Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-11-18

MR P WILLIAMS: I will quickly refer you to paragraph 18 of your affidavit.  In the first section of that you deal with an inference that you have arrived at.  You say that the, you assumed that the people knew that you were from Vlakplaas?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: And you also say that from the minute that you heard that the group intended attacking the police minibus, you took (...indistinct) in a serious light and that you personally believed that the group would carry out the attack.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: You also say that you were brought under the impression that the group associated themselves with the ANC or the UDF, because they called each other comrades?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, Sir, makabane means comrades.

MR P WILLIAMS: And on the following page you deal with certain submissions contained with certain statements contained in the second submission of the ANC to the Truth Commission, dated the 12th of May and is it correct that you merely include this section, because at the stage you had the perception that you were identified as a legitimate target for attack?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And that the ANC in their submission merely confirm that policemen were regarded as enemy of the people and that they could be attacked.

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Chairperson.

MR P WILLIAMS: The second last part of paragraph 18 you say that acts of torture were commonplace within the security establishment and that you had personally participated in acts of torture.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And then you list some of the shock or the torture methods that were used?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, you are saying that at the planning meeting or, in fact, you were brought to believe that the mission of the group was to attack a police mini-bus.  Can you give a definitive opinion whether this was, in fact, their true mission?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: I would tell this court that I believed that these men were going to attack this bus, but after a few things were revealed I realised that because of the rumours that they were being influenced to do this ...

MR P WILLIAMS: You are stating that that is rumours?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: But is it correct that at the time of the incident itself you personally believed that they were going to attack the police?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: And is it also correct that whilst or the night that you were, that you spent with the group, that you were informed by members of the group that they were patrolling the area on a nightly basis?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, can you just proceed to the attack itself.  If I can refer to the map or to the sketch, where were you based on this morning of the attack?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: On that morning of the attack I was in NY11 right at the top of the street.  I think five streets from where Mr Bellingan was.

MR P WILLIAMS: And then can you continue?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Whilst we were there we were told that the bus has passed, therefore, we can disperse.  I came down driving NY11 in a Kombi.  When I got to the intersection I saw men on my right-hand side.

MR P WILLIAMS: Before you proceed, is it correct that you were driving from east to west?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: Please continue on the, from east, on the map, into a western direction, down NY111.

CHAIRPERSON: He was driving from where Mr Bellingan had been parked.

MR P WILLIAMS: That is correct.
	Mr Chairman, I must just point out that it, he testified earlier that he was based further down the road and he proceeded past the place where Mr Bellingan was parked.  
	Continue.

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: As I approached the intersection of NY111 and NY1, I saw men on my right-hand side.  Sorry, sorry.  I told the other cars via a radio that it seems that these men are already here at this intersection.  I went across over NY1 and proceeded NY111 and approached a Dairy Belle Hostel from behind and I rejoined NY1 and when I arrived at the corner I unloaded the Riot Squad Police there.

MR P WILLIAMS: Excuse me, when is the first time or where were you when you for the first time heard shots being fired?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Whilst I was behind the Dairy Belle Hostel I heard some shots being fired.  As, when I appeared from the corner approaching NY1 I saw a man running carrying a firearm.

MR P WILLIAMS: Did you recognise that man?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: He was a Rasta man called Chris.  I saw him at that house.  Having passed him, he fell down.  He was being shot.  I brought the Kombi at a stop, where it was supposed to be.

MR P WILLIAMS: Did you, just before we get to that portion.  Did you see who shot Mr Chris?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: No, I did not see, because there were shots fired from all angles.

MR P WILLIAMS: Did you see anyone else being shot or lying on the ground at that stage?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: At that time I did not notice anyone lying on the ground.  The only person I saw again is the one, is the person I shot.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, can you tell the Committee, did you bring the, your car to a standstill or how did it come to stop?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: If I recall correctly, this car was already damaged in the engine, because it was being shot.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, what, after the car came to a standstill, what happened next?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: A man approached us raising his arms and he was talking in Xhosa saying that he will take us to where the rest of the group is.  One Sergeant from the Riot unit, he was a White Sergeant, said I should shoot this man and before I shot this man, as he was raising his arms, I saw his firearm and, therefore, we disarmed him.  The White Sergeant, I told him that this man was going to take us to where the rest of the team is, but he just said I must shoot him.  I shot him whilst he was lying on his back, I shot him in the head.  Thereafter this Sergeant told me that I should sit and he shot him in his stomach with the R1 Rifle whilst still lying on his back.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please show us how he raised his arms?  The applicant stood up holding his arms raised in the manner traditionally assumed when wishing to surrender, the hands-up position.

MR P WILLIAMS: And is it correct that this person who approached you at no time attempted to shoot you?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: He never tried to shoot us or even to reach for his firearm.

MR P WILLIAMS: Did you personally see how any of the other freedom fighters were killed?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, I saw the one who was being shot by Captain Bellingan.  It seemed as if he dragged him before actually shooting him.

MR P WILLIAMS: Do you know how many times he was shot?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: The, he shot twice.  He first dragged him out, then he shot him.  They were shooting from all directions, but I could not actually see whether was he, did he shoot him more than twice, but he was on his side.

CHAIRPERSON: On his side, lying on the ground?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Chairperson, the last time I saw him he was dragging him and shooting, but when this, when everything happened I was already looking the other direction, because of all this wild shooting.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, did you at any stage see Mr Jabu being shot?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: I never saw who shot him, I just saw him lying on the ground.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, in your affidavit, paragraph 22 you say that you are aware that Jimmy and Eric had weapons in their possession and at the time when they fled, they left the weapons in the bush?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.