Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

CHAIRPERSON: You must use one language, because we've got interpreters who are going to have a problem if you are going to keep on changing languages, changing from one language into the other.  If you would please use one language.

MS FALATI: The problem that I have is that if you are a township resident, you are going to talk a mixture of languages, that was what I was trying to get through.   I will speak Zulu, English as well as Xhosa.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct)  Thank you very much.

MR KUNY: You were telling us, after you finished school, were did you live?

MS FALATI: I grew up in KwaThema Springs and I went to school at KwaThema Springs up to standard 6 and I did my high school education at Hohlange Institution, which is in Durban.
 Thereafter I worked.  I had a fall, then I had to go off school and bring my baby up.

MR KUNY: Is it correct that in the 1980's you became increasingly involved in politics and in the struggle?

MS FALATI: That is correct I was intensely involved in politics.

MR KUNY: Arising out of your political activities, you were detained?

MS FALATI: That is correct.

MR KUNY: Can you recall when you were first detained?

MS FALATI: I was detained in 1986.  I think it was 1985, for one day, I was interrogated and I was detained further in 1986, for quite a few days and then I was released.
 In 1987 I was detained further for 90 days under the state of emergency.

MR KUNY: Can you remember when you were released then?

MS FALATI: Yes, I do have some documentation to that effect.

MR KUNY: And you home was also bombed, was that in 1988?

MS FALATI: That is correct, after I had been detained for three days.

MR KUNY: Your house was bombed?

MS FALATI: Yes, that is correct my home was bombed in 1988, on the 2nd of March as a suspect for harbouring trained cadres of Umkhonto weSizwe.  It was after the incident of 1987, on the 23rd of October, there was a shoot-out between Umkhonto weSizwe cadres who infiltrated the country and the Security Forces.  And one of the Security Forces Captain Luddick, came out in the newspapers.

MR KUNY: Ms Falati, after your house was bombed, where did you move to?  Were you able to continue to stay in your house or did you move after that?

MS FALATI: Well, I was staying with my neighbours, fortunately I had the support of the community so I was sleeping at my neighbours, I didn't go to my sister's place because I just took my children to be at my sister's place, that is at White City, but I was staying at my neighbours, same street, because I had until the 14th of June.

MR KUNY: When did you first meet Mrs Mandela?

MS FALATI: I first met Mrs Mandela, that was in 1986, June 16, when she made the famous speech of the necklacing.

MR KUNY: Mrs Mandela was a popular figure?

MS FALATI: Pardon?

MR KUNY: Mrs Mandela was a popular figure at the time?

MS FALATI: Yes.

MR KUNY: And she was respected for the stand that she took against the government?

MS FALATI: Exactly.

MR KUNY: Did she render any assistance to you in relation to your daughter?

MS FALATI: That was in 1987 when my daughter was actually expelled, you can say expelled in some way, because of my involvement and actually in the classes in school, they elected her to be one of the SRC, student representatives.  So they said she was bringing my influence into school, so she was expelled, so I had to go to Mrs Mandela.

MR KUNY: What assistance did she render to you?

MS FALATI: She actually looked for a school for my daughter.

MR KUNY: Now, in what way were you associated with Mrs Mandela at that time?

MS FALATI: She was my comrade and my leader.

MR KUNY: Do you know anything about an attack by the police on Jerry Richardson's house in November, the 9th of November 1988?

MS FALATI: No.  Jerry Richardson that was on the 9th of November, I was staying with some of the MK soldiers at my uncle's place in Orlando East, so Jerry Richardson's home was bombed on the 9th of November.  That I was told when one of our comrades came to tell us there is a shoot-out in Orlando West, so it is no more safe here.  So I had to move.

MR KUNY: Are you aware of any allegations made by Katiza Cebekhulu, there was a report that Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala arising out of that incident, they were linked to that incident and were reported to have sold out?  Are you aware of any such allegation?

MS FALATI: Allegations of - come again?

MR KUNY: That Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala were connected with this incident at all having been to the house?

MS FALATI: No, I do not know what was the reason of the bombing of the house of Jerry Richardson.  Because at that time I was not close, I didn't know well Jerry Richardson at that time, because I was coming and going, I was not staying at Mrs Mandela's place, I was staying actually rotating form my family from town, that is Joubert Park, I moved to Dlamini then I moved to Orlando East.

MR KUNY: And when did you go to Paul Verryn's place, the manse?

MS FALATI: That was that day, on the 9th of November.

MR KUNY: Who did you go with to the manse?

MS FALATI: With my Commander, MK Commander.  That is a MK cadre which I was staying with and the other comrades and my daughter.

MR KUNY: Who was staying at the manse at that time?

MS FALATI: That was Father Paul Verryn and other comrades were displaced by the brutal apartheid regime.

MR KUNY: Now, Ms Falati there has been evidence and statements made or if I can put it on this basis, was a report made to you by Katiza Cebekhulu or anyone else, about sexual assault on him by Bishop Verryn.  Can you tell the Commission something about what you know about that?

MS FALATI: Let me start from, I usually wake up early in the morning and make myself, after rinsing my teeth, I make myself a cup of coffee or tea.
 So it was just a routine thing that I do every time, so I woke up early in the morning, I noticed that the door was ajar.  I wanted to know who actually had opened the door, whether these comrades had left the door open or somebody has gone out or I wanted to establish that.  I peeped through the door, I find that Katiza Cebekhulu is sitting on the doorstep of the stoep, that is the staircase.
 So he was in a state of - he was in a state of sorrow, yes, he was crying.  But when I said Katiza what happened, why are you sitting here, he started crying and said you know, this Reverend has actually abused me.  Abused you, yes, he had sexually abused me.
 Then I wanted somebody to come, I always do that.  When I discover a thing, I try by all means to contact a second person so that I must have a witness for future references.

MR KUNY: Ms Falati ...

MS FALATI: So I contacted Aubrey and my daughter to come and see and ask Katiza why is he crying and they told me that  ... (tape ends)

MR KUNY: Did you make a report to Mrs Mandela regarding what you had been told?

MS FALATI: I didn't first start with making a report to Mrs Mandela, I started with Mrs Masinga, that is the mother's union, who was collecting the food, the food parcels from the mission.
 So when I told Mrs Masinga, she told me that Xoliswa the best thing, go and tell one of the community leaders, because Mrs Mandela was just two streets away from me, from the mission, so I went to see Mrs Mandela.
 I couldn't find her, I went into the office.  I couldn't find her at the office, so I was told that she was in Diepkloof.  I went to tell Mrs Mandela, from Mrs Mandela I went to the not the Diepkloof, Orlando West, that is the commerce house in Orlando West, so I went there, I couldn't find Mrs Mandela.
 So eventually I went to Diepkloof to report that.

MR KUNY: Can we perhaps just establish, did you at some stage after that, actually discuss this issue with Mrs Mandela and tell her what you had found out?

MS FALATI: Yes.