Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MRS DU RANDT: That night after I had peeped, I saw - this was after my son had been there, he opened the thing because he thought that his dad  - what do they call that now, something which you use to work with cars and he said: "Oh, had my dad got it for me"? and I said: "No, it's not yours, it's Clive's" but by that time he'd already opened and that was when I saw that it was a gun.
	The next morning - after we had met Clive, my husband had rang the bell and he had come out and I said to him: "I thought it was a men's jersey but I see now it is a gun" and he said no, he had it serviced but I assumed that it was Clive's revolver or gun which he had repaired.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you ask your husband why the firearm had been brought to you?

MRS DU RANDT: No.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did your husband say anything concerning the firearm?

MRS DU RANDT: No, that night when he returned from the meeting I told him that he had to phone Clive and inform him that a jersey had been delivered for him because I'm taken it off my table and I'd put it in the laundry because my grandchildren and my son had come to have coffee with us after church that evening.

GEORGE BIZOS: At that stage you did know that it was not just a matter of a jersey but that the more important thing that had to be handed over was the firearm and not the jersey?

MRS DU RANDT: No, I just assumed that it was Clive's and that he had it repaired.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did your husband have any knowledge that the firearm would be delivered at your place?

MRS DU RANDT: No, not that I'm aware of.

GEORGE BIZOS: When the parcel was handed over to you, didn't it feel too heavy to be just a jersey?

MRS DU RANDT: Well, it looked like a box like this and I put it on the table.

GEORGE BIZOS: And why are you sure that it was the 25th of February?

MRS DU RANDT: Because the 29th of February was my daughter's birthday and that Thursday morning very early we would drive through to her.

GEORGE BIZOS: So, we can accept that you are entirely certain that this took place on the 25th of February?

MRS DU RANDT: Yes, because normally on Thursdays we go through to her because this is the first time that my daughter had moved away from us.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you Mr Chairman, we have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mrs du Randt, when did you make a statement to the police with regard to this matter?

MRS DU RANDT: I was on the day of the 21st of April, I went to my attorney after I had heard that the police were looking for me.

MR PRINSLOO: And did the police speak to you before you went to your attorney?

MRS DU RANDT: I went to Advocate Jeug Prinsloo very early that morning and he phoned around and he spoke to a Colonel van
Niekerk who told him to keep me there and then I said to my daughter: "Let's go, I'm not looking forward to this matter, let me go and see my attorney".

MR PRINSLOO: Did the police arrest you or keep you with regard to this matter?

MRS DU RANDT: They told Mr Wessel Cronje to keep me there and that they would come through to Benoni to come and pick me up because they told me that they would keep my husband locked up there until I came and made a statement.

MR PRINSLOO: Was your husband under arrest at that stage?

MRS DU RANDT: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did your husband say anything to you with regard to what other people had said or so and so?

MRS DU RANDT: No, nothing at all.

MR PRINSLOO: This date of the 25th of February - on which date the weapon was taken to Mr Derby-Lewis's house, I would like to state to you that from the 22nd of February until the 4th of March, Mr Derby Lewis was at the President's Council in Cape Town - and his programme I will submit to the Committee, and it is clear from the programme that on the 25th of February he was not at his house, are you mistaken about this date?

MRS DU RANDT: I don't know.

MR PRINSLOO: Is it possible that you are mistaken, that it could have been in March?

MRS DU RANDT: No, I could have perhaps been in error.

MR PRINSLOO: I would further like to state to you that Mr Faan Venter - the person that you state had delivered the firearm at your house, only moved into Krugersdorp area after the end of February or at the end of February, you didn't know about this?

MRS DU RANDT: No, I didn't.

MR PRINSLOO: I beg your pardon Mr Chairman.
	Madam, did your husband hand the firearm to Mr Derby-Lewis?

MRS DU RANDT: No, we drove up - the gates were always closed, so he opened the gate and we drove into the driveway, he got out, knocked on the door and then Clive came out.  I opened my door and I gave the parcel to him because there was also mail in this because my husband is the only person who has to post box key and normally Clive or Gay come and collect the mail or we go and deliver it to them.

MR PRINSLOO: Just a moment's patience.
	Madam, you would perhaps not be aware of this - I assume that that you won't be aware but Mr Faan Venter only saw Mr Derby-Lewis on the 10th of March and then he asked him about the firearm, you cannot dispute this - you are not aware of it?

MRS DU RANDT: No, I'm not aware.

MR PRINSLOO: But Mr Derby-Lewis returned to the President's Council on the 22nd of March for a sitting on the 1st of April - according to the programme which I will submit to the Committee.

MRS DU RANDT: No, I'm not aware of it.

MR PRINSLOO: You're not aware.
	Thank you Your Honour, I just wish to make copies of this document as they made copies of the wrong one but I can show you the original and then I will have copies made.  Unfortunately, I had the 1992 programme copied but I think this is the copy that Ms Khampepe asked for earlier as was raised during testimony.  It will be Exhibit A(g) - I undertake to have copies made during the adjournment and make these available to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any further questions for this witness?

MR PRINSLOO: No further questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Mpshe, are there any questions you would like to put to this witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, questions Mr Chairman, thank you.

GEORGE BIZOS: Madam, when is the birthday of your daughter?

MRS DU RANDT: The 29th of February - that would have been the Sunday.

GEORGE BIZOS: And are you sure that it was before your daughter's birthday that this event occurred?

MRS DU RANDT: Well, I know that on the 25th we went through to her.

JUDGE WILSON: You say that you know that on the 25th you went through to her?

MRS DU RANDT: Yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: You stated the date of the 25th of February in the High Court in Johannesburg.

MRS DU RANDT: Yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: And after you had testified to that effect - and this appears on page 305, that neither Mr Jordaan nor Mr de Vos nor Mrs van der Walt posed any questions to you during that hearing?

MRS DU RANDT: That is correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: We have no further questions of the witness Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Ms van der Walt, are there any questions you wish to put to this witness?

MS VAN DER WALT: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

GEORGE BIZOS: We want to make a decision about Mr du Randt, in view of one or two of the matters that have been raised, we may ask him to consult with us - if you will, which will have the effect of shortening - well, first of all, I'm deciding whether to call him or not and also whether we can limit the questioning and may we ask you to the adjournment now?

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take the adjournment now and resume at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos?