Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I don't have any proof, but when I spoke to her this morning at six o'clock she said this to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Proceed.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Inaudible) ... then I hand over to my learned friend.

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, I can point out that this person September gave evidence at the Harms Commission so there will be a version from him on record in the proceedings of the Harms Commission.   The applicant has already confirmed the contents of paragraph 10 of his application.  The next is paragraph 11.  Mr Nofomela, in paragraph 11 you deal with an attack in Lesotho in 1986 under the command of Major De Kock.  Do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Paragraph 12 deals with an attack on ANC members in Swaziland in May 1986, again under the command of Major Eugene de Kock, do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Paragraph 13 deals with kidnapping of a PAC member in August  1986 again under the command of Major De Kock in Swaziland, do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?
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MR NOFOMELA: /...
MR MARAIS	177	MR A NOFOMELA

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Paragraph 15 deals with an assault on a person by the name of Paris Mkize in the area of Piet Retief in the Eastern Transvaal, do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Paragraph 17 in the supplementary affidavit deals with the attempted kidnapping of an ANC member called General in Swaziland in 1981 under the command of Captain Dirk Coetzee, do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes, I do.

MR MARAIS: And paragraph 18 deals with the murder of Jabu Nyahosi and his wife in Swaziland killed by a car bomb explosion in 1982, do you confirm the contents of this paragraph?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, that then concludes the confirmation by this applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is application 17 and 18?

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, that is contained in a supplementary affidavit by the applicant that was handed up to you several minutes ago.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: This booklet contains applications which you submitted to the Amnesty Committee for consideration.  Were these submitted other than ....(intervention).

MR MARAIS: These were submitted later, after the hearing in Durban when it appeared that they were not included in the original application.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Were they duly submitted as applications for amnesty to the office of the Amnesty Committee?

MR MARAIS: Yes, they were, Mr Chairman.
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BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: /.....
MR MARAIS	178	MR A NOFOMELA

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: When was this?

MR MARAIS: In early December 1996.

CHAIRPERSON: I am now referring to item No 4 of page 8 of your application.  On page 9 you say that three of the occupants of a certain house were killed and one occupant escaped.  Do you see it?

MR NOFOMELA: I am still looking for it.  Yes, I see it.

CHAIRPERSON: The first paragraph at the top, the third sentence I think it is, which says
"Three of the occupants of a certain house were killed and one occupant escaped".
How were they killed?

MR NOFOMELA: They were shot dead.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible)

MR NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir, I was present.

CHAIRPERSON: And who did the shooting?

MR NOFOMELA: Colonel Cronje, Paul van Dyk, Major De Kock.  I do not remember the other two from Ermelo, they were white.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you told what the nature of the mission was on that occasion?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the purpose of going to Swaziland?

MR NOFOMELA: The intentions were to go and corner people who were sleeping at night.  It was planned that some would enter and others would wait outside and the ones waiting outside would shoot whoever tried to escape and those inside the house would shoot the occupants.

CHAIRPERSON: What were you required to do?

MR NOFOMELA: Myself and someone by the name of Geoff were posted outside guarded those who tried to escape.
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CHAIRPERSON: /...
CHAIRMAN	179	MR A NOFOMELA

CHAIRPERSON: You say that one of the occupants escaped.

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.   The person escaped by a window from what I heard from Geoff and Geoff chased that person and I shot at Geoff thinking that Geoff was the person trying to escape.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know why these people were attacked?

MR NOFOMELA: From what I was told, I was told that they were members of the ANC living there.

CHAIRPERSON: Who told you that?

MR NOFOMELA: Colonel Cronje said that.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Mr Marais, I suppose you are going to enlighten us during argument as to what the purpose is of asking for amnesty, for example in respect of this particular incident.  Because it seems to have happened exclusively or wholly in Swaziland, and I don't know whether amnesty can immune him against Swazi prosecution.

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, I am sure we will deal with that in argument.  If the conspiracy to murder took place in South Africa, I would imagine that the charge could be brought in South Africa, and I would also imagine that it can affect later extradition proceedings if that would be required if amnesty was granted in South Africa, but I have not looked into that in detail at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you please have a look at item No 8, this is the Lamontville killings, and turn to page 14.  What were you required to do, you and your friends on that occasion?

MR NOFOMELA: The instruction I received was that I should transport people to a certain bridge where I was to remain behind with Eugene de Kock and Geoffrey Bosigwo, I cannot remember the others, but where we dropped them off they were to proceed from.
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CHAIRPERSON: /...
CHAIRMAN	180	MR A NOFOMELA

CHAIRPERSON: (Chairman)

MR NOFOMELA: It is not something that emanated over a short period of time.  These people used to go there from time to time to Lamontville or Chesterville, I am not sure what place it is, but they used to go there often under the pretence that they were ANC people so that they could give weapons to people that they  met there and politicise with them and on a certain day they were to go there and shoot them and that's the day Geoff and I accompanied them with Eugene de Kock and other white people and some blacks as well and we went to this bridge.  And after a while we heard gunshots and we went back to our base at C R Swart.

CHAIRPERSON: ... people were targeted, do you know?

MR NOFOMELA: I cannot say but there were approximately 10 people from Vlakplaas and others that were assigned to this specific mission, I know some of them, but I cannot remember the others.  Even those who were shot, I don't know how many of them there were.

CHAIRPERSON: You say the men who had been sent to the meeting returned and reported to Major De Kock that the mission had been successful.  By this I understood that the target persons had been killed.  Did they not say how many people they killed?

MR NOFOMELA: I only heard after a while that there were people killed and there were some who escaped.  But when they came back they did not say whether everyone had died or whether there were any survivors.  They just came back and said that they had executed the mission and then we left.

UNKNOWN: Could you perhaps tell us, have you any information about the death of September?

MR NOFOMELA: No, I do not have any information, Sir.
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UNKNOWN: /...
ADV DE JAGER	181	MR A NOFOMELA

UNKNOWN: You haven't heard anything how he came to his death?  Was it an operation or don't you know anything about it?

MR NOFOMELA: I heard from Johannes Mbelo at the Eugene de Kock trial when I went there and I asked him about other people that I knew and I was told that he had suffered a heart attack, September had suffered a heart attack.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Simon Radebe, Geoff Woshiewe(?) and Samuel Marara, were they police officers or at least members of the Police Force?