Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-13

UNKNOWN: Which is a very different version to one which says that the project was in fact taken away from Maree and given to you.

MR VAN ZYL: I do not know where you get this version from, because this is not what I said.

UNKNOWN: I know it's not what you said, but I'm putting to you that that is a version and I'm asking if that is a version, is it an untrue version?

MR VAN ZYL: According to my knowledge I do not know about it, so I would say that it is an untrue version.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You would have known if you were made in charge of the project, surely.

MR VAN ZYL: Certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: And what you're telling us is that as far as you're concerned you were just merely a facilitator, in the sense of providing people who had recruited, to assist Chappie Maree in his project.

MR VAN ZYL: Absolutely correct.

UNKNOWN: Can I ask you then to look at Staal Burger's amnesty application at page 144 of bundle A.  Now maybe we should just start at the bottom of page 143, under the heading "The Gavin Evans Incident".  It says that Gavin Evans came under the attention of the CCB, and for that reason it was decided to monitor him to see if he was involved in activities which undermined the security of the State, correct?  That's what he says.

MR VAN ZYL: I read it like that, yes.

UNKNOWN: He then says one of the members of Region 6 received an order to monitor Evans, and obtained his details concerning his home and work address, but before he could go over to monitoring him, it was decided to send him to a foreign country to be involved in another project.  Now your version is certainly at the initial stages this was Chappie Maree's project.

MR VAN ZYL: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: We can infer, although Staal Burger doesn't mention the name of who the member was, that to the best of your knowledge the first person who was instructed to deal with Evans in Region 6, was Maree.

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: So that the member of Region 6 who's being referred to there in the first instance, is Chappie Maree.

MR VAN ZYL: I believe so.

UNKNOWN: Right.  What he goes on to say is the following
"Hereafter the project was handed over to another member of Region 6, to be further dealt with."
Now the only person that we know who had other dealings with this project, is you.

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: So we can infer that the person who he's saying that the project was handed over to, was you.

MR VAN ZYL: I agree.

UNKNOWN: Now Mr Maree also says that you're not telling the truth about this project.  If we go to page 29 of the bundle, volume A, it's his amnesty application, if you could just read paragraph 4 and 5 of his statement.
MR VAN ZYL
"During approximately March of 1989, I received in instruction to monitor Mr Gavin Evans, in order to determine whether he was involved in undermining activities against the State.  I was aware that if I could find any proof which indicated that Evans was indeed involved in undermining activities against the State, possible action would be taken against him and that such action could be of a violent nature and could lead to his elimination.  I however never received any instruction to take any steps with regard to the possible violent action against Gavin Evans.  Before I could execute my instruction to monitor Gavin Evans, I received instructions to execute a project outside South Africa and the Gavin Evans project was taken away from me."
Paragraph 5:
"I later heard that one, Abram, Slang, testified before the Harms Commission that plans had indeed been made for the elimination of Mr Gavin Evans.  I was not involved in the making of any such plans or any attempt to execute such plans."

UNKNOWN: ...(inaudible) your version and his are entirely contradictory, in the sense that you say that Chappie Maree was in charge of a project involving the elimination of Gavin Evans, correct?

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: So if he says he was never involved in the framing of any plans to murder Gavin Evans, he's not telling the truth.

MR VAN ZYL: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: But you will notice that both Chappie Maree and Staal Burger are in agreement that the project was handed on to you and that the reason the project was handed on to you was because Mr Maree had to become involved in a foreign project.

MR VAN ZYL: That is there versions, it may be so.  I already said how I became involved and what my role was.

UNKNOWN: And they are two out of the three people who were present at that meeting.

MR VAN ZYL: Correct.

UNKNOWN: Can you think of any reason why they would want to invent a version saying that the project was handed on to you?

MR VAN ZYL: I do not know, they say the project was handed over to me, they never said that I did a pre-study in these statements, according to what I can see.  What they meant by that you'll have to ask Mr Burger and Mr Maree, then we will hear.

CHAIRPERSON: Just on this one - sorry, if I may put something else to him.
	On page 145, Mr van Zyl, it says, talking about the Gavin Evans project, this is Mr Burger's application:
"A pre-study was then done with the aim of executing Mr Gavin Evans' elimination and the study was done by Abram van Zyl and was submitted for approval."

MR VAN ZYL: I see that, I deny that I did any pre-study on Evans.

CHAIRPERSON: Or that you made any presentation of any pre-study at all?

MR VAN ZYL: That is correct, Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: But Mr van Zyl, you know what we've heard up to now is that the person who would be involved in the execution of the project, would be integrally involved in the preparation of the pre-study.  Because you would be the man who would know, 'look I've got these guys from the Cape who I can use, I suggest, given their capabilities, that it be done in such and such a way, at such and such a place, at such and such a time'.

MR VAN ZYL: I agree with you entirely.

UNKNOWN: Do you agree with me that even though it's logical, the truth of the fact is you say that it never happened in that way?

MR VAN ZYL: That's exactly so.

UNKNOWN: Was any preparatory study done concerning Evans, that you're aware of, as to time, place and method?

MR VAN ZYL: I do not know.

UNKNOWN: Well what was said to you at the
meeting?

MR VAN ZYL: Well at the meeting it was told to me that there was already an approved project for the elimination of Evans, that he had to be killed with a knife so that it appears to be a robbery.  His residential address was given to me, and that was it.

UNKNOWN: Now the amount that was going to be paid to the murderers, was R5 000, correct?

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: Which is one third of the amount that had been allocated to be paid to all those involved in the murder of Dullah Omar, correct?

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: Was this because there was less risk involved or because Mr Evans was a less important figure than Mr Omar?

MR VAN ZYL: I cannot comment on that, I would believe that Mr Evans did not have such a high profile, it's clear that he did not have such a high profile as Mr Omar, but I did not decide on the amount of R5 000.

UNKNOWN: Now you made an earlier statement concerning this event, which is materially different, I just want to refer you to that.  If you can go please to page 58 of bundle B, paragraph 4.  What you said there is the following
"Michael Gavin Evans was a member of the ECCFFF and other radical bodies.  Gordon and Ferdi worked on the person just to obtain information.  The project was jeopardised when security placed limitations on him."

MR VAN ZYL: I read that, yes.

UNKNOWN: Now that's false.

MR VAN ZYL: Absolutely.

UNKNOWN: Would you care to comment on why you made that false statement under oath?

MR VAN ZYL: I would just like to read the rest of the paragraph.

UNKNOWN: Sure.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you need the rest read into the record or not, or are you going to read it later, Mr Kahanovitz?