Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-26

MR TENGE: I'm Wim Trengrove and I act for Bishop Verryn.
 Mr Mono, I'd like to clarify just one aspect of your evidence, and that is the reason why you were beaten up.  You told us that the people who beat you up asked you why you had allowed the white priest to sleep with you, is that correct?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, that is correct.

MR TRENGROVE: I understand that to mean that they accused you of willing participation in sexual activity with the priest, is my understanding correct?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, because they asked me why I accepted sleeping with the white man.

MR TRENGROVE: The accusation against you was that you willingly participated in that activity?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I don't understand your question clearly, please repeat your question, sir.

MR TRENGROVE: They didn't say that you'd been raped against your will, they said that you willingly participated in sexually activity with the priest?

BAREND THABISO MONO: They did not explain that, they asked me why I slept with a white man.

CHAIRPERSON: He's saying you were assaulted because you willingly slept with a white priest, do you now understand? - they were accusing him for that.

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, that's correct.

MR TRENGROVE: Did you admit the accusation at the outset, or only after they'd beaten you up?

BAREND THABISO MONO: During the assault I agreed.

MR TRENGROVE: Only because they assaulted you?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, there was no way out because, after accepting, Jerry Richardson ordered them to stop with the assault, he said we were not going to be assaulted any further.

MR TRENGROVE: The purpose of the assault was to force you to make that admission.

BAREND THABISO MONO: I would say so because after accepting we were left.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any other?  Yes?

MR KADES: Mr Commissioner, Norman Kades on behalf of the Asvat family.
 Did you know the late Doctor Abu-Baker Asvat, had you ever seen him or had any dealings with him?

BAREND THABISO MONO: No, we've never met him.

MR KADES: During the period that you stayed or remained on at the Mandela household after the 29th of December, did an Indian man ever come to the house that you saw?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I do not remember, I do not remember an Indian man coming to the house.

MR KADES: Thank you, Mr ... [indistinct]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR RICHARD: Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Identify yourself.

MR RICHARD: A J Richard, representing Mr Jerry Richardson.
 Mr Mono, when Mr Richardson and the others came to the Manse, did you have any choice as to whether you would go with them or not?  Could you have refused?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I did not have any choice.

MR RICHARD: Now, for how many days were you at the Mandela house before Stompie disappeared, can you remember?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I do not remember exactly but it might be between three and four days. I do not specifically remember how many days before Stompie's disappearance.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  Now during the period that you were at the house, were any other people brought to the house and assaulted to your knowledge, besides the four of you?

BAREND THABISO MONO: No other persons were brought to the house to be assaulted, sir.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  And then when it comes to the Lerothodi Ikaneng incident, what Mr Richardson's version is is that he handed you the shear, but you were too scared to use it, and he took it back from you, is that correct?  He handed the hedge clipper, the shears, the half of it, to you, but you were too slow, so he took it back.

BAREND THABISO MONO: I think that he is lying because he gave that to Isaac, and Isaac tried to do that, he told Slash to take it from Slash - I didn't take that.

MR RICHARD: Thank you, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Chairman, the witness has indicated to me that he would like to have two minutes to address the Commission himself, would that be permissible?

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the risk.

MR MAKANJEE: Thank you, Mr Chair.

BAREND THABISO MONO: I just want to know why all these things happened to me, I want these people to give us explanations.  I believe when there are allegations you have to investigate first to find the depth of those allegations. I do not believe that what they did to us was a justified action to take on that day.
 I am requesting them to explain to us why they did that to the four of us. I'm even requesting from Xoliswa Falati to explain why she only did this to the four of us.

CHAIRPERSON: We will try to get answers to those questions, but I want to say to you we thank you for your evidence. Thank you.
 Because of this air-conditioning, which is doing wonderful things, our papers are rustling, and it is not good for the radio transmission, so if you could please - you people there, we here and you there, if you could anchor your papers and just ensure that they don't rustle more than usual.
Bishop Paul Verryn?  Bishop Paul, we welcome you, and thank you very much for your generosity in being able to come when you should have been heard yesterday.  You are aware that we - I think this is very important and we've got to find the time so that everybody has a fair hearing, and we are aware too of the anguish through which you have had to pass over so many years and, in a way, although we're still going to hear your testimony, it is wonderful that you have been vindicated.   And we give thanks to God for the ministry that you carried out - some of the witnesses here have spoken about it - and so, welcome.  Will you please stand so that - ?
 Yasmin Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell us your full names for the record, please?

PAUL VERRYN: Paul Verryn.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

PAUL VERRYN: (sworn in)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR TRENGROVE: ... [Inaudible] Before I commence leading the witness, I wonder if I might ask the Commission for a direction on the ambit of the evidence which you wish to hear from him.  I propose, subject to your direction, to lead him on a very narrow issue, and that is if he ever engaged in any sexual activity with Katiza Cebekhulu and the four people who were abducted.
 That issue in itself seems to us to be of only peripheral relevance to your enquiry. It was at one time relevant when the abductors put up as an excuse for their abduction, a belief that the witness had engaged in sexual activity with those five people.  Even that relevance seems to us to have disappeared, or at least to have been substantially diluted, because those who made the allegations have all retracted them.  But the witness nonetheless wishes to have an opportunity to deal with that issue. 
   There are broader issues, however, you might enquire - he might be asked whether he'd ever molested anybody else, whether he'd ever engaged in sexual activity with any other people.  He might be asked about his sexual orientation. He's willing to give that evidence if it were relevant and helpful to your enquiry at all.  It seems to us that those broader issues are utterly irrelevant, and, subject to your direction, we don't propose to lead him on it.

CHAIRPERSON: Hanif?

MR VALLY: Thank you, Archbishop.  Archbishop, we only want to get Reverend Paul Verryn's evidence insofar as it relates to the incidents leading up to the abduction and assault of the four youths. The other issues are of total irrelevance to us.

CHAIRPERSON: That is what I said.

MR TRENGROVE: As it pleases the Commission, I'll lead the evidence then only on the narrow issue.
 Bishop Verryn, you're the Methodist Bishop for the South- Western Districts, is that correct?

PAUL VERRYN: It's now called the Central District, yes.

MR TRENGROVE: Central District. Since when have you held that position?

MR TRENGROVE: Since the 1st of June 1997.

MR TRENGROVE: What position in the Church did you hold in December 1988?