Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:   There was a case hearing that happened last year, but what was reported on the newspaper was that it would be held for three days, they'll be hearing for three days.  On the first day there were lots of good questions.  We began to hope that it's  moving towards a particular direction, but on the second day it was early in the morning it was over, the hearing was over.  Whereas it was written that this court hearing would be held for three days, but on the second day that they can't get any evidence as to who had killed him.

DR MAGWAZA: The last thing that I have said, we are feeling very touched by Professor's matter.  We would like to hear from you that since the whole family was harassed and suffered such great pain, and I do know that people in your area were very, very touched, so what is it that you would wish the Commission to do to assist you so that we do not forget Pro, that he was there and fighting for the struggle?

WITNESS:   I have an unhealed wound in my heart.  The first thing I would like to know what had he done, and to whom, for him to face such a brutal killing?  And they were not satisfied that they just killed him.  His body organs that disappeared, what I would like the Truth Commission, I would like them to assist them to give me back those remains so that I can take off the stone and put his remains there, and have those body organs buried together with his body.  I would like to know who are these people, and if they had been instructed they should also inform me why had they been instructed to do this, and what had he done to deserve that?

DR MAGWAZA: We hear that, Mama.  Thank you very much.

DR BORAINE: I'd like to address a couple of questions to Zanele, if I may please.  Zanele, you were the last member of your family to see your brother alive, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... travelling with him you were stopped by a car.  Can you recall what kind of car it was, the registration number?

WITNESS:   At that time that was driving I didn't see, but I only saw it when we arrived at the police station.  It was a Mazda 323, numberplate NN 4529.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... or any of your family or friends check as to who owned that car?

WITNESS:   No. I want to ask you just one or two other questions quite quickly, because I know this is not easy.  You mentioned that a Mr Moses Sithole, a friend of your brother's, actually found the burnt car, is that correct?  ---   Yes, it is the truth.

DR BORAINE: Do you know where Mr Sithole is now?

WITNESS:   I don't know where he stays, but I do regularly see him.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... find that out from you.

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR BORAINE: You also mentioned that there was a court case, and I just want to know did you ever attend an identity parade?

WITNESS:   There were six people, but the person I had seen was not among those I had to identify.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... that person you saw coming out of the Mazda car?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... be included in the parade?

WITNESS:   No.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... last question.  I am not sure if you can answer this, but any member of the family.  Did you ever receive a death certificate?

WITNESS:   (Incomplete - end of Side A, Tape) ... I didn't look at it.

DR BORAINE: When you talked with the police or anyone did they say he died from being burnt, or did he die from being shot, or did they say anything?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't explain anything.

MR LAX: On the evening when - sorry, I direct this question to Zanele please.  On the evening when you were at the police station, once you'd sought shelter there after being chased by this car, the three people who got out of that car, would you be able to identify them again?

WITNESS:   One of them is the one I said I know. I just want to ask you one question in relation to that.  Did those people who got out of that car, did they appear to be known to the police at that police station, or were they - did they appear to be strangers to those police?   ---   They were known.  They were also policemen.

MR LAX: Mama and your daughters, it's become very difficult how to say to a person they must accept the situation when you remember of such a brutal and painful thing that happened.  We've been given a task to assist our nation to heal the pains that all of us got as we are already free today.  We pray that God may in His grace give you strength to empathise with you and strengthen you so that we, as the Commission, we can try to assist you, so that your wish can be achieved.  Thank you very much.  We thank you Thabile and Zanele.

DR BORAINE: Mr Cele, first let me welcome you to the Commission hearings.  We thank you for coming.  You've had quite a long wait, and we're glad that we can see you now before the lunch break.  I understand that you come from Newcastle, so you've come quite a long way, and you've come not to talk about someone else's suffering or death, but your own experiences, and in a moment we are going to listen to the story that you have to tell the nation.  Before doing so, though, can I ask you please to stand for the taking of the oath.

MANDLA CELE: (Sworn, States)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Please be seated.  Mr Cele, my colleague, Mr Ntebeza, is going to guide you as you tell your story, but, as I have reminded others, it is your story and we need to hear from you.  Thank you.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible) ... these proceedings you put in proper perspective what they are all about, that these hearings are for victims, and for that very reason we have heard painful stories of killings.  The story you are going to hear now is the story of personal suffering by Mr Cele, and perhaps it is historic for that reason, and historic also for the reason that this is the first time that these hearings are held in this region.  And it is also historic, Sir, that on this very day in The Hague the whole world's attention is drawn to proceedings of another kind, where one Tusan Tadic, a Bosnian Serb, is facing the War Crimes Tribunal.  But then that's a tribunal of a different type.  But it's for the first time since the Nuremberg Trials that the world will be hearing evidence of war time atrocities against ordinary people.  But the one similarity between what is happening in that tribunal and your Commission is that both of The Hague's War Crimes Tribunal and your Commission, we are hearing heart-rending incidents and stories and accounts of man's inhumanity to man.  We are hearing heart-rending stories of arrests, tensions, tortures, murders, rape, and many, many more tales of pain and suffering.  The story of Mandla Cele, the young man who is now before you, is one other such story.  Mandla, we are now going to speak in Xhosa.  I hope you understand me.  I am going to ask you to tell us who you are.

WITNESS:   I am Mandla Cele.  I was born in Maphumulo area.  I only ended up to standard eight after I was expelled from school in 1976.  I went further on and I joined the union.  I worked at the union from 1979.  I worked with people such as Sipho Gcabashe, Magwaza Mapangane, people like Professor Sibankhulu.  And I moved from Durban, I went to Newcastle.  It was in 1982.  I was organising the workers.  I was teaching them about their rights.  That is where I met Professor Sibankhulu and we worked together.

MR NTEBEZA: Just excuse me.  Are you referring to the Professor Sibankhulu we have listened to his case now?