Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1998-10-22

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: With regards to Kanyile's case, we had a mission to accomplish in one of the bars at Port Edward, that is where people will go and drink, the whites.  It was a bar where they will usually go for their drinks.
	The problem we had was transport.  We did not have a car or vehicle to use to get there to accomplish, to further the mission.
	Sebata was a Commander at that time.  He came up with a plan that we should by all means necessary get a car.  In other words, we will have to disguise, we agreed amongst ourselves that we will go to Durban and hire a taxi and pretend as people or as students of UNITRA, coming from UNITRA visiting here in Durban, visiting UDW, the University of Durban Westville.
	Indeed we went to that taxi.  Sebata was the one who was our spokesman, he spoke to the taxi driver and said to the taxi driver we are the students from Transkei, visiting the University of Durban Westville and now we will like to go back to UDW.  How much will you charge us for that distance and the driver said I will charge you R40-00.  Sebata took out some cash and we got inside the taxi.
	The one was sitting in front, in front of the steering wheel was Sipho, to drive the vehicle.  Right next to or behind the driver was myself, and right next to myself in the centre was Sebata.
	The extreme left, on my extreme left was Kushukushu.  We were four in number.
	We got inside that taxi and the taxi left.  We took of from Point in Durban, headed towards Westville until we got to a turn off of Westville, from the freeway.  I think it was roughly about 350 to 500 metres, before we reached the security gate of Durban Westville, the University that is.
	Sebata told me that I should be the one who will approach the driver.  The reason was the driver was a Zulu speaking person and Sebata was not conversant in Zulu, he was a Xhosa.
	Now, Sebata wanted me to convey the message to the driver as we were speaking in the same language.  That was the reason and Sebata gave me a gun as he was telling me that message as well.  So, he told me that I will scare the driver off by this gun.  I approached the driver and said we are soldiers of APLA and we will like to get your vehicle to go and conduct our mission,  we will bring your car back.
	He resisted.  The driver that is, and at that time, the car was no longer in order driving straight, it was going side by side.  He could not control the car, and the gun had already been cocked and I was not aware of that fact.  The gun was locked and I was not aware and it was just at that time when I touched the trigger and the driver got shot and I was right behind him.
	I was scared, I had to try and control the vehicle before it could overturn.  Fortunately I was able to get the car to a stop and we had to get off.  The car was already damaged and we decided that we should take the very same car, discard of the body and drive the same car and we could not go any further because the car was already damaged, so it could not take the strain.  We had to park and go on foot and locate the public telephones to call a friend to come and fetch us from where we were.
	Indeed he came and we drove back to Transkei.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Just at that instance, the shooting of the driver, were you going to shoot the driver if he was not going to, if he refused to give you the car?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: No.  Our intention was to get the car so that we could go and do our mission, the organisation's mission.  Please you should know one thing, that car was in full speed.  There was no way I could kill the driver, taking into consideration the speed of the car, because also our lives, we would have been exposed to danger, and the vehicle as well would have been badly damaged, and the mission obviously wouldn't have been accomplished, or we would not even attempt to accomplish the mission.
	So shooting the driver was not part of our plan, not at all.  This is why I am saying that it was a mistake that I touched the trigger, not being aware.  The reason why I took off the gun, was to scare him off, not intending the shoot.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Ngema, now that this thing happened and you killed the driver, what do you say to that?  The family of the driver ...

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: It is hurting, it is painful.  The death of a person is not an easy thing, especially killing a person whom we had no negative plans about.  It is not easy to bear, it is painful.  I am sympathising with his children and with his family as well.
	The truth is that this was not intended, it was not our intention.  All we wanted from him was the car, so that we could go and conduct the mission, but the fact that we ended killing him, was a serious mistake.  It was not intentional.
	To the family or to his family, I would like to convey this, I am very sorry.  It was not because we wanted to kill him.  We did not even know the poor person.  It was the first time we had an encounter with him, or we saw him.  All we wanted was his car.
	I am sorry, I would like to apologise in a very, very special way to the members of his family.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all Mr Chairperson.

MR MBANDAZAYO: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes Mr Chairman and members of the Committee, it is only with regard to incident two, the last he has testified about.
	Mr Ngema, was Dysia Muxaba and John Gumedi not present when this incident took place?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: Dysia was phoned, in other words we phoned for him to come and fetch us because we were in trouble.  As far as John Gumedi is concerned, I had already made mention of him, but he is Sipho.  That is the one I mentioned, Sipho.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You mentioned a person by the name of Kushukushu, is he also known as Stimela?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: Yes, he is also known as Stimela.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What are his full names?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: With the names, I have some difficulty because at the time, we were using pseudonyms.  Like myself, I was known commonly as so and so and so many other names, like for instance Leklapa.  The first time I realised that his name is Leklapa Mpashlele, it was when he was arrested.
	Before I used to know him as my overall, for his real name to come to the surface, it was only recent, in other words, all along as we were working with him, or relating to him, we were relating to him as my overall.  This very guy as well, Kushukushu, I will not be in a position to say it was his real name or a pseudonym or a code name for instance.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You have just in conclusion, showed some remorse about the killing of this innocent taxi driver and mentioned that it was really a mistake.  He as not the target.

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: He was not the target, yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I noted in the Court judgement on sentence, that the Judge had ordered that you pay a certain amount, I think R20 000 for a sentenced to be halved.  Do you remember that?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: Yes, that happened.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That was not done?  The payment that is?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: I never paid that amount of money, but I took that and presented that to the organisation, because as an individual, there was no way I could have raised that much money and there was no way, I could pay that money myself as if it was my mission.
	It was not my mission, I had no interest in that as a person or as an individual, but it was the organisation's mission.  It was in the interest of the organisation, not in my interest as an individual.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: If you were remorseful, what was then the attitude of the organisation?

MDUDUZI CYRIL NGEMA: You mean which attitude, what attitude are you talking about?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: How did the organisation respond to this remorse and to the question of paying the R20 000, to show that you are indeed remorseful?