Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

MS MAYA: Did you find any trace of what happened and which year your son died?

BESSIE MDODA: Even today I haven't got anything tangible. They didn't bring any documentary proof to confirm the fact that he died in 1984 because of any cause.  You know, when I look at this it seems as if they were just removing me.

MS MAYA: The person who they know was at Soutpansberg, what did they say about his remains?

BESSIE MDODA: I also asked about this and they said they
are going to take action and make investigations at Soutpansberg. During the period when I've been going along, Mrs Msimango always said that another problem that they were having, is that the ANC doesn't have the funds to make all the investigations, but are trying their best to obtain as much information as they can.
 But I've heard from them that there is no proof even today, it may happen that probably my son is still in those EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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camps where they were killed. Maybe he is in an asylum in Angola, nobody knows.

MS MAYA: Does it mean that now you do not know what happened to Xola, you don't know whether he lives or whether he died?

BESSIE MDODA: No I do not know anything, I would like to know really what happened because I want to know exactly what happened to him.

MS MAYA: What is the wish that you would like the Commission to do?

BESSIE MDODA: I'd like the Commission to please assist me and make through investigations about all this and tell me exactly what happened to Xola.  Is it true that he died, and where did he die, how?  Even if he died, so that I can believe that he really died, I would like forensic tests to be done to make sure that I can get his remains so that I can give him a dignified burial.
 The other thing that I'd like, because I can understand that he was naughty, he left two children here.

MS MAYA: Where are the children.

BESSIE MDODA: They are still with me.

MS MAYA: How old are they?

BESSIE MDODA: One was born in 1979, and one in 1978. One is at technikon, and one at high school. They are both boys.  They were just dumped at my door and I was told that they are mine.

MS MAYA: I'm sure you want something to be done about these children?

BESSIE MDODA: Yes I have wishes about them.

MS MAYA: Can we hear what you would like us to do about them?
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BESSIE MDODA: You know, because I am already aged, I won't be able to have much energy and be able to take them further in their education.  Their father wanted them to be advocates, and they are very good at mathematics.  I believe they would be happy in engineering.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mrs Bessie.  Do you want to say anything further?

BESSIE MDODA: No.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much.  Just a minute.  Are there any questions?

PANEL MEMBER: Mrs Mdoda, can we have clarity whether, when meeting with a person whom you say, the first person you asked was Chris Hani, did he immediately recognise Xola or maybe there was confusion about the name which he had used outside which might have been different from the one you are familiar with?

BESSIE MDODA: You mean the person I asked about Xola first?

PANEL MEMBER: : When you asked was he known as Xola inside as well as outside.  The reason why I'm asking that is because I want to make sure whether you were talking about the same person?

BESSIE MDODA: No the person I asked, that was Chris Hani, he knew Xola very well.  The only time I learned that there was
there was a mistaken identity was when those old people came to my place to come and tell us about his death, you know, so one of the excuses they gave us was that, ...(indistinct) were using student names, that 's why they took so long to tell us that he had died because they couldn't correlate his student name with his real name.

MS MAYA: Mrs Mdoda, this hurts because you and I are friends and so it's close to home. What I want to know is EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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whether when you talked to Chris Hani, were there any photographs that were shown to him so that he could identify whether you were talking about the same person?

BESSIE MDODA: No no, I had no photographs with me, I just went to him and then I asked him, you know, if he knew Xola, and immediately I told him that I was looking for Xola Jebe, then he said, "Oh sissy, you mean the one from Johannesburg, you mean the tall light-complexioned guy, from Johannesburg?"
I said, "Yes I meant that one".
Then he said, "Oh I know him very well, oh what a brilliant boy, he was a mathematics genius."  That's exactly what Chris Hani said.

MS MAYA: Am I then to assume that you're asking the Commission to assist you with the investigation? Would I then on behalf of our investigative unit ask for any information, particularly photographs and materials that can assist the investigative process?

BESSIE MDODA: Yes I do have some photographs which I could give you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

PANEL MEMBER: Just one question Mrs Mdoda, did you during this long period when you didn't know where he was and you
were going back and forward to Shell House, did you ever approach any other organisation for help?

BESSIE MDODA: No no.

PANEL MEMBER: Not at all?

BESSIE MDODA: No.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you.

MR NTSEBEZA: Mrs Mdoda you have asked for a thorough investigation of this matter.  I will just like to know
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whether in your own efforts, you have ever gone as far as Minister Joe Mudise in finding out what had happened to Xola?

BESSIE MDODA: No I never approached those people, unfortunately for me, I had listened to a lot of nasty stories about those people, as a result I thought it would be a futile exercise for me to ask them.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Just a couple of questions. First, your son left from Lesotho in 1979.  You had no letter or no phone call or no communication from that moment on?

BESSIE MDODA: Nothing, absolutely.

DR BORAINE: So it's been a very very long, hard search?  Secondly, the woman by the name of Buhiswa Thomas, have you ever been able to trace her or talk to her personally?

BESSIE MDODA: No, in fact I searched right through East London, because they said she was from East London and nobody knew about Buhiswa Thomas.  And yet in Maseru, everybody we met told me about her and in East London nobody knew about her.  And even this Galike fellow, who is also, I'm told, here in East London,he also told us about Buhiswa Thomas.  But he couldn't help us to locate her.

DR BORAINE: Just two more questions, quite quickly.  Mr Mofukeng, did he tell you personally, face to face, or was this on a telephone, that your son died in 1984 in Soutpansberg?

BESSIE MDODA: It was by telephone.

DR BORAINE: Okay, were you able to talk to him again after that?

BESSIE MDODA: No.

DR BORAINE: No, and he worked very close with Chris Hani?
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BESSIE MDODA: That's what I was led to believe.

DR BORAINE: Okay.  Last question, when they told you that your son was killed in a skirmish in 1984 in Soutpansberg, have you been able to find any details of that particular event?  Either from one side or the other?

BESSIE MDODA: No no.

DR BORAINE: Not at all?

BESSIE MDODA: I tried to investigate and find out but a lot of people just ask, where in Soutpansberg?

DR BORAINE: Okay, and I'm sure you must have asked them also, where is the body?

BESSIE MDODA: That's exactly what I'm looking for, his body.

DR BORAINE: Okay, and he wasn't taken back with his comrades, he wasn't buried, nobody seems to ...(intervention)

BESSIE MDODA: Just no trace at all, nothing whatsoever.  I still don't know what happened to his body, if in fact he died.

DR BORAINE: That's very helpful, thank you.