Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 2000-02-16

ME DEHAL: And on page 4 in paragraph 10(b) you say under justification for these acts, omissions or offences
"There is no justification for loss of life and damage to property."
You however feel that:
"Had the chiefs in the area allowed organisations like the African National Congress, the situation could have been kept under control.  Political intolerance displayed by chiefs and Inkatha Freedom Party sparked the unnecessary violence."

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, that is correct.

ME DEHAL: I then take you to page 5 of the bundle, paragraph 11 (b) wherein you deal with the particulars of orders, approvals given and obtained.  You say the following
"I, Tom J Madlala, selected a group of 26 strong men from the UDF, Umtwalumi Youth League, gave them the weapons and ammunition and also gave them the order to protect our people, by shooting to kill our attackers."

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct, I said so.

ME DEHAL: You then deal with ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of weapons did you give them?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: There were various weapons, firearms, assegais, bush knives and ordinary knives.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.  Then you deal with your having been charged in the Umzinto Magistrates Court, held at the Scottburgh Courts and ...(indistinct) under case number H 269/90 with ten counts of murder and one count of arson.  You say that you were convicted, you were found guilty of four counts of murder, you were sentenced on the 8th of August 1991 to 15 years imprisonment.  Is that correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: Is it correct that you are presently held in custody serving this very sentence of 15 years at Westville Prison presently?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just ask for clarification, is he able to say whether the 15 years was 15 years in respect of each of the four counts to run concurrently, or was 15 years the total of the sentence for the four counts?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: It is 15 years for each count, but they ran concurrently.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

ME DEHAL: Thank you.  Mr Madlala, I now take you to page 8 to 22 of the bundle.  This is a letter that you sent to the TRC Amnesty Committee in which you detailed relatively exhaustively the events of the 25th March 1990 being the date on which these incidents for which you seek amnesty occurred.  Do you see that?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, I wrote the letter.

ME DEHAL: So this is your handwriting, is it?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, it is.

ME DEHAL: Do you confirm, for the purposes of this record, the correctness of the contents of that letter in its entirety, as being correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes, I do.

ME DEHAL: If I may take you to page 13 of this letter - sorry, forgive me, firstly to page 9 of the letter, from line 8 downwards, do you see you say that you appeared before Mr van Aarde Esq on a charge of attempted murder of Mr Gabenga Mzelemu who was the leader and also the number warlord of Inkatha Freedom Party.  The trial was adjourned until the 25th of May.  Later that case was withdrawn against all the comrades on the 26th of July 1990.  Correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: And then you say you were subsequently arrested by officer van den Berg who conveyed you to the Meshlomanyama police station, whereafter you were held incommunicado, for 90 days?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: You were held as a political detainee, without any rights to see your family.  You deal with that on page 11, 12, you were not entitled to see a lawyer, you in fact had no visitation rights.  On page 12 you record that your attorneys were Mr Rosh Dehal, that's myself, Mr Marcus Gumede and Ms Indira Kooverjee or Dehal Incorporated.  Correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: But that you could not get any visits from any of them either?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes.  The attorneys only managed to visit me after three weeks.

ME DEHAL: Yes, you deal with that at the bottom of page 12 and page 13 and then if I take you to page 13, at the middle of that page, actually let's begin at the top.  You say
"At Scottburgh Magistrates Court, South Coast, you were indicted for the charge of public violence and that public violence was commuted, you say, to a charge of 10 counts of murder and one count of arson.  All those charges were related to the incident that took place at Umtwalumi in the district of Umzinto near Caesar Bantu Beer Hall on the 25th of March 1990 in which 13 IFP people were shot, stabbed and hacked to death by you and the members of the UDF Umtwalumi Youth League."
Do you see that?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: So are you seeking amnesty for the deaths of these 13 IFP people who were so stabbed and hacked to death?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: And as I understand it, in this paragraph you are saying that whilst you personally acted in so causing their deaths, there were others who assisted you under your instructions within the rank of the UDF Youth League in that area.

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Was he also convicted on the charges of public violence and arson?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: The charges were both withdrawn.

ME DEHAL: Then in the next paragraph on page 13, you say that on the 24th of March 1990, now this is the date immediately preceding the day on which the incidents for which you seek amnesty took place, you say
"On that day the 24th March 1990, the Mawaka and Umgageni villages had been a stronghold of the ANC.  Our people were attacked and killed.  The women were raped.  Sorry - the women were raped and I think then you said the attacked, according to eye witnesses and victims was conducted by Inkatha members, or well-known people of the Umtwalumi tribe.  Among them were Headman Umkopane Radebe, the Warlord Ungandu Luthuli, Mr Zonkezintho Shinga, Warlord Sipo Ngwane, Warlord Roy Blackenberg and others with their support."
Correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: On page 14 of this letter, you continue at the top to say that
"These IFP members and warlords acted with the support of the KwaZulu police, ZP, and the SAP of Hibberdene and Port Shepstone police station."

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: You say five of your people, by your people I presume you mean the UDF Youth League?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: Yes.

ME DEHAL: You say five of your people had been gunned down.  You then detail their names, Comrade Pholakele Dolly Ndwane 19 years old, Comrade Khulubone Mcame 30 years old, Comrade Kubu Kuebe Mzelemu 31 years old, Comrade Keshla Mkhize 27 years old and Comrade Zamfana Radebe.  These were all murdered, others were wounded, including women, men and children.

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did all this take place on the 24th of March?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That's correct.

ME DEHAL: You then continue to say in the next paragraph on page 14, that's the second paragraph, that you were absent in the area that day.  In that attack three IFP people were also killed by the UDF comrades in self-defence.  Correct?

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.

ME DEHAL: Then you deal again with the 25th March, that's the date on which the incidents for which you seek amnesty occurred, sorry 25th March 1990.  You say
"On 25th March 1990, Mawakha police warner by me personally of an imminent attack..."

CHAIRPERSON: That's supposed to be warned, I think.

ME DEHAL: Sorry, is that warned?

CHAIRPERSON: Warned.

ME DEHAL: Thank you very much.
"The police warned by me personally of an imminent attack on residents by Inkatha Freedom Party, IFP members and supporters and her hit squad.  No deterrent action was taken."

TOM JABULANI MADLALA: That is correct.