Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

MR STANDER: What happened to you when you were taken out by Mr Motsamai, the three of you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were shown a photo album.  In that album there were people, we were asked as to whether we know those people.  We denied that we do not know those people.  Then he started assaulting us.

MR STANDER: What did he do when he assaulted you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He was slapping us when you deny that you know a certain person on the album.  If he asks you that do you know this person, you say no, he slap you on the face.

ADV DE JAGER: The "him" that you are referring to, the one who slapped you, is it Mr Motsamai or another person?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is correct.

MR STANDER: What happened after this?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken out of that room and were taken back to the kitchen.

MR STANDER: Were you assaulted again on that specific day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: When a photo of me was taken I was assaulted, because I could not face upright.

MR STANDER: Who was the person who assaulted you then?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I do not remember him.  We were tired of the road.

MR STANDER: Where were you taken that evening?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken to Glen.

MR STANDER: Were you taken back to Fountain Street Security Police branch after that?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: The next day we were taken (end of tape 1B) back.

MR STANDER: Were you assaulted on the second day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, we were told to give our statement.

MR STANDER: Was Mr Motsamai involved in the assaults on the second day again?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He was not present on that day.

MR STANDER: Were you recalled to give evidence or testify at a later stage?  Before court when there were members of your group who were charged?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Firstly, we were taken to court.  When we arrived there we were put in a cell.  When they read those statements we said to them those statements are not complete, because, then they took us back again.

MR STANDER: And were you then released from detention after the case had been withdrawn in the local Magistrates Court?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, we were released.

MR STANDER: Of which political organisation were you a member at that stage?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I was a member of Manung Youth Congress.

MR STANDER: I have no further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STANDER

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: (...Indistinct).

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is Mr Mamome.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I am terribly sorry, I did not hear your question, Mr Commissioner, could you just repeat it please?

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: I asked her who assaulted her on the second day.
	How did he assault you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He was using a cable, it seems it was a kettle cord.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Thank you.

ADV DE JAGER: Did he hit you with that or what did he do with the cord?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, he was beating us with that kettle cord.  We were, it was the three of us.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: (...Indistinct) were the three.  You, it was not clear to me, at some point mention was made of a brother or something.

CHAIRPERSON: Just her brother.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Don Letsigo, is it your brother?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: She is a girl.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Give me the names, it is yourself and whom?
It was yourself and whom, on the first occasion when the three of you were taken in the kitchen?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Don, Mildred and Daureen.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Don, Mildred is yourself, of course, and then ... (intervention).

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Daureen.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: ... Daureen.  Are you related to her, is that the sister?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: And Don, are you related to Don?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: She comes after me.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Oh, the three of you are sisters.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Perhaps, if you would allow me just to try to clarify this.  Mathapelo, is that either Don or Daureen?  Can you just tell us please?  Mathapelo Lekitlane, who is that?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Mathapelo is Daureen.

MR VISSER: I see.  Well, it appears, Mr Chairman, perhaps I should ask the witness.
	Who is the person that you refer to as Motsego, is that Don?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, that is Don.

MR VISSER: Is she here today?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: No, she is not here.

MR VISSER: It appears, Mr Chairman, that on the list handed in by Mr Stander there is no affidavit for this, the third sister, so it seems.

MR STANDER: That is true.  She is not one of the prejudiced persons for whom I received instructions.  That is correct.

MR VISSER: Am I, do I understand you correctly that you were assaulted, according to your evidence, by only two people?  By Mr Motsamai on the first day, by Mr Mamome on the second occasion, on the second day?  Have I got it right?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Do you remember that you made an affidavit to your attorney, Mr Stander, - page seven, Mr Chairman, of the bundle - do you remember that?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, I do.

MR VISSER: And is that what you said in your affidavit as well, that you were assaulted by two persons, Mr Motsamai and Mr Mamome?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Those are the people who have assaulted me, but or people who assaulted me were five, (...indistinct) Mr Magesa was just insulting us, Ngo wanted me to be his informer, but I did not agree, Molefe was together with Mr Mamome all the time or in many times.

MR VISSER: Yes.  I am sorry, I am not certain that I follow you.  You have told us that Mr Magesa was insulting you.  Is that correct?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, he was insulting us.

MR VISSER: So, he was not torturing or assaulting you, he was insulting you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Well, we know about Constable Motsamai.  Then we have Ngo and you say that all he wanted to do was to have as his informer?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, that is so.

MR VISSER: (...Indistinct) to you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: No, Sir.

MR VISSER: Now, the person that you referred to as Mr Molefe...

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I said in many instances he would be, always be with Mr Mamome, but did not take part in assault.

MR VISSER: I am sorry, what was the last part of your sentence, but he?

CHAIRPERSON: Did not take part in the assault.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	I want to suggest to you, Madam, that the person that you refer to as Mr Molefe is probably or maybe a reference to Mr Mmelesi who is, which is spelt, as I have it, Mr Chairman as M M L E S I, M M L E S I.  I am told it is M M E L E S I, I beg your pardon and I want to put to you that I consulted with Mr Mmelesi, it is Sergeant Mmelesi, and, well, perhaps, if he is in the room can he just stand up - oh, he is outside - and he informs me that, in face, he interrogated two of the three sisters that were there and, obviously, you were one of them.  
	Now, do you see the difference here, first of all?  He says he did not interrogate all three the sisters, he says he interrogated two of the three sisters.  Would that be correct?  Two of three sisters.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: May you please repeat your question?