Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-13

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee at what time was it?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: I think it was around 11 o'clock Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: In the day, in the morning.

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: That's correct, in the day.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And is it correct that it was there that the operation was decided upon and Pitso also identified it as a farm he had knowledge about?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And after this discussion, you returned to Bloemfontein?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Who went back to Bloemfontein Sir?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay. What happened after the discussion?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: After being given an instruction and after Pitso told us that there's an identified farm, Pitso said yes we have a place and we were ordered to go and find the guns and myself and Tabiso went to hike and we went for Brandfort.

MR MBANDAZAYO: You left about 7 o'clock, each of you was armed with a Rambo knife, dagger type, is it correct?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: We arrived in Brandfort, we went to Pitso's home.  Pitso took three knives, big knives.  After that we went to his friend's home, we bought dagga and we went to sit by the curve on the tarred road.  We took our weapons, we hid them.  I'm sorry, I'll try to speak a bit slow.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, continue.

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: After buying dagga, we went to sit next to the tarred road and we took the weapons, we placed them a little bit further and we sat down.  There were trees.  We prepared our dagga and we smoked.  When it was dark, we left for that farm.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay and you arrived at the farm about 11 o'clock?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Around 10 o'clock.

MR MBANDAZAYO: You jumped over the fence and proceeded to the mielie plantation, towards the house?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: We jumped the fence, we walked in the mielie field and we sat next to the cow shed and the farm house was quite distance.  We did not go straight to the farm house, we sat next to the cow shed and then Pitso gave us dagga again, he said we should smoke.  We did smoke and then thereafter we left the cow shed and then we proceeded to the house.  We moved around the house just inspecting the house.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  Pitso produced a handgun and you then realised that he had a firearm?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: You see I want to give you this statement.  Yes, this is the right statement but the person who wrote the statement ...

MR MBANDAZAYO: I agree with you, but I want to confirm whether there was a gun or not, did Pitso have a gun or not?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes, he had a gun.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is it correct that you found an open window through which you entered the house?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is it correct that you searched the rooms but you did not find anyone?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes, two of the rooms, but two had people.

MR MBANDAZAYO: You saw in one of the rooms a white woman, in a bed, reading her Bible?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: You entered, you grabbed her and tied her hands and demanded money?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: She denied that there is money in the house, is it correct?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: She did not deny.  We went into this room and Pitso went into the other room.  When we grabbed this woman in this room, I was with Thebogo and she screamed and we grabbed her, we tied her and when I left this room, that was with Thebogo and I went to the other room to look for Pitso, Pitso said:  "Gentlemen, do the work" and we killed this woman and then we searched in the room with no hurry.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you searched the room and at the end of the day you found a revolver with six bullets?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: After finishing searching this room with Thebogo, we went back to the room where Pitso was.  He had already killed this woman and there was a purse on the bed, red in colour and a bank bag and a revolver.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  What did you eventually manage to get in the house?  Was it a gun and what else did you find? Money and how much money?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: The money that was in the purse was three R10 notes.  In the bank bag was a few silver coins, I do not know how much they were and a firearm.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you eventually killed the two ladies by stabbing them several times, is it correct?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you drag the old lady back into her room and left her there?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: No.  We killed her in her bedroom and we left her in that bedroom.  The young one, we also killed her in her bedroom and we left her in that bedroom.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And eventually you drove, you took the Isuzu and you drove away?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.  I asked Pitso where the car keys were because we had searched and I told them:  "Guys you are now aware we have a firearm and now can we go?"  He gave me the keys and I drove.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay and you left Pitso on the way and you gave him some share and you drove with Macdonald, is that correct?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: You see on our way, when we left the farm joining the road, we drove, but then along the way Pitso said he saw a miracle before he killed this young woman.  On the curve next to Brandfort I stopped and I said:  "Pitso, these guns will be left in your custody and after two weeks we will come back" and he said:  "Guys, take this R30 because you are aware the petrol is not enough and please pour petrol and with the silver you can buy some food to eat.  You are aware that we did not get enough money."  So myself and Thebogo got into town, we bought diesel and then we drove to Bloemfontein.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay, if you had enough money, were you going to share this money amongst yourselves?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: The money was going to be handed over to Pitso and the car - I was going to drop the car where I was ordered to drop it off.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where were you ordered to drop it off?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: There's a block of flats next to Tempe, that's where I dropped the car off, according to Dlogodlo's instructions.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And how was he going to get the car?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: He knows how he was going to get the car.  He informed us that many cars have been received that way, so we just parked the car there and we locked the car.  There was a - I put the car keys underneath a tyre and we left for the taxi rank.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you take the cassette, the radio cassette?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes, I took it.

MR MBANDAZAYO: What were you going to do with it?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: I was taking it home.

MR MBANDAZAYO: What were you going to do with it?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: I was going to listen to it Sir, so that I could get a report as to what happened, in other words the incident that we've just committed.  When we arrived at the taxi rank with Thebogo, we arrived at somewhere around to 6 at the taxi rank.  We waited there for a while until past 7 and we took - I took a taxi to Pelindaba.  Thebogo took a taxi to Malay Camp and the rest of the day I was at home and around 10 o'clock of the next day, I was listening to the same radio then and I heard that the police are conducting an investigation because the people who committed the murder managed to run away.  I closed the room and I went to the public phones to inform Pitso - to call Pitso and I told him:  "Pitso, the police are busy with the investigations".  He asked me:  "Listen, the tape that was in the car, did you leave it behind or did you take it?"  I told him I took it, it is the same tape that informed me and he said to me:  "Destroy it please" and I destroyed it.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  Now Mr Tuis, is it correct that you gave evidence in Court when you were subsequently tried for this offence?

SAMSON ZONGIZILE TUIS: Yes.