Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-08-01

CHAIRPERSON: This is the application for amnesty of B F Mbuyazi, application number 346/96.  The Committee hearing it is myself Andrew Wilson, Mrs Khampepe and Mr Potgieter.

MR WILLS: My name is John Wills, I'm appearing on behalf of the Applicant.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: J M Mpshe for the Amnesty Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, application of B F Mbuyazi, the applicant he is here and the victims are here Mr Chairman.  May I explain first before I hand over to my learned friend concerning the victims Mr Chairman.  I was in contact with those who are herein present today, all the gentlemen seated in front except one asking about the absence of the female witnesses who gave evidence at the trial Elsie and Nomsa in particular and the response I got is that they had a meeting at home and since it is very far it was decided that the gentlemen, that is, the male folk should be here to represent the families because they travelled a distance of eight hundred and seventy kilometres coming this way.
	Those who are present are Dumisani Mthembu who is the husband to Filani Mthembu, no the husband to Ida Mthembu as well as the son Tufelo Mthembu who is deceased and then we have again Alfious Komete who is the son to Evelyn Dlamini, so all four, all three deceased are represented by the male folk.

CHAIRPERSON: So, I understand the women mentioned have notice of the hearing and have elected not to be present.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is so Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Should it become necessary to hear their evidence then arrangements will have to be made.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes Mr Chairman, without jumping too soon, after having read the record which, the transcript which I received this morning I am of a strong view, very, very strong that the evidence of the two women would really be necessary to rebut whatever may be told but I discussed this with my learned friend that perhaps we may start with the Applicant, finish his evidence and let them close the case and then we postpone it so that I secure the presence of the women, particularly Elsie.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that could be done fairly because there is a Judgement which refers to the evidence the women have given so you can put
that version if necessary, to the Applicant.  It's not a question of not knowing what's going to happen and I don't see there'd be any prejudice to the Applicant, in fact it would be to his interest to get the thing started.  Do you agree Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Yes Mr Chairperson, I think we must get the application commenced but in the spirit of facilitating the truth, I will not oppose any postponement should Mr Mpshe require to call the women folk who were at the scene.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I hand over to my learned friend Mr Chairman, thank you.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: (sworn states)

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee I call the Applicant.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mbuyazi, will you please stand up so you may take an oath.  May you stand up please.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Mbuyazi, you are here today because you are applying for amnesty in respect of a matter for which you have been convicted in the Supreme Court.  You were convicted on the 23rd of September 1991, do you recall that?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I remember.

MR WILLS: Is it correct that in this court case you were convicted of three murders and one assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm and one assault common.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Mbuyazi, is it correct that you are applying for amnesty in respect of these matters here today?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Mbuyazi, how old were you at the time these offences were committed?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I was eighteen.

MR WILLS: And how old are you now?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I'm twenty five years old.

MR WILLS: Now, is it correct that as a consequence of your conviction in these matters you were sentenced to an effective term of twenty four years imprisonment?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

MR WILLS: And is it also correct that you have been in prison at Waterval Prison since the date of the Judgement that is, in September 1991?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Now some six years at this stage.  Mr Mbuyazi, how do you feel about the incident or the killing of these women?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I'm deeply disturbed because that was not my intention.

MR WILLS: And how do you - have you got anything to say to the victims that are present here today?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes.

MR WILLS: Can you say that?  They hear, this is an open hearing.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I would like to say to them and their relatives that I ask for forgiveness because what I did was not my intention to kill someone therefore I would like to ask forgiveness for all the things that I've done.

MR WILLS: Is it not true that you've requested me to try and facilitate a meeting between yourself and the victims sometime soon in order to, for you to speak to them and to apologize for this matter?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean when you say you did not intend to kill someone?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I didn't intend to kill however because of the situation in the community, I had to.

CHAIRPERSON: You do admit that you stabbed all three woman and that you killed them?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: That you stabbed them repeatedly?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I repeatedly stabbed them.

CHAIRPERSON: In very vital areas, through the heart, through the brain, do you agree?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I wouldn't say exactly to which part of the body I stabbed because it was dark and also the knife that I was using was a very dangerous knife because it was a very long knife.

CHAIRPERSON: Reports were handed in at your trial.  They were admitted by you by your council acting on your behalf that admitted the correctness, didn't he?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: They produced a knife that I used, in court.

CHAIRPERSON: We have before us the admissions made on his behalf at his trial as Exhibit G, page 16 of the papers.  It is quite clear the correctness of those reports was admitted.

MR WILLS: Yes, I confirm that that is in fact the case.  Mr Mbuyazi, I just want to explain before I continue with my evidence that this is the Truth Commission and the purpose of this hearing is that you must just be, feel completely free to tell the truth and exactly what happened at that incident.  That is required of you in these proceedings.  You mustn't be frightened of anything, we are here to find out the truth.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I do understand.

MR WILLS: Now after you made an application for amnesty, in fact fairly recently you wrote a letter to the Chairperson of the Amnesty Committee on the 23rd of July, dated the 23rd of July 1997 from prison whereby you withdrew your amnesty application.  Is it correct that you still want to proceed with this amnesty application?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I wish to continue with my application for amnesty.

MR WILLS: Why did you write this letter?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: I was afraid that maybe if I appear before the Commission my family relatives might be attacked.

MR WILLS: Family relatives?  Right Mr Mbuyazi, what ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: Sorry Mr Wills, can we just take it up with him?  Why do you think that your family relatives would be attacked by your appearance before the Truth Commission?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Because the situation in my area, I will say it's not safe to be in that area.

CHAIRPERSON: How long has that been the position?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Will you please repeat the question for me?

CHAIRPERSON: How long has it been an unsafe area, for how long?

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: It's a long time because it's a rural area.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) your application was originally due to be heard in February of this year, wasn't it?  You were notified of that fact.

BHEKI F MBUYAZI: Yes, I was informed.