Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think it's really necessary because what he's giving is also hearsay evidence and I don't think it would be advisable to consult with fellow applicants on a question of hearsay.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Do you know why that family was attacked?

MR MBAMBO: They were attacked simply for the reason that they were ANC members.

MR NGUBANE: And the people that attacked them, were they all members of the KwaZulu Police?

MR MBAMBO: They were members of the hit squad and the other one whom I said committed suicide was a Caprivian as well and they did this following the instructions of the leader of the IFP at Gobandlovo, a leader who had a Spurs shop at H2 eSikhawini at the Umzumeli garage complex.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Ngubane, where is the Gobandlovo that the applicant is referring to?  Is it in the surroundings of eSikhawini?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you.  Now the other incident which I asked Mr Mkhize about was the incident of Dan Ndlovo and a Mabiga girl that were burnt at the hall, do you know about that incident?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, I know about this incident, the ones who were burnt in a car.

MR NGUBANE: Yes.  Tell the Committee and the members of the public what you know about that please.

MR MBAMBO: I would like to explain here because I would not explain anything further here because on arrival the car had already been burnt but I know that they were burnt by people that I know.  That was the day prior to the march that we spoke about, the big march.  	Beasts had been slaughtered at S Hall in preparation for the rally the following day and local level leaders at eSikhawini's surroundings were also present at the Shlanganani Hall.  There were also members of our hit squad present, people like Israel Hlongwane, Victor Buthelezi and others.
	They were also the ones whom we referred to as Inkapi who came from Johannesburg being brought by Themba Xhosa.  These are the people who killed these people together with Israel Hlongwane.  Israel is the one who can explain this better to the Committee.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you very much.   There is another incident which occurred at Mzuzwane's shebeen, do you know anything about that, where Mr Mathaba was injured, Leonard Mathaba?

MR MBAMBO: No, I don't know.

MR NGUBANE: It could be one of those incidents where ANC areas were attacked but you didn't know who actually was injured in that incident, is that right?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Yesterday you mentioned a lady by the name of Vera Zulu who was injured during the operations, do you remember?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: And do you recall that she was taken to the ICU?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, I do.

MR NGUBANE: And is it correct that you at some stage visited the ICU?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: The Intensive Care Unit?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: What was your purpose of going there because she instructs me that she was terrified when she saw you there, can you just explain why you went there?

MR MBAMBO: It was not Vera Zulu who was at the hospital on that day, there were also others who were injured that very same night at eSikhawini.  And because our members had attacked that area it transpired that some escaped, survived.
	I came as a detective to get statements from these people and to try and establish as to whether they could identify the people who were launching the attack and if that's the case, if they knew the people who attacked them I would then do my job by saying: "The victims don't know the people who attacked them".

MR NGUBANE: Thank you.  The last question is, you mentioned a certain driver by the name of Xele who was from the Chief Minister's Department who furnished you with a motor vehicle to undertake certain missions, did he explain to you how it came about that he had this official motor vehicle from the Chief Minister's Department to all these dirty works?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, he did explain.

MR NGUBANE: Can you explain to us what he told you?

MR MBAMBO: He explained to us that Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi heard our complaints and concerns that we didn't have vehicles to carry out the duty of attacking the ANC in large numbers and therefore Mr M Z Khumalo together with Mr Mangosuthu Buthelezi made this car available from the Department of the Chief Minister so that this car be brought to us at eSikhawini to enable us to carry out the duties that we were expected to do.  	And they also gave him these two guns to add to what guns we already had.  The car was a white kombi with a registration of ZG1- and other numbers thereafter.  The ZG1 explains that this is a vehicle from the Department of The Chief Minister.  And the two guns were AK47's and an Uzzi sub-machine gun.

MR NGUBANE: Mr Chairman, I'm sorry I said it was the last question I was asking, I just received a note here so can I just ask for a short adjournment because I don't understand the import of what is written here, so that I can instructions?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly Mr Ngubane.  We'll take a short adjournment to enable Mr Ngubane to take some instructions.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR MBAMBO: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: I think if we can proceed.

MR NGUBANE: I'm indebted to you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mbambo, do you of any policeman by the name of Makhunsu who was involved in the hit squad activities?

MR MBAMBO: Makhunsu?

MR NGUBANE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What was that name again?

MR NGUBANE: Makhunsu: M-A-K-H-U-N-S-U.

MR MBAMBO: No, I don't.

MR NGUBANE: If you can recall, can you assist me, do you remember the incident on the 1st of May 1993 when the Mathaba family of Langeso was attacked?

MR MBAMBO: No, I don't know of that incident.

MR NGUBANE: And you have never heard about it, is that right?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Ngubane, I'm sorry to be coming in at this time, I think we have allowed you some attitude to ask questions which do not impinge directly on the offences in respect of which amnesty is being sought by the applicant, so I am not with you with regard to the names that you have put forward to this witness, whether they have any relation whatsoever to do with the offences in respect of which they are seeking amnesty.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Member of the Committee, my understanding is that the applicants have applied for amnesty in respect specific incidents and in respect of other incidents about which they may be ...[indistinct] but which they might have forgotten and that is why I had to ask about these incidents.

SISI KHAMPEPE: If that is the ambit of your question, I think you have the right to ask those questions.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you very much.  May I just point out that in fact there are no more incidents I'm going to ask about except to put to you Mr Mbambo that I've been requested by Mrs Zulu, who is in a wheelchair in front of you, to advise you that she is one of the people that were injured when you attacked the Set me Free shebeen and there were a number of people that were attacked along the road after that incident, is that a correct account of what happened on that day?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And were you one of the people that stopped her as she was coming from the university, conversed with her and then shot her?

MR MBAMBO: I was not with the group that attacked, I was only given an instruction to give them weapons and how they should proceed.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NGUBANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.

MR MBAMBO: I would like to pass words of apology to Miss Zulu even though I was not present at the scene, I am involved in your attack and your injury.  I regret this and I sincerely apologise for causing or rather for being the cause of the situation that you are in today.  I request you to find it in your heart to forgive me.  I am very sorry.