Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: Yes.  Firstly what I want to say is that I want to thank the Committee of the TRC to give me this opportunity to state before this Committee.  Mainly members of the families, friends and the community at large, that what I did is a mistake.  I want to thank this Committee, if it wasn't because of this Committee what I'm saying today could not have been known.
	To this Committee I want to thank them and together with the parent of Bafino and KK, I want to ask them for forgiveness because it was not my intention to do what I did with their children even though I understand their pain.

MR KOOPEDI: That will be the case for the applicant for now, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the adjournment now and resume at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: May he reminded that he is still under oath.

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp?

MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Sir, do I understand you correctly, that the killing of the deceased was a decision made among yourselves, you did have any orders to do so at all?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: ...[no English translation]

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] any decision taken to kill.

MR STEENKAMP: Sorry, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] the situation developed which resulted in the stabbing or the killing, without there being any formal decision to do so.

MR STEENKAMP: I'll leave it at that Sir.

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: May we proceed?

MR STEENKAMP: Can you maybe explain to the Committee, how do you link or how can you link your actions to any kind of political motive?  Is it possible to do that, can you explain to us?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: What we did was political because this gang that we are talking about and to which these two people belonged, did atrocities to the community.  As I've already said, I was an Organising Secretary of the Youth League, I knew these people.  I knew them because of their horrible deeds that I've already mentioned in front of the TRC.

MR STEENKAMP: Than I'm also asked to ask you, can you tell the Committee what happened to the bodies of the deceased?  Did you just leave them there or what happened to them, do you know?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: We left them there where we stabbed them.

MR STEENKAMP: Would you agree with applicant number 1 that this attack or killing that you embarked on was an act of self-defence?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: According to me this was not done for revenge but to defend ourselves because these people were fighting but our intention was to catch them.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you just give me the proper names or can you indicate to us who exactly was involved in the killing of the first deceased and who exactly was involved in the killing of the second deceased?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: Deceased number 1 - I'm the one who killed deceased number 2, but deceased number 1 was comrade Steve and the comrade who has just spoken here and comrade Maumakwe who had a role in his death. As I've already said, I was busy with Bafino, the second one, myself and comrade Maumakwe.

MR STEENKAMP: And when you reported - did you report this back to the ANC Youth League?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: As I've already said, on Sunday I was supposed to report back as the Organising Secretary but I could not because the committee was not back from the meeting, therefore I reported to the comrade's secretary on Monday as to what happened in Bekkersdal.

MR STEENKAMP: And what was his reaction?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: He told us that what we have done is an offence and I told him that I do agree with him because we were to catch these people, not kill them.

MR STEENKAMP: Did he indicate to you whether or not this action which you committed or the deed which you committed was not within the framework of the ANC Youth League's police, or guidelines or mandate?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: As I've already said, I was the Organising Secretary of the ANC Youth League, the Interim Committee in the township.  According to the constitution we were not allowed to kill, therefore that is why I came here today to say that I made a mistake and we committed an offence, it was not the wish of the organisation to kill.

MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STEENKAMP

ADV DE JAGER: Why was Mr Mokome attacked by the gang?  I'm going back to his home or wherever he was going at that stage.

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: I don't know why they attacked him, but what I heard about this gang is that they were terrorising youth in the township that were against their deeds and as the organisation members.  I think that is why they stabbed him.

ADV DE JAGER: Didn't they earlier that evening have an argument with him about girls?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: This very same thug, he did say that this gentleman should not talk to his girlfriend.  We didn't argue with him, we just disarmed him, took his knife, and then they went away.

ADV DE JAGER: And then it seems as though they had been waiting for Mr Mokome to come out, and attack him on his way home, after leaving?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: What I know is, we took their knife in Block A and comrade Mokome was stabbed in our Block 7.  As to whether they were lying in wait for him, that I'm not sure of.

ADV DE JAGER: Did he at any stage tell you why they attacked him?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: What he just said to me is that they said he is a comrade and he is interfering with their duties in the township, of robbing spaza shops and terrorising everybody.

ADV DE JAGER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR KOOPEDI: Nothing in re-examination, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you are excused, thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED