Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

MS MKHIZE: Thank you Mr Mabena.  In your case we will oscillate between questions which we are wanting to know more about the history of Tembisa as well as your own personal exposure to human rights violations.  Can you tell us a little bit about the Black People's Convention, its activities, its mission and vision and how it landed in serious problems with the security forces?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: I think the Black People's Convention was an organisation which was really conscientising people, especially Black people to understand themselves.  As you are quite aware there was suppression.  At some stage we have seen especially Black women using cream to be White.  And also stretching their hair that they should look like the Whites.  I think the Black People's Convention's duty was to conscientise people to say as Black people they are
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 T MABENA
okay with the colour of their skin and also they are okay with their hair.  It was to conscientise are people.

MS MKHIZE: As an organisation were you involved in armed struggles at all or it was just a philosophical position?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: It was more of a philosophical position.  Nothing was mentioned of arms in our organisation.

MS MKHIZE: You mentioned also here in your statement that your wife was taken to prison, whether she was detained is not clear, can you just tell us a little bit about the circumstances surrounding that?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: I think what I said is that we were taken to Rabasoto and to Spartan.  At Spartan we were questioned at two separate rooms and Borman came to me and asked me what can he do for me, and I said he can release me.  He said I am going to release your wife she is going to take your clothes and you are going to Modderbee.  She was released the following day.  She never went to the prison.

MS MKHIZE: So in all these instances you were questioned mainly about this organisation or there were any particular activities that they were interested in?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: At that stage I was questioned about the rent boycott, consumer boycotts that were happening in Tembisa and my activities in the Tembisa Resident Association.

MS MKHIZE: Just one last question from me, in all these activities did you ever get legal assistance?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Only in 1987, I was represented by Shan Chetty and yes in 1987 we used to consult with the lawyers in terms of what our legal rights were in the organisation.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you.

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Thank you.

PROF MEIRING: You are a community leader and you are in
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
11 T MABENA
the know of what people are feeling, of what people want in Tembisa.  One of the most interesting things that awaits the Truth Commission is to make recommendations on reparation, how to help individuals after the hearings, but especially how to help communities after the hearings.  Have you given it some thought what so-called symbolic things could be done to Tembisa to help ease the tension and to help people to bear the pain?  For example some people in other communities thought that re-naming of streets, to name the heroes of the struggle, should be considered and other things.  Have you given it some thought, what symbolic things can be recommended by the Truth Commission in order to help the whole community of Tembisa?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: What I have said earlier is that, yes, naming the streets and some buildings, it's a symbol.  But I have recommended that Tembisa should dedicate a day where all victims and also because of this process that even perpetrators should be invited, where everybody that they will release all the frustration, all the pains that he went through, and that day should be celebrated yearly by the people of Tembisa.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much, that helps a lot.  May I ask in future, in coming months, if you hear with your ear to the ground similar proposals will you please send it through to us.

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Mr Mabena if I could just ask one brief question about the symbolism of us being here in Rabasoto, I mean it's a name that crops us and we will hear it over the next three days.  The name keeps recurring.  Rabasoto, people
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
12 T MABENA
were taken to Rabasoto, people were brought to Rabasoto as the police station.  We are not quite in the police station, we are in the hall next door to the police station, but can you just tell us in your words what you feel is the significance and the symbolism of us having this hearing of the Truth Commission here in Rabasoto?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: I think what I said earlier is that Rabasoto is where we are now.  The police station is a different thing, but because things used to happen at Rabasoto, then the whole area was then called Rabasoto.  The Rabasoto is the community hall, not the police station.  The police station it's a police station, but you cannot separate the police station now from the Rabasoto because of the closeness of Rabasoto to the police station.  So the police station generally our people call, if somebody is going to a police station he will tell you that I am going to Rabasoto.

MR LEWIN: Do you see any significance in us being here?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Yes there is, because of the history of Tembisa and a lot of events having happened at Rabasoto which one cannot - you know there is no clear distinction as to is it the police station because if you look at it at face value some people will be thinking that the Truth and Reconciliation hearings are happening exactly where it was happening at Rabasoto, meaning the police station where people were tortured.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Mabena you mentioned that you were detained under the State of Emergency Act, and you also said that Mr Shan Chetty acted for you, were you at any stage during the two years, were you charged formally in a court of law?
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
13 T MABENA

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: No Shan Chetty was representing me in the detentions of 1977 because we were filing a case against the then Minister of Police, Jimmy Kruger, for the sufferings that were caused to me.

YASMINE SOOKA: During the period of 1986 when you were held at Modderbee how long were you there before and were you charged at the end of that process?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: I think at Modderbee we were always threatened because at that stage there was this Delmas strike.  I still remember Borman coming to us and saying to us look these people at Delmas are charged with treason and you are also going to be charged with treason and the charges were not forthcoming.  At that stage, if I still remember well, we then wrote a letter to the Minister who was then Botha, to ask for release or be charged.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  We would like to thank you for coming today.  Hlengiwe has got one more question.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you.  As I indicated that having you is an opportunity for us, can you just tell us one more thing before you disappear, where is Tembisa today in terms of conflicts that occurred not between the residents and the security forces but between different political groupings within Tembisa, how are relationships now?

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: I think the other thing we have made in Tembisa is that we have managed in Tembisa to have discussions across the political groupings in terms of people fighting for political reasons.  I think in Tembisa presently one would say it's at zero percent.  We don't experience that thing anymore in Tembisa.