Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-11-16

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you go to a witch then and say "look here, I will pay you like these people pay you, give me something to make me overthrow the government because that is my aim"?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: As far as I'm concerned, during those days I was not in need of powers which I could find by using muti.  What we were trying to do is that people with fight powers shall not continue to exercise such powers.  It's not that I was aiming to get those powers.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, I'm going to ask a straight question, those actions that day, were those directed at eradicating witchcraft for witchcraft reasons in the area or were they directed at eradicating or reducing the power of witchcraft because they assisted the politicians?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes what?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I'm agreeing that what happened that day was directed to making sure that witchcraft is no longer practised because it was stopping us in overpowering the government of Venda which by then we thought it was being protected by muti which they used to receive from the Sangomas.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Okay, so part of the problem that you had at the time is that you found that some activists were mysteriously dying, can you remember testifying that?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I did mention that is true.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And the impression that you had and also the other people had was these activists were actually killed by the witches in order to further the aims of the politicians, is that correct?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: To put it clearly I can say that people who were in the Venda government, high officials, the rulers were using witches and Sangomas to destroy the activists who were present to ensure that or because they know that if they send Sangomas or witches because they were working hand in hand to destroy the activists it means that they were going to be weak people to oppose the government so it means that a person who was in power was going to be affected in no way in the death of the activists so it was our - we were obliged to follow the witches instead of the rulers.

ADV DE JAGER: Okay, could you tell me the name of the activist that's been killed?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I know two of them.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, give me the names?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: The first one is Pandele Ramaru.

ADV DE JAGER: How old?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: By then he was 21 years old.

ADV DE JAGER: The other one?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: The other one is called Tihuri weInzene.

ADV DE JAGER: How old?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Plus minus 25 years.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry and how did these activists die, how were they killed?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: The other one was struck by lightning when they were from school.

ADV SIGODI: Yes?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: And the other one was a person that day he just fell down and then he died and he was not sick.

ADV SIGODI: And what role were they playing politically, these two people, what was their role?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: These guys most of the time they were recruiting people and to show people the policies of the ANC and the PAC, to show the people that we have this kind of organisations which are permitting us these kind of things so to a certain extent if we support them they will help us while they will be in power.

ADV SIGODI: You say the policy of both the ANC and the PAC?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes, the other one was a supporter of the ANC and the other one was a supporter of the PAC, that is why they were guiding us on those two different organisations.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the PAC and the ANC work together?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Those days or during that time, I don't know that they were co-operating but simply because we were all under the apartheid government, people tended to believe that PAC and ANC co-operated or worked together because those two organisations were banned and their leaders were in exile.

CHAIRPERSON: And then both parties recruiting offices in the area died?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Those people were supporters, they were not card carrying members, in other words it means they were trying to unite ...(indistinct) for us, the Blacks, so that we can understand the direction of the politics of the country.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Now except for these two activists that you have mentioned, are you aware of any other activists that were killed or went missing?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I only remember of a certain child whom we just thought on our own that this child when she grows she will be an activist is the one who was missed and I've forgotten her name or his name because the incident happened quite long ago.

MR VAN RENSBURG: What was the age of that child?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yesterday I mentioned that she was 12 to 13 years.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Are you saying that she wasn't an activist yet but she was about to become an activist?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes, this child that is on our own perception.  We used to call her or him the activist because she used to show that in the meetings she used to participate and she was interested in asking questions here and there.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Let me ask you this, don't you think the government would have rather benefited from killing you rather than a thirteen year old child?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I think the government would have benefited.

MR VAN RENSBURG: So can you then explain how the cause of the government was furthered by killing this thirteen year old child?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: In that child we can't say that the government participated.  The government only participated in ensuring that the true activists mentioned above must be killed but with this child it was a jealousy by the witches, that is why they led her or him into getting missed and including with the case of this child it makes the situation to be worse.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Now can you just explain that, I don't understand how it was the jealousy of the witches that killed the child?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: In the case of this child considering his or her age because he was twelve or thirteen years it means that we thought she was under age and she was not having that clear ideas that she can be an activist to such an extent.  It means the part played in her being killed I think it was the jealousy by witches because she was intelligent.

ADV DE JAGER: So that had nothing to do with the politics of the day and the government being kept in power?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: It participated after the missing of this child.  Many things we would try to just not do anything about it, sometimes we just kept quiet sometimes we tried to talk to the government and the government refused but in our village the missing of this child made things to be worse and we vowed to make sure that this government must be ungovernable.

ADV DE JAGER: But isn't it still happening today that children disappear?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes but it might be happening but not to extent of what was happening in the past.

ADV DE JAGER: So it had nothing to do with politics?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I didn't understand that, could you please repeat your question?

ADV DE JAGER: It's still things that's been happening up to this present day and it happened long in the past, it had nothing to do with politics?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Now it might not link with politics but in the past it was identical with politics which was happening here in Venda.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	This child, this thirteen year old child that vanished, you testified that that child was last seen in the company of Mr Maphaha, is that correct?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes that is correct.