Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-18

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Well I obviously followed closely the reports in the newspaper about the unfortunate victims, far more unfortunate than me, who lost people close to them, dear to them through terrifying circumstances.  I feel that where there has been some substantial suffering and financial loss, if possible, that should be compensated for in some
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way. I'm not in a position to say how, why and where, but I'll give you and example.  I phoned up my medical aid yesterday to get some details because I thought you might ask me this question, and they told me that they had paid out between 90 and 95 percent of the medical costs incurred, my share of it according to them is R 7 690, which means that they paid out close to R100 000 in medical expenses alone, and I of course had enormous losses in my legal practice, terrible expenses flying everywhere, I could not recover my psychologist's costs because medical aid don't cover that.  I was sent to a medical institution in Grahamstown, luckily for only one day because when my son arrived the next day he said, "You might be mad but not as mad as some of the people here, I'm taking you out", and luckily being a voluntary patient, he was able to take me out and I was then taken to a psychiatric clinic in Port Elizabeth where I spent a good deal of time, and went back a second time, and that did me a certain amount of good.
 But all in all this was at the time when I was supposed to be running a legal practice, and you can't cut yourself in three pieces and be in three places at the same time.  Luckily I had a competent secretary who managed to keep me going, but from that side my losses were very substantial indeed.  But maybe that's a fact of life, I don't know. It's up to the people who are going to decide whether or not what will be, and I will accept whatever they say, but I do think that where there has been a substantial loss to all the victims, no please, I don't doubt that myself in any way, and I think that if it's possible they should be financially assisted in some way by somebody.

JUNE CRICHTON: Well the losses our people have suffered have EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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been impossible and I hear what you're saying and I agree with you.  And now I think I'd like to hand you back to our chairperson, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  There may be questions that somebody wants to ask.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Yes certainly, I must mention that I was warned by my advocate yesterday to be careful in what I say, and what I answer.  May I hand in these reports please which we think are very relevant and they will help.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Please they must be confidential to the Commission, please.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  We all take an oath...(intervention)

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Those are all psychiatric reports Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We also take an oath of confidentiality.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: I'll answer any questions I can, if I feel they, and I was warned yesterday, they do infringe on the sub judiciae rule, then I will tell you Mr Chairman.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Mr Stanford, could you help us out?  How do you think or how would you like the Macdonalds and the Davises remembered?

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Well there is already a memorial erected to them on the golf course in Kingwilliamstown. It is impossible I think for me to make a suggestion in that regard, I don't know, I'd be lying if I tried to make a suggestion.  I haven't thought about it at all.

MR SANDI: Mr Stanford, I don't like to ask people to give me their personal opinions on issues but it does happen sometimes that you have to ask people what do they think about this and that. As you are aware that this is a truth
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and reconciliation commission, do you perhaps have any views to express on the issue of reconciliation?

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Well I think reconciliation is taking place right now.  It seems to me in the broader sense, in the narrow sense there are prosecutions pending and taking place I understand, for both sides.  That is a matter of law, isn't it, it's not for us to interfere with that, but I think that reconciliation is essential if the country is to succeed at all and I think it's vital that it becomes part and parcel of everyone's life.  Does that answer your question?

CHAIRPERSON: Just before I say thank you and ask you to stand down, I just want to let you know that we keep being struck by the extraordinary quality of people who have come before us, and I think it is unusual for someone to be able to speak as openly as you have done about your medical condition, and that you should be speaking with such remarkable lack of bitterness, and we just want you to know that on behalf of ourselves, and I think on behalf of many in our country, that we are enormously grateful and thank God for you.

ROBERT NORMAN STANFORD: Thank you Archbishop.  Thank you very much for your patience.