Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Now what happened to the others?  You said they were separated.  Were they tried separately or - you see I'm asking you these things, because this is the first time that we actually hear this.  It's not in the statement.  I've gone through the statement.

JABU MASEKO: The others, some of them were convicted and sentenced.  Some got suspended sentences.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did anyone amongst the group become a witness for the state?  Do you know?  Did anyone give evidence against you or any of the others who were being charged?

JABU MASEKO: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: So you've got a five year suspended sentence, you said?  Is that right?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: The lawyer, do you, can you remember the name?

JABU MASEKO: I don't remember his name, but his base is in Nelspruit.  It wasn't Mjapela, because Mjapela was representing the others.  But I can't remember his name, the person who was representing me.

RUSSELL ALLY: But Mjapela would have known this other lawyer?

JABU MASEKO: You mean Mjapela?

RUSSELL ALLY: The other lawyer ...

JABU MASEKO: Yes, I think so.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now if you can assist us.  I know that you may not want to answer this question, but it's important for us to try and understand the nature of this conflict that was taking place.  Was it common place or was it happening fairly often that there were clashes between the youth I would say, because you speak about yourself as being a member of the ANC Youth League.  Although at the time. we know the ANC was still unbanned, so I, was still banned rather, sorry, so I assume you're speaking about the UDF as opposed to the ANC Youth League.
 Whatever.  Were the clashes between the police and the youth;  were these violent clashes, because you speak about policemen's houses as having been burned, you speak about this policeman, alleging accusing you of having had a petrol bomb.  From what you can remember from this period, was this the nature of the conflicts;  that is was violent and ...

JABU MASEKO: No, I would say the police started the whole violence.

RUSSELL ALLY: And how did the youth respond?  Did they also respond with violence?  This is not about a portion in blame, please Jabu, or about who was right, who was wrong.  It's just to try and get a sense of what was going on at the time.

JABU MASEKO: What is happening is that, as I explained before, we were suppose to have a meeting with the councillors.  And the police came and they started the whole violence.  And even the evidence that people burned houses came to the police.  Because if they didn't come, people would not have burned the houses.

RUSSELL ALLY: But houses were burned?  Policemen's houses were burned?  Were councillors houses burned as well?  Houses of those who ...

JABU MASEKO: They were burned after.  I just heard when I was in hospital that the houses were burned.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you, Jabu.  I don't have any more questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Jabu, you mention first in your statement, that your people were going to, you were waiting for a meeting with the councillors.  Where the people in the community, did they accepts the councillors?  Or were they against the councillors?

JABU MASEKO: People just wanted to go and ask us to why the random just increased.

YASMINE SOOKA: But we're trying to understand what was happening at the township at the time.  Was it your impression that the people in the community supported the councillors, or were they against the councillors?

JABU MASEKO: They were against the councillors, because they were protesting against rent, as I said.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were the councillors seen as being part of the, of the old Government.  Were they seen as representing the other side, in a sense?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: And so when there were clashes, were there clashes against the councillors also?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: So the people in the community were clashing both with the councillors and the police.

JABU MASEKO: Correct, but I am saying we're just in the cars.  The police started the whole issue.

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes.  And obviously from what you're saying, the police responded by breaking up these meetings and that is how you in fact, got shot.  Is that what you say?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: And were, you did say that people's houses were burned.  Do you see the township involved in the burning of these houses?

JABU MASEKO: I'm not sure about that.

YASMINE SOOKA: When you, did you, when your were interviewed initially by, in a group; why would the trials of the other people be separated from yours?

JABU MASEKO: I think at the time, there were people who were still ruling and they thought, maybe the person who shot me, shouldn't be find guilty of anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: And the people who were represented by Chapele;  were they being charged with the same offense that you were charged with?

JABU MASEKO: Yes, some of them.

YASMINE SOOKA: And what was the charge for them;  burning houses as well?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: Your lawyer, the one who gave evidence, at the time your sentence was going to be passed;  did he come from Nelspruit as well?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.  He was from Nelspruit.

YASMINE SOOKA: But you don't remember his name.

JABU MASEKO: I don't remember his name.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Jabu.

CHAIRPERSON: Prof Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: Jabu, many questions have been asked about what happened in the township on that day.  Can I ask a number of questions about yourself, about what happened to you?  But before I do that, you said that your mother was also shot that day.  Was she severely injured?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.

PROF MEIRING: What happened to your mother afterwards?

JABU MASEKO: I didn't get to see my mother as I explained that.  After they told me that she was shot, while I was trying to go to the direction of the place she was shot, I was shot too.

PROF MEIRING: But your mother is still living?

JABU MASEKO: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  I would like, Jabu, to ask you about your life.  How was your life affected by what happened to you?  Were you able to work, to care for your family afterwards?

JABU MASEKO: No, things are not the same, because I can't do some of the things for myself.  Even if people wants to employ me, they can't, because I can't stand for a long period.

PROF MEIRING: But who takes care of your family?  Where do you find the money to live from?

JABU MASEKO: My parents and my close relatives and some friends, they do give me money to send my children to school.

PROF MEIRING: You have three children.  How old are they?

JABU MASEKO: That's correct.  My first-born was borne in 1983, November, second born in 1986, third born is 1991, April on the 1st.  I'm not sure whether it's the 1st or the 21st.

PROF MEIRING: And all of them attend school at the moment?

JABU MASEKO: Correct.

PROF MEIRING: You also say that you still have pain, that especially when it's cold, it's very painful.  Are you undergoing medical treatment at the moment?

JABU MASEKO: I used to go to doctors, but at the present moment, I just go to chemist to get some medication, because I don't have enough money to go to see a doctor.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.