Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-28

JOHN GEORGE FIVAZ: Thank you.  Chairperson, my statement reads as follows, I am the National Commissioner of the South African Police Service, since 29 January 1995.  On 6 November 1997, I received a notice in terms of Section 29 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, of 1995, to appear before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission at a public hearing from the 24th to the 28th of November 1997 in respect of the following matters.
 Firstly the formation and purpose of the Mandela United Football Club, secondly the murder and investigation into the death of Dr Abu-Baker Asvat in 1989 and thirdly investigations regarding Mrs Winnie Madikizela-Mandela.
 I am aware that other persons, including certain investigating officers in matters involving Mrs Madikizela-Mandela have also been summonsed to appear at the same hearing of the Commission.
 These persons are in the position to give a first hand account of their ensuing investigations.  I have instructed them to cooperate fully with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  I have no direct or personal knowledge regarding the formation and purpose of the Mandela United Football Club.
 In respect of the investigation into the death of Dr Abu-Baker Asvat, and the Lolo Sono and Sibosiso Shabalala cases, I have been approached on various occasions by Mr Tony Leon, MP to investigate certain specific matters.
 I have also been visited in my capacity as National Commissioner, by the parents of Lolo Sono who were of the firm view that the police have not sufficiently followed up on all possible clues to trace their missing son or to prove their suspicion that Mrs Madikizela-Mandela was responsible for this death.
 I view the representations in a very serious light and instructed the command structure of the detective branch to reconsider the cases in lieu and follow up on every alleged loose end and to take all additional allegations into consideration in conjunction with the relevant Attorney General.
 All information received by me was personally channelled to the investigation officers in question and feedback was provided to Mr Tony Leon.  Copies of the relevant correspondence between myself and Deputy National Commissioner, Mike Bester, with Mr Leon, are available.
 In essence the following information is contained in these replies to Mr Leon, namely firstly Ms Emma Nicholson, the British member of Parliament and Mr Katiza Cebekhulu were on various occasions during July 1995, interviewed in London by Superintendent H.T. Moodley.
 Mr Cebekhulu had to such date, given four versions regarding the death of Dr Abu-Baker Asvat, it was evident that Mr Cebekhulu is not a reliable witness and for this reason could not be used as a witness in a criminal trial.
 Superintendent Moodley was of the opinion that Mr Cebekhulu's knowledge of the death of Dr Abu-Baker Asvat is from conversations between himself and Messrs Dlamini and Mbata, the two persons convicted and sentenced for the death of Dr Abu-baker Asvat, whilst they were detained at the police cells in Lenasia and Protea Soweto.
 No new evidence could be found implicating Mrs Madikizela-Mandela in the murder of Dr Abu-Baker Asvat.  The Deputy Attorney General of the Witwatersrand, local division, was of the opinion that there is insufficient evidence for a successful prosecution of Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, as she on the strength of the available evidence, cannot be connected with the crime.  The Attorney General indicated that he decided not to prepare any application for the extradition of Mr Cebekhulu.
 The case docket of Mr Sono was submitted to the Attorney General, who declined to prosecute Mrs Madikizela-Mandela and members of the Mandela United Football Club as the body of Mr Sono had not been found.  The Attorney General indicated that the discovery of the body is necessary to institute criminal proceedings.  A possible site where Mr Sono had allegedly been buried was pointed out to the South African Police Service, the site was thoroughly searched twice aided by excavators and police dogs but to no avail.
 Following the statement attributed to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela in the Citizen of 19 September 1996, namely that certain women had told the TRC that their missing children had last been seen in the company of Mrs Madikizela-Mandela and that the TRC had received evidence from the askari who had killed these children and had not called on him to speak in public, Mr Leon was informed that the TRC by means of Mr Patrick Kelly, the Regional Manager Johannesburg responded on 8 November 1996 as follows and I quote:
"I have consulted our investigative unit on the matter.  Two cases relating to Winnie Mandela were heard at the Commission's Human Rights Violations hearings in Soweto on 22 July 1996, these cases were of the disappearance of Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala.  I can find nothing to support the assertion that the TRC has evidence from an askari relating to either of these cases".
 Results of any further investigations or facts gained were dealt with according to normal procedures including submission to the Attorney General.  In a letter dated 13 October 1995, addressed to the Minister of Safety and Security, Advocate K M Attwell, the then acting Attorney General of the Witwatersrand Division, informed regarding the further investigation concerning Dr Abu-Baker Asvat's murder that there was at that stage, and I quote, 
"Quite simply insufficient evidence for a successful prosecution of Mrs W Mandela.  On the strength of the available evidence she cannot be connected with the crime".
 It has been brought to my attention, Mr Chairman, that according to media reports on 24 October 1997 Mrs Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has alleged before this Commission that the President of South Africa, President Nelson Mandela, had instructed me as National Commissioner of the South African Police Service to, and I quote -
"Dig up dirt".
on Mrs Madikizela-Mandela with a view to their divorce proceedings.  This allegation is simply a bare-faced lie and I am duty bound to flatly reject it.  These allegations are an insult not only to President Mandela but also to the South African Police Service. 
 Sir the South African Police Service is not an instrument of politicians to settle personal scores and I find it offensive in the extreme that anyone could even suggest that President Mandela would go to such lengths on a personal matter.
 Mr Chairman that is my statement, the original copy is in my possession and I can hand it in as an exhibit.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Yes.