Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-15

CHAIRPERSON: You are still under oath to speak the truth, do you understand?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes I understand.

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: (s.u.o.)

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairman, honourable members.  I have prepared affidavits and I have already made the original and copies available to members as well as the evidence leader and Mr van Rensburg on the other side.  In fact we are just waiting for the other applicants who have gone to sign the affidavits at the police station so that all the affidavits are in today.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got that general one you also had?

MR NDOU: Yes, yes.  What I intend to do, I wanted to read the affidavit into the record and then allow the applicant to confirm and then allow him to be cross-examined.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't need to read it into the record.

MR NDOU: I don't need to do that.

CHAIRPERSON: You can ask him - well let me - is that affidavit before you?

MR NDOU: Yes it is.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muhadi have - do you see that affidavit before you?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: At the end of that affidavit there are signatures.

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes it's true.

CHAIRPERSON: The first signature, do you know whose signature that is?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose signature is that?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: It's mine.

CHAIRPERSON: No Mr Ndou the other pages have not been initialled.

MR NDOU: I've sent people to have them typed now, they're just from the police station, I'm sure the police there didn't realise but we'll have them initialled.

CHAIRPERSON: What do we do now?  Well, Mr Ndou, I'm going to allow this in on a provisional basis.  Perhaps after lunch you can see to it that it's properly attested to and signed.  One would have expected you to attend the police station to see that that in fact was done.  But be that as it may, there's nothing we can do about it now, I would expect it to be done by after lunch.  In other words, we'll use lunch time to rectify these technical problems.

MR NDOU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muhadi, this affidavit is not properly attested to in terms of the requirements of the law but, I've explained to your attorney what to do about rectifying the situation, do you understand that?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, I understand.

CHAIRPERSON: In the meantime, we can proceed with your evidence.

MR NDOU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you read this affidavit?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you aware and do you understand the contents?  Has it been explained to you?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, I understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you confirm the contents of this affidavit?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, I confirm.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything that comes to mind at the present moment that you wish to add?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Up to now there's nothing.

CHAIRPERSON: You fully understand that you can be cross-examined on the contents of this affidavit?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, I agree.

CHAIRPERSON: Good.  Yes, carry on Mr Ndou, is there anything else?

MR NDOU: (cont)
	Thank you.  You remember yesterday, when we adjourned, I just asked you as to what action did you do at the deceased's house and you said that you threw stones at the deceased's (indistinct) wife was still outside.  And then, that later on you also entered the house and continued to throw stones at him.  And that in the process you also hit Rosinnah with a stone during the stone throwing, is that correct?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: (Microphone not picking up) he testify that the deceased directed a spear at the crowd, (indistinct).

MR NDOU: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: Did this witness not say that the deceased threw a spear at them?  Or was it a stone?

MR NDOU: (Indistinct) I cannot follow yesterday as to how far he had gone but remember him indicating as to what he did, that he entered the house, threw stones with the rest of the group and - did you do anything else?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: There's nothing else which I did except throwing stones.

MR NDOU: Now, I also see in paragraph 46 that you submit that you have made a full disclosure of the events as they unfolded.

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes.

MR NDOU: And you also indicate from paragraphs 47 to 50 that you humble yourself and generally apologise to the family of the deceased, (indistinct)?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, it's correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muhadi, you say that the deceased threw stones at the crown.

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he throw anything else?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: Yes.  A spear.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR NDOU: Is there anything else that you want to add apart from what you've said already in the affidavit.

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: No, no, there's nothing, since I made application as far as this affidavit is concerned.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I don't want to stall the proceedings but this affidavit has just been handed to me, I didn't have an opportunity to read through it and I think as it will be the same for...(intervention)...

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for ten minutes to give everybody an opportunity to read it.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Van Rensburg?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Before I start, may I just get a directive from the Chairperson regarding the application made by this Applicant regarding the assault GBH.  I think yesterday it was indicated that we would ask the legal representative to give an indication if he's going to withdraw this part of the amnesty application.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that was an undertaking, Mr Ndou.

MR NDOU: (Indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: Have you consulted about it?

MR NDOU: (Indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: And what is the position?

MR NDOU: We're withdrawing (indistinct).

ADV DE JAGER: (Indistinct), I'm not sure.  Could we just have a look at a sentence of the sentence of this particular witness before you - where's the sentence?  Number 13 is on page 203 it seems.  Okay, no, I only want to say that three counts were taken together for purposes of sentence.  And I had the problem that this is a legal problem so, we'll have to deal with that, what would the effect be for instance if one of the counts are not proceeded with for amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) Mr Ndou, paragraph four of Mr Muhadi's affidavit indicates that he applies for amnesty in respect of offences listed above.  I assume you're talking about the offences listed in paragraph two?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: But you've abandoned the one.

MR NDOU: Now that we've abandoned that paragraph, let's take it as if it's been taken out.

ADV SIGODI: (Indistinct).

MR NDOU: Not the whole paragraph as such.

CHAIRPERSON: Must we, when we have regard for this affidavit, must we read it as if to exclude an application in respect of the assault?

MR NDOU: That is so, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Good.  Yes, Mr Van Rensburg.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Muhadi, may we start on your affidavit, do down to paragraph five thereof on page one, the very last line.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we'll make this Exhibit A.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  The sentence reads there
"Our area being a predominantly rural region with superstitious people, the phenomenon of ritual sacrifice for political and economic gain was a reality in this part of the world."
Now, what I want you to explain to us is this phenomenon of ritual sacrifice for political and economic gain, what does that mean in that context?

NGOMANDU AMOS MUHADI: If I can expand clearly, I mentioned that referring to the ministers who were working for the government starting by political gain, they were protecting and they were committing ritual sacrifices, protecting their positions and or their powers which they were having in ruling the government.