Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MR LAX: You actually saw the body of Mrs Tswabisi? ---I saw Mr Tswabisi's body, as well as my sister's body. They were sleeping nextto each other.

MR LAX: Can you confirm what sort of injuries they had?

WITNESS: I couldn'tsee properly, but Mr Tswabisi was bleeding through the nose as well as the ears.My sister was bleeding. There was a wound, an open wound in her neck.

MR LAX: Thank you. As far as you know has any case ever happened aboutyour sister's death?

WITNESS: We were never notified. I know absolutely nothing.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... death certificate?

WITNESS: Yes, we did get thedeath certificate.

MR LAX: Would you be able to make that available to us please? ---I didn't bring it with.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... from you later. Now, you told us that therewas no children in her house. Did she have children?

WITNESS: She had three children.

MR LAX: And who's taking care of those children?

WITNESS: I am the one who'staking care of the children.

MR LAX: Do you receive any assistance? Are you working?

WITNESS: Yes, Iam working.

MR LAX: And do you receive any assistance for those three childrenfrom anyone else, or from the Government?

WITNESS: No, I am not getting any helpfrom anywhere.

MR LAX: Thank you, Mrs Hadebe. Can I now ask Mrs Tswabisi please totell us her story.

MR LAX: Good morning, Mrs Tswabisi.

WITNESS: Good morning. Can you please try and speak a bit closer to the microphone,otherwise we can't hear what you're saying. That's much better, thank you. MrsTswabisi, you were married to Steven Molefe Tswabisi, is that correct? --- Yes,that's correct, Sir.

MR LAX: And your husband was killed in a shooting on the same day asAnna Hadebe.

WITNESS: Yes, that's correct, Sir.

MR LAX: Can you tell us a little bit about your family, how many ofyou there were or are?

WITNESS: I have six children, two boys and four girls.

MR LAX: How old was your husband when this happened?

WITNESS: He was bornin 1924. I don't remember quite well how old he was when this took place.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... helpful for us to have the date. Now, pleasewill you tell us what happened on that day that your husband got shot.

WITNESS: Therewas a boy caught on that particular day. My husband got shot whilst he was outside.He was washing. He got into the house. He went into his bedroom. That's wherehe prepared himself. He was combing his hair. That's when I heard a gunshot.The gunshot went for the second time. Anna was also shot. When he got into thehouse I was in the kitchen. I had taken the child. He went out of his bedroom.He went out through the kitchen door. He told me that he was going to town.Just as he was going out of the kitchen door I heard a gunshot. He turned backand he was sort of staggering. When he got to the bedroom door that's wherehe knelt. I put the child down to try and attend to him. I held him. I askedhim, "Have you been shot?" That's when he bled through the mouth. The bloodwas just seeping out. Then when he was kicking that's where his strength started to wane. I was very confused at that time.I ran outside to enlist some help. I couldn't get anyone to help me. I got backinto the house. I found that he was still bleeding through the mouth. (Pause)

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... take your time just to recover. Nomusa, canyou help her? (Pause) Are you feeling all right now, Mama, that you can continue?--- Yes, I can continue, Sir. When I went out for the second time I saw anotherman, but I have forgotten what his name was. I called him in. He got into thehouse. He found my husband sprawled on the floor. He asked whether my husbandwas shot. I said yes, he was shot. This man went out. He came back in a car.He took my husband. Then I saw quite a number of men in the house. My husbandwas put into the car. They were taking him to the hospital. Mr Lepaka is thegentleman who took my husband to the hospital. When they got to the bridge theycame across the car that had the occupants who shot at my husband. They tookhim from there, they put him into an ambulance and took him to the hospital.I was left behind, I never went to the hospital, because I was very confusedand I was all by myself in the house. I had a small child. Nobody went to thehospital to actually find out whether he was shot or he was just sleeping. WhenMr Lepaka came back within a short while there came the police. They took me.They said I must go and make a statement. I went with them. I told them andrelated as to what had happened. Then we came back home.

MR LAX: What happened after that, Mama? Please take your time ... (inaudible)(Pause) Do you feel not able to continue? Would you like to stop there? ---I will just end up there because I can't remember things very well.I can't remember what happened thereafter, after having written the statementat the police station, but I remember when I got home my two boys were back,they were at home, and they've been the ones who were going up and down goingto the doctors and to the hospitals and to the mortuaries to find out exactlywhat happened. I just sat at home, and I was mentally disturbed and I was soconfused.

MR LAX: Thank you for that. Are you able to confirm that there wasa strike on on that day, and that there was quite a lot of shooting in the area?--- Yes, there was a lot of violence in the township. The youth took the barricadesand they put everything on the roads, and they were singing. There was a lotof violence I must say.

MR LAX: Are you aware that there was an inquest into your husband'scase? Do you remember that? (Pause) Do you not understand the question? (Pause)Sorry, can you just stop for a second? I can't hear a thing.

WITNESS: The policecame to my house and they picked me up. They said I should go and write a statement,and thereafter they came to my place now and then to tell me that I should goand appear in court. And every time they would tell me that the case has beenpostponed, and I was then told that my husband died in a conflict. He was caughtin the middle of a conflict and he died like a soldier, and they just left methere.

MR LAX: Thank you. If I can tell you that we have been able to getthe court papers from that inquest. We have only recently got them, so we haven'thad a chance to look at them properly, but we will try and tell you what theysay.  /After your

MR LAX: After your husband died who looked after you, who was ableto support you after that?

WITNESS: Nobody helped me. I survived on the donationsfrom the people, and I applied for pension and that was organised. It was in1991 when I started getting pension and the money where my husband was working.He was working at National in Boksburg.

MR LAX: So did you get a pension from them as well?

WITNESS: Yes, they usedto send me a cheque. Every month they would send me a cheque. Since last yearthey haven't sent me anything.

MR LAX: Have you made any inquiries to find out why?

WITNESS: Yes. My sonwent to Boksburg to inquire. He went to ask them what happened, and they saidto him no, they thought that I was dead.

MR LAX: So have they started again?

WITNESS: No, Sir, not now.

MR LAX: Perhaps someone from our office can help you follow that up.Okay, I have no further questions. I will return to the Chair.

KHOZA MGOJO: Just one question. In your statement you saythat you have suffered painful headaches ever since the incident. Do you getany medical treatment for these headaches?

WITNESS: No, I don't get any medication.I only get a few tablets from the chemist. I told them about my headaches andthey said I should come and buy some medicines if I have money.

KHOZA MGOJO: Okay, we'll try and attend to that too. Thank you.