Amnesty Hearings — White River — 2000-05-04

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Ras, please rise.  You are Martinus Christoffel Ras, is that correct?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, please be seated.  Mr Smit.

MR SMIT: I shall continue in Afrikaans.  To commence may I just mention, to facilitate the proceedings, Chairperson, the applicant, Mr Ras' application is similarly based on the facts of the previous applicant, Mr Kruger.  I shall quickly go through the documents in this regard.  No persons were killed or injured, as at the time of Mr Kruger's deeds.

MR SMIT: Mr Ras, may I refer you to your supplementary statement.  I shall commence with that.  Before your application you completed two affidavits, the first is on page 57 to 59 of the bundle, and the second is a supplementary affidavit from page 133 to page 137 of the bundle, is that correct?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That's correct.

MR SMIT: And then you sent a letter to the Committee, which appears on page 98 to page 100, which was not attested to, it was just sent through.  You have read it recently, do you confirm the contents of these three documents and that we may hand it up as evidence?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR SMIT: Mr Ras, your application as we have mentioned, is similar to that of Mr Kruger, you apply for two bomb explosions at the Lowveld High School, as well as at the Sabie Magistrate's Court, and offences for which you were charged with in the Regional Court, as appears from Annexures A1 to A10, page 31 to 39.  This also includes the storage of explosives.  Nowhere were any explosives stored on your premises, the possession is just that you had these explosives in your possession before they were planted at the school and at the court.

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct.

MR SMIT: With regard to the explosions, as I had asked Mr Kruger, from whom did you receive your instructions to place these explosive devices at the court and at the school?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: From Mr Ben Snyders.

MR SMIT: In both cases?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Yes.

MR SMIT: You were a member of the Conservative Party at the stage when these acts were committed for which you apply for amnesty.

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct.

MR SMIT: Were you a member of the organisation Toekomsgesprek?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: At that stage I was not a member.

MR SMIT: You were not a member.  The membership was upon invitation only, is that correct?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct.

MR SMIT: Were you in the process of becoming a member, or what motivated you to become part of these actions?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: I had already been approached by Mr Jan Kruger, because one had to be an invited person.  I went to some meetings along with him.

MR SMIT: These are now Toekomsgesprek meetings?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct, yes.

MR SMIT: Did you receive training in the manufacturing of explosive devices?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: I did receive training, yes.

MR SMIT: From whom did you receive such training?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: From Mr Jan Kruger.

MR SMIT: But this was not in Toekomsgesprek policy, this was separately that you received your instructions?  This was in preparation for your membership.

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That is correct, yes.

MR SMIT: The instructions which you received now from Mr Snyders to plant these bombs, did you accept these instructions in your capacity as a member of the Conservative Party, or in your personal capacity, because you were not a member of Toekomsgesprek?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: I had already been invited to meetings held by Toekomsgesprek, of which Mr Douw Steyn was the speaker  As Mr Jan Kruger said just now, when the meeting was already adjourned, Mr Douw Steyn approached us outside where Mr Ben Snyders, Mr Jan Kruger and I were standing, where he told us that Lowveld High was a problem and that a plan had to be made with the school.  ...(transcriber's interpretation)

MR SMIT: Very well.  And thereafter you were approached by Mr Snyders who said "Come along, we shall blow up the school".

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Yes that is correct.

MR SMIT: Did he tell you where he received his instructions from?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Yes, from Douw Steyn.

MR SMIT: Just for the Committee's information, the Magistrate's Court and Lowveld High School, did you detonate these bombs by means of timing mechanisms?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: No, we had delayed detonators.  It is something that one had to light, so one was sure that it would explode.

MR SMIT: And can you recall at what time this was done?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: This was approximately 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning.

MR SMIT: So you went at night when there were no people there?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Yes, we went when there were no people.

MR SMIT: The purpose, why did you accompany the other gentlemen and help with the collection and storage of firearms and explosives?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: I can say that at that stage the country was in a war situation and one was incited by rightist movements, so much so that one would believe anything they would tell us, and that is why I decided that I would become a part of it, a part of this struggle against the them National Government.

MR SMIT: When you say you were incited, were you incited by person who delivered speeches at Toekomsgesprek meetings or at Conservative Party meetings?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Both.

MR SMIT: With CP meetings can you recall any names of persons who incited you, who made you feel that you needed to do something?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: Also at Conservative Party meetings it was also Mr Douw Steyn who delivered speeches there, as well as Christo Smit, but these were just general political meetings.

MR SMIT: And did you receive instructions at the meeting or did they come afterwards?  You now have said that Mr Douw Steyn approached you after the meeting and said that Lowveld High had to be blown up.

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: That was a Toekomsgesprek meeting.

MR SMIT: Not specifically a Conservative Party
meeting.

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: No, those are closed meetings.

MR SMIT: Very well.  Evidence was given here by Mr Snyders as well as Mr Kruger that the Secretary-General, Mr Andries Beyers, the Secretary-General of the CP, was present when some of these explosive devices were tested.  Were you present when this took place?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: No, I was not there.

MR SMIT: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SMIT

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Morgan, questions?

MR MORGAN: None, Mr Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MORGAN

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Bank.

MR VAN DER BANK: Mr Ras, at this stage do you know what the Chairperson of the CP at that stage, do you know what his political affiliation is at this stage?

MARTINUS CHRISTOFFEL RAS: No.

MR VAN DER BANK: I have no further questions, thank you, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER BANK

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr van der Bank.  Ms Mtanga.

MS MTANGA: I have no questions, Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Chair, I don't have questions.

MR SIBANYONI: I've got no questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Smit, anything further?  Re-examination?

MR VAN DER BANK: I have nothing further to add, Mr Chairperson.  That is the case for Mr Ras.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Morgan, are you tendering any evidence?

MR MORGAN: None, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Bank?

MR VAN DER BANK: None, thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ms Mtanga.

MS MTANGA: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Smit, have you got any submissions on the merits of the applications.