Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairperson, at that stage I saw it, at the game farm that they placed me in command of the patrols and of certain operations that might take place.  When I was appointed in that position I did not know exactly what those operations would entail.  I thought that I would be used in liaising with the Defence Force or that it could include war deeds.

MR BRACHER: When you were appointed Commandant of Operations that was to oversee the patrols?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Originally yes.

MR BRACHER: Now when you spoke on Sunday 24th April, this is paragraph 24, there was a meeting and the question of throwing of pipe bombs were discussed - the meeting where they said it should be taxi ranks?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct yes?

MR BRACHER: And when you went out to the meeting of the members - in the next paragraph - were they told to throw bombs at taxi ranks?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: When I left there the meeting where I addressed the other people and got them to form groups to go and throw pipe bombs, yes that is correct.

MR BRACHER: Was that an instruction given to people - throw them at taxi ranks?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes, that was an order that was given to them.

MR BRACHER: That's an order they had to obey?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes.

MR BRACHER: Look at the next page - I think you're already there - "they had to choose their own pipe bombs, the groups were sent to different towns where they had to find their own targets."  Now how does that agree with what you've just said?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairperson, I came from the Free State and I did not know where the taxi ranks were, I did not even know where most of the towns in the PWV area was and when I told the people to go and throw these pipe bombs at the taxi ranks I asked them what towns they know well and they could specify or choose to which town they want to go and some of them or most them could choose the groups in which they wanted to go.

MR BRACHER: I understand all that but look at the next bit -after you've chosen the dorp where they have to choose their own target - how does that agree with what you have said because they were told to choose taxi ranks.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: There could be a few taxi ranks in some of the larger towns - they could choose which one they wanted to attack.

MR BRACHER: They must choose their own taxi ranks?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I could not exactly tell him to go to that taxi rank on the corner of that and that - I could not say that pertinently which target to choose.

MR BRACHER: Now if you look on the next page it says three of the pipe bomb missions were a success - now the Pretoria one wasn't at a taxi rank - why was that a success if they disobeyed an order?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I do not know, Mr Chairperson, I do not know why they did not listen to this instruction - the bomb did explode though.

MR BRACHER: But it wasn't a success because they were told to bomb taxi ranks?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I would say that it was a success because the bomb did explode.

MR BRACHER: As long as the bomb went off you didn't mind where?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is true yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Where did the bomb explode, Mr Du Plessis, in Pretoria?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The Pretoria bomb, if I can remember correctly, I think it was a beer hall, Timbaraba's Town close to Pretoria.

MR BRACHER: Go back to paragraph 24 - you had a meeting with a General, a Brigadier, a Commandant, a Major, you yourself as a commandant, the question about the throwing of pipe bombs was discussed.  Now we are now on Sunday night the 24th April 1994, there's no discussion about car bombs, not so?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BRACHER: Can I just ask you something that occurs to me, in order to be acquitted in the criminal case, I presume you lied?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: In the criminal court, I did lie yes, that is correct.

MR BRACHER: You originally made a confession and then you withdrew it didn't you?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I did not make a statement, no.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you make a written admittance?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, not at all, I did give evidence yes.

MR BRACHER: Now - Bree Street bombing - all you knew about that bombing was what you saw on television?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The Sunday evening yes.

MR BRACHER: That's the same night when you had meetings to discuss pipe bombs?  None of your Generals said "well we've got bombing squads out there already with vehicle bombs, car bombs, nobody said that to you?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, nothing.

MR BRACHER: Nobody afterwards said "three cheers we've had a success with the car bomb" the state has begun?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Despite the fact you'd gathered after that as well, didn't you, after the bomb had gone off?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Which bomb?

MR BRACHER: The Bree Street bomb.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: A meeting after the bomb?

MR BRACHER: That was in that - when you were watching TV there was a whole group of AWB people watching, 70 of them probably.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I do not think everybody, but I think there was quite a few who watched the T.V.

MR BRACHER: There were many AWB people and nobody says "our bomb has succeeded" or "great guys we've got in Koesterfontein" nothing like that?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, nothing.

MR BRACHER: No General comes and announces the successful beginning of operations?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Now move on to paragraph 27 because you've got seven lines about a most significant event and I want details.  That first sentence says that Barnard, Le Roux, Koekemoer, built the bomb at Koesterfontein on the Sunday night.  Were you there at the time?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Now why do you say that in your submission then?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The next day, the morning, when we went to Germiston I found that out.  Myself and Jan de Wet arrived at Koesterfontein and there we found Etienne Le Roux, Koekemoer and Cliff Barnard.  Cliff Barnard told me that the bomb will go to Germiston, that it is a bomb and that it's going to Germiston and that I must drive with Etienne le Roux.

MR BRACHER: When did you arrive there, with whom?  Did you come with de Wet and Vlok?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, I arrived there with De Wet, coming from the game farm.

MR BRACHER: When the two of you were driving there, did you know that you were going on a bombing mission?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I did not know that I'm going on a bomb expedition, no.

MR BRACHER: So the first time you heard was from Barnard?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes.

MR BRACHER: When you got to the farm was it already - was the bomb complete and covered in sand already or did you help?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Some of the people were busy there to use spades and to throw soil on top of it.  Not long afterwards they closed it up and the trailer was hooked onto Jan de Wet's vehicle, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you think that you were taken on that mission in order to lock you in so that you could do further bombings because once you've been part of one crime it's in for a penny in for a pound as they say?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That's correct Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Now that is not consistent with AWB conduct as you've explained it today.  You didn't have to be locked in, you told us that if the AWB gave you an order, you'd perform it, you didn't have to be locked in to anything.  You were being locked into a splinter group weren't you?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Chairperson, it was not a splinter group.

MR BRACHER: Why did you have to get locked in then when you already have the best obeyer of orders I have ever heard?