Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-23

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: They are not included Sir.  What has happened is that the agent sent from Port Natal went to Swaziland, got introduced and visited people and surreptitiously stole these documents and brought them back to South Africa.  South Africa then subjected those documents to tests, with the evidence of their informant that I collected these documents quietly and clandestinely in house so-and-so, while I was meeting Charles Ndaba.  In some instances it might be that Charles just left the room, in other instances they would send people to collect a glass that a person may have used to have a drink, so that they could bring the glass back to fingerprint it.  That's what they did with Keith McKenzie and Rashied.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS POSWA: So in your view, Mr Maharaj, you feel that the allegation that Mr Ndaba was an informer is totally unjustified?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I have only so far given the sample of reports that had reached us while working in Vula inside the country, but there are other bases on which the question rises about Charles.  He was then suggested by Headquarters that he should come in as a reinforcement to our personnel.  He was crossed into South Africa in the first week of February.  He was put in a unit under Mbuso Shabalala, not above.  Mbuso Shabalala was heading that section.  The weekend of their disappearance they had gone out to work in KwaMashu which was one of their assigned areas of work.  We already became aware by Monday, I think it's the 9th, that these two men had disappeared.  I was in Johannesburg at the time and I received a secret communication from Kibusa, Siphiwe Nyanda, to say that these two cadres had not returned.  We immediately agreed in communication that a search should be made to ascertain what had happened to these two.  Secondly, that measures should be taken to abandon all safe-houses that these two cadres knew of and that was not because we suspected them to be agents, that was because it was a necessary step for our own security.  Now, we then ascertained that Charles Ndaba had not kept certain appointments on Friday the 6th.  he had also not kept appointments on Saturday.  As regards Mbuso Shabalala, there was an appointment that he was supposed to have with Charles Ndaba on the Sunday and Mbuso Shabalala's family said that he was with them on Sunday.  We then arranged through the family for lawyers to begin making inquiries with C R Swart on the Monday and Tuesday.  So, my sequence of the arrests is different from the one here.  I also have a different sequence of the arrests on the 12th.

MS POSWA: Mr Maharaj, can I just interject here and take you back to the evidence we heard from Mr Botha, paragraph 17 of the second version of events?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Paragraph?

MS POSWA: 17.  Yes.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Paragraph 17, yes I've got it.

MS POSWA: Would Charles have had that much information about Vula as suggested by Mr Botha?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I just need that version of...

MS POSWA: Sorry, not paragraph 17.

CHAIRPERSON: What Exhibit is it?

MS POSWA: Exhibit D, Mr Chair.  Oh sorry, paragraphs 8 and 9.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Chairperson, it is impossible that Charles Ndaba should have the information on paragraph 8 and 9 at the moment of his entry into the country.  I say this for the following reasons.  First of all, the identity of myself and Siphiwe Nyanda who entered the country in July 1988 was so strictly guarded that even the National Executive Committee of the ANC was informed in different that I was in hospital in the Soviet Union since 1987 and that Siphiwe Nyanda was undergoing a field officer's training course lasting 5 years at a military academy in the Soviet Union.  Nobody, no cadre being sent in the country, would be given that information, it's completely contrary to any simple underground rule.  The cadre could have got arrested crossing the border at Swaziland, got tortured and immediately under torture says, "But Mac and Siphiwe are in the country" and when the person settled in the country, we always only revealed our identity on very strict need-to-know.  What was Vula's mission?  Paragraph 8.  Each cadre was only briefed about their specific area of work.  We were not going to tell them that we were co-ordinating the underground political section, military section, Intelligence section and the overt sections of struggle and take the risk that in the course of their highly risky work, if they got arrested by accident and were tortured, they should reveal the top committee.  Certainly we'd learned from Rivonia and we'd learned from our own arrests that you don't do things like that.  Charles Ndaba, I say he was brought in on the 7th of February.  By then the February 2 speech had been delivered by F W de Klerk.  Shortly, a few days after the 7th of February, Nelson Mandela was released.  The situation was now extremely fluid.  In fact, precisely because of that situation, we began to introduce systematic discussion, to talk about the option of what we do with the underground as this situation develops, not in order that we take the decision, but in order that we prepare our forces for whatever would be decided by the leadership.  So Charles Ndaba would not know this overall mission, this is ex post facto, we were not going to reveal our communications systems, we had spent 50 000 pounds developing our communications system, even the Soviets wanted it from me and I wouldn't give it to them and you think I would give it to a cadre to say "you man it"?  Communications was manned by myself directly with one person working under me, by Siphiwe Nyanda directly.  I and Siphiwe Nyanda did the transmissions, we personally did the receiving and we personally did the decoding until work expanded to the point where I took on Janet Glove as my secretary and Siphiwe took on one person in Durban.  The only other person who was briefed about the communications system was Ronnie Kasrils who entered the country in February 1990 as part of the top leadership structure and he was briefed about the communications system and was being taught to use it because he would hive off to take command of a particular geographical area.  That's where the communication was.   No way Charles Ndaba would know that.

MR LAX: If I may, Mr Maharaj, when did you take on a secretary?  When was that approximately?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I took on, Janet Glove had been infiltrated into the country separately before my entry into the country, in a separate mission.  Lusaka then alerted me that she was present in the country as a propaganda worker.  I then eventually took her on under Vula as propaganda worker then found that her computer skills and training in disguises was such that I took her on as my secretary round about early 89.

MR LAX: So it's long after this incident?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Long.

MR LAX: No, no, sorry, early 89?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Long before, long before and Janet Glove was then working directly under me.

MS POSWA: Mr Chairman, we are still on Exhibit G.  Could you comment on the contents of paragraph 17?