Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR STEWART: Because they would then know if they supported the ANC they would be placing themselves at risk and subject to attack?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And that this strategy would justify in your view, that sometimes non-alliant people would be killed or injured in the process?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And is it also true that at the same time that you had that strategy which I've spoken of, of these random attacks, you also had the targeted strategy, of targeting particular individuals who you regarded as most dangerous, isolating them out and eliminating them through assassination?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And these two strategies existed at the same time, hand in hand?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is so.

MR STEWART: Now Mr Mbambo, to your knowledge is it true that the amnesty applications of yourself and Mr Mkhize and Mr Hlongwane on the one hand were prepared in isolation and without contact with Mr Luthuli and Mr Dlamini and Mr Khumalo and their legal representatives on the other hand?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And that there was no liaising between the two and preparing the affidavits together?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct, there was no contact.

MR STEWART: Now Mr Mbambo, in your experience working in the IFP over these years, is it right to say that there was both simultaneously a public face and a private face to your organisation?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is the truth, that's what we're exposing here today.

MR STEWART: And that the public face was a spousing or propagating peaceful and non-violent political means and the private face was propagating violent and ruthless extermination of political opponents?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And lastly Mr Mbambo, I want to deal with the role of Zweli Dlamini in the eSikhawini area.  His application and his evidence in due course will show that he'd been involved elsewhere and then he came to eSikhawini and he joined the group which you also became part of.  Is it correct that in that group he did not play a leadership role?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is the truth.

MR STEWART: And that he didn't play a role whereby he initiated actions or operations?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And that generally speaking he was the sort of person who did what he was told to do?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: And in fact that he was often not even part of the strategising meetings, he was very often guarding those meetings while the decisions were being taken?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Mbambo, no more questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STEWART

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Stewart.  Mr Ngubane, do you have any questions?

MR NGUBANE: Yes, Mr Chairman, thank you.
	Mr Mbambo, I noticed that you have your statement in front of you but you have related these incidents with a very scant reference to that affidavit and you have mentioned quite a number of names without mixing them up and that to me creates an impression that the stories that you are telling come out of you voluntarily and you know them ...[indistinct] too well, is that a fair impression?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: For the benefit of the public, you have mentioned that you had various code names for your group and for your activities and for your equipment, if you can tell the members of the public the code name you used for your hit squad,
can you do that?

MR MBAMBO: We were called Bafana Bafana or Bafana Bumshlaba or Easy Bogey.

MR NGUBANE: And what name did you assign to your equipment, the explosives, firearms and ammunition?

MR MBAMBO: Explosives, that is hand grenades we called Ama Gabati or Large Stones, guns we used to call Ingoge, such guns as pistols and revolvers, the AK47 rifle was called Igeja.

MR NGUBANE: Now you have mentioned a certain gentleman by the name of Sepiwe Umvuyani, is it correct that that man was your close friend, you were almost inseparable with him?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Is it fair to describe that gentleman as the most dangerous hit squad policeman in the Province of KwaZulu Natal?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: What relationship did he enjoy with Chief Gaja Buthelezi?

MR MBAMBO: He was regarded as a son by the Chief Minister and he trusted him wholeheartedly.  If you were a KwaZulu policeman you would not just go and meet the Minister of Police if you were a Constable as Sepiwe was, there are various channels that you are supposed to use.  Even these channels go up to the General's position, you cannot go beyond that to the Minister but Sepiwe Vuyani used to wear leather shorts and wear a leather vest as well as a cap and he would go directly to Parliament and meet the Chief Minister without liaising with any other person.

MR NGUBANE: And when he was, that is Vuyani, when he was transferred from the South African Police to join the KwaZulu Police, he was an ordinary Constable, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Did he have a motor vehicle at that stage?

MR MBAMBO: No, he did not.

MR NGUBANE: And immediately after joining the KwaZulu Police, can you describe his lifestyle, the type of motor vehicles that he had and so on and so on?

MR MBAMBO: His first car was a Mazda 323, a GI, those cars were new at the time.  His second car was a red Golf GTI 16 Valve.  His third car was a 200E Mercedes Benz, the latest model for that year.  His fourth car was a BMW M5, the latest model for that year.  His fifth car was a BMW 325IS which was also the latest model for that year.  His sixth car was a Caravelle, a 2.1I, the latest model for that year and his seventh car was a Mercedes 2 Door, 380SEC.  He also had a flat in St Andrews Street, Durban.  He had a house for R750 000 at Umhlanga Rocks.  He also had car phones in all of his cars.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo, did he have a fleet of cars or those seven cars, were they successively owned?  Did he get rid of one and get another one or did he have them as a fleet?

MR MBAMBO: He would not have less than three cars at one time.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	As a close friend of his, did he tell you where he got the money to buy all these assets?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, he did tell me and I also observed some of the other things.

MR NGUBANE: Can you tell the Committee what you saw and what he told you about the acquisition of these assets?

MR MBAMBO: He received money from the IFP, from the Chief Minister, Doctor M G Buthelezi.  Other amounts of money he used to receive from Mr Gogo who was the owner of the Executive Hotel in Umlazi.
	Mr Sabela, a member of the KwaZulu Parliament who was also an IFP leader at Umlazi had initiated contacts between Sepiwe Vuyani and Mr Gogo so that Sepiwe would protect Mr Gogo from ANC members and Kama Qota where Mr Gogo had businesses.  Sepiwe did this job as a member of the IFP, that is protecting Mr Gogo.  
	I have mentioned a meeting that Sepiwe had with Doctor M G Buthelezi in Ulundi.  I also explained in my statements that on returning he had a large amount of cash that he had on him which he had been given by M G Buthelezi.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interpose Mr Ngubane.
	Mr Mbambo, when you alleged that the Chief Minister gave Mr Vuyani some money, in what capacity did the Chief Minister give Mr - no, in what capacity did Mr Vuyani receive monies from the Chief Minister, do you know?