Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1977-08-07

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No, the police were arresting indiscriminately because at some stage we would get together at the prison but the Inkatha members would have their own cell and the UDF members would have another cell.

MR BRINK: Were you questioned while you were in detention?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, there were some detectives from Durban police station.

MR BRINK: And I presume you told them that you were a supporter of the IFP?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I told them but they knew it before I could even tell them because there were certain documents that we filled in when we were arrested, our names as well as our political affiliations.

MR BRINK: And were you detained at CR Swart Police Station?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: That is correct.

MR BRINK: For the whole period of your detention?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: That is correct.

MR BRINK: Were you detained alone in solitary confinement or were you with other IFP people in your cell?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I was detained with other people.

MR BRINK: But while you were in detention, were you in a communal cell or were you kept in solitary confinement?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No, I was never in solitary confinement, I was with Bheki Patrick Zwane as well as Agripa, Tembi Nkosi Mkhize, Mshaba Kuswao from Inanda, Jethro Mzizi Shoppe.  These are the ones that I still remember, I can't remember the rest but they were from different areas of Kwa Zulu Natal.

MR BRINK: Thank you very much Mr Hlengwa.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

CHAIRPERSON: The attack that led to the killing of Makanja, was that your decision to go there and attack the people?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I could say that it was my decision because I was personally attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: How many days after or how long after your house was attacked?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: If I remember well I think it was about after two days.  It was after two or three days because I was planning my attack during that stage.  I planned the counter-attack and I wanted it to be effective.  I saw them as my opponents as the Inkatha members and that they were standing in our way in fighting for freedom.

CHAIRPERSON: Just let me ask you a question, as far as you are concerned were the UDF not fighting for freedom?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: According to me I realised that they were not fighting for freedom as their name doesn't have the name freedom in it because we were Inkatha Freedom Party I believed that we were fighting for freedom and  I do not believe that the members of the UDF were fighting for freedom, I think they were the ones who were standing in our way to freedom.

CHAIRPERSON: What were they fighting for?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Maybe they were fighting for freedom but I just did not realise it at that time, I only came to know it later.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions you wish to ask?

ADV SANDI: Let us talk very shortly about your association with the IFP, when did you join the IFP?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: From 1988 when I came back from prison.  When I came back from prison I realised that there had been a change, there were different political groups with Inkatha on one side as well as UDF on the other side.  Thereafter the others explained ...(intervention)

ADV SANDI: Mr Hlengwa, can you make sure that your answers to our questions are as clear and short as possible and where you can you can even say yes if the answer is yes, you can even say no and try and give us some time to take down notes as you are replying to the questions.  When you joined the IFP, did someone come to you to persuade you to join IFP or did you personally go out to ask for membership to the IFP?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Nobody persuaded me but I was forced by the situation where I stayed because where I was staying it was an Inkatha stronghold and my parents were Inkatha members from ...

ADV SANDI: What were you told would be your responsibility as a member of the IFP?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: As I've explained, we never got any orientation whatsoever because thereafter violence erupted so nobody got orientated as to what our specific duties were.  I just told myself that as I was a member of Inkatha, we do not want anybody standing in our way like the UDF did but we never got any specific explanation as to what to do.

ADV SANDI: Can we talk now about the attack on your house and the subsequent killing of Mr Makanja by you, you say on the day your house was attacked you heard what you referred to as UDF voices, can you explain what you meant by that, UDF voices?  Do you mean to say that these were specific ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, UDF members have got their war cries and their slogans that they sing whenever they launch an attack and they've got certain names that they call Inkatha by, these are insults.  They insult Inkatha in a certain manner, that's how I got to know that these were members of the UDF.

ADV SANDI: You say after your house was attacked you took a decision that you would just attack and maybe kill anyone who belongs to the UDF.  I understand Mr Makanja was not according to you, he was not one of the people who came to attack your house.  Why exactly was Mr Makanja killed by you, why did you kill him specifically?

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: To tell you the honest truth, he was a member of the UDF and the fact that he was not specifically there on that particular day to me was not an important factor, I was not gunning for him just members of the UDF.  I never had an altercation or a personal verbal altercation with him but because he was a member of the UDF that's why I wanted him.

ADV SANDI: Now let us talk about the radio, was the radio found in your house?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No, they did not get the radio from my place nor from me.  I didn't even know that there was a radio stolen from Rose's house, I only heard later on and I spoke to my friend that if he knew the radio he should take the radio out and hand it over to the rightful owner and he duly did that.  He came back with the radio and handed it over to Mr Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: Just give us the name of that friend again please.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Bheki Patrick Zwane.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

ADV DE JAGER: Would you kindly explain, you told us about an attack, stone throwing between the two groups in the vicinity of the school, can you remember that?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I do.

ADV DE JAGER: During the confrontation there, did you people have somebody sort of in command and who called upon you to go and gather in order to throw the stones or how did you come together and who called on you to come together?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, there is a person who was leading us but he never used to tell us to launch attacks.  I don't remember him telling us but as they youth we used to get together and launch counter-attacks as the youth because we were also being attacked.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you have a youth leader there, who was the leader of your group if you had one?

INTERPRETER: There is a certain person by the name of Sheaman but it's not clear whether it's the Chairman or the name of the person Sheaman.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps we can clear it up with him.  Is Sheaman his name?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I'm referring to the Chairman, the Chairperson.

ADV DE JAGER: During that violent period, did anyone instruct you or tell you  listen, whenever you come across a member of the UDF you should attack him?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No, we used to discuss that as the youth group or youth members, there was no specific person who would give us an instruction or a specific instruction to attack.

ADV DE JAGER: So the youth gathered say on the corner of a street or somewhere and then you decided well we'll go on the attack?