Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

MR ALBERTS: Did you immediately after this meeting proceed to the kraal of Mr Msomi?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We first sent the KwaZulu police to this house, so that these people would think the police were the ones who were coming there.  We then followed the police.

MR ALBERTS: Was that on the Sunday?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Okay you now follow the KwaZulu Police to the kraal, what happened at the kraal?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We went in and destroyed the whole kraal.

MR ALBERTS: How many people were you at that time when you attacked the kraal?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were more then twenty.

MR ALBERTS: Were you armed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, we were armed.  I had a firearm and other people had homemade firearms.

MR ALBERTS: If you say you destroyed the kraal, what did you do?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: When we arrived there, we dosed the kraal with petrol that we had, and we set it alight.

MR ALBERTS: Did anybody die on that day?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The police did tell me that some of the people were killed there.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know how these people died?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They were burnt in the house.  There was also a girl from Durban who was visiting.

MR ALBERTS: How did they die?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Before the kraal was set alight, a shot was fired while we were outside there.

MR ALBERTS: Apart from the burning of the huts, were shots fired, was anybody physically assaulted?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: ...[no English translation]

MR ALBERTS: And after these houses were set alight what did you do then?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We then left.

MR ALBERTS: Yes where did you go to?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We went to other kraals in that Nyanini area.  We did the same to those kraals, and we thereafter left.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know who the other people are whose kraals were attacked?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I do not know the owners of that other kraals in Nyanini.

MR ALBERTS: Apart from the Msomi household, can you give us any other names of people whose kraals were attacked?

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, I am sorry to interrupt but this aspect of the matter is not covered by the affidavit.  I don't think it with respect be included in this application.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this talking about the Msomi house?

MR ALBERTS: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright now before you attacked the Msomi house did you satisfy yourself that there were people living in the house?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We did not ascertain whether there were any people in the house, we just attacked without knocking.

CHAIRPERSON: What time of the day was this?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was during the night.

CHAIRPERSON: But were you expecting people to be there in the house?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We knew there were people living in those kraals.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the police do that went ahead of you, what did the police do at this place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The police did not enter Msomi's kraal.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they do?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They walked past and went to wait at Mbeshe Mahaye's kraal.

CHAIRPERSON: Where who had been stabbed, Mbeshe Mahaye?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

MR ALBERTS: Can you remember the date of this attack on the kraal of Msomi?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I think it was in 1994/95.

MR ALBERTS: I see in your statement you state it was in 1994 before the elections, is that more or less correct?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: Sorry Mr Alberts this is rather crucial, it's not a question of more or less correct.  If it is after the elections then there is no application, so could you try and establish whether he has any recollection as to the relative date relating to the elections?

MR ALBERTS: Have you got any idea, do you know if it was before the election or after the election?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I cannot remember because this happened long ago, I think it was in 1994, before the election.

MR ALBERTS: You gave us two times, initially you said 1993/1994 or 1993 beginning of 1994 and now later you say 1994/1995, which is now correct?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I think it was before the election.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

MR ALBERTS: This Mbeshe Mahaye, who was he?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mbeshe Mahaye was an IFP supporter.

MR ALBERTS: And do you know why he was killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I know why he was killed.

MR ALBERTS: What is the reason?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was an IFP member.

MR ALBERTS: And after the attacks on these houses, did you all go back, where did you go to then?

MR MALAN: Sorry Mr Alberts, the answer was that he was killed simply because he was a member of the IFP.
	Was he a youth leader in the IFP?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was the leader of the youth.

MR MALAN: What was his position?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was just a secretary of the place where he was staying.

MR MALAN: Which particular place is this?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mkhukhuze.

MR MALAN: You said initially when asked that you know him very well, is that correct?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: When you were asked in the beginning whether you know Mbeshe Mahaye your response as it came over through the interpretation service was: "I know him very well."

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: Was he ever part of your group that went attacking ANC's?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, he was not some of our group.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

MR ALBERTS: The other incident that you mention was the son of Ngodini Nthuli. Who was this person, the son of Ngodini Nthuli?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I do not know the name of this Ngodini Ntuli son.

MR ALBERTS: Why was he killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was killed because he was a member of the ANC.

MR ALBERTS: Did he have any position in the ANC, any specific reason why?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I knew him as the teacher in the area.  I do not know whether he had a position in the ANC.

MR ALBERTS: And who decided that he had to be killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The person who decided that he should be killed is Nyawuza.

MR ALBERTS: And who was present when this decision was made?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Bonga Dlamini was present.

MR ALBERTS: Only him, you and Dludlani?

CHAIRPERSON: He didn't say he was.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you present as well?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I was present.

MR ALBERTS: And did Dlulane give any reason why Nthuli had to die?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There are reasons, yes.

MR ALBERTS: What reason did he give?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mr Nyawuza and him once argued to the extent they drew firearms and wanted to shoot each other.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know what happened during that confrontation?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was because of the political party.

MR ALBERTS: Yes, do I understand you correctly that there was a shooting incident?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They did not shoot each other, they just drew their firearms and a person who was present had to intervene.

MR ALBERTS: Were you present?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No.

MR ALBERTS: After the meeting regarding Ntuli, or let me put it this way first, who made the decision that Ntuli must die, was it one person that said Nthuli must die or was it a consensus that was arrived at?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The person who ordered that Mgodini's son should be killed is Mr Nyawuza because he is the one who had an argument with him.

MR ALBERTS: Nyawusa that is the same person as Dlulane?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Can you remember when this meeting took place?

CHAIRPERSON: Let's just talk about when the shooting took place or the confrontation, when did that take place?

MR ALBERTS: The confrontation between Dlulane and Ntuli's son do you know when that took place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It happened in 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.