Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-28

CHARLES ZWANE: I am referring to the team which was named as Mandela's Football Club Club.

MS HASSEN: So that is when the idea of the Mandela United Football Club came about?

CHARLES ZWANE: That is when the idea came about of the formation of the Mandela Football Club.

MS HASSEN: Why Football?

CHARLES ZWANE: Football was our township sport, we black were in fact not having options in other sports, the only sport we had an option in, was only soccer for boys in our black townships.

MS HASSEN: Was Mrs Mandela present when the youth suggested this?

CHARLES ZWANE: I can't hear the question.

MS HASSEN: Was Mrs Mandela present when the youth suggested that a Football Club should be formed?

CHARLES ZWANE: I don't think she was present.

MS HASSEN: All right.  A Football Club was eventually formed am I right?

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes, you are right.

MS HASSEN: Were you involved in this formation?

CHARLES ZWANE: In fact I was arrested in the process of the formation of the Football Club.

MS HASSEN: All right, do you know if Mrs Mandela assisted the Football Club in any way?

CHARLES ZWANE: Well, I assumed that she is the one that bought the kit for the team, though I don't have direct information.

MS HASSEN: You mentioned just now that you were arrested.  Was this for the murder of Xola Makahula?

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes, of course.

MS HASSEN: Can you tell us more about the death of Xola Makahula, about the events leading up to it?

CHARLES ZWANE: In fact the events leading to the death of Xola Makahula, it was in 1987 if my memory still serves me well, I was at Mrs Mandela's place, sitting with my friend who was also a friend to Zinzi Mandela, that was Sitambiso and a certain MK guy visited the room while we were sitting there and he was in the possession of an AK47, and we sat with the guy and he taught me the use of an AK47 and at a later stage, at that stage I was in possession of a Scorpio sub-machine pistol, and of which he saw, on his departure he requested that I borrow him the Scorpio sub-machine pistol because he was going to travel by taxi's and the AK47 was too big for him to travel by taxi with.

MS HASSEN: If I can just stop you for a minute Charles, how is it that you were in possession of that firearm?

CHARLES ZWANE: By then I was already recruited by the MK cadres, so I was an underground MK by then, that is why I was in possession of such a firearm.

MS HASSEN: And when you refer to Sitambiso, you are referring to Sitambiso Buthelezi.

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes, of course.

MS HASSEN: All right, and then what happened?

CHARLES ZWANE: Then (indistinct) left with my Scorpio to where he was going and he left behind the AK47, of which I spent some time in Zinzi's room with it, because I couldn't go home with it until it was dark.
 While we were still sitting there, Oupa (indistinct) came back with a story that he was robbed of a Scorpio somewhere at an area at Zola and we drove with him from Mrs Mandela's place with the car which he came with  and another car which was belonging to Mrs Mandela, the red Audi, we took the AK47.  I handed it to Oupa (indistinct) at that stage I was in possession of two hand grenades and we drove with the other guys.  There were other guys who were at the house.
 We drove with two cars to Zola to try and recover that Scorpion that was robbed of Oupa (indistinct) at Zola.

MS HASSEN: In whose car did you go?

CHARLES ZWANE: Can you repeat the question?

MS HASSEN: In whose car were you travelling?

CHARLES ZWANE: We were travelling with two cars, the other one it belongs to a guy called Benjamin, the other one was belonging to Mrs Mandela.

MS HASSEN: All right, and who was the driver of the vehicle in which you were?

CHARLES ZWANE: The driver of the vehicle I was in, was Mr Sitambiso Buthelezi.

MS HASSEN: All right, what happened then?

CHARLES ZWANE: We stopped - we were following a yellow car, we didn't know where we were going to, so we followed the yellow Opel car that stopped at the certain house at Zola and we got out of the car, only the drivers stayed in the car.
 We entered the house and we apprehended one of the guys which Oupa and the other guys got hold of him, and he pointed us the other house, four houses from where we stopped.  We walked by foot to that house and the cars followed us.
 When we were approaching the house, there were a group of guys sitting at the outside stoep and when they saw us, they ran away and Oupa started shooting with an AK47.

MS HASSEN: All right.  Just now you alleged that there were more than two of you in this vehicle.  Who are this other people that you are talking about?

CHARLES ZWANE: As I have already stated, when we went to the car, there were other guys there, the guys who were in the process of forming the team, so they were also at Mrs Mandela's place during our departure to Zola, so some of them got into the car with us.

MS HASSEN: So you all went together?

CHARLES ZWANE: We all went together.

MS HASSEN: All right, now you are approaching this other house?

CHARLES ZWANE: And we got the guys sitting on the stoep, when they saw us they ran away.  And Oupa started shooting at them.

MS HASSEN: Can you continue and tell us what happened thereafter?

CHARLES ZWANE: Then we went in the house, through the back door, I stood in the door.  Oupa (indistinct), he asked for the Scorpio and there was a noise in the house and I heard the voice of a woman saying that the Scorpio was at a call box, the firearm was at a call box and I went to the call box and I found the Scorpio, but they took the magazine away.
 And I asked for the other magazine from Oupa, I put the magazine in and I just started shooting in the air, that the firearm was still working, and it didn't shoot and I took the magazine out only to find out that the bullets were not properly placed there and I found out that the firearm was working properly.
 Hearing that the magazine had missed, followed one of the guys inside the house, I followed after him, because I was already armed by then.  The guy closed the door, and I shot a single bullet through the door.  Oupa pushed the door and got inside the room.  I retreated back and I heard two shots after that and we ran away.

MS HASSEN: Did you go into the room after Oupa had shot to see what had happened?

CHARLES ZWANE: I never went into the room to see what had happened.

MS HASSEN: All right, thereafter you say you ran away?

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes.

MS HASSEN: And where did you go to?

CHARLES ZWANE: I was dropped off at my parents' place.

MS HASSEN: By whom?

CHARLES ZWANE: By Sitambiso Buthelezi.

MS HASSEN: All right, what happened then, what happened the next day?

CHARLES ZWANE: The next day I went to visit Mrs Mandela's place as most of my friends by then were staying there before going to the school, I went there and the police arrived and they arrested every boy who was there, except me as I was seated in the main house watching the TV with the young children.

MS HASSEN: All right.  Were you ever arrested for this crime thereafter?

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes, a few days later I was pointed out by the guys and Oupa (indistinct), I was arrested for the murder.

MS HASSEN: You got arrested for the murder of Xola?

CHARLES ZWANE: Of Xola Makahula and one other.

MS HASSEN: All right, was there a trial?

CHARLES ZWANE: There was a trial and at the trial court I was acquitted on charges of murder and was sentenced to one year, to five years suspended for the possession of unlawful firearm, that is the Scorpio I have mentioned.

MS HASSEN: All right, you say you were an MK cadre at this point in time?

CHARLES ZWANE: Yes.

MS HASSEN: Under whose command were you?

CHARLES ZWANE: By then I was commanded by a guy called Vusile (indistinct)

MS HASSEN: All right, do you know anything about this V?