Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-26

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Ms Paulsen I wonder whether your husband would like to add anything - but before I would ask your  husband to say  something, I wonder whether my other colleagues would like to ask you any  questions.
 Fine we can proceed with Mr Paulsen.   Good morning Mr Paulsen, thank you  for having come today.  Do you want to add anything to what your  wife has told us.

MR PAULSEN: On that specific day I  was working.  I kissed my two sons goodbye when I went to  work that morning, because I loved them dearly.  I worked till two o'clock that afternoon at the South African Transport Services.  I met my wife at the Mutual station because our car was in the garage in Elsies River.  We had to go to the garage to see whether the car was ready.  We came home by train and said we should rather go to  Maitland station, because that would be quicker to Mitchell's Plain.
 When we came down Forester Way a friend of  mine who just stays behind us, and he said careful they coming, and I  said don't make jokes about this and I said what's wrong.  And he told me your son had been killed and I said is it serious and he said  no, he had been killed.
 My wife ran away, she ran home.  And then I  ran after her, she threw her handbag away and I  followed her home.  Having arrived there, my mother in law, she is  blind, she is deceased now, and I asked her what had had happened.  And after I had asked then he ran away and he ran into the tear gas again.  And afterwards I had to go and fetch him.  I brought him back, having arrived home, and they  said I  could phone my mother in Calitzdorp, but I was unable to speak.
 Then we went home and we were just sitting there.  Later on I  said the police haven't even come to tell us the child had been shot, what had happened to him and I said  we should go  to the police station.  When I came there, a Coloured policeman put a gun to my stomach and I said you just strong when you have a gun in your  hand, but the one who had shot my child, will die.
 Then I went into the police station.  I hit on the counter and asked who had shot my child.  They didn't answer, they were just looking at me.  And then I  asked again where is my child and they said  go  and find him at the mortuary.  We went home again and then the next day  we went -  returned to the police station and then the commanding officer did not  instruct the Mitchell's Plain police to shoot, it was the police from Cape Town.  And then they said it was police from Transvaal who were shooting.
 And then we went to the mortuary and found his body there.  For three months I had this pain in my chest to tell the honest truth, I loved that child dearly.   Lionel was only 12 years old, you could sent him to the Town Center to pay  insurance or to do anything.  We could sent him to the  rent office to pay electricity, he could work with a lot  of money  and he came back and he would  give us the receipts.  And then he said Mommy I  was hungry, so I bought a packet of  chips.  So I  said that was your payment for  that.
 We were a good solid family, both of these boys played rugby at school, but it was very-very difficult for me.  This is  all I want to say.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Apart from Karel do you have any other children at the moment - do you have any other children?

MR PAULSEN: No we only have Karel at the moment, and we have a little girl Sheryl it was an adopted child, we adopted her in Lionel's place - it was my cousins little daughter.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So you adopted a child?

MR PAULSEN: Yes, to replace Lionel.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you Mr Paulsen.

MR PAULSEN: Thank you  Glenda.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you at any stage after this incident called to court, summoned to Court?

MR PAULSEN: I don't know how it happened, because there was no court case.  We just went to a small little room at Wynberg Magistrate office and up till today, I still do  not know who had shot my child.

ADV POTGIETER: What did they tell you in a small little room in Wynberg.

MR PAULSEN: I did not want to go in, I sent my wife.  I don't know, I would have taken revenge, that was how I had felt.

ADV POTGIETER: Because, did they give you any answers there.

MR PAULSEN: No nothing at all.

ADV POTGIETER: And could you find out how the shooting incident had happened.

MR PAULSEN: All that I heard when I came home, the people told me that the Casspir came down Eisleben Road.  And down Westpoort Avenue and it turned left at the robots, and then somebody jumped out, ran up and then from the house they shot over the vibracrete wall into the school grounds.
 From what I heard Matthew's son which goes to school at Eros, they  were waiting for him to come, they were waiting to come - for him to come with the Kombi and then the police shot over the vibracrete walls into the school grounds.

ADV POTGIETER: I am sorry you  wanted to add.

MR PAULSEN: According to what the people said, he first fell in the little passage and then they carried him to the stoep of this  house.  The police, there were two  policeman standing there, and another  person,  Quentin died immediately but Lionel still lived for  about half  an hour.  Another person offered to take Lionel to hospital to see whether they couldn't save him, but the police said why do you  want to make all this effort -  they've already died.
 And the neighbour said Lionel is cold and she put a blanket over him and they asked Kallie and he held his hand till he died.