Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-17

MR LAX: The Court accepted a confession that you made to the police, do you remember that?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: Yes.

MR LAX: In that confession, was detail of you pointing out some, you took the home to one Martha Marole, do you remember that?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: Yes, I do.

MR LAX: How did you know that the firearms were there?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: A few firearms were there, I knew that.

MR LAX: The question was how did you know that?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: These were places that we were using for dead letter boxes.

MR LAX: In your statement to the police, you gave the names of four other people that were with you.  Do you remember that if you look at page 26 of the judgement, the extract is there Mr Leopeng.  He mentioned the name of Nau, another name Zelani, Winki and Lawrence.

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: Nau is Daniel, Winki as well as Xolani.  Lawrence is one person with whom I was arrested, he was a member of the Unit, but he was not on the scene of the crime.

MR LAX: The question I am asking is, why did you give the names of your comrades in that statement?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: On writing this statement, I must say that I was being beaten up and forced to admit.  I had to include Lawrence because he is the one with whom I was arrested.

MR LAX: I see.  You have said that you were a Commander of a sub-unit within the SDU, is that right?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: Yes, that is correct.

MR LAX: How did it happen that your Commander went along with you, even though you were a Commander of a sub-unit of that Unit?

VUSI SIDNEY MONONI: He was present on that day.  I could only be responsible if he was present, and I would be the one in those circumstances, to step in.

CHAIRPERSON: I think there was an error in your translation, he would have been responsible had he not been present.

INTERPRETER: Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Meaning he would have taken command had the Commander of the Unit been present.

MR LAX: Thank you Chair, I have no further questions, I have covered everything for myself.

ADV BOSMAN: I have no questions, thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: I have no questions either.  Mr Leopeng, emanating from the questions by Ms Thabete and by Mr Lax, do you have anything to re-examine Mr Mononi in?

MR LEOPENG: Yes Madam Chair, just one issue.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed to do so.

MR LEOPENG: Mr Mononi tell us, how many shots went off during the operation on the 14th of August 1993?

CHAIRPERSON: Hasn't that been covered Mr Leopeng, I will not allow that question.  You have already covered that aspect in your evidence in chief.  I want you to re-examine him on any aspect that came up during Ms Thabete's cross-examination and Mr Lax's questioning.

MR LEOPENG: Madam Chair, other than that question, I don't have any other questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LEOPENG
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  You may proceed to call your next witness.

MR LEOPENG: I beg leave to call Veli Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Leopeng, is it still your intention to call a witness in support of your client's application?

MR LEOPENG: Mr Chair, after considering the matter, I have decided not to call the other witness any more.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Can you please make sure that the microphone of your client is switched off.  Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: Madam Chair, can I proceed to call Mr Nkuna?  He is now Captain Nkuna.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed to do so.  Captain Nkuna, will you please take the stand.

MS THABETE: Can I proceed, Madam Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nkuna, are you prepared to take an oath?  In that case, will you please rise in order to take the oath?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may be seated sir.

MS THABETE: Captain Nkuna, can you state your full names for the record please?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: My names are Mbasima Richard Nkuna.

MS THABETE: Is it correct that you were at the scene where Mr Mathonsi was shot and you were assaulted?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: It is correct.

MS THABETE: Can you go ahead and tell this Committee what actually took place that day briefly, on the 11th of August 1993?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: Yes, I can.

MS THABETE: Please proceed.

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: It was in the morning, I can't remember the exact time.   It was myself and Bernard Mathonsi, we left our office and went to a place behind the police station, next to a post office because we were supposed to post some letters.
	After posting the letters, we left and went to a place where they go repair my tyre.  While I was talking to the person who was repairing my car tyre, Mathonsi was standing behind me and I heard a gunshot.  When I turned and looked back, I saw Mathonsi trying to run away.

CHAIRPERSON: As you give your evidence, we are trying to make a record of what you are telling us.  We therefore would request you to speak at a pace that will enable us to take down that which you are saying.  We also have to ensure that the Translators are in a position to translate everything that you say to us, and that they do not miss a word because of the fast pace at which you are giving your evidence.
	We therefore will implore you to slow your pace, thank you.  You may proceed.

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: Can I start from the beginning?

MR LAX: No, you can start from the place where you said you went to the post office, you went to the tyre repair shop, you were talking to the owner and while you were talking to him, you heard a shot.

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: After I heard the gunshot, I looked back and I saw Mathonsi trying to run away.

MS THABETE: Mr Nkuna, was there any struggle that took place between Mr Mathonsi and one of the people who were attacking him before he was shot?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: There was no struggle because he was behind me and facing the same direction.  He was shot from behind, so he didn't get a chance to fight with these people.

MS THABETE: Can you proceed?  You ran away and then what happened?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: Instantly I saw two people next to me, the other one was pointing a firearm at me, and the other one was trying to disarm me, taking my firearm from my holster.

MS THABETE: Is the person who had pointed the firearm at you, present today, will you recognise him?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: The person who pointed a firearm at me is not present before the Committee or in this hall.

MS THABETE: You may proceed.

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: Then I saw Mathonsi falling down.   The other one was starting to shoot at me, I raised up my hand and he fired the other shot.

MS THABETE: You may proceed.

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: I tried to take my firearm from my holster and I fell on the ground, and it is then that they started running away from us.

MS THABETE: The applicant's evidence is that you ran away.  What is your response to that?

INTERPRETER: Excuse me, we didn't get the last part of the question.

MS THABETE: What is your response to that?

INTERPRETER: We didn't get the statement you are putting.

MR LAX: Just repeat the question.

MS THABETE: The applicant's evidence is that it is not them who ran away, but you ran away.  What is your response to that?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: That is not true.  They are the ones that ran away after they saw my trying to pull out my firearm from my holster.

MS THABETE: You have seen the applicant today, do you recognise him as being present on the day of the incident?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: Yes, I do recognise him.

MS THABETE: Do you remember what he did that day?

MBASIMA RICHARD NKUNA: I said the first gunshot, when I turned to look back, I saw him pointing the firearm at Mathonsi.

MS THABETE: Is that all you saw him doing?