Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-11-02

MR SAPELE: I joined the PAC in Krugersdorp at the prison.  I was recruited by Borowsky Masilela, a member of the PAC.  He indicated that I should go to Zimbabwe.  I agreed and I did as agreed, that I should break from the prison.  We took some money from the reception and I was later on arrested.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Sapele, can you tell the Committee how did you escape from jail, how did you plan to escape from jail, in details.   Please tell the Committee, they were not there, all of us we don't know what actually happened.  How did you come to this decision to escape from jail?  Tell the Committee that?

MR SAPELE: Boris and I had a discussion and we agreed that I should join him so that we can become, so that I can become part of the PAC.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do to escape, how did you escape?

MR SAPELE: We killed a police and we fled.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How did you flee?  You killed the police, what did you do after killing the police?  Why did you kill the policeman?

MR SAPELE: The police did not want to give us the keys to the prison and we managed to overpower him and ultimately we took some money from the reception.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, before you proceed.  You say you killed a policeman because he didn't want to give you the keys, do you mean, was it actually a policeman you killed or was it a prison warder?

MR SAPELE: It was a prison warder.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Are you saying to this Committee that this prison warder was having keys of the jail which can access you outside the jail?

MR SAPELE: Yes, the keys would actually enable us to access the reception, from where we would be in the position to obtain other keys to other gates.

MR MBANDAZAYO: So after killing this policeman, you managed to get the keys which you used to go to the reception?

MR SAPELE: Yes, that is correct, we went to the reception with the keys and we ...

MR MBANDAZAYO: What did you do on your arrival at the reception?

MR SAPELE: Pardon?

MR MBANDAZAYO: What did you do on your arrival at the reception?

MR SAPELE: We took some money once we were at the reception and we also took the keys that would enable us to gain access to the outside.  We exited the prison and we were pursued by the police, or should I say the prison warders apprehended us outside the prison.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Sapele, I notice from your application you say that a police officer was injured, you don't talk about killing a prison warder in your application and now you say that you killed him, what is the position?

MR SAPELE: Here I am referring to the offence that I'm talking about where a policeman died is actually a matter that I came across in Court.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't quite follow, Mr Mbandazayo, I was under the impression that he said that he killed a warder who he referred to a policeman, in order to get the keys to get into reception to get money to get out and now he's talking about killing a policeman in the courtroom.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Let me try and lead him in a way that - but my understanding is that he came across at Court that this policeman died, the prison warder.  He was aware in Court.  Let me get it from here for him to confirm.
	At the time you wanted these keys from this policeman, when you left him was he dead or was he injured?

MR SAPELE: When we left he was still alive.  We only heard when we were arrested that he had died, that is the prison warder.

CHAIRPERSON: Now if that is the case, Mr Sapele, why then do you only apply for, why don't you apply for murder in your amnesty application?

MR SAPELE: There is one policeman who died and there are other policemen who got injured at the reception.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, if I may clarify.  I think the reason when I went through with him was that they were acquitted of murder in the High Court, of the policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, continue.

MR SAPELE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now let's go the reception.  You are now at the reception, what did you do at the reception?  Can you tell the Committee how many were you when you were doing this?  You have mentioned Masilela who is your co-applicant, were only two of you involved in the whole thing?

MR SAPELE: There were 26 of us when we arrived at the reception.  We took some cash from the safe as well as the keys and we exited the prison.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Tell the Committee, you arrived at the reception, I know that you took keys and money, how did you do that?  How many people were at the reception when you arrived and what did you do to those people?

MR SAPELE: We apprehended the two policemen who were at the reception, we opened up the safe and we retrieved the money that was inside the safe, as well as the keys and we went out.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you told the Committee that your  intention of the escaping, according to your plan with Masilela, was to go outside the country, why did you take money, not the keys so that you can run away and go?

MR SAPELE: It was an instruction from Boris Masilela that we should take the money so as to enable us to travel or to use it to travel to wherever we wanted   to.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now after you had taken the money, what happened?

MR SAPELE: We were arrested just outside the prison, after we had taken the money as well as the keys.  We were brought back to the prison.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How many of you were arrested?

MR SAPELE: 19 of us but the rest escaped, I think there were 9.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct that you were charged for escaping and also of murder and robbery?

MR SAPELE: Yes, that is correct, murder, armed robbery as well as escaping from lawful custody.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee how many of you were convicted of murder and escape and also armed robbery?

MR SAPELE: The 19 were found not guilty of murder, I was found guilty of robber, armed robbery because I was in possession of the cash.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Are you telling the Committee that you are the only person who was found guilty of armed robbery?

MR SAPELE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And the others were convicted of escaping?

MR SAPELE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you have applied for amnesty, can you tell the Committee, you have ...(indistinct) to the Committee that you were in prison, can you tell the Committee when you joined the PAC in prison, why were you in prison?

MR SAPELE: I was a follower of the PAC and at the time I came across Borowsky I was already an avid follower of the PAC but not a card-carrying member.

CHAIRPERSON: The question, Mr Sapele, the question asked by Mr Mbandazayo was, when you met Mr Masilela in prison, why were you in prison?

MR SAPELE: Theft.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you were convicted of theft and you were serving sentence, what was your sentence, six years, am I correct?

MR SAPELE: Yes, I found guilty and I was given a sentence of six years.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you are applying for amnesty before the Committee, can you tell the Committee why should you be granted amnesty for escaping from prison and armed robbery in prison?

MR SAPELE: I was asking the Committee to give me amnesty because I committed the said deeds.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, the Committee knows that you committed the offence but what is the reason why they should give you the amnesty for that?

MR SAPELE: The reason is that Boris Masilela instruction me as my commander.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now can you tell the Committee, would you have committed escape from prison and committed armed robbery had you not been recruited by Boris Masilela?

MR SAPELE: I would not have committed any of the said deeds or the deeds that I was found guilty of having committed.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all at this stage, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.
	Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions to put to the witness?