Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-29

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, committee members.  I now call on the third applicant, Johannes Sithole.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Sithole, may you please stand up so you may take an oath.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone, the microphone, the microphone.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Please furnish this committee with your full names.

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: My name is Johannes Mcoques Sithole.

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: (Duly sworn in, states).

SISI KHAMPEPE: You may be seated, you are sworn in.
EXAMINATION BY MR WILLS

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Sithole, you have been charged together with three other persons, the other three applicants in respect of the murder of Mr Lombo in October 1990 and you are making this amnesty application in respect of that charge.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You have made an affidavit in respect of your application.  Do you confirm the contents of that affidavit?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct, it is true.

MR WILLS: Mr Sithole, in the late 1980's there were basically two parties operating in the upper Edendale area.  It was the UDF and the IFP. You have indicated in your affidavit that you became a member of the UDF.  Why did you do so?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: I decided to become a UDF member, because the UDF was fighting for the, for human rights.  It was not against human rights and Inkatha was harassing the people, killing them, taking their clothes and properties, doing all the things that were not acceptable within the community.  Therefore, I decided to join the UDF.

MR WILLS: You were also a member of the National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa, NUMSA.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And this union is closely affiliated to the UDF?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You indicated in your affidavit that there was a certain Mafoeto Ngobo who was a senior member of the UDF who actually discussed the UDF's policies with you.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you have also indicated in the affidavit that you knew the deceased prior to his death, that is Mr Lolo Lombo.  Can you explain to the committee how you knew the deceased?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Lolo Lombo, I arrived in 1974 when he started working at Scottish.  He was working there, he did not last.  He had a quarrel with the employers and he had to leave the place.  After I knew that it was him, it continued during the political organisations involvement and he also continued killing people.  On one day I was alighting on one of the stop at Mzongwane and they were going to one of their places where they normally have meetings and when he saw me he called my by name and tell me that he was going to kill me and I am going to die like those whom have just recently died.  He mentioned Balang Dangobo.  That was one of the most respected Induna in that area and he had been killed.  He also mentioned his younger son by the name Umfanisenie and he told me I am going to be killed just like them.  Those people who killed the whole family, the children and the mother.  That made me to realise that I should take  part in his elimination.

MR WILLS: You have heard what the other two applicants have said in respect of your involvement in this matter.  Do you confirm what they have said in respect of your activities?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Yes, I do.

MR WILLS: Basically, they have said that you were employed or you were given the task of driving the first two applicants to the scene where the mission was conducted.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is the truth, because what happened is that early in the morning I was sitting at home.  I was with Philemon Dlamini, Mpendle.  We were so hurt concerning this issue.  He came to me and told me that I have to drive the car to a place called Henley Dan.  We were going to meet some men whom I was supposed to drive to Joshua Doore.  It happened, we left the area.  When we arrived and Henley Dan we found a car which I did not knew, it was my first time to see it.  It looked like a Golf and it was red in colour.  It looked like there were people inside that car.  We stopped from a distance and one of us got out and went to that car and he spoke to them and come back after some few minutes and he came with two men who I did not know.  I was seeing them for the first time.  I did not even know their names.
	We then drove to Joshua Doore.  I went there to park there.  After they told me to park the car at Berger Street, if I remember well.  The two men left and went straight to Joshua Doore.  I did not know what they were going to do.  It did not take much time.  After they left I heard a gunshot and then I saw this man running towards me, coming back and then later there were some gunshots again.  These men jumped into the combi and they said you should leave this place as soon as possible and we left in so fast from, we left the place quickly.  While we were in Alexandria Road we came into contact with police cars and they stop us and arrested us.

MR WILLS: Yes, just going back in your evidence, when you arrived at Henley Dan prior to the time when the one person got out and went to red VW Golf, who was in your car at that stage?  Who were the persons in your car?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: It was myself, the driver, Philemon Dlamini and Mafoeto Ngobo.  We were three.

MR WILLS: And who was the person who got out of the car and went to the red VW and came back with the two unknown persons?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: It was Mafoeto Ngobo.

MR WILLS: And the two people he came back with you, with although you do not remember them or you did not know them at the time, you now know that they are the first two applicants, Mr Motaung and Mr Sibisi.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Yes, I knew later that, after we were arrested, that they were Motaung and Sibisi.

MR WILLS: Now, you said in your affidavit that you were told that you were going to assist in the operation to kill Mr Lombo prior to the operation.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: So, when you left for Joshua Doore that morning you realised that you were on a mission whereby Mr Lombo was going to be attacked.  Is that correct?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: But you did not personally know the details of exactly how that was going to be done?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Yes, I did not know what was going to happen.

MR WILLS: Now, can you tell the committee, in your experience, what the relationship was, in your view, between the police and UDF members?

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: Please may you repeat your question.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the committee, in your view, what the relationship was like between the police and UDF members in your area.

JOHANNES MCOQUES SITHOLE: I can briefly explain that in this way.  The relationship between the Inkatha and the police, one day it was, if I remember well, it was during the Seven Day fight or War, I do not remember the exact date.  This Lombo and his fellow sympathisers were coming with the police.  The police were dressed in uniform.  There were White police and Black policemen.  When people were burning houses, killing people the police were there, they did not offer any help.  That created an impression where I could not trust the police, because I thought they were part of the Inkatha people who were killing the people in our community.  Therefore, it was difficult for us to go to the police to ask for help, because we thought they were on the side of Inkatha and we decided to take the Law into our own hands.