Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-20

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hattingh.  Mr Muller, do you have any questions?

MR MULLER: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MULLER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen?

MR JANSEN: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR JANSEN

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: I have no questions, Mr Chairperson, thank you.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination Mr Cornelius?

MR CORNELIUS: No re-examination, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi, do you have any questions?

ADV SANDI: Thank you.  Mr Snyman, how would you describe your relationship with Colonel De Kock, save for the fact that he was your superior at work?

MR SNYMAN: I had quite a good relationship with him.  I met him in Ovamboland before I started to work with him at Vlakplaas, not a friendship as friends would be said, but we knew each other.

ADV SANDI: Do you know if he would on occasions, give some donations to fellow colleagues?

MR SNYMAN: He did help me at one time as I mentioned, or as I have indicated in the hearing of his in Pretoria, that at some stage, he gave me R5 000-00 because I had financial problems.  He also helped us with a diving course which we completed, but this was not specifically as a reward, it was to the advantage of the Force.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Just one Mr Chairperson.  Mr Snyman, my question is based on this question of the joke, the plot.  You said to you it was purely a joke which Mr De Kock made about the possibility of getting a plot if the coup was successful?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, I can't even say if it was Mr De Kock himself or Mr Vermeulen that mentioned it to me.

MR SIBANYONI: But what do you say because some people did in fact get a plot?

MR SNYMAN: I could never see that, even if Mr Duli did take over the Transkei, that I would have made use of it to go and stay in the Transkei.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, this R5 000-00 that was given to you by Colonel De Kock, what was the arrangement, was that on the basis that you would have to give it back to him?

MR SNYMAN: No, he didn't say that I would have to give it back to him.

ADV SANDI: Did you understand that to be from his personal monies or did he take it from Vlakplaas funds?

MR SNYMAN: I have no idea where it came from.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.  Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Snyman, what was your rank at that time?

MR SNYMAN: I was a Warrant Officer, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: You have heard the evidence that Mr De Kock received a large amount of cash shortly after this, the time that you were in East London.  How do you feel about that, do you feel that you and the others who participated in the delivery of arms, should have got a cut?

MR SNYMAN: I didn't expect to get anything out of it.  I am not worried about it sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know of it at the time?

MR SNYMAN: No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: And that R5 000-00 that you were given by De Kock, when was that in relation to your visit to East London as you have described here today?

MR SNYMAN: That was just after I perhaps started at Vlakplaas, it was in the beginning ...

CHAIRPERSON: It was before, before this?

MR SNYMAN: Long before that.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Cornelius, do you have any questions arising?

MR CORNELIUS: Only one, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR CORNELIUS: Only one, thank you Mr Chairman.  No reward or any money were offered to you to perform your duties, is that so?

MR SNYMAN: No, there were no promises made for any rewards.

MR CORNELIUS: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions arising, Mr Lamey?

MR LAMEY: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Yes, please Mr Chairman.  Mr Snyman, Mr De Kock has also applied for a further incident where he supplied weapons according to him, to a Mr Nieuwoudt, which would be used to topple the government of Gen Holomisa.  You were not involved in that incident, were you?

MR SNYMAN: I could say as I have heard what have happened there, that there was a first, second and third amount of weapons.  I do not know of the first amount of weapons and the second one is the one that was involved with the Duli coup, and the third consignment is another one which I am not aware of, although I gave training for the FAM 7's, the surface to air missiles which was given to them.  This was to the Ciskei and this had nothing to do with the Transkei coup.

MR HATTINGH: Mr De Kock's evidence was that the money which he received after the third consignment of weapons which was sent, you were not involved there, so you could never have thought that you qualified for a part of that reward?

MR SNYMAN: No, I did not.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muller?

MR MULLER: No questions, thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MULLER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen?

MR JANSEN: No questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JANSEN

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Snyman,  that is your testimony, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Cornelius, sorry, do you have any further witnesses to call?

MR CORNELIUS: I have no further witnesses, Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR CORNELIUS: I wish to call the fifth applicant, Nicholaas Vermeulen, Mr Chairman.