Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

LEON A MAREE: Oh, no, no, sorry, how long it took me to actually trace?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

LEON A MAREE: No, no, it took long since I was given the instruction, it took much longer than that, sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of period are you talking about, months or weeks?

LEON A MAREE: Months.

CHAIRPERSON: Months.  Yes, thank you.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Did they bother you at all and say:  "Where's this guy's address?  What are you doing about it?"

LEON A MAREE: No they didn't.

MR KAHANOVITZ: They didn't bother?  Alright.  Now I just want to put - Mr van Zyl, I put to him your version to the effect that you were never involved in the framing of any plans to eliminate Gavin Evans.  That is your version?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Mr van Zyl gave evidence to the effect that your version is untrue.  Mr van Zyl's understanding is that you were indeed involved in the framing of plans to eliminate Evans and that Evans was your project.

LEON A MAREE: This is not so.

MR KAHANOVITZ: If that's Mr van Zyl's version, is he not telling the truth?

LEON A MAREE: He's not correct, no.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I see.   I want to give you yet another version, that of Joe Verster's.  This appears, you don't need to go there but just for the purpose of the record, at page 190 of Bundle A, paragraph 1.1 he says the following
"During 1989, members of the CCB were given an instruction to monitor one Gavin Evans in Johannesburg.  The persons who were involved in this were Staal Burger, Slang van Zyl, Calla Botha and Wouter Basson."
Now you'll note your name's not mentioned.

LEON A MAREE: That's my evidence, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So for a start Verster doesn't mention you, we've also received no evidence to the effect that Calla Botha was given instructions to monitor Gavin Evans.  Are you aware of any evidence which supports that?

LEON A MAREE: No, I'm not.

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, you're not.  Your alias, was that Stefan le Roux?

LEON A MAREE: That's right.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I just want to refer you to the diary entry in Mr Basson's diary of the 9th of May 1989, where it refers to the priority targets of various people.  Next to your name it says Evans and the figure 2 appears, the number 2.  Maybe I must just show you the page.  Maybe if your lawyer can just show you the diary entry for the 9th of May.

MR LAX: Just to make it clear, the 2 is not in relation to your name.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I see the 2, my one the 2 is next to Deon.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Sorry, the question was not properly put.  Next to your name only the name Evans appears.  Now ...

MR DU PLESSIS: Sorry, could we just get a date?

CHAIRPERSON: 9 May.

LEON A MAREE: Okay, I see it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now van Zyl's evidence has been that Evans was your project and by that he meant that you originally were tasked to eliminate Gavin Evans.  Now it could also be argued that this diary entry in fact supports that evidence because we know that Mr van Zyl was tasked to eliminate Dullah Omar, we know that Calla Botha was working on Bruce White, we know that Staal Burger was working on "von Finkelstein".  Why are you, according to this diary entry, then tasked with Evans?

LEON A MAREE: I can't answer, that's not my diary.  I can speculate.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes?

LEON A MAREE: The name was given to me by Basson who wrote the diary and he didn't show me documentation to trace Evans.  Maybe you should ask Basson.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you see this is in May.  You've told us that to the best of your recollection, the steps you took to establish his address were in March, isn't that so?

CHAIRPERSON: That it took some months.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So you're telling us that it may well be that you still hadn't established his address in May?

LEON A MAREE: It's possible Sir, I don't know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And your speculation is that that would be the only reason why your name would be linked to Evans in May.

LEON A MAREE: That's not the only reason, it could be one of the reasons, I'm speculating.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What other reasons could there be?

LEON A MAREE: I don't know, I'm speculating.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.  Then return to Bundle A, page 30.  We've already agreed that the general nature of the evidence contained in paragraph 4 is false, but this statement that you were sent, the top of page 30
"because you were sent out of the country on a project, Gavin Evans was taken away from you."
Were you in fact sent out of the country at that stage on a project?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I was.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What project are you referring to there?

LEON A MAREE: If I can recall correctly, I'm thinking off the top of my head now, it was to Greece.  It wasn't a project, it was setting up, doing a business deal with a businessman in Greece.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What kind of business deal?

LEON A MAREE: We were trying to buy a rent-a-car business on the Island of Rode.  This was not funded by the CCB, it was part of my blue plan, part of Lema's thing.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Was this an independent business initiative of your own?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: In fact it had nothing to do with the CCB?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The use of the word project is then clearly incorrect.

LEON A MAREE: It's incorrect.  I considered it as a project because of my blue plan, but it wasn't a project as in an operational project, no.

MR LAX: But you surely wouldn't have been given an order then either.

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR LAX: So that's also not true.

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Right.  Paragraph 5, just read that into the record.
MR MAREE
"I only heard later that one Abram Slang testified before the TRC that there were plans to eliminate Mr Gavin Evans.  However, I was not involved at all in the formulation of such plans or made any attempt to execute such plans."

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'm just going to put it to you, that paragraph's also false because at the time you drafted this statement, you were aware that plans were implemented for his elimination, correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You were also aware that the reason why you were asked to establish his address, was part of the planning phase of that conspiracy to eliminate Mr Evans.

LEON A MAREE: No, I disagree with that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You're sent off by the CCB to find out where the man lives, correct?

LEON A MAREE: That's correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You find out afterwards that a plan was implemented to eliminate him.

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You put 2 and 2 together, what does it tell you?  Why was I sent to establish the man's address?

LEON A MAREE: I'm ...(intervention)

MR KAHANOVITZ: Because they wanted to kill him.

LEON A MAREE: No, I'm missing the point here.  This was - when the statement was made I was aware then, but not at the time when I was tasked to get his address.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'm putting it to you on the basis that you drafted, you signed this statement at the time that you were aware, even on your own version, that a plan had been implemented to eliminate Mr Evans, correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: At the time you ...(intervention)

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So you ask yourself, you're aware even at that time, you've already admitted this in your evidence,  "They sent me to find his address.  I knew that the reason that they were doing that was because they intended to take steps against him."

LEON A MAREE: I understand, sorry.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Subsequently you find out what the nature of those steps was, they wanted to kill the man.  Correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So you say to yourself, why did they send me to find out his address?  Because they wanted to use that information as part of a plan to kill him.  Correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.