Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR BRINK: Yes, Mr Chairman.  I told them - they all came here.  These are people who come from a very remote area, so a Form 2 couldn't be posted to them.  There are very few - in Trust Feeds there are no postal addresses.  It was as a result of the assistance I received from a member of the Attorney-General's staff that I contacted a Superintendent Marion, who was involved in the investigation at a later stage in the trial.  Superintendent Marion knows all these people, and he gave them notice of the venue and the date for hearing.  These people were to have been here at 9 o'clock this morning.  I personally spoke to Mr Mbongwe, who is an educated man,
	/he is a
he is a schoolteacher, who is the victim in the arson matter.  I spoke to him and confirmed in writing, so he was fully aware of that.  But as far as the rest of these people who are in the hall are concerned - those are the next of kin and the victims - their rights have been explained to them and they propose, as I understand it, electing a representative to, if they wish to oppose the application, give what evidence they wish.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Well, you have mentioned the point, the next point to which I was going to refer you, and I am mentioning this thing because we don't want unpleasant and difficult precedents to be created with regard to questions of procedure.  The Act prescribes a particular form which must be completed and served on members of the family or the victims.  Now, from what you are saying my impression is that this has in fact not been done.

MR BRINK: A Form 2, that's the prescribed form, was not sent to them because the practicalities of the matter, Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee.  It was not sent.  No letters were written to them, but I had the assurance -and I've got a copy ... (intervention)

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Not on a single one of them?  Not on a single one of them?

MR BRINK: Not a single one of them received it.  That is why the assistance of the police was called in, and, with respect, the fact that they are here, and they have been apprised of their rights, indicates they are properly before this Committee, with respect.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: That's not the point.  The Legislature could just have said that we should tell them the morning before.  In its wisdom the Legislature wants these people
	/to be
to be served with a proper form in advance so that they would have, in the quietness and peacefulness of their homes and respective places, properly consider as to what they should do.  Not to appear here in the ... (intervention)

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, these people were notified by the police on the 3rd of October of this year, not just this morning or yesterday.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Brink, may I just make inquiries?  Why was Form 2 not served on the applicants - on the victims and their relatives by the police when the police made contact with them on the 3rd of October?

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, possibly that should have been done, but I am satisfied that the police who were involved, that's Superintendent Marion who was involved and knew these people, gave them notice.  In fact he gave them what he calls warning notices, although they're not obliged to be present, but they were given warning notices as if this were a criminal - some sort of criminal proceeding, which it's not.  But I am satisfied that each and every one of these people here were notified well in time, and they have now been apprised of their rights, they understand their rights, they understand what they ... (incomplete)

SISI KHAMPEPE: On the 3rd of October were they notified that they had a right to legal representation it they wanted to come forward today to oppose the application by Mr Mitchell?

MR BRINK: I have indicated that my duty in this Committee is to assist them and lead their evidence.  These people appear to me to be extremely impecunious.  I
	/very much
very much doubt that they would be able to afford legal representation.  But secondly it was put to them by my interpreter, who is one of the briefers, that I am here to look after their interests.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink, in order to avoid any view that might be formed amongst people that the requirements of the Act are adequately complied by merely informing them by word of mouth - I understand that attempts were made to inform them, but it is quite clear that the form which they are required to receive was not served on them.  You tell us that they are here.  I would like to adjourn these proceedings for a short while for you, through the assistance of an interpreter, to make absolutely sure that none of those who are here object to these proceedings carrying on, that they are satisfied - although the requisite notice was not served on them they are satisfied that they have been adequately notified and that they would like these proceedings to carry on.  Mr Brink, a very short adjournment of about 10 minutes ought to resolve that matter.

MR BRINK: May I just say, Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, as you know the Form 2 that we have in Cape Town is in the English language.  I haven't seen one in Afrikaans.  I certainly haven't seen one in the Zulu language, so, with respect, to serve a Form 2 notice in the English language on people who not qualified to speak English, seems to me, with great respect, carrying the literal requirements of the Act to a degree of futility.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, had that been done at least the requirement of the Act may have been met.  That was not done.  I am going to adjourn now for a very short while to 	/get a
get a clear understanding from those who are here that, despite short notice and inadequate notice, they have no objection to these proceedings carrying on.   And you will call us in ... (inaudible) ... for 10 minutes.
PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED

MR BRINK: Next of kin and victims have been discussing  matters together.  I am given to understand that they want - or some of them want their own legal representation.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of them are involved?

MR BRINK: I beg your pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: How many of them are involved that seek legal representation?

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, I wonder if you could ask those to stand up, because it was very confused there.

INTERPRETER: We are referring this to the families that were affected by this.  We'll want to know if you do want any legal representation to oppose this application of Mr Brian Mitchell.  If this is so we will kindly ask those who need legal representations to stand up raise their hands.  Relatives and those also who were directly affected by this would you please do so.  Would you perhaps stand up so we may see you, those who need legal representation.  We'll like to count you so we get the exact number.  Someone will come down to count you.  (Pause)