Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Did you know any of them?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Siphiwo Ngqizani and Soki were the ones who killed Lulama.

MS MAYA: Were they arrested?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, they were not arrested.  When we went to court, the Magistrate said that the case was dismissed.

MS MAYA: What reason was given for this?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: There was no reason, because at that time, we could not argue with the Magistrate.  If the Magistrate told us that the case was dismissed, we could not do anything.  It was the Magistrate who told us that the case was dismissed.

MS MAYA: Do you remember the name of the Magistrate?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, I don't remember the name of the Magistrate.

MS MAYA: You said that when you were called in this house, you stayed with this child and he was not dead at the time?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: You did not manage to take him to hospital?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes, we did not manage to take him to hospital,
because it was dark and there was no electricity, there was no ambulance at that time.  Because you would hire a car when somebody was sick.

MS MAYA: You mean that he passed away while you were sitting next to him?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: He was 13 years old?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes, he was 13 years old, he was doing standard 1.

MS MAYA: Was he a member of a political organisation?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: He was very young Ma'am.  My brother was the one who belonged to the ANC.  My child was still very young, he did not understand anything.

MS MAYA: In other words he was just a victim who was going home?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: The last question.  In your statement you mentioned that Dr Claasen was not allowed in the hospital when your child, when the post-mortem was conducted?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: We will now deal with Xolani's incident.  Who was Xolani?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Xolani was also my child.

MS MAYA: He was injured in 1992, on the 24th of March?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Why was he shot by the police?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: At the time there was nothing going on in the township.  The riot was in  Tubalethu which was under the Ciskei Government.  The Grahamstown police were in Ciskei.  When they were coming from that township they came to the township, the two boys were playing outside.
 Xolani went to the toilet, he then said that he heard
a gunshot and when he was coming out of the toilet, the police shot him.  The police then dragged him to the street.  When we went out we saw that Xolani was shot together with Mrs Siyona's child.  The police did not allow us to come near to them.
 The police who shot Xolani was Constable Beni.

MS MAYA: Were you told why Xolani was shot?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: The police called an ambulance and another police van came.  They did not want to take him, they called an ambulance and they ambulance is not allowed to take a dead body, but they wanted the ambulance to take his body because they did not want the people to know that there is a dead body.

MS MAYA: Who was saying this?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: The police was talking to the ambulance men to take the dead body together with Xolani.  Xolani's body was full of pellets, even in the back there were pellets.  He was bleeding.  Even in winter, even today in winter, he is bleeding.
 He was doing standard 8 in 1992, he is still doing standard 8 even today.

MS MAYA: How old was Xolani in 1992?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: He was 18 years old.

MS MAYA: Ma'am, you have told us sad stories.  Do you have a request to the Commission?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: I would like to finish off my story.  Xolani was admitted in the hospital, we would go and visit him and Xolani was guarded by the police.  He was under a police guard.  We wanted to know why, but the police would tell us that he was just ordered to guard him.
 When we went one day to visit him, he was not there,
they then transferred him to the police station hospital.  We asked the Doctor why they transferred him to the police station, they told us that there was a hospital in prison.

MS MAYA: Which hospital was this?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: It was the hospital in Fort Beaufort.

MS MAYA: Do you know that Doctor?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: It was Dr Logna.

MS MAYA: Why was he transferred to the hospital at the police station?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: They said because he was a prisoner.

MS MAYA: Was he accused of anything?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: They said that he stoned a hippo.

MS MAYA: Did he appear in court?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: The Organisation arranged for a Lawyer, they found Mr Tabata, then Mr Tabata said that he must be released from prison and he will go to court now and then.  The case was postponed all the time in 1992.  The lawyer did not go to court and in April, 27th April 1993, the Magistrate said that he is going to charge the Attorney because he does not attend the court proceedings.
 The police from Grahamstown came, there were four police, there were five police.  One of them shot Xolani, the other ones were witnesses.  They said that they did not know the police who shot my son.  They claimed that the person who was shot, was a schoolgoing child and I told them that Xolani was not from school at that time, so they said that they did not know Xolani.
 They were then found innocent.  It was then said that two people cannot toyi-toyi and riot by themselves.  That was the end of the case.

MS MAYA: Did you try to claim to the Government because of
this?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, we did not try to do that.

MS MAYA: Did you go to any Attorney?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, we couldn't afford an Attorney.

MS MAYA: Would you like to add something else Ma'am?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, there is nothing, but I have a wish.  I would like Constable Beni to see what to do because my child is retarded.  He cannot work.  I would like him to see what to do about him.

MS MAYA: Is he receiving any medical treatment?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: No, he spent six months in Santa hospital, even today he is not well.  I am trying to take him to Doctors.

MS MAYA: Do you have a request to the Commission Ma'am?

ZANYIWE SYLVIA KAMA: My request is that the Commission will see what to do for me.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am, I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Xundu?

REV XUNDU: I am asking this question to both of you because the situation is similar.  You said that the Councillors are the ones that were organising these attacks on people.  Is there - what is the situation between yourselves and the Councillors now?

NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA: Are you asking this question to both of us?  There is nothing between us, there is no conflict between the Councillors and us.

REV XUNDU: Did they come to you and apologised to you?

NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA: No, they did not come to us, but it was said that peace will be made between them and the ANC.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Mr Nohashe still around?

NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he still alive?

NOZIPHO EUNICE SIYONA: Yes, he is still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank both of you.  You have come to this Commission to tell us your tragic stories but we can see that you are strong mothers.
 You are heroes.  We have noted what you have said to us.  I want to inform you that in Adelaide there is a Doctor who sent a letter to us, he wants to send documents  and records to us of the people who were assaulted by the police.
 But unfortunately we couldn't meet him, we wanted him to present these documents here in this Grahamstown hearing but we hope that he is the one you have been referring to.
 Thank you, you may go back to your seats.