Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-30

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It has been translated for him into Sesotho or perhaps I should read out for the translator to catch and convey to him.  I will read that number 2 on page 29.
"Applicant does not know however, he believed that the two victims had been hired or sent to kill him by one Oupa Kisitibe also known as Machangani who was a member of the Three Million gang"
Did you hear that one?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Yes, I heard that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, just tell the Committee what made believe that the victims were members of the Three Million gang.

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I think these people were sent, not necessary that they were the members of Three Million because they reside in the Daveyton and the Three Million reside in Kroonstad.  I think they were sent by Oupa Machangani who is the brother to Sitibe who was a member of the Three Million, I think he is the person who sent these guys to attack me in Daveyton because I was in Daveyton.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Can you ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: Could I - but they not sent, you found them in the tavern, they were already sitting there drinking.

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Can I please be given a little chance to explain?  We were accommodated at a house and the tavern is three houses from where we were accommodated.  The first house where I went to look for Benny Sitibe is in that tavern and when I arrived there I saw those chaps and it was my first time to see them there because I used to sit at the front stoep and people - I saw them when they - I saw the people when they were passing - going to that area, it was my first time to see them.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I think the problem that we have Mr Mohasa is, if they had been sent to kill you, how did they know that you would be coming to that tavern on that particular day and at that particular time?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I was looking for Benny Sitibe and when I left the house I was in the company of the girl who stayed where we were accommodated and when we arrived there I asked Petina Mani who is a relative to Benny Sitibe - he was in the company of these chaps and when I asked where Benny Sitibe was, they said Benny Sitibe was out, he was coming back.  In other words he was sitting with them and I stayed for quite some time thinking that he would come back, he never came back and that is when I decided to leave and when we left this whole incident started.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Benny Sitibe's brother Machangani, you knew very well that he was a member of the Three Million gang, not so?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Yes, I knew he was a member of the Three Million gang.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you knew very well from Kroonstad that your organisation and the Three Million gang did not see eye to eye, you actually said you'd fight whenever you met, not so?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: That's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And it is at Benny Sitibe's place where you were accommodated and slept?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: That is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And Benny Sitibe's brother Machangani stays in that very same house, not so?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Machangani resides in Kroonstad, in Daveyton it is their relative.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: But Machangani would have know that you were in Daveyton because you went home with his brother Benny, not so?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: When we left it was not known that we are leaving and our destination was also not known, we left quietly.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Mpshe, do you have questions which will adduce favourable evidence in support of the applicant in respect of this particular incident?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, there is none absolutely.

CHAIRPERSON: I think maybe move on to deal with the other incident, if you have got any questions - the first incident that he dealt with.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, the first incident being the Kroonstad incident, I've not questions thereto absolutely.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any re-examination Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: None Mr Chair, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION B Y MR MTHEMBU

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mohasa, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mthembu, where is Mr Monyake?

MR MTHEMBU: He's ...[indistinct] in front.

CHAIRPERSON: Can he come back please, there is something that I would like to clear up with you which I forgot.
	You are still under oath Mr Monyake.  I'm sorry, I must apologise most profusely, it wouldn't be you, it will be the previous gentleman.  I'm very sorry about that, you are excused.  It was Mr Mohase in relation to the first incident.  You can go back, I'm sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: You are still under oath Mr Mohasa.

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: You were asked as to whether you knew the deceased that you shot and killed with your special revolver and you said something like: "Yes you knew him, you also knew his family or his people and that they had brought you up" - something to that effect, am I right?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that you were related to the deceased?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: No, not Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean when you say that his people brought you up?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I meant that they knew me very well, when I was growing they were - I was still there and I used to visit that family and stay there and these are the people I did not have problems with.

CHAIRPERSON: And as far as the deceased is concerned, the only problem you had with him was that he was a member of the Three Million gang?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: That was my only problem.

CHAIRPERSON: I think I've cleared what I wanted to clear up.

ADV DE JAGER: The family of the deceased, are they here, do you recognise them?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: Yes, they as present.

ADV DE JAGER: Is there perhaps anything you wanted to say to them?

GIFT SEKITLA MOSES MOHASA: I want to say to them I'm very sorry for what happened and I could not do otherwise, it was the situations and I'm really very sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you are excused, you can go back.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, you indicated that some relatives were here, is there any witnesses you wanted to call?