Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

BONGANI FINCA: We are going to call upon Mangaliso Johnson Dilima.  Over to you Reverend Xundu.

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, let me swear him in.  Can you please rise Mangaliso Johnson Dilima?  Okay, you can remain seated.

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir.

BONGANI FINCA: We welcome you Mr Dilima.  Over to you Mr Sandi to ask him questions.

MR SANDI: Let me first greet you sir, this afternoon.  Let me first verify your full names.  What is your name sir?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I am Mangaliso Johnson Dilima.

MR SANDI: Do you reside at  Somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.

MR SANDI: The story that you are going to tell us today took place in somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: When I look at this document, you said that in 1993 you were shot by police at Somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Mr Dilima, can you briefly tell us what was actually happening in Somerset East on this particular day?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, I can.  There was a riot.  There were riots at school, but I was at work.  During lunch time I went home.  I had my lunch.  After having my lunch I felt
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that I was lonely, I decided to go back to work.
 I decided that I don't want to stay at home, I must go back to work.  I decided to sit there at work.  I still had time.  It was just before the end of my lunch.
 While I was still sitting there at work, I saw a police van from the direction of Glen.

MR SANDI: Do you mean that you were shot while sitting at work, doing nothing, it was just before the end of your lunch time?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Was there any march or a toyi-toyi that was taking place in your surroundings?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, it was far away.

MR SANDI: While they were shooting, were they pointing at you or was there somebody else that they were after?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I think they were pointing at me.

MR SANDI: Were there any other people who were with you who were also shot?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, I don't think so, but I don't remember.

MR SANDI: While you were shot, what happened after you were shot?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Somebody went to tell my bosses that I was shot.

MR SANDI: Where in your body was the bullet?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was on my left hand side.

MR SANDI: Were you shot only once or were you shot more than once?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I am not sure because I lost consciousness and I regained consciousness at the hospital.

MR SANDI: Did you see the person who was shooting you?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was Marius, but I don't know his surname.
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MR SANDI: Is Marius the one that you referred to in your statement as Marius Goosen?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, I think  that is the one.

MR SANDI: Was this Marius Goosen one of the policemen in Somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, I can say so because he was in the company of the police.

MR SANDI: Before this particular day, had you seen him previously?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, I used to see him.

MR SANDI: What was it that he was doing?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was during the time that they were looking for the people that were stealing the sheep.

MR SANDI: Was he a well-known person at  Somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.  He was the person responsible for arresting the people stealing the sheep.

MR SANDI: Wasn't he a policeman at the security branch?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I am not sure, but I think at that time he was a policeman.

MR SANDI: Where is Marius Goosen now?  Is he still in Somerset East?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I haven't seen him for a long time, I am not sure.

MR SANDI: Who took you to hospital?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was Alfred Scrufmetye.

MR SANDI: What is your relationship to Alfred Scrufmetye?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: We were working together.

MR SANDI: What happened at the hospital?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: They removed the pellets, though I don't even know whether they removed all of them.  But the Doctor saw through X-rays that there were some other pellets that were
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embedded in my body.

MR SANDI: Where were the pellets in your body?  Was there any other pellets in your eye?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I have another one, the one that was behind my ear.

MR SANDI: Is there any pellets in your body now or maybe they removed all of them?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I am not sure because another one was on my left hand.

MR SANDI: You mean all these bullets were removed on that same day?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No.

MR SANDI: When were they removed?  Did they tell you to come back again?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I went to another Doctor who removed those pellets.

MR SANDI: You mean the first one didn't remove all the pellets?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.

MR SANDI: What was the reason?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I don't know.

MR SANDI: Did he tell you that you had other pellets embedded in your body?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, because I went for X-rays with the first Doctor.

MR SANDI: What did he say about removing the pellets?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: He said nothing.

MR SANDI: How many days after the first pellets were removed?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I can't remember.

MR SANDI: For how many months did you have bullets in your
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body?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It is about two months.

MR SANDI: Were all the pellets removed?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, it is only the two of them.

MR SANDI: On that particular day, were there any other people who were shot?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, I can't remember.

MR SANDI: For how long were you admitted at the hospital?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was only a day, but I am not sure.

MR SANDI: In your statement you said after a week you were discharged from the hospital, do you still remember that?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.

MR SANDI: It is said that the following week while you were at work, something happened.  What was it?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I felt that my left arm was becoming numb.

MR SANDI: Didn't you fall?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, I didn't.

MR SANDI: Have you ever suffered from a stroke?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No.  I suffered from stroke after this accident in 1994.

MR SANDI: Have you ever suffered from a stroke before?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No.

MR SANDI: What did the Doctor said was the cause of a stroke?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: He didn't tell me.

MR SANDI: Did you go to the Doctor thereafter?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.  I was taken to the Doctor, the Doctor said it was a stroke.

MR SANDI: Who was the Doctor?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It was Verguyt.

MR SANDI: Are you still working for the Municipality?
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MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: No, they gave me pension.

MR SANDI: When did you get your pension?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: In February, in March.

MR SANDI: In which year?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I am making a mistake it was February, February 1994, because I was shot in 1993.

MR SANDI: What kind of work did you do?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: I was a plumber.

MR SANDI: After you had been shot, did you continue doing your job working as a plumber?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes, I could still work as a plumber.

MR SANDI: When you were given pension, was it because you couldn't work properly?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: It is because of the stroke.

MR SANDI: Is that all that you would like to tell us today, Mr Dilima?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Do you have any request or wish that you would like to forward to the Commission?

MANGALISO JOHNSON DILIMA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Can you tell us Mr Dilima?