Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

FRANCINA NTOPELA: They are there, they were there, I remember that after that incident, there was a story that 
Albertina was stealing some clothes and sending them to Transkei and this was dismissed by the comrades 
and there was no press report on this. These children said they were members of the UDF and when this 
happened, some elderly guys came to my house, but I just can't recall their names. 
 They told me that Mrs Dlanjwa used to work with them as a member of the UDF and these children 
who had done this had been sent and bought to do all this. They said UDF was not responsible for this act.
REVD.

XUNDU: If you can recall, in that statement of Mkuseli Jack, he tried to distance the UDF and said 
this was just a criminal act that they cannot promote. Do you still remember that?

FRANCINA NTOPELA: Yes, I do.
REVD.

XUNDU: After this, was there any way of getting hold of these people who were responsible for 
this act?

FRANCINA NTOPELA: Firstly, I must say at the there was this fire, the hippo's came immediately as if they had 
been nearby expecting this act.
 They used a hosepipe to extinguish the fire and it was supposed to be a person to take guard of that 
house according to the government police. But what these soldiers did was that they just drove out and left 
no-one in guard. A certain detective was sent there and he claimed that he did not want to associate himself 
with that because he had just come from Port Elizabeth and he had to investigate.
REVD.

XUNDU: Was there a court case after this act?

FRANCINA NTOPELA: They were collected, these children, and then when we sent another one to go and check 
whether they had collected the right people, then this boy who we had sent said he got scared because these 
children were changing in appearance, so he got scared and he did not bring any definite information to us 
and it just ended there.

CHAIRPERSON: Sizeka we are going to hand over to you.
REVD.

XUNDU: Was there any investigation or any case on this act?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: I was called to the New Brighton Court where I was asked to identify these people. I 
couldn't, except that I could identify that Mongezi who had come on that day and unfortunately he was not 
there in court on the day.
 After that I was not happy, that was after I had been discharged from hospital, because at that time I 
was in hospital, people kept on threatening me and when this one died, they said I would be the next.
REVD.

XUNDU: Now, these people were just threatening you. Even of Mkuseli Jack had made that 
statement to distance the UDF from this act?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Yes, that was the time that I was not happy, even in my house, I didn't leave my house by 
choice, I was compelled to.
REVD.

XUNDU: So, there was no court case of this incident?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: There was, because I say I did go to the New Brighton Court but nothing happened.
REVD.

XUNDU: What are your wishes as you have come before this Commission. What would you like 
this Commission to do about this matter?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Before I could state my wish, I would like to expantiate and say, in all the work that we 
used to do with Mrs Dlanjwa, we were working mainly with some white people like Molly Blackburn. I still 
recall a certain incident where there were floods in Veeplass. We were working with them and there are so 
many things that they used to help us with.
 They would even lead us and show us the correct channels to follow whenever there was any 
problem.
REVD.

XUNDU: Just on that point, now do you think this is what made these people to have this 
suspicions. Do you think that there was a third force that influenced the youth?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Yes, I think there was a third force because I remember one other day in Veeplaas as we 
were standing, we were taking food all over the place. We were standing there with Molly Blackburn and 
Mrs Dlanjwa was there too and we were working. Mrs Molly said, there were some whites who said "are we 
working with this Molly Blackburn" and there were some nasty remarks that were making us unhappy.
REVD.

XUNDU: So, your suspicion is that these youth were being supported by some police from the 
government as if what you were doing was not favoured by the comrades. Is that your suspicion?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Yes.
REVD.

XUNDU: That was the last time you worked?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: At the time this happened my husband had been retrenched and I was the breadwinner 
because my children were very young at the time. In July 1986, I then got injured and then there was no way 
of survival for my family and then we decided to leave Port Elizabeth for King Williamstown to go and stay 
with my parents.
 It was very tough during these years. From 1986 to this year and it is only just a few months that I 
have just got a job at one creche.
REVD.

XUNDU: Did you get any pension?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Yes, I got 5% pension from work. I had many burns on my head. I have got no ear 
because it got burnt and when I am sitting, I have got to support myself.
REVD.

XUNDU: What did they say at your work?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: They just decided to book me off and they didn't give me any substantial amount. All they 
gave me was R7000 for burning and I had to live on this amount for several years because my husband was 
unemployed.
REVD.

XUNDU: Then what happened to your house?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: When they moved from Mrs Dlanjwa's house, they moved onto my house. They looted 
everything, my furniture, they took everything that they wanted to from my house.
REVD.

XUNDU: Was it general looting?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: Yes.
REVD.

XUNDU: The policemen too, did not investigate on this matter?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: No. My father who was there tried to stop them, but to no avail. So the people said we 
were working with the system and I just couldn't tell how. It was just something to deflate us.
REVD.

XUNDU: You said you have now, you would like to state your wishes. What would you like this 
Commission to do for you?

WENDY SIZEKA RAMATHE: My wish is that you should investigate who the instigators of this act were. I need my 
furniture and everything of mine, because in 1991 my husband was threatened that he should not come back 
from exile clever and demanding his things.
 I am always nervous, I am afraid of crowds. I am not trusting because I can't take it that I used to 
work in close connection with the community, but today I find that I am now an enemy to my enemy. 
Wherever I am, I feel untrusted and I also don't trust.
REVD.

XUNDU: Thank you lady. I still remember this period and I know how you feel. I am now going to 
hand over to other Commissioners who may have some questions to ask.