Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-23

SOPHIE THEMA: Well, I did not get the feeling that they were really trying to help in any way.  I thought that it was just but a cover-up because, I mean, Cillier himself, he was an Afrikaner.  I would have understood it if it was a black person who was sitting there and he was heading the Commission, but this did not happen, but because we wanted the world to know what actually happened on that day, some of us went there to testify because we felt that we could not sit with this atrocities bottled up in us.  We had to talk to somebody, we had to tell somebody about what we saw on this particular day, but I still feel that the Cillier Commission was just but a cover-up.

RUSSELL ALLY: And what kind of reception did you actually get as SOWETO HEARING GAUTENG PROVINCE
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a witness?

SOPHIE THEMA: Well I was not harassed in any way.  It was like I was in a Court of Law where a Magistrate would sort of, you know, put questions to me and I would answer him.

RUSSELL ALLY: And in the report which was eventually published do you in excerpts that you have seen or in the report itself or in accounts of the report, do you get a feeling that some of the testimony which you actually gave was incorporated, is reflected, your experiences and ...

SOPHIE THEMA: I am sorry, I cannot hear you properly.

RUSSELL ALLY: In the actual report itself do you get a feeling that some of the experiences which you related, are they captured in that actual report?  Do you feel that what you were trying to convey to the Cillier's Commission was taken seriously and was incorporated in the eventual report?

SOPHIE THEMA: Well, some of the facts, yes, they were incorporated, but I think there were other facts that were really, that were not incorporated.  For instance like I did mention to the Cillier Commission about the warnings that were sounded by some of our leaders.  For instance I know Mr Mosala was one of the people.  The Institute of Race Relations actually wrote letters to Treurnicht to actually say to him watch, you are looking for trouble.  I still remember, I think it was in the Beeld that morning when he was actually responding to the letters that were written to him from the Institute.  He actually said die Instituut skop stof op.  That was after he read the letters that were sent to him and I gathered from that response that he was not prepared to listen.

RUSSELL ALLY: And just a last question Sophie.  Politically, how did, did 1976 change you in any way?
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SOPHIE THEMA: Change me?

RUSSELL ALLY: Politically, before and after?

SOPHIE THEMA: Unfortunately, I never was a politician and I am still not a politician and 1976 did not change me as a person.  I still see human beings as I saw them before 1976 and during 1976, but what I can tell you is that nothing much to effect our human lives has changed since 1976.  Very little has changed.  Our education is still the same, our people still live in the same old informal sector situation.  Very little has changed, but I still say I, as a human being, 1976 did not change me.  I still have my idealogies within me and my own police within me.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Sophie.

CHAIRPERSON: Piet Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: Most of my questions have been answered.  Thank you very much.  Only a brief question.  You, as a black journalist, had easy access to what was happening in Soweto, you were trusted by the people giving note of what is going to happen.  Your colleagues who worked for the white newspapers or the newspapers with the white readership, were they also allowed to see what was happening in order to report back to their readership what was happening in the country?

SOPHIE THEMA: For the first few days or the first few weeks white journalists were not safe in Soweto.  I lived with the people, I lived in Soweto so I had easy access and even in instances where police surrounded certain areas, I had easy access because I would dress like an ordinary housewife and they could never recognise me.

PROF MEIRING: But the others had a more difficult task to get hold of the news and to get photos?
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SOPHIE THEMA: Well, the black journalists, yes, because in most cases we also had the protection of the students, but white journalists had a problem.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Sophie, I just want to thank you very much for coming forward before this Commission to give your own perspective of what happened in 1976.  In thanking you I also want to acknowledge and affirm your resistance.  As you have just said you are not a politician, but we value something in you, special commitment and the ability to live closely to the suffering.  You described the manner in which you rushed a young person who was shot in your presence even at the time when your male colleague did not have the courage of rushing a child to the clinic.  We appreciate that.  It tells us the kind of a leader you are and also we want to thank you for the challenge that you are setting for other journalists even today to be committed and be prepared to highlight the struggles of people.  You just mentioned that you still, you are concerned about people in prisons, you are still conscious and aware of people who are in the street without homes.  All that, it portrays and it leaves a challenge for all of us that we should be aware of those who are less privileged than us.  We thank you very much for agreeing to support the witnesses today.  Thank you.

SOPHIE THEMA: Thank you Commissioner.

CHAIRPERSON: I would then ask that we adjourn for tea, but I will ask that we have order of some kind.  Zothwa will ask one of the TRC members of staff to lead the witnesses and our dignitaries to the tea room while you all remain here and then we will adjourn for 15 minutes and we come back.
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