Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1977-08-07

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, we would hold some meetings where we would discuss issues or routes to be followed on that particular day or to launch a counter attack as well as with regard to meting out punishment to ...(inaudible) members of the group and at times we would work in consultation with the Chairman.  If I remember very well, at times they would tell us that if you are an Inkatha member, it does not mean that you should kill indiscriminately.  They used to give us those motivational talks as well as meting out punishment to certain members of the group.

ADV DE JAGER: You were told sometimes that you shouldn't kill indiscriminately, is that correct?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No what I was saying is, they said if we are members of Inkatha we shouldn't just kill.

ADV DE JAGER: Okay, you shouldn't just kill but were you allowed to kill somebody, specific people or a group of people, what did they tell you or what did you decide?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: We used to make those decisions all by ourselves that UDF members should be killed because they were also killing us indiscriminately as Inkatha members so we also did the same as a group of youths and we would go and launch an attack.  The reason for that was that at times we would be with a certain group and fight against the other members then one member of the group would go out of Inkatha and join the UDF and these were the things that were causing the cracks or the break-up between the two groups.
	After killing in one group they would run to the other group so as to escape the retaliation of the next group.  As I've explained that even from the members of the UDF would cross floors and come to Inkatha members to join the Inkatha group.

ADV SANDI: Mr Hlengwa, as I understand the situation what was happening here as you have put it, there was a conflict between two main political parties and  members of those parties or organisations were fighting each other and the youth in particular seemed to have been deeply entangled in this conflict, is that a correct understanding of what was happening here, very briefly yes or no?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I could say that.  I could say we were caught in the middle at some stage.

ADV SANDI: Am I correct to understand that anyone of the two groups could just kill a member from the other side even if he had not done anything to him specifically?  It was enough if he just ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I do not understand your question.

ADV SANDI: One could be killed simply because he belonged to a political group?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: That is correct, if you were a member of a different or opposing political group you would be killed because you are standing in the way of the other group.  They were killing Inkatha members because they regarded us as their enemies and we were also killing them because we regarded them as our enemies.

ADV SANDI: And Mr Makanja was a member of the UDF, when did you become aware that Mr Makanja was a member of the UDF?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes he was and I got to know that because I used to see him together with members of the UDF, that is the youth of that particular village.  He was always amongst the UDF youth just like myself, I was always amongst the Inkatha youth.

CHAIRPERSON: At the time of your arrest for these offences, what work were you doing?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: At that time I was not working because it was difficult for us to commute from home to work but I was working at the Checkers stores at Dawnside.

CHAIRPERSON: When last was it that you worked at Checkers store?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I last worked immediately after I was released from detention.

CHAIRPERSON: When was that?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: It was in 1988.

CHAIRPERSON: For how long did you work at Checkers?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I didn't work for a long time because there was a violence and there was a stronghold for UDF members and they would come and check if there were Inkatha supporters nearby.

CHAIRPERSON: My question is for how long you worked, that's all.  For how long did you work?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I think I worked there for three weeks.

CHAIRPERSON: After that did you work for anybody else?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: For who?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: In Rosebank.  I was working for Mr Haka in Rosebank, we were making furniture, lounge suites and bedroom suites and it was in 1986.

CHAIRPERSON: My question was, after you worked for checkers did you work for anybody else?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: After I left Checkers, I never worked and I couldn't find any job because the situation was bad.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shembe, any re-examination?

MR SHEMBE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I don't have any re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SHEMBE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, you can move off from that chair now.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: There is something I would like to ask.  I would like to repeat these words again to the next of kin of Mr Makanja and Mr Simiso, I've just forgotten his last name, I would like to say I don't know how I can take this back and I would like them to look deep down in their hearts and find forgiveness because this thing is really killing me.  I don't have reasons and excuses, I don't know how to put this to them for them to at least find it in their heart to forgive me.   If it wasn't because of Inkatha and UDF violence, Mr Makanja would still be alive and we were not able to sit of talk, instead we preferred violence and I would like them to forgive me.
	I don't like the way he was killed because he was from a funeral to bury his brother and then he died and when I think of these things and I put myself in Mr Makanja's family's shoes, I realise that I can't bear it myself and I feel for his family.  I also thank God that he didn't die and his wife didn't die in that situation.  I feel a great deal of remorse.  I don't know how to explain this thing except to say I ask for their forgiveness.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: There is one other thing which I would like to express and that is that I am prepared to work this sentence in jail and also I'm prepared to work hand in hand with other people who want reconciliation.  That's all I have to say and I also ask God to forgive me as well as Mr Makanja's ancestors and Mr Simiso.  That's all I have to say.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, all right.  Yes, thank you.  Mr Shembe are you calling any other witnesses?

MR SHEMBE: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink, do you propose calling any witnesses?

MR BRINK: No, I don't thank you.

ADV DE JAGER: None of the victims present that want to say something?

CHAIRPERSON: There will be indicated to you Mr Brink, their attitude?

MR BRINK: Yes, they have but it may be as well, having heard the Applicant's evidence they may wish to address the Committee and I agree.

CHAIRPERSON: I will stand down for a short while for you to find out whether members of the family would like to say anything.  You will call us as soon as you are ready?
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Brink?

MR BRINK: During the short adjournment Mr Makanja and Mr Msomi who was injured in one of the attacks have indicated to me that they wanted to speak to the Applicant and they have done so and other members of the family will do so after the Committee adjourns but none of them will be giving evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shembe, you have an opportunity to address us if you desire to do so.