Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-12-07

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: I did not even see one bullet.   I heard that they had AK, but although he said they had KK, but I could tell that those were AK, and I hate the sight of AK47 and I was so sure that when I get there I will see such, but I did not.

MR MATTHEWS: So why was it necessary to shoot Mr Mzmandi?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: When he tried to run away or escape, I was not too sure as to where he was going and to do what, so I was in the dark and was not too sure of what was happening, so I had to shoot and be pro-active, in other words, and he appeared at the supreme court as being innocent.   I don't know people of that area.   Each time you receive some news, you have to take initiative and do something, be pro-active, in other words, but I am now referring to his family, that they may please forgive me for the acts that I committed, and I would like to emphasise the fact that they should forgive me.   I am sorry and I am forgiving those people as well for what they did to me.

MR MATTHEWS: Now you say, you have previously, on a question, said that you were once on your way to kill a Mr Magubane, an ANC leader in Ixopo?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: It's Mr Mabubane, not Magubane, point of correction.

MR MATTHEWS: Yes, Mabubane.   Did you attempt to ambush him?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, I did try.

MR MATTHEWS: Tell us where this was?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: There are two roads and one turns to Nogweshe and the other turns to Mazabelwene, and at the intersection of these roads, that's where we constructed this ambush.   I tried to shoot, but I could not succeed, but we managed to hit the car, nevertheless.

MR MATTHEWS: And who gave you instructions to do this?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: That was Mabesa's utterances, that he was being attacked and he kept distributing the news.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was Mabesa?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Mkhize, he's Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: What area was he from?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Joliverte is his home.

MR MATTHEWS: You've also applied for amnesty for the murder of a Mr Msimango in 1993?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's true.

MR MATTHEWS: This was a person that was unknown to you, is that correct?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's true.

MR MATTHEWS: What led up to his killing?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Mr Msimango you mean?

MR MATTHEWS: Yes.

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Mr Msimango came to us and cheated my commander and said a big comrade, a very active comrade by the name of Qabe must be eliminated, and yet that was not true.   I am very sorry, he did not say it's Qabe but he said he is a one light in complexion guy with big eyes, and when I got to that person, I realised that I know this person, I knew Mabesa very well, that he did not get along with the comrades, and I came back to tell Mabesa that "That person was your friend once upon a time and now you are changing the whole scenario", and I asked him further if he had sent me to kill his friend, because Msimango was furnishing death to me and we realised that Mr Msimango was the one who had to be killed eventually, and I'm sorry for that act.

MR MATTHEWS: Who gave you the instructions to kill Msimango?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Mabesa did.

MR MATTHEWS: Is this Mabese Mkhize?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, very true.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he the same as the Beki Mkhize you referred to us previously?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's the one.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR MATTHEWS: Was this because Mr Msimango had previously issued an order for the killing of an IFP person?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: That's what I received, I did not even know that Mr Msimango, but that's what was brought to my attention.

MR MATTHEWS: Was Mr Msimango then thereafter taken to an isolated spot where he was killed?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, he was killed there in the forest, that's where we shot him.

MR MATTHEWS: And somebody cut out his private parts?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Well it's one of my members who were in my company who did that.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that on the instructions of your commander?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: At the time when that instruction was given, I was not present, I had already left the scene, I never heard him uttering such words that his private parts must be cut off.   I only met them and they told me that they've already removed his testicles, and they also told me further that they have been instructed by him.

MR MATTHEWS: Your affidavit contains - you say
"Nobody was arrested for this crime."
However you, that is:-
"I did report this to the Hibberdene police and I do not know what happened."
What did you report to the Hibberdene police?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: We were arrested for this case and the Dlamini case as well, and the case was postponed and the court, it's not that the case was done, but it was only remanded, and I did not plead guilty at the court of law with regard to this, and it was postponed and one of my co-accused pleaded guilty.

MR MATTHEWS: And was the case against you withdrawn?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: The case was postponed because the evidence could not tie in.   I only gave one statement to the police and I refused to give or submit any statement without my attorney.

MR LAX: Just before you go on, which person was convicted for that offence?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: No-one was convicted.

MR LAX: I thought you said one of your colleagues pleaded guilty to that case?   You pleaded not guilty, you said, but somebody else pleaded guilty?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Delani Dlamini, that is, is the one who said he has the inside information, but I said I did not know a thing, I did not even want to give any statements, and then thereafter they said the case is remanded.

MR LAX: Was the case withdrawn against Delani as well?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, the three of us, that is, the case has been withdrawn and no-one is appearing in court for that.

MR LAX: So that was yourself, Delani and Mnongese?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's true.

MR LAX: Thanks.

MR MATTHEWS: Now the murder of Tulaphu Dlamini was a personal matter between you and him, is that correct?

INTERPRETER: Please repeat that question?

MR MATTHEWS: The murder of Tulaphu Dlamini.

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, I killed him.

MR MATTHEWS: Over a personal issue?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, out of personal issues, having nothing to do with politics.

MR MATTHEWS: You do understand that you cannot be granted amnesty for such a deed?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, I perfectly understand that.   The reason why I'm bringing all this to the commission's attention is so that I can this forum to ask the forgiveness for all the acts I committed.

MR MATTHEWS: You are making a full disclosure of all your criminal activities, is that what you're saying?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's true.

MR MATTHEWS: Now the next incident is heading, "The killing of a young boy at Matugene in 1993", the person who was killing R50,00 on your behalf from the community?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: Yes, that's true.

MR MATTHEWS: Was this in fact a young boy or what was the position?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: My estimation will be roughly 29 or 30 years, that's my rough estimation, I'm not sure about this.

MR MATTHEWS: So he's not a young boy?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: No, he's not a young boy at all.

MR MATTHEWS: And what happened there?

SIBISO RICHARD MBHELE: He left to collect monies at Umbonvini, saying that I have sent them and I'm working for Zolengweni and Babasane is the name that I did not like and they used that name, and I called the community to ascertain from them as to whether they were aware of this and they should give me a light of what I should do with this, and that boy was part of the list that I had, and I said in full hearing of the community that I will send a lesson to the community and this is what a person deserves after he has done this act, I had to kill him in full view of his family and I'm very sorry for my act.