Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-11

WITNESS:   What's really sad is that I don't know what to say.  I thank the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  Other people they may not know how difficult it is to have problems and not having someone to tell your problems.  Now I have a chance to come before the Commission to tell my story.  I am saying this because I am a woman who tells the truth.  If Rita Radebe says she is still receiving remarks at streets I am the one who is usually passing the remarks, because when her son died my house was burnt down as well.  I am the one who usually passes remarks to Rita, because they were also saying I should go back to Xhosa land because that was not a place for Xhosas.  Because I am a woman of her words, when we talk about reconciliation I want to come here and speak the truth.  As she is saying that she gets remarks, I am the one who is always remarking because I still have anger within me, because this happened after her son died.  Because I started from scratch.  I am working from hand to mouth.  I had three machines when I was still working, and I would go out and sell whatever I was making.  Now I am destitute.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mrs Mntambo.  I am going to give my colleagues a chance ... (inaudible) ... questions they might like to ask.

COMMISSIONER: I wanted to ask you, you said the Mbatha family came to testify.  Is the Mbatha family the same family as Nkabinde?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

COMMISSIONER: You are neighbours?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

COMMISSIONER: I know that I am opening up a wound, but I believe that it cannot continue forever.  Maybe you can come together as a family and talk this over so that you can share your pain, and see whether you cannot reach a resolution that this all belongs to the past, and you should continue with your lives.  The pain that you went through is basically the same because both of the families lost.  Some lost their sons, some lost their possessions.  Maybe you would like to come together and talk this over.

WITNESS:   Yes, I would love to come together with this family so that we could talk this over.

COMMISSIONER: With permission from the Chairperson I want to point it out that if people who had been involved in human rights violations in the past, and who have appeared as witnesses could be brought together so that they could resolve their problems amicably.  I do not know how we can do that, but we would have failed this Commission if we wouldn't do that.

WITNESS:   We shall try to do that.

COMMISSIONER: I won't add much to what Mr Dlamini has  said.  Thank you very, very much for coming and telling us your story today.  We do extend our deep sympathy to you, and, as I have said, although you think of yourself as having no resources and no power, we see somebody in front of us who has managed to pick herself up from those bad days in 1993 and to go forward.  And you are working and you are still managing to look after your children, and we hope that things get easier for you.
You are a victim of apartheid.  There's no doubt about that.  That's what I said to a witness yesterday.  If people go around saying to you that you must leave the area because you are a Xhosa it is because apartheid emphasised and emphasised and emphasised the differences between people, Zulus and Sothos and Xhosas and Tswanas, and whites and blacks and Indians and coloureds.  And apartheid was a policy which, as I have said, emphasised those differences, and people were then taken in by that and were able to go around saying that, "This is a place for Zulus and not a place for Xhosas."  That's not what democracy is.  Democracy is where you are able to be whatever you are, whatever you want to be, and, more importantly, to feel safe and secure in being that person, speaking that language, exercising that culture.  That's what democracy is, and we hope that we are moving towards a situation where we can one day say that we are truly democratic.
We will try and follow this case up.  You have given us the names of some of the people who were involved.  You have even given us the name of the person who actually shot your son, and that person has not been prosecuted, and we will investigate that.  We will also be making  recommendations to the Government as to how you might be
assisted, because you have suffered and you have lost a lot.  So thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today, and we hope that you feel empowered by telling your story here today.  Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... because you were injured in the bomb blast which took place at the Newcastle Magistrate's Court, and the policeman who was injured with you, Mr Nene, was here yesterday, but we understand that you weren't able to be with us, so we welcome you here today.  And you will be telling us about that bomb blast as well.  Before you give the evidence can you stand and take the oath.

JOHANNES SIMELANE: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Mr Lax will assist you.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Good afternoon, Mr Simelane.  Thank you for coming.  We're sorry you couldn't be here yesterday when your colleague, Mr Nene, gave his evidence, and we also had, ironically, one of the mothers of one of the people who planted bombs in Newcastle at that time who was present, and who gave her evidence after Mr Nene.  Now, before we move on to the actual story can you tell us a little bit about yourself.  Are you still working with the police at the moment?

WITNESS:  Yes, I am working in the police force.  I am at Newcastle charge office.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... Zulu so that the people can hear.  Those of us who don't understand Zulu so well can listen on the earphones.  (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   No, I am not married.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... children or dependants.

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have children.

MR LAX: How many please?

WITNESS:   I have two children.  One is five years old, the other one is three years old. Thank you.  Sorry, can you please raise your voice a little bit so that people can hear, because everything is coming through this microphone in front of you, and if you don't speak up they can't hear you.  Now, the events that you have come to tell us about happened on the 11th of November 1986, is that correct?   ---   That is correct.

MR LAX: We have in quite detail heard a lot about that story already from Mr Nene, and I am going to ask you in the interests of time not to tell us the story again so much, as to tell us how you saw it and how it affected your life, if you understand me.