Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-01-17

FIKILE MABASO: Because I had a small child she offered to make the enquiries, so that I could remain at home with that baby.

CHAIRPERSON: At CR Swart they didn't tell her about the names of the people that had died.

FIKILE MABASO: They did not tell her on the first instance.

CHAIRPERSON: Did she go there on a second occasion?

FIKILE MABASO: I do not know if she returned to CR Swart per se, but she went some place where she was given assistance so that the police eventually showed her photos.

CHAIRPERSON: You've mentioned the name Diaconia.

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, that is where she went to seek assistance when the police refused to reveal where the bodies or where the people were who had been in the vehicle.

CHAIRPERSON: And after she'd been to Diaconia, did she go to the police again?

FIKILE MABASO: That is what she informed me.

CHAIRPERSON: And where did she identify the body of your husband, where was that?

FIKILE MABASO: She was shown a photo and that is where she identified him.  I do not know when she went to the mortuary in Gail Street, but I went there ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, before you talk about going there, after your sister went to Diaconia for assistance, who showed her a photograph of your husband?

FIKILE MABASO: It was the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you with her at the time?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Did she come and tell you that she'd seen a photograph?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What happened after that?

FIKILE MABASO: We tried to get permission to remove the bodies but at first that permission was refused, but some attorney assisted us to be able to get hold of the body so that we could proceed with funeral arrangements.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go to the mortuary?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see the body of your husband?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you make enquiries as to why your husband was killed or by who he was killed?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, I approached an attorney, Mr Molaba, to make those enquiries.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and what happened then?

FIKILE MABASO: We were informed that the police had shot them in self-defence.

CHAIRPERSON: They told Molaba and Molaba tells you this?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.  Mr Webster?

MR WEBSTER: I have no further questions, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Counsel.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Mrs Mabaso, didn't you identify the body of your husband?

MR LAX: She says she did, Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: She says she didn't.

MR LAX: No, she said she did.

MR VISSER: Then I missed it.  Because that would accord with Exhibit F, page 2.

MR LAX: Correct.

MR VISSER: Did you know a person by the name of Thabani Mamela?

FIKILE MABASO: No, I only learnt of that person after this incident.

MR VISSER: Do you know whether he was a friend of your late husband?

FIKILE MABASO: No, I did not know about that.

MR VISSER: Is it possible that your late husband and Mr Mamela could have done things about which you didn't know?

FIKILE MABASO: It is possible.

MR VISSER: I have no further questions. - perhaps just one, Mr Chairman.
	Was your husband involved in politics as far as you know?

FIKILE MABASO: No, I did not have information to that regard.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of work did your husband do?

FIKILE MABASO: He worked at Jacobs.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any idea as to what kind of work he did at Jacobs?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he in regular employment?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he go to work each day in the morning and return home in the evening each day, from work?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: This motorcar that you heard about, who did that belong to?

FIKILE MABASO: It belonged to Charles or Sammy, I've forgotten.

CHAIRPERSON: Did Charles live in the same are that you live in at that time?

FIKILE MABASO: He resided at D-Section, which was a different section from ours.

CHAIRPERSON: After your husband's death, did you meet Charles to discuss anything with him about your husband's death?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether he's still alive?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, he's still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: You made no enquiries - you suspected your husband had been killed in a car belonging to Charles, and you made no enquiries from him as to how your husband was killed?

FIKILE MABASO: I only knew Charles from the time that he used to come to my home, but I was not aware of his address, I did not know where he resided, I just knew that he was at D-Section.

CHAIRPERSON: After your husband's death did Charles never come to your house?

FIKILE MABASO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions by counsel?

MR VISSER: Chairperson, perhaps just to be of some assistance.
	You wouldn't know where one could contact Charles, to find out what happened to the motor car?

FIKILE MABASO: You could contact my sister who has that knowledge.

MR VISSER: Well you can tell your counsel about that.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

MS THABETHE: No questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

ADV BOSMAN: Ms Mabaso, do you have any information about the four other children of your husband?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Are they still all four alive?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Who is maintaining them?

FIKILE MABASO: They are being maintained by their mothers.

ADV BOSMAN: Are they different mothers?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Do you know their names?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Will you give their names to the Evidence Leader?  Thank you.  Just one more question.  Do they know about this hearing?  Did you tell them that you were coming here?

FIKILE MABASO: Yes, they know about it but they were not informed as to the fact that we are coming here today because I also received the news only yesterday.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible - no microphone) necessary steps to ...(inaudible)

MS THABETHE: I'll do so, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Webster?

MR WEBSTER: That is the evidence from the family, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We will take a short break of 15
minutes now and resume thereafter.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) that you wish to highlight in ...

UNKNOWN: Yes, there is one aspect which was raised on the evidence in cross-examination, to which I will refer you to.  It's at page 61.  I will refer you to it very briefly.
	Chairperson, similarly we do intend to follow literally the direction issued by the original Amnesty Committee, that in future the political background and the position of applicants need not be rehashed, need not be given in evidence again because it has been accepted and we don't propose to deal with any of that in any detail.

CHAIRPERSON: It's adequately covered in their applications.

MR VISSER: Yes, yes.
	Chairperson, so what we would like to do, you've heard the evidence and certainly again I don't want to rehash all of that, perhaps we could be of some assistance with references to the bundle to ease your task when you want to make references when writing your judgment.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.