Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-07

MR DEHAL: And the two policemen you talk of are the policemen who featured at the Edendale operation?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: And the terrorism counts here dealt with, sorry and the terrorism counts together with all the acts on which you apply for amnesty are not acts of gross human rights violations?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No.

MR DEHAL: Is it correct when you appeared at the Section 29 inquiry you were told by the persons there presiding that you would not be required to attend any Hearing and that your application for amnesty would be heard in chambers?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: But you were then served with a notice to attend here?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: And you're cited as an applicant?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Now before you proceed, is it also correct, that you testified before the TRC Human Rights Violations dealing with torture in prisons and detention cells?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: You dealt with your detention prior to your trial and thereafter?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: That's contained in the TRC report in the 6th volume of 5 volume TRC report, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes it's true.

MR DEHAL: What we have here Mr Chairman, is only the one page from the report.  Unfortunately it came to me about half and hour ago.  I don't have copies made.  I will arrange for those copies.  Ms Narkedien, may I just take you firstly to paragraph ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: Ms Narkedien, can you explain something here?  You formulate the one offence as harbouring a terrorist, would that be Mr Webster?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Gordon Webster, yes.

JUDGE PILLAY: Is that the period where you assisted in getting him out of the country?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Dehal, do you intend to hand this in as an Exhibit?  We'll call it Q.

MR DEHAL: Yes, I think that will be wise.

CHAIRPERSON: And then copies will be made and circulated to all concerned as soon as they're available?

MR DEHAL: Correct.  Thank you.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay, what I'm going to read is actually the effects of solitary confinement, when I spent 7 months in the basement at Klerksdorp Female Prison.
"I had to go down and live in the basement in isolation for 7 months".

MR DEHAL: You're reading an extract of your testimony then, which is contained in the TRC Report, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: It's on page 211 to 212, in Volume 4, chapter 7.  Sorry Chairperson, this is contained in those volumes of TRC reports.  They are not here.  I don't think any of us have it.  I had it here the other day, but I returned them, sorry.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay.
"That was very, very painful.  I don't even want to describe psychologically what I had to do to survive down there.  I will write it down, I will write it one day, but I could never tell you, but it did teach me something and that is that no human being can live alone more than, I think, even 1 month, because there's nothing you can do to survive by yourself every single day.  The basement was an entire wing of the prison, it was actually an entire floor. I felt as the months went by that I was going deeper and deeper into the ground.  Physically I wasn't, but psychologically I was.  I became so psychologically damaged that I used to feel that all these cells, because there were a whole lot of other cells that were empty but they were locked, that to feel all these cells are like coffins and there were all dead people in there.  It was as if I was alive and all these people were dead.  I was so disturbed but I would never, never let the wardresses know, but they did destroy me.  My suggestion is that no prisoner, regardless of their crimes, should ever be in isolation per se,  not even this Section 29 business for two weeks.  I know it serves a purpose but ultimately when it's prolonged, I don't think anybody can handle it.  I've been out of prison now for more than 7 or 10 years, but I haven't recovered and I will never recover, I know I won't." I have tried to. Sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you like to have a short break?
MS NARKEDIEN
No, it's okay.  The first two years after my release I tried to be normal again and the more I struggled to be normal, the more disturbed I became.  I had to accept that I was damaged.  A part of my soul was eaten away as if by maggots, horrible as it sounds, and it will never get back again.
Sorry, this was the worst part of my life.  I think I'll be okay later on.

MR DEHAL: Sorry.  Ms Narkedien, is it correct that the preceding paragraphs, paragraph 40 and 41 which we are not going to deal with, dealt with equally horrific torture experiences you had, which you testified on, prior to your trial at the hands of the then Security Police.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Sorry, where are you reading from?  Oh yes, unfortunately I didn't photocopy the pages properly, but I had also testified about the torture during the first 7 days that I was arrested by the Security Police.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  If I may take you back to Exhibit P, we stopped at paragraph 5. We now go to paragraph 6, which deals with the escape of Gordon Webster, the Edendale Hospital Operation.  You begin there by dealing with aiding the prisoner to escape.  I see here you've dealt with each of the counts as you were convicted of and you have paraphrased it into each of those succeeding paragraphs, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Now, let's deal with the first, dealing with aiding a prisoner to escape.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay.
On the evening of the 4th of May 1986, I assisted Robert McBride, Derick McBride, Welile Khumalo, Antonio Du Preez and Matthew Lecordier to rescue our MK Commander, know to me by the name of Steve Mkhize, but later identified by the name of Gordon Webster.  He had been in the intensive care ward at the Edendale Hospital under armed police guard at the time of his escape.  My role was to wait under a bridge near the hospital to where Robert and others would bring Gordon and I then had to drive him immediately back to Wentworth, to Robert's father's workshop.  I was unable to fulfil my actual role that evening because Welile had approached my car and insisted I drive him away from the scene, because of the presence of a traffic control officer further down the road, which made him very agitated.  Robert and the other unit members drove Gordon to Wentworth.

MR DEHAL: You then deal with the next count that you are convicted of, namely harbouring or concealing a terrorist, namely Gordon Webster.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Will you read that please?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay.
During the week of the 5th to the 8th of May 1986 I assisted Robert and others to move Gordon from the workshop to a house somewhere in the Umlazi township.  On Friday the 9th of May 1986 I assisted Robert to transport Gordon Webster and his girlfriend Anne to Botswana where they were then transported by MK comrades to a safe-house in Gaberone.

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr Dehal, can you tell me what section of that Act this harbouring is a transgression of?

MR DEHAL: Judge, I would be able to tell you that.  I have volume 1 here, shall we go through this and come back to that or shall I deal with it now?

JUDGE PILLAY: No, no you carry on.

MR DEHAL: Thank  you.  Ms Narkedien, we now deal with paragraph 8, assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm.  Now before we begin with this, this is the assault in regard to which you were convicted based on the doctrine of common purpose on the Edendale operation relating to two policemen, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: Before we begin, can I just get to that?  Would this be - sorry that's the operation in which Mr Buthelezi died and the victims were Constable Ngcobo, Constable Visagie, Siphiwe Shangeni, Nkosinati Nkabinde.  Which would the two policemen be, do you remember?