Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

WITNESS:   Amabutho are the people who are armed, armed to go to the battle.  When people are armed they arm themselves with weapons.  It could be spears, it could be axes, and also guns, because now people are fighting with guns as well.  They usually are male, because women are never usually there, and even on that day there were no women, there were only men. Dumisani, according to the Natal speak(?) do you think these amabutho are another political organisation?  ---   Yes, I do believe that, that they are part of a political organisation.

KHOZA MGOJO: Could you say which organisation?

WITNESS:   This is IFP.  At that time we were calling it amabutho - Inkatha, sorry.

KHOZA MGOJO: Here I found that your brother who was hit - where is your brother now, and what is his condition, Sithembiso?

WITNESS:   He is here in this very house.  He wasn't very much hurt, because on that day - it was in 1987.  It was on a Sunday morning.  On that day I was getting ready to go, and some boys came to me and said, "Hau, here is your brother.  Here is your brother.  The councillor wants to take him with."  He was with other two - this councillor was with other two men.  When this happened they had already started assaulting him.  I ran towards them.  They were not hitting him with weapons, they were just hitting him with their hands.  And I asked them, "Guys, since you know Zulu the know the Phungula family.  If there is something that this child has done why don't you come at home?"  They seemed to be sort of doubtful, and the councillor came out.  He said, "If this matter is - this guy is getting involved in this matter let us leave it.  This issue is heavy."  And then they started running away.  I think their intention was to take him away with him.  I don't know what were they going to do to him, but I don't think it was a good thing they were going to do to him.

KHOZA MGOJO: And in your statement you said amabutho and SADF they disturbed the funeral.

WITNESS:   The funeral did go  ahead.  Maybe if I can go a bit back.  Since the time when

KHOZA MGOJO: they attack our home generally there's usually a night vigil, which starts when there's been a death in the family.  At home there were telephones that people were making us call, and these were threatening calls that there will never be a funeral there, and they are still going to come back to attack us.  But on that day we had already told ourselves - we had told ourselves that if they were not satisfied with what they had already done let them go ahead, these boers.  So it became difficult for them to come during that time.  I think these threats continued throughout that week, and then on the day of this funeral I went to church.  I couldn't go to the cemetery because I was told that the amabuthos are already at F, because we live in the E section, but the cemetery is at the F section - that it is not safe for me to go ahead to the cemetery, to the graveyard.  So I wasn't able to proceed to the graveyard, but those who went to the graveyard, many people were hurt and injured on that day because they were assaulted, and the soldiers were also shooting at people who were from the funeral.  And there was also tear gas as well.  They threw tear gas at people.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was the organisation that your family was involved in, or maybe you were not involved in it?

WITNESS:  I can't say now our family at that time, but I myself was a member of the KwaMashu Youth League.  The KwaMashu Youth League was affiliated to the United Democratic Front.

KHOZA MGOJO: Here in KwaMashu when did you leave and went to Newlands?

WITNESS:   At KwaMashu we haven't left.  My mother is still living at KwaMashu.  I am the one who is no longer living at home, because as my mother said I am already married.  I have got my own home.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  The last question, your wish, what would you want to see the Commission do for you?

WITNESS:   According to me, but maybe my mum will have something else to say.  I would like to get clarity on who were these people who were doing these things, because according to me the soldiers were implicated, and the police in these matters.  I am a bit confused there.  Even the case, we reported it but it just evaporated.  There was never any investigation that was pursued, even though things were very clear.  I would really like to see something happening.  These people who are the perpetrators must come forth and say where they are.  I don't know if my mum would like to say something.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mama, what would you like to say?

WITNESS:   I would also like to know who are these people who did this thing, because it didn't end in 1986.  In 1987 they threatened my children to an extent that they couldn't walk freely.  They took Sithembiso twice and arresting him, where he was assaulted by police until his ear drum burst.  At the moment one of his ears is deaf, it can't hear.  And Sipho also was arrested.  They said there were lots of bombs at home.  They came with one bomb and said there was another nine bombs at home.  There were about 12 vans.  There were also dogs, police dogs, who had come to sniff out these bombs.  I said they must search around.  They looked around and they said to me no, I must uncover these bombs.  So I said, "No, you go ahead, look, because you are the ones who know where these bombs are."  They went to fetch the dogs.  The dogs ran around, but they didn't find anything, but they still took Sipho.  They took him to another Ticky's friend.  They said he must show them where Ticky stays in Inanda.  Where they lied them down and assaulted them while they were lying them down.   From there they took them to Phoenix Police Station, and then they brought them back again and brought them to KwaMashu.  That's where Sipho was saved, because my employer at that stage asked them - he asked the station commander, saying, "Could you tell me what is his charge?"  If he doesn't tell them what Sipho's charge was he will go ahead.  That's how Sipho was released that day.  One of the guys who he was arrested with stayed in detention for 18 months.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you, Mama.  We have heard all those things.  We were asking you what would you like to say?  Maybe I must remind you of something else you have already forgotten, because we want to help you.  In your statement you said Dumisani said he wants his mother and his brother's wife who was killed to be on pension.  I would like to know does your brother's wife work, or how old is she?  (Pause)  Maybe, Mama, you didn't hear well.  The statement says here, written by Dumisani, "My mother and the wife of my brother."  Those are Dumisani's words.

WITNESS:  I think there's been a mistake then.  My brother was not married at that stage when I was married, so it means there's a mistake here.

KHOZA MGOJO: So you would like your mum to get a pension.  I was just reminding you.

WITNESS:   Yes, I would greatly appreciate that, because it's very difficult for me to be a sole breadwinner, because these boys are not working.  It's very difficult to find employment.  And the other one is still trying to get - he's going to take you to try and  /get

KHOZA MGOJO: get employment.  On these things that I am trying I am trying to educate the other ones.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you, Mama.  We will try and pass on your request.  Thank you.  I will hand over.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama and your son, we thank you very much for your being here.  We are saying may God console you in the difficulties you have been through.  As already Dr Mgojo has said that the Commission hasn't got lots of powers, but there are things that we could plan, or maybe tell the President of this country that we are saying, "Perhaps here and there you could do this to help the victims."  We will do that and pass on forward your wishes.  Thank you very much.

DR BORAINE: Can you hear my voice?