Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1998-10-23

NKOSINATHI IMMANUEL NTULI: We believed that it could be that he did in fact contact the Police because in most cases, taxi drivers in the area, were close to the kwaZulu Police, so there was that belief that he may have done it.
	Thereafter I got into the car and I told him, I asked him to reverse, because the comrades wanted to speak to him.  He hesitated because he indicated that he wanted to move forward.  I tried to reassure him that he shouldn't be afraid, because we just wanted to question him because of a certain problem.  
	He asked what the problem was about and I told him that we have heard rumours that he was the one who had contacted the Police with regards to Matobela's death.  When I told him this, he tried to move the car forward and the car did move and I tried to stop him, by grabbing the steering wheel.  He fought me off because he was bigger than me.
	When he hit me, I also felt it.  I took out the knife and I stabbed him twice at the time.  The car was all over the road.  Some of the comrades realised that there was a problem in the car, and they came and got into the car, and they told him that they want to speak to him, because of the rumour that had been circulating.
	He seemed to be listening.  We told him to get the car into another street, which was the second street from the main road.  He seemed to be loosing consciousness at that time, and some of the comrades pushed him aside.
	I got off and I went to sit behind the steering wheel.  I drove the vehicle and as I turned the corner, getting into another street just below, he opened the door and tried to run away.  As he opened the door, I stabbed him again and he ran away.
	The people sitting behind, I think at the time the conductor was no longer there.  The comrades that had been left on the street, would meet us at an appointed point.  As Ndlandhla got off the car, I was the first one to alight, because apparently the sliding door at the back had a problem.
	He ran to a nearby house and he fell as he arrived at this house.  I met up with him there and I stabbed him again because at the time, it appeared to me that he seemed to know about the issue.
	When I first got onto the car, he tried to move the car, also start the car when I told him about the problem, and I realised that he must know about it.  If he did not know about it, if he did not have a problem, he would not have tried to run away if he was innocent.
	After stabbing him, I left him there and I went back and I met up with some of the comrades and they asked me where he was, and I explained to them that he was at that particular house.
	On our way back, we discussed that if he hadn't run away or after questioning him, we would have killed him anyway because during that time, we had problems regarding the kwaZulu Police and IFP killing our comrades.
	Therefore nobody else but ourselves, had to protect our organisation and our members.  The kwaZulu Police worked hand in hand with the IFP.  When the other comrades arrived, we discussed that the car was parked on a hidden road, we should take it back to a street above, that it towards the rank, so that the others could see it.
	We left the car there with the keys inside and we left.  Thereafter our parents and the ANC leader in the area, who was not present during those days because he was sought after by the Police, he would sometimes come and sometimes he would leave, he would just come to attend meetings or maybe if there had been an incident, he would arrive.
	Thereafter ...

MR LAX: Who was this ANC leader that you are referring to?

NKOSINATHI IMMANUEL NTULI: Mr Eden Mongathi.  After that, our parents together with Eden Mongathi who was not present when this incident occurred, and who had not known about it, they were surprised, they were shocked that this taxi man had been killed.
	Other taxi people arrived and they removed the car.  After this incident, we fled and we went out separate ways because we knew that the kwaZulu Police would come and they would not arrest, but shoot us.  
	With regards to the community, it was shocked.  A meeting had to be called where an explanation should be given to the community.  I did not attend that meeting.  I was mainly sent as the person who had killed Ndlandhla and people did not know why.
	At that meeting the community of Ward 1 received an explanation from other comrades with regards to the reasons for Ndlandhla's death, that is we had discovered that he was the one that had contacted the Police about the movements of Nduduzi.
	The Police had stopped the car that he was travelling in and he was removed from the car, and shot.  The community understood, but after that there was a problem, that is taxi's stopped running for about two weeks.
	The taxi's did not run in the kwaMakutha area and the community complained about this.  That is why that meeting was called and Ndlandhla's death was explained to the community.
	After that, taxi drivers complained and they said that they would avenge themselves.  After a few days, about three or four days, some people who were armed arrived at kwaMakutha and shot at comrades.  The comrades that I remember to have died on that day were three or four.
	They said that they were revenging.  There was a problem in the community, killing that taxi driver, had left to the death of other people.
	There had to be a way to resolve the issue, the taxi drivers and the community held a meeting and taxi drivers were told why Ndlandhla had been killed.

MR MCHUNU: You say the community members explained to who, to the taxi drivers, to the taxi owners?

NKOSINATHI IMMANUEL NTULI: Yes, there was a meeting between the community and the taxi drivers.  The community explained to the taxi drivers the reason for Ndlandhla's death, flowing from the meeting we had had before with them.
	Discussions were held with taxi drivers and it was resolved that taxi's would return and start working in the area.  Taxi drivers requested that I should be arrested. 
	Amongst the taxi drivers were people called Isincabi who were at the forefront at handling the issue of Ndlandhla's death.  We suspect these were the very same people who had come in the night, to kill these other comrades.
	After a few days, taxi's returned to the area and started working as normal.  I was the one person who was, or who had a problem, because my name was mentioned in the killing of Ndlandhla. I did not even spend my evenings at home.

MR MCHUNU: Let me just again interrupt.  How did it come about that finally you landed in the hands of the Police, in other words, you were arrested?

NKOSINATHI IMMANUEL NTULI: When I saw my parents, they asked me about it, and I explained.  Although I did not tell them the complete truth, I did explain that I was present amongst the people who killed him.  They said there was nothing that they could do, if you have committed a crime, you must face the might of the law.   I found it difficult to do this, because I knew that the kwaZulu Police used to kill people at the time.
	They had killed many other comrades.  Therefore I was afraid to go to them.  A few days elapsed and my parents sent for me and when I arrived, they told me the same thing, that I should go to the Police so that they can also be free.
	I could not really oppose what my parents were saying, I finally agreed that I would go.  I made a request that other Policemen for example from the South African Police, should also be present, because I was afraid of the kwaZulu Police.
	We went to the police station, I went with my father and a lawyer.   We went to the police station and on arrival, the Police commented me for handing myself over and I made a statement and I was given bail and the trial commenced thereafter, and eventually I was convicted.

MR MCHUNU: What was your relationship with the deceased, Mr Ndlandhla Msani?  How did you relate in other words, with him?