Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-01

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I don't know whether I heard your question well.  You refer to guerilla warfare, and that implies a full-scale war. I think I put it quite clearly that the task of the Security Branch during my time was by means of gathering of information and reporting to arrest terrorists. 	Where there was obviously confrontation there would have been some shooting but the main aim was to arrest people and to get information and that was for the larger picture but there was no change in strategy that I had any knowledge of and therefore I cannot describe it as a guerilla warfare.

MR BLACK: Perhaps yes you did misunderstand me. While it might not be regarded as a guerilla warfare being waged, was it the perception of the security forces at the time that a form of low intensity warfare existed in the country when regard was being had to armed incursions being made?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes I think it is reasonable to accept if you are in confrontation with each other that you can view it as low intensity warfare.

MR BLACK: I have no further questions thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BLACK

ADV DE JAGER: At that stage when you were still in command were there border incidents where people were killed?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes Chairperson there were quite a few, we can think of the landmines, many people were killed there, two of my colleagues were shot dead and I want to use this opportunity to say to you that they were shot from behind of a bakkie and my people got hold of him and he was taken to court.
	There were also infiltrations leading to confrontations, to some fighting, people were killed in the Villa Nora region where ANC terrorists infiltrated.  There were such incidents before this incident, prior.

ADV DE JAGER: And the case you're referring to where a person shot two people at the back of a bakkie, is that the person who was arrested in connection with the landmines where this family of Tzaneen were killed?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes this person and another one was also convicted in this instance.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Merwe were you, well let me put it this way. Do you recall any incident in which terrorists, as you put it, who infiltrated into the country were intercepted and arrested?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes Chairperson I can remember.

CHAIRPERSON: How many such incidents do you recall?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I have to qualify this. I cannot remember that clearly but one that does stand out and where I was present was the arrest of Peter Mokaba. We later determined that he was the person who was sent in with a political mission, he was armed with a makarov during the arrest in Bokomo.
	We arrested two PAC terrorists and I know there were also incidents of a few other terrorists who entered.  We arrested them and we tried to change their minds and it was then taken through the court procedure but there were such incidents and I know that there are many more cases.

CHAIRPERSON: The largest group that was the one intercepted, I'm referring to the six deceased in this matter?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Personally I think so, I might be wrong but I think this was the largest group.  I know and I can just give you and example.  The defence force and the police were chasing people who infiltrated at the western side of Messina and the two people whom we referred to just now, Hunge and his friend who were charged with the landmines and the death of two policemen, they were also part of a group, I don't know big the group was but I think the six here was one of the largest groups we've had.

CHAIRPERSON: Actually perhaps I wasn't that specific. What I wanted to find out from you was that was there ever an operation more-or-less like this one where you received information beforehand that a group of people who had infiltrated a certain point and then you followed them and you monitored their movements and you planned a roadblock ahead and in fact they came into a road block and then they were arrested?  I'm talking about an incident of that nature, not where you incidentally come across them but specifically where you planned in advance to put up a road block to arrest them and indeed succeeded in putting up a roadblock and  arrest them.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: No we didn't have a typical similar case, we did however receive prior information about infiltration which concluded in a different way because of circumstances but a typical case like this one, this was the first one.

CHAIRPERSON: Who appointed Mr Swart to be the investigating officer?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Captain Swart was stationed at the Louis Trichardt branch and his commanding officer was Captain Dreyer. I don't know who appointed him to be the investigating officer, it might have been Captain Erwee or his own commanding officer Captain Dreyer.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he not at the incident where the deceased were killed?  I'm referring to Mr Swart.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I think he was involved in the operation. I can't remember exactly where he figured in the whole event.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not a policeman, obviously I don't know how these things work but as a layperson, I would have thought that it was a little bit strange that the person to be appointed as an investigating officer should be one of the people who was at the scene, virtually one of the people to be investigated.

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I think he played such a subordinate role, and the fact is that he did actually do the investigation.  The branches dealt with their own judicial inquests and cases and it was not something which came from my office.  I also realised later who had been nominated for which specific task.

CHAIRPERSON: You are a highly experienced policeman but given the situation, would you have appointed him as an investigating officer?  Given the fact that he was present during the incident, was part of the team, would you have appointed him the investigating officer?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: I probably would have appointed somebody else, somebody who hadn't been present.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Visser do you want to re-examine?

ADV VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman, only a few questions.
	I asked you about the vehicle which was to be used initially for transporting the people when there were only three people involved.  You then said that it was a red passenger sedan.  Is that correct according to your recollection?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: As I remember, I don't know whether it was red or maroon but it was something like that, it was that type of vehicle because the infiltration it didn't actually materialise and the vehicle broke at some stage. It wasn't really something which I remember particularly.

ADV VISSER: And you also testified this afternoon that according to what you were told, the person who had been wounded was supposed to have said that they were on their way to meet somebody at Pietersburg station who would have been wearing a red garment.  Would you accept that it was yellow garment?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Whilst you were speaking I remembered that it was actually a yellow garment, yes, yes I have a problem with the colour.

ADV VISSER: Could we put it on record, Mr van der Merwe that wherever in your evidence which will be on record, wherever you refer to a handgrenade you actually meant to refer to a gas grenade?

WILLEM JOHANNES VAN DER MERWE: Yes correct.