Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR BRINK: /You were

MR BRINK: You were in command of that group.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  I was in command.  I was the one that loaded them off there, but I can ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: What did you say?  You were the one ... (incomplete)

WILSON J: Who loaded them off there.

CHAIRPERSON: Who loaded them off there.

WITNESS:   Yes, which - I loaded them off at the shop, which is a short distance from the house.  I am in this position now that I've been as honest as possible with the Commission.  I have got nothing to lose.  It would have been far easier for me to explain my presence at the house had I gone with them to this Commission.  I don't want to withhold any information, I don't want to be seen to be withholding information, and I said to my advocate that if it stands between me having to spend 30 years in prison or saying that I was at the house I am not able to do it, because I wasn't there.  So I have this bit of a problem.  But I don't want to be - the judgment and the decision that's been made in the judgment, I don't want it to become the issue in this whole case.  I wanted to come and explain the background and the circumstances and the situation we were in at the time, and how these things came about, things that were not explained at the trial, and was not explained fully, and the information that I withheld because of my blind loyalty and my blind stupidity at the time.

MR BRINK: Mr Mitchell, for my part I accept your frankness.  You have accepted responsibility for the massacre.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I accept that what we did and

MR BRINK: what we were involved in are the things that culminated in 	/a lot of

MR BRINK: a lot of innocent people being killed.  It's really one of the most tragic things that has happened in our country.  But I just wanted to also point out the other - the other thing, that how it came about, and how we were mis-used.

MR BRINK: One final question, Mr Mitchell.  If I can refer you to Volume I, page 33, paragraph 150, and that relates to the then Minister of Law and Order, Mr Vlok.  You say that van den Heever told you that Vlok had told various policemen at a meeting that he had information or - information relating to various problems which had far-reaching implications.  Do you see that?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

MR BRINK: Did he - did van den Heever tell you what that was, what the information was?

WITNESS:   No, he mentioned that it was something that was said at a meeting, but I didn't want to prompt him because I know how it goes within the ranks.  They just say to you, "No, well we can't say."  You know, it becomes a need-to-know basis, and sometimes the less you know the better.

MR BRINK: Now, we know that there had been a cover-up in the initial investigations into the Trust Feed murder case.

WITNESS:   That is correct, Sir.

MR BRINK: Was van den Heever involved in your view?

WITNESS:   In the cover-up?

MR BRINK: No, in the murders.

WITNESS:   No.  No, he was not.

MR BRINK: He was not?

WITNESS:   No.

MR BRINK: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR BRINK: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

CHAIRPERSON: I'd like us to go back to the beginning of the events of that fateful night.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: When was the decision taken that this house or these houses were to be attacked?

WITNESS:   Sir, the decision was

CHAIRPERSON: /taken at

CHAIRPERSON: taken at a meeting at Morawa House in Pietermaritzburg when the leader of Inkatha and the vice-chairman of Inkatha and the Youth Brigade leader and myself went to the Riot Unit and we accompanied Captain Terblanche to

CHAIRPERSON: Morawa House.  At this meeting it was arranged that the unit would first do an operation in the area, and that night the attacks would take place.

CHAIRPERSON: When was that decision taken?

WITNESS:   The decision was taken for us to go to Morawa House.

CHAIRPERSON: The decision at Morawa House, when was that taken?

WITNESS:   I am not too sure - do you want to know the date that we went to Morawa House?

CHAIRPERSON: The date when it was decided that this attack should take place.

WITNESS:   I can't remember now, because it was prior - just prior to the attack.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Was it not on the 30th of November when you accompanied Mr Gabela to Mr Ntombela ... (incomplete)

WILSON J: Was it on the Wednesday?

WITNESS:   Yes, I think on the 30th that we went through.  It's the day that we went through to Pietermaritzburg.

MR DU TOIT: Mr Chairperson, I think the record will show that it was either on the 27th or the 29th of November.  It was either the 27th or the 29th of November.  It was just a couple of days before the Friday.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you the highest ranking policeman at this meeting where this decision was taken?

WITNESS:   No, Sir.  Captain Terblanche, as the head of the Riot Unit, was the person that set up the meeting, the person that took us there.  I've never been there before.  It was my first time to go there.  It was my first time to meet David Ntombela.  I've subsequently learnt a lot more about him

CHAIRPERSON: /from the

CHAIRPERSON: from the trial and after the trial, and then through certain statements that particularly are made in this one book.

CHAIRPERSON: Well now, the decision having been taken, let us now talk about the execution of that decision.  Were you in charge of the execution of that decision?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.  It was - yes, it was left in my hands as the station commander of the area, and the special constables were then placed in my area.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were you assisted by?

WITNESS:   In terms of my second in command, or ... (incomplete)

CHAIRPERSON: Can we have the names of the people that were immediately assisting you?

WITNESS:   Okay, in terms of the operation that was carried out the operation was - there was no other people from my station involved.  It was an operation that was done by myself entirely in co-operation with the Riot Unit.

CHAIRPERSON: In co-operation with the ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   In co-operation with the Riot Unit.

CHAIRPERSON: With the Riot Unit?

WITNESS:   That is correct, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How many comprised the Riot Unit on that occasion to carry out this particular operation?

WITNESS:   There was two operations.  There was the operation - the clean-up operation before in the morning.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

WITNESS:   And then that evening it was the four special constables and myself.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Now, the clean-up operation, were you involved in that as well?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.  We were involved in that as well.

CHAIRPERSON: That happened during the day.

WITNESS:   Yes, that happened in the morning, the morning before the attack

CHAIRPERSON: /took place.

CHAIRPERSON: took place.

CHAIRPERSON: And how many of you were involved in the clean-up operation?

WITNESS:   There was quite a lot.  There was - I'm just guessing now because it's a long time back.  It's - you know, it was in 1988, so I'm guessing that there must have been more than 40 people.

CHAIRPERSON: More than 40?

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And were many people arrested in this clean-up operation?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was - not in terms of that were detained, but in terms of they were taken out of the area and assembled on a rugby field, or on like a soccer field.  There was quite a lot that was taken out, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, then at that stage, this is at the clean-up operation stage, were the targets identified, the targets that were to be attacked later that day?

WITNESS:   Yes, they - what had happened was that we weren't very - and I personally was not really satisfied with the - that it was very successful because we didn't manage to pick up everybody that we were looking for.  It wasn't as successful an operation as I thought it would be.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

WITNESS:   But at the ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Was it - sorry.