Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

CHAIRPERSON: Is the next applicant Mr Feni?

MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, for now I haven't thoroughly consulted with Mr Feni.  The arrangement that we made is that immediately after the three I will give my colleagues the chance to take over with other applications.  So I therefore request that I be excused now.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, so the application of Mr Feni will stand down to ...

MR SIBEKO: It's correct so, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, then I think you are excused for the moment.  What is the next application?  Which one is it, what are his full names?

MR MOPEDI: Simphiwe Ndlovu.

CHAIRPERSON: Is just Simphiwe?  Is it number 7074/97?

MR MOPEDI: 7074/97.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't you just want to put yourself on record for Mr Ndlovu?

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  May name is Cavendish Mopedi and ...(indistinct) Mopedi Attorneys here in Alberton.  I am appearing on behalf of Mr Simphiwe Ndlovu in this matter, Mr Chairman.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mopedi.  Mr Ndlovu, do you hear me?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Are your full names Simphiwe Ndlovu?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mopedi, over to you.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Ndlovu, you are the applicant in this matter and you are applying for amnesty, is that correct?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: And further, you are a former member of the Self Defence Unit here in Thokoza, that is Lusaka-A?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: I want you to explain to this forum what actually prompted you to bring this application.

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I was prompted to seek amnesty because I was a member of the SDU that operated in Thokoza at the Lusaka section, because also I was involved in the shooting and the carrying of an illegal firearm.

MR MOPEDI: When did you become a member of the SDU?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I joined the SDU in 1993.

MR MOPEDI: Were you forced to join it?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I joined out of my own volution.

ADV GCABASHE: Sorry, Mr Mopedi, do you then want us to amend 9(a) of the application, dates 1990 to May 1994?  9(a) - he joined in 1993, 9(a) speaks of activities between 1990 to 1994.  I don't know whether you want that to be amended or what the position is.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, I'll verify it with my client.
	In your application, Mr Ndlovu, it appears that you joined the SDU in 1990 until 10 May 1994, could you explain?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I would say from 1990 we were still very young but yes, we were participating but by barricading the road and using petrol bombs, but in 1993 yes, I was now using a firearm.

MR MOPEDI: You became a full member in 1993, that is when you started to carry a weapon, is that what you are implying?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: Could you proceed in your own words and tell this forum the specific actions that you have done.

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I would say at joining the SDUs in 1993 guns were available in abundance, it was not the same as when it was formed, where streets had to be barricaded.  We now had information as to how we were being attacked and how to protect ourselves, and therefore we would launch an attack before they attacked us.  There were so many things that were happening between the years 1993 and 1994, things in which I was involved but I was involved in mainly two things.

MR MOPEDI: Who was your commander?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: When I arrived my commander was Sipho Ngubane and Mosa Msimango.

MR MOPEDI: The testimony or the evidence before this forum is at one stage Mfinos was also a commander, do  you know Mfinos?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: No, I don't know him.

MR MOPEDI: Sipho Ngubane, when was he a commander?  Could you clearly set out the period when he was a commander?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: He took over from Mfinos, he was Mosa's deputy.

MR MOPEDI: If I understand you properly, Sipho Ngubane was a deputy of Mosa Msimango?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct, he was his deputy but yes, he also issued out orders.

MR MOPEDI: Right, let's go to specific incidents, the acts that you have committed.

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: What I still remember is that the year was 1993 and there was this Johannesburg IFP meeting of the IFP.  I was sitting with people like Aubrey Maile, Sipho Mbatha and Tshabalala Sipho and as we were sitting we heard that the IFP members were going out to a rally.  We then had a discussion with Sipho and indicated that we should wait for them on their way back and shoot them at Khumalo Street on their way to the hostel, but then we did not know what time they were coming back.
	We then sent people like Aubrey and Tulani to go and investigate the route, make sure that there were no police and ISU on the route.  Yes, they came back and they told us everything is okay.  There were a handful of police and then Sipho and myself took two AK47s which were fully loaded and we put them in our sweater jackets.  
	We knew which routes to take in the townships and we took our short cuts to Khumalo Street and we arrived at the said house.  We positioned ourselves at a house that had been burnt down, awaiting all the taxis that were coming so that we could see them clearly as they were arriving.
	We spent about five minutes seeing these mini-buses arriving.  We ignored the first mini-bus that came but we shot at the second mini-bus that was full of passengers.  Later on we retreated, went back to our section.

MR MOPEDI: The kombi, how did you know that the kombi belonged to IFP members?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: The taxis in the township were now using different routes.  ANC or taxis belonging to ANC areas were using Polla Park and those areas and therefore it was well-known that any taxi that was taking the Khumalo road should be an IFP taxi.

MR MOPEDI: So if I understand you properly you shot people there?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: Did you kill anyone in that particular incident?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: I would not be sure, but the car that we fired at just grounded to a halt, it didn't move further until police came.

MR MOPEDI: So it is possible that someone might have been killed?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: And you say you were with Sipho  Tshabalala?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: Did he also shoot?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, he did fire shots.

MR MOPEDI: If I may find out from you, why was it necessary for you to go there and to shoot those people of Inkatha?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: It was necessary because we knew that each time they came back from the rally they would not go straight to the hostel, they would just go around shooting randomly.  To stop them from doing that we had to shoot them fist and if we had done that there would be soldiers around and they would not be able to attack us.

MR MOPEDI: And the occupants of this kombi that you referred to, do you know who were the occupants?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: No, I just knew they are Umzwebe(?).

MR MOPEDI: So if it is possible that you might have killed somebody, it means that you won't be in the position to tell this forum who you killed?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, I would not be in the position to tell the Committee that there was somebody that died and if there is I would not deny that.

MR MOPEDI: Alright, let us proceed.  Are there any other further incidents?