Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: And you've also given us full details of the medical treatmentwhich you received. I have here a copy of the account from Philonomi Hospitalin Bloemfontein after your operation, so we have all those details. We wouldalso like to get from you the letter which you have just referred to. We don'thave that in our files, and we would like to get a copy of that after you'vegiven your evidence. Someone can make a photocopy of that for you, and we willfollow it up. In fact I've just been reminded by one of my colleagues that wedo have that letter, and we will use that letter to investigate the case whichthe captain said was finalised in 1995, and we will convey to you what we findthere. Is there anything else that you would like to say about this incident?Perhaps you can  tell us what was happening in Selosesha township in Thaba Nchuat the time. Why were there armed policemen -

MR LYSTER: sorry, armed soldiers moving around in Casspirs? And let mejust clarify one thing. Were those soldiers from the South African Defence Forceor from the Bophutatswana Defence Force?

WITNESS: Those were the Bophutatswana soldiers.It was a stay-away, but I didn't know because I was at work. I had gone to mycourse, to do my courses. I wasn't aware that there was something happeningat the location. When I came back that's when the whole thing happened. Thatwere there barricades I only realised when I was taken to the scene. I neversaw what was happening outside.

MR LYSTER: The friends that you were with, the friends that you had beenon the training course with, were they also assaulted, or were any of them shot?--- Yes, they were assaulted severely. I met them before I came to this TruthCommission. I told them that I was going to tell my story. They said I shouldgo on. To them all this belongs in the past. I told them that I should go tothe Truth Commission because I can't work as I used to. I can't discharge myduties properly because my foot is always aching, it's always giving me problems.I realised that I had been disabled or somehow crippled.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... they want to make a statement to the TruthCommission all they need to do is to go to our office in Bloemfontein, and infact later today I will make an announcement as to the address of that office,and there will be statement-takers who will take their statements. They're notobliged to, but we would very much like to hear from them. And just to get clarity,you  /were shot

MR LYSTER: were shot in your foot or your knee? Can you just confirm?--- I was shot at the knee.

MR LYSTER: You can show us if you like. And did the bullet go right throughyour leg? Thank you. I'll just ask my colleagues if there are any questionsthat they'd like to ask you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Just one question. I hoped that I was goingto hear more about your brother-in-law who was a police, who came with the police.I'd like to hear the reaction really apart from taking you to the hospital.Your brother-in-law is a police. What did he ... (incomplete)

WITNESS: He didn'tdo anything.

MR LAX: Mr Molebalwa, just for the record, that letteryou've got is actually a letter which confirms that the Attorney-General declinedto prosecute anybody for the offence involving your shooting, is that correct?--- Yes, that's correct.

MR LAX: I just want to clarify one question regarding your health.You are saying here that you have to absent yourself from work from time totime, and that you need medical treatment. Is it just about your knee?

WITNESS: Yes,it's because of the knee.

MR LAX: At the moment are you getting any treatment from the doctoror from the hospital, ongoing treatment?

WITNESS: No, I normally go to special doctors,and they would give me medication and I would go back to work.

MR LAX: Well, what we would like to have is also to get the recordsof your treatment.

MR LAX: /MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mr Molebalwa. You suffered a
terrible indignity, being shot in your own house while relaxingwith your friends, and it's also terrible that you were shot not by thugs, butyou were shot by Government employees paid for by your own tax money. 
Yesterday I made some remarks about the Defence Force in thiscountry, and how it was used by the previous Government to harass people andto suppress them, and we are very thankful now that by and large, and in mostparts of the country, the Defence Force has transformed itself into a very differentorganisation that is here to protect all South Africans, and to protect thenew institutions in our country.
We thank you very much for coming here today and for tellingus this story. It helps us to put the picture together that we are obliged toput together when we report to the Government, and your story has painted avery vivid picture of what was happening in Thaba Nchu in 1990. We will be intouch with you once we have followed up the case, the details of which you havegiven us, and as soon as we have those details we will come back to you again.Thank you again very much for coming in.

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much for coming in today,Mrs Sesele. Please put the earphones on so that you can
- are you able to hear me? Can you hear the translator speakingto you?

MRS SESELE: Yes, I hear them.

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much for coming in. As I understandyou live in Gauteng, is that right? Are you staying in the Free State?

MRS SESELE: I stay in Vereeniging.

MR LYSTER: And this story that you will tell us todayrelates to the death of your daughter, who was killed in 1987, is that correct?

MRS SESELE: Yes, that's correct.

MR LYSTER: Before you give your story can you pleasestand and take the oath.

MRS SESELE: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much. I am going to ask mycolleague, Dr Magwaza, to assist you in giving your evidence. And it's clearthat the memory of the death of your daughter is very, very upsetting to you.Please remember that you can take your time, and you can interrupt your evidencewhenever you feel that you cannot go on. Dr Magwaza.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Sesele, I know that losing a child isone of the difficult things that any parent could face. It was so tragic thatyour child should have been caught in a conflict which it didn't even understand.We know your pain is very profound, and we are here to acknowledge it and supportyou. Could you tell us more about your family at that time? Do you still - tostart with, do you still live in the same address where this happened?

WITNESS: No,not now.

DR MAGWAZA: Okay. Could you tell us about your family?

WITNESS: (Incomplete... end of Side A, Tape 10) ... at about past six I heard gunfire outside. Thegunfire was so strong. I went outside to go and look for my children. When Iwent out I met two children with their friends. I asked them where Lani was.That's my daughter's nickname. They showed me a certain direction that theywere chasing each other towards that direction, and she was driving a bicycle,she was cycling. It wasn't even a long distance from my gate. I saw her bicyclethere. When I looked a little bit further I saw her lying face down on the ground.I took her, I turned her up. I thought I was going to resuscitate her. I liftedher chin up. I saw a big hole in her neck. (Pause)

DR MAGWAZA: We understand your pain. We really do.