Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-16

MR MHLABA: Certainly, Mr Chairman.
	The three applicants here, Wellington Fokazi, Thozamile Clement Ndabeni and Steven Donald Makhura have filed application forms and I submit that the application forms are in accordance with the enabling legislation.  And save to mention that the type of offences in respect of which they are applying for amnesty in certain instances are, there are more offences than the actual transaction as it's explained but that explanation has been given by the applicant who said that they associated themselves with the entire transaction here.
	With regard to a issue of political objective or political motive, there is undisputed evidence here and I will regard those issues to be of common cause, that all the applicants were active members of the ANC and they were involved in Self Defence Units of the ANC and also members of the MK respectively.
	It is further common cause that on the day in question they were in possession of several arms and ammunition and their mission was to proceed to KwaZulu Natal where they were to assist other SDUs in that area.  	The applicants were involved in this act when they were in Bethlehem on their way to KwaZulu Natal and the circumstances under which they found themselves in this situation has been well explained to the Committee.  There is evidence in the trial Court which was handed down by - thank you, Mr Chair, the evidence which was tendered by Mofokeng, and it was found that the applicants here were involved in the robbery or they conspired to rob a certain farmer.	 
	Mr Chairman, I want to deal with that aspect specifically.  It was denied by all the applicants that they were ever involved in this robbery.  They are nonetheless convicted of a conspiracy to go and rob the farmer.  I would want to pause and draw the Committee's attention to the fact that it has not been heard of before that people committed robbery with a political objective, and if these applicants here have in fact conspired to go and rob the farmer, it would have been easier for them to come and justify that and say for instance that: "Yes, it was the mission of our, it was our mission to go and rob this farmer so that we can acquire money to further the interest of the organisation."  They don't come to this Committee and say that and that would be a very piece of lie which would go undetected, but they insist, Mr Chairman, that they were not involved there.
	Further, this is confirmed that they have people who were their co-accused, who they did not even know.  And in order to protect the interest of their co-accused it could have been easy for them and the very co-accused to come and say that: "We all had a political objective, we planned this together and wanted to go and rob this farmer so that we can further the interest of the organisation".  That they did not say.  So I submit, Mr Chairman, that there is sufficient disclosure.  The issue of this robbery and the conspiracy to rob is just hot air, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman, I would further want to indicate to the Committee that the very incident occurred during the conflict of the past.  And given the background of the participation of the applicants into the SDUs and the structures of the African National Congress, I will submit that they have complied with the requirements of the Act and I submit that amnesty should be granted.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the position with the last applicant, Mokoena, do we regard his application as being withdrawn or do we just postpone it at this stage?

MR MHLABA: Mr Chairman, I would request the Committee to postpone it as I do not have formal instructions to the withdrawal of the application.  I will if given instructions, obviously advise him to withdraw the application as this is not an appropriate forum to ...

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't want to do that without having first obtained full instructions of the point?

MR MHLABA: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all, Mr Mhlaba?

MR MHLABA: That's all.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mapoma, do you have any submissions?

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I have no submissions, I leave it in the Committee's hands.
NO SUBMISSIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well thank you.  We will reserve the decision in this matter.  We'll have to deliberate and consider all that has been put before us and we'll hand down a written decision as soon as possible, in the near future very hopefully.
	Thank you very much for your attendance.  That brings an end then to this hearing.  As I say, a decision will be handed down in the near future.
	Mr Mapoma, tomorrow's matter, what time will we start that?

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I propose that we start at half past nine.

CHAIRPERSON: Half past nine, would that be convenient?

MR MHLABA: That's in order with me, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thank you very much, that then brings us to the conclusion of today's proceedings, we will be proceeding with further applications tomorrow and we will be starting at this venue at half past nine in the morning, thank you very much.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS