Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-07

MR KAKANA: What I would like to say is that this thing is about the Menzi and Kakana family.  I would like the Commission to bring them together because this has preyed to all the families.  Everybody who did anything was doing this in Menzi and Kakana family name.  If both families can come together, this will be resolved.  I do go to Cookhouse, nothing is happening to me.  We greet each other, but there is still something amongst us.  We have to be together to greet each other and to hold hands so that we can forgive each other.  That is what I meant.

ADV SANDI: Thank you very much.  Thank you, Mr Kakana.  Is that all you wanted to say before I can ask Nokuzola if she wants to add something?

MR KAKANA: Many family members have died like Batayi, our houses, we were homeless at that time, we had to start afresh to build houses, I resigned from the railway, I had to go back to start back, my aims were disrupted, I wanted to build future for my children.  Nokuzola will help me because I can see that the lady next to me is very disturbed.

ADV SANDI: Do you want to add something, Nokuzola?

CHAIRPERSON: Before we can continue, there is something that I think should be stopped there at the door.  I do not know whether these people just came in.  We continued these proceedings very well, we were giving people respect who were testifying, but now I think there are people who are trying to disrupt our proceedings here in Grahamstown.  We will ask these people to stop doing that.  We do not like this.  What we want is to give people who are here to testify, we want to give them respect to listen to them and to listen to their stories as we have listened to other stories before.  If one has a problem, he has a right to leave the hall.  I would like you to respect this, not to disrupt the proceedings of the Commission.  Thank you.

MR KAKANA: Mr Chairperson, there is something I missed.  There were mistakes which were written in newspapers and in the television that the Kakana family received R75 000,00.  There is no such.  The person who did that was Dr Vosloo who was in Somerset East.  When I went to Somerset East to ask him about this I was told that he left Somerset to go to Transvaal.  I would like him to come back and to tell the truth to the people, that the Kakana family received money in order to kill people.  I would like the people to know that we are human-beings, we were living together with other people.  We are not what other people think we are.  I will hand over to Nokuzola to speak.

ADV SANDI: Mr Wele Samuel Kakana, who was supposed to be here, according to your knowledge what he was going to say is it the same as you have already said?

MR KAKANA: I am not sure, because a person changes all the time.  He was supposed to be here.  I tried yesterday as I received a telephone call at work, I tried to go to Cookhouse yesterday. It was raining and he said that he will be here.  I am surprised today because he is not here.  I cam from Fort Beaufort this morning and I came to these hearings.  I do not know why he is not here.  I do not know whether he will add something different to what I have already testified.

ADV SANDI: Do you know whether his house was burnt and his livestock?

MR KAKANA: At that time I cannot say clearly, because, but his house was burnt.  He was supposed to come here to testify himself.  There is another, our family members whose houses were burnt down and other houses were not rebuilt.

ADV SANDI: Let us now come to Nokuzola to hear what she has to say.

MS N L N KAKANA: As they have already said what happened, what I would like to add is that I would like Dr Vosloo to tell us in which bank he deposited this amount of money, where did he train the Kakana family.  I would like the Commission to tell, to go to him and to ask him to explain all this.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Nokuzola.  Do you have anything to add, Mam, to this?  Do you have anything else to add?  Thank you Mr Kakana, thank you Nokuzola and thank you Mrs Kakana.  I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Xundu.

REV XUNDU: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I would like to know about the Dr Vosloo.  What is his connection about the money, the amount of money received?  What was his status?

MS N L N KAKANA: When I heard this from the radio, Dr Vosloo claimed that he gave the Kakana family this money as it was known that we were hired by the Boers to kill people.  Dr Vosloo said that he gave this amount of money so that we can buy weapons.

REV XUNDU: Was he a doctor in Somerset East?

MS N L N KAKANA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: We have to investigate this.  He has to give us evidence why did he say these accusations.  The second point, Mr Chairperson, without wasting your time.  I want you, Nokuzola, to tell us what can be done to bring about peace in these two families.

MS N L N KAKANA: As we went to them to ask for forgiveness, we spoke with each other, we are now greeting each other.  Mr Menzi said that those who were, who did not go to him to apologise must go to him and apologise so that he can be satisfied.  That is also my wish that those who did not go to him to apologise must do so.

REV XUNDU: What about Xhalanga?

MS N L N KAKANA: Xhalanga is in Fort Beaufort.  There was another family, Antonie's family and Belanie's family, Jantjies family who was on our side.

REV XUNDU: You are also saying that there must be means to help you to be together to try and talk these things out.

MS N L N KAKANA: Yes, we can do that and that will help us in Cookhouse.

CHAIRPERSON: I want to ask questions about the conflict between the two families.  It is not clear to me whether this conflict was political or whether it was due to the fact that these two families had businesses, they were competing.

MR KAKANA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, that is what I want to know, because if we can come together, we can find out what happened, what started all this problem.  We have to sit down and each of us had to state, in front of the Commission what happened, because now, in the long run, the Kakanas' and the Menzis' are separate even if certain individuals are against the Kakana family, will say that they belong to the Menzi family.

CHAIRPERSON: I want to come to that point, because we found out that when there is such a difference, the police would come between the two families.  According to you was there any involvement of the police?

MR KAKANA: Unfortunately, the, we were not members of the police force, as the Kakana family, we joined the police, because we were unemployed, we were stranded.

CHAIRPERSON: I am not asking that, Mr John Kakana.  What I am trying to find is a solution to this problem and I think we are going to find a solution if we open our hearts and say the truth.  I want to know that if, since there was this difference, did the police come between you, because the evidence we found here shows clearly that the police were not even-handed, they were favouring one side. I just want to hear your view about this matter.

MR KAKANA: Yes, it is so, but the police have to be asked whether they were supporting the Kakana family or the other side, but I do not remember.

CHAIRPERSON: According to you, there was no involvement?

MR KAKANA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words, there was no third force, because in all these conflicts between UDF, Inkatha and Inkatha and ANC and Inkatha, there is always a third force.  In your situation, you do not see any third force?

MR KAKANA: No, we were supporting each other as Kakana family as we are a big family.  We were not depending on the police.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we will conclude this matter.  We have noted your request.  Reverend Xundu.