Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ermelo — 1997-05-22

MADODA MBOKANE: I will put it like this.  I don't know much about them being armed with firearms because they normally defended themselves with pangas and with some knopkierries.

RUSSELL ALLY: And is it true that The Comrades would often also attack people who they believed to be members of  the Black Cats ?

MADODA MBOKANE: No.  The Comrades to attack, it was because the Black Cats started attacking The Comrades before.  The Comrades realized that they won't stand for this and they have to protect themselves.

RUSSELL ALLY: I know you spoke about the police and saying that they collaborated with the Black Cats but did the community, The Comrades,. did they make attempts to go to the police to report on the activities of these so-called Black Cats ?  Do you have any knowledge of that ?

MADODA MBOKANE: Yes, we, The Comrades used to go to the police but the police never took the matter further.

RUSSELL ALLY: Apparently in the last few days in July 1990, just before, there was an attempt by police to try and bring these two groups together.  To bring the youth who were seen as Comrades and to bring the so-called Black Cats or Karate's was the other name used, to try and get them to resolve their differences.  Do you know about this meeting that the police tried to call late in July 1990 ?

MADODA MBOKANE: I don't know about that.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you know of any attempts which the police made to try and bring these groups together, to try and bring about some resolution of the conflict ?

MADODA MBOKANE: As I've explained before, I don't know much about that.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this Zwee Zwane, did you know him ?

MADODA MBOKANE: Yes, I knew him.

RUSSELL ALLY: And was he a leading member of the Black Cats ?

MADODA MBOKANE: Excuse me ?

RUSSELL ALLY: Was he a member of the Black Cats.    Was he seen as a leading member ?

MADODA MBOKANE: Correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: And how was he killed ?  Do you know ?  What did you hear about the way he was killed ?

MADODA MBOKANE: I heard from others that he has been killed and  I don't know who killed him.

RUSSELL ALLY: And how was he killed ?  Were you told that ?  Did you hear perhaps if he was shot, stabbed ?  What ....

MADODA MBOKANE: I heard he was shot.

RUSSELL ALLY: .... has remained.

MADODA MBOKANE: It looks like it has subsided.

RUSSELL ALLY: What are relationships like now in, what's the relationship like between people who perceive to be on the one side and those on the other side, now in the township ?

MADODA MBOKANE: Yes, it looks peaceful because Comrades can go any place in the township and we live in peace.

RUSSELL ALLY: And are there still people who were members of what was then called the Black Cats who still live in the community ?

MADODA MBOKANE: That's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: And are they also safe ? And would you say that they also consider themselves to be quite safe ?  Do they feel safe as well in the community ?

MADODA MBOKANE: It looks like that.  They seem to be safe too.

RUSSELL ALLY: And you personally, by coming to the Commission, what are you hoping for ?  What were your reasons for making this statement and coming to the Commission ?

MADODA MBOKANE: It was because I was so badly injured, I thought maybe the Commission might do something to help me personally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much Madoda.

MR LEWIN: Thank you Doctor Ally.  Tom ?  Madoda could I ask you, you say you're unemployed at the moment.  Is that correct ?

MADODA MBOKANE: That's correct.

MR LEWIN: Do you have any particular skills that you have developed yourself which might get you some sort of employment ?

MADODA MBOKANE: I don't have any particular skill at the time.  Before, I used to sing.  I was a musician but not any more, since the event, because I was injured in my feet.

MR LEWIN: Have you thought of trying perhaps of trying to find something like that ?  To develop you singing skills ?

MADODA MBOKANE: The way I was injured, I was a drummer but I don't see myself making it in that area anymore since this event.

MR LEWIN: Have you approached anyone about the possibility of some sort of disability grant ?

MADODA MBOKANE: No, I haven't.

MR LEWIN: And I mean have you spoken to anyone about the need that you obviously have, which  you've expressed yourself about how to get over this harsh experience ?  Have you approached anyone for counselling for instance ?

MADODA MBOKANE: No.

MR LEWIN: I think that's something that we would recommend that you do.  I think I would like to, in thanking you for coming forward, I think what, you have something unique to tell.  You have your own story which is very unique and a very strong part of that story is that, as you put it, you thought you were going to die when you stood on this grenade.  That is something that is both very terrifying and at the same time must somehow give you strength because you survived an attack which could have killed you.  You were in a situation, in this conflict between, for instance between The Cats and The Comrades.  You were in a position where you could have died.  Is that not so ?  Others died around you and you have survived that which must be a great source of relief on the one hand but also of strength.  So I think what we would, in thanking you for coming and in thanking you also as you say, you've come  forward to make sure the people know what happened and to see whether we can help.  We can help but perhaps I think  the more important thing is that you can help yourself and what we would urge you to do is to start doing that because people will look up to you.  You're still a very young person.  You have talents you need to develop those talents.  You need also to seek help from the community, to ask how you can develop it.  Certainly we will investigate the possibility that there might be for you but we'd like, in thanking you I'd like to say, you know, use the strength that you have, that you have shown  in coming forward and having survived that attack.  Thank you very much for coming.