Special Hearings — Health Sector Hearings — 1997-06-18

DR PRETORIUS: Yes Madam Chair I would gladly deal with the questions asked by the Commission and supply the information as is available, although one realises it might be difficult to get it out of the fragmented system and a lot of that has disappeared, but nevertheless we will try and provide what is available and put it into the necessary context.
 I think it's also in the report that I have given was during the period prior to our elections, but if we do not get an opportunity to unpack what has been done subsequently in terms of the restructuring of the entire system, the development of new policies and pieces of legislation, that comes out of the considerations and the experience from the people whom we have heard were part of those that were disadvantaged and affected by the system.  So that we have a lot already that we can be proud of, but we are not complacent about that.  But the picture is a bit distorted and even the composition of our panel that the structure of the Department, the changes that took place there is well known in terms of gender issues as well as the issue, racial representation.  
 And that presently we are operating in the Department getting the input and the benefit and contribution and the value added from all of the people present in the Department.  And that I must say it is nice working in a Department where there is so much openness and honesty as well as criticism.  A lot of what's been done comes out of the bottom drawers of people working in the system but it was put on the table and what was good was accepted and what was not good was taken away.  So it's a process of contribution and if you've got something to add and you can justify and you've got the facts to prove it it's accepted.  If it's not accepted it's thrown out.  Melvyn!

MELVYN FREEMAN: I think my comments are very similar.  A white paper has just come out from the Health Department in which the whole restructuring of the Department is contained.  There are also a number of policies which have either been accepted or are in the process of being accepted through various structures for the transformation of the health sector and I think that they need to be read to see the kind of movement that is happening in the Health Department and yes, as Dr Pretorius said, we were reflecting on a specific period which we were asked to comment on.
 The second thing that I wanted to say is that we can develop some of these guidelines and frameworks for what to do with district surgeons or whether we should go back to the past or just look to the future, but I think our intention has always been that we would like to do it together with the Truth Commission so that it shouldn't be us going back, doing it, coming to you and then comparing notes.  I think that we would rather like to look at the issues together and see where we should be going, and I think that's why the next session is so important for us.   I think this is a bit overwhelming for us to have all these questions bombarded at us, and I think that I personally take some exception to being equated with the submission from the Medical Services last night because I think that we really have attempted to examine that past and to look at what has gone wrong and to apologise where we have seen that things have gone wrong.  So that's just a personal view of the facts.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: You need to listen very carefully, you were not equated to SAMS.  I said I will approach my questions somewhat the same way that I approached it.  I hope you understand that.
 Let me say that the Truth Commission, particularly the Committee on Reparation and Rehabilitation is making a commitment to work with you, but remember that in December we are gone, and so we have a very, very short shelf life, and whatever needs to be done in consultation with the Truth Commission is short-lived, however, we hope that out of this conference will come out some kind of task force that will be a continuation of the issues that are raised through the Truth Commission process to work with the Department on a long term basis.  Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: In thanking you I would just like to reiterate some of the issues that have been raised by Dr Ramashala.  For us these questions are serious, especially when dealing with the public structures like ministries.  Some of the questions, we live with this contradiction all the time.  When we meet with representatives of ministries we get this message that we have done so well, we have these grand plans on our table, but at the same time, at this point in time we have got about 10,000 statements, people who have come forward who really we have nowhere to refer.  A significant number of people have died who have come before the Commission who couldn't get help because they are living in areas where the quality of health care is still disgusting.   When it comes to mental health care it's difficult to describe what we are faced with on a daily basis.  We have met with MEC's, we run around looking at the percentage of the crippled nation that is living with us up to today.  So much as we accept that ministries have come up with grand plans, but the reality that we are confronted with on a daily basis it talks to the opposite.
 So in thanking you I will really appreciate and thank you for making a commitment, and we will appreciate to get the responses to the questions that have been raised and to continue a dialogue.  Thank you very much.

DR PRETORIUS: Thank you to the Commission, thank you very much again from our side, for the opportunity and we are also serious about this.  But it's important that one needs a proper plan before you can start implementing it, so that we are in that phase where we are developing the plans to make sure that when we operationalise it, it will be proper and it will be in line with the thinking of the government of the day.  Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you.   At this point in time I would like to thank my colleagues.  Glenda will read out a few messages first and then Dr Orr will thank all the relevant people who have facilitated this, but before I hand over the Chair I would like to personally thank Dr Orr for working tirelessly on this project and making the process to be where it is today.  To you I would like to really say thank you very much on behalf of the Commission.  Thank you.
 And then after Glenda has read out the letters of support Dr Orr will then thank everybody.  Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Hlengiwe.  We have received, as Wendy said yesterday, many letters of support.  I am not going to read verbatim what these letters of support are, except to tell you where they are from and then also just to tell you the gist of what is contained in these letters of support.
 We have a letter of support from the Human Sciences Research Council.  From the South African Institute for Medical Research.  From the TRC and Gender Group that is coordinated by Beth Goldblatt.  From the South African Pharmacy Council and from the University of Zululand.  All of them say something similar to this.
"Be assured of our full commitment to helping and healing of all concerned in this process and the prevention of human rights abuses in the future".
And also many people congratulate us on having a hearing which focuses on the health sector.
 Thank you very much.