Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-03

MR MALAN: Just to respond to the question I want to know what your involvement was, whether you were in leadership of a youth organisation or the UDF itself in 1986 when this incident that you talked to us at length, when that took place.  Sorry to interrupt you but I want to get to my need at the moment.

MR MAHLANGU: Yes I was the Chairman of the UDF, Kwaggafontein branch.

MR MALAN: Was this at the time when you were abducted by the alleged Mbokoto members?  Was it at the same time?

MR MAHLANGU: It was before I was subjected by Mbokoto to that slaughter house because we were working underground at that time.

MR MALAN: You say - another question is asked in the statement.  It asks of you what was your organisation's programme of action at the time.  Do you remember such a question?  Your answer, can I read it for you.  You say
"The programme of action was to fight or cripple the vigilante group which was called Mbokoto by that time".
Was that the action programme of your organisation?

MR MAHLANGU: Yes, that is true.

MR MALAN: Now can you tell me then if you say to fight or cripple how would you fight them and how did you try to
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cripple them, your organisation?  You don't have to answer these questions if you feel it may incriminate you.  I just want to tell you that you don't have to answer it if it incriminates you.  But if you could shed some more light upon this question because it seems to me from the statement that maybe the Mbokoto guys took you out because they were responding to something.  I am not sure.  Can you tell us, are you prepared to tell me something about this?

MR MAHLANGU: We were trying to protect ourselves by forming this organisation.  The reason for them to abduct me it was because I was spied.  One of the students who were with at that time was able to spy me and was able to monitor my particular activity because at that time we have started with the formation of UDF but we didn't know who was monitoring our political activity at that time.

MR MALAN: Mr Mahlangu I am sorry to come back to this.  Can you explain to me what do you mean when you say my organisation, the UDF at the time, its programme of action was to fight or cripple Mbokoto.  What do you mean by that? To fight or cripple them.  Can you give us examples or are you not prepared to respond?  You don't have to but if you are prepared can you shed some light on this to me.

MR MAHLANGU: Not exactly to cripple or fight.  Our aim was to try to protect ourselves which are the things which we are able to do ourselves during that time.  The only thing which they would do was to force us to be members of Mbokoto.

MR MALAN: Mr Mahlangu let me just give you a little bit of an understanding of why I am forcing these questions.  In terms of the Act we are obliged to find out what were the circumstances at the time, what were the different
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perspectives and motives, what did which group do, what
really was the bigger picture.  Now you give evidence about the Mbokoto people taking you away on your own, torturing you, giving you a tough time, beating you up.  You were a leader, you were chairman of the UDF branch there at Kwagga.  We had a number of other witnesses today who talked about the youth, and they implicated the youth, on abductions, killings, necklacing.  You say in your own statement our programme of action was to fight or cripple but when I ask you you simply say to protect ourselves.  I mean what did you do to protect yourself?  Do you have any knowledge, can you help us?  Maybe even confidentially, not here, to give us a bigger picture of specific action.

MR MAHLANGU: I prefer to tell you in camera.

MR MALAN: That is very kind, I really appreciate that because we need the information and that is why I told you that you don't have to answer in public.  But if you would be kind enough to, when we see each in an in camera situation please share with us so we can get the bigger picture because we need to report to the nation so that everybody can understand.  May I then at this stage thank you very much for coming to the stand.  Also for your openness and your frankness.  We will certainly, if time allows, and it being occasioned for us, we will meet again.  At the moment we will study, as Dr Ally has said, what you have given us and we will follow through on that side and I personally look forward to spending some more time with you to just brief me more about getting to an understanding of the bigger picture of the conflict.  I really appreciate that and thank you very much.  You may step down.