Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-08

MR MONTATA: If I hear you well, belonging to ANC gave you strength and finally you profess your strength comes from your faith.  You refer and emotionally talk about Christ. What would you say the position or the role of the Churches here in the Vaal can be to bring about the peace and reconciliation?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: Without doubt I can say that the Church can play a very important role in bringing peace and stability as well as unity within the community. That is what I think can bring people together to be one.

MR MONTATA: My last question would be, how do you see your Vaal community drawing in the support and the cooperation of the White community of Vereeneging, Vanderbijl Park and the lot to form a peaceful community of the Vaal Triangle?
HRV/1049

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: /...
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MICHAEL MKHIWANE: This is one of the aspects that we are very thirsty for. That there should be no colour. We are a rainbow nation and we were all created by God. In front of God's eyes, we are just one.  We may have different colours as well as different languages but in front of our Creator we are just one.

MR MONTATA: Thank you. No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Professor Meiring, do you have any questions?
Ms Joyce Seroke?

MRS SEROKE: Mr Mkhiwane, you said you realised that you should fight the oppression by being part of the core of the Council and you further said that you are a member of the ANC. Now what I want you to clarify, did you ever get any support as well as the people did they support you that you can get into the council to fight from within?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: At that time, at the time when the ANC was banned by the Government so there was absolutely no way to come out, we used to operate underground and at the time I could not contact some of the leaders simply because most of them at the time were either detained, in exile or they had skipped the country and they wanted to enlist help from foreign countries. So I decided to fight it alone.

MRS SEROKE: It is clear from your statements that you have just given us today that you are very disturbed, very devastated that you had to lose all your possessions and up till now your health hasn't been the same and according to your statement you feel it apparent that, you feel that the Government has let you down because you were working for the very same government that let you down and now when you discover yourself to be in a predicament, there's absolutely no help that you get from the government. I want to know
HRV/1049 from/...
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from you, you've already explained that you can't get your pension, you once got it but at some stage it was cut.  Now what I want to know from you, what are your expectations from us as the TRC? What do you want us to do about your situation?  We've already heard about your health, that needs to get medical attention and be attended to. Did you want also the pension matter to be sorted out?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: Your honourable one, with great respect I would appreciate an effort that could be made with regard to my pension. That is the main aspect that I'm hoping could bring my life back to normal because I don't have any source of income at the moment.  Because even if I'm from Zone 10 to Everton when I go to Church, I always have to ask my children to give me money for the fares. Even the donations from the Church, I have to ask from my children. With great respect I do ask you to do something.

MRS SEROKE: We promise that we shall try by all means. We don't have the necessary authority to give people conclusions that we shall do this or that but we pass these resolutions, these recommendations to the State President who takes resolutions, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mkhiwane, before I thank you for coming, I just want to clarify a few issues myself. Can you please tell us, you said your wife was at home and you've also mentioned your children. Were they in the house at the time, was there anybody who was injured during the burning of your house?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: Fortunately there is one youth who was a member of the committee in ward - he came and rescued my family. He took them to Zone 10, I'm sorry that was Zone 7 and he took my wife to the third house from our place and he HRV/1049 pointed/...
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pointed out that there should be nobody inside because he could see that they would get started burning other Councillors' houses, so nobody was injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Yesterday and again today, we had some of your colleagues here from that time. People say, they burned our house down. Who is this they, I mean were they just ordinary people who marched in the streets, was there an organisation behind it, who is the they?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: Because I was not at home at that time, I was told that it was a group of youths as well as older people. It was a very big group.

CHAIRPERSON: So if I can just press you on this a little.
You are from what you've said, yourself, you were a member of a banned organisation, you became a member of a council, you must have had a perspective at the time. What was the perspective?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: I will ask you to repeat the question.  I don't think I understand it very well.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what I'm saying is that you have said that you were a member of a banned organisation. You became a member of a council who wasn't approved by the people, it seemed. There must have been an analysis. You're saying it was a big group of people.  You must have talked about it afterwards with your fellow councillors, with the police, with the Administration.  In terms of the perspective of the time, who was behind all this? Was it spontaneous, is that what you're telling us, it was all spontaneous?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: As I have already explained, it was called a strong rumour but there was no specific person that I can point a finger at and say this is the person who actually caused the whole thing.  It was a rumour within the HRV/1049 community/...
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community itself.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, I just want to ask two
more questions.  Mr Mkhiwane, one is we heard that your house was burned down on the first of September 1984, and you then said that you were part of a delegation that went to meet to meet with some of the government of the day in 1985/1986. Now but in that time did you remain a councillor, were you still paid as a councillor, when did your lifespan as a councillor actually finish?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: I stopped being a member of the council in May 1990 and when all ...(indistinct) van Zyl put an end to the Council over the TV but he never spoke to us.

MR MONTATA: So during that time between 1984 and 1990, you remained a councillor and you continued to be paid as a councillor?

MICHAEL MKHIWANE: As from 1984, until May 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mkhiwane, I have no further questions. My task is to thank you for coming today.  It is, you have come with nobility of spirit here today. You have come with an open mind, you have told us that you are a man of peace, a man of God.  We have heard what you expectations are of the Commission and as Ms Seroke said, we will pass that on to the relevant Committee and of course we will come back to you. We thank you for coming here today.