Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

CHAIRPERSON: We are now going to start with today's lists and call Ms Soya, Nomilile Phyllis Tandiwe Soya.

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson I would like to swear her in.

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: (sworn states)

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Chairperson I would lead her with questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you can do that, Rev Xundu?

REV XUNDU: We are aware that there are two witnesses who have applied to contradict what has been said by some of the victims and they've come here with their lawyers. We would like to cooperate with them as much as possible.  If they can notify us at a time that is convenient for their cases to be taken so that we take those cases at those specified times.  If those witnesses could report to the secretariat just in front there and indicate the time when they would like appear before the Commission, we would then arrange to arrange our schedule so that we take them that time or as close to that time as is possible.
 Secondly we would like to request them to make available to us the statements which they are going to be submitting to the Commission so that it's photocopied and made available to the panel before they appear before us.
 There are people who are going to appear in front of this Commission, their names have been named as the perpetrators, they would like to contradict what was said by the victims.  We are aware that there are two people who notified us that they would like to appear in front of us today. They are here with their legal representatives, we would like to reduce costs for their legal representatives, we would like them to indicate to our secretary that they are here and to indicate the time that they would like to appear in front of the Commission so that we can change our schedule in order for them to appear in the time that they would prefer to appear.  We will also like them to submit statements to the members of the panel to make five copies for the members of the panel so that when they appear before us we would have their statements.  Thank you.
 Thank you Mr Chairperson.

REV XUNDU: Mrs Nomilile, you have given us your story in your statement.  Can you please briefly give us a picture or a situation at that time so that when we lead you with questions we have a background. Please continue.

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Mr Chairperson and the panel of the Commission, as the young man before me has already said that at that time here in Grahamstown there was a state of emergency.  The youth did not attend schools. As a result the parents were disturbed by this, they tried by all means to persuade children to go back to school.  It was then that the peace-makers were formed because there was a parents' meeting at one of the schools but I don't remember the date.
 At that meeting it was concluded that the police have to be asked to take children to school here in Chosa Township and in other surrounding townships.

REV XUNDU: Who formed the organisation of the peace-makers, was it parents?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Did they see the grievances of the students as being reasonable or what?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: The parents did not see the grievances of the students as reasonable but as I'm looking at the situation they were not aware, they did not understand what the students wanted because myself, at the time I was not aware of what was going on.  We did not think that they would not want to attend school at that time.

REV XUNDU: You saw that the police were peace-makers?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes at that meeting we decided that we are going to ask the peace-makers to persuade the children to go back to school.  The went to the police, the parents decided to ask peace-makers, not the police because the police the police might shoot the children.

REV XUNDU: There was then a meeting with the peace-makers and the students, the peace-makers advising the students to go back to school?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: No it was not such an organisation, it was an organisation of parents in the township, they did not consult with the students.

REV XUNDU: You mean they did not consult the students altogether because the students have their organisation?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: The peace-makers also tried to make peace.

REV XUNDU: Did the executive of the peace-makers and the Students Executive Committee consult with each other?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: According to my knowledge I did not hear it like that.  I did not know whether there was cooperation between the two.  But they just wanted to persuade the students to go back to school.

REV XUNDU: Mr Soya, did he have a position in the peace-makers?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: No he was just a member because at home I asked him because he would be visited by peace-makers members. I would ask him whether he was a member, he would deny it but I found out later that he was a member of peace-makers.

REV XUNDU: In your statement you said that on the 14th of May 1980 the police together with the peace-makers, they wanted these children to go from their schools, the peace-makers chased the scholars from their schools, they were chased by the police and the peace-makers. But this is contradictory because you are saying that you wanted, the peace-makers wanted the children to go back to school.  What was exactly happening?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: There were many police in the township and they were not there in Chosa, the police did not - the peace-makers came then trying to chase these children to school.  The children were from the Andrew Moyaka School.  When the police arrived in that process they beat children up.  It was just confusion.

REV XUNDU: The people who testified here before they said that the police were disturbing everything, they were not making peace, what is your view about that?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: The peace-makers were parents, they wanted their children to go back to school.  The police came, they disrupted all this, they assaulted the children and the children tried to fight back and the peace-makers ran away.

REV XUNDU: The police wanted to use the peace-makers to oppress the children?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes it is so.

REV XUNDU: This created a conflict because the children saw the peacemakers as collaborating with the police?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes because I was on the children's side.  I thought that this was a mistake.

REV XUNDU: Mr Soya then got injured at that time.  The children hit him with pangas and he died.

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes they were chasing them, the children ran away but at some point they came back and they fought back.  Some parents ran away but I think my husband couldn't run away, but as a result of that they found him.

REV XUNDU: Did he instantly or did he die in hospital?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: He died instantly.

REV XUNDU: Was there a charge laid?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: I went to an attorney, Mr Chubb, for advice, I did not know what to do.  I was just there for legal advice because I wanted to know what to do.  He told me, but firstly I went to Mr Dullar, Mr Dullar referred me to another attorney because he said that the parents of these children were his clients.  He showed me their photos, he showed me photos of parents who were beaten up by these children, he told me that he cannot take my case, he will refer me to another attorney. He showed me another attorney's office in the next street, and he told me to choose one lawyer.  I then chose Mr Chubb.  Mr Chubb said that this was a State case, he cannot accept my case.

REV XUNDU: What then happened, were they sentenced?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Who witnessed all this?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: There were witnesses who were with my late husband and I met them in court. I did not know who informed and how were they informed.