Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-19

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, if this witness is going to stand down, I will have to ask all the questions leading up to my next question again tomorrow morning and we'll be in the same situation probably.  What - I do not have an objection if we adjourn at this stage, but I think I just want to ask her one more question because the questions that, the groundwork to ask the next question. But if the witness is really distressed I'm not going to stand in her way to take the adjournment and to relax.  I just hope we won't have the same situation tomorrow, and it will obviously take some time to get to the same point where I am now to ask that question.
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CHAIRPERSON: What about the proposal that we excuse her at this stage and then call another witness and then bring her in tomorrow morning, when she would have relaxed overnight?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I'm not going to be unfair.  If she needs the adjournment I won't stand in her way.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Mr Strydom - you've heard what Mr Strydom has said in terms of laying down the foundation to the questions which if we break now without him completing this line, he would have to take her through the same motions again.  Is it not desirable that he should finish this line and then we adjourn?  But if Ms Molete is not in a position to continue now, we will excuse her and then deal with another witness and we will deal with her tomorrow morning.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, she's not comprehending, she's not understanding anymore what Mr Strydom is doing.  I think if we start at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning she would have had a night's rest, she will be in a far better frame of mind than she is now.
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CHAIRPERSON: And perhaps what we should do is to lead the evidence-in-chief of the next witness.

MR STRYDOM: That will be in order.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you can commence cross-examination tomorrow morning.

MR STRYDOM: I accept that.

CHAIRPERSON: You accept that.  Yes, very well.

MS PRETORIUS: Chairperson, may I ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lowies?

MR LOWIES: I have nothing to say, I have no opinion.
I have no contribution we'd like to make, I fall in with whatever you decide.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS PRETORIUS: The only problem I can possibly foresee for the next witness is that is may be a part-heard by Friday when we adjourn and especially if being a victim I don't think it's fair to get the victim halfway and then adjourn for a couple of weeks and come back. I don't know, but if Mr Berger has no problem with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, that ...(intervention)

MR BERGER: She won't be part-heard.

CHAIRPERSON: ... that is the consequence which we'd have to live with unfortunately, the manner in which these proceedings are proceeding.
	Mr da Silva, do you ...

MR DA SILVA: I abide by the Committee's decision.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BOTHA: I abide by the Commission's decision.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mey?

MR MEY: I abide, thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MS TANZER: I also abide, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Why is it that when you're right in front of me I can't see you?  I think maybe you should wave a flag.  I suppose if you want to hide something you've got to put it right in front of the eyes.
	Very well.  Ms Molete?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: We understand and we are satisfied that you are no longer in a position to carry on with your evidence, at least for the time being.  We will therefore excuse you from the witness stand.  Will you return tomorrow morning for further cross-examination?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: We've lost a great deal of time.  I know that counsel come from Johannesburg and Pretoria, is there a possibility that we might start earlier than 9 o'clock, to make up for the lost time?

MR BERGER: Yes, we'll come early.

MS PRETORIUS: Yes, Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well okay, if counsel can just co-operate in that regard I would appreciate it.  I take it Mr Lowies, you'll abide with the decision of the majority?

MR LOWIES: Is the word for it "under protest"?  Yes, Chairman, I'll abide.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well.

MR BERGER: We'll make arrangements for Ms Molete to come by taxi because otherwise she won't get here earlier if she has to come by bus.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, half past eight, quarter to nine.

MS PRETORIUS: Half past eight is fine, Chair.

MR MALINDI: Yes, I support ...

MR BERGER: Half past eight it is.

CHAIRPERSON: Half past eight, okay.  Very well, we will then - will you make sure that you are here at half past eight tomorrow morning?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And your legal representative will ensure that you are here by then.

FLORENCE MOLETE: I thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MS CAMBANIS: Chair, may I excuse myself for a few minutes?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BERGER: My learned friend, Mr Malindi will lead the next witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  Yes, Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: Thank you, Chairperson.  Chairperson, the next witness will be Mrs Hilda Monokoane; M-O-N-O-K-O-A-N-E.

MR MALINDI: The witness will testify in Sesotho, Chairperson.

MR SIBANYONI: Mrs Monokoane, will you state your full names please.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sibanyoni.  Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Mrs Monokoane, were did you reside in June of 1992?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I stayed at Boipatong.

MR MALINDI: What was the house address in Boipatong?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: 544 Bafokeng Street.

MR MALINDI: On the 17th of June 1992, is there anything of significance that happened that you know of?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: There is something of significance that happened, I was attacked in the house.

MR MALINDI: What time did this attack take place, if you can remember.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I cannot remember the time.

MR MALINDI: Can you tell the Committee how this attack occurred when you first realised that it was taking place.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: The attack started whilst we were seated.  I heard the window breaking and I asked my husband: "What is taking place outside?".  We stood up ...(intervention)

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, we would ask the witness to take it slowly please.

CHAIRPERSON: Ma'am would you please speak slower so that the interpreter can have time to interpret what you are saying.  Do you understand that?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: Thank you, Chairperson.

MR LAX: Sorry, you were saying that you heard a window breaking, you asked your husband what's happening and you stood up to look at the window to see what was happening.

MR MALINDI: Whose window was breaking at that time, your window or neighbours?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: What was breaking were my windows.

MR MALINDI: Besides your husband were there other people in the house?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: Yes, Sir, there were others.

MR MALINDI: Could you please name the other people who were in the house.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: It was Moses Monokoane and Miriam Monokoane and Alicia Monokoane and Elias.

MR MALINDI: Are those all the people who were in the house?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct.

MR MALINDI: You say after uttering those words to your husband you stood up to look as to what was happening.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct.

MR MALINDI: And what did you, your husband and other members of the family do?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: At that time my husband stood at the passage to look.

MR MALINDI: And then what happened thereafter?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: Then a spear appeared at the door.

MR MALINDI: And after that what happened?  If you can relate the whole incident of the attack.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: They broke down the door.  They kicked the door inside.  It was a wooden door.

MR MALINDI: And then what happened?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: At the time they kicked the door I hid myself.