Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

ADV BOSMAN: But no, my question is that when you told the generals that they must come and see you, your primary purpose was to discuss the communication problems with them. You were actually there to discuss the bomb planting with your men. Was this a problem that you wanted to discuss with them or would you just discuss the communication and then the bombs?

MR PRINSLOO: We would have discussed it, yes. It is logically.

ADV BOSMAN: Was this on the agenda? You wanted to talk to them about the communication and the bombing?

MR PRINSLOO: Well everything that I would convey to them if I had a radio system concerning the logistics and the workings of the camp. Everything I would have communicated for them.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you

ADV GCABASHE: Yes now I am interested in that. That communication, you know you use the word communication. You didn't want to talk to them about a radio that wouldn't work. That is not why you wanted to talk to them. You would deal with your technician on that aspect. You wanted to talk to them about the substance of what you were doing there. That is what you wanted to communicate with them over the radio. So they came across physically so that you could communicate whatever that was to them and get their feedback. You had a long meeting. What is it that you were communicating to them? What were those discussions?

MR PRINSLOO: It was about everything that happened in the camp. The actions that were executed at that stage. It was about communication and various other aspects, logistics.

MR BRACHER: Mr Prinsloo in this hearing we are talking about 4 bombs, the Johannesburg bomb, the Germiston bomb, the Jan Smuts bomb and I want to group them together - the pipe bombs.  Now in order to decided to those bombings how many General staff decisions and meetings were held?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I cannot remember. There were various meetings.

MR BRACHER: Did you have a special meeting at which it was decided you now want an international incident and you must bomb Jan Smuts airport?

MR PRINSLOO: No, there was not a specific meeting for that. It was conveyed to us that we had to make international news.

MR BRACHER: How was that decision taken by the AWB?

MR PRINSLOO: It had the approval of the Generals in staff because they visited me and during their visit I conveyed this to them and we discussed this.

MR BRACHER: Now that is the point I am getting to. We have now got two meetings. One two weeks before and one with that visit. Now who was on that visit? Just give me the names of the people who came on that visit.

MR PRINSLOO: The people who came to visit me at the game farm?

MR BRACHER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: It was General Roodt, Cruywagen, General Ackerman, Dirk Ackerman. Under correction now General Ackerman. There were at least three members.

MR BRACHER: You said to us now that when decisions are taken Mr Eugene Terreblanche was always present. Was he there?

MR PRINSLOO: At the game farm?

MR BRACHER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: No.

MR BRACHER: Were they conveying to you a decision taken by the General staff or did you have a meeting there which decided you wanted an international incident?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I accepted that it was generally discussed.

CHAIRPERSON: If it was discussed in general would you have been part of that meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: No, they wouldn't have called me in.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you not part of the Generals in staff?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes I was.

CHAIRPERSON: So in other words where would this have been discussed then before it came to you?

MR PRINSLOO: In Ventersdorp at a certain stage.

CHAIRPERSON: But who would have attended this meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson it would have been members who was in Ventersdorp who was close to Ventersdorp. It could have been at a member or two or three did not attend this meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not make those decisions there at that stage, the 4 of you?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, at the game farm but with approval.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose approval?

MR PRINSLOO: It would have received approval of the whole Generals in staff and Terreblanche.

CHAIRPERSON: You said that you thought, you are not sure?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I can with certainty say.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you as a member of the Generals in staff, were you present at a meeting where it was decided that it is necessary that an international incident must take place at possibly the airport?

MR PRINSLOO: I was at such a meeting, yes at the game farm.

CHAIRPERSON: And who was present there?

MR PRINSLOO: The generals that came to visit me.

CHAIRPERSON: So you do not know if there was another meeting where that decision was made?

MR PRINSLOO: We would never have come up with a proposal if it did not carry the approval of the rest of the Generals in staff.

CHAIRPERSON: But if it was discussed before and you had to be at that meeting or at least being invited to that meeting because you are a member of the Generals in staff.

MR PRINSLOO: They would have notified me, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So, they did not.

MR PRINSLOO: Well these people did come and give me a message, answers

CHAIRPERSON: You accepted it was a message. You did not know it was a message.

MR PRINSLOO: I cannot with certainty say, no.

MR MALAN: The visit that you are referring to am I right when I say that you said it was a Generals in staff meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: You can call it that.

MR MALAN: No, that is what you said. Were you present at such a meeting where the question regarding the international incident was discussed? You answered - it is not me who said it, you answered: "Yes I was at such a meeting during that visit they again asked who was present. You said Roodt, Cruywagen and under correction you think Ackerman and yourself.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR MALAN: That is your definition of a Generals in staff meeting.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: So the Generals in staff did not have a quorum - not at that stage, at any stage?

MR PRINSLOO: At previous meetings there was or there had to be a quorum but at that stage we were in a process of warfare and we just saw that it was not necessary to have a quorum.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you say that the leader of the AWB was aware of that decision when it was taken?

MR PRINSLOO: It would definitely be conveyed to him after the decision was made but I cannot say that at that specific moment knew about it.

MR MALAN: How can you say that it definitely be conveyed to him? Were you not even then or didn't you even convey information to him?

MR PRINSLOO: What didn't I convey to him?

MR MALAN: The pipe bombs, the Johannesburg bomb you did not report back to him. Why do you expect others to do it then?

MR PRINSLOO: When did I not report back?

MR MALAN: Did you go and tell the leader that: "We implemented the Johannesburg bomb"?

MR PRINSLOO: At various opportunities I drove through and I reported back to the Generals in staff and Eugene Terreblanche.

MR MALAN: And did you do this between the Sunday and the Wednesday?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes at various opportunities. That is why I needed these people to rectify my communication because General Cruywagen was in charge or put in charge by the Generals in staff.

CHAIRPERSON: When was the first time that you went through to Mr Terreblanche and spoke to him after the Bree Street bomb?

MR PRINSLOO: It was the Sunday and then.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the first time the Sunday after the Bree Street bomb?

MR PRINSLOO: The Sunday was the 24th it had to be after the Bree Street bombs.

CHAIRPERSON: Now I am asking when was the first time after the Bree Street bomb?

MR PRINSLOO: That was the Sunday when I went through.

CHAIRPERSON: And what time did that bomb go off?

MR PRINSLOO: It was early the morning.

CHAIRPERSON: So on that day you went back to Terreblanche?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What time?

MR PRINSLOO: Under correction, it was not too late.