Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-12

RUSSELL ALLY: You also speak, in your statement, you also speak
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about you yourself having experienced harassment.  Now was this because you were also a political activist?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Yes, it is true.  These people use to harass me day and night and I was pregnant by then.  They took me to John Vorster Square where I was made to sit down on the floor.  The children were locked up in the house and my next door neighbours broke the door so that they can take the children out of the house.  There was no one who could take care of my children because I was away by that time.

RUSSELL ALLY: You say that they tortured you when they took you to John Vorster Square.  Can you tell us a little bit about that?  What did they actually do?  What kind of torture was this?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: They use to pull me by my ears, push me around and hit me against walls.  Each one of them would pull me by my ears and ask me to tell them the truth about what my husband did and I told them I was a housewife, I did not know the whereabouts of my husband.  I would not know after he left the house where he was off to and that is what I told him.  I said I was staying at home with the children and when I did not tell them what they wanted to hear from me they would slap me.  They would also pull the blankets and throw the children around in the house.  Everytime my children would see a white guy or a white person they would be scared.  They said that I had to report every day at the police station.  That is for seven days.

RUSSELL ALLY: And they knew that you were pregnant.  You told them that you were pregnant at the time when all this was happening?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Yes, I told them.  They knew about it and they asked me where my husband was.  I told them, no, my
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husband has left me and I am pregnant at the moment.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you also speak about being evicted from your house.  Was this your house?  Did you own the house or were you renting the house?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Yes, it was my house.  It was at 1448 Mapetla.  It was my house.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Mrs Boikhutso.  I am going to ask other members of the panel if they want to perhaps ask some questions, but thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mrs Boikhutso, can you tell me, you said in your statement that your husband was an active member of the ANC.  What activities was he involved in?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: He use to convene meetings and there was a first group that came that went into exile.  I was not sure, but they were full in the house and when they were sitting in the house they sent me home so that the police could not find me.  These people stayed in my house and him together with Moswaledi helped these people to go into exile.  Let me think, well, Moleka was also with them and I would ask what these people are doing here in my house and he would tell me these are ANC members.  Some of them are from PE and they were the first ones who went to exile and he helped them to go.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me after he left did he come in and out of the country between 1963 and 1968?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: No, he never came back.  I last saw him on the 22nd of October when he left for work.  Until today I have not seen him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you during this period, did you hear about whether he was involved in bombing up any offices?  Do you
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know exactly what his activities were when he left the country?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Do you mean whether he was involved in a bombing explosion?  I could not understand your question.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me when he left the country did you ever hear from anybody else about what he was involved in?  For instance was he involved in bombing up any offices in this country or do you know what he was doing in this plane when it was shot down?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: I do not know what they were doing, but what I knew was that he was ANC and they were the people who were fighting.  I would hear that an office had been bombed, but I would not know whether he took part in that or not.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also say in your statement that your husband had prepared you for what would happen is something happened to him.  Could you tell us what you meant by that?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Yes, he told me that he is a member of the Umkhonto we Sizwe and he could die any time or be arrested or he can leave the country.  That is what he told me and it was in the evening when he told me that and he left the following day.  He said to me, please take care of my children and I will contact the Welfare so that they can help you to pay rent and buy food.  He knew that I was a very ill person and I could not work.  I was also being helped by the people from the Khotso help to bring up my children and to buy food for them.  They also helped with the education for the children and Comrade Manthata is one of those people who helped me and is present here.

RUSSELL ALLY: One last question.  Were you yourself ever involved in any activities of the ANC?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Yes, I use to take part, but I use to do it
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underground.  I use to travel with my mum.  I mean, when I say mum, I mean Winnie Madike Zelemanzela, use to help me by taking clothes to give them to poor children whose fathers had been long arrested.  We use to send some money and food for such children, but I would not show my activities in front of people.  I would do these things in an underground way and we also had some Reverends to give food to people who were poor.

YASMINE SOOKA: Sorry, just two more questions.  One, did the ANC ever come back to you and tell you officially what had happened to your husband?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: No, I was not told by the ANC, I was told by the police.  That is the two police who had come to my home and when I went to the ANC offices they would tell me that they were together with my husband at the camp and when he died he fell near them.  When I asked them to tell me what happened one person who told me that he was with him, did not want to show me the book.  He told me that his name was in the book and I said to him if I could see his name in the book, because I last saw his name in The World newspaper.  They never showed me his name.  That is what worries me.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mention in your statement that you had, about your lawyer, what was the name of your lawyer?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: Do you mean the lawyer who wrote me a letter?  I cannot remember his name, but he was from the Legal Aid at that time.  I cannot remember the name.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When your husband left, besides being in the organisation, did he have any occupation?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: He use to collect dry cleans and send them
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for laundry services and otherwise he worked for the ANC.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I would ask you a question that was asked before.  You said ... were there any other names in that book of the women who had lost their husbands?

THOKOZILE CHRISTINA BOIKHUTSO: I really cannot say.  I cannot say anything about that.  I think those women have got their husbands back at the moment.  What she told me is that they were together with my husband in that camp.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My question is regarding the fact that there were other women like you who had lost their husbands like Ms Maramoti whom we heard that her husband was also in the struggle and I would like to know whether this woman ever told you about the death of her husband or did they ever hear anything.