Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-22

MR DA SILVA: Mr Chairman, I don't want to go, protract the proceedings into going into a long detail, but at various stages during the night to the following morning there were different vehicles coming in.  At the stage when they were crossing the road, there were only Buffels available at that stage.  I'm talking after they had entered into the KwaMadala hostel, if the witness is aware of further military vehicles in the vicinity.

CHAIRPERSON: In the vicinity of the hostel?

MR DA SILVA: Of the hostel, yes, Mr Chairman.

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: The room which I use is in the middle of the hostel so I would not be able to see what was happening at the gate.

MR DA SILVA: I don't have any further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Yes, Ms Tanzer?

MS TANZER: Thank you, Chairman.
	You say that Mr Nosenga came chatting to you in Zone 2, in your cross-examination, how often did he do this?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: I would not be able to say he came daily or on a particular day but all the time he was inside, then he would not talk Zulu or communicate with the Zulus because he did not know Zulu.  He would come to our group because we are Sotho-speaking.

MS TANZER: When he came to chat, did he talk about the Boipatong attack, did he mention police assistance in the attack, did he mention any events of that night?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: No.

MS TANZER: Did you ever discuss between yourselves what happened that night?

CHAIRPERSON: When you say "between yourselves", does it exclude Mr Nosenga?

MS TANZER: Well not really, between the residents, "yourselves" in plural.

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: We were not discussing about this issue because it happened and then it passed.

MS TANZER: According to your testimony, Mr Nosenga only joined the hostel after the attack, were you not suspicious of him, that perhaps he was an ANC or police spy?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: We did not have suspicion.  He told me that he was sent by the ANC for the first time when he came, that he was coming to observe what was happening in the hostel.
	Then he was taken to the office and then he appeared on the newspapers as to whether what was happening, what was he doing in the hostel and what happened, that he wanted to kill Getisi.  From there he was taken back to the township.  He knew that he was going to be killed if he can go back to the township.  Then after he was made to stay in the hostel, we had to protect him because the ANC was going to kill him, so he stayed in the hostel.

MS TANZER: You said he wasn't a friend of yours though, did you ever visit him in his room?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: Yes, I had friends who were staying in that room, not him.

MS TANZER: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	After the - well, did you go to the stadium after you'd heard what has been referred to as "Ixilongo".

INTERPRETER: May you please repeat your question, Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go to the stadium after you've heard what has been described here as "Ixilongo"?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: Yes, you mean before the attack?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, just before the attack, yes.

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: And who spoke to the people who had gathered there?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: It would depend what was the purpose of the meeting.  If it was called ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm referring to the night of the 17th just before you proceed to Boipatong.

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: That is Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: What did he say?

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: He said this is the time about your complaints, we should go and arm ourselves and then we're going to attack.

CHAIRPERSON: Just repeat that again, be very slow so that the interpreter can interpret that.

RUBEN MAGANGA TEBOGO MAGUBANE: He said this is the day which we were crying for, everyone must go back to his room and collect his arms, we're going to attack, we're going to attack Boipatong.
	The slogan which we would use is se'Sotho, not that we're going to sing se'Sotho.  We should take white headbands and put them on the head so that we will be able to identify one another.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson,  no questions.

ADV SIGODI: No questions, thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything arising from this?

MR BERGER: Nothing.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.
	Thank you, Mr Magubane, you may return to your seat.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: In view of the time, we are not going to deal with your next witness, Mr Strydom.  We will have to adjourn until Monday.  Did we agree on a time on Monday?

MR BERGER: I'm keeping ...(intervention)

MR STRYDOM: No, Chairperson, but I can suggest 9 o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, alright.  Shall we start at nine thirty.  Okay, very well, these proceedings then stand adjourned until Monday at nine thirty.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS