Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-05-25

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you for that Mr Radie.  Would you agree with me to say that as a member of the National Party, definitely the people who are mostly in your company would be mostly supporters of your party although you are not autocratic, that it's necessary that all of them should be the members of the National Party or supporters of the National Party, would you agree with me that mostly it would be people who agree with your views?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I would agree that there were some members of the National Party present who took part in the tournament but the tournament itself was participated in by members of other political persuasions.  And certainly there were no political speeches, there were no political flags flown, there was absolutely no indication in effect that it was in any way sponsored by the National Party.
	That does not exclude the possibility that there was political motive for the attack in the sense that it was decided to attack a soft target.  May I just mention Chair, that I do have a video recording of the news bulletin which took place on the evening after the attack and also a video recording of myself being interviewed on Agenda by Madam Collie Long, which I can make available, I have it with me, to the Committee for it's records.  I think that will probably amplify the situation, if the Committee wishes to use it.

MS GCABASHE: If I might just ask at this point Mr Mbandazayo.
	Is this the news bulletin where Bennie Alexander ...[indistinct] himself ...[indistinct]
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: That is ...[inaudible]

MS GCABASHE: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Would you Mr Radie, agree with me that the intelligence report is not always accurate?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Of course.  Quite frequently intelligence is not as accurate as it should be.  I serve on the Joint Committee on National Intelligence at the moment in Parliament and so I'm aware of these things.  You don't always get absolutely accurate information.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.  And that is the reason why most of the time the raids of the South African Defence Force and the police were always killing so-called innocent people?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I think that's a very general question put to me and I have no specific knowledge of that particular suggestion.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Let me quote a recent example
"1993:  Attack in Umtata where school kids were killed in their sleep"

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I'm not qualified to comment on that particular attack but all I can say is that obviously it was a tragedy and it may well have been the result of inaccurate intelligence information.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Would you agree with me that the confrontation, the confrontational politics in our country was a result of the policies of your party?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: It was the result of the apartheid policy, of that I have no doubt.  And I may add that as far as my own personal situation was concerned, I entered politics in 1981 when I stood for the New Republic Party and defeated the National Party Candidate of the day in King William's Town, for the King William's Town constituency, for the Provincial Council and I crossed the floor to the National Party in 1985 after Mr P W Botha's: "adapt or die" speech, when the New Republic Party had folded up and when I decided to go into the National Party in order to work from within to rid it of the policy of apartheid.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Would you also agree with me that inasmuch as you were in the, not in the National Party initially, whether in the DP or PFP or whatever the party, rather than National Party, you were there because you belonged to the privileged group in the country, that is the white community?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I was fortunate at the time to have been born white yes, and privileged certainly.  But I've certainly worked hard to make amends for that subsequently.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And also that even today you are still reaping the fruits of being that privileged, being in that privileged group?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Can I ask what you mean by; "reaping the fruits"?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Like even your, you correct me if I'm wrong, that you had a business in King William's Town
and the building you have leased to the Government and you are earning a lot out of that.  It far exceeds what you were getting whilst you were still running that business.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the relevance of this as to what took place at the golf club?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, what I'm getting at is that what happened on the day in question was the results of the policies of his party, that ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that we dealt with.  You are now talking to him about his private earnings as a result of owning a business.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I may have taken it from a different perspective.  Mr Chairman definitely, as a result of being in that privileged class at the expense of the other groupings in the country which also belonged to the country, he managed to be in that position.  That is what I'm trying to get at, as a result of the policies of his party.

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I'm happy ...[intervention]

MR MBANDAZAYO: In any event Mr Chairman, I ...[intervention]

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: I'm happy to answer that question.  I certainly don't the business referred to which I presume is Radie ...[indistinct] Holdings, that you're talking about.  My shares were sold in 1985 in that regard so I have no interest there.  I have no interest in the legal profession any longer as I'm no longer a partner of Barnes and Ross in King William's Town.  And I'm just wondering if you are suggesting perhaps one of the reasons why the attack took place and I was a target was because I was one of the rich and privileged whites in the community.  Is that the suggestion on the part of the applicants?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Well let me answer this way, is it correct that all the white people had a right to vote?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Certainly, that was the position at the time, yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you were put, the National Party was put into power by the white community?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And as such they agreed with your racist policies to subjugate that African people?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: At the time yes, but things have changed considerably and the National Party took the decision under ex-President de Klerk, to do away completely with apartheid.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

MR LAX: Just one question Mr Radie, were there actually high ranking police officers of Security Force officers who may have been there as your guests on that day?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: No, Sir, not to my knowledge.

MR LAX: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I have been to King William's Town a few times.  I don't know the town but I presume like most towns of that size, you would at a function such as the wine tasting and as part of the centenary celebration, expect to find at it more the important people in the community that would of necessity mean perhaps the senior policeman, the senior army officers if there were any there, the doctors, the lawyers and people like that?

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Judge, yes, the Wine Tasting Association was mainly supported by a number of the Rotarians who are various leaders in their own field and members of the professions and so on.

CHAIRPERSON: And that is what one would expect because it wasn't aimed at any section of the community like that, it was merely that in a small town you find all the people who are running the town, at the functions.

RAYMOND JULIUS RADIE: Absolutely yes, I quite agree.

MR PRIOR: There is nothing in re-examination, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR PRIOR