Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-09

CHAIRPERSON: This hearing today is scheduled to  come to an end earlier than usual, because members of the Committee and other persons involved, have to travel and catch flights.
	We won't have time to complete the evidence of a further applicant, but it has been agreed between the members of the panel and all the legal representatives, including Mr Mpshe, that because there are victims present, or next of kin of victims present here today, that Mr Khumalo will give evidence, but only evidence in chief, in respect of the incident relating to the death of Mr Zazi Khuzwayo.
	This will be done for the interests of the persons or some of the persons who are present here this morning.  Sorry will he be giving evidence Mr Mpshe, in respect of any other incident?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I feel my hands are always tied.  It will have to be Zazi Khuzwayo and Pam Tsabalala, but my learned friend indicates that it won't be on Pam Tsabalala, so I am satisfied with Zazi Khuzwayo.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe.  And then what will be happening with the further conducting of this enquiry, is that from next week, the Committee will be sitting up in Richard's Bay where Mr Khumalo and the other applicants will be giving evidence, will be giving full evidence, in other words they will be testifying and they will be subject to questioning by legal representatives.
	At this stage then, Mr Stuart will you be leading Mr Khumalo?

MR STUART: Quite so Mr Chairperson, if I might call him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you proceed, just for the record Mr Stuart, Mr Khumalo is Bekhisiso Alex Khumalo, who is the second applicant in these proceedings.

MR STUART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Khumalo you were trained in the Caprivi, along with 200 or so other Inkatha supporters, is that right?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR STUART: And you gave evidence in the case of the S v Peter Msani, otherwise known as the Malan trial, is that correct?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is true.

MR STUART: As you know, we are not going to deal today with on those aspects, the only thing we are dealing with now, is specifically the incident of the murder of Zazi Khuzwayo, do you understand that?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR STUART: You have stated in your application that you were involved in that murder.  Can I start off by asking you do you recall going to Mr Yamile's house to do some work there?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I remember.

MR STUART: How did it come about that you went to Mr Yamile's house?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: I will say that at that time, I was staying at the offices in Ulundi.  Mhlanduna arrived with others and he asked if there are people, or whether there were people who wanted to go to Claremont to Mr Yamile's house and guard there because the situation was quite bad.
	Mr Yamile needed guards.  He said if there are volunteers, they would wait for Mr Yamile to arrive from a Central Committee meeting and he will take them with.

MR STUART: You mentioned Mhlanduna, is that the first applicant, Dalaqolo Luthuli?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, that is so.

MR STUART: You were saying that Mr Yamile was to take you to Claremont, did that transpire?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR STUART: Who was with you?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Seboniso Mkhize and Bongo Msomi.

MR STUART: What were your duties at Mr Yamile's house in Claremont?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It would be to guard the house.

MR STUART: Did you have other duties in addition to guarding?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, there were other duties.

MR STUART: What were those duties?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: For example, if there is a troublesome person, who is perhaps a threat to Inkatha, we would assist in having him killed.

MR STUART: What was the political situation in Claremont at that time?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It was quite bad to the extent that Mr Yamile's house had been bombed, not the house.  Even when he travelled, he would be insulted and his car would be thrown at by stones.

MR STUART: Did Inkatha have much of a presence at Claremont at that time?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It did not really exist at the time.

MR STUART: What was the relative strength of the UDF/ANC at Claremont at that time?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It was very strong.

MR STUART: You say in your affidavit that there is a time when Mhlanduna came there and he had some discussions with Yamile indoors, which you were not part of and then he called you and some others to discuss this question of Zazi Khuzwayo, do you remember that?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I remember.

MR STUART: Who was with you when he called you together?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: I was with Vela Nquno, Pumlani Mshengo, Spo Bengu.

MR STUART: What did Mhlanduna say to you?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: He told us that Mr Yamile is complaining that there is a certain man who is a threat to him, who supports the UDF in their endeavours to kill him and chase him out of Claremont to such an extent that this man was involved in a previous incident where Mr Yamile's car was bombed.

MR STUART: Who was this person that was mentioned?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: He said it was Zazi Khuzwayo.

MR STUART: Did you know this Zazi Khuzwayo?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: No, I did not know him personally or see his face, but I had heard about him.

MR STUART: What did Mhlanduna then say about this problem he had told you about?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: He said the four of us would go with Msisi who would show us where Zazi worked.

MR STUART: Do you know what the surname of this Msisi that you have mentioned?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It is Hlope.

MR STUART: Approximately how old was Msisi Hlope at that time? ... (tape ends) ... or shocked when you were asked to be involved in the murder of someone?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: No, I was not.

MR STUART: Why not?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: I was not because it was my duty that if there is a person or persons who threatened the Inkatha Freedom Party, I should help in their removal.

MR STUART: You, I interrupted you when you mentioned that Msisi Hlope was going to identify Zazi Khuzwayo, what then transpired?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: At that time, Mhlanduna gave Pumlani Mshengo and Spo Bengu a .38 Special gun.  I and Vela had 9 mm pistols.
	He then showed us a car that we were going to use and said the car will be driven by Hleganpani Yamile.

MR STUART: What is the relationship between Hleganpani Yamile and Samuel Yamile?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Hleganpani was Yamile's son.

MR STUART: What was the car that you were to travel in?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It was a hearse.

MR STUART: Did you then do as instructed?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, that is so.

MR STUART: What transpired?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: We left Yamile's house and rode and parked outside the post office.  The post office was closed to Mr Khuzwayo's shop.

MR STUART: I am going to interrupt you, can you recount for us exactly who was with you when you went in the hearse?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: It was Hleganpani Yamile, him being the driver, Msisi Hlope, myself, Pumlani Mshengo and Spo Bengu and Vela Nquno.

MR STUART: Had it been planned what exactly you would do on arriving at the place where you parked?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, that is so.

MR STUART: What was the plan?

BEKHISISO ALEX KHUMALO: The plan was that Msisi since we didn't know Mr Khuzwayo, Msisi will go into the shop and check if he is there.
	If he was present at the shop, Msisi will come and inform us of his whereabouts in the shop.  Then Pumlani Mshengo and Spo Bengu would go inside the shop and shoot him.
	I and Vela Nquno would be used for back up.

MR STUART: That was the plan, now tell us what happened?