Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

CHAIRPERSON: We request that these people come forward.  Mr Nkebe Soswiti Mdutshane, Welcome Mtutuzeli Jara, Mandlakayise Singleton Lumbo, Mabutha Magebethu Tonga, Mantwantle Thandeka Mbaligontsi and Amos Mazizi Kango.

REV XUNDU: Can I swear them in Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may swear them in.

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: (sworn states)

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: (sworn states)

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: (sworn states)

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: (sworn states)

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson, they have been properly sworn in.  Your stories are very similar, let's try not to be repetitive.  Some of you are just going to confirm.  I am going to start with you Mr Nkebe Mdutshane.  Could you briefly tell us, give us a picture of what happened in your village?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: There was unrest.  I don't know the details.
The start and the finish, I just know that I was hurt and injured.  I just know about my injuries.  I was from home, I was going to Maqageni and there were people there.
 My injuries I sustained when I was at home, I heard a noise, I got out and I went to Maqageni.  I was not going to people I knew, I started walking ahead and I went over the fence.  As I looked back, there were two people after me, they were running.
 I knew these people, it is people I stayed with in the village.  I went back towards them.  Before I got to them, as I was trying to go over the fence again, they had already passed me when I had gone over the fence.  As I was going, running up the garden, there were people on both sides.
 I could not run.  Then an elderly man came, this woman's husband, he was running after these two people,  running behind them.  There were trees there and he started approaching me.  As I was standing there Mandlagentle and Bothla came. 
 When this man just went over the fence, a bullet followed and this bullet hit me.  As I was running down the garden, I fell down and they came.  This lady's husband they had surrounded by divine intervention as I got up, they hit me on the leg.
 When I was trying to run over the fence, I got stabbed on my back and I fell over the fence.  I tried to get up, I saw the people that were killing this lady's husband.  I don't know whether I can mention their names.

REV XUNDU: Let's just revert back to your statement.  I just want you to clarify something, what was the cause of this?  What were you fighting about?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: This trumpet that called people.

REV XUNDU: What was the cause?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: There was a gathering where everybody was called.  In that gathering there was - people started toyi-tyoing.  I was not there.

REV XUNDU: Who called the meeting?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Dutshane.  The Chief.

REV XUNDU: The same Chief, he is an Inkatha member?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: The Chief was against the toyi-toyi.

REV XUNDU: Was the toyi-toyi there anywhere?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: It had just started.

REV XUNDU: The Chief was against the toyi-toyi?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Did the Chief come to the toyi-toyi?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes, he did because everybody was there, but we heard that the toyi-toyi was not legal there.

REV XUNDU: Were you part of a toyi-toyi?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes, I was part of a toyi-toyi, but on this particular day I was not there.

REV XUNDU: What happened at Qoboso after that?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: It was when I got injured after that.

REV XUNDU: In other words, you want to say because there was conflict and violence there was toyi-toyi and the Chief was against the toyi-toyi, that is why you are here?  Can you please tell us in which organisation your Chief belonged to?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: I don't know, but he just said he doesn't want any toyi-toyi, even today in our village.

REV XUNDU: What is your request then to the Commission, what would you like the Commission to do concerning this matter?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Can you please repeat sir?

REV XUNDU: What is your request?  What would you advise the Commission concerning the situation in your village?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Do you mean in terms of conflict?

REV XUNDU: What is your request, what is your request to the Commission?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: My request to the Commission?

REV XUNDU: Why are you here?  What is your clan name?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: I am Mdutshane.

REV XUNDU: Mdutshane, why did you come here?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: I came here because I was asked to come here and explain how I got injured.

REV XUNDU: Since you were injured, what would you like the Commission to do?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: My request to the Commission sir, is that there is conflict in our village.

REV XUNDU: In other words you want peace amongst the people?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: I want the Chief to be out of that village and we want someone else to come and rule us.

REV XUNDU: In your statement you mentioned that your leg does not function properly?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes, sir, even today my leg is painful.

REV XUNDU: Is that all you want to say or do you have any other requests?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: My other request is that as I got injured that day, I don't think there will be any man that will employ me.

REV XUNDU: In other words you are asking for a pension grant?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Is that all sir?

NKEBE SOSWITI MDUTSHANE: Yes, that is all.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mbambani.  Before we proceed to the next one, Mdutshane has already said that toyi-toyi, meaning the ANC was - the Chief was against the toyi-toyi, this led to these people being injured.  I want to know whether Mr Jara, whether you have anything to add?  What is your clan name?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: I am Joly from the Batqa clan.

REV XUNDU: What can you add sir?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: Yes, I would like to add something.  In the past time Chief as  Mdutshane, called a meeting when the organisations were launched, he told us to join the organisations.
 After that he told us that he belonged to CONTRALESA, he wanted people to join organisations.  As we were trying to learn about the ANC our Chief was against the ANC, he said that the ANC wants to overthrow him.
 He said that he will be against the ANC because people of the ANC wanted to overthrow him, his committees.  I went to him and I told him that negotiate with these people, the ANC people because there is conflict in the village.  We were in his house when we were discussing this.
 He told me to go to the office to speak with other people in his office, with his committee.  I went to them and told them that we must sit down and discuss this matter.  Your organisation and the ANC must sit down and discuss.  One man, Mr Majojo said that in our village there will be no toyi-toyi.
 Mahambiyela Mijeka supported Majojo, that there will be no village which will support toyi-toyi.  Keswill also supported that idea.  Mpungjeswanjoqo said that we are going
to be against the toyi-toyi and we will fight with these people.
 We had another meeting on the 13th, but I was not present on that meeting.  I came back home late and I heard that people who were toyi-toying were beaten up by the committee of the Chief.  On the 14th in 1992, I woke up that morning, I heard gunshots and trumpets, I went to the veld.   I heard gunshots all the time, after a while the gunshots stopped and the houses were burning down.  When we came back, the police came and they took us with their police vans to Flagstaff.  
 We stayed in prison in Flagstaff, I am not sure for how long.

REV XUNDU: Sir was there anyone arrested concerning this incident when your houses were burning down?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: No.

REV XUNDU: Was there a court case?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: There were charges laid.