Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-17

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman and members of the Committee this is the application of Nsitsikelo Don Johnson who is seeking amnesty in respect of attempted murder and the illegal possession of a firearm.
	The Investigative Unit informed me during January that they had been, at my request, to see the victim, who is Mrs Nomsa Hanabe, with the view to obtaining a statement from her. She, however, declined to make a statement and advised the investigator that she was not interested in the amnesty or the Truth Commission, so she was completely uncooperative.    Nonetheless, she has been served by registered post with a Form to a Notice and I don't know whether she is here but I very much doubt it.   I would just call her name.   Is Mrs Nomsa Hanabe here?   She is not present.
	I understand that the applicant, for moral reasons, does not want to take the oath so he would be affirmed or affirmation administered to him.  
	I just leave my learned friend to place himself on record.

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: (affirms)

MR BLOEM: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Members of the Committee, I confirm that I appear on behalf of the applicant Nsitsikelo Don Johnson in this matter.  I only this morning became aware of the fact that only a handwritten application was made available to you.   I have caused copies of the typed application to be made available.  Can I find out, Mr Chairman, EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	68	MR JOHNSON
whether you have a copy of that?

HASSAN MALL: We now do have.   Thank you.

MR BLOEM: I am sorry about that.  I was totally unaware of it.
	Mr Chairman, from Annexure A to the application you will note that the applicant does not state the facts surrounding the offences for which he seeks amnesty.  The intention is to lead the applicant in that regard and to contextualise the events.
May I proceed to leading the applicant in that regard?

HASSAN MALL: Before you do that, I think Mr Brink you appreciate the position that in applications of this kind at least one of the requirements is that an applicant must set out the detail of the offence and how it was committed, in respect of which he is seeking amnesty. Very well.

MR BLOEM: Mr Johnson, these offences were committed in Uitenhage.  Is that correct?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Yes it is so.

MR BLOEM: But they were planned in Klipplaat?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Yes it is so.

MR BLOEM: Now what is your connection to Klipplaat?   What were you doing in Klipplaat at the time?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: I am originally from Uitenhage.  I grew up in Uitenhage.  I have family members in Klipplaat, my brother and my aunt.   This is how I went to Klipplaat.
	Also in matters of the struggle they would connect me with Klipplaat.

MR BLOEM: You were schooling in Klipplaat.  Correct?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Yes I was schooling in Klipplaat.

MR BLOEM: And in that school did you hold any position be it in social organisations or any other organisations related to the school?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: I was a founding member of the SRC, I was elected EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	69	MR JOHNSON
as the President of the SRC at school.

MR BLOEM: And in the broader community, did you hold any
positions?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: I was a member of the African National Congress Youth League.  I was an organiser also in the SACP.  Those were the organisations that were accessible to us at the time.

MR BLOEM: That was your position.  What was the position of Mrs Hanabe in the community of Klipplaat?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: She was a Deputy Principal at my school.  She was also a Mayoress at Klipplaat.   These are the people that we referred to as 'puppets'.

MR BLOEM: And what was your attitude and the attitude of the organisations which you represented towards people like Mrs Hanabe at the time?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: In the entire South Africa they were seen as people who were terribly unrighteous, because they facilitated the oppressive ways of the apartheid era in our communities.

MR BLOEM: Was there any cooperation between your
organisation and Mrs Hanabe?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: No not at all.   What Mrs Hanabe did it was just for herself.  She was not representing and working for the interests of the community.  She just wanted to see the people of Klipplaat on their knees.

JUDGE WILSON: I didn't hear that last word, "wanted to see the people of Klipplaat...."

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: She wanted to see the people of Klipplaat on their knees.

HASSAN MALL: Why if she was the Mayoress, would she want people on their knees?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Because people did not like her as she did not care for anyone.   There was a discrepancy between the two groups.  EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	70	MR JOHNSON
She would tell the people that there was nothing that she would do for them.  These were the things that she would say.  She had no interest at heart for the people of Klipplaat.
(The speaker's microphone is not on.)

MR BLOEM: There was a call for Councillors to resign during that period, is that correct?

HASSAN MALL: By who?

MR BLOEM: Maybe the witness, Mr Johnson should tell us.  Let me rephrase it, is it correct that there was a call by the community at large for Councillors to resign in Klipplaat?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Yes it is true.  There were boycotts, so that these puppet people could resign.

MR BLOEM: Did the Councillors resign?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Some of them did resign.  She is the only one who told us that she would never resign and she would continue with her job as she pleased, whether the community liked that or not.

MR BLOEM: Like for instance cutting off the water supply to people?   Is it correct that when she refused to resign she retaliated by causing peoples' water supply to be cut off?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: When she realised that most of the community was against her she retaliated by stopping the water supply and also the bucket system that was used for toilets in Klipplaat was stunted.

MR BLOEM: As a result of that there was a mass meeting which was held in Klipplaat, is it correct?   Can you tell us what decision was taken at that mass meeting?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: As the community was trying to make her resign, we than decided as the community at the meeting that if we want her out of the way she should be eliminated.  That was the
conclusion.

JUDGE WILSON: A meeting of who was this?
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	71	MR JOHNSON

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: It was a mass meeting.  There were a lot of people.  I was one of the people who was at the meeting.

JUDGE WILSON: Who organised the meeting?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: The Peoples' Organisation.

JUDGE WILSON: Who is that?   Who is the Peoples' Organisation?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: The African National Congress.

JUDGE WILSON: It took you a long time to say that, are you trying to conceal things?   Why did you not tell me at the beginning that it was organised by the ANC?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: I did not realise that you were specifically asking for the name of the organisation.

JUDGE WILSON: My question to you was who organised the meeting.  I couldn't have been much clearer than that could I?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Johnson, who in the ANC convened that meeting.? Was it the Chairperson of the local branch of the ANC who convened that meeting?  Was it a meeting convened by the ANC Youth League in the community?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: It was comrade Jongikaya Lucas and comrade Mannetjie Blaauw.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Who are they Mr Johnson?  Were they members of the ANC?  Did they hold any particular office?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Comrade Lucas was the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League so they did hold certain seats within the ANC.

JUDGE WILSON: Was this meeting arranged by the ANC Youth League?

NSITSIKELO DON JOHNSON: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Is this the meeting which was convened on the 12
February 1991?