Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

MR MADASA: Now in my possession here I have the Mololeke Police docket and inside it there's a statement by one France Towu who worked for a paraffin company and in that statement, which is A5, he states that around June/July they were attacked by the members, they were hijacked by the members of the ANC Youth League and after these members had died as a result of the massacre he went there to identify them and he indeed he identified some of those people.  What do you say to that?  Do you know anything about what Mr Towu says?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson it's my first time to hear that.

MR MADASA: And also in the docket Mr Towu's colleague, somebody who worked with him, I think it's ...[inaudible] out of the last I take, on the 1st December 1993, by the Youth Members and he also identified some of them amongst the deceased.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I said earlier on I do not know of such an incident.  What I know is that there were problems because of the situation that reigned in Katlehong.  Some youth would leave their areas and go and cause trouble in the other area.  I do not know as to whether he knew some of those members, it's the first time to hear of that.

MR MADASA: And lastly on Towu, they say he and ...[indistinct] they say your members were armed with not only AK-47's but other assortment of arms like pump action pistols.  Do you know anything about that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson I have already explained that I never received that kind of a report, it's my first here to hear of this incident.

MR MADASA: A  certain Mr Moodley who was in the management of that paraffin company - he also states that he told his employees, workers, to pay an amount varying from R50 to R70 to your members in order to secure entry to Mololeke section to do deliveries?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It's not the first time to hear of that protection fee but as the leaders we condemned that move, we said anyone must feel free to come to the township - no protection fee at all was required.

MR MADASA: Now you've just conceded that some of your members caused trouble but in other areas, what kind of trouble did they cause in those areas?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson, Mololeke it's a section in Katlehong so you will never stop someone to go somewhere else.  To be in a position to talk to such a person and call him to order you'll have to first contact his leaders where he comes from.

MR MADASA: Yes I hear the explanation, my question is - you have said some of your members caused trouble in other areas.  Do you know what kind of trouble did they cause?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not know the troubles they caused.

MR MADASA: Were you told about the trouble they caused?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No I was not told.

MR MADASA: But you know that they caused trouble?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I am explaining that some of the youth would leave from where they stay.  The easiest way to identify them and to know their organisation would be to catch them, ask them who their leaders are, then you'll be in a position to know that they have caused trouble.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, what exactly were you told did your members do in these other areas?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No sir, I was not told of my members who caused trouble.

CHAIRPERSON: Well you mentioned that you were told that you did receive a report that some of the members of the Youth League had gone to some other areas and caused trouble.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That was a report received by Central in other words where all members of the Youth League come together.  I did not personally receive a report at Mololeke that members of the Youth League in Mololeke did this and that.

CHAIRPERSON: What is it that the report said had been done by these members of the Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The report was related to the criminal activity that took part in some of the areas in Katlehong not specifically Mololeke.

CHAIRPERSON: So in other words, the report alleged that some of the members of the Youth League had been engaged in some criminal activities in other parts of Katlehong?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: Now you said earlier on that you were not on good terms with the members of the SDU?  Did you say that?  You as a person now, I'm not referring to the ANC Youth League. You personally you were not on good terms with the SDU members?  Is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: And all of them?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Those people I was not on good terms with were the top ones, I'm referring now to the committee of the SDU.

MR MADASA: The top structure from Central to Zonal to?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Not from Central I'm referring to Leleke where I resided at that time.

MR MADASA: I assume the leadership of the SDU at Mololeke?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: What was the problem?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The problem was that when you tried to interpret the politics of that day some of them would say to you - listen here we are here to work and if someone is not co-operating we'll use the powers that we have.  Let me provide an example - there is a day where I tried to sit down with the leadership of the SDU in the section, you know, to iron out the problems that the community encountered.  Now that meeting did not take place because they were threatening the members of the Civic, they said we were then no better.

MR MADASA: Was Manyala part of that leadership which you disagreed with at Leleke?  Was Leleke leadership Manyala?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Manyala was in the zonal section, he also resided in Mololeke.

MR MADASA: You also did not like him?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Our conflict started with that issue of the stayaway.

MR MADASA: But he was trying to help your members to be released?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: If you are a leader you must know the reasons for the stayaway, you don't just wake up in the morning and hear people being stopped from work.

MR MADASA: Alright, so you disagreed with any activity wherein you were not conducted or consulted before?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes that is correct because as the leaders of Mololeke, we were supposed to account before the central and the zonal.

MR MADASA: Alright, now do you remember what you said earlier on on Friday - that you worked together with SDU but for a short moment, you remember saying that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: What month is it you came together with the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson, so many things happened in Mololeke.  I do not remember the month very well

MR MADASA: Now do you know Tulani and Maya?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Tulani who?

CHAIRPERSON: Because the witness earlier on on Friday testified about a certain Tulani who was apparently a member of the Executive Committee.  Is that right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: You are right.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MADASA: He was a member of the ANC Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MADASA: Tulani says in his statement in the docket that before June, June/July '93 you were working together with the SDU.  Do you confirm that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes.

MR MADASA: And then after June/July you still remained working together but you agreed on different times of patrol, that is you would patrol during the day and the SDU at night?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was during the start of the conflict.

MR MADASA: And you agree that after June/July you then agreed to patrol different times?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not understand your question.  What do you mean when you say we agreed that we will patrol in different times?