Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-12

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  Mr Dehal?

MR DEHAL: Thank you Mr Chairperson.   Mr Chairperson, Mr Webster is not here today.  I do not seek any further indulgence as far as he is concerned.  He is not an applicant, he had received a notice to avail himself of these proceedings as an implicated party but perhaps I should just place on record that I did confer directly with him on the telephone and he asked me to record in the unlikely event of him not being present here today or during these proceedings that he supports all the applicants in their application for amnesty, that to the extent I discussed the evidence of the first few applicants and indeed those that I and Mr Kooverjee represent with him, he aligns himself with those versions, does not take issue with them and as I said supports their applications.  Thank you.  He apologies also for not being present, as I said earlier he is unemployed, he doesn't have funds to be present here.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Dehal.  Does that then conclude all the evidence that is going to be led on behalf of all the applicants?

MR DEHAL: Mr Chairperson, insofar as I am concerned, yes that is so.  I believe that Ms Kooverjee would probably want to address you on two remaining witnesses, but very briefly, on the same lines that I did insofar as Gordon Webster is concerned.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Kooverjee?

MS KOOVERJEE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Insofar as Janet Apelgren whom I represent, she has confirmed that she is unavailable to attend these proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: We heard that she's in Victoria, yes.

MS KOOVERJEE: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.  She aligns herself with whatever has been - the evidence which has been given at this hearing and she supports the application for applicants' amnesty.  The same with Mr Du Preez, he has also been subpoenaed as a witness, he is unavailable to attend due to lack of funds and ill health.  He also supports the evidence that has been led before this Committee and supports the application for amnesty by the applicants.  That is all, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Kooverjee.  Mr Richard?

MR DEHAL: Sorry Mr Chairperson, before Mr Richard begins perhaps I hand a return Exhibit D which has so long with me, I apologise.  I've also made an additional copy.  I also have made copies of the documents I undertake to make which deals with an excerpt from Volume 4, chapter 7 of the TRC report, an extract of which Ms Narkedien read out.  May I hand these copies in?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, thank you Mr Dehal.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, just for the record on behalf of the first to the fourth applicants, we do not intend tendering any further evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Berger.

MR RICHARD: Chairperson, with regard to the attack on Mrs Klein's house, it's appropriate to record that she's satisfied with the disclosures made and does not oppose the amnesty application in that regard.
	Then to turn to other matters, Mr Webster has chosen not to come and give evidence before the Committee and I do not believe that my learned colleague's statement takes the matter any further, it's certainly not evidence before the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, no we know that Mr Richard and we won't be regarding any of the statements made as to what people's attitudes are who haven't been here as being evidence of any note.

MR RICHARD: Thank you Chairperson.  Then I proceed to call Ms Burton to make an unsworn statement.  She is one of the victims.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Ms Burton, could you please give us your full names?

MARY BURTON: My name is Mrs Claire Evelyn Burton.   Evelyn

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MS BURTON READS STATEMENT: That's right, thank you.
	I would like to give my sincere thanks to the Truth Commission for affording me the long awaited opportunity to hear these proceedings and to be able to respond.  On the 14th June 1986 my family suffered the loss of my sister, Julie van der Linde.  She was a young 28 year old woman at the time of her death.  She was not a soldier or a police person.  She was a civilian.  She was murdered by Robert McBride in the Why Not/Magoo's bar bomb attack. 
	Ten months later, my family buried my father.  He was unable to deal with the shock and horror of his baby daughter's death.  Aboobaker Ismail was the commanding officer of the terrorist operatives, a commander who says he assumes responsibility for all the activities that his operatives carried out but he did not know that the Why Not bar was the target of attack on the 14th June 1986.  He has indicated that he would have chosen the Natal Command Military Base on the Marine Parade.  In fact, as the commanding officer, he knew hardly anything about everything.  His terrorist army seldom reported back to him, he gave commands that were not carried out, he relied on newspaper reports pasted in a scrapbook to keep himself updated with all the movements of his commandos.  He handed weapons and kilograms of explosives to 19, 20 and 21 years old boys, boys whose training consisted of a few weeks in some cases a few days and then turned them loose on society, all of them to do as they pleased.
	Aboobaker Ismail says that he was fighting a war.  I have sat here and heard Robert McBride with arrogance and pride boast of all the crimes he committed during this period and that he chose the Why Not/Magoo's bar because he'd been told that this bar was frequented by military and police personnel.  I do not believe him.  I heard his story of how he once went to the Magoo's bar with the intention of joining the people inside but he said that he was refused entry because the bar was too full but he could clearly see that this was not the case.  I believe that this was the reason that he chose the Magoo's bar on the 14th June 1986, he chose this bar to vent his own personal anger and not because he was ordered to do so.  I do not believe that this was an ANC organised operation.  Robert McBride is asking the Truth and Reconciliation Committee to dish amnesty onto a silver platter and hand it to him.
	Recent news reports have reported his involvement in a Cape Town brawl and that he spent six months in a jail outside of South Africa.  I have not read in the newspapers that Robert McBride speaks out against rape, I have not heard in the news that Robert McBride is going to establish a special armed unit to free this country of violence and crime.  What has Robert McBride done to earn amnesty?  What has Robert McBride done to deserve amnesty?  Robert McBride is a despicable man.
	I respectfully appeal to the Truth Commission to deny amnesty to Robert McBride and all who were involved in the bombing of the Why Not/Magoo's bar.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Burton.

MR RICHARD: Mrs Burton, is there anything else you would like to add?

MARY BURTON: That's all I'd like to add, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  The next person who would like to come forward is Sharon Welgemoed.  Ms Welgemoed is prepared to take the oath.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Welgemoed, is it correct that you wish to give evidence, take the oath?

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: I'm going to read out a statement but I am prepared to take the oath.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I don't know if Mr Richard explained the difference between merely making a statement or taking the oath?

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: Yes he has.

CHAIRPERSON: Because if you take the oath then I will then be giving opportunity to the representatives to put questions.

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: That's fine.  That's acceptable.

CHAIRPERSON: It's your choice.

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: No, that's acceptable.

CHAIRPERSON: So you wish to give evidence?

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Your full names are Sharon Welgemoed?

SHARON PATRICIA WELGEMOED: (sworn states)