Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

MR BERGER: Why did you say that an instruction was given on the 10th of June 1992, if no such instruction was given?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The instruction I'm referring to is that we were told that there will be an attack but Boipatong was not mentioned.

CHAIRPERSON: When was that?  Was that the second meeting?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, the second meeting.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, I asked you whether these were your words, you say that they were read back to you and that they were correct.  My question to you is, why did you say that instructions were given both on the 10th of June and on the 17th of June, that Boipatong must be attacked?

MR STRYDOM: I object to that question, that is not what is stated here.  What is stated here is that, and I'm going to read it in Afrikaans
'n Bevel deur leiers van die IFP, woonagtig in die kwaMadala Hostel, dat Boipatong aangeval moet word.  Bevele is gegee op die 10de en 17de Junie"
It does not state that the order to attack Boipatong was given on the 10th and on the 17th of June.

CHAIRPERSON: Just come again?

MR STRYDOM: It's not stated here that the order to attack Boipatong was given on the 10th and the 17th of June.  Orders were given on the 10th and 17th of June, that is what is stated here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, I'll ask you the question again, why did you state here in 11(b), that orders were given on the 10th and 17th of June 1992?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: What I'm trying to explain is that I said we were informed that there was a possibility of an attack on that day, I don't deny that.  What I deny is that we were told that we were going to attack a specific place at a particular time.

MR BERGER: Let me ask you this, what instruction were you given on the 10th of June 1992?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The instruction was that we should stay vigilant and be prepared and ready, that is all.

MR BERGER: Be prepared and ready for what Mr Khanyile?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Mr Berger, when they say: "Get ready", meaning that your arms or weapons should be next to you, even a young child will understand that.

MR BERGER: It means: get ready for an attack does it not?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's what I understood it to mean.

MR BERGER: And what did you understand or who did you understand was going to be the target of that attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I didn't know exactly as to the particular which we were to attack because the whole Vaal was an enemy to us.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were given these instructions during the second meeting, namely that: "be prepared for the attack", did you think who was going to be the target of the pending attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say even if I wasn't sure I thought Boipatong is one of the possible targets because that is one of the places where they were killing us.

MR BERGER: But it might not have been Boipatong, is that what you're saying, it could have been anywhere else?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's possible.

MR BERGER: Where else could there have been an attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: As I've explained, the whole Vaal wasn't treating us well.

MR BERGER: So as far as you were concerned you could quite equally have attacked Bophelong, Sharpeville, Sebokeng, any of those townships you could have attacked?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That is also possible but I have already clarified that on those days or during those times, the people who were burning us with tyres were people from Boipatong.

MR BERGER: No the other townships, just Boipatong, is that what you're saying now?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I said the whole Vaal was killing us, but on those days the people who were really busy killing us were people from Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Which day or days are you referring to?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I'm referring to the days towards the attack.

MR BERGER: Are you not forgetting another meeting Mr Khanyile, a meeting which was held on Sunday the 14th of June 1992 at kwaMadala Hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: If Mr Berger can remind me what was said in the meeting I might remember.

MR BERGER: Well you've remember a meeting three weeks before the attack, you've remembered a meeting one week before the attack, do you know remember a meeting three or four days before the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't remember the meeting.

MR BERGER: Let me refresh your memory, it was a meeting addressed by Mr Themba Xhosa, do you remember it?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I still don't remember such a meeting.  To explain Mr Berger, I wasn't going to be able to remember all the meetings because some meetings happened while I was present, some while I was away.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khanyile, please speak up because I can't hear you.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I was trying to explain to Mr Berger that some meetings occurred in my absence while some meetings occurred while I was present but I did attend all the meetings that were held at kwaMadala Hostel.

MR BERGER: At some stage in your evidence you said that you never left kwaMadala Hostel, you never went into Boipatong, you stayed in kwaMadala Hostel, do you remember that?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's true.

MR BERGER: Now on the Sunday before the attack, that's the 14th of June, Themba Xhosa and a Mr Dlamini came to kwaMadala and addressed the people in the stadium and it was a meeting where only the men were present.  Dlamini apparently opened the meeting and he said: "The meeting had been called because our people are dying".  He said that this problem had been reported to Mangasutu Buthelezi.  Themba Xhosa also addressed the meeting.  I'm reading from an affidavit from Mr Victor Mthembu and this is what he says Themba Xhosa said
"He was also angry at the killing of his people and he said: "if the people come and attack you, you are supposed to fight back and kill them'"
Surely Mr Khanyile, you remember this meeting?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: As I have already stated, I don't remember this particular meeting and it is clear that I wasn't present.

MR BERGER: How could you not have been present?  Let's look at the context: you and the other men have been instructed to be on the alert for an attack, you understood that to mean an attack on the residents of Boipatong, you never went out of the hostel, you remained in the hostel, three days before the attack there is this meeting where important issues are being discussed, where were you on that Sunday preceding the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Mr Berger, even if I can't remember exactly where I was on that particular day, I would like to explain that.  The fact that I was staying at kwaMadala doesn't mean that I wasn't invited to visit other people or that I didn't have a girlfriend whom I could visit.

MR BERGER: What we know Mr Khanyile ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, it's about 5 o'clock, will you please wrap it up now?

MR BERGER: I'll wrap it up now.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BERGER: What we know Mr Khanyile, is that on your own evidence you were in the hostel on that Sunday, correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I never said that.

MR BERGER: But you said you never left the hostel, therefore you must have been there?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Sir, I thought you said since I was staying at kwaMadala, I never went to Boipatong or other places.  I was referring like, that you mean that I never went out of kwaMadala to go wherever I wished to go.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, I'll wrap it up now, you cannot tell the Committee where you were on Sunday the 14th of June, is that correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I believe Mr Berger, you yourself personally, if I were to ask you where were you on the 14th of June, you won't be able to answer that question because I think you only remember a day if there was a particular incident that's so ...[indistinct] to make you remember it.