Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

CHAIRPERSON: Are you both going to take the oath. What is the name of the person sitting next to you?

MRS SOYA: The name is Monwabisi Soya.

CHAIRPERSON: Could Nothandekile Soya stand.

IVY NOTHANDEKILE SOYA: (Sworn duly states).

CHAIRPERSON: The next Monwabisi should take the oath.

MONWABISI SOYA: (Sworn duly states).

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Ivy Nothandekile Soya we welcome you to this Commission and we thank you for coming forward to give us the story about Msokoli Seuntjie and also how he died.
 We are therefore going to hand you over to Ntsikelelo Sandi who is going to lead you by questioning you.

MR SANDI: Let me greet you first Mrs Soya. According to what I see on the statement here in front of me you have asked that you should talk to this Commission about your son, named Msokoli Seuntjie Soya who was shot dead. Is it like that.

MRS SOYA: Yes, it is like that.

MR SANDI: Your son sitting next to you, who is Monwabisi, he is going to explain and tell us as an eye witness. Is it like that?

MRS SOYA: Yes, it is like that.

MR SANDI: Let's start from 23rd July 1985. You mentioned in your statement that you were at work on that day and you got a telephone call. Could you therefore tell us who was the caller and what was the news that he was telling to you and you could continue with your story.

MRS SOYA: Should I start with the day of the 23rd or 25th?

MR SANDI: Start with the day of the 23rd because the most important day is the 25th.

MRS SOYA: On the 23rd, on a Tuesday, I received a telephone call and I was at work and my neighbour was the caller. He was telling me that there was a tense situation in the township and I was disturbed.
 I was to go off duty at 6.00pm. So what happened is I asked for time off from my employer and I was denied that. They asked me what for, I told them, but they still refused and then I took a decision to go without permission before 6.00pm.

MR SANDI: At the time you were asking from your employer to be released, to go to your place, did you explain to him why you wanted time off from work?

MRS SOYA: Yes, I did. I told him that children were being shot at the location and even other people too from the location came with that information and they were telling a lot of things that were happening there.
 They could not even get transport because of all these disruptions, but my employers refused.

MR SANDI: So, even if they did not allow you to go and look after your children, you decided to leave on your own?

MRS SOYA: Yes, it is like that.

MR SANDI: When you got home, what was happening?

MRS SOYA: I found my children on their feet and they said they were coming from the Soweto Forest. They looked dirty and dusty, so I asked them what was actually happening and they said police were shooting at them together with the soldiers. I was scared because the very policemen and soldiers were patrolling because my house was facing the cemetery.
 I gave them money and asked them to leave to Despatch, to go and live with their grandmother.

MR SANDI: Was it the late together with Monwabisi?

MRS SOYA: Yes, it was.

MR SANDI: Then what did you hear, what happened in Despatch.

MRS SOYA: On Thursday on the 25th, whilst I was at work at about 2.00pm, as I was going to the neighbours there at work, a cousin of mine came into me in the company of a certain child related to us and they had come to call me and I left my neighbours and went to where I work. I saw them standing there outside but they wouldn't talk to me, instead they cried and later on they told me that it seemed as if they had got a call from Despatch stating that some children together with my child had been shot, but they could not tell exactly what had actually happened.
 I could not bear this and they again confirmed that my son had been shot in the stomach. I did not believe this. I even thought that perhaps he might be dead.
 I then saw a car driving towards me . . .
(break in . . . . )

CHAIRPERSON: Since I can see that this is very disturbing to me, I don't know whether you would allow Monwabisi to take over whilst you get time to recollect yourself?

MR SANDI: Monwabisi, in your statement which is here in front, could you explain what actually happened in Despatch?

MONWABISI: Yes, I could. What happened on the 25th is that the late Msokoli was intending to go back to Port Elizabeth.
 I was in Unit 3, 3rd Avenue, with my friends then he came to tell me that he was leaving for Port Elizabeth and I had to take him as far as the Taxi Rank.
 I accompanied him to go and collect his clothes from the 2nd Unit. When we got there we found a neighbour who was about a year older than my brother, they were standing within a certain yard next to the gate.
 Then there was a group of soldiers who came. One of my aunts asked them not to run away.

MR SANDI: What time was this, was it late?

MONWABISI: No, it was at about 11.00 in the morning. It was 11 'o clock in the morning.

MR SANDI: Go on.

MONWABISI: So these soldiers came and they got off the hippos and they advanced towards my brother and the companion, they grabbed him and he tried to release himself and he managed and ran and jumped over to a house there behind.

MR SANDI: Now, when you say these soldiers advanced to them. Now you mean, they just chased them?

MONWABISI: Yes. They chased them and they grabbed the two of them, but my brother managed to release himself, they chased him still and he jumped over a fence and got into the 3rd Avenue.
 They shot him and he fell. At the time they were shooting, I just heard a loud sound but I was scared for my life, so I could not come out of the house.
 An ambulance came at about 12 'o clock and the police and the soldiers turned back, and time went on until at about 3 'o clock there was an ambulance for the soldiers that came. The soldiers did not want any observers, even family members to look at the incident.

MR SANDI: At the time the soldiers were turning back the ambulance, where was Msokoli's body?

MONWABISI: It was there at the back where he had fallen.

MR SANDI: Now you say they shot him at about 11 am.

MONWABISI: Yes.

MR SANDI: Now, you say at the time the body was still there. Then what happened to his body?

MONWABISI: The ambulance that belonged to the soldiers took his body and I don't know where to. That was the last I saw of him.

MR SANDI: Is that all you have to say Monwabisi?

MONWABISI: Yes. That is as far as I can go.

MR SANDI: Now, let me ask you, at the time the soldiers were chasing Msokoli and the friend. Did he perhaps say anything?

MONWABISI: You mean the soldiers? They did not say anything. What I just heard the soldiers saying was that "shoot him dead", they were saying this in Afrikaans. Now, I don't know exactly why they shot him because they had not done anything, they were just standing.

MR SANDI: Thank you Monwabisi.

MR SANDI: Mrs Soya, I don't know whether I can come back to you at this point. Are you ready? By being here Mrs Soya, when we conclude we would say what would be your request to this Commission, since we have got the whole story?

MRS SOYA: My request to the Commission is that it should investigate who my son's killers were and find out what was their reason for that. What had he actually done to them to deserve the death or loss of life.
 I want to know their names.

MR SANDI: Is that all you would like this Commission to help you with? In your statement, Mrs Soya, you have made mention of your health that it was affected by this incident. Now can you recall this?

MRS SOYA: Yes, I can.

MR SANDI: Now, could you refer to it?