Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-26

ADV POTGIETER: Once again good morning ladies and gentleman and a very warm word of welcome to all of you but a particular word of welcome to those people who will be testifying today.  This is the last round of hearings for 1996 of the Western and Northern Cape Region of the Commission and we will by having a three day session which will today deal with the incident which has become known as the Pollsmoor March and the incidents that went with that.
 We will then tomorrow and Thursday have an event hearing looking at the incident which has become known as the Guguletu 7 incident.   Just one or two issues to be placed on record.  
 Firstly at hearings like these we do not make any findings.  We receive testimony and submissions from people in connection with the matters that are begin attended to.  It is received by the panel who presides but no finding is made on any of the issues which arise in the course of the testimony.
 Findings are only made eventually once the matter has been fully investigated,  once the Commission is satisfied that all of the relevant material has been collected and only once all of that has been considered together with the testimony that has been given, that a finding is eventually made.  
 And then secondly  just to put on record that although the sittings of the Commission are not similar to the sittings of a Court of Law,  it is necessary in order to get the work done that a certain level of day quorum is maintained at the proceedings.  And I would simply place that on record.
 Then also it is necessary to put on record that it is an offense in terms of the Truth Commission Act for anyone to willfully mislead the Commission so that a person who does that is liable to legal action. 
 Then I would like to just introduce my colleagues who are sitting with me today. On my left is Dr Wendy Orr, she is a Commissioner and she is the Vice Chairperson of one of our committees which is called the Reparations and Rehabilitation's Committee.  And one my right is another Commissioner and a member of the same committee Ms Glenda Wildschut and all three of us are based in the Western Cape Region and we work from the Cape Town office here.
 Before we proceed to here the testimony I am going to ask Glenda to explain the use of the headsets - the translation devices.  Thank you.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: You will notice on your chair that there is a pair of headsets. We use these when translations occur so you will hear in your head that the translation in the language that you understand when the language is spoken which is not your own.  It is connected to this little device.  The channels go in alphabetical order.  Channel one is in Afrikaans, channel two in English and channel three will be Xhosa.  Channel one Afrikaans, channel two English and the third channel is in Xhosa.
 You will notice these black boxes in the corner those are the transmitters, so if you are having difficulty hearing just try and turn your device in the direction of those little transmitters there.
 Please when you leave the room will you leave the headset on your chair and the device.  We need to recharge them we also need to ensure that they are used for people don't have devices.   So please when you leave the room can you please leave the headsets and the device on your chair.  Thank you very much.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Glenda.  We will proceed to listen to  the testimony.  The first witness as it been indicated earlier is Sheikh Gabier who will be giving a context statement relating to the Pollsmoor March incident and I call Sheikh Gabier to come to the podium please.
 Good morning Sheikh Gabier.  Just before you settle down.

SHEIKH GABIER: Can I stand up again.

ADV POTGIETER: O! sure, do that to.

SHEIKH GABIER: No problem.

ADV POTGIETER: I am going to ask you to just make a solemn  affirmation.  It is necessary because what you will be telling us go on in the record of Commission's testimony in evidence. So I am just going to ask you first to state you full names for record.

SHEIKH GABIER: My full name is Abdul Hani Gabier.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.

SHEIKH GABIER: I am called Sheikh because I am an religious minister.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Sheikh.
SHEIKH GABIER Affirms for the truth

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much, you may be seated.  Sheikh as we know we are listening today to a number of cases which have arisen during perhaps some just immediately prior to and some subsequent  to the march that was arranged in August of 1985.  And in order to place that in a context which we can understand and appreciate the testimonies  given we have asked you to come and to put that context before us so that we are then able to follow the testimony that will be given of specify incidence better.
 So I am going to ask you to do that and to take us through your submission in this regard, thank you.

SHEIKH GABIER: Thank you very much Mr Chairman.  First and foremost before I do start I would like to thank the Truth and Reconciliation Commission for giving me the opportunity to come here and testify and I have a very bad memory.  I am getting old now, so I hope that whatever I am saying here would be of benefit and for us and for those who come in the future, our children ... witness is crying

ADV POTGIETER: Take your time Sheikh, it is no problem.