Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-07

MR KIECK: No I don't.
ADV. GCABASHE: Thank you, no further questions.
ADV. SANDI: Mr Kieck, this occasion as I understand, it is an occasion that would be held every year?

MR KIECK: The annual Christmas Party would be held every year, yes.
ADV. SANDI: What was the normal practice, did you have a tradition of inviting certain people who were regarded as prominent people in the community?

MR KIECK: No, no, this function is purely members' function, no outside - for the golf or for the party sorry?
ADV. SANDI: Only members would attend and not anyone?

MR KIECK: Ja at Christmas Party is where we spend the money that we've made the whole year so it's only - it's mainly only for members, members of the Wine Circle.
ADV. SANDI: Okay, I'm talking about the party, maybe my questions are not very clear.

CHAIRPERSON: What party, the Christmas Party?
ADV. SANDI: The party in the evening.

MR KIECK: The evening party - the party in the evening would have been confined only to the members of the Wine Circle.  There were no prominent guests there, the members - the people that were there were all members of the Wine Circle.
ADV. SANDI: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman, I call Mrs Beth Savage.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry one question I wanted to ask you which I've forgotten, did the club normally have dinner parties on Saturday night?  Sorry, not dinner parties, did the club normally serve dinner on Saturday nights or not?

MR KIECK: No, not normally Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR PRIOR

MR PRIOR: Mrs Savage is it correct that during, well on the 28th November 1992 you were attending the Annual Christmas Party of the Wine Circle of King William's Town at the King William's Town Golf Club?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: Yes, that is correct.

MR PRIOR: And were you - maybe could you just explain to the committee whether you recall or do you know when the function had been booked at the particular venue?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: I wasn't aware of that because every year we would have our function at a different place and for me, not being of a golfing family, it was my first time having lived in King William's Town for ten years that I'd ever been to the Golf Club and I heard that they had this new caterer and that we'd been lucky enough to get the venue, so I was really quite excited about going there for the first time.
	Sorry, to answer your question, I have no idea when the venue was booked, that was booked by the committee.

MR PRIOR: And you heard Mr Kieck's evidence regarding that the Christmas dinner was attended by the members of the wine circle only or exclusively?  Can you confirm that or do you disagree with that?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: No, I confirm that, the wine circle was almost like a family, we were a group of people that knew each other well, that had a common interest which was wine tasting.  We usually met during the course of the year at various peoples homes or at other venues and when you talk about - there's been this discrimination of senior people and what is meant -but yes there were some prominent people amongst our members, I mean you mentioned Judge Claasens, his wife Anne was actually the founder of the club because he was a type of leader who had managed or maybe privileged enough to do courses.  So that is the reason that they were there and then of course there was Mrs Radie who played at every second function in town out of the goodness of her heart.  So it was  a real like country village get together.

MR PRIOR: We've heard evidence that the APLA unit expected high ranking military personnel and police personnel to be present as well as political figures, could you comment on that?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: Well, the only comment I have is I certainly didn't expect it, you know, that was the furthest thing from my mind.

MR PRIOR: Well, sorry the question is more specifically, were you aware of any such people being there apart from Mr Radie that you've heard about, that he was also a member of the wine circle and his wife and Mr Nel who had played golf earlier that day?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: No I wasn't because they were just part of the wine circle, we didn't regard them as any different from anybody else.

MR PRIOR: Right, it's common cause that there was an attack on that occasion on that evening, did you want to speak to the Committee or tell the Committee about your experience during that attack?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: Well for what it's worth, we were having a really fantastic evening and I suddenly heard something that sounded like firecrackers and Mr Stanford was on my left and seated next to Mr Stanford was Mr MacDonald and his wife and I had this dreadful vision as if I was seeing a movie in real life and I saw - I saw both Mr and Mrs MacDonald die and I swung round and looked towards the door and saw the gentleman over there with his AK47, not that I know much but that's just what I assumed and my immediate thought was "Oh God, this is a terrorist attack."  From then on I blacked out and I don't remember anything.
	But I'm pleased to have come here because our ...(indistinct) over them appeared to me every night, I hallucinated about him for many years and when I was in I.C.U. I actually - I used to see his face so that just goes to prove what an absolutely incredible thing the human mind is and as I say I remembered nothing, I remember the next thing I remember was in the helicopter flying off to Bloemfontein and coming round and they said to me you've been in a terrorist attack and I tried to tell them that I'd known.	I spent a month in I.C.U. but...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: What injuries did you sustain?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: I had a hole in the aorta and I had my large intestine removed and I had, well, basic open heart surgery.  But it, you know what I'm trying to say is that I saw something the other day that says that the hand that gives the roses always keeps some of the fragrance and what I would like to say is my sincere hope and prayer is that something good will come out of this.  I think there's a tremendous amount of good that can come out of it.  As far as I'm concerned I feel my deepest sympathy go to those that lost loved ones, I miss them too, they were my friends but in some ways, I've been done the favour of my life, I've been given a second chance and I'm not in favour of the way things were carried out needlessly, but I do understand the cause. 	I think if you look even at this community in the hall this afternoon you can see how families have been brought close together.  Over here on my left they have support, I really, I had - I never realised what strength I had in my family, my children nursed me, they taught me to walk, they fed me and I feel that through that I've actually been able to counsel so many people of all colours through my experience and I just, I thank God for that. And I think ultimately peace and reconciliation comes through each one of us with our Maker and I would just like to take this opportunity of thanking Bishop Tutu in particular who spearheaded this and thanking you guys for persevering with the task, I think this is the only road to peace.

MR PRIOR: Is there any particular thing you wish to say to the applicants?

ELIZABETH ANNE SAVAGE: The only thing I would like to say to the applicants is that I hope and pray that more come forward because all I see is a clear picture, it's like a blank photograph that is filling in but there are many ghosts that still haven't appeared and I think that I'm sure other will come forward in time. And as I say the truth is between you and your Maker only you and He know that and that is up to you to make your peace, I have no problem with amnesty, none at all.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mrs Savage, is there anything else you wish to add?