Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-02-13

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Visser, my problem with that is - I realise it will be of assistance with us, but if we've asked you to argue now - all of you, then you would not have had a record and you would have had to be prepared to argue so there is no reason why we must give you more time to argue.
	We could have asked you to argue now.  There's no reason why we should give you an extension of time in order to prepare argument.  You should have been prepared today so that you could have argued today.  It would have been helpful if you could refer to the record but we appreciate it, you've all made notes, I've made my notes and everyone made notes.  
	It would really assist us if you could file your arguments before the end of the month, the 28th of whatever the date may be because if you're only filing it round about March while we have other instances to hear again, it will also become very difficult for us to replace ourselves in the position and think about the evidence.  It's still fresh in our minds too and we would like to do it as soon as possible at least.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, if you will overlook the inaccuracies which may arise from faulty notes, we will ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think inaccuracies are going to be of such magnitude.  I think on essential matters we would like your co-operation because I want you to know that the Committee has - the panel as constituted now may not be sitting as it constituted for some time to come, if at all.
	We'll be scattered all over the show and Mr Booyens you shook your head very, very strongly when I suggested the 27th of February but why don't you place the burden on your attorney to do some draft for you?  I would be pleased if you can.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, we will do what we can, I promise that.

CHAIRPERSON: We're not doing it out of spite ...[intervention]

MR BOOYENS: No, I fully appreciate that.  Mr Chairman, we will do what we can.  Perhaps if I can just place one aspect on record, something that my learned friend mentioned.  If we could from our side just request, if there is unclarities in certain submission we made and so, then obviously we would just appreciate if the Committee could let us know so that we could if necessary, reply further to any uncertainty or something.

CHAIRPERSON: We certainly will not take decisions on facts where there is not clarity, we will not do that.

MR BOOYENS: No, I'm talking about the inaccuracies that Mr Visser is worried about in our submissions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand, thank you very much.
	Mr Jansen?

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, as I understand my position, we are not opposing this application so we will not be filing heads but I may then file within the same two weeks period, just a short heads of argument ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: If you wish to make any submission ...[intervention]

MR JANSEN: To the original Committee sitting on Mr Coetzee's Kondile matter, just dealing - the extent that this evidence may be admissible or to what extent it should be considered.

CHAIRPERSON: Well now, we have your heads in the previous application, do you wish to make ...[intervention]

MR JANSEN: I'll just make a short additional heads.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR JANSEN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Moosa?

MR MOOSA: Mr Chairman, may I ask one thing?  I have no problem with the 27th and I don't the transcript is needed, I don't have any problems with those.  Could we however submit our heads in say five days of the applicants doing so.  The applicants ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no Mr Moosa, no five days after they've done it, just do it irrespective of what they say. You know what their arguments are.  You've come prepared to argue this case on that basis, just make your submissions please.

MR MOOSA: Why I'm saying that Mr Chairman, Mr Visser particularly has mentioned there will be reference to certain documents he incorporated as part of the applications of each and I've been through that document and I don't know what those references would be.  I would welcome the chance to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Moosa, you must discuss that with him between now and the time that ...[intervention]

MR MOOSA: Yes, that would be the sensible thing to do.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOOSA: I'll do that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.  I'm telling you once again, it isn't because we want to put you under pressure, it's just that we are under immense pressure ourselves because of the volume of work and that is why we would like this as soon as possible.

MR MOOSA: It's probably sensibly resolved between counsel.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOOSA: I'll speak to Mr Visser.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Valus, any earth shaking statement from you?

MR ROUX: Nothing in particular.  If the Commission would require me to submit heads, I would be prepared to do so but I don't ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, you're not obliged to submit heads, I'm merely suggesting that if you wish to make any submissions, please do so before the end of this month, by the 27th which is a fortnight from today.

MR ROUX: I will do so Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: All right.  The same applies to you.

MR NYOKA: Yes, I will be ready Mr Chairman and I assure the Committee that it will not slip my mind, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Well, thank you very much, the Committee now adjourns.  It will consider it's decision in due course and make it's decision known in time.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, your registrar indicated that you would like to see us in chambers after this, is that still necessary or was ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: My registrar indicated?

MR BOOYENS: That you would like to see us in chambers.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I think ...[intervention]

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr Booyens, I want to see you, you alone.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, we adjourn.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS