Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:  They just sent the statements and telling us they will put a claim against the State on our behalf.  Those were the lawyers from the Legal Resources Centre.

MRS GCABASHE: I discovered that you and your daughter concur that at the time your son was killed he was with his four friends.  After these four friends saw that he was injured they shouted at him, but we haven't got the names of his friends.  Do you still remember the friends?

WITNESS:   Yes, my daughter knows them.

MRS GCABASHE: Can you please give us the names.

WITNESS:   One of them is Nicholas Ntuli and the other is Mposho, who passed away ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 1)

MRS GCABASHE: Is he still staying at Hammarsdale?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MRS GCABASHE: If ever we would like to contact him we can find him?  Do you know where he stays?

WITNESS:   Yes, we know.

MRS GCABASHE: Where does he stay?

WITNESS:   He stays at Unit Four.  He used to work with my brother at the place called Saints(?).

MRS GCABASHE: Which means we can be able to contact him from that place?

WITNESS:   Yes.  The other one who passed away is the one who accompanied us to the police station to give a statement.

MRS GCABASHE: That's Mposho Ngcobo?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MRS GCABASHE: How did he die?

WITNESS:   He was shot and killed.

MRS GCABASHE: You also mentioned one of the constables who were holding pump guns.  You mentioned the name of Stanley. Where does he stay?

WITNESS:   He used to stay at Unit Four.  They moved out, but I don't know where they are at the moment.  Their house had been burnt and they had to move out.  The special constables were mentioned at the police station when we were giving a statement by Mposho.

MRS GCABASHE: Does it mean that we can get the record from the police station?

WITNESS:   Yes, Mposho used to know their names, and I could remember one of Gcina Mkhize.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you.

MRS GCABASHE: I would like to ask you a short question.  I just want to ask you about your health as a family as you have gone through such harassment.  Have you ever been - have you ever tried to contact some health institution to find out if ever there's anything that can help you?

WITNESS:   Yes, we were badly affected.  I have got so many problems with my health.  I have bone sickness, high blood pressure, and I normally go to clinics.  My biggest problem is that my son's eldest son is mentally disturbed.  Even at school they are complaining that he sometimes acts funny.

MRS GCABASHE: How old was he when his father died?

WITNESS:   He was about six years old.

MRS GCABASHE: At school when they told you that he was acting funny what did they mean by that?

WITNESS:   She is the one who is residing with the child.

MRS GCABASHE: /MS NDWANDWE

ZAMA NDWANDWE: Do I have to be sworn in?

ZAMA NDWANDWE: (Sworn, States)

ZAMA NDWANDWE: Thank you.

WITNESS:   I will try to relate about the incidents at school.  He stays with me, and I am staying at 'Maritzburg and he is schooling at Scottsville.  And most of these reports they normally send them to me about these problems.  They used to call me to school, and the last time they called me was this year.  The principal had to call my place of work to tell me that I have to come to school.  His class teacher called me and he asked me to explain about Andile's life, because they are thinking that there's something wrong in his mind.  I told them this is my brother's son who died - his father died long ago.  He came to my place at the age he was six months old, and he grew up at my place.  And we think maybe he has been affected by the death of his father.  The things that they tell you at school you can't believe that he can do them.

ZAMA NDWANDWE: Maybe you can help us.  Which are those things?

WITNESS:   They are taught by white people at school.  At one day we were told that he told that he was going to beat his teacher.  When he doesn't want to learn, while the others are still concentrating he will stand up and collect all the rulers in the class and throw them away, so that all the people can pay attention to him.  Sometimes while the teacher is reading if he doesn't want to read he just don't read.  They wanted to know what is the problem.  I just told them he came to my place while he was still young, and he suggested I must take him to his mother, but I tell him he came to me while he was still young, I don't see why we have to take him to his mother.

ZAMA NDWANDWE: It seems clear that the child has been mentally harassed, and we wish to work in consultation with you, together with psychologists and social workers from the Truth Commission, to find out if there's any help that we can give this child.  Thank you.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... story today.  The period that you have told us about, 1998 in Mpumalanga township, November 1988, was a very turbulent period in that township's history, and it has been quite well documented by people who were there at the time, journalists and other people, and from the information available it seems that there were large scale attacks on the township from rural areas near Mpumalanga known as Woody Glen and Inkandla, across the valley from the formal township, and that there were attacks by armed groups of men who were members of Inkatha on Mpumalanga township, and that during those attacks those people were assisted, and sometimes even transported, by members of the South African Police.  That evidence has been given before in court cases, and the role of the special constables during that period is also very notorious, and your son and your brother was a victim of those special constables.

MR LYSTER: You have lost a loved one, like many, many other people who have given evidence before this Commission, and you have also lost a breadwinner, because you told us that as well as supporting his own two children he was also assisting to support you, and we extend our deep sympathy to you. You have probably heard me say this morning that we don't have power to assist you directly, but we will be making recommendations to the President and to the Government as to how people like you should be assisted in the future with regard to assistance with counselling, and with the young children.  As my colleague, Dr Magwaza, has said, that is probably something that we can assist with in the immediate future, but with regard to compensation or anything like that with regard to the loss of your son and your brother, that is something that we will be making recommendations to the Government about.

MR LYSTER: So we thank you very, very much for coming in today and having the courage to tell us your story, and we wish you strength as you leave us.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: MZWAKHE NGCOBO

MR LYSTER: Good day, Mzwakhe.  Can you hear me?  We appreciate your presence.  Can you please give us your family background just to acquaint us with yourself.

WITNESS:   My father passed in 1987.  I am staying with my uncle and my grandmother.

MR LYSTER: Where is your mother?

WITNESS:   My mother is around but she doesn't stay with us.  I stay with my uncle and my grandmother.  My elder brother is in Jo'burg, and my elder sister is married.

MR LYSTER: Do you have a child?

WITNESS:   I have two children, and now the third one my wife is about to deliver.  She might deliver today.

MR LYSTER: So you have three children?

WITNESS:   I might say so, yes.

MR LYSTER: Are they staying with you?

WITNESS:   One of them is staying with her mother, and the other one stays with me because her mother passed away.

MR LYSTER: Can you please tell us more about yourself.  Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working.

MR LYSTER: Are you studying?

WITNESS:   I do some panel beating and spraypainting.