Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-23

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Charles Ndaba left the country round about 1982 to join Umkhonto weSizwe.  He underwent extensive military training.  After that training and before the training he was in the military camps in Angola, military camps of the ANC.  He served in those structures.  He was then moved to the neighbouring country, Mozambique and Swaziland and he functioned in Swaziland when conditions were extremely tense and dangerous.  The Umkomati Accord had been signed and as is now known it was preceded by a secret accord between Swaziland and Pretoria, which gave a free hand to the South African Security Forces to operate in Swaziland.  Numerous cadres had been bombed, had been shot. one of those included the one-time secretary of the Revolutionary Council, Cassius Maake.  I had operated in Swaziland myself, clandestinely, at one stage continuously for 6 months in 1982, so conditions were extremely dangerous.  You were in constant danger of being ambushed or kidnapped but Charles was working in a structure which was directly charged with prosecuting the military struggle in Natal.  He rose to be Commander of the Natal Machinery in 1988 and because of conditions in Swaziland where people used to get arrested and be deported, he was subsequently deported in 1988 to Zambia.  It is true that at that time there was some concern about the reliability of some of the members of the ANC structures and of Umkhonto weSizwe operating in Swaziland, so any withdrawals would go through a further screening in Zambia and his name came forward in that context.  But Mr Chairperson, ...(intervention).

MS POSWA: Sorry, Mr Maharaj, can I just interject?  Would you say then that Mr Ndaba's deportation from Swaziland was, would it have been self-inflicted as had been suggested by Mr Botha?  That Mr Botha led evidence to the effect that Mr Ndaba had been advised to get himself moved into the mainstream into Zambia.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Well I would be very surprised if Pretoria was treating its agents by giving them instructions to get themselves out of Swaziland and shifted to Zambia and leave it to them to their own resources to achieve that shift, particularly where the person had just been made Commander of the machinery.  The deportation of Charles took place in the context of a number of arrests that were ongoing and as each person was arrested, Swaziland authorities would arrange to deport the person.  As an ANC member in this particular period, the deportation could only be to Zambia, Tanzania or Angola.  Mozambique was excluded.  But I have a report here, Chairperson, from within the Security Branch, dated 31-08-1988.  It says there, it is a routine Pretoria  Security monitoring and it says there under Clause 2 (c), 2 9(4) that Z C Ndaba, MK Charles, has been deported to Lusaka.  Its in the context of other deportations and other people leaving Swaziland.  It has been passed on within the Security Branch for the attention of Maj Taylor, it is also countersigned by Capt Botha and there are various other signatures and I have copies of that available for the Committee.  I would also like to draw your attention that during that period of 1988, Charles Ndaba was the subject of intense interest by the South African Security Police.  Efforts had been made to kill him in the Piet Retief group.  Then there were, I'll just get my dates right, the Piet Retief ambush took place on the 8th of June, then on Sunday the 12th of June,

MS POSWA: Which year?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: 1988, two operations were carried out by Pretoria's agents in Swaziland, one of them was an ambush of a vehicle and Pretoria were looking for Charles Ndaba.  That information is confirmed in de Kock's evidence given at the TRC Amnesty Committee about three weeks ago.  There is also another report from within the Security Branch and this is relevant to the numbering system and it is relevant to Capt Botha.  The first is a report submitted within the Security Branch structures by Sgt Wasserman and Capt H J P Botha and he's described there as the "Verslag skrywer", the report writer.  It is dated the 14th of February 1988.  It is based on an agent's report who had gone to Swaziland and the agent's number is given as PN664 and in that report the agent says that he met a person called MK Zandile in Swaziland, paragraph 28.  MK Zandile, Charles Zandile is then identified by means of a photograph as Charles Ndaba and the reference for Charles Zakhele Ndaba, otherwise known as MK Zandile is given as S4/52573.  That I have reason to believe is a simple file reference of people they are monitoring, not a reference to an agent because the agents are PN.  What is interesting about that report Chairperson is that after that lengthy report, at its end, is a distribution list of information but before the distribution list on paragraph 41, all names that this agent had visited in Swaziland, are summarised.  It says then
"The peoples recognised are Buthelezi Gatsha"
and then it has an "Afdeling" reference number for him with a PNV number, then Headquarters reference number.  Then it has two names "Jabo and Lucky".  Against them the Security Branch say, "Of no security importance".  That is the way they covered a potential or active agent.  Then they came to Charles Ndaba.  They give his full details, they have no PN reference for him, and they give that file number.  They then have later down the name Mr Zondi.  Against him they say "Not of security importance".  That is the way they protected their agents, so that the rest of the structure would not take interest.  At the end of that report, there is the distribution of this report within the Security Branch.  14 divisions were circulated with that report.  I also would like to put that report in.
	Then there is a report dated 14th...(intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Before we go on anymore, can we have the reports that have been put in so far and give them numbers and what have you?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: That's the first one.  That's the second one.

MR VISSER: The first report was the one dated 31st August.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: The first one is dated 31st August.

CHAIRPERSON: The one in front of us.

MR VISSER: Unless you want to do it chronologically Mr Chairman, it might make more sense in doing it like that.

CHAIRPERSON: I think rather the way the witness is dealing with it.  Can we have the first report?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Yes, Sir.  In a moment, they all are stuck together as a file.  They are stapled together as a set.

CHAIRPERSON: Well the bundle will be J, the first one is

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: 14th of February.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is the 14th of February?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Right on the top.

CHAIRPERSON: And the next one is 14th of September.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: The next one is 14th of September.

CHAIRPERSON: That will be J2.  13th of June, J3.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: 13th of July, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh sorry, July, yes.

MR VISSER: Is 14th of September J2, Chairperson?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: That's right.

CHAIRPERSON: 14th of September is J2.  13th of July is J3.

MR VISSER: 13th of July.  Mr Chairman, you're loosing us.  Did you say 13th of July?  I've got one saying 18th of July and 19th of July, is that the next one?

MR LAX: Yes, it's got all three dates on.

MR VISSER: Okay, but that's J3.

CHAIRPERSON: That's the three we've got.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Then Chairperson, after that there should be one that's very faint.  It has a sort of telex tele-type print and has a faint, right at the top, second line, 16th of July 1987.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  That'll be J4.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: J4.  And then the next one in a similar type of typeface is 31(8) 1988.

CHAIRPERSON: J5.