Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

JOHN MORGAN: She said they should go to a certain room in the back next to the jacuzzi, and indeed they went in, and she was there as well.  And Richardson as a prime leader insisted that they should not sit at a certain place because it is her seat. Then he said: "Who is Mrs Mandela because she is younger than me"?  They got inside, the four of them.  The other comrades formed a circle, and they were inside that circle.
 The first person who started assaulting was Winnie Mandela and assaulting Stompie Seipei, and the others followed as well, assaulting the rest.  They would leave them and throw them right in the air - and they called that system a jet something, and they will let go of them in the air and they will drop down on the floor.  I was present, I eyewitnessed all this, and I asked for the keys, and I was told I was at work, I should be quiet. And they were assaulted continuously, and I went to get the keys and I left.

MS SITA: Did you see Stompie again, sir?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, the following day I saw him.  I found him in a deformed state. His face was as round as a football, and I tried to help him drink some coffee and feed him bread as he was not in a position to help himself.  And I felt pity for the boy.

MS SITA: And when was the next time you saw Stompie, sir?

JOHN MORGAN: I also saw him on the third day, and I found that he was in critical conditions, and Doctor Asvat said to Mrs Mandela - Mrs Mandela asked Asvat to enlist help to the boy and assist him medically, and Asvat refused and said: "The boy should be sent to hospital".
 The fourth day I arrived in the morning and they were talking in English: "And go take that dog and go dump it somewhere" - I don't know which "somewhere" is that. I refused completely to do as I was instructed.  And I left. I went to the office in Orlando Station where we had our office. I end right there.

MS SITA: ...[inaudible] death of Maxwell Madondo?

JOHN MORGAN: Maxwell Madondo was one other who was working for Winnie, helping in the kitchen, preparing tea, and miscellaneous work.  And I don't know, it seems they fought with other boys. We heard in Orlando West from certain boys that: "Hey, the boy has died", and we decided to go there to see and when we got there we found Maxwell Madondo.  We were going to easterly from west. We looked at him lying down there and the police were keeping guard and we were told to leave. We left.

MS SITA: When you say "we", yourself and who else, sir?  (end of tape)
 ...[inaudible] So you are saying she accompanied you in the vehicle to go and see Maxwell Madondo's body?

JOHN MORGAN: She's the one who said I should accompany her to the scene.

MS SITA: Sir, do you know Koeki Zwani?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, I do know him, I do know Koeki Zwani.

MS SITA: Can you tell ...[intervention]

JOHN MORGAN: He's my neighbour. They reside the next street from where my house is.

MS SITA: What did she do at Mrs Mandela's house, sir?

JOHN MORGAN: She was a helper in the house, cleaning around but
on Christmas Eve I said to Koeki: "Let's go" - it was already in the afternoon, she had knocked off, and Mrs Mandela said: "No, leave her, we'll take her home". That was the last time I've ever seen Zwani.  
 And her family came to my house to find out as to what happened to her and I told them exactly what happened, that it was said she will be taken home and to no avail.

MS SITA: I've no further questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Hanif?
 There are some others who will throw questions to you.

MR VALLY: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
 Mr Morgan, you were one of the accused in the matter of the kidnapping and assault of the four youngsters, is that correct?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VALLY: Were you convicted?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, I was convicted for a year and that I should not be found guilty or - I was suspended in other words for one year and I went back home,  I never committed any atrocities whatsoever to date.

MR VALLY: What were you convicted of?

JOHN MORGAN: They said I was an accomplice.

MR VALLY: Accomplice to what?

JOHN MORGAN: Kidnapping.

MR VALLY: I think it's just kidnapping.

JOHN MORGAN: Kidnapping and murder.

MR VALLY: All right, we'll leave it at that. Let's move on.  I want to talk to you about an article that you published or that was published about you in The Sunday Times.  This was on the 12th of April 1992?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes.

MR VALLY: At the same time as the article that was published - I'm giving you a copy of the article now - at the same time the article was published you also gave an interview on the M-Net TV programme called Carte Blanche. Are you aware of that?

JOHN MORGAN: I am aware of that.

MR VALLY: The headline of the article reads: "Exclusive - Stompie Case Driver's Shock Allegations - How I Lied to Save Winnie", do you recall this article?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, I do.

MR VALLY: The basic thrust of this article is that you lied in your court case, is that correct?

JOHN MORGAN: Yes, that is correct.

MR VALLY: I first need to ask you why you lied?

JOHN MORGAN: I was trying to defend Mrs Mandela and protect Mrs Mandela because she was my superior, she was my employer, and I was trying by all means to protect her.

MR VALLY: Mrs Mandela when we questioned her in the Section 29 enquiry, she said that you were not employed as a driver by her, that you were merely a neighbour who helped her from time to time. What is your response to that?

JOHN MORGAN: I was employed as a driver, but when she states that, what was my duty?  What had I been employed to do? Because I was also driving this Volkswagen van. What was I there if I wasn't a driver?

MR VALLY: On page 13 of the second enquiry, the question was: "Do you know who John Morgan is"? The answer: "Yes, I know, John Morgan is my neighbour".  Question: "Was he ever employed by you as a driver?" Her answer: "He was never officially employed by me as a driver. He came home and assisted me whenever it was possible for him to assist".  Would you like to comment on these answers?

JOHN MORGAN: That is not true, it's a blatant lie.  I was always with her and her daughter as well Zinzi Mandela, and take them to the places where they wanted to go - even at night.   I wouldn't work for free, they were giving me an allowance.

MR VALLY: How long were you working for them?

JOHN MORGAN: I don't remember how many years, and age is taking its course as well.

MR VALLY: More than 10, more than 20?  2 years?  Can you give me a definite period?

JOHN MORGAN: Around 10 years.

MR VALLY: When I asked Mrs Madikizela-Mandela if you were ever employed by her, she said: "I have never employed Morgan, I have no facilities to employ anybody".

JOHN MORGAN: She employed me and she had a Volkswagen van - bakkie.

MR VALLY: When I asked whether you were employed elsewhere, she said: "I do not know if he was employed elsewhere He came home like all the other neighbours, and whenever I requested him to do something for me he did it".

JOHN MORGAN: No, she had employed me.  There was one time when we had a fight with Winnie, and she told me she will be discharging me, and she laughed - even Mandela laughed himself, she will never refute all of that.

MR VALLY: Going on to the trial that you were involved in.  Now, you've been given a copy of The Sunday Times article, is that correct?

JOHN MORGAN: Who gave it to me?  Which one are you referring to?

MR VALLY: The one I read to you earlier where the headlines said: "How I Lied to Save Winnie"

JOHN MORGAN: You mean this one?

MR VALLY: ...[inaudible]

JOHN MORGAN: What about it?

MR VALLY: ...[inaudible] about this article.  If you'll turn over ...[intervention]

JOHN MORGAN: Please ask me.