Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No, I do not know them, it was the first time I saw them.  They were ill-treating us, they had guns.  They
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were drinking alcohol, swearing at us.  There was a short one with alcohol, he is from Middelburg.
 I don't know whether there were any policemen from Venterstad.

JUNE CRICHTON: (Indistinct)

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: I am not sure.  I was just told that they were from Middelburg.  I want to know how did they get here, where did they get the right to get and kill people at Venterstad.  I did not have money to investigate the whole matter.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs Mbalula, there is just one last question.  You told us about your husband and his death, we don't have anything on our statement about that.  Have you actually testified or had information taken down by the Truth Commission about your husband?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No, there was a mistake.  My husband is not actually dead.  It is my sister-in-law that passed away.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much indeed.  I hand you back to the Chairman now.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  Revd Xundu?

REV XUNDU: When your sister-in-law was shot, the ANC was already unbanned, is that so?  Should I repeat my question?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Yes please.

REV XUNDU: What I am saying is that when your sister-in-law passed away, the ANC was no longer banned?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Do you mean was the ANC in power?

REV XUNDU: No, no, but the ANC was unbanned?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No, it was not unbanned yet.

REV XUNDU: I am not asking you Ma'am, I am telling you.  Why do you think that these police did what they did even though the ANC was unbanned?
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POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: These Boers had no decorum, the children was still in the struggle, they had burnt down a Municipal police car.  They also burnt down an I&J car that was delivering meat.  Then the hippo came, the casper came and they were shooting everybody in sight.

REV XUNDU: So you don't know the names of these police?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No, I don't, they are from Middelburg.  They came in a kombi.

REV XUNDU: How many children are you supporting that was supposed to be supported by your sister-in-law?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: There was four of them, but I gave the other three away and I looked after the baby.  After my sister-in-law passed away, I gave the children back to their father in Pretoria.  I then was left with the baby.

REV XUNDU: Who is supporting the children?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: It is the father, I am not in touch with him at all.

REV XUNDU: If the Commission would investigate, do you think that these children would need some kind of compensation?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: So you say that after this terrible incident, after losing your sister-in-law, started deteriorating?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: ; Yes, we did not even have much support.  We only received the R600-00 which was divided amongst members of the family.
 We are still in debt as we could not pay all our debts off.  People wanted their money back.

REV XUNDU: Do you have records of such debts?  Do you have receipts?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: As I was still investigating this whole case,
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the Magistrate told me that there would be a court case.  There was a court case, the Boers came, they had no respect for any one.  It was almost like they were drunk, they kept on laughing even in court, but they had their own attorney.
 Even the attorney was not behaving well.  I had not legal representative, but I had hope because I was told that the ANC would send a legal representative, but they did not.
 I then asked the attorney, I told him that I did not kill my sister-in-law.  I then asked him who is going to pay for the funeral and support these children.  The attorney then asked if my sister-in-law had not been buried yet.
 I said no, she has been buried, but I had to ask people for money.  He then said I must write a letter recording all the debt.  The letter must then go to the police station, the police station will send it to an attorney and then the attorney will see what to do.

REV XUNDU: Was this said in the presence of the Magistrate, was that the conclusion, did you follow up, did you take those steps?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: I was not satisfied.

REV XUNDU: So the Commission can actually enquire about this conclusion.  Where now is the brother-in-law?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: He is not well, he is a bit deranged.   He does work now and again, but he is deranged.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Ma'am, thank you Mr Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Tiny Maya?

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I would like to ask you a few questions.  Did you say you went to Social Workers to ask for help?   Did you get proper help?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No, I did not, I am still trying to get help from Social Workers.
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MS MAYA: Which Social Workers are these, are they from Venterstad?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: No.

MS MAYA: Do you know the name?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: It is Van Gonner.

MS MAYA: Secondly, you talked about a Death Certificate.

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: We eventually got the Death Certificate the second time.  The court case - I was investigating the whole case and eventually I got the Death Certificate.

MS MAYA: thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Sandi?

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mrs Mbalula, initially when you were talking, giving evidence you said that in Venterstad there was no law as such.  What did you mean?
 Did you mean that the police did whatever they pleased with the people?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Yes, they did whatever they pleased.  The police did whatever they pleased with the people.

MR SANDI: Would the people of the community go to the charge office to press charges?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: People would go but nothing would be done about that.  I realised when I went to press charges, that they did not care.

MR SANDI: When people would go to the charge office, were they helped by the police?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: I can't speak for other people, I suppose they would welcome them when they come there, but they would not make follow ups.

MR SANDI: Are there other people perhaps a group of people, that had been beaten or tortured or shot by the police?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Yes, my sister-in-law's son, one of my
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sister-in-law's sons, had been beaten by the police.  Also a ten year old and a six year old child.  There was teargas, there was an old lady as well who was blind, who could not walk, but they shot teargas where she was.
 They did not care.

MR SANDI: Is there someone in Venterstad, even one person, who was shot or beaten by police and then the police was arrested and sentenced in a court of law?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: I have never heard of such.  I can only talk about what I know.  I had just arrived at Venterstad, when this chaos erupted.
 These children were just at home, but somehow they would get detained and beaten up.

MR SANDI: What I would like to know is that there is not one single police that got arrested and sentenced in a court of law for having behaved in such a way?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: I've heard that there is one police who lost his job because of the way he treated people.

MR SANDI: ; Therefor what you are saying is that the police themselves were the law in Venterstad?

POLINA NOLESE MBALULA: Yes, I would say that it is so.

MR SANDI: Thank you.  Mrs Mbalula, thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.