Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-24

CHAIRPERSON: The procedure was so far that Mr Mac Maharaj was interposed and he was a witness on behalf of the victims.  We have three witnesses left of the applicants, Mr Chairman.  These witnesses are all operators, to call them that, for want of a better expression, who followed orders of Mr Botha.  What we did, however, Mr Chairman, because you did not hear the evidence of Mr Botha who gave evidence about all the facts, we are going to lead Mr Wasserman slightly out of turn, Mr Chairman in order to give you some background and we will lead his evidence, not fully, but just to give you some background of the incident and we therefore call Mr Wasserman.  He is available and ready to take the oath.  He has no objection to taking the oath.  He will give his evidence in English, Mr Chairman.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Mr Wasserman, you have given evidence before the Amnesty Committee hearing the incidents presently in this cycle here at Durban, although there was a different Chairman.  Is that correct?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Sir.

MR VISSER: Do you repeat and incorporate your previous evidence and the references you made to other evidence also in your evidence today?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Your amnesty application appears in the Ndaba bundle at pages 40 to 54 where you deal with this specific incident at page 50, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: You have also drafted, or a document was drafted on instructions from you, setting out a synopsis of your evidence, which you now have before you and which, Mr Chairman, we beg leave to hand in as Exhibit K, do you also confirm the correctness of the contents thereof, subject to your evidence which you are about to give now?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Will you tell the Committee if you will, what you recall about this incident, in paragraph 1 at page 2?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes, Sir.  Mr Chairman I'm reminded that the incident in question took place in the period 7 to 15 July 1990.  I first became involved in this incident when I was summonsed by Maj du Preez to the C R Swart Square offices of the Security Branch in Durban.  At the offices I found a person being held who had apparently been arrested by an askari.  At some stage Col Botha requested to speak to us in another office.  Present there were Col Taylor, Col Botha, Maj du Preez and myself.  It may have been that van der Westhuizen might also have been present.
	Col Botha informed us that the person held, i.e. Charles Ndaba, MK Zwelakhe, was his informant.  I remember being surprised by this news in view of the high profile of Mr Ndaba.  It was made clear during the discussion that Ndaba's arrest was a big mistake and that he would have to be released.  Botha asked Taylor to ensure that the askari did not spread the story that he had arrested Ndaba for the fear that it might become known that Ndaba was arrested by the Security Branch and immediately released, thereby raising the question whether he might be an informer of the Security Branch.
	It was decided to transfer Ndaba to a safe-house in Verulam which we made use of at the time.  This was in order to allow for some time to pass in order to monitor the situation. and allow Botha an opportunity of briefing or debriefing Ndaba.

MR VISSER: At C R Swart Square, was Mr Ndaba assaulted in any way in your presence?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Not in my presence Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Could I ask you just perhaps to go slightly slower so that the interpreter can keep up with the interpretation, Mr Wasserman?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: Please continue.  Paragraph 7.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: At some stage during the day we were informed that Ndaba had a prior appointment to meet with Mr Mbuso Shabalala and it was decided that he should keep the appointment.  We went to the appointed spot with him in order to monitor the meeting in case Mr Ndaba's arrest that day, might have placed him in danger because we were not certain whether the ANC might have received information about it.  At the time we suspected that there was an ANC mole who had been infiltrated into the Security Branch at C R Swart Square.  This suspicion was later confirmed although not proved.

MR VISSER: Well, we know from the evidence of Mr Maharaj that this was in fact so.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: At the appointed place, Col Botha, Sgt van der Westhuizen and Ndaba got out of the car and walked to the pre-arranged meeting place.  They then disappeared from sight.  We were then called on the radio by Botha who gave us the position and description of a car into which Ndaba had got into.  Du Preez and I drove to a point where we could observe the car and stopped.  We knew that a secret signal had been agreed upon in advance for Ndaba to give should he feel threatened.
	At some stage Ndaba gave the signal and we immediately left our vehicle and approached the blue Toyota Corolla.

MR VISSER: Can I just stop you there?  Did you actually see him give the signal or was it that you were told?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I never saw the signal being given myself.

MR VISSER: Were you told to move in?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: By whom?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: By Maj du Preez.

MR VISSER: By Maj du Preez.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: Alright.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: We "arrested" Ndaba and Mbuso Shabalala, who's MK name was Jack.

MR VISSER: Now can I just ask you for some clarification there?  You see Mr Botha gave evidence to say that his recollection was that only Mr Shabalala was "arrested", but not Mr Ndaba.  What was your impression?  What was the situation there?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, at the "arrest" of Shabalala, Ndaba was also "arrested", it would appear as though he was arrested and he was taken away by Mr van der Westhuizen.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Why did, in your mind, why was it important to make it appear that Mr Ndaba was also being arrested, together with Shabalala?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: This would indicate that Mr Ndaba was not getting preferential treatment and he was also arrested.

MR VISSER: Yes, not to raise suspicions with Mr Shabalala.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: That is the correct position.

MR VISSER: What precisely was your part in this "arrest"?  Who did you deal with?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, du Preez and I entered the back of the vehicle and pulled Mr Shabalala into the back, where he was detained by us.

MR VISSER: Was he sitting upright, or what was the position, when you pulled him to the back?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes, he was sitting upright Mr Chairman, then we pulled him over the seat, to us in the back of the vehicle.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And after that had happened, was he then in an upright position of what?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: He was placed down on the seat with this head down.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Could he see outside what was happening with Ndaba from the position in which he was in?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: He would be unable to see.

MR VISSER: Alright.  What happened then?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, du Preez and I transported Shabalala in his vehicle to the safe-house on the instructions of Mr Botha.  While Botha and Ndaba followed in Botha's vehicle.

MR VISSER: Shabalala's vehicle, what was that?  What was the make and the colour of the vehicle?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, it was a blue Toyota Corolla.

MR VISSER: Right.  What happened at the safe-house?