Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-12

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, gentlemen.  Dr Boraine?

DR BORAINE: Thank you, Chairperson.  I know we're fighting against time and you have been very eloquent in your presentations, but first there - we've heard from a number of people who've been before us and we are yet to hear a number more that feel that sanctions, including financial sanctions were counter-productive and I think you used the phrase yourself, hurt the very people it was supposed to help.
 Now, in your own presentation, I think you come to the conclusions that certainly right towards the end it was the lack of loans which drove the Government out the negotiation table, apart from obviously the internal opposition which you have referred to.
 I wonder if you could just say a couple of words about that and in particular the relationship of banks, international banks which you say had no fig leave behind which to hide and also the role of the major oil companies, those who you isolate.
 I'm afraid it's a large question, I know, but I'm trying to put all my questions in one in case I'm not allowed to ask another.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

LORD HUGHES: Okay.  Let's deal with the oil embargo first.  In 1973 the organisation of (indistinct) countries, called for a complete out of oil boycott and from then on South Africa depended on five oil majors;  Shell, BP, Mobil, Caltex and (indistinct) to help break the bone.
 These five companies controlled 85 percent of the petroleum products market.  Indeed Shell has admitted that it was in 1974, Shell and BP's chairmen confirmed that the oil companies have intentionally set out to throw out the (indistinct) attempts to enforce the oil embargoes.
 The oil companies were also involved of course in helping the - to develop the technology of oil from coal, the SASOL thing.
 So I don't think there's any doubt of the importance of the oil companies, because the one major resource which South Africa doesn't have, is its own indigenous oil.
 Now, coming to this issue as to whether this investment would hurt Black people more than it would White people and whether or not an investment could actually bring about the change of Apartheid.
 The (power failure) was struck at the (indistinct) aspects of those people, to put it mildly, were uneasy about the Apartheid system.  Whatever the theory, there's no doubt that racial discrimination existed long before Apartheid was formally developed as an equal, but separate development system.
 Everyone could see the massive unemployment which was there.  It was clear that British business didn't think twice about using the police in terms of trying to call down strikes.  There was several apart from the Durban ones and the one was at Elandsfontein and so on.
 Pilkington company won the strike of the South African rubber company in Howick, where as a matter of slight interest I actually served my engineering apprenticeship.
 So, they used the system and as the repression got more and more it was quite clear that there was no wish to change the system and had the separate but equal development had any credibility or were there any real efforts at developing separate states, perhaps one could argue that investment would be justified.
 I found it very difficult to understand why in a country the size of South Africa, populated by different people over centuries, and when the Bantu (indistinct) proposition came into being, not one single homeland had gold mines.
 Not one single homeland had diamond mines.  All the resources happened apparently to be in areas that were populated only by Whites.
POWER FAILURE
 
REMBRANDT:  PRESENTATION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Johan Rupert, good morning and welcome.  Are you the sole representative for the Rembrandt group today?
 Mr Rupert, you've come to speak to a very personal submission by your father on the company that he has a very large interest in and the history of that company.
 Thank you for coming all the way from Cape Town.  Can you please stand to take the oath?  Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Welcome, Mr Rupert.  Would you take the oath or the affirmation?

JOHAN RUPERT: The oath.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.

JOHAN RUPERT: (Duly sworn in, states).

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, indeed.

JOHAN RUPERT: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sure you've heard me through the morning talk about discipline and time.  In the business world that is what you live with.  I'm going to give you 20 minutes to talk to the submissions and another 20 minutes for questions.