Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

NYAMEKA GONIWE: We casually talked about that but I would need EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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obviously to confer with the others, and I know that I talked with the two because we shared a room, that is Mrs Calata Mrs Mkhonto but unfortunately I didn't have a word with Nombuyiselo Mhlawuli, so we would need to come to some kind of agreement, if the Commission would grant us that stage to come back again.

PANEL MEMBER: Nyami throughout your testimony you have spoken not only of yourself and of you r husband, but you have spoken of the community that supported you.  The community that suffered with you.  Could you please just say something about the suffering that has been endured by the Cradock community? And whether you see reparation that flows recommendations from this Commission, not only to individuals, important as that aspect is, but also to communities that shared that suffering and I'm raising that question with you because you have grown in stature in our eyes, in this region, as a person who goes beyond just thinking about yourself, but who thinks about the broader sharing in the pain of the struggle.

NYAMEKA GONIWE: Yes I've dealt with my own pain but obviously, I mean there are many people who have suffered out there.... (end of side A of tape 11)
(side B  ).... have a list of names of everybody who have died and we talked about where that could be.  You know this is worse than trying to embrace everybody within that community and I mean I guess, this is what I would like to feel,  I don't know, of course I haven't conferred with my fellow widows, but I wouldn't like to have all our names put on the stone, but everybody who suffered during that time, and having watched the proceedings during the past few days, I sort of feel that we are going to need a lot of energy and EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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strength, especially the Reparations Committee, to try and engage people in a healing process.  I don't know what kind of process that could be obviously, but really their pain is different and obviously you are going to have to help the process and persons everywhere.
 I don't know if I'm secure but...(indistinct)

PANEL MEMBER: Mr Chairperson I would like to ask a question that would give us a feel on the impact on the children.  I know you've described your own pain, and you don't have to answer this, but if you could tell us a little bit about how the children have been able to cope and, you don't have to answer the question.

NYAMEKA GONIWE: Okay.  I guess I have to be stronger for them and they draw that strength from me.  If necessary I try and protect them against exposure, against many other things, and I think they have coped quite well.  Again I'm saying this in a superficial manner.  Maybe I'm not that observant, but as a mother, I think they are stronger and they will grow up strong individuals as well, in spite of the fact that they don't have a father.  And one other thing which I need to say, with my son, it's really good to have a family, good to have Cradock, to go to Cradock over holidays and of course those are models, his models, so he insists to go to Cradock and he loves it.  Of course the family doesn't want him to go anywhere, so they always demand that he goes to Cradock, which has helped quite a lot.

PANEL MEMBER: In your testimony to the Commission, you have made a mention of the name, Mr Winter who was transferred to Cradock, and according to your testimony he is a former Koevoet member.  Has he spoken to you after the death of Mr Goniwe?  If he was transferred, how soon was this after the
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death of Mr Goniwe?

NYAMEKA GONIWE: I'm the Cradock people might shed light on that because I think he got a promotion shortly after that. You know how everybody gets rewarded about some of these things in the past, and he got a promotion and he was transferred to Port Elizabeth as I don't what now, a captain or brigadier, or whatever.  Just to say as well that the harassment of the Goniwe family didn't end with the death
of Matthew. We were still subjected to harassment and would be picked up and photographed, and it came out during the course of the inquest that a very sophisticated bug was placed in our house, which is called a tomatie.  I'm sure the Commission, if you're very interested in pursuing that or what happened or about the tomatie, it's well covered in the inquest document.  But that device could pick up the slightest sound, even the drop of a pin, everywhere in that house, in all rooms, so they could hear us sleeping in our bedrooms, everywhere, they could hear us argue, whatever, whatever happened in that family. This was a listening device, and there was a person who testified about this kind of device at the inquest, and they could hear you even if you were in the back yard or the front yard of the house, it was so powerful and I'm sure assisted them quite a lot to monitor the activities of the occupants of the house, what was said and pick up conversations.  I was glad not to hear about it at the time, because we would have been paranoid.  But we continued with our lives and were involved, and had meetings, numerous meetings in that house and we tricked them in many ways, which made us to be very proud, despite of the fact that there were listening devices in that house.

DESMOND MPILO TUTU: All of you were very young when this
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happened, and one of the things that I think has impressed us is how you have been supporting each other, I mean, even yesterday, just sitting together, and you were really children when this awful thing happened.  And so we see, sort of in the age spread when you have Mrs Mazwai over there and you have yourselves over here, and it just makes you say, we are an incredible country with some quite extraordinary people.  I mean that you can laugh, you can sing, you have hope even you have been traumatized.  It gives great hope for this land, because having heard  ...(indistinct) too this morning, I mean just makes you say, maybe South Africa is God's favourite, because, and it's good, that we must hear the pain of everybody, and for people to know that this freedom was not cheap and that people must learn to nurse it, because it was bought at a very very great price.  Thank you.