Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I did not leave the meeting, but I was not interested.

MR MADASA: Why did you loose interest in the matter?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: The reason why I lost interest, is because a new SDU was going to be formed, meanwhile there was one in existence.  Also I was not happy about the fact that we had to pop out R50-00 each house.

MR MADASA: Did you want the new SDU to be formed?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I was not interested in the new SDU.

MR MADASA: Were you not interested to know why it was necessary to form a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: The reason why I was not interested in the reasoning, is because I stayed with someone who was a member of the ANC Youth League.  The reason why I was unhappy was because I found out that they wanted to also use girls in this new SDU that they were forming.

CHAIRPERSON: At what stage of meeting did you hear that the purpose of the meeting was to form a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Could you repeat the question please.

CHAIRPERSON: At what stage did you hear that the purpose of the meeting was to form the new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: After they had already said, however I had already heard that the ANC Youth League wanted to form a new SDU because they were saying that their parents were being attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: So before you went to the meeting, you knew that the meeting was going to be about the forming of a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: As I have already said, I stayed with someone who was a member of the ANC Youth League.  She would complain to me of some things, she would tell me that she is a member of the ANC Youth League but she did not know what was going on.
	She was not clear of what was going on.  However, I later found out that they used to hide information from her because the ANC Youth League said I am quite close to the SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: Prior to going to the meeting, did you know that the meeting was going to discuss the formation of a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I was not clear.

CHAIRPERSON: You only learnt that for the first time at the meeting?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I could put it like that.

CHAIRPERSON: You nevertheless continued to remain at the meeting?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I did not stay until the end of the meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: You were present when Bulelwa asked why it was necessary to form a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I was present.

CHAIRPERSON: After she had asked the question, you then suddenly lost interest in the meeting?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I lost interest, I was disinterested from the time they even mentioned that they were forming a new SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't bother to find out why it was necessary to form a new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I did not ask.

MR MADASA: You yourself was not in favour of the formation of the new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I did not agree with that because I knew that there was a SDU already in existence.

MR MADASA: You were not in favour of the formation of the new SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I was not in favour.

MR MADASA: Was the community supportive of the new formation of the SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: No, they did not support that idea.  However ...

CHAIRPERSON: Did you hear anyone at the meeting speaking in favour of the formation of the SDU?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Nobody.

CHAIRPERSON: This different view that you are talking about, what are they?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: In a meeting everybody views, or everybody says what they think, gives their viewpoint.

CHAIRPERSON: Then how do you know that the people were not in favour of the establishment of the new SDU?

MR MADASA: Sorry Mr Chairman, the witness with due respect has told the Committee that at that meeting there was division as to the formation of the new SDU, that is what she said.

CHAIRPERSON: But she said no one spoke against that, no one spoke in favour of the SDU?

MR MADASA: She said there was division amongst the people who attended.

CHAIRPERSON: I want to know what division, what were the people saying?

MR MADASA: What were the people saying?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Some of the people were against the SDU, as Bulelwa said or asked if it was necessary to form a new SDU, she asked if this was not going to cause conflict.

MR MADASA: I have no further questions Your Worship.

MR MADASA: .

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.  Ms Ndwane, is it correct that Bulelwa and Buthelezi were staying in Block F?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: And both of them were leaders in the community structures in Block F?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Correct.

MR MAPOMA: Now in that meeting that you are talking about, was there at any stage where some people were not allowed to talk because they are women?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I am not sure about that.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Ndwane, where is this Nomfundu Ndwane today?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: She is around, but not here.

MR SIBANYONI: Not here at the hearings?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: No, she is not here in the hall.

MR SIBANYONI: Where exactly is she?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: She is in the township.

MR SIBANYONI: And then since when was she a member of the ANC Youth League, when did she become a member of the ANC Youth League?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: She became a member of the ANC Youth League after being recruited by other girls who were staying at Block F, who were already members of the ANC Youth League.

MR SIBANYONI: And when was that?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: In 1993, before December.  I can't remember, at the time of this incident, it hadn't been a long time since she had joined.

MR SIBANYONI: Could it be July or August or September, can you estimate a month?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I think it was around July, but I am not sure.

MR SIBANYONI: We have heard from applicants that there were generally complaints about the Youth League, the ANC Youth League, among others that the Youth League was hijacking cars, looting tuckshops - were you also aware of that since you were staying with a member of the ANC Youth League?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: As I have already said, Nomfundu was not clear of certain issues.  She did not tell me of such.

MR SIBANYONI: So you are saying you were not aware that generally in the community you were staying in, people were being killed, cars hijacked and spaza shops looted.  Let me separate my question were you aware of those rumours or were you not aware?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Yes, I have heard such rumours.

MR SIBANYONI: You heard them from the community, is that correct?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Did you also hear that the people who were suspected of those deeds, were members of the ANC Youth League?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: I am not sure exactly who was guilty.  We would hear that bakeries are being looted, tuckshops, people had been killed, but nobody ever said that all that was being done by the ANC Youth League.

MR SIBANYONI: Did you hear about the death of Majosi who was the member of the South African Communist Party?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Did you hear that the Youth League apologised for his death?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: No.  I did not hear that.

MR SIBANYONI: Did your sister Nomfundu never discuss the issue with you?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: As I have already said, Nomfundu would go to the meetings.  She was elected as a Secretary, but she never even had a book for the minutes of the meeting.

MR SIBANYONI: But exactly as a Secretary, she was supposed to be in a better position to know more about the activities of the ANC Youth League than an ordinary member, she was in the Executive.  What is your comment about that?

NOMBUNISO NDWANE: Yes, I agree but she did not like what she was doing.  But as a mother or sort of a mother for her, I said to her she should be a member of the ANC Youth League, because other children were as well.
	I did not particularly see a reason why she shouldn't join the ANC Youth League, so I encouraged her.