Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] Amnesty Committee, comprising of myself as Chairman and on my right, Advocate Chris de Jager SC, and on my left Advocate Leah  Gcabashe.  
	We are met to consider applications for amnesty by Joel Mokoena, Masoba van Rooyen, Abram Maumakwe, Stephen van Rooyen, Gustaff Morupisi, and Butamnuel Selefe.
	Are we ready?

MR STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, we're ready to start.

MR KOOPEDI: I confirm that we are ready to start Mr Chairman.	 As the Commission pleases.  The first applicant is sitting before this Commission.  The procedure to have him sworn in, should I take care of that?

CHAIRPERSON: I think it appropriate that I should ask him to do that.  Will you ask him to stand please.

JOEL BOYKI MARAPISI MOKOENA: (s.u.o.)

MR KOOPEDI: We will then proceed, Chairperson.
	Would you state your full names for the record?

MR MOKOENA: Joel Boyki Marapisi Mokoena.

MR KOOPEDI: Where is your home?

MR MOKOENA: Kutsaong township.

MR KOOPEDI: Where do you stay now?

MR MOKOENA: Presently I'm serving a sentence at Potchefstroom Correctional Services.

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Chairman, I've just been warned by the technicians here that the applicant has to raise his voice.  I will ask him to raise his voice so that he can be properly heard.
	You were saying where you live at the moment.

MR MOKOENA: Presently I'm serving a sentence at Potchefstroom Correctional Services.

MR KOOPEDI: When and where were you convicted?

MR MOKOENA: I was convicted on the 19th of June 1992, at the Rand Supreme Court in Johannesburg.

MR KOOPEDI: What was the sentence.

MR MOKOENA: The sentence imposed was 13 years imprisonment.

MR KOOPEDI: For what offence or offences?

MR MOKOENA: For two counts of murder.

MR KOOPEDI: Is it correct that you have applied for amnesty?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, it's correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Is it also correct that the amnesty applied for relates to those two convictions?

MR MOKOENA: That is correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Would you for the record's sake state who the victims were, the people who died?

MR MOKOENA: The victims or the people who died were the members of the criminal gang who were terrorising the community at the time.  Their names are KK Nxaku and Boetie Mafino Sedisa.

MR KOOPEDI: Now is it correct, as I've seen in your application for amnesty, that you were a member of the ANC Youth League and the SDU?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, it's correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Whereabout was this, which branch?

MR MOKOENA: At Kutsaong, Carltonville branch.

MR KOOPEDI: Now from your amnesty application you refer to the fact that this was an era where the community was being terrorised by gangsterism.  Would you for the purposes of this sitting, explain to this Honourable Commission what were the deeds of the deceased or the gangsterism rather?

MR MOKOENA: Actually it was during the time when our township was run by gangsters and thugerism.  Crime was the order of the day, violence, killing, and the day to day killings, to mostly the supporters, the followers and the ANC Youth League members during that time.
	The deceased and other members of their gang were a gang that was terrorising the community, ranking from their senseless attacks and the stabbings mostly to the African National Congress Youth League.

MR KOOPEDI: Is there a particular reason, that is if you know, why these people would mostly target members of the ANC Youth League?

MR MOKOENA: Personally I didn't have any idea why their actions were related to the members of the ANC Youth League, but to my concern that time, they were victimising those who were in favour of delivering what was expected from the ANC Youth League or the ANC in general, because mostly the victims of the very same gang were the members, the followers and the community at large.

MR KOOPEDI: Would you explain what this terrorism was, what exactly did they do, and if you are in a position to do so, perhaps mention incidents?

MR MOKOENA: In most cases the gang activists were, the attacks, they were mostly dealing with attacking the people, mostly the ANC Youth League.  Like they have done in the past.  Starting in the late 1989, when one of the them KUSCO, being Kutsaong Student Congress member was stabbed to death by the very same criminal gang.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the name of the person?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you give us the name of the person?

MR MOKOENA: The name of my fellow comrade who died at that time was Mr Lucas Manxgane Bodibe.

CHAIRPERSON: Hold it.

MR KOOPEDI: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: Lucas Manxgane?

MR MOKOENA: Manxgane Bodibe, the surname is Bodibe.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that B-U-T-I-L-E?

MR MOKOENA: B-O-D-I-B-E.

CHAIRPERSON: And when was he attacked?

MR MOKOENA: He was attacked during the holidays of the September month in 1989, during the school holidays of September month in 1989.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

MR KOOPEDI: As it pleases you Mr Chairman.
	Now I want you to get the events leading up to the cause of your conviction, is there anything that was done by the gangsters, or in particular the deceased?

MR MOKOENA: Of course yes.  1991 was of course a year of victimisation if I may say so, to all the members of the ANC Youth League and the entire community in Block 7 where I was staying.
	January month of that year, one of the comrades was killed by what is believed to be the third force activities or the hit squad activities.
	Then in April month during the long-weekend of Good Friday, the then General Secretary of the ANC Youth League, Mr Cassius Mahuma, was held at gunpoint by the deceased and some other members of the gang.  He was searched, intimidated and accused of being one of the comrades.
	In August month, the very same year of 1991, the family of Matsaba were on their way to the doctor when the deceased and other members of their criminal gang attacked the car on its driveway to the doctor.  The car was smashed by the throwing of stones, the house was smashed by throwing of stones, and as a result of that one of the family members sustained injuries from head to body.  Then as the car was on its way to the doctor for the child illness, the young boy passed away the very same night.  	It was hardly a month when Mr John Mokome was stabbed critically on the 7th of September 1991 ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Koopedi, could he go a little bit slower, it's difficult to write down what he is saying because it's not exactly what has been recorded already.  We have got to write it down, so I will appreciate it if he could go a little bit slower.

MR KOOPEDI: As it pleases you Honourable Commissioner.  We have noted that, we will try and be a little slower.

MR MOKOENA: Can I start all over again?

CHAIRPERSON: You were saying that Mr John Mokome was attacked in September, was it?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, it was on the night of the 7th of September 1991, when Mr Mokome was attacked by the deceased and other members of their criminal gang, and it is when all of us as the members of the African National Congress Youth League at Block 7, gathered to trace or follow the information that can help us to get or to find those who were responsible for the attack.
	In all the attacks I've given to the Commission, all the matters have been reported to the police and no-one was held responsible for whatever attack and whatever damage to property which were persuaded by the gang that the deceased and other gang members ...[intervention]

MR KOOPEDI: Now you're saying at this stage that there were other incidents that had occurred which you believed related to this gang, which were reported to the police but there hasn't been any action?

MR MOKOENA: Of course yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Now for the purpose of our understanding here, and probably for the Honourable Committee Members, would you be able to tell what made you think that the deceased people, or rather their gang was responsible for the number of things you've mentioned?  What was the link?