Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-10

BONGANI FINCA: And you have given us a glimpse of the kind of suffering that your family went through and how your life has been totally changed by one act of brutal even mad act of murder.  You have referred to people who are victims of the High Gate murder and King William's Town and Queenstown in this region and the church in Cape Town.  You say that those people who are responsible for this must really be taken to court and face the consequences of their actions.  Would you say the same for all people who have committed acts of murder during the conflicts of the past or would you feel that these four cases should be treated differently from the rest of the cases?
MR BELLING (SNR): I feel personally that it's an act of cowardice because they're hitting soft targets so called soft targets.  These so called soft targets are targets where there's no firing back, those people have not firearms with them and that is why they go in and attack those people that they know that can't fire back at them and then they take off and run away but if somebody does shoot back at them and I've see it with my own eyes already, they run right out of their boots to get away they even throw their firearms away.  The thing is these four places I feel that they were real honest soft target areas.
 Take the Church for instance there they're serving the Lord.  This is where our big problem is that we have in this country too because Satan is leading everything and we must realise that the only way there is going to be peace or any peace that will come only one way and that is everybody opens their hearts to the Lord that's knocking on that door then only then there will be peace otherwise there will be no peace and that is for sure.  They allow Satan to take over and guide them and put everything into their heads and that's exactly what is happening and we bypass that issue by not looking up to the Lord and having the powers and the spirits of the Lord upon you then only you will be in a safe situation but then you have to carry on otherwise Satan chases you all the time.   He insisted to be baptised on the twenty eighth of February 1993 and he insisted to be baptised in a new Church of ours that opened up and then he was shot in that May and I explained to them afterwards that is where Satan is chasing you.   This is one of the reasons where you got involved in that.  How did he get out of all this?  Only by prayers and the Lord's powers to guide the specialists to do the operations to get him through.  That's the only thing that brought him through.  We've got to look upon the Lord instead of looking at all these wild things that's going on.  It's all Satan that's  driving these things into everybody.  That is the big mistake we are looking at whereas if we open our hearts to the Lord let him come in then we will have peace in the world not only here in South Africa I'm talking about the world.  Look right around us at what is going on, the most terrible things are happening, cruel things that one would never even have imagined seeing.  I would like to say that those four areas are real soft targets they should never have just been hit like that.  That was a cowardly act as far as I'm concerned.  These people should be sorted out in a very harsh manner as to what the law takes it to.  That's what I'd like to see because these people are all in a bad situation especially a Church.  How can they go and hit on a Church?  They're going to answer to the biggest judge of all and that's God our Father in heaven.   That's the one they're going to answer to for sure, sure.  They're going to all answer to Him so we're not even worried what happens here.  That day is coming, we will all go through that day.  That day's coming and judgement will be done.  All those perpetrators they will for ever live in condemnation that's for sure.  We look upon it that way again.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mr Belling.  Last question, Reverend Xundu?

REV XUNDU: Just to get the thing into perspective for my understanding, you are saying that all perpetrators should go the same route of being taken to court be they Sharpeville where people were just massacred without having guns, be they June the sixteenth.  Shall we raise those names and say the amnesty process is irrelevant because I think that you are making a statement which I think makes the amnesty process an irrelevant process in terms of reconciliation for South Africa.  I just want to get it on record that you are saying that all those people who have been perpetrators like in Sharpeville on June the sixteenth who suffered at the hands of the police and Maduna State in Uitenhage were just mowed down.  That those people who committed that in your opinion should not be granted amnesty, they should be charge and imprisoned.
MR BELLING (SNR): Well, they did the damage they should have thought first and thought about the Lord first before they did things like that.  They are doing acts and deeds for Satan himself.  It's acts of Satan that is going through ..............  What he puts in their minds and they should have thought of that fist but to take an act like that and put it into action like if I had to go and start mowing people down here then I should be sorted out for that.  Never mind who he is, who the person is.  They should be sorted out according to the laws of the country.  It should be sorted out and I feel the maximum should be dealt with, with these people because this is not the way that we should be living.  That is why there is all this conflict.  I don't care who the person is White or Black there's no discrimination with me at all.  I look at the criminal that's what I look at.  I don't care who he is if he's done wrong he's done wrong and that's it.  So then they should be sorted out.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Belling thank you very much, thank you Mr Belling Junior.  You have told us that you are in extreme pain and I don't know whether you are going to wait for the rest of the High Gate testimonies to be heard or do you want us to release you straight away?  There are still four more other people from the High Gate incident who want to testify.  Are you going to remain or do you want to be released?
MR BELLING (SNR): He'll remain here.

BONGANI FINCA: You'll remain, thank you very much.  I will convey a word of thanks to you all after you've all testified.
MR BELLING (SNR): Could I ask one other questions.  With all due respect to the Commission is it not going to take another four years before we hear of any progress?  I'm saying this with all due respect to the Commission because this had been a nightmare I've even got more grey hairs that my other grey hairs in these four years.

BONGANI FINCA: The matter is completely out of our hands Mr Belling, what we do is to take the information from victims compile a report to the President and then the President has to act.
MR BELLING (SNR): I understand that's why I say with due respect I would be happy if we could hear as soon as possible.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.
MR BELLING (SNR): Thank you very much.