Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-23

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I believed that if we did not do anything the elections would take place and our chief objective was to stop the elections so that the black majority government would not come into power because this is what would happen if the elections took place. And we did everything in our power to stop the elections. We did not want them to take place.

MR PRINSLOO: In as far as it affected the AWB did the AWB approve of the elections which were forthcoming?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No it went as far as the AWB saying along with certain Generals in the Defence Force and Ferdi Hartzenberg and the Conservative Party the war would be initiated against the government of the day and the new government which would come from the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: Would you have committed the same actions on that evening is it had not been an order?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No I would not have done anything like that out of my own. I acted upon orders of the officers.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you draw any benefit from those actions?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you act out of racism in any way?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No it was not a question of racism. We even let certain IFP members let go. If it had been pure racism we would have shot them as well. Which we did not do. Our target was the ANC/SACP Alliance.

MR PRINSLOO: While you were in prison, at any point were protest marches held by the AWB where they demanded release of the prisoners?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct I still have a poster which I received as a memento from the people.

MR PRINSLOO: Could you just open that up and show it to the Committee? Please turn it this way so that we can read it? Whose photo appears on that poster?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: It is a photo of me.

MR PRINSLOO: Might we refer to that as Exhibit B Chairperson. Who issued that poster?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: General Oelofse collected money for the printing of these posters during a protest march in Potchefstroom. Posters were shown to the people.

CHAIRPERSON: I do not follow the answer to the question.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Matthews just to explain once more you said that the poster was printed by Mr Oelofse or under the instruction of Mr Oelofse and the poster was used during a protest march in Potchefstroom. For what purpose?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: The AWB asked that we be released as freedom fighters. Mr Terreblanche at times did appear in parliament where he demanded that the soldiers be released. I think this is what led to the printing of that poster in a demand for our release.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Matthews can you please indicate why your photograph was placed on the poster?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: A photo was taken of each and everyone of us for the posters. It was not only a photo of me.

ADV BOSMAN: So therefore there are several posters with photos of each and everyone of you? Only your group or any other AWB members?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I am not certain whether there were any other people. Obviously we were not there to witness the printing of these posters.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you honourable Chair. That completes the testimony.

MR PRINSLOO: .

CHAIRPERSON: I think this is a convenient stage to adjourn until half past nine tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION: 24 APRIL 1998 - DAY4

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: 24th April the Committee consists as before. The same matters. Is Mr Dreyer here?

MR DREYER: I am yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you now joining us?

MR DREYER: Mr Chairman and members of the Committee (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: You may remain seated. We remain seated here in these proceedings.

MR DREYER: I appear on behalf of Jappie Oelofse together with my attorney of record. He is on his way. Unfortunately has not yet arrived, apparently he had a problem with his vehicle. Judge I have not been here yesterday because I only received instruction late during the afternoon due to certain problems. First of all when my client received notification that there might be some incriminating statements contained in the applications that is presently before the Committee, he was merely informed that, that would be forthcoming from the evidence of Mr Kloppers. And arrangements were then made and I express my gratitude to the Committee for doing so, to have Mr Kloppers tend his evidence at a later stage and not at the outset. Although that would have most probably be the logical thing to do.
	But I have been informed that during the course of the evidence that was tendered yesterday by more than one witness certain incriminating evidence was in fact advanced against Mr Oelofse. Obviously I have not had any insight to that and in view of the fact that we have only informed of the fact that he would have been incriminated by the evidence of Kloppers, it is my respectful submission that we would be entitled to the opportunity to cross-examine those witnesses in so far as he might have been incriminated. I have not obviously been in a position to ascertain when the record of such evidence would be available. So in that sense I would respectfully submit to be afforded the opportunity to once such a record is available to request recall of such witnesses in order to cross-examine them. That is firstly.
	Then secondly the other logistical problem that we had is only yesterday because of a direct request to a lady by the surname of Haskins did my attorney of record receive the affidavits in the applications of or the statement and affidavit of Kloppers. Which I only received yesterday afternoon. And I have in fact worked through that in order to be prepared on that. I also only received the criminal proceedings against Martin and Kloppers in the High Court yesterday. So as far as that is concerned I am prepared to proceed with my cross-examination of Kloppers. I also been informed that Martin have already concluded his evidence. So in view of that Mr Chairman I would then submit that as far as the evidence that has been completed I would reserve my right as stated. If there is any witness and I am informed that one of the witnesses is currently being in a position of giving his evidence. I would obviously proceed with my cross-examination on that. That is more or less the background of what I had to offer. Thank you.