Amnesty Hearings — Mabopane — 1998-08-06

MR MASANGO: It could have been about 5 o'clock or so but when I dropped Makhura it could have been about 5 o'clock or even 6 o'clock.  I dropped him there and ordered him to observe the house there to see who is coming in, who is going out.
	The car was there if I remember well.  We dropped Makhura there and I told him that I'm going to collect the arms now.  I went to collect Justice, I told him to get his arms also, I told him that we were going to do Molope this evening, Moreki is - Makhura is observing the house.   And then we also brought along Makhura's weapon, an AK47.  
	I parked the car on the other side of the street, just the second street from Molope's but I drove through just to show them where the house is.  I showed Makhura before, just to show Justice and then gave them the layout of the house and also told them that: "There is a child there, Molope's child and there is a woman there: don't hurt those people, you can go ahead with Molope."  They did that.
	I parked on the other side of the street.  It could have been about 7 o'clock or so but it was in the dark. It was dark then, and then after a few minutes I heard some gunshots, then they came to the car and we drove away.
	The following day, or later, I'm not exactly sure ...[indistinct] the following day, but I did go to Masina to report to him that the mission has been successful.

MR VAN DEN BERG: What was the response to Molope's death?

MR MASANGO: As I've said that we were underground but physically we were above ground we were interacting with the people.  There was an overwhelming jubilation that Molope was done and actually we even heard the people in Winterveld saying that whoever did this, this could have been done as well to Mokobojane.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Can I return you to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, one of the victims is in distress.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, may I suggest a short adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, we'll take a short adjournment.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Masango, I just remind you that you are still under your former oath.

F T T MASANGO: (s.u.o.)

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	I think you've completed telling the Committee about the operation.  I have just two or three things that I wanted to ask you.  Just to return to the question of the target identification and the investigation in respect of Brigadier Molope.  What information did you have about him and where did you obtain it from?

MR MASANGO: Well as I've said I was the political commissar of the people and we were freely interacting with the people of Winterveld.  Obviously one would have firstly got the information from, because I was personally not there at the massacre, I would have got the information from the media, whatever media.  After that you'd talk to the people, not necessarily exposing yourself as to who you are, you would talk to them because we were meeting with them, they were telling us and more so I have said that I had a relationship, an affair with a resident of Winterveld who was telling me all these things without exposing myself to her, my real identification.
	During that interaction with the people we discovered that Molope was more involved actually than the massacre itself.  We knew that he was responsible for setting up roadblocks.  We knew that each and every political activity against Mangope's Bantustan there, he will be the first one, amongst the first ones to stand up and fight against the people.
	We knew of students who were arrested.  We knew of many people who were tortured in prison, Molope and Mokobojane were there.

MR VAN DEN BERG: And these were people that you spoke with?

MR MASANGO: Yes.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Who related their personal experiences?

MR MASANGO: Exactly.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Did you know Brigadier Molope personally?

MR MASANGO: No, no, no.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Did you receive any financial reward for being involved in his death?

MR MASANGO: Not at all.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Is there anything that you want to say at this point in your application about the incident?

MR MASANGO: Ja, there are quite a number of things I'd like to say, particularly to the family of Molope.  That during our investigation the police first, I remember they asked me if we had any contact with the  Boputhatswana Police who might have given us information as to where Molope stays or so and so we said no, because they suspected that the police were involved in the assassination of Molope. 	And then they were sure, they were clear that we were not in contact with the Boputhatswana Police.
	Then the second, if not the prime suspect, was the wife of Molope herself.  They came to us and said: "Hasn't Mrs Molope paid you or hired you to go and kill her husband because she might have discovered that he was having an illicit affair"?  We said: "No, no, we don't even know a Mrs Molope", but she was always the suspect, that I must say.
	Besides that I'm appearing here as a dedicated member of the ANC with the understanding of the necessity of the reconciliation in our country and unity as well.  It is in that regard that I will say to the, I would extend my warm hand of friendship and reconciliation to Mrs Molope and her children, Brigadier Molope's children and also to the child who was born out of this illicit affair.  
	I also extend my warm hand of reconciliation and friendship to the child because in our culture, our African culture, there is no such a thing as an illegitimate child, all our children are legitimate.  It is in that regard that I extend my hand of friendship and reconciliation to them.
	Having said that I would say to the family of Molope that they too have a role to play in this general endeavour of reconciliation in our country.  It was the struggle, it was the war, people were dying, people were disappearing, people were burnt and unfortunately one member of their family, Brigadier Molope was on the wrong side of the struggle.  It was either him or us.  It was the struggle.
	So it is also their responsibility to reconcile, not only with my or my comrades behind me but with the families of all of Molope's victims, particularly the families of the massacre victims, those he has detained, those he has ordered to be tortured, those he has harassed and caused to leave the country, they must also reconcile with them.  It is necessary for the reconciliation in our country and unity in general.  I think that is all I want to say.
	Let me quickly add that I have said things that might have hurt some of the family.  I'm appearing here required to reveal everything in detail.  Everything that I've said was not meant to hurt them, I had to say whatever I recollect, whatever I know of that incident.  Nothing was aimed at hurting them, so they should take it in that regard.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Then you will answer any questions which either the Committee or the family has to put to you?

MR MASANGO: Sure, I will definitely do so.

MR VAN DEN BERG: I have no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DEN BERG

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr van den Berg.
	Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I do Mr Chairman, thank you.
	Mr Masango, if you have the application before you I want to refer you to page 11.
	The paginated pages Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have the application?  What you have there Mr Masango, is it just your application?

MR MASANGO: These are supplementary statements of myself.  Could this be the one?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it's page 11, it's page 2 of that supplementary statement you're being referred to.

MR MASANGO: Page 2.  Ja, I've got it.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I want you to have a look at 5.5.

MR MASANGO: 5.5., ja?