Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR WILLS: : What I'm trying to say was do you recall him as being the person who you shot outside the school that evening?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I remember that.

MR WILLS: : Right I'm going to now turn to paragraph 133 where that section is entitled: `Attempts to influence the Bail Application in favour of IFP Members'.   Again that evidence has been given by both Mr Mkhize and Mr Mhambo.   Do you confirm the evidence that they gave in regard to this incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I confirm it.

MR WILLS: : And do you confirm the attack, the evidence that Mr Mhambo gave.   I know Mr Khize wasn't there and he didn't testify to this incident.   But do you confirm the evidence that Mr Mhambo gave in regard to the attack on the bus stop near Nzuza's house, some time in 1993?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I confirm that.

MR WILLS: : Now this next section in paragraph 135:  `The Strategies to Avenge the death of Constable Dunka'.   Mr Mkhize and Mr Mhambo have testified.   Do you confirm the evidence in that regard?   Their evidence in that regard, as it relates to you?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I was present indeed.

MR WILLS: : There is just one thing that I want to highlight in this section and that comes from paragraph 136.   You mentioned there that one of the persons involved was Themba Nkosi Mtetwe and this is the same Mr X, from your Criminal Trial.   Is this one of the incidents where he assisted you people?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : Now you will see on paragraph 139 - Sorry I just want to go back.   Page 138, you say that - Sorry, paragraph 138, page 184, you say that after this incident, the night attack, Kina reported to Mrs Mbuyazi what had been done and that she was very pleased.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.   She was with Chief Motaba.

MR WILLS: : Yes.   Now I'm not going to deal with the attempt to kill Japi Tarliwe.   This is one of the incidents that occurred at Bushbuck Ridge, so it does not concern the people here.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And we will deal with that at a later stage.   I want to touch on the story you relate about being hidden, to avoid arrest, and this commences on page 185 at paragraph 140.   You say that you received a telephone call at Mrs Mbuyazi's house.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Who telephoned you?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was MZ Khumalo.

MR WILLS: : And what did he tell you on the telephone?

MR HLONGWANE: : He told me that the Empangeni police were looking for me.   They wanted to arrest me.

MR WILLS: : And so what happened?   He told you to report to Ulundi.   Is that not correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : I left eSikhawini for Ulundi and I spoke to MZ directly in his office, and he  I spoke to him directly, that is MZ Khumalo.   After having spoken to him, he then took me to Mangeti, that's a place.   He actually took me to ...(indistinct), that's a shop.   The shop belongs to Mr Mashubani.

MR WILLS: : Yes, why did he take you there?   What was the purpose of you going to this area?

MR HLONGWANE: : I was been hidden away from the police.

MR WILLS: : Yes and you say in paragraph 141 that in the car, MZ praised you for the work you'd done and called you a real Inkatha soldier.   Do you confirm that?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And you confirm that for some weeks, you remained in this area hiding from the police, with other persons who were also hiding from the police.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : With two other persons and eventually, a third person well another person came after one had left.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Now just to be clear, you were hiding with two boys, Themba Nkosi Ndlovu and Umlu, a person by the name of Umlu (I can't pronounce the surname) it's spelt Mgcoya.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And you lived in a tent in the bush, and that either MZ or his son, what was his son's - what was MZ's son's name, brought you food?

MR HLONGWANE: : Lalilani is his name.   Lalilani Khumalo.

MR WILLS: : Right I want to turn to the incident that starts at paragraph 144 and on page 186.   Now the incidents that we are going to talk about now, concern your operation in the Mandini area and the Silumbele area.   Do you understand?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I do understand.

MR WILLS: : Now, in these areas, you weren't operating with the other members of the eSikhawini hit-squad.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : So essentially, you'd been taken out of the eSikhawini hit-squad at this period of your operations, and you were going to start operating in another area.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : So do I understand it then that from that point of time on, it was no longer your duty to report or to follow Mr Kina Mkhize's instruction.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And is it not so that to just digress very briefly, that you had been used quite extensively in a number of areas.   For example, you had been used initially in the Mpumalanga area.   When someone as efficient as you was needed in an area where Inkatha was needing some strength, you'd be transferred to that area.  Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And can you just briefly tell us the areas where you operated in?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : You don't have to tell us what you did.   I am not interested in that.   All I am wanting you to tell the Committee and members of the public, are the areas in which you operated in.

MR HLONGWANE: : Mpumalanga, Mandini, eSikhawini and Ermelo, and also Mangeti, that is Chief Motaba's place.

MR WILLS: : I mean why did you go to these different areas.   What caused you to go to these different areas?

MR HLONGWANE: : First of all, people cannot identify me.   I can infiltrate the enemy and secondly, I can run faster.   I look like a comrade.   I also run faster than the rest of my comrades.   Thirdly, I can jump the highest fences and I am also brave.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you, Mr Hlongwane, did you when you moved from one area to another, did you do that on instructions, or did you do that on your, out of your own choice?

MR HLONGWANE: : I would only follow instructions, a command.

MR WILLS: : Yes we know, for example, that you started your operations in Mpumalanga.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Then you were instructed to go to Ermelo.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And who instructed you to go to Ermelo?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was D Luthuli.

MR WILLS: : Yes, then you were in Ermelo and you received instructions to go to eSikhawini.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct indeed.

MR WILLS: : And who instructed you to go to eSikhawini?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was D Luthuli.

MR WILLS: : And when you were in eSikhawini, you received instructions to go to the Mangeti area.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And who gave you those instructions to go to Mangeti?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was Mr MZ Khumalo.

MR WILLS: : Now, because you had moved out of the Mr Mkhize's jurisdiction, it seems that - how did you know what you were to do in this Mangeti area?

MR HLONGWANE: : Gerry Mdunda is not superior in the hit-squad.  If Gerry Mdunda had issued an instruction, that would be the same as Kina had done.

MR WILLS: : Would it not be accurate to say that Gerry Mdunda had an area of operations that was different to Mr Mkhize's area?

MR HLONGWANE: : Gerry Mdunda would operate in all the places, all the areas.