Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR TIPP: At that stage when you were observing these groups in front of Shell House, had you been issued with a pistol?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No, not at that time.

MR TIPP: So what were you doing in the front of Shell House?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Everybody, most of the people were outside at the front of Shell House because it was not one group that was marching and they were singing so there was singing from all directions and one is, we wanted to see as to what is going on outside and I was outside with the people who were there just to observe as to what exactly is going on.

MR TIPP: Eventually you were issued with a pistol by Gary Kruser.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: You then describe in your Affidavit hearing the shots from the direction of Lancet Hall, moving to Lancet Hall and then coming back to Shell House.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: I want to take you now to the meeting that you observed in the office of John Ntlhantlha.  Do you recall that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes I do.

MR TIPP: Can you tell the Committee Mr Beea what was going on in Mr Ntlhantlha office and in your own words, describe how events unfolded from there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The meeting was not exactly in Ntlhantlha's office, it was in the boardroom on the 18th floor, actually this meeting had not commenced then.  I was on the 18th floor and the Deputy President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, Mr Penwell Maduna, Mr John Ntlhantlha and two or three police officers were in the boardroom just about to start a meeting.

MR TIPP: Do you know who these police officers were?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I don't.

MR TIPP: Do you know what the meeting was about?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I can only assume that probably the police were there to discuss the issue of the march and the marchers around Shell House, I can only assume that.

MR TIPP: What happened then?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Before people could sit down Mr Maduna, through the window, pointed out to the police and other people who were in that meeting, towards the direction of de Villiers, pointed at a group of marchers amongst whom was a very big man and the reason Maduna was pointing at that group specifically was because that big man was carrying a weapon, was carrying an AK47 on his shoulder and the barrel of the weapon was visible and Maduna then said:  "There's ..." - I'm referring to the police, I'm not going to para, to phrase him I'm in verbatim, I'm trying to paraphrase him that you can see, this is what we're referring to, these people are armed, there's a man with an AK and if I recollect clearly, the response of one of the Chiefs of the Police then was that I am here and there is nothing I can do.  That is what I can recall.  I then left - may I continue?

MR TIPP: Please.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I then left and rushed downstairs, (1) with the intention of informing people who were on that side from which the marchers were approaching, to make them aware and alert them that if they are not aware, there is a group that is coming down de Villiers Street, they should be on the alert.

MR TIPP: You got to ground level and what happened?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I got out of Shell House, rushed towards King George because that's the side that I'm referring to and ... (intervention)

MR TIPP: So you came out of the entrance in Plein Street and then rushed towards the corner of Plein and King George.  Is that what you're saying?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That's correct.

MR TIPP: Please continue.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: And as I turned I was walking up towards de Villiers from Plein Street, on the side of Shell House and there are pillars and I could not reach the corner of King George and de Villiers from the ANC, from the Shell House side.  In that period that group emerged from the corner and as I my recollection and as I'm trying to recollect now, that group from coming out of the corner they charged at us and I heard gunfire.

MR TIPP: I beg your pardon, you - you said they charged at you and?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: And I heard gunfire and I shot back at the crowd and I was retreating as I was shooting and I turned back to take cover on the other side, back to Plein Street and the front of Shell House.

MR TIPP: You say that as you came into King George Street, you heard the sound of gunfire.  What sort of gunfire did you hear and from where did you hear the gunfire?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The sound of - it was a combination of pistol fire, automatic rifles, presumably an AK47 and shotguns.  That's the kind of sound and noise that I heard.

MR TIPP: Why did you shoot in the direction of the marchers?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The marchers came charging and in that charge there was gunfire and I was under the impression that I was being shot at by the marchers and I shot back.

MR TIPP: Were you the only one that was shooting at the time from amongst the ANC guards on the corner?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I don't think I could have been the only one because there were people who were outside who were there before me and as I say that I rushed outside to go and indicate to them that there is this group so I don't think I could have been the only one that shot, but I cannot specifically say that this person shot or that, I can only assume that people also shot as I was shooting.

MR TIPP: Why didn't you just turn around and run back into Shell House?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I am a trained soldier, I had a weapon, I had a responsibility as a member of the ANC to protect lives, first my own life and secondly the lives of my comrades and colleagues and thirdly, the building and those who were in it so I could not turn my back and run when I had that obligation and that responsibility.

MR TIPP: What did you fear would happen if you did not shoot at the marchers?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I, the biggest fear was that (1) I feared for my life, that's the main thing, I was scared then but then I feared that should the marchers overrun us, it would have been easy for them to gain access into the building of the ANC and I am convinced that had that happened other people, through fear of the IFP, might even have jumped through the windows of Shell House as high as the 22nd floor.  That's what I feared, we had the leadership of the ANC, there could have been serious pandemonium within the building of the ANC.  People would have been trapped within the building of the ANC.  That is what came into my mind, I pictured that happening inside Shell House with the leadership in there.  We had elderly people like Mr Sisulu, he can't run - at least I can run.  We had other elderly people in the leadership who could not run and they relied heavily upon us to protect them.

MR TIPP: Mr Beea how many shots did you fire?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Three to four shots.

MR TIPP: Into the crowd?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes into the crowd.

MR TIPP: Why did you stop firing?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I stopped firing because I had already turned so I felt as a person I was safe, but secondly I did not have the view, I could not see the marchers after turning.

MR TIPP: You say in paragraph 18 of your Affidavit, page 91 that the shooting was over very quickly.  Would it be correct to say that the shooting started immediately before you got to the corner and ended within a matter of seconds after you'd turned the corner.  Would that be correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: It's possible, yes.

MR TIPP: And that you were only in de Villiers, in King George Street for only a matter of seconds.  Would that also be correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes that's correct.

MR TIPP: Mr Beea, it follows from your evidence that you believe that you were justified in shooting at the crowd.  Am I correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Why then are you here applying for amnesty?