Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-12-07

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: I did shoot, I was alone, I was alone, I was not in a group, but I did not see anyone who died, although I saw blood in the morning, in Stanger that is.

MR LAX: So really the point I'm making, it's not a question that you didn't injure anybody there, you must have injured somebody if you saw blood?   Nobody else was shooting, just you?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, I did see blood, but I did not discover anybody injured as a result of that.

MR LAX: Precisely.   No, we accept that.

MR MATTHEWS: In your amnesty application, the 12th item you have placed here is that you were present during the planning of the assassination of Reggie Gadebe, is that correct?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that is so, but I left early.

MR MATTHEWS: Will you tell this Committee what you know about that?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: What I heard from Mabeso was that he had attacked him, but I did not witness it, and Mabeso was pleased about this.

CHAIRPERSON: But what you did say was that you were at Chief Galowengeni Mkhize's kraal, and that he appeared on a television programme, Reggie Gadebe did, and the chief then asked whether any of you could recognise him and that he had to be killed.   Did that happen?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So the chief did say that Reggie had to be killed, and did he say he was going to shake hands with Reggie so you would know who he was?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: That is very true.

MR MATTHEWS: And in fact he did shake hands with him, you saw that?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: I was not present, because I had remained at his home.

MR MATTHEWS: You didn't go to the meeting, the peace meeting?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: No, I did not attend it.

CHAIRPERSON: You remember you've made an affidavit in which you said Chief Galowengeni Mkhize identified Reggie Gadebe by shaking his hand?   Did you see that?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: I did not witness that.   Maybe the person who took the statement made a mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: And you went on to say
"When the meeting commenced, we didn't attend, but waited outside."

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: That was the information that I heard, not that I was present.
CHAIRPERSON
"Beki Mkhize left with others before the meeting terminated in a certain car which I cannot recall now."
I'm reading from your affidavit.

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: That is what I heard.
CHAIRPERSON
"When the meeting terminated, I travelled with the chief, first to the High Flats Police Station and then to the shop."

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: I was not present.

CHAIRPERSON: So all this in your affidavit is an invention by somebody, that you travelled with the chief to the High Flats Police Station and to the shop?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: As I explained before, I was not present, I don't think they heard me correctly when they took the statement.   I think the person who took the statement made a mistake.

MR MATTHEWS: You say you were informed about this when Beki Mkhize returned home?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes.

MR MATTHEWS: So you were not present when Mr Gadebe was killed?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: No, I was not present.

MR MATTHEWS: Mr Mbhele, you've already told us that during 1992 and 1993 there was no difficulty for you to eliminate members of the ANC, is that correct?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, because of the situation, that was true.

MR MATTHEWS: Do you still hold that point of view now?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: No.

MR MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MATTHEWS

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any expert on the local weather who can say how long this is going to go on for?  ...(inaudible)
	It's now twelve minutes to four, I think it would be wiser to take the adjournment and trust that we can start questioning the applicant at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning rather than have to put up with what you have in the last ten minutes.   Does 9 o'clock suit everyone?   Well, the most important people are sitting on my right, can they make arrangements to have him here by 9 o'clock tomorrow morning?   Thank you.  Right, we will adjourn till 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS