Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

CHAIRPERSON: Bulukazi George.  Georgina Nomvuyo Magai Marai. Bulukazi George, Georgina Nomvuyo Marai.  What is your name Sir.

CHIEF MARAI: I'm Chief.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: (sworn states)

CHIEF MARAI: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mrs George, what is your clan name ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: .MAXENE(?).......................

MR SANDI: I thought you were going to say you don't have a clan name because of your surname.  Thank you.  You have told us about the disorder that was in your area at that time.  If you could give us a picture.

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: It was in 1985, August, it was 85, August.  It was the 15th.  I was at work, when I got home my child had already left.  The previous day when he was trying to go to school, he realized that there was  disorder.  He  concluded that  he was not going to go to school that  particular day because there was a boycott on.  I used to, I'd ask him to plant flowers for me.  I told him that my parents were going to come and if they do come, he must phone me.  They came at  about 10, he phoned.  I told him to take them to town by the OK's, I'd meet them there.  I'd leave my work at 12, at 11 I asked them to leave the house and go and meet me at the OK's.  I was going to help my parents with their bank accounts in town.  At 12 I started walking down.  When I started walking down.  When I got towards the OK I saw my parent towards, at the Allied , standing there with a child from our neighbours.  I asked my parents when, where Thembelakhe was.  They said that the police had taken him.  The police came, apparently, when he was giving them tea.  Apparently they pushed him out of the house and left with him.

MR SANDI: Excuse me Ma'am.  You say that there was a boycott and, were the children at home ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: Yes, they were at home, they did not go to school.

MR SANDI: And then the police came to fetch these children ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: Yes.

MR SANDI: What happened to the child.  Was he taken to hospital ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: I did not go on the Thursday to check the child, I went on the second day.  I went at 7 in the morning.  For about 2 hours I was given no direction about my child.  I said I'd brought him food and clothing.  They said that he was full.  He'd taken porridge and coffee.  I phoned to pass on a message that my husband should go to the police and find out what's happening.  The next door neightbour's child said that somebody from Grey hospital phoned.  They did not know who it was that called.  The call said that my son was in Grey Hospital.  I went there, he was indeed there.  I was told that I could  not see  my  child.  I  don't  remember the nurse's name.  I insisted that I was going to go, my child belonged to me, not to the police.  I went in.  The police were standing above my child.  The police said that I cannot go in because I'd put him in trouble.  I insisted, I wanted to know how my child was and what had happened.  The policeman refused.  A nurse and a doctor came in.  They said that my child has been transferred to East London.  I was asked to stand at the side.  After a short while they got out.  I tried to call out to my son, he could not speak, he did not respond.  His hands looked paralyzed.  I called out to him, he had a scar, he'd, I could see there was internal bleeding on the forehead.  He wet himself, when the ambulance stopped that was going to transfer him to, to East London, because I said I'd go with him so that when I get to East London  I could align myself with my family, I had family in East London.   At that moment my child died.  They'd taken him on the Thursday, he died on the Friday.

MR SANDI: Did you consult any attorneys ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: Yes, van Heerden but Smith is the man who was handling the whole case.

MR SANDI: Did they get the details.

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: No.  The case did not go far.  We did not even get a death certificate because the police said, un.. (.....industinct) the police said that I would get the death certificate from the attorneys.

MR SANDI: Therefore the attorneys did not go far as you said.

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: No, they didn't.  When I'd ask for Smith, I would be told that he wasn't, he's not there, every time I went there.

MR SANDI: So you buried the child while...

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: It  was  difficult  to  prepare  for  the funeral because it came suddenly.  We had no money.

MR SANDI: Were the police present at the funeral ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: They did not do anything funny at the funeral.  What they did is they tried to stop my stepchildren to attend the funeral.  They were asked how they were related to us.

MR SANDI: The story is sad Ma'am, where your child is taken,  making tea at home.  I trust that by divulging this information to us heals at least some of the pain.  What would be your requests to the President ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: The pain will never subside.  My mother died immediately  after  that.

MR SANDI: Maybe you may have requests that you can take before the State President.

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: Well, I cannot ask for anything in particular, but if there's any compensation, I will accept it.

MR SANDI: Do you have a tombstone ?

BULUKAZI ELSIE GEORGE: No, we do not have money.

MR SANDI: Thank you.  Maybe after I finish the gentleman next to you, you, maybe you'll be asked questions by the Chairperson.  Chief Marai, what are you ?

CHIEF MARAI: I'm Sotho.

MR SANDI: Please tell us briefly, what is it that you would like to say before the Commission  ?

CHIEF MARAI: I think my mother gave in her statement.  I don't think it will differ much from what I'm going to say, because I was the one who told them everything in 1982 when I was in Lesotho.  This happened at night.  My brother also got hurt there.  My  brother  was  beaten  that night when I found out that he'd been beaten up there by the soldiers.  I'm not going to say much and say, because I saw those people.  The house that I lived in  was close to the road.  We heard bullet sounds, bombs.  In the flat that we stayed in, we heard something flying, it sounded like a helicopter.  After it had passed on, our Landlord came and said that we should not get out.

MR SANDI: Were these men in exile ?

CHIEF MARAI: Yes, they were.
(  The speaker's mike is not on.)

MR SANDI: Was this man, did he live there ?

CHIEF MARAI: He was in exile, he as member of the ANC.

MR SANDIU: Therefore he was just in exile there?

CHIEF MARAI: Yes, he was.  That's how he died, yes.

MR SANDI: They were buried ?

CHIEF MARAI: Yes, in December.

MR SANDI: Was he buried at the Hero's Acre ?

CHIEF MARAI: Yes, they were buried in Lesotho.

MR SANDI: Was Mr Thembo at the funeral ?

CHIEF MARAI: Yes, he was.

MR SANDI: How should your family be helped ?  Did this, did he have children?

CHIEF MARAI: No, he didn't, but he was still at school.

MR SANDI: Who supports your mother ?

CHIEF MARAI: She's on pension but she left for Cape Town on Friday.  I thought I should come here, as I was present in Lesotho.

MR SANDI: Your request ?

CHIEF MARAI: I never thought about it, but a parent gets something from his or her own child but my parents did not get that chance because my bother was taken away.

MR SANDI: Thank you, Sir.  I'll hand over to you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairperson, you seem very kind to-day, this afternoon, for giving me the opportunity to thank these people.