Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-05

ADV SIGODI: When this letter was written, the letter on page 16, the letter for the indemnity in support of the indemnity application, were you assisted by someone in writing this letter?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, even though I cannot recall.

ADV SIGODI: I did not get the answer, sorry.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: The person who assisted me was a fellow inmate.  I can't recall really what happened.

MR LOWIES: Thank you, Chairman.
	Mr Nosenga, we've established that the document on pages 18, 19, 20 until 22, you say these are your signatures appearing on the different pages, starting at page 18.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we through with ...

MR LOWIES: Yes, Chairman, the previous documents.  I'm through with them, I have no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nosenga, you see the letter that is at page 60, which you say that a fellow inmate assisted you in writing.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I would direct your attention to the second paragraph, the second sentence thereof, which begins
"... and we have gone to Sebokeng, Zone 13.  By that time it was on (is it) January 8, 1991 and it was about 5H30 p.m. ..."
....(intervention)

MR BERGER: Chairperson, I think it's May or June, not January.
CHAIRPERSON
"... and we have shoot, killing people there"
Did any incident occur in Zone 13 in 1991, in January?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, Sir, this thing happened in June 1992 on the 15th.  I'm talking about the Zone 12 incident.

CHAIRPERSON: So would this be a mistake?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, that can be a mistake because the incident happened in 1992, on the 15th of June.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And then the next paragraph, it says
"And then again in 1991.01.08, we have gone to shoot at Everton at library and we've shoot people, a Small Farm(?).  We have shoot people inside a taxi.  It was about 5H45 and 6H00 p.m."
Is that date also incorrect?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I don't know anything about that date.  I don't know anything about the time.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I think it says 1991, either January 1991, on the 8th of January 1991 or on the 1st of August 1991.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, Sir, this thing happened on the 15th of June 1992, including the one of the Small Farm, the taxi incident.  That happened on the 15th of June as well.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the last sentence, the next paragraph, it simply begins with
"1992 I was arrested on February at Parys and they transferred me to Vanderbijlpark."
When were you arrested in Parys?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I cannot recall, Sir, because they arrested me in connection with a vehicle.  Shaka came to fetch me actually.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that in 1992?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I don't want to tell a lie, I do not recall.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that in February?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I think it was after the Sebokeng incident.  It was in 1992, because the Sebokeng incident happened on the 15th of June 1992.  I therefore cannot recall exactly when I was arrested in Parys.  They left me or they picked me up and they took the Vereeniging Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: Is the statement which says
"1992 I was arrested on February in Parys"
... is that correct or incorrect?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I think there must have been a misunderstanding between myself and the person who was taking the statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but that's incorrect?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, no, do you meant that I was arrested in 1992?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I cannot recall when I was arrested, because I think I remember it was after the Sebokeng incident when I was arrested in Parys.

CHAIRPERSON: The last paragraph on page 17
"And on the 14/02/95 I was convicted for a period of 14 years imprisonment"
Is that correct?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct.  I was sentenced on the 14th of February 1996, sentenced to 14 years.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR LAX: Sorry, the interpreter has just said 1996, the document says '95.  I'm just not clear, because the witness is agreeing with this, but I'm just not clear what's going on.  Was there maybe a problem with the interpretation?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I was sentenced in 1995, on the 14th.  I was sentenced to 14 years.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Yes, Mr Lowies?

MR LOWIES: Chair, would this be - I want to step over to page 18 and I think this could be an appropriate time to take the adjournment.  It's 30 seconds to four.

CHAIRPERSON: The inmate that assisted you in taking down the statement, what language did you speak to him?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I spoke in IsiZulu and he spoke Sesotho.  Many inmates at Leeuhof speak Sesotho.

CHAIRPERSON: You spoke to him in Zulu and he spoke to you in Sotho?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  We'll adjourn and reconvene at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS