Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-01

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: The defence force headquarters in the Far Northern Command was in Pietersburg but it also had branches elsewhere in the area and by virtue of the circumstances they concentrated mainly on the border areas adjoining the Northern States.

ADV DE JAGER: I apologise Mr Visser for interrupting you. Mr van der Merwe is it so that your area bordered three different countries?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: That is so.

ADV DE JAGER: Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Thank you.

ADV VISSER: Is it true that the security branch cooperated with the defence force regarding the exchange of information  and, well perhaps you can elaborate on that?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: We were very reliant on each other, the defence force and the police with their various divisions and branches had their own specific functions and line functions but as far as internal security was concerned, it was essential that we had to have close cooperation, exchange intelligence and where necessary also cooperate in performing physical operations.

ADV VISSER: And they also needed you, for instance if they apprehended an infiltrator, what would they do with them?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes because they didn't have executive powers and we did, they would then hand over such a person to us and we process the person through the normal channels and the courts and so forth.

ADV VISSER: Yes the Committee is well aware of the fact that there are various divisions in the police and we know that there was a counter-insurgency unit in the South African Police.  It was referred to as TIN?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Correct.

ADV VISSER: Now was TIN active in your area?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes there were a couple of TIN bases.  They weren't always static and the numbers varied, but yes they were present.

ADV VISSER: And what were they tasked to do?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: They also dealt with the infiltration of trained terrorists.

ADV VISSER: Chairperson I don't want to go into a great deal of detail here, you've heard a lot about joint management systems, I don't want to place all that evidence in front of you again.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we adjourn at this stage or are you..?

ADV VISSER: Yes Mr Chairman, yes indeed.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Merwe, I see in your documents that you associate yourself with what Mr Erwee said in his application.  Is that correct?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: It is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't want to ask any questions about that.  I expect that you have read Mr Erwee's application and read his statements.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes I have done that.

CHAIRPERSON: Because if you haven't done so then you must please ensure that you do that during the tea adjournment because there is a likelihood that we will ask you questions arising from what Mr Erwee says in his application because you testified before him.

ADV VISSER: May I just ask Chairperson in respect of Mr Erwee's statement, will that deal with the incident itself?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes that as well and also regarding the instruction.

ADV VISSER: Yes I follow.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman I've spoken to my learned friend. During the tea adjournment I had the opportunity of speaking to representatives of the families, the victims families who are present and they have indicated that there will be a representative of each family until the end of the proceedings.  I raised that because as to whether or not they'd also indicated to me that in so far as the first applicant is concerned, who has already testified, that there are no questions that they would like  to put to him.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are saying that they elect to testify after everyone else shall have given evidence, each of the applicants, even if that would be Thursday of Friday morning for example.

MR BLACK: That's what they tell me.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Visser!

ADV VISSER: Mr van der Merwe you are still under oath, you understand it?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: (s.u.o.)

ADV VISSER: We came to the point in the evidence where I want to ask you which structures or systems were in place in 1986 to administer the security actions.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson we had the Joint Management Centre.  We had it in the Far North.  It was placed in the headquarters of the Regional Commander in Town and it consisted of the Joint Management System.  We had the Security Committee and on a regular basis we got together with the defence force and other structures to discuss the situation on the ground and also to plan.

ADV VISSER: And who did you have sitting on the joint management system on behalf of the security?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I represented them.

ADV VISSER: Mr van der Merwe there was evidence before another committee of the Amnesty Committee that in 1986 there was a general instruction given that had as a result that the security branch had to proceed into ordinary guerilla warfare. Are you aware of this?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: No not at all.

ADV VISSER: Were any instructions given to you as commander of Far North Security Branch that would have implied that you would have the right to eliminate people without following the legal process.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: No not at all.

ADV VISSER: And if such an instruction were given would you have accepted it orally?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: No it would have been out of order.  No.

ADV VISSER: Where did you usually get your instructions that you had to comply with as a member of the Security Branch.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson the procedure was as such that the security branch and that goes for all the security branches in the country.  We got instructions from the head office, the Security Branch head office. We received written instructions and briefings.

ADV VISSER: Was this something that you got regularly or seldom, what was the volume of this.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes large volumes, sometimes quite a few times per week through the post, quite a bit of post which included statements of MK's who have been arrested and we studied this so that we could see what their techniques were.

ADV VISSER: And what was the role that the gathering of information that you gathered.. Let me rephrase.  If you gathered any information that pointed to the fact that there was an insurgence of people who could commit violent acts, what would you do with the information?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: It was given in a report in code form to Head Office.

ADV VISSER: And because of this information were there any instructions given to you that was a result of information that you gave?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: It would be very difficult for me to pin point it. We had on many occasions given information reports to Head Office based on information that we got here and what was then also planned for the future.

ADV VISSER: So for medium and long term planning, you say that information was very important?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes.

ADV VISSER: Chairperson if we now can come to the facts of the current case.  Just to put your case in order, you weren't involved on the ground relating to this particular incident, this operation, but if I understand you correctly, it was with planning and then also giving orders.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson I was in my office most of the time.  There was a lot of administrative work in this region and from the office by means of conferences with my men at the branches as well as in my office, I was busy with that mostly and I also visited the region.