Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-05-06

MR SEREKO: Those people who were abducting our people, they are working together with a certain neighbour of ours.  We know his house.  He, that person is staying in our area and that person was dealing with those people from outside.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this shop where this person was allegedly found, where was this shop?  In your  village?

MR SEREKO: Yes, it was in our village.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now these people that you speak about, the neighbour, the people from the other  village,  the  people  at  the shop,  politically, did you know, have any idea of where they,  where  they  stood  politically?   What  their  political  views  were,  who  they supported politically ?  Is that, was that ever a factor ?

MR SEREKO: Those people were supporters of the Christian Democratic Party.

RUSSELL ALLY: Look, you're sure about that?

MR SEREKO: Yes, I'm definitely sure about it.  I'm sure about it, because in - I'll put it very straight that that person was a Member of Parliament  in the former government.

RUSSELL ALLY: And you believe that these people were assisting in trying to abduct people?

MR SEREKO: Yes, they were helping in abducting the people in our village.

RUSSELL ALLY: But nobody was abducted from your village you said.  There was an attempt but the person was found?

MR SEREKO: Yes, that's true.  There was no person who was abducted.

RUSSELL ALLY: That - you patrolled your village in order to protect the community.  Now how did you actually do this?  You gave us one example of a car and you stopped the car and you said to the person must leave  the spare tyre  behind.  What else did you do when you were patrolling to protect the community,  what kinds of things did you do?

MR SEREKO: We were manning a  roadblock at Dinokana, at the exit to Zeerust.  We were sleeping in the veld, then we'll put one boy with a torch.  When a car approaches, he will stop that car, after it has stopped, we would come from the veld then we'd count the car, then from there we would go to the car, but ultimately, firstly is that car which, who, whom the, the owner gave us the spare wheel  and  the  SADF hippo and the Chief's car.  Even, even in the village, we would have people who, who'd patrol and keep on observing all the houses inside to the village.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you ever have an incident where a car refused to stop or where the people in the car were angry with you for trying to stop them ?

MR SEREKO: No, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: No incidents where people refused to stop ?

MR SEREKO: No, Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say that you were actually charged, but you don't tell us what, what was the charge.  You went to court and you had a lawyer and you were charged.  What was the charge that they laid against you ?

MR SEREKO: We were charged with overthrowing the government.  We were not committing sabotage, but we patrolling our area because the police were not coming to protect the, our community.

RUSSELL ALLY: The charge that you wanted to overthrow the government,  is that what the charge sheet said, or did it say something else?  Did it say public violence perhaps, or, can you remember ?

MR SEREKO: It was about public violence.  They were saying  we were committing sabotage.

RUSSELL ALLY: Where there any, did they produce any witnesses ?  Did any people come to court to testify against you ?

MR SEREKO: Yes, we had witnesses who testified for the state whom we were meeting with them in the roads during our patrols.

RUSSELL ALLY: What  did  these witnesses  say in  court ?  Can  you give us a - can you
remember what kind of things were they saying ?

MR SEREKO: The witnesses were testifying about what appeared on the records by saying we were overthrowing the government.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did they accuse you of assault, of forcefully stopping people, forcing people to get out of motor cars?  Anything like that ?

MR SEREKO: We were not found guilty during that court case.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did you yourself institute any action against the police who you say tortured you ?  Did you lay a charge against them ?

MR SEREKO: We didn't lay a charge against the police, because what I would say is that we couldn't do anything, because those people were our government and we were subjected  by their actions.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.
PROF. MEIRING: Mr Sereko, just a few brief questions about your own personal circumstances.  You were about twenty four years of age when you were arrested, is that correct?   It was in 1989 when it happened.  1989.  Twenty four years.

MR SEREKO: I, I'm not sure how old I was.
PROF. MEIRING: Did you go to school ?

MR SEREKO: Yes, I did.
PROF. MEIRING: When did you leave the school ?

MR SEREKO: I left school in 1983.
PROF. MEIRING: And what standard did you achieve at that stage ?

MR SEREKO: Standard seven, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Seven.  And did you work ?

MR SEREKO: I worked in the mines.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you.  And are you still working in the mines ?

MR SEREKO: No, I'm not working in the mine, in the mines.  I left in 1989 after I've been dismissed.
PROF. MEIRING: Were you able to work afterwards, or did you not find work after, after your torture.

MR SEREKO: I was employed at Mosalami Game Reserve, then I was dismissed because they said I am not wanted because I was the person who was trying to overthrow the government.
PROF. MEIRING: Are you married ?

MR SEREKO: I'm not married, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Do you have children that you have to care for ?

MR SEREKO: I've two children whom  I'm taking care of.
PROF. MEIRING: How old are they ?

MR SEREKO: The first one was born in 1984,  the second one was born in 1994.
PROF. MEIRING: The last question is just about your parents.  Are you parents still living and where do they live ?

MR SEREKO: My  parents are still alive.  They're staying just at home.  My parent is working at the military base in Zeerust.
PROF. MEIRING: While you are unable to work, you've been dismissed from the Game Reserve who looks after you and your children?  Where do you find money to live from?

MR SEREKO: My  parents take care  of me and  I'm trying temporary work in
our village.
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you very much.  That completes my questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Seroke, just some clarification.  Sereko.  I just want clarification.  You say that you are part of the ANC underground.  The police, when they arrested you and were torturing you, in your statement you said they kept making the comment that we don't want politicians in the area and also you were charged with trying to overthrow the government.  Can you just give us some,  your own perspective  of those things that I've just said ?

MR SEREKO: We were just young people who didn't understand anything.  For me to understand is when I met ANC people to teach me about my human rights and about other people's human rights.  After that I associated with the ANC's policies and listened to other youths and respect other people, then I would explain about  my association with ANC people to the local youth that we should do the right things.  Our parents in their committee meetings, we as children, we were not able to advise the older people, but we, we briefed ourselves that we should advise our parents because our parents are old and they were illiterate.  Ultimately, when we wanted to talk, they say we are talking politics.  At that time we were not clear what is politics and what is not politics.  That is then, therefore, that our parents said we are politics whilst we were not agreeing with them.  That is then that I said, we, the children, can know what's about politics.