Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1999-05-24

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Commissioner, what happened subsequent to the 13th of November. We used to play soccer together with the deceased. We used to go to school together. I admit that I was part of a crowd that killed him. But what happened subsequent to that, especially during the trial, I think that closed my heart then.
	Especially seeing elderly people who were definitely not part of the crowd that could have run as fast as I ran to catch the deceased. People were implicated. My brother who is sitting here today was implicated simply because when the police came to arrest me, they didn't find him, they didn't find me, I was already in Namibia, they arrested him. My mother was arrested. My neighbour was arrested because we were close friends. Mina Bogu was arrested because it was alleged that wherever I was, he was supposed to be there. A number of my friends were arrested and sentenced to death for a crime they did not commit. And this far, we haven't had a single word of sorry, we made a mistake. Because definitely against those people I can stand here today and say those were trumped-up charges against them. I admit that's why I am making this application today that I have killed him. 
	To the noises that were made here, it wasn't noise, it was a derogatory remark and I don't think if that is the way in which we are trying to reconcile. If I pass you I would rather go silently past you and ignore, than passing a derogatory remark. That's not the way in which I would like to reconcile. I'd rather leave everything as it is, than rather going to somebody who does not want to reconcile.

MR MALAN: Mr Bekebeke, my question is really this. If you talk reconciliation I want to understand your approach. I've heard you, but I am hearing you saying the reconciliation that you're seeking is for the victims or whoever were the witnesses to reach out and amend their statements of the past. But you not, you not seem to wanting any reconciliation in any active way reaching out to the victims themselves.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Commissioner, for my side, I've got absolutely no objection to saying sorry to the deceased's mother. She used to be my uncle's wife's friend. They are staying hardly 10 metres away from each other. And if I could, I would like to restore that relationship. But I know that's not only dependent on me. It's a two-way street.

MR MALAN: Yes.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: What I give I would like to get back from them to.

MR MALAN: Sure, but you can only get it back once you give. And you cannot give on condition if you talk about reconciliation. And you'll have to see the response. To cut it short, would it be worthwhile your meeting with the deceased and can that we be arranged by Mr Steenkamp or someone else.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: I've got absolutely no objection to that, your Worship.

MR MALAN: You see, Mr Bekebeke, it's one thing to say you're sorry, and I'm reading in it, that if you could've turned the events, turned time back, you would have wanted the events to be differently. You would have prepared it not to have happened.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Definitely, definitely, Commissioner.

MR MALAN: And therefore, in a sense it's not to say I don't have an objection to being sorry, it's saying I am sorry that the event did take place. And if that message could be conveyed and if it really would convey your sentiments, then maybe there may be a response. There may not be a response, we don't know. But if we talk reconciliation, and we talk specifically the community there, then I would, I would personally want to ask you to make yourself available maybe to a meeting, and if you would see your way open. If it does not have the desired results, then so be it. But if it has, who knows?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: From my side, I've got absolutely no objection, your Worship.

MR MALAN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes, thank you, Mr Bekebeke. And you know the sentiments that my colleague has conveyed to you, you know is endorsed by this whole panel. Yes, Mr Steenkamp, is there anything else that you want?

ADV STEENKAMP: Nothing, Mr Chairman, except that I am informed that the family would like to meet the applicant as well. Obviously they are still feeling hurt and bad emotion, there's still a lot of emotional stress, and they lost a family member, but they're willing to facilitate a meeting with the applicant, if he's willing to speak to them. The mother of the deceased is here today. Her feeling is if it's any help possible to resolve this matter, they feel that, because apparently there's direct and indirect family ties between the applicant and his family and the victim's family. And if that can be restored in any way, if that is possible, they have a commitment to do so as well. Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Steenkamp. As I have already indicated that in our view is the most appropriate approach towards this matter, so it would be of assistance if you could perhaps try and facilitate that sort of contact.

MR MALAN: Mr Chairman, if I may make a last appeal to all parties, both victims and applicants. If we can look at the past on the basis of a past that if we all could wish it away, we would have done so. In that sense, the conflict of the past, from whichever vantage point we're viewing it, was really the main perpetrator so to speak of suffering, causing suffering amongst both victims and perpetrators, on all sides of the conflict.
	And if the meeting would lead to accepting that, to put the past beyond us and to indeed fully restore the relationships of family, friendships, then this process would have been worthwhile. And that is my appeal for the meeting to both the victims and the applicant, and when having met with each other, walking away to really take this future on hand in hand, as co-builders of a future both restoring and building on what is ahead. Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you. It's just after 11 o'clock. We will take the tea adjournment at this stage. We want to consider the matter and we will let you know what course we're going to take Mr Steenkamp. So we will stand down for a short while.
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