Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

MRS MAGWACA: Yes I think it will because they were together.  Yes, it will because they were together.

MR SANDI: If I understood you well, quite clearly amongst your request to the Commission, your request is that they should investigate the death or disappearance of your husband.  Is there any other request to the community?

MRS MAGWACA: My request to the Commission I am very unhappy, I am not satisfied at all.

MR SANDI: Take your time.  Take your time, let me know when you are ready to continue, but on the whole we have covered everything.  I just wanted to ask what did the - did the authorities say your husband ran away when he was in Bethelsdorp?

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, yes, that's what they said.

MR SANDI: Is that all you want to say before I go on to Mr Billie?  Is that all?

MRS MAGWACA: My wish Commissioner I have kids who cannot do anything for themselves, they were very small still attending school and my kids, all my three kids, my older kids they ended up being delinquents because they lost their father, they couldn't attend school, they couldn't continue with their schooling because the person who was encouraging them and guiding them, they dropped out of school and then I experienced poverty because I depended on my husband and
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then I became poor and even my health has been affected.
 I still feel very bitter because I never had the chance to give my husband a funeral, so I would like to get his bones, what they did to him and where did they put him, I just want that information.  Even if I could just only get the remains, I am not satisfied at all.  I am not happy.
 Even though I accepted my fate, but I am still unhappy because I am thinking of the kids who are always asking about their father.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mrs Magwaca.  Mr Billie, briefly ...

MRS MAGWACA: Excuse me Commissioner, just one point, the other request that I would like to make is that the old regime, De Klerk's Government I want them to support me until I die.  Support me and my kids because my husband was supporting me, I don't know what they did to him, he never came back from prison.  He disappeared in their hands, now I want them to support me and my kids, that is my wish.

MR SANDI: Thank you.  Mr Billie, you were together with Mr Magwaca, can you just tell us briefly.

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: Thank you very much Commissioner.  I am happy to get the opportunity to give this statement.  In 1986, it was June, it was in 19.., Popi Magwaca came to my house, it was myself and Thando and Tutuzela Shlinga, Tutuzela Shlinga and Thando and Themboqozi Mbambani.
 When he came, of course at the time we knew that the police were looking for him, when he came, it was about eleven at night and we said to him, he shouldn't go home, we should just put up at my place together and that's what happened.
 We all put up at my place, all of us.  Towards five in the morning, if I remember correctly, he got up.  Popi
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Magwaca got up and he said he was going home just to check what the situation was at home.
 Indeed, Magwaca went, Popi Magwaca went, he said he was not going to stay, he was going to come back very soon, he wouldn't take long.  He would come and tell us what was going on.
 Indeed we waited for him.  At about six Sipho Futwa came and said to us you know whilst you guys are sitting here, people are being arrested outside by the Boers.  So I advise you to see what you can do, but don't stay here.  And so he left because he was rushing to work, because he was working at the time.
 We decided quite quickly that this, we wondered why this man was taking so long to return, because he had promised to come back quickly and suddenly thereafter we left to check what was happening as he said he was just going to check on the situation.
 Indeed we found him at his place, he was drinking a cup of tea and his wife, next to me here, was there.  It was not even ten minutes after we came, there was a knock on the front door and whilst we were just thinking about the knock, we rushed to the kitchen.

MR SANDI: Was the knock from the police?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: Yes, it was the police because Popi Magwaca, when he opened the door, the kitchen door and then we found someone pointing a gun at him, at his chest and they said, where is Popi Magwaca and he said no, Popi is not here, he has just left.
 They said no, you are laying, you are Popi.  And this policeman, the Black policeman, the Xhosa policeman, there was White one, a Boer, they came in, they shepherded us to 
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the front and we went outside.

MR SANDI: Were there any police that you knew amongst this?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: No.  No, I didn't know any of them.

MR SANDI: Is there so Sergeant that you've mentioned, the Black Sergeant that was mentioned in your statement, to say that he was there?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: I am coming to that point.  I am coming to that point.

MR SANDI: ; And so you were taken, where were you taken to?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: We were taken and there were 20 more other people, we were put into the van and then they took us away and there was another van following us, they took us to Algoa, Algoa police station.

MR SANDI: What did they say was the reason for your arrest?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: No we only heard when we got arrested that the reason for our arrest was arson, was burning of houses.

MR SANDI: You remained at Algoa Parks police station until when and what happened thereafter?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: When we got to Algoa we found a lot of other people who had already been arrested from our area.  And then the five of us were taken into the yard at Algoa Park and we were asked to face a big window.  They just pulled the curtain off and there was a policeman who just looked at us and said, it is them, it is them.

MR SANDI: Now all this time up to this point was Mr Magwaca still with you?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: Yes, yes, we were still with him.

MR SANDI: So how did you part with him at the police station?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: When these men identified us as, we were taken into another group and our names were taken to the
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register and thereafter, about in the afternoon, we were taken in the police vehicles and we were taken to Bethelsdorp, Bethelsdorp police station.

MR SANDI: When you say we, do you mean Mr Magwaca is also there?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: All of us together with the group that we found there.  And then we were taken to Bethelsdorp police station.

MR SANDI: Now did you say when you got to the police station at Bethelsdorp, Mr Magwaca was taken away from you?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: (tape starts) ... the youth were put next door to the one that the men were put in.  This was now Friday, it was the 20th of June.

MR SANDI: Now you say in your statement between the 23rd and the 24th of June, between three and four, Mr Magwaca was taken from his cell.  Which cell was this one, was it the one in which you also were in or was it another one where he was alone?

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: Popi Magwaca, some policemen came and when they came they made the mistake of coming to a cell in which we were while Mr Magwaca was not there.  They said they were looking for him, then we told them he was in the cell next door.  Indeed they went to that cell and then we heard the sound of the keys and that probably was the time when they took him away.
 From that time we had never met Popi Magwaca up to now.

MR SANDI: Which one of the policemen had the keys at the police station?