Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-11

WITNESS:  While we were still marching, me and my friends were crossing the road and then we saw the helicopter.  We heard the shots and when we were running back to King William's Town I fell down.  I couldn't stand up again.  I tried and tried but I couldn't.  I slept there until other people came.  They picked me up and they took me to the car and then they took me to the Red Cross tent.  I was taken there with a helicopter and it took me to Frere hospital and then I was taken by the ambulance there to the hospital.  They took me to the x-ray in hospital and they saw the bullet where it was.

ADV SANDI:  You say they saw the bullet where it is?

WITNESS:  Yes.

ADV SANDI:  Did the doctors take the bullet out?

WITNESS:  Yes they took it out at Frere hospital.  I woke up at night and I asked them what happened because I was unconscious.  The bullet was in my stomach.  It penetrated through my back out of the stomach.  I stayed there for a whole week, for two weeks.  I was discharged but I couldn't walk.  My leg was broken and my thigh was broken.

ADV SANDI:  Can you please come nearer to the mike.  Do you get any treatment since you were shot?

WITNESS:  I just have pills for bones.  They gave me pills.

ADV SANDI:  Did you go to any attorneys in order to get some advice?

WITNESS:  Yes I did go to the attorneys.

ADV SANDI:  Who are they?

WITNESS:  I went to Smith, Thabata and van Heerden.

ADV SANDI:  What happened with your case?

WITNESS:  This year in February I got a letter from them and then I went to King William's Town to see them.  They told me that there are some documents in the folder and I have to go to the doctor to get the folder.  They wanted the medical report from the doctor.

ADV SANDI:  When did you get this letter?

WITNESS:  It was in February.  The doctor gave me all the documents.

ADV SANDI:  Wasn't it in March?

WITNESS:  Yes it was in March and the doctor sent them, the folder, and I couldn't hear anything since then but when I went there they told me to wait until now.

ADV SANDI:  Which doctor was this now?

WITNESS:  It was Dr Manda.

ADV SANDI:  Is he in King William's Town or East London?

WITNESS:  He is in East London, Cecilia Makiwane.

ADV SANDI:  Did you go back to the attorneys to hear what was going on?

WITNESS:  Yes I did.

ADV SANDI:  When was the last time you went there?

WITNESS:  Two weeks back I went there and they told me to wait.

ADV SANDI:  What did they say to you?  What did the attorneys say to you?

WITNESS:  They said that they are waiting for the soldiers' response.

ADV SANDI:  Do you have any request to this Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes my request is that I want to know what is going on because I don't know what is going on.  I don't know whether my case is still on.

ADV SANDI:  In your statement you said that because of the injuries you can't stand up for a long time and you can't walk for a long time.  When you talk about standing up, how long can you stand up?

WITNESS:  I can't stand up for the whole day.  I have to take time to sit down but I can't stand for the long time because my leg gets painful.

ADV SANDI:  When you were talking about the long distance, if you can estimate how long is the long distance?

WITNESS:  I can't walk from here to the way to King William's Town because I got tired very early.

ADV SANDI:  Were you like that before?

WITNESS:  No this is new since the shooting.

ADV SANDI:  Is that all you want to say?

WITNESS:  Yes.

ADV SANDI:  Can I put you through to the Chairman of the Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any further questions?  Denzil Potgieter?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Chairperson.  Ms Witbooi, when did you approach the attorneys?

UNKNOWN: ---  I went to the attorneys while they were in East London and they told me the case is late.  They told me my claim was late but they took my statement and they advised me to go to Berlin Advice Centre.  I went there.  I waited for the response from Berlin.  They sent me a letter telling me that I should go there but when I was there they told me that my name is not appearing in the list and they sent me back to the lawyers, Mr Smith and Mr Smith told me they do have my name in Berlin but my document, they lost my documents and they told me to go back to that doctor.

UNKNOWN:  What was, first of all, just can you remember what year was that when you saw the attorneys the first time?  What year was it when you saw them the first time?

WITNESS:  Mr Smith?

UNKNOWN:  H'm.

WITNESS:  It was 1993.

UNKNOWN:  And when was the last time that you heard from Mr Smith?  When was the last time you heard from him or that you saw Mr Smith?

WITNESS:  This year.

UNKNOWN:  So you saw him, sorry.

WITNESS:  It was in March and April this year.

UNKNOWN:  March and April this year.

WITNESS:  Yes.

UNKNOWN:  And what did he tell you then when you saw him?

WITNESS:  They told me to wait because they are still busy with my case.

UNKNOWN:  They still busy with the case.

WITNESS:  H'm.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other?  Thank you.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 13

ADV SANDI: Can we please go to Mr Paulosi Mantyi.
PAULOSI MANTYI   Duly sworn states

ADV SANDI: Can I just make sure about your names.  I'd like to greet you first.  How are you Mr Mantyi?

WITNESS:  Very well thank you, how are you?

ADV SANDI:  What are your full names?  Is it Paulosi Mantyi?

WITNESS:  The name is Paulosi and the surname is Mantyi.

ADV SANDI:  You were also present the day that people were shot.  That means that you are going to speak about yourself, is that so Mr Mantyi?

WITNESS:  Yes that is so sir.

ADV SANDI:  Let us begin with the shooting.  Would you like some water?  You said that at the time that you were shot you were in front or were you close to the entrance to the stadium?

WITNESS:  I was very far from the stadium and since there were a lot of people that day, we saw that there were a lot of people in the road.  We were sitting on the tar road because there was an instruction from the people in front.  It was announced on the loudspeaker that we should sit down and we sat down.  While sitting there, we saw that we were going to be hurt by the people coming on because the rest of the crowd because they hadn't heard the announcement and we got out of the way and went.  There were walls near the stadium, near the field and we went down that way because we were going to go over the embankment and we saw the people getting up going towards the stadium.  We then, there were four of us and we proceeded.

ADV SANDI:  Had the shooting all started at that time Mr Mantyi?

WITNESS:  No they had not started.

ADV SANDI:  Let us start with when the shooting started.

WITNESS:  When I crossed over, we went over the stream and I saw this helicopter.  It wasn't a Ciskei helicopter, it was something known as the Mellow Yellow and when it went up there was dust because when a helicopter takes off it causes dust.  I last saw the helicopter taking off and the next thing we heard gunfire and something else that is difficult for me is that when we fell there, the grass was  also being burnt and since the grass was very long, it had been set alight and I had passed there and been on the other side of the grass that wasn't burning yet.  In all the time that they were shooting I thought that they were using rubber bullets or teargas.  We then proceeded and we were told to lie flat on our stomachs and I somersaulted.  When I somersaulted I realised that I almost somersaulted into the burning grass and I got up trying to get away from the burning grass and that's when I was struck by a bullet.

ADV SANDI:  Who set the grass alight?