Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-11

MRS PHASIWE: It was in 1991 on the 24th of September.  Pumsele was shot.  He had been with his friend Paul Poswa.  I was at work at the time.  I would sleep at work.  On the Saturday, apparently they were shot by police.  My neighbour told me that my child was shot.  I was very upset because they told me on the way home that my child had been shot.  The man that stayed at my house was not there.  Then my neighbours came to talk about this.
 They told me that he was with his friend.  I asked where he was.  They said the police had taken him.  I then went to the hospital with the man I stayed with.  We got here in Radon.  We asked the guards if we could go in.  They said we should wait for visitors hours.  We then got in during the visitors hours.  We asked the clerks for Pumsele.  We said he had been shot at Carletonville and had been brought to the hospital by the police with his friend.  We were then referred to Ward 18 where shot people were.  We then saw Paul Poswa, his friend.  Pumsele was not there.  We asked him where Pumsele was.  He said Pumsele was in hospital somewhere, but he does not know exactly where because they parted ways when they got into the hospital.   We then asked the nurses.  The nurses said we must go to the ICU.  We asked the nurses at the ICU and he was there.  They said one of us must go, one at a time.  When we got there we found him lying there.  He could not speak.  The nurses asked what the children had done.  I said I do not know, I just came from work.  I just heard that he was at the hospital, he had been shot.  I had been looking for him.  
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They then asked if he had been ill previously.  I said he suffered from epileptic fits.  I then asked for the numbers at the ICU so that I could phone.  I then asked who signed my son in.  They said it was the police.  They then gave me the phone number.  I requested someone to phone my employers so that they could be informed about my son.  I was not going to be able to go to work for a few days.  
 When I got to the township.  I just want to revert back.  When I found Pumsele at the ICU I went to Ward 18 to Paul Poswa who had been able to talk.  I asked why they had been shot.  I was together with my boyfriend, my live-in boyfriend.  Paul Poswa then said they had been shot by the police.  They had been sent to the shop to buy painkillers.  When they were crossing 12 50, the police shot at them.  That is why they were in hospital.  I left food with Paul Poswa because my child could not eat.
 We went back to the township.  Paul Poswa's sister came to me apologising, saying that it is because she sent them to the shop that they were shot.  She said she is the one who asked the police to come to the hospital.  I said I do not blame you because even if I had been home, he could have been shot.  
 I said that on the Monday we should go to the ANC offices.  We went to the offices to give a statement about our children.  Even there I told them that I had not been home at the time.  
 At the hospital, Paul Poswa showed me Oupa Kleinboy.  He told me that they were all together in the police van.  He said that they were not all shot, but they had been in the van together.  
 We then went to the ANC offices.  It was Oupa 
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Kleinboy's mother and myself.  We gave a statement at the ANC office.  
 On the Tuesday I went to the hospital together with some people from the Youth group.  Pumsele was still in the same condition.  He was trying to speak, but could not.  He had a tube on his face.  He asked me to remove it, but the nurses said I should not.  I then asked if my child would live.  They said he is in a critical condition.  I then pulled the tube, I tried to pull the tube, but the nurses refused.  I wanted to hear what he wanted to say.  
 I went back to Paul Poswa.  Paul Poswa said he had been shot in his leg.  I went to work.  The children that had gone to visit with me went back to the township.  I told my employers that I had gone to the hospital and that my child had not improved.
 On the weekend my employers took me to the hospital.  They would also phone the hospital to find out about my child.  His condition improved.  When I went to visit him again his condition had not improved that much.  He stayed in ICU for a month.  Me employers asked me if my child would be able to walk.  I said I do not know.  When I asked the nurses if I could see the X-rays, the nurses refused.  My son asked me if I could look at the X-rays.  I said that they are refusing and there nothing I could do.  
 My child then was taken to Ward 18 from ICU.  When he got there, there were police that was guarding them.  Each and every time I went there was no doctor.  Sometimes it improved, sometimes it deteriorated.  He then asked me if I had gone to the ANC offices.  I told him we had gone.  He told me that the police would take them somewhere that they do not know.  The police asked me if Pumsele was an ANC 
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member and I said yes, he is.  I said that I do not care about the house at the time.  I was talking to Pumsele.  
 Paul Poswa was released first from the hospital.  Pumsele was left behind.  He showed me that he had been shot in the stomach and the chest.  His vertebral column was terribly effected.  He showed me that his genitals were no longer there.  He asked me when they were removed.  I said I do not know, nobody told me anything.  When I saw that my child's condition was really bad I went to court and my sons name was not on the list that was there for those that were going to talk.  
 I asked my employers to get me a lawyer.  I doubted that he would live until January.  That is why I needed a lawyer immediately.  My employers got me Roland as a lawyer.  I went with my employer to Roland to give a statement.  I told them that I was not there when it happened.  He asked for Paul's sister and I brought here there.  
 I then asked what is going to happen to my child because the court case starts on the sixth of January.  The court case could not go on without my child, I said.  Paul Poswa and Kleinboy were released from the hospital.  When we went to court Roland gave my case to Oosthuizen from around.  Oosthuizen took over.  I told him that my child is not here and his name is not even listed.  He said I must not worry.  On his receipt he had written Paul Poswa.  He said he wanted R550.00.  We paid him R350.00.  
 On the 30th of April, the case was transferred to the Regional Court here in Carletonville.  I was one of the people.  My child's name was not on the list.  They then said that they do not listen to any cases for children who are under the age of 16.  During the case we were told to go KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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 outside.  Oosthuizen said he could not go on with the case because he was too scared that he would be killed by the police.  He told us that we must get another lawyer if we want to be paid because we had won the case.  I then asked about my child.  I said I had paid him.  I said I had paid him for my child's case, but nothing had been done about it.  He then said that when my child is released from hospital, his case would be taken on.  
 I was told that too much time had elapsed for the case when I tried to pursue it.  We sent to Mr Mtoya who was our lawyer in Klerksdorp.  I sent my boyfriend to go because I was at work.  When he got there, it was the 19th May.  On the 19th of May 1992, is the date that lawyer Mtoya would be available.  My boyfriend then presented his case.  We went for two weeks.  Two weeks elapsed when Mr Mtoya handled the case.  After that we were told that he had given up on the case as well.  
 I continued visiting Pumsele at hospital.  Pumsele then said the social workers had come to see me.  Now they wanted to see me as the mother.  I then wanted to be clear as what would happen with the social workers.  He just said that, no, I have prepared everything for you.  He said that he realised his condition is not going to improve at all.  I went to Obros to Denzel.  I told him about what my son had said about the social workers.  I told him that I was called to the social workers.  I wanted to know if they were not working for the Government of the day because if they were I could not go.  I could not receive the money until it was clear why my child was shot because if he was guilty of something then he should go to jail.  
 I went to the social workers in Carletonville.  They 
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said that they are not the ones who had gone to Pumsele.  Perhaps the social workers from the hospital.  I did not pursue this.
 On the 15th of June in 1992 Pumsele passed away.  They did not tell us that my son had passed away.  I had stopped working and I got a bit of money.  In July we found out that Pumsele had passed away.  He was not at the mortuary at the hospital.  Dan was informed that the child had passed away.  When we found out that Pumsele had passed away we went to Dan as well to tell them that on the 15th Pumsele had passed away.  Dan then said he assumed that we had been told that the child had passed away.  
 We were asked to go to Roodepoort at the police station where some corpses were.  We informed the Comrades that Pumsele had passed away and that we had no money to bury him.  Dan made a donation.  We first went to Roodepoort to try and find him and he was there.  After that he was buried.