Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-08-04

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I apologise for the delay but there were certain matters that had to be discussed which sort of eased the pressure on the hearing.  Mr Chairman it was mentioned yesterday that there possible two persons that might join the proceedings, a Mr Dumakude and Mr Dube.  Mr Eric van den Berg, the attorney, was here this morning and has already met with the Committee and indicated that he needed some time to determine his position and would let us know by lunchtime.  In the circumstances that they're not officially linked to this particular hearing at this stage, I don't want to waste any further time, may I with the leave of the Committee call the victims at this time?  They have been fully appraised of the situation and are agreeable to give evidence at this juncture.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And as I understand it you've also mentioned it to Mr du Plessis, he's quite happy that we proceed on this basis?

ADV PRIOR: Yes Mr Chairman.  Before I call - sorry.

MR LANDMAN: Yes we have no objection to this procedure being followed.  Mr Chairman, may I then just add something else in regard to the additional information which the Committee sought yesterday and that was the distance between that street and the Checkers in Hillbrow.  The street itself doesn't exist any more so I measured from the street above it and it's just under two kilometres, 1.9 kilometres.

ADV PRIOR: I accept that Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We'd like to record our thanks to you for having taken the trouble to do it.  I trust you didn't walk the distance as well?

MR LANDMAN: I can assure you I didn't Mr Chairman.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, one other matter before I call Mrs Klukas is that we have the original bundle of photographs.  I have placed that - I have taken the liberty of placing it before you Mr Chairman.  The bundle which has the open sketch plan and if one looks at the first photograph.  Mr Chairman, those photographs have been reproduced in the bundle before the Committee from pages 35 onwards.  One has a far clearer picture of Point A in relation to the road which I understand as Park North - North Park Road which is the road immediately before the Ellis Park Stadium and one needn't or unfortunately we don't have a distance, exact distance in the key to the photographs but judging solely by the eye, one does not want to argue metres, my learned friend and I, Mr Landman, has agreed that the facts speak for themselves.  I mean the picture speaks for itself.  If one looks at photograph 2 one can see in the foreground to the right a gate.  It would seem that that gate also forms part of the Ellis Park premises.  The second photograph, it's one of these fences, a fenced gate.

CHAIRPERSON: Light grey, top corner?

ADV PRIOR: Yes.  That is part of the premises of Ellis Park.

CHAIRPERSON: I understood from the evidence we heard yesterday that the road in which they parked had a block in it, that it was a dead end road?

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chairman, I don't have a recollection of that.  You will recall there was reference to there being police and traffic officers at one end of the road if I'm not mistaken.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, the position is and one doesn't want to give evidence but I think it's virtually common cause, that road Park North, that is the road that runs past the Ellis Park, on a rugby day would be cordoned off.  That would avoid, they sought to avoid congestion by traffic so that road immediately there would be a barrier of sort and people were not allowed to park in that space.  I do have a witness, he's actually a member or friend of Mrs Klukas who actually went to Ellis Park that evening after the bomb.  If necessary - but I haven't precognised him specifically on this aspect but he indicated that there were, there was a cordon of sorts at the rugby match which precluded vehicles moving up and down Park North Road.

CHAIRPERSON: I remember some story, he said there was an old house in a short street, besides that was a quiet place.  I may have misunderstood short street as meaning a dead end street whereas he merely meant it was a short street between two blocks.

MR LANDMAN: Well Mr Chairman the other observation one can make is that it does form a T-junction with Upper North Road I think it's called, so that might be what was understood.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] the only photograph you wish us to refer to, 1 and 2?

ADV PRIOR: Yes but I would like the Committee to have cognisance of all the photographs in so far as they are the originals of the photographs represented in the bundles, the bundle put up to you because it indicates the damage caused in Upper Meyer Street, that was where the bomb exploded and in so far as the photocopies put up to the Committee are unclear, then I would ask the Committee to have reference to the original photographs.

CHAIRPERSON: Are those photographs going to remain available to us?

ADV PRIOR: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Well we can do that later, we don't need to do that now.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I call Mrs Klukas.  Mr Chairman I have taken the liberty of taking copies of the statement Mrs Klukas wants to read out.   Can I distribute that?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you calling her as a witness or giving her the opportunity to make a statement?

ADV PRIOR: Yes.  I'd like her to give her statement under oath.

MRS KLUKAS: (sworn states)

ADV PRIOR: Mrs Klukas, is it correct that during 1998 you were married to your husband Mr Clive Klukas?

MRS KLUKAS: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: And is it correct on the day that the bomb exploded at the Ellis Park or near the Ellis Park Rugby Stadium in Johannesburg he had attended that rugby match?  I understand it was Transvaal versus the Free State?

MRS KLUKAS: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: And is it also correct that he was in the company of a Mr Marais, the other deceased in the matter?

MRS KLUKAS: He was.

ADV PRIOR: Would you please read out the statement that you have prepared for the Committee please and take your time in presenting your statement?