Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

WITNESS:   I will put forward to this Commission that where we are staying we are like ANC members, because of the area.  The person who is a chief in that area is an ANC member.

KHOZA MGOJO:  So these people who shot your brothers, to what organization do they belong?

WITNESS:   I cannot stand for it, but they are staying in this area which is IFP area.

KHOZA MGOJO:  When this shooting took place, was there any violence or conflict between these two areas?

WITNESS:   It was after - according to my knowledge, at that time people were not killing each other.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I also want to check something for the record.  In your statement - I just want to make sure so that we can erase if you've written something inaccurate.  The statement says that your son had IFP membership.

WITNESS:   My elder son was IFP member, because the white man for whom he was working was an IFP member.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you know the name of this white man?

WITNESS:   I don't know.

KHOZA MGOJO:  In other words, you don't know the reason why your son was killed?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  It troubles me up until today.  I really don't know what led to this incident.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you think it's because they were staying in the ANC area?

WITNESS:   I don't know, maybe.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, you came here before the Truth Commission.  What do you want this Commission to do for you?

WITNESS:   Dumisweni died and left two kids behind.  I am old now and my husband is old.  I would like the Commission to please take care of my children - my grandchildren - as to educate them, because now I'm unable - the money that I'm receiving as a pension is too little, insufficient, for me to take care of my grandchildren.  I would like this Commission to please take care of these children. Please take your time.  Don't rush yourself.  We will finish just now.  Another thing that you're asking from this Commission - do you have any other requests which you want to make?   ---   No, if they can only educate my grandchildren and if they can build the house which my son was going to build.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you still have your house?

WITNESS:   Yes, I still do.  I stayed there even though I realised that I was supposed to run away, but I said, "I'm not running away.  I'm going to stay here".

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, I want to ask something.  I checked your statement.  There is another thing that you've also mentioned that you requested this Commission to do for you.  You asked for a shelter and you also asked for protection from this Commission because there are people who are threatening you.  These people who killed your son are still threatening you, so you're asking from the Commission that if they can please protect you.

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is it so?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's so.  It's true.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Why are they threatening you, because they were not arrested.

WITNESS:   This started after they won the case.  They called us dogs and they even mentioned that this wasn't the first incident.  It wasn't the first thing they've done and we thought we were clever to take them court.  So they are still angry at us that this was the first time for them to appear in court, and if I meet them they still say to me, "You think you're clever".

KHOZA MGOJO:  We have taken note of that.  You also asked something that you want this Commission to make sure that they investigate why these people who killed your sons killed them and you want to know why.

WITNESS:   My problem is I never heard them involved in any conflicts with these guys, so my heart is troubled.  I can't get peace and these people who killed my children are still out there.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I would like to know if you want us to investigate as to why they didn't call you when these men were appearing in court?

WITNESS:   Yes, I would also like you to investigate that for me.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How were you affected with this incident?  I mean emotionally and physically.

WITNESS:   I'm very ill ever since this incident.  I don't rest emotionally.  Even my eyes, I can't see now.  I can't see far.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And what about your husband?

WITNESS:   And my husband as well.  He's also affected badly.  We cry sometimes and we are too old and my son was the one who was taking care of us.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You and your husband are receiving pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, we are, but we have a big family.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you go to doctors?  Do you see doctors?

WITNESS:   No, we don't, because I have to think for food to buy for those children and clothes to buy for the children.  I can't afford to go to the doctor.

KHOZA MGOJO:  In other words, if one can arrange for you to see doctors you can?

WITNESS:   Yes, we can.  I can't even take the children to doctors if they're sick.

KHOZA MGOJO: We heard Mrs Ntshangase.  The request that you just told us, we will take them as they are and we will pass them over to the President.  We can give you an assurance that we will 100% come back to you and say, "This is what we will do".  The Government will sit down and they will look at your case and they will see what to do.  We sympathise with you, more especially with the case, because you know who the perpetrators are and we will try and look for you what really happened.  We will investigate this matter.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just ask, Dumisani, can you remember what date that court case was in Eshowe or Mtubatuba?

WITNESS:   3/6/1996.

CHAIRPERSON:  June 1996.

WITNESS:   Ja, 3/6/96.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry.  Thank you very much.  Are there any other questions.  Mrs Nyawo and Dumisani, we want to thank you both very much for coming in here today.  We can see that you are still very sad, upset about the death of your son and your nephew and this is something that we've found in so many of the towns that we've been to that so often it is the elderly people, especially the women, who are most affected by this violence.  They play very little part in the violence, they don't participate in it, they don't encourage the violence, the women, and yet they are affected by it.  We ask you to pass on our sympathy to your husband.  We will look at the court records in the court in Eshowe and Mtubatuba to try and find out what happened, how it was that these people could have been acquitted and we will report back to you on that.  We hope that we are now living in a different sort of country.  Your son and your nephew were killed probably because they lived in what was thought to be an ANC area and it's a terrible thing where people can get killed for no other crime than that they live in an area which is dominated by one or other political party.  We really need to move to another era.  We hope that we have left that era behind.  I know that in many parts of KwaZulu/Natal we have not left that era behind.  People are still dying for those sorts of reasons, but we hope that eventually this will become a thing of the past.  Also, as Dr Mgojo has said, we will pass on your request to the State President and the Government with regard to assistance for your grandchildren.  So, unless you have got anything else you would like to say to us, I want to thank you both for coming in and talking to us today.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: 7A/0

CHAIRPERSON: The next witness today is Lulu Xolo.  Mrs Xolo, thank you for being here today.  You have come from Stanger, is that correct?

LULU XOLO: Yes, correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming such a long way to tell us your story.  You've come to tell us about the death of your son, Clive Mazibuko and your mother, Elizabeth Mazibuko in 1993.  Can you please stand and take the oath before you tell that story.

LULU XOLO: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)