Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR KHUMALO: Could you please elaborate as to what Capt Masinga said which led you to believe that Romeo was about to be arrested, which must have threatened you to pursue this assassination immediately?  You must (inaudible) that you were the person who was running up and down to make sure that this assassination process does take place professionally and successfully.

DJ MKHIZE: I will explain this.  There was EN Masinga who was my commander, and MA Masinga who was Romeo's commander.  Let us now talk about MA Masinga who was Romeo's commander at the CID unit.  He is the person who called Romeo and informed him that he had knowledge that Romeo was involved in hit squad activities.  As they went on with the discussion and Romeo was questioning how he had come about this information, Masinga told him that Sgt Khumalo had telephoned him and told him that you, Masinga, have hit squad members in your unit.  And in the very near future there would be arrests of big fish that you wouldn't expect to be arrested, because this matter was being investigated.
	This then corroborated with the information that Sgt Khumalo was in the practice of taking certain dockets to the ANC leadership, such dockets which contained hit squad activities.
	That is how it happened.

MR KHUMALO: Could you explain to me why you could not make a clear distinction between these two captains in terms of your affidavit statement that you verified?  Because here there is no indication as to which Masinga you are talking about.  Now you are now giving me two Masinga's.  But you want me to believe that what you're talking about is MA Masinga, yet it's not indicated here in this affidavit statement.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Khumalo, I think there is, if you check when you are at para 85, from the last sentence, I think about three lines thereafter you will see that there is mention of a branch commander,
"... (it's Capt MA Masinga)."

MR KHUMALO: Okay, thanks.  Thanks a lot.  So the assassination was based on the reality that Romeo was going to be arrested, or on a suspicion.  Because as you are a policeman I believe you should have investigated that to come to a conclusion.

DJ MKHIZE: It was not for me to investigate whether what Masinga said, was true or not.  Capt Masinga as a police officer was not really in a position as far as I can see to speak about such sensitive matters in such a manner.  I am not saying that what Masinga told Romeo was the truth or not.  But what he said to Romeo confirmed the information that I have spoken about concerning these sensitive dockets.

MR KHUMALO: Mr Mkhize, so in other words you want to say to me that was just an ordinary suspicion because according to you, you did not investigate; you only took instruction.  So it could have been a mere suspicion.

DJ MKHIZE: I would not deny that.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) somebody else being assassinated.

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that happened.  But I explained the working of the hit squads.  It was not my job to verify the truthfulness or not of the instructions.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) that Capt MA Masinga was the head of that hit squad, or he was running another unit.

CHAIRPERSON: No, the Capt Masinga was the head of the CID unit in which Romeo Mbambo operated when he was not operating in the hit squad.  He was the head of the CID division at Esikhawini police.

MR KHUMALO: The person that you actually used to pull the trigger was not a member of the so-called Kwazulu police at that time?

DJ MKHIZE: No, he was not a member of the Kwazulu police.

MR KHUMALO: So what caused you not to take the initiative of pulling the trigger yourself?  Because you were driving this person to and fro to make sure that you catch my brother wherever he was travelling between the vicinity of Esikhawini.

DJ MKHIZE: It is difficult for me to explain why a certain person pulled the trigger and not another.  But the decision that was taken in the car at that time as to who would squeeze the trigger was not affected by anything.

MR KHUMALO: So in other words you could have pulled the trigger yourself.

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is true.  Because the instruction had not been given.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) that you did not pull the trigger yourself because you were part and parcel of the whole process.

DJ MKHIZE: There is nowhere that I am trying to excuse myself.  He could have been shot by myself or Romeo or anybody else, because it had already been decided.

MR KHUMALO: Because my brother was a trained policeman, and yourself as well; you were also a policeman and Romeo who was also a trained policeman, would you say the assassination of my brother was politically motivated or not, since you were all policemen?

DJ MKHIZE: We had never had a quarrel with Sgt Khumalo.  If you follow my statements correctly they indicate that we had a problem accepting that he was involved in such activities.  Therefore I am trying to explain that we did not have any grudge against him.  We did not have any quarrels about money, about cars.  There was no quarrel maybe about positions at work.  We didn't even have a quarrel about women.  There was nothing.  We did not have any personal quarrel with him besides what I've already mentioned here.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) information that I have, what would your comments be on that one?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, that would be a bit difficult to answer.  If you say you've got information, what information?

MR KHUMALO: Apparently just before the burial of our brother we were then informed that there was once a conflict between you and him, and as such your colleague that you were trying to help, by all means to get my brother assassinated was involved in that conflict.  Do you remember that?

DJ MKHIZE: No.  That is not the truth.  I never had a quarrel with Sgt Khumalo at all.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) here during these proceedings, should it happen that it is contrary or maybe it is inconsistent with the evidence that is going to be led by your colleague Romeo today or tomorrow or whenever, who do you expect us to believe?

DJ MKHIZE: What I have written here is what I know happened.  I think God also knows what happened.  It might happen that some of the things that I wrote here do not necessarily corroborate because some of the things that I know may have been limited by things that I did not know.  And I therefore am trying to say that I was not all by myself here.  This involved people; my superiors.  And we should also look at other things that led to the killing and assassination of these people.  Because some of these reasons that may have led to the killing of people may not have been as genuine as we thought they were.  But yes, I disagree that I had a quarrel with Sgt Khumalo.  And I want to believe there is no police officer at Esikhawini that can testify to my having had a quarrel with Sgt Khumalo.

MR KHUMALO: In the event Mrs Mbuyazi, Maj Langene or one of them had been at loggerheads, were once at loggerhead with my brother which had nothing to do with politics, but it is this thing, they then decided to make use of that opportunity to engage you.  Because you are very quick in putting things in place, in affecting things; putting things into action.  Because you do not worry yourself in doing the investigation to find out whether that thing is true or false.  Would you say the assassination was politically motivated?  Because you have now just said before us here you did not worry yourself about doing the investigation; you simply carried out the instruction given to you.  So had it been the case that the people who gave you the instruction had their own personal things, personal objectives to pursue other than politics or far outside politics, but it's just because you were very quick in implementing things, then they gave you instruction.  What would you say on that one?