Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-01-17

CHAIRPERSON: What happened on that occasion?  On the second occasion when you were taken to CR Swart, what happened then?

LINDIWE ZONDI: I was with my mother-in-law and we were asked to identify his clothing that he had on on the day he was killed.  That was what we did and we returned with the clothes home.

CHAIRPERSON: When were you taken to the mortuary, was it after this incident at CR Swart Square or before that?

LINDIWE ZONDI: It was after I had been to CR Swart.

CHAIRPERSON: And what happened at the mortuary?

LINDIWE ZONDI: When I arrived there the police were already present, they took me to identify him and we went and I did identify his body.  He was lying facing upwards.

CHAIRPERSON: Up to that stage, had anybody ever told you why your husband had been killed, or by whom he had been killed?

LINDIWE ZONDI: No-one approached me with that information because up to this day I do not know where exactly he was killed.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask him as to why he was killed or who killed him?

LINDIWE ZONDI: I was in such a state that I could not ask such questions, but my sister did enquire from one policeman who arrived with the rest at my home, who told her that they had been killed by policemen from KwaMashu.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do carry on.

MR WEBSTER: Is there anything else you'd like to add, Mr Zondi?

LINDIWE ZONDI: The death of my husband has traumatised me greatly, it has left me with a burden of caring for the children alone.

MR WEBSTER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WEBSTER

CHAIRPERSON: Do you work?

LINDIWE ZONDI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What work do you do?

LINDIWE ZONDI: I'm a cleaner.

CHAIRPERSON: From the time that your husband died, who had been supporting and maintaining your children?

LINDIWE ZONDI: I am.

CHAIRPERSON: Are the children with you still?

LINDIWE ZONDI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What do they do, do they go to school, do they work or what do you they do?

LINDIWE ZONDI: The eldest completed matric last year and the second one is in standard eight.

CHAIRPERSON: Who pays for their schooling and their education?

LINDIWE ZONDI: I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Any further questions?  Mr Webster?

MR WEBSTER: No further questions, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Does counsel have no questions to ask?

MR VISSER: I do have one aspect to cover, with your leave, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Please do.

MR VISSER: Madam, did your husband at all take part in the struggle, doing anything at all?

LINDIWE ZONDI: No.

MR VISSER: Mrs Zondi, what I want to know is was your husband an activist?

LINDIWE ZONDI: He was interested in that.  When there were marches he would participate, but I did not know him to be an active member of something.

MR VISSER: Is it possible that he could have participated in activities that you didn't know about?

LINDIWE ZONDI: It is possible, but he never discussed them with me.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

ADV BOSMAN: Mrs Zondi, I just want to say I think it's a wonderful achievement of your children in these circumstance and especially for the one who managed to do her matric last year.  Our congratulations.

LINDIWE ZONDI: I thank you.

COURT: Thank you very much, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR WEBSTER: Mr Chairman, may I call Fikile Mabaso.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you spell the first name.

MR WEBSTER: F-i-k-i-l-e.

COURT: Thank you.

FIKILE MABASO: (sworn states)

COURT: Yes, please proceed.

MR WEBSTER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mrs Mabaso, were you related to any of the four young men who were shot and killed at Quarry Road in '86?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

MR WEBSTER: Who were you related to?

FIKILE MABASO: Blessing Mabaso.

MR WEBSTER: How were you related?

FIKILE MABASO: He was my husband.

MR WEBSTER: When had you been married to him?

FIKILE MABASO: In 1985.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I have difficulty in hearing the answers from the interpreter.

CHAIRPERSON: Will the interpreter just speak a little more loudly please.   You were married to him in 1985.

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have any children?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: How many?
END OF TAPE 1A
START OF TAPE 1B

FIKILE MABASO: ... that he had outside the children.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say he had four children or a fourth child outside the marriage?

INTERPRETER: They had three children and he also had four outside the marriage.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR WEBSTER: Can you just give us the dates of birth of your three children?

FIKILE MABASO: The eldest was born on the 8th of January 1981, the second was born on the 24th of April 1983 and the last-born was born of the 28th of November 1985.

MR WEBSTER: And who has maintained them since your husband's death?

FIKILE MABASO: I was employed as a casual worker but I'm now unemployed, but I do get some money from work.

MR WEBSTER: Do you recall the day when your husband left, that fateful day when he left home?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, it was on a Saturday.

MR WEBSTER: Did he tell you where he was going to when he left home?

FIKILE MABASO: On that weekend I had gone to my parents' home, so I was not around.

MR WEBSTER: When did you learn about his death?

FIKILE MABASO: We learnt about it on a Monday and we learnt about it from the newspapers.

MR WEBSTER: Did anybody come to your residence to report about the incident after you had seen it in the newspapers?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

MR WEBSTER: Did the police ever come to your home after your husband's death?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

MR WEBSTER: Were you ever asked to make or depose to an affidavit which was going to be used for the purposes of an inquest?

FIKILE MABASO: Please repeat that question.

MR WEBSTER: Did you ever depose to an affidavit which was to be used at an inquest?  In other words, where there would be an investigation into the death of your husband.

FIKILE MABASO: We contacted a lawyer, a Mr Mlaba, with regards to their death.

MR WEBSTER: Is there anything else that you wish to tell this Committee?

FIKILE MABASO: What I would like to say is that I do not believe anything from what has been put before this Committee.

MR WEBSTER: That would be all, thanks.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WEBSTER

CHAIRPERSON: When you read in the newspaper about the death of your husband, did you not go to the police or anybody else to make enquiries about him?

FIKILE MABASO: It's my sister who went to enquire.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?

FIKILE MABASO: She went to CR Swart.

CHAIRPERSON: Did she tell you what happened at CR Swart?

FIKILE MABASO: She explained that when she arrived there they gave her problems, they wanted to know from where she got that information because the names were not identified in the newspaper, it was just a story of a Cressida that had been shot at by the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on, what else did they say?

FIKILE MABASO: Although I may not be able to put it in sequence as she told me, but I think they did not reveal to her the identities of the people who had been shot, they revealed that information after she had contacted the Diaconia(?) Council of Churches.  That was when they showed her photos to identify her relative.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say that you learnt about your husband's death in the newspaper, how did you know that it related to your husband when there were no names given in the paper?

FIKILE MABASO: They did mention the car and the registration number of that vehicle and that was the vehicle that they had used when they left home.

CHAIRPERSON: And so because they gave the ...(intervention)

FIKILE MABASO: Also for the fact that he had also disappeared.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose vehicle was it?

FIKILE MABASO: It belonged to one of his friends.

CHAIRPERSON: So your husband's name was not in the paper.  Was it in the paper at the time, in the newspaper?

FIKILE MABASO: It was not in the paper.

CHAIRPERSON: And so you did nothing further about it but you sent your sister to find out.