Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-12

CHAIRPERSON: How did you come to the conclusion that Tekere had been abducted?

J A VORSTER: Chairperson, the fact that Col Taylor had informed me that he could not prosecute the man due to insufficient evidence, led me to the inference that this man was being unlawfully detained.

MR VISSER: And if he had been illegally arrested and registered as an arrestee and if after that he had been killed, would there have been any problems?

J A VORSTER: Yes, there would definitely have been very big problems.

MR VISSER: So in other words, if Taylor said to you that he had decided that the man had to be eliminated, was that an indication to you that he was illegally under arrest?

J A VORSTER: It was an indication to me that he was unlawfully under arrest.

MR VISSER: And that is what you have referred to?

J A VORSTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: Very well, proceed.

J A VORSTER: After this briefing I took du Preez and Wasserman to a pine plantation where I pointed out a place where they could dig a grave.  It was already dark.  This place was close to a driveway to the garages.  I went back to the house where I discussed the matter further with Col Taylor.  Tekere was inside the house and the two of us spoke to each other outside the house.  We discussed Tekere further.  I want to emphasise it that I am not capable of recalling such aspects of the information that I have referred to above, which were given to me by Taylor during the briefing, where du Preez and Wasserman were present, as well as the session that I discussed with Taylor.
	After a while du Preez and Wasserman returned.  At that stage Taylor and I were inside the house with Tekere.  I can recall that Col Taylor nodded his head and that du Preez and Wasserman took Tekere outside.  Tekere was told that he would be transferred and he was blindfolded, his hands were bound behind his back.  After a while du Preez and Wasserman returned and said that it was done.
	The following day I returned to the safe-house to make sure that there were no signs of the events from the previous evening.

MR VISSER: If I could just interrupt you for a moment.  We have seen this very same pattern in the evidence with regard to the murder of Mr Cele where it was about a person who was actively involved in political violence, is that correct?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: There was also another person with whom the pattern was precisely the same.

J A VORSTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: Who was that?

J A VORSTER: That was Portia Ndwandwe.

MR VISSER: Yes.  It is a pity that these three cases could not be heard concurrently, but let us just leave it there.  From your recollection, can you tell the Committee what the sequence was of Cele, Ndwandwe and Tekere, or are you not capable of recalling what the chronological sequence of events was with regard to these three cases?

J A VORSTER: As far as I can recall, it was first Ndwandwe, I beg your pardon, it was Cele first, then Ndwandwe and then Tekere.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I'm favoured with an attorney who has the kind of mind that remembers dates.  I see him writing down dates here.  These dates are for Cele, it was July 1988, Ndwandwe was October 1988 and Tekere was towards the end of 1988, beginning of 1989, so it would seem that that would be the order.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR VISSER: There is a reference, however, somewhere in the papers, I'm not sure where I saw it, that Tekere was in fact murdered on the 7th of August 1988, but we've not been able to verify that date, Chairperson, but it would appear that those were the three incidents which revolved basically around the same situation and the same set of facts and they were all buried on the farm and my information is that those graves were all pointed out by some of the applicants and exhumations took place.  I see Commissioner Lax agrees with me.
	Yes, perhaps the family, if, well how would they know?  If the family does know a better date perhaps, they could clear the question.

CHAIRPERSON: You can carry on with your evidence.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Please proceed.

J A VORSTER: The acts and omissions which I committed, I did in the execution of my official duties, under the order of a higher officer, whose orders I was obliged to execute.  I did this as part of the opposition to the struggle and my actions were aimed against the supporters of a liberation movement.  What I did, I did in order to protect the interests of the Government and the National Party, as well as to combat the revolutionary onslaught.  As such I believed bona fide that what I did fell within my express or implied authorisations.

MR VISSER: Very well, we will discuss that further in a moment.  Mr Chairman, if you'll just allow me a moment.  In the additional bundle you would have noticed that there is documentation pertaining to a medico legal post-mortem report and there is also a report.  It is the TRC interview information, from page 3 onwards.  Perhaps, Mr Chairman, page 4 might be of some relevance.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the additional bundle?

MR VISSER: The additional bundle, yes Mr Chairman.  Page 4 may be of some relevance, where the person who makes the statement, Anna Sithole, describes Mr Tekere as a very politically active person since 1978, and that he was harassed by the police and he went into hiding and she identifies him by his code name as Tekere and she refers apparently, oh no, she says she was never arrested or tortured by the police, that's not relevant, but I just thought that we might point that out to you.
	Mr Vorster you then request amnesty in so far as you have associated yourself with it for the unlawful detention or deprivation of freedom of Mr Tekere and for your share in his murder.  Mr Chairman we did say at page 37, his abduction, but this witness wasn't involved in that, so that would fall away, it would be the unlawful detention and the murder and any such lesser offence which may emanate from the facts and circumstances of this case.  Is that correct?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Had you known the man, Tekere, before you say him for the first time with Taylor?

J A VORSTER: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And the information that you got about his political activity, if you had not been told by Taylor, you would not have known anything about him?

J A VORSTER: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You haven't been able to ascertain how it came about that Tekere found himself in the custody of Taylor?

J A VORSTER: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And to your knowledge nobody has thrown any light to you on where Tekere was originally arrested, or apprehended?

J A VORSTER: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all the evidence?

MR VISSER: That's the evidence from this witness, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

MR NEL: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

MR NEL: I've got no questions save to say that I just want to refer to the late Col Taylor's affidavit on page 4 of the original bundle.
Mr Vorster in the final paragraph, the final sentence Col Taylor says that he cannot recall, it was either at Verulam or Elandskop, we confirm according to your statement, that it was Elandskop.

J A VORSTER: That is correct.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you. Do you have any questions?

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair, just a few.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do.

MS THABETHE: Mr Vorster, I'm trying to understand what your role was in this whole incident.  Were you present when the deceased was interrogated?

J A VORSTER: No, Chairperson.

MS THABETHE: So what would you say your role was in the whole incident?