Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-04-20

MR NOTUNUNU: Thank you Honourable Chair, it definitely does because the ANC leadership, higher up had referred to these chaps as government agents and he says they wanted to put the record straight, but they were perceived to be government agents, by the ANC, right up at the top.
	Now, the applicants here Honourable Chair, were in the military side, they were in the military side, they were not taking, they were not in the leadership, high up, they took this decision on their own, like Mr Matshaya was the Commander of the MK in this region.
	The Askaris or the people that had defected, it was common cause that they were in fact the enemy targets, I am saying all these things Honourable Chair, Honourable members of the Panel, to show that their act was in fact committed with a political objective.
	They were pushing home, they were pushing home the views and the objective etc, of the African National Congress, an organisation of which they were its military wing, Umkonto We Sizwe, which was tasked with the duty of liberating the people of South Africa, militarily.
	That was one of the strategies used by the ANC to liberate the South African people.  Honourable Chair, with respect, we submit that there is no doubt that they had in mind that political objective.
	Coming now to the question of full disclosure.  I submit Honourable Chair, with respect, that we had in fact made a full disclosure about what happened.  I liked when Matshaya was giving evidence before this Honourable Chair and this Honourable members of the Panel, and questions were asked from him, he explained everything.  He even explained how they had surveiled, the surveillance, the cover up car etc, the going there, the actual shooting.  To us, Honourable Chair, with respect, that was in fact full disclosure.  There is no way one can say that we had not in fact disclosed the whole information in so far as that what happened.
	Mr Dyasophu, he had himself justified their actions, by saying look, you were right in doing that, but there was something he had mentioned like they were not doing this, they had been sent, or somebody else was behind this.  Well, somebody was behind that, was the programme, the person who was behind that, was in fact the declared policy of the African National Congress. 
	Any person who defects from the military, you don't resign in the military, Matshaya had said that, you don't resign.  If you are an MK member and then you leave, then you leave, you go to the very place which, you go to the very place of the enemy, that is South Africa.
	Then how would people then perceive you to be, so all and all Honourable Chair and all the members of the Panel, we submit with respect that we have in fact made our case and we submit sir, with respect, that we fall in line with this Honourable Chair and Honourable Panel, granting the application as we have moved it.
	I don't know if there is another thing, any other thing Honourable Chair and Honourable Members would like me to clarify further or to deal with in particular.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got anything to argue?

MR MAPOMA: Mr Chairman, I don't have much to argue sir.  It is my view Chairperson that on the face of it, the applicants seemed to have complied with the requirements of the Act, thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We are going to take time to consider this application.
	I don't foresee a long period, but we still need a period to consider it and to discuss it and we will as soon as we are in a position to publicise the judgement, we will do so.
	We intend to adjourn now till tomorrow morning, nine o'clock sharp.  If there are members of the Correctional Services Department present, I wish to point out that if tomorrow there is an applicant that needs to be brought to this hearing from the prisons, that person should be here at no later than half past eight.
	We adjourn till tomorrow nine o'clock.
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