Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-16

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: APLA was not supported by organisations, we were struggling. The truck therefore was going to be used for APLA activities to deliver comrades during operations and other matters that would benefit the APLA. The truck therefore was going to be used in such a manner.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman I proceed to paragraph 8. "I was always reporting to comrade Thanduxolo (...intervention)

ADV SANDI: I am sorry Mr Mbandazayo can I just ask one or two questions, taking you a step back? You were told to bring Mr Meyers to Thanduxolo. Where were you going to get Mr Thanduxolo when you bring Mr Meyers?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: There is a place that we had selected where we were going to meet.

ADV SANDI: How were you supposed to take him there?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Meyers?

ADV SANDI: Yes by what mode of transport? How were you supposed to take him there?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: We were going to use his own transport.

ADV SANDI: The same transport, the truck?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: "I was always reporting to comrade Thanduxolo about the progress in my reconnaissance of the route of this farmer." Can you tell the Committee how long did it take you to establish the times and the days this farmer was coming to Transkei and selling and milk?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: The reconnaissance that I made took plus, minus 2 weeks. I was trying to see which times he goes to Transkei, which areas stops at. That is what I did. When I was satisfied I gave Thanduxolo a report.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you also further tell the Committee who decided about the date of the attack?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Comrade Thanduxolo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: "On the 27th of August 1993 he gave me a .38 and gave comrade Zama a home-made gun." It should be Mr Chairman, rifle. It seems it was a home-made rifle. "And transported us to the rural area where the truck was and dropped us there." Can you explain to the Committee how did this happen? Taking the Committee step by step on the morning of this attack. When you were taken by Thanduxolo, given firearms and you went to be dropped there. Tell the Committee?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Thanduxolo picked me up. I stayed in Nthogane in Umtata. Thanduxolo picked me up on the 27th August 1993. After I had already reported the availability of the target. Thanduxolo took me saying that I have to meet a certain comrade. He first asked how many people would be needed for the operation. I then said two people would be enough. I then told him that I would point out what I needed too and the second person would assist me.
	On the 27th therefore Thanduxolo went to pick up Zama. He briefed me about the unit command. I have forgotten which village he took us to. I do not know the area very well, the Transkei. He then took us to a certain rural area where milk was being sold.

MR MBANDAZAYO: When you arrived at the area you said that you were dropped by Thanduxolo, what did he do himself, Thanduxolo?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: He told us about the place where we were going to meet. He said that we were going to meet near Mbashe. We were going to take Meyers, deliver him to Thanduxolo. Thanduxolo was using a Toyota. After we picked up this white man we were going to take him to Mbashe and Mbashe was then, Thanduxolo was then going to take over from Mbashe.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Paragraph 10 Mr Chairman.
"The instructions were not to kill the farmer but to bring him to Thanduxolo who told me that they want him for interrogation before dealing with him. But if we were to kill if we see that we can be in danger."
Can you explain that to the Committee?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: As the orders stipulated that we were not to kill him, however if he did resist then we would have to kill him in defence. That is what happened. He resisted and unfortunately they both died.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Let's go to paragraph 11 so that you encompass the whole of your answer with paragraph 11.
"I went to passenger's side and pointed the firearm to the white man and asked where the firearm is. Instead of telling me where the firearm is, I saw him diving and I thought that he was reaching for a firearm and I shot at him and I missed him and shot his daughter in the face. And I also heard a shot on the other side of the truck. And Zama had shot the farmer before he saw him coming out of the truck. He thought that he was the person who was shooting".

MR MBANDAZAYO: Take the Committee through the whole incident. When you arrived there at the truck and take it step by step until eventually shooting of the daughter of Mike Meyers?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: When we got there I had a .38 special rifle.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry a .38 special what?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: A revolver.

MR MBANDAZAYO: May I continue?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I had a .38 revolver and I went to the passenger's side. When I got there I said to Zama he must go and sit behind and pretend as if he was buying milk. I would then do the job myself. I drew the pistol at this white man. I demanded that he give us his weapon. As I was speaking to him he made a certain movement. I think he was going towards his cabinhole. I thought that he was taking his weapon. I shot. I missed him. He ran away. And Donne then cried out. I heard a noise as he was getting out of the car and he had been shot and he fell on the ground. The people around the area were being shocked. We then got into the car and drove off.

CHAIRPERSON: Who got out of the car and fell to the ground? You have said now somebody, you heard Donne cry out, he got out of the car and fell to the ground.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: What happened is. I am going to repeat this. I got onto the passenger side. I pointed a gun at Mike Meyers. Whilst I was pointing at him I demanded that he give us his pistol. He tried to reach to his cabinhole. I thought that he was taking his weapon and was defending himself. This happened very quickly. I shot, I missed him and the bullet got his daughter. He got out of the car. Whilst he was out there was a sound. Mean while he was being shot by my comrade. I hope that is clear.

CHAIRPERSON: Who got out of the car? Mr Meyers?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Mr Meyers.

CHAIRPERSON: So he was in the car when you asked him for the gun, was he sitting in the car?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct, he was in the car.

CHAIRPERSON: Passenger side?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: No on the driver's side. My Meyers was driving. He was on the driver's seat.

CHAIRPERSON: You who wanted to talk to him went round to the passenger side. Is that what you telling us?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And when did he fall out of the car or get out of the car?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Sorry?

CHAIRPERSON: When did he get out of the car, after you had shot?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: After I had shot.

ADV GCABASHE: Just to finish it off, where was Donne at that point? You were at the passenger's side.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Donne was on the passenger's seat.

MR LAX: And where do you say you shot her? You said you missed Mr Meyers but you shot her.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Around the face. (As the applicant is indicating.) I am not sure exactly where on the face, but around the facial area.

CHAIRPERSON: The front of the face?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes.

MR LAX: So how could you have missed him and shot her if he was in driver's seat and she was in the passenger seat closest to you?  You would her before you could have hit him?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I had not gone there to shoot. I had gone to capture the people. I was just defending myself. I thought he was reaching out for a gun. Unfortunately I missed him. Donne was nearest to me. She was also moving at that time. That is how she got shot. My aim was not to go there and kill. If that was so I would have killed Mike Meyers first and then Donne.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you sure of what you are telling us?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes I am positive.