Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-01-31

MR NODADA: Was it hoped that within that short space of time you would have successfully mobilised other members of the Transkei Defence Force to welcome and assist Col Duli in the take-over?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: He had told us that there were senior officers that he had already talked to, therefore we had to be there on that particular day to recruit Port St Johns, because he never got a chance to talk to the group from Port St Johns.

MR NODADA: Is it correct that you subsequently established that there were no such senior officers?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: We realised that on the 14th, when we heard that we are going to be arrested.

MR NODADA: As you were a member of the Transkei Defence Force based in Umtata, did you get the feeling that the bulk if not the entire TDF, was in favour of -or rather, was not happy with the ruling of the military council?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I cannot say for sure because we were based on different sections at work, some people had their own opinions, different from the others.

MR NODADA: Where were you when the aborted coup was staged on the 22nd of November 1990?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I was in Mount Ayliff in prison.

MR NODADA: You were already in prison.

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I was arrested on the 16th January 1990.

MR NODADA: Had you already been tried and convicted when you were at Mount Ayliff Prison?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: No.

MR NODADA: Not yet.  And you as a person and a member of the TDF then, you cannot say to this Committee that Col Duli had the full support of the Transkei Defence Force when he wanted to take over the Transkei.

INTERPRETER: May the speaker please repeat the question, there was a slight problem with the headset.

MR NODADA: Alright, thank you.  You personally, you cannot say from your personal knowledge, that Col Duli when he planned to stage a coup in Transkei, had the full support of the members of the Transkei Defence Force of the time.

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I can say he had a full support from the TDF members.

MR NODADA: On what basis are you saying that?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I saw that from the first coup when he was overthrowing Stella and there was no resistance from the soldiers and even when the Mzimwusi ...(indistinct) was resigning, there was no opposition or resistance.

MR NODADA: Now when he actually staged the aborted coup on the 22nd November 1990, were there any members of the Transkei Defence Force that supported him, to your knowledge?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: No, I do not know because when this happened I was already in prison.

MR NODADA: And you heard that his forces that came with him to Umtata, when they got to the Ncise base, they attacked one of the camps and the camp that they attacked was mainly made up of recruits and that is where they had most of their casualties.  Are you aware of that?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I heard that through the media.

MR NODADA: You heard that.  And certainly you will agree with me that if there was any support from the Ncise military base, there would have been no point for Craig Duli and his followers to first attack that base when they arrived in Umtata? - instead of coming straight to where the military council was seated at ...(indistinct).  If they had the full support of the TDF.

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: I cannot respond to that because at the time I was in detention, I had been there for quite a long time.

MR NODADA: Yes, but subsequently you were released from detention and you heard how the whole thing happened, isn't it so?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: Yes, I heard.

MR NODADA: Does it not surprise you that their first target was the military base in Umtata, if he had the full support of the members of the TDF?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: When I got out of jail that was no longer in my mind because I had been in detention for a very long time, suffering, I couldn't see my wife and my children and my parents and then I decided to disassociate myself from all those and attend to my domestic problems.

MR NODADA: Apart from Craig Duli's involvement in the 1987 coup which culminated in the military council ruling this country, what other reason did you have or can you give for concluding that during this second attempt by Craig Duli, he had the full support of the members of the Transkei Defence Force?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: It is because of his utterances.

MR NODADA: Is that all?

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: Yes.

MR NODADA: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NODADA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Nodada.  Mr Malan, questions?

MR MALAN: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MALAN

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions Chairperson, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Yes Ms Dambuza, any re-examination?

MS DAMBUZA: No re-examination, Mr Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS DAMBUZA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ntisana, thank you, you're excused.

SIDWELL MZWAMADODA NTISANA: Thank you, Sir.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we have reached the end of the testimony of those applicants who are available at this stage, we'll in all likelihood learn in the meantime, between now and when we reconvene tomorrow, what the situation is with the other two.  At this stage we are going to adjourn the proceedings and we will reconvene here tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.  We're adjourned.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS