Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tzaneen — 1997-04-10

THOMAS MANTHATA: (Not tranlated)   ...who this comrade was?

MR: MOLAPO:   I did not know - actually I could not understand what happened, because I had just arrived at the hotel and I was trying to approach the employees and they told me to wait a little bit because they were trying to discuss what happened.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who was the owner of the hotel ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: It's John Mogodi.

THOMAS MANTHATA: They way I heard you explaining, I think you said John Mogodi was manufacturing handgrenades or bombs.

KOMAPE MOLAPO: Yes, they told us that he was testing the handgrenades.  Actually they didn't say the handgrenades.  It was the police who were saying that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was  he arrested ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: Yes, only for a day when they called me to testify.  That was on the 17.11.1986.

THOMAS MANTHATA: This, the other kid who was shot dead,  what's the name of the kid ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: I don't know his name and I didn't know where he, he was staying, because I was at the hospital too at the time and when I came back ...

THOMAS MANTHATA: Even at the time of the funeral were you at the hospital ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: Yes, I was still at the hospital.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Mr Molapo, let's just get some clarification on this first incident.  People are standing in the hotel, one person gets shot, three handgrenades are thrown you say and the hotel owner gets charged.  Is that what you're telling us?  Was he charged for the bombing in the hotel that he owned ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: Could you please repeat the question ?

DR RANDERA: I'm saying that in your statement when you arrived at the hotel there were the youths talking about what had happened in the street with the soldiers.  Soon after that one of the youths gets shot in the hotel.  Somebody shoots from outside.  Then you also say that three handgrenades are thrown into the hotel but the person who gets charged for the incident, is the hotel owner.  Am I understanding that rightly ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: Yes, you  understood me well.  The hotel owner was charged but it was just only to confuse other people.  It, that was not the case.

DR RANDERA: So in your opinion it was somebody else that was doing the shooting and the throwing of the grenades.

KOMAPE MOLAPO: I think it was those  soldiers.  I think it was the soldiers who used to patrol our streets.  It's them who did, who through those handgrenades, because at the same time there, I don't think Lebowa police had handgrenades, they only had teargasses.

DR RANDERA: Okay.  I just want to go to the second incident quickly and that this is not taking away what happened to you in terms of the torture that the police committed against you.  Can you tell us something about these youth people's courts.  Either, because you were directly involved  in them yourself or your understanding  of what they did from living in the community.  What were they doing ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: About the people's court, I knew nothing, because the day when I went to trial this other guy who was with me in the cell  I only got surprised on the day of the trial when he was asked whether he knew me.  He said yes, but then I was, I knew nothing about the youth people's court.

DR RANDERA: Okay.  The question is related to something you said about the militarisation in the area and the existence of Namibian askaris.  Can you just tell us something, a little about that ?

KOMAPE MOLAPO: I didn't say anything about the soldiers at our place.  What I said was that there were youths who held a meeting at the day when I got injured and when, as they were dispersing, soldiers, the soldiers came and they hit other youth with their car and the youths started attacking those soldiers and  they started running and that's when, when they came back nobody saw how many soldiers were there.  I think maybe it was only one, two or ten.  Nobody knew, because it was already late in the evening and we were inside the hotel and they were outside.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much for that statement.  This is also another one of those cases where we're hoping to be able to find some answers, another handgrenade case and it seems from the little bit of investigation that has already started that the questions need to be directed to the then South African Defence Force and as I said, as I mentioned about, with regard to the previous case, our investigators are following up on these matters and your statement does help them in that work.  So, thank you very much and when we do get some answers we will certainly let you know.  Even if we don't get answers we will also let you know but thank you very much for coming forward.  It has already gone ten to twelve.   I think we'll take a break now for tea and I'm going to ask people if they could please be back by ten past twelve and if you can please leave the headsets behind and when you come back from tea you can use them again.  Thank you.
HEARING ADJOURNS