Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, it is the ANC.

REV XUNDU: Mrs Ndoni, what are your requests to the Commission today?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: I need a tombstone for my son.

REV XUNDU: There is another request on your statement.  Do you want me to read it for you or would you like to say it yourself?
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LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Please read it.

REV XUNDU: One of your requests here is that you would like a memorial park where people can go to pray.  Is that so Mrs Ndoni?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Is that all you have to say Mrs Ndoni?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, there is nothing else that I would like to say.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mrs Ndoni, thank you Mr Chairperson.

MS MAYA: Mrs Molose, let me refer to you.  You are going to talk about your son, Mzwabantu Molose also from Pearston, is that so?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, it is so.

MS MAYA: Mzwabantu according to this statement, was arrested like Mrs Ndoni's son.

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: It is so Ma'am.

MS MAYA: And this was in March 1985.

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am.

MS MAYA: According to your knowledge why was he arrested?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: They were in the organisation.

MS MAYA: Do you know the name of the organisation?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: The ANC.

MS MAYA: Was he a student or working at the time?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: He was working, but he had stopped working at that time.

MS MAYA: After he had been arrested, was he prosecuted and sentenced?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, he was sentenced like all the others.

MS MAYA: What was the accusation?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: They were burning down schools.
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MS MAYA: For how long were they sentenced?  According to your statement, he was sentenced to five years imprisonment, is that so?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am, it is so.

MS MAYA: Do you know which prison he was taken to?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: In East London.  They were taken from Pearston to Port Elizabeth, St Albans prison.

MS MAYA: When did you find out that your son had passed away?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: It was on a Thursday when somebody came to ask me if I knew that my son is ill.  I said no.  He was already in East London by then.
 We tried to get transport.  On the Saturday we were supposed to go to East London but Rossouw came to tell us that my son had passed away.

MS MAYA: How long had he been in prison when he died?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: It was quite a while, Ma'am.  I don't quite remember.

MS MAYA: Was Mrs Ndoni's son still alive?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, he was still alive, he was in Port Elizabeth.

MS MAYA: So they were arrested at the same time?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, they were.

MS MAYA: What did they say happened to him?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: They said that he had swallowed a razor blade.

MS MAYA: Did you get a report from a Doctor?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: His elder brothers made sure that there was a post-mortem, but no razor blade was found.  They said that there was a whole lot of smoke in his lungs.

MS MAYA: did you get a Death Certificate?
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NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, somebody has it here in the hall.

MS MAYA: It is okay Ma'am, we will get it another time.  Ma'am, were there witnesses in prison who saw the death of your child?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, but the witness that we have is in Cape Town.

MS MAYA: Does that mean you have the same witnesses as Mrs Ndoni?  Is that so?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, they were all together, all in the same cell.

MS MAYA: Was there an inquest or did you try and investigate what had happened in the cells?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: We were too scared because there was a lot of cruelty from the Boers.

MS MAYA: You could not even get an attorney from the organisation that would help you?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: We had a Mr Miya from Uitenhage.

MS MAYA: What happened eventually?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: He gave up in the middle of the whole thing, there were no findings as such.  He could not continue with the case.

MS MAYA: According to your statement, the wardens would beat your sons up?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: That's what we heard from those that were together with them.

MS MAYA: Were you given any names?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Well the one is Zimasile who knows, he left last week.

MS MAYA: I am asking about the perpetrators, do you know anyone's names?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: No.
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MS MAYA: And Rossouw, do you know where he is now?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: No, I just heard that he is on pension, he has resigned, I don't know where he is, I think he is in George.

MS MAYA: Let us just revert back a bit.  When the post-mortem was being performed, you said that there was a family member or did you have a Doctor of your won?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: There were 15 people.

MS MAYA: Doctors?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: No, children.

MS MAYA: What happened to the children?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: They were present during the post-mortem.  No, when the post-mortem was being performed, just his elder brother was there.

MS MAYA: Did you have your own Doctor?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: No, they brought a Doctor from Cape Town.

MS MAYA: Was it a Government Doctor, this Doctor Airton?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Well, I am not sure, I don't know, I can't remember.

MS MAYA: According to your statement Ma'am, Mzwabantu was 22 years of age.  Did he have a child?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: No, he did not have a child.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am.  Is that all you have to say or would you like to add to your statement?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: That is all.

MS MAYA: Do you have a request before the Commission?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: I would like a tombstone please.

MS MAYA: A tombstone?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am.

MS MAYA: You have no other requests?   Do you have other children?
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NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, I have four children.

MS MAYA: How old are they?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: It is Mzwanantu's older brothers.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am, I will hand you over to Mr Chairperson now perhaps he has some questions.

JUNE CRICHTON: Ms Molose, can you hear me, can you hear me?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: My question is not only to you, but also to Mrs Ndoni, who won't be able to hear me because she hasn't got - thank  you, I'm sorry, but I need them both to hear what I have to say.
 Can you hear me Mrs Ndoni?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: I am going to take you back to the time when your sons died and you were able to see the bodies and I am sorry that I have to raise this, but I must ask you because the stories that you received were that one son had swallowed a blade the other son had been stabbed and in fact you didn't find any stab wounds on his body.
 I would like to ask both of you if you could say to me what you think actually happened to your sons?  Was there any other indication that you had that there might have been something else that had been done to them?
 Can you speak first Mrs Molose?

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: Yes, I can answer you Ma'am.  When they arrested my son, he was well.   It is in their hands that he died.

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, Ma'am.  I saw no stab wounds, we looked but there were no wounds.  When they took him, he was well.  It is in their hands that he died.

JUNE CRICHTON: Are you saying to me that you have no idea
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 then why he did die, there was no indication on his body as to why he died, bruises, nothing like that?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: I saw nothing on his body, no wounds on his body.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you, both of you.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Sandi?

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mrs Molose, you said that the police were very cruel at Pearston.