Amnesty Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1999-05-11

MR TERRE'BLANCHE IN REPLY: Yes, thank you very much Mr Chairperson, I would just like to again repeat that my total political conviction rightly or wrongly is being driven by my education emotionally and my belief in the living God.  I thank you in reaction to the statement of the honourable lady, it did say that there are groupings to whom politics are of great importance.  Nobody will deny that it is a killing game politically, which took place for 600 years in England.
	I am referring to the Irish who are Catholics and the crown.  To a certain extent the Boers also see themselves as old testament people.  I know you may find it strange but I would like to say to you in honesty that religion, the Boers' religion, naturally and its politics are very closely related and that is why the Boer in his constitution wrote that he is dependent and that he subject to God the Trinity who is determining peoples' lives.  We believe that God determines the fate of each nation and people and in this case God was asked to determine the fate of the Boer people who were only 440 in an onslaught.  The Lord was asked not only to become involved in politics but also the war politically also, but there were negotiations between the trekkers and the Zulus but that move towards war and in that war God was asked to become part of politics and the war and he bound himself by saying that we should tell our children in years to come that God at the Blood River won this war, which was the cruellest form of political strife.
	If I was not in politics, Honourable Chairperson, and if there was not an AWB, Van Jaarsveld would not have been tarred and feathered because then there would not have been a political standpoint by a body who carried this out and did not enable us to resist.  Somebody who was further from politics and somebody who would have seen the elements of politics because he involved himself in the bible in the same way that Mr van Jaarsveld said here, Mr van Jaarsveld involved himself in the history of politics.  The history is the placing on record the situation of what happened, conventions that were entered into, land being claimed and land being lost that is exactly what history is all about.  It is the placing on the record and the archiving of the political history and past with regard to the political past of the Boer people at Blood River, the historian said to the opponents of the Boer people not to trust God because he was present at Blood River.
	In other words the argument of the AWB and the Trinity, that argument was taken away from the AWB if Van Jaarsveld's paper was accepted.  With the information at my disposal, I would like to say that it was the strongest political onslaught ever on the foundations of which the Boer peoples' total struggle was to be justified to the world.  If the Lord gave the victory which was asked for and whether it was the competency of the Boers there, the fact nevertheless remains that the Boers asked that God should save them and the Generals who were also the political leaders then found this victory.  Who then am I or Van Jaarsveld or those coming after him to say that it was not God who heard their, listened to their prayers.
	If God is being asked to hear your prayers and he listens to them, who are you or anybody else to say "No, God, I have asked you but I was the good and competent General" or "God I have asked you but Pretorius put up a lager in a very special way.  It is not about which religion, to which religion people belong, but the principle of religious freedom and the right that for one to exercise one's religion and that the Lord has heard your prayers.  That should be protected and if it is being protected, it is politics, then it is a political act being made by Parliament saying to people you have religious freedom and if then you question another person's right and that person stands up and he commits a crime, a political crime, then it brings me here before you today.  I believe more essentially this case than the other two cases in which I would like to stand up for my God, my people and my fatherland by means of the tarring and feathering of Professor van Jaarsveld.  I thank you for your patience.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Mr Rudolph, there is no reason for you to reply because Ms Patel did not make any submissions in relation to the Ventersdorp incident which is the only one but if you wish to say something further you may.

MR RUDOLPH: I notice that in the Honourable Lady's submission.  I just did not understand the last part of what she said regarding the magistrate's remark about the firearm, but it is not necessary to take it any further.  The magistrate weighed the two things and said what he agreed with and what he did not.  I just want to say, because this might possibly be the only opportunity that we have to say this to one another, when you speak about people who could not vote and people who had to undergo forced removals, when you make that accusation you must do that against the National Party and not against us.  But what I do want to tell you is that even if we had the right to vote and not the freedom then that right to vote could be like a lollipop in the hand of a child who wants food.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	That then brings a conclusion to this hearing.  We will reserve judgment and we hope to get the decision out in the very near future.  This matter was set out for a week, we finished on Tuesday and we hope to use the rest of the week gainfully in respect of this matter and get that decision out as soon as possible.
	Mr Rudolph, it slipped my mind this morning but there was the other question of your two other applications.  Unfortunately, we can't do anything about them here. I don't know anything about why they were not set down or where they are going to be or anything like that.  We merely get a schedule and go to places that we are scheduled to go to and play an active role, but I can assure you that those matters will be set down in due course and there will be proper notification etc. I was also surprised to hear that no documentation was received by Mr Rudolph and I am sure that that shouldn't have happened and we'll see to it that it won't happen again in respect of those other matters.
	I would just like to, before we adjourn here, thank the church for making the venue available to us, a very nice venue, very convenient.  I would also like to thank the translators for the hard work that they have done.  It's an extremely difficult task to translate simultaneously and keep up and they have done well.  I would like to thank them very much indeed.  I'd like to thank the sound technicians for providing the system, the caterers for spoiling us, feeding us so well, not only at lunch time but also tea times, the security provided for us at the venue.  None of us I am sure ever felt threatened or the need for security, but I know that it is necessary to have it here and I would like to thank them.  I thank Ms Patel, the applicants for their assistance in this matter and everybody concerned in the running of these hearings which have gone very well.  They were set down for five days and we finished them in two days, which is an indication that we didn't have problems despite the fact that we started a bit late yesterday.  
	So thank you very much indeed and we will now adjourn and hopefully that decision will be out in the very near future.  Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MS PATEL: Would everyone please rise.
HEARING ADJOURNS