Human Rights Violation Hearings — Worcester — 1996-06-24

MR NTSOMI: Okay after I was acquitted or else after I was released,  I took a decision with my lawyer - I got lawyers - it was David Daniels and Company - they were in Wynberg then.  I claimed against the State but that case couldn't go further  - I didn't succeed, which means I lost.
Then the lawyers made an appeal again.  I think they saw there were chances that as I was acquitted from the original police at Worcester and the policemen acted unlawfully and the way I was treated I just can't accept it - I couldn't -  I can't understand, I can't even figure it out how did it happen and I was asked for two - I asked for two times about my claim as I was acquitted from the High Court in Worcester.  The first claim and the appeal were dismissed -  I think that was all of it.   
And then last year what I would like to mention is I got a letter.  I would start from 1992.  Lawyers called me, they asked me to make an affidavit because that was what the State was asking for.  They wanted to be sure what am I doing at that moment - to state my state of income, how do I receive funds and I did that with the help of my lawyers.   I was still a student then and I sent the affidavit.
And then last year round about August or September, I am not sure I received a letter from the State Attorney.  The State Attorney said the affidavit I made maybe was not but - was not exactly what they wanted but they said again that I must say the same thing that  I wrote there and then I did again write down the same thing that I did.
But last year I ignored the letter.   It came again, I received it later, the second one this year.  I read through it and it was saying the same thing and the lawyers phoned seemingly there were other lawyers now in that place, and they told me to make an affidavit because the State is asking for an affidavit to state my situation and my financial situation.

WENDY ORR: [indistinct] what you were earning because they wanted you to pay for the legal costs from the case you'd made.

MR NTSOMI: Ja exactly so that was the second letter - the third letter -  I received a third letter - it was a registered letter stating that there are legal costs as my claim was dismissed in all costs so I must pay some costs to the State.
And they stated that they estimated about R45,000 out of my own pocket and they also stated that that money can be taxed and now I realised that this was going to be a serious matter.  And I tried to get private lawyers because I wanted to have someone - a legal person to help me to do the affidavit.  I tried to consult the lawyers - one of them was Ms Williams and I told them the whole situation and she said okay we will make the affidavit but we must open a file so - and I had to pay R200,00,  I've already paid R100,00 and I paid half of the amount.
I told Ms Williams that on the financial situation I am not prepared to pay anything because this is too much even if it was not that because I am the loser because I lost my leg and then the next thing now the State demands a lot of money from me.   I am not prepared to pay it and I don't have means and I can't even afford to pay that amount because it is a huge amount for me to pay.
Because I felt that my human rights were violated and then at the end of the day I must pay the State some money.  I don't think it's fair.  So that's how the situation is.

WENDY ORR: Thank you Mr Chair, I have no further questions but I'll  hand back to the Chairperson.

DR BORAINE: Thank you Dr Orr - Ms Burton.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Mr Ntsomi, we heard earlier that you had been  a witness to the death of Nkosane Bahume, is that right?

MR NTSOMI: Yes, it's like that.

MARY BURTON: You were with him when he was shot?

MR NTSOMI: I was with him.

MARY BURTON: Then a while later you were at the funeral of - is that Thomas Kholo who was buried the day that you were shot?

MR NTSOMI: I was at the funeral, I attended the funeral.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] leaders of the young people in Zwelethemba at the time?

MR NTSOMI: I would say so because - I would say I was one of the leaders, because we had the organisation, we that was [indistinct]

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] the youth.

MR NTSOMI: Zwelethemba Youth Organisation.

MARY BURTON: Yes.

MR NTSOMI: Ja.

MARY BURTON: The day that you were shot, were other people injured?

MR NTSOMI: I am trying to think deeply because I am not sure there were some who were injured but people I can remember, there were those who were arrested because I met them at the police cells and they told me that they were arrested during that period.  That weekend is the time of their arrest.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] when you were injured and they put you in the van and drove around like you told us for those two hours there was nobody else in the van with you then.

MR NTSOMI: Yes, it's like that - that's what exactly happened.

MARY BURTON: And then afterwards, once your leg was better and you were still appearing in court and in the subsequent years were you still involved - where you still an activist?

MR NTSOMI: I didn't stop after they shot me, I continued, I never gave up.  I was still involved even after that time.   Even the policemen couldn't even  end there - they didn't stop harassing me - they were coming to me place time and again, doing their dirty work that they used to do, harassing, assaulting.
I remember in 1992 policeman - I was a student then in Cape Town, they arrived at my home, they broke my shack door, they broke my wardrobe and I couldn't figure out what they were looking for. This is a recent incident that was 1992.  And I was phoned from Cape Town that policemen were assaulting people around the location.  They never stopped harassing me.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] where did you get your medical attention after you were released?

MR NTSOMI: I attended the Eben Donges end of Tape 1, Side B ...  we were not in good terms  because we were clashing, the exchange of words I couldn't like them - I had to respond.  So I've decided not to go to Eben Donges again. I find a private doctor - tried to get a private doctor, that was Dr Biko then, so he was my medical doctor and he was dressing me.   I never attended Eben Donges again because I didn't like the treatment and their reaction from a situation.
I thought it was known all over, even in hospitals because the attitude was also negative on my side so I've decided to be consulted by  a private doctor - so the doctor helped me a lot.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] doctor is in Worcester was he?

MR NTSOMI: Yes he was here, but he is no longer here now.

MARY BURTON: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Ms Gobodo.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Chairperson,  Zandisile I've listened to your whole story, trying to remind and the situation that you were after you were sent to the police station.  I also heard about the situation and the pain that was evoked from you.  Are there times when you feel the pain is being evoked?

MR NTSOMI: XHOSA -

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Can you tell us when you think about those times the most  things you still remember.

MR NTSOMI: Firstly, I was a soccer player before I got this accident - I was very much involved in the soccer.  I can no longer play soccer again because I have got an artificial leg.  That's one of the situations when I am seeing my team mates or colleagues or youngsters playing soccer,   the pain is being evoked.  And it is disturbing me a lot because I can't play soccer anymore.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: You are not the same person?

MR NTSOMI: No I am not the same person whom I use to be - or I know myself to be.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Do you still remember the doctor who attended you in Tygerberg Hospital?  The one who let you to the policemen?

MR NTSOMI: No, I am sorry I cannot remember his name - I can't even lie.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: The people who shot you, can you still remember them?