Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: On the 3 of July 1985 I was working in Newcastle. Before the 3rd I arrived here at home from Newcastle.  In the 3rd of July I was going to town.  On my way to town, near the hall, I saw a Casspir and a van following each other.  There were other people behind me.  They were chanting freedom songs and toi-toiing.  They were behind me.  The police didn't ask anything, they shot us with tear gas.  They left people who were behind us.  They shot us and we ran away, running from one street to another and these police were chasing us.  We tried to hide in some different yards and the Casspir left we went back.
At that time, I think it was about eleven to twelve, We went back to town and I say a Casspir near the hall.   And I saw someone on top of the Hippo and I could recognise that person.  It was Solani.  And he was in the Casspir with the sjambok around his neck.  They were assaulting him with the back of their rifles as he was on top of this Casspir.  There was a van following this Casspir and we could see that we couldn't go to town.  We had to run away.  I was together with my friend Fuzile Madkane and we ran away.  We saw the Hippo going towards the Swelistswa direction and we went towards town, but we couldn't reach town and we saw people coming downwards toi-toiing and I said to Fuzile do you see what is happening.  We didn't do anything, but they are shooting us.  This was very painful to us.  I said to my friend I will go and join the toi-toi.  
We both went and joined the toi-toi.  We went to Bongwenii.  I think there were about 2 000 people in that toi-toi.  We went towards Swelitswa and we were going to Chris's house and we took out his car, because he was there when the van was following the Casspir.  We burnt down Chris's car and we went back to the township and we disperse.  At about six to seven to eight, there was a toi-toi again and there were many people in that toi-toi.  They were divided into two and we joined the one which was behind.  We went to Bongweni.  We were toi-toiing in the street where Maliti was staying at the time.  And while we were trying to run to the yards other yards were locked and if you run to such yards and you could fell down. 
 I went back home at that  time and I decided not to sleep and to go and join the toi-toi.  We were toi-toiing all that time.  And in the morning we heard that there are people who have been shot.  Someone told us that there are others who have been shot and killed.  We went to Bongweni and we saw these people lying down.  There was one man who owned a shop, but I just forgot his name.  He came to take people who were going to work in the morning and he when he tried to pick up these people who were lying down dead, the police came and they stopped him.  It was about four.  We decided that this was a very painful thing.  And we were not there to burn things.  We were just singing.  We stopped people from going to work.  People didn't go to work, but those who worked in the hospital, they did, they were allowed to go to work.  And then we came back to the township.  
As we were there in the township, this was happening on the 3rd.  On the 4th , it was the time we saw these people lying down dead.  And we decided to sing and toi-toi around the township.  That night I went back, I was preparing to go and play a disco concert.  At about one, early in the morning, I went to my brother's house to sleep there.  At about twelve to one, at about two to three  that morning I heard a knock at the door. I listened and I could hear people outside.  When I opened the curtain to look through, I could see there were policemen outside.  When I opened the window, I saw the police facing this window and they were looking through this window.  I opened the door.  I saw my brother together with the policemen.  And when I opened the door, they beat me with their rifle and I fell down.  At that time I was a Rastafarian and they told me that I come from Johannesburg with the political ideas and I didn't answer them.  They told me to give my brother the key, because they were going to arrest me.  They took me with them and we I walked with them and as we were walking, I could hear other policemen behind us coming and they told me that they got me know and I didn't answer them.  I heard them behind me speaking Afrikaans, saying that they must leave me and as soon as I go back, they must shoot me and leave me there.  I could understand that and I decided not to go back, even if they told me too.  They said to me Themba, please go back to your home and I told them no, I am not going to do that, because you have already arrested me, because I've understood they said  in Afrikaans.  They said they will kill me.  They beat me when I refused and they kicked me.  
When we approached the hall, I think there were about eighty-three people who were there, they were in twos.  They were sitting down in twos.  They said to these people, yes, we have found Bishop Tutu, your leader, because he is your leader and others didn't answer, they were beaten up by the sjamboks and they finally agreed that I am the one who was the leader.  They were taken by the Hippo and they said to me I am not going to be put in the Hippo together with others.  I was taken in the vehicle that looked like a bus.  They took me to the police station and there police assaulted me, they kicked me and other pointed me with their guns.  They took me to the police station.  
When we got to the police station, I saw others were already there and they were taken to the cells. They said to me I have to tell them who is our leader.  And then I told them that I know nothing about the leader, because I've just came back from Johannesburg.   They told me that we heard that you are the leader.  And then I said to them the person who said I am a leader, I want to see this person,  he must be here.  They said to me, no we don't want you explanation, but you will tell us who are the people who are working with you.  They beat me and I didn't say anything.  They took me to cells and there were many other people who were there.  I think we were about eighty-three in the cell.  Eighty of the eight-three were released, only three of us were left there.  They put water in the cell with the hosepipe and they teargassed us in that cell.  The person I saw teargassing us, it was this coloured policeman.  He is from Lauritzville, but I forgot his name.  His name is Jansen.  He as the one teargassing us.  We tried to defend us, because the tear gas was choking us.  After that I was taken out of the cell and they took me to the office where Chris was and Chris said to me, why did I burn his car.  I didn't answer that.  And he hand-cuffed me, he took me to the shower.  They opened a tap and I was wet.  Chris took a stick and he beat me with it.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] Mr Rasmante, take your time.  If you feel better then you can carry on with your testimony.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: O.K.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you feel a bit better?