Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-06

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chairperson.  I will be brief in my address and my submissions.
	I think what comes to the fore very clearly from the feelings of the victims is the fact that they regard the applicant's conduct, no matter what his motives were supposed to be at the time, they regard his conduct as cowardly and cruel and that they regard the deed as heinous in the circumstances.
	There's no doubt that they've suffered greatly as a result of the deed and the conduct of the applicant and whoever was with him, whether psychologically or physically, it's quite clear that several people were injured quite seriously in the course of the attack, other people will have to live with this act, with what happened to them for the rest of their lives and the psychological affect of what has happened obviously cannot be measured at all.
	It has become quite clear to me that the victims have a difficulty in understanding why they were subjected as being the victims of this attack, and they particularly have difficulty in accepting that because of the fact that at that particular point in time,  a date had been set for the elections and as far as they were concerned there was therefore absolutely no reason at the time for the attack to take place.
	They also expressed the view, as appeared during my questioning, that the deed becomes even more cowardly because of the fact that there were innocent people, innocent children, elderly people, civilians involved and they have great difficulty in accepting what political motive or gain would be achieved by in fact attacking them.
	I must say, Chair, that the victims, some of them, have expressed doubt as to the sincerity of the applicant when he has in fact indicated that he asked for forgiveness for his conduct.  In fact, one of the victims indicated that they got the impression that he in fact had adopted an almost arrogant boasting attitude about his deeds and that he didn't show sufficient appreciation for in fact, the way they feel about what had happened.  And the attitude basically is that unless the applicant in some or other way shows to them during the course of these hearing, or after the hearings, unless he shows to them on a more personal level that he in fact does really have, he is really sorry and that he really seeks forgiveness and that he really is someone who is looking ahead to build up a better life towards reconciliation, as he professes, if he shows them on a personal level, then they certainly on a personal level, would be prepared to forgive him for his conduct that in fact led to this dastardly deed.
	They're not prepared to in fact, condone what had happened on the particular day, from a bigger picture, but on a personal level they are prepared to in fact consider approaches on his part for forgiveness. 
	Chairperson, Committee, whether or not he has made full disclosure or not, whether or not he in fact complies with the requirements of the Act for amnesty, I'm not going to address you on that.  I've already indicated that there must be some doubt as to precisely what the motive was for the attack, bearing in mind the fact that the elections were going to take place, and unless we're dealing here with a situation as has been indicated by Mr Mbandazayo, that in fact, irrespective of what the other parties or the other people of this country were thinking at that particular time, APLA certainly had their own agenda when they decided to launch these attacks and particularly where soft targets were involved.
	That is all submissions on behalf of the victims, Chair, if there's anything in particular, then I'd be glad to address the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Riley.  Ms Coleridge, do you wish to say anything?

MS COLERIDGE: Chairperson, I have no further submissions to add, I'll leave the decision in the most capable hands of this Committee.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Coleridge.  Do you have any reply, Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO IN REPLY: Chairperson, I would only respond on the question that the victims would like to, if the applicant would come to them.  I would like to tell the victims that the applicant is prepared and in fact that's what he told me when we came here, that he would like - at that time we did not know, we normally after the hearing request whoever is representing the victims, to see the victims if they are willing, to talk to them at a personal level, to understand and whatever.  So in that respect, Chairperson, the applicant is willing to meet the victims.
	Well Chairperson, the other aspects I wouldn't like to dwell on, I think I've addressed sufficiently with regard to the question of the negotiations and it is known that at that time, and the Act is couched in such that it accommodates that what the political parties, recognised political parties at that time, was their position with regard to their operations.  So I wouldn't like to dwell on that aspect, except to say that the applicant is, it's his wish to meet the victims, those who are present.   Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.  I must just say on behalf of the Panel that, as intimated earlier to you and Mr Riley, that although reconciliation and the expression of remorse or forgiveness is not in any way a criteria to be taken into account by the Panel in deciding whether to grant or refuse amnesty, we consider the whole of reconciliation as a very important element of this whole amnesty process and if at the numerous hearings that we attend, any measure of reconciliation can be achieved, it's a good thing.  So the fact that the victims have expressed a will to speak to the applicant and the fact that the applicant has expressed a will to speak to the victims in regard to building bridges or arriving at some form of conciliation, we as Committee appreciate that and we would like to thank you all for that.
	We will reserve our decision in this matter.  It's our policy to hand out written decisions and as you know we're very near the end of the process, so the decision will not be long in coming out, it should be out in the very near future.  
	And I'd like to, at this stage, express my thanks to the legal representatives for their assistance in this matter, Ms Coleridge.  
	And before we adjourn, we have been here for the last couple of weeks, I would just very much like to thank everybody who made these hearings possible.  I'd like to thank the people of the synagogue for making this very convenient and nice venue available to us.  The Sound Engineers, the Interpreters who have been working particularly hard the last couple of weeks, the TV, the media people, the caterers who have been feeding us, the caretaker here who has been looking after us so well, my Secretary, Ms Coleridge, everybody.  If I've left out anybody's name, I have not done so with any personal spite or malice, and I thank you very much.  We shall now adjourn.

MS COLERIDGE: Thank you, Chairperson.  All rise.
HEARING ADJOURNS