Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: is a sell-out because he does not want to work with us." Isaid to them, these youngsters, "I can't work with children. I am only workingwith your parents, not you, you youths, because I am not a youth, I am a grownup man. I can't do youth work during this time when I am so grown up." And thenthey started to say that we should resign from the Council. Well, I said tothem, "We can resign from the Council, but as soon as we resign everything'sgoing to be at a standstill in your township here, because you can see whatwe have done for you, you people here, you youngsters." Well, that group whowere the anti- Comrades, four, five, six of them, they were now the people really,you know, after us, howling, harassing us, swearing at us, doing anything tous, making petrol bombs and all such and such. And then I have to report thematter to the ANC out in Johannesburg, and then they said they knowing all aboutthose children, or the so-called youth at Brandfort. Because I make a reportto the ANC that, "These children or these youngsters they used to be just hooligans,dagga smokers, rapists. How can you call them youths of the ANC?" And then theysent some delegation to Brandfort there. They found they couldn't do a thingabout it. In 1992 the squabble was just on - petrol bombing my place and harassingus, and fighting each other. And then they started to kill some other youthsin our township there, the very same guys who were calling themselves ANC youths.Then it happened that in 1991 again they said we should resign from the Council.In July, on the 14th of July, I was at my place there, and I left during theevening. Because my son is a taxi driver I thought of going to the station togo and help him with some passengers who were coming into our area there. Well,I went to the station to help my son. It was around about half past eight. At9 o'clock, when I was from the station, I find my place burning there. The wholecafe was in flames, and I went there shouting, looking for my wife, I couldn'tfind my wife there. I called the police, the police said, "No, we can't do abloody thing, man, your place is burning." "So where is my wife?" No, the policecouldn't do a - couldn't help me, so I have to get myself into that burningcafe, drag my wife out there, out of the cafe. The police were standing therejust looking, because they themselves they did not like me in Brandfort of theprevious cases I had with them. And then I asked them, "Is them no way of helpingme put the flames away?" They said, "Ons kan nie jou help nie, Mnr Phehlani.Jy wiet ... Afrikaans ..." so my cafe have to burn to ashes. My wife was rightinside there, she was stabbed with a knife, burnt in the cafe. That's what happenedthat night.

MR LYSTER: And, Mr Phehlani, was your son - your son was also attacked,I understand, is that correct?

WITNESS: My son was busy delivering the passengersfrom the station.

MR LYSTER: You said in your statement that your young son, Patrick, wasalso ... (intervention)

WITNESS: My young son, Patrick, they were all sitting inthe cafe with my wife there, they were three in the cafe when I left there,and he was the only person I find there. We dragged him out of the cafe there,we find that he has got about eight stab holes on him. He couldn't speak, hewas very weak that evening.

MR LYSTER: Now, according to your statement there was a court case afterthis incident.

WITNESS: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: And certain people were convicted for this attack.

WITNESS: Therewere actually eight of them were.

MR LYSTER: And who were they? Don't mention their names. Were they from- what grouping within the township were they from?

WITNESS: Well, they said theywere the youths of the ANC.

MR LYSTER: Now, just to correct a couple of things. You and your wifeat that stage were member of the Municipal Council of - is the name of the councilMajemasu.

WITNESS: Majemasu, that's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: Which is a township of Brandfort.

WITNESS: You are correct.

MR LYSTER: And you also said in your statement that the ANC Youth Leaguein that area regarded you as a sell-out because you and your wife had joinedthe Council, is that correct?

WITNESS: You are right, Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: Mr Phehlani, does the - what is the name of the group, theEagles or the Three Million Gang, mean to you?

WITNESS: We did not have that ThreeMillion at Brandfort. We had the Eagles and those who were calling themselvesthe ANC Youths. The Three Millions were the guys from Kroonstad, not in Brandfort.

MR LYSTER: So the Eagles were a group within the township that you wereliving?

WITNESS: The Eagles was another movement which was run by the Government,because it seems to me it was sponsored by the Government by that time, notthe local people. And then we had some young youths, or youngsters, who werethe members of the so-called Eagles, but actually it was the movement of theGovernment.

MR LYSTER: And what contact did you have with that movement, the Eagles?--- Well, I did not have any contact with it because it was something of theyouths. I was not interested to join with youths.

MR LYSTER: So you know nothing about the Eagles in that township? ---The Eagles were there, but it's a movement which was run by the youngsters fromthe area, and then it was sponsored by the Government as I am saying.

MR LYSTER: And what did they used to do, the Eagles?

WITNESS: Well, they usedto have some functions, take these other guys, you know, for picnics and soforth.

MR LYSTER: As far as you know were they involved in any violent incidents?--- Yes, at times they were, because the anti- Comrades they were also fightingthose eagles, and then the scholars, who they were also fighting these Eagles.Because in the long run they thought that just another body of the Government,you know, to ... (incomplete)

MR LYSTER: Now, after this incident, this tragic incident in which yourwife was killed and your shop was burnt down, did you remain in that townshipor did you leave?

WITNESS: Yes, I am still in the township, I am still living there.

MR LYSTER: And people who were convicted of that, are they still servingprison sentences?

WITNESS: It's only one of them that is serving a prison sentence,because the others were sentenced for malicious damage to property, and thenthey were sent for two years in gaol, then with some suspended sentences, andthen they are back again with me in the township. I do see them daily, and weare always having clashes with them.

MR LYSTER: And your son, Patrick, has he suffered as a result of thatattack?

WITNESS: Yes, he's suffering from brain troubles and so forth, you know.

MR LYSTER: How old is he presently?

WITNESS: He is born in 1978.

MR LYSTER: So he was 11 years old at the time of the attack.

WITNESS: You arecorrect, Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: So he's a teenager now.

WITNESS: He's a teenager.

MR LYSTER: Did you resign from the Council after this attack on your house?--- No, I did not resign.

MR LYSTER: So did you continue to be a councillor until it was dissolved?--- Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: And are you still running a business in that township? Didyou rebuild your business?

WITNESS: Well, I am trying to run a business there, butit's very poor because now I am financially embarrassed. Everything is burneddown, and no money. The money was also burnt out in the shop there.

MR LYSTER: Mr Phehlani, thank you very much for coming to us today totell your story. It's a very sad story. I am going to ask the Chairman to takeover to see whether there are any other questions other Commissioners wouldlike to ask.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson. Mr Phehlani, I wasn'tclear on your wife's political activities. Perhaps you could just give us someindication of what her political allegiances were, or whether she was involvedpolitically at all, or so on.

WITNESS: Well, during that specific ... (intervention)