Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-14

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: The attorney came to me with a little bag with a bullet in it and he told me that the bullet was from my firearm.  I pointed out to him that it was a bullet from a 9 mm pistol not from a .38.  Mr de Meillon's attorney from Bloemfontein was also present.  They took a lunch break and after that Mr de Meillon pleaded guilty and the two trials were divided in separate trials.

MR KOTZE: During your own trial in Springs were any allegations made that firstly you had shot and killed Mr Terblanche?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Were there any allegations that you had fired a shot in the guardroom?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Mr Holder if you have to look at the matter objectively, how do you feel about that action on the 23rd April 1994?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Well if I think back now, I feel that it is something that I will have to carry with me for the rest of my life, this feeling of self-loathing and I can't measure that against the heartache of the parents of the deceased and his family and never again would I like to become involved in something like this again.

MR KOTZE: Would you say that these events of the 23rd April took place according to plan or would you say that unforeseen things had happened?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I would say it was totally unforeseen what had happened.

MR KOTZE: And as far as Mr de Meillon is concerned, what are your present impressions regarding him as a person and his judgement?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Then I think he was fanatical, Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: But on the night of the action did you at that stage, were you in a position to form this impression?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Well I think after that I thought he was really a bit off his rocker and that he had acted impulsively Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Did you at any stage meet Mr Terblanche's parents or family?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No Mr Chair, they were just in court the day Mr de Meillon pleaded guilty, it was the only time that I saw them and when we adjourned and after lunch when the judge separated the two trials, we returned home and they remained behind in court.

MR KOTZE: As far as the crime itself is concerned, do you accept that you were party to the murder and the robbery with aggravating circumstances?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes I accept the court's finding.

MR KOTZE: How do you feel about the crimes you had been involved in and committed?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Well I'm very sorry that I had participated in something which had led to the tragic death of such a young man and I can only express my sorrow and the fact that I feel remorse towards his family and his parents.

MR KOTZE: As far as your right-wing affiliations are concerned, are you still a member of the AWB?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I have given up all my ties with the AWB and all other right-wing organisations shortly after this event.

MR KOTZE: As you had stated you are a qualified electro-technician?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct, Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Were any indications given to you regarding work that would wait for you were you to be granted amnesty?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct, Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Could you give us more particulars?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Well many of the rental contractors could provide me with work at any time.

MR KOTZE: Should amnesty be granted, do you plan to become involved in crime at all in future?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No Mr Chair.

MR KOTZE: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOTZE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Kotze.  Mr Prinsloo any questions?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Holder, 1993 October, were you already a member of the AWB?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No Mr Chair, December I became a member.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you aware of meeting held by the AWB in Klerksdorp where there were big congregations of people, where many people met inter alia leaders of the AWB and stated ultimatums to the Government?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes I'm aware of many meetings arranged by the AWB before I joined.

MR PRINSLOO: Are you aware of the meeting at the Trim Park in Potchefstroom in April 1994, beginning of April where war talk was made and where people were called upon and where a Volkstaat's borders would be sketched out?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I saw that on television Mr Chair.

MR PRINSLOO: Are you also aware of a variety of bomb explosions which preceded the elections?  I'm not referring to Johannesburg, explosions to the Sunday onwards to election day but before that time in the Free State in the Western Transvaal, are you aware of those?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No I haven't heard of those.

MR PRINSLOO: So you didn't but you are aware of the fact that the AWB had propagated country wide to oppose the elections?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes I'm aware of that Mr Chair.

MR PRINSLOO: And country wide, people would be protected and a Volkstaat and a Volkstaat would be formed and then violence would be committed?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct, Mr Chair.

MR PRINSLOO: You testified that with regard to illegal firearms, that's the word that you used?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Now where would you have fetched illegal firearms?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I was given to understand by Mr Schalkwyk that people had firearms that were not registered in their name which were illegal as the word indicates, that they would be using during the time that the civil war would break out.

MR PRINSLOO: Those arms would then be taken physically from these people who were in illegal possession of them?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Would that take place in Pretoria?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct, Mr Chair.

MR PRINSLOO: In Vermeulen Street?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is what Mr de Meillon pointed out to us at this building.

MR PRINSLOO: But these illegal weapons that was referred to was in the words of Mr van Schalkwyk, he had told you about that?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes, Mr van Schalkwyk said we were under the command of Mr de Meillon, they had observed the whole matter and they had investigated it fully.

MR PRINSLOO: Just to get clarity Mr Holder, it is your testimony that Mr van Schalkwyk was as a matter of fact the commander and he told you, which had nothing to do with Mr de Meillon, that you would have to confiscate or take over by violent means firearms in illegal possession of people, is that what you said?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is what I said.

MR PRINSLOO: So you are not attributing it to Mr de Meillon?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: We were under his instructions.

MR PRINSLOO: No, no you don't understand the question clearly, this is what Mr van Schalkwyk told you, not Mr de Meillon?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Mr de Meillon hadn't stated anything to me, Mr Chair.

MR PRINSLOO: Good, according to your statement in paragraph 15 you furthermore state and that's on page 24 that he had reconnoitred the set up and knew where automatic arms could be obtained.

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: So you were satisfied on that day you were just going to collect the firearms whether by violent means or not and that the necessary reconnoitring had already been done?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct, Mr Chair.

ADV GCABASHE: May I come in, excuse me Mr Prinsloo, can I again ascertain, when Mr van Schalkwyk said these things through that there were weapons to be found at Vermeulen Street, these were illegal weapons, this was in the presence of Mr de Meillon?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: This whole conversation he heard?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: But he said nothing at all?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No, Mr de Meillon didn't participate in that discussion.