Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We don't know each other.  We began to knoweach other immediately after this incident.   Mrs Makope triedto find me through the directory, after seeing on the newspaperthat our children were killed, so we don't know each other.  Westarted to know each other during this case.

MR CURRIN: When did you hear that they had been killed?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We learnt in January on the 28th they werekilled.   We knew in 1996.
5A

MR CURRIN: /...
MR CURRIN 420 E MAAKE

MR CURRIN: This year?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: This year.

MR CURRIN: Do you have a husband?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I don't have a husband.

MR CURRIN: And who supports you?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I have nobody who takes care of me and I amnot working.  He has his own child.

MR CURRIN: Is that your husband?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Jackson's son.

MR CURRIN: So Jackson had a son.

ELIZABETH MAAKE: His daughter is 11 years old.

MR CURRIN: So Jackson had a very small daughter of abouta year old when he disappeared, is that what you are saying?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, that's true.  Because now she is 11 yearsold, she was born on the 21st July.

MR CURRIN: And have you been looking after that daughtersince the time that Jackson disappeared?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I am the one who is responsible for his supportand education.  I was working at that time and I was able to takecare of her that time.  I completed a year without working.

MR CURRIN: The mother of the child, do you know whereshe is?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, I know.  She is just a girlfriend, butI know where she stays, but the child stays with me.  She doesn'tstay with the mother, she stays with me.

MR CURRIN: And you have full financial responsibilityfor that child.

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, that's true.  I am taking care of her.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CURRIN

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Is it all?
5A

MR CURRIN: /...
MR CURRIN 421 E MAAKE

MR CURRIN: There are other people that may wish to askyou
questions.  If you could just wait for a short while.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Jackson's father still alive?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He died long ago.

CHAIRPERSON: And are you absolutely clear that your son didnot possess a motor car?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He didn't have a car.  I haven't seen him atall with a car.   Even his brothers don't have cars now.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether he could drive?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I haven't seen him driving a car.  Even hisfriends didn't have cars.  They were always on foot all the time.

CHAIRPERSON: What work did you do to support yourself andyour family?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I was working at (indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: It is contractual work.  I was working at (indistinct). I started working there in 1980 up to last year.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of work did you do?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We were cleaning.

CHAIRPERSON: Homes or offices or what?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We were doing the offices, at the factory.

MR DU PLESSIS: Mrs Maake, the workyou were doing, what hours did you work?  When did you start work?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: 1980, Sir.  I stopped working last year.

CHAIRPERSON: What time of the day do you start work and whattime do you finish?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We were starting at six o'clock.   I am knockingoff at around two or around one, but at times I worked the
5A whole/...
MR DU PLESSIS 422 E MAAKE
whole night.

CHAIRPERSON: I asked you your hours of work.  Did you startat six o'clock in the morning or six o'clock in the evening?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Six o'clock in the evening.

CHAIRPERSON: (Question inaudible)

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Around one to two.  It depends when we completeour duty.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did you go home after two o'clock?  Whendid you arrive home?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: We were going home in the morning, we weretaking the train to home in the morning.

MR DU PLESSIS: What time did you usually arrive at home?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Usually arrived at around half past four.

MR DU PLESSIS: And where were you during the day usually?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: At times I used to sleep, from there I willdo the house chores.   Because I used to take the child to thecreche, so I'll be able to do the household work.

MR DU PLESSIS: And your son Jackson, at what time in themorning did he leave for school?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He was going to school around seven, at timesquarter to seven.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did you take him to school?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He was going independently.

MR DU PLESSIS: And when did he return from school usually?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: At times two to half past three.

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes, and other times?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: That was his usual time.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Mrs Maake, do you still have in yourpossession school reports of Jackson Maake, of your child, ofyour son?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: There were people who came to look for his
5A reports/...
MR DU PLESSIS 423 E MAAKE
reports so they took them from me in town.

MR DU PLESSIS: Who were those people?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I don't know the person who took them.  Theyjust said I should go to town and take them so they have giventhem to me.

MR DU PLESSIS: So you don't know who you gave the schoolreports to.  Somebody came to ask you for the school reports andyou gave the reports to them, is that right?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: It is a CID person where we made the statementin town.

MR DU PLESSIS: Is it the same person you made a statementto pertaining to the death of your son?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: The person who came to us for forms is thesecond one.  The person who took the statement is Izodwa.

MR DU PLESSIS: (Question inaudible)

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Izodwa.

MR DU PLESSIS: Is that his name?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He is working in Johannesburg, in the Johannesburgoffices.  I don't know his real name.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did he say why he wanted the reports?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He said they are wanted as whether Jacksonwas a student.   Because others are working.

MR DU PLESSIS: Was that this year?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, it is not long.  It is this year.  Approximatelytwo months back.

MR DU PLESSIS: Who looked after the little baby at night?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I am no more working, so I am taking care ofthe baby.

MR DU PLESSIS: I am asking at the time.

ELIZABETH MAAKE: He was taken care of by my sister when I wasworking.  And during the day I took him to creche.
5A

MR DU PLESSIS: /...
MR DU PLESSIS 424  E MAAKE

MR DU PLESSIS: Was that the case during the time justbefore your son went away?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I don't understand the question, Sir.

MR DU PLESSIS: I am asking who looked after the baby duringthat time just before Jackson disappeared.

ELIZABETH MAAKE: I was taking care of this baby before Jacksondied.

MR DU PLESSIS: I mean at night when you worked, who waslooking after the baby at that time?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: My sister was taking care of the baby at thattime.

MR DU PLESSIS: Do you know what Jackson did at night whenyou were not at home?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Usually I would find him asleep.  Then I wouldwake him up and say go and wash and go to school.  At times hewould wake himself up.

MR DU PLESSIS: Do you know what he did earlier in theevening until about twelve o'clock say?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: (No audible reply)

MR DU PLESSIS: I didn't hear the answer.  Can I repeatthe question?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, repeat the question, Sir.

MR DU PLESSIS: Do you know what he did during the earlypart of the evenings when you were at work?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Do you mean Jackson?

MR DU PLESSIS: I mean Jackson, your son.

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, I know.  His aunt used to tell me thathe used to study in the evening.

MR DU PLESSIS: Was she living with you?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes,  she was living with me.

MR DU PLESSIS: Was the aunt living with you?
5A

ELIZABETH MAAKE: /...
MR DU PLESSIS 425  E MAAKE

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Yes, she was living with me.

MR DU PLESSIS: Mrs Maake, you don't know what your sondid during the day, do you?

ELIZABETH MAAKE: Do you mean during the day?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes, during the day.