Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-12

MR DEHAL: Except that Mr Davidson owned the place.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Thank you Chair, if you'll bear with me?
	Sorry, as an ardent surfer, you must have surfed on the Durban surfs as well in the '86's?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In the 80?

MR DEHAL: '86?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Ja, in the early '80s.

MR DEHAL: Do you recall at the time that - sorry, firstly I presume you would have surfed on the Marine Parade directly in front of say Why Not or in that vicinity.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Mostly down South Beach and in the early '70's I surfed in the first or second Gunston 500.

MR DEHAL: Now would you agree that in all those areas you spoke of, no non-whites were allowed at the time to surf in those areas?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In the early '80's?

MR DEHAL: Yes.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I'm not aware of that, I just didn't think they - I didn't think they were educated into surfing, surfing wasn't their natural sport.

MR DEHAL: No, we're talking about ...(intervention)

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I'm talking about surfing on a surfboard, I'm not talking about swimming.

MR DEHAL: I'm talking about the general usage of the beach in the area, the sea in the area that you surfed.  Did you not see the signs on the outside on the shore at the beach saying no blacks, no dogs allowed?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In 1986?

MR DEHAL: Yes.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No I think maybe Morris Fin cut the board down, I'm not sure.

MR DEHAL: Okay, please.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dehal?

MR DEHAL: Thank you Chair.  So you recall these signs, you were aware of them but you were also aware of Mr Fin having then cut them all off?

CHAIRPERSON: What do we need the evidence from Mr Jeffers about whether he saw signs or not, Mr Dehal, what are you trying to get at?

MR DEHAL: Nothing more than the fact that I'm preparing for argument at the end relative to his absence of knowledge on the political scenario, the political situation in this country.

JUDGE PILLAY: Well, if you're trying to establish that apartheid existed you can take it for granted, we accept that it did.

MR DEHAL: I accept that, my difficulty is in regard to this witnesses knowledge or ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: It's not going to take us further, one way or the other.  We know apartheid existed.

CHAIRPERSON: And this witness hasn't come to say that he was politically aware, made any suggestion of that at all.

MR DEHAL: Thank you Chair.
	Did you know a Mr Erasmus or a Mr Nel or a Mr Engelbrecht?

CHAIRPERSON: If you can be a little bit more specific because we don't now want to hear about a whole lot of Mr Nels, Erasmuses and Engelbrechts who worked at Toyota or who were surfers, which if you could just home in a little bit?

MR DEHAL: Thanks Chair, I was just about to complete that.
	These are three men who featured as state witnesses in the earlier trial of Robert McBride, they claimed that they had been present at the Why Not bar on that night.  Did you know of them?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I can't recall those names at all.

MR DEHAL: Did you ever do any service in the police force?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No, I did not.

MR DEHAL: Not ever?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Never.

JUDGE PILLAY: Sorry, he didn't do service, he did surfing.

MR DEHAL: Thank you Chair, that is all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DEHAL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Prior do you - sorry, Ms Kooverjee, I omitted to ask you, do you have any questions you'd like to put?

MS KOOVERJEE: No questions, thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS KOOVERJEE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, any questions you'd like to put?

ADV PRIOR: I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Richard, do you have any re-examination?

MR RICHARD: No more than three or five questions, I haven't counted them.
	How old are you now?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: 46.

MR RICHARD: In which year were you born?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: 1953.

MR RICHARD: You describe bombs going off at the time.  What effect did they have on you?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In what respect.

MR RICHARD: We know that he was a victim of a bomb blast and he had to undergo medical treatment.

MR RICHARD: No, there were other bombs besides the particular one.  Did the fact that the Chamberlain bomb go off near you effect your workplace, have an effect on your mind or your perception of life?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No really, it just - we got the day off work because they could put the factory lights back on.

MR RICHARD: When you say work colleagues came with you, what work colleagues?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Guys at work.  Friends of mine from work.

MR RICHARD: What sort of, did they - so that means there was no special method of selection of them or anything else?  No differences between them in race or clothes?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No difference

MR RICHARD: Where did they come with you to?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Sometimes to my flat.

MR RICHARD: Now do you still know Carl Haddon?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I still know him yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The question was, sorry it seems like they didn't hear, do you still know Carl Haddon or Hayden, the name mentioned as being one of his friends.

MR RICHARD: It's spelt H-A-Y-D-E-N.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it Hayden, thank you Mr Richard, I had it down as Hadden.

MR RICHARD: Hayden.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I think Haddon is more correct, H-A-D-D.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you still know him Mr Jeffers?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I still know him, yes.

MR RICHARD: Why can't he come to these hearings?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Because he phoned me a couple of weeks ago, he's been unemployed for some time and he had to go for - what do you call it when you go to work on a Monday - not an interview, an induction and he didn't think that if couldn't ask for time off because it was a shut down and the work would only last for about three weeks.

MR RICHARD: Thank you, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RICHARD

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any questions Advocate Sigodi?

ADV SIGODI: No questions, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Judge Pillay?  Mr Jeffers, I've just got one.  On that night in question the 14th June you say you walked there, we've heard that it was drizzling, is that correct?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You also said that at that time of the night that time of the week there was usually a lot of people around.  Would the drizzle have an effect on that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It was a very light drizzle at the time and as far as I'm concerned I don't think it would have an effect on that.  I walked there so it wasn't a problem.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Any questions arising?  Thank you Mr Jeffers, that concludes your evidence.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: I see now that it's almost half past four, I don't know if you wish to carry on seeing we lost so much time or I don't know if it's possible logistically for people who have to be here or elsewhere?  We're prepared to carry on, I don't know it would be ...(intervention)

MR BERGER: Mr Chairman, may we just establish how many more witnesses or presentations are going to happen?

MR RICHARD: I have one more particular witness that is relevant to the fact of the matter.  A bar person who worked at the hotel at the time.  I can't see from where I sit whether she's still here.

CHAIRPERSON: Will it be convenient to proceed or not?

MR BERGER: It would be convenient to proceed.

MR RICHARD: I have no difficulty in proceeding.  May I call her?   Our next witness is Ms Kearney as she also will take the oath.

HELEN BLOSSOM KEARNEY: (sworn states)

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  Ms Kearney, in and during 1986 where did you live and work?

HELEN BLOSSOM KEARNEY: I lived in the Parade Hotel itself, on the second floor.

MR RICHARD: And for how long did you live there?

HELEN BLOSSOM KEARNEY: Two years.

MR RICHARD: Now where did you work?

HELEN BLOSSOM KEARNEY: At the Parade Hotel.