Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-29

MR HATTINGH: Well, on this page, if you could just read under (iv) where the heading is Nature and Particulars, the second line thereof is with 9 mm and then what follows there, I can't read that?

CHAIRPERSON: (Microphone not on)

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Then on page 146, anything that was incorrect there?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I concur with the contents here of.

MR HATTINGH: Page 147, if you can start from the top and indicate exactly which sentences are incorrect.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I concur with this page, should I say except where it is said he and his colleague.  Let me perhaps start here where it is said on the fourth occasion, he and his group attacked me and I shot him.
	I do not concur with this.

MR HATTINGH: Only that one sentence?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

MR HATTINGH: And on page 148?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I concur with that page as well?

MR HATTINGH: Page 149?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, I concur with this page as well.

MR HATTINGH: The signature that we see at the bottom of page 150, the name P.L.J. Shongwe, that is not your signature?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I am the one who signed here.

MR HATTINGH: When?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I do not remember the date, but I remember that I was with my Attorney Julie Mohammed and another black person whom I do not know.

MR HATTINGH: But that was not in the presence of Mr Radebe?

PELELE L SHONGWE: As I have stated, I was with my Attorney and another black person whom I do not know.  I won't know whether the person was Radebe or not.  I didn't know him.

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Hattingh, this black person you say you did not know, did you see him touching the forms and maybe writing anything on the forms?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, because he was in the company of Julie Mohammed.

ADV SANDI: What was he doing, what did he do with the forms or on the forms?

PELELE L SHONGWE: He had ball pens and he took the form as we were sitting down.  I think he must be the one who signed here under the Commissioner of Oath column, but yes, he did take the form.

MS VAN DER WALT: Maybe I can help you here, were you at Rooihuiskraal on that day in the presence of your Attorney and the other black gentleman?
	Do you know where Rooihuiskraal in Pretoria is?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Is it Hammanskraal?

ADV BOSMAN: No, Rooihuiskraal.  Were you in Pretoria the day when you were with your Attorney and the other black gentleman?

PELELE L SHONGWE: We went to Pretoria after having signed or after having concluded the filling of this form.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh, why is this such a big issue?  If it was wrongly attested, so what?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, that I will leave with you.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Shongwe, if we turn back to page 147, I repeatedly asked you what the problems were that you were experiencing with Bongani Malinga ...

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on, Mr Shongwe, that signature on page 149, is that yours above the word deponent?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you confirm that before us now that that is your signature and that you signed it?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR HATTINGH: I repeatedly asked you to tell this Committee what the problems were that you were having with Bongani Malinga, which led to your killing him.
	At no stage did you mention anything about four separate attacks by Black Cat groups of which he formed part of, on either you or your home.  Why, why did you elect not to mention anything of that kind?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Here I was explaining how I killed him.  I was not explaining about my attack or my being attacked and the attack on my family.  Given a chance, I would explain that, but now I was still explaining how I killed him.

MR HATTINGH: The fact that Bongani or that you were stabbed on four places during these attacks, that Bongani himself stabbed you in the hand, and on your lip on the fourth occasion, or just on your lip, not on the fourth occasion?   Was that also something which did not come into play in your reasons for killing Bongani?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I did explain earlier on that at the time when I was being attacked, there were others who were still alive and who are still alive.  If I had killed him for attacking me, I would have killed the others who are still alive today.
	I went as far as explaining that these others were present when I was being attacked, are people which animosity existed between me and them, is over.

MR HATTINGH: I put it to you in terms of my instructions received from the family, the mother of the deceased, that Bongani Malinga during 1993 at least, did not pose any threat to either the community or yourself or the political stability of the area.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I disagree with that.

MR HATTINGH: And on the day that he was killed by you, he was on his way to the shops and there was absolutely no reason for you to kill him.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I also disagree with that, because I killed him at our street, there is no shop on that street.

MR HATTINGH: On page 148 at the bottom, it is stated that you were prosecuted with Bongani Khaba.  To which incident does that refer?

PELELE L SHONGWE: What page?

MR HATTINGH: Page 148.

CHAIRPERSON: For which case did you go to court and you were acquitted?  Mr Shongwe, carry on.

PELELE L SHONGWE: On the very same offence, Bongani Khaba and myself took the witness stand, and it was indicated that we were not guilty, we should step down.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, was that the Malinga matter, when Malinga was the deceased?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Are you referring to Bongani, I do not quite understand, will you please repeat.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, the case in which you took the stand and you were finally acquitted, was that in respect of Bongani Malinga's death?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

MR HATTINGH: Were you prosecuted with Bongani Khaba for that case?

PELELE L SHONGWE: As I have explained before, we took the witness stand and it was indicated that this case did not have sufficient evidence and therefore we should go home.  Nobody asked me any question, be it the Magistrate or the Prosecutor, no question was directed to me.

MR HATTINGH: At that criminal trial, on the charge of murder of one Bongani Malinga, did you take the oath to testify?

PELELE L SHONGWE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe, I think it is Section 176 of the Criminal Procedure Act, isn't it, 174 the acquittal after the State's case.
	I don't know where that is getting us to, whether he testified in the matter or not?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Shongwe, I just further wish to put it to you that the person Bongi Mkhwanazi who was with Bongani Malinga on the day that you killed Bongani Malinga, was to testify at the criminal trial, but he too was murdered on the day before the commencement of the criminal trial.  Do you know anything about that?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Is that a comment or a question?

MR PATEL: Mr Chairman, I ...

CHAIRPERSON: Wait, wait, I am going to have to warn him.  Mr Shongwe, that is a matter that may, the answer which may incriminate you.  You are not compelled to answer that question - if you don't feel like answering that question, you don't have to.  Do you understand?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, I do understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Because that witness that is referred to as having been killed, it is not a matter that is being discussed in this hearing.  Understand?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, I do understand Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your choice?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I would prefer that Mr Hattingh ask me about the death of Bongani Malinga.  I don't know anything about the death of the other one.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman, no further questions.

MR HATTINGH: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you sir.  Mr Shongwe, why did you kill Ernest Malele?