Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Were both your parents Afrikaans?

WITNESS:   Both my parents were Afrikaans, that's correct.

MR JANSEN: Where did you go to school?

WITNESS:   I schooled in Rietfontein Noord, and Afrikaans suburb of Pretoria, my primary school, and Wonderboom High School in Pretoria, very near to my house.

MR JANSEN: Did your family belong to a church?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did, Mr Chairman, the Dutch Reformed Church.

MR JANSEN: How would you describe your family?  Were they - more particularly politically?   Were they conservative or progressive?

WITNESS:   Typical Afrikaner conservative National Party members, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: As a school child did you have any black friends, or did you come into contact with black people of your own age?

WITNESS:   Not at all, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Was your - were your parents in any way involved in politics?

WITNESS:   My father was a member of the Ari Becker branch of the National Party in Wonderboom South, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Were any of your parents involved in military activities?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Your Honour.  My father was a member of the Hercules Commandos in Pretoria.

MR JANSEN: Did you have any knowledge of the military activities he was involved in?

WITNESS:   Correct, Mr Chairman.  In the early 60s he was one - his commando was given the instruction to guard Swartkops Air Force Base during the unrest in the early 60s.

MR JANSEN: Were you involved in the Voortrekker Youth Movement? 	/---   I

MR JANSEN: ---   I was, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Could you just briefly tell the Honourable Committee Members what Voortrekker activities consisted of?

WITNESS:   Mr Chairman, it was a youth movement wearing para-military uniform, based on the traditions of our forebears, the Voortrekkers - going on camps, singing typical Afrikaans songs, being educated in the history of our forebears, and camping expeditions, etcetera, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: In your understanding at the time was politics and religion connected in any way?

WITNESS:   100%, Mr Chairman.  And, to be more specific, the National Party and the Dutch Reformed Church.

MR JANSEN: Did you believe in the underlying philosophy or teachings of the Day of the Covenant or the Day of the Vow, 16 December?

WITNESS:   At the time I did with my heart and soul, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: What did you understand?  What was the background to the commemoration of that day?

WITNESS:   It was the specific day that God has given the Zulus into the hands of the Voortrekkers at Blood River, and a covenant that was made that day, a promise that was made that day to God.  It will be a yearly commemoration of the specific day for the triumph over the Zulu nation which occurred on that day.

MR JANSEN: Again at the time did you understand that philosophy to be relevant to the present day politics of that time?

WITNESS:   Absolutely, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Did you believe that God in fact had given this country for the Afrikaners as its own?

WITNESS:   That was  my belief, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Can you recall the advent of the Republic in 1961, and the festivities thereof?

WITNESS:   I can clearly recall

MR JANSEN: /it, Mr Chairman,

MR JANSEN: it, Mr Chairman, and especially in the year previous to that when Dr Verwoerd walked out of the Commonwealth.  We saw it as a big step forward for the Afrikaner, and the specific day when we became called our own Republic - independence.  It was a very great day which I attended personally at Church Square, and it made a big impression on me, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: You matriculate in 1963, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Were you obliged to do military training after your schooling?

WITNESS:   No, Mr Chairman, I wasn't, because at that time it was a nine-month military training period.  On a lottery basis it worked, and I was allotted free - not to do military training.

MR JANSEN: Did you do military training?

WITNESS:   I did eventually, Mr Chairman, in 1966, when I volunteered and did my nine months' military training in the South African Navy, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Why did you volunteer?

WITNESS:   Well, I felt left out in the cold, and not being part of the nation that had to defend this country, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Do you think that was the average sympathies of a typical Afrikaner son of your age at that time?

WITNESS:   That was, Mr Chairman, I'm afraid.

MR JANSEN: At the time would you have been prepared to die for your country in the military context?

WITNESS:   Absolutely, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Would you have been prepared to kill for your country?

WITNESS:   I would, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Why do you say so?

WITNESS:   Well, it was - as I say, I was born into this environment, grew up in this

MR JANSEN: /environment,

MR JANSEN: environment, where we were made to believe - I were made to believe that we were God's own people.  We were the last southern Christian tip on the southern tip of Africa, that we were threatened with a communist revolutionary onslaught from the north, which if it was ever to succeed would plunge the southern tip of Africa into chaos, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Again would you in your opinion say that that was the typical type of attitude and understanding of an Afrikaans person of your age at the time?

WITNESS:   It was, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: After your school career you worked for the post office until 1970, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: And then you joined the South African Police on the 1st of April 1970, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: What did your initial police training consist of?

WITNESS:   In general law instruction, foot drill, physical training, musketry, rifle shooting, riot drill, first aid.  Basically it was that, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: What - at the time of joining the South African Police what did you know about the Security Police?

WITNESS:  Mr Chairman, not much, except that they were the elite corps, small family, the cream of the South African Police who was out there, who in a dubious twilight war was involved with the revolutionaries that threatened this country.

MR JANSEN: Did you have any aspirations of joining or becoming part of the Security Police?

WITNESS:   Mr Chairman, yes.  I think it is each policeman's aspirations and wish to one

MR JANSEN: /day become

MR JANSEN: day become one of this elite corps, although the hope wasn't very great because they are such a small selected family.

MR JANSEN: Could you tell the Honourable Committee just briefly where you served in the police prior to joining the - initially the border post command at Oshoek?

WITNESS:   Mr Chairman, I first completed my training in the Police College in Pretoria, then served at the police station at Gezina on several levels, from complaints, accidents in the street, charge office work, station work.  Then went to the Dog School for a training course in dog handler, as a dog handler.  I then went to - transferred with my dog to Flying Squad, after which I did counter insurgency training with my dog, and then went to the then Rhodesian bush war in 1973 to serve there for my stint of three months.  On my return I was transferred to Sibasa Police Station as second in charge to the station, where I again did all facets of station work and a boatmans course on the Kariba in Rhodesia.  I then wrote my officer's exams in 1975 and became an officer in the South African Police, after which I was transferred to the Police College as a law instructor for the police students in the Police College in Pretoria.  I was then with the students involved in the Soweto riots in 1976, June, after which I was then transferred to Volksrust as station commander towards the middle of '76.