Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

ADV POTGIETER: After he was released from detention you had to take him to the doctor.  He was in need of medical attention - is that correct.

NOTI MJADA: Yes sir, that's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Tell us what was wrong with him when he came out - physically speaking - I'm not talking about his mental condition.

NOTI MJADA: It was not physical health that made me take him to the doctor.  Physically he's in good health.

ADV POTGIETER: No, I'm talking about the time when he was released - immediately after he was released and he came home.  What was wrong with him physically.  You talk about his eyes being swollen - what else was wrong with him - physically speaking.

NOTI MJADA: It's just the eyes and the mental condition.  Nothing else sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I'm going to unfortunately ask for some more details, because it is very important for out purpose to have a full picture of what happened.  So I am going to ask you with reference to the statement that you gave to us was there anything wrong with his private parts after he came out of detention.

NOTI MJADA: As a woman I could not really investigate about that, but his urine was blood.  I would give - he then asked for money to go to the doctor - and time and time again I would give him the money.  I cannot talk about his penis, because I did not see it.  But his urine had blood.

ADV POTGIETER: But I am going to ask you what did he tell you what happened - did anything happen to his private parts whilst he was in detention.  Did they do any harm to that.

NOTI MJADA: He says that they would open a drawer - put his penis in the drawer  and then close the drawer.  When I was called the first time - when the police said he was sick - there was a child that kept on writing a letter.   I had grandpa with me.
They said they had taken him to a doctor and that the doctor said there's nothing wrong with him.  It is when he was at home that I realised that he was ill.  I realise that his urine wasn't as it should have been.

ADV POTGIETER: I appreciate it very much.  I know it is not easy to give evidence about intimate details and especially a public hearing like this, but I want to assure you that this is vitally important and it's not the first time that we've heard about this particular form of torture that was perpetrated by the police.  So I thank you for giving us that information.

NOTI MJADA: Thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: What I wanted to ask you is that - I assume he is still getting treatment for his medical condition at this state.

NOTI MJADA: Yes, he still gets treatment - monthly.  He gets injected monthly.  Not on the same date, but every month he gets an injection.

ADV POTGIETER: Ms Mjada after your son came out you tried to take your son to Doctor Standard.  That same doctor which I assume Ms Ntsizakalo is working for.  What was his attitude.  What did he tell you.

NOTI MJADA: This doctor had no empathy towards children that were in the struggle.  He treated him like a doctor.  I then took him to Doctor Thompson.  I took him to Doctor Thompson.  He then got better.  Doctor Standard had no regard - he took him as a dog.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] you were terrorists.

NOTI MJADA: Yes, he used to tell met I am a terrorist.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.

MARY BURTON: Ms Mjada and Ms Ntsizakalo I think every mother who heard you speaking today ill be able to sympathise with you.  We all hope that our sons will grow up healthy and strong and able to lead productive lives.  And we can really understand your anxiety about them now about their future.  You've shown a terrible picture of the kinds of things that happened to young people at that time in your area.  
We hope that your worries about the possible discontinuing of the disability grant will not be realised and we will do what we can to recommend that they go on receiving the support that they need and we hope that they will be able to get the medical and psychological attention that they need and that you'll have that anxiety set at rest.  
You were very brave to come here today and tell about this and we thank you very much indeed and we pray that you will be comforted.  We are now going to take a in a minute a short break - just for ten minutes or so to give people a change to stand up and move around but we will ask you first to remain seated and to allow the witnesses to go out to the foyer which I presume is at the back.  So will the witnesses now leave the room.  You can follow Gail in the red jacket and you are very welcome also to leave the stage.  I presume you will go that way.  Thank you very much indeed.  And we will be back here.