Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1999-05-27

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: The role that I played was that of driver. I was driving the security vehicle as Bongani had indicated that my role would be to drive the security van and Comrade Thembi Ngubeni would drive the vehicle that we had been using. We indeed left on that morning of September 1991. We had spent the night together. We woke up and we went to the place where this vehicle would be coming from and we stopped this vehicle, or should I say, we met this vehicle and followed it right up to the T-junction. Myself and Comrade Clive and Freddie were sitting at the back. Comrade Bongani and Comrade Trevor Masilo were sitting in front. 	Indeed, we went to the place, we saw this Fidelity Guard van coming out and it came to a halt at the robots, at the red robots. This Fidelity Guard van was in front of us on the left hand side. You see we were travelling on a two-way traffic street approaching a T-junction and this vehicle was supposed to make a left-hand turn and we were travelling on the right hand side. And we got off, I think there could have been three to four vehicles that were dividing us, the vehicle with money and ours. What I was supposed to do there was that I was supposed to drive that vehicle. I must indicate that it was not our intention to go and kill. Our intention was to get some money that would help the organisation.
	And I don't know what happened when we got there, I don't  know what happened to the security guards because I just heard a gun shot and when I came closer to the vehicle the driver was leaving the vehicle, running away, crossing the street. That is when I took the driver's seat, closed the door and the comrades got inside the van and we drove away.
	We went to a place between Spruitview and Vosloorus where there is a dumping site and when we got to the dumping site, we removed the containers with money and we put these in the vehicle that was being driven by Thembi Ngubeni. And we removed these trunks, transferred to another van. And Comrade Freddie removed these trunks, transferred them to our van and the van was wiped and we left to a place where we offloaded these trunks, counted the money and we counted it to R150 000 and we handed this to Comrade Bongani. That's the role that I played.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How were you arrested, and after how long were you arrested after this incident?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: I don't know how I was arrested, but yes, I was arrested. I cannot even say how they knew where I was hiding. The operation was in September, but I was arrested in January 1992. I was arrested in Newcastle at my sister's place.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all, Chairperson. Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Mbandazayo. Mr Steenkamp, any questions?

ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Panel?

ADV GCABASHE: Yes, thank you, Chair. Mr Simelane, there's one thing I missed. You said after the driver of the Fidelity Guard van came out of the car, he was bleeding. You then took over the driving and the comrades got into the van. Which van?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: I am referring to the security guard van.

ADV GCABASHE: Now, the passenger security guard was still inside the van at that point. Yes?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes.

ADV GCABASHE: Two questions. Did you see how he got shot?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: No, I did not witness that. I just heard a gun shot. As to how it happened, I don't know. I just heard a sound of gun fire.

ADV GCABASHE: The sound of an AK47 rifle?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes, that was the sound of an AK47.

ADV GCABASHE: Do you know how many shots were fired in that sound that you heard? How many would that have been?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: The sound only went off once.

ADV GCABASHE: Once. So, as far as you can make out only one shot was fired.

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes.

ADV GCABASHE: Then, four of you were able to sit in the front cabin of the van. Just help me with that? As you drove off, you were driving? Who was next to you?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes, we managed to sit in the cabin, the four of us. I was sitting next to the security.

ADV GCABASHE: And then the other two comrades were sitting next to him and at the door.

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes, yes, that was the seating arrangement.

ADV GCABASHE: Was that security guard dead?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: No, I would not say exactly that he was dead, because I had not seen that he had been shot. I thought he had been kept hostage or he is still under shock. I only said to my comrades that they should sit in such a way that he too can be able to sit well. And that's when he fell over.

ADV GCABASHE: He fell over as your comrades tried to seat themselves comfortably in the van.

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: That is when I said to my comrades that they should sit such that he can sit comfortably. Because they were trying to push him so that he can sit well.

ADV GCABASHE: Just describe this van to us, there're different types of vans that Fidelity Guards use. Was this the Hi-Ace type of van, was it? Just, just help us with that?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: It was a one-tonner, Toyota van. I'm not sure whether it was a Toyota or Datsun. But it was a one-tonner, a long base with a canopy. It was white in colour with red writing.

ADV GCABASHE: When you say it was a Fidelity Guards van, you mean it was a Fidelity Guards van or are you simply describing a security guard van? Or security company van rather?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: It was a company van, yes, it was not a Fidelity Guard van. It has become common for us to use these words thus.

ADV GCABASHE: Had Bongani given you any indication at all as to how much money he was expecting to net from this operation?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: No, he did not. No, he did not. He did not tell us what amount of money he was expecting from the operation. We only made out how much we had when we counted the money to R150 000. And when we went there we did not even know how much to expect.

ADV GCABASHE: And did he give any indication at all as to how many other operations like this you would be expected to carry out?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: No, he did not.

ADV GCABASHE: The guard was dumped, the one who was in the van, he was just left at that dump inside the van, or you threw his body out of the van. What did you do?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: I think the body was removed from the van. I think, see this happened in 1991. I think the body was removed from the van. So, you see, we were doing everything hastily.

ADV GCABASHE: But this was at the dump?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes, at the dump.

ADV GCABASHE: And the dump is adjacent to Vosloorus?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: I would not say it is adjacent to Vosloorus. It is actually between Spruitview and Vosloorus. So I would not say whether it is adjacent to Spruitview, but it was between  these two places.

ADV GCABASHE: And he was dead, certainly at that point? At the dump you knew that he was dead?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: Yes. Because he was not speaking, was not responding.

ADV GCABASHE: Are there any other Apla operations, apart from this one, and apart from patrolling, that you've been involved in?

EDWIN TOSIMELA SIMELANE: We were not, I was not necessarily involved in Apla operations, but task force operations such as defending the community as a task force. They were not necessarily Apla operations. Our commander, yes, was a member of Apla, that is the late Comrade Bongani. We don't know as to from what level of Apla, echelons received his instructions, but we were basically defending the community. For example, I as a taxi driver at the time, you see, we were often under attack from  the hostel people and the taxis, these were shocking things.