Amnesty Hearings — Middelburg — 2000-05-08

MR KOOPEDI: Okay, now perhaps if you could go back a little bit?  The people who you were with in this attack, were they two in number?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes they were two.  I was the third person.

MR KOOPEDI: Now who are these people, what are their names.

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: The late Comrade Solomon Lupalana Chilwane and the other gentleman was Shadrack Sakwane but he was known as Shakes.

MR KOOPEDI: What happened to the two gentlemen, if you know?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: The remaining comrade during my retreat to Zambia, I gave some information that he's in the country.  The last time I hear about him was that he was taken out of the country, I didn't ever see him until today.

MR KOOPEDI: So what you in fact say is that the one who was shot who had fell down is Solly Chilwane?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Now you've told this Honourable Committee that your mission was to disarm or to rob these firearms which you knew to be in this police station.  Did you ever talk about a situation where there would be resistance from the police inside?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes I gave the comrades because I was the commander of that unit, I said to them the mission of this operation is not to harm anybody but if it happened that we meet with any resistance.  Any way, there was no option, it was just to shoot back or to kill people who would be resisting because during that time police were regarded as part of the repressing elements in the country.

MR KOOPEDI: Out of this whole exercise did you personally benefit anything?  Did you get any personal gain be it material or financial?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: That was not personal gain in any way.  I know that in order to fulfil the mission of the ANC, it was not for personal gain.

MR KOOPEDI: So when you referred to when you said - page 5 Chairperson - on your application form that you received a benefit you actually were referring to what type of benefit?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: The benefit that I'm talking about is for the people of South Africa because South Africa today is liberated.  I worked for that, everybody now is living in a normal society.  It's the benefit I'm talking about, not personal one.

MR KOOPEDI: As far as your memory takes you, have you told this Honourable Committee all the relevant facts relating to this matter?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: What I've already told the Committee, I think that is what I've done, not further than that or to put some other expressions unless it may be there's other things that arise from the ...(indistinct).

MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chairperson, that will be the evidence in chief for the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Koopedi.  Ms Mtanga?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, can I be given a minute to consult with the two policemen who were at the police station?  In the evidence of the applicant there is something that contradicts what they've told me.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Maybe they should come and sit next to you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, before I go on with my questions, I just want to indicate that I have consulted with the Mbata family, that is the next-of-kin of Mr Mbata who died in this incident.  I have also Mr Molepi and Mr Moameye who were the colleagues of Mr Mbata and who were present at the time of this incident.  The third person, Mr Maglogwane, or he was a sergeant at the time, he was notified and a notice was faxed to him.  He has not attended the hearing, we don't know what his reasons are.
	The position of the victims is that they are not opposing this application.  However, they have requested me to ask questions for clarification.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS MTANGA: Mr Mahlakaone, can you give us, the victims would like to know how - what was your plan?  You said you went there not to attack the people inside the police station but to disarm them, that is avoiding loss of life.  How did you plan to do this?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes actually, as I was saying, the plan was not to harm anybody, it was only to disarm the police.  Unfortunately it happened that we ended up in a conflict or in exchange of fire due to the fact that during the time I jumped the fence I went into the area, I heard a shot.  That shot, it sounded like a pistol and I said no, my members doesn't have any pistols as far as I know.  We had some semi-machine guns and a machine gun.  Then I move round the building, I go straight, I find while I approached the entrance, I find that my member is lying next to the door.  So I realised that this person was shot.  Then I didn't retreat, I go straight because of one member, has lost his life, I have to really go in firing.

MS MTANGA: Mr Mahlakaone, did you do a reconnaissance of that police station?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes I did do reconnaissance

MS MTANGA: When did you do that?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: It was a month before the attack because I have done the sketch and I go back to the unit, I planned with them, I showed them all the possibilities of going through to the police station.

MS MTANGA: And what were your observations of the police station?  You said in your reconnaissance obviously you tried to avoid loss of life, you would have planned it accordingly.  So what were your observations of that police station?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: My observation was that I was expecting to get one person on the main entrance or right where they use as a charge office so that after we're holding up, I know exactly where was the safe, where they put weapons so that the person must be driven to weapon's safe and unlock the safe so that we must take all the weapons.  That was the planning but it didn't happen like that.

MS MTANGA: Were you aware that there were other policemen who slept in that police station?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: I was aware because I've done that reconnaissance first because there was a place where the policemen were sleeping, where they used to sleep.

MS MTANGA: And in your opinion, how were you going to avoid any crossfire from their side in the event that you held up this one person at the charge office?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: As far as my knowledge is concerned is that I know that the weapons that I was having were more powerful than the weapons that they used in the police station because they were using pistols as the reconnaissance that I've done, I know that they were using pistols.  That's why I took the heavier weapons.

MS MTANGA: You said you planned to hold up the person who would be at the charge office?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: Yes.

MS MTANGA: On that day the person who was working in the charge office was Mr Mbata who died in that incident.  How were you going to go about holding him up?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: I didn't see who is that person and I don't know who that person was in the charge office.  The only fact that I know is that we will find that person in the charge office.

MS MTANGA: How were you going to hold him up, what was your plan?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: To hold a person up is to - you point the person with a weapon so that he must not get a chance to produce his weapon.

MS MTANGA: Was this done?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: It was not done because the people who were in the police station they shot my member first. It was not done.

MS MTANGA: Who went into the police station first amongst your group?

RATSON NIKI MAHLAKAONE: It was the late Comrade Solly Chiwane.  He go straight with the main entrance where he find that person who was - I don't know whether he was right in the charge office because I jumped over at the back of the fence.