Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-15

CHAIRPERSON: He was talking to them?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I cannot tell exactly whether he was talking to them or he was doing something else because I didn't see that.  I was in the house.

CHAIRPERSON: So as I understand your evidence you don't know why they threw stones at your house and you don't know why they killed your husband?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes what I can say briefly is that what I observed on my own was the fact that they were jealous because before there was this burning and destruction and attack they went to the farm and they burnt all the trees, avocados and all the beehives were destroyed.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know who did that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I can't tell you exactly because when it happened I was at home, because it is far.  The farm is quite far.

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't know if it is the same people who killed your husband?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well in my own view I think it was necessary to blame the same people - to associate them with the destruction at the farm because it came as an act even at home until his death.

CHAIRPERSON: So that is just an opinion you hold, that it's the same people?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You've heard the evidence of most of these applicants.  It seems that there was a perception at the very least that your husband was involved in the practice of witchcraft, whether that is true or not is beside the point.  And you have also heard that he interfered with the attempt to have political meetings.  And you have also heard that their problems with witches, they say, was related to a desire to have a restructured political dispensation in this area.  If they would come and want to make peace with you and your family what would your attitude be?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well personally - are you referring to me forgiving these people or trying to come to terms?

CHAIRPERSON: Come to terms and reconcile with the community.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Personally if I were to reconcile with these people who destroyed our ...(indistinct) I do have a lot to say and explain to them, because what they did, even if I can live for a hundred years I cannot forget.

CHAIRPERSON: No I can understand that.  It's difficult to forget the important things in one's life.  I am asking are you able to see your way clear, not to forget, nobody can ask you to forget your husband and what happened, but to reconcile with the community?  Are you able to do that or are you able to consider the possibility of doing that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well personally it cannot be possible.

CHAIRPERSON: So even if they make approaches to you to make friends and to reconcile you are not happy to do that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I cannot do that.

ADV DE JAGER: Where have you been living since the death of your husband?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I have been staying near the police station for one year and two months.

ADV DE JAGER: And did you go back to Mahvunga afterwards?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I didn't go back to Mahvunga.

ADV DE JAGER: And today where are you living?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I am staying at Chirore.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg are there any other aspects you want to raise?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Ja, just one or two thank you Mr Chairman.  If you are staying that from the date of the attack on your house, that was the 6th of April, for a period of one year and two months you lived at the police station, can you just explain to us why?  Why didn't you go back to the area and rebuild your house and continue living there?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well it was difficult because firstly as I was living at the police station even my children were afraid of going to the shop because they were going to meet these boys.  As their mother I was threatened, intimidated and so hurt because they used to share the same food with my kids.  That really led me into saying I cannot go to a very dangerous place because I know I can still see that dangerous zone.

MR VAN RENSBURG: The evidence was led from the applicants that they had absolutely no fight or struggle or grudge against yourself and the boys, and they only aimed their attack at your husband, and even allowed you to escape from the house.  What do you say to that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well let me put it clearly.  Well if it were possible and if there was no fight at all between them and my late husband if you consider that they were cooperating they would have really stayed with him and shown him the good way of living, not really through a fight.
	And besides as we left the house we did not leave through the gate, we jumped the fence and left the house.

CHAIRPERSON: That may be so but they could easily have attacked you while you were jumping over the fence, isn't it?  And perhaps even killed you, couldn't they?  There was opportunity to do so.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes it's true.

CHAIRPERSON: And that's why they are saying they allowed you and the children to get away.  I am not saying that that is true, I am just saying that is what their evidence is.  And that's why they are saying that they allowed you and the children to escape.  Can you understand that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes I do understand that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: What or did you sustain any injuries on that day when they attacked the house on the 6th of April?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes I sustained injuries.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Where and from what?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Next to the eye.

MR VAN RENSBURG: What was the injury?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Stone throwing.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Now the question is easy, do you believe that when you were hit with that stone that that stone was aimed for yourself or do you think the stone was aimed at your husband?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: It was directed to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see who threw it at you?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes I saw the person who threw the stone.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Can you tell us ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Would he not have directed ...(intervention)

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: It was Amos.

CHAIRPERSON: Would he not have directed it at the house?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: The stone was aimed at a person.

ADV DE JAGER: Were you at that stage outside the house?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I was right in the room and I was going to fetch the money which was in the house.

CHAIRPERSON: And was Amos in the house when he threw that stone at you or did it come from outside?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: It was outside but it directly next to where I was in the room.

CHAIRPERSON: So how were you able to see that it was Amos that threw the stone at you?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I was directly looking towards the place where he was?

CHAIRPERSON: At the window?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes, through the window, I could see him through the window.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Was your husband in that same room at that stage with you when you were hit?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No he was in the passage with his children.

MR VAN RENSBURG: From the evidence further led by the applicants they seem to have made the allegations that your husband was not sympathetic, he had no sympathy with these people singing the freedom songs, in fact opposed the people who sang the freedom songs.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: He did not oppose that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Can you tell us what, as far as you know, he did oppose?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: He opposed the issue of burning the houses that the youth were doing.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And these young sons that lived with you and also the daughters that lived with you in the house, did you stop them from taking part in the political activities of the youth in the area?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Sorry repeat your question.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Did you stop or discourage the children that lived with you from participating in the political activities of the youth in the area?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I didn't say anything about that.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr van Rensburg the deceased and the family did they support or were they members of any political dispensation?