Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR MSHE: Mr Chairman, the next move will be the matter of Sizwe Khondile.  I don't know if the Committee wants us to proceed direct, it's now 25 to one, but we could do a lot by doing so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

MR MSHE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

MR MSHE: Then I'll hand over to my learned friend.

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, may I be excused from further proceedings then?

CHAIRPERSON: You are excused from further attendance.  Thanks very much for your assistance up to now, and, if it transpires for reasons beyond our control that you may not be appearing again, we shall look forward to any written
submissions you may wish to make which we might find useful.
/MR MARAIS

MR MARAIS: Yes, Mr Chairman, I will do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen?

MR JANSEN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.   Mr Chairman, I then wish to call Mr Coetzee again to testify in respect of the Khondile matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Where will we find this in the application form?

MR JANSEN: In the manuscript, Evidence Book No 1, it's on page 73, paragraph 5.4.8.3, and in the application before the Committee it is Matter No ... (intervention)

MR MSHE: Page 10.  Page 10 of the application.

MR JANSEN: Yes.

MR MSHE: And page 6 of the typed.

WILSON J: Matter No 3.

MR JANSEN: Yes, matter No 3.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes, you may call your witness, call the applicant.

MR JANSEN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: /DIRK JOHANNES

MR JANSEN: DIRK JOHANNES COETZEE   (Still under former oath)

MR JANSEN: QUESTIONED BY MR JANSEN

MR JANSEN: Mr Coetzee, in your manuscript you refer to Mr Sizwe Khondile as a Security Police detainee whose name you didn't know at the time, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: When did you hear the name Sizwe Khondile, or when were you told that one of the stories that you are relaying relates to a person called Sizwe Khondile?

WITNESS:  Only when I was in exile after I left the country in November '89 with the African National Congress, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: How as your story connected with the name of Sizwe Khondile by the ANC?

WITNESS:   By the fact that the car that he was driving was a Datsun Stanza that belonged to the later Chris Hani, and that he was arrested coming from Swaziland - ag, from Lesotho into South Africa.

MR JANSEN: In the car of Mr Hani?

WITNESS:   In the car of Mr Chris Hani.

MR JANSEN: And where did this car of Mr Hani fit into the - or this Datsun that you describe, where did that fit into the story that you were telling the ANC at the time?

WITNESS:   I saw the car parked in a police garage on the Jeffreys Bay Police Station premises, in a police garage after we have parked the car there of some so-called activist which we've stolen, an Audi 80.

MR JANSEN: When was that?

WITNESS:   It was September the 13th, I think.  It was confirmed later that the specific car was stolen in 1981.

MR JANSEN: And were you told something about this car, and if so by whom?

WITNESS:   I was with at this stage Colonel Nick

MR JANSEN: /van Rensburg,

MR JANSEN: van Rensburg, who was then based - the former one from Ermelo Security Branch, who was then based in Port Elizabeth.

MR JANSEN: What was his position in Port Elizabeth?

WITNESS:   He was third senior in rank.  I don't know exactly whether he was branch commander, or fitted in the regional structure of the regional office, Eastern Province.  I accept branch commander.

MR JANSEN: Continue.

WITNESS:   On his request I was supplied with a key and stole this Audi, which we took then to the Jeffreys Bay Police Station and parked in a garage there.  He opened one of the adjoining garages and there was a Datsun Stanza car parked.  After that he closed the garage and we walked in behind the charge office of the Jeffreys Bay Police Station.  On ground level was the so-called white single quarters.  When he opened the door there were two people, black men, males, one handcuffed to the bed, and the other one sitting on the bed opposite, which I identified as a Security Policeman.  He just questioned whether everything was still okay and then we left.

MR JANSEN: Yes, and did you ever hear again of this detainee which you saw?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did, Mr Chairman, when they brought him up to Komatipoort Border, about 10 kilometres from Komatipoort on the Komatipoort Border Gate road, where I met up with Colonel Nick van Rensburg, Captain Herman du Plessis, at the time - also from Port Elizabeth - a Sergeant Jan,and I think his surname was Raath, and this same man with a Balaclava on, handcuffed.

MR JANSEN: Before you get to the Komatipoort incident, to return to Port Elizabeth, were you told anything about this detainee at the time?

WITNESS:   I was.  I slept at the

MR JANSEN: /time in

MR JANSEN: time in the house of Colonel Nick van Rensburg whilst operating in that area, and on our way back from Jeffreys Bay Police Station he said that at a time they would have to make a plan with this man that I've just seen, because during interrogation he dived through a window with his hands handcuffed behind his back in an effort to get away from his interrogators, and sustained brain injuries.  Now, I could not - it wasn't a question of seeing a man with plasters and stitches all over him.  To me he looked quite normal, but apparently by the people that knew him well his behaviour became peculiar.  He told me that they called in a doctor's friend, who warned them that there was some blood on the brain as a result of him falling on his head, and if they want to avoid a second bigger case they'll have to do something about it.  It then became obvious to me that he was illegally detained, because he was held in a white single quarters, which was in those days abnormal, absolutely abnormal.  We then discussed that at a time they will - of their convenience, he will let me know, and we will meet up at Komatipoort.  His car, the Datsun Stanza, will be taken through to Swaziland to give the impression that after his release he went into Swaziland and went to the ANC.

MR JANSEN: In the Harms Commission evidence was led that Mr Khondile was officially released by the police on the 11th of August 1981.  Do you remember that evidence?

WITNESS:  The 10th of August or the 11th, yes, I remember that, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Was it for you as a Security Policeman strange that somebody would be kept - would be detained illegally?

WITNESS:   It was for me as clear - immediately clear as

MR JANSEN: /daylight

MR JANSEN: daylight that he was - they pretended to release him at Bloemfontein, where he was originally arrested and held by - at the time Warrant-Officer Hendrik Prinsloo, who is now Colonel Hendrik Prinsloo, still with Police Headquarters in the Security Section, and that that is where his car, the Datsun Stanza of the late Chris Hani, was officially held, and his belongings.  Because he was then connected also in the Port Elizabeth area he was passed over to them for interrogation too.  So they then released him, and abducted him on the road and brought him with the Datsun Stanza back to Jeffreys Bay Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say Bloemfontein?

WITNESS:   Bloemfontein at first, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

WITNESS:   The reports that I saw afterwards, he was detained and questioned originally by Warrant-Officer Hendrik Prinsloo of Bloemfontein, because Lesotho actually fell under the Regional Office of Bloemfontein, and more specific the Ladybrand branch office, which is at that Main Border Gate near Maseru.

WILSON J: Sorry, did you say he was officially released at Bloemfontein?

WITNESS:   He was officially released at Bloemfontein, where his car and belongings were handed to him, and then a big scene in front of the uniform branch personnel, I suppose, and when he then left on the road he was abducted ... (inaudible - end of Side A, Tape 3)