Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-01

ADV VISSER: Mr Chairman may I be permitted to call Brigadier Coetsee.  You will find his evidence in your folder, B, at page 20.  I take it Mr Chairman that in view of the fact that the victims might wish to put questions, as I understood the position to be, to these witnesses they can't be excused until we adjourn the application.  I'm not pressurising you, there hasn't been a request but there may be one.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I don't exactly know what that means actually because normally, and that's why we have the leader of evidence, normally he would consult with them and then the leader of evidence would put questions on their behalf.  But I suppose we will discuss that with Mr Black. Normally people don't, I mean as I say, they consult with the leader of evidence, that's what he's there for, put questions on their behalf,

ADV VISSER: If a request is directed, we will convey it to you Mr Chairman but at this stage we take it that everybody must remain in attendance.

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: (sworn states)

ADV VISSER: Mr Coetsee, you're a Coetsee with an s?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: That is correct yes.

ADV VISSER: Do you have a copy of your amnesty application and of Mr Erwee's application in front of you?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Correct.

ADV VISSER: And you ask for permission to refer to that to refresh your memory?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: That's correct, yes.

ADV VISSER: What is your rank?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I retired from the service as a brigadier.

ADV VISSER: So can we address you as Sir?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes you're welcome.

ADV VISSER: Could you sketch your police career for the Committee as it appears on page 22 or page 43?

ADV DE JAGER: I think he can perhaps just confirm it.

ADV VISSER: Could you then just confirm that the facts as set out on pages 22 and 23 are correct and contain the crux of your police career?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes.

ADV VISSER: You read it and it is correct?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes that is how it appears in my application on pages 1 and 2.

ADV VISSER: In 1986, what was your position in the Police at that stage, where were you, where were you stationed and what was your rank?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I was attached to the security branch of the police station in Pietersburg and I was second in command of the division in Northern Transvaal.

ADV VISSER: And how long did you spend in Pietersburg?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I was transferred to Pietersburg in 1973 and I was here until the end of 1988.

ADV VISSER: So it was 15 years.

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes it was more-or-less 15 years.

ADV VISSER: You were present in the audience when Colonel van der Merwe testified this morning?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes that's correct.

ADV VISSER: And I assume that you heard what he was testifying about, the general situation of unrest which prevailed in the Far Northern Transvaal as he described it and the borders as he described it, do you agree with him in principle?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes it's correct.

ADV VISSER: And is the situation such that although there were incidents it was also your impression that this area wasn't perhaps such a flash-point area as some of the other areas in South Africa in 1986?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I think we were fortunate in that aspect that that was indeed the case, yes.

ADV VISSER: Can you sketch the position for the Committee relating to intelligence gathering and making use of informers, firstly the importance of it and secondly more specifically relating to this particular incident? Could you sketch the background?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes our activities were aimed at gathering information and in the process we made use of informers. Some were used only occasionally, they would convey information to you on a specific occasion and then we would have registered informers who provided us with information on a regular basis.

ADV VISSER: In your division and under your command there was a Koos van den Berg.

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Correct.

ADV VISSER: And in 1986 what was his rank, can you remember?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: If I remember correctly it was warrant officer.

ADV VISSER: And also a person by the name of Matthew Sehlwana?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Correct.

ADV VISSER: Now could you tell us what you know about the run-up to this incident.  How did the information first arise?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Koos van den Berg and Matthew Sehlwana served under my direct command. I was actually their father as far as their work was concerned, and I think it was the beginning of May that they came to me with information indicating that they'd extracted information form an informer in Botswana which indicated that there were three people who were intending to infiltrate the country.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Coetsee you said they came to me. Could you please help us here, did they both come to you, were they there at the same time, did they come to you one by one, because there is a dispute in this regard about whether they came to you simultaneously or who was present and at what stage, so could you please mention them by name?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I apologise Chairperson, I can't tell you that they both came to me, that they were in my presence simultaneously, I referred to Matthews and van den Berg, it might be that they came to me separately but that they both came to me, that is true.

ADV VISSER: And you said that the information conveyed to you was that there were three people who were intending to infiltrate the country?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes.

ADV VISSER: Did you know where the information was obtained from?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Yes they told me this was information that they'd extracted from an informer in Botswana.

ADV VISSER: Now the informer, was Matthew this informer's handler or was Koos van den Berg the informer's handler or were they jointly the handlers of the informer?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: They were jointly this person's handler.

ADV VISSER: Very well, continue.

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: The information, as I said, indicated that there were three people who were intending to infiltrate the country and that they were looking for transport. And with this information at our disposal, when I say we, I mean Koos van den Berg, myself and Colonel Willem van der Merwe, we consulted and discussed the matter and we decided that we would provide the transport to bring these people in. Matthews Sehlwana would act as the driver of the vehicle.

ADV VISSER: What kind of vehicle was it which you had in mind, initially?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: It was a Toyota sedan, if I remember correctly it was a 1.3, it was a small car.

ADV VISSER: Can you remember the colour?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: I think it was a biscuit coloured vehicle, brownish.

ADV VISSER: Not that it's important but continue.

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: We discussed the possibility of monitoring these people upon their entry into the Republic to the point where they were to stay over so that we could also trace their sympathisers or safe-houses and identify those.

ADV VISSER: Was that regarded by yourself as part of the campaign to obtain information in order to control the situation in the country?

NICHOLAS STEPHANUS COETSEE: Correct, yes.

ADV VISSER: Now that was in May. What happened afterwards?  Were you then notified that the people were intending to enter at a particular stage?  Take it from there.