Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1999-05-24

CHAIRPERSON: I want to start the proceedings. For the record this is a hearing of the Amnesty Committee sitting in Bloemfontein, the panel residing consists of myself, Denzil Potgieter chairing, together with Adv Gcabashe and Mr Malan. 	We are hearing the application this morning of Mr Justice Bekebeke, Reference No AM6370/97. Mr Bekebeke, I am advised that you will be handling the matter on your own. Is that correct? You must just press the red button, that will switch it on.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, yes, Mr Chairman, I will also be representing two of the victims. Both are family members of the Sitwala family, Mr Chairman. It will be Mrs Beatrice Sitwala and her daughter, Miss Magdalene Sitwala. Both of them are
present here today. Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Steenkamp. Yes, Mr Bekebeke, is there anything you want to put on record before he listen to the application?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Well, the only thing that I would like to place on record is that I am representing myself and that I will be handling the proceedings on my own today and that I am coming to make, submit my application today in conjunction with the National, Promotion of Nationality and Reconciliation Act.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Now, I assume that you will be giving evidence, so I will have to get you to take the oath.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, is there anything you want to tell us in particular about the application?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Well, the application is springing from happenings in 1985, more specifically the 13th of November 1985, when the deceased in this matter was killed, of which I was part of that crowd which killed him. The background of it all is that it started on the Sunday of the 10th of November 1985 ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry, Mr Bekebeke, can I just ask you to go a little slower. They are interpreting to the interested parties as you speak, so they're trying to keep up with you.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Oh.

CHAIRPERSON: And we are also taking notes, so we're also trying to keep up with you.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: All right, sure.

CHAIRPERSON: So just be a bit patient, and go a bit slower. All right?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Will do.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you just tell us. You say you were giving us the background and you say this incident happened on the 13th November 1985.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Specifically for the one which I'm applying, yes, for the 13th of November 1985.

CHAIRPERSON: And who was the deceased?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: The deceased was Lucas Sitwala.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and you wanted to sketch the rest of the background for us.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: The background is that on Sunday the 10th of November 1985, a meeting was called by the community to discuss amongst others, social grievances, social and political grievances which members of the community of Paballelo had. And just for the record, I was not at that meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: Paballelo is ...

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: The black township just outside Upington.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Subsequent to the meeting, unrest erupted, where policemen who were in Paballelo started shooting teargas. The youth in the community retaliated by stoning the police. Through that night, several houses and cars of people who were seen by the community to be collaborating with the State then, were burnt or stoned. Subsequent to that, that very same evening, a pregnant woman was shot and killed by the police, allegedly because she was stoning a police which was definitely untrue.

ADV GCABASHE: Where was this?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: This was in Paballelo on the 10th of November 1985. The unrest continued from the 10th until the 12th where police stoned, actually the police shot at the residents of Paballelo and we retaliated by stoning them.
	On the 12th of November 1985, a certain Captain van Dyk, originally from Kimberley, arrived with his troops in Paballelo. He tried to find a resolution and we held a meeting with him in King Street that evening of the 12th. But, we the youth, felt that this is not just what we are struggling for, we require that the whole community of Paballelo to be there when we are having a meeting with Van Dyk. We therefore agreed that the meeting was going to be held on the 13th, on the morning of 13th of November 1985 at the soccer field, which was going to be the only open area where thousands of people could gather.

ADV GCABASHE: Did Van Dyk agree to the meeting as well?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Van Dyk was the one who proposed the meeting.

ADV GCABASHE: And you are here talking about the meeting of the 13th?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: The meeting of the 13th November. The next morning we saw to it that we informed all the people in the townships. We went through the streets to inform them that we will be having a meeting together with the police and indeed people turned out in their thousands at the soccer field. The meeting was opened with a prayer. First we sang Nkosi Sikeleli which then was seen as a communist anthem or an ANC anthem. After the anthem it was opened with a prayer. 	Whilst we were praying another captain, I think it was Captain Botha, stationed at Upington, gave us 10 minutes to disperse of which we definitely refused because we were called upon by Captain, the captain from Kimberley, Van Dyk, and we wanted to find a resolution to the problems in Paballelo. Hardly two minutes after he has given us warning, they started shooting teargas and rubber bullets at us, after which we dispersed.
	However, having been called by a member of the SAP then, and being shot at by them, incensed us and we picked up stones. We stoned them. In trying to run away from the police who were towards the entrance of the township, the only other alternative route which we could take was Pilane Street. As a group of us were trying to run into Pilane Street, about to approach the deceased's house, he shot and injured a little boy in front of us as we were approaching and going to pass.
	Commissioner, I would just like to ask the deceased's mother not to use derogatory language whilst I am giving my evidence. She has been cursing here and I don't think this is really in line with what we are about here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, can I call upon the members of the public and the interested parties to give Mr Bekebeke an opportunity to put his case to us? We will an opportunity to anybody with an interest in the matter who wishes to put evidence or material before us, an adequate opportunity to do so. But can I please ask you to just give him an opportunity to freely tell us what happened.

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. After having shot the child, we could not turn back, the police were at the back, there was somebody at the front shooting at us. After having shot the child as we were retreating, we saw him dashing out of the house and I specifically, alone, ran after him, caught him. When I caught him, I took over his gun and I hit him twice over his head. After that, quite a number of people, over a hundred, arrived and they started assaulting him. 	After the assault, I think somebody poured petrol over him and burnt him.

MR MALAN: Who did this?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: Unfortunately, there were so many people I couldn't specifically see who was doing that.

MR MALAN: You were not participating in that action?

JUSTICE BEKEBEKE: In the burning - when the burning started I was already gone by then. I was already starting to retreat, to run away, because the police were not far away.

MR MALAN: Did you not see the burning and the pouring ...