Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-09

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I only heard about this in 1997, not before.

MR VALLY: Did you hear about this independently of the fact that you were arrested for having those capsules?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I only heard about it, that those capsules that were found in my possession contained Ecstasy, from the Forensic Department.  Captain Koch I believe, told me that at a stage.

MR VALLY: Independently of that, were you ever aware that they had encapsulated the Ecstasy?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I was not aware that they had encapsulated Ecstasy or any other drug of abuse there.

MR VALLY: Were you able to determine whether the Ecstasy that was found in your possession was the same Ecstasy that you had produced?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well that would be rather difficult.  I didn't do any analysis, I mean the Forensic Department did those analysis.  They said that it exceedingly pure Ecstasy and I did make a very pure Ecstasy.  Well, not me myself but the Production Department under my direction.

DR RANDERA: Professor, can you just tell us, in tablet forms, the 912 kilograms.

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Yes?

DR RANDERA: How many tablets would have been able to be produced out of that?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well, I have articles here ...[intervention]

DR RANDERA: And what would be the street value of that at that time and today if you like?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well what I could deduce, there was an article in Chemical and Engineering News on a drug of abuse and if you look at the activity of MDMA Hydrochloride there's probably this, about 150 milligrams would go into a capsule.  Now you can calculate milligrams, 150 milligrams, how many capsules you can get from 912 kilograms of this.  It's quite a large, I think that it's probably about 600 to 100 million rands, if I have to guess quickly.

MR VALLY: We're trying to get clarity on that.  How much - what would you say the value of the said Ecstasy was?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well, I've heard that these things have probably a street value of about R100 a capsule or a pill or whatever, on these rave parties.

MR VALLY: I see.  We will have to do our sums but it's a considerable sum of money.

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: It's a considerable sum of money yes.

MR VALLY: Sorry, the total estimate that you gave us a short while ago?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I said about 600 million but this is only a guesstimate, I ...[intervention]

MR VALLY: 600 million ...[intervention]

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I haven't got a calculator here.

MR VALLY: I understand that.  What would you have used Mercuric Oxide for?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well, initially when I was asked to develop a process for making Ecstasy or Baxil or MDMA hydrochloride we started with a Safrome which a constituent of the oil of Sassafras and this a substituted three for methylene dioxi.. ...[intervention]

MR VALLY: Sorry, I don't need the exact formulae.

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Okay, but we could start from oil of Sassafras and in this case we needed Mercuric Acetate to convert this Oil of Sassafras precursor to an intermediate which could eventually then be converted to an MDMA Hydrochloride.  This process was not very successful.  It gave low yields and I then eventually switched over to ...[intervention]

MR VALLY: You don't have to tell us.  Sorry, we're trying not to proliferate.

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Yes, I'll try not to either.

MR VALLY: Just coming back to the Mercuric Oxide, was this delivered by Mr Allan Kidger?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I don't know, I honestly don't know.

MR VALLY: Do you know who you obtained the Mercuric Oxide from(?)?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Look, I was involved with the development, small scale development of this process and for this I used   Mercuric Oxide which you buy commercially from normal chemical agents.  I did not make use of Mercuric Oxide on a large scale where Ecstasy was concerned.  It was not a very promising approach.
 Now there were other complications where people were involved at trying to make, I just received a document here in this regard, where people tried to make some of this precursor, PMK for making Ecstasy in their own private capacity but I was never involved with that and I only heard about.  I would not like to comment upon this except if you really want me to.

MR VALLY: Yes, we would like to know that but not right now.  The reason I'm mentioning Mercuric Oxide is we understand from our investigations that it was Mr Allan Kidger who was responsible for delivering this Mercuric Oxide and a short while after this was delivered, we're talking days, he was in fact found killed.  Do you have any knowledge of Mr Kidger?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No.

MR VALLY: Do you know who Mr Kidger was?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I've never met the man before in my life.  If he had any dealings with Delta G, it was probably with our Buying Department.

MR VALLY: You have heard of his death?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I have heard that he was cut up and found or something and found in a BMW, that's what I read in the newspapers.

MR VALLY: That's right.  Do you have any other knowledge of it besides that?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I don't.

MR VALLY: Do you have any knowledge whatsoever as to what happened with the 912 kilograms of Ecstasy?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, Sir, I don't.

MR VALLY: Have you ever enquired about it?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well, I just heard that it probably would be eventually destroyed in the presence of police but whether this was ever executed or not, I don't know.  And I've also then read some aspects, some recommendations from these TRC documents, and I don't know whether you want me to comment upon them.

MR VALLY: No, but have you ever, even in ...[indistinct] talk informally amongst your colleagues, asked: "Whatever happened to all that Ecstasy I produced"?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Yes, I have asked things like this but I never got any answer.

MR VALLY: Who did you ask?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: Well, I asked some of my colleagues whether they knew about it, that worked directly with me.

MR VALLY: Can you give us some names?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I asked Doctor Lourens, Doctor Jordaan and those people and they said they don't know what has happened to it.

MR VALLY: Did you ask Doctor Mijburgh?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I did not ask him what happened to it.

MR VALLY: Did you ask Doctor ...[intervention]

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I actually did say to Mijburgh, at a stage when I had to develop this thing, that if I ever found out that he was smuggling with this stuff I'll have his skin.

MR VALLY: Did you ever ask Doctor Wouter Basson what happened to it?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: No, I did not.

MR VALLY: Why did you ask Doctor ...[intervention]

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: I had very few contacts with Doctor Wouter Basson.  The last contact I did have with him,   and that was one of the reasons that some documents were found by the police at my house, I believe it was in November 1994.
 I didn't know that he had left the Army at that stage, and he phoned me up and said that I must come and see him at the Protea Hotel there in Midrand and he requested from me that I do a costing of the Baxil Project for him because he said there was still some outstanding accounts he had to settle with the people that supplied him with the raw materials and he wanted to know exactly how much Baxil costs.

MR VALLY: Baxil was the code name for Ecstasy?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: That's right.

MR VALLY: And when was this?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: That was in November 1994.

MR VALLY: And this is Doctor Wouter Basson?

JOHANNES MATTEUS KOEKEMOER: That was Doctor Wouter Basson, yes.  He had Advocate Chris Marlow with him on that day.