Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-21

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, because that's some distance from Verulam, isn't it?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, it is.

CHAIRPERSON: It's quite a way up the coast.

STEPHANIE MILLER: It appears that all the paupers' graves were there at that period time from that area.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR LAX: You mean from that mortuary?

STEPHANIE MILLER: From that mortuary.

MS THABETHE: You were still answering the question as to what happened after you had identified the body that fitted the criteria that you were looking for.  What did you do next?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Well we then drew the docket from the mortuary, the post-mortem report.  I motivated to them find where this site was at Charlottedale cemetery and see whether it was possible to exhume the body and confirm that it was the same as that of Ntombi Kubheka.

MS THABETHE: Would you just bear with us, Mr Chair, there is a statement that my witness is looking for.
	Okay, then you arranged to have the exhumation.

STEPHANIE MILLER: I arranged to have the exhumation done and arranged for the South African Police to be present and Dr Aiyer from the forensic laboratory attended.  We went to Groutville and the site was dug by the local authorities and the coffin was exhumed.  The remains were found to have been interred in a body bag, together with clothing.  Dr Aiyer commenced to examine on site the remains and it started to rain and he elected at that point to remove the body bag ...(intervention)

MS THABETHE: Okay, just hang on.  You referred to clothing that was exhumed as well, would this be the clothing that has been displayed here in the previous hearings, referred to as Exhibit 1, 2, 3 and 4?

STEPHANIE MILLER: That is the clothing that was found in the body bag.

CHAIRPERSON: You were present when they were shown?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I was present.

CHAIRPERSON: So you can confirm having seen Exhibits 1, 2, 3 and 4?   Was that the total amount of clothing there?  Were there any shoes or panties, for instance?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I did not see any shoes, I saw - the way in which the body was removed, the dress was clear, it was on top of the body, but the skull of the deceased was shrouded in something white and I couldn't determine at that stage because I wasn't standing where Dr Aiyer was, as to what the white was, but it appeared that it was her underwear or a sweater that had just become wrapped around the skull as the body decomposed.

CHAIRPERSON: So as far as you know, the clothing before us was all the clothing that was found there, or can't you comment on that?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Inside the body bag, what I saw was a dress, something white around the skull and what appeared to be underwear.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Yes, so it started to rain ...?

STEPHANIE MILLER: It started to rain and Dr Aiyer then handed the bag together with all the contents, clothing included, to the South African Police Services who were with us. They took charge of the remains and delivered it to him at the forensic laboratory for a second post-mortem to be done.

MS THABETHE: Who was it delivered to?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I understand that it was taken away by the Stanger Police Services.

MS THABETHE: And delivered to?

STEPHANIE MILLER: To the forensic laboratory.

MS THABETHE: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: So you believed that the body was taken by the police?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, it was removed from the cemetery.

CHAIRPERSON: By the police?

STEPHANIE MILLER: By the Police Services.

MS THABETHE: And then, do you know how Dr Steve Naidoo got involved in doing the post-mortem?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Dr Naidoo, I believe that Dr Aiyer and Dr Naidoo are colleagues at the forensic laboratory.

CHAIRPERSON: The forensic laboratory is in Durban?

STEPHANIE MILLER: They were both in Durban and in Pinetown, and they're both Forensic Pathologists.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you know where the remains were taken to, to which forensic laboratory?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I saw them subsequently at the forensic laboratories in Durban, but I don't know that that is where they were originally taken.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MS THABETHE: And then is there anything else you did after the exhumation, with regard to this case?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Well there was a substantial amount of work that needed to be done, largely in consultation with the family to try and get photographs of the deceased, which we did not have in our possession at that time.  To try and get the exact date of when the deceased died and try and get more specifics about the case which were not available to us earlier in the day.

MS THABETHE: And in your endeavour to do this, did you also contact the D'Oliviera Unit?

STEPHANIE MILLER: At some stage, and I'm not sure exactly when, but at stage during the investigation, we were fairly advanced into the investigation I believe, I became aware that the D'Oliviera Unit were looking at exactly the same case.  I came across a Capt Holmes who appeared to be looking at the case from a slightly different angle, and I was able to obtain copies of Vlakplaas records which would help us identify the dates in which the unit had been operating in Durban.  I went to see them and tried to ascertain whether they had any additional information that we didn't have at our disposal.

MS THABETHE: And all of this, it's correct that it was done to try and get the truth as to what happened to Ntombi Kubheka?

STEPHANIE MILLER: It was merely to check the veracity of the amnesty applications.  Our brief was very clear, we were victim driven in that we were there to ensure that those people applying for amnesty were telling the truth, that the facts that they were giving to us were correct and that the families of the people who had disappeared and who had died, would be informed of this as part of the reconciliation process.

MS THABETHE: Okay.  In the amnesty applications of the applicants, all along the cause of death was that she died of natural causes, or they assumed, they suspected that she died of a heart attack, now after the body was exhumed, handed over to the forensic laboratory, when did you first discover about the bullet wound?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I was not aware that she had sustained a bullet wound at all, until after the second post-mortem, until I was advised by Dr Naidoo that he had, whilst examining the body, found the remnants of a .32 bullet head inside the skull cavity and that there was a bullet entry wound on the top of her skull.  I found this of particular interest because on the three exhumations in Elandskop, where the Port Natal Security Branch had pointed out burial sites of three of the deceased, all three had sustained bullet holes on the top of their skull in a very similar sort of fashion and at the Verulam site where Nxweni's body had been exhumed, he'd also had a bullet hole in his skull.  And I suspected that it was possibly a modus operandi, rather than Ntombi had died of natural causes.

MS THABETHE: Did Dr Naidoo, was he the pathologist in all these three bodies you have referred to?

STEPHANIE MILLER: If I remember correctly I think he was, I think he was present at Elandskop and I believe he was present at Verulam.

MR LAX: Just to correct you, Aiyer was present at some of those exhumations as well.

STEPHANIE MILLER: It's possible that Aiyer was there, they were colleagues and I don't recall whether it was Aiyer or Naidoo at Elandskop.

MR LAX: I remember seeing photographs of the Verulam one and he was definitely in those photographs.  Naidoo was also there at one point, but just so you know that.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just before it slips my mind, Ms Miller, did you actually obtain photographs of Ms Kubheka?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I did obtain a photograph of Ms Kubheka.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where that is now?

STEPHANIE MILLER: It is in the file.

MS THABETHE: There are two photographs from the file that Pete ...(indistinct) brought from Pretoria.