Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR MALENDI: As the Chairperson pleases.  Mr Du Randt I would like to read to you a statement made by Mrs Du Randt to the police on 21st April 1993 paragraph 23 thereof reading as follows:  "My husband arrived at home approximately after 21H00 and I told him that he should telephone Clive and tell him that a man had delivered his jersey.  There was a phone in the kitchen and I heard my husband talking to Clive.  I heard him say and I quote 'Clive, Baby was at home and a man arrived here who left a jersey for you' I also heard Lionel (my husband) tell him that the following morning we would be going out quite early and that he asked Clive at what time he would be collecting the package.  After that my husband said that Clive would be collecting the jersey very early."  I'm putting to you basically from this paragraph is that arrived home at 21H00 after the prayer hour and you went to your house and did not join in with the prayer hour.  Do you agree with what your wife is recorded to have said in her statement or not?

UNKNOWN: At approximately 21H00 I was in the kitchen at the kitchen table.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt are you aware that your son Andre Albert Du Randt also gave a statement to the police?

UNKNOWN: Yes, afterwards.

MR MALENDI: He gave his statement on the 22nd April 1993 are you aware of that?

UNKNOWN: I know about it but I don't know the exact date.

MR MALENDI: I would like to read to you what he said in his statement and would like to hear from you whether you ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, with respect, is this witness going to testify?  What is the significance of this statement?  Again it's not confirmed by the witness, we don't know under what circumstances he made it?

CHAIRPERSON: If the witness disagrees with what he said we'll pay no attention to that unless that evidence is confirmed by the evidence of the witness.  Yes put that to your.

MR MALENDI: As the Chairperson pleases.  Mr Du Randt, I'm reading from your son's statement which reads as follows:  "On the 24th February 1993 at approximately 18H50 I was at my mother's home" and then two paragraphs down "I opened the package and I saw the contents - there was a pistol, a 9mm Parabellum."  Your son also says in his statement he saw this weapon on the evening of the 24th February.  Are you able to dispute what your son says?

UNKNOWN: No I do agree that he did see it according to the information but I do not agree with the date - it is not correct.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, if you dispute the dates as I have read to you that this incident took place on the 24th and 25th March - 24th and 25th February, what is it that makes you so certain that you are right about your date?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, according to the election of the Mayor at the Special Council Meeting, according to the date of that meeting my information is correct regarding the date.

MR MALENDI: Finally on this issue of that date I would like to read you from EXHIBIT R4 the first part, page 66, paragraph 48. ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: I just want to get hold of R4 Mr Chairman.

MR MALENDI: Which is a statement made by Mr Derby-Lewis.

MR PRINSLOO: The page number, Mr Chairman, is it page 60?

MR MALENDI: Page 66.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR MALENDI: Paragraph 48 reads as follows:  "I subsequently contacted him"  If you look at paragraph 47 you'll see the references to Mr Faan Venter.  Paragraph 48: "I subsequently contacted him in February and asked him to come and see me at my home.  Late in the day when he came I asked him jokingly where I could obtain an unlicensed weapon and he jokingly replied asking how many I wanted."  That is Mr Derby-Lewis' statement indicating that he was in contact with Mr Venter in February 1993.  What do you say to the month of February having come from Mr Derby-Lewis in this statement?

UNKNOWN: Your honour, I don't know about these dates, I don't know what he had discussed with Mr Venter.

MR MALENDI: If Mr Derby-Lewis says in his statement it was in February you may be wrong in your evidence when you say it wasn't in February.  Do you agree?

UNKNOWN: It might be wrong that he spoke to Mr Venter, he could have spoken to Venter in February.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, I have read to you your wife's evidence and part of her statement and your son's - part of your son's statement.  Do you think they had any reason keeping this information away from you?

UNKNOWN: No, Mr Chairman.

MR MALENDI: So would you have expected them to tell you about this information especially about the gun?

UNKNOWN: Afterwards, after the weapon had been delivered on that Wednesday, Thursday, we did refer to this weapon but not beforehand.

MR MALENDI: Was it after Mr Derby-Lewis was arrested or before?

UNKNOWN: Yes, after Derby-Lewis had been arrested.
Which question do you want me to answer now Mr Chairman?

MR MALENDI: My first question was whether there was any reason for your wife and your son to keep this information away from you about the gun and then I asked you whether they made mention of this gun after Mr Derby-Lewis was arrested or before and as I understand your evidence, what is your answer actually?

UNKNOWN: Before he was arrested.

MR MALENDI: If they told you before Mr Derby-Lewis' arrest, did you make any further enquiries from Mr Derby-Lewis what this weapon which was delivered in this manner at your house was for?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I've already told you, I did not discuss anything with Mr Derby-Lewis regarding this firearm.

JUDGE WILSON: I just want to make sure I understand that you expected a jersey to be delivered at your home and somebody arrived at your home and told your wife - some unknown person arrived - and told her that he was delivering a jersey.  Is that correct so far?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  That is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: Your wife and son both looked into this box and saw that far from being a jersey it was a firearm.  Am I correct?

UNKNOWN: According to their evidence they must have had a look.  I was not there.

JUDGE WILSON: I take it that they like everybody else in this country knows that there are laws about firearms and the possession of firearms?  Is that so Mr Du Randt?

UNKNOWN: I'm not sure about that answer.

JUDGE WILSON: You say you're not sure if your wife or son knows that there are laws about the possession of firearms in South Africa?

UNKNOWN: I know that if you have a firearm it should be a licensed firearm but any law regulating firearms, I don't know.

JUDGE WILSON: But yet when you came home that evening, neither your wife nor your son said something amazing has happened - an unknown man came here saying he was leaving a jersey and he's left a firearm?

UNKNOWN: Yes, she told me it was a jersey and she had put that in the laundry.

JUDGE WILSON: Your wife lied to you knowing it was a firearm which had been...[intervention]

UNKNOWN: She did not tell me it was a firearm, she told me it was a jersey.

JUDGE WILSON: So she lied to you?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: And your son told you nothing?

UNKNOWN: My son didn't tell me anything either.

JUDGE WILSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: I want some clarification, Mr Du Randt, I thought in your evidence in chief you had stated that your wife explained to you what the contents of the packet was only after delivery of the packet had been affected on to Mr Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: Yes it was in the driveway, while we were in the driveway she told me she had peeped.

UNKNOWN: And in explanation what did she say to you, what was the content?

UNKNOWN: We did not talk about that a lot we were on our way to Pretoria and my wife just had one idea in her head - to go and visit the children - she wanted to go straight to the children.