Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1997-08-13

MR WILKINSON: Mr Brink is right to say that this legislation places a tremendous burden on you and other members of the Committee in terms of having to reach a decision.  This case is no exception.  Yesterday Mr Marais presented his evidence.  Mr Purshotam of Legal Resources was invited to question this.  He rejected the invitation of the Committee.  I would then like to suggest that the yesterday's evidence should be judged in the light of the criteria.
	Mr Brink said that he didn't have a problem with Section 21(a) and (c).  His problem is in the political objectives.  So, to determine what the offence was that was connected with a political objective, there are six criteria in the legislation.  The members of the Committee, this is a serious request to you as I said during my submission.  
	We have to accept that no amnesty application is going to have a model answer to all six criteria and at the end of the day that's precisely what the legislation uses.  It uses the word "guidelines".  This doesn't mean that the application fails if one of the criteria is absent.  So my request is that 
what has been submitted, should be approached holistically and objectively.  
	We must look at the picture as a whole.  That's the only way in which this Committee is going to be able to build a bridge between a deeply divided past full of conflict and injustice, to the future.  That's the only way that this Committee is going to be able to realise the purpose of this legislation.  We cannot, because one or two criteria are absent, allow an application to fail.  Then a few aspects ...[intervention]

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Sorry but, before you go there.  I don't understand  your argument, the argument you are making that we should not dismiss an application because one or two criteria are not met.  That problem cannot arise because they are not requirements.

MR WILKINSON: The Act specifically refers to criteria.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Yes, not requirements.

MR WILKINSON: Yes, criteria, guidelines.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: So, I don't understand how you are concerned - how you are worried that we - unless, you see if there were requirements then your concern - I would understand the basis of your concern but we don't conceive of them as being requirements, they're just criteria.  So, the question of whether or not one or two or three have been met does not arise at all.  It's irrelevant.  It can't be a problem.

MR WILKINSON: If that's your approach Sir, certainly.  I just wanted to emphasize that they're not requirements.  The legislator could have used the words, "the Committee must" and then refer them to the criteria.  They could have made them obligatory - absolute - but my submission is that these are at the end of the day, criteria and the absence of one should not cause an application to fail.
	And then I want to refer you to this - I don't unfortunately have copies of this.  29th of March 1991, the third applicant says on the front page, "I'm sorry" and there's a long account of what he did.  And more specifically - now this is addressed to the victims who've testified today:
"Unfortunately, there are certain things in life you can't make right.  Words and apologies can't make it right.  Even if I get the death sentence, it won't bring back the fathers and husband's of those people.  It won't and that is what I regret the most".
So to my colleague, five years ago there was an apology.  You're right to mention it's not a requirement to apologise but this has in any case been done five years ago.  That's all Sir.

INTERPRETER: The microphone isn't on.  The speaker's mike is not on.

MR WILKINSON: It is marked as Schedule D.  I don't have copies for everyone but with your leave I shall submit - hand it up.  [no sound]

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee will consider this application in due course and give it's decision.  Thank you very much for all your assistance.  And to the public - to the ladies and gentlemen, I must say that this is the end of this particular application.  To those of you who have been injured and who have suffered financial loss and who gave evidence about their financial loss, steps I have no doubt, will be taken to be in touch with you to see what can be done by the Reparations Committee in due course.  You just have to be a little more patient.  Thank you very much.  We will now adjourn until 9.30 tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS