Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
MR MOTLANA
"I've been invited by the TRC in terms of Section 29 of he promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, number 34 of 1995, to provide the TRC with evidence and/or answers to questions relevant to the TRC's investigation into one
The formation or/and purpose of the Mandela Football Club
The abduction, assault and murder of Stompie Seipei in 1988
The abduction and assault on Thabiso Mono, Pelo Mekgwe, Kenneth Kgase
The attempted murder of Lerothodi Ikaneng in 1989
The murder of Doctor Abu-Baker Asvat in 1989
the abduction and imprisonment of Katiza Cebekhulu in 1991
The activities of the mass democratic movement ...[inaudible] Mandela Crisis Committee in respect of any of the matters raised in 1 - 6 above.
While it is my intention to assist the TRC in it's function in conducting the investigations into the matters referred to above being 1 - 7, I can only provide such assistance to the best of my recollection and ability and only in relation to matters which are personally within my knowledge as such.  I'm therefore not in position to give evidence nor answers to the matters raised in 1 - 7, as those matters are not within my personal knowledge.
 Insofar as my name may have been mentioned during these proceedings, I hereunder proffer information that may assist the TRC in it's investigation and such information does not necessarily fall within the matters under investigation mentioned above in 1 - 7"
May I start with my relationship with the Mandela family?  
"I have known Mrs Madikizela Mandela since 1955 when she was then a medical social worker at the Baragwanath Hospital and I was a senior houseman at the hospital.  In around 1958, I became the family doctor of the Mandela family and has been so till 1994.
 As the Mandela family doctor I have occasion to visit the Mandela residence on various occasions to provide medical assistance to the family and in the process became a family friend which I still am.
 Insofar as I can recollect, I remember receiving a telephone call form the Reverend Peter Storey regarding allegations that Mrs Madikizela Mandela allegedly made against Reverend Paul Verryn relating to the sexual assault of certain minors by Paul Verryn and was requested to intervene with Mrs Madikizela Mandela in this regard.
 I recall discussion the matter with Mrs Madikizela Mandela and emphasised to her the need to desist from making such allegations, if indeed she had made them.  Again during the early part of 1989 - I can't remember the date, I further recall a meeting with certain members of the clergy at my house at Diepkloof, amongst whom were Reverend Peter Story.
 At this meeting I recall that the matter of certain minors who were allegedly held against their will at the home of Mrs Madikizela Mandela, being discussed.  At this meeting I was requested by the said members of the clergy as a concerned member of the community and a friend of the Mandela family, to intervene and attempt to have the said minors released.
 I recall attending at Mrs Madikizela Mandela's residence and discussing the concerns that had been raised with me regarding the said minors and requested that they be released.  
 I had forgotten about all this Mr Chairman, but my wife recalls that a certain gentleman by the name of Richardson brought three minors early one morning during my absence - our house in Diepkloof.  My wife informs that she requested the said Richardson to take the children back to the Mandela residence from whence I would then fetch them later of when I got back from the city - Johannesburg.
I've now been reminded that I personally drove the said minors to the offices of Krish Naidoo at the Carlton Centre"
That Mr Chairman, concludes my statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Now, are there any other points that you want to make?

TATO MOTLANA: Not at this time Mr Chairperson, thank you.

MR PIGOU: Chair, would you like the other members to read their statements into the record at this point or would you like to proceed and then let them at the appropriate time?

CHAIRPERSON: Possibly, let's do that I think, let's have the Reverend Otto Mbangula.

MR MBANGULA: Thank you Chairperson.  I would like to request that I am allowed to make a preamble to my statement so that you understand the context out of which we actually visited Mrs Mandela.

CHAIRPERSON: Briefly.

MR MBANGULA: Briefly.  As I've said, it is important to locate the proper context in terms of the sequence of events as they are reflected in Bishop Storey's submission.  On page 9, paragraph 5, it is alleged that our visit took place on Friday the 18th of January 1989, I think that is a mistake.  Firstly, the 19th of January was not on a Friday but was on a Wednesday.
 Bishop Storey's submission itself talks about events happening on a Tuesday the 17th in the previous paragraph and there's a gap between the two, so that's the first thing.  I think this clarification is important in order for the Commission to understand our purpose in visiting Mrs Mandela.  Our visit happened on the 13th, on a Friday the 13th and not the 18th and therefore I would like to go to my statement with that background.
"I'm an ordained Minister of the Methodist Church, Southern Africa.  In 1987 I was appointed by the conference of my church to Jabavu in Soweto as a Superintendent Minister.  From the 7th of December 1988 to the 5th of January 1989, I was away on holiday.   On my return I received a report from the second steward Mr James Sebe, that young men who were living at our Orlando Mission House were removed from there by Xoliswa Falati and some members of the Mandela Football Team.
 It was further reported to me that the stewards did not know what to do as Reverend Verryn was on holiday.  I immediately reported the matter to Bishop Storey, then our district Bishop and he suggested that it would be good if I could attend a meeting by community leaders which was scheduled meet - correction, in the following week to deliberate on the matter.
 I went into that meeting with the following concerns:
Why were the young men removed from the mission house?
Why or where were they by then?
What was the basis of the allegations leveled against Reverend Paul Verryn?
What could one do in respect of Mrs Mandela who was and is a member of my church?  This was a pastoral concern.
Fortunately in that meeting which happened on the 12th of January now, I could not get an answer to my concern.  It became clear that maybe a meeting with Mrs Mandela - as she seemed to be a key person who could through some light on the whole matter, was needed - correction, so that I could provide clarification to the congregants in my ...[indistinct] as there was a deep concern about what was happening around the church at that time.
 As the matter was of a national concern by then, it seemed wise to request other church leaders to join me in the consultation with Mrs Mandela.  I then requested Bishop Manas Buthelezi and Father Mangaliso Mkhatsa to accompany me to Mrs Mandela's place.
 I phoned Mrs Mandela and made an appointment to see her with other members of the clergy, she agreed.  In our discussion with her she informed us:
That she was informed that the children - that's what she said at the time, the children were being sexually abused by the Minister at the mission house.  She had sent some people to collect the young men so as to ensure their protection from what she perceived then abuse.
We asked her about the whereabouts of the young men, she told us that they were safe and sound and she promised that they will be returned to Central Methodist Church in Johannesburg for safekeeping at Bishop Storey.  We prayed and we left".

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   Father Mkhatsa?