Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

UNKNOWN: No questions Chairperson, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Motlokoa, that concludes your testimony, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlaba, how do you want to do this, are you going to call other applicants now or do you want to deal with this matter as a separate issue and conclude it?

MR MHLABA: Please, Mr Chairman, I would prefer to deal with this matter as a separate issue, then I will start with the other incident of June.  Kubeka is in the hall here and my instructions are that Kubeka has applied for amnesty but we tried to get through with the relevant people in Cape Town and they say they cannot find his form, they've got no records that he has applied.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR MHLABA: And that will conclude the evidence of the applicant in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sesele, I take it you're not involved in this particular incident at all.  Mr Mapoma, any further evidence?

UNKNOWN: No, Chairperson, there is no further evidence in this particular matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you going to address us now, Mr Mhlaba?

MR MHLABA COMMITTEE: I can briefly address the Committee.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	The applicant has submitted an application which I submit is in accordance with the enabling legislation.  The applicant states that he committed this very offence with a political objective.  
	There is evidence here which remains undisputed, that he was a member of the SDU which was the formation of the ANC and there is further evidence that he was given instructions, or it was collective resolutions taken in their meetings that police and the members of the South African Defence Force were legitimate targets of the people and their political organisation.
	Mr Chairman, it was further stated that it was resolved that in order to protect the people and the community, they needed to find arms.  And the place where they could get those arms was to disarm the police and the members of the South African Defence Force.

CHAIRPERSON: And kill them?

MR MHLABA: And kill them.
	So it is on those basis, Mr Chairman, that I believe that the applicant here had the motive which is political.  It may appear in the eyes of the Committee that in view of the fact that the African National Congress had already suspended its armed struggle, the conduct of the applicant here was not justified but however, Mr Chairman, it is a very well-known fact that people who participated in political activities at various levels, especially in the level in which the applicant was participating, were not upraised of the decision of the National Executive Committee of the ANC.  	I can further add that depending on the sophistication of the actual perpetrator, people were not even keeping updated about the events which are well publicised in the media.  The Committee should, Mr Chairman I submit, view the conduct of the applicant to befit his circumstances, his level of sophistication and the level in which he participated in the formations.
	So it is my respectful submission that a political objective can be sometimes unreasonable but it remains such.  It is therefore my submission that the applicant has committed this offence with a political objective and consequently entitled to amnesty.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mhlaba.  Mr Mapoma, do you have any submissions to make?

UNKNOWN: No, Chairperson, no submissions.
NO SUBMISSIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much, Mr Mhlaba, Mr Mapoma.  I see now that it is quarter past eleven.  I think this would then be a convenient time for us to take the tea adjournment and after the tea adjournment we will commence with the other applications that are before us.  Thank you, we'll take the short tea adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlaba, with regard to the previous application, Mr Motlokoa's application, we'll reserve the decision and a written decision will be handed down in the near future.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS