Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 2000-02-15

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes I regarded his advice as important because he was an educated person who understood better about court matters as well as about the organisation.

MR DEHAL: For that matter, as you've mentioned already in your statement, your brother was killed in a car accident a few days before the deceased was murdered or executed but you in your trial said that your brother was killed by witchcraft at the hands of the deceased?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes that rumour had been mentioned before, even before the death of the deceased by my family.

MR DEHAL: Did other comrades in your area arrested on charges of this sort ever used witchcraft as a defence to your knowledge?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes some of them were arrested before me.

MR DEHAL: And do you know what success rate they achieved as a result of that defence?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Well they were acquitted that is why I also felt that it would be a good idea to use that difference in court because I had hoped that I would also be acquitted like the rest of them.

MR DEHAL: You were convicted of murder and sentenced to death.  You received the death penalty which was subsequently commuted to life imprisonment, correct?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: And you are presently serving your sentence as life imprisonment and held at the moment at Westville Prison?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: Sorry Sir, bear with me?  Thank you Sir.
	Mr Mafu, is it correct that you were shown only late today a statement allegedly deposed to by Mr Cyril Shezi the one you talked of, that this is - Mr Chairperson, this is not contained in the bundle, I don't know whether a copy is available to you?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes I was shown this statement.

MR DEHAL: It's a five page statement.  If you do not have copies - you have, I see.

CHAIRPERSON: Exhibit B.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Your copy, could you read the right hand column for instance?

MR DEHAL: Not very legibly, no.  I have a problem with that on all my pages.
	Mr Mafu you have ...(intervention)

JUDGE DE JAGER: I'm sorry, could we - ours have been cut off, the end of each line.  Have you got a better copy perhaps?

MR MAPOMA: No Chairperson, unfortunately mine as well.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand it was faxed to us and this is a result of the fax machine.

MR DEHAL: Mr Chairperson, judging your copy, looking at it from here it would appear as though mine is substantially more legible than yours.  I have no difficulty in you using mine, my only difficulty is I've made lots of notes and annotations all about it.

JUDGE DE JAGER: No, I know somebody represented Mr Shezi and he in fact announced himself at our offices.  Perhaps he could be contacted and be informed about the problem and that he should send us a better copy or even the original?

MR MAPOMA: Yes I'll try to do that Chairperson.

MR DEHAL: May I proceed Sir?  Thank you.
	Mr Mafu, this statement of Mr Shezi's - sorry, may I just deal with that statement?  You have no difficulty with him distancing himself from Operation Vula for you agree he was not a part of Operation Vula to your knowledge, is that correct?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: But you say you have difficulties with him distancing himself from having given you instructions to execute the deceased because you insist he gave you instructions?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes I do have difficulty with that.

MR DEHAL: Do you agree with the ANC stance on witchcraft killing as is contained in his statement.  I know you don't have a copy before you but if you recall I read it out to you.  He says the ANC did not agree with the killing of persons who dealt with witchcraft or purely premised on witchcraft?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes ANC policy does not dictate that people that practice witchcraft should be killed.

MR DEHAL: As a leader in the ANC as you've outlined earlier you understood that and disciplined your cadres on the same understanding, didn't you?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: Sorry, bear with me Sir?  Thank you Sir.
	Finally, Mr Mafu, are you aware of Radio Freedom, what it is, Sitchabas and what they are?  If you are please tell us?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Could you please repeat the question?

MR DEHAL: Mr Mafu, are you aware of Radio Freedom, what it is, whose voice it is and Sitchabas, the document, what it is and what it relates to?  If you are please tell us?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes I'm aware of that.  Sitchaba is a publication that educated us on how to conduct ourselves, how to deal with our enemy and how the organisation operated.

MR DEHAL: And Radio Freedom?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Radio Freedom used to discuss issues on how to gain our independence.

MR DEHAL: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much, that's the evidence of the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DEHAL

CHAIRPERSON: Questions?

MR PANDAY: Mr Chairperson, before we go any further.  I like to know what is the progress in the interpretation of page 6?

MR DEHAL: Well I've been seated here all the while as my learned colleague well knows, I've not done anything further in that regard.  I will certainly after this matter adjourns endeavour to do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Well the young lady went out, I thought to attend to it but she hasn't come back and I can't see anyone else in the office sitting here at the moment.

MR DEHAL: I don't mind sending my assistant to go and check.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you?  It's Debby, Deborah.

MR DEHAL: Deborah Quinn.

MR PANDAY: Mr Chairperson, if I may proceed?  I'll endeavour to lead the - actually cross-examine the witness, the applicant, from page 11 insofar as the answers his disclosed to the relevant questions and let's see to what point does that take us.

MR DEHAL: May I suggest Mr Chairperson, least it be argued that my learned colleague was placed ill at ease, he perhaps should aspects that are not so contentious, on aspects that are directly relevant to these pages and the interpretation thereof, if he has any?

MR PANDAY: Well I intend endeavouring to question the applicant insofar as the interpreted version is from page 11 onwards ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The only one that is being challenged in 10(b).

MR PANDAY: Well Mr Chairperson, the applicant seems to mention that he does not agree with the correctness and truthfulness of the interpretation, that's to embrace pages 11 to 17 I think it is?

JUDGE DE JAGER: But can't you deal with another aspect for instance?  Exhibit B, the statement of Shezi in the meantime?

MR PANDAY: As Mr Chairperson pleases.
	Mr Mafu, you mentioned that you trained in Transkei.  For how long did you train there?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: It was a year and 9 months long.

MR PANDAY: And in what year did you go to Transkei.

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: I first went there in 1987.

MR PANDAY: You say 1987?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes in November.

MR PANDAY: Now to be recruited as an MK member did you first need to be a member of the ANC?

MAFANDO JOKONIA MAFU: Yes the people who were recruited into MK were ANC members.

MR PANDAY: Right now ...(intervention)

JUDGE DE JAGER: Mr Panday is it disputed that he was a member of the ANC, that he was a member of MK?

MR PANDAY: Well we're merely trying to establish that Mr Chairperson, his membership.  If Mr Chairperson will allow me to phrase the next question and we'd be able to move forward and establish as to whether he was ...(intervention)

JUDGE DE JAGER: Yes because if you haven't got any evidence contradicting that, it's no use wasting time, hours and hours asking about - on a fishing expedition to find out whether in fact he joined in September or November of whatever the date may be.