Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No Chairperson, we didn't form a new SDU.

MR MADASA: You know that the ANC made a call for the formation of SDU's is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes Chairperson.

MR MADASA: Was there a call made for the ANC Youth League to defend the community?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes the ANC Youth League was part of the community, they were able to form an SDU.

MR MADASA: But your organisation as Youth League was only comprised of ANC members, is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: And the ANC call was that the SDU should be non-partisan, are you aware of that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is the area where I'm aware that is why I said as part of the Civic all organisations reported to the civic.

MR MADASA: Let's talk about the attack at Blanko, Blanko's house.  Is it correct that on the 6th December you, that is ANC Youth League members, you all came together at the spot where you usually met?  Is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct I said even other members of the community were present.

MR MADASA: Who were those members of the community.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Those who came from Block A, other came from Block B, others came from Block C.

MR MADASA: But the meeting was for ANC Youth League members.  Is that not so?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: There was no meeting as such.

MR MADASA: Are you saying you did not meet on the 6th December?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I've already said that we met where we were supposed to meet yes, we met but it was not a meeting.  It was not to respond to the call about the death of Bulelwa.

MR MADASA: May I request you to speak a little bit softly please and a little bit slow.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Thank you sir. ...[inaudible

CHAIRPERSON: But there's no translation what's the problem?

INTERPRETER: There was translation, can I repeat?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I say chairperson, it was not a meeting, a formal meeting, it was because of the call, we met because of the call of Bulelwa's death.  She was already dead by then.

MR MADASA: At that meeting you then planned to attack the SDU members, is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It is not about the attack, it was to apprehend them and bring them to the community.

MR MADASA: Did you bring Blanko to the community?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We did not because he resisted the apprehension.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: But on Friday when you testified you said you found Blanko asleep after...don't rush.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Okay.

MR MADASA: And the day after attacked him, you did not speak of trying to apprehend him?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson, maybe I did not explain that -but the way it is we were tired about what was done by members of the SDU's.  I explained that we started from other places which belonged to SDU members then we proceeded to Blanko's house then we found him asleep.

MR MADASA: Did you kill him whilst he was asleep?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No he was awake but at the time he was resistant that he should come with us.

MR MADASA: Did you ask him to come with you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't understand your question?

MR MADASA: Did you ask him to come with you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes we told him that we are tired about what they're doing within the community.

MR MADASA: When you went to Blanko's place where were you from?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't understand?

MR MADASA: Where were you from?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We were from - we started from where we met at Block C.

MR MADASA: So from Block C you went to Blanko's place?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We started from other houses which belonged to SDU's then we did not find them.

MR MADASA: Which houses are those?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The first house is Vusi's place.  We were a group, the others went to other places so I don't know where they went to.

MR MADASA: Did you go to Manyala's place - Block D?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't remember well as I said that we were in groups.

MR MADASA: In the group in which you were did you proceed from C straight to Blanko?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Before we went to Blanko's place and then we passed - proceeded - then we missed him.  After that he spent a long time - maybe he was going to call others - so we tried to apprehend those who we think who were inside the community.

MR MADASA: After you had seen Bulelwa's body did Buthelezi tell you to go and attack the SDU members?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I've explained in the beginning, Chairperson, Buthelezi came to my place crying, he was not present there, he went back.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that Mr Buthelezi was not present at the meeting that where the [indistinct] from blocks A, B, C had gathered?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct Chairperson.

MR MADASA: Now we've heard that some of the members had removed items at Blanko's place?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I heard from the first time from members of the SDU's.  Even in the morning when they apprehended me they didn't show me what has been taken.

MR MADASA: Now during that time in '93 were you working?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was working temporarily but at that time I had been retrenched.

MR MADASA: How old were you that time?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was 22 years old.

MR MADASA: Were there other members of ANC Youth League working seeing that they were around 14, 16 years old?

CHAIRPERSON: I would have thought if they were 14 they would be at school?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't remember if there were some members of the Youth League who were working.  The majority of them were students.

MR MADASA: Were they attending school?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson, they were not going to school because of the situation at that time.

MR MADASA: It is said that some of your members owned shacks, is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They were not their own shacks, those were the hiding places when they were harassed by the Stability Unit because the Stability Unit would come at any time so those were their hiding places.

MR MADASA: So your members had shacks where they would hide?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, sir.

MR MADASA: How many were those shacks?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't know how many there were because we were many.

MR MADASA: Would they spend most of their time at those shacks or at their homes?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Much of the time they'd spend at their homes, they'd go to those shacks when they expect
the Stability Unit would come.

MR MADASA: Now you said after you were apprehended by the SDU members, did you say Oscar - Oscar tried to shoot you, or Armoed?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That's Armoed.

MR MADASA: He tried to shoot you in the presence of the people?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was in the morning, I think it was before 6 o'clock or after 5 o'clock in the morning.  There was a certain lady who came out and she was chased away.

MR MADASA: Why did Armoed try to shoot you?  Where were you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I have already explained, I was in front of him because one of them started to shoot with 765 rifle, he tried three times until the magazine went out.

MR MADASA: You said on Friday he tried to shoot you when you were at the people where the people had converged?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I said it's Oscar who tried to shoot me where we were where people were around or present.

MR MADASA: Now it's correct that Oscar was part of the group which went to fetch you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.