Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-12

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Let me explain this.  Banbani is known in the Mpumalanga area.  I do not know about this incident.

MR NGUBANE: Now I'll just refer you to a selected incident and hear whether you know anything about those.  Or before I do that, your operations did they extend as far as the area called Mophela, M-o-p-h-e-l-a?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, my group operated inside the township.

MR NGUBANE: So you wouldn't know about the incident at Mophela and at a place called Mkhambathini, that's M-k-h-a-m-b-a-t-h-i-n-i and the area called Mamkhumbane, that's M-a-m-k-h-u-m-b-a-n-e?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: As I have explained before I worked or operated from Unit 1 to Unit 6.

MR NGUBANE: Now you gave your evidence about the attack on the house of Stembiso Nglovu.  Is it correct that he is your neighbour?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes he is my neighbour.

MR NGUBANE: And Mrs Nglovu, is it correct that when you were at training at Caprivi you - sorry - when you were in Cape Town, you used to phone him now and again, Mrs Nglovu?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Do you mean Koeberg, Mr Ngubane?  Do you mean Koeberg when you say Cape Town?  Koeberg or Cape Town?

MR NGUBANE: Well my instructions are that when he phoned he said he was in Cape Town, yes.

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I would be phoning my family when I was in Koeberg for training.

MR NGUBANE: You didn't phone Mrs Nglovu at some stage?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I did not call her.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have a telephone at your family home?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether the Nglovu's had a telephone at their home?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes they had a telephone at that time.

MR NGUBANE: So according to you there was no intimate - well not to use the word intimate - but there was no friendly telephone conversations between you and Mrs Nglovu when you were away from home?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Mrs Nglovu was my mother's friend.  What I am trying to explain is that I would be phoning them at their home, in fact phoning my family at their home and they would call my mother from home, so my family would come to speak to me on the phone from Nglovu's place.

MR NGUBANE: Yes Mr Hlongwane, why I'm asking you this is that Mrs Nglovu is very concerned about the fact that you attacked her house whereas in fact she felt she had all along been under the impression that you were friends and if there was anything evil that was about to befall her you would rather than attack her, you would tip her off.  What do you want to say to her?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: As I have explained before, I am here to tell the truth.  I think Mrs Nglovu herself knows that there was a Skyline that we were targeting.  That Skyline used to be at her house.  The boys would come to her house and her car was used to fetch boys and other things and that is how we eventually became enemies.

MR NGUBANE: You see Mr Hlongwane, the - do you know the people that belonged to the Indangani family, Nkosinat Indangani, Siphiso Indangani and Roderick Indangani?  Do you know those people?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: The Indangani that I know stays in Unit 3.

MR NGUBANE: What I'm driving at is I'm instructed that Siphiso Indangani was killed and Roderick Indangani was also killed and Nkosinat Indangani disappeared.  Do you know anything about that incident?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I do not know about that attack.

MR NGUBANE: And Sipho Ngoyi - do you know anything about him?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I do not know such a person.  I was here up to 1988.  Maybe if I had dates it would be helpful.

MR NGUBANE: No, that's fine, I just want to - because there are suspicions that you were involved in these things.  We don't have concrete facts, I was just asking maybe you could throw some light because the community is concerned about all these incidents I'm mentioning to you.

ADV MOTATA: Just to interpose, Mr Ngubane?  These people you have mentioned like the Indangani's for instance were they're staying within the township?

MR NGUBANE: That's correct Member of the Committee, yes.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you, you may proceed.

MR NGUBANE: Now yesterday I referred to a member of parliament, a gentleman known as Mandla Ndlovo.  Did you know him in the first place?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, I know him very well.

MR NGUBANE: Did you work with him either by way of him giving you instructions at all?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, he was ...[indistinct] he would only supply us with guns and ammunition.

MR NGUBANE: Right.  When you conducted operations did you at any stage use a notorious motor vehicle, a Ford Granada, which was notorious in killing people?  Do you know anything about that car?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes I know the car.

MR NGUBANE: Can you tell us a bit about that motor vehicle?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: We had named that car the Ibomesi.  If you were walking along the road in a UDF area during daylight you would be knocked off the road.  There was also a Golf.  Both these cars belonged to Zekele Nkethle and we would use them both in our operations.

MR NGUBANE: And this Ford Granada, did it belong to one Mashaneni, gentleman known as Mashaneni?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I did not use that one, the one I'm referring to belonged to Nkethle.  I do know Mashaneni but I was never close to him.

MR NGUBANE: If the Committee can just bear with me?
	There was a man who I learned was mentally disturbed, whose name was Bizan Danda.  Do you know anything about that gentleman?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Where did he come from?

MR NGUBANE: The gentleman who was killed here in Hammarsdale, he was known as a madman.  Do you know anything, that's what I want to know, whether you know anything about it?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I do not know him.

MR NGUBANE: Did you conduct an attack at a school known as Luthayi School, L-u-t-h-a-y-i, at any stage?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I attacked the ones I've already mentioned.  I've never been to Luthayi.

MR NGUBANE: Now, Mr Hlongwane, can you tell the members of society at what age did you actually start killing people?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: At about sixteen or seventeen.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chair, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NGUBANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.  Mr Hewitt, do you have any questions?

MR HEWITT: I've no questions for this applicant, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR HEWITT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions to ask?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes Mr Chairman, I do have some questions, thank you.
	I'm going to refer particularly to the incidents that you mentioned from page 139, those 20.1, 20.2 and so on.  Starting directly with 20.2, the killing of Nge Khanyile, do you see that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You testified that before he could be stabbed he was being assaulted at the time when he was questioned, do you remember that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes indeed.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Can you tell us in detail how was he assaulted before the stabbing, what was used, who did what?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: It was myself, Bhani and Bheki.  We were kicking him and clapping the person before we stabbed.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was it done simultaneously with your questioning?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes it was done simultaneously.  The other one was standing behind, I was in front, I was kicking him from the front and the other one from the back.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Will I be correct if I state that before the stabbing he was being tortured?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, that's the whole truth.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now in the killing of this young man once more, what weapons were used?  I know the stabbing took place, but were there any other weapons other than knives?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, there was besides the knives.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And what happened?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Falling down, Sulwani went to the Zuma's place, came back with the litre of petrol and then we poured petrol on him and then we lit him.