Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-02-01

MR SIBANYONI: Okay, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Nodada, have you got any re-examination?

MR NODADA: No re-examination, Mr Chair.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR NODADA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nombida, thank you, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the evidence that you wish to present on behalf of the victims?

MR NODADA: Mr Chairman, I would like to call just one of the widows who would like to say something to the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  What are her names?

MR NODADA: The names are Nosisi Kahla.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell the surname?

MR NODADA: K-a-h-l-a.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes, Mrs Kahla, good morning.  Just indicate to us if you can hear the interpreters on your headset.

NOSISI KAHLA: Yes, I can.

CHAIRPERSON: It's working, good.  Will you please stand to take the oath.  Your full names Nosisi Kahla?

NOSISI KAHLA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, sit down.  Yes, Mr Nodada.

MR NODADA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Nosisi, are you the widow of Nedisi Atwell Kahla?

NOSISI KAHLA: Mlungisi Atwell Kahla.

MR NODADA: Was he employed by the Transkei Defence Force?

NOSISI KAHLA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NODADA: And is it correct that he died on the same day, that is the morning of the 22nd of November 1990?

NOSISI KAHLA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NODADA: Where was he based during his lifetime?

NOSISI KAHLA: He was in Ncise camp as the instructor for the recruits.

MR NODADA: And what was his rank, if you know?

NOSISI KAHLA: He was a Sergeant-Major.

MR NODADA: And where were you working at the time, if you were employed?

NOSISI KAHLA: I was working for Telkom as a telephonist.

MR NODADA: And was he living outside the camp or was he residing at the camp, that is your husband?

NOSISI KAHLA: Sometimes he would be inside the camp as a training officer for the recruits, but on that particular night he was in the camp.

MR NODADA: In the camp.  And what did you hear on the 22nd of November and where were you?

NOSISI KAHLA: I was at work at the post office that night, I was on duty.

MR NODADA: You were doing night-duty?

NOSISI KAHLA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NODADA: Just tell us how you got to know that your husband had died.

NOSISI KAHLA: On that particular night, on the morning of the 22nd, we left our workplace, some technicians came and they realised that something was going on in the camp at about 3a.m.  We were requested and the other people were requested to come and assist because the people inside at work were not supposed to go out, we help in communications.
	I continued on duty up until 11 and 12a.m. because people were not allowed to come in and those who were inside were not allowed to go out.

MR NODADA: Yes, carry on.

NOSISI KAHLA: We were later released at about one.  I was residing next to Chatham.  In fact on that particular morning I asked the other soldiers who were going to the camp to go and check out for Mlungisi.  No-one came back to me to tell me what was happening until such time that I had to go home.
	After that I decided to go out to check up on him because he was at work on that particular night, but I did not get a clue of what was happening.  And I called Mr Derek Mgwebi, Mr Mgwebi told me to stay in the house, he was going to check what was happening and then I also called Brig Matanzima, he told me that he would come back to me but he requested me to remain in the house, they would come and fetch me because Mlungisi was injured.
	I waited until the following day but no-one came.  I phoned my brother, the deceased DM and I told him that no-one came back to me to tell me what was happening to Mlungisi and I asked him to accompany me to the camp.  When we got to the road junction there were roadblocks, we could not get into the camp in time but eventually we managed to get inside.  I went to his office that was called "Skollie", I met with the late Andile Mncwazi, he told me that Mlungisi was injured, but he did not tell me that he had died. 
	When we left him all the people who knew me they did not even want to look at me.  Rev Lila came and asked me where I was going and I told him that I was looking for Mlungisi, I wanted to know what was happening because when we went to the hospital to see the casualties we were refused.  Rev Lila told me to go to Lebode to go and fetch my mother because Mlungisi was injured.  He told us that we could not go to the hospital without an elderly person.  Mr Lila told my mother that Mlungisi was injured and he died in the process.  That's how I know the story.

MR NODADA: And how many children did you have at the time of his death?

NOSISI KAHLA: Two children, two daughters.  The first-born was four years old and the last-born was one year old.

MR NODADA: And since his death have you perhaps received any form of compensation for the loss of maintenance and support as he was the breadwinner in your house?

NOSISI KAHLA: Yes, I am receiving a widow's fund plus what is called Workmen's Compensation.

MR NODADA: Is there anything else that you would like to tell this Committee?  Is there anything else that you'd like to add to what you've already said?

NOSISI KAHLA: Not at the moment.

MR NODADA: Nothing.  Thank you Mr Chairman, that's all I wanted to lead from this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NODADA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you Mr Nodada.  Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: Mr Chairman, on behalf of both my clients and myself we would like to offer our sincere condolences to her, but we've got no questions, thanks.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MALAN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, that is noted.  Ms Dambuza.

MS DAMBUZA: I don't have any questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS DAMBUZA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mapoma.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson, I don't have any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Panel?  Have you got anything further, Mr Nodada?

MR NODADA: No further evidence, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Ms Kahla, thank you, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma, I assume that you don't have any witnesses that you intend calling.

MR MAPOMA: No witnesses Chairperson, thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Malan, are you in a position to address us on the merits of the applications of your clients?

MR MALAN: I am indeed, Mr Chairman.  Can I continue?
	Mr Chairman and Members of the Committee, at the start of the proceedings yesterday I didn't feel at liberty to disclose some of the views, due to the fact that I felt it might prejudice my clients' applications.  Now at the conclusion and after tendering evidence under oath, it is my conviction by making a simple and clinical analysis of the facts, that both of my clients, both applications of my clients don't fall within the ambit of Act 34/95.
	It is one of the prerequisites that an applicant must have committed a crime and acknowledge it, and throughout their evidence they persisted that they didn't commit a crime and they were merely executing their duties and I respect the fact that they played open cards with the Committee in this regard.  If there was a great miscarriage of justice in the criminal matter, it is not for this Committee, with respect, to rectify the omissions in the defence by means of this forum.  
	It was as early as our first consultation that I informed them of my opinion that they will not qualify for amnesty due to this fact.  If I'm wrong that's another story, I do not want to underestimate the powers and the discretion of this Committee to overrule my humble opinion, but I have already informed them yesterday of my opinion and I think they accept it in that way that I've explained it to them.  That is still my opinion at this point in time.  Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Malan, for your frank submissions.  Ms Dambuza, have you got any submissions before I go to Mr Nodada to respond.

MS DAMBUZA: Just a few, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.