Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-11

NAFCOC SPEAKER: Can I just add that the market base of the bank is different from other banks, it was dealing with the poor.  Operationally, it becomes difficult, whereas other banks had a combination of the upper class and then maybe the middle class, but the African Bank was mainly in the lower class.  It became very difficult to collect, you find yourself in the  pool of bad debts.  I think it was just a problem and also, the question of management.  You have a bank, you start thinking of the manager.  Who is the best person we can bring to manage the bank?  I think the African Bank was faced with that problem.  May I say that, at the time, I mean it's not that it was only the African Bank, the African Bank, because of its position had no one to give its (unclear).  But other banks which operated in a similar position, might have got some help from other quarters, but it was difficult for the African Bank.

CHAIRPERSON: Bongani?

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you, your Grace.  I've got two small questions.  I feel that in your submission you deal very briefly with what you call regional government, I think it refers to also homelands.  Homelands were notorious for a number of things, and amongst those were the manner in which the homeland attempted to restrict and even ban trade unions that operated.  Your own membership which operated in the Homelands, did they in any way take action to oppose Homeland government in this endeavour?  The second question is, on your vision.  My colleague here, Hlengiwa, was telling me this morning  that the business of business is making maximum profit.  Does Nafcoc have another vision?  Another vision of doing business in this country in such a way that you make profit but also promote a culture of respect for human rights?  And are the members of Nafcoc, catching that vision and beginning to show a different way of doing business in this country?

MR KONGWANE: Thank you, Mr Chairman I will respond to the first question.  I think the most notorious of these homeland governments, if I may say, were the Boputhatswana, and sorry, and the government of KwaZulu.  In 1986 we had to deal with the question of sanctions.  And Nafcoc had to take a stand.  Unfortunately, at that meeting, Nafcoc took the stand that sanctions should go ahead.  And some of our colleagues who came from Natal, were faced with problems when they went home.  In fact, they did say at that meeting, that they knew they were already in trouble.  We know that some of them were not even allowed to continue with business, some were disrupted in the way of murder.  The other problem that we saw, was that alternative chambers were created.  For instance there was the (unclear) which was an alternative chamber established precisely to destabilise Nafcoc.  And of course there was also an alternative union, which was also established precisely to destabilise COSATU, and NAFTO and others.  It was very difficult for our members in Natal  to stand up and to say a word.  They tried, eventually most of them and some of them who had guts, some of them were killed, some of them were imprisoned, some of them lost their business'.   It was a vicious fight.
 In Boputhatswana, the same thing happened.  Any person who advocated for sanctions or aligned himself with progressive movement or ideas, had his business either stifled in a way or another, and of course, even there, they had what they called the 'Bofcoc'(?), which was a chamber to stand in the place of Nafcoc.  It was very very difficult even for the people that were at the meetings.   Our vision of doing business.  We think that the time has dawned, that really as I have said in my preamble that time has come, we don't want to look to the past.  We want to look to the future.  But as we look to the future, we are really asking a big, and I want to say white business, to take hands with us, to help black business.  You must understand, that sustenance of technology, management skills, apprenticeship and those things, were not allowed our people.  We are talking now a three year independent period.  In this period we have not had enough time to train our people properly and of course, you know that transference of technology to some extent, was government to government and our people have not had an opportunity to be trained.  We really think that big business owe us a friendship, a time to share, a time to uplift our people, so that we might be in a position to be able to compete in global markets.  Because until these big business' help small business', to be able to do business professionally and to be able to produce quality goods in the whole of South African, we'll not be able to produce.

NAFCOC SPEAKER: Just  to add on, independent homelands. if you were a member of the organisation, that was defying the homeland operation.  They had various bodies, like the liquor board, they've got their own petrol committees.  People in the homelands, were not allowed to own the land.  Now if you wanted to put like a service station.  The trustee of the land,  who would be the Development Corporation in that homeland.  It means you identify the place, and then somebody would guarantee that money so that the oil company can use that, who would be the Development Corporation.  For it to operate, you have to go through, the Homeland's Department of Trade and Industry.  And there the committee would have to approve.  So if you are not in favour of the policy, you will not be able to go through with it.  The time, at the time that I was working for Mobil Oil, we interviewed people at Tohouyandou, who were suitable and we granted them the service stations.  We were called and told by (inaudible) government,
"Take your own service station, take it at once back, remove it or otherwise I put my own person".
In Garankuwa, during Mr Mangope's reign, we were also called to come and remove the service station.  Because we had granted each to somebody who was not a supporter of the government.  Eventually, they had to put their own people.  
 So this is how persecution of black business was pursued in the homelands.  If you look historically at people who were running bottlestores, and service stations, the majority of them will be supporters of the government.  Here in urban areas, the oil companies, in particular adopted a trend of dealing with community council.  Because the first thing an entrepreneur should do is to identify the site.  He would apply to the Soweto Local Council and if you are not being favoured, one of the councillors would know, would have inside information, he would approach the oil company that has got this site, the site that somebody has identified.  The oil company would then go into cahoots with that councillor.  I would not mention oil companies, but if you look at the statistics during the destruction in1976, there were two prominent oil companies which were at the end of the rail.  Because almost, most of their service stations were owned by councillors.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Hlengiwa?