Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-05-06

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just ask you to turn volume down on those boxes, I think there's a lot of -   Mrs Sefularo, good morning.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Good morning, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Russel Ally is going to be assisting you as you tell your story, but before I hand you over to him, can I ask Professor Meiring  to help you take the oath.  If you can just stand please.
PROF. MEIRING: Sorry, maybe you should just stand again.  Will you please say, declare that everything you will say, you will be saying will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: (sworn states)
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you very much.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mrs Sefularo, good morning.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Good morning, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: You're coming to speak to us about a very painful experience.  An incident which took place in January, 1991 that affected you and your entire family and also led to the death of one of your children, Surprise Sefularo.  I'm going to ask you now, in your own words, if you will just go through what happened on that day of the 5th of January 1991.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: (in Xhosa)

CHAIRPERSON: Ma'am, can I just stop you for one minute, we don't seem to be getting the translations.  It's now okay.  It's now clear ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: On the 5th of January 1991, we were asleep at that time.  I was woken up by a noise of people.  Thereafter, I heard my window panes breaking.  Immediately people were gathered inside the house, then I could see that these people were fighting.  They came to me  and stuck me with a knife.  After that, I tried to hide myself.  I  couldn't help it because I had five children in the house at that time.  Immediately thereafter I went outside to look for my children.  I found three children, the fourth one is Surprise whom I didn't find at that time.  I was helpless at that time, I was having one child with my right hand and the other one on my left hand.
 Then we went to Mr Tiro's house.  Mr Tiro took me to the hospital.  Whilst I was on the way, the ambulance took me to the hospital, I was made an operation to remove the blade from my left hand.  Two children slept in the hospital for two days.  The other one slept for three days in the hospital.  That's how far I go.

RUSSELL ALLY: I just want to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind, mainly based on

RUSSELL ALLY: I just want to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind, mainly based on your statement.  You say that more than thirty people entered your house that evening, is
that correct?  Is that what you remember ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: That's true Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say that you later learnt that these were ANC people.  How did you find out that information ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I learnt that during the struggle, they denied that our children should go to school and those who were working at the government at that time, in Boputhatswana, could easily be killed.  One of them was at school and the other one was a policeman in the Bop police.

RUSSELL ALLY: No, Ma'am, maybe you didn't understand me correctly.  You say in your statement that these people who came to your house, who attacked you and your family, who set fire to your house, who stabbed you, who you believe are responsible for the death of your daughter, you say that you learnt that they were ANC members.  Now, did somebody tell you that or did you identify any of the people ?  How did you find out or learn that these were ANC people ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I just learnt from my own observation that they were, that they were ANC members.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you explain a little bit to us?  How do you mean, your own observations?  Did they, did they have ANC T-shirts on or what was it that convinced you that they were actually members of the ANC,  or ANC supporters?

RUSSELL ALLY: My  observation  was  based  on  the  following :    that  when  there  were
gatherings, there would, the ANC people would go to, house to house but they could not come to my house all the time.

RUSSELL ALLY: Ma'am these, of these thirty  people, did you recognise anybody.  Do you
know anyone of that group that came to your house ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I was not able to identify anyone of them because they just broke windows, came inside and assaulted me and my family.

RUSSELL ALLY: So you wouldn't know if they were from your area or another area or anything like that ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I was not able to see as whether they come from our village or the surrounding areas.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say that you were, you were stabbed by one  of these people who came into your house stabbed you?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, on the shoulder, I was stabbed on the shoulder and the blade left inside the flesh.

RUSSELL ALLY: You say that you believe that one of the reasons why these people came to your house, one of the possible reasons was because you had a son who was in the police, who was part of the Boputhatswana police.  Where was that son at, at ... (interrupted)

NTEBANG SEFULARO: The other one was attending school whilst the schools were closed in our area.

RUSSELL ALLY: But one of your sons were still attending school, even though there was a boycott ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: He was attending school at Tsongotwane village.

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay.  Now your who, who is the policeman, where was he at the time of this incident ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: He was Hammaskraal training college at that time.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now, before this incident, before this night of January, did you ever have
any other conflicts or confrontations with  people in your village ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: People  were leaving the area to Zeerust and other areas and then we were left, we were the only ones who were left in that area at that time.

RUSSELL ALLY: I don't, you say people had fled from the area, is that what you're saying ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, they fled to Zeerust.  Only us who, who lost their children left in our area.

RUSSELL ALLY: Why did these people leave, go to Zeerust?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I don't know the reasons behind their fleeing, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now, I ask whether, before this incident your family had been targeted in any way.  Was there any, did any people say that, that your family was in danger because of your son being in the police and your other son going to school?  Were there any threats made against your family, or anything like that ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, we had threats because my child was attending school whilst the children in the village were boycotting school.

RUSSELL ALLY: And do you know any of the people who made these threats ?  Are you able to identify any of these people ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: My child was telling me all those threats but I told her that she should go to school.  I  would take  him  very  early  in  the morning to go to school every
day.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now your son, this son who told you about these threats, would he be able to give names do you think,  would he be able  to identify the people ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: No, he didn't tell me names.  He was just telling me that people in the village were making threats.  He was not telling me names.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now this Mr Tiro, your neighbour who took you to the hospital, what did he do?  Was he, is he a family member?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: He's staying at a distance from my house because I knew that he has a car that he can help me to take me to the hospital.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now can you tell us about your daughter who was, who was killed, about the circumstances of her death ?  How was she killed and where was she found ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I didn't see the death of my, I didn't experience the death of my child.  After I left the hospital he was stabbed and thrown just next to the toilet.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now did the police ever, ever investigate this incident ?  Did they come and take statements from you ?