Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Well that alone, Mr Van der Veer, should enable you to motivate strongly that the inquiry should be re-opened, that fact alone... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I'm sorry, I've seen a couple of pieces here, you have a whole line-up of people coming in for the rest of the week, okay, and I would, at the end of that, I would like to see exactly what their, let's say not their reactions are, that's irrelevant, but their statements as to the facts, but if it is necessary, please do re-open it.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: What would be your response, would you welcome... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I would welcome it.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...an inquiry and a reinvestigation?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I would welcome it, if there's any doubt, then I would welcome that you open it up and, as you're doing now... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Do you see the need for it, Mr Van der Veer?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Klatzow, I don't think you can take the matter any further with Mr Van der Veer, I think he has - have you further questions?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Mr Commissioner, thank you very much, I've run out questions.   If there are some which re-occur, maybe Mr Van der Veer would give me the opportunity of putting to them in his private capacity at a later stage, or as I pursue my investigation.   Would you have any objectoin to that, Mr Van der Veer?

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, no... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I can't do that.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I mean if there's anything to be submitted... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: He forgets that he's now an employee of the commission.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: That's my problem, sir, that's my problem. If the commission comes back to me on any other questions, I'd only be willing to answer, I have no problem with that, but I cannot answer individuals, I'm sorry.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: I withdraw the question.

MS TERREBLANCHE: If you remember or have anything more on the matters that were discussed with you that you perhaps would think of making a written presentation on it to the commission?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I will.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Thank you very much, Mr Van der Veer for... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Pleasure.

MS TERREBLANCHE: ...making yourself available.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions from the panel?   Mr Magadla?

MR MAGADLA: Mr Van der Veer, are you aware of a delay of the departure of that plane from Taipei?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.   No, I think, sorry, again, I have to think very very carefully, I must be very honest with you, I have closed my mind to the Helderberg, okay, it was one of the most traumatic experiences in my life.   I haven't read anything on the Helderberg subsequent, I even was given a book by somebody who wrote it, I haven't read that, okay?   It's past, and one tends to say, "Look, get it out of your mind".   A question which still stays with me is the cause of that fire, but I think there was a slight delay, if I recollect, I think there was a slight delay in the departure, but the record will show that very clearly.

MR MAGADLA: Could there have been an explanation for that slight delay?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Sir, aircraft have delays, okay, for umpteen reasons, there would be umpteen reasons, and if somebody hid the reason, that would also be quite acceptable, because aircraft, I mean 20% of them get delayed normally.   I may also just say something, where's the doctor, is he not here, on his cockpit voice recorder, I'm at present on the board of an airline in India, they had an incident on Saturday morning on the runway.   What is very interesting is that the cockpit voice recorder tape stopped at a certain point, and started again later on.    Okay, that's one of the first things we found out.   I'm just referring to what Dr David asked me about, you know, when the cockpit, the tape stopped.   Again, what I'm just saying, these things happen, to explain them away is very, very difficult, and I'm very interested to see what the Bombay story is.   I'm just giving this to the panel, to say that these things don't work perfectly, unfortunately.

CHAIRPERSON: Well thank you very much, Mr Van der Veer.  I have, on behalf of the commission and on behalf of this panel in particular, to thank you for having made yourself available, at what, in ordinary circumstances, was short notice really, and in circumstances where you have not even had an opportunity to prepare yourself, and that you were even prepared to come without any legal representations.
 These are heavy matters for us and we feel ourselves totally inadequate to the task, but we have a job to do which we hoped we would do, and if your attendance here has assisted us in getting a better picture of what was going on in those days, we are very, very indebted to you.
 When you read, if you had an opportunity to do so, letters from scores of people who write to the Archbishop in his capacity as chairperson of the commission, and some letters in representative capacity from institutions such as the Friend of the Victims of Helderberg, an organisation calling themselves FOVA, people who were enraged even about the fact that we are having this in camera, because there is a burning suspicion that once again the matter is being covered up because there's something to be hidden away, you can appreciate why we may have gone a little bit further in our probing in the manner in which questions were put by Dr Klatzow.   It was not intended to be any reflection on your integrity, it was intended to possibly cause you to reflect also, and for us it is in fact moving to hear you say you have not wanted to look on this incident, to a point where you have not even read any books that have been written on it.   It can only explain to us that you are a human being and you are aware of the allegations that have been made, and for us who have been entrusted with the duty to establish the truth, and we are not very successful in most cases, it is something that we have to do, even if it means dragging you into these hearings.   Believe you me, it's not something we do with relish or with glee.   We are endeavouring to find, in the interests of this country and in the interests of future government, if there was a group of people or some people who were involved in a tragedy that cost this country and very many other countries the sort of trauma that you also have been going through, then those facts need to be established, if it is possible, not for their own sake, but to make sure that in the future your children and my children can live in societies where deviousness should not be of a nature that lives can be sacrificed at the altar of political expedience, and if our inquiries are going in that direction and we prove that, then your coming here would not have been in vain, because you will have added in a way you cannot understand, a thread that, taken together with others, might bring us closer to finding out what exactly happened.  
 It's a long way of saying thank you for having come, and believe us when we believe that there are certain aspects that we think you can assist us with, we will officially communicate with you.
 For the moment you are excused, and I am sure we have no longer, or no more use for you.  
 Thank you very much.