Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-17

KWANALE ENOCH THOBA: It was the first time I saw that tool and they told me that they always use it but I only knew about the tube.   When I asked them what kind of a substance was this, they told me that it is a medicine that is normally used by Zionists.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED
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MR THOMPSON: (sworn states)

MR HOLE: Dealing with Mr Thompson, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Thompson Sir, you have deposed to an affidavit which was signed by yourself at the Mdantsane Prison, is that correct?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: And in that affidavit you seek to relate the events surrounding the torture of Mrs Nomoy, Miss Maqoma, Miss Msutwana and Brig Simandla?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: In your statement you relate the surrounding events as being the escape of Mr Charles Sebe from prison and the abduction of Mr Kwane Sebe, the son of the President.

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: Would this have been the reason why these people were arrested and tortured?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so.

MR HOLE: Would you tell the Commission today, the Committee, how do you feel about what you took part in the gross treatment that was meted out by your colleagues and yourself to these victims before the Committee today?

MR THOMPSON: I hurt a lot because what I did to them, me and my colleagues was very painful.  And thus I ask for forgiveness.  I would not have laughed or accepted it if it was done to me but because of the working circumstances then we had to handle them in the manner that we did.

MR HOLE: You have heard Mr Thoba answer questions and you have also heard his statement being read.  Do you confirm the contents of that as being the truth, a true account of what took place there?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: And the Elite Unit that you were a member of was it EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
 
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formed in terms of any statute?

MR THOMPSON: Can you repeat your question Sir?

MR HOLE: Was there any law of the Ciskei Parliament establishing the Elite Unit?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: So you refer in your statement to the Elite Unit Act No 18 of 1986 which is annexed in your statement as Annexure A.  Is this the Act we are talking about?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: Was there also a Security Branch of the Police in
Ciskei?

MR THOMPSON: Yes there was Sir.

MR HOLE: But this Elite Unit was established over and above the existing units?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: You mention among the people who tortured these people, yourself, Mr Thoba, Mr Makom and you also mention a Sgt Makwetu, Sgt Belo, Sgt Mzimkulu, and a Lt Blaauw, yet those are the people you mentioned, are these serving members of the South African Police today?

MR THOMPSON: The last time I heard from them, they were working in Ciskei but since I was arrested I don't know where they are now.

MR HOLE: These people were not arrested in connection with this offence.

MR THOMPSON: No, they were never arrested Sir.

MR HOLE: You also mentioned W/O Nandana, Swelendao and Thlulane and Lt Funane.

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

MR HOLE: Do you know if any of them have left the service of the Police services?
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MR THOMPSON: The one I think that is still working is Mr Funane but I am not sure whether he is still employed as a policeman, but Mr Swelendao passed away.   Funane and
Nandana are no longer members of the Police Force.

MR HOLE: Can you tell the Committee how do you relate the torture of these people, especially the women in particular with the attainment of a political objective by yourself or the Government of the day, of which you were an agent of.

MR THOMPSON: Firstly Miss Msutwana, she is a sister to
Nomalungela Msutwana, who is a girlfriend of Mr Charles Sebe.  Mr Sebe escaped or he was released when he was sentenced for terrorism at maximum security prison in Middeldrift. There was information that landed in Elite offices that she is a link between her sister and Charles Sebe, after Charles Sebe had already escaped. That is when we interrogated and cross-questioned her about the assignment she was given by Charles Sebe on this side.  
	Miss Lindela Maqoma and Mrs Nomoy are sisters.  They are Chief Lent Maqoma's daughters who was an ex-minister here in Ciskei and he launched an organisation called Ciskei People's Rights Protection Party.  He is also said to be a member of Illisolomzi.  Mrs Nomoy's husband which is Ben Nomoyi also became a member of that Ciskei Peoples' Rights Protection Party and Illisolomzi as well.   They escaped and sought political asylum in Transkei where they stayed for some time.  These two victims followed thereafter and stayed in Transkei.	They came back, they infiltrated unnoticed but we heard through our informers that they were around and they were suspected that they were being assigned to come here and that's when we cross-questioned them about Illisolomzi's activities and as to why were they here.

MR HOLE: Also you mention in your statement that the assault EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
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was with a view to getting information from these people about agents of these organisations.   Were these organisations lawful organisations in the Republic of Ciskei?

MR THOMPSON: No they were not lawful, because even the organisation itself, Illisolomzi and the Peoples' Rights were banned in Ciskei.   Therefore, we had to know them and find them because they were radicals.

MR HOLE: Can you tell the Commission what was the aim of the Ciskei Peoples' Rights Protection Party?

MR THOMPSON: It was to overthrow Lennox Sebe's Government, so as to govern.

MR HOLE: That concludes the questions I wish to ask from the second applicant Mr Chairman, may I proceed with third applicant?
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HOLE

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Thompson, was the Peoples' Rights Protection Party working together with Illisolomzi?

MR THOMPSON: Yes Ma'am.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And how was it a merger between the two organisations or did they have different constitutions,
only the same aims?

MR THOMPSON: They had the same aims.  The Ciskeian Peoples' Rights Protection Party was an organisation,  Illisolomzi was going to be the armed wing, because they were the ones who were trained in a military sense.

SISI KHAMPEPE: When was the Peoples' Rights Protection Party formed Mr Thompson?

MR THOMPSON: I am not sure but I think it was June 1985 or even 1986.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And Illisolomzi came into existence after the Peoples' Protection Party had been formed?

MR THOMPSON: Yes Ma'am.
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HASSAN MALL: You say that this, these organisations and this party was banned, when was it banned?

MR THOMPSON: I cannot just recall the year, but they were banned immediately after formation, when they were known.

HASSAN MALL: And was this ban done by an Act of Parliament?

MR THOMPSON: Yes it is so Sir.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Hole would you know the answer as to whether this was done by Statute and if so, when?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Hole was it not the Suppression of the Banned Organisations Act?   There was a reference somewhere by one of the applicants in the application to that effect.