Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-15

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: It appeared as though it was just a criminal - a murder even though you suspect that it may have been a political motivation?

MS ROBINSON: Yes, they wanted it to appear as such but I do not believe it to be as such.  I can mention a name but it - it is merely hearsay.  The name Mervin  Arries - I do not know if he was a reservist policeman or what he was in the Police Force - what he was in the Police Force but the Tuesday evening he came there and he said to one of the boys that I raised
I warned Ronny 3 months before the time not to drive - not
to drive around alone anywhere but his time had run out so 
they had to do their work.  
That is what he said, he did not say it to me personally but he said it to one of the children who  I raised in my house.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mervin also said nobody must take about this advise that he had given ...[intervention]

MS ROBINSON: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Because  [indistinct]  his life.

MS ROBINSON: Yes, because there was a time were he was not in Paarl, he was gone from Paarl until after the matter was finalized and then only did he come back.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: [indistinct] you think that your husband would be the target of a political murder as gruesome as his murder?

MS ROBINSON: My husband wasn't scared, he was not afraid of anyone and he fought for human rights.  He was a man for his community.  He supported the poor, and the people that were battling.  So many times I said to him
You've got no time for your own house and your own
family, we've got just as many problems but you are never 
here when I need you. 
And he said
But my wife you know where I am going to and you know 
my cause is a contribution to the struggle.  
 So once again I say that he was not afraid of anybody and he stood for what he believed in and for his community.  There are many people here that can bear testimony to that - to the fact that he stood for his community.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: He is seen as a community leader and seen as somebody who spoke out against injustices in the Paarl community, he became a target and he became  [indistinct] to those who didn't want people to speak our.  Is that so?

MS ROBINSON: Yes, look he was in the UDF, he was in the ANC, he was involved in the workers organizations, in the T & G workers organization and since he had linked up with the UDF there was a time where he was away - where he had to flee.  It was - I cannot remember exactly whether it was in August or September in 1986.  It was 1986 then when everyone has to flee for their lives basically.  And he had to - he could only come back after Christmas the following year but I cannot remember the exact years but he was gone.
 And I could not even receive a telephone call for him, he had to phone different people in order to contact me and I had to work in a very slight manner to get to Cape Town to go and give him support on Sundays and to see him.  The girl that was born there by us, I took her with me and he loved this child very much and I took her with me Sundays so that he could see her and we had to spend the days on the beach and so forth.
 And it continued like that until he could come home, but in the time that he was gone the police would come at night and come and ransack my house to see what they could find in my house that would count as evidence against him.  And they would just - there's something that I want to mention today specifically.  I would like them to bring Daniels - who was an Investigating Officer forward so that he can come and give evidence as to who the informers were all these years.  
 Where I was working at Langeberg and one day he sent people to come and fetch me at my work and interrogate me as to where my husband was, saying I knew where he as and if I don't tell them now, my papers are ready.  And that they would send me to Robben Island if I refuse to talk.
So I said to him if it - if that's what you want to do then so be it, but I do not know where he is.  And they wanted to know why didn't you tell us that your husband is missing and at the time my husband was unemployed.  So I said to him
Would I come to you people when I have a husband that's
not working and I am working for my house.  Why should I 
come to you people.
Because I did not want to betray him, I knew where he was.  Because if I remember correctly there was a time were he lived with Dullah Omar when he was - when he was on the run, but I did not want to tell him to tell him where he was.  But I would like him to be brought forward so that he can come and give evidence as to who the informers were.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: You were harassed by the police and you also went through your own suffering with regards to ...[intervention]

MS ROBINSON: Yes, they came at night and they also came to my work.  And they'd come - the Paarl police would come and take me for questioning at the Police Station.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Ms Robinson I have before me some really gruesome photographs off your husbands body.  I know it's very terrible for you to go through this experience.  You did say that you were not allowed to see your husband's body at the time of the funeral.  Where you able at any point to - to get to know how badly he was hurt?

MS ROBINSON: Look I saw his body after the postmortem had been performed but when the body was found at the - on the mountain I was not allowed to identify it.  But after they had performed the postmortem and cleaned him, Solomon said that he was going to fetch the corpse at the Police Mortuary and keep it at his place.
And he called somebody to fetch me so that I could fetch the body at the Police Station and that's the first time I saw him.  Than was approximately 8 thereafter - if I remember correctly it was - he was murdered on the Monday evening and the Friday I saw his body for the first time and them I saw how my - my husband was murdered.  
 Because he was fair but he did not have any color in his face because it looked like burn marks and candle marks the way they tortured him.  That is why I doubt it because if the police weren't after him for all these years, I wouldn't have had such strong doubts and reservations in my mind.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: [indistinct] more questions to ask you.  How do you feel about Philander?

MS ROBINSON: I don't know if I should say I hate him but as a Christian I suppose your - you have to say that you have to forgive.  But as I said if that was God's will that he should have met his fait in that way then perhaps I should be at ease.  
Because to hate Philander now is not going to bring my husband back to me because I said at the time of the trial if the law want to acquit him because they are dirty enough to do that, they can acquit him.  But he will have to live with his conscious for the rest of his live and that will be his punishment.  So I do not know if I should hate him or what I should do, but I do not believe that I hate him because he got what he deserved, but he has to come back with the truth.  He has to come with the truth, that is my feeling.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Listen you have moved me very deeply, I do not have any more questions to ask you and I'll hand over to the Chairperson.

MS GOBODO: Thank you Glenda, any ?

REV XUNDU: Thank you very Chairperson, so your request if I - if I want to understand it well is that you would like Ruben Philander to give us information as to whom he was when he - when your husband was murdered or tortured.

MS ROBINSON: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

MS GOBODO: Denzil ...END OF TAPE 2, SIDE B...

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] Robinson you said that you had some document - some documentation with regard to the injuries.  Was it - is that a medical report?

MS ROBINSON: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you have it with you?

MS ROBINSON: Yes, I brought it along with me.