Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-07

REV XUNDU: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Zanyiwe Angelina Nosisi Kakana, please stand up.

ZANYIWE ANGELINA NOSISI KAKANA: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

NOKUZOLA LENA "NONHI" KAKANA: (Duly sworn in, states).

BUTI JOHN KAKANA: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Mr Chairperson, they have been properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome the three of you.  I see that Wele Samuel Kakana is not here.  May we ask Mr Ntsiki Sandi to be the one leading you with questions on behalf of the Commission.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Kakana, as a family you took a decision that you are going to be the one who will give us a detailed background about the story.

MR KAKANA: Yes, that is so, but they will help me in certain things.

ADV SANDI: They will add to those you have, to those you forgot.

MR KAKANA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: But you are going to be the one who will tell us the whole story.  Let us start this way.  Mr Kakana, you were listening when Menzi's family was testifying here.

MR KAKANA: Yes, that is correct.

ADV SANDI: Before we deal with what they have said, where are you staying now?  Are you still in Cookhouse?

MR KAKANA: No, I am in Fort Beaufort now.

ADV SANDI: Where are you working?

MR KAKANA: I am a police, I started in 1988.

ADV SANDI: Where are you stationed?  Are you in Fort Beaufort?

MR KAKANA: I am here in Grahamstown.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.  I will hand over to you, Mr Kakana, without disturbing you.  I will hand over to you to tell us about the pain experienced in your family, because I see in the statement there are many people who died, who lost their lives in your family.  Please tell us, at this stage, what happened.

MR KAKANA: One of my family members was found in, near a soccer veld in 1985, but I do not remember the month.  He was stabbed and he died there.  We heard in the afternoon that the son was dead, he was stabbed.  We did not know who stabbed him.  Xolisile Stemele came and said we must open a case, but we did not know who stabbed him.  At the time of the funeral, we buried him.  Our church, our congregation, the Methodist Church did not take part in the funeral, but we, up until today we do not know the reason for that.
 As the time went by we stayed at home.  We did not isolate ourselves from the people, we were amongst the people in every activity in Cookhouse.  I did not belong to any other member, but what, the organisation I belonged to was the Resident's Organisation. We were playing rugby together with the men who testified before me.  We played for the same team, but I changed to another team.  The time went by. This incident happened when my mother's sister's son was killed.  After that there was this conflict.  There was no reason for that.  Nobody was asking questions, we were not asking questions to each other, but fortunately or unfortunately the wife of the man who testified before use to come to me, because I was selling veg.  She use to come to me for advice and I would give her advice, but this conflict came.  I heard that UDF and AZAPO were mentioned.  I was not a member of AZAPO.  If there were any AZAPO meetings, maybe they were held in Xhalanga's house.
 One teacher, Nyelake's teacher, was killed.  He was stabbed in the house.  After that he was taken out to be burnt.

ADV SANDI: Who killed this teacher?

MR KAKANA: I do not know, because at that time we were in our houses, but he was killed.  After that he was burnt.  After that we saw that the situation was bad, because if people are going to be burnt, the situation would be worse.  After that the incident of his wife happened. We were not present there.  Dickie, my sister's child, died that same day.  In that funeral, also, members of our congregation did not take part.  It was on the 26th of February when this incident happened.  On the ninth of March 1986 we left the township, we stayed in the tents.

ADV SANDI: Let me disrupt you, Mr Kakana.  You said that at the time when Mrs Menzi was killed, who was not present?

MR KAKANA: We were not present.

ADV SANDI: You, as a family of Kakana?

MR KAKANA: We were not present, but the rumours said that the Kakana family was in the shop to kill his wife.

ADV SANDI: Did you have a shop?

MR KAKANA: Yes, I had a shop, but people boycotted my shop.

ADV SANDI: I have some questions to ask you.  Is the lady next to you your mother?

MR KAKANA: She is my mother's sister.

ADV SANDI: In other words, do you mean that?

MR KAKANA: What I mean is the lady next to me is a wife to my father's brother.  Her husband died in the 1960's.

ADV SANDI: Was he there when this incident happened?

MR KAKANA: No.

ADV SANDI: What about Nokuzola?

MR KAKANA: Nokuzola is the daughter of the lady next to me.

ADV SANDI: For how long did you stay in Cookhouse?

MR KAKANA: I was born in Cookhouse, I went to school there.  My father was born in Fort Beaufort, but we were born in Cookhouse.

ADV SANDI: There was no conflict before.

MR KAKANA: Yes, there was no conflict before.

ADV SANDI: When you look at this matter, as I was reading in the statement, there are, this thing, this issue is very complex, but according to you, what is the main reason for all this?

MR KAKANA: This is very difficult, because I do not know what happened between Menzi's family and our family, because, as he mentioned, there was no conflict between us before.  We were playing rugby together, there was no quarrel between us, but something came between these two families and we had to sit down, we were supposed to sit down to try and avoid such incidents.

ADV SANDI: I noticed that there are many people who died during this conflict.  Who is Zolani Meko?

MR KAKANA: Zolani Meko is a grandchild of the lady next to me.

ADV SANDI: What about Batayi Kakana?

MR KAKANA: Batayi Kakana is also a family member.  We found him in Stilberg and we were forced to bury him there.  He was working in railway.  He was staying there in Kommadagha.  He was stabbed there.

ADV SANDI: Did he die at the time of this conflict?

MR KAKANA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: What about Weweyi Kakana?

MR KAKANA: Weweyi Kakana became a police, municipality, he was also killed.  It was during a Good Friday, if I am not mistaken, he was killed in the township.

ADV SANDI: What about Mpendulo Kakana?

MR KAKANA: Mpendulo Kakana was the one who was supporting the lady next to me.  He was looking after her and after her sister.

ADV SANDI: Is there any other name of the people who died of which we do not have her name or his name?

MR KAKANA: Yes, if I am not mistaken, there were six people who died.  One of them was tortured and he was burnt in Bedford, Mbulelo Kakana.

ADV SANDI: Let us wait, Mr Kakana.  You mentioned Mbulelo Kakana.

MR KAKANA: Yes.  Mbulelo Kakana was burnt in Bedford.

ADV SANDI: At the beginning, Mr Kakana, you said that there was something that led to all this conflict, you were supposed to sit down and talk about this.  What did you mean about this?

MR KAKANA: What I meant is we were supposed to sit down and resolve this matter, because Mr Menzi has already said that he did not have anything against Kakana's family.  This was due to Xhalanga's family and people thought that the family was included in all this.

ADV SANDI: What meeting was held in Xhalanga?

MR KAKANA: I do not know, I just heard about this today.

ADV SANDI: In your statement you mentioned that you would like the Commission to help people to forgive each other in such situations.  Can you please tell us exactly what you meant about this.