Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-04-26

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Right, which is the next matter?

MR DE KLERK: Mtolo.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he in custody?

MR DE KLERK: Yes, he's in custody.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct).  We'll take time to consider our decision in that last matter.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson ...

CHAIRPERSON: We now come to the application of Mr Elias Kesla Mtolo.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, before we proceed with Mr Mtolo, I would like to find out from the Logistics Officer if the victim in this matter has arrived.

CHAIRPERSON: If what?

MS MTANGA: If the victim in this matter has arrived at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I take it if they have arrived you will want to talk to them to find out what their instructions, so we will adjourn for a few minutes to enable you to ascertain what the position is.

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Are we now going to deal with the Khwela matter?

MS MTANGA: ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: What's happening to Khwela?

MS MTANGA: Khwela is the one we are going to be - ...(indistinct) making an announcement.

CHAIRPERSON: We're going to adjourn, isn't it?  I was told we would adjourn it now so the victims and others can leave and go home and not have to sit and wait.  Unfortunately, those of you who have been sitting patiently throughout the day, we have three matters set down and we were unable to start as early as we'd hoped to.
	We will not be able to deal with all three matters today and it has been decided that it would be most convenient to adjourn the Khwela application to a later date and then to proceed with the Mtolo matter.  We have been asked to adjourn the Khwela matter to the week between the 17th to the 21st of May.  The matter will be heard in all probability in Pietermaritzburg, but the victims, interested parties and others will receive notification of the precise date of hearing and of where the matter will be heard.
	I'm sorry for all of you who have come here today in the hope of hearing the matter finally disposed of, and have to come again.  We trust it will not happen again.  If you wish to leave now you may do so.  I gather that arrangements will be made to provide transportation for you to go.  
P K KHWELA: AM 3680 - MATTER POSTPONED TO WEEK OF 17.05.99

MR DE KLERK: Mr Chairman, I will call Mr Mtolo.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: (sworn states)

MR DE KLERK: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mtolo, is it correct that you are an IFP member and formerly were residing at the Ndaleni area, close to Richmond?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: That is correct.

MR DE KLERK: Is it correct that you are at this stage at Nkome Prison, where you are serving a sentence of 8 years for robbery?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: That is correct.

MR DE KLERK: Can you please in your own words tell the Commission what happened regarding the taxi that you were convicted of.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Yes, I can explain that.

MR DE KLERK: Proceed.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I met the taxi just along the road.  I knew the taxi and I knew the driver and the owner.  The owner was a friend of mine because sometimes he will bring it in for repairs.

MR DE KLERK: Who was the owner?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: My uncle.

MR DE KLERK: What was his name?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Msolo Umkune.

MR DE KLERK: Was he also staying in the Ndaleni area?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Yes, he did.

MR DE KLERK: While we're on that point, when this incident took place, what was the situation in the Richmond/Ndaleni area with regard to violence particularly?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: The situation was very bad at that time, because an IFP member was by that time not even able to go to town.

MR DE KLERK: Yes?

MR LAX: Sorry, you say
"An IFP member was not able to go to town"
Why couldn't they go to town, what was the issues, what was the problem?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: They would be stopped by ANC members, or ANC supporters.

MR DE KLERK: Yes, and what would have happened if they were stopped?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: The only thing that happened was that they were killed.

MR DE KLERK: During that time were any IFP members killed that you know of?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I know quit a lot.

MR DE KLERK: What was your position in the community, Mr Mtolo?  What was your job, and did you have any particular ...

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Sorry?

MR DE KLERK: What was your position in the community at that stage?  What sort of job did you do, and did you have a specific office, were you an office-bearer of the IFP or what?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: When this situation started, I was working for the Chief at Ndaleni.  That is when the ANC was formed in the area.

MR DE KLERK: For which Chief were you working?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Chief Majozi.

MR DE KLERK: And what capacity, what were you doing?  Were you a tribal policeman or what?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I knew Majozi closely when the violence started and then I became an Induna.  I became an Induna and I was in charge of IFP followers in the area.

MR LAX: Were you an Induna jeSiswe?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I would not say so, I would say I was an Induna in charge of the IFP youth.

MR DE KLERK: Can you please now explain to the Commission what happened on the 12th of September 1992, when the taxi was stopped?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Yes, I can explain that.

MR DE KLERK: Proceed.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I knew the taxi as well as its driver.  When we met him on the way, I said: "This is the kombi that had carried the attackers who had attacked my house". ...(intervention)

MR DE KLERK: Before we proceed, who was together with you on that day?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I was with four boys as well as a certain Mr Phoswa.

MR DE KLERK: Can you remember the names, can you give the Commission the names of the people that were with you?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Yes.

MR DE KLERK: Proceed.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: It was Betjana Phoswa, Khumbulani Sithole, Mpumuza Dlamini.

MR LAX: Just repeat those names for me please, I didn't catch all of them. - just slowly.  You said Betjana Phoswa ...?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Betjana Phoswa, Khumbulani Sithole, Mpumuza Dlamini.

MR LAX: And the fourth one?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I was the fourth one, Elias Kesla Mtolo.

MR DE KLERK: Were you in a vehicle or were you on foot?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: We were travelling in a vehicle.

MR DE KLERK: What happened then?  You were now travelling in a vehicle and you saw a kombi that you knew.

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: The taxi was ferrying passengers and I recognised it as the same taxi which had carried people who had attacked my home.  I was driving the car.  I then turned and followed that taxi.

MR DE KLERK: Just explain to the Committee, you say that you saw this taxi and you recognised it as a taxi involved in an attack on you.  Can you just explain that attack, what happened and how did you identify this taxi, how did you know that it was that one?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: Please repeat the question.

MR DE KLERK: I will just repeat it.  Just quickly explain to the Commission, you say that you identified this taxi as a taxi being used in an attack on you.  When did this attack take place and where was it and what happened?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I know that taxi as well as the person who drives it.  I was at home and the taxi came and some people alighted from the taxi.  They were carrying guns.  They approached my home and when they arrived I was already waiting for them because I also had a firearm of my own.

MR DE KLERK: Yes, and what happened?

ELIAS KESLA MTOLO: I told my wife and the children to lock themselves inside the house.  I stood at the gate and just hid behind the gate and when they were close to me I then emerged from where I was hiding and started shooting, firing at them.  One person was shot and the rest fled into the fields.  The one person was killed and one other was injured in that incident.

MR DE KLERK: And how long prior to now stopping this taxi on the 12th of September 1992, did this attack take place on your house?