Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

WITNESS:   He usually said Gcina Mkhize had a gang and they wanted to kill him.

MRS GCABASHE:  What was Gcina?  Was he a member of a certain political group?

WITNESS:   At that time my husband said - he did not explain to me, but I only knew it later on, when I was told by the police and when I was told by the ITU people.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now, tell us as to what he was.

WITNESS:   They said he was a ZPO - KwaZulu Police.

MRS GCABASHE:  Was your husband involved in a political organization?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was a member of the ANC.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now, according to your own opinion, do you think this has any connection to his death?  Did it have anything to do with politics?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did suspect it at some stage because he used to say even if they could kill him, they would not finish off the ANC.

MRS GCABASHE:  You say he was killed next to the bridge, KwaMaholoholo.  Was it ever heard as to who shot him?  Was it the policemen or just ordinary people?

WITNESS:   According to Vusi's explanation, he says when they got to the cross from J1 section they saw a certain car following them.  They were from Esikhaweni, heading to KwaDlangezwa, and there was a certain car that was following them.  It overtook them.  Just when it was parallel with the car in which they were driving, they started shooting.

MRS GCABASHE:  Did it look like a police car or did it look like just an ordinary car?

WITNESS:   He told me the make of the car as well as the car plates.

MRS GCABASHE:  If you would like to speak to Vusi, where can you possibly get him?

WITNESS:   They said he had joined the army.

MRS GCABASHE:  Whereabouts?

WITNESS:   I do not know, but whenever he is at Esikhaweni he usually comes to my place to see me.  Yes, he does come to see me, as well as my children.

MRS GCABASHE:  Since your husband's death, how are you feeling, because this happened at a stage when you were quite very young?  Was your health affected physically or emotionally?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was affected in a very adverse manner.  What disturbs me even more is the lack of finance on my part.  I'm not able to bring my children up and take them to school and I do not fulfil their needs.

MRS GCABASHE:  Health-wise, how are you feeling?  That is yourself and your children?  We do realise that there is a big difference between the time that your husband was alive and after his death.

WITNESS:   I got very emotionally disturbed.  Even now I'm not free.  I can't forget.  I'm very much emotionally disturbed.  I can't forget his death.

MRS GCABASHE:  Take your time, Cecilia, this is a very painful story you are relating to us.  As well as the fact that you remember all this so vividly and you have to relive the ordeal and speak about it once more, we understand that it's a very painful situation.  How are your children?

WITNESS:   My children disturb me even more because most of the time they speak about their father and this one - my last-born was four months old when my husband died and he always asks as to where his father is.

MRS GCABASHE:  How are the children coping at school?

WITNESS:   The two were supposed to be in standard 10 now, but when their father died their studies suffered and they had to repeat standard 9.

MRS GCABASHE:  You also speak about your father-in-law.  You say he is not well.  You wish that you could get some help.  What is he suffering from?

WITNESS:   He died as from - he got ill as from that day that my husband was killed.  He suffered from diarrhoea and he had a heart problem.  He was admitted.  He never even went to my husband's funeral.

MRS GCABASHE:  When did he die?

WITNESS:   When I came to the Truth Commission my father-in-law was no longer alive.  He had died already at that time.

MRS GCABASHE:  You also request that you should be helped with regard to housing.  Where were you staying?

WITNESS:   No, it was a company house.

MRS GCABASHE:  Is there anything else that you would like to say to this Commission that we can pass on or include in our report to the State President?

WITNESS:   I would like to say that the President should help me raise my children and offer them some bursaries so that they can further their education and I would like to know as to who killed my husband.  I want them to come forward and admit, because I hear rumours that they do admit, but they have never faced me and told me in the eye that they are the ones who killed my husband.

MRS GCABASHE:  Thank you very much, Cecilia.  We pass our condolences to you.  It is very obvious that you are still feeling very bad and tormented about your husband's death.  Have you ever gone to see any doctors, especially psychiatrist, because you are emotionally disturbed?

WITNESS:  Yes, I do go to see doctors.  At times I would go for a headache, because most of the time I suffer from the headache - constant headaches and I've got a problem with memory loss.

MRS GCABASHE:  Did they ever advise you to go for counselling?

WITNESS:   No, they never did.

MRS GCABASHE:  But would you like to get any counselling?

WITNESS:   Yes, I would appreciate the effort.

MRS GCABASHE: We thank you very much, Mrs Taliwe.  I shall hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mrs Taliwe, you mentioned in your statement that your husband received anonymous telephone calls.  What did the person on the other end of the line say to your husband?

WITNESS:   Those who phoned were people who asked for him and asked as to where he was.  Even those who used to come to our home used to ask for him and I would tell them that he was not at home.

CHAIRPERSON:  You mentioned in your statement that they said that he must go back to the Kei River, because that was Mandela's place.  Did they say things like that?

WITNESS:  Yes, there was a certain meeting which was held, which my father-in-law had gone to attend at KwaDlangezwa and, when he came back, he related to us that they said a member of the ANC must go to the Kei River.  Even the Detective Khumalo, when we had gone to ask him for permission to go and see my husband, he said, "Mandela's people have forgotten that Mandela does not have anything in this place.  They must go to Kei River.", because this was a place for Zulus.

CHAIRPERSON:  Where was that?

WITNESS:   It was at Esikhaweni.  The CID at Esikhaweni.

CHAIRPERSON:  You mentioned that your husband said to you if he dies that you should know that it was Gcina Mkhize who killed him.  Is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.  These are the last words that he uttered to me, and he died on the very same day.

CHAIRPERSON:  And you said that the police later told you that Gcina Mkhize was a member of the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   That is correct.  I was told by the Goldstone Commission, as well as the ITU that Gcina Mkhize was a member of the Police Force in KwaZulu/Natal.

CHAIRPERSON:  That's correct.  In fact, he was a member of a hit squad, which included two other people by the name of Romeo Mbambo and Israel Hlongwane.  These three people were part of a hit squad, which was formed at about that time, in 1991, and they killed many, many people in the Esikhaweni area and they were arrested the year before last, in 1994, and they were tried for murder and all three of them were convicted of murder and they are presently in prison and, during the course of the trial, they said to the Court that the hit squad of which they  were members had been set up by senior member of the KwaZulu Government and the KwaZulu Police.   I think that's important, for the record.  It's probably something that you do know, but I thought I should just place that on record, that Gcina Mkhize is presently in gaol and we have heard that he intend to apply for amnesty.  Now, your husband's murder is not something that he has admitted to.  Is that correct?  You don't know for sure that Gcina Mkhize killed your husband?