Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 2000-02-04

ZAMILE THOMAS GONYA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nompozolo.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Gonya, during September 1992, it's common cause that you were a soldier employed by the Ciskei Defence Force.

MR GONYA: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: And it's also common cause that at that stage your rank was that of a Rifleman?

MR GONYA: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: It's also common cause that on the 7th of September 1992 you were deployed with some other soldiers in the vicinity of Bisho Stadium, the Telkom or the Post Office Exchange then and the University of Fort Hare Branch at Bisho, in that vicinity?

MR GONYA: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: It is also common cause that you were under the command of Col V A Mkosana then.

MR GONYA: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now, can you tell the Commission at the time of the incident with what you were armed?

MR GONYA: Come again.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Can you tell the Commission what weapon was given to you on the day in questions?

MR GONYA: Yes, I can tell the Commission.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Yes, please do so.

MR GONYA: The weapon that was given to me from our base, the Ciskei Battalion, we went with Col Mkosana to Bisho.  We were told there that we were going to Bisho, it was myself Col Mkosana.  I was given a hand grenade.  I was working with this hand grenade.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now how many hand grenades were you given?

MR GONYA: A rocket launcher, it loads six.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Were you given, at the army base, any instructions when to use the rocket launcher?

MR GONYA: When I was given this rocket launcher, I was told that I was going to be with Col Mkosana as I was using this rocket launcher, I was going to hear or get instructions from him and when he was giving me an order to fire, I would use the rocket launcher.

MR NOMPOZOLO: For the purposes of firing, what orders would one as a soldier expect?  What orders, can you elaborate?  What category of orders one should expect?

MR GONYA: You wouldn't just shoot as a Rifleman, because as a Rifleman, you have to get instruction from your company commander, you cannot just shoot without getting instructions.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now what specific instructions would you need to use the rocket launcher?  Are there any specific instructions?

MR GONYA: According to the situation at that time, they did not tell me how to do it, but what I know is when it was said that I should fire, I had to continue that way, but in certain a certain situation when you are using a rocket launcher, you would be told to fire at a certain car, or a certain house, or a certain building, so in that situation I was not told that way.

MR NOMPOZOLO: And at the time you were given this rocket launcher, there were no instructions whether you'll be going to a house or to a - you would be hitting a specific target.

MR GONYA: No, I was not told.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now let's go to the scene now.  You are already on the scene.  What happened there?

MR GONYA: What happened there is that those two vehicles, the one I was with, Col Mkosana and Maj Mbina's vehicle, those two vehicles were stopped at the Telkom exchange and the crowd from King William's Town, they went in the stadium and we were stopping there in that place so we saw this crowd coming from the stadium at the back and we were there with Col Mkosana.  It came towards our direction, coming out of the stadium and at that time I was, we were on the left.  One company was on the left side and the other on the right side.
	Col Mkosana had three radios with him.  The first radio, he operated it with the helicopter and the other radio he communicated with Col van der Bank and the other radio he communicated with the company commanders.
	When this crowd was coming towards our direction, Col Mkosana contacted Col van der Bank and he told him that the crowd is coming out of the stadium and it was coming towards our direction.  Col van der Bank was in Parliament at that time and he was looking through the binoculars in the Parliament building.  Col van der Bank told Col Mkosana, asked Col Mkosana whether he sees a certain tree and then he said that if they had passed that tree, he must inform them.  
	Indeed the crowd passed that tree and then Col Mkosana told Col van der Bank.  He then said that we must fire them and then Col Mkosana called out and said:  "Fire" after the crowd had passed the tree.  He said "Fire" and the soldiers looked at each other.  Nobody started shooting.  He called out again for the second time and the soldiers didn't shoot.  We looked at each other.  He said that again for the third time.  At the third time he was shouting at us saying:  "I am saying fire" and then the soldiers started shooting because they were not used to that situation, that's why they did not shoot at first.  It was their first experience to shoot at the people.  That is why when he was saying fire, Col Mkosana and he was also speaking over the radio with Col van der Bank, I started shooting with the rocket launcher, left and right and in those rocket launcher, I shot pointing at the crowd.  What I wanted to do is that those people must turn back, they must not come to our direction and after shooting those two rocket launchers, I put the firearm in the car and then I sat down and the shooting continued with the rifles.
	Some of them fell down, some went back to the stadium and when they were in the stadium, he then said that we must stop firing.  Col Mkosana said that we must stop firing.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now at the time you were firing, you have already told the Commission that you had an order which was given to the soldiers three times.  Did you believe it to be a legitimate order?

MR GONYA: The order that was issued by Col Mkosana, I wouldn't know whether it was legitimate or not, I don't know whether it was from him or Col van der Bank, I only heard him saying that we must fire, giving out that order.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now from your side as a soldier, did you believe to obey the instruction he was giving?

MR GONYA: Yes, I had to obey that order.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now, regarding the incident itself, you have already told the Commission that soldiers were reluctant, to the extent that a third order had to be issued for them to shoot, how do you feel about the incident?

MR GONYA: What happened there, that incident, according to that situation, when I perceived the situation at that time, those people were not armed, he should have just said that we must maybe shoot two rounds and must observe the reaction of the people, but he only said that we must fire and then he ceased fire when the people went to the stadium, that is when he told us to stop firing.

MR NOMPOZOLO: All I'm asking, I'm asking about you now, how do you feel about the incident?  Do you feel good about it?  Can you tell the Commission how you feel about the incident itself after it happened?

MR GONYA: After this incident had happened, I was not feeling good because when I was shooting there, I knew that the parents of the people that were affected would not feel good about it because they were also our brothers and sisters involved there, so I'm apologising for that.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now what do you ask the Commission to do about you regarding that incident?

MR GONYA: I would like reconciliation.

MR NOMPOZOLO: And do you want to be forgiven for your role you played in that incident?

MR GONYA: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Do you know any of the victims of the incident?

MR GONYA: No, but I used to see the people that were said to be in the stadium.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  That's the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Nompozolo.  Mr Smith have you got any questions?

MR SMITH: Mr Gonya, did you at that time, have any experience in dealing with the grenade launcher?

MR GONYA: Yes, I had experience.

MR SMITH: Tell us about that experience.  Where was that?