Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-11-03

LUSINDISO POYO: After Mqiza shot these people, we were told to put them in Mzwandile's van, at the back and Mzwandile said there were tools in his house.  I cannot remember whether we went to inspect the others that were left on the other side, or we went straight to Mzwandile's place.  I think we went to those other people who were injured before, and when we got there, they were not there.  We went into this place that looked more like a rivulet and it was impossible for us to get some torch or something to light the place and see what was happening.  Mzwandile told us that we would go to his place and get the spades.  He went to Mrs (indistinct) house, to the backyard, a house in that backyard, and he got the spades.  We went out and when we got there, he stopped a car somewhere and he looked around, and he pointed a place where we were supposed to dig.  The marshals dug, I was not involved in the digging, but it is not because I couldn't dig, but the way I was so frightened that day, I don't think I would be able to do anything.   I went to stand behind Mzwandile, he had this big firearm, Mzwandile that is.  I think it was a G3.  As we were there in this small piece of land, he was also moving around.  I also had this pumpgun with me.  I was looking around, trying to see if there wasn't any person coming to disturb.  After that, those people were buried in that hole.  The spades were taken to the car and Mzwandile took us to our places of residence.   I requested to start with me, to go and drop me home, but he decided that I would be the last person to be dropped home, he did so and he took me back home.  That is so.

MR MGIDLANA: Were you a member of either the SDU or of MK at that time, apart from being a member of the ANC?

LUSINDISO POYO: I was not an SDU member, nor MK.

MR MGIDLANA: So, when you were going to fetch this shovels and all that, with whom were you?

LUSINDISO POYO: Mzwandile was driving, he was sitting with Fundisele in the passenger seat, and it was Noteza and myself and other boys who were dressed in marshals' uniform and those who were going to be shot.

MR MGIDLANA: Before this particular day, did you know these people that were killed ultimately?

LUSINDISO POYO: No, I never knew, it was the first time seeing them.

MR MGIDLANA: Are you able to recall as to exactly how many were they?

LUSINDISO POYO: Initially they were six in number, two remained, the two that were seriously injured and four were taken towards Nzimbeni where they were finished off with guns.  I think they were six all in all.  We left the two that was severely injured and we left with the four that was finished off at Nzimbeni with firearms.

MR MGIDLANA: So the four that were finished off near Nzimbeni were all that four, all that four were killed near Nzimbeni?  The four that had not initially been injured?

LUSINDISO POYO: As to whether they were injured or not, I think they were injured when somebody suggested that they should be finished off with knife-stabbing, but we did not see whether did it start or not.  As to whether they were stabbed or not, they did not die of the stab wounds, that is why they were finished off at a later stage.   There is the possibility that they might have been injured, but they were bleeding, but if they were bleeding, it was not due to the gunshot, maybe it was due to stabbing.

MR MGIDLANA: As it were, you were there up until they were buried, where they were buried?

LUSINDISO POYO: Yes, I was there from the beginning right till the end.

MR MGIDLANA: Is there anything that you wish to highlight about the incident?

LUSINDISO POYO: At the moment there is nothing that I can recall that I would say.

MR MGIDLANA: And you have heard the testimony of Mr Guleni, do you confirm it in relation to how the incident occurred?

LUSINDISO POYO: That is correct.

MR MGIDLANA: That is his evidence Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MGIDLANA

ADV SIBANYONI: Just one question, you said you were neither MK nor SDU, were you at the time of the incident, a supporter of any political organisation?

LUSINDISO POYO: Yes, I was a member of the African National Congress.

ADV SIBANYONI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malusi?

MR MALUSI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.   Mr Poyo, you say when you were coming from the rally, you took the APLA members to Mqiza's home, did I get you correctly?

LUSINDISO POYO: We took them from the rally to Mqiza's house.  We first started at the rally and then to Mqiza's house.

MR MALUSI: I take it that your answer is yes, you took them to Mqiza's home?  What was the purpose of that visit to Mqiza's home?

LUSINDISO POYO: The purpose was to search them, to find out what was in their bags, that is what I think, because nobody informed me as to what is exactly, what was going to happen, I just saw action.   I just saw their bags being searched and that is all.

MR MALUSI: So I would be correct to say by the time you were at Mqiza's home, you already knew that the APLA members were not armed?

LUSINDISO POYO: I knew after they had been searched.

MR MALUSI: Were the APLA members questioned at all at Mqiza's home?

LUSINDISO POYO: They were not much questions at Mqiza's house, other than the fact of who they were, but most questioning took place where they were being shot, not at Mqiza's house.

MR MALUSI: Was there any particular reason why you left Mqiza's house?

LUSINDISO POYO: I think that they wanted to definitely ascertain as to who were they and where were they from and where were they going, but nobody said that to me.   I just heard somebody saying that we must take them to that other place to question them thoroughly after they had been searched.

MR MALUSI: Yes, and they were questioned thoroughly and according to your version, Mqiza accidentally shot some of them?

LUSINDISO POYO: That is correct, sir.

MR MALUSI: After Mqiza accidentally shot some of them, a decision was taken that the rest of the APLA members should be killed, did you associate yourself with that decision?

LUSINDISO POYO: No, I didn't associate myself with that decision.

MR MALUSI: And if I got your testimony correctly, you didn't even participate in any material respect, that is after the decision was taken, you did not shoot them and you did not dig the graves, you were just standing around?

LUSINDISO POYO: I was watching and I was staying on guard.  I was told to keep an eye on them so that they should not run away.  Whilst they were digging, we were told to monitor the situation and make sure that nobody disturbs.

MR MALUSI: To the best of your knowledge, why was the decision taken that the four APLA members who had survived the shooting by Mqiza, should be killed?  What was the objective of killing them?

LUSINDISO POYO: I heard Mzwandile during the argument with Fundisele as to they should be taken to the hospital or they should be killed or not.   At that moment, I did not know as to which side was I on, but there was nothing that I could say against Mzwandile because I took him as somebody who was an expert, who knew everything more than me.  I could have suggested anything, but there was nothing that I could have a say in this, because I regarded him as the best.

MR MALUSI: Yes, you regarded him as the best and you did not even know what was happening.  Did you perhaps ask when you were leaving the scene where the first APLA members were shot, did you ask at all when you were leaving with the other four, "where are we taking these, what are we to do with them?"

LUSINDISO POYO: The only question that I asked was directed to Fundisele, not in the presence of Mzwandile.  There is nothing that I asked of Mzwandile as to what is going to happen, all my questions were directed to Fundisele, who would tell me that.  But although he did not tell me exactly where are we going to, but he just said that we are being told that we are going, we are going to some other place.