Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — UNKNOWN

MR VISSER: At the beginning of 1962 you were transferred to Inkobo as branch officer and in the same year you were transferred to Rosebank in Johannesburg as a detective, and in in 1963 you went to the security branch at Intergraze(?) and there you were involved in investigating matters, you were part of the investigative team because of your detective experience.  From 1963 therefore you were associated with the security branch of the South African Police and you investigated various cases, some of which were very important matters, controversial matters. You for example had to do with the Rivonia Trial.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: With the station bomb, that is the Harris bomb explosion at the Park Station in Johannesburg and there you had certain experiences which left certain impressions on you.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: Yes the day of that explosion at the station, we were called there.  What I saw there made a lasting impression on me.  The body of the person, the woman that was killed in that explosion had already been removed but everywhere on the platform where the people were waiting for trains, there was only blood, glass and pieces of cement.  It was a gruesome situation to walk there and see all this blood and glass.

MR VISSER: And the purpose, like you, how did you understand that.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: It was a political explosion, definitely.  It was done by the African Resistance Movement.

MR VISSER: If we can continue, in December 1965 you were promoted to the rank of lieutenant, and in 1966 you were liaison officer between the uniform clerk and the security branch.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct yes.

MR VISSER: During that time, that is 1966, did you have to do with any specific aspects regarding terrorism

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: We worked in Ovamboland and the biggest part of South West Africa to combat the infiltration and at that time I was intensely involved with trained Swapo terrorists.

MR VISSER: And you remained there until 1986 with certain interruptions?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: It was not a continuous service, it was three months, two months, four months, it varied all the time.

MR VISSER: By the end of 1971 you were transferred to Rundu in South West Africa and you were in charge of that branch when you did security work, unit in January 1977 you were transferred back to the Republic of South Africa and then you went to Pietermaritzburg, as second in charge of the  Security Branch in Pietermaritzburg.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: You handled very important cases there but in 1977 you were promoted to the rank of lieutenant colonel and from the end of 1979 you were transferred to Port Elizabeth where you replaced Dreyer as Divisional Commander.  That was the end of 1979, the beginning of 1980.
	You were in Port Elizabeth as from December 1979 to December 1983.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And you were the divisional commander of the security branch in Port Elizabeth.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: I will give some more details regarding that now.  Then you were promoted to the rank of colonel and in December 1983 you were transferred to Johannesburg as the divisional commander of the security branch, Witwatersrand.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And there you started service in January 1984 and in the same year you were promoted to the rank of brigadier.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: From the 12th of January 1984, up till December 1988, you were a divisional commander of the security branch in Johannesburg?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And as from January 1988 till May 1989, for a short period you served as the head of the intelligence unit of the security branch.  I've already nearly finished.  In May 1989 you became Divisional Commander Witwatersrand and from 1990 to 1992 you were the regional commissioner and you were promoted to major general.
	Just to put something right, in 1989, Divisional Commissioner.  That means it was in the Uniform Branch. And then the last word about that is you resigned from the South African Police on the 30th of December 1992, you retired then.
	Mr Chairman I'm going on to - perhaps I can finish one more aspect which I might be able to finish briefly.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes alright.

MR VISSER: I'm going to read this and you must correct me if I'm wrong.  This has to do with the administrative dispensation of the police in the Eastern Cape.  Regarding that area you told me, regarding the geographic area, the division Eastern Cape or the Eastern Province as my learned friend would say, it did not include the following.  It did not include East London, it did not include Transkei, it did not include the Ciskei, neither Lesotho.  Is that correct?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct yes.

MR VISSER: The security branch offices from where the security activities were done, one was in Grahamstown, one in  Uitenhage, one in Cradock, one in Fort Beaufort and then there was branch office at Port Elizabeth,  but the provincial office was also in Port Elizabeth.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: Yes Mr Chairman, they were managed jointly.  There were only desks at the divisional office, it was not managed as a separate office.

MR VISSER: Regarding the security branch component in Port Elizabeth, the divisional commander was yourself as from 1980 or from 1979.  Second in charge was Harold Snyman.

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: That is correct.

MR VISSER: His rank?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: He was a major.

MR VISSER: And the branch commanders in Grahamstown?  I don't know if this is necessary Mr Chairman.  I'm going to the divisional commanders in Port Elizabeth.  The administrative section commander was Mr van Greunen, is that correct?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: Yes.

MR VISSER: And of the so-called white matters, who was that?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: Mr Siebert.

MR VISSER: Black matters?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: H B du Plessis,  that was one of the previous witnesses.

MR VISSER: And Mr du Plessis was he also involved in something else?

GERRIT NICHOLIS ERASMUS: He was also responsible for terrorist manners and court related investigations and Mr Nick van Rensburg the previous witness, was responsible for trade unions but is already giving evidence how he fits into this matter.  He was also responsible for coloured matters.
	Mr Chairman is this an opportune time to adjourn?

CHAIRPERSON: It is our intention to commence at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning, I'm now adjourning and we will resume at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
HEARING ADJOURNS