Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-24

WITNESS:   Do you know, the conditions were terrible in the sense that before I left the country I was, you know, detained on various occasions, and for sure I also spent some time - I think about four months or so - in prison in South Africa, one of our whatever main prisons in Bloemfontein.  And the conditions were terrible enough, if you get the point.  And at that time I didn't mind because I knew that - I regarded the Government basically as my enemy, and I didn't expect any sympathy from the Government, if you get the points, so I accepted the conditions that I found myself in.  But when I was locked up by my own organisation, the organisation that I had sacrificed so much for it, and for no apparent reason, without any explanation whatsoever, I was really - I mean I really shed tears at that point in time because, as I am saying, no explanation was given, I didn't know why I was arrested.  And the conditions were - I am sure that there are people in South Africa who were, you know, put in gaol conditions which were very terrible, but unfortunately the conditions that I found myself in when I was in the movement or whatever's detention were more terrible than the conditions that I found myself in when I was detained in South Africa, because during my imprisonment here in South Africa at least I had a toilet that I could use, and when I was the organisation or whatever's detention I had no toilet, I just had a tin, which was a small tin, which I had to use.  And the room was dark.  In fact I cannot even call it a room.  It looks like a room from outside, but inside it's basically like a dug-out because it's very deep, you go downstairs, and with - I can say with no ventilation, because there are no windows, there's nothing.  And I mean it's dark.  I mean you can hardly see a person inside unless you stay for some time.  If you can stay let's say for two or three hours, that's when you start, you know, getting used to the darkness and then you can see a person, you know, inside.  And I mean it was - I mean it was really terrible, I mean, for me, you know, to find myself in conditions like those.  And I remember when I was in detention and in prison here in South Africa we sometimes used to - at some stage we had hunger strikes because we were like complaining about the food that we were given at the prison, but when I was in the movement's detention sometimes I would go without eating at all.  At times I would get like one meal a day, at times, like I am saying, I wouldn't get, you know, food at all, if you get the point.  And there were some sort of flimsy excuses.  And I mean basically they were terrible.  There was - I mean if I was an enemy agent maybe I would have accepted the conditions, but nothing was ever said to me that, "You are an enemy agent," or, "We are detaining you because of one, two, three."  So that is why even today I still want that explanation.  I still want it, I mean, from the movement, and also maybe from the Government side.  And I really want each side to come up clearly and say - if the Government makes insinuations that I was working for it I want them to say that, "This person was working for us," and maybe come with - I don't want them to prove it, a mere allegation is enough.  Then I'll be able to disprove it myself.  And if the ANC can say, "This person was working for the system," I want them to come up with mere allegation.  I am not saying they should prove it, they must just say, "This person was working for the system."  Just allegation is enough, then I'll be able to disprove it, if you get the point.  I am not saying they should come up with evidence or anything like that, if you get the point, but at least I'll be content if I can get explanations.  And I am sorry, I am not trying to make a speech, and unfortunately what happened, and what is still happening - that's why I decided to come here today - is that people don't come to me and say, "You did one, two, three."  Instead they make allegations and insinuations to people who are surrounding me.  And the unfortunate part is that all these things happened, and people knew that I was abducted by the Security Police.  And, as I said, I was very active here in South Africa and in - you know, in Bloemfontein, in Free State in general, if you get the point.  And the people were surprised.  When I came back, you know, I didn't want to have anything to do with politics, and I didn't give an explanation.  Even my own family members they will be hearing this thing for the first time, if you get the point.  They were never political, but they are now today more political than I am, if you get the point.  They are wondering why - what went wrong, and the allegations that the movement is making against me confirm - I mean in fact my attitude, my silence, confirms the allegations that maybe there was something wrong with me, if you get the point, because I decided just to keep quiet, not to say anything against the movement.  I have been quiet.  I mean I went abroad.  Unfortunately I went abroad, I went to school, I did everything, and I was just quiet.  And I struggled to go to school, if you get the point, and I mean people maybe are asking themselves where I got money from, and for sure people are making their own whatever assumptions and allegations, and they don't know how much I struggled to get money to go to school.  And that is why I am saying I decided to take this platform, because I want everything to come out, if you get the point.  People should stop saying all the kinds of things that they are saying.  I want explanations from the Government and also from the movement, then I will be content. Okay.  Thank you very much, Mr Jacob.  You took a long time, but I think for you it's going to be very helpful, especially if you say you are sharing this for the first time.  It looks like you are looking for some form of vindication, as well as getting some communication with people who perceived you otherwise.  I know - I can see you are hurt and you are quite - there's a bit of pain, but thank you very much again.  I will hand over to the Chairperson.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Just one question, Mr Khang, just so I can try and situate this thing.  You escaped, you said, on the 9th of October, but you didn't give us the year.

WITNESS:   I think it was in 1988.

MR LAX: 1988.  Thank you.  That's all, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you, Mr Mbafane, I can see that you are really angry.  You are an angry young man who wants to get explanations about what happened to you, and I think the Truth Commission is about that, that the stories must come out, and people who are hurt must say that they are hurt, and they must get the explanations of why they are hurt, especially this with you, that you say that even your family, you have never said anything to them, and they are wondering what is happening to you when they knew that you are an activist.  We thank you for coming here.  Your requests will be followed as you have required, and we hope you will get the explanations from the Government and from the ANC.  Thank you very much.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Now, may we call upon Mr Aaron Simon Thabo to come on the stage please.  Good morning, Sir, are you fine?

AARON SIMON THABO: Yes, I am fine, Sir, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you tell your story - you have come here to tell a story relating to a shooting at your home.  Now, before you tell it I am going to ask Ilan Lax to make you take an oath.

AARON SIMON THABO: (Sworn, States)  (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Aaron, I am going to be asking you some questions, and please do relax so that you can say what you want to say very comfortably.  Is it true that you reside at 860 Cape Sands?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you born there?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.