Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

REGINA M TLOU: That's what I really don't understand, because this Fader explained to me that this policeman is also somebody who is working with them.  So I don't know whether they were going to burn somebody else's house or the, but it's not this policeman's house.  So I don't know whether this policeman was involved with them or not.

YASMINE SOOKA: And after you buried Jimmy;  at the funeral, did Jimmy have an activist funeral?  Were you helped?  Normally when an activist dies, in a community, then usually all the comrades would come to assist the family to bury.  Did that happen with you as well?

REGINA M TLOU: No, it didn't, because the police came to us the previous night and then they told us that usually we Black people we do this thing called Melindela.  So they told us that we must not do that.  They are not going to allowing that.
 On the day of the funeral, the police were also there.  We were busy burying Jimmy there and the policeman who had been standing there one side, watching what was happening.  So they didn't allow it to happen like if a comrade is dead.

YASMINE SOOKA: I understand.  And did your family go to the police to report this matter, after you brought the body from the mortuary?

REGINA M TLOU: After we brought the body from the mortuary, the police told us that they will investigate the case how he died or what happened.  So they never came back to us.  So I was also afraid to ask them why they don't open a document or what, because I felt that because he died and he was going to burn somebody's house, maybe that is why they don't worry, because he was a comrade.

YASMINE SOOKA: And did you perhaps not hear in the community about whose house it was that they tried to burn,  or anything more about this incident?

REGINA M TLOU: No, I didn't hear anything and the only person who should have told me that is that friend of Jimmy, Fader. And if I confront him to ask him, he don't want to talk to me, he don't want to talk to the family.  So we don't know what actually happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: Does he still live in the community?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes, he still lives here, but now at the present moment he's not here.  I heard somebody saying he's staying in Nelspruit now.

YASMINE SOOKA: And this policeman, do you know if he's still working in the ...

REGINA M TLOU: No, I don't think so.  I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

YASMINE SOOKA: And was there anything in the newspaper about this incident?

REGINA M TLOU: It was only in the Middelburg Observer.  It was in the Middelburg Observer, this incident, but I didn't read it.  I only heard people said, your Jimmy's story is in the Observer.  So I was not interested to read it, because I knew what happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

REGINA M TLOU: Thanks.

YASMINE SOOKA: I'm going to pass back to the Chairperson, because the other Commissioners will ask you some questions as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Prof Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  I just want to ask about your parents.  Are they still alive?

REGINA M TLOU: In fact, Jimmy's mother is alive, but she was married in, next door, she was not staying with Jimmy.  So we are raised by our grandparents.  We were raised by our grandmother and my grandmother is still alive.  And Jimmy's mother is also alive.  So she's here now.  After, she came home after his death.

PROF MEIRING: And are there other brothers and sisters or were you the two only children?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes, I've got two brothers.

PROF MEIRING: Two brothers.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Regina, can you tell us a little bit more about this person, Fader, about what you know?  I mean his political activities or anything?

REGINA M TLOU: This Fader was also politically active with Jimmy and he was his bosom friend.  They were very, very close.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was he much older than Jimmy or were they the same age?

REGINA M TLOU: I think they're the same age.  So they were bosom friends;  they were very close.  Most of the time, they were together.

RUSSELL ALLY: And he refuses to speak to you?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: He refuses to speak to you about this incident?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was this the first time that they had gone out on such a mission?  Because you said that you did protect him a bit from the ...

REGINA M TLOU: According to my knowledge it was the first time, because he approached me and asked me to go with Jimmy.  So there were times when he didn't sleep at home.  So I didn't know whether they were on this missions or what.  But when he came back the following morning, he just tell me, I slept with Fader at Fader's home.  So I don't know whether it was the first time, or not.  According to my knowledge it was the first time.

RUSSELL ALLY: So this was the first time that they actually told you that they were going to go and burn a house?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: But you don't know if they were involved in anything before that?  You just ...

REGINA M TLOU: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Regina, just one question from my part.  If we want to proceed with this, it seems to me clear that we will have to contact Fader.

REGINA M TLOU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Would it be possible for you to, in the meantime, see if you can't find a contact address or telephone number or any way in which we can get there?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes, I'll try, because I will try.  I'll try my best, because my concern is I just want to know the truth, what happened,  why he died, why was he burned, I just want to know that.  So I'll try to find his address.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you then, if you do find his address, phone us at our office?  You have the number?  Or you can get it from us after the hearing here.

REGINA M TLOU: Yes, I will.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Sooka again.

YASMINE SOOKA: Regina, you mentioned that there was a group of them.  All Jimmy's other friends,  do they still live in the township?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Are they contactable?

REGINA M TLOU: Yes, they are.  I think some of them are here.  I saw two of them here.  So they are.

YASMINE SOOKA: Okay.  Because I think it would help us if they were able to give us further statements on this matter.  Because I'm sure they know about what that mission was about.  And if any of them are here in the hall today, we'll appeal to them to come forward and furnish us with the information in the meantime until we're able to contact Fader as well.  Thank you.

REGINA M TLOU: Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: It was clear from the murmur in the audience that there are indeed some of his friends at the time.  If I may appeal to them, please, to also meet up with some of our statement-takers at the back.  And whatever information you can add, please leave with them.  We need some contact and assistance if we want to follow through on the information that we have.
 Thank you very much for coming to us.  Thank you for sharing with us.  We hope we'll be able to get nearer to some of the truth surrounding the death of Jimmy.  Thank you very much.
 Ladies and gentlemen, we will break.  In terms of the programme, it's for half an hour.  I would appeal to you that you all have your seats again by 12 o'clock, so we can proceed with the other witnesses.  
 But get out into the sun and stretch your legs and get the blood circulation going.
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