Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-30

CHAIRPERSON: Who is next?

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, the next applicant is Mr Danny Radebe.  His application is on page 135.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Radebe, won't you stand please.  Are your full names Danny Radebe?

DANNY RADEBE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, please sit down.  Mr Sibeko?

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Radebe, you are an applicant in this matter applying for amnesty, is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Is it correct that you were a member of the Self Defence Unit for Lusaka-A?  Is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is so.

MR SIBEKO: When did you join the Self Defence Unit?

DANNY RADEBE: It was in 1993.

MR SIBEKO: Who was your commander at the time you joined the Self Defence Unit?

DANNY RADEBE: It was Mosa Msimango.

MR SIBEKO: Have you heard the evidence of Mr Patrick Radebe and Lucky Soko inasfar as it relates to the death of Gregory Mkwanazi and Mbuso?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Did you understand what they said?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Were you involved in that activity?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I was there.

MR SIBEKO: Do you mind telling us about your involvement from the beginning up to the end of this incident?

DANNY RADEBE: I was at Lucky's place, it was in the evening.  When I was still sitting there Mbuso came and he knocked at the door and Lucky asked who was at the door, Mbuso did not respond.
	Lucky asked for the second time and then Mbuso said "Come out with your axe".  Lucky was a person who used to joke.  He took his axe and he went to open the door.  After he had opened the door, Mbuso shot him.  I was looking at him.  We were sitting there with Lucky's family.  That is what I know.

MR SIBEKO: Now when you talk about Lucky, is he one and the same person as Gregory Mkwanazi?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, he is the same person.

MR SIBEKO: You say you were at Gregory's place, where exactly in the house were you sitting and who else was there?

DANNY RADEBE: I was in the kitchen with his family.

MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to state exactly who in the family of the deceased was there, because by family you can mean quite a large number of people.  Are you in a position to remember exactly who was there?

DANNY RADEBE: What family are you talking about, Lucky's family?  A person - I've told you that it was his family, all the members of his family, even the children were there and the children saw everything that took place that day.

MR SIBEKO: Was Lucky's father present?

DANNY RADEBE: No.

MR SIBEKO: Was Lucky's mother present?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, she was there.

CHAIRPERSON: If Lucky had a brother, was his brother there?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, he was there.

MR SIBEKO: Who else was there?

DANNY RADEBE: It was myself who was a person from outside but the majority of the people there were Lucky's family.

MR SIBEKO: Alright.  How do you that the person who was knocking at the door was Mbuso?  Did he mention his name or did you see him?

DANNY RADEBE: I saw him.

MR SIBEKO: When the person knocked at the door just before the incident occurred, was it during the day or was it at night, and if it was at night, could you see the person who was outside, was there a light that could enable you to see that this is so and so?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I could see because in Lucky's kitchen there was a light outside and so you could see a person who was standing outside.

MR SIBEKO: Now that the light was on, will I be correct to say that it was at night when he, it was in the evening when he came to Lucky's place, that is when Mbuso came to Lucky's place?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, it was in the evening.

MR SIBEKO: Now, Mbuso knocked at the door, a few words were exchanged, that is who is the person is knocking and then ultimately Lucky ended up opening up the door.  Was there any other thing that was said before the shooting started, after the door was already opened?

DANNY RADEBE: No, nothing else was said.  When he opened the door there was a shot and he ran away, he ran to next door and he came back as a person who was surprised, a person who did not know what was happening.

MR SIBEKO: When exactly did he come back and appear as if he is surprised as to what had occurred?

DANNY RADEBE: Soon after the incident.  He came back on the very same night.

ADV GCABASHE: Just for absolute clarity, you're saying Mbuso came back?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Did Mbuso ...(intervention)

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Sibeko.
	Did Mbuso say anything whilst he was shooting Lucky?

DANNY RADEBE: No, he said nothing.  I did not hear him saying anything, I just heard the shot.

ADV SANDI: Did Lucky try to throw a blow with the axe he was carrying, on Mbuso?

DANNY RADEBE: No.

MR SIBEKO: Now when he came back after the incident, as you say he appeared as if he was surprised, did he say anything?  When he came back for the second time as you say he was surprised ...(end of tape)

DANNY RADEBE: ...(inaudible) I found him sitting there, sitting in the kitchen with his hands on his head.

MR SIBEKO: Now let me get you clear here.  When Mbuso knocked at the door, the door was opened, when he fired you were in the kitchen.  When everything occurred you were still in the kitchen, is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Was there a time after that incident when you left the kitchen or the house at all?

DANNY RADEBE: After this incident I went home to fetch the car so that we could take Lucky to the hospital.  When I came I saw him sitting there in the kitchen, that is Mbuso.  I don't know what he said, if had said anything because I just got in there and he was quiet.

MR SIBEKO: Did you ask any question in connection with the said incident?  In fact did you ask him why did he do that?

DANNY RADEBE: No, I did not ask because I was also very scared, my heart was beating very hard.  I couldn't even talk because that incident was actually unexpected.

ADV SANDI: Did anyone of the people who were there in the house ask Mbuso why he had shot Lucky?

DANNY RADEBE: I don't know but when I came they were quiet, all of them were quiet in the house.

ADV SANDI: Are you able to say how many times Mbuso opened fire on Lucky?

DANNY RADEBE: Only once, in the ear.

MR SIBEKO: You say you went to fetch the vehicle so that you could take him to the hospital, did you actually take Lucky to the hospital?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I took him to the hospital.

MR SIBEKO: What happened thereafter?  Did you come back with him or did you leave him at the hospital and what happened thereafter?  What did you do thereafter?

DANNY RADEBE: We left him there at the hospital.  We were just taking him there because he was dead already.  We left him there at the hospital and we came back.

MR SIBEKO: Did you spend the night at Lucky's place, the very same evening after the incident took place or did you go home, or any other place?

DANNY RADEBE: I went home.

MR SIBEKO: The following morning, were you present when Mbuso came to apologise to the family of the deceased?  That is the following morning after the incident that occurred.

DANNY RADEBE: No, I was not present.

MR SIBEKO: Were you present at the time Patrick and Lucky Soko took Mbuso to the office at Mkwaie Street?

DANNY RADEBE: No, I was not there.

MR SIBEKO: Were you part of the group that went to fetch Mbuso from the offices to the circle at Xhaba Street?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I was there.

MR SIBEKO: Do you mind telling us about the role or your active role at the time when he was, when Mbuso was fetched from the offices until he was executed?