Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Chairperson the ANC has never thought that the IFP killed Mxenge, or the Mxenges, has never, ever thought that without evidence. We always knew that it was the Pretoria regime that had done that. I don't remember, I don't know what would have occasioned a belief within the IFP that we believed that they killed Mxenge, we never did. And certainly I don't know why the Truth Commission would be blamed, even if there was that misperception about what the ANC thought. I don't know why the Truth Commission should be blamed for that, for the sins of the ANC.
But I think we have to accept that it happens today, political parties in the process of a contest, even a peaceful contest, will characterise one another and denounce one another if possible. The ANC is incompetent, it's failing to deliver, it's soft on crime and you know all sorts of things, that's part of a normal political process. The ANC will say other things about other parties.
The IFP was set up at the instance of the ANC. We had a number of discussions with Dr Buthelezi about this and felt that it was necessary to establish a political organisation to take advantage of whatever legal space existed within the homeland system, to be able to organise people to engage them in struggle. It took a bit of time to discuss this. In the end it was agreed. Dr Buthelezi was one who suggested that it should be called Inkatha, because he said there had been such an organisation earlier, it would be easy to argue that this is really in context with what the regime was arguing, these traditional things, you are going back to your roots to say this thing had been there. I think King Dini Zulu(?) had set it up and so it would just resurrect. It would be easy to sell it.
ANC people, Harry Gwala and the others refused to establish it.  They were taking a very strong militant position to say we are not going to dirty our hands with bantustan politics. We tried, Dr Buthelezi tried, we tried to say no it's necessary to have this organisation. In the end we couldn't move them. Dr Buthelezi came back, said look these people are not moving let me, shall I go ahead, we said yes, and indeed he did.  He came to Lusaka, went to Tanzania to look at the experiences of the political parties, they were facilitated those visits as part of the process of building this organisation which would help to mobilise people.
There's a sharp break which took place in 1979. We met in London, discussed major strategic questions and agreed on all these major strategic questions, actually agreed on sanctions, on armed struggle, on all of these things.
Later the public announcements that were made, these things that are mentioned in this article as Mr Vally read it, anti-sanctions, against the armed struggle, all manner of things started happening, attacks on the Black Consciousness Movement, and so on and in a context like that, in a situation like that, clearly one of the things that would happen and did happen, was we then sat down and said, but what kind of animal is this, because clearly it was not what was intended at the beginning. What kind of animal is this? So there would therefore be a characterisation. It has thrown in its lot with the apartheid regime, it's running a Bantustan system, whatever might have been said. And I think that's a normal political process and I think that must be accepted.
And to the extent that it might have conveyed an image of itself as an organisation which terrorises those people who refuse to abide by its own positions, that will be said, you can't avoid it. It has to be said, they would say certain things about the ANC, communist dominated, ally and agent of Moscow, terrorist organisation, antichrist, seeks to nationalise babies and swimming pools, all of that kind of thing. So that will be said.
It may very well be that the fact that had that character, in fact never mind it may very well be, this man was involved in the Trust Feeds, Brian Mitchell, during his trial he said that the characterisation of the ANC, conveyed to him the image of an antichrist, he used that phrase. It carried to him the image of an antichrist and therefore when they engaged in those activities for which he's now being indemnified or granted amnesty, he said in his trial that I was convinced I was destroying the antichrist, but I'm saying it was part of that political struggle for the opponents of the ANC to define it in a particular way so as to defeat it, and to the extent that was possible, they would use something, pure invention sometimes and sometimes something which, the ANC has an alliance with the communist party, therefore it's believable to say it's an agent of the Communist Party.
We would do characterisations of all organisations and to the extent that the IFP came across as an organisation that was using terror against the people, we would describe it as such. Now you cannot say you should not have done that because the consequence of it would be as follows. I'm saying that I think we need to accept that, that would be the normal part of any political process even now without guns, organisations will characterise one another and it's not in the nature of political organisations to be complimentary about their opponents.
But certainly I think the Truth Commission is made up of very outstanding people who have the possibility vigorously to defend their independence from the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Wynand.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson I think that's true that this holy war rhetoric we found on all sides of the conflict. And I think that statement of the Deputy President is something that's appreciated and understood in the political context. But I still want to get back to an observation that the Deputy President made that I was shaking my head, I was trying to come to grips with the statement seeing that I'm understanding it correctly, that I think the comment at the stage was that we don't think there was anything other or in addition to a third force in this conflict in KwaZulu Natal.
Now I don't think in terms of my experience and understanding before and in the Truth Commission, we all come with our baggage because we come with a history and an exposure and perspective, there's no gainsaying of the activity of a third force or third forces loosely coordinated or uncoordinated on occasion, but I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that there was no active involvement or participation in conflict, not necessarily at a central level, but certainly in the broader struggle going down, that people in the same way did take initiatives at local level. There was reference made to the unit that indeed did devise a plan to eliminate Minister Buthelezi, then the Chief Minister at the time.
We had the information here that that plan and decision resolution was countermanded at national level. Now I have no recollection of this position ever having been publicly made known, in other words acknowledging the plan, the resolution at a lower level and then really publicising the countermanding of that at a higher level. I can only recall a refuting of the statement.
Now am I correct or is my recollection wrong? Wouldn't it have been the prudent way to say yes it did happen at a lower level, no it should not have taken place and we emphasise this, but we had the denial all along. That's my recollection, is it a wrong one?