Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much, Chairperson.  Before I call the first witness of this fourth hearing in KwaZulu Natal I would like to say a very special word of welcome to Judge Hassan Mall, who is the Chairperson of the Amnesty Committee of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  We are delighted that he is able to join us today.  I would be very grateful if he would stand just for a moment so we could recognise him.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Some are still looking to see him.

MR LYSTER: Well, he's a very distinguished person, so they can't miss him.
  I call now the first witness, Mrs Emily Sikadi Magashule, and I would ask her please to come up to the witness stand.  Mrs Magashule, can I just ask you whether you can hear my voice in the earphones?

EMILY SIKADI MAGASHULE: Yes, I can hear them.

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much.  Then my word to you must be a very warm word of welcome on behalf of the Commission.  It's not a very easy thing to be sitting where you are sitting.  I am sure that you are feeling just a little nervous and uncomfortable, because you are the very first.  You can't watch and see what other people do, and where they stand, and where they sit, and you are a pioneer today, and that makes you very special.  And we hope that you will be relaxed and feel that you're amongst friends, and that you can at last tell your story, not only to the Commission, not only to this audience in Durban, but throughout the country.  We are very, very glad to see you today, and we wait to hear your story.  Before you do that I must ask you to please stand.

EMILY SIKADI MAGASHULE: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: Thank you, you may be seated.  Mrs Magashule, for everyone who comes before the Commission we ask one of our Commissioners or Committee Members to assist that person as they tell the story.  We want to underline, however, that it's your story, and only you can tell that story.  And today I am going to ask my colleague, Dr Khoza Mgojo, to assist you, and I am going to hand over to him now.  Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Good morning, Sir.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   I am fine, and how are you, Sir? Mrs Magashule, can you just help us a little.  We know that you've been deeply hurt, you want to come here and tell us everything.  I will ask you to start relating your story to us.  You can now start.  (Pause)  Let her remove her earphones so that she can tell us her story.   (Pause)   ---   The reason why I am here is the fact that I want to talk about my brother, who went to exile.  I went to see him in exile.  We went to search for him while he was in exile and we discovered that he was already buried.  We wanted to see the grave.  They took us to where he was buried, and I said to them, "Can I please get his body?  I don't know how did he come here."  They said to me, "If you want his body he has to be burnt first."  Well, we went back and I asked them to give me his clothes.  They gave me his clothes, but they were so shabby.  And then we went back home.  We only got the shabby ones.  We didn't even get his identity document.  What we only got was a letter.  He wrote a letter.  We came back home.  We don't have a proof that he is dead.  We don't have a proof that he is the right person that's been buried, because we don't have any proof.  We wanted his death certificate, we couldn't find any.  We couldn't find his belongings at all.  We went to Lusaka and they said to us, "You will get everything in Gauteng."  We were in Tanzania at that time.  We came back to Gauteng, and the people in Gauteng told us they don't have any material.  We're still going up and down searching for documents.  Can the Commission please find out is he the real person?  I want to be sure that he is really dead.  I am here for help.  I will rest if I only know that he is the person who has been buried there.  We don't have parents, we are just left as orphans, and we would like to make it a point to know that our brother has been buried.

KHOZA MGOJO: Emily, can I ask a very short question?  Before your brother disappeared was he involved in any organisation?

WITNESS:   He belonged to the ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO: When did he join this organisation?

WITNESS:   It was in 1984 when he started working.

KHOZA MGOJO: Before joining this organisation had he been to any other organisation?

WITNESS:   He used to sing for the Gospel Choir.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you report at the police station during his disappearance?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't report.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you report this to any person at the organisation?

WITNESS:   He disappeared in 1988.  That was after our mother's death.  He just disappeared, we didn't know his whereabouts.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you think there is any reason that led him to disappear?

WITNESS:   I only realised that he was in exile when I received a letter.  That's when I saw and realised that he is out of the country.

KHOZA MGOJO: Many times you go to the police and report if someone has been missing in the house.  Did you do this?

WITNESS:   We didn't report because the police were busy chasing the people during that time.  I only ended with the news that he was in Sebokeng, visiting my uncle.

KHOZA MGOJO: When you arrived in Tanzania you received a letter.  Do you know when was the letter written?

WITNESS:   It was written in May, but I can't remember the day.  The only thing that I received after the letter was a telegram.  It was in the same month, in May.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did he write this letter while he was still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, he wrote this letter while he was still alive, but I was surprised after two weeks to receive a letter that he is now dead.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said that you believe that he is dead, but you want to make sure whether it is the right person.  Is that all you want from Truth Commission?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's the only thing I would request from the Truth Commission.

KHOZA MGOJO: Any other questions?

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Magashule, I just want to ask a couple more questions to help the Commission in its work.  Firstly, when did your brother go into exile, do you know?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  I only received a letter and that's when I realised that he was in exile.

KHOZA MGOJO: And that letter you received in 1988 or 1989?

WITNESS:  It was in 1989.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  And how did you know that your brother had died?

WITNESS:   I received a telegram informing me that he is dead.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who sent you the telegram?

WITNESS:   It's Simangele.

KHOZA MGOJO: And does this person belong to any organisation?

WITNESS:   She was in the ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much.  Just a couple more questions.  You said that when you got to Tanzania they gave you a letter that Isaac, your brother, had written.  What did the letter say?  Did it say that he was not well, or had he had problems, or what did it say?

WITNESS:   Are you referring to the letter that he wrote?

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, you mentioned that when you got to Tanzania they gave you some clothes and a letter which was written by Isaac.

WITNESS:   The letter was about his complaints. What were his complaints?   ---   The only ones that I can remember is that they were eating rice with milk.

KHOZA MGOJO: So he complained about the food.  Can you tell us, did anyone ever tell you what was the cause of his death?  Did he have an accident, was he sick, or how did he die?

WITNESS:   The person who told me said he was sick.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you, and then just one last question.  You mentioned that you've been trying very hard to get either a death certificate or some evidence of your brother's death.  Have you spoken to anybody in South Africa about this?

WITNESS:   I have been talking to people.  Nobody offered assistance.

KHOZA MGOJO: Have you applied to the ANC offices, either where you live or in Gauteng?