Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-12

MR STRYDOM: At that stage, were you a member of the IFP or not?

MR TSHABANGU: I was not an IFP member at the time.  I became an IFP member after I went to live at KwaMadala hostel.

MR STRYDOM: Why did you go to KwaMadala hostel?

MR TSHABANGU: It was the only hiding place I could stay.  There wasn't any place I could go to be protected.
	I could see that if I was to go and stay at any township in Vaal, whether with relatives, I could be killed at any time.
	There were people whom I knew who were close to me, I was requested to go and stay with them because I was running away from being killed or burnt by the comrades.

MR STRYDOM: You gave me a photograph which shows or depicts names on a wall.  Can you just give the Committee more information about what is written on the wall and where did you get this photograph from?

MR TSHABANGU: It is written Nana and Getisu, wanted dead or alive.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know where that picture was taken?

MR TSHABANGU: It was taken in the house of Buthelezi in Boipatong, Matolo Street.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know if that was written on the wall before the Boipatong massacre or thereafter?

MR TSHABANGU: It was before the Boipatong massacre.  I also wish to add that it wasn't only, this was not only written in Boipatong, it was written in Sharpville and also Sebokeng.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, there was an agreement between the parties before this party started, that any documents which were going to be used by the parties, would be circulated beforehand.  We have not received copies of that photograph.

CHAIRPERSON: It is coming to you now.

MR STRYDOM: I want you to continue from the time you went to stay in KwaMadala hostel.

MR TSHABANGU: I stayed in KwaMadala hostel, we were locked in a kraal.  We are children who grew up in a township.  We are not used to live under such conditions.  I will say each and every person who stayed at KwaMadala didn't like to live under such conditions.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the status of this photograph?

MR STRYDOM: I can just mention that I only received that photograph today, that is the reason why I didn't make copies.  The status of the photograph, it was handed over by the person who took the photograph, to this witness.  He did not take the photograph, but he says that he was aware of his name that were written all over the townships, but if need be, I will investigate who the photographer is and try to get hold of him to testify, if it is disputed that that photograph was taken by or in Boipatong.
	I would ask the photograph to be handed in as an Exhibit.  The next number is N, Exhibit N.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any objection to this photograph being handed in?

MR BERGER: I have no instructions Chairperson, on the status of this photograph.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the last Exhibit.

MR STRYDOM: The last Exhibit was M, so I will ask this photograph to be handed in as Exhibit N.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR STRYDOM: At the stage you moved into KwaMadala hostel, what happened to your parents, did they stay behind in Boipatong or not?

MR TSHABANGU: Before I can answer that question, I would like to state that where it is written Nana and Getisu, wanted dead or alive, these writings still exist.
	My parents took me with them after my dad was caught coming from work in Iscor and he was burnt.  Even today, he cannot do anything, he can't work to support my brothers, he is permanently paralysed.  Therefore the duty of supporting or bringing up the children and my mother who has diabetes, it is within my hands.  As I am sitting here today, I don't have a home because our house was burnt down at Boipatong.

MR STRYDOM: After your parents' house was burnt down at Boipatong, where did they move to?

MR TSHABANGU: We went to hire a place at Vereeniging in one house.   After four months or five, we were forced to leave because we didn't have money to pay rent to the white owner.  So we had to move to KwaMadala hostel.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know who was responsible for the burning of your father?

MR TSHABANGU: I knew it very well as to who burnt my father.  I once met them and talked to them, they also admitted that they burnt him.

MR STRYDOM: Who were they?  The question is these people who admitted to you that they had burnt your father, who are they?

MR TSHABANGU: It is Nunuza who is now a member of the SANDF, Maboni from Malibogo in Boipatong, Makit.

MR STRYDOM: As far as your knowledge goes, these people that you have mentioned, did they belong to any political organisation?

MR TSHABANGU: They are members of the African National Congress.

MR STRYDOM: Whilst you were staying in Boipatong, was there a group ...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr, I am sorry, you have just given the names of Nunuza, Maboni and Malibogo and the last one was, the last person?

MR TSHABANGU: Chairperson, I would like to rectify.  I said Maboni staying at Malibogo Street at Boipatong and Nunuza and Makit.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know how to spell the name of Makit?

MR TSHABANGU: Makit.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the addresses of these people?

MR TSHABANGU: I don't know the house numbers, however I know that Maboni stays together with Makit.  Nunuza was staying, I last knew him staying at the place that I mentioned earlier, (indistinct), that is the place mentioned.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where he works?

MR TSHABANGU: In 1997, the last time I saw him he was a member of the SANDF, I don't know now.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, it seems to me that in terms of Section 30 of the Act, these individuals who have been mentioned by Mr Tshabangu, have been implicated in a manner which may be detrimental to them and that they should receive the appropriate notice in terms of that Section.  Thank you.

ADV PRIOR: I will see that it is attended to Mr Chairman.

MR STRYDOM: After you moved into KwaMadala Hostel, did you continue to experience problems?

MR TSHABANGU: Yes, problems continued and they intensified.  There is a lot I can say, it could be a long letter if I had to write everything down.  I was enclosed in a kraal together with the people who were inmates of the hostel, we couldn't go wherever we wanted to go at a time when we wanted to go out.
	We couldn't even go to church or to go to a funeral of a close friend, or visiting a friend, even going to town or to a clinic or to a hospital.  We were not able to go out.  If you had to go out, you were placing your life in danger.

MR STRYDOM: Did you complain to anybody in the hostel about your situation?

MR TSHABANGU: During those days, I did not specifically go to a certain person to complain about the conditions.  All the people could see or it was clear to everyone that we are having a problem, until we explained to Mr Mkhize in the stadium that we are now tired, that we are killed one by one, he should give us permission to go and fight and defend ourselves.
	That was the only time one person complained.

MR STRYDOM: During the evidence of the previous applicant I mentioned certain names to him, I referred him to a certain newspaper clipping.  I don't want to repeat each and every incident, but do you confirm those incidents and your knowledge that you know about it?