Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-12

CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me.  Are you not getting the translation in Afrikaans?

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: No, I did not hear the translation.  I did not hear it at all.
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THOMAS MANTHATA: Can you.  Sorry.  I would request Mr Chairman to put it in Afrikaans.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me try and repeat the question in Afrikaans.

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: Please.

CHAIRPERSON: The question that Mr Manthata asked is that civilians were involved although it also happened all over.  Although we did not at times know who was involved.  The question is that in view of this, what would you say the Commission should do or what should they recommend to the Government that would assist in bringing this whole process as part of the history.  Do you have any specific views on this?

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: I think that it is, perhaps, the duty of each and every South African to contribute to this and therefore I feel that each and every person who at some stage in the past was a victim, should come forward, but to say what should be done is very difficult.  It is something that I cannot tell you.  I understand why it happened, but I would just like to say that everybody who was part of this, everybody who was put of the planning of this, that they should come forward and say this is what I did and this is how I contributed and I am now sorry for this.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr de Klerk, thank you very much.  I have one question.  You said in your testimony as well, these people who planned this thing, the organisers of this siege, they must come forward, they must be found out, it must be found out who they are and they must take responsibility in terms of the total picture, also what their motivations were and how they would have thought and why they did it.  Why are you assuming that there was, indeed, organisers involved
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here?

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: It is obvious that not anybody who belonged to a semi-military organisation would act without an order.  I have never heard of.

CHAIRPERSON: So are you saying that you did not think that they acted out of their own accord?

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: No, I do not think that they acted out of their accord.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr de Klerk, you know that we have an enormous task and if only you would listen to the evidence that was given this morning, if only you heard that.  It is going to be very difficult to say whether the Commission is really going to get to all the answers, but I think what your contribution is and what really got to me is that what led to Mr Manthata's question and that is that the struggle was a whole struggle.  It was a struggle that involved everybody.  It was a struggle where the fighter and the so called civilian that actually disappeared and the fact that you said I understand what happened and I think that understanding is a requirement, a requirement that forms part of reconciliation.
 If the Commission can contribute, if the Commission can contribute to this bigger picture that we can have a better understanding and that we can accept the past, but also that we must know the past and from there we can go ahead.  I would like to thank you and I want to thank you for the trouble for coming here today and specifically that you remained after lunch since you probably expected to give evidence before lunch.  Thank you very, very much.

WILLEM PETRUS DE KLERK: I would also like to thank the Commission and I hope that at the end of the day we will have peace in our
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land.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr de Klerk.
 Is Mrs Christie here.  Did Mrs Christie not come.
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