Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

MR BRINK: Page 25, middle paragraph.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, the person who took down the statement made a mistake.

MR BRINK: Was the statement read back to you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No.

MR BRINK: Who do you say killed Dludla?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The person who shot Ngoso Dludla is Muhle Mthethwa.

MR BRINK: Now finally, had you not been offered some sort of promise of employment by Mr Nyawuza, would you have embarked upon these various acts of murder or been party to them?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There would be no other reason for me to kill people.

MR BRINK: No, no I am not asking about instructions. My question was in the light of your evidence that Nyahusa had promised you should you require it, employment, would you have carried out these killings had he not made such an offer to you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I would not have killed.

MR BRINK: So was your motivation in carrying out these killings and being party to them, your motivation's one of a possible gain by permanent employment which you haven't had before that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, that is what I say.

MR BRINK: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

MR MALAN: May I just follow up on that. I want to be as fair as possible to you Mr Myeza.  For one I am not sure that you really fully understand the process and why you are here.  You can only get amnesty if you tell the truth.  You can only get amnesty for crimes that you committed.  This is not a court that will find you guilty or not guilty, we have to find out whether we are satisfied that you are telling us everything that happened, inclusive of all your guilt, all your participation.  Now frankly the difficulty is that we have different versions in your amnesty application, in your additional statement that you say you gave to the investigators and in your evidence today and you are simply saying to us that it wasn't your handwriting, you didn't say it, it wasn't read back to you but my question is, and I am coming back to the issue of Mr Dludla's death, you say expressly to whoever took this statement
"I left on the Thursday afternoon for Newcastle before our plot was carried out. On my return on a Sunday I was informed that Dludla was shot dead."
Now where would the investigator get this information from if you did not tell him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He is not telling the truth.  I did not say that to the person who was taking my statement.

MR MALAN: Let me ask you just a very simple question, are you satisfied, because it is in your own interest, that you have told us everything and that you have been truthful because we have to make that finding before we can seriously consider granting you amnesty.  Are you satisfied that you have been open, truthful and told us everything?  Is there anything more you want to tell us or to set the record straight on?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: About Ngoso Dludla, and this is what I told the people who were taking down my statement, is that many people knew that I would be going to Newcastle.  I did not go because he was killed on Thursday night before Good Friday.  I do not make a mistake about what I said in my statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's talk about Mr Nyawuza.  He is the gentleman who is the driver of Mr Zulu.  When did Mr Nyawuza make this promise to you that you would get employment in the KZN Police, what year?  You might not remember the date, you might not remember the month but when was this?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I remember that it was in 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were you when he made this statement?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We first went for training.  It was in C section in Ulandi.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you alone when he made this promise to you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was with Xolani Ngema.

CHAIRPERSON: What were you expected to do in return?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He said before we became permanent force members, Inkatha should first win the election in KwaZulu Natal.

CHAIRPERSON: No, my question is what were you expected to do in return for this promise?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was expected to kill ANC members, the people who were a trouble and were not in good relationship with him.

CHAIRPERSON: Have I understood you to say that had he not made this promise to you, you would not have done what you have done?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, we could not have killed people.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you receive any gifts or presents from him for doing things for him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There is nothing else except the government firearms that were given to us.

CHAIRPERSON: And who was supporting and maintaining you in the meanwhile, giving you food and clothing?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mr Dlulane used to bring food and clothing for us.

CHAIRPERSON: Throughout the period 1993/1994?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: As far as money was concerned, did you receive any money from him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was not giving us money.  We were getting money from Ulundi.

CHAIRPERSON: You used to fetch money from who?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were being paid as SPU members.  We received it from a certain person in Ulundi who was in charge of finances there.  I cannot recall his name.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that every month or every week, how often was that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: After every two months.

CHAIRPERSON: What is SPU, what does it mean?

INTERPRETER: (Explanation of Self Protection Unit)

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So this was full time as far as you are concerned?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And as member of the SPU who did you take orders from?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We got some orders from Phillip Powell when we were still in training.

CHAIRPERSON: Would he come there to where you were and give instructions or were these instructions conveyed to you in some other way?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: At Umfolozi where we received training, we had commanders who were working under him.  We had commanders like "Somatekisi" and others that I cannot recall their surnames.

CHAIRPERSON: But that was only during the time that you have for training but you were only for training for a short period?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, ...[indistinct] six months.

CHAIRPERSON: After the training was over who did you get instructions from?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The person who organised training for us was Mr Nyawuza.

MR MALAN: Can you just tell us this Mr Philip Powell, have you met him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: Where did you meet him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: At Umfolozi.

MR MALAN: Did you see him daily?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He came once in a fortnight for six months.  He is the one who also brought us the certificates to show that we had passed our training.

MR MALAN: What was that training called, what were you told what were you being trained for?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were trained to protect the IFP.

MR MALAN: Now just a question as to the structure of the SPU, after your training did you have to report to anyone?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We, as the region of Eshowe were reporting to Nyawuza after performing our duties, another person was Sipho Mbambo.

MR MALAN: Did you have meetings of the SPU in Eshowe?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There were no meetings that were held at Eshowe.  We held our meetings in Empangeni, where all the SPU's would come together.

MR MALAN: Did you then have regular meetings there?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We used to have meetings there were some of us would be picked to join the army at Mtubatuba.

MR MALAN: Who was the head of the unit in that region, was it Nwyawza or was it Mr Mbambo?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The person who was very helpful and we regarded as our commander was Mr Mbambo, Sipho Mbambo.

MR MALAN: Was Mr Nyawuza also an SPU?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No he was just a driver and the bodyguard of uMntwana Gideon.

MR MALAN: Why did you have to report on SPU matters to Nuyawuza?