Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

MR STRYDOM: Did you at any stage, from the time you left kwaMadala Hostel till the time you returned to kwaMadala Hostel, see any police vehicles?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: When we were leaving Boipatong, on that bridge, small bridge which is a pedestrian bridge, there were soldiers cars.  I would say there were two or three.  They were standing there.  As we were coming closer and we were hurrying or in a hurry, they retreated towards, and stopped at a trade garage near the robots.

MR STRYDOM: After the group crossed Frikkie Meyer Boulevard on their way back, did you follow the same route when you went there?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR STRYDOM: Now whilst you were on that tarred section from the bridge you referred earlier on, towards the main entrance of kwaMadala Hostel, did you see any military vehicles or police vehicles?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I didn't see police on that day, I only saw the soldiers vehicles which I've just mentioned.

MR STRYDOM: I just want to get clarity, did you see soldiers' vehicles on your way back from the bridge to the main gate?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR STRYDOM: When you got back into the hostel, what happened?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We went back into the hostel and then we went to the stadium again.  That is where we were told that we should disperse into our houses before the police could come.

MR STRYDOM: What did you do?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We dispersed and I myself, as my house or my room was near the gate, I met Mr Mthembu.  I would say about five minutes after we arrived in the hostel the soldiers' vehicles which we saw at the robots arrived at the place.  If I remember well they did ask Mr Mthembu as to whether all the inmates of the hostel are inside the hostel.  I think Mr Mthembu said: "Yes, they are all in".
	They asked that because they said they saw a group of people which crossed the road and they thought maybe they were hiding on the grass behind the hostel.  They said we must be watchful because they will try and search for those people whom they thought hid behind the hostel.
	They said they will get something that will give them enough light to see all the place.  After that I went back to my room and slept.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is this Mthembu you're referring to?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Mr Moses Mthembu.

MR SIBANYONI: Who said you should disperse before the police have arrived, when you were at the stadium?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I think it is Mr Mkhize.

MR STRYDOM: At that stage, were you working at some firm?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, I was a worker.

MR STRYDOM: Did you go to your work the next day?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, I went to work.

MR STRYDOM: After the attack, did you see that goods that were taken in Boipatong were burnt inside kwaMadala Hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: All I can say about ...[indistinct] is that as we were coming back to the hostel people were carrying goods like TV's but when those goods were burnt or when the instruction was given that they should be burnt I wasn't present.

MR STRYDOM: We were handed an affidavit this morning, an unsigned document which purports to be an affidavit of Andries Nosenga ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, just before you get to that affidavit.
	Did anyone tell you that you must now leave Boipatong and return to the hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: At the time when the group was busy, the other group which went towards Slovo Park, which I thought it might have reached Slovo Park, we saw it coming towards us and we joined them and went back.

CHAIRPERSON: This group that had been to Slovo Park, how did you know that they were now leaving Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: When they were turning and coming back they were coming along the same street we were in, so as they were coming up we came and met them and then we agreed that we should go.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we to understand you as saying that you entered Boipatong from the one side and then you went through the houses stoning them, stabbing one man, chasing the others until you reached the other side of the township?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You may return to the affidavit.

MR STRYDOM: I just want to return to what happened inside Boipatong.  You said that you stabbed one person, you saw that other people also stabbed this person.  Apart from that incident where there was a specific attack on a person, did you see other attacks on persons?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, the attack continued.  Even if I wouldn't say I did see people doing anything because others went into the houses.  All that I saw was what was happening outside where we were running, following these other people who were retreating, where we were breaking the windows and there were some sound of rifles.

MR STRYDOM: You said there were sounds of rifles, did you hear many shots or just a few?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say rifles or guns were being fired.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see a person die in Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Referring to the one I stabbed, I wouldn't say I saw him dying, I would say that the others stabbed him as I was running after those who were running away, he might have died.

MR STRYDOM: But apart from this specific person, did you see any other person who was shot and died or who was stabbed and died in Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: One person that I think I've see who was stabbed was the one who was stabbed by Victor Mthembu.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know in relation to the township and the streets, where this took place?  If you can't name a street's name, did it happen early on during the attack or later?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: When I look back I would say it's about a short period of time, seven to ten minutes after the attack, while we were running after the people that were retreating.

MR STRYDOM: Apart from the applicants before this Committee, do you remember the names of any other people in that group that were with you when the attack took place?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would like to explain.  Even those who are in the hall, the only people I saw are two among them.  That they were present I heard from them.  The persons I saw was Victor Mthembu and also Nanamshlopeki Shabango.  Those who are not present here, there was one known by the name of Gobi.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the name of the person that you've just mentioned?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I knew him as Gobi.  Another one was Ephraim Makasana, and another one who was know to me by the name of Jumbluti, and the other one was known as Mfana Futi, and another one by the name of Holi, another was Tzwee.

CHAIRPERSON: Would this be the same person who was a member of the Youth Committee?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.  Another one was Mexlendo Damiheza, and another one known as Mxena.  The others I just know them facially but I don't know their names because in kwaMadala people will be flocking the hostel, each and everybody running away from the township.  As a person who was working most of the time I didn't know most of the people in the hostel, I just knew them facially but I didn't know their names.  Those are all  that I can still remember.

MR STRYDOM: Do you remember - Chairperson, will this be a convenient stage to take the adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you still going to be long?

MR STRYDOM: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Well let's finish then.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.
	At that time, did you know a person by the name of Andries Nosenga?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't know the Maseka that I know.  I know someone by the name of ...[intervention]

MR STRYDOM: Matanzima, is that what you're saying?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, Matanzima Masenga.  If you are referring to that one, that is the only one that I know.