Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-19

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson, just a few.
	Mr Strydom, as I understand it there reason why you planted these explosives to the various places which you have just mentioned is because you did not want the elections to go ahead.

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That is correct, Chairperson, in order to create chaos.

MR MAPOMA: And because the then National Party Government was collaborating with the ANC towards those elections?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: And you had to attack the ANC oriented areas and supporters, is that so?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: The properties of those people, that is correct, Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: And in all these attacks that you waged, you have never attacked any National Party Government oriented property, is that not the case?

CHAIRPERSON: There was the tower, the SABC.  I don't know, they would vehemently deny that it was Nationalist Party but it was at that stage one could say.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: It was a government paid for property.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, I understand, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: But you can put the question.  Carry on, I'm not stopping you.

MR MAPOMA: Why were your attacks - why were your targets predominantly ANC and not that of the National Party Government?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Chairperson, as you yourself said, it was not only the ANC, if you look at Agriman, that was also a National Party member, Chairperson.  And it was not only meant for the ANC.

MR MAPOMA: And let us go to the bomb that killed Mr Ramolla.  You say you had to place that bomb because there was going to be an ANC meeting in that area?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: But surely the meetings was not going to be at the taxi rank?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Chairperson, that was the means of transport as far as we knew because most of the ANC members would arrive by means of public transport, people who would have gone to the town.

MR MAPOMA: And am I correct when I say that that taxi rank was a taxi rank used by the black people?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Yes, by ANC supporters for that specific meeting, Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: That was a public day, the taxi rank was used by everybody, not necessarily people for the meeting.

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That's correct, Chairperson but we felt whilst we investigated this, that the person who was not a member of the ANC would not go to town that specific day because he would have been scared.

MR MAPOMA: Why?  Why would a person not go to town because there's an ANC meeting?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Chairperson, if we look at the previous marches the ANC held in towns and the damage which was caused, because of that we inferred that any person who was not a member or supporter of the ANC would not go to town.  We also know that most of the workers did not go to work on such days.

MR MAPOMA: Is it not because you attacked that place because you wanted to kill black people?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, Chairperson, under no circumstances.

MR MAPOMA: And at the school which was owned by Mr Beukes, Mr Beukes was not a teacher of that school, not so?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, he wasn't a teacher.  He lives right opposite the school.

MR MAPOMA: And there was no way that he would be injured if that bomb detonated?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Under no circumstances, Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: The potential people who would be injured are those black children who were students at that school.

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: I did not hear the question properly.

MR MAPOMA: Had the bomb that you planted there detonated, the only potential victims there are the black scholars who were attending that school, is ...(intervention)

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, Chairperson, the bomb which they found there had a watch mechanism and it would have detonated at 3 o'clock in the morning, like all the others.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it a boarding school, did they kids sleeping in a hostel there that might have been a victim if it had gone off?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, Chairperson, it was basically just a school, people only attended the school during the day.

MR MAPOMA: On page 94 of the paginated bundle there is a statement there by Mr Beukes, the owner of that school and on the 5th paragraph there, Mr Beukes denies that he was in any way oriented to the ANC, what is your comment to that?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: Chairperson, everybody in the Ottosdal vicinity as well as Sannieshof and Delareyville know Mr Beukes and also knows that he's an ANC supporter as regards to politics and also that he strongly supported the National Party/ANC Alliance.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, I have no further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Ms van der Walt, do you have any re-examination?

MS VAN DER WALT: No re-examination by Ms van der Walt.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Doctor Tsotsi, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

DR TSOTSI: No, questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: Just a few, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Strydom, I didn't follow you correctly.  You said Mr Beukes was a supporter of the NP/ANC Alliance.

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR SIBANYONI: Was there such an alliance?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: With the negotiations yes.  According to the AWB the National Party since the release of the State President, Mr Mandela the National Party was in an alliance with the ANC.

MR SIBANYONI: You are referring to them negotiating the future of the country together, not necessarily that they were in partnership in any form?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR SIBANYONI: Usually there are some night watchmen at schools, at this particular school was there no night watchmen?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, not at all.

MR SIBANYONI: You say you didn't implement the mission at Lichtenburg because there were people living there, you didn't go out to kill people.  Which people were living there?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: People from the prison live around there, as well as policemen and all members of the public.  It had nothing to do with race, it was a multi-racial area.  There were people from all sections of society living there.

MR SIBANYONI: But if you were not going out to kill people, you wouldn't put a bomb at an entrance of a taxi rank because at that one specifically there will be a person who will be killed if that bomb was detonated.

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: That is correct, Chairperson, we foresaw that people could get injured with the explosive device in Bultfontein but it was more about the meeting and hopefully we wanted it to cause damage to a vehicle.  I was of the opinion that a big vehicle would create the explosion and that would be damaged.  Unfortunately it was a person on a bicycle.

MR SIBANYONI: Didn't you stop the mission at Lichtenburg because you foresaw that also white people were likely to be killed but the one at Bultfontein taxi rank exclusively black people would be killed?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, Chairperson.

MR SIBANYONI: In other words you were not racist in your activities?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: No, not at all.  Since I can remember I've been working with all races in South Africa and I also have good friends who are from other races.  I'm not a racist.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, no further questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, that landmine that was placed at the taxi rank, was it a homemade landmine or was it a military landmine, they type that the army uses?

DE WET JOHAN STRYDOM: It was homemade landmine, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know much about explosives but how powerful was that mine, let's say compared to the average landmine that's used by the military in a war situation?