Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-04

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We prepared, me made preparation for the funeral.  There was nothing else that took place besides that.  After his death no action was taken whatsoever.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he ever taken to the hospital or so, or get the doctor to give the post mortem?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: That is correct, post mortem was undertaken.

CHAIRPERSON: And no inquest made?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: There was no inquest.

CHAIRPERSON: And it was never given to the police?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: No, they took, they did not take any part in this.  The police insisted and said he was troublesome in the community, also to the police at large.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the family understand by that when the police say he was a source of problem to them too?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We were surprised as a family, because we did not know and have any knowledge that our son was troublesome.  Now that he was dead, they were telling us now that he was troublesome.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know him to be active in any organisation within Duduza?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, yes he was an activist.

CHAIRPERSON: What position did he hold in any of those organisations?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: He was a PRO in COSAS organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the family ever have an idea of what COSAS was all about?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, it was a school organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: What is it they were doing for the school or for the students?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: They were helping in many things, different things and solving the problems that they probably will encounter, they were encountering at schools.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the family ever have an idea that, did the family ever have an idea whether COSAS was teaching students how to trouble the police, as we later learned from the police themselves, that he was troublesome?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We knew that he was a COSAS member, but we did not know why the police had to label him that way, because he was not troubling the police anyway.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you say that COSAS could have gone even beyond helping the students, that COSAS could have been involved in community issues?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: No, you did not.  I realise here in your statement that he was not the only one who was found dead that day.  Who else was found dead with him?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Jabilane Mahlangu, Matibe Modisane, Skomboza Msweni, there were four in number in Kwetsima.

CHAIRPERSON: And were the four families ever able to get the information with regard to what these four could have been engaged in before they died?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: No, we were all ignorant, not knowing what was happening.

CHAIRPERSON: What information did you get from the COSAS leadership itself?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We discovered that the police gave them hand grenades to bomb the police stations.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you get that?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We got that from the COSAS members that, who survived the attack.

CHAIRPERSON: And then what did COSAS do with that kind of a problem?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: COSAS did nothing because the police were also in search of them and they disappeared as well.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the community itself, when it realised that it lost four young students, what did it say about this whole matter?  So, the community did nothing, but what did the community say at the burial, because normally we express ourselves better when we console one another.

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: The community did its best to console us and make it a point that everything go according to plan.

CHAIRPERSON: Veronica, thank you, I am going to give members of the panel chance to give, to raise questions wherever they would love to.  Sis Joyce.

MRS SEROKE: Ms Nukwindla, you say according to your statement your son, Vincent, was hiding from the police, not at, was not at home, but will come to visit you at home.  Now, why, did he ever give a reason why he was hiding in case you have asked him why he was hiding away from the police?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: He said the police were looking for them because at the beginning of the riots in Kwetsima, the police arrested them and he left home.  He said he does not want the police to find him, so he will be in hiding.

MRS SEROKE: You also went on to say, when you said they were, police were looking for them, that means them as COSAS were the reinforcers of the riots and the police knew this that they were supporters of this.  You also went on ahead to say in your statement, at night whilst sleeping you heard gunshots.  What was happening at that night in question?  It was in Kwetsima, not in Duduza, what was happening?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: We do not know what was happening that evening, but we heard gunshots.  The morning of that day one explained that there were kids that were injured.  I also had no idea that my son, my son was also one of those who were injured, because he came on Monday and said the police were looking for us and are still looking for us and the police will find me in the mortuary, they will not find me alive and he left.

MRS SEROKE: Take your time and drink some water.

CHAIRPERSON: Whilst waiting for Ma Veronica, we are going to request ... just to attend to people who may otherwise feel a little out of order.  Thank you.

MRS SEROKE: Can you go on ahead?  Vincent said the police were looking for them and they will never find him alive, they will find him at the mortuary.  That means he knew that they were going to kill him.

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, he said that.  I asked him how do you know that they are looking for you?  He said they were shooting us, they are shooting us and they are looking for us and definitely they will shoot us.

MRS SEROKE: You said, also, that they were, something was said about the hand grenades.  Do you have any idea if Vincent also had hand grenades in his possession to go and attack police and counsellors and police stations?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, he also had a hand grenade, he was given one.  Fortunately it did not explode, it only damaged his hand, then they shot him on the head.

MRS SEROKE: That means this hand grenade injured his hand?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes.

MRS SEROKE: He was given this hand grenade by the police?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes.

MRS SEROKE: But according to you, you did not have any idea that he had hand grenades, you only discovered that at the end?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, we heard from one boy who was a friend to them and who, he is late as well, but there is one around by the name of Jabulani Mazuza who was with him.

MRS SEROKE: Do you think he also gave a statement according to what he knew?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, he gave a statement.

MRS SEROKE: You also said that you did not open any case at the police station.

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, we did not.

MRS SEROKE: Why did you not?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: After the funeral we did not have time because the police were harassing us and trying to set our house alight.  One afternoon they were driving around the streets, there was one car parked outside, my son's friend.  I think they wanted the, this boy to go out and drive this car and suddenly they threw two petrol bombs.  Fortunately our house was not so much damaged, although some things were damaged.

MRS SEROKE: But did you go to report this matter at the police station?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, we did go, but the police did not take us, just took us for granted and they did not take any word from us.  The boys went in the morning to the police station to take their car registration and they told the police that this is the very car that was around our houses that day and one police said, you are insane, you are just mad, this is not the car.

MRS SEROKE: Do you think this is the car that was throwing the petrol bombs, parked outside your house?