Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

MANDLA BROWN KASO: This object was removed after a week, Friday, after a week and then these Doctors asked me if I could see, I said no.  My eye was removed and I had an artificial eye inserted.

REV XUNDU: Did anyone take a statement from you or did anyone - did you go to Attorneys to consult?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: I went to the police and Nkenke at the Investigative Unit in Fort Beaufort said to me that they would get back to me.  They took my statement, Nkenke took my statement and Nkenke and Makalima took my statement.
 Makalima is the one that wrote down my statement.  Nkenke and them would keep fetching me from my house.

REV XUNDU: And thereafter it just went quiet, you never heard from them again?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: No, I never heard from them again and I never received any kind of compensation.  I received a letter saying that I should go to the Magistrate's court and from the Magistrate's court I was to go to the Doctor to try and get a pension.
 I then took this paper to the Doctor, the Doctor
refused.

REV XUNDU: Who was this Doctor?  Perhaps our investigators could trace him?  Perhaps you could give the name to our investigators later.  Did you ever receive a grant since then?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: No, I never.

REV XUNDU: Have you got a wife?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Have you got children?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes.

REV XUNDU: How many children do you have?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Three.

REV XUNDU: How many wives?  There are three children, how many wives?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: One wife.

REV XUNDU: How do you support your children?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: I do odd jobs.

REV XUNDU: Does your wife work?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes.

REV XUNDU: How would you like the Commission to be of assistance?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: I would like the Commission to assist me in whatever way it can because I am basically useless now.  I do not receive any pension.

REV XUNDU: What standards are your children?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: One is in standard 3, the one is standard 2 and the one is in sub B, the little one.

REV XUNDU: So we will investigate the matter and see if we can make any recommendation to the President of the country.  Thank you very much.  Chairperson, I hand them back to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Crichton?

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Kaso, can you hear me?  Can you hear me?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: It just took you a couple of moments to tell your story, but there is a lifetime of results as a result of your story.  I only have one simple question for you.  I want to ask you who Priscilla Kaso is?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: She is my sister.

JUNE CRICHTON: Did she witness the event?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes, she did.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you, that is all I wanted from you.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntsiki Sandi?

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I observe in  your statements all three of you, refer to soldiers.  Was there ever a time where soldiers entered Fort Beaufort?   Mr Kaso, were you assaulted by soldiers that day?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: I was shot from a casper.

ADV SANDI: Were this the soldiers or the police?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: They were police.

ADV SANDI: Were there ever any soldiers in Fort Beaufort when this turbulence was taking place?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes, there were, but I did not see any soldiers that day, I saw this casper with police.

ADV SANDI: What were the soldiers doing when they were there?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: They would merely assault people with sjamboks and so forth.

ADV SANDI: Was there a group or groups who have already been mentioned by the previous witnesses who were corroborating with the soldiers?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes, there were.

ADV SANDI: Who were they?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: They used to corroborate with the Amangundwana and the soldiers and also with the - they would all corroborate with the soldiers and the Zulu's.

ADV SANDI: Were you ever with people who were assaulted by the soldiers there or did you see that?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: Yes, I did.

ADV SANDI: What would the soldiers say to them when they assaulted them?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: They wouldn't ask them any questions, they would merely assault them, assault people who were on their way somewhere.

CHAIRPERSON: Tiny Maya?

MS MAYA: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Swartbooi, you said that these people - now I am going to ask you whether they were soldiers or police?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: They were police.

MS MAYA: And you say they were in a casper?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes.

MS MAYA: You say they called you while you were in your yard at home?  Did they call you because they knew you or because they were just calling people at random?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: They didn't know me.

MS MAYA: Were you politically active?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, I was involved in the ANC.

MS MAYA: Did you hold any position within the ANC?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No.

MS MAYA: You say at the hospital a cross was put at your feet before you were transferred to East London?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No, but I still have documents here.

MS MAYA: What happened to you when you got to East London?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: I was X-rayed.  And I was admitted for several months, for nine months.

MS MAYA: What happened to you there?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: They assaulted me with firearms and kicked me with boots.

MS MAYA: Did anything happen, was there a case or anything like that?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: ; No.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Swartbooi, did anyone see this incident take place?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Who?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: My aunt.

CHAIRPERSON: What is her name?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: She is Somikazi.

CHAIRPERSON: And these soldiers just called you and assaulted you, didn't they say anything while they were assaulting you?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No, they merely assaulted me.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't they tell you why they were assaulting you?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No.  I didn't think of running away because they would have shot me if I ran away, I just went to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that a common occurrence for them to just call somebody there and assault the person?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, it used to happen quite often.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank the three of you for the testimony which you have come to give here.  We will send our Investigative Team to you in Fort Beaufort to come and take more details as they are going to go and investigate the
matter so that we can submit a report to our President.  We will now take a recess until two o'clock.

COMMISSION ADJOURNS UNTIL TWO O'CLOCK: .