Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-30

CHAIRPERSON: What is your position if they shot at Chris who was behind you in rapid succession and one of the bullets passed him and hit you, by the time you turned around he had fallen.

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I think if you had had a glimpse of the photographs of the scene of the crime you would understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't answer the question like that now, we're not fighting.  I'm asking you whether you can discount the scene I described to you, that you are running, Chris is running virtually in the same direction, as you testified, the target is Chris.  They're not only going to shoot him once, they shoot at him a few times.
	One of the bullets pass him and hit you because you're in front in the general direction of the bullet, can you discount that kind of scene?  Because that is what Gushu said.  It could be that one of the bullets had passed Ngwenya, struck you?  Do you say that can't be true?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I understand Chairperson, but I'm not sure, I don't understand.

CHAIRPERSON: No, you can't understand and not understand.  If you don't understand then I must repeat it.
	You say you ran away in a particular direction, do you understand that?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Yes, I do understand.

CHAIRPERSON: You say when you started to run away Chris ran in the same direction as you were running because you two ran together or started running together, correct?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: But at some time you were in front of Chris with this pot, correct?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now if Chris was their target to be shot and they didn't shoot him only with one shot, they directed a number of shots towards him and one of those shots missed Chris, is it not possible that that shot could have hit you because you were in the general line of fire but in front of Chris?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I do understand, I've now answered.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you discount that scene or would you concede it is a possibility?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Yes, I would say that was possible.

MR PATEL: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Miss Nkambule, how many times was your sister shot?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I have already explained that I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, I was just going to ask that, she answered that question.

MR PATEL: As it pleases you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] record of a post-mortem?

MR PATEL: None that has been put before us except in the Investigation Diary which was part of the other bundle of documents.

CHAIRPERSON: What does it say?

MR PATEL: It's Point 7 on the SAP 5 Investigation Diary, that Lindiwe ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: What page is that?

MR PATEL: It's not part of this bundle that has been given but it's part of those documents that were given to us on the second day.

CHAIRPERSON: Well we didn't get that but anyway what did it say there?

MR PATEL: It says that Lindiwe Nkosi was found by Papa Nbokane, 636 Manana Street and Bafana Umkhumalo of 799 Malaza Street.  She was lying on her stomach with a chest wound.

CHAIRPERSON: A chest wound?

MR PATEL: Shot to the front.

CHAIRPERSON: Well is that going to be a thing that's common cause?  It's the closes I think we've come to an injury to the deceased.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I cannot really say it's common cause, I cannot deny it but I cannot say it's common cause.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] document is it?  Who produced that document?

MR HATTINGH: The document that is being referred to is the Investigating Officer's diary.

CHAIRPERSON: Who produced that document to this hearing?

MR HATTINGH: The Evidence Leader.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay.  But you say you cannot deny it also?

MR HATTINGH: No, we don't have the benefit of the post-mortem so we don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Patel, is there anything more?

MR PATEL: One last question Mr Chairman.
	You will concede, Miss Nkambule, that this event was traumatic for you and that you would have been confused and shocked with regard to the events surrounding it?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

MR PATEL: I have no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] questions?
	Yes, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, pertaining to this incident I would just like to refer you to page 13 and 14 of this new bundle, Exhibit B, the statement of Pindi Mary Jane Yende, in particular paragraphs 3 and 4 thereof where it also deals with this incident, that is the lady at the shop where the previous witness ran into.  We're not calling this witness but we're just making it available to the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Have we got one more witness left?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, one of the witnesses was not here this morning but she apparently arrived in the meantime, Sonto Gertrude Nkosi, the mother of Obed and  she will be the next witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Is she going to testify on the merits Mr
Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, no, she is not going to testify on merits.  The only thing that she will tell this Committee is that she did visit her son that evening in the hospital and she will tell us what wounds he had a the time and that the next day she was advised that he was killed in hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Nkosi, what language would you like to speak?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: siZulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any objections to the taking of the oath?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes, I have a problem.

CHAIRPERSON: What problem?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I will take the oath.

CHAIRPERSON: Please stand.

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mrs Nkosi, is it correct that Obed Nhlabathi was your son?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes, that is correct.

MR HATTINGH: At the time of his death, how old was he then?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: He was 17 years old.

MR HATTINGH: Can we take it that he did not have any dependants at the time of his death?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: No, he didn't have children.

MR HATTINGH: Is your husband still alive?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes, he is still alive.

MR HATTINGH: What I first would just like to clarify is that although you are a victim of this particular incident where your son died, is it necessary for your particulars to be entered and referred to the Commission for reparation?

CHAIRPERSON: What is your full names please and can you spell it?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Are you talking about my address?

CHAIRPERSON: Your names first and then your address.

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I am Gertrude, Gertrude Nkosi, Gertrude Sonto Nkosi.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your address?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Number 56, Bingubela Hostel.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is that?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: It's a hostel in Ermelo.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR HATTINGH: Is it correct that you visited your son in the hospital on the 29th of May 1992?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes, that's correct.

MR HATTINGH: What was his condition when you saw him in hospital?