Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-30

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: In Krugersdorp I stayed for six months. I can't remember very well how long I stayed in Krugersdorp, but after that they took me to Pretoria Maximum Prison.  Could I explain properly?
 When I was in Krugersdorp they came to fetch me and took me to John Vorster Square.  They said they wanted guns.  When I arrived at John Vorster I found that they had arrested my mother.  They showed me that if you don't show us where these guns are we are going to kill your mother.  We are also going to kill you.  They took me to 10th floor.  They said you see this window, we will make you stand on top of the table and you will fly out like a bird, so many people died like you, they died there on the ground.  They died flying through this window like a bird, you are also going to die if you don't tell us the truth.  
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 G P MOHALE
 For the first time when I saw those policemen they looked wild, they looked like cannibals.  Their eyes were laminating, that's how their eyes looked.  They are huge policemen, very heft policemen.  They threatened me.  They intimidated and said they are going to kill me, you are not going to come out of this place alive.  My heart was beating.  I thought about my mother and I thought all my mother had done for me and I thought they were going to kill her.  So they put me in a cell and slept.  I was surprised my mother was very strong, she said don't be scared, but for what they did to me, I was thinking about her all the time.  I couldn't sleep that night.

MS SEROKE: These policemen were they White policemen or Black policemen and how many were they?  How many were they who did these things to you?

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: The John Vorster or Krugersdorp?

MS SEROKE: The ones you said they have got laminating eyes.

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: These were John Vorster cops.  There were lots of them, I don't even know how many there were. There were lots of them.  Every one of them was intimidating me, harassing me.  There were a few Black policemen.  Most of them were White policemen.

MS SEROKE: In your statement you said they handcuffed you, they put you in the van where there was a police dog, they put you with this dog in this van.

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: When I went home it was a private car which is divided inside and on the other side there was a dog on the other side was me.  So they handcuffed me, took me home to search home looking for guns.  They put everything upside down at home searching, and they told me they were searching JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 G P MOHALE
for guns and I didn't show them any guns.  There were lots and lots of cars, convoy of cars with me.  When they arrived home they didn't find any guns.  They were harassing everybody at home.  From there they took me back to Krugersdorp.  The following day they took me to Pretoria Maximum Prison.  That's where I stayed alone.  They put me together with convicted prisoners, people who were going to be hanged, the women.  I used to exercise with them.  Even there they didn't allow my mum to come and see me.  When they gave me their case it was the Pretoria 12, there were 11 men and me, I was the only women.  So they came to fetch me from prison with a van with a dog.  The first day I appeared in court there was a dog in this van.  They didn't even tell me where we were going.  When we came back it was the only time that we could have access to lawyers and then they began to take statements from us, and they told us that they are going to wait for us.  That was the only time my mum could see me and I could only change clothes.  
 One day when they came to fetch me the dog soiled inside the van and I refused to get inside this van when there was dog excreta and I became strong, and they said I was wasting time when I refused to get inside the van with dog excreta. They called another prisoner who had been convicted to come and wash the van.  They washed this van with hosepipe water but it was still smelling and I said I would not get inside, you can do anything.  So they took me by their car.  So I went with them in this private car and I was sitting with them together and because they ...(tape ends)...  
 There were even some mice inside in my cell.  I was surprised how a rat got inside my cell.  Sometimes they put 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 G P MOHALE
something in my paper bag which I used to have.  During the night I heard a lot of noise in this paper bag in the corner.  There was a bucket that I used to relieve myself in a bucket.  It used to be changed once a day, in the morning.  During the day they didn't change this bucket.  When I needed to toilet and relieve myself this is the bucket I used.  I was sleeping on the mat on the floor and it was very cold.  So when this thing was moving around in my paper bag making a noise I just prayed to God.  I just said if God you can give me strength to come and kill this thing inside this paper bag.  Something like a cockroach, it was a huge thing from this paper bag.  It looked like a cockroach.  It looked an insect, some animal, a creepy-crawly from the bush but I told them I am not going to tell them what was inside there because I think it was put there by them.  I just folded this thing with a newspaper and threw it inside the bucket. Usually only one person came and they took me out to shower.  On that day three of them came and they took this thing out and I just took the bucket and threw it into the toilet.  Sometimes they would just come in and mix a lot of things in my cell.  They just used to use lots of tricks to intimidate me and harass me.  
 Judge Davison, when Mr Chitaka(?) asked that I should be released because I have been in prison for a long time, the Judge refused.  Our case was postponed to January.  We were assisted by Mr Myburgh and two assessors.  Most of the witnesses had already left and then we were released.  On the day of my release Mr Coetzee came to me and said, Pauline where are you going to, what are you going to do?  I said I am going home, why worry.  And I left for home.  Even thereafter they came.  Some of them would come to my 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 G P MOHALE
home with guns, with many cars, interrogating me and I told them I am just staying at home, I am not well.  I went to the neurologists at Baragwanath because at that time I had a nervous breakdown.  It was about four years that I was in this treatment.  My back was aching.  Even now my legs are - I have clots, my veins have clotted.  I keep on wearing pantihose every day.  Lisa Williams, a White lady came to me and she said Pauline if you want to get out of this country tell me and I will help you.  At times she would invite me, she wanted to be my friend.  I didn't know who she was.  She came to Dube being a White person and she said to me if you want to leave the country you must tell me, and I said to her no I don't want to leave, I am not healthy, I have a child and my mother is struggling, why do you want me to leave?  She said no, I am just thinking the police might harass you.  Lisa persuaded me to leave the country and I refused.  I had a radio cassette and a tape deck.  She took them with her, she said lend them to me - she gave me a report saying they are lost.  I went to Mr Chitaka to report this and he wrote her a letter.  She bought me new equipment but she kept on persuading me to leave.  I can't remember in what year it was and I heard that Lisa was involved in an accident and she died.  She was a very good informer to the police.  I got a clue that she wanted to kill me.  I can't remember the name of the newspaper.  They indicated that Lisa Williams was a police informer.

MS SEROKE: Pauline you said that you were tortured, do you know the names of the police who tortured you, can you point them?  Who are they?