Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR MBAMBO: I would not really know, I will leave it to this Committee to conclude about that but Sepiwe used to receive money.  Firstly, if you are a policeman you do not receive your salary directly from the Minister of Police and you don't earn your salary in cash so I do not know why he gave him the money.  I did not ask or enquire because I understood that he was given the money because of his activities for the IFP.  I did not concern myself to ask why he received so much money.

ADV MOTATA: Before you proceed Mr Ngubane,
	Mr Mbambo, you told us that this was your best friend actually and as Mr Ngubane has put it to you or asked you rather, you said you were inseparable at some stage, did I understand you correctly?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

ADV MOTATA: Now as your best friend and you accompany him to Ulundi and he comes with such large amounts of cash, didn't you ask: "Friend for what purposes were you given these monies by the Chief Minister, Doctor Buthelezi"?

MR MBAMBO: I did not ask him because what he said was that he had money.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you Mr Ngubane.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you.
	When you Mr Mbambo, you thought that he had received this money because of his work in the IFP, do you agree with me that Mr Vuyani was not the organiser in the IFP but he was actually the hit man?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interpose again Mr Ngubane?
	When Mr Vuyani went to Ulundi with you - I can't remember the period, I think it was pre '91 when you both went to Ulundi and he came with this stack of money that he had received from the Chief Minister, was he already a hit man to your knowledge for the IFP?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, he already was.

MR NGUBANE: I'll move to another point now Mr Mbambo.  You say that you were involved amongst things in the coverup where criminal acts had been committed by the members of the hit squad, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And is it correct that you were largely responsible for transporting corpses of ANC people that had been killed to Zwelezane in order for post-mortem examinations to be conducted?

MR MBAMBO: The company AVBOB will fetch these corpses from the police station and I would be present when the post-mortem was conducted.

MR NGUBANE: And did you know Doctor ...[indistinct].

MR MBAMBO: Yes, I knew him well.

MR NGUBANE: And he conducted most of the post-mortems on the ANC people at Zwelezane, is that right?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, he conducted post-mortems on all those that fell within the KwaZulu jurisdiction.

MR NGUBANE: At that stage did you participate in the coverup when the post-mortem examination was conducted?

MR MBAMBO: No, I haven't been.

MR NGUBANE: So you wouldn't know about the allegation that for example, Mr Daliwe, there was no proper post-mortem examination done?  You wouldn't have any comments on that?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR NGUBANE: Do you know if anyone of your hit squad helped in any manner in the commission or the irregularities when the post-mortem examinations were conducted?

MR MBAMBO: No, I don't know of anyone.

MR NGUBANE: Now, do you recall the ANC rally that was in 1991 at eSikhawini, November 1991?

MR MBAMBO: I hadn't arrived at eSikhawini by that time.

MR NGUBANE: Now this rally which you talked about yesterday which was in August 1992 where Prince Gideon Zulu was present, as far as you were aware was it the first rally of the IFP at eSikhawini?

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Chairperson, if I can intervene.  I think that rally was February and not August '92.

MR NGUBANE: That is correct.  Oh sorry, I'm quoting another incident, thank you very much.
	That rally where Gideon was present in February 1992, was it the first rally of the IFP as far as you are aware?

MR MBAMBO: It was the first rally that I attended of that magnitude.

MR NGUBANE: I see, but there were many rallies that taken place prior to that big rally?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Did you learn that after each and every IFP rally that was held at eSikhawini, people belonging to the ANC were attacked?

MR MBAMBO: Before and after.

MR NGUBANE: So because of the hugeness of the rally in February 1992, there was going to be huge trouble, there was going to huge attack on the ANC people?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: You have testified that that rally was interrupted by the ANC person who shot at the Inkatha members who were at the rally, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Had that person not fired a shot at the Inkatha rally, do you think that the damage that would have been caused to the ANC people would be far larger than what occurred after the rally?

MR MBAMBO: The rally was actually intended to wipe out the entire ANC at eSikhawini, from Emakandeleni to Eshonobeli hostel.

MR NGUBANE: So that shot that was fired at the rally interrupted the plans and the objectives of the IFP rally, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: You have testified about this rally that Prince Gideon Zulu was carrying a rifle, a 303, is that right?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And there were many people who were gathered there, as far as you were aware did these people emanate from a single area or were they brought from various areas?

MR MBAMBO: They came from different areas in KwaZulu Natal and some came from Johannesburg.

MR NGUBANE: Were most of them armed?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, most of them were armed.

MR NGUBANE: If someone were to suggest that that rally was a mere peaceful rally, what would be your comment?

MR MBAMBO: I would say that person is telling a lie.

MR NGUBANE: Other than the violent objective of that rally, as far as you were aware was there anything else that was going to be discussed in that rally except to embark on violence?

MR MBAMBO: No, what I knew was that the ANC was going to be attacked and forced out and after that people gather at the J2 Stadium and Prince Gideon Zulu would address the people.

MR NGUBANE: Oh, so his address to the rally would have been  after the attack had taken place?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Were there any specific people targeted or was it just a random attack that was going to be undertaken?

MR MBAMBO: ANC leaders were known at eSikhawini and therefore they were going to be killed one after another, Willis Nkunu for example but it was known that because they were going to start from Emakandeleni and proceed to Eshobeli Hostel and proceed to J1 they would have completed everything when they got there.  Willis Nkunu was attacked but fortunately he was no longer there.

MR NGUBANE: I know it's an incident that took place some time ago and there were quite a number of people involved in the attack of Mr Willis Nkunu's house but as far as you are aware were there any specific people that were directed specifically to attack the house of Mr Willis Nkunu?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, there were people.

MR NGUBANE: Can you still recall them and can you tell us who they are?

MR MBAMBO: It was Nglagane Mpumatengua, Lucky Mbuaze, Bernard Mlambo, Constable Mkwanazi, those are the ones that I can still remember.

MR NGUBANE: Is it correct that those are the people that actually and finally participated in the destruction of Mr Nkunu's house?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Now from what you have said, correct me if I'm wrong, I gather that the mode of operation was that certain people were going to attack certain targeted houses - and the people whom I shall refer to as the ordinary people in the rally, were going to attack at random and destroy all the houses, was that mode of operation?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Now speaking about rallies, you mentioned extensively and gave evidence on the ANC rally that was on the 22nd of August 1992 where Chris Hani and Cyril Ramaphosa were present, you gave us some extensive evidence on that, do you remember?