Human Rights Violation Hearings — Upington — 1996-10-02

CASE NO: CT/04110

MR POTGIETER: Mr Mokgatla, good afternoon to you sir.

OTLOGECOE MOKGATLA: Good afternoon.

MR POTGIETER: Welcome.  You have also had to wait a very long time before telling your story.  I won't detain you unnecessarily.  Before you testify, would you please stand so that you can take the oath.
OTLOGECOE CASEWELL MOKGATLA Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may sit.  Glenda Wildschut will assist you and I hand over to her.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: How are you this afternoon Mr Mokgatla?

WITNESS:  I'm well thank you.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  Thank you for being so patient.  You have had a very long wait today to come and give your testimony so without further ado let us turn to your story.  Could you please tell us what happened to you during the 1980's when there were riots.  Please tell us what happened during those riots and what happened to you in particular.

WITNESS:  I would like to speak my own language.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  Yes you may do that.

WITNESS:  I took him halfway...

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  Please would you just wait for a moment so that the interpreters can continue.  Right, please just start again.

WITNESS:  I was staying with my friend talking in my house.  When we went out, about just a short distance from the corner, it was a little bit dark, we were not able to see clearly.  We saw people coming to us and they began to beat us, these people.  They were beating us, then I ran and I slipped, I fell on the ground then they continued to beat me.  There were two and the others were chasing my friend.  They were beating me there.  They've beaten me enough, I was not able even to stand up and I had a terrible pain on my waist.  I was able to say I'm dying for something I don't know.  After I spoken that they left me and went away.  They were, they have beaten me thoroughly.  Even now my body is still painful.  Then I went home.  I didn't lay a charge, I didn't lay a charge with the police because I thought I'll be arrested if I can go and lay a charge.  Then I went to the doctor - I went to the doctor then even up till now, even when I'm sleeping at night I'm not sleeping peacefully.  Even before God I know that He is the one who knows everything.  That's, that's my story.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  Do you know why you were beaten?  Do you have any idea why these police beat you?

WITNESS:  Even today I have, I don't know why I was beaten by the police - The Zulu policemen.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  These were Zulu policemen?

WITNESS:  Yes they were Zulu policemen who were beating us.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  You are a senior person today, how old were you when this happened, do you have any idea of how old you were?

WITNESS:  Even now I don't know how old I am.  Unfortunately I don't know how old I was but I know that I'm old now.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  Yes I just wanted you to confirm that you are a senior person in the community, you're a senior, you're a grandfather.

WITNESS:  Yes I think I'm having 71 years old, I'm having 70 years old.  I have completed my 71st birthday.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I do not have any questions to ask you except to hand over to the Chairperson who might have questions and my other colleagues might have questions for you.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you Glenda.  Wendy?  Mr Mokgatla, these Zulu policemen that you speak about, were they from Upington or were they foreign people from somewhere else, strange people?

WITNESS:  Yes, they were foreign people.  I think maybe they were ordered to come and just assault people all over.  They were just coming to look in our area but I believe that they just come to make a mess out of our area.

MR POTGIETER:  So they've been involved, to your, to what, from what you know, they have been involved in a lot of this sort of incident where they assaulted people.

WITNESS:  It was for the first time I met them on that day.  We didn't even believe that we would meet them but we met them so they assaulted us.

MR POTGIETER: [Indistinct] ... hear a lot about them at that time?---  Yes, yes people were talking about them but I, we didn't meet them and it was for the first time we met them on that day.

MR POTGIETER:  And when people spoke about them what were they, what were the people saying?  Are they friendly police or what?

WITNESS:  They were telling that they were assaulting people and [indistinct] ... they made to, they just, they just assault without even asking questions.

MR POTGIETER:  Thank you very much.  Mr Mokgatla, thank you for coming.  This obviously happened - you presently, you've said you're going in for your 71st birthday, you will be 71 years old so you were quite advanced in years when this incident happened to you in the 1980's and again it is quite an inditement of the police during those years.  We deal with many cases of this sort of senseless gratuitous action, unprovoked action against members of the community and we do understand that it must have been quite a traumatic experience for you to have gone through that but thank you for coming.  We have noted what you've said and your case has now come to our attention.  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:  Thank you sir.