Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Sir, as a policeman and I put it to this Commission today, in the unfortunate position I surely could have said no, but my task as policeman and upholder of the then law of the country, I had to prevent and I say it now in retrospect, I had to prevent deeds of terrorism.
	Because as I am being maybe judged today of using barbaric or unorthodox to put it lightly, methods of interrogation, my sole purpose was to (a) take the weaponry which consisted of mostly SPM land mines, mini limpet mines, SPM limpet mines, mini limpet mines, handgrenades, AK47's and what all, from the freedom fighters that were going to use those weaponry to the public at large, not just military targets, and the public at large were the innocent people in Cape Town.
That was my sole objective.   If it was unorthodox, we have to think of it in the context of the time we were living in then.  My greatest fear at that stage and I hope the people here could see the predicament that I was in, if a SPM limpet mine had to be detonated in the Golden Acre at that stage of which we had information, that would have been catastrophic.
	Cape Town, thank God, did not have the terrorist or freedom fighter actions of a Bloed Street, Church Street, Magoo's Bar and one of those places.  As I've earlier said that Cape Town as a whole as a result of a pure deed of terrorism, there was only loss of one life, which attributed to a mine and handgrenade explosion and that was one unfortunate Black man.
	I am not trying to condone my method of operation, I am trying to convey to the Commission the circumstances under which I was working at that stage.

MR YENGENI: So in other words in terms of your understanding of the law, this method was sanctioned by the law.  It was something that was lawful.  By torturing people, using this method, you engaged in lawful activity as a policeman?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I was engaged in a lawful activity, using unlawful, unconstitutional methods, yes Sir.

MR YENGENI: Now, you said that there was Sergeant Bellingham in this group of people?  Who is Sergeant Bellingham?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Sergeant Bellingham was a member of the South African Police Security Branch who from time to time, came to Cape Town with members or with Black members of I understood it to be rehabilitated or the word was used, rehabilitated or askari policemen.
	I was led to understand that these had been cadres who had been trained, originally as terrorists and were then used by the South African Security Services.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did he come from?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: He came from Pretoria Sir and the name had been bantered around.  I would be naive to say that he did not come from the notorious Unit, called Vlakplaas.

MR YENGENI: If he did not come from Vlakplaas, then how was he able, why was he the one  who brought these askaris to Cape Town?  What was the link between him and these askaris?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I do not follow the question Sir.  He definitely came from Vlakplaas.  He was stationed at Vlakplaas.

MR YENGENI: Oh, okay.  Now, when you were arresting me, how many askaris did you bring down from Pretoria, from Vlakplaas?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I am unable to answer that question.  I didn't bring any askaris down from Vlakplaas.  The connection there was normally between, in actual fact I think it was always between Lieutenant Liebenberg and the Pretoria component.
	I am not even sure if there were askaris there that evening.  I know Bellingham was there, but not necessarily askaris.  I am standing under correction, if I can get more information on this, I may get more clarity on it.

MR YENGENI: Well, I think you must remember that there were many askaris when I was arrested, who were part of the operation and there was one tall, Black chap with a bald head called David.  He was very, very active.  Can you remember him?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I can remember on the occasions and then again for clarity in everybody's minds, the askaris were handled by a handler of which Sergeant Bellingham was one.  They rarely were seen in daytime.  They were contacted at different venues and I am trying to think, I have known an askari by the name of David, I am sure it is the same person I am thinking of.
	But at the time of your arrest, it does not come to mind that there were askaris.  I concede there may have been, but I can't honestly remember.

MR YENGENI: I expressly remember askaris and specifically David.  What would be their role in such an event?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Excuse me?

MR YENGENI: What would be their role, the askaris' role in such an event?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: The way I understood the task of the askaris were to move around in especially the then Black townships and considering that they had, as I understood it, undergone terrorist training, to identify terrorists.
	Gentlemen, I must - excuse, I am using it in the context of the time that I worked at the Terrorist Detection Unit, to identify them in the locations and where also.

MR YENGENI: Now, you are still a member of the police, yourself?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is correct, Sir.

MR YENGENI: And is Mr Bellingham still a member of the police?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Mr who?

MR YENGENI: Bellingham?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I have not seen Sergeant Bellingham in six years, if I am not mistaken Sir.  I am not aware, he was transferred back to the Transvaal and he actually came from the Transvaal.	I am not aware if he is still a member of the police.

MR YENGENI: Mr Liebenberg, your Commander, is he still a member of the police?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Until recently, I had a telephonic conversation with Mr Liebenberg on Friday past, I understand he is either in the process of being discharged medically unfit or he has already been discharged medically unfit.

MR YENGENI: You said in the morning, when I was asking you questions that you feel that you were used by your colleagues.  What did you mean by that?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I will surely not be the most popular person in the Police Force after this, but then I am not here to be the most popular person in the Police Force.
	It was my contention that the Security Branch were using me to do the dirty work and what my motivation, I tried to explain just now, could be patriotic to the then South Africa of the day, as much as I now realise that you gentlemen must have been just as patriotic to your country of birth.
	But whether I was under a false sense of bravado or for want of a better word, I was willing to go the extra mile irrespective of the consequences for my beliefs.
	I think this was latched onto by members of the South African Security Branch who then allowed me to do this and by so doing, not dirtying or bloodying their own hands as regular members of the Security Force, for security reasons.

CHAIRPERSON: What you are saying is that, when you say that you were used by the Security Forces, your superiors, you weren't exactly a reluctant recruit?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Participant?

CHAIRPERSON: Participant?  Because your own beliefs such as those that you had, convinced you that you were doing the right thing?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: No, Sir.  Absolutely Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: But because you were so thorough in your job, you  found that you were required to do more than you would have done on your own?