Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-03

DINA ANVARI: I must say that when this incident happened, it was in the middle of our fasting month, which basically we don't eat or drink food from sunrise to sunset.
	Right before this vast month starts, which is on the 2nd of March, we have four days of celebration, which are called (indistinct), or (indistinct) days.  It works very well within the Bahai calender, but I am not going to get into that here.
	Anyway, those for days every year, is dedicated to basically giving to others in terms of food and joy and everything.  I suppose the closest thing you can come to it, is Christmas in the Christian terminology.
	But it is not, but that is the closest thing I can refer you to.  So, right, two weeks before that, we were all at the Bahai Centre, all of us from you know, Bahai's from King William's Town, East London, I think even Cradock, there were a whole lot of people who were there.
	If I am not mistaken, Chamaam's mother had actually invited everybody because this is an individual thing that you can do, had invited everybody for lunch, so we had almost 80, 90 people there, mixed, very mixed group.

MR PRIOR: On the day of the incident, it was a Sunday and you also indicated in your questioning, that that wasn't a regular thing that your husband and the two other gentlemen would have been there.
	Could you maybe just briefly expand on that?

DINA ANVARI: Actually at the same Sunday or Saturday that we were all at the Bahai Centre, we received the invitation, it was just distributed.  My husband and I both were invited to that meeting on Sunday and Chamaam and Rios, to go.  I didn't know Rios and Chamaam were going to be there.
	I only found out on Saturday when I saw Rios at our classes that he said no, I am also invited to that meeting.  The meeting was on family life, basically promoting family units as a unit.  You know, to uplift them and give the children the morality and the spirituality ironically to grow up to be individuals who would not end up doing what happened to them that day.
	You know, we realise that the world was going in such a way that it is children that are doing what they are doing, and we figured if we start from, and that was the year of family by the way, that is where we have to start, to empower the parents, how to teach the children - it is not a spiritual education so they would not fall into those kinds of a ...

MR PRIOR: Yes, now Dr Bacshanderi, was he also invited, do you know?

DINA ANVARI: Yes, yes, we found that out.

MR PRIOR: Do you know if they all arrived at the Centre together, from your own knowledge?

DINA ANVARI: No, my husband actually left two hours early.  He wanted to come to the Bahai Centre, you know there were some repairs that he had to do, and some painting.

MR PRIOR: What car did he drive?

DINA ANVARI: He had the Sierra.

MR PRIOR: Was that a fairly old car?

DINA ANVARI: Yes, it is a 1984 Sierra station wagon, it was pretty ...

MR PRIOR: And Dr Bacshanderi, what was his car?  Did you know what he drove?

DINA ANVARI: Yes, he had his Alfa Romeo and that is a pretty old car, too.

MR PRIOR: And the Jetta, was that ...

DINA ANVARI: The Jetta was Mr Razavi's, who had - he was so happy about getting it about a month ago from Fort Hare.

MR PRIOR: So it was a brand new motor vehicle?

DINA ANVARI: Brand new.  If I am not mistaken, that was maybe the first time or the second time that he had come to the Bahai Centre with that particular car.

MR PRIOR: You then learnt about the incident, is that correct?

DINA ANVARI: Yes.  About two o'clock, you see, my husband was in charge of the Bahai Centre, so every time they would phone, there was a robbery in the Bahai Centre, which there was a lot of those days, and the red alert would phone my husband and tell him that there is a robbery in the Bahai Centre, the same time that they would inform the Police in Mdantsane.
	Usually, some times it was in the middle of the night, so he wouldn't go, but usually in the morning, if it was anything like that, he would go and when I mentioned with all respect to Mdantsane Police, they would get there on the same time, basically to check what has happened.
	So, when they phoned me and they asked for my husband and he was a Police from Mdantsane, they identified themselves, I got okay, well, the alarm has gone off again, and I just told them, look, he is already there, don't worry, probably it is a false alarm.
	They said who are you and I said I am his wife, and they said that you need to go to Cecilia Makawane, that is basically all they said, and then I said what, there has been some shooting, you just have to go to Cecilia Makawane and they wouldn't tell me anything and they hung up.
	I phoned Cecilia Makawane and as soon as I introduced myself, they also hung up, or no, they didn't, they just left the phone and they went.  And that is when I found out.

MR PRIOR: All right, and did you go to the hospital?

DINA ANVARI: Yes.  He had the car, so I had to actually, it took me about two minutes, three minutes, to find out somebody who - and then our friends just walked in coming from actually the Bacshanderi's house, realising that all the doors and windows are open and there is nobody inside the house, so they were sort of anxious, what has happened.
	They came to our house to find out what is happening to them, and I had no idea.  So I told them what I had heard, and we both went to Cecilia Makawane Hospital.  There I met with parents of Chamaam and they were crying and all I asked was, what had happened and he said, finished, and immediately I - and I was thinking why are they crying because I thought it was just my husband, I had no idea what has happened.
	He said no Chamaam was finished, and I - you know it just took us some time before I realised it actually has happened.

MR PRIOR: Did your husband, did he die at the hospital?

DINA ANVARI: No, no, as I say it took me some time to realise what was happening, they said Chamaam has finished, then I realised yes, Chamaam was the one he was mentioning when he said finished and that my husband was killed two hours before that already.
	It was about two o'clock that I got there, so it was already...

MR PRIOR: I am going to leave off at this point, because I understand that what you want to say further is of a very personal nature, and you want some time with Mrs Razavi to consider what you are going to say.

DINA ANVARI: I appreciate it.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: .

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I just indicate that I have been approached by our Investigative Superintendent, who indicated that there was a witness, a person who was present at Da Gama.  I haven't had the opportunity of speaking to that person, could I maybe just have a moment to enquire whether that person wishes to ...

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, you know the problem that we have with time, that we were asked to finish early this afternoon.

MR PRIOR: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I gave an undertaking that we would try to do so.  It is now five minutes to four.  I think you can consult with the witness, decide if the witness is sufficiently relevant and then ask them to be here on the 14th.

MR PRIOR: As the Committee pleases, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Unless there is anybody who wants to say anything now, we will adjourn until the 14th.
	I would thank all of you who have been here for your patience in the delays that we have had and the quiet manner you sat listening to the evidence, and I hope that you will be able to be back here on the 14th.
	I would also request those, and I know it is a difficult request, but I would request those responsible for transcribing the record, to see if it is possible to have the record transcribed before we reconvene on the 14th.
	I know that there are two other sittings taking place at the time, and appreciate that it might be an impossible task.  But if it can be done, we would be very grateful.