Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

DR BORAINE: Chairperson, the following witness is Mr Godfrey Sengathedi Makola and I will ask him to please come forward.  Mr Makola, if you would just please put on the headphones.  Thank you very much.  Mr Makola, a warm welcome to you from the Commission.  I understand that you are a teacher at Soshanguve.  Is that right?  Okay and you have come to tell us about the death of your brother because it seems as there were many people killed in the march in Mamelodi on the 21st of November 1985.  This is yet another sad, sad story.  You can hear alright?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Alright.

DR BORAINE: Okay, good.  Mr Makola, you have somebody with you.  You having a problem about hearing?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Alright.

DR BORAINE: You okay now?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Okay.

DR BORAINE: Could you tell us who is with you today?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, it is my younger sister.

DR BORAINE: We are very pleased to see you.  Thank you and welcome to you as well.  Thank you for coming with your brother.  Mr Makola, Mr Wynand Malan is going to lead you in a moment, but as you know you have to take the oath before you tell your story.  So would you please stand.  Could you stand please.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
2 G S MAKOLA

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: (Duly sworn in, states).

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Please be seated.  Mr Malan.

MR MALAN: Mr Makola.

INTERPRETER: Sorry, the Interpreters would just like to point out that he might be on the wrong channel.  We suggest he switch to three.

MR MALAN: Could you check whether the channel there is on channel three?

INTERPRETER: I will just help.

DR BORAINE: Are you hearing now?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Yes.

DR BORAINE: That is much better.  You must have been lip reading before which is very good.

MR MALAN: Mr Makola, you heard the preceding two witnesses giving evidence relating to the same incident that you will be telling us about.  Please tell us your story.  You have given us a statement, but if you will publicly also tell us, in your words, what happened that day.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: On the 21st of the 11th month 1985 in Mamelodi there was a march organised to discuss the rent issue.  My younger brother Thabo Melvern Makola attended that meeting.  Unfortunately we were in Soshanguve at that time.  As a Comrade he joined those people and he represented my aunt at that march.  After some few days we learnt that the child did not return back from that march.  We heard that people died at that march.  I was not in, around Transvaal, I was outside Soshanguve and Mamelodi.  I learned that this child died.  That is when we started looking for him with my father, but unfortunately we searched the boy for about 15, 19.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
3 G S MAKOLA

MR MALAN: I think it may be easier for you while you are giving your testimony to take the headphones off.  So when you finish and I speak English again, then you can listen to the translation.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Alright, no problem otherwise.  So on the 1st of 1985, during November time the Civic of Mamelodi went for rent march.  So I think it was organised by the Civic and after that when they went there.  So my younger brother was visiting there the aunt.  Unfortunately, he joined the Comrades as usual.  Then after a few days we heard from the aunt that the boy did not return.  So we had a problem.  After that we went looking for him from police station to another police station.  Even at the Government Mortuary.  Unfortunately, we did not get him at the Government Mortuary.  So the search was for about 19 days.  So we went to the police station again, we went to the mortuary again.
 After 19 days we heard from rumours that they were buried somewhere.  So someone told us that, I am not quite sure about that one, but they said that, as rumours say, they were buried somewhere in Mamelodi at the base of the mountain.  So after 14 days, I mean 19 days, so we went back to the same mortuary, we went there, but fortunately enough, that time we got him.  So we questioned them what happened, why we came here for the first time, but they could not explain.  So as a Phillistus said and Mr Msiza said, we went to Pretoria North Court.  Unfortunately, everything was not gloomy during that time.  Otherwise even the lawyers of LR, LHR were a little bit jumpy when we asked them.  One of them said some funny stories about everything.  So I became disillusioned and went away and never went back to the same
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
4 G S MAKOLA
court.  Even today we are still waiting for these people to tell us what happened.  
 Now what is important today, I think, I am interested with the person who gave orders that day to mow people down and the other question I am asking is that why for 19 days we have been looking to and for, but we did not get the corpse of this young boy.

MR MALAN: Sorry, you may continue.  The indication was just not to beat on the table because the noise comes through.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Okay.

MR MALAN: You are welcome to continue.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Right.

MR MALAN: You asked a question.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Yes, my question is that I just want to find out about if it is a General, he must give us, they must give us the name of the person who was in charge of the army or whatever police that day.  Then the question which must be answered, again, is that for 19 days looking for a corpse.  What was happening to this young man because some of his clothes were, I mean, were stinking teargas.  We thought, perhaps, he was shot, taken into a Hippo and after that, that is what we think, then tortured and after that being gunned again.  So, another thing which worries us too much because the bullet was in a sort of a "Z".  Meaning that he was shot in a "Z" fashion.

MR MALAN: Thank you Mr Makola.  If you would not mind, I have a question or two just to follow up.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: You are welcome.

MR MALAN: You heard the previous witness giving his testimony, Mr Msiza.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Mr Msiza.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
5 G S MAKOLA

MR MALAN: You heard him when he spoke.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Right.

MR MALAN: Just before you.  He referred to an open inquest that was held.  Did you attend that?  Was there any inquest that you attended relating to your.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Yes, I remember going to Pretoria North Court.

MR MALAN: So that was the same inquest into the mass ...

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: I think so.

MR MALAN: ... killings and was there, was there ever a post mortem done on your brother that you have any results on?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: No results were given to us because I went for one day and I was disillusioned because things were not running in a legal way.  Let me say we were not welcome.

MR MALAN: You have not had any feedback from anyone since the death of your brother?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: No.

MR MALAN: As you have heard we have some other evidence.  We will follow through on this.  We will probably get more information and we hope that we, in due time, can come back to you and give you some more information than we presently have.  I hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Any, Russell Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Godfrey, you say that you have a suspicion that your brother may have been tortured, that he may not have been killed on the day of the march.  Now why would you have that suspicion?  Was he an organiser in, of the march itself?  Was he quite active politically?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: He was not, he was just a youth who was taking part in a march.  So what I suspect when I say that perhaps he was reshot, perhaps after being arrested or injured, it is what I think.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
6 G S MAKOLA