Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-07-28

MS LOCKHAT: The next amnesty applicant is Mr Cornelius Botha.

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: (sworn states)

MR MALAN: You may be seated.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Van der Walt?

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Botha, you are applying for amnesty and your application can be found in Volume 1, from page 249 to page 251, that would be the official amnesty application form and the content is in page 252, the motivation and political background, from page 256 to 263, do you confirm the content thereof?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: That is correct, yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: During the incident which took place on the 12th of June 1988 in Swaziland, where were you stationed at that time?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: At Piet Retief Security Branch.

MS VAN DER WALT: How long were you stationed there?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: From 1981 to 1994.

MS VAN DER WALT: Under whose command were you?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Warrant Officer Freek Pienaar.

MS VAN DER WALT: Piet Retief was part of which region?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: It was in the Eastern Transvaal region, below Ermelo.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were involved in the incident regarding Mr Ras, Tait and Van Dyk gave evidence during which a person was shot dead in Swaziland, is that correct?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: In paragraph 1, on page 252 you state that you received instructions to arrest the persons who were assisting the MK members in infiltrating the RSA?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Can you explain that please?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Chairperson, on that day we were requested or at least we received the instruction from Colonel Van Dyk, and because I worked under Freek Pienaar, to cross the border and to then attempt to arrest those persons who were going to infiltrate the RSA and to eliminate them, to shoot them.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was there a specific reason why they requested you to accompany?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Chairperson, I knew the area and I also knew where we would be able to leave the vehicle on the RSA side of the border, at a point where it would be most easy to enter.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know where these persons were going to cross the border?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes, that is correct, I knew.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did you know and where would they cross the border?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: The place was indicated to me by Warrant Officer Pienaar when he indicated to the persons who had to pick up as a result of the information that we received.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was this at a normal border post or where was it?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: It was an illegal crossing, it was over the border fence.

MS VAN DER WALT: This specific place, was it a singular place where persons had crossed, or was it more frequently used?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: This was the first time that I recall somebody crossing the border at that point.

MS VAN DER WALT: You state in the second paragraph that you and Captain Paul van Dyk and Martiens Ras entered Swaziland, you do not state anything about Mr Tait, is there any reason for that?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Chairperson, I wasn't very familiar with all the members from C1 and during the time when I made the statement, I could not recall what the fourth person's name was.

MS VAN DER WALT: You also state and this is in paragraph 2, that there was an attempt to arrest the persons, do you wish to explain that?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes Chairperson, there wasn't an actual attempt, I meant it more in the sense that we would have wanted to make an attempt to arrest these persons.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was your instruction when you arrived there at the scene?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: At the scene it was dark and if I describe the scene, it would be after we took up positions.

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: The instruction there was that we would shoot when they arrived because arrest was completely out of the question.  There would be no opportunity for an arrest, that was too dangerous.

MS VAN DER WALT: Under whose instruction did you act there at the scene?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Under Warrant Officer Van Dyk.

MS VAN DER WALT: What took place?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: We took up positions, we lay down and waited for quite a while for these persons and we heard them returning, we could hear them speaking, they moved around the vehicle.  I had a light which I had to switch on as soon as the shooting commenced and for a moment, the persons were quiet and then the shooting ensued.  I, myself, am not certain whether the shooting originated from our side or from the other side, I just know that the shooting commenced, it began and everybody started shooting.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you do after that?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Shortly after the shooting, I switched on the light, we moved closer, I looked for the other person, whether we could see him.  Next to the car was a deceased person who lay there.  I shot the petrol tank of the vehicle to pieces and to tell the truth, I heard Mr Ras' evidence now, I thought that I was the one who set the vehicle alight, but it was him.  It may be that he had matches and approached the vehicle and set it alight with the matches.

MS VAN DER WALT: Because you state in paragraph 3 that you set the vehicle alight, is that the way you recall it?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes, that is how I recalled it.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you hear when the persons arrived there at the scene when you lay there, before the persons were taken over the border, whether any firearms were cocked as the vehicle stopped there?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes, that is correct.  My evidence differs from the others in that regard, but I heard four firearms being cocked, I counted them specifically.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you have a good knowledge of firearms, can you tell the Committee what knowledge of firearms you have and what enabled you to determine this?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: I cannot say that these were AK's, we just assumed that they were AK47's, but the gun that was being cocked was definitely a gun, I knew that there were five guns.  They were successively cocked, not simultaneously.

MS VAN DER WALT: And there is a definite difference between a gun and the usual hand firearm, one could hear the difference when a firearm is being cocked?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: At that distance I could hear that it was definitely a firearm.

ADV GCABASHE: Could I just get a bit of clarity, the Interpreter said that I knew that there were five firearms and yet, just a few minutes before that, what I heard was that four firearms had been cocked.  I am not sure if we are talking of four or five now?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Yes Chairperson, I know the others said that they heard four, but when I counted, I counted five.  It may be that I may be incorrect, but I recall it as such.

ADV GCABASHE: You have to take me along with you, you heard four being cocked, you counted five.  When did you count the five?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: When they were being cocked.

ADV GCABASHE: You heard five being cocked?

CHAIRPERSON: I had the same note as Adv Gcabashe, that it was first of all mentioned four and then five, but it seems that it was five that you heard?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Five that I counted being cocked, yes.

INTERPRETER: I beg your pardon Chairperson, it was actually my mistake, I misheard the applicant, I thought it was four initially.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS VAN DER WALT: And after the incident, you said that you switched on a light, were any firearms found next to the vehicle?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: Next to the person who had been shot dead, there was a firearm, a Makarov which lay next to him.

MS VAN DER WALT: And did you then depart from the scene?

CORNELIUS JOHANNES BOTHA: After the vehicle had been set alight, we left the scene.