Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-28

WITNESS:   Yes, we had our conversation, and he just got out of the car without telling me anything or answering me, and two men approached us.  The other one was from KwaMashu.  He clapped me, and I was surprised as to why he had to clap me because I was so old.  I am just an elderly, frail man.  He knew me as a friend, but now that he had joined the Inkatha group he had now to impress Gatsha Buthelezi.  He appeared in the World Trade Centre.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's talk about that particular incident now.  You wanted to say Gatsha Buthelezi.

WITNESS:   No, I feel I am quite correct to refer to him in that name, because he has been into so many groups.  He would get into a certain group and go out, so he has always been in and out of certain organisations.

MRS GCABASHE: You said two men approached you.  Do you remember both of them?

WITNESS:   That is correct, but I don't remember their names.  I know them facially.  I know the other one because he is a member of the Council in KwaMashu.  He also has a business in KwaMashu.  I can't remember his name.  Now they started assaulting you, and what happened thereafter?   ---   After I had been assaulted I decided to go back home.  They never followed me.  That is where it ended.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you further pointed out that after this assault you were harassed by the KFC.  Just give us a brief explanation as to how they harassed you.

WITNESS:   On this particular day I was heading for my cinema, and when I got there I found them tearing down the projection equipment.  And when I got in there to ask as to what was taking place I was told that this was done by a court order, that I had to be ejected from the cinema, but I did not know what culminated to that because I knew that I was leasing the place, and now that people should come and tear the place down.  I was not even called to be notified that I was going to be ejected.  It was just an order purported to be made by a Judge that I should be ejected.  They were taking the contents of the cinema, as well as certain machinery and projectors.  They were being thrown outside of the cinema because they wanted to stay there because the order of the court, or the purported order, said I should be evicted.  I think this led to this disagreement.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, what about the equipment?  What was the cost of the equipment?

WITNESS:   It was in the region of R80 000,00. Mr Mlaba has the full details, as well as the cost of the equipment that was destroyed at that particular time.  I don't know whether you would be interested for me to call Mr Mlaba to give those details.

MRS GCABASHE: No, we can contact Mr Mlaba.  You also pointed out that they said if you paid the rent that would be sufficient for you to be given the place, or ownership of the cinema.

WITNESS:   But there's absolutely nothing I got from the whole deal.  This is what I am fighting for, because I want to get back my money.  Because I was also ejected from that place, because I was actually leasing the place out whenever they were stage plays, functions, as well as memorial services.  This cinema was a service to the community.  I was helping the community.  Now the community has got to go to Durban to watch films or to use the cinema, whereas I had a cinema in Umlazi.

MRS GCABASHE: In all that you have said I can gather that you were harassed, that is from Krugersdorp up to here.  You have been continually harassed up until such that you lost your son.  Now, if I may ask how was your family affected by the whole incident?

WITNESS:   I don't think I do have any sort of - my son is also confirming that h's quite well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with him, and there's also nothing wrong with me except for the ... (incomplete)

MRS GCABASHE: We thank you very much when you feel quite unharmed. Do you have any expectations as you have come before this Commission.  What expectations do you have?  If we have to report to the State President and give some recommendations what would you like us to say to him?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have a request, because I was evicted unlawfully at that time because I was not given any notice that I was going to be evicted, and the reason that they put, that the roof was leaking and it was going to call on the people and injure them.  I want this matter to be taken further, and I would like to make a claim that I want all the equipment that I lost, or the equivalent thereof to be paid.

MRS GCABASHE: Is that all that you want the Commission to do for you?  Are these your only expectations?

WITNESS:   I think that's with regard to KFC.  I am quite satisfied if they could pay me back all that I have lost.  I would like to be reimbursed.  Now it reminds me that KFC should rebuild the cinema.  If he does not do that he should reimburse me the money that I was paying, which they said was an instalment towards buying the building itself, as well as my losses.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, is this building still under KFC?

WITNESS:   That is correct, it's still under KFC's control.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you very much, Mr Dlamini, as well as your son.  We thank you very much for having taken your time to come and appear here.  Are you getting any pension?

WITNESS:  Yes, I am getting pension money.

MRS GCABASHE: We thank you very much.  We shall hand over to the Chairman.

MRS GCABASHE: Mr Dlamini, we are running out of time, but we want to set the record straight.  In your statement you said two sons - you lost two sons, but what is not clear is that you are not talking about your other son.  The only son you are talking about is Jacob Dlamini, who was killed, but you do not talk about the other son.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  I did not mention him, but he was killed in Gauteng.  The Special Branch heard that the son of Dlamini, that is my son, had gone to wherever - I don't know where he went to, but he was killed.  When we went to bury my son in Gauteng the place was filled with police.  They were milling around, and they told me that I must be only an hour at the cemetery.  They actually restricted us as to time, and they accompanied us to the cemetery because they heard that it was my son who was being buried, because I was a freedom fighter.

MRS GCABASHE: Was he killed by the Security Police in Gauteng?

WITNESS:   That is correct.  The Security Police were involved.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, don't you think that you should also talk about your son in your statement?

WITNESS:   I think that is correct.

MRS GCABASHE: Or maybe you don't want the Security Police to be brought to book.

WITNESS:   I think that's quite a wonderful idea that he should also be mentioned.

MRS GCABASHE: So you must go back to the office to give a statement with regard to the other son ... (inaudible - end of side A) ... to that.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  Which offices should I go back to?

MRS GCABASHE: Our offices, the TRC offices.  If you could just give us his name.

WITNESS:   His name is Petros Bongani Dlamini.

MRS GCABASHE: My last question, Mr Dlamini.  You said that the closure of your cinema robbed the Umlazi community of their right to have amenities.  Now are you still prepared to continue with the cinema business as you said you wished the cinema to be rebuilt?   If it could be rebuilt could you go back and operate it?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct, because even now I still do order occasional films that I show around the schools, for instance Julius Caesar, or the set book films.  I do take them to play them in different schools so that they can be assisted in their end-of-the-year exams.  I still do that, but I don't have a cinema any more.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... Mr Dlamini.  You heard Mr Gasa this morning.  He stated that the attack on the cinema where 15 people were killed was led by Mr Sabelo.  Is that your recollection as well?

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)