Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-27

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am going to repeat, Mr Berger, the things that I'm saying here are such that I am saying them with fright, I am scared, all the things I am saying here are complete, I am not telling a lie here, all the things that I said, I maintain that all the things that are lies contained in the statement, I still have them within myself, I am now revealing these secrets, I am here to tell the truth, the whole truth.   Had Richard not pointed out that I stabbed this child, I would stand by this statement and I continue to say I would not have divulged this information, because that was very scary, not knowing whether I will be killed in the township or not.

ADV SIGODI: Yes, I suppose if Mr Dlamini had not revealed you, you'd still be telling this committee that what you said in your statement is the truth and we must believe you?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am putting a stamp on it, that's how it was going to do.   I would not have divulged any information, not the slightest.   Now I have decided on telling the truth, I'm not going to move from that.   I want this to come to an end.   People died, man, it's enough now, we are finished.

ADV SIBANYONI: The impression you may create in someone's mind is that if there is	still another thing which Dlamini didn't say, you wouldn't mention it, because nobody has disclosed it.   What do you say about that?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I still maintain that, had Dlamini not divulged this information, I know there are so many witnesses who had come forward, they did not implicate me in that, only one person implicated me in that.   I was going to challenge Hlope and Bojosi's statement, but not Dlamini's statement.  Now that he had explained, I am admitting that I did that.  That is the whole truth that I'm coughing out, and I confirm that.

MR BERGER: Mr Khubeka, is it correct that the only guarantee we have that you are telling the whole truth now is because you say so?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I still maintain that I am the one who killed the child and I am the one who killed the child, isn't it you're looking for the person who killed the child?   I am the one, this is the person.   Had that person not come forward, I would not have given you anything, you'd run out of questions.

MR BERGER: I've run out of questions, Mr Khubeka.

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Thank you now that you have run out of questions, Mr Berger.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

MR MALINDI: Mr Khubeka, the practice at Kwamadala, while you were staying there, was that members must protect one another?

INTERPRETER: The applicant is requesting for the male interpreter to come and interpret.   We are still waiting for the male interpreter to come into the booth.

CHAIRPERSON: As soon as the male interpreter is available, we'll proceed.

MR MALINDI: Thank you, chairperson.   Mr Khubeka, I was asking you if, while you were at Kwamadala, the culture or practice was for residents and members of the IFP to protect one another?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I won't want to see a situation where my brother would lose his life whilst I'm watching, we are one thing there, we are trying to solve one problem, therefore we had to protect one another, because we were dying for the mere reason that we were Inkatha members.

MR MALINDI: And if any one of you knew of any criminal act committed by the other, you wouldn't tell on each other?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I trust that if there's one person who had committed a criminal activity, if a person had committed a criminal act, I maintain that had one committed a criminal act, Shingoza is there, Shingoza is a clan name, the surname is Nthembo, he would take you to the police and Mr Ndebezeto was also there, you'd go to jail if you commit such criminal acts.   We therefore had to be loyal and respectful to one another and sensitive to one another.

MR MALINDI: When something like the attack on Boipatong, which the residents agreed upon, the understanding was that none of you will tell what the others did, to the police or anyone else?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, yes we agreed among ourselves, ourselves as residents at the hostel, people who committed these deeds, except for those who were not present.

MR MALINDI: And the practice was that you would protect the residents and the leaders of the IFP if you knew of anything?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Mr Malindi, would you please repeat the question, I don't understand what you are trying to say?

MR MALINDI: I am saying the understanding amongst the residents and members of the IFP understood that you had to protect one another and your leaders?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Mr Malindi, we are not talking about protecting our leaders.   I would protect people on other things, not on such matters as sensitive as these.   Had the chief minister been part of this, I would have pointed this out, and as usual I would say that he was present, he talks quite a lot.   Unfortunately, M'Lord, he was not present.

MR MALINDI: When do you say you went to Kwamadala to reside there?   When did you go to Kwamadala?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I remember we went to Kwamadala having come from a veld, it was an old farm, where we were being taken care of by the Red Cross, that was in, towards the end of 1990, that is where we left this veld and the owner thereof no longer wanted us there, because he could no longer - or should I say such a large group of people was beyond his power.

MR MALINDI: From 1990... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Well - sorry, Mr Malindi - did you say that before going to the hostel, you had been staying in a forest?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALINDI: From 1990, when you moved into Kwamadala, until 1992, June... (intervention).

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALINDI: ...you had come to know almost all the residents of Kwamadala?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I know some of them, and not some of them, some I know them by their other names, and we have these other names that we use, like Bomagejo, Sibingane, etcetera, and some I know only by sight.

MR MALINDI: After this period that you stayed at Kwamadala, are you able to tell the committee the names of other people who went to Boipatong on the 17th of June, besides people like Mr Richard Dlamini and the others that we have already mentioned, like Damara Quonquo?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Those that I still remember fully is Mr Oupa Moloi, Mr Bojosi and there is one other old man whose name is Bosobengani, he was present as well, and his other name, and his surname is Khumalo.

MR MALINDI: Are those the only ones you can remember?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I also remember Mgani Zamfesa, his surname is Zulu.

MR MALINDI: And that's all?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes.   I cannot continue listing the whole hostel, I would go mad.

MR MALINDI: And we know that Mr Moloi and Mr Bojosi became State witnesses?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALINDI: Where are Mr Khumalo and Mr Mgani Zamfesa Zulu?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I left them at Kwamadala Hostel, I don't know their whereabouts, but I know them from sight.

MR MALINDI: You have said here that up to this moment that you are giving evidence, you are fearful?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I am rendering this testimony with fear, not knowing what is going to become of me in the township where I reside, whether I'm going to die from here, I don't know.

MR MALINDI: Is it... (intervention).

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Maybe you should lay a small prayer for me so that such a thing should not happen to me.