Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-22

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: What I did was, we left and we went to Christopher Ndlandhla's place in Umlazi, it was myself and Innocent.  Thompson himself was present.
	We went to kwaMashu, we were headed for kwaMashu.  On that particular day, I did not get inside, except Thompson and Innocent went inside and quickly returned and told me that he was not in the house.
	The following day, when we went there for the second time, on a Sunday, Thompson said we should go back again and we agreed that we will go his place of work, that is where we will wait for him.  Monday morning truly we went there, because he was working at Tisha Centre, that is where he was working, and we arrived in the morning before he arrived.
	We waited for him there, until he arrived.  Thompson told him that there is a person who wanted to see him.  I have forgotten as to what name he mentioned, but we knew that he was fooling him about that.  There was no person in other words there to see him, so that he could come along with us.  That was just a trick.
	Ndlandhla performed some delaying tactics to an extent that he even said and admitted that he had a meeting with the management of Juba Breweries.  He informed us to that effect and he left, he went his way and we went our way.  We parted.
	In the afternoon, we went to his house then, and I got inside myself and Innocent as well.  We found his brother inside and his wife.  That is Ndlandhla's brother's wife and the wife was expectant.
	Innocent knew the family quite well, the Meheza family.  It was their first time to see me, but they knew Innocent very well, because it looks like Innocent once stayed with them.
	After we said that we were looking for Ndlandhla, they told us that he just stepped out, he will be back and they started chatting generally with Christopher's brother, that is Ndlandhla's brother and Innocent.
	As they were still conversing, Ndlandhla came in and then Innocent knew very well that these are Christians, in other words that family was a Christian family, they believed in praying and we prayed suddenly and Ndlandhla came in and he was wearing a white T-shirt and it was raining outside and he got inside the bedroom and put on a jacket.
	He came and joined us for prayer, we knelt down.  Ndlandhla was the last one who prayed.  He prayed for a long time and immediately after that, we were telling them we were leaving and Ndlandhla accompanied us.    We took him, we told him to get inside the car and we now argued as to where he shall sit.
	He didn't want to sit right in the middle of us, he wanted to sit by the door, but we insisted that he should sit right in the middle, and we took a certain route, the N2.  Just before we got, it was about 1.5 km before we reached the toll gate towards kwaZulu, on the N2, we parked there.  We pulled off and we got into the sugar cane plantation.  That is when Thompson asked him as to who was he working with.
	He cried suddenly and said no, I am not working with anyone.  There was some evidence that Thompson had ...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, you are mentioning Thompson.  Was Thompson there or was it Innocent?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: It was Innocent and Thompson was present as well.  Yes, Innocent but Thompson was there as well.
	Thompson asked him as to why he was saying he was not working with anyone and yet every Monday he meets certain people and call that group of people and there was some piece of evidence that I gathered that day, that there were pictures or photo's that were taken and Thompson was appearing on those photo's in the company of a certain Police, right next to the car of that Policeman.  I think the place that they were using was Maharan Hotel and the City Hall.
	Ndlandhla responded and agreed to what he was saying and then he confirmed yes, he started working with them since 1990.  Thompson was concerned as to why he did not say that much, in other words he agreed to all that Thompson was saying to him, and accepted that, and we shot him subsequently, myself and Innocent.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee how many times did you shoot him?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: I shot him five times myself, and Innocent shot him twice.

MR MBANDAZAYO: What did you do with his body then after that?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: We just left it laying there on the ground.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where did you go after the incident?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: After that, we went back to the car and we drove back.  That is when we parted with Thompson and Innocent.
	They took their way, Thompson and Innocent that is.  As to where they went or headed for, I don't know.  I met Innocent after a long time, that is when he told me immediately after that, they proceeded to Transkei.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, did you yourself have any knowledge that Ndlandhla was working with the Police?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: Yes, I once had such rumours relating to that effect that Ndlandhla was colluding or working hand in hand as an informer with the Police.  I once heard something to that effect.
	I gathered that from I will say around the beginning of 1990.  It was a common knowledge within the organisation that Ndlandhla was colluding with the Police, with the enemy.  That is when I discovered and proved that to be true after I also got that from Thompson, especially after the instruction was given that Ndlandhla shall be eliminated.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you yourself at any stage, see him, at any stage see him with the Police, that is Ndlandhla?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: Yes, there was an incident when I saw some photo's or pictures or a photo and that photo displayed Ndlandhla going away from work, going to a certain car, a powder blue car, and the car driver was white, was a white man.
	After some time, in 1991, one PAC member, Innocent, was arrested or got arrested for AK47 magazine and he was arrested in Durban at the PAC offices.  After his arrest, I frequented the prison to go visit and see him.  I will always see this Police who was handling the case of Innocent and the very Police, I had seen at that picture or the photo were in Ndlandhla's possession.  That is one other piece of evidence that made me believe that truly and indeed, Ndlandhla is working with the Police.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Ngema, let's come now to the second incident, that is the death of John Kanyile in October 1992, the taxi driver.
	Can you tell the Committee what was your mission, how many of you were involved, who are those people you were involved with?