Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

MR STERRENBERG: It is possible yes.

ADV POTGIETER: But it is possible that you could have hit him seven times.

MR STERRENBERG: I think had I hit him, he would have gone down quicker sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Now he is down, you see him falling, he falls to the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: It's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you moving closer  - correct?

MR STERRENBERG: Correct.

ADV POTGIETER: The person stays on the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: And you then move and you - you move in behind a tree.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You take cover behind a tree.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And you about three or four metres away from this person.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: What did you then exactly see - what happened?

MR STERRENBERG: I looked out of the tree and saw this - I saw his face turn towards me and I saw him executing a movement in front of his chest - assumed that he was either going to turn the weapon in my direction or throw a hand grenade at which time I took further action against him.

ADV POTGIETER: Now just before we proceed with that - perhaps you can indicate to us from where you are sitting - how far you were away from the person that was lying on the ground when you were taking cover behind a tree?

MR STERRENBERG: Approximately from where I am sitting to where the electric cord is running at the end of the stage.

ADV POTGIETER: The black electric cord there.

MR STERRENBERG: Just along to the stage.

ADV POTGIETER: At the end of the stage.  Ja it seems to be about three meters if I am not mistaken.

MR STERRENBERG: Approximately.

ADV POTGIETER: Now the persons lifts his head up and you assume he is looking in your direction.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You still standing behind the tree - and then you see him making some movement.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: With which part of his body?

MR STERRENBERG: With his hands in front of his chest I couldn't see which hand as both his hands were in front of his chest.

ADV POTGIETER: Was he lying face down on the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: He was laying - the front part of his body was on the ground and his head was turned towards me.

ADV POTGIETER: But in normal terms he was lying face down he wasn't lying on his back.

MR STERRENBERG: He was - no he wasn't lying on his back no.

ADV POTGIETER: So the hands were underneath the chest.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Now which part of the body was closer to you - the legs or the [intervention]

MR STERRENBERG: His feet were closer to me.

ADV POTGIETER: Feet were closer to you.

MR STERRENBERG: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: So you couldn't see what - what he was doing with his hands.

MR STERRENBERG: No sir I couldn't see what he was doing.

ADV POTGIETER: And then you shot him three times in the head.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Was it in the side of the head?

MR STERRENBERG: It was on the side of his face yes.

ADV POTGIETER: With your - with your pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: With the 9mm pistol.

ADV POTGIETER: 9mm pistol at a distance of three meters.  You say that you - you were thinking that the person would throw a hand grenade at you.

MR STERRENBERG: Correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Why did you think that?

MR STERRENBERG: An explosion had already occurred, a hand grenade had already been thrown - and I - there was a possibility that there would be further explosives devices available to these people.

ADV POTGIETER: It never occurred to you that there is a possibility that the person was dying.

MR STERRENBERG: It could have been possible yes sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Did it occur to you?

MR STERRENBERG: Not at that stage - at that stage the [indistinct] had been that this person was going to throw a hand grenade or turn his weapon on me.

ADV POTGIETER: Or turn it on you.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right.

ADV POTGIETER: And we just trying to understand what went through your head what exactly gave you that idea that he would either throw a hand grenade or he would shoot you with a gun.

MR STERRENBERG: The movements that were being made at that time.

ADV POTGIETER: But you couldn't see what was happening.  You had the protection of this tree - you were taking cover behind this tree.

MR STERRENBERG: I was standing behind the tree yes.

ADV POTGIETER: So what threat - what sort of threat I am just trying to understand what threat was there to you under those circumstances -  here is a person you fired seven rounds of SSG at the person - the person finally drops to the ground - lies face down with the hands underneath the chest - you are behind this tree - you've taken cover behind a tree - what threat was there to you.

MR STERRENBERG: It is a known fact sir that projectiles fired from a weapon can penetrate a tree - a tree is after all only wood as well as any scrapnel from a grenade which could cover a wide area.

ADV POTGIETER: So you thought that you could be injured through the tree - right through the tree.

MR STERRENBERG: Injured or killed either through the tree or by the device spreading scrapnel over a wider area in that vicinity yes.

ADV POTGIETER: You've never seen a hand grenade in the possession of that deceased not so?

MR STERRENBERG: No I  didn't sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You never seemed actually trying to throw a hand grenade at you.

MR STERRENBERG: No I didn't sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You never saw him actually trying to use his firearm to shoot at you behind the tree.

MR STERRENBERG: No I didn't sir, as I said I merely assumed that from his movements this was his actions - this was to be his actions.

ADV POTGIETER: Was there - was there any reason why - whilst you were behind this tree you could not ascertain exactly what was going on?  Taking the scenario - this person more than likely hit by your SSG which is a killer in itself - he is lying on the ground he is not trying to get up so he must have been fairly injured at that stage - was there any reason why it was not possible for you to ascertain exactly what this person was going to do, because you seem to have just acted quite rashly with respect.

MR STERRENBERG: Your Worship I would submit that I acted reasonably in the circumstances - this was a person who had an AK47 in his possession, he had fired the weapon - an explosion had occurred - I couldn't see any explosive device but in the circumstances and in that short space of time - I assumed that this person was going to go over to action and carry out a further attack against me.

ADV POTGIETER: And then - and then you formed the intention to kill as you said earlier whilst he was standing behind this tree - assuming that this person would either throw a hand grenade or shoot you with a gun.

MR STERRENBERG: I formed the intention to defend myself against the possible attack Your Worship.

ADV POTGIETER: No - no Superintendent you said earlier that you formed an intention to kill you wanted to kill the person as quickly as possible.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct Your Worship - but it was in order to defend myself.

ADV POTGIETER: And then you shot him three times through the head.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct Your Worship.

ADV POTGIETER: Three times.

MR STERRENBERG: Your Worship it was in three successions and that is - our training was taught to fire in quick succession - in the event that one missed or one or two of the shots did miss.

ADV POTGIETER: And you must - oh! yes ja - you obviously had no confidence in your shooting ability because three meters away you thought you had missed - a person lying on the ground - lying still.

MR STERRENBERG: Sir when faced with a life situation this was - you pull out all the stops in order to defend yourself.

ADV POTGIETER: Ja you certainly I must agree you did pull out all stops.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you sir.