Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-22

DEON MARTIN: At later stage, I can't recall the precise date but it was close to the New Year, General Oelofse and some other members were arrested for these explosions.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the 16th of December of that year 1993, where were you then?

DEON MARTIN: I was a the Voortrekker Monument.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you go there?

DEON MARTIN: This was the day of commemoration day, the day of Covenant.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you as AWB members, did you meet there?

DEON MARTIN: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And what happened there?

DEON MARTIN: General Oelofse came to our tent, he called us to his tent and he congratulated us again.  He asked us to form a guard of honour for the leader Eugene Terreblanche and we did that.  The Generals formed a line in front and we stood behind them and he congratulated us once again with the work that we had done.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you have to form a guard of honour, what was the reason fro that?

DEON MARTIN: I believe it was because he felt that he was proud of us and to give us some recognition for the work that we had done.

MS VAN DER WALT: And on the 6th of January 1994 you were arrested?

DEON MARTIN: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you make any statements to the police?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, I was tortured and so I had to give a statement.

MS VAN DER WALT: How were you tortured?

DEON MARTIN: Murder and Robbery and Crime Information Service took me into a bush close to Soweto and held me on the ground and they used a tube method, as they call it, and they tried to strangle me, I've got a mark on my nose and I made the statement as they wanted me to make the statement.

MS VAN DER WALT: And in your statement you mentioned what had happened there, is that correct?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, I was protecting many.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why do you say you were protecting many?  Who were you protecting?

DEON MARTIN: At first I wanted to protect myself, I tried to protect General Japie Oelofse as well as my comrades.

MS VAN DER WALT: The statement of the applicant is in bundle one, page 154 to 159.
	And in the statement you did not mention or you do not make any mention for any reason why you shot these people?

DEON MARTIN: Negative, that was to protect.

MS VAN DER WALT: And during the Court proceedings, did you testify?

DEON MARTIN: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you tell the Court then what you are telling us now?

DEON MARTIN: No, there I mentioned what the advocate at that time wanted me to tell and we lied in Court there.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you tell those lies then?

DEON MARTIN: This was to try to protect myself to get off as well as the General's staff.

CHAIRPERSON: You were accused number 6?

DEON MARTIN: I'm not sure.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that not so?

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes, the applicants were all together initially but then they divided the hearings and the first applicant and the present applicant, their hearings were held separate.  The one case was concluded first.

CHAIRPERSON: Do we have a copy of the Judgement?

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes, we have a copy of the Judgement, I think it's in the second bundle.  It seems to me as if we just have a Judgement of an Appeal of Kloppers and Martin.  The Judgement of the hearing in the Supreme Court we do not have.

CHAIRPERSON: The copy that I have here is only in regard to the other persons and not in regard to him?  ...[Transcriber's own translation]

MS VAN DER WALT: That is correct.  It seems it's just a Judgement on Appeal.
	You mention the General's staff, what does that mean, who is that?

DEON MARTIN: One can say they are a panel who take decisions with regard to what would happen when and where.

MS VAN DER WALT: And Eugene Terreblanche, the leader of the AWB, what is he of this General's staff.

DEON MARTIN: He's supposed to be the leader and his word would be law.

MS VAN DER WALT: While you were in prison, did you meet with Japie Oelofse, what was the situation?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, we were in the same section, he for the explosions in West Pretoria.  I can't remember how many times Japie Oelofse congratulated us, but just about everyday he would encourage us and tell us not to be concerned because we would receive amnesty, it was a political deed and he even promised us medals.

MS VAN DER WALT: And any of the General's other staff, did you meet them in prison?

DEON MARTIN: After we were sentenced, this would have been 1995, we were at Diepkloof and Eugene Terreblanche the Commander and some other officers visited us.

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes, what happened there?

DEON MARTIN: And during these visits Phil Kloppers told Eugene Terreblanche straight: "Listen I want to speak to the leader" in front of all these other people, we were all present there.  He told Terreblanche there: "Listen, I did not act on my own, I had an instruction from Japie Oelofse and Japie Oelofse did not deny this", Eugene Terreblanche said he was aware of that.

MS VAN DER WALT: You mention on page 37, paragraph 28 in your application
"During the visit Eugene Terreblanche made mention: he said: Commander, if everybody nationwide did what they had to do, you wouldn't have been in prison today"

DEON MARTIN: That's correct, that is what he said.  This was after Phil Kloppers told him: "Listen here, we did not act on our own".  There were many rumours that we acted on our own accord.

MS VAN DER WALT: When you spoke to him there, what do you think, was he aware of this instruction?

DEON MARTIN: Definitely.

MS VAN DER WALT: This deed, did you do this for your own convenience or why did you do this?

DEON MARTIN: The reason why we did it was to establish political resistance and not to let the general election continue.  And the acts which would take place nationwide, and we were told that it would take place nationwide and we cause a revolution in this manner, we could install fear in the general public.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you believe that when you acted, did you believe that similar deeds would occur nationwide?

DEON MARTIN: That's what Kloppers told me and I believed him.

MS VAN DER WALT: The objectives of the AWB is set out in Annexure B under political objectives that you wished to reach and you've confirmed this?

DEON MARTIN: Yes, I have.

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Martin, if I understand your testimony, General Oelofse was the general commander, here he was the commander of the whole Witwatersrand, that included your area?

DEON MARTIN: That's right.

MR PRINSLOO: Are you aware that the leader of the AWB, Mr Eugene Terreblanche on the 26th of November 1993, had a meeting in Port Elizabeth and he mentioned a few aspects about the coming election and this was broadcast on TV, on the 8 o'clock news of the 26th of November?

DEON MARTIN: Mr Terreblanche delivered a speech at the hearing.  I can't remember what the content of this speech was.

MR PRINSLOO: If he would have said that he would make sure that there would be no election even by using the barrel of a rifle?

DEON MARTIN: No, he said this often.

MR PRINSLOO: You say that he said this often, was it your impression that Mr Terreblanche did not want this election to take place?

DEON MARTIN: Definitely.

MR PRINSLOO: And according to you, if the election did proceed, would the ANC and it's alliance, the SACP, have gained the upperhand?

DEON MARTIN: Definitely.

MR PRINSLOO: Was it acceptable for the AWB and other rightwing groups?

DEON MARTIN: Negative.

MR PRINSLOO: These acts of yours on this particular evening while you were dressed in uniform, you say that there were people who were searched, they were stopped, they were aware that you were AWB members?

DEON MARTIN: That's right.

MR PRINSLOO: Now according to you this message, after these persons were killed, would this have been carried over that this was the act of the AWB?