Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-05-25

CHAIRPERSON: ...that is that I was today handed a letter addressed to the Amnesty Committee, apparently written on behalf of either APLA combatants or Africanists Prisoners Unity, I'm not quite sure, which the tone of the letter was to complain that TRC does not treat APLA members fairly, it does not release them and that this should be done immediately after hearings.   There's also a complaint about conditions in prison, which I'm afraid we can do nothing about, that is a matter that must be taken up with the prison authorities, but I would like to say that, and I have before me a copy of the letter that was written to Dr Mugaba last week, saying
"In terms of resolution 3.1 taken at our meeting of the 22nd of April 1998, the PAC undertook to furnish the Amnesty Committee with a written submission in which the policy of the PAC will be set out and responsibility be taken for the incidents applicants are seeking amnesty for.   You may be aware of the fact that several amnesty applications involving members of the PAC have been postponed until the week of the 25th of May in East London to receive evidence from the PAC or the operational commanders of APLA, one of whom is Mr Letlapa Mahlele."
	It then lists the items that have been adjourned to today and it goes on to say:-
"We require the submissions and notifications that someone will adduce this evidence on behalf of the PAC as a matter of urgency to the hearing scheduled to reconvene on the 25th."
	Once again there has been no response, although the fax was received, and it makes it almost impossible for us to come to a fair conclusion in respect of the applicants if we do not get this information, and I would urge all of you who are members of APLA or the PAC to request that they carry out their undertaking and supply the submission which they have undertaken to do.
	Thank you.   Carry on, Mr Prior.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.   I now call Mr Zwelimbanse Makase.   May he be sworn?   Mr Chairman, Mr Makase appears at page 20 to 22 of bundle B.

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: (sworn states)

MR PRIOR: Mr Makase, is it correct that you reside in the Zeleni locality in the Clarkbury district - sorry, Zeleni locality, Clarkbury, in the Nqobo district?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Now, during October - I beg your pardon, August of 1993, you were at your place of employment, which is their brickyard at Zeleni, is that correct?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes, that is so.

MR PRIOR: And that is the day that you saw certain things happening, you heard certain things and you were later approached by the police and you pointed out certain spots to the police near the forest, is that correct?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: That is so.

MR PRIOR: And is it also correct that you made a statement to the police who were investigating that matter, which you read before you were called, and you signed that statement on the 30th of August '93 at Umtata?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: That is so.

MR PRIOR: You also gave evidence at the criminal trial of the applicants, Mr Tuta and Mr Kulman, also in Umtata?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: That is so.

MR PRIOR: Now on that day, which we know is the 27th of August 1993, and it was about two o'clock in the afternoon, you were at the brickyard, is that right?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: That is so.

MR PRIOR: Can you tell the committee what you were doing there at that time?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes I can.

MR PRIOR: Yes, please tell the committee?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I was at that brickyard preparing a stand.   When that truck appeared, I had finished working.   It stopped near the forest.   After it had stopped, a shot rang out into the forest, about three shots.

MR PRIOR: You say you saw a truck arrive.   From which direction did the truck come?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: From the direction of Umtata.

MR PRIOR: You say you saw it arriving and stopping near the forest.   From your position, were you lower down or higher up than the truck?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Below the truck, over Mbashe.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that near the river?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And the road on which the truck was travelling, was that a tarred road or was that a gravel road?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: It's a gravel road.

MR PRIOR: And are you able to say how far the truck was from you when you saw it come into your vision or line of sight and where it stopped near the forest, are you able to say?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: (Indistinct) the incident occurred?

MR PRIOR: How far were you from the truck when you saw where it stopped?   Are you able to point out a distance for the committee?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: It's approximately two kilometres.

MR PRIOR: You said three shots rang out after the truck had stopped.   What was the next thing that happened?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: That truck started and came towards me.   It passed by me.

MR PRIOR: Does the road on which the truck had travelled, that is from the Umtata direction past the forest, if you leave it, does that gravel road run past the brickyard?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Were you able to see from your position in the brickyard who was in the truck as it came past the brickyard?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes, I could see.

MR PRIOR: How many people were in that vehicle?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Two.

MR PRIOR: And then did the vehicle leave your line of sight, did it go out of your sight?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: It passed near me.

MR PRIOR: Tell me something, Mr...
TAPE CHANGES - WORDS LOST - START OF TAPE 2
...either before the truck arrived at the forest, or when the truck left the forest coming past the brickyard, did any other vehicle, and particularly a bakkie, a pick-up, did that accompany the truck?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: There was no car in front of that truck.

MR PRIOR: Did any vehicle arrive before the truck had stopped at the forest, that you could see?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: No, none.

MR PRIOR: From where you were in the brickyard, did you have a clear view of the road which led to the forest and then the road which comes onto the brickyard, I mean can you see that road clearly from the brickyard?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: It is very clearly visible.

MR PRIOR: All right.   Is it correct that some time later, Mr Pangele, Mpangele, from the Umtata Police, arrived at your place of employment?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes, correct.

MR PRIOR: And he asked you certain questions, is that so?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Correct.

MR PRIOR: Did you take him somewhere after that?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: No, I just accompanied him.

MR PRIOR: Yes, to where?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: To where the truck stood.

MR PRIOR: Did you remain there or did you leave while the police were in that area?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I left after I'd given that statement.

MR PRIOR: I just want to ask you this question, did you see the body of the young girl that was found there, or not?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes, I saw that body.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I'm not going to pursue this aspect with the witness, I have other evidence to tender on this aspect, I have no further questions of this witness, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY BOTHA

MR MBANDAZAYA: Mr Makase, where you were standing, or where you were working, were you able to see, or were you in a position to see clearly what was happening, where the truck was standing, was parked?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: No, I could not see because that was a forest.

MR MBANDAZAYA: And you could not see how many people were in the truck at the time, when you saw the truck in the forest?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: No, I could not see that, because that was in the forest, I could only see those when that lorry passed me.

MR MBANDAZAYA: And you were also not, because it was in the forest, if there was any car, other than the truck, would you be able to see it, if it was on the other side of the truck, not on the, on your side on which you were standing?  Were you going to be able to see it?