Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-13

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: (sworn states)

MR TIPP: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Singaram, is it correct that you were born in December 1952 in Port Elizabeth?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: You have made an application for amnesty and your application starts at page 44 of bundle C is that correct and runs through to page 54?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And then you've also deposed to a supplementary affidavit in support of your application which runs from page 54a to page 54d is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And do you confirm the contents of your application and your supplementary affidavit as true and correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Mr Singaram, I'm going to ask you a few questions about your background and how you got involved with the ANC.  Could you tell the Committee where you grew up and under what circumstances it was that you left South Africa?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Honourable Committee, I was born in Port Elizabeth but I grew up - part of my primary school was in Port Elizabeth in South End and in East London in North End.  Those were very mixed areas like District Six.  My father owned property in East London but when group areas came he felt he was not going to be pushed around and so he then sold up his properties and that's how we left the country.

MR TIPP: You then left and went to London, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.   May I add my father was a barmen in a five star hotel and prior to going what had insult to injury was that he had to - he was put behind a pigeon hole because this was a five star hotel and the law prohibited a black person from serving whites in a five star ladies bar.  Thank you.

MR TIPP: You then returned to South Africa in 1973 is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Could you tell the Committee Mr Singaram when it was that you became involved with the ANC and how you became involved?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Firstly I was involved in non-racial sport and thereafter in '76, early '76 I was introduced to Aziz Pahad who is now Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and Mr Ronnie Kasrils who is now Deputy Minister of Defence and they coached me and trained me.

MR TIPP: In 1977 is it correct that you were then sent for training?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Early 1977 I went to the GDR which was East Germany and I trained there and thereafter went to Angola.

MR TIPP: Sorry, what was the nature of your training there?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did a commandos course, it was also in defence of installations and also offensive training.

MR TIPP: And is it correct that that was the point at which you joined MK?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Is it also correct that from 1977 right through until 1990 you were involved with MK?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct but I must clarify that I became a member of D.I.S. in 1983 - I mean 1991 I came back into the country and thereafter I was deployed in the Eastern Cape as a member of the D.I.S.

MR TIPP: Mr Singaram, could you just explain what D.I.S. is?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: It's the Department of Intelligence and Security within the ANC.

MR TIPP: In 1994 were you still a member of the D.I.S.?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct until 1995 when I was amalgamated into the National Intelligence Agency.

MR TIPP: Mr Singaram, I'm going to move now to your affidavit which you prepared for the purposes of the inquest, which is also annexed to your Application for Amnesty, it's at page 51 of bundle C.  I'm not going to go into detail about what happened earlier on in the morning but if you could just tell the Committee in your own words how it was that you got to Shell House on that day and what it was that you noticed?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I was living in the High Point in Hillbrow and that morning I got up and when I heard some noises I saw a crowd of people marching down with traditional weapons when they attacked a woman who was in High Hills and they were throwing sticks at her.  She had to grab off her ...[inaudible] of her high heels and she ran, she was quite traumatised.

MR TIPP: You then made your way from High Point to Shell House is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Did you see any other groups of marchers on the way?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Not particularly.

MR TIPP: You also went to Lancett Hall at some stage and then returned back to Shell House is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That morning I arrived at Shell House, I went up to my offices and then Mr Mshlanga asked me to accompany him to Lancet Hall since there was an incident there.

MR TIPP: Mr Singaram can you tell the Committee what happened once you got back to Shell House.

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: When I got back to Shell House I went up to my floor and remained in my office before I was called down to assist.

MR TIPP: And what happened after your call down to assist?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: When I got down to the ground floor there was a group marching from a westerly to an easterly direction along Plein Street and they were taunting at the members in front of Shell House and they were also hitting at some of the posters that was along Plein Street.

MR TIPP: At that stage were you positioned in front of Shell House?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: When I arrived then I saw this incident I took up position in front of the foyer at Shell House.

MR TIPP: How was this incident resolved?

MR TIPP: Well the marchers went along with their escorts and the passed on through and went up Plein Street.

MR TIPP: Can you tell the Committee what happened after that as far as you were concerned?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Shortly after that it may have taken a few minutes of so I can't quite put it into a time frame.  A group then marched from north to south down Plein Street towards the Regional Offices.

MR TIPP: Yes and then?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Well they were also chanting and they went along and at some point there was a bit of a stand off between the police pointing at their arms at Shell House and this stand off was resolved by Mr Terror Lekota who went and remonstrated with them asking them why they are pointing their arms at - towards Shell House.  At that point I feared there may have been a clash with the police.

MR TIPP: But again that incident was resolved is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: It was amicably resolved by Mr Lekota who went in front of their arms and remonstrated with them.

MR TIPP: Mr Singaram, could you tell the Committee how it was that you became involved in the main shooting incident with which this application?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Well when I arrived at Shell House that morning, Mr Joma Davie, I don't know his correct name, he informed me that I should be prepared because they're expecting some problems that day and they will call me to assist.

MR TIPP: And were you called to assist?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Yes.

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: What was the first sign that you heard or saw which eventually led to your involvement in the incident
the main incident?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: While I was there I was in front of the chemist, there's a little chemist which is next Shell House which is next to the shoe store on the corner of King George and Plein Street.  While I was at the chemist I hear from firing coming from King George Street and that's when I threw myself to a prone position and crawled, leopard crawled to the corner of King George and Plein Street.  By then there was already general firing - firing Honourable Chair.

MR TIPP: What did you see when you got to the corner?