Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-25

MR LAX: Just to tell you that that incident forms - evidence about that incident was heard amongst others in the trial of Eugene de Kock, and other people who are relatives of some of those deceased have also given evidence to us.  And what we will do is, once all the evidence is collected, maybe try and get you the full picture so you can be clear about what really happened.

WITNESS:   Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama.  I think one of the important things that could help you as well is to get full information about how your daughter died.  I am sure your heart yearns for that.  I will ask one more question.  How is your health?  You went through such a difficult time, how is your health now?

WITNESS:   I am a sick person.  My nerves trouble me and my heart gets tired, and this child was working for me, she was the breadwinner.  Every time I remember her I do not know what to do.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... somebody who was supporting you.

WITNESS:   A very important person.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you getting a grant?

WITNESS:   No.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... get it.

WITNESS:   Lesotho does not provide pensions.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... surviving, Mama?

WITNESS:   I am selling traditional beer so that I can gather some few cents for the children to travel to school, and I cook porridge for them.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you go to hospital for the treatment for your health?

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mama Mohatla ... (inaudible) - end of Side A, Tape 3) ... Mama, we are concerned about your situation, we are concerned about your health.  We are also concerned about the children.  We'll take note of what you are saying and we will forward your name as one of those people who needs urgent assistance.  We promise that we will get in touch with you.  Okay, thank you very much.

MR LAX: Just one last question please.  Was she a Lesotho citizen or a South African citizen at the time?

WITNESS:   She was a Lesotho citizen.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mama.  We wish you all the best.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... witness is Mr Likotsi, Johannes Likotsi.  (Pause)  Good morning, Dada Likotsi.  How are you today?

JOHANNES LIKOTSI: Good morning.  I am fine, except the fact that I was harassed by the police at night, many of them that I do not even know today.  They harassed the whole family.  I do not know even the time because I have never been to school.  Our township was dark in those years because we didn't have any light.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: It looks like you have a very important story to tell us, but before we do that we would like you to take an oath.  Mr Lax will help you to do that.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Likotsi, you needn't stand up.  I saw that you were having some difficulty walking.

JOHANNES LIKOTSI: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

MR LAX: Mr Likotsi, I will be helping you with your evidence.  It's correct that you are 70 years of age?

WITNESS:   Yes, you are correct.

MR LAX: Can you tell us a little bit about your family.  Is your wife still with you?

WITNESS:   My family was affected since that day.  The woman that was just sitting here is a picture of my wife.  She cannot walk.  She has to attend doctors every day.  She is undergoing treatment at Pelonomi, and I also undergo treatment at Botshabelo Hospital.  I took my last table this morning.  Now my life was affected since that day.  It was at night.

MR LAX: Please just wait a second.  I just want to know about your children first and then you can tell us the story.  How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have 10 children.  Only eight are left behind.  Two passed away.  Now, on the day of this assault I was with three children at home and the grandchildren.  The grandchildren are five in number and they go to school.  Some of them are in Bloemfontein, others are in Thaba Nchu and others in Wepener, and the others are around Botshabelo.  Some of my grandchildren belong to my son, who is mentally disturbed, and the last-born has a pair of twins, and their father is also mentally disturbed.

MR LAX: Please try not to speak right into the microphone, just keep a little bit of distance.  These microphones are very sensitive, they'll pick up your voice nicely.  Sorry, you were telling us about your last-born son.

WITNESS:   Yes, he is mentally disturbed.  He was born in 1948.  He was born in September.

MR LAX: Now, of these children who are still living with you and your wife?

WITNESS:   I am staying with Thomas Likotsi.  That is my son.  He is now the father in the house because he is working, he is the breadwinner, and he is also taking care of the one I have just said that he is mentally disturbed.  The other one is a businessman so he couldn't get a chance to come here.  My wife cannot walk. I am not in a position to buy her a wheelchair, and we have to go to doctors all around the country and we are lacking funds for the transport.

MR LAX: Now, can you tell us about the incident that happened?  It happened in May '93, is that right?