Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, if I can remember correctly, the first phase was as you said. The second phase would have been getting the money, a third phase establishing the base and getting the people together. Then there were a number of phases until the end of the entire plan.

JUDGE WILSON: Well, the political comes as number eight.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: That's right.

HASSAN MALL: So apart from a nucleus of four people, who had operated under your leadership at that stage, no political organisation was brought into existence.  Is that right?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: We hadn't brought into existence a public political organisation, no. But we had the support of political leaders and the objective was to become part of the overall political objective.

HASSAN MALL: I understand the objective.  My question really related to whether that support had reached a stage where you had formed a political organisation, and it seems that that was stage eight. You hadn't reached that stage.  So whilst you may have had political persuasions and a philosophy to guide you, and maybe the other members as well, a political wing had not yet come into existence as such.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: When I speak about a political wing in the documentation there, it is referring to an openly political wing that could operate openly and in public.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: But I feel that our organisation was already a political organisation, because if it wasn't for the political aspect of it, there would have been no organisation.

HASSAN MALL: But I understand that your political objectives could only commence once you have gathered together a sufficient amount of money and arms, recruited enough people, trained them. In the meanwhile, I understand you made contacts with influential people belonging to other political organisations.  You might have received some measure of moral support, or agreement with your views, but it hadn't reached the stage where this political wing had in fact come into existence.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: No, the political wing hadn't come into existence at that stage, the openly political wing, no.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Sorry, Mr Du Plessis, when you were asked about why you made your pistol available to Mr White, you said that you people had to be armed at all times in case of intervention by the security.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: That's right.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: In which case apparently you would shoot?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, we felt that if the security police was to intervene in any way, that we should shoot.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: What if the intervention was by civilians?  What would happen if it was to be a civilian intervention?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I am not, I am not quite sure. We had planned for political, for police or Defence Force intervention.  We didn't feel though that if we had proper planning, if we had planned our operations properly that any civilians would intervene.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Well, isn't the position that given the determination on your part, and even if it were to be civilian intervention you would be prepared to shoot your way out or to get whatever you wanted to get?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, as I said before, we were very motivated and we had decided that the aims justifies the means, and we had decided that nothing was to stop us from achieving our political objectives.  That is correct.  However, I did not envisage at that stage in any way, that civilians would have to be put into any danger.

HASSAN MALL: Are there any questions that you gentlemen would wish to put from what has been said now?

UNKNOWN: Not from me, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

UNKNOWN: Neither from me.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV PRINSLOO

UNKNOWN: I have no further re-examination, Sir.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY ADV RHOODE

HASSAN MALL: Thank you very much.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
WITNESS STANDS DOWN

ANDRIES HENDRIK ALBERTS: (Duly sworn, states).

UNKNOWN: Mr Alberts, would you please give your full names and identify yourself?

ANDRIES HENDRIK ALBERTS: Yes, Andries Hendrik Alberts, adult person, self-employed and I reside at Hartebeespoortdam.

UNKNOWN: Would you describe yourself as financially independent?

ANDRIES HENDRIK ALBERTS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Please proceed and tell us about your political involvement?

ANDRIES HENDRIK ALBERTS: In the years 1980 to 1989 I was intensely involved in right-wing politics. I was a member of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbewering, the AWB.  Soon after my joining the AWB I was promoted to the position of head of propaganda and information.  I was also involved in acts which led to the foundation of the Conservative Party. In fact, I also worked with Dr Connie Mulder, his then National Conservative Party which later became part of the Conservative Party.  I was together with people like Dr Albert Hertzog, Genl Cockroft and Dr Connie Mulder. Together with them I was a founder member of the AWSA and another movement at the time.

UNKNOWN: What do these stand for?