Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-19

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, the affect of cross-examination may be lost if certain documents are handed in beforehand, and this is one of the documents.  I'm not sure exactly when we got hold of this document, but I was handed this document only this morning.  But I would submit in certain circumstances, for cross-examination purposes, it would appropriate to hand in a document at the relevant time when the witness is cross-examined and when the witness has already committed herself to certain answers, otherwise the affect is gone of the cross-examination.

CHAIRPERSON: The purpose my urging the parties to make sure that they exchange documents well in advance is to prevent unnecessary delays, just like is happening now.  It is a complete waste of time.  This is not a trial by ambush, it may be necessary to investigate some of the documents that are being handed in.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, Chairperson, we are in the unfortunate position that we don't have ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Carry with your cross-examination.

MR STRYDOM: Ja.  I've put to you that according to this medical report two injuries are stated here, do you want to comment why the other injuries do not appear on this, or don't you want to comment?

FLORENCE MOLETE: If they do not appear on that report, I don't know, because I was at the hospital.

MR STRYDOM: Can this exhibit be marked HH?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: You've testified yesterday that whilst you were injured on your private parts, that things like - what was said was that
"That's where the children from Mandela comes from"
Is that correct?  
CHAIRPERSON
"The dogs from Mandela come from".
MR STRYDOM
"The dogs from Mandela come from"

FLORENCE MOLETE: That is what happened to me.

MR STRYDOM: Why didn't you tell that to Kekana when he took the statement?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Mr Kekana would ask a question and I would give him the answer and then he will ask me to explain and I did that.  I have also mentioned before this Committee, that I was still in pain at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Molete, to enable us to go through this ...(indistinct) much easier, would you please endeavour to answer the question.  What is being put to you is that in the statement that you made to Mr Kekana, there is no mention of the statement to the effect that this is where Mandela's dogs come from.  Do you understand that?

FLORENCE MOLETE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: As far as you can remember, did you tell Mr Kekana about this?

FLORENCE MOLETE: That's correct, Chair, I did not tell him because many things were written and he was in a hurry as well.

MR STRYDOM: But you told him about the injury to your vagina, why didn't you at that stage - it wouldn't have taken much time, tell him what was said whilst that injury was inflicted?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, can we take this point any further?  The witness has said she did not tell him.

MR LAX: Mr Strydom, you know if one looks at the statement there is no mention other than assault, of the actual details of what happened to her as relayed in her oral evidence at all.  And at the end she just talks about in general all the injuries she sustained, at the very end of the statement.  So if you are going to explore anything that would be what to do.

CHAIRPERSON: Well Mr Strydom, did you ask her whether she told Kekana about the statements relating to the dogs of Mandela?

MR STRYDOM: With special reference as she testified, where they come from, pointing to her private parts, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And what was the witness' answer?

MR STRYDOM: She didn't tell that to Kekana because she didn't have, he was in a hurry and she didn't have time to tell him that.

MR BERGER: No, he was in a hurry and many things were written down.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  So is her answer "I did not tell him because Kekana was in a hurry and many things were said".

MR BERGER: Yes. - written down.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say written down, because I've got here
"Many things were said"

MR BERGER: Many things were written.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, alright.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you.  I want to turn now to your evidence about the elimination.  You testified about the Apollo lights and if you can have a look at Exhibit J, I want you to indicate where these lights are.

CHAIRPERSON: Before he does that, is there any issue about where these Apollo lights were?

MR STRYDOM: There's still the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Objectively speaking.

MR BERGER: Well the only think is, Mr Strydom has a report which indicates certain things and Ms Molete disputed that, but I'm sure we could take a drive out and establish it for ourselves.

CHAIRPERSON: I think if you could at a certain point just verify the location of those, with reference to the exhibit.  I think it's ...(indistinct).

MR BERGER: Yes, alright.

CHAIRPERSON: And also, I suppose you would take the map, Exhibit J, if you could just highlight them where they are because it just seems to me that it's not an issue which can just occupy us for the whole day.  Either these Apollo lights were where they are and that's the end of the matter.

MR BERGER: If Mr Strydom wants to come with us he's welcome to, we can together.

MR STRYDOM: We'll do it in due course, at an appropriate time.  I just want to enquire about a third source of light that's mentioned, apart from the Apollo lights.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, indeed.

MR STRYDOM: Your evidence - apart from the Apollo lights, you also said that there was a light, next to the shack there was also a light.  Do you still refer to the same Apollo lights or was there some other source of light next to the shack? - in your evidence-in-chief.  Do you understand the question?  You said that - you made reference to light in QwaQwa and another one at the curb at Bakwena Street and then you said
"Next to the shack there was also a light"
Now I just want to find out if, apart from the Apollo light there's another light?

FLORENCE MOLETE: The Apollo light is at the curb in Mohokari Street.

MR STRYDOM: ...(inaudible)

FLORENCE MOLETE: It's at the corner of Mohokari in Babedi Street.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, I think - I agree with you that there is a light, but I want to know, you said something about the light next to the shack.  I just want to find out if there's another light.

MR LAX: Can I help you, Mr Strydom.  Her evidence was that there were houses on the built-up portion of Boipatong, that borders on Mokwena, it's the road between them and Slovo Park, and she said the lights from those houses were an additional source.  That was her testimony.

MR STRYDOM: Did you hear that?  Is that what you said?

FLORENCE MOLETE: The house that is facing my shack, they have a light on the kitchen door and on the other two sides of the house.  So when those lights are on, the light reaches my shack.

MR STRYDOM: When you heard the sounds outside, did you speak to Phule at all?

CHAIRPERSON: Would you just answer the question first.

MR STRYDOM: The question was:  at the stage you heard sounds outside, just before the attack, did you speak to Phule or did he speak to you? - before the people entered the shack.

FLORENCE MOLETE: I was talking to them.  While they in the bedroom I was in the kitchen.

CHAIRPERSON: Now let me just get this explained.  You mention a house that has a light on the outside, would that house be located along, would that be the row of houses located along Bakwena Street?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR STRYDOM: Now the question is, did you say something to Phule when you heard sounds outside?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I called Matsileng and I told her that there is something that is happening outside and I also called Phule and then I said to him: "There are men outside".  I was talking to them while they were in the bedroom.

MR STRYDOM: Did he reply to you?

FLORENCE MOLETE: He said to me we should sleep.