Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-13

MR BERGER: Were there any other instructions given to you at the stadium or on the way to Boipatong or in Boipatong, as to how the attack should be carried out?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I don't remember such.

MR BERGER: Were you not afraid when you left kwaMadala on your way to Boipatong that you would be spotted by the police or the Army, or the ISCOR security?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I was afraid.

MR BERGER: And what assurances were you given that you need not worry about the police because they were going to assist in the attack?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: No assurances were given to that respect.

MR BERGER: And yet as a policeman with some experience in the Force, you were part of a group - you were willing, according to you, part of a group of men armed with dangerous weapons proceeding on a night with a full moon, with lights along the road, and you weren't picked up by the police.  You didn't find this strange at all?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: No.

MR BERGER: I'm just going to put it to you as a fact, that the police were involved in the attack on Boipatong; that the police vehicles were in Boipatong at the time of the attack;  and that white men who could have been policemen, wearing balaclavas were also involved in carrying out the attack.

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: The fact is, the IFP branch which is in kwaMadala were not working in coalition with the police.  In the very same night I was never in the company of police, I didn't see police while we were attacking the place, nor were we helped with the police when we entered or were leaving the place.  Therefore I don't know anything about the involvement of police or white people.  I have no reason why I should protect the police here.  I have no single intention or reason to protect them.

MR BERGER: Do you know a Sergeant Peens of the SAP?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: He was active in the Vaal during this period, 1990 to 1992, is that correct?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Before I can answer, when you say he was active, are you referring to the police work or politics?
Please explain the question to me.

MR BERGER: Well let me ask you this them Mr Tshabangu, in what branch of the police was Sergeant Peens?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: If I'm not mistaken he was in the Murder and Robbery Unit.

MR BERGER: Would that be Murder and Robbery, Vereeniging?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Vanderbijl, I would say Flora Garden.

MR BERGER: Did you know a policeman by the name of Shaga?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: Where was he working at the time, 1992, June?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I think he was still at Municipality Police.  I don't know exactly where he was working at the time.

MR BERGER: Do you know where he is now?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I normally see him around Vaal, I'm not sure whether he stays at Sebokeng or Boipatong, but I usually see him.

MR BERGER: What are his full names?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I know him as Tickie Shaga.

MR BERGER: Did you know a policeman, a white policeman who was called Rooikop, he had red hair?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: Can you tell the Committee what his full names are and where he was working in June 1992?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I don't know his full names.  I think he was also in the Murder and Robbery Unit, subject to correction.

MR BERGER: Was he working together with Sergeant Peens at Murder and Robbery, Vanderbijl?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: That's what I know.

MR BERGER: Who is Gatcheni?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I know Gatcheni as Ndlovu, he is Ndlovu.

MR BERGER: What are his full names and where was he in June of 1992?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I don't know his full names?  We used to call him Makeke, if you are referring to the Mr Ndlovu that I know.  On the 17th of June I don't remember whether I did see him or whether he was present or not, I don't know.

MR BERGER: But this Mr Ndlovu, was he a hostel resident?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: And what was his first name?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I repeat, I don't know his full names.  We used to call him Makeke.

MR BERGER: And this is the same person who was known as Gatcheni?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: You also heard yesterday, and I'll try and make this short, I read from certain affidavits, and in particular the affidavit of a man who was a security guard at Metalbox, who said that he saw an army vehicle coming from the direction of where Cape Gate and Slovo Park is, coming towards the direction of Frikkie Meyer Boulevard, and he saw that vehicle before he heard any shots being fired in Boipatong.  I want to ask you the question Mr Tshabangu, whether it's your evidence that there were no SADF vehicles in the vicinity of Boipatong, very close vicinity of Boipatong at the time of the attack?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Soldiers or I should say the soldiers' vehicles, with reference to this photograph - aerial photograph, I don't know whether it's the "M" one, I don't know whether point "H" is Frikkie Meyer, when we were getting out of Boipatong we just crossed a bridge.  The vehicle was standing on the road as we were coming closer after crossing the bridge.  It proceeded and stopped at a Trek Garage, that's where I saw the soldiers' vehicle.

MR BERGER: That was when you were coming out of Boipatong?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Yes.

MR BERGER: So your evidence is that there were no Army vehicles or police vehicles inside Boipatong at the time of the attack?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: No.

MR BERGER: I'm sorry Mr Tshabangu, that means you're saying they were not in Boipatong at the time of the attack, am I right?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I'm saying when we left kwaMadala, entered Boipatong - went to Boipatong and getting out of Boipatong, I was never in the company of police or soldiers.  I first saw soldiers when we were getting out of Boipatong, they were standing on point "H" of the aerial photograph, which is the N1 I think.  That's my evidence.

MR BERGER: You testified yesterday that you only attacked one person and caused damage to one house during the time that you were in Boipatong, is that right?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I said I did attack one person with a stick, I did destroy some goods.  I only entered one house and destroyed goods inside.  That's what I said yesterday.

MR BERGER: The house that you went into, that was the only house that you went into, and the only house that you caused damage to, am I right?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: The house that I entered, it's not the only house where I destroyed goods.  I did a lot of damage in many houses, breaking windows and any other goods which I found outside.  However, this is the only house that I entered, the house I'm referring to.

MR BERGER: Where was that house?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I won't be able to precisely say where it was, but I will say it's towards the end when we were getting out, on the last streets which exits the area.  I entered the house when we were about to leave.

MR BERGER: You see Mr Tshabangu, I find it strange that you can't be more precise than that for someone who spent so much time in Boipatong, you would surely know the one house that you entered and caused so much damage to.

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: Sir, I don't remember.  This happened about 6 years ago.

MR BERGER: Were there any people in the house when you entered?

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: I didn't see people.

MR BERGER: At the stadium you wanted an AK47, and you landed up with a stick.  I take it you were very keen to kill as many people as possible in Boipatong that night?  If I'm correct, I put it to you that it's difficult to believe that you only attacked one person.

MPLUPEKI TSHABANGU: It is true that I was prepared to kill as many people as possible with an AK47.  I ended up with a stick, and my wishes were diminished or couldn't be fulfilled.  And even this person, I didn't go straight to him, he was someone who was running away.