Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-12

COMMISSIONER: restrictions at that time and I was not allowed to go anywhere, not even to my father-in-law.  I was not able to visit my father-in-law because they kept on coming to check as to whether I was still at 717.  That is where I was staying.  Even when a relative died I had to apply, to make an application and report that there was a death in the family, and I would be permitted to go to that place for the burial.  When I put an application for my father-in-law they never gave me the reply, and I went there without getting the reply.  When I was put under house arrest and given certain restrictions I reported twice a week to the police station.  I had to report between nine and 10 in the morning.  I had to go on a Saturday as well as on a Wednesday, and I was not permitted to go beyond the borders of Dundee, not even at Umzimkulu, not even to my mother, who was staying at Nqutu.  I was very traumatised by this situation, because even if it was the Government that perpetrated this, but what do my children say about me as a parent?  The first thing I was handcuffed, and my eldest son, his last words when I was put into the van, he said may the Lord guide me.  I always remember those words whenever I think of the time that I went through.  The torture, the trauma, the harassment did not only affect me, but it affected my children as well.  My last-born is not attached to me, he is very attached to his father, because I left him at quite an early age, and he believes that I did not like him that's why I left him.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... for you to remember all these things.  Not only to remember them, but also to still be living with some of the effects of that.  Is there anything else that you want to say, Mrs Mhlungu?  When you came out of detention in October 1988 did you find that your services had been terminated at Lewis Stores?

WITNESS:  Yes, I had been dismissed, and they did not want to accept me back.  And I am still angry at Lewis Furnishers, because each time van Huyssteen wanted to come and detain me my manager was always the one who knew first that they were going to come and detain me, and he used to say the SBs were my friends.  And I realise that he was also involved and active in getting me detained because I was a member of SAAWU, and I was also active in the civic associations.  But that did not give him the right to collude with the SBs to such an extent that he knew before I even knew that I was going to be detained.  So I still have a grudge and I am still very angry at him.  And at the time that I was under house arrest I was not allowed to go anywhere.  I did not have a chance to go back to Lewis.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... that manager from Lewis?

WITNESS:   I don't remember his name, but he was Bischoff or Boschoff.  It was Boschoff I think.  I worked at Lewis, but I never bought anything.  I worked for quite a long time for Lewis but I never got my blue card.  And I had seven children.  I have never even taken maternity leave.  I would just be off sick.  I never got my money.  Maybe they can say I still owed the deep-freezer, but as a staff member I had a balance of R900,00 or R1 000,00.  I had paid the better part of the amount.  Even my salary was left behind.  I could not get anything.  I did not get any of the money that was due to me.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... ask my colleagues if there's anything that they want to ask you.  You've given us a very full story.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Mhlungu, we want to thank you very, very much for coming here and telling us that story.  We can see that it's been painful for you to go through some of those things again, and also to have to tell us about what some of the effects of you being detained for two years and four months.  You've said that you feel that you don't have a proper bond with your youngest child, and that's very sad, and we hope that over the years you will - you and he will manage to grow closer.
When I think back on the scene that you described to us on the day that you were arrested, or on the night that you were arrested, it really is - it's laughable in one way, and pathetic.  Seven police cars full of armed policemen coming to arrest one woman and her one-and-a-half-year-old child.  It really makes us want to laugh.  But the sad part is that you were taken away from your family for two years and four months, and it had long-lasting consequences for you and your family, as you have told us, and your husband.  You lost your job as well, and you said that you lost an item of great sentimental attachment to you, your wedding ring.
Now, the Commission, as I have said to the other witnesses, we will make recommendations to the Government as to how we think people like you should be assisted.  I don't think that we will have the power to find your wedding ring.  We will make inquiries, but this is a long time ago, as you know.  It's 10 years ago.  We can also make inquiries at Lewis Stores, but we can't guarantee anything.  But it's very important that you've come here and told us the story about your arrest and detention.  In 1986 the police would have us believe that they were arresting and detaining dangerous people.  The last three people that we've heard from, you, Mr Zwane, Mr Hadebe, don't sound to me to be dangerous people at all, and it's very important that you and the others have told your stories here today so that we get a full and a better understanding of what was going on in those days.
So we want to thank you again for coming here, you and your niece, and her little child.  We're glad that they could be here to support you, and we wish you well as you leave us now.  Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Mr Hadebe, and welcome.  Can you hear me and understand me?  You are also from Sibongile township in Dundee, and you have come to tell us about similar facts to what we've just heard about from Mr Zwane.  You were also arrested, detained and tortured in June 1986, shortly after Mr Zwane was arrested.  Can you stand to take the oath before you tell us that story.

JOHANNES HADEBE: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Mr Dlamini will assist you now in giving your evidence.

MR DLAMINI: Welcome, Mr Hadebe.  Must I call you Sikulu or Mr Hadebe?  Oh, okay, I'll call you Sikulu.  As Mr Chairman has just said that you are here to tell us your story about how you were detained and tortured.  I would like us to start - the problem that we have here is that sometimes we forget to tell about families.  Would you please tell us more about your family.  Are you married?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

MR DLAMINI: Is your wife here?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is here.

MR DLAMINI: How come you didn't ask her to come with you here?

WITNESS:   I also wish that she was here next to me.

MR DLAMINI: I'll ask Mr Chairman to allow us so that your wife comes.  (Pause)  In the name of this Commission, Mr Lyster, Mrs Hadebe, you are welcome.  How many kids do you have?

WITNESS:   Five.  I can't tell their ages.

MR DLAMINI: It's a usual thing.  Men don't usually know their children's age.

WITNESS:   The first-born was born in 1971.

MR DLAMINI: Is he at school?

WITNESS:   No, he is at home.  The second-born was born in 1974.

MR DLAMINI: Is she at school?

WITNESS:   No, she's at home.  The third-born was born in 1976.  He is in standard 10.  The fourth-born was born in 1977.  He was at school.  Now he is at Technical College at Madadeni.  The last-born is in standard eight.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you very much.  We also like to thank Mrs Hadebe as well, because she is the one who took care of these children while you were in detention.  In 1986 I think you were 36 years old, because you were born in 1950.  You were arrested.  This Commission would like to hear what happened when they detained you.