Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-04-21

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I would like to call the matter of Mlungisi Nyembezi, Luzuko Sidney Mpiyakhe, Solomzi Theo Nomatshizole, Luyanda Ntikinca.
	Chairperson, I would like the legal representatives involved in this matter to introduce themselves and read their names into the record.  My name Chairperson is Zuko Mapoma, the leader of evidence for the Committee.

MR NOTUNUNU: Honourable Chair, my name is Notununu N.M.,  represent the four applicants in this matter sir.

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, and Honourable members of the Panel, I represent the Mbhele family.  My name is Adv A.R. Brink, I am instructed by the Legal Aid Board.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we going to conduct this hearing in a similar fashion as to yesterday's one?

MR NOTUNUNU: Honourable Chair, we have had some pretrial conference of some kind between MR BRINK and Mr Mapoma and by so doing, we wanted to check whether there could be some ways of shortening the proceedings.
	What we have actually agreed on Honourable Chair and Honourable members of the Panel was that we are going to call the deponent in the main affidavit, that is Nyembezi and thereafter also call Luyanda Ntikinca, who has apparently been implicated as a person from whom two of the firearms were found.
	Apparently MR BRINK seemed to be satisfied with that, but he did indicate that he was not in fact merits to that, but so far, this is the position.

CHAIRPERSON: What would be the point in calling Mr Ntikinca?

MR NOTUNUNU: As already indicated Honourable Chair, that was on the insistence of MR BRINK for the Mbhele family.  He said there are some things he possibly want to ask from him.  I don't know the type of things.  Perhaps he is the person who can better be in a position to answer that question.
	The other thing, Honourable Chair and Honourable members of the Panel, I wish to mention is that in that conference we had also eliminated some of the things, for instance as from paragraph 1 of the affidavit of Nyembezi which is on page 13, Honourable Chair and Honourable members of our case, our application, page 13, that is the affidavit of Mlungisi Nyembezi, of our affidavits.
	From paragraph 1 right up to paragraph 12, from paragraph 1 right up to paragraph 12, we had agreed between the three of us that all those facts therein are admitted and as such, MR BRINK apparently is disputing the rest of the paragraphs in the main affidavit of Mr Nyembezi and those are then the issues on which we are going to call the evidence, from paragraph 13 Honourable Chair, right up to the end apparently.
	Right up to the last paragraph, that is paragraph 31.  Thank you Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink, the calling of the other applicant, can we leave that in abeyance and then you can decide or we can decide at a later stage what to do?

MR BRINK: Certainly Mr Chairman.

MR NOTUNUNU: Thank you Honourable Chair.  Honourable Chair and Honourable members of the Panel, this is an application in terms of Section 18 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, 34 of 1995.
	The applicants herein Honourable Chair and Honourable members are as mentioned by Mr Mapoma, the Officer leading evidence.  As already indicated Honourable Chair, there are some issues where parties have agreed.
	I now propose to call the evidence of the main deponent, that is Mlungisi Nyembezi herein.

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: (sworn states)

MR NOTUNUNU: Mr Nyembezi, you are appearing before this Commission today and the purpose of coming here are for you to tell the Honourable Chair and Honourable Panel and all the members of the public herein, about the taking of two policemen at Bongweni police station in 1993, who were subsequently found dead during the night or in the morning.
	Do you promise that you are in fact going to tell the whole story to the Honourable Chair and the Honourable members of the Panel?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: That is so sir.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, you also understand Mr Nyembezi, that the members, the family members of the deceased could be amongst us here.  Will you then avail them the opportunity of really making them know what happened to their beloved ones by telling the whole truth and the whole story?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Certainly sir.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, it is common cause Mr Nyembezi, that you were a member of what is known or was known as Self Defence Units, having been trained by MK cadres, is that the position?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Correct sir.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, it is also common cause Mr Nyembezi, that some of your duties as Self Defence Units, were to in fact protect the communities against the atrocities committed by the enemy, is that so?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Certainly sir, it is so.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, we start with the paragraph 10, Honourable Chair and Honourable members, do you recall an incident in 1993 when the innocent children sleeping in a house in Northcrest, were brutally massacred by the then South African Defence Force?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: I remember sir.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, you also recall or attended the burial of those children?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Yes sir, that is so.

MR NOTUNUNU: Were you with your co-applicants, that is the three seated behind us, at the time when you attended the funeral?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Yes, that is true, we were with our comrades.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, can you describe the funeral itself, the burial ceremony, how was it?  Was it a moving thing, was it a joyous thing, how was the funeral itself?

CHAIRPERSON: Even more important, you say you attended this funeral, did it affect you in any way?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Yes sir, it is the sadness, the immense grief that touched me deeply.

MR NOTUNUNU: You were touched by the sadness and the immense grief as you say?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Yes sir, it was tragic that students so young could be so brutally attacked.  The parents were in an unbearable kind of grief, we were also in absolute pain.

MR NOTUNUNU: Now, Mr Nyembezi, I understand that there were claims which were made by the then President De Klerk, when he justified those killings of those innocent, sleeping children by the South African military forces on the ground, that the house in question was an APLA base, do you know that?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Yes sir, I agree with that.  That is what made South African people who were here in the Transkei at the time, to be very angry that De Klerk allowed or De Klerk permitted orders to be given for such.

MR NOTUNUNU: I see.  Now, I want you now to tell the Honourable Chair and Honourable members of the Panel and everybody here, there you are in a moving funeral as you have indicated, what happened?  What happened then?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: Sir, as you already said that we were members of the Self Defence Unit at the time, fighting against apartheid.  After the funeral, in great pain and grief, the comrades that were with as well, we drove off in a car.

MR NOTUNUNU: Okay, then you drove off in a motor vehicle, where did you drive to and why did you drive there to?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: We went to Kokstad sir.

MR NOTUNUNU: And could we perhaps know the purpose of your going to Kokstad, why were you going to Kokstad?

MLUNGISI NYEMBEZI: The reason why we went to Kokstad sir, as such cruelty had taken place, especially towards the parents who lost their children, we went to Kokstad to show the then government that the pain that they caused us was not acceptable.
	At the time the police station of the government of the day, we took them as our targets.  Targets of the struggle.
	We wanted to humiliate the government of the day.

MR NOTUNUNU: Okay, Mr Nyembezi, don't rush.  I've got problems keeping pace with you, just take your time, don't rush.
	You say you wanted to humiliate the government, which government did you want to humiliate and can you expantiate on this humiliation of the government?