Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-01

MR CLAASSEN: As the Chair pleases.  Mr Ndlangamandla, could you just clarify your position within the Inkatha Freedom Party when and for the duration of what time were you a member of the party?

CHAIRPERSON: Not a member, when he was the Chairperson of the Youth Brigade.

MR CLAASSEN: As the Chair pleases.  The chairperson of the Youth Brigade?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: From 1990 until 1994 when I was sentenced.

CHAIRPERSON: And when was the meeting convened to which he has just alluded?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: The caucus meeting took place after the funeral of my grandfather.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you happy Mr Ndlangamandla to speak in English?  Do you feel more comfortable in speaking in English than in Zulu?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I will mix.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe if you can just stick in one language because if you talk too long it creates a problem for interpreters.  When was the grandfather buried?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: During the day.

CHAIRPERSON: When exactly, if you can just give us a day and a month?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: 30th November 1993.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla so it follows that during this incident you were the chairperson of the Youth Brigade?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I was.

MR CLAASSEN: Was the caucus held on the day of the funeral, on the 30th November.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you know when that caucus meeting was held, at whose house or where?  At which place?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: At my place.

CHAIRPERSON: Who convened that meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: My father called that meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: And who attended the meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Elias Mdunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he something or did he have a position in the IFP?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes, he was a member of the IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: You're talking about Elias Mdunga?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes he was my father as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Elias Mdunga is your father?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Who else was there in that meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Alfred Ndlangamandla.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Alfred a member of an organisation?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes he's a member.

CHAIRPERSON: You can continue as to naming the people who were there.

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Noshaisa Ndlangamandla.

CHAIRPERSON: What was his position?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He was a member.

CHAIRPERSON: You can continue.

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I think those were the only people present.

CHAIRPERSON: The people you have mentioned are three.  It's Mdunga, your father, your own father and Alfred Ndlangamandla who is a member of IFP as is Ndlangamandla who is also a member of IFP, therefore there were only four people in this caucus meeting.

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I can't remember the others, there were other people as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you estimate to us as to how many people were present in that meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I think seven, I'm not quite sure.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Claassen, you may proceed.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madame Chair.
	Mr Ndlangamandla, was this meeting held in party context?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: We were planning as to how to revenge Mr Ben Nkosi.

MR CLAASSEN: Was that the object of this particular meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes it was.

MR CLAASSEN: And you volunteered to perpetrate this act of revenge?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I volunteered because no one else wanted to and I volunteered and I told them that I was going to be the one who was going to kill Mr Ben Nkosi.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, did you act on the instruction of any one in this matter?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No there was no instruction, like I said I just volunteered.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, you indicated that Mr Ben Nkosi, was he known to you?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes because we are relatives somehow.

MR CLAASSEN: Did you know if Mr Nkosi had any involvement in any political party?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes.

MR CLAASSEN: Won't you assist us Mr Claassen by just establishing, if he says that he was his relative what was the nature of that relationship before we lose that point?

MR CLAASSEN: As the Chair wishes.  Mr Ndlangamandla, could you just indicate the exact nature of the relationship between yourself, whether - how you were related to Mr Ben Nkosi?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I can tell you that.

MR CLAASSEN: Please do?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He was my grandfather from my maternal side.

CHAIRPERSON: He was his maternal grandfather, was that not so?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No, he's not my mother's father but considering the surnames he was my grandfather because my mother is Dlamini, so Dlamini and Nkosi is one thing.

CHAIRPERSON: How related were you, we need an explanation, were the surnames similar or you were blood relatives?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No we were sharing surnames, not blood relatives.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say he was your relative what do you mean?  When you said before, you said Ben Nkosi was your relative what exactly did you mean?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I meant that he's my grandfather because he's surname is similar to my mothers.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, other than the fact that the surname of the deceased were the same as your mother, did you have any contact within the family context?  Were you friends, did you visit him?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No, I had no problem with that.

MR CLAASSEN: Sorry Mr Ndlangamandla, the question wasn't whether you had a problem with him, the question was whether you had any relationship with him?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No there wasn't.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, just to return to a previous question, did you know at that stage if Mr Nkosi had any political involvement of any nature?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes.

MR CLAASSEN: And what was that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He was a chairman of the ANC.

MR CLAASSEN: How do you know this?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I used to talk with him.

MR CLAASSEN: Could you just repeat that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I used to talk with him a lot.

MR CLAASSEN: If you say talk, did you have political discussions?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: We used to talk about so many things and including politics as well.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla at the time of this incident was there an established branch of Lashompondo of the ANC?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes there was even they were not so prominent because IFP were the ones who were prominent in the area.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, when you decided that this caucus meeting that you will be the one to kill Ben Nkosi, was there to be any gain for your personally?  What motivated you to perpetrate this act?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I wanted to revenge and my grandfather meant a lot to me.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, getting back to your grandfather, your statement states that he was killed and attacked by members of the ANC.  Was this then specifically Ben Nkosi?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes Ben Nkosi was with others, I don't know the other's names.

MR CLAASSEN: How do you know that Ben Nkosi killed your grandfather?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I was present.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, what were, if any, political gain to be had from perpetrating this murder?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Politically I was going to gain supporters.

MR CLAASSEN: Can you just explain that a bit further please?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: They became scared after they heard that their leader was killed and then after the revenge we gained them back.

MR CLAASSEN: This was the time before the 1994 General Election?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes.