Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

WITNESS:   No, it's a neighbour's house where we watch TV.

MRS GCABASHE: How far is the place?

WITNESS:   It's very close, and the surname it's Dumisani.

MRS GCABASHE: He sat there and watched TV, and what happened?

WITNESS:   They said that he left the place at about half past seven.  We heard that while he was sitting at home people knocked at his place.  He opened the door.

MRS GCABASHE: Where was this happening?  At the place where you were residing or where your father was?

WITNESS:   No, at my father's place.  Then my father talked to the people who knocked at the door.  They said that he must dress.  They took his torch.

MRS GCABASHE: Was it at night?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was at night.

MRS GCABASHE: Did your father have a torch?

WITNESS:   Yes, he did have a torch.

MRS GCABASHE: What was this torch for?

WITNESS:   During that time it was winter, so the torches were normally used like walking around at night.  They talked to my dad.  They went outside, and after some few minutes they came back in and shot him.

MRS GCABASHE: Where did they shoot him?

WITNESS:   At the place where he was residing with my elder mother.  We heard in the morning that he has been shot.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you said your elder mother couldn't come and tell you about the news because she was also taken away by these people.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.  /They took

MRS GCABASHE: They took her that night, and she could only tell us the news early in the morning, the next morning.

MRS GCABASHE: Did your mother tell exactly what they did to her?

WITNESS:   Yes, she told us that they took her to a faraway place and just left her there, and they told her that she must go back.

MRS GCABASHE: Does it mean that your father was left dead at that house?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was.

MRS GCABASHE: You said at the place Ntungwane it was an IFP stronghold.  Do you know anything about your father's political affiliation?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was an ANC member.

MRS GCABASHE: How long had he been in the ANC?

WITNESS:   For a long time he's been an ANC member.

MRS GCABASHE: What happened after you heard that your father had been killed?

WITNESS:   I went to a neighbour to call police.  They started photographing him before they take him into the police van.

MRS GCABASHE: Your other mother didn't see the people who killed your dad?

WITNESS:   I won't talk much about that because she also passed away.

MRS GCABASHE: How did she die?

WITNESS:   I don't know.

MRS GCABASHE: It means therefore that you won't know the people who did this or wherever they come from?

WITNESS:   I will say that's true, but they mentioned one name whom I can mention his name at the moment.

MRS GCABASHE: No, if you don't want to mention his name it's okay, you don't have to.  After the police have taken the pictures did you open any case?

WITNESS:   Yes, they took statements, but they did nothing.  No, the police just took a statement and we were not called to court and we just buried. Did you get your father's death certificate?   ---  Yes, we did.  We got it from the police station.

MRS GCABASHE: What did the police say?  What was written in the certificate?

WITNESS:   I didn't examine it.  I don't know what was there.

MRS GCABASHE: Was there any inquest conducted to find out as to what happened to your father?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  At that time like I wasn't concentrating much thinking about what could be done, but I was thinking as to what happened.

MRS GCABASHE: Therefore it means from that time you didn't know exactly what happened, you don't have any information?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MRS GCABASHE: Was your father working at that time?

WITNESS:   He worked before and he got injured and he left the job.  He was not working any more.

MRS GCABASHE: Was he receiving any pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was getting pension from work.

MRS GCABASHE: After he passed away did your mother get any benefit from that pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, she got some money, but I don't know how much it was.

MRS GCABASHE: Your mother, is she working at the moment?

WITNESS:   No, she is not working.

MRS GCABASHE: And how do you survive since you are all studying, you are at school?

WITNESS:   We are helped by my aunt.

MRS GCABASHE: What is her name?

WITNESS:   Her name is Mrs Shezi.

MRS GCABASHE: Is she the one that's helping the whole family?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MRS GCABASHE: You said you would like if you can get bursaries to continue with your eduction, is that true?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true. Yes, we hear all your evidence, but we still have  to ask you more about your other brother or sister who you said is psychologically affected.  Does he or she get any benefits?   ---   No, he doesn't stay at home.

MRS GCABASHE: Does he know that your father passed away, and does he really understand exactly what happened that your father passed away?

WITNESS:   Yes, he does.

MRS GCABASHE: You said he is psychologically affected.  Did you ever try to contact the welfare department to help you in this regard?

WITNESS:   We didn't try any assistance.  Nobody ever wanted to try this.

MRS GCABASHE: Can you start now and try to sort of get some help?

WITNESS:   I don't think that's going to work because we think he has been bewitched.

MRS GCABASHE: So, if this thing was done by people or the witch why aren't you trying to get help?

WITNESS:   Oh, unfortunately we don't have the money to get assistance.

MRS GCABASHE: Since you have arrived alone where is your mother?

WITNESS:   She is at home.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you agree with your mother that you can give a statement before the Commission?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did agree.

MRS GCABASHE: We have heard you, Peter, and all the difficult times you have gone through, and we can see now that you are the one who is bearing the responsibility at home.  This is a difficult situation for you and we feel for you, and we believe that there could be a solution in such a situation.  All we're trying is that all the information that we have before us we will place before the President of the country, who is going to decide as to what could be done.  However, with regard to the child you said who is psychologically affected, we would like to ask you to try and contact some psychologist or psychiatrist to get some medical help.  Please don't leave him or her like that and saying that he has been bewitched.  Just try to take him to doctors.  They might help you.  We would like to thank you, and I am taking you over back to the MC.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... protection.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Do you feel that what you have said here, or what you are saying here, may cause you to be placed in some danger?

WITNESS:   No, I still feel fine because I haven't made mention of any name here.

COMMISSIONER: Now, you said earlier in your statement that the people that killed your father wanted to take him to go on a camp, is that right, a night camp?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Was that something that was going on a lot at that time in Murchison, that people were being called - the men were being called to go on camps?

WITNESS:   Yes, they will forcefully take people to the camp.

COMMISSIONER: Was that being done by which party, the ANC, or the IFP, or both, or ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   Inkatha.

COMMISSIONER: Because we heard evidence earlier on today from another man, an elderly man by the name of Mr Mthethwa, who was called - forced to go on these night camps again and again, and eventually he refused, he said that he didn't want to go on these camps, and he was shot because of that.  Do you feel that this is also what happened to your father, that he was shot by people who were trying to force him to go on camps?