Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-17

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I am seeking amnesty because I was arrested, prosecuted and sentenced for a confession that I - for a crime that I did not commit and I was sentenced thirty five (35) years for this crime and I know that it was Mpumelelo and Doctor who had shot the person and disarmed him, and my only role was to go and check out the place thereafter.  I have sought amnesty for this and I am only seeking amnesty because I am in prison sentenced and serving time for something I did not do.

MR MAPOMA: Were you in the same unit as Mr Mvijane?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Do you associate yourself with the act that was committed by Mr Mvijane and another?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I would not say whether I do or I do not because I did not shoot the person, I did not take that gun, I did not participate in the crime, I only went to survey the place and I thereafter informed him that there was an eyewitness.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you.  Thank you, Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Questions?

ADV SIGODI: After you were arrested did you see Moss again?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: No, I did not see him again.

ADV SIGODI: He never came to see you in prison?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: No, he did not come.

ADV SIGODI: Did any PAC people come to see  you in prison?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes, some of them did.

ADV SIGODI: And who came to see you?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Some I do not remember their names, I do not know their names well.

ADV SIGODI: How do you know that they were PAC?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Because they would come to see us as a group of PAC inmates.

ADV SIGODI: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Questions?

MR LAX: Just one, Chairperson.  I'm still not sure or not clear in my own mind on this issue of whey in your application you say you participated in this thing when in fact you didn't.  If you say you didn't participate in this thing and you're applying because you knew about it, why didn't you say that in your application?  Instead you say that you did participate in this thing.  Please explain that to me, because I'm really not clear on this explanation.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: As far as the application is concerned, I have applied for everything that I've been sentenced for.  What is contained in the application is in there and I'm seeking amnesty for it because I did not fully participate in the actual incident, but I have been sentenced for it.

MR LAX: Well, you see, you say here that Moss asked you to go and disarm this traffic cop of his service pistol.  Moss did no such thing.  You say that here.  Those are your very words here in Clause 4 of the application form, right at the very top, see?
"On the 20th of August we were at my friend's home and a man, namely as Moss who was coming from Tanzania asked us to go and disarm a traffic cop of his service pistol and as we were already engaged to the struggle we went there and my friend Mpumelelo produced a pistol and pointed it to the inspector ..."
Etcetera.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I explained that I made the application because of the sentence that I'm serving and because of the confession that I made before the trial.

MR LAX: But in the trial it was never disclosed that you were on a mission.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Please repeat the question.

MR LAX: Was the trial run on the basis that you were an APLA unit carrying out a command of Moss?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: At court we denied our involvement in the crime and we did not mention anything about APLA.

MR LAX: Exactly.  So nowhere in the court case did Moss' instruction to you come up.  Why then do you say Moss ordered you to take this gun from this traffic cop when Moss didn't do any such thing?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I don't think we understand each other.  I explained that the application is because of that confession that I made to the police which wrongfully got me sentenced about this crime.

MR LAX: Are you saying that in your confession you said that Moss ordered you to go and take that firearm from the traffic cop?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: With regards to the confession, I was told what Mpumelelo had already said and that I should actually compliment what he said so that I would not be tortured further and that he had said that we had been ordered to go do this crime, and therefore I made the confession accordingly.

MR LAX: You see, the confession doesn't say anything about Moss ordering you to do this.  I've read it before.  It's here on page 62 of the bundle, the relevant portion of it.  Page 62.  Now, if you read it or someone reads it to you, you will see very clearly there's no mention of instructions of APLA, of anything of that kind.  There's just the three of you involved in this thing, according to this confession.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I do not know, but as I have already explained, I was told what to write in the confession and that is how I came to apply for amnesty.

MR LAX: Yes, I know, but you've just told us what you remembered about being told to write here and it's not the same.  Now, when you apply for amnesty you understand that you were telling us the truth.  Did you not understand that?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I do know that, but with regards to the application I actually explained everything to the person who wrote the application for me and he did indeed write.  He wrote as I was telling him.  So I do not know if he wrote what I was indeed telling him.  I think I made three or four statements, therefore I do not know which one is indeed before us today.

MR LAX: When you say you made three or four statements, are you referring to the trial or are you referring to your amnesty application?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: The statement that I have in the application form is the statement that ...[end of tape]

MR LAX: I'm talking to you about your application for amnesty now, and I'm talking in particular about paragraph 4 which is on the second page of that application at the top, which you've read already, correct?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I was told what to say.  I don't think I understand you fully now, maybe I'm losing you.

MR LAX: Okay.  I think you are losing me.  I'm referring to your amnesty application form which is different to the statement that I've referred you to previously.  It's a handwritten form.  Is that the one in front of you now?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes.

MR LAX: When you had this form filled out on your behalf, you understood that you were supposed to be telling us the story you would rely on to apply for amnesty, is that right?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: When I made the application what I knew was that I should mention what was actually said at the trial and how the trial progressed.  That is what I wrote in the application form.

MR LAX: So the question that you answered was, "Furnish particulars of the acts or omissions associated with the political objective in respect of which amnesty is sought, including dates, places, names and any other persons involved".  That's what you were asked to fill in there, and then you filled in the offences.  Can you see, under acts, omissions and offences?  Sorry, it's on page one, Mr Mbandazayo.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: ...[no English translation]

MR LAX: Okay.  Then you filled out the date, and you filled out the place.  Do you see that?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes.

MR LAX: And then you were asked, "Nature and particulars".

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I can see it.

MR LAX: Now there you say you filled out what you were convicted for?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes.