Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: I would not say so because there was never a known incident in Nkanyezini, where an ANC member was killed.  Attacks on ANC members by the IFP was only happening In Maqongqo.

MR ALBERTS: You stated that you wanted the IFP to grow because of this killing.  How would the killing of these people in the mini bus help the IFP to grow, that is what I am trying to get at?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: We wanted to make people who know themselves to be IFP supporters, not to be shy or afraid to be known as such, because of fear of being killed.  The killing was going to show the ANC supporters that they were not the only people who could kill.  IFP supporters could also kill.  This would then stop them from killing us.  They would know that if they attack us, we would avenge that attack.

MR ALBERTS: Mr Ndlovu did you hold any position in the IFP or were you just an ordinary card carrying member?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: I was just a card-carrying member.

MR ALBERTS: And how do you feel now about this killing of ten people which you were involved in?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: I feel very very bad.  I do not even know what to say to my people.  These people were just captives in the car, who could not help themselves or run away.  I also feel pity for this woman who is in the wheelchair today, because I know her before she was injured.  I know how beautiful she was.  I realised now how bad it is for such a young person not to be able to walk on her own.  I also hope that God forgave all those who died for what they were doing while they were still alive.  I am very sorry to everybody and I do not know how I can show how sorry I am.  Even if these people who were attacked were the ones we were looking for, it would have been the same case.  As we are in prison, we were visited by the leadership of the IFP, and were told how inhumane it was not to respect other peoples lives.  It then dawned on me that that even if we  got the people we were looking for, I would have felt bad now because those people were also black people like me.  They were not supposed to have died, whether they were IFP or ANC members.  These parties can both exist without any problems.

MR ALBERTS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Nothing further.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ALBERTS

CHAIRPERSON: Any cross examination Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Ndlovu, I want to refer you to your Amnesty application, Section 11(a), Page 22 of the Record.  I'm assuming that you did indeed fill this document out, perhaps I should just ask you if this represents a copy of your handwriting?

MR ALBERTS: Mr Chairman I think this is just an English translation.  His application was filled in in Zulu and it's a bit more to the front of this.

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you for pointing that out.  Possibly I might ask and it will be interpreted to you.  In answer to the question in Section 11(a), was your act committed in the execution of an order or with the approval of an organisation, institution or body and you say, and I quote the English,
"Nobody ordered me, but I did it as an act of vengeance."

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: That is true.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Now, it's clear therefore as I believe the evidence of the first applicant was, was that there in your evidence was no order whatsoever from any other person in regard to this attack.  Is that correct?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: As far as I know, if you say that I must go and get that cup, you will be sending me to do that.  But if you say, let us go and do this, you are not sending me because both of us will perform that act.  Nobody therefore sent me to do something.  The only person was the one who said we must go and do something, together.

MR WILLS: Yes, rather let me ask you a different question.  If and I'm not suggesting this is the case, it's a hypothetical question.  If you were asked by someone who was more senior to you in the IFP to do something, would you obey that instruction?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: When I joined the IFP, I did not do that because I liked a certain leader or a person.  I did this because I liked the policy of the party.  Nobody, even the president of the IFP can say that is contrary to the policies of the party.  I knew then, that it was against party policy to kill people, therefore nobody from the party would have told me to do so.  I did not have a commander to give me instructions.  I was not trained.

CHAIRPERSON: I think there's no purpose asking him a hypothetical question, you are going to get a hypothetical answer.

MR WILLS: As you please Mr Chairperson, I'll get more to the point.  Mr Ndlovu, what concerns me is it appears after having read the Record of the Judgment in your trial and also having had sight of the Appeal Court Judgment in your matter where your appeal was dismissed, that in fact the orders that did come from IFP leaders after the killing of the six children were exactly not for Inkatha members to take revenge for the killing of the six children.  Are you aware of that?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: That is true.  The leader of the IFP in the Midlands did announce that in the media that we should not avenge the killings.  This was also reiterated by the leader for the IFP in Mboyi that IFP supporters should stay calm.  As I say, this is what I decided on my own free will after I was asked to join in this by my friends.  I am also a human being who can be hurt, and who knows what to do if he feels that his life and that of the people around him was not safe.  There is nothing I could do.

MR WILLS: So, it's clear, or it seems to me therefore that you knowingly broke the policy of the IFP specifically in relation to the killing of the children, is that correct?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: Yes.  I want to ask all the IFP structure to forgive me in this because it was against the IFP policy.  This is against the party policy, but we had to do it so that the party could grow.  I believe in doing something that you feel is helpful at the time and that is how I felt at that time.

MR WILLS: I put it to you, that you could not have been doing it for your organisation.  If your very organisation from the leaders in your area and to that extent I refer to Mr Bernard Mkhize had told you specifically not to take revenge?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: I deny that.  I felt this is what I had to do for the party.  I was not going to drink these people's blood, nor was I going to eat them after they had died.  I was not going to gain anything.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the question really was that you did this to satisfy your own anger and not to satisfy the policy of your organisation?  What do you say to that?

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: I cannot say I was doing this for gain.  I am the IFP member...

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not talking about gain.  I said you were doing it to satisfy your own anger, not gain, do you understand?  You did it to satisfy your own anger and not because it was going to gain your organisation anything when they had already decided that it would be wrong to take revenge.

NKANYISO WILFRED NDLOVU: Where did that anger come from?

CHAIRPERSON: No just answer whether there, you see there's no doubt about the anger, so you don't have to ask where it came from, just answer the question.  You did what you did because of your personal anger, you see, that was the main reason why you did it, despite the fact that your leader said you should not take revenge.
	You see I understand your answer because you did tell us that, "I did this on my own volition.  This was done on my own volition."  I understand that,  the question now is that you were driven by your personal anger that led you to do it and not the interest of your party?  That's the purpose of the question.