Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-18

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson, thanks.  Chairperson, it is almost common cause at this stage of the hearings that there are people who were held hostage after they were kidnapped from their places of stay by a group of police officials who were on rampage if I can put it that way on that day and in a way it is common cause, Chairperson, that these acts were committed in violation of human rights of those who fell victim of those actions and I want to express my sympathy to those who fell victim of that situation and would like to remind Chairperson that these are some of the manifestations of how ugly our past has been in South Africa.  Some people died.  We find situations where amnesty gets granted to people who killed others, people who committed gruesome acts against others, hence the amnesty proceedings, hence the amnesty laws.
	Now to come to the issues, Chairperson, I would ask this Committee to be reminded when looking into this particular matter of the history of our country in particular the Ciskei part of South Africa during 1994 prior to the election of the democratic government and in particular during those days when this matter was dealt with.  It is common cause, Chairperson, that during those times there was no free political activities going on in the Ciskei under the rule of Brigadier Gqozo then and Chairperson, we're dealing here with the applicants, the leaders of whom have shown this Committee that at that time they were members of the police and civil rights union which is abbreviated as Popcru.  It is common cause, Chairperson, that Popcru was a union which united police and prison warders and that union was an affiliate of the Congress of South African Trade Unions which Congress of South African Trade Unions was ally of the African National Congress hence the so called tripartite alliance and there was fierce struggle in the Ciskei between the alliance and Brigadier Gqozo then.  
	Chairperson, it must be remembered they have said, the applicants, that under those circumstances, as Popcru members, they were operating underground during that period.  That in itself, Chairperson, shows the lack of political activity going on in this region then.  It must be known Chairperson, at that period the whole country had free political activities, Popcru was operating overboard anywhere in the country except for Ciskei, hence during then, these members of Popcru it looks clandestinely hijacked a meeting of police officials.  It is understandable Chairperson, I'll submit, that those times it would not be possible for them to just declare loudly that they want Gqozo resign.  The circumstances as they were then did compel that meetings of this nature be hijacked for this purpose.  
	Now I would like us, Chairperson, it has been said by applicants that their political objective was to topple or to cause Brigadier Gqozo to step down hence what they did.  I would ask the Committee to consider, Chairperson, the provisions of Section 20, sub-section 3 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act and consider in particular, Chairperson, the criteria that I've set out there in determining as to whether an act is an act associated with a political objective as mentioned in that act.  Amongst the criteria to be considered there, Chairperson, is the proportionality of what was being done there and the motive.
	I submit Chairperson, that the kidnapping of senior police officials and holding them hostage is proportional to the intended objective which is said to have been the head of State then.  It is my submission, Sir, because those were the senior officers who were perceived by the applicants to be going hand in hand with the head of State.  We're dealing with perceptions, it must be noted, Chairperson, perceptions not necessarily facts.  It may well be notable fact that these senior police officers were going hand in hand with Brigadier Gqozo but perceptions were there and I submit those perceptions are reasonable in the circumstances and that being the case Chairperson, it is my considered submission and view, Sir, that the applicants have satisfied the requirements of Section 20, sub-section - I'm mean of Section 20 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act and I would recommend, Chairperson, that the Committee consider granting the applicants amnesty.  I would recommend further, Chairperson, that the Committee consider referring the victims of this particular act to the Reparation and Rehabilitation Committee as victims.  Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER ARGUMENT BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Do our records reflect the full details of all these victims?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson, they do appear in the bundle.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
	Yes Mr Obose, have you got any reply?

MR OBOSE: I have nothing, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that concludes this matter.  We will take time to consider the matter and to prepare our decision and once the decision is available we will notify the interested parties and furnish them with the decision once available.  We will therefore reserve the decision.
	Mr Mapoma, does that conclude the roll?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson, that concludes the roll for this sitting.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you very much.  Under those
circumstances we are going to adjourn the proceedings, but before I do so, can I express our thanks to all those people who have made it possible for us to have this hearing over the last few days in this venue.  It normally takes the efforts of quite a number of people to be able to have a hearing of this nature and we are always grateful for the assistance that is forthcoming.  To assist us in doing that, we have a large contingent of staff that normally assist us in doing so and we express our thanks to them as well as to the proprietors of this venue for making it possible for us to have our hearing here, for the security, the police, those members of the public who have come to listen to the proceedings, it is still an important aspect of our work that it should be held in public so that the public can share in what is forthcoming from these proceedings.  Our interpreters for their assistance, the caterers and to the legal representatives, Mr Nompozolo in his absence, we've already expressed our thanks to him.  Ms Collett and Mr Obose as well as Mr Mapoma.  We appreciate your assistance and we thank you for that and then finally to my colleagues on the panel with me, a word of thanks for your assistance.  We will now adjourn the proceedings.
HEARING ADJOURNS