Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

MR MOKOENA: In fact Mr Mpesheni's shack was just on a driveway when we entered Bekkersdal, so as a comrade we just entered there to give him what brings us, to give him the information what brings us to Bekkersdal in the early hours of the morning.
	After leaving Mr Mpesheni's shack we proceeded along the main road straight to Up-town.  There is a section they call Up-town, at Bekkersdal.  It is where the van Rooyens have a relative there.  So arriving there both kombis parked outside the yard and then myself, the van Rooyen brothers, we get into the house.  The family members were there.  Even myself I was a familiar friend there, they did know me.  Steven van Rooyen was the one who tried to explain to the house what brings us to Bekkersdal in the early hours of the morning.
	From then on we divided ourselves into two groups as there were comrades who did know the section of the X's just like Steven van Rooyen as my co-accused.  From the yard, from the relative's family of Mr van Rooyen the other comrades travelled along to go and start searching where the X sections end.  
	So we together with comrade Steven van Rooyen were going to start at the Up-front where the X sections were, where the X sections start.  We proceeded along the houses up until the first street of the X sections.  We go on that way asking from the residents, trying to give them their names, the names of the criminal gang members, their nicknames, trying to search whether they have any knowledge of the people we are looking for.  	We found that no-one had any knowledge of where they can be.  
	As we entered the second street of the X sections of the shacks, proceeding that way, asking from one person to anther about maybe knowing, maybe if they did know or if they did see some of the people, but there was nothing, there was no-one who did know about them. 
	As we were still proceeding that way, it was likely that the perpetrators or the gang members did realise us from far away because as we were proceeding to our surprise we found that there was a group of people trying to flee, starting to flee from the last street of the section and we were moving in the second street of the X sections.  
	As they spread up by jumping the fences and by going out of that shack, we tried to locate that shack by following those who were running away from that shack.  The two deceased, as the last street of that shack was facing the open veld leading to the Cook Two Mine(?) - as they say, there is a camp of a mine far away from where the zozos, from the last street of the X section, I together with my fellow comrades, Steve and Hendrik, we followed the deceased as they were running from the yard to the open veld of the, to the open veld where the whole thing happened after we reached them to that spot of the mine campers.
	We followed them from their shack.  We tried - as comrade Steve was moving in front of me, we tried to talk to them to stop, we are not fighting with them but they proceeded.  As the mission was to go and catch them or to catch them to find them, we followed them up until the campers of the mine.  
	There was a fence which was covering the premises of the mine.  They did jump that fence into the campus of the mine.  We followed them the very same way and we get ...[indistinct], there was a main gate far from where they have jumped that fence, we get along with that gate and now there was no way for them to can run away again because now we were in the premises of the mine and there was nowhere where they could go.  
	As they took - as they stand, I took it to mind that maybe they give up or they have no way now to can go.  Comrade Steve as he was in the forefront, he was the one who was trying to talk to Mr KK Nxaku while I was still on my way to where Steve was trying to talk with them. 
	As Steve was trying to get closer to Mr KK Nxaku, Mr KK Nxaku drew the gun and I screamed to Steve: "Steve, be alert, the guy is having a gun in his hand".  He tried to shoot but the gun refused to shoot, and it is when we pick up the stones and we throw them with the stones.  He tried to run away, he tried to shoot again but the gun never, no shot went off from the gun and we managed to grab him now.  
	Steve managed to hit him with a brick on the head, and as he fell down our aim was to grab him.  The gun was far away from where he fell down.  I kicked the gun as he was trying to grab the gun again.  I kicked it to that grass and it's when we started to kick him, when he was struggling to stand up.  He managed again to stand up and he pulled out the jungle knife and it was when we started to hit him with the stones.  We hit him with the stones and he tried to fight back that jungle knife.  We hit where - as it was not in the campus of the mine, it's was like a dump inside there, there were iron bars there, zincs and all that, so Steve hit him with an iron bar on the head and as he fell down I managed to take his jungle knife and it's when we started to stab him.  	I found that Mr Abram Maumakwe was already there when it happened, and it's when we hit him and we stabbed him, as Steve was hitting him with an iron bar.

MR KOOPEDI: Okay.  Now this is one of the deceased persons, do you know what happened to the other?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, they were not too far from each other when they ran away, so as to the forefront it was Steven van Rooyen and myself and Hendrik van Rooyen.  At the time Steve tried to talk to KK Nxaku, Hendrik van Rooyen was trying to talk to Boetie Sedisa.  I never had the full insight to what happened to Mr Sedisa but I finally came to see that it was ...[indistinct] that Mr van Rooyen and Mr Gustaff Morupisi ...[indistinct], the late comrade Tebogo, to attack Mr Sedisa.

CHAIRPERSON: How was he attacked?

MR MOKOENA: Like I've said, that during the time Mr van Rooyen pleads for a peace-talk with Mr Sedisa, I lost touch that time when he tried to talk to him because now I was near Mr KK Nxaku together with comrade Steven van Rooyen, so what happened there totally I don't have any knowledge but I have seen him after he was stabbed.

MS GCABASHE: Did his attack take place in the same mining camp, as you call it, you know at that dump?  Was it for both of them at the same place?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, they were there at the same camp and they were not far from each other, it was just a distance like this one, from here, from this table to that table there, the one there at the back.

MS GCABASHE: Now you earlier told us you had divided into two groups and you were in one group with Steven.

MR MOKOENA: Yes.

MS GCABASHE: Was Hendrik with the other group?

MR MOKOENA: Hendrik was with us to the same group.

MS GCABASHE: So is it just the one group that essentially attacked both, the second group that had started at the end of the X section was not involved in this attack?

MR MOKOENA: They were not involved, they came after we have already attacked the deceased.  During the time when that attack was still taking place they were still coming from behind.  And those who have gone to start at the end of the X sections with a kombi, the kombi did get into the open veld but it was blocked by that fence that divided the township and the mine campers.

MS GCABASHE: And then how many of you, in terms of numbers, were in this group that attacked both gang members?

MR MOKOENA: Actually we were eleven but the six of us did reach the deceased before the other five came by.

CHAIRPERSON: And how were you armed, you and your friends?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, of course we were armed, starting from where we were, from our township, specifically myself I had a knife when to went to Bekkersdal.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anybody have a firearm?

MR MOKOENA: No, we didn't have the firearms.

CHAIRPERSON: Now the actual attack on the second deceased, who was responsible for that?

MR MOKOENA: Pardon?