Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-17

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  We shall now proceed with the matter that was adjourned yesterday and were unable to proceed with this morning, in order to enable the victims who are from Giyani to be able to be part of the process in the application of Mr Mononi.
	You will be excused whilst we proceed with the application of Mr Radebe and Mr Mkhwanazi.
	We hope to be able to pronounce our decision in respect of Mr Mononi at about half past four or five o'clock.  It is merely an approximation.  Please don't hold us down to time.
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: We are going to proceed with your matter.  I don't have my pad, I think my Secretary has omitted to bring my pad.    Ms Moloisane, I think we left the matter yesterday at a point where you were going to call your next witness, being one Bonga Khumalo?

MS MOLOISANE: As it pleases you Madam Chair.  Bonga Khumalo.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khumalo, is it your intention to give your evidence under oath?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes.

BONGA KHUMALO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may be seated.  Ms Moloisane, you may proceed.

MS MOLOISANE: Mr Khumalo, where do you stay?

BONGA KHUMALO: I reside at Sebokeng.

MS MOLOISANE: And during 1991, you were not in the country, not so?

BONGA KHUMALO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't put a leading question Ms Moloisane, rephrase your question.

MS MOLOISANE: Where were you during 1991?

BONGA KHUMALO: I was in Botswana.

MS MOLOISANE: Why were you living in Botswana then?

BONGA KHUMALO: I was in exile in the camps of the ANC.

MS MOLOISANE: When did you come back to the country?

BONGA KHUMALO: In February 1992.

MS MOLOISANE: Upon your arrival in the country, back in Sebokeng, were you given any political portfolio in the township?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, I was a member of the ANC Youth League, being Secretary of Politics in the ANC Youth League.

MS MOLOISANE: Where was your office located then?

BONGA KHUMALO: My office was in Zone 12.

MS MOLOISANE: Where exactly at Zone 12 was your office?

BONGA KHUMALO: Actually Sebokeng is just a branch and Zone 12 is a sub-branch of Sebokeng, and we had our office at Hollywood.

MS MOLOISANE: Are you referring to Hollywood Night Club?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes.

MS MOLOISANE: Do you know the applicants in this case, Fanie Mkhwanazi and John Radebe?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, I know them.

MS MOLOISANE: Briefly explain to the Committee how you know them.

BONGA KHUMALO: One person that I know very well, is Fanie because he belonged to our branch of the ANC Youth League and Mkondo was an activist too, even though I cannot confirm his membership because he belonged to another district.
	You would bear with me, I don't know their real names.

MS MOLOISANE: I have here as applicants John Radebe and Fanie Mkhwanazi.

BONGA KHUMALO: It is Radebe.

MS MOLOISANE: You say both were members of the Youth League, is that what you are saying?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes.

MS MOLOISANE: Do you know anything about the establishment of the Self Defence Units in the township or in Zone 12, Sebokeng?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes.

MS MOLOISANE: How were the structures operating and how were the formulated, start with the formulation, how were they composed of?

BONGA KHUMALO: Are you talking about the structures in Zone 12?  When I came back into the country in 1992, it was during the violence.  There was this conflict between the ANC and the IFP and there were no Defence Units and the organisation made a call after the suspension of the armed struggle, a call to the effect that people should set up structures to protect the community so that people who had been exiled, are the ones who were targeted and assigned with the task of setting up these structures.
	I was assigned to assist in setting up such a structure in Zone 12 Sebokeng.

MS MOLOISANE: You talked about the organisation, which organisation are you referring to, clarify please.

BONGA KHUMALO: The ANC and the call had come from the National Office of the ANC that people should set up structures for self defence.

MS MOLOISANE: How were they set up?

BONGA KHUMALO: Zone 12 had four blocks.  What happened is that we had to make sure that each area has its own Commander in charge, whose responsibility would be among other things, to recruit.  There were four Units in existence and these Units had different Commanders.

MS MOLOISANE: How was each Unit composed, how many members?

BONGA KHUMALO: Each Unit doesn't have to have more than 10 comrades, but because of the circumstances in the township and we had many Units mushrooming, we resultantly ended up saying that each Unit should have about 18 to 20 comrades as members.

MS MOLOISANE: Now, who were the Commanders in charge in Zone 12?

BONGA KHUMALO: I was a Commander of my Unit.  I was a Unit Commander of Zone 12.

MS MOLOISANE: If I understand you well, do you mean that you were the Unit Commander of all four Units, is that your evidence?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, that is my explanation.

MS MOLOISANE: Who were the Commanders in charge of these four Units?

BONGA KHUMALO: You mean the four of them?

MS MOLOISANE: Yes?

BONGA KHUMALO: There is one Unit that was commanded by Mabuza Mhlongo.  Another commanded by Mzwakhe Stuurman, Senki Zakwe commanded another one and ...

CHAIRPERSON: Just come again with regard to the third Commander.

MS MOLOISANE: Pardon Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't get the name of the third Commander.  I've got Mabuza Mhlongo, Mzwakhe Stuurman.

BONGA KHUMALO: Senki Zakwe.  And then one Unit that was commanded by Skosana.

MS MOLOISANE: Now, to which of these four Units, did the applicant in this matter belong?  In whose Unit were they, Fanie Mkhwanazi and John Radebe, do you still remember?

BONGA KHUMALO: They were under Mabuza Mhlongo's Unit.

MS MOLOISANE: How did this Unit operate in relation to the protection of the community as you say?  How did they protect, how were they required by you to protect the community?

BONGA KHUMALO: The name is self-explanatory, Self Defence Unit.
	Initially it was a question or the question of defending the community so that we had nightly patrols.  Madam Chair, you will bear with me, when we say a person should protect oneself, this means everything, but what we meant was defending the community and this involved killing.
	The main thing was defending the community, including patrols, nightly patrols and daily patrols.

MS MOLOISANE: Which cases justified killing, as you say?  Under what circumstances would there be killings?

BONGA KHUMALO: When the members were out on patrol and happened to come across an enemy, they for example had to have a Commander in charge of that Unit, during the patrol.
	When they were out on patrol, the Commander in charge was authorised to issue orders to the effect that if killing was necessary, that had to be done.

MS MOLOISANE: Do you know one Hapile Nduno and Elsie Mokoena?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, I know them.

MS MOLOISANE: How do you know them?

BONGA KHUMALO: First of all I know them as girls who resided in Zone 12.

MS MOLOISANE: It is common cause that Hapile Nduno was shot and killed on the 15th of August 1993 and her friend Elsie Mokoena was shot and injured on that day.  Do you know anything about those events?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, I heard that that incident happened.

MS MOLOISANE: From whom did you hear about them?

BONGA KHUMALO: I met with the Unit Commander of the applicants and I received from him a report to the effect of this incident having happened and that Hapile was killed and Elsie injured.
	But it was after a few days.

MS MOLOISANE: Did he tell you under what circumstances or what led to the killing of Hapile and the injuring of Elsie Mokoena?

BONGA KHUMALO: Yes, he did explain it to me.  Mostly Chairperson, it is that we had information regarding these ladies, this is why I did not ask many questions as to why she was killed, because we already had information about them.