Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-16

LAURIE WASSERMAN: At a later stage, I didn't have any questions to ask Mr Nxiweni.  Later on myself, Mr Botha and Mr Du Preez left for the Allan Taylor residence.

MR VISSER: Did Du Preez tell you to come along?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes sir.

MR VISSER: And what did, is it correct that you lifted a DLB at the Allan Taylor residence?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Was this DLB, let me rather approach this differently, did you know Nxiweni before that day?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Did you know of activities allegedly participated by him in, in which he participated?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct sir.

MR VISSER: Yes.  We heard of an Allan Taylor unit.  Can you tell the Committee as far as you know, what names you can connect to what you referred to as the Allan Taylor unit?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, there is some confusion here about the Allan Taylor unit.  An awful lot of MK, military MK activity was emanating from Allan Taylor unit.  I am unable to always specifically state who was in which unit and where, but Pumeso Nxiweni was a prevalent Commander of Allan Taylor.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And is it your experience also that some of the members of units, were active in more than one unit at any one time?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What is Allan Taylor?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, it is the medical residential quarters for the University of Natal.  It is like a hostel.

CHAIRPERSON: And I presume it would change from year to year, the people staying there?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes, that would be correct sir.

CHAIRPERSON: So you would have a constant turn over of people there?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Very much so sir.

MR VISSER: You were about to tell us that you went with Botha to the Allan Taylor residence, and who else?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Du Preez.

MR VISSER: Du Preez, all right, and we know that you lifted, well, what did you find there, perhaps you should tell us in your own words?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: We went into a store room and found a metal trunk, which we were familiar with, it was the kind of trunk that we were familiar with when it came to DLB's and we opened it and found some explosives inside that trunk.

MR VISSER: All right.  Do you know what happened to those explosives which, to the contents of that DLB later?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, they were in the control of Mr Botha, I don't know what happened with them after that.

MR VISSER: Yes.  When you went back, or did you go back to the safe house at Verulam?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: What did you find when you arrived there?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Taylor had already commenced to dig a grave outside.

MR VISSER: Did he commence to dig the grave, or had he dug the grave?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: It was almost dug Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Yes, and where was Pumeso?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: He was still, he was at the safe house Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: At the safe house, or in the safe house?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: In the safe house Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Was there anyone with him?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: If I recall correctly, Mr Van der Westhuizen was still there Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: All right, so what happened thereafter?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Taylor sent Van der Westhuizen and Botha away.

MR VISSER: Away where?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I don't know Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Did they leave the premises?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: They left the premises.

MR VISSER: All right, and you, Du Preez and Taylor remained behind?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: What happened then?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Du Preez and I then led Mr Nxiweni out.

MR VISSER: Didn't Taylor tell you anything?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Taylor said yes, we must eliminate Mr Nxiweni.

MR VISSER: All right, he gave you the order?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct sir.

MR VISSER: And you say you and Du Preez then led Mr Nxiweni out,yes?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: To a point close to the grave.

MR VISSER: Yes.

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Du Preez then shot him a single shot in the head.

MR VISSER: Was Pumeso not rendered unconscious as had been the case with Ndwandwe?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Not on this occasion at all, no, he was not.

MR VISSER: Was Pumeso standing, sitting or laying when Du Preez shot him?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: He was standing Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: And where on his body, was he shot?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: He was shot on the side of his head Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Which side?  If you can't remember,just say so.

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I can't remember automatically.

MR VISSER: Pardon?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: But I can see on the papers, if you show me the paper, I can remember it.  I don't know if it was on the left temple or the right temple.

MR VISSER: But he was shot in the temple?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: Did he fall down?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Did you take his clothes off?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes, we did, we took off his clothes.

MR VISSER: Did you also put lime over the body there?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Refuse bags?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I don't recall refuse bags Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Was this during the day or the night?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: This was night time.

MR VISSER: Night time, could you see what was transpiring?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Yes Mr Chairman, it was with night vision, night eyes, it was fine.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Was Mr Pumeso blindfolded when he was led out of the house?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: He was Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Was the weapon silenced or not?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: It was a silenced weapon Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: What happened to the clothes both of Ndwandwe as well as that of Pumeso?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: We burnt the clothes on both occasions Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Both occasions?  Mr Wasserman, you heard the evidence as to why Mr Pumeso was killed, why it was thought necessary to eliminate him.  Do you agree with that evidence?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, I concur with the evidence given to the Committee thus far.

MR VISSER: Were you also aware of the information regarding Mr Nxiweni, which was received from Ms Ndwandwe?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I was aware Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: And were you convinced of the truth of what it was alleged that he was involved with as far as MK operations were concerned, in Natal?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Now, going over to the incident of the kwaMashu unit, were you involved in that incident as well?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I was Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Can you please inform the Committee what your participation and role was?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, my activities concur with that, with the evidence given by Mr Botha.  The use of informer there, the capture of the members of the unit on the Avoca Bridge and the transporting thereof, to the safe house.

MR VISSER: Were you involved with those informers who penetrated and gained their confidence?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I was not Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Who was the one who was involved, whose informers were they?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: I think Mr Botha was the handler,  I think.

MR VISSER: I see.  All right, the fact is that there was an arrest made for want of a better word, at the Avoca Bridge?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Did you have knowledge of a report that they were under way to blow up the railway line at Phoenix?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Railway station, all right, and what happened with them, after they were arrested?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: They were taken through to the safe house at Verulam Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: At Verulam?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Correct Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: What transpired there Mr Wasserman?  First of all, were they found in possession of anything?

LAURIE WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, on their arrest they had limpet mines with them.

MR VISSER: Limpet mines.  Can you remember how many?