Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: We left and drove towards Mkuzi, where we refilled our car.   At that time, Mbusa Mbambo was driving the time because I was tired and then I slept.   We drove to Skwaneni, because we had to report to Mrs Mbuyazi as to how our operation went.   I was sleeping in the car and I woke up at the time when we arrived at the police station, because we had to enter the phone call to phone to the Makwena premises to find out whether the person we shot at, to ascertain whether he was killed, to ascertain whether Mr Makwena (sic) has already died, and then we continued to Mrs Mbuyazi's - I'm sorry, I probably said to confirm that Mr Thalede have already died.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And after you made this phone call, what happened?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: They confirmed the death of Mr Thalede and we went off to Mrs Mbuyazi and informed her that we did carried out the operation.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: When you... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that - sorry, may I interpose, Mr Oosthuizen... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Certainly, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...are you saying that when you got back you went to the police station, you phoned Nelspruit to confirm Mr Thalede's death and it was confirmed, and then it was only then that you went to Mrs Mbuyazi, after you had ascertained and confirmed Mr Thalede's death?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: It is not your evidence that your first port of call from Nelspruit was Mrs Mbuyazi?

INTERPRETER: Excuse me, I didn't get that?

CHAIRPERSON: It is not your evidence that your first port of call after Nelspruit was Mrs Mbuyazi?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Chair, if I might just come in here?   I've asked the applicant if his first stop was indeed at Mrs Mbuyazi and he said, no, his first stop was at the police station... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: ...so he actually corrected me.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   So I'm just trying to get his evidence, that his first port of call was not Mrs Mbuyazi, but the police station... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Indeed so, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...where Mr Mbambo worked.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Indeed so, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: And it was at that police station where a confirmation was made with Nelspruit about Mr Thalede's death.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And that subsequent to that confirmation, they then drove to Mrs Mbuyazi to give a report, which was a firm report, because they had already confirmed Thalede's death even before going to Mrs Mbuyazi.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: That's quite correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: I wanted to understand that aspect of evidence correctly.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you inform the committee, what was Mrs Mbuyazi's reaction when you informed her about the mission that was accomplished?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: She was very pleased, she shaked hands with us and hugged us, and said that first thing in the morning she will call Ulundi to report the incident.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Why would she report to Ulundi, what is so important at Ulundi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Because that's where the leadership of the ANC were, or they were predominantly there in Ulundi.

MR LAX: Sorry, you said ANC, you mean IFP?

INTERPRETER: Yes, of course.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And how long after this incident were you... (intervention).

MR LAX: Speaker's mike.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Mr Oosthuizen, I have been begged by our logistics officers that we must kindly take a short adjournment at six o'clock... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Certainly, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...to give, in particular the translators just an opportunity to have some fresh air.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Certainly.   I haven't got objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we then take that very short adjournment for about five minutes?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Definitely, I haven't got any objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: (still under oath)

MR OOSTHUIZEN: (cont)
	Mr Ngxongo, you testified that you gave the instructions or the confirmation that Mr Thalede was killed to Mrs Mbuyazi, she was extremely happy, and tell us what happened after that, how long after this were you arrested by the South African Police?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: After giving the full report to Mrs Mbuyazi, I was supposed to continue to Durban and Mr Mbambo was supposed to remain behind, because that's where he was stationed, and on that first year, it ended and nothing happened until I was arrested in January 1994.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell us, were you aware of any other persons, except for Mr Thalede that was killed or injured because of those acts committed by yourself and Mr Mbambo and members of the hit squad, any other one injured?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I only heard about that after I was charged for murder, two attempted murders, but at the time of the incident, I didn't see anyone who was shot at or injured.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And you were sentenced on this specific case on the 15th of January '97, is that correct?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: During your criminal trial, what was your plea, did you plead guilty or not guilty on the said charges?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I pleaded guilty.   I pleaded guilty to all the charges.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And you were sentenced to 12 years imprisonment, is that right?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Mr Ngxongo, can you please tell us, your application form for the amnesty application, who completed that?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I did complete it, I personally completed it.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Do you want to reply on the way that you completed it, is it truthful completed or is there any false information contained in it?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: There are some parts of which is not true.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Chair, may I refer the applicant to his application form, specifically page No 2, paragraph 9.4?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that's paginated No 3.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: As the committee pleases.   Can you have a look at paragraph 9.4, Mr Ngxongo?   It is asked there that you must give a brief description of the natures and particulars and you've stated something completely different than what you are telling the committee today, is that correct?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Now, can you give an explanation why your evidence today and the way that you've completed the application form actually contradicts each other and is very far apart from each other?