Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

MR VAN ZYL: Just one aspect please, Mr Chairman.  Dr Swanepoel, yesterday Dr van Rensburg testified that at the stage when Dr Daan Goosen was the Managing Director, he was involved in, amongst others, the research and he said the position after you took over changed as he said you did not make a similar contribution as Daan Goosen because you did not know what was going on with the research.  Does it fit in with the knowledge you had about the process?  You did not know about the research, that's why you did not interfere in that?

MR SWANEPOEL: Yes, the research I left for the researchers and I was involved in the management of the company.

MR VAN ZYL: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Polsen?

MR POLSEN: Dr, you referred to various contracts by Daan Goosen, there was a freezing of a embryo which was done for Dr Rautenbach and I have statements of his subordinates which it was said they did this job.  It was not a registered project and it was not on company's list of research projects.  How did Dr Goosen register that?

MR SWANEPOEL: I don't understand your question.

MR POLSEN: You said that he concluded certain contracts or he impeded certain contracts.  How did he do that with the establishment of the subsidiary company?

MR SWANEPOEL: The purpose was that the military, the Police and Eskom would stop their various projects and then these dogs had to be bred at RRO.  Things went wrong and the feedback was that they could not work with Dr Daan Goosen.  Eskom placed a person there, he was used as the director and Dr Goosen and that person experienced big problems, so the whole management or the operation of the company came to a standstill until such time that the other person went back to Eskom and they also took the contracts or the dogs back.

MR POLSEN: He also referred to subsidies being obtained for a house which was renovated.

MR SWANEPOEL: It was his house at that time.  He had certain contracting work being done, building work and he asked a subsidy for that later one.

MR POLSEN: He was not - we will ask Dr Goosen about this ourselves.  I have no further questions.

MR CURRIN: No questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr du Plessis?

MR DU PLESSIS: No questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination.

MR CILLIERS: No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions from the panel?

UNKNOWN: Did one of your projects deal with fertility?

MR SWANEPOEL: It was one of the registered projects at Roodeplaat.  Initially it was an in-house project.

UNKNOWN: And later, was it a hard project?

MR SWANEPOEL: Yes, in time it became a hard project, or part of that.

UNKNOWN: Were you interested in that project?

MR SWANEPOEL: No.

UNKNOWN: And the result of the project?

MR SWANEPOEL: I cannot comment on that.

UNKNOWN: I understand that there were no results.  Did you at any stage exert pressure on the people who were involved in the project to get results?

MR SWANEPOEL: No, I was not involved in this at all.

UNKNOWN: Dr van Rensburg told us that he was one of the persons who worked together with Dr Borman, so Dr Borman was actually the person who dealt directly with this project?
He was a kind of an advisor to Dr van Rensburg and he said that on various occasions you exerted pressure on them to come to the fore with the product of that project.

MR SWANEPOEL: That's not true.

UNKNOWN: Can you give us any reason why you think he would try and get you into trouble?

MR SWANEPOEL: It seems that it is not of much interest or importance.  I think that I made myself clear, it's a personal - an old man whose got - who is grieved about things and wants to get his own back.

UNKNOWN: Dr Swanepoel, these companies that you were part of and how they were set up, now, from other people we've heard first of all, is it Infidel or Infladel, both RRL and Delta G reported to initially.

MR SWANEPOEL: It was Infladel, yes.

UNKNOWN: ...(inaudible)

MR SWANEPOEL: No.

UNKNOWN: And then we heard about Medchem as the holding company for many of these other front companies.  Were you involved in Medchem?

MR SWANEPOEL: No.

UNKNOWN: Just explain to me again in terms of structure that you gave out earlier on that there was first of all your internal structure and then there was reporting to the middletory structures, the Finance Committee, the Co-ordinating Committee and the Security Committee.  Where did Infadel fall, how did they come into the structure, or was there dual reporting that was going on?

MR SWANEPOEL: As far as my knowledge goes Infladel was a structure that was created to - for specifically in connection with the image to the outside.  When companies were extremely confidential and had to have an image of a commercial industry, it was there to represent shareholding and to represent the channels of communication.

UNKNOWN: In the situation that we're looking at the present time, when you started off, your company was a 100% supported by the military, so there were no shareholders as such, were there?

MR SWANEPOEL: Nominee shareholders.

UNKNOWN: So who were these nominee shareholders?

MR SWANEPOEL: Myself - well, before my time Dr Daan Goosen, Immelman, van Rensburg and Mr Spalmer.

UNKNOWN: And the same then applied to Medchem as well, they were just nominee shareholders?

MR SWANEPOEL: I don't know.

UNKNOWN: You had nothing to do with it?

MR SWANEPOEL: No.

UNKNOWN: Some of the reports we have in our files as well as the information that came out in the last few days talked about an incident that took place in Mozambique in 1992 where several soldiers died, many were incapacitated, was your company ever involved in carrying out any tests there?  Are you aware of this incident?

MR SWANEPOEL: I have no knowledge of that.

UNKNOWN: Earlier on when Mr Chaskalson asked you about your company and the contributions you made to it, you talked about the - that the science was of a high standard, that management was of a good standard, but what was the profitability of the company by the time it became privatised in 1991, and certainly by - and I'd like to know also the subsequent development, what happened to it, you've mentioned the sum of R50 000 that you invested in the company.  What has happened to this company since?