Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-02

MR LAX: But you went and attacked people who were sitting down under a tree, drinking beer?  What were you afraid of, they didn't even have weapons on them?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Please repeat the question.

MR LAX: The question was that you went and attacked people who were sitting down, unsuspecting, under a tree, drinking beer.  They didn't have weapons with them, you just arrived and attacked them.  What were you afraid of?
	You never met any resistance, did you?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: We approached them whilst they were not suspecting that we would actually arrive there.

CHAIRPERSON: If you were afraid of them, why didn't you shoot them?  Why go up and slice them and stab them and cut them?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: When we approached, we actually approached from a direction where there were a lot of trees, so they did not see us approaching.  If you are attacked in that manner, that is if you are unsuspecting, you are actually shocked when you realise that people are there to attack you, and when we actually came up on them, they were shocked because they were not expecting us.

MR LAX: You went there expecting to find an ANC meeting, is that right?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: That is correct.

MR LAX: But you didn't find an ANC meeting, you found four or five people sitting around under the trees, drinking, isn't that so?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: There were more than five.

MR LAX: You say there were 25 people sitting there?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I said there were not more than 25.

MR LAX: Well, how is it that you didn't attack and kill more people then?  Why didn't you just shoot the whole lot of them, you had guns?  If these were the people that had attacked your area, why didn't you use your guns and shoot the lot of them and get the most benefit out of your attack?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Some of them fled and the others remained.  They fled to the trees, so I could not have shot at somebody who had actually hidden in the trees.

MR LAX: It is your evidence that they never saw you coming, you could have sneaked up, you could have aimed your firearms and you could have shot the whole lot of them before they had a chance to move.
	If that was your intention to go there and attack the people who had attacked your area, while they were having a meeting, why didn't you do that?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: The situation was that we were also not very sure of what was going to happen, because these people were also taking traditional medicine just as much as we did.

MR LAX: You expected to come upon a meeting, on your version there was a meeting going on, correct?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes.

MR LAX: So people who are busy in a meeting, aren't looking around them to see what is going on outside and around on the outside of the meeting.  Isn't that so?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: That is correct.

MR LAX: So you told us that you sneaked up on them, out of the trees.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes.

MR LAX: Why didn't you just open fire and run back into the trees and be gone before anyone knew anything?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: The trees surrounded the house, so it would not have been easy to shoot at them, that is why we just went directly up to them.

MR LAX: You went up to them directly, because you wanted them to know that you were Inkatha?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes.

MR LAX: That doesn't make sense then, that you should do that.  It would effect your effectiveness as an attacker?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Please repeat the question.

MR LAX: You minimise your effectiveness as an attacker?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: We were looking for them, we wanted to kill them after they had attacked the IFP.

MR LAX: Precisely, and you were expecting to find all these people that had attacked you at a meeting?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, that is so.

MR LAX: Again, explain why you didn't kill as many of them as you possibly could, if these were the very people that had attacked you?  Why didn't you use your firearms once you had used your knives?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Some of them fled.

MR LAX: We are not talking about some of them, we are talking about up to 25 people.  There were only six people that were injured or killed.  Even if we say there were 20, that still leaves another 14 people available?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: That is because those fled.

MR LAX: This area that you attacked, was that also under Nkosi Khumalo?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: No.

MR LAX: Which Nkosi was this under?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Cele.

MR LAX: And why had people from that area, attacked your area?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Please repeat your question.

MR LAX: Why had people from Cele's area, attacked your area which was Khumalo's area?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I do not know.  I don't understand how it happened.

MR LAX: Well you see, in your application form you say people from Umbumbulu came and attacked and caused the trouble.  Do you remember you wrote that in your application form?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I remember, it is just that this happened a while ago.

MR LAX: Yes, but I find it very surprising that you can't explain why these attacks took place.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: You see, you told us that things were peaceful until the end of 1992 in your area.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: That is correct.

MR LAX: Well in fact, they weren't peaceful because there was an attack in the middle of 1992?  Please explain this.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: The ANC attacked the IFP and they were from the Umbumbulu area.  These are the people who were responsible for the start of the violence in the area.
	They actually attacked the Xebani household.  That is when the violence started and we also wanted to attack them in return.

MR LAX: You see, you said it was peaceful until the end of 1992.  This attack that you are talking about where your relative and Luthuli's relative was killed, was in August 1992, which is the middle of 1992.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Chairman, I think in all fairness to Mr Zulu, he didn't make specific reference by saying that, up until the end of 1992 there was peace.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think you know, whether it was August or towards the end.

MR LAX: How far is Lindelani from this area that you went to attack?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It is far, because you have to actually take transport, board transport to go to that area.

MR LAX: You lived at Lindelani for six months, why go and look for trouble in another area that is so far away?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: My intention was not to stir up trouble, but my home and our property was still in the area and we wanted to collect that property which had actually been left in our homes when we fled.
	We were unable to do that because the fighting was still going on.  An IFP member would have been killed if he had been found in the area by the ANC.

MR LAX: Why didn't you go to the police and say to the police we need your help, we want you to accompany us, this is the kwaZulu police who were operating in Ndwedwe and Inanda and in all those areas, and say to them we need your help, we are Inkatha people, we need to go and fetch our possessions, please (indistinct) us to this place and help us get our possessions.  Why didn't you do that?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: We went to the nearest police station, which was Macadeni and we reported to the police there that we requested to be able to go and pick up our property and those policemen said they could not accompany us because they also feared for their lives, they have small kids.

MR LAX: Are you saying that the kwaZulu police were so afraid of going into this area, that they wouldn't accompany you to fetch your possessions?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: We went to the Macadeni police station, that was the SAP police station.

MR LAX: Why didn't you go to the kwaZulu police, which would have been people who were much more favourably disposed towards the IFP and asked them for help?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: They were far from where we were.

MR LAX: But you were at Lindelani, there were police close by there?