Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Because he agreed I then thought he may know them from meetings before or if he did not know them I think he would not have agreed to move with them.

ADV SIGIDI: And he only fled or jumped out of the kombi when you identified yourself as a policeman?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Ma'am.

ADV SIGIDI: What did you do when you identified yourself? Did you tell him that you were arresting him or what did you say? Did you just say I am a policeman or what?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I took my appointment card out and gave it to him and he took my appointment card to his hand and looked at it and Bra Mos told him that he is under arrest at the time.

ADV SIGIDI: And he immediately jumped out through the window?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Ma'am.

ADV SIGIDI: And the other aspect which sort of puzzles me is the fact that you never knew him and when you went to arrest him or you were told by these people that they were askaris, did you believe him? Did you believe them when they told you that he was a terrorist?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Because there was a conversation in the kombi I could here that they are talking about their experiences of training outside of the country and then I believed them.

ADV SIGIDI: Was it the first time that you were working with askaris then or had you worked with askaris before?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was the first time.

ADV SIGIDI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I understand that before you proceeded to arrest well to go to the house where the deceased was you proceeded to Nxala security offices. Whose idea was it that you should first go to Nxala security offices?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was my idea.

CHAIRPERSON: What were your concerns?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I had heard that I was not driving with policemen. I was moving with trained terrorists and that insight told me I was not safe myself now and according to the knowledge that I had when you get to any area, when you get to another area you are compelled to go and report to those police there to tell them that you are coming to operate within that area.

CHAIRPERSON: And then when you arrived at Nxala security office did you get out of the kombi to go into the offices?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Who did you speak to there?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Constable Noma.

CHAIRPERSON: And what did you tell him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I told him that we were around here in Nxala to come and do some work and then I told him that we come to fetch somebody called Batandwa Ndondo. And I asked them as to how we could get hold of that person and he told me that he had just passed the police station driving a Golf car going to the direction where he stays. Truly we had met a Golf that passed us.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you get the impression that the police at the security branch at Nxala knew the deceased fairly well?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did Constable Noma comment on the activities of the deceased?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He did not make any comments.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he indicate to you that they were also looking for him perhaps or that they were monitoring his movements?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No he did not say anything to that. He did not make any comment. He did not say or show that they were also after him.

CHAIRPERSON: And then from there you then proceeded to the house where the car was parked I think you said?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were under the impression from the conversation you had heard with Bra Mos, Shosha and Shabalala that you were going to arrest a trained terrorist right?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you perhaps consider the deceased to be somewhat dangerous?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And when you approached the house what safety precautions did you take before approaching the house?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I just moved out of the kombi going to the house knowing that the person does not know me.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have your firearm with you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I had my firearm with me.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you please explain to us firstly the sitting arrangement in the kombi? This is a Hi-Ace is it right?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How many seats did it have, rows of seats? You have the driver's and the passenger's seat?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: There is the back seat, the front seat, the one before that one and another and the back seat.

CHAIRPERSON: And how were you seated in the car just before the deceased entered the kombi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Bra Mos sat in the driver's, Shabalala passenger's seat. Myself behind them. Shosha at the back seat.

CHAIRPERSON: The seat immediately behind you was that vacant?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when the deceased entered the kombi where did he sit?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: At the seat behind me.

CHAIRPERSON: You then gave him your appointment card and then he was told by Bra Mos that he is under arrest?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you then describe to us how the accused managed to get out of the kombi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He opened the car window, the one to the sliding door at the back door and he jumped out.

CHAIRPERSON: And what were you doing when he was doing all this?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I tried to catch him with his leg because his whole upper body was outside the kombi.

CHAIRPERSON: But he was behind you was he not?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: At what stage did you see him? Did you see him as he was opening the window or was he already half out of the kombi when you saw him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I saw him when he was half out. And I then quickly grabbed him with his foot.

CHAIRPERSON: What drew your attention to him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: When he was told that he was under arrest I then realised that he was trying to run away because he knew that he was under arrest.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that. He only by the time you looked at him he was already half way out of the car.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What I want to know is what is it that drew your attention to him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: As I have already said before that we were going to arrest him.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand your evidence you were sitting at a seat just in front of where he was seated right?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And he was behind you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the window that he went through was that the window that was behind you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was on my side to my behind.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you looking at him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He returned my appointment certificate and I put it in my pocket when I turned to look at him I saw him half way out of the window.

CHAIRPERSON: So you gave him the appointment certificate and he returned it to you, you put it in and by the time you look at him he was already half way out of the car?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And Shosha was sitting right at the back?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did Shosha warn you that here is a man who is trying to escape?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I did not hear anything.

CHAIRPERSON: He did not say anything either?

CHAIRPERSON: I did not see him opening the window it was closed. I did not see him opening the window but I know that it was closed before he had opened it.

CHAIRPERSON: It must have been very stupid of the deceased to have attempted to get out of the kombi in front of all these police officers in the car? Do you accept that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Please repeat your question?