Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-25

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: We have been handed some documentation now, while you were asking questions, Ms Thabethe.  I've got three bundles here, one is headed "Proceedings in terms of Section 29, held at Durban on the 27th of November 1996", and it would seem that this relates to the Section 29 hearing of Mr Taylor.
	Then there is an affidavit, fairly lengthy affidavit, dated the 11th of December 1996 which was deposed to be, we will get that in order now, by Taylor, and then there is a letter containing a whole lot of questions.  This letter is written by one, S. Govender, Head of Investigations, and it is undated for some unknown reason.
	Should we give these exhibit numbers now, I think they can go in as a group.  It will be Exhibit Q, so Q1 will be the proceedings in terms of Section 29, Q1.  Q2 will be the letter, I would presume, would be the letter written by Mr or Ms Govender, and Q3 will be the affidavit and I think, it is tea time, but  I think let's see if we can finish with Ms Miller here.
	Do you have any questions to ask, Mr Lax?

MR LAX: I have no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Adv Bosman?  Ms Miller, that concludes your evidence, thank you, but I would request you please, if you could just stay here, because there might be questions arising out of Exhibit Q.
WITNESS EXCUSED
	This would then be a convenient stage to take the short tea adjournment.  We will adjourn for tea.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair, I will be calling Ms Dludla, the neighbour.

MR VISSER: Chairperson, just before that happens, there are two matters which I believe should be raised.  The one is the issue of further cross-examination of Ms Miller and the other matter, Chairperson, is that I am given to understand Mr Joe Coetzer have responded to a subpoena to be here and he is present.
	Apparently he wishes to be released if he is not going to be called as a witness.  He is here, I thought I might just mention it to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: I don't appear for him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Visser.

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair, I have communicated with Mr Joe Coetzer after speaking to Mr John Wills who requested us to issue the subpoena in the first place, he does not intend testifying and I spoke to John Wills that we will withdraw the subpoena.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: I have communicated that to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Coetzer, is Mr Coetzer here?  Mr Coetzer, have you heard what has been said?  Apparently you won't be called as a witness, and you are accordingly released from the subpoena, and we apologise for the inconvenience.  Thank you.
	Sorry, with regard to the Section 29 of Mr Taylor, have you had time to go through those documents, or do you wish to have more time before you want to make a decision whether you want to put further questions about that?

MR VISSER: Thank you for the opportunity Chairperson, Visser on record.  We have gone through that, and it does not appear that anything that is contained in those documents, in that Exhibit Q affects any of my clients, so I will leave it to Mr Nel to take further.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Visser.  Mr Nel?

MR NEL: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I haven't got cross-examination as such, but there are one or two things that I would like to put to Ms Miller, if she is available, we can do that after this witness, I really do not have a problem with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR NEL: Whenever she is available, I see she is not in here at the moment.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and Mr Hugo?

MR HUGO: No questions, Mr Chairman, it does not affect my client.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Merwe?

MR VAN DER MERWE: No questions for me either, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills, will you be wanting to put any further questions?

MR WILLS: No Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Samuel?

MR SAMUEL: No Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.  Then Ms Thabethe, perhaps Ms Miller could be recalled briefly after Ms Dludla and then she can be finished.  Sorry is it Mrs or Ms Dludla.

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Mrs Dludla.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Dludla, what are your full names please?  Your full names?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Jabulile Rose Dludla.

CHAIRPERSON: Jabulile?

MS THABETHE: Spelt J-a-b-u-l-i-l-e.

CHAIRPERSON: Jabulile?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Rose.

CHAIRPERSON: Rose Dludla?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes.

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: Mrs Dludla, where do you live?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, we didn't get the interpretation, it did not come through, the answer?  I think she said kwaMashu?  I heard it faintly?  I think if you could just repeat the question again as a test, Ms Thabethe.

MS THABETHE: Where do you live?

CHAIRPERSON: We still did not get the interpretation.

MR LAX: Yes, we cannot get the interpreter.

CHAIRPERSON: If you can try again, Ms Thabethe?  Are you swopping seats?  Channel 1, a change of channel, so it is channel 1 now, for English, channel 1?  Thank you.  The answer to the question is, where do you live, the answer was kwaMashu.

MS THABETHE: During April/May 1987, did you live at kwaMashu?

CHAIRPERSON: We are getting, Ian, there is a screaming noise going on?  Okay, let's try again.  You lived in kwaMashu during May 1987?

MS THABETHE: How far from the Kubheka house did you live?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (No interpretation)

MS THABETHE: So you were neighbours?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (No interpretation)

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Chairperson, maybe I am on the wrong channel, but I am not picking up the translation.

CHAIRPERSON: Channel 1.

MR WILLS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: They chanced it to channel 1 for English.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: The answer to that was she lived, there was one house between her house and the Kubheka's house, she lived one house away from the Kubheka's.

MS THABETHE: Mrs Dludla, can you just tell us what took place on the day when Ntombi was last seen by you?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (No translation)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, about what time of the day was this, Mrs Dludla?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (No interpretation)

CHAIRPERSON: Was it day light?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: (No interpretation)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair.   Do you remember the date by any chance, or the month when this was?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No I do not remember the month, but what I can remember very well is that after two weeks she disappeared, there was a June holiday, in other words, school holiday.

MS THABETHE: Now, did you see the dress that was displayed here a few days ago, last week?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes, I did.

MR LAX: Sorry, Ms Thabethe, there were three dresses displayed here in the last day or so, you need to be a bit clear about which one.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we've got Exhibit 1 and then we've got the blue dress and the dark dress.

MS THABETHE: Maybe I should rephrase my question, Mr Chairman.   Would you say you remember or would you remember what Ms Kubheka was wearing that day, on the day?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I didn't remember very well what dress she was wearing, but since she was a close person to me, when I saw the dresses I recognised the other dresses, one of the dresses she was wearing on the day.

MS THABETHE: There were three dresses that were shown on that day, which one would be the one she was wearing?  Maybe let me lead you on this.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you could describe, can you describe the dress now?

MS THABETHE: Yes.  Was she wearing the green dress?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, not the green one, the one with a maroon colour, the floral one.

MS THABETHE: Did she have anything on besides the dress, that was visible?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes, she had a T-shirt or a poloneck underneath.

MS THABETHE: What did it look like, can you describe it if you can?  You say it was a skipper?