Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-05

ADV DE JAGER: Wasn't it then in 1998, wasn't it April 1998 before this matter was put down for hearing on the 20th of April?

MR ZILWA: I am sorry, could you repeat that?

ADV DE JAGER: Was this affidavit signed on the 1 April 1998, for the hearing which was due to start on the 20 April 1998?

MR ZILWA: In fact that is quite correct.  As you will see in the portion dealing, in the attestation portion, it says and signed before me at Umtata this - day of - 1998, it was in fact as I say in the date stamp impression, all that appears is the 1 April, but then the year is not very clear on the papers which we have before us.  	This affidavit which was made only in preparation for this hearing, was in fact in April 1998.  As it appears in the attestation portion of the document.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Smuts, have you got any objections to ...

MR SMUTS: : No Mr Chairman, the objection of the victims to the application is not based on any technicalities.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Mr Chairman, I have no objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's start with the evidence and see how far we get with the technicalities then.

MR ZILWA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, could I request that the second applicant, Mlulamisi Maxhayi, I don't know if it is practice that he should first be sworn in?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Are you ready to start?

MR ZILWA: I am in fact ready to start.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Maxhayi, what language would you prefer to use?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Oh, I prefer to use English.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you comfortable with English?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please be seated.

MR ZILWA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Maxhayi, is it correct that you are the applicant in this application for amnesty, relating to the murders of the victims Alistair and Glen Weakley and the other victims of the incident of Port St Johns in respect of which you are asking for amnesty?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: That is correct.

MR ZILWA: Now, is it correct that you are a teacher by profession?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: And where is your home?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: My home is at Flagstaff.

MR ZILWA: Are you a member of any political organisation?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: Which organisation is that?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: I am a member of the ANC, ANC Youth League, Communist Party of South Africa.

MR ZILWA: Yes.  When did you commence your membership of such organisations which you have just mentioned?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: I started to be a full member of the ANC in 1990.

MR ZILWA: In the organisation that you have just mentioned, do you hold any particular position of authority or of leadership?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, at the time I was not yet convicted, I was serving in the organisation at some portfolios.

MR ZILWA: In the ANC for instance, which portfolio were you holding?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: In the ANC, I was the Secretary of my Branch in 1990.

MR ZILWA: Yes, in fact in paragraph 3 of your affidavit in support of your application, you mention that from 1990 you were serving on the Executive Committee of the ANC Youth League at Flagstaff, is that correct?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, it is correct.

MR ZILWA: Now, in the Communist Party, did you hold any position of leadership?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: No, I was just a mere member in the Communist Party.

MR ZILWA: I see.  And I also see at paragraph 4, of your affidavit, you mention that you were later elected as the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League sub-regional Executive which composed of four districts which you have mentioned in your affidavit, is that correct?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, that is correct.

MR ZILWA: Right.  Now, relating to the events that relate to the incident in question, could you in your own words give this Honourable Committee a background of the events that preceded the commission of the offences in respect of which you are asking for amnesty?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, I can.

MR ZILWA: Yes, can you please do so.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: The matter started on the day when comrade Chris Hani was assassinated, that is on the 10th of April 1993.
	On the 11th, I met with my co-comrades, whom were serving as Self Defence Units at Flagstaff.  The name of the comrade was Vuyani Nyalukana.  We discussed the issue of the assassination of comrade Chris Hani together.
	And then we resolved that we should take the retaliation, we should avenge for comrade Chris.  It is then that we came up with a conclusion that we should go to Port St Johns where we had had an information that there was infiltration there by the counter-revolutionary forces.
	We decided to reinforce us with another comrade, Lungile Mazwi, who is also an applicant.

MR ZILWA: Sorry, Mr Maxhayi, let me disturb you just for a moment.  You mentioned that it had been brought to your attention that at Port St Johns there were some counter-revolutionary forces, can you expand a bit on that?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Okay.  At the time I was serving as the ANC Youth League sub-regional Chairperson, which was composed of Lusikisiki, Flagstaff, Bizana and Port St Johns.  We had an agreement as the comrades who were forming up that sub-region, that in our respective Branches, we should organise ourselves into Self Defence Units, because during those days, it was the time when one was hearing about the Third Force, it was the time when one was aware that the government of the time, was not willing to free this country.
	There were delays during the negotiations, people were dying, so there was a need therefore for us in our respective areas, to organise ourselves, because we knew that there was a counter-revolutionary element in South Africa.  So as member of a revolutionary force, the ANC Youth League, we decided then to organise ourselves in Self Defence Units.
	The comrades from Port St Johns, reported the issue to the sub-regional Executive, which was composed of the  Self Defence Units, that there at Port St Johns, they are operating under a threat, they are suspecting that whites there, had infiltrated their area.  Then they wanted us to be aware of that as the Self Defence Unit at sub-regional level.
	Now, we told them to go and investigate the thing so that they can come up with a concrete information, so that we can transmit or convey it to the upper bodies of the ANC or the ANC, or the MK Commanders who were deployed in our areas, whom we were working hand in hand.
	So it was during the time that we were waiting for them to come up with the concrete evidence as to what is really happening there, so that we can submit a concrete information to the upper brass, to the top brass of the ANC.
	It was during that time that comrade Chris Hani was assassinated.  Then at Flagstaff then, as we had heard that information, we decided to take Port St Johns as our first area of operation.  That is the reason we went to Port St Johns.

MR ZILWA: In other words, if I understand you correctly, Port St Johns was an area which, according to the information you had received, had these counter-revolutionary elements as you put it, and you decided that in retaliation for the assassination of Chris Hani, it was an appropriate place?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Zilwa, maybe we must establish first whether these actions amounted to retaliation or revenge.

MR ZILWA: I assume you have understood that Mr Maxhayi, could you respond to that?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: We wanted to retaliate.

MR ZILWA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  What was the real reason for your retaliation, were you aiming to achieve anything by such retaliation or what were your objectives really in such retaliation?