Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-14

MR TIPP: Mr Khumalo I am going to just ask you briefly to describe what you found at Lancet Hall?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: What I found in Lancet Hall, I found one person lying down near the entrance.

MR TIPP: Is that the entrance to the basement parking on the side of Lancet Hall?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR TIPP: Let us get back to Shell House. You returned to Shell House. In the course of the next period of time did you see various groups of marchers moving past Shell House? Past particularly the front entrance into Shell House on Plein Street?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Indeed.

MR TIPP: Could you give the Committee please an impression of their conduct? How did you see them in their behaviour?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: They were moving in groups. The first group was led by the police. When they came they were chanting, doing some mock attacks. Then we had asked the police to control them. Indeed the police have done that. Then they passed. Then the second group came. The second group when it came they were also chanting and making those mock attacks. Taking up out the placards. They were very provoking.

MR TIPP: Now Mr Khumalo it is common cause that the security guards never took any action against any of those groups. Is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And did you personally never feel the need to take action against them?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: No. We constrained ourselves. The situation was very, very bad.

MR TIPP: You have described also in your statement an incident where certain police officers were directing their firearms in the direction of Shell House and how some of the leaders went to speak to them. Is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR TIPP: I am not going to deal with that in any detail. I want to move on to the events that took place shortly before the shooting incident itself as they relate to you and what you did. Now would you tell the Committee please what your whereabouts were immediately before the main shooting occurred and what you did?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: We were near the Jabu's Bakery.

MR TIPP: What led you to go to that direction?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: We heard high calibre sounds of guns near the park station. That is what led us to that place.

MR TIPP: Was the sound of the firing of high calibre weaponry of concern to you?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Very much because prior to that we had the information that they are going to be armed near the park station.

MR TIPP: Once you got to Jabu's Bakery. Again Mr Chairman that is located on the north western side of the intersection of King George and de Villiers Street just to orientate the Committee. Mr Khumalo once you had reached Jabu's Bakery incidentally were you on your own or was Mr Zuma with you?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: I was with Mr Zuma.

MR TIPP: And what did you observe that took place there?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: There was a group which was coming through de Villiers Street from Wanderers. As they come one of the marchers who was wearing a red T-shirt ran to the corner and shot at us with a pistol.

MR TIPP: When you say corner, which corner are you referring to?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: The corner at the ...(inaudible) and de Villiers.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry.

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: The corner of Wanderers and de Villiers.

MR TIPP: That is on the western side of Shell House?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR TIPP: What was your reaction to this firing?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: My reaction to this firing I have told Zuma to move as quick as possible. Then I have returned fire. As he moved to protect him I have returned fire. So that they must never get a chance to shoot him.

MR TIPP: After that what did you do?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Then I ran after him. Then we have gone straight to Shell House, to the foyer where we reported the matter to Gary Kruser.

MR TIPP: What happened in consequence of that report?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: In consequence of that report Gary Kruser gave us the AK, gave me the AK and he escorted us to the corner.

MR TIPP: That is the corner Mr Khumalo of King George and Plein Street?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: King George and Plein.

MR TIPP: Could you give the Committee please some indication of the speed with which events were taking place at that stage?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: It was just matter of seconds, matter of seconds. Everything was very quick.

MR TIPP: Once you had got to the corner of King George and Plein Streets what did you observe?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: After some seconds the marchers, my view was very, I couldn't see further than Jabu's Bakery because of the pillars. Because I have taken a (...indistinct) position. My circle of fire and my observational point was from Jabu's Bakery up to Plein Street.

MR TIPP: And what then took place? I would like you please just to describe the events that then took place and the action taken particularly by yourself?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Then the marchers came out of de Villiers Street. Then one of them which I had seen at Jabu's Bakery he was carrying a pistol and he was shooting at the parapet, the people at the parapet. Then there was other gunfire which I didn't know where they come from.

MR TIPP: Mr Khumalo you have had some training. Can you tell the Committee in a built-up area such as that around Shell House with a number of high buildings does that make it easier or more difficult to locate precisely where a shot is coming from?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: It is very difficult to allocate the exact spot because of the echoes in the built-up area.

MR TIPP: Please proceed and relate what happened after that?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Then those people who were charging as they were charging Gary Kruser gave an order to VJ Rama to fire a warning shot. Then VJ fired that warning shot. And Mondli too have fired a warning shot. Then, but those people were coming right through and there was gunfire right through. Then Gary Kruser gave us an order to repel. Then we have repelled them.

MR TIPP: Now I want you please to detail a little more what your role was in the action of repelling this group? What did you do?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: My role was, which means my circle of fire this time was from Jabu's Bakery up to Plein Street. That was my circle of fire. The marchers I think there are two people who have passed to Plein Street. There was one woman she have passed because she didn't pose that threat and a man also he didn't pose that threat. They had passed. But those who were coming over to us because those who were passing we didn't care about them. But those who were charging towards us then we have repelled them.

MR TIPP: Did you with your AK47 fire shots at those people?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes I did.

MR TIPP: Now Mr Khumalo you set out in your supplementary affidavit that your legal representatives have explained to you subsequent to the conclusion of the inquest at which you gave evidence aspects of the objector ballistic evidence that was presented towards the conclusion of that inquest. Is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And you have set out in that supplementary affidavit a view that aspects of that do not support the description that you gave at the time of the inquest in respect of precisely how you fired.

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is right.

MR TIPP: Again I would like you please in your own words to outline briefly to the Committee what the essence is of those differences and what it means for the way that you fired on that day? Can you do that please?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: The ballistics have shown that, which means ballistics are in fact the scientific proven that I was not in control of my firearm as I have thought I was.