Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-20

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, the next applicant is Timothy Stals Mazibuko.  He is the fifth name on the list.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mazibuko, what language are you going to speak?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Your full names are Timothy Stals Mazibuko?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, yes?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Mazibuko, you have completed and signed a Form 1, which form appears on page 107 of the bundle?  I want you to identify your signature on the last page of Form 1, on page 109?  Is that your signature?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: It is stated on this form that you were born in Sebokeng, is that correct?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You elected to speak Sotho, but are you a Zulu person or not?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Are you a member of the Inkatha Freedom Party?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You indicated to me that there is something not correct of this Form 1 and you indicated that at paragraph 11(b) this statement as contained there, is not entirely correct.
	I am going to tell you what is written here, then you must just tell me what is incorrect.  An order was given by the leaders of the IFP staying in the kwaMadala hostel, that Boipatong should be attacked.  Orders were given on the 10th and 17th of June 1992, the leaders were Mkhize and Qunchu.
	You are not entirely happy with what is stated there, can you just indicate what is your complaint?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: My problem is that there was a meeting on the 10th, the 10th of June.

MR STRYDOM: According to your recollection, did you go to a meeting on the 10th, where it was discussed that Boipatong should be attacked or not?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: When this thing was discussed on the 10th, I was not present.

MR STRYDOM: When was the first time for you personally to become aware that Boipatong was going to be attacked?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I knew firstly on the 17th of June.

MR STRYDOM: I want to refer you to the Annexure to Form 1.  Do you agree with the contents of this document as was discussed with you before you gave evidence?
	Just to make it clear, this document contains some of the answers from Form 1 which there was not enough space actually, to give a full answer, and the answer is contained in this Annexure.  Do you admit the contents of that answers?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, I do.

MR STRYDOM: Then I want to refer you to a request for further particulars and your answers thereto, that is on page 112 and further.  These answers was - you went through the answers again, do you stand by those answers that you gave?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: And lastly, your affidavit on page 116 to 118, do you stand by the affidavit as contained in this document?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, I do.

MR STRYDOM: Is that your signature on page 118?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Just a few other aspects, you indicated that you lived in Sebokeng.

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: How come did you leave Sebokeng to go and stay in kwaMadala hostel?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: There was a fight between myself and fellow comrades.

MR STRYDOM: Why do you say fellow comrades?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I used to visit a certain friend called Mtana in Sebokeng, he was a member of the IFP from the township.

MR STRYDOM: During the period that you stayed in Sebokeng, were you an IFP supporter or not?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I was not a supporter of any political organisation at that time.

MR STRYDOM: Just tell the Committee more about the problems that you had to deal with in Sebokeng?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: In 1992 I was shot in Sebokeng, shot by comrades.

MR STRYDOM: Did you go to hospital?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, I did.

MR STRYDOM: Could you stay in the hospital for the period to recover?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: No, I did not stay in the hospital.

MR STRYDOM: Where did you go to?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I ran from the hospital.

MR STRYDOM: Why did you run from the hospital?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: My life was in danger in the hospital.

MR STRYDOM: After you left the hospital, where did you go to?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I ran to Madala hostel.

MR STRYDOM: Approximately when did you arrive at kwaMadala hostel?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: That is 1992, I think it was between January and April.  I don't remember the exact date.

MR STRYDOM: You indicated earlier that you are an IFP supporter, when did you become an IFP supporter?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: After I ran from the hospital, I went to Madala hostel and I joined the IFP.

MR STRYDOM: You also indicated that the first time you heard that there would be an attack on Boipatong, was on the 17th of June.  How did it come that you became aware?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I learnt from the stadium.

MR STRYDOM: Who told you at the stadium that Boipatong would be attacked?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: When I arrived at the stadium, Mkhize was giving a speech.

MR STRYDOM: Now were you prepared to go along to Boipatong, to attack the people there?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, I was prepared.

MR STRYDOM: Why were you prepared to go to Boipatong to kill people?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I wanted to pay a revenge for what they did to me.

MR STRYDOM: During that period, could you move freely out of the hostel, in the townships, or not?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: No, I could not move freely in the township.

MR STRYDOM: Why not?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I was afraid that they would burn me.

MR STRYDOM: Did you take a weapon to Boipatong?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: What kind of weapon did you take?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I had an iron bar and a knopkierie.

MR STRYDOM: We have already heard that there was initially one group, but later on two groups, do you agree with that?  That is two groups in Boipatong consisting out of attackers?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Whose group were you in?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: I was in Mkhize's group.

MR STRYDOM: When you went to Boipatong, what was your idea, what would happen in Boipatong?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: We were going to attack and kill members of the Self Defence Unit.

MR STRYDOM: Can you briefly describe what happened in Boipatong when you arrived there?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Before we entered Boipatong, we sat under the tree, then we divided ourselves into two groups.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, and after that?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: We entered in the last street.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, I want you to continue with what happened in Boipatong.

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: When we entered in that street, that is where we had a barricade next to a house, in front of that, on the other side of the tank, there were a group of people.
	I thought those were members of the Self Defence Unit because they were of our age.  After that, we directed fire to them.

MR STRYDOM: Could you see who was firing?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: The one who was next to me, shooting, was Doctor.

MR STRYDOM: What kind of firearm did he use?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: He had a pumpgun.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see anybody else firing shots?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Who did you see?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: That is Mkhize.

MR STRYDOM: What kind of firearm did he have with him?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: He had an AK47.

MR STRYDOM: What happened when those shots were fired in the direction of the Self Defence Unit?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: They ran away.

MR STRYDOM: What happened after that?

TIMOTHY STALS MAZIBUKO: Others entered the houses nearby, others ran on the street.  Then we ran after them, those who were in the houses, and others followed those who ran through the street.