Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-11

MR STRYDOM: Did you go back then to tell your wife and children that it was safe now to come out?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: And your wife, did she come out of the house with you?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Not a single one was left in the house or remained in the house, they all went outside.

MR STRYDOM: At that stage, could you still see the Police vehicles at Metal Box, when your wife came out?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.  They were still parked there.  They were still waiting for everyone amongst the attackers to arrive there and they would thereafter leave.

MR STRYDOM: Your wife must have seen, like you did according to you, some of the attackers and these vehicles?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: She only saw the vehicles at a distance, but she did not see the attackers.

MR STRYDOM: Could you still see the attackers?

CHAIRPERSON: At what stage?

MR STRYDOM: At the time his wife was now also outside, when she saw the military vehicles.  Could you still see the attackers?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There were some who were still on their way, because they were carrying items.

CHAIRPERSON: You are asking him about military vehicles?

MR STRYDOM: Sorry, I would just refer to the vehicles, the Police vehicles.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Da Silva, I would have thought you would have been the first one to complain.  Yes, very well.

MR STRYDOM: The Police vehicles that you are referring to, when you saw them, your wife saw them according to you?  You could still see attackers but she couldn't, is that what you are saying?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: My wife was more concerned with the children, she came out and she looked out for a while and then she went back into the house, to check on the children.

MR STRYDOM: Did you point the Police vehicles to her?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: She saw them for herself, I did not have to point them out to her.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say your wife was looking after the children, where were they, were they inside of the house or outside the house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: When they left the toilet, there was broken glass all over the floor.  My wife just went out momentarily to check outside and she went back to the ...  They did go out, but we had to stand guard, be aware if these people were still hiding somewhere and they are going to come back.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see - at a later stage?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, they did.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I see it is one o'clock, will this be an appropriate stage because I want to turn onto something else.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well, thank you.  We will take the adjournment and return at two o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: (still under oath)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: (continued)   Thank you Chairperson.  At the stage when you saw the "koyoco" outside your house, did you hear any people crying outside?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No.

MR STRYDOM: At a later stage did you hear people crying or not?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: After you saw the "koyoco" you sent your wife to go and hide, is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is correct and the children as well.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.  Is your wife's name Mary Baloyi?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: As it appears there, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You are aware that she testified during the criminal trial, is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: She testified in Pretoria, I was not there.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the answer?

INTERPRETER: She testified in Pretoria, I was not there.

CHAIRPERSON: Did your wife testify at the criminal trial?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, there was a criminal proceeding or criminal prosecution that was going on in Pretoria, I think that could have been the one.

MR STRYDOM: At the stage when the attack on your house started, your wife must have been in the bathroom for some time, hiding?  Is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I said when they attacked or as they were just about to attack, I instructed my wife to prepare the children and take them to the toilet where they had to hide.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but you testified already and I don't want to repeat my questions but that was the stage when you saw the "koyoco" outside?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I said the "koyoco" came first and the noise was a distance away, it was still at Bafokeng and it came moving slowly until it grounded to a halt in front of my house.   From then it moved to the tree at Amatola Street.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, so apart from seeing the "koyoco" in front of the house, you heard it coming along, is that what you are saying?

MR LAX: He said he heard a noise, Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: Well, the noise you heard, what noise was that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It was a noise of people whom I thought perhaps were comrades, because they used to sing all the time, or most of the time.

MR STRYDOM: And then you sent your wife to go and hide herself and the children?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I did not send her at that time, no, not at that time.  We were hearing this noise all together, I only sent her away when we started hearing windows being shattered.  Not windows at my homestead, but windows in those two houses.  That is when I actually could now make out as to who these people were.

MR STRYDOM: So at the stage when your house was attacked, your wife was hiding?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: When my house was attacked, I had already told them to hide in the toilet.

MR STRYDOM: Apart from the fact that you told her, was she still sitting next to you in the dining room or not or in the sitting room, sorry, in the sitting room or not?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: She had been trying to take the children to sleep.  Had she been found doing that, perhaps they could have killed them all.

MR STRYDOM: What are you testifying that she had tried to put the children to sleep at this stage?  What do you mean by that?  I thought you said earlier on that you told her to hide herself and the children?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: We had a small baby and the baby was three weeks old, and there were children as well.  Some of them were woken up actually.

MR STRYDOM: Can you state today where your wife was at the stage your house was attacked?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: You see, I don't know how to put it because you don't know my house.  She was standing in the kitchen and she heard this noise when the Buwa and the Victor households were being attacked, then she was standing in the corridor and when they knocked the gate, that is when the gate was knocked down, I told her to take the children to the toilet.

MR STRYDOM: But at that stage you already told her that you saw a Police vehicle outside or a "koyoco"?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: I want to put to you, your wife, when she testified in Pretoria at the criminal trial, she said nothing that you told her that you saw a "koyoco" outside.  She doesn't mention it at all.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I am hearing this from you.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, just for record purposes, I am going to refer to Volume 22 of the typed criminal record.

CHAIRPERSON: Just before we get to that, Mr Baloyi, it would be very helpful if you would answer the questions directly.   If the answer is yes, you say yes, if it is no, you say no.  Do you understand that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I understand that.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I just want to get this clear.  When you saw the "koyoco" outside, you told your wife that the attackers are here, is that right?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I told her.

CHAIRPERSON: And you told them that they must hide, they must go into the toilet and hide?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I said they should prepare themselves to go and hide in the toilet.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.   Did she go immediately after that warning, to the toilet?