Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-25

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, I can.  What he did is that he moved his finger across the neck and uttered the words to those who were nearby him, that we should see what we could do about the deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Just for purposes of the record, the sign or the sign indicated by the witness is the typical cut throat sign by stretching the forefinger from the right ear across the throat, to the left ear.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, no further questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mhlambo, did you actually plunge a knife into the deceased?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of knife did you have?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: It was the okapi.

CHAIRPERSON: Where about on her body, did you stab her?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: On the stomach and at the back.

CHAIRPERSON: How many times, can you recall?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: It is not easy, because it has been a long time.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying a number of times or just twice?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: More than twice.

CHAIRPERSON: Did any other person stab her?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Who did you see actually stabbing her?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Because not all of us had knives, we were exchanging with the one.  I actually took the knife that I had and gave it to Spelo Khanyile.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you say that all of you stabbed the deceased?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: It should be like that that all of us, because of the wounds that she had.

CHAIRPERSON: At that stage, 1991, how old were you then?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: I was 19 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sipho, do you have any questions arising out of questions that have been put?  Sorry, Mr Lax indicates that he wants to ask a further question.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, just one thing.  You didn't really answer the Chairperson's question about who you saw stabbing her.  Why are you unable to answer that question?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: I did not understand it quite clearly, whether I should give names or explain as I did about that exchanging the knife.  That is what I had in my mind.
	But if you want the name, I can actually gives names, it is not a problem.

MR LAX: Well, that is what he was asking you, he wanted to know which of your other applicants, did what to the deceased, and whether you can help us with that information.  If you can and if you do remember it, what you are being asked to do is to expand and give us that information.

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Those that are here with us, all of us did stab the deceased.

MR LAX: Can you say who did what?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: As I have explained, I stabbed her and then I gave the knife to Spelo because they were actually, (indistinct) was holding the deceased down and they were exchanging the knife, the knives that we had.
	What I remember, I actually stood and watched, watching everyone stabbing and I realised that Tulani is stabbing, Xolani is stabbing, Fano Tsotetsi was stabbing, Hector Sikakane was also stabbing.  And Bongani Gwala, and Mzwandile Magula.

MR LAX: Why was it necessary for everybody to stab her?  Why was it necessary to hand the knife to someone else so that they should also participate?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: What happened there, because of the shortage of knives, we agreed amongst ourselves that it shouldn't, there shouldn't be anyone who would say you did this, you did that, those did that, we actually saw it fit that all of us must partake in doing this because we started this, we should all of us, finish it.

MR LAX: Okay, that is fine.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sipho, do you have any questions arising out of questions that had been put by members of the panel?

MR SIPHO: Just one question.  Can you tell us how it came about that some of you had knives in your possession on that day?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, what happened, I explained initially that there was an IFP rally and that the person didn't know what to expect as there were people approaching.
	After the rally, what would these people do.  Therefore some of us realised that they should arm themselves so as to protect themselves using those weapons.

MR SIPHO: Thank you, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIPHO

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, do you have any questions arising out of questions that have been put?

MS THABETE: Just one Mr Chair.  How old was Thembi, or approximately how old?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Approximately, I wouldn't say above 24.  It should have been below that.

MS THABETE: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mhlambo, that concludes your evidence, you may stand down, thank you.

<UNKNOWN>: .

CHAIRPERSON: I see now that it is quarter past eleven, I think this would be a convenient time to take the short tea adjournment.  We will then have a short adjournment now.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNED