Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-18

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I am equally appalled myself that you as a senior member of your  division can come to this Commission and tell us  that an investigation after an events in which seven men were killed was sub standard and unprofessional, I am equally appalled thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Ms Burton.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Chairperson, I'll try not to be too long - I just have one or two factual questions and one has to do with the question of the timing, I know you said you were not absolutely clear about what time you arrived on the scene.
 When you arrived Major Brits was already there, I think that's what you said.

MR KNIPE: Correct.

MARY BURTON: And he instructed you to take certain actions.

MR KNIPE: Correct.

MARY BURTON: But he was in charge of the investigation is that correct.

MR KNIPE: Correct.

MARY BURTON: He has said that he did not arrive on the scene until 803 I think, I speak under correction, could that tally with your account of the timing?

MR KNIPE: My time could be wrong.

MARY BURTON: But it is correct that he was already on the scene and when you arrived you were told that he was in charge and [intervention]

MR KNIPE: My recall is when I arrived there, I remember seeing Brits - Brits from our Unit, Mbele and I arrived together - yes Brits was on the scene where I got there.

MARY BURTON: Thank you, now you've told us about some of the steps you took putting individual items in individual bags and all that sort of thing - was recording the place where the various vehicles were part of that investigation?

MR KNIPE: Ma'am I never said I put it in black bags.

MARY BURTON: No - no  - no I said plastic bags.

MR KNIPE: Sorry I thought you said black bags.

MARY BURTON: No.

MR KNIPE: No I didn't - I can recall only two vehicles really that was the Kombi in the middle of the road.

MARY BURTON: Have you got a sketch plan in front of you.

MR KNIPE: I believe that would have probably have been Vehicle H.

MARY BURTON: Marked H right.

MR KNIPE: That was a Kombi where people had been in that were shocked, there was a body lying next to the vehicle and there was a tremendous amount of blood that is the blood that I washed from the street.

MARY BURTON: Right that was Mr  Konile.

MR KNIPE: And then I can remember the Vehicle A if that is the vehicle that were Brazelle was in.

MARY BURTON: That's right - those are the only two vehicles you remember.

MR KNIPE: Now those are  the only two vehicles that I can recall.

MARY BURTON: I wanted to ask you about the vehicle [intervention]

MR KNIPE: And then there was a  - at a stage there was also a Casspir because when we - that's right - remember correctly when we pulled the body over we placed the Casspir between us and the body.

MARY BURTON: I wanted to ask you if you had noted the position of the Vehicle marked J but it seems that you don't remember that.

MR KNIPE: Perhaps if you could enlighten me what type of vehicle that was, I might be able to assist you.

MARY BURTON: I think that was also a Kombi - am I - can I just check with my fellow Commissioners - that was the Kombi which it is alleged that Mbelo was in.

MR KNIPE: I think there was a blue and white Kombi - I think H was a blue Kombi and I think there was a white Kombi but I couldn't adamant on that madam.

MARY BURTON: H is the Kombi I believe that was alleged to have been stolen and did you have to follow up any of that information?

MR KNIPE: No.

MARY BURTON: No - thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you Ms Burton, anymore questions from the panel - advocate Van Zyl.

ADV VAN ZYL: Thank you Chairperson - Inspector Knipe you told the Commission that you were mustered that morning at Murder and Robbery at about 730 is that correct?

MR KNIPE: That is correct.

ADV VAN ZYL: You know Sergeant Tommy Hendricks.

MR KNIPE: I know Tommy Hendricks well.

ADV VAN ZYL: Was he also a member of Murder and Robbery at the time?

MR KNIPE: He was.

ADV VAN ZYL: And do you know whether he was mustered with you that morning?

MR KNIPE: I cannot recall that - I presume he must have been.

ADV VAN ZYL: The mustering normally if you go on duty in the morning is everybody is suppose to be there.

MR KNIPE: That is - well expect for the members who are out on particular assignments.

ADV VAN ZYL: Thank you Mr Chairman I have no further questions for  Director Knipe.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Well I think for the moment Director Knipe you are excused and if there is any cause for you to be - to be needed in evidence we will call upon you.  We have taken note of your concerns about subpoena's and perceptions that there is.

MR KNIPE: Thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: And without saying that we will not use a subpoena again, we - we might have to try another method in view of your remarks, thank you.

MR KNIPE: A phone call sir and I will be here.