Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-12

VINCENT KHANYILE: (still under oath)

MR BERGER: (cont)
	Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Khanyile, can you tell the Committee what was the event which promoted the attack?  What was the event which occurred, which sparked the residents of kwaMadala to launch the attack on Boipatong?

VINCENT KHANYILE: What I can say is that lots of IFP members were killed in Boipatong.  And also houses were demolished or burnt down, school children who were members of the IFP, have to stop schooling.

MR BERGER: My question to you is and perhaps there was no specific event, and if so, then you must say so.  Was there a specific event which sparked the attack on Boipatong?

VINCENT KHANYILE: As I have explained, Mr Berger, the reason why the residents of Boipatong were attacked, it was because of their acts of killing us and also burning us.
	Those are the reasons why we attacked them.

MR BERGER: Do I understand you correctly then, that there was no one specific event which sparked the attack, that it was a build up over time, would that be correct?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Maybe I can try to explain it in this way.  During those days of the attack at Boipatong, there were a lot of IFP members who were killed during those days.
	Therefore I would say the killings of the IFP members at Boipatong, was over and above.

MR BERGER: Which people are you referring to specifically?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Even if I can't remember all of them, one that I still remember Bongani Mbatha, the other one is Mbele, Mr Khumalo and also two young girls who were burnt.  If I remember well their names were Nomvula and Martha.
	Those are the people whom I can still remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khanyile, are you able to tell us how long before the attack on Boipatong, were these people killed?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Even if I can't give a specific number, I will say it took about a week or two weeks.

MR BERGER: Now the person that you say Mr Mbatha that was killed, he was killed in January of 1992, is that correct?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I have already explained that I don't know the exact dates on which they were killed, but it was during those times.
	Therefore I won't deny if you say that is the case.

MR BERGER: You gave evidence yesterday that you were present when Mr Mbatha was killed, but you also gave evidence to say that you never went into Boipatong, you never left the hostel.
	How is it possible if you never left, if you never went into Boipatong that you could have witnessed the killing of Mr Mbatha?

VINCENT KHANYILE: What I can say Mr Berger, as I said I might have a problem with the Interpreter, because we might not be having the same interpretation with some other words.  When you say I left kwaMadala and went to the other place to me, it means leaving kwaMadala to go and stay somewhere, that is how I understood your question.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you suggesting that Mr Khanyile never left the hostel at all, to go outside of the hostel, is that what you are putting to him?

MR BERGER: Chairperson, when he was giving his evidence in chief and I wasn't asking the questions, my learned friend asked him - Chairperson, can I answer the question that you put to me, first?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, go ahead.

MR BERGER: The witness said in his evidence in chief in response to the question whether he had any personal knowledge or personal experiences of attacks by comrades, his answer was no, I never left kwaMadala hostel for Boipatong.
	That is what I am putting to the witness.  If he never left kwaMadala hostel for Boipatong, then in my submission he couldn't have witnessed any attack on Mr Mbatha in Boipatong.  That is what I am trying to put to the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

VINCENT KHANYILE: What I tried to clarify is that I never said I never left, what I said is I never moved out of kwaMadala to stay at Boipatong.  There is a difference there.
	The question came to me, suggesting that I have moved out of kwaMadala hostel to stay at Boipatong.  No question came to ask as to whether I left at one particular day from kwaMadala hostel to Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, I am not going to argue with you, but that was not the question.  In fact the question was asked by your counsel who asked you whether you, Mr Khanyile, had any personal experiences of attacks by people from Boipatong on you and your answer was no, I never left kwaMadala for Boipatong.

VINCENT KHANYILE: It will mean that you didn't understand me.

MR BERGER: And your problems with the Interpreter only began under cross-examination, you never had any problems when you gave evidence in chief.

VINCENT KHANYILE: I don't know whether you expect me to answer.

MR BERGER: What I am suggesting to you Mr Khanyile is whenever you have difficulty with an answer, you seem to be blaming the interpretation.

VINCENT KHANYILE: To explain, I never had a problem with answering your questions.  All I can say about the Interpreter is that I had a problem since from the morning, but it continued up to a stage where I have to say it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, would we please proceed?

MR BERGER: Yes, I am proceeding.    The woman Nomvula, do you know that she was suspected of taking information from Boipatong to kwaMadala?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No, I only know her as someone who has a friend at kwaMadala.

MR BERGER: David Mbele, do you know that he was an IFP member?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Even if it wasn't said unto me, but I heard that he was.

MR BERGER: So you will agree with me that the statement that David Mbele had tenuous if any structural connection with Inkatha, is wrong?

INTERPRETER: Would you please repeat your question Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: Will you agree with me that the statement that David mbele had tenuous if any structural connection with Inkatha, that that statement is wrong?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khanyile, do you know David Mbele?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I used to know him as a teacher at Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether he was a member of the IFP?

VINCENT KHANYILE: From what I heard, I was told that he was a member of the IFP.

MR BERGER: Did you know that David Mbele, the David Mbele who died, worked for Nampak and that he held IFP meetings at his house in Boipatong?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No.

MR BERGER: Did you know that B.L. Khumalo was an IFP member and in fact a very vocal IFP member?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I knew Khumalo as an IFP member, not a vocative member.

MR BERGER: Are you talking about B.L. Khumalo or are you talking about George Khumalo?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I am referring to Bhendileni Khumalo who was burnt to death at Boipatong.  There is another Khumalo of whom I had heard who was staying at Boipatong, that he was an IFP member, but I don't know anything about this Khumalo which I can explain before the Committee.

MR BERGER: In your affidavit on page 104, you refer to Khumalo's family.

INTERPRETER: Khumalo who?

MR BERGER: Khumalo's family.  Which Khumalo are you referring to?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I am referring to the Khumalo who was a resident at Boipatong.  The Khumalo whom I didn't know much about.  I was not referring to the one who was killed.

MR BERGER: You were referring to the Khumalo whose house was burnt in Bopelong Street, Boipatong, is that correct?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Now, that is George Khumalo.  He was a member of the military wing of the IFP, was he not?

VINCENT KHANYILE: As I have explained before, I didn't know much about him.  I only knew him as an IFP member and also a resident of that place.

MR BERGER: He was an associate and he kept company with Victor Geswa and Damara Qonqo?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I never noticed them together.

MR BERGER: In 1990 George Khumalo killed Amos Miga and ran away from Boipatong to stay in kwaMadala?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, are we going to have evidence to that effect?

MR BERGER: Indeed, we are.  Yes, Mr Chairperson.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.