Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-03-27

JUDGE WILSON: Well you have told us you were not there at all on the Saturday, you were at home, so you cannot tell us BLOEMFONTEIN HEARING	AMNESTY/FREE STATE
JUDGE WILSON	51	MR MOIKABI
anything about what happened on the Saturday, what is it you now wish to give evidence about?  Don't tell me the whole thing, summarise briefly what it is you wish to give evidence about and why you think it important we should hear it.

MR MOIKABI: Just explain a little bit the last part of your sentence.

JUDGE WILSON: What do you want to give evidence about and why do you think it's important that we should hear your evidence, what is the relevance of it?

MR MOIKABI: I agreed to testify.

JUDGE MGOEPE: But what are you going to tell us because you say you were not there at all at the scene, you say you were not there at all when this thing happened?

MR MOIKABI: That's true, I was not there I was not present ...(intervention)

JUDGE MGOEPE: Well then ...(intervention)

MR MOIKABI: But in terms of the situations I know ...(intervention)

JUDGE MGOEPE: ...is that document, that document which you have in front of you is it important?

MR MOIKABI: It is important Sir.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Well will that be of comfort to you if you we ask you to give it to us then and - or make copies and give those copies to us?   Because we, there are people who are waiting to have their applications heard, and who admit that they committed these offences, who are within ambit of this Act and they are anxiously waiting on us to call on them to come and testify, people who were there when these things happened.  There isn't such a great need for us to listen to somebody who wants to tell us about something
BLOEMFONTEIN HEARING	AMNESTY/FREE STATE
JUDGE MGOEPE	52	MR MOIKABI
which happened when he was not there.

MR MOIKABI: What I wanted to explain to testify about was, it is true that I was not present, but the situation surrounding this killing I know, truly but I don't know about the killing, I know about the situations leading towards the killing, I know the situation of where I am staying.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Alright, the applicants have told us about that.

MR MOIKABI: If that is the case I have no words Sir, thank you.

JUDGE WILSON: Anything you wish to say Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman may Mr Matsepe be allowed to place himself on record and to confirm what I have just conveyed to the Committee, that is all he has to do.

JUDGE WILSON: Place himself on record as what?

MR MATSEPE: Mr Chairman if I could explain, I was telephonically instructed by the Legal Aid Board to appear on behalf of Moikabi today and indeed after consultations I realised that I am in this predicament, I can't go on with this application, I advised him as such and I confirm what Advocate Mpshe has indicated to the Committee and I just wanted to be excused.

JUDGE WILSON: Well he has confirmed it himself, Moikabi has.  Thank you for having taken the trouble to tell us that though.

MR MATSEPE: Thank you Sir.

JUDGE WILSON: Anything else you wish to say?  Very well you may go.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman then that rounds up the application
BLOEMFONTEIN HEARING	AMNESTY/FREE STATE
MR MPSHE	53	ADDRESS
of the two applicants.  As I have indicated right in the beginning there are no next of kin to the victims.  That is the end of the matter.

JUDGE WILSON: Do you wish to say anything in support of the applications?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman may I make a request that I be given an opportunity to address the Committee on this whole application later?

JUDGE WILSON: Alright.  Carry on with the next matter.
BLOEMFONTEIN HEARING	AMNESTY/FREE STATE