Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-05-03

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, the bodies were decomposed, but they were still in one form, especially Mr Nzama's body was still in the original form.  You could see what was missing.  If the hand was missing, you could see.  Because even if the body is decomposed, you can actually tell if an arm is missing or a leg is missing.  My brother's body was decomposed, but it wasn't bad, because we could see them, we saw everything.  Mr Nzama's stomach was still in the body.  The other one from Sterkspruit, his stomach was decomposed, but we could tell because he was cut on the stomach when they tried to remove the intestines.  The other one, they had removed the skull.  It is not hundred percent the truth that it was difficult for us to identify, it was easy.

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all?

MS MTANGA: Yes, that is all from me, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it on the 12th of January 1994 that you identified the body?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, it was.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you sign a form at the time?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, we did sign some forms.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you show her please the form with the serial 264/93, maybe A1, others it is A21.  Have you got the form there?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you recognise your signature on that form?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: I think it is obvious, but I don't think any evidence has been given about this as yet, was your brother in the Army, the Transkei?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, he was.

CHAIRPERSON: And were the other two men that you have spoken about, also in the Army?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: The other one was a Police and the other one, I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Which was the Police?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: I am not very sure between Plaatjie and Lekata, I am not very sure which one, because I only saw the bodies when they were in the grave.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't you know them before?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: No, I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you just told when you were identifying the bodies, that one was the Police and one was something else?

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Yes, we were told that the other one was a Police and then the other one, we were told, but I have forgotten.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

MS WILLIAMS: No, Mr Chairperson.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS WILLIAMS

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want to start now, or do you rather want to start after the adjournment?

MR MATTHEWS: I think we can finish now Mr Chairman.  May I just ask Mr Chairman, are you people in possession of the post mortem report?

CHAIRPERSON: We are in possession of the first lot of reports, that are described by Dr Botha, "autopsy" (indistinct) we are in possession of his report.  The one, the first one, where apparently (indistinct).  We are in possession of the reports from Ixopo and the subsequent reports from Dr Botha here in Durban.

MR MATTHEWS: Mr Chairman, if you are in possession of those reports, I think it is in the interest of everybody concerned, that I don't put the gruesome details of those reports to this witness.  I think those of us who have done a lot of trials where medical legal aspects are involved, although maybe the witness herself believes that these injuries were in fact caused by the applicant, I think it is quite obvious from these reports, that they are in fact due to decomposition of the bodies and scavenger.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, some are and some aren't.  But I think, if there is any relevance of this, we might have to hear Dr Botha.  I don't think the witness can.

MR MATTHEWS: I don't have any questions for this witness, thank you.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MATTHEWS

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any, well there are no questions, you have no re-examination, we would also like to thank you, Ms Booi, for having come here today to assist us, to tell us what you saw in the past, and we sympathise with you for the loss of your brother, and it must have been a harrowing experience that you had to undergo, and we thank you very much for having come here.

MS MTANGA: Mr Chairperson, before she leaves, she has indicated that she would like to ask the applicant some questions, if the Committee would allow her.

CHAIRPERSON: I suppose we can do that now.  Very well.

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Thank you.  I would like to ask you Mr Mbhele, that you agreed in Maritzburg that you killed these three people, more especially Zama Mtimkhulu, my brother.  You killed him at Mzabukwenu in High Flats, what made you take his body and hide it in Inkatha, in Hammersdale graveyard?

MR MBHELE: Okay, I will answer this question.  We killed them at Mzabukwenu, the three of them, I wasn't in that car when they threw them or they threw their bodies next to Mzabukwenu.   I think the Police took their bodies to Hammersdale.  I wasn't the one, I wasn't even in the car.  They didn't want me to be in the car with the three dead bodies.

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: You mean you threw the bodies in the veld?

MR MBHELE: Not me, someone, he drove them by the car to Mzabukwenu.

MR LAX: Mr Mbhele, sorry, could you just slow down a little bit, the Interpreters are struggling with the translation.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I think also, perhaps I could explain Ms Booi, that the bodies were examined by the District Surgeon on Ixopo on the 25th of November 1993 and they were thereafter taken to Hammersdale, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the applicant.

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: Thank you.  Now I want to know, you decided on your own to kill these people or you were sent or instructed by someone, and if so, by who?

MR MBHELE: We were looking for a Sprinter car with a Johannesburg or Transvaal registration, because this car was involved in the killing of Mr Maziba who was a member of the IFP and someone was shot in that incident.  Therefore we were instructed that we should do a roadblock to look for this Sprinter car and this car came, and we stopped it.  It had a registration CB and the disk in the windscreen, it was SH and the back was XM, that is when we confirmed that this was the Corolla which we were looking for.

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: I would put it to you that these people came at home to my mother, and they told my mother that they were going to Durban, Holomisa sent me to Durban and they were looking for a car with an Umtata registration.  That car didn't have a Transvaal registration, but it had Transkei registration, therefore you couldn't have stopped that car.  Again I would like you to tell me who did you give the arm and the leg which you removed from my brother's body?

MR MBHELE: I explained this even in the Supreme Court that the only thing that I did was to shoot them, but I didn't take the bodies.  The people who can explain about certain parts of this bodies, are the people who took them by the car and drove with them.  If you know, or if I must tell you, they only had bullets, three bullets, one, one each, that is what I had done.  I didn't even boarded the car.
I don't know what happened to them.  I don't have this information.  These questions can be addressed to the people who took the three bodies.  The only thing that I did was to kill them, and I do accept that and I apologise for that.

JUDITH JUSTISIA ZUZIWE BOOI: When you were killing them, were they screaming, did they ask for forgiveness or for you not to kill them?