Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MR MOTLALE: It was Boxing Day in 1976, and it was late, I think.  Ja, and... it was dark on that day and I was in the house at NY50 no 6.  While I was in the house, I heard a loud sound, a loud noise coming from outside. It sounded like people.  I heard that the people outside were making this noise. I heard a loud banging on the door. Somebody was knocking.
     When I opened the door, somebody said, "You're  still opening the door, let's go".  And we - and we found that it was the late Henry. I asked, "Where are we going?". I was told, "Let's go to - to the battle".  We were told that everybody must just go. All young men must go. It's only women and old men that must be left behind.
     We were all told to go to the battle.  We were told that we should go and block NY78 because we were told that the " wit doek" people would be coming from Section 4.  They were coming to Guguletu and they were going to destroy all of us here at Gucks.  So we were now about to protect ourselves.  We went to - through NY57. Before we could come to the corner of NY54, we saw this car coming, but we couldn't - we couldn't see how many people were inside.
     One of us saw one of these people and when this car got to the corner,  he  went to these people and he asked, "What is going on now?".  It turned out to be the police who were in this car.  They said, "Oh, no! We are not here to fight. We are just here to protect you, because we know that there are people who are coming to beat you.
Now this is why we are here to protect you".  And then they said, "Is that true?". We said, "Yes". Then they said, "Okay, it's all right".  So they went through NY78. We came through 78. Now, we were about to block the road just to see, now, from where these people were going to approach us.  Now, while we were still standing there, when we looked further down there at NY78, we could see that there was a car coming. It's lights and everything were on. We could see that the car was coming.  Just in front of this car there was a Valiant, a red Valiant.
     This Valiant was leading. Now, we were also a big group and in front of us there was the youth [indistinct] shouted and they said, "There is a car coming over there".  But we told ourselves that we were not there to fight. We were not going to fight with the police at all. We just wanted to find out about these people who wanted to come and beat us up. We wanted to find out, really, what was going to happen.
     We were not even - we were not armed on that day, because our - our children just took us out of our houses. So we didn't even have a chance.  Somebody said, "no,no... don't run away. Don't run away... aah, don't run away, you kidding!".  When they came closer, they just came - they came right at the centre, they actually spread us out so that they could be able to see us from all angles.
 While we were...watching all that, and we were just waiting for the [indistinct] to come and approach us, the [indistinct] was saying quite a lot that they switched off the lights.   end of Tape 11, side B ... ... All this time we were... Henry, what happened, I think, is that I just left him just for a short distance.  The shots were going on during this whole period. I heard him saying, "Hey, they shot me".
     While I was trying to look at him, I just wanted to find out what was going on, when I saw this. I could not stand it and so I ran.  Now, while I was running, I didn't know who was running behind my back.  I could - I could see that I was not alone. There was somebody chasing me, but I just told myself I was going to run. I was not going to get a chance to look at him.  I saw this fence in front of me and I jumped over it.   My persuer also jumped over this fence and then I saw an old-old truck. I think it's still there, that truck, and there were also dogs in the same yard.
 When these dogs were barking, we went under the truck.  And we looked - we looked at the gate and then we thought the best thing is to go through the gate.  I looked back. I saw this person who was running behind me. It was my elder brother. I said, "Hey, brother. Hey, let's go. Let's run".  There was no time to catch our breath. We saw "boers" coming.   I could only see their feet.  I heard one saying,  "Where are the stupid people?".  He said - I can't remember the name that he called- "They went through that gate", and there was another car coming over to pick them up on that side.
 My elder brother said to me,"Just wait - just wait-wait-wait.  You go your way, I'll go my way.  I'll meet you at the house.  Now, we were just trying to survive.  And that's how we did this.  From there we split. I ran further alongside  the fence.
 While I was running, I thought we were in a big mess. I didn't even know what was going on there.  I was very scared. I didn't know what was happening because Henry came to wake me up. I wasn't even sure what was going on then.  He told me that somebody had been shot. The following morning I didn't even have an idea that somebody had been shot.  I didn't even know anything about Henry.  There were other people checking other people out.  And I just - and I just thought these people who were shooting other people were there among us.  I couldn't say anything to anybody, to anyone. I didn't trust anyone.  So, I just kept quiet. I was not going to say anything.  What was in my mind was that these boers were torturing us.
 There were so many things that happened to me in the past, the first time was in Bloemfontein, but now in Cape Town it's getting worse.  Even now I am speaking Afrikaans sometimes. I understand it these days.  I couldn't tell this poor woman next to me what happened to her husband.  I simply couldn't tell her, I saw - I saw the sadness in their - in the children's eyes, but I couldn't tell them anything still.
 Her husband was my best friend. We were together in the Drummer School at Santos. I was in the sports - we were doing boxing together. We were never worried too much about politics.  That's the time, now ,I thought... if she wants to know about her husband, she has to do it herself.  Even now, for me to be here, I didn't wish to be here.  After 20 years of not getting information, I don't know what to do and I don't want anything.

ADV POTGIETER: Well, we are grateful that you are here and that you are telling us what happened, what you - what you know.  Just - just one or two questions to clarify what you had said.  Mr Motlale.  After you heard Henry saying that he was shot, you didn't see him again is that correct?

MR MOTLALE: I wanted to go and see where he was shot, but there were boers all over. [indistinct] I thought no, I could never be able to stand this. I thought, ag, we'll see each other somewhere ahead.  What were this called - they were pellets. Many people got hurt there, they really got injured in those 1978 riots. There were too many of them.
 But now I am actually surprised that it is only Masomba that we are talking about here. There were so many people there at Guguletu.  Even the people that we are talking about here we'll never see again and even the people who hurt our people, who killed our people... there is nothing that we are going to do to them. I didn't even know these boers- especially those who were riding that red Valiant.
 Though - even if they could show me in my dreams... No, but I know that there is something that I have to do.  Thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mr Motlale, thank you Chairperson.