Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-10

CHAIRPERSON: How would you have dreamed of taking three armed persons that you have described as having been so dangerous?  You apprehend them on your own, you take them to the community?  Is that conceivable?

JOEL MHLAHLEMI SESHABA: No that was not conceivable.  I indicated that I followed them alone from a distance and I could have spoken to them and had I had other people who would back me up I would not have killed them and there were no other self defence unit members nearby.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are saying that even though it was stated intention of the SDU formation to kill members of the Toaster Gang in defence to the community, you were not prepared to do so?

JOEL MHLAHLEMI SESHABA: Yes, I was not prepared to kill, I was prepared to ensure that they take back whatever they took from the shop.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take a lunch adjournment for thirty minutes and we'll reconvene at 2 o'clock.  Mr Shakoane, can we see you in chambers?
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR SHAKOANE: I place it on record at this stage that given the difficulties in the evidence of the applicant which to that degree deviate from the consultations that I had with him, I find myself in a position where I ask leave from the Committee to withdraw from the matter and then he can find another representative to continue his case.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shakoane, we understand your difficulties and we have no option but to grant you that leave to withdraw from the matter.

MR SHAKOANE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We wish to thank you for the assistance that you nevertheless gave to this Committee.
	Ms Thabete, what is the position?  Are we in a position to assist Mr Seshaba with a legal representative so that we can proceed with this matter?

MS THABETE: Madame Chair, I'll speak to Patience, one of the ANC representatives, to try and arrange for legal representation for Mr Seshaba.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe you can do that and if one is found then this matter may be capable of being proceeded with sometime next week?

MS THABETE: I'll do so Madame Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you then advise the Committee in chambers of the discussions that you would have had with Patience about legal representation for Mr Seshaba so that we can know whether it is a matter that must be accommodated for the next week's roll?

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair, I'll do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   Mr Shakoane, you are permitted to leave.  Thank you.

MR SHAKOANE: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHAKOANE
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, now that this matter will have to stand down until further instructions have been obtained from the ANC's TRC desk, where do we go from here?  We were to hear the two matters of Mr Mahlangu and Mr Dithage?

MS THABETE: Madame Chair, Advocate Mphaga who is representing Mr Mahlangu and Mr Mokhasoane has just telephoned me.  He went there to look for them, he found one of the applicants who expressed some view regarding his application but I would like to talk to the Committee in chambers about this and he said he'll be coming here, he'll here by half past 3, he would like to give a report back to the Committee Members.

CHAIRPERSON: That being the case I think we shall adjourn and reconvene tomorrow at half past 9.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS