Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-05-25

CHAIRPERSON: This is another one of many applications
to be heard by the Amnesty Committee. Before we proceed, just for the purposes of the record, I am Judge Pillay and I am going to ask my colleagues to announce themselves for the same purpose and those who are appearing.

MR LAX: Good morning, I am Ilan Lax, a member of the Amnesty Committee.

DR TSOTSI: I am Dr Tsotsi, an attorney in Port Elizabeth.

MR VABAZA: I am Vabaza, M W, an attorney from Queenstown representing the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vabaza, do you represent all the applicants?

MR VABAZA: Yes, Judge, all three applicants.

MS MTANGA: I am Lulama Mtanga, an Evidence Leader appearing for the Truth Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vabaza?

MR VABAZA: Chairperson, could I start by calling the first applicant?

CHAIRPERSON: Before you do so, I just need to inform you that this Committee is not going to decide what the applicants are applying for. You are going to have to lead the evidence and tell us what you are seeking at the end of the day.

MR VABAZA: I'll proceed to call the first applicant to give evidence. The first applicant will be Mthetheli Crosby Kolela.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kolela could you state what language you prefer to use?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Xhosa.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, have you any objections to the taking of the oath?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: No, sir.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON EXPLAINS CHANNELS

MR VABAZA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. Mr Kolela, is it correct that you reside at 1448 Babanisa Township?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, sir.

MR VABAZA: And that you are a councillor in King William's Town presently?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR VABAZA: You have made an application before the Amnesty Committee? That is correct?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR VABAZA: What are you requesting the Committee to grant amnesty to you for?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: First of all, Sir, I would like to thank the Amnesty Committee by giving me this opportunity to make this submission today. I want to give a clear picture as to what happened in October 1992 after the Bisho massacre of which I think everyone knows about it, as it was an international and national issue. People from King William's Town and the neighbouring parts were not very pleased by being massacred dead. They were even chased, even at their own places of residence. Most of the people were living like animals. Only one organisation that was the public enemy, that is, African National Congress, the one that I am still serving in. At the time, I was a chairperson of Payamisa branch in King William's Town.
	Conditions at the time forced the people of King William's Town and the Border regions and the neighbouring parts to try and protect themselves and defend themselves against the attacks from the government of Brigadier Gozo. And the only enemy was the African National Congress. The only enemy of the government. At the time the only political organisation that could attack Gozo's government as was against was the African National Congress.
	If the people will remember well, the Bisho Massacre was the result of the conflict between Brigadier Gozo's government and African National Congress. The killing of the people did not end there. People would be attacked even at their places of residence.
	I want to come to the incident that took place in October 1984. In 1992 when we were arrested I was with Bafo Ngqunge and the place where we were arrested. On that particular day we were at Tembeni at a road block. It was in the morning at about 2 am, we were from our mission that failed. The first mission was to disarm and ambush the soldiers who were at Frankfort Hotel drinking there. The reasons being this - we received an instruction from our commander of the unit at the time, that was Comrade Xoliswe Sotyifa.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he an MK Commander?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell us exactly what the order was.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: The order, the first one, we were instructed to go and take the firearms from the soldiers who were drinking at Frankfort Hotel. The aim was to add to the weapons that we had at the organisation, that is the African National Congress, under the command of Comrade Sotyifa. We aborted the mission because we could not find the soldiers.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is Frankfort Hotel?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: The Frankfort Hotel is situated at about 15 km from King William's Town, I think it is 5 km from the place where we were arrested, that is at Tembeni. It is within the King William's Town area ... (intervention)

MR LAX: Sorry, ladies, you haven't pressed the button, we're not hearing the translation.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: The second mission was to go and kill the policeman ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I want to know everything about the first mission. You were saying - let me ask you, let me ask you certain questions, perhaps. You say you were the first applicant. Is it only two of you who went on the first mission?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were with you?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: It was Bafo Ngqunge, Mabitana Mani, Xoliswe Sotyifa, Sindile Adoni. I was the fifth one.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was the last one you said?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Sindile Adoni.

CHAIRPERSON: Good. Now, were you people armed?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, that is correct. We had two handgrenades, two F1s, 1 RG5, and one pistol called Stashkin.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have ammunition for all the pistols and firearms?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, we had ammunition for the Stashkin.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, what was this plan?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: It was like this. First of all, we were going to the place where the soldiers were drinking and on arriving there, if there was quite a number of them we would try and disperse them by the use of handgrenades. And if, perhaps, someone is firing from their side, we would use the pistol, the Stashkin, and that we would go and take their arms. The aim was to get those firearms or those weapons and use them to protect the people, because we did not have enough weapons.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: After we, after that we did not find the soldiers. We did not see the soldiers we decided to abort the first mission.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the reason you aborted the mission, because you couldn't find the soldiers?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now this plan. Armed yourself, your plan was to obtain these firearms.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: We wanted to get the weapons so that we could take them to the members of the defence units so that they can use them in trying to protect the people as we were always attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you make plans as to how you were going to effect the obtaining of these firearms? How were you going to do it?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: First of all, we did not go there with the intention to kill. Soldiers at the time were using the Frankfort Hotel. They would drink there with - they used to be armed. First of all, we would wait for them to get drunk and we would take their weapons. If perhaps they would fight, they would fight back. The weapons that we had, we were going to use them to disperse them so that if there were other people who would be following or pursuing we would try and protect ourselves with the arms that we had.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: We had a car that was driven by Mabitana Mani who is also among the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell us about the second incident now.