Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

WITNESS: When we got to Rest Two it was myself, Comrades - and two otherComrades. When we got in there we were told to sit at separate places, we mustn'tmix. We sat like that and they told us not to communicate with each other. Thefollowing day there came other people. One of them was Jomo, as well as Kwesh.I don't know where the other two ended. They took me into another room. Theysaid I am going to give them full details as to why I was causing confusion in Tanzania, andwho sent me to create such confusion in the ANC. I pleaded with them. I kepton asking them. I told them that I didn't know anything about that. I told themthat I had actually made a false statement due to being threatened. Then therecame another hefty guy. His name was James. They called him Dada because hewas the head of the security there. He told me that whatever they did to mewasn't the real thing, the real thing was coming to me. He said to me I mustlook behind me. I saw knobkerries, sjamboks. They indicated that I could seethem. I also saw spears, and they told me if I didn't want to talk they wouldsort me out. They left me there and they told me that they were coming back,and when they came back I should be very prepared to make a statement. Theywent away and they left me inside the room. As I was sitting there I realisedthat these people may kill me. The person I was left with probably is the onewho was keeping guard on me. I realised that he was a bit intoxicated. I realisedthat here I can escape. When we were coming I realised that the main road wasn'tvery far from where we were, and I had seen an office of UNH, so I told myselfthat when I leave there I am going to the UNHCR office to ask for assistance.I went out, I went down the street until I got to the office of UNHCR. Theyasked me what I wanted. I told them that I wanted the High Commissioner forRefugees. They told me to sit. Thereafter they took me and put me into anotheroffice, where another woman came in, a white woman. If I am not mistaken I thinkshe introduced herself as Mrs Zulu or Mrs Phiri, one of the two, I don'tremember quite well.  Then she told me she is the High Commissioner for Refugees,then she sat down. I explained to her the hardships that I gone through fromTanzania up to Zambia, and these people were threatening to kill me. I urgedher to assist me because whatever they were alleging wasn't true, I knew nothingof it. So I urged her to speak to them because I knew nothing about the allegations.She told me about a certain brigadier that I should go to who was in Lusaka.Then I said these people were going to meet me along the way and they were goingto assault me. Then she told me she was coming. She said I should wait. I wentto the reception. I waited for quite a long time, then she called me in. Shesaid to me she was going to attend to me, I should go out side and sign andshe will say that they should call me. I stood outside the building, just nextto the door. As I was standing there, it wasn't a long time, a car just camein speeding through the gate. It went straight - it came straight to me. Atthat time they opened the doors and I realised these were the people. They pulledme and put me inside the car. They said I thought I was clever, I am going tothe United Nations and to all those places, and the people had told them thatI was there. They took me, put me inside the car. They said they were goingto teach me a lesson. They took me back to Rest Two. When we got to Rest Twothey put me in a room. They started assaulting me, and they assaulted me upto such an extent that I couldn't stand. They left me. When they left me therethere were other rooms just behind. They took me, they put me in one of therooms. Those rooms looked like cells. I stayed there locked up in there untilwe went out of Zambia and went to Angola.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... 1986, is that correct?

WITNESS: Yes, that was in1986.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... taken to a transit camp called Vienna, youtell us.

WITNESS: When we arrived in Luanda we were taken to a transit camp calledVienna.

MR LAX: Thereafter you went to a camp - or you called it a prison campcalled Kibashe.

WITNESS: It was quite after a long time that we have been to Vienna.We were picked up at one stage and we were told to get into a Land Rover. Wewere two, and some of the commanders, and we were heading for Kibashe, but wedidn't know that we were being taken to Kibashe.

MR LAX: But you got there eventually, and there they changed your codename to Ginger, is that correct?

WITNESS: Yes, that's correct.

MR LAX: Now, tell us what happened at Kibashe to you.

WITNESS: In Kibashewe were put into certain rooms, where we got other people who were also therelocked up. They told us that there we are not supposed to say who we are, wherewe came from, and we were given new names. The following day I was taken tothe administration block. I met a recording officer, who told me his name wasEdison. Edison started speaking to me and told me that I had come to Camp 32,and I was going to tell him my complete story, and if I don't co-operate withthem they were going to make me co-operate. They told me it was going to beup to me. He took out some papers, he said I should write. He said I shouldwrite my biography. Then he said these are not the things that I had writtenwhen I was from Tanzania. He took me to the camp commander. The name of the camp commander is Pro. Pro told me that, "Here we can doanything that will make you talk. We can kill you, we can destroy you, nobodywill know whatever happened to you,so you are going to act in accordance withyour instructions." He called others. When the commanders came in they saidI must stand in the centre of the room. They told me I should write on thesepapers. I pleaded and told them that I didn't know anything. They took out coffee.Coffee is what they were referring to was sticks when they said coffee. Thenthey started assaulting me on the back with what they called coffee, and theykept on kicking me with their reef boots. I was severely assaulted. I fell down.When I fall down they would pick me up and say, "Continue, talk." I would tellthem I didn't know anything. They threatened me and told me that they were goingto show me. They told me that whatever I was against they were going to makeme to be along the lines. I told them that whatever I had written was true,that I wanted to resign because of certain reasons. They said they were goingto teach me to do whatever they wanted to do. They made me frog jump. They callit number nine. They would make me stand as I am indicating. I had no senseof balance whatsoever, I was falling all over the place, and they would makeme stand erect. They kept on assaulting me. When I fell down they ceased assaultingme. They went out and I was left with only one. That was the commander. Thecommander said to me I don't want to talk. He told me that these people hadn'tdone anything to me, they were going to do the real thing to me. He told me,"We are going to do something with you." He came to me. He took out his pistol.He came to me, he pointed it on my forehead. He asked me if I was preparedto talk. I was very scared, I was shaking. I asked myself as to what am I supposedto say. He said I should open my mouth. He put his pistol inside my mouth. Hetold me he could do anything to me, am I prepared to talk. I was really shaking,and I said to him, "All right, I will talk," and then he removed the pistol,he took some papers. And he said to me, "Tell me, what brought you here? Whatwere you doing inside the country? Who sent you to this mission outside thecountry so that you can infiltrate the ANC?" He wanted me to tell him the missions,all the missions that I undertook in the country. And I started creating stories.I told them all the things that I did, and I told them the people I reportedto while I was still in the country.