Human Rights Violation Hearings — Venda — 1996-10-04

ENNIE MUNYAI: In 1980, whilst I was at work at Nyani hospital, most of the people don't know, but it is commonly known as Ntume, whilst I was working there, on the third week three police arrived.
 When they arrived they asked several questions on Ennie Munyai.  Some people came to the place where I was working and called me.  I told them to call the people who were looking for me and when they arrived, I realised that they were policemen.  
 They were in plain clothes, they were in private clothes.  They said they wanted to talk to me and I said how do you think you can talk to me in such a busy place, they said yes, we are going to talk to you right away, here.
 And my colleagues left.  They went out.  I was left with them, just at Ntume.  They told me that your, they wanted to know where my son was and I asked them as to who 
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are you referring to and they said we are referring to Moses Munyai.  
 I said Moses Munyai normally goes and come back and they asked me as to where does he go and I said, look he does have some relatives.  Sometimes he goes to Vleifontein, sometimes to Krugersdorp where his sister was or at (indistinct) at my cousin and elsewhere.
 They said to me do you perhaps know that you gave money to Moses Munyai and I asked them money for what and they said, you gave him money just to go everywhere to destroy people's property.  And I said no, I only gave him money for schooling because he was in standard ten.
 Just after that, do you think that I gave him money to leave and they said, yes.  And I asked them to go where and they said, you are the only person who knows.  And I said, no I don't know anything.  I only know that if he leaves, he comes back.
 They were writing down whatever I was saying.  And they said do you know what, such kind of a child, we called him or referred to him as a gorilla.  I said, am I the mother to a gorilla, are you saying my son is a gorilla?  Is he a gorilla, is my son a gorilla?  Is he no longer called Moses?  What kind of a gorilla, who is that gorilla?
 They wrote down and they finished writing.  After that they said we will be coming back.   I said are you through, they said yes, they are through.  I said, okay, fine.  They went.  That was eight o'clock then, they disappeared, they disappeared for good and I thought maybe that was the end of it.
 It was not the end.  They had to come back around eight o'clock on the third week.  They were three then.  They said VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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yes, we are back.  You have to tell us, tell us the truth and I said I don't have any other truth that I can tell you.
 If that child that you are referring to, you want him, go and search for him, I cannot search for him.  What are you doing because wherever he might be, he might be worried or he is troubled.
 And they said you told me a lot of stories about the fact that if he comes back, he will be shooting at you.  I said no.  While I appreciate that, I appreciate that and then I'll leave this country.
 There is no problem at all regarding him.  He said why do you say this so freely as if you are not feeling any pain?  I said okay, I am feeling pain for you are really paining me about my son, because I know that my son is a scholar and he was in standard ten and I was the one who was educating him.
 It went on and on like that, while they were writing, they disappeared again.  They disappeared again.  In 1981 when they came back, they came up with stories and said you, your gorilla has destroyed.  And I asked them where and they said at Sebasa and I asked them if they had seen him?
 Have you seen him?  They said you cannot see a gorilla he just shrugged and left.  I said, well, why do you bring all this to me, why don't you arrest him?  Why didn't you arrest my son?
 Why didn't you arrest my son and put him in a cell and interrogate him as to why he was shooting at the police station or bombing the police station in 1981?  It went on like that, it went on like that, it went on like that, it went on like that.  Then three men came again at 1984.
 One of them is called Ramoswa, because I didn't know 
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him very well.  I looked at him clearly as he was coming where I was working and they said to me which one is your main office, I referred them to my main office.
 Which belonged to Mr Machawo in our main office, Matewa and I indicated them, I gestured to them and said, there it is and they said, well let's go and I said are you going with me and they said yes.  I left with them and we knocked at the office and we got the old man who was seated there in his seat and we entered with the three men and they said to Mr Machawo, they were just gesturing using his eye, they said, do you know us?
 Do you know us?  The old man said no, I do not know you.  They said don't you know anybody here, he said no I do not know you.  They said we are coming here for this old woman, we want to sit with her for a while and the old man said to  one colleague of his, called Boal, to bring some books from his office so that the people should be accommodated there.
 There are some foreigners.  I went straight to that office, a very hidden office.  When I got into the office, they sat down, looked at me.  They looked at me without saying anything, not doing anything.  And I looked at them as well.
 Thereafter they said is Moses your son and I said yes.  They said is he your right child, I said yes.  They said (indistinct), your son is late, he is dead, that was in 1984 and I asked them are you saying he is dead and they said, right now when you leave here, you tell your senior and you can see how to settle this matter and four o'clock we are coming to take you.
 We are taking you to Pietersburg.  We just left the 
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(indistinct).  When they left and when I also left, I went to my senior.  When I explained to them, they said you're better get on the way now.  I got on the way on foot.
 I didn't even know where I was going.  As I was walking I thought of Ramasiara school, I thought of my other child, Yvonne, who was then in standard eight.  
 On arrival I realised that the small kids were playing.  Some of them were in classes playing.  I was accommodated by one mistress who received me.  When she came to me, she said have you come to us today and I said yes.
 Could I please have Yvonne.  The mistress said, I don't know as to whether she had realised then, she just shed tears then and I asked her why she was doing that and I said, please may I have Yvonne.  If you don't want Yvonne coming, please call the principal, I want to address this to the principal.
 The mistress was just distressed and tired and by then I was also so tired, I was terribly tired.  When the principal was called, on his arrival he asked me to go to the office.  When I went to the office, he was just perplexed, he didn't even know what to say or do.
 He said, man, but he couldn't, I don't know what to do.  I said to him please call Yvonne for me, I want to talk to her.  So he went to the class, he called Yvonne.  When Yvonne came, she said Mama, have you come, what's wrong.  I said keep quiet, I said Yvonne, your brother is dead, Moses Munyai.
 Yvonne we are leaving now.  Then we left.  When we had gone out the principal called the other teacher and asked him to take us back to where we were coming from home.  The other teacher took his van, we got into the van and went 
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home.
 And when we arrived home, Yvonne said Mama now, what are we doing and I said please I want to send you my daughter.  You must go to Vleifontein, go and call the aunt now.  Go and call the cousin.  Mabel I just don't know how to tell, she is just like a sickly person, she is depressed.  She can cry now till late in the night and even sunrise.  I just didn't know what to do with her.  She was working at (indistinct)
 But then I thought over this matter and I said I'll be bold.  I found Wone who was just above there and saw me and said, please come here because he knew how to speak Venda.
 On arrival I addressed, I asked for my daughter and I explain about the matter and Mabel was called.  When Mabel arrived, just when she was told, Mabel fell, she just fell down.
 The Indians came to help, just to assist her and they left with her, since they knew where she was staying, they put her there and I left with Aneli who then escorted me to the gate.
 When I returned from (indistinct) I thought of my younger sister, the one who is sitting here and my other sister who was working at Mbewo.   When I arrived there, I realised that my sister was gone then.  She had just left then and now how am I going to talk to this one?
 I merely said okay, phone and I said don't worry, I'll use the phone at home.  I said to the other daughter Yvonne, please call your brother.  When she was calling the brother, he was at Tsandma but then he was permanently staying in Folowo there, he had just gone to Tsandama on a kind of work, since he is he farmer or somebody dealing with 
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agriculture.
 He was not there, when he came back he got the explanation that we were looking for him, we were looking for him at home, referring to this one.
 After that sometimes in the evening, around six o'clock this one was coming back.  On arrival, the people from Vleifontein were already there, the aunt and the cousin and Yvonne as well.
 Thereafter the aunt whilst he was still there, she phoned (indistinct) and we were told that we don't have a helper.  These people who were brothers to my husband arrived and wanted to know as to what was happening.  It hen explained.
 The one who was working at (indistinct), driving the ambulance, I explained to this person and said okay, fine.  The aunt to this one said okay, fine let's pray then we prayed.  After finishing praying, the van was just outside.
 There was no garage and people were stealing.  I thought of the troubles that I was undergoing.  I left with these people, with my younger sister and my elder sister and this one and Yvonne, together with myself and a cousin.
 We were seven.  This one left on his aunt's van, it was the four of them and we were on the VM, the black one.  We were taken there right at four o'clock at dawn.