Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-07-28

MS LOCKHAT: Chairperson, the next amnesty applicant is Mr Gerrie Barnard.

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: (sworn states)

MR MALAN: You may be seated.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Barnard, your amnesty application is embodied in Volume 1, page 78 to 80, that is the formal document?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the incidents for which you apply for amnesty, appear on page 81 to 85, Annexure A, is that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And your political motivation appears in Annexure B, page 86 to 93?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you confirm the contents of this application?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: During 1988, where were you stationed?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: I was stationed at the Security Branch Piet Retief.

MS VAN DER WALT: And under whose command did you resort?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: Warrant Officer Pienaar, Chairperson.

MR MALAN: If it is possible Mr Barnard, could you speak up, I cannot hear you?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: I am sorry.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was your rank?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: I was a Sergeant Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were one of the persons who participated there, you were one of the lowest ranks, is that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: At that stage, this is now June 1988, how long were you attached to the Security Branch at Piet Retief?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: Approximately a year.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you were also involved in the first instance where the Toyota Corolla was involved, wherein persons were killed?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: You have heard the evidence of Mr De Kock and Mr Pienaar, is that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you are aware that four persons were killed in that incident?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know of any weapons and explosives which were planted on the deceased, or did you not know of it?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: I knew about it at a later stage.

MS VAN DER WALT: Only at a later stage?   What was your instruction in that event, what did you have to do?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: We received instructions that an infiltration would take place on the Houtkop/Piet Retief road and I went along with a group of Colonel De Kock, of which Colonel De Kock was the Commander to a point on the Houtkop/Piet Retief road where we took up position and where this incident according to our instruction, would take place and what we had also done was that we went there as it is known to the Commission, and that is where it happened.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know that the persons would be led into an ambush?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you fire shots yourself?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: Yes, I did Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: What type of weapon did you have?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: I had an Uzzi, a hand carbine.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were you in any way involved in the planning and the negotiations before the time, before this incident?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: No Chairperson, only partially, it was Warrant Officer Pienaar and  Colonel De Kock did the planning and afterwards we were informed as to what would happen.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who gave you instructions to accompany them?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: We were under instructions of Warrant Officer Pienaar and Colonel De Kock.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the second incident on the 12th of June 1988, were you also involved there?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And were you also aware that the persons would be lured into an ambush?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you also fire shots during this incident?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: With the same weapon?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did  you see whether these persons had any weapons with them after the incident?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: After the incident, as I could see my actions there, I did not become involved with the vehicle, I remained back from the vehicle and if I recall correctly, Warrant Officer Pienaar searched through the vehicles and AK47 rifles and handgrenades were found in the vehicles.

MS VAN DER WALT: Is it correct that because you were a junior Officer, you kept a low profile, you only had an instruction to be present at the ambush and fire shots and furthermore you had nothing else to do?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: You then - just a moment - you have also made a statement, it was also to Brigadier Van Wyk, is that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: That was on the 21st of June 1989, it is embodied in Bundle 3(a) Chairperson, pages 3 and 4.  Do you recall that you made such a statement?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And that is the only statement?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And in this statement, there are certain untruths?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: You mention that the occupants of the vehicle, that is on page 4 Chairperson, paragraph 3, that the persons would be arrested, is that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.  That was not the intention.

MS VAN DER WALT: So what is in this statement is incorrect?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is right Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: As well as the second last paragraph on page 2, that there would have been a pulling off vehicle with a blue flash light, was that correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: It is correct in the statement, but that was not there, that is not how it happened.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the fact that Major De Kock had shouted that they were the police, did that happen?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: No, that is also a lie.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did it come about that you made a statement that was not correct?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: This was to fit in with the post mortem inquest which at that stage was being handled by Brigadier Van Wyk.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who proposed to you that you put these untruths in your statement?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: It was Brigadier Van Wyk.

MS VAN DER WALT: When you made the statement you were still a Sergeant?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And still stationed at Piet Retief?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: You apply for amnesty for both of these instances for murder as well as any other offence which might flow therefrom?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: As well as the crime of perjury and defeating the ends of justice?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And any other unlawful act which might flow from this?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Van der Walt.  Mr Prinsloo, do you have any questions?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Barnard, Piet Retief Branch and the great area that it had to investigate, had a relatively small staff which had the responsibility of combating this large degree of insurgency?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: According to the evidence, there was a high number of insurgencies during which Piet Retief was used in Eastern Transvaal and Natal?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And at the time of this action, you regarded it as a general action in the execution of your duties, in protecting your country and combat terrorism so that the government of the day, could remain in power?

GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD: That is correct.