Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:  No, there was no court hearing.  The court hearing only happened during the time when he had been arrested.  There was a time when they were arresting him.  They had assaulted him.  They arrested him and said he had eight charges.  But he was acquitted on all of them because he had not done anything, he was sleeping at home, but they said he had burnt some houses.  They met him walking with a girl from Makanya whose name was Zanele.  They were just selling clothing in the streets.  One Inkatha man arrived.  He said this Dlamini child they must arrest him because he had burnt people's houses.  That's when he was arrested, and that's when he was assaulted a lot.  And I laid a charge against the police, but nothing happened up until he died.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: (Inaudible) ... about his shooting.

WITNESS:   No, there wasn't.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: Thank you.  Khumbulani was very young.  When he was shot was he still at school or had he left school?

WITNESS:  He was doing standard 10 at Sibusisiwe.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: Was he involved in any politics, any organisations?  Did he belong to any of them?

WITNESS:   He was UDF, and then when the ANC was unbanned in 1990 he became an ANC.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: (Inaudible) ... two sons, what are they doing now?

WITNESS:   One is studying at Umbumbulu College.  He's in his second year.  The other one is not working, he's at home.  He has passed standard 10, but he is just at home.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: (Inaudible) ... you, are you employed or are you staying at home?

WITNESS:   I am working as a part-time at Savell's.  I am not working.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: Thank you.  Just one last question before I hand this back to the Chairperson.  If the Commission was able to be of help to you what would you like to see them do?

WITNESS:   I don't know who killed my child.  If I can know that.  Because even those who used to assault my children every night I don't know who they are.  I want to know them.

MR LAX: Mrs Msisazwe, you said that during one of the raids on your house by soldiers they left a torch behind.  Were you ever able to charge anybody, or follow up on who that torch belonged to, or use it in some way so that you could use it as proof of who had come to your house and done these things?

WITNESS:   Sorry, I did not hear the question well. I'll repeat the question.  It relates to this torch, and whether you were ever able to use it as some kind of evidence as to who it belonged to?   ---   Yes, I found this torch on the day my children had been assaulted.  They said the police had left it behind.  We took it as evidence at that time when we were making the court interdict.

KHOZA MGOJO: There is somewhere in your statement where you said at the time when the boys were taken by SADF and they had covered themselves with Balaclavas, when they came closer to the vans there was a man who knew you.  Is this Detective Mbele still there?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is he still at Amanzimtoti?

WITNESS:   Yes, he's still there.  I am not sure if he is still working there.

KHOZA MGOJO: And he took all the details from all these?

WITNESS:   Yes, the children said so.  I wasn't there, but my children said so.

KHOZA MGOJO: Have you not met this Mr Mngadi after that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I met him.

KHOZA MGOJO: And he said he knew them?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

MR DLAMINI: Just one question.   Mrs Msisazwe, among these police who were making a laughing stock about killing your child do you know their names?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know them because they were just passing on a van. What happened on the day that my child was killed, they were just passing along the street.  Others at night, as there were other mourners who were together, the soldiers arrived and everybody who was in the house screamed.  People were running away because they thought these soldiers were still coming to shoot them, because people were scared.  That is what happened, but I just didn't see who they were.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Msisazwe, the other detective who you said assisted you, Detective Sergeant Hlabanyane, was he from Amanzimtoti?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was a detective at Amanzimtoti.  I am not sure if he is still working there now.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... SAP.

WITNESS:   He was a detective at Amanzimtoti.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... he was assaulted in KwaMakutha.  Was that by - was he assaulted by members of the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Yes, he said so.  When he was relating to me he said he was assaulted by the ZP on that very day, on the 9th of April 1990.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... when there were a lot of policemen going from house ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 4)