Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-11

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  This is a resumed hearing.  We first sat in Durban for a week where we heard evidence of incidents which occurred, not only in this area but also in the Durban area.  We then moved on to Richards Bay where we sat for two weeks and heard evidence relating to incidents which occurred in that area and we are now scheduled to sit here for the rest of this week where we will be hearing evidence relating to incidents which occurred in this area.
	I would like to just commence by again introducing the panel.  On my immediate right is Ms Khampepe who is an attorney from Johannesburg.  On my immediate left is Advocate Motata who is an advocate from Johannesburg, and on my far right is Mr Moloi, an attorney presently of Pretoria, and I am Selwyn Miller, a Judge based in Transkei.  
	I'd also at this stage just like for the legal representatives again please to place themselves on record for the benefit of the people who are attending the hearing and to mention who they are representing as well.

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  I am Angus Stewart, that is: S-T-E-W-A-R-T, of the Durban Bar, instructed by the Campus Law Clinic at the University of Natal.  I am representing three of the applicants, Dhalaxholo Lethule, Zweli Dlamini and Bhekisisa Alex Khumalo.  Immediately to my right from the Campus Law Clinic is Mr Sheldon Magadi.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, my name is John Wills, I am an attorney from Pietermaritzburg.  I am representing the 4th to 7th applicants, that is B B Ndlovu, Romeo Mbuso Mbambo, Brian Gina Mkhize and Israel Nyoni Hlongwane.

MR HEWITT: Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, my name is Hewitt.  I am an advocate and I am instructed by Mr Fagner, an attorney on my left-hand side.  We represent various persons whom we've been advised will be implicated during the evidence of the applicants, in fact there are numerous and various names which are all set out on a letter dated the 24th of March 1998, which was addressed to my instructing attorney by the Truth and Reconciliation Committee.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am Ian Ngubane, I'm representing the victims, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you gentlemen.  Sorry, Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, J M Mpshe representing the TRC Amnesty in particular.  I am here with my learned friend, Mr Nati Gladla, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe.
	As I have mentioned earlier we will be hearing evidence from the applicants, relating to incidents which took place in this area.  When we sat in Durban we heard the evidence of Mr Luthule who also testified to events which took place in this area.  We will be commencing with the evidence of other applicants which we haven't hear, relating to events which occurred in this area, and if at all possible we may hear the evidence of Mr Luthule later. 
	Mr Stewart?

MR STEWART: Thank you Chair ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just before we start, all the evidence in this hearing is translated.  To receive the translation one must be in possession of one of these little machines.
CHAIRPERSON EXPLAINS TRANSLATION EQUIPMENT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Stewart?

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  ...[intervention]

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, before Mr Stewart commences, just for record purposes, we have a total number of 199 victims who have been notified.  There may be more than those who are known to us but those that we have identified and notified are 199.

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  If I might just say on behalf of myself and Mr Wills, representing the various applicants, that the order in which we intend to lead the evidence is to begin with the evidence of the applicant, Bhekisisa Alex Khumalo and to thereafter follow with the evidence of Israel Hlongwane, thereafter Zweli Dlamini and thereafter, Mr Ndlovu.  If we might start then with Mr Khumalo.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khumalo do you have any objection to taking the oath?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Stewart?

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khumalo, are your full names Bhekisisa Alex Khumalo?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Bhekisisa Alex Khumalo.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo do you have a copy of your application with you?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do.

MR STEWART: If you need to it to clarify the incidents that I refer to, by all means you must do so.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Okay.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, in what area did you grow up?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I grew up in Pietermaritzburg.

MR STEWART: Is that in the Kezubuso area?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, that is in Kezubuso.

MR STEWART: How did you first become involved in political activities?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I started becoming involved when I went to Caprivi.

MR STEWART: Was it your original intention to become involved in political activities or do to other work?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: When I went to Caprivi I thought I was going to be trained as a policeman.

MR STEWART: How did you come to be recruited for that training?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I received information, I was told that KwaZulu police members were being recruited and I went to Mr Ntombela's house and I found a group of people there.  Mr Ntombela transported us to Ulundi to the Hlongwane Camp.  ...[intervention]

MR STEWART: Sorry Mr Khumalo, if we can just take it a little bit at a time.  That Mr Ntombela, is that Mr David Ntombela of Elandskop?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR STEWART: Okay.  You were saying you were taken to the Hlongwane Camp, take it from there.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: On arrival we found other people there.  These were engaged in physical training and were singing Inkatha songs.

MR STEWART: Where is this Hlongwane Camp?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: It is just outside Ulundi.

MR STEWART: At that stage did you still have the idea that you were to be trained as a policeman?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR STEWART: About how long were you at that camp?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: About a week.

MR STEWART: And where and how did you go from there?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: After about a week we went in a small bus to the Ulundi Airport where we took a plane.  The plane flew for about seven hours and we landed in a sort of a forest.
	On arrival there there were trucks awaiting our arrival.  They looked like SADF trucks and were driven by white people wearing army uniforms.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, at that time, did you know where that was, where that place was?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I did not know.

MR STEWART: Do you know where it was?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I know it was Caprivi.

MR STEWART: When you got to that place where you were taken to in those trucks, were there other people there already?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, when we arrived we found some people there.

MR STEWART: What was your programme on arriving there?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: On arrival there were a few people around the fire who were singing.  There was somebody carrying a gun, whom I later learnt to be Madlanduna.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, when you refer to Madlanduna, is that Mr Dhalaxholo Luthule, one of the applicants in this hearing?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STEWART: Did he describe to you his role at that camp?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: He explained that he was the political commissar, his job was to take care of us with regard to our welfare and also train us politically as well as see to it that our training was going as it should.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, what was your training at that camp?