Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

DR BORAINE: [indistinct] want to consult with the Chairperson and my fellow Commissioners as to whether they would like to ask you questions now, or whether they would like to listen to your friends first may I do that, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's take a break until eleven.

DR BORAINE: Ms Ngewu, hello again.

MS NGEWU: Hello sir.

DR BORAINE: I just have one last question which I forgot to ask you and I'd like to do that now.  Are you ready?

MS NGEWU: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Ms Ngewu, did you receive a death certificate when your son was - was killed?

MS NGEWU: No I didn't.

DR BORAINE: Have you applied for one?

MS NGEWU: Yes I applied for it but they didn't give it to me - they said my son was never identified.

DR BORAINE: Your son was never identified.

MS NGEWU: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Even though there were two inquests and a burial.

MS NGEWU: Yes that's correct.

DR BORAINE: When was the last time you applied for the death certificate?

MS NGEWU: It was February.

DR BORAINE: Of this year?

MS NGEWU: Yes of this year.

DR BORAINE: Would you like to get a copy of that death certificate?

MS NGEWU: Yes I would like to have a copy of it please.

DR BORAINE: We will try and do that for you as a matter of urgency.  Thank you - thank you very much.

MS NGEWU: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Now I want to welcome again your friends and I am hoping that they all can hear what I am saying, all right.  I have to ask you to take the oath and we will do it in the following order, first of all Ms Irene Mtsingwa.
IRENE MTSINGWA Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much will you be seated please.  Then Ms Eunice Mia will you stand please.
EUNICE MIA THEMBISO  Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: And finally Ms  Khonele.

MS KHONELE: Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: Thank you very-very much indeed.  Now I will start with you Ms Mtsingwa and are you ready to tell us your story.

MS MTSINGWA: Yes I am ready but please excuse my feverish voice.  I am not sure if I am going to be heard correctly here, I am feverish.

DR BORAINE: I am so sorry to hear that and you might want to come as close to the microphone as possible and don't worry too much, just take it very slowly.  First perhaps tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are.

MS MTSINGWA: I am Ms Irene Mtsingwa my home is at Whittlesea.  I come from Whittlesea, I got married in the Transkei at [indistinct].  Thank you very much I am from Whittlesea, I got married in the Transkei at [indistinct] in Butterworth.  I have nine children but the ninth one is the subject today he is the one we are talking about today.  end of Tape 7, side B... - about the matter of the funeral Ms Ngewu has already covered that one, I am just going to talk about my own child.
 I was from work that day, it was on a Monday.  I just heard that some children have been shot.  There were seven of them, but I didn't know that one of those was my own child.  He didn't come back on that day, on Monday but usually he wasn't a person who usually comes back.  But just because he is a - you know he is a teenager some of them usually don't come back at night, that was one of those nights.
 But that day, I didn't really think that there was anything going to happen to him, because he wasn't naughty.  He wasn't well, the reason why he wasn't so well is because he had a terrible shock which he got because of the illness of his father.  Like I said I heard that there were seven, there were children who were shot at Guguletu but I wasn't - I didn't know that one of those was my child because I couldn't think why my child would be there in the first place.
 After a long time, after several days we were looking for him even in hospitals.  There were mischievous things that Mr Barnard who as a policeman use to do to the children, who use to be - who use to insult them.  But now we just thought that okay he may - he may be in the hospitals or even in prisons.
 During this period, one of my grandchildren was very ill and she was at Somerset Hospital.  When I saw him, I saw that no his or her days are numbered.  Some of my relatives helped me to look for my child who has gone - who has disappeared, nobody knew what happened to him.  We tried to look in the prisons and hospitals and my grandchild on Thursday passed away.
 In the meantime we still didn't know anything about the one has just lost, we just heard that somebody heard - saw him at Guguletu, so I just thought maybe he just visited at Guguletu, and I sent somebody to - to check - to check him out at the mortuary.  I gave them his ID, so that they can identify him at the mortuary.
 One of my neighbours who was my husband's friend, and also a friend of the family who is now in the rural areas, that's when now they found him in the mortuary.  That's where they identified him.  That's now how he was also numbered as one of the Guguletu 7 as how it is now called.  Well I accepted that because anyway that time our children didn't tell us anything about their activities because they were afraid of the boers.
 He wasn't so well even though he was serious, now when all this pain came back about the death of my child, I didn't even know where I was at that time.  But the worst part was to actually see this in the newspapers and the TV's where we saw our children lying on the ground and I saw the bullet wound on the left side of his head.  I saw this on the day of his funeral, I saw that the bullet wound was on the left side of his head.
 We also saw this even in the picture - I also saw this, he also had some wounds which I am not sure if they were bullet wounds on his back.  What happened was after they've been - they were shot, the same guns which were - were used to shoot them where put on the bodies, now I don't know how this was done.  Now the purpose of this was that the police wanted to accuse the victims themselves to say that is the victims who wanted to kill the police.  I asked myself something that I couldn't even answer it myself.
 I said why did the police shoot everybody, what will the police gain for shooting our children.  And why were they being killed, why were not - why were they not arrested.  They could have been shot even on the legs, or just anywhere in the body, where they wouldn't die of the wound.  I asked myself those questions, but I couldn't answer them.  But I was terribly hurt by this whole thing, because even I just heard - I just lost my grandma - my grandchild.
 We had two funerals in one week on Tuesday and on Thursday.  That's something that made me to be disorientated all together.  I forget some of these things, please forgive me.  You can just forgive me because I am old, I forget some of these things.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, what was the name of your - your son who was killed?

MS MTSINGWA: It was Simon Mtsingwa.

DR BORAINE: And how old was he?

MS MTSINGWA: In May he was going to be 24.

DR BORAINE: And what was he doing, was he studying was he working, was he out of a job, what was he doing before he was killed?

MS MTSINGWA: He had just finished school and he was just waiting to get a job.  And at that time, we were still trying to get a job for him at Ohlsons and he was waiting to go to the job the following week in the casualty.  He was going to be full time there, but now he got this.

DR BORAINE: You heard that your son was amongst the children who were killed and young people who were killed, from your friends or how did you get the news?

MS MTSINGWA: I heard this news from people who were from the mortuary, those are the people who actually identified him as one of the Guguletu 7 and also the lawyer who was there, told us that my son was one of the Guguletu 7 that's how I knew this.

DR BORAINE: When you heard that your son was killed and they said that they had seen the 
body, did you try and find out what had happened?