Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-10

MS MAYA: Let us come now to this day, to this Bisho massacre day.  We were from Victoria stadium.  I was in the front line.  From Victoria stadium we came to Bisho and then we saw there were military guys standing there.  My soul told me that there is going to be blood today.  The Boers were carrying dangerous weapons although we were told that this was a peaceful march.  I was just saying this inside me.  We were lead by Chris Hani and the Minister of Defence, Mr Ronnie Kasrils.  We followed them and we were right behind them.  When we approached the Bisho stadium the gates were opened, we didn't open them but it was opened.  The gates were opened and we entered there peacefully together with the leaders and we were singing.  Others took different directions and were all over the stadium.  It was only three seconds when we were there.  What I noticed to the people is that they were after our leadership.  They loved our leadership and most of the people were [indistinct] and I saw the helicopter up there and then I told myself that what I was thinking of is going to happen now.  The white guy peeped in the helicopter but I'm sorry to say that, I'm sorry to say the Boer because it is the new South Africa now.

MS MAYA:  What did this Boer do?

WITNESS:  He fired shots at us.  I went to cover and I went to the next steps.  The shots didn't stop.  My eyes focused on Bisho when I was in the steps and I saw the military soldiers.  People were waiting in the valley and bullets were coming from Bisho and others were coming up from the helicopter but those who were with me, they were hit by the bullets from Bisho, not the ones from the helicopter.  I tried to tell them to lie down because I told them that if they are standing up the bullets will hit them and I moved from that direction with the resistance that I'm not going to die there.  There was a woman who was fetching water.  The first bullet struck her and her eye popped out.  It didn't really shock me because I was familiar with that.

MS MAYA:  Mr Kibi where were you shot, when were you shot?

WITNESS:  I was shot when I was helping people that I saw were injured.

MS MAYA:  Where were you shot?

WITNESS:  I was shot in my right-hand arm while I was holding that lady that was shot at the tap and another guy that was shot in the stomach.  We were helping this lady at the tap.

MS MAYA:  Were you taken to hospital?

WITNESS:  I wasn't taken because what I did, after having been shot there, I was curious about the troops and the soldiers wanting to know in which direction they were going and I moved from the direction behind the toilets and I saw these black men lying there with R4 rifles shooting these people from behind and I was shot while in that position, when I saw them lying flat on the grass there shooting the people coming over the embankment.

MS MAYA:  Were you shot for the second time when you were behind the toilets?

WITNESS:  No I was shot when [indistinct] but I was resistant enough to go behind the toilets and see what these soldiers were doing.  I was looking at the truck that had loaded the soldiers and I was looking at the helicopter and I saw them behind the stadium.

MS MAYA:  Did you receive any treatment for your injuries?

WITNESS:  Yes, when I finished there, before I finished, the way in which the shots were being fired there, there was a sound from the machine guns and explosives.  There was also the sound of explosives twice or thrice.  There's a difference between the sound of a gun and an explosive and there was silence thereafter and I realised that these aren't rifles any more, these must be some sort of explosives that are being thrown here in Bisho and after that [indistinct] I somersaulted and I saw a red car and I went there by myself and I told them that I had been shot at the back there and they took me to Gray hospital.  When I got to Gray hospital there were a lot of casualties and there was a coloured person that I observed there.

MS MAYA:  Thank you Mr Kibe.  Is there any request that you would like to place before this Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes because the treatment that I received at Frere hospital, after I had left Gray hospital and then transferred to Frere hospital at a quarter to five, I obtained treatment and I was admitted.

MS MAYA:  For how long?

WITNESS:  I was admitted into hospital for 11 days.  On the 8th I got a message from a nurse saying that people were being kidnapped from Cecilia Makiwane hospital and I was in ward 4 and I was changed to G3 where I was with the boys and the people that were in charge of us.  The first, our first hearer that came there was Mr Ronnie Kasrils.

MS MAYA:  Let us just go back to your request?

WITNESS:  My request, I'm getting emotional now, I'd like some water please.  I'm starting to get a bit hot.

MS MAYA:  Can we just go to your request, we'll get back to your feeling hot.

WITNESS:  I was born, my mother gave birth to me and there was nothing wrong with this arm.  I've got an iron plate in this arm now and I lost approximately a bucket of blood in Bisho so I would like help as far as my arm is concerned, in getting my arm back to what it was on the day I was born.

MS MAYA:  Is that all you would like to say to the Commission?

WITNESS:  No that is not all.

MS MAYA:  Are those your requests Mr Kibi?

WITNESS:  My request in connection with my arm, I want the Commission to investigate this matter about my arm since I spent so much money going to doctors when it's cold and so forth this arm pains and I eventually developed high blood pressure, something I've never had before and even if, when I speak to my wife at home, I speak incoherently.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much Mr Kibi.  I would now like to hand back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Dumisa Ntsebeza.  Mr Ntsebeza?

ADV NTSEBEZA: Mr Kibi I'd like you to explain a few aspects to me because we are going to have to make this evidence tally.  You spoke about Gray hospital but in your statement you mentioned Victoria hospital.  You said you weren't taken, before Frere hospital you were in Victoria hospital.

WITNESS:  When I left Bisho we went to Gray hospital and we were told that it was full and we were transferred to Victoria hospital.  Victoria is a stadium.

ADV NTSEBEZA:  I do not want to disagree with you, I am trying to say that what is being said in this statement is that you were taken to Victoria hospital and thereafter transferred to Frere hospital.  Is that a mistake?

WITNESS:  Yes that is a mistake, not Victoria hospital.

ADV NTSEBEZA:  As far as your shooting goes, according to your statement you say that you were shot when you were crawling, when you were trying to dive for cover and in your statement you say that you were shot in your right arm.  According to your evidence - I'll tell you why these things are important.  When a person gives evidence here, there are certain reporters who sometimes have your statements and ask us thereafter how we can accept these conflicting versions and make a finding on that at the end of the day.  They want to know from us, are you not sure that this person is trying to portray themselves as a hero over and above the extent of the injury, so I don't want it to seem as if I am trying to prosecute you but I am just trying to obtain some clarity on what happened.  In your statement you say that you were crawling for cover when you were shot in your right arm.  Today you say you were shot while you were trying to assist injured people.  Did both these things happen or is there one of them that didn't happen?

WITNESS:  The lady that I was helping was at the tap and I was going towards her.  I had dived for cover, I had dived for cover but there was someone being shot at that was at the tap.