Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-11

MR MOTEPE: Well (a) is in tandem with his evidence, he does fall under that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but he doesn't say he was a member only.  Wasn't he under a duty to execute instructions and therefore would fall ...(indistinct) aptly under (d)?

MR MOTEPE: Well I was going one by one.  I had only started with (a), I was still coming to ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry to have interfered with your address whilst you were busy going through those subsections.

MR MOTEPE: As it pleases you.
	Indeed Madam Chair is correct, he does fall under 9(d) as well.  The other ones refer to employees of the State and are not relevant to this hearing.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything further that you would want to address us on, in terms of Section 3?

MR MOTEPE: I was indicating that under Section 3 in fact he qualifies under numerous of them.

CHAIRPERSON: In particular which one which has a direct bearing?

MR MOTEPE: (b).  We must remember that there were tensions at that time, the uprisings as one may refer to them, so (b) will be an issue.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOTEPE: (d) as well.  Primarily directed at the political opponent, that will fit.  And I believe (e) as well, because it ties in the question of a command, that he was following an order.  I think that is all that I wish to traverse at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, do you have anything that you wish to address us on?

MS THABETE: No, Madam Chair, and I have no objection to amnesty being granted.
NO ADDRESS BY MS THABETE
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: Having concluded the evidence in this application of Mr Makoe, this Committee will be in a position to pronounce its decision tomorrow morning at 09H30.  There is no need for Mr Makoe to be present when we do so.  However, I think mr Motepe should be around when we pronounce our decision in order to convey our decision to Mr Makoe without delay.
	It is also our duty to communicate to Mr Makoe the decision of this Committee and to advise our office in Cape Town.  We however would prefer that Mr Motepe who has been representing the interest of Mr Makoe, be also charged with that responsibility of communicating our decision directly to Mr Makoe.  
	Will that be convenient for you to do, Mr Motepe?

MR MOTEPE: I will try my utmost best, but the applicant is in Diepkloof Prison and I'm from Pretoria.  I'm not sure if prison authorities can also be asked to be here so that they can convey the orders of this Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying you will not be in a position to be here tomorrow at 09H30?

MR MOTEPE: No, I will here at 09H30, I was talking about conveying the orders of this court to the applicant.  But as I have already said, I will try my utmost best.  I was just adding that maybe the prison authorities should also be informed so that they can easily inform him.

CHAIRPERSON: We charge you, as Mr Makoe's lawyer, with that responsibility and we wouldn't charge prison authorities with any duty.   You are representing Mr Makoe's interest and we'd expect you to convey that decision to him and nobody else.

MR MOTEPE: I'll oblige.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, what is the next application to be heard today?

MS THABETE: The next application, Madam Chair, will be the applications of John Radebe and Fanie Mkhwanazi, to be heard together I think.

CHAIRPERSON: Are they all here?

MS THABETE: Yes, Madam Chair, they are.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that application opposed?

MS THABETE: Not to my knowledge, Madam Chair.  I had met with the victims, next of kin, on Monday and they said they would be here.  Some implicated persons have called me and I just need to prepare their names for the record.  They didn't indicate any intention to oppose.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say you met with the victims, did they indicate any intention whether they wanted to oppose or they did not want to oppose the application?

MS THABETE: They did not, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they specifically indicate to you that it was not their intention to oppose the application?

MS THABETE: Yes, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We'll take a tea adjournment and we will resume at quarter past eleven, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) Panel, Mr Makoe.
F I N D I N G
	This Committee is now ready to announce its decision in respect of the application brought by Levy Ramonana Makoe this morning.
	Mr Makoe applies for amnesty in respect of the murder of Annah Mingi Feni, committed on the 22nd of September 1992 at Sebokeng, as well as the unlawful possession of a CZ88 firearm and ammunition in contravention of Section 2 and 36 of Act 75 of 1969.
	After having heard the testimony of Mr Makoe and the supplementary affidavit handed in on his behalf, we are satisfied that he acted in accordance with an order issued by his unit commander, one called Ace Chanyela, that the deceased should be eliminated. 
	The Committee is further satisfied that the act took place within the context of the ongoing political violence between supporters of the ANC and those of the IFP during the period concerned in the Vaal Triangle, which violence was accepted as being common cause.  
	Accordingly the applicant complies with Section 20(1) of the Act and amnesty IS GRANTED for the acts referred to above.
	The Committee is of the opinion that the relatives of the deceased, Annah Mingi Feni, are victims as defined in the Act and are accordingly referred to the Committee on Reparation and Rehabilitation for consideration as such in terms of Section 26 of the Act.  That is our decision, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

FANIE ABRAHAM MKHWANAZI: AM 7190/97

CHAIRPERSON: We are supposed to proceed to hear the applications of Mr Mkhwanazi and Mr Radebe.  We have been advised in chambers that there is still a need for a further consultation by the legal representatives of both applicants, and that our Evidence Leader was still in the process of further consulting with a number of implicated persons in respect of those two applications.  We will therefore adjourn until 2 o'clock to enable all parties to consult properly, whereafter we shall resume our proceedings, thank you very much.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Moloisane, are we ready to commence with the application of, which applicant?
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MR LAX EXPLAINS MICROPHONES

MR LAX: Just repeat what you said please.

MS MOLOISANE: Madam Chair and Committee Members, I am in a position to commence with the application of Abraham Fanie Mkhwanazi.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the one to be found on page 176 of the bundle of documents before us?

MS MOLOISANE: That is correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you also representing Mr Radebe who is a co-applicant?

MS MOLOISANE: I do, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: The application that will be commenced with now - there is some terrible interference with our headphones, if that could be attended to, thank you.
	The application that we'll commence with is that of Mr Mkhwanazi, to be found on page 176.  Ms Thabete?  Ms Thabete, are we in a position to proceed with this application?

MS THABETE: Yes, Madam Chair, we are.

CHAIRPERSON: Have we served the relevant notices that we have to serve in terms of the Act?

MS THABETE: Yes, Madam Chair, we have served.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you give an indication as to the kind of notice served and upon whom that notice was served?

MS THABETE: Yes, Madam Chair.  Both Section 19(4) notices and announcements on the radio, and a newspaper announcement, publication was made.  I have received phone calls from a lot of, from all the victims next of kin, except Maletsatse Mahomo's next of kin because she doesn't have any anymore.
	I've received phone calls from interested persons and implicated persons.  I don't know whether Madam Chair would like me to read everybody's names who's actually been notified.