Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-13

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Mrs Msawuli to come forward.  Pardon.

MS MAYA: He is a man.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mnyute okay.  Mr Mnyute please come forward.  Thank you.  
Welcome Mr Mnyute and Mrs Msawuli.  I will start with you Mrs Msawuli to help 
you take an oath.  Please stand up.

MRS MSAWULI: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mrs Msawuli.

MR MNYUTE: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Sir.  I will now hand over to Mr Sandi to lead you with 
questions on behalf of the Commission.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Let us start with Mrs Msawuli.  Mrs 
Msawuli, you are here to talk about Mr Msawuli who was shot in 1990.  Is that 
correct?

MRS MSAWULI: Yes, that is correct.

ADV SANDI: Was Mr Msawuli your husband?

MRS MSAWULI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: What are his full names?

MRS MSAWULI: Mtyanti Vusumzi Artwell Msawuli.

ADV SANDI: Let me now hand over to you to tell us what happened on this 
particular day.

MRS MSAWULI: I was at work.  I was on night duty.  There was, our niece was 
there, Sheila, my daughter and Mr Galelekile was also there.  On the 29th of March 
1990, it was on a Thursday.  President Mandela was going to be in Bisho on the 31st 
in the stadium.  I was on a night shit in Mount Cook Hospital.  My husband was 
working for the Hector Foundation.  I heard a one year, three months baby.  During 
the day I looked after the baby.  At night my husband was looking after the baby.  I 
would give him a report about what had happened during the day.  I went to work, my 
husband was not at home.  I was worried, because my child was not well at that time.  
 At about one in the morning I received a telephone call from the matron.  They 
requested me to go to the office together with one person I was working with.  We 
asked the security man to accompany us to the office.  When we got to the office they 
said that Sheila was alone at home.  The baby was sick, your husband was not at 
home.  He attended a meeting.  Pindile and Andile are here to take you home.  They 
asked me whether I knew Pindile.  I said, yes, Pindile was my neighbour.  They asked 
whether I knew Andile.  I thought that Andile was their niece.  I said, yes, I do know 
Andile.  We were taken to the car.  I asked them why are you here.  They said that 
they told my matron.
 At home the lights were on.  I went through the kitchen door.  I saw this child 
staying in bed.  I asked where is my baby.  My baby was lying down and we heard 
that, they told me that my husband was shot and he died.  People said that my husband 
came back home at about nine.  His friend brought him home, Monde Mkhunqwana.  
They were studying together social sciences.  They use to go and study in Sandiswe 
School.  He left my husband at home.  My husband took off his jacket and his shoes.  
He was watching television.  He heard a knock at the door.  It was Andile together 
with another young man.  I found out later on that that young man was the cadre.  
 At about 20 past nine there was another knock at the door.  My husband went 
to the kitchen.  Our kitchen door had two doors.  He asked who are you?  This person 
said that I am Monks.  This Monks is Monde Mkhunqwana.  He then opened the 
door.  There was a quarrel at the door.  My husband saying that why are you selling 
me out?  He then said that, Comrades, let us not fight, let us talk.  There was a 
gunshot.  The second one struck him and he fell down.  Andile went to the bedroom.  
He took out a knife from his pocket, because he thought these were the police.  He 
tried to hide under the bed.  The other young man just stood in the dining-room.  My 
one child was 13 years old at the time. 
 My child saw a man wearing a balaclava and a black jacket.  This man was 
shooting my husband while he was lying down.  After that he left and the other one 
took a mat outside and they covered him with this mat.  This young man told my child 
to go and close the door.  My child then closed and locked the door.  He phoned their 
grandfather, Duno Bamsouli.  At that time he was in Pretoria.  He then phoned the 
neighbours.  This young man was still there.  They did not see him leaving, leaving the 
house.  After that the police came and they took him.  They cleaned blood spots.
 When I arrived at home there was no blood.  Everything was clean.  There 
were no photographers.  The following morning Monde Mkhunqwana came.  We 
were in the bedroom at that time.  He said that I was together with Saule the whole 
day and the person who knocked at the door identified himself as myself.  I dropped 
him at about nine.  When I was going back home at NU16 I heard gunshots and 
Monde Mkhunqwana was the one saying this.  The police came in the morning saying 
that we must go to the police station.  I made a statement.  I thought that the people 
who killed my husband were the police.  I said to them I suspect Sitilie Golo, because 
he was the one harassing us at home.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Msawuli, was there anyone arrested by the police?

MRS MSAWULI: Nobody was arrested.  I went to the police now and again asking 
whether there was anybody arrested.  They said no, but they said that they will try and 
find this person.  Again in 1994 I wrote a letter to the Minister of Justice telling him 
about this incident.  He asked me where this happened and I told him.  I did not get a 
reply after that.  Again last year in April I went to the Truth Commission to give out 
my statement.  I said that because he was working for the ANC the ANC people will 
help me to find the perpetrator.  
 Again I visited the investigators of the Truth Commission saying that I had 
information. My daughter-in-law had information.  Patricia Msawuli said that Andile is 
willing to come forward to tell people in public who did this.  There were four people 
and he named, mentioned them by their names.  Again I said that there were rumours 
about a certain person who shot at home.  He was a cadre and I told them to try and 
investigate this person so that we can find out the truth.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Msawuli, how old is Sheila?

MRS MSAWULI: Sheila was born in 1975.  She was 13 years old at the time.

ADV SANDI: She was the one present during this incident?

MRS MSAWULI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: In your statement you stated that you would like this issue to be 
investigated?

MRS MSAWULI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Do you have any other requests except this one?

MRS MSAWULI: My request is that my husband was the breadwinner.  He was also 
supporting the community at large.  He would take children to school and he was 
involved in community sport.  I have two young children and I am raising them alone.  
It is very difficult to be a single parent.  I would like the four men who did this to come 
forward and I would like the Truth Commission to help me regarding this matter so 
that these people can come forward and tell us the truth, why they killed my husband.  
Maybe I will forgive them.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mrs Msawuli.  Maybe you will be asked questions.  I will 
hand over to the Chairperson.  Thank you.  Mr Mnyute, you also have a complaint in 
connection to a 1990 incident.  Is that so?

MR MNYUTE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: You say that there were pamphlets about you.  What were they stating 
and what was the source?