Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

ADV POTGIETER: No - no you standing entirely on end of Tape 3, side A ... - only with pleasure Mr Van Zyl.  I suppose it's an identical one to the one that I got.

ADV VAN ZYL: Ja it is.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Nr 5.

ADV POTGIETER: It's photograph nr 5 I am told for the record.

MR STERRENBERG: Your Worship there could have been people standing behind the photographer that I had been speaking to.

ADV POTGIETER: Ja but [intervention]

UNKNOWN: Order - order please.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you sir.

UNKNOWN: Please let the witness testify in circumstances where he feels free to do so - thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: Ja I - no I perfectly agree with you Superintendent that there could have been people behind the photographer but the fact is that the photographer would have been between yourself and anybody else who were on the scene I mean you looking directly at the camera.

MR STERRENBERG: It's a possibility sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You must have seen the photographer.

MR STERRENBERG: It is possible but as I say I was not aware of him there at that time sir and I definitely wasn't posing for the photograph.

ADV POTGIETER: Is that the only comment that you want to make about this [indistinct]

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Any other further contributions - thank you Superintendent Sterrenberg.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you sir.

ADV VAN ZYL: Mr Chairman I wonder if you will allow me to ask three questions in order to clear up a few things that has come up during the examination by the panel.  I do not know whether this is the procedure.

UNKNOWN: We have not had that sort of procedure but I cannot see that I should not allow you to do so.

ADV VAN ZYL: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Sterrenberg you were questioned at length about the type of shot  that you were issued with that day.

<UNKNOWN>: Can the speaker speak closer to the mike.

ADV VAN ZYL: Now according to your information.

UNKNOWN: Can you speak closer into the mike because  the interpreters are not able to hear.

ADV VAN ZYL: I will repeat the question then.  Mr Sterrenberg you were questioned at length as to the type of shot that you had in your shotgun that day.  Can you tell the Commission what did you expect - what did the policeman with you expect the assailants to have been armed with.

MR STERRENBERG: With weapons stronger than that AK47's or a similar type of weapon.

ADV VAN ZYL: If you for instance issued with birdshot and the assailants should have decided to carry out an attack against you - would that have been of any use to you in the circumstances?

MR STERRENBERG: No sir it would have been pointless using that unless you were standing right up against the person.

ADV VAN ZYL: You've indicated in your statement that you originally made that  the AK47 with which the person was armed that you had fired shots at - that you had checked those magazines on that AK47 is that correct.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV VAN ZYL: And did you discover whether any rounds were missing from those three magazines.

MR STERRENBERG: If I recall correctly one magazine was full and two were empty or vice versa if I can just read my statement sir I will be able to tell you.  Ja two of the magazines were empty and one contained 30 rounds of ammunition.

ADV VAN ZYL: Now if one presume for the moment for purposes of this question that all three is - all three these magazines were full before this person started firing his AK47 how many rounds would two empty magazines represent.

MR STERRENBERG: I am telling you that they were both full - it would have been 60 rounds that had been fired.

ADV VAN ZYL: Thank you Mr Chairman - I appreciate the opportunity.

UNKNOWN: Thank you advocate Van Zyl - Superintendent you excused.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you sir.

ADV VAN ZYL: Mr Chairman is Mr Sterrenberg excused from the hearing altogether - he may go home?

UNKNOWN: I have always used a lawyers reply to that question by saying for the moment he is excused should any other issues arrised that need him to be recalled - he should await being recalled.

ADV VAN ZYL: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: That remains the position then - you are excused for the moment.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you.