Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-15

MR PRIOR: When you shot from the outside where you say you were, through that window into the bar, did Mr Madasi, did he go into the doorway that we see on the right hand side of photograph, I think it is 8?  Anyway, he went through the entrance into the bar, is that right, he disappeared from your view or could you still see him in the doorway when  he was shooting?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I already told you that I was on the left side window, shooting through that window.  He was not supposed to get into the building where I was shooting.
	He would get into the building and only end up at the entrance.  I don't know whether I gave you a full explanation.

MR PRIOR: And Mr Nqeba, he went around the back, is that correct, to the rear of the hotel?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: All right.  Did you receive any resistance there, or encounter any resistance from your target?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I did not get any resistance from the position where I was, because we just shot and then left.   If, when we gave reports as the unit, people might have come up with resistance that was present, but there was  no resistance at all.

MR PRIOR: Right,  the vehicle that you left the hotel in, where did you leave that?  That is the Nissan Sentra, Mr Mashalaba's vehicle?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: After completing the Yellowwoods hotel work, we came with the car.  Just before King William's Town we got a puncture, but I cannot tell the distance between the place where we got a puncture and King William's Town and the Commander of the unit took a decision because he was the leader at that time.
	He said guys, here we are with a puncture.  It would be difficult to stop other cars for help, let us leave it here and carry on.  I think you are answered sir.

MR PRIOR: So it was just abandoned there, is that right, left there alongside the road?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: We left it on the side of the road, we locked the doors because that is what we normally do when we take somebody's car.
	We asked him whether he had a spare key and he said no, and we said the key that we are using, you will get between the threads on the front wheel.

MR PRIOR: Now, he indicated and I think you confirmed, sorry, I don't know if you confirmed that, you certainly with the kombi you said a firearm was used on the owner, but with Mr Mashalaba, the Nissan Sentra vehicle you used on the night of the attack, was a firearm pointed at him?
	Page 35 Mr Chairman.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: When Mr Mashalaba's car was taken, and there were two, it was himself and that lady, I was on the side of the lady and I was pointing the 3.8 at her.
	What was happening to the driver, I do not have knowledge to that effect, I don't know what happened.

MR PRIOR: Well, he says in his statement that he beat someone there, he struck the person who was pushing him over from the driver's side to the passenger side with his fist, and that person then drew a firearm and pointed it at him and said he must be quiet.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: Can I ask a question sir?

MR PRIOR: Yes.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: If you are pointed with a gun, will you take out a fist to fight, I don't think he is telling the truth.

MR PRIOR: He said he first struck the person with the fist, then that person produced a firearm and then he was quiet.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: He is not telling the truth sir.  He did not hit anyone with a fist.  What happened was we told him sir, don't be troubled, and the lady that was next to him said, no, don't worry, just listen to them.
	He did not hit anyone with a fist.  He was just adding.

MR PRIOR: Why was it necessary for you to point your firearm at the woman, if there was no resistance and they were just complying?  Then I do not understand?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: The reason why I pointed a gun at that lady was that she must not be of any trouble to us, we did not have time.  It was for the sole reason of smoothing the process.  It had to be a quick process.

MR PRIOR: Well, I am suggesting to you that you are not telling us everything that occurred.  You are not telling us the truth about how you obtained this vehicle.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: Sir, I think I am answering the question you are asking.  You asked me a question specifically referring to the car, and I am answering specifically to the car.

MR PRIOR: If I remember what Mr Madasi said, he said at no stage was any firearms used in that vehicle, Mr Mashalaba's vehicle, but now you say you pointed a firearm at the female occupant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I don't think that is correct what is being said by Mr Prior.
	If I remember very well, Mr Madasi, when he was giving evidence, he said that he was on the driver's side and he was holding a firearm and he answered the same way that it was not possible that he can be beaten by a fist, yet he was holding a firearm.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, with respect, my recollection and I need to get a ruling on this because this is important, Mr Madasi was quite clear that there was no need to use the firearm or to have force, there was no question.  He was asked by Mr Lax about the assault or the striking, he said there was no question of an assault or any resistance by Mr Mashalaba.
	We have now a contradiction, a material contradiction on how this vehicle was obtained.  Mr Diaho-Monaheng now on his own (indistinct) says he pointed at the occupant, Mr Madasi certainly never gave any indication that there was any need to use firearms on those people to obtain the vehicle.
	I think the witness ought to be able to explain that contradiction.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I think there is a difference between a force and a pointing of a firearm.  I maybe wrong, my interpretation, Mr Chairman, there is a difference, somebody when he is using force.

ADV SANDI: What is the difference Mr Mbandazayo, if you are pointing a person with a firearm, are you not using force?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, technically I agree with you, but my interpretation was that if somebody resisted, then forcefully you did that, but my interpretation was that Mr Madasi indicated that they were having firearms with them, so there was no need for Mr Mashalaba to resist because of that.
	There was no resistance on that score because they were having firearms, and he even said that it is not possible, because I would have killed him, because I was having a firearm if he did that.  He said so.  That was his answer.

MR LAX: What he in fact said was that if the person had fought with him, he would have beaten him up, that is what he said, those were his precise words.
	He did go on to say after that, that he might have killed him if there had been some resistance.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Maybe I will leave that for argument Mr Chairman.  It is certainly clear that if firearms were used to subdue the occupants, then that was sufficient force to overcome any resistance that they might have offered.
	You never answered the question of your Attorney when he asked you whether Mr Mashalaba was told by you people, that you were going to kill whites.  Was that said to him?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I think the witness confirmed that, that was said to Mr Mashalaba, but then he went on to give an explanation why it was said to him.

MR PRIOR: Then I am happy with that.  I think Mr Madasi also confirmed that that in fact was said.
	Mr Diaho-Monaheng, I just want to move  to Mr Vena, that is on page 31 of the bundle, that was the kombi vehicle.  Is it not correct, I think if I listen to your evidence carefully, Mr Vena jumped out of his vehicle while it was still moving?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: When he was showed a gun, it was at the time when he was going to turn into a parking area.
	The car was not speeding, it was driving normally you know for a car to turn.  I think in his mind, he had this plan of escaping and then he jumped out of the car.