Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

THABI NGANGE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may sit down.  We welcome you Mrs Thabi Ngange.  We apologize for mis-pronouncing your name.

THABI NGANGE: The people who wrote our statement made that mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: Please put on earphones because you will be asked in English.

JUNE CRICHTON: Are you hearing me now, Mrs Ngange ?  You can speak Xhosa.  Can you hear me ?

THABI NGANGE: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: Inisi Xhondo you spoke about the pain that this country has experienced and especially this area and you have come to tell us about the pain of the incident that happened in your family.  To your sister and to your mother.  Now, first of all, would you tell me, where you living at home at the time that this happened ?

THABI NGANGE: We were coming from work.  We were working for Kenny.  We were coming  from  work  at  about half past five.  When  we  were about to arrive at home, we
saw a lot of people in the corner.  We went into our yard, our home's yard.  We saw my mother and my father and children outside.  I saw Goodman amongst the people who were there, I saw Boyi Xhoshini Xnuxnu was one of the people who were there.  They told us to leave, together with my mother.  It was myself, Funeka, my mother and Nogxnena.  We went to Komga.  They surrounded us, telling us to tell them the truth.  We asked the, the truth about what ?  They said, we know.  We told them we don't know anything.  One woman by the name of Nolifisi came.  Nolifisi said that they went to a witchdoctor and it was found that my mother was killing Nolifisi's brother.  She was bewitching Nolifisi's brother.  My mother said that I had to be taken alone.  They asked me why we were not getting married at home.  They said that Funeka and Ginesa were divorced, they came home, they stayed together with myself and my mother.  They took us back.  Noyuepi said that this woman has got to go to a witchdoctor to find out the truth.  They said that we were going to pay out this witchdoctor, to bribe her.  They asked us many questions.  Some we could not answer.  There were four tyres next to me, together with a 5 litre of petrol.  It was myself, my mother, Funeka and Zanele.

JUNE CRICHTON: I'm going to nterrupt you now, just to ask you a question so that we can have clarity. The man who had died, was the man who had died Stwayi, was he the one that died, and this was the one that you, your mother and sister were being blamed for, by the witchdoctor ?  Is that correct ?

THABI NGANGE: It was Ndodogu.

JUNE CRICHTON: Now, can you tell me what actually happened on that day, on the, on the  14th,  what  actually  happened.  How did it culminate.  What happened to your sister
and to your mother ?

MR SANDI: Please listen Ma'am.   What is your clan name ?

THABI NGANGE: I'm Mamgwevu.

MR SANDI: Please listen Mamgwevu.  I have a question for you.  Where there political organizations in the community, UDF, ADM or ANC ?

THABI NGANGE: There was one organization, it was ANC.

MR SANDI: Was it a conflict, was there a conflict amongst ANC members ?

THABI NGANGE: No, there was no conflict.

MR SANDI: This issue, is it politically motivated, or what ?

THABI NGANGE: Please repeat.

MR SANDI: Your mother's incident and your sister's incident, does this have to do with any political activity ?

THABI NGANGE: No.

MR SANDI: This was just a crime against your family.  A crime from people who were not disciplined ?  Can you hear me ?

THABI NGANGE: Yes.

MR SANDI: Mr Chairperson, I will hand over to you.  I think you'll be the one who can forward this case.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Ngange, this is a very difficult case for us but what we would like to know is that in your statement you said that the people who necklaced, or who killed Nomriti and Funeka were comrades.

THABI NGANGE: Yes, they were comrades.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean by saying that  they were  comrades ?  Were  they
leaders of ANC.

THABI NGANGE: They were people from the ANC, we were together in this organization.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they leaders ?

THABI NGANGE: Yes, they were leaders.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there a court case ?  Was there a court case Ma'am ?

THABI NGANGE: Yes, there was a court case.

CHAIRPERSON: Where ?

THABI NGANGE: In East London.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the outcome of the court case ?

THABI NGANGE: I did not hear about their sentences but when I was, when I went back home, I heard that they were sentenced, but I did not hear for how long.

CHAIRPERSON: You, you were not told for how long were they sentenced ?

THABI NGANGE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they sentenced for life, or what ?

THABI NGANGE: They were sentenced and then they were released again.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they pay money ?

THABI NGANGE: I don't know whether they were, they had to pay money, but they were arrested for a while.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your request, Mrs Ngange, to the Commission, what would you like the Commission to do for you concerning this incident ?

THABI NGANGE: Funeka's child is with me.  I would like Funeka's child to be supported.  I don't have a place to stay because we left everything in that village.  We have no place to stay,  together  with  Funeka's  child.  I  would like  Funeka's  child  to  be educated and I would like to be provided with a home because we left everything in that village.  We left with my father.  My father died.  We were staying in a one roomed house at that time.  I don't have a place to stay now, because I cannot work.  I'm looking after Funeka's children and my two children.  My father was the one who was supporting me but now he passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you like some water Ma'am.  Lastly, you mentioned Tshemese Xungxu and others.  You said that they took part, they were involved in the killing of these two people.  Do you see them now ?

THABI NGANGE: Goodman Tshemese was looked after by my father, their father was working away.  He was not looking after them but they said that my mother was a witch and they killed her.  They were staying in my home.  My father was supporting them.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know them , do you see them now ?

THABI NGANGE: Goodman is here.  There he is.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ma'am, we will investigate this case.  As a Commission, we work under law.  We have to look at issues which were brought by a political conflict.  If we find out that your case is not politically, was not politically motivated, we will tell you to go to the court of law, because we are not here to find out about what happened in the communities, but for now, I cannot say whether this falls under our law, or you have to go to a court of law.  We will investigate and we will talk to Goodman Xugxnu.  We'll ask them to appear in front of the Commission to answer certain questions.  For now we would like thank you.  You may go back to your seat Ma'am.