Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-17

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, if I'm wrong with a few turnoffs or roads please excuse me but I'm going to give you the route plus minus, it's four to five years ago.  We drove into Krugersdorp from Koesterfontein with the bomb and then we drove on Ondekkersweg, then we drove and we turned off, went past the SABC building, I think it's Empire Road, and then we drove over the hill at Braamfontein, then we crossed the tracks and into Bree Street.

MR LANDMAN: Mr le Roux, if you took that road you could have planted this bomb at the SABC building could you not?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, we could have.

MR LANDMAN: You could have planted it at the Brixton Tower?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, but that wasn't Johannesburg Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: When you talk about Johannesburg are you talking about the city centre?

MR LE ROUX: Johannesburg itself, it had to happen in the middle of Johannesburg, that was my instruction.

MR LANDMAN: At what stage did you decide to leave the car on the corner of Bree and Von Wielligh?

MR LE ROUX: In my mind I had an idea of how the area looked and I decided that we must get to that specific point and that's why I indicated it and it was also my instruction to indicate to the others where to place the bomb.
	I drove into the first parking space, the car couldn't fit and then the second one I also drove in and realised they could fit the car in there.

MR LANDMAN: Were you at the farm when you decided that that is where you are going to leave the car?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, the general vicinity, not the specific spot.

MR LANDMAN: Did you notice whether there were any cafe's near that corner?

MR LE ROUX: At that stage I didn't observe very much but I think on the far side on the left-hand side there must have been a cafe, I'm not quite sure.

MR LANDMAN: Did you realise that people might come in and out of that cafe to buy bread and milk and the rest?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And you were happy that those people should be caught up in the bomb blast?

MR LE ROUX: I was tasked to do this and I saw it as such, that whoever was there would be caught in the cross-fire.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but the question is not whether you were tasked to do this.  Were you not worried about this?

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, at that stage I firmly believed that we are entering into a struggle and I wasn't concerned with any loss of life.  I thought I was doing the right thing.

MR LANDMAN: Now Mr le Roux, you obviously know that area fairly well, are you aware of a hotel by the name of the Diplomat Hotel?

MR LE ROUX: No, Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: You say you do know that there are a number of escort agencies in that area?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: On what occasion did you come to notice them?

MR LE ROUX: That is with the driving past that I can remember them being there.

MR LANDMAN: So you knew people would be coming in and out of those places as well?

MR LE ROUX: It could be Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: Do you know whether there are any churches in that area?

MR LE ROUX: I can't imagine that.  If there was a church I wouldn't have targeted a church.

MR LANDMAN: Now did you intend this bomb to cause damage to all the buildings in that area?

MR LE ROUX: As many as possible Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: Did you intend that some of the building should fall down?

MR LE ROUX: If it was possible Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And did you know that there were people living in flats in that area?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, I thought that Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And in order to publicise your desire for a Volkstaat you were prepared to allow those people to be buried in the rubble should the buildings fall down, is that right?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: Mr le Roux, at the time that the members of the AWB were asked to gather at Trim Park in Ventersdorp, did you at that stage know that the AWB had now decided that the Western Transvaal would become the homeland, the Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And people were asked to gather in that area to protect the borders of the Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: That is correct Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And to protect the AWB as well, their headquarters?

MR LE ROUX: That's correct.

MR LANDMAN: So the only public orders that were given by the leadership of the AWB were to protect or that those people who came together at the Trim Park should protect the borders of the Volkstaat and to protect the AWB's headquarters, is that correct?

MR LE ROUX: No, Chairperson, that was not the principle.

MR LANDMAN: I'm not talking about the principle, I'm talking about the order that was publicly given to people.

MR LE ROUX: No, that order was not given just like that, there was a much broader command given.

MR LANDMAN: When you gathered at the Trim Park, were you then satisfied that the AWB's Volkstaat had now started to take shape, you now had an area, the Western Transvaal and this was going to be your Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: That's correct Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: And if somebody came in there, such as the army came in to occupy parts of your Volkstaat, would you then have defended the Volkstaat against that?

MR LE ROUX: No, no such plans were made then as far as I knew.

MR LANDMAN: You see Mr le Roux, what I don't understand is if you had your Volkstaat in your own minds then why were you bombing people outside the areas of your Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: I just want to say that there wasn't a Volkstaat yet.  We wanted to enforce one and that's why we planted the bombs.

CHAIRPERSON: Were any of the authorities asked about this Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: I don't understand that question Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there a request?

MR LE ROUX: The Volksfront effected the request to the NP for a Volkstaat.  That was general knowledge with us Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And was it requested from the ANC, which according to your opinion was on the point of taking over the power in the country?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, I was aware of that Chairperson. General Viljoen at that stage was part of the right and he was busy with two parts, the one with negotiations as I've said and the other, the violent option and that was concerned with the Volkstaat Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And what was the result?

MR LE ROUX: As far as I was concerned as well as most of us, that there wasn't an answer to the negotiations.

CHAIRPERSON: And because there wasn't an answer you thought it was a good idea to go and plant bombs in order to demand an answer?

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, I was part of the violent option and we planted it with the purpose to obtain the Volkstaat.

MR LANDMAN: Mr le Roux, are you seriously suggesting that people who have waited three centuries in order to vote in their own government would, by a few bombs planted here and there in the Gauteng area, would choose not to vote?

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, that was a thing which came over a long time.  There were several bomb explosions and there were several people who negotiated.  People from the right negotiated with the government of the day, they even negotiated with the ANC, that was General Viljoen.  We thought that it would be a much broader thing.
	I'm sure a lot of people know that the army was also in the balance and that a part of the army could have moved over to the right and that some of the units for example who had armed vehicles would join the right-wing.  There was a big thing, it wasn't just a small little story.

MR LANDMAN: You say that one of the reasons for the bomb was to persuade people not to vote, is that right, not to continue with the election?

MR LE ROUX: No, I did not say that.

MR LANDMAN: Well what was the purpose of the bombing?  What did you hope to achieve by that?

MR LE ROUX: I've said several times already Chairperson, it was to cause fear, to stop the elections.

MR LANDMAN: Now you say there had been bombing before that as well, before the 24th of April?