Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-11-03

MR MAPOMA: Just a few Chairperson.   Chairperson, I have listened carefully to the submissions that have been made by those appearing for the victims.   I would like Chairperson, just to make a few comments.  In particular sir,  that when the Committee determines this application, it is important that the context within which these acts happened, must be taken into account.   I am saying so because Chairperson, the provisions of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act particularly Section 20(3) sets out the criteria that must be taken into account in determining as to whether an act is an act associated with a political objective.     Amongst those criteria the political motive is supposed to be taken into account as well as the context within which the acts took place.  It may well be argued that the ANC decried violence against other political organisations within the land, but the matter does not end there because if you look into the political motive, one cannot negate the fact that these actions were politically motivated.   It is common cause Chairperson, that in particular regarding to the APLA 5, that they were members of APLA, they were trained as such.  It is common cause as well that during that period, there
was a conflict, a fierce conflict between the ANC, SDU's and the PAC in the form of APLA.  In a way that is almost common cause in this house.  It is unfortunate that those conflicts resulted in this particular actions.  I have taken into account as well Chair, the submission which was made that the decision to kill the APLA 5, was prompted by a desire to evade prosecution and nothing else, but there is an alternative explanation that has been tendered by the applicants to the effect that not only that, whilst they concede that it may be well be that they did not want to be prosecuted, but as well, they did anticipate that should they release them, there was anticipated a counter-attack onto them.  Even if, for that matter, Chairperson, it can be argued that amongst the reasons, they were avoiding prosecution, given those times, prosecution itself to a great extent, would hinder their political objective if they were to be prosecuted at that time, given their role in the area, particularly Guleni because he was a leader there.  If he were to be arrested, that to a certain extent would hinder the political process of their own organisation.  In a way Chairperson, I would certainly argue that it is very difficult to say these particular actions were not politically motivated.  Regarding Mr Mapipa, it is also accepted that he was a prominent member of the PAC in that area and there was this conflict that was there.  In a way, as well ...

CHAIRPERSON: Is that common cause?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, in fact Mr Mgxaji has argued, I mean has mentioned that he was a former Robben Islander, a PAC leader in Port St Johns, and unless I ...

CHAIRPERSON: I will check that with him.  You carry on.

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.  That being the case, I am saying it is very difficult really to say there was no political motivation.  I would not deal Chairperson, with the question of full disclosure.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mgxaji, tell me the question of membership of the PAC on the part of Mr Mapipa, is that correct?

MR MGXAJI: May His Lordship bear with me, I was attending to something else, and not on the microphone.   What is sought to be ...

CHAIRPERSON: No, there is a submission here that it is common cause that the deceased was a member of the PAC.

MR MGXAJI: Yes, he was a member of the PAC.

CHAIRPERSON: Then I am sorry, I misunderstood your original submission.   Thank you.   Mr Mgidlana, I don't think we need to hear you, we have heard what they want to say, we will take it into consideration.  We don't need to hear you.

MR MGIDLANA: As it pleases you, Judge.

CHAIRPERSON: That brings an end to this week of hearings.  I want to thank, before we stop, the people who made this hearing possible, the Logistics Officers, Publicity Officers, in particular the Interpreters who are taken for granted at most occasions, and yet they do the hardest work of having to inform almost everybody in various languages and we thank them for that.
	We thank those who have provided the food that we have enjoyed, and those representatives who at short notice are briefed to represent the various parties, in particular I want to thank those who participated in the procedure and those members of the public who have taken an interest in what is happening.   
	I also want to appeal to the people who are affected by the acts which we have to ponder upon during this week, that in my view, what has happened in this country, came near to madness and whether we like it or not, some of our people were manipulated by those who wanted to hang on to the apartheid structure and the system.   To that end, we have defeated the apartheid system, but we haven't cleansed ourselves yet, and no matter what, I cannot say to people to forget your loved ones.  What I would like them to consider is to make an attempt to come to terms with life now,  bury the hatched, remember those who died, and let's get on with forming a new country and living in it, together.  I sincerely hope that the families of the victims can see their way clear of coming to terms with having to have some type of social relationship with those that have thus far not cared for, because they had attacked their loved ones, or even hated them.  The time has come for our country to stop hating each other.  I thank you for listening.  We are adjourned.
HEARING ADJOURNS