Special Hearings — Children's Hearings — 1997-05-22

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: What I do remember is with training, ones training lasted approximately six months and I remember the last time was in May and when I arrived at Quatro I do not know exactly when it was.  I do not know the date or the time or anything.  All I can remember now is between May and the time I recovered, because I did recover fully, on the first of January 1983, this was seven months during which I do not know what happened, but it, by the time I recovered after seven months my left arm was non-functional and I could not speak and I had scars all over, I could not stand and I could not walk and I remember that.  I remember sitting in a corner not knowing where I was, not knowing who the people around me were and they would call me on an unfamiliar name.  They would call me Mad Joe.  So I would be worried, because I wanted to know who was Mad Joe and I remember picking up a firearm and looking at it, but I was now worried whether I had shot at anyone and wondering if I was in jail and so forth.
 As time went by I got better and better and I could walk as well.  One day I was called to the administration block and I was asked do you know Afrika Nkwe and I said, yes, I know him and I was told to go back to my cell.  I went and I sat in the cell and all this time I could not speak to anyone.  I could not know where I was coming from, why I was there.  I was just staying there not knowing anything.  My name was Mad Joe at that time.  Everybody had their own names there.  They would take us from one cell to another cell.  We were then separated from the people who were in that first cell.  We met new people, the others would go out to work in the garden and I would stay inside.  They would suffocate me sometimes, my face was swollen up.  I could not go out and work with others.  
 All the time I was wondering what was happening outside, because I did not know how the people I was with were.  Some had blisters in their hands.  I recovered from that life.  There would be always somebody who would be beaten up who would be screaming at night.  I was sick at the time thinking that when I recover they would beat me again.  The ANC cadres outside said that this boy has got to be released.  They tried to convince the people that I have to be released.  There was a library there, we would be taken on Wednesdays to take books so that we can read, but I was staying in a corner, I did not want to talk to anyone.  They were then made to make me talk even though I did not want to talk.  They would give me a book to read.  I would then do those exercises, because they wanted me to talk to somebody.
 I then regained confidence until I would be released in the mornings to go and work outside and come back late in the afternoons.  I was then called and asked and they told me to write a statement.  I said that, how can I write a statement, because I do not know anything.  They told me to write a statement to tell them what I was doing there.  I told them that I know this is a prison, but I do not know why I am here.  They said that I must not waste their time, because I know what I have done.  I told them that what I remember is that I had a gun in my hand and I was beaten up.  After that I could not remember anything.  They said that I was wasting their time, I must answer their questions.  If I do not want to talk they would take me to a dark cell and lock me inside alone.  
 We would rotate from one cell to another, but there were people who were locked in dark cells.  They wanted me to put, they wanted to put me there in that cell.  People in that dark cell would not be allowed to go outside as we were allowed.  What I did is because amongst the security guards there were people I knew from 1982, they were in the camps, they were training at that time.  While they were guarding me they would tell others what was happening in the camp.  They said that I took a gun and pointed a person, I wanted to shoot the person, but they overpowered me. I just took their story.  I, they asked me this person that I wanted to shoot, I said it was Manenberg.  I agreed to what they were saying.  
 Manenberg use to come and tell me different stories.  I was always in conflict with him.  I then signed a statement.  They took me back to the cell.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I would like you to conclude your story and please tell us, you have already told us how you were tortured.  Were there any other things you want to mention, any other ways of torture?  You have told us about a camp and a dark cell.  Is there anything else you want to add about the ways of torture so that we can conclude your story, because we want to know your situation in the present day.

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: There is nothing more I can say about torture, because from the first day in the camp until I recovered fully, I took seven months to recover, what I know is that I would recover for a short time and I would relapse again.  This was happening all the time during this seven months.  I would become unconscious now and then.  I cannot say in detail what was happening to me, but today I have recovered from what was happening to me at the time.  I heard other peoples' stories.  What was happening to me was also happening to them.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I would like to ask you some few questions before I hand over to the Chairperson.  The way you relate your story, it seems as if you were assaulted all the time since you got there.  Is that correct?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: Yes, that is correct.  From the day we arrived there I was assaulted since I was, until I was released from that jail.  My life was, I was not treated well.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Did they tell you why they were harassing you, why they were torturing you?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: No, nobody came to me and nobody told me anything.  We would be told that there was, there were people who were going to be sent to East Germany and then I would be told that I was not amongst the people who would be sent to East Germany.  I would sign application forms, but my applications would be denied.  They would tell me that I was not going anywhere.  I would be included in certain courses, but all of a sudden they will tell me that my application was not successful.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: You left the country, you wanted to be trained, but you did not get that.

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: After I was, I left Quatro I wanted to finish what I was there for, I wanted to be trained.  I trained for six months and all these things happened after that six months of training.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: When did you come back home?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: I came back in 1991.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Please tell us, briefly, from 1991 how was your life at home.  Was your mother still there?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: When I came back in 1991 things were not the same.  My friends were not around, we could not communicate with each other.  I would find means to support myself.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Did you meet any of your friends after you came back?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: Yes, but they are only friends, because we were friends while we were still children.  We greet each other and it ends there.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: What are you doing now?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: I am staying at home.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: You are not working?

ANTHONY THOZAMILE NTONI: No, I am not working.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Did you work after you came back?