Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duncan Village — 1996-09-23

MR SANDI: In 1981, up until 1984, you were detained again.  The policemen were after you.  Can you please tell us that each and every time you were arrested, what was happening to you?

UNKNOWN: In 1981, up until 1984, at that time the police were harassing us because they said to me they used to take me every time, they used to come to my house monthly to come and pick me up, or if they didn't pick me up, they just went to my home and detain me for a day or two days in Westbank.
 What they wanted from me, they were recruiting me because they wanted me to be their informer.  They told me that they know that my friends, all of my friends, they were showing me my friends' photos, that all of them are in exile at the present, at that time.  
 They were asking me why I was not in exile.  They said that it was clear that I was a member of the ANC, I was doing underground movements.
 They were trying to recruit me to be their informer.  And they said I must go to the meetings and listen and then go back to them to give them a full report of what was said in the meetings.
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
7 BR MAPISA
 They said that they will buy a house for me and give me money, but I didn't do what they wanted me to do.  And then they said that they would harass me and I will choose to leave the country because of their harassment.
 They harassed me and firstly I was like a person who was burnt.  Because as I was sitting at home, Madikizela used to come at my home together with the one policeman who was called Mbombo and he was (indistinct)
 They used to come to my house every time.  I looked like a person who - a burnt person, they checked me every time, even in Town.  They were always following me.
 They were harassing me and they will do things to me even around in Town and I was just leading that kind of life.
 On that occasion, there was an occasion, our Cultural Organisation was started at that time.  The African Culture Organisation.  We used to gather at the back of my house, at the back side of my house in the shack.  In that shack we were trying to do cultural events and we were trying to help people.
 We even had weekend classes where we were helping students in Maths and other subjects.  In this shack we even had our books for this Organisation, because we got he sponsor from someone who was interested in helping us in this cultural organisation.
 And he used to buy us books.

MR SANDI: Can you please tell us where you said Mandliwa beat a daughter at home, thank you?

UNKNOWN: In the shack we had this books.  I was not at home at that moment and on my way back from Town I found my mother disturbed and she told me that the Security Police
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
8 BR MAPISA
Mandliwa and others had come to my home and they went to the shack, kicked the door open, broke the door, ripped it off and took away all the books that was stored in there.
 And they took red ink and spilled it all over the wall and they wrote 'Viva UDF" on the walls, they even wrote "Ryan Mapisa, you're going to die" and as they were going out, they went into our house and one mentally retarded girl touched one of them, and they - Mandliwa kicked that child and clapped him and my mother screamed and so they left.

MR SANDI: You say, amongst the things they graffited they had wrote on the wall, were the words "Ryan Mapisa, you're going to die".  What impact did this have on you?

UNKNOWN: Since there were people who were continuing to harass me, I felt that this was only a threat, because they had indicated to me that I was not going to be happy until I decide to go into exile.
 So what I did was to get hold of a camera and I wanted to take photos of all what they  had done, and I took those photos to this attorney, Lalla, because he was the only lawyer here in Duncan Village at the time.
 And I asked that he should open a case.  He tried and gave promises that he was going to open a case on the matter, and this made things more difficult for me.

MR SANDI: Did you open a case with Lalla about your assault or about what they had done at your home?

UNKNOWN: No, about what they had done at my home and the damage they had caused to the shack and also the threat they had written on the wall and even the assault on this young, retarded child, because people had seen Mandliwa and his companions.

MR SANDI: I would like to ask you, Mr Mapisa, a question
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
9 BR MAPISA
that these various times you have referred to when they used to put you into jail, did they ever mention under what Act were they arresting you.  As you know that there were Section 6, Section 29 and the police were supposed to tell you why they were arresting you.   Did they ever tell you?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they used to tell me whenever they came to my home, because I would ask them what was the warrant.  Was there any warrant of arrest and they would produce it.  And it would have the Magistrate's stamp and they would tell me that they were detaining me under Section 6, under Section 29 and other Acts.

MR SANDI: Now, the day the soldiers came to your place in 1985, what happened when these members of the South African Defence Force arrived?

UNKNOWN: They said they were looking for me but I thought I was going to demand for the warrant of arrest, but they told me that they did not have any because they were soldiers.
 So they pulled me and as we were going out of the house, one who was following me hit me with the rifle on my ear and because this was unexpected, I nearly fell.  I was really shocked.
 In other words I would say I did fall, but I tried not to fall completely.

MR SANDI: But at the time you were attacked by this soldier, did you have any injury on your ear?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did because after they had taken me away to Cambridge, they later took me to the East London prison in Westbank and I noticed that my ear could not hear properly - for quite some time it was like that.
 So that even now at night some puss comes out of my 
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
10 BR MAPISA
ear.

MR SANDI: Now you mean you still have a problem with your ear?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it oozes at night.

MR SANDI: By the way, according to your statement you have mentioned that they laid a charge against you, a charge with murder saying that you had killed someone or some people.  What were the details of this charge?

UNKNOWN: This was a surprising charge, because it became very difficult even for the Magistrate to explain the origin of this charge.
 Because even at the time we were in court, on the first day (tape ends) ... to this charge, such that the Magistrate too was also confused why we were there and it was later that they said that they were charging us with murder.
 Murder of whom, they could not tell.  Where this murder was committed, they could not tell.

MR SANDI: At the time they were investigating, who were the people who had laid this charge with murder?

UNKNOWN: I can remember Dalxola Jaqa as a co-accused and some other young boys who were members of the Culture Committee.  I can't remember their names now.

MR SANDI: At Fort Glamorgan, did you perhaps meet a certain man who was earlier mentioned, whose name was Nkunzemnyama?