Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-11

GEORGE BIZOS: This is not a - the complete transcript is a very bulky document.  What we have done, Mr Chairman, is to make a summary which we have handed in.  It will be open of course to our learned friends to go through it and add to it if they so wish but we intend to rely on it and particularly to those events described, that there was generalised public violence, death, injuries and destruction on a large scale.  The transcript is available, we have a copy of it in court.  We submit that we do not foresee that it will be necessary to burden the Committee with such a lengthy document but our learned friends we know have a copy or copies of this because it was made available at the inquest.
	The one explanation that we want to give, Mr Chairman, is that you will see that it is in time sequence but what we want to indicate is that although it is given in hours and minutes, the time given is not necessarily the precise time in which the event occurred, it is the time which the report came in, so that when a police officer reports, he may have had to do something urgent in between, before going to his radio and saying, this is what has happened but we submit that it is a useful piece of evidence which is admissible as evidence as part of the - if we were in a court of law, as part of the ...[indistinct], but certainly is reliable and we submit, vital information for the Committee to have regard to.
	Mr Chairman, the inquest held by His Lordship Mr Justice Nugent concerned only 19 of the deaths that occurred on that day.  It was established that over 50 people died in greater Johannesburg on that day and not only the 8 that died in the vicinity of Shell House.  These dockets and/or inquest records were and are in the possession of the Attorney-General.  
	We have made a summary of those documents.  It was handed in at the inquest.  Our learned friends were given copies.  We have included it in bundle B from pages 197 - 253 and intend to make use of it as information tending to prove the nature and extent of this violence that this gathering and marches led to, from which we will ask the Committee to draw an inference as to what this large group of people were doing and intended to do at Shell House.  
	I do not intend, Mr Chairman, taking up anymore time in relation to this document.  Our learned friends had an opportunity to check what was - whether it accurately reflects what was in the Attorney-General's files and so on.  
	Mr Chairman, we have also included in the file two newspaper cuttings, one containing a statement which if need be we will show, that Mr Ndlovu admitted to have been correctly reported.  It's to be found on page 85 and a newspaper report appearing on page 86 relating to a finding made public by the Goldstone Commission of Mr Themba Khoza's involvement in third force activities, all be it on a prima facie basis, Mr Chairman.   We will draw inferences from that, Mr Chairman.  
	We will deal with -  Mr Chairman, there are also two videos recording Mr Themba Nkosa - I beg your pardon, Mr Humphrey Ndlovu and his attitude to violence and the possession of firearms.  There is a transcript of the one of a speech made in Vosloorus outside a hostel.  You will find a transcript of both the vernacular and an English translation of what he said, and a video transcript on page 94.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you find out from your clients, if these are your clients, as to what the nature of the complaint is please?
NO SOUND

CHAIRPERSON: May I address my remarks to counsel who are appearing for the victims and the objectors, we can't carry on like this.  I'm going to adjourn for a short while to enable you to find out whether you can articulate their problems at the appropriate time or not, because if they have no confidence in you, and wish to do it themselves, then these proceedings will have to take a different turn.  I'm now going to adjourn for a short while to enable all of you to find out what precisely it is that is concerning your clients, if they are your clients.  If they are not your clients then it's another matter.  If they are not your clients, then it may be we have to conduct these proceedings in the absence of people who are preventing us from working properly.  I'm going to take a short adjournment.  I am just reminded that it is 13h00.  We will take the luncheon adjournment now and resume at 14h00.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos, may you proceed.

GEORGE BIZOS: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: No.

MR LAX: Just put your mike on, Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Each time you read anything out, all this gets transcribed as part of the evidence again, and that's duplication, which one wants to try and avoid.