Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-09

MR ROUSSOUW: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  The next applicant is Mr Bosch.  I ask that the witness be sworn in.

I D BOSCH: (sworn states)

MR ROUSSOUW: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, you will find the application of Mr Bosch from page 1 to 21 in bundle 1 of Bhila.
	Mr Bosch, have you got that application in front of you?

I D BOSCH: I have it.

MR ROUSSOUW: Do you confirm the contents of your statement on page 1?

I D BOSCH: That's correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: Regarding your career in the South African Police, can you confirm that in 1977 you joined the South African Police at the uniform branch in Pretoria?

I D BOSCH: That is correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: And thereafter in 1979 you were transferred to the Trade Union desk of the Security Branch?

I D BOSCH: That's correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: And in the early '80's, in 1982 you were transferred to the Intelligence Unit in Johannesburg?

I D BOSCH: That is correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: And then in 1983 you returned to the Intelligence Unit at headquarters in Pretoria, is that correct?

I D BOSCH: Correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: And in 1985 you went to Vlakplaas.

I D BOSCH: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: You left Vlakplaas for the Directorate of Covert Collections and you worked there until 1993, is that correct?

I D BOSCH: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch you apply for amnesty and the affidavit which you find on page and which you signed on page 7 was a prescribed form which you completed?

I D BOSCH: That is correct.

MR ROUSSOUW: And on page 2 you refer to the incidents for which you apply for and the statement you made to the Attorney-General, is that correct?

I D BOSCH: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: And this was supplemented with regard to the specific incidents and the extract from that supplementary statement you would find on page 11 to page 21.  That deals specifically with the Bhila incident, is that correct?

I D BOSCH: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: And just to get clarity, please have regard to page 5 of the bundle where you refer to the question as to whether you gained anything financially or otherwise, in this incident, the Bhila incident, did you gain financially in any way?

I D BOSCH: No, Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: You did not receive a cash bonus in connection with this incident?

I D BOSCH: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, could I take you to page 11 or excuse me, page 13.  You apply for amnesty and more specifically as an accomplice to murder ...(no English translation) for the death of an ANC member at the Natal South Coast during 1986 or 1987, is that correct?

I D BOSCH: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: It would seem that it is the incident of Bhila?

I D BOSCH: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: At the stage when you completed this affidavit you did not have any knowledge of the identity of the deceased? ...(transcriber's own translation)

I D BOSCH: No, Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: You are also not sure of the date of the murder?

I D BOSCH: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, can you just read on page 14 what your knowledge concerning this incident is?

ADV PRIOR: Sorry, Mr Chairman, Mr Roussouw is going a little fast, the interpreters or the translators have just indicated if he could slow down please.

MR ROUSSOUW: I'm sorry, Mr Chairman.
MR BOSCH
"During the period '86/'87 myself with Frank McCater and one, Rosslee as well as members of Vlakplaas deployed.  During this time we were called in by Colonel Andy Taylor of the Durban Security Branch to go on a certain day to a white neighbourhood in the south of Durban."

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, can I interrupt you there?  This request to go to this specific neighbourhood, was that given to you directly by Colonel Taylor or were you informed of it?

I D BOSCH: I was informed about it, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: You heard the evidence here that a meeting took place or a gathering between Colonel Taylor, Mr McCarter and Mr Rosslee, you weren't involved in such a meeting?

I D BOSCH: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: Please continue.
MR BOSCH
"None of us were informed at that stage what our instruction would be.  Along with Frank McCarter and Rosslee I drove in a Ford Sierra behind Lawrie Wasserman of the Security Branch, Durban to this suburb.  It was early in the morning when we arrived at this place.  There was a municipal park where there was a red brick building."

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, you heard the evidence that it was a Railway Police shooting range, did you know at that stage that it was a shooting range? ...(transcriber's own translation)

I D BOSCH: No, Mr Chairperson, I did not know what place that was.

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, while you were present in Durban, did you know the area?

I D BOSCH: Not at all Chairperson.

MR ROUSSOUW: How many times did you yourself work in Durban as part of a Vlakplaas contingency?

I D BOSCH: There might have been incident before this incident or after the incident but I usually worked in Eastern Transvaal.  ...(transcriber's own translation)

MR ROUSSOUW: Proceed.
MR BOSCH
"At that stage members of the Durban Security Branch, except for Lawrie Wasserman was there.  Except for Lawrie Wasserman there were also two members of the Durban Security Branch which were known to me as Spyker and one, Michael.  I could not recall if the detainee was already there in the park when we arrived there or whether he was brought by the black members of Durban Security Branch later but a black man who was handcuffed was present there during the course of the day."

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, you also heard the evidence that this particular person was handed over or was intercepted after he was taken from a certain place by Askaris, were you present, can you remember it?

I D BOSCH: Mr Chairperson, I could have been present but I cannot remember it at all.
"The person was clearly a detainee and sat and waited with us the whole day in the park.  I waited there the whole day without me being informed as to what the purpose of our presence there was.
		When it started getting dark the detainee was loaded into a mini-bus and I went with Michael, Spyker as well as a black member of Vlakplaas whom I think was Sergeant Aubrey Mgade, Frank Mc Carter, Rosslee as well as Wasserman.  A member of Durban Security Branch drove the vehicle and we left the park.  
		I remember that we drop up a steep incline for a long time.  I guess we drove about an hour or an hour and a half and later we arrived in an out-of-town rural are where there were huts.
		We got a flat tyre which necessitated us to stop and put the spare wheel on.  After this we drove further and after a while we stopped again.  The detainee was then taken out of the mini-bus and we started walking away from the vehicle." 
		...(transcriber's own translation)

MR ROUSSOUW: Mr Bosch, at any stage while you were driving in this bus, did you converse, did anybody tell you where you were on your way to?

I D BOSCH: No, Mr Chairman, we did not talk in the bus, it was very quiet.
MR ROUSSOUW
"At this stage I didn't know what the planning was but I suspected that the prisoner might be killed.  We walked a while and I noticed that were going towards the precipice in the cliff.
		It was very dark at that stage and down below I could see the lights of certain residential houses.
		We came to a standstill at the precipice and Michael and Spyker took a bag and placed it over the prisoner's head and they also removed his handcuffs.  At that stage I realised that the prisoner was going to be shot.
		Frank McCarter and Rosslee shot the prisoner through the head afterwards.  Both of them used a .25 Baby Browning pistol.  Afterwards the prisoner's body was thrown off the precipice by Michael and Spyker."