Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I had a 3.8 special.

MR PRIOR: And did you use it on that occasion?  Did you fire any shots at this vehicle?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No, I did not use it.

MR PRIOR: Why not?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Comrade Dolo was the commander of the unit and he ordered that we should not shoot.  I followed an order, I did not shoot.

MR PRIOR: Was he the only person who shot on that occasion?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: I want to suggest something to you.  If you had managed to stop that vehicle, in other words caused it to come to a standstill, was the 3.8 used to then execute or finally shoot the people, occupants?  In other words the coup de grace?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Repeat your question please?

MR PRIOR: I want to suggest something to you because it seems to have happened in the application that we will hear later on, that the R4 would be used to shoot at the vehicle while it was moving, if that was then brought to a standstill by that shooting, the 3.8's in other words the handguns would be then used to finish off the occupants of the vehicle?  Was that the part of the plan?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it was part of the plan but an order was issued out and I was a soldier just following the orders.  I would not do anything that was not ordered by my commander.

MR PRIOR: But you knew that while you were standing on the road waiting for a vehicle to approach that you would then go and finish off the occupants with your handgun?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Please elaborate on your question sir?

MR PRIOR: I am trying to understand the role that you were to play there because it seems that you were just standing there, you did absolutely nothing.  Was your role to be the following - if the vehicle had been brought to a standstill by, after it had been shot at with the R4 rifle, your job was then to go and finish off the occupants with your handgun?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I was deployed in the assault group that's correct, I was going to attack that car, the occupants of the car.

MR PRIOR: Are you saying you would have only have attacked once orders had been given you to do specific things or did you know beforehand what your role was to be or your task was to be?  Is that clear to you?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I was deployed and I had to wait for an order from my commander.  If he said shoot I would have shot.

MR PRIOR: Look at bundle B.  These are photographs, photograph 1, 2, 3 and 4 which were taken on the 27th May 1995 during a pointing out that you did, do you agree that that is the spot where the ambush took place?  If you look at photographs 2, 3 and 4 where you are pointing out certain things, are those the positions that your units were in during the ambush?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Did you notice who the occupants of the vehicle were at the time when the ambush commenced?

CHAIRPERSON: It's a very difficult question Mr Prior.  When did the ambush commence in your opinion, when the man signalled?

MR PRIOR: Well once the shooting started, maybe I should be more specific, once the shooting started were you able to see who the occupants were?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I realised that some of the occupants were the Boers.  After the car had passed Comrade Dolo issued out an order and we realised that there was an African in that car.

MR PRIOR: When you talk about a car was it a pickup, a bakkie?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: It was a bakkie.

MR PRIOR: Was there anyone on the back of the bakkie that you remember?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, there was someone.

MR PRIOR: And who was he, do you know who he was?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No.

MR PRIOR: Was it an African person?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I explained already that I do not remember whether it was an African or not but I do remember there was a person at the back of the bakkie.

MR PRIOR: How did you get to that position, that is at the Mayaphuti Bridge, on that morning?  How did you arrive there?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: An African man, Nopise, drove us.

MR PRIOR: And after the attack where did you go?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: We went to Mangeneni's place.

MR PRIOR: And thereafter?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: In the afternoon we went back to our base at Jozannashoek.

MR PRIOR: I want to refer to page 4 of the bundle, that is the annexure to your amnesty application.  According to your list, the only two matters where your two co-applicant Mr Dolo says he was involved was the Mayaphuti Bridge, that's the first one you list and the Lady Grey ambush, do you confirm that?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes I confirm that.

MR PRIOR: When you mention the Sterkspruit Hotel attack, the Kenny that you refer to there, who are you referring to?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I am referring to Kenny Mudibula.

MR PRIOR: I want to refer you to page 34 of the bundle, it's an English translation of the Sotho handwriting or the statement from page 17 to 31.  Obviously you've been through this with your attorney?  Just for your comment, under Sterkspruit Hotel, Moleko Hotel, you said "I was myself, Kleintjie, T.J. Mokala, Kenny Peledolo, Jabu Dr Zamzam - I don't know his real names - and Tembu Okapi."

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chairman, I'm not sure whether these statements have since been cancelled as part of a bundle or not because ...[inaudible] I have has a stripe right across.

MR PRIOR: Yes that's so, it doesn't make it any less a document, it was simply crossed through for the purposes of this application.

MR MTHEMBU: But now if they have been cancelled would it be fair to ask the witness all those issues, it didn't form part of this bundle.

CHAIRPERSON: But the document has been available at other hearings hasn't it, where they hadn't been crossed out.  Everything has been crossed out on this one except what is relevant to the Zastron Bridge incident.

MR MTHEMBU: Correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: That is merely to confirm that that is what we should read now.  But now counsel is cross-examining on other matters.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I'll leave it, I'll raise it at a different time because that other matter is coming up again.

CHAIRPERSON: Well if it is going to be raised surely you should raise it with the witness now?  That he said it not once but three times as I think?

MR PRIOR: But I'll raise it, he can ponder it, he can formulate an answer and give it to us because this matter, the Lady Grey matter, is going to be put on the role again Mr Chairman, it's been adjourned to a date to be arranged so obviously that matter will be raised again at that stage.
I've no further questions.   Any re-examination?

MR MTHEMBU: None Mr Chair, thank you.

MR PRIOR: Just one thing, according to the evidence of Mr Dolo you had no knowledge of this operation until you got there to the scene where this attack was going to happen, is that right?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: So how did you know the orders for this operation were issued by Mr Mphahlele?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Can you repeat your question please.

MR PRIOR: How did you know then if you had no prior knowledge of this operation until you got there, how did you know that the orders were issued by Mphahlele?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Mr Mphahlele was the director of operations and I knew that all the operations were issued out by him even though we had other commanders working under him.

MR PRIOR: So was this just an assumption on you part or did you have direct knowledge of that?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: It was my knowledge of the things.

MR PRIOR: Well how did you acquire that knowledge, who spoke to you, who told you, did you speak to Mphahlele yourself, how did you personally acquire that knowledge?