Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

CHAIRPERSON: Please come up.   What's Nabo's full name ?  Let me help you take an oath.   Johnson Nongena, please stand up.

JOHNSON NONGENA: (sworn states)

MASIXOLE SKIET: (sworn states)

L IZO NABO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: We did call you your names before, but you were not here, so we would like you to be brief  because we have to go to Cape Town to attend a meeting.  I will start with you, Mr Johnson Nongena.  You are a member of PAC?

MR NONGENA: Yes, that is so.

CHAIRPERSON: It was banned in 1960.

MR NONGENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: In 1963, it started fighting against the Government ?

MR NONGENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: On the 8th of April 1963, something happened, which led to your presence here to-day.

MR NONGENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Please tell us what happened Sir.

MR NONGENA: We were 17 people here in town who got arrested.  We were going to attack boers in the charge office.  I was one of the leaders of that group.  The boers were treating us badly at the time.  When we arrived in the charge office, the gate was too small.  I was one of the people who entered first.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you armed ?

MR NONGENA: Yes, with axes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have any petrol bombs ?

MR NONGENA: No, we did not have any petrol bombs.  When we entered the charge office, there was one young man Njopo.  There were other leaders who were arrested before.  They were in that charge office.  I went straight to the charge office.  We were to attack the charge office.  The boers ran away when they saw us because we were armed.  I recognized one of them.  He had a gun in his hand.  I had a petrol bomb and an assegai.  I threw that assegai. He was, he was standing 15 metres away from me.  The other men had ran away.  Njopo was the only one, who was there with me.  When I was about to leave, I got shot and I was struck in my leg.  I then tried to run away.  When we were about to reach a corner, I could not run any longer.  There was blood, I tried to hide, in a rubbish bin.  After a while I saw them with a torch,  I hought it was in the morning.  It was at about 1 in the morning.  I thought that he did not see me.  He passed me, he then came back.  He said, come out Poqo.  We were known as Poqo at the time.  He talked Afrikaans, saying that, come out Poqo.
 There were three men, black men, Coetzee and another police.  I don't know his name.  They asked for weapons.  I told them that I did not have any weapons with me.  I could not walk.  This black man helped me.   Coetzee said that he must not help me, he must leave me.  This man said that I cannot leave him there.

CHAIRPERSON: You were then arrested ?  You were handcuffed and you were taken to prison.

MR NONGENA: They handcuffed me at that time.  I then sat down.

CHAIRPERSON: And  Joubert(?)  was also assaulted.  When you sent to Queenstown ?

MR NONGENA: We were arrested in King William's Town.  There was a lot of us and we were divided.  One group went to King William's Town.  We'd go up here at the Judge, now and again but even there it was postponed,  transferred to Grahamstown until we were sentenced.

CHAIRPERSON: Twelve years.

MR NONGENA: 12 years.

CHAIRPERSON: Judge Cloetze sentenced you.?

J NONGENA: Yes, Judge Cloetze.

CHAIRPERSON: Therefore, you went to Robben Island ?

MR NONGENA: Yes, but we went via Port Elizabeth.  We stayed there for about two, three weeks and then to Robben Island.

CHAIRPERSON: Your health deteriorated at the island ?

MR NONGENA: I was, I would go to Cape Town.  They wanted me to work at the prison, but I couldn't because my joints were affected.  I could not even walk properly.  Fago, who passed on would help me walk.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see a doctor in prison ?

MR NONGENA: There was a doctor in the prison that would examine me.  It was difficult even to sleep.  I was bent.  I told this man that if I go to work, I won't come back.  If they forced me what I'd do is, I would send someone to tell the boers that it was too difficult for me.

CHAIRPERSON: So what eventually happened ?  How were your released ?

MR NONGENA: These men, I was then told to go to ....(indistinct)... for the sick.  It is on this day that I was sent through to Cape Town when a plaster of paris was put around me.  After a month, it was removed.  It was from my upper chest to my waist.  They removed it because it was too painful.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps you can show us later.

MR NONGENA: I went here to other doctors who examined me.  I wore another plaster of paris.

CHAIRPERSON: You were released in 1975  ?

MR NONGENA: Yes, I was released in 1975.

CHAIRPERSON: Your request to the Commission is that you'd like the Commission to tell the President that you got injured while you were in the struggle.

MR NONGENA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You also would like a project to be started in your area, in order to encourage people ?

MR NONGENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did I leave out something ?

MR NONGENA: Coetzee, I would like him to come forward to apologize, to ask for forgiveness, it you he is still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: If Coetzee's still alive, you want him to come and apologize ?

MR NONGENA: Yes, because Charles came to me and he came to apologize and I forgave him.  I would like Coetzee to come forward, if he's still alive and apologize.

CHAIRPERSON: If he is still alive, we are going to tell him to come forward because there won't be peace between yourself and him.  Thank you, Mr Nongena.
  Mr Sandi will lead Masixole with questions.

UNKNOWN: Perhaps we could start with Lizo Nabo.  Mr Nabo we heard twice about this incident.  I don't think that we should go into too much detail, but briefly tell us please, how you are affected  at home.

L IZO NABO: We moved from Bluerock, 1981 or 82.

UNKNOWN: Mr Nabo, you were beaten up that day.

L IZO NABO: We got such problems, beaten with, by sjamboks but they were not severe.   The problem was at Potsdam.  We had to leave Potsdam as a result.  When we left, we had a meeting.  I then had to leave and stand outside because we thought they were going to destroy the venue.  As I was outside, there were people who ran away and went to the travel police station.  They had weapons.  They said we must raise our hands.

UNKNOWN: Is this the time you were beaten ?   How did they torture you.

L IZO NABO: They tied me, my hands behind my back, they said I must divulge where the meeting was.

UNKNOWN: Where you able to take them ?

L IZO NABO: I'd refused.  I said I don't know, they must go to the person who said there was a meeting.  They took me to Shebeens, they asked people in the Shebeen if I was the one.  I was identified as such.  They hit me with guns, beating me up.

UNKNOWN: As a result of this you got terribly injured.

L IZO NABO: Yes, on my head, also my one eye does not see well because I was beaten up.

UNKNOWN: Do you get any form of treatment ?

L IZO NABO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Are you still under treatment ?

L IZO NABO: Now and again.

UNKNOWN: So, you lost some of your furniture.

L IZO NABO: Yes.  My stuff was terribly damaged.

UNKNOWN: Mr Nabo, we're not going to go into too much detail, but you request that your children be educated, you need help.

L IZO NABO: Yes, because I do not work.  I lost my job at the Post Office in 1987.

UNKNOWN: Where do you stay now ?

L IZO NABO: In Mount Ruth, in a shack.

UNKNOWN: You have a request that the Government may perhaps build you a house.

L IZO NABO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Three children you have ?

L IZO NABO: The fourth one is very, very small.

UNKNOWN: Is that all, Mr Nabo ?

L IZO NABO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  Masixole!  Masixole, you are here to talk about yourself ?

MASIXOLE SKIET: Yes, that is correct Sir.

UNKNOWN: You go, you're going to talk about what happened to you in 1993.  You were 17 years old then.

MASIXOLE SKIET: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: What happened in 1993 ?