Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   That's correct.

UNKNOWN: How would then something which an ordinary man in the street would not connect it to the Security Police intimidate someone?

WITNESS:   Ja, well I think eventually the car story at the border, which implicated the ANC, would have proved that point.

WILSON J: But how would that intimdate lawyers from acting for the ANC if they thought Mxenge had been murdered by some robbers or by the ANC itself?

WITNESS:   Ja.  Actually I should say, Mr Chairman, that this application was prepared on very short notice at a very late stage, and I think at the time there could be facts in there that did not - that does not ... (intervention)

WILSON J: That are not consistent.

WITNESS:   Not consistent with the eventual planning of the murder.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: But I thought yesterday you had an explanation.  You said that it might - people might think

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: /that there

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: that there was an argument possibly between him and some

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: cadres over some money.

WITNESS:   That's correct.  That was the report that was handed out by General Coetzee in the end.

MR DE JAGER: Mr Coetzee, only for the record, you say you had only a short period in order to complete your application, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR DE JAGER: But you insisted that this application should be on the roll.  You actually criticised the Committee in public for not hearing your application.

MR JANSEN: No, with respect, Mr Chairman, that's a factually incorrect statement.  As far as I have it there was criticism by Mr Coetzee against the fact that his application was sent back, the original one, but there was not - there was not a demand from Mr Coetzee that it be on the roll at this stage.  In fact that - as far as I am aware the request was from the TRC's point that it come on the roll as quick as possible.  If I could just straighten that.
MR MSHE(?: ):   I don't think you are entirely correct, Mr Jansen.  Mr Coetzee mentioned through the media that he had submitted his application a long time ago, and he had not as yet heard from the Amnesty Committee.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Let us not engage in some hair-splitting exercise.  The fact is that there was a time when Mr Coetzee got the impression that his application was not enjoying adequate attention.

WITNESS:   Can I just - sorry.

MR JANSEN: Yes, that is accepted, Mr Chairman.  I think maybe what the misunderstanding is about, when Mr Coetzee talks about the application that was drafted under pressure of time, that that refers to the present
	/application
application serving before you, and not the original one that was sent by him.  I think maybe that should then just be cleared up.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that.  I understand that there are inconsistencies, or there may be inconsistencies in the argument advanced in support of your application.

WITNESS:   Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything you would like to add to what you have said?

WITNESS:   No, I would just like as far as the application just to say that I have originally submitted it in March on my own, without the help of a lawyer, for myself, Mr Tshikalanga, and Mr Almond Nofomela, and I took it by hand down to Dr Alex Borain, and only after five and a half months, I think, when Advocate Tim McNally decided to arrest me, then I lashed out at why there was any delay in hearing my application.  But otherwise if it comes to the end I would just again, as I say, as pathetic as it might sound, and for what it's worth to - especially to the Mxenge family, the children at first, the mother and the brothers, my sincere - and I can assure you coming from my heart - apology for the grief and sorrow I caused your family, and I know there's absolutely nothing that I can do but just ask you for - apologise to you, and I think it's unfair of me to expect from you to forgive me at all for that, because if I must put me in your situation I don't know how I will ever be able to forgive someone like Dirk Coetzee if you did something - what I did to your family, if you did that to my kids or one of my beloved ones.  But I hope, sincerely hope, that with the years that pass that the wounds might heal.  I will have to live with my conscience for the rest of my life,

CHAIRPERSON: /and with

CHAIRPERSON: and with the fact that I killed innocent people, with hindsight completely innocent, a ridiculous act, but I don't think anything sane can come out of an unsane system like apartheid.  And I really hope that your wounds will in some way be able to heal over the years.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  If there are no further questions of this witness do we proceed with the next applicant, Mr Mshe?

MR MSHE: That is so, Mr Chairman.  The next applicant will be, I want to believe, David Tshikalanga.

MR MARAIS: No, Mr Chairman, the next applicant will be Almond Nofomela.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Mr Coetzee, will you stand down so that the next witness can be heard.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yesterday I announced that I did not countenance, and will not countenance, the use of flashlights in these proceedings, so please desist from using flashlights, otherwise I will now allow any photographs or any photographers to be present.  And I do not like the idea that when a witness is giving evidence that he should be distracted by the cameras focusing on him and flashlights flashing at him.

MR MSHE: The witness is going to testify in Xhosa I am told.  I am told the witness is going to testify in Xhosa.
/MR MARAIS
MR MARAIS CALLS

ALMOND BUTANA NOFOMELA: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)
Mr Nofomela, how old are you?  (Pause)  Mr Chairman, I see the witness is just being instructed on the use of the headphones.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Mr Nofomela, the questions I ask in English will be translated to you into Xhosa, and you can then supply your answers in Xhosa as well.

WITNESS:   I hear you, Sir.

MR MARAIS: Mr Nofomela, how old are you?

WITNESS:   I am 38 years of age.

MR MARAIS: When were you born?

WITNESS:   I was born in 1958.

MR MARAIS: And what was the composition of your family?  How many children were there?

WITNESS:   There is 11 of us.

MR MARAIS: Where did you fit into this family?

WITNESS:   I am the first-born.

MR MARAIS: Where did you go to school?

WITNESS:   I first studied in Burgersdorp and then Garankuwa.

MR MARAIS: And how far did you advance with full-time schooling?

WITNESS:   I finished standard eight full-time, and then I corresponded my matric.

MR MARAIS: Where were you when you did matric by correspondence course?

WITNESS:   I did not complete my matric, I only have four matric subjects.

MR MARAIS: At what stage did you do that?

WITNESS:   Two years.  My fourth subject I completed in 1993.

MR MARAIS: Was your family religious?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were religious.

MR MARAIS: And did you attend church regularly?

WITNESS:   I went

MR MARAIS: /to church

MR MARAIS: to church frequently whilst I was still living with my family.

MR MARAIS: Was your family politically aware, and was there political discussion in your household?

WITNESS:   We never had political discussions at home.

MR MARAIS: What were your personal political affiliation when you left school?

WITNESS:   I was not politically orientated at all, I was just a sportsman.

MR MARAIS: At present you are serving a life sentence, is that correct?

WITNESS:   It is so, Sir.

MR MARAIS: For what crime is that?

WITNESS:   I killed a white man from a farm in Brits.

MR MARAIS: And how long have you been in prison now?

WITNESS:   Nine years.  This is going to be the 10th year.

MR MARAIS: When did you join the police?

WITNESS:   In 1979.

MR MARAIS: What training did you undergo after joining the police force?