Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MR PRINSLOO: That is the statement Chairperson.  The original is in the possession of the applicant and I request permission to hand that in for purposes of the record.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR PRINSLOO: Yes I have thank you.   Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Wheeler you are applying for amnesty in this application is that correct?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And the evidence which you've just given, do you want that to be taken into account for the purposes of this application?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: That is all we have, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Koning have you any questions you would like to put to the witness?

MR DE KONING: Mr Chairman, if I may request that Mr Botha who I believe is opposing the application might first cross-examine, I think it might save us some time in as much as there might be matters which emanate from his cross-examination that I would like to deal with and further since a client arrived here shortly before, minutes before, we commenced there are a few minor aspects which I might just need to obtain an instruction on if it pleases you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any objection to that Mr Botha?

MR BOTHA: No, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions you would like to put to the witness?

MR BOTHA: Yes I do have questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR N W BOTHA

MR BOTHA: Mr Wheeler you are saying today here before this Committee that you were a member of the AWB?

JAMES WHEELER: That is correct.

MR BOTHA: Do you have any proof of your membership?

JAMES WHEELER: Unfortunately not.  During my detention my wife went to the headquarters of the AWB on several occasions to try and get information about us but to no avail.  Later however, she contacted the AWB offices in Randfontein and all that they could tell her was that they knew about us.

MR BOTHA: So as you sit here today you have no actual proof that you were a member of the AWB?

JAMES WHEELER: Correct.

MR BOTHA: Did you receive any orders or instructions from the AWB?

JAMES WHEELER: It was a well known fact that the 1994 elections were to take place and what proceeded those elections, certain announcements and statements were made by these people.

MR BOTHA: Did you receive an order, a direct order to you?

JAMES WHEELER: No.  The way these people spoke - that I took to be an order.

MR BOTHA: Did they advise you?

JAMES WHEELER: No.

MR BOTHA: Did they plan this thing for you?

JAMES WHEELER: No but they planned something bigger for South Africa.

MR BOTHA: You say that they planned something bigger for South Africa, what are you referring to?

JAMES WHEELER: I'm referring to statements made by certain right wingers of which we're all aware and in which it was stated how they would plunge the country into anarchy.

MR BOTHA: I'm not quite sure that I understand you, how was going to plunge the country into anarchy?  The blacks?

JAMES WHEELER: No, the right wingers.

MR BOTHA: What do you regard as a political objective?  To achieve a political objective?

JAMES WHEELER: We don't see people of colours and races, we look at them in terms of the party they belong to and we would then see what would happen if those parties took over the government of the country.

MR BOTHA: You said that you didn't see black people as belonging to a race or colour but simply as members of a political party?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes that's true.

MR BOTHA: Did you know that the Papiyana brothers who were driving in that car, did you know to which political party they belonged?

JAMES WHEELER: No - but ninety percent of the black people in South Africa belong to the ANC.  If a white person were shot the chances were a lot more remote that he would belong to the ANC than in the case of a black person.

MR BOTHA: Sir I could refer you to the judgement of Judge Mynhardt in this matter, if the Commission would just bear with me.  Judge Mynhardt says, I'll give you the page number in a moment, it's on page 47 of the bundle, it's page 358 of the judgement and line 30 at the bottom, that he would be able to kill black people and I may say that the terminology which was used in the evidence was not the term "black person" or "black people" but let's leave that there for the moment.  If you say that you wanted to attack a person belonging to a political party, why is the impression that was being created by your attorney and advocate at the trial that you simply went out to shoot black people, not ANC people or SACP members?

JAMES WHEELER: During my evidence in the court I said that we didn't decide to follow a political line with our affairs because right wingers before us had been given the death sentence for that kind of activity and that's why we were cautious.

MR BOTHA: Right, if that is the case, then during the proceedings in the Supreme Court, October 1994, you told a lie in court by saying that you had no political objective?

JAMES WHEELER: That's correct.

MR BOTHA: And the purpose was simply to save your own skin because you were under sentence of death or you could possibly face the sentence of death?

JAMES WHEELER: That is correct.  At that stage I was very concerned about my family, my child was 50 days old and I was thinking of him.

MR BOTHA: By the way, why did you not think of this child before you continued with this act when Mrs Pyper told you that this was a ludicrous thing which you were planning to do.

JAMES WHEELER: At that stage we didn't know what the extent of this thing would be.

MR BOTHA: At that stage you couldn't envisage how the planning would go and what exactly you would do?

JAMES WHEELER: That is correct.

MR BOTHA: I put it to you that you are quite possibly also telling a lie to this Committee.  This time not to save your skin but to get out of prison and therefore it's not an unfamiliar thing for you to tell a lie once again?

JAMES WHEELER: No.  In the case of the 1994 elections I could say that we were actually cowards but now that the opportunity has presented itself to fix things that went wrong on the past, I think we must accept that, we must grasp it with both hands.

MR BOTHA: Right.  If I can refer you to paragraph 4 of your affidavit, you say that your parents taught you to respect the freedom of the Afrikaner people and to promote it?

JAMES WHEELER: That is correct.

MR BOTHA: Did they teach you at any stage that one respects the Afrikaner people by killing black people?

JAMES WHEELER: No, that is not so.

MR BOTHA: Very well.  When you and Mr Pyper on the night of the 27th April decided to embark on this tragic mission of yours, were you acting in your capacities as military personnel of the state or any state body or organisation?

JAMES WHEELER: No.

MR BOTHA: Were you acting in your capacities as, or according to your versions, members of the AWB?

JAMES WHEELER: That's true yes.

MR BOTHA: But there was no direct order given to you to do that?

JAMES WHEELER: I accepted that by virtue of the statements by AWB and CP leaders that something was about to happen and that we should prepare ourselves for a war and at that stage there were bomb explosions on the East Rand and I thought the time had come.

MR BOTHA: Alright so it's this picture of a political war situation which you had in your mind at the time?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes.

MR BOTHA: And you were prepared for this situation of war, you had gone to buy supplies and you were prepared for this war situation?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes.

MR BOTHA: And you discussed politics?

JAMES WHEELER: Yes.