Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-23

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, it was conveyed to Mr Verster, who immediately said that we should do a pre-study.  I just can't remember at what stage he said that, but a pre-study was requested and I'm assuming that he would at that stage have decided what we were going to do, depending on what we could achieve.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did you know where to find the person and where he lived and where he worked and so forth?  ...(transcriber's interpretation)

WOUTER J BASSON: No, I don't think that was available on these documents.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So who had to get that information for you?

WOUTER J BASSON: Mr Burger identified Chap Maree, he had to make use of an indirect member.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So the order was given by Burger and he then took it further?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And Mr Burger already testified yesterday that information about where he lived etcetera, was obtained.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, Mr Maree delayed, he dragged his feet a bit on this matter and he became involved in other activities, he went abroad.  So at some point information was available and that a presentation was done or a submission was made.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was Maree present or not?

WOUTER J BASSON: No, the decision was that Slang van Zyl would do the project after Maree left and Mr Burger and myself then felt that if we could get these gangsters from the Cape, then the plan would be to make it look like a knife incident or a robbery, which was meant to be fatal.  We did this briefing and Mr Verster said he would come to us and talk to us about it again and at some point he did.  I don't know whether it was with myself or Mr Burger, he spoke to us, contacted us and told us to go ahead.  Mr Slang van Zyl then summonsed his people and ...(intervention)

MR P DU PLESSIS: And the order was given to Mr van Zyl?

WOUTER J BASSON: Given to Mr van Zyl, yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: If I understand correctly, he wasn't involved in the initial procedure?

WOUTER J BASSON: No, we used Maree's details for that.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And without belabouring the point, it now appears that the address wasn't correct and you couldn't continue at that stage.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I can't remember whether Evans perhaps wasn't there or the address was not right, I can't remember the specific detail, but the project couldn't be finalised, it couldn't go ahead.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But the intention was, and the plan was that Mr Evans must be eliminated?

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: However, that didn't happen.  Now in that connection you say there was approval from Verster?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.  I just want to explain to you that no project can take place, or no pre-study can actually get off the ground without a written authorisation from Mr Verster.  At all times I required his signature, for instance to draw money, to obtain funds, so that's why I'm saying that it was done on his approval and funds were in fact utilised.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Yes, I don't want to go into the detail of that.

WOUTER J BASSON: What it's about is movements.

MR P DU PLESSIS: In the same period more-or-less, there was this project relating to Mr Dullah Omar and I think it's on record now that the intelligence came from van Zyl's infrastructure in the Western Cape.

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that Mr Omar had been identified.

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.  The information I verified with this Derek person.  I just want to say that when I spoke to Derek I didn't always give him specific names as a result of security reasons, I would give five or six other names with the name of the person that I wanted information about.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So it was a type of disinformation method?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, because if something was to happen to that person, then the first person who would know was your intelligence person because he gave you the information.  So a lot of other names were fed into the system as well and these were simply almost as a red herring.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was that your own clever idea, or was that the way you were trained?

WOUTER J BASSON: It's I suppose training, I had a lot of experience with Security bodies and structures and it simply is a method which we knew about.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Mr Omar's case and the detail will be covered by other parties I suppose, if necessary, but the Omar case also went through the prescribed steps with the approval which was required?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, it went through the cycle as already familiar to us, the necessary authorisation was obtained.  I just want to say that as far as Omar and Evans, as far as those two cases are concerned, I wasn't physically present at any time when Verster discussed it with Gen Webb.  There's no specific reason for that.  It wasn't necessary for me to be present, it was handled on another level, but I did have the authorisation from Mr Verster and I accept and assume that it was cleared at a higher level.

MR P DU PLESSIS: There are indications in your diary, and I'm sure it will be dealt with later, that there are indications that Mr Verster indicated that he would speak to Webb who was the Chairperson at that stage.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I remember that entry, but my inference from that is that it came up again at a later stage that Grosskopf, or that Evans was contacting or making contact with Grosskopf and that it took place in Zambia and the re-initiation of the project, perhaps Mr Verster wanted that and he indicated that I should remind him to speak to the Chairperson, I don't know what about.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But he wanted to discuss it?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So you say that there was new information that Evans went to Zambia where he met Grosskopf?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: The project regarding Mr Omar has already been placed on record in great detail.  This project once again was not carried out in the way it was initially conceived, namely that he was to be shot dead with a Makarov pistol fitted with a silencer?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You confirm your involvement in the procurement of a weapon?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I confirm that that was the initial plan and that I formed a part of that planning.  I just want to add that with the change of plan to the toxic substance plan, I was not present when those proposals were made and the planning in that regard, I was busy disconnecting from Region 6 to some extent because a void had been left by Mr Botha's departure and my responsibilities then once again included looking after Region 2, so these other two people were brought in.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Is that Nick?

WOUTER J BASSON: Nick and Theo, and they were supposed to fulfil those functions.  I don't deny that I knew about it.  Mr Burger informed me that that had been the change in plan, so I was aware of it.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But you didn't deal with or procure the toxic substances or tablets?

WOUTER J BASSON: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now the weapon, you provided that.  The firearm, where did you get it from?

WOUTER J BASSON: There's an organisation at Special Forces, EMLC, and there was a contact person, Hekkies ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what was the organisation, MLC?

WOUTER J BASSON: EMLC.

CHAIRPERSON: What was that?

WOUTER J BASSON: EM stands for Electronic Mechanical Agricultural substances.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was it also a front organisation?

WOUTER J BASSON: Well it was a private organisation but they were situated on the premises of Special Forces Headquarters.  They had their facility there where they made available chemical or mechanical things.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Well it seems to me that it was a covert organisation who would provide this kind of support and services to the Defence Force.