Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We decided to approach Nkanyiso who had a better knowledge about the movements of this kombi.  We then went to Nkanyiso

CHAIRPERSON: Just give us the name of the person so that we can write it down properly.  Who did you go and discuss this with, who did you go and talk to?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Nkanyiso.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you spell that name?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: N-K-A-N-Y-I-S-O.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes how do you spell that name?

INTERPRETER: N-K-A-N-Y-I-S-O.

CHAIRPERSON: And his surname?

MR MALAN: The second applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh I am sorry the second applicant. Yes carry on.

MR ALBERTS: Is that the second applicant in this application?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: That is true.

MR ALBERTS: What happened when you met up with Mr Ndlovu?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We got into Makhekhe's car and proceeded to Nkanyezini to look for Nkanyiso.  We found him at Ngidi's stored and took him with us.  On our way, we told him about our plans.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We asked him to explain to us the movements of this kombi.  He did that.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We then influenced him to be with us when we attacked that kombi.

MR ALBERTS: Where did you go to then?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We then went to Makhekhe's house because all our discussions happened in the car.

MR ALBERTS: Yes and at Makhekhe's house what happened?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We waited at Makhekhe's house, thereafter Makhekhe took out three firearms, an AK 47, a shotgun and R1 rifle.  He gave an AK 47 to Nkanyiso, an R1 rifle to me and carried a shotgun.

MR ALBERTS: When was this?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: He took out three firearms.

MR ALBERTS: What kind of weapons was that?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It was an AK 47, a shotgun and an R1 rifle.

MR ALBERTS: What did you do with the three weapons?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: To kill.

MR ALBERTS: What weapon did you take?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I had a rifle.

MR ALBERTS: And the second applicant?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: He had an AK 47.

MR ALBERTS: And Makhekhe the shotgun. Okay what did you then do?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Thereafter he sprinkled us with muti.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We then planned where we were going to attack that kombi.

MR ALBERTS: Did you then go to that place?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We decided that it should be on a deserted road coming from town.

CHAIRPERSON: Which town?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Pietermaritzburg.

MR ALBERTS: Did you then go to that place?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, we went there.

MR ALBERTS: And when you got there what did you do?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We slept there because we arrived during the night.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We waited since 4 o clock in the morning for the kombi to drive past there ...[intervention]

MR ALBERTS: Yes, and what happened on the following morning?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.  We went for this kombi driven by Qeda.

MR ALBERTS: Why were you waiting, were you waiting for a specific kombi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Okay and did the kombi eventually arrive?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Late in the afternoon, this kombi came.  When we saw it approaching, we started shooting.

MR ALBERTS: How far were you from the kombi when you started shooting?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We were as far from here to the wall there.

MR ALBERTS: Approximately 10 to 15 metres.

MR WILLS: With respect Mr Chairperson, I estimate that distance to be 8 metres.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I agree.

MR WILLS: As the Committee pleases.

MR ALBERTS: Tell us in detail what happened from the time you started shooting at this vehicle?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: When we saw it approaching and was not far from us, we started shooting.

MR ALBERTS: How many shots were fired?  How many shots did you fire?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I fired until the magazine was empty.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know how many rounds an R1 magazine can take?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: There were twenty rounds of ammunition.

MR ALBERTS: And after the magazine was empty did you reload?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: No, I did not.  I had two magazines.

MR ALBERTS: Did you use both magazines?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, I used both but did not finish the second magazine.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know how many shots the second applicant and the third person fired?

MR MALAN: Could we just come back to the second.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I did not count.

MR MALAN: You say the second casket wasn't finished, how many bullets did you use from that one?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I did not see how many were left.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes carry on.

MR ALBERTS: Did you move ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I think his answer was he didn't know how many bullets his companions fired.

MR ALBERTS: Was there a lot of shooting?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It was a long time when we started shooting at it.  We were still shooting at it when it drove past us until it stopped.

MR ALBERTS: And did you shoot at, during all of this time?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: And after the kombi stopped?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: After it stopped, we approached it and were still shooting.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: When we approached it we realised that our victims were not the people we were looking for.  The kombi was not carrying the ANC supporters but the members of the public.  We also saw that there were females in the kombi, but we went on shooting. Although we had seen that these commuters were women, we went on shooting because they were staying in the ANC area.  We wanted the ANC to feel what we felt.

MR ALBERTS: And eventually when the shooting did stop what did you do?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: After we shot at them, some of them were already injured.

MR ALBERTS: Yes, and where did you go to then?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We stopped shooting and went into the bushes.

MR ALBERTS: Yes and then?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We waited until it became dark.

MR ALBERTS: Yes, where did you go to?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We then went to Nkanyiso's house.

MR ALBERTS: Was that at the end of this incident?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We gave Nkanyiso the firearms to hide them for us.

MR ALBERTS: And did you then disperse?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, we dispersed.

MR ALBERTS: What did you hope to achieve by attacking this kombi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: There are IFP supporters in Mboyi.  Our shortest route to go to town passed Nkanyezini.  We could no longer, however, use this short route to town because they were shooting at us.  I was once shot at too.  We could no longer go past there.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name of that place?  What area that you had to go through?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Nkanyezini.

MR ALBERTS: Yes, can you explain to us what you hoped to achieve by attacking this kombi?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Nkanyezini is an ANC stronghold and we people from Mboyi could no longer walk past there.  We could no longer go to town to buy.  We were imprisoned in our area.  Our people would be free to walk after this.

MR ALBERTS: What do you mean by saying that the route, the town was blocked?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Our aim was to avenge.  Secondly, we could no longer walk past Nkanyezini.

MR ALBERTS: My question is how come that you could not pass through that area any more?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: They were shooting at us.  I was also shot in January 1993.  We were blocked from walking there.

MR ALBERTS: How would the attack on this vehicle help you to move through this area again?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Our intention was to kill the people who were attacking the IFP supporters.  This kombi was being used to ferry these people.  It never carried members of the public, as far as we knew.  We did not intend to injure the people who were in the kombi at that time.