Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

J P NEL: Commandant du Plessis gave the instructions and Major Smit knew where we were. And because we did not return the day we were supposed to return because the bomb was supposed to be detonated that morning and we only returned the next morning. That is why he shouted "Where you now coming from?"

CHAIRPERSON: And what was your answer?

J P NEL: I didn't answer him.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not think that you must explain yourself?

J P NEL: I only explained to him that we had problems. That is all I said we had problems and I didn't say anything else.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Your behaviour lead to the fact that you and all the other applicants or let me put it this way that most of the accused in the High Court was arrested. Is that not correct?

J P NEL: Please repeat the question?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Your behaviour lead to the fact that most of your colleagues were arrested at the shooting range. Because they would never had been there. They would have been at the game farm. But because you stayed away they fled to the shooting range.

J P NEL: Their decision making I cannot justify that. I do not know why they took that decision. Afterwards I found out they said that they took the decision to go to the shooting range because we arrived there late.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And because they were scared you were arrested?

J P NEL: That is correct. That is what I heard Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And at the shooting range did the men ask A B Fourie can't they rather visit their wives. Is that correct?

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you decided to go back to the Hartebeespoort dam?

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: No further questions under those circumstances.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: .

MR MOTLAUNG: I've got no questions Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MOTLAUNG

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  Mr Nel after your mission you returned to the game farm. Is that correct?

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And you did not really report back to anybody about what you have done or whether the mission was successful or not?

J P NEL: No Commandant du Plessis who was there and he gave me the instructions was not there so I couldn't report back to him. And Major Smit shouted it out in the hall so I believe at that stage that everybody knew what was going on.

MR PRIOR: But you were grown-ups. Wasn't it a question of the fact that the major treated you as a teacher would treat
pupils? You were a grown man you were a soldier and you had to go and kill people and you realised that you were going to kill people. Is that correct?

J P NEL: In a war situation yes.

MR PRIOR: Forget the war. You took two pipe bombs and you detonated them in Bloed Street in Pretoria. This was close to a place where people were sitting drinking. Is that not true? And then you return and this man says to you where the hell have you been. And because the fact that you are not around we thought you were arrested and you don't say anything.

J P NEL: I explained to him that we had a problem.

MR PRIOR: What did you say what was the problem?

J P NEL: Because we couldn't place the bomb that morning because of the police.

MR PRIOR: Did you explain it to him the way you testifying now?

J P NEL: Because he wasn't my commanding officer I didn't.

MR PRIOR: You only said you had a problem?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And he accepted it like that.

J P NEL: Yes he did. And just to put a thing right. It wasn't two bombs it was only one.

MR PRIOR: In Bloed Street what did you see when you were standing around there? Was there a shop there, was there a building there? Was there some or other structure?

J P NEL: We saw the building and there were black people moving around there.

MR PRIOR: And where was this bomb actually planted?

J P NEL: On the side of the road on 7th Street, at the side of the building.

MR PRIOR: In other words the people inside did not see what was going on outside?

J P NEL: Not as far as I can imagine.

MR PRIOR: How many people were inside this building?

J P NEL: I cannot say how many were inside.

MR PRIOR: Was it your intent to kill all those people in that building?

J P NEL: It was our intention to create a psychosis of fear so that the elections would be stopped because of that and because there were black people around the building we thought that it had the same effect as if we would have placed it at the taxi rank. Because the majority of ANC members according to us were black. And I saw the black people and I placed the bomb there and we thought it would have the same effect as at the taxi rank.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel before we continue. When you signed these documents did you read the documents? Are you happy that they are correct?

J P NEL: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Look at page 169 paragraph 28. That is your application?

J P NEL: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: The last two sentences would you please read it.
MR NEL
	"Piet Steyn ignited the pipe bomb's fuse and he threw it out of the vehicle's door and we left immediately."

CHAIRPERSON: That is not placed?

J P NEL: Well we threw it out. He detonated it. To me it is the same thing.

CHAIRPERSON: No Mr Nel it doesn't sound right to me and I want to give you an opportunity to explain this. You testified all the time now about how the pipe bomb was planted next to a shop where there were people, black people.

J P NEL: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And it was ignited and then you left?

J P NEL: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: It doesn't sound to me as if you lit it in the car and then threw it out of the window.

J P NEL: Chairperson in Bloed Street we moved up in Bloed Street and we turned right into 7th Street and right in front of this building we stopped. Steyn ignited the bomb, he opened the door and threw it out onto the side-walk and from there we went.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you can explain?

J P NEL: That is how it happened Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: The word "planted" was never really used by the witness. My learned colleague, Mr Prior used the word plant.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo whether we speak about plant or put down or whatever. It is very different from throwing something out of the window of a car that is what I am saying.

MR PRINSLOO: The witness confirmed to what was said in his application. Mr Prior said to him he planted the bomb and it is very loose terminology the way he puts it in any case.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Prinsloo I heard it very clearly that after Mr Prior's question I did put the question that way but then the witness did say the bomb was planted or placed on the side of the pavement.

MR PRINSLOO: This would be splitting hairs to say that because in his statement it is quite evident that where the bomb came to be it might have been placed there.

MR PRIOR: Whatever can you remember clearly now that the bomb was then thrown out of the car?

J P NEL: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: It is not a question of somebody getting out of the car, walked to the building and there next to the structure there placed the bomb?

J P NEL: No Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: It was never your intention?

J P NEL: No Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: It was not your intention to create this impression?

J P NEL: No it wasn't.

MR PRIOR: Mr Nel you received instruction from Mr du Plessis?

J P NEL: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: To place this bomb at a taxi rank and that morning you went to Bloed Street where there was a taxi rank. Why didn't you just plant that bomb that morning? Why was it necessary to drive away?

J P NEL: Chairperson as I have already said when we arrived there, there was so many police and policing that we decided not to place the bomb there. We didn't want to create further problems and we expected to be arrested or something like that might have happened.

MR PRIOR: That is why you put forged registration plates on your car. You were scared of being arrested?