Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-23

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: It also happened around this vicinity.  At the Machaning Shopping Complex Dr Abubaga Asfat had a surgery there and Asfat was one of those doctors who was very active in the community.  Many children went to him when they had been shot by the police, but on this particular afternoon I was off sick, I had the flu.  I went to his surgery and while I was sitting there waiting to be attended to, he was still attending to somebody else.  The door just opened and a group of children, these students in black and white came in.  I mean, these children were bleeding all over.  I mean, their white shirts were red, they were just a mess.  They were bleeding all over and the way they just burst in and there was so much commotion.  We did not know what to do and, I guess, in that noise Asfat came out of his room.  He was consulting with someone, consulting somebody.  He came out of his room and he was confronted by these children as we were confronted by these children and he took one by the hand and said, come.  No questions were asked and I think it must have been on the Saturday that Kissinger was visiting Soweto, but I stand corrected, because I have not referred to my notes.
 As he took one of the children into his consulting room SOWETO HEARING GAUTENG PROVINCE
6 N MASHIYANE
and as he did that the children were in such pain and they all just rushed into the consulting room.  So Asfat then said, okay, okay, those of you who are not very, very sick, help me.  Let us do something about these children.  So he tried to tell us how to get hold of the pellet guns, the pellet bullets because they had been shot.  They had been shot all over and he was trying to tell us that feel the pellet, you know, just feel the pellet.  I mean we, the women.  We then got hold of the children and the children, we could not touch the children without them screaming.  So we tried to get hold of the pellets, to find where the pellets were and for those pellets which we could not squeeze out of the body, we would call Asfat and he would make little scissors and we would squeeze the pellets out.  The most difficult pellets to remove were the ones in the skull because then the hair would come into the way and this little, I guess, little flesh on the skull.  So we were busy calling, come help me this side doctor and he would be rushing this way and the children were screaming.  We were also, we were not doctors, we were not nurses, we had to handle this blood, but anyway we managed, you know.  I do not think we managed to take all the pellets out.   
 However we managed, but then having done the operation, if I may call it an operation, we then had a problem.  We were all full of blood and we were so scared that if we were to go into the township with so much on our clothes and we met with the police, what do we do?  At that stage the children had been, the children that we had attended to had been, you know, going out one by one, but then us, the so called nurses now, we were so full of blood and we just feared that, you know, if we met the police we would have to SOWETO HEARING GAUTENG PROVINCE
7 N MASHIYANE
tell the police what had happened and Asfat would be in trouble.  We just did not want to do that.  So Asfat said, okay, he will drive us home.  So Asfat took us home one by one.

RUSSELL ALLY: Nomavenda, that event, do you have an idea of when it took place because again, in your statement, you do not actually give a specific date.  More or less, when was this?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: I am not sure whether it was 1977 when or 1976, but, as I say I stand corrected, but I suspect it was the Friday that Kissinger visited Soweto, but I do recall it was a Friday.

RUSSELL ALLY: And these 20 odd students who came rushing into the surgery did they explain what event had taken place?  I mean, what was the context, the situation in which they were fired upon by the police?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: Yes, they did say, they did say that they were at school and the police came in and shot at them.  They said they were not, we asked them, they said they were not doing anything, but, you know, being school kids one was not sure whether they were telling us the truth.  They said their teachers, the police just burst into the school yards and started shooting at them, but it was not for us to ask questions.  What we had to do at that time was just to assist the children who were in pain.

RUSSELL ALLY: And from Dr Asfat's surgery where did these children go to?  Back to their homes or to hospital or what happened?  What follow-up was there?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: I did not particularly nor did any of us adults ask them where they were going.  We just wanted to know if they were in the neighbourhood.  They said no, we are fine, we are quite safe.  At that time it was difficult, SOWETO HEARING GAUTENG PROVINCE
8 N MASHIYANE
really, to ask a person, a stranger, where do you come from because, I mean, people were not, we were living in a climate where you did not divulge your identity that easily.  They did not know me, you know.  I could have been an informer.  So there was no way I could know where these children were coming from, but we did want to know where they were staying, but they said they were in the vicinity.

RUSSELL ALLY: So they came for medical treatment and then left again?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: Yes, they came for medical treatment because they knew that Asfat would attend to them without charging them, one, and also he would not send them to the police because he had that, the township people knew Asfat to be that kind of a doctor.

RUSSELL ALLY: So during that time Asfat was trusted and quite important in what was happening in Soweto?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: I do not think many people would have survived, you know, without Asfat having been there because, I mean, he attended to so many people who had suffered from being shot at by the police.  I do not recall during my visits to the surgery, you know, Asfat saying money first, you know.  I use to, I cannot recall him saying, look, you can pay me when you have got the money.  At the moment let us attend to your problems.  So, Asfat was a well known person around here.  He was the people's doctor.

RUSSELL ALLY: And do you feel that in the events around Soweto 1976, he should be remembered in a particular way?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: I just feel a chapter ought to be devoted on Asfat.  Asfat spoke Sotho, you know.  Asfat was the people's doctor.  Asfat had sweets on his table, you know, he attended to the children, he gave them sweets.  Asfat
SOWETO HEARING GAUTENG PROVINCE
9 N MASHIYANE
drove around here, he was the people's doctor.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much Nomavenda.  I am going to ask if there are any other Commissioners who would like to ask you some questions as well.  Thank you.

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: You are welcome.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I will start with you, Piet Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: I was moved by what you tell about Dr Asfat and it may well be that he must be remembered in Soweto.  Are there other doctors too in the vicinity who were, as Asfat, as kind, as ready to help the people or was he the lonely doctor in this area?

NOMAVENDA MASHIYANE: I would not say he was the only doctor who performed such services to the people of Soweto.  I am talking from this area.  I know there are, I mean, for instance there was Mary, Dr Mary Emklatana at Crossroads.  I mean, she also performed, you know, lots of services for people of Soweto, but I am, particularly, I particularly know about Asfat because he was in my area and he was a doctor that I could always call when I was in distress.  Not for my family only, but for the people around here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Sooka.