Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you very much, Mrs Magwaza.   A number of issues emerged from your testimony.  One of them is very deep hurt, deep hurt about what happened to you, what happened to your husband, but especially what happened between you and your family.   I think that you are very lucky and that it is wonderful that you had your sister's support and continue to have your sister's support.  But I am wondering that in unearthing and opening the wounds, if in fact you want to consider some kind of way to help you reunite with your family, if that is possible, because one of the things that we do is to encourage reconciliation.   And I am just wondering about your thoughts about that?

WITNESS:   My sister did tell me recently that my brother had said to her that he wanted to see me again, but it seems that some how he is afraid of that.   And even I felt nervous.   I phoned my sister to tell her that I was going to testify today, and I felt very nervous about inviting her to come, but I did ask her and then she said she would think about it, and she phoned me back again and said that she didn't want to dig into the wounds again.   She said that she had heard from my uncle, who had overheard it from some policeman, that the men who murdered my parents were dead, that they were killed in a shootout with the police.   I don't know if this is true or not, but she said what she is trying to do now is to strive forward to the future.   I don't know how my brother would react to the idea of someone else mediating as it were a reconciliation between us, but I am hopeful that we might be able to be reconciled as a family.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: May I ask you a rather personal question and hopefully not insensitive question, how do you feel now that you have been able to talk about this?

WITNESS:   I - it took a lot of courage to come and speak in public today, because of the feeling that you mustn't drag your family's dirty laundry into the public, and especially for instance if your parents are already dead, it might seem to my brother and sister that I am being disrespectful and that I am doing a wrong thing in creating a bad image of my parents and of my family in other people's eyes, but I want to stress that that is not my intention and that was not my motivation in speaking.   I really wanted to just show how a system like this can destroy people's lives and if in testifying publicly I am succeeded in doing that, then I feel that it is - it has been worth doing.  So, I am feeling positive about that.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: It takes a great deal of courage, as you say, to talk particularly about family problems, in public.  I would be remiss if I didn't ask you how your children were coping with all of this?

WITNESS:   I think they are - they are doing better since my husband stopped drinking alcohol and we have been stabilized more as a family.   They are coming on a lot better than they were before, although some times I still feel like Maboya in particular, because he was exposed to a lot of things at a very early age, that maybe he can quite easily become depressed, but we are encouraging him and I think they are doing okay.  Thank you.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Other than in directly asking the commission to look into greater reconciliation, is there anything else that you might wish from the commission?

WITNESS:   I don't know if it is possible for the commission to investigate whether my husband could be granted an indemnity.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Noted.   Thank you very much and I will hand over to the chairperson.   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Questions?   Marie, thank you for coming forward today to share your story with us.   What does emerge from it is the fact that there is a huge divide still in this country which does need to be bridged and that it is only education about each other, about the differences that there are, racial, cultural, and with some kind of education for tolerance and respect that we will be able to become one nation.   Your story makes us acutely aware of that, and we feel your pain.   We are able to investigate whether your husband can be granted an indemnity and we will certainly put that on the list for a task that will need to be followed.   Thank you for coming today.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: /VIRGINIA

CHAIRPERSON: VIRGINIA MBATHA   (Sworn States) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: We have asked Ms Tiny Mayer, a member of this committee, to assist you with your evidence.   Tiny?

MS T MAYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.   I greet you, Mrs Mbatha.

WITNESS:    I don't know whether you will understand me, because I will be speaking Xhosa, but if you don't understand.

MS T MAYER: I can hear you.   There are some many stories that have been related to us today.   And as it is now we have got lumps in our throat and we do understand that also your story is one of the most painful stories.   Now, will you just give us a brief background.   You are going to tell us about your harassment and detention up to such time that you felt like a hunted animal.