Amnesty Hearings — White River — 2000-05-04

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning.  We want to start the proceedings.  For the record, it's Thursday the 4th of May 2000, it is the continuation of the sitting of the Amnesty Committee, at White River, Mpumalanga.  The Panel is constituted as has been indicated on the record earlier.  The Leader of Evidence is still Ms Mtanga.  	We will be hearing the application of Josias Seemise, amnesty reference AM8044/97.
	Just before we proceed to hear this application that's before us this morning - Ms Mtanga, can we just deal with the application that we heard on Tuesday, Nyanda and Others.  There was the one issue that remained about the interested parties, victims, some of whom had not yet indicated what their attitude is towards the application.  Have you managed in the meantime to get any further information about that, and if so, what have you managed to learn about the position of those people?

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Having advertised on the radio that the victims in the application of Mkhonto, Shoke and Nyanda, should contact the Commission, we did get a response and they came to see us yesterday.  We met them at the SABC.  The people that I met with were Mandla Sithole, he is the son of Joel Sithole, who died in the landmine incident where four people were killed and one injured.  Mandla Sithole didn't have a statement to give, all he gave me were the details of his family, that he was the eldest at home and then his younger brother is Vusi Sithole, who is 19 years old and he's in standard 10.  They also have a sister, Zondo Sithole, who is 16 years old and is in standard 6.  Their concern as the family is that they still have their mother but the mother is unemployed.  Mandla Sithole had to leave school in standard 8 in 1988, that is the year after the incident, the landmine incident.  He had to leave school to go and work to support the family and take the two other kids to school.  What he and his family would like the Committee to do is assist them financially and put the two kids through school, and Mandla himself would like to go back to school.  That's what he has stated.
	And then I further met with Mr Michael Sheba.  Michael Sheba is the son of Mr Msibi, who also died in the incident, and also his grandmother, Christina Msibi, also Pagathi, that's another surname that she used at the time, also died in the incident.  So Michael Sheba is the grandchild and the son to the two victims.  His position is that they were living with their mother, they don't have a father, that's him and his brother, Vusi Khumalo.  So he's got a brother who is 25 years old, Vusi Khumalo.  They had to live without any financial support and even today they are unemployed, so they would like the Committee to assist them financially.  That is their position.  Both persons, both victims, Mr Sithole and Mr Sheba, indicated that they are not opposing the application.  Even if they had attended, they would not have opposed.  They understood what was going on at the time, they know that it was a struggle to liberate them and they were aware of MK cadres' involvement in that area, so they are not opposing the application.
	And then this morning I met with Mr James Motsa - the correct surname is M-o-t-s-a, not Mota as it's been on the record.  Mr Motsa was badly injured in that incident, he is blind and he can't speak properly.  He's unemployed and he's depending on pension.  At the time of this incident he was married and he has a son from that marriage.  What he would like the Committee to do is also assist him financially to educate his son, because he's now unemployed.  He doesn't have any source of income except for his pension.  He's also a brother to Sipho Xhomota(?), who also died in that incident.  That is all.  And he is also not opposing the application.  That is their position, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Just one question, Mr Chairperson.  Does their explanation of how the event happened accord with what the applicants told the Committee?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, not exactly.  When I asked Mr Michael Sheba to sort-of draw a diagram, his explanation of the road, the small road where the landmine was put, it's that that road didn't end, it went as far as the Motsa family's homestead, but then it did end in a cul-de-sac, where they would have to walk to their family home, but the point where they put it, if they had driven on that road, they would have been victims of that landmine, because it was the road leading to their home.  But what they do say, which accords with what the applicant says, is that all the families who lived in that area didn't have vehicles and the bakkie that was caught up in that landmine belonged to a Mr Sithole, who lived in an area that was very far from them.  So the vehicles which used the road were indeed vehicles used by the SADF at that time.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Ms Mtanga.

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you, Ms Mtanga, for your trouble, your efforts, we appreciate that.  As we have indicated at the end of the day yesterday, or Tuesday, we will take into account all of the further factors that the interested parties and the victims have placed before us via Ms Mtanga, which we have noted, and that will be taken into account in coming to a decision on those applications.  Yes, well that would conclude that matter.
	We also just want to indicate that we are starting the proceedings later than usual this morning, we've had some difficulty in getting started.  The victims, amongst other things, with an interest in the matter, had to travel to the venue where we are sitting, and the applicant is in custody, he's serving a sentence in regard to some of the matters that he's applying for amnesty in respect of before us, and that has caused some unforeseen delays.  So we are starting the proceedings, unfortunately, later than what we had planned and anticipated and we apologise if any inconvenience has been occasioned as a result of that.
	We will just take the appearances first before we proceed with the application.  On behalf of the applicant?  Mr Lubbe.

MR LUBBE: As the Chairperson pleases.  I am Lubbe J, instructed in terms of Section 34 of the Act, by your Commission.  I am from the company Swart, Redelinghuis, Nel and Partners, based in Krugersdorp.  Telephone number 011-9544000.  Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Lubbe.  We're going anti-clockwise.

MR VAN DER HYDE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I'm Chris van der Hyde, from the attorneys firm, J H van der Merwe attorneys.  I'm appearing on behalf of the implicated persons, namely Mr Linda Napoleon Mkhonza, Mr Dingaan Maluleke and then also on behalf of the IFP.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr van der Heyde.  Then on behalf of the victims and interested parties?

MS MOHAMMED: Mr Chairperson, it's July Mohammed, from the firm Mthembu and Mohammed Attorneys.  I appear for 27 victims.  Should I read the names out for the record, or should I just hand out the list?

CHAIRPERSON: How long is it, Ms Mohammed?

MS MOHAMMED: It's 27 names.

CHAIRPERSON: 27 names.  No, I don't think it's necessary to read it out, it might help us if it is in some written form somewhere, that we can attach it to the record of these proceedings.

MS MOHAMMED: It is, Mr Chairperson.  I'll hand it up.  I'll have a copy made during the course of the proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, so you'll be appearing on behalf of those parties.

MS MOHAMMED: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And we've already indicated that Ms Mtanga appears as the Leader of Evidence.  Mr Lubbe, is there anything you want to put on record, or do you wish your client to take the oath?

MR LUBBE: Mr Chairperson, before we commence, I formally move for an amendment, or certain amendments to the application itself.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.