Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-11-23

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, I think that is so but hasn't it been Mr Maseko's evidence that he reported directly to Msiki?  That seems to have been the gist of his evidence?  In fact, when I initially read the bundle, he had suggested that he had been instructed and ordered by the director of operations, Mr Letslape Mpashele when this repossession unit was initially formed and that this was the first operation of it's kind to have been sent into the country.  But as he gave evidence I got the impression that Mr Mpashlele did not feature very much in his operations and that he was directly reporting to Msiki in Botswana.  How do you tie the two, if you could assist us in that regard?

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Madam Chair, it's exactly that.  Msiki was stationed in Botswana, Letslape was not in Botswana himself though he was a director of operations so he has to report nearest, where he is nearer, until Letslape came inside the country, it's then that he reported directly to the director of operations when they came inside the country.  Then the person who was nearest to him was Msiki that time in Botswana, so he has to communicate with him.  If I may throw some light Madam Chair, though he was commuting, Letslape, between Botswana and Bulawayo in Zimbabwe, so he came and that some report as a director of operations he has to go to the front line but he had to report to the person who was stationed there to have that, so that is the reason why he is mentioning Msiki because he was not in contact with Letslape because he was moving around as the director of operations so he has to report to the person who was there, then he is the person who in turn reports to Letslape about what happened.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed Mr Mbandazayo.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Madam Chair and as such, Madam Chair, it is therefore my submission that Thapelo Maseko, when he acted did not act for personal gain nor out of malice against the victims but at that time he was involved in the liberation struggle and as such what he did was in pursuance of the liberation struggle.
	Madam Chair, I also want to go back to this question of Msiki and what I've said to this Committee.  Luckily Madam Chair, what you see in the application of Maseko, is what is in the documents of the SAP documents.  Some of these incidents came from Maseko voluntarily but they are in the possession of him.  When he was arrested and deported from Lesotho to here, the documents were there and they were confronted because when Letslape came inside the country there were now reports, they have to make reports.  Most of these are in writing which happened.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that the incident that Mr Maseko has alluded to ...[intervention]

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: No, this one Madam Chair, was not reported, this one, that's why I'm saying that he came with it voluntarily, all the incidents he was involved in.  He himself submitted information.  The Police have certain information about some incidents because they confiscated the document and they have written reports which were submitted, the documents were confiscated in Umtata and also others in Lesotho, so they have written reports.  All others were out of Maseko himself which were before the writing down of the reports so he came with them voluntarily to the Police, that "I was involved before this in these incidents."

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, he has not been charged in respect of any of the incidents...[intervention]