Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR VAN WYK: Now we know that there were two incidents at Lancet Hall in Jeppie Street where certain people were injured and in Von Williegh Street where a person was killed.  Could you assist the Committee and indicate when you went to Lancet Hall, could you position it with a time in respect to those two incidents?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair it's difficult to say, to put the incidents in relation to time but I can only, if that's the question, respond to what I did, why I went there and what happened if that's part of the question but as to the times itself, I cannot.

MR VAN WYK: Did you enter Lancet Hall that morning?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I did not.

MR VAN WYK: Did you speak to guards outside of Lancet Hall?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes I spoke to someone called Smanga (?).

MR VAN WYK: Is that at the foyer of Lancet Hall?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: It's at the entrance.

MR VAN WYK: Was there any indication to you that anybody was injured during the shooting incident that morning?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: He did not tell me that.

MR VAN WYK: Did you hear from anybody on that morning that there were people injured at Lancet Hall?

CHAIRPERSON: You mean whilst he was at Lance Hall?

MR VAN WYK: That's correct Mr Commissioner, whilst being there.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair I spoke to no one else except Smanga (?).

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see any evidence around you of anybody having been shot?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No My Lord, no.

MR VAN WYK: Excuse me, so nobody told you that anybody had been injured, is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That's correct.

MR VAN WYK: May I just refer you to your evidence at the inquest Mr Beea.  I leave that point there.  Mr Chairman there's just one other point I want to raise to this witness.  Whilst you were firing towards the crowd, did you see any of the marchers falling down?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I did not.

MR VAN WYK: Mr Beea I want to put it to you in respect of the objectors on whose behalf I appear, they will deny that they were armed with firearms or that they were any part of a group attacking Shell House and they will tender to this Committee that they were shot unjustifiably.  Have you got any comment on that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: My only comment Honourable Chair is the (indistinct) of what they say.

MR VAN WYK: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I think in fairness to your clients he would not know who your clients were and your clients may well have been people who were unarmed but he would not know that your clients were there and they were unarmed.  Isn't that so?

MR VAN WYK: Yes but I'm in fairness just putting it to him that he has an opportunity to respond to that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VAN WYK: I don't want to hear at the end of this hearing that it was not challenged or it was not put to the witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN WYK

MR DORFLING: Mr Beea may I enquire from you, at the time when you saw the marchers from the top floor, from the boardroom you decided to go down and as I understood your evidence, the idea was that you would go down and you would actually warn the people positioned at street level at the corners of Plein and King George Street.  Did I understand that correctly?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: It's one of the reasons that I went down, yes.

MR DORFLING: You also at a later stage said you wanted to alert them, alert them to what?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Can I combine this?  I wanted to warn them, I wanted to alert them, I wanted to inform them that there was another group that was approaching Shell House from de Villiers Street which I believed at the place where they were, unless you were at the extreme corner to be able to see through, if you were not at the corner you would not be in a position to see that group so those people who were there I believe that they ought to have been told that they should be on the lookout because there is this other group that is coming.

MR DORFLING: Did you perceive the situation to be that those people might be in danger should that group proceed further down de Villiers Streets and come into King George Street?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes.

MR DORFLING: Did you in actual fact, on arriving at ground level, go to the guards concerned and warn them?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: It was not done in a manner in which you ask the question, if I understand.  Maybe by way of illustration I may clarify that point, that as I walked out towards the corner and I turned I never stopped for a minute or paused to say to this individual person, here are these people.  I said this whilst I was moving because I myself had to be alert and had to watch that corner so I was under the impression, I assumed that as I passed and said there are these groups coming, people might have heard but I never paused for a minute to say to this individual, this is what is happening.

MR DORFLING: Do I understand you correctly, is it your evidence that as you ran past the guards positioned at the corner, you did alert them to the oncoming groups, you did say, here are these people, whilst you were running past.  Is that what you're saying?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I did say that there is a group that is coming from the other direction, yes.

MR DORFLING: Which of the guards did you speak to at that point in time?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair I never paused or stopped to speak to any individual whilst doing this.

MR DORFLING: So you run past a number of guards, you see them and you shout to them here are those people.  Can't you recall a single face amongst the guards that you saw there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: We were all wearing white bullet proof vests and as I said I never paused for a minute to look at the faces because that's not what I had intended to do.  May main concern and my main worry was to find a position behind the pillars so that should anything happen I should be covered and therefore my concentration was not at whose where, as I said and because I never stopped or paused to say, I cannot recall a face, but there were people outside.

MR DORFLING: It is not a trick question Mr Beea, I don't want to tie you down to a specific position for a specific individual, I just want to know in general.  As you sit here today can you not recall the face of a single security guard that you saw there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair at the inquest I did say and I want to repeat here, that this is not in relation to me warning people, it's in relation to a question that was asked and if this is the same question, that the only person that I vividly remember seeing as we were shooting and retreating is Thabete because he was in front of me and this is during the time when we were all retreating.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No Mr Beea the question doesn't relate to who you saw shooting as it was ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ... (inaudible) he didn't look at their faces and cannot recall any individual.