Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairman, I would like to greet you this afternoon and I would now like to swear in the following witnesses.  I would like Tembeka Nocawe Maki to stand.

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: (sworn states)

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: (sworn states)

ENOCH MALI: (sworn states)

XOLOKHAZI DANSTER: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you very much Chairperson, they have been sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntsiki Sandi?

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Let us start with Tembeka Nocawe Maki.  On the 21st of September 1989, is that date correct?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Yes, it is.

ADV SANDI: You say that you were shot in the hand, leg and thigh.  Which leg were you shot in, was it the left of the right one?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: The left leg.

ADV SANDI: Which thigh?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: The left thigh as well.

ADV SANDI: Could you please tell us who shot you, who you were with at the time of the shooting and what the
context was at the time?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Where we were, there was a toyi-toyi at the taxi rank.  We heard shots and I fell and had a blackout.  The police, Municipal police, took me and threw me in a police van and went to drop me at the old clinic office.

ADV SANDI: The municipal police, are these known as the Amangundwana?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: How old were you at the time?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I was 17 years old.

ADV SANDI: Were you a student?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Yes, I was a student.

ADV SANDI: And you say that you were shot, did an ambulance arrive at the scene?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: ; It arrived when I was at their office.

ADV SANDI: Did they take you to their office after you had been shot?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: What happened there?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I sat there while I was in pain and there was a lady from the Mavuso family who phoned an ambulance and it came to fetch me.  I was taken to the Provincial Hospital and my parents were called to sign the release forms for me to be transferred to Frere Hospital in East London and that was where it was found that I had this bullet in my leg.
 Two Coloured police women kept guard over me.  The one would come in from seven in the morning to seven in the evening and the other one would come in from seven in the evening to seven in the morning.  And on the 29th of September, I was taken and held in the cells in East London, the police cells.
 The police in East London  sent a paper and the police came to fetch me on the 1st of October from the cells in East London.

ADV SANDI: Which date and what was your state when you were taken to the cells?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: My leg was still swollen after the operation.

ADV SANDI: Did you tell them that you were still in pain?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I did tell them.

ADV SANDI: What did they say?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: They did not say anything, they did not pay any attention to me.

ADV SANDI: Did you appear in a court of law and was anyone charged?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I was charged with public violence for stoning a casper.  Who I remember were Kramkram, Nosiqova and Nozaki.

ADV SANDI: Do you know Kramkram's full names and also Nosiqova's full names?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: No, I know their nicknames.

ADV SANDI: Do you still see them in the community, do they still live there?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I live in another area.

ADV SANDI: What happened at court?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I was taken to court and charged and I was released on R100-00 bail.  The case was postponed several times.  My mother eventually took me to hospital on my one court date and it was found that this leg was still swollen.  We went to the Prosecutor and told the Prosecutor that the matter had to be postponed.

ADV SANDI: Was the matter eventually withdrawn?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Yes, it was eventually withdrawn in July 1990.

ADV SANDI: Was anyone arrested in connection with the shooting incident?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: No.

ADV SANDI: Who were they, as far as you know?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: I was told that it was Mthetheleli Nazo.

ADV SANDI: Was he also a policeman?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: At the time he shot at me, he was a Amangundwana, a municipal policeman.  One of the people that was toyi-toying with me, told me that.

ADV SANDI: Do you remember what happened with Mthetheleli and could you tell us?  You said that you would like an investigation into why Mthetheleli Nazo was never charged.

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: That is correct.

ADV SANDI: Do you remember any other requests that you would like made?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: No.

ADV SANDI: Do you have anything that you would like to ask this Commission now?  Is that all you would like to say?  Are you at school?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: No, I am not at school any more, because when the weather is bad, this leg swells up.  All these parts where I had been shot, swell up.

ADV SANDI: What standard were you when you dropped out of school?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Standard 7.

ADV SANDI: Why did you drop out?

TEMBEKA NOCAWE MAKI: Because I was in pain.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Tembeka Maki.  Let us now go to Mr David Nkosiyabo Ngidla.  Mr Ngidla, you were attacked on the 11th of march 1985?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: That is correct.

ADV SANDI: In Fort Beaufort?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: You were attacked by who, who attacked you?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Spongwazani.

ADV SANDI: What was he?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: He was a municipal policeman.

ADV SANDI: Who was he with?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: There were five of them.  I saw five of them.

ADV SANDI: Were they all municipal policeman?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: What did they attack you with?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: I was on my way to the shop and on my way back I did not see anyone, and it appears as though they jumped over fences and I just saw them in front of me.
 They shone a torch in my face and they were masked.  Some of them pointed firearms at me.  The other one had a torch that was shining in my face and then I just stood there and they did what they were going to do to me.
 And they struck me on my collarbone and they broke it.

ADV SANDI: Did they say anything while they were attacking you?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: No, they did not say anything but I let them assault me and fell down and when they left, I ran around the nearest corner.

ADV SANDI: You say they were all wearing balaclavas?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: The one whom you say you saw and you recognised who was he?  Did he also have on a balaclava?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes, he was the one that was in front of me that shone the torch in my face.

ADV SANDI: Did you go to hospital after you were assaulted?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes, I went to the Matlaqana house and they called Sylvia, a lady who worked at the hospital's son to take me to hospital in a kombi.

ADV SANDI: Are you still receiving medical treatment from the hospital?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes, and I receive medical treatment and I applied for a pension.

ADV SANDI: Have you received a pension yet?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: No, my documents got lost at some stage and I haven't since heard anything.

ADV SANDI: When did you apply for a pension?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: I applied last year.

ADV SANDI: Was anyone ever arrested for this?  Did you ever go to the police to lay a charge?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: The investigators came to me at the hospital and I told them.

ADV SANDI: Were they taken to court for that?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: No, nothing came of it.

ADV SANDI: Who did you lay the charge with at the charge office?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: No, the investigators took a statement from me while I was in the hospital.

ADV SANDI: Who was the investigator who took your statement?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: It was Nkenke and Nzimqa.

ADV SANDI: Are they still in Fort Beaufort?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes, they are.

ADV SANDI: Didn't they ever come back to let you know what happened to the case?