Human Rights Violation Hearings — Rustenburg — 1997-05-07

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Malebo, thank you very much.  You have given us a very long, very well described testimony also in your statement.  Can I just ask a number of short questions, brief questions just to make sure that we have everything.  But thank you for trusting us with you story.  How many times all in all have you been in prison?  Have you ever counted that?

LOUISA MALEBO: Most when they arrested me, they would ask me about Rocky or the chief.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you, but was it five times or six times or seven times throughout the years that you were arrested?

LOUISA MALEBO: It can be about five or six times.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much.  Another question I wanted to ask very briefly, you said that in 1989, you were looking for the ANC, because you and your colleagues wanted to join the ANC.  It was still a banned organisation at that time, so it was a very dangerous thing to do, is that correct?

LOUISA MALEBO: Yes it was still banned by then.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  You said at one stage, at the end of your testimony when I interrupted you, that you went eventually to the South African Council of Churches, the Catholic Church and the South African Council of Churches.  Was that the normal thing to do when people in the Rustenburg area had problems?  Was the SACC also always there to help them and to give advice and to support them?

LOUISA MALEBO: No it was not normal or a usual thing for people to go to the Council of Churches.  According to me, I told those people to go there because I had been there before and it is only a few people that I told that.

PROF MEIRING: But do you know of other cases where the SACC also helped people with their plight?

LOUISA MALEBO: Mostly I read about this in newspapers or saw on TV the way the Council helped people.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  My last question has to do with you and your family.  How many children do you have?

LOUISA MALEBO: I have two children and four grandchildren.

PROF MEIRING: And they were often there when you were harrassed or when you were taken into custody by the police?

LOUISA MALEBO: Yes, they were there.

PROF MEIRING: How did it affect your children and the grandchildren?

LOUISA MALEBO: This affected them negatively.

PROF MEIRING: Did you ever speak with them and try to explain to them what happened or did other people try to explain to them why these things happened?

LOUISA MALEBO: It is only me that explained to them what was the problem.  There was no-one outside the family who came to explain to them what was the problem.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  Those are my questions, but I think my colleagues probably would ask a few questions too.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Could you tell us what was the political position of the - or perspectives of the Progressive People's Party and how these differed from that of Mangope's Christian Democratic Party?

LOUISA MALEBO: We, within the Triple P, we saw that the Government was not doing things the way they should be done and particularly in Phokeng.  We were looking that Mangope's government was oppressing the Bophokeng people.  Even if not all people who were seen that his Government was oppressive, but we, some of us, many of us would see that we were oppressed by Mangope's government.  That is how we saw that the Triple P organisation would be able to help, that maybe Mangope's government would try to understand that they are oppressing the Bophokeng people.

RUSSELL ALLY: Could you give us some examples of how you believed Mangope's Government was oppressing the Bophokeng people, some concrete examples.

LOUISA MALEBO: There are many things which I can show or say. In many instances, as I am a member of the Bophokeng tribe, Mangope's Government, even when they have their meetings in Phokeng, he was not able to recognise, he was not recognising the Bophokeng people.  By that we saw that if he is able to denigrate the integrity of the chieftainship of the Bophokeng people, how can we respect his Government?  Even if they have, they did not agree in other issues, but he could not just tell those things in front of the whole people, there should have been some forums where they could have solved their problems.

RUSSELL ALLY: You say that he denigrated the Bophokeng people, how, what was the kind of things which his Government did which were seen as denigration?

LOUISA MALEBO: There were many things that happened.  Usually we as the Bophokeng people, that it's going to happen in Bophokeng has to be known by the chief first and he also has to address it or pass it on to the Bophokeng people.  It could be buildings or whatever was going to happen in Phokeng, but Mangope would only erect buildings in Phokeng without consultation, not knowing to know whether the chief would agree or not.  Some of those buildings are still around, even at the present moment.

RUSSELL ALLY: What was the position of the Progressive People's Party towards the whole question of independence, Boputhatswana as an independent homeland, what position did the Triple P take on that issue?  (tape ends.....)

LOUISA MALEBO: ....freely and would be united.  They were not discriminating according to colour.

RUSSELL ALLY: And the coup that took place in 1988, was this something that took everybody by surprise or were people in the Triple P expecting this?  Was there talk about it or was it something that when it happened most people were quite surprised by it?

LOUISA MALEBO: We did not know anything about the Boputhatswana coup and we had not heard anything before about it.  We only heard about it after it took place.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much, Chairperson.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Malebo, I just want to follow up on a question that my colleague asked.  In your statement you say the Triple P came into, or you were a member since 1973, is that right?

LOUISA MALEBO: There was a mistake.  Triple P started in 1985.

DR RANDERA: 1985.  Okay.  So was it a party that was ever harassed prior to the 1988 Coup?  They existed as a legal party within Boputhatswana, am I right in understanding that?  It was only after 1988 that you started being harassed as a member of the Triple P?

LOUISA MALEBO: Even before its inception, it took time to be registered by the Boputhatswana Government, because Chief Mangope did not like this the organisation, but we continued despite of that until Lucas Mangope registered our government even, I forgot what day it was.

PROF MEIRING: I accept what you say there, but was there any harassment of any of the Party members, yourself, Rocky, Malabane Metsing, any of the other leaders of that Party before 1988, before the coup took place?

LOUISA MALEBO: We started to be harassed before even its inception or before it registered as a Party, because there were problems about its inception and even about its registration, because the Boputhatswana Government didn't like the Triple P from the start.  This organisation experienced problems whilst we were negotiating its inception.  We were harassed even before until it's inception and accepted by the Government.

DR RANDERA: Can you tell us what the relationship was between the Bophokeng people and this Party and the chief of the Bophokeng?

LOUISA MALEBO: There was no relationship between Triple P and the Chief, the Bophokeng chief.  Our chief was accepting the two organisations, Mangope's Party and the Triple P as freely as possible.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  My next question may be unfair.  If you feel it is unfair, you do not have to answer it.  The Triple P was banned after 1988.  I understand it has seen a revival post-1994.  What is your feeling about the Triple P today?

LOUISA MALEBO: I do not know how to answer that question Sir.

DR RANDERA: Fair enough.  Thank you very much.