Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I certainly wouldn't. I have now given my heart to Jesus Christ and that has changed my entire vision and my convictions.

UNKNOWN: Do you want amnesty?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, of course.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, is there any purpose in staying in prison as far as you are concerned, is there any reason why you should still be punished or rehabilitated?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I am not part of the constitution-making process, but I firmly believe that there should be a system which evaluates people, as regards their process of growth in prison.  Some people can stay in prison for 20 years and they won't change at all.  When somebody else might be in prison for only one year and transform themselves completely.  I believe that during the two years I have spent in prison, and I am very grateful that I spent that time in prison, because without that I wouldn't have gained the deeper insights which I have.  I believe that these two years have changed my life entirely and I can now make a positive contribution to society.  I don't think there is any reason for me to continue to stay in prison.

UNKNOWN: Lastly, a suggestion has been made in the media that some of these applications for amnesty is simply to release people from prison and not simply to release people from prison and not because there was any deep change in people's political convictions.  Would you agree with that?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: No, in my case definitely not. I know for a fact that I have changed, one can see that from my letters, from my conduct in prison.   There has been a total transformation in my life.  Of course, there has been a - my father and I have grown apart quite drastically, because he still holds the same views as he has done in the past, although he is no longer actively involved.  He has isolated himself from the world, but I can't see the sense of my remaining in prison any longer, because my views, my attitudes have changed so radically, my attitude towards society and the world at large.

CLLR ERLEIGH: Lastly, it has been mentioned, that Jurgen Grobbelaar's mother was very upset about the influence you exercised over her son.  Could you tell the Commission a little bit about that, please?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: A while ago after I saw Mrs Grobbelaar testifying at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, I felt such empathy for - I saw the pain she was going through, the pain of losing a son, and I felt terribly responsible for his death.  Because I was the leader of the organisation and I recruited him to work for the organisation.  I then wrote a letter to her in which I apologised to her and asked for her forgiveness and I tried to support her in her hour of need.  Yesterday I had the opportunity to hand the letter to her.  She did not receive it very well yesterday and this morning she came to me and put her arms round me and told me that she forgave me.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV RHOODE

HASSAN MALL: Mr Mpshe?

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Du Plessis, you can put on the mike because I am going to put questions to you in English.  First I am going to refer you to your documentation attached to the application form, that is Annexure B to your application form.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I haven't got a copy.

UNKNOWN: Even if you don't have it, I will read it out.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: I want to read to you here from page 3 of Annexure B, Mr Chairman, paragraph one, the last sentence. I will quote it
"After a time the two of us decided that we should establish an underground organisation as soon as we had left the Defence Force, which would have certain political aspirations, and which a soldier (weerman) would have as one of his main pillars."
What do you mean by "weerman"?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I think that is a spelling mistake, it is supposed to be "Weermag".

UNKNOWN: Oh.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Excuse me, Mr Mpshe, what page of Annexure B are you reading from?

UNKNOWN: Page 3 of Annexure B.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: The first paragraph, the last sentence.

HASSAN MALL: What is that document headed?

UNKNOWN: It is just headed Annexure B "Geweld, deel van regse politieke denke".

HASSAN MALL: Annexure B of my papers is something entirely different. It is Annexure B to the applicant Mr Van Wyk, the same document?

UNKNOWN: No, Annexure B to the application of Mr Du Plessis.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Du Plessis himself?

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, not to take the Committee's time, I am not going to be referring to it any more.

HASSAN MALL: Very well.

UNKNOWN: There will only be one question but I will quote that and that will be the end of it.

HASSAN MALL: All right.

UNKNOWN: To save time.  So Mr Du Plessis, you are saying that is a mistake, it should read "wat 'n weermag as een van sy hoof steunpilare sou he"? (The Defence Force would have as one of its main supporting pillars).

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Defence Force.

UNKNOWN: What did you envisage by that "Weermag"?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: A military wing, like the Umkhonto weSizwe was a military wing of the ANC,  we envisaged a military wing or a "weermag" for our organisation.

UNKNOWN: And would I be correct if I said that a military wing was going to be one of the pillars of your intended organisation, that you did foresee the loss of human life during your operations?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, yes, in war time that is what happens, people die.  We thought that we should create an army as one of the pillars of the organisation in order to be able to defend our people against the communists and what we believed to be terrorists, and to be able to offensively take this country to a freedom for the White people, which meant, could have been a revolution.

UNKNOWN: You testified that some of the political leaders you met, amongst others it was Van Tonder of the BBB, Anton Terblanche of the BBB as well, and Dries Alberts.  Did you attend meetings with them or did you just casually see them?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: No, we had meetings, I can recall specifically a meeting with Mr Dries Alberts, where I actually took documentation with on various occasions, discussing with him certain plans about a military wing for the organisation, about our political objectives, as well as the long-term planning for this organisation.

UNKNOWN: Did they or did you tell them about the establishment of the NSP then?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, at this time that I went with Mr Dries Alberts, I hadn't changed the name to the NSP yet, the Nationalist Socialist Partisans, it was still the South African Partisans at that stage.

UNKNOWN: Yes, but did you disclose this to these leaders, your modus operandi?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Can you say that they knew your organisation, they knew how you are going to operate, they knew everything about it?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: No, they didn't know everything about it, because of security reasons, I couldn't disclose all information. However, the broad outline I did disclose to them, to Mr Anton Terblanche, Mr Leunis Van Rooyen and as well as to Mr Dries Alberts.

JUDGE WILSON: Was this that you would form a military wing and take over the country by force? That's just summarising it.

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, basically, yes.

JUDGE WILSON: Thanks.

UNKNOWN: Would I then be correct Mr Du Plessis, to state that the knowledge of the NSP was to a very, very limited number of people. It was very restricted?  It was not publicly known?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: At that stage it wasn't publicly known because we had to work underground due to fear of security police intervention, but we envisaged a growth substantially, but the military wing was always to be an underground organisation, which meant that its activities and its people would have been unknown and as far as possible anyway.