Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-11-15

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: The contact that we had was at a wedding, that is when he married the ...(indistinct) daughter, that is when I first saw him in Maseru.

MR VISSER: Can you remember when that was, what the date was, of that marriage ceremony?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: If I'm not mistaken, it can be around 1982 when they got married.

MR VISSER: Did you ever see him again after that?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: No, I never saw him again, the only person I met was my daughter.

MR VISSER: Who's your daughter?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That's Margaret.

MR VISSER: What's she got to do with anything?  Who is your daughter, what did she do?

CHAIRPERSON: That's the one that saw him again.

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: She visited there.

MR VISSER: Your daughter Margaret, did she go to Lesotho to visit Tax, is that what you're saying?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I don't know whether she visited Tax, or she just visited the place, I don't know.

MR VISSER: Well, I'll give you an opportunity to explain, I'm at a loss to understand the relevance of Margaret, unless I've missed out on something.

MR LAX: Did Margaret see Tax when she was in Lesotho?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, she told me that she saw him.

MR VISSER: Is that perhaps what you refer to in paragraph 6 of your statement at page 38 of the bundle when you say that you later learned, that's after he left the country to go into exile, that Tax had been seen in Maseru in the mid eighties?  Is that what you learned from Margaret, is that what you're saying?  Or from whom?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: No that one I heard from Zachariah.

MR VISSER: Alright, but the fact is you actually saw him in 1982, not so, in Lesotho?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR VISSER: Now let me just ask you this again to make it absolutely clear.  After the wedding in 1982, did you ever see Tax again in Lesotho?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: No I haven't seen him

MR VISSER: Thank you.  Those newspaper reports, appear to suggest that Tax was a supporter of AZAPO, does that accord with your knowledge?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Well, I don't know, I did not understand politics then.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Because you say in your statement in paragraph 5
"Tax left the country",
that's the Republic,
"for exile, to join the ANC in 1981",
that's how you understood it.  Is that correct?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: When he arrived at Maseru, he was welcomed by Zachariah Skwera and he told me that he was a member of the ANC.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Fine.  Now you referred to a funeral in Tanzania.  Is it the newspaper report that referred to a funeral?

MR LAX: No, no, you're right, she spoke about a funeral.

MR VISSER: I believe you spoke of a funeral where Tax was not present.

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is so.

MR VISSER: When was this funeral?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I don't know the year, but it was at a place called Freedom Square, here in Bloemfontein.

MR VISSER: The funeral was here in Bloemfontein?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes.

MR VISSER: Alright and whose funeral was it?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: We used to call her Old Maid Sejanamane, but she got married to Blom family.

MR VISSER: I'm sorry.  You know I'm trying to make it easier, but it seems I'm making it more complicated as I go along.  The person who died, was that a relation of yours?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, it's my husband's family.

MR VISSER: I see.  And where did he die, or she die?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Here in Bloemfontein at a place called Freedom Square.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Was it a man or a woman?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: She was a woman.

MR VISSER: I see.  You see, what confuses me and I'll tell you immediately what confuses me, is didn't you also have another close relation ...

MR LAX: Can I clear it up for you, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Please do Chairperson.

MR LAX: You see when she testified in Chief, she said that at this funeral at Freedom Square, she spoke to Zachariah who told her about something that happened somewhere else in Zambia, of another funeral in Zambia and that's where you're getting confused.

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That's correct.

MR VISSER: I accept what Commissioner and what the witness has confirmed.  Now I want to refer you then to page 39, paragraph 8.  That says that your second son, Philip Nkuntsi Sejanamane, also left for exile in about 1983/1984, is that correct?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Yes and I apologise to you, but I was confused, I thought that you were referring to his funeral in Tanzania, that's why I couldn't understand, for the life of me, how you got to Freedom Square in Bloemfontein.  But thank you.  Now are you sure that he died or were you told that he died in Tanzania in 1989?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I got this telegram that I have but it was not sent at my own address, I received it from this address that appears on the envelope.

MR VISSER: Would you mind terribly if we had a look at that telegram because we're very interested to see what that telegram says?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I do not have a problem, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Chairperson, perhaps to save time, could I ask for a short adjournment for us to look at the newspaper reports to see whether there's anything we have to put to this witness and to look at the telegram.  It may shorten proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.  We'll take a short adjournment.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Visser, have you looked at the newspaper cuttings and the telegram and I suppose this fax?

MR VISSER: Yes, Chairperson, I have.  We received a copy.  Could I suggest that you accept this as Exhibit F and I do have just one or two questions on this document to the witness.  Mrs Sejanamane, oh let me just put on my headphones, otherwise I might not understand what you're saying.  You say you received this telegram, is that correct?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And the dates on this paragraph in the fourth line on the left-hand side from the top appears to be 08/18 which, if that is the date, it would mean the 18th of August, is that how you read it?  You see, because I can't make out from my copy of Exhibit F, what the date stamp on the round stamp is, I'm not sure whether it will appear from the original.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malindi establish, because he's next to the witness.

MR MALINDI: ...(indistinct - speaking simultaneously)

MR LAX: Do you have the original?

MR VISSER: There might be a date on the envelope, Chairperson.  I seem to recall in past years when I received telegrams that there was a date on the envelope itself.

CHAIRPERSON: No Mr Mapoma, give it to young eyes, they will be able to see.

MR MALINDI: It's definitely in 89.

MR VISSER: Alright.

CHAIRPERSON: ... a month or a day there, no, no, on the envelope.

MR MALINDI: On the envelope Chairperson, what appears is 18/invisible figure and then 1989.

MR VISSER: Thank you Chairperson, I think nothing much turns on it, but I think we can assume prima facie that this telegram is either dated or was sent on the 18th of August 1989.  What I want to ask you, Mrs Sejanamane, is do you know who the person is that signed or sent this telegram?  It appears to me a person with the name of Sidiso Mefenyana.  Do you know who that person is?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I don't know him.

MR VISSER: But he gave his address, or a contact address as a P O Box in Lusaka.  You noticed that in the telegram didn't you?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, I do.

MR VISSER: Who did you assume sent this telegram to you?  Did you assume - let me ask you straight out, did you assume this was a telegram sent to you by the ANC from Lusaka?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I did not understand.