Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-04

CHAIRPERSON: Welcome Magau.  Just relax. I will hand you over to Wynand.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: (sworn states)

THOMAS MANTHATA: Magau, can you tell us what happened to you the day you were abducted, the kind of torture, assault that you were subjected to please.  Over to you.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: Mr Chair, I remember very well on the 12th June 1986 I was at home.  There came a certain man by the name of Petrus Mahlangu.  In fact it is a business person.  He said to us, we were two, that it is getting to Pretoria so therefore has suspected a lot of cars and his suspicions was Mbokoto.  He told us that he resides at Tweefontein Erf.  He gave us his kombi to go and see whether it is true what has said.  Fortunately enough we met with a lot of cars.  If my memory still serves me well I think we were about to eight.  Therefore we met with those cars  at Tweefontein E.   Don't remember what I have said, I said on the 12th June 1986 and therefore those (indistinct) stopped us and then the questions they asked us they said they wanted the comrades who burnt down their shops.  We said we don't know nothing about that because we said we want to negotiate with them.  They failed.  They caught us, particularly some of us escaped but unfortunately enough to me they caught me and then they asked me about the leaders.  I responded to them that I don't know nothing
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about the leaders and then they said they are abducting me, they are going with me, I am going to show them the leaders and they after that I must bring back their shops, everything.  And then they started to beat me like a wild animal, busy beating me and then in turn they were, what can I say, they were holding all types of weapons that even others maybe never been into existence in this world, held by the Mbokoto.  Mbokoto took a litre, they gave me, I drank it.  They said to me I must drink that particular litre of petrol, they want to set me alight or to burn me down.  I said what have I done.  They said you know.  There were many, even at that time I don't know if it was the Mbokoto Youth League or was Mbokoto what, something.  Don't know what was their strategy.  They beat me, I fell down.  There came two bakkies, there were some tyres.  They poured petrol and then at that time I was already laying down bleeding.  My question I said are you really killing me.  They said yes boy we kill you today because we caught you.  Therefore a certain man, I can't remember him very clearly facially, he was holding a beitel.  He chopped me here, he chopped me here,  he broke my right leg and then one of them took out his firearm and he pointed at me.  Somebody stopped him, said no don't kill him we want to burn him.  It was a surprise to me because I didn't know what I had done because I said it is the wrong idea that you want I must adopt it because I am not following your procedure.  That is just before I am youth, then you get at me that maybe I have done one, two, three and that is an implication.  Therefore I think it was past nine to ten that time, I was busy lying down, people were going up and down screaming and then two cars came and then they said to me we are coming back to
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pick you up.  We were two.  I was with my colleague, that is Sam something Matimunya.  Stays at Vlaklaagte number 1.  And therefore even himself was already assaulted, tortured, done everything the way Mbokoto was brutal minded against to the members of our society.  Then I said to him let us escape because on Mbokoto's return we are going to be abducted or captured or kidnapped.  Then we started crawling because we could not walk on our own.  We were assaulted, we were injured, we went to another.  So that everyone should understand what I am presenting here.  We entered into one  yard.  When we arrived there we were badly injured.  They put us under dirty clothes.  Mbokoto was busy.  When they came back they asked where are these boys.  At that time we were hiding.  We were crying, we were assaulted, blood was all over.  We stayed there until a kombi came there collecting people who were injured and people who were standing outside they said some of the boys are in this yard and they came there, they picked us up like a small child.  We were put inside that kombi.  I don't remember the colour of the kombi, we were taken to Kalafong Hospital in Pretoria.  My leg was broken, I was waiting to be plastered, to be stitched.  I can't remember the days but I think three, four, five days.  Members of the committee came there to see us in hospital.  They wanted to see us when we came out of the hospital.  They were worried about our safety.  We asked them what was happening here that we were assaulted like this.  That is the time when we were recovering from the injuries.  We were unconscious when we came there.  They said to us Mbokoto assaulted us. They said Majozi was there.  Piet Ntuli was there.   They called all their names because Mbokoto was everywhere.  I can't furnish their names because
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I was not a member of Mbokoto.

CHAIRPERSON: May you tell us the way you were assaulted then thereafter let's stop there.  We should not entertain the part of saying what people told you.   When you arrived at the hospital people came to take you out of the hospital and took you to a place of safety.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: I don't know, Mr Chairman.  Sorry, is it a question or is it a follow statement?

CHAIRPERSON: I am trying to show you that we have ended up where you were safe, you were out of the hands of Mbokoto.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Then that is the end because that is the issue we were interested in because in the hands of Mbokoto what did they do with you.   So give us an opportunity to ask questions.  You were speaking about Petrus Mahlangu who lent you a van.  Did I hear you well?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: He didn't lend us a van, he gave us a kombi.

CHAIRPERSON: What did he want you to do with the kombi?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: He told us that he is going to Pretoria therefore he is leaving the car with us. Then he suspected that a group of cars were responsible for burning his shop and then he suspected that those are Mbokotos.  Then he told us about his appointment because he was a business person.  Maybe it was a business commitment.

CHAIRPERSON: He left you so that you should take care of his shop.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you meet Mbokoto or where did you meet Mbokoto, where you negotiated with them, because you said you wanted to negotiate with Mbokoto.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: We met these people at Tweefontein E.  They were
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travelling with their cars.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you move from where this man has met you to the place where you me these...

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: Yes, this guy gave us his car at the GG, section GG where we were saying.  Then we moved to where we met Mbokoto.

CHAIRPERSON: When you met Mbokoto were you trying to negotiate with them or did you meet them by accident?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: We met them accidentally, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: That is where they started to abduct you and made you drink petrol.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: Yes, that is true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Ntuli, when these events took place that you are describing, you were 22 years old.  21, 22 years old.

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: I think it is 22.

RUSSELL ALLY: And were you at school at the time?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: You were not.  What were you doing at the time?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: No, I was just unemployed.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you consider yourself a comrade?

RICHARD MAGAU NTULI: Pardon?

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you see yourself as part of the comrades.  Did you consider yourself a comrade?