Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-07

ADV PRIOR: Yes.  Sorry, if I may just stop you there.  You learned when you returned with Mr McBride on the 12th of June.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No the morning of the 13th actually.

ADV PRIOR: The morning of the 13th, that the police had been there, they had arrested certain members of your family and were looking for you.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, so I realised I had to go into hiding immediately, so I was in hiding at the time when he came to ask me that evening, "You know I don't think it's good for you to stay indoors for so long, you need to go out.  I want to take you to the drive-in."  I was actually afraid, I didn't want to expose myself to the police and be arrested.

ADV PRIOR: So he told you you were going to the drive-in.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: Had you gone to the drive-in with him before?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: We'd gone to bioscope a lot, that was the first time we would go to the drive-in.

ADV PRIOR: Alright.  Just from that aspect, when you returned from Botswana and apparently that's when you learned there was a state of emergency, that your family had been treated quite shabbily by the Security Forces, almost in an inhumane way, what was Mr McBride's reaction to that?  Was he calm?  Was he angry at what had happened?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, I think he was actually quite calm because, in fact I was the one that was extremely anxious and all I said, I was in control of the situation, I was the one that said I want to go into hiding.  I don't want to be arrested.

ADV PRIOR: Alright and by that stage, although you had not been given specific information, you had basically put two and two together and realised that every time Mr McBride and the other members went out, usually the next day or that evening, you heard about an explosion or substations were knocked out, something to that effect.  Had you concluded then that what he was busy with was with sabotage and similar acts?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, that was actually the first time that I was involved with him on that particular evening and then discovered the following day that an explosion took place.  In all the others I was not involved with him.

ADV PRIOR: So was that the first time that you realised that he was possibly involved in causing explosions?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that was the first one because although I was charged with the Chamberlain one, when I picked them up after they had done something there, I didn't know that.  I picked him up from his father's workshop and even though I discovered later in the evening that there was an explosion there, the lights had gone out, I didn't know that, I didn't even suspect that he and the others did it.  I discovered it much later.

ADV PRIOR: Had you seen the Chamberlain Road, the second explosion that occurred there?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, I didn't see it.  In fact I was slightly out of town at the time because I had to drive Robert and some of the others, Welile into town to take a taxi, so when we came back in, I saw the township was in darkness.

ADV PRIOR: I just want to deal with one last aspect.  You drove onto the Marine Parade, you went to near the Parade Hotel, then you returned back to Pine Street, where the Cortina was, is that correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: You mean the first time we went to the ...(intervention)

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, you went in the direction or past the Parade Hotel and went back to the Pine.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I don't know at what point did we turn around and come back.

ADV PRIOR: Because from that you went back to Pine street and then...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: My understanding was and correct me if I'm wrong please, Ms Narkedien, was when they first drove on the Marine Parade, there were three of you in the vehicle and the Cortina was somewhere else other than Pine Street and then you went back to where the Cortina was and then you drove it from there to Pine Street, left Matthew and then you and Mr McBride went and parked the vehicle, as described by yourself.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that was the ...

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I was a bit confused.  On that occasion it seems that you, or at least Mr McBride was driving past and having a look at the place.  Was anything discussed that you can remember?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, there was no talking in the car.

ADV PRIOR: Whether you were going to be coming back to that spot or not?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, not at all.

ADV PRIOR: I just get the impression, when you returned there, in other words when you came out of the parking space and you were simply, there was an indication from Mr McBride that you should move out of that parking spot on the corner, that you really didn't know where to go.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.  I hadn't further instructions, so I didn't quite know what to do next.

CHAIRPERSON: If no traffic came, would you have just stayed there in Marine Parade?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I would have stayed there, exactly, I would have stayed just there, where I came out.

ADV PRIOR: When you learned the next day about the explosion and the blast outside the hotel, did you ever discuss that with Mr McBride?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I did, I had to try and send a message to him that he had to meet with me at another place and explain to me you know, what's really going on and I wanted to get out of Durban.  I just wanted to have no association with what had happened and I realised also that he also, well I didn't quite know what he was feeling, but he also then suddenly wanted to get out, so I said, "Well fine, you can come with me, but I'm going."  For me it was very disorientating.

ADV PRIOR: Yes, what I'm actually asking, was he still calm, was he agitated, was he depressed, did he express any remorse to you, anything like that?  Did he express any ...

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Well this is the part I don't really like because Robert is the big macho, bravado man, but yes he was extremely remorseful and very depressed for a very long time.

ADV PRIOR: I understand that from there you went to Johannesburg, is that correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: There's just two more aspects.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  The Klein family, we've heard evidence about Mr and Mrs Klein, did you know Mr and/or Mrs Klein?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I didn't know Mrs Klein so well, but Mr Klein, yes I knew him very well.

ADV PRIOR: And you heard evidence, I'm not going to rehash from you, he was a former principal etc, member of the Labour Party and a sometime police reservist?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, he was all those things and I knew he carried a weapon like all the others.

ADV PRIOR: Did you know whether they had children, or not?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I think all the children were married actually, they were married and living elsewhere.

ADV PRIOR: You did say you did know Mrs Klein as such, but did you know whether she was actively involved in politics at the time, Labour Party or anything like that?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I think she was involved in the Labour Party, but maybe not the way Mr Klein was in the terrorising the township, so to speak.

ADV PRIOR: Did you say he used to terrorise the township?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: It was a group of them.

JUDGE PILLAY: What did they do?