Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-23

ADV POTGIETER: You were saying that you were on your way home.  Were you alone?

JACOB MOTSAU: I was going home, I was from work, but I passed somewhere. I used to say somewhere with my family in the afternoon.

ADV POTGIETER: Do I understand you correctly, there was nobody else with you when you were shot, you were on your own.

JACOB MOTSAU: I was alone, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Now this Bennet Matshaba that you referred to, what does he do, what kind of work?

JACOB MOTSAU: He is a policeman, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Where, in Orkney?

JACOB MOTSAU: Yes, Sir.

JACOB MOTSAU: Is he still a policeman there?

JACOB MOTSAU: He is still a policeman, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: He was one of the persons that shot you.  Do you know who was with him, who else was involved?

JACOB MOTSAU: I heard him saying this is Switch, because my football name is Switch, because I was popular with that name when I was playing football.

ADV POTGIETER: Was he with other policemen when he shot you?

JACOB MOTSAU: I saw, it seems there were two people in the yard, but there were not many people.

ADV POTGIETER: And you were shot twice. Is that correct?

JACOB MOTSAU: I was shot twice, Sir, on the spinal chord and then just under my arm-pit and then I could even feel it on my chest.  The doctor's report says it is still where it was.
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ADV POTGIETER: Were you shot from behind?

JACOB MOTSAU: Yes, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I see that you did institute a claim against the State, is it against Matshaba or against the Minister of Safety and Security, or Law and Order, as he was called at that stage.

JACOB MOTSAU: I was claiming against Matshaba, Sir, because that is the one I saw shooting me.

ADV POTGIETER: And you say you don't know what happened to that claim, although you saw an attorney.

JACOB MOTSAU: Up to now I don't know what is happening about that case.

ADV POTGIETER: Haven't you heard from this attorney?

JACOB MOTSAU: Can you repeat the question, Sir?

ADV POTGIETER: When last have you had contact with the attorney that was doing the claim for you, when last did you hear from that person?

JACOB MOTSAU: I last saw him in court in 1987, Sir, on the 14th of January.  Thereafter, when I came back from prison, I went to South African Council of Churches.  Then they said it doesn't help because they cannot help me and then the days have expired.

ADV POTGIETER: Just to get clarity on that issue.  Before you were charged criminally yourself, you went to see an attorney, is that correct, to institute a claim for you against Matshaba?

JACOB MOTSAU: I made a civil claim first, whilst I was still in the hospital I made a case.  When they realised that I am discharged and I am working, then they heard that I made a civil claim.  Then they made a case against me, long before I made my own case.  The magistrate said to them he heard
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that, he knows that I have made a civil claim, but he has convicted me for two years, then the civil case will see it thereafter.

ADV POTGIETER: For what charge did he convict you and sentence you to two years?

JACOB MOTSAU: They were saying I was the leader of the comrades on that day and that I was leading the 500 people, five metres away from leading a group of 500 people.

ADV POTGIETER: Is that all that they told you?

JACOB MOTSAU: That is the thing which has made them to arrest and convict me for two years.

ADV POTGIETER: I just want to try and finally clarify this issue of your claim. If the Commission wants to find out what has happened to the civil claim of yours, where should we go to, who should we contact?

JACOB MOTSAU: My home address is the one which I have written on my written statement, I am still staying in Kanana at the above-mentioned address.  I am not a person who goes a distance away from home.

ADV POTGIETER: If we want to find out from the person or persons who were handling your claim, what has happened, who should we go to, who should we contact?  Is it a firm of attorneys or who is it?

JACOB MOTSAU: This Cyril Silent, since I came back from court, I don't know where he is.  Even up to now I don't know where he is staying and I even gave up because I was wasting my money looking for him.

ADV POTGIETER: I think we can follow that up. I just want to also just round off the shooting incident itself. Before you were shot, were you given any warnings or did this Matshaba say anything to you?
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JACOB MOTSAU: He didn't give me a warning and we were not, I was not cross with him or him with me.

ADV POTGIETER: After you were shot, you actually fell down, I believe.  You couldn't move any further. Is that correct?

JACOB MOTSAU: When I was shot I was not able to wake up until my brother came to pick me up, to take me to the taxi.

ADV POTGIETER: There was no attempt to arrest you there on the scene, Matshaba didn't come and try to arrest you after you fell down and you were lying in the street.

JACOB MOTSAU: He was not trying to arrest me, but he was threatening my brother.  When my brother came to pick me up he said he must leave me there otherwise he will shoot me.

ADV POTGIETER: Just finally, Mr Motsau, are you still receiving any medical attention, any medical treatment, presently?

JACOB MOTSAU: I am going to the government doctor at Kanane and at other times I go to Sebong Hospital.

ADV POTGIETER: You have been receiving medical attention from 1986, from the time when you were shot, right up to the present?

JACOB MOTSAU: After I was injured, I was a cripple and I was living under the medical attention all the time.

ADV POTGIETER: Than kyou, Mr Motsau. I will hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you, Mr Motsau.

DR RANDERA: Mr Motsau,  I have got two questions. You say that when you were charged and sentenced they accused you of being a leader of the comrades.  Were you in fact a leader of the comrades, were you involved in any political organisation, did you hold any position in Kanane township at the time?
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JACOB MOTSAU: I was nothing in politics, and I was working. It was a Satuday, I came back from work.  When I came back from the hospital in 1989, I said it is better that I join the ANC.

DR RANDERA: Where did you work at the time?

JACOB MOTSAU: I was working at Cash & Carry as a caddy.

DR RANDERA: I just want to understand again this sentencing that took place.  How long after the shooting was the court case?

JACOB MOTSAU: They took me in April, I was shot in April and then in January, on the 14th, 1987, I was convicted in court.

DR RANDERA: Let me understand again, how did you manage as someone who was disabled and paralysed, both your legs are paralysed, in prison for that time?  Were there any special services provided for you as a disabled person?

JACOB MOTSAU: There was no special attention in prison. I was just like one of the other prisoners and they were even saying if I don't work or if I don't clean, they are not going to give me food.  Then I said to them I will tell my relatives to bring me food or I will go and tell my lawyer about the situation.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Prof Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Mr Motsau, only two short questions.  I thought I heard you say that you do not have a wheelchair of your own.  You couldn't afford that. Is that true, is the wheelchair you are using not your own, do you still need one?

JACOB MOTSAU: This wheelchair is broken.  Since I bought in 1989 it is six years that I have been using it. It is now
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broken. I don't have money to buy another one. My subsistence allowance is too little.