Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-27

CHAIRPERSON: We are supposed to have started at ten o'clock, but, as you can see, one of us is missing.  She is not here yet.  There have been some problems this morning which caused her to, not to be here at the time when she should have been here.  So, we thought we should apologise to you.  We know that some of you probably come from very far and you might be wondering as to what is happening.  We will not be able to start until, at the earliest, half past 11, by which time, hopefully, our missing member will be here and as soon as she arrives we will start.  So, we will just adjourn until that time.  We apologise for the inconvenience.

MR VISSER: I am just wondering whether we could not spend the time fruitfully while we wait for Ms Khampepe.  At the last hearings and, particularly, at the very last one there was, again, confusion as to the documents in the matter which should serve before you and what witnesses should be before you.  Just very shortly, I do not want to go into a long story, but at that stage the approach of Mr Mpshe was that basically only the two applicants are what is necessary, but the background here is two people have been convicted and a whole number of witnesses may shed light on what you are supposed to investigate in this matter.
	I am just wondering, Mr Chairman, well, from that point of view, Justice Mall ordered that a further pre-trial conference had to be held under the Chairmanship of one of the members of the Amnesty Committee and that has not been held and I am just wondering whether it may not be an idea if one of the two gentlemen presiding today would be prepared to assist us in having a short pre-trial conference.  We may sort out, out a lot of matter which is just going to take up time later.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think that can be done and, maybe, we should adjourn and then we will pursue that aspect in chambers.  We will adjourn.
HEARING ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: ... 27 October 1997.  Hearings held in Kimberley in respect of the applications of K L Mbatha and W Smiles.  Applications number 3363/96 and 3364/96, respectively and, again, for the record, the panel consists of myself, Judge Ngoepe, and to my left Adv de Jager, SC, and to my right Attorney Khampepe.  Mr Mpshe is leading the evidence.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am J Mpshe for the Amnesty Committee within the Truth Commission.

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Adv Tsholanku for both applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Will everyone else please place themselves on record?

MR VISSER: May it please you Mr Chairman.  For the record, Louis Visser, I am instructed by Wagener, Muller and du Plessis.  We appear on behalf of certain persons implicated.  They are Petrus Johannes van der Kolf, Christiaan Nataniel Erasmus, Bogiso Moses Kapanda, Gert Adolf Rossouw and Gavin Stewart Starke.  They were all, at the time of the incident and in regard to which you will hear evidence, policemen in the service of the South African Police.

PROF DE KOKER: May it please you, Mr Chairman, Louis de Koker appearing in conjunction with Adv Jean Nel who is also appearing on her own behalf as a victim.

MR BODE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am Mr R Bode.  I am representing a number of victims.  At this point in time there is a limited number of victims that have mandated me.  This number may be increased as the hearing continues as I am aware of the fact that all of the victims are not yet present here at the hearing.  For purpose of the record, I will spell the names of those victims that I am representing at this point in time, Mr Chairperson.
	First of all there are the parents of a certain deceased Mr Ezekiel Mokone, M O K O N E.  The names of the parents are Mr A and Mrs E Mokone, M O K O N E.  Then, Mr Chairperson, there is a number of victims that were, in fact, injured during the blast at the Trust Bank Centre here in Kimberley.  Their names are as follows:  Mr D Bethanie, B E T H A N I E, Ms A Kgoro, K G O R O, Ms M Motobe, M O T O B E.  Mr Chairperson, I wish to point out that on the initial list of victims her name was spelt as Mothibe, M O T H I B E, but the correct spelling is, in fact, M O T O B E and then, lastly, Mr Chairperson, Mr F Moremedi, M O R E M E D I.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: (...Indistinct) for us.

MR BODE: I will do so, Mr Chairperson.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mpshe.