Special Hearings — Legal Hearings — 1997-10-27

MR HENDRIKSE: Yes that is your duty, you either have to declare it, the procedure actually is to declare the person a hostile witness sort of thing because he's deviating from his statement. It's a whole list of questions you have to then put to him. You have to inform the magistrate what you are doing and then go about and do it that way. That was the preferred way. I simply got up and said: "Excuse me," and I walked across to the table. And that wasn't supposed to be, especially in the light of the fact that it is a public violence sort of case. They were very touching about public violence cases.

MR VALLY: Could you briefly tell us about the accused in that matter? Who they were, how they were dressed and why they were in fact charged?

MR HENDRIKSE: Well the accused were five youths. The one accused was a girl and the police didn't even give her the opportunity of getting dressed properly. She appeared in court wearing her night clothes. The reason for the arrest was the fact that two or three of them had a stone residue, almost like when you touching a vibracrete wall. That was the only reason why they were picked up because they had this sort of slight markings on their hand. There's nothing to connect them to the actual stoning of the bus because the driver says as soon as he saw the trouble he hit the deck and he used his hand to accelerate the bus. So he couldn't see anything. And yet I am told to go and prosecute when there's no reasonable basis for doing that.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Hendrikse.

CHAIRPERSON: Questions?
?: Mr Hendrikse you know those courts that you refer to are ones that I practised in for many years. And you know it brings back a lot of memories. You know what I couldn't understand, look that was about the middle 80's when we had all those public violence cases in the Western Cape. And there were a number, to the best of my recollection there were a number of young black people who were prosecuting in those days in some of those courts, Athlone, Wynberg, in the suburbs. Not so much in Cape Town, in the city centre but, what was the situation were you as young people were prosecuting, prosecutors were you having difficulties, were you having conflicts, were you having some doubts about being part of the system and all those arguments that were going backwards and forwards in those years?

MR HENDRIKSE: Ja. Clearly there were a lot of doubts. As I indicated also you had a lot of these, a lot of my colleagues you had bursaries you know that you had to pay back to the state and if you leave the department of justice you're not going to get a work in a other department of a thing. And you had this sort of obligations in terms of your financial obligations and then there were some that had family obligations as well. And you know you try to make the system work for the better of the people that you are serving but then too many times you come against like a block wall and then you think that there's no justice. I mean in the one particular case; it wasn't my case but it was a white person that was found guilty in the Mitchell's Plain court and he was sentenced to a whipping but the magistrate, a white magistrate ordered the person must be transferred to Wynberg because we can't see the white bums.
 But that is the sort of thing that happens. You come up daily with this sort of conflict within yourself and that is why it was only after just about a year I decided that if this is the way things are going to happen. I thought I'm gonna be there to assist victims of crime and so forth. And you had all this nice quotes from the university about the sanctity of the law convicting the guilty and letting the innocent go. That meant nothing in practice and that really depresses one. And I was in the fortunate position that I could leave when I did leave.

PANEL: Thank you Mr Hendrikse. I personally witnessed some of the anguish that some of these young people went through when they were confronted with having to prosecute. Especially these public violence matters where these young school kids were throwing stones and that sort of sort of situation.

MR HENDRIKSE: That's right.

PANEL: Thank you.

MR HENDRIKSE: You had a situation of you're living in the area and then you're going to work and then in court you seeing these very people that you grew up with around you or colleagues that were at university with you and now you're sit on this side. That is a particular (...indistinct) Maybe we are a bit naive in thinking that we could help from (...indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hendrikse.

MR HENDRIKSE: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you've shared the same kind of experience that your colleagues in the KwaNdebele area has experienced as well. And I think it's very useful for the commission to hear about the dilemmas that black professionals faced when they worked in the judicial system.

MR HENDRIKSE: No I just want to thank the commission and the panel for opportunity as well. Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Could we now ask the long- suffering department of justice officials to come forward please.
 I'm being asked to allow the smokers to have a smoke break so just a five minutes body break please.
 Thank you. May we ask people to take their seats again please? We'd like to welcome the director general of the department of justice and his colleagues. And before I ask you to take the oath I'm going to give you permission to take your jackets off.
 Thank you. May I ask you to stand so I can ask Mr Malan to ask you to take the oath please?

UNKNOWN: : Mr may we just have your full name and the names of your colleagues please? Would you just press the red button there to get, that's it.
Jasper Jeugens Neidt: Jakobus Herslui Braille: Jakob Daniel de Bruin: Elias Rasavarte

UNKNOWN: : (reads oath)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming. I'm sorry that you've had to wait such a long time today. I understand that you will just highlight areas in your submission and that we will then be asking you questions. Could I ask you to go off and start please?