Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR BOTHA: Oh yes, there certainly was a reason. If we had launched a counter-attack in Richards Bay, say, that it wouldn't have been easily linked with the attack earlier that morning by the PAC in Durban and that would have neutralised the whole purpose of the attack.  The purpose was that the two attacks should be linked so that both the government of the day and the PAC and other organisations should realise that the Boerevolk were prepared to fight and that we weren't simply going to lie down and allow them to walk all over us.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Botha,  if I understand your evidence correctly, this Orde Boerevolk cell operated underground in secret?

MR BOTHA: That is quite correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Smuts, one of your members, he was your subordinate?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage you were also a member of the AWB?

MR BOTHA: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And that also applied to Smuts?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Was Smuts also your subordinate in the AWB?

MR BOTHA: That is correct. Yes, he was a Field-cornet.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

MR WILKINSON: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Mr Botha, you testified that you were instructed to establish a Orde Boerevolk cell in Richards Bay?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR WILKINSON: Do you think Mr Marais specifically had any doubt in your role as leader of the cell?

MR BOTHA: Absolutely not.

MR WILKINSON: You also testified that while you were moving past  the bus that you gave the instruction to fire on the bus?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR WILKINSON: Given that time, do you think Mr Marais would have fired at the bus?

MR BOTHA: I didn't hear you.

MR WILKINSON: Given that particular moment, if you hadn't given the order, do you think Mr Marais would himself have fired without your command?

MR BOTHA: I doubt that, I don't  believe so.

MR WILKINSON: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILKINSON

MR BRINK: Mr Botha I intend to put my questions in English but of course you're free to answer in Afrikaans.

MR BOTHA: I don't have a problem with that Mr Chairperson.

MR BRINK: Can you tell the Committee - that's if you know, the total number of  Orde Boerevolk, in other words, the total membership throughout the country?

MR BOTHA: Mr Chairman, I can't even remotely make an estimate, because the composition of the Orde Boerevolk was of such a nature that I didn't know of the existence of any other cells. I wouldn't know if there were thirty members, three hundred, three thousand, thirty thousand.  I wouldn't be able to say.

MR BRINK: Did you never discuss the matter with Mr Rudolf perhaps to ascertain the size of this group?

MR BOTHA: I must say that at the time of the attack, although I had seen Mr Rudolf, I had never spoken with him.  And also at the time of the attack, if my memory serves me correctly, Mr Rudolf was already in detention in terms of  Section 28 of the Internal Security Act.

MR BRINK: Can you tell the Committee how many members of the Orde Boerevolk there were in your particular group in Richards Bay?

MR BOTHA: I only recruited four members. My order was that a cell consisted of five, a leader and four members.

MR BRINK: You see, I ask these questions because you refer in your  evidence to a declaration of war, and what I really want to know, is who declared war and on whom?

MR BOTHA: The leader, Mr Piet Rudolf, as I said in my evidence. He stole the firearms from the Airforce headquarters. Out of that, by way of a video which the movement made and released to the media, he, by means of this, declared war on the then government.

MR BRINK: So it wasn't a declaration of war following upon any particular incident which happened, where lives were lost for example?

MR BOTHA: That's correct.

MR BRINK: After you had heard about the attack upon these White people at the beach front by allegedly PAC members, did you take advice from anyone more senior to you in the Orde Boerevolk, or were you not able to do so?

MR BOTHA: No, I did not.

MR BRINK: So this was a unilateral action, which you decided should be taken without consulting anyone at all?

MR BOTHA: Mr Chairman, I explained that this attack had to take place in Durban on the same day as the PAC attack so that the one attack could be related to the other. It was not an action that one could plan days before the time. Action had to be taken - and fast.
And as a cell leader I took my - I had to use my initiative in implementing the order that I had been given when I'd been sworn in of killing ten Black people for every one White person who died. I had to carry that order out as quickly as possible. I couldn't postpone. If the attack had taken place a day after, or a week after, then that attack would not have been coupled to the attack by the PAC on the morning of the 9th of October.

MR BRINK: Well, you'd heard on the radio news that alleged PAC members had been responsible for the attack at the beach front, you'd heard that?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR BRINK: Did you not think, perhaps it might be better to hold back and investigate the offices of the PAC, the whereabouts of the local offices of the PAC, because they were unbanned at that stage?

MR BOTHA: Mr Chairman, I must explain that I am not a politician, I'm  a soldier and I carry out commands which are given to me. That is all that I was doing there.

MR BRINK: Well, what is your military experience, Mr Botha? Conventional military experience?

MR BOTHA: I did my national service, my military service in the South African Navy.

MR BRINK: For how long?

MR BOTHA: A year's full-time training and then a year's citizen force training. Then I was in the permanent force of the South African Airforce for a year.

MR BRINK: But wouldn't it have been better to ascertain the whereabouts of the offices of the PAC and if you had a mind to, you could go into those PAC offices and possibly bomb them or burn them or whatever, rather than take the lives of innocent people who weren't necessarily members of the PAC?

MR BOTHA: Mr Chairman, as I explained, time was the factor. We didn't have time to conduct investigations, to enquire. The rules of this attack were not written by us. The PAC had attacked Whites on the beach front that morning purely because they were White.
They weren't interested in whether some of the Whites might perhaps have been PAC or ANC supporters, or whether they were members of the National Party. They were attacked simply because they were White, there was no other reason. No distinction was drawn between elderly men, women. They were attacked simply because they were White.

MR BRINK: Very well. When you got to  - when you got to Durban that evening, you told the Committee that you saw a taxi and as I understand your evidence, you followed the taxi for some distance?

MR BOTHA: That is correct.

MR BRINK: And the taxi drove into what - built-up area consisting of so-called White houses?

MR BOTHA: No it was a non-White area.

MR BRINK: Why didn't you then attack the taxi?

MR BOTHA: Probably for the same reason is that when we fired on the bus, I was driving behind the bus and as we drove into KwaMashu I did a U-turn, and then we found ourselves beside - behind the same bus. At the time I could have fired on the bus again, but that wasn't the purpose. We weren't there simply to commit mass-murder. I could have driven into KwaMashu and just mown people down.   It was an attack in which we wanted to specifically draw the attention of the former government and the PAC to the fact that attacks of this kind were not going to be tolerated. It wasn't simply bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed.

MR BRINK: What I really want to know is why the attack on the taxi was aborted?