Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-02-09

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp, are we ready to begin?

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, Honourable members, we are ready to begin.

CHAIRPERSON: Let it be placed on record that this Amnesty Committee comprises of myself as Chairman, Judge Pillay on my left, Advocate Chris de Jager, Senior counsel, on my right and Advocate Leah Gcabashe to left of Judge Pillay.
	Will counsel appearing for the applicants place themselves on record?
	May it please the Commission, Mr Chairman and gentlemen, J.A. Booyens, I appear on behalf - instructed by Mr Francois van der Merwe, I appear on behalf of the applicants, Mr N.J.J. Janse van Rensburg, Mr H.B. Du Plessis, as well as person - two persons who have received notice that they are implicated in the matter, Mr R.J. Roelofse and Mr G. Niewoudt - instructed by the same attorney.
	The notice I refer to are notices in terms of Section 19(4) in terms of the Act.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, may it please you and honourable members of the Committee, I'm instructed by attorneys Wagener, Muller and Du Plessis.  My name for the record is Louis Visser.  I act for two applicants before you, J.G. Raath and G.N. Erasmus and I also act for three persons who received Section 19: Sub-Section 4 notifications, Brigadier Schoon - I may add that these are on a little note which we've received Mr Chairman, and you can follow it on there, it is Brigadier Schoon, General Johan Coetzee and J.S. Vermeulen, those are the three implicated persons for whom we also appear.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Moosa?

MR MOOSA: Mr Chairman and the Committee, I appear for Mrs Charity Kondile and the family of the deceased, with the exception of those family members represented by my learned friend, Mr Nyoka.

MR NYOKA: Thank you Mr Chairman, I am appearing for the son of the deceased, Bantu, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the full name of the son of your client?

MR NYOKA: B-a-n-t-u and the surname is N-t-s-u-k-a.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  Mr Booyens?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, can I just ask for another - my client's ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

UNKNOWN: My client's - doesn't work.  Mr Chairman and members of the Committee, I call the applicant Mr Hermanus Barend du Plessis, as the first witness in these proceedings. The witness will speak in Afrikaans.

MR NYOKA: Mr Chairman, can I say something?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR NYOKA: Before Advocate Booyens starts, I would like to beg leave to hand in copies of a list of names of people that crossed from Lesotho to South Africa.  I'm referring in particular to Volume 1 at page 65, paragraph 2, where it is stated there that
"...[indistinct] had Transkei passport and the number - and it was issued at Umtata on the 3rd of November 1980 and it was valid to the 5th of December.  And it was issued I the name of Vuyani Nkatha."
	The intention to do that, is that - we are trying - we are going to show that that name does not appear in the list that I have.  I had to do thorough investigation and ...[indistinct] van Rensgate, Vuyani Nkatha does not appear on the list of names.  
	The reason why I'm doing this now, is because I'm in possession only of a faxed copy and I'm awaiting the original at my hotel in a day or two, but in the meantime I thought it was in the interest of justice that I hand in the copy of the list of names.  
	It is 43 names, that of people that crossed from Maseru into South Africa and that name does not appear.

CHAIRPERSON: Which name does not appear?

MR NYOKA: Vuyani Nkatha, the one that the deceased was alleged to have used when he came from Maseru into South Africa, it's not in this list, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, this list that - the photocopy you say, appears in Volume 1?

MR NYOKA: No, I'm referring to page 65 where the name appears but I've a list from van Rensgate ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I beg your pardon.

MR NYOKA: The Lesotho side of the border. This name does not appear in this list that I have.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR NYOKA: The list is dated 28 January 1996, it's fairly recent but I've been waiting for the original.  Can I hand in the list to all the members?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you can please, let us all have it.

MR NYOKA: And for the record Mr Chairman, the person who gave ...[inaudible] Sergeant Tsoene - T-s-o-e-n-e.  If there's a need for him to come and testify, he can come, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: This document will go in as Exhibit A and we'll wait for the original to come in, when it does come in we'll
mark it accordingly.

UNKNOWN: As you please Mr Chairman.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Booyens ...[intervention}

UNKNOWN: I'm calling Mr Du Plessis, Mr Chairman.

MR HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: (sworn states)

UNKNOWN: I've seen that the witness's microphone was not on when he took the oath and as far as possible I confirm that I've heard that he had taken the oath.
	Mr Du Plessis, you are an applicant in this matter, is that correct?  And you apply for amnesty in terms of the act related to the death of the deceased in this matter - Mr Kondile, is that correct?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: In front of you on page 13 of Volume 1 - if you page to page 13 of Volume 1 of the documentation, do you confirm that the first page is correct?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct Your Honour.

UNKNOWN: Then, I request you to place on record your personal background which is not part of this document, it's a document which we have compiled and which we can make available. It's not very long, I want him to just to read it into the record.