Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

VELILE MXHOSANA: As I was the person who received the instructions directly from the high command we met on the 14th of December, we met at Vulture's place, we were six in number.  It was myself, it was Lefu, it was Ri, it was Voyo and Derek and Vulture is the owner of the house.  Themba was in the house but didn't take part in the meeting.  When we were discussing we came to the decision that this attack should not be directed to only one police station, we should go to various police stations, because if we attack one otherwise we would give them a chance to come and respond to the attack, so that the police would not be able to respond to the attack.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mxhosana would you please slow down because we are taking down notes and the translators must also be able to translate that which you are saying in seSotho into English.

VELILE MXHOSANA: Okay.  I want to find out as to how far you were in my testimony.

SISI KHAMPEPE: For my sake I think you can start by, start afresh from what the discussion was all about, that not one police station should be attacked, that's where my notes end.

VELILE MXHOSANA: Okay.  What I tried to explain is that we sat down, then we agreed amongst ourselves that it would be stupid to attack only one police station and leave other police stations which were near the targeted police station.  In agreement we decided that we should divide ourselves.  Others would attack a certain police station A, others police station B, it will depend on the number of us. We came to the decision, our agreement, that we should divide ourselves and then we started with - because we were five we had to divide ourselves into two's, and then in my unit I was a commander in the second unit.  Vuyu was the commander, the third unit the commander was Themba.  Then from there ammunitions were taken out which we needed to use.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mxhosana we still can't keep up with your speed.  If you have slowed down won't you please slow down even further.

CHAIRPERSON: You say ammunitions were taken out, taken out from where?

VELILE MXHOSANA: There were arms or ammunitions which came with Themba Ngaphayo.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes do carry on.

VELILE MXHOSANA: I would try to explain what kind of arms or ammunitions we had then.  We had two AK-47's.  We had one machine Scorpion, we had three M-26 ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: I think the translator didn't get - you mentioned one of the weapons which were about four.  You mentioned something after the two Scorpions which the translator was able to translate to us.

VELILE MXHOSANA: Four Chinistic grenades, four Chinistic grenades.  After that I talked about three M-26, then one M-75.  Then we had three petrol bombs.  Those are the arms we had. When we divided these arms to various units we divided them equally.
	The first unit of which I was in we took the M-26, three of them, together with one M-75 and two petrol bombs.  The second unit they took two Chinistic handgrenades, one AK-47 with two magazines and one petrol bomb.  The third unit they took one Scorpion with two magazines, they took one AK-47 with two magazines and two Chinistic grenades.  That's how we divided those arms.  The unit in which I was which was supposed to attack Mbatu Location took three M-26 and one M-75 and two petrol bombs.
	After that we came to discuss about time because we couldn't just do those things whilst we were many and do them at different times.  We had to agree on the time which we need to attack.  Then we agreed that it should be at 11 o'clock, that is where all these attacks would be done.  That is to say these attacks would take place at the respective places.  The first one was Municipal, the Park Road Police Station in town, those were the places which needed to be attacked.
	We did go to our own operation as planned because we agreed that I would be the commander of this unit.  On the other side Vuyu would be the commander and he would be accompanied by Ri, then the other one would be the commander of Derek.
	We went to the police station and when we arrived there we took our positions as planned as we had our explosives.  They have a certain limited distance.  Where we were standing and the distance between us and the door to the charge office and the walls of the barracks would be approximately 25 metres to 30 metres. That is where we were standing as to the police station.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that 25 metres from the door of the police station?

VELILE MXHOSANA: The distance where they should hit from that place roughly I would say it's the distance of 25 metres to 30 metres.
	The time we agreed on arrived.  At that time then as we were conducting these operations with two watches the police stations which were in the townships were using one watch, the police station which was in town they were using only one watch.  It happened that the unit which had this watch were in a certain police station and they were supposed to come and inform us about that the time has arrived, but at 11 o'clock they had to make one gunshot from the AK-47.  By hearing that signal I gave the instruction that we should attack.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You heard a shot from a gun and that was to signal to you that it's 11 o'clock?

VELILE MXHOSANA: In terms of the agreements there was one watch, then we were supposed to be signalled by a gunshot that would tell us that the time is now ripe for the attack.  So I heard that gunshot, immediately thereafter I gave an instruction that this is the time to attack.  To be a leader at times it is - I don't know how people understand that, at times you are supposed to die first then I started with what I had to hit the police station.  My co-accused took a petrol bomb then threw it.  When he threw the petrol bomb I thought he used the handgrenade for me not to hear anything happening thereafter I returned, because even if there's a defect, if that explosive doesn't hit you should examine it because it will be a danger to you and to those you are with, and for me not to hear the sound I gave an instruction that we should leave there because that place is no more safe.  Then we left the police station and then we went to the safe house.
	When we arrived at the safe house we entered the building.  We were all together, nobody was left behind and no one was injured.  We agreed that we need to disperse because there is nothing we can do so far.  We have managed to do what we intend to do.  Those who were still in that area they will be the suspects, especially for those who do not understand the language in that area because there were so many incidents that has occurred like shooting, hand explosives, during those time it was not usual.  
	So I thought the people will go in that incident are the people who do not understand the language and the way of life to those people.  We agreed that everybody must go in such a way we arranged that we must disperse and the following day we just dispersed and I remained with the first co-accuser, so everybody went away.
	On the 19th I was arrested while I was sitting doing nothing.  It was on the 19th of December 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were you arrested?

VELILE MXHOSANA: I was still at home resting in my bedroom.

CHAIRPERSON: What happened to the three M-26 and the one M-75 that you took with you?

VELILE MXHOSANA: Okay.  Concerning the M-26, if I do remember well I threw them away on my way when we retreated, and the M-75 was still in the house but I didn't manage to go back to fetch them.  But all the people who were in the house I told them that there were two M-26 and even where they have been thrown.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, anything else you want to ask? Where were you arrested, at your house?

VELILE MXHOSANA: I was at home where I stayed with my parents.

CHAIRPERSON: And your companion?