Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-14

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Lassidge.  I don't want to spend any time - or much time debating issues arising from your submission, save just to draw your attention to two matters.  One which appears at the bottom of page 16, in which you state that members of this Commission have said that Inkatha had not come forward with any information.  I think what we - we obviously are aware that - and I myself and other Commissioners were present when Dr Buthelezi and other members of the IFP gave their submissions to the Commission in September last year.  I think what we have emphasised is that ordinary individual members of the IFP have not been willing to come forward to the Commission and give their stories, despite our
 /attempts to
attempts to draw them in, despite our attempts to - in our discussions with local and regional leaders of the IFP to persuade their members to come forward to tell their stories, so that their stories may be heard, and so that their stories may form part of our final report.  We have not had success in that regard.
Also with regard to the list of people which was given to us by Dr Buthelezi, a list of Inkatha leaders or office-bearers allegedly killed by UDF/ANC, we have been investigating that list for some time.  We are still investigating it, and we do so despite the fact that we are not getting co-operation from the IFP in our investigations.
The second matter which I wish to raise briefly is that you said that there was no document whatsoever which linked Dr Buthelezi to hit squads, and I want to refer you to the military memorandum, prepared I believe by Colonel van den Berg, dated 2nd May 1990.  If you haven't got a copy of the document we can of course give one to you.  I believe you do have a copy, and I refer you to paragraph 2 (b) of that document, and I am going to give a loose Afrikaans - well, I'll read it in Afrikaans and ask the translator to - the interpreter to translate it - 2 (b).  This relates to a meeting with "hoofstaf intelligensie" - I don't know who that was at the time - with Dr Buthelezi on the 26th of April 1989 in Ulundi, and the minutes of the - or the memorandum reads as follows.
"The Chief Minister was concerned because he was losing the armed struggle, and intimated that there was still a need for offensive action, meaning the
 /application
application of hit squads."
That's the only document I wish to refer to at this time.  Obviously I have said that we will respond for the purposes of clarification to your clients' submission, and will expect him to respond to those clarifying questions raised.
Perhaps you could just - there's a note being passed to me.  (Pause)  Perhaps you could just indicate whether you are acting here for the party itself - is that correct, or Mr - Mr Falconer.

MR FALCONER: Mr Chairman, we here represent primarily those persons who have been implicated by the evidence, or who it was anticipated would be implicated in the evidence, and I refer to your letter of the 8th of May 1997.  Obviously certain of the allegations have an impact upon the Inkatha Freedom Party, and to that extent we represent the Inkatha Freedom Party as well.

CHAIRPERSON: I see. So, for example, the people who were mentioned in the hearing by a number of the witnesses as performing the corps of the alleged Esikhawini hit squad, people such as Prince Elangeni, Mrs Mbuyase, etcetera, are you acting for those people?

MR FALCONER: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And can we expect that in due course the individual section 30 notices will be answered to, or does this submission here represent your answer to those?  I think - you know, I know that there were bare denials during the course of the evidence.

MR FALCONER: Mr Chairman, I understand that - we will obviously have to take detailed instructions from specific clients, but at this stage our response is that as
 /contained
contained in this submission.

MR LASSIDGE: Mr Chairman, if I may just indicate - you drew my attention quite correctly to one of these documents.  We have dealt with that in our schedule dealing with each of these documents which was raised in the allegations, and, Mr Chairman, as far as your statement concerns the investigation of the hit squad activities and that, we accept that.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Sir.  Mr de Vos, is there anything that you want to reply to arising out of Mr Lassidge's submission?  We did say that counsel could have brief rights of reply if there was anything that was raised which affected their clients.

MR DE VOS: Not at this stage, thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills, is there anything which you want to raise?