Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

NONTHLANTHLA: We were sitting next door in the verandah, it was after 8 o'clock and we heard some gunshots and the boy next door he went to see as to what was happening but he TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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realised that they were shooting in our house.  We went into the house and then we switched off the lights.  We were sitting inside the house all the time and somebody told us that the house is on fire and the fire brigade came and extinguished and the Caspers came and they asked what was happening.  I told them that my mother and my child is in the house and I told the police that there is somebody in the house.  When I tried to find where my mother is I did find her inside there then she was already burnt to death. They asked me who else was in the house.  They dragged my child out of the house and my child managed to run away and they just burnt my house and my mother as well.

YASMINE SOOKA: And at the time when Peter was a member of the Toaster's Gang, did you ever speak to him about his involvement in the gang?

NONTHLANTHLA: We tried to warn him but he never listened until this happened, that is when my mother decided that he must go away because he will invite trouble in the household.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did he still visit the house after he was living in Vusumzi Hostel?

NONTHLANTHLA: He was not coming home anymore.

YASMINE SOOKA: And at the time when he was killed did you know anything about what was happening?

NONTHLANTHLA: I just heard that they have caught him and they are burning him at the shop site.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know who burnt him?

NONTHLANTHLA: It's people that are known to us that burnt him.

YASMINE SOOKA: What was it like for your family with one of your family members involved with the gang and with most of
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the people in the community being opposed to the gang because the gang had begun to associate with the IFP people in the hostel, how was the family treated in this community?

NONTHLANTHLA: They used to come and look for this boy and they would kick the doors although they knew that he was not staying at home but they would come and break down everything and harass us.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you have friends in the community?

NONTHLANTHLA: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: So people still mixed with you?

NONTHLANTHLA: Yes we were on good terms with people.

YASMINE SOOKA: And how do you feel about the fact that Peter died so violently?

NONTHLANTHLA: There was nothing that I could do because these people were showing their pain by killing Peter but the painful part is why did they kill my mother when they knew that Peter is not staying here at home.

YASMINE SOOKA: I think that is sad.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much.  We will see if the other Commissioners have got any further questions to clarify this matter.  You said initially he was a comrade?

NONTHLANTHLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: As far as you know what was the conflict between them and the comrades?

NONTHLANTHLA: As I have already said the matter started that whoever killed must be killed, and then one amongst them killed somebody and was not killed and instead was taken to the police station and they didn't agree with this because why was this person not killed if the other comrades were killed already, that's where the conflict started.

CHAIRPERSON: So these Toasters they were comrades or only
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he was a comrade?

NONTHLANTHLA: All of them were comrades.

CHAIRPERSON: And then there was a conflict and then they parted?

NONTHLANTHLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You said they used to come to your home and break up things?

NONTHLANTHLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Before killing your mother didn't you manage to talk with the leaders of the comrades and explain to them that his person is not staying here at home they must stop doing this?

NONTHLANTHLA: We didn't try and tell them anything because they knew, we kept on telling them all the time.  In the meetings parents with children who were staying at Vusumzi were called and we did go.  They were aware that he was not staying at home.

CHAIRPERSON: After having burnt the property and your mother were there any leaders who came and then you tried to discuss this incident?

NONTHLANTHLA: Do you say after the burning?  No nobody came.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mentioned that the mothers of all the children who were staying at Vusumzi were called to a meeting, who called you to a meeting and what was the meeting about?

NONTHLANTHLA: It was a community meeting whereby all parents were requested to go and fetch their children who were staying at Vusumzi Hostel so that they should discuss all the problems and resolve them.

YASMINE SOOKA: And did the parents do that?
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NONTHLANTHLA: No.  Some tried but these children didn't want to come back anymore.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did your mother or your sister go and try to fetch your nephew back from the hostel?

NONTHLANTHLA: My mother tried but in vain.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  What was the community's reaction when parents explained that they had no control over their children?

NONTHLANTHLA: I don't know what was their reaction. It's because the parents couldn't control the children, they were staying in Vusumzi.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much with this matter that you brought her to us.  Moreover your dedication and to stand in front of the community of Tembisa and tell them about the things that were done to you by people known to you.  There are people who wrote statements and they said they don't want to come forward and talk because they are scared for their lives, but we trust that what you are doing now we trust that this will bring peace amongst the Tembisa residents.  (tape ends.)
 ....for amnesty, we will explain up until your incident as to who did it and how.  All those who are here in the community, moreover the leaders we plead that try in your meetings to try and educate and instill and encourage people that gave statements that they must not be scared, because they feel that people are still on one side and they might be regarded as bystanders and bad people.  So people who have got the courage they must please come forward so that people who were struggling for freedom must be recognised. And people feel that we might be igniting the fire again by asking them to come forward here but it is not so.  But 
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everybody is affected because people were being toasted like meat.  Thank you.