Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-16

MR NTSEBEZA: I discover also that there were so many problems thereafter, there was a time when you were visited by one of the white men, who wanted a story about your son. Isn't that so?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is.

MR NTSEBEZA: He also wanted a photograph of your son?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did you give it to him?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes I did.

MR NTSEBEZA: And is this the photograph which was used during the program of the funeral?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Where did this gentleman come from?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: This person said he is a reporter, a journalist and he had all the equipment with him.  He came on Sunday very early in the morning.  He said he it was the New Nation which was banned after Siphiwo.

MR NTSEBEZA: Was this publicised together with what you were saying?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes I gave him the whole story and an account of what happened at the time.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is this the story that you talked about, I don't want you to read, it is true...

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Oh no I also may not be able to read it true because my tears are full.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is it you who is on this photograph?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is me.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is this Siphiwo down there?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is.

MR NTSEBEZA: Okay I'm satisfied, let us finalise this.
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
11 MAZWAI
Were you fetched by the police in connection with that publication.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes this gentleman came on Sunday morning.  When we sat together in my sitting room, he requested me to give an account about myself and what happened to my son, and I gave the full account.  I left no stone unturned. We were together with another black man.
 After the account they went away, so I thought everything was in order and I think it was on a Tuesday or Wednesday.  Again the same white man, the same people, it was the police, came in, and said they 've come to fetch me. I was surprised. Even when the terrorist was now dead, "Yes", they said, "We've come to fetch you!" "What is it now?"  He said,"No you are wanted." 
 So we went together with my son, and I was still weak at the time, it was only two days after the burial.  When we got there, I again found a full house, the people who were surrounding me were hefty and powerful.  They called me, "Mrs Mazwai, who came to visit you at your house on Sunday and publicised this?"

MR NTSEBEZA: What did you say to them?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I said, "It's one of you who was there". I was telling them, I said, "One of you, one of you", I was pointing at the whites.  They denied visiting my place. I said that he was just like them.  He asked me everything and I gave him the full story.

MR NTSEBEZA: Why did you say it was one of them.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: It's because he was very rude with me so I wanted to be rude to him too.  You know they were asking me questions. They said it wasn't one of them.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did they say?
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
12 MAZWAI

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: They said, "No not even one of us went to your place." I said, "Oh well he ordered me to speak and I spoke.  He asked me questions, I gave him answers." And they sat, they stayed there.  They looked at me and I stayed there with them.  As time went on, one said, "Don't you even remember his name?", I told them I didn't but he mentioned the name.  "How was he?", I said,"He  was just like that one sitting there."

MR NTSEBEZA: Were you not tired to be sitting there? You know telling them time and again who was sitting at your place.  Others from Port Elizabeth were full in the house, heavily built, what did you say to them?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I said, "No, can I please get tea, I'm thirsty, it's 11 o'clock now?"

MR NTSEBEZA: What did they say? They said,"Someone will prepare you tea."  I said, "No, I want tea from my house".  They sat there staring at me.  One of them said, "Take her to her house."  I was then taken to my house.  You know, on the stairway I saw one guy from Rhodes, he was carrying a bag and I said to them ," Look, this is the one." They said, "No he's a student at Wits."
 On our way down I saw another guy, I pointed at him and said, "That's him."  They said, "No this one is also a student at Rhodes."  They took me then to my place.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you very much Mama.  Today you had a chance to give testimony.  How old are you?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I was born in 1913.  On 7th July I was 83 years old.  (end of tape 6 , there is no further recording which concludes this testimony )
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE