Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-27

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: No, I did not.  I was riding because I was with the crowd of the peoples, so I did not actually go to the direction that this person has asked me to follow.  Then I saw the shooting and the dripping of blood.

PANEL MEMBER: I would also like to refer to the fact that at 17 you were working and how far had you gone at school?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: I had gone as far as Std.3 because my mother was a pensioner and there was other children and therefore we could not manage to help my mother.

PANEL MEMBER: That is the main reason why I'm asking because there are many stories that we can relate about the suffering and the bad life that people have led.  So it means even earlier at an early tender stage you were working.

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: I started to work in 1986 and I left school in Std.3 because I could not proceed with my education.  Thank you.

PANEL MEMBER: Just a few last questions, could you please come closer.  We are going to give ourselves time to go to the scene and to go and have a look at it.  Maybe when we get there you will again explain to us some questions that are still not clear.  You were in front of the crowd.

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes, I was in front of the procession.  They were following after me.

PANEL MEMBER: So the instructions that was given to people to disperse could have reached your ears first before the other people?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes.

PANEL MEMBER: Was there any other order?
UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
7 K BUCWA

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: There was none.

PANEL MEMBER: Secondly, who actually fired, who made the first shot?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: It was Lieutenant Fouche, the one who had raised his hand.  He was the first to shoot, and then the other policemen started shooting and I fell down and I could hear some gun shots and they got off the hippo and they kicked me.

PANEL MEMBER: What was the distance between the procession and the casper, could you perhaps estimate the distance?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: I could say the hippos were where we are and people were there next to those doors, and I was closer to the hippos.

PANEL MEMBER: In this Uitenhage story there is a mention of the name Rastafarian, which comes from another version as the person who was the leader.  Did you perhaps see this Rastafarian as you were walking down the street?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes, I saw him, he was in front of the crowd.

PANEL MEMBER: Was he shot and killed on the spot?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes Sir.

PANEL MEMBER: What was his contribution towards this march.  Is it true that he was the leader of the crowd?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes, he was the leader, he was asking the people to walk one side so as to give way to the cars.  He was maintaining order so that the cars should drive past.

PANEL MEMBER: So you mean this was an orderly procession?

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: Yes, it was because this man had asked that people should walk in a row and hold hands to show that they were in an orderly manner.

PANEL MEMBER: This report we get from Mr Fouche that these people ...(tape ends)... see some armed people.
UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
8 K BUCWA

KWANELE MOSES BUCWA: No, they were not armed, in fact even the stones, I saw, I saw them in court.  So when I did not remember the bicycle, then they said they were going to bring all this exhibition to court so that we should talk about things we see.  So I was shown the bicycle, I was shown a big stone which was said I was carrying and several other stones that they said that these people were holding and yet I had not seen anyone with a stone.  Now they say these people were going to stone the Whites.  There was also an old bottle of the steri milk which was there and it was full of dust which showed that it was all empty.

PANEL MEMBER: We thank you, Mr Bucwa. We thank you that we now know you.  We read a lot about a boy on a bicycle not knowing that you are the actual person. We are going
to adjourn for about 10 minutes and we shall resume at 11:15.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS