Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mooiriver — 1997-05-29

KHOZA MGOJO: I will ask you a few questions.  I know you would have forgotten some of the things what happened because of your age.  I reckon you are 87 years old.  You are quite lucky to be still alive at that age and be able to come and give evidence.  If there's anything that you do not understand you can always say that you do not understand so that I can repeat myself.  Could you just give us a background of your family.  I will just help you out so that we can save time.  Do you still have a husband?

WITNESS:  No, I don't.  He died a long time ago.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you have any children?

WITNESS:   I have five children now, as well as grandchildren, two grandchildren who are alive.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you have any sons?

WITNESS:   I am left with only one son.  The rest have died, and I am remaining with daughters and one son only.

KHOZA MGOJO: And what about this other son who is left, how old is he?

WITNESS:   He has just completed his matric.

KHOZA MGOJO: What's his name?

WITNESS:   His name Jabu Ndlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO: What standard is he?

WITNESS:   He has just completed his matric and he would like to further his studies.  The daughters have also matriculated and they are looking forward to completing their studies, or proceeding to college, and my daughter is Nyanisile Ndlovu.  She has also completed matric.

KHOZA MGOJO: What about the rest?

WITNESS:   They are three.  The other three are married.  They are living in their own houses, but the eldest one has already lost her husband.

KHOZA MGOJO: And the grandchildren you are living with now, whose children are they?

WITNESS:   They are my daughter's children.  She got married and she got divorced, and I am staying with the children now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, how do you earn a living?  Are you getting any pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who supports your family?

WITNESS:   I support my family.

KHOZA MGOJO: And those who have matriculated, are you the one who educated them?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am the one who was supporting them, as well as putting them through school.  And my other daughters were also helping.

KHOZA MGOJO: And what about Sibusiso, how old was he at the time of his death?

WITNESS:   He was 17 years old at the time of his death.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was he at school?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was in standard 10.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, will you please tell us about the day on which Sibusiso was killed.  Tell us everything that you remember, even the circumstances surrounding his death.  Were you as a family affiliated to any political  organisation in Brandville, because we understand that there was IFP as well as ANC?

WITNESS:   What I could say from my own observation was that I did not belong to any political organisation, I was just an ordinary citizen, and I later discovered that I was supposed to belong to a certain political group.  Due to the violence that took place I realised that the people in the located were supposedly belonging to the ANC, and the people at the hostels were members of the IFP.  That is why they kept on attacking us.  They started attacking the location as a whole without even knowing as to whether each and every house has any political affiliation to any particular political organisation.  It's only then that I became aware that I was supposed to have belonged to a certain political organisation, which was the ANC, because we were being attacked by a certain political group which believed that we belonged to a certain political group.  And we heard that the people who were staying in the area or the location were ANC members, and the ones who were attacking were Inkatha.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, as I was saying, could you please now relate as to what happened on the 4th of December 1991, the day on which your son was killed.  What time was it?  What was happening?  Where was he when he met his fate?

WITNESS:   On the 3rd we saw a large group of people approaching from the opposite end, and when they reached the river they assaulted my neighbour's son.  That was on the 3rd.  And they called me at the Mthethwa household to come and witness what had happened because they had killed Mthethwa's son.  And they also called me to my place because the place was full of soldiers.  There were white soldiers at my place whilst I was at the neighbour's place, and when I got there they were pointing guns.  They were inside my bedroom.  These were policemen.  And my sons told me that these were policemen, because I could not differentiate between the soldiers and the police.  To me they are one and the same thing.  And I screamed when I got into the house because I saw this large number of police who were in my house, and I was asking myself as to what was happening.  And they said I should shut my mouth, and I said I was not talking to them, I was just asking Jesus as to what was happening to me.  There is another Madlala boy by the name of Pilo who came to ask me as to what was happening.  They asked the police as to what the police were doing in my house.  They said they were doing their duties.  And at that time they went out.  They spoke to these people who had come to assist me.  They negotiated outside and they said that they were conducting a search, and some of the people who were inside the house woke up after realising that there was a large group of police.  Then they left my place.  I went out and I went back to where I was before at the neighbour's place, and at 4.00 am the following morning when I was proceeding home from my neighbour's place I saw a large group of people approaching, and I realised that the impi was accosting us and it was going to launch an attack.  I ran into the house and alerted my children that a group of Inkatha members was approaching, and that we should find a place to flee.  And they told us that there are some people who had already been killed at that time, and I hid myself into the house.  At that time we heard gunfire from outside.  It sounded like a thunderstorm, and we were scared to even get out of the house.  We were hiding ourselves under the beds.  Some got into the wardrobes.  We tried to hide ourselves, and the gunfire went on.  Even next to my place they were shooting, but we were very lucky because they never got into my house.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who were these people?