Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-28

FERDINAND BARNARD: Mr Chairperson, yes, for example after the Athlone bomb was planted and the incident took place, I discussed this with Calla Botha because then I became aware through a discussion with van Zyl, that Mr Botha was also involved in it.  He did not tell me that himself, I do not know if I did not see him during that time, because we had different things to do and our movements were different, but at a certain opportunity I heard a story from van Zyl concerning the Athlone bomb and I took it up with Mr Botha and he had no problem in admitting that he was involved in it, because he is an explosives expert.
	He did however, deny very strongly and said that what Mr van Zyl told me, and I will put it in his words, "is a load of shit".  He said it was not the truth.   He said that person is very arrogant, he personally worked with the explosives, there were no nails placed around it, he personally inspected the bomb, he is an explosives expert and he made a comment saying "you know, I do not even know why Slang involved me in it", it was placed on ice and he said "a chimpanzee can be taught to press that button".  That is what he said to me.
	I asked him out about it, and he said under no circumstances, or the order came from Gen Webb for the planting of the bomb, but the instructions were not to kill or injure anybody.  That is why they had to make use of a remote control so that they could detonate the bomb once the people had left the building.
	That made me doubt many things, because then I did not know why van Zyl gave his version of the story.  The same with the "Apie Project".  I also discussed it with Mr Botha and then I told him about the Five Phase plan.  Mr Botha came to me and said that that was not what Slang van Zyl told him.  Slang van Zyl told him that they are going to give him this baboon to hang up and he had no idea why he had to do it.  "It looked like just fucking around", that is what he said.  He did not know why he was hanging this thing up, and that is how he conveyed it to me.
	He was quite upset about it that Mr van Zyl conveyed it in such a way to me.

MR COETZEE: Were there other aspects that you discussed concerning other projects, that you discussed with each other?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I cannot specifically recall, but I assume so.  I discussed more or less everything with Calla Botha, we even exchanged sources and where I could assist him, I did, and if I had a problem, I knew that his door was always open and I could go to him.

MR COETZEE: The same bond that was between you and Botha, was it a similar bond that was between you and Mr van Zyl?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No.  It was not a similar bond, but we were friends and I did like him.  We could relate to each other, we had good discussions.  I had respect for his investigative abilities and from the private environment and also from Brixton, I even visited his house.  Also in the business world in which he was active, a large jewellery business, I was invited to parties and Christmas parties of these people, so we did interact on a social level.
	We also worked closely together in the investigative environment.  He could provide me with certain investigations and he was also a very experienced investigating officer.  He would then involve me.

MR COETZEE: Mr Barnard, then we can move to the recruitment of Donald Aitchison.  Can you just explain to this Committee how it happened and when did it happen that you recruited Donald  Aitchison?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Mr Chairperson, I cannot specifically recall a time, but I think it was approximately in April 1989, because I was at that stage involved in the Webster case and the task had already been issued.  It happened spontaneously actually.
	Det-Sgt William Knox was a very good policeman and I had a lot of respect for him, and I still have today have a lot of respect for him.  He was the person who taught me certain things after I left the Police College.  He resigned from the Police Force and he established a private company, one of these armed response companies.  He's got a very strong company today.  He had offices in Troyville and every time when I was in the area of Hillbrow, I contacted him and go and visit him, and we discussed certain things.
	That specific time, he was still attached to the police, but he was already in the phase of leaving the Police Force, he had this side-line business.  When I went to go and see him at his offices, he told me that he was aware that I functioned in some intelligence unit, and he told me he was still finalising certain dockets  and there was an Irish person, Donald Aitchison, who he arrested and he asked me if I did not want to use him because he's got a foreign passport.  I have told Knox on a previous opportunity, I told him that I was looking for people with a foreign passport, somebody who was awake.  He knew what I was looking for.
	He then told me about this Irish person, Aitchison.  I asked him what was the charges against him, and he said theft, he stole shoes from the OK Bazaars.  Then I told him "how are you going to get this guy out" and he said he is on bail but he can speak to the people from the OK Bazaars and they may withdraw the charges.  He then did this.  I provided him money to pay for the shoes and they apologised and then he told the manager of the OK Bazaars that Aitchison is not quite sane, he does things that he does not know about, in other words he's got a mental knock.  Then they felt sorry for him and they withdrew the case.
	I went to go and meet him at the Bedford Centre, under an alias.  I told, I asked him if he was willing, or I was working for a consortium, and I used that same cover.  From the second meeting, Aitchison kept on going about this Z-Squad.  Where he heard this, I do not know.  I didn't even know about the Z-Squad.
	Later I heard, I read in newspaper articles, I think it was the former Bureau of State Security under Jan Hendrik van der Berg, that there existed a Z-Squad and they referred to a certain unit of the CCB as the Z-Squad.  I discouraged him, but he kept on going on.  I kept on talking about the business and eventually I asked him to give me a background report about what his background consisted of.  I got that from him, and in the meantime I made contact with Calla Botha.   If I can recall correctly, he was on ice or something, or he was told to lay low.  I provided him with the background of Aitchison, how I got to meet him.  I gave him all this information, I gave him the written document of what Aitchison wrote and on this page, I told him "give yourself any name", I did not mean James Bond, and he called himself "The Cleaner".  I then gave it to Mr Botha.  Mr Botha put it into the system.  I do not know whom he gave it to.
	At a later stage I made certain enquiries.  Mr Botha told me  that the people in the CCB told him that Aitchison cannot be used, and that he must not be used.  That is the last time that I heard about it.

MR COETZEE: Did you have any further contact with Donald Aitchison?