Special Hearings — Prison Hearings — 1997-07-22

CHAIRPERSON: We shall now call upon Warrant Officer J.S. Steinberg to come forward.  Welcome Mr Steinberg.  Before I ask you to do either the oath or the affirmation, I would like you to introduce the gentleman who have accompanied you.

MR JANSEN: Madam Chair, with your indulgence, may I just introduce ourselves.  We are legal representatives of Mr Steinberg in agreement with the Department, it was felt best that he be legally represented and that his evidence be structured.
 Further with your indulgence, I am Mr Jansen and my Attorney is Mr Muller.  We are both from Pretoria.   Further with your indulgence, because of that matters for this submission was only finalised late during the course of last week, we have thought it best to lead Mr Steinberg's evidence in a question and answer form.  He feels most comfortable with that.
 And then he will further be testifying in Afrikaans again with your indulgence, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think we have a problem with that and however, we shall ask Mr Steinberg to take the oath.  Would you take the oath or the affirmation?

UNKNOWN: Oath.
MR J.S. STEINBERG: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, you may proceed.

MR JANSEN: Mr Steinberg, what is your age?

UNKNOWN: I am 30 years of age.

MR JANSEN: Where are you currently employed and what is your position?

UNKNOWN: I am currently still employed at the Maximum Security Prison and I am a KB1 in the old system, this was a Warrant Officer.

MR JANSEN: When were you first employed by the Department of Correctional Services, the then Department of Prisons?

UNKNOWN: In January of 1986.

MR JANSEN: Was this after your matriculation?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR JANSEN: Why did you select a career in the Department of Correctional Services?

UNKNOWN: I wanted to make a career in the Department, because this allowed me to be able to take on a trade.

MR JANSEN: Were you also an active rugby player at the time?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR JANSEN: Did the Department also give you an opportunity to advance your rugby career?

UNKNOWN: yes.

MR JANSEN: Is it correct that you originally joined for four years in the place of normal military service?

UNKNOWN: Yes, but it had been my intention to make a future and a career in the Department.

MR JANSEN: Where did you begin to work in January 1986?

UNKNOWN: I began at a local prison.

MR JANSEN: The local prison was then the prison for Black persons, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR JANSEN: For how long were you employed there?

UNKNOWN: I was employed there for six months.

MR JANSEN: And where did you go after that?

UNKNOWN: We went to Kroonstad to our Training College, where I received basic training.

MR JANSEN: For how long did your basic training last?

UNKNOWN: We were supposed to be there for six months, but we did a brief course for three months because of staff shortages.

MR JANSEN: What did this training entail?

UNKNOWN: We received training with regard to laws and regulations, self defence, the use of firearms and so forth.

MR JANSEN: What is the B Order?

UNKNOWN: The B Order is the bible of the prisons, how you should go about things in particular situations, how you should act under certain circumstances.  It contains everything with regard to the treatment of prisoners.

MR JANSEN: Had there been any particular training with regard to the handling or an explanation of the situation of prisoners on death row?

UNKNOWN: No, not as far as I can recall.

MR JANSEN: Subsequent to your training, where were you placed?

UNKNOWN: I was placed at the Central prison in Pretoria.

MR JANSEN: Would that then have been the prison where White prisoners were kept?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR JANSEN: At that time, which would have been about September of 1986, maybe October 1986, what did you know of the Maximum Prison at that time?

UNKNOWN: Not very much, although we did know that this is where prisoners on death row were kept.

MR JANSEN: When did you begin to work at Maximum Prison?

UNKNOWN: Roughly during the middle of 1987.

MR JANSEN: What was your age at that time?

UNKNOWN: I was 20 years of age.

MR JANSEN: Did you receive any special training for your work at Maximum Prison?

UNKNOWN: We did receive training with regard to safety and the security arrangements and so forth.

MR JANSEN: Did you receive any particular training with regard to the handling of prisoners who have been sentenced to death or the human situation which you would face in that situation?

UNKNOWN: No, we received training in service.

MR JANSEN: Prior to beginning to work there, did you receive any information with regard to the process of execution?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR JANSEN: Had there been, or was there any formal procedure in which people were asked whether they might have had convictions which did not allow them to work on death row?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR JANSEN: Moral objections against service on death row?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR JANSEN: Did you receive any information with regard to a particular and peculiar rules that had effect on Maximum Prison prisoners?

UNKNOWN: We were told that whatever happens inside the Maximum Prison was a secret and you could not tell this to anyone else.

MR JANSEN: How long after your appointment at Maximum Prison were you involved in your first execution?

UNKNOWN: Three days.

MR JANSEN: Could you briefly sketch the events of your first three days of employment?

UNKNOWN: I started working there on the Monday, I was then told to accompany a certain group of people who were receiving visit from their families.  In the visitors' room I heard that these people were going to be executed through the course of the week.
 These people prayed quite a lot.  They sang songs and that was the first day of my work on death row.  I had to deal with these people who were going to be executed during that very first day of service on death row.

MR JANSEN: What happened on the Tuesday, the next day?

UNKNOWN: On the Tuesday, I came on duty.  I was placed in the section that had the pot.

MR JANSEN: Could you explain what the pot was?  Was that where people were kept in the seven days prior to their execution?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR JANSEN: So this was a special section in the prison?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.  My daily duties were to unlock, to search their person, to take the person for a shower, to return the person to their cell, to give their food to them and then we would patrol up and down to see to it that the people were calm.

MR JANSEN: Who trained you to do this routine service?

UNKNOWN: There was a Warrant Officer who worked with us at that time, who briefly told us what we had to do, what we were not allowed to do and you learnt from the old members there.  You followed their example and you picked up your habits from them.

MR JANSEN: When were you told that you would be involved in the process of execution itself?

UNKNOWN: On the Tuesday afternoon I was told that I had to be on duty before six o'clock the next morning.

MR JANSEN: When did you normally report for duty?

UNKNOWN: We normally reported for duty at about ten to, quarter to seven.

MR JANSEN: And on days of executions?

UNKNOWN: About half past five.

MR JANSEN: Who told you that you would be involved in the process of the execution?

UNKNOWN: The Warrant Officer.

MR JANSEN: What did he say to you what would you do, what would you work entail?

UNKNOWN: He told me that I had to be on duty at half past five, since I was going to accompany some of the prisoners to the hanging room or the gallows.

MR JANSEN: Did he explain to you what the process would entail?

UNKNOWN: No, he told me to simply watch the other people and that I would learn quickly what to do.

MR JANSEN: How many persons were executed on that Wednesday?

UNKNOWN: If I recall correctly, it would have been seven persons.