Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

WITNESS:   I want to be transparent.  We were murderers.  We didn't take any bribery.  If we said this is what we want we didn't want many organisations, we wanted only one organisation, because when the police were together with the A Team they would put them at the forefront so that they kill, and the police would never appear in court.  They were not the police, the A Team.  After murdering people they would never appear in court.  There would be nothing - nothing would be done.  Some of them are now lieutenants and adjutants.  I laid a charge while I was injured and I was taken to Gotso House, but even to this day nothing has been done.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you said you don't see clearly, and you said you sometimes feel mentally ill.

WITNESS:   Yes, sometimes I would be talking to you and I would just reply in a very manner that is not appealing.  When I was released from the state of emergency I went to Gotso House.  On my arrival there - when we were released it was me, Stompie Magashule, Makoetsi Siyagude.  They took us to Gotso House.  They wanted to check whether we have been injected with slow poison or not.  We waited for a long time because the doctor was not there.  Within a few minutes the police were there.  I said, "No, I am not going to wait here and be arrested.  Can we go back to Parys?  We have waited so much for the doctor but he doesn't pitch up.  Let's now go."

MRS GCABASHE: In other words you are telling us that you have never received any treatment.

WITNESS:   Yes. Can I ask this question?  Seeing that you have appeared before us what do you think the Commission can do for you?  Do you have any idea?   ---   I don't know what can be done, because I can say the Commission should find where they are and let them appear.  But as I am talking to you now they is still full of hatred.  One of them is so soft I can communicate with him perfectly well.  But what do I say to them about the problems or the conflicts that we had?

MRS GCABASHE: Do you have any wish about your eyes?  Do you want to be taken to the doctor or be treated?

WITNESS:   I think the doctor needs money.

MRS GCABASHE: So in other words you don't have any money to go to the doctor?

WITNESS:   No, I don't, because my mum is not working, my father has divorced with my mother.  What can I do?

MRS GCABASHE: You said your sister was in love with the A Team.

WITNESS:   No, she left them, she is now all right.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you very much.  As the Commission we have heard your story, and about your friends who suffered.  I will now take back to the bishop.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Mhlapo, you said that when you were detained you had to leave school because of the positions you held in school.  Could you explain to us what you mean by that?  What positions were these?

WITNESS:   When I was released I went back to school.  Mr Mkolosane, the headmaster - we only saw strange notice boards.  They were written in Afrikaans.  Those were funny rules of the state of emergency.  There were police at the gate.  And I went to see him in his office and he told me that, "You are now back.  Do you want to go back to gaol?  You have to remove yourself from the premises of this school."  I didn't object, I kept quiet and I left the school, because when I objected I would be detained because they knew me as being a poison around the school.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... question as well if I may.  You've told us about this person you met who was killed, Malulu Mbele, but could you - do you know when this happened, and could you give us a little bit more detail perhaps of what happened to him, who his family were, whether there was an inquest, things of that nature?  A little bit more detail if you know it.  If you don't know it that's okay, we'll try and find that information somewhere else.

WITNESS:   Malulu Mbele originated from Parys, just four streets from where I stay.  His parents are still in Parys, but they didn't appear before the Commission when Mr Piso(?) was in Parys.  He was so fond of our organisation.  Malulu Mbele was killed because he used to sing the slogan songs.  He was a very friendly person.  Musuge arrested him, and they slipped(?) him with their Chevrolet and they threw me behind a fence.  As you understand I was assaulted before I was arrested, and after being released I was assaulted.  Are you aware that I have been detained many a times here in South Africa?

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... that.  Could you just give us some idea of the date - the time when this happened?

WITNESS:   The one connected to Lefo Raseko happened in 1985.  I can't remember very well about Malulu Mbele, but it was in 1987.  Sikalego, after assaulting him, came home and he told my parents that if he can see me in court giving a statement I should know that I am going to die.  And I never went to court because I have been threatened.  In early saw the death the first time, and I didn't want to see it the second time.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... last question from me, and that is do you know whether there was ever a case or an inquest around the death of Malulu Mbele?

WITNESS:   There was a court case two times, but I couldn't go because of the promises that I would be killed.  It took place two times and it ended up nowhere.  It was only at the A Court level, it didn't go to the regional.

MR LAX: Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: Mr Mhlapo, I just want to ask one or two questions.  Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working.

DR MAGWAZA: Are you able to hold a job, because from what I have heard is that you are not well physically and mentally?  Are you not working because you are not well?

WITNESS:   I am not saying I am unemployed because of my state of health.  I had a problem.  Everywhere where you want to apply for a job you get checked.  They check you.  If I have a problem with my eyes - sometimes when I write I have to be very close to the writing material, I don't have to be far.  I have strength, I can work for myself, but I don't get enough check-up.

DR MAGWAZA: Just to follow up on that one, you said, "Sometimes I feel mentally ill."  If you could just clarify that.  What did you mean?

WITNESS:   Sometimes I feel pain in my nerves.  If a person comes running after me I would just fall, not knowing the reason why.  I think these electric shocks affected me a lot. Okay, with all the type of problems, your health problems, how would you like the Commission to help you to ease your situation?   ---   I want to go to the treatment.  Maybe that's the help that the Commission can give me.  I am not saying I can be taken to the treatment, but if there is anything that can be done I welcome that stand.  But I want to know from the people who attacked me the reasons why they attacked me, why did they kill my friends?

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mhlapo.  We have listened to your requests, and as a Commission we will try and see where can we help you.  Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Chairperson, I call Dumisani Phungula.  (Pause)  Could we make sure that the headphones are in place please?  Mr Phungula, can you hear me all right?

DUMISANI PHUNGULA AND MRS PHUNGULA: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Oh fine.  A very warm welcome to you.  Thank you for coming and sharing your story with us.  Can I just ask who the lady is that is sitting with you?

DUMISANI PHUNGULA AND MRS PHUNGULA: It's my mother.  It's Mrs Phungula.