Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

MR MOPEDI: The next applicant will be Monwabisi Mhambi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhambi, will you please stand and give your full names.

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mopedi?

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mhambi, you are the applicant in this matter and you were also a member of the Thokoza Self Defence Unit for Lusaka-A section, is that correct?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: ...(no English translation)

MR MOPEDI: Do you remember the year?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: If I'm not mistaken it was in 1993.

MR MOPEDI: Were you forced to join?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is not correct.

MR MOPEDI: What has actually prompted you to bring this application for amnesty?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: The reason why I made this application to the TRC is that when we were fighting here in Thokoza I was involved in certain things.

MR MOPEDI: Explain what are those things.

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I can explain it this way.  From 1993, if I'm not mistaken one when we were patrolling we were in Givani Street, the corner of Givani and Ngaki.  We were used to patrolling during those days we found that there was one man in the road and we thought that he was one of the people who were under the ISU or the IFP.
	To try and explain more, when we stopped these men, there were five of them and we did not trust these men because they were coming from the police car.  When they were coming towards us they put their hands in their jackets.  We were then forced to hurry because we didn't trust what was inside those jackets.  We were then forced to go and face them.  We were forced to shoot first before they could shoot at us.
	Fortunately or unfortunately the four of them managed to run away.  This one man when he was trying to run away he ran towards Lusaka section where we found him in a shack.  If I'm not mistaken it was number 1776 in the circle.	 I think it's the third circle from Ngaki to Mkwaie.  
	When he was trying to lock himself inside the shack unfortunately we were already inside.  When he was trying to get out, the firearm was in my hand at that time, when he was trying to get out through the window he did not have a chance.  I hit him with the first bullet.  He tried to run away towards the gate.  I think from the gate to where he fell, I think it's about three or four metres.  He then fell and then other bullets followed from myself, Monwabisi.
	The other thing, the people who were with me I do remember some of them but I don't remember others, it was myself, Thulani Mshlango.  If I'm not mistaken, Thlonono and Nkosana was staying in Mabuya but he passed away now.  But because there were many of us I can't remember all of us.  Unfortunately I don't remember the dates.  I don't remember the dates of the incidents or the time but what I can say is it was in the morning.
	Secondly, I'm also applying - if I'm not mistaken, Simphiwe raised this issue about the Dube incident.  I was also involved in that incident, when we were attacking there in the morning.  I am not going to repeat what he has already said. 
	And other matters like the incident in Jazavu, in Mshayazafe, I think Mshayazafe is facing the dry cleaner of Osizweni then but it's not here now.  When we were going to that area, when we were about to reach Mshayazafe, before we got there there was a house that we used to use as our shooting range.  I think before the violence started the owner of the house purchased some bricks.  We would take those bricks and pack from the corner of the house to the corner of the shack and then we would open a space so that we can put in a firearm that we were using at the time.  Those are the things I do remember now.  That is all for now.

MR MOPEDI: Okay, let us start with the first incident that you have referred us to, that is the people that you met in the street and where four of them managed to run away and you followed the one who ran to Lusaka section.  Do you know the name of that person?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: If I remember well, if I'm not mistaken his name was Leviza but I don't know his surname.

MR MOPEDI: Was this person known to you before the incident itself?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Please repeat that.

MR MOPEDI: I say, this person, the one that you followed to Lusaka section, was he known to you before the incident of that particular day?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: ...(no English translation)

MR MOPEDI: My question is, the person that you chased - I'll repeat it, the person that you chased to Lusaka section on that day, the one who tried to lock himself in a shack, was he known to you prior to the incident?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I unfortunately Sir, I didn't know him but I used to see him.

MR MOPEDI: How did you manage to get his name or to know his name?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: What used to happen was that we would make investigations about a certain person but unfortunately concerning this person it was found that one of the people who were living in the same street as myself knew him.  And in certain issues that used to happen outside some of the people used to see him.  When I'm saying things that used to happen outside, I'm referring to when there was a function for the IFP.  He would be there and he would take part to show that he was a member of the IFP.

MR MOPEDI: Did you have this information before the incident itself or you managed to accumulate this information after the incident itself?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: As I've already said, when we were patrolling we came across five men and this shows that I didn't go to him because I knew him or I did not know him but we wanted to know who were there and what was the connection between themselves and the ISU.

MR MOPEDI: Before you started to attack these people, have you verified first to make sure that they were indeed the members of Inkatha Freedom Party or Inkatha in short?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I would put it this way to explain.  What used to happen in Thokoza - to add more to what other people have already said, it was not necessary sometimes to get a letter to confirm that a certain person is a member of Inkatha Freedom Party.
	What would happen Sir, is this.  When we were using Khumalo Street - during the day of this incident we were in our bases and while we were still patrolling we would hear that there would be people who would be jumped off by the Stability Unit in the corner.  Fortunately concerning this one, his jacket, the jacket that he was wearing, in the left-hand side of his jacket he had something on his jacket showing that he was with a certain group because a certain group would wear particular clothes so that you could see each other or identify each other so that you cannot attack each other.  As the people were not trained we used to wear certain clothes to identify ourselves, prevent attacking ourselves.

MR MOPEDI: So if I understand you very well you say that you identified those people by the clothes they were wearing?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Yes, Sir.

MR MOPEDI: And have you established eventually whether they were members of IFP?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: When, after we attacked them?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That's correct.

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: And this person that you have told that you shot him, do you know whether he died or not or was only injured?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: He died.

MR MOPEDI: And the incident that occurred at Dube Street, the house, all what you say about the incident is that you are confirming what Simphiwe Ndlovu told this hearing?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Please repeat your question.

MR MOPEDI: I'm referring to the second incident, the incident at Dube, that is in Dube Street, the house where you shot people.  You don't have anything to add to that incident, you only confirm what Simphiwe Ndlovu, I mean Simphiwe Ndlovu's version?