Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-06

CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  As I explained to the Regional Chairman of the ANC here yesterday, these hearings are for victims like yourself and like the many other people that you have heard, to give their own personal accounts of how they suffered and we have made a decision, the Commission as a whole, not to allow political parties to come to these victims hearings, but certainly if the ANC and other parties which will be invited if they wish to make submissions on a regional basis, we can, after discussion with the rest of our colleagues, set aside a day on which you can make those submissions.  So you are welcome to do that.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: ANC, as well as the other parties have already made submissions nationally and all were made in Cape Town, but we have not yet reached a situation where they have been made regionally.  All the political parties met in Cape Town.  We wish this could be done on a regional basis.  We also have a 7-day meeting.  This is not for individuals but it's for different political groups, Inkatha, ANC, so that they may come forward as the organization.  We also hope that this will also reach the stage where we can do it on a regional basis, because that helps, because it makes people be under a certain region, so that you can sit together as people of that particular region.  Some other people grew up together but they parted ways because of their different beliefs or because of being coerced to join certain political organizations in favour of  ... [break in recording].
 Please don't spoil your record.  You've been the most well-behaved audience.  We shall go to lunch.  It's five past two now.  If we could come back at twenty-five to three.  We should take a 30-minute lunch break.  Please do not forget - let me just remind you we shall all stand up so that the victims may go out first and after the last witness we may, as well, go out.  We thank you.
LONG ADJOURNMENT
5A/0 ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon.  Thank you for coming to tell us your story, which relates to the terrible massacre at Gobandhlovu.  Before you tell that story, can you please stand up to take the oath?

BABEKHILE SHANDU: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Dr Mgojo will help you now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Good afternoon, Babekhile.  Firstly, there are many people that you have come here on behalf of.  Are they your relatives?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are my relatives.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you have a family left behind?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have children.  I have three.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What are their names?

WITNESS:   Sibusiso Shandu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How old is he?

WITNESS:   He's 15 years old.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is he attending school?

WITNESS:   No, he isn't.

KHOZA MGOJO:  When did he leave school?

WITNESS:   He was in standard 3 when he left school.

KHOZA MGOJO:  The second-born?

WITNESS:   She is Nokothula.  Nokothula is 13 years old.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is she attending school?

WITNESS:   Yes, she's in standard 1.  The third one is Sifiso.  Sifiso is 2 years old.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is their father?

WITNESS:   Their father is not present.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You have parted?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are you working?

WITNESS:   I am not working.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How do you maintain your children?

WITNESS:   I hold piece jobs.  I left school when I was doing standard 6.

KHOZA MGOJO:  If you could be offered a chance to go back to school, would you appreciate that?

WITNESS:   No, I would like to work, because I have children.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is your mother still alive?

WITNESS:   No, as well as my father and I don't have any brothers.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You have come to speak on behalf of Joyce Gumede.  Does she have children?  She is the one who died.

WITNESS:   Yes.  She had children.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How many children did she have?

WITNESS:   She had seven children.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they all at school?

WITNESS:   Only one of them is attending school.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they working or not?

WITNESS:   Four of them died and three were left.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Were they ill?

WITNESS:   No, they died with Joyce.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How old are these remaining three?

WITNESS:   The eldest one was taken by its father and the other two are staying with me.  One is attending school and the other one is still very young.  The other one is doing sub-standard B.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You said three were left?

WITNESS:   That is correct.  The other one is not at school.  She is 4 years old.  There is one who is in sub-standard B and the other one 4 years old and not at school.  Then there's the eldest one  who was taken by his father.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How related are you with the Gumede family?

WITNESS:   Joyce was my sister.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Before the attack where were you resident?

WITNESS:   At Gobandhlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is Gobandhlovu?

WITNESS:   It's in Empangeni.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You are also staying in Gobandhlovu?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did you belong to any political party?

WITNESS:   Those who died were IFP members, but I was not active in politics.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is Joyce's husband?

WITNESS:   He died.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did he die during the violence?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And who is Nomusa Mncube?

WITNESS:   It's my sister's child.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, you've come to testify on behalf of Joyce Gumede, your sister, as well as your brother-in-law, Jameson Gumede and Nomusa Mncube, Joyce's child, Gugu, Sindisiwe and Thokosani, as well as Thabile, your sister's children.  What was happening in your area that led to the attack that resulted in your sister's death?

WITNESS:   Inkatha was patrolling over the week-end.  Inkatha used to patrol in the afternoon, Friday, Saturday, as well as Sunday.  They used to patrol the area and there was this boy, Tholithemba.  He used to stay at home whenever there was a patrol going on and they started burning my sister's house and asked to why Tholithemba didn't participate in the patrol.  Tholithemba is the eldest one.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Was it the Inkatha members who said that he was not patrolling?

WITNESS:   That is correct. What does, "Patrolling" mean?  What was being done?   ---   They used to go around the area, singing Inkatha songs, as well as Inkatha war cries.  Then on a Sunday they would convene some meetings at the local school.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Was everybody forced to be there?

WITNESS:   Yes, everybody was forced to attend those meetings.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you know who was the leader of this Inkatha?

WITNESS:   It was Mathabela and Bheki.  Mathabela was the surname, but I do not know his name.  The other one was Bheki and the surname was Ndlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they still resident in the same area?

WITNESS:   No, they have since moved from Gobandhlovu.  They went to stay at Nseleni.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Why did they leave Gobandhlovu?

WITNESS:   They burnt my brother-in-law's house, Jameson Gumede, because they said his son did not want to accompany them during the patrol.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, what did he say when they burnt his house?

WITNESS:   He sent a message for them to be called over.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Who did he send?

WITNESS:   He sent Tholithemba.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did they come?

WITNESS:   Yes, they came along.  Just when he was trying to ask what was happening, Mathabela was having a gun.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What did Mathabela say?

WITNESS:   My brother-in-law asked him as to why he was carrying the gun and when they tried to grab Mathabela, he ran away.  He was together with Bheki Ndlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What happened next?

WITNESS:   They went away.  They went to stay at Nseleni, all the Inkatha members who were from Gobandhlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Why did they move?

WITNESS:   They moved because Mathabela had burnt my brother-in-law's house, and they decided to escape.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did all his friends go with him?