Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They would come in and ask and I will answer for myself and tell them I don't know.

MR MAPOMA: Then what happen there afterwards?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I will request to say this, that even the person who tied me with wires is here in this hall.  It's the one I'm pointing at who is sitting right next to this one, right there where I'm pointing - the one who's even pointing at himself.

INTERPRETER: Paulos Shongwe.

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes.  He tied me with a wire.

MR MAPOMA: Then were you joined by others in the shack?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes I think at about eleven if I'm not mistaken others joined.  The ones that I have clear recollection were Mele, Isaac and Didabe.

MR MAPOMA: Were they also brought there by the same men who brought you in?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I did not see them as they arrived because they were not taken right inside the shack, they were only standing outside right by the door - we could see them from inside, they were not inside, that is them.

MR MAPOMA: Then what happened?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Stability arrived to fetch the bodies of the ones who were already killed.

MR MAPOMA: Yes?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: We were kept in the shack.  I tried to untie this wire in an effort to escape and I managed to.  I also did untie the one on the feet and the other three cried to me that I should do the same with them and I was trying to untie the wires.  One woman stood by the door, came towards the door and said: 'here, the thugs are trying to escape.'  I don't know her [indistinct] I only know her from sight.  As I was trying to untie, they came back those men, they found that I was free and when they arrived they got inside the shack.  The one tried to hit me with an axe and it hacked right on the corrugated iron.  The axe hung on the corrugated iron - in other words he could not hit me.

MR MAPOMA: Is that person here?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes he is here.  That's the one, the one that I am pointing at with the white shirt.

INTERPRETER: Rodrick Singo.

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: The other one came with a rope.

MR MAPOMA: Do you know which one came with a rope?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I've forgotten that one.

MR MAPOMA: Yes did he tie you with the rope?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes when he arrived he said: 'this one is the one who is problematic he is trying even to escape, maybe we should tie him with this rope.'  They tied my hands and my feet and they tied the rope right on top.

PANEL MEMBER: Sir, when you say they tied top what are you referring to?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They tied my feet and this is how they tied my hands on top.

MR MAPOMA: Did they tie you with...[indistinct] something onto the shack?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They tied my hands, first they tied my feet, secondly they tied my hands and they pulled the rope right to the top and this is what happened and this is how the position was.

MR MAPOMA: Yes?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I think we're more than 15 now - the boys - the ones who were captured.

CHAIRPERSON: They kept on bringing other youths into the shack?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You were approximately 15?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Then when you were that number what happened?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: We were taken out of the shack and they said maybe we should take them out of the shack and remove them because the Stability might find them there.  We were taken to the last shack in Block F right towards the veld, the last line in Block F.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, you were in last shack in Block F, the next shack now - what happened?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They took us to that shack, it was still under construction it was not complete and they said we shall get inside and that's where we were kept.  After a while as we were still there, Mr Ntebe stomped in.

MR MAPOMA: Is there anything Mr Ntebe said to you?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: He threw a cigarette carton, Consulate.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, he threw a cigarette carton and said?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: And said please smoke because you are smoking for the last time today.

MR MAPOMA: Now in that shack, were you asked any questions?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They were asking others, the ones that I was captured with and kept with and they were the ones who were responding to the questions, I never even answered back because I told them from the onset that I did not know a thing as they awoke me from a shack and I was sleeping.  I heard Mr Ndabe asking Mavuso the one we call Mavuso?  I said to Mavuso I said a long time ago Mavuso that one day they will capture you they will get hold of you and today is the day.

MR MAPOMA: Didn't you ever say anything about Vips?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: We just heard that Vips had already been killed, we heard from Mr Ndabe saying 'Hah we've already killed Vips.'

MR MAPOMA: Who was he telling that they've killed Vips?  Was he telling you or the other men?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: He was talking to these others and we heard as well - he was telling the members of his group - and we heard because we're in the same company.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you still recall who was in that group?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Mr Ndabe was present.

MR MAPOMA: Yes and who else can you recall?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I don't remember the others because I was also dizzy because I was already stabbed as well so my body was a bit numb.  I was also losing it, I could not think straight.

MR MAPOMA: What happened then?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: One man from Salumi, Mr Koos, came in.

MR MAPOMA: Yes?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: And he said to me 'are you also here?' and he went out immediately.  As we were still sitting there Armoed came in.

MR MAPOMA: Yes.

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I was seated right towards the corner and Armoed called me and I stood up, I went to him.  As I was standing up, on that note, he asked others as to whether I was patrolling as well and they said no he wasn't there.

MR MAPOMA: Asking the other persons who had been?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: The other boys that were captured with, he was asking them.  He took me outside to the other group and three people were standing outside and other people were standing far away in groups and he took me to the ones that were there, the three of them.

MR MAPOMA: Yes?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: And said to them:  'Comrades, this is my boy, he resides right next to my house in Block D.

MR MAPOMA: Is there any one of the three amongst the applicants?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I don't remember now.  After he said what he said to them they said to me: 'Go' - you are free in other words.  As I tried to leave one of them called me.  I was naked, I had no T-shirt on top and the other one got hold of me with his nails right at the back and hit me with a fist.

MR MAPOMA: Can you still remember who that one was?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I don't remember the person.

MR MAPOMA: What happened then?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: And as I was leaving, trying to leave rather, they said to me:  'Hey you, boy, one word that will be said or uttered by you, you are dead meat.'

CHAIRPERSON: Did they say to you if you go and report what's happening here we're going to kill you?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: They said that when they were releasing me.

MR MAPOMA: ...[inaudible] to be released?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: That's how I was released.  I left the scene and when I arrived at home I found the place upside down, the whole place was just in disarray.  I had to go to hospital to be stitched where I was stabbed.  I could not even wash myself up due to the injury that I sustained.

MR MAPOMA: Did you hear as to what happened with others who were in the shack, who were left in the shack?