Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — UNKNOWN

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Chairperson, may I add something on the question of the code of conduct. The document that you are referring to as a code of conduct was adopted after Kabwe. But before that, we did have a set of rules, not called a code of conduct, which was later refined, and after Kabwe adopted as a code of conduct,
The second point I would like to make about the two groups, the one executed and the one group not executed. Again, it is important to realise that the problems at Pango didn't interrupt just in this mutiny. There had been earlier dissatisfaction where comrades in the camp had mutinied. In particular, there was, I think around December 1983, there was a mutiny in Pango, and the Revolutionary Council had arrived in Luanda, just about the time of the mutiny. The Angolan government were the first to alert us, our President, that such an event had taken place. President Tambo then changed the nature of the meeting of the Revolutionary Council and we met all night. We took a decision by about three o'clock in the morning, after having debated all the options and based on the reports we were receiving, including the fact that the camp - the regional commander had travelled by road over a distance of more than 450 kilometres, through hostile territory to come and give us a first-hand report. We took a decision to send three comrades from that meeting, if I remember, three comrades from that meeting, to travel overland, leaving that morning at five o'clock, with the instructions to go and resolve that mutiny without the use of force. That was the expedition that was led by Comrade Chris Hani and Comrade Mhlanthla was in it. Indeed, they went there.
The mutineers were fully armed and the delegation sent by us put the - went in unarmed and when they assembled all the comrades, asked them all to put out their arms outside the meeting place, otherwise the meeting would not start. So the matter was resolved in that way in a political way.
But the matter was not left at that point. President Tambo then insisted that the rest of us, including himself, should travel by a special plane that he arranged with the Angolan government, and all of us were required to go to the camp to address the comrades in the camp, politically. We reached the first camp by plane. Drove a certain distance. And at that meeting President Tambo asked each member of the Revolutionary Council without preparation, to address the camps. He spoke last. I see a number of my colleagues are here who were at that meeting.
This I have sketched because having thought we had begun to address the problem politically, when the second mutiny took place, and it resulted in the death of almost the command structure in the camp, that is when the first sitting - group were executed.
The second group were then intercepted, as I have explained, and said we do not think that we should just be proceeding this way, we need to re-examine the tactics being used by the enemy.

MR NHLANDLA: Maybe just to complete what my comrade Mac has said. We had gone to Angola for a very high meeting of the Revolutionary Council, and found that a mutiny had started in the east. At about three o'clock a decision was taken that Chris Hani, myself and Lambert Moloi, should proceed. We were asked if we needed any escort in terms of, I mean, of army and so forth. We said no, we are going to see our people.
We had a meeting that lasted almost the whole day, with the comrades, indicated to them that mutiny in terms of army, of military code of conduct is a very serious offence, but that we understood the problems facing all of us, and particularly in Angola, and therefore we were going to make a recommendation to the leadership in Luanda. We thought then that they were still in Luanda, they had not flown as Mac was saying. And we agreed with all those comrades that we are going to make a recommendation for the leadership not to treat the incident as a mutiny, but that there are problems, and then that the movement should set up a - I mean, some commission and so forth.
I think that was how the Stewart Commission was gone. And that was agreement at that meeting with the comrades that had mutinied. I must say that it was a - it was quite a regiment of comrades who were protecting a particular wing in the east. They were armed to the teeth because they had to protect themselves. It is the time when the Angolan struggle in the south was intensifying and more and more of the Angolan troops were going to the south and MK had to protect itself.
But what I want to emphasise is that we got to the leadership, afterwards reported at the meeting that we had and the leadership agreed that the matter will not be considered as mutiny. And that a commission was going to be set up and we thought that was the end of the matter.
So I am trying to say ANC did not arbitrarily take any disturbances as mutiny and resorted arbitrarily to, I mean, to execution. It was unfortunately after, days after - when we had even returned to Lusaka, myself and Chris, that we got a message that there has now been a flare-up and unfortunately there was now - they were marching towards Luanda, and the government of Angola of course had to say it cannot tolerate that kind of situation.
But so all that happened, leading to execution, should be understood. On the basis of the second, not the first. The first, the leadership, I mean, of the ANC, which was gathered in Angola, agreed and reported back to the leadership in Lusaka and the leadership in Lusaka agreed that this matter should not be treated as mutiny but as some dissatisfaction and so forth. A commission was to be set up, representatives coming from all over. Some of the people who participated in the commission came from London and other places, to make it as neutral as possible.

DR BORAINE: Could I just intercede at this stage and say Mr Nhlandla, thank you very much. Unfortunately I was not able to ask you to make your name known, again for the radio listeners. I would be grateful if anyone who participates, if they can start, even if they have spoken before, by giving their name, just so that everybody knows who is who. Thank you very much.

MR VALLY: One of our mandates in terms of our Act is to determine the whereabouts of people who have disappeared, and I just need clarity on the issue of whether the families....

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry. Could we just hold there. I mean, you have sort of dealt with your first section as it were, the questions on human rights violations in ANC camps. I just want to find out from my colleagues here, whether there are any who want to ask supplementary questions before you go on to the next one. Dr Mgojo?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairperson, I think the question which I was going to ask is the one which Hanif Vally was going to ask. That in terms of our Act, the families are saying that some of their children, sons and daughters, got lost somewhere in exile.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Mgojo, I wondered whether you would confine it to the whole question of human rights violations.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: In the camps and then disappearances will come as next.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You have - Dr Boraine?