Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-12

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I can't, I'm not sure, I can't honestly answer that question.  So I was opposed - I know I didn't want to do the military training and then for 10 years I spent overseas surfing in Australia, I wasn't into - didn't know much about politics at all at that time.

MR BERGER: All I'm really asking, Mr Jeffers, is did you recognise at the time when you were 18 years old that there was an unjust system operating in South Africa?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes I did.

MR BERGER: And the option open to you was to leave the country?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I can't answer that question, I've only realised once I was overseas what was happening in my life through talking with foreigners and that kind of thing.

CHAIRPERSON: But are you saying that one of the reasons why you left was because you didn't want to go into the army?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: But the main at that time for you, correct me if I'm wrong, was the lure of the waves in Australia, surfing?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Why did you come back to South Africa?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I came back in '73 for one year and then I went back to England until 1980.  I came back because my family were here in Durban and I actually came back with a return ticket back to Australia and stayed on.

MR BERGER: So would it be correct to summarise it as follows, when you left the country at the age of 18 you soon realised being outside of the country what an unjust system there was in South Africa, you returned to South Africa in 1980 realising there was an unjust system and you stayed here until 1986 and afterwards?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: No, in 1971 I came back to South Africa for another year.

MR BERGER: Yes?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: And in 1973 I went back to Australia until 1980.

MR BERGER: You returned to South Africa in 1980 fully aware then of the unjust system that was operating here?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I knew there was an unjust system.

MR BERGER: And you elected to remain here?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That wasn't sort of my choice at the time.

MR BERGER: Were you aware on the night of the bomb that a State of Emergency had been declared two days before?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I wasn't aware that there was a State of Emergency two days before but I knew that there were state of emergencies occurring on and off in Durban, that I know for a fact because I was working at the Chamberlain Road when there was a State of Emergency when four explosions - I was working that night and four explosions went off at a substation, I was right next to it.

MR BERGER: What work were you doing?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I was production foreman for Toyota.  It was then I think called metalling at the time.

MR BERGER: So you knew about the State of Emergency in the country?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In which year?  On the night in question?

MR BERGER: 1985 and 1986.

CHAIRPERSON: The night in question is your answer, on the night in question.  We've heard evidence Mr Jeffers that a State of Emergency, national State of Emergency was declared on the 12th June 1986 which was two days prior to the explosion and the question being asked by Mr Berger is when you were at Magoo's that night were you aware of the fact that there was in fact a State of Emergency?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Not that I recall.

MR BERGER: So you weren't aware of what was happening in the country outside of your circle in Durban?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I knew that there was something going on because there were bombs going off all around the place at the time, on and off but I wasn't actually, I didn't completely know what was going on other than there was some conflict going on.

MR BERGER: Are you serious, Mr Jeffers, that you didn't know what the nature of the conflict in South Africa was in 1986?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Could you repeat that question again?

MR BERGER: Are you seriously stating that you did not know what the nature of the conflict was in South Africa in 1986?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: 1986?  Ja, I'm sure I wasn't too fully aware of what was going on.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think Mr Berger's asking you whether you knew of all the details of the conflict that was taking place, he is asking you a broader question.  Did you know the nature of the conflict, South Africa was a country in conflict in 1986 and were you aware of the nature of why it was in conflict?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I wasn't fully aware of the conflict.  Well when I think now that there were a few months prior to that - I must have known that there was some kind of conflict going on but putting it down to who was fighting who at the time, I wasn't too aware of that no.

MR BERGER: So there were bombs going off and you living here in Durban didn't really know who was fighting who and why the bombs were going off?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Only until it happened to me at Why Not bar afterwards did I realise what was really going on.

JUDGE PILLAY: Did you not realise when it went off at Chamberlain Road?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: When the Chamberlain Road one went off I remember reading in the paper the next day, there was an article that big saying four explosions were heard as far down as Toti and that, that's all I knew.

JUDGE PILLAY: Well fine, that may be so, I'm just asking didn't you realise what's happening in South Africa then?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Not a hundred percent, no.

MR BERGER: I'm sorry Mr Jeffers ...(intervention)

ADV SIGODI: I'm sorry, at that time you said you had just come back from overseas and that is where you - but I mean when you were overseas you said it was then that you realised what was happening in South Africa, that it was an unjust system.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I didn't realise there was a war going on, I realised that was a, you know, an unjust system.

ADV SIGODI: Oh.

MR BERGER: Thank you.  So ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr Jeffers, did you not during that period look at TV or read the newspapers or were you living in recluse?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: During which period?

JUDGE PILLAY: 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, basically the whole of the '80's.  People were dying, people were being necklaced, bombs were going off, states of emergency were being declared.  Were you unaware of that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well through my work colleagues I was aware of necklacing and internal conflicts.

JUDGE PILLAY: Now are you unable to tell us what you thought the nature of this conflict in this country was?  Let me help you, wasn't it based on apartheid?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes it was based on apartheid.

JUDGE PILLAY: We'd got what you called apartheid.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It was based on apartheid.

MR BERGER: Did you know that in 1986, June of 1986 that the struggle in South Africa centred around apartheid?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I was aware of that yes.

MR BERGER: And that was why bombs were going off, did you know that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I knew bombs were going off but if you're asking me if I knew it was the ANC coming around and putting bombs, I wasn't too sure about that, no.  I knew that there was a conflict going on.

MR BERGER: Alright, now that you've established that, why a short while ago when I asked you whether you knew what the nature of the conflict was in South Africa in 1986, did you say you didn't know what the nature of the conflict was?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I wasn't sure if you were meaning the immediate, talking about the bombings and that.  I've always known that there's been apartheid and the problems of apartheid in South Africa.

MR BERGER: But it hasn't really bothered you, has it?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: How can you say that?

MR BERGER: Well, you weren't concerned as to what was - I'm putting to you or let me ask you, were you concerned with what was happening in South Africa from 1980 through to 1986?