Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-10-27

MR PRIOR: The indication is possibly half past ten, but more probably quarter to eleven.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee to consider the applications for amnesty by Mr Zola Mabala, Luyanda Gqomfa and Vuyisile Madasi.
	The Committee comprises of myself, Judge Wilson on my right and Adv Sandi on my left.  Will counsel who appear in this matter, please place themselves on record.

NORMAN ARENDSE: May it please the Committee, Mr Chairman, I appear for the applicants together with my colleague Ms Nona Goza.

MS QUNTA: If it pleases the Committee.  My name is Christine Qunta.  I appear for Mr Dumisa Ntsebeza and I have with me Ms Giba, I have already indicated I will have to be excused for a short while and she will be in my place.

MR MBANDAZAYO: As the Committee pleases.  Mr Chairman, my  name is Lungelo Mbandazayo, I appear for Bulelani Xuma, who is implicated in this matter.

MR PRIOR: May it please the Committee Mr Chairman, I am the evidence leader, Patrick Prior and may I inform the Committee that all the relevant notices were served.  The victims are all present, bar a Mr Devlon.   I understand that he may be attending later on in the day, but he has not contacted us since I made contact with him, and all the victims have requested representation by myself on the Committee, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, could I just place on record again our apologies for the late start.  We had to appear in the High Court in connection with the St James matter in respect of which the Committee hadn't yet handed down a decision, and that is the reason for that.
	Otherwise Mr Chairman, I think there is an aspect which Ms Qunta would like to place on record.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Qunta?

MS QUNTA: Mr Chairman, I just wish to place on record that I am representing Mr Ntsebeza, who has been implicated in a statement by a witness, not by the applicants.  We believe, my client believes that it is quite important that that witness be called so that he is able to answer to some of the allegations made in that statement of the witness.  He believes that it is important for his credibility as a Commissioner in charge of the Investigation Unit, and for the whole Commission or for the Commission as a whole, that the witness be called and his evidence be tested especially in the view of the fact that it has now become a public matter and we wish to place on record and request that the amnesty Commission does call that witness.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I am given to understand that the witness will be made available to give evidence at an appropriate stage.

MS QUNTA: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman, we do not propose to make an opening statement.  We will go straight into reading as we get in respect of the matters where we appeared, to read into the record, prepared statements.  Unfortunately these statements were only settled finally this morning and of course when we came out of court, they were only then available, but we will make copies available to the Committee and to Mr Prior and to our colleagues during the course of today Mr Chairman, if that is in order.

CHAIRPERSON: Where these not statements made available earlier?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman, the reason for that is that the last applicant, or Mr Mabala rather, was only brought to Victor Verster as late as Wednesday, this week.  We consulted with him on  Thursday and again on Saturday during the day on Saturday.  Obviously we, myself and Ms Goza then met on Sunday, settled our strategy as it were and then only decided to finalise these statements and the first opportunity we've had to in fact discuss it with them, was now this morning.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, you may proceed.

NORMAN ARENDSE: I then call the first applicant, Mr Humphrey Luyanda Gqomfa, Mr Chairman.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: (sworn states)

JUDGE WILSON: Sorry, before you start, could I ask that whoever is responsible for the installation of these television cameras, if it is possible to turn the blue light off the one facing us until such time as it comes to be used?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman, could I also ask for a Bundle that is before us, to be made available to the applicants?  Is it possible?

CHAIRPERSON: They are made available to you, are they not?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Yes, but during the course of questioning or perhaps during the course of cross-examination, I am sure there will be reference to the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, at that stage we will place one before them, if it is possible to do so.

MR PRIOR: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have an extra copy that can be placed on their desk?

MR PRIOR: I will arrange for it to be produced Mr Chairman.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Gqomfa, I would like to read back to you a written statement which we have discussed with you, but which you have not yet signed.  I will read this into the record and I would like you to indicate please, whether the contents of the statements, whether you agree with it or not.  And please indicate as I go along.

JUDGE WILSON: Can I interrupt again.  What portions of the record do you think the witness is likely to be referred to?  It seems pointless to duplicate the whole  of this record if you are going to refer to three pages or so.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Judge Wilson, we were not responsible for compiling this record as it is in front of us.  I've got some idea of which aspects I am going to, or we are going to raise with the applicants, but clearly whoever is responsible for compiling the record, should know which portions are going to be raised during the course of the hearing and I would have thought that in that case the whole record should be placed before the applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's proceed.