Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-13

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes the change that I agree with is putting Africans in parliament to rubber stamp the things that were done by the government that oppressed us and be granted freedom to be involved in politics, but that was not the reason for us to fight at the time, that was something like that.

CHAIRPERSON: Listen to me carefully now, I'm not here to listen to political speeches, you understand?  I'm busy with your application, you understand?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes I do but I'm forced to mention this because I'm here because of politics.  If I was here for my personal gain I would put politics aside but I'm here because of politics.

CHAIRPERSON: Now are you able to live in this new South Africa peacefully?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is my wish because I'm very proud of my country, that is what made me to join PAC and fight for my country.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Pan Africanist Congress not represented in Parliament?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: There are PAC members in Parliament but they are not part of the government of national unity but they are just there as an opposition party.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, there is also a Constitution operative in this country that was not operative during the days of apartheid, not so?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now tell me something, every time you think that the PAC loses a vote or doesn't get what it wants then the opposition must be killed, or have you now changed?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Will you please repeat your question sir?

CHAIRPERSON: You said that during the time of this attack that you needed to get rid of the opposition because they were obstacles to the march of the PAC.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: There must today be certain decisions or certain hopes of the PAC that doesn't come into fruition because they are outvoted or for some reason it doesn't materialise, correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: That is because at times because other parties think differently, correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: That being the case, are you going to go around deciding that because a person belonging to a particular political party doesn't agree with the PAC, action must be taken against such a person or you able to accept that other people are entitled to have different views?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: As the PAC organisation used to be a liberation organisation and now it's becoming a political party, as much as I accept the present situation of the PAC and agree with each and every documentation, I agree with each and everything that satisfies me and my PAC, I support everything that is in line with PAC, but anything that is going against PAC I'll never support it.

CHAIRPERSON: Now will you do anything about everything that goes against the PAC, such as attacking other people?  That's what I'm asking.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Will you please repeat the question, I have a problem with interpretation.

CHAIRPERSON: You say you will never support anything that goes against the policy of the PAC, correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And I think you're entitled to do so, not to support anything that goes against it.  What I'm asking, will you attack anybody who does not support the PAC?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is that particular person's democratic right, I don't have the right to stop him from doing so.  Even if a person wants to leave PAC and introduce his own organisation as long as that particular person is not going to disturb PAC movements, I accept that.

CHAIRPERSON: But in losing your vote it will also disturb the PAC's march to what it considers the ultimate type of government, not so?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: If the PAC loses votes what ..?  Will you please repeat the question?

CHAIRPERSON: If the PAC is in a position where it loses a policy vote against opposition in parliament it will in effect stop the PAC's march towards what people thinks is the ultimate government, are you going to attack people for voting against the PAC or can you live with that now in the New South Africa?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: A person who does not vote for PAC, that's that person's democratic right.  If PAC is losing the vote it will always be the opposition party and I will always support it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi have you got any more questions?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I've got no more questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SANDI

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, thank you, I don't have any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

UNKNOWN: Before this incident was Mr Duma's house burnt down?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was burnt down during this incident.

UNKNOWN: Why was it burnt down and by whom?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was burnt by the members of SANCO and COSAS members and ANC because Mr Duma was a member of PAC, that was the only reason.

UNKNOWN: That week before this incident - this incident happened on a Saturday night or Sunday night, can you remember?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: If I'm not mistaken I think Mr Duma's house was burnt down on a Sunday morning, if I'm not mistaken.

UNKNOWN: Ja, but this incident now, the attack on August, was that a Saturday or a Sunday?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was on a Saturday because the attacks on our people was going on and we were expelled from school by COSAS and these comrades were perpetrators.  That was already happening at the time, we were expelled from the school because COSAS was against PASO.  They tried to change the community school into something else, that is where the conflict started.  This conflict started between the PASO and the COSAS, the PASO that I was the organiser and the people from the outside interfered with pupils and they burnt down the houses of the PAC members.

UNKNOWN: Yes I understand there was a conflict between the ANC and the PAC or it started with the conflict with PASO and COSAS and then it spilt over into the community, is that correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Right now the attack on Mr August when you hit him with the pick handle, was that on a Saturday or a Sunday?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was on a Saturday.

UNKNOWN: Did you have a regional meeting of the PAC during that week before the Saturday?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No what we were doing, everything that was being done by these other comrades and the opposition party, we used to report it to the office and tell them that these people are attacking us and we were seeking for solutions.  The answer was if they attack us we are supposed to protect ourselves, that's what we did.

UNKNOWN: Yes but that was on the 23rd of February, so it was a day or two before the accident that you had reported it to the regional office?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Which one?  Because that happened - the chairman's house was burned down and he reported the matter to the regional office and our expulsion from school before the teacher's house was burned down, we reported that.

UNKNOWN: Look at paragraph 10, there you say that you reported it to the regional officers and you contacted them for further advice and the date was the 23rd of February 1993, so it's you yourself that said it.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I was not sure about the date therefore I don't want us to concentrate on dates because the reason for me to mention those dates, when I was sentenced in Court it was said that Mr August's attack took place on the 25th therefore I was trying to match the dates with the incident because I was not sure.  I was not recording the dates of the incidents, therefore I was trying to remember them with Mr Lucky August's attack because he was not the first victim, his incident was not the first incident, a lot of things were done by his comrades.