Amnesty Hearings — White River — 2000-05-04

MR SNYDERS: If you look at my first statement you will see that a supplementary statement would follow, and if there were any omissions, these would be highlighted during the hearing.  At that stage thereafter the attorney who handled our case was deceased and that is why our supplementary affidavits followed so long afterwards, but I warned Mr Louis Snyders and I told him that we had to apply for amnesty and he refused to do it.

MR VAN WYK: But that is indeed what I want to know from you, when you warned him and told him to apply for amnesty and you handed up an application, why did you not mention him in your first application?  I want to make the point that your brother denies his involvement here, and secondly, my instructions are that you involve him because there is a family feud.  Would you like to comment on this?

MR SNYDERS: I think that is his version and your version of it, but the fact of the matter remains that the Truth Commission came back to us on various occasions and they wanted certain detail with regard to these incidents and I elaborated thereupon and they wanted names of other persons who were involved and that is why I elaborated on it.  So that is his version and I will stick to mine.

MR VAN WYK: A following aspect which I would like to take up with you, has regard to the secret organisation, Toekomsgesprek.  You would agree with me that your brother, my client, was not a member of Toekomsgesprek.

MR SNYDERS: No, never, he would not have made it.

MR VAN WYK: In other words, he was not part of your inner circle who took decisions and was with management?

MR SNYDERS: Not at all, he was too young.

MR VAN WYK: The reason why I ask you this is, if we page to page 83 of the application, paragraph 20 reads
"Who were all involved in the Lowveld?"
Do you agree?  Do you have that on page 83?

MR SNYDERS: Yes, that is correct.

MR VAN WYK: And then you mention in 20.1
"Toekomsgesprek, the Paul Kruger TG group in which I was and there were the following members ..."
and then you give the names there.  And if we page over to page 83, L, why does your brother's name appear there if he was not a member of TG?

MR SNYDERS: No, that was an elaboration, Johan Broekman and Johan Segers were the TG members, he was just along with them.

MR VAN WYK: The reason why I ask you is because you deal with the TG members and then you include your brother, but your brother is not a member of Toekomsgesprek.

MR SNYDERS: No, he was never a member, but the other two were.

MR VAN WYK: Do I understand you correctly, that with regard to the letter "L", you do not want to insinuate that your brother was involved in Toekomsgesprek?

MR SNYDERS: No, he was not involved at all.

MR VAN WYK: I would just like to make a statement to you, my instructions from your brother are that he denies that he went to Maputo to fetch arms.  That is your brother's version, would you wish to comment?

MR SNYDERS: Let us accept that that is his version, what I had said here in this thing, and that is the whole purpose of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it does not help that I am trying to suck lies from my thumb here.  This is not about Toekomsgesprek, this mentions whoever was involved in the Lowveld.  It's because the whole organisation was about Toekomsgesprek, so if Mr Snyders alleges that he was not there, then we shall say that is his statement.  I know where he was and I know what he did and that is that.

MR VAN WYK: Is this on the grounds of what you had heard?

MR SNYDERS: No, this is what I know.

MR VAN WYK: The reason why I ask you this is because in the initial application where reference is made to the arms in Maputo, no reference is made to your brother.  Do you have any problem with that statement of mine?  I shall assist you here.  If you study page 7 of your previous application, clause K, and in your initial application you did not mention your brother, but later you do involve him.

MR SNYDERS: Yes, that is correct.

MR VAN WYK: Thank you.  The following aspect to which I wish to refer you to is, if you would go over to page 85 of the bundle, this is in regard to the explosions at the high school and the Nelspruit Agricultural College.  I shall deal with these simultaneously.  You will note that on page 85, paragraph 23, in that paragraph you twice refer to your brother, you say
"Louis Snyders and I were personally involved in the manufacturing of these bombs."
And furthermore you say that:
"Because Louis and I were involved in the manufacturing of the bombs that had been planted at the college and at the high school ..."
Do you see it here?

MR SNYDERS: That is correct, yes.

MR VAN WYK: You would agree with me that if you study page 7 of your initial application, paragraph 23, then your brother's name does not appear there.  Do you agree?

MR SNYDERS: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: And then in your second application which was filed in 1999, and the first one was in 1996, two-and-a-half years later, you just add your brother's name there.  Do you agree?

MR SNYDERS: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: Do I understand you correctly that your brother was involved in the manufacturing of explosive devices, or did your brother just accompany you?

MR SNYDERS: I do not wish to elaborate too much on this, the point is that he accompanied me on many occasions.  One has to accept that where I wanted to protect one - at that stage in my first statement it was only myself, Jan and Tienie who were arrested, so the whole thing revolved around myself, there were no other arrests, but after some communication between ourselves and the TRC, they told us to elaborate on everything that had happened and that is why I elaborated more in detail as to who was involved and when.

MR VAN WYK: But you agree in your new application it was just your brother's name that was mentioned.

MR SNYDERS: That's correct.

MR VAN WYK: The reason why I ask this is, if we look at your newest statement, page 120 of the bundle - you must please assist me if I understand this incorrectly, paragraph 8.3 reads as follows
"I manufactured this bomb myself."
you do not say Louis and I, and this concurs with your initial application.  In other words, you were involved yourself by yourself, or do I read this incorrectly?

MR SNYDERS: No, you are not incorrect.

MR VAN WYK: And then you say that you and your brother planted it there.  For the sake of completion for the Committee, my instruction is that your brother denies any involvement in the manufacturing of these bombs or the planting of these bombs.  Your comment to that?

MR SNYDERS: I have not comment, I would just like to say that that is his version of the matter.  What I had written here and what I had elaborated on here is the truth and I shall stick to that.

MR VAN WYK: And a following aspect which I would like to clear up with you, if we study page 86 of the bundle, paragraph 24, the last there lines of paragraph 24
"I had many bombs in reserve, which I had manufactured in November of 1991"
Was this when you manufactured these bombs, November of 1991?

MR SNYDERS: Some of them.

MR VAN WYK: Because my instructions are that your brother at that stage, in November 1991, was still in Perdekop, would you agree with that?

MR SNYDERS: Yes, I don't know where he was at that stage.  Those were not all of the bombs, I kept some of them from 1991.

MR VAN WYK: But the bombs were built in 1991.

MR SNYDERS: Not all of them.

MR VAN WYK: And on the same page paragraph 25.2, reference is made to the R1 rifles and ammunition which was fetched by Johan Broekman, Johan Segers and Louis Snyders in the Komatiepoort vicinity.  So this is the third time you refer to your brother here, but which does not appear in your initial application, would you agree?

MR SNYDERS: Yes.

MR VAN WYK: Once again, my instructions are that your brother denies that he was involved.  Your comment to this?