Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-12

CHAIRPERSON: I am saying are you putting this as a fact to this witness?

MR BERGER: In fact Chairperson, George Khumalo was arrested for the murder of Amos Miga and was subsequently released.  My understanding is that he was given a suspended sentence.
	After his release, he joined forces with Mplupeki Nana Tshabangu and together they terrorised the area of Boipatong.  Do you know anything about that Mr Khanyile?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No.

MR BERGER: Is it not correct that gangs from kwaMadala such as Victor Geswa, Nana Tshabangu, George Khumalo were responsible for terrorising the residents of Boipatong, isn't that what was happening?

VINCENT KHANYILE: It never came to our attention in kwaMadala.

MR BERGER: Isn't it correct that the people, the IFP members and I must correct you Mr Khanyile, it wasn't Zulu speaking people, it was specific IFP members who were targeted because they were terrorising the residents of Boipatong.  Isn't that what was happening at that time?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Mr Berger, as I have explained yesterday, at the beginning of this issue, it was directed against the Zulu speaking.  If you were born a Zulu speaking person, you were on the way to be killed, but after some time, this problem was rectified and people were told that it is, there is no instruction that Zulu's should be killed, because not all the Zulu's are IFP members.
	Therefore the talk have changed, that IFP people were to be killed.

MR BERGER: How is it possible then that at the time of the attack on Boipatong, there was still so many Zulu speaking people resident in Boipatong?  Not only that there were so many Zulu speaking residents still in Boipatong, but that people that were related to key IFP figures, such as for example the parents-in-law of Mr Mfana Zulu, they were living in Boipatong without any threats being directed at them.  How do you explain that Mr Khanyile?

VINCENT KHANYILE: First I would like to explain to Mr Berger that people who were being killed, they were Zulu's who were coming from KwaZulu Natal.  Those who were Zulu's by birth in this place, were not involved in this killing.
	With regard to the fathers-in-law of Mr Mtwana Zulu, I don't know what arrangement they have made with the comrades that they shouldn't be killed.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, what do you know about the hitsquads from Msinga?

VINCENT KHANYILE: That never existed.

MR BERGER: What do you know about the 40 or 50 men who came from Msinga, who were supported by the residents of kwaMadala hostel?

VINCENT KHANYILE: To explain I would say people were from Msinga, maybe they were not even over 10.   That there was a hitsquad from Msinga, that never occurred.

MR BERGER: What do you say of the 40 to 50 people that Mr Victor Mthembu spoke about who were under the command of Mr Damara Qonqo, who were present and remained at the hostel from 1990 all the way through 1992 and who held sway over the residents of kwaMadala?

INTERPRETER: Can you please repeat your last sentence?

MR BERGER: And according to Mr Victor Mthembu, these men from Msinga held sway, held a command over the people of kwaMadala?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Mr Berger, yesterday I have explained to you about the leadership in kwaMadala hostel.  If there were people coming from Msinga who were part of the leadership, I would have explained that to you.
	What I am trying to say to you is, whatever you are asking me about, never happened.

MR BERGER: So, do you dispute the evidence of the Vice-Chairperson of the Youth Committee, Mr Victor Mthembu on that point?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Yes, without doubt, I deny that.

MR BERGER: What do you know about the Amabutu at kwaMadala?

VINCENT KHANYILE: What I can explain is that I shall start to explain to you what kind of people are referred to as Amabutu.
	No residents of kwaMadala were called Amabutu, however, when we go out whether to a rally or somewhere else, armed with out traditional weapons, that is where we are referred to as Amabutu.

MR BERGER: When you left kwaMadala on the night of the 17th, to attack Boipatong, were you the Amabutu?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Yes.  Yes, we were like Amabutu.

MR BERGER: You were the warriors, is that correct?  That is what Amabutu means?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Is it also correct that when the call was made for the Amabutu to go to the stadium on that Wednesday night, that the Amabutu knew to take their weapons to the stadium?

VINCENT KHANYILE: That is what I heard, I heard that from the stadium.

MR BERGER: What I am putting to you is that, when the call came to go to the stadium, you knew that this was the call for the attack and that is when you took your weapons?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No, that is not true.

MR BERGER: When you got to the stadium on Wednesday night, were you given any instructions on how the attack on Boipatong was going to be carried out?

VINCENT KHANYILE: We were only told that we should arm ourselves to go and attack Boipatong.  However people who were mostly required, were the people who were guarding inside the place, who were called as the comrades.  Therefore I understood it to mean that the people whom we were supposed to attack first, were the comrades.
	We were not going to start attacking the community, we first have to meet the comrades and attack them.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, please listen carefully to this question.
	Were you specifically instructed to attack the comrades or the Self Defence Units or were you instructed to attack the residents of Boipatong?

VINCENT KHANYILE: We were instructed to go and attack Boipatong.  How we were going to enter it and how we were going to attack, was not discussed.

MR BERGER: Who gave the instruction?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Mr Qonqo, together with Mr Mkhize.

MR BERGER: Well, I am sure they didn't speak in unison, so I want to ask you who actually gave the instruction that you should attack Boipatong, the residents of Boipatong?

VINCENT KHANYILE: If I remember well, those words were said by Mr Qonqo.

MR BERGER: Can you remember his words, what he said?

VINCENT KHANYILE: If I remember well, he said today is the day to avenge against our enemies.

MR BERGER: What else did he say?

VINCENT KHANYILE: He didn't continue further, he said each and everyone must go and fetch or her arms.  Those who wished to use firearms or guns, must contact him.

MR BERGER: What did Mr Mkhize said?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I can't remember what he exactly said on that day because he didn't say much.

MR BERGER: Besides what you have just told the Committee, there was no other discussion about plans or who to target, is that correct?

VINCENT KHANYILE: We were told to go and attack Boipatong.

MR BERGER: You knew at the time that the Army patrolled in that area around kwaMadala, am I right?

VINCENT KHANYILE: They used to patrol, but not every day.

MR BERGER: You also knew that Iscor Security personnel patrolled in that area around the hostel, didn't you?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I don't understand when you refer to Iscor workers or the guards who were patrolling the area.  Can you repeat the area?

MR BERGER: I said Iscor Security personnel.

VINCENT KHANYILE: They were there patrolling, but not every day.  I didn't see them every day patrolling the area.

MR BERGER: Well, there were people, guards, employed by Iscor who were stationed at the main gate, you knew that, did you not?

VINCENT KHANYILE: That is true.

MR BERGER: How did you think you were going to get out of the main gate with hundreds of men armed with dangerous weapons and this would not be seen by the Iscor personnel at the main gate?