Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-03

UNKNOWN: I would appreciate very, very much, but
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this needs some follow up because I believe the very reporter has got some political agenda of some kind.  
 Mr Chairman to get back to the business of this Commission.  I am going to address this Commission in Ndebele for the purposes of the people who were for independence, for the people who were anti-independence and those who do not know what exactly happened around these areas because I believe that there were a lot of people who died unnecessarily.  There were people who died because of some other people did not know what was exactly happening around this area.  So I am going to address this Commission in Ndebele, but I will mix there and there.
 The main objective that created and caused all these miseries, that destruction of property and so on was independence.  It was independence that was promoted and pushed by both Pretoria and KwaNdebele.  Well, for different reasons of course.  Pretoria wanted KwaNdebele to become independent precisely because it wanted to prove to the world that the apartheid system, homeland systems was a workable system.  It would work and it is achievable.  That is what they wanted to prove.  They also wanted to prove to the liberation movements that were banned then that they were fighting a loosing battle because homelands were taking independence one after another.  It was the KwaNdebele Government pushed and went or opted for the independence merely because they wanted to be rich, they wanted money.  Unfortunately our fellow people had to die in the process.  That was unnecessary and uncalled for.  
 Now what instruments did they use to achieve their objective?  One, they used Pretoria itself because Pretoria was behind this option for independence.  We communicated on MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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numerous occasions with the Government of Pretoria telling them about what was happening around our area, but I was happy to learn from Chris Heunis, the Minister of the then Constitutional Development, that he was briefed.  He knew exactly as to what was happening around our areas at that time.  He got the information from his sources every morning.  
 Now the problem was now why did he not intervene because we were calling for his intervention or the intervention of the Government.  We communicated with the State President, we communicated with Vlok, we communicated with the Minister of Development Aid which was Gerhard Viljoen.  We have got proof to that where we were telling them of what was happening in our areas.  They used KwaNdebele Government through their Parliamentary structure which passed motions to get Moutse incorporated because they wanted KwaNdebele consolidated.  They used their majority in Parliament and this needs to be said that they were not elected popularly, by popular vote, but they were all designated to Parliament.  Designated by traditional leaders, designated by traditional authorities to Parliament.  As a result they knew that because of that whatever action they were taking would not be regarded as legitimate.  They used their majority in Parliament to throw all those who were opposed to independence and they used Government resources to fight their cause.  
 Why I say Pretoria was behind that was because they provided money for that.  There was enough money for celebrations, there was enough money to buy Caspers, to buy ammunition, to buy firearms, to buy all these things to fight the opponents of independence, but when it comes to 
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development, that money was no longer there.  That was very surprising.  They used Imbokhoto to terrorise our people.  If time does allow I will come up with details, but I can say right now that they used Imbokhoto to terrorise our people, to torture our people, to maim our people, even to kill our people.  Some of our comrades, up to this day, disappeared.  We do not know where they went to.  It would be very busy today if the Commission would investigate, make investigations as to where were these people buried so that they could get a very respectful burial.  They want to know where the bones are.  This is very hurting because it was the Government itself, the Government that we thought would protect its citizens, but it was the Government that was doing all these things.  I can carry on and say they used the police from Pretoria to do what they did.  Those policemen from Pretoria were here on secondment, but you could clearly see that they were pushing the Pretoria agenda.  
 Because as we talk, it was on the 14th of May.  The helicopter was hovering and they were throwing teargas canisters at us.  On that day people were killed and this helicopter was from Pretoria.  There were Caspers all over the place, the same Caspers were from Pretoria.  Two young boys died on that day.  I am very happy to see their families here.  I am happy that the Mthimunye family who died on that day is here today.  Many people were injured on that day.  I have to say that soldiers were also involved.  They were used, they wanted to be rich, they wanted to enrich themselves with our money.  This was perpetrated by the Chief Minister and his members of Cabinet and some of the business people.  What I can say is that 
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they used again "kits konstabels".  These were members of Imbokhoto.  Some of them got promoted, they went to very high ranks and they were doing everything they wanted, they had control.  They would get into peoples houses, assault people, break peoples houses.  You know, everything would take place under normal circumstances.  There was no unrest at all in the township.  This was a very unfortunate situation.  
 They used the traditional leaders.  My late father, David Maboko, was a very fierce opponent of apartheid and Imbokhoto itself, independence as well.  I heard one of the witnesses here saying that these things were planned from the Royal family.  That is where they originated from.  That is what he said yesterday.  I want to say that my father never agreed to apartheid policies.  There is enough evidence that he has been tried for the white people for many years, but he never agreed to their call.  He did not even want to see the tribal authority.  He use to say I am a South African and I want the land to belong to its rightful people.  Everytime he would say why are they whites leading this country if Verwoerd insists on saying he wants blacks to rule themselves.  He did not go along with such principles.  We were sent to farms to be farm workers.  You know, even today we are still slaves of farmers.  This is very painful.
 It is promising that we are here today talking of reconciliation.  We want to open our hearts and cough out everything because we really have to go forward, we have to repair mistakes of the past.  
 In this traditional authority my father was the only man who was against independence.  I also have evidence, if 
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you want evidence, I will give it to you.  As a result of that my father suffered the consequences.  My father's house was bombed.  It was Lerm and his policemen together with Imbokhoto.  My father would be woken up in the middle of the night and he would be made to walk along the streets.  We decided to take him away.  You know, it was disgusting, the King leaving his nation behind to go into hiding.  
 You must understand that the KwaNdebele Parliament was run by members of Uzunza Tribal Authority.  Skosana, Makawe, Mfenie and all the Ministers.  They were members of this traditional authority of Ngwenyama.  I was ultimately the Chairperson of the tribal authority.  Those members who were members of Imbokhoto who were going to appear here were under my leadership, I was the Chairperson.  This tribal authority had a function.  The first thing it was supposed to lead all the nations whose leaders were members of this tribal authority.  We had to see to the wellbeing of the community.  What my father and myself were doing was that a King is a King because of the nation.  The King was not supposed to dictate at all and that was our principle.  We were listening to the people.  There was not even one thing that we did without the approval of the nation.  
 I want to say today after completing my schooling in  1980.  I started working in 1981.  I was the Secretary of the Tribal Authority and in 1983.  This gave me strength to control even the nation because they had already put themselves out.  I was in a position to stop everything that was going astray in this tribal authority and we were able to stop the police involvement against the people.  The police were abusing our people because Skosana himself was the Chairperson of this Tribal Authority and my father took 
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over a long quarrel and his people were suffering.  They were slaves on the farms.  They were working without pay and they were taken to farms to stay in a farm with no position at all.  
 In the early 60's the Boers evicted them and they had no place to go.  They went to Bophututswana, many of them went to Bophututswana.  They had no rights, no rights whatsoever.  Now you can imagine being oppressed, harassed by your own blood and kin.  They did not have rights at all.  They were called passers-by and my father was then convinced that his nation must have its area.  These people did not have place and for the sake of the poor souls.  It was in 1969 when my father decided to take this Tribal Authority.  Now my father and the Tribal Authority got into this activity because they wanted schools for the people, they wanted houses for the people and it was painful because even in schools you could not find Ndebele language at all.  
 My father had no intention at all to go up to independence.  Now the nation believed that my father had power and the Tribal Authority had power over the Parliament and that is why when this independence issue cropped up, it was clear that the nation was unaware.  People claimed here that the nation knew about independence.  No, it is not true, they did not know anything.  The people came to us.  Fortunately enough we have the former Secretary of the Tribal Authority.  I was the Chairperson and he was the Secretary.  We wrote letters to the top accolades of the police telling them what was taking place here in KwaNdebele.  We even wrote to all prominent people around KwaNdebele.  We even wrote the letter to the Chief, but what I remember very well.  Chris Heunis kept on saying, because 
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we were writing him letters, and he said to us that is an internal political problem, sort it out yourselves.  We were being killed by the Government and his Government was involved in this.  In his reply he was telling us this is an internal problem.  This really shocked us.  How could they say that?  I was talking about the Tribal Authority and he referred this matter to the Tribal Authorities.  He said constitutional structures should be followed.  
 This authority was pressing my father not to or to agree to independence, but my father did not listen them.  They did not even respect him at all.  They were attacking people and as the Chairperson I was telling them, I said to them we are inviting problems.  You are going to be injured, you are going to be hurt.  Now, because of the fact that they knew very well that I was in the struggle in 1976.  With the Soweto uprisings I was at the University of Zululand with many members who are MPs now.  I can mention Peniel Maduna and a few of them.  We were the leadership structure at the university and they knew the members that I was also a student at the University of the North and I was active in politics because I wanted to share with them politics.  They could not stand for their right and fortunately enough within the community of KwaNdebele we had very educated people to mention but a few.  It is N J Guy and others.  These were very educated people and we deemed it fit to consult.  
 My father was then referred to this Tribal Authority, but because he was already in hiding he could not attend some of the meetings.  The then Chairperson of the Chiefs said, Mahlangu, you are against independence and you are oppressing other peoples feelings.  You have not been to 
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several meetings.  Are you still a member of this Tribal Authority?  They fired him just because they were in favour of independence, they were in favour of Imbokhoto.  They wanted him to keep quiet.  
 The KwaNdebele Government then appointed a Commission to look into the question as to whether my father, being a traditional leader, the Head of Amandebele Nzonza tribe, was still in the interest of the tribe.  They are not saying was it still in their own interest, they are saying, is it still in the interest of the people, but because of our struggle.  I want to thank, specifically, on this matter, thank one, traditional leaders themselves.  Starting from my father particularly from the Nzonza Maboka side.  Those were my heros.  Those were people who stood through thick and thin.  I want to thank the youth and end up with thanking the mothers, the women.  
 Throughout the struggle they were at the Chief's kraal.  Imagine women leaving their homes to spend their time at the Chief's place praying all the time to cast evil spirits.  They went to Courts of Law, they were the people behind winning this issue of independence.  They went to court, they challenged the validity of the Government because women were not allowed to get into the Parliament and vote when decisions were taken.  I want to thank them.  I can count many occasions where women took part.  Women would go to the police station during our arrest and demand our immediate release.  They were involved in so many activities, I do not know how can I really thank them.  They really assisted us.  
 I want to touch now the instruments that were used by the Government to oppress the people.  I want to involve MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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KNDC which is KwaNdebele Development Corporation.  This was part and parcel of the then Government and it was used effectively and successfully.  Many business people would be detained with us and it was a well known fact that we did not have money and we would be sent to jail.  These business people would use the Chairperson and they would use the Strategy Committee and the other one called Communication Committee.  
 What they KNDC use to do, they would go to their meetings and it would type pamphlets, you know.  They would type pamphlets with no shame with UDF logo.  They knew very well that by distributing those papers we would be arrested.  We know the policemen who use to arrest us and today they are occupying very high positions.  They got promoted because of the arrests they have made.  We left our children at home, our shops were burnt down.  KNDC still claims, even today, that the people that were detained were unruly.  You could not even consult with a lawyer because you were detained under the State of Emergency.  This was a terrible situation.  They still maintain that we owe them today, but our reply to them is you blocked our rights.
 Chairperson, let me go forward.  I want to say many people died.  The nation was destroyed.  People use to come to the King and say can you please call the Members of Parliament and ask them who gave them the permission to accept independence.  Ask them who gave them the permission to form Imbokhoto.  They never came, but instead they decided to victimise us.  As the Chairperson, they started with me and they went onto the other members.  We were very popular and we were communicating with the whole world about the issues of KwaNdebele.  They use to take police, as I 
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have already mentioned, and they would take the vehicles from the Tribal Authority.  Before I could take the Chairmanship these things were happening.  They would take vans or vehicles and attack, but since I took over I made it a point to run the office according to the Act and according to the people's needs.  
 We were against independence because people came in large numbers to the Chief's kraal.  Can the people please be quiet, I do not want to be disturbed while I am busy here.  I will supply them with that information. I said when I spoke I am sorry, I have missed my point now.