Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

MR SEMENYA: No, I am just reading something, the transcript of what you would have said.  Under this particular paragraph it stands,
"Mr Sono: 'No, I did not follow it up.  That particular person who has given the police that information to go and dig there I have no confidence in that person.' "
Who is this person?

NICODEMUS SONO: I don't know what you are talking of because you ask me a question, you should tell me who that person was because I did not know who that person was.

MR SEMENYA: No, I am trying to quote you, sir.

NICODEMUS SONO: I don't know to whom you are referring to.

MR SEMENYA: Can I give you this page maybe to refresh your memory?

MR UNTERHALTER: Chairperson, to assist, I wonder whether Mr Semenya could just identify what page of the record is being referred to. It's a bit hard to follow.

MR SEMENYA: The record unfortunately is not numbered.

CHAIRPERSON: There are paragraph numbers, I believe.

MR SEMENYA: Each page has paragraph number 10, 20, 30, so it won't assist.

MR VALLY: Mr Semenya, if you look on the left that's a line number, if you look in the middle of the hearing record that's a paragraph number.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to assist?

MR UNTERHALTER: Paragraph 24.

CHAIRPERSON: Paragraph 24.

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes, I've got it.

MR SEMENYA: Who is this person you say you don't have confidence in?

NICODEMUS SONO: That I was referring to Jerry Richardson, because he is the one that came out that he said here is secret graves where my son was buried.

MR SEMENYA: Oh, you have no confidence in Jerry Richardson?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Why?

NICODEMUS SONO: I mean, if that has happened in 1988, why did he keep mum while I appealed to say, please help me find my son. Why did he keep mum?

MR SEMENYA: Is that the only reason?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes, that's the only reason and that I wanted to know where my son's remains are, if it's the case that he's killed so that I can exhume and re-bury.

MR SEMENYA: Can I refer you to what must be then paragraph 17. In that paragraph you say that a Captain Dempsey, and you are referring to some name that is indistinct, you say instead of Captain Dempsey taking this person to the police station he took that person to Winnie.

NICODEMUS SONO: That I was referring to papers that came - those matters came out of papers.

MR SEMENYA: You are saying you don't know what they are about, you are just reading them from papers?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes.  No, I don't know this person's name. Kulwa, I don't know that person's name.   Oh that, you are referring to Katiza Cebekhulu?

MR SEMENYA: Oh, were you referring to Cebekhulu?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: You are saying that Captain Dempsey took him to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: I said that because I heard it saying, it was said by other people, and that's why I made that.

MR SEMENYA: Now I also hear it said that Mrs Madikizela-Mandela has been linked to murders. Let us talk about Siboniso Shabalala.  The link that is there is that his name, Siboniso, would have been on a matchbox, is that right?

NICODEMUS SONO: Siboniso Shabalala?

MR SEMENYA: His name was on a matchbox, that's the link to the murder of Shabalala?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I cannot answer that one because my son is Lolo, and Siboniso was his friend, so somebody that was looking for them had their two names on the box of match, so what is your question?

MR SEMENYA: Are you suggesting in the slightest of manners that the disappearance of Siboniso Shabalala must be attributable to Mrs Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: I am not deciding, I am not saying anything about that, as I have said in my statement that Siboniso went himself and he said he is going where Lolo has gone, that's all what I have said.

MR SEMENYA: So you are not trying to attribute a complexion that suggests Mrs Madikizela-Mandela has anything to do with the disappearance of Shabalala?

NICODEMUS SONO: The Shabalalas are here, they will speak for themselves.  I speak on behalf of the Sonos.

MR SEMENYA: But getting from you, you are not taking that case as I put it to you?

NICODEMUS SONO: I have said to you that I was told he left on his own.

MR SEMENYA: Did anybody attempt to identify these people who call themselves the Mandela Football Club members?

NICODEMUS SONO: Anybody like who?

MR SEMENYA: Anyone that you know who is able to identify the people who had the matchbox?

NICODEMUS SONO: I cannot answer to that one because my wife told me two young men which were not known to her came to the house looking for Lolo, so I cannot say there is anybody that can identify that.

MR SEMENYA: If I understand you, and maybe this is my last question, the essence of your evidence is that the last time you saw your son it was with Mrs Madikizela-Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: That is correct.  The last time I saw my son was in the company of Mrs Mandela, Mike Siyakamela, in a blue kombi with young men that were not known to me.  That was on the 13th of November 1988.

MR SEMENYA: What I am trying to ascertain is, are you saying therefore she has something to do with his disappearance?

NICODEMUS SONO: I have already mentioned that she was present and she went away with him.  What else must I say?

MR SEMENYA: Ja, what are you trying to have us infer from that?

NICODEMUS SONO: I am not trying to have you infer of anything, but what I am clearly saying here is that Mrs Mandela went away with my son in a blue minibus kombi with other people that I never knew. That's what I told you.

MR SEMENYA: Did you on occasion work and help drive Mrs Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I have never driven her, she has only asked me a favour once to drive a bus to a certain garage in Meadowlands, that's all.

MR SEMENYA: I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Can I ask Mr Unterhalter is there any....

MR UNTERHALTER: Mr Chairperson, I would have a few questions but it might be convenient if I ask them once everyone has had a chance from these benches to put their questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR RICHARD: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Again Tony Richard representing Jerry Richardson.  Mr Sono, if I make this proposition would you disagree with it or agree with it?  If Mr Richardson had not applied for amnesty and owned up to being party to the killing of your son, you would not have known the truth. Is that true or false?

NICODEMUS SONO: That is true.

MR RICHARD: Now you have made mention of him in your evidence. Do you find it unnatural that he took so long to own up?

NICODEMUS SONO: I beg your pardon?

MR RICHARD: He took a long time to own up, do you find that unacceptable?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I found it acceptable.

MR RICHARD: And are you pleased that he has now told the truth?

NICODEMUS SONO: Am I?

MR RICHARD: Pleased that he has now told the truth?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I am not pleased.

MR RICHARD: As much as you could be.  No further questions.