Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietersburg — 1996-07-17

MS SEROKE: I want us to just concentrate on those points which are reflected on your statement.  You said they took your husband on the  ninth and then on the eleventh one policeman came, Colonel Mulotta, and he told you that your husband has died.  In other words, he left only for a day and he stayed two days in the police station and you did not receive a death certificate,and the post mortem wasn't done, and there was one person who knew how your husband died.  Who is this person who knew that your husband died at his hands?

MRS NCHABELENG: It's one man by the name of Tobejan, he's a reverend in the Roman Catholic Church.

MS SEROKE: If he's a reverend, what was he doing in the police station.

MRS NCHABELENG: They had arrested him because he had ANC papers.

MS SEROKE: In other words the reverend had also been arrested.

MRS NCHABELENG: Yes.  In other words it means that my husband was an enemy of the police.

MS SEROKE: In the statement they said he was the one who was on Robben Island.  If you can tell us, why did they take him that night, was he arrested because he had been on Robben Island?

MRS NCHABELENG: He was arrested because he was from Robben Island, that's what I think, I don't know.  And when they came and told us that this old man has died, I asked them how did he die, because if he was in hospital then I would understand, because he lived here healthy, and I said to them it would have been better if you just injured him, not killed him.

MS SEROKE: You Mrs Gertrude, were you active in political activities?

MRS NCHABELENG: No I wasn't, I was just a womens' member when I was in Pretoria, here at home I wasn't doing anything, I was just working.

MS SEROKE: How many kids do you have?

MRS NCHABELENG: I have eight kids.

MS SEROKE: In your statement you said your first born is Lizzie and she was working in Johannesburg at the time when her father was killed.  Was she involved in political activities?

MRS NCHABELENG: No she wasn't.

MS SEROKE: And your second born is Alec, and he was also arrested and sent to Robben Island?  Why was he arrested?

MRS NCHABELENG: He was arrested because Totious Sexquale came with Martin Ramogade and Naledi Tsiki and Bafana and Martin Ramogade saw that these kids won't be able to stay here, and then he took his kids and brought them to my house, and they were staying with me. They could assist us with many things because I stayed with their kids. They were arrested together with Totious Sexquale.

MS SEROKE: Your third born?

MRS NCHABELENG: His name was Lethule and he left for exile.  He was chased out of school because at school one day there was a strike, and the then the principal said Lethule was being taught by his father that they must strike at school.  Luthule's real name was Lucas, and we just gave him this nick name as Luthule because he was born on the day when Chief Lethule was given the Nobel Peace Prize, and they thought he was involved in those strikes and they chased him from the school.  And then he stayed at home because he couldn't go to school, he wanted to go and look for a job because he couldn't go back to the school.

MS SEROKE: And your fourth born,  his name was Petros, He was the member of the Skukune Youth Congress?

MRS NCHABELENG: Yes I agree.

MS SEROKE: And the Maurice?    He was also a member of the Skukene Youth Congress and his testimony we will hear after we've finished after you.
 And Milistasie, Lilian and Hezekiel were still young at the time, and were they involved in political activities?

MRS NCHABELENG: Yes.

MS SEROKE: When we look at the involvement of your family, your family was involved in political activities.  Do you see this as the reason why Peter the father, was killed?

MRS NCHABELENG: Yes, it is like that because their father can't work and now the kids see why they suffer, it's because of politics.

MS SEROKE: I will give a chance to other Commissioners if they have questions.

MRS NCHABELENG: If I talk about this old man, Maurice, where he was attending school...(intervention)

MS SEROKE: Maurice's story we will talk about when we talk to Maurice.

MRS NCHABELENG: Okay.

MS SEROKE: The Commissioners said we can continue with Maurice's testimony.  Maurice, your statement is too long, we would like you to tell us just about what your mother hasn't told us.  We would like you to tell us about your school results.

MR NCHABELENG: In 1983 I was a student at Maditame high school.  After the strike that my mother has just mentioned,  when I was expecting to receive my results, I didn't receive them.  And then when the school was about to reopen I went to the principal and the principal, when he was addressing the assembly, he said those who didn't receive their results didn't receive them because they owed on books and they owed money for school fees.  I then went to him and told him that i didn't owe on any books or any school fees. I went into his office and he said to me that I also didn't receive my results but I didn't owe anything. He then told me to phone the post office and ask if my results aren't there.
 I called and they agreed that my results were there. I asked them why they said they weren't there when I asked them about my results the previous evening.   The principal said that I must not talk to them like that but must just go and fetch them.  
 When I arrived at the post office I came back quick because one of my friends lent me his motorbike and I was not expected to be there at the time.  Two women were talking and when I went inside they kept quiet.  When I asked for my results, they just took them from the box and gave them to me. I asked them why they did not give them when I asked for them previously, and one of them answered that they had arrived late, but the other one said that it was under the boxes so they couldn't see them.  I went home and usually on the results envelope was written the parent's name on the top.  I took my results to my father because it was addressed to him.  He said no it looks as if there is something like a wire inside the envelope.  He said he knows how to open it without it hurting people, but he said that I should take it to my principal and let him open it.
 When I went to the principal to give him this envelope I could tell in his face he was scared. I put the envelope next to him and then i stood and looked at him.  He moved back a little bit.  You could tell he was scared.  He asked me what I want, and I said there is something in here. He had an axe which he fetched and wanted to smash me with it. I opened the distance between us and he took a javelin and wanted to assault me with it.  
 He ordered me out of his office, and I met Mr Thurter who was the vice principal.  He called him and we went together to the principal.  He told him that I had just put medicine or muti inside the envelope.

MS SEROKE: Did the principal take the envelope.