Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-07-26

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson.  The interception by means of the source, was of such a nature that we could exercise that control and then place one of our own people in that position to transport the terrorists.

MR HATTINGH: Who was the person that you sent to fetch them?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: In the first case it was a Captain Gladstone Mose.

MR HATTINGH: Was he connected to the police?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: And where was he stationed?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: He was stationed at Vlakplaas, Chairperson.

MR HATTINGH: And he was a member of C1?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: Very well.  The arrangement was for him to meet the people near the border, or at the border?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, that is entirely correct, and he would transport these persons along the Houtkop road.  Before he was sent to the border we went to observe, and when I say "we", it is myself and Mr Pienaar - there may have been additional members, I'm open to correction on that matter - along with Lieutenant or Captain Mose, so that when he would approach the point where we were going to set up the ambush, he would flicker his lights and then pull of the road.  The excuse would be that he had to perform a natural function and then that would have been within our ambush area where we would have been laying in wait.

MR HATTINGH: With the exception of the flickering of the lights, would there have been any other signs that you arranged, that you can recall?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson, when he climbed out the vehicle and it was clear to him, or that he had reasonable grounds to believe that these persons were armed, he would run around the front of the vehicle.  In the first place, it would have been indicative to us that these persons were armed and secondly, it would facilitate that he would leave the range of fire as quickly as possible.

MR HATTINGH: This place, you selected it during the day?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, it was late afternoon when we made those arrangements.

MR HATTINGH: Did you know what time these persons would cross the border, what time you had to meet them there?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Chairperson, I'm not certain.  I'm open to correction if other members can assist me, but the time span was broad, it may have been anytime between 9 o'clock and 10 o'clock that night, up to and including 4 o'clock the following morning, or even later.

MR HATTINGH: So this would have taken place during the course of the night?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes.  Chairperson, if I recall correctly this source did not have the authority regarding what time the people would depart.  I do recall that a time was given, indicating when the transport would be ready at the Swaziland border.

MR HATTINGH: And the transport would then have to wait there until they arrived?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson.

MR HATTINGH: And then did you take up position in the place that was prearranged?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson.  I have a vague recollection that we had a second vehicle with two Security Branch members, which we arranged to drive in the direction of the Swaziland border on the Houtkop road.  They would also serve as an early warning.  And then there was also a road which ran to the southern side, from where this pick-up point would be.  Their function would be that if a vehicle approached from that side, to cut off that vehicle so that there would not be any kind of confusion and so that the terrorists would not climb into the wrong vehicle.

MR HATTINGH: And did the vehicle arrive at the place where you had taken up position?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, that's correct.

MR HATTINGH: Can you recall whether any sign was given, when the lights were flickered?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson.  With the arrival, in the direction from where we laid the ambush, the vehicles lights flickered brightly and this vehicle pulled over in the middle of the ambush area.

MR HATTINGH: And Captain Mose, what did he do?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Chairperson, he climbed out of the vehicle and ran around the vehicle on the front side of it, as the sign had been agreed.

MR HATTINGH: The signal that these persons were armed?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR HATTINGH: Yes, please proceed.

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: One of the members, I think it was Mr Hayes, had a vehicle battery which was connected to a high intensity searchlight, or hand searchlight and this was shone on the vehicle.  What was clear, which we had not foreseen, was that the inside of the windows were completely misted up.  I hesitated for a moment with firing.

MR HATTINGH: When you say that the windows were misty, do you concede that you could not see into the vehicle?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Well I couldn't see at all and the entire vehicle on the left, front and back side, was completely misted up.

MR HATTINGH: What sort of vehicle was it?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: It was a 1300 or 1600 Corolla vehicle, which belonged to the Investigating Branch of Piet Retief.

MR HATTINGH: You say that you couldn't see into the vehicle, what did you do then?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Chairperson, I must have hesitated for about three to four seconds.  I then opened fire on the left front door, which was my angle of fire or my target.  The rest of the members, as it was agreed, would upon the signal of my fire - or the fact at least that I started firing, would be the signal for them to begin firing on their selected targets, such as the left back door and the back window.

MR HATTINGH: Did they do that?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, they did that.

MR HATTINGH: Can you recall how many shots you fired?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Chairperson, I would say approximately 8 to 11 or 12 shots.  I was armed with an uzzi sub-machine gun of a 9mm calibre.

MR HATTINGH: And the other members, did they also fire more than one shot?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson.  There was a variety of weapons there, mostly uzzis and then also R1s, 762 calibre.

MR HATTINGH: Therefore a large number of shots were fired?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: And did you at a stage give a cease-fire signal?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, with the 11th or 12th shot I gave the signal to cease fire.  No fire came from the vehicle, and with that intensity in such a small concentrated area, I did not foresee that anybody could still be alive.

MR HATTINGH: Were any shots fired from inside the vehicle to you?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: No, Chairperson.

MR HATTINGH: And when you arrived at the vehicle, what did you find?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Chairperson, with the shooting, the windows, left front and left back bust on the inside.  Some of the shots were fired through the windows and some of them were concentrated on the doors in an area where you would expect to find passengers seated.  I cannot recall whether the back window or the rear window was shot out.  At one stage it looked as if all windows had been shattered.  And upon approaching the vehicle, the right back door fell open and a person fell out of the car.  She appeared to be a woman.  The woman still showed signs of life and it appeared that she was attempting to breath or to speak and I told Mr Ras to shoot her.

MR HATTINGH: Which he then did?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: Yes, Chairperson, he did so.

MR HATTINGH: Very well.  How many persons were seated in the vehicle?

EUGENE ALEXANDER DE KOCK: In the vehicle, left front, there was a black woman, left back against the door there was an Indian man and then in the middle or on the back seat next to the right door, there was also a black woman and all of them had been killed.

MR HATTINGH: What did you do after you investigated the car and found the people dead there?