Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome all of you this morning, especially those who have come to listen to what will be said.  We do trust and hope that amongst them there are families who are coming to present their stories in front of the Commission, and we do welcome each and every one of you, and we do appreciate the effort that you are giving to the witnesses in terms of support.
It's our wish and desire that everybody in this hall should listen to what we will say, and we have the headphones.  This is what I am lifting up to you now.  For things to be conducted orderly we would request the ones who have the headphones to listen properly to the instructions.  There are channels, and there is channel two for English, there is channel three for Zulu.  As you may realise for Zulu you won't be using channel three, it will come to the floor.  For Sotho, for those who are Sotho-speaking, we have four for them, channel four.  Channel four is for Sotho.  Those are the only languages we have for you today.
One other thing about these headphones, for those who are already having some, please do not take these earphones with.  They should remain in the hall.  They are useless outside this hall.  Now, we do request the audience to leave these behind.
Without much waste of time and without much ado - we are expecting quite a number of witnesses today - we will get started.  Some haven't arrived, but we will however get started.  We have briefers amongst us.  We have Mums, Thandwa and Nomusa.  They are standing right now, so please do contact them for any other thing.
Before we get started I would like to introduce the members of the panel with me up front.  On my right-hand side we have Mr Ilan Lax.  Mr Ilan Lax is the committee member of the Human Rights Violation Committee.  He is a lawyer or an attorney by profession.   This is Ilan Lax.  On my left-hand side I do have Mr Mdu Dlamini, who is a member of this committee by the name of Human Rights Violation.  He resides in Durban.  He is fairly known in Durban, and also in the Church of John Wesley.  The one who is currently talking to you is Mrs Gcabashe, and also from this Human Rights Violation Committee.  I am a member of that committee, and I do trust and hope that now we may get started, and first call upon the witness stand Mr - no, it's not Mr, it's Ms Bettina Mdlalose.  They will escort you up to the witness stand.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: It looks to me as though you are two there.  Who is Bettina Mdlalose?

BETTINA MDLALOSE AND THANDI MDLALOSE: I am.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is with you?

BETTINA MDLALOSE AND THANDI MDLALOSE: That's my youngest daughter.

CHAIRPERSON: Is the daughter going to say anything today, or what?

BETTINA MDLALOSE AND THANDI MDLALOSE: No, we will assist each other.

CHAIRPERSON: Now that you are going to be assisting each other I would kindly request - well, first of all I shall thank you for the audacity of coming in front here in spite of what you have gone through, the atrocities, and today you are coming to disclose and ventilate in front of this Commission, and that will enlighten us as a Commission to know as to what transpired and happened.  I will now ask Ms Bettina to kindly stand up so she may be sworn in.

BETTINA MDLALOSE AND THANDI MDLALOSE: (Sworn, State)

CHAIRPERSON: Amongst us here the one who will be leading your evidence will be Mr Dlamini.  Now I hand over to Mr Dlamini.  Mr Dlamini, over to you.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Chairlady.  Good morning, Mrs Mdlalose and Miss Mdlalose.

WITNESS:   Yes, how are you?

MR DLAMINI: As the Chairlady has already welcome you I do wish to welcome you as well.  I do know that you come to this Commission with such a sad story, but the Commission would like to know.  Please lay your story on the table now.  We will assist you by way of asking questions as to remind you what you have written in your statement, and also try to clarify things that are not clear.  Now, please be free.  This is not a court of law, it's just a place where you want to come and ventilate your truth.  Maybe I should ask first how is the situation at home, or perhaps your family structure?  Do you still have your husband?

WITNESS:  No, he is since deceased.

MR DLAMINI: Amongst your children, not Simon's children but your children, how many are still alive?

WITNESS:   I have three girls who are still alive.

MR DLAMINI: What are they doing?

WITNESS:   One girl is working.

MR DLAMINI: And the others?

WITNESS:   The one right next to me is the last one and is not working.  One other is married, the eldest one.  One other died on the Sunday of this new year, of the New Year's Day.  He was sick.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you for giving us your family structure.  Please lay to the Commission now Simon's family structure, your son that was killed.  Was Simon married at the time of his untimely death?

WITNESS:   No, he had children - or he had a child, but he wasn't married.

MR DLAMINI: How old is the child?

WITNESS:   You mean the one who died?

MR DLAMINI: I mean Simon's child.  How old is Simon's child?

WITNESS:   He or she is seven years old.

MR DLAMINI: Where is the mother of this child you are talking about?

WITNESS:   There she is.  I think my Mum is confused here.  He had three children.  I mean Simon's children were three.  The first-born is with us here, is amongst the audience.  He is 17 years old, or he will turn 17 this year, and the second one is a girl, and was born in 1981, and the third one I assume is four years old.

MR DLAMINI: Did the child die at four years?

WITNESS:   No, all the children are still alive. You mean the last one is the four-year-old?   ---   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: About the boy, what is the 17-year-old doing?

WITNESS:  He is at school.

MR DLAMINI: On what standard is he?

WITNESS:   He is in standard five.

MR DLAMINI: About the girl who was born in 1991.

WITNESS:   The girl is in standard four, and the last one is at the nursery or the creche.

MR DLAMINI: Were these children born of one woman, or perhaps different mothers?

WITNESS:   They have different mothers.

MR DLAMINI: Are they with their respective mothers?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: Are the mothers working?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are, but the last one is not working.  The others, the two other ones, are teachers.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you for enlisting help to the old lady.  Please do that quite often.  At the time when Simon died according to the records, our records, he was 29 years old.  According to our records he was born in 1961.  Do you agree with that?

WITNESS:   Yes, we do.

MR DLAMINI: That means in 1990 he was 29 years old.  Does this correspond with what you have there?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: The old lady, according to our records, she is in 1930.

WITNESS:   No, she is 1934.  Something was wrong with her ID, however she is a 1934, not a 1930, but according to the ID it's 1930.

MR DLAMINI: Now, something was written wrong then.  Let's go according to the Home Affairs records.  Now, we will go according to what the ID tells us.  Do you earn pension fund?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: Besides that pension fund who supports you?

WITNESS:   No one does.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you very much for enlightening to the Commission as for the family structure.  I will now request let's get to the issue on the 19th April 1990 when the police came to your home.  Tell the Commission exactly as to what happened on that day.