Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

MR LAX: Now, can you tell us, as far as you're aware, which of your family members and which of the people who were living at your home at that time in separate accommodations, that were part of your - let's say of your family dwelling?

WITNESS:   Thusini was there living.

MR LAX: Which are the people which actually died in that event, if you could assist us there?

WITNESS:   Mrs Ndwelane and Ndwelane.

MR LAX: Your husband also died.

WITNESS:   Yes, my husband also died, and my three daughters, and my grandchild did not die, was injured, though critically, and survived.  And my other - and another child who attended survived, but the mother died.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... Khumalo family who survived as well, some people of that family.

WITNESS:   Ma Khumalo did not lose any relatives or members of her family.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... Nduli - Ntuli?

WITNESS:   Nduli, N-D, Nduli.

MR LAX: His daughter was shot in that incident, is that right?

WITNESS:   No, Nduli is the one who died, and Jabu Nduli - the child survived.  Jabu Nduli died, but the child survived.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... as far as you know how many people actually died in that incident?

WITNESS:   There were 13, because in one of the shacks there were six.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... in that incident.

WITNESS:   Thusini's child was brutally injured, although I did not understand what happened to her, and my grandchild also was severely injured, and Nduli's child got injured on the arm.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... in evidence to say that the house was attacked by people trained by the army, and there's been more than enough evidence.  What can you tell us as far as you know of that?  Can you tell us anything?

WITNESS:  What I know - yes, I do have things to say to you.

MR LAX: Then you can.

WITNESS:   After that I left my house.  I went to Folweni for two weeks, and the person I was with said I should leave because they were not safe because of my presence.  I went to Umlazi, and I was there for a few months, and I went to Izingolweni.  That's where I built  my house.  You know I don't think my family is safe enough there because people are scared of associating with us, and to be seen as people who are close to us.  I took Mbusi to some other place in Impendle, and also rented a house for - I came back to Durban, and I was looking for -he said he was staying at KwaMakutha in Mr Nxwensa's house, and I asked him as to how safe the place was.  He said the place was not safe, but he was also scared to go to school because the schools could not accept him because of his past.  I was at my wits end, and I left him there to attend school.  Then in 1988, as well as in 1989, he was staying there.  Then in 1989 he sent a message that I should come to him because he wanted to see me.  I went there to see him, and I also sent a message that I had arrived.  He told me that it is now 1989 and he had passed his matric, and he promised me that he was going to build me a house, because all this that took place was because of him.  He admitted that he knew about political organisations, and he was sorry that I did not know anything, but I ended up being a victim.  He further told me that he had had an altercation with Mrs Mtshali, and I asked him as to what problem there was.  He told me to listen carefully.  He related to me that he got involved with Mrs Mtshali's daughter in 1985.  This shocked me because I had not seen anything amiss.  After the family had separated I went away.  Then when I came back I discovered that the lady I was involved with had now been involved with another person.  I told him that that was his own problem.  And he further told me that this woman was involved with a KwaZulu policeman, and he did not want the relationship to end between him and his girlfriend.  And I realised that his life was not safe now after he was the policeman's rival, and I left him at that place.  I think it was in October or November during the year 1989 when I left.  I went away.  Then towards December I went back and I tried to look for my son.  We had a conversation and he told me that he had had an altercation with the policeman.  They were walking with the girlfriend, and at that time they came across the policeman, who said they suited each other.  And he abused him verbally, and he ran towards a certain Mr Mtshali's place.  Victor went to where he was staying.  That was at No 23.  Then immediately thereafter he said the girlfriend came back to tell him that he was going to be evicted at that place if he continued with the relationship.  Then Victor had to give the relationship up so that he could have a place to stay.  And at that particular time he was not working.  It was towards festive season, and in January, immediately after the new year, it was on a Sunday, I woke up and went to our church service.  I  received a telephone call that Victor had been

MR LAX: shot.  He did not identify himself or say who he was, but he told me that Victor had been shot the previous day.  I did not have money at that time because nobody was working.  Victor was the only one who was at least old.  I got a collection from the church so that I could go to investigate as to what was taking place.  Then on a Monday morning I received another telephone call, and it was Mrs Msani from Lamontville, who said - I did not speak personally over the phone, but the message that I got was that I should go to Mrs Msani before I proceeded to KwaMakutha.  And I did exactly that, I went to Mrs Msani.  When I got to Mrs Msani she told me that she had also received a call that she should tell me.  I also told her that I received the same phone call from an unidentified or anonymous caller.  They decided that they were going to take me to the scene, but just before we went Mrs Mtshali phoned, an Mrs Mtshali said I am sitting there and she is waiting for me at her place.  I told her that whoever was calling did not say who he or she was, and I could not have known that it was Mrs Mtshali.  And I further told her that the area in which she was was very dangerous, and I could not come all by myself, and she put down the phone on me.  And Mrs Msani took me with at Nxwensa.  We made preparations for the funeral, and I stayed in that house.  On the day of the funeral, just when we were at Shabalala's place, we saw seven vans, as well as police who were in the street.  We could not go past.  The funeral procession could not go past, we had to stand and wait.  They told us to get off the buses and walk on our feet.  Linda Zama got out of the buses and went to

MR LAX: /Mr Shabalala's

MR LAX: Mr Shabalala's place to phone the soldiers, and the soldiers came to accompany us to proceed to the cemetery.  All that I know about Victor was that he was a rival to the policeman.  Besides that I know nothing else besides that they had planned to have a meeting or a peace meeting.  Thereafter I did not see him, all I saw were wounds on his chest, indicating that he had been shot.  And thereafter I could not sell my house or stay in my house because went in there to stay.  When I sell the house whoever comes to view the house cannot buy it because there are people occupying the house.

MR LAX: What we've been able to gather from your statement previously was that a meeting had - this is in relation to Victor's death.  A meeting had been arranged and called by the IFP for a peace meeting between the different groups in that area.  You confirm that?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: And then the people came together for that meeting, and it was at that meeting that Victor was shot.  Is that right?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: Do you know whether any inquest or court case has been held in relation to Victor's death?

WITNESS:   There was nothing.

MR LAX: Do you know whether there were any police people present at that meeting where Victor was shot?