Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much, Joyce and Letitia, for coming to tell this sad story, this similar story again about the police and the Three Million Gang.  It is the same pattern which is obtaining.  We feel the pain with you.  You are still very young to lose a husband, and your child is still very young to have no father.  Maybe too your child would need to get a kind of attention, because he must be - is it a she or he by the way?

WITNESS:   It's a girl.

UNKNOWN: She must be very much affected by this.  It may show later, even if it does not show now, so she would also need to get nearer to the psychologists and other people who can help her.  We have noted all your requests.  We shall put here that maybe the families of breadwinners who died must be helped.  We don't promise, but we shall take that request to the Government.  And we have also noted your request that monuments as memories should be built for those who died in the communities.  We have also noted that.

COMMISSIONER: (Incomplete) ... to tell your story here which led to the destruction of your shop and property, and the disappearance of your brother after going into exile.  And before you tell that story may you take an oath that what you are going to say here is the truth, and the only truth, God be your helper.

MOHLAHLUOA MOTETE: (Sworn, States)

COMMISSIONER: The person who is going to lead you is Professor Simangile Magwaza.

PROF MAGWAZA: Good afternoon, Mr Motete.  Thank you very much for being patient.  You are almost the last person today, but it doesn't mean that you are not going to be - we are going to pay less attention to your story.  It is still going to be quite interesting to us.  According to your statement you live at - you didn't give us information as to where do you live.  Where do you live?

WITNESS:   I am staying at Senegal, though before I was staying at Kroonstad.

PROF MAGWAZA: When were you born?

WITNESS:   I was born in 1951, June, on the 23rd.

PROF MAGWAZA: Could you tell us something about your family very briefly, whether you are married or whether you have kids?

WITNESS:   I am married, but I am not blessed with children.

PROF MAGWAZA: Is your wife here?

WITNESS:   No, she is not here.

PROF MAGWAZA: Is she working?

WITNESS:   She is still looking for work.

PROF MAGWAZA: Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working.

PROF MAGWAZA: You also talked about the fact that you are here today to tell us the story about the destruction of your shop and your property, as well as the disappearance of your brother after going into exile?  That's right?

WITNESS:  That's true.

PROF MAGWAZA: What was the name of your brother?

WITNESS:   It was Spontjie Mokolwani Motete.

PROF MAGWAZA: Could you tell us briefly what was happening at this time?  Just tell us about what was happening around the event, around the attack on your property and on your shop.  What was happening at that time?

WITNESS:   It started in 1988 when people were harassed, were evicted from their houses because of rent.  Then we met to help people so that we should look for lawyers to interdict the council.  We were calling ourselves MCC.  The trouble started in 1990 when people were killed in Kroonstad.  I had a shop at that time.

PROF MAGWAZA: You said what was the name of the organisation to protect the residents?  What was the name of that organisation?

WITNESS:   That was Mokeng Crisis Committee.

PROF MAGWAZA: Did you belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:  At that time I was not a member of any political party, but I was a member of this MCC, where we were volunteering to stop the harassment from the council.

PROF MAGWAZA: Are you a member of a political party now?

WITNESS:   At this moment I am not even involved in politics.

PROF MAGWAZA: According to your statement on the 28th of April you met Comrade George Daniels, who warned you of a possible attack by a group of ANC members know as AF.  Why were the ANC members attacking you?

WITNESS:   There was confusion.  It seems in the early 80s ANC was split into two groups.  There was this group which was calling itself AF.  At that time this AF split didn't agree with the MCC.  All the objectives and all the decisions of the MCC were not taken lightly by the AF group.

PROF MAGWAZA: You report that your house was subsequently petrol-bombed and your car set alight, but then it was the three guys from AF who came and helped you, yet they were the people who were supposed to have destroyed your property.  You said you were actually helped by this AF group.

WITNESS:  These AF people seemed to come to look as to whether it is true that my property is destroyed.

PROF MAGWAZA: Who destroyed your property?

WITNESS:   That evening the people who were responsible for the destruction of my property was Vusi Mapeluwe and Lidlinyane, Semi Lidlinyane.

PROF MAGWAZA: Were they members of the AF?

WITNESS:   These were not members of AF, they were members of the South African Police

PROF MAGWAZA: Here you talk about the third force that were responsible for destroying your house.  Are you referring to these three?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am talking about these three people.

PROF MAGWAZA: (Inaudible) ... as members of the third force?

WITNESS:  I thought so because they appear in many cases of destruction which were done during that time.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  You go on to say after this you went to Zimbabwe, and whilst you were away your shop was looted and burnt, and that together with your police you discovered some stolen goods with the perpetrators.  Initially you mentioned that police - when your property was destroyed the first time the police did not help you, but the second time you actually went with the police to look for your goods.  Are you saying the police were much more co-operative during the second time when your shop was looted?

WITNESS:   It was not the police which I was talking about.  The police who helped me to look for the property were police who were passing on the street when I told them that I found where my property is.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  And who were the perpetrators, who had stolen your property?

WITNESS:   The people who had stolen my property were my neighbours.

PROF MAGWAZA: Would you be prepared to give us their names if you feel comfortable?

WITNESS:   Yes, their names are - there is a document which I've submitted about the case number to the Commission.

PROF MAGWAZA: So there was a case, there was a court case regarding this, your neighbours who stole your property.

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a court case about this issue, but on the day of the court proceedings I was not allowed to get inside the court.  My wife was allowed to go in, because they said I was not allowed to do so because the person who has made the statement is my wife, though we got the property with the police.  They went only for a short moment, then they said there is no enough evidence.  Then I made some attempts to go to the station commander, but all these were in vain because I didn't get enough co-operation.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your neighbours, did they belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   They were just, you know, tsotsis, scoundrels.

PROF MAGWAZA: (Inaudible) ... Letsabo?

WITNESS:   He is a policeman.

PROF MAGWAZA: He told you that the Comrades don't work with police, that you should go to the Comrades for help.  So was it a policeman who was more sympathetic towards the Comrades?

WITNESS:   This policeman was - when I was trying to force that this case should go forth because I was not satisfied about the procedure in court.  Then I met this Letsabo.  Then he said that - he was saying to me these words that there's nothing they can do for me because I came to a place where I will not get help, because I am a Comrade and therefore I should get help from the Comrades, because here I am not going to get any help.