Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-08-03

DR TSOTSI: So it's not correct that you say that as far as you know from your knowledge that a car containing the explosives was placed near the gates at Ellis Park and the timing was set?  Of your own knowledge unless you heard that from somebody else?

AGGIE SHOKE: I don't understand your question Sir?

DR TSOTSI: The question is simple.  Were you present when the car containing the explosives was placed outside Ellis Park?

AGGIE SHOKE: I was not present.

DR TSOTSI: So why then do you say in your statement that the car was in fact placed near the gates of Ellis Park?  It says he was not present.

AGGIE SHOKE: I was part and parcel of the people who went to place the bomb but I did not reach the final place where the bomb was planted.

DR TSOTSI: You see the evidence says that the bomb was not placed at the gates ...[inaudible] it was a distance away but in your statement you say it was at the gates?

CHAIRPERSON: The passage that has been read to you is that from paragraph 9(a)i of your application for amnesty - do you agree - under the heading "Car Bomb at Ellis Park 1988" and is it absolutely identical with the same paragraph in your co-applicants application at page 8?

AGGIE SHOKE: Yes, they are.

CHAIRPERSON: Who filled in the applications for you?

AGGIE SHOKE: If I'm not mistaken it was Patience.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Patience?

AGGIE SHOKE: She is our consultant.

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chair maybe I can explain.  She works at the ANC Truth Desk.

CHAIRPERSON: One point I think I would like to ask you about.  Yes, you talked about the message to the white people or a message to the whites, do you remember that, that is the purpose of the bomb?

AGGIE SHOKE: I remember that.

CHAIRPERSON: By that did you mean a message to those people who were governing the country at the time?

AGGIE SHOKE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Landman do you have any further evidence?

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chairman I don't have any further evidence, I just want to place on record that we do intend relying upon the contents of the submissions made by the ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not trying to bring you to an end at the moment, I merely as you may recollect Mr Prior said that the victims might wish to make a statement and if they could do so today it would be convenient that one of them has come from a long way away, so I merely thought if you're not calling any further evidence at this stage could we dispose of that now?

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chairman I can confirm we will not going to be calling any more evidence at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior you can now call the victims who wish to come forward and make statements.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I might indicate that because of the development of the other persons appearing tomorrow, both victims have said that they would remain in attendance but notwithstanding that I think we should use the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Do they wish to do so now or would they rather do it when they've heard all the evidence regarding the applicants.  It may be that tomorrow they have a somewhat different approach to the matter.  It would be fairer to them to make any statement they wish to after the matter has been concluded.  In the light of the understanding, I will not call it agreement, about a possible appearance tomorrow, it would seem it would be convenient to take the adjournment at this stage and we consider our position at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning if that suits you Mr Landman?

MR LANDMAN: ...[inaudible]

ADV PRIOR: Yes that would be a prudent course to adopt.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now adjourn and I hope that we will be able to commence at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMMITTEE ADJOURNS