Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

BISHOP STOREY: Is this in my notes to President Mandela?

MS MKHIZE: Yes.

BISHOP STOREY: Yes.

MS MKHIZE: You say this is the latest in many incidents, she is implicated in high-level common-law crimes, that's (...indistinct), I was just interested whether it refers to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, and whether what she was implicated in.  It is something which might be of interest to us.

BISHOP STOREY: No, I will answer the second question first. These are shorthand notes, this is an exact replica of notes I made to convey to Bishop Magoba by telephone.  So the sentences mustn't be read as if they make perfect English sense.  By the time we had reached this stage in trying to deal with this crisis, I had become aware of many other incidents involving particularly the Football Team, because you can't deal with one aspect of what they are alleged to have done without then people saying, oh yes, but I mean this isn't the first time that there's this and that, and I had been to the meeting, and I had listened to somebody talk about how they had cut their throat, and so on.  So I was saying to Mr Mandela, you need to know that this is not an isolated incident.  That's the first thing.
 The capitals is simply saying to Mr Mandela, this is a common-law crime, this is not a political thing.  One understands the atmosphere we were living in and the capacity and possibility of people to do things under political pressure and for political reasons which this Commission is uncovering and dealing with all the time, and I think understanding very often why people did things.  This was a common-law crime.  This was kidnapping, and he needed to understand that this was not a political harassment going on here, or a political issue. Fundamentally it was a common-law crime.
 Now your earlier question is harder to answer, because I feel even now the dilemma that I was in when I get a message that Mrs Mandela wants to see me.  But I had made a commitment, I had made a commitment to work with the community.  I had sat listening to the Crisis Committee, consisting of people who had far, far more senior positions in the movement, people who had enjoyed much more respect in the community than I did, who had gone to that home and been completely stone-walled and had achieved nothing.  Some of them had gone as a group.  The question was whether I going alone into that place would have achieved anything.  That was one question.
 The second question was how could we achieve anything in a place where these youngsters who were still being held in captivity, what would be the usefulness of speaking with them if they were not free to speak their minds, and there was complete agreement by everybody who had been to that house that those young people were not free to speak their minds.  But I think the supreme thing was that I was not prepared to do it unless I had consulted with the community, and as it was I've indicated I had some difficulty finding the people I wanted to consult with.  I also wanted to consult with the leader of my Church, because as far as I was concerned this was changing the ball game quite significantly if I was to go in there,  and I would want some affirmation that this is the right thing to do.  My advice was ultimately, and all I could do was (...indistinct), no, do not go unless you have the community approval. It could be misunderstood.  So I didn't.  And, you know, that may have been a mistake, it may have been wrong, maybe I could have achieved their release a little earlier, I don't know, but that was the decision made, and I have to say I think I did it with the right bona fides.

CHAIRPERSON: Khoza.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you, Bishop.  Dr Storey, I want to refer you to the secrecy meeting of the Crisis Committee (...indistinct) and you've said there was a (...indistinct) part of that Committee in the name of Krish Naidoo.

BISHOP STOREY: Ja.

KHOZA MGOJO: And when he was asked why he was in that meeting, he said he was a go-between. In the context of that meeting, what did you understand that to mean?

BISHOP STOREY: That he was a go-between between Mrs Mandela and the Crisis Committee and possibly the Church as well, the go-between between Mrs Mandela and the group of people who were sitting there ...[indistinct] the Crisis Committee and ...[indistinct]

KHOZA MGOJO: Did he say who had sent him to be in that meeting?

BISHOP STOREY: No, I can't remember whether he did say that.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  You have a statement you have said you wanted to ...(intervention)