Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-08-01

MR WILLS: Thank you, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR WILLS: My understanding was - that won't be true.

CHAIRPERSON: But before the Magistrate you said that, that she would give you an amount of money for finding the radio and she went to her bedroom to fetch it, do you remember telling the Magistrate that?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I remember saying that before the Magistrate but that was not true.

CHAIRPERSON: And that was before the woman had given evidence.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: May you please repeat the question?

CHAIRPERSON: The women did not give evidence at the Magistrate's Court did they, the gave evidence at your trial at the Supreme Court.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: One of them came and gave evidence in court.

MR WILLS: Thank you Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Mbuyazi, let's start with the letter that was referred to by your council, the letter that you wrote to the Commission which I mean it has not been numbered perhaps it may be referred to as Exhibit A for completeness sake.  You know the letter I'm talking about that was shown to you by my learned
friend?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I remember.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ...(inaudible) this letter, was there any person forcing you to write what you've written here?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Nobody compelled me to write the letter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was the contents of the letter been suggested to you by somebody?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: What it is inside the letter, it's what I've written.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And when you were writing this letter you understood yourself very well?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I would like to ask because the letter was written in English and if you write the letter in English it's not the same like when you write a letter in Zulu.  One of our comrades inside the prison ...(intervention)

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What is on the letter was written by him and he was told by yourself?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I said to him in Zulu and he translated and wrote the letter in English.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you can read English not so?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I catch up here and there but I can't say that I fully understand English.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Before signing, you signed it yourself not so and wrote your prison number?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I didn't sign anywhere.

MR WILLS: ...(inaudible)

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ...(inaudible)  Is that where you wrote, the last line?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: No, that's not my handwriting, I didn't write anything in that letter.  If someone wrote the letter and put the name below yes, that's all that happened.

CHAIRPERSON: If you look at his application for amnesty at page 3 which is apparently signed by him, it does not appear to be the same signature.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I've noted that thank you.  But I'm going to read to you contents of this letter particularly paragraph 1 - I'll go slow so that you hear what I shall say.  It starts by saying I received your letter dated 19 June 1997 - I'm very much sorry to inform you that I'm unable to testify because I have seen that I do not quality to be a political prisoner, do you remember this?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I do remember that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What did you mean by this statement - I do not qualify to be a political prisoner?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I wrote that because I wanted them to withdraw my application in order for me not to appear before the Commission.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What did you mean by political prisoner - that you don't quality to be a political prisoner, what did you mean?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I said that because I wanted them to withdraw my application.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let's put it this way Mr Mbuyazi, what is a political prisoner?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: He's a person who has committed crimes under the name of a particular organisation, political organisation.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you were saying in your letter that it is not the case in your matter?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: As I've already explained, I only said those words in order to get my application withdrawn.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mpshe, may I interrupt.  Why did you think Mr Mbuyazi, it was necessary for you to state those words in particular, why didn't you just say you wanted to withdraw your application without having to advise specific reasons for withdrawing your application?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: The reason why I included those words is because I was trying to make sure that the particular person that was going to receive the letter will read the letter and also withdraw my application after reading such words.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I fail to understand why you couldn't just say you withdraw your application?  Were you told that if you merely stated your intention to withdraw your application, that intention will not be taken seriously by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: No, I wasn't so informed.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You testified that you wrote this letter amongst others because you were afraid that your family relatives would be attacked, do you remember that?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, that is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now when did you get the feeling or when did you start becoming afraid that your family relatives would be attacked?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I was afraid because even today I don't know where my relatives are at the moment or my family, it's possible that wherever they're hiding they might be followed and killed, that's why I decided to withdraw my application.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Respond to my question, when did you get the feeling that your family relatives would be attacked, when was that?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Since when the time I was arrested it's always in my mind and the fear that they might, even today.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you get any information upon your arrest that your family was being attacked?

INTERPRETER: Please repeat the question?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you get any information upon your arrest that your family was being attacked?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I didn't get any information because nobody used to visit me in prison up to today.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now after your trial and conviction and sentence, did you get any information that your family was being attacked?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: No, I didn't get any information with that regard because there was no-one to pass that information to me.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You were convicted and sentenced in September 1991, am I correct?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, that's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now in 1992, the whole of 1992, did you get the feeling that your family would be attacked?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I had such feelings because I know the very recent area  where I come from.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: In 1993?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I would say that since from the time that I was convicted and sentenced I had that fear and I think maybe I'll get some to rest out of me after I have appeared before the Committee.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You'll get some?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Excuse me?

INTERPRETER: He'll be relieved or get some rest.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: He'll get some release?

INTERPRETER: Relief.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: In 1991 - in 1992 you say since your conviction - 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 you had this feeling but you decided to put it on paper in 1997 July, can you explain that?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: As I've explained before, I mentioned the reason why I did that.  It's because I was afraid for the lives of my parents whom I don't know where they are at the moment.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And perhaps they - your feeling of being afraid got stronger in July 1997, after six years?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I tried to let it pass but it's not that easy.  I thought it would be better after appearing before the Commission..

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let's go to that text you testified about ...(intervention)