Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

CHAIRPERSON: You have said here that it was a party for members of the National Party who were legitimate targets.  Their party at the Golf Club was the legitimate target, that's the party for members of the National Party, that was your - you have said yourself, and please don't keep evading, you have said yourself that was the legitimate target.  We have learned that there was not a party there for members of the National Party so the target you hit was not the legitimate target that you write of in your application so doesn't that indicate that all your information was incorrect?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Let us just try and re-examine what you have written here -  "As the National Party Government was the architect of our oppression and their supporters approving of it's policy, their party at the Golf Club was a legitimate target as the members of the National Party will realise that the policies" whatever, whatever, whatever.  Now of primary concern here is their presence.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't you listen to the evidence?  We have heard from the information we've got that the people you attacked and killed were senior citizens having a wine tasting.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No, they did not say necessarily ....[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Sorry Mr Mbandazayo, please don't keep whispering to the witness while he's trying to testify, really it's very distracting.

CHAIRPERSON: And it is improper.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I'm sorry for that I was just not necessary saying to him I was just pointing to him, I didn't want to stop him answering, just to point to him, I'm sorry.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja, what was here was the presence of the National Party at the party and therefore we expected that people, his friends, the protagonists of the system would gather around on such an occasion...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: But we have accepted it that you were wrong, but you won't admit, that's your trouble, you won't admit that the information you got was wrong and it was not a Nationalist Party party.  You may have expected it to be, I'm not arguing with you about that.  What we are arguing about is what actually happened.  It was not a Nationalist Party party but you for some reason don't want to accept that you might have just been mistaken - the information you got was wrong.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No, no, no.  I think what is disturbing you is that their party does not refer to the National Party.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh please.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: What are you talking about the National Party, the presence in the location of that nature?

CHAIRPERSON: Their supporters approving of it's policy, their party at the Golf Club, you say that's not Nationalist Party?  Are you now trying to change your version?  A few moments ago you were saying it was the Nationalist Party and their presence there justified the attack.  Now you're saying it doesn't mean that, are you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Their presence justified the attack.  The presence of the National Party members.
ADV. SANDI: Mr Xundu, before you went to this Golf Club did you know whether Mr Radie, a member of the National Party was going to be there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.
ADV. SANDI: Now when you talk about supporters are you talking about people supporting the National Party?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I'm talking about people supporting the government.  Not this government, the government of the day.
ADV. SANDI: That was the National Party government?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Well you see that's not what it says at page 10 of your application which is the fundamental basis upon which you start.  It says "we were advised that the National Party and it's supporters were going to have a party at the Golf Club and that the members of parliament, Mr Radie, would be there.  So that's what your own papers say but look, I don't know, I think we've flogged this dead horse.

CHAIRPERSON: Spent enough time.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: I'll leave that point then Mr Chairman.  I just want to say to you that - I want to confirm to you - I want to put to you the question that you now realise or should now realise that the party was, one, for elderly people gathered at a pre-Christmas function for social gathering.  By coincidence Mr Radie that afternoon had sponsored personally a Golf Tournament.  That evening he stayed on because his wife, Pam, is an excellent musician and she was playing the piano for the people at the party.  That's how it came about that Mr Radie and his wife were at that wine tasting festival.  Can you dispute that in any way?  You can't, thank you.
	The next thing I want to come to is your somewhat extraordinary story about your escape after this attack on elderly people which caused so much harm and damage.  I want to say straight away that I sympathise very much with your cause to a certain extent but I don't like some things that has happened in this particular occasion but still, the point is that when you left the party, you told us you all got in the white golf and I think if I remember correctly, you drove to Alice, you drove through a roadblock, is that right?

MR PRIOR: Sorry, you're getting confused Mr Stanford, that happened a day or so later when they decided to dispose of the vehicle.

CHAIRPERSON: That was on the Tuesday.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: On Tuesday, my apologies Mr Chairman.  So when you decided to dispose of the vehicle on the Tuesday, it was three days after the attack, you went through a ..[inaudible] or structured roadblock in Alice, that's right?

CHARLES ALFRED ZEELIE: Ja when we were trying to dispose the car.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: That's what you said isn't it?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: From there you took the Fort Beaufort Road?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: What?

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: From there you went to Fort Beaufort?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: From there you took the road to Grahamstown?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Then you saw you were being followed?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: And the car behind you was about five kilometres behind you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: You then stopped your car, drove it off the road, got some petrol out of the car and set the car alight, you then ran away.  That's what your story is?

CHAIRPERSON: No they the Rover with them, they had a second car.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: My apologies.  Did you then get in the Rover and drive away?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: And did the other car chase you, the police car which was about four minutes behind you, did it make no attempt to try and catch you up, seeing a car burning on the left hand side of the road, I assume?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Are you serious?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Well, I must confess that the police can't be nearly as efficient as you make them out to be.
ADV. SANDI: Didn't you say Mr Xundu, didn't you say the police vehicle that was chasing after you was about five kilometres away from the point where you were?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: When you reported the result of your successful attack on these unfortunate people having a party at the Golf Club, when you reported on the success of your attack on the unfortunate people at the Golf Club to your head office or your seniors was your report - or your report indicated a successful operation?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes of course.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: And for that you were duly praised?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes of course.