Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR DLAMINI: Are you now staying there in peace?

WITNESS:   Yes, we are staying in peace there.

MR DLAMINI: Before we get into your sons' case you might help the Commission if you can help about what happened at 21 January where some police came to your place, or special constables.  Can you please start from there and tell us about what happened.

WITNESS:   We used to call them the "bloem."  I went ... (intervention) May you please speak up.   ---   I left at home with a car to pick my wife.  When I get out - I was coming back now with my wife - I saw a big car.  We used to call it four-room.  When I arrived there there was Mr Silwane.  He was talking to these "bloem."  These are the police.  There was another man by the name of Mbuyisa.  He took part during that incident, because they were now already inside our yard and they wanted to shoot the meter box.  And he told them that, "You left the person we are looking for because he went away, and now when he is out you come to shoot this place.  Why didn't you do it in his presence?"  And they didn't give an answer.  And then other people in a very big yellow car arrived.  They came to ask us, these "bloem" people, the other police, with whom were they, because they were saying if they are more than two there must be another senior policeman to look - to make sure that they are doing things in terms of the law.  They were not allowed to go around alone.

MR DLAMINI: They came to attack you.  Can you tell us exactly where does the conflicts come from?

WITNESS:   They didn't like my sons because they were members of the UDF, because my last-born, Mlungise, they once took him and I had to bail for him with R2 000,00.  That's where I discovered there's something wrong here.  And my other sons were also getting involved, and I realised that this thing is not going to end there.

MR DLAMINI: This continued until the 13th November 1989, where you lost your son who was 18 years old at the time, and he was shot dead.  Was he still at school or finished?

WITNESS:  I could say that he was still at school.  He was arrested, but not for violence.  He had some altercation with other boys, they fight, and there they open a case for him.  However, he was released, and when they shot him he was out from prison.  After he was shot some man named Silwane called us.

MR DLAMINI: Who is this Silwane?

WITNESS:   He is the chairperson of the ANC branch.  He told me that we have to do something because something bad is happening down there by Ndu's place.  While I was waiting I heard a car stopping near my gate.  I realised that was Silwane.  He was with some white men.  We get into the car, we drove off.  As we were still driving down, and we have to take a right turn.  When I looked on my right hand I saw a bandaged leg(?).  I realised, "Oh, now he's finished."  I get out, I wanted to go and see, get closer so that I can see what was happening.  And they stopped me, they said, "Just leave it.  Don't go near."  They said, "No, you'll go and see him at the mortuary."  The next morning I went to the mortuary.  When I arrived there I was surprised because I couldn't even recognise him.  If you didn't know him you couldn't even tell it was him.  It was as if they took a very big rock and throw it on top of his head.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Zondi, when this happened he had two persons in company.  One of them is Sosibo, he died there, and one of them is Mkhize.  Where is this Mkhize?

WITNESS:   Mkhize got his hand cut off.  Sosibo died at the scene.  Mkhize is alive, but his hand is chopped off.

MR DLAMINI: How does Mkhize explain the situation?  Did he tell you exactly who attacked them?

WITNESS:   He did something that is not usual.  He didn't come back to us to tell us exactly what happened, and he moved from his place to stay somewhere called Place No 3.  I thought maybe he will come back to us to tell us about this, but I realised that when I meet him he respect me so much, and I am afraid to talk to him about this because it may be - I think it may be painful for me to start to know about what happened to him.

MR DLAMINI: Where is he staying, this Mkhize?

WITNESS:   He is staying at No 3.  It's called Unit 3 at Imbali.

MR DLAMINI: Do you know exactly his physical address?  In case we would like to go and talk to him can you be able to direct us?

WITNESS:   Yes, I don't have a problem, I can do that.

MR DLAMINI: On the 26th of August 1991 you lost your son, Zenzele.  He was 29 years old.  I think he was grown-up, and you also have all your hopes on him.  Can you explain, tell us about him?  What happened to him?

WITNESS:   He was my son.  I think even in this case the police were still involved because this were an underground secret, because he was once shot by the police.  And I only discovered that when I came from work in the evening and he was lying down.  He was shot in the toilet and then he was just lying on the ground, and he was wearing a UDF T-shirt ...

MR DLAMINI: (inaudible) ... is the one who helped to sort of like undress him his UDF T-shirt, and then one of them said, "No, don't worry about taking off the shirt because he's ours now."

MR DLAMINI: Is it the Thulani Ngcobo who is an IFP leader?

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR DLAMINI: In your statement you find him in your house.  Was it your house or somebody else's house?

WITNESS:   No, it was someone's house.

MR DLAMINI: Do you have the number of the house or the names of the owners of the house?

WITNESS:   I can only give you the names of the owners of the house, but I don't remember the number.  The place is next to my house so I can be able to direct you there.

MR DLAMINI: Can I take you back.  You tell me about Mbuyisa who stopped these "bloem" people who were coming to attack your family.  Is he still alive?

WITNESS:   He died.

MR DLAMINI: Please take us to the third instance where Mlungise was injured on the 5th of September 1992.  He was 17 by that time.  Was he still at school?

WITNESS:   No, he was not schooling any more, because they used to stop them on the way to school so he couldn't go to school.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us what happened on that day?

WITNESS:   This is a straightforward story.  At one day a young boy and a young lady came to my place.  They were drunk.  They called me and I just picked up my car key and then I went towards my car.  When I opened my gate they say, "Let's go and show you where he is."  I realised if I have to stop, waiting for them to get into my car I am wasting time.  I have to rush.  I got into my car and I rushed with my car until I arrived at the school called Mizane.  When I arrived there I found him lying down there.  When I tried to touch him he was still breathing.  I rushed him into the car.  I rushed him to Medicity.  This is a hospital.  They started treating him.  They sent him to St Anne's.  I don't know what they were going to do with him there.  From there they took him to Greys Hospital.  When I arrived at Greys they said his head was injured.  I don't know whether the blood - there was some blood drops in his brains.  And after that he died.

MR DLAMINI: It's clear that from that head injury, with the blood having fallen on his brain he wasn't able to talk, so he couldn't you exactly what happened to him.

WITNESS:   Yes.  That was the thing that I wish he could do, just to say one word.  But he couldn't say anything, he just died.   Are there some witnesses who might have seen what happened, who might be able to help us?   ---   No, nobody came with any information.  People were afraid that if ever they come with any information they might be killed too.