Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-06

ADV PRIOR: Well, Mr Chairman, that is the position.  Then obviously, as Evidence Leader one is then restricted to what the applicant has said.  He's already told the Panel that the evidence in these 15 volumes, at it relates to him, is unreliable, we can't really on it.  So basically we have what he says before us.  There's no way of testing the veracity of that.  And I submit we are permitted to look wider than the statement he makes here.

CHAIRPERSON: You are certainly permitted, but the question is, the authoritativeness of the material being used.

ADV PRIOR: May I then propose that this aspect stand over.  We will ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes, I think if you can take a careful look at it.

MR RICHARD: I support that approach.  I took certain highlighted paragraphs as it landed in front of me.
	Mr McBride ...(intervention)

MR BERGER: Chairperson, sorry for butting in, but in the interests of transparency and openness that Mr Prior referred to, could we also have copies of the extracts that the Investigative Unit supplied him with?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Ms Kooverjee and I say the same.

ADV PRIOR: I come back to my original point.  If this can stand over I can deal with it adequately.  It came before us suddenly, one copy was made and ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well if you can get copies to the other parties, thank you.

MR RICHARD: To proceed to a different point.  I have before me a picture of the front of the Parade Hotel, would you please have a look at it.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, I have it.

MR RICHARD: Now is it correct to describe the site of the bomb to have been placed on the South-East corner of the building on the Marine Parade ...(indistinct)?

MR MCBRIDE: Sir, I'm not in a position to give you directions there.  If you want the exact position, I think it's best that that map, that part of the exhibits that I gave in to the Investigative Unit and the Investigation Panel, which I gave them a map which was marked specifically in relation to the building where the car bomb was placed.  Since they gave you that other stuff they should have that map I gave to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the map with the X where the ...(indistinct) was?  I can't recall where it is, Mr Prior, Mt.'s somewhere in the bundles.

MR RICHARD: The point I make is that the bomb went off on the corner of the building.  On ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr McBride, I think the South would be towards the harbour side of the hotel and the East towards the sea, generally speaking.  So the South-East would be on the corner of the building that's closest towards the harbour, on the sea side.

MR MCBRIDE: Chairperson, I think it would be dangerous to do that, I'll be confused if you go in directions.  Mine is a little bit different to that.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's find the map.

ADV PRIOR: Page 263 of A1.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, volume A1, page 263.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, Sir, I have that.

MR RICHARD: Now on that page there's an X.

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, yes.

MR RICHARD: Now when I describe the points of the compass, on the left we have South and on my right we have North and towards I have East.  So now ...(intervention)

MR MCBRIDE: Sir, just - sorry, Sir.  It just depends on which you are looking at it.

CHAIRPERSON: I think he's looking at it, Mr McBride, where, you're seeing the writing not upside or sideways.  Where it says Parade Hotel and Yarningdale Express Hotel, it's how it ought to be.

MR MCBRIDE: I have that now, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And then he's saying to the left of the map is the South, to the right is the North and right in front of you is the East.

MR RICHARD: Now on the photograph that I have just shown you, that displays the East-facing front of the building.

MR MCBRIDE: You are speaking of 93/94?

MR RICHARD: Yes.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, I would say roughly East-facing.

MR RICHARD: It faces the sea.

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, yes.

MR RICHARD: Now from that picture one can observe windows blown out a number of storeys up, is that correct?

MR MCBRIDE: Is that 95/96?

MR RICHARD: I can't see from where I ...(intervention)

MR MCBRIDE: On the other side, Sir.

MR RICHARD: Yes.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, I see that.

MR RICHARD: Now one can see that on that South-East point, where the X is, certainly there's more damage and the damage extends right across the Eastern face of the building towards the Yarningdale.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, Sir.

MR RICHARD: Now the next picture I use is one which sets and displays what the car looked like and the car next to it, after the explosion.

CHAIRPERSON: The secretary doesn't seem to be here, Mr Richard.

MR MCBRIDE: Thank you, Sir.

MR RICHARD: Now if one looks at the second photograph which has a number on it, of the motorcar remains, very little of that car if left.

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, yes.

MR RICHARD: In fact the explosion, in my submission, blew the shrapnel that had been placed in the car plus pieces of the car all over the place.

MR MCBRIDE: I cannot concede that, Sir.  As you yourself said, where the X is, the greatest damages were closest to where the X is, of the building.  So it was directed in that direction.

MR RICHARD: That is the nearest point, isn't it?

MR MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR RICHARD: And most damage occurred nearest the bomb.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes.  And the fact also that the explosives were packed on the left side.

MR RICHARD: So the building was the target at which the force of the explosion was directed.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Richard, if I could just ask one question before you proceed.
	When that vehicle was parked with the bomb, was it parked parallel parking, next to the, with the left side next to the pavement or was it angle parked in?

MR MCBRIDE: I'm not sure I understand you correctly. It was parked as if, it was in a parking place.

CHAIRPERSON: You see these cars on page 263, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, going down the road?

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it parked like that?

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So parallel parking.

MR MCBRIDE: That's right.

CHAIRPERSON: It wasn't angle parking with just the engine grid facing the pavement?

MR MCBRIDE: No, Sir.  Where the X is, that would have been where the boot was.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.  Yes, Mr Richard.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.
	Now where the most damage on that photograph appears is, I think it's common cause, what was termed the Why Not bar.  In other words the Why Not bar was on the corner.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you agree with that?

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, Sir.

MR RICHARD: And there's the entrance to the building and on the right-hand side of that entrance there would have been Magoo's.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, it would be - Magoo's would be where it's written "grass verge", just inside I would imagine.  That would be to the right of the entrance.

MR RICHARD: Now while the pictures speak for themselves, it would appear that the place in the corner, the Why Not, is the target of the attack with the full knowledge that the attack will in fact destroy or damage the rest of the building as well.  As the pictures show, windows were blown up, right up ...(indistinct) floors.

MR MCBRIDE: Sir, I just want you to ask one question at a time.  Damage or destroys is two questions, it's not the same thing.

CHAIRPERSON: I think Mr Richard, if you could just ask specific questions rather than make statements and wait for a response.

MR RICHARD: The question that I ask is, where is the most damage?

MR MCBRIDE: The part directly opposite the X.  If you make a straight line from the X to the building, it's where that straight line, the shortest distance connects to the building.

MR RICHARD: Is that where the Why Not pub was?

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, Sir.

MR RICHARD: Now to the right of the entrance to the building, is that where Magoo's was?

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, yes.

MR RICHARD: There was less damage done there, but it was also damaged.