Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

THOMAS MANTHATA: I was a member of the Advisory Board.  As I was a member of the Advisory Board I was leading the God's nation.  I didn't want the God's nation to be misled.  I wanted them to have a true life.  The men I used to work with, they were not good people to me.  They used to fight me and they used to report me to the detectives and they reported that I was a communist.  When they said I was a communist, it was then that the Sergeant started searching me and took all my papers but they didn't  get anything.  They didn't get anything.  The second time when he came with another Sergeant, Sergeant Heys, when he came to me, they searched again they searched.  They took some papers that were written Sesotho but they couldn't read in Sesotho.  They took those papers and said we're going to take them away and ask them to read them ahead and we'll bring them back to you later on.  After that the detectives came.  There were lots of detectives who came.  I saw a lot of people coming to my house and they said they were detectives and they were, and they searching and they came to me.  They said they'd come to search and  I said, go ahead and search.  When they came, they were with I think it's Mr Morotoba.  When they searched they had a stick which they were sticking the papers with and I had put it away and he said, is this thing for holding a gun ?  I said, no, I'm not involved in those kind of things but they continued to search.  They failed because they didn't find anything.  They were fighting with me and they said I was not telling the truth and I was telling the truth and I was prepared to fight for the truth and to die for the God's nation.  I cannot just do anything for myself.  I was working for the God's nation and they said I must speak the truth.  Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much Mr Manthata.  That's all.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

MS SEROKE: Mr Manthata, when you were banned and you said you didn't want to leave, what happened ?  And when you refused to go when you were banished, what did they say to you ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: At that time, there was an officer which I really didn't like.  When he came to visit people, they wouldn't even great him according to the old law.   And now, it was the difficulty that I face from those White people, because at times, they would fight me.  There's a child who came to me, who said, who want, whom I wanted to register.  They refused to register my child.  Other people used to be able to register their children but with me, they were fighting me, because of the truth.  I didn't want them to trouble other people and it was very, very difficult.  They wanted to banish me, to chase me away but they failed.  When I came here in Messina, I came in Messina in 1919.  I was only about twelve years.  Yes, I was about twelve years.  I came when I was a very young boy and I didn't even have a home when I came here in Messina.  Now, these foreigners came to harass me,  Auret.  And Auret didn't want to allow people here and this police came to me and the office people are the ones who used to harass me but because of God they eventually had to give up.  Some of them went away.  Some of them died and some of them are still alive but God is still keeping me alive to be on earth.  Thank you.

MS SEROKE: We thank you N'tate.

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Commission) N'tate, you spoke about a letter when you started.  What did this letter say ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Witness)  I do not know what this letter said.  I wouldn't know because  I didn't say they must write this letter to me but they just produced this letter and said, here is the letter.  I said I did not want to be involved in this letter because I didn't write, the letter and I had never written any letter.  If I write a letter, I write my own name and write the address but that letter I didn't know where it had come from and I told them I didn't know that letter so he took that letter, straight and took that letter and he folded it and put it in his pocket.

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Commission)  So they didn't read this letter to you ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Witness)  No, they didn't read this letter to me.  It was their secret that they were trying to trick me with but they failed, because they were saying I was teaching people. It's only teachers who teach children to read but I also taught  the people the truth what was their right.

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Commission)  During that time when you were a member of the Advisory Board, what were you doing for people ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Witness)  I used to do a lot of things.  God advised me to help these people.  That is why I'm still alive to-day and all, most of those people are dead but I'm still alive but I think God put me there to solve the problems that people had and that they must have a better life.  That's what I think.

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Commission)  What were the problems that the Messina people had during those times ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Witness)  There were lots and lots of problems.  We used to fight.  When the compound people who used to come to Nancefield, they used to give them little papers instructing them what to do and if they didn't have these papers, the police would, would arrest them.  So we fought that, that when people go ho, go to their homes or go to Nancefield, they shouldn't be given permits.  So we used to tell those people.  We told them we no longer want this little pieces of papers and permits.  So we helped those compound people quite a lot in Nancefield.  There were lots of problems.  Sometimes people would come there.  Before 9 o'clock there would be police all over there with the dogs.  They would let the dogs on people to bite them.  I don't know that time.  I was still as escort.  When I was acting escort, they brought a person from Munjasa who was bitten by a dog and my heart was very sore.  I then realized that they were very cruel to people.  They used to let dogs on people to be bitten by dogs.  There were a lot of people who were bitten by dogs and I said to Nancefield and Messina people, they will not tell the truth.  It was scared.  I don't know why are those people scared,  because I think we must go ahead and those who want to stay behind will stay behind.

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Commission)  If you could just answer briefly.  Where you ever arrested ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Witness)  Yes, I was arrested.  They said I wasn't working.  It was because of the Advisory Board.  I was very active in the Advisory Board but I wasn't employed and my sister's child was working at the office.  So they said, this person must earn pension in 1966.  That's when I earned a pension and then those problems that I have eventually were relieved.  Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata, just a few more questions.  This Nancefield Advisory Board that you're talking about.  Was it an organization that came out of the people or was it something that was created by the local Council in this area ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: This Advisory Board.  Before this Advisory Board we had a Residents Association.  With another man, we established this and with a another man who was a Reverend in the Gospel Church and I realized that this man was powerful when we started this job together.  We used to fight these things together and other elderly people joined this Residents Association and then they agreed with us and they were by us so that they would solve all those many problem.  After that, this Advisory Board was only established much later, in 1939 it was in November.  That's when the Advisory Board started.  Before it there was no White person.  There were only Black people and Mr Goosen was the first to be the superintendent of the community.

DR RANDERA: So it was set up by, by the Council in this area, rather than from the community itself.  Am I right ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I didn't understand.

DR RANDERA: Sorry, Sir.