Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

DR BORAINE: Can I just ask you to come to the time when you were actually detained for those - I think you were five months pregnant, tell us about that and what happened after that please.

MS M MTHEMBU: It was on the 1st of January 1986, on the New Year.  There were Boers who came in the morning.  They arrived at home.  They said there was a MK who has come here in the town ...(tape ends) ....and then they went out.  On the 22nd of January they came back again.  It was 3 a.m. in the morning and they said Maria dress up let us go.  I thought they will come out so that I could dress but they wouldn't even give me a chance.  I had to dress in front of them.  They said now you are going to tell us where your friend Mabula is.  I said to them I don't know where Mabula is.  I said to them I don't know where Mabula is.  They said you know, it's your friend.  So they took me where Mabula stays.  They said I must show them who Mabula is.  When those people came out I looked at them I said no Mabula is not there, Mabula is not among those people.  They said are you serious.  So they took me away.
 When they arrived at the police station there was a trunk, I sat on top of it.  I just sat there, it was very cold.  There was nothing I could do.  They spoke to me, 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
26 M MTHEMBU
threatening me, but I said there is nothing I can tell you, I don't know anything, what I am telling you is the truth.  So they said to my mother she must talk to me so that I can reveal the truth and my mother said I don't know her activities I really don't know anything.  So they took me to John Vorster and left my mother.  At John Vorster I stayed in isolation.  I stayed in isolation in March.  
 In March they took me they said come wake up we are taking you to court without a lawyer, and I didn't even know anything.  They took me to Pretoria where there were government attorneys, there were those people who were sitting there.  I sat on the chair.  They took a lot of books and put them on the table and said do you know these books?  I said no.  They said I must write.  I spent the whole day writing.  They said I must write in different forms, capital letters, different forms of writing so they checked everything.  They said so tell us where are your friends, where is Mabula?  I said I don't know who Mabula is.  I said what's between you and Mabula?  You must know that if we don't find Mabula we are going to kill you.  I said that's alright. So they booked me at the hospital.  When I went to the district surgeon he said why don't they take you out of the isolation and take you to Sun City, and the cop refused.  They said I don't want to cooperate with them, so I stayed in isolation until I got sick.  I had a headache, a severe headache, so they took me to the hospital.  After the hospital they took me back to the isolation until they decided on their own to take me to Sun City.
 When I was in Sun City they put me in a cell.  There was an elderly woman from Orlando and some other girls.  I 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
27 M MTHEMBU
stayed there for four to five days.  On the sixth day I went to the hospital and I gave birth.  After giving birth I stayed at the hospital and I was under guard by the police for eight days and I stayed with the baby.  After the hospital they took me back to Sun City prison, they took me to a cell with the baby.   They said a woman who is here take her to the hospital section of the prison, they said no we cannot take her to any hospital section, she deserves to be here.  It was May and it was cold and I had a small baby.  We took the beds and we combined them and we put the blankets around to make the place warm for the baby.  I stayed there 11 days inside that cell with the baby.  When they took me out the cell without a baby so nobody could see that I had a baby.  
 On the day that I was told that we were being released they came here and said you are going to be released tomorrow.  I didn't believe them because they kept on saying I was going to be released when I couldn't be released.  That day they came and said take all your clothes together you are going to be released.  They took me to the waiting room downstairs.  When the Alexandra combi came I got inside.  I was taken to  - this Alex drove towards other comrades places, it was no longer nice when I was released.  Things were not very nice and there was also a baby.  When I arrived at Alexandra Police Station they put everything off and they left me inside the charge office.  They said will you continue doing this and I just kept quiet.  And then they took me with this baby and dropped me at the gate of my home. At home they just saw me coming home.  My mother got very happy.  They said if I am visiting anywhere I must come and tell them.  Any movement I make I must go and 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
28 M MTHEMBU
report to them.  I just kept quiet.  I told them here at home I am not going to report my movements to the police.  I used to go wherever I wanted to without reporting to them.  They said I shouldn't be found among a group of people.  They also asked me what is the name of the baby?  I said it's Nonkululeko.  They said why are you giving your child the Kululeko?  They said what's the christian name I said Precious.  They said why are you saying Precious?  I said no it's a precious baby to me I gave birth to this baby while in prison.  They said here is Maria the person who gave birth while in prison, because I had not planned it just happened there, I couldn't blame myself for that, giving birth to a baby whilst in prison.

DR BORAINE: The information you have given us about your brother's death is helpful to us together with the information from your mother.  You have also told us about your own sufferings, in particular the many months that you were in prison, the birth of your baby, your release, this must be very, very hard for you.  I have no more questions for you, except to try to feel with you for the long years of harassment and suffering and think the one great joy for you and for your mother must be your very precious Precious your baby and now young girl.  I am going to hand you over to the Chairperson in case there are other questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Russel Ally?

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Chairperson.  You say that the police said that they killed Jerry by mistake, did you get a sense from the police that they actually knew Jerry?

MS M MTHEMBU: The way I view things Motemi is somebody who knew all of us at home because when Jerry was shot Motemi was among that group.  I don't know how it came about that
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
29 M MTHEMBU
they shot at him because he was just standing there innocently.

RUSSELL ALLY: Who actually shot at him?

MS M MTHEMBU: No, I don't know who shot Jerry, but there are two witnesses.  Because after they had shot Jerry, Jerry ran and fell into another house and they took out his T-shirt and tied him around where he had been shot and the cops pulled him out from that house and took him away.

RUSSELL ALLY: Are the two witnesses in your statement?

MS M MTHEMBU: Yes I think in my mother's statement there are the names of those witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera?

DR RANDERA: Maria if you can just tell us again when you said you went to the mortuary and you saw many people who had died, can you just tell us how many people actually died in that uprising at the same time that Jerry died?

MS M MTHEMBU: People I saw there, there were plus/minus 50, but the only names I could take were between 18 and 19 because I didn't want these Boers to see me and realise what I was doing.   There were lots of them in that mortuary, some of them we have not even been able to trace them up till this day.

CHAIRPERSON: Hlengiwe Mkhize.