Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-19

EDWARD WEBB: I was convinced that we weren't involved.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: When was the enquiry made?  You say after the first day of the murder?

EDWARD WEBB: No, I didn't say that.

GEORGE BIZOS: Shortly after.

EDWARD WEBB: Shortly afterwards, yes, a week maybe, I'm not sure.

GEORGE BIZOS: Now we know that Mr Verster, according to you, is not telling the truth about Omar and Evans.  As you're sitting there, should you have believed Verster if you knew what you know now?

EDWARD WEBB: On what I know now?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.

EDWARD WEBB: No, I suppose I wouldn't have believed him, but then I didn't know that.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, I'm going on to a new topic, I don't know whether ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, this might be a ...(intervention)

GEORGE BIZOS: I just want to put a ...
	You see we have dealt with sixteen instances of attention being paid by Region 6 to various people, this would explain would it not, what it is that they were busy doing and - would it not?  That they were doing very much more than you say you knew about, do you agree with that?

EDWARD WEBB: It's possible.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well their evidence is that this is what they say they did, never mind what the purpose was, we'll argue that, but they seem to be busy with at least another sixteen suspects.  If their evidence - it's mainly from their evidence that this information has come, that would explain what they were busy doing and that they were not as inactive as you say and thought they were.  Would you agree with that?

EDWARD WEBB: It's possible.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes you know this "moontlik" isn't very helpful, as His Lordship, Mr Justice Stegman said, the Committee is not interested in the remote possibilities but in probabilities which you have to show that you have made full disclosure about.  "Dis moontlik" is not helpful.  What I'm putting to you is, do you concede that this is what they must have been doing if they say so and either you are not telling us the truth about how much you knew, or there was a deliberate hiding of relevant information from you.  Can you think of any other explanation?

EDWARD WEBB: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think that Verster had full confidence in you?  Why I ask this is, he was a Special Forces man through and through and you were a new person coming green as it were, into the world of the Security Force, thinking back now, do you think that might be a reason why he might not have taken you into his confidence, or ...?

EDWARD WEBB: It's a possibility, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: Again this possibility which doesn't mean much, what do you expect the Committee to do with that possibility?  Did he ever show any hostility towards you?

EDWARD WEBB: No, Chairperson.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did he ever show that he did not trust you by not answering your questions directly and immediately?

EDWARD WEBB: No, Chairperson.

GEORGE BIZOS: By not doing what you asked him to do?

EDWARD WEBB: No, Chairperson.

GEORGE BIZOS: By withholding information from you which you asked him to give you?

EDWARD WEBB: No, Chairperson.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, so your possibility doesn't mean very much, does it?

EDWARD WEBB: I'm not worried about your thoughts, Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: I beg your pardon?

EDWARD WEBB: I said I'm not worried about your thoughts.

GEORGE BIZOS: Are you not?

EDWARD WEBB: I'm worried about the Chairman's thoughts.

GEORGE BIZOS: Oh well, we hope to guide the Chairman as to what he ought to think.

CHAIRPERSON: Please don't put too much on my shoulders, I'm just one of three people sitting here.

MR SIBANYONI: May I ask you one question, General Webb.  As the Chair of the CCB, what were you supposed to do with the information you were getting from the Regional Managers?

EDWARD WEBB: No, I never got information from the Regional Managers, they would send information - are you talking about intelligence?

MR SIBANYONI: Yes.

EDWARD WEBB: Intelligence they would send through a certain channel.  If you talk about an operation that had to be approved, it would come to me.

MR SIBANYONI: Were you required to report to any upper structure?

EDWARD WEBB: Depending on the type of operation, if lives were to be lost or foreseen to be lost or not foreseen to be lost.

MR SIBANYONI: You have said that in so far as the budget is concerned, certain powers were delegated to the Regional Managers ...

EDWARD WEBB: No, no, to Col Verster.

MR SIBANYONI: Yes, I'm referring to him.  Was he supposed to account to you, for example after he has spent any of the budget?

EDWARD WEBB: No, there was an accounting system and that was done by the Defence Force Accountants and his own Accountant.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Will this be a convenient time to take the adjournment?  I think so.  We'll take the adjournment now and resume tomorrow morning at half past nine, same venue.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS