Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-22

MZWANDILE GUSHU: It was a very bad situation because we were removed from the land where our fore-grandfathers' graves were.  Other people were sent to the Ciskei.

MR BLACK: Right.  And you go on to say that
"Whilst I was growing up, the abovementioned land issue was one of the major many injustices which my people suffered.  I became more politically aware and conscious of further injustices after I had met a highly respected an influential person by the name of Mrs Florence Gqoto who had once been incarcerated on Robben Island and had been released during the 1960s."
Is that correct?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: (No English translation)
MR BLACK
"My experiences of injustices and hardships suffered by my people resulted in my developing a negative attitude towards the Nationalist Party Government and in some ways towards white people in general."

MZWANDILE GUSHU: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Ja.  And at the bottom of page twenty seven (27)
"As already stated, Mrs Gqoto played a major role in my political education.  She was highly respected in our community and explained the land injustices to us and the manner in which the Nationalist Party Government stole land from the black community and allocated land to white farmers."
You confirm that?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.

MR BLACK: And then you go, page twenty eight (28), paragraph eight (8)
"I played an active role during the school riots in 1996.  I felt very strongly about being a victim of bantu education and resented the fact that the majority of our school subjects were taught to us in Afrikaans.  Our teachers also appeared to be acting as agents for the Government, in particular our principal Mr Mayitoza was clearly acting as a go-between to oppress.  I together with the other students protested in solidarity with the students of Soweto.  Mr Mayitoza used to assault us and used the police to try and suppress our protests."
Is that a correct summary of the situation?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.

MR BLACK: You go on
"As a result of the hardships and oppression which I suffered in the Goshen area, I decided to leave the area and to go and stay at Lingelihle Township in Cradock.  It was while I was in Cradock that I came into contact with political activists, like Matthews Goniwe, Sparrow Mkhonto, Ford Calata, Sisele Mhlawuli."

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.
MR BLACK
"And they have become to be referred to as the Cradock Four.  The police in Cradock area used to harass us repeatedly because of our political activities.  I was forewarned that the police were about to arrest me and to imprison me and this decided me to go to Cape Town."

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gushu, did you know Mr Mhlawuli?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, I know all of them.

CHAIRPERSON: How often did you meet Mr Mhlawuli?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Whenever there would be a political rally for the UDF, we used to meet during the political rallies of the UDF.  Sometimes in the township they used to give us advice on how to carry on with the struggle.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm talking about Mr Mhlawuli himself, not about ... (intervention)

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I'm also talking about him.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he not staying in Oudtshoorn?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I don't know him as a resident of Oudtshoorn, I know him as a resident of Cradock.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, for about two years before he was killed he was a resident of Oudtshoorn where he taught.

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I won't dispute that because as I mentioned in my statement, that I left home for Cradock.  I won't know because I was not a resident there in Cradock.  I only went there because I wanted to acquire more knowledge concerning politics.  So, I won't dispute the fact that he was a resident of Oudtshoorn.

CHAIRPERSON: Then you thought you're going to acquire of politics only in Cradock?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR BLACK: Right.  I think we got to the stage where you had been warned that the police were going to arrest you and you decided to go to Cape Town and I'll just refer to paragraph nine (9)
"Upon my arrival in Cape Town I immediately contacted comrades and fellow members of the African National Congress."

INTERPRETER: Can the speaker please come to the mike.
MR BLACK
"Upon my arrival in Cape Town I immediately contacted comrades and fellow members of the African National Congress.  During 1983 I formally joined the military wing of the ANC, namely Umkhonto weSizwe."
Is that correct?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.
MR BLACK
"I also played a leading role in the activities of the United Democratic Front, UDF."
Is that so?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.
MR BLACK
"The MK unit which I joined in operating in MKTC Crossroads area."
Yes, that's correct.
MR BLACK
"My activities in the UDF was to actively promote the aims and objectives of the UDF to establish a non-racial, non-sexist democracy.  I participated in defiance campaigns with the objective of making certain areas of South Africa ungovernable."
Is that correct?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.
MR BLACK
"While living in MKTC Crossroads I, together with a cross comrade and friend Ququara underwent military training and learnt to use various arms and military weapons.  I actively participated in military operations on behalf of MK in and around Cape Town.  A number of my comrades were killed and in particular I recall that during 1983 seven (7) of members of the ANC and members of my unit were gunned down by the police.  It was quite apparent that the Government of the day was actively supporting the so-called Wit Doeke who were, in our opinion, merely gangsters and agents of the Government who wanted to eliminate the UDF and anyone associated with the ANC."
Is that a summary of the events?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, we have heard evidence now that he committed himself to the activities of Umkhonto weSizwe.  Shouldn't we get onto the merits now?  He's now fallen under the line of orders, isn't it?

MR BLACK: Very well, Mr Chairman.  But I would like him to confirm under oath the remainder of the contents of these pages, if I can.  He need not necessarily read it out.  I'll just get it confirmed and explain to him.  Mr Gushu, as indicated, it would appear that sufficient evidence has been set out that by this stage you were committed to the ANC and you were an active member of Umkhonto weSizwe.  Is that so, in Cape Town?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.

MR BLACK: If you look at page twenty nine (29) in front of you.  Have you read this, say paragraphs eleven (11), twelve (12, thirteen (13), fourteen (14) and fifteen (15) on that page?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, I read that.

MR BLACK: Yes.  Do you confirm that the contents on that page are correctly reflected what you intend to say?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, that's correct.

MR BLACK: And I would ask you to turn to page thirty (30) please.  In paragraphs sixteen (16), seventeen (17), eighteen (18) you refer to the death of your commander, MK Commander Decks Dekuze.  Have you read those paragraphs?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, I read that.

MR BLACK: Now, you give an explanation how you came to leave Cape Town and go to the Winkelhaak Mines in Secunda.  That's contained in paragraphs nineteen (19) and twenty (20) on that page thirty (30).

MZWANDILE GUSHU: After I realised that my life was in danger in Cape Town because of the police, I decided to leave Cape Town.  I went home.  When I arrived home I met with Zweli Dumile.  He told me that he was working in the Winkelhaak Mines and I decided that it's good for me to go with him.  I left with him, Zweli Dumile.  We left for Secunda.

MR BLACK: Right.  Now, after arriving there, you explained that you were a member of MK and you intended to play an active and constructive role in the community.  I refer you to page thirty one (31).