Amnesty Hearings — White River — 2000-05-04

MR LUBBE: Now can you briefly describe to the Committee what happened after you were informed by Mr Hlongwane of your instructions.  What actually took place?  Give us a description of the event or the events.
MR SEEMISE
"Mr Hlongwane called us to Mr Chris Ngwenya's home, where he informed us that Mr Shongwe should be attacked at his home.  He also informed us that the order had been issued by Mr Mxobogazi.  They went out on the first instance and I was not present there, but from the information I got from Mr Hlongwane, they did not find Mr Shongwe at home.  Mr Hlongwane then went to report to Mxobogazi, that they had not found him at home.  He then ordered him to go look for him again and if he was not present at home, he should proceed to kill his mother because then he would attend her funeral and that is where they would get hold of him.
		On the following day, Israel Hlongwane then informed us that Mr Mxobogazi had ordered that we should return to Mr Shongwe's home and kill his mother and everybody else who would be present at home.  We then went there, it was myself, Baba, Jomo, Stiga, Obed, Israel Hlongwane and other members of the Black Cats, whose names I cannot recall now.  
		Mr Hlongwane gave me a handgrenade.  He was armed with a 38mm revolver.  We left from Chris Ngwenya's home.  Some of our comrades were armed with pangas and grass cutters.  We then proceeded to Mr Shongwe's home and Israel Hlongwane ordered us to surround the house.  He went, kicked the door in and went inside the house.  I followed him.  He pointed a gun at Mr Shongwe's mother and asked her where he was and she said he was not home.  She was not alone, there were other people present because the house was a shebeen, so there were people drinking.  He then ordered those people to go into a separate room, then took Mr Shongwe's mother from room to room, searching for Mr Shongwe.  
		Thereafter he took her into the kitchen.  He informed me that he was going to shoot her, and after shooting her I was supposed to throw the handgrenade into the room where the other patrons were.  He then proceeded to shoot her and I followed his order to throw the handgrenade into that room.  I removed the pin and threw it into the room, closed the door and we fled and we heard the explosion going off.  We thereafter fled to Mr Ngwenya's home.
		On the following day we learnt that some people had been injured in that attack of the handgrenade.  We also learnt that Mr Shongwe's mother had died.  Mr Hlongwane and myself went to Mr Mxobogazi and reported that the mission had been successful, and he was pleased.  He congratulated us on a job well done."

MR LUBBE: Now the handgrenade that you threw, that was on the instruction of Mr Hlongwane.

JOSIAS SEEMISE: Yes, it was on Mr Hlongwane's instruction.

MR LUBBE: And the people that were injured are the people of which the names appear in charges 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, is that correct?  On pages 17 and 18 of the bundle.  These are the people that were in the room where you threw the handgrenade.

JOSIAS SEEMISE: I am not precisely certain of their names, but I believe that yes, those are the names.

MR LUBBE: And the handgrenade or the description of the handgrenade that you used in this attack is the F1 handgrenade which appears in charge 8 on page 19 of the bundle, is that correct?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: That is correct.

MR LUBBE: You were never charged with the murder of Mr Shongwe's mother, is that correct?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: That is correct.

MR LUBBE: But you in fact did associate yourself with the actions of Mr Hlongwane, is that correct?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: Yes, I did.

MR LUBBE: And do you also seek amnesty in respect of the death of Mrs Shongwe, the mother of Mr Shongwe?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: That's correct.

MR LUBBE: Now can we turn to charge 9, on page 19 of the bundle.  It is so, Mr Seemise, that you also pleaded guilty to this charge where it is alleged that you assaulted a person by the name of Tiki Tilli Malaza?  The particulars of that offence appear on page 20, paragraphs 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15.

JOSIAS SEEMISE: Will you please repeat that.

MR LUBBE: It is also correct that you were charged with the assault of Tiki Tilli Malaza, charge number 9, page 19 of bundle A, and the particulars of the assault appear in paragraphs 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15, on page 23 of the bundle.  Mr Chairperson, my client does not understand Afrikaans, if I may just freely translate this to him, so that he can associate with it.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.

MR LUBBE: It is alleged in paragraph 11, page 23, Mr Seemise, that during January to February '92, at Wesselton, Tiki Tilli Malaza was accompanied by two children and she was on her way to her sister-in-law.  One of the children, Nomza Malaza, was carried on her back.  On her way - paragraph 12, someone engaged in a conversation with her and that person presented himself as a debt collector.
	You then, accompanied by Mr Hlongwane, approached her on the basis that you wanted to ask her something - paragraph 13, you suddenly pulled a firearm, aimed and shot her, or shot at her and that you then ran away.  She was hit in the face and she sustained serious injuries.
	Paragraph 15:  The baby, Nomza Malaza, who was carried on her back was not injured.
	Now you did instruct me this morning that you've got no knowledge of this incident at all, although you've pleaded guilty and were found guilty, is that correct?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: That is correct.

ADV SANDI: That's not very clear to me.  Can you explain, is it a fact that you pleaded guilty to this incident?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: Yes, I did plead guilty, but at that time I did not understand that the offence related to Tiki Malaza, I actually mistook that incident for the other one that happened at the Nkosi household.  I think there was a mistake that was made there.

ADV SANDI: So is it presently the position that you are not really asking for amnesty in respect of this incident?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: No, I am not seeking amnesty because I do not recall it.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Mr Lubbe.

MR LUBBE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  The problem is, and I've advised my client, that he cannot seek amnesty for this and that even if he does get amnesty, he must serve his sentence, and he appreciates the fact.
	May I refer the Committee, with respect to page 122, 123 and 124 of the bundle, and I will come back to that later, but I just want to briefly inform the Committee that this in fact the incident that my client recalls, where Mr Hlongwane testifies about a Ms Nkosi, that also carried a baby on her back and which he shot at, and my client only pointed out to him who Ms Nkosi was.  My instructions are this morning that he was under the impression all along that this incident of Malaza referred to that of Nkosi.  As it pleases the Committee.
	Now charge number 10 was withdrawn.  Can we proceed to charge 11 and 12 of the bundle.  Please look at page 20, Mr Seemise, and also look for me at page 24, which is a summary of these events, paragraphs 16, 17, 18 and 19.
	Again with your permission, Mr Chairman, if I may translate that to my client.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR LUBBE: During the period - I'm translating this paragraph 16 to you.  During the period January to February '92, the Complainants in charges 11 and 12, Johannes Mabuza and his brother-in-law, Aron Kori Malinga, were busy serving a person in his tuck shop.  	Paragraph 17.  The accused, that is you, Mr Seemise, suddenly entered the shop and fired several shots with a handgun, then you ran away.
	Paragraph 18.  Johannes Mabuza was shot several times in the chest, resulting in serious injury.
	Paragraph 19.  Aron Kori Malinga wasn't injured at all.
Do you recall this incident?

JOSIAS SEEMISE: Yes, I do.

MR LUBBE: It would seem, according to the summary that I've put to you just now, that you acted on your own.  What is the position?  Can you inform the Committee about this incident.