Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-17

MR HOLE: I am not able to supply the Committee with a specific Act, but if the Committee will have regard to Annexure Q of Mr Thoba's application, Mr Chairman this is a copy of the indictment in a Supreme Court matter between the State and one Matthews Lungi Sigenda, who was charged with, among others, with treason and terrorism. In the indictment it is spelled out clearly, in the preamble, that the Ciskei Peoples' Rights Protection Party was established on the 2nd of June 1986 and it goes on to say that this endeavour to overthrow the Government of the Republic of Transkei ...(intervention)

JUDGE WILSON: On the next page, at the top of the page, it tells you when and how it was banned.

MR HOLE: That is so.  I am indebted to the Committee.

HASSAN MALL: What was the name of the Political Party that was in power at the time?

MR THOMPSON: Here in Ciskei it was the Ciskei National Independence Party that was headed by President Sebe.

HASSAN MALL: Were there any other political parties besides this one?

MR THOMPSON: I cannot recall, UDF was existing but they did not EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
 
JUDGE MALL	36	MR THOMPSON
have effect as in the whole South Africa.

HASSAN MALL: I was thinking of a political party such as the Ciskei National Independence Party.  Was there an opposition party in Parliament?

MR THOMPSON: No Ciskei was a one state party at that time.

HASSAN MALL: Was that by law?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

HASSAN MALL: How did the Security Branch function apart from the Illisolomzi?  What was the function of the Security Branch?

MR THOMPSON: Its duty was to watch ANC and UDF and other organisations.

HASSAN MALL: And Illisolomzi?

MR THOMPSON: The Elite Unit had to watch Illisolomzi because it was a direct threat to the Government.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Hole, any re-examination?   I am sorry, Mr Brink are there any questions you wish to put to this witness?

MR BRINK: Just one or two, briefly.
Mr Thompson one of the questions I put to Mr Thoba should perhaps more properly been directed to you.  At the time that Miss 
Msutwana was in detention you held rank senior to that of Mr Thoba, is that correct?   You were Lieutenant?

MR THOMPSON: Yes, it is so Sir.

MR BRINK: And he was a Warrant Officer, I think.

MR THOMPSON: Yes Sir.

MR BRINK: Now, you heard the questions and answers regarding the - after the assault the further detention of this victim without medical help, can you give any explanation for that?  You were a commissioned Officer.

MR THOMPSON: Yes I heard that Sir.   I agree with Mr Thoba because the duty of medical attention is the responsibility of the Station Commander.  I had to tell Mr Panzi, but the Station EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
 
MR BRINK	37	MR THOMPSON
Commander had the right of taking her to hospital, without consulting us if he thought that there was a problem.

MR BRINK: Well, did you recommend that she be taken to a hospital and seen by a doctor at least?

MR THOMPSON: No I never recommended that.

MR BRINK: Thank you.   Mr Chairman, I do not propose asking any further questions.   I just want to draw to your attention what appears to be an error, whether you have seen it.   If you have a look at Annexure F of the bundle, which is the Appeal Court Judgement at page 4 at the top of that judgment, of this one relating to this particular application it's F of the whole bundle.

SISI KHAMPEPE: That's annexure F of your own bundle Mr Brink?

MR BRINK: Yes, yes. And at page 4 of that judgment, the second paragraph, you will see that the learned Appeal Judge appears to have made an error.   He refers to complainant being Voyisiwe Veronica Ntxanani.  In fact Voyisiwe Veronica Ntxanani was a
magistrate and that appears on page 5 of the judgment about a third of the way down, the second paragraph.   Just an error.  In fact the complainant on the second count is, it's common cause was Nomtunzi Msutwana.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

MR BRINK: Thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Hole, any re-examination?

MR HOLE: Mr Thompson, in your affidavit at paragraph 14, you tell the Committee that it was understood at the time that the African National Congress and its allies were not concerned with Ciskei, but rather with the South African state.  Was that in fact the position?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: And at page three, of your affidavit, that's paragraph EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
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15A you say:
"Ciskei had a one party and all other parties were unlawful except for the Ciskei National Independence Party, whose head was President Sebe."
You go on and say:
"President Sebe at some stage even declared himself President for life."
Is that in fact the case?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: I have nothing further to ask the witness.  Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HOLE
WITNESS EXCUSED
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MR HOLE	39	MR MAKOM

MR HOLE: With the Committee's leave I propose to deal with the third applicant.

HASSAN MALL: Are you proceeding now to Mr Makom?

MR HOLE: That is so, Mr Chairman.   May I proceed Sir.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

J W MAKOM: (sworn states)

MR HOLE: Mr Makom you have a document before you, an affidavit which was signed by yourself on the 16th of March 1997 at Mdantsane Prison.

J W MAKOM: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: Was this document an account of what took place between you and the victims, before this Committee?

J W MAKOM: Yes, it is to Sir.

MR HOLE: Is it correct that the Elite Unit of which you were a member was disbanded by the military government which staged a coup led by Brig Qozo in 1990?

J W MAKOM: Yes it so Sir.

MR HOLE: Mr Chairman, he annexes to his representation Annexure A, which is the Elite Unit's (...indistinct) decree, that is at page 8 of his representation.

HASSAN MALL: Page eight of the affidavit?

MR HOLE: That is so.	In your papers Mr Makom you sketched the relations between the Ciskei State and the Transkei State and the problems arising from those relations.

J W MAKOM: Can you please repeat your question Sir?

MR HOLE: You mentioned in your affidavit the problems that existed between Transkei and Ciskei.

J W MAKOM: Yes Sir.

MR HOLE: And you also make mention of an operation, which you call Operation Katzen.

HASSAN MALL: I'm afraid I can't hear you.
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MR HOLE	40	MR MAKOM

MR HOLE: I am sorry.  You made mention, is it audible now Mr Chairman?  You make mention of an operation which you call Operation Katzen.

J W MAKOM: Yes Sir.

MR HOLE: Can you tell the Committee what this operation was all about?

J W MAKOM: According to my knowledge this Operation Katzen it was planned in Transkei by Illisolomzi Military wing of the Peoples' Rights Protection Party.   This operation was to overthrow the late Mr Sebe who was the President of Ciskei at the time.  This operation was to be carried out by this Party that I have already mentioned and its military wing assisted by the Transkei Defence Force and other members of the Military Intelligence of South Africa.
	This happened and its aims were to overthrow the existing Ciskei Government then.   This happened because there was an attack in Bisho during February 1987, I cannot recall the date exactly as it is quite some time now.   The aims of this operation was to unite these two homelands, starting at Mzimkulu up to Gamtoos River. 
	Secondly, it was to suppress the political organisations that were in the border region.  If I can recall clearly information that we got was that since it was known by the Military Intelligence of Transkei and Illisolomzi and the South African Military Unit the intention was to suppress all the political parties in the border region in order to prepare for the elections so that the National Party should win.