Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

CHARLES ALFRED ZEELIE: A chair from Colonel Van Niekerk's office, that's a large, heavy chair, wooden chair, it was placed in the passage.   Bopape was told to take off his shirt and shoes, and he was then told to sit on the chair.   His arms were tied to an arm support on the chair with velcro strips and his ankles were also tied with velcro strips at the bottom side, the legs of the chair.   Bopape was then shocked by Du Preez and Engelbrecht with the shock device, by taking the cords of the shock device, which was soaked in water and then placed on Bopape, it was moved over his body and after approximately the third time that the device was turned, I saw that Bopape's head fell forward.   I realised that there was a problem, as well as the other members.  Colonel Van Niekerk said immediately that the person had to be untied.   The person was then taken from the chair and he was laid down on the floor.   Sergeant Du Preez did mouth to mouth resuscitation on the person, without any success.   I then realised that Bopape was dead, and that created a problem situation in the group.   In the group we discussed the problem and Colonel Van Niekerk said then that he would contact General Erasmus and that he would discuss the problem with him.   After Colonel Van Niekerk contacted General Erasmus by telephone, Van Niekerk informed us that he had to go and see General Erasmus at his home.   After some time, Colonel Van Niekerk returned and told us that General Erasmus would first go through to Pretoria, that was General Erasmus, that he would go through to Pretoria and that he would return later to John Vorster Square, and it happened later on, General Du Toit also arrived at the office.   Myself and Colonel Van Niekerk, we spoke to Erasmus and Du Toit in Erasmus's office, and General Erasmus then told us that the person, Bopape, had to be transported to the Eastern Transvaal where there would be disposed of his body, and that a mock escape in the Eastern Transvaal had to be planned.   After General Erasmus and Du Toit had left the site, Sergeant Du Preez went to buy black plastic bags.   On his return, Bopape was placed in a foetal position and the plastic bags were pulled over the body from the top and the bottom side.   Bopape was then, and I can't precisely say who carried him, but he was carried in a blanket that was thrown over his body - I left out a specific part - after Security Branch had died and Colonel Van Niekerk had left to General Du Toit's house, Bopape's body was placed in Engelbrecht's office and a blanket was thrown over him.   This same blanket was then used to carry Bopape to the basement of the Security Branch, where his body was placed in my vehicle's boot.   Colonel Van Niekerk and myself and Warrant Officer Mostert went in my vehicle to Bronkhorstspruit and we were followed by Constable Engelbrecht and Sergeant Du Preez in a second vehicle.   On the highway at Bronkhorstspruit, next to the road, we got two vehicles from the Eastern Transvaal.   In the vehicles were Brigadier Visser and Captain Van Loggerenberg.   I knew both of the members.   Colonel Van Niekerk spoke to Brigadier Visser, after which we moved over the... (tape ends)
	...I pulled my vehicle's boot next to the boot of the vehicle of, Van Loggerenberg's vehicle, with his boot facing my vehicle's boot.   Captain Van Loggerenberg and myself then transferred the body of Mr Bopape, which was still in the black bags, to the other vehicle's boot, that was the vehicle of Captain Van Loggerenberg. 	After this, we then returned to Johannesburg.   Once again Captain Van Niekerk and Warrant Officer Mostert and myself were in my vehicle and the vehicle in which Engelbrecht and Du Preez, their vehicle followed us back.   Underway, Colonel Van Niekerk told me that Brigadier Visser told him that the escape should not take place in the Eastern Transvaal and that we had to look after our own problems, and that is why we then returned to John Vorster Square.   Before we arrived at John Vorster Square, we stopped at a shop where we bought food, after which we went to John Vorster Square and we planned the mock escape and also discussed it.   We then decided that the escape should take place at De Deur.   We decided that I would act as Mr Bopape.   The shoes of Bopape were at that stage still in Engelbrecht's office, and it was the ideal opportunity to be used with the mock escape, me putting on the shoes and to leave a scent.   We then departed to De Deer.   At that stage it was myself, Colonel Van Niekerk, Constable Engelbrecht and Warrant Officer Mostert.   I sat at the left back side of the vehicle, that is how we decided where Bopape would sit.   Along the way we stopped and Sergeant Du Preez followed in a second vehicle.  The arrangement was that I would escape in Bopape's shoes.  I would run through a maize field and I would run through that and at another point Du Preez would then pick me up and take me back to John Vorster.   The reason why I acted as Bopape was the fact that I was not involved with the interrogation, or that I was supposed to be involved there, as well as Sergeant Du Preez was also not supposed to be involved with the normal investigation.   Constable Engelbrecht and Warrant Officer Mostert, who had been involved, with Colonel Van Niekerk, who was in command of the investigation, they would then be involved with the mock escape that should now appear to be real.   The right back tyre of the vehicle was slashed by me with a knife.   The vehicle's tyre was then changed by Mostert and Engelbrecht, where I was sitting at the left back side of the vehicle.  The one side of cuffs on my feet, was on my one foot, the other side was loose.   Warrant Officer Mostert's jacket was over the left front seat of the vehicle, and in his left pocket, if I can remember correctly, were the keys for the hand and feet cuffs.   I had a set of loose handcuffs that was issued to Mostert, I also had that with me.   I jumped out of the vehicle, I ran along the road and went into this maize field, with the one side of this cuff around my ankle and the other part in my hand, and that is how I ran.   I just want to mention that these cuffs that we used, the shackles were the long ones.   After I ran about 300 metres into this maize field, I sat down and then I also loosened this chain on my one leg.   I can also just mention that from the vehicle up to that point where I sat down, I at times let the one part of the foot chain fall so that it would appear, or that it would in fact make marks as I was running.   Where I sat, I took off these chains and I then took the handcuffs as well as these feet chains and I left them there, and then I ran further through this maize field up to the other side of the road, which then joined at a black township.   Sergeant Du Preez picked me up.   I took off the shoes, Bopape's shoes, and then my shoes, which were in Sergeant Du Preez's vehicle, and I put my own shoes on.  Sergeant Du Preez took me to John Vorster, where I got into my vehicle and departed to my home.

UNKNOWN: Mr Zeelie, the food that was bought, what was, why was it bought?

CHARLES ALFRED ZEELIE: It was so that there could be receipts that an investigation went out.

UNKNOWN: And the velcro strips that you referred to, what was the reason for that?

CHARLES ALFRED ZEELIE: I also did a Murder and Robbery course while I was at the Security Branch, and at the course I got these velcro strips from one of the members of Murder and Robbery, and this person told me that these strips were, they were items to be used during application of shock treatment, because these strips are wide and they do not leave any marks on a body during the shock treatment.   He also mentioned to me that these strips were available at the Logistic Department of the quartermaster.    What the specific aim of the strips were was not mentioned to me.