Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-10-28

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No, I did not Sir.

ADV SANDI: Which direction did you take Mr Mabala?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: As the car was parked outside, I was towards - I was at the back of the car, next to the right hand side of the door - the car door, so I was standing behind the car on the right side.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is that the driver's side, the side of Maxeba or the other side - the passenger's side.  You were standing - yes?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I was standing by the right hand side back door of the car.

ADV SANDI: Do you mean to say that in that way the car was between yourself and the tavern?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: From what you're saying, it seems to me that you were - as you got out of the car - because you were sitting on that side of the car behind the driver, right?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, I was sitting directly behind the driver.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So as you got out, that's almost where you remained and that's where you were positioned, is that what you're saying?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you ever move from that position?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No, I did not move.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And you can correct me if I'm wrong, so I also understand you to say that you also - you were also a kind of a lookout, looking around you to see if there was anyone else or anyone else that may have affected the operation.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.  Please repeat the question, sorry.

NORMAN ARENDSE: It's not really a question, I just want to get my understanding right that you were also - it seems to me from what you're saying that you were also serving a purpose as a kind of a lookout while the operation was going on, you were also a lookout to see if anyone else was coming, if anything else was - any other person was coming to sort of interrupt the operation as it were.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Maxeba who was the driver, did he stay in the position in the front seat at the wheel or did he get out at all?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: He was in the car.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Where was Sibeko?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I cannot remember where Sibeko was positioned.

NORMAN ARENDSE: In your estimation, for how long did the attack last?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: It didn't take too long a time, it was a quick thing - maybe two minutes, it was just a quick thing.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, at what stage did you get back into the car?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: When I heard Madasi shouting I went back to the car.

NORMAN ARENDSE: What did he shout?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: He said we should retreat or he shouted: "retreat".

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is that the same thing as withdrawal?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, that is so Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And you then say that you ended up not throwing the grenade as you were instructed to do?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Who got into the car last?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Gqomfa, because when he got into the car the car was already in motion.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Can you recall whether Maxeba switched off the car when you got to the tavern?  Was it on all the time, can you remember?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: The car was slightly in motion - that time the car was already in motion.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Just to complete the picture there ...[intervention]

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Arendse, can I clarify something?  I think he said in Xhosa - did you say: "the car was idling"?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, it was idling already, it was idling ready to move.  We did not go there to just sit there, we went there to do a job.  We could not switch off the car, the car was idling the whole time.

INTERPRETER: I beg your pardon, that was the interpreter's mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Arendse, I think that this infinite amount of detail - I want you to lead that evidence if you think it's really essential you know.

NORMAN ARENDSE: As you please Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We're getting long answers to simple questions on minute details and you can lead that evidence if you think that it is relevant to your client's application, I'm not going to stop you.

NORMAN ARENDSE: I think we've had enough of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

NORMAN ARENDSE: I agree.  Now, as I understand it, the car that was - it was parked alongside the pavement and was facing in the wrong direction because this is a one-way street, is that right?  In other words, the car was facing the robots which would be on the right hand side of that picture as you look at it?  You can't see it on the picture there but the robots is there on the corner - the car was facing the robots, is that right?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, as you were sitting in the car you drove back to - according to Gqomfa, to Site C.  Is that right - in Khayelitsha?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is so, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: He then instructed - when you got to Site C, he instructed Madasi and Maxeba to go and abandon the car the get rid of the car?

CHAIRPERSON: Shouldn't you ask him along what he did rather than what Gqomfa said to others what to do?  We've heard Gqomfa's evidence, I'm concerned about what he did and I think you should ask him what he did.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I want to get to that.  It's just that he refers to Gqomfa's statement in his statement and I just wanted to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

NORMAN ARENDSE: Yes.
	Mr Mabala, that evening before - listen carefully, before, during and after the operation, was there any other car involved in the operation that you can remember?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Was the blue Opel Record the only car that was involved in this operation, that you can remember?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: What did you do after the operation was completed?  What did you do that evening and the next day?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I stayed.  Please repeat your question?

NORMAN ARENDSE: What did you do ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you go after the incident - after you got out of the car, where did you go to?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: We went back home or to the house where we were staying.  Madasi and Maxeba went to abandon the car, we went the place where we stayed.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And you slept there?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That is correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And the next day, what did you do?  Did you go anywhere?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I stayed put in the house, I was waiting for Madasi to come back - I don't know where they'd gone to.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now Mr Chairman, if I  may then just continue to read from the prepared statement you have in front of you, I think I stopped at - or if I remember, I think I read the whole statement yesterday.

CHAIRPERSON: You have.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you.
	Mr Mabala, you were arrested together with Madasi at Elliot, is that correct?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That's correct, Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you wear a cap at all that evening, the evening of the attack - before, during or after the attack, did you wear a cap?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I can't remember Sir.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You remember that there was evidence in court - in the criminal case in which you were in, there was evidence that I think a blue cap was found in the car afterwards?  Do you know anything about that blue cap?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No Sir, I have no knowledge of such a cap.  There was such evidence but I don't know anything about this cap.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Just in your own words, can you tell us how do you feel now about what happened?  What happened was that four young people were killed - we now that.  They were not members of the security forces, they were there enjoying a drink -  we know that in fact only one of the four deceased was White.  Now with those facts in front of you, how do you feel about what happened?