Human Rights Violation Hearings — Upington — 1996-10-02

WITNESS:  I am going to ask for forgiveness that I am not educated, first of all, I will not be able to give the dates in chronological order as they have been given previously but I do remember at a field the people were called by Captain van Dyk for a meeting.  There was a red building, church building.  When I was going towards the meeting I heard that at the hall there is someone talking, saying you must leave, you must disperse, this meeting is not under law.  I then returned home.  When I got home my husband was at home.  He then asked me why I returned so soon.  I asked him if he did not hear the gunshots, he must not go back I said, he must just stay at home.  We then remained at home.  At about 100 or 200 there was an old lady who lives across me, she called out for me, saying, asking me if I have heard that there is a policeman who was killed that day.  I said I did not know anything about that.  I then returned to my house.  There were policemen everywhere in the location, teargas everywhere.  We stayed at home until sunset.  At sunset we heard that there were a lot of people, especially young boys who were taken into prison.  We stayed the whole of November.  A day before the end of the 29th, a day before the end of November I went to work, so did my husband.  The youth of Paballelo was in prison, even my own sons.  Teachers were in jail.  At work, the morning of the 29th November I saw a white person coming towards me.  I then realised that it is a policeman that, who actually had come to my house previously.  I dismissed that, I continued to cook.  He then asked me where my employer was and asked that I should call her.  He went outside, my employer went to him.  He said to my employer he wants my maid.  My employer said she has got two employees, one sleeps in at her home and the other goes home.  This policeman then said this woman works in your house.  My employer asked for my name.  He did not know my name.  My employer then said she is going to phone her husband.  He asked her not to.  When I went outside, standing on the veranda, the [indistinct] ... policeman greeted me.  He said that he wants a woman who works at the house.  I asked for the name, he said he doesn't know but this woman allegedly has a son who teaches at high school.  I then said that is me.  I asked Barnard the policeman what my name is.  He then tried to find out but he did not know.  I then left him there because he did not know my name.  My employer said I must go with the policeman.  I went to the car.  When I got to the car and I looked outside, there was Desmond Mdluli sitting in the car.  I saw my husband too, Gideon.  I was totally stunned.  Barnard opened the car door for me.  I went inside.  We got to the police station until, we sat there until 6 o'clock.  We were not given water or coffee.  We were not asking anything either because we did not know what we'd going to do there.  There were women who entered where we were sitting.  It was a cement floor.  One of the women, her name was Goli, the other Fena.  At about 5 o'clock to 6 o'clock these policemen took us out and we went to another office in this police station.  When we were walking I asked my husband what is happening, he said he had not heard anything, nobody said anything to him.  When we got there to the office, a certain Captain said we must give in our jewellery.  I then asked what is going on.  He then said there is nothing going on.  In the morning we were supposed to go to Court.  They just thought for us.  They took my husband into a place where people were just walking on top of bodies.  It was packed.  I went to the women's side.  Monday morning they stuffed us into vans and took us to Court.  We were not registered there and we refused to give our names because we were not registered.  We went to Court, when we got there, there was a Magistrate who postponed the case, gave us a date.  We then went back to the vans, back into prison.  We were still not registered up to that point.  We were the only ones who knew our identities.  We went back to jail, we were released on bail, we stayed a month in jail.  Around February the next year, that is when we were released on bail.  We had already been given a date when the court case would be.  When we went back to Court we were still not registered under our names, we were just called by numbers.  The case was postponed yet again.  The entire year the case kept on being postponed.  The one time we were in Court a policeman, Langeni, came to me asking me what my name is.  I asked him, you still don't know my name I said, meanwhile you have brought me into jail.  Why don't you go back where you found out about me and ask what my name is.  I refused to give him my name.  My husband then said I should give my name.  I still refused.  A police investigator should know what my name is.  If they are going to take me into jail they must know who I am.  This investigator called Langeni kept on asking for my name.  I eventually gave my name.  That is the only time and the first time they knew what my name is and my husband's name.  I want to thank God today that even though my husband is deceased and I am in black, I did not want to come here.  My friend is not here next to me but I knew inside that I should come here and tell the truth that there is a Judge Basson - Judge Basson will never see the heavens, they are shut, totally closed unto him.  Even if he died today he will never see the heavens because he used many to bribe people to lie about us.  There is another man with two daughters that gave evidence on, false evidence against me.  These two girls fought against their father saying that they were, I heard, I overheard them saying that they were giving false evidence and they are being paid for it.  God knows everything that is in the dark and he brings it to light.  Ministers have done nothing for me.  In the third heavens a second tragedy has befallen me, my husband got ill.  After he got out of jail his health was very bad.  He was ill.  Even the community is aware of that.  Eventually the doctors sent him to Groote Schuur.  He was operated on there.  This is the very operation that made his health deteriorate.  It is the way he was ill-treated in jail that he is dead today.  It is a tragedy that my husband had to stand for something that he didn't know about.  It is this Desmond Mdluli that is guilty.  Judge Basson sentenced me but I am innocent.  Even if Basson would come here today, he knows the truth.  He will not come here because he knows the truth but God knows the truth and it is written in the Book of Life.  The government of apartheid was bewitching people, they were liars.  They bribed people with money.  They lied about me, in my elderly stage they can lie about me.  Since I was born I have never seen prison.  I have never seen the doors of prison until these people lied about me.  My two sisters are here in the audience, they know what I am talking about.  I heard Basson talking in Court, I didn't even understand what he was talking about.  This lady that was next to me giving me a sweet, I asked myself what is going on in this Court.  In the meantime Basson was saying you must all come here for me to sentence you.  I became unconscious.  After Basson had finished, as I hear, Basson apparently said he is sentencing everyone who was there, to death.  I saw people crying.  Because I didn't understand the language I didn't know what was going on.  People were throwing themselves on the floor, people were fainting.  I asked myself what is going on in this Court.  I asked my husband, nudging him with my elbow, he then told me.  I heard the truth of my sentence in Pretoria.  When I got there at sunset at about 5 o'clock there were people waiting for me.  I was shocked when I saw Yolile and my husband, they could not even walk because they were handcuffed and there were cuffs on their legs.  They were undressed, naked in the streets.  I was taken to a women's prison.  There I was given a glass of water.  I then refused and said I am not thirsty.  I kept on refusing.  I was not thirsty for water but I was thirsty for the truth.  I wanted to know what had led to my going to jail.  They brought food.  My eyes were all swollen up, I couldn't even see.  My whole body was swollen.  I could not walk.  They took me from the truck.  I insisted, I said I am not hungry, I will not eat your food, I said I am not hungry.  They took me - before we left a man came with a whole lot of documents, this man said to me, grandma you must be careful, look after yourself.  He then asked me when last I saw Basson.  I then remembered that I had seen him the previous day.  He then said to me it is at night, we want to give you a place to sleep but we do not want you to go to sleep without knowing what Basson said.  In this document Basson had said that you and other men are sentenced to death.  I was shocked.  I said is this what has been going on the whole day?   I then told him to go ask, to tell Basson that my life does not belong to him.  I am innocent.  It is only Jesus who was nailed on the cross and His blood was shed even though He was innocent.  I am not Jesus, I will not be nailed on the cross and I am innocent.  I told him that I am going to go home to my family.  I told them that I am innocent.  All the evidence that was given in Court was deception.  I told them that meeting was useless.  The evidence that was given in Court was deceptive but our new President, talking about the Bible, says we must forgive each other.  He says that we must throw these previous burdens into the Red Sea.  I hold no grudge but it was very painful that when I got to Pretoria the next day a rope that is about a meter long was brought to me.  This rope was put around my neck.  They wanted, I think they wanted to know whether this rope is going to fit my neck.  They measured my neck and they recorded.  What, I do not want to create a discrepancy between my statement and my evidence right now but I do want to declare that both my husband and I were sentenced to death whilst innocent.  Do they, do they think that we are mad?  Do they think that we are going to kill somebody else's son?  Whilst I am talking my children are being taken out of prison one by one.  My son who was a teacher could not continue with his job.  He then went to Windhoek, he has now come back.  He has recently come back and I think this is because he felt that his father was about to die.  I even am not well because I was taken into jail.  When I sleep my back has to be elevated because I rolled down the stairs in prison.  My vertebra is bent.  My doctor says he cannot straighten my backbone.  If they do anything about it, it will cause further damage.  Everybody, every member of my family, my sisters, I have a young child Mulelo and another, Notutuselo.  I left them and they were little children.  That is all I have to say.  I want to reiterate that Judge Basson will never see the heavens, even if he is sleeping in the hospital on his back he will never see the heavens.