Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

WITNESS:   Five of them.  Only one is not at school. What is he doing?   ---   He is not doing anything.  He can't find a job.  He left school at standard 5.

PROF MAGWAZA:  And the one who was born in 1974?

WITNESS:   He is in standard 6.

PROF MAGWAZA:  The one who was born in 1976?

WITNESS:   He is also in standard 6.  They are in one class.  The one who was born in 1980 is in standard 4 and the one who was born in 1982 is also in standard 4, and the one who was born in 1988 is in standard 2.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I'm not, because I'm sick.

PROF MAGWAZA:  What is the problem with your health?

WITNESS:   I have asthma and operation.  I was operated because I was sick.

PROF MAGWAZA:  When was this?

WITNESS:   In 1985.

PROF MAGWAZA:  In your statement you mentioned that your husband died in 1993 and your son died in 1992.  I would like you to relate to us what happened.  Just give us the picture of what happened.

WITNESS:   Siphiwe was a girl, not a boy.  She left home to a wedding - to her cousin's wedding - and then they came there and burnt the house.  I can't tell you what happened, because she wasn't with me.  I only heard that they were burnt at Nseleni and my husband went there and he found out they were taken a mortuary.  When he asked people around there, they said they didn't know.  They only heard a loud noise and they heard people screaming and, when neighbours went and checked, they saw the house was on fire.  They didn't know what happened.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Let's stick on that one, when your daughter was killed.

WITNESS:   This was the only house which was burnt at Nseleni that time.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Was it political or was it something - clash between your family?

WITNESS:   I can't tell that, because I wasn't there.

PROF MAGWAZA:  At Nseleni were there political conflicts according to your knowledge?

WITNESS:   I can't tell that.  Nseleni is the location.  I don't know whether they have IFP people or ANC people, because I was staying there at that time.

PROF MAGWAZA:  What else did you receive, like information?

WITNESS:  I can't tell you, but what I heard is that other people were saying it was politically-motivated and other people said it was a clash between the person who was getting married and someone else.

PROF MAGWAZA:  After your daughter had been killed, was there any case?

WITNESS:   They did report the matter to the police, but there was no case.  We were never called.

PROF MAGWAZA:  At which police station did you report this matter?

WITNESS:   At Nseleni Police Station.

PROF MAGWAZA:  You reported the case and nothing happened afterwards?

WITNESS:   Yes, the police from Nseleni didn't come back to us and call us.

PROF MAGWAZA:  And did your husband go back to them?

WITNESS:   Yes, he did, but there was no investigation.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Are there people whom you know who saw this thing happening when the house was burnt?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't get any witnesses, because even when my husband went there to ask people what happened, they said no, they didn't know.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Your daughter's cousin, was she politically active or what?

WITNESS:   No, she was just working.

PROF MAGWAZA:  I'm asking about this cousin of your daughter, who was getting married.  Was she politically active?

WITNESS:   I only heard that she was ANC - she was an ANC member and my daughter as well was an ANC member.

PROF MAGWAZA:  When other people were telling you that it might happen that they were killed because of politics, did they mention something as to why and how?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't.  I never used to ask them.  My husband was the one who was asking the people.  I never used to ask the people who were talking about this.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Let's can back.  Can you please relate to us about your husband's death.

WITNESS:   My husband was at home.  At about 3 o'clock people came and they were wearing balaclavas.  They told me to hide and I asked them why should I hide.  I went to the kitchen and I saw them stabbing my husband.  When I came out, they told me that, "Hide.  Why are you watching?", and they stabbed my husband until he died.  I ran out.  I went to a shop called Ebugele.  I told a white man who is working there -I told him to call the police.  The police came late at night and they fetched his body.  When we arrived there with the police we looked for his body and we found his body at the nearby bush and they took his body.  I went with the police to Mbonambi Police Station.  I gave the statement to the police as to how they killed my husband.  They came back to destroy my house.  They took my furniture, money.  They took my refrigerator.  They took everything - the clothes.

PROF MAGWAZA:  When all these things were happening, was your husband a member of any organization?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was a member of ANC.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Was he working?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't working.  He was self-employed.  He was selling vegetables.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Let's go back to these people who stabbed your husband in front of you.  You said they were wearing balaclavas.

WITNESS:   Yes, they were.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Please take your time.  We'll only continue when you feel much better.

WITNESS:   Yes.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Did you happen to know afterwards who killed your husband?

WITNESS:   No, I never heard.  Even if people knew about it, people were scared to tell.  People were scared to reveal names, because they were afraid that they would be killed.  Because if you happen to open your mouth you are going to be killed.  I can't tell you who did this, really.

PROF MAGWAZA:  You don't even suspect who killed your husband or what organization they were affiliated with?

WITNESS:   No, I can't because after that boys came to my house and they grabbed me and they said to me, "You did well by not telling the police who we were or who we are", and then I asked them, "What do you mean?"  They said, "We meant exactly that".  I knew those boys.   I knew all of them, but they are now dead.

PROF MAGWAZA:  What killed them?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  I think it's their job - what they were going around doing.

PROF MAGWAZA:  According to your statement, your husband was killed at about 3pm, but you said the police came late at night?

WITNESS:   Yes, the police came very late at night.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Was there any case?

WITNESS:   No, there wasn't any case.

PROF MAGWAZA:  What happened?

WITNESS:   Nothing happened, because when the police investigated this matter they didn't find the boys.

PROF MAGWAZA:  The police who were responsible for this case, do you know them?

WITNESS:   It was Umthembu, but the one that I gave statement to was Mchunu from Mbonambi Police Station and that was the end of the story.  They didn't even give me the number of the case.

PROF MAGWAZA:  When they were stabbing your husband, were you the only one?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was the only one.  There was no kids around.  I was the only witness, because my sons were not at home.  They went to see the match - soccer match.

PROF MAGWAZA:  How did this affect your life?

WITNESS:   I got ill.  That's how I lost weight and my heart is still sad.  When I look at my kids hungry I cry.  When they come from school they cry for food and I can't give them food, and when my husband was still alive he could support my children.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Do you attend any hospital for medication?

WITNESS:   No, I don't, because I don't have money.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Except asthma and operation, what else do you have?

WITNESS:   I'll tell you, my whole body is sick.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Are you receiving any pension?

WITNESS:   No, I'm not.

PROF MAGWAZA:  How do you support yourself?

WITNESS:   Nothing.

PROF MAGWAZA:  How do you support yourself as to food?  Who is buying food?