Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-06-28

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: The day on which I was arrested I was taken to Mavatshe.  I stayed there for a long period, after a long time I was taken to the offices of the police who were investigating the cases by then.  That person I met first was Gabriel Ramushwana.
	Gabriel Ramushwana is the person who interrogated me for a while.  His first question was why I was arrested, 'Reverend, why are you arrested?'  Then I answered 'I don't know, I'm suspecting that now that I'm in this office, they wanted to tell me why I am arrested.'  He further questioned me about the meetings in which he was asking whether I was present.  So, where I attended, I said yes, where I didn't attend, then I said no.
	After a while he took out some photos of a burnt police station and corpse which were burnt there and said, if you can go before the court of law and find that there are people who damaged like this, what do you think it will be the judgement of this case?  Then I said I don't know because what you are showing me, I don't know.  And then he said you don't want to tell me the truth, then I will take you to police who will not be able to listen to what you are saying and then you will relate that in a difficult way.
	And then I tried to show that if he is thinking that I know something concerning the bombing of the police station, then I said I know nothing.  But what I know is that there were two - or there were boys who came to my place on a certain date.  Those boys ...(intervention)

MS MTANGA: ...(indistinct) we have evidence about the background of your arrest.  What we'd like you to confine your evidence to are the methods of torture, the pulling of hair, who did it on you.

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: I was assaulted by fists as I entered the office where there were those policemen and I didn't know who beat me because there were so many.  As I tried to count there were about eight or more than eight.
	After that, I was force to sit in the water and I was forced to take of my clothes with my underpants and a bag which was wet which, every time water was poured with that bag, I was unable to breathe.  It was tightened here around my neck and I was handcuffed backwards.  After that I was forced to jump standing by wall, frog jumping.

SISI KHAMPEPE: ...(indistinct) I thought you were trying to confine Rev Phosiwa so the methods of torture that he says has not been disclosed by the applicants.

MS MTANGA: Yes, Chair.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I recollect the evidence, the frog jumping method has been admitted, maybe you may be allowed through the Chair, is there anything that he is disputing from the evidence given by the applicants?  The methods of torture already described by the applicants as having been administered on him, is he saying they have not to that extent complied with the requirement of full disclosure, if so, what is it that he says was not disclosed by the applicants?

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Rev Phosiwa, on page 156 of this bundle, the second paragraph, Chairperson, I think it's the fifth line.  You've said that
"I didn't know what was going to happen.  That is where the electric shocking took place on my private parts."
You've heard the evidence of the applicants that they say they never applied electrical shocks of the private parts of the people that they detained.  I want you to tell this Committee who applied electrical shocks on your private parts, do you know who applied the electrical shocks?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: By then, as I was assaulted, I was asked as to I have got how many children.  I said I've got four and they said that's all.  I didn't know what they mean when they said it's over now.  It's then that four people sat on my legs because I was lying on my back, by two people, two sitting on the other leg, others assisted me here on the head, it is then that I was - something was happening in my genitals and it took a long time and it was very painful.  That happened to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, now can you identify any of your assailants at that occasion, when you were having these electric shocks?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: I cannot recall who did that because it was done while I was with the bag covering my face.

MS MTANGA: Who were the people present?  You said there were eight people when you were being tortured.  Who were these eight people who were present at the time of your torture?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: Whom I recall their name by then, it's Mr Managa, Ramaligela, Nesamari and Mr Netshivale was present but by then I was not knowing his name and others.

MS MTANGA: Can you not recall who the other people were besides the ones who've applied here today?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: The other person, I still remember whom I'm suspecting that he didn't participate, who was just talking verbally, is the old man, Mr Mazena.

MS MTANGA: At the time people were holding you down, you said four people sat on your legs and two others sat on your arms and another person at your head.  Was your head covered by this time ...(intervention)

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: By then my head was still inside the bag and somebody was still tightening the bag so that it cannot be loose.

MS MTANGA: So you could not see who were the people sitting on you?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: No, I was unable to see those people who were sitting on my legs and those people who were assisting.  But it's only that when the bag was taken off my head, it was then that I managed to identify Ramaligela, Managa and Nesamari and the old man, Matsena.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I impose, Ms Mtanga?  How soon after the electric shocks had been administered on your private parts was the bag taken - was this bag which had been pulled down your face, taken off your face?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: I can't remember that it was how soon but, they just decided to stop it because they were tired and they take the bag off.  But there is a day in which it lasted the whole day from the morning, approximately from seven or eight until in the evening.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes.  I don't think you actually get the ambit of what I'm trying to obtain from you.  What I want to know is at the time when electric shocks were being administered on your private parts, you were unable to identify who was doing what because this bag had been pulled down over your face.

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: Yes, it's true.  I was unable to identify who was doing that.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And immediately after these electric shocks had been administered on your private parts, the bag must have been pulled over, is it not so?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: It was not removed immediately.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How long did you stay with your face inside the bag after the electric shocks had been administered on your private parts?  Can you give us an estimation in terms of a few minutes, two minutes, a few seconds or a few hours?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: It couldn't have lasted for an hour.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And during that time after the electric shocks, after they had stopped electrocuting you, on your private parts, what were they doing whilst your head was inside that bag?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: They were sitting, others were standing, they were resting.  I think they were thinking of a new method that they can use.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So you were not tortured, save for the fact your face was still inside this bag?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: While I was tortured, my head or my face was inside the bag.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, after they stopped administering the electric shocks on your private parts, you say they didn't do anything for approximately an hour or they didn't remove the bag for approximately an hour?

BRIAN PHINEAS PHOSIWA: Yes, it's true.  After that it was removed and then Ramushwana opened the door, he came and then I was taken to Mr Ramushwana, I was shown papers with bombs and guns and I was asked which bomb was used to bomb the police station.