Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-15

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: From the house where I was, one cannot see what was going on in the house which was being attacked, but one could only hear.  I heard gunshots.

CHAIRPERSON: In your application form on page 5 of the record, the bundle before us, you are saying that you had gone home and the people of your neighbourhood decided to attack your political opponents in order to take revenge over those people who were injured in the previous attack.  You say
"That is when I committed the crime."
Then on page 6 of the record, that's still part of your application form, it's paragraph 10 (b) you are saying that, the last three lines of that paragraph, you say:
"We were also aware that we were attacking Inkatha Freedom Party settlement."
Have you noticed that?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this your application form?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  We're going to take the tea adjournment at this stage for 15 minutes.  I think your lawyer will explain what, how the process of this Committee works and I think your lawyer will explain to you under what circumstances it is possible to approach the Committee for amnesty, but we'll adjourn for tea for 15 minutes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Loonat.

MS LOONAT: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Just to recap.  Mr Nkwanyana did say that he was on his way to visiting his sister and the child that was apparently in hospital.  I'll go on from there.

MS LOONAT: (cont.)
	Mr Nkwanyana you say that you heard gunshots.  Where were you at the time?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I was in a shebeen at Mrs Dlamini's house.

MS LOONAT: You said you were going to the hospital.  What were you doing at the shebeen?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: On my way home I met my mother and my mother told me that the child was in hospital in Ngwelezane.

MS LOONAT: So why didn't you go on to see her in the hospital?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I wanted to have a look on the damage in my house.

MS LOONAT: Go on.  What happened?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: On my way home, my home is near a shop.  I saw Mr Ketha Khuzwayo and Lana, then I decided to go to the shop and I didn't see any other persons there, I only saw them.

MS LOONAT: Could I just interrupt Mr Nkwanyana?  Please tell us first, when you were at the shebeen, what actually happened at the Shebeen?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I bought two beers and I sat there and I drank.  There was another lady from Izobo, a family and Msonela Manyawo.

MS LOONAT: And what were you all doing together?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: We were drinking, Msonela and myself.  As we were sitting there I heard gunshots.  First I heard gunshots, but the noise was not too loud and then later I heard another gunshot which was louder than the first one and then I left that place because I thought that something was not right.

MS LOONAT: Did you have a firearm on you at the time?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: No, I didn't.

MS LOONAT: Did you all run away from the shebeen, is that what you're saying, when the gunshots were heard?  Is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, we all ran away.  We were scattered.

MS LOONAT: Where were you going from there?  What was your plan?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I decided to go back where I was coming from because I was scared if other people were to come they were maybe going to kill me.

ADV BOSMAN: May I just interpose?  You say
"We all ran away."
Who are the all that ran away?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: There were people in that shebeen people who were working from a sugar cane field and they were there in that shebeen.  They all ran away.

ADV BOSMAN: Right.

MS LOONAT: You were saying something about going to a shop on your way back home.  Please carry on.

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: When I arrived at the shop, I found Ketha and Prescott Langa and Simunye Mthembu.  Next to that shop there is a house that belonged to Mthembu family.  I took one guy from Mthembu's family because they were also attacked, or his family had been attacked and I told him to accompany me.  We went to another house and we found my sister and the daughter-in-law of the Mthembu family.  I greeted them.

MS LOONAT: And what was your sister's name?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Olive Nkwanyana.

MS LOONAT: What was your discussion with her?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I greeted her and I asked her if my brother-in-law was present and also asked him if he was well.

MS LOONAT: Who is your brother-in-law?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Armand Sibiya.

MS LOONAT: That's the deceased, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: No.

MS LOONAT: Oh, I beg your pardon.  Who is Armand Sibiya, he's Olive's husband, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.

MS LOONAT: And what do you know about Sibiya's political activities?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: He was once a councillor in the area after the one who was elected as a councillor had left.

MS LOONAT: Which party?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: IFP.

MS LOONAT: What was your relationship with him?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: We had a good relationship.

MS LOONAT: In spite of the fact that you belonged to the ANC and he belongs to the IFP, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.

MS LOONAT: Was he an active member of the IFP, would you say?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes.

MS LOONAT: So you maintained a relationship with him because of your sister being his fiance, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.

MS LOONAT: Please go on from there.  What did you do thereafter?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Even though I do not remember quite well but Olive and myself, we talked and also the other lady who was with her, we talked with her and she was asking us about the situation in the area where we were staying.  Then we left the place.   Just before we arrived in the shop I decided not to go inside the shop because I realised that I didn't have enough money and then I told the guy I was with that he will tell them that I went to Ma Dlamini's house, or Mrs Dlamini's house.

MS LOONAT: Tell who?  You said tell them, who's them?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Ketha, Prescott and Themba Nkosi.

MS LOONAT: Did you know what Ketha and Prescott were doing that day in the shop?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: They were drinking cooldrink.

MS LOONAT: Were you aware that they were going to attack Mr Sibiya on that day?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I would like to put it this way, that usually in meetings, their names will come out as people who were harassing the community, or people whom the community didn't like but on that specific day I didn't know that they were going to attack.

MS LOONAT: Mr Nkwanyana, have you taken part in any actual faction fighting between the IFP/ANC parties?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes.

MS LOONAT: How many roughly?  A few, a lot, can you remember?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: I would say twice, but in both occasions whenever we had planned to launch an attack, we will arrive there after the people have been told by other people that we were coming to attack them.

MS LOONAT: So what you're saying is that in fact you did take part in these attacks but you were not successful because the people were pre-warned, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.

MS LOONAT: So if you were given instructions to take part, you would have taken part in any faction fighting, is that correct, between IFP and ANC?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.

MS LOONAT: Do you have any previous convictions?

CHAIRPERSON: How's that going to help us, Ms Loonat?

MS LOONAT: I'll withdraw that Mr Chairperson, thank you.
You did say that you had no training in firearms, is that correct?

OSMOND BEKISISA NKWANYANA: Yes, that's correct.