Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: During these riots there were many casesof incitement, damage to property, bombing and shooting.  Manyinnocent civilians suffered as a result.  I was not involved inany of these riots at this time and I was therefore not involvedin any cases where activists were killed or dealt with in anyother way.  I was also not directly not involved in the interrogationof activists.  At that stage I was second in command of the securitybranch in Springs.
 The events took place a long time ago.  My memory is not so goodanymore.  I can't remember specific events which took place duringthat time in which I was involved or which I ordered.  The UnitedDemocratic Front was established in 1983 and from 1983 they wagedfullscale guerilla war.  This was done by the internal wing ofthe ANC, namely the UDF, until approximately 1989.  The situationwas that there was a fullscale war which included death, tortureand other actions committed by activists as set out above in respectof the Soweto riots.  
 The South African government's approach was that there was atotal onslaught against the country at all levels and that wereinvolved in war. Security legislation was promulgated and otheremergency measures instituted.  This happened in 1985, at thestart of '85 and it was made permanent in June 1986.  During thisconflict South Africa was infiltrated by activists of the ANC/SACPalliance as well as the PAC.  These activists continued to tryand make the country ungovernable.  All the acts were aimed at
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destabilising the country.  Actions committed by them includednecklace murders, ordinary murders, assaults, robbery, arson,damage to property, intimidation, the organising of school boycottsand consumer boycotts, bombings and stonings.  These actions hadto be countered by the South African Police. 
 The South African Police were forced at that stage to act ina way which was not in line with normal conduct in times of peace. It was necessary to institute counter measures against the actionsof the activists and therefore to act outside normal policingchannels as well as outside the confines of the legal system. The nature of the events as they escalated therefore led to ablurring of the distinction between lawful actions and objectives. It was necessary, sanctioned and approved that the South AfricanPolice use methods and act in ways which would not be acceptablein normal peace times.
 The training of the South African Police also had to be adaptedto focus more on the military component of training as it wasnecessary for the daily functioning of the South African Police. This was especially applicable to people involved in the securitybranch of the South African Police.  The ultimate result was thatduring the period of 1983 to '89 was that there was in realitya fullscale, almost a conventional war in South Africa and thattechniques and actions were based on military models, militarystyle operations were performed and actions of a military naturewere undertaken by the SAP.  Use was further made of informersand agents relating to the gathering of information and the conveyingof such information.  Espionage was the order of the day.
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From the above it is clear that there were gross 
violations of human rights on both sides of the spectrum.  Onthe side of the ANC/SACP alliance, as well as the PAC the well-knownexamples of the necklace murders, consumer boycotts, school boycotts,strikes, arson, group murders, uprisings and riots in generalcan be clearly recalled by anyone who lived in South Africa during1983 to 1989.  
 It was also so that members of the South African Police, duringthat period had to be indoctrinated and to be persuaded that whathad to be done in the circumstances had to be done with one objectivenamely to protect and maintain the State and the National Partyso that the State would not be overthrown by the liberation movementsand to combat the onslaught of the ANC/SACP and PAC and otherliberation movements against the South African government. 
 Normal policing functions, therefore, took a back seat in thesecircumstances.  It was especially members of the security policewho were involved in operations and this was necessitated by virtueof the situation of war.  It was also expected of them to formthe backbone of the attack against the ANC/SACP and PAC.  Thesecurity police were in the crossfire of this war and acted like,for instance, select units and battalions in the Namibian bushwar.  A good example of this is for instance 32 battalion, specialforces and Koevoet as far as the police was concerned. 
 The security police in the Republic of South Africa found themselvesin exactly the same situation.  It was the security police whohad to counter the infiltration of terrorists and activists andwho had to combat the actions of terrorists and activists.  Forthat reason it was that members of the security police were mostinvolved in 
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multiple violations of human rights necessitated by the circumstancesand by virtue of the situation of war which existed.
 A distinction cannot be drawn between a conventional war anda guerilla war which was waged by the ANC/SACP and PAC in theRepublic of South Africa in that time.  It was only the methodsof warfare which differed but it cannot be denied that guerillawarfare was nothing other than just a different form of warfare.
 In the light of the above it was therefore necessary to eliminateinsurgents, terrorists and activists where the circumstances justifiedit.  If such persons were not eliminated in these circumstancesthey would not be permanently neutralised by way of the securitylegislation, detention and by means of normal legal procedures. The legal system was simply not equipped or able to deal withthese situations and to counter the soldiers of the ANC, SACPand PAC.  The struggle had to be waged on a military level, asa war, and for that reason the elimination of terrorists and activistswere seen as justified and were regarded as part of the struggle.
 There were active steps taken to prevent the killing of innocentpeople, so we acted in a preventive way.  If only the acts ofthe ANC, SACP and PAC activists and terrorists are taken intoconsideration one can come to no other conclusion than that therewas a fullscale war in the country.  Acts included, amongst others,various bomb explosions such as a motor car bomb in Church Street,Pretoria, various other car bomb explosions, limpet mine explosionsand incidences of sabotage, landmine explosions, murder and otheracts of terror.  I attach statistics in 
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support of what I have just said.

UNKNOWN: Could you just stop there Brigadier. Mr Chairman right at the back of the application there are certainstatistics attached to the application which deals with all theincidents which we want to refer you to.  I do have extra copiesavailable with me for other people who might be interested inthese copies.  I hope I have enough this time.  Perhaps on couldintroduce this as Exhibit E.

ADV DE JAGER: Are you referring to page 196 - 208?

UNKNOWN: Yes Mr Chairman.
EXHIBIT E HANDED IN - STATISTICS

UNKNOWN: Brigadier these statistics were gainedfrom the submission of The Establishment for Equality before theLaw, made to the Truth Commission, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Can I take you to the statistics on thelast page, from page 196 please.  You don't have to refer to eachand every case, I just want to take you to the first page, itdeals with motor car bombs, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: And it starts with a motor bomb, the ChurchStreet bomb.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: 25, 1983?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: On the next page it deals with prominentincidences of limpet mine explosions?

UNKNOWN: Yes that's correct.