Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

MR LAX: 20B/3 up.  I was near the window.  The headboard is near the window.  When I got up, I saw the curtain burning, and whilst I was still frightened by that I opened the curtains.  I took off the thing I was wearing and when I tried to get out I met a boy who had some spots.  I met this boy on the door and I asked this boy, "Bheki, what is happening?"  He didn't answer me.  He was wearing a jacket.  As people we knew that they were harassing the community, I suspected that they were the ones who were burning our house.  As I was asking him, "What is happening, Bheki?", he came straight to me, because he was a bit further from me.  He came towards me.  Because I took out some sticks, I had them in my hand, but when he came to me I threw them at him and he bent over and they passed over him, and when he woke up I grabbed at him and when I tried to grab at him my jacket - the jacket he was wearing - he wasn't wearing the arms.  He had not put the arms on his jacket, he was just hanging it over him, because the following day I found that it had pegs.  When I helded him he ran away and I remained with the jacket.  It fell down.  During that time he had an axe with him.  He hit.  I don't know how I managed to escape but he just hit me on my hand.  I tried to grab at him.  He then ran away.  At that time when he was running away I tried to look at the back as the house was burning - at my aunt's place, at Mdluli.  There was fire.  The whole place was burning and the fire was coming out of the windows as well.  The people were inside.  There were children as well.  There were cries.  I was trying to find a way - I think they were trying to escape, and it would seem they were suffocated by the smoke inside.  At the place where

MR LAX: /I was standing

MR LAX: 20B/5 I was standing at the back there was a child that was sleeping there.  I could hear the child crying.  At that time I don't know where I got this bravery.  I pitched through although there was smoke inside.  I could hear the child crying inside.  When I tried to go through the window and the window was on the other side, I grabbed at this child and this child is called Brenda, he is here.  When I tried to hold this child and I was just standing there - I tried to hold this child - I think the skin was falling off.  When I was trying to put my hands on him, the skin was falling off.  I got hold of this child.  As we left here at Mdluli at the back I tried to go to the front of the house.  There was some grass.  I put this child on the grass.  This child - I think this child was burning.  He was badly burnt.  He was a child who had hair, but I can't explain the hair of this child.  Even the neighbours were coming because they could hear this fire burning out.  The neighbours were trying to help us.  While they were trying to open the taps, to open for water, there was no water.  We were surprised what had happened to the water.  We went to the neighbours.  The neighbours had water.  We started getting water from the neighbours.  We scooped water from the neighbours.  I also saw the neighbours helping.  It would seem that they had closed the meters - they had closed the water from the meters, so that we could not get water.  It would seem this thing was planned when they did this thing.  We tried to put out the fire.  While things were still in that condition there was a boy from our neighbour near our home - he is from Mngadi - he also appeared when he heard that something was happening, because it was around that time

MR LAX: /when there was

MR LAX: 20B/7 when there was a lot of harassment.  When he arrived even at his home he also said this A-Team arrived there.  There was some damage they did at his home.  When they arrived here he found that at Mdluli's place it was also burning.  He ran to the police station.  He reported this matter.  We were at home.  We were trying to put out the fire, and other neighbours tried to take people out inside - who were inside the house.  Others were already outside, but they didn't know how they had managed to get out.  While things were still like that the soldiers came.  The place was still burning.  The soldiers came.  We said there were two small children that were still inside and other children inside who were burned.

MR LAX: Mr Mhlongo, I want to try and help you focus a little bit on what has happened and you told us about this boy that ran to the police station.  Who was that?

WITNESS:  I didn't say he ran to the police station.  He was the boy of my neighbours.  He found that they had already damaged things at his home.  He was planning to go to the police station to report that these things were happening in his home and only to find that things were also happening on our side as well.  They were the very same people - they were the same people who did the same thing at his home who had come to attack us as well.

MR LAX: Now, you spoke about a person called Bheki, that you recognised.

WITNESS:   Yes, it's the Bheki who hit me on my hand.

MR LAX: And did that person belong to any group, as far as you know?

WITNESS:   He belonged to the A-Team.

MR LAX: Now, the A-Team was a group of people who were operating in Chesterville at that time.  Is that correct?

MR LAX: /---  It's

MR LAX: 20B/10

WITNESS:   It's a group that I could say they were terrorising the community in Chesterville.

MR LAX: Without mentioning names, what sort of people were in the A-Team?

WITNESS:   It was a mixed group.  They were people ... (inaudible) ... by the community.  Some of them were just low boys, you know.

MR LAX: So you are not able to say from which part of the community they came?  Perhaps you could help us?

WITNESS:   They were people who grew up in Chesterville.

MR LAX: We will obviously have to investigate this much further and contact all of these people and we would appreciate it if you could give us some names in that regard.  Now, perhaps you could just explain to us where Avra Mdluli is and why she hasn't come here today.

WITNESS:  Avra Mdluli?

MR LAX: Yes, she was the person who was supposed to talk to us now.

WITNESS:   I explain that is it is Mazwi Mdluli not Avra Mdluli.  It's Mazwi Mdluli.  He is here.

MR LAX: Okay, so is there no such person as Avra Mdluli?

WITNESS:   Avra?

MR LAX: Correct.

WITNESS:   Maybe there is just a mistake and confusion and they meant to say, Mazwi Mdluli.

MR LAX: Thank you for helping us clear that up.  How many people that you know of died in that double house that you spoke of in that fire that night?

WITNESS:   One of them was my contemporary.  He was born in 1961.

MR LAX: What was that person's name, please?

WITNESS:   Nokwazi Mdluli.

MR LAX: And who else that you are able to help us with?

WITNESS:   It's Bongi Mdluli, who is the mother of these, and Brenda and Stabile.

MR LAX: /Do you have

MR LAX: 20B/13 Do you have any idea how old Bongi Mdluli was?

WITNESS:  It's a boy called Bo.  I think he was 5 years old.  Stabile, I think he was 6 months old.  Brenda was 2 - Brenda was 2.  Nokwazi, I think he was 25, because he'd been born in 1987.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Did anyone go to the police that night and try and call them to come and help you and intervene in this attack, as far as you are aware?

WITNESS:   There were things where the soldiers came, who were taking that time to the hospital together with all those children - the children were taken first and we followed after that with Nokwazi and Bo.

MR LAX: So, if I understand you correctly, it wasn't the police that came anywhere near the place, it was soldiers that came?  Do you know where those soldiers were from?

WITNESS:  Those were the soldiers who were on the camps nearby.

MR LAX: Just one thing to help us clear up - the person who gave this statement to us, was that Mazwi Mdluli?  Do you follow me?  The person who gave us the statement originally, was that Mazwi Mdluli?