Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-15

MR LEWIN: And can you confirm that there was - at the time you didn't do anything else, you didn't try and investigate what had happened.  You waited until your seniors came.
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CAPT KEKANE: I didn't do anything except only calling the police because I was so shocked.  I thought what happened to this man might also happen to me.  I was the only policeman at the scene at that time.

MR LEWIN: Did the car look as though it had been attacked?

CAPT KEKANE: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Can you explain why.

CAPT KEKANE: It had bullet holes.

MR LEWIN: But at that stage you didn't investigate the bullet holes.

CAPT KEKANE: No, I didn't investigate.

MR LEWIN: So was the car engine for instance still running?

CAPT KEKANE: No, it was not running.

MR LEWIN: No lights on?

CAPT KEKANE: No, the lights were not on.

MR LEWIN: And was this T-junction where the car was, was it the sort of place where someone or some people could have stopped it and attacked it?

CAPT KEKANE: According to the way it was parked I don't think people stopped it, no.  He was parking his car in that fashion waiting for me.

MR LEWIN: So you think the car had already stopped before it was attacked.

CAPT KEKANE: That is correct.

MR LEWIN: And was there any indication either then or later in the investigations as to how many people might have attacked the car?

CAPT KEKANE: It would be impossible for me to give an answer to that.  We didn't see anything.

MR LEWIN: Could the two people in the car both have been killed by just one person acting alone?
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CAPT KEKANE: I think so because the bullet holes were only on the one side of the car.

MR LEWIN: And do you think that you were the first person to have come onto the car after the attack?  Was it a time when there would have been other traffic?

CAPT KEKANE: I do not know. I am only telling you that the first policeman to arrive there was myself.  People were there but far away from the place.

MR LEWIN: And I would like to confirm, you said that you had arranged with Lieutenant Fourie to meet at that point.

CAPT KEKANE: That is correct.

MR LEWIN: So he was in fact driving to the spot where he expected to meet you.

CAPT KEKANE: That is correct.

MR LEWIN: Could you explain to us Mrs Fourie said that her impression was that he had been given a radio instruction and the place of the meeting point had been changed.

CAPT KEKANE: That is not correct.  We set an appointment to meet at the T-junction and it was agreed that when he arrived in Seobuswa he would give me a call so that we meet at the T-junction.  We didn't set any other place.

MR LEWIN: And that discussion between you and Lieutenant Fourie took place on the radio did it?

CAPT KEKANE: That is correct.

MR LEWIN: Please explain to those of us who don't know how radios work, police radios work, I want to contact you or you want to contact me on the radio, how does that actually happen.

CAPT KEKANE: It happens when we use one channel. If he wants to contact me we have to use one channel.  If he wants to speak with someone who has got a different channel he
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will have to change his channel to that person he wants to contact.

MR LEWIN: And who has access to that channel, I mean who could hear when you are talking to him and he is talking to you can anybody else hear?

CAPT KEKANE: Except the policemen, nobody else. And except the fact that the channels are between the two of us, nobody else can hear.

MR LEWIN: So who would have known that Lieutenant Fourie was going to meet you at that particular T-junction?  Who else could have known?

CAPT KEKANE: Nobody else would know, it was myself and himself.

MR LEWIN: How do you think he was killed then?

CAPT KEKANE: I do not know how was he killed.

MR LEWIN: Do you think it was a pure accident?

CAPT KEKANE: I do not know, maybe he was under surveillance.  Maybe they were following him but I do not know but he used to attend their meetings.

MR LEWIN: Who is they?  Sorry, can you explain.

CAPT KEKANE: He used to go to meetings with policemen to be the security at the meeting.  It doesn't mean he was part of the meeting.  He used to be there to keep observation for the people attending a meeting.

MR LEWIN: Yes, but you have spent some time telling us how
there was an incident that you wanted investigated, you spoke to him and he was going off to investigate that.  So he wasn't at a meeting.

CAPT KEKANE: That is correct.

MR LEWIN: So how long was it between the time that you spoke to him and made the arrangement to meet at the T
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junction and when you actually arrived at the T-junction itself?

CAPT KEKANE: I think I took 15 minutes.

MR LEWIN: So he wouldn't have had time to go to any meeting in between.

CAPT KEKANE: No, he wouldn't be in a position to go to any meeting because when we talked he said to me when I arrive in Seobuswa I will contact you and he said after an hour I will be at Seobuswa and I will contact you.  Leave Denalton, go for the place of the meeting.

MR LEWIN: So if he was not being under surveillance from people at a meeting have you any other ideas for how people would have known that he would get and wait at that T-junction?

CAPT KEKANE: I don't think there was anybody who knew that we were going to meet.  This was just an unexpected incident.

MR LEWIN: But you knew.

CAPT KEKANE: What did I know?

MR LEWIN: You knew that he was going to be waiting for you at the T-junction.

CAPT KEKANE: Yes, I knew that he was going to wait for me.

MR LEWIN: In the investigations that have taken place subsequently has there been any theory put forward as to who was responsible for this attack?

CAPT KEKANE: I do not know who might be carrying the responsibility of killing him.

MR LEWIN: You have no idea yourself?

CAPT KEKANE: I don't have an idea.

MR LEWIN: Thanks, Mr Chairman.

RUSSELL ALLY: Captain Kekane, I just have two or three questions
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please.  What reputation did Lieutenant Fourie have amongst his police officers and in the area?  Was he a popular person, unpopular person?

CAPT KEKANE: Are you referring to the police themselves or the community?

RUSSELL ALLY: Both.

CAPT KEKANE: They all loved him.  But within the police force everybody loved him except Masiza.

RUSSELL ALLY: This incident happened at night when you phoned Mr Fourie and you set up a time to meet him.

CAPT KEKANE: I didn't set the time.  He set the time.  And I didn't ask him to come here.

RUSSELL ALLY: But it was at night.

CAPT KEKANE: Yes, it was at night.

RUSSELL ALLY: Is that unusual?  I mean you have a situation where there is unrest, it is ten o'clock at night or nine o'clock at night, and to do an investigation at that time of the night.

CAPT KEKANE: We were used to such activities but it depended on the person in charge.  There was a night duty police who I wanted and he said no I will personally come.  It was our usual thing.

RUSSELL ALLY: Having driven up and down this road to Denalton in the last few days the T-junction that you are talking about is a fair distance from where people live.  There are some shops and a taxi rank on the one side, on the other side there is very little, if I remember rightly.  So in your drive through to meeting Mr Fourie was there any unrest taking place in any of the townships along the way?

CAPT KEKANE: There were no unrests on that day.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.
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