Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-15

MR SMITH: You went back to your house the following morning?  Did you find any of the policemen there?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: I saw the policemen myself and I found one of them in the Caspar, and they said I must not touch anything in the house because the police are coming for finger prints. They said that only.
 I would request that if there maybe something that I left out, could you please remind me about it?

MR SMITH: Do you recall one of the police handing you a note and calling on you to.......(intervention)

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: No not in the house, at SANLAM.  When I came in my house, I stayed for a short period and one of the policemen said to me, "I'm going to look around", and he went out and he patrolled the place and then he came in and gave me a note and said I must go to the SANLAM building and he wrote a name.

MR SMITH: He also gave you the name of a person that you should go and see at SANLAM?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes.  I went there to SANLAM and I was being taken off by Sookie, the owner of the car.  When we reached SANLAM, I took this piece of paper to the white man who was on safari, I gave him the note to find out who it was that I was referred to.  He took it and took me into one of the offices.  The room was full of policemen wearing police safaris.  All of them.  I was scared.  I was made to sit down, this white man with a very big face with a moustache,he was called Strijdom from the murder and robbery squad.  He said to me "Mrs Hashe, do you know that your
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husband was found at Veeplaas, burned.  We could only identify him from his lower parts, from the waist downwards.
 I said, nothing of that nature, there is nothing of that kind.  He said to me, "What do you expect me to say?"  I said to him, "He is in your cells."  He argued with me, he said, "I'm telling you the truth, they were burned, he's note here." He said, "This happened to many people". I said, "I am not going to really wait for this, I am losing patience".  He said," Look at me, I'm not Hashe". You know I didn't mind anything about him, I didn't care.  He said to me, "Do you know that as you are here in person, there is nothing that I can do with you."  I said to him, "I'm asking you one thing", you know we are not just talking, we are really arguing, I asked him one thing, "Can you please take me to the mortuary where you say my husband is, because you mentioned that he was at the mortuary?" I told him I don't want to go alone, I want to go with him because he knows that he is dead.  He pushed me and he said, "This one I cannot stand!"  
 I was taken by Vera from the Liquor Squad to this room to take my finger prints, on my way out, some of the police stepped in front of me in the long passage. I only saw him because he pointed me out to the other policeman.  This room that I was taken to was full of whites, you know, these heavily built whites.  They were wearing suits, beautiful. After having been called by Mr Gaba, I was made to sit down.  They said to me, "Do you know English?" I said "No, I cannot speak English properly but I understand.  I was made to sit down and then they called someone to interpret, because they were really prepared to talk.

MR SMITH: Did they question you about your husband?
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ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes they asked me questions about my husband and they said they know him, because I told them that they know him best, because I wasn't feeling very well, I wasn't myself.  I was really hurt. I wanted them to realise, I wanted them to see that I am hurt.
 They went on interrogating.  They asked me about this group of children they arrested at my house.  I told them the weapons they got in my house, I didn't see them, you know they were arrows sharpened.

MR SMITH: Were you detained after this interrogation?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes. there was a white person, I was handed over to him and he took me to Bakens Bridge. I was detained in Bakens Bridge.

MR SMITH: Mr Silas and Nkanunu consulted with you and helped you to arrange bail?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: No he only came at Royal.  At this place there were lots and lots of people, drinking spirits and  eating bread.  But you know I survived among these people. I think it was on a Saturday and then Monday we went to Court.  On Monday while we were in the Court, all the people who were arrested at my place were also in.  We arrived at New Brighton, we were not even put into a decent room, we were all thrown into a cell until the time for the court arrived.  Then they took as to Royal and we were detained there where I sat a whole month.  Mr Nkanuna came to see me.

MR SMITH: Did anyone, whether they be policemen or people who you met in prison, speak to you at all about the whereabouts of your husband, at any time during your custody?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Now when I was still inside, nobody came to me. Mr Nkanunu arrived, took only the statement and he left.
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Okate O'Orgen arrived from Jo'burg with regard to my husband's case.  She was representing me.  After a month ...(intervention)

MR SMITH: Your case was also taken to the Supreme Court by way of an application by attorney Priscilla Jana, is that correct?   Can you comment on that application?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: I was told, you know in that court, we arrived the three of us, with Mrs Godolozi, we would get in, we'd stand up, nobody would sit down.  And they would keep on saying, "We don't know them"  Even Okate O'Orgen was not even recognised.  They would say, "We don't know them", then we vacated the court.  We didn't only go once, we went a second time, Kate had gathered a lot of information this time, I must tell you, not even at one stage did we sit in the court, we always stood.  There was information that we got, a boy Mr Godolozi, this child really created, he said they saw exactly what happened.  A very heavy white man, Gakoli had files in the hand and the policeman was also having something in his hands.  Now Mrs Gatebe indicated, she asked me if she could take us to that child to tell us the truth.  This child really told us everything that happened and we said, "Can you really testify?".  This child said yes.

MR SMITH: Do you recall that there was a court case during August 1988 where the whole issue of the disappearance of your husband and they talked, and Mr Godolozi and Galela were raised?  Do you recall a court application, evidence being given in court during August 1988, where this whole issue of your husband and that of Mr Galela and Mr Godolozi were discussed?  Now I'm going to put to you the of what Mrs, you might not remember their particular names, a
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certain Mr Victor Nkosi Sizane, gave evidence to the effect that he saw all three at the Alexandria police station under oath in court?  Do you recall that.  Were you present when this evidence was given?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes I was there.

MR SMITH: Mr Nkoseni Philemon Nganga also gave evidence in court.

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes I know. Is it Nkoseni Nganga?

MR SMITH: Is he at Alexandria.

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes.

MR SMITH: Are you aware of the fact that during the trial of a certain Mr Eugene de Kock, the issue of the disappearance of your husband also came up at that trial?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes.

MR SMITH: A certain Mr Joe Mamisela gave evidence implicating the Vlakplaas Unit in the disappearance of your husband? Did you become aware of that?

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: Yes.

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: And were you informed by your attorney Mrs Jana that she is following that up and it's being investigated further.