Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-30

MR WILLS: Now, I am sorry, I might have misunderstood your evidence.  I just want to clear it up.  What did these people do?  Just tell me what these people did.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They wanted Indaba Zimboeza Poswa to try and call him to reconcile with me since they have killed my son.

MR WILLS: And what happened thereafter?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They did not reach any peaceful agreement and they chose they did not want any peace.

MR WILLS: Now, were any other steps taken to negotiate the problems there and, specifically, I refer to in regard to a Chief Dlamini Mbulwa?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: After that Timothy Poswa and Vincent Poswa and Armond Poswa, they went to the chief, Konsingdaba Dlamini.

MR WILLS: Is that Timothy Poswa who is your father?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, Timothy Poswa is my father and he is a Headman.

MR WILLS: And Vincent Poswa, who is your blood brother?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, Vincent Poswa is my brother.

MR WILLS: And they went to Chief Dlamini who resides in the Bulwa area and whose jurisdiction covers the Gengeshe area?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, they went to Chief Dlamini at Bulwa.

MR WILLS: And can you tell the committee whether or not that attempt was successful.  Did Chief Dlamini help, in other words?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: He did not help.  They asked him to come and reconcile the people.  He did not.

MR WILLS: Now, you referred to an incident earlier where you said you got confused in respect of Mantutu Poswa and you mentioned something about Pinetown.  Can you explain to the committee about what, when this happened and what occurred there?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Which time are you referring to?

MR WILLS: You mentioned earlier something happened to Mantutu Poswa in Pinetown.  Can you tell the committee what happened there?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: The IFP members bought a car, I mean, referring to Becker Poswa and they went to shoot Mantutu at Grondskloof in Pinetown.

MR WILLS: And this Mantutu Poswa, what political party was he?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Mantutu Poswa is an ANC member.

MR WILLS: And this Becker, you mentioned Becker Poswa bought a car and they went to Pinetown in that car.  This Becker Poswa, is he one of the deceased in this matter?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, I want to refer to the actual attack on the 26th of or the actual incident, should I say, on the 26th of September 1992.  Can you tell the committee what happened in the couple of days before that attack occurred?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: You mean before the 26th?

MR WILLS: Yes.  Did you receive a phone call from anybody?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, Becker Poswa called me and told me that they are coming to attack us at Ndaleni and we are not going to see the Christmas of 1992.

MR WILLS: Sorry, I did not get the end of that answer.  I wonder if I could ask if the interpreter could repeat it.

INTERPRETER: He said they are coming to attack them and they will not see the Christmas of 1992.

MR WILLS: And this Becker Poswa is the same person you referred to earlier as being a deceased and prior to that being a prominent IFP leader?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: So, what was your response?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I said they should come and I am also coming to their side.

MR WILLS: Okay, now it is common cause that on the 26th of September you arrived early in the morning at Gengeshe.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, how many people were with you and by that I refer to the people in your party?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We were about 31 or 32.

MR WILLS: And these were ANC members.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And the second applicant, Mr Nzimande, was among that group.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you remember the names of any others?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: It was myself, Mandlenkosi Poswa, Mafoeka Nzimande, Lolo Poswa, Fanake Poswa, Falane Imbona, Nandi Poswa, Tuffie Mshengu.  I cannot remember the others and I did not know some of them.

MR WILLS: Now, what were you going to do at Gengeshe?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We were ...

MR WILLS: Now, I think it is common cause that a number of you were armed on that occasion.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, we were armed, ...

MR WILLS: What ...

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: ... heavily armed.

MR WILLS: What were you armed with, personally?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I was holding a 303 firearm.

MR WILLS: And where did you get that firearm from?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I bought it from Bovane at Nele.

MR WILLS: Sorry, can you slowly repeat that name for the committee?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I bought it from Bovane Nele.

MR WILLS: When did you buy it from Bovane Nele?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: At the beginning of 1991.

MR WILLS: As I understand it, this is prior to the violence starting in Gengeshe?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, this Bovane Nele is, in fact, the person whose, the deceased in count three of the incident.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, he is one of the deceased.

MR WILLS: You have referred to him as being an IFP member?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, he was an IFP member.

MR WILLS: Now, as regards the other persons, can you just describe to the committee how they were armed?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: You mean the ANC people?

MR WILLS: I mean the ANC people, yes.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They were armed with firearms, others with spears and hunting or bush knives.

MR WILLS: Was everybody armed with a firearm?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Not all were armed with firearms.  Few of them had firearms and others had spears and the bush, bush knives.

MR WILLS: Now, okay, it is common cause that you arrived at Gengeshe relatively early in the morning, I think before six a.m.  Can you tell the committee what happened soon after your arrival?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We arrived at Gengeshe.  We left the others at their homes below and we proceeded towards Umkumazi to my tuck-shop to see the damage, how it was damaged.  We came back going to one of my shop.  Before we reach that direction people started shooting at us, the IFP members.

MR WILLS: And were the IFP members all separate or were they together, what was the position?  Were ...

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They were near the family of Becker, just in front of Becker's family.  There were many just next to the house.

MR WILLS: Now, my reading of the bundle here, it appears that they were in a camp on, from the evening prior to the incident until the morning when you arrived.  Do you understand what a camp is?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, I know a camp.  They were at the camp.

MR WILLS: And what do you understand by the meaning "camp"?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: It is a place where people sit and wait for the war to start.  It is a waiting place.

MR WILLS: So, as I understand it, all of these IFP members were together when you first saw them?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, they were waiting.  They were waiting ANC members.

MR WILLS: Now, after this shooting started what did the ANC members do?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: While we were going towards a direction along the road they shot at us.  We tried to protect ourselves by lying on the road.  They continued to shoot and they stopped.  When we tried to stand up they shot one of an ANC member, Mr Mtolo.  He fall on the ground and we started leaving the road and we went, moved towards their direction after one of us was shot and we started shooting.

MR WILLS: Now, this Mr Mtolo that you referred to, did he die in the incident?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, he died.

MR WILLS: And then you retaliated, you indicated you retaliated.  You, yourself, were you responsible for killing anybody that day?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, we were lying on one of the fields and they shot at us and we returned fire and I shot someone.