Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-11

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I would not know what was actually meant by the writer.

MR NTSEBEZA: In the context of what I have indicated to have been the situation in the Western Cape, I am asking you now, not as the author of the document.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: And I am asking for an opinion.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Given that when this document was written, was sent, it was at the end of four, five days of attack.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: On a complex that was occupied by squatters.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: And squatters who - well it was the view, were impeding the progress in that area because that area could not be upgraded because there were those squatters, don't you consider that it would be a fair conclusion to say the situation that needed to be exploited was exactly the fact that people who had been regarded as hindrances to upgrading that area had been removed?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Removed?

MR NTSEBEZA: By the attack, they were displaced.  The Fathers who you had indicated earlier appear to have already been mobilised by the SADF against the Comrades.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: It seems to be like that.

MR NTSEBEZA: It seems to be like that.  Now who is Colonel A Moelig(?) who seems to have been ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Alright, he was an army colonel which acted at the time as a secretary for the Western Cape JMC.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Was that message, signal message actually sent by Colonel A Moelig?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: According to the stamp, according to the document, this form, the form is sent, here at the bottom you will see the drafters name, Colonel A Moelig, he was at least the drafter, yes, and it was addressed to the State Security Council.  They received it and it seems a bit indistinct of when they received it according to the date stamp here on top in the left-hand corner ...(intervention)

MR NTSEBEZA: Are you familiar with his signature?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Would you say it's his signature on the second page?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ntsebeza.

MR NTSEBEZA: Finally, there is also another document whose origin you may or may not be aware of.  I am sorry that I am made to understand by the investigation unit that this is a document that came during the course of these proceedings.  I would then ask that it should be....

CHAIRPERSON: It's quite a short document so we can give you two minutes or so to read it.  It's really very short, it's half a page.

ADV HIEMSTRA: Chairperson we received that document yesterday, we are aware of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh.

MR NTSEBEZA: Oh you did, thank you Advocate.  Now I am not particularly wanting you to - I don't know, it may well be that you do - would this be one of the documents you could have received?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I never saw this document before.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I received it yesterday as well.

MR NTSEBEZA: No, no, I am working on the basis of your earlier indication that there were some documents ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes, yes, but this one I never received.

MR NTSEBEZA: Oh yes, ja.  But it is also a top secret document.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: And it is from this region, from the Western Cape ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: JMC.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, and it was also to the Secretariat of the State Security Council in Pretoria.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Quite right.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now can you read two and three into the record.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Alright.
"To diffuse the situation around stayaway actions on the 16th of June a mass meeting of Witdoeke is planned where the message to go to work will be communicated to the masses.  This action will be a victory feast by the Witdoeke in the form of the slaughter of cattle.  The cost has not been finalised but it is estimated at about R3 000.  It would be appreciated if the necessary funds could be possibly made available for this.
 Finality will, however, not be reached before the 11th of June 1986 when we will be in contact with you again".
This is the last page.

MR NTSEBEZA: Right.  Now who are the drafters of this document?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: The Secretary of the Western Cape Joint Management Committee.

MR NTSEBEZA: It's Mr R P du Plessis?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Correct Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Do you know who he was, what he was?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: His rank at that time was a Commandant in the South African Army Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: So the army was already - and can you give the date of this document?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: The date of the document was the 9th of June 1986.

MR NTSEBEZA: And it seems to have been sent at about 15h00?  "Datum tyd group".

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: You see Sir can I, this document first of all the form which is printed is a Defence Force form, it's not a Police form, therefore I wouldn't know.

MR NTSEBEZA: You are not on trial Mr Vermeulen.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I understand so Sir.  But I am trying to be helpful, I am trying to explain to you.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes okay.  But is it so that this document seems to have been received by the State Security Council on the 9th of June 1986?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: That stamp indicates that.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: There's a stamp there on the top Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Ja, what do you make of that handwriting on the right where it says "afskrif", copy?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: HTSK.....

MR NTSEBEZA: Would that be STRATKOM?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: And then at the bottom is STRATKOM Sir, I think it is STRATKOM.

MR NTSEBEZA: Ja, in other words a copy of this was sent to STRATKOM, would that be saying ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes, that's what it says.

MR NTSEBEZA: That's what it says.  And you know the precedent action says the thing must be implemented "dadelik" .

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: "Dadelik" ja.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.  Now let's look at what was happening from what we know on the 9th of June 1986.  You will recall that that was the day on which an attack was mounted.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I believe so.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.  And this was an attack at which elements of the Defence Force and the Police had been specifically interdicted by a court of law from participating in an attack on or assisting an attack on any of the persons in the area which subsequently was attacked, you are aware of the court interdict at the time?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I am aware of a court interdict.

MR NTSEBEZA: Of a court interdict. Now if I understand the message here it seems to suggest that the secretary Mr du Plessis, who was a commandant in the army.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Quite right Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: It's suggesting that the manner in which to diffuse the situation around the stayaway actions on June the 16th is that a rally, a mass meeting of Witdoeke must be planned where the message to go to work will be communicated to the masses.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: But then it goes on to say that action will be a victory feast by Witdoeke in the form of the slaughter of cattle.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: The cost has not been finalised but it is estimated to be about R3 000 and this letter seems to be seeking, soliciting nature,
"It will be appreciated if the necessary funds could possibly be made available for this.   Finality will, however, not be reached before June 11 1986 when we will be in contact with you again".

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.