Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-30

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: They were enemies.  We were paying revenge because Bobolina was not there.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Majola, this document marked 157(a) and (b), did you write it?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: 157?

CHAIRPERSON: You know that statement you wrote or said that you wrote, it was part of your application?  Did you write that out?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your statement?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes it's my statement but I did not write it.

CHAIRPERSON: Did somebody else record it for you when you told them what to write?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on Mr Patel.

MR PATEL: Who wrote out this statement for you?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: By Gita Mnisi.

MR PATEL: Alright, returning now back to Carlton Maseko and the unknown black man.  As I understood your evidence you gave chase of the unknown black male but he eluded your attempts to catch him, is that correct?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes that is correct.

MR PATEL: And what happened then?  You returned and found Mr Maseko?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That is correct.

MR PATEL: Now in respect of this killing and the attempted killing were you armed in any way?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I had a panga.

MR PATEL: And in respect of these offences were you acting under any orders?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I did get an order from Chris.

MR PATEL: And could you tell the Committee what the orders were?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Chris said we should go and look for Happy and we should destroy anything that is ANC along the way.

MR PATEL: Yes alright, the next offence, attempted murder and damage to property: two hand grenades thrown in the direction of the South African Police and the Black Cats.  Could you explain to the Committee the circumstance in which this incident took place?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We were at Gita Mnisi's place.  Gita went to answer a telephone and he came to me and told me that Black Cats were moving towards a certain direction to attack at a certain night vigil that was held that night.  We went to another friend of ours by the name of Basil Dhlamini who stayed at Everest and we got some hand grenades there, about four of them and I took two.  We went down the street and Gita Mnisi broke the street light so that it could be dark and when we got to the shops we saw the Black Cats as well as the police.
	We went towards the beer garden and we went into some yards trying to hide ourselves.  That's when we saw the Black Cats as well as the police at a certain corner.  We threw the hand grenades towards their direction.  The one hit the centre.  I threw the first one and I waited for quite a while and tried to observe their reaction and I threw the second one which hit a billboard.  That is what I did.

MR PATEL: Did Mr Mnisi throw any hand grenades at that time?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I think he threw one.

MR PATEL: What was the motive or what was the purpose for throwing these hand grenades?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: The reason why we did that was that we were trying to protect the members of the ANC who were attending a night vigil as well as members of the community who were attending the night vigil.

MR PATEL: Were you acting under any orders in committing this offence?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: As members of the STU's we took it upon ourselves to protect members of the ANC as well as members of the community so that they couldn't proceed to the night vigil to kill people or attack people.

MR PATEL: Yes.  The next offence, that is the attempted murder and damage to property when Mr Mnisi threw a hand grenade at the South African Police.  When did this take place?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Can you repeat your question?

MR PATEL: There's a further offence for which you claim amnesty, it's again attempted murder and damage to property when Mr Gita Mnisi threw a hand grenade at the South African Police.  When did this occur?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was at night.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got a date for us?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was on a Saturday.

MR PATEL: Do you know what month it was?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I think it was during 1993.

MR PATEL: And the month was it January?

CHAIRPERSON: I think 1993 is good enough Mr Patel.

MR PATEL: As it pleases you Mr Chairman.
	The second hand grenade when was that thrown, how long after you had thrown two hand grenades and Mr Mnisi only one?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I think it was towards dawn if I remember well.

MR PATEL: And you were with him when he threw his second hand grenade?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I was with him.

MR PATEL: As a member of the Black Cats, who was your leader, who was the head of the Black Cats?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was Jwi Zwane and Chris Ngwenya.

MR PATEL: Now in the commission of the offences for which -in the commission of the offences for which you claim amnesty, were you motivated by any personal malice or gain?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: No there was no personal gain for me.

CHAIRPERSON: What do categorise as revenge Mr Patel?

MR PATEL: I beg your pardon Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: How would you categorise revenge?

MR PATEL: I don't think revenge is mutually exclusive from a political objective.

CHAIRPERSON: It surely can't be argued that if a murder is committed because of revenge or irritation that it could fall within the ambit of the Act.  He went there to kill the son of the deceased.  He didn't find the son.  Merely because she was a member of the ANC and as he says at an irritation of not finding the person they had targeted, they killed the mother.
Does this fall within the ambit of the Act?

MR PATEL: It will be my submission at the end of the day that it does fall within the ambit of the Act given.  The type of instruction that had been issued out to these Black Cat members.

CHAIRPERSON: What if the instruction is not based on a political motive?

MR PATEL: Well then to some extent then this particular applicant could rely on the fact that he was a "sort of a foot soldier" and following orders from those in authority above him.

CHAIRPERSON: Still the order must be - find it's foundations within the political spectrum not so and in that absence does it matter whether he acted on an order or not?  I ask the question because you asked him if all these offences that he committed was done with a political motive.  I'm not talking about matters two, three, four, five and six.  The Shongwe murder I refer to specifically and I asked the question and you say you'll make submissions on it.  I'll accept that.

MR PATEL: But you were not motivated by any personal malice or gain you say?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: No I wasn't motivated by any personal malice.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't you kill Mrs Shongwe out of malice?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: No I did not kill her out of malice.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't you kill her because you were cross that you didn't find her son?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I was standing next the windows.  The person who went inside was Sugar as well as China and they are the ones who shot.

CHAIRPERSON: Look Mr Majola, you told me you agreed with it.  Everybody agreed with it.  Didn't you agree to it - with it -because you were cross that you people didn't find her son?  Not so?  You went there to kill her son, you didn't find him, got angry and decided to kill her.  Correct?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That was not from me but from the people that I was with.

CHAIRPERSON: So you didn't agree with her being killed?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I did agree with it because there was nothing I could do.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Patel?

MR PATEL: As a member of the Black Cats gang did you have any general instructions to commence with?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes he did, he said so.  He says he had general instructions to destroy everything that was ANC.  What it meant or how he interpreted it is another matter.

MR PATEL: As it pleases the Committee.  Did you undergo any military training?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I did.

MR PATEL: When?