Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

WITNESS:   He was asking me as to why he had been killed - why my husband had been killed.  He must have belonged to a certain political organization.  They suspected that he was a member of the IFP.

MRS GCABASHE:  Tell us briefly about the rally.  Was it on the very same day that your husband got killed?

WITNESS:   I don't know anything about the rally.  I never spoke about the rally.  I knew nothing about the rally.

MRS GCABASHE:  In your statement there is something that is said about the rally.  Now, the Commission does not have the powers to promise people or to promise to deliver to people whatever they want, but we take your request.

WITNESS:  I would request the Commission to help my children to further their education.

MRS GCABASHE:  What are the names of the police who came and took the statement?  Do you perhaps know them?

WITNESS:   No, they were white policemen.

KHOZA MGOJO: Please do not make noise.  Contain yourselves.  Give some respect to the victim, because you are disturbing the victim.  You are talking and making noise whilst she is rendering her testimony.  So we urge you to keep quiet and be supportive and respectful to the witness.  We urge you, please, to refrain from such actions.  We have been going around the whole of South Africa and we haven't met with such behaviour.  Our duty is to listen, so that when we go back we will give a full and comprehensive report so that may encourage others to come forward and tell their stories, but you are not making any good example.

MRS GCABASHE: As you had already pointed out, there was nothing that came out of the case.  Do you perhaps know who took the statement?

WITNESS:   No, they never spoke to me but they spoke to my husband's elder brother. Did the case ever proceed to court?  Where was the policeman coming from?   ---   From KwaMbonambi Police Station.

MRS GCABASHE:  Thank you very much, Nozipho.  We do understand that you've gone through so much pain.  The manner in which your husband died leaves a lot to be desired in our society.  As I have already told you, we do not have the powers to promise anything, but we do take these suggestions and make recommendations to the State President and the State President reaches a decision as to how people like you should be helped.   Have you ever been to the welfare people?  Did you go and tell them that you are not employed and you are trained to knit jerseys, but you are not succeeding?

WITNESS:   I have been told about the welfare offices, but I do not know how to go about getting such help.  I don't know where the welfare offices are and  I don't have full information that I can utilise, in order to get the help that is available.

MRS GCABASHE: I'll give you advice.  You will see the welfare people so that they can assist you with your efforts, especially with trying to sell the jerseys.  I'll hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Magwaza.

PROF MAGWAZA: I'm just going to ask you one question.  Probably what I might have asked or should have asked from other witnesses.  As you give your testimony, you look very tense and not free.  It's as if you are evading the topic of political organizations.  Is the situation still tense even now, that when you come to the Truth Commission to give testimony you fear that your life might be in danger?

WITNESS:   I'm not afraid of anyone, but we do not trust each other within the community, because if you go to the Truth Commission and speak about a certain organization you pose a problem for yourself.

PROF MAGWAZA: I can understand that because it does happen that certain things which are written on the statements are not said when the witness gives testimony, but if you want to avoid these lines that you made in the statement, that is quite acceptable.

CHAIRPERSON: Just one last question, Mrs Mthethwa.  We've heard from other witnesses that Sokhulu is divided into areas which are ANC and areas which are IFP.  Were you and your husband living in the ANC area of Sokhulu or the IFP area, or isn't that area divided like that?

WITNESS:   We were staying at KwaSokhulu.

CHAIRPERSON:  And is it divided into IFP and ANC areas?

WITNESS:   We were staying in an ANC stronghold.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mthethwa, thank you very much for coming in.  Mrs Gcabashe has summed up quite adequately, so I won't take the matter any further, save to say again thank you for coming in - being brave enough to come and sit on the stage, tell us your story.  We will, through our investigative unit, try to find out more about your husband's death, if that'll assist you, but, of course, we cannot promise that we will be successful.  We have so many hundreds and hundreds of incidents like this - murders - to investigate from all over KwaZulu/Natal and the Free State.  But we will try and make investigations from the KwaMbonambi police into your husband's case.  Thank you very much for coming today.

CHAIRPERSON: We are going to have a short break now, where the witnesses and the staff will have tea, and we will come back after twenty minutes.  Unfortunately, tea cannot be provided for members of the public, so just take a break outside, stretch your legs and please come in within twenty minutes.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
4A/0 ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Mrs Taliwe.  Can you hear me?  Can you understand me?

ZANELE TALIWE: Yes, I hear you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We welcome you here today.  You've come to tell us about the death in 1992 of your husband.  Before you tell us that story, please can you stand to take the oath?

ZANELE TALIWE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mrs Gcabashe will help you now.

MRS GCABASHE: Good day, Cecilia.  I can see that you were still very young when this happened.  I thank you for your courage and your bravery to come up here before this Commission and give evidence, so that we know what happened and how our people were tortured and tormented and their human rights were violated.  I'll just ask you a few questions in regard to your family.  Can you tell us whether you have any parents, whether you have any children and are you employed or not.

WITNESS:   I have five children.  It's four boys and one girl.   I have four boys and one girl.  How old are they?   ---   My first-born was born in 1979, my second-born 1980 and my third-born 1983, my fourth-born 1989, and my last-born was born in 1991. How many are still at school?   ---   All are still at school, but my last-born is still at nursery school.

MRS GCABASHE:  How old is the last-born?

WITNESS:   He was born in 1991.  The one who was born in 1979 is in standard 9.  They are both in standard 9, as well as the on who was born in 1980, and the one who was born in 1983 is doing standard 6.  The one who was born in 1989 is grade 1, and the last one is at nursery school.

MRS GCABASHE:  Are you employed?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

MRS GCABASHE:  Where are you working?

WITNESS:   I'm a teacher at Mnchangole.

MRS GCABASHE:  Do you still have parents?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have a mother.  My father passed away.

MRS GCABASHE:  I shall ask you to give us a brief background as to what was happening in that particular place, which culminated in the death of your husband.

WITNESS:   There were rumours that he was going to be killed.  People kept on telling him.  Then we received anonymous telephone calls, threatening him with death.  Some would come to our home looking for him but, fortunately, he would be at work.  On this particular day before he died he said he wanted to go and see his father.  After watching the 7 o'clock news he wanted to go and see his father, who was still at Dlangezwa.  He took Vusi along and Vusi was supposed to be accompanying him.

MRS GCABASHE:  Who is Vusi?

WITNESS:   It was a friend of his who was ... (inaudible).

MRS GCABASHE:  You can go on.