Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-03

FREDERIK CHRISTIAAN STEPHANUS SWARTS: If I understand the question correctly, the inquest docket was submitted to the Prosecutor and the Magistrate for a finding after all the necessary dockets were placed in it.

MR BLACK: So you have never looked at the copies have you, of the inquest report which was furnished to your legal representatives?

FREDERIK CHRISTIAAN STEPHANUS SWARTS: No, I haven't had a look at it.

MR BLACK: I would have imagined that they would have shown that to you, because did you make, you see we've only got lists here, we've got this two statements that is constantly being referred to, we've got the post-mortem reports, but is there any record of ammunition used by the Security Forces, anything to that effect, or was the only evidence placed before the inquest as to how and the Security Police acted, the statements of Mr Erwee and Mr Swarts?
	No record of how many cartridges you people used, what was found on the scene, etc?

FREDERIK CHRISTIAAN STEPHANUS SWARTS: I can't remember exactly what was contained in the inquest docket.

MR BLACK: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Actually you mean in the docket?

FREDERIK CHRISTIAAN STEPHANUS SWARTS: Yes, in the docket, that is correct.

ADV VISSER: We just must point out Mr Chairman, that there is no reason for us to assume that what we've got in this file, was the complete docket that came before the Magistrate.

CHAIRPERSON: That is why I am rephrasing Mr Black's question.

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman, all that I can say is that I was given assurance by the Attorney General that these documents were a complete set of documents in the inquest docket.  That is all.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Black, could you kindly, I would like to know because I want to concentrate on that, could you tell me what is the purpose of this question as far as amnesty is concerned, as far as this applicant is concerned?  What are you trying to convey to us, what is the purpose, do you want us to disbelieve him, what is the purpose of the questions?

MR BLACK: Mr Commissioner, what I am trying to get at is whether there has been a full disclosure, I am not trying to protect credibility or not, it would appear to me as I am saying for example, the photographs prima facie there appears to be evidence which has not been presented.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Black, you have been aware thereof, you are representing us.  Have you made enquiries where is Bester, would you call him as a witness, what is the position?

MR BLACK: This information has just come to hand during the course of the day.

ADV DE JAGER: Then I am afraid this case wasn't investigated before it was placed on the role for hearing?

MR BLACK: Mr Commissioner, all I can say is that as the Investigating Officer, if Mr Swart can't throw any light on it, then it doesn't and if to his knowledge as the Investigating Officer, no photographs were taken of the scene, and it would appear that Mr Erwee has also testified to that effect, then it would appear that no further purpose would be served by finding those photographs.

CHAIRPERSON: A full disclosure to whom, the full disclosure that you are complaining about, a full disclosure to who?  To us or to the inquest?

MR BLACK: First of all to the inquest area at the time, because that I think it has been canvassed with other witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, (indistinct).  I am just concerned about, I am surprised that some of your questions tend to deal with failure to make a full disclosure to the inquest and failure to investigate certain things properly at the scene and all that, we know that there hasn't been and we have been given the reason.
	The reason was that you know, there couldn't have been a full disclosure to the inquest, because that could have endangered the lives of some people.

MR BLACK: Yes.  So I don't want to pursue that further.  There is nothing further that I need to ask of this witness, Mr Chairman.

MR BLACK: .

CHAIRPERSON: Did you want to re-examine?

ADV VISSER: No thank you, Mr Chairman.

ADV VISSER: .

ADV VISSER: That is the case for this applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Swarts, you are excused.

FREDERIK CHRISTIAAN STEPHANUS SWARTS: Thank you Mr Chairman.