Human Rights Violation Hearings — Leandra — 1997-06-03

TARZANI S MOKWENA: According to the information that I got they said that the policemen came, they blocked the doorway with their Hippo and they got inside the bar.  When they got inside the bar they instructed some other children to get inside the Hippo and they started shooting the children.  The other children who had run away were accosted by the policemen who were on top of the Caspar and some shot the children whilst they were inside the bar.

MR MALAN: Do you have any of the names or could you give us any of the names of some of the other children that died on that day?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: The one I remember was Rossie, Thomas.  I do not remember the other ones, but Aubrey was amongst them.  I think there were about four if I am not mistaken who were  shot on that particular day.

MR MALAN: Reverend Mokwena, thank you very much.  We have not yet really had an opportunity to investigate the circumstances surrounding the story of Aubrey.  As you know the statement was only recently taken, that is towards the end of last year, but we will see what further information we can get and eventually you will be hearing from us through our findings and report and we will keep you informed.  Thank you for telling your story.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Wynand.  Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Mr Mokwena, in your statement you have pointed out that the children broke into the bar lounge.  What did they want in the bar lounge?  You said they were toy-toying outside and what were they doing inside the bar lounge?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: I do not know.  I have no truth about that matter and I cannot comment on that aspect, because they were climbing on top of the tank and that is where Aubrey was shot, on top of the tank.

MS SEROKE: And you said at that time when the children saw the police they ran away.  You said the other police got into the bar lounge and hid themselves in there.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: As the policemen were hiding themselves in there when the children came back not realising that the policemen were inside the bar lounge that is when they were shot.

MS SEROKE: You said when you went to look for Aubrey they asked you about the certificate.  What certificate was that?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: They were referring to the birth certificate.  They said I should fetch the birth certificate and bring it with and I got it from home then I brought it back.  That is when I was taken to Evanda, Evanda Mortuary.  That is where I positively identified him.

MS SEROKE: Was he attending school at that time?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, he was.  He was in standard five at that time.

MS SEROKE: We thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Tom Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Mokwena, we talk about four other children who were shot.  Are we saying they were shot dead or they were just wounded by bullet shots?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: They all died.

THOMAS MANTHATA: They all died and have their families made statements, do you know?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, they submitted statements and they are present at the moment.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay, thank you.  When the children were, as you say they were fighting to have schools and houses, to whom did they direct their complaints?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: They were boycotting and I would not pinpoint a particular person that they were fighting with.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, but I mean as parents when children said they want houses, they want schools, there must be a specific office or person that they should be directing their complaints to.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: It means they were fighting with the councillors or the then councillors.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What about the parents being left without houses, being left with children without schools, what did the parents say on those?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: What I could say is that the parents were at home.  They were never involved in these, but it is the children or the youth who were actively involved.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, I want to know how did the children know that they have no homes when the parents themselves seem to be contented and not worried about having homes or not?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: What I can say is they were concerned, but they did not know how to address the problem.  It is the youth that took the initiative to boycott.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I see.  For these four children who died was there ever a post mortem conducted or an inquest into the cause of their deaths?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: There was no formal autopsy that was done that I know of, but I know that they died of gunshot wounds.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And there was never a court case to say who killed the people, the circumstances under which they were killed?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: No, nothing was done, absolutely nothing.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But if I understand you well the community could have been structured to have an organisation that could have followed this whole issue up, because I do know whether this is the same.  Was there no lawyer that was used by community of Evanda at the time?  ... in terms of.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: No, there is nothing of that sort that was done, but there are some people who came and they were investigating as to how the children got injured.  They took statements, but I have no personal knowledge thereof.   It is what I heard happened.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And nobody ever went to the police station to lay a complaint that the police were in the township, children were killed, we want to know, okay, just a follow-up of that sort of thing.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: There is a person who went to the police especially after the funeral and during the time of the night vigil, is Mr Mayisa.  Mr Mayisa is the one who went to even release some of the children who were held in custody and the police continued with their assaults especially during the night vigil. Then Mr Mayisa went to fetch the ones who were in custody, but he has since died.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who is Mr Mayisa?  Who was he?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: He was a ...

THOMAS MANTHATA: Is that the Chief Mayisa?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is Chief Mayisa.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay, thanks.  Okay.  No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mokwena if I could just ask two questions.  This, the date that we have been given for this incident was 1986.  Was this in any way a tenth anniversary of what had happened in Soweto ten years before?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: It could be like that.  I am not sure.

CHAIRPERSON: And then a final question.  In your statement you put down some actual suggestions both in terms of a request for a tombstone for your son and secondly for a suggestion for building youth centres.  Would you like to say a little bit more about that?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, that is true.  I would like the Government to compensate me with regard to my son's death, because he died during the struggle.  So I regard him as a victim of human rights violations.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you explain a little bit more about the suggestion for youth centres.

TARZANI S MOKWENA: We would like to be compensation about, with our, with regard to the death of our children.  I lost money and I am not working, I am not employed and I spent a lot of money burying him and we never got a reason as to why they were killed.  We expect the Government to do something about it.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you think that a fitting memorial would also be for some youth centres to be built within the community?

TARZANI S MOKWENA: Yes, I feel that we can be satisfied if that could happen or if it could be done, because we believe that we are also victims, because they died during the struggle and we popped out our monies in order to bury them.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Mokwena, I would just like to, sorry, Tom.