Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MS D CHILI: I was involved in the community because around my area people used to come to me to report problems if they have problems which in return I would go to the ...[inaudible] of the women - that is the federation of the women, if I can't solve it myself but I was somehow involved.
 Even when the children were injured during those days, I would be called upon to rush them to the hospital where maybe their identity would be hidden so that the police don't follow them to the hospitals.

MR UNTERHALTER: And were these women's groups affiliated or associated to the UDF?

MS D CHILI: Yes, it was.

MR UNTERHALTER: Could you tell us of your first meeting and dealings with Mrs Mandela?

MS CHILI: I met with Mrs Mandela face-to-face.  It was when we were in a meeting of the Soweto Womens Group and Nana Kutimela had brought some letters for her from overseas and in the meeting it was asked who is supposed to take those letters to her.  As an employee then they decided that I take those letters to her.  I took those letters to her and that was the first time we met directly except that we used to meet in the gatherings, different gatherings.

MR UNTERHALTER: And was there any enmity between you and Mrs Mandela, any bad feelings at that point in 1986?

MS CHILI: Not that I know of.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now I want to ask you about events after the formation of the Mandela Football Club.  Were there any efforts being made to bring your son, Sibusiso into that Club, could you tell us what happened?

MS CHILI: After the formation of the Football Club, I don't know after some few weeks Sibusiso came to me and said Mama, Bomonde, which belonged to the Football Club then, they are after him, they want to kill him.  Then I said to myself it cannot be possible you know.  I remember requesting Nondumiso Diniswayo(?) saying Nondumiso please accompany me, let's go to Winnie Mandela to find out why are the Football Club members wanting to kill Sibusiso.  We went with Nondumiso.  When we arrived at Mrs Mandela we sent a message because it was not easy to go directly into the house at Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's house, she came out of the house and met us, we were outside, outside the yard.  I asked her what is it that is happening, what had Sibusiso done that the Football Club wants to kill him.  She said Dudu if he's not in the Football Club obviously the other boys will think that he's a sell-out.  And to me that scared me really because those times when somebody is labelled as a sell-out it means he must die, so I just concluded that then they have concluded that he's a sell-out because he's not in the Football Club, maybe that's why they wanted to kill him.

MR UNTERHALTER: And what did you suggest to Sibusiso as far as joining this Club was concerned?

MS CHILI: I warned him not to join the Football Club with the other sons of mine.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  As far as you were aware what were the activities of this Club at the time, what was the reputation of the Club that led you to advise your son not to join it?

MS CHILI: At the beginning I did not know of any activities, the only thing is that I did not understand the Football Club issue especially relating to Mrs Winnie Mandela you know.  It was just a question mark to me, I wasn't clear why a Football Club suddenly, and then I said they mustn't join the Football Club, it was when Nombulelo came to my place saying to me, Dudu, since my son has joined the Football Club he is no more coming at home.  I said to her, look Nombulelo, I have nothing to do with the Football Club, the best thing is for you to go to Mrs Winnie Mandela's place and find out about your son.  She went and came back to me and said Dudu can you - do you know what Mrs Winnie Mandela said to me?  I said no, I don't know, she said because we are not feeding our children they are staying in her house because she is feeding them.  That was the response that Winnie Madikizela-Mandela gave to Nombulelo.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Nombulelo?

MS CHILI: Nombulelo is Nthando's mother, the one who came to complain that her son since he joined the Football Club,
he is no more coming home.

MR UNTERHALTER: And what was your response, what was your - were you apprehensive about this Club?

MS CHILI: Then I realised that no, no, no, no, there was something wrong with the Football Club.  Then that's the time when I said please don't join the Football Club because you can only join the Football Club if you are studying at home, but if you are not studying please don't join the Football Club.

MR UNTERHALTER: You don't starve your sons at home do you?

MS CHILI: I didn't.

MR UNTERHALTER: May I ask you then was there a report made to you right at the end of 1988 of the abduction of certain young people from a Methodist manse in Soweto?

MS CHILI: Yes it was the morning after the abduction.

MR UNTERHALTER: When was that, could you try and be precise?

MS CHILI: It was some time in December, I can't remember the date, but it was towards the end of December.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

MS CHILI: It was Dada and Newu from the manse who came to my place to tell me that there are four youths who have been taken by the Football Club to Winnie Mandela's house.

MR UNTERHALTER: And to whom did you report this matter?

MS CHILI: I immediately phoned Reverend Mbangula who is the district, I don't know how we termed them, but he was the district somebody of the Methodist Church and I phoned the Civic people, I phoned Mrs Sisulu.  The Civic people were also members of the UDF, so we were trying to inform the structures, the then structures that there is something of this sort that has happened.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.  At the end of January 1989 can you tell us of a meeting that was held at which reports were made of the activities of the Football Club, were you at that meeting?

MS CHILI: The Mass Democratic, yes I was in that meeting.

MR UNTERHALTER: Yes.

MS CHILI: Where these four youths were handed over after they were released at Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's house.

MR UNTERHALTER: I see.  Now I want to then take you to February 1989 and a visit to your house by a man by the name of Todo, can you tell us what happened on that day?

MS CHILI: It was in evening, we were just relaxed you know and then this young man came, you could see that he was scared, he had this fear, he just - he was so much in a hurry that I have come to warn you that the decision has been taken at Winnie Mandela's, I don't know whether at his home or in the office, that Sibusiso and Lerothodi has been problematic, they have to be killed.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now who did, who was it said had made this decision?

MS CHILI: I was told that Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and Zinzi Mhlongo were co-deciders of the sentence of death to my son.

MR UNTERHALTER: And was it indicated why exactly they wanted to do these things to your son?