Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-10-28

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you.  Let's get to the Heidelberg - should I proceed Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, is there very much more that you have to ask in your evidence in chief?

NORMAN ARENDSE: There's quite a few questions and some of them are quite important.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I've received a note from some others on the staff.  We will take an adjournment at this stage and resume at 9H30 punctually tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION - 29 OCTOBER 1997

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: While we're about it Mr Prior, will you be kind enough to prepare a key to this sketch plan?

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, a key has been prepared, I apologise that I have not distributed it and could two copies be made or a copy be made to the ...[inaudible]
	Mr Chairman, may I just say that or add that the key - the plan was extracted from the police investigation docket and the key as well, so the key and the plan come from the police investigation - the original investigation.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  For the purposes of the present record, this key will be B1 because the sketch plan we've numbered as Exhibit B.

MR PRIOR: As the Commission pleases.

JUDGE WILSON: Now the key that you've given us refers to photographs 1 to 43.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman sorry, could I just have a moment to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman I apologise, it would seem that the key that was extracted - and I didn't check it, was the key to the photographs that were - if you would allow - if I could then just retrieve what we've been handed out and the proper key be retrieved.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PRIOR: I do apologise.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well we'll keep this and we'll return the key to you.

JUDGE WILSON: The key does in fact cover the photographs that we were given.  If you look at the key it has got A and then sketch plan and photos 1 to 2 and 22 b, c, d, all the way down to n which is what appears on the photo isn't it?

MR PRIOR: I must now conceded that that is so, it just shows you - I didn't study it before it was handed up Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: What the key appears to indicate in the plan that was handed in is where cartridges were found outside and where bodies were found and cartridges were found inside.

MR PRIOR: That is so Mr Chairman, it doesn't seem to indicate distances of - and we've been at pains to get that, we haven't been able to locate the key relating to distances - if any were taken.

CHAIRPERSON: There probably wasn't one.

MR PRIOR: No, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, we'll do with it, thank you.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV SANDI: Mr Mabala, we are just reminding you that you are still under oath, you will continue with your evidence led by Mr Arendse, your attorney.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  Can I just start off by apologising for my colleague Miss Goza not being here on time, there's some unavoidable domestic matter which has detained her, she'll be here though, thank you.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Mabala, you remember yesterday I read back to you a prepared statement and you confirmed the contents of that statement?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: I just want to ask you a few questions leading on from that written statement, I started that yesterday afternoon and then we adjourned until this morning.  Now, in your written statement you have indicated that Gqomfa's affidavit had been read to you and you confirm the contents of his affidavit and you've also heard his evidence, is that correct?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: (cont)
	Now, Gqomfa had said both in his written statement and in his evidence before the Committee, that he had disclosed to members of the unit - and it's common cause that you were a member of that unit, for the first time on the 30th of December - that is the same day that the Heidelberg attack took place, he disclosed to you and other members of the unit for the first time that you were going to attack the tavern, is that correct?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: He also said in his statement that you and Sibeko earlier that evening stayed behind while he, Madasi, Jantjie and Maxeba had gone out to look for a car for the operation, is that right?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: They then returned a little later that evening with this - as we now know, bottle green Opel Record, do you remember that?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, I remember Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: It has changed colour since yesterday, I thought it was a blue Opel Record?

NORMAN ARENDSE: It's a blue Opel Record, thank you Mr Chairman - I must be colour blind today.
	Sorry, just for the record Mr Mabala, I meant a blue Opel Record not a bottle green Opel Record.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, we also heard from Gqomfa that you and Sibeko, you were waiting and that the arms and ammunition were kept in a suitcase, is that right?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That's correct Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And that in this suitcase were four R4 rifles, two AK47 rifles, one rifle grenade, two M26 hand grenades and two magazines for each of these weapons?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And then Gqomfa goes on to say that for the first time now he was briefing you - that is now they've returned with the blue Opel Record and now he's briefing you for the first time about what you're going to do at the Heidelberg Tavern.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: According to Gqomfa, he was going to spring the attack by shooting first with his AK47, Jantjie would follow him with his R4 rifle, Sibeko would follow Jantjie with an R4 rifle, you would throw a hand grenade before Madasi shoots his rifle grenade as a withdrawal signal and that Maxeba would be the driver.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now my question is then, those instructions which Gqomfa gave to you and to the others - firstly in your case, did you do what you were told to do at the Heidelberg tavern?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, I did what I was told to do.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Just be clear here, you were told to throw a hand grenade.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I was told to launch a hand grenade however I did not do that because I saw Madasi entering the tavern, I then thought I could not throw the  - launch the hand grenade whilst Madasi was inside.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So in other words, you did not do as you were instructed to do by Gqomfa who was the commander of the unit?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes Sir, that is so.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Because that's also what you said in your written statement and under oath, that you  were supposed to throw the grenade but you did not do so.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, I don't know - you've still got those photographs there in front of you or in the packet there?  Can you just take them out Mr Mabala?
	Mr Chairman, here I just want to refer to the photographs which are before you and which is Exhibit A.
	You look at the first set of photographs on the first page, the ...[intervention}

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I can see them.

NORMAN ARENDSE: The car was driven by Maxeba, is that right?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Correct Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Where did he stop the car - if you can just indicate on the photograph there, the first one which is Exhibit 1a.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: As there were two doors, the car was parked in front on number 1 in the picture - won't you ask the question again?  Repeat the question please?

NORMAN ARENDSE: The car that Maxeba was driving and in which you were a passenger, where did he pull up or where did he park the car?  Can you indicate on the first photograph where he parked the car?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: In front of the Heidelberg Tavern - on the first photograph.