Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-27

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: No, I don't recall Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: It would be unusual for people to still be growing when they're 24.

MS THABETHE: Is it, Mr Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: Well as far as I know, normally by the time you're 18 you've stopped growing.  The older you get you start shrinking after a while, but when you're 24, I'd say that you may have - unless there's something unusual, but I think it's general knowledge that most people when they're 24 have reached their height.

MS THABETHE: Okay Mr Chair, I have no further questions.  Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills, do you have any re-examination?

MR WILLS: No re-examination, Mr Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax, do you have any questions you'd like to put?

MS THABETHE: Sorry Mr Chair, before Mr Lax, can I impose please.  I just wanted to put something else on record.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: About the pregnancy issue on the photograph ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The photograph of ...

MS THABETHE: Ja.  I actually stated that on record that I thought I heard someone saying she might have been pregnant, but I was going to follow it up.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MS THABETHE: So I just want to put it on record that I didn't say it for certain that she was pregnant, I said I heard.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR LAX: Thanks, Chair.  There was only aspect and that was on the question of the photographs.
	You had more photographs of the deceased but you've lost some of them over time.  That's what I understood your evidence to be, do I understand it correctly?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, you do.

MR LAX: And the photographs that you have in your collection as you call it, those were either taken before you left or had been posted to you while you were in exile.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Both.  Some of them before I left but some of them when I was outside I was sent some copies.

MR LAX: Yes.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: But also when my mother came for the wedding she brought other photographs.  But as usual, we were not able to come back with all the things that we have, coming back from exile.

MR LAX: Yes.  My only question was, by some other chance, are there any other possible photographs that you might have received while you were in exile, that you might have?  I'm saying you may have other boxes lurking somewhere that you may have put away that you might have forgotten about.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: That might be possible.  Not in my boxes so to speak, maybe in my in-law's place in Soweto, because I've got the things that are there, so that might be possible, I can't guarantee it.

MR LAX: Yes.  All I'm asking is, you know when one generally looks in your possessions, you don't always think about you might have something somewhere else, like that.  So that's why I was asking.  And in fact, you may find there are other of your possessions elsewhere that you hadn't thought about, like now you're mentioning your in-laws.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes.

MR LAX: Could you possibly - I know that we're probably going to conclude these proceedings for the moment, but would you kindly go and look amongst those things and if there are other possible photographs maybe, it would just help us if you could make them available please.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: I will try that.  It might not be immediate, but I can be available to do that.

MR LAX: Within the next week or two, possibly.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: That may be close.  If I do come across something I'll provide it, but if there's nothing I will also let Mr Wills know.

MR LAX: Thank you, we would just appreciate that.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: ...(inaudible) comment.  Mrs Masetla, lawyers are a special breed, don't judge them too harshly.  We are also victims of our occupations sometimes, so don't take it too personally.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Thank you, Advocate Bosman.  I wasn't necessarily looking it as the approach of the lawyer so to speak, but I notice - I don't want to pursue it further, but I noticed it personally and as I say, I wasn't saying all of them or whatever, some of them have been very kind.  To say hello, I am so and so, it doesn't necessarily reflect that you are being kind to a person or whatever.  But as I say, I wouldn't like it to be a fight or an attitude towards Mr Visser or whatever.  I was just commenting that this is how the family has felt, because of the reasons that I have stated.

ADV BOSMAN: No, we understand that.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: We know for the fact that they had records.

ADV BOSMAN: No, we understand your vulnerability in the circumstances.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Thanks very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Well thank you, Mrs Masetla for testifying, we realise it certainly wasn't easy for you to come and testify and that you and your family during these last two weeks, indeed since these hearings commenced last year, have been going through difficult and traumatic times.  And I can assure you that we at the TRC, certainly in no ways ever mean to cause any disrespect or harm to the family.  We thank you for testifying.  That concludes the testimony.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Thank you, Mr Chair.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Chairperson, the issue remains with Dr Naidoo ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I see that we've run quite late, we normally stop for tea at 11 o'clock, but we'll take the tea adjournment, I see it's half past eleven now.  I'm told that Dr Naidoo would be ...(intervention)

MR WILLS: He'll be available at twelve.  I can get the Evidence Leader to phone him and then see when he will be available and I will advise the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.  And then in the meantime as well during the tea adjournment, if we could get copies of that last photograph, the blown up ID or passport photograph which we called 30 I think.  Thank you, we'll take the tea adjournment.

MR VISSER: Chairperson, may I just request ...

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: Just one clarification.  Is it only Dr Naidoo, is that going to be the last witness to follow today, because we've got to try and make arrangements?

CHAIRPERSON: As far as I am advised that is so, I'm unaware of ...(intervention)

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair, I just have a statement that I requested from Mr Attie Moolan(?).  Attie Moolan worked at - he works in Stanga hospital, but if you remember Stanga hospital was also responsible for the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Are you talking about the mortuary or the hospital?

MS THABETHE: No, he works in Stanga hospital now, but he was working at the mortuary then.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh yes.

MS THABETHE: I've requested him to write a very short statement stating what happened from the time the body was exhumed, taken to Stanga, from Stanga what happened up until Dr Naidoo.  I don't know whether people are going insist that we call him.  I don't see the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well I think if you can speak to each other during the tea adjournment, I don't think it's for us to make any finding on that now.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairperson, we have Dr Naidoo, can he be sworn in?

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Naidoo, do you swear that the further evidence that you give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, please raise your right hand and say I do.

S R NAIDOO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, and also to record my appreciation of Dr Naidoo for coming so promptly.
	Dr Naidoo, on the 24th of July, were you present at the District Surgeon's rooms in Durban when ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, is that this year?