Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

REV XUNDU: Thank you, Chairperson.  While you are standing Lindile Watson Kolisi.

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: The witness has been duly sworn in, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We would like to welcome you Mr Kolisi.  We are now going to hand you over to Mr Ntsikelelo Sandi who will lead your evidence by way of a few questions on behalf of the Commission.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Kolisi, you have requested to appear before this Commission and come and speak about your son Sipho Victor Kolisi.  Is that correct?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Yes, that is correct.

ADV SANDI: Let us speak very briefly about your son, Sipho.  You said that he left here to join the ANC abroad.  In which year was that?  Did you say that was in 1985?  According to your statement, you said 1985.

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: How old was he, was he at school or was he working?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: He was still at school.

ADV SANDI: What standard was he in?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: He was in standard eight.

ADV SANDI: What was his age at the time of his disappearance?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: He was still very young.  Besides the fact that he was very young, I would like to get into my story.  At the time when he was still at home he was talking about the political situation and also the youth and it was apparent to me that they were having meetings, they were known as COSAS and some of the other boys that use to come and see him, one of them is here.  They use to like to come to my place and while they were there, detectives came there and they were arrested.  After their arrest they were photographed and, from what I hear, he played an important role in the meetings and the organisations, because people said that he was very active.  Thereafter, I was worried about this, but there was no way I could stop him because they were fighting for a worthy cause.
 Then the police came with sjamboks, it was late at night and I was fairly intoxicated.  They came there and they said they were looking for Siphiwo and I said there is no Siphiwo here.  I said there is a Sipho Kolisi and they said, yes, that is the person we are looking for.  I said, look, you were looking for Siphiwo, there is no Siphiwo here, my child's name is Sipho Kolisi.  They left and Sipho came back.  I said to him, listen, the detectives are looking for you and he said, oh dad, and I said, look boy, the detectives are looking for you, see what you can do.  He disappeared and I discovered that, I later heard that they were sleeping at St Pauls College where some priests were and the police did not stop harassing us at home, looking for them armed with sjamboks and threatening to arrest and threatened me as well, saying that, Mdala, we are going to assault you as well and I said, you will never do that.  They would then leave.  After a while my child disappeared and I did not see him again.

ADV SANDI: Before he left, did he ever say, mention to you that he had any intention of leaving this country?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: His mother was alive at the time and he would mention it to his mother, but he would not say that to me, because he knew that I was very strict when it came to his school education.  I would have said to him that he was still too young to participate in politics and he would say to me, dad, I prefer to die for my country, for the liberation of my country.  His mother would agree with him and say, leave the child, if he feels this way, let it be.  When he left he said, mum, I am leaving.  We are very oppressed in this country and we are battling here at home and the Boers are oppressing us like you will not believe, but I am going to come back and when I get back you will have everything.  That is what he said to his mother.

ADV SANDI: Did you ever establish whom he left with?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: He left with Mankayi's son who is a soldier.

ADV SANDI: And Tony Yaka?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Yes, they all left together.

ADV SANDI: There was a third person who you mentioned in your statement, Mzimasi Ncapayi.

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: I think it was he, he was one of them.

ADV SANDI: After his disappearance did he ever send messages home or write or phone?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: He wrote a letter.

ADV SANDI: When was that?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: I cannot recall dates very well, but I am sure about that.  What one has to be sure about besides the date is that you are sure that you received this.

ADV SANDI: If I can remind you, according to your statement, you, it was in 1989.

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: I took the letter and read it and it said, mum and dad, I am still alive and I am happy and I would be very happy if you were also well, I am very happy.  There was no address.

ADV SANDI: Was there ever another letter or any other communication thereafter?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Thereafter all was quiet.

ADV SANDI: The guys that he left with, they came back, did they come and tell you where your son was?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: What is amazing is that I heard that these boys know what happened to my son.  They were all together, they left together.  The day a ritual was performed at the Mankayi home, where a cow was slaughtered, they went there and they participated in eating the meat and things like that and I was asking Mr Mankayi, Mankayi, your son was with my son.  He said, yes, they were all there, they were eating meat at the ritual and they did say that they were going to leave.

ADV SANDI: Did any others come to your house thereafter from the organisation which your son went to join, coming to tell you what happened to your son?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Some men came from the ANC and came to tell us that Sipho Kolisi had been shot.

ADV SANDI: Do you remember who these men were, did they identify themselves to you?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: I still remember who they are.  It was shortly after I had buried my wife and I was still grieving the loss of my wife.  While I was sitting there with the priest, somebody came to call me.  They were a, they were not too keen to tell me, because I was still grieving and I went to them and said, look, tell me what is it and they said, look, we hate to be the bearers of bad news especially in your grief and the priest said, look, let us pray.  We prayed and prayed and I looked around and I was very anxious and they said, Mr Kolisi, your wife is deceased, you have a son by the name Sipho and I said, yes, what is wrong with my son.  They said, please do not get too upset and I asked for a glass of water and then they informed me that my son was also dead.  I cried out, oh my God, why did you not rather take me first so that I did not even know where he was buried.  The priest consoled me and said you are a Christian, you are born again and you have to be strong and I said to him that this, it was quite apparent that this child died while my wife was still alive.  I said that I realised that this child who had died while my wife was still alive ...

ADV SANDI: You may take your time, Mr Kolisi, I will wait.

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: ... and I wanted to know why God had not rather taken me first, what had I done, what was this great sin which I had committed, because my wife had just died in a car accident and now it was my son.  It is better if you just take me as well.  The priest comforted me and I then went home, because we were at the priest's house that morning.  It was the Reverend Changena.

ADV SANDI: You have a request here with regards to the remains of your son.  Do you remember that?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: Yes, I do.

ADV SANDI: What is that request?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: I heard, I have a wish that the ANC, at least, make means for me to have back the remains of my son.

ADV SANDI: Is that all you would like to say in this regard?

LINDILE WATSON KOLISI: No, I have not finished.

ADV SANDI: You may proceed.