Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-07

MRS MBATHA: They were not at home because they are
HRV/140 attending/...
6
attending school in the rural areas in Qwa Qwa.

DR RANDERA: How old are your children?

MRS MBATHA: The eldest is 22 years old, the other one is 19, the last one is 14 years old.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Mrs Mbatha.  I just want to ask a few questions of your husband. Mr Mbatha, please can we just remember that you are under oath and what you say has to be thought out very carefully. I want to ask about this question of, I wasn't clear when you said it, at one stage you said you thought you were dreaming that there were policemen in uniforms. Are you absolutely certain they were policemen in uniforms there?

MR MBATHA: I don't believe that I could tell a lie that they were policemen, because I even saw their cars.

DR RANDERA: Can I ask, have you ever made this statement to any other lawyers?

MR MBATHA: There is a statement that I submitted to some attorney but there's absolutely nothing that comes out of it. I struggled for quite a long time running up and down, trying to get some help but I couldn't get any help.  Nobody was prepared to help me. I went to two lawyers, one white guy and I realised they were just writing me a lot of letters which were not helping me in any way.  Because I cannot cope, I have to keep on carrying my wife because she's a quadriplegic.  She cannot cope also. I even wrote to the President, Nelson Mandela, they sent me to minister Thabo Mbeki.  Even now Thabo Mbeki has been telling me that he has heard my story but he doesn't do anything about it.  Then he told me that there is absolutely nothing that they can do about my wife's case.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Mr Mbatha.
HRV/140

CHAIRPERSON: /...
7

CHAIRPERSON: I'm asking again, please help us by being
very quiet, very silent, to have order in order to give the witness and the counsellor the best chance possible to conduct this story.

DR RANDERA: My last question, you said that after they left the house you followed them and they got into cars. In the statement of your wife, it said that they got into Hippos. Can we just get some clarification here, did they get into cars or did they get into Hippos?

MR MBATHA: They got into the Hippos. They were driving Hippos when they came into the township, even when they went back they were driving Hippos, because when we went to the hospital, the Hippos were driving them into Kwamadala hostel.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Mr Mbatha and Mrs Mbatha.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Dr Boraine has a question or two and then I'll hand over to Mrs Seroke.

DR BORAINE: I just have one question actually. Mrs Mbatha, you have suffered very terribly and you are still suffering today as a result of what happened that night.  Have you been granted any kind of pension, do you receive any kind of an allowance because of being a quadriplegic and if so, from whom?

MRS MBATHA: A State grant.

DR BORAINE: You receive a State grant?

MR MBATHA: That's correct.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Joyce Seroke.

MRS SEROKE: Before this happened what were you doing?

MRS MBATHA: I was working as a domestic.

MRS SEROKE: Are you still staying at the same place where
HRV/140 this/...
8
this incident took place?

MRS MBATHA: Yes we are still staying there.

MRS SEROKE: Now where did you get this wheelchair?

MRS MBATHA: I was given it at the Natalspruit hospital.  It has never been broken but it's small now because I am big. I have gone to Sebokeng to try and get a new wheelchair but they told me that they could not get bigger wheelchairs.

MRS SEROKE: Do you Mr Mbatha, when you said it was as if you were dreaming when you saw the police, were you saying that because you did not believe that you could see them or you were not expecting that they could be at that place at that time?

MR MBATHA: What I meant was that according to me, they were not supposed to be there, attack people or be involved in making people to death, because they had put doeks on their head but we could see that they were police. They also had some clothes on their heads. Now they also had assegais as well as guns. When you run away they would shoot you. Now I was very disappointed to see police acting in that manner. I am very ashamed.

CHAIRPERSON: Once again, once again I ask ladies and gentlemen that you keep quiet.

MRS SEROKE: They have killed there, the last one Mrs Mbatha, yesterday there was a suggestion that the mothers that were affected in the Vaal area, should come together to try and sort out things with regard to reconciliation. We know that you are now a quadriplegic. You cannot cope as it is now.  What do you expect from the Commission. How can we help in order that there could be reconciliation in this place?
HRV/140

MRS MBATHA: /...
9

MRS MBATHA: I don't understand your question.

MRS SEROKE: Yesterday you were not here when we were talking and dealing with other aspects, but there was a suggestion that people in the Vaal Triangle area should come together as the things now have changed, we are looking at a new era, reconciliation as well as peace. Do you also share the same thought?

MRS MBATHA: Yes I do share the same thoughts of reconciliation.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mbatha, Mr Johannes Mbatha, I thank you very much for coming to us and to tell us your story. There's just one question to be asked still by Dr Randera and then I will allow you to go back to your places.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Mbatha, I just wonder whether you will tell us how much you receive from this disability grant from the State?

MR MBATHA: I'm getting R420.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mbatha, we've been listening to your story. We've been listening to the story of your husband Johannes who helped you with your story. We really feel for you.  It must be extremely difficult to sit in your wheelchair being quadriplegic. Thank you for being with us and may the Lord really help you in years to come. We've listened to what you said, your requests will be taken to the Truth Commission.  I was especially moved by what you said at the very last instance, that you do feel in spite of everything, that reconciliation is still possible, that you want reconciliation for your community. Thank you for that testimony, for that witness and now you may take your place again.