Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-02-10

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Can you please explain to me about departure, can you clarify the question for me?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, ... of the nature and extent of, or do we know the nature and extent of his other activities in Cape Town to the extent that we could with some justification put that question to him?

MR PRIOR: Well, I am Mr Chairman, simply referring to his statement where he lists seriatim at least three incidents where, in the Zola Budd operation, Guguletu operation and Crossroads operation where the object of the attacks were all police vehicles or police personnel.
	And on that basis only I am suggesting that the Newcastle disco attack appears to be a departure from the type of targets that he attacked in the past.  I simply want to confirm whether he agrees with that distinction or whether there is a distinction.

ADV POTGIETER: But you are not responding to the Chairperson's question.  What do we have in front of us at this stage?

MR PRIOR: We have a statement.

ADV POTGIETER: What is the value of that?  And that is why I asked you whether this is part of pending proceedings before the Committee and which might prejudice the applicant if you were to canvass that which is pending.

MR PRIOR: I take the Chairman's point.   If I may then be permitted to simply put it in general terms.  Maybe if I can rephrase the question in the following way and please, if the question is still unfair, or  ... (tape ends) ... departure from the normal operations carried out by APLA and yourself up until that stage?
	In other words from 1992 till the time of the attack in Newcastle in 1994?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Sir my answer to you is that when a person who is above you in rank, give you an instruction, you have to carry out the instruction.  However,  I don't know whether Power who gave me the instructions to go and attack in Newcastle will exactly know the reason why we had to shift from the previous target to the new targets.
	However, what I knew personally is that in South Africa, we were oppressed and I don't think anybody have a right to oppress us.  I knew about the attacks on police and it was changed later, we have to go to Newcastle, but I don't know about whether the official shift, what happened.  I was just given a target to go and carry out instructions.

ADV SANDI: Was it correct though, I didn't want to interrupt you because you said to him there was a departure all along until this Newcastle thing.
	Hadn't the St James incident occurred before Newcastle?

MR PRIOR: Sorry, I was referring specifically to ...

ADV SANDI: To him as an individual?

MR PRIOR: I seemed to qualify my question, the departure from APLA but specifically his participation within APLA, this attack was different.

ADV SANDI: Okay.

MR PRIOR: That is the only distinction I wished to make and I think he answered the question.

ADV SANDI: Yes, he answered the question.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Tanda, you agree with the evidence we heard, it is also common cause that the elections occurred or took place in April of 1994, about two months or so after the attack in Newcastle.

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The truth will be yes, however, it doesn't affect following the order which was given to me by the Commander.

MR PRIOR: The question that I want to ask you is, looking at the situation now, can you think of how the attack on the discotheque in any way, assisted the move to democracy in South Africa?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I would say the PAC was formed in 1959 and it formed its armed wing APLA in 1961, therefore it started as a political party before becoming a liberation movement.  The formation of APLA was after there were incidents like the Sharpville massacre and other incidents which were not mentioned.
	What happened is I don't understand how your question fit into all this.  However, the aim of all this attack was to fight to get back our land.
	If you look all over, if there were people who were oppressed internationally, the fight for their liberation because you the white people do not accept that you were wrong by oppressing us and you expected us to fold our hands and to obey under the oppression.
	Therefore as I am saying, it was nothing racial, it was just an order that I had to carry out.

MR PRIOR: Are you saying that you did not have much confidence in the negotiation process at that time, February of 1994?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I won't like you to think for me.  I will like you to ask me I think the reason why the reason you ask me referring to an order, it was, it was referring to the order that was given.
	It is not a question as to whether I was (indistinct) of the success of the negotiations, I couldn't run away from an instruction of APLA because the PAC will negotiate.
	However, I had to follow the instruction.  If you are a soldier you have to take instructions, therefore I took instructions.  I don't think that that means that I was against negotiations by carrying out the instruction that I was given.
	I don't think it is relevant in asking me about the negotiations and the part that I took, because I was turning out an order.

MR PRIOR: What would have occurred, what do you think would have happened if you disobeyed the order as you put it from Jones?  If you had said to him for example, I am not going to go and kill civilian people, white people, what do you think would have happened to you, if anything?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Firstly I would say the reason why what motivated me to become an APLA member was the conditions under which we are living.
	Nobody dragged me to join APLA.  I saw how our brothers were killed by white people together with the police and the soldiers, defending the apartheid system.  So therefore nobody pushed me behind to go and join APLA, I personally joined APLA.
	I joined not to cause chaos within it, however only to follow instructions and its principles and aims.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I think the question is a fair question.  I am going to ask the Chair to ask the witness to answer that question please.
	The basis therefore, if I may just briefly explain if there was a strict adherence to carrying out an order in a military sense, then obviously there must have been some apprehension for a reprisal of some sort or sanction if that order is not carried out, and it is a very simple question.
	Did he entertain any fear in his mind of what may have happened to him if he had disobeyed the order?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, perhaps we can because he has already given an answer which may be part of the answer.  He has already said he didn't go in there to cause chaos within APLA, he went there with a purpose to go and listen to, to go along with whatever orders.
	But maybe we can go on and ask him.  You have already said that when you were asked as to whether you thought anything could have happened to you, if you did not follow the orders, you said that you joined freely, you were not forced by anybody.
	And that you didn't go there to go and cause any chaos.  Is there any other reason why you did not want to disobey the order?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Firstly I went to the army and I was finding out where it is possible that a soldier who is given an instruction by the Commander, by the seniors, a person who would disobey such an instruction is not fit to be a soldier, so I can't answer about the punishment because it depends on a situation.
	I don't know if I managed to answer that question.

MR PRIOR: Do I understand that you were unaware that there would be any punishment, specific punishment, or that didn't enter your mind at all?