Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-25

MR BOOYENS: In other words, these operations - it should not be known that the security forces were involved?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Then there is a strategic communication document, what is the origin of this - it comes from a Captain Putter.  This is a document which has been attached in order to illustrate what this ...[inaudible] was that was so widely spoken of.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is so Mr Chairman..

MR BOOYENS: Once again it is dated 9th of October 1988, what is the content of this?  Was the contents known to you?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: In the early '80's or '70's?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: This seems to be a study document and a summary of what was happening in other countries.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: It is mentioned that every department had certain instruments allocated it and for which it was responsible in carrying out - 66.4, at the bottom of 66, the SA  police, law enforcement and Stratcom.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: On age 67, paragraph 4, reference is made to covert action also known as Stratcom and especially - according to what Mr de Jager asked you, secret actions which were carried out in a way that they could not be detected to achieve the objectives of national security policy.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR BOOYENS: Is this - let me ask you the following first, these kind of Stratcom  or covert actions, in the late '70', early '80's, was this the order of the day?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: What is pulver?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: I think it comes from Russia's Stratcom and that is what is being referred to there.

MR BOOYENS: And then mention is made that it concerns these actions that cannot be detectable in order to achieve the objectives of the national security policy.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: The document further then deals with - I'm just going to highlight some parts of the document and I want to refer to page 69, paragraph 18.1: "Stratcom is an instrument of the State which may be used".

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Paragraph 70 - it's actually 19.2, paragraph 19.2 on page 72.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That's true.

MR BOOYENS: The Western Governments emphasise the upholding of civilised values such as freedom of speech, individual rights and press freedom Stratcom concerns the secret manipulation of groups or undermining of organisations and the image which Governments wanted to uphold of themselves.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is true.

MR BOOYENS: So a lot has been said about the fact that the politicians in general were reluctant to admit that some unlawful deeds were carried out on their behalf, does it concern that?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: Yes, that is so Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Other countries are also referred to and their manner of dealing with such instances for example, in Britain there were British involved in - this is on page 71 and a number of similar deeds and how they acted in terms of sabotage and assassination.  On page 78, paragraph (g), "Secret Political Warfare in South Africa", an exposition is given of the Department of Information and what they did.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Mention is also made of some of the departments - that's on page 81 ...[inaudible] departments that were tasked by the State President to carry out these instructions.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: What is important to note on page 82 is paragraph 58: "Covert Stratcom is run in the South African police by the security branch".

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: And Stratcom actions in paragraph 3 are not unknown for the security branch, they have been busy on an ad-hoc basis for years with this.  The South African police is sometimes accused by implication by the press of Stratcom actions including assassinations, damage of property and sabotage.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Do you confirm that these documents give a summary of the philosophical background against which you found yourself as a policeman since the late '70's - a security policeman?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: On page 35, if I may return to the earlier part of the document, you sketch a general background of experience in the security branch?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is so.

MR BOOYENS: You mention which organisations you investigated including COSAS - that's on page 36, paragraph 2.8, is that correct?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is so Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: On page 37, you sketch the history of different cases where you were the investigating officer.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: You make a statement on page 37 that: "You were well grounded on the knowledge of certain liberation organisations"?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Nieuwoudt you have applied on page 38 for amnesty for the abduction, killing and removal of Mthimkhulu and Madaka?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: I think it is essential here to mention that your document corresponds with the applications of the former applicants.  I think you should start before the 14th of April 1982.  Were the deceased persons known to you?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: You were working under the command of Mr du Plessis?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: You were a Warrant Officer at the time?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Let's first of all handle Mr Mthimkhulu, what was the context that you got to know him and what role was he playing at the time?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: Mr Chairperson, he was involved or had been involved since 1976 during the Black consciousness activities of which he had played a prominent role in.  And at that period of time Black consciousness, in other words SASIN, the Black Consciousness Movement, the BBC had played a prominent role and this was also the run up to the 16th of June riots nationally of which on the 17th of August 1977, the unrest erupted in Port Elizabeth as well.

MR BOOYENS: So he was involved in these organisations.  When did he pertinently come to your attention?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: He persistently came to my attention in 1978 during the time of the deceased Robert Sobukwe's funeral, a Pan African Congress leadership figure at Graaff-Reinet.

MR BOOYENS: What happened there as far as Mr Mthimkhulu was concerned?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: At that stage the bodyguards of Mr Buthelezi were fired at.

MR BOOYENS: According to the information you have, who was responsible for the shooting?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: According to information the deceased Mthimkhulu, was responsible or he was involved in the shooting incident.

MR BOOYENS: Was he arrested?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: At a later stage after that he was arrested - before I turn to the Mr Chairperson, I want to mention that when they returned, there'd been busses which had gone from Port Elizabeth to attend the funeral.  As I recollect there was a policeman I think from Port Elizabeth, who was on the bus and if I remember correctly it was Sergeant Jalobe.  He was shot near to Jansenville while the bus had stopped for a moment to offload some people.  The information at that stage was that the deceased Mthimkhulu was responsible for the shooting.

MR BOOYENS: So you said he was arrested at a later stage?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is so Mr Chairperson.

MR BOOYENS: In connection with these incidents?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT: That is correct.