Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-12-09

N D NTANZI: Yes, there were three of us.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR SAMUEL: ...(inaudible).  Now you say Mr Ngwenya shot your brother?

N D NTANZI: Yes, it was Mr Ngwenya who shot my brother.

MR SAMUEL: Where did he get this firearm from?

N D NTANZI: He actually received it from one of our comrades with whom we'd met at Ntuli's home.

MR SAMUEL: Now you mention that various people were visiting your home regularly, do  you know who these people were?

N D NTANZI: The people who were visiting my brother?

MR SAMUEL: That is correct.

N D NTANZI: I did not know them.  It was when they arrived, IFP would be killed.  After we had killed my brother, the killing of IFP people in the area stopped.

MR SAMUEL: When did you take this decision to kill your brother?  What were your suspicions relating to these people, what did you think they were doing and what did you think your brother's role in this whole situation was?

N D NTANZI: I thought that he was actually the one sending these people to kill IFP people.  We were actually protecting the area in which we resided.

MR SAMUEL: Was your brother ever a member of the IFP?

N D NTANZI: He was not.

MR SAMUEL: It must have taken some deep seated feeling for you to do nothing to stop your own brother from being killed, can you explain to the Committee what went through your mind before he was killed?

N D NTANZI: My brother opposed us.  He would not attend meetings or conferences.  In that area we were being killed and no-one knew who was responsible for those deaths.
	I even left my home and moved to another area because I could see that I was in danger.  We then met with other IFP members and discussed about what we should do because there were people who kept on visiting my home and I told them that I did not know what to do because I no longer stayed at home.  
	We decided that he is the one who should be attacked.  He was attacked and killed and thereafter the situation improved because those people no longer came to my home and those cars were no longer seen in the area, and the people also had peace in the area.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell me what date it was when  you attacked and killed your brother?

N D NTANZI: I cannot remember the date but it was on a Saturday in 1993.  I don't remember the month.

CHAIRPERSON: Well the judgment in your case says that it was on the 25th of September, would you agree with that?

N D NTANZI: ...(no English translation)

MR LAX: No you haven't understood or there's been a mistake in the translation, what the Chairperson is saying to you is that when the Court found you guilty, the Court made a finding that the incident occurred on the 25th of September 1993, you wouldn't dispute that would you?

N D NTANZI: No, I would not.

CHAIRPERSON: And what was the area?

N D NTANZI: At Ezendopi.

CHAIRPERSON: Ezendopi?

N D NTANZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is that, near where?

N D NTANZI: Near Eshowe.

CHAIRPERSON: Near Eshowe.  I'm asking you this because we are going to see if we can obtain figures as to attacks in that area over that period.

MR SAMUEL: It's now 1998, you've spent some three years in prison, how do you feel about what you've done?

N D NTANZI: I deeply regret what I did but it was because of the political situation.  There was a war, my brother was killed, I did not gain anything from that.  I am deeply remorseful.

MR SAMUEL: Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SAMUEL

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Sir.
	Mr Ntanzi, you say your brother was not a member of the IFP, is it so?

N D NTANZI: I was an IFP member.

MR MAPOMA: I'm talking about your brother, Sir.

N D NTANZI: He was not a member.

MR MAPOMA: Was he a member of the ANC?

N D NTANZI: I think so because IFP people were being killed.

MR MAPOMA: Would the reason be why you think he was a member of the ANC is because people were killed?

N D NTANZI: The reason I say that he was an ANC member is because ANC people used to come to the area and kill people and no-one knew who was responsible.  We were also trying to defend ourselves and then discussed the issue of killing him.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever discuss the issue with your brother?

N D NTANZI: No, we did not discuss the issue because we were not on good terms.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you not on good terms with your brother?

N D NTANZI: Yes, we were not.

MR LAX: Sorry, if I could just interpose.
	Why were you not on good terms with your brother?

N D NTANZI: He would criticize the IFP, that it actually belonged to people who were ignorant and he was opposed to the organisation.

MR MAPOMA: You do not know the people who used to visit your brother, is it so?

N D NTANZI: I don't know them.

MR MAPOMA: And you do not know whether they were members of the ANC or not, is it not so?

N D NTANZI: I would see them wearing ANC T-shirts when they visited my home, some of them would have jackets on.  That is why I also decided to flee.

CHAIRPERSON: So they came into this area, openly wearing ANC T-shirts?

N D NTANZI: If perhaps it was hot they would be walking on the road wearing these T-shirts.  Sometimes they would have those T-shirts under jackets.  If perhaps there was a meeting in the area, they would first come to my home and then thereafter leave to go to their meetings which would be at a venue not known to me.

MR LAX: Was there an ANC branch in the area, so that there were ANC members who were also living in the area as well as IFP members?

N D NTANZI: The area was mixed, there was ANC and IFP members.

MR LAX: If this was - what did the rest of your family feel about these people coming to your home?

N D NTANZI: There was nothing that my parents could do because even my family would actually go and not sleep at home.  I myself was also forced to move away from home to stay with other relatives because I was no longer safe.

MR LAX: So you didn't meet as a family and discuss this problem and say we're going to talk to this brother and make sure that he stops this behaviour or keeps the politics out of the family or something like that?

N D NTANZI: There were no good relations between me and my brother because ever since I was an IFP member we have never been on good terms.  I was even once attacked by some unknown people who, those people had actually been visiting my brother, and we as family enquired about why they should attack me after having visited my brother.  And I decided to leave home because I felt that I was no longer safe.

MR LAX: Mr Ntanzi, the question was, did you as a family not meet and discuss this matter with your brother, not whether you discussed it with your brother personally.  We know the answer to that already.

N D NTANZI: Yes, we did meet and discuss it but it was difficult because my brother is the eldest at home and he would not listen to anyone.  I then realised that there was no point in me remaining at home.

MR LAX: Carry on, Mr Mapoma, thanks.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, when did you join the IFP?

N D NTANZI: Sorry?

ADV SIGODI: When did you join the IFP?

N D NTANZI: In 1982.

CHAIRPERSON: '82?

ADV SIGODI: And how many are you at your home?

N D NTANZI: ...(no English translation)

N D NTANZI: Do you have brothers and sisters?

N D NTANZI: I have two sisters and three brothers.  We are altogether five.

ADV SIGODI: Were you all staying at home?

N D NTANZI: Before the violence erupted we were all living at home.

ADV SIGODI: Do you have both of your parents?

N D NTANZI: My father is late but my mother is still alive.

ADV SIGODI: When did your father die?

N D NTANZI: I do not quite remember because he died when I was still very young.

ADV SIGODI: And did your family belong to the ANC or did they belong to the IFP, the other members of your family?

N D NTANZI: My mother and the two sisters and myself belonged to the IFP but my younger brother is an ANC member?

ADV SIGODI: The younger brother is an ANC member, is that what you said?