Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I told them that I got this information from my comrades who know Temba and also that Temba's actions made a lot of suspicions and that's why I refused this question of Section 29.

MR JORDI: How did this interrogation terminate, what event happened?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: What happened was, that very day they took me to Morrocca Police station because they said in Protea they didn't have female cells.  I slept there - sorry, during that time - towards the end of the interrogation, their phone rang in the very same interrogation office and what happened was that my interrogator told me that
"Do you Euvodia, do you know what they are saying over the phone"?
and I said: 
"No, I don't know"
He said: 
"They say Temba has been arrested"
I said: 
"where"
He said: 
"In Groblersdal"
and he could see that I didn't believe what he was saying.
He said to me:
"No, I'm going to ask him to bring Temba here tomorrow and you're going to see him"

MR JORDI: Did you see him the following day??

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, I did.

MR JORDI: During your interrogation you spoke to a Lieutenant Augustine, is that right?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MR JORDI: What did you discuss with him?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Because he was my interrogator he was busy asking me questions and in some of them he wanted to know about the reaction of Mrs Mandela when I arrived at her home for the first time and explained myself and also explained the question of Temba's suspicions.
 He wanted to know the reaction of Mrs Mandela at that time when I said those things but then I couldn't divulge that reaction to him because I knew they were the police at that time and that was apartheid, I was afraid that they would use my name against Mrs Mandela.

MR JORDI: What was Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's reaction to what you divulged to her regarding Temba?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I could see from her face that she was shocked because she even excused herself for a few minutes from that meeting after I explained the whole thing.

MR JORDI: You say that a phone call was made to say that Temba had been arrested and he was brought to Protea Police Station the following day?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MR JORDI: Did you see him the following day?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MR JORDI: What condition was he in when you saw him?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: He was handcuffed on the feet and also on the hands and I  found him seated on the chair with those handcuffs and the security police were surrounding the four walls of the room. I entered and then they asked Temba to identify me
They asked him: 
"Do you know this woman"?
He said: 
"Yes"
And they said: 
"Who's this woman"?
And he said: 
"Euvodia Nkadimeng"
And they said: 
"Your girlfriend"
And he said: 
"No"

MR JORDI: Did you think at any stage that you were Temba's girlfriend?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: No, I didn't take my affair with Temba of being a love affair because I was on a mission of exposing this person due to my comrades' in prison instructions.

MR JORDI: Can you describe when you last saw Temba?  In what circumstances did you see him?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.  Temba was assaulted, I could see there was blood on the lips and then what happened the very last moment was that after he identified me in that interrogating room, they never asked me any questions about that and then they just took us together with Temba in a private car to Middleburg Police Station.
 When we arrived in Middelburg, they took Temba for - before that, I complained about hunger to the security and then they told me that they did not have money but they would send someone to the police station to find money to buy food.   Temba offered me a pie, it was in his pocket and then he asked me to take it out as he was handcuffed and they took Temba for a few minutes into the police station and then thereafter they took him to another car and that was my last time I saw Temba.

MR JORDI: I understand that you heard that he had been killed whilst in police custody and that Colonel de Kock was linked to his death, is that right?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, I read it in the Sunday Times.

MR JORDI: Thank you Miss Nkadimeng.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Hanif?

MR VALLY: Miss Nkadimeng, when you went to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's house and you informed her that Mr Johannes Temba Mabotha was an informer, were you at that stage aware of - in those time and we're talking about 1988/1989, as to how alleged informers would be treated by political activists?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, I would say.

MR VALLY: And can you tell us what you would have expected or what you knew would happen to alleged informers?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I usually read about that, that they were killed.

MR VALLY: Will you repeat that please?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I usually read from the press that when comrades get informers they  kill them.

MR VALLY: Did anything happen to Mr Mabotha at Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's house when you were staying there for a month?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: No, nothing happened, actually he was treated more like a comrade than an informer.

MR VALLY: Were you surprised at this?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, too much surprised because that's what I never expected.

MR VALLY: There are certain other issues that I want to place before the Commission. At Colonel Eugene de Kock's trial - this is not a question for you Miss Nkadimeng, these are just some things I want to place before the Commission.  At Colonel Eugene de Kock's trial he does make mention of a Mr Johannes Mabotha who was apparently executed by him and subsequently who's body was blown up.  I'm advised that he has also made an amnesty application in connection with Mr Mabotha's death.
 I also want to place on record that Captain Daniel Potgieter had made an application for amnesty because in Colonel Eugene de Kock's trial, Colonel Eugene de Kock stated that Mr Johannes Mabotha had been handed to him by Captain Jan Potgieter with the instructions to do away with him.  Captain Potgieter in his amnesty application denies this, he says he merely handed over Mr Johannes Mabotha to Colonel de Kock to look after him. 
  But we've got it on record and the amnesty application of Mr Jan Potgieter is available and so is the trial record of Colonel Eugene de Kock - the relevant portion of the trial record.  I have no further questions of this witness Archbishop.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr Semenya?

MR SEMENYA: Thank you Chairperson.
 Ma'am can you tell me what human rights violations involving the Mandela Football Club or Mrs Mandela are you testifying about?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I won't say anything because when I was there I didn't see anything happening about maybe the assaults or whatever.

MR SEMENYA: But why are you here?  That's my question.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Okay.  The reason I'm here is because my own human rights were violated.  At that time I was supposed to be at college doing a third year, I couldn't for two years because in '88 I spent five months in detention and again during my release - I was released during the year and I was restricted.
 The following year when I tried to arrange again to go to school Temba came, that was 1989 and I was detained again for five months and going to court and appearing in court every month.  Mind you, I was charged with crossing the restriction orders and that charge I accepted because it's what I did and I did it under pressure.
 I appeared in court every month for five months but I ...[intervention]

MR SEMENYA: Can I interrupt you Ma'am?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Pardon?

MR SEMENYA: Can I interrupt you?

MR VALLY: Mr Chair, could I interrupt Mr Semenya?

CHAIRPERSON: Who is interrupting whom?  Yes?