Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

PANEL MEMBER: Now this particular night is this the day people wearing balaclavas came?

MRS TSHANGA: No, that is later, that is later.  Then I ran into my sister-in-law's house.  She opened for me and she said open the gate and I said, no, I can't open and I was urinating on myself and we called the police when she opened.
 The police van came and I didn't know what had happened to my husband and then I screamed and then the police shouted and said I was making a noise.  I said no I am not making a noise, because my husband has been attacked by AZAPO and the police said, no you UDF are full of nonsense.
 And my husband says no, I am here and then they took us to Le Grange and then they came back to check the damage in our house.  We gave a statement but that didn't go anywhere.
 The same year, 1985 we were not putting up at our house because we were scared.  So we were putting up at one of my sisters-in-law's house.  One night a child came and said AZAPO is on its way to us and my husband went out and we heard some shots and he was shot.
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 And I was going to my sister again to tell my sister-in-law that AZAPO had come again.
 And he was being brought to my sister-in-law's place and they were carrying him, he had a gun shot wound on his leg.

PANEL MEMBER: Now this particular one you are mentioning now, are they confused in the statement because according to the statement that is later?

MRS TSHANGA: I said no, so my sister called the police and not the ambulance, then the police came and they had a look at him and they called an ambulance and the ambulance took us to the police station, took us to the hospital.
 And at the hospital two Boers, Detectives came and they asked my husband which organisation did he belong to and he said he belonged to the UDF and it was a White guy who spoke Xhosa and they took a statement but they didn't go anywhere with that statement and my husband spent some months in the hospital and he came back.  
 One of his legs was shorter than the other and he was a very nervous person now.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you.  On this day, on the day the police came at night, the police came claiming to be AZAPO, what happened?

MRS TSHANGA: The police came at night at knocked at our home, they were with Magiselogo, he was a member of AZAPO.  They knocked, they kicked the doors and the door was broken in the middle and they woke my husband up, hitting him and they took him out.
 And they took him and his younger brother Velapi, and they locked them up.

PANEL MEMBER: But the statement seems to be upside down a PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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bit.  Let me just ask you a question.  When the police came to your house wearing AZAPO attire, was that something that was normal?

MRS TSHANGA: No, they did that.  Sometimes it would appear to be police and sometimes it is AZAPO. And sometimes they would knock and say we are police only to find that they are AZAPO members.

PANEL MEMBER: So was this a trick played by the police so that they pretended to be AZAPO to perpetrate the fight in the township? Did the AZAPO people go with the police normally?

MRS TSHANGA: Yes, yes, they did.  Also when my husband had been discharged from hospital, you would hear gun shots in the township.  Three police came to my place and they wanted to search our house, they said your husband has a gun.  I said where does my husband get a gun? And then they wanted to break the floor, I said, no you can't break my floor, because my husband doesn't have a gun and he is not here.  And then they left and then I told my husband when he came.

PANEL MEMBER: So you went to the policeman at (indistinct) and asked about this gun. I don't know what they said to you.

MRS TSHANGA: They came back and then at some stage this Tshaka's were quarrelling and having a conflict with him and this slogans on the walls written.

PANEL MEMBER: Just tell me, your husband when they went to the shop and when he came back, when he said he was from a shebeen and they accused him of attacking someone at the shebeen.

MRS TSHANGA: That day some Tshaka's knocked at night and my husband was asleep and then they came, there were 12 of
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them.
 They were with Sergeant Jeje and I said to Sergeant Jeje, we've come to you now.  My husband was a very quiet person.  I said to my husband do get up, they want you.  So he got up and he put on his clothes.  As he was putting on his jersey, his younger brother Velapi came and said what's wrong my brother?
 And he said I don't know.  And he said you don't know what it is when you've just attacked people at the shebeen and he said have you come to fetch me for that, something that I don't know about and they hit him with a gun and put him out.
 And even then my children ran to their aunt and my sister-in-law came.

PANEL MEMBER: Was someone charged for that or was he the one who was charged?  Was he charged?

MRS TSHANGA: No, he didn't go to court.

PANEL MEMBER: On this particular day in October 1987, what did your husband do?

MRS TSHANGA: He was from court where they were being charged for an alleged murder and later that night he went to his aunt Zhisakele Thingane.  He went to Zhisakele's place.

PANEL MEMBER: Was Zhisakele related?  What was Zhisakele?

MRS TSHANGA: She was also a member of the UDF.  She was a member of the UDF.  So he said he was going to Zhisakele.  I could see that it was too late and I was very impatient because he was not coming back.
 I went to his older brother.  I explained to him that it was too late and my husband had said he was going to Zhisakele and I was worried that he may have been attacked
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by the trackers, so we went with my brother-in-law to Zhisakele.  He didn't come to his place.  So we went and as we were going we saw a big crowd of people.
 I said to my brother-in-law do you see that crowd?
He said, yes I see those people, but I am scared of going there because you are also limping.  I said I am also scared and then this tracker van stopped and appeared and said that he stopped the van and he was scared.So we went home.  I stopped at the gate and waited, and waited, very worried and hoping that he would appear.  Then appeared a blue kombi with dimmed lights, and then it stopped at the corner and a Boer who was wearing a white shirt, appeared and opened the kombi.  I thought someone was calling to come out the van, they went off again, slowly.
 And I waited, and waited, I said to my brother-in-law do you see this kombi?  He said, yes, I see it and then I waited for a long time and then eventually I went to bed.
 And then the following morning at seven this truckers in their van came to report that my husband was hanging somewhere near the school.

PANEL MEMBER: And when you got there, what was he like?

MRS TSHANGA: I didn't go myself. I didn't go to where he was hanging.  Where I saw him, I saw him in a photo at the police station.  I just saw someone standing against the tree wearing his hat.

PANEL MEMBER: Was there an inquest or a post-mortem?

MRS TSHANGA: Yes, yes there was a post-mortem and I even went to the lawyers.

PANEL MEMBER: Which lawyers were these?

MRS TSHANGA: They were lawyers, ANC lawyers whose offices were near Africa House, some street there, just below Africa PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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House.

PANEL MEMBER: You don't remember the names of the police, you don't remember their names of these lawyers?