Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   Yes, when I was in hospital two police sergeants came to take a statement, though I don't remember their names because they came immediately after I was admitted to hospital.  After that they came and told me that I am supposed to be in the court for the case.  I went there at Vulindlela.  They told me that they have postponed the case to the 13th of November.  That was the end of the case.

DR MAGWAZA: So there was no case.  Are there any people that you can recall, like people who were responsible for this case or the police station?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you remember at least one who was responsible for this case?

WITNESS:   Yes, sergeant - Police Sergeant Zondi.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you have the case number?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't.  Even if I did receive it I just don't remember now.

DR MAGWAZA: Let's went on now after you were admitted to hospital, and you slept there from 1986.  After that what happened?

WITNESS:   I was discharged in hospital in 1987.  When I was outside the main road next to my house was always crowded with these people.  They used to scream at me and tell me that, "Are you still here?  Are you still here?  We will come after you."  And I just didn't take them into consideration, I kept on staying at home.  And then one day they came by a kombi.  Two guys got off.  And in that kombi there were also policemen, and they came to me and they said they are here to fetch me because they need me from the police station.  So when I asked them, "Whose kombi is this?" one guy took a gun out and shot at me next to my mouth, my cheek, and at my back.  After that I was admitted in hospital.  That was the end of the story because there was no case afterwards.  I was discharged from hospital.  I went back home.

DR MAGWAZA: When you were discharged from hospital how - can you please explain to us how was your health at that time?

WITNESS:   The first time I was admitted I was discharged and I was at the wheelchair.  When they shot me in 1987 I was already at the wheelchair.  I was at the wheelchair the first time they assaulted me.

DR MAGWAZA: I can understand you, Thabo.  You look like you were brave, because at this stage you were still young.  I would like you to tell us if you know these people?

WITNESS:  Yes, I do know them.  Some of them died, some of them are in Jo'burg.

DR MAGWAZA: Those that you know, do you know where they are?  Do you know their names?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Some of them are working and they are policemen, KwaZulu Policemen.

DR MAGWAZA: In other words you do have an idea who they are and where they are working, and if we want to follow them we can get hold of them.

WITNESS:   I will say I don't know where they are working, but I do know them and they still pass next to my house.

DR MAGWAZA: When they shot you in both cases were there any witnesses that we can get hold of them now?

WITNESS:   Yes, there is one, but one person is now in Jo'burg.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you know where he is?

WITNESS:   No, I don't.  I don't know, I just know in Jo'burg.

DR MAGWAZA: Is he the only one who can be a witness?

WITNESS:   Yes, because it was just the two of us.  Luckily he wasn't shot because his mother was IFP member, then maybe that's why they didn't shoot him.

DR MAGWAZA: When they shot you on both occasions was there any family member?

WITNESS:   No, my family had moved away at that time.

DR MAGWAZA: Let's just come back to your health, Thabo.  It's obvious that your life has changed.  Everyone can see that.  What I can ask is just I want to know that besides seeing that you are someone who's on the wheelchair what else can you say?  Like can you tell us about your - maybe medication expenses, or ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   I don't understand your question really.  Would you please repeat your question.

DR MAGWAZA: Your health was disturbed and you were still too young, and it's obvious today, but what I can say is that besides us seeing that you are on the wheelchair we want to know what else - what difficulties you encounter because of your health.

WITNESS:   No, I will say besides me sitting here there is nothing.

DR MAGWAZA: Because you are now on the wheelchair how do you survive?

WITNESS:   My mother is working.  She is the one who is supporting me in every manner.

DR MAGWAZA: What about yourself, you yourself, are you receiving any pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do receive a pension.

DR MAGWAZA: Thabo, we are glad that you came, and your testimony is touching.  I personally this testimony has touched me, has moved me, your situation, and I am glad that you came here to give this testimony.  And we have opened our ears to everything that we've heard, and we are going to take it forward, forward, until we are heard.  I thank you.  I would like the chairperson to take over now.

DR MAGWAZA: I would like to clarify a few things.  In Unit One who was staying there, Thabo?  Who were staying at Unit One, Thabo?  In Unit One who were staying there?  What kind of people were staying there?

WITNESS:   Mixed.

DR MAGWAZA: Here are the IFP people.  They were rushing after you outside your house in your neighbour's house, and they were shouting, and neighbours didn't open the door for you.  Why?  Why did they do this?  Were they belonging to any organisation?

WITNESS:   No, the only house that I went to, next to that house, behind that house those people were IFP people.  Maybe that was the reason.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you know the names of the neighbours?  Do you know those neighbours, and when they were shouting?

WITNESS:  Yes, it was Gaza, Buthelezi, and the other one I just don't remember the family's name.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you.  You also said that they took you to hospital, but you didn't mention the names of the people who took you to hospital.  Do you still remember their names?  Those people who took you to hospital, do you still remember their names?

WITNESS:   Yes, I still do.  Zenzele Zondi and Nosipho Ngozi and Mapola Msomi.

DR MAGWAZA: You also said one of the people who tortured you were the police, and you also mentioned some names.  Are those people - are these names among the police, Dodi Zulu, Wasela Awetha, Themba, and Bheki Zulu?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR MAGWAZA: Who is the police amongst these people?

WITNESS:   Dodi Zulu and Bheki Zulu.  They are policemen.

DR MAGWAZA: Where are these people staying now?

WITNESS:   It's difficult for  me to know, but they do come next to my house, passing going to the hostel.  I don't know whether they are now having their own houses.

DR MAGWAZA: Are they in police uniforms?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR MAGWAZA: I thank you, Mr Chairman.

DR MAGWAZA: Thabo, you have requested that you would like to be helped going forward with your education.  When was the last time ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   In standard nine.

DR MAGWAZA: If you like to go to school what do you want to do?

WITNESS:   I would like to go on fine art or drawing.

DR MAGWAZA: There's just one thing that I want to know.  You said something about Zuma, Sergeant Zuma.  Do you know where they are at this moment?

WITNESS:   No.  The last time I saw them it was when they used to come and take statements.  I never saw them again.

DR MAGWAZA: But do you remember from which police station they came from?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Just one very quick last question.  Which hospitals were you treated at?  You went to hospital twice.  Which hospitals were you treated at?

WITNESS:   It's Edendale.

MR LAX: Edendale.  Thank you.