Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-09-02

CHAIRPERSON: What did you hope to achieve by the kidnapping?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I believe that would be what we call in politics, that is political harassment, for political activists.

MR VISSER: So is it now your evidence that the reason why you had to kidnap White Mohapi, was to harass him and that is the reason also why you had to assault him?  Is that now your evidence?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I give the answer because of the question asked by the Chairperson, but the person who is troublesome in politics, that would be the other method which we would use.  Harassment would be the other method we used.

MR VISSER: And was that what was in your mind on the evening when Mohapi was kidnapped and you participated in the attack on him?  Is that what was in your mind?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I did what I was instructed to do.

MR VISSER: Does that mean that that was not in your mind, that you attacked, you assaulted him merely because you were told to do so?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: The instructions were that he should be kidnapped, then when we did that, then I had to take part in the assault.  He was kidnapped, then therefore I participated in the decision that he should be assaulted.

MR VISSER: But you did not know why?  You now say that you think it is because Erasmus and Shaw wanted to harass him?

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Visser, he said they kidnapped him and then I participated in the decision to assault him.  Who took the decision to assault him?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: They brought him.  At that time when we arrived, then we alighted from the combi, then they said he should be assaulted, then I took part.  I didn't know that when he was kidnapped, he was kidnapped to be assaulted, but at the time when he was supposed to be assaulted, I took part in that assault.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, but they said he should be assaulted.  Who are you referring to?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Those are the people who came with him, that is Mamome and Tsoametsi.

MR VISSER: And Mr Motsamai, not so?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: He was kidnapped by two people, then they met us, then we took him to Bloemspruit.  We took part only in the assault in Bloemspruit.  We didn't take part in the kidnapping.

MR VISSER: Did Mr Motsamai participate in the assault on Mr White Mohapi?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Yes, he took part in the assault.

MR VISSER: Yes, with hammers and crowbars?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

MR VISSER: When you were told to monitor Mr White Mohapi, you have told us - let me rather ask you - was that in 1986 or was that in 1985?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: It is between 1985 and 1986, I don't remember well.  That is why I gave those two years.  It happened around 1985 and 1986, it is between those two years.	It might be in 1986 or in 1985, I don't remember the exact date or the exact year.

MR VISSER: Were you supposed to monitor him as an informer or as a policeman after you had already become a policeman?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I returned to school to complete my standard 10.  I joined the Police Force when I was doing standard 8, then from there I returned to do standard 10.

MR VISSER: Mr Ngo, let me repeat.  Were you tasked to monitor Mr White Mohapi as an informer or as a member of the police?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I started to monitor him whilst I was with him at school.  But when the kidnapping took place, I was a policeman.

MR VISSER: Is it correct that you finished school at the end of 1985?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And is it also correct that after the attack on you by Mr White Mohapi and Billy and the others, it was arranged that you went to school in Ladybrand?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

MR VISSER: Can you remember from what month that happened?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I don't remember well.

MR VISSER: Is it further correct that you then indicated that you wish to become a policeman and that in fact took the oath as a Constable, as a student Constable I think is what they call it, on the 11th of March 1986?   Mr Chairman, I can give you the references.
	You will recall that at the last hearing we handed in some documentation which we found in the police file, which we obtained from Pretoria. If you look at bundle C, I am sorry B, for bravo, at page 65, you will see here Record of Service, signed by Mr Ngo, taking the oath and his accession to office on appointment and enrolment is what they call it, is dated 11 March 1986, which is at the bottom over the word Bloemfontein.  I don't know whether you can find that at page 65 of the bundle B.
	And there is a photograph  in  the right hand top corner of Mr Ngo.  If you turn the page Mr Chairman, to page 66, you will see a repetition of that date, the top left hand column and you will see where he was placed, his station was and I am going to put those questions to him right now.
	Is it correct that after you became a student-Constable, you were placed at Batu police station, immediately on the 11th of March 1986?  Would you agree that that would be correct?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: No, I was never stationed at Batu police station.

MR VISSER: I see, so the record is wrong in that respect?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I want to explain to the Commission what happened.

MR VISSER: Please go ahead if you want to explain something.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I was accepted in the Police Force.  My pay-point was at Batu location, Batu police station.  My pay-point was at Batu police station, but accommodation was at barracks at Batu police station.  I was taken to Headquarters at Fountain in Bloemfontein.  In other words, Batu police station I got there when I go to sleep or when I was going to collect my salary.  If they are able to give you a record as to whether when was I accepted to the police station, they would - let them look for a duty book which would explain to the Truth Commission as to whether to whom did I report at the police station and under which officer and which branch.
	Which will prove to the Truth Commission as to whether I was working at Batu police station or not.  I was at Fountain, that is all I can tell to the Commission, I never worked at Batu police station.  It was only used as a base for my accommodation and my pay-point.  Even if you can take me to the policemen in Batu police station, they would tell you that I was never, I have never worked there.

MR VISSER: Mr Ngo, can I now complete what I was going to put to you.   You were stationed at Batu police station and you were detailed to assist the Security Branch in Bloemfontein in pointing out political activists who posed a danger to society, is that correct?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I was never told to assist, I was told that I was working with the police.  I started working with them up to the time when I was sent to police training college.

MR VISSER: Is it not true that information was received that you maybe in danger and that you were then transferred to Ladybrand in June, on the 19th of June 1986?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: The reason which made me to be in Ladybrand is that I was a student.  That time I was not yet undergone police training, so in that way I was given a gun which is 7.5 with 25 bullets.
	I shot at Kwaggafontein, after using that gun there Captain Swart said because I was, I didn't have experience to use the gun and working among this kind of people, then that is why I was transferred to Ladybrand, that I should not be amongst political activists which would cause me that every weekend I would use the gun.	That is why I was transferred to Ladybrand.