bitter-aloe/trc-testimonies huggingface dataset:
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

NDOVELA NXASANA: (sworn states)

MS MAYA: Mr Nxasana you are going to talk about yourself.  Is that so?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Yes.

MS MAYA: You were one of the people who were detained after the Ngquza incident.  Is that so?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Where were you detained and when?

NDOVELA NXASANA: In Umtata.

MS MAYA: For how long?

NDOVELA NXASANA: I was first detained at Mkhambati and then Umtata.

MS MAYA: You have mentioned Umzimkhulu and Umgundlovo.

NDOVELA NXASANA: Yes.   That was after Umtata, they took me to Umzimkhulu, from Umzimkhulu to Pietermaritzburg.

MS MAYA: What was your period of your detention?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Almost a year.

MS MAYA: When you were in detention, what did they do to you?

NDOVELA NXASANA: I was beaten up in Mkhambathi.  This is when I told them, I confronted them, they had beaten me up and they had broken my joints on my hands.

MS MAYA: Tell me more about Mkhambathi?

NDOVELA NXASANA: It was a forest.  There were just tents there in the forest.

MS MAYA: Are you talking about tents?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Yes.  I was beaten up in Mkhambathi.

MS MAYA: You said that there were just sails there.  Are you talking about tents?

NDOVELA NXASANA: We were beaten up.  They beat me up on my buttocks and my hand was injured.  I would scream.

MS MAYA: I see that they would tie you up.

NDOVELA NXASANA: That is the vans.

MS MAYA: Would you like to add anything to your statement Sir?

NDOVELA NXASANA: I do not have more evidence, except the places I mentioned, where I was beaten up.

MS MAYA: How is your health.

NDOVELA NXASANA: I did not do anything.

MS MAYA: What I am trying to ask, are you well now?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Well, there is not much I can say.  There was a court case and I was released.

MS MAYA: Do you have a request to the Commission?

NDOVELA NXASANA: Well I could have a request, because I was injured.   I almost deaf, because I was electrocuted.

MS MAYA: Therefore, what request do you have?

NDOVELA NXASANA: I do not know what the Commission can do for me.   I told you my state of affairs.

MS MAYA: Is that all?  Is there something you would like to add?

NDOVELA NXASANA: I cannot hear you properly.   I have finished, provided that you are going to do something for me.

MS MAYA: Thank you.  I hand over to the Chairperson.

NDOVELA NXASANA: Thank you to all of you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

CHAIRPERSON: I now call Nthombikayise Albertina Nxulu;  Nontombi Bhasayi Makwaba;  Nopopi Mantola Majinga;  Ndabazipheli Myekwa Qwathekana.   That is numbers 5,6,7 and 8.  Are they here?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: (sworn states)

MS MAYA: Can you hear me, Mrs Nxulu?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes I can hear.

MS MAYA: According to the statement in front of us you are going to talk about Mathopisi Siqakaza.  What is your connection to him?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: He was my father.  At the time of the Nonqulana incident we found that he was involved.

MS MAYA: Can you  please tell us what happened to him.

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: The police came looking for my father and he was not at home at the time of the Nonqulana incident.   There was one man and they beat him up and they came back the following day, looking for my father and he was not there.
 We heard after a while that he was arrested.  He was beaten up.

MS MAYA: For how long was he arrested?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: He was arrested for a year and then came back.

MS MAYA: Do you know where he was arrested?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: It was in Kokstad.

MS MAYA: What happened to him as you said that his ribs were broken?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: He told us that they were beaten up and his ribs were broken and as a result of that he could not go back to work.

MS MAYA: Do you know what the police used to beat him up?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: No, I do not know.

MS MAYA: But you say that he was not well after that.

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes.

MS MAYA: Can you please explain that?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Two of his ribs were broken.

MS MAYA: Is he still alive

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes he is still alive.

MS MAYA: How is his general health, except the one you have just mentioned?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: He cannot hear, in other words, he came out of jail in that situation.

MS MAYA: Yes?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: He cannot hear because he was beaten up.

MS MAYA: Is there anything else that you want to add?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Can you please repeat your question?

MS MAYA: Is there anything else or do you have any requests to this Commission?   Let me help you.  You said that you need help or the grandchildren of your father.

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes that is correct.

MS MAYA: And you also requested water in your area, clean water in your area.

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes.

MS MAYA: You also requested that there have to be a day to remember, to commemorate the people who died on that day.

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes.

MS MAYA: Is that all you want to say today in front of this Commission?

NTOMBIKAYISE ALBERTINA NXULU: Yes, that is all.

MS MAYA: Thank you madam.   You can go back to your seat.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

ADV SANDI: We will proceed to the lady next to Mr Jali.  Your full names madam please.

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: My name is Eleanor Pika.

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: (sworn states)

ADV SANDI: Who are you going to talk about?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: I am going to talk about my husband, April Pika.

ADV SANDI: Will you briefly tell us what happened to your husband?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: The boers came, took him, beat him up, kicked him, threw him on the floor.   They threw him into a police van and took him to town.   He was detained for two days in town and then he came back.  He was terribly injured.

ADV SANDI: Exactly how was he injured?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: He got injured when they were beating him up.

ADV SANDI: According to your statement Mrs Pika you say that they used the back of the gun to beat him up.

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: You say that they were using guns, they would kick him with their boots, slap him on the face, throw him on the floor.  That ill-treatment caused his illness.
 On his release he was never able to do anything constructive again until he passed away.

ADV SANDI: Which year was it?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: If I am not mistaken he passed away in 1985, according to the documents here.

ADV SANDI: You speak about a child with epileptic fits.  Whose child is that?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: It is my child.

ADV SANDI: Do you remember what you said about this child?

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: I remember you spoke about this child.

ADV SANDI: Could you repeat please.  What did you say about the child.   According to your statement you said your child should be given a sickness grant.  Is there something else you would like to say, madam?  Maybe you have something to say.

CETYIWE ELEANOR PIKA: No.

ADV SANDI: Thank you madam.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

BEKABANTU QALANYOBE: (sworn states)

BEKABANTU QALANYOBE: Mr Chairman I have no complaints about the evidence that was given before the Commission, even today's evidence I am satisfied.  I have a request, however.
 I request the Commission to help up with some form of feeding scheme.  Our children are hungry.  We are unemployed.   We do not know what to do.   That is my request.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you talking about ordinary food?

BEKABANTU QALANYOBE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement have you mentioned this request?

BEKABANTU QALANYOBE: No, I am adding that.  Yes I am adding.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  It is that time of the day when our minds are tired.
 We thank you for coming here in front of this Commission to tell us your story and as you have told us your requests, we will tell the President and the Cabinet about your requests.   We have noted everything in your 
statements and it will be our responsibility that, after we have investigations we will tell the President about your requests.
 For now, we thank you for coming in front of this Commission.
 The Commission will now adjourn and we will meet again tomorrow at 9 o'clock and it will be our last day tomorrow.   We would like to request everyone to be here on time.
 Thank you.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

DAVID ZIFOKOFE SILANGWE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You have heard the evidence that was put before us.  Do you confirm this evidence?
 If you confirm the evidence, is there something that you would like to add?

DAVID ZIFOKOFE SILANGWE: I would like to repeat the request concerning Nonqulana.
 If one goes to our meetings nothing is said about Nonqulana, but now we realise and we will remember that everything started on this mountain.
 We request that the Government does something about this mountain.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Simayile and Mrs Mamanci, Mr Ndinizi is my brother.  Thank you for having given evidence to the Commission.
 This people that you are talking about passed away in the middle of a battle, battle for the liberation of this country.    Pardon us please.  Even though it seems like their deaths were a loss, you must realise that their blood was shed so that our country would be where it is today. 
 As the Commission, we empathise with you.  The requests that you have put before us as the Commission, we receive them, look at them carefully and take them before our President.
 He has the responsibility to see what he can do about them, if he can meet them, meet them, those he cannot, there is nothing he can do.
 He will also say so.  There are a lot of requests from all sides from different places in the country, from home to home.  We are going to lift these requests to the President.
 If he is not able to meet all of them, please you have got to keep in mind, that there are a lot of requests, but our responsibility is to take this requests before the President.
 Mr Simayile, it would help if you have got details about this man you heard whilst washing the car.  It would
help if you would give us the names, that we would know where to start.  Thank you, you may step down.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: (sworn states)

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs Xhakana, you are here to tell us about your husband.  What was his name?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: He was Shomboto Rubin Xhakana.

JUNE CRICHTON: And he was detained for three years.  Is that correct?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: Yes that is correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: What was the charge?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: He was arrested in the Nonqulana incident.

JUNE CRICHTON: And on his release he was a very sick man.  Did they tell you in the hospital in Nzimkulu what was wrong with him?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: They said that he had been beaten up, he was coughing blood and he could not hear.

JUNE CRICHTON: It seems that there were many people who came out of prison, out of detention who were coughing blood.  Why do you think that was?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: This was because they were beaten up and they were kicked and he was beaten up by the back of the rifles.

JUNE CRICHTON: You also speak how this has affected you.  You say that you have suffered from depression?  Are you under any treatment for that?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: No.   I am under no treatment, because I ... the one of the state of my health.

JUNE CRICHTON: I need to ask Mr Lungu the same question.  Mrs Xhakana is there anything else you wish to say?

NOFUDUKA ELEANOR MAMJOLI XHAKANA: No thank you.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much.
 Thank you Mr Chairman.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

MR MEIRING: Because he's very welcome. We're very happy and very glad that you are here today that you accompanied David in his testimony. Thank you, you're very welcome.
 David, if I may call you on your name, what does one say to somebody, who's not only lost his property, but who lost his wife, whose children had to grow up without their mother. How can we compensate for that? We cannot, but we do pray that the Lord will bless you and that He will give you peace and that you will be able to live with your head held high. I marvel at the way at which you are not bitter and that you are willing to work for the community. You are the mayor now and it's our privilege to have you here. May the Lord help you, guide you that you may find ways to fight for justice, for reconciliation in your community. The time you spoke of 1986, was a particularly harrowing ...... (tape Ends)
 ........ 500 people were either tortured or detained by the police. So the story you told comes from a time of pain and of disturbance. Thank you for being with us and as I've said, may you find peace and may you be an instrument of reconciliation for Brits and for the whole area. Thank you for being with us.
 Before I ask the next witness to come to the fore, a number of people have arrived. It seems to me that there are chairs available, Vikele, are there still chairs? At tea time we will rearrange the chairs, we will put chairs is the front so that the people standing in the back will be able to find seats, also at tea time, make sure that you avail yourself of earphones and sound boxes, but it will be explained to you at tea time. 
 I see that an old friend of the Truth Commission, Rev Jacob Nele has come to us, he has been helping us a lot.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

LUKAS M MODISE: Yes, I know them.

DR RANDERA: But were they known in the community as informers even before that, or was that the first time your suspicion arose?

LUKAS M MODISE: I didn't suspect them to do that, even now they are on the side of the troubled council.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: : Mrs Seroke.

MS SEROKE: You say those people who tortured you didn't cover their faces. Were they white people or black people?

LUKAS M MODISE: They were black people.

MS SEROKE: Is Dr Lekoma still around?

LUKAS M MODISE: He is no more in Maboloka.

MS SEROKE: You say it's because of this torture, your hip is painful?

LUKAS M MODISE: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Are your genitals working now?

LUKAS M MODISE: No at times they do.

MS SEROKE: Do you have children?

LUKAS M MODISE: Yes, I have one child.

MS SEROKE: Are you married, or just a girlfriend?

LUKAS M MODISE: A girlfriend.

MS SEROKE: Are you working?

LUKAS M MODISE: No I can't work.

MS SEROKE: How do you live?

LUKAS M MODISE: What I can do is upholstery. I'm covering chairs, even car seats, even ordinary chairs.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: : Mr Modise, thank you for coming today to tell your story to us. I listened very carefully when you said that the day after your torture you were taken to the magistrate and the magistrate did not give you a chance to talk, would not give you a chance to tell your story.
 Well after all these years, your time  has come, and today was your time to tell your story and we listened to your story as we listen to the stories of thousands of victims, but we will take your story very seriously, and you may know that in one way or another your story will also be reflected in the report of the Truth Commission.
 Our best wishes go with you. We've taken note of your requests and we will give attention to that, and we do hope that your life in future, even though you have no work and even though you still suffer, that you'll have a bright future, and the Lord bless you. Thank you for coming.
 It is time for tea, during tea a number of things will happen. The staff will arrange for a number more seats, more chairs to be put in front and maybe in the back of the hall. During tea time, those of you who do not have earphones or these boxes, can come to the front to ask for boxes to be given to you. Remember on channel 2 it is in English, on channel 3 you will find the Tswana translation of everything that's being said. We can now break for tea. May I ask that promptly at 12 o'clock, promptly at 11.50am we would like to restart. Thank you.
HEARING ADJOURNS
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

DR RANDERA: Chairperson, thank you for all those kind words to the people. When we started our work last year in Mafekeng, the first hearing that we held there, I think we all came with certain expectations and clearly within the commission also, with our own prejudices. Fifteen months later, I think we leave this region, having learnt a great deal from the people in this region. We've heard many stories, we've taken thousands of statements and we leave with a feeling of humility and I want to thank all the people of this region, and particularly for this hearing, all the people in this area who've done this splendid work that you have with us.
 I also want to thank the director of this centre and his staff for allowing us to use the premises, and for being so generous in the facilities that you've provided to us.
  There are a number of people from your community who have been assisting our briefers today, and I'm sure that you recognise them as people who have been working for many years in your community, and I'm sure will continue to do this splendid work that they've been doing up 'till now. Clearly all the "moruties" have been sitting here in front, have assisted us in organising the meetings that we held, the educational meetings, as well as assisting the work for today, so I thank them very much.
 Our translators and I'm sure again you recognize one of them who lived in your community, who is also a reverend in the community. I thank them for all the work that they've done today and to the media who are hidden away in the corner, particularly I want to actually commend Radio Mafisa, a community radio station based in Rustenburg and they have been covering the hearings live. They have been taking what you've been saying here for the last 3 days into almost 1.2 million homes, so a special thank you to them. Lastly our own staff, who have put in enormous amount of work so that we can sit here and listen to the stories that you have been telling and I say thank you very much to them. Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We have a surprise, we have received a very beautiful poem from Ms Judith Motaung and would you like to read it. Is it short, will you please read to us if you, please use this, please use this.

MS MOTAUNG: Reads poem

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to ask all of us to stand and the Reverend Madau will close our proceedings with prayer.
HEARING CLOSES WITH PRAYER
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

MRS SEROKE: How did your father feel when Mr Magobe did these things to you, or didn't your father like what you were doing.

SHIKO J NTSOKO: My father took him as a betrayer. He wondered why didn't Mr Magobe, as a friend, come to him when his child had made something wrong and he asked him that by himself, "Why didn't you come to me and tell me that my son did something wrong, maybe you could have talked to him."

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera.

DR RANDERA: Mr Ntsoko you have taken us way back 30 years, more than 30 years in the past. This is one of the oldest pictures, one of the oldest photographs you pasted in our album today. Thank you for telling your story. You said at some stage that you felt guilty and that you felt bad because you did little to help the community.
  I'm sure you have done many things to help the community and even coming today to the Truth Commission, bringing your statement as so many have been doing these months is helping the community. You are helping us to find a true picture of everything that happened in the country over many years. Thank you for doing that. We are happy with you that your son partially fulfilled your promise. Is he becoming a doctor or a lawyer?

SHIKO J NTSOKO: He is a lawyer.

DR RANDERA: Well we are very happy and when you go back home, will you please, will you please go to your mother who is paralysed, but please greet her from all of us and tell her that we are proud of her son. Thank you for being with us.      Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

SAMSON M KODIBONA: I didn't do anything, I just stayed at home and I just survey the situation....

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: I have no further questions.  I just want to remind ourselves that in 1978 when your first arrest took place and the torture that you underwent and the subsequent going into exile, you were only sixteen years old.

SAMSON M KODIBONA: I was seventeen years old.

DR RANDERA: Right, sixteen, seventeen.  Thousands of our youth face the same situation as you.  Leaving their homes, leaving their families, often leaving their education and going into exile.  The Chairperson of our Commission has said many times that the democracy that we are in now, has had a heavy price and the heavy price having been paid by, by our, by our country but mostly by the youth of our country, must be recognized.  We are planning throughout the country for offices of the Commission to have a special hearing on children and youth in June.  Where we want to actually highlight and identify not only what the, the commitment and the sacrifices that youth made, but also the problems that have aminated from this.  I think what, that's one of the challenges of our new democracy as to how do we move from a country where in the 80's youth actually became militarized to now move in into a country where we, we develop and respect new values.  And I hope that you coming here to-day again has identified to us and to the community at large the price that you people paid.  Thank you very much for coming.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

DR RANDERA: Pheule, I just want to go through what, what we understand of what happened at that time and perhaps you can add or subtract.  Our research tells that there was, there was mass protests against the continuing existence of, of Black Local Authorities at the time and of course the youth and residents were asking for the resignation of Councillors in Messina.  This was a trend that we have seen in other parts of the country as well.  The death of Wilson of course led to the launch of a consumer boycott and a stay-away which lasted almost a week.  We understand that even White businesses were forced to put pressure on Black Councillors to resign.  These events coincided with the formation of the Messina Civic Organization at the beginning of the  1990's and of course other mass campaigns were launched including the Value Added Tax that we heard of earlier on and this was done in conjunction with Cosatu.  As we've seen in other places of course all these actions let to more arrests and to more killings and more injuries so I'm not saying that we're not listening to what you're saying about Wilson's death.  Wilson's death of course appeared to trigger off a number of events in, in Messina and Nancefield.  Thank you very much for coming to speak to us to-day and we will come back to you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

DR RANDERA: Can I call Tshalo Moraba.  Mr Moraba, good afternoon.  Can you please introduce the person who is with you?

MR MORABA: This is Reverend Makena.

DR RANDERA: Can you please stand to take the oath, please.  Joyce?

MR MORABA: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata, will you take over?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who is, who's the pers...

MR MORABA: I'm sitting with Reverend Makena.

INTERPRETER: Could you excuse the interpreters.  The mike is not on.  Mr Manthata's mike is not on.  Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Could you briefly relate to us, when  you were arrested and why you were  arrested and tell us everything that happened?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

DR RANDERA: Can Miss Nkundlane please come forward. Miss Nkundlane, good afternoon and welcome.

MS NKUNDLANE: Afternoon.

DR RANDERA: Thank you for coming.  You're also taking us to 1990 as well as another incident that took place where you were also arrested.  Before I ask you to tell your story, can you please stand to take the oath.

MS NKUNDLANE: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  I'm going to be assisting you as you tell your story.  Can you just take your time and tell us what happened in 1990.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

THOMAS MANTHATA: And we understand that this Pops incidents was related to politics because at the time they were against political organizations but every time when you were active and boycotting and doing other things, was there a time where you did actually burn house of  Committee Councillors or even killing them?

MS NKUNDLANE: No, what we did, we're just marching and we went to, to their house and demand their resignations because they could not meet our demands.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Dr Ally !

RUSSELL ALLY: Was Pops seen as involved with Community Councillors or sympathetic to Community Councillors that he became such a target?

MS NKUNDLANE: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: And, and presently, where is this person?  Pops, is he still in the community or what, what happened to him?

MS NKUNDLANE: The Committee evicted him.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you just explain.  What do you mean, the community evicted him?

MS NKUNDLANE: After his house was burnt and after people were complaining that he, he must leave Messina, from that day he just disappeared.  We could only see him during the, his trials.

RUSSELL ALLY: And presently, do you have any idea where he is or, any knowledge?

MS NKUNDLANE: I heard that he's in Venda  but I don't know where in Venda.  I met him one day in Venda but I don't know where he's staying at the moment.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Miss Nkundlane, thank you very much for coming here and talking AND  we've noticed this morning that this community of Messina and Nancefield have thrown forward many strong woman and clearly through your struggles in the, in the '80's and '90's you've come out being very strong.  That doesn't take away the fact that you were tortured, intimidated during the many times that you were imprisoned.  I thank you for coming to-day.
        Can I suggest that we break for lunch and return at two thirty five.  Thank you.  Two thirty.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

RUSSELL ALLY: I understand what you're saying that what you did was not necessarily supported by Seth Ntai although it doesn't take away what happened to you in detention.  I want you to please understand that.  What happened to you in detention is obviously a, a separate matter and has, and it has to be dealt with but I was just trying to get to, to the background and understand the context in which these events took place but thank you very much.

DR RANDERA: Jeanet, just two more questions.  Earlier on in, when you were talking you said, you talked about the boers.  Now were these people, you referring to the police as the boers?  Where you referring to a, a certain political party in, in Messina perhaps or was it the whole community that you're referring to?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: By Boers, I'm referring to the White policemen.

DR RANDERA: And my second question is just, I think Tom touched on it earlier on.  This question of you being unemployable because of your political records and activities.  Does that still apply?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Even now I'm unable to work.  I even take my problem to the Women's League because I'm unable to pay even water because of the thing that I was doing in struggle.  I'm unable to find a job because of all this and I was forced to join security and now I'm just doing nothing but for peanuts for the security.

DR RANDERA: So you are working at the moment?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, I'm working but I stopped working because I found that the money was peanuts.  Two Hundred and Ninety and I decided to stop because that I'm, I wasn't satisfied by the money.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Jeanet.  We don't have any further questions.  What you have described is a story that we've heard so many times as we've travelled through the length and breadth of the country.  Your arrest, the detention, the treatment that you were given but I want to go back to something the Mayor said earlier when he was talking about how our, how our democracy has come about and I think part of that democracy is to respect people's human rights regardless of which political side they may, they may be coming from and I hope that your experience that you had in those years is never repeated within the political history of our country now.  So, thank you very much for coming and you will be hearing from us in due course.  Thank you.

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Dankie.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

MS SEKHWAMA: Sarah has three kids.  The other was born in 1985.  The second born in 1987 and the other last born was born in 1990.

DR RANDERA: In your statement you also make the point that Sarah became mentally disturbed.  Now this happened in 1990.  How soon afterwards did you, did you begin to realize that there was something else wrong with Sarah besides the fact that she had been blinded in her left eye?

MS SEKHWAMA: No.  I think she was affected when, after she was being shot on the eye.

DR RANDERA: Was that immediately noticeable?

MS SEKHWAMA: I don't understand the question.

DR RANDERA: The mental disturbance that you talk about that Sarah has got.  Did you notice it as soon as she came out of hospital?

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, we realized soon after she was released at the hospital because whenever she heard something like a gun shot, she would start being disturbed.

DR RANDERA: And now you're saying that she's not receiving a disability grant.

MS SEKHWAMA: She never received any cent.

DR RANDERA: Annikie and Sarah, thank you for coming to-day.  I have, we don't have any further questions unless you want to add anything else.  Do you want to add anything else?

MS SEKHWAMA: No thank you.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much for coming to-day.  We will come back to you once we've made more enquiries.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Now, in your statement, I'm just trying to find it.  Oh yes.  When, in answer to the question of why you think this happened, you say, and I'm going to quote from you now, what, directly from what you say, and I hope you can maybe add a little more.
"I think it was during the time of political parties.
 I also thought one of those friends inside the car was of other organisation."
I assume you mean political organisation.  Can you just explain a little more what that statement means?

MRS BEMBE: I don't know anything about all the passengers in the car, that were in the car.
Because when he just came and collected him, collected her and he didn't tell where he was taking her to.  And even after the death, he didn't come to report to us.  We just heard that from other people.

RUSSELL ALLY: This is the boyfriend you're speaking about?

MRS BEMBE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: And do you perhaps have some way that can help us to maybe speak to Absalom?  Do you know where he is presently or could you assist us in getting ... (intervention).

MRS BEMBE: He's somewhere in Nelspruit, but I don't know his whereabouts.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you know what kind of work he does or anything like that?

MRS BEMBE: He was a truck driver.  He was a truck driver transporting some of the goods to Johannesburg at the time.

RUSSELL ALLY: But you don't know the name of the company for whom he drove?

MRS BEMBE: "Skilpad Verwoerd."

RUSSELL ALLY: "Skilpad?"

MRS BEMBE: "Verwoerd."

RUSSELL ALLY: "Vervoer?"

MRS BEMBE: "Vervoer", yes.  "Skilpad Transport."

RUSSELL ALLY: In Nelspruit?

MRS BEMBE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much, ma Bembe.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Bembe, thank you very much.  You were in the audience earlier when Mr Msibi gave his testimony, which was a similar case.
 And Dr Ally at the time explained the information that we had from the ANC and the submission that they made to us some three weeks ago. 
 They did also say if we should come onto any other cases that they did not point out to us, specifically, we must make it available to them and they will look into the matter and see if they can help us with further information and whether they accept accountability or liability for the incident or not.
 We will certainly have this referred to them.

MRS BEMBE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And we hope that in due time we can give you more information so that you could perhaps just understand a little better really what happened.
 Although I assume one will never really be able to understand why it had to happen with oneself and one's child.
 Thank you for coming to us.  Thank you for sharing your story and your pain.  The friendly and painful experience projected through your face, specifically, at the same time, is certainly something that I will remember.
 Thank you for having come to us and we wish you well.
__________________________________
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

CHAIRPERSON: May I ask that Mrs Liberty come to the stage, please?
 Mrs Liberty, welcome.  You heard me earlier.  We have studied the documents that you've made available to us.  But we would like to hear in your own words your story.
 I will ask Mrs Sooka to administer the oath and then Dr Ally will you assist you in leading your evidence to us.
 Thank you for the moment.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  Mrs Liberty, will you stand, please, so I can ask you to take the oath.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: (Duly sworn in, states).

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, you may be seated.

RUSSELL ALLY: Good afternoon to you, Mrs Liberty.  I had the pleasure of being introduced to you during the lunch break.  I hope you feel welcome.
 We're very pleased that you have come to the Commission and we know that you're going to speak about something that is obviously very painful;  the killing of your husband, Eric Robert Liberty;  an incident which took place in December of 1989.
 I'm going to ask you if you would just please go through what happened and also if you can tell us something about Eric, because I see that in the statement, in the time of his funeral, there was a bit about his history and his background.
 So we appreciate hearing from you, thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

CHAIRPERSON: May I ask that Mr Melato be brought to the stage if he has arrived.  I will ask Ms Sooka to lead in this evidence and she will also first administer the oath.

YASMINE SOOKA: Morning baba, morning mama Melato.  Are you able to hear me clearly?  Are you able to hear me, baba?  You don't have the, are you going to talk in English?

JOHN M MELATO: In English please.

YASMINE SOOKA: Oh, all right.  If you are going to talk in English, then you don't need those ear phones.  Okay.
 Baba, before you begin your evidence, can I ask you to stand to take the oath please.

JOHN M MELATO: (Duly sworn in, states).

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Baba, you may be seated.  You've come today with, is the Mrs Melato with you?  We'd like to welcome you.  It is a very sad story, but one which we are hearing fairly often as the Truth Commission receives evidence from different witnesses.
 I'm going to ask you to tell your story in your own words and then I will ask you questions where I want, you know, more information and more clarity.  Will you tell us your story please.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

NELSON KEOBAKILE COLANE: I am left with those people, the perpetrators, because some of them I know, those policemen, I would like for them to come forward and ask forgiveness from me.  And they should actually give me the costs, the money to go and consult with the doctors, because there were some doctors who had given us some help, but they couldn't give us medicine and treatment MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
6 N COLANE
after they diagnosed you.  
 So, I would like for the perpetrators to come forward and pay up the doctors' fees and the doctors' treatment that will be given to me.    And also ask for forgiveness from me because what they did was totally unacceptable.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Colane you responded to a question from Dr Randera that you never had a visit from a magistrate or a doctor, yet in your second statement that you gave to us you make reference to a visit by Dr Kotze when you were in Vryburg and that at cession you were taken to Dr Strauss.  Is that correct or is there some mistake in the statement there?

NELSON KEOBAKILE COLANE: What I said is that Dr Kotze came to see us at the cells.  He never examined me.  This Dr Strauss, he is from Kuruman, he was brought to Kuruman because I had problems with my stomach for seven days.  He didn't examine me he only gave me pills and then he went away.  That is why I say I never consulted a doctor, whilst I was still in jail.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you were released from prison how do you feel, your body?

NELSON KEOBAKILE COLANE: When I were outside there was an arrangement that we have to consult with doctors at Gauteng.  They only examined us, but I still have some pains on my body.  They couldn't give us any treatment or medicine that could help one.
I am still going for treatment for my eyes now.  I thank you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Nelson, we are so thankful for your coming forward to tell and give us a testimony.  In this statement you mentioned the fact that the perpetrators like Venter and Doppies, and various people, were torturing you, which is the
teargassing of people, but not only you.
 Since yesterday and today many people told us that they were being teargassed.  We hope that as you are prepared to reconcile MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
7 N COLANE
maybe those people can be brought forward so that they can ask for forgiveness.
 We thank you for coming here.

NELSON KEOBAKILE COLANE: I thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

LETLHOGONOLO GABORONE: What surprises me about this letter is that it is not signed but I will read it to you.   It is written under the African National Congress' letterheads.  It is being addressed to comrade J Nthlantla, who was head of the National Intelligence Services at Shell House in Johannesburg.   It was dated the 2nd of September 1981.
 It reads as follows:  
"Comrade Joe Nthlantla, we refer you back to the matter of Joe Mabilo.  We have been approached by the family of the abovementioned, wanting to know the circumstances, surrounding the death of this comrade.  According to Mr Libilo, who is the brother to Derrick, a cadre of our movement, he
MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
6 L GABORONE
first heard that Derrick is dead around 1983.  And the actual date is not known.  All that is known is that he died in detention by our Security Department.  Kindly furnish the family with the details, surrounding the death of this comrade.   You may suggest to the leadership who should brief the family.  I am thanking you in advance.  Yours in struggle,  Chris Hani, MK, Chief of Staff."

DR RANDERA: Letlhogonolo, can I just ask how you have come to this letter?

LETLHOGONOLO GABORONE: All I can say is that this Governor Libilo indicated to in this letter, was a brother to Derrick Libilo.  What I know is that he also went away in 1986, fleeing South Africa.  And he was followed by his brother.  Therefore, where they were, it seems as if they used to meet, but I am not sure in which way they met, or what they talked about.  And it also is clear that when they were away he asked about the whereabouts of his brother.  That is when he wrote this letter.  According to what he said this letter was written by Chris Hani's Secretary, because he had to go into a meeting with the President.  I don't know what the meeting was for.  Therefore, no one signed the letter and then he brought along the letter without being signed.   Thank you.  I don't know whether that answered you question?

DR RANDERA: Yes, you have.
CHAIRPERSON:   Gaborone, we sympathise with you regarding what happened to you and we are happy for your efforts to try to know where your father is and to know what happened to him.   And as every child, every boy would like to have a father, who he would may'be look up to, who can give him some teachings about manhood, we feel very sorry for you MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
7 L GABORONE
that you never had that opportunity.   And it shows that you are a very important person who looks for the truth, who wants to know where he comes from.  
 We will try to see how the people who were within, or the organization he belonged to, whether they could help us in this case or not.  
 We also thank your aunt for coming here.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

DR RANDERA: Chairperson, I call Bertha Gasebue to the table please.  I also understand that Evelyn Mosagedi will be adding to the story, as well as Herman Mothlale.
 Good afternoon and welcome, ladies and gentlemen.  
 Ms Gasebue we are of course going back again to a very painful day for you and for the others there, because on that day of 25th of November 1985, it appears that several people - we have heard stories related to the others already - several people lost their lives in Huhudi township.  
 One of those people, unfortunately, was your son, Monamodi Gasebue, who was only 17 years old at the time. He was shot and he died.
 Ms Joyce Seroke is going to be helping you in telling your story as well as that of Evelyn Mosogedi.
 Please will you both stand and take the oath.

MS G GASEBUE AND MS MOSOGEDI: (sworn states)

MS SEROKE: I will request you to briefly tell us what happened on the 25th of November 1985.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

UNKNOWN: Andries Bangane Kgobadi, will you please come to the table?  Andries, welcome.  I see you have brought somebody else with you.  Would you please like to introduce him to us?

ANDRIES KGOBADI: My father.

UNKNOWN: Andries,  you are going to be telling us also about what happened to you personally in 1985.   Before I hand over to Mr Tom Manthata will you please stand up and take the oath?

ANDRIES KGOBADI: (sworn states)

UNKNOWN: Thank you Andries.   I'm going to ask Mr Tom Manthata to lead you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Andries, will you please proceed and tell us what happened to you and tell us about the police by the time of this case.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you and we will try to see how we can solve your problems, so that we can know what caused the people to do what they did to you.   Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

DR RANDERA: We have said right from the beginning as we started our work that we needed to form partnerships in order to undertake this enormous work that this Government and the nation have given to us.   And the Church has been extremely generous in what they have been doing so far.  Thank you.
 We also have visitors from Rustenburg, from Klerksdorp and from Potchefstroom and I welcome them too.
 Andries are you comfortable?
 I see you have someone else with you.  Would you like to introduce him to us as well?

ANDRIES KOTO: He is Tom.

DR RANDERA: Andries will you just stand and raise your hand and take the oath please.

ANDRIES KOTO: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Andries you are going to tell us the story in your time and in your own words of that fateful day of the 27th November 1985, when you sustained severe injuries from gunshot wounds.  Will you please tell us your story?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, the doctor that was actually in charge, I have a letter from him.

MS SEROKE: Will you please give the letter to us after we have finished here.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We are very sorry about what happened to you that when you sent your child to the shop that he couldn't come back and you only heard after a number of days that he was dead.  And that even at his funeral, the police came and disturbed the funeral with teargas.
 Those were very hurting occurrences and we are thankful to you to come forward to tell and share with us what happened.   We see what means we'll make to help you.
 We also thank you for the fact that you brought forward the letter from the doctor.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

DR RANDERA: David, thank you very much.  David we want to thank you.   When we begin this morning I said that the youth took the initiative and today we are enjoying the fruits, because we are now free.   And most of you and most MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
6 D T MAAPE
of your friends were tortured.
 And then we hope that when they see the point that we have been to that will encourage them and that will give you happiness.   We must know the truth about what happened in the past.   
 As I have already mentioned that we don't have to forget, we don't have to say that we are now free and then at an ultimate end find ourselves in the same bad actions.  We have to be very straight that we will not allow this - whether black or white, or a coloured or an Indian or anybody else - we won't allow them to be assaulted and badly treated as we have been treated.   We must know that this is a country to be very proud of, because we know that freedom and self-governing is what we want for everybody.
 And those who think that we will revenge for the harrassment that they have done they will be shocked to hear that, no we give them hands, we want to walk this way together.  We want to build this country together.  
 We want to thank you.

DR RANDERA: In one way it is much the same kind of stories that we hear, but I am constantly myself amazed at the quality of our people.   I am amazed at the quality of old ladies, often uneducated, but with a tremendous spirit, tremendous courage.  And they are the people we must honour.
 All of the people who used to be thought of as if 
they were nothing, non-entities, they have made a tremendous contribution to bringing about the kind of changes that we see today.  
 And for their sakes and for the sake of many like yourself who have suffered so much we must preserve this 
MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
7 D T MAAPE
thing that we have got and uphold it and guard it jealously.