Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

ADV DE JAGER: Was that because the majority of the people staying there were supporters of the ANC?

MR MOKOENA: Definitely.

ADV DE JAGER: But they also attacked other people who were not supporters of the ANC?

MR MOKOENA: To those who have, those who they have committed their crimes to, I know of those who were the members, the supporters and the followers of the ANC.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, I understand that.  Do you know any people who have been attacked who were not members of the ANC?

MR MOKOENA: Not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: I got the impression from your evidence that this was a gang that just attacked the community including the members of the student group and the ANC Youth League, in other words they were terrorising the community, not necessarily just members of the ANC?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, like I've said, their actions were ranging from pick-pocketing, the stabbings and all that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in other words they were subjecting the entire community to that kind of activity.

MR MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Like a group of gangsters?

MR MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And among their victims were members of the Youth Congress?

MR MOKOENA: Mostly were the members of the Youth Congress.

CHAIRPERSON: Well you've given us just two or three names.

MR MOKOENA: Yes, I can give other names if I may do so.

CHAIRPERSON: If you saw them do it.  You see, I don't want you to come and tell us what you heard, others who heard it from somebody else.

MR MOKOENA: Yes.  As it was known, I think even some of the people who were living there can witness to the fact that they were doing their actions, ranging from pick-pocketing, stabbings and the likes to the community.

ADV DE JAGER: There's also been mention that they raped people.

MR MOKOENA: Yes, some of them, the ones being sentenced to prison for a crime of rape, so raping was one of their objectives if I can say.

ADV DE JAGER: So the police in fact arrested some of them?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, during that time of the crime of rape, it was during the time 1986/'87, that time.

MR KOOPEDI: You have mentioned in your application the name of John Mokome, could you tell the Honourable Committee who he is and what happened to him, if anything?

MR MOKOENA: Mr John Mokome is a friend, he's a comrade and he's been a friend from childhood.  We have been to school together and even now we are still on good terms, Mr Mokome, as a friend and a comrade.

MR KOOPEDI: But did anything happen to him, in particular was there any conflict or was he ever attacked by a gang member?

MR MOKOENA: Yes.  It was on the night of the 7th of September when he was attacked by the very same criminal gang.

MR KOOPEDI: Do you know why he was attacked?

MR MOKOENA: Pardon?

MR KOOPEDI: Do you know why he was attacked?

MR MOKOENA: Actually I don't know why he was attacked, but what can be the cause of the attack is what happened just before he left us where we were sitting, left us with the reason of going home.  He was accompanied by one of the comrades who was residing at that section, Mr Kadi Sekome, who then came back after what happened to him and Mr Mokome.
	He just came to inform us or to alert us about the attack on Mr Mokome and that is when we rushed to the scene and we found Mr Mokome lying in a pool of blood with holes, stabbings all over his body.

MR KOOPEDI: Now, to your knowledge, why was he attacked?  After being told by this Mr Sekome, why was Mr Mokome attacked?

MR MOKOENA: As to his explanation about the attack, Mr Mokome just told us that KK, Twala, Big Five, Malgas, Moki and other members of the criminal gang just attacked them when they entered ...[intervention]

MS GCABASHE: Sorry, you're going to fast, start again with those names, KK?

MR MOKOENA: KK, Twala, Big Five, Moki, Malgas, and other members of the gang who were with one of the girls, two of the girls who were living at the same section with us, attacked Mr Mokome and Mr Sekome as they entered Block 7 where we were staying.

MR KOOPEDI: Now after the attack on Mr Mokome, did you as members of the Youth League take any action?

MR MOKOENA: Of course we did take action as members of the ANC Youth League.

MR KOOPEDI: What was the action?  Perhaps let me ask, after this killing, was there a meeting, did people meet and if so, what was discussed in that meeting?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, we did meet just after the attack, as we were trying to follow the information that can lead us to catch or to find those who were responsible, to find or to catch those who were responsible for the attack.
	We did have a meeting as comrades of Block 7 at that time, to can trace or to get any information that can lead us to catch or find the perpetrators.

MR KOOPEDI: So it is in this meeting that it was agreed that you were going to follow-up the assailants, the people who attacked your comrade?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, actually in that meeting so many things had been discussed, including the attack to the them General Secretary ...[indistinct], the attack to the family of Matsaba where a young boy lost his life and one of the family members sustained injuries from head to body.
	It was now the third attack at our section to Mr Mokome, on the night of the 7th of September 1991.  After we have discussed we got the information from one of the girls who were present during the attack on Mr Mokome.  From then on ...[intervention]

MR KOOPEDI: What was this information, the information that you got from this person you call a girl?

MR MOKOENA: Okay, the girl's name is Rebecca Silogilwe.  Rebecca Silogilwe gave us the information that she witnessed the attack on Mr Mokome, who was stabbed at random by the deceased and other criminal gang members.
	From then on, after we had taken her to show us where we can find them, we started to go in search from where they used to go and enjoy themselves.  We go there house to house trying to find any information that can lead us to those who were responsible for the attack. 
	After failing to find one, we proceeded along again to their parental homes, each and everyone where he was staying.  Others I didn't know where they were staying but with the help of Rebecca Silogilwe we managed to find their residential homes, and we did ask from their 
parents, we did report about what had happened to Mr Mokome and no-one was their.  Even their families didn't know about the whereabouts of the victims, of the gang members and what were they doing when they attacked Mr Mokome.
	From then on this girl, Rebecca Silogilwe told us that if they're not around the township, they might have gone to Bekkersdal where they were owing a zozo at the X section at Bekkersdal, Westonaria.

CHAIRPERSON: They were owning a what?

MR MOKOENA: A shack, a zozo.

CHAIRPERSON: A zozo?

MR MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Zozo means a shack?

MR MOKOENA: A shack.  After now getting the information from the girl, Rebecca Silogilwe, we didn't take that information for granted because to us and other comrades in the section it was a new thing to us to know that this criminal gang did have a place not around the township and to my concern it counts that maybe that place is a hiding place for them because most of the time after they committed the crime and even though the crime was reported to the police, they are not being fined for their responsibilities.
	So all of us as the comrades of Block 7 did go further with this information we received from the girl, Rebecca Silogilwe.  As it was late at night on the night of the 7th, we agreed by saying that we will have to meet tomorrow morning to discuss furthermore about the information we received from the girl, Rebecca Silogilwe. 
	What happened on Sunday the 8th ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: How many of you met?