Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-09

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't understand the other sentence about SOSCO.  Is you evidence that you were not members of SOSCO at all or is your evidence that you were members of SOSCO but SOSCO was not involved at all in politics?

SIMON MORRIS: We were never involved in politics.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you members of SOSCO?

SIMON MORRIS: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR AMEEN: Continue about the torturing in the bedroom.

SIMON MORRIS: At some stage we were told to lie under the bed to sleep because this was the last day for us, that's what they said.  We got into the bed, I think it's a small bed, we pretended to be sleeping.

MR AMEEN: That is under the bed?

SIMON MORRIS: Under the bed.  Music was still going on, playing very high and some of them were drinking at that stage because as they frequented in the bedroom one will hear that they are drinking beer because there was also beer in that bedroom.  And at one stage I was called out because the other guy said:  "(indistinct), I then came out.  I was told to lie on top of the bed, I did that.  They took a plastic, a black plastic and tied it around my head.  I don't know what type of material they used to beat my head but it was so painful that I even end up, I did bite the plastic in order not to suffocate.

MR AMEEN: When you say material, it was an object?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes it was an object.

MR AMEEN: A hard object?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.  He then accused me again of playing for a team which he doesn't like.

MR AMEEN: When you refer to he, who are you referring to?

SIMON MORRIS: I'm referring to this chap.

MR AMEEN: That is Mr Hlasa, the first applicant.

SIMON MORRIS: Ja.  He asked me about the activities in Kaiser Chiefs.  I then said that I was a second division player.  He then went on asking me why did I play for this kind of a team because he hated the team, but at that stage I couldn't answer because remember I was from the plastic, I just kept quiet.  And then I was taken to the kitchen where I met Mbulelo Mabena.

MR AMEEN: And who is Mbulelo Mabena?

SIMON MORRIS: Mbulelo Mabena is deceased now because he died on the very same day.

MR AMEEN: He was one of the six of you?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.  We were instructed to draw up a list of our names and our addresses because what they said to us they were going to negotiate with our parents that we are released.  They wanted money for us in order to get released.  We then wrote down the list because we though we were going to be released.  We wrote down the list then we gave them the list and then tortured again, went back to the bedroom, got under the bed and slept again.

MR AMEEN: You were ordered to get under the bed or did you do that voluntarily?

SIMON MORRIS: There was no option Mr Ameen because when we were abducted in Orlando East, if we were really activists we could have ran away, or if you know that you have done something wrong you always try to hide or run away.  We did not do that, does it come to your mind when somebody does wrong and then just helplessly without fighting back, we did not fight back.

MR AMEEN: Mr Morris what happened after that.

SIMON MORRIS: After that I think it was getting dark, maybe between the hours of seven or eight.

MR AMEEN: Can I interrupt you and just ask you ... (intervention)

SIMON MORRIS: There's something I forgot Mr Ameen, my apologies.  There was one incident which happened and I think the third applicant is part and parcel of that.  Where I was told to stand up before getting under the bed, that is when I was from the kitchen.  They said I must untie this wire, this curtain wire.

MR AMEEN: Around your waist.

SIMON MORRIS: Yes, I did that.  Automatically the trouser would then go down because the trouser did not even have a zip.  They then went to the private parts with a pliers, taking turns in - I don't know what I can call it, torture and they seemed to enjoy it very much because the one would say no you did not do it well, give it to me I will do it much better.  The other one will then say this is not the way to do it because there was one stage where the scrotal sac - I hope you understand what I am saying because the two balls - the one person was trying to just to open this pliers and then crush it.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry ... (inaudible) crushing the balls?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: Were they actually crushed or was he trying to do that?

SIMON MORRIS: Fortunately as the balls are moving voluntarily maybe he got the part where the ball was not at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we understand, I didn't mean actually crush, I just meant pressing.

MR AMEEN: Right, continue.  When did this assault stop?

SIMON MORRIS: There was a time when I started crying very loudly and was told to shut up because the other guy whom I did not know said if I keep on screaming he will blow my brains out and I saw that this was a real gun, it was not a toy gun.

MR AMEEN: How old were you at that time?

SIMON MORRIS: I was nineteen years old.

MR AMEEN: When did this assault stop?

SIMON MORRIS: It stopped, I think it took about ten to twenty minutes.

MR AMEEN: That's with the plier?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: The whole assault from the time you were taken into the house, into the kitchen, into the different bedrooms, when did that stop.  The assault and the interrogation?

SIMON MORRIS: Do you mean the duration of ... (intervention)

MR AMEEN: Yes the duration of the whole ...

SIMON MORRIS: When we accompanied Vuyani it was around past two to three.  Possibly when we entered the house it was maybe it was five past three or ten past three and possibly when we entered or when we moved out of the house it was about past seven, maybe quarter past or ten past or even half past seven.

MR AMEEN: But it was after dark?

SIMON MORRIS: Ja.

MR AMEEN: Now up to the point where you are now being taken away from this house, is there any other material fact or factor that you want to bring to the attention of the committee?

SIMON MORRIS: Can you ask that question again?

MR AMEEN: Up to the point where you are being taken away from the house, is there any other material point that you want to bring to the attention of the committee?

SIMON MORRIS: When we were taken out of the house we got instructions that when we move out of the house we must face down, we must not look on the sides.  We went out and got into the boot of the car.

MR AMEEN: Now were any of you six blindfolded when you got out of the house.

SIMON MORRIS: From my sake I don't remember.

MR AMEEN: Were you blindfolded?

SIMON MORRIS: No not.

MR AMEEN: Which car boot were you ordered to get into?

SIMON MORRIS: I believe maybe it was the Mazda.

MR AMEEN: And who was with you?

SIMON MORRIS: In my group?

MR AMEEN: In your group.

SIMON MORRIS: In my group it was myself, Sekano Kgase and Vuyani Nkomo.

MR AMEEN: And Vuyani's a deceased?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: Or one of the deceased?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

PANEL: ... (inaudible)

SIMON MORRIS: It was myself, Simon Morris, Edwin Vuyani Nkomo and Sekano Kgase.

CHAIRPERSON: Earlier on you said that the third applicant started applying the pliers on you.  Who is the third applicant?

SIMON MORRIS: The third applicant I think is the middle one.

CHAIRPERSON: Just point him out.

SIMON MORRIS: The middle one.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes indeed you have pointed out Mr Thandakubona.

MR AMEEN: Yes thank you Mr Chairman.  All three of you were put into the boot?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: And you were then taken to a house.  The applicants have given evidence that it was comrade Jeff's house.  Did you know whose house it was and where this house was?

SIMON MORRIS: We did not know who this house was and even the place at that stage ... (intervention)

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Ameen you said comrade Jeff's house.

MR AMEEN: Sorry my apologies, comrade Glen's house.  Thank you Madam Chair.