Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

WITNESS: We were in transit in Dakawa. I had said that I wasgoing to a university, so we were waiting for scholarships. The others weregoing for training. It so happened that one day when I got to Dakawa I had aproblem with the ANC alliance as well as the South African Communist Party.When I encountered this problem I approached the authorities. I had made a decisionthat I wouldn't be able to be a member of ANC because of its alliance with theSouth African Communist Party. When I got to this authority, who was a Pioneer,he was a security. The security was dealing with everything that was happeningthere. I told him my problem, then he called all the others, as well as theco-ordinator of the transit camp. They sat down. They said I should explainmy case. I went on to explain, and I told them that I had joined the AfricanNational Congress, but I learned later on that it had an alliance with the South African Communist Party, andaccording to my beliefs I don't go along with that, so I felt I should resignfrom the South African National Congress. They told me that they would callme later on, but that I knew what was happening so I wasn't supposed to communicateit to anyone else. I told them that I knew it because that is why I had approachedthem. So I went back. A day thereafter somebody came to me. I was called tothe office once more. I went. He introduced himself as Nthu. Nthu was a securityfrom Mazimbo. He said to me I should relate that - I felt I should resign fromthe African National Congress. They persuaded me that I should not resign, becauseif I resign life is going to be tough for me in Tanzania as a refugee. So theydidn't want to see people from South Africa suffering in Tanzania. I said Idon't know about that, but it's going to be difficult for me to go on in somethingthat I don't believe in. They said to me I should go and rethink the matterover, then they would call me once more. I should go and sleep over it. Fromthat day on I observed something that wherever I was going there was alwayssurveillance. Whether I was going to the bush or whether I was going to relievemyself there was always somebody watching me. I approached the security to findout what was going on. He told me there was nothing going on, and he asked mewhy should I ask such a question. Then I left him alone. Nthu came back. Thenthey asked me what was my decision. I told them that I had made the final decision.They left me alone, they never said anything, then they went. I stayed therewithout encountering any problem. Life was normal. Then it so happened - I think it was - I am not sure about the times at which this happened.It was in August. We were taken in buses from Dakawa to Mazimbo. At that timethe then President of the African National Congress, Oliver Thambo, was coming,so we were going to meet him. He was going to address us. Everybody was happy.I was also happy too, because it was going to be my first time to see a manwho had been referred by the boers as a terrorist or somebody who was abominable.I was happy to go and see him. When we got to Mazimbo there were a lot of people.Mazimbo is just outside Morogoro. The place was full. We had come to see thePresident. Our bus arrived a little bit late when he was about to finish hisspeech, so we were standing at the far end. We couldn't see him properly. Atthe time that he was leaving, when he was getting into his car, everybody triedto rush and have a glimpse of the President. Where I was standing, when I movedon to get a glimpse of the President I felt somebody pulling me from the back.When I looked I saw a Pioneer. He asked me where I was going. I said I wantedto see the President. He said I mustn't do that. He said just like that. ThenI said what did he mean. He said to me I shouldn't do it. I didn't understandwhat he meant. By that time people were getting into their cars. He got intohis car. The convoy left. We got into our buses. I was very troubled by thePioneer's behaviour. I was asking myself as to what was happening. We went backto Dakawa. Life just went on as normal. Nthu paid me regular visits, but hewasn't saying anything in particular. We stayed there until December, if I rememberwell. It happened that we went out with other Comrades to a village. So we wentto that village. We came back a little bit late. When we got therewe found that the supper had already been eaten, but we couldn't get any supper.When we got back we were so hungry. I decided to go to the dining hall. WhenI got to the dining hall I went to the logistics and I spoke to one ComradeKenny Rogers. I told him that I was hungry, please organise me something. Weknow that we are late. He started talking funny language, then he asked me whosent us out, we are not going to get any food. He further told us that therewas food, but we weren't going to get it. I pleaded with him to give us somefood. He told us that he wanted us to feel that he was the boss in the logistics.He was in charge and he could do anything, and there was absolutely nothingwe do about that. We kept on begging him. Comrade kept on talking and we feltvery disturbed by what he was saying. I started answering him. I told him, "Thisis not your food, this is the ANC food, so we want the food so you must givethe food to us."

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... interrupt you again. Can we just move on towhen your troubles really started, because we're having these long stories beforethe actual incidents take place. If you could try and move ahead to - is itcorrect that after this argument with Comrade Rogers he reported you to someother Comrades, and then your troubles really started? Is that correct? ---Yes, it is correct.

MR LAX: Can you carry on from there please?