Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

CHAIRPERSON: Well you certainly with the Germiston bomb and the pipe bombs reported back to the leader and that is after the meeting with the three other generals or it had to be after the meeting with the other generals?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you never discuss with the leader when you reported back about Germiston that you understand that there also must be an international incident?

MR PRINSLOO: I cannot remember that, no -if he mentioned it to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you discuss this with him because you were not present at a meeting where it according to you had to be discussed?

MR PRINSLOO: That afternoon after the people left to the shooting range I left the shooting range and went back to Ventersdorp. If I mentioned it there to him I do not know. I definitely saw him and members of the Generals in staff. There was members of the Generals in staff who visited the shooting range when I left. I cannot remember who it was.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo let us keep to the international incident. You were now informed, according to your evidence, that you must execute or begin an international incident. You receive an opportunity after you were informed about this to go and talk to the leader. An international incident during the elections in South Africa at that stage would have been a big thing. Is that not true?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: And part of the planning was that the leader would then announce who would be responsible for it.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How can you not remember if you discussed this with him or not?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I would have had to have discussed it with him.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you remember or not? It is an exception. It is important. It is not something out of the ordinary.

MR PRINSLOO: Well at that stage all explosions were important to us. I can't remember that I would specifically only have mentioned that to him. It is logical that I would have mentioned it to him but I can't say with certainty whether or not I did so at that stage.

MR BRACHER: Mr Prinsloo there is another mystery that I want you to clear up. You told us that the Bree Street, Johannesburg bomb was a sneller, it was one of the important bombs in the whole campaign, it was the start of everything. You also told us that you had set up all your structures and your supply lines. Why did you not supply to Koesterfontein from the AWB the things that they needed to make the bomb? We have heard that they had to scratch around in the grass the get an old grass roller and bits of metal and this and that, borrow a trailer without telling the owner in advance they were borrowing it. That doesn't show any kind of organisation at all. Now why is that?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I can assure you that everything was very well organised and planned within the organisation. The fact that they scratched around looking for explosives [intervention]

MR BRACHER: Bits of metal to put on top of it to make it worse.

MS VAN DER WALT: Could I just intervene at this point. I don't wish to make an objection. I know that during other amnesty applications this sort of thing was never allowed. I don't wish to object but the idea which is being created here by Mr Bracher is that there was an unorganised manufacturing of bombs taking place and that in essence people scratched around for the parts for bombs.
	With all respect it was a bomb that was being manufactured. They were looking for scraps of metal in order to have shrapnel. They had the equipment. We heard evidence from Mr Venter who went to fetch the explosives in Welkom and it was a very powerful bomb that went off as a result of the shrapnel. It is not that it was an unorganised scratching around on the farm. It was just that they went to go and look for the metal to put onto the bomb. It is such an unnecessary patronage of this person's evidence.

MR BRACHER: Mr Prinsloo what did you supply for the bomb? You told us at the beginning of your evidence in chief that you were in charge of supplies I think.

MR PRINSLOO: I beg your pardon? I was in command of supplies?

MR BRACHER: Supplies.

MR PRINSLOO: Well that is the logistics. Supplies don't have anything to do with the explosives.

MR BRACHER: Who organised that?

MR PRINSLOO: That would have been the various commanders or the special officers who were involved with that.

MR BRACHER: Who would be the person supplying equipment or explosives for that bomb to Koesterfontein?

MR PRINSLOO: Which bomb would that be?

MR BRACHER: Any one of the Koesterfontein bombs.

MR PRINSLOO: From all over as I understood it explosives were collected. Who specifically did this is unknown to me.

MR BRACHER: Was none of this organised from headquarters?

MR PRINSLOO: Well there were explosives which were stored in head-office. Whether that specific store of explosives were used in Koesterfontein or on the game farm is not possible for me to say with certainty. It is possible.

MR BRACHER: Can I put it differently. Is the short answer that you simply don't know who supplied anything to Koesterfontein? You personally don't know.

MR PRINSLOO: Personally I don't know but what I can tell you is that I know that explosives were taken from head-office as well as parachutes and these were transported to Koesterfontein, explosives. However, whether it was that specific charge of explosives from head-office is unknown to me. I don't know if it was that explosives which was used in the Pretoria bomb or the Germiston bomb or the Bree Street bomb.

MR BRACHER: The other mystery is this. You are the General staff commander of that area in which the bombs are being made, why did you never go to Koesterfontein?

MR PRINSLOO: Because I did not regard that as my duty.

MR BRACHER: But it was your duty. You were the commander of that region where the great sneller of your whole campaign was going to begin.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes there were other members under my command who were in charge of such tasks.

MR BRACHER: Who were they?

MR PRINSLOO: There were various persons; Mr Johan Smit.

MR BRACHER: I am talking about General staff members.

MR PRINSLOO: No, Generals in staff wouldn't have reached that. Except for Leon van der Merwe who was also a member of Generals in staff. He might have been there. But I never specifically inspected Koesterfontein the farm.

MR BRACHER: Why do you say it isn't your duty? Why do you say that?

MR PRINSLOO: Because I delegated some of my tasks and duties to members under my command.

MR BRACHER: Okay now who did you delegate that function to, to go and check up on the happenings in Koesterfontein?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I can't remember that I delegated that task to anyone specific but Mr Cliff Barnard at a certain point reported to me. I think it was approximately two or three occasions. He reported to me regarding what they were busy with.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it not your task to go and inspect what was going on there? Is that how you saw it?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I believe if there had been time.

CHAIRPERSON: No, this is the big bomb. This is the beginning of the great war. It was manufactured in your jurisdiction and you say that it wasn't your duty because it wouldn't have been your duty because you would have delegated it to someone.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it your duty before you delegated it?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I should be believe that it was my duty and the fact that Mr Barnard was entrusted with that order was enough reason for me to believe that he was the right person for the job. Specifically with regard to the Johannesburg bomb then.

MR BRACHER: What was Mr Barnard's rank?