Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-12

MR RICHARD: Now could you describe what the Parade Hotel consisted of?  Were there residential rooms, hotel rooms, places of entertainment?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes there were, there were residential rooms upstairs and as you went in on your left the Why Not bar, on the right hand side the Magoo's bar and also further toward the back of the building you had Garfunkel's.

MR RICHARD: Now what was Garfunkel's.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It was a restaurant, entertainment centre.

MR RICHARD: And what happened in Garfunkel's?  What distinguished it from the others?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: There were tables and set menus that you could order meals from time to time.

MR RICHARD: And then ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Was it a restaurant?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You'd go there for dinner or lunch and then you order food.

MR RICHARD: Onto which street did the restaurant, Garfunkel's, face?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well it wasn't the Marine Parade, it was the street going up alongside the hotel.

MR RICHARD: In other words the street running from east to west?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes.

MR RICHARD: Now after Garfunkel's to the east I understand you had the Why Not establishment?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

MR RICHARD: Now what was particular about the Why Not as an establishment, what distinguished it?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It was like a - I'd call it like a stand up bar, there were a few tables but at the time it was like - the Why Not bar and the Magoo's bar they were sort of the in place to go, everyone was there, if you wanted to see some of your friends you would meet there.

MR RICHARD: We'll come to that point.  Now we're talking about the Why Not bar, you're saying it was a stand up bar, in other words what I understand from what you say is that were places to stand and drink as opposed to places to sit and eat?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, before you proceed Mr Richard?  Mr Jeffers, you said that in the year prior to 14th June 1986 you went to the Parade Hotel about once a week.  What did you go there for?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: To meet friends in the evenings.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you used to go to Garfunkel's or the Why Not or Magoo's or all of them or did you go there for breakfast or did you have drinks in the evenings?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No, generally if I went in the evening or Saturday afternoons or in the evenings you could attend each venue.

CHAIRPERSON: You could move from one to the other without paying a covert charge or anything like that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No covert charge.

MR RICHARD: Now which day of the week did you prefer, was the week or the weekend?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Generally the weekends.

MR RICHARD: Now we have established what the Why Not was, now what was particular about Magoo's, what distinguished it from the Why Not?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: The Magoo's generally had live music, a band playing there Friday nights, Saturday nights.

MR RICHARD: Now earlier you said something about its popularity, how would you describe its particular reputation during 1986?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well generally in 1986, 1984, 1986, all clubs, one club would suddenly become very popular over a couple of months and then stay that way and some wouldn't, people wouldn't attend them so much and move on to other places like the Cattleman for instance but at that time Magoo's bar and Why Not bar was a place where I'd meet my friends

MR RICHARD: Now as a result of being a frequent visitor to both Magoo's and Why Not, did you become familiar with other patrons of the establishments?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes I did.

MR RICHARD: Now from what walks of life did they come?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: From all walks of life.

MR RICHARD: Did you make friends with people there?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes I did.

MR RICHARD: Now did the people who patronised the Magoo's as opposed to the Why Not sections of the Parade Hotel, differ in any way?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well in a material way?

MR RICHARD: Yes, was it a different group of people or was there anything that would distinguish them?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes there was, Magoo's seemed to be a bit younger and there was always live music and people dancing and bobbing up and down and it seemed to be a lot more packed and if you found it difficult to get into Magoo's you'd retreat sort of to the Why Not bar, generally could get in there and have a drink.

MR RICHARD: Now would you say that your familiarity with the patrons of the establishment would have enabled you to know what their occupations during work hours was?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: The friends that I had I knew what kind of work they did.

MR RICHARD: Were any of them soldiers, policemen?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Jeffers when you went there once a week was it always the same people there?  You see I can understand, why I'm asking the question if you belonged to a sports club and you go to a clubhouse, golf club or bowling club, one will normally meet the same people there because they are members but was this a public place, there was a membership because you did use the word club earlier.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No, no membership.  You could walk off the street and everybody could and go in and have a drink or meet people.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, so what was your impression, was it a floating clientele, change in clientele or was it always regulars?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: There were a few regulars at the place.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, few regulars and then other people that would pop in, maybe residents in the hotel, tourists, whatever.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: As in regulars I'd say that people that were there basically every evening to have a couple of drinks.  A couple of guys that I know that were car salesmen and things like that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.  Mr Richard?

MR RICHARD: My question was, did you get to know the regular patrons?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Just one or two of the people, the regular patrons.

MR RICHARD: Now if the establishment had become the regular so to speak watering hole of persons from either Natal Command or from the C R Swart Police barracks some distance away would you have been aware of that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I'm sure at that time I would have been aware of it, yes.

JUDGE PILLAY: Why?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Now how far away ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr Jeffers, why would you have become aware of it?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well because the few times that I went there kind of thing it was a - all the people you could see, I could see a person that was from military background.

JUDGE PILLAY: Are you talking about uniform or other references, other modes of reference?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I never heard that?

JUDGE PILLAY: I say do you say that you'd be able to see they were of military background or whatever because of expecting them to be clad in a particular uniform or were there other ways of establishing that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I'm not sure of any other ways of establishing.

MR RICHARD: Now ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: So do I understand you correctly then that you didn't see anybody there clad in uniform?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Generally no.

MR RICHARD: Now was it your habit to indulge in idle conversation with anyone who might have wanted to speak to you?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That's the way I am now as well, yes I think it would be like that, yes.

MR RICHARD: Now from your last answer I take it to mean that you did not go there to particularly socialise with a particular group?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Jeffers, we're talking now about the Why Not, was that the case you went rather than Magoo's?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It was either or.