Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-21

MR VISSER: I see, okay.  Again, I can't argue with you because we didn't make notes and I have a notoriously bad memory, so I will have to accept what you say.

MR LAX: Can I just for the record say, Mrs Miller wasn't working for the Truth Commission at that time we did the inspection in loco at all.

MR VISSER: Yes, accept I believe she was present.

STEPHANIE MILLER: I was present.

MR LAX: Yes, no, but I'm just saying she wasn't officially there, she wasn't there in an official capacity anyway.

MR VISSER: Yes, alright.  No, I'm not making anything of it, Mr Chairman.
	Please turn to page 66A, Mrs Miller, of bundle 2.  66A, Chairperson.  This appears to be an extract from an occurrence book, would you agree with me if you look at 66B?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, it does seem to be.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Would this be the entry that you are referring to which came from the police docket, or are you referring to another entry regarding to where the deceased, or that body was found?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Unfortunately mine is very ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: If you look at the entry that's time 11H50, I think that is the relevant ...

STEPHANIE MILLER: Well mine is a very bad copy, but this looks to be the same.

MR VISSER: Yes, yes.  As far as we could decipher it, it reads
"Female TG ..."
and then it can be anything - Gwala.

MR LAX: It's BM in fact, black male.  That would have been the police shorthand.

MR VISSER: Oh I see, I read FM.   Okay, BM, black male.
"... Gwala of 514 B Extension in ..."
...(intervention)

STEPHANIE MILLER: Inanda.

CHAIRPERSON: It does look like Inango.
MR VISSER
"... Inango, reports at charge office that there is a decomposed body lying near Inanda block yard D ..."
I don't know D block, D or, I'm not quite sure what that word is, the best I can do is block, but it doesn't make sense.

MR LAX: It does make sense.

MR VISSER: Does it?

MR LAX: It would have been a place where they made blocks for building works.

MR VISSER: Blocks, ja, not a brickyard for example?  I don't know.

MR LAX: Well the same as a brickyard.

MR VISSER: Alright, thank you.
		"... yard in Inanda"
then it says:
"Newtown"
and then I'm afraid I can't read the next two words.

CHAIRPERSON: I can't either, it's something
"I sent out ..."
or
"I sent (something) Detective Sgt Mthembu was informed."
or something like that.

MR VISSER: Yes, that would make sense, Chairperson.
"... gone to Sgt Mthembu"
Yes.
CHAIRPERSON
"... was informed."

MR VISSER: Yes.
	You say that's probably the one that you're referring to?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, that is the one I'm referring to.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Now in that vicinity which you went to familiarise yourself with, were there other houses?

STEPHANIE MILLER: If I can explain what the area is like, there's a river running through at the base of a valley, so the river is on the side closest - there's a river in the valley and then there would have been a brickyard next to the river, then there would have been those houses that were there in 1987.  What is there today is a river and a school and the houses that were in that vicinity had been rebuilt further up the hill.

MR VISSER: Yes, can we confine ourselves to what the position in 1987 was.

STEPHANIE MILLER: In 1987 there's a river running through it with a brickyard and the houses would have been in fairly close proximity to the brickyard, but not directly next to the brickyard.

MR VISSER: Not directly adjoining but fairly close?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Fairly close.

MR VISSER: Alright, well perhaps we'll have to go out and look again.  And you assumed that a body having been found there, would have been taken to Verulam?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I didn't assume anything, I noted that this record matched the other record.  They cross-matched.

MR VISSER: Yes, but you see ...(intervention)

STEPHANIE MILLER: The one is referred to by the other.

MR VISSER: ... we come back to the question that Commissioner Lax asked you, as to why only the records of Verulam ...(indistinct) and not for example, of Gale Street?  You would not have expected a body found there to have been taken to Gale Street, or was it ...(intervention)

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's correct, I would not.

MR VISSER: ... was it possible?

STEPHANIE MILLER: To the best of my knowledge it wasn't possible, it was out of the area.  The areas were defined - the jurisdiction of this mortuary was defined.

MR VISSER: You see I've heard in many, or at least in some criminal cases that sometimes mortuaries are full and bodies are referred to other mortuaries.  That's a possibility, isn't it?

STEPHANIE MILLER: If the mortuary was full I supposed it would have been a possibility.

MR VISSER: Yes, so that's the point, it's possible that a body found there could have been referred to another mortuary.  I'm not talking about this particular one, any body.  It's possible.

STEPHANIE MILLER: I have no experience of that, but it's possible.

MR VISSER: Let us just come to the exhumation then, you stated that you motivated an exhumation, I'm not sure whether I understood that evidence correctly, but wasn't it Mr Lister who actually motivated the exhumation?  If you look at page 82B of bundle 2.

STEPHANIE MILLER: I had to motivate to my departmental head, who in turn referred me to Mr Lister and I would have to motivate my case strongly enough to Mr Lister, for him to have done what he did.

MR VISSER: I see.  So what he said at page 82B, was really what he heard from you, or did he make his own investigations and enquiries?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I was the Investigator, I had to present the findings of my investigation and on which he would base his decision.

MR VISSER: Did he inspect records at the mortuary at Phoenix?

STEPHANIE MILLER: No.

CHAIRPERSON: This affidavit that appears on page 82B and C, the contents of that he would have got from you?

STEPHANIE MILLER: He would have.  I would have examined the mortuary records, I would have taken a copy, presented them to him, motivated towards the justification of this specific body being the right body in order for him to support me in the exhumation.

MR VISSER: Yes.  You see I'm not sure whether your recollection is correct, because in paragraph 3 Mr Lister is recorded here to have said
"I have ascertained from the mortuary records of Phoenix, that the body of Ms Kubheka was picked up by the Inanda SAP on the 15th of July 1987."

STEPHANIE MILLER: Mr Visser, there's no conflict, I presented him with the evidence for him to draw that conclusion.

MR VISSER: I asked you whether he looked at the records and you said no.

STEPHANIE MILLER: No, he did not go to Phoenix to look at the mortuary records.

MR VISSER: No, no, I didn't ask you that, I asked you whether he looked at the records.

STEPHANIE MILLER: Oh he looked at the records.  I presented the records to him.

MR VISSER: I see, alright.  Once you had isolated this particular person that we are referring to now, or the remains of this particular person, did you then - and I'm talking from the records, did you then draw the post-mortem reports?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes.

MR VISSER: Can you please tell this Committee how many post-mortem reports did you in fact draw in order to narrow it down to Case 580?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I cannot recall how many I drew.

MR VISSER: Can you identify on your Exhibit K1, in which cases - or, let me make it simple, can you at least tell us whether you drew post-mortem reports in other case numbers, other than the ones that you mention on K1?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, I did.

MR VISSER: And you found all of them to be compatible?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Exactly.

MR VISSER: Then at some stage you discovered that the body which was referred to in the police docket to have been found where you told us, was buried in a pauper's grave, what is the process that you followed to establish that fact and in indeed, which pauper's grave?