Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-13

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: (sworn states)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Majebe, the affidavit which is in front of you is also before the Committee, do you confirm that this affidavit was made by yourself and that you abide by its contents?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Wait Mr Mbandazayo, just which one are you talking about that you would want to rely on?
   In the bundle we have an application that starts on the page marked 1.  Attached to that form is a document headed "Statement by Thembesile Majebe", starting on page 8 and that proceeds to page 40.  We have now been handed a document headed "Affidavit"; it seems that the same person has made an affidavit.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this the document you wish to lead him on?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Mr Chairperson, I've tried thusfar to facilitate the leading of evidence made with this affidavit from that statement.

CHAIRPERSON: This will be Exhibit A then.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: I'm sorry Chairperson, perhaps I have just to explain the status of the document from page 8 to page 14.  Mr Chairperson this statement is in fact a statement which was prepared by the TRC investigator, he having had an interview with the applicant, otherwise it's not a statement which accompanied the amnesty application of the applicant as such.  Thank you sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairperson to facilitate the proceeding of this matter, what I will do, though it it's contained in the affidavit, I wouldn't necessarily confine myself to the affidavit to certain paragraphs but what is going to happen is what is contained in the affidavit I will ask just to lead the applicant on the contents, not necessarily to referring to a particular paragraph. Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Majebe, can you tell the Committee in your own words what led to yourself attempting to kill the victim, Lucky August?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: In 1993 there was a dispute amongst PASO students and COSA students.  Mr Lucky August was the secretary for the ANC Youth League in Fort Beaufort, he was one of the people who was involved amongst the leaders who were forcing the other students to be chased away from the school.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes what were you at the time yourself?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I was the PASO organiser at the time.  I was a student at Namibia, I was in Standard 8.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, proceed.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Mr Lucky August, between 7 and 8pm, we saw Mr Lucky August with two of his comrades, they were three in total.  They came towards us, we were sitting at a place where his elder brother who was a priest stayed, next door to the place we were sitting.   He got out of that house and came towards and went past us going towards his home.  My late comrade Luyanda Zote also stayed on the street.  He went to his home, we had no business with him at the time, we just were on our own business, but after five minutes had elapsed when he had got into his house, Mr Gcabashe who was fixing a car underneath a street lamp in the township looked shocked and we joked with him asking him what was going on.  He said that Lucky was threatening Ngulu Leko with a gun and was telling him how he was going to shoot him.  We asked where the person was and he said that he went to his house. We asked what had happened, he said that he asked this boy to go and fetch a screw driver and when he was going past his house he threatened him with a gun, therefore he was shocked.  After the shock he decided to take a walk.
	We went to look for him, we didn't find him ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Sorry it's not quite clear to me, whom did Lucky threaten to shoot?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Ngulu Leko.

UNKNOWN: Was that the man working on the car?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No it was a little boy who was helping the man that was fixing the car.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: When you say little boy, about what age was he, this Ngulu Leko?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Between eight and ten years of age.

UNKNOWN: Did he have any association with anyone of you or your group, this Ngulu Leko?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: His elder brother was a member of our organisation, the PAC.  When we went to look for him we stood three houses away from Lucky's house, we waited for about five minutes and schoolboy Charlie appeared with a coke bottle.  When he saw us he went back to the place where he came from which was Lucky August's house.  A few minutes after he had got into the house, Lucky came out of the house alone, he came using the road coming towards us.  We did not care much because we were sitting on the pavement just next to a hedge.  He then came exactly towards us and his one hand went towards his waist as if he was going to take out something.  When he was about two to three steps away from us I leaped and I took a pickaxe and hit him with it until he fell.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that a pick handle or a pick axe?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: A pickaxe.  I hit him with the handle.

UNKNOWN: Sorry Mr Majebe.  Interpreter, did he say pick axe or pick handle?  I think he says pick handle.

INTERPRETER: Pick handle, I apologise.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: When he fell I went to search what weapon he had around his waist.  I found a gun, a .38, we usually call it a fly wheel, around his waist.  I took it, I hit him again on the face twice with the pick handle, this is when he was still down.  I then ran off with his gun, we left him there.  Whilst this was happening I was with Luyanda Zote who had been threatened by Lucky August with death and Thembela Father.  What caused all this were the threats that he had made towards my comrades and the spirit he spread around the school that we should be kicked out of the school.  He was not even at school, he was just a member of the Youth League, ANC Youth League in the community, not at school. Should I continue?

UNKNOWN: Just to go back to the attack with the pick handle, did the pick handle on the one end contain an axe or was it only the handle and you used the back side of the pick axe or was it only the wooden handle separate from the pick?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was just a handle, a pick handle.

CHAIRPERSON: How many times did you hit him after you had disarmed him?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I think twice.

CHAIRPERSON: Whereabouts on his body?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Around the head.

UNKNOWN: What was he doing at that stage?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: He was lying on the ground.

CHAIRPERSON: How many times did you hit him before you disarmed him?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Before he fell on the ground I hit him twice on the face.

UNKNOWN: When you hit him twice on the face, that is after you had disarmed him, what was your aim, why did you do that?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: The reason why I hit him after I had disarmed him was because I was angry at the time and the way he had threatened people.  I knew him pretty well, I did not expect him to do all the things that he was doing.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, how many people were lying in wait there for Mr August?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: There were two with me, I was the third person.

CHAIRPERSON: Three of you.  And according to your affidavit, you were lying on the grass, the three of you behind the hedge, is that correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Correct, we were not lying behind the hedge, it was the hedge and then the lawn, the grass and we were just there.

CHAIRPERSON: Could Mr August see you when he approached you?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes he saw us because where we were, it was dark where we were and just when you got down there was light so where he was he could see us.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand your evidence correctly, you of the three are the only one that assaulted Mr August?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: When you hit him before he fell, before you disarmed him, did he bleed?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was dark, I did not see any blood.

CHAIRPERSON: But you were near the light, you could see you, isn't it?