Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you said the police who shot your son youcan actually identify them even if you don't know their names.

WITNESS: I said Icould not identify them because they were white policemen.

MRS GCABASHE: The one who went back, who survived, who came to look - whocame to inspect the site of death, is it possible for you to identify him? ---No, I cannot identify him because he was actually looking down. I couldn't seehim properly.

MRS GCABASHE: After your son's death did you get any letter that told youas to how he died?

WITNESS: No, I never got anything.

MRS GCABASHE: Were there any court appearances or inquiries or an inquest?--- There was nothing, absolutely nothing.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you said your son was getting R100,00 a month.What was that for?

WITNESS: He wasn't getting anything. I wasn't getting anything.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement that's where you speak about R100,00. Youwere not getting any money?

WITNESS: No, I wasn't getting any.

MRS GCABASHE: As you are on pension how much are you getting for your pension?--- I get R410,00. R410,00.

MRS GCABASHE: What about your other children, are they still at school orare they working?

WITNESS: The elder ones are working. Only two are attending school.I am educating them.

MRS GCABASHE: We know that we can't really help you besides tell you thatwe sympathise with you, because it is apparent that your son was quite an ordinarychild, and he was very sickly. In your statement you said he was from the hospitalto take his medication. Who was examining him or who was treating him?

WITNESS: Heused to fetch his medication from the hospital.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you have any documents or cards to indicate?

WITNESS: I neverwent to the hospital to look for them.

MRS GCABASHE: Is it possible for you to get them?

WITNESS: I don't know whetherit's possible. The records should be there.  Even though we don't have muchthat we can do, but we would like to know if in your mind what would you likeus to help you with? --- I really don't know. I can't say what I want the Commissionto do.

MRS GCABASHE: What happened to his clothes? Did you get them thereafter?

WITNESS: Yes, I got the clothes.

MRS GCABASHE: What did they look like?

WITNESS: They had a lot of holes, but itseems he didn't bleed. There were holes on his shoulder as well as the tummy.He bled internally.

MRS GCABASHE: Were the other children involved in the student organisation?--- No, they weren't.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you very much, Mrs Lowape. We sympathise with you verymuch. We shall try to hand over to our Chairman. Thank you for having the courageto come and tell us what happened to your son. If there's any help that we canoffer we shall try by all means to find out who did this. The Commission willhelp you in that manner.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much. Any other questionsor comments? Dr Magwaza.

DR MAGWAZA: We are aware that this is a very difficulttime for you. I have one more question just to clarify. Was your son involvedin any political movement? Did he go to any gatherings for any political party?--- He wasn't involved with any political organisations.

DR MAGWAZA: The second thing, I am concerned about you and your family.How did this affect you, how did it change your life and that of your family,the death of your son?

WITNESS: It was a very painful thing because we all lovedhim. We had accepted what God had given us.

DR MAGWAZA: Okay, thank you.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Lowape, do you know whether anyone elsewas killed on that day along with your son?

WITNESS: No, he was the only one whowas killed on that particular day. It's only after a few months that other childrenstarted dying.

MR LYSTER: In your statement it is written that there was an inquest thatwas held after your son's death. Now, do you recall that there was any courtcase?

WITNESS: There's absolutely that happened. Nothing happened.

MR LYSTER: What address were you living at at that time, Mrs Lowape?--- I was staying at 251 in Thabong.

MR LYSTER: What is the nearest Magistrate's Court to Thabong?

WITNESS: Thereis a police station in Thabong.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... big town to Thabong? Is it Welkom, Bloemfontein.--- It's Bloemfontein.

MR LYSTER: Okay. Well, we will make inquiries at the Magistrate's Courtin Bloemfontein to see whether there are any documents relating to an inquest.Did the shooting take place in Thabong township? Is that where you were livingat the time that your son was killed?

WITNESS: Yes, I was staying in Thabong at thattime.

MRS GCABASHE: Can I make a correction?

DR BORAINE: Yes, please, Mrs Gcabashe.

MRS GCABASHE: Thabong is a township of Welkom. It'sjust like Bloemfontein and Butsabelo.

DR BORAINE: Mrs Lowape, we have listened very carefullyto your story. In the case of someone dying through shooting there's usuallyan inquiry made by the police, even though it was the police who shot him, andwhy we were asking exactly where were you living is because we want to try andfind out if there are any court records or any details of what happened on that17th of August in 1984. It sounds as though it may be that they were firingand your son was an innocent victim walking past, like so  many other people who have died in cross-fire in our country.But we don't know, so we have to try and find out. If we are able to find outwe will then come and tell you, so that at least you know exactly what happened.Because if they were responsible then they should accept that responsibilitypublicly, and also there should be some proceedings. We will try and do ourbest.
But to have 16-year-old son who already not strong, with oneleg, and to have him killed so brutally, is much pain, and we feel for you verydeeply, and we are so grateful that you have come to tell us. We hope that evenin the telling of the story, in the sharing, some of the burden will leave you,and at least you will know that the Commission appointed by the President andthe nation knows what happened to your son. Thank you very much for coming.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... you can hear me clearly?

MORGAN SABATHA PHEHLANI: Yes, I can hear you very clear.

DR BORAINE: That's very good. I can hear you as well,so we're now ready to start. We want to welcome you very warmly on behalf ofthe Commission, and we are grateful to you for taking the trouble to come andsharing with us what sounds, from your statement, to be a very, very grim andhorrifying experience with the death of your wife, severe assault against yourson, destruction of property. This was a very, very, awful, awful experience,and we are going to listen to you very carefully. Before you start though wouldyou please stand for the taking of the oath?

MORGAN SABATHA PHEHLANI: I don't need an interpreter.

DR BORAINE: Okay.

MORGAN SABATHA PHEHLANI: (Sworn, States)

DR BORAINE: Would you prefer to give your evidence inEnglish as well, or in Sotho, or which language?

WITNESS: I will give my evidencein English, Mr Chairman.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much indeed. Well, without any further ado Iam going to ask Mr Lyster if he will take over from me, and put some questionsto you and help you to tell this horrifying story. Thank you.

WITNESS: Thank you,Mr Chairman.

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mr Phehlani. Now, the incidentswhich you have highlighted in your statement took place in July 1991.

WITNESS: Thatis correct.