Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-09

MR SHANE: Mr Chairman, I wonder if we could proceed with the next application?  This will be the one of Bongani Nkosi?
	Mr Chairman, it will be found from pages 132 to 156.  There are three separate application forms.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nkosi, what language would you prefer to use?

BONGANI NKOSI: Zulu.

BONGANI NKOSI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please be seated.

MR SHANE: Mr Nkosi, you applied for amnesty for ...

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shane, before you continue.  You made me a number of promises, to provide me with a number of ID numbers.  You fail again to do that.  You still owe me from previous applicants.

MR SHANE: I will see you about that Mr Chairman.  First of all, Mr Nkosi, your identity number stated on your application form 670430 5332 00 3, is that the right number?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes.

MR SHANE: You seek amnesty for the following:  on your form you talk about the day a Mr Vilakhazi was shot by the SADF.  Do you mean in that, in that Section, that you apply for amnesty for the unlawful possession of weapons, AK47's and bullets, because you don't say you were involved in the shooting of Mr Vilakhazi?

BONGANI NKOSI: I apply for amnesty because of unlawful possession of firearm.

MR SHANE: And in so doing, you are applying for amnesty for your possession of firearms from late 1992 until after the elections, is that correct?  You were in possession of firearms during the so-called war in Tokoza on a continuous basis?

BONGANI NKOSI: I won't say about the duration of possession of firearms, but all I can say is that I am asking for amnesty for unlawful possession of a firearm.

MR SHANE: Right.  Is it one firearm or more than one firearm?

BONGANI NKOSI: On that particular day, it was only one firearm.

MR SHANE: Yes, and is that the only day that you possessed firearms, or did you possess firearms on other days?

BONGANI NKOSI: This firearm to me was more like my girlfriend, because I loved this firearm so much.  All the time it was with me.  It was always with me.

ADV GCABASHE: Mr Nkosi, you have applied for amnesty for unlawful possession of a firearm when Mr Vilakhazi was shot.  You have also applied for amnesty in respect of the firearm or firearms that you carried in the period that you were an SDU member.  We are talking about the second set, is it one firearm that you carried during that period, or were there a number of firearms that you carried during that period?  That is the only clarity we are asking for.

BONGANI NKOSI: I am trying to explain that I am applying because I was in possession of only one firearm on that particular day.

ADV GCABASHE: We are not talking about that particular day.  We are talking about the second unlawful possession of firearm or firearms you are applying for.  We are distinguishing it from the Vilakhazi incident.
	We are saying all of the other times that you carried a firearm or firearms, we don't know if you carried just the one or if you used different ones, and we are trying to make sure we give you amnesty for what you seek amnesty for.  Right now we don't know if you are talking about one firearm or a number of firearms.

BONGANI NKOSI: Let me try and explain this.  The firearm that I had on that particular day, was always with me, all the time.  That is the firearm that I am talking about.
	I wouldn't give this firearm to anyone else, this firearm was always with me, all the time.

CHAIRPERSON: During the period of 1992 to 1994, how many girlfriends did you have that you were so proud of?

BONGANI NKOSI: I was a Casanova, I was just fighting, I didn't have time for girls.

CHAIRPERSON: You referred to your pistol or your firearm, as a girlfriend.  All I am asking, in the period 1992 to 1994, how many firearms did you have, did you keep in your possession, never mind whether you shot anybody with it or not or is it only that one you had for the whole period?

BONGANI NKOSI: I was just using this, I was only using this AK47 that I used to refer to as boy of Khuzwayo.  That was the only firearm that I was using.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are making an application for the possession of one firearm for the period 1992 to 1994?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: As well as for bullets for that firearm?

BONGANI NKOSI: I would change the bullets.  I wasn't using only one round, I would buy more.

MR SHANE: Yes, bullets, right.  The next thing you are applying for amnesty for is that during or about October 1993, you were involved in the killing of an IFP member.  This happened in the veld between Letsogo Shopping Centre and Lekwano Street?  This person was shot with an AK47, is that correct?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: And you are also applying for a murder that happened on or about  June or July 1993.  Here an IFP member was stoned by members of the SDU and then burnt and you took part in that?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Your next application for amnesty is one of a general nature, it doesn't specify any particular offence.

INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please speak closer to the microphone.

MR SHANE: The next act that you apply for amnesty, that is contained on 141 Mr Chairman, there you say you want amnesty for all acts committed by Self Defence Units and their Commanders in accordance with orders given by the Central Command.  That is not a specific thing that you are asking for amnesty for, and do you withdraw that particular application?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, if I am allowed to withdraw, we can withdraw, but if the Committee wants me to continue with it, it is fine.

MR SHANE: Then you also apply for amnesty for the following, this all relates to arson.  There were six different acts of arson, in fact, sorry, eight different acts of arson that you specifically apply for.
	These Mr Chairman, are all contained page 148, 149, 150.  Is it correct that in all those acts of arson, there was no life lost and no injuries caused to anybody?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, they were cowards, they were running away, that is true.

MR SHANE: Mr Nkosi, can you, is it correct you were a member of the ANC and the SDU in Mandela Section, and you were a Commander of that SDU?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shane, are you not going to identify these places that were burnt down?

MR SHANE: Mr Chairman, I want to just get his political credentials and then we will deal specifically with the acts, if I may.
	Is it also correct that not only were you the Commander, but you were the overall Commander of the Self Defence Units in Tokoza, you were in charge of the SDUs of Tokoza?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, I was a Chief Commander.

MR SHANE: Now, we have already dealt in detail with your possession of weapons, we will now deal with - can you give details of what happened during October 1993 when you participated in the killing of this IFP member in a veld, that is between Letsogo Shopping Centre and Lekwano Street, this person was shot with an AK47.  Can you explain exactly what happened, how this happened?

BONGANI NKOSI: It was in the morning, I was in my house, I used to stay in a certain house.  I heard a noise outside, I went out.  I was wearing nothing on my upper body.
	I saw people chasing a person.  I enquired as to what was happening.  They told me, the people who were there, told me that it was an informer that was there to survey the place therefore they were chasing him.
	I went back to my house.  Under the table, I took my AK47 that I used to refer to as Alfred Khuzwayo.  I went outside.  They brought this person, I gave them the firearm, they misfired four times and Sicelo also misfired with four bullets.
	I took back my firearm, I bridged this firearm.  He was at a distance of about 20 meters.  I shot only once on the head and he fell.    I took my firearm, I took cover.  I placed it in my office, under the table.

CHAIRPERSON: You gave your AK47 to other people?