Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to swear Notayiti and ask her to stand.

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: (Sworn duly states).

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you madam, and we thank you that you have availed yourself before this Commission to come and give us your story about Melvin Mkwenkwe Ndotshayisa.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon, and welcome. You have waited some time to come up to the stage and tell your story to us and we are grateful for your patience.
 Now, your evidence like most of the stories that we are hearing here today takes us back to 1985, which was a time of extensive strife and conflict in Uitenhage and in fact your story concerns your late husband who was killed on the 24th September 1985. Now, before we get to that, perhaps you can tell us very briefly about yourself, who you are, where do you live before we get to the story about your husband.

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: In 1985 we were sleeping with my husband and it was at night, his name was Nkwenkwe Ndotshayisa and at about 2.00am there was a knock at the door. It was policemen, black policemen. My husband stood up and opened the door. He took a glass lamp and set it alight and the policemen asked "Where were the boys", my husband said, "I don't have boys here in this house, I only have girls". Then the policemen asked him "Where are those girls". My husband said there were no boys in that home, then he took this lamp and went into the girls bedroom and there was one of my daughters by the name of Norita and this policemen beat Norita and my husband asked why they were beating our daughter.
 Then the police beat my husband and shot him in the leg and he fell down and I screamed and asked them why did they shoot him. They pointed the gun at me an I ran out of the house.
 I heard a loud shot as I was going out of the house and I was running at the time, then the policemen came out and I was hiding somewhere and when I saw that they had gone out of the house, I went back and I found my husband lying down on the floor. The intestines were exposed, then these policemen went to call the white policemen. 
 I then saw these white policemen coming into the house. There were many of them, round about seven in number. 
 They asked from those who were there, they asked why did you kill an elderly person. I don't know what answer they gave. Then an ambulance was called by the very policemen and whilst the others were waiting in the house with me, but the ambulance came when my husband had already died and he was taken away.
 I think I am through with my evidence.

UNKNOWN: It's clearly a very painful memory that you have got and we appreciate your sharing that with the Commission. I know it is very hard for you to tell the story and give your evidence, but I just want to, and I don't want to prolong it unnecessary. I just want to ask you one or two things. Just to try to get some clarity and try and get some information that will help the Commission in trying to see what we can do about this incident.
 The police that came into the house the first time, before the shooting happened, did you know any one of them?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: No. I didn't know them.

UNKNOWN: In your statement you say that they were the policemen known as "Ama-Tshaka". The Municipal Policemen. Is that correct?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, it was like that but I am trying to say that I don't know them by name. I just know that they were a group of policemen called Ama-Tshaka.

UNKNOWN: I understand that. Thank you. I gathered from what you said you have daughters, you have got children, but they are daughters, not sons, is that correct?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, it is like that. My son is very young, he is still suckling, otherwise I have girls only.

UNKNOWN: In all, how many have you got?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: I have got five children.

UNKNOWN: The son, you say is the youngest, is that correct?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes. I think he is about 18 years old now. He was born in 1978.

UNKNOWN: And the eldest one of the five. How old is that one, I assume that is a daughter?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: She was born in 1962.

UNKNOWN: Your husband, when he was killed, was employed I take it?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, he was employed.

UNKNOWN: Was he the only one in the family that was working and a living?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Even our daughter Norita was working at the time.

UNKNOWN: And yourself?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: No, I wasn't working.

UNKNOWN: Since the death of your husband in 1985, have you been raising the children on your own?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, I have brought them up all by myself.

UNKNOWN: In the statement that you gave to us, you said that there was an inquest and it was found that nobody was to blame for the killing of your husband. Is that correct?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, it is like that.

UNKNOWN: Where was that inquest held?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: By a lawyer named Majodina here in Port Elizabeth.

UNKNOWN: In Port Elizabeth, was the case also heard in Port Elizabeth?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: What was the reason given by the police for having shot your husband. What reason did they give to the court?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: They did not state any reason. What they said is that, they said those policemen who had killed him were discharged, because many of the policemen had been dying after all.

UNKNOWN: The Attorney, Mr Majodina, has he instituted any claims against the police for the killing of your husband?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, there are some claims.

UNKNOWN: Do you know what happened to those claims?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes, I know.

UNKNOWN: What eventually happened to it?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Majodina said it was not the end of the case and it went on until I a sum of R8000 which I did receive.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything that you want to ask, in particular, that the Commission should look into for you or give attention to?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: Yes. I have a request. There is my last born who is still going to school and I it is very tough for me to pay his school fees. If I could get assistance towards his education, I would be delighted.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything else that you wish to add before I hand back to the Chairperson or is that all that you want to tell us?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: I've got nothing more to say, I've got no other requests.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much for your evidence. I will hand you back to the Chairperson now. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Are there any questions?
 Pumla Madikizela-Gobodo.

MR GOBODO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
 Sisi, it's long that we have been getting reports of this nature, but every time we hear a report it seems to us what I would like to be clear about is that at the time your husband stood up to go and show the policemen the girls bedroom, what did these policemen say, what was the reason they stated for getting to the bedroom of the girls?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: They said they were looking for boys and my husband said we do not have boys in this family. We only have girls. They then said, "Were are those girls", so that is what made my husband to lead them there to the girls bedroom, just to show evidence.

MR GOBODO: Now, why then were these girls beaten, according to what we heard. There was just no reason whatsoever, they just did it out of malice. One other thing that I noticed from your information is that, when they asked, when these white policemen asked "Why was your husband, an elderly person shot" - now this makes me think that these policemen had orders that they should kill the young boys - could you tell us more about what you know about what I am saying?

NOTAYITI MAVIS NDOTSHAYISA: No. I have got nothing to say.