Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And this Sipiwe Mbuyane became a very close friend of yours and who convinced you, at a later stage of your life, to also become a member of the IFP hit squad?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes, he's the one.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: After you joined the IFP hit squad with Mbuyane Sipiwe as one of your best friends, did he introduce you to any other members of the IFP?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct, he introduced me to some members of IFP, especially the leaders of IFP.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you give a few names of the members that you were introduced to?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: The first one was Mr Sabele, even though I knew Mr Sabele, because I used to go to his house, and he also introduced me to Mr Shauze from Z Section in Umlazi, Mr Talent Gxoxo, the owner of Executive Hotel in Umlazi and Mrs Mbuyazi in Skaweni, and she is a member of Central Committee in Sekoweni Township.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: This Mrs Mbuyazi, except for the fact that she was a member of the Central Committee, did she play any other prominent role as a political figure?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: She was also a leader of a Women's Brigade of IFP.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: At what stage, if you can remember, of the year were you introduced to Mrs Mbuyazi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: If I'm not mistaken, I think it was the beginning of 1992.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Okay.   More or less 1993, Sipiwe Mbuyane informed you about the intended killing of a certain Mr Thalede, is that right?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: From there on, can you please tell the committee exactly what happened and, in a nutshell... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Oosthuizen, did you say at the end of 1992, or '93?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Chair, it was 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you, Mr Ngxongo, please tell the committee about the instructions or the information that you had in connection with the killing of Mr Thalede?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: May I ask, do you want to know why he was going to be killed, or do you want to know something else?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Okay, let's first start, the information that you got from anyone in connection with Mr Thalede, can you tell us about anything that you knew about him?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Sipiwe told me about Mr Thalede, and he said he was supposed to come to the Eastern Transvaal and eliminate Mr Thalede, because he was harassing IFP.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Were you told in what way he was harassing IFP members?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Mr Thalede was smuggling ammunitions from Mozambique, and these arms were used to kill IFP members, especially in Ermelo.   He was staying here in Nelspruit, but he was working for the IFP in Ermelo.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Were you informed about the type of weapons that was smuggled from Mozambique to the Republic?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell the committee please?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: AK47, limpet mines, hand grenades, ammunitions.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you further tell the committee, who was the co-ordinator of IFP in the Eastern Transvaal?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: It was Mr Makwena from Bushbuck Ridge, he was the one who was the co-ordinator between the Ermelo branch and Eastern Transvaal.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Is his name familiar to you?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Willie Makwena.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Have you ever met Mr Willie Makwena before the killing of Mr Thalede, have you ever met him in person?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I've never met him at that time, but we used to talk over the telephone.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: At what stage did Mr Sipiwe Mbuyane died?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Sipiwe Mbuyane died in May 1993, on the 1st of May.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And can you, in a nutshell, just inform the committee how he died and the circumstances surrounding his death, being your best friend?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: On that night, I didn't have a car, I was accompanied with a friend of mine, we went to Durban Westville University's festival, there was a festival there.  I telephoned a friend of mine, I telephoned Sipiwe Mbuyane to come and pick me up.   When he arrived there at the festival, there were too many people, it was at night, it was dark, so I couldn't see him.   I thought he was going to look for me, look around for me.   From what I heard is that he went outside, looked for me and he couldn't see me, and he left because where he had parked his car, it was an unlawful parking area, so he went back to try and look for another parking.   That's when he was shot.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Do you know if his death was also associated with a political objective?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: This is what I believe, because ANC members used to attack us, and during those days there were too many attacks coming from ANC to us, and he died those days.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Being your best friend, are you aware exactly how he was killed, was it a shot from a distance or was it a close shot?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: When he was shot, he wasn't alone, he was with two other guys who were sitting in a blue Caravelle VW, and a girl who was sitting at the passenger's seat, and the person who told me that after he looked for me, when he came back, he left the keys with one guy who was sitting inside the kombi and then he took the key from this guy and got inside the car.   As he was about to start the car, when he was busy putting the key in the ignition, and then the guy who actually shot him came closer and shot him next to the ear.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Oosthuizen... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Oosthuizen, the circumstances surrounding Mr Mbuyane's death are not within his personal knowledge... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: As the committee pleases, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...but even so, I think these are matters which are not really relevant... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: I will proceed.

CHAIRPERSON: ...for the matter at hand.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: My intention, Madam Chair, was just to sketch a brief background, but I will proceed.   After the death of your friend, Sipiwe Mbuyane, you received another phone call from Willie Makwena, is that correct?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: What was the phone call about?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: He called, he wanted to know as to what was going on, because Sipiwe was supposed to go and complete his mission for killing - to and kill Mr Thalede, because even the people from Ermelo were complaining that Mr Thalede was supposed to have been eliminated, but now he is still around, people can still see him in Ermelo and Bushbuck Ridge, therefore he wanted to know what was going on.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And after the phone call, what did you do?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I didn't know the person who gave Sipiwe instruction.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that properly translated, you didn't know the person who had given Sipiwe instructions, is that what you said?    I think there was a mistake by the translator?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes, there was a mistake, I did know the person who gave Sipiwe the instruction to kill Mr Thalede.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was he or she?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: And after the phone call, did you spoke to... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Oosthuizen, I just asked Mr Ngxongo to tell us who that person was who had Mbuyane instructions to kill... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Sorry, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: He hasn't responded to that question.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Not yet.

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Mrs Mbuyazi from Skwaweni, the one whom I've already mentioned that she was a leader of IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for interposing.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.   After the phone call from Mr Willie Makwena, did you at any stage contact Mr Romeo Mbambo?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I received this phone call on Thursday after work.   I decided to go personally to see Mrs Mbuyazi, I just had to go there because it was important.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And after that?