Amnesty Hearings — Sebokeng — 1998-07-13

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: These are some of the reasons and also as I have explained earlier on, people were being harassed in Boipatong, they were being killed.

MR BERGER: You see because what I want to put to you is that this reason of Mr Mkhize's that you articulate in this paragraph is clearly a personal reason of his for wanting to attack Boipatong, would you agree with that?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I do not agree with that and I would not disagree with that either because it doesn't directly concern me.

MR BERGER: Let me then refer you to another confession, it's a confession of Philip Mpena.  Do you know a person Philip Mpena?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: No, I have no knowledge of him.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, perhaps it could be marked F.  Can I hand out while I'm going because it will just go a lot quicker.   Exhibit G would be the confession of Musa Dlamini and then Exhibit H would be the confession of Njanelwa Ndaba.

MR LAX: Mr Berger, we need a copy for the witness if you're going to refer him to it.

MR BERGER: They're all in Afrikaans so it won't assist.

MR LAX: Okay.  At least then maybe the interpreters could have a copy so they can see it and pass it on as well.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I also have one please, I haven't got one.

MS PRETORIUS: And I haven't got one either Mr Chairman.

MR BERGER: Mr Mthembu, before we get onto those confessions, do you know anything about the attack on the home of Mr Ernest Tsotso?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: No.

MR BERGER: Do you know Mr Ernest Tsotso is?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I just know the name.

MR BERGER: Do you know anything about the man?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I just heard that he is one of the people who was in charge of the comrades in Boipatong.

MR BERGER: He was a senior ANC leader in Boipatong.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: Yes, I heard so.

MR BERGER: In July 1991 you were in Kwamadala Hostel, correct?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: That's correct.

MR BERGER: At that time you were the Vice-Chairperson of the IFP Youth Brigade, correct?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: That's correct Sir.

MR BERGER: And you don't know anything about the fact that on the 3rd of July 1991, Mr Tsotso's house was attacked.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: No, Sir.

MR BERGER: Attacked by IFP members, you don't know about that?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: No, Sir, I don't know of it.

MR BERGER: And at the time Mr Tsotso was attending an ANC conference in Durban and his entire family was wiped out.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I have no knowledge of that Sir.

MR BERGER: Do you know that Mr Vanana Zulu left Boipatong before that attack on Mr Tsotso's family?  In other words he left Boipatong before July 1991.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I have no knowledge of that.

MR BERGER: You see my point is, when you were asked the question: "When was it decided to attack Boipatong"?, you pointed to two events as being the trigger for the attack on Boipatong.  The one was the burning of Mr Vanana Zulu's house which occurred before July 1991.

MR LAX: Sorry, you said before July 1991 and you're saying here that - sorry, I beg your pardon ...[intervention]

MR BERGER: No, no, the one is the attack on the Tsotso family, the other is the burning of ...[intervention]

MR LAX: I beg your pardon, I got confused there.

MR BERGER: Mr Vanana Zulu's house was burnt before July 1991.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I hear, I understand that.

MR BERGER: The attack on Boipatong came a year later.

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: That's correct Sir.

MR BERGER: So that couldn't have been the event that triggered the attack on Boipatong?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: I have given you reasons which I know to have led to attack the people at Boipatong.

MR BERGER: In Exhibit F, this is the confession of Philip Mpena, he gives an explanation about what happened on the night of the 17th of June 1992.  He says that you were called to the stadium, he was called to the stadium and then he says
"'n Sekere ou in kom met die van van Mkhize het gese dat ons Boipatong moet gaan aanval"
He's saying there: 
"A man the name of Mkhize came in and he said we must attack Boipatong.  We then went to Boipatong and we killed people there"
Again the point I'm making to you is that nowhere in this confession is there mention of the fact that: "we went to attack Boipatong because our people were being killed".  And again I'm suggesting to you that if that were the reason and if someone was making a confession one would have expected him to say: "Yes, I confess I went to kill the people but I went to kill the people because my people were being killed".  It doesn't say that.  Do you have an explanation for that?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: Sir, that statement was signed by Mpena himself.

MR BERGER: You can't explain it, that's what you're saying?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: Exactly.

MR BERGER: I can just tell you again, in the next confession, Exhibit G of Muso Tokozani Dlamini, again he gives an explanation about the attack, again no mention of the attack, of IFP supporters being killed and that's why there was an attack.  Silent on that aspect.  Can you comment?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: No.

MR BERGER: Then I want to refer you to Exhibit H, the affidavit of Mr Njanelwa Ndaba.  In paragraph 7 of that affidavit he gives a very interesting explanation for why the people of Boipatong were attacked.  He says the following at paragraph 7 and I will translate.  He says
"The reasons which were given to me why Boipatong was attacked by the residents of Kwamadala Hostel on the 17th of June 1992 and killed is as follows"
And he talks about two people who told him - I'll summarise this for you, about the residents of Boipatong being protected by people from Sharpeville but he says that in return for this protection these people from Sharpeville demanded money from the people of Boipatong.  And then I'll read to you what he says in the last paragraph.  He says:
"What I'm actually saying is that from conversations with people who live in Boipatong and who work at Iscor, also from conversations with residents of the Kwamadala Hostel who work at Iscor and in other places, the reason for the attack on the residents of Boipatong is as a result of the people who were protecting"
The Afrikaans word is: "bewaak", I think that that does mean to protect.
"people who were guarding Boipatong"
And maybe I should read the Afrikaans so that I don't misquote.  He says:
"Is die rede vir die aanval of die inwoners van Boipatong as gevolg van die persone wat Boipatong"
He uses the word:
"Sirela"
for Boipatong.
"bewaak het en hulle gedurig voorgekeer het en geld vir hulle dienste geeis het"
He goes on, he says:
"Verder dat die persone wat Sirela, Boipatong, die nag van 17 Junie 1992 aangeval en gedood het soos reeds vermeld inwoners van die Kwamadala Hostel is en kon hulle blykbaar nie die sogenaamde bewakers van Sirela, Boipatong opspoor nie en het hulle toe besluit om nie met lee hande terugtekeer nie, met ander woorde gaan om mense aanteval en dan niks doen nie.  Hulle het toe besluit om maar in Sirela, Boipatong integaan en wraak op ander inwoners te neem"
So he says that the residents of Kwamadala went out to attack the guards from Sharpeville and when they couldn't find them, instead of coming back with empty hands then they decided to exact revenge on the other residents of Boipatong.  Was that the reason for the attack Mr Mthembu?

VICTOR MTHANDENI MTHEMBU: Mr Berger, as I have explained to you earlier on I am still maintaining that people were attacked because they were harassing our people.  What you are reading from that statement, even though I do not know whose statement it is, but that's how perhaps that person sees it and I therefore cannot say something about something that I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Does that statement indicate what that revenge was for?