Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

DJ MKHIZE: Chairperson, it is difficult for me to say anything to the community of Esikhawini.  The good thing though is that the community of Esikhawini knows what was going on in this area.  And although other things were done covertly, the community know about them but they just couldn't talk about them at the time because of the situation.
	I indicated or spoke yesterday and tried to convey how committed I am to reconciliation with the members or next of kin of the people that I killed, and also with the community that I traumatised.
	I would like to say this before I go any further: that it should be well known that what is being alleged now, that I have joined the ANC is not true.  They should rather say that now I can see clearly.  They shouldn't say that I have joined the ANC.  Or maybe that what I am saying today is because I have joined the ANC or want to join the ANC.
	I and the other people that are here today, we know it very well that we have killed ANC members and we know how painful that is to the ANC.  We know that there are people who were hurt by what we did to their family members.  Therefore we think that what we are doing here, will enable them to forgive us at some point.
	Our main objective is to let them know what happened to their family members and for them to forgive us, and for us to reconcile.
	Finally I would like to say that mistakes such as these should not happen again in the future.  Our present government should not find itself in the same situation.  And the youth should also not fall into the same trap of being manipulated like myself and be used and exploited by people in positions of authority in the community.  This will help the youth not to fall into such a trap.  It will also help people to forgive us.
	I realize that if I say that I am sorry, or if I say that forgive me, it would be insufficient.  I am as good as having said nothing because that will not bring these people back.  I mentioned yesterday that there are orphans who grow without their fathers, because we are responsible for those people's death.  This is something we'll carry with us to the grave.
	I mentioned yesterday that my apology will not help the families of people like the Mkwana as a family.  It will not help them financially; it will not help them in their socio-economic situation.  We are very hurt and deeply sorry about this.
	We are very committed to seeing justice done.  We are also committed to see that reconciliation takes place.  If it the duty of this Commission to effect reconciliation, we request that the Commission assist us in reconciling with the family members in a proper manner.
	We request that the Commission tries means of contacting the members of the families so that we can speak with them.  We request that if this is possible, the Commission should assist us in doing so.
	It could happen that maybe we have forgotten some things or maybe others we have expressed not in a correct manner, but what we have explained here is what we remember to the best of our ability.  We request the Commission to assist us in achieving reconciliation because I think one of the main objectives of this Commission is reconciliation.
	Thank you.

MR WILLS: Mr Mkhize finally, is it not so that since your arrest and since you realized the horror of your ways and the incorrectness of your action that you've attempted to assist the authorities as far as possible in getting to the bottom of a lot of the issues you were involved in?  To that extent you've assisted the Goldstone Commission; you spent weeks with the Special Investigation Task Unit; you've appeared before the TRC's Human Rights Committee in order to assist with information in regard to the issues that they are working on.  Is that correct?

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is the truth.  As you mentioned all this for fora I have involved myself in them.  Since my sentencing I was given a chance to mitigate the sentence.  That is when I started to speak the truth as I knew it regarding the crimes that I was being sentenced for.
	Thereafter I went with the Investigation Task Unit headed by Col Dobson.  I walked with him for quite a long time so that these issues could be investigated and cleared.  They have a full report about all these incidents that I have mentioned in these proceedings.
	I also from August 4 last year I appeared before a hearing at the Durban Christian Centre before the Violation of Human Rights Committee of the TRC.  We requested to appear before this committee and explain all these issues with the intention of reconciliation as I am here before this forum today.
	Even at prison I am in a committee together with Romeo Mbambo.  We represent IFP prisoners in reconciliation with ANC prisoners.  If I can just mention this: there are a lot of people who are in prison who are responsible for such actions as similar to ours.  But organisations today are not interested in those people.  They are speaking about peace processes, but are not concerned about the foot soldiers who carried out these activities.  They are involved at the top level in reconciliation.  They speak about this in the media but they don't say anything about families of the victims and about the perpetrators themselves.
	We need counselling because this affects you mentally, psychologically.  Nobody has come forth to suggest how we can get this counselling, how the element of criminality can be rooted out; how we can become human again.  But instead they are speaking of peace packages that have nothing to do with us; the people who carried out these activities.  So there are a lot of prisoners who were involved in such activities.
	We have committed ourselves to affect reconciliation with ANC prisoners with whom we had been fighting in the community.  We are trying to affect reconciliation between the foot soldiers so that we are not left behind.
	Because if this happens, when we are released or if we are released and we are still people who perceive ourselves as enemies, therefore it is useless for politicians to reconcile whereas foot soldiers are still in a war situation.
	These foot soldiers all need counselling.  They also need traditional rights.  The foot soldiers should also be able to reconcile, so we have created this committee of reconciliation with the ANC.
	We have contacted Mr Hlengwam, an IFP leader and informed him of this procedure, of this process.  We plan to call the media so that we can make statements to the media.  And the ANC prisoners will do the same.
	The ANC has planned to call Mr Willison Ncono to inform him of this process.  He has been to the prison quite a few times to speak to ANC prisoners.  Mr Hlangwa also visited us in prison with regards to this process.  Mr Dingele, another IFP leader has also visited us twice regarding this process of reconciliation with ANC prisoners.
	Although we had not reached a situation where we could call youth leaders as well, because we intend calling the youth president of the IFP and one of the ANC to address IFP and ANC prisoners alike.  And we also want to send them to the youth of the two organisations to affect reconciliation and to affect an awareness campaign.  That is the kind of committee we are involved in at Westville Prison.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee, that concludes the evidence in chief.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wills.  Just for the record: Mr Stewart who has been representing some of the applicants has excused himself for today and Mr Mogade who has been present throughout the hearing and who does have the right of representation is standing in for Mr Stewart.  Mr Mogade, would you please just put yourself on record?