Special Hearings — Political Party — 1998-05-06

MURPHY MOROBE: Yes the question of the relationship between the UDF and the ANC seems to have been trying to pull together this submission.  There's one word that has been hanging at the back of my mind which one activist once put up when we had earlier debate and discussions about the struggle and the movement and I think the word was symbiotic that was used about this.  But there is no line that one is able to draw because as we said earlier on that the UDF came at a particular point in time in our struggle in 1983 but the struggle has been there, the struggle has been going on, in fact we come to a particular point where the ANC had been in existence since 1912, at a point where the PAC had been in existence, at a point where we had SASO, we had the BPC, we've had a whole range of organisations up to 1983, so there was no particular vacuum per se, there was in fact activity on the ground.  So what clearly established the relationship between the UDF and the ANC in 1983, it was largely in terms of the basic principles in which the UDF was formed in that the UDF declaration if read against for example against the Freedom Charter, there is no, in fact, express exclusion of one document from the other in terms of a basis for people to come together and engage in struggle.
 So that sets the first level of the relationship between the two organisations.  But importantly as well, there was a clear understanding of the tactical requirements of the time in terms of how we might and should constitute an organisation like the UDF at the point in time in our history in 1983 where organisations like the ANC and the PAC were banned and that the positioning of this organisation had at least formally been of such a nature that it does not expose individuals of the organisation to the adverse actions and reactions of the state by being brazen and beat your breast etc and declare that you are ANC or work with the ANC etc; there was a specific constraint historically but actually in short that was not possible.  But technically and strategically it made sense and it was the right thing for us to do that we establish the UDF in the way in which it was established and clearly defining that required distance between the underground organisation, the ANC and in fact those organisations that would operate above board.
 Now this was 1983 and even then the UDF had not adopted the Freedom Charter, the Freedom Charter was not the key document of the UDF but as you would recall, that as the struggle progressed, as more and more people took part and as more and more activities of the UDF became also what one would call an incubator for activities of the ANC as well to take off, there began to be increasing interaction between UDF activists and even ANC operatives because the atmosphere and the climate was being created, it made it possible for the underground forces to operate in such a way and the only way underground operations could be executed was in the context of existing conditions where there were organisations and there were people because the people become the life blood for this.
 Now the relationship therefore was at that level one that was based on a confluence of ideas and identities politically given the history of the struggle and where we were in point and time but it was a very distinct understanding and separation of structures and accountabilities and responsibilities here and that we sought to retain and guard very jealously, not because it was opportunistic but because it was right given the history and because it was right given the nature of the organisation that the UDF because the UDF was not only a front that was made up of ANC supporting organisations and some of the organisations in the UDF were not necessarily ANC and it had to be structured as broadly as possible to be able to be accommodating.
 When we began the UDF we began it with as broad an invitation of forces as possible in Cape Town, even AZAPO, those organisations that belonged to the National Forum were part of the organisations that were earmarked and invited to become part of the front.  Eventually we ended up with for example organisations like Inyanza etc who had been involved in the Bantustan system before, so we had looked at this as a much more broad organisation and it could therefore not be at the ANC because the ANC was a different structure, it operated under very stringent underground conditions, very strong central control etc of operatives and operations and we were much more, we were on the opposite side in terms of structure, a front, affiliates maintained their autonomy, we basically agreed on basic key campaigns and these campaigns eventually became campaigns that the ANC could associate with because, as Oliver Tambo on January 8th, 1983 made the call as well for people to form fronts of this nature and we responded to some of these calls.  We responded to our own intuition, innovation and experience of the moment that we had to form the front.  So the UDF therefore have that relationship.
 Now our face and a number of our patrons and key people in the UDF ended up tended to be ANC members or some ANC operatives, former ANC members that had been in prison for many years.  I was on Robben Island myself with Ter and others, there was the ANC there, we came out in 1982 and many of us came out in '82 in fact.  There is the historical confluence of forces, many of the people who went to jail in 1963 for 12/15/18 year sentences came out at the same time as those of us arrested in 1976 in our thousands, many went in for 5 years, 6 years, 7 years; what the regime hadn't bargained for was to have a situation where all of those sentences mature at the same time.  This was about 1982/83 etc, so the UDF became a natural home in terms of it's moment and its mode of existence for people to actually get in there.
 So that's the extent of our relationship with the ANC.  I mean one could go further in terms of further contact later on in the year because we're not anti ANC, ANC would see us as an ally in the struggle and would seek ways to cooperate with us in such a way as not to expose the UDF.
 Now I don't know whether someone wants to deal with the conflict - Valley might be leaving now, I would like him to take on the UDF/AZAPO conflict and then he can just add onto that.