Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-13

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Selone, can I just remind you, you've used up 25 minutes of your time.

MR SHILOWA: Okay.  Thank you very much.  The - without going to the detail, we raise the issue of child labour.  We've given an example of the racial work place and the whole issue of gender.  I think there are some graphs, Chairperson, that we have given you that shows the way in which, if you look at the new one on page 27, in terms of income distribution, women as a percentage of earners in annual income, 1991, not that very old.  It's there for you to see.
 We think you really have got to take that into account.  If you look on page 28, we've shown the whole issue of women as a percentage of the labour force in each occupational category.
 The other things which I think the Commission have got to look into, is the real issues of suffering.  Not about whether business profited in terms of money.  Apartheid wages, we were paid Apartheid wages.  Now, indeed, if all of us were to launch claims for lost wages, I think we would be able to do so and that's not what we want to do that.  
 We don't want to claim for lost wages, but we do want to say the Truth Commission must say from now onwards, at least reparation must be the living wage.  But that's only if it has accepted that the Apartheid wage was a problem.  So these are some of the areas which I think you may need to be able to look at.   
 I won't deal with the Kinross disaster, because it is said that a - some of the things are there and we may give one or two examples.
 I want to conclude by dealing with three issues very, very briefly.  Now, because you have as Commissioners our documents, if you look on point five, one, six.  That 5.1.6 is an experience of a vice president of National Union of Mine workers, which for those who don't have the document, I'll sort of just read it very very briefly.  I promise you I won't take more than a minute on that issue.
 Now, you see, it says:
 "Mr Zonkwana testified about the use of the mining language, Funigalore, it's part of the humiliation by the way, although his ...(tape ends)

MR SHILOWA: ... workers found this offensive as (indistinct) in this regard.  We wish to refer the TRC to an English to Funigalore dictionary published by the Chamber which was revised in 1985 and printed as recently as 1990."
Now, this is in 1990 when they really say we have come on board.  That's really what they do in that particular situation.  So I just want to give you that, because I think it's an example which many workers have gone through.
 I'm giving the example of Zogwana, because they would argue that the natives could not speak the queen's language. Zogwana can speak both English and Afrikaans, yet that's what he has to do, but they also give in that dictionary, it has got names.  In you spare time, it's really good reading.  It says - it says a mine leader a gang leader, something like that, a miner.  The translation in Funigalore, what does it say?  Baas.  From our revolutionary business people. 
 My second last example is found on 5.2.0 and here (indistinct) behind me, according to the mines and Munro, he should not be a lawyer, because he is a Mosotho and the mines say the Basothos are known in the mines, the genetical skills that they have, is as sharp thinkers.
 It's there, Chairperson.  You can look at it.  It says:
"Basotho people from Lesotho excelled in the art of sharp thinking.   The Zulu speaking people are excellent in production sections, like the Swazi's in drilling machines."
They said the Xhosas excelled in smelting operations and running furnishes.  They were also good at doing operational jobs, such as driving logos and operating scoop trams.
 The Tswana skills did not immediately come to mind.  He could not remember.  The Shangaan - the Shangaans, people from Mozambique are very good mechanical people.  So, we're giving you all of those as some of the examples in that situation.
 The final point I want to make is that we have some proposals that we are making to yourself as the Commission, because I don't want to come back after Jay in that sense, without going to all of these proposals, if I can summarise them, as firstly.  We're saying that our submission show that Black workers in particular Africans and women, were victims of Apartheid.
 Secondly, that we now require systematic redress for this injustice and thirdly we then say let's differentiate between business coalition with Apartheid regime in terms of loans which is what they really say.
 You know, that we are willing to plead guilty to.  So, we're willing to let them off the hook on that one and the business violation of human and trade union rights of workers under Apartheid which include directly using Apartheid legislation, pass laws, compounds and so forth.
 We then say if we are serious, we think we've got to deal with the issue of reparation.  Under 6.6 we say:
"If the only meaningful reparation is a future without abuse, it hinges on how you define abuses.  If abuses is to pay starvation wages, then the reparation is a living wage.  If it's to force minors unemployment, the the reparation becomes employment creation."
There are others that we raise in terms of the recognition of unions in other areas.
 Secondly, we raise the point about the closing of the wage gap and I have a supplementary version which I'll pass over to you, which also adds into the future.
 We also deal with the issue of the workers museum.  But we're not asking - talking about building new ones.  There are indeed existing Apartheid museums which are being kept by our own tax payers' money.  It's high time that one of them is dedicated to the heroic struggles of workers.
 The point about capital flight was dealt with yesterday, but we've also made an issue there.  But we also think you must look at something called a reconstruction bond.  No one in South Africa is not committed to reconstruction.  We believe we should concede a reconstruction bond and finally, to look at redistribution and reconciliation.
 We think really the way in which we must move forward is to say the following.  Reconciliation and redistribution equals peace and justice.  Jay?

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Selone.