Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman before we continue, Mrs Cambanis asked me to just extend her apology. During the adjournment she was called to the airport to pick up victims. However whatever is going to be said will be recorded and passed to her. So she is not at a disadvantage.

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson and the next applicant is number 10 Petrus Paulus Steyn. That is the person in the witness stand. Thank you Chairperson. The application appears on page 172 to 186 and also on page 214 to 223. Thank you Chairperson.

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: (sworn states)

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Steyn you were arrested and prosecuted in the High Court together with the other applicants with regards to the pipe bomb explosions, that is in Bloed Street Western area and Randfontein. And you were found guilty on these charges and sentenced to 21 years imprisonment because of murder, attempted murder and deliberate damage of property and the possession of explosives. Do you confirm that?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: That is correct Chairperson, except that I wasn't arrested, I gave myself up.

MR PRINSLOO: Let me just get this right, you gave yourself in?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: That is correct. I gave myself up to the police.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Steyn now you are applying for amnesty for these offences which I have just talked about?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Steyn when you moved up to Ventersdorp, it is on page 182, it is actually page 181 and it carries on to page 182 it is paragraph 9. Did you take your family with you or not?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Not at the beginning Chairperson. I left on my own to Ventersdorp and afterwards I arrived at head office.  I first wanted to go and summarise the whole situation and discuss it because I did not receive the call-up instruction very clearly.
	When I arrived at Ventersdorp Brigadier Leon van der Merwe and Major Johan Smit I found them there at head office. I explained to them what my situation was and told them that I would like to see my commander Abe Fourie and there they told me that it is impossible, I cannot go and see him because they are on a farm outside of Ventersdorp and if I join them I would not be able to leave that farm again.

MR PRINSLOO: Why would you not be able to leave again Mr Steyn?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Because apparently the place they were at they told me that a few people was to know about that place.  It was quite a secretive place and the women and children and a certain group of people I do not know who exactly was gathered there but that is what they told me and that I cannot go there, and if I wanted to go there at that stage I would have to stay there.  I would not be able to leave that place.  I assumed after a while that this was the farm of, what's his name, the accused who refuses to appear in front of the Committee.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Barnard?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: That is correct, it was on his farm.

MR PRINSLOO: And your wife and children what happened to them?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: They told me that they recommend me to go and fetch them and my wife at that stage, my children were too small, told me that she was not happy with the situation because you can't just leave everything behind without any clarity and just move up somewhere. And there they persuaded me that I must go back to go and fetch my wife and children.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you do that?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: I did that after they made certain promises to me.

MR PRINSLOO: Who made the promises?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: The promises came from both Major Johan Smit and Brigadier Leon van der Merwe.   The promises said that I do not have to be worried about food if we do not have food, I do not have to worry about money either and also I do not have to worry about my job. At that stage I was working in Brakpan, Western Platinum Refinery and I had a permanent post there.

MR PRINSLOO: What did you do then?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: At that stage I was on sick leave so I moved up or rather I went to go and fetch my wife and I convinced her which was quite difficult, but eventually I did convince her that we must go together. Also after they told me that they intercepted a fax of the Ystergarde which said that if they found any Ystergarde anywhere he will be eliminated, he will be killed.

MR PRINSLOO: So did you go to Ventersdorp with your family?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: I went back Friday, I think it was the 22nd. I returned that day to Ventersdorp together with my possessions, the ones I could manage to bring with me. And my smallholding I left it just like that. I locked it up and I left some of my possessions were still there because I couldn't bring it with me and the Friday morning very early I left and around seven or eight o'clock I arrived at Ventersdorp.

MR PRINSLOO: Did your wife accompany you then?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And your children?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Yes the children were with us as well.

MR PRINSLOO: And where did your wife and children go? Where were they taken?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: We arrived at head office, at that stage the people at head office were so busy and many people were arriving at head office and as it is at any office they were trying to put things right for the day's tasks and the first things which was given to us they gave me a form which I had to complete, similar to what you would fill in when you go on a border operation. You would put down your religious connections, etc and your particulars, the names of the next-of-kin.
	I did that and after that, I am not dead sure but somebody arrived there from the farm and at a later time that day we went to the farm, this is the farm of Cliff Barnard.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Steyn we have already heard evidence that you, Mr Nel and Mr Gert Fourie the three of you went to Pretoria with the pipe bombs. is that correct?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And can you tell the Committee what happened in Pretoria, what did you do that day with regards to the pipe bombs?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Chairperson I do not know where to start. Can I start at Pretoria itself?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes begin with what happened in Pretoria.

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: When we arrived in Pretoria after, I do not know Pretoria well not even today. I do not know how to get in and out of Pretoria but the other applicant, Mr Jaco Nel according to myself knew Pretoria very well and when we arrived in Pretoria we went to certain places, amongst others we went to a taxi rank.
	There was a lot of police in the vicinity and he said that we cannot then detonate this pipe bomb in that vicinity because we will definitely be arrested if we happen to do that.   Afterwards we went to several other places. I am not sure, I do not know Pretoria very well, I know it badly.

MR PRINSLOO: Which place did you go to? What is this place you went to or places? Did I hear you incorrectly did you say a place or places?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Places amongst others I am not sure. We went to another taxi rank, I am not sure, there were a lot of buses and things there but in that vicinity there was also a lot of police and there were a lot of police activities.  Once again we returned to the first taxi rank. I do not know exactly where it was, the circumstances were basically the same.  Then he recommended - well actually together we decided that we would not be able to complete that mission then because as soon as we throw the bomb we would be arrested.

MR PRINSLOO: Who of you three was the senior?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: The applicant who has just spoken before, Mr Jaco Nel. His rank was that of Captain.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you his subordinate?

PETRUS PAULUS STEYN: Yes I was a lieutenant in the Ystergarde and the other applicant who will still appear, Gert Fourie was also a Lieutenant.

MR PRINSLOO: Continue?