Human Rights Violation Hearings — Alexandra — 1996-10-28

MS MKHIZE: Thank you very much.  You made a choice to start off by talking about Philip.  In terms of your statement also your second son, you indicate that your second son, you don't give the name, his rights were violated again.  Can you tell us about your second son.

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: Who is that?

MS MKHIZE: There is also David. There is also Joseph.

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: I want to talk about David. The abducted one.

MS MKHIZE: According to your statement here on the 10th November your son David, aged 28, was seen leaving workplace Alfina Sports in Queue in the company of Constables Bothma and Kleyser.  And you are saying you have never heard of him again.
ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
6 MARCH

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: My son was working at Queue township.  At Alfina Sports, something like that, ja.   And I received a message that he is arrested.  When I went to Bramley police station I found that his name was not appearing anywhere.  So then when I wanted to know if he is arrested by the Bramley police why is he not appearing on the files.  I couldn't get a better answer so I had to go to his employer.   His employer Mr Corringen.  So he told me that my son appeared to be a sick man.  He went out for lunch time, coming back he came back having funny noises, rolling up and down. So he had to summon the Bramley police because they were next to his factory.  When the police came he told them that please take this man to a hospital because this man appears not be healthy.  That was the end when David was taken away.  So I asked this gentleman why did you choose to call the police, why couldn't you summon an ambulance.   So he said where he comes from he knows that police are working hand in hand with the hospital.  So he thought that by calling them they will take him straight to hospital.  More so he told them that he has got no charges, he is just to be taken to hospital.  So that was just that.

MS MKHIZE: Was David staying with you at that time?  Can you remember how was he functioning within the family before he disappeared.  Were there signs of disturbance or were there signs of behaviour which maybe you thought his behaviour was different from that of other people?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: No, David was not living with me, he had his own house but he had no problems.

MS MKHIZE: In your knowledge was David politically active?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: During those days even when the children were activists they wouldn't show you.  I can't say he was and I
ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 MARCH
can't say he was not.  I don't know.

MS MKHIZE: Well sometimes if something like this happens people start talking and speculating.  Did any of his friends start saying things to you which might be a clue as to what kind of life was he leading at that time?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: I don't believe his friends could know him better than I do because he goes to his house he usually came home first.  Before he goes to work he used to pass my place.  Because he had a son of seven years by that time.  He used to come and drop the boy at home.

MS MKHIZE: I see according to your statement the Legal Resource Centre tried to assist you to trace him.  If the police were called by the employer surely the legal representative from the Legal Resource Centre should have been able to get some information about the police who responded to his employer's call and was that helpful in any way?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: It took about five years, when I was going up and down at Elizabeth Building, until after five years I was told that now they are closing the file.  Maybe some other time we might get a clue and then we will go on again.  Because for the five years everything is fruitless.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you.  In your statement you also talk about your other son Joseph.  That is the third son.  Can you just tell us about ...

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: Joseph was shot at by unknown people.

MS MKHIZE: According to your statement that happened on the 18th June in 1993.  If you have any information surrounding this murder can you tell the Commission whatever you know about it.  How it happened, when it happened.  Did it happen in your presence or you were told by other people.
ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 MARCH

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: Since 1976 every 18th of every June my family and my friends usually come to my place just for a short prayer as a memory for my late Philip.  So the day of the 18th the late Joseph came on the 18th June 1993.  He came just for that occasion and so he decided not to go back to his house.  It was about something to ten we were about to watch international soccer so he decided to go outside to the loo before the match starts.  Then at the end of the day he never came back.  I heard people in the yard coming to tell me that Joseph is lying outside.  When I went outside just found brains scattered all over.  We heard the gunshots but as we are already climatised to this gun shooting we live next to something we call Double Up.  That is a short cut.  So everybody goes up and down and people come chasing each other, you know it is just a noisy area with gunshots nearly every day, we are used to that.  We don't even get scared any more.  Even when those gunshots were fired to Joseph we just took it that it is a usual thing until somebody came to the house and said come and see outside, Joseph is lying down outside.

MS MKHIZE: On your arrival did people indicate to you as to where did the person come from who had shot at him?  Were you given any details?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: Nobody knows.  Nobody said anything.  Nobody saw anybody.

MS MKHIZE: The people whom, in your statement, you have written a particular liberation movement as having been involved in his killing.  Are you maybe scared to mention them?  If you are it is okay not to but here in your statement his death is associated with a certain liberation movement.
ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 MARCH

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: I was asked was Joseph an activist.  Then I said Joseph was already in the other side of the area, he was at another place and by then he was in another party at his residential place.  So I don't know whether did he have any rival ... (nothing further on tape) ...

MS MKHIZE: Well I will try to ask you a few questions before I hand over to the Chair to clarify some of the things that you have said.  Regarding your first son, Philip, since in that case students had clearly indicated to you that he was shot at by the police and that also was confirmed by him and he was admitted at the hospital, did you lay a charge against the police following his death?

IRENE TUKIE MARCH: I was very, very, very sick.  Can you imagine in the morning you go away, before lunch time you get a report that your child is shot at.  All of a sudden I became very sick.  The police usually came to my house and say I must come and write a statement.  I asked them what statement am I to give because I was not available.  Let them do a statement and give it to me because they did their job, I was not available.

MS MKHIZE: And also here you mentioned that when your other son died, his son David who was seven then has been affected.  You say he had his schooling disrupted.  Can you tell us about what has happened to David now.