Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-22

CHAIRPERSON: Today, the 22nd April 1998, in the various applications of Visser and others.  The Committee is constituted as follows:  myself, Judge Ngoepe and to my right, Advocate Bosman, to my left, Advocate Sigodi and to my far left Attorney Malan.  Mr Brink?

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, the various next of kin, victims have all been served, I have returns of service given to me by Colonel Killian.  The only person who was not served was Mr Abel Sibohadi and I am told by Colonel Killian that the address given was impossible to trace.  He is the only person who could not be served with a notice.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there an application in respect of him as well?

MR BRINK: No, no, no, he is one of those, the next of kin.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry?

MR BRINK: He was one of the, I think related to one of those who were killed.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I'm sorry, I had somebody else in mind, I'm sorry.  Alright, we have taken note of that.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Chairman, may I just through you put a question.
	Mr Brink, it would seem as though Mr Abel Sibohadi was a victim of an assault.

MR BRINK: Oh, he was a victim, you're quite right Madam.  Anyway he couldn't be traced despite efforts.

CHAIRPERSON: So I was right in my thinking.

MR BRINK: I beg your pardon.

CHAIRPERSON: So well, in which case my question stands, is there any application for amnesty in respect for the assault on him?  Mr Prinsloo?  Miss van der Walt?  Because I don't seem to recall that.
	This is the gentleman who came with the bakkie, was stopped and then later the bakkie stalled and then it was pushed and then got stuck ...[intervention]

MS VAN DER WALT: It's part of that case.

CHAIRPERSON: It's part of it?

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thanks.  Anyway you say that despite diligent effort he could not be traced?

MR BRINK: I'm given to understand that yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright thank you.  Yes, I suppose we can now proceed.  Mrs van der Walt?  Oh, sorry, place yourselves, let everybody place themselves on record please and as to whom they are appearing for.

MS VAN DER WALT: I am appearing on behalf of the first applicant, Mr Phil Kloppers and the second applicant, Mr Deon Martin.

MR PRINSLOO: Chairman, I am appearing on behalf of Matthews, the two Visser's, Badenhorst, Diedericks and Meiring.

MR KNOETZE: May it please you Mr Chairman, my name is Barnard Knoetze, I appear on behalf of Martinus Lodewickes van der Schyff on the instruction of Mr Jan Wagener of the firm Wagener, Muller and du Plessis of Pretoria.

CHAIRPERSON: Thanks.  Mrs van der Walt?

MS VAN DER WALT: As we discussed in chambers, I would like to have called in the first applicant first, Mr Kloppers because I regard his evidence as the most important with regard to this application but as a result of the fact that certain legal representatives are not prepared as of yet to appear here, I will now call the second applicant, Mr Deon Martin.

DEON MARTIN: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please proceed Mrs van der Walt.

MS VAN DER WALT: You have applied for amnesty ...
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

MS VAN DER WALT: The events for which you are applying for amnesty appear in the Annexure, do you confirm the content thereof?

DEON MARTIN: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you also confirm the content of Annexure B?

DEON MARTIN: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Martin, you were born on the 12th of December 1963, is that correct?

DEON MARTIN: No, that's the 12th of May 1963.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were found guilty of which offences?

DEON MARTIN: Chairperson, I was found guilty of murder, attempted murder, assault, assault with purpose and the possession of guns and ammunition.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you also then apply for the offences for which you have been found guilty?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, that's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And what was your sentence?

DEON MARTIN: I received the death penalty four times as well as 20 years correctional service.

MS VAN DER WALT: And has your death penalty been amended?

DEON MARTIN: Negative, not at this point.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Martin, were you a member of the South African Police?

DEON MARTIN: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the period of time in which you served as a policeman in the police services, during that time, against who did you act?

DEON MARTIN: That was between 1981 and 1985 when I served in the police services and we acted against the ANC/SACP Alliance.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you ever do border duty?

DEON MARTIN: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: For what period of time?

DEON MARTIN: I cannot recall the exact time period but I did perform border duty twice.

MS VAN DER WALT: And after you had left the military, did you join any other political organisation?

DEON MARTIN: That's correct, I joined the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you joint the AWB?

DEON MARTIN: I believed that it was the only movement which could resist the government of that time as well as the ANC/SACP Alliance.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you want to resist the government of that time and the ANC/SACP Alliance?

DEON MARTIN: I believed that the AWB was fighting for the right to self determination and I believed that that was an important right for every nation, to determine themselves.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you believe as a member of the AWB, would happen should the ANC/SACP Alliance come into power?

DEON MARTIN: I believed that a black majority government would have oppressed the Afrikaner volk completely.

MS VAN DER WALT: There are just singular aspects regarding the affidavits of the applicant which I would like to bring to the Committee's attention.  On page 27 paragraph 3, he says
"I underwent various courses with the AWB"
That should read:
"SAP"
and furthermore it reads:
"Other AWB courses"
that's page 27 paragraph 3.  It is not that he underwent courses with the AWB, it was the SAP.  And then the second sentence should be inserted:
"that other AWB and IFP courses were undergone"
and that has been omitted.
And then on page 27 paragraph 6, it is stated, and this is on the second line:
"every week"
it should read:
"every second week"
Furthermore, on the same page, paragraph 8, the 5th sentence or line should read:
"He informed us that the General's staff had an underground meeting place"
and it should be inserted:
"along with Constant Viljoen"
that has been omitted, it should be inserted.  Page 35 Chairperson, the 5th line from the top of the page:
"we attempted"
it should not read:
"attempted"
that should be omitted:
"we picked up all the shells on the scene"
and the rest of the sentence:
"however it was not very successful"
should be omitted.  And then just for the sake of completion furthermore it reads:
"I cut off the man's ear with a knife with the deceased, General Nick Fourie had given to me approximately two weeks before the incident"
Page 11, paragraph 28, page 37, paragraph 28, the 3rd line from the bottom of the paragraph should read:
"I was later also promoted to the rank of Colonel by General Oelofse"
that is how it should read.  Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Martin, you then joined the AWB, did you undergo any courses or present any courses?

DEON MARTIN: I did present courses but I did not undergo any AWB courses.

MS VAN DER WALT: Which courses did you present and to whom?

DEON MARTIN: The courses which we presented were usually in preparation for war, the war which was being planned.  We prepared the women and children to defend themselves and those who received training were AWB members.

MS VAN DER WALT: Your application indicates that you presented courses to the IFP, which courses were those?

DEON MARTIN: The same courses.

MS VAN DER WALT: Which rank did you occupy within the AWB?

DEON MARTIN: During the incident I was a Commandant in the AWB, second in command.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who was in command?

DEON MARTIN: The Chief Commander, Phil Kloppers.

MS VAN DER WALT: That is the first applicant?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, that's correct.