Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, I could explain it as such.  To effectively penetrate criminal networks in places where it would matter and I'm not talking about your average mandrax merchant because they're a dime a dozen, to infiltrate persons who had actual access, firstly to establish yourself in a convincing manner, you would have to do illegal things necessarily, there would be no way in which such persons would trust you if you just told them a story or tried to con them.  That is not the way it worked.  Secondly, unfortunately it is the case that when one is with such persons, one would have to acquire their language, one would have daily contact with them and one would be tested.  Sometimes that test would be the ultimate thing and you could of course refuse and withdraw but that wouldn't leave you anywhere, so you would have to be prepared to go the extra mile.

MR COETZEE: And did you go the extra mile so to speak?

FERDINAND BARNARD: To the limit.

MR COETZEE: What did that include?

FERDINAND BARNARD: By nature of the situation Chairperson, I began by committing minor crimes and offences, with these persons.  I would recruit someone who is a truck driver bringing mandrax in from Zambia because there was a limited number of methods in which to smuggle things into the Republic, so I would depart from the point that I would approach that truck driver because I linked the mandrax smugglers with that man.  If he told me that he wanted an AK47 or whatever, I would see to it that he would get whatever it is that he wants.  I knew that it would be for an illegal reason, but I would make sure that he would get it and at the end of the day it went as far as my addiction to cocaine, which was more with DCC than when I was at the CCB, but I was highly addicted to cocaine.

MR COETZEE: You have just mentioned this example.  You became involved in offences which were not necessarily within the context of political application.  Do I understand you correctly?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes.

MR COETZEE: This is all very interesting Mr Barnard, but what is the political connection to this?  What was of Governmental interest?  It was definitely not crime prevention when it came to your application in the CCB and later DCC?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No, that's what the police is there for.  The reason behind it was that MK and the PAC and there were studies about this, it was conveyed to me as such, that they were in close liaison with one another.  Any organisation, a liberation movement or even the police would have a criminal element and I had to focus on that.  The connection between MK and crime, APLA and crime, that is what it was about.

MR COETZEE: And did you glean any valuable information from this?  Was there anything which was worth while, or was it simply an idle waste of time?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No, Chairperson, for the times in which we were living, we had many successes.

MR COETZEE: Very well, Mr Barnard, after the CCB was disbanded and after the DCC was also disbanded due to the Goldstone Commission's exposure of these elements, what happened?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, they consistently denied that I was involved with any of these organisations and when the bomb exploded, I was left behind just like that.  Nobody did anything to help me out of the situation that I found myself in, there was no debriefing, there was rehabilitation of any nature whatsoever.  What happened was that the weak, spineless politicians of that time ran away and they sat like the proverbial three little monkeys, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.  They ran away.  They ran away with their tails between their legs, like the cowards that they are.

MR COETZEE: And you yourself, what did you do?  The following day after the exposure of the DCC, did you put on a suit of clothing and get a job?  Did you sell cars?  What did you do?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I couldn't do that, Chairperson, I was in a situation where on a daily basis I committed crimes.  I led two lives, one was the life of a criminal, the other was the actual life that I had and at a certain point there was no more distinction for me.  I will admit readily today that I committed crimes which had absolutely nothing to do with politics.  You don't just become a cocaine addict and a crack addict with a habit of R2,000 a day and then just leave it.  I did everything, everything that they have said about me is the truth and then some.

MR COETZEE: Now Mr Barnard, you are here today before the Amnesty Committee, you have been sentenced to two life sentences and something like 63 years imprisonment.  You have applied for indemnity regarding the attempted murder of Adv and now Minister Dullah Omar and Bruce White, in as far as they may be  offences or crimes.  What is your purpose?  Why are you here today?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson I submitted this application and not with regard to the other charges, whether they were politically motivated or not, the only reason why I submitted this application as I can recall, is because I knew that Slang van Zyl had already disclosed this in previous affidavits and had incriminated me in these affidavits, otherwise I would never have done so.  It was not my initial plan to apply.  I simply did it because I thought it would create a safety net for me because I felt that if there was any future situation I would be able to testify if Slang van Zyl gave such evidence.

MR COETZEE: And today, what is your reason today?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Initially I didn't want anything to do with the TRC or amnesty process, I was still caught up in an old thought pattern but due to events which have taken place here, especially during the previous two week session of the Amnesty Committee, I was shocked to my very core.  It led me to re-think everything and to re-evaluate everything and I decided that for the first time in 12 years, in the spirit of reconciliation, I would tell the truth.  That is why I am here, in the spirit of reconciliation.

MR COETZEE: What do you want to tell the Committee?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, in all the time that I was involved in both these organisations, I was under the impression because I was indoctrinated and brain-washed and I'm not trying to escape my own accountability, I was under the impression that what I did was justifiable in terms of the struggle that was waged during that period in time.
And that is basically all I can say.

MR COETZEE: As you have already stated, upon various occasions you have lied regarding what took place and your involvement in things that took place.  Why would anybody believe you now?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, I am not here to keep others happy.  I am now doing what I feel is right, what I feel I should do.  I am prepared to take a polygraph test for the evidence that I am giving here any time, in front of the television cameras, I will take the test, that will indicate that I am certain of the fact that I am telling the truth.

MR COETZEE: Let us go to your tasks within the CCB.  We have heard that you established a blue plan.  You received your pagers, your post boxes, what was the first project or task that you received from the CCB?

FERDINAND BARNARD: The first that I can recall is that I recruited a person by the name of McQuillan.  If I recall, that was the very first and I think it was in October 1988.  During that time, October 1988, Lafras Luitingh made certain overtures to me regarding recruitment in the organisation.  He also gave me false identity documents, a false passport, a police appointment certificate and it was also during this time that I rented the apartment in Ponti under his instruction under the name van Staden, so my active period began in October and during October I also recruited McQuillan.

MR COETZEE: You have referred to the name van Staden.  Was that your false name?