Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-25

COMMENTARY: ... bring down the Government by violent means if sanctions imposed against 
South Africa.  This was one of the most dramatic sabotage attacks they have carried out, the bombing of 
the Sasolburg Oil Refinery near Johannesburg five years ago.  There has been a whole series of attacks on 
police stations and military targets over the years, but the Government has always insisted they don't 
amount to much more than flea bites.  Even so President Botha would have to force President Machel into 
agreeing to shut down ANC bases in Mozambique next door to South Africa.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is the end of the video.  If I could call Captain Hechter 
very shortly on this, if you would allow me to.

HASSAN MALL: Yes, all right.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: (s.u.o)

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Hechter, can you please state very briefly to the 
Committee the background to the video recording and what it was used for?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, the video and similar material was shown to various members of 
the police force.  This video and similar video's were shown on a number of courses to the persons 
attending the course.   Some contained worse violence, some less violence, all the members of the Security 
Forces were exposed to video's containing crowd violence and crowd control and then Black on Black 
violence in the Black townships.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 104

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Hechter were these video's used in training of policemen?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct.

ADV DU PLESSIS: And Captain Hechter, were the video's which were shown during video's of the same 
nature and if you were to look back on them today, would you regard them as propaganda or what would 
you regard them to be?

UNKNOWN: They were definitely propaganda, but I also have to add that most of that which 
we have seen on the video's were also experienced by us, these incidents in the Black townships while 
working there.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Hechter, can you tell the Committee from your own personal experience are 
there incidents similar to what you have seen on this video that you experienced yourself and to what 
extent and how regularly?

UNKNOWN: It is correct.  Mr Chairman as members of the Security Branch, myself and 
colleagues experienced these things first hand and we also found that many of these violent incidents and 
this violence, also affected Black
colleagues of ours and affected their lives and their houses.
	On a daily basis we also found some of these people next to the road.  You would find a Black 
man lying next to the road who had been murdered, either by necklacing or by stabbing.  Many of these 
acts were committed by very young comrades who - these things were later determined in investigations 
and we were informed of whom had been involved in the previous night's attack on a house or necklacing.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain, these incidents and similar ones 
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 105

UNKNOWN: to what we've seen here, for example the crowd rioting, the necklacing etc, did these take place against the 
political background?  Could you give us a bit more information on this?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it was purely politics by the comrades, so-called comrades, which was 
used by the ANC as cannon fodder, these people were used as cannon fodder by the ANC.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay, Captain so the effect that exposure to this kind of violence had on you and 
your colleagues, could you sketch to the Committee in more detail what it was like?

UNKNOWN: Well, after a while you grew cold and distant when you saw this kind of action 
and you encountered it.  It no longer really involved people, it was just another body.  In the beginning you 
were shocked and shaking, but later on it just became just another corpse.  It left you cold.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Hechter, are you aware of any instances of your colleagues who 
sustained psychological damage because of this?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct.  There are a number of
my colleagues who are at present receiving psychological treatment, many who have been under such 
treatment, many who have left the police service because of psychological problems, who were medically 
boarded from the service. There are numerous of them.  I would say that most of the Security Police who 
took medical packages did so because of trauma and stress levels which were brought about by this kind of 
exposure.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Are you personally aware of such instances?
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 105

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct, Mr Chairman.  One of our colleagues who are sitting here 
with us, Captain Mentz, is presently undergoing treatment.  The well-known Snor Vermeulen and Lionel 
Snyman were both boarded because of stress related incidents or because of stress.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay, you don't have to continue with more examples.  Captain, and can you inform 
the Committee whether in the period relating to these incidents for which you are applying for amnesty, 
when they took place in the middle 80's, could you give us a broad estimate of the regularity of exposure to 
this kind of incident of violence?

UNKNOWN: It was really on a daily basis and as at the time, the Press was totally banned 
from entering the Black townships, so this kind of incident, or these incidents which kept occurring, were 
never broadcast to the broad public in South Africa.  The public didn't really know what was going on, they 
were kept under the impression that things were under control, whereas violence was escalating on a daily 
basis at a tremendous rate.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain, are you aware of any similar kind of video of the South African Police 
action which are still in existence, any of these video's?

UNKNOWN: As I told you they were training video's which I later got to understand when I 
was trying to obtain  more of them, had been destroyed together with the documentation because the 
instruction had been given that all video's containing this kind of violent activity had to be destroyed in 
order to obtain better cooperation among the population groups, to bring this about and then also to show 
less violence to the members who were in training.

ADV DU PLESSIS: I don't have any other questions, Mr 
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 106

UNKNOWN: Chairman, thank you.
NO FURTHER

<UNKNOWN>: S BY

ADV DU PLESSIS: .

MR CURRIN: I just have one question.  During the training sessions that you referred to when these 
videos were shown, I assume that it was never part of your training that you, the police should commit acts 
of violence?

UNKNOWN: Not at all.

<UNKNOWN>: PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 107

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, may we then proceed with Captain Mentz' 
evidence?  Thank you.  Mr Chairman you will find that on page 53.

WILLEM WOUTER MENTZ: (s.u.o.)

ADV DU PLESSIS: Very well, Captain Mentz, your application with regards to 
this incident has been set out in the compilation of applications and there are further aspects which you 
would like to inform the Committee about.  Could you just tell the Committee about them?