Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Motlaung, you can proceed.

MR MOTLAUNG: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Prinsloo, the statement that was earlier on made by Mr Johan Smit, that these bombs were targeted at blacks, you don't seem to agree with that statement do you?

MR PRINSLOO: You see I don't agree with that entirely.  I'd like to express myself a little better by saying that at the stage of the attacks when we were waging the war, we felt that the overwhelming majority of the enemy or the supporters of the ANC in that respect as well as the SACP alliance with the ANC were black people.  That is how we saw it and that is how we had been socialised.

MR MOTLAUNG: No, I understand, but effectively it seems to me what you are saying is that there was never an instruction from the "generale staf" to the effect that black persons have to be attacked.  Was there ever such an instruction?

MR PRINSLOO: You must understand that at that stage it was pertinently put to everybody, everybody was aware of it, as well as the generals in staff, and this had been communicated to the various levels of command that it should only be black people who would be attacked because that is where the overwhelming majority of support lay for the government or for the ANC and the SACP alliance.  That is how it had been communicated during public meetings, in the media, in the press.

MR MOTLAUNG: Mr Prinsloo, I ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Would you agree Mr Prinsloo, that that would have been a very convenient explanation to avoid an allegation of racism against the AWB?

MR PRINSLOO: I hear what you're saying, but we felt the same way towards white ANC supporters, but because they constituted such a minority they were therefore very difficult to reach.  We wouldn't have had the same creation of a psychology of fear if we had pursued specifically those persons.
	We had to chose soft targets and more specifically soft targets of another colour and in this case ...[intervention]

MR MOTLAUNG: Mr Prinsloo, what I seem to understand and perhaps accept, is that most of the ANC/SACP alliance supporters are black, or were black but my question is actually whether there was a specific instruction that black people as such have to be attacked, by the "generale staf"

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, it had always been communicated that way.  It was specifically and pertinently stated as such on numerous occasions.

CHAIRPERSON: That the attacks should be aimed at black people?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Despite the fact that the ANC/SACP alliance comprised mostly black people?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct, because of the fact that black people constituted the major portion of the support for the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: The greatest amount of people?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that's correct.

MR MALAN: Might I just follow up on that please.
	We've heard evidence that the AWB was positive towards Inkatha, Mangope and Bophuthatswana and probably other institutions of groups as well.  Weren't their supporters exclusively or even more exclusively black than the ANC/SACP support basis?

MR PRINSLOO: I understand what you are saying but the fact of the matter remains that it would have been very difficult for us to, for example, determine in Germiston or in Johannesburg who would be which supporters.  We had narrow contact with certain other groups of other colour, we had to create that psychology of fear by hitting on soft targets.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] create this psychology of fear?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the alliance have to do with it?  Why didn't you set off a bomb on a rugby field during a rugby match for example, or a cricket match or a soccer match?

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson, lives had to be taken pertinently.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well I'm speaking of a supposed incident that could take place during a sports match.

MR PRINSLOO: Well at that stage we had to be very cautious because we couldn't afford to be caught out.  At least the people who were to commit the acts were not to be caught out and this public gathering or any public gathering would have been very closely guarded.

MR MOTLAUNG: Mr Prinsloo, at some stage you were asked the question regarding the supporters of, for example, the Democratic Party that were in the election or participating in the election, and you gave the answer that they were rather too safe in the suburbs there, like Lower Houghton it seems.  Were you in fact giving the impression that were they not so safe you would have attacked them, despite the fact that they were white?

MR PRINSLOO: I don't understand, could you just rephrase that please.

MR MOTLAUNG: I'm saying, at some stage when you were answering a question regarding the Democratic Party, and apparently within the context that one of your big aims was to stop the elections from proceeding.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: You were then asked a question: "What about the Democratic Party supporters because they had declared that they were going to participate in the elections, why didn't direct your bombs at them"?  And it seems to me your answer was: "They were too safe.  The police concentration in their area was so high that they were too safe there".  I'm then asking you, are you then intending to create the impression that if they were not safe because there were too many police there, you would still have attacked them?

MR PRINSLOO: If they weren't safe?

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: I can't answer that question because I don't know what the circumstances would have been and the circumstances would have determined the modus operandi at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I think that the aim of the question was to ask, had it not been for the protection which they would have had during the incidents, would you have considered planting bombs among them as well?

MR PRINSLOO: I believe that it would have been a consideration.

MR MOTLAUNG: You say that you believe it would have been considered, but it seems to me the "generale staf" was very clear in its instruction that black people were to be attacked and therefore the DP supporters wouldn't be involved, do you agree with me?  Inasfar as the attacks went.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct, because at that stage the necessary information which was available to us had been tabled and it would have been senseless or futile to us to move into such a well protected area.

MR MOTLAUNG: And one of the big aims too of this whole bomb trend was to twist the arm of the government isn't it, to stop the elections from proceeding?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: And by the government you mean the government of the National Party which was essentially white, correct?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: Would you agree with me that it would have made more impact on the government - and maybe if I pose this question, did you believe that the government of the day could stop the elections if it wanted to?  Assuming somehow you persuaded it to stop the elections from proceeding.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, it could have.

MR MOTLAUNG: Would you then agree with me that if you had to bomb white suburbs for example, that would necessarily have had more impact on the government, in terms of persuading them from not proceeding with their actions?

MR PRINSLOO: Right-wing groupings had a number of national offices in the Western Transvaal and elsewhere.

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes, but it seems to me you had learnt from history that by attacking things like offices or strictly military targets, the impact was not as efficient as on civilians?  Hadn't you learnt that lesson?