Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

MR NTANUNU COMMITTEE: Yes, yes, Honourable Chair, with respect.
	Honourable Chair and Honourable Members of the Amnesty Committee, I would move and request the Honourable Amnesty Committee to grant the application for the two applicants.
	It is our full submission with respect, that the requirements of the Act in question have been in fact complied with.  More particularly we submit that the operation and the bombing of the casino in question was in fact done with a political objective, which is in fact the requirement of the Act in question.  
	We also further submit with respect, Honourable Chair and Members, that the two applicants have in fact made a full, full disclosure of the events that took place on the day in question.  I do not think whatsoever that there is anybody who can in fact doubt that.  Much as I do not think that there is anybody who can doubt the political objectivity of the whole situation.  
	I many mention, Honourable Chair and Honourable Members of the Panel, that the applicants themselves have indicated to me personally that they are very, very much happy to be here today and they have been some problems with them because we had held the view that because of the fact that they've already been convicted and sentenced for this act, that then there was no need to appear and move the applications in terms of this Section 18, but when we discussed the matter we seemed to agree that this should be all, or added and this should be in fact a question of reconciliation and they are very, very glad to have been given the opportunity of actually seeing the relatives of the victims in question, to whom they have said before this Honourable Panel that they did not even know them, they did not know who were to be injured over there, but they are happy now to see them and they've even gone out of their way and also asked for pardon and also asked them to understand the circumstances that prevailed during those years and the whole thing and which I think has come from the counsels for the victims is very, very much understandable to them.
	All in all, Honourable Chair and Honourable Members, our submission with respect is that we have complied with the provisions of the Act insofar as the requirements for the granting of applications are concerned, and we accordingly pray that the applications be granted.  Thank you very much, Honourable Chair, thank you very much, Honourable Members.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Ntanunu.  Mr Jaco, any submissions?

MR JACO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I have no further submissions.
NO SUBMISSIONS BY MR JACO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jaco, what was the position of your client, was he just a patrol of the casino at the time or what?  What was his position, the late Mr Ntakana?  Was he a patron, a customer, what was his position?

MR JACO: He was just a visitor, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And was he killed in the explosion?

MR JACO: Yes, he was killed in the explosion.  ...(indistinct) Ntakana, a small child of 12 years, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I see, no I've misunderstood.  And he was visiting the casino you say, at the time?

MR JACO: He was visiting the casino.  He was from the local vicinity and they used to visit the casino as small or young boys.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Wild, have you got any submissions?

MS WILD COMMITTEE: Yes, thank you, Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee.  The position with regard to Ms Hudson and her sister is as follows:  They do not oppose the granting of amnesty, nor do they as such consent to it,
because that obviously falls within the prerogative of the Committee.  
	Their view is that they, well particularly Ms Jessie Hudson came to oppose this matter on the basis that on the face of it she was not satisfied that the statement simply on a piece of paper, that there was a political objective and she also wished to satisfy herself concerning the sincerity of the applicants and their way of being and she has satisfied herself about that, which is why she has been prepared, having heard them and listened to them, to in fact forgive them on the basis that they are being sincere, that they've come here in a genuine attempt to reconcile with the families of the victims.  
	So on that basis then, the application for amnesty is not opposed and having been satisfied with the sincerity of the applicants, as I've said, Ms Hudson has not difficulty, well she has difficulty, but she has no wish to withhold forgiveness from them, she wishes to forgive them, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you clients sisters, the daughters of the deceased?

MS WILD: Mr Chairman, my client is Ms Jessie Hudson, but her sister is present and they were both daughters of the deceased, who died as a result of very severe injuries sustained in the explosion.  He was a visitor to the Wild Coast Hotel at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: And what is the name of her sister?

MS WILD: It's Tanya Hudson, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Wild.

MS WILD: ...(indistinct) just on her behalf, I would just like to thank the Committee and the Members of the Committee and the Institution of the Committee for permitting her to be present to also have the opportunity to see the applicants and to hear them, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that is noted.  Ms Patel, have you got any submissions?

MS PATEL COMMITTEE: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, I wish to state that my client's position as I set it out at the commencement of the hearing remains.  I accordingly have no further submissions, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: And we had gathered from what you had put to the applicants, that it is Mrs Dlamini's late son who was the caretaker at the hotel complex?

MS PATEL: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Patel.  Mr Ntanunu, I assume that you've got no further submissions?

MR NTANUNU: No further submissions, Honourable Chair, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much.  Ms Patel, can you just get us Mrs Dlamini's full names.

MS PATEL: It's Lillian, Chairperson: L-I-L-L-I-A-N.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We want to take just a brief to consider the matter and to formulate a decision.  We will reconvene in a very short while.  We will be ready to deliver our decision in this matter, so we will stand down for a short while and we will indicate to you when we are ready.

MS WILD: Mr Chairman, could I just ask something?  Would it be possible please for us to be excused from the hearing because we come from Durban and we to.  We will discover the outcome from your facilitators, if that would suite you.