Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

GEORGE DUBE: There were a lot of things, the comrades were also complaining no cigarettes and all that.  So I decided that I should go to town to see our chief rep, to tell him about our problems, maybe he can help because they were there.  There was Comrade Maake who was our chief rep at that time, the late Comrade Maake.  So I told the people there, the officers that I want to go to town can they give me somehow a lift to Luanda.  They said they are going to try to give me a lift to go and see my chief rep.  So I saw time was just passing by and then nothing was happening, so I decided that I would go there on my own.  I sold my shirt to the comrades in the camp of MPLA.  So they gave me some money.  I saw that this money is enough for me to get a bus to go to Luanda to see our chief rep, so I did so.
 I left the camp, I went to the bus terminus, it's a nearby town about five kilometres from our camp.  At the bus terminus this money I had it was old currency of last year, before they changed the currency.  The currency of Angola 
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was changed in January 1977 if I am not mistaken for only 30 days. So I still had the old Portuguese currency.  So I went to the bank because I had this new currency and this old currency so I wanted to get some money for provisions for the journey.  When I entered the bank I gave it to the bank teller that please can you change this old currency for me.  I couldn't speak Portuguese properly at that time, unlike now I can speak Portuguese properly, so this guy realised that no this fellow this is not an Angolan, his Portuguese is not so all right.
REV. FINCA: And so you were arrested?

GEORGE DUBE: Ja. He called the police because at that time I had a lot of beard I never shaved it, so I was suspected to be a supporter of Savimbi.  So he called the police in, the police took me, they told me they are going to help me.  The police station is just near the bank there.  I slept there.  So they also couldn't speak English, but they asked me, they've got a little English that they speak, so I told them that I am from Tanzania because all of us, the 16 of us we had passports from Tanzania when we came there, we were each given a Tanzanian passport.  Our passports are written "Students".  So I told them I am a student from Tanzania, so I came here.  So they asked me where are you going?  I said I am going to Luanda to see our chief rep of ANC.  So I was taken to Luanda by plane with the security, MPLA security.  So we went the two of us to Luanda.  When I arrived there in Luanda I was locked up in a small house, it's a camp like, a small cell, I found another guy there inside that cell.  REV. FINCA:   Were you locked up by the ...(intervention)

GEORGE DUBE: In Luanda now.
REV. FINCA: By the Angolans or?
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GEORGE DUBE: By Angolans.
REV. FINCA: Okay.

GEORGE DUBE: So after about 8 o'clock, we arrived there at about 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock in the evening, at about 8 o'clock in the evening I was taken out of that place, I was put in a Landrover and then I was driven to a certain place, that's one I may say it's a prison or - they call it Casa de Recusawu(?), the house of recruiting, something like that.  I was put there and I was told that they will come in the morning and see me.  They left me there.  So when I entered there I saw on my own that no this place is a prison.  There were a lot of people there, mixed up, French people speaking there, Portuguese and Unita and soldiers wearing uniform and FNLA.
 So I stayed in there I thought maybe tomorrow morning they will come and collect me.  They never came.  So now I couldn't speak with anybody because I didn't understand the language these people were speaking.  So I think you will realise or rather feel ...(intervention)
REV. FINCA: ...to come to the point that you landed with the ANC and come to the point of how you were treated by the ANC.

GEORGE DUBE: Okay.
REV. FINCA: For now you are still with the Angolans?

GEORGE DUBE: Ja, ja, ja.  So okay alright I was feeling bad there because I was arrested so I couldn't understand the language of these people.  So I had to learn Portuguese there, that's where I learned Portuguese because I stayed there for three years being locked up.  Being busy telling these people time and again that they should call the ANC because these officers who were the owners of this place,
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who were keeping this prison they were telling us that your problem is not our problem, it's ANC problem.  The ANC is the one who is supposed to solve your problem.  So I've been telling them that why don't you call them to come and solve our problem.  Comrade Mzwai was there I remember, he was chief of security at that time, and Comrade Masondo.  
 So they came after one year me being there.  I was the first to arrive in that prison.  I was joined by other colleagues from the ANC.  Now they were staying in the camp in town there.  They are the ones who told me that there is Comrade Nzwai there whom I saw in Tanzania, the time I arrived there, that there are new comrades who are staying, Angolan soldiers there.  So I knew that Mzwai is there so I was telling these officers to call Mzwai to come and solve our problems that we can't just be staying here rotting in this place, doing nothing.  So he appeared after one year.  He appeared again then the third year when we have already done hunger strike of 19 days, me and the other three guys, we were 12 now already, one girl, 11 boys and one girl in that prison.  To an extent that one of our comrades ran away from that prison, Tom Mabinda, a tall, hefty guy, he jumped the wall, the walls had glasses in around it, so he put a blanket and then he jumped over it.  He jumped over, he ran away he went to town.  I don't know what he did in town so he was arrested, he was brought back with handcuffs.  He slept with handcuffs for two weeks in a single cell.  So when the food was being brought for them, those who were staying in the single cells he came out he didn't want to go back there.  So the officers came around there, then one Coloured officer, the chief of the Investigation Department shot him with an AK47.  Three bullets in the abdomen.  He 
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died instantly.  That is Tom Mabinda he was from Orlando East that is what he told me.
 So alright we did a hunger strike and then after three years the three of us, there were nine comrades who were afraid, nine colleagues who was afraid to join us, three of us, me and another Coloured guy from Cape Town.  So we were released after 19 days.  So the comrades came there those days to ask me, they came with some trousers and a shirt and so forth, for the first time they had given us clothing.  So these comrades they called me there, they asked me that I must tell them who sent me here then, that is here, I am somehow I am being sent by Boers here is it to come and spy.  I got angry I slammed the door, I came out of that office, I never talked to them anymore because I was angry.  They were asking me something which was somehow awkward, it was an insult to me.  So they called the other guys they were asking this very question I don't know, it's two or three guys of us we were called around there.  
 So from there, after the hunger strike they had the story that there are ANC people that are dying there.  So they came to collect us.  So me I was still a bit strong because we were taken to the hospital twice, brought back and then we were told that we must eat, we can't take you to ANC being like this.  We said we don't want to eat anything, we are going to eat only at the residence of the ANC, not here ...(intervention)
REV. FINCA: Okay, okay George.  And when were you then arrested by the ANC?