Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: Again thank you very much for coming in and telling us your story today.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: Before you tell us your story can you please stand and take the oath.

NTHOMBIKANI NGWENYA: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: Mrs Ngwenya, you live at the KwaMphumuza location, which is near Phayepini, and you have - as I have said you have come to tell us about the death of your husband, Moses Ngwenya on the 31st of December 1988.  You've said in your statement that your husband was a policeman, that he was a member of the KwaZulu Police.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER: And that he was shot.

WITNESS:   Yes, he was shot.

MR LYSTER: Tell us what you know about your husband's death please.

WITNESS:   Just where it started, it started in 1985.  In 1985 my son died.  I found my son and I also found the place where he died.  When I left - and then when I came back I found my house had been broken down.  Before end of the year my son died as well.  He was stabbed.  Before I could bury my son police from Edendale came and they said this boy, my son, is the one who is responsible in burning someone else's house, and my mother-in-law said, "It's not true because we are the ones who are losing our kids.  This kid is the second one to die."  His father went to the hospital to look for him, and we realised that his father is not coming back home.  And then one guy came and told us that, "Your husband is now not here and I don't think he is going to come because people have took him."  And then they found him next to the river and he was stabbed.  They took him to the hospital and he was talking at that time.  When his father came from the hospital he said, "Oh, he'll be okay, because when I left the hospital "he could speak," but when I went to hospital he was now dead.  And my house was broken in, and my other son was stabbed when he was coming from work.   And that was the time before I moved from Phumushe.  I persevered all this, and then at the end one day in my house I heard a loud noise.  It was like a stone breaking through the window. And my children were asleep, and my husband said I must go hide under the bed.  And I said to him, "No, I won't, because if I have to die today I will die."  We ran out, and we didn't go to neighbours to seek for help, we went to the mountains and we slept there.  I went to a remote area.  That's where I am staying now at this moment.  That's where we hidden ourselves.  And my mother-in-law said to me I must come back, I mustn't run away with my husband and the children.  It's better that only my husband dies, and then we must be saved.  Then we went to my mother-in-law's place.  In 1987, after I lost two of my sons - in 1987 when I arrived at that place at my mother-in-law's place usually policemen used to come ever there, asking for my husband, and I used to tell them I don't know where my husband was because he had run away from the police.  One day soldiers came by car, and the house that I was staying at before was burned, because policemen used to come there and search the house and kick everything and break things, and then I was now staying with my mother-in-law.  Then soldiers came one day and they said they were looking for guns.  They said we must give them the guns and we told them we don't know anything about guns.  And they said guns are buried with my son.  And then cars, police cars came to my house and they went to where we buried my son.  And they brought a dog as well, and the dog couldn't find anything, and one white man said we must go back because there's just nothing.  In December 1988 we were from town.  I just came there over the weekend.  My husband just came there to spend a weekend because he was now on the run.  He then said he is going to visit a friend.  He saw people, a mob of people coming, and the policemen, and one policeman shot him.  And they said he raised his hand and the police continued shooting him.  And the police kept on shooting him until he was dead.  They said he continued shooting him even after he was dead.  And then one person came and said, "Did you hear that your husband has been shot?"   And I said, "No," and I went there and I found him dead.  This is how it ended.  After that, before the funeral - at the funeral the police were many.  They came by different cars.  And then after the funeral it was quiet, nothing happened.

MR LYSTER: Do you recall which police shot your husband?  Where were they from, and exactly where was this?

WITNESS:   I think it was the Flying Squad.

MR LYSTER: In what area?

WITNESS:   Mphumuza area.  They said one guy pointed at him.  I don't know because I wasn't there.

MR LYSTER: Was there any sort of case or inquest, or any case of any sort that took place in a court relating to the death of your husband?

WITNESS:   No, there was no case.  I was never called.

MR LYSTER: Do you have your husband's death certificate?

WITNESS:  Yes, I do have it.

MR LYSTER: On which he died of bullet wounds?

WITNESS:   No, it doesn't say anything.

MR LYSTER: Do you have any documents of any sort that will give us any clue as to why and how and at whose hand his death took place?  Do you have anything at all that you can give us, at home or anywhere else?  Did you make a statement to anybody?

WITNESS:   I never made any statements to anyone.  I don't have anything.  The only document I have is the death certificate, which doesn't explain.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Ngwenya, you have told us many things today which you didn't put down in your statement, and we would perhaps like to speak to you again at another stage to get details about - particularly about the death of your sons.  Do you know how they - you told us how they died.  Do you know who killed them, or why they died?  Was it in - you said ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   I don't know who killed them ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 4) ... because even police themselves knew about this.  They used to come, they used to ask guns from us, and they used to take my husband as well.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Ngwenya, we will certainly try and get to the bottom of what happened, why and who killed your husband, why he died, and it may be necessary to talk to you again to get further details about that.  At the moment how are you supporting yourself?  Are you working?  Do you have children that are working?

WITNESS:   I am not very well, I am very ill, and my kids are still at school.  And the elder son is also sick because he was shot, and my kids are still young.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... ask my fellow Commissioners and committee members if they have any questions they wish to ask.

KHOZA MGOJO: Your husband died in December 1988, and you just said to us after a while the lawyer, Sisibe, said to you there's nothing that we could do because it was already late.  When was this?

WITNESS:   I went to him when I started working.  I just can't remember the year.  It was - I think it was 1995.

KHOZA MGOJO: Before this time you never attempted to seek help to lawyers?

WITNESS:   No.  That's because I wasn't working, I was staying at home, so I didn't have money to pay for lawyers.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you know anything about Lawyers for Human Rights, because those lawyers are free?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't know anything about them.

KHOZA MGOJO: One last thing that I would like to ask you is that your husband was a police, and he was killed by police.  Why?  What was going on between these policemen, because I just can't understand here because he was a police and being killed by other police?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  I really don't know, because what I am sure of is that he was killed by police.  At Plessislaer it was the KwaZulu Police head office.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you go there and make a statement?