Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Any further questions?Dr Mgojo.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much, Ma Mohali. I am not goingto be long too because I feel that you have undergone a strain derived fromyour experiences. I just want to ask just a few things just to fill up. Somewherein your narrative you said that when Bokile was arrested he was kept in a flat.--- Yes, I said that.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where was that flat, and whose flat was that?

WITNESS: This wasthe Municipality flat in the township. It was called the Native Affairs flat.We used to call it flat.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you. You said again that the police once asked you togo and fetch your son in Lesotho, and when you went there you found that hewas in a camp which had  nobody, and he refused to come back. Did the police ask

KHOZA MGOJO: you to give a report about your trip since you were sent bythem?

WITNESS: When I got to the police station I never told them that I had gotmy son at the camp. I told them that I had got him from the street.

KHOZA MGOJO: And did they ask you why he had refused to come back?

WITNESS: Hesaid he was scared that they would kill him. He said he didn't want to comeback, he was scared that the police would kill him.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Mohali, you know that these police were very inquisitivepeople. The question I am asking, when you came back, since they knew that youhad gone there, they had encouraged you to go there, did they come back andsay that, "Why did your son refuse to come back?" This is what I want to establish.They never worried you about why he didn't want to come back?

WITNESS: The police,when they said that we must go to Lesotho, they said I must go to Fountain andtell them as to how I went. Then they asked me as to where my son is. I toldthem that he refused. They asked me why. I told them that he was scared thatthey would kill him. They said they wouldn't kill him, he must come back.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible) ... your narratives you have mentioned the SecurityPolice. I am not sure which Security Police they are. You mentioned those fromThaba Nchu and those from Ladybrand. Were they the SAPs or the BophutatswanaGovernment Police, or a mixture?

WITNESS: According to what they said to me, thatis where he died, they said all the police came together. It was police fromLadybrand, as well as YB, as well as Bloemfontein policemen were there, butthe most were white people or white policemen. (Inaudible) ... now you know that the Truth

KHOZA MGOJO: Commission is interested to the families too. How much hasthis affected you as a mother, these experiences?

WITNESS: They affected us so terribly,because each and every time we were in pain. I even had diseases or sufferedfrom certain illnesses because of what had happened. We lost so much due torunning from pillar to post trying to trace my son.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: You have already heard from Mr Borain how we sympathise withyou in all the troubles that you've been through. It's not easy to comfort people,but we are trying. Even if we are weak, but we always say let God be the personwho comforts you, let Him be the person who takes car of you, because the storythat you have told us today is a very sorrowful one that your son had been killedin that way, and thereafter you didn't even know where he was buried. To addto that the one coming after him was also tortured as you have indicated.

KHOZA MGOJO: We want to thank all the women, because they are brave. Youwomen are very powerful women. You are forgiving, and that surprises us. MayGod be with you and your family in this time of trouble. We all know that Heis Emmanuel and He will be with you. We are free today, we have freedom today,because most people sacrificed themselves. Your children were also sacrifices.We thank you. May God bless you. We want to thank you.

UNKNOWN: Mr Kaloti, could you put the earphones onplease. You have your sister with you today.

ELLEN KALOTI: Yes.

UNKNOWN: We'd like to welcome you both, and I knowyour name, Elvis Kaloti, is that correct?

ELLEN KALOTI: Yes.

UNKNOWN: I am not sure about your sister's name. Perhapsshe could tell me, or you could tell me your name, or you could tell me yoursister's name.

ELLEN KALOTI: She is Ellen Kaloti.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. Now, are you both goingto speak, or just you, Mr Kaloti?

ELLEN KALOTI: No, she's speaking.

UNKNOWN: She's going to be speaking?

ELLEN KALOTI: Yes.

UNKNOWN: And you as well?

ELLEN KALOTI: No.

UNKNOWN: No. So it's just - okay. All right, that'sEllen Kaloti. I want to welcome both of you very warmly to the witness stand.Thank you for waiting. I suppose you wondered if you were ever going to haveyour chance. You can hear me all right on the earphones, no problem? Wonderful.Thank you very much indeed. This is a story about detention, torture and harassment.That is the story you're going to tell, but before you do I must ask you totake the oath, so I'll be grateful if you will please stand.

ELLEN KALOTI: (Sworn, States)

UNKNOWN: Commissioner Lyster is going to help youto tell the story, and I am going to hand over to him now.
/MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mrs Kaloti. I understand thatthe evidence that you will give relates to the assault and torture or your brother,Elvis, who is with you today, and that he has requested you to speak and tellus about this because you were there when this happened. Can you tell us thatstory, and before you do that will you just tell us something about where youlived, you and your brothers. Just give a short background to this incidentwhich you're going to tell us about. Thank you.