Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

ARCHIE KHUMALO: No, except to tell the Committee that I cannot forgive these men.

MS CAMBANIS: That is all, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Has anybody got any questions?  Wynand?

MR MALAN: Yes thank you.  Mr Chair, if you'll allow me, just a question to Mrs Cambanis before Mrs Siako gives evidence?
Do you have any knowledge whether any of these witnesses that have applied or made statements to the Human Rights Violations Committee?

MS CAMBANIS: I haven't taken specific instructions but I will do so.  I doubt that they have.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Seako, what language would you prefer to use?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: (sworn states)

MS CAMBANIS: Mrs Seako, your statement has been prepared, signed by you under oath and submitted disclosing details sufficient for the purposes of reparation.  It is correct that your family member, the late Ms Fani, was killed in the bomb blast that took place in Bree Street.
Is that correct?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: That is correct.

MS CAMBANIS: And Mrs Seako, there was certain views that you have regarding the applications for amnesty, why you are opposing the applications.  Would you please tell the Committee what those are?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes I can.  One thing that makes me not so forgiving is that in whatever they have said so far there is no truth.  Thokosile, the one who died, caused her mother's death as well and General Hospital lost - she was a radiographer.
	Secondly, they planted this bomb deliberately with hatred because they hate a black person.  The truth is that I would love to see the person who actually planted the bomb there and the reason that made him to hate people like this, to hate blacks and claim the land to be theirs as AWB members.  Why would they fight like the Russians?
	Thirdly, what made them go to the hotel and ask them if they were open and whatever hatred they have even when two kids told him that "Mr, that car that you've parked outside there, it's burning"  - he answered them and said to them "that car is not burning but there's a bomb inside that car" and these kids have no one who can come here to talk on behalf of them because they were street kids.  At least some, we are here, to represent them but those kids were street kids, they died there and no one is here to speak on their behalf.  
	I lost my job.  Those kids were suffering and these kids asked them, in fact they were trying to help them.  They said "your car was burning" and he actually answered them back and said "it's not burning, but there's a bomb inside."  You ask yourself if such a person has a conscience.  You don't even know why those street kids are on the street.  They are not belonging in any party with the ANC or whatsoever.  I would ask for forgiveness from the Lord because I don't have forgiveness to give to these people because I still feel for those kids who died on those streets and they were not buried decently because they were street kids.

MS CAMBANIS: Mrs Seako, is it correct that you attended a large part of the criminal proceedings against these applicants?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes I was attending, it's true.

MS CAMBANIS: And what - how did you find the attitude of the applicants at that trial?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: They were feeling happy, they didn't show any remorse and it was like a joke to them.  I remember the first day I wanted to pray before the court.  They asked to pray before the court proceedings and I was amazed that people like them, people with no conscience, know how to pray.  We were a joke in the court.  I remember one nice gentleman.   He was tall and if I'm not mistaken, that guy his name is Koekemoer and I think that guy had a bit of a conscience.  The rest were very cold and they were very happy, they were laughing at us.  I remember one day I sat in one chair, I think the third or the second chair behind the magistrate.  They kicked me out, they said they didn't want to sit next to me until one policeman said "this is a court, it's not belonging to the AWB."  Even that made me feel that these people show no remorse and they are so cold.

MS CAMBANIS: And Mrs Seako, during the proceedings before this Committee was it your experience that they had a similar attitude?

MR PRINSLOO: With respect, Mr Chairman, it's a leading question she's putting the answer in front of the witness.

MS CAMBANIS: Well, I at the time raised it, I place it on record that I had instructions from clients about attitude in this hall and that is why I put it that way.

CHAIRPERSON: Well let's put it this way.
	Mrs Seako, do you think their attitude has changed since?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Some of them according to my view have changed except the ones who are here, who are testifying here, I don't see any change.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you Mrs Seako, is there anything finally that you would like to say to the Committee?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I would like to add that these men who are here they planned to bomb and whatever they are saying here it's not true.  The driver of the house was kicked out from the Shell House where he wanted to bomb and then he left there and he wasn't alone, there were two cars, one was escorting.  After you left the hotel you went to another car.  After you left the car with the bomb so there were two cars.  Shell House is the place where ANC people are.  You realised that you're failing to bomb Shell House and then you decided to bomb Bree Street and you've bombed or you had too many bombs in so many areas.  One lady came from Supreme Court and she told people that there was a bomb at Sanlam Building and this lady was looking for policemen to tell them.  Her name is Anna and Anna couldn't reach to any policemen but we showed her soldiers because we've already kicked policemen out of that area because we were suspecting that policemen were working with the AWB so that's why we kicked policemen.  We didn't want policemen to guard that area.  We realised that policemen themselves were stealing stocks from shops that's why I couldn't leave my shop, I was sleeping there.  I lost some of my stock and some was still there.   There were bombs in that area on that night.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis, how relevant is all this?  Is it relevant?

MS CAMBANIS: No, your worship, it's not.

ADV GCABASHE: I would like to ask one thing.  You're talking about the police.  You had a shop in Bree Street, were you there on that Sunday when the bomb exploded?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I came there.  My telephone numbers are kept by prostitutes, white prostitutes so whenever there's something near the shop they call me.  They called me on that specific day so I came down.

ADV GCABASHE: They called you?  When?  When exactly?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Immediately after the bomb exploded.

ADV GCABASHE: That's why I'm asking whether you were there when the bomb exploded?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: No, I wasn't there, I was called.

ADV GCABASHE: When you arrived there what time was it?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: We were not allowed to enter the place when I came there.  I went to Freda's shop first and I cleaned the place because Freda had died.  I cleaned her blood.  After I finished cleaning Freda's blood I went to my shop where I'm working, that's where I also discovered that Thokozile who was on her way to church.  Thokozile is my cousin, she was on her way to a Methodist Church.  She died on her way but when I arrived there she was no longer there, her body had been removed.  I went to the shop, I asked Yvonne the owner of the shop where the one that I was using and I also asked the prostitutes as to what happened so they explained to me.  I couldn't go back because my stock was already outside.  The shop had been damaged.  I slept there.