Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-25

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And the final question in this regard, wasn't it ...[inaudible] one of the reasons of the delay so you could communicate with Port Elizabeth and find out from them if anybody had seen you abducting these two people and whether an alarm had been raised?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: It was so Mr Chairperson, and I assume that General Erasmus would have informed General van Rensburg in this regard if this had happened Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How would - could he have done this?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: He could have possibly have - he could possibly have phoned the branch commander - I'm just giving examples, I'm speculating.  He could have contacted the branch commander and he could have driven there and have come and warned us.

CHAIRPERSON: And if Colonel Erasmus was going to be away he would have appointed someone else to do this, wouldn't he?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: Mr Chairperson, once again I'm speculating, he could possibly have appointed somebody else, the second in command who was in the office or normally he would say where he was going and somebody would be able to contact him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but it was very important if reports were been made that you had been seen with these people, that you should be contacted as quickly as possible, wasn't it?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is true.

CHAIRPERSON: And finally, you referred to a docket yesterday, what docket was that?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: It was the dossier on the explosion Sir, which had occurred at Constantia.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it the actual docket that you've got?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: Yes, it is the actual docket.

CHAIRPERSON: I've had arrangements - I hope that I - that they will be made available, right.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: It is so Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR BOOYENS: That concludes the evidence on behalf of these applicants Mr Chairman.
APPLICANTS'  CASE

MR NYOKA: Mr Chairman, on the advice of my advocate we're not calling any witnesses, thank you.

MR BRINK: I propose calling no witnesses Mr Chair.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, if you're going to continue, we've got a flight arranged for half past one.

CHAIRPERSON: You're going to have to travel quickly.

MR VISSER: It seems to us.  We would like to be excused - it doesn't seem as if there's anything that we're going to be involved in this afternoon.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, the afternoon will merely be an address.  You propose to address us now don't you?

MR NYOKA: I'm ready now Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You do not I gather from your attitude, wish to address us now Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Well I was just going to enquire Mr Chairman, whether it would be in order for us to give you proper written argument at a later stage.  We don't believe it will take too long to draft them, depending of course when we can get hold of the record.  We would like to see the record because a great many facts have been laid before here and we would like to deal with those.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you can get a copy of the address I take it?

MR VISSER: Yes, that would be the point, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think there's any - does anybody wish to say anything about why we shouldn't get rid of Mr Visser that he can now follow Mr Phosa?

MR NYOKA: We don't have any objection getting rid of Mr Visser.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well Mr Visser, you've observed the attitude of your colleague.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, although I've got no flights to
catch like my colleague, I may perhaps indicate that I also intend to rather file written argument to the Committee but we will obviously remain in attendance.

CHAIRPERSON: I have which I hope is a reliable guarantee that it won't take very long.

MR BOOYENS: I don't recall giving ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, not from you.

MR BOOYENS: I didn't ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: I wouldn't expect on like that from you Mr Booyens.
	Very well, would you like to address us at this stage?