Amnesty Hearings — Potchefstroom — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: I was a member of the ANC Youth League and then 1	I/...
20	MR FALTEIN
I joined the self-defence unit during the fights in the location because of the vigilante group.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: If you could provide us with the year.

UNKNOWN: I joined the organisation in 1986 and then we
changed to become the self-defence unit.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... of leadership in the SDUs?

UNKNOWN: No, I was not a leader.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: There was no leader.  We were just given  instructions.  There was just self-defence units in every section.  This was done alternatively.   We did this in shifts, so there was no specific leader.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... you were just acting as an amorphous body without any form of leadership whatsoever.

UNKNOWN: We used to report to the branch as to what happened the day before.  We used to report everything the day after.  There was nothing else that we (inaudible).  We were reporting to the Youth League and to the Civic  Association women.   It was Dr  (inaudible) but he passed away.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Question inaudible)

UNKNOWN: It was Mama Noqebe(?).  I don't remember where she is now.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What was the name of this vigilante group, if it had any?

UNKNOWN: They used to call themselves vigilantes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Question inaudible)

UNKNOWN: They were using the name for vigilantes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now you testified that this vigilante, they killed, maimed and even burned houses of residents, you remember that?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they were killing and burning down houses.
1

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: /...
21	MR FALTEIN

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Are you in a position that you can tell us the exact reason why they did this?  What was their target?

UNKNOWN: The main thing that they were against, they were helping the police in fighting people who were fighting against oppressions.  They were going along with the police and identifying comrades and burning down their houses.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Can you tell this Committee as to whether there was any form of connection between the vigilante group and  the police?  Was there such a connection?

UNKNOWN: Wherever they were they were accompanied by the police.  Whatever they did the police were present.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What things did you know personally that they did together with the police?  Just mention one.

UNKNOWN: The one thing  that I saw them in the location is  when they shot at Michael Dlameni's home.  The deceased was there and some other police, Mkonza(?) and Oosthuizen, they were there shooting people and they asked  as  to what was happening whilst they did everything.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... were in the police together with the vigilante shot at people at night vigils, was that ever reported to the authorities of the Police Force?

UNKNOWN: Yes,  the next day the police came to investigate as to what happened and how many people were injured and many people were injured and the police arrived the next day to investigate the matter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Besides this shooting at the night vigil, do you know of any incidents wherein vigilantes and the police  were involved?

UNKNOWN: The other thing that was done by the vigilante,  there was going to be a launch at a school and they arrived and they started shooting and they said to the people
2	disperse/...
22	MR FALTEIN
disperse, you cannot launch COSAS at this school.  We are not going to allow this.   It was one member from the vigilante group.  We didn't know many of them because they weren't from this township, all of them.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... the people who were shooting at this school were not vigilante people?

UNKNOWN: Yes,  they were the vigilantes, because they arrived at school.  That was on the day of launching COSAS.
They were together with other people we do know who are residing in this township.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: At the time of the shooting were the police anywhere near that school?

UNKNOWN: The police station was far from the school, but the police arrived thereafter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: During the shooting spree, could the police be seen in the neighbourhood?

UNKNOWN: No, at the time they arrived we had already dispersed.  There was nobody in the school yard.  We don't know what did they do on their arrival.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You have given the Committee only one instance wherein the vigilante and the police worked in cahoots.   Now is there any other instance which you can recall wherein the police worked in cahoots with the vigilantes?

UNKNOWN: Yes, everywhere you would see them they would be in the company of the police.  They had police in their company all the time.   As I have already explained, they came to shoot at a night vigil and they came to shoot at the school on the launching of COSAS and when they were moving  around in the townships you'd see them in  the company of the police.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were vigilantes ever arrested during that
2	period/...
23	MR FALTEIN
period?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they were arrested.  They'd be taken to the police station at the township and in the evening they would be released to be free men.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... presently in gaol now?

UNKNOWN: Not even one of them is in gaol now.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was there any enmity, any bad blood between yourself and the vigilantes?

UNKNOWN: Yes, because they  kept on attacking us all the time accompanied by the police.  They were  looking for activists, people who are involved in the struggle.  When I was sentenced in (indistinct) I was shown a photo that I am one of those who was supposed to be killed in the location.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ... joined the SDU and the Youth League, surely there were other people who were already involved in SDUs and Youth League, not so?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there were some other people that I don't remember that were members.  But most of the people are no longer in the location now and most of them I don't remember them.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Question inaudible)

UNKNOWN: Yes, they were there at that time.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Question inaudible)

UNKNOWN: The SDU was formed when the vigilante started killing people in the location.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: The group that was there before you?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there is quite a lot of people who were killed by the vigilante.   There were too many comrades that were killed by the vigilante group.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you ever see the vigilantes in a meeting  with the police or travelling in police vehicles?
2

UNKNOWN: /...
24	MR FALTEIN

UNKNOWN: I never saw them in a  meeting, but I knew that they used to travel together in their vans and they were always around with policemen.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Question inaudible - microphone not switched on)

UNKNOWN: Some of them I saw.  When I was shot I found  them in the police station sitting around there and they beat me up there with the police.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Faltein, as one of the Committee  members correctly said, we don't know really what  happened on that day.  I am going to request you to tell us when did you people decide to approach David Mayeko, what had happened  and what actually happened step by step until he lost his life.  Just tell us everything that happened.

UNKNOWN: When David Mayeko died, he was somebody that we knew very well.   His grandmother was in our neighbourhood, we knew him very well, and even when he joined this thing he used to accompany the police to come and look for me in order to kill me.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Just a minute, can I just try to clarify something.  Which question are you answering?

UNKNOWN: I am answering the question that how well did  I know David Mayeko.