Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-08

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: As I've already stated, we planted the bomb amongst the Muslims because many of them were in high structures in the ANC, they held high positions.

MR BLACK: What I am trying to get at is, you see it relates
to the gravity of this offence.  And what I am getting at is when you planted the bomb of that nature, you intended to kill Muslims.  It wasn't that they may or may not, it was your intention actually to kill them.

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct, yes.

ADV DE JAGER: You pleaded guilty to murder and murder is the killing of a person with the intent to kill him.

MR BLACK: So, I just want to understand your evidence then.  When you were asked about the nature of the bomb, the sensitivity of it etc, you replied at one stage that you did not know who could have, would have been able to set off the device and you thought it would go off when the shops were unlocked in the morning.

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: As far as Mr Froneman was concerned, was he aware of the seriousness of this issue, did you discuss it with him that people were going to be killed, Muslims were going to be killed?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Froneman was completely au fait with the fact that people would die.

MR BLACK: Your instructions, am I fair in understanding that you were told at a meeting that you would receive an order to the effect that was has been declared?  You would receive an instruction that war has been declared, that instruction would come either by person, personally delivered to you or telephonically?  Is that correct?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You carried out this act after you had received an instruction that war had been declared?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Am I also correct that you were given carte
blanche as it were, as to how to carry out or to give effect, you were given no specific orders how to carry out or conduct this war?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: At these meetings we were told to use our initiative and select and identify our own targets in order to promote the BWB's case.

MR BLACK: How much time did you give Mr Froneman to select a target?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: I think it was approximately a day or two that he had to look for a target and come back to me with a specific target.

JUDGE WILSON: What day was it that you actually put the bomb there?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: It was the Saturday at four o'clock the morning.

JUDGE WILSON: So it would have been the Friday, perhaps the Thursday that he could look for a target?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: You were satisfied with the target that was selected, you had to approve of it?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, Mr Chairman, I was satisfied with the target.

MR BLACK: You had satisfied yourself that Mr Froneman would also, was fully aware of the consequences as to what would occur if a bomb of that nature was placed at that target, you satisfied yourself with that as his Commanding Officer?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: I knew that great damage would occur and that people would die and I believed Mr Froneman also realised this.

MR BLACK: I know it has been asked, but again, could you just - what was the objective, the political objective you
hoped to achieve by placing a bomb of this nature at a civilian target?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The reason was to show the then government that negotiations were not going to help us in achieving our free ethnic state, Volkstaat and also that our religion was very important to us.

MR BLACK: So it was primarily aimed at making a statement as it were, to the government?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Then surely a bomb over a weekend or whenever this took place, placed at a government building causing considerable damages, I am sure this bomb could cause, would that not have been a more appropriate target, a government institution which would not be frequented or be used by civilians over a weekend?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: After the target had been identified, we were satisfied with it and we did not even think of another government institution where we could have placed the bomb.

MR BLACK: But did you make attempts, did you enquire where - what steps did you take to - did you consider attacking or planting a bomb at a government institution which wouldn't be so densely occupied?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Well, after the target had been identified, Mr Chairman, we didn't even think of looking for another target or going to another target, because at that stage this target would best convey our message to the government.

MR BLACK: Okay, so when identifying this target, did you
make enquiries as to what other targets had been considered before settling on this particular target?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: We did consider other targets, but they were not considered further because this target was regarded as
the best target to convey our message to the government.

MR BLACK: The other targets which you considered, did they include government buildings and institutions?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: No, Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: So were you just considering civilian targets?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Not specifically civilian targets, but a target that could convey a true message.

MR BLACK: Can you just inform us as to what was some of the other targets which you considered, which were not - other than civilians targets?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Targets that were specifically against our religion Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: But what are they?  What other targets did you consider before saying I will plant a bomb which is highly sensitive, uncontrolled bomb, in a densely well frequented commercial shopping complex?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Chairman, we also considered targets in Pretoria, but we in die end ignored them.

MR BLACK: When you say we, who are you talking about?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: It was myself and Mr Froneman after he had identified the target which we had together accepted would be the best.

MR BLACK: Again I must ask you, can you - what targets did you consider?  Give us an example of the nature of the targets in Pretoria that you considered.

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: It was also specifically where Muslims mostly would meet.

MR BLACK: So again it was aimed specifically at Muslims?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: And again aimed specifically with a view, with the knowledge rather, that Muslims would be killed?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: It could have been so Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: Now, you have testified that subsequent to this act of yours, your actions were approved of by the AWB?

JUDGE WILSON: He didn't say the AWB, Mr Black.

MR BLACK: After this matter, after this incident, did you say you received promotion to that of a General?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: Now, who approved of this action, were you congratulated on your actions?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: No, Mr Chairman I was not directly congratulated with planting the bomb, but at the meeting I was told that I would become a General from that date.

MR BLACK: And this was a meeting of - was this the meeting of the ..., which meeting was this?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That Mr Chairman, was a meeting of the Boere Resistance Movement.

MR BLACK: So did any one in the AWB or the Boere Resistance Movement condemn your actions?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Chairman, as far as I know nobody had any negative comments on the deed.

MR BLACK: Do you consider that this bombing of civilians in any way whatsoever, contributed towards achieving your political objectives?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Chairman, I believe that with this deed that I had committed, it could perhaps have the former government think second thoughts before handing over to the SACP/ANC alliance.