Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-30

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I don't think that is what happened.  I repeat, these people were sitting around the table with boxes of cigarettes - that a person requested a cigarette from me it's not true, they had their own cigarettes.  And even where they were drinking, there's a place selling cigarettes - nobody asked me for a cigarette, it was just a disguise so that it is not known the real depth of the fight.

MR MTHEMBU: The people who were with the deceased at that time testified in court that prior to the fight between yourself and the deceased, the deceased did not have any weapon with him, can you make any comment?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: They were saying that maybe because they were misleading the court but according to me I took the knife from the deceased, he attacked me from behind and we battled until I got the knife from him.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Gwete the victim in the attempted murder charge, testified in court that when went to enquire from you why you were stabbing the deceased, without saying any word you instantly attacked him and stabbed him on the neck.  Do you have any comment to make?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I stabbed that chap at the time when they were attacking me, he was injured before the deceased was injured because the deceased was holding me from behind.  That I stabbed him behind, then he came to ask me thereafter - it's a lie.

ADV DE JAGER: When the deceased was grabbing hold of you from behind, was he using both hands?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Yes, but just towards the shoulders.

ADV DE JAGER: And in which hand did he have the knife at that stage?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I would not say because his hands were joined together, now it would be impossible to tell whether it was on the left or the right hand.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were the other three who were attacking whilst the deceased was holding your hands from behind, armed with any kind of weaponry?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I could not see properly because we were outside and it was already dark but I think some of them had weapons.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How were you attacked by them - you've just stated that they attacked you?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: They attacked me when we were leaving the tavern, before we could get out of the gate they came from behind and they accused me of having chased one of their companions which is someone I do  not know.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But how were you attacked?  Were you slapped, were you kicked?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: The tall guy started with the assault - I think he's Gwete, he's the first person who slapped me and the rest followed and the deceased also held me by my hands so that Gwete could be in a position to hit me.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I merely wanted to find out what form the attack assumed, whether you were attacked physically by the use of their hands, whether you were kicked.  Are you not in a position to tell us?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: They used their hands and they kicked me because four of them were assaulting me, the one was holding me and the three were assaulting me.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How long did this attack last?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: It took quite some time until when I managed to grab the deceased's knife and they dispersed and when they ran away I also ran away.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So when you took the deceased knife they ran away?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: After taking the knife from the deceased I started stabbing the person who was in front of me - I think it is Gwete and after stabbing him he moved back and the deceased came and he acted as if he was the leader, he was showing ...[indistinct].  And we battled and I overpowered him because I had a knife and when he fell the rest of them ran away.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But at the time of you stabbing the deceased, where were the other two?  You've mentioned that you started with Gwete, stabbed him on the hand and where were the other two when you were stabbing the deceased?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I think they were in the vicinity because when this incident took place they were surrounding me.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, and they being in the vicinity they stood there and did nothing when initially they had started by attacking you, they actually stood back and watched you stabbing the deceased?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I don't think so, I think because I had the knife in my hand it was not simple to approach me as they did at first because I now had a knife in my possession.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You really believe these people had been sent to kill you?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I believe so because we were staying next to the hostel and that is the stronghold of the IFP, now I think these people have a contact with Machangani because Machangani used to visit that area and he was a member of the Three Million - I think they were sent.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you Mr Mthembu, you may proceed.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Committee member.  Mr Mohasa, I would like to refer you to page 64 of the bundle, it will be line 7.
"Mpho reported it to him and to his comrades.  They decided to ignore it, he then left the house, he went to the toilet and when came out of the toilet the accused confronted him.  The accused had a knife in his hand and wanted to stab him with the knife.
	He managed to evade the accused, ran out of the gate and the accused pursued him.  In the street the accused turned around - all the people were still inside the house at that stage"
What is your comment regarding these two paragraphs that I've just read to you?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I've never chased anybody, I looked for Bennie and I was told Bennie was not in.  I did not even go out to the toilet, I only went out of the house when I was leaving.  That I chased someone of them, it's a disguise to put the blame on me.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohasa, do you have anything further you wish to add regarding this application?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I really request the Committee to forgive me because what took place was as a result of the situations of that day and I did not know that my going to Daveyton would end up in this fashion.  I was not sent to Daveyton to kill, I was sent there to meet the SDU's to talk about the working together, not to kill people.
	And this incident really embarrasses me, I am really sorry - it was not my intention, I was just defending myself.  Maybe if I did not defend myself I could be the dead one.  That will be all from me.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, members of the Committee, I first want to approach as in advance that I'm going to be referring to certain pages now and then, it may seem to be inconvenient for the Committee members to be paging in that way but I've no choice.
	Mr Mohasa, I want you to have a look at the letter on page 29, there is a letter sent to our offices responding to questions by your legal representative and the letter is signed by your legal representative at the end.  I just want you to have a look at it and tell me whether that is the letter that was written during consultation with you.

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Yes, that's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, that letter is a response to our letter sent to you which will be found on page 96 of the bundle - for the convenience of the Committee.  On page 96 of the bundle, those are the questions sent to him and he responded by way of the letter on page 29.
	Now lets go to your answer number 2 on that letter, page 29 where you were asked whether you knew the victims and your answer was:
"Applicant does not know however, he believed that the two victims had been hired or sent to kill him"
Do you see that?  Do you see that?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, I don't know if the - the witness uses his own language and I don't know whether he's able to read English.