Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-02

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: Yes.  I'm not aware of the details but I know that as far as our crew was concerned, the former managing director, he personally visited all the next of kin of our crew.  I was not involved in that.  I was only involved in the next of kin of the passengers.  But I know that he made a point of visiting the crew's next of kin.  He visited the pilots' wives and also the cabin crew's wives and next of kin and as far as I can recall there was a different set of rules applicable to payments to be made to next of kin of people who were actually working and were on duty whilst a disaster took place, it's different from a passenger with an ordinary ticket.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: You are aware of the fact that Mrs Uys is very unhappy?  Do you know about the fact that she feels that she was dropped by SAA?

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: No, I am not aware of that.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you.

MR MAGADHLA: Mr Willemse, were you ever aware of allegations that this plane carried dangerous material, dangerous cargo?

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: Do you mean allegations?

MR MAGADHLA: From next of kin of some of the passengers and from a lot of other people.  Newspapers included.

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: I am aware that long after the accident there was speculation at one stage in the newspapers.  I cannot recall exactly when it was but there was speculation in the newspapers that there had been dangerous goods on board.  That would surely have been about four to five years, it might have been more recent than that.  I am aware of that yes.  I read that.
 It must have been in one or other English newspaper that there was speculation about this possibility.  So I do have knowledge of that type of speculation.

MR MAGADHLA: Are you saying your knowledge of such would have been confined to it having been expressed by newspapers and others whereas in this case there was actually the wife of the pilot who also complained, would you have regarded that as part of the rumour or the conspiracy by those people, the papers and others?

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: I'm personally not aware of as you say the wife of a pilot who complained about dangerous cargo.  All that I can tell you is that I am aware of the fact that there was speculation about this in the newspapers, about the fact that dangerous goods were on board.  I don't even know if they used the expression dangerous goods on board, specifically the Helderberg.
 I am also not aware of the fact that there was a specific person, such as, for example the wife of a pilot who spoke to me or anyone else or where I was present and said that there were dangerous goods on board that aeroplane, no.

MR MAGADHLA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Magadhla.  Anything?

MS TERREBLANCHE: I think we have no further questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Terreblanche.  Mr Willemse, thank you very much for having come and for having taken the trouble to come even with the shortest of notices and we value the information that you have been able to share with us.  You are excused.

MARTINUS GERHARDUS WILLEMSE: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: I think this will be a convenient time to take the tea adjournment.  We're adjourned until twenty five past.
HEARING ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: Are we ready to start?  Mr Nadel, thank you very much for being here.  This is a closed enquiry held in terms of Section 29 of the Act.  All evidence that should be taken under oath remains confidential and will so remain until the Commission releases it subject to the requirements of the Act.
 So everybody who is here has the permission to be here by reason of the fact that they are either invited to be here or have been subpoenaed to be here or are employees of the Commission.  I was going to ask Commissioner Glenda Wildschut to swear you in before you testify but she is not here, she is otherwise engaged.  
 She forms part of the panel.  She is in the Rehabilitation's and Reparations Committee.  I am also one of the Commissioners who is going to be, who is chairing this panel.  I am in the Human Rights Violations Committee.  Mr Magadhla will assist us in the panel.  He is sitting to my right and is a member of the investigative unit.
 The investigator who has done most of the investigative work, in fact actually all of it, is Chrystelle Terreblanche who is sitting to our right and she has Dr Klatzow, David Klatzow who is a forensic expert and who has been contracted to the Commission to assist us in the presentation of the evidence.
 In the interest of progress I will therefore swear you in, if you can stand.  There is a red button there which you will press whenever you speak, thank you.  Now what are your full names for the record Mr Nadel?

VERNON NADEL: Vernon Nadel.

VERNON NADEL: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: The witness has been sworn in Ms Terreblanche.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Thank you Mr Chair.  You may sit, thank you Mr Nadel.  Thanks for coming.  Mr Nadel we have invited you to come here to just tell us about your role on that fateful night at the ZUR centre, Springbok Radio Centre at the former Jan Smuts Airport.  We believe you have come all the way from Argentina and we are very thankful to you for making that time.  Commissioner Ntsebeza I think that Dr Klatzow will do all the questioning in this one.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, Dr Klatzow?

DR KLATZOW: Thank you Mr Commissioner.  Thank you very much Mr Nadel.  Mr Nadel, when did you join SAA?

VERNON NADEL: 2nd June 1969.

DR KLATZOW: And by the time of the Helderberg operation what was your position?

VERNON NADEL: I was then the duty officer in flight operations.

DR KLATZOW: Junior officer?

VERNON NADEL: Duty officer.

DR KLATZOW: The duty officer.  What did your position entail?

VERNON NADEL: I was responsible for overseeing the flight operations, the radio station ZUR, as well as if and when any crew needed flight plans.  This job entailed day shift as well as night shift.  Obviously the functions at night were different to the functions during the day.

DR KLATZOW: Now is it correct to say that ZUR is a permanent radio station at what was then Jan Smuts Airport?

VERNON NADEL: Yes, at the time, yes.

DR KLATZOW: And is it correct to say that it was manned twenty four hours a day by a staff of three people?

VERNON NADEL: No, ZUR wasn't manned by three people.  It was manned by one radio operator.  The night shift consisted of a duty officer as well as the operations controller and the radio operator in ZUR.

DR KLATZOW: What was Gavin Dick's function the evening that you were there?

VERNON NADEL: Gavin Dick was the radio operator.

DR KLATZOW: In other words there were at least two people there that night?

VERNON NADEL: Yes.  I don't know whether you know the set-up as far as what the building looks like.  There's not two people sitting in front of the radios.  There's only the radio officer.

DR KLATZOW: And is he geographically quite distant from you, the duty officer?

VERNON NADEL: No.  You're probably looking at 20 yards, 20 metres.  But there is a door separating the radio station and the ops room.

DR KLATZOW: Right.  What was the difference in rank between you and Mr Gavin Dick?

VERNON NADEL: If you want to take it on the scale of a clerk, he was a clerk grade 1 and I would have been a senior clerk, with one gap between.  So in other words I was two ahead of him.

DR KLATZOW: Is it also true that ZUR has a permanent tape recording of all the messages which are transmitted on that transmitter?

VERNON NADEL: Yes.

DR KLATZOW: And that the tapes are twenty four hour, slightly over twenty four hour tapes?

VERNON NADEL: I'm not too sure on the length of the tape but they are.

DR KLATZOW: They're not thirty minute tapes?

VERNON NADEL: No no, you're looking at probably an eight to twelve hour tape which does change over once it ends it automatically goes to the next one.