Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: It is more than three weeks.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: .

MR STANDER: I've got no questions to the witness, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR STANDER: .

MR BRINK: No, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR BRINK: .

ADV DE JAGER: So you don't know whether he was involved in an accident with this car?

UNKNOWN: I know that he did have an accident, I don't know as whether it was with this car or with another car, I am not sure.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chairman, I was given these documents during the tea adjournment.  I have asked to see the original and it has not been given to me.  I have looked at the entries that have been made, copies of which had been made and I need to take instructions on them.
	As I would also need to inspect the original of the documents that had been handed in.

CHAIRPERSON: Are the originals available Counsel?

MR BRITZ: Yes, Mr Chairman, I might place on record that I was requested for the originals when we started with the hearing after the tea adjournment, they are here Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: How long do you think you need, Mr Memani?

UNKNOWN: The originals are here with me, I have them.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chairman, I think I will need some more considerable time to deal with these things because it involves going through the book and going through the entries with Mr Ngo, asking him to explain them.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean by considerable time, an hour, a day, a month?

ADV MEMANI: I would certainly not give myself less than an hour to take these things.

MR BRITZ: Mr Chairman, I may just place on record, we spent some considerable time on those documents and we haven't even gone through them properly in the way we would have wanted.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, what I was going to suggest is we take the adjournment at this stage until two o'clock, which gives Mr Memani quite a lot of time to have a look and he can then inform us what his position is.

ADV MEMANI: As the Chairman pleases.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now adjourn until two o'clock to enable Mr Memani to have a look at the documents that we have been referring to.
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CHAIRPERSON: Mr Memani, I understand from what you told me that having had an opportunity of looking at the books, you are satisfied you will not be able to deal with them and this witness today.

ADV MEMANI: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I must say that having had an opportunity of looking at them myself, I agree with, I can see your difficulties.
	I have had an opportunity of discussing this with the representatives of the other parties and I understand these gentlemen all (indistinct).  However, there are certain formalities that I would like to deal with before we adjourn and the first of these is to ask Captain Koja, if he formally hands in the documents which had been referred to?  That is three pocket books which belonged to Mr Ngo, the South African Police  Mamelodi Single Quarter Register and the occurrence book, which is marked 4/87 on the cover.
	You do confirm that those are the documents they hold themselves out to be and do you hand them in?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I agree.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, and Mr Memani, I understand you are in a position to make formal admissions that the pocket books are Mr Ngo's pocket books and that the handwriting in them, is his handwriting?

ADV MEMANI: Admissions are so made, My Lord.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, and furthermore that the occurrence book is the occurrence book of the Mamelodi barracks?

ADV MEMANI: That is correct, My Lord.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I propose to have copies made of certain of these documents, which will be available for circulation.  They will go to Mr Memani first, for him to work on and then they will be available to others.
	I do not think it necessary to have copies made for each and every one of the parties, but there will be copies available.  I will make sure that the TRC keeps in touch with the representatives in that regard.
	And that being so, we have come to the end of this hearing.

MR BRITZ: Mr Chairman, there is just one aspect.  We would like to obviously have the opportunity to work through the documents in detail as well.  May I just request that we record that if there is anything that we want to add in respect of Captain Koja's evidence, that we may recall him before cross-examination starts.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, certainly, we have not started cross-examination yet, you will be given an opportunity to put in further anything else that you would wish to.

MR BRITZ: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And this brings us to an end of this hearing.  I think it has become abundantly obvious to the parties that there is no hope of finishing it within two days, which is the maximum we might have next week, but whether we could even enjoy that time, is a little uncertain.  I gather certain of the legal representatives thought that they were appearing elsewhere, whether they are or not, is a little uncertain, but in any event, there is no point in coming back here for a two day hearing, we then have to adjourn and I propose now to adjourn this hearing to the same venue on Monday, the 19th of January 1998.
	I gather that that date is suitable to the parties and it is our intention that we will then proceed with that hearing until it has been concluded.
	And I trust the parties will all make themselves available.  Is there anything further anybody wishes to say?

ADV MEMANI: Merry Christmas Judge.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, the same to all of you.

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