Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR DU TOIT: "During the early 80s the Government publicity and propaganda machine was also operating full time.  One just has to think of the speeches made by political leaders like P W Botha, Magnus Malan and other Cabinet Ministers.  Everything revolved around the so-called "swart kaffir," the communist and terrorist.  Terms like Black Consciousness and Solidarity were turned into something negative.  I believed that which I now see to be propaganda."

MR DU TOIT: You are speaking of perceptions which were created.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: /Deal with

MR DU TOIT: Deal with paragraph 86 please.

MR DU TOIT: "We were led to believe that Nelson Mandela was and portrayed to be as being a monster, a communist, and a violent man.  One can now see the deception and the disinformation that was fed to us.  Robert MacBride was put under the same kind until I met him at Westville Prison in 1992.  Having exchanged ideas and views with him my perceptions changed.  Likewise with Mr Mandela.  I am very sorry that the changes that have taken place with the elections did not take place 10 years ago."

MR DU TOIT: Now, you have dealt with what happened, inter alia that you were brought into contact with askaris.  What did you learn from this contact, Mr Mitchell?

WITNESS:   During the briefings that we had with the askaris we were allowed to address them and ask them questions regarding MK tactics and strategies.  I also came to understand that the UDF was the internal wing of the ANC, and that the Comrades were the internally or locally trained fighters for the ANC.  These sessions were normally arranged by the Security Branch from head office or headquarters in Pretoria, and they normally took place at Milierskop during our training or refresher courses.

MR DU TOIT: Now, let us just deal - at this stage you completed a diploma in police administration on a part-time study basis, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: And you were promoted to the rank of lieutenant in December of 1985.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: /You then

MR DU TOIT: You then went to Zimbabwe, the border, and there was

MR DU TOIT: a short period at head office in Pretoria, police head office, before you were transferred back to Natal.

WITNESS:  That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Now, just to set the record straight, in this short period at police head office there you did administrative work.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: You were then at the Loop Street Police Station for a small while, and then became attached to the Divisional Headquarters in Pietermaritzburg.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Please let us deal in a little bit more detail now with this aspect.  How many districts are there in the Pietermaritzburg divisional area?  You set that out, for convenience, Mr Chairperson, in paragraph 89.

WITNESS:   It is divided into Kokstad, Ladysmith, Greytown and Pietermaritzburg.

MR DU TOIT: It would include the Natal Midlands?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: You have already said that you started working at Divisional Headquarters from approximately February '87, that you were the staff officer, and that you became the secretary of the Joint Management System.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Now, have you met Captain Terblanche before you became attached to the headquarters?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.  I met him when I accompanied the commanding officer of the Riot Unit in Durban and the commanding officer of the Riot Unit here in Pietermaritzburg to Pretoria.  That was the first time that I met him.

MR DU TOIT: Were there two Riot Units in the Natal area, one in Durban and one in Pietermaritzburg?

WITNESS:   Divisional

MR DU TOIT: /Riot Units,

MR DU TOIT: Riot Units, yes.

MR DU TOIT: So the Durban Divisional Headquarters would have had its own Riot Unit attached to those quarters.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: You have already said that you worked closely with a Captain Terblanche at the headquarters.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Now, in paragraph 92 you give a brief summary of a Joint Management System.  It's a helpful summary in my view.  Would you just take the Committee through that please.

WITNESS:   Okay.

MR DU TOIT: "The Joint Management System is a counter revolutionary strategy implemented at the time in our history.  It was a system that worked up from station level to the State Security Council.  The system was run jointly by the South African Defence Force and the South African Police.  It consisted of various Government departments, which were accountable to the Joint Management Committee in matters of security and stability.  Most of the terminology was in Afrikaans.  At station level you would have a Plaaslike Bestuur Sentrum."

MR DU TOIT: Just stop there.

WITNESS:   That is the Local Management Centre of which you were the chairperson as a result of your capacity of station commander in New Hanover.   ---   That is correct.  Then there's the ... (intervention)

MR DU TOIT: District level.

WITNESS:   At district level is the

MR DU TOIT: /Mini JMC.

MR DU TOIT: Mini JMC.

MR DU TOIT: And at divisional level?

WITNESS:   You have the Sub JMC.

MR DU TOIT: And there would have been 12 country wide, as we will see in a minute, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: And the Joint Management Committee sat at Natal Command of the SADF in Durban.

MR DU TOIT: The Joint Divisional Management Committee of Natal would have sat at the Natal Command in Durban at SADF.  Is that what you're saying?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Let's just get that clear.  Could you go to page - in Volume II to page 334 please.  334 in Volume II.  This, to just place it on record, is an annexure which was attached to the documents which you have collectively called annexure B, and which you found in the Divisional Headquarters of Pietermaritzburg, is that correct?

WITNESS:  That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: If you go to page - whilst you keep your finger at page 334, Mr Mitchell, would you just go to page 329 under paragraph 3 (2).  It's says, "Diagram by die instellings by die filosofie moet uit voor ande."  That would be a diagram which shows the institutions which should implement the philosophy of a joint management system, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: That then is the document with is called bylae B or annexure B on page 334, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Can we just deal with this diagram?  Firstly this diagram shows - if we can start from the bottom.  (Pause)  I apologise, I just wanted to ascertain when the tea break

MR DU TOIT: /is because

MR DU TOIT: is because I would like to finish this, but I understand it will only be at 11.15.  I will be able to finish it.  I would not want to interrupt the chain of thought here.

MR DU TOIT: If you start at the bottom the first column says, 12 by what is called GBS.  The English translation would be Joint Management Centres.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: One of the 12, as you have already said, would have been the Pietermaritzburg Divisional Joint Management Centre.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: That would consist, each of those, is that correct, - according to the diagram each of these centres would consist of what is called GIK.  That is a - I won't give the Afrikaans wording, but is it correct - I was informed that that would be the Joint Information Committee?

WITNESS:  That is correct.  It was made up of subcommittees.

MR DU TOIT: Ja.  The Divisional Joint Centre is made up of four subcommittees.

WITNESS:   Yes, it had four subcommittees with it, one on ... (intervention)

MR DU TOIT: The first - yes?

WITNESS:   One on information, the first one.  The second was on security.

MR DU TOIT: Security Committee.

WITNESS:   The third one was for ... (intervention)