Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1996-11-20

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true, that's correct.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Bongani, I have about two questions.  I would like for you to explain concisely, is it a usual procedure that upon investigating some issues you will be assigned to do so much more, being the only person?

WITNESS:   It is difficult for me really to answer this question satisfactorily, because it depends upon the unit, and as to how many cases should be investigated.  When there are more cases the officer in charge then is in for it and it's a challenge.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Over how long a period did you investigate these cases?

WITNESS:   I have given you 80 as a figure of the cases.  You will find out that today I receive five cases in addition to what I already have.  You find out the following day I get 10, or probably six that have to be closed.  That put me in such a position and a situation that figures were - did vary to a great extent the whole time I have served that Riot Unit.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  How long is the time you are talking about?

WITNESS:   I remember I joined December 1987.  I will not quite remember, though I think it was late 90s when I was transferred.  Or let me say 1991 when I was transferred to Bulwer to work on the cases there.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Did you find this acceptable to you that you were so much busy investigating these various cases which were so intense?  Was there a reason?  Did you see any reason why - as for why at that time should you be transferred to Bulwer?  Do you think that was acceptable and was fair, or did you suspect some other things why this was done?

WITNESS:  At that time nothing really came into my mind except I just said to myself, "It's fine, let me go and work."  One other thing when it comes to you, like in my case, in  Bulwer I was going to be placed in a position of being in charge of the cases that were related to the violence.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: There is a situation at times like those that do prevail, and you see it clear that you are being transferred because you are seen as an expert in what you are doing.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Bongani, according to my opinion I think if you were so much of an expert I think you were supposed to be kept in this area and finish up the work that you already started, instead of being transferred.

WITNESS:   I will not repudiate that, but I am just telling you things that happened there, and getting instructions from the commanders telling me I should do this and that.  I did not see myself in a state or probably wanting to say something to them.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Did you not feel bad, or get to a point where you felt bad, and also thinking that you were being disturbed from your work?

WITNESS:   Yes, of course I did feel bad, because already the relationship I had already developed with the victims of the Seven Day War, that was not easy.  I knew that one day they also wish and hope that they will succeed in their cases, and also that it was my wish.  But I had no two ways about it.  When they told me I have to be transferred I had to comply and adhere to the arrangements.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Bongani, one question.  I was touched here by your opinion that the incident of the Seven Day War was a massacre.  That's how you've put it.  And also according to you and your opinion you felt there should have been a special task team placed there to investigate the damage and the violence in the area.  Why - what was the reason  that they did not think of doing that?  I mean we're talking about your superiors.

WITNESS:   As I have explained

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: before I don't think I will give you a satisfactory answer here, because I only discover such things now, especially with the experience that I have now, but at that time I was just being instructed to do this and that and the other, and I will simply do that.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: This opinion that you have here is of fundamental importance to us, and it seems to me this should have been undertaken then, making us believe some of the things that have been mentioned before us, that in the police force, especially the superior officers they had some kind of strategy that they were using to destroy and confuse the black nations using IFP.  Thank you.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Just one last question, Mr Nxumalo.  One of the purposes of our work in this Commission is to try and see what lessons we can learn for the future so that we can make recommendations.  As a very much more experienced investigator what should we recommend, say, for example, about the carrying of the number of dockets that a detective should reasonably carry?

WITNESS:   It's very easy to answer that one, because even if there - there are many things that are being implicated here.  I have this belief that at least an investigating officer can conduct his work successfully if he is put in a position of handling at least not more than 20 cases, because you find out that one officer has more than 80 cases, and even if he is told to go and work he will go with three other colleagues to work with, and these other three other colleagues have their own cases, 80 respectively.  When you look into this  /you find

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: you find out that the officers definitely won't satisfy the community because we will have to try that if, for

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: instance, I am driving, everyone in the car should be satisfied that at least let's take one cases each, or two cases each per day.  That puts us in such a state that you get people attending more than 200 to 300 documents in one car, and you find out the officer are in one car and they cannot perform effectively.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER:  Just one last question.  Was there any difference between the number of cases black members would carry as opposed to white members?

WITNESS:   That I may not say explicitly clear.  It's difficult for me to answer the question, but at the time I did not see anything that will make me say this was the difference in the Riot Investigation at that time.  And also it's inevitable of me to say it does happen that you realise that amongst the black members there's more work allocated to them.  And on the other side, the white side, you find there's less work allocated to them.  And the answer you get related to that, you find they tell you that many cases - most cases are black cases.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: Mr Nxumalo, thank you very much for your evidence.  It seems to us from what you have said that to deal with these incidents, these deaths which arose from the Seven Day War, there should have been a large task team of senior, experienced detectives, who should have been appointed to investigate these incidents.  It should have been a co-ordinated investigation, with co-operation and participation from senior policemen at every level, and it should never have been left to constables like yourself, who were carrying a case load of eight dockets.  You  nevertheless attempted to investigate these cases to the best of your ability, and in retrospect it seems a great

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: pity that there were not more policemen of your integrity and ability around at the time.  So again we thank you for coming and telling us that story.

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: /HANNAH MONICA WITTENBERG

DANIEL JOHANNES MEYER: HANNAH MONICA WITTENBERG   (Sworn, States)