Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-19

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] reached?

MR STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, if I'm not mistaken, the applicant number 4 will be called by my learned friend this morning.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any objection to taking the oath - sorry, is that working, can you hear?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Yes, I can.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any objection to taking the oath?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: What are you full names?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Stanley Michael Tshoane.

CHAIRPERSON: We are now continuing with this hearing, it is the 19th of August.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Tshoane, you have an affidavit in front of you which is also before the Committee.  Do you confirm that the affidavit which is before the Committee was made by yourself and you abide by its contents?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct Sir.

MR MALAN: Just before you proceed, can we just have the correct spelling?  Is it Tso or Tsho?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Tshoane.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Tshoane, have a look at page 2 of your affidavit - especially paragraph 5 Mr Chairman ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, has he confirmed the affidavit?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, he confirmed it.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: It is already confirmed.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Tshoane, can you have a look at paragraph 5 and especially line number 2 of your affidavit indicates that you were part of the unit that attacked Wesselsbron Supermarket.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And that you have read the affidavit of comrade Bhani, it has been read to you?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And that you understand it and you confirm it inasfar as it relates to the part that you took in the Wesselsbron incident?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Yes, I do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, Mr Tshoane, the evidence before the Committee so far regarding your part is that you were the owner of the car that was used in the operation in Wesselsbron and that you were the driver, do you confirm that?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you also confirm that on the day in question you were not armed yourself, except that you were a driver?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct, I was not armed.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, what I want is that you tell the Committee the part you took, starting from Welkom, when did you become aware of this operation, starting when you left Welkom.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: I started to know about this mission when we left Welkom.  We were four, that is myself, Themba Ngesi, Zuko and Sibanda.  We left at half past seven to Wesselsbron.  When we arrived, Mr Khotle told me that we should meet Mr Bhani in Wesselsbron who would explain to us about the operation.
	When we arrived we met Mr Bhani in Wesselsbron.  He said to me I should drive the car and take all those who were taking part to town.  I did that, I took my fellow comrades to town in Wesselsbron.  When we arrived I stopped the car in front of the supermarket and they entered the supermarket, then they accomplished the mission.

MR MBANDAZAYO: No, were you present when Bhani was briefing the comrades about the operation?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct, I was present.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee what he said?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Mr Bhani said to those who were responsible that he made reconnaissance about the place and then how the plan should be accomplished and then he asked as to whether they would have problems and they said no, because they know the place.  Then we left to that particular place.

CHAIRPERSON: Well how was the plan to be accomplished?  That is what you were asked to tell us.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: They were supposed to enter there and shoot those who oppressed us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Tshoane, can you - let me put it this way, what role did he give each of you, that is Bhani, that you are going to do this, this one is going to do this and that, the other one is going to do that, can you tell the Committee in that manner?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: He informed the colleagues about what should be done, then he said: "Ngesi should enter the supermarket and shoot.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, what was the role going to be played by Zuko?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Zuko must also enter and shoot.

MR MBANDAZAYO: What was the role going to be played by Sibanda?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Spanda was just next to the door, he did not enter inside.  He was supposed to look for any people who would interfere with the plan.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now can you tell the Committee what happened after they came out of the supermarket?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: After they left the supermarket they entered into the car and then we drove to the location.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, what did you do on your arrival at the location?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: When we arrived in the township I left them there, myself and Sibanda went to Tabong, that is Welkom.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what happened to the weapons?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: We left the weapons in Wesselsbron.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now do you know a person by the name of Moses?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Moses?  Yes, I do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Was he your friend?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you hear his testimony in court, when he testified in court regarding this incident?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Yes, I did.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Let me maybe remind you that he told the court that he was approached by Sibanda and he took Sibanda to you regarding transport.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And also that your refused on the first occasion.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: Yes, I did.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee, were you told what was the purpose of them wanting your transport?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: When they wanted transport they - I had a certain duty to do.  When he explained that he was sent by Mr Khotle, that is then that I agreed.  I remember that Mr Khotle said there will be a parcel which I was supposed to deliver to him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: It is said that Moses told the court that Sibanda, if I'm not mistaken according to the court Jugement, Sibanda told you that there is a robbery which is going to take place at Wesselsbron.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: No, he did not tell me that.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And also that Moses told the court that after the incident at Wesselsbron, you told him about that but when you were still narrating what actually took place some people came and you stopped.

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: No, I don't know that.  Maybe it is a story which has been fabricated by the police and him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is there anything you want to add to your testimony to the Committee, you want to say in addition to what you have told the Committee?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: What I want to explain before this Committee is that oppressors are the ones who have organised those people, that those who are going to testify in court should testify in the way they did.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Tshoane, putting aside what happened in court, I'm saying regarding this incident at Wesselsbron, of you taking part in what happened, is there anything you want to add or you want to say to the Committee?

STANLEY MICHAEL TSHOANE: It was supposed that this work should be accomplished in whatever way, the plan which was used by those who were oppressed ...[intervention]

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Tshoane, without deferring to what we are saying, let me lead you this way.  You know that people died as a result of this incident, is there anything you want to say regarding that?