Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

CHAIRPERSON: Professor Simangele Magwaza will be leading you through as you tell your story.  I give him to you now.

PROF MAGWAZA: We welcome you, Baba Nkate, and also we thank you very much for having been so patient and waited for so long to tell us about our story.  It is a special story.  Each and every story here is special to us.  Before you start I would like to refer to your statement which says that you live in No 73 at Masilo, Theunissen.  You were born in 1943 and that here you are going to make a statement about Dibuka anti-Comrades who abducted and tortured Comrades, assaulted and stabbed you as well as burned your car.  Before we get into this event, can you please tell us just more about your family?

WITNESS:   I have four children.  The elder one has 30 years, the other one has 27 years, the other one has 25 years, the last-born has 22 years.

PROF MAGWAZA: Do you have a wife?

WITNESS:   Yes, I have a wife.  My wife is 50 years old.  She's not working.

PROF MAGWAZA: Are you working?

WITNESS:   I'm not working.  I left  work in 1988.

PROF MAGWAZA: What has made it difficult for you to find a job?

WITNESS:   I left work in 1988.  The reason the name I was called with which is "Kaffir".  Then I saw it's better to leave before I fight with the person.  As from 1988 I made the decision that I would work with my hands and God has given me a mind.  I continued that, to work with my hands to be a mechanic until this day.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your political affiliation.  You, according to your statement, you belong to a party which is called SANCOR.  Can you tell us more?  It's not a party - a organisation called SANCOR.  Can you tell us more about that organisation?

WITNESS:   This organisation called SANCOR it ... (inaudible) ... the community that every complaint is taking to them and they are the people who talk with the authorities, white authorities so that everything should be smooth.

PROF MAGWAZA: Next can you tell me about what was happening at that time when your Comrades were abducted, tortured and when you were also stabbed?  What was the situation?

WITNESS:   The first thing, I was elected by the community on the 6th of January 1990 to be their representative.  I went like that in January, February and March and on the 10th of March at about quarter past eight then Mangnani Masodi(?) came to me.  Then he said Tabang Sigwedi has been abducted.  Then I asked him who abducted him.  Then he said to me it's Banasi anti-Comrades.  Then I said, "Where are they from?"  Then he said, "Uncle, it doesn't help to talk.  It's better to come and see.  You are the leader in the community, yes?"  Then he said, "Come and see."  Then I said it's okay.  Then I put on my clothes.   /Then

PROF MAGWAZA: Then I went into my car.  We were both of us in the car.  Then I said to him, "Let us start at Ramalali's place."  We entered Ramalali's house and Ramalali's wife said, "Ramalali has left.  He has fled the area because Moda's Comrades were here with a gun in his hand.  So Ramalali had fled."  Then I went to Seuntjie.  Then he said Seuntjie's also not there.  Then I said, "Why do you flee, because you are all men?"  When I was facing the car Ramalali came.  Then I said, "I came to you".  Then he wanted to tell me what was said ... (inaudible) ... then I said, "it doesn't help to tell me.  The best thing is to get into the car and leave."  Then I said, "Where is Seuntjie?"  Then he told me that he doesn't know where Seuntjie.  When were at the corner in Maputle's direction, whom we were with in the SANCOR committee, Seuntjie came and he was whistling.  Then he arrived at us and then he got into the car.  Then he asked, "Where are we going?"  Then I said, "We go to Maputle."  We call him Ramalata.  Then we went to Oupa Maputle's house.  We explained to Oupa Maputle what was happening.  My name on the ID is Pule then my nickname is Habanyani.  Then he said to me, "Habi, wait a little bit.  We have to talk with this person tomorrow morning."  Then I said, "Our negotiation with this person will not help because what I've seen now, the situation is tense."

PROF MAGWAZA: (Inaudible) .. for a moment.  We have lots of names here.  If you could explain who those people are?  Just to clarify before you get on.  Mangcani, Tabani, Ramalela, Seuntjie, Maputle, were they all Comrades, the people you have mentioned?

WITNESS:   All of these people  who are the same organisation with me, we're all ANC members.

PROF MAGWAZA: And who are the people you wanted to speak to?  You said you had to speak to these people.  Who are these people?

WITNESS:   What we arrived at Maputle, Maputle said to us that they have a negotiation.  He has arranged for a meeting with the business people to meet with Mr Mwilwa so that they will be able to hear what is the problem so that ... (intervention)

PROF MAGWAZA: Who is this chap Mwilwa?

WITNESS:   Patrick Mwilwa is the person who owned the supermarket and he owned taxis again.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay, you can carry on.  Was he an anti-Comrade - Mwilwa, was ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes, he was against the Comrades.

PROF MAGWAZA: Fine, okay.