Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-06

MR NTSEBEZA: (?)   Was it - I'm not sure, the Zulu seems to suggest other than what he said.  I don't want to put words in his mouth.  The English translation said he was shot in the foot.  I don't think that is what the witness was saying.  Can the witness say and will the interpreters take note of what he's saying?

WITNESS:   I said the whole right foot, the foot, the leg and the arm, I mean, the whole right foot.  I mean the leg and the foot.

MR NTSEBEZA: /

MR NTSEBEZA: MR MACADAM

MR NTSEBEZA: 1B

MR MACADAM: Now if you can continue from that point on and in detail ... [break in recording] ... what transpired next?

YASMINE SOOKA: (?)   We are not satisfied with that response.  Where exactly was the witness shot?

MR MACADAM: Possibly to assist us, can you indicate to us now, can you stand up and point to your body where you received these injuries?   Sorry, there is no need to undress.  Just show us by pointing to your leg and your arm and whatever.

WITNESS:   All over the leg, my thigh and my hand.

MR MACADAM: Thank you, Mr Dlamini.  Possibly the record will reflect that the witness raised his trouser reflecting a severe scarred area on the actual front shins of his leg and then he proceeded to point to the thighs above his knees and he also pointed to arm area on the right-hand side of his body.  Right, if you can proceed.  You said you found yourself in hospital.  What happened while you were in hospital?

WITNESS:   I woke up and people came ... (inaudible) ... M Z Khumalo and others whom I have forgotten.  They asked me as to how I got injured.  Because I was unconscious I couldn't speak to them.  They said they will get a special doctor for me.  The doctor came.  However, I don't remember his name, I don't know his name.  This is the person who treated me until I was discharged.

MR MACADAM: You said you were unconscious at this stage, so how were you able to know that these people visited you and said they would get the special doctor for you?

WITNESS:   There came others some time to see me, that's why I managed to talk to them and they asked me as to how I was

MR MACADAM: /injured

MR MACADAM: 1B injured and I told them I was involved in a shoot-out with the soldiers and then they decided to get me a doctor and I was guarded by a police during that time.

MR MACADAM: Who were these police who were guarding?

WITNESS:   There was the SAP.

MR MACADAM: Why were they guarding you?

WITNESS:   I didn't find the real reason because I didn't ask them.

MR MACADAM: And how did it come about that you left that hospital?

WITNESS:   When I was feeling better, the people who came to fetch me it was Madlanduna and Jabulani Makhatini.  They were driving a KwaZulu police car.  I don't remember the time at which I was discharged.  I don't know whether the police who were guarding me knew that I was being stolen out of the hospital.  I was taken into a car and drove - which drove back, drove me back to my home.

MR MACADAM: You said that the police didn't - you're not sure whether the police know you were being stolen out of the hospital.  Can you explain exactly the circumstances under which you left that hospital?

WITNESS:   It's now(?) that I find out that I have been stolen out of the hospital.  They came, took me out and put me into a car and then we left.

MR MACADAM: Were the police who you said were guarding you still present at your bed in the hospital, or not?

WITNESS:   In the morning they were there.  At about 2 o'clock they were not there.  That was the time where I was fetched.

MR MACADAM: Tell us more detail about these police that were guarding you.  Were they there all the time or would they just pop in and spend an hour or two there and leave or what - what exactly was the position with them?

MR MACADAM: /They

MR MACADAM: 1B They used to stay there during the day and the night.  However on that particular day, I think they had to relieve each other 2 o'clock and I left during that interval.  However, they used to guard me day and night.

MR MACADAM: You've so far described them as police.  Can you tell us whether they were South African Police or KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   They were SAP.

MR MACADAM: And just to wrap up one aspect, the area where you were shot by the SADF, you said that was in the Maritzburg area.  Can you recall the specific part of Pietermaritzburg which it was?

WITNESS:   It was as ... (intervention)

INTERPRETER: I'm sorry, I didn't get the name?

WITNESS:   It was called ... (inaudible).

MR MACADAM: Which suburb of Maritzburg is this close to?

WITNESS:   Edendale.

MR MACADAM: You can proceed.  You said you were taken from the hospital to your home.  Where did you go after that?

WITNESS:  I stayed at home for about a week and M Z Khumalo came to my home.  He took me to Ulundi.  That's where I stayed and I was told while in Ulundi that the police are looking for me because of my involvement in the shoot-out with the soldiers and I was taken from Ulundi and they took me to a place called Venda for a hiding - to hide.

MR MACADAM: Right.  Firstly, who told you that the police were looking for you?

WITNESS:   M Z Khumalo.

MR MACADAM: And who took you to Venda?

WITNESS:   M Z Khumalo.

MR MACADAM: Where in Venda did you go to specifically?

WITNESS:   (Inaudible) ... at a place called - I don't remember the name, I have forgotten the name.  It's in Venda.  It's a base with many houses like a soldiers' base.

MR MACADAM: /And

MR MACADAM: 1B And what happened there?

WITNESS:   I stayed there for about two weeks.  There was a doctor who was attending me.  I stayed there for two weeks and they removed me to another place called Mkuze and I stayed there.

MR MACADAM: And who took you to Mkuze?

WITNESS:   It was Captain Langeni.  He was one of the person who was in charge of the KwaZulu Police.

MR MACADAM: And thereafter, what happened?

WITNESS:   I stayed in Mkuze until I recovered.

MR MACADAM: And then?

WITNESS:   As the police were still looking for me, I left the place during the nineties and I was to be sent to Koeberg to be trained as a special constable.  I came back and back to Ulundi and they deployed me back to Mpumalanga, in Hammarsdale which is in Mpumalanga.

MR MACADAM: Who sent you to receive this training as a special constable?

WITNESS:   It was Mr Langeni working together with Mr Madlanduna.

MR MACADAM: And where did you receive the training as a special constable?

WITNESS:   In Cape Town and a place called Koeberg.

MR MACADAM: And in which police force did you become a special constable?  The KwaZulu Police or the South African Police?

WITNESS:   I was trained by the SAP.  However when I came back I joined the KwaZulu Police.

MR MACADAM: And at the stages you were dealing with Captain Langeni, did you ever inform him that you were wanted by the police?

WITNESS:   I think he knew, because he was always in contact with Madlanduna and Khumalo, so I didn't ask him.

MR MACADAM: And you said you then became a member of the KwaZulu Police and you had reported to Ulundi.  Did you get posted

MR MACADAM: /to

MR MACADAM: 1B to any police station after that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I went to work at Hammarsdale and I there Madlanduna.  I worked as a special constable in Hammarsdale.  There was some fighting at a place called KwaNjokogase(?) and people were being attacked and they were running away from that place running to Hammarsdale Township, there Madlanduna asked me to assist, because our people were getting killed.

MR MACADAM: What assistance did you - did you provide any assistance?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did give help to the people who were being killed or attacked.  I met one young man by the name of Kay.  I organised with him to go and attack people at KwaNjokogase.

MR MACADAM: And thereafter what happened?