Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

MS PATEL: So when you were asked to take part in an operation against liberation movements, you didn't really believe that they needed to be eliminated or dealt with in the way that they were dealt with by Vlakplaas, not so?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I can say deep down in my heart I did not like it, but because of the way we were operating it was an obligation.  I couldn't say after getting an instruction.

MS PATEL: Why not, tell us why not.

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I'm going to quote Brian Ngqulunga who was killed because he was suspected as a person who would later reveal the activities of Vlakplaas and he was not as staunch a participant as before.  There are other guys like Vusi, Uys Moyema who disappeared because they were not reluctant.
	At some stage I was told to look after Uys and check if he was co-operative or not because he was known as a person who used to question about everything, but I couldn't find anything because Uys used to play soccer with me and I reported back to Mr Vermeulen, Koos Vermeulen, who was a Lieutenant at the time.  I told him about him, I told him that I saw nothing wrong but he was just a person who liked to play soccer.  But there were other people who were also given that mandate, to go and investigate him and I don't know what was the report-back and after that he just disappeared.  And that gave the impression that if you are not co-operating you'll just disappear.

MS PATEL: Okay.  So you basically stayed there out of fear to a large extent, at Vlakplaas?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, and even at some stage - Mr de Kock can even attest to that, because at some stage I wanted a transfer, but he stood against it and said I'm not supposed to leave Vlakplaas.

MS PATEL: Okay.  So you don't really have any political motivation for your involvement in these incidents, or for this incident?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: My political motivation was that we were fighting the people who were fighting the previous government, therefore I became one of the opponents.  They were my opponents, I was their opponent and I was just a soldier who was taking political instruction from superiors.  Everything that I did was politically motivated in that sense.

MS PATEL: But you're contradicting yourself now, Mr Nofomela, earlier you said to me by 1984 already you had realised that what was happening wasn't right.  So I want to put it to you that at the time of your involvement in this incident you really had no political motivation.  Thank you.

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: If I did not feel good about this and going on after that, that doesn't necessarily mean that I have lost a political objective as a person who was taking an instruction.  I did not have a choice, I had to further the objectives of the government of the time.  Whether I feel like doing it or not, I had to do it.

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Patel.
	Mr Nofomela, when you heard the shooting whilst you were waiting at the bridge, did you also hear the AK47 being fired, amongst the shots?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: When these firearms were handed out, were rounds of ammunition also handed out?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, everything was handed over to the people.

CHAIRPERSON: The askaris you say were not really geared for effecting arrests, would that be right?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, that was not their job.  That is why they had to be in the company of a trained policeman, because that was not their job, to arrest people that is.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they issued with handcuffs, for example?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And then one other thing.  To your knowledge, have you ever been ordered to act against a white person?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: During the Dirk Coetzee's times I would just be sent to damage property, burning tractors.  That took place at some stage somewhere in Maseru, where we had to capture someone, but not to kill him, not to kill a white person.  I was never given such a mission to kill a white person.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Dirk Coetzee the only one that you had to do something against?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, he was the only person who gave me that kind of instruction.

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, can I just try and understand you then.  Were you ever given an instruction or an order to act against a white person and if so, who was the person?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I do not know the name, but it was somewhere in Ladybrand, Ladybrand or Aliwal North.  We burnt a truck that belonged to that particular person.  The second one took place at Hilton Hotel in Maseru, we had to capture that person, intimidate him and try to scare him with knives, but not to stab him.  He was supposed to leave - we were to intimidate him to leave Maseru.

CHAIRPERSON: Were those orders coming from Dirk Coetzee?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And were those the only two incidents, cases, where you were involved when the victim was a white person?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: But you say never to kill, just to intimidate and to damage property?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Has the Panel got other questions?

ADV DE JAGER: When you stopped underneath the bridge did the askaris and the other men then get out of the vehicles and walk from there into the township?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, Sir.

ADV DE JAGER: In your statement on page 85, why do you say in there
"They drove to the township where they were to meet the UDF members, while I and my colleagues waited for him at a bridge near the township."

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: We were waiting for them there, they went into the township and we were waiting for them there.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, but why do you say
"They drove to the township"

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: That is another mistake, they did not drive to the township, they walked to the township.

ADV DE JAGER: When they came back were they running or walking?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: It was dark Sir, I do not know whether they were running, I just saw them when they were just in front of the car and they were not running.  It could happen that they were running, but it was dark.

ADV DE JAGER: Do you know how far from the bridge the incident took place?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I did not go to the place, therefore I do not know how long was the distance.

ADV DE JAGER: On hearing the shooting, how long did it last?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: It was not for long.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you hear any single shots or was it only a ...(intervention)

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I said I heard some automatic firing.

ADV DE JAGER: Was that the only fire you heard?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I think I heard a lot of firearms shooting all at once, but it wasn't for long.

ADV DE JAGER: So you didn't only hear an automatic gun, but also other guns?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: When I described this whole scenario I said I heard automatic firing.  I am trying to say I think all the firearms were shooting all at once, at the same time.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you distinguish whether the shots only came from the AK or were there also shots coming from hand weapons or pistols?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, one can distinguish between the sound of an AK47 rifle and the pistols.  That is why I said if you are - that is why I'm saying the shooting was going on from the AK and the pistols.  It was the automatic firing from the AK47 and the pistols, so it was just a combined sound and that took a short time, a short while.

ADV DE JAGER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll adjourn and reconvene at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Sibanyoni?