Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-22

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

BASHITSHILE MQANTI MASIKANE: (sworn states)

JUDGE NGCOBO: Yes, Mr Pretorius?

MR PRETORIUS: I'm indebted to my learned friend and the first part of the questions, I think Mr Vilakazi can answer them all for us.
	Mr Vilakazi, did you know a person by the name Dunki Zeto Vilakazi?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: I don't know any such person.

MR PRETORIUS: Did you have a brother who was also Vilakazi?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: I have my brothers but I don't know any such name.

MR PRETORIUS: Where did your mother loose her son, do you know?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Please repeat your question, do you mean where she lost her son?

MR PRETORIUS: Did she have a son which died which you referred to, that son, do you know where he was killed?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes.  When we are referring to the one at Shell House, that's the one I know, I don't know any other one.

MR PRETORIUS: I beg yours, what was his name?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: His name was Sepiwe Knodugwyke Vilakazi.

MR PRETORIUS: How old was he when he died?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: He was 30 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we go any further, according to the documents placed before us, the name of the deceased is given as Danke Zetu Vilakazi, are we talking about the same person?

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, that is what I tried to clear up, I had the same information but maybe there was a misunderstand between me and the mother.  This is the first time that her son was present today which I could communicate through him and it may be a misunderstanding.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Chairperson, it may be correct perhaps to adjourn so that I can clarify this with her instead of ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, we don't have to, just ask the son.
	What was the name of your brother who died?  I'm sorry but just give it to us again because I want to write it down.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Sepiwe Kondogwake Vilakazi.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR P A VAN WYK: Mr Chairman, if I may assist, that body was given a number, body number 828 of 94 at the inquest proceedings, for purposes of the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please proceed.

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	You said he was 30 years old, was he married at that time?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes, he was 30 years old, what was your next question?

MR PRETORIUS: Was he married?  The witness replied to the positive if I'm correct.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: He was not married yet, he already had a child, a three months old infant and was preparing to get married.  He had already paid the labola.

MR PRETORIUS: Was the three month old child his only child?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes, it's correct.

MR PRETORIUS: How old is Mrs Masikane?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: I would like to go through the ID quickly and refer to it.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I hear you referring to a Mrs Masikane, are you not making a mistake?

MR PRETORIUS: Her surname was given to me.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Whose surname?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Whose surname?

MR PRETORIUS: The mother.

JUDGE NGCOBO: ...[inaudible]

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

JUDGE NGCOBO: This woman, is she Masikane, her surname?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes, that's her maiden surname.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Now forget about that, forget about the ID, tell us now about Masikane, is that her maiden surname?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone wasn't on.

MR LAX: Sorry, he was asking whether the witness was married to Vilakazi, just for the sake of the interpreter, he didn't hear that.

JUDGE NGCOBO: So this is Mrs Vilakazi.

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you member of the Committee.
	Mrs Vilakazi, how old are you now?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She was born in 1939, November 23rd.

MR PRETORIUS: Is her husband still alive?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: No, he's not alive.

MR PRETORIUS: How many children does she have?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She only had one child.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Pretorius, there may have been a misunderstanding there, the deceased had one child but I'm not sure that it was necessarily conveyed to this witness how many children Mrs Vilakazi had.  There may some confusion there.

MR PRETORIUS: How many children does Mrs Vilakazi have?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Mr Vilakazi has one child.  She got married to my father's brother.

JUDGE NGCOBO: This is not your real biological mother isn't it?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes.

JUDGE NGCOBO: This Mum had one son?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Does that clear that?

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you Honourable Member.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Yes, carry on.

MR PRETORIUS: Who is supporting her now?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She is not supporting anyone.

MR LAX: The question was, who is supporting her?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She is not being supported by anyone, she earns her pension fund.

MR PRETORIUS: Prior to his death, did her son support her?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Please repeat your question.

MR PRETORIUS: Prior to his death during 1994, did her son support her?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: Yes, that's true.

MR PRETORIUS: Can you just explain how her son's death affected her family life?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: As I've already explained, the death of her son traumatised her so much and the entire family suffered that ordeal because he was the breadwinner and after she had the death of her son she lost consciousness immediately and after that she is suffering ailments of some kind and she is chronically ill and she lost her hearing as well, she can't hear properly.

MR PRETORIUS: Is she prepared to forgive the people that testified here for the death of her son?

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She is not prepared.

MR PRETORIUS: I've got no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRETORIUS

JUDGE NGCOBO: Mr Vilakazi, the question that the attorney asked, we would like to hear straight from Mrs Vilakazi as to what her comment is with regard to the question.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She says she's not prepared.

MR TIPP: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Vilakazi, please convey to Mrs Vilakazi that the fact of her son's death and her suffering is a matter of regret that we all share.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She says she has got absolutely not peace because that was the only son that she had.

MR TIPP: Does Mrs Vilakazi understand that her son died as a result of a wound from a sharp object like a spear and 	not because of a gunshot wound?

BASHITSHILE MQANTI MASIKANE: Nobody told me as to how he died, all I know is that he was shot.

MR TIPP: Please assure Mrs Vilakazi that her son did not die as a result of a gunshot wound and that nobody from the side of the ANC wielded the instrument that caused her son's death.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She can't hear, she seems to be experiencing some hearing problems.

INTERPRETER: He's relaying that to the witness.

SHAYESAKHE BETHWELL VILAKAZI: She says she wants to know as to where and how did he get injured.

MR TIPP: Mr Chairman, perhaps that is a matter that my learned friends might more fully inform Mrs Vilakazi of in good time.  We have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR TIPP

MR LAX: Can you just explain to Mrs Vilakazi that the lawyers are suggesting that the lawyers who act for her explain that to her after this.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you're in a position to explain to your client how her son died.

MR PRETORIUS: We are aware of what wounds caused his death indeed Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.