Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-07

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: I am still going to the court of law Sir, since the beginning of this year and last year I have been to court on many occasions, but I was never given a chance to say any words.  They were given their time to speak and they indicated as to how many bullets they spent on shooting us.  They said they used 76 bullets to shoot at us.  One of the Captains had a R5 rifle and his magazine was loaded with HRV/813 eight/...
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eight and it was all used.  The other one also had 30 but one was not used.  There were two Captains in the group of policemen.  And the other one said his magazine was loaded 50 and he used the whole 50.  The other one used just one.  They shot, they even killed the next door neighbour's dog.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

MS SEROKE: Can you please be quiet.  We request you to be quiet.

DR BORAINE: I have only one last question but it's a very important question and I hope you will help me with this one.  The court case that has been taking so long is that an inquest surrounding the death of your friend, and if not was there an inquest separately and what was the result?  If it was the inquest are you a witness at the inquest or are you actually on charge of possession of a firearm?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: As they have been arresting me I thought for a year I would be resting but now the people from the Police Investigative Unit came back and they took my statement.  They said my case would be reopened because my case wouldn't just end nowhere.  They have to get to the core of the matter.  They said we would go to the private court, but when we went to the private court they said we are not going to reveal as to who is wrong, who is not wrong, but the father of the deceased said he would find himself a lawyer and investigate this matter thoroughly.  That is why the case is still continuing until today.

DR BORAINE: Do you know if the family of Papi Boshego do they have a death certificate and if so what was the cause of death?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: Yes they have the death certificate.

DR BORAINE: And obviously the cause of death was by, as a
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result of being shot, do they indicate how many times he was shot on the death certificate?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: No there is no indication as to how many times was he shot. When the deceased's father wanted to see the body they said no he could not see him, and he said to them you will not conduct the post mortem before I could see the body, and they said to him you listen to us or you don't.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Is there anything else you want to add before I hand you back to the Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: It seems to me that you are finished with your story.  I ask Dr Randera to ask a few questions.

DR RANDERA: Mr Molotsi can you tell us, there was a third person that you and Papi went to visit that night Mr Basi Motaung, did he sustain any injuries?   Was he in the ...(intervention)

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: He was the whole time in the shack.  When the two of us went out he was left behind.  After this incident he was taken to the doctor, he is mentally disturbed, he is totally mad.

DR RANDERA: Was he a member of any political organisation?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: No he was just an ordinary person.

DR RANDERA: Can I then just ask a direct question of both of you and you seem to know a lot about Papi as well, were you MK members as well?  You say you are an ANC member, an ANC Youth League member, were you MK members?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: No, no Sir.

DR RANDERA: And my last question, sorry two questions, one is related to all these proceedings that are going on, do you have a lawyer yourself?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: The father to the deceased organised us a lawyer.
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DR RANDERA: /...
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DR RANDERA: What's the name of the lawyer?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: Our legal representative is Gaka, but I have seen the other one is new, he is from Johannesburg.  I think I have his name here.

DR RANDERA: Okay we will try and get that from you.

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: His name is Taki Madima.

DR RANDERA: My last question is about your own injuries, you said you were shot in the leg, but it sounds as if you went to the hospital and then they took you back to the prison on the same day, am I right to assume that?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: That's correct Sir, that is on the same day.  The doctor wanted to say something to them and they said to him I am urgently needed at the Houtkop police station.

DR RANDERA: So you were not left with any permanent disability as far as the shooting went?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: I am disabled Sir because the doctor examined me.  After I was given bail I went back to the doctor, it was Dr Manoto, and Dr Manoto wrote everything down as to my injuries.

DR RANDERA: Can you just tell us what is your disability, your physical disability?

PULE IRISH MOLOTSI: My left foot just on the vein was shot.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Molotsi thank you so much for coming to us and relating your story that happened to you, that happened to your friend, to Mr Papi Boshego to us.  We really appreciate it and we will take up the things you left with us and hopefully there will be some light shed on it.  And may we wish you all the best also with your injury and with your life ahead.  May I say to Mrs Boshego, the mother of Papi, that we really cry with you, the pain and the anguish
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must have been very severe and very hard on you.  May you find peace.  Thank you for coming to us today.  Thank you ever so much.  You may step down.