Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: We have a transcript I think that will be the records, but what I heard
that is I fired it was clear that he wasn't dead, but I mean I - the transcript is there, what I mean is to make - I want to be clear from the witness that what he actually meant was that he wasn't down - if it is this - is that what he said.

MR STERRENBERG: I think I clearly said he hadn't gone down yet and it would appear as if  my shots did not have the desired effect ja.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you.

MR STERRENBERG: I didn't speak about dead.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And about the planning of the intention - the stated intention what you report is the stated intention of preventing the combat and the capture of this men - that seems to contrast quite dramatically the events as they unfolded on that day.
 Based on what we have - the information we have about the infiltration of this group - this group of men - it seems to me that their movements were known by the police - there were men - your informers - the informers that you yourself knew about had been planted at where ever it was that they state - but still you waited you and your team waited until the day of the operation to capture them.
 Why do you think you had to wait until the day - the 3rd of March rather than capture them where they operated from given that you had informers for about a month.

MR STERRENBERG: Your Worship - sir in respect I think that we weren't privy to all the information that was available - our briefing was just regarding the attack on the police vehicle.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you didn't know that the informers that you were told to watch out for had been with this men for a much longer period than was - than you were told.

MR STERRENBERG: No I wasn't aware of that Your Worship.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you only knew that these men - this was - you were going to surprise them.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: They did not - the last question I want to ask relates to your personal experience of the event - you mentioned earlier on that you were in shock and you mentioned to the chair as well that it was quite a traumatic event.
 What were your activities of the day of the 3rd of March following the shoot-out's in Guguletu.

MR STERRENBERG: Your Worship if I can recall correctly I were - on returning home I was unable  to sleep and for days after that as well  I was unable to sleep properly.  I still have problems sleeping at night and have been affected by this incident.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Did you ever seek professional help?

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: How did you handle this kind of experiences when you were in Oshakati?

MR STERRENBERG: In Oshakati I was never exposed to experiences of this nature - as I say I was there on logistical support so I was never really an operative in the field.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Advocate Potgieter?

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson - perhaps just round off  the issue that we have been discussing you see as you know we have to look at this case taking into account the perspective that has been brought to bear on this - to the effect that what was happening was that  people were being executed so you see I needed to hear you taking that into account on this scene where you  shoot the persone three times - three times through the head - and one has got to take into account the perspective of an execution which has been brought into this - this whole thing and decide how that in fact bears on your explanation of why you saw fit to shoot a person three times through the head at short distance under those circumstances.
 So I thought I must just explain to you what - where this is coming from and what all the angles are that we need to look at as a Commission - insofar as this case is concerned.

MR STERRENBERG: Sir I do understand that the proceedings of this Commission and what it's briefings is and I can assure you from my side I acted as a police officer in defence not only of myself but of innocent civilians in that area and my brief was never to execute people but to arrest them and in that split second that I had to decide on what action to take - for me at that stage that was the most appropriate action.

ADV POTGIETER: And then there is one other issue that I would have like to have to raise you - I - and you were asked by my colleagues about your state of mind of this terrible incident.  And you were saying you couldn't sleep and you had to go home and so on, but I - I can't understand why you were - why it was necessary for you to be photographed with the nerves smile next to the body - why was it necessary.

MR STERRENBERG: Sir that question one would have to put to the photographer who saw fit to take photographs at the scene that day.  I don't know for what reason - photographers have their own agenda at times.

ADV POTGIETER: No but you see you are - you are almost posing with a nervous smile as you put it - next to this body lying on the ground I mean for what conceivable reason would that be?

MR STERRENBERG: I don't know sir, I would - it was never my intention to pose with the body it's not my intention to pose for any photograph and why he took that photograph I don't  know.

ADV POTGIETER: I am just - I am just trying to get some assistance I mean can you think of any conceivable reason why it was necessary for this photograph to have been taken?

MR STERRENBERG: None whatsoever sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I mean it's totally - it's not normal police sort of procedure to my mind.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct Your Worship and as I've say I have got no idea why that photographer took the photograph sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I mean it's almost - it is open - let me put it this way - it's open to the interpretation it's almost like a trophy.

MR STERRENBERG: I am sure sir and that's the first time I have ever seen that photograph.

ADV POTGIETER: And we know that from subsequent testimony that some people were paid R1,000-00 a head for each one of these people that were killed - some people got R7,000-00 - kopgeld.

MR STERRENBERG: If that was the case sir - somebody hasn't paid me yet.  I am afraid I don't know about that - that simulation - I was never offered anything I was merely there as a policeman - in actual fact I didn't even get paid overtime for the work that I did  - and it was overtime that we worked because this wasn't part of our normal  duty - we were actually called out after hours.

ADV POTGIETER: Are you sure this was a nervous smile?

MR STERRENBERG: I can guarantee you it was a nervous smile sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Was this not a boastful - the act of somebody who - who is boasting about  the success of this operation that he was involved in.

MR STERRENBERG: Sir I have never boasted about anything of this nature and I regard it in extinguish serious light.  As I have said I don't know why that photographer took that photograph or even who the photographer was.  I have been photographed in many positions in any event which I had no control over.

ADV POTGIETER: Why didn't you refuse to take this photograph.  I mean it's open to so many negative  interpretations.

MR STERRENBERG: Sir as I said I wasn't even aware the photograph was being taken.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you not aware that the photograph was being taken.

MR STERRENBERG: Not at all sir.  I wasn't even aware that, that photograph was taken sir.

ADV POTGIETER: But you - but you taking - you looking directly at the photographer.

MR STERRENBERG: It's a possibility I wasn't aware of it sir - as I said and that's the first time that I've ever seen that photograph.

ADV POTGIETER: You mean you could have been looking directly at the photographer but you are not aware that he is taking a photo of you.

MR STERRENBERG: I could have been speaking  to somebody else in the immediate vicinity there.