Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

CHAIRPERSON: /intracacies

CHAIRPERSON: intricacies of the whole matter but what I know is that the Comrades were taken in his car and they were taken to the police station, but where the problem started, I'm not clear.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Is it true that when you returned home, according to your statement, you received word from a child about the death of your son - that your son was shot?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How old was this child?

WITNESS:   She's actually grown up but she's younger than me.  She could be 30.

CHAIRPERSON: So it's a young person not a child?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And again in your statement you say that you didn't understand the dynamics of what was happening around in the town but you knew that Walter, your son, was deeply involved.  He was deeply involved in what, did you know?

WITNESS:   I could not elaborate on that because he was a member of the ANC.  But I wouldn't know what part he played within the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Why did Welkom Hospital refuse to admit your son?  Do you know any reason?

WITNESS:  I do not know the reason why they refused to attend to him.  They were speaking to the ambulance men and they never spoke to me.  And when we got to Bloemfontein they never attended him and we had to come back to Welkom once more.

CHAIRPERSON: And in your statement you say that your son was chopped with a space at Dr Zwane's surgery by the anti-Comrades and you say you got that story from Dr Zwane.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think that if we went to Dr Zwane he could  identify these people who chopped your son?

WITNESS:   I believe that if he does know them he could point them out but I do not know what he saw.

CHAIRPERSON: Again in your statement somewhere you say that on two occasions the presiding magistrate of Theunissen called you to his office and said that he was sent by the South African Police to inform you that they could not find your son's murderers.  Do you know who this magistrate is?  Do you know his name?

WITNESS:   I don't remember the magistrate's name.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know where he is now?  Had he moved or not?

WITNESS:   I have no idea as to his whereabouts.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is Dibuka and Patrick?

WITNESS:   Dibuka ran away during that time.  He went to Bloemfontein.  I think they said she's staying in Heilbron(?).  Patrick Mwilwa also went to Qwa-Qwa during that time.

CHAIRPERSON: He left his business?

WITNESS:  They took them with.

CHAIRPERSON: So if we want to get in touch with Dibuka we could try and get him around Bloemfontein.

WITNESS:   I think you can get her in Virginia because she's conducting a business in Virginia in the centre of town.  It's also a shoe repair business.

CHAIRPERSON: And this one Patrick is at Qwa-Qwa?

WITNESS:   Yes, I understand he's in Qwa-Qwa but he was shot in Qwa-Qwa when he arrived.  Only his wife has survived him.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he dead now?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know who shot him?

WITNESS:   I have no idea but I heard that he had been shot in Qwa-Qwa.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the other names of the Comrades who were with your son when these things were happening?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.  I still remember one of them.  They  have just spoken.  They have just rendered their testimony.  As well as a Mr Nkatha, he's also present.  He's one of the witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Are these Comrades here?

WITNESS:   Yes, some of them are present and they know about this incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Can they stand so that I see them, if they are here.  Okay, then it's easy because we can - what is your name, by the way, you have already appeared here?  Yes, what was your name?  (Reply inaudible)  I'll get the spelling from this lady.

INTERPRETER: Josias Moago Monokoane.

CHAIRPERSON: And the other Comrade?  (Reply inaudible)  Thank you.  We'll have to come back to you so as to get other messages from you.  By the way, Dr Zwane - is he still around here?

WITNESS:   Yes, he's still staying in Theunissen but his surgery is in Tabong but I don't know whereabouts in Tabong.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Ephraim, before I made a comment let me leave to the other committee members if they've got a question.

PROF MAGWAZA: I have one or two questions.  Who is Leno and Matima?  I see that in your statement you mention these two.

WITNESS:   Matima is a young boy.  I don't know whether he was attending school but he was shot on that very same day.

PROF MAGWAZA: And Leno?

WITNESS:   Leno was also a victim.  He was shot round about the 20th.

PROF MAGWAZA: And do you know where the families are, that is Leno's and Matima's family?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do know.

PROF MAGWAZA: Ja, because we would like them also to come forward to the Truth Commission to give statements.  And  secondly, what happened to the case?  Did you report the case to the police station?  Was there any police docket?

WITNESS:   No docket was opened.  The last time I heard about the case was when I had gone to see the magistrate who told me that nobody had been brought forward for the murder of my son.  And when I went back to try and retrieve the statements as well as the docket a certain Constable Ramahlaha said to me I shouldn't come and look for those things because it reminds him of his house that was burnt down.  And I asked him as to what my son had to do with the burning down of his house.

PROF MAGWAZA: It was Constable who?

WITNESS:   Ramahlaha.

PROF MAGWAZA: Is he still around that police station?

WITNESS:   Yes, he's still at Theunissen Police Station.

PROF MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Ephraim, thank you for coming.  Your case too will be investigated and we need to investigate to know who this magistrate is who deviated from the process who prevented the court sitting by just telling you that the police say that they don't find the murderer of your son.  That process was wrong as you rightly said so - that that thing had to go into the courts of law and that thing never happened and of course we have eyewitnesses who are here who may be called one day to give us some of the things we want to be clear about in this case and Dibuka who is in Virginia.  Also if we need him, we'll get hold of him.  Of course Patrick unfortunately ... (Tape ends.  Subsequent tape commences without overlap) ... I know that you didn't ask the permission to do anything but I  think why you came here you want us to investigate about the death of your son, that is common knowledge.  And also maybe I need to ask a question from you about the health of your wife and maybe then about your health.  After you had lost your son, how was your health?  Did is change, your health and your wife's health?

WITNESS:   My wife's health changed drastically.  She's got nerves and she's suffering from heart disease and I was also severely affected because I never rest, I always think about my son's death.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you get any medical treatment?

WITNESS:   I'm not getting any treatment.

CHAIRPERSON: Why don't you get it - I mean you and your wife?

WITNESS:   My wife is the one who was getting treated but I haven't been attended to.

CHAIRPERSON: Is your wife still getting any treatment?

WITNESS:   Yes, she's the one who had been attending the treatments but she takes time before she goes to see the doctor.  It's only when these nerves trouble her that she goes to see a doctor.

CHAIRPERSON: Where does she go and see the doctor?  Does she pay?

WITNESS:   Yes, she does pay.