Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-20

ADV NTSEBEZA: Please keep this document.  Mr Joyi what would you like the Commission to do if you could make an appeal.

MR JOYI: Firstly, I do not know what would the others say.  I would like to get my mealies, my horse, my cattle.  All these are my important belongings and property.  We have not quarrelled with Dalunga.  He is my brother, he is my son in actual fact.  Probably, if he did not take us to those areas we could be dead by now.  At least we benefitted for being there.  It seems that it was a blessing in disguise.  We had a lot of experience.  He did not realise that we profited
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and benefited a lot.  He did not realise that he was giving us some blessing.  ... would be very glad.  The most important thing that I realised as the most crucial is that I should obtain a bursary.  This bursary would not be enjoyed by my children only.  I think this should be offered for the whole nation.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Okay, we might consider what you are asking for.  Can we get from Lucy Tebikwane.

MR TEBIKWANE: No, she is Loli.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Okay, we would like to find out what would he like us to do for him.  Please get closer to the microphone so that we can hear what you want to say.  Yes Sir, your house was also destroyed.  Is that not so, in 1980?

MR TEBIKWANE: Yes, it is so.  It was also destroyed.  The other day when we were here I mentioned that you know Mr Nsibesa that our houses were demolished.  Those were big houses because they knew that we would be mostly affected by what they would do if they destroy our houses.  That is why it is difficult for me to say I would forgive those who have done this to me.  For seven years Joyi Zwiledumelie was ploughing and enjoying the mielies, for seven years, the produce from my fields.
 Secondly, when my wife died I took money for her burial, but he sent his son to me and said I must just take my wife, put her on my shoulder, but I said to him if, just tell him that if he can come and say that on his own, I would kill him.  My children were mostly affected.  I said to my children please take the money and go and bury my wife.  I am worried because my wife was not buried at my original place.  She died and on exile and she was buried on exile.  I do not think I can ask for anything.  I cannot 
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specify what I want because nothing can make up for what I have lost.  I was struggling to educate my children.  I was struggling all the time.  I had no financial means because of what they did to me.  I think the Commission should go, I am not educated, but I wanted my children to be educated.  I use to wake up very early in the morning so that I can provide for my children.  
 Can you imagine what it means for your brother to destroy your kraal, to destroy your house?  You can see that my place was in ruins.  That is why I will never forgive unless the Commission should go and visit what I am talking and see the place, visit what, the area and see how did I survive in that area.  I want the Commission to go to Mputi.  15 Of my cattle were taken.  It was also ordered that the people should destroy our fields.  It was also said that they should steal our cattle.  I was taken to Sakayna at Cofimvaba.  It was a very steep area and even if you would carry your bags of mielies, you would lose a lot because the place was very steep and you could not balance properly.  I want to tell the Government that we suffered a lot at Mputi, but nobody ever cared for us.  
 That is why we would like to thank the Commission.  We are very glad that we had an opportunity to come here.  Our human rights were violated by the previous Government.  Ntsebeza, you know our property was stolen.  Everything was taken away from us.  The police were always harassing us.  That you know very well.  You were harassed and humiliated and the previous Government was more of a pain in the neck than of benefit to the people.  I think it is better for somebody to kill you instead of torturing you.  It was terrible to experience what I experienced on that day.  You 
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know it was terrible to watch the police shooting and destroying everything which belonged to us.  I said if I could make for myself, I wished that I could say what I wanted to say at that time.  That is why I am so very glad now that I am having an opportunity to state what I am stating now.  So that my enemies could hear what I have experienced.  
 I want to say no material things can make up for what losses I have experienced.  We are in one house, we are overcrowded.  You can imagine because I had a big house.  There were so many rooms that could accommodate my whole family, but now I can state that we are just occupying one house with such a big family.  I insist, I will never forgive them.  I will never forgive them.  That is the end.  I do not want to waste your time Sir.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Mlandilie, what can you say?  Please come closer to the microphone.

MR MLANDILIE: What I can mention is that my younger brother died during that period because of those persecutions and the atrocities that we experienced.  I lost 16 cattle, 15 sheep.  My father died last year because he was always reviving what had happened to us.  My father Kengelele was also take away and was forcefully removed and taken to another area.  He suffered a long time after this and then the effects were that he died last year.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What would you like the Commission to do for you?

MR MLANDILIE: I would like to be assisted with my children so that they can be assisted at education.  If we can get a bursary for them.

ADV NTSEBEZA: I thank you very much.
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MR MLANDILIE: I have forgotten something because I became so emotional.  I have forgotten something about my wife.  My wife died due to apoplexy which is stroke.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Xhakalegusha.  Just press the microphone so that you can be heard.

MR XHAKALEGUSHA: When my house was demolished there was a policeman who came, he was Mona from Cofimvaba.  I had a great harvest and I harvested 106 bags of mielies.  I was taken to Cofimvaba at Sabane and the whole harvest was just thrown outside.  Everything which was said by Loli is true because what they use to do, they would put the mielies and your harvest on the truck, but as they travel along everything would be just destroyed and taken away from the truck.  When we reached Qamata they threw everything on the ground.  When this was taken back to the bags I realised that it was just less than 15.  I was given a house.  It was a very small house.
 The second day when I arrived here there was a hailstorm and the house was flooded.  When I came back, I want to be brief, I laid a charge about what happened to me.  A Chief Zweledumile came to my place because I was beginning to rebuild my house.  He came and asked why was I building and then I asked him why are you asking me that question.  He said because you were expelled from this area.  I also said to him you could have asked that question when I was chased away from this place.  I wanted to come together with those men that destroyed my place.  I reported that I was rebuilding my place.  I was arrested and I was taken back to Cofimvaba.  I still have those documents which have my sentence.