Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1997-08-13

MR PURSHOTAM: Mrs Mbatha, are you the wife of Stanley Mbatha, the person who died in the incident?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I am the wife.

MR PURSHOTAM: Did he die on the spot or later in hospital?

UNKNOWN: He didn't die there, he died in hospital after three days.

MR PURSHOTAM: How old was he at the time of the incident?

UNKNOWN: In 1990, he was 33 years old.

MR PURSHOTAM: I should have asked you this before - but what was his name?

UNKNOWN: Stanley Mbatha.

MR PURSHOTAM: Where did he work at the time of this incident?

UNKNOWN: Railway, at Umbelo.

MR PURSHOTAM: Did you visit him in hospital?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did.  Twice.  The last time when I went there I found him, he couldn't see.  First time he couldn't talk and his stomach was in bandage.  He couldn't talk but he tried to say something.  I could only see his lips moving and the second time when I went there he was just being badly and that was the last time.

MR PURSHOTAM: What kind of injuries did he suffer, do you know?

UNKNOWN: He was shot in his stomach.

MR PURSHOTAM: Do you have any children?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I have two kids.  When he died, the first born was 10 years old, the second one was six years old.

MR PURSHOTAM: And was he supporting you and the children at the time?

UNKNOWN: Yes, me and the kids and his mother.

MR PURSHOTAM: Who is supporting them at the moment?

UNKNOWN: It's me- me alone.  I'm taking care of his mother and my kids because there's no-one who can take care of his mother.  He was the only one taking care of his mother.  Now that he's not - no longer there, I'm taking care of his mother.  I'm working and I'm supporting my kids.  The house that I'm staying at - I'm still owing the bank and the money that I am earning is very little.  I'm only left with R1000-00 to take care of the kids and the - and his mother, my husband's mother because most of my money is going to the bank to pay back the house.

MR PURSHOTAM: What is your attitude to the application for amnesty which is before this Committee?

UNKNOWN: To tell the truth, this doesn't give me any rest.  These people want to go back to their families.  They want to reunite with their families and continue living nice.  And look at me, I lost my husband.  I lost a husband, someone that I - and my children as well lost a father.  He's mother lost her only child, the only child who was taking care of her.  And now me and my kids are being humiliated.  And now these people want to go back to their families and have a nice life with their families.  And what about us?  We don't have someone who is going to help us, we don't have the father of my kids - my husband.

MR PURSHOTAM: Have any of them approached you and asked for forgiveness?

UNKNOWN: No, no-one.

MR PURSHOTAM: Did anyone write a letter to you, asking for forgiveness?

UNKNOWN: No-one.

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PURSHOTAM

MS VAN DER WALT: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

MR WILKINSON: No questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR WILKINSON

MR PRINSLOO: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mbatha, thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I now propose to call Patrick Gele.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Chairman, could I ask whether something could be done about ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes ...[inaudible]

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PURSHOTAM: How hold are you, Mr Gele?

UNKNOWN: I'm 25 years old.

MR PURSHOTAM: Were you on the bus on the day of the incident?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PURSHOTAM: You've heard Mr Zulu this morning relating to the Committee what happened on that particular day.  Without repeating what he said, do you wish to add anything to what happened while you were on the bus?

UNKNOWN: There is nothing more I can say as far as the accident or the attack is concerned.  I also lost consciousness.

MR PURSHOTAM: What injuries did you suffer as a result of the attack?

UNKNOWN: They shot me on the leg and I've got iron rods.

CHAIRPERSON: [inaudible]

MR PURSHOTAM: Could you merely tell the Committee what kind of injuries you suffered, without displaying the injuries?

UNKNOWN: Ever since I was attacked, I'm no longer working.  Before I was working and I was maintaining my family.  I also have three children and now I can no longer work because I don't have balance on my other leg.

MR PURSHOTAM: Yes, what is wrong with that leg?

UNKNOWN: I was operated upon and there's an iron rod or irons that were put inside my leg.

MR PURSHOTAM: How many children do you have?

UNKNOWN: I have three children.

MR PURSHOTAM: And what are their ages?

UNKNOWN: One is 8 years old, one is 12 and one is 4 years old.

MR PURSHOTAM: How are your children supported at the moment?

UNKNOWN: Nobody's maintaining them.  My mother tries to make ends meet but besides that, there's nobody who maintains them.

MR PURSHOTAM: Were you working at the time of the incident?

UNKNOWN: I was working.

MR PURSHOTAM: Where were you working?

UNKNOWN: I was working at Umgeni.

MR PURSHOTAM: And what was your job?

UNKNOWN: I was a ...[inaudible]

MR PURSHOTAM: Are you saying you were a labourer?

UNKNOWN: I was a labourer.

MR PURSHOTAM: What is your attitude to the amnesty applications which are before this Committee?

UNKNOWN: It's not an easy thing to forgive because now my life has changed drastically.

MR PURSHOTAM: So, are you in favour of the applications or not?

UNKNOWN: I oppose the application.

MR PURSHOTAM: Have any of the applicants approached you and asked for forgiveness?

UNKNOWN: No, they never came to me to ask for forgiveness.

MR PURSHOTAM: Have they written any letters to you, asking for forgiveness?

UNKNOWN: Absolutely not.

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PURSHOTAM

CHAIRPERSON: Questions?

MS VAN DER WALT: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

MR WILKINSON: Mr Gele, are you also known as Sipho?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR WILKINSON: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: No questions.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Were you injured in your leg - the leg that you wanted to expose to us?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.  It is from my leg upwards to my thigh.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Did you remain immobile for some time at the hospital?

UNKNOWN: That is correct, I couldn't walk.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: After how long did - were you able to walk again?

UNKNOWN: I'm still using crutches, even now because I have no balance.  I can't walk properly.  I'm still using my crutches because there is this iron rod which keeps on pricking me.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Right Mr Gele, thank you very much.

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman.  That is the last witness who did approach me with a view to giving evidence.  I don't know whether there are other individuals who may wish to come before this Committee.  And I'll be indebted to the Committee if it announces to the people who are here, whether they wish to come forward.  I personally don't wish to call anyone.

CHAIRPERSON: Can my remarks be interpreted please, in Zulu?
Ladies and gentlemen is there anybody here who wishes to give evidence in relation to this incident, either because you were personally affected or because some member of your family was personally affected?  Because if you do wish to give evidence, we will afford you the opportunity of doing so.  There's nobody?  Very well, thank you.
	Do you close your case Mr Purshotam?

MR PURSHOTAM: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Those are the only witnesses I wish to call.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink, is there any or are there any witnesses you propose calling?

MR BRINK: No, no I don't propose calling witnesses Mr Chairman.