Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-12

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I want to point out that the minute South African signed the New Chemical Weapons Convention in '93, in January 93, and ratified it later on - the date escapes me for the moment, and ratification in itself then led to the implementation and the entry into force of that convention which took place on the 28th of April '97, that precluded South Africa from using CR in a conventional offensive situation.
So, the offensive capability that we had developed and the weaponisation that had been carried out and the delivery systems that were in existence, that had to be dismantled with regards to the application of CR in the battlefield.  And likewise in terms of that convention, the possession of CR had to be declared and South African has done exactly that, in terms of the New Convention.

MR VALLY: So, on the one hand the defensive capabilities, gas hoods, masks, procedures to deal with chemical attacks, on the other hand you say the capacity to retaliate, and I note the capacity to retaliation and you're referring to the weaponisation of CR gas there.  I want to refer you to TRC 111, and TRC 111 - I'll allow you to get it but I'll just read the heading of TRC 111 out to you in the meantime
"Memo to the Steyn Commission regarding alleged risky activities of SADF components"

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I'm sorry, I'm not getting it straight away.

MR VALLY: That's alright.  It was a document that was given to you I believe.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, no, I have it but I have some difficulty in getting it in front of me.

MR VALLY: It will be the second last document.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Right, I have it in front of me, thank you Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: I refer you to page A2.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Yes, thank you.

MR VALLY: Paragraph (d) IV, under the heading
"Seventh Medical Battalion"

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I've got it.

MR VALLY: It says
"Involvement in Chemical Attack on Frelimo"
You are aware that in January 1992 there was an alleged chemical attack on a unit of Frelimo close to the South African border.  You are probably also aware, in terms of evidence we have received, that one of the front companies, Delta G, was working on BZ.  You probably are also aware that a British expert from Porterdown who did a report on the attack on the Frelimo soldiers, claimed that there appeared to have been a chemical attack by BZ, a variant thereof or an analogue thereof.  Now I need to ask you an emphatic question, are you aware of a chemical attack on Frelimo troops close to the South African border in January 1992, carried out by elements of the South African Defence Force?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Mr Vally, I will give you just as an emphatic answer as your question is, the answer is no, but I would respectfully say that you should also read the reports of other investigations that were carried out in terms of this allegation and they are included in your bundle and we can deal with one and each and every one of them and we can read the conclusions of each of those investigations and then the truth might emerge far more clearly than the report of Porterdown that you are referring to.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of any other chemical attack whatsoever carried out by South African Forces?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, Sir, I'm not.

MR VALLY: Let's get back, and I'm trying to move a bit faster so if I go too fast please ask me to slow down.  If I understand it, you had what was called a Special Operations Group which were the medical personnel attached to the Special Forces.  It was then decided to have a separate medical unit attached to Special Forces, which went by the name of the 7th Medical Battalion which is part of the entire South African Medical Services.  Am I correct in referring to the 7th Battalion as being the Special Operations Group that was attached to Special Forces?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Mr Vally, I'm now very much tempted to refer to the TRC briefing that I've given you because the development of that battalion group is described in great detail, including what their role and functions were and how they were developed and so on.  I'm at a loss now how to deal with this.  I would very much like to deal with it in detail.

MR VALLY: Fine.  Well maybe if I can avoid that, pending the lunch break, was ...[intervention]

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, my instructions are that we won't object to the General referring to that part of the briefing.

MR VALLY: Yes, but I don't want too much detail, thank you Advocate Arendse.

UNKNOWN: Obviously if it's not relevant or necessary for Mr Vally's inquiry then   ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Arendse.

MR VALLY: Was there a battalion, 7th Medical Battalion I believe it is called?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: It is called 7th Medical Battalion Group Mr Vally.  Yes, there was.

MR VALLY: And who was the Officer Commanding of the 7th Medical Battalion Group?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: The first Officer Commanding was Lieutenant Colonel Basson.

MR VALLY: That's Doctor Wouter Basson?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Correct.

MR VALLY: And later Brigadier Basson?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: That's also correct.

MR VALLY: And it was the 7th Medical Battalion which was ultimately responsible for the front companies, more specifically Delta G and RRL?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, Sir, not at all.

MR VALLY: Fine.  Can you tell us who was responsible for that?  To whom were the front companies, specifically RRL and Delta G, accountable?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: You asked the question whether it was the 7th Medical Battalion to whom those companies were responsible, the answer to that is no.  The two companies had been established through the auspices of the project that was being run at the time and the Co-ordinating Management Committee of the project did the initial planning with the help of the Project Officer who was Colonel Basson at that time and it was approved by the Minister, that the companies could be erected.   The budgets of the companies were dealt with in an objective budget fashion and the Minister approved that and the personnel and the research that was conducted in the companies with planned by a Technical Work Committee which consisted of the Project Officer and those person that had been identified to be the Managing Directors of those companies.
 Each and every time the broad guidelines for the research were given, first by the Minister, then refined by the Co-ordinating Management Committee and then worked out in detail so that it could be translated into budgetary terms and then the companies operated.

MR VALLY: Well I need to know exactly who was responsible for what.  We seem to have got evidence which you are aware of that Doctor Wouter Basson was ultimately the responsible party for these two companies, now you are telling me that the directions first came from the Minister, then the Co-ordinating Committee.  Can you tell us who was on the Co-ordinating Committee?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Yes, the Co-ordinating Committee consisted of the Chief of the South African Defence Force ...[intervention]

MR VALLY: At the time?