Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-28

MR TSHOLANKU: Can I understand that to mean that the ANC in their submissions associating themselves to acts committed on the authority of their commanders and combatants that they were not aware of, which were carried out in good faith and on occasions incorrectly carried out ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, you can't put that question like that, what you can ask him is whether he in his view, the ANC associate themselves?

MR TSHOLANKU: I'm indebted to you Mr Chairman.  Can we assume that in your view - having read this, the ANC associated themselves with this particular act?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes, Sir because it was in good faith.

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you Mr Chairman, no further re-examination.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR TSHOLANKU

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Major, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

PROF DE KOKER: Mr Chairman, excuse me, may I perhaps address you and just ask whether we could have a copy - excuse me Mr Chairman, may I ask you whether we could have a copy of that particular passage?  We did not have the privilege of having it in front of us and I would also - there was a reference which I recall, to a specific list and I would like to know whether this particular incident was listed or not in that document - I'd appreciate it.

CHAIRPERSON: I was also curious about that.  Was that incident listed?

MR TSHOLANKU: Mr Chairman, this incident was not listed.  The incidences listed range from 1960 to 1989, those are the incidences listed.  My understanding of the submission is that the ANC associated itself with which they refer to as the grey area.  Where there is proof that a commander and a combatant of MK involved in an incident that was not reported to them for security reasons and if such was carried out in good faith, my understanding is that they associated themselves
with them.

CHAIRPERSON: You can argue that I think.

MR TSHOLANKU: Yes, Mr Chairman, that is going to be my argument.

ADV DE JAGER: Could I ask you something?  In what you've read there, wouldn't it have been a pre-requisite that the ANC issued an injunction to intensify the struggle at that stage?

MR TSHOLANKU: My understanding is that this would have been the injunction issued by the ANC but there apparently is a rider that even if in good faith the combatant or the commander believes that this was part of the injunction - even if he was incorrect at that particular time but if that was good faith, my understanding is that it is covered by this particular submissions.

ADV DE JAGER: I just wanted to - you should think about it because having an injunction and on the other hand, signing the Peace Accord - but you could address us on that later.

MR TSHOLANKU: Yes, Mr Chairman, I'm planning on leading evidence pertaining to the ANC's attitude towards the Peace Accord at that particular point in time.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Particularly with regard to MK operations?

MR TSHOLANKU: With regard to MK operations yes, Madam.
Mr Chairman, if I'm afforded an opportunity to use the photocopy machine, I would make them available.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR TSHOLANKU: As it pleases Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Major, you are excused.

LAURENS MBATHA: Thank you Sir.
WITNESS EXCUSED