Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Now again this is a case where you were prosecuted and you were sentenced to a period of imprisonment for effectively 25 years, 5 years for the kidnapping, 25 years for the murder and those two sentences were to run concurrently, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You're presently serving that sentence?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now I want to turn to the other subject matter of that court case, that is the assassination of Sergeant Dlamini and the murder of Bafana Jeli and his comrades which appears at paragraph 110 of your affidavit and page 50 of the record.  	Now we know from Mkhize's evidence that the murder of these four youths that happened at the shebeen occurred in chronology earlier in the evening that the murder of Sergeant Dlamini, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And Mkhize's evidence was essentially that he had on his own been drinking at some pub, I think it was Paul and Gemmas shebeen?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Kandani.

MR WILLS: Was he drinking at Kandani's shebeen?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And he got involved in  some brawl with certain people and then he came to pick his team up to assist him in that brawl?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now my understanding from Mkhize's evidence is that he was in - was it Lamula's house when this incident occurred at the shebeen?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And in fact Mr Mkhize had nothing to do whatsoever with the killing of these four people, I mean the actual participation in the killing is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now it's also seems implicit from Mkhize's evidence that that evening you did not go out to kill those four youths?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us how it came about that those four youths were in fact killed?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We were standing opposite Nmbula's house, that is where we had our car parked.

MR WILLS: When you say "we" you're referring to?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: It's Ali who was driving the car, Constable Mtetwa who was working for the B.S.I., Israel Hlungwane and myself.

MR WILLS: Now just to digress slightly on this Constable Mtetwa he is, he hasn't been mentioned much in these papers.  Did he assist you, did you get the impression that he was assisting you with this mission or what was the reason for him to be there?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: At the time we were accompanying Dina to try and locate Lamula not with the intention of killing him but because Dina was angry, he wanted to fight him without anyone assisting Lamula.  Dina did not know where Lamula resided but he knew where Lamula's brother was staying and he thought that we'd find him at Lambula's or Lambula would tell him where Lamula stayed and as we had our car parked there, Dina jumped the gate and into Lambula's house he went and we remained in the car waiting for him to come back.  We were hoping that he would bring the house number so that we could get there and once we were waiting, there came these four boys and they walked past the car, went into Paul and Gemma's shebeen.  There is a very strong electric light next to the gate and as they were walking past the light I could identify Umdanda the one that we were looking for and I then told Israel Hlungwane and Constable Mtetwa that that was the person and it transpired that they did not see him, they're not taking any notice and I then suggested that we follow them to ascertain as to whether he is the one and they turned around the house.  There was yet another strong light where they were standing.  Israel had a shotgun and I had a 9 mm pistol.  Mtetwa had a similar 9 mm pistol and leaving the car to follow them Ali indicated that he was not comfortable remaining in the car alone and we then suggested that Constable Mtetwa should remain behind with Ali.
	We then followed them and turned around the house and we found them shopping I think and I shouted "Umdanda" and he turned to face us and there was also a light where I was standing.  I did not have any camouflage on my head or on my body and on turning to face us he recognised that I am Mbambo.  At that moment he withdrew his AK47 and by which time I already had the pistol in my hand.  I started shooting at that very same moment and Israel also shot him with his shotgun and we shot all four of them and they fell.  Two pistols fell and a knife fell from the other one.  Umdanda had an AK47 next to him.  We took these guys, took the AK47 from him and we went back to the car. 
	Israel went straight to Lambula's place and he then came back with Dina.

MR WILLS: Why didn't you just restrict your shooting to Mr - or this person who you regarded as being Umdanda.  Why did you decide to kill the other persons as well?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I don't have a single reason for that but I have reasons that you can enumerate.  I have earlier on explained that Umdanda was on the hit list because it was known that he was the one who hit Constable Danga with a hand grenade and also shot Constable Mthimto too and also shot Constable Mabani.
	Talking about Umdanda, we were not necessarily referring to Umdanda alone, we were talking about Umdanda and his ANC gang or his Umkhonto weSizwe group and on talking about Umdanda as being the target, we were not necessarily after him alone but we also wanted the people for whom he was working and when I found them at the ...[inaudible] shebeen he was not alone he was in the company of the other three.  I did not hesitate that these other three were the ones with whom he was indeed working and the reason for that was that it was at night it was round about 1, 12, midnight. 
	At the time of the fighting at eSikhawini there would be no one you'd find walking after eight in the evening because it was not safe.  Those who walked around or travelled around during those hours were travelling in cars so that those who were walking on foot were the ones who were at war just like ourselves and thirdly they had guns, the two boys who were in their company.  Fourthly, honestly speaking, even though they did not have guns, I would not have spared them because if he was found at such a place in the company Umdanda at that time, that on it's own explains that he was an ANC member.  These were the ANC members we were fighting and killing at the time.
These are the reasons that I can bring forward.

MR WILLS: Yes, now is it correct as well that this incident occurred in J1 section?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And that is a particularly prominent ANC area?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now later that night after this incident you committed another atrocity, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And that involved the assassination of Sergeant Dlamini?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You went from this incident from J1 section to J2 section where the sergeant resided is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And I think Brian indicated that he fired some shots into the Sergeant's home?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes he did fire twice with a shotgun.

MR WILLS: And then because you expected him to be armed as I understood the purpose of that was to try and elicit, retaliate, refire so that you could tell what firearms that the sergeant had, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: But no shots were returned you just got verbal abuse from the sergeant, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.