Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-05-06

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, the police came to take statements from us and I was unable to go to court because I didn't know one policeman who, one of those policeman who came  to my house.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sorry, can you repeat that.  I didn't understand.  You said you couldn't go to court because you couldn't identify anybody but what about this policeman who came to your house ?  You said something about him.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I  didn't  go  to  court  because  I  didn't  have any testimony against
people who attacked me.

RUSSELL ALLY: And the police themselves, did they try and investigate this matter ?  Do you have any knowledge of that ?  Did they go around questioning people, seeing if there were witnesses , trying to find out what happened ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, the police did try to investigate in the village, then people were saying  the  houses  were  destroyed  by  the  police.  If the house is destroyed the
people would say it's the police who did that, so yes, the police did investigate.

RUSSELL ALLY: And nothing happened ?  Up until to-day have you heard anything more from the police?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: They, they didn't tell me of their findings but they just said they were looking for the child for a long time.

RUSSELL ALLY: Of the incident you say that there was this conflict between the ANC and you say everybody else who was not a member of the ANC was targeted by the ANC ?  Can you just ...

NTEBANG SEFULARO: That's true, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you just tell us a little bit about why you say this?  What makes you feel this or believe this ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Can you please repeat your question, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: What makes you say this, you say that anybody who was not a member of the ANC, was targeted.  Now, why do you make this statement,  what was happening  that makes you convinced that this is actually what was happening ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: At the timewere forced to join ANC, all of us  you were forced to join even if you are a member of the Christian Democratic Party, you were forced to join .  I had a neighbour  whom ANC used to go to but they couldn't come to my house.

RUSSELL ALLY: You personally.  Were you forced to join the ANC ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Nobody forced me to join ANC.

RUSSELL ALLY: Where you a member of any other political party at the time ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Which party ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: United Christian Democratic Party, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Believe that was Mangope's party.  Yes ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, that's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And people knew this, in your village ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, they knew very well.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were you in any way, were you just a member of this party or were you an official ?  Did you have any position in this Christian Democratic Party, or just an ordinary member ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I was just an ordinary member.  The people in the village were saying I'm recruiting people  for Mangope but I was just an ordinary member.

RUSSELL ALLY: And were you a member of this party for a long time ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, that's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And  your  son who  was  at  college,  who  was with the Boputhatswana police, was he also a member of this party ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I don't know because everyone went to an organisation of his or her choice.

RUSSELL ALLY: And now, can you tell us  what the situation is like in your village where you live, are there still these old tensions and conflicts of the past or what is actually happening now ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Everything is well now in the village, even though you'd not
know what's in the hut of another person but with my observation, everything is fine.

RUSSELL ALLY: I would just appeal to you that maybe your son who was at school who you said was the one who told you about these threats being made against the family, that, if he could maybe assist us, if he could make a statement and maybe if he knew some names which we could follow up on, to try and, to, to try and get some picture of what was, of what was going on and, and perhaps of these thirty  people who you mention who came into your house maybe the identities or names of one or two of them so, that, in this way hopefully some answers about what happened to your daughter, can be found.
 But thank you, thank you very much for coming to speak to us about another side of the conflict which is also very important for us to hear.  I'll give you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Dr Ally, Professor Meiring and then Miss Joyce Seroke.
PROF. MEIRING: Mrs Sefularo, thank you for telling your story.  I want to ask a number of questions about your personal circumstances, if it's good with you.  The first question I would like to ask has to do with about your daughter, with your daughter, Surprise.  How old was she when she was stabbed to death ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: She was born in 1973, I'm not able to tell how old was she in 1991.
PROF. MEIRING: Was she in school at that stage ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, she was schooling.
PROF. MEIRING: What standard was she in ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: She was doing standard eight.
PROF. MEIRING: There was, she didn't have any children at that stage.  She was too young ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, she didn't have a child.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you so much.  I want to ask about yourself.  You were in
hospital for two weeks and then you could go home.  Was it ever necessary to return to the hospital afterwards for treatment ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I was going for treatment at the clinic and again at the special doctors. yes Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Can you tell us about your problem ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, I'll do that.  I have a problem with my right hand because it broke and then, if I can use it  for a while  it will give me a problem but I don't use it often.  Even working, I work because I'm the only one who's supposed to work otherwise I would not work.  My head is ..(indinstnct).  I don't  put even a hat on the  head because my head is always pain, painful all the time.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you.  You are working.  What type of work do you do ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: I'm not working, I'm a housewife.
PROF. MEIRING: Housewife ?  Your husband, is he working ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, he's working.
PROF. MEIRING: What does he do ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: He's working in the Municipal offices in Johannesburg.  I don't know what kind of work  he's doing.
PROF. MEIRING: He comes during week-ends or during holiday times to be with the family ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Always at month-end, he comes home.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you, those are my questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Miss Seroke ?

MS SEROKE: You said, in your village there were people within the ANC of the
organ, and you were a member of the Christian Democratic Party,  were there members of  Christian Democratic Party in your  village ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Where there many?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Even if there were not many, but there were many.

MS SEROKE: When this incident happened to you, did it happen to other people who were members of the Christian Democratic Party?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, there is a certain woman who's here.

MS SEROKE: Can you give us an example ?

NTEBANG SEFULARO: This woman is my next door neighbour.  They killed her child.  The, this woman could have gone to Garamka Hospital but she's here because the Truth Commission is here. That's the child she was staying with.

MS SEROKE: During the school boycotts in your area, were members of the Christian Democratic Party going to school or  was your only child going to school.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: They were all going to school.

MS SEROKE: But  did anything didn't happen to them.

NTEBANG SEFULARO: Yes, it's only myself and, and the woman I'm telling you about.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.