Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-03

MR BRAIZBLATT: I can - I didn't inspect the cargo, I didn't open up the cargo or the cargo boxes, but our clients, I mean I know who I was in touch with, I was in touch with the irrigation company ...(indistinct) and there's another company that did a lot of work here with South African, I was in touch with Gottex who at the time were forwarding a lot of swimwear and general ladies wear, and I was in touch Aggrexco who was forwarding processed meat products into South Africa.  Don't forget, we had a limited space, we weren't allowed to forward a lot.

MS PATTA: But you seem to have a remarkable knowledge of every other item that was on the plane, excepting this particular one which you ...(intervention)

MR BRAIZBLATT: No, I'm referring to cargo from Tel Aviv.

MS PATTA: I'm saying in both directions.  You never knew what came from Jo'burg?

MR BRAIZBLATT: From South Africa, no.

MS PATTA: You never knew of anything?

MR BRAIZBLATT: Now, I had to go according the cargo manifest and it didn't basically it didn't even interest me, because, once again, we had a handling agent who was in touch directly with the agents and with the customers.  We didn't even see who was couriering the things.

MS PATTA: As Cargo Manager, is not security one, and safety of passengers also one of your concerns?

MR BRAIZBLATT: Definitely.

MS PATTA: So were you not concerned that there was an object that might endanger the passengers, were you not even vaguely concerned?

MR BRAIZBLATT: From where, from Johannesburg  ...(intervention)

MS PATTA: I'm talking about the specific incident that Flippie Loog mentioned.

MR BRAIZBLATT: From Johannesburg to Tel Aviv?

MS PATTA: Yes, you weren't concerned?

MR BRAIZBLATT: I don't know what you've saying by I wasn't concerned, I mean in which respect could I - I've got to rely, in other words what you're saying to me is, why didn't you tell Johannesburg that you had a dangerous article on board and why did they put it on board.  That's what you're asking me.

MS PATTA: I'm asking why you didn't even bother to find out, your told Mr Magadhla you weren't interested.

MR BRAIZBLATT: No, because once again, we have our handling agents, and our customs agents.  Had there been something of a peculiar nature they would have straight away told me.

MS PATTA: Let's assume they wouldn't have.

CHAIRPERSON: I think what we want to establish from you, Mr Braizblatt, is whether you had a process to deal with misdeclared objects.

MR BRAIZBLATT: From Johannesburg to Tel Aviv or from ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: From anywhere.  Particularly now, because there is an incident.  You see, the problem is that all these questions are asked against a background of a statement that has been made by somebody who says, who gives a sinister interpretation to the events of that day.  You are giving it an innocent interpretation, you say, well, an object fell, I didn't know what it was, it was a missile, I don't know if it was a missile.  The person says you were specifically asked if it had needed fuel or stuff like that, it makes it dangerous.  I know that you said that it's a malicious statement, but it's a statement that is there and for us, therefor to test whether it is that statement or your statement or evidence that must be relied on, we must test your responses, and I find it remarkable to say nothing else, that weren't you were concerned about the safety of passengers when an object drops out which may or may not be a missile, which may or may not have contained fuel.  All you tell us is that your attitude was that, well, I didn't know what it was, I came there having been asked, summoned to come and look at it, firstly not telling us why it was necessary for you to be summonsed, but having gone there, when you get there, what do you do.  You look at it, you said, fold it right back on, did it fall out and what is it, I don't know, nobody knows it, and you put it back.  Now you must appreciate, therefor, that our problem is, there is a sinister interpretation that has been given on the events of that day.  So you have to satisfy us that you did conduct yourself in a way that must make us reject the version that has been given to us.

MR BRAIZBLATT: Okay, let me try and clarify that, and I want you to understand this.  The set-up and an airport is such, any airport, any aircraft that's handled by anybody, we have airport authority porters, we have our handling agents.  Now, we as airline representatives unfortunately don't have enough of our own staff to be everywhere all the time.  That's why we rely very heavily upon our handling agents.  When I was called out to the aircraft, if you remember I said to you, they called me out to say, hey look at these long objects that were on board your aircraft.  Nobody told me that something had fallen out that was damaged, the crate was damaged.  I told you I saw it on the profile.  Now at the same time what I'm saying to you is, everything is then taken on the dollies to the cargo acceptance centre.  At the cargo acceptance centre it is then stored in accordance to size and aircraft and date that it arrived on.  Now, if you're asking me, then why didn't you check in, it's a dangerous goods, for me it wasn't a dangerous goods because I didn't receive any pre-advise that I had dangerous goods on board.  Now, once again, I rely on our handling agents, on our cargo handling agents, LL in this case, to tell me if something was bad or wrong, if something was cleared incorrectly, damaged.  That's why we are paying them the money to do this.  It didn't even dawn on me to think that maybe this object was a missile, the thought would not even have occurred to me, I mean, to think of a thing like that.  Now to ask me, just think for yourselves for a moment, to ask me, Jossie, does this contain rocket fuel.  How can I know if it contains rocket fuel, how can I possibly know, just think for a moment.  I mean we've got to try and be a bit fair here.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me answer that question.  Why would a person who was not running after us to give us that information, who was solicited to give an account of a story that has apparently been told over and over, a story that you also do not deny, only to the extent that it implicates you ...(inaudible) Is there any reason why the person, quite apart from being malicious, knowing how serious the ramification and the implications of that statement is, why would he say something like that if that a conversation never took place in the form in which it took place, according to him?

MR BRAIZBLATT: I found I'm now speaking as a person that doesn't live in South Africa and has got nothing to do with your present future situation, and I found, I don't even know how to express this, I found all sorts of stories going around about all sorts of things in order to do all sorts of harm to all sorts of people at all sorts of walks of life.  Now, I would have remembered had I been asked if a missile had rocket fuel in it ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: You see, the problem is that ...(intervention)

MR BRAIZBLATT: And at the same time, just like I'm answering you, it could be, I would have said, look, how can I know if the thing had missile fuel, I didn't even know it was a missile.  I mean, people are trying to, it's beyond me, why, I've got my personal opinions why, it's my own personal opinions.

MS PATTA: These particular two captains were both former South African Airways ...(intervention)

MR BRAIZBLATT: Former.

MS PATTA: Pilots, yes, so they knew what a missile looked like.  They were also highly concerned and ...(indistinct), so I would just find it very difficult if they did not enquire on the ground, was it with you or somebody else, to clarify what it was that they were seeing.