Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

SANGO MPEPETO: He was a peacefully man.  He was not chaotic at all.  But if anybody went after him unnecessarily, he would retaliate.

ADV POTGIETER: You  were saying that Pickup Tantsi was saying that he should have actually been the one that was killed.  So your brother must have intervened somehow on his behalf.   What was he actually saying - what happened.

SANGO MPEPETO: My brother got there and Pickup was there wanting to find out why the car was burnt down.  My brother then said they must stop, because there would be chaos.  That is when my brother was shot and Pickup was saved by running away.

ADV POTGIETER: So your brother really went there to try and avoid a conflict - to defuse a situation that could have led to conflict and violence possibly.

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, it is so.

ADV POTGIETER: As a result of that, trying to avoid violence, he met violence, he met a violent death.

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, he was trying to make peace, but he is the one who got shot at the end ironically.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you were saying that according to the information, it was Mr Ngcaga that was actually doing the shooting.

SANGO MPEPETO: It is Mr Ngcaga who shot, because Pickup was there and he said that he would give evidence that it was Mr Ngcaga who shot.

ADV POTGIETER: And somehow this story that Ms Ngcaga was telling the court, subsequently doesn't make sense if one looks at the injuries which your brother had.  You - you told us that apart from the gunshot wounds, he also had wounds that was caused by some sharp objects, an axe or something.

SANGO MPEPETO: He had two wounds.  Two bullet shots, in the forehead and in the chest and then apparently as he as lying down he was axed on the face.

ADV POTGIETER: And you - you saw those wounds  - you saw the axe wounds on his face subsequently.

SANGO MPEPETO: When I went to the hospital I saw myself.

ADV POTGIETER: So if one just looks at the injuries, then the story of Ms Ngcaga can't be right, because he was not only shot, he was also hit with an axe.  And she said that she only shot him.

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, it is true - because her report was a joke - it was lies.

ADV POTGIETER: This allegation that your late brother was trying to rape her.  What is your response to that.

SANGO MPEPETO: It's not so - because she said she was in a car, the doors all locked, one window open just a bit - a hand could not even go in.  But what is amazing is that my brother was about three meters from the yard, but she never got out of the car.  She was in the car the whole time - it doesn't make sense.

ADV POTGIETER: And what happened to this case.  Was any of Mr or Ms Ngcaga ever charged -  convicted -  sentenced?

SANGO MPEPETO: After the case when she could not tell the court, when she just started crying, the case did not continue.  It has been quiet since.

ADV POTGIETER: So you have never been told of what the outcome of that case was.  It just stopped when she started crying.

SANGO MPEPETO: After she had cried, the case did not continue.  We would just hear rumours that the case is not continuing.  As for me I asked for forgiveness from the Lord and asked the Lord to  forgive   those who had killed my brother.  
There is only one reason why I want the person who killed my brother to come forward, because it is because my mother is ill and all she wants to know is who killed her child.  She does not necessarily want this person to be jailed.  She just wants to know who it is.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] Mr and Ms Ngcaga still live in De Aar?

SANGO MPEPETO: They are still here.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct]  - Ms Ngcaga is now longer the Mayoress?

SANGO MPEPETO: She's no longer Mayoress.

ADV POTGIETER: Your late brother's wife, what has happened to her.

SANGO MPEPETO: She is in the hall - during the incident she was at her own home.  We then phoned her to tell her that her husband had passed away.  She then arrived.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Mpepeto thank you very much.

MS SEROKE: Mr Mpepeto it is clear the Ms Ngcaga used her position as a Mayoress to protect her husband when she said she is the one who shot your brother.  But it is clear that she was never able to say who had axed your brother even though she had shot him.  Is that how you think as well?

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, I think so.

MS SEROKE: The man who had been watching - was he there in court during the procedure?

SANGO MPEPETO: He never went to court - he had been waiting to be called in, but he was never called in.  I just heard by chance that there was a court case and I went.

MS SEROKE: Did you say that Ms Ngcaga had said that she was going to come with her family to your family to ask for forgiveness.

SANGO MPEPETO: No, she never came.

MS SEROKE: Did you try any means asking them why they did not come, because your mother is in ill health?

SANGO MPEPETO: I never asked, because they'd said they were waiting for her uncle to come and ask for forgiveness.  We have been waiting since.  I never went after them, because it is their own burden.  We don't have a problem.  My brother's blood is in their hands.  If they don't sleep at night because of my brother's death.  It is their own problem.
If they want us to come together for them to ask forgiveness, we can do that.  We can pray so that they also can be free inside.

MS SEROKE: How would it affect you if the Truth and Reconciliation Committee try and bring the two families together?  Would it be good for you?

SANGO MPEPETO: I would be glad, because peace is all we want,  forgiveness is all we want.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: Mr Mpepeto thank you very much for coming here today to tell us about the loss to your family of your brother and the loss to your community of a man who was a leader in his association and his community.  It's been very moving for us to hear of the effects of this event on your lives and I am sure the feelings of division which are still there even though you are able to live together in the same community in some measure of peace.
We human beings find it very, very difficult to say we are sorry when we have done something wrong and it's one of the things that we as a Commission have to help people to make a path that they can tread, so that they can come forward and say that they are sorry.  And if necessary, seek amnesty for the things that they have done.  
We value your approach as you have said as you are a man of peace and we hope that something can be done to heal this division so that repentance and forgiveness can happen.  
And we thank you and your mother's sister and your late brother's wife for coming here today, thank you very much.