Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 2000-02-16

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: From that time onwards, he would represent comrades who were detained and he will also represent those people who would be murdered and he would also contribute to their funerals and also contribute towards bail fees for those who were detained.  That is how we became associated and we are still associated up to this day.

ME DEHAL: Is it correct that there are records available of at least these 62 people who belonged to the Youth League of the UDF under your wing, under your instructions,  with you as the leader of the that Youth League of the UDF, who suffered prejudice at the level that you have recorded on pages 21 and 22?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, the records and the statements are with the attorney, Mr Dehal.  After their houses were burnt down, we hired a bus.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Didn't he give evidence about this before the Human Rights Commission and the Reparations Committee of the TRC and send in details?

ME DEHAL: Sorry, Mr de Jager, I'm not aware of that.  I know that this applicant has had on-going difficulties in having his applications heard and various presentations brought before different forums and perhaps he can answer that question.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Yes, because this concerns the victims that should be referred to the Reparations Committee and it's not connected with the Amnesty as it were.

ME DEHAL: I agree.  It seems as though it was not done.  Can we just ask him, if you don't mind?  Mr Madlala, have you given evidence before the TRC's Reparations Committee relating to the victims especially these 62 victims?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, on the 10th of July 1996, I contacted the TRC through the Social Workers in prison.  The statement takers from the TRC came to me on the 10th of July and I made a statement about ANC victims and I also made a statement about IFP victims, particularly those who were killed by comrades that I was aware of.  I also made a statement about the victims who had died, ANC victims as well as people whose houses were burnt down.  On the 19th of November 1998 a Commissioner from the Reparations Committee, came to me.  He had forms which they could fill, that is for the people whose statements had been approved by the TRC.  I then made arrangements for those people  to converge at Hibberdene to fill those forms.  That is what has happened with regards to the people on this list.  Unfortunately I sent messages to IFP victims, but I got no response, but I have heard since that some people did go to fill out the forms.  Likewise with ANC victims, those people who did not turn up to fill in the forms and I was informed that they were intimidated by the Chief who warned them not to involve themselves with me or the TRC, so those people have been unable to fill in those reparation forms.  That is all I know.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to tell me, you may or may not, are you able to tell me during what period these people whose houses were destroyed or burnt down, whose names appear on this list, whether that occurred - during what period was that?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: This first started on the 10th of February.  Also on the 11th of February and it stopped for a while.  It restarted on the 16th of March and on the 24th and the 25th as well as the 16th of March.  I was then arrested in April, so I do not know what happened thereafter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

ME DEHAL: And all of this in the year 1990, is it?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, that is correct.

ME DEHAL: Thank  you.  Mr Madlala, I now take you to pages 23 to 25 of the bundle.  Is that an affidavit that you deposed to, I see that the copy that we have is not signed, but will you confirm that this is your affidavit which deals with this incident briefly, the background of your political activity, the issues between the IFP and the UDF and do you confirm the correctness thereof?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, I made the statement, although it is a shortened version because Mr Cele said I would give more details when I appear before the Committee.

ME DEHAL: And of course the statement which you've signed, is the handwritten statement contained on pages 26 to 32 of the bundle, which has now been typed, being the one we've just referred to.  Correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: Mr Chairperson, I am indebted to you for the indulgence.  My assistant has just walked in.  This statement is at hand.  May I cause copies to be handed over?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: This document will go in as Exhibit A.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.  Mr Madlala, I know that you have not seen the statement.  I have not either, but this is a statement compiled on your instructions to Ms Mohammed from my offices.  Can we go through the statement briefly?

CHAIRPERSON: If you can avoid repeating what has already been covered fully so far, I'll be pleased.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Could I perhaps suggest that during the tea adjournment, you go through and he could only confirm it?  You need not read it out again, we've heard his evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Unless there is something here which is not in the previous statement.

ME DEHAL: I agree with that.  I see it's almost 11 o'clock.  Can we take that short adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take the adjournment and resume at 11.15.

ME DEHAL: Thank you very much.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: (s.u.o)

ME DEHAL: (Cont)
	Mr Madlala, do you confirm that during the short recess you were taken through this statement, Exhibit A, and you confirm the correctness thereof, save for the word evening in paragraph 18?  What do you want to alter that to?  You said the same evening is incorrect.  Do you want to say:  "The same day"?  Is that it?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: I did not understand it clearly because the incident happened during the day, so the word evening poses a problem.

ME DEHAL: So if I altered that to read the same day, meaning the 25th of March, would that be okay with you?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, I would agree with that.  25th of March, during the day, not in the evening.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.  Mr Chairperson and Honourable Members, may I then ask that Exhibit A, paragraph 18 be amended to read "The same day (25th March 1990)"?

CHAIRPERSON: That amendment will be made.

ME DEHAL: Thank you, Sir.  So Mr Madlala, apart from that, do you confirm the correctness of Exhibit A on all 22 paragraphs?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, that is correct.

ME DEHAL: May I take you to paragraph 13?  If you recall, just before the short adjournment, in answer to the Chair's question, you talked of the period as having commenced on the 10th of February, do you recall that?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: I would like to clear up something.  We should rather start in January and not February.

CHAIRPERSON: What started in January?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That was the beginning of the IFP attack launched on my home on the 1st and 2nd of January as well as on the 7th, as well as a meeting that I held with IFP leaders on the 8th of January, so that everyone would be in the picture of what happened.  I would like to be given an opportunity to talk about this incident briefly, particularly for the benefit of the victims.

ME DEHAL: Yes, I don't mind that, but do you mind just looking at paragraph 10 before you do so?   On page 2 of Exhibit A, you deal there with the 1st of January 1990, do you see that?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes.

ME DEHAL: Yes, you were wanting to say something?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Let us look at paragraph 9.

ME DEHAL: Yes, carry on.