Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... was that took you to the hospital?

WITNESS:   I heard when I was at the hospital already that I was helped by the Dlamini family.  They took me and put inside the house, and I was taken to the clinic.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... how many times you were shot?  Do you know how many bullets they extracted from your body?

WITNESS:   Two bullets pierced my body, and eight at the back.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... recovered, and when you were back at home, you said that two policemen came to see you, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, they came, one black policeman as well as one white policeman.  They asked whether there was a boy.  Then my sister told them that I was asleep.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... to you.

WITNESS:   Yes, they said my sister should call me, and at that time I couldn't walk, so I took my crutches, I went out.  They asked me what had happened to me.  I told them I had been shot by the police.  They asked me whether I knew the policemen who had shot me.  I told them that I did not know them, I last saw them when they shot me.  Then they asked me whether I had made a statement, and they said there was an ANC attorney who helps people in my situation.  Then they said I must sign a statement.  They asked me whether I wanted to make a case.  I said no because I hadn't spoken to my parents.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   I never did, because I knew that police would come back and kill me, because they were the ones who shot me initially.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... to make a statement and pursue a case against the police.

WITNESS:   Because the police came to ask me.  They told me that if I was trying to make a case against the police I would not be successful.

MR ZWANE: At a later stage did you apply for a disability grant?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... disability grant?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am getting the money, but it's - the amount is too little.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... your income in any other way?

WITNESS:  No, I am not able, because the money I was earning when I was working was - the amount was far larger than the one I am earning now.  Because before then I could fend for myself, but now since I am not working the money that they are giving me is not really satisfactory.

MR ZWANE: (Inaudible) ... my fellow Commissioners whether there's anything they want to ask.

MR DLAMINI: Sipho, at work did they give you any monies, like pension, after you left your work?

WITNESS:   They gave me my leave payment and my salary.

MR DLAMINI: It means they did give you your leave pay and the money that - they gave you your leave pay and your salary?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: And then nothing else?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   I studied up to standard six, and I left school while I was doing standard six.

MR DLAMINI: With reference to the questions that have been asked by Commissioner Dlamini, I know that as a young man you are not feeling well.  Maybe you wish that we can help you to get some work where you will be able to work at home.  What do you think - how do you think we can help you?

WITNESS:   I can do any job, whether it's tailoring - any job like welding.  I might like to do that.  But the problem is that I have a problem with my eyes, but I don't think I will be able to do welding.

MR DLAMINI: Don't you have any job that you might like to do?

WITNESS:   I might like to do anything to do with my hands, but not anything to do with welding.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... coming in and telling us your story.  It seems that there was no case whatsoever.  This is probably the first time you've ever had a chance to relate this story formally.  You lived in Mpophomeni township during a very turbulent period, and, as I said to one of the earlier witnesses, when the Truth Commission writes a report to the Government we will have to devote a large amount of space and time to the happenings in Mpophomeni township because there was such a lot of suffering in that township.  You've said that on the day in question you were going to work, and a large group of armed men, armed with traditional weapons, from the neighbouring Inkatha area, came down into the township, and that as far as you could see they were being assisted by armed policemen.  And on your way to work you were shot six or eight times, and as a result of that you are partially paralysed.

MR LYSTER: We extend our deep sympathy to you.  As you have heard me say earlier on, we are not able to assist you directly, but we will be making recommendations to the State President and to the Government as to how you, and other people like you who have suffered so badly, should be assisted, and we are very grateful that you have come here to tell us that story.

MR LYSTER: So thank you again for coming in, and we wish you well as you leave us now.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: SIPHO KUBHEKA

MR LYSTER: Good day, Mr Kubheka.  We are grateful to have you in front of us today.  We would like to hear about your harassment, but before you can tell us more about the way in which you were harassed we would like you to tell us more about yourself and your family.

WITNESS:   I have got the wife.  I have got five children, four daughters and one son.

MR LYSTER: We have heard about your family.  What are your children doing?

WITNESS:   One of them was studying at university.  She is finished, and the other one is still studying.  One is still at Technikon, and the younger one is schooling at our place.

MR LYSTER: Can you tell us more about yourself.  Are you working?

WITNESS:   I am not working at the moment, but I do do some jobs with - I am not working, but I do have a bakkie which I use in the community.

MR LYSTER: Can you please tell us as to whether you belong to any political organisation?  Tell us how old you were at the time you were harassed, and the other events as to what was happening at that time.

WITNESS:   I was 35 years old.  That was the time I was arrested.  I was a member of the ANC, the underground movement, because the ANC was banned at that time.  I was the organiser and I had to teach people about politics.

MR LYSTER: We heard about your involvement within the ANC.  Can you take us further and explain how you were harassed from 1975, November?

WITNESS:   I would like to say that I was working at Edendale Hospital as a clerk.  At night, it was about 7.00 pm, boers came and they dressed privately.

MR LYSTER: Can you please speak up.

WITNESS:   They asked me, "Are "you Sipho?"   I said, "Yes, I am Sipho."  They said, "Take your keys, give them to someone here in the hospital.  We want you, we are taking you with us."  I did as they said.  They took me and put me into a car and off we went.  When we arrived at Loop Street they put me into an office.  The one who was - this was the Special Branch, and they started questioning me and they said to me, "Today we have found you."  They cross-questioned me and I didn't know what they were asking me about.  And this man Dreyer, who was the commander, he asked me, "Are you the one who is preaching politics to the people?"  I didn't answer him, I just kept quiet.  Then he asked me, "What are you people doing?  There are some people escaping the country.  How do you help them?"  I told him I don't know anything about that.  He told me some people will work me out.  It was at night.  Some other white police arrived, and they took me to Loop Street in a certain room.  They asked me the same question that Dreyer asked me about my political preachings.

MR LYSTER: Can I just disturb you just for a moment?  I would like to ask you two questions.  What exactly were you teaching the people?

WITNESS:   We were teaching them about politics.  We want people to go underground so that they can fight for freedom.