Special Hearings — Children's Hearings — 1997-05-22

MARY BURTON: Perhaps just before I put any questions, I would like to thank you very much for what you have said and for having come to us in spite of the difficulties that it has caused for you.  I think we are terribly conscious of what a lot we put people through when we ask them to talk to the Commission, firstly, in private and then, secondly, in public.  Many of us here will remember that time extremely well, the 15th of October is, of course, also the date of the Trojan Horse and that is what we have been talking about the two previous days.  So those of us who lived through those, that year and that period in the Cape Peninsula remember very vividly your own experience and that of those who were with you and I think we really affirm the kind of leadership role that you and other young people played at the time and the way in which whole communities were mobilised through what you did and in support for you at the time.  So it had a very galvanising effect on people and, in spite of the awfulness of that time, I think of the things that it did was bring us all together and give us a sense of purpose and a very clear vision of what we were aiming to achieve and the problem, I think, sometimes now is that that purpose seems to be dissipated.  I think of the way in which the whole Pandy family was also involved at that time and they are one of the groups of people who are identified as having made such a strong contribution.
 I do not really have very many questions to ask and I notice in your statement to us that one of the things that you hope can be done is to have the criminal record expunged from your identity and your documents and I think that is something that many people have asked us, because, on the one hand, they are proud of what they did, it is not a question of wanting that record to be taken away, but they do not want to be seen as having been criminals for the part that they played and it is something that we will be taking up and I hope, also, that we will be able to ensure that you are helped with counselling to fulfil the role that I am sure still lies ahead for you in our society.  Are there other questions?

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Dee.  It is really just a comment.  I observe that there are many children today, some of whom come from backgrounds that would never have understood what happened in those years.  I am not quite sure how to convey to them the message, because your own emotions conveyed the hurts and the pain, but I think there is another part of it that we should address conveying the understanding to try and make them understand.  Earlier on Molo Songololo read to us a list of items that they had been attending to, education, health and one of the things that they did was to get statements from children from various backgrounds.  There is a statement read from a child in Sea Point, at a Sea Point high school and one of the things that she said or he said, the girl or boy said was something that suggested a judgement on the children that came from a school in a black area.  Now my concern is that many children do not understand what you went through.  They can see your hurt and pain, because you are sharing it with us today, but I think one of the challenges to organisations like Molo Songololo and others present today is to convey a sense of understanding to many children who hear what is going on today, but have no sense of understanding, no sense of grasping what it actually meant, what was going on.
 It is possible that they may live today with different, know and understand that you were hurt and you felt the way you did when you were in prison, but not knowing what the full background of all of that was and I think that, perhaps, it is really more an appeal to organisations such as Molo Songololo to bring this understanding, understanding about your experience, what it meant, why you were involved in what you were doing and why it is now that you are going through so much pain to help children understand.  Even those children who come from the same background that you do.  Thank you Dee.

CHAIRPERSON: Dee, before I ask Mary just to conclude, I want to say that I think very often we do cope when we are under that terrible stress and it is only some time later when we, kind of, have the space to break down, as it were,  that we then are able to really look back and truly experience the horror of what it was that we were going through at the time.  So what you are feeling now is not weakness or inappropriateness, it is really quite normal and I do hope that, through your briefer, we will be able to arrange for some emotional support for you.

MARY BURTON: Before I close I would like to ask you if there is anything else you want to say.

DEE DICKS: There is nothing that I want to say.

MARY BURTON: Then, once again, I would like to thank you very much.  I sense that you are here not only representing yourself and your own experience, but that of those who were with you at the time and we value very much your courage and your leadership in coming forward to talk to us.  Thank you.