Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: His name was Vips.

MR MADASA: Did he shoot at you?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, he was shooting towards our direction, but no one got shot as he was also running.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: We captured the other three.

MR MADASA: Do you know them?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No, I don't know them.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: When we searched them, we discovered a pistol from one of them.  That I handed over to the Committee, the pistol as Shuga was also part of the Committee member, SDU Committee.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Mnyala said we should go with them to 6, he will follow.

MR MADASA: Did you do so?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, we went with them.  He said he will follow us later.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Indeed, we went with them to 6.

MR MADASA: Where is 6?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is Muleleki Extension 2.

MR MADASA: Who took them to the shack?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Shuga went with them to the shack.

MR MADASA: Which shack, the one that was next to Bulelwa's body?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The first shack that was closer to where Bulelwa's corpse was laying.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I left after that and I went to my house, since I did not sleep at night.  Just between Block D and Block E, there is an open veld there at E.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I met the mother of one of the late or the deceased.

MR MADASA: Do you know her, her names?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I don't know the name, all I know it is Pinky's mother.  She asked me as to where her child was.  She mentioned the name, I said I don't know the name, I don't know exactly.  I don't remember the name she mentioned, but she did mention a name to me.

MR MOTATA: What is the name, you said you met somebody's mother - Pinky?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Pinky's mother.

MR MOTATA: Who is Pinky

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Pinky is her daughter.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: She had to explain and describe the clothes that the girl was wearing, or the child was wearing.

MR MADASA: Yes.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: After she described the child, I said the child is there in the shack.  And I also told her that people are still there.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: And I left her and went on ahead to my house to sleep.

MR MADASA: Did you participate further in anything?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No.

MR MOTATA: You remained in hour house?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I slept in my house.  I woke up in the afternoon.

MR MADASA: Do you know anything about the killings?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I heard about that when I met the other comrades.

MR MADASA: But you were not there?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wasn't there.

MR MADASA: Why did you participate in rounding up those boys?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I was a SDU member and we were protecting the community or guarding the community.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought you said you had been tired of remaining near the corpse?  I thought you had said you were tired of guarding the corpse?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.   When I left with Sonti I was beginning to feel dizzy and sleepy because I hadn't slept.

CHAIRPERSON: You went to capture those boys because you were tired?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I was tired of just sitting, because as I was sitting, I was falling asleep, so I had to do some action.

MR MADASA: Why did you join Sonti and others to collect more people?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: As I have already explained, I said that I was sitting down, I was falling asleep as a result of sitting down.  Now, I felt I had to do something to get involved in some kind of action.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: My question is were you required to join them, did you see that as part of your work?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

MR MOTATA: No one ordered you to join  Shuga and so on?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No one.

MR MOTATA: Were you ordered to guard Bulelwa's body?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wasn't ordered.

MR MOTATA: Did you respond to the SDU call?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The whistle call, do you mean?

MR MOTATA: Dit you respond to the whistle?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, I did.

MR MOTATA: Which was calling SDU members to go and ...

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, I responded to the whistle call.

MR MOTATA: Was guarding Bulelwa's body, part of your duty in the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

MR MOTATA: Was the capturing of these boys with Sonti, part of that?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, it was part of the defence.

MR MOTATA: The capturing of these boys, how was that going to protect the community?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Capturing those boys will be protecting the community in this way - these boys had killed members of the community of Muleleki Extension 2.

MR MADASA: Who were those members?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: It was Bulelwa and Blanko.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Another point of fact was about the infiltration of the third force, because they called themselves ANC Youth League but in actions, they were actually not ANC Youth League.

MR MOTATA: Are you saying that they called themselves members of the ANC Youth League, but their conduct was inconsistent with members of the ANC Youth League?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, that is true.

MR MADASA: What else?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: And the weapons that they had in their possession, were weapons that were being used by the Police.

MR MADASA: What did that indicate the fact that the weapons were similar to the Police's?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That indicated some collaboration of some kind between them and the third force.

MR MOTATA: Are you suggesting that because they carried firearms similar to those carried by the Police, therefore they were working hand in hand with the Police?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is what I am saying.

MR MOTATA: Do you know how they got - did you personally see anyone of them carrying a weapon similar to the one used by the Police?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I do hope that in my statement that is clear, that when we searched them, the other three, we realised the pistol.

MR MADASA: What kind of a pistol was this?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: It was a 9, the one that Police use.

MR MADASA: It was a 9?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

MR MADASA: 9 what?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: A short 9.

MR MOTATA: Did you ask him how he got hold of that short 9?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No, I did not.

MR MOTATA: Could he not have stolen it from the Police?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wouldn't know that far.

MR MADASA: Do you have any other evidence that the weapons they had, were similar to those of the Police, besides this 9 mm?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No, I don't have any other evidence to that effect, except for what I have already told you.

MR MADASA: Did you hear from your comrades in the SDU about them having firearms similar to those of the Police?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I had heard from comrade Sonti when they were going to kill the Majosi.

MR MADASA: What did he tell you?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: He said he arrived to him with Majosi's cousin, passing.

MR MADASA: What did he say about firearms?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: He said they had R1's.

CHAIRPERSON: These persons, from your information, had been carrying these firearms which were used by the Police even before Bulelwa and Blanko were killed?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And prior to Blanko and Bulelwa being killed, they had already demonstrated conduct which you believe was inconsistent with the members of the ANC Youth League?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I don't quite understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Before Blanko and Bulelwa were killed, you already have seen that their conduct was not consistent, or was not the way the ANC Youth League members carried themselves.  They were not killed prior to the death of Bulelwa and Blanko?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: There is one, the one that made them to disassociate themselves with us because we tried to stop them from their conduct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the reason why they were not killed before?