Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-05

MR ZILWA: So you took as I understand you, you took the comrades from Port St Johns to these two men.  I suppose you were in the company of Mxhiza when you proceeded with these men, because he was the one who knew him?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: Alright.  Please carry on.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: On the arrival to the man, of course they had the two 9 mm pistol, but the two comrades did not want to give the arms to comrade Hermans and Guleni.  Instead, they also wanted to join us for the operation.

MR ZILWA: Now, here to my understanding there were about five or six of you.  Let's clarify the position of Mxhiza.  Was he also going to join the operation or all that he was about to do was to show you these comrades who actually had the firearms, or was he also participating in the operation, that is Mxhiza?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: To me, initially it was interpreted as if Mr Mxhiza would show the two people. According to my own memory, I don't remember a stage where Mxhiza was claiming to go there before meeting the two comrades, but at the time now when the comrades were saying no, they wanted to join us, they cannot give the arms, it is then that I really come to an understanding that even Mxhiza was interested to go there, to join us.

MR ZILWA: So in all you ended up being about eight people?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: yes.

MR ZILWA: Namely the three of you from Flagstaff, Hermans, Guleni, Mxhiza and now these two others that were joining you?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, we were eight.

MR ZILWA: You were eight.  All right, please carry on.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: We decided not to waste the time, but that was really uncomfortable to us from Flagstaff, but we decided not to waste the time because we wanted to pull this operation within that atmosphere.  I mean before the memorial service, within that stage where the whole people of South Africa were really angry, so that it could be understandable that it is aiming at retaliation.
	So, we wanted not to waste time, but we went for the operation.

MR ZILWA: Right, please give us in detail.  Now you are in Majola, you have met these two comrades from whom you wanted to borrow the arms, they have refused to give you their arms, they want to go and participate themselves.
	Now, take it from there and tell us in detail what happened.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words describe the operation, how did you get there, what happened.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Okay.  As we have already agreed that we should go, eight of us, we went there.  On the way we really ...

CHAIRPERSON: You went where?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: We went to the Gomolo Coast.  Gomolo is the coast where the two comrades told us that these people who were infiltrating Port St Johns were using that coast to plan their operation.  We were on the way now to that Gomolo place.

MR ZILWA: Could you give us some time frames, approximately what time of the day was this when you proceeded and what mode of transport did you use?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: We used the bakkie which belonged to Vuyani.  The time, it was about eleven.  It was not in the afternoon, ten or eleven, but before midday.
	We went there.  On the way we came up with a decision that we should do sort of a planning in terms of our modus operandi, but unfortunately we were unable, because most of us were not familiar with the terrain.  Now we really decided to proceed and then surveil the area at the time and then plan how to attack it.
	So, we went there, we stopped at a certain area which was almost hidden to the people.  We told some of our comrades to go and surveil the area, but myself, I was not the one who went for the surveillance.
	I think it was Pumelele Hermans, Fundisile Guleni and Vuyani Nyalukana who went and surveilled the area.  They came up with an information that there were no whites there, but they had an information which they got from the people who were doing some job there, that at a certain bungalow or a cottage, the occupants of the cottage have gone to another coast, they would be back on that afternoon.

MR ZILWA: Let me see if I understand you correctly, so what you did before actually arriving at the settlement or at the bungalows, you stopped out of sight and you sent these comrades you have mentioned, to case the joint, so to speak, and they went there to find out what the position was, and they returned to you with a report that you have mentioned?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: Okay, please carry on.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: We agreed to wait for those whites.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, your plan of retaliation, was that by plan that it would be directed at people of white skin?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, basically our plan was going to be directed at the people of white skin, because according to our own analysis, that would make no sense to the government if we would target the black enemies.
	We agreed that, also the black enemies who were really against the revolution, but at that time, we were according to our plan, we were forced now to hit on white colour, because we wanted to convey the message to the government.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand you correctly then that by targeting the black enemy, it would not have the desired effect on the government?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Proceed.

MR ZILWA: Did that choice have anything with the colour of skin of the person who had assassinated the leader, comrade Chris Hani?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Can you repeat the question please?

MR ZILWA: Did your choice of retaliating against people of the white skin, did that have anything to do with the fact that Chris Hani had reportedly been assassinated by a white man?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, that was the reason why we really targeted the white people.

MR ZILWA: Okay, now you have told us that you have decided to, after receiving the Intelligence that the occupants of the bungalows had gone fishing, you decided to wait for them.  By then, had you formulated a plan as to how you were to carry out the attack?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, we were already now.  At the time we get the report?

MR ZILWA: Yes, at the time you waited, waited for the targets, had you formulated a plan as to how you were going to hit the targets?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Our plan firstly would be based on the information, on the surveillance.  Now, immediately we got the report, it is then that we really planned and then we agreed to wait first for this people to come and then at the time that they were within our sight, it is then that now we were going to deploy, because that terrain was - the sight of the car would be seen at a long distance.  We were able to see the car at a very long distance.
	We waited to see the car, because it was a remote area, not many cars would go there, so we were sure that any car to come there, would be the one that we were really waiting for.  Now, we saw a vehicle at a distance, but a far distance.
	Now, we agreed that I, myself, Guleni and the one Timan should go for an ambush.  We left the comrades in the car, the others, just at the side of the car.  Then we moved for a certain distance, where we took our position.

MR ZILWA: Yes, let's get this clear.  So the three of you went for ambush positions, that is yourself, Guleni and this other man you mentioned, Timan yes.
	Now, Guleni, how was he armed and where had he obtained his firearm if he was armed?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Oh yes, it happened that Guleni took the firearm off another comrade, the one that I cannot remember his name.  The one which we met there at Majola.  That comrade gave Guleni his arm, so it was the firearm that belonged to that comrade, the one which was used by Guleni.

MR ZILWA: I see, so the three of you went to take ambush positions, while the other five remained in or next to the motor vehicle?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: Okay, please carry on.