Amnesty Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1999-05-10

CHAIRPERSON: Just one question, Mr Dlova, you say that you got your orders in Bulawayo to get back into South Africa and then attack the enemy as set out above in your affidavit.  So, all of you who infiltrated, were you all part of one unit and how were you going to work?  Would you pick up orders from anyone else in South Africa once you were there or was it in the discretion of that unit itself to identify targets and attack them and act as either an attacking unit or a repossession unit or whatever?  Could you just give us an idea.

L N DLOVA: First of all, we were one unit and Sipho was appointed as a commander and I was commissar.  Tsepho and Medisi were going to help us with logistic stuff.  That was our unit and what was happening was - as you can see from these weapons that are written here, our duty was to attack the enemy and since there are also explosives here and we were going to attack the buildings that were used by the enemy.  And one other thing is that we were trained to do all this, we were trained to use explosives.
   Our unit had nobody inside the country to direct us but Tsepho was going to be in charge because he knew the direction and the accommodation and we were supposed to identify the target as we were trained and as we knew what was needed from us before we attacked the target.  I don't know whether I have answered your question.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you have, thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, I will then move briefly to paragraph 13.
	Mr Dlova, can you for - if the Committee have no questions regarding other weapons, can you explain to the Committee what was detonating cords and electric capsules are, what were you going to use them for?

L N DLOVA: Detonating cords and electric capsules were going to be used to combine dynamite and TNT for explosives.  We were using them as charges of explosives when we targeted a place.  To target, we were going to place them, the charges.  For example, the electric capsule is like an electric cord, you would use it in connecting other stuff and when there is electricity in the building you can connect this cord, these detonating cords and then it will explode when it combines with electricity and the building would explode and you would burn it.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, if there are no further questions I'm moving to paragraph 14.  In paragraph 14, can you tell the Committee about Chand, Medisi and Junior.  Where are they and what are they doing now presently, and what were their positions within APLA?  -Chand, Medisi and Junior.

L N DLOVA: Chand was the person who was bringing people from Botswana inside this country.  His car was used and his house was used.  So he was using transport and in accommodation.  Junior and Medisi and Castro, they were responsible for Botswana in two ways.  First of all they were responsible for their recruits from Botswana who were going to join APLA.  Secondly, they were responsible for people who were from outside the country who were coming inside the country.  They were responsible for telling those people what time to come in and thirdly, they were responsible for reconnoitring  the place to make sure that the road was safe for people to go.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee, where are they, Chand, Medisi and Junior.

L N DLOVA: Chand died in 1990, if I am not mistaken.  His house in Botswana there explosives there and Medisi's working for South African Defence Force.  He is one of the Commanders there.  And Junior is a Lieutenant Colonel in South African National Defence Force.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, I will move to paragraph 16, 17 and I will combine them.
	Can you, Mr Dlova, just give us, give the Committee a brief picture about what actually happened at the roadblock starting from where you boarded a taxi to Johannesburg until you were at the roadblock and what happened after the roadblock, in detail, so that you give the Committee the full picture.  Since all of us were not there, you are the only person who ...(indistinct)
TAPE FAULTY - POWER FAILURE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, you were about to deal with the actual incident itself that took place in Lichtenburg, as set out in paragraph 16 and 17 of the affidavit.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Chairperson.  If I may repeat the question in case it was not recorded because of the power failure.
	Mr Dlova, if you can take the Committee through what happened when you arrived at Mmabatho up until the after incident.  Take the Committee to details, give the Committee a picture of what happened as all of us were not there.  You are the only one who knows what actually happened.

L N DLOVA: On this particular day, it was on a Sunday, a Sunday morning when we arrived in Mmabatho.  We went next to Mmabatho stadium.  Sipho and Medisi left me, and Tsepho and I and they went looking for a taxi.  They found a taxi and they took us to the taxi rank.  When we arrived at the taxi rank, we got another taxi that was going to Jo'burg.  We then boarded that taxi and Sipho gave us instructions that we were going to get into this taxi.  It was going to take us to Johannesburg.
   In this taxi, we pretended as not knowing each another.  Sipho was sitting in the front seat, Medisi was sitting at the next seat and Tsepho in the middle seat of the taxi.  I was sitting at the back seat in a corner, on the right corner.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you give us an approximation of the number of people in the taxi?

L N DLOVA: Together with us, the taxi was a fifteen-seater, so we were fifteen.  The taxi left for Jo'burg from Mmabatho.  I am not sure about the kilometres, how many kilometres from Mmabatho to where the roadblock was.  When we stopped at the roadblock one policeman came, he spoke with the driver.  After that, we were told to get out of the taxi and each person was to stand next to his bag.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Dlova, if I may interrupt.  These weapons that you brought in, that you have set out in your affidavit, the weapons and the other equipment, were each of you carrying some in your bags or was it all in one bag with only one person carrying all those weapons?

L N DLOVA: If we can look at this affidavit, each of us had his own bag with weapons.
	When we got out of the taxi, they told us to stand next to our bags.  Comrade Sipho was the one who first got out of the taxi and he was looking on the other side when I was getting out of the taxi.  The police were on his bag.  And he had grenades with him.  When I was going towards the place that I was supposed to stand in, he then used the term "green" and then he took out a grenade.  After taking that grenade out, he threw it and then the shooting started.  There were police next to me.  They were standing at the back of the Casspir.  Then they told the taxi to go on the side so it was next to the Casspir.  I then threw one grenade.  What happened is, the police were just shooting randomly because they did not know what was going on.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you throw your grenade, in which direction, or at any specific target?

L N DLOVA: I threw it to the police, those that were standing behind the Casspir.  Because we were standing in a moon shape, I was the last person, so the police were not far from where I was standing, because after Sipho threw his grenade, they all looked at him.  As they were busy shooting at Sipho's side I took out my grenade and there was that confusion and I found a chance to run away.  That's what happened and then I met Tsepho when I was running away.  I found him in a church building.  I am not sure if it was a church building or what.  When I got to Tsepho, he told me that my right eye was bleeding, it was injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Dlova, so this took place in a town, it wasn't in the countryside? - seeing that there was a church close by.