Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR WESSELS: I say maybe the others were asked to make statements. That you just did not hear because it is your evidence that you did not hear them instructing the others to make statements.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes I didn't hear anybody instructing the others to make statements because in the office it was only myself and Bra Mos.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wessels if I may know what is the version of General Kawe on these matters that you are cross-examining Mr Dandala on? I mean did he give instructions that only the applicant and Bra Mos should make the statement?

MR WESSELS: I was about to get to that stage where I will be putting General Kawe's version. I am just trying to understand what the applicant's version is before I deal with that Mr Chairman. My instructions from General Kawe regarding this matter is that he never spoke to you personally on your return after the shooting incident. Do you hear what I am saying?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes I hear what you saying. He spoke to me for the first time in Colonel Booi's office and after that we were taken to his office.

MR WESSELS: He will say if it becomes necessary for him to testify that he gave no such instructions as you claim that it was only you and Bra Mos that had to make statements.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: All I know is that it was only myself and Bra Mos in the office and he said only myself and Bra Mos who should make statements.

MR WESSELS: And Colonel Kawe will also deny that there was any suggestion of a case being destroyed or of a cover-up.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I wouldn't say that he said I must make statements myself and Bra Mos and then come back again and say it was only myself and Shabalala who was charged whereas nobody ever said that.

MR WESSELS: I must put it to you directly that General Kawe will deny that he was ever party to the cover-up of anything that had to do with the deceased death in this matter.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: If he denies that, that is his own business I didn't know that but all I know is that he said only myself and Bra Mos should make statements in order to destroy the case. And he further called me to his office and he said to me only myself and Shabalala would be charged whereas Shabalala never made any statement. Even there he said the intention of this was to destroy the case.

MR WESSELS: Regarding your appearance in the court did you appear directly for the first time in the Supreme Court without going through the process of first appearing in the Magistrate's Court?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I went straight to the Supreme Court.

MR WESSELS: Now you will know as a policeman that for a policeman to be charged it is a decision taken by the Attorney General. Are you aware of that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes I am very much aware of that.

MR WESSELS: And you will accept that once you had been charged and your case was before the courts your matter was then in the hands of the Attorney General.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR WESSELS: Will you also accept that under those circumstances General Kawe would have had no control over what may or may not have happened to you in the court process?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: What surprised me was that I rushed straight to the Supreme Court without going first to the Magistrate's Court in the hands of the Attorney General. All that indicates that there was a cover-up.

MR WESSELS: Are you suggesting that even the Attorney General was part of this cover-up

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I won't know that Sir.

MR WESSELS: Just one last matter that I want to touch on. I am not going to labour this aspect but an issue was made of the so-called underground unit. It is your evidence that General Kawe was aware of this unit?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR WESSELS: I have discussed this matter and I have taken instructions in this regard. My instructions from General Kawe is that there was no such unit as an underground unit described by yourself.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Sir there are other people that was in the underground unit who can support that statement that there was an underground unit.

MR WESSELS: It is not in dispute that various field officers from the security branch may have adopted different tactics in gathering information but the formation of an underground unit as you described it, a special unit that is specifically denied by General Kawe.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't know what he means if he denies that there was an underground unit because Mr Colonel Booi's office wasn't the head office. That is the office where we were reporting and he was sitting there with him. They were all together in the head office.

MR WESSELS: I want to suggest to you that there are possibly two explanations for this so-called underground unit. Firstly that you were acting under the misconception that you were part of a so-called underground group whereas in truth and in fact you were not part of such a group. That is the one possibility I am putting to you. Do you wish to comment on that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I said there is a group of people that I was working with in that underground unit who can also support that there was an underground unit and I was also part of that unit.

MR WESSELS: The other possibility that I am putting to you although this is a remote possibility a most improbable possibility and that is that your unit if there was such a unit was operating so clandestinely that not even the commander of the security branch is aware of that. And that is ridiculous. Would you agree?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Colonel Booi, who was our head he knows about it.

MR WESSELS: I want to suggest to you that your knowledge as it was possibly aptly described here as being shallow dealing when it came to important political matters speaks for itself that you could not have been part of a special underground unit.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I won't deny that but I was working for the underground unit. There is some information to support that.

MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman would you just bear with me a moment please? Thank you Mr Chairman that is all.

MR WESSELS: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wessels. Yes Mr Matuweni?

MR MATUWENI: Thank you Mr Chairman. Inspector Dandala similarly I am representing Colonel Booi and General Nkalitshana. I am neither supporting nor preventing or opposing your application. I am only going to cross-examine you regarding Colonel Booi whom you have mentioned in your evidence. Could I refer you to the bundle 17 to 18. At the time you made this statement there was no thought of amnesty. Is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR MATUWENI: The only think that could save your skin would be if you could allege that your shooting of Batandwa Ndondo was lawful in that he was escaping from a lawful arrest?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR MATUWENI: Is it then correct to assume that the other  ... is the picture. Isn't that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Are you talking about the affidavit?

MR MATUWENI: Yes the affidavit itself.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: In the affidavit it is exactly what happened. That is the truth. But in the first statement there are some distortions that were meant to cover up the situation, to destroy the case.

MR MATUWENI: It is not clear how the case would be destroyed by you being in fact charged and making a statement admitting the shooting. How would the case be destroyed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't know Sir how do they come up with that but it is what they said that they intend to destroy the case but I don't know in which manner. Perhaps that is why they said that myself and Bra Mos should make statements and they end up saying that myself and Shabalala should be charged.