Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I am telling the truth.  The firearms were given to us by Makhekhe and we could not ask him where he got the firearms from.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you nearly finished?

MR WILLS: Yes, just very briefly thank you Mr Chair. Just one last aspect.  Who did you say or who did you think the driver of this kombi was?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Qeda is the driver of that kombi.

MR WILLS: Does this Keta have any other name?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, he is Jeremiah Zulu.

MR WILLS: Do you his surname, Jeremiah's surname?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Zulu.  Qeda Jeremiah Zulu.

MR WILLS: Well I put it to you on objective evidence which is accepted by the Court, that the person actually driving the kombi that day, and that person is present in this room today, was an individual by the name of Welcome Themba Ngoso Mkhize, and further that he has never been known by any of the names you have mentioned today.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.  The kombi was not driven by Qeda on that day, it was driven by its owner.  Qeda is the regular driver because the owner is employed somewhere.

MR WILLS: Are you saying that on the day of the incident, that this person Keta was not driving the kombi?
	Yes sorry I didn't - so you further saying that even though you realised that, you still attacked the kombi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, we continued.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have questions that you wish to put to this witness?

MR BRINK: No, thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR ALBERTS: Yes Mr Chairman, just a few aspects on the point that my learned friend has just touched on.
	At what stage during this attack did you realise that the people in the kombi are not the people that you expected to find in the kombi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: This a dusty road.  There was dust when it approaches and drove past us.  It was only after the dust had subsided that we realised that the people that we were shooting at were not the people we intended.

MR ALBERTS: Was it before or after the kombi stopped?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It was after it had stopped.

MR ALBERTS: As far as the information you had was concerned, was this kombi usually used as a taxi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It is not used by the public.

MR ALBERTS: According to your information what was this kombi used as?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It was used by ANC supporters to attack IFP supporters.

MR ALBERTS: And who did you expect to find inside that vehicle?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We expected the people who were attackers of the IFP.

MR ALBERTS: Thank you Mr Chairman nothing further.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ALBERTS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills, is Mr Welcome Mkhize here?

MR WILLS: He is indeed Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And is he available to give evidence? I would like a few questions to put to him.

MR WILLS: I am sure he wouldn't mind. I haven't broached him on the subject but he is here.

CHAIRPERSON: You are excused.  Excuse me, yes you are excused you can go off please.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mkhize, are you here?  Mr Mkhize I am sorry, you did not know that you were going to give evidence but I personally would like to clear up one or two questions about this vehicle.  Are you prepared to answer questions?

WELCOME MKHIZE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Your name has been mentioned as the driver of this kombi on the day when it was attacked by the applicant and his companions. Were you in fact the driver?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes, I was the driver on that day.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is the owner of this kombi?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I am the owner.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you at that time when this incident occurred - were you at that time the owner?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now what was the purpose for which this kombi was used?

WELCOME MKHIZE: It was a taxi.

CHAIRPERSON: You say it was a regular taxi used like other taxis?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And where did you operate from and to what destination?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I was operating from Pietermaritzburg town to Nkanyezini area.

CHAIRPERSON: And how many trips a day did you make?

WELCOME MKHIZE: It depended on how many passengers I got.

CHAIRPERSON: Would there be a time when it would make more than one trip a day?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes, about four trips a day.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you pick up passengers along the way?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You heard the evidence of the last witness who says that you operated from an ANC area.

WELCOME MKHIZE: It was not true that the areas were divided as IFP or ANC areas.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge did your vehicle only convey ANC passengers?

WELCOME MKHIZE: No.	  It was ferrying all passengers.

CHAIRPERSON: The man Mthethwa whose name has been mentioned here, was he your regular driver?

WELCOME MKHIZE: That is a lie.  Qeda never drove my car.  I was always driving it whenever my driver was not there.

CHAIRPERSON: You know the man Mthethwa?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes, I know him.

CHAIRPERSON: On the day of this incident were you one of those who were injured?

WELCOME MKHIZE: By the grace of Jesus, I was not injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Alberts are there any questions you wish to put to this person?

MR ALBERTS: Yes, Mr Chairman.
	How do you know this person Mthethwa?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I knew Qeda as one of the home boys, like and other boy in the area.  When the violence started, I left and went to stay in town because I could afford.  I left them in the area.

CHAIRPERSON: Just come forward and talk into the mike.

MR BRINK: Sit up straight.

WELCOME MKHIZE: I cannot remember.  I was already in the suburb when the violence started.

MR ALBERTS: Did you still work in this area?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I ran a taxi business.

MR ALBERTS: When was it that you moved to the suburbs?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Long ago, before many people started dying.

MR ALBERTS: And what type of, you said you had a job, what job did you do in the suburbs?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I was a manager for Rainbow Chicken.

MR ALBERTS: So during the day time you could not operate your taxi?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I was driving it when I am off.

MR ALBERTS: And on the days that you were working, did that taxi just stand there at home?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Thulani Zimu was using it.

MR ALBERTS: If I am not mistaken your evidence earlier was that you were the driver of that vehicle at all times, nobody else?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Let me explain that I am working at Rainbow Chicken.  When I was off, I would drive it.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name of the person who drove it whilst you were at work, Thulani what?   Thulani what?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Thulani Zimu.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

MR ALBERTS: My question was if I remember correctly, when Mr Chairman asked you a question regarding who the driver of that taxi was, you said only you.

WELCOME MKHIZE: I meant when I was not working I used to drive it.  When not, Thulani would drive it.

MR ALBERTS: The question was put to you whether this Mthethwa ever drove the vehicle and you said: "Oh no" only you are the driver.  Are you changing your evidence now?

WELCOME MKHIZE: That is a mistake.

MR ALBERTS: Did this Mthethwa also drive the car from time to time?

WELCOME MKHIZE: It never happened even once that Qeda drove my vehicle.

MR ALBERTS: If you say when you moved to the suburbs you forgot about the area but you also say every weekend or on your off days you drove the vehicle there and back as a taxi?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the question? I didn't hear the question.

MR ALBERTS: The witness stated earlier in his evidence that when he moved to the suburbs I think his words were he put that area behind him, giving the impression that he had nothing further to do with the area but now he says on his off days he is a taxi driver and he drives on that route on all his off days.

CHAIRPERSON: Because of the violence in that area he left ...(inaudible)