Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-26

MR MORUDU: Nothing of that sort.

ADV DU PLESSIS: So the people at your school were totally disinterested in those kind of things?

MR MORUDU: We were only dealing with student matters at school.

ADV DU PLESSIS: And this Mamelodi Students Congress that you belonged to, what was that council's 
function?

MR MORUDU: It was to coordinate all schools so that if there is a common demand so that it can be 
raised at a highest level.

ADV DU PLESSIS: What issues were specifically discussed by you?

MR MORUDU: Common issues like stationery, books, free stationery book and corporal punishment, we 
took those as common in all our schools.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was this the only representative body of 
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 186

S MORUDU: school students in Mamelodi at the time?

MR MORUDU: That is correct.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was the presence of the South African Defence Force in the townships ever 
discussed by that council?

MR MORUDU: I can't remember that one.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was the UDF ever discussed at that council?

MR MORUDU: No.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Never?

MR MORUDU: Never.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was anything pertaining to these marches you were involved in discussed at that 
council?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: What was exactly discussed?

MR MORUDU: I am going to repeat that thing again. We were discussing things like - which were 
common to all the schools - the nature of the things we were discussing about like stationery, books and so 
forth as I have already said.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was the ANC and riot - acts that happened during riots, burning of vehicles, other 
school boycotts etc was that not discussed at those meetings of that council?

MR MORUDU: No, they were not discussed, but only school matters were discussed at that forum.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Did you belong to any other organisations?

MR MORUDU: No.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Now, Mr Morudu, that organisation, the Mamelodi Students Council, did that 
students council belong to any other organisations?

MR MORUDU: No, we were not affiliated with any other organisations.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Morudu, I put to you that the Mamelodi 
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 187

S MORUDU: Students Council was affiliated to COSAS - the Council of South African Students.

MR MORUDU: COSAS was banned at that time and we were not affiliated to it.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Do you deny what I am putting to you?

MR MORUDU: Yes, I deny it because COSAS was banned at that time.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was what?

MR MORUDU: Banned.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Did you know anything of COSAS at that time?

MR MORUDU: Yes, I knew that COSAS was banned in 1985 - that is what I knew.

ADV DU PLESSIS: So Mr Morudu, do I understand your evidence correct, you were simply not involved 
in politics at all?

MR MORUDU: I don't know if you are going to put it as student politics or what?

ADV DU PLESSIS: No, I am talking of normal politics, not student politics, normal politics, ANC, UDF, 
apartheid whatever the issues were at that time?

MR MORUDU: Not at that time.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You were not concerned with those issues?

MR MORUDU: Not at that time, yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Not at that time.

MR MORUDU: Yes

ADV DU PLESSIS: Even though you were one of the ten student leaders in Mamelodi?

MR MORUDU: Yes, where I was concerned with student matters at the time.

ADV DU PLESSIS: And, do I understand you correctly the other people involved on this Mamelodi 
Students Council, in 
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 188

S MORUDU: respect of the council they were also not involved in politics at all?

MR MORUDU: I can't answer that one because I don't know after school I was (...indistinct) where their 
position in the townships.

ADV DU PLESSIS: So, Mr Morudu, please then explain to us, why did four security policemen then 
decide to interrogate you?

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman, how is the witness supposed to explain why security police interrogated 
him?

UNKNOWN: He can say so. Yes, do you know why?

MR MORUDU: I don't know why they arrested me and I can only think that it was because of my student 
leadership position.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Did they know you when they arrested you?

MR MORUDU: I don't know if they knew me at that time.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Did you know Hendrik Bokaba?

MR MORUDU: I didn't know him, I knew him after my arrest.

ADV DU PLESSIS: When they arrested you did they call you on your name or not?

MR MORUDU: No. They didn't call me on my name, they only fired a shot and the guy whom I was with 
ran away and I was accosted there.

ADV DU PLESSIS: So, they might have accosted anybody else there in Mamelodi on that day, is that 
what you are saying to us?

MR MORUDU: But according to what van Vuuren said yesterday, no.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, no, I am trying to find out from you,  I am trying to find out in the light of your 
evidence now before this Committee for what reason on earth Mr Morudu would four security policemen 
accost you in Mamelodi?
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 189

JUDGE WILSON: Hasn't he answered that question when he said "I think it was because of my student 
leadership position"?

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, Mr Chairman, he did answer it in that way....(tape ends) ...to arrest would you 
say arrest you because you were a student leader, why?

MR MORUDU: I can't think of a reason now why they wanted to arrest me because of my position.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Because, Mr Morudu, you weren't involved in politics, so I have difficulty in 
understanding, even if you were a student leader if you were not involved in politics, why the security 
police would have been interested in you.

MR MORUDU: As I have already said, I can't know, maybe they got some information somewhere about 
me, so I can't know their reasons for it.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, Mr Morudu, you heard the information which they have given and the evidence 
which they have given before this Committee in respect of your involvement in student activities, school 
boycotts and I can read from the application itself, "your involvement with petrol bombs, intimidation and 
attacks on policemen's houses and your general involvement in politics".

MR MORUDU: They could have heard that about the petrol bombings, but I was never involved in any 
violent acts as I have already said.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Morudu, could you perhaps assist us, you were 23 years of age at that stage?

MR MORUDU: No, I was around 16 or 17 at that stage.

ADV DE JAGER: Weren't you born in 1963?

MR MORUDU: No. 1969 - 6 June.

ADV DE JAGER: '69.

MR MORUDU: Yes.
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 190

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry. Thank you for that, born in 1969.  And as deputy chairperson of the whole 
Mamelodi Congress, Students Congress, I presume you helped to organise the marches?

MR MORUDU: Yes, we organised the marches, some of the marches.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you walk at the front of the marches?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you, the people carry placards or slogans?

MR MORUDU: Yes, placards were carried with our demands written on those boards.

ADV DE JAGER: Can you remember what those placards and slogans were?

MR MORUDU: It was things like "Away with corporal Punishment" and the "Demand for free 
Stationery" and so on. I can't remember some of them very well now.

ADV DE JAGER: Weren't there even - nobody objected to apartheid at that stage - "Away with 
Apartheid" for instance?

MR MORUDU: I can't remember everything which was written on those boxes.

ADV DE JAGER: Now when you were asked to be an informer, what did they tell you, what should you 
inform them about?

MR MORUDU: About our meetings.

ADV DE JAGER: And did they pay you for the information sometimes that you have given them?

MR MORUDU: That is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: What sort of information did they pay you for?

MR MORUDU: Like things which we said at the meetings and so PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 191

S MORUDU: forth.