Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1999-05-26

MRS MONTSO: This is the first time I hear about this today.

ADV STEENKAMP: Can you tell us something about your son. Where was he staying at the time when he, when he was killed? Where was he staying?

MRS MONTSO: He was staying at home.

ADV STEENKAMP: Was he staying there, for how long was he staying there?

MRS MONTSO: He grew up at that place. He was staying at home.

ADV STEENKAMP: No, you told me previously that he belonged to a gospel group. Can you tell us something about that. Was it a school group or what was it?

MRS MONTSO: That was a gospel group.

ADV STEENKAMP: Tell us, do you know any of the people testifying here today, the applicant and his brother?  At the time of the incident did you know any of them?

MRS MONTSO: They stay at Postmasburg but the first time that I knew them was when they were going to make statements.

ADV STEENKAMP: Before this incident, as far as you know, were your son involved in any gang activities or any other similar structures, to your knowledge?

MRS MONTSO: Well, I don't know. Not that I know.

ADV STEENKAMP: Now you heard what the applicant has testified today. Do you have any comment on what he said today to the Committee?

MRS MONTSO: I don't have anything to say, because I have lost a son. My husband died before and thereafter my son had died.

ADV STEENKAMP: Do you have any other children?

MRS MONTSO: Yes, I do.

ADV STEENKAMP: Can you just tell us shortly, briefly who they are?

MRS MONTSO: Zweli Montso, John Montso, and Bonica Montso and Victoria Montso.

ADV STEENKAMP: At the time of the incident, how old was the deceased?

MRS MONTSO: He was 18 years old.

ADV STEENKAMP: And what standard was he attending at school?

MRS MONTSO: He was in Std 10.

ADV STEENKAMP: As far as you know, was he ever involved in any scuffles or problems with anybody, including the police, or other gang related, or other gang members or anything like that? In all the years that he stayed at your house?

MRS MONTSO: It is the first time that I hear about this today here.

ADV STEENKAMP: And as I understood you correctly, you told me previously he was a very regular schoolgoing person, he was very committed to his school. Am I right?

MRS MONTSO: That's correct, sir.

ADV STEENKAMP: Now, you've heard the testimony of the applicant that he wasn't only a member of the gang, but he was actually the gang leader. Do you know of the existence of this gang in your township at the time when he was killed? Was there such a gang operating in your township?

MRS MONTSO: It is the first time that I hear this names. I never knew about this before today.

ADV STEENKAMP: And for how long before this incident were you staying in this township?

MRS MONTSO: I grew up in Postmasburg, attended school there, got married there. All my children were born there.

ADV STEENKAMP: I mean staying, you're saying, I'm referring to this specific township. You were staying there all your life, is that what you are saying?

MRS MONTSO: Yes, that's all my life.

ADV STEENKAMP: And as, if I understand correctly, it's actually a very close-knit community. It's actually a very small community. Am I right? Everybody knows everybody there. Am I right?

MRS MONTSO: There are people that I know and those that I don't know, because I always stay at home.

ADV STEENKAMP: But is it, but is it a small community?

MRS MONTSO: It's not that big.

ADV STEENKAMP: Right. The question I actually want to ask you, you've never heard of such a gang in your area at all?

MRS MONTSO: No, sir.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you, Mr Chairman. No further questions to the victim. Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Adv Steenkamp. Mr Mohlaba, any questions?

MR MOHLABA: No questions, Chairperson, thank you.

UNKNOWN: I just want to find out, you heard the evidence that your son at some time at least was a member of the ANC Youth League. Did you know of that?

MRS MONTSO: I don't know anything about that.

UNKNOWN: Were you supporters, your family, supporting the ANC?

MR MONTSO: No.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

MRS MONTSO: I thank you, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Anything else, Mr Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you, nothing, Mr Chairman. May I ask that the witness be excused? Thank you, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you. Mrs Montso, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MRS MONTSO: I thank you, Chair.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, I will not be calling any witnesses. Thank you, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mohlaba, have you got any submissions?

MR MOHLABA: Thank you, Chairperson. Briefly. Chairperson, the applicant has testified that he was recruited during 1990 by Shadrach Fundisa to be a member of the ANC and he was assisting in organising the ANC and worked as a
marshal in rallies. We heard that the deceased was at a certain stage a member of the ANC Youth League himself, but subsequently joined the Eagles which subsequently became the Stechers Lovers, which was a gangster. 
	We also heard that the deceased was a leader of this gangster movement and at one stage he tried to recruit the applicant to such a structure without success. We heard that the community complained to the ANC about the activities of the gang and that the applicant viewed such a complaint by the community members as a sort of a symbol of approval by the community of the elimination of the people involved in such atrocities in the community.
	On the date of this incident, it appears that the applicant and his brother were approached by the deceased and some other persons and a scuffle ensued. And it was not very clear from the applicant's side whether he relied on self-defence but on further questioning it transpired that self-defence was in fact an element as well, but he all along had a desire to eliminate the deceased.
	And it became very clear that the deceased was attacked and stabbed whilst lying on the ground and very clearly the deceased was no danger at all to the applicant at the time, and it was not necessary for the deceased, for the applicant to proceed and behave as he did to kill the deceased, if he did not formulate an intention earlier to kill him. So, it is very clear that the bounds of self-defence were exceeded by the deceased but with a motive. And such bounds were deliberately exceeded because of a political motivation, that is the deceased was always viewed as an enemy of the community and, given a chance, the applicant would have killed him. But it happened at a moment when the deceased made the first move. And in trying to defend himself, which he successfully did, he stabbed forward, that is proceeding to kill the deceased when he was no danger at all.
	So, this confirms his testimony that he, in any event, intended to kill the deceased and the reason for killing the deceased is none other than to eliminate him, because he was an enemy of the community, that he was a member of the gangsters.
	Chairperson, the question of the, the omission by the applicant in trial court to mention certain things, that this offence was politically motivated, could not be clearly articulated by the applicant himself. But the subsequent, that is the brother who came as a witness, sort of gave an indication to the Committee that during those moments, it was not easy to come out and it should be common knowledge to the Committee that the mere mention that we belong to a political organisation such as the ANC, would have, in fact, been an aggravating factor. They should have been viewed in a particular way by the trial judge. So it is true that the only way to get the leniency of the court was to conceal such very material facts.
	It is, therefore, my submission that the requirements of the Act have been satisfied and the applicant should be granted amnesty. Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Mohlaba. Mr Steenkamp have you got any submissions?