Human Rights Violation Hearings — Worcester — 1996-06-25

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Is it the first time you are talking about it here today?

MR ZWENI: Yes, it is the first time I've never spoken about it to anyone as I told it today.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Is there any desire that you have, something that you would like to say to the community or something that should be done in order to reconcile yourself with the community, something that would create a real reconciliation with the people that you live with?  Is there any way that we could help to put things right between you and the people who treated you badly in your house?

MR ZWENI: I don't know how that could be put right because today I have no problem actually, I mean every day as I speak to them and we chat together.  That enmity is finished, there is no more enmity between us.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So there is co-operation between you even though that pain is still with you?

MR ZWENI: Yes, there is co-operation and reconciliation between us.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: When you sit and think about all these things, I'm trying to understand, are you truly reconciled to what has happened or is there any other way that you can think of that you can bring about this reconciliation between you and those people who at that point were called comrades and who called others informers and left houses empty without fathers, without parents?  Is there some way you can thing of?

MR ZWENI: I still have a very bad feeling towards the people who actually did this thing.   I had a very bad feeling about them, I thought I was going to take revenge because we were also going to die if we didn't escape what was going on because there were many insults and things that we received after my father's funeral.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Are these the things that your mother has mentioned, like putting hardboard on the windows?

MR ZWENI: There were times that there were people who wanted to come through the windows while my mother was at work.  My sister had a little baby so I  had a great fear that people would come inside and take us.  I was wondering, not knowing what they were looking for because my father had died so we didn't know what they were looking for.  I wanted to leave Ashton then because I had no friends and I was thinking that I was an informer as well.  I thank God that I'm still alive.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you very much.

ADV POTGIETER: ... this is really if you can.  We've heard a lot of evidence today about a group of people who were named Amasolomzi in the township of Zolani.  Was your father ever involved in that group?

MRS ZWENI: My husband was a Councillor during that time.

ADV POTGIETER: What was the relationship between the community Councillors and the people in Zolani in April of 1986?

MRS ZWENI: They would say that the Councillors were not wanted at that time, they were being killed, they were not wanted and they were told that they should leave their office there and then.  They were told to leave office immediately, that's why the Councillors were killed, they were not wanted.  The first Councillors were not in fact killed, they were elected.

ADV POTGIETER: Were the Councillors seen as part of the Amasolomzi?

MRS ZWENI: The Zolomzi's were a separate group, the Councillors were quite separate and distinct from them.  I don't know if I'm becoming confused but as I understand it the two groups were quite separate.  There was a lot of trouble in the township between them.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you want to add something Mr Zweni?

MR ZWENI: I can't remember some of the things as I'm forgetting.  I don't if there is anything that you are going to ask from me.  In the beginning in Ashton there were Councillors who were wanted by the people of Ashton and there was no killing and no deaths amongst those first Councillors.  That was the time that the Councillors were actually ruling.  There was one of the Mayor's who was in fact involved in the killing of my father who changed from being a Mayor to being involved in the struggle in Ashton.  As the time went on and the community was involved in the struggle, this Mayor was involved as well in those community struggles.

ADV POTGIETER: The names that we've heard in the course of evidence today from people who were testifying about the situation in Zolani that conflict between what was referred to as the Amasolomzi and Vigilantes and members of the community, those names that were mentioned, Klaas, there were a number of names, you were present when that evidence was led, do you know anyone of those people?

MR ZWENI: As I said, I came today to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and I wanted to speak about the death of my father.  Those people, my father is no longer with us.  I thought there was someone who would come forward and testify saying I was one of the vigilantes and gave witness to the death of my father including those people who helped to kill my father.  I thought they would come forward and I'm so disappointed that no-one has come forward.

ADV POTGIETER: I'm just going back in an attempt to try and clarify, to get an idea as to why this possibly could have happened or what the motive could have been.  Some names were mentioned today of people who were clearly identified as part of the Amasolomzi, various names were mentioned today, do you know whether your father had any relationship with any of those people who were named here today?

MR ZWENI: As I've said from the beginning, as from 1985 I was till at school where it was the beginning of the uprisings.  These people came from work and they wanted to prevent the boycott that was happening.  They came from work straight to school.  According to their minds they thought that they were there to protect the people and I thought my father was affected by this because he was one of the people who was trying to organise peace in the township and in schools.

ADV POTGIETER: Just one last issue which could be of some assistance.  You testified that amongst other things there was a reference book, an old passbook found close to your father, who did that book belong to, whose book was that?

MR ZWENI: This passbook that we are talking about was a blank passbook.  I think the culprits or the murderers put it underneath my father because maybe they were trying to camouflage the information as there was also a big knife under his body.

ADV POTGIETER: As a family you never found out whose passbook that was?

MR ZWENI: We couldn't know whose passbook it was because policemen from Ashton were investigating the whole case and they couldn't tell us about the proceedings of the case.  We only heard one thing and that was that those who killed my father but how it went, we don't know.  As they were sentenced we never knew what procedures were taken and we didn't know why they were sentenced.  At the time they were sentenced to serve the community by the Cape Town Supreme Court we were not informed.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.  Mr Zweni, Mrs Zweni thank you for coming, thank you for sharing your story with us.  It is as I've said earlier as important as any of the other stories that we've heard earlier in the day and we thank you for your patience.  It is an unfortunate fact of our history that we come from a system which has turned communities against each other, neighbours fighting one another and by sharing your painful experience and your loss with us, again it can only contribute towards a better future for all of us and we are indebted to you, thank you very much for coming and to the sister who has accompanied you as well, thank you very much.