Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Mr Buthelezi was crying when he approached me.  He said oh, no, Bulelwa has died.  I said please calm down, you are crying, I can't hear what you are saying.
	He said Bulelwa is dead, and I am here, sent by Mr Mokoena to come and fetch you because at that time, there was another man, an ordinary inhabitant of the township.

MR MAPOMA: The Mr Buthelezi that you are talking about, is that Mr Buthelezi who was killed amongst the other youth?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is the same person.

MR MAPOMA: Okay, continue then.  Yes, I was together with another man who came to tell me something privately, and Mr Buthelezi said Mr Mokoena want me, and I wanted to go but that man who was a citizen of the township, said stop.  You know very well, you are not in very good terms with these SDU men, now it will be easy for them to catch up with you and kill you.

MR MAPOMA: Were you not in good terms with the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, we were not in good terms.

MR MAPOMA: What problems did you have with the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: My Lord, I can mention many problems.  Even the community can support me on that.
	The first problem is related to when the community was saying we have an SDU, it is patrolling, but people keep on dying.  At night when we come from work, we are harassed and assaulted.
	When I was asked, they said where are you from.

MR MAPOMA: No, before then.   Let's go to this SDU, don't be fast please so as to allow the interpreters.
	Now, when was the SDU formed in Muleleki?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: According to my knowledge the SDU in Muleleki was formed in May if not June.

MR MAPOMA: When it was formed, was the community involved?

CHAIRPERSON: May or June of which year?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: 1993.

MR MAPOMA: Can you describe briefly how was it formed?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: At the time Muleleki was still under construction.  They were still busy with the building of toilets, and people gradually occupied their sites.  If I remember well, people who resided in Block E and D were the first to form the SDU.

MR MAPOMA: Was the community involved in the formation of the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No, My Lord.  The community did not have an opportunity in taking part.

MR MAPOMA: Now, what problems were there with the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I said there were many problems, because as the leaders of the community, all structures were supposed to report to us as the leaders of the community, but now they did not want to subscribe to us.  They said we must subscribe under them.

MR MAPOMA: When you say us, what do you mean?  As a Civic or as the ANC Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, the Civic.

MR MAPOMA: Now, as the Civic, did you call a community meeting to address the problems that you had with them?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, a meeting was called to discuss this issue.

MR MAPOMA: Are there any other problems which were highlighted in that meeting about the activities of the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, sir.  We explained to the community that the members of the SDU are giving us problems, the way the operate.  When we called them to come and appear before you, they don't want to, now we don't know what steps to follow.

MR MAPOMA: The way they operate, what do you mean, what way did they operate?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I told you already that there were many problems, for instance when they patrolled at night, when they pass in the street and they see that your lights are still on, they get into your house, assault you, ask you why don't you go to bed.
	Some of the women were being raped, people were killed.  When they patrolled sir, when they found you outside, they would assault you.  When they pass by the road, because that place did not have street lights as yet, now when there was light in your house, they would get into your house, and ask you why don't you go to bed.

MR MAPOMA: Now, let's come to this SDU.  Have you seen all the applicants?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, I saw them but ...

MR MAPOMA: Were the applicants part of the SDU you are talking about?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: Now, when these problems were highlighted in a meeting, was the SDU present in that meeting?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They were present My Lord, because the person who was always there is Tsepo and Nxeba.

MR MAPOMA: When these accusations were given against them, what was their response?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: When these accusations were taken out, they were not happy at all.  They then said SANCO wants to rule them and yet, they were independent.

CHAIRPERSON: Is SANCO and Civic one and the same thing?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: Now was ANC Youth League part of the meeting?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, every organisation reported to the Civic.  They were members of the township, so they were present.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when these problems were highlighted, are there any members of the ANC Youth League who were saying something also about the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Every member of the community has the right to speak at the meeting, called by the Civic.

CHAIRPERSON: Did members of the ANC Youth League speak at this meeting and say anything about the SDU's?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They spoke but they did not say anything bad.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.  Now was there a specific response from the SDU to the ANC Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, there is something that the SDU said.

MR MAPOMA: What is it?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson, I have already told you that we had problems.  They said it was better as members of the committee, Sectional Committee, shouldn't we fight with you because you don't want to understand.
	They wanted to go straight to the community, they were supposed to come to the Civic to report because everybody had to start first at the Civics.

MR MAPOMA: My question is, is there anything that the SDU members said about the ANC Youth League or is there any specific response that was directed to the ANC Youth League from the SDU in that meeting?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, sir there is something they said.

MR MAPOMA: What is it?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They said you members of the ANC Youth League, you must better keep quiet.

MR MAPOMA: Okay.  Now, let's come back to the incident of the killing of Bulelwa.
	You were saying Mr Buthelezi told you that Bulelwa has been killed, and was crying and he called you.  What did you do thereafter?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I did not go, but at that time because the community heard Mr Buthelezi's cry, they came together and they said, guys you are aware that the SDU is now attacking and our leaders are now dying.
	And it was rumoured that during that December time they were going to attack leaders of the community.  Now we had to stand together to protect the community.

MR MAPOMA: Then what did you do as the community then?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As the community, we left, we searched for members of the SDU, we did not find some of them until we arrived at Blanko.

MR MAPOMA: Now, when you say as the community, do you mean members of the ANC Youth League were involved also and other people of the community other than ANC Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The members of the community and members of the ANC Youth League.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, you arrived at Blanko's place, what happened?