Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-17

MR DUKADA: But you had fired a shot already, indicating to them that you were working with them, approving what they were doing?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR DUKADA: What would cause you now to not to trust them?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: In that situation, the situation that was prevailing at the time I had no alternative because I couldn't trust them anymore.

MR DUKADA: And you've already indicated that you had known nothing politically about Batandwa Ndondo before the day of the killing?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR DUKADA: And all what you were simply told was that he was an ANC terrorist?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR DUKADA: And you never even made enquiries from the askaris or Colonel Booi or any person to convince yourself that Batandwa was a terrorist?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I didn't ask anybody.

MR DUKADA: And by the time Batandwa was killed, you had no reason to believe that Batandwa was a terrorist?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I believed in the sense that they talked about him and Shosha pointed at him and said, "he was the one".

MR DUKADA: You see the reason why you say the, if I understand what you are saying, the reason why you say the killing was political is because the askaris told you that Batandwa was a terrorist?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: And just one aspect Mr Chairperson.  But according to my instructions, by the time Batandwa was killed Moss was already a member of the South African Police Force?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I didn't know him.

MR DUKADA: Are you saying that you had no knowledge about the background of all the askaris at the time Batandwa was killed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct sir.

MR DUKADA: You say, there's a quotation which I read out to you before lunch.  Where you say,
"The Government of the day was fully appreciative of the operation."
Can you explain that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I can say so because of the things that the President said, the way he was talking.

MR DUKADA: In other words are you saying that even that before the killing, the Government of the day in Transkei was aware that Batandwa was going to be killed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I didn't know that.

MR DUKADA: Yes but when you say that the Government of the day was fully appreciative of the operation, what do you mean?  I take it the operation means the killing?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I am saying the way that the State President was talking he was indicating that the Government appreciated that.

MR DUKADA: No Mr Dandala, I'm not asking about that.  I'm saying I'm just referring you to your sworn statement, where you say,
"The Government of the day was fully appreciative of the operation."
Do you agree with me that the word "operation", it means the killing?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: Do you also agree with me that the Government of the day had prior knowledge about the killing?  The Government of the day had knowledge about the killing of Batandwa before he could even be killed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No, I don't know.

MR DUKADA: Mr Chairperson that's all what I wanted to ask from the witness, thank you.
NO FURTHER CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR DUKADA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well thank you Mr Dukada.  We propose adjourning at this stage so that the legal representatives on behalf of the implicated persons may commence their cross examination of Inspector Dandala tomorrow morning.  We propose starting tomorrow at 9.30.  Will that be convenient for you Mr Dukada?

MR DUKADA: The time will be convenient to me Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Yes sir, it will be convenient.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Knight?

MR KNIGHT: Mr Chairman the time is convenient for me.

CHAIRPERSON: We will rise and we will resume the hearing tomorrow morning at 9.30 and would you make sure, legal representatives of the implicated person take their seats at a place where they can cross examine the witness because at the moment they don't have microphones.

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson ... [inaudible].

MR DUKADA: Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR DUKADA: Mr Chairperson, for record purposes may I indicate that the Deutshman, a newspaper cutting referred to earlier on, I shall be making it available tomorrow, copies of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you Mr Dukada.  That being the case, shall we then rise until tomorrow morning at 9.30.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS