Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

NICODEMUS SONO: I went to her personally to meet with her for this purpose because by then I did not know where Peter was because Sepo was arrested, then I did not know where Peter was, and that day she said to me, [Tape Side B ends] after you have gone to the police let me know and call me, I'll come to your house because it's dangerous for you coming to my place.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  And did you indeed go and see the police?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes I did went to see the police.

MR UNTERHALTER: And what happened?

NICODEMUS SONO: When I got to the police they asked me about Peter, they asked me about Sepo, and they asked me about myself, which I tell them and I played stupid by saying I don't know where Sepo and Peter come from, and I only know Sepo - er, Peter as my cousin and he comes from outside Pretoria, the place is called Ramapodi, it's where he comes from.  Then I never mentioned anything that I know that these guys come from outside the borders and they were trained cadres of MK.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  Now if I could take you to the events of November 1988 and in particular what your son Lolo was doing with the cadres who were together with Sepo and were working for MK at the time. Can you tell the Commission of Lolo's efforts to contact Peter?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes. In 1988, well, Peter was not with us because he ran away for the police.  I don't know how he knew that Sepo was arrested.  So Mrs Mandela came to my house, it was on a Sunday, she came and told me that she's going to arrange a place to stay for Peter, and me and her spoke into my bedroom because she was brought by the kombi, dropped her off at my gate, and I collected her from my gate into my house and we spoke.

MR UNTERHALTER: Could you just describe that kombi for us?

NICODEMUS SONO: It was a blue kombi with a white - a two-tone kombi, blue and white, it was a Volkswagen kombi.

MR UNTERHALTER: And who drove that kombi?

NICODEMUS SONO: The guy by the name of Michael Siakamela, he was driving that kombi by that time.

MR UNTERHALTER: I see. Well you were telling us of a conversation you had with Mrs Mandela in your house on that day, could you continue?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes. That was before 13 November '88 and she said to me she will look for a place for Peter and then I must be careful of my movements.  That's all what she advised me of when she went away.  When she went outside, the kombi came, she got into the kombi and off it went with her alone.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now did Lolo try to make contact with Peter?

NICODEMUS SONO: Well, that has happened and I was not aware because Peter used to phone next door where there was a telephone, asking to speak to Lolo, and Lolo did not know where Peter was.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

NICODEMUS SONO: But he always phoned next door and he requested to speak to Lolo.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  Now what do you know of Lolo's making contact with Peter?

NICODEMUS SONO: Lolo making contact with Peter, is that the boy next door told me that Peter is phoning Lolo all the time, it's all what I knew, but by then Sepo was in and it was only Peter who I did not know where he is, and Lolo wanted to speak to him, Peter wanted to speak to Lolo, but Lolo did not know where he was.
 Until then November 1, I went to the Transkei on business. I came back on the 10th, it was early hours of the morning and I met Lolo at home, it was round about eight, nine o'clock.  He again gave me two notices that were from the police.  The one read that I must come to Protea police, the other one was for him to come to Protea police.  And he said to me, Dad, the police are looking for you and  me.  Then I said to him so, let's go, not a problem.  But on the way he started telling me that Peter is been shot dead at Mzimthlope and he was there, he witnessed the whole thing -

MR UNTERHALTER: (intervention) Yes, could you just tell us in a little more detail what Lolo told you of what had happened that had led to the death of Peter?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes.  When I asked him that what happened, he said to me, on Monday when the police came he and Siboniso Shabalala took those notes and they went to Mrs Mandela's house to show her that the police are looking for them, and he said to me what Mrs Mandela did, took those notes and tore them up and said this is rubbish, don't go there.  So that Monday and the Tuesday they never slept at home or anywhere else but they went to Siboniso's aunt in Mufulo, so the Wednesday they again went to Mrs Mandela, according to him when they got there in the morning they spoke to Mrs Mandela, they wanted to see Frans, and Mrs Mandela herself delegated her driver to take them to Mzimhlope where Frans was.

MR UNTERHALTER: In whose house was Frans being accommodated?

NICODEMUS SONO: That was Jerry Richardson's house, that's where Frans was.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

NICODEMUS SONO: And he said to me when he got there he quickly went at the gate, Frans met them and they gave him the cigarettes that he has asked them to bring and he quickly said to them, don't be here, don't stop here, go away, there's going to be trouble because Lolo said to me there was an helicopter hovering above Jerry Richardson's house.  Then Frans chased away Lolo and Siboniso, but he said to me they never went away, they just hid themself next to the shop and they witnessed everything that has happened that day.

MR UNTERHALTER: And what did in fact happen that day?

NICODEMUS SONO: He told me that Frans was shot, he was with another comrade that I did not know his name, he was also shot, and one policeman was also shot dead.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

NICODEMUS SONO: We were on our way to Protea.  When we got to Protea police station we met Captain Kleynhans. Captain Kleynhans said to me, not Captain Kleynhans, I am sorry, that's Captain Potgieter, he said to me he cannot see us today because they are preparing to bury the policeman that was shot at Richardson's house.  If I am not mistaken it's Sergeant Pretorius.  Before I went out, he said to me come to my office.  He showed me photos of Frans and this other comrade. I could only identify Frans, and said this is my relative, Frans.  He said do me a favour, go and tell his parents that Frans has been shot dead.  That was on the Thursday the 10th.  Then indeed I went away and I did what he had asked me to do.

MR UNTERHALTER: Tell me, Mr Sono, why did you go to the police in the light of what your son had told you of what had happened on the 9th of November?

NICODEMUS SONO: It would have been more dangerous for me if the police request me to come and I don't go.  I had to go because they wanted to see me with Lolo.  When they postponed the appointment they asked - the postponed appointment for Monday the 14th, that we must be there very early in the morning, before eight o'clock, and we agreed on that.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

NICODEMUS SONO: So me and Lolo went back home.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  Now what happened over that weekend, Mr Sono?

NICODEMUS SONO: Over that weekend on Sunday the 13th I went to visit my friends and relatives in Krugersdorp, Kagiso, and I came back late in the evening.  The time was around about ten to eight when I drove into my yard and Michael Siyagamela, who was then Mrs Mandela's driver, he called me from outside, he came behind me, said, sorry, there is somebody that wants to see you outside.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

NICODEMUS SONO: Indeed I walked with him.  When we got to my gate, the blue kombi was parked a few houses from my street and I went with him to the kombi.  When we got to the kombi, he took the driver's seat and I opened the slide door, these guys who were here moved for me, I got a seat there, Lolo and other young men were at the back of the kombi and Lolo was in the middle.  There were two guys having their hands like that to him

MR UNTERHALTER: (Intervention) Just describe it for us.