Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-13

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: And the third one was Mtelezi.  I entered in that van and Martin Kanyele.  When this van left it went directly to that house where those people were standing, the people who were shooting us.
	When we were just approaching that house a petrol bomb was directed to the van and the van almost overturned.  And then we stopped, and then we came out and station commander then said we should go there.  When we arrived there we surrounded the house, and Mtelezi, Dlamini were at the front and they knocked there, and there was no response.  And then Dlamini shot at the door and it was open.  
	And when the doors opened the son there in that house was there, and Mtelezi then shot that boy and he fell.  Thereafter when Ngobo came a sergeant he realised that that was the case, and then realised that we could be arrested.  So this person must just be killed now because that was not the case.  And then that's how the person was killed.  And thereafter ...(intervention)

MR WILLS: Sorry, who actually killed this person, do you recall?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Dlamini finished off.

MR WILLS: By shooting him?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes.

MR WILLS: Continue.

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: By that time we had explosives, there were cottages in that house - backrooms.  When I went there because I heard the gunshot, in that backyard Martin was standing there and told me that "I just shot a girl there", and when I enter, it's a female who was pregnant, and she's dead.

MR WILLS: And who was that that had shot this woman?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Martin Kanyele.

MR WILLS: Now from your evidence it seems clear that at that stage you didn't kill anyone, is that right?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: No, by then I hadn't because I was at the corner of the house, I was approaching and Mogwaza was down there watching the car.

MR WILLS: So why are you applying for amnesty in respect of this incident?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: The actual fact is that I know that times will go by and that the case - the court case will actually come out, and no-one was arrested there.  So I want everything that happened while I was there, I want it to be revealed and to be know that I was also there, although I was not directly involved.  But it should be know that that what happened there, I was around myself.

MR WILLS: And is it not so that despite the fact that you were a policeman at that stage, and despite the fact that being a policeman you had a duty to report crimes, and you failed to report the crime.

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes it's like that.   The sergeant was there, and something was supposed to be done, but nothing happened.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now I want you to turn to the second incident you referred to in regard to attacks on ANC areas in Ndwedwe.  That involves the incident where you were involved in an attack at a school.  Can you explain or give the details of that incident to the Committee Members?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: On a certain day, although I do not remember when, we were patrolling in the Ndwedwe area.  The soldiers worked hand in hand with the ANC.  I would like to explain this.  Because of this fact these soldiers were directed by the ANC to raid Mr Mfayela's house.  And at that house they stole an amount of R3000-00, and we did not know how we could in fact get ourselves involved in this incident.
	We therefore decided that some Telewenies should go to Osendiswene and wait for them, and they should in fact throw oranges and apples into the hippos because the soldiers normally thought that when you throw something into the hippo, it was a grenade, a hand grenade.  When the soldiers came to report this incident at the police station we were called to intervene, and we asked them why they worked with the Verulam Police Station instead of us.  
	They then started working with us, and from that time each battalion had two policemen working with them.  I was in one and Moosa Pungula was in the other.  As we were patrolling around Sindeswene and we passed a certain school, I did not know its name.  A group of people from the area who apparently had been holding a meeting came out and ran away.  We did not discuss this, but we just started shooting.

MR WILLS: Now why did you shoot - I mean, who did you think you were shooting at?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Not that we thought of it.  We knew it for a fact that these were ANC people because Inkatha people did not go into that area, and normally after they'd held a meeting the houses will be burnt and people will be killed.  I remember one day we had to go collect corpses from that area who had been killed by the people of Sindeswene.

MR WILLS: You say you shot at this crowd, do you know if anybody was killed, or injured?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Some did get injured because the commander came to report that some people had been shot at at Sindeswene and some were injured, but I don't know exactly how many were injured.  No-one died in that incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Wills, just one question.
	Mr Ndlovu when you were firing at this group of people, can you give an estimation of the distance that you were away from them when you were shooting - how far away were they from you?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: I think from where I am they were about at that first door.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we've estimated that at about 30 paces, do you agree?

MR WILLS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: About 30 paces.

MR WILLS: May I continue?  Mr Ndlovu I'm not sure, I can't recall exactly who shot, you said you were patrolling with the SADF at that stage.  Was it just you who shot or were there other people who shot?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: I and Moosa Pungula as well as the soldiers shot at these people.  The SADF used R.4, and we used shotguns.

CHAIRPERSON: And how many soldiers were there with you who shot, can you give us some indication?

MR NDLOVU: If my memory serves me well, I think about 12 in total.

MR WILLS: As I understand, your position is that the soldiers were in fact in two vehicles, is that correct, and there were about 6 soldiers in each vehicle?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: But can you say that you saw all of those 12 soldiers shoot, or not?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: When people are firing it is difficult to look around and see if everybody's firing, but shots were being fired, and then they only stopped when they realised that the people were running too far away from them.

MR WILLS: Now were you ever arrested or prosecuted, or charged in respect of this incident?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: No.

MR WILLS: The final incident which we want to apply for amnesty for Mr Ndlovu, is the death of Bongane Ntombela.  Now this occurred in the Pietermaritzburg area, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes Chair.

MR WILLS: Now as I understand your history at about that time, after being stationed in Ndwedwe, you were then stationed in Mpumalanga for a while.  Is that right?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And then you received a message to travel to Pietermaritzburg for a specific reason, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now can you tell us what happened then - can you tell us how you got to Maritzburg?