Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-21

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Makoala, is there anything that you would like to say to the victims and to the next of kin of the deceased people?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: In the first instance I would like to ask for forgiveness from Mr Tsemane's family about what happened.  We didn't plan to kill that person, but because of the situation at that time he, he got involved in the attack.  I would like to ask for forgiveness from Mr Tsemane's family.  May they please forgive me because it was not our intention to kill black people. To the families of other victims I would like to say, in every war or struggle there are people that get injured, there are people that die, and there are people that get crumpled.  I'm trying to explain to the family of these victims that what happened, happened because we were in a struggle, or in a war for freedom.  I'll end up there.

MR MTHEMBU: Is there anything more you wish to add, or to tell the Committee about, or is that your testimony?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is Mr Makoala's testimony.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No questions, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Makoala when did you join APLA?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I joined APLA in 1992.

MR PRIOR: When, can you tell us the month?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: It was right at the beginning of year.

MR PRIOR: Training in Umtata is that right?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: Did you learn how to use weapons, like the R4?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is true.

MR PRIOR: Who was your Commander in Umtata at that time?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I wasn't in Umtata, I was in Jozanna.  At that time.

MR PRIOR: Commander in Jozanna?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: My Commander at that time was, Comrade Phila, not Comrade Dolo it was Comrade Phila. His other name is Pawa or Comrade Uys.  And those were the names I knew in, with.

MR PRIOR: Is he still alive?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I'm not sure about that.

MR PRIOR: When did you last see him?  That is now Phila Uys Pawa.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: If I remember when I last saw him in 1993. At Umtata.

MR PRIOR: Now, before the 19th of November 1992, that was the attack that you just described in your evidence, on how many other operations had you embarked, had you gone on?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Are you asking me to explain about those operations, or should I tell you the number of operation I was involved in?

MR PRIOR: Idea of how many other operations, I don't, the purpose of the question is not to get details about it.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: There can be about three or four, if I remember well.

MR PRIOR: And we heard yesterday from Mr Dolo, your co-applicant, that on two previous occasions you were with him when he did a, a training operation at the same spot of the road between Sterkspruit and Lady Grey.  Is that correct?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: Include those two training operations, in the form, in the previous operation that you were involved in?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No, I don't include them, because I wasn't aware that, that they were operations.

MR PRIOR: Did you, on those two occasions, those training operations, can you just tell us briefly, give us a description of what occurred?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: What happened in the first instance is that, we were, I was still in the same unit with Comrade Dolo, Roger and Scorpion.  Firstly we attacked a car, which had a white person in it and we attacked the car with molotovs.  But that car was not damaged.  We were only testing our molotovs.

CHAIRPERSON: With your molotovs?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes we were intending to hit the car.

CHAIRPERSON: It was not an attack?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: My Commander, Comrade Dolo told me that, that was not an attack it was only an, a training.

CHAIRPERSON: You through molotovs which are, we all know are dangerous objects at a car with an intention to hit it.  It would appear to me it amounts to attempted murder on your part.  Why have you not asked amnesty for it?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I only thought that was training, this molotovs were not quite up to standard, because they had, they were white, they didn't even explode.

CHAIRPERSON: Bad, weren't they?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I don't know what, whether my Commander knew that those molotovs were dangerous or not.

CHAIRPERSON: That's about the second attack now?  Now tell us about one attack where you threw molotovs at a car driven by a white person, what about the other attack?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: In the second attack I still in the very same unit with the Comrades I have mention it me, Comrade Dolo, Roger and Scorpion.  We were there trying to attack a car again, but nothing happened to that car again.  No molotovs were thrown, we were intending to hit that car with molotovs but it was travelling at very high speed and we couldn't do that.

CHAIRPERSON: ... (inaudible)

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No we didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: So you walked all that way, you saw a car going past you at very high speed and you walked home again.  Is that what you are telling us?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: Chairperson through you, it is that all that happened at that second occasion?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: May you please repeat your question?

MR PRIOR: Is that all that happened on the second occasion?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is so.  Nothing further happened.

MR PRIOR: And on the first occasion did you only throw molotovs?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: You sure about that?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, I'm sure about that, because I was present.

MR PRIOR: See, your Comrade told us yesterday that he fired some shots at one of those vehicles.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: My Comrade try to shoot, but his rifle jammed, so there was no shots fired, if I remember well.

MR PRIOR: He told us he fired, he didn't say anything about his rifle jamming.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: All I know that, that gun jammed and only molotovs were thrown to that car.

MR PRIOR: And the other car?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Nothing happened to the second car.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  Mr Makoala did you prepare those molotovs, your unit that is, at Jozanna's?  I will repeat the question, did your unit, including yourself, did you make those molotovs before you went on those, as you call them, training operations?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: Why, the 19th of November, the day that you actually carried out an attack and killed people there, did you have molotovs with you?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No, there were no molotovs. I don't really know, because only my Commander knows the molotovs were not present.

MR PRIOR: Was there no room in your unit to discuss the operation with your Commander, that  is Mr Dolo, before you went out on a operation?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: As a soldier I was only briefed when we arrived at our destination where the operation was to be carried out.  I only took orders.  All I know, all I knew was that we are going to a operation, I didn't know what type of operation it was.  I was only briefed when we arrived at the place of the operation what was about to happened.

MR PRIOR: On the previous occasions you went on foot, we heard yesterday.  Approximately 16 kilometres to the venue and 16 kilometres back.  But, on the third occasion, that is on the 19th of November, you went by truck, you got a lift there.  Is that right?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes, it is true.

MR PRIOR: Was there any explanation given for that chance?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No, there was no explanation given.

MR PRIOR: When you alighted from that vehicle that had taken you to the road, were you ultimately carried out the attack, did you know that you were going to attack white motorists?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I only knew that were going to an operation, but not knowing what type of operation it was.