Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-22

UNKNOWN: My husband ended up in hospital.  It became apparent that this had affected him badly and he is still sickly today.  But even Monde cannot hear properly, because the police used to assault him and he never even got the opportunity to complete his education, because wherever he went, all the schools he attended, there would be this political uprising and the police would come and look for him and detain him.

REV XUNDU: How do you think this Commission can help you under these circumstances?

UNKNOWN: I haven't finished talking.  I haven't finished talking.  I haven't said what the cause was of them burning.
 I want the Commission to do this for me.  In the time when we decided to stop selling liquor, while we were in a 
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meeting, there were two nips of Gin.  These nips of gin were put before the Committee, the boycotting committee and Moodi who was living at New Brighton at the time, said that this nip had been bought at Batyi and the other one at Lalla Panzi and he and his Committee would not say who had bought them and where they had bought them.
 They just said that it was late already.  And I wanted the Committee to find out who had bought these nips and where because I was not selling liquor at the time.
 The Committee refused to tell me that who had bought the bought at Batyi and I don't know about the one at Lalla Panzi and another thing is before our place was burnt, Monde and Notandu were  in detention.
 I wasn't surprised by their detention because they were detained every time, but during all that time, I used to take care of the comrades.  I did not know that they would do something like this to me.
 While they were in detention the police released Andile Sishoba only.  Andile came to my house, Monde's father was there and Andile Sishoba said he was with Zola Majikela and another fair child, I'm not sure what that child's name is, but I think that child was with them.  And Andile said - I asked, how are you boy and he said that he had been sent by Monde.
 He said there are people that are staying in Hexigon that are being used by the police, that wear plastics.  I think it is a boy and a girl and what happens is when a comrade is detained, he would be asked do you know this one and if this person didn't know, they would just shake their head, because they didn't want their voices to be heard.
 And if he did know the person, he would nod.  I head 
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during the course of time, that this was Notandu and Monde, but he didn't want to say that to me.

REV XUNDU: Did you hear?  Did you say that you heard?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I heard from people that it was Notandu and Monde and he said that there were such people, but I did not suspect that because I would always see them with the others when I took food for them.
 The other women and children.  Monde then said to me that another child came to jail once and said we have burnt Batyi's place and now that we have burnt there, we have heard that Monde stays in Hexigon - that is where he is being kept.
 He is the one that is telling the police everything.  You know my house, I started building it in 1964, the one that has been burnt and I didn't even retain a brick or everything.  I finished, I completed building, started building in 1964 when Vuyo was born and I completed it in 1984.
 At my place I didn't have any electricity.  Electricity poles were put up by me with my own money.  My husband was working, but I did the most because a mother is the ruler of the home.
 The husband was working and he used to give me the money and I used to sell liquor.  When I completed this house, I had accounts.  This house had 10 rooms and outside toilets and a garage and a bathroom and toilet inside.
 There were 10 rooms.

REV XUNDU: Is this the one that was ...

UNKNOWN: This is the one that was burnt.  What was strange was that the comrades were looting the place, they were taking things from these bricks and everything.   People QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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were telling me this and I had reported it to the police and I would tell the police that there are certain people that are taking my things.

REV XUNDU: Why did the police not take any steps?

UNKNOWN: The police - there was no police station in the location, it had been burnt and there was no way.  Everything was just upside down.

REV XUNDU: Let's just go towards the end.  What did you say, what do you envisage the Commission doing for you?  How can the Commission be of assistance?

UNKNOWN: What I would like to say lastly is what hurt me the most is that these children, some of them ran away and some of them came back saying that they were in exile and they got top posts and they were not afraid of burning us and being seen by other people as well.
 Some would be, are now policemen, soldiers and body guards coming back saying that they are from exile, now in top positions.
 How is it possible that these people in these top positions that are now ruling over us, have done such things.  I would like the Commission to investigate these things.  And also you can see - the Government can see what it can do for me.
 I would just like an investigation into why this was done and I would also like to know where this story came from about informants.  This is what I would like to know.  I would like to know where the informants story came from, because I lived in the community, we loved each other, I used to get along well with anyone.
 And this came up during the time of the boycott and now that I had completed extending my house, it had to be burnt 
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and during the time we were there, we used to get, we have to get water from far.
 I am the one that made it possible for water, electricity and everything to be brought closer to us, even telephone poles.  Since 1964 I battled, I used to be in and out of jail for selling liquor.
 And now this happened, I would like to know who did this to me and why.  I don't think that there is anything that I can say that I should get, but I feel that you can use your discretion, because Monde was also disrupted in his school career, because he kept being detained.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Ma'am.

UNKNOWN: And also he doesn't hear too well and my husband was also severely affected by this.

REV XUNDU: Thank you very much, Ma'am.

BONGANI FINCA: Let us just hear from Monde if he has anything to say.

UNKNOWN: I am Monde.

REV XUNDU: I would like you to say what your involvement was in this and how you and your brother were involved in this and what happened from there.

UNKNOWN: From 1976 every youth of my age had reached a time when he had to be involved in politics.
 So all of those who are still young were also determined to be actively involved so in 1977 we then decided to be involved in the struggle and we were detained.
 A lot of us were detained.  Then it went on and on until about 15 or 17 were left in the jail.
 Then when it was time for the trial I and (indistinct) and Boy Mbanja and others went to court.
 I did go to appear on my day and I gave my testimony, 
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but I didn't give an impression that I was an informer, though I was a State witness.

REV XUNDU: Where was this hearing of the court?

UNKNOWN: It was in Grahamstown.

REV XUNDU: Then after you had testified, did they say you were an informer?