Human Rights Violation Hearings — Alexandra — 1996-10-29

MS MKHIZE: Welcome.  It has been a long day.  We decided to take a five minutes break so that we can all stretch.  We hope you will still be alert and be able to share your story without feeling that you have been kept waiting till so late.  We will ask, as it is a tradition, I will first ask you to take an oath and after that one of the commissioners will assist you to lead your evidence.

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: (s.s.)

MS MKHIZE: I am going to ask one of us to help you.  That will be Yasmin Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome you to the Commission today.  You have come to tell us about your son Jacob Mabesela but before you do that tell us a little bit about yourself, how many other children you have and what you are actually doing with your own life at this point in time.

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: I am Mrs Paulina Mabesela. I was working for Steiner company.  My son who is Jacob Mabesela was born on the 11th February 1966.  He was a student at Minerva.  He was a SRC member.  As he was still there a student being a SRC member in 1985 when the state of emergency was declared it was him and the others, they were wanted because they were the SRC members.  They were to be arrested.  It happened in 1985 that he was detained.  He went to Johannesburg prison.  While he was in Johannesburg prison I was not able to see him, to visit him.  When I tried to go
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there we were told that we are not supposed to see them.  They decided to go on a hunger strike.  After that hunger strike he was released in December.  Even though I was unable to see him, when he was released I could see him.  He told me that, he said Mama I don't know how my life is going to be.  I asked him why.  He said his life was so difficult and the police had told him that they are going to kill him after his release.  I said to him what are you going to do about that.  Within a short time - that was June, on the 9th June they left.  I went to a funeral of my brother's child who was killed in the train.  While I was there at the funeral I was surprised to see him coming in - to see his father.  I asked him where is my son, he said I don't want to talk any more.  I asked him what was the reason.  He said my son was dead.  Now we were facing two funerals.  My brother's son and my son also.  (Witness crying).

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama take your time.

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: I asked him what was happening.  They told me that he is dead.  I asked what happened.  I heard that there was a meeting in one of the churches on 9th Avenue.  There was a meeting there in that church.  He was with Benny Kalagala.  He was shot there and he died. I asked myself what am I going to do now.  There was another lady who was pregnant at the time, his girlfriend was three months pregnant at the time.  I asked himself I kept on wondering,  I was so hurt.  At least at the time I was working.  It was so painful, especially when I think about this child.  We didn't have other children.  He was the only child.  We went there.  Before his funeral it was very difficult because the boers were harassing us every day.  Before he died, the police used to come, it was like they were looking
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for a very big giant.  I used to wake up midnight, watch TV or listen to the radio.  One day I saw these boers looking through the window.  I was not staying with my child because he was not staying at home.  He was not staying at home.  He used to come and go.  After that, that was in 1987, in 1987 I suffered from high blood pressure. I was taking treatment in the local clinic of Alexandra.  I used to attend there regularly.  Last year everything got worse, I couldn't work, I was staying at home, I had this grandchild of mine that I was staying with.  I couldn't do anything for my grandchild because I was no longer working, because I was sick.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  Mama, I am going to ask you a few questions just to make sure that I have the story correctly.  Are you able to carry on?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: Yes, I can go on.  I will try.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama, how old was your son at the time that he was shot?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: He was 20 years old.

YASMINE SOOKA: And according to what you said he had spent quite a long time in detention in Johannesburg. How long was that period?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: Approximately six months.  Six months or eight months.

YASMINE SOOKA: He was not charged and brought to trial, he was simply released.

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: He was just released without any trial.  I couldn't understand the reason why.  I don't know whether he was released because he was on hunger strike.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama, were there other boys who were in detention with him that you know?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: Yes, there were other children that he was
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with but I can't remember their names.  That was more painful when he died. He was dead and I could do nothing and the state of emergency was declared when he was supposed to be buried.  There was a limit that only 25 people should attend a funeral.  When we went to the graveyard the police were surrounding the graves and with dogs.  It was very difficult.  Though they had killed him but still there were some restrictions.  (Witness crying).

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama if you are not feeling like carrying on that is okay.  It is up to you.    The one question that I do want to get from you is what date exactly was Jacob killed.

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: It was on the 9th June.

YASMINE SOOKA: And according to what you said in your evidence and in your statement they were having a meeting inside the church, it was a UDF meeting and he was shot at while he was inside the church.  I think that is what I want to get from you.  Is that correct?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: That is correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: How many other people got hurt or killed in the  same shooting?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: He was the only one.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know who did it, was it the police or was it a vigilante group?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: I am not sure but all I know is that he told me that the police are after him, the police are going to kill him.  So I am not sure because I was not around.  Because we could see that it was police, nobody else but police.  Because while we were still sitting in the house they came with rifles and started harassing people, pointing guns at people, hitting the floors with their guns.  They had knobkeries.  When I asked them what is it that they are
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looking for they said they are looking for petrol bombs because my child was toyi-toyiing and my problem now is that I was affected since then, even my eyesight is affected since last year August.

YASMINE SOOKA: You did not recognise any of the policemen who came to your house?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: The people that I know was Alex and Mtebi, they came during the funeral.  They came during the funeral.  Mtebi and Alex.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was there a restriction on the night vigil as well or were you allowed to carry that on without there being any kind of harassment?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: Yes, we were harassed.  They said they don't want any night vigil, they don't want a lot of people around.  They were spreading tear-gas all over the place.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you say that the funeral was restricted to 25 people only.  Is that correct?

MATSILISO PAULINA MONAGENG: Yes, that is correct.  Even the bus was not there.  We went to the graveyard with cars.

YASMINE SOOKA: And did the family observe the 25 person restriction or was it bigger than that?