Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

WITNESS:   No, they are finished.

CHAIRPERSON: You also said you have two brothers.  How old is your brother?

WITNESS:   They are all old.  I am the last-born.  They aren't working all of them.  No, I don't know their ages all of them.

CHAIRPERSON: You said you were the fourth-born, the last one.

WITNESS:   My brother, and then my other brother, and then my sister, and I am the last one.  They are all not working.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words you are four?

WITNESS:   Yes, two boys and two girls.  I am the last-born.  I am working at Dundee Provincial Hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your duty?

WITNESS:   I am a nurse.

CHAIRPERSON: Is your mother getting pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is, she is a pensioner.

CHAIRPERSON: Besides the pension is there any other grants or something else she is receiving?

WITNESS:   No.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words your mother is receiving pension and you're also working, you are helping them?

WITNESS:   No, I am not married, but I do own my own house.  My son is 16 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he still at school?

WITNESS:   Yes, he is in standard seven.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, we would like you to relate your story to us, what happened to you in June 1986.

WITNESS:   In 1986 June I was working, and I was from college.  I was working at the police.  I was a wardress.  I was working with Mr Sipho Zulu, who is also staying at Sibongile location, at 766 Sibongile location in Dundee. You were working with him?   ---   Yes.  As we were working with Sipho my duties were just to guard the female prisoners, and he was supposed to cook for female prisoners and male prisoners.  Basically these were people who were still on trial, not prisoners.  I asked them that I needed to go for training, and they kept on promising me that they will send me to college.  And then I left that job, I went home and I stayed home.  I applied for a job in nursing, and I waited for the nursing college to reply me.  I didn't go to the police station to receive my salary, and while I was staying at home Mr Mathonzi - they used to call him Drops - he came together with many white policemen.  They told me that I should appear in court.  At that time we were fighting, or we were boycotting rents.  As we were boycotting for not to pay rent we said we didn't want to pay rent, and Mr Drops Mathonzi came, together with white policemen.  And when I asked them why I was supposed to appear in court they said to me I must come to fetch my pay, or my salary rather.  Initially they didn't find me at home, they found my mother, and they told my mother that I should come to the police station to fetch my salary.  And the next day my mother told me, and she said I am supposed to go and fetch my salary.  So I was happy.  I took my mother with, we went to the police station, and when we arrived there everything changed and they told me that I was a suspect that I burnt Mr Sipho Zulu's house.  And I asked them when, and the police took me to Mr Joubert, who was a police at Dundee Police Station.  Mr Joubert called Flying Squad CIDs from Newcastle, and they arrived, they took me.  My mother asked them, she wanted to come with me.  They refused.  They took me to Newcastle Police Station.  When we arrived at the police station police interrogated me, and they told me I was going to tell the truth.  Mr Gama was one of the policemen.  And when I asked them what was it in connection with they told me I burnt someone's house.  I asked them I didn't have any idea about these things.  They took me to Newcastle Prison.  I arrived there and I stayed there for a long time.  They took me again and they interrogated me, and they discovered that I didn't know a thing about whatever they were asking me about, burning someone's house.  Later on we were taken from Newcastle to Utrecht, Utrecht Prison.  There we never rested because those white policemen kept on interrogating us, and in winter they would take us outside and make us stand for sunbathing for 30 minutes.  We were taken again from Utrecht back to Newcastle.  After days we were taken back to Newcastle Police Station.  I asked them that they should call Mr Gama.  I asked Mr Gama why I was in custody, and then he said to me I am a suspect that I burnt someone's house, and then I asked him, "Am I a suspect or someone witnessed me burning someone's house?"  And I told them to call Mr Zulu.  And then they said, "Did you have a fight with Mr Zulu?"  I told them no, I never had a fight.  The only thing that happened between me and Mr Zulu is that I refused to cook because he was supposed to cook.  They released me from Newcastle Police Station.  I went back home.  I was released in March.  I am not certain about the date, but it was in 1989.  I was arrested in June 1986.  I was arrested in June 1986.  I am sorry, I made a mistake.  I was released in 1987 March.  In 1987 November, when I was home, I heard that people who burnt the house were arrested.  People who burnt Mr Zulu's house were arrested, and those people were Thokozani Mthembu, Comrade Tororo Kayenda.  It was Comrade Thokozani Mthembu, Tororo Kayenda, and Comrade Mbuyiseni Duze.  It was in November 1987.  I am not certain about the date.  Those were the people who were accused of burning Mr Zulu's house after I was arrested and stayed in custody for nothing.  One other thing.  I left my son for nothing, and he was still young.  Up until today there's no attachment between me and my son.  Even though I try to do things for him he doesn't accept me.  And I would like to know if is this the truth that someone can be arrested and put in custody for nothing?

CHAIRPERSON: How old is your son?

WITNESS:   He is 16 years.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you related that you were tortured.  Can you please explain to us what exactly they did to you besides making you stand outside in the sun?

WITNESS:   In Newcastle it was in winter.  They made us lie down on the floor in winter, and they used a mat.  Utrecht I slept for three months on the floor.

CHAIRPERSON: Besides that is there other things that you've seen as torture?

WITNESS:   Yes, a lot of things.

CHAIRPERSON: What else?

WITNESS:   Police who were trained as police - you can't take anyone to be a police, you have to train someone to be a police.  These people interrogated me, and they've realised that I was telling the truth, but after that they kept on harassing me.  Like Mr Joubert from Dundee Police Station, he sent me to Newcastle Police Station knowing very well that I didn't know a thing.

CHAIRPERSON: This Mr Gama, was he also a police?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was a CID or Flying Squad from Newcastle.  Gama used to ask me nicely.  His questions were okay.  I don't want to lie about that.

CHAIRPERSON: You also said in your statement that your son and yourself you lack an attachment because you were separated while he was still young.

WITNESS:   My young is not calling me Mum, but he is calling my mother Mum.  Whenever he needs something he goes to my mother and asks my mother to come and ask from me.  And even when I tell my son that, "I am your mother, you're supposed to ask to me," he is telling me that he depends on my mum rather than on me.  I took a subsidy house so that I tried to console my son, for him to feel at home.  He was five years when I was arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: And you're telling us up until today from that time there's no attachment?

WITNESS:   No.  We are like siblings, not like a mother and a son.

CHAIRPERSON: How is he behaving?

WITNESS:   Before he was naughty, and ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: How naughty?

WITNESS:   He wouldn't listen to me.  Even if I tell him that he must come back home at about seven he wouldn't listen to me, he'll come at eight maybe.

CHAIRPERSON: How is he at school?

WITNESS:   He is okay.  He is intelligent.