Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

DR RANDERA: Is Mr Chauke here yet?  Has he arrived?  No, and Mr Thelele, has he arrived?  Okay, as these gentlemen have not arrived yet, can I suggest that we break for tea and come back at twenty five to twelve.  Thank you very much.  Has Mr Thelele arrived?  ...(indistinct) the Director General for Safety and Security.  How do pronounce ...(indistinct)
 Can I please call Jeanet Ramakokovhu.  Yes, I know.  Is Jeanet here?  Will you, will you call her in.  Whilst we're waiting for the next witness, can I welcome the Director General for Safety and Security, Mr Saad Kitjalje.  Can you please stand so that your people can see you.  Welcome.  Mr Chauke or Mathiya Thelele or Tshalo Moraba is present in the audience, if you are.  Welcome Mr Moraba.  Right, Jeanet is here.  Is Jeanet here?  Okay Russel, will, shall we call yours first then.  Can I please ask Sarah Sekhwama to come forward please.  Can I also announce that I said earlier on that we have a statement taker from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in one of the halls at the back.  We also launched on Monday of the Easter Week-end what we call the des, the designative statement taking drive.  These are people who are living within the communities who have been given training by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to continue taking statements because often the impression is created that people are only asked to make statements for a hearing.  Remember the Mandate of the Commission goes on until the fourteenth of December 1996 and therefore people have the right to make statements.  Our pro-active statement taking drive will stop at the end of July but there's no reason why people cannot still send a statement in directly to the offices of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission but we have three people who have been trained from this area, Mr Alfred Chisane, Maurice Mbealane and Libowani Matuse who are also present in the hall to-day and I will announce at the end of the day where they will continue to be taking statements in Messina and the surrounding areas between, between now and the end of July.  So please, there's lot's of opportunity to, for people who have not made statements to come forward and make their statement.  I want to also say that we, as you've heard to-day, a number of people have been mentioned who, who were involved in the, in the violations that took place.  In terms of the, of a ruling that was made at the appellate division of courts of our country, we have to inform these perpetrators, alleged perpetrators that their names are going to be used where the name has been mentioned in a statement.  So every person's name that you are hearing to-day, that person has been informed and has the right actually to respond if he or she wishes, if they were here to-day.  All right?  So this is Jeanet no this is Sarah.  Hey? Annikie.  Annikie, welcome.  Can you hear me?  Okay.

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, I can hear you.

DR RANDERA: Mr, Dr Russel Ally is going to be helping you as you tell your statement but before he does that, will you please stand to take the oath.  Joyce!

UNKNOWN: I'll as you, Annikie to raise your hand and say, what you'll tell us will be the truth so, please help me God.

MS SEKHWAMA: (sworn states)

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  You can sit down.

RUSSELL ALLY: Annikie, welcome and thank you for coming.  You're actually coming to speak on behalf of your sister Sarah and you're going to speak about something that happened to Sarah in 1990 where Sarah was the victim of a shooting and you're also going to tell us what effect this had, this shooting on, on Sarah's life.  So I'm going to ask you if you would just please go through the, the statement which you made to us.  If you would, if you would just go th, through that for us.  Thank you.

MS SEKHWAMA: It was in 1992 and we were marching.  Sarah left us and she joined the people who were marching and we were marching value added tax next to the tavern.  A police van came next to us and there was a Black policeman with lots of  White policemen.  I wanted to ask Sarah where she was going to and she said she was sent to go and fetch Keith's clothes.  While I was talking to Sarah I saw the Black policeman, who was looking at us, who was inside the car, started shooting at us and he shot Sarah, my older sister and she fell down.  I was shocked and people started coming to us because we were crying and they tried to help Sarah, to rush her to the hospital.  My cousin's car came and fetched Sarah to the hospital and those policemen were very much against us and they didn't want us to take Sarah.  They stopped, tried to stop us to take Sarah to the hospital but after we explained to them that we were rushing her to the hospital, they released us.  When we got to the clinic, they transferred her to the hospital.  We stayed there for two days and we decided to go to the police camp to give a statement.  I've forgotten the name of the police whom we gave the statement because it's a long time ago.
 We waited for a long time and nothing was happening because every time ther were lots of strikes and lots of cases were just disappearing.  When I was asking the police what were they doing about my sister's case, they referred me to the other guy who was left at the time, who was transferred.  He explained to me that the guy who was handling that case had resigned.  I stayed for some time and I went back to ask what was happening with the case because my sister had three kids and that, that other eye which was affected was affecting the other eye too so she couldn't get work and she could not support her kids.  Also my family could not support her because they, we've, we have many at home.  They did not do anything to help me until to-day.

RUSSELL ALLY: Annikie, thank you for that.  Sorry, I should have asked the person sitting next to you.  Is that your sister ?  Who's sitting next to you?

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes she's my sister.

RUSSELL ALLY: Welcome to, to her as well.  Just a few questions, Annikie.  First, this incident, was it in 1992 or 1990 because in your statement, the dates which are given or the date which was given is in August 1990 but when you spoke now you said, in 1992.  Now this is important if we are going to, to follow up on, on this matter, so, do you, do you have a clear idea?

MS SEKHWAMA: I actually have forgotten the date because when she was shot, she had a kid at the time.  That was in 1992.

RUSSELL ALLY: .Does this event which took place, which you, you're not sure about the date but you th, it was either 1990 or 1992.  It was a protest march.  Who organized this march?

MS SEKHWAMA: It's the whole community.  We decided that we should take, we should march against VAT to the camp.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sorry, repeat that, where, where were you marching to?

MS SEKHWAMA: We were going to the police camp.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this was a march to protest against, against VAT, against Value Added Tax and you were marching to the police camp.  Now can you tell us a little bit about what was happening during the march?

MS SEKHWAMA: I have forgotten what we were actually marching for.

RUSSELL ALLY: I think that what you're saying is that the march was against VAT but  you can't actually remember the details of what was happening on that day.

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, that's what I mean.

RUSSELL ALLY: When the police approached you people marching, did they issue any warnings or did they just start shooting?  Can, can you remember what, the sequence of events?

MS SEKHWAMA: These policemen they actually were against any march in the area because they thought we wanted to fight them.  When they see people singing, protest, protesting or demonstrating they were attacking us.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now in your statement, you actually mentioned the person who you, who you say was responsible for, for shooting your sister.  Who shot at your sister.  How do, how do you know this?