Amnesty Hearings — Tzaneen — 1999-06-30

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson,now I would just on a few aspects, I will take the applicant on a few aspects,just for him to clarify certain things.  Mr Thobejane, can you take the Committee,Honourable members of the Committee through, give us a picture of what happenedon the day in question and take us through what happened when you arrived atMr Swanepoel's place before you attacked it and after you attacked it, untilthe time you were arrested, in detail.

BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE: I think on the 27th, I met thelate Prince, who was my immediate Commander.  I was together with Donald Mukhawana,Thomas Ngobeni and Tekwani.  All of us, we slept at the place of the late Princeand then we finalised our plans of going to Mr Swanepoel's place to attack. Each and everyone of us were given his own instructions the day.  The very sameday, in the afternoon, we went there but myself, I went there with Thomas Ngobenibecause when we were a group of five, we were using a  public transport.  Therewere some delays because the transport which we were using was the public transport,so it was not ours, we arrived there late at Mr Swanepoel's farm.  We didn'tmanage to get in by then, because it was late because all the gates were closedand the dogs were barking at us.  Then we thought of retreating until the followingday in the morning because the dogs were making a noise and the gates were closedand according to our own plan, we were supposed to have arrived in the farmhouse before they closed the gates.  We wanted to catch them by surprise butbecause the dogs were barking, we didn't manage.  Mr Swanepoel's place is inthe bushes, we stayed there until the following day in the morning around fiveo'clock or passed five.  We entered his farm.  The dogs were still barking andwe jumped the fence.  We deployed each other, myself and late Prince, we hidourselves by his garden, facing the door, the front door of Mr Swanepoel's house. The aim was to catch him by surprise when he get out of the house and the othercomrades were a little bit at the back.  When he came out, I pointed an AK47at him,  I was armed with it together with the late Prince, we instructed himto stand and then he stood there.  I don't know what he was having, I thinkit was a camera or a pistol in his hand.  We told him to go back to the house. While Mr Swanepoel was going back to the house, the late Prince was holdinghim like this at his back and then we took him back to the house.  What I realisedis that, I didn't know by then that she was Mrs Swanepoel.  She was having apistol and she was holding a phone as well, so they late approached her.  WhatI can remember is that Mrs Swanepoel shot at us while I was still with Mr Swanepoel,while I was driving him back to his house.  When we entered, it is when thelate was no longer on the window, he was inside the house.  When he arrived,he was on the passage, Mrs Swanepoel shot at him but she missed.   The latePrince was having a Tokarev pistol, he fired back, he didn't fire a lot of shots,but the first bullet hit her on the chest and Mrs Swanepoel fell.  I am sorry,let me put this correctly, when we started shooting Mr Swanepoel wanted to runaway, so I was having an AK47 in my hand, I pointed it at him, I wanted to shootat him, it didn't go off, it jammed.  Mr Swanepoel entered in one of his roomsand locked himself in, but we didn't manage to open the door.    We had realisedthat Mrs Swanepoel phoned and although they didn't hear what she was saying,the phone was laying down, so they could hear that there was something goingon in the house.  Then we called off the operation.  The late Prince instructedus to withdraw, then we withdrew.  We withdrew and jumped the fence to the bushes. The helicopters were around by then.  We manoeuvred ourselves into the bushes,they didn't manage to catch us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Before you proceed, tell theCommittee, do you know what was the name of Prince, his actual name?

BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE: During that time I only knewthat he was Prince.  I did not know about his real name which is Fanual Modau. I learnt at a later stage, after my arrest that his name is Fanual Modau.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Then after you had jumped thefence and the helicopter was hovering above yourselves and you managed to escape,what happened thereafter?

BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE: We entered the bush and startedrunning, the helicopters were too hovering over.  We managed to run away fromthem because we were trained to hide ourselves until we reached our place. When we arrived at our place, before we reached our place, on the way, on theroad, the late Prince, Donald Mukhawana and Tekwani, they went away, being three,having those ammunitions which we were using.  Myself, I took the Tokarev pistoland one China stick grenade, I was together with Thomas and then we arrivedthen at our hiding place and Thomas went to his house, I went to where I wasstaying, alone.  I didn't stay there for a long time.  After 30 minutes, Thomasand the late Prince, I am sorry, Donald and the late Prince came back to me. They were having a bag which was having our ammunitions.  While we were stillthere, we saw a white car, there is someone who came to tell us that there isa white car patrolling the area and we realised that this was a Police car,and there were white people inside.    The white guys came out of the car -enough arms, we only had one Chinese stick grenade and one pistol.   We entered,we got inside the house, all of us, I took out the Chinese stick grenade, thewhite guys came towards the door, I opened the door a little bit together withthe late Prince and Donald.  When they arrived, there were just some young girlsplaying outside.  I took out the stick grenade and threw it to them, when Ithrew it to them, then they ran for cover.   The late Prince got out of thehouse with a pistol in his hand.  There was a certain white man who was comingforward, approaching us and the late Prince shot at him and then he took coverand then the late Prince ran away.   Because I did not want to kill him, thegrenade which I threw, I didn't pin it off, because I didn't want to kill theinnocent children who were playing around.  When the late Prince went out, Iwent to him, followed him only to find that all of them were out of the cover,they started shooting.   I had to go back into the house, that is what happenedin short.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How were you arrested?

BRIAN CLIFFORD THOBEJANE: When I went back to the housebecause they had realised where we were, then they started shouting at us bya loudspeaker, they said "don't attempt shooting, don't fight" andthey started shooting at the house while we were inside the house.  I just sawby dust that they started to shoot, because there were huts in the villages,they are made from mud and then they entered, they found me with Donald insidethe house and they took us out.  They didn't say anything to us, they startedassaulting us, harassing us.  They said we should lay down, they started searchingus, they searched the house.  By that time, they were very many and they putus inside a van.  That is how they arrested us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all Chairperson andHonourable members, at this stage, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  MrVan Rensberg, do you have any questions to ask the applicant?

MR VAN RENSBERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am just experiencing a problem at this stage and this is that I have not seenthe affidavit from which the applicant - used as a base to give his evidence. I think it is necessary for me to obtain that document and if I can thereforeask that we just adjourn for say 15 minutes, so that I can just get a copy thereofplease.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know if you can get acopy thereof because we haven't got the photocopying, but I am sure Mr Mbandazayowill let you have the original.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Thank you very much.