Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

CHAIRPERSON: ... any one of these?  Please just take care that you return it before leaving the hall.  They do cost a lot of money, but they can unfortunately not be used outside of this system.  It is of no value outside.  But please check on yourselves, because one can easily walk out forgetting that you have it on you.  There are different channels and on the left-hand side, you have a little wheel with numbers on.  Channel two will be a translation into English and channel three I think will be into Zulu today, is it?

TRANSLATOR: Channel three is Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Channel three is Zulu.  Thank you very much.  Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.  Mr Msibi, have you brought somebody with you, is somebody accompanying you?

MR MSIBI: I'm alone.

RUSSELL ALLY: There are briefers with you.  Msibi, you are coming to speak about a particularly horrific and tragic event; the deaths of both your mother and your sister.  Can I ask you ...

MR MSIBI: That is correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: I'm going to ask you if you can just please go through these events with us and tell us what happened.

MR MSIBI: I'll start by saying that they were going to a funeral, travelling in a van.  There were five inside.  On their way, it was about quarter past three in the afternoon and it so happened that on the road they were travelling in, a bomb was planted.  It happened that it exploded and my mother and my younger sister died.
 My younger sister left some children behind.  We are now supporting the children, sending them to school, because the husband also died.  
 This is what I know concerning this matter.  We did not know much, because even the police, they did not come to give us the full reports as to what happened.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Msibi, you say there were five people on this van?

MR MSIBI: That's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: And were your sister and your mother the only fatalities, the only people who died?

MR MSIBI: I would say my mother and my sister died.  The others died, but they were not related to us.  There was Mrs Tole and Mr Morte and the two died.  Only James Morte survived and he's still alive.

RUSSELL ALLY: You said that the husband of your sister also died.  Was that in a separate insident?  You mention - was he also ...

MR MSIBI: I was saying this was the husband she was living with.  He died, but his name is Sithole.

RUSSELL ALLY: But in a separate - he died after this event.  I am just trying, he wasn't on the van?

MR MSIBI: He died at the same time in the explosion.

RUSSELL ALLY: Because that's important, because it's not on your statement.  You only mention your mother and your sister.  So, now there was one survivor of this bomb blast?

MR MSIBI: Yes, that's correct, his name is James Morte.

RUSSELL ALLY: What is, what was James's account of what actually happened.  I'm sure you must have spoken to James and tried to establish from him what happened?

MR MSIBI: James explained as to how they were seated in the car.  I mean the arrangement come to seating, that's the only thing you can explain and he said he just happened to find himself in hospital and he doesn't know what happened exactly.  The only explanation that I'm saying is the explanations to how they were seated in the car, but he doesn't know as to what happened later.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say you did report this to the police?

MR MSIBI: Yes, we did report the matter.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did the police, did they do any investigation?  Did they, for example, try and find out what exactly had caused this explosion?  Was it a mine, anti-tank mine or a limpet-mine?  Did they make any enquiries to your knowledge as to what had actually caused this explosion?

MR MSIBI: We only get into contact with police this year, but the explosion was in 1987.  They did come to us to talk to us.  They just explained to me as to what kind of bomb it was and that was all that they told me.  That was the last time I saw them.  They also took me to the scene and we came back.  And they did nothing after.

RUSSELL ALLY: What kind of bomb did they say it was?

MR MSIBI: They explained that it was a Russian-made bomb.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did they say who they thought was responsible?  Did they mention names of any organisations or anything like that?

MR MSIBI: They said they suspected someone and are still proceeding with the investigation.  I would say this was on the first time where we had encountered bomb explosion at the same place.  The first one is, it happened and a policeman was killed.  And the second one, about two policemen were killed in another explosion.  This was the third one.

RUSSELL ALLY: So this road that your family was travelling on, was this near a farming area or near a military area or near a police area?  Just tell us a little bit about the actual place?  If there is anything significant about it, because in your statement you just speak about the road between Barberton and an asbestos mine.

MR MSIBI: This place is next to the asbestos mine.  In that particular place, the soldiers used to exercise by climbing the mountain up.  So I would say that the bomb was planted near that place.  I think they were targeting these soldiers who were training on the hill.  Unfortunately it wasn't the soldiers who were caught in the explosion, but were other people.

RUSSELL ALLY: So there was a South African Defence Force?  Was it a training base, a training centre or a base there, what exactly?

MR MSIBI: Yes, I would say there was a soldier, there was a camp for soldiers.  However, the way it exploded was just a way which leads to the training field.  There were also some families near the road.  As I said they were going to the funeral.  So it so happened that they walked on the road, they travelled on the road and they were caught in the explosion.