Amnesty Hearings — Mabopane — 1998-08-07

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now it is your time to tell the Committee what you want to say, in your own words.

MRS MOLOPE: What I want to tell the Committee is that I want to thank this Committee for this issue to be exposed before the whole family.  I want to thank all these people who took part in this terrible deed, that God should bless them.  To forgive them or not to forgive them will not a thing.  What happened has happened.  I want to thank them for what they did.  God knows everything.
	In all those days when I requested I was isolated from my family.  I believe that today they heard the truth, they will come near me.  You who have planned this thing, you've killed a person who was a murderer.  I know now that there are no murderers who kill God's children.  He disappeared from the eyes of the people whom he was torturing.  
	In those words I want to thank this Commission.  I thank you.  After you have revealed this incident after 12 years, let me say my husband, I know that he was killed with 21 bullets.  They were not killing him but they were slaughtering him.  Even when he was lying on the ground they continued shooting but it is alright.  I give all things to God.  God knows everything, even today.  He knew how the day will be.  Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Molope.
	Mr van den Berg?

MR VAN DEN BERG: Mr Chairman, I don't have any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DEN BERG

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No questions Mr Chair, that will be all.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

MR LENGANE: None.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR LENGANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Molope.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, as I had indicated yesterday about Mr Mokobojane, a notice was served on him yesterday and he is today present.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you need time to consult?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I did have time to consult with him Mr Chairman.  May I call him Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: It's up to you Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, he will be speaking Tswana.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mokobojane, do you have any objection to taking the oath.

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mokobojane, could you please let us know your full names?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: Diale Jerry Mokobojane.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?
	If you're speaking in Tswana you must put the earphones on please.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mokobojane, you knew the late Mr Molope very well?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: That is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You worked together in the then Boputhatswana Police Force?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: That is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And at the time of his death, in the year 1986, you were the commander in the Audi region, am I correct?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: At that time, yes, that is correct.  I mean at the time of his death, that is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And he was at the time stationed in Mafeking?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: At that time yes, it is correct he was in Mafeking.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Mokobojane, the reason why you were called to attend today is because members of the family, both yesterday and today, stated to this Committee that yourself and the applicants planned the killing of Mr Molope, what is your comment to that?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: Chairperson, my comment is as follows:  Before I comment let me start by saying, I thank the husband of Molope, that is happened - I would like to say that I am happy as Mrs Molope has already indicated that it is a good thing that this thing was finally revealed and thus it eradicates the rumours and the allegations that were assumed to be true and people have been arguing about who is telling the truth or not.  And I'm happy today that the truth has finally surfaced today.
	All the thoughts and allegations have been a lie.  I know nothing, I know nothing about the plans of the death of Brigadier Molope.  I want to stress the fact that me and Molope liked each other very much.  Even on the day of his death he was at my home when I was still staying in Unit 8.  
	He found me at my home with my two younger children.  He told me that he has just arrived from Mafeking and he found nobody at his home.  It was in the afternoon.  We had some tea and thereafter he left with my two children.  We followed each other in our cars, the car that he had used from Mafeking.
	We were on our way to the vegetable store which is Mr Palazi's vegetable market in Boekenhout.  We both bought vegetables and thereafter we went separate ways.  He told me that he was going home and I told him that I am going home as well.
	I thought that when he said he was going home he was going to the D Section.  I went back home.  In the afternoon, I don't recall exactly what time but it's between four and 6 o'clock, Maklauli arrived at my home in Unit 8 and I was still with my children when he got there.  At that time he said to me Mr Molope has been shot and hurt.  He didn't say that he is dead.  When he told me, he said that this happened at some house in Beirut.
	That surprised me because I told him that: "No, I was with him a while ago and we both bought vegetables, he's gone home, have you just heard this from people"?  I told him that this is not hearsay, I've seen him, I've seen ...[indistinct] to come and call you.  I did not know that place that he was referring to, not at all.
	We both left and he showed me where Mr Molope was killed.  When I got there he was already taken to hospital.  We went to the hospital and I found him there but unfortunately he was already dead when I got there. Therefore I would like to thank this Commission that - because no-one ever thought what the truth was and everybody was confused, including myself and Mrs Molope.  	Now the truth has come out, even if they are disagreeing with the truth that has been told here, but now they know who exactly did this.  There is nothing else I can say but I want to stress is that I've got no links with these gentlemen.  I've never had any links with them before and I don't even know them.  That is all I can say, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe, any further questions?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I believe certain newspaper cuttings were put before your good selves.  I'm going to continue with the witness based on these newspaper cuttings.  It's two pages Mr Chairman.  I'm not going to read everything, I'm just goining to ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: What we'll do Mr Mpshe, there are two photo-copied pages of press clippings, the one is headed
"Mangope Ordered Hit"
We'll call that Exhibit A and the other page:
"Hit Squad Man Cuts Himself - How Top Bob Cop Was Assassinated"
We'll call Exhibit B.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
 	Mr Mokobojane, undoubtedly you knew a very well known businessman by the name of Mkansi, Petros Mkansi?  You knew him very well?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: That's correct Sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And did you know a young man who was a prisoner in the Bop, in the then Bop, David Mzemela?  There's a young man who evidence at the various Commissions, do you remember him?

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: No, I don't know him, I only saw him at that time when he appeared.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee I'm moving to Exhibit A, I'm going to A.
	Mr Mzemela testified to the effect that you actually established a hit squad within the then Bop Government, called the Zebra Force.

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: I don't know, I previously denied that and I'm standing by that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And he testified that he is one of those that alleged that they killed Brigadier Molope.  He testified that he was given instructions by yourself to go and kill Molope.

DIALE JERRY MOKOBOJANE: I wouldn't say that he is lying if he says that he killed Brigadier Molope but the fact that he got instructions from me is pure lies, it's not true at all.