Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-07

MR NTSOERENG: I didn't know of any opposition from the 
community because I've already explained that we had 
regions.  Now in the region where I was the same region paid 
my fees to register because we were paying R250,00 as 
registration.

DR BORAINE: Could I ask you then why do you think your 
house was burnt down?

MR NTSOERENG: I think I have explained that on the 3rd 
people were killed and on the 4th, on the 5th my house was 
then burned, and I realised that the community was now angry 
and they decided to do the same thing even if they chose me.

DR BORAINE: So there was a very big argument about who 
should represent the community and who shouldn't.  Now you 
HRV/1046 mentioned/...
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mentioned that some of the councillors, probably only from 
the ruling party were given R5 000.

MR NTSOERENG: Yes I have already explained that Sir.

DR BORAINE: But you weren't given that because you were 
not the ruling party?

MR NTSOERENG: The people who did not receive the money was 
myself and Mr Musala, we were the leaders of the other two 
organisations.

DR BORAINE: Now you mentioned that the State President 
Fund in 1985 paid out some of the councillors for the loss 
of their houses, were you paid as well?

MR NTSOERENG: The State President's Fund paid everybody 
because a cheque was directed to a specific person.  That is 
the money that I have already explained that I used it to 
rebuild my house, that was then destroyed again.

DR BORAINE: How much was that?

MR NTSOERENG: It was R16 000.  That is why I managed to 
rebuild my house.  Sir I will explain that it was my house 
that I built myself, it wasn't the Municipal house.

DR BORAINE: But then you mentioned very briefly that your 
house was destroyed again in about 1989 or 1990, now why was 
that?

MR NTSOERENG: Sir, I won't tell you, I don't know the 
reasons because I was not a councillor anymore, but as I was 
not feeling well I was not here in the Vaal Triangle.  There 
were people staying in my house.

DR BORAINE: Now the house that you are staying in now, is 
that another house that you had to build or rent?

MR NTSOERENG: I had to go to the Unit, I went back to the 
Unit that I was given before.

DR BORAINE: And are you employed or unemployed at the 
HRV/1046 moment?/...
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moment?

MR NTSOERENG: I am unemployed Sir.  I am not working at 
this present moment.  I am just selling oranges and fruits.

DR BORAINE: Do any of your family live with you?

MR NTSOERENG: Yes Sir, this is my daughter, one of them.

DR BORAINE: You live together?

MR NTSOERENG: Yes Sir.

DR BORAINE: Do you receive any kind of pension at all?

MR NTSOERENG: I am not yet at the right age to get a 
pension.  I have a request Sir.

DR BORAINE: Please go ahead.

MR NTSOERENG: My request is that the files of the 
administration board have to be taken out and our council 
files have to be taken out as well so as to get the clear 
message that we are in this situation because of the 
administration board.  You will realise that the money that 
the people were paying were only helping the south part of 
the Free State, with the money from the Vaal area.  
Wittsieshoek area was built through the monies paid by the 
people of this community.

DR BORAINE: We have noted your request.  Is there anything 
else that you want to say to the Commission?

MR NTSOERENG: I don't have so many things to say Sir.  
That was the request.  Now my other request is I am in this 
kind of situation what can the Commission offer me so that I 
can be accepted by the community?

DR BORAINE: I think that one of the good and the positive 
things about these hearings is that it gives people an 
opportunity to tell their story and explain why they were 
doing one thing and not another, and hopefully that as one 
tells one's story so the community will begin to forgive and 
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to forget and to allow people to come back and to live 
normal lives.  But that of course is up to you and the 
community, and certainly it would be a real request from the 
Commission that people start healing one another and 
receiving one another because those times in the eighties 
were times of war and we must now make peace.  Thank you 
very much for coming.  I am going to hand back to the 
Chairperson in case anyone else wants to ask you questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Dr Boraine.

UNKNOWN: Mr Ntsoereng I just want to ask you to briefly 
explain to us why were the people boycotting rents?

MR NTSOERENG: As I have already explained people boycotted 
the rent because of many reasons.  You will understand that 
in the year that we were placed in power it was the same 
year of the Tricameral Parliament and the Black community 
was not happy at all about that Tricameral Parliament, that 
was the first reason.
 The second reason I can say the privatisation of liquor 
outlets was another issue that dissatisfied the community.
 The third thing we have to remember that when Sebokeng 
was formed Sebokeng was really expensive.  I still remember 
people were paying R8,50 rents and Sharpeville was only 
paying R3,50 a month, and Sharpeville was using the bucket 
system at that time.  They didn't have a sewerage system.  
Now it so happened that when the townships were put together 
people in Sebokeng they discovered that Sharpeville was 
actually developed through their expense and they were not 
satisfied.  And I have to say, we have to remember that even 
before our council came to power there was a community 
council and this council increased the rents two or three 
times a year, and they said after a few months we will add 
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a certain amount and after so many months we will add 
another amount and people were not satisfied at all.  I 
think those are the reasons why the people were not 
satisfied.

UNKNOWN: Now as a member of Bafutsane were you fighting 
for such things?

MR NTSOERENG: Remember I was from Zone 13 which was the 
first zone with no electricity.  It suffered a lot.  We must 
remember the administration board also started in Zone 13, 
they were staying in those houses.  Now the development of 
Sebokeng comes from the area called Zone 13. That was the 
area paying the highest rents.  All the zones are coming 
from this other zone.  That is why I emphasise that 
investigations should be made as to what happened to the 
monies, as to what happened to the money because we were 
made to understand that Sharpeville was helped actually by 
the monies from Sebokeng.  We have to understand how the 
(...indistinct) developed through our monies.

UNKNOWN: I thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera has a few questions.

DR RANDERA: Mr Ntsoereng I just want to understand that 
period a little better, what were you doing before you 
became a councillor?

MR NTSOERENG: I was a salesman.

DR RANDERA: And you said earlier on when you were speaking 
to Dr Boraine you said "my community harassed me but we 
asked for their permission before we became councillors", 
can you just tell us a little more what you mean by that?

MR NTSOERENG: When I say the community harassed me, my 
house was burnt and I had to leave the township, and that is 
the same community that trusted me at that time. 
HRV/1046

DR RANDERA: /...
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DR RANDERA: I know it's a long time ago, can you please 
just tell us there were, I understand there were some 
elections for these local councils how many people actually 
voted for those councils, what percentage of the population 
in your opinion?

MR NTSOERENG: I can't remember the percentages but what I 
can remember is the fact that in our region we had a LPP 
member and I had 1,400 votes and he only had 600 votes.  I 
am talking about the region here, not about the Vaal 
Triangle in general.