Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-03

MR LAX: That you said under cross-examination.  Your evidence-in-chief, your evidence-in-chief was that you were there for about five minutes before you left?  You were there for a short time?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: A short time, I wasn't sure what time.

MR LAX: And then you went with du Preez?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: That is correct Mr chairman.

MR LAX: That was your evidence-in-chief, later on it got stretched out a little bit because five minutes suddenly came between the questions.

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Mr Chairman, as I have said, you know, I was asked to try and give an estimate of the time, I didn't time myself.

MR LAX: Yes, the point is simply this, you couldn't have expected much of a breakthrough in a few minutes?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Mr Chairman, just out of curiosity to find out if anything had come up, I mean, that is the way I did it.

MR LAX: Yes.  Now just the last aspect Chairperson.  I am aware we have time problems.  What did you do, you now come back with du Preez, you now come back with du Preez and you are informed that this person has died and then you are informed we know that there was a time delay and there was a bit of a discussion and then after that, a decision was made to get rid of the body and then you were presumably informed after that, by Botha, that the decision was made, this is what they are going to do?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Mr Chairman, if I can recollect what happened was that on being told by Capt Botha on alighting from the vehicle that, I then went to Joe Coetzer and my team because I had gone to buy food for them which I obviously I think then deposited with them and I think what I possibly did then was spoke to Coetzer about his feelings on how the operation would continue from there.

MR LAX: Right.

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Because we weren't involved in a discussion between the other members.    I am talking about Botha and ...

MR LAX: And Taylor and du Preez?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: And so at that stage, I think I was discussing with Coetzer as to his feelings on the matter.

MR LAX: After you are informed that they are going to move the body to some other place, what did you do between that time and the time that you went to sleep?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Mr Chairman, if I can remember correctly, I think it is at that stage that I informed Coetzer that he and the team should move back to C.R. Swart and go and sleep at C.R. Swart.  If they left immediately, I am not sure.  I think then I went and sat in the sleeping facility because if my memory serves me correctly, Col Taylor was already in the sleeping facility, sitting on a stretcher, at that junction.

MR LAX: So you don't really know what you did?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: We discussed, no I haven't got a recollection of precisely what I did from point to point.

MR LAX: You don't know how long you sat there talking before you went to sleep?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: I haven't got a recollection of the exact time.

MR LAX: Okay, you didn't sit there drinking a few brandies or a couple of whiskies or a beer or chatting about the time of day?

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: I cannot remember if there was any alcohol there at that place at that stage, I am not sure.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, are there any questions arising out of questions that have been put by members of the panel?  Thank you.  Mr Baker, that then concludes your evidence, you may stand down.

ADRIAN DAVID BAKER: Thank you Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: I see that it is now one o'clock.  We will now be adjourning this matter, we have had a discussion with the legal representatives in this matter and I think we are all in agreement that it would be unsatisfactory to commence leading the evidence of a witness at this stage, because we know that we only have this afternoon left and the next witness would not be able to finish his evidence today and then to have a break of an unknown period of time before cross-examination, would not be fair for that witness.  In the circumstances, we are now going to adjourn and postpone this matter, it has only been set down for this week, next week, we are not available, I know that I have another hearing up in Gauteng.   We will have to therefore postpone it to a date to be arranged.  That date will be arranged between the TRC and the legal representatives and all concerned and due notification will be given of that date, due notice will be given.  The resumed hearing will no doubt proceed in Durban, I am not hundred percent sure if it will be at this exact venue, most likely, but whatever the case is, notification of the venue and the date will be made, timeously.   We therefore are adjourned to a date to be arranged and I thank everybody for enabling us to have this hearing here this week, thank you very much.
HEARING ADJOURNS TO A DATE TO BE ARRANGED