Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-21

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mazibuko, may I remind you that you are still under oath.

MR MAZIBUKO: (s.u.o.)

MS CAMBANIS: Mr Chair and Members of the Committee, may I take the opportunity of apologising.  It is correct that I only arrived at 09H10 ...(intervention)

INTERPRETER: May you please speak louder.

MS CAMBANIS: ...(inaudible) arrived at 09H10.

MR LAX: The translator is asking you to speak up, Ms Cambanis.

INTERPRETER: No, I said she must wait.

MR LAX: Oh, sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ma'am.

MS CAMBANIS: Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, I wish to apologise, it's correct that I only arrived at 09H10 this morning and to the extent that my lateness contributed to the delay, I apologise.  It was of a personal nature, the cause.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, your colleagues, Mr Berger and Malindi advised us about your difficulties and I appreciate that, thank you, Ma'am.
	Yes, ...(indistinct)

MS TANZER: Mr Buthelezi, you said that ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mazibuko.

MS TANZER: I apologise.
	Mr Mazibuko, you said that you were not present at the meeting on the 10th of June 1992, were you present at the meeting that took place on the 14th of June 1992, about three days before the attack?

MR MAZIBUKO: No, I was not present.

MS TANZER: You also gave evidence that your comrades in Sebokeng shot at you and that is why you came to the hostel.  You also feared walking in the township because if they caught you they would burn you.  Could you briefly explain what you did to cause wrath to your comrades?

MR MAZIBUKO: Before I was shot there were people who were alleging that I am an IFP member.  After I was shot I knew that those comrades shot me because they had a suspicion that I'm an IFP member.

MS TANZER: You also stated that you came to the hostel between January to April 1992, can you be a little bit more accurate?  I mean there are four months between these dates.

MR MAZIBUKO: As I've already stated that it is between January and April, I'm suggesting that I don't know which month exactly I went to the hostel.

MS TANZER: You said as well that you learnt of the pending attack on the 17th of June when you arrived at the stadium, was this because you heard the siren?

MR MAZIBUKO: When the siren rang I did not go, I went to the stadium when they returned women to their rooms, then I went to the stadium.

MS TANZER: So in fact when the siren has gone you never actually attended any of the meetings?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MS TANZER: So on the night of the 17th when you were aware that you were going to attack Boipatong, that is when you decided to go to the stadium?

MR MAZIBUKO: I went to the stadium when the women returned to their rooms, then I went to the stadium, then we were informed that we should go and fetch our arms from our rooms.

MS TANZER: Well who told you to fetch your arms from the rooms?

MR MAZIBUKO: The person who was instructing us was Mr Mkhize.

MS TANZER: You said when you arrived at the stadium, Mr Mkhize was talking, can you briefly explain what he was saying to you?

MR MAZIBUKO: When I arrived at the stadium and sat down it is when I heard that he was informing us that we should go and fetch our arms, then I did that.

MS TANZER: Did he give anymore details about how you were going to attack Boipatong, or did he just say fetch your arms, we're going to attack?

MR MAZIBUKO: He just said we're going to Boipatong to attack because we were being killed.  He just said we should go and fetch our arms and put our headbands.

MS TANZER: Can we safely say that you've never actually attended a meeting then at which any of the leaders allegedly spoke and incited the people?

CHAIRPERSON: Cited the people to do what?

MS TANZER: I apologise, let me rephrase.
	And allegedly spoke out at the stadiums related to the complaints of the residents of the hostel.

MR MAZIBUKO: I never went to the stadium where people were encouraged or there was a discussion about how people were killed.  I was always thinking of my parents because my family's house would be burnt or one member of my family would be killed.  Those are the things which were in my mind.

MS TANZER: You were not given a firearm at the stadium, is that correct?

MR MAZIBUKO: May you please repeat your question.

MS TANZER: You were not given a firearm at the stadium, is that correct?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MS TANZER: The weapons you used, were those your own weapons, the iron bar and the knopkierrie?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, they were mine.

MS TANZER: Did you intend to kill or assault anyone that night with your weapons?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MS TANZER: You stated also that the members or the residents of the hostel were divided into two groups and there were about 2-300 men present, how was such a large amount of people controlled by only two people?

MR MAZIBUKO: I would be able to say why.  When we arrived at a certain spot we were divided into two groups.  Immediately we starting shooting.  Nobody was in control or was giving instructions, everybody was attacking.

MS TANZER: As you left the hostel, did you pass under a bridge and come out into a big open field located a few minutes away from the hostel?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MS TANZER: Is that where the tree was where you were sitting under and divided into the two groups?

MR MAZIBUKO: Yes, that is correct.

MS TANZER: Before you left the stadium did you drink any ndelezi or spray it on your weapons?

MR MAZIBUKO: I drank ndelezi but I never sprayed my weapons with it.

MS TANZER: How did you feel after drinking the ndelezi?

MR MAZIBUKO: I was normal as usual, there was no change in my behaviour or in my thinking.

MS TANZER: Did it not make you feel brave or strong?

MR MAZIBUKO: No.

MS TANZER: When you joined the IFP, did they trust you, coming from Sebokeng?  Did they not perhaps think you were an ANC spy?

MR MAZIBUKO: When I arrived at the hostel there were those who have joined IFP from the township.  The person whom they knew is Oupa Semene(?) whom he was known as an IFP members, so there was no allegation or suspicion that I was an ANC spy, they knew already that I was a supporter of the IFP.

MS TANZER: They embraced you without any suspicion whatsoever?

MR MAZIBUKO: That is how I observed because I could see that there is no suspicion and there were no questions in that regard.

MS TANZER: You gave evidence that your group entered Boipatong in the last street, when you were sitting under the tree was it discussed in what direction each group would enter Boipatong or ...

MR MAZIBUKO: When I was in that spot or in that group I never heard any people giving us a direction, we were just divided into groups then we entered the township.  We were not instructed which direction to take.

MS TANZER: So did you see the other group entering in any other direction?

MR MAZIBUKO: I would explain in this way.  When we were under the tree, when we were divided in two groups, we were sitting down then we stood up and divided ourselves into groups.  When we entered Boipatong we used one street.  We divided ourselves further down in the street when we started shooting.

MS TANZER: So it's correct that in fact different groups took different streets?

MR MAZIBUKO: I don't know as to whether other people used other routes or other directions.

MS TANZER: Yes, Mr Mazibuko, you gave evidence that when you saw people around your age sitting on the other side of the barricade, well not you exactly but you fired at them, Mkhize fired at them and they ran and you gave chase.  How many people of Mkhize's group chased these suspected SDU members?