Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-11-16

MR NDOU: Thank you Honourable Chairperson, Honourable Members, I now call the case of Nndweleni Mulaudzi.  It's the same matter, it's the second applicant pertaining to the same facts.

CHAIRPERSON: Which language would you prefer to use?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: I will prefer to use Venda.

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: (sworn states)

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mulaudzi, you have made application before this Committee and I have your form here which you've used to apply for amnesty.  Now what is your date of birth?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: I was born in 1973 on the 4th May.

MR NDOU: I see.  I see here in your application that your date of birth is reflected as the 5th April 1973?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: No, it was during May, it was on the 5th of the 4th month.

MR NDOU: So you were born on the 5th of the 4th month 1973?

INTERPRETER: He is saying he was born on the 4th May.

CHAIRPERSON: Not the 5th April?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes.

MR NDOU: I see.  Are you able to explain why in your application ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: It's obvious that is swopped.

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Now I see here that in your application you've applied for amnesty in respect of murder alone, is it right?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes that is correct.

MR NDOU: Is that the only offence for which you were convicted?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: It was four counts in all but they were all made to run, to be grouped into murder, they were all grouped into a murder case.

MR NDOU: No, just listen to the question.  For which offences were you convicted?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: It's murder.

MR NDOU: Murder in respect of which victim?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Mr Maphaha and Mr Madadzhe.

MR NDOU: So were you convicted of both murders?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes it's true.

MR NDOU: I see and you now come to seek amnesty in respect of the two murders, is that right?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes it's true.

MR NDOU: Now would you explain to the Committee as to how it came about that you murdered these two victims?

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry, he is not applying for arson and he's not applying for any assaults?

MR NDOU: Did you understand the question?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: I'm also applying for both of them simply because when I was charged it was charged as murder only although I did commit these other things but it was in murder only.

MR NDOU: Yes, what I've asked you is what offences were you convicted?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: It's murder, arson and assault, it's two murders, arson and assault.

MR NDOU: And you've now come to seek amnesty in respect of all of those four charges?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes, yes it's true.

ADV DE JAGER: Now I'm afraid we can't deal with it in that way because he didn't apply for assault and he didn't apply for arson in his form.  He can't apply now, he should have applied at the time.

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: What I can explain is this.  All these counts were grouped together and they were seen as murder, meaning that arson and assault were included in that murder.  That is how I've put it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou, tell me something, the arson he is talking about, is that the burning of the house when one of the murders were committed?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose house?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Mr Maphaha.

ADV DE JAGER: So it was part and parcel of the same incident?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: The assault that we speak about is something that is independent of the two murders?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: That one is separate.

MR NDOU: That's why I wanted him just to explain on which offence he was convicted.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Now would you explain to this Committee as to how it came about that you were involved in all these activities?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, let me put it this way, you were in this hearing when Mr Munyai gave evidence?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you agree with what he says in respect of what occurred at those two incidents?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes I agree.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything you want to add?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: No, no there's nothing.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything you want to say that you don't agree with what he said in respect of what actually happened at the houses?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: I disagree with nothing, I agree with everything.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.  Now let us take Madadzhe.  What did you do in that incident?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: In the case of Mr Madadzhe, I participated in him being dragged out and I'm the person who lit the house in which he was dragged into and then burnt the house in where he was dragged into.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Madadzhe?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes and anything else in between?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: There is nothing which I did except lighting the house, the hut.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not talking about the house, I'm talking about what you did to him.  You dragged him out of the house, did you do anything else to him?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: When the deceased was dragged out while he was assaulted by sticks I was behind but when he was dragged to another hut I was there and then I took the matches and lit it.  In the case of the people who dragged him out of the house in the first place I didn't see that because it was during the night and there were so many people.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you did to Mr Madadzhe?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes, it's only that.

CHAIRPERSON: When you dragged him out or helped drag him out, you knew he was going to be killed?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: When he was dragged out he was dragged by the people who were in front and I was still behind by then so I was in the middle of a group which was in front and the other group which was behind me.

CHAIRPERSON: But you knew what he's been dragged out for?
He was going to be killed?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you agreed with it?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes I agree with that.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were party of the group that went there to do that?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes I was one of the people who went there.

CHAIRPERSON: In order to see to it that Mr Madadzhe gets killed?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now let's talk about Mr Maphaha.  What did you do to him during that incident?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: In the house of Maphaha, on our arrival there, when the group reach the house I was the first person to break the windows of the house belonging to Mr Maphaha.  When Maphaha got out of the house I didn't see how he escaped because I was on the under window or western window and he was running to the eastern side and then I broke the windows in the western side of his house and I looked through the window to see who is inside, if there was anybody inside the house.  Then we realised that Mr Maphaha has escaped and is now running away and another group started to chase him and he was running next to the house of a certain Reverend called Mr Chivas.  It's there where he was assaulted but then unfortunately I didn't arrive and then I remained here back watching the house or in guard, guarding the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that how he was eventually burnt?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: Only the window panes were broken.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou when you indicated that there's an application in respect of arson in respect of whose house was that?

MR NDOU: It was in respect of - I think it was just a different name, it was supposed to be Madadzhe.

CHAIRPERSON: And the previous witness?  I always thought that it was Mr Maphaha's house that was being burnt in respect of the arson application.  Did I misunderstand it or what is the position?

MR NDOU: I thought at that stage that the house that was burnt down, the other one was just damaged by the mob.

CHAIRPERSON: Now whose house was that?

MR NDOU: Maphaha house was damaged.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you didn't do anything to Mr Maphaha?

NNDWELENI MULAUDZI: On the deceased I have done nothing even when he was lying on the ground.

CHAIRPERSON: You knew what the group was going there for?