Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-17

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: At the time, Mr Chairperson, we used to say that everything came due to the formation of the National Party Government.   That was the enemy, the BLA, in the community they were considered as enemy because they sold people out, the Councillors sold people out, because at that time they did not consult with people, they did not act in favour of the needs of the people.   They stopped water for the people and this clearly showed that they were enemies of the community.

MR BLOEM: Mr Blaau can I just have your comments on the following.   The applicant testified that he went to Uitenhage with the intention of killing Mrs Hanabe because of a decision which was taken in Klipplaat to the effect that she should be eliminated.  Are you aware of that decision?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: I do understand your question, Mr Chairperson.  As I have already said the decision was taken by the community that Mrs Hanabe was not seen as part of Klipplaat community or as one of the leaders of the people of Klipplaat.  I do know about the decision that steps had to be taken against her.

JUDGE WILSON: Do you know that her house had been burnt and that she had left Klipplaat and gone to live at Uitenhage?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Mr Chairperson, the burning down of Mrs Hanabe's house, it was burnt down the same day that the ANC Youth League comrades were attacked.   I also reported this to the police.   EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	102	MR BLAAU
On that day no one could say that the house was burnt down by the supporters of the ANC, because up until today there is no clear evidence who actually burnt down that house.

JUDGE WILSON: Well the applicant has told us that it was burnt down by his comrades and that he knows the names of them.

HASSAN MALL: And that the houses of two other Councillors were burnt down.

JUDGE WILSON: Are you seriously telling us you didn't know that it was burnt down by members of the ANC?  If so, I will ask the applicant to give us the names of the people, so you can identify them.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: As I have already said, Mr Chairperson, I do understand the question, but what I am saying is this was a struggle between two opposing organisations and at that time it was very difficult to clearly say who burnt the house because it might happen that the AmaAfrica people were responsible for the burning of the house. If he knows the names of the comrades I am not aware of that, but people who were arrested were arrested for public violence.  I never heard that they were arrested for burning down this house, because I was one of the people who were organising for lawyers for them at that time.

JUDGE WILSON: And you know about the other two Councillors' houses that were burnt down.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Mr Chairperson, I only know an ANC member's house that was burnt.   There was an old man named Mr Gele, his house was at the back of AmaAfrica.   That day Mr Gele's house was burnt down and he was a member of the ANC.   That was the second house.   And we went there to try to put out the fire.

JUDGE WILSON: Do you know about the other two Councillors' houses who were burnt?  It's a simple question.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: No, I only know about the Mayoress's house.
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	103	MR BLAAU

JUDGE WILSON: And you say you were the Chairman of the ANC and endeavouring to persuade the Councillors to resign, but you do not know that two of their houses were burnt.   Is that the position?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Yes that is the position.   I was a Chairperson of the ANC and I only know of one house, the Mayoress's house.

JUDGE WILSON: For how long were you a Chairperson of the ANC, before 1991 and after 1991?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: As we all know the ANC was unbanned in 1991.  At that time it was then that we became leaders of the ANC.  Before I was a member of the Residents' Association, named Wora.  I was active in that organisation and the discussions concerning the Councillors' resignation started in 1991, in 1989 and I was elected last year to lead the ANC again.

HASSAN MALL: Last year?  When were you elected for the first time?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: It was in 1991 as I have already said.

JUDGE WILSON: Was is by February of 1991?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: We all know that the ANC was unbanned in February when Nelson Mandela was released and since then we were all organising, from January, because we knew that the ANC will be unbanned.   We prepared ourselves but the elections took place in February.

JUDGE WILSON: And the applicant must have known that, that you were the Chairperson?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: What about Jongi Lucas?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Jongi was an ex-official member of the ANC.   The Youth League member becomes an ex-member of the ANC.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: You were the Chairperson of the ANC's local branch of Klipplaat and not of the ANC Youth League.
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MR BLOEM	104	MR BLAAU

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: I was the Chairperson of the ANC local branch.

JUDGE WILSON: And did you have anything to do with the Youth League?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: What happened is as the ANC has different structures the ANC Youth League, the Chairperson becomes involved in the meetings of the branch and Women's League.  It is where they report about the progress of the organisation.   They have their own autonomy.

JUDGE WILSON: But you see the applicant just told us that you were an organiser and were one of the people who took the decision that the deceased, the woman in this case be eliminated.  Do you remember doing that?

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Mr Chairperson as I have already said the decision was taken in that meeting and I was part of that meeting.

JUDGE WILSON: This was a small meeting of about five people, not a mass meeting.  You have not told us about taking part in a small meeting, coming to this decision.  You now agree you were at a small meeting where the decision was taken by five of you, that she should be eliminated.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Mr Chairperson I can say that is correct, because what happened is the decision that people would see what to do in this situation.  As I have already said the organisation we have different people.  You find people who believe in the struggle, such as Ghandi's struggle, some were radicals within the organisation and some believed in peace.   And it happened that the comrades took the decision and they decided to do whatever was necessary.

JUDGE WILSON: Why do you keep trying to avoid telling us that you were one of those comrades who took that decision?  You keep saying other people, or the comrades.  Were you one of the people who took that decision that this woman must be eliminated?
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
JUDGE WILSON	105	MR BLAAU

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: Mr Chairperson, I am not running away from anything.  I was one of the people who wanted the truth to come out.  What I am saying is I was part of the meeting where the decision was taken that we will see what to do to get rid of Mrs Hanabe.  The comrades decided what to do.   After the... (tape ends)

HASSAN MALL: ... was taken, were you one of them to eliminate her, to kill her, that you were a party to that decision, is that correct?  That she should be killed?  Not that something should be done about her.   I  am  talking about that she should be killed.

SISWE MANNETJIE BLAAU: I did not say she has to be eliminated, but what I
said is that something has to be done.   The comrades will see what to do.

HASSAN MALL: So what you are saying is that you were not a part of a group that took a decision that she should be killed.  Is that what you are saying now, is that correct?