Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-20

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I was never convicted by that person.  This is how we would carry dagga as peanuts in our bags and the prisoners who are listening, they will know very well I am telling the truth.  I was never caught with dagga.  Sergeant Venter took the dagga I had one time.  We were in cell number 4, no, number 6.  We were watching TV in a certain hall and one person had this dagga and I went to Venter and I told him that: "You'll never arrest a prisoner for dagga", and he laughed about that.  He took that dagga and put it in a drain outside and it was flushed with water.  It was flushed in water and I was never convicted for that.

MR NEL: I have a form with me which is a charge sheet, Mr Gwamanda, dated the 20th of February 1992 and the presiding officer was Lieutenant D Venter.  And during those proceedings according to this official form, you pleaded guilty in front of Lieutenant Venter to possession of dagga and in fact you were sentenced to 25 days in solitary confinement together with the regular shortage of meals.  Do you deny this?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Venter must just admit and say that he wrote that form so that he can present it to the Commission and defend himself.  That dagga was flushed in water and that was the end of the story.  What you are talking about now I have no knowledge of, this is just a way of escaping for him.  I would love or I would appreciate that you should ask me about this "skietbaan".
	Outside, far away from Barberton Prison, why was I found there or why was I taken there?  Maybe that's the question I will suggest for you to ask me.

MR NEL: Mr Gwamanda, the question I'm asking you is, do you deny that Mr Venter was the presiding officer and convicted you for possession of dagga on the 20th of February 1992 and also sentenced you for that offence and do you with that denial, if you so do, say that the form is a fabrication by Mr Venter?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: This is an absolute fabrication.

MR NEL: And the prosecutor who was involved in that trial, I have difficulty in pronouncing his name, it looks like Kansas, are you then saying that he also fraudulently filled in this form as being the prosecutor in this matter?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Let me give you this scenario.  I was sentenced in Open Camp and working outside the prison where I worked five days without being given any food during that time when I was working.  I was kept there at the Open Camp and I would work without any food.  When I assaulted that person it was because he was harassing sexually a small boy.
	But as for what you are saying about Venter, I don't see any correlation between that and my application for amnesty.  I don't see any reason why you should insist about this form and questions.  That line of questioning I don't think I agree with.  There is not correlation between what you are saying and what I'm asking for amnesty for.
	Even at the Maximum I ...[intervention]

MR LAX: Mr Gwamanda, sorry to interrupt you.  The reason why Mr Nel's putting this to you is pretty clear.  You said you were on good terms with Lieutenant Venter, he's saying to you you weren't on good terms with the man because he convicted you.  That's really why he's putting it to you.  We can beat around the bush for hours about this but do you deny that form, is that what your evidence is?  Do you say that didn't happen?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I dispute that, I was never sentenced or convicted in Town Prison.  There was never a time when I was convicted.  This I'm hearing for the first time.  The dagga, anything about the dagga ...[intervention]

MR LAX: Sorry, just to clarify, you were never convicted you say of dagga, never mind which part of the prison, it was in 1992, February 1992.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes, Mr Chairman, I was never convicted in Town Prison for dagga.

MR NEL: Do you remember any of the other offences that you were convicted of whilst being in Barberton?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Let me recall.  I made so much noise in Maximum where they keep dangerous inmates.  I shouted for another guy and said: "Please give me a cigarette"  and I was told that I should go aside and I will not be fed three times.  In other words I will miss three meals and indeed I missed three meals.  In other words I did not eat for the whole day, just for saying: "Please give me a cigarette".
	After that I never encountered any problems.  I went to Medium B and I have no knowledge of any conviction there.  It was at Open Camp when I had another offence.  I was not even aware that I had committed an offence.  I was with the Captain, a white Captain by the name of Stolz, Stols or Stolz, somewhere there, a white guy, I said: "Captain yes, I've committed an offence and I know and he said: "Because you agree or you do accept this, you will not eat, you will have to be drinking water."  I don't remember if it was for five days.  I would drink water, samp water.  
	And again I committed an offence at work and he said: "You see my boy, you are stubborn, I will not give you food so that you stop these offences".  Those are tiny offences that I committed and I have a clear recollection of.  That's when I said to him: "You have cost me to starve so much, please transfer me from here".  And indeed he transferred me to Town Prison.  These are the offences I have clear recollection of.
	One time Tabete had an argument with a certain boy -  often times or not at prison I would be regarded as a very straight man or a moral man as it is the case even here at Westville because I'm a chairman of peace and I'm regarded as a very disciplined inmate.  
	This is the book that will display all what I'm talking about and it shows so much of me as a very disciplined inmate.  So I will not dispute what I know.  I think Venter is highly mistaken in what he has just made mention of.

MR NEL: The petty offence you referred to, was that the 30th of October 1990 when you were sentenced to 15 days solitary confinement for assault, when you kicked a man in his face whilst he was lying on the floor, do you recall that Mr Gwamanda?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes, I agree with that, that happened at Open Camp.  They called it Medium A because there was another one, Medium B and then it will be Maximum in Prison Farm and you'll find another one in Town Prison.  In other words, in Barberton you will find four
prisons.

MR NEL: Mr Gwamanda, on the 20th of February 1991 you will also, do you recall being convicted and sentenced to 20 days solitary confinement for theft of two  sheets?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Theft of two sheets, sheets as in paper?

CHAIRPERSON: The two sheets, is that bedding sheets?

MR NEL: Bedding sheets, thank you, Mr Chairman.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I thought I had already explained that  Captain made that explicitly clear, that I had already committed an offence because of that cigarette issue and I was sentenced at Open Camp.  He said I'm so stubborn and so silly and I said to him: "I'm an orphan, I have nobody who cares for me outside the prison".  I don't dispute that, I agree.

MR NEL: What I'm trying to say, Mr Gwamanda, that we know of your record outside of prison but it seems like inside of prison you also are very au fait with criminal activities.