Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-07

MR NGUBANE: Mr Luthuli, starting from the questions arising from the panel members, you indicated that there are Caprivians who are still in operation, is that correct?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And most of them are known to you and you have their particulars, is that correct?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Are you prepared to cooperate with anyone who wants to track them down, with an aim of rehabilitating them, or punishing them?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, I am prepared to assist.

MR NGUBANE: Coming to the Claremont incident, did you have a hit list of certain people at Claremont that had to be killed?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Were those, was Malan Nicholas Mkhize amongst those?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And the people that killed him, were they directed by you or did they conspire with you at any stage?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: No, they did not conspire, but as I have indicated that BSI and the Caprivians were just one thing.
	And therefore that is how I knew about this because the person who was in charge of the operation, was Captain Kanyele who was in charge of BSI in KwaMashu.

MR NGUBANE: Do you know a gentleman by the name of Msisi Hlope?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: I know him very well.

MR NGUBANE: Is it correct that he is one and the same gentleman that assisted you in the murder of Mr Zazi Khuzwayo?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, I know.

MR NGUBANE: Did you at any stage, make enquiries to Msisi Hlope regarding Mr Mulna Nicholas Mkhize, enquiries such as whether Mr Mkhize has a firearm or not?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And were those enquiries made with a view of attacking Mr Mulna Nicholas Mkhize?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Okay.  And the gentleman known as Qashana Sithole of Claremont, was he also in the hit list?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Was he also killed by the Caprivians?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: He was killed by BSI.

MR NGUBANE: And Orbit Mtembu of Claremont, was he also attacked by the Caprivians?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: He was attacked by BSI.

MR NGUBANE: Were all these acts as a result of the orders of Inkatha?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: You referred to the attempted murder of Pam Tsabalala.  Is it correct that shortly after that attempted murder, she was killed?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Was it a sequel of that attempted murder?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Did you participate in her actual assassination?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, the BSI.

MR NGUBANE: Of the members of the hit list that you had in Claremont, did you actually pull a trigger or anyone of them, you  personally?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: No.

MR NGUBANE: Regarding the Planning Committee, I think there was a question from the panel regarding the Planning Committee, is it correct that when you realised that the Planning Committee had been infiltrated by the Boers, you realised at that stage that Inkatha was an organisation that was doomed to fail?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: That was way back round about 1986, 1987, is it correct?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And in spite of that, you continued to participate in these acts furthering the aims of Inkatha?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And you were getting paid after you had realised that Inkatha was doomed to fail?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: No further questions, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NGUBANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.  Mr  Falconer, do you have any questions that you would like to put?

MR FALCONER: No, Mr Chairman.

MR FALCONER: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Booyens, do you have any questions arising?

MR BOOYENS: No, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Stuart, I suppose you should have the right to re-examine if there is anything arising out of Mr Ngubane's questions relating to the Claremont issue, but only on that.

MR STUART: No Mr Chairperson, thank you.

MR STUART: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Luthuli, thank you, you may stand down now.

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