Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-28

ADV NTSEBEZA: I want to place it on record that the information I have is that the families who obvious broke down during the showing of this video, were extensively briefed by our briefers including Commissioner Glenda Wildschut, about the footage in preparation for  today's events.  They were told that it might not be in their interest to see the video, precisely because it might lead to this sort of scenes that we have seen which we regret as a Commission, but we understand.
 But an elaborate amount of work was done by - in particular Commissioner Wildschut to indicate to them that they need not see the footage.  But I am told that they insisted that they want to know and again they were warned that in an endeavor to want to know they might get hurt emotionally and we regret the dramatics that have followed, but we also understand why it should be so.
 I am saying so because it may well be said that the Commission acted irresponsibly in this regard and insensitively.  We want to place it on record and in public that extensive care was taken to make sure that they fully understand the consequences of watching a video of this nature.
 The second aspect I want to deal with is an allegation that a shoe or a similar like missile was thrown at Mr Kleyn and Mr Knipe presumably by one of the witnesses.  I did  not see it, I don't know who saw it, clearly the gentleman also didn't see who it was, because obviously the missile came from behind their backs.  I don't want to make a finding about this matter.  I need merely say if it happened, it is something that we take a very dim view of, we understand the emotions of people who come to this proceedings carrying the sort of  trauma that is commensurate with a loss that they obviously have.
 But it must be emphasized - it must be emphasized very strongly and in the strongest terms that the Commission has a task to perform which must be performed in circumstances where it's integrity and reputation will not be undermined.  The entire aim and the broader aims of the Commission is to achieve not  only the exposure of truth, but reconciliation.  And the test, the acid test is going to be a moments like this - at moments where no version of the truth as we are trying to achieve it, should be suppressed because witnesses are not made comfortable to  testify.  
 I therefore want to appeal to everyone all in sundry, that these proceedings should never be allowed to degenerate into a gigantic vast, because they are not intended to be so.  It is a responsible Commission and the people who sit with  me on the panel, are obviously in agreement with me, that we cannot, we dare not - we cannot afford to allow the proceedings to degenerate.
 I say so on the assumption that what I have been told is true, and I say so to  assure also those who were the subject or the object of this missiles to be assured that the proceedings shall be carried under the strictest observance of the corm that befits the Commission.
 I understand that the two gentleman have then elected to wait in the waiting room until such time as their  evidence is heard.  I need to recognize the presence in our midst of Mr Brand an attorney from De Klerk en Van Gend, if you could stand Mr Brand, so that people can see you.  Mr Brand is representing five of the witnesses today, Mr Liebenberg, Mr Odendal, Mr Sterrenberg, Mr Grobbelaar, Mr Moggee.  Very welcome Mr Brand, I am sorry we could not meet earlier so  that I could place you on record at the beginning of the proceedings.

MR BRAND: Thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now having said that, we'll resume showing the video so that we can go on and deal with what remains for the rest of the day, thank you.

VERSLAGGEWER: Daar word nou weer aan die man gehaak om  die lyk om te trek.

ONBEKEND: Sewe terroriste sneuwel in Kaapstad.

VERSLAGGEWER: Die lyk word nou deursoek,   die  [onduidelik] se gesig nou van naby.

ONBEKEND: 'n Magasyn leeg geskiet - hier is nog 'n magasyn op plus een vol magasyn, die magasyn is vol.

VERSLAGGEWER: Die AK47 geweer wat by die  laaste lyk gekry is.  Jy kan duidelik sien dat daar twee van die magasynne leeg is en een magasyn is vol.  Nog steeds op die 3de Maart 1986 by nadere ondersoek is daar vasgestel dat hierdie lyk ook 'n RBG5 handgranaat daar tussen sy bene het.  Die handgranaat is eers gevind nadat die lyk gevisenteer was.

ADV NTSEBEZA: I believe this is the end of the material that is relevant and germane to this but can the technician switch it off now so that we can go on with  the rest of the proceedings.