Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I made a mistake and I conceded to that I made a mistake, instead of saying the boardroom I said Mr Ntlhantlha's office.

MR VAN WYK: You were issued with a firearm on that day by Mr Kruser.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: How many firearms did you have with you on that day?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I was issued with one firearm.

MR VAN WYK: Did you have a private arm with you on that day?

CHAIRPERSON: Did they give you a what?

MR VAN WYK: A private firearm Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I did not.

MR VAN WYK: Can we then accept that you had only one firearm with you on that day?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I was provided with one firearm.

MR VAN WYK: And did you return exactly the same firearm?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes.

MR VAN WYK: Now you will recall that at the inquest I pointed it out to you that the arm, with a certain number on it that was according to the documents of Mr Kruser issued to you, was not the same firearm that you returned.  Do you recall that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes I do.

MR VAN WYK: Have you got an explanation at this stage how it possibly could have happened that one arm
was issued to you but another returned?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair I'm going to repeat what I said at the inquest about that specific issue.  I was given a firearm, I signed for it.  I was not responsible for writing into the book the make of the firearm and the serial number of the firearm.  When I returned the firearm I signed that I returned the firearm.  I was again not responsible for writing into the book the make of the fire or the number of the fire so the only logical explanation that I can come up with is that a mistake had been made by a person who was responsible for entering the guns into the register, I don't have any other explanation to that.

MR VAN WYK: When you left the 18th floor to go down to the street, you were then armed already.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes that's correct.

MR VAN WYK: When did you cock your firearm Mr Beea?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Where or when?  I missed that.

MR VAN WYK: When, yes.  We know it's on that day but when.  At the corner, in the street, whilst going down the building.  When did you cock your firearm?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Just after going out of the entrance of Shell House towards the corner.

MR VAN WYK: Were you then already preparing yourself that you might be using your firearm.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: You then walked to the corners of Plein and King George Street.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That's correct.

MR VAN WYK: Did you walk or did you run there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I was walking.

MR VAN WYK: When you reached this corner, can you assist this Committee and mention to them which of your other colleagues had you seen at that corner?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair I'm going to again repeat what I said at the inquest because this is what happened.  I cannot recall who was at what corner.  We were wearing white bullet proof vests and I saw people at different pillars wearing white vests and I knew that those were people on our side.  As to who or what face was at what pillar, I am sorry I cannot assist, I cannot recall.

MR VAN WYK: Can you recall anybody of your colleagues that you saw on that corner on that morning when you got there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: When I got where?

MR VAN WYK: At the corners of King George and Plein Streets, that is before you proceeded up in King George?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I cannot put a body to a face, I cannot do that.  I turned the corner and I was walking up towards the corner of de Villiers and King George.  I saw people but as to who was at what corner leaning against what pillar, I cannot put that face to the body that I saw, I cannot do that.

MR VAN WYK: Can I then further assume that you cannot assist this Committee in mentioning whether any of those people were armed with firearms?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: People had firearms.  People that I saw in front of Shell House are guards of - people who are referred to as guards of the ANC, they had weapons in their hands and they had similar type of weapons that I had so people had weapons, had guns in their hands.

MR VAN WYK: And at the corner of King George and Plein Street.  Those guards, were they armed with firearms?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I would assume so, yes.

MR VAN WYK: What did you see Mr Beea, were they armed?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Let me try and illustrate this.  I'm rushing out of Shell House, I'm rushing to a corner and I don't stop at the corner, I don't stop to gaze to look whose where.  My eyes are focused somewhere else, but the sides of course I see bodies and I say that people that I had seen outside the entrance of Shell House had weapons in their hands and I therefore assume that those who were also on the other side along the pillars as I was passing, could have had arms in their hands.

MR VAN WYK: Could they have had any long rifles in their hands?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I don't know that because I didn't see any long rifles.

MR VAN WYK: So you went down Shell House to the corners of King George and Plein and then you walked up in King George Street and took position behind one of the pillars.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: Surely by that time you must have known that there are also other security personnel outside Shell House with the same intent, maybe of protecting Shell House.  What is your reply to that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I knew.

MR VAN WYK: How did you know that, because at the corners you only saw people standing?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I'm saying in my statement and I want to illustrate that, that I was not stationed at one place.  I was walking in and out of Shell House, I was taking rounds around Shell House so I knew that around the block of Shell House there were people deployed, that I knew that's why I say that when I saw the crowd from de Villiers, one of the main things and main reasons that came into my head was to alert the people on the side of King George to make them aware that there is this group that is coming towards them so I knew there were people that side, unless I miss your point.

MR VAN WYK: Did you go there on your own or were you deployed there?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: People who were deployed were people who belonged to the Security Directorate.  I did not belong there.  I was armed because there was a request of reinforcement of those people and I'm a member of the ANC.  Even if I was not asked to reinforce, I was going to volunteer my services because I'm a member of the ANC, a member of uMkhonto weSizwe, I'm trained.  I cannot, would not have left other trained cadres and leave the responsibility of protecting the leadership, the ANC only (indistinct) when I was present.  It is not a matter of being given an instruction or wait for instruction, but as I say I was not deployed, I could not have been deployed because I did not belong to that unit of security, I belonged another directorate whose main purpose was not security, installation of VIP installation, but mainly the gathering of information.  But yes, I took up the arm simply because I'm a member of the ANC and I had that responsibility.

MR VAN WYK: So do I understand you correctly that you observed on the corner there were guards and there were also security personnel deployed along King George from Plein Street towards de Villiers Street on the eastern side, in other words next to Shell House.  Was that your observation?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I hadn't mentioned guards and security, can you repeat your question, it's like I missed your point.  I am sorry.