Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1997-02-10

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: He was 17 years old at the time.  It was early in the morning, the White policeman came with the Councillor.  I didn't know the White policeman, I only know the Councillor who was Xolile Dosini.
 They didn't knock at the door, instead they kicked the door.  When I asked, they said open up.  Because I was just discharged from the hospital, though I was still sick, I tried to stand up to open up the door - when I opened the door, they asked me where is Rocky, I said Rocky is asleep, what's wrong?
 They said they were looking for him.  I said he was in the bedroom that was next to mine.  They went there to that 
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bedroom and I followed them.  When he stood up, Dosini lit him with a torch, he said don't do that because I must first get my clothes.  He said, you are not going to tell me what to do.
 I said, you can't talk like that.  Just give my child a chance to dress up, he is not going to get out of the house, naked as if he has killed a person.  They waited for him until he finished dressing up.  When he was about to go out, he said I greet you, Mom and Dad.  
 When he went out Dosini said, we are not going to waste time about you, we are going to deal with you quickly.  They took him out, his father was preparing himself to go to work.  I went back to bed.  
 After some time another van came.  They didn't kick the door this time, they knocked.  I kept quiet, I was sitting on my bed.  I opened the curtains and I could see that there were policemen.  I kept quiet.  They said open up, I didn't respond.
 They ordered me to open the door again, I didn't respond.  They went to the door, the door was not locked because it was in the morning.  When they opened, I remembered that there was a child who was sleeping in the lounge and I went there.
 They asked me if I knew Rocky, I said yes, he is my son.  They asked where is Rocky?  I told them that the police took him.  They asked me the name of the police, I said I don't know the names of the White policeman, I only know the Councillor which is Xolile Dosini.
 They said we are coming to tell you that the police who took your son, have killed him.  They went out of the door.  After they have said that, I couldn't cry.  The only thing 
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that I did, I went out, but I am still wondering - even today - whether I was dressed up when I went to his father in town.
 The neighbours woke up because the children were crying and I was not there.  One of the neighbours who followed me and I was telling her to go back, because I didn't want to be there with anybody, I wanted to be with my God.  And I knew that she was going to disturb me and I told her that if you are accompanying me, you must keep quiet because I am still talking to my Lord.
 When I went to the garage where my husband was working, I saw him.  He was alighting from the police van, he approached me and he told me that the police brought - he asked me if the police came to my house and he also told me that they took him to where my son was, but they didn't let him to come closer to him.  They said he must just stand at a distance and confirm that it was his son.
 They took him back to work.  When we were still talking, there was another van who came to fetch him, my husband.  He gave me the money, the bus fare to go back home and I said, I don't want to take any transport, I don't want to talk to anybody, I don't want to be disturbed, because I am still communicating with my Lord and I am asking the Lord what to do.
 I decided to walk home.  When I arrived home I noticed that there were lots of people, and the teachers were there.  I told them that when the police were taking him, my son, I told them that they must first tell the teachers because he was writing exams.
 What they did, they confused his father, so that he mustn't think about what to do about his son, because each 
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time one other van is bringing him.  Each time the van brought him home, the other van would come and take him back to the police station and they forced his father so sign that he was operated, he must sign the form and then he refused to sign, because he said he was not told about the operation.  The person who made the operation, must sign.
 They told us that we are not going to get the body of my son, they are going to bury him on a Thursday.  He was going to be buried be the Government and we are not allowed to attend the funeral.  He was going to be buried by the police.
 I asked them how can that happen because we are the parents of his boy?  They said, it is the law because whatever he was doing, he was doing it, we are not supposed to be at his funeral, we are not going to attend.
 I tried, I made some attempts because I noticed that the father was still confused.  I went to seek for legal advise from Fishart, who was a legal adviser from Port Elizabeth and I wanted him to come just before the funeral.
 He came, Fishart came on a Wednesday at six o'clock, he went there, when he arrived, the District Commandant of the time asked the attorney where do you get this information, because I just arrived, I was on leave?  I didn't hear anything about that, and you are coming from Port Elizabeth, you have this kind of information?
 The attorney told him that the parents of this boy told him.  They wanted to know who informed Fishart.  Fishart said these parents have another child who is also in Port Elizabeth, who is the one who gave me, Fishart, the message.

UNKNOWN: Let me just interrupt you Mrs James.  Did Fishart help you to get the body of your son to bury it in the
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normal way?

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: Yes, he helped us but they were also forcing us to bury him before time.  I said, he was not going to be buried, the Government have killed my child and he is finished his role and the role is mine.
 He was killed on a Wednesday, we buried him the following week.

UNKNOWN: Were there any disturbances during the funeral?

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: During his funeral there were some disturbances because they were shooting teargas, there was a helicopter that was moving around.  I only noticed all these after we came from the graveyard and I only noticed - I also noticed that the schools were burning.
 After the funeral I took a taxi.  I went to a place called Nolali where Xolile was working.  The Councillor refused me permission to talk to Xolile.  I think they phoned the police station because after that I saw the police vans and the police alighted from the vans, pointing guns and they surrounded me and Xolile came out of the office and I said, don't be afraid, Xolile, I am not going to do anything.  I just want to tell you something.
 As a Xhoza person, if you know that if somebody else have done something wrong to you, you usually go to the inyanga's.  If you don't have money to consult inyanga, tell me, I will give you money to pay your inyanga, because my only inyanga is my God and all that has happened, God will see to it and I left him.
 I went back to the house and even in the house I didn't tell anybody.

UNKNOWN: As far as you know Mrs James, where is Xolile Dosini now?
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NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: I don't know what is he doing there.

UNKNOWN: Can you please tell us now about Rocky again.  You said Rocky at the time was only 16 years old, he was at school?

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Do you know what role did he play in the political organisation or maybe the community organisations?

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: Rocky, at that time, was in the Youth League of the ANC.

UNKNOWN: At the time of his arrest, do you know any reason for his arrest?

NOTUTU LIZZIE JAMES: No.

UNKNOWN: The details of his death, did you get them and what was happening, what did they say about his death?