Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-17

MR LOWIES: Your answer?

MIRIAM MOLETE: May you please repeat the question, Sir?

MR LOWIES: On at least two or three occasions you stated to Mr Strydom the reason for certain omissions were as a result of your sickness and the omissions, I refer to the omissions in the statements.

CHAIRPERSON: It did not say it directly as you're putting it.  Perhaps what you should do is maybe her ask her whether is that what she was suggesting?

MR LOWIES: That's it Chair, that's actually how it should be read, my question should be read.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR LOWIES: Were you suggesting to Mr Strydom that your illness had an effect on your ability to tell your version of the events on the night of the attack to the police?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, I did not say so.

MR LOWIES: Okay.  Now these people that you've described as the White people, did they wear headbands?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, Sir.

MR LOWIES: Now besides them, did everybody else on what you saw that night, wear headbands or were there other people that you saw without headbands?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I did not see them all, those that I'd seen had red headbands and white headbands.

MR LOWIES: Now do you know the difference - sorry Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't quite catch the answer to the last question.

MR LAX: Those that she saw had red headbands or white headbands.  She didn't see all of them but those that she did see ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, let's put the question again.  Just put the question again?

MR LOWIES: Thank you.
	Now, besides these White people that you described, did everybody else that you saw that night wear headbands?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Those who were at my sister's place they had red and white headbands.

MR LOWIES: All of them except the Whites, as you say?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Those that I have seen, Sir.

MR LOWIES: Yes testified that you requested Mr Kekana to speak SeTswana?

CHAIRPERSON: Just a minute, by "my sister's place" you're referring to Florence's house?

MIRIAM MOLETE: As I peeped through this place they were at Jeanette's place number 19, not 17.

CHAIRPERSON: So the persons that you saw who had either red or white bands, they were at Poleng's place?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, yes.

MR LOWIES: Thank you Chair.
	And the people that you saw at the place where you were attacked except for the three people that you say were Whites, did they wear headbands?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I say so.

MR LOWIES: Now to come to Mr Kekana, why did you request him to speak SeTswana?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It is because I can understand SeTswana, that's my husband's first language.  However, I cannot understand properly Sepedi therefore I said to them if he can not speak SeSotho, better speak SeTswana for me to understand.

MR LOWIES: So Kekana was speaking Sepedi?

MIRIAM MOLETE: He mixed languages.

MR LOWIES: Which languages?

MIRIAM MOLETE: He spoke in SeTswana and his SeSotho was not that fluent and he leaned much to Sepedi language.

MR LOWIES: Sorry, I couldn't catch the last part?

MIRIAM MOLETE: He leaned much more to Sepedi in his speech.

CHAIRPERSON: So Mr Kekana spoke a mix of SeTswana and Sepedi?

MIRIAM MOLETE: His SeSotho was not fluent, you could hear that his language leaned much more to Sepedi.

MR LOWIES: But in your statement it reads at page 10, the 10th page, your first statement, said that it was a statement in Sotho?  Now did you speak Sotho with each other as reflected in the statement?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I spoke in SeSotho.

MR LOWIES: Oh, my mistake, I'm at page ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand what you're saying, just correct me if I'm wrong, you spoke to Kekana in SeSotho, is that right?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: But he could not speak fluent Sotho?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: His was a mixture of SeTswana and Pedi but there was more Pedi to it than Sotho?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay and that is why you then you ask if he could speak SeTswana?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

MR LOWIES: I have to just correct a question that I put to you.  On the 29th page, your first statement, it states that the statement was taken in SeSotho?  First sentence, states in SeSotho under oath, page 29 of the bundle.  So it appears to me that both of you spoke in SeSotho?

MR LAX: No, she speaks SeSotho, that's what it states.

MR LOWIES: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: The witness has just explained how this occurred.  They were supposed to Sotho as I understand it.  Mr Kekana was not fluent in SeSotho, he spoke a mixture of Tswana and Pedi but there was more Pedi than there was Tswana which is why she then requested him to speak in Tswana.

MR LOWIES: Thank you Chair.
	But you were telling him what happened on the night, not he telling you?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct, Sir.

MR LOWIES: So he was actually just asking you questions to get your version of what happened, is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: May you please repeat the question please?

MR LOWIES: So he actually just asked you questions as to what happened and then you related to him what was the situation and what transpired that night?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

MR LOWIES: And do I then understand correctly, you couldn't understand his questions to you?

CHAIRPERSON: When did she say she didn't understand the questions?

MR LOWIES: She did not say that.

CHAIRPERSON: She did not say?  Then what are putting.

MR LOWIES: She said - sorry Chairman, the way I had it is the following, she said that he was only asking her questions to relate to him what happened, therefore the conclusion, this is the question, that she did not understand his questions.  I'm asking her that, because her version is she only asked the questions as to what happened.

CHAIRPERSON: I can't understand, I mean how do you come to that conclusion in light of her direct evidence to the effect that this man spoke in Tswana and Sepedi and a little bit of Sotho?

MR LOWIES: I'll leave it at that.

CHAIRPERSON: Well unless there is something to that that I can't see?

MR LOWIES: I'll retract the question, Chair.
	Now according to this statement, the first statement, you acknowledged that you knew and understand the contents of this whole statement?

CHAIRPERSON: Which statement is this?

MR LOWIES: Page 29, the first statement.

CHAIRPERSON: The first statement, yes.

MR LOWIES: Do you deny that this happened?

CHAIRPERSON: You've just read to her what appears on the statement and what you've read is a certificate wherein she says she understands the contents of the statement and acknowledges, now the question?

MR LOWIES: The question is, in the light of this statement by Kekana, where it appears from the document that you have acknowledged that you know and understand the contents of this declaration, did something like this happen, in other words did Kekana ask you do you know and understand the contents of this declaration?

MIRIAM MOLETE: After I have gained the statement he never read it to me.

MR LOWIES: And he didn't ask you either?  Do you understand the statement, do you acknowledge that you know what is in the statement, words to that effect?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I cannot remember, Sir.

MR LOWIES: Did he ask you to take the oath?

MIRIAM MOLETE: What do you mean, Sir?

MR LOWIES: Whether you have any objection to the taking of the oath and whether you consider it as binding on your conscience and to say so help me God?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That was never stated to us.

MR LOWIES: Now Chairman, my attention is drawn to the time, I don't know whether it's an appropriate time ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: How far are you from finishing this witness?

MR LOWIES: It's difficult to say, I'd say 10, 15 minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: If we could, maybe we should break at this stage, Mr Lowies?