Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-12

MR WILLS: And did you ever have to return to that case?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No.

MR WILLS: Now the other aspect I want to concentrate on very briefly is the type of training you got in relation to indoctrination.  Can you comment?  What did the police teach you about the UDF at that training?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: The police would usually tell us - the white policemen - and sometimes they would play videos.  At all times they will say that the UDF or the ANC, they will tell us how bad the UDF is and tell us about attacks on Inkatha members.  I remember one instance at one Tabetho home where the wife and children were killed.  When you saw this on video you really believed that these people should not be allowed to govern.  They told us these people should be killed and they did not deserve to be sent to jail, they should just be killed.

MR WILLS: Yes, now you passed at as a special constable and then you were posted to Pietermaritzburg Unit 8, under the command of Warrant Officer Peenz and that for the record it's spelt P-e-e-n-z and you were issued with a shotgun and six rounds of ammunition, is that right?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And that shotgun you could take wherever you wanted to, is that right?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now I want to turn to page 144 of the papers, there's an incident there which occurred just outside of Pietermaritzburg during 1998 and that is shooting at some scholars.  Can you just tell the Committee what occurred there, very briefly?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: The formation of special constables was done to protect the leadership of the IFP and the KwaZulu structures, therefore on that day I was posted at a school called Ngelishani School which is outside Imbali.  That school is just outside Imbali.  At that time scholars had started to believe that we were working for Inkatha.  When the van dropped us off, there was a murmur or disgruntlement amongst scholars and then they picked up stones and throw them at us.  I then realised that I should shoot at these kids and I shot at them.  Thereafter the officer in charge, Peenz, arrived and he said that this ammunition should not be used, should not be wasted but instead should be used on UDF.  He was grateful for what I had done.  I'm not sure how many people were injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Were any people injured?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, some were injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anybody die?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I have no knowledge of that.

MR WILLS: You say in your affidavit that Peenz "made it clear to us that he did not want to hear that we had fired shots into the air, he said that we should shoot to kill and ensure that any person we shot was dead before we called them to the scene."  Do you confirm that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, he said we should not call him to a scene if somebody was injured but instead should call him if somebody had indeed died.

MR WILLS: Now at some stage shortly thereafter you were posted to guard Mr David Ntombela, the IFP leader outside Pietermartizburg.  Do you see that in paragraph 31?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes I see it.

MR WILLS: And you say that "Mr Ntombela told us that if we were to go on rest days we should not go home but assemble at his house."  Is that right?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now what would be the purpose of assembling at his house?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: One day when I was posted there some SAP members arrived and called him outside.  Thereafter he came back to us and said we should not be afraid.  I was just talking to this policeman -  " As you are to go on rest days, you are not supposed to use your usual guns, they are going to bring other guns that you are going to use to kill UDF members."  That is what he said they told him.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Now Mr Hlongwane, the last incident I want to deal with and I think this is the last incident in which you were involved in, in Mpumalanga, was the murder of a female spy and the attempted murder of - and rape - of another female spy in the Mpumalanga area.  Can you describe this incident?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, I was on a two to ten shift here at Mpumalanga at Unit 2.  I was with a friend called Montle Duma from Unit 2, Pietermartizburg.  As we were about to go off duty, some boys, IFP members arrived.  One of them was Gatgasi and Tolbert and Khatlemene and others.  They went rushing into my home.  My home was where IFP members reported anything.  Sipho Malaba was not fond of us, he called us Teleweni's, he was on the side of Inkatha.  He said he and his group belonged to the Teleweni group and Sipho Malaba did not like them because he belonged to the Inkatha group.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MR WILLS: Can you hear me, Mr Hlongwane?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Okay please just - you've given a lot of detail in your affidavit about this incident, I just want you to go through this incident as quickly as possible, thank you, as briefly as possible.

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, let me repeat. Inkatha was divided in Mpumalanga ...[intervention]

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Hlongwane, I don't want to interfere with how you want to give evidence, but you don't seem to be responding to what your counsel is putting to you.  He's asking you about the details of the incident which is appearing on paragraph 32 and you are giving now evidence on the division within the IFP.  I don't know whether that impinges on the incident that you have been questioned upon or not and if not would prefer that you would just stick to what you are being questioned and respond to that.

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I beg your pardon.  I will not be able to respond to the question specifically, I'll have to give a certain background because I may not give a full picture.

CHAIRPERSON: Well then do so.

MR WILLS: Mr  Hlongwane, you said that certain people came to your house when you were on rest days, what did these people tell you?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: When they arrived at my father's house they said there were some girls who were moving around.  We went towards Guguletu, we found two girls.

MR WILLS: Which area did you find these girls in?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Between Joysdale and the township.

MR WILLS: Whose area was that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Unit 2 was our area and across was the UDF area, they were in the UDF area.

MR WILLS: Yes now what did these persons tell you these girls were doing?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Nkethle said he had already seen them thrice and were moving along the road.  I had a pistol and we met up with them at that place that I've already mentioned.  I called them, they came to me and I asked them where they come from.  I think one said she came from Unit 3 and the other one did not want to speak to us.  I asked them if they were aware that they were about to be killed.  We took them and we questioned them about where they came about, where they came from, what they wanted.  They then explained to us that their intention was that they had been sent to check on our area.

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane, if you can continue with your evidence, you said these girls told you something, what did they tell you?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: They told us that they had been sent by the UDF to check up on our areas.

MR WILLS: Yes, you then took them to a certain house and what happened there?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: We took them to ..[indistinct] Bobo's house.  What we first did was that I and Mondle Duma went to report this matter to a central committee member.  We used to use traditional medicine.  When we arrived at his home, Zekele gave us two kerchiefs and he said we should kill these girls and use blood from their necks to make traditional medicine.

MR WILLS: Carry on.