Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-30

MR WILLS: And do you remember the name of the person you shot?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, it was Moentoe Mkhize.

MR WILLS: Yes, committee members, I refer to the pages 84 and 89 of the bundle which is the post mortem report of that deceased.  Did you kill anybody else on that day?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes.

MR WILLS: Do you remember who they were?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: It is only Moentoe Mkhize whom I realised I have shot.

MR WILLS: And the others you are not sure of?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now my understanding is, is that you had a, you used a 303 rifle on the day in question?  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Did you use any other weapons?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I was only holding a 303 rifle.  That is the arm, the firearm that I used.

MR WILLS: Now, after this incident or how long would you estimate that this incident, how long did it take?  I mean, my understanding is, is that the fighting commenced at about six a.m. and when do you estimate that it was finished?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We started at about past five, somewhere to six o' clock and it continued until six o' clock and the fight continued thereafter.

MR WILLS: And what happened after it had finished?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We went back to Umkumazi and thereafter back to Ndaleni.

MR WILLS: And then shortly after that, in October, you were arrested?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, I was arrested on the second of October 1992.

MR WILLS: Now, from my reading the bundle and the court record, it appears that there were, at the time of the, this incident, there were a number of women and children that were in the Gengeshe village at the time of the attack.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct, they were there.

MR WILLS: Did you, in any way, attack any of these women or children or you or members of your group?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We did not wish to kill children and women, because we knew that they were not involved in the whole issue.

MR WILLS: Now, I just want to refer to the general politics of Gengeshe at the time and immediately prior to that.  After you had left, after the ANC community had left in April 1992 after the death of your son, was it possible for an ANC member to reside in Gengeshe freely?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They could not stay there peacefully, because they were killed.

MR WILLS: Now, what somebody who was not a member of a political party, somebody who was neutral, what would, would he be in a position to stay there?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They could also not stay there, because only the IFP members were allowed to stay in Gengeshe.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any neutrals, were there anybody there, at that time, who were not either IFP or ANC?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: There was only IFP and ANC.

MR WILLS: Sorry, on the day of the attack, the ANC people had, sorry, just immediately prior to the attack, the ANC people were not living there.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: May you please repeat your question?

MR WILLS: My question is, is that, in fact, I will rephrase it.  From the 12th or from the day after your son's death, the ANC community had actually left Gengeshe.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, can you tell the committee why you took the action that you did on the 26th of September 1992?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We went back to our homes and we did what we did, because we thought we had the right to come back to our place.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, committee members, I have no further questions at this stage.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Could I clear up something with you?  You have referred to your, on the day you went back you went to your tuck-shop.  Do you remember telling us that?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And what did you find when you got to your tuck-shop?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: The tuck-shop was burnt down.

CHAIRPERSON: And you said then you came back and you were on your way to one of your shops.  How many shops did you use to own in that area?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I had a shop and a tuck-shop.

CHAIRPERSON: And what happened to your shop?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We could not even reach the store or shop, but we knew that it was also burnt down.

CHAIRPERSON: And your house?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: The house was burnt.

CHAIRPERSON: And is this how you use to make your living before you were forced out of the area, running shops there?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And how old are you, please?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I am 48 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you have any alternative source of support?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: After my shops were burnt, I did not have anything to survive on.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you lose anything, apart from your shops, do you have any cattle, anything of that nature?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I lost my shop and a tuck-shop, the house, my belongings, furniture and even the dogs.

CHAIRPERSON: Everything you possessed?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, everything that I had.  They took everything, even the corrugated iron.  They removed it above the roofs.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thank you.
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR WILLS

MR WILLS: Yes.  Sorry, if I could just ask one question that I forgot to very briefly.  Mr Poswa, how many wives do you have?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I have three wives.

MR WILLS: And how many children do you support?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I have 19 children.

MR WILLS: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: There is one other point I wanted to enquire about, but I thought it might be easier to ask you, Mr Wills, to, you might be able to supply the answer as to where is this place, Gengeshe?

MR WILLS: Yes, Mr Chairperson, I can supply the answer.  It is approximately 16km from Richmond, travelling on the road towards, there is that famous little area just outside of Richmond, Burn Valley.  It is more or less, I would ...

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the way to Elandsklip?

MR WILLS: I would not be able to answer that.  I think it is in that general direction, but I am not exactly sure in relation to Elandsklip where it is.  It is, I would estimate that Gengeshe, I have been there, it is I would say north-west of, slightly north-west of Richmond.

CHAIRPERSON: A long way from Bulwa?

MR WILLS: A fair, long way from Bulwa, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We will now adjourn for half an hour.  We will start at half past one.  Is that alright with you?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is in order Mr Chairman, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADVOCATE MPSHE

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Poswa.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You told us that when you were proceeding, going back to your place after you had inspected your tuck-shop, shots were fired and then you retaliated.  Are you in a position to tell us exactly what happened during the retaliation?  Whether it was only the shooting or it was the shooting and the destruction of property or what.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We shot them and they also shot at us and one of them by the name of Mkhize was shot and also some other people whom I have not seen, but I heard were shot and one of them was by the surname of Jama at Umkumazi and some of them whom I have not come close to.  Some of them were shot at, some of them were stabbed and there were about six.  We also burnt one of the cars that they used when they were going to kill ANC members in Pinetown and we also burnt it to ashes.  We also burnt one house, because some people ran into the house while we were shooting each other.  We burned the house asking them to come out.  When they came out we shot at them.  They managed to escape, because it was, there was smoke, we could not see them very well.  Unfortunately, they ran to a direction where they meet those who were on the lower part of the area and they also killed them.