Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

CHAIRPERSON: As is usual, I'll ask one of the Commissioners to assist you in your statement, I'll ask Yasmin Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Ms Shilabe, are you able to hear me clearly?

UNKNOWN: Yes I can hear you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Tell me about yourself and how long you've lived in Ivory Park and how many members there are in your family.

UNKNOWN: I arrived in 1992 at Ivory Park when this incident occurred. Shots were fired at about three o'clock in the morning whilst we were asleep.  I felt I'm not brave to remain in the house alone then I ran to my neighbour's house. I found them at the door who were ...(indistinct) people who were just about to run away.
 I went to the back of this group after hiding myself behind them, shots were fired at us.  After they shot they drove away and then we started counting those who were injured, I took one of the parents' children on my back and ran to the hospital.  I was not well dressed, then I went inside my house and got dressed.  When we arrived at one section of the township we went into one house and asked for transport to the hospital.  As we drive past the field we saw this Casper then this man said we must take another road because those people might shoot at us. 
 What I remember on our way to the hospital, we were stopped by a police vehicle who asked us where we were TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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headed, and we told them people were shot, we told them we don't know by whom. They said, were AK 47 rifles used, we said we don't know.  They left us then we continued on our route to the hospital. The child to this mother that I was carrying on my back was not allowed to get into the hospital so I took this child because her mother was not allowed in.  Then they took x-rays, she was vomiting blood, we went back home afterwards. We found that Mr Ingwenya had left , he was shot and taken by one man to the hospital, that's when we went back and that's where the whole story ends.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, I'm going to ask you some questions just to make sure that I'm clear. Did you live next to any of the previous witnesses?

UNKNOWN: Yes it is so. I stayed with them.

YASMINE SOOKA: And were you staying alone in your shack?

UNKNOWN: Yes I stayed alone in my shack.

YASMINE SOOKA: So you went to seek shelter in the garage as well?

UNKNOWN: Yes it is so. I left my shack and I ran to the garage.

YASMINE SOOKA: So you also ran with them to the Umfuleni section, is that right?

UNKNOWN: No I had not yet arrived at the garage when they ran to Umfuleni section.

YASMINE SOOKA: So you arrived at the shack when they were coming back?

UNKNOWN: I think so because I found them at the garage.

YASMINE SOOKA: When there was this attack on the house, were you able to see any of the faces of faces of the men who were shooting?

UNKNOWN: I didn't see a thing because I hid myself TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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underneath the counter.

YASMINE SOOKA: So all you saw were the gunshots flying around the room?

UNKNOWN: Yes it is correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: And were you at all hurt in this incident?

UNKNOWN: I didn't sustain any injuries.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mentioned that on your way to the hospital you saw a Casper.  Can you tell me what the colour of the Casper was?

UNKNOWN: It was during the night, however it looked sort of dark green and grey, it was during the night, I couldn't see clearly.

YASMINE SOOKA: And the person that you spoke to, was that a policeman or a soldier?

UNKNOWN: When we left for hospital, it was a policeman.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mention also that he told you not to go because you might be shot. Was this a white policeman or a black policeman?

UNKNOWN: It was a mixed group, There were white policemen and black policemen.

YASMINE SOOKA: What language were they speaking at the time?

CHAIRPERSON: They were speaking Zulu.

YASMINE SOOKA: When you arrived at the hospital you also say that your neighbour was not allowed into the hospital. Why was this?

UNKNOWN: She was carrying a small child on her back,
there was a room where we were not allowed with small children inside the hospital.  Then I decided to take the child into the hospital, then she undertook x-rays in the hospital.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you make any statement to the police after TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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this had happened?

UNKNOWN: No. (presumed,no translation here)

YASMINE SOOKA: In your statement you also mention that shacks were burning in that area. When did you notice that.

UNKNOWN: Before they started shooting there were already shacks burning.

YASMINE SOOKA: When you returned back home, was your shack still standing?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: What was your impression of how many people had been hurt and how many shacks had been burning?

UNKNOWN: I could not explain how many shacks were burned because that was not my section where I saw the shacks.

YASMINE SOOKA: So in your section, no shacks had been burned?

UNKNOWN: No there were no shacks burned in our section.

YASMINE SOOKA: In the days that came afterwards, did you speak to anybody else about this incident?

UNKNOWN: Except my neighbours, I talked to no one.

YASMINE SOOKA: Had all the sections in Ivory been attacked or was it just a few sections and a few streets?

UNKNOWN: It was about two section which were attacked.

YASMINE SOOKA: And only in the one section, shacks had been burned?

UNKNOWN: I cannot clearly tell but where I observed was in one section that shacks were burned.

YASMINE SOOKA: Who did you suspect could these attackers have been?

UNKNOWN: I would be lying, I don't know who attacked us.

YASMINE SOOKA: How many months have you been living in Ivory TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
 
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Park before this attack took place?

UNKNOWN: I cannot remember but I think it was about six months.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were you involved in any political activity in the area?

UNKNOWN: No. I was not ever involved in such activities.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you know your neighbours well before this?

UNKNOWN: Yes they were known to me.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you Mrs Shilabe, I will ask some of our commissioners to ask you some questions. Commissioner Joyce Seroke, Commissioner Hugh Lewin?

MR LEWIN: If I could just ask one question which I asked the other two witnesses, what do you think was happening that night?

UNKNOWN: I do not know because even during the day there was nothing happening.  We heard nothing, when we were asleep during the night we heard gunshots.

MR LEWIN: And in the discussions you've had afterwards, have you come up with any ideas yourselves as to what was happening and why?

UNKNOWN: I would be lying, I know nothing. I had just arrived in that vicinity.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe if I can ask you, is it possible that something like this happened and you as neighbours, you didn't discuss it to a point of being much more helpful to the Commission as to what might have happened, because normally in a residential area, if something like this happens, people talk a lot about what has happened and that TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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will help us a lot as Commission if we can share, even speculations or whatever the talk that went around that time?

UNKNOWN: To tell the truth, we never discussed this thing, we were busy treating those who were injured, trying to identify those who were injured or who sustained injuries, so we didn't get a chance to talk about this incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: I notice in your statement that you say a relative of yours died in the attack.  Can you tell me who that was.

UNKNOWN: It was a child of my neighbour, where I ran for shelter.

YASMINE SOOKA: To your knowledge, had any attack like this taken place before in Ivory Park?

UNKNOWN: It had never occurred.

YASMINE SOOKA: So this the first time there was an attack?