Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-20

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, the next witness which we wish to call is Gen Steyn.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: His evidence is at page 55 to 94, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: He is available to take the oath.

CHAIRPERSON: You are handing in an exhibit?

MR VISSER: Yes, certainly Mr Chairman, I'm sorry.  That will be Exhibit G, I believe, or was the bundle.

CHAIRPERSON: H.

MR VISSER: Alright Exhibit H.

J A STEYN: (sworn states)

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Visser, Mr Chairperson, just a matter that needs to be dealt with in view of the fact that Mr Botha's going.  Apparently there is some informal arrangement being made for him to meet with the brother of the deceased Shabalala.  I'd like him to, I believe they've agreed, my client has agreed, I don't have a chance to tell him that now, but if that could take place before he leaves.

MR VISSER: Yes, Mr Chairman, I didn't want to belabour you with that but there was a request from the late Mr Shabalala's brother that he wanted to meet with Mr Botha and Mr Botha is perfectly willing to meet with him and it has been arranged, yes, Mr Chairman, and he won't leave until that happens.  The only thing is that he prefers us to be present, so we'll have to wait until 1 o'clock when we adjourn, hopefully, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You mustn't tall like that.  There will be an adjournment at 1 o'clock but that's as far as it goes for the time being.  Yes, you're handing in the statement by Mr Steyn and that will be Exhibit H.

MR VISSER: Gen  Steyn, you have previously given evidence and you incorporate that evidence once again today.  Is that correct?

J A STEYN: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And your amnesty application in the bundle from page 55 to 94, do you confirm the correctness thereof as far as you know, of the contents thereof?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And in the bundle you have gone broadly and given statistics for the information of the Committee, is that correct?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And addressed several aspects?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: As well as the whole issue of Operation Vula and Butterfly as you understand it?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: We have already heard evidence about this from Mr Botha.  Do you in principle agree with what he has told the Committee?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And finally this refers to the Ndaba incident.  It's dealt with from page 64 Chairperson.  Very well then General, will you also hand up Exhibit H, which is a summary of your evidence which you want to place before the Committee.  Do you confirm the contents thereof as correct?  That's correct, Chairperson.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, I must make this comment.  It appears to me as if Mr Visser's methodology here is to present another affidavit for each witness as and when they arrive.

CHAIRPERSON: That's for the convenience of the Committee.

MR WILLS: Yes, Mr Chairperson, because of the language difficulty, both me and my colleague have difficulty with receiving these affidavits at such a late stage.  If I could request of Mr Visser that in respect of the other three witnesses that I presume are going to come, that such statements be given to us timeously, possibly before we adjourn today in order that we can make the necessary preparation particularly in view of our language difficulty.

CHAIRPERSON: If that is possible you must do that.

MR VISSER: That's a perfectly fair request Mr Chairman, we'll certainly see what we can do about that.  I must tell my learned friend through the Chair immediately that due to the shortage of time which we had to prepare for the present hearings, Mr Chairman, we have not really finalised them, but subject to that, certainly we will make an effort.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Please proceed.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Will you please start at paragraph 3?

J A STEYN: Chairperson, in May 1986 when I was appointed second in command of the Security Branch Port Natal, I was informed by a desk officer about the security situation in Natal.  I  received information about the onslaught of terror under which

MS POSWA: May we please ask the applicant to go a bit slower?

CHAIRPERSON: Your evidence is being interpreted, so just go a little slower please to allow the interpreter to interpret.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

J A STEYN: I will start again from the beginning.  I took note of the onslaught of terror under which Natal was at that time and I experienced it as such up to my transferral in May 1992.  In January 1987 I became the Divisional Commander of the Security Branch, Port Natal.

MR VISSER: Can we just continue with the incident itself?

J A STEYN: On the 7th of July 1990 I was informed by Col Botha about the arrests of Charles Ndaba and Shabalala.

MR VISSER: Mr Steyn if I may refer you back to the date of the 7th of July 1990, were you aware of Mr Charles Ndaba?

J A STEYN: Yes, I was aware of him.

MR VISSER: What were you aware of him?

J A STEYN: That he was back in South Africa and that he had been an informer of Mr Botha.

MR VISSER: And before the 7th of July were any reports made to you by Mr Botha with regard to Mr Ndaba?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: How long before?  Can you recall what the general cause of it was?

J A STEYN: Chairperson, it boiled down to the fact that certain underground structures were being established within the RSA.  Certain prominent persons were in South Africa at that stage which were busy with these underground structures.

MR VISSER: Very well.  What was your approach as to what should be done about this?  Did you decide yourself to act on it or did you decide anything else?

J A STEYN: No, Chairperson, Mr Botha discussed it with me and from time to time conveyed it to me and I let him continue with the monitoring of the situation.

MR VISSER: You left it to him?

J A STEYN: Yes, I left it to him and he would report back to me.

MR VISSER: You have already referred to what you had heard on the 7th of July and then you heard that Ndaba was arrested?

J A STEYN: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Will you please continue?

J A STEYN: Because of the disclosure of Vula, Col Botha and I on the 10th of July 1990 went to police Head Office where we briefed Gen Smit and deceased Gen Maj Beukes as well as other officers in this regard.  And after this briefing we received instruction to brief Gen van der Merwe as well.

MR VISSER: He was then the Commissioner?

J A STEYN: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Gen Smit gave the order that we should repeat this briefing to Gen van der Merwe the next morning.

MR VISSER: Is that what happened?

J A STEYN: Yes.  The next morning, early the next morning we briefed Gen van der Merwe along with other officers.  Gen van der Merwe gave instructions that before we proceeded with any arrests, the then State President and Minister Pik Botha and Internal and Foreign Intelligence Services as well as foreign embassies first had to be informed.  That was necessary as a result of the delicate stage of the negotiating process which was being conducted at that stage between the government, the ANC and other parties.
	The idea was that arrests would only take place after the Department of Foreign Affairs and all relevant bodies who had an interest in the matter, were informed.  At that stage the whole matter was dealt with on a confidential basis, otherwise the disclosure would prejudice the further investigation into the operation.  During the clandestine investigation which was meanwhile proceeded with, the circumstances were such that the arrest of Nyanda had to take place on the 12th of July 1990.

MR VISSER: You were not present, but this is information which was made known to you?

J A STEYN: Yes.  After this arrest, further arrests also took place.