Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-05-25

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Yes, that's right, the two boys that worked on the truck would decanter the milk, they would come with the left-overs of the milk, you know, in two litres, five litres or sometimes 25 litres, they would give the empty litre container to John, he would decanter, from there he would hand it to Dodo, Dodo would find the owner of the container, and then Mike would, if Done was not with him, he would keep the money in his pocket, but if we were there, Done or I was there, we would sit on the left-hand side of the truck and give the change or collect the money.

MR PRIOR: And you indicated it was a three ton truck and we've seen a photograph of the truck, I think it was put up in the bundle B.   If the vehicle was standing, for example if the person was standing on the outside, on the road surface, could one see easily into the interior of the vehicle?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: No, it was high up.

MR PRIOR: And I see on the vehicle there was a step.   Did one have to actually jump onto that step and use that step to actually get into the vehicle?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: That's right, you'd have to get onto that step.

MR PRIOR: Did you ever see the truck again after the incident?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Yes, the truck was brought back to me by the police.

MR PRIOR: Are you able to remember, I apologise for asking this to you, I should have asked it from the policeman but it slipped my mind, did you notice whether there was any blood in the vehicle when it was brought back?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: They said there was blood, but they cleaned it in Umtata... (intervention).

MR PRIOR: I see.

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: ...before they brought it back.

MR PRIOR: So you never saw any blood?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: I never saw any blood.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: How long do you think you'll be?

MR MBANDAZAYA: Mr Chairman, I don't think I'll be more than five minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: Well should we continue, rather than take the adjournment?

MR MBANDAZAYA: I think so, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue and allow Mrs Meyers to finish her evidence.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.   Mrs Meyer, accept my sympathy for the tragic loss of your husband and your daughter... (intervention).

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYA: ...on the (indistinct).   There's one point I want to get to, are you used to his gun, did you ever use his gun, your husband's gun?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Are you asking me if I shot with it?

MR MBANDAZAYA: Well, let me rephrase it, whether you were more familiar with it, in handling it, even if you are not shooting it?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Yes, I saw it every day when he would, at night when he would come back, he would bring his gun out of the truck and put it next to his bed, and in the morning he would take it with him, I saw it.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Do you know whether he had any other gun, except that one?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: He had other guns at the farm, yes, big long ones, but it was only one small gun.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Small gun?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Hmm.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Now... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: I think it should be recorded that the number in the firearm accords with the number in the licence issued to Mr Meyers.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.   Now, you have heard the evidence, Mrs Meyer, from the applicants, where they said, regarding the whole incident, and why they did it.  Now my question to you will be, how do you feel now that you have heard them, not necessarily that you agree what they are saying, what they did, how is your feeling now?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Towards what?

MR MBANDAZAYA: Towards them and to what they did.

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: I feel very sorry that they killed my family, I feel very sorry that my family were killed, I'm sorry that they did it, they attacked them, I feel undeservedly, they were helping the people of Transkei by taking fresh milk down to them, they were not, my husband or my daughter or I are not oppressors of black people.   You've heard that my husband worked with the black people for 20 years, he liked to work with them, so he was doing them a favour, he was actually asked by some people in the Transkei to bring the milk.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Yes, I've heard that Mrs Meyers, and I don't dispute it, and nobody disputes that, but my point is that now towards the applicant, how is your feeling, after what they have done to your daughter and your husband?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Well, you see, I think my feeling to them is irrelevant, because nothing will bring my daughter and my husband back to me.   They have done what they did and so what can I say?   I'm just very sorry that they did it.

MR MBANDAZAYA: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

MS GCABASHE: On a point of clarity, Mrs Meyers, are you saying that in that week and in the previous week, Done accompanied her father on the milk round?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: No, it was quite a few weeks that Done didn't go.   Of the week of the accident she went with him on the Wednesday, because he had hurt his foot on the Wednesday, and when he came back, he was limping, on the Tuesday, sorry on the Tuesday, when he came back he was limping, and Done went with him on the Wednesday, on the Thursday and on the Friday.

MS GCABASHE: Thank you and then the second question is a slightly different one, your husband always carried his firearm with him when he went on the milk round?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: There were some times that he would forget it at home, but when he carried it, he usually carried it in the safe, just in case there was a roadblock.

MS GCABASHE: And where exactly was this safe?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: It was between the seats of the truck.

MS GCABASHE: To his left if he was sitting in the driver's seat?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: To the driver's - on the left, that's correct.

MS GCABASHE: And the cubby-hole is left but forward, it's not where the cubby-hole is at all?

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Yes.   You see there was the driver's seat and two other seats, so the cubby-hole was quite a distance from the driver.

MS GCABASHE: Thank you, thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR BOTHMA: No questions, Mr Chair, I thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR BOTHMA

CHAIRPERSON: I would like counsel's views as to whether they think that that letter should be handed in as an exhibit?   We have had it read out, it has been recorded, and I think Mrs Meyers would rather keep it.

MR BOTHMA: I believe so, Mr Chairman, she can just rather keep it and then we've got... (intervention).

MR PRIOR: I agree, Mr Chairman, thank you.

MR SANDI: I also agree, Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You may keep the letter.

PAMELA MYRTLE MEYERS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you for (indistinct).
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take the adjournment now till two o'clock.   When I say that, I hope I mean it, it depends whether the police will have arrived with the other witnesses by then.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS