Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-03

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Erwee, I could be mistaken, but I seem to recollect that 
your evidence was that it took approximately 10 minutes before Captain Born could 
be loaded onto the helicopter.  Would my recollection be correct?

ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE: It could have been that time, yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So, if it took approximately 10 minutes, would it not have 
been possible for you by that time to have ascertained if there were any injured people 
inside the combi?

ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE: When I got to the helicopter, I stayed there, I didn't go.  They came to 
me with Captain Born.  I didn't know beforehand where the chopper would land.
	I also don't know who summoned the helicopter, I just heard that it was 
already airborne.  It is only when they came running with Captain Born that I realised 
that one of the Security men had been wounded and when we loaded him, the teargas 
was already there.
	Immediately after we loaded him, I went back to the bakkie and the casspir 
because the teargas had at that stage, dispersed somewhat, it wasn't quite so bad.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How long did it take for the teargas, the smell of the teargas to 
become reduced to enable you to come to the minibus?

ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE: After the helicopter took off, I moved back to the combi.  And when I 
got there, there were already members there, so I would say from the time that I fled 
the teargas until the time we loaded Captain Born and I went back, it was 
approximately 8 - 10 minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Colonel, you are excused.

ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE: Mr Chairman, I would like to ask before I am excused, the question 
now arises why am I here today.
	And I would like to say to the Commission that firstly I am making this 
application for amnesty in the spirit of national unity and the promotion thereof, in 
order to find peaceful solutions and also to promote reconciliation.
	And also to move away from violent resistance politics in the future.  The 
offences about which I have doubt whether I was competent or whether it was lawful, 
are firstly that I believe that when we were shot at, I acted lawfully and that I had the 
authority to fire back.
	But, that I have doubt and I am in an ambivalent situation regarding the 
question of whether I exceeded my bounds.  This doubt is based on the fact that Dr 
De'Oliviera thought it necessary to investigate the matter and Archbishop Desmond 
Tutu has said on many occasions, where you have any doubt, you should rather apply 
for amnesty in the spirit of reconciliation to put all the facts on the table.
	The National Commissioner also thought it necessary to arrange a special 
occasion in Pretoria to put it to us that if we should have any doubt, that we should 
rather apply for amnesty in the spirit of national unity and reconciliation.
	Further Chairperson, from experience I know that courts take days and weeks 
to hear matters and it takes trial within a trial to determine whether we exceeded the 
bounds at a shooting incident, for instance.  And as far as a possible charge of 
obstructing the course of justice is concerned, I am very honest when I say to the 
Commission, that the handling of the inquest docket, I did not include all the  
(indistinct) of sequences in this docket, because I believed that that which I did include 
in the docket, in the inquest docket, was sufficient to enable the Presiding Officer to 
make a finding in this inquest.
	And if it should be found that I committed an obstruction of justice, I ask for 
amnesty for that in the spirit of the promotion of national unity and reconciliation.

ADV VISSER: Thank you Mr Erwee.

ADV VISSER: 1	A.J.G.

ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE: PIETERSBURG HEARING	AMNESTY/