Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Hugh?

MR LEWIN: Just one brief question.  Do you feel under threat in any way, now that you are back?

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Ja, that is something which is there, of course, you will recall that here we are dealing with professional and licensed killers. They can do anything they like any time.  They are even doing it.  Two months ago a friend who is ex-ANC prisoner in Quattro and working for North-West Government was nearly assassinated by six guys.  He is about to give, to testify before you. He was also prevented from getting a post in the government, but he fought and ultimately got the post.  Our guys, most of them ex-ANC prisoners, are afraid to come before the Commission because Mogodo, I don't know how can I describe Mogodo.  They are a terrible organ.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions? Thank you very much.   Can I also just ask you a question.  You read letters that you have written to Mr Mandela, whom I suppose you are referring to the President of this country today. Have you had any responses from him?

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Nothing at all, because I didn't give them my address, because I don't want them to know where I am staying, although they know.  Now recently I wrote a letter to Legalwise, my lawyers and copied that letter to the President, to Tony Leon, my friend in UK and also Joe Modise. So Joe Modise responded through Legalwise to me,
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and his letter is so brief, concerning the Walmersdal incident. I don't know what is in his mind, because the letter is so short.

CHAIRPERSON: You have touched upon my next question. I just wanted to know from you whether you have, since you came back, have you ever made any effort to communicate your anger to Minister Joe Modise directly, in the form of writing or whatever method?

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Ja, I have written a lot of letters to him, but it is only now he has responded, because mainly I am under Legalwise, I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: If you might tell the Commission, you indicated that you had wanted him to be here. I suppose you wanted to send some messages to him. I just want to know whether his responses have made you feel better or made you feel worse?

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: No, I am feeling worse, because there is nothing in that letter, because I have questions I wanted to ask him, you know.  If you may allow me to read them.  Just a few questions.  Because I think he must get these questions, because I want to know why I was detained in the first place.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any question that you would have liked to ask? I have noted that you wanted to know why you were detained.

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Yes, there is a number of questions directed to Joe Modise.
 The first question is that why did JM order that I be detained.  
 Does JM condone what Mogodo did to me?  
 Why the ANC never compensated me so that I pay for my 
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medical expenses.  Why JM defamed my character. 
 Was it the ANC or Joe Modise's policy to run prisons in foreign lands, where ANC members were brutally slaughtered?
 Can JM prove that those murdered by Mogodo were the agents of the State?  
 Why the ANC refused the international committee of the Red Cross to inspect its prisons in 1993.  
 Why did the MK engineers unit demoblish Quattro when they withdrew in 1989.    
 Why JM boys troubled me in Walmersdal.  
 Lastly, why did ANC never adhere to Geneva Convention rules, concerning those it detained, since the ANC was a signatory, eg those detained were to be tried lawfully.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we also have a copy of those questions.  We will ask Zodwa to, if you are happy with that, to photocopy them quickly?

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mnqibisa, thank you very much for appearing before the Commission.  We can see that this is a big issue for you, and I don't think any sane person can go through different commissions for fun. It is an indication of the pain, the anger and unresolved conflicts about what you described as violation of your rights.  You are one of those people who according to your statement, have been exposed to atrocities at different levels of your growth.  First of all you flee the country in search for strategies to liberate people from human suffering.  According to your statement you suffered a great deal outside as well, which means you were exposed to multi-levels of trauma. In coming back much as you are beginning to see the fruits of all your efforts, but you are still under tremendous pressure and pain.  It
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has come from as many witnesses as possible, that as long as people are enslaved to suffering, there will be no democracy.  So you are one of those people who are highlighting a challenge that is facing us.  But I just want to encourage you to continue seeking help, even emotionally, while there is a search for what you are exposed to.
 I also want to thank you for trusting the Commission. If you notice we are trying hard to maintain our independence, much as we are set-up by the government, but we look at human rights violations across the board.  We look at human rights violations as orchestrated by the previous government, by all sorts of people as they come before us.  So I hope that will make you to feel different, to feel better as well, to know that we are an independent commission in our search for the truth about your problem, we will try to maintain our independence as much as possible.  Thank you.

OLEFILE SAMUEL MNQIBISA: Thank you.
(

APPLAUSE: )

CHAIRPERSON: In closing I would like to remind people to leave this behind. They are of no use outside this, but before you stand really, I would like to welcome and thank the two counsellors who have just joined us towards the end. Also to thank the people who have come here, tolerated the cold, in support of the witnesses.
 Previously people used to come in here and leave with many unresolved questions as to what has happened. But today, at least, you are here to listen to human rights violations as perpetrated at different corners in our society.  So we really thank you very much. We hope you will spread the gospel, inform other people in Soweto and the 
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other surrounding areas, that the witnesses who appear before the Commission, they need a lot of support.  You are witnesses yourselves, people are experiencing different kinds of pain from different corners.  So healing will only take place ....
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