Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MR MAY: And then when the trial was over I went to stay in Port Elizabeth and most of the COSAS leadership at this stage was out of prison.  And at the beginning of 1982 we started to regroup again and form - established COSAS branches again.   And then in February I went to Johannesburg I  attended the funeral of Neil Agget who was - who died in detention at that stage.
 There were about five of us from Port Elizabeth.  After the funeral of Neil Agget we went to Brandford to visit Ms Mandela's place.  We were supposed to have a meeting there but the meeting couldn't take place because some of the delegates didn't arrive.  Whilst we were leaving Brandfort we were detained in Brandfort by the security branch there and then we were kept in the cells for a about two days.
 And then during the week I think on Monday or Tuesday they released us saying that the reason why they detained us, we were cheeky we didn't answer the questions they wanted us to answer.  Then when I arrived in Port Elizabeth about two weeks - after about two weeks in the middle of the night some people knocked at the door at my home.
 And then my brother answered the door and then some people came in, they said they are looking for Mr May, when he said he was Mr May they said no we are not looking for you, we are looking for your brother.  So he - they woke me up and took me to Sanlam police cells in Port Elizabeth, and then there were about four policemen.
 I recognized Mr Bahlekazi Zitongata and also there was Roelofse as well.  So they took me to the cells, and then they wanted to know about our visit to Brandfort and my activities in Queenstown and Port Elizabeth which I told them.  And then they wanted to know why did we visit Brandfort, I told them we were suppose to have a meeting but it didn't take place.
 And then they asked if I could be their informer, and then  I would be paid for that but I said to them I was not looking for employment.  I was a student so I cannot I mean do that kind of a thing.  And besides I was part of COSAS leadership so if I could attempt to implicate some other leaders of COSAS that would mean implicating myself as well so I could not do such that kind of a thing.
 And then Mr Roelofse said to me that do you see we have done to Siphiwo Mthimkulu, he can't do anything now he is just useless.  And if you do not want to work with us we are going to do the same thing to you. Then  I said to them, well I'm used to being tortured and I'm used to being I mean detained so there's nothing that can make me  - I mean work for them at this stage.
 So they said okay they will deal with me and then they released me at the early hours of the day.  And then after about two weeks I heard from other COSAS members that there was a receipt that was found at the place we used to frequent in New Brighton, Port Elizabeth.  And this receipt had my name on it and a certain amount of R500,00 or R600,00 which to some other people meant that maybe I was a paid up police informer.
 So there was some kind of a division within COSAS some other people wanted to believe it and some other people didn't want to believe it.  They were saying that how would they would go and drop a receipt at that place where they know that I mean everybody used to go there and it's where when we want to have some meetings we'd start and proceed to a place where we would meet.
 And then I  couldn't get hold of the receipt and I couldn't challenge that in Court.  But  just decided to not to be involved to any political activity at that stage until I could have a chance of proving to the public that what they did was blackmail me.  Because they couldn't convince me or make me to be their informer so they resorted to blackmail.  I didn't have a chance of - is of  proving  that to the public.
 But now I've decided to take up this opportunity that has been created by establishment of the Truth Commission to tell the public that the police blackmailed me because I refused to be their informer, thank you.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Mr May there are a couple of questions that I would like to ask you.  In the - in the statement that you gave to our statement takers there is a mention of police officer called Tonzata but I think now you said Tongata.

MR MAY: Tongata ja.

MARY BURTON: Just so that we get that straight - Tongata.  And the other person then in the - on that occasion in the Sanlam offices in PE was Roelofse is that right?

MR MAY: That's right.

MARY BURTON: Now, and they are the people that you suspect of spreading the information that you were now acting for them as a paid informer is that right?

MR MAY: I suspect them to be part of that group that is responsible for that.

MARY BURTON: One of the coup that you had was that there was an attempt to get your handwriting, could you tell about that.

MR MAY: When they detained me that evening, they made me to write certain sentences repeatedly, I was writing on an A4 page and then at the bottom of the page they asked me sign.

MARY BURTON: And they were the same people who threatened to do to you the same as what happened to Siphiwo Mthimkulu.

MR MAY: They were the same people.

MARY BURTON: You mentioned also in your statement somebody who had told you that the rumor was circulating that you had been persuaded to act as an informer.

MR MAY: Yes it was Fundile Mafungosi whose is  at present national organizer of AZAPO.   He came from the executive meeting and told me that there was this information that has been discussed by COSAS executive .and that the executive was divided because of this issue, so they do not know how to deal with it.

MARY BURTON: Also some people do not want to believe it and some of them want to believe it.  Would you say that, that was something that was done quite often in those days?

MR MAY: Yes, some people told us some people were taken by the Security police and driven around the township against their will creating the impression that they were friends of the police or were part of the Security police so as to confuse the public.

MARY BURTON: Is there anything that we have left out you want to tell the Commission?

MR MAY: No.

MARY BURTON: Well thank you very much for telling us your story, and with all the details I think before we ask Mr Lamani to corroborate your evidence perhaps we could ask if any of the Commissioners want to ask any questions  end of Tape 6  Side A ...

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] forces, to spread a rumor and an  impression that somebody was their informer - was to move the person around in the townships with them against their will

MR MAY: That's right.

<UNKNOWN>: And did that then create the impression was acting in cahoots with the Security Forces?

MR MAY: That is correct.

<UNKNOWN>: And was if not so that on some occasions having done that they would release the person even though the person was a known activist and had been active in the township.

MR MAY: Sometimes they would release you into an area where they know that the sentiments of the public are very high and if the public have seen you driving around with Security police they would think that you are their informer and you would be killed.

<UNKNOWN>: In fact is it not solve that  perhaps to your knowledge documented cases of people were killed by the necklace method as a consequence of those who have skills to spread the rumor about people being informers.

MR MAY: Definitely yes, although some of the murders were committed by the people in the townships.  But  the real people behind those murders were the Security people.

<UNKNOWN>: Yes, now is it your view or an impression that your handwriting was being sought by the police in order for them to use it on the receipt that allegedly indicated that you had been receiving money from the police?