Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.   I explained what happened to my husband the previous night.   My husband suggested that we should sell that house.   I didn't know that he was doing this because he wanted to marry someone else.   We sold the house.  We went to his sister's place.   When we were staying there, he brought his girlfriend to his sister's house and I was supposed to go and share a bed with his sister.   And as I was relating this problem to his sister, his sister told me that he doesn't want any noise in his house - in her house.   And she said I must keep quiet.  So, I did like that.   One day my husband told me that he is not working and I am not working, I should go to look for a job.   I agreed because I wanted to take care of my children.   At that time my last born was three years old.   IO went to a coloured family to work there and she told me that she was going to buy me a bed the next day in that coloured house, because I was sleeping there, but she made me sleep on the floor.   Over the weekends I would go and visit my children.   One day as I was going to visit my children, when I arrive at his sister's place, my children were not there.   I asked his sister and his sister said to me, "Your husband took your sister.   He said he was going to Inanda with them".   And then something rang a bell in my head.   I said I am going to look for a certain church at Inanda.   When I arrived there, my children were staying there without food.   And only the last one was given food, because my - his eldest sister would go to a reverend's house and ask for food for him.   At that time my husband is staying with this women, they aren't married, they are just staying together.   And he will go there for four days and if he is not there the children will not have food.    We can understand that but we just want to know exactly what happened, what was the end?   What was the end of the story?   ---   What he did, he took this women and left for Johannesburg, and married the woman there.  They left for Johannesburg.   This happened in 1983, up until today.  Sometimes he will take my sons and leave with them for Jo'burg.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: At this moment you are staying with your children.  Okay, let's go back a little bit so that we clarify one of two things.   When you were arrested, you told us about Mr Nyati.   Where is Mr Nyati?

WITNESS:   I don't know where he is, but he was a well-known SB.   Every ANC member knows Nyati.   He first joined ANC as a member, and then his aim was to sell other ANC members, sell them out.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: You never met Mr Nyati again?

WITNESS:   No, I never.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: There were policemen who harassed you while you were in prison.   Can you still recall the names?

WITNESS:   No, I don't.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: Again you also talked about matron who listed you on a blacklist.   Do you remember this matron?

WITNESS:   No, I don't, the only one that I remember is Dorothy Cornel, my previous matron, and she is now late.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: You also said they took your son in prison and up until today you don't know whether your son is still alive or he is dead.  Do you still remember who took your child in prison?   Like the name of the police.

WITNESS:   He was Sistalabi(?), Sistalabi is the one who took my son.  It was in Fourth Prison in Johannesburg.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: And these other ladies, Mrs Ngcobo, Mrs Ndimande, where are they?

WITNESS:   Rosine is now late, Rosine Mathabula, the only one who is still alive is Israel Ndimande, and Ngcobo.

MARIE ODENDAAL MAGWAZA: I would like to state you that we understand your story, we understand all the harassment that you have experienced.   At home, outside home, it is so said but we do understand and to us you appear like a hero, like our hero who are healthy.  We respect you and the whole community and the society respects you.   We are very happy that you came today and sit here and tell your story.   Thank you very much.

WITNESS:  My last born is a little bit disturbed mentally.   And she is also at ... (inaudible) ... Mental School.   Mrs Majali knows my child.   She is the one who took her to this school.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: ... to tell us your story.   Yours is one which goes back right to 1958, when you trained as a nurse.   You have had a very hard time and I am sure the pain of never knowing the reality about what really happened to your daughter is something which lingers with you all the time.   We have heard what you have said.  I just had one question, do you not receive any maintenance from your husband for any of the children?

WITNESS:   No, I am not receiving.  I tried to claim maintenance from him, because he also stole my two sons and it was late when I tried to claim this maintenance because he was now sick.  He never maintained them since we separated.

CHAIRPERSON: We have heard what you said and we have heard what you said about your last daughter needing some kind of counselling as well.   We thank you for coming here today, it is an incredibly hard story, your life seems to have been one of terrible upheaval and you yourself have made enormous sacrifices to the struggle.   You, in a sense, what we are all benefiting from is the product of the work of people like yourself and if it was not for people like yourself we would not be able to sit here.   But the sacrifice indeed has been very great from yourself.  Thank you for coming, we will see what we are able to do.  And we will contact you to tell you where we are in terms of both investigation and in terms of some of the requests you have made.   Thank you for coming today, Mama.

WITNESS:  I have one other thing that I would like to bring to the commission's attention.   I am in a slum area, in a squatter camp.   And I am staying there with my children. I would like the commission, if they can, give some help just to help my children to take them to school to pay for their education.   Or even if it means to take them for a dressmaking school or a driving school.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ...  to all the requests that victims are making, and from what they hear they will make a recommendation to the President about what kind of assistance can be rendered to the children, and to people like yourself.   Thank you, Mama.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /DORA KHOSI MKHIZE

CHAIRPERSON: DORA KHOSI MKHIZE

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... Tiny Mayer to assist you with the leading of your evidence.

MS T MAYER: Thank you, Madam Chair.   I greet you, Khosi.   How are you feeling?   I am just going to help you along because we are running out of time.   Do you not be troubled because I am not going to rush you, I will give you enough time for you to relate your story, but whenever we feel we are running out of time I will just lead you with the questions.   We have got your statement here in front of us, where you are going to tell us about three people:  yourself;  as well as your mother, Phihliwe Mkhize;  as well as your sister.  I want to thank you for the courage that you have shown because you said you wanted to be seen by the people, you don't want to testify in camera.   And you want the world to see you and you want the world to know your story.   We shall request you to tell us briefly about your family as well as the place in which you were staying in Mpumulanga.  Tell us what was happening in 1987 that led to your harassment and torture?

WITNESS:   There were fights in Mpumulanga, but when this happened we were lucky, because where we were staying it was the ANC stronghold, though I didn't know anything about politics at that time.   But Mr - my elder brother ... (intervention)

MS T MAYER: You said you were staying in an ANC stronghold, but there was also IFP members, where were you staying?  Were you staying at different areas?