Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-22

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, no, not - he doesn't say that that was when it was started.  You see, his version is that the murder of Mr Evans was going to take place round about March/April 1989 because that's when he flew Peaches up to Johannesburg.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Sir, I cannot remember the dates precisely but I know that Evans was given to Mr Maree in 1989, beginning of 1989 and I want to say that in March it was given to Mr Maree and Mr Maree took a long time with this until about May.  Afterwards he came to us with the address etc and it was transferred to Mr van Zyl at a later stage.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You see Mr van Zyl tells us that the in-house, or let me not use that word because he says it wasn't a proper in-house, but he says his involvement, he was called to a meeting concerning the Gavin Evans project in March 1989 and - sorry the dates I gave you before aren't quite correct.  He said - it's round about late April, early May 1989, he says:  "One week after Easter", are the words he used, "Peaches was flown to Johannesburg to kill Gavin Evans".  Alright?  That's his version.  Now I want to put to you that Evans's - the plan to assassinate Gavin Evans was not abandoned in May '89 because all that really happened was that Peaches was flown up to Johannesburg, he wasn't able to kill Evans at that stage.  The CCB didn't abandon the plan to kill Evans, what they did was, they were waiting for an opportunity where they would be able to get better information as to his movements, his proper address and so on and so forth and they would then attempt to kill him at that stage.  Do you agree with that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I agree Mr Chairman.  I want to think that the Evans' case was talked about later again and in that way Jack wanted to talk to the Chairman about Evans again.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, because that's why you were still discussing it in August 1989, so in so far as Mr van Zyl's statement suggests that the Evans project was abandoned in April/May 1989, it is incorrect.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: You will remember that the project was given to him with the task to execute it.  The pre-studies and presentation had been done by myself and Mr Basson and the information was done by Mr Maree, so as far as he and his infrastructure are concerned, yes, it was abandoned.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Peaches himself says in his statement that what he was told before he left Johannesburg was that the project was being postponed, not terminated, he says the project was being postponed for execution till a later date.  Isn't that likely?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It's possible that Mr van Zyl told him that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now just tell us what was happening, what kind of discussions were you having in August?  What was the plan in August?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I wasn't there.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But it refers specifically to you, it says that you must ...(intervention)

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: "Jack talks tomorrow to Chairman about Evans"

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, no, go back to page 30.

CHAIRPERSON: Page 30 at the top on the right-hand side.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, that is
"Bert must chase Grosskopff and have his supporters attacked, for example Evans".

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, but the notation says that it's you that are in charge of that, that you must hunt Grosskopff and kill his supporters.  You are Bert.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So why is the diary entry referring to you?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Because I was told to try and find Hein Grosskopff.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, but it's obvious that Mr Verster would involve you as the Regional Manager in this process, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So tell us what instructions you were given.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: To gather information about Grosskopff and about his supporters, including Mr Evans.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright, so you weren't able to kill Mr Evans earlier during the year.  What steps were you taking now in August to make sure that the job was finally completed?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, there wasn't a new address available, or nothing.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But why was Mr Verster supposed to meet with the Chairman about Evans on the day after 24 August?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I don't know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So you can't recall any further steps that were taken after Peaches left Johannesburg in May '89 to follow up on the Evans project?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you've just told us you couldn't find out any additional details as to his whereabouts?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It's true.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So somebody must have been tasked to do that.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, they would have told me if somebody got it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Are you trying to suggest it was just all left hanging in the air?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes it was left.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Just left hanging in the air?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It was left hanging in the air.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Your version doesn't make sense, because ...(intervention)

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It does to me.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Well I don't think it makes sense to anybody else because ...(intervention)

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: You're assuming that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Because if, as you've already conceded, the Evans project was going to be pursued after Peaches had left Johannesburg, it logically follows that somebody would have to take up that task, do you agree with me?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So somebody would have to endeavour to establish his address, his whereabouts and come up with a plan to kill him, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It's true.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So who did that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Nobody in Region 6 at that point.

MR LAX: Sorry, may I intervene just while you're conferring there?  Surely as Regional Manager of Region 6, it was the internal region, you or one of your men would have been tasked with that job?

MR KAHANOVITZ: We were tasked, it was abandoned and afterwards there was not another project about Evans.

MR LAX: But these entries make it clear it wasn't abandoned and you conceded that.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I beg your pardon?

MR LAX: And you've conceded that.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Conceded?

MR LAX: You've conceded that it wasn't abandoned.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR LAX: So it's inconceivable to me that if it wasn't abandoned, that you did nothing about it.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, we did nothing about it.  The possibility that the  information around Evans could continue, yes, I agree according to the entries it seems like it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But Mr Burger, you've already said - sorry.

MR LAX: I just want to say - what steps did you take on Grosskopff, at least?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: On?

MR LAX: On Mr Grosskopff?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I arrived nowhere with Mr Grosskopff.

MR LAX: No, that doesn't tell me what steps you took, that just says you didn't get anywhere.  What steps did you take?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: We did inquiries and it seemed that he was overseas.

MR LAX: And his supporters?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: And his supporters, no, we concentrated first just on Mr Grosskopff.

MR LAX: Yes, but how did you "jaag" him and his supporters?  "Jaag" can mean chase as well, hey?  Follow up as opposed to hunt.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.  Jag with one a is hunt, "aa" is chase, so it can't be hunt.  I started to concentrate on Mr Grosskopff and the information was that he was abroad.

MR LAX: The whole purpose here was of the link with Evans.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR LAX: That's the whole objective.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It was left behind because of other work we had to do.

MR LAX: So the fact that all of this is here for example on page 30, you didn't really pay it much mind then on your own version because you were busy with other things?