Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

DR BORAINE: Mr President in the absence of our Chairperson who is very humbly sitting down below there for a moment I just want to say that the person who you see sitting in front of you, Mr Gerald Thebe, was actually a colleague of yours for about five years on Robben Island.  I am not sure if you met then.  He was a very young man.  But he has come to tell the story about some very bad assault and beatings in jail before he was actually tried and sentenced and sent to Robben Island and we were just concluding that.  But now we would very much like to hear from you.  Thank you.
PRESIDENT NELSON MANDELA ADDRESSES THE AUDIENCE
 It is an honour for me to be given the opportunity to say a word or two on this occasion.  We appointed this Commission because we want the victims of the brutal persecution and suppression of those who were demanding equality and justice in their own country, who were victimised.
 In setting up this Committee we took particular precautions that this Commission will be as impartial as possible.  I called all the political parties in this country and I asked them to nominate a representative to a selection committee.  That selection committee then elected about 40 names which they presented to me.  I had to appoint JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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17 people from that list of 40.
 I also decided that I was going to make this committee representative.  It would represent all the political parties that were there.  It would also include prominent personalities who were not aligned to any political party.  I did not appoint it as a commission of any organisation, least of all of the African National Congress.  It is a commission for the entire country, but I made sure that its members were eminent South Africans who would enjoy the confidence and the support of the entire population.
 You are aware that some people protested against the inclusion of certain personalities here.  I totally rejected that.  To say that I considered these names very carefully and although some of them may not belong to the liberation movement, indeed they may belong to parties which were our enemies, nevertheless in this task we want all South Africans to be able to sit together to address these injustices.
 I thought I should come myself and see how the proceedings are getting on, and my coming here is merely to confirm what now is a matter of common knowledge, that in this Commission we have got men and women of outstanding integrity and honesty and who are doing their duty without favour and fear
 It is a source of great comfort to me that we have been able to bring together these men and women who are doing such a marvellous job, because until we know what offences, what crimes were committed against innocent people, there will never be reconciliation in the proper sense of the word.  To forgive and to forget means that you should know what actually happened.  The relatives of the victims are 
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keen to know what happened to their beloved and those who were tortured but are still alive they would like the criminals to be brought to book.   I am confident...(tape ends)...  a vital service to the community.  
 In these words I thank you.
APPLAUSE

DR BORAINE: Thank you Mr President very much indeed.
Mr Thebe I am sure that you have forgiven us for interrupting your story because you couldn't have had a better person to talk about reconciliation than the President himself.
 We were in the middle, or right at the very end of your story.  Mrs Mkhize had one final question. I will hand over to Hlengiwe Mkhize.

MS MKHIZE: Excuse me Sir, I still wanted to know that when you were growing up maybe elderly people did they say you used to have a headache and you were brought up well while you were still at school and you only started having these mental problems when you were arrested.
(Excuse us we cannot hear the speaker)

GERALD THEBE: I started being sick when I was in prison, after I was arrested.  When I grew up I was very healthy.  I wasn't ill when I was young.

MS MKHIZE: The very, very last question, while you were still attending school were things going alright and the teachers didn't have any complaints with you that you will have any problems as you were growing up.

GERALD THEBE: No problem.  I never had a similar problem.

MR MALAN: The Act says that we must find that people who are victims in terms of a very specific definition and I think this may relate to a definition of severe ill
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treatment.  Can you please explain to us, or tell us what was the nature, and I know it's difficult, the nature of the injuries that you sustained through the assaults?

GERALD THEBE: At the time when I was injured these people hit me with a iron bar on my head and they kept on kicking me throughout my body and I was also electrically shocked.  They wanted guns, they wanted to find out the information from me where had I put my guns, and all the information in relation to my going to join the ANC.

MR MALAN: You said you didn't want to go to the hospital because you were living in fear at that stage of them killing you or attacking you again, but why did the advocate want you to be sent to hospital, was that for the psychological difficulties or was it physical injuries at the time, that's really the question?

GERALD THEBE: Well it was both mentally and physically.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Russel Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Thebe do you have any medical records?

GERALD THEBE: Yes it's the psychiatry that I have, the psychiatric records.

RUSSELL ALLY: Are you supporting yourself at the moment?

GERALD THEBE: I get a pension R410,00 every month, sick pension.

CHAIRPERSON: Anymore?

DR BORAINE: The Chairperson has asked me to sum up before we ask you to move back to your seat because he wasn't here, he was meeting the President.
 It is clear to us that the injuries, the torture, the ill-treatment that you received has had a very big effect on your life.  It has left you a very sick person, someone who 
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has to take medication every day.  We feel very deeply for you and are grateful that you have come to tell us your story.  Unfortunately it's a story which is all too familiar.  
 We hope that we are going to be able to give you some help.  We will think very carefully about what you've said and we'll do everything we can, if we can possibly be of assistance to you in the future.
 We wish you well and we thank you again for being willing to come and share with us the story of what happened to you and what's happening to you right now.  We wish you well.  Thank you.

GERALD THEBE: I have only one question.  I want to know what do we say about Joseph Thebe because he is now mentally disturbed?

DR BORAINE: We have taken note of your concern for Joseph Thebe and we will investigate that at your request, and as soon as we find out the particulars we will then be able to take the action that is necessary.  Thank you very much for thinking not only of yourself but also of other people.
Thank you.