Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-13

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: With respect Honourable Chair, there was many people around and I don't have clear recollection of a lot of people.

MR VAN WYK: Mr Singaram, this is not a trick question, that is the man that was armed with the AK47.

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did not see him sir.

MR VAN WYK: Did you see anybody from that corner of King George and Plein Street that's been one of the ANC guards firing with an AK47?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did not.

MR VAN WYK: Do you know the rife AK47?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I do.

MR VAN WYK: Did you hear anybody firing with an AK47 at the corners of King George and Plein Street that morning whilst you were approaching the corner or whilst you were at the corner?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I heard a lot of gunfire and I just heard general fire, I was in a confused state and I the distinct fire I did not hear.

MR VAN WYK: Why I'm asking this is that I get the impression that you know about the shots being fired from the crowd is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: At that point in time it appeared to me so.

MR VAN WYK: You distinctly heard those shots is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I heard gunfire that's correct.

MR VAN WYK: Did you distinctly hear the automatic gunfire in your immediate vicinity Mr Singaram?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: All I can recollect, it was general fire, I cannot be very precise on that.

MR VAN WYK: Can I accept your answer to be that there was general fire in your immediate vicinity?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: On that day there was lots of fire within my vicinity and from surrounding.

MR VAN WYK: You have also been trained to use an AK47 is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so.

MR VAN WYK: And you know the distinct sound it makes, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I was trained in '77 and subsequently I had been in Angola but on a quiet night, isolated fire I could distinguish but in those circumstances I wasn't.

MR VAN WYK: But you could still distinguish between single shots and automatic fire, would you agree with that?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so.

MR VAN WYK: And at your immediate vicinity at the corners of King George and Plein Street were there any automatic fire?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: All I can recollect is a general fire, I cannot be precise.

MR VAN WYK: Do I then understand you correctly you cannot assist the Committee in saying whether the shots that had been fired from the corner or towards the corner?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Sir I did not say that, I said there were shots all around me, general fire and I could not be precise, unfortunately.

MR VAN WYK: Do you know where Mr Kruser was at the stage when you were at the corner of King George and Plein Street on the pavement?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: When he gave the - initially Mr Kruser was around near the chemist but during the time of firing, when he gave the command repel, he was quite close to me when I was at the corner.

MR VAN WYK: Do I understand you correctly, the first shots you heard whilst you were in front of the chemist?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so.

MR VAN WYK: And those shots were single shots is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I cannot be precise but there were some shots coming from the area of King George.

MR VAN WYK: Well let's get this clear - those shots the first shots that you heard whilst being in front of the chemist were not automatic fire, would you agree with that?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I cannot be precise.

MR VAN WYK: Would you agree that it sounded like pistol fire?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I want to reiterate that the fire was general, at that point in time I couldn't distinguish between, I wasn't concentrating, I just hear fire.

MR VAN WYK: Do I understand you correctly, at this stage you cannot exclude that those first shots could have come from an AK47, is that what you're saying?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so.

MR VAN WYK: I would like to refresh your memory, sir,  because at the stage when you testified at the inquest your evidence was the following and it seems to me that your memory might have served you better at that stage and I'm referring you to page 3841 of the transcribed record and with the permission I would just like to read it to you.
	First question:  "Could you distinguish what type of arm was used?"  Now this was in the context of the first shots.
	Reply: "Not specific"
	Next question:  "Between a pistol, a shotgun and an automatic rifle, could you make that distinction?"
	Reply:  "Well I would be more proficient in the pistol and the automatic rifle but the shotgun I am not so used to but it was, sounded like pistol fire."
	Next question:  "Mr Singaram and do I understand you correctly at that stage you could exclude those shots coming from a shotgun, is that correct?"
	"I..." and then there's an intervention, the questioner proceeds:  "Those first shots that you heard?"
	Reply"  "Yes, it sounded to me very much pistol fire."
Do you still agree with that evidence?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Yes I do.

MR VAN WYK: It then proceeds:  "Would I - can I assume that you would also at that stage exclude automatic fire with an AK47?" and your reply was: "Yes".
	Now that is in contradiction with what you say today.  Could you clarify that please?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: You know what I must make clear is during that day there was lots of firing but I can distinguish between automatic fire and pistol fire at a certain stage but this - I wasn't also very clear and precise during the inquest as to what automatic fire and pistol fire was because I was under pressure as well.

MR VAN WYK: Sir, I want to put it to you bluntly that during June last year when you testified before the inquest there was no uncertainty from you as to what these type of shots were whereas today that you want to indicate to the Committee that it might have been from an automatic rifle?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Sir, with due respects, even when I was under cross-examination in the inquest I made it clear that there wasn't very precise on the actual fire.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Wyk, the passage that you read at the beginning, I got the impression that initially he did indicate that he couldn't make out what it was.

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Sir - well then the examination proceeded and then he made it clear that what is the distinction he's making.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, so I think it would be inaccurate therefore to suggest that it was clear to him all along.

MR VAN WYK: Thank you, if I may respond to that during the cross-examination that proceeded it was directed to the witness and he then made it clear - I haven't even completed the passage, the next question was then asked to him "so you thought" - now that's the witness himself "and according to your experience, that these shots were fired with a pistol - is that correct?" and his reply under oath was "That is correct" so even if there might have been some uncertainty in the beginning it was clarified during examination and that is what I want to point out to this applicant and give him the opportunity that your evidence today is in contradiction with what you've testified before.

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: It's not deliberately so, sir.

MR VAN WYK: Would you then concede that the record at the inquest would be a more correct version than your evidence today?  Would you comment?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I'll concede it since it was closer to the actual happenings than it is now.

MR VAN WYK: At the scene in King George at the corners of King George and De Villiers Street, there were concrete - large concrete blocks in King George Street blocking the road, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so.

MR VAN WYK: Would you agree that those blocks were placed in such a way that if the Zulu marchers came from De Villiers Street or down King George they would be kind of marginalised towards the western side of the street because otherwise the people had to climb over the blocks, would you agree with that?