Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would like to explain a bit.  At the time I was arrested after the attack, I stayed about six months in prison without bail.  I got bail during December and when I came back I found that kwaMadala Hostel had been pulled down or demolished, most of the people were no longer staying there.  Only the people who were working at the ISCOR firm were around.  Unfortunately some of them I last saw before I got arrested.
	It just happened that I do meet them sometimes, for example I mentioned that I met Ghobi and another one whom I've mentioned before Jambluti.  Those are the only people that I met.  Others since they were not working, I think they might have gone back to their homes in KwaZulu Natal.  Those who were staying in the township might have gone back to their respective homes in the townships.  I don't know exactly where they are staying in the townships.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, the short answer to my question is you don't know where any of those people are today, am I correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: And a short answer please, were any of them accused with you in the criminal trial?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The person that I still remember is Jambluti.  I heard he is staying at Zone 7.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, my question to you was, were any of them co-accused with you in the criminal trial?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It looks like I didn't understand.  I would say that when we were arrested we were 64 and some were taken out and this Jambluti I'm talking about is one of the persons who was released.

CHAIRPERSON: Well apart from Jambluti, were there any of the individuals who were in your group who were co-accused with you?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't really understand, do you mean those who were released or those who were convicted?

CHAIRPERSON: Tell us about the people who were convicted with you and the lawyer will continue to find out exactly what happened to them.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Those whom I can still remember are the people who are here.  One person with whom we were convicted, it was Matanda Mgubane, Swelimuti Msane and one known as Mskubu, another one known as Matlauvo, Hunter Celo Ndlovu.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, what you wanted to find out was, of the people in the group that he mentioned, right?

MR BERGER: The person I wanted to find out, in the group that he mentioned, correct, were any of them co-accused.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khanyile, listen to the question.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Will you please repeat the question, I don't understand the question.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is off.

CHAIRPERSON: You told us that you were in a particular group which consisted, amongst others, Tshabangu, Ghobi, Tzwee, Vanana Futi, Mhlendota Miheza, Jambluti and others, do you recall that?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What Mr Berger wants to find out is whether of these individuals who were in your group, were any of them arrested together with you or were any of them your co-accused.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I understand.  The only person whom I could say was present ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: We know about Jambluti, right.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Themba Mabote was one of them, he passed away.  He is the only person whom I can remember, without mentioning the two who are right in front of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Mfana Futi?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Mfana Futi was never arrested together with the others.  All the others were not arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Ephraim Makasani was arrested.  I just forget he was one of the persons who were arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Tshabangu?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, he's present here.

CHAIRPERSON: Ghobi?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Ghobi was never arrested, he was a State witness.  I would say they were arrested but they were released as State witnesses, Ghobi and Holi.

CHAIRPERSON: And Tzwee?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Tzwee was never arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Damarra Chonco?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Wasn't arrested, Damarra was not arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, the people whom you mentioned who were convicted, I put it to you were not convicted.  The only people who were convicted are the applicants presently before the Committee ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: But Mr Berger, I didn't understand Mr Khanyile to say they were convicted.  I think he indicated that persons like Ghobi and Holi for example were arrested and then they turned State witnesses.

MR BERGER: I'm not referring to those people Chairperson.  There was a whole group of people before that whom the witness said had been convicted but I can move on, it's not essential.

CHAIRPERSON: But which group are you referring to, are you not referring to this group that he has just mentioned?

MR BERGER: No, not that group.
	Mr Khanyile, there was a group of people whose names you mentioned, not the group that we've been dealing with, not the applicants but another group of people.

CHAIRPERSON: Please give us the names of the people in that group that you say he mentioned.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, the witness went too fast for me, I never got the names down so I can't assist.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I can assist with the reference to the names that were mentioned.  The are written here.  The name Skubi, Masani, Matasani and Hunter Celo Ndlovu.  I don't know if that's the group Mr Berger is referring to.  I'm not sure if I got all the names but those I've written down.

ADV SIGODI: Yes, and the other one was Matanda Mgubani.  That was one name also mentioned of that group.

MR BERGER: Thank you, yes.
	And the point I was making Mr Khanyile is those people were not convicted.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Mr Berger, when I gave you these names I was answering your question where you asked me how many people were arrested with me.  I even asked for clarification as to whether you're referring to people who were convicted or people who were arrested.

MR BERGER: Let me leave that group.  The group of people that you say were part of your group, I'm now talking about Tshabangu, Ephraim Makasana and the others, did any of them have a gun which you saw then firing?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: People whom I saw holding the guns or rifles were two, it was Damarra and Themba Mabote.  Even if there were people who were also armed with guns or arms ...[intervention]

MR LAX: There is no translation in English of any of this.

INTERPRETER: There might be a technical problem, you were on air.

MR LAX: Please repeat the answer Mr Interpreter, we can't hear a word.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: People whom I saw right in Boipatong who were armed with guns or firearms were two people, Mr Damarra Chonco and Themba Mabote.  There might be others who were armed with guns or rifles but I didn't see them.

MR BERGER: You were asked about Mr Andries Nosenga and you said you know a Mr Matanzima Nosenga, is that correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I said if it is someone who is called by the name of Matanzima, it's true I know him, it's just the surname that I don't know.

MR BERGER: When did you first meet him at kwaMadala?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Even if I don't remember the exact time, what I can remember is we were called to the stadium and we're to be told about him.

MR BERGER: When was that?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It was before the attack.  Excuse me I want to rectify there.  It was before the attack at Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Who addressed you at the stadium?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Even if I'm not very sure in what I'm going to say, I would say Prince Vanana Zulu who was present on that day.

MR BERGER: Was this a meeting of all the residents in the hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, that's correct.