Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-13

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: We used to ask ourselves this question, but we didn't know that the attack would be scaled in the manner it did.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Because the applicants said, when they entered Boipatong on that specific night they came up Lekwa Street, or when they got close to the intersection of Mosheshwe and Lekwa Street, the comrades as they describe them, fired shots to them.  Do you know anything about that?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Mr Strydom, would you repeat the question?

MR STRYDOM: The applicants have already testified and they said that when they got to the corner of Lekwa and Mosheshwe Streets, shots were fired towards them from the direction of the shops down Lekwa Street.  Do you have any knowledge of that?  Did you hear shots or something like that?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I did hear shots even if they were shot by people from outside, but I heard the gunshots from Lekwa Street, when they came along Mosheshwe.  I was inside the house by then.

MR STRYDOM: So do you maintain that no-one of the guards who used to guard Boipatong had weapons with them, is that what you're saying or not? - or only you didn't have weapons.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: In my group no-on had a weapon.

MR STRYDOM: When the police told you to disperse, why didn't you regroup, why did you just go to bed?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I said, when they said we should go and sleep I went to my place to sleep.

MR STRYDOM: I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: You don't have a mike do you?  Do you need a mike?

MR LOWIES: Unfortunately I do.
	Mr Rahantlhane, I want to put certain aspects which are actually common knowledge to you and I would like your comments on that.  I want to put it to you first, which may not be common knowledge, that I sometimes listen to the Sotho radio and the first thing that I'd like to put to you is, is it not so that before the news starts there are six beeps, toot, toot, toot, before it starts?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Do you mean the sound you have just made?

MR LOWIES: No, there's a beep.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Even if you can listen to Sesotho Stereo there is no sound like that.

MR LOWIES: The reason why I'm putting this to you is, in 1992 the radio station, Sesotho Stereo did not exist.  There was a Sotho radio but it was not Sesotho Stereo, not so?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: That's correct.

MR LOWIES: And at that stage it was not an independent station like it is now, it was run by the SABC, not so?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I don't want to talk about Lesotho Stereo, I just listen to the news.

MR LOWIES: And I want to put it to you further that at 10 o'clock at night there was no Sotho news on the Sotho radio in 1992.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Well I don't know, I hear that for the first time from you.

MR LOWIES: Now but you're the one who told us that there was news on that day, and I say I dispute it, not in 1992, the news was at 8 o'clock.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: There was news at 10 o'clock.

MR LOWIES: And I want to suggest the following to you; if it is true that you heard the news on that night, it must have been the 8 o'clock news.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I insist that I listened to 10 o'clock news, not 8 o'clock news.

MR LOWIES: How did you know that it was the 10 o'clock news?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Before the news broadcast they mention the time.

MR LOWIES: And is that the reason why you say it was 10 o'clock?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes, I think that's the reason.

MR LOWIES: How do you know that on that day they mentioned the time, was it because they always do it or because you can specifically remember that specific day?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Every time before the news broadcast they state the time.  If it is 6 o'clock news they will state that and they will also state who is going to read the news.

CHAIRPERSON: I think what Mr Lowies is asking you is, that is now on the 17th, did you actually hear the news-reader saying what the time was or are you just assuming that each time the news is read they will start by indicating what the time was?  Did you understand the question?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes, I do understand.  I have already explained that when I arrived at home it was around a quarter to, or ten to ten and at five to ten I was already in my house.

MR LOWIES: But Sir, do I understand you correctly, the reason why you're so sure about the time is because you listened to the radio, is that your version?

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) you say you arrived at home approximately a quarter to nine in the evening?  I beg your pardon, a quarter to ten.  This is after you had been told by the police to go and sleep?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Yes, thank you, Mr Lowies.

MR LOWIES: Thank you.  Mr Rahantlhane, did you look at your watch or are you relying on the radio, in order to make sure what the time was when you, the time that you are talking about in your evidence here?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I want to tell you this, if I knew what is going to happen that day I would have gone out.

MR LOWIES: No, but my question is not that.  My question is, do you relate the time to the radio or did you have a watch with you?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I heard the time from the radio.

MR LOWIES: You did not have a watch?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: No, I did not.

MR LOWIES: But when you arrived at five to ten there was no announcement as to what the time was, correct?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: When I arrived at home it was around a quarter to ten to ten to ten.

MR LOWIES: And that is an estimate, not something that you heard on the radio?  Let's just get this clear.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes, I did not hear that from the radio, just an estimation.

MR LOWIES: Did you actually fall asleep?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I went to bed.

MR LOWIES: Did you fall asleep?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: No, I did not.

MR LOWIES: Was your girlfriend already asleep?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes.

MR LOWIES: Now Sir, were you a member of the comrades?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I think anybody can be a comrade, you can also be a comrade.

MR LOWIES: Were you in 1992 a comrade?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I don't understand you, can you please explain what you are saying.

MR LOWIES: Do you know what a comrade is?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Well I don't know, that is why I'm asking you to explain to me what is a comrade.

MR LOWIES: So if you don't know, then can we take it that in '92 you were not a comrade?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I was just a sports person.

MR LOWIES: Do you want to tell us that where you're sitting here today, you do not know what the comrades were, who they were, what they did?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: 3 o'clock till 6 o'clock I'm at the sports ground for practice.

MR LOWIES: Did you follow my question?  Do you, here today, not know what a comrade is?  Did you understand the question?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I was never involved in politics and that is different from what I was involved in, that is sports.

CHAIRPERSON: What Mr Lowies is asking you is, as you are sitting there now, do you know what a comrade is?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I don't.

MR LOWIES: Have you ever heard of the word: "comrades"?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes, I did, normally we call each other comrades, in the township.

MR LOWIES: Now when you were doing patrols, would the people refer to you as the comrades?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: Yes, we used that name to call each other.

MR LOWIES: And did the people also refer to you, other people, as the comrades when you were doing your patrol?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: I can also call you comrade.

MR LOWIES: You can, but that's not the question.  The question is, did the people refer to you then as comrades?