Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-16

UNKNOWN: I am Netiwe the daughter of Makalima.  I was EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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born in Insoma in Kwilibram.  I started schooling in Insomo and from lower primary I went to Tsongo and then I went on to the primary school. I am the wife of Mfeti who disappeared. We just met when we were busy travelling and there came a time that we married. It was in 1969.  We first married in a traditional way and we signed the papers after some time, after he was released from detention in 1977. We have two children, a girl and a boy.  Thank you.

MR NTSEBEZA: People do not know who Phindile is. Tell us who Phindile is.  Where was he born?

UNKNOWN: Phindile was born in Nqamakwe at Mpukane.  There were three at their home.  He was the second born.

MR NTSEBEZA: Where did you meet? Did you meet at Nqamakwe or at school?

UNKNOWN: I was in Port Elizabeth because I used to visit  my family members in Port Elizabeth.

MR NTSEBEZA: When married traditionally, where did this happen, when did this happen.

UNKNOWN: It was in 1970 but we signed in 1977.

MR NTSEBEZA: Where were you when you traditionally married?

UNKNOWN: I went to him in Gauteng.

MR NTSEBEZA: Was he working in Gauteng?

UNKNOWN: After leaving school where he was studying he went to Gauteng and then he moved from firm to firm because he wasn't really associated with the treatment. He went to work at Race Relations.  From there...(intervention)

MR NTSEBEZA: When did he start working at race relations?

UNKNOWN: I can't remember the year very well, it's between '69 and '70.

MR NTSEBEZA: What happened thereafter?
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UNKNOWN: He went further to work at the Union, they were organising the workers, they called it Industrial Aid Society.

MR NTSEBEZA: Do you remember the year at which he was in the society?

UNKNOWN: The time he worked at Race Relations they were organising people, workers but he stopped and started working in 1973 when he was together with Jeannette Tetesi, Bennie Finerhof, Sipho Qubeka and the others.  This Finerhof is today at COSATU.

MR NTSEBEZA: Benny Finerhof, is he a member of COSATU?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now it is understood that from Gauteng to Swaziland, when he was on his way from Gauteng to
Swaziland, what did he say?

UNKNOWN: He was very secretive.  The reason for that, he said is that he doesn't want the two of us to be involved.  If it happens that he dies, the children have to be with someone.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did you know at the times when he was going to Swaziland that he was in the struggle?

UNKNOWN: Yes I knew.

MR NTSEBEZA: During his stay in Swaziland, who did he meet? Do you have any idea?

UNKNOWN: The very person I'm sure of is his cousin Thabo.

MR NTSEBEZA: This Thabo Mbeki, you say it's his cousin, is it the First Deputy President of this country?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Was he visiting them?

UNKNOWN: Yes.
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MR NTSEBEZA: Didn't he land in trouble this time?

UNKNOWN: Yes he was in trouble at times.  When he was detained I was really in trouble.  I made an application to go and see him.  Questions were raised.  Things like boarding the plane, and then I just decided to say that I don't know where he was headed to, and I told them that I will never leave my husband to live in the house not  knowing where he was going to.  I told the police that my culture does not allow me to question and question my husband.

MR NTSEBEZA: I understand that. The husband in Xhosa families is not interrogated.

UNKNOWN: Yes you are right.  Now on his return he was detained.

MR NTSEBEZA: Do you remember the year?

UNKNOWN: You know, as he was detained now and then, he was detained on the 25th of May 1977 and then was released, excuse me please, I forgot the date, it was 17 May 1976 and then he was released 17 May 1977.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now during this time things happened at Sowetho.  Was he still inside?

UNKNOWN: Yes he was.

MR NTSEBEZA: On his release, was he released to go out or was he restricted?

UNKNOWN: No he was restricted under house arrest.  Can I please explain this?  After being released from the prison, I didn't know where he was, he was at John Vorster and then he was at Kompol, I used to take him clothes, but
we couldn't find him at Kompol, they would look in the register and tell me that he has been referred back to John Vorster.  There was a time when I was now seriously sure EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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that he has been killed.  I went to Jeannette Kettes because she was his best friend.  Together with John Klempenner, I gave them the statement, they took the statement to Hellen Suzman.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who is this John Klempenner, is he in the South African Racial Relations, even during that time, was he in that organisation?

UNKNOWN: No he was in the Financial Mail.

MR NTSEBEZA: John Klempenner met with Helen Suzman?

UNKNOWN: Helen Suzman took this matter to Chibuka, they decided that they should be charged or be released immediately.  Phindile on his return from prison, Jean said must stay in the house. "There's a paper here that I want to show you, you must read it."

MR NTSEBEZA: Can you please read that paper for the people, they should hear?
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"I am 40310017049 Nchlongu Section Katlehong...(indistinct). Notice in terms of Section 10(1) of the Internal Security Act, 1950 Act 44 of 1950. Whereas there is enforced against you a prohibition under Section 9(1) of the Internal Security Act 1950 by way of a notice which is  addressed and delivered or tendered to you, I James Thomas Kruger Minister of Justice hereby, in terms of Section 10(1) of the said Act order you for a period commencing on the date on which this notice is delivered or tendered to you and requiring you, and expiring on 31 May 1982, to report to the officer in charge of the Katlehong
 Police Station ...(indistinct) on every Monday 
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between 6 o'clock  and 18H00, provided that if such Monday falls on a public holiday you shall report on the following day not being a public holiday. Given under my hand at Cape Town, this 13th day of May 1977.  J Kruger, Minister of Justice."

MR NTSEBEZA: That restricted him in the family?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: No would you like the Commission to keep that piece of paper as evidence?

UNKNOWN: Yes I'd appreciate that, thank you.

MR NTSEBEZA: If I read that paper, it said he would stay under house arrest for five years.  Now did he stay in
Katlehong for those years?

UNKNOWN: No not all the years.

MR NTSEBEZA: In 1978, was he removed to Transkei?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Has he been fired or pushed?

UNKNOWN: No they said, if he wants to go to South Africa he can use a visa.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now let us start, the time when he was chased away, what did they say about you and your children?

UNKNOWN: They started with him that morning and I was busy preparing myself to go to work.  When this was still happening I went to work because the key to the safe was with me.  Two black policemen were staying at my place with no movement t all.  I told them that I'm going to work.  They said, "No you have to stay here and pack your things". I said to them, "No ways, I cannot do that". I went outside because our toilets were outside, I went into the toilet and I came up with a plan.  I came straight to the kitchen door
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and went outside and then I jumped next door.

MR NTSEBEZA: Where were the children during that time?

UNKNOWN: They were very small and I just left them behind with no breakfast at all.

MR NTSEBEZA: How did they transport him to Transkei?

UNKNOWN: While our belongs were packed, he was fetched to have a look on while they were packing his clothes.  The children and I were in the cells in Germiston.