Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-15

MR LEWIN: Mrs Fourie we would like to welcome you.  We understand that you are now in Nelspruit or is it Witrivier?

MRS FOURIE: Witrivier.

MR LEWIN: Witrivier.  We are very pleased that you are here today and thank you for coming and you will be telling us about events that took place in September 1987.  Is dit so?  Is dit reg?

MRS FOURIE: Ja.

MR LEWIN: Please feel relaxed.  It is not an easy process that you are going through but it is something that a lot of people have done so you are amongst friends.  Please feel at ease and in your own time if you could tell your story.  Baie dankie.

MRS FOURIE: Thank you very much.  My deceased spouse, Johannes Petrus Fourie, was affiliated to the former Kwandebele police.  He was the commanding officer of the watch unit.  On Friday the 11th September 1987 he was appointed as the duty officer for that week.   At approximately 18h40 on the 11th September 1987 he received a telephone call where he informed me that there was a complaint which he had to attend to.  That Warrant Officer Kekane who was also affiliated to the watch unit, he had to meet him at Denalton.  His son, Sergeant Mark Fourie, who was working for the South African Police college in Pretoria
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at the time, had come home for the weekend to visit and he accompanied his father on this complaint.   According to my spouse, Warrant Officer Kekane would have taken him to the address of the complainant.  Hannes and Mark left at approximately quarter past eight that evening.  Later that evening people came to my house and came to bring me the news that my spouse and our son had been shot dead near Denalton.  According to information while they were en route the meeting place was changed because they were in radio contact according to information which we had.  It was changed to the place where they were shot dead.  According to information they were killed at close range with an AK47 in the vehicle shortly after they had stopped.  There were approximately 17 AK47 cartridges found on the scene.  It appears as though they were ambushed.  I would like to know who the person or persons are who committed this senseless deed and why.  If such person or persons did so out of their own motivation who the person or persons or organisation is who gave them instruction to do so and why.  As a result of this senseless deed which was committed I have been left financially embarrassed.  For the past nine years I had to do all the duties which a spouse is supposed to have done and had to work all these years in order to survive.  This traumatic experience is still with me and it still brings me a lot of pain and will continue to do so.  I also miss them and also the children who have remained behind have suffered.  Up to date I have been unable to obtain any answers from anyone as to why this was done and who was responsible for it.  I request that the person or persons or organisation and the reason for this senseless deed be made known.  Thank you very much.  
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MR LEWIN: Just one or two questions of verduidelik.  You say that Mark came on holiday from Pretoria, so he wasn't actually based here.

MRS FOURIE: No.

MR LEWIN: He was also a policeman.

MRS FOURIE: Yes, he was at the police college in Pretoria, based there as an instructor.  He was a sergeant.

MR LEWIN: If you could give us some, possibly more details about if you have any, about how there was this change in instructions.  They were called to was it originally called to the motel or was the motel where they ended up at?

MRS FOURIE: There were several phone calls made and they decided, as I could conclude, that they were going to meet at Denalton police station and then they left from there.
But according to information they were in contact with each other and they changed the meeting place and then it was supposed to be at a T-junction where they eventually met.

MR LEWIN: It was just an accident really that Mark was with your husband.

MRS FOURIE: Yes, he just accompanied his father.

MR LEWIN: But as an ambush I mean have you in the years subsequent, thinking about it, have you been able in any way to work out how this happened, how it would have been possible?

MRS FOURIE: I have thought a lot but I have never been able to come up with any answer to this question.  The question remains and there are several possibilities and it is difficult to say.

MR LEWIN: From what you tell us it must have been a very well planned operation if it was in fact deliberate and it was an ambush.
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MRS FOURIE: Yes.

MR LEWIN: So the people who planned it must have known where to contact your husband, where he was going, where he might go, how to contact him on the radio.  All of those must have been possible.

MRS FOURIE: Definitely.

MR LEWIN: Is there any reason that you yourself have arrived at for doing this to him?

MRS FOURIE: Could you please repeat the question.

MR LEWIN: Is there any reason you can come to to decide why this would happen to him, why he was chosen?

MRS FOURIE: No, because as far as I know he was not involved in any activities, he just did his work.
He just did his job, that is all.

MR LEWIN: How old was he at the time, your husband?

MRS FOURIE: 42.

MR LEWIN: And Mark?

MRS FOURIE: 20.

MR LEWIN: And could you give us some indication please of what happened after they were shot.  I mean who investigated the case.  Was anything found in terms of a police report thereafter?

MRS FOURIE: They tried to follow up several clues but they were never able to find any concrete evidence. I think the initial investigation was done by the Kwandebele police and thereafter the docket was sent to Pretoria and then to Middelberg and then to Nelspruit and I do not know exactly where it ended up.  But nobody could provide any answers or solutions to this problem and nobody has been charged.

MR LEWIN: The fact that these were, these 17 cartridges that were found, if they came from an AK was there any link
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there between AK and any other organisation?

MRS FOURIE: The murder weapon was found shortly thereafter. There was also a bomb explosion in Witbank and this murder weapon was found in possession of the accused for the bomb explosion and then it was proven that the murder weapon was the same one which was used in my husband's attack.

MR LEWIN: ... daar dood was.

MRS FOURIE: Three people were charged as a result of the bomb explosion and they could never prove that they had anything to do with it.

MR LEWIN: And were they a part of any organisation?

MRS FOURIE: I do not know.

MR LEWIN: Mrs Fourie thank you very much.  Perhaps there are other questions which some of my colleagues would like to put to you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mrs Fourie, we are talking about a period in our  history in this particular area as we have heard from many people which was very tense. Can you give us your perspective of what was happening in Kwandebele at the time.

MRS FOURIE: Yes.  There were a lot of riots back then and it seems that it came from 1986.  We got here in January 1987 and my husband was appointed as the station commander at Denalton.  I mean I worked there too.  And they were called out at night several times to try and combat riots and things like that.  And it was very tense and there was lots of activity in the area and they had to try and mediate with the people and try and do their job as best they could.

RUSSELL ALLY: And it was a very dangerous time to be a police officer or an army officer.  Would you agree with that?

MRS FOURIE: Yes, I think so.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were both you and your husband born in this area
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or did you come to work ....

MRS FOURIE: We were in Natal and we came here via transfer.  We were seconded to the Kwandebele police in January 1987.