Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1996-11-20

WITNESS:   The section head of the shift was Deputy Warrant-Officer O'Connell, or Warrant-Officer O'Connell, and with me on the shift were, inter alia, Bruce Parow, Len Hawkin, Delport - his nickname was Dikdalies(?) - Ray Gosling, Andre Waring, and I can't remember the other names - except for one, Tobie Alberts.  He was a well known tracker.  I hadn't been in the unit for a week when I was sent out with these aforementioned members to Hammarsdale area.  I was with Richard O'Connell as part of the crew of the vehicle, as part of his crew.  If I remember correctly we arrived at the army base in Hammarsdale at about 10 o'clock that night.  There were Defence Force personnel present during Richard's situation analysis.  It was made clear what was expected of everybody.  If I recall correctly - I am sorry, it's eight and a half years ago - there were two Defence Force bakkies accompanying us to the homes.  After Richard's lecture I fell asleep.  We were meant to depart in the early hours of the morning, I think round about 3 o'clock.  When I was woken up for us to leave Richard told me that I should just stick close to him, that I should just stay behind him and walk behind him, and that I should not shoot before he starts shooting.  I was afraid.  I will not deny that.  I was fresh out of Police College and now I was confronted with the possibility of having to shoot somebody.  Richard told me that we were entering a big UDF/ANC area, and he pointed out the place where Dikdalies had been fired at by the ANC a week before, and had nearly sustained an injury from a shrapnel from a grenade.  We were in fact on our way to the attacker's home.  My first impressions of the unit and its members were that the ANC/UDF wanted us dead, they wanted to kill us.  I was now part of this unit and I would have shot if it was necessary.  If I didn't fire and we were killed what would have happened then?  We then stopped at some spot in the road.  Richard told some of the special constables that they were vehicle guards.  He told them this at the lecture at the defence base, and we therefore just got out and walked down into the valley.  I suspect that the people whom we were looking for also had guards placed in strategic positions, because I can recall that I heard whistling after a while.  The whistling started from about 200 metres away from us and then echoed up into the valley.  Richard O'Connell shouted that we knew they were there, and we then started running.  It was strange for  me to be running like that, because I had to clutch my 9mm by my side at the same time to prevent it from falling out.  I had to hold onto my rifle, my shotgun belt around my waist, as well as the shotgun in my left hand.  On top of all this I had to prevent my ... (Interpreter:  The interpreter could not hear that word)  I to some degree succeeded, but what was difficult was to follow in Richard's footsteps.  Suddenly we heard automatic gunfire coming from in front of us.  Richard shouted that we should open fire, and we did.  We then continued running and then shot again.  One of the members then shouted that he had caught somebody.  Our unit didn't carry cuffs, handcuffs.  It was not part of our equipment.  Richard had a shoelace which he used to handcuff the person.  He tied his hands behind his back, grabbed hold of his hands behind his back and tied his two thumbs together.  It was the first time that I had seen somebody being tubed with the inner tube of a car, the square piece of inner tube.  The late Tobie Alberts then tubed this man in order to extract information from him.  We wanted him to tell us where the others had run to and where they were obtaining their firearms from.  After about 20 minutes of tubing and an exchange of words in Zulu they told him to get up.  We then moved in a certain direction, and after about half an hour of walking we arrived at a rondavel.  After searching we found the rondavel empty.  Richard said that we should return to the vehicles.  We had arrived with about four vehicles and 15 men.  We then started walking back.  After a while we saw a group of about 20 people ahead of us, 20 heads in the darkness ahead of us.  It was starting to get light, but it was still quite dark.  The group of black men ahead of us were just a couple of metres away from us.  We saw that they were on their knees, they were in a kneeling position.  The late Tobie Alberts told us to also go down on our knees.  After we knelt down Tobie started making certain noises with his tongue.  If I may demonstrate it sounded like this.  (Interpreter:  The speaker is making a clicking sound with his tongue.)  And then he would keep quiet and then repeat those clicking noises or sounds.  The same kind of sound came from the group of people in front of us.  Tobie then got up and once again made these tongue-clicking sounds.  One man in this group got up, made tongue-clicking noises, and the rest of the group also got up.  Tobie motioned with his hand that we should also get up.  He once again made these clicking sounds and indicated that we should move forwards.  The other group also approached.  We were probably five metres away from then when somebody from their group shouted,"Oh, amaphoyisa," and then they started running in all directions.  Richard shouted, "Shoot them, shoot them."  Somebody fired a flare and shouted that I should also fire my two flares, which I did.  I then picked up my shotgun and, as the others were doing, fired at the people running away.  It was as if I was seeing a movie unfolding before my eyes.  A couple of light flares which were still hanging suspended in the air whilst we were shooting.  That is the scene imprinted in my memory.  I saw some of the people falling, and they were dragged along by their comrades, or picked up by the others.  We followed them, we ran after them, but Richard called us back and said that the flares were becoming extinguished and it would be dangerous to continue moving in all directions.  When somebody inquired about the one ANC man in detention it was noticed that he had just disappeared.  I think it was some or other special constable who had been guarding him.  I can't remember his name or his face.  I mentioned that there were about between 12 and 15 of us.  I can't remember exactly who were there except for myself, Tobie Alberts and Richard O'Connell.  There were special constables with us, as well as Dikdalies.  The two Defence Force bakkies had instructions to circle a certain area of Hammarsdale.  I don't know how many people there were in these bakkies or who they were.  In any event at some stage we met them and they helped us to search for this group who had shot at us.  We couldn't find anybody, and as soon as day broke we went back to the army base.  Richard departed to Pietermaritzburg before the rest of us.  He spoke to the Defence Force people to one side.  I don't know what they spoke about, and I didn't think anything of it.  I wasn't particularly interested or concerned.  I also didn't inquire what it was about.  The things which had happened in these approximately two hours were still in my mind, and that is perhaps why I can still remember these things, because this was my first operation with members of the unit.

INTERPRETER: Sorry to interrupt you.  We've just been informed that there's a very, very large crowd outside who want to hear the evidence today, and the police have asked us to  the police outside have asked us to adjourn your evidence so that we can try and rig up some speakers outside.  If you can just stay there on the stage we'll just ... (incomplete)

INTERPRETER: MACHINE SWITCHED OFF