Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-13

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: What I did as a person who was opposing the government of the day, I did not regard that as breaking the law but the Boer government regarded it as law-breaking and I was prosecuted because of it, that is why I was found guilty by him.  That is why I made this application for me to be here because I was not supposed to be prosecuted.

UNKNOWN: As you are sitting there now Mr Majebe, do you accept that the finding made by the magistrate that you are guilty of an attempt to kill Mr August was correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: As I'm sitting here I am against that finding but unfortunately I don't have any power.  That was done and the aims of that government were fulfilled.  I'm opposing that.  If I was not opposing that I wouldn't come here and ask for amnesty, I would be in prison.

UNKNOWN: So you have come to ask for amnesty because the magistrate's finding that you were guilty of an attempt to kill Mr August is wrong?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I am here with the aim of trying to show anyone that what I did at the time was not wrong to members of ANC because that is contained, even our documents are not against that, but anyone who is not a member of PAC will take that as a wrong action but I'm here with the aim of trying to do away with what used to happen during the old government of the Boers.  I am not sure if you are satisfied sir.

UNKNOWN: I'm not satisfied but I'll proceed to the next question.

UNKNOWN: Sorry Mr Sandi, before you proceed to another question.
	 Mr Majebe, why didn't you tell the Court that you were acting in self-defence?  Why didn't you tell the Court that there was this background of conflict between your organisation and the complainant's organisation and that it was in that context that you had attacked him?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: The Boers were happy and they knew everything about it.  They were prosecuting, doing all these things to me.  It's because they knew very well that I was going to overthrow their government.  They imprisoned me and prosecuted me because I was protecting their regime.

UNKNOWN: Did you tell the Court that you were aware that the complainant was a member of the ANC?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: If there was a reason for me to do so I would do that but there was no reason because I was even against - I did not even admit that I hit him, but here I do admit that and I even give my reasons for doing that but in Court I did not even do that.  I did not even admit to knowing him as a person who was hit or as a person who was a member of whatever.  I said all the things that would save me from conviction.

UNKNOWN: Yes but you could not have convicted for saying this man had a firearm, he was trying to shoot me, I took the firearm away from him and here's the firearm as an exhibit.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: If I was collaborating with that government of the Boers I could have done so but unfortunately I was not working together with that government, therefore I could not do anything like that because he was going to gain at the end of the day.

UNKNOWN: Where is the firearm, what happened to the firearm?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: It was confiscated during a raid in the base.

UNKNOWN: Carry on sir.

UNKNOWN: Mr Majebe today we learnt you issued the order to one of your colleagues to shoot Mr August.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Secondly we learnt today that you were commanding this operation to shoot and kill Mr August.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Do you have the document that you yourself -no before I come to that question, do you have the application which you submitted to the Committee which you signed while you were in prison seeking amnesty.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes it is here with me.

UNKNOWN: Could you look at page 1 of that document.  Do you see that on page 1 of that document you describe yourself as a PASO organiser?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Elsewhere in the document you mention that you were trained in the camp as a member of APLA.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Now in this document, that is the application, you don't mention anything about the fact that you were a commander.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Just repeat your question.

UNKNOWN: In the application you made to the Committee you don't mention anything that you were a commander of operations.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is correct, it is not all the information that is contained in this paper.

UNKNOWN: Who appointed you to that position of commander?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: The person who trained me.

UNKNOWN: Has he got a name or not?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: He does have a name, it's Diyo.  The name is Diyo.

UNKNOWN: When did he give you that rank of commanding officer?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That was in 1993.

UNKNOWN: So at the time that you were involved in this incident relating to Mr August, you were this commanding officer having been appointed to that position in 1993?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Now you had other people under your command?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And Vuyasile Biko was one of them?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That is not so.

UNKNOWN: Was Vuyasile Biko a member of ANC and a member of APLA?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I know him as a member of PAC.

UNKNOWN: And Tekana Biko, was he a member of APLA?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: At the time he was a member of PASO and he was also in the task force.

UNKNOWN: Now why didn't you mention this information in your application that you were appointed to the position of commander?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: The time was not yet right for me to explain that because as you look at this application you've got only a few lines to supply information.  I was just mentioning things I saw them necessary to be contained here.

UNKNOWN: But sir you were asked pertinently in the application to describe the capacity in which you committed the offence in respect of which you are asking for amnesty.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Will you please show me that part here in this document?

UNKNOWN: On page 1, paragraph B, that's where you state that you were a PASO organiser during the event and that you were also from the APLA camp.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: As you see this part, the only names that would fit in this part I inserted them but because of the space that was not enough I couldn't put anything further.

UNKNOWN: And also in this application you don't make mention of the fact that you issued an order that Mr August be killed by one of your colleagues by shooting him.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct but I don't think that there was a question that needed that type of an answer because I was just answering all the important questions as I knew that I would get a chance to answer other questions when I'm here.

UNKNOWN: Look if you look at page 4 of the said application, on that page you state in detail what happened before Mr August was attacked.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And nowhere do you mention that you issued an order.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: What I want to make clear to you is that when I was filling in this form no one was advising me as to how to go about it, I was just doing it myself.  I will take last incidents and put them in front but if there was a person who would give me advice as to how to do it I could have done so, but unfortunately I did not know to fill in the form, that is why some of the things are not visible here.

UNKNOWN: Yes but surely Mr Majebe, you don't have to be told by anyone that you were an APLA commander having been appointed in 1993 by Diyo, do you?