Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MR MAY: In 1979 I joined COSAS in Port Elizabeth and then at the beginning of 1980 I went to study in Whittlesea, Sada and then at the same time we established COSAS branches in Whittlesea and  Queenstown, and then later in that year in fact mid -year around June, the police - the Ciskei police that have to harass us and then the school was closed, classes were suspended, that is in Mhlotshana  it's at a township.
 And then we were told to come back on the 11th of September 1980.  So when we came back to the school, the school yard was filled with police men holding whips and batons.  So when they saw me and a group of students coming towards the school they said here is the man we were looking for, and then they chased me around.  And there were lot of police vans around, and I tried to run away but they caught up with me.
 So I was beaten up and then until I pretended to be dead, and  then they loaded me at the back of the police van and then - by  that time a group of students have gathered in the school yard and around the school and  the policemen were charging towards the students.  And subsequently the policemen who was driving the police van drove me to Whittlesea police station where I was kept for few hours.
 And then whilst I - whilst I  was held there I heard some cries from young students who were being detained by police.  Some of them had wounds and they were crying and then later in that day at about three o'clock I was taken out of the cell into the police station.  And then at the police station there was a white policeman a tall guy and a hefty one, and then he said that he was worried that I was arrested earlier on in the day because he wanted to shoot me because of the troubles I was making in that area.
 And then after he had discussions with the Station Commander of the Whittlesea police station and then he took me with him to the police van that was waiting outside.  So he lifted me up and pushed me into the cage that was meant for police dogs, and he drove with me to Queenstown with the gate open.
 And then I was - my body was wounded because of the beatings by the Ciskei police,.  And then we arrived in Queenstown in the late afternoon so they took me into the cells.  And then the following day another Security policeman he introduced himself as Sergeant Jordaan of the Security Branch in Queenstown.
 They took me to their offices where they interrogated me,.  They wanted to know about COSAS activities, which I told because by that time they had our minute book and then they wanted to know the people who were backing us like old people in Queenstown.  And then I said I have no knowledge of any person old person who was influencing us.
 They particularly mentioned Mr [indistinct]  Sondlo that he was the man, I mean the suspect was behind us and then they were influencing us to promote the aims of the ANC.  But I said we know nothing about the ANC we were just a student organization and were interested only in students affairs.  And then - so they do that - did that almost - for almost three months.
 I mean three months and they would take  me from the cells in the morning and then to their offices where they interrogated me.  And then when they saw they couldn't get the information they wanted they started to beat me up, and then they punch me and then the person who was doing that it Sergeant Jordaan, Sergeant  Nel and Captain Venter who was a leading  the group - the group.
 And then it was - they would pull plastic bags over my face demanding that I should confess to the people that were ANC members .  And they wanted to know who were putting people to go to Lesotho or Angola to be trained as ANC guerrillas.  I told them that I had no knowledge of that kind of activity I'm not a member of the ANC, I know nobody who is doing that thing in Queenstown and top of that I was not living in Queenstown.
 I was taken in Whittlesea so they should direct those questions to the guys who were or comrades who were living in Queenstown.  But they couldn't believe what I was telling them they were saying that I had more information because in 1979 - 1979 around December I was arrested in Queenstown in fact we were just briefly held together with Mr Thozamile Botha.  
 And he went to Queenstown for his own business but they realized that he went there to meet some Civic people in Queenstown so they said I definitely had some connections with all that people and I've got some information that I must tell them.  But I told them that I don't have any information to tell them I know nothing about the activities of Mr Botha so I can't tell anything about him.
 So at one stage they took me from my cell in the afternoon they made me to put on police camouflage and then they put a balaclava over my face and they drove me out of the police station into an isolated spot.   They were - I was handcuffed and I had leg irons on and  they repeated the same questions and then they said that they were going to shoot me if I don't tell them that and they will tell the public that I ran away from the police station long time ago and I've come back being a well trained ANC terrorist.
 And then because of the fact there again that there was nobody who knew where I was being held.  So they will shoot me and leave me there but I said to them I've got nothing to tell them.  So Captain Venter he moved about 20 meters from me and pointed a gun at me so he said he was going to shoot me.
 But I told him that I've got nothing to tell him, so he shot at my feet but he didn't - I mean he missed me.  So he said am I still not prepared to tell the truth but I said I've got no other truth to tell him.  So they were just frustrated, so they took me back to the police cells and they kept me there for a further two months now without interrogating me.
 And then I was held under solitary confinement for the whole period.  And then after about five months Captain - Sergeant Jordaan came to the cell, he opened the cell and told me that your mother is dead and you are not going to bury her.  And then he closed the cell and then he left me there.  So I the [indistinct] that my mother is dead, but we had a way of communicating with the outside public in the cells.  So I sent the message outside to ask if that was true, but somebody else told me that it was not true, my mother was there still alive.  So they kept me thinking that I was being frustrated because of that.
 And then after six months there were about fourteen  of us held in - in fact detained in that period and then we were transferred to Fort Glamogan Maximum security prison in East London.  So we were still kept in solitary confinement for that period and then after two months we were charged for terrorism.  And then the trial went on for a month and I was discharged.  There was no evidence against me.
 And then they - three of us were discharged and then eleven of us - of them stayed behind.  And then after another month they were discharged as well.  But I couldn't attend their trial because when I was discharged Captain Venter said that I was responsible for having distributed copies of  the Freedom Charter in Queenstown and Whittlesea and the Freedom Charter was a banned document then.  So they wanted to arrest me again, so I had to run away from East London. and try to - in fact I [indistinct] in Port Elizabeth.  So  when the trial was over [intervention]

MARY BURTON: Sorry to interrupt you, by then it was about early 1981, was it about that period?

MR MAY: At the end of 1981.

MARY BURTON: End of 1981 okay.