Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-05-06

MAGDELINE MOTSOSI: Good afternoon, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: You are the last person this afternoon and I thank you for your patience.  Magdeline you're also going to tell us about what happened in 1989, in Lekobo.  Many stories we have heard to-day already.  This famous camp or yard of Mr Molilwa features  in your suffering and pain as well.  Before I hand over to Dr Russell Ally, who'll be assisting you, can I just ask Professor Meiring to help you take the oath please.  Thank you.
PROF. MEIRING: Mr Motsosi, Motsosi will you please stand and raise your hand and repeat after me, what I'm going to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

MAGDELINE MOTSOSI: (sworn states)
PROF. MEIRING: Thank you very much.  Please be seated.

RUSSELL ALLY: Welcome to you, Magdeline.  Your account is of something that happened to you personally during this period that we've been hearing so much about and this conflict that we've been hearing so much about as well.  So will you please tell us what happened to you.  Give us your account.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Ma'am can I just stop you, we're not getting the ... OK.  Can, can she re-start please ?   Can you please start again, I'm sorry.

MAGDELINE MOTSOSI: It was in 1989.  It was Good Friday.  It was on a Friday at two o'clock in the morning. I heard an unusual knock.  I asked, who is knocking but I was frightened.  A man's voice came ahead saying, open for us.  Then I went out.  When I opened, a group of people entered and they couldn't all of them get into the house.  When they came to me they said to me, we are looking for a woman, are you Motsosi, Magdeline ?  I said yes.  They said the book which you have, where is it ?  We had a discussion with the old people that there should be a hall which should be used by the old aged people.  Then they said we should have a place which should be used  for old aged people's pension, so that we should not disturb people at school.  At that time I was having  a hundred rand, because we were collecting those two rands.  Then I said I don't have money, I only have a hundred rand with me.  They took that hundred rand.  After I gave them that hundred rand, I said, is that enough, because they were having guns and many kinds of armaments.  Then they said let's go we'll bring you back.  Then they said to me, who is Gibone ?.  Then they said, is, she's, I said, I told them she staying on the other side of the village.  I put on a blanket.
 I saw many men in the yard.  I went with them, then I knocked at that door.  Then they said who are you.  I said Motlaoile, then I said, open.  They, we've been sent to you.  When she opened the door she saw many people standing, then they took us again, then we asked where are you taking us to?  Then they said, you belong to organisations which bring problems to our village.  We went with them.  On the road a certain man clapped me, then that person said to me, you belong to organisations which our President doesn't like.  Then the other one said, leave the woman alone.  We'll see her later.  We went with them again.  We arrived at Adrian Mwelilo's house.  We  entered there, then they locked us in their police vans, then we found many people around who were arrested, or detained in that area.  As you want  to sleep, they will start shouting to you.  
 Then they said, here is your Chief.  They said wake up.  Then we were taken with their cars.  Then they said, take out your blanket.  They said, sit down.  A certain man  came  with a sjambok  and said I'm going to hit you with this.  He said, sleep.  I was moving from the distance from that corner to that corner.  I was wet at that time.  All my clothes were wet.  Then even my dresses would go up and see my face.  Then they would take a certain lady.  Then they said, come to the grass so that we, they did those things, because they wanted us not to sleep the whole night.  They were making us wet and they were casting aspersions to us.  When you want to pass water they say just pass water anywhere.  
 Early in the morning, we were put in the police vans.  Then they said, who is your Chief.  We told them that is, Mr Sebogodi is the Chief.  Then they said, you know nothing, your Chief is Mr Molilwa, whom you are giving problems.  We told them that we were not told that Mr Molilwa is the Chief.  We know that when a tribal meeting, we'll even see Mr Molilwa at Mr Sebogodi's place.  We were made wet by hosepipes and we were sjamboked.  We were beaten, all of us.  The were men and women.  It was confusing and people were screaming all over.  You'll hear even men screaming.  Those, they did those things on Saturday and Sunday and they made us to write statements saying, Mr Molilwa is our Chief and that Mr Sebogodi is not our Chief.  We knew that, all of us, we were living peacefully, all of us.  Wewere made to make statements and others  were made wet and many people were assaulted.  Our lawyers came.  Then they took about two loads of people and others were left there in the cells.  They were making us, they were hiding us because lawyers were coming.  
 On the second day again we were going to Mpogeng because they already told us we are a wanted animal.  I was one of those people who went to Mpogeng.  We bought T-shirts and I was one of them who bought T-shirts.  I put on Mandela's T-shirt.  When we arrived on the crossroads.  There is a cross which goes to Welwedacht.  There was a roadblock on the day which we were supposed to go to Mpogeng.  They stopped our cars, then they said, who is, where is Magdeline Motsosi?  They said, come here.  Then they said, , what were you going to do in Mpogeng ?  I told them I don't know what we were going to do.  They wanted me to tell what was going to be said at Mpogeng.  Then I told them that I will tell them when I come back.  One of them said he must phone a station commander called Dube.  We don't know these policemen who were there then.  Then they phoned.  Then his answer was bring those people here.  
 I was taken to a police van because I was thought to be a leader.  Then they took us to Welwedacht.  We were taken to a charge office.  They took me to Mr Dube, saying, this is the woman we brought  her here.  Then he asked me, where are you going ?  What are you going to do ?  What's the agenda?  Just tell us in short, what is going to be said there?  I told them that I don't know anything, I'll hear when I arrived there.  Then he said, are you one of the trouble makers  in our area?  Look what you are wearing.  This is the man who makes you adamant.  He clapped me.  My lips were cracked.  He teared, tore off my shirt, my T-shirt.  Then there was a certain boy who was wearing that T-shirt.  He tied him with his shoes.  The lawyer called Breytenbach arrived and then they chased me out.  They released us that we should meet her at the gate, then they said, we must leave.  
 We arrived at Pikinos.  I, with my T-shirt torn.  I slept thirteen days in detention at Motswedi with  the ANC membership cards with me.  He was, he was having a gun.  He said, I can shoot you now.  That's all I can say.

RUSSELL ALLY: Magdeline, thank you very much.   Magdeline, so there's not time for too many questions.  One of the things that interests me though, is, why was there so much interest from the side of Boputha, the police, the Boputhatswana police in this committee that you were also part of, this, this committee that collected this money from people in the village, this two rand.  Why were they so interested in this committee ?  Do you have any ideas?