Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-09

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, they did.   Some of the people jumped into the Sentra and they drove off, whereas Commandant Kloppers shouted at them, "We will meet you at the town hall".

MR PRINSLOO: Did you see that anyone cut someone's ear off at the scene?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I didn't.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the shells were picked up at the scene, what happened then, except for picking up the shells?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: The vehicles were set alight, and afterwards Commandant Martin got into the vehicle, where we then left and I asked them to drop me off at Commandant Martin's house, because my children were there and I were worried about them.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you part of the setting alight of the vehicles?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you at any stage saw an ear in the vehicle?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: If I remember correctly, the ear was mentioned.    A plastic bag was shown, I could not say if it was an ear inside or not.

MR PRINSLOO: And then, were you then dropped off at Deon Martin's smallholding?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, and that's where I left.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you at the Voortrekker Monument?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No.

MR PRINSLOO: On the 6th of January, were you arrested with the others?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Since you were arrested, were you with the others in detention, the other applicants?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, we were separate, according to section 29, where in two days I was in Soweto, the rest of the time I was in hospital, and when I got out of hospital, I went to Diepkloof, and that was almost three weeks later.

MR PRINSLOO: While you were in detention, were you injured?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, I was attacked by the - assaulted by the police, after which I landed in the hospital two days after the arrest.   I was not charged with the others, I was only seven days later charged.

MR PRINSLOO: Because of the injuries you sustained?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, and while I was, and because I was in hospital.

MR PRINSLOO: Why were you assaulted by the police?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: They said that, I do not know if I can use the words, they said that I was stubborn and I did not want to talk.

MR PRINSLOO: At what stage were you detained with the others?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: While we were waiting for the court case, I was there then separated from them for a week or two for operations on my shoulder, and after the court case, I was then completely separated from them.

MR PRINSLOO: So you were not in the Johannesburg Prison when the leader, Mr Terreblanche, came to visit?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I was there, yes, at that stage.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Diedericks, did you act upon your own, or did you act individually that evening?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I acted as a soldier, I saw myself as a soldier.

MR PRINSLOO: A soldier of whom?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I was an officer in the AWB movement and I followed orders from my direct head or Chief Commander Kloppers, which was our area commander.   I did it for God, my "volk" and "vaderland".

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage, General Oelofse was your district commander?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Commandant Kloppers was basically the section commander.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you promoted while you were detained?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, that is correct, I was promoted from "veldkornet" to a full commandant.

MR PRINSLOO: And when you submitted the application, were you then in prison?   You were not with the others?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I wasn't.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT

MR KNOETZE: Mr Diedericks, firstly can I refer you to page 12 from the bundle of applications, and it's that of Kloppers, the one I already referred to this morning, I want to read to you paragraph 17
"I arrived at the roadhouse at nine o'clock and Deon Martin brought them into attention.   I told them that the waiting is over and that the revolution would start that specific day and all over the country.   I also conveyed to them the instruction of General Oelofse.   They were told that General Oelofse wanted to see bodies, and I also handed out the two pipe shotguns to Visser and Martin van der Schyff.   I also told them we'd set up a roadblock where people will be questioned and that we should confiscate weapons and ammunition."
You would agree with me that if you look at this section of his affidavit or his application, that he did not give a weapon to you initially?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I agree, it's not written there, but on his instruction the weapon was given to Martin van der Schyff.

MR KNOETZE: Yes, this new turn in events also came about after I put it this morning on behalf of my client that the two pipe shotguns were actually not given to Van der Schyff and Visser at the roadhouse, but to Van der Schyff and yourself.    So necessarily you must also be closer to the truth, but you still have not actually spoken the truth.

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Every person can say what he wants, I know what the truth is.   Your client will speak the truth he wants, but I know what I am saying, I cannot speak for him.

MR KNOETZE: What is strange for me and the committee is that the truth, according to what Klopper made an oath to in his application, and all the applicants made an oath to this extent, I'm not going to repeat this, they all swore that the truth is that the two pipes were given to Visser and Van der Schyff, and now suddenly the truth has changed.

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I know what happened there.

MR PRINSLOO: With all respect, does Knoetze put it that Visser never had a weapon at the roadblock?

CHAIRPERSON: That is not what I understand.

MR PRINSLOO: With respect, Mr Chairman, at some stage the weapon must have landed in the possession of Visser, and Mr Knoetze's not putting that to anyone, because he says Van der Schyff had the weapon and not Visser.

MR KNOETZE: Mr Chairman, my learned friend missed something earlier today.    I put it on behalf of my client and I will repeat it now, that at the roadhouse the weapon was given to Van der Schyff and the other weapon was given to you, and later, at the smallholding, your weapon, your pipe was given to Etienne Visser?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I have stated, and I repeat it, I think that statement is incorrect.

MR KNOETZE: You see, just to confirm this point, in his evidence in this case, in other words a long time after his application and if he then made a mistake he could have corrected the mistake here when Kloppers testified here, and I read it on page 249
"I asked who had weapons and it was said three of them did not have weapons, Martin and Van der Schyff, Etienne Visser.   I gave two pipe shotguns to them."
I put it to you again that your evidence, the same as Kloppers' and Etienne's, was amended because of the fact that my applicant amended his, because he's no longer your friend?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I do not have contact with them, so what they say, they say, and what I say, I say.

MR KNOETZE: But you see at least your evidence is closer to the truth in the sense that you got it initially?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: That's correct.

MR KNOETZE: But I put it to you that you kept this weapon until you got to the smallholding, and only there was your weapon given to Etienne Visser?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I'm still saying that statement is false.

MR KNOETZE: And also, as you've heard, my client denied that he said, "Give me the weapon, I'll show you how to shoot kaffirs", he says he never said it.

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: That's what he says.