Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-16

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And as far as you are aware, did they know that she had been abducted?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: No Mr chairperson.

MR VISSER: Would they have known about the decision or the intention that she be eliminated?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: No.

MR VISSER: Could you approximately remember how long they stayed there on the farm?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: I am not sure, but it could have been an hour or two.

MR VISSER: An hour or two?  And that is as far as your knowledge goes regarding the matter of Ms Ndwandwe?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And you have stated that you departed from the farm before she was eliminated?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And Labuschagne and Verwey, what were their positions?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: I can' recall exactly, they may have departed before me, but I am not entirely certain.

MR VISSER: With regard to the incident of Mr Pumeso Nxiweni, were you physically involved before his elimination with anything which had to do with it?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: No, not at all.

MR VISSER: Were you aware of his activities or his alleged activities?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, I was aware.

MR VISSER: Were you also aware or just to save time, were you aware of the activities of the kwaMashu 3?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: In the sense that the kwaMashu unit and other units operated in the Durban area?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, in that sense, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Did you have any access to information, security community information which indicated that these people were indeed involved in terrorist attacks?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: With regard to Mr Nxiweni, what was the first piece of information which you became aware of regarding his elimination?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Mr Chairperson, on a certain day Mr Taylor and if I remember correctly, Mr Botha came to tell me that they had eliminated them.

MR VISSER: Yes.  You did not submit that information for investigations against the involved persons?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: No, I did not.

MR VISSER: And in that stage, you identified yourself with the elimination?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And you also cooperated in the cover up of the incidents?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And the same goes for the kwaMashu 3 incident for which you are applying for amnesty?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: That is entirely correct.

MR VISSER: Who informed you regarding their elimination?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: If I recall correctly, it was Mr Taylor.

MR VISSER: Mr Taylor?  And once again, you didn't take any steps to have the incident investigated as an offence or institute any prosecutions?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: No, I did not.

MR VISSER: And you also associated yourself with that deed and the conduct of your staff members?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: On page 41, or at least before we get to that, you are the Commander here in Durban.  Could you tell the Committee how you experienced your position, and which influences were of application to you so that the Committee can develop a better comprehension of the reasons why you participated in the actions regarding which you have given evidence this morning?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Chairperson, at that stage before my arrival and after my arrival in Durban, with my period of service there, there was a continuous series of acts of terrorism which were committed in Natal.

MR VISSER: Botha described it as Bombay.

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And someone put it here to Mr Botha that it was a hotspot in South Africa?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.  At a certain stage things were quite serious.  One drove from one bomb explosion to another.  Incidents would take place within minutes from each other.
	One would be sitting in one's office after having arrived back from a scene of an incident, and then hear about another.  There would be up to three incidents per day.

MR VISSER: Did that result in you having to work long hours?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: We never looked at our watches.

MR VISSER: You and your colleagues?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, me and the people who worked below me.  Especially when the day broke that three bombs exploded on one day, I realised that we would have to do something in order to normalise the situation.

MR VISSER: Were you filled with feelings of powerlessness regarding what was happening?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: That is true.  To such an extent that I created special opportunities to speak to some of my fellow officers and to illustrate the situation to them, and to emphasise that we could not allow the situation to continue as such.
	One weapon stockpiling point after another, was discovered, where great amounts of weaponry, ammunition and explosives were found and they were meant for use in the country.

MR VISSER: Mr Botha referred in cross-examination by Mr Prior to these conferences which you had with your soldiers during which you encouraged them to be more effective and he described you as fiery.  What would your commentary be regarding that?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Chairperson, he is correct in saying that.   I was under a lot of pressure as the Commander of the Security Branch of Natal.  The Security Branch was responsible for terrorism, we had to prevent it.  We were under a lot of pressure from Head Office.
	We heard the politicians saying that we would hunt them, we would sniff them out no matter where they went, we would not allow the ANC to destroy this country.  We would not allow a South African Communist Party government.
	In the process, and I will state this directly, I must have done more than just motivate the people that worked for me, I motivated them to a great extent to ensure that we combat this onslaught.

MR VISSER: Did you place pressure on them?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, I pressurised them tremendously.  I told them that if one could consider the statements of the ANC, the documentation, the notion of a People's War, those were the phrases which I used, to encourage my colleagues to put everything into the struggle, to prevent a new dispensation from coming into power.

CHAIRPERSON: You say you did this, but as I recollect at the same time, pressure was coming onto you from above, there were political speeches made, saying very much the same sort of thing?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Precisely so Mr Chairperson.  These things were said on platforms by the politicians.  All of us know this and I can see this in my mind's eye, how the politicians said that we will not allow this sort of thing, we will never allow that a communist government be established here.
	These were all things which impressed me and placed a great deal of pressure on me, and I transferred this to the colleagues who worked with me.

MR VISSER: Mr Steyn it is one thing to say that politicians were talking about it, but in practice, isn't it simply so that that which the politicians say, becomes part of one's duties to observe and execute?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And is that how you saw it?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, that is how I understood it.

MR VISSER: You also referred indirectly a few moments ago that you visited scenes where bomb explosions had taken place and so forth.  Did these scenes leave any impressions on you?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, they left impressions and it made one more determined to give one's best in combatting the struggle.