Special Hearings — Prison Hearings — 1997-07-21

MR P NAIDOO: It was probably the most worst period of my life because I had broken and I had given names, I really felt ashamed that I had done that.  There were two electric wires that were sticking out of the ceiling and I was thinking how to get there because of what I'd thought I'd done, I'd given names of comrades who trusted and worked with me but those wires were too high.  I was then left in the cell for a few days and one morning I was taken from my cell and I was chained, leg irons and handcuffed and taken to John Vorster Square.  They didn't tell me where they were taking me and on the way I saw a placard that said, Detainee Found Hanged in Cell.  I didn't know how to feel, I didn't know who this person was but when I saw this I felt close to the person who had died in the cell.
 They took me to the tenth floor, they took me to a room and there must have been about ten security policemen in the room, I was still handcuffed and chained.  They then brought my wife into the room, they were abusive to my wife and to me and they told my wife if she said anything other than personal matters, they would detain her and lock her up.  That meeting lasted for about five minutes, it was the first time that I'd seen a family member.
 They then took me back to Vereeniging Police Station and at Vereeniging Police Station I asked the warder who had died?  The next morning, Saturday morning he brought me a Citizen and I saw it was comrade Neil Agget.  I didn't know comrade Neil Agget at the time but reading the story of Neil Agget I was convinced in my mind that the same team that had interrogated me, had interrogated Neil Agget.  I would like the Truth Commission to investigate that because during my interrogation they sometimes made mention of the fact of interrogating a White man in the room.  After my detention when I put things together I was strongly of the view that it was possibly the same team, some of those names that I have mentioned.
 I was sentenced to eighteen months for harbouring and assisting in the leaving of the country of Steven Lee.  I didn't serve my sentence with political prisoners, I was brought here to the this very prison The Johannesburg Fort and I served my sentence with common-law prisoners.  
 The beatings that had taken place between common-law prisoners and common-law prisoners made me sick.  I believe that they put myself and comrade Sherish amongst common-law prisoners because they felt that they would mess us up but fortunately the common-law prisoners respected us and they never touched us. The infighting amongst common-law prisoners and what warders were doing to prisoners was terrible.  
 On one occasion in this very prison, one prisoner had assaulted another prisoner and the authorities opened the door and  let out all the prisoners but they took myself and Sherish and they put us into another cell.  They stripped the common-law prisoners stark naked.  There must have been about sixty of eighty of them and made them take out all their belongings in the cell so that the cell was empty and they then put about two or three millimetres of  water in the cell.  The warders, I don't know how many, maybe ten or twelve, then formed two lines and they asked the prisoners to run into the cell,  they formed this line between the doors of the cell.  They were all naked and they all had to run back into the cell and as they ran they used to hit them with a donkey piel.  They didn't do this to myself and Sherish as we were taken out and put into another cell.  When these common-law prisoners came back into the cell they couldn't sit because there was water in the cell, nothing else, and they would lock them up and leave them like that for the whole night.  I served the last part of my sentence at the new Johannesburg Prison.  
 I think we as a family are not the only family who suffered this kind of abuse and indignation as there are many comrades who are here today with families and friends who walked with us side by side and they too had suffered similar.  We would like the Truth Commission to investigate the human rights abuses against our family and other people who spent their lives in prison.  
 We would also like the Truth Commission to investigate as Indres pointed out, many of our documents and treasured possessions from our families has been taken over the years, some were telegrams of the death of my grandfather.  These were very valuable to the family and to this date we don't know where these documents are and we have never ever seen them.  I would like the Truth Commission to investigate that, thank you very much.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much Prema.  Ramnie you're not going to ...  Mr Chairman I don't really have any questions because I mean we've had a litany of, I've just been making a note of the number of prisons and it's virtually a litany of the prisons in South Africa.  We've heard of Barberton this morning but every other one from Robben Island to Leeuwkop to Pretoria Central, Pretoria Central Female's Jail, Roeland Street, Compal, The Greys, John Vorster Square, Modder Bee and then Sun City between you, you have populated them all.
 I would just like to ask one question because it is very germane to what we're looking at today in terms of the prisons. Your joint experience has involved a great deal of mishandling in the hands of the security and you have also been in the hands of prison officials, what we now call correctional services.  In your joint experience, do you think there was ever any difference between the way that you were treated for instance by security police and prison warders?

MR P NAIDOO: There was an obvious glaring similarity between the way the police treated us and the prison authorities as they treated us equally as badly.

MR LEWIN: So when you arrived at a prison as a detainee before you were sentenced, was the treatment the same, did you see a collusion between the police and prison ...? (tape blank)

MR I NAIDOO: In fact there was no difference whatsoever, you first landed up in the hands of the security police who did what they wanted to do.  In our case we were detained at The Fort, fortunately for us while we were detained at The Fort we were under medical treatment.  I had a bullet in my hand, I had a couple of ribs broken.  Reggie Vandia had his right hand broken and a couple of ribs broken. Sherish Nanabai had lots of injuries and our lawyers insisted that we remain in hospital here at The Fort but conditions were the same.
 Prema has highlighted the question of the common-law prisoners.  On Robben Island we found a similar situation where the bulk of the political prisoners were mixed with common-law prisoners.  These common-law prisoners were hardened common-law prisoners who were serving one life, two life, three life, four life sentences and their only ambition in life was to escape from the prison, knowing they would come back again.   Their intention was to get us down to the same level as the common-law prisoners.  As Prema says many of them were very sympathetic, some of them in fact joined the various movements and their whole tactic of trying to dehumanize us through the common-law prisoners completely backfired.
 One other point I'd like to make, while we talked of our grandfathers, of our fathers and ourselves we all forgot to mention one generation that comes after us ... (interrupted)

MR LEWIN: Yes I see ...

MR I NAIDOO: Prema's eldest son who in fact is the fourth generation in the family was detained in 198...

MR LEWIN: '87 you say in your statement.

MR P NAIDOO: Even the fourth generation have been fully in the struggle and they're all active today with the ANC Youth League and the various youth movements.