Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Simelane, I would like to go back to talk about the children.  You said the one who was born in 1969 left school in Standard 6 and the twins who were born in 1971 left school in Standard 5 and the one who was born in 1974 left school in Standard 3.  As a parent, you know them, can you tell us if they're still willing to go back to school?

WITNESS:   I think they will if they can get assistance because sometimes when I talk to them I can see that they really do like to go to school but the thing is I can't afford because today life demands one to know English.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where were they going to school?

WITNESS:   One was at  /Nkanyekho

KHOZA MGOJO: Nkanyekho High School and the others were still in primary school.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I also heard that you said these people who were wearing balaclavas and handgloves, according to your knowledge or your suspicion, who were these people?

WITNESS:   I can't be suspicious of anyone.  There people were many.  I can't tell who can be there and who can't be there but what I can tell you is that I only saw people whom I saw for the first time because even on Wednesday when they came for the first time they were far from my house.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And what about the policemen?   Were there not policemen there?  It was just people who were talking in Zulu alone or others?

WITNESS:   Those who came inside my house, they were talking Zulu.  There was no one who was talking any other language or a white man.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I just want to check your statement.  I don't want to have a statement and may not check it to make sure if anything is accurate.  In your statement you said your husband was killed and he was being attacked at your house by ANC people.  Did you say that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I said so because it was a usual thing that Inkatha and ANC people were killing each other and I know that we were IFP members.

KHOZA MGOJO:  That's why I'm asking you, Mama, because I wanted you to confirm this thing.  (Tape ends.  Subsequent tape commences mid-sentence without overlap.) ... also said that everything that happened was never reported to the police.

WITNESS:   No, it was never.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Were you scared?

WITNESS:   Yes, we were scared.  Like I'm saying, we ran away from that area. Even today you aren't staying there?   ---   No, we aren't.  We aren't staying in the same house which we were staying in.  I bought another one.

KHOZA MGOJO:  But is it the same area?  This new house of yours, is it in the same area where your old house was?

WITNESS:  No, we didn't go back to that area.  It is Matshana but it's far.  We are now staying near the school, near Mangwe School.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they troubling you now?

WITNESS:   No, they aren't.  Nothing happened after.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I heard you talking about your house.  Do you still have the wish to go back to your old house?

WITNESS:   No, I'm scared to go back to that house.  Like I'm saying, before my husband was buried, when we went back to that house we saw other people coming and they had sticks and spears and we were scared.  We ran to the induna.  We reported this matter and the induna took us and put us next to his house.  That's how we got this new site where I built my new house.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You said your husband was buried where?

WITNESS:   He was buried here in town.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is there a tombstone there?

WITNESS:   No, there's no tombstone because I don't have money to buy it.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How come you didn't say that you wish the Commission to help you on this matter?  You didn't say anything about that.

WITNESS:   Yes, I didn't say anything in connection with this because there are things which you can ask from people and there aren't but I can say, if I'm allowed to ask for that, I can say I am asking for that.

KHOZA MGOJO:  We're just telling you or explaining to you these  things.  It's not things that we promise you that it will happen.  Whatever you ask it doesn't mean that it will happen.  We aren't here to give you whatever you ask for.  We are here to take whatever you ask or wish and forward it to the President.  As you heard Dr Magwaza saying, if we are here, everyone before us is equal.  It doesn't matter what political organisation one belongs in.  We grew up as youth.  We used to fight ourselves but we never experienced anything like this.  It's obvious that a third force came between Africans and it took away ubuntu and the Truth Commission is trying by all means to give it back to the people, to bring ubuntu back to the people that you know you can go anywhere and meet anyone and not be scared.  Even if you're ANC or IFP, it doesn't matter, everyone is equal.  We want people to stay the same and live the same.  I'm here and I'm supporting Richard Lyster on this one that, like he said yesterday, that we don't like to come here and hear evidence from one side of the organisation.  We want Inkatha people as well to be here to come and give their testimony because our job is to put together people and to go back as we used to live.  Thanks.

WITNESS:  Another thing that I will ask is that I need help more especially in connection with my leg.  I have a problem with my leg.  I can't even work.

KHOZA MGOJO:  As Professor Simangele has said that we will try and get help for you more especially with your health, we will try and see that you receive treatment, free treatment, even in connection with your leg.  We will pass it over.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Thank you.  Mrs Simelane and your daughter,  /we thank
we thank you very much for coming in here today and telling your very sad story in front of this big crowd, in front of the televisions.  It is a very, very sad story.  You were a treasurer of the IFP in your area and, for reasons that you don't understand, your husband was taken from you.  He was killed.  You sat here like we did and you listened to the previous witness, who was Mrs Msweli, and you must have heard the pain and the suffering that she went through.  She was also treasurer of the IFP in her area.  However, she resigned and she joined the ANC.  But she, like you, was an ordinary person, a law abiding person, an upright, upstanding person, a strong woman and she suffered a terrible loss, the death of her son at the hands of the IFP and I think what's important about the fact that you are both sitting here under the same roof giving evidence together is that you can both come to understand the fact that violence - the violence that you have suffered, the violence that Mrs Msweli has suffered - brings us nothing except misery, brings us sadness and we hope that that mutual realisation from you from the IFP, from Mrs Msweli from the ANC can start bringing us together and bringing you as IFP and ANC together to a state where you were only ten years ago.  As I said earlier in my evidence, 10, 12 years ago people in this area were never killing each other.  They were living peacefully side by side and it's only in the last 10 or 12 years that this terrible violence has overtaken us and it's time that we started sitting down and talking to each other and not listening to those that are directing us from elsewhere.  Sitting down, talking to  each other and trying getting our lives back on track so that we can move forward together.  So again we thank you very much for coming in and telling us your story.  Thank you very much.