Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1996-11-20

WITNESS:   Well, if I stopped it myself they could have stopped - a whole squad of policemen could have stopped people and turned them back.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  You say that when you reported the matter to the Riot Unit you were told to let them through.  What did you think about that?

WITNESS:   Well, at that stage, you know, I didn't think anything about it.  I was under the impression that they were going to a meeting, and that's why, you know, they were allowed through.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  So it didn't say anything to you at that time?

WITNESS:  It didn't mean anything to me at that time.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  It's only now that you see what it means.

WITNESS:   Well, I don't know whether the same buses were involved in any attacks in the KwaShange area, but obviously there seemed to be people streamed into the Edendale area from other areas.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  This man who called you a communist dog, and he said you were going to commit suicide, and you reported the matter to your attorney.  Did your attorney do anything about this?

WITNESS:   Well, I requested him not to do anything about it, but just to bear knowledge of it that if anything does happen he should know in what direction to go.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  And then something happened.

WITNESS:   Well, yes, my house was petrol-bombed.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  What did you do about it?

WITNESS:   Well, I registered a charge.  It was investigated and - well, nothing came of it.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: Thank you.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Superintendent Marion, in your statement you say that you were selected to the Goldstone Commission.  Could you say why you declined that?

WITNESS:   Well, at that stage I basically wasn't too well because of the trauma that I worked in, the unrest situation and the violence, and I elected not to be involved in violence for a time.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  The second question.  You noticed that these people who were travelling by bus were heavily armed.  Do you remember what kind of arms did they have?

WITNESS:   Well, they had spears, assegais, pangas - weapons, traditional weapons.  I didn't notice any firearms.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: Thank you.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Inspector Marion, thank you - sorry, Superintendent Marion, thank you very much for coming in.  I think that your evidence is instructive from two points of view.  It indicates that a single policeman driving a motor vehicle could, by the authority that he represented, could have stopped a large convoy of armed men.  Because the story that we have heard from the other policemen here is that they were completely unable to do anything to halt the movement of armed people during that period, and other people have said that there was a great unwillingness on the part of the police to stop those armed groups.  And you have indicated that it could be done.  Secondly the remarks made to you by the head of the Security Branch at the time also go a long way to showing the views held at the time by senior policemen such as Brigadier Bertus Steyn.  So, again than you very much for coming in and sharing that information with us.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: /CYRIL BONGANI NXUMALO

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: CYRIL BONGANI NXUMALO   (Sworn, States)

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Inspector, you are presently a Detective-Inspector attached to the Criminal Investigation Services at Camperdown, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  And during 1987 you were working with the Murder and Robbery Unit in Pietermaritzburg.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  You were then transferred to the, at that time, Riot and Unrest Investigations Unit.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Your commanding officer was Captain Upton at that time.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  What was the job of that unit at the time?

WITNESS:   The unit was charged with the investigation of political- related incidents in Pietermaritzburg area.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  It also dealt with unrest-related matters as well.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  You can talk in Zulu if you want to, and we will have the translation.

WITNESS:   I am pleased.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Now, during 1987 and thereafter, particularly during March 1990, you ended up doing much of the investigation arising out of what has come to be called the Seven Day War.  What was your rank at that time?

WITNESS:   Then I was a constable, the first rank in the police.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  How many dockets were you required to investigate at that time approximately?

WITNESS:   I had then about 80, 8-0 dockets, as a result of many cases and things that were happening.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  What was the average amount of dockets that a detective would carry at that time?

WITNESS:   It's not easy for me to answer this question because it differs, depending on the area where you will be working, how many cases you will find and how many people to be investigated.  So it differs, making me - putting me in a position of not answering your question.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  But you yourself were carrying 80?

WITNESS:   It may be possible that it was even more than 80.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Now, were the majority of those cases related to the violence that had taken place - in the Vulindlela valley that week we are talking about.

WITNESS:   There are not so many of those which have to do with the Seven Day War.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Tell us about those that you were dealing with in relation to the Seven Day War.

WITNESS:   The one that I remember is the case where Brian Sihle Zondi was killed, and one other lady from Zondi family.  That incident took place on the day when the rally took place in Durban.  The buses which were coming from Durban passed by Mnyandu by Mabeza's store.  That is exactly where the late Sihle and the lady from Zondi family met their untimely death.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Just by way of background, you were a constable, you were the most junior rank in the police at that time.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  What sort of supervision did you get to try and help you cope with such a huge amount of work?

WITNESS:   At that time things were in such a way that when the investigating officer gets a case we would go and investigate on it, so that the following day you give it and hand it over to the superior, and the superiors will inspect and peruse through it and give guidelines thereafter for him to carry on investigating.  That is the first guideline that was given to us.  One other thing that used to happen, at least once a month one of the investigating officers in chief will call all the dockets so he can go through the dockets one by one.  In that was the investigating officer  /will be

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: will be granted some direction as to which way to go now to furthermore investigate on the issue.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  On the Wednesday - that is a couple of days after the 25th - you were at KwaMnyandu.  Tell us what you found.

WITNESS:   What drove me to go to Mnyandu, we were stationed in Sweetwater in fact.  I therefore heard about the outbreak of violence.  When we were in Sweetwater, looking on the other side, what I will refer to as Mnyandu direction, we saw houses burning and we rushed there.  When we got there we found out that many houses were set alight and burning, and the residents already had vacated the area.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  (Inaudible) ... when you got there?

WITNESS:   When I got there the attackers and those who were being attacked were no longer there.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Carry on please.