Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-12

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: He told me that he hoped that the attacks which were planned for the week before the Day of the Vow, that it would create a chain reaction and then when the nation got together on the Day of the Vow, the great amount of people would be there, who would then continue with the revolution.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, did you know Japie Oelofse?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Japie Oelofse was known to me, I thought a great deal of him, I respected him as a General.  I was also aware of the fact that he was busy working really hard at the revolution.  I had great regard for him.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you aware that Japie Oelofse was the Commanding General of the applicants who are now in front of the Committee?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct Chairperson, I was aware of that.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, were there any talk at any stage about road blocks which had to be set up and that weapons had to be obtained?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Mr Terreblanche asked me how well is my men armed and I told him that several of my men did not have arms and he said then you go and have road blocks, and you take weapons.
	He also warned me and said that he has a good relationship with Inkatha, the IFP and also with Botswana and that we must be careful to make sure that we only take the weapons of ANC people.

MR PRINSLOO: If you say Botswana, do you mean ...

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Sorry, I mean Bophuthatswana.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you.  Those weapons which would be obtained in that fashion, how would they be used?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The weapons we would have obtained, we needed them for the revolution, for the final blow, for the final battle and to use it for that purpose.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you have discussions with Oelofse during the activities of the AWB?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, I had a discussion with Oelofse at one stage.  Oelofse I think it was the end of November, he asked me because I stayed in the mine vicinity, the Welkom Mine vicinity, if I could not arrange with my people in order to get cyanide which he wanted.  I told him that I would see what I could do, but I never got around to it.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, you also heard with regards to this behaviour on the 12th of December and also that the fact that these applicants were arrested on the 6th of January, did you hear about that?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is completely correct Chairperson.  Afterwards I spoke to Terreblanche and Terreblanche told me, he said that it was some of his best men who were caught.

MR PRINSLOO: Terreblanche, did he turn his back on these people at that stage, or what was the position?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Terreblanche told me that even though they were very good men, it would be very bad for the AWB if he associated with them in public Chairperson.
	He also said that as far as possible, we must distance ourselves from these people and that he felt sorry about that, but that it was war and that is unfortunately the situation.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, in February 1994 you were arrested by the South African Police and you were detained according to Section 29 of the Law of Internal Security with regards to bomb explosions which allegedly you committed?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And afterwards you were released?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.  I would just like to say Chairperson, that when I was taken into detention, afterwards I learnt and I also saw from the media, that Terreblanche told the media that he did not know me at all and that he does not know the people who were in detention with me.

MR PRINSLOO: The people who were with you in detention, were they members of the AWB?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: They were members or Officials of the AWB.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, with regard to what happened before December the 12th, that was just after the ANC got unbanned, what was the AWB's opinion when they realised that there was going to be an election?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The AWB's attitude at that stage was that there was not going to be an election.  I had discussions with Terreblanche several times, and he said that if we allow the election to take place, then it would be the end of the AWB, because he often committed himself to the fact that he would resist the capitulation of the government.
	We all had, all the leaders of the AWB realised that we were involved in a war, and that we had to kill people and that we had to plant bombs in order to focus the attention on the liberating ideal and also to stop the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: Just to summarise, what happened before the election, what preceded the election and at that stage Constand Viljoen was with you in several groupings of the right wing, together with Hartzenberg?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Chairperson.  The day after Terreblanche gave me the instructions, the leader of the Volksfront came to me and said the terror must begin, the bombs must explode.  So from both sides I got instructions.
	On the one side Terreblanche and on the other side, also from the Volksfront.  I drove down and I discussed it at the Volksfront Headquarters with Commandant Pretorius who was there and he told me that it is correct, the terror must start and I went back and I gave instructions to my men.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: .

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Van der Walt?

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Kriel, the instructions that you received, that you received as a Brigadier and Commander of the AWB, is that correct?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, that is.

MS VAN DER WALT: This Generals in Staff would they have received the same type of instructions to work in their own individual areas?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, yes.  I would say that some of the Generals that Eugene Terreblanche did not trust and he said to me that I must not talk to them.  There were some of them like that, so it was not with all the Generals.
	The instructions usually came from where we were in small groups, rather than where we were in large numbers.

MS VAN DER WALT: Gen Oelofse, was he one of the Generals that were trusted by Terreblanche?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: He was highly trusted yes.  He was appointed as a Fighting General and Mr Terreblanche said that he had certain task groups under him that is very qualified.

MS VAN DER WALT: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Knoetze?

MR KNOETZE: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dreyer?

MR DREYER: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You will limit yourself to the extent that he implicates your client?

MR DREYER: As the Court pleases, Mr Chairman.   Do I understand you correctly that even before 1993, in your position as a Brigadier in the AWB, you were convinced that the revolution had been going on for a few years?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, definitely Mr Chairperson.  I saw it that the AWB revolution stated in 1910 and then right through the years it had been continuing.  I did not see it as something that could be completed in one day.

MR DREYER: Do I understand the word beginning in the same way, it begins - it is a one off thing, it begins.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR DREYER: You said you heard and realised that there were some road blocks where they would look for weapons?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct yes.

MR DREYER: And that is why they held or set up road blocks?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, that is correct.

MR DREYER: No other purpose?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, it was only to seize weapons.

MR DREYER: Now the other thing, you specifically say that you received instructions from the top structure of the AWB, namely Mr Eugene Terreblanche himself, that you must plant bombs and once again the bombs were in order to prevent communication and that was the goal?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, among other purposes.

MR DREYER: I just want to know, you did not receive instructions of him in order to kill civilians?