Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-12

MR STRYDOM: So the first time when you came out of your house now to look in that direction, that's the first time you saw the Koyokos and they were at that position close to the footbridge, moving slowly?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: And the attackers, where were they?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: They were moving along in the veld and they were proceeding towards KwaMadala Hostel.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but were they in the vicinity of the two Koyokos or were they behind them or in front of them or what?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I do not know how to explain that.  Whether they were in front or next to them, I cannot comment on that.

MR STRYDOM: And there are no Apollo lights in that veld area, it's a dark area, isn't it so?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The map indicates that there are no lights there, doesn't it?  There are no lights.  There are lights only at Frikkie Meyer, but they light up the area very well, I can see what's happening around there from my house.

MR STRYDOM: What kind of lights will you find at Frikkie Meyer?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There are different lights, some are yellow, some are some other type.

MR STRYDOM: Street lights, is that what you are referring to?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I'm not referring to the lights you find in the township, they are the sort of lights you find in town.

MR STRYDOM: Now do you maintain that from your position in the township, you could see what was going on close to the bridge, in the dark?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: We were watching, we could see people walking along.  The area was lit up there.  Even though there were no lights in that open space, but you could see, still see people.

MR STRYDOM: Ja.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, the witness had also said the one Koyoco was near the footbridge, the other one had already turned.  If one looks at my learned friend's map, that road does turn at the footbridge and the witness said the other one was further up.

MR STRYDOM: Can I just have my map back, I just want to see.  I want to put to you that from the township to Frikkie Meyer Boulevard is approximately 350 metres.  Now I don't know if you know about metres, but I would say about three-and-a-half soccer fields, a distance of three-and-a-half soccer fields.  You can fit them in the length.  Would that be a correct estimate?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: You are the person who measured the place, how am I supposed to know about it?

MR STRYDOM: From your house to Frikkie Meyer Boulevard is not close, it's a long distance.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is not a long distance.

CHAIRPERSON: Just give me that distance again.

MR STRYDOM: 345 metres.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, and this is from where?

MR STRYDOM: From the side of the township to Frikkie Meyer Boulevard.

CHAIRPERSON: Which side of the township?

MR STRYDOM: From Mthembu Street - from the western side of the township to Frikkie Meyer.

CHAIRPERSON: What point on the western side, from what point on the western side?

MR STRYDOM: No, it's just a general - seeing that the township ends with a straight line, it can be from any point at the edge of the township to Frikkie Meyer.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, to what point?

MR STRYDOM: If you take a straight line from the edge of the township, from Mthembu Street to Frikkie Meyer, then it's 345 metres. - approximately.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: When you saw the two Koyokos more-or-less in the area of the bridge, where were you standing?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I have to repeat myself 10 times.  We were standing outside and we were watching.  There were shapes moving.  After you have been attacked you will not just look anywhere else, but at where your attacker was going.

MR STRYDOM: I just want to know, did you stand in front of your house or did you move from your house in the direction of Mthembu Street?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: We were outside.  Mthembu Street would be in front and there was an open space around there and this is where people were walking.

MR STRYDOM: I want to put it to you that there were not two Koyokos at that point, as you described it.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I hope you know better.  What I know is that I saw two Koyokos and some were outside the Metal Box and as I stated yesterday, there was a light that was fired upwards and then the area was lit up and after the people had proceeded towards KwaMadala, the Koyokos regrouped and they also proceed in that direction.  If you want to say those were not Koyokos, it is up to you.

MR STRYDOM: I want to put to you that the attackers did leave Boipatong from Bafokeng Street and they did move across that field towards that small bridge, but they were never close to any Koyokos.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: So what do you want me to say?  As I told you, they left Bafokeng, proceeded towards the open space and the Koyokos were right up in front.  They had travelled along Umzimvubu and as they were proceeding, the attackers were proceeding, they were going towards them and they went from there towards Frikkie Meyer and then further on towards the hostel.

MR STRYDOM: Can you say the attackers made use of that footbridge to get onto Frikkie Meyer Boulevard?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Some of them did use the bridge, but a few did not, they went another way towards the robots.

MR STRYDOM: So if you say a few, you say the majority of the people crossed the bridge and only a few went up towards the robots, is that what you are saying?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is what I'm saying.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the majority of people use  - did you say the majority of the people used ...

MR STRYDOM: The bridge.

CHAIRPERSON: ... the bridge.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is the way that they used.  Yes, a few went up towards the robots.

MR STRYDOM: When did you see the other police vehicles close to the trees? - that's now in Nobel Boulevard or close to Nobel Boulevard.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: One of them had been, the one that had been parked at Amatola and another one had been parked under a tree and they regrouped together with a smaller vehicle.

MR STRYDOM: I just want to know, in relation to the time span or the time when you saw the other Koyokos close to the footbridge, now did you see the other vehicles after that, before that or simultaneously?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I first saw the vehicles that were outside Metal Box and when that, something was fired, I was able to see the other two.

MR STRYDOM: The other two, where, which ...(intervention)

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I've already mentioned that they were travelling along Umzimvubu.

MR STRYDOM: Could you only see the other two vehicles travelling in Umzimvubu when the flare, or a flare or something was fired?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I don't know what to say now.  Please listen carefully, please listen carefully.  I don't want to repeat this.  Two Koyokos were parked outside Metal Box, together with a smaller vehicle, I think it is an Nyala.  There were three vehicles there.  Two were travelling along Umzimvubu Road.  In total there were five vehicles.

MR STRYDOM: Where was this flare fired?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: They alighted from the Koyoco.  They were standing on the ground, that is white people, and they fired this flare.  We were watching as they did this.

MR STRYDOM: So white people fired something into the air that lit up the area, is that right?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: All I want to know is where these white people were when this was done.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: What do you mean?  I don't understand you.

MR STRYDOM: Where were they standing?  Did you see them standing at a certain place and they fired a flare? - we call it a flare

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: They were standing next to the Koyokos.