Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-31

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I must say since I was born and bred but I started to become a proactive ANC member as from 1984 and thereafter I was involved in the Trade Union activities in 1989.

MR WILLS: Now just around the time of the incident, the incident in respect of which Mr Mthembu is applying for amnesty, that is in September 1992, prior to that are you able to say whether or not you knew of Cosatu officials or ANC members having violent attacks directed toward them?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, I am aware of too many incidents where the ANC and Cosatu members were being attacked and in some cases their houses were burnt down and lives were also lost in the process of which one of the victims was Ken Shandu.

MR WILLS: Now my understanding is that this violence was not only restricted to the area within which you operated but also was extended to places like Isekaweni, is that correct?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, incidents of that sort did take place around Isekaweni, Mtambeni and other surroundings areas of Mandene.

MR WILLS: Now I want you to focus on the role that you were playing in regard to your ANC portfolio at the time around the attack, what position did you in fact hold?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: In fact I must say I was a political commissar in the ANC / MK underground structure.

MR WILLS: Now for how long or when did you first hold that position and for how long did you hold that position?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I had that position from having obtained the military training in 1985.

MR WILLS: And in respect of which area were you deployed?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I was deployed to be rendering the organising mission of the ANC around the North Coast of which Mandene was one of the areas that I was responsible for.

MR WILLS: Now you've heard the Applicant in his evidence make reference to a person by the name of Msizi Mkunu, do you know that person?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes, I know Msizi Mkunu as a Commissar in the military but he was later a commander of Umkhonto in Northern Natal by the time when the incident took place so he was a commander in chief in the office of ...(inaudible) security of the ANC.

MR WILLS: Now do I understand your evidence that he was in fact the overall commander for the Northern Natal region of the ANC at that stage?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes, correct.

MR WILLS: Now do you bear any knowledge of the evidence that the Applicant gave in respect of the instructions he received from Mr Mkunu to guard the house of Mr Shandu and in fact Mr Shandu's existence?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, I was aware as I used to coordinate the activities of the MK in the area, so I am aware of the instructions that were given to Dumisani by Msinzi being the commander in chief.

MR WILLS: Now Mr Mthembu's also testified to the effect that he was supplied a Stetchkum machine pistol from Mr Mkunu, can you testify to the Commission whether or not this is in fact the truth?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: This is the truth and nothing, it is the truth, he was given the Stetchkum as an instrument to use and safeguard the life of Mr Shandu who was in the brink of being attacked.

MR WILLS: Now turning to the actual event itself, that is the events of the morning of the 2nd of September 1992, Mr Mthembu has testified that you were in the house and we know that is in fact correct.

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, I was in the house.

MR WILLS: Now can you describe briefly what occurred from, why you woke up and thereafter.

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I was fast asleep and I hear the storm of gunshots firing into the house of the room in which we were and the glasses that came up around my face made me to actually wake up apart from the noise of the gunshot that I heard when I woke up.

MR WILLS: Now in bundle of documents that I have been supplied with by the Truth Commission, there are statements from the police members who conducted the raid and they are emphatic to the effect that they knocked on the door and notified that they were the police prior to any shots being fired, can you comment on that?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I vehemently oppose that statement made by the police as being the total blue lie.  The only time and the only moment when I ever heard a gunshot that came through and the glasses that came through the window and thereafter the noise of a man who was saying Willem skiet, Willem skiet (Willem shoot, Willem shoot) -that was a command from outside.

MR WILLS: Now I showed Mr Mthembu some photographs which he identified as being taken of Mr Shandu's house.  I would like you to have a look at these photographs.  You will notice that there are, they are photographs which depict certain bullet holes in both the interior and exterior walls of the house.  Are you able to tell this Committee whether those bullet holes were there before the attack?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: I must testify that these bullet holes were not in the walls before the attack, they only happened to be the holes in the wall after the incident, in other words they are a direct result of an attack by the police.

MR WILLS: Now you've heard Mr Mthembu give evidence to the effect that after the shooting ceased, the occupants of the house were essentially flushed out and ordered to come out with their hands up, one by one.

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, that happened after Vincent Shandu has asked who the attackers were.

MR WILLS: At the time the bullets were going off, did you know who the people were outside who were shooting?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: No, we didn't know who the people outside were except that I could only, as a person who also understands and speak fluent Afrikaans, I could only hear the voice of a man saying skiet (shoot) and it may be upon that assumption that one would assume that it's a certain koevoet operation.  That's what comes into my mind I must say.

MR WILLS: Okay now you went, you together with others were essentially under the arrest of the police on the outside of the house, is that correct?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed.

MR WILLS: Can you tell me what happened to you when you walked outside, how were you asked to position yourself?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: In the first place I must say I was half dressed having only the ...(inaudible) with me and we were commanded to come out.  The man whom I identified later as Mr Botha said, come out - put your hands in the air otherwise I shoot, otherwise I shoot, come out,  come out, come out.  Then we had to come out having our sort of arms hanging over like this, not like this otherwise he was not going to see them.
	You could firstly come out with your hands and then he could - he probably grabbed me so to say right up here and he brought me down just to the floor and I had to lie down.  When I laid down on the floor, just like this and ...(inaudible) had to put the firearm - it was a R5 that was brought before my head like this and he said Mr Mnjeni, watch out this one, if he moves just shoot.  The R5 was just on top of the head right straight throughout the whole process.

MR WILLS: Okay, I think the evidence of Mr Mthembu was - if my memory serves me well - was that he actually came out after you, do you recall the order when people came out?

VUSIMUSI ISRAEL MTULE: Yes indeed, Dumisani came after me.  It was firstly Vincent Shandu then I came and to all of us the man by the name of Mr Botha used to say - come out otherwise I shoot, ...(inaudible) otherwise I shoot.  It was a very hard command.

MR WILLS: Okay now, are you in a position to tell the Committee whether or not Mr Mthembu was injured at that stage of the proceedings?