Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I want to thank the Reverend Peter Roberts for his wonderful prayer and support for the witnesses because they need the strength.  All, I greet you all in the name of our Lord and at this moment I want to welcome the following groupings to this hearing.  Is there any government officials who are here?  We want to extend our welcome.  We're just sorry that the Premier could not be here but he has sent his apology that he is here in spirit but physically he's overseas.  We also want to extend our welcome to the NGOs who are going to be here this morning, faith groupings, that is, churches and other religious faiths who are here, the media and the press, the witnesses and their families and all those people who come from the community to support them.  We also want to welcome our translators who are seated there behind that corner and having said so I want to say that there are these things which are here which should be used by those people who don't understand, here the interpretation, there you have got some channels.  If you set that thing.  If it says channel 1, it means it is Afrikaans.  If it is channel 2, it means that it is English and in channel 3 we get Lesotho, Zulu and Xhosa with these things.  They're going to help you so that if we speak English the translator will be doing it and you can hear in your own language and you'll be helped by people if you don't know how to operate it.  And these are the second hearings in the Free State.  You remember that some time back ago we had the hearings in Bloemfontein and now we're having the second hearings in the Free State.   This is the process we shall be following.  Whenever we finish a session, when we have to move out it means that it will be the witnesses first will move out and when they move out we all stand and we remain silent and quiet to give them the dignity and to give this affair the dignity and again when they come in, if we are seated, we stand also to support them in whatever they want to do.  Please observe that process.  Here we came with the statement-takers, that is to say if there are any people who have not submitted their names as witnesses or victims to be, we came here with statement-takers.  You can see the statement-takers and so you tell them your story.  They are here with us.  Now, I want to introduce the panel which is with me here.  On the ... (inaudible) ... right is Professor Simangele Magwaza and immediately to my right is Mr Mdu Dlamini and on my left is Mrs Regina Gcabashe.  This one is quite liked because she is Sotho speaking.  In fact she'll be our chaplain if we don't understand some of the things because the three of us are Zulu speaking and she's bilingual.  She speaks Sotho and Zulu.  She'll be helping us as we go with the business.  Now I shall ask the briefers to help us by bringing forward the first witness.  I forgot to introduce myself.  I'm Dr Mgojo from Durban.  Also among us here from our Truth and Reconciliation staff, we've got the co-ordinators, we've got the Free State co-ordinator who has just been co-ordinating all the things, Moses Pitso(?), which means that if you've got some problems, you need to be getting in touch with him.  And here in Free State too we've got Reverend Bosman, the one who is the briefer and we have  got our own briefers from Natal and other staff member, logistics, etcetera.  So you are well cared for if you've got some problems.
EXCHANGE OF GREETINGS BETWEEN CHAIRMAN AND WITNESS

CHAIRPERSON: Your name is Matumo Josephina Chaka?

MRS CHAKA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us where you live Josephina?

MRS CHAKA: In stay in Tabong.  2957 is my house number.

CHAIRPERSON: You live in 2957 Massa Street?

MRS CHAKA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: In Tabong.

MR CHAKA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: By the way, Tabong is here in Welkom?

MRS CHAKA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm just checking the days of your birth if they correct.   Is it true that you were born on the 5th June 1938?

MRS CHAKA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Before we come to the real thing you are about here or your story, can you just give us just a short picture about your family.  That is to say, do you have children?  How many are they, etcetera.

MRS CHAKA: I have only three daughters and they are married.

CHAIRPERSON: Can somebody please help me in translating back into English or Zulu.  Just give me the short background of your family.

MRS CHAKA: I have three childreN.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, start again, thank you.  Sorry.

MRS CHAKA: I have three daughters and we are not happy  /in the
in the family because I'm on my own.  I don't have a husband.

CHAIRPERSON: Just take your time please.  Relax take your time.  Do you have the children.

MRS CHAKA: Yes, three of them.

CHAIRPERSON: How old are they?

MRS CHAKA: The other one was born in 1961 and the other one is 1966 and the other one was born in 1954.  I'm referring to the ones that are still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe before we go to the story now, because this is what you are going to tell, we need to take an oath so that what you do must be under oath.  Can you stand to take an oath.

MATUMO JOSEPHINA CHAKA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Now, Mama Josephina, we come to the story now.  Can you tell us what happened on the 24th February 1985?

WITNESS:   (Transcriber's note:  Channel used for translation not functioning properly.  Interpreter barely audible)  On the 24th of February in 1985 my son left home.  Some old men ... (inaudible) ... and he wanted to see what was happening and he went to Themba and he was shot by a certain gentleman called  ... (inaudible).  After he was shot, I went to the place to see what happened and I discovered that he was already dead.  I spent my whole time at the scene ... (inaudible) ... after him, till 11 o'clock at night.  Nobody was helping me at all.  And I went back home.  On the day of the funeral - I don't know  ... (inaudible) ... carry on, Sir.  On the day of the funeral, it was a  Saturday ... (inaudible) ... came.  He was a police ... (inaudible) ... and he didn't want us to bury our son on Saturday.  He said we should bury him on Monday because he was involved in politics.  And he said I should write the number of people that will attend the funeral.  He said only 18(?) people should attend the funeral.  I said there is not such ... (inaudible) ... we are not going to allow 18 people to attend the funeral.  He said we are going to shoot if there is a large crowd of people.  I said to him, "You'd better shoot me because the people will be attending the funeral."   (Inaudible) ... and I said to him you ... (inaudible) ... belongs to one person.  We are all human beings and then you can also attend the funeral if you want to.  And then he didn't want to listen to me.  He left.  (Inaudible) ... didn't allow us to get the on Saturday.  He said to me he will only release the corpse on Monday.  And he said to me, "You are not going to get the body at our home."  He will only conduct the ceremony at the cemetery.  He said, "I'm not going to give you permission at all."  And I required him to give me an explanation.  He said, "Listen here, there are political activists around the township and I don't want this funeral to be politically motivated."  He said, "They will be chanting slogans and ... (inaudible) ... I do not want the funeral to be in that way."  Then I said to him, "I don't know what are you saying.  I just want my son.  I want to bury him."  And then he ... (inaudible) ... we never went home.  I didn't know what to do.  That is why I am appearing before the Commission.  I see what ... (inaudible) ... did to me was very unjust.  He was not alone.  He was  together with his group and they ... (inaudible) ... the youth of this country.  We couldn't walk free ... (inaudible) ...