Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I think that at that stage Prof Schabot was a little bit shocked still because he had been placed under house arrest for so long, he had been under a lot of pressure by the security police, and he felt a little bit wary and felt that it wasn't the time yet to re-establish the BBB.  But I had contacts with other members of the BBB, for instance, Leunis van Rooyen, who was one of the founder members of the BBB. I approached him and asked his opinion.  He felt that it would be a good idea to re-establish the organisation.   I asked him whether he would join our organisation, but he couldn't do so as a result of other commitments.

UNKNOWN: Excuse me, just for chronological clarity. When did this take place, what was the year?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: That was during 1991.

UNKNOWN: And the month?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I went to see Prof Schabot on more than one occasion, but I think it was between April and July.

UNKNOWN: And apart from Leunis van Rooyen and Prof Schabot, did you have contact with other right-wing leading figures?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, I had contact with Mr Robert van Tonder of the Boerestaat Party. The idea was that by means of our underground organisation, we would use various well-known organisations to continue the struggle, and we wanted to unify the various right-wing organisations, but these known right-wing organisations had to continue operating as front organisations and I tried to approach people who were active in these organisations and who I might trust, so that I would have a finger and a contact in each of these organisations.	 For instance, I had contact with Mr Dries Alberts in December 1990.

UNKNOWN: With what purpose in mind?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, at that time we wanted to establish the South African Partisans as the underground organisation and then we wanted to have a public organisation as well.

UNKNOWN: Now when you refer to "we", who exactly are you referring to?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, at that stage it was White and myself. Although I knew of various people who supported us, but I hadn't yet confronted them with the idea of an underground organisation.  Mr Anton Terblanche was also approached by myself.

UNKNOWN: Now who was he?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: He was a member of the Church of the Creator and also a member of the Boerestaat Party.  He was one of Mr Robert van Tonder's confidantes and he was very active in leading the Boerestaat Party.

UNKNOWN: And Mr Dries Alberts, is that Andries Hendrik Alberts?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And what was his role, why did you regard him as important?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Mr Dries Alberts was part of the AWB's leadership structure earlier on, and he still retained many contacts with the AWB and various other right-wing leaders. I felt that as a result of all his experience in the AWB and his political knowledge, and also because I had learnt from other people, that he was a very trustworthy right-winger, I felt that I could approach him for support and for guidance and advice.  I also felt that he could perhaps act as a public figure for us and to lead the South African Republican Organisation, SARO.

UNKNOWN: Now where were the finances to come for for these ...
END TAPE 1 - DAY 4 - SIDE A
TAPE 1 - DAY 4 - SIDE B

JEAN DU PLESSIS: ... but that was just to get us started.  Later on we contemplated obtaining money by means of robberies, from armoured cars, banks and also have an idea to establish a diamond smuggling operation in the same way as for instance, Unita, financed itself by means of diamond smuggling, and we felt we could do the same.

UNKNOWN: Did you hope that some of these right-wing leaders such as Mr Alberts and Mr Van Tonder, that they would assist financially?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, Mr Dries Alberts was a successful businessman, Mr Anton Terblanche, Mr Leunus van Rooyen, they were all very successful business people and would have assisted us financially, to some extent, in any event.

UNKNOWN: What was your justification of robbing armoured cars and banks?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I believed that the financial powers were robbing our country, by establishing very strongly capitalistic systems, which plunged people into debt and that people were selling their souls to the banks.  For that reason I felt that to rob the banks, to rob their money, was justifiable because it was for the struggle and for the liberation of White people in this country and also world-wide.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, you have associated yourself it seems to me, with a number of different organisations, AWB, BBB, et cetera. What was your attitude regarding the fragmentation of these organisations?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I felt that we should establish a core group with a very good communication and information system, which would infiltrate the various organisations and do recruiting. We also supported the general objectives of some of these organisations.

UNKNOWN: What was your ideal, what kind of organisation?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I believed that we should diversify this grouping, because the security police's information network was excellent and the more diversely we operated, the more difficult it would be for the security police national intelligence to infiltrate us and to keep tabs on us.

UNKNOWN: What was your attitude towards National Intelligence, Military Intelligence and the security police at that stage?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I believed that they were the enemy. I believed that they were controlled, for instance National Intelligence, they were controlled by the financial powers themselves. I had information which proved to me that National Intelligence was established by John Vorster's government and that Dr Verwoerd was strongly opposed to this. The National Intelligence was based on the model of the CIA and was also established by means of advice from the CIA.  Verwoerd prohibited John Vorster from continuing with the information organisation, after which John Vorster went underground with national intelligence until after the assassination of Dr Verwoerd.

UNKNOWN: Now at that stage you were barely 20 years old. Is that correct?  You were 20, perhaps 21 years old?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, I was 20.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, what made these leadership figures in the right-wing organisations, what caused them to believe you and to have discussions with you, as such a young man?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I was extremely motivated, to fight for our aims. I had a very clear vision at the time, a very clear vision of where we were going to and what we were fighting for. I think that I can debate very well and I am well able to convince people of my point of view.

UNKNOWN: Do you consider yourself to be a leader?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, I think I am quite a strong leader.

UNKNOWN: What effect do you have on people around you normally that take up a subservient role, or what is your experience?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, for instance, I can say that, I can refer to something which happened recently during the time I was in prison, when I was transferred to maximum security.  A friend and I established a church, a Christian church and I took a leading role in this church. I started delivering sermons and preaching, and it was called the United Christian Mission.  We felt that Jesus Christ was the only hope and salvation of this country.

UNKNOWN: Right. I just want you now to go back to the history of the establishment of the nationalist social partisans.