Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

CHAIRPERSON: Are you putting to this witness that he was content with the salary that he was receiving with the South African - yes?
The question is as to whether your salary from the police force was satisfactory to you?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it was satisfactory to me.

MR DUKADA: Thank you Mr Chairman. And you had no interest of any other thing in the South African Police force?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Interest?

MR DUKADA: Yes alright. The question may be vague to you. You had no interest in South African politics. All what you were satisfied with was the salary you were receiving in the police force?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes to me that was the case. I just wanted to work for myself. That is what I wanted.

MR DUKADA: And you didn't join any political organisation or didn't have any interest in any other political discussions which were going on in the South African Police force?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I could not.

CHAIRPERSON: When you returned from exile I gather that you wandered to the SAP offices in Ermelo?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the purpose of going to the police in Ermelo?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I was tired and I was some one wanted I knew.

CHAIRPERSON: So you went there to surrender yourself is that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

MR DUKADA: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Shabalala are you on good terms with Mr Dandala?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I have no problem with him. I think we are on good terms.

MR DUKADA: And Mr de Kock?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Even with him I have no problems with him.

MR DUKADA: Now when you joined Vlakplaas did you undergo any special training?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No there was no training.

MR DUKADA: And you were receiving instructions time and again?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

MR DUKADA: And as I understood your evidence yesterday Vlakplaas was a secret unit within the South African Police force.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

MR DUKADA: And your identity as well as your activities as a unit were not supposed to be exposed to the public?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

MR DUKADA: And when you went to Nxala to arrest Ndondo on that day you became exposed to the public during the shooting. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we were very public. The public could see us yes.

MR DUKADA: And you even went to the police station to make a statement is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we did. At the police station to make a statement I did not go into the police station but we did go to the police station. As I say as to I am not certain whether it was a police station or not. We did go there. But as to whether a statement was made or not I do not know.

MR DUKADA: But what I am saying ultimately you became exposed because you made statements and your names became known to the people. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Your question?

MR DUKADA: The question is; after you had made statements to the police at Nxala it doesn't matter when, your identity became exposed. Is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't understand him to say that he made a statement to the police at Nxala. Perhaps you should first canvas that. Did you make a statement?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I never made a statement.

MR DUKADA: Now Mr Shabalala I come back to that very aspect because my impression from the cross-examination by Mr Hugo you said when the statement was referred to you: "This is not the statement I made at Nxala." But I will pass that at this stage. The Vlakplaas activities were highly secretive as you indicated. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: And the reason why the Vlakplaas activities were highly secretive is because some of the things you were doing were unlawful. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I don't know that.

MR DUKADA: What I am saying is that you were not following the ordinary police procedures the way you were functioning?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No we used the ordinary police procedure.

MR DUKADA: But now in your application for amnesty, Exhibit E you are talking about abduction of Ndondo. Let us read it to you paragraph 10a of Exhibit E. You say Batandwa Ndondo - first have the statement before you Mr Shabalala so that you have a good memory. You say that Batandwa Ndondo was suspected of being an ANC terrorist. He was to be abducted.

CHAIRPERSON: That is Exhibit E, is that right? Yes indeed.

MR DUKADA: That is correct Mr Chairman. Let us read it back to you again before the interpretation is delivered to you. 10a you say
" Batandwa Ndondo was suspected of being an ANC terrorist. He was to be abducted and brought back to the Republic of South Africa for interrogation and possible recruitment as an askaris."
 Do you see that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I see it.

MR DUKADA: Here you are talking about abduction not an arrest which would be carried out by an ordinary policeman.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: Now it goes back to the earlier point Mr Shabalala that after having killed a person who was defenceless you were given R500. It shows that your activities at Vlakplaas were unlawful. Do you agree with me?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The fact that he was given R500 shows that his activities were unlawful.

MR DUKADA: That is what I am putting here to the witness Mr Chairperson.

MR DUKADA: So you were aware about certain unlawful activities which were taking place at Vlakplaas?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't have any knowledge.

MR DUKADA: Was this incident the first one to be known to you as a one off one?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I mean this was the first incident I got to know about.

MR DUKADA: Right. Can you turn to page 71 of the bundle? Mr Chairman it is this last sentence. I will just give the English versions of the Afrikaans statement.
	You say there: -
"During 1985 I cannot remember the precise date Captain Eugene de Kock gave my group an order to operate in Transkei. Our instructions were anti-terrorism and to search for unlicensed firearms and vehicles."
Do you see that? Do you agree with me that, that is what you said in your statement?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I agree with that.

MR DUKADA: Can you tell the Committee who composed this group which went to Transkei?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I may not remember others but others I can and may be able to give their names. Myself, Captain Mos, Noma Shosha, Beki, James.

CHAIRPERSON: Beki?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Beki yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What was his surname?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I do not know their surnames. James, Dubase is the surname, I do not know his name. That is the group of names I can remember.

MR DUKADA: Now if you can again turn to page 49 of the bundle? There at paragraph 30 you say
"A large contingent of Vlakplaas members went down to the Transkei amongst others Captain du Plessis, a person known to be as Adjutant Snor, Captain Mos, a female askaris by the name of Shosha, myself and several other askaris."
Are you referring to the same incident?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes. When we came this way but when we had to go one kombi went with others and the other leaving with others.

MR DUKADA: Yes Sir but you were going to Transkei to conduct operations there.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we were coming this way. We came this way.

MR DUKADA: Was it something common to leave Vlakplaas and come down to Transkei and conduct operations?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No it was not common. It was the first time for us to come this way to come and work. We usually work that other side.

MR DUKADA: Are you saying that in 1985 as a Vlakplaas unit it was your first occasion to come and operate in Transkei?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes to me it was the first time to come this side.

MR DUKADA: And your operation became known to members of the security branch generally before you could even arrive in Transkei. Is that correct?