Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

CHAIRPERSON: . . . . .

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mama, we are going to ask you to take an oath.

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: (Sworn duly states).

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you Mrs Vena and we thank you for coming before this Commission despite that you have got a problem with your walking.
 We are now going to hand you over to Ms Tiny Maya who is going to question you about certain incidents. Thank you.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairman.
 Mrs Vena, I greet you. I would like you to help me with this statement. I would like to explain before anything else. We saw you walking slowly and painfully, could you explain to us that is this slow movement is connected with the reason why you are here before this Commission.

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: Yes.

MS MAYA: According to your statement they say you were arrested in July 1, 1986 at 2.00am. I would like you to tell us about who you are until you come to day when you were arrested.

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: It was during the State of Emergency when I was arrested. I used to be active in the Women's Political Organisation.

MS MAYA: What was the name of this Political Organisation? What do you actually mean by saying you were working?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: I was active as a woman in the Women's Youth League.

MS MAYA: When did you join this organisation and why were you arrested?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: I started in 1976 which was the year when the children were protesting against the Bantu education.
 We formed a parents committee and I was a member and we later formed the Uitenhage Women's Organisation.

MS MAYA: Now, you say on the day of your arrest at 2.00 in the morning there was some people who were present there whose names you know. Who were these people and what did they do to you?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: There was a security policeman namely, Mthetheleli Vuyelwa who is now late and a Rino Nopesi and Masiba and a white security policemen.

MS MAYA: Who was this white security man?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: It was on a rainy day. At that time we were sleeping and I heard a loud noise next door, then I said to my husband there is trouble because all these people have been harassing me all the time.
 I heard my name being mentioned in the . . . . (inaudible) yard they were inquiring about where I was living and then I heard some noise on top of the roof of the house. Next to my house lived a mechanic, so they used some of the pieces from there and they threw them on the roof.
 They were waking us up, calling us out, "wake up, wake up". They called out my name "Nondzuzo, wake up, wake up Nondzuzo, you know what you have done, you know what you are", and then they knocked at the door, kicking the door. I woke up. Though I did expect all these people, they had all along been harassing me and I knew that this was my day. I knew they were going to collect me. 
 So we opened the door and they came inside and they asked me to take my washing rags and this was said by Vuyelwa Mthetheleli and they asked me to point at one Sierra that I liked and get into any of those. They were even saying you can see these are posh cars, you have never been in any of these posh cars now this is the chance to get into one and so I got into one Sierra and came here at Church Street.
 We went inside, I was following these police and I will ask the Commission not to - I am scared to mention the abusive language they were using, so I will ask the Commissioner to pardon me not to mention about this. 
 So, Gerber who was the head of the crime stop, a white man as we were going up said "we are going to beat your big backside" - he said this in Afrikaans and I could see he was very rude. There were many of them following me as we were going up. There were some Black policemen like Vuyelwa Nopesi and Masiba amongst them.
 When we got to the top, Vuyelwa read to me the reason why I was arrested and he said, "we black people together with our government were working together" and Nopesi referred to me as the Chairperson of the street committee and Vuyelwa said I was the vice-president of the women's organisation, then I said "yes, I was".

MS MAYA: What did they do to you in that office? When they put you in, what did they say to you?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: There was a rod, an iron rod that they placed at the back of my neck and some sparks came out and I screamed and they said "I am going to die" and they said "Yes, you are going to die, you must speak the truth". They said this in Afrikaans. I was scared of these sparks because I didn't know what affect it was going to have on my neck.

MS MAYA: How long did they place this rod on your neck?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: It was for about six minutes that this rod was placed on my neck.

MS MAYA: Thereafter, what did they do?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: Vuyelwa then explained to me and I said to him, "I hear what you are saying, but as a mother, if I have given support to children, is there anything wrong with that" and then Vuyelwa said, "Our government does not recognise what you do as blacks".
 I was angry and I asked "Who has recognised that government" and then he said, "There you are you do all these things and Nopesi said, "You see this liar of a Chairperson, she is the one who convenes all these meetings", then I said "Boetie", then he said "I told her that I was not a liar, but I was vice-president, I was a member of the Women's Organisation as well". Then he asked who were the other members of the street committee, I said I didn't know who were the other members and he insistently asked me but I said I didn't know because I did not want to be an informer. I just want to be all by myself there and I was not prepared to divulge any information.

MS MAYA: How long did they keep you there?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: Well, you mean the interrogation?

MS MAYA: Yes.

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: I would say they interrogated me for about 15 minutes.

MS MAYA: How long did they keep you in custody?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: After that Vuyelwa said 180 days I should be kept in custody like Albertina Sisulu.
 Vuyelwa said I should be arrested for 180 days. Masiba took the fingerprints and said you are going to be in jail for quite a long time, so I went to Rooi Hell which is the North End prison.

MS MAYA: Were you jailed there for 180 days?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: Yes.

MS MAYA: What happened?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: As we were in custody were you given manual work. We were given bad food to an extent that I even fell ill as I was still there I had stomach problems, I collapsed. I was given tablets called "the buffin".

MS MAYA: After the 180 days custody did they lay any charges that would lead you to appear in court.

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: No.

MS MAYA: When did they actually release you?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: They said it was the end of the State of Emergency, so I could go home.

MS MAYA: And then when did you fall sick?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: After my release because we had been scrubbing floors, I had problems with my legs, I had severe headaches and then my health was affected. Judy Chalmers asked me to see Dr. Blackburn. Though I first went to the SACC to get a form that would make it possible for me to see Dr. Blackburn who gave me a letter that referred me to the provincial hospital.
 I said to Dr. Blackburn, "This provincial hospital discriminates so I may not be attended to", then she urged me to go there and then I went there and then of course they didn't help me.

MS MAYA: Then, were did you get assistance ultimately?

VICTORIA NONDZUZO MAKINANA VENA: Dr Pillay helped me.

MS MAYA: How long was it after you had been released?