Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

DR BORAINE: 20A/20 it wasn't the shotguns that killed those youth.  And these children didn't have anything with them.  They were not armed.  So we just really can't understand what had happened.  That's the only thing I can say to the community here.

DR BORAINE: It's a very hard story to tell and I'm very grateful to you for telling it to us.  Just a couple of very short questions.  First, how old was your son when he died?

WITNESS:   He was 20 years old.

DR BORAINE: And his friends who were with him were more or less the same age?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  Their parents would know.  It would be the parents who would say, "Even mine or here was this old or that one was that old".

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Did your son belong to any organization?  Was he interested in politics at all?

WITNESS:  Yes, he had joined UDF.

DR BORAINE: Were you able to - I know that you've told us that this happened as a great big shock - did anybody see who these people were?  How were they dressed?  How many were there?  Did they come in a van?  Any information at all?

WITNESS:   I really did not know, because we were inside the house.  We had closed the door.  This thing happened at round 2am, towards dawn.  I didn't see anybody.  We were very afraid to peep out.  We just ran and hid under the bed.  Nobody opened the door to check.  I didn't know if they were white people or whether they were African people, whether they were wearing uniform or private.  We were so scared.  We were petrified.  We were shaking.  We just hid.  We also thought they were coming to us.  We thought they were also going to smash everybody, because this sound was heard all over the place.

DR BORAINE: /Have you

DR BORAINE: 20A/22 Have you heard anything or read any newspapers or any radio report about who could have killed your son?

WITNESS:   I haven't heard anything.  That's why I'm requesting you.  We used to go to the court hearing, but nothing came out of it, until we gave up.  Even those who were going inside, those people who used to come inside the court for hearing, they used to cover their faces.  We only saw their shoes, but the whole case was never pursued.  The next thing I heard people that were putting down their names, so I came here.  I thought maybe they would explain why they shot these children, because I really don't know anything.

DR BORAINE: Can you remember where the court hearing took place - which town, where?  In Durban?

WITNESS:   It was in Durban.

DR BORAINE: We can make some enquiries about that.  You say there was a court case but nobody was ever found guilty of killing those children?

WITNESS:   We used to go to court.  These people were covered in their face - they were hidden.  We just saw their shoes.  We didn't even see their surnames.  They don't even seem to be local people.  Their surnames are strange surnames.  Some of them sounded like Sotho names.  They just looked like some animals.  I don't think they were human beings from here.  They're not even common names, but they used to hide them.  We never saw them, only the shoes we saw.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Let me just ask you one final question.  Have you heard of a place or a case called Vlakplaas?

WITNESS:   I don't know what is that.

DR BORAINE: There was a big court case where a number of people, who were in the police and former police who confessed that they had murdered many people, and some of them

DR BORAINE: /mentioned this

DR BORAINE: 20A/25 mentioned this place.  So we are going to try and find out for you and, as soon as we have some information, we will come back to you again.  We are grateful to you for coming and we are very sad with you and with the other three children who were killed so tragically.  I hand back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Is there someone with a question?  Ilan.

MR LAX: Sorry, just one question.  You said it was at a court in Durban, this case.  Which court was it?  Was it the Magistrate's Court or the Supreme Court?  Are you able to tell us?  It will just help us narrow the search for the records.

WITNESS:   I do not remember well.  I will go back to the parents of these other families and I will see if I get some more information from them, then I'll bring it back to you.  I have forgotten - we had forgotten about this issue because the case wasn't pursued.  I had given up myself.  I had forgotten about these things.

MR LAX: We appreciate that.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama.  We know these are shocking things that happened to you.  May you please be healed and God help you.  Thank you very much.
/DR BORAINE
20A/27

DR BORAINE: Chairperson, I call Avra Mdluli to the witness stand.  Could you please indicate which of you is Avra Mdluli?  Could I ask you to please identify yourself?  Are you Avra Mdluli?

INTERPRETER: Avra Mdluli is not here.  There is Mazwi Mdluli and Siza Mhlongo.
20B/0

DR BORAINE: You have come to talk about the troubles in Chesterville.  Is that right?

SIZA CYRIL MHLONGO: Yes.

DR BORAINE: We know that there are many, many people who suffered in Chesterville, and we are going to have to have more hearings, where other people can tell their story as well, but I'm going to ask you if you will tell your story today about the house that was attacked and burnt and a child killed, but before you do, I will ask you to please stand.

SIZA CYRIL MHLONGO: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Please be seated.  Just so that I can make absolutely sure, could you please tell the Commission your full names, please.

WITNESS:   Siza Cyril Mhlongo.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  I'm going to hand over now to my colleague, Mr Lax.  Thank you.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Mhlongo, are you going to speak on behalf of the Mdluli family?  Just so that I can confirm this.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Before I proceed with your evidence, let me just say that, for the sake of those assembled here, the Commission has received a number of statements from a number of families from Chesterville.  We apologise that they can't all be heard today and, with the Chairperson's

MR LAX: /permission, if

MR LAX: 20B/1 permission, if I could just mention those families and their relatives who died in Chesterville and ask them if they could just stand up as I call out their names, please.  Jeanette Ngcobo, who lost a son, Siphiwe.  Fawu (?) Ngomezulu, the brother of Russell Ngomezulu.  Mrs Ngubane, who lost a son Kuzu.  Mrs Nxumalo, who lost her son-in-law and had her house burnt and her car destroyed.  Ntololo Mazibuko, who had her father Zinti and her brother Zama die in Chesterville.  And then Thandi Memela, who lost her home.  Thank you very much.  Mr Mhlongo, where do you live at present?

WITNESS:   I stay in Chesterville ... [break in recording].

MR LAX: And how were you connected to the Mdluli family?

WITNESS:   My mother is from Mdluli.

MR LAX: Are you a son of that family or not exactly?

WITNESS:  My mother of - the mother of Mdluli, the woman of Mdluli and my mother are born in the same place.

MR LAX: The story you are going to tell us about took place during January 1987.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: And involved an attack on the household of the Mdluli's, where the house was attacked and burnt and a child was killed.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is true.

MR LAX: Can you please tell us about that?

WITNESS:   On that day I was looking at the card from the hospital.  It was on the 9th January.  I was asleep on that day.  It was at night.  Let me just explain a bit.  There is a four room that had doubles.  There is a four room this side and the other side it's - and this side it's Mdluli and on the other side it's also Mdluli as well.  When I was asleep I got frightened, but I can't say what frightened me.  I got

MR LAX: /up.  I was