Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-11

WITNESS:   We used guns like R1, G3 rifles, shotguns, 9mm, Makorov, Scorpions, AK47s, hand grenades and different hand grenades and there was one home-made explosive which was made by an iron.  You would light a match on it and it will explode after that.

MR MACADAM: Where did all these weapons come from?

WITNESS:   These weapons came from different areas, different places.  As I have explained that some were brought by Gcina Mkhize, some by Mrs Mbuyazi and some by B B Biyela.  Some were brought by Celani(?) Mthethwa, but all these guns were said to be coming from Ulundi.

MR MACADAM: Were at any stage any firearms taken from the Esikhaweni Police Station from the normal supply that they kept for the police officers to perform their duties?

WITNESS:  There was one G3 and I took it from Esikhaweni Police Station myself for one reason, that Mrs Mbuyazi had a police guard which kept her house under guard and was

MR MACADAM: /given

MR MACADAM: 2B given a G3 to use, so that in case - so that there will be an investigation that was led by Captain Sumaroo of C R and took that G3, wanting to take it to ballistic and Mrs Mbuyazi was given a shotgun, because she felt insecurely.  Then I booked the G3 at the police station and gave it to Mrs Mbuyazi so that her police guard could use it to guard her, but as time went on, that G3 was used in one of the operations by the IFP Youth.

MR MACADAM: The hit squad, did they - did it meet at various houses where either attacks were planned or after attacks were carried out, a report back was held?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR MACADAM: And where did those meetings take place?

WITNESS:   These meetings will be at Nhlanganani Hall and the IFP office in Empangeni, Ulundi as well in Captain Langeni's office and Ulundi at Prince Gideon Zulu's home and Mayor, B B Biyela's home as well as Mrs Mbuyazi's home.

MR MACADAM: On these occasions when the hit squad met at these houses, were any persons other than the hit squad members present?

WITNESS:   Do you mean people who were not hit squad members?

MR MACADAM: Correct.

WITNESS:   No, it will never happen like that.  There will be hierarchy which was structured by the IFP, prominent leaders and there was Zulu prominent leaders and us, as operatives.

MR MACADAM: The attacks themselves, were vehicles used to transport the hit squad members to where their victims were?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is true.

MR MACADAM: Whose vehicles were used?

WITNESS:   We would use B B Biyela's car, a Ford Meteor, white in colour and at times use a Mitsubishi, white in colour, which belonged to

MR MACADAM: /Chief

MR MACADAM: 2B Chief Minister's Department and use a white Monza from Chief Minister's Department as well.  At times to go to the meetings we would use the IFP office car in Empangeni and Mrs Mbuyazi's car.

MR MACADAM: And as far as you yourself was concerned, were you ever present when permission was sought to use these vehicles?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's true.  I was present when we were given permission to use the Monza, Opel Monza.  At times I will be present when we will be given permission B B Biyela's car and Mrs Mbuyazi and the IFP office car, but I never was present when we were given the Mitsubishi which belonged to Chief Minister's Department.  Mr Cele would usually drive that car and leave it to us and tell us that it was given by M Z Khumalo for our use.  Each time that car arrived, we would have three guns, two AK47 and one UZI.  Each time he left the car, it will be on Friday and we would use the car from Friday up until Sunday evening, so that Monday morning we drive the car back to his house in Eshowe and he will take it back where it belong in Ulundi with those three guns I've already told you about.

MR MACADAM: And on the occasions when you were present when permission was granted to use these vehicles, do you firstly know whether the person who gave that permission knew what you were intending to use the vehicle for, or not?

WITNESS:   The person would know what we will be doing with the car and what we're up to, because we had our cars, our own cars, we did not need their cars and the very people who gave us the cars were the ones who formed the hit squad hierarchy.  They were the ones who were members of the decision committee to target who should be

MR MACADAM: /killed

MR MACADAM: 2B killed and not.

MR MACADAM: And dealing now specifically with the cases where your hit squad took part in, did you play any role as a detective in the investigation of those cases?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is true.

MR MACADAM: Can you tell us what role you played?

WITNESS:   My role was to mislead the evidence, that when I arrived at the scene of crime to investigate initially or to conduct an initial investigation, I would destroy empty cartridges from that scene of crime and in the investigation diary, on the docket, I would write misleading information.

MR MACADAM: And can you indicate briefly what the nature of this misleading information is that you would write?

WITNESS:   I will write that at the scene I found no cartridges at all.  I would also further write that the kind of a gun that was used, I cannot explain it, because there were no cartridges found on the scene of crime.  Such things.

MR MACADAM: And this in general how - what happened when the hit squad operated.  If you can come now to the murder of Sergeant Dlamini.  Were you involved there?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's correct.

MR MACADAM: Can you describe briefly to the Commission how that killing took place?

WITNESS:   I would ask for the Commission to at least give me an idea where to start in the killing of Sergeant Dlamini.

MR MACADAM: Can you explain how you came to be involved firstly and then also if you're aware of any reason why he should be killed?

WITNESS:   The killing of Sergeant Dlamini emanated largely from the fact that he was sympathising with the ANC and that there was that kind of information that he gave the Goldstone Commission the invaluable

MR MACADAM: /information

MR MACADAM: 2B information that the Zulu police were helping the IFP to kill the ANC members and that Sergeant Dlamini did not even pretend that he hated IFP and that he hated Chief Buthelezi.  He would wear ANC ... (inaudible) or T-shirts and there were already reports that were given to Brigadier Mzimela with regard to the fact that he was insulting the IFP members, calling them prostitutes of Gatsha and that emanated from Esikhaweni Police Station.  Each time the ...[break in recording]

MR MACADAM: (END OF CASSETTE NO 2B)

MR MACADAM: (START OF CASSETTE NO 3A)

MR MACADAM: 3A

WITNESS:   ... The female IFP members, each time they wear their traditional gears, the Zulu traditional gears, arrive at the police station and Brigadier Mzimela would drive his car and transport them to the IFP rally.  That was the practice in Esikhaweni and each time he saw those ladies with those gears, he would call or refer to them as Gatsha's prostitutes and there were such reports about Sergeant Dlamini and that kind of information that he gave, that invaluable information to Goldstone Commission with regard to the fact there was police who were working hand in hand with the IFP.

MR MACADAM: How did you become involved in killing him?

WITNESS:   We were already given an instruction to kill Sergeant Dlamini and the instruction was given by Gcina Mkhize and one was given to me by Brigadier Mzimela in his office.  I was with Mr(?) Mbuyazi, son-in-law and he was scolding me when he was giving me that instruction saying, "It's long overdue", this was long overdue, the hit squad was no longer as effective as it used to be, "What is happening to the hit squad?  Are we now busy with ladies or

MR MACADAM: /womanising?".