Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, during the evidence of Mr Derby-Lewis it was indicated to the Committee that I propose to hand in certain documents that pertain to claims submitted by Mr Derby-Lewis during his term of office of the President's Council.  Mr Chairman, document EXHIBIT AG which was the programme was already handed in and I have now prepared the documents pertaining to the claim which consists of the document AG, just for the purpose of not confusing it and I've marked them AG 1-6, that's then six pages including the document already handed in as AG.  The documents will now be handed over to the Committee, Mr Bizos is already in possession of a document, an extra copy will be given to Mr Mpshe as the translator required a copy, Mr Chairman, he's making extra copies.
	Page 1 then Mr Chairman, EXHIBIT AG, is the one which is already before the Committee and Page 2 is then the claim in respect of the official journeys that are taken by Mr Derby-Lewis.  It's got his name and his details of the vehicle and the distance travelled and the date the claim was submitted, the 4th March.
	And then over the page which is then the third page - are the details pertaining to the travelling. And page 4 itself is the claim form and the claim that's submitted is as indicated as for Mr Derby-Lewis and it's for the 21st February until the 5th March.  The details are set out in there and then it's also his appointment which is 4.05 and then 6 is the receipt of the money, of the pay slip rather.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes this will be received as AG 1-6.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, this document was handed to us shortly before the Committee came in - we have had neither an opportunity to study it properly nor to check the correctness or it's providence and authenticity.  I merely want to say at this stage that it can go as an exhibit but we will raise in argument what use can be made of it, Mr Chairman, as it stands.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.

MR PRINSLOO: The next witness is Mr Lionel Du Randt.  This witness has already given evidence in the trial of the two applicants.  His evidence is found in Volume 4, page 158 (298) and this continues to 168 to (308) -  It's on the volume as 158 up to page 168, Mr Chairman, (308) of Volume 4.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO

MR PRINSLOO: May I continue Mr Chairman?
	Mr Du Randt, the applicant on your right hand side, do you know him?

UNKNOWN: Yes I know him.

MR PRINSLOO: Is it correct that you've also in the Supreme Court before Judge Eloff, Judge President of Transvaal, that you testified for the State against Mr Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: I was not a State Witness, but they asked me just to speak the truth.

MR PRINSLOO: But you gave evidence in that trial?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Du Randt, how long have you known Mr Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: As from 1988.

MR PRINSLOO: And you live at Krugersdorp, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: How long have you been living there?

UNKNOWN: Since 1959/1960.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you live in Boshof Street in Krugersdorp?

UNKNOWN: Yes I'm living in that area.

MR PRINSLOO: In 1993 did you live there as well?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Du Randt, from time to time did you attend any of the council meetings of the Council of Krugersdorp?

UNKNOWN: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you have in your possession the minutes or rather not the minutes but the calendar of these council meetings?  Mr Chairman, at this stage I want to present EXHIBIT AI - it consists of four pages.  This is for the Committee as well as Mr Bizos.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this document really relevant?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, with respect this document is really relevant, it refers to particular dates which dates are in dispute in this particular Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Are the dates of the meeting in dispute of the date of the attendance of the meetings in dispute?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, the dispute is to when a particular event that took place and the references will be made to dates pertaining to the meetings that took place at the Town Council.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you.  Mr Du Randt, various meetings were held and I refer you specifically to the meetings and you must tell the Committee whether you've attended these meetings.  AI and right at the top 1180 was the first meeting of the Council on the 27th January, do you confirm that?

UNKNOWN: I confirm that date yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And are you aware that the meetings are being held on Wednesdays?  On which Wednesdays are these Council meetings held?

UNKNOWN: Usually the last Wednesday of every month.

MR PRINSLOO: And then when we page to the second page there's another reference to a Council Meeting, it's right at the top, just look at this document, right at the top, do you see the date, the 24th February 1993?  Would that have been the last Wednesday of the month?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Was that also a Council Meeting?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And then were any Special Meetings held where the Mayor was elected?  On which date did that happen?

UNKNOWN: That was on the 10th March.

MR PRINSLOO: And that is EXHIBIT AI the bottom of page 4 under 7.2, that was a Special Meeting - Election of the Mayor and the Vice-Mayor.  Do you see that there?  Do you still have the original programme?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: You have that in front of you?  Mr Chairman, we did not make copies of the document which this witness has in his possession - this is the original document he had in his possession if you want to have a look at it.  I don't want to give all these documents to the Committee.  Mr Du Randt, may I continue Mr Chairman?  Mr Du Randt, when you gave evidence in the Supreme Court you said that the meeting you're referring to here was under cross-examination of Advocate de Vos.  He appeared on behalf of the applicant and this was the meeting pertaining to the election of the Mayor, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Which meeting was that?

UNKNOWN: That was the election of the new Mayor.

MR PRINSLOO: Was there any election of the Mayor at any of these other dates we've just referred to?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR PRINSLOO: So, when you refer in your evidence to the election of the Mayor that was according to your evidence in the Supreme Court, to which date were you referring?

UNKNOWN: I said that was the last Wednesday of the month.

MR PRINSLOO: And that date is the 10th March?

UNKNOWN: The 10th March.

MR PRINSLOO: In the Supreme Court you gave evidence and you were lead by Mr von Lieres based on your evidence that that had happened on the 24th February.  Was that what you testified?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And what are you saying today about that evidence, that regarding the 24th February - what are you
saying in regard to that it is now the 10th March?

UNKNOWN: What I've said there is that it was the last Wednesday of the month, I did not specify the date there.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Du Randt, that meeting on the 10th March when the Mayor was elected, did you attend that meeting?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you see the applicant there, yes or no?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did the applicant talk to you there?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did he tell you anything?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: What did he ask you?

UNKNOWN: He came and sat in front of me and he talked to me and he said somebody would bring a jersey to my house.

MR PRINSLOO: Was it strange to you that this applicant would deliver things to your house?

UNKNOWN: No it was not strange because I was a member of the Conservative Party and sometimes I had to deliver post, for example, to him.

MR PRINSLOO: This meeting of the 10th March, at what time did that meeting commence?

UNKNOWN: It was round about four o'clock that afternoon, it was not a long meeting.  It was only a meeting to elect the Mayor.