Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-30

WITNESS:  You know, it was only after 1990 that of course we could even utter the word ANC in this country, and before that we had - there were lots of people that used to come and go, became family confidantes, would come and share meals with us.  It was only after Lennie died did we realise that these guys were activists as such, and they knew a lot more.  But still they were very evasive about things.  They acted they themselves didn't know about anything, you know, and I always tried to establish, you know, at least some - "What was your line of communication?"  And it was never - it was always sketchy, never direct answers.  And this is another thing that plagues the family, the fact that since Lennie left home there was not a message, not one word from Lennie.  Not at all until he died.  And I always tried to question, you know, "What line of communications do you guys have?"  At least a phone call or - be it not a phone call, I had some letter or something to say that, "Listen, he is well, he is fine."  My mum was very concerned about the fact that Lennie was a total vegetarian, and just to see how he was doing, you know, how he coped with being out of the country, and just the fact that is he still keeping on with his diet, or still a vegetarian?  You know, just these little things that we wanted to know, and we just couldn't seem to get anywhere.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: /COMMISSIONER

COMMISSIONER: Mr Naidu, both Mr Naidus, you heard the
comments that I made earlier to the witness before you, Gloria Nyoka, and I repeat those for your benefit as well.  We can only imagine what you and your family must have gone through to have to identify your brother, and your son, in the condition in which you found him.  He was a young person who, as you have said, devoted much of his younger life to doing voluntary work for others.  He became politicised, as was inevitable for an aware young person in those days.  He left the country.  If you just consider that if he had been arrested and charged according to the law in those days, charged for being a member of the ANC, charged for leaving the country unlawfully, or without a passport, there's no doubt that he would have been alive and free today.  But that's not how it happened in those days, and the overwhelming probabilities are - taking into account that both these groups died on different days in exactly the same circumstances, the overwhelming probabilities are that they were simply murdered, and placed - as I recall from those times - on top of each other in a prison cell, where you had to identify them.
We know that Mr de Kock and Mr Nafumela have applied for amnesty, and we will be having a very close look at those applications for amnesty to see whether they make full disclosure, as they are obliged to do, and to see what their version is of these events.  It is also possible that when de Kock gives his address in mitigation of sentence - as you know he's just been sentenced on 89 charges, including six of murder - when he gives his address in mitigation of sentence it is expected that he  will refer to other incidents, and that also may be some
lead in to find out what happened in June 1988 to your brother, to your son.
So we thank you for having had the courage to have come forward here today and to have made the remarks you did about this Commission and its work.  Thank you very much indeed.

COMMISSIONER: We welcome you.  Thank you for coming in.  How do you pronounce your name please?

MS PEARCE: Aline.

COMMISSIONER: Aline Leanne.

MS PEARCE: That's correct.  Just Aline is fine.

COMMISSIONER: Yes.  And you have with you on the stage today?

MS PEARCE: Mrs Beth Coohal.  She's one of the missionaries from our church.

COMMISSIONER: I see.  We welcome you both today.  You've come to tell us about this incident which took place in Durban in October 1990 which resulted in the stabbing and death of your friend, Ryan Kruger, is that correct?

MS PEARCE: That is incorrect.  Ryan is not dead, but he is ... (intervention)

COMMISSIONER: Oh, sorry.  Sorry, the stabbing of Ryan Kruger.

MS PEARCE: And myself.

COMMISSIONER: And yourself.

MS PEARCE: That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Before you give that evidence could you stand please to take the oath?
ALINE LEANNE PEARCE

COMMISSIONER: Dr Mgojo will assist you with your evidence.

KHOZA MGOJO: Good morning.

WITNESS:   Morning.

KHOZA MGOJO: The old man is interviewing you.  You need to come close to this when you are speaking so that I can hear well.  Well, it's nice that you could come here, because I get worried when we have to be interviewing one group of the people when the other groups are not coming, so it encourages us when we see that some other groups too who have suffered have courage of coming to tell their stories, especially now that we have become a rainbow nation.  It really fulfils the dreams of this nation as far as the Truth Commission is concerned.  So I want to welcome you with all the excitement I have that you have come, and also that you have been accompanied by somebody a little bit older than you.  Maybe I need add in just to have a background about your own family.

WITNESS:   Certainly.  Well, I have a brother and a sister.  I have a brother that lives in the Eastern Cape with a family, and at home I stay with my mum and my dad, both working.  My sister works for an insurance company, and so do I.  That's about it.

KHOZA MGOJO: Okay.  Can you give me any background about - okay, before I go there, are you still in school?

WITNESS:   No, I am not.  I am studying and I am working.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where are you studying?

WITNESS:   I am studying at Technikon South Africa, and I am ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: Technikon?

WITNESS:   Ja, Technikon South Africa, and I am working for Auto & General.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  Can you just give me a little bit of background about Ryan?

WITNESS:   Ryan Kruger?

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes.

WITNESS:   Well, Ryan was a friend of mine which I knew before the incident occurred.  He was at the brother school to the school that I went to.  He was basically in the same sort of social group that I was in.  Well, a very happy guy, well known amongst the friends, popular.  Since the incident unfortunately he is not what he used to be.  He's a lot more insecure, and I just feel that he suffers - he has suffered a lot more than what I have.

KHOZA MGOJO: How old is Ryan?

WITNESS:   Ryan, at the moment he must be about 22.

KHOZA MGOJO: 22.

WITNESS:   Or 23 at the moment.

KHOZA MGOJO: Does he have any parents?

WITNESS:   He does.  He has a mother and father who are separated.  The last I heard of Ryan he was living with his mother.

KHOZA MGOJO: Living with his mother.  Okay, you have come to the Truth Commission to tell them about one of the nasty, unacceptable incidents which happened in October 1990.  That incident was well publicised also in the press because of the grim picture it gave to the country, and I believe you have come to say something about it.

WITNESS:   Certainly.

KHOZA MGOJO: Can you just tell us what happened on October 1990?

WITNESS:   Well, it was during October holidays.  At the time I was 15 years old and I was in standard seven, and Ryan and I were walking to the beach together.  We were walking - we just crossed over the intersection of - Brickhill - I think it's Brickhill Road and Point Road, where the intersection meets.  We were walking towards the beachfront.  While we were walking, chatting and carrying on, and as we walked past a curio shop ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: What time was it?

WITNESS:   It was quarter past nine in the morning.

KHOZA MGOJO: Quarter past nine in the morning.