Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-13

KHOZA MGOJO: At what time did you hear the sound?

WITNESS:   It was about somewhere 7 to 8 o'clock.  When I heard this sound I thought, "Oh, maybe it's one of these children are raising a home-made gun," but after that I heard a rumble of guns and there were gunshots all over.  And the children started running, calling and saying, "Mum, we are dying."  Some of them run on top of me, and they ran into the house.  The other one was crying, and the child was trying to get through the window, but they couldn't.  They all fall down, and everything was happening so fast, and it was as if I was dreaming.  I didn't know what was happening.  After that I was thinking.  I thought, "Maybe they have thrown a bomb on us."  I decided to creep on the floor and went to one of the bedrooms.  I couldn't see the condition of the children at that time.  The first boy I noticed that is injured is the Kheswa boy.  His legs was seriously injured.  After that I went up to see.  The boy was trying to get out through the window.  I took some water, trying to pour the water over him.  I tried to do that, and I went out to investigate to see what was happening to the other children who were singing.  And I could still hear these sounds.  When I looked around the girls were lying all over the floor.  One of my daughters was lying down and she was dead.  The Mtolo girl too was lying there, the Linda girl was also lying there, the Zulu girl was also lying on the floor dead, and also the other one from the Mbele family, and Ndlovu.  And that one of mine had the very big wound, and I couldn't see very well.

KHOZA MGOJO: Take your time.  We understand the painful situation you are in.  We can imagine those children lying down on the ground.   (Pause)  After you had seen these children lying what did you see?

WITNESS:   I wanted to look at the side of this man who was supposed to accompany us to the conference.

KHOZA MGOJO: What is the name of this man you are talking about?

WITNESS:   His name is Steven Gcaba.  I shouted, saying, "All the children are dead, they are finished."

KHOZA MGOJO: You may take your time.  We know that this affects you deeply.   (Pause)

WITNESS:   When I came back the neighbours have already arrived.  They tried to help us.  We had to carry some of these children to the clinic.  Some tried to contact police.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time when you saw them how many were they, those who were dead?

WITNESS:   It was the Mavundla child, one from Mtolo, the other one from Mbele, one from the Nyawusa family, one from the Zulu family.  I can't remember well.  I think they were about six, because my daughter died at the clinic.  One died at the hospital.

KHOZA MGOJO: The shooting, the sounds of guns, how long did it take to subside?

WITNESS:   I can't remember well.  It was about five minutes, but it was just a rumbling of guns, and we could hear the groaning of the children, and they were shouting, "Yes, we are finished, we are dying."

KHOZA MGOJO: The people who were shooting, you couldn't see them, you could only hear the sound, is that true?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't see them.

KHOZA MGOJO: The children said they have seen some shades of people.  They said they were wearing police uniform.  Were they wearing police uniform?  This is the people who shot.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.  Yes, we see the children, lying there.  Some are dead, some were injured.

KHOZA MGOJO: What did you do to those who were injured?

WITNESS:   We took them to hospital.  Some of them survived.  some of them, a few of them, died.  One of them who survived, the Kheswa child, is here.  He was injured on the leg.  And all those ones that I am just mentioning they just got  injured on their legs.  The Zulu child was injured on the hand.  The Mkhize child was shot, he had to go to King Edward Hospital.  And the other one from Mkhize had to go to hospital, and the other one from Nyawusa too had to be operated.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who took these children to hospital?  Were they taken on an ambulance?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was an ambulance, and also the police.

KHOZA MGOJO: These police, where were they from?

WITNESS:   They were coming from Paddock.

KHOZA MGOJO: Their uniform, was it similar to the ones that were seen by the children worn by the people who were shooting?

WITNESS:   No, the uniform was not the same, because the one that was weared by the attackers is the one which is the camouflage uniform.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, they were wearing this camouflage uniform, and the others, what kind of uniform were they wearing?

WITNESS:  They were wearing a green uniform.

KHOZA MGOJO: Does it mean that's an SAP?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were SAP Police.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it true that your daughter was pregnant at the time she was shot, was seven months pregnant?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

KHOZA MGOJO: During the funeral where did you bury all these children?

WITNESS:   One man from Mambilini gave us a place.  He gave us this place, and then we got a graver to dig a big grave and we buried them in a mass funeral.  And the others were buried - a few of them were buried at their homes.  And those were - I am talking about those were the ones who were killed before they arrived at the scene where the shooting took place, those who were killed while they were going to board the bus which was coming to collect us.  These killers, they killed us.  After that they went towards the bus and they meet those who were coming to assist us and they also killed them.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was there any investigation?

WITNESS:   There wasn't any investigation, because this happened on Friday, and then it was Saturday.  A lot of police came, and also they came with a helicopter.  And on Monday they said, "We have to go to site," and they took us to site on Monday on their cars, and they started taking statements, but I couldn't - I don't know the results of what had happened.  And they were two investigators, a white and a black investigator.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know their names?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know their names, because when we arrived at site they questioned me.  I explained to them.  They asked me about one child who was my neighbour.  I tried to tell them about this boy and they took me to another investigator, who is now on pension.  He was from Mvuchini.  This investigator asked this boy exactly what causes all the problems in the area.  They said it's because this is political affiliation.  And this young man said, "I hate

KHOZA MGOJO: /"this

KHOZA MGOJO: this woman because she is an IFP," and he was asked to which organisation did he belong and he said, "I am an ANC member."

KHOZA MGOJO: Was there any inquests?  I am saying there has been an inquest concerning the death of your daughter.  I have it in front of me that.  Those police who were helping, where were they from?

WITNESS:   They were from Port Shepstone.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said there were police from Paddock.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Our place or area is under Paddock.

KHOZA MGOJO: And thereafter you said like they went to - you went to Port Shepstone Police Station.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

KHOZA MGOJO: It is true that you developed hypertension?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.  My health is not good.  Even at work my madam advises me about my health because now I depend on tablets, pain tablets like Panado, and she advises me that I mustn't overuse them.  I use at least three of them a day.  I also have high blood pressure, and I think that is very dangerous.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where are you staying at the moment?

WITNESS:   I am still staying at Nsangweni.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it true that when you look at your house or the graves all these sicknesses comes back to you?