Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-29

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: What would you like me to explain.

MR WILLS: Okay, if you could just tell the committee, in as much detail as you can remember, what your involvement was in that matter.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: Okay.  My involvement in that particular case, Mandla and Rita came to me and they told me that there is a mission which has to be carried out and I accompanied them.  They first pointed the person to me and then I went to Sibisi Nhlanhla.  I asked him to be involved in the mission.  Therefore, we left to carry out that mission.  We entered the Joshua Doore.  That is where we found him and we shot him.

MR WILLS: The Nhlanhla you refer to is that Mr Sibisi, the second applicant?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Were there, I want you go into a little bit more detail than that.  I want you to tell the committee exactly what happened prior to the incident occurring, the planning that was made, the way that you were transported to and from the scene up to the point of your arrest.

CHAIRPERSON: Is any of this in dispute?  I am asking the other, not you.  Mr Mpshe, do you dispute any of this version as set out in the affidavit?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you?

MR MIRANDA: No, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: So you would not object to Mr Wills leading his witness on these points?

MR MIRANDA: No, Mr Chairman.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: That is on the factual aspect, not, there maybe some dispute as to precisely what each person was responsible for, but the fact of how they travelled and things of that nature ...

MR WILLS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ... you are not disputing.

MR WILLS: Is it correct that prior to this operation Rita and Mandla came to your home and that they told you that they wanted this particular person, Arnold Lolo Lombo, assassinated as he was an IFP warlord?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.  He was an IFP member and he was also considered a warlord who had killed a lot of ANC members.

MR WILLS: Is it correct that together with Rita and Mandla on the 30th of October you went to Sibisi's house, picked him up and then you met other people at Henley Dan just outside of Edendale?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: Yes, that is correct.  That is what happened.

MR WILLS: Who gave you the firearms in order to conduct the mission?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: We got the arms from Mandla.  There were two 9mm.  One was given to me and the other one to Sibisi.

MR WILLS: Do you remember getting into a combi and being driven by two other persons into town in order to conduct the mission?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: Yes, I remember.

MR WILLS: Do you remember who was driving the car and who the other person in the car was?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: It was Johnny Sithole and Kokleese Dlamini.  Phineus, I mean Phineus Dlamini.  I only knew their name after we arrested.

MR WILLS: Right, those two persons you have, obviously, come to know subsequent to this.  Those are the third and the fourth applicants in respect of this matter.  Is that correct?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Yes, they drove you down to town and you indicated that it was just you and Mr Sibisi who actually carried out the hit.  Is that correct?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the committee who actually shot Mr Lombo?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: It is Nhlanhla Sibisi, shot him.

MR WILLS: Do you know how many shots were used in this hit, how many shots were fired?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: One shot.

MR WILLS: Did you know from what range the shot was fired?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: It was at point blank range.

MR WILLS: From the evidence you have given it appears to me clearly that you were in common purpose with Mr Sibisi to conduct this hit.  You also wanted to kill Mr Lombo, in other words.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You then ran out the shot and shortly thereafter the four of you were arrested in a combi outside of the Alexandria Road Police Station.  Is that correct.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, do you know why Mr Lombo was killed?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: Yes, I know.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the committee.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: I would say that he killed a lot of ANC members and he harassed a lot of people and he was always in company of the police.  We thought maybe he had licence to kill the way he use to kill people.  That is the reason why we quickly decided that we should eliminate him and we thought that was a right thing to do, to eliminate him, because he was harassing the community.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say "harassing the community" do you mean everybody in the community or was he harassing the ANC people?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: I am referring particularly to the ANC.

MR WILLS: You were then arrested and held in custody for some time, having been refused bail.  You then escaped from custody.  Can you give the committee the details as regards to this escape.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: In prison I use to have visitors, people like Mandla.  One of those days I discussed with them.  It was clear that we are not going to get bail.  We did not get bail.  Therefore, I personally planned, I decided that I shall break my finger so that they can take me to hospital.  I knew that they do not have bone doctors in prison.  I knew when I broke my finger they will take me to hospital outside.  That happened.  It so happened that I call Mandla before, the day before I was to be taken to hospital.  I broke my finger.  We needed to have a password, LOD, that is life or dead.  I knew that someone was coming to pick me up. We also arranged for transport and if someone had to come and collect me they have to use the password.
	When I arrive at Eden Hospital, I asked to enter the toilet.  I entered the toilet.  When I got out of the toilet I pushed one of the police aside and he fall and I started running.  I got into the car.  After someone have passed using the very same password that I knew, I got into that car and we ran away in the car.  They took me to J Section at Mbali.  That is where I stayed the night and I went to Durban in one of the ANC members home.  Therefore, after that our regiments were met that I should go to Chesterville.  That is where I found Sibisi and other comrades.  I stayed there.  Later I left with some cadres, three of them, those whom I found at Chesterville.  
	They left us at the border where we had to cross.  They were given money for food.  We were told that we have to get some transport to Mazanie in Swaziland.  We went to Mbabane and they took us to some houses where they accommodate refugees.  After that they took us to Matsape Airport and we flew to Zambia.

MR WILLS: Did you later end up in the ANC Mgagao military base in Aringa region, Tanzania?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: May you please repeat your question.

MR WILLS: Did you later end up at the ANC military base, Mgagao, that is M G A G A O, in Aringa region in Tanzania?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: Yes, that is where I ended up, Aringa region in Tanzania.  That is where I was trained.

MR WILLS: And I take it that you continued with your military training at this place and returned to South Africa after the democratic elections in April 1994?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You were then integrated into the South African National Defence Force and you remained there until your arrest in respect of this matter.

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Just, what rank did you have when you were in the Defence Force?

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: I was a Lieutenant.

MR WILLS: Now, at the time you made this application, at the time you made this application you were in custody.  Is that not so and you later secured the bail and you are now out on bail in respect of these charges?  Is that correct

SIPHO W MOTAUNG: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now that the elections have come, how do you feel about the death of Mr Lombo?