Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-30

WITNESS:   That's correct.  We were walking past a curio shop and suddenly we were surrounded by about - it could have been 20-30 men.  At the time I didn't think anything of it because I was a well-balanced person.  I was never nervous or scared or - you know, I was the sort of person that had a lot of faith, you know, in what was happening.  I was ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: How old were these men?  Were they of your age group, or what?

WITNESS:   No, these - well, I didn't take much notice at the time when - you know, when the people surrounded us.  The way I saw it was that they were just people - you know, a whole big group of people that had walked out of the store together.  When they walked out the store we continued walking, and I noticed that there were men walking in front of me who had knives in sheaths, and they were hiding them - or putting them under their clothing, but still I didn't think anything of it, I just presumed ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: Were they walking quietly or they were making noise?

WITNESS:   No, they weren't - as the men in front of us walked out, no, they were walking pretty quickly, but they looked - you know, I didn't think anything of the situation at the time.  It was only once the group of men walked behind - another group of men with the same group walked behind me, and I heard a man scream something got to do with Africa, that I kind of got a bit nervous and just started looking around, as I saw people were like - you know, seemed to be moving very fast.  Well, then as I continued walking Ryan and I were walking together ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: What were they saying about Africa?  You can't remember?

WITNESS:   I just - all that I remember - because at the time it happened so quickly, I just remember the man screaming something Africa.  I didn't hear if he said anything before or after Africa, I just heard the word Africa.  Consequently the men separated Ryan and I.  Ryan was pushed more towards the right, towards the road, and I was separated more towards the building side of the actual road.

KHOZA MGOJO: Were there any other people around apart from you?

WITNESS:   Well, at the time I think I got such a shock, and if I close my eyes I can still the direction which I was walking in, you know, they way I had been forced to the one side, but - I am sure there were other people there, but at that particular time I saw no one but the men around me.  Well, as soon as I heard the man shout something about Africa I turned around to see what it was, and I consequently saw a knife coming towards my head, and that was the last I remember.  The next time I actually came around or - you know, woke up, it must have been - I had moved about, say, 10 metres from the last place, you know, I was conscious of where I was standing.   And at that time I used to do a lot of boogie boarding, if you want to call it that, and I had a board with me at the time, and I had a bag on my back, and as I fell it so happened that I fell that I was able to shield myself with the board.  And I just lay there, and I didn't scream or I didn't do anything, I just lay there and thought to myself, "This has never happened before."  You know, "This can't be happening.  What's going on?"  But as I actually - it was just before I hit the ground, just before I actually stumbled or - I noticed that Ryan had been pushed towards the one direction, and I saw a man actually stab him in the back.  And that was the last I saw of Ryan.  As I was lying on the ground a youth, he must have been my own age, 15-16, he plunged at me with a knife, and luckily - if I didn't have that board with me I am sure I would have been more seriously injured, but I was stabbed in my leg with the knife.  It went in the left side and it came out the top of my leg.  But that wasn't - the injury wasn't the thing which really traumatised me.  Once I actually realised what had happened, and I decided to get up and actually go and find some help, and I stood up, and obviously I was - you know, just in such a state.  I was screaming, and actually ran into the Lonsdale Hotel, just asking someone to please help me, or just to do something for me, and the people probably there were so shocked that they were too afraid to help.  They were just - you know, it's not something you see every day.  It's things you hear about, but you don't see it.  It's not something that you expect to happen.

KHOZA MGOJO: So you say there were many people around who were witnessing this, but they just ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: ... didn't do anything.

WITNESS:   No, there were people that saw what had happened.  By the time I actually got up on my feet once I had been stabbed it just appeared that hotels, shops, whatever was around there, they just seemed to close their doors and they were just afraid - afraid of you, kind of thing, although I hadn't done anything.  I had been unfortunately involved in an incident which just happened to be coincidental.

KHOZA MGOJO: These men, what kind of clothes did they have?  Was there anything particularly about what they were wearing?

WITNESS:   The only person - the only sort of clothing I can remember was the boy, the youth that stabbed me had a peach shirt on.  That's all I can remember.  But they dressed pretty civilian - you know, in civilian clothing, just pants and shirts and stuff.  So I can remember, but that's about it.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement you said that you saw another lady.

WITNESS:   Yes.  While I was lying on the ground shielding myself a lady had obviously been caught in the same sort of - in the same group that I had been caught in, and she crouched behind me.  She must have been about in her thirties somewhere.  She was actually trying to hide under me.  She was trying to hide under my body, and she had consequently also been stabbed in the back at the time.  While we were actually lying there we could - you know, we could see the group following up on the road, and it was only once that I stood up and walked into the hotel, into the Lonsdale Hotel to see if I could get someone to help me, that when I came out - at the time I didn't know who the man was, but I saw him firing shots at the - at the same man who had stabbed Ryan.  And I wasn't sure who the man was, but later on it was revealed that he was a training - a policeman who was in training school or whatever, and one of the - his accomplice was down from Pretoria on holiday with him.  She had also been stabbed at the time.

KHOZA MGOJO: When these people were attacking you were they saying something?

WITNESS:   Well, I don't know if you've ever been in a situation like that, but when you're in a situation like that your mind just - everything just stops.  It just seems to just go so, so, so slowly.  It's like a movie that is running so slowly, that even if there are sounds and sights, and cars going past, you're not going to hear that because all that you can think of at that present moment is, "I have to survive."  Because, you know, your life has been put on the line, and although you're not ready for that, you know, it's not something that you're ready - you know, you wake up in the morning and you think, "Well, today this is going to happen to me," you know, or, "I am in this situation.  I am running at a high risk job," or, "I'm this sort of a person, I've got be careful of things like that."  You know, I was a - I was still very much of a child.  I didn't think of things like that, and in a situation like that your mind doesn't think about looking out for certain people's faces.  You're not bothered about what's happening.  All that you're thinking about is, you know, "I've got to live through this."

KHOZA MGOJO: Were these men white people, yellow people, black people?  How did they look like?

WITNESS:   They were all African men.