Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes, at the time when they were picking us at our homes they said that we killed two policemen in Highway.  They said that these police were killed when people were coming from Steve Biko's funeral and I was not in that funeral.  I was attending church on that day.

ADV SANDI: When they picked all of you in the community, as the youth, what happened?  Did they take you to the police station?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: We were taken to the police station.

ADV SANDI: What happened to you in police station?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: When we got to the police station they started assaulting me, because I said to them we were tired, we needed to sit down.  In the police station I asked them to give us chairs, because we were tired.  They beat me and they kicked me.

ADV SANDI: Were you found guilty in the Court of Law for taking part in murdering the two policemen?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: We went to the Court of Law and the case was postponed.  I think that it was postponed, because they wanted us to get better, because we were swollen.  If our family members would come and visit us they would not be allowed to see us.  They would be sent to different police stations.

ADV SANDI: When did this stop?  Did your family members see you while you were detained?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: No, they were not allowed to come in, but after a while I was having black spots in my face. It was difficult for me to tell my family members that I have, I was swollen and I had a difficult with my left ear.

ADV SANDI: Did you go to any attorney after you were released?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: No, because of the situation at that time.  If we would go to a lawyer or to lay a charge you would be killed.  I decided not to go to any attorneys.

ADV SANDI: Before we go to Mr Sibewu, I see that in your statement you have a request.  I would like you to repeat that request.

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: I do have a request, Mr Chairperson, that the people who tortured me must try and support me, because they are the ones who tortured me.  I would like them to pay a sum of R20 000,00 for damages so that my children can get something.  I cannot even hear properly with my left ear as a result of the injuries sustained in this torture.   I would like the police who were assaulting me to pay me and I know their names.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Ms Forosi.  Maybe you will be asked questions by my colleagues.

CHAIRPERSON: Nomvuyiseko, when you started giving us your testimony you spoke about Steve Biko's funeral in Highway.  Is that correct?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it a funeral or a memorial service?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: I do not remember, but our Priest told us that something was happening in Highway.  He told us to go home.  I am not sure whether it was a memorial service or his funeral, but I was accused of attending that funeral.

CHAIRPERSON: Steve Biko's funeral was in King William's Town.  I think it was only a memorial service.

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: I think people were coming from the funeral.  When they got to Highway two policemen were killed.

CHAIRPERSON: So these people were from Steve Biko's funeral?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you a member of any political organisation at the time?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes, I was, but we were not known.

CHAIRPERSON: Which political organisation?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: I said, when I joined the organisation I said that I wanted to join ANC.  I was told that that organisation was banned.  I then joined a Youth Congress,  East London Youth Congress.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nondula next to you, do you know him?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes, I know him.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he a leader of this organisation?

NOMVUYISEKO FOROSI: Yes, he was, but there were many of us.  I know the people who were leading me.  When you joined the organisation you were not interested in knowing the names of the Comrades, but you just wanted to join the organisation so that we can get a membership card, but we use to hide these membership cards, but what surprises us is that when you join the organisation the police would know although you would join secretly in the office.  The police would know and even when we were released from prison we were given an order not to be more than five people in the street.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  You may continue Mr Sandi.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Let us go to Mr Sibewu.  Mr Sibewu, when I am looking at your statement I see that your story is also similar to the two witnesses who just testified.  You were arrested, detained and harassed by the Ciskeian Police.  Is that correct?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: Yes, that is correct Sir.

ADV SANDI: Let us start in 1980.  In which political organisation did you belong to in 1980?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: In 1980 I was working for the underground structures of the African National Congress.

ADV SANDI: You were staying in Mdantsane at the time?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Please tell us, Mr Sibewu, what happened to you?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: In 1980 the Ciskeian Police came to my home.  They broke the door.  They harassed me, they searched my house.  At that time I was staying alone.

ADV SANDI: At the time of this were you at home?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: Yes, I was at home.  They took me out of the house assaulting me.  They took me to a police van.  At the time there was schools uprising in Mdantsane.  They took me to the police station.  I was detained for four months.  They would interrogate me asking me why I visited Lesotho and I denied everything.  I did not have any knowledge of anything.  They said that I was working for underground, I was working for banned organisations and I am a communist.  They showed me a file as I was arrested in 1978.   They said that the people in which I am recruiting for ANC, they want these people to kill me.  They will try, they will try to make these people in which they said I was recruiting, kill me.

ADV SANDI: Let us now focus on different kinds of torture in prison.

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: They beat me up while they were taking me out of the house.  We were then arrested with other school children in cell number 14.  We had no blankets and at about eight they released us, transferring us to another cell.  When we were being taken out of that cell, a number of men came to me and they assaulted me.  I tried to fight back, but others tried to stop, to stop them.  The people who were there screamed and one of those people were Mr Mateli saying that why are you killing our children which is when they stopped.

ADV SANDI: You were give a R250,00 bail?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: In 1980 I was not given bail.  I was detained for six months.  I was then released in the sixth month.

ADV SANDI: Did you appear in court?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: No.

ADV SANDI: In 1980 did you appear in court?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: No, I went to court in 1984 when I was a member of the Committee of Ten in the bus boycott in Mdantsane.

ADV SANDI: Were you found guilty in the Court of Law?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: No, I was not found guilty.

ADV SANDI: Briefly, what were you accused of?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: I was accused of being a terrorist.

ADV SANDI: Were there any steps taken after you were released or did you go to any attorneys or did you lay a charge?

MTUTUZELI SIBEWU: Since I was arrested, Sir, from 1978 to 1980 I did not take any steps, because of the circumstances at that time, because the lawyers would be arrested with us.  If you would lay a charge or if you would go to an attorney, you would be harassed together with that attorney.

ADV SANDI: You have a reason for appearing before the Commission, Mr Sibewu.  I would like you to give out this reason or maybe you have a request or you have expectations to this Commission.