Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Mr Xhiba gave Mr Smith what he was sent to collect. What I would tell you is that I was behind Mr Smith whilst we were in the garage.  Besides me on my left-hand side was Mr Oliphant.  On that side of Mr Oliphant was Mr Mtjikelo.  What I would tell you Sir is that what was happening in front I am not able to tell you because I was behind him, but what I may tell you is that I know that the purpose was to give us petrol.  But to say at that time he was opening or putting in I am not able to tell you what he was doing because I was behind him.
	Then I looked at Mr Mtjikelo, who is the unit commander, then from there he gave me a sign. That sign was to say I should attack.  I didn't waste time.  I took my weapon which was on my waist, then I raised my hand, then I stabbed him at the back.  What I may tell you is that, yes, I stabbed him, I stabbed him once.  Immediately at that time I went outside.
	When I left the garage that is where then I met the wife to Mrs Smith, a White woman who is Mrs Smith.  She had a weapon.  I didn't waste time.  I went straight to her.  Even when I am trying to remember I don't remember how I came to go to her knowing that she had a gun.  She had a gun this way, it showed that this person knows how to shoot and the gun is dangerous, but the most dangerous person is the person behind the gun.  I was not afraid of the gun, I was afraid of her because the gun cannot control itself. 
	I went ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: He doesn't have to go around into those little details about whether the gun is more lethal than the individual.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Mohapi don't tell us about lethal the gun is, just tell us of your participation, what happened during the attack.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay. So I will tell you Mr Chairperson is that I struggled with this woman with this gun.  At that time this woman had her finger on the trigger whilst we were struggling.  Then there was a gunshot immediately.  Whilst I was struggling with her, that's at the time when Mr Mtjikelo appeared from the garage.  It happened that he was able to take the gun from Mrs Smith.  He was able to grab the gun and then at the end of that process he gave that gun to me.
	After he has given me the gun ...(intervention)

MR MTHEMBU: Will you tell the Committee the shot that rang out do you know where it came from?  Did it come from the ensuing struggle for the gun between yourself and Mrs Smith or did it come from another source?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I explained Sir that it seems as if her finger was on the trigger and because of that whilst we were struggling for the gun, at that time that is where it seemed as if she pressed the trigger and then the bullet rang.  I was able to hear that gunshot then whilst we were struggling.  That is the bullet from her gun.

MR MTHEMBU: Then Mr Mtjikelo appeared on the scene and he took the gun away from Mrs Smith, what happened then, thereafter?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: For him to give me the gun it was because he had a gun with him.  I didn't waste time.  I shot her.  I shot her this way.  I was not looking whether it's a (...indistinct) 3.8, that is an automatic gun.  There is no way you can (...indistinct) it.  My intention was to point at her to make her scared and stand there then it happened that I pulled the trigger then I shot her.
	What I may inform this Committee is that I shot her somewhere where in Afrikaans they say it's a "lies"(?). I don't know what that "lies" Mr Chairman.

MR MTHEMBU: A "lies", "lies" Mr Chairman.  A "lies", I think it's some part, I think the uppermost part of the stomach, the flesh that covers the stomach I think.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: That's how the Afrikaner people call it that way. I am not talking about a cow ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I would like him to tell us.  Forget what the Afrikaner people call it, what does he call that part of the body where he shot her?

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi tell the Committee which part of the body did you shoot Mrs Smith?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I may tell you Sir is that I knew later that that is the part called "lies" in Afrikaans where I shot her.  What I would explain is that in no way did I see where I shot her at that time.  Even today I am not able to show where I shot her.

MR MTHEMBU: But Sir at the time was it not demonstrated or shown to you in photographs or in physical description where exactly the second shot hit Mrs Smith?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I would explain is that I was never shown those photos by the magistrate's court or any official of the Department of Justice.  There is nowhere in court where I was asked about the photos.
	It happened that way.  After I shot her Mr Mtjikelo appeared then he went with this White woman to the house.  I am not able to inform you what they did in the house because I was outside all the time with that gun.  Up to the point, whilst I was standing outside I heard a gunshot, I heard four gunshots.  When I tried to look I found out that it came from Mr Xhiba.  I am not able to tell in which direction he was shooting because I don't know.  At that time then I thought that maybe the situation has changed, maybe this person, he has seen people because he couldn't have just shot without any threat.  It happened that at that time I went inside the house.  When I arrived in the house I met Mrs Smith. What I may tell you that I just told her that she should give me the car keys.  She told me that there are two cars.  The other one is Honda Ballade, the other one is a Mercedes Benz.  She told me that the Honda Ballade doesn't have petrol.  She gave me the keys for the Mercedes Benz.  I found her in the bedroom then I went with her to the kitchen if I remember well.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi before you demanded or asked for the keys from Mrs Smith did you do any other thing to her or not?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I would come to that point.  She went with me in the kitchen and gave me those keys.  It came to my mind that I am going to the car now. What I am supposed to do is to take out the car and put it in front so that when the comrades have finished they would find me ready waiting for them.
	There is something which in court called, in English they call it Annexure R which shows the list of things which were taken.  I took that thing which is called "groen gereite jas".  That "groen gereite jas" is something which looks like it is for rain or something but I took that with the intention of - if it is estimated it may bring quite an amount which is required, then I took that thing and left with it to the garage with the car keys.
	In the garage on top of the Honda there were case, if you look at that Annexure R there is "bosse sleutels" ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mohapi we don't have an Annexure R so just tell us what you took.  Confine yourself to what you are saying.  Annexure A?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I found those keys there then I went with them to the car.  I started, I ignited the engine then I left, then I parked it in front.  After that I sat down.  Whilst sitting inside those cars waiting for my comrades they arrived and they said to me I should open the boot.  They put in those things  which they had with them.
	During that moment I left the area until we were arrested, until I had to appear in court.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi I want to take you back to the time when you were in the house.  My question to you earlier was, before demanding the keys from Mrs Smith did you do anything to Mrs Smith or not once in the house?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I can explain to you Sir when I approached Mrs Smith I beat her on her chest, even on her shoulders, even when we were in court it revealed that she had internal injuries because I was beating her thoroughly and apparently she gave me the keys.

MR MTHEMBU: Do you know who cut off the telephone wires?