Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-18

ADV POTGIETER: Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen.  Welcome to the continued hearing into the Chemical and Biological Warfare programme.  
 Before we proceed I think it's perhaps appropriate for me to just again put on record the names of the panel presiding, whereafter I will ask the legal representatives to do the same again.
 On my right, extreme right, is Dr Wendy Orr.  Next to me is Yasmin Sooka.  On my left is Dr Fazel Randera.  And I am Denzil Potgieter.  We are the presiding panel.   I am going to ask the legal representatives of the parties to place themselves on record.  Perhaps I should start with General Knobel's representative.

MR TOWEEL: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  I am C R Toweel from the Pretoria Bar, instructed by D P du Plessis Attorneys, acting on behalf of General Knobel.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.  And Mr du Plessis is assisting you.  Advocate Arendse.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Chair.  Norman Arendse, Cape Bar, for the Department of Foreign Affairs.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mr Arendse.  And then there is somebody standing in for Mr Currin.

MS REYNOLDS: ...(indistinct)

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mrs Reynolds.  For the Commission is Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: That's correct Mr Chair.  The name is Hanif Vally.  I am assisted by Mr Jerome Chaskalson, Miss Chandre Gould and Professor Peter Folb.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.  Those are the respective representatives of the parties.
 We have started hearing the testimony of General Knobel at the last session.  We will proceed this morning, I assume Mr Vally, to conclude the testimony of General Knobel.  Is that what you would like to happen?

MR VALLY: Yes Mr Chair.  We want to conclude the testimony of General Knobel.
 There are two items that we need to raise.  One is General Knobel has indicated that he wants to read a statement into the record.
 The second issue is the fact that Brigadier Basson and Dr Mijburgh's legal representatives are not present.  They have indicated to us, and there's correspondence exchanged, and I don't want to necessarily go into the correspondence, but the Commission may want to put something on record regarding the issue after they have had a chance of reading all the correspondence.  It is correspondence that has recently arrived, and at a suitable time the panel can have an opportunity to peruse the correspondence and respond thereto.  But they were aware that the hearings continue today with the evidence of General Knobel.

ADV POTGIETER: And Dr Basson and Dr Mijburgh, what is their position?  Are they present or not?

MR VALLY: Neither of them are present and ostensibly it is because their legal representatives are not present.  We are also told that Brigadier Basson is going to be engaged in the operating theatre in the next day or two ...(intervention)

ADV POTGIETER: Oh I see, I am sorry Mr Vally does that - does it appear from the correspondence that you referred to?

MR VALLY: Yes that's set out in correspondence as to what is happening in their regard.  The panel may wish to put something on record but I believe they should peruse the correspondence first.

ADV POTGIETER: Alright. So shall we then - let's stand down.  That issue - and perhaps we can get to General Knobel and get him sorted out.

MR VALLY: That's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Alright.

MR VALLY: There is an indication, I must put on record also, which you will see from the correspondence Mr Chair, the fact that Dr Mijburgh is willing to give evidence.  Thank you Mr Chair.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much Mr Vally.
 General before we continue welcome again.  I am going to administer the oath to you just to get the formalities out of the way and then we can get into your testimony.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: (sworn states)

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.  Please be seated General.  Mr Vally I think you were busy dealing with the testimony of General Knobel.  It's over to you.

MR VALLY: Yes Mr Chairperson, but General Knobel has indicated that he has prepared a written statement and he would like to read it into the record before we continue with the questioning of him.

ADV POTGIETER: Have you had regard to that?

MR VALLY: I have only had sight of it right now.  I haven't read it yet.

ADV POTGIETER: And Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Chairperson I have read the statement and we've discussed it and there's nothing in the statement itself.  He does refer to a number of annexures in respect to which we may have certain problems.  But as the statement itself reads there is nothing objectionable from our side.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mr Arendse.  Miss Reynolds do you want to say anything?  Not.  Thank you.  And I suppose Mr Toweel you are aware of that?

MR TOWEEL: I am aware of it, thank you Mr Chair.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.  Alright Mr Vally then it seems as if we can proceed by getting General Knobel to refer to his statement.  Right.  General then it's over to you.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Thank you Mr Chairman, but may I just point out that within the statement I am referring to a number of documents and the contents of documents that I have given to the TRC most of which was already given to the TRC about ten days ago but there are one or two additional documents that were added this morning, and I would certainly, if it was possible, be able to discuss some of the contents of the documents to substantiate what I say in my statement.
 And then I will add that I have tried also from my side to keep out of my statement anything that could be either of a proliferating nature or of a nature which could embarrass our international relations, but I would need some guidance at that point when I get to it and we want to discuss it I certainly would like to discuss it.
 Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes when we get to that stage I will hear Mr Arendse who is here specifically just to ensure that we don't breach anything on that side.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Right, thank you Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: But please go ahead General.