Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: You would like to have assistance?  We understand everything, your misery, your sufferings and everything what we've heard.  It's not just going to end here.  We are going to take it forward.  We are going to take it to the people who will come out with decisions.  Is your husband still working?

WITNESS:   No, they are on strike.

UNKNOWN: We thank you very much.  I would like to give to the Chairperson.

MR LAX: You mentioned that of the three members of the Maseko family two had died.  I am not just clear whether you mean that it was Bheki and your son, or whether it was Bheki and another person from that family that was killed as well on that day.  Perhaps you could clarify that for us please.

WITNESS:   I mean Bheki and Bhunu.  Those were the two who died.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Hlela, thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today.  You've told us a very sad story about the death of your son, and we have heard stories from many, many mothers, parents like yourself all over this country who have lost their children - particularly their children, and we extend our deep, deep sympathy to you.  We also note from your evidence that your husband was one of the Sarmcol workers, and you had the added suffering that was occasioned by the Sarmcol strike and all the violence and unrest that that led to.
We are not able, as you have heard me say this morning, to fulfil the requests that you have made in your statement.  You've said that you wish your children to be given scholarships, you want a pension, but we certainly can make recommendations to the Government that people like yourself should be assisted in some way, and we all have no doubt that the Government will assist people like yourself who are victims of human rights abuses.  
So thank you very much for coming in to give your evidence today, and we wish you strength and courage.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: The following witness is Mr Nelson Maseko.  Can you hear and understand me?

NELSON MASEKO: I can hear you.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible)  ... two separate stories today.  One relates to the murder of your brother, Jabulani, and the murder of Bhunu Hlela, who is the son of the lady who has just given evidence.  Your brother and Bhunu Hlela died in the same incident, which took place in Mpophomeni in April 1993.

NELSON MASEKO: Yes.

MR LYSTER: And you have also come to tell us about the killing of your son, Mlungisi Jerome Maseko.

NELSON MASEKO: Yes.

MR LYSTER: Who died in 1991 in Mpophomeni township.

NELSON MASEKO: That's true.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... stories could you please stand so that we can administer the oath.

NELSON MASEKO: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: I am going to ask my colleague, Mr Dlamini, to assist you in the giving of your evidence, and it may be appropriate if you tell us first about the death of your brother and of Bhunu Hlela, because we've just heard that evidence from Bhunu Hlela's mother, and thereafter go on to the death of your son.  Thank you very much.

MR DLAMINI: Good day, Mr Maseko.  Let me just start by explaining or clarifying this.  Is Bheki the same as Ernest?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR DLAMINI: When Bheki died he was 35 years old?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: Was he with Bhunu Hlela?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: As well as Jabulani Mngathi, who survived?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: How many are you at home?

WITNESS:   We are seven.  We were seven then.

MR DLAMINI: Are your parents still alive?

WITNESS:   My mother is still alive, my father died a long time ago.

MR DLAMINI: How is your mother?

WITNESS:   Ever since Bheki died her health deteriorated.

MR DLAMINI: Is there any help that she is getting from psychiatrists or psychologists?

WITNESS:   She does to go clinics.  She is very old.  She wasn't able to come here.

MR DLAMINI: Pass her greetings to her.  Tell her we sympathise with her.  Then we come to Bheki Maseko's family.  Was Bheki married at the time of his death?

WITNESS:   He got married and got divorced.  He does have kids.  They are with their grandmother.  There's two of them.

MR DLAMINI: How old are they?

WITNESS:   I think the other one is about eight years old, and the one after him is six years old.  They are both attending school.  I am paying for their schooling because I am the eldest.

MR DLAMINI: What about your brother's wife from whom he got divorced?

WITNESS:   She's working.

MR DLAMINI: Is she contributing towards supporting the children?

WITNESS:   No, the children are not hers.

MR DLAMINI: On this particular day according to the statement 11 people died in the very same manner and the same incident, and one of them is Bheki Maseko.  We got some testimony from Bhunu's mother, but we think you may be able to shed some light.  According to the information that you got what actually happened?

WITNESS:   I was at home round about six to seven.  Another brother of mine who is younger than me came to see me.  He said to me it looked as if something had happened at a neighbouring location.  My brother's name is David.  He said he had heard rumour that something had happened, and whilst I was at home I kept on hearing gunshots.  Luckily as I was just going out, heading for the direction where the gunshots were being heard, I came across a police van.  I ran to the police van to tell them that there's been gunshots and apparently something had happened.  And at that time the police were rushing to a scene where a person had died.  The police went there, they attended that person.  They took the person and loaded him into the van.  From there we went to my brother's place.  When we got there I found my brother lying on the ground.  He had been shot dead.  As I was passing, going into the house, I saw Bhunu lying on the ground.  He had also been shot.  Then police started taking details, taking photos, and they were taken, the corpses were taken away from the place.  I think that's where I will end.

MR DLAMINI: Up to the day of the trial when they said they had found the perpetrators, and on the day of the trial, according to your knowledge, what were the reasons for their killing?

WITNESS:   This is just a rumour that I heard, that at the time when there was rife gunshots they saw a person in the street.  He looked like he had been shot and he was lying on the ground.  Then he went to the police station to report that there had been a person who had been shot.  He wasn't sure whether the person was dead or not, but he was sure that the person was injured.  Now, he came back with the police to this person who was on the ground.  He left the police and proceeded to go home.  That's when he got shot.   We know in our community most of the problems start due to affiliating to certain or different political organisations.  Did your brother belong to any political organisation?   ---   Yes, he was a member.  He was a member of the ANC.

MR DLAMINI: According to you the people who were killed were they members of any political organisations?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have any clarity on that, because at that time there were these violent outbreaks.  You wouldn't know whether it was ANC or any particular group.  You wouldn't know, but there was always friction between the political groups.

MR DLAMINI: Can we say there was a problem between ANC members and another group?

WITNESS:   No, that region is controlled by ANC.

MR DLAMINI: Can we say there was a problem between members of the ANC and another political group?

WITNESS:   Yes, I think so.

MR DLAMINI: In your statement you are complaining about the manner in which the case was conducted.  You are talking about a certain Mr Kaneck who wrote a letter to the Attorney-General complaining about the handling of the matter.  Was Mngathi called in to give testimony?

WITNESS:   Yes, he did.  He was the main witness.