Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   In my torture when I got out of that place I had thought that I had lost my mind, because I was put there in solitary confinement for one year two months.  I sat there inside, I couldn't go out.  I didn't know whether it was raining, shining, whether it was winter or summer.  They were killing me emotionally.  They were just finishing me off, because when I went out of that place I had to be taken to traditional healers so that my mind could function properly, because at that time I kept on losing my mind.  I didn't want to stay with people because I was so used to being alone.

UNKNOWN: Would you regard yourself as having healed?

WITNESS:   I think so.  I think I have healed mentally.

UNKNOWN: What about physically?

WITNESS:   Well, physically my ribs, two of my ribs were affected.  When I go to doctors about one ailment, like maybe taking x-ray, they usually ask me what happened to my ribs and how are my ribs.  Then I remember that by the way I got injured.

UNKNOWN: Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working.

UNKNOWN: You say you can't get a job because there are certain things that disturb you.

WITNESS:   Yes, there are certain things that are hindering my progress.  When I get a job I just work for two weeks, then thereafter I get chased.  It is those very boers who arrested me.  They are still continuing to do it even now.

UNKNOWN: You say you work for only two weeks.  Wherever you go you work for two weeks.  So you say the boers are still able to follow you and go mess things up where you work.

UNKNOWN: /---  They

UNKNOWN: ---   They had a right, an inherent right to demoralise me at the time of apartheid.

UNKNOWN: What is happening now?

WITNESS:   Now I have just decided that I should stay, because whatever effort I make to get a job it still yields the same results.

UNKNOWN: Maybe we want to give you some hope that probably since things have changed you may be lucky.  Lastly, Mr Mchunu, you may answer this question if you wish, and you may not if you don't wish.  As old as you are in your life, when we try to collect the scattered pieces of our lives we would like to sit down and plan a family.  Is there something that's troubling you that makes you not to start a family?  Do you have a wife, or what is happening?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have a wife.

UNKNOWN: Are you prepared to have a wife?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am prepared to have a wife.

MR LYSTER: Order please.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.  I'll say this once more to you.  We would like to encourage you, support you to start building your life, picking up the pieces of your life, trying to build yourself a future.  You still have a bright future.  We thank you.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... the witness before you, Mr Mnikathi, you were tortured by members of the South African Police, and you suffered terribly at their hands, and for those of us who have not experienced this sort of violation we can only imagine what it must be like to live month after month in a small cell, eating porridge, drinking rainwater, and being abused and assaulted.  It is even more shocking that these things were done to you by the police, who were permitted by the Government at that time to abuse, harass, torture, and even kill citizens of this country.  As I have said before, we hope that those days have passed.  We know that at least one of the police who did these things to you is still acting as a policeman in a senior capacity, and that is one of the things that we will follow up.
We will also make recommendations to the Government as to how victims like you, or people like you who have suffered so badly, should be assisted by the Government.   We thank you for coming to tell us your story today, and hope that just by telling it it has made it easier for you to come to terms with what happened to you.  Thank you again for coming in and talking to us.

MR LYSTER: The next witnesses will be coming onto the stage together.  They are Mrs Thobekile Maphumulo and Mrs Nombulelo Maphumulo.  If they could please come onto the stage.  Which one is Mrs Thobekile Maphumulo?  Can you hear me and understand me, Mrs Maphumulo?

MRS T MAPHUMULO: Yes, I do understand.

MR LYSTER: And Mrs Nombulelo ... (intervention)

MRS N MAPHUMULO: Yes, I do understand you.

MR LYSTER: You have both come here today to tell us about the tragic death of your husband.  You are the first and the second wives of the late Chief Mhlabunzima Maphumulo.  You are from 'Maritzburg, Mrs Thobekile and ... (incomplete)

MRS T MAPHUMULO: Yes, I can hear.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible)

MRS N MAPHUMULO: Yes, I can hear.

MR LYSTER: Before you give your evidence I would like you both to stand and to take the oath.

THOBEKILE MAPHUMULO AND NOMBULELO MAPHUMULO: (Sworn, State)

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... to my colleague, Mr Mdu Dlamini, who will assist you with your evidence.

MR DLAMINI: I won't start by greeting you because I have already greeted you.  Mr Chairman, I would like to first start with the statement from both Mrs Maphumulo.  They will give us their testimony.  They will give each other a chance.  They will us their testimony in details.  I would like to start by calling Mrs Thobekile Maphumulo.  After her I'll speak to Mrs Nombulelo.  Mrs Thobekile, you stayed much longer with your husband before he died so you have more to tell us about him, but because of time, we are very much sorry, we would like you to just summarise and just give us more details about what happened on those specific dates rather than the whole thing.  We apologise and we will like to pass our praises to people who lost their fathers and sons.  Mrs Maphumulo, as far as you've known your husband your husband was a very good person.  Is it like that?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's like that.

MR DLAMINI: And again as far as you've known your husband people used to like your husband because he was a person - or someone who was working for people with people.  He was the chief of the people by the people.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's what I know.

MR DLAMINI: Would you please give us more details about children.  We would like to know how many children your husband had.

WITNESS:   My husband had eight kids.  Mine are only three.  The first one it's Nhlaganipho.  He is at M L Sultan.  Buwiso he is in college, and the last-born he is at ... (inaudible) ... North.

MR DLAMINI: Are you working?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

MR DLAMINI: Where are you working?

WITNESS:   Outreach Education.

MR DLAMINI: Where do you stay?  Is it your house, or you've just rented the place?

WITNESS:   Yes, I have just rented the place.

MR DLAMINI: This Maqonqo place, was it a peaceful place, because according to your statement this was a peaceful place until you experienced problems, chieftainship problems, and these chieftainship problems took forms of politics.  It was more like political motives.  Was there any harassment or torture that you've experienced, because your husband died while you were not at home, you went to a conference?