Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-09-08

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman, with your leave if I could move onto the next incident.  The next incident is the Khayelitsha Train Station Attack, with appears from pages 9 through to 23 of the bundle, Mr Chairman.
	Were you involved in this attack at all Mr Tanda?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: No.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You are mentioned as part of this attack, did you know about it?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: No, I was not involved.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you know who was involved or who were involved?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: You see, I was not part of the planning.  Even in the execution of the attack I was not there.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you know the persons involved in the attack?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes, I knew Andile as Thabo, and I knew Chicken Licken as Chicken Licken, and I knew Maka Songe as DK.  I want to confirm that I know them as APLA members.

NORMAN ARENDSE: The last matter that I want to refer to is the one involving the Guguletu Police Attack at NY108.  Chairperson, it is not referred to specifically as one of the incidents before you.  If you look at the index on the front page, it is not one of the four incidents but it is mentioned by Mr Tanda in his application on page 32, paragraph 9(a) III.  There's reference there to Newcastle, which is the Newcastle Crazy Beat Disco matter, then the Khayelitsha, Zola Budd Road or Drive matter which we've dealt with, and then one sees 108 Road (Guguletu), and then plus Old Cross Road, which is the one which we've also dealt with already.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Just for the record Mr Tanda, I'm just showing you a copy of your application, is that in your handwriting?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: No, I was assisted by Mpahlele.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is the 108 Road that you see there, and in brackets (Guguletu), is the incident involving the attack on the police at NY108?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The 108 issue - oh, the 108 is the road	 from Guguletu and connected the one to the airport through Nyanga Cross Roads and so on.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now is it correct that this particular attack or operation was carried out in January 1993?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You were in charge of a unit which comprised Shiceka, the person referred to by you as Chicken Licken and one, DK, and also a person by the name of Scorpion, is that correct?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The commander of the unit was Chicken Licken.  Oh, the one commanding Chicken Licken, DK and Scorpion was Andile Shiceka, the one I knew as Thabo at the time and Scorpion are involved in the operation because at the time I did not want to use people who were based in Cape Town in my unit.  So that when any person is wanted by the police that person would not be able to leave Cape Town easily.  So it is Andile Shiceka who ran the unit.

NORMAN ARENDSE: But in the operation itself in January 1993, it was only you and Scorpion that were involved in the operation?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What about the other names that he mentioned, why are they mentioned then?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Perhaps Mr Tanda, you can just repeat why the other names are mentioned to you, Shiceka, Chicken Licken and DK, why were they not involved in the actual operation?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The reason, I only wanted someone to assist me as part of my manpower, I did not want a unit.  You see, the reason why all of these words are mentioned is because, so as to explain where Scorpion was coming from, which unit he was coming from.  All of them were my visitors.

CHAIRPERSON: So to say that in January 1993, yourself, Shiceka, Chicken Licken, DK and Scorpion were involved, that's not correct?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: DK, Chicken Licken and Andile were not there, it was myself and Scorpion.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is it - just to correct that because I probably put it wrongly to you, you were together as a group, you yourself, Shiceka, Chicken Licken and DK and Scorpion, you were together as a group but in terms of carrying out the operation it was only you and Scorpion who were involved in this particular operation?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, during this operation you attacked a yellow police van, is that correct, in NY108?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That is correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: What time of the day was it?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: It was late in the night.  I'm not sure about the time and the date.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Why did you attack the van?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The intention was to get arms as we knew that police were patrolling with arms.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you decide to attack the van?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes.  I am the one who took that decision, though I got the mandate from Mzala.  As I've already explained I was responsible for APLA soldiers who were coming.
	I was there to welcome them and train them so as to be ready for the operation and I had to ensure that they were armed.  I would select the target to be disarmed.  I later heard that one policeman died, the one who was driving.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You were armed, were you armed with an AK47 or with an R4 rifle?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I was armed with an R4 rifle and I gave another R4 rifle to Scorpion.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did both of you shoot at the van?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: No, I'm the only one who shot at the van.  He was there to assist me if there was any resistance or shooting back.  Because in such an operation it is important not to act at the same time if it's not necessary.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So would it be correct to say that you take sole responsibility for the death of this one policeman during this attack?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes, that is correct.  Though the APLA have taken all the responsibility for any actions of APLA, but as the commander on that particular day, on this particular operation I'm taking the responsibility.  I am even prepared to meet with the families of the victims.

NORMAN ARENDSE: How do you feel about what happened during this attack, now that you know that one policeman, probably a black policeman, was killed during that attack?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: As I've already said initially, I heard that something happened during apartheid regime but now it's a new era.  I am prepared to shake hands with the families of the victims because I know now that we are in the new era, we are no longer fighting.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Were you arrested in connection with this incident?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes.

NORMAN ARENDSE: When were you arrested and where were you when you were arrested?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I was arrested in 1994 during the attack at Newcastle.  That was one of the cases that we used to appear in the Mitchell's Plain Court.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So you also appeared in court in connection with this case on several occasions?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And this case too was withdrawn against you?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes, that is correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Do you know why it was withdrawn against you?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: As I was not in a position to explain that before, I can only speculate.  During the times of apartheid the lives of the black people didn't have any value.  Maybe that was one of the reasons because the police who were involved in that case didn't attend the court.

CHAIRPERSON: Does that mean that even black policemen didn't attach any value to black life?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The reason for me to say that, in this case of Newcastle ...[intervention]

INTERPRETER: Can the speaker please be requested to speak a little bit louder and in front of the mike.  It is very difficult for the interpreters to hear.

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The reason for me to say that, in most cases that affected whites at the time were fully attended easily but those that were affecting the black people, they were not even there to attend.  They were just using the black policemen to defend the apartheid regime.