Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duncan Village — 1996-09-24

UNKNOWN: The Prosecutors told me that it was a police from Pretoria and a security police, but they said they found him, my brother, dead but guilty because he had been found with stones, which means that they had been stoning the police vans.

MR SANDI: Did you again go back to Mr Lalla and discuss this matter so as to have a way forward in as far as this problem is concerned?

UNKNOWN: I tried as I was advised by the Senior Prosecutor who told me that Mr Lalla had failed and therefor I had to look for another lawyer.

MR SANDI: Did you do that?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did go to another lawyer in Nasbank and there was an Indian guy that I talked to and he said he was going to talk to Mr Lalla but I went on that day and this Indian man said it would be very difficult for him to take over from Mr Lalla, because they were working together, so he advised me that I should go to another lawyer, or he
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referred me to the BLACK SASH.
 And then he asked me to go outside with the intention to phone to Grahamstown, so as to find out what was happening with this case.
 And he said to me this case was known in Grahamstown and I don't know who these people were.

MR SANDI: Now you say at the time you were talking to this lawyer, you could not claim, you could not institute a claim on this death, now you say in your statement you went to offices of the Lawyers for Human Rights, here in East London - did they say the time had expired?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's what they said, but I wouldn't take this because this is what happened in 1989.

MR SANDI: I see that you also wrote a letter to the Minister of Safety and Security, when was that?

UNKNOWN: It was in November, last year.

MR SANDI: Did you get any response?

UNKNOWN: No, I'm still waiting for the response even now.

MR SANDI: Is that all you would like to say?

UNKNOWN: I would say I also gave a statement to the BLACK SASH and I was attended to by a White lawyer who wrote down the statement and they promised to write to me and they did, calling me to their office.
 And they asked me to go and get my file from Mr Lalla so as to be able to look into the details in the file, and proceed with the case.  This is the time when Lalla was not going to the court.

MR SANDI: Now, could we now talk about Themba?  How old was Themba at the time?

UNKNOWN: Themba was 20 years old at the time and he was working at Nash and he was about to go for initiation.
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MR SANDI: Do you perhaps have requests that you would like to forward to this Commission?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I wish that this Commission should now take over because my intention was to institute a claim for the death of my brother.

MR SANDI: Is that all you have to say?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I've said everything.

MR SANDI: Thank you, Mr Majuba.

BONGANI FINCA: Over to you Revd Xundu.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairman.  Mr Majuba, did Themba have any family?  Was Themba married?

UNKNOWN: No, but he had a child with another lady and that child is about 13 years old.

REV XUNDU: That is family.  Now how old is that child now?

UNKNOWN: He is about 13 or 14.

REV XUNDU: Does he go to school?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he goes.

REV XUNDU: Do you know the names of the child?

UNKNOWN: Her name is Siabonga.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Over to you, June Crichton?

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Majuba, we wait for you.  I have three short questions.  Can you hear me?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: The letter that you sent to the Minister of Safety and Security, do you by any chance have a copy of that?

UNKNOWN: That's where I made the mistake, because when I was writing this letter, I did not have a copy to keep with me.
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JUNE CRICHTON: And the second question is the Senior Public Prosecutor that you spoke to, do you know what his name was?

UNKNOWN: I do not know his name, because even in court the Lawyers for Human Rights did go to that office and did not find the short man I had talked to who was a White man.

JUNE CRICHTON: Then I am misunderstanding you completely, I thought the short man was the man at the mortuary?

UNKNOWN: Even the Senior Prosecutor was short, stout and speaking Xhoza though he was White.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you.  And then you said you had gathered information from the people who witnessed the incident that the police shot Themba.  Have those names been documented, can you write a list of those names for us?

UNKNOWN: I know that those people who informed me are here in this very hall and if you need them, they will surely come up.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you.