Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

MR DLAMINI: Is it at Tabong?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's in Tabong.

MR DLAMINI: And the other person Molayi?

WITNESS:   There was a bank called Standard but it's now - it's been turned into police offices.  He is working at those offices.  Every time when I go to court I see him getting out of  that building.  I think it's a police building now.  It was previously used as Standard Bank.

MR DLAMINI: My last question before I hand you over to the Chairman.  How is Pule now?  Is he improving?  You mentioned that he's mentally disturbed.  How is he?  Is he okay?  Is he getting stable?

WITNESS:   There is one thing that really encourages me.  As you see me now I'm a divorcee.  I pity Pule's wife because she's very young and she's beautiful and she's got status.  I keep on asking myself, is God listening to us when we pray because this woman is at home and she's taking care of Pule.  She sees to it that Pule gets shoes and he gets food.  You know, if men are not working, women don't like them but I must tell you Pule's under good care of his wife.

MR DLAMINI: I think they are also blessed to have a supportive mother like yourself.  Thank you very much for all the information that you have given us.  I'm comfortable that from this information our investigating unit will be able to try and trace the perpetrators.  I will now hand over to the Chairman.

WITNESS:   I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other thing?  Yes, Professor Magwaza?

PROF MAGWAZA: Mrs Mofokeng, I think I would like to follow up just quickly on what Mr Dlamini was saying that I think it's important for us to get the complete picture about the condition of Pule.  From what you said I got the feeling that there are times when he's better and there are times when he gets worse because you talked about the attacks.  You said when he has these attacks.  So are you saying that there're times when he's better and there're times when he's bad?

WITNESS:   I  am talking the truth.  That is even written in document.  Every time he is mentally disturbed we don't want to stay with him.  We want him to be out of our sight to go to the doctor.  But there is time when he's just find and you enjoy speaking to him.  I'll go to his house every time to visit him.  He is fond of sleeping.  He's always in bed.

PROF MAGWAZA: When he gets worse what does he do?  What does he actually do when he has these attacks?

WITNESS:   He doesn't want to see women.  He doesn't want to see them at all and he will break everything.  When he is disturbed he is troublesome and I was asking myself, "I'm getting old.  If I don't get it right, will God really give me strength to grab him, fasten him, take him to the doctor?" because I'm the only one who does it.  He doesn't want to see anybody.  We know him.  We see the signs as he is going to get his attacks.

PROF MAGWAZA: Is he taking tablets all the time?

WITNESS:   The doctors come to Medicine Forum every month and we pay the injection fee, that is R10,00 and the doctors requested me to take care of him.  They said if we don't take care of him, he's going to be insane like other people outside.  You know, lucky enough we are taking care of his.  He's all right.

PROF MAGWAZA: I did notice that you wanted some assistance regarding payment for medical treatment and I would like to say to you that we have already been speaking to the Department of Health in this province.  We will try to link you up with the Department of Health to see how they can help.  Lastly, I think our Chairperson also referred to that because what has impressed me very well  /about

PROF MAGWAZA: about you is the faith you have in God.  I think every person who comes here has some strength.  So I was very impressed by the faith in God and being thankful that your son is alive so he can still see the bleakly positive aspects of your life and I think it's very important for all of us.  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   I also thank you, Ma'am.  I believe in God because the people who saw my son at provincial hospital, they don't believe it today if I tell him that he is alive.  They think he passed away.  They want to see him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Alina.  You are a wonderful person.  What has impressed me is about your memory.  When you were telling your story I could see that you were remembering most of the things which you have given in your statement and that was wonderful indeed.  You are very dynamic.  And you have just said now that you believe in God.  The God you worship is a God of miracles.  If you believe that your son will be cured, I'm definitely sure as the sun rises from the east and sets in the west, if you believe, that the almighty God is going to help you through your faith.  We have heard this story and again it is very depressing to find that most of the things which have happened here, they have happened through the hands of the police.  I mean, police are the people who should be protecting people, protecting people's lives.  When we grew up, when you saw a police, you saw a friend.  When you saw a police, you saw security.  But during the time of the apartheid regime, police became enemies of the people and they became murderers of the people.  I want to say what I have said again that people like Hugo have  /been

CHAIRPERSON: been mentioned many a times here and I would hold that his conscience would touch him so that before he's subpoenaed by the Commissioner he comes forward and says why he was involved in the murder of so many people with his colleagues.  We want to thank you very much for your courage and we want to thank your daughter-in-law for the support which she is giving to your son.  It is true indeed that when the husband is not working and has become an invalid, there's a temptation for the wives to neglect their husband.  They forget the vows which they made that till death sets them apart.  So we want to congratulate you and we want to say that we will give you all the moral support we can do and also try to see if the things we've noted here cannot be treated positively by those we'll refer them to.  Thank you again.

WITNESS:   I think you, Sir.