Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-10

MS MANZANA: I went to Major when I was on the ground and said Major the dog is mine the law is yours.  Major asked where was he?  I said he is on the ground and we went there with Major and he saw him there and he asked who did this and I said it is Oscar.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much,  I just want to give an opportunity now for the sisters too - if there's anything that we've left that you'd like to add before I hand back to the Chairperson.
MS

MABIJA: The sad thing is this - that makes my mother hurt, my mother now ...

DR BORAINE: It's okay, take your time don't rush it.  Perhaps a little water would might help?  Sylvia there's no hurry at all, just take your time, we can pause for a moment.  I can ask perhaps one of the others if they'd like to add anything - it's up to you.
Okay Sylvia while you just recovering a  little bit I'm going to ask Ms Manzana just one last question.  If you could make sure that she's got the microphone,  I'll come back to you in a moment, Sylvia.
Ms Manzana can you hear me all right?  Thank you very much, just  you mentioned right towards the end that you had spoken to a Major.  Can you remember the Major's name?

MS MANZANA: I can't remember his name.  He is tall - I can't remember his name.

DR BORAINE: Do you feel you can carry on now or - you'd like to try, okay.
MS

MABIJA: Since this happened to Phaki my mother got sick - my mother can't do nothing - she's just a parcel - she's got a head sickness - I'm struggling with her because she can't sleep - she can't sleep during the day and at night - and I go everywhere day and night - everyday in my life - so I don't have good health - my father also died because of this - he had a heart attack - so I would like to see the perpetrators - what did they do - why did they kill Phaki? - I'm not in good health - I can't have good health - if there is any help that you can do for my mother - and to take her to the doctors so that she can be better than she is.

DR BORAINE: You have illustrated something which we have seen so many times.  That the death of one person - the killing of one person brings so much sorrow and grieve not only to  this loss of life but also to members of the family and you have obviously suffered very deeply as a family.
We have noted your comments about your mother and the psychiatric treatment and we will certainly do everything we possibly can under the circumstances.  
 Can I ask you a final question is there anything else you would like the Commission to do if the Commission was able to assist in any way?
MS

MABIJA: I would like my mother to get treatment - maybe there will be something better because I'm not in good health - I'm also sick - at night when I sleep I must hold her in my arms - I sleep with her - I must make sure that she is not moving because she wakes up and wants to go out - so there is no good health at all.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, we've also noted that you have asked us to try and find out any details surrounding the death of your brother and we have noted that as well.  I'm going to hand back to the Chairperson in chase any of my fellow Commissioners may which to ask any questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, are there any further questions - Denzil Potgieter?

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson - Ms Manzana I just want to clarify your evidence.  Is it correct - do I understand it correctly that you heard at one stage after Phaki fell - the deceased fell you heard Oscar the policeman saying something?

MS MANZANA: Yes - when I was on the ground floor where Phaki died - Oscar was looking at Phaki and said you must die you dog.

ADV POTGIETER: Sorry, before you saw the body dropping passed the window, did you hear anything in the building?

MS MANZANA: I didn't hear anything he just came from the top floor - I didn't hear him crying - I didn't see him doing anything - I just dropped the tea and went down to the ground - trying to hold Phaki - but I couldn't save him because he was already on the ground and he was lying facing down.  When I went to him - Mtshisana said hey - and I said that's my child's son you can shoot me if you want to.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson, perhaps Shirley could assist with this.  How long was it after the police brought Phaki home that you heard that he had died?
MS

MABIJA: It was about an hour - if I'm not telling lies - even an hour is too long - and we heard that he has died.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you.  We don't know sometimes what to do because we repeating the same thing - with things that are happening - we say we've got the freedom now but is the freedom that came by sacrifice of many people - that came by broken hearts that were experienced by many people - we thank you for giving yourselves just like Phaki because it was a long time hearing this story of his in our church.  We will try out best to investigate this to get the truth of it so that you the family can also forgive and you must know that he was arrested for this when he died he died like this we say that God must strengthen you knowing that this actions were not in vain. Thank you. 
STATEMENT -

COMPLAINANT SYLVIA NONTSIKELELO MABIJA: On 27th June 1977 the police arrived at my home to search.  There were lots of them who came with SAP cars.  They told us that they were looking for Phakamile [Phaki].  At the time Phaki was asleep on the couch with his younger brother.  The police then left with him.  My other brothers had tried to visit him at the police cells at the Transvaal Road Police Station but in vain.  After some days, the 13th day of his arrest, two policemen came with Phakamile to our house.
 It was about 1400 when two of the policemen came home with him.  The two policemen were Oscar Ntsiko [deceased] and Van Wyk.  We could see that Phaki was in pain as he did not even want to speak to us.  The police led him to a carpet in the front room where they lifted it but there was nothing there.  He was later led out into the yard.  We tried to speak to him but he did not answer.  
When they were about to leave the gate Van Wyk told Phaki to greet his people as he would not be able to see us again.  Van Wyk came in with him but he did not say a word.  They then left.
 After about 45 minutes we heard that Phaki had committed suicide.  This was unlike him as he had a strong character and he was also the community builder.  As a result of this incident his  father had suffered from a heart attack which had resulted in his death in 1983.  His mother had been affected by her son's death to such an extend that she is an invalid.  An inquest was held but nothing come out of it.
STATEMENT COMPLAINANT  -

SHIRLEY MABIJA: On 7th July 1977 I was sitting with the family at 3048 Miti Street at plus-minus 1230 when two or three policemen arrived with Phakamile Mabija, my brother.  He did not have his specs on or his belt.  His lips looked very dry.  The policemen would not let me speak to him.  He said that he did not know what they wanted from him.  
The black policeman - Oscar Ntsiko and the other policeman took him outside to the gate and then brought him back.  They told him - groet jou familie, jy gaan hulle nie weer sien nie.  They then took him away.
 At 300pm on that same day we heard from others - [neighbours] that he had fallen out of a 6th floor window at Transvaal Road police station.
 A white and black policeman came to tell us that he had died.  Sergeant Mkhosi was the black policeman.  I don't know who the white one was.
 My brothers have more details - Themba and Abraham Mabija.  The incident was reported to the Transvaal Road police station.
STATEMENT -