Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-16

MR SMITH: Hello Bawuli, unfortunately I have to ask you your age, I know it's not very 
kind.  How old are you now?
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MS MHLAWULI: I'm nineteen.

MR SMITH: How old were you when your father died.

MS MHLAWULI: I was about eight and my brother was three.

MR SMITH: And 
your little brother, how old was he?

MS MHLAWULI: Three.

MR SMITH: Now you have requested an opportunity to address the Commission, and in 
particular you wanted to  tell the Commission how your father's death, what effect it had 
on your lives, when you were still staying in Oudtshoorn.  And you have informed me that 
you wanted to relate the harassment that took place after your father's death, and the way 
in which your mother was treated by  policemen, and in particular also the reaction of 
your younger brother to this.

MS MHLAWULI: Well at the time I was very young, but I just happen to remember 
some of the things that happened.

MR SMITH: If you feel that you are not ready to give evidence now or that you're not 
strong enough, I can ask the Commission to give you an opportunity tomorrow, Mrs 
Goniwe is still going to give evidence on this matter, so if you feel that you are not strong 
enough, then you must just say so.

MS MHLAWULI: No it's alright, I will continue. After my father's death, we went 
back to Oudtshoorn, that's where my mother was teaching. There was this particular 
morning when we were all sleeping in one room, (end of tape )
.....they would just kick it open you know, and my mother just thought there was nothing 
else she could do, she just went to open the door.  She led them into the house and as usual 
they came in and were searching for things that we didn't know.  They came across one 
big poster titled Freedom EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/

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MHLAWULI: Now, and they took it. And they saw some sympathy cards from people who were very 
sympathetic and sent the stuff from all over the world, and this one policeman whose 
name was Kroeter, he came across those and he was making fun of them saying, "Dit is 
die kaarte van die doeie man", and they were kind of making a joke out of it, out of the 
death.
 After that, this man Kroeter was like harassing my mother, he was screaming and 
yelling at her, asking whose belongings are these, why does she say everything belongs 
to my father?  And my mother said, because the stuff does belong to him, and he doesn't 
necessary do what he does with her, because he was like barking, like talking to a dog. My 
mother said, "I'm a human being, so are you, so you don't need to speak the way you do."
 This man said, "The truth will come out one day", and that was very ironic 
because here we are today in the Truth Commission talking about this truth.  And I mean I 
never expected him to say that because the truth that is coming out is based on him now, 
not us, we're the victims. He's the one that committed all this pain to us, you know.  And 
after that my mother said, "I agree with you very much, I strongly agree with you, the 
truth is definitely coming out one day". And this man sat down, and for once ever since he 
entered the door, he sat down and he asked my mother if he could smoke.  My mother 
said, "Okay fine, he could smoke".  He lit a cigarette and he sat down and smoked.  He 
looked quite withdrawn after that. And they had arrived at our around about 12 midnight, 
and now it was around about six in the morning.

MR SMITH: So they were there for the whole evening?

MS MHLAWULI: For the whole evening.
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MR SMITH: Kept you out of sleep?

MS MHLAWULI: Yes, and we never got to go back and sleep, we just had to get 
ready to go to school.

MR SMITH: How old was your younger brother at the time?

MS MHLAWULI: He was three years.

MR SMITH: Three years, how was he affected by this.

MS MHLAWULI: We used to go to town with my mother or just go out, but my 
brother, immediately he saw the policeman, or a white person, or he saw whoever was 
non-black, he would say, "Here are these dogs who killed my father".

MR SMITH: Mabaluwa, what would you ask the Commission to do for you.  Are you 
interested to know the identity of the person or persons who are responsible for the death 
of your father?

MS MHLAWULI: Well before I come to your question, I'd just like to thank my 
principal, Mr Idiessi, because after we stayed in Oudtshoorn, we all moved to Cape Town 
because my mother, at the time of my father's death had registered to study further with 
my father.  But then she went on alone without my father, and when we got to Cape Town 
I had to go to a certain school, according to the province that we encountered.  So the 
school was quite expensive and my mother couldn't afford it, but my principal, Mr Idiessi 
was so kind and understanding, he let me stay at the school and when my mother wanted 
to take me out he wouldn't let her because I would get very frustrated at any other school, 
so I stayed.  Then at the end of Matric, last year, Mr Gran, 
isn't here today, he organised a scholarship for me, and I'm very grateful to him.        
 Well, answering the question, the people who did this to us have done something 
very cruel that nobody would ever EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/

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MHLAWULI: forget.

MR SMITH: Would you like to know the identity of these persons?

MS MHLAWULI: I would love to know who killed my father, so would my brother, I 
suppose, because it's very hard for us right now to do anything, because in order for us to 
forget, and forgive, we do want to forgive, but I mean I don't know what to say, we do 
want to forgive but I mean we don't know who to forgive, we don't know the killers, you 
know.  And I must say we're all upset about this. It's been a loss, a big loss too because my 
mother has to play two roles, a mother role and a father role, and I like to say, I'm very 
proud of her.  She's been very good.

MR SMITH: Thank you, Mabaluwa, thank you very much.  That concludes my 
questioning Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

PANEL MEMBER: My question is going to be directed to all three, in fact all four 
families. If it were possible for the Commission to facilitate the something that should be 
done to remember all four families, since this was a so-called group killing, do you think 
that as families you could get together and provide some ideas as to what you think we 
should do to facilitate something to remember the four?  You don't have to tell us now 
what you would like us to do.  But it's just the idea, do you think it would be a good idea? 
As a group killing that you want to commemorate, the four families get together and think 
of something that could be done to remember the families as a group?
 In fact I've just been indicated to that  perhaps when you talk tomorrow, Mrs 
Goniwe, you will have put your heads together and you possibly will know then, what it is 
that EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/

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you'd like to have. I just wanted that to be told to you.