Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

MR P DU PLESSIS: And also to give you a legitimate base to work from, from there you would then execute your operations?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And the red plan would then be the activation in terms of the operations against the enemy?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And with that you confirm what has already been said in terms of the recruitment of unconscious agents?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: I'm not going to cover all of that again, but you then indeed after you completed that course, took certain steps to establish a cover for yourself?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What did you then do in terms of the establishment of a blue plan cover?

LEON A MAREE: Well, I established a front company for the export from South Africa to other African countries, electronic appliances, computers, pocket calculators, watches, etc.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You now said that you established a company, was this a formal company?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What was the name?

LEON A MAREE: It was Lema, L-E-M-A, was the name of the company.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did it stand for something?

LEON A MAREE: Well, it is the first two letters of my name and then my surname.  The company I established in Johannesburg, funding was approved for the establishment of this company by the Defence Force.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was this then an official request for funds that you had to do through documentation?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Can you recall what type of funds were made available to you?

LEON A MAREE: At a certain stage, R40 000 was made available for the company.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What would you use it for?

LEON A MAREE: Well it would be the buying of furniture to furnish the offices.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And to get personnel?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct yes, for the first month or two.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And did you then use those funds?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I did, some of it, but my plans changed, I did not buy furniture but I started renting furnished offices.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was this now in a centre where there were offices and also furniture and also personnel?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Where were the offices?

LEON A MAREE: They were in Park Town in Johannesburg and I then gave back the rest of the money until I needed it at a later stage.

LEON A MAREE: So if I understand you correctly, you made a monthly withdrawal and rather than using the whole lump sum at the same time.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: When you activated this company, was it a business?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, it was a business.  I did business and I also embarked on a - because it was a new area, I'm a policeman, I do not know anything about business and I thought if I had people around me who knew about it, I could learn from them, that's why I started with a very small company.  I then did that and after a few months I started with these things that I exported.  I started making money and then I got a partner to assist me in it.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So you then indeed, to put it this way, you had a bona fide business?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was the idea of this whole system that you would have a believable cover or was it only a door where there's nothing going on behind it?

LEON A MAREE: I understood and later I went into it a bit further, that it was very important to have a good foundation, a very good blue plan.  To get access you need, if somebody asks you, you must seem legitimate.  If somebody comes to your office, it must seem as if there's things going on and I tried to do this to the best of my abilities.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So it is a question where in the community you want to establish yourself as a businessman, it's not just a front door, you must indeed run a business and people must trust you doing it and you then did it?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, that is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: At the, or during this initial term from January to March, we also heard evidence that there were basically provinces given to the different members of Region 6 on the ground floor level, that was yourself and Mr Botha and you had to concentrate on these areas?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But you were not always applied in these areas?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that KwaZulu Natal was given to you so that you could also establish yourself there and that would be the province on which you would focus?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Why was this done?  Is there any specific reason for this?

LEON A MAREE: Well, because I went to school there and I grew up there and I knew Natal and I assume that was the reason.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But out of your evidence before, it seemed that if you were to ...(indistinct) as a detective or policeman and you did not work in Natal.

LEON A MAREE: It's true, I knew the area but I've lost contact with a lot of the people there, but I went back to look up old friends and to make contact with them again.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.  Did you also extend your business activities?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I also established a company in Durban that provided goods to ships coming in and once again I got a partner to run the business to give me the freedom to move around.

MR P DU PLESSIS: He did not know what was going on?

LEON A MAREE: He was completely unconscious, he did not know what was going on.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And was this once again a normal branch or office?

LEON A MAREE: It was not the same type of work as the first company. I provided goods to ships that came into the harbour.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Can you still recall the name of the company?

LEON A MAREE: Capall, C-A-P-A-L-L.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was it once again a formal company?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You say that this company did indeed run the business and did do business.  Did you make use of the funds?

LEON A MAREE: No, the Lema office in Johannesburg, I just took one or two months of their profit to make use, to buy furniture.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So you were running the Lema business at a profit?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And you used that money to create the company in Natal.  If I understand you correctly, it was not against the rules of the CCB, it was indeed the policy of the CCB that you will have a legitimate business, you will establish this business from which you can then draw a salary or that you can make a living with it and you were supported in this, that you were going to make a profit in it and make use of it?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.  I did run it in terms of the profit, but it was not the purpose to get a salary from it, but I got a salary from the Defence Force.

MR P DU PLESSIS: It wasn't a factor however, this is now from the profits of the company?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But you had to make a profit otherwise the company would not exist.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Just to come back to what you have already said to us.  You spoke to us about CAPALL, the other company that did business, to come back to Lema, this company you say did exports to what country?

LEON A MAREE: Well, it was Zambia, Swaziland, Botswana, African countries around us.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did this include Namibia?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Botswana?

LEON A MAREE: Namibia, Botswana, Swaziland and Lesotho.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Zimbabwe?

LEON A MAREE: Zambia, not Zimbabwe.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.  Did you personally, in order to further your exports, did you travel to these countries?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What was the purpose of it?