Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-04

MR MACADAM: 2B metal objects or buildings, and the anti-personnel, which can be used to shoot at things like people.  They told us that when you shoot with an RPG7 50% of the power goes back as when you look at it, it has a pipe at the back.  50% of the power goes forward towards the target.  At your back we were told that in the vicinity of about 100 metres there shouldn't be an object because the power which pushes back can be very destructive at anything which might be behind you.  We were told as to how to lodge a rocket in front of the RPG7 and we were told that it's not operated by one person and cannot be operated by one person.  We were told that it's to be handled by No 1 and No 2, the people, and we were told as a No 1 person that you have to take it and put it on your shoulder and kneel and No 2 - person No 2 will load it and hold it in the conventional manner and set it, because it has some optical sights.  When it's ready to shoot person No 1 will hold the trigger in the trigger guard.  You are doing that in order to squeeze the trigger.  You are the one who is doing the aiming and you have to control your breathing (?) and you have to set it correctly - make sure that its sights should be in line with your target.  Then person No 2 after finishing the loading will hit you on your shoulder, because the ... (inaudible) ... should be quiet and person No 2 shall make sure that he wouldn't go behind you, as I have explained about the danger of the power which goes backwards, and he has to stand aside and when he pats you on the shoulder, in other words that a sign to say it is ready to shoot.  Therefore it's up to you as to when you should squeeze the trigger and also how to control your breathing and how you aim it at the

MR MACADAM: /target.  That's

MR MACADAM: 2B target.  That's the RPG7.

MR MACADAM: More or less how much time, can you remember, was devoted to showing you how to fire this weapon?

WITNESS:   It took a very long time, because each of us have to shoot these.  It didn't end up there where we have to learn about the weapon, where we just have to be told how it works and look at it.  However, we had to go through each of the weapons, test it and feel as to whether the theory does apply in practice.  Each weapon you have to learn all the characteristics.   By characteristics I mean things like it's length, it's features, advantages, disadvantages and parts of each of them, to know that this is a barrel, this is a butt, this is a bolt, a bolt carrier, that this arm is a recoil spring and why do you say it's a recoil spring.  You know, this is a gas operation firearm and the reason why we call it a gas operation arm - firearm.  You have to know its speed, its calibre, the danger, its mechanism, that the breech block can be pushed forward and also how to extract it out and how to eject it, and therefore they will say you know the firearm.  You are not just shown a firearm and you say, "I know the firearm".  You are shown the firearm, told the name of the firearm, its characteristics, it's advantages and disadvantages and you also then go deep into knowing its parts - something called IA drill - immediate action drill, and also to repair the stoppage if the firearm doesn't work, and you also go the shooting range, where you are taught how to shoot, in order to be perfect in your shooting.  When they say to you, "Shoot the eye", you mustn't shoot the mouth.  You were taught about tactics of shooting and thereafter, after qualifying, they would say, "You know this

MR MACADAM: /particular firearm.

MR MACADAM: 2B particular firearm.  So all the arms that we learned about I would say that's how we learned them.

MR MACADAM: Now, specifically with the RPG, was any time given to showing you how to be on the look-out for a person who has got an RPG7 concealed on his person, or a person who is lying on the side of the road in ambush with an RPG7, so that you would be able to take defensive measures against that person?

WITNESS:   May you please repeat your question?

MR MACADAM: In the sort of training you received with the RPG7 specifically was any time devoted to training you how, if there was a person who had an RPG7 concealed on his person you would be able to recognise that person and be able to take steps to defend yourself from him?

WITNESS:   Yes, they also taught us about that.  They also showed us how to take cover and also what kind of objects can be used as covers.  For example, I can't use this table as a cover, because a bullet can penetrate on such table, depending on the magnitude, the power of such gun, and if we are talking about firearms like RPG7 I can't say this table itself.  However, things like walls, steel and such things.  This is the kind of things where you can hide, you will use as a cover.  There are other things like tactics which were taught to us, in order to protect us from being attacked or injured.  There is a phase which was called, Five S's and M".  It refers to silhouette, shape, shadow.  M for movement.  Those are all the cover issues where you have to protect yourself, which you have to be careful about, in order to be sure that your enemy doesn't locate you.  Also to make it difficult for your enemy to identify your position, when you have taken cover

MR MACADAM: /or to know

MR MACADAM: 2B or to know that there is a particular strange thing in the vegetation where you might be.  Those were defensive mechanisms.

MR MACADAM: Mr Chairperson, I want to go on to another aspect in the same phase, which I anticipate will take some length, whether this would be the appropriate time to take the adjournment until tomorrow.

MR LYSTER: Yes, thank you, Mr Macadam ... (inaudible).  Mr Wills and Mr Mkhize, we are going to adjourn now until tomorrow morning.  Mr Mkhize will remain under oath and we will adjourn until 9am tomorrow.  Thank you very much.
PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED TO 1997/08/05
/PROCEEDINGS RESUMED