Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-05

UNKNOWN: You went on to say you think that he probably skipped the country.  Did you ever go to the SACP people or the ANC people to try and find out as to whether he really did skip the country or he just ended up in South Africa?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I went to all the places, those organisations but I couldn't get a relevant person who could explain to me as to what had exactly happened after he had been shot and how he skipped the country.  It was just rumour.  But there was no substantiation of the fact that he
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had actually skipped the country after being shot.  All I know is that he was shot at the back and he was under heavy police guard.  As to how and when he skipped the country was quite puzzling and I realised that I had to take further steps.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.

DR RANDERA: Mr Mofokeng, I also just want to clarify again please.  Can you tell us, I know you say you weren't quite sure whether it was in 1976 or 1977 that Mandla had been shot.  When was the last time you saw him?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I last saw my son during those times I was already out in exile but I received the information when I was still outside.  Then I came here to try and find out as to what had exactly happened and what had happened to my children whom I left at that time.  That is when I started knowing as to what life or sort of life that he lived.  When I came back.  I only knew then that when I went away he also followed me and that was all that I was told about his skipping the country.  That is quite a number of years since I had seen him.

DR RANDERA: You were in exile yourself and when did you come back?  When did you come back?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I believe I came back in 1988.

DR RANDERA: Can I then just ask in terms of your wife and I think you mentioned your daughter, did they go and visit him either at Baragwanath Hospital or at the General Hospital as you mentioned?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: They tried several times and they were being chased so rudely.

DR RANDERA: So none of the family members saw him after he was shot?
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MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: There is absolutely no one who saw him except that as my daughter was known there they got information thereafter.  They were told by the nurses at the hospital as to how his condition was but they could not see him because they kept on being chased away.  Even when they were at the hospital they were always told they could not see him.  They were chased from inside.  Even the police chased them.

DR RANDERA: You say that some friends saw him and that his face was very swollen after he was shot because he had been kicked and hit.  Can you give us the names of those friends?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: Yes I do know those friends.  I think the two of them have come back.  We traced and got them.  We couldn't get his friends anywhere, we couldn't trace them.  The two have come back but we never actually got hold of them.  At the time when he was shot they were together with his friends.

DR RANDERA: Is it possible then because you say that it is a rumour that Mandla left and the police told somebody that Mandla had escaped, is it possible then that he could have passed away in hospital and not left the country at all?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: That is quite possible because there could be two sides to this coin.  It is either he skipped the country or he died at the hospital under police guard.  These are the two coins, whichever one can be possible.

DR RANDERA: My last question is you say you were in exile.  Which political movement were you with when you were in exile?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I was a member of the ANC.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.
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PROF MEIRING: Father, I would like to ask one question.  You are not the only person testifying about the sadness of the loss of a child who disappeared in exile without coming back.  What advice could you give to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, what can we do to you and to other people in the same boat as you are in?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I believe that this is very important because whatever the Commission can do for us, especially that we have lost our loved ones.  According to my own feelings I don't believe that I will ever see him again. I don't believe that he is still alive.  According to the statements that we got from people I don't believe that it is easy for me to be able to see him again.  I wanted this Commission to help me, if it is possible, for us to know whether he is still alive or what is happening but he has left an orphan.  He had a child with a certain lady who has since been deceased.  He was supposed to have married this woman.  Now the woman has died and there is a child who is now an orphan left behind.  I would like the Commission to help in any way that it can with regard to this child.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

MS JOY SEROKE: Mr Mofokeng, you say you suspect that your son did not leave the country, he died in hospital.  And in your statement you said some people said they saw him on the television.  What was he doing when they saw him?  Was it just the name that appeared or his photo?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: It is possible that whoever saw him thought he was seeing him and he was probably not seeing him.  Maybe it was somebody who looked like him.  Because when they came they were a group and two people came and told me that they had seen him, he was in a group of
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people arriving from exile but he never actually appeared.  He never came home.

MS JOY SEROKE: You even said, Mr Mofokeng, when he was shot his friend was also shot but he managed to run.  Where is the other one with whom he was when he got shot?

MR LEFOKA LAWRENCE MOFOKENG: I think there is a mistake.  Either I made the mistake.   When he was shot the one he was with was not shot.  He is the one who got shot.  The other one managed to run away.  They were the ones who explained to me as to what had actually happened.  They came to my place.

MS JOY SEROKE: Thank you very much, Mr Mofokeng.

COMMISSIONER: We thank you very much. Many times we feel weak.  We run short of words that we can use to try and pass condolences because you have lost your loved one and the most unsettling thing about this is that you were told lies continually because you kept on harbouring the hope that he could possibly be alive.  But as many things have happened as well as the rumours it is possible that he died in hospital.  But the police never informed you or never told you the truth.  Just to add on to the pain, you were put in a state of uncertainty.  We do not know what we can do but we shall try to help you and your family to try and see as to how we can solve this problem, break this secrecy.  We do hear that you wish that the Commission could help you with regard to your grandchild.  We thank you very much.