Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ermelo — 1997-05-22

THOMAS MANTHATA: As you put it nobody amongst the Inkatha people was ever arrested who could have appeared in court where you could be saying that person was acquitted because nobody could be identified with the killing.  Sorry, I might have asked a very lengthy question.  I'm coming to this where you're saying the Commission should help you to find out the person who killed your husband.  Now it becomes clear that you are saying Inkatha members could have killed your husband on that day but because of that kind of confusion no single Incatha person was ever brought before the court being accused with killing  your husband.  Are we correct to say that ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: That's correct.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Which seems to even defeat the ends of the Commission because if we accept that there was that kind of mass killing, to get a single person out of it may not be easy.  I'm not saying we are not going to do it, we are not going to try to find that out, I'm just trying to point out how difficult the work that you demand of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee might be.  With that in mind we are saying the Commission will see what it can do.  How old is . your son beside you?  Pinkie, Vusa, I'm sorry.   How old is Vusa ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: He is twenty one years old.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Twenty one.  How many years is he out of school because of lack of maintenance ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: Two years.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Two years.  In what grade was he at the time he couldn't go further ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: He was in Standard nine.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Standard nine.   Does Vusa know what is it he could do if he had to go back to school ?  Or does Vusa just want employment and that's the end ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: He also suggested that he would like to go and work but unfortunately he can't find employment.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Well, I have no further questions Ma Sibiya. Thanks.

MR LEWIN: Doctor Ally ?

RUSSELL ALLY: Mrs Sibiya you husband worked for Spoornet.

PINKIE SIBIYA: That's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: At the time that he died, how many years had he been working for Spoornet ?  Do you have any idea ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: I think it was about fourteen years.

RUSSELL ALLY: Fourteen years.  Did Spoornet not pay you out anything from your husband's contribution to the Pension Fund or the Provident Fund ?  Did you get any money from Spoornet ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: I'd say they did pay some money.  It was R13 000 and I used to receive monthly allowances of R300 00.  I used that money to pay rent for the house and with that money I wasn't able to buy the other necessities.  Do you still get that R300 00 a month from Spoornet ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: In your statement that you gave to us there is a certificate, it looks like a Life Insurance Certificate, Old Mutual, a policy.  Was this a policy that your husband had ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: That's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did Old Mutual pay you out on this policy ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: After claiming the money from Old Mutual it was discovered that my husband had a child outside of the marriage and I was told that the mother of the child also had a claim on the same money therefore the lawyer representing the other woman took of the money from Old Mutual.  However it was said that my ............... Old Mutual and the lawyer went to Old Mutual and  represented himself as the person who is representing me and he managed to get the money out.  However we went to talk to Mr Bia -  I would try to telephone Old Mutual in Cape Town and they said they have sent the money to Ermelo branch and I must go there.  When  I went there I was told that the cheque had been signed out by Mr van Wyk and he is in possession of the cheque.  I went to van Wyk and he said there's nothing to talk about.  He said the money should go to the child out of the marriage.  That's how it ended.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sorry, let's just try and get this absolutely clear.  The money from Old Mutual, you did not receive any of that money.  It went to Mr van Wyk who said that he was representing the mother of the child that your husband had with this woman ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: That's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you ever try to get any legal advice as to whether what Mr van Wyk did was legal, was proper ?  Did you take up the matter with a lawyer or any Advice Center ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: I tried to go to Mr Moody.  While we were busy with the case, he explained to me that the other woman was entitled to the money because the child was my husband's child.  I used to pay this Mordien, my lawyer and every time I went there he demanded R200 00 and I gave it to him and later I gave up and I just thought maybe it's better if they take the money because there's nothing coming out of it because I couldn't keep up the payments with my lawyer.  He wanted money every day I went to see him and the case was taking such a long time.

RUSSELL ALLY: Presently what is going on with this case ?  Is anything still happening ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: Everything is quiet at the moment.  I went to some lawyers who asked me, after getting the cheque.  When I arrived at their offices one of the gentleman who was said to be Chief of the Court talked to them saying that he couldn't talk to me because if ever he was to talk to me I should come there with my lawyer and he will talk with my lawyer.  Therefore I contacted Mr Bia.  He said I have to make a sworn Affidavit in connection with the lawyer who took this money unlawfully because Old Mutual was saying the cheque was signed on my name.  Mr Bia called me on this particular day, to-day, to-date I was supposed to go and see him unfortunately I had to come to the Commission.

RUSSELL ALLY: What sum are we speaking about, this money from Old Mutual, how much money is it to you ?  Were you told ?  Do you know ?

PINKIE SIBIYA: After the death of my husband they gave us two thousand for burial purposes.  They said there was R6 300 remaining as a balance.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Mrs Sibiya.  In your statement there is the record of the inquest as well which really says what you say in your statement that the cause of death of your husband was the result of wounds caused by shooting to the head and that the person or persons are unknown.  That's what the inquest records.   Thank you, thank you very much and thanks for sharing that other information with us.

MR LEWIN: Thank you Doctor Ally.    Mrs Sibiya, thank you very much for coming and sharing that story with us.  There's no way of saying that you sadness will be reduced by time.  I don't believe that if every can.  It's obviously very great and very tense at the moment because it's so recent but all we can hope is that in some way this has contributed in a small way to making the conflicts of the past easier by explaining what happened.  For you still, you have a young family to look after.  You must find comfort where you can.  We offer our sympathy.  We will try to provide the information that you ask for.  We do have the case numbers.  We have the phone numbers of the people who for instance signed this declaration which is August 1994.  So we can follow up on that and with our sympathy we wish you very well and again as I say, thank you very much for coming.  Go well.