Special Hearings — Legal Hearings — 1997-10-27

MR MOLDENHAUER: : Thank you very much Mrs. Chair. Thank you that you put the record straight in that regard. The magistrates are willing to testify but it did not come to their notice. I was only invited to attend and also take part in the discussion. Otherwise I would also take the opportunity to testify. I will be very brief.
 Regarding today there's only one problem that I really have with this whole scenario that was placed before the commission. And that is that we are in 1997 and since 1994 the law fraternity are dragging their feet and it seems to me that very little has been done since 1994. And the biggest problem that I have with that is a change of attitude. And as I ask on Monday evening the community and also the truth and reconciliation committee must please help so that we can speed up this process and start with a new South Africa also in the legal system. And the most important thing is the change of attitude. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Moldenhauer. The gentleman from the legal resource centre?

MR FRANCIS: Thank you Chair. The hearings or some of the submissions were somewhat disappointing in ...
 Most of them had a military background. They were part of the system. The system was devised to entrench you know white power. And I think if one takes it from that angle I think one should not really be disappointed in their display today. But I think what was somewhat disappointing to me was that emphasis was placed basically on political prisoners and I think it came out from the submissions that 4 or 3 to 4 percent of the cases that were being dealt with by the AG was mainly in political matters. 
 But I think what didn't come out here was that there was a large number of black accused who was the victims of gross human rights violations. We, that didn't come out and I would you know give examples where one would have expected them to have spoken about the different bail you know. Or how bail was applied in practice. You find that say if a white person was accused of shoplifting and a black person was accused of the same offence. In most cases you'd find that the black accused would be required to pay bail in an amount of about R300 and the white person would be granted free bail. And in most cases I think you would find that the attorney general, the prosecutors would ask for much more larger you know bails for black accused. 
 I think the same also applied in matters of rape. Where if the victim and the accused were both black the matters would then be transferred to the regional courts. Where I think we know, Ja to the regional courts. But if the victim was white those cases will be referred to the high courts and in most cases I think we all know that the death penalty would then be imposed. 
 So I think to say that the attorney generals didn't play a role I think was just a, I think they weren't candid with the commission. And I think it was also alluded to that if in matters where there was police brutalities those cases would be referred to the AG.'s office. And I think we had an experience or we dealt with a lot of civil claims against the police and most of those cases got settled but there were no criminal prosecutions. And if there were criminal prosecutions I think the prosecutions were pathetic. Because in most cases the police officers would be found not guilty.
 So I think it was disappointing in that sense that too much emphasis was on the high profile matters and I think people forgot that the bulk of the people I think who really faced the system were not even people I think who were involved politically. And I think that was the disappointment that I had. But I think the other black members I think who testified about the systems I think supported what we basically knew that it was an unjust system. The attorneys generals played a crucial role in the upholdment of the whole system.