Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-19

CHAIRPERSON: Where was it that you saw this?

NEO POTSANE: That happened on my way to work.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes the question was where?

NEO POTSANE: It was in and around Joubert Park.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes do carry on.

MR CURRIN: Had you during the course of the weekend heard anything at all about any planned marchers on that particular day?

NEO POTSANE: Yes I did hear about the IFP march which was going to take place on the 28th of March.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Mr Potsane you tend to swallow the last words. So we don't hear the last words or sentence that you utter. Would you please speak up a bit?

NEO POTSANE: Yes I did hear about the march of the IFP which was going to take place on the 28th of March.

CHAIRPERSON: Like that yes. Much better thank you.

MR CURRIN: What time did you arrive at work?

NEO POTSANE: I arrived at work at around twenty five past eight.

MR CURRIN: And what did you do when you got to work?

NEO POTSANE: When I got at work I went up to my work station that was on the 11th floor.

MR CURRIN: Did you when you arrived discuss what you had seen and what you had heard with any of your colleagues at Shell House?

NEO POTSANE: Yes I did. I did discuss it with my colleagues at the technical security department and we actually viewed it in a serious light that the IFP people are in town and then they might cause trouble.

MR CURRIN: You then were at your work station. What happened after that? Could you tell us?

NEO POTSANE: I was at my work station for about 30 minutes and thereafter I went down out of the building to Plein Street. Whilst I was there I witnessed a group of marchers passing by and the situation was quite tense. And it even come to a point whereby there was nearly like shooting between the ANC guards and the marchers.

CHAIRPERSON: This was while you were in Plein Street?

NEO POTSANE: Plein.

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman what he said was he went down after about a half an hour there were marchers and situation was tense and in his view to such an extent that there was almost confrontation. He didn't say there were any shootings but he said there was almost confrontation.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes what I meant was that whilst he was in Plein Street?

MR CURRIN: Yes correct. But there was no particular incident at that stage. Is that correct?

NEO POTSANE: Yes that is correct.

MR CURRIN: After that you, what happened after that? Did you return to your work station?

NEO POTSANE: Yes after that I returned to my work station and I was there like most of the morning up until like eleven a.m. in the morning and when I received a call which came from the reception downstairs that some one wanted to see me down there. So I went down and only to discover that my niece had come to seek me at work.

CHAIRPERSON: Who had come to see you?

NEO POTSANE: My niece.

MR CURRIN: Carry on.

NEO POTSANE: And when I actually asked her what was the reason of her coming to my work when she was supposed to be at school she said the principal of the school has actually instructed them to leave because the situation was not conducive and it was actually dangerous for them to be in town.

MR CURRIN: Did she go to school at a school in down town Johannesburg?

NEO POTSANE: Yes she schooled in down town Johannesburg in Volmerans Street.

MR CURRIN: And what was her personal state of mind at that stage?

NEO POTSANE: She was very scared and she just felt she couldn't go home. She might not arrive.

MR CURRIN: So she didn't want to go back down into the streets to go home?

NEO POTSANE: That is correct.

MR CURRIN: What did you advise her or what did you then arrange for her to do?

NEO POTSANE: At that stage now I sent her to my work station on the 11th floor which she knew.

MR CURRIN: Okay and then what happened?

NEO POTSANE: Well after that I stayed back there at the foyer there you know just evaluating the situation. I was concerned about that situation too.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Mr Potsane we can hardly hear you from this side.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought I was getting old.

MR LAX: Can I make a suggestion just for all of us. If you put these things on you can hear perfectly clearly. And it will help everybody I think.

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman I should just mention that the witness does have a tendency and it is a characteristic of his speaking to clip off some of his words which does make it difficult. It is just the way that he speak and I think it is something which he finds very difficult not to do. So I can apologize for that.

CHAIRPERSON: I feel relieved. I thought it was an affliction I was suffering. Let's hear you.

MR LAX: Sorry you were telling us what you were doing down in the foyer. Just carry on from there?

NEO POTSANE: Yes after I sent my niece up to my work station I remained behind at the foyer just to evaluate the situation because (...intervention)
I will try.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I must say still with my headphones it is difficult to catch your last words.

NEO POTSANE: Pardon Ma'am?

CHAIRPERSON: After that what did you do?

NEO POTSANE: I remained behind to evaluate the situation because I felt that things were getting serious. And at about that moment Gary Kruser approached me and asked me if I could, that I should go and help at the parapet. And actually told me that they were expecting an attack on Shell House. And actually instructed me to go and take a gun from the cubicle which is part of the reception there at Shell House.

MR CURRIN: What was your response to him telling you, you should go and take a gun?

NEO POTSANE: Well I said my (...indistinct) condition doesn't allow me to handle firearms.

MR LAX: Your what condition sorry?

NEO POTSANE: His parole conditions do not enable him to handle a firearm.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR CURRIN: What happened thereafter?

NEO POTSANE: Well after that Gary insisted that I shall go nevertheless to go and assist.

MR CURRIN: And what was the nature of this assistance that he wanted you to render on the parapet?

NEO POTSANE: The nature of the assistance which I was supposed to render at the parapet was to assist in observing the situation and reporting back to the guards who were posted there.

MR CURRIN: How long did you then after having received this instruction you then proceeded to the parapet? And what happened after that?

NEO POTSANE: When I got to the parapet the first person I saw was Moolman and I felt that since I was still new in that situation I shall go to some one who had been there for some time and so that he could update me as to what is happening.

MR CURRIN: Okay and then what happened?

NEO POTSANE: I was going to Moolman and about three paces from Moolman I then heard these shots which came from my right hand side, from down the street. And then at a stage because Moolman was at the position where he was actually covered I actually rushed to him and crouched next to him. That is on his right.

MR CURRIN: When you say that he was covered what do you mean by that?

NEO POTSANE: He was actually protected by the wall of the parapet.

MR CURRIN: Did you speak to Moolman at all?

NEO POTSANE: Yes when I arrived to him he actually, he himself told me that these people were firing at us.

MR CURRIN: Once he had spoken to you what were the sequence of events thereafter?

NEO POTSANE: Once he had told me that, in a matter of (...indistinct) it didn't happen, it didn't take long. Moolman stood up and he fired a shot. I was still crouching at that time. And then thereafter he crouched again and he recycled his weapon, the weapon and he kind of waited or something that told me that Moolman was not about to fire again because he stayed for some of the time which looked like to me that he was taking long to respond again. And when I looked at him I saw that he was actually scared. So I grabbed the gun from him and I stood up and.

MR CURRIN: When you stood up in which direction did you look?