Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-26

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Do you mean the action from the residents side or from Dolo's side?  I'll explain it in this way.  A sky element was used first from the house next door, I'm not sure as to whether it's the second house or the third house from the house attacked.  After the sky was eliminated then they started shooting towards our direction.  At the time we were following comrade Dolo and Roger because they were in front.  Up to the point where we caught up with them, at the time they were responding to the reaction, that is returning fire from the direction where the shots came from up to the point where we crossed the road, that is on the bridge.  That is where we started shooting towards the direction of the - the reaction towards the houses.  He shot and then he shot again with a rifle grenade and then it exploded.  It either exploded on the second house from the house which we attacked with a grenade, a rifle grenade hit there then the other rifle grenade which I launched it did not explode.  I understood that the police found that unexploded grenade.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, have you got any re-examination?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Chairperson.

ADV SANDI: Mr Kgotlhe, in your evidence you said there was another attack which occurred at Ficksburg and you referred to that as the first Ficksburg attack.  Is that the one where the old age home was attacked?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: That is correct.

ADV SANDI: Mr Mbandazayo, has this been set down for, is it one of the matters to be heard?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, it's going to follow after this one and the subject of this hearing.  I was just calling him just to confirm the part in the Dolo matter and we are through with it and then we handle it because he's with another applicant in it so I wanted this to be through so that he's with another applicant which is Kuluman in that one.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, yes we might have had crossed lines there because I would have preferred that he were to deal with all of the injuries that he's applying for, are you saying that in respect of that first Ficksburg attack this applicant was together with the remaining applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And that up to now he's only dealt with the Ficksburg attack which involved Mr Dolo?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think perhaps you should just proceed you know and complete his testimony, just to deal with all of the incidents and do the same with the remaining applicants so that by the time that we're finished with that applicant we would have heard all of the testimony in respect of all of the incidents that they're applying amnesty for.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson, it's just that Chairperson we had different affidavits in the bundle we don't have the one we are using now in the bundle, you only had one which relates to the old age home.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR MBANDAZAYO: In the bundle, you didn't have the one for this one, relating to the Dolo matter in regard to Kgotlhe.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: So that's the reason I decided I should start with this one and we are through then I was going to go to the second one, incident which also involved the second applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh I see, no, no then I probably misunderstood you.  I was under the impression that you were saying that you were going to let him stand down and then let him come and speak about that at some later stage in the proceedings.  No, but I'm with you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: No Chairperson, I was going to proceed to the second application Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Alright, why don't you do that?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.
	Chairperson, if I may proceed and read the affidavit of Mr Kgotlhe in regard to the second incident?
"I, the undersigned, Able Lerato Kgotlhe, do hereby make an oath and say that I'm the applicant in the above matter having submitted my application whilst being held at Grootvlei Maximum Prison, Bloemfontein, the facts to which I depose are true and correct and within my personal knowledge unless the context indicates otherwise.  I was born in 1971 at Hoopstad, Free State Province, grew up in Wesselsbron where I did my primary education up to Standard 6 in 1984.  In 1985 my family moved to Botshabelo near Thaba Nchu where I left school at Standard 8 due to financial problems.  I joined PAC through Azania in 1986.  In 1990 I left the country through Zimbabwe to Tanzania where I joined Apla and did my military training.  I came back from Tanzania at the end of 1990 and I was posted at the PAC headquarters under the command of comrade Inox Zulu and the late Jan Shoba.  Late 1991 I was deployed in the Free State Province, I was involved in about 7 operations and I have applied amnesty for all of them.  I confirm that I was involved in the Ficksburg Townhouse attack.  We were a unit of 5 operatives.  It was myself, Nduna, Kenny, Roger, Scorpion and Max.  I was ..."
Chairperson, just for the clarity of the Committee, Max is the second applicant, Luvuyo Kuluman, Kenneth Kuluman.
"I was the commander of the unit.  Our target was the old age home.  I was armed with 9 mm pistol and grenades.  Nduna armed with pistol and grenades and others armed with grenades and Molotovs.  It was our decision that if there is any ammunition, grenades and Molotovs left after the attack at the old age home we will use them to attack the town houses.  Apla regarded the Free State especially as a bastion of White inherent folkism.  It was one of the stronghold of the AWB which represented the White inherent folkism.  We travelled from Lesotho to Ficksburg on foot.  On our way to the old age home we met police vehicle patrol.  We retreated and myself and Max entered a yard of a certain townhouse.  Whilst in the yard with Max I shot the police vehicle and it sped off.  The other comrades were no longer around.  Myself and Max threw Molotovs in this house whose yard we were, we thereafter retreated and I threw a grenade in another house and it hit the window and fell on the parking area and destroyed the car which was parked there.  We then went back to Lesotho.  Apla's mode of thinking and indeed operation did not distinguish between soft and hard targets nor indeed between military and civilian targets.  When it comes to White South African society.  We were simply fighting against criminals who sustained the apartheid system.  Anybody who was playing part in moving apartheid forward and those who supported it were therefore criminals.  This was the mode of thinking in the Apla code during the struggle.  I respectfully submit that my application complies with the requirements of the Act and that I've made full and proper disclosure of my involvement in the Ficksburg Townhouse attack and accordingly humbly request that my application for amnesty be granted."
Thank you Chairperson.  
	Mr Kgotlhe, can you take the Committee through with your decision to attack the old age home.  Who took the decision and the planning and why was it the specifically the target, the old age home?