Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-10

MR LAX: /Mr Mseleku.

MR LAX: Mr Mseleku.  They chased him away from his office, because he was the one who was telling them that, "We mustn't fight.  We are all blacks."  They went to Madadeni.  This other person was staying at Madadeni, and they destroyed my household, and there was no one because my sister was in training and her husband was at work.  Sergeant Komandu, who was handling the case, said there was nothing that he could say or do because whites refused him to arrest those people who killed my husband.  So he said there was nothing he could do.  That's how he left, and up until today nothing happened.  I am suffering.  My husband left me with kids.  My first-born finished her matric in 1993.  I can't pay for his tertiary education.  Now he is staying at home doing nothing.  Whatever money that I was left with I bought a new house because I didn't have a house any more.  We had planned to stay in a new house, but that - everything vanished when this thing started, so I took my money and I bought a new house.  I am not working at the moment.  I have got stress, I really can't work.  My adult child has also finished matric last year and she is at home.  Another one is also doing matric, and the same thing will happen with her.  After finishing her matric she'll stay at home because I don't have money to pay for their education.  The mine people promised that they will take care of my children, but they never did.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... a pension in respect of your husband's death?

WITNESS:   Yes, they said they will me give me money, and then when they gave me the money it was too little.  They aren't supporting me.  My children are now finished school, and I can't pay for their education.  When my husband was still alive he could take care of my children.

MR LAX: Have you been back to them at the mine and asked them whether they can increase what they pay you, or tried to negotiate with them at all, or has that been too difficult for you?

WITNESS:   No, it was difficult for me to do so.  I tried to apply for money and the lawyer ate that money.  I went to another lawyer in Durban and he also did the same thing.

MR LAX: Do you remember their names?

WITNESS:   One is Paul Crawford.  Mrs Joseph took me to this other lawyer, because this other lawyer is working with Mrs Joseph's husband, so I don't really know his name.  I didn't receive anything up until today.  He is running away with this money.

MR LAX: I need to ask you one or two questions just to try and clarify the facts, the long story you've told us, and I wonder if you could try and help us if it's possible to answer the questions.  Was your husband a member of any trade union at all?  Was there a trade union on the mine?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't.  They were not allowed to be a member of union.  There was no politic involved in that area.  Maybe they were going to start, but at that time there was no politic going on in that area.

MR LAX: You've said that this trouble all started around increases, and people's demands for increases on the mine.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Yes, because people were fighting because they were not happy that they would get R250,00 a month.  But Iscor employees were getting better.  They were under Iscor, because in that mine it was Durnacol and Iscor.

MR LAX: You said that they went to Pretoria to some place,

MR LAX: and I didn't catch the name of the place that they went to.

WITNESS:   Iscor in Pretoria.

MR LAX: Now, you've said that this policeman, Sergeant Komandu, was investigating the case.  Where - which police station was he from?

WITNESS:   Dannhauser Police Station.

MR LAX: And as far as you know no one has ever been arrested for your husband's murder?

WITNESS:   No one.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... happened.

WITNESS:   Yes, but they were peeping through the windows because they were scared, because people knew that they were killing him.

MR LAX: Do you know whether Komandu got the names of who the perpetrators were, because it seems from what you said to us that he wasn't allowed to arrest people?  You said his superiors wouldn't let him arrest people.

WITNESS:   One person was taken by Mr Elser, and he is the one who sent people that they must come and kill my husband, he's there.  And these people who killed my husband were just new employees of the mine.  I am not quite sure whether he's the mine manager.  He was working with Mr de Wet.  I am not sure whether he was a labour control.

MR LAX: You say that Mr Elser was the one who sent someone to go and see where your husband was.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... Madadeni, and it was then some time after that that all your possessions were burnt at your sister's house.  What month was that?  Do you remember?  If you're not sure really it's okay.  We can try and work ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   May/June.

MR LAX: It was May/June?

WITNESS:   Between May and June.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR LAX: Mrs Masiba, you have said something about Mr Pius.  Who is Pius?

WITNESS:   He is Mr Khumalo from Madadeni.  He was the one who talked with the whites.  Pius and Zondo were the ones who were working with the whites, because Pius was educated.  He was getting along with whites because he was educated and he could speak English.

COMMISSIONER: You spoke a lot about what happened in the beginning before you had to leave the mine, and you said that some people came and fetched you in trucks and then took you back, and so on.  You spoke about a big car.  Do you remember that?  You said that the Zulus threatened you, and then you were going to flee, and some people came with a vehicle, and you got onto that vehicle, and they said they were taking you to a safe place.  Who was "they"?  Who were these people?

WITNESS:   We ran to Madadeni.  One car came.  It was driven by Mr Khumalo.  Not the same Mr Khumalo who is the secretary, but another Khumalo who was working also at No 12 shaft.  When he saw us he drove, and my sister said, "No, nothing will happen here because here there are police."  And at my sister's place there was one policeman.  And when they came there the dog started barking and a neighbour called and said, "Eh, I am so worried because last night there were people around your house," and then they ran away.

COMMISSIONER: I am talking about the time when - after the first trouble.

WITNESS:   This big truck was driven by a white man, and there was a small car behind it, and there was also a helicopter, and a white man said we must come and get inside the car because people are coming to kill us inside the house.  If you had left your pot in the fire you would leave it like that.  There was no time because we were all scared.  This was a grey car.  We got inside the car, and when we got into No 5 the buses were there, and they said we must get inside the buses.  If we don't want to the dogs were going to bite us.  I refused to get inside the bus because I didn't want to leave my household goods behind.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... Mhlanga.

WITNESS:   I met Mhlanga and I told him - I gave him my keys and I said he must take care of my belongings.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... these people were soldiers that came to help you, to take you out of that place.  So if I understand you correctly the people that came with this very big car were soldiers.  You said it was a grey vehicle looking like a soldier's vehicle.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Those people were sitting at playground.  They didn't want to go back to the hostel.  They wanted to get inside our houses and kill everything, everyone.