Special Hearings — Armed Forces Hearings — 1997-10-09

MAJ CRAFFORD: I want to say I'm surprised, I make this deduction when I look at the date stamps on these documents. Did these date from 28 August this year? I question the timing, that it has come to the Commission's attention at such a late stage.  I was very happy to receive these documents.  They give me and other amnesty applicants, it supports us that from higher up, from government level that permission has been given to the security forces to murder high profile activists or to use your words, to eliminate them.  This is as much as I want to say about these documents.

MR DU PLESSIS: Major Crafford, you were also intimately involved during the appearances of Cronje, Hechter, van Vuuren, Venter and Mentz who were the first Security policemen who testified before the Amnesty Committee.  You were also present during consultations and you are aware of the problems which existed around the absence of documents regarding instructions or orders form higher up.  Is that correct?

MAJ CRAFFORD: That is correct.

MR DU PLESSIS: Are you of the opinion that if these documents had been available during those interviews it would have been much easier for those amnesty applicants?

MAJ CRAFFORD: Very definitely Mr Chairperson.

MR DU PLESSIS: Do you want to comment at all about the fact that commanding officers and other persons in positions above yourself,  Brigadier Cronje and such like, at the time when that evidence was presented, that they denied giving any such instructions or orders?  Do you want to say anything about that?

MAJ CRAFFORD: The denials by those senior officers are neutralised by these documents. These documents prove that approval was given at high level for illegal operations, covert operations.

MR DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.  Thank you for the opportunity to have dealt with the matter in this way.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr du Plessis.  Mr Visser, do you want to put any questions? Mr Visser did you want to say something before Mr Goosen?  If you could then.

UNKNOWN: Please Mr Chairman, rather just a remark than anything else.  I find myself in a position where I should really cross-examine Major Crafford but I'm not going to do that.  I'm surprised that my learned friend has sought here, with respect, to attempt to boost his amnesty applications in the first place.
 In the second place I'm surprised that my learned friend does not inform you that a full hearing about the alleged orders, instructions given by Brigadier Viktor was held in Benoni before the full Amnesty Committee where Brigadier Viktor gave evidence and he was cross-examined.  Heads of argument have been presented to the Amnesty Committee and we're awaiting the outcome of that issue. I believe that you should be aware of that Mr Chairman.  And may I tell you that the allegations of Cronje et al about this general instruction by Brigadier Viktor has been vigorously denied, with respect and the evidence has been given.

MR DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman may I just respond to that. The only reason why the evidence of Brigadier Cronje and Captain Hechter was placed on record was to make clear in respect of this witness what was told to him when he started working there. That was the only reason.  I was present at that hearing, I cross-examined Brigadier Viktor and if you want to know a little bit more about what he says, and about the effect of my cross-examination, I suggest you read that record. In respect of that there is a dispute about, or Brigadier Viktor disputed to a certain extent, or he tried to dispute the order at the end of the day it came to the effect that he said that it was a suggestion and not an order. But I don't want to go into that detail.  The only reason why I placed that on record was to make clear what Major Crafford was told by Brigadier Cronje and Captain Hechter when he started working at the Security Branch and that was the only intention of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Goosen.

MR GOOSEN: Thank you very much Mr Chairperson.  I don't have much to ask Major Crafford. I think most of the issues that I would have canvassed in any event have been canvassed in evidence thus far.
 But Major Crafford, first let me state I'll ask the question in English, obviously you can answer in Afrikaans if you so choose.  You indicate in your amnesty application that you submitted regular reports about the operations in which you were involved and the activities in which you were involved which were illegal activities. Could you indicate whether those would have been reports submitted in writing or would there have been verbal reports submits about the outcome of those operations?

MAJ CRAFFORD: As far as I can remember these were all oral reports.

MR GOOSEN: Did you at any point receive any rebuke or reprimand or reaction to any of the reports that you would have submitted to your superiors in regard to those operations?

MAJ CRAFFORD: No Mr Chairman.

MR GOOSEN: Could you indicate to whom you would have submitted those reports?

MAJ CRAFFORD: That would have been normally to Cronje.

MR GOOSEN: Do you know of any of your colleagues who would have been involved either with you or to your knowledge in other operations and who submitted reports, who was subjected to either disciplinary action or rebuke in consequence of the information that was conveyed in those reports?

MAJ CRAFFORD: Not as far as my knowledge goes.

MR GOOSEN: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: That brings to a close your testimony unless to the extent that there is something else to be placed on record.  You did indicate to me but was it in relation to this witness or overall?

MR VAN DER HOVEN: Overall Mr Chairperson. Shall I proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: If you could.

MR VAN DER HOVEN: Mr Chairperson, just for the record, van der Hoven...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: If you can just place your name on the record again.

MR VAN DER HOVEN: Van der Hoven is my name.  I just want to record that the remarks I made earlier just after the lunch break this afternoon with regard to the evidence tendered this morning should also be made applicable to the evidence tendered this afternoon.  Thank you, that's all I want to say.

CHAIRPERSON: And that's it. In which event the proceedings today have come to an end, and it remains for me only to thank everybody who has made these hearings today the success that they are, because we've concluded far ahead of time. So they have been quite a successful hearing,
 And now without being facetious, I thank the legal representatives who have been very patient and who have had to put up with some of our unconventional ways of dealing with legal representatives, but it is all in the nature of our understanding of what our duties is. 
 And I thank the witnesses of course for having come and who have facilitated our hearing. These proceedings are adjourned.
HEARING ADJOURNS