Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: We did not appreciate that, it was terrible.  To this day, we have not been to his grave.

ADV SANDI: According to your statement here, you have made requests first you say, these people, the perpetrators, they should come forward and ask at least for forgiveness.
 Could you elaborate please so that it is clear what it is that you are requesting?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: We want to know who the perpetrators are because we are not satisfied with just a report that says that he was killed.

ADV SANDI: Who is Vuyo Matandela?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: That is his son.

ADV SANDI: How old was he when his father was killed?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: Vuyo was four months old, because he was born in July, 27.

ADV SANDI: You said you have a request in connection with Vuyo?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: Yes, I do.  I am not working, I am unemployed.  I cannot support him, I live on pension.

ADV SANDI: Is there another request that you perhaps remember as you gave a statement?
 Are you getting a pension?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: Yes, I get a pension from old age.

ADV SANDI: Is that all the requests that you have?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: We never went to Lesotho to see the grave.  If my child's body could be exhumed and be buried back home.

ADV SANDI: Did you go ask for advice, to an attorney perhaps?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: No, we did not go to an attorney.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Matandela, is that all?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mrs Matandela.  Mrs Bungane, you say that your son - what was his name?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Mbuso Mzwandile.

ADV SANDI: How old was he?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: He was 19 years of age, he was born in 1963.

ADV SANDI: When did he leave for Maseru?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: He left when the schools were going to reopen, it was in 1982.  I can't remember the date.

ADV SANDI: Did they leave together with Dumisani?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: When he was in Maseru, before he was shot, had they written to you or phoned you?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.  The witnesses mike is not on.

ADV SANDI: Did this young man write to you?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: He wrote a letter.

ADV SANDI: Did he write a letter home?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: He wrote to me, he was asking for money.

ADV SANDI: Are there things that he mentioned in the letter referring to his life?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: No.  He just said that they might have to go overseas to school.

ADV SANDI: What standard was he doing at the time?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: He was in Matric.

ADV SANDI: Were you able to go to the funeral?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: I did not go  because I was expecting them - I was expecting their bodies to be sent home.  My brother went, he travelled from Bloemfontein.

ADV SANDI: Did you have a legal representative or perhaps did the organisation try to help you to bring the children's bodies this side?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: We did not have a legal representative.

ADV SANDI: Was it your wish to go to Maseru to bury your own child?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: You did not get permission?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: I did not request that I be permitted to go to Maseru, I simply requested that my child's body be brought home.
 They however, refused.  They said that the ANC could not come this side to bury our children.

ADV SANDI: Before your son left, were there problems, conflict perhaps with the police?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Yes, well the police would come to my house all the time.

ADV SANDI: Therefor the police were quite oppressive?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: They did nothing to me really, they would just ask questions.  The following week they would go to somebody else, otherwise they never really oppressed me.

ADV SANDI: Do you remember the requests that you made to the Commission?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: I have children, I am unemployed, and I do not get a pension.  My husband passed away quite a while back.  It is difficult for me to live day to day.  I had requests.

ADV SANDI: According to this statement, you say that you would like to know who the perpetrators are.  Do you have particular reasons for wanting to know who the perpetrators are?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: I just want to know the truth because it was very painful.  Even - I would like to know them, but there is nothing I can do really.

ADV SANDI: You heard Mrs Matandela say that these people should come forward, the perpetrators, and ask for forgiveness to the victims.

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: I hears her saying that today.  We don't live in the same area.  Yes, I heard her.

ADV SANDI: What do you think about that request that the perpetrators should come forward asking for forgiveness?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: It should be so so that we can have peace in our hearts.   They must ask for forgiveness.

ADV SANDI: You made a request about children that are at school - who are these children?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Yolanda Bungane and Anene.

ADV SANDI: ; Are these your children?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: They are my children.

ADV SANDI: Is that all you have to say Ma'am?

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: Yes.  We would like to see where our children are buried.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mrs Bungane, I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: I just want to ask a question to both of you Mrs Matandela and Mrs Bungane.  Mrs Matandela, in our work with the Commission, we meet a lot of - quite a few parents whose children died in Maseru.  I would like to know from you when they put forward their requests before the
Commission, some request that as the children were buried in Maseru and there was a tombstone there to commemorate this children and their names were written on this tombstone, some say that the bodies should not be exhumed, because they were buried in a place where heroes were buried, but some other parents request that these bodies should be exhumed so that their children be buried in South Africa - maybe you can advise us.  
 I am not saying it would happen as you wish, but we would like to know what you think about these different views?  I am not sure whether my question is clear?

ADELAIDE KHANYISILE MATANDELA: Yes, we understand.  Can I answer first please?  Personally, my view is that they should be exhumed and our heroes should be buried in South Africa, not in a foreign land.  Because when they are buried in Lesotho, it is like they are thrown away, but when they are buried in South Africa, it doesn't matter where they are, we will have peace in our hearts, because at least they will be in our land.

ADELAIDE MOKETE BUNGANE: That is a heavy question that you have asked sir.  I am not quite sure whether my wish is correct.  I would ... (tape ends)

CHAIRPERSON: It is something that is heavy indeed, Ma'am, you do not have to give an answer now.  Clearly Mrs Matandela has thought about this.  Maybe the Commission can try such that there is a meeting with all the parents because of they exhumed, they should all be exhumed, if things are going to be left as they are, all the children will be left as they are.
 Reverend Xundu who was at the funeral at Maseru, would like to thank you on behalf of the Commission.