Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

MR SESELE: I'm also putting to you that the rest of the members of the SDUs who are applicants in this matter knew about the robbery case against Mr Mohomane, that is why they participated in this killing.

MR MOSIA: I don't believe that they know because they are not staying with him in the township.  I am the one who was staying with him in the township because he was coming regularly at my place because he was attending school next to my place.  He used to come to me regularly.

MR SESELE: You have also said that - if I remember well, you have also said that you saw the policemen in the restaurant by their faces.  In other words you saw by their faces that they were policemen, is that right?

MR MOSIA: Because I knew the policemen who were working within our township.

MR SESELE: So you knew the two officers before the incident?

MR MOSIA: Yes, I knew them.  ...(no English translation)

MR SESELE: Isn't it true that you specifically targeted the two officers because of the grudge that Mr Mohomane had with one of them?

MR MOSIA: No, Sir, I don't know as to whether they were associated with the armed robbery case.  There were not two, there were three but when they went out to the car I saw the two of them.  Inside the restaurant there were three.

MR SESELE: Thank you, Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SESELE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sesele.  Mr Mapoma, do you have any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Mr Mhlaba?

MR MHLABA: None, Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Doctor Tsotsi, any questions?

DR TSOTSI: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Only a single question, Mr Chairperson.
	Would you say this mission to go and attack the police was Mr Mohomane's idea?

MR MOSIA: Yes, he's the one who came with this idea then he said it came from the ANC offices, from the one who was senior to him who instructed him.  So he came to us to instruct us to carry out this operation.

MR SIBANYONI: But you personally do not know who is that one who is senior than Mohomane, am I correct?

MR MOSIA: No, I don't know that person.  He told us that he would introduce us to this person who instructed him but we have never met him.

MR SIBANYONI: When you saw these police people in the restaurant, was it for the first time you met them or were they people you have seen before?

MR MOSIA: I was not seeing them for the first time, I knew them because they were working in our township because we used to meet them time and again.

MR SIBANYONI: Did you also know who they are or who they were?

MR MOSIA: Yes, I knew their identity.

MR SIBANYONI: You knew that one of them was Mr Makau?

MR MOSIA: Mr Makau.

MR SIBANYONI: Makau, yes.

MR MOSIA: Yes, that is correct, I knew him.

MR SIBANYONI: No further questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were recruited by to join the SDU?

MR MOSIA: That is comrade Mohomane, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you belong to any other SDU units other than this one consisting of you and the other applicants in this matter?

MR MOSIA: I was a member of the ANC, then I was introduced to the SDU by Mr Mohomane.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you work with any other units of the SDU, other than this one consisting of yourself and the other applicants?

MR MOSIA: We had many SDUs who used to meet at my place.  We were just discussing generally with them.

CHAIRPERSON: So you didn't do any other operations with them?

MR MOSIA: No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Were any of the firearms that you kept legal, I mean in the sense that they were licensed and their possession was legal?

MR MOSIA: Only guns which were brought my Mr Mohomane, then he told me that they belonged to the organisation.  I didn't know anything as to whether they had licences or not.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlaba, do you have any questions arising out of questions that have been put by members of the panel?

MR MHLABA: Thank you, I've got no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sesele?

MR SESELE: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR SESELE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Just one, Chairperson.
	Mr Mosia, you have just told the Committee that you did not participate in any other operation except for the one in this application, do you remember that?

MR MOSIA: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: Are you serious?

MR MOSIA: Yes, I'm serious, Sir, because the one which I was together with Kubeka and Motlokoa I was not found guilty, I was acquitted.  Therefore it is very difficult to talk about that before this Commission.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, that concludes your testimony, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlaba?

MR MHLABA: Thank you, Chair.  I am not ready to address the Committee now, nor am I in a position to indicate at this very stage whether this will conclude the testimony on behalf of all the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you wish then to postpone till tomorrow?

MR MHLABA: I will be so happy.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  I see that it's now after half past four, we'll then postpone this matter until tomorrow.  What time will be convenient, gentlemen?

MR MHLABA: 9 o'clock will be convenient for me or even earlier if it so pleases the Committee.

MR SESELE: I will be available, Mr Chairman, from 9 o'clock or even earlier, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I think then if we can postpone to 9 o'clock, would that suit you?  We'll postpone this matter then till 9 o'clock tomorrow, either to receive further evidence, we don't know or alternatively if that is not the case then for legal submissions to be made, submissions to be made by the legal representatives.  We'll then adjourn until tomorrow at 9 o'clock in the morning, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS