Human Rights Violation Hearings — Leandra — 1997-06-03

CHAIRPERSON: ... to tell us about your son Aubrey.  If you could please just tell us who you have with you.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I am with Aubrey's aunt.

CHAIRPERSON: She is welcome as well and before I ask Wynand Malan to lead you in your evidence could you please stand and take the oath.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much and I would ask Commissioner Wynand Malan please to lead your evidence.  Thank you.

MR MALAN: Good afternoon Reverend Mokwena.  Before I start will you please just tell us your surname in your statement is spelt with the M O K W E N A which is the North Sotho.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I am Simon Mokwena.

MR MALAN: Yes, how do you spell your name?  Is it M O K W or M O K O?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: M K W A N A.

MR MALAN: Alright, so I presume that is also what our records should reflect as the correct spelling of Aubrey's name?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: Thank you very much.  Reverend Mokwena we have received your statement.  You have filled out our TRC statement document, but I would though ask you to just give us in your own words a summary of the story.  We have read all the information, but if you would share with us we will appreciate that.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: On this particular day, it was in the morning and the children were fighting in the streets.  The situation was volatile.  Then in the morning Aubrey went away together with the other children.  They went to the new bar that has been built and when they got there we heard later on, because I was at home, his mother had gone to Johannesburg, and I heard that there were some youths who had been shot and I remained at home.  Aubrey's mother came and asked as to whether we heard about the children who had been shot.  I told her that I had heard.  Then we proceeded and on that particular day he did not sleep at home.
 The following morning I went around looking for him and as I was looking for him I came across Mr Mahlangu and I wanted to find out from Mr Mahlangu as to whether Aubrey was not amongst the children who had been injured or shot.  He said he did not see him, but he had seen some of them, but there is another unknown male who had been shot and they did not know as to whose child that was and I proceeded to the police station.  When I got to the police station I got some soldiers who were standing outside the police station and they pushed me with the butts of their guns and they asked me as to what I wanted.  I said I had come to look for my son and they said I should go inside the police station.  When I got inside the police station I came across the Chief CID Officer and he instructed me to go and fetch the birth certificate.  
 I went home to fetch the birth certificate and when I came back he was talking to the soldiers.  They were arguing as to which person was I referring to and one of the soldiers said it is the one that I shot who was on top of a tank, I shot him.  This is what this soldier was saying and I was taken from that point.  We went to Evanda.  When we got to the Evanda they said I should open the drawers of the mortuary and identify him.  I positively identified him and when I got him I asked this particular policeman that i was with as to why these children were shot, because it is alleged that they were going inside a bar.  Why did he not arrest them and put them in custody rather than killing them.  His response was that he did not want to discuss that matter with me, because these children were sent by us as the parents to go and wreck havoc and I came back home.
 When I got home his mother was already present and whilst we were sitting there some policemen came into the house.  They started assaulting all the people who were there especially the youth asking them as to what they wanted and they started kicking the others who were there as well as the mother.  The mother was sitting on top of the mattress as a sign of mourning.  Ever since then we never saw each other, but she was quite disturbed by the incident and I think she was mentally disturbed after her son had died.  Up till today I am not staying with her and we buried the boy.  That is all I can say about the incident.

MR MALAN: Thank you Reverend Mokwena.  May I just ask you one other formal question.  What is your own date off birth?  When were you born?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I was born in 1948.

MR MALAN: On the 29th of March?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: That is correct.

MR MALAN: I just want to correct our own information here and the, can you tell us when Aubrey was born, what his date of birth was?  Can you read it from this certificate Joyce?  Which is the date of birth here?

MS SEROKE: 16th.

MR MALAN: Is that the date of birth?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: He was born in 1969.

MS SEROKE: 25th September.

MR MALAN: What is that 9/12/69.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is correct, on the 25th of September 1969.

MR MALAN: And this one?  Okay, thank you very much.  Mrs Seroke has helped me here.  We have now his date of birth as the 25th of September 1969 from the Baptismal Certificate.  Okay, then just one other further more formal question.  In the statement you mention that your son was a member of the African National Congress, at some other stage in your statement you talk about him.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is correct, he was a member.

MR MALAN: At some other stage you talk about him being a member of the ANC Youth League, but the ANC was still a banned organisation and did not operate openly.  Was he part of underground structures or was he part of another organisation by another name which was sort of ...

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, they were working underground, because at that time it was still banned.

MR MALAN: Okay, was he a member of any of the underground structures formally?  If you say he was working underground, was he in any way a member of the ANC?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: They were Comrades at that time, but I do not know which particular structure that he belonged to.

MR MALAN: And then you said in your evidence this morning, Reverend Mokwena, that the situation was volatile and the children were fighting that morning in the streets.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: Can you give us more information on that?  What was the nature of the volatility, what was the cause and what were they fighting about and with whom were they fighting?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I think they were fighting for the building of the schools as well as houses at that time.

MR MALAN: If you say fighting you are not talking of physical fighting in the streets then?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: No, they were not physically fighting, but they were boycotting classes and conducting some boycotts, but not physically fighting.

MR MALAN: So when I heard you saying that the children were fighting in the streets was that a demonstration that you talked about that morning?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Your information as to the flow of events that day, you got it from someone else.  Who told you the story?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I was told by the people who were there who witnessed the incident taking place, because at that time I was at home.  They told me that some youths had been shot also.  I never went there to witness the incident.

MR MALAN: Reverend Mokwena, just as to the exact circumstances, I do not know how much you will be able to tell us or whether we may have to look at some of the other witnesses to get more information.  In your statement, your written statement to us you say that the police went out and the children were chased away and then you say the children came back and broke the bar lounge and got inside and when they were inside the police came and they shot them.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: That is correct, that is true.

MR MALAN: Were the police on the outside and the children on the inside when they were shot?