Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-05

MR DEHAL: Will you please then deal with the content of paragraph 7?
MR McBRIDE
	"Another incident where the police were unaware of my involvement was an attack on the water pipe near the Lion Park turn off on the road to Pietermaritzburg, just off the N3.  According to my knowledge, the limpet mine caused damage to the (this should read) pipe, resulting in water leaking out, but other than that, there were no injuries or death to anybody.  I am unsure of the exact date on which this occurred, but it would probably have been around January or February.  We were under the impression that the pipe was an oil pipe which pumps oil and fuel to the Reef.  However, subsequently we found out that it was not an oil pipe, but a water pipe."
	I must just add here as I remember certain things, we were instructed at some stage to reconnoitre the area between Durban and Pietermaritzburg to find this oil pipe.  It was part of that instructions received from the Commander, to find an oil pipe.
"This is also a count I was not convicted of, nor charged of.  I make this application for amnesty mainly in the interests of full disclosure and out of my own desire."

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Mr McBride, we then continue onto the second Chamberlain Road Osterville substation explosion, which took place on the 21st of March 1986, where four limpet mines were used.  This is dealt with in bundle A1 on page 8 as item 12, do you see that?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: If I may just deal with item 11 and item 10, you will see that item 10 has as the applicants Mr Ismail and not yourself, item 11 as Mr Ismail and not yourself, so those two incidents don't relate to you, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Now, we go to item 12 on page 8, this would be the second Chamberlain Road incident?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: You say that this operation is similar to the other operations of disrupting the power grid, economic sabotage and armed propaganda?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR DEHAL: You say you were convicted of this operation and you were sentenced to a number of years of imprisonment for it?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes.  Just to add this operation was also add to frustrate the enemy in that it was the second time that this substation had been hit.   They had just repaired and imported very expensive transformers and refitted them into the substation, and we hit it for the second time.
"The intention of this operation was also to commemorate Sharpeville Day.  As far as I am aware, there were no injuries or deceased as a result of this operation."

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  I take you now to the handgrenade attack on the school principal, Leaf's house, that is an aspect you deal with in paragraph 9.  Is it item 13 on page 8 of bundle A1?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: And again here there were no persons injured and there were no deceased persons?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: You apply for amnesty on this count, this incident, on page 105 of the bundle as per sub-paragraph (e)?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: You say that this is an incident that took place in the first half of 1986 as per your application for amnesty?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR DEHAL: But I see in Exhibit G you deal with it as being on the 8th of April 1986, is that a date that you have taken from A1, page 8?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Carry on.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I am not sure where I - I probably got the date from one of the records, where it is mentioned, I cannot remember where I got it from.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.   Now, will you please deal with the content of this paragraph?
MR McBRIDE
	"In this operation, I was unaware of the target, however my understanding is that Mr Leaf was also a senior member of the Labour Party in the area."
The Labour Party - I am just indicating what I remember now, some of the discussions going on then - had supported the state of emergency in some parts of the country and had supported cross-border raids at this stage.  He was also a police reservist.  Of course as we know the Labour Party participated in the discredited tricameral system also.  
"Whilst I personally did not know the target of the house, in terms of the guidelines of the ANC and the policy at that stage, it would have been an appropriate, legitimate target."

MR DEHAL: And then thereafter I see you repeat that the Labour Party supported the state of emergency and the cross-border raids?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: This is an incident that you personally did not participate in?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, I did not participate in this incident.  Just to add, I don't think that I was charged with this particular incident also.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  Well, it falls under page 105 of your amnesty application, as sub-paragraph (e) and this falls within the realm of the counts that you were not charged with, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  Okay, then you say in (ii) that your involvement in this incident is that you trained and supplied Vincent Churchill James with handgrenades for such  types of operations, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Will you continue?
MR McBRIDE
"This operation was also intended as part of arming the masses and as an operation whereby collaborators or people viewed by us as collaborators, would be attacked.  This is also in terms of the explicit instructions that is specific instructions by Rashid to me, on the arming of the masses and for the attacks on collaborators."

MR DEHAL: May I just stop you there, I think it is common knowledge now that the Rashid that you refer to here, is Mr Ismail, the first applicant in this matter?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.
MR McBRIDE
	"However, other than the supply of weapons and the training of the people, I was not personally involved in this incident.  However, I was the Commander of this unit operating at that time, and therefore I accept full political and general responsibility for this operation."

CHAIRPERSON: Mr McBride after the operation when you learnt of the target, was it in Durban or whereabouts was, where did the handgrenade take place?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It took place in Wentworth, Durban, sir.

MR DEHAL: Mr McBride, you lived in Wentworth at the time, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: And Mr Leaf had lived in Wentworth at the time?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: You are aware of the place he lived in, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, I am aware of it.

MR DEHAL: You were also aware at the time that he was indeed a police reservist and a member of the Labour Party?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: But you say that you did not personally hand-pick Mr Leaf's house for the purpose of carrying out this operation, it was attended upon by other persons within the purview of your unit?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he the principal of Fairvale?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: No, he was not the principal of Fairvale.

MR DEHAL: That is, sorry that is Mr Klein.  Thank you.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Sorry, that is not Mr Klein, Mr Klein was the principal of another school which I never attended.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.   Is there anything else you wish to add on this grenade attack on the school principal, Leaf's house?