Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Now, by whom was it recorded and when was it recorded, those numbers?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That was recorded by Mr Walus, it is his handwriting, it is quite clearly so and it was recorded after I went to fetch the list which was laying on a table in the study in our home, together with a lot of other documentation.  After I had told Mr Walus that I had identified Mr Hani as the ideal target and that we must now go ahead with the execution of our task.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, in your evidence the day before yesterday, when we made reference to the list which was in typed form in the court record, which does not have the same appearance as it have now before the Commission, it didn't have the handwritten part on it, is that what you explained?
	What is the reason for recording the numbers alongside the names?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: The numbers were recorded Mr Chairman, because we decided to record them in priority in respect of their enmity towards the cause of the Right and particularly the Conservative Party.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, on the list again appears on the second page which is the full script of it is not very visible due to the condition of the photostat at our disposal ...

JUDGE WILSON: Could you tell me where the other list is?

MR PRINSLOO: May I just get hold of the court record Mr Chairman?  I think it is in the bundle as well.
	On the second page appears Mr Derby-Lewis, the words BM and then PWY, did you record that there?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No, I didn't Mr Chairman.  It must have been recorded after I handed Mr Walus the list, Kuba.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, is it correct that you saw the second applicant, Mr Walus, on the 6th of April?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman, when I handed him the firearm.

MR PRINSLOO: And did you see him subsequent to that?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I did Mr Chairman, I saw him on the following day, the following evening, the 7th of February.

MR PRINSLOO: You mean April.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Sorry, April Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: For what purpose did you see him on that date, 7th of April?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I saw him because I had undertaken to endeavour to obtain the subsonic ammunition necessary for use in this firearm fitted with the silencer.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, did you give Mr Walus any instructions with regard to the assassination of Mr Hani?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, the only instruction I gave him was that he must carry out the execution.  The detail of the arrangement he was to do himself.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, on the 12th of April 1993, that was subsequent to the arrest of Mr Walus, did you have occasion to see Mr Arthur Kemp?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I did Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And was this at your residence?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: This was at my residence, Mr Chairman, yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know why he came to your residence, at whose instance?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, he came at the invitation of my wife because she and he were busy with a specific business project and he was going to bring some information which was going to be put onto the computer with relation to that business transaction of theirs.

MR PRINSLOO: And was there any mention made by yourself or anyone with regard to the list?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mention was made by Mr Arthur Kemp himself Mr Chairman, who during the course of my conversation, expressed his concern that the list referred to in the Beeld of that morning, could possibly be referring to the list which he, Arthur Kemp, drew up.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, you were arrested on the 17th of April and at the time of your arrest, you made a statement at the police station which is contained in bundle E, page 4, Mr Chairman, and 5.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And in that document and the last paragraph, it is stated "I place on record herewith that I do not wish to make any statement" and that was done in pursuance of a warning you received from Captain Deetliefs in terms of Judges' Rules, is that correct?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, subsequent to making this statement, you were placed in detention in the Benoni police cells, is that correct?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, whilst you were in detention at the Benoni police station, you were removed from the police cells for the purpose of being present when certain information was extracted from a computer which was your property?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No, Mr Chairman, not quite correct.  There were two computers involved because both my wife and I had computers and both of those computers were present and information was extracted from both of them.

MR PRINSLOO: When were you taken out of the cells, can you recall or can you refresh your memory from what is before the Commission, it is an extract from an occurrence book which was obtained from the records of the Police, Mr Chairman, page 6?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Well Mr Chairman, this record indicates that I was arrested on the 17th of April by Colonel Human and another 20 odd people.  It also indicates that the arrest was effected at my residence in Krugersdorp.  It indicates further that at 00H35 on the 18th of April, that was 35 minutes past midnight, I was detained by Sergeant Slingerland in the cells at Benoni police station.
	It indicates further that at 01H50 I was booked out for an investigation by one Inspector Els, whom I don't recall, but it could have been somebody who is connected with the computer function.
	It says further that I was then at 04H45 I was brought back to the cells.

CHAIRPERSON: What date was that?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That was on the 18th of the 4th Mr Chairman.  It indicates further that on the 18th of the 4th at 08H15, I was once again booked out by Colonel Human.  It indicates further on the 18th of April, at 11H50, I was placed back in the cells by a Sergeant Breedt.  It indicates that on the 18th of April at 18H00 I was once again booked out for investigation by Sergeant Slingerland.
	It indicates that on the 18th of April 1993, at 13H30 I was booked back into the cells by Sergeant Slingerland.  It indicates that on the 18th of the 4th, at 23H26 ...

MR PRINSLOO: Will you just pause there Mr Derby-Lewis.  You were taken out of the cells, was that for the purpose to be present at the time when they extracted the information from these computers?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.  The SAP people doing it, insisted that I be present at all times when they worked on the computers and I had to certify as they took information off, that the discs that they had used, were contained in a certain container and I actually had to sign that container.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, at that stage, were you handcuffed and your legs were also (indistinct)

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, I was in both handcuffs and in foot irons, leg irons.

MR PRINSLOO: And without going into detail of the time, were you present there for a considerable time?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Nearly day and night?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was and I can remember being very tired as a result.

JUDGE WILSON: Have you had a chance of looking at the original Mr Derby-Lewis?  I ask this because I see entry number 8 says you were taken out, or you read it as if you were taken out at 18H00?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: Entry number 9 says you were brought back at 13H30?  Is it?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: 13H30, that is quite right, was that 18H30 maybe?  It is 13H30 Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: I wonder if it was 8, 13H00 not 18H00?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Oh, sorry I stand corrected Mr Chairman, it is actually 13H00, I have such a bad copy here that it actually looked like 18H00.

JUDGE WILSON: Thank you.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.