Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-07

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, I want to know whether the gentleman is going to testify.

VUKELE MABOLE: I was the one who was together with Tembekile.

REV XUNDU: What is your name?

VUKELE MABOLE: I am Vukele Mabole.

REV XUNDU: Kuku Gladys May, please stand up.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

VUKELE MABOLE: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Mr Chairperson, they have been properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you, Mrs May and Mr Mabole.  We will hand over to June Crichton to lead you with questions.  We will start with Mrs May.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs May, is my voice clear to you?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: Right.  Are you comfortable there now?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Yes, I am comfortable.

JUNE CRICHTON: Right.  Mrs May, you are here to speak about Simphiwe and his death.  Could you, before you start, just explain to me what your relationship to Simphiwe was.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: He was my son.

JUNE CRICHTON: Alright and with you now is Vukele who was
with your son on the day that he died.  That is correct.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: Before we start I want to get the dates correct of the day that this happened, the day of the demonstration when he was shot in Lingelethu location.  Can you tell me what date that was.  I have two different dates here.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I am not sure about the date.

JUNE CRICHTON: Alright.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I cannot remember clearly.

JUNE CRICHTON: That is alright, we will sort that out.  What was the situation in Adelaide at that time, at the end of 1980, in 1989, what was going on?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: There was toyi-toyi all over.

JUNE CRICHTON: And on this particular day your son and Vukele were on their way back from a toy-toy.  Would you like to tell us what happened or would you like to pass the microphone to Vukele to talk about what happened?  What would you like to do?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: We were together at work and we came back at five, the two of us.  He then joined Vukele.  Vukele will be the one who will tell you about what happened in the township.  I am going to tell you about what happened at the police.

JUNE CRICHTON: Alright, then continue with what you want to say.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Can you please repeat your question.

JUNE CRICHTON: When you say you want to tell me about the police, do you mean you want to tell me about afterwards?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I was working together with my child.  We went to work, on this day the police passed us.  They asked me for supper, they were drunk, I gave them bread, it was after
five.  We met them when we were coming from work.  Vukele went to his room and took money.  Simphiwe went to his room and took money together with Vukele to buy a candle.  At about eight when I heard gunshots, police vans came to take me to hospital where he was shot.  The police took me to the charge office.  They told me that my child was shot.  They wanted me to go to hospital.  I told them I am not going to go there.  The person who shot him was there, but they did not tell me.  I asked them who shot my son.  I was told when we were coming back from the hospital by a woman who was together with me.  We went home.  Vukele will be the one who will tell you what happened.

JUNE CRICHTON: I want you to tell me, though, who you were told shot your son.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: The police told me when I was in the charge office.  There were white policemen and black policemen there.

JUNE CRICHTON: Was there not one specific policeman that you were told that actually shot your son?  According to the statement that I have in front of me this was a relative.

KUKU GLADYS MAY: His name is Mfunquli Nomala.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is he a relative of your family?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: No, he is not a relative, but our clan name is the same.  He is a family of my son.

JUNE CRICHTON: Before I hand over to Vukele, is there anything more that you want to tell us about the court case and the funeral?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: The funeral was almost disrupted.  The police were chasing people, they were dispersing teargas and they were beating people.  The people were given tickets to attend the funeral.  I was inside the house and I heard that there was
conflict outside.  I went out to the Station Commander, I spoke Afrikaans with him telling him that this was not a concert.  They shot my son, they are now giving out tickets.  I told them that I want my family to be, to attend the funeral.  I told them not to give people tickets so that everyone can attend the funeral.  After the funeral I went to, I was submitted a statement.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs May, was that a normal practice, to give out tickets for a funeral?  Had you heard of it happening to anybody else in Adelaide?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: It was the first time I saw this.

JUNE CRICHTON: The case went to court and I understand you were not in the court.  What was the outcome of the case?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: The case was heard here.  We were given a date.  We all went to the police station on that particular day.  We were supposed to be taken by a police van.  Botha told me that a police van is not a taxi, I am supposed to go and take a taxi.  I went to the township to look for a taxi, I came here in Grahamstown.  The case proceeded, I was not asked anything.  They just took out pictures, the second day they took out the pictures again and the case proceeded.  On the third day they told me to leave.  They told me to go back home.

JUNE CRICHTON: Did you have an Attorney?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Yes, there was an Attorney, but I have forgotten his name.

JUNE CRICHTON: Did you have any conversation with him after the court case?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I did not talk, I did not talk in court, but I went to the Attorney to talk to him and he was there representing me.

JUNE CRICHTON: And he did not make any civil claim for you?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I do not know because I did not hear anything up until today.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is there anything else you wish to say before Vukele speaks, anything that you particularly want the Commission to look at for you or do for you?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: I would like the Commission to help me, but I do not know what to say.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs May, I feel very saddened by the fact that you are yet another mother who has had to experience something like this and, perhaps, it will be helpful now for us to hear what Vukele, if Vukele has got anything further to add to what you have said.  Are you happy about that?

KUKU GLADYS MAY: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Mabole, would you care to fill in any of the details that Mrs May has left out.  Could you, perhaps, just tell us exactly what happened on that day.