Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

MR MBANDAZAYO: Let's go to paragraph 11
"On my capacity of regional commissar charged with getting the ball rolling operationally and intelligence wise, I recommended that the personal in the name of comrade Bheki, Vido and Togela Mlaswisa must be deployed in my area of responsibility.  Due to the fact that comrade Skumiso was my commander, he received recommendation directly from me, after which he did the necessary consultation and later approved it for execution"
	Now my question, and what I want you to clear for this Committee, was that:
"On my capacity as regional commissar charged with the task of getting the ball rolling operationally and intelligence wise"
Can you explain to the Committee what that means?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.
"To get the ball rolling"
was-  merely tries to say, as the regional commissar part of my functions included logistic functions, included the intelligence function like the information collection or data collection, as you may call it in civilian terms, and the ...[indistinct] of the security situation in my area of responsibility.
	And thereafter I give feedback to my senior commanders, particularly in this case, comrade Skumiso and make recommendations so that at the end of the day operations can take place.

MR MBANDAZAYO: With particular regard to this one, golf club, can you tell the Committee what data or information you collected and what role you played in doing that?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: It was a small division.  There was a lot of other targets that we had so it was my duty to collect information from them and keep my senior commanders up to date with regard to the developments operationally and security wise.
	At some stage it was my responsibility, when I saw it appropriate, to make a recommendation such as that equipment must be deployed in the area for this and that, personnel must be deployed in this area, looking at the challenges that we have operationally speaking, looking at the logistical resources that were available to our present organisation.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, I think my question is still, with regard to this particular operation, can you tell the Committee how you went about collecting data regarding
the target, that is the golf club itself.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  Regarding the golf club, the method of information collection that I did was that I went to the golf club, was there playing golf for practices and as I was one of the bagmen I used to converse with them, build up the cover story that I was a student, I was a student five years back, my parents couldn't manage fees so I'm in a drive to collect some fees for me.
	And then, there were a lot of other black guys who did that there, we were given 50c, some paid 20c, ridiculous enough, R2.  So I got to know everything, every development and I was giving feedback to my commanders almost after every two days.  Used to go the Transkei or comrade Skumiso used to come to this side if I have information that I cannot relate over the telephone.  That is how we managed, that is why the information we had was accurate.
  	In fact, if I may add, after some time, because I presented interesting stories, comrade Lester, if it is worth mentioning for the conjunction of the TRC, but comrade Lester could not believe for instance, when I tell him: "Comrade you see I was given 20c for having carried that bag the whole day", he couldn't believe it.
	He came down to King William's Town and then we went together, the two of us, and if - but I don't know if it's Mr who?, but there was a certain gentlemen there if I remember very well, what I understand is that he was either an official or secretary or what but he had an office right in the club there.  
	He used to come there and we used to talk to him.  That's the person from which we got that there will be a party on such and such a day and that is how we got that information.  So he came down and I remember his first payment was 25c.

MR MBANDAZAYO: May I proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: Before you do, can you tell us who Bheki and Vido are?  See paragraph 11.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  There mere fact that they are here, it means that they have not applied for amnesty, that is the first point.  The second point is that the names I can recall, know about them, I don't know if they are real names and I have just recalled that comrade Bheki was also Jerry and Vido, it ends there, there's nothing else that I know.
	Perhaps if the administration of APLA at that point in time which was under the late comrade Power or the former captain Ngigelani, he died in certain conditions in Cape Town, I mean, if I look at this big file there is also something which he alleges.  Ama policeman forced him to write at a time when he was ...[intervention]

MR MBANDAZAYO: Just the names.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Now he was a person who was in charge of administration, who had record of the names and what and what or even perhaps some other intelligence, I mean officers, for one reason or another they could have that, I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Just to follow up on Mr Chairman's question on Bheki and Vido, can you tell the Committee how it was possible that you know Skumiso Nxunuba, the real name Skumiso and Togela Mlangwesa?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Comrades Skumiso Nxunuba was also my friend, close friend so through that we knew each other, he was even known by my parents and I'm even known by his parents.  And Togela Mlangwesa, I once lived at his home, I think for something like a month ...[indistinct].  That is how it is possible that I know them.

UNKNOWN: On what basis then would you recommend, as you say in paragraph 11, the names of Bheki and Vido as being members you wanted to see carry out this mission with you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  Particularly Bheki and Vido, I think I conducted some training with them, training recruits and that is how I came to know them, under those circumstances.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I proceed to page 17, paragraph 14, especially paragraph 13 almost the last portion
"After we had found accommodation we had frequented, frequently at various places, comrades Skumiso was the commander of the unit and I co-ordinated and arranged these meetings.  I was assisted in finding accommodation by Longsumzwonk Entindele"
	Can you tell the Committee how did ...[inaudible] of Longsumzwonk Entindele and how did he assist you in finding accommodation?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  When opening in a new area, because I was the first person from the department of operations to be deployed there, you would be given by some other APLA members who had done some sort of ground work, a contact, some person to work with who can, let me say, guide you in as far as certain things which are of critical importance are concerned.
	So comrade Entindele was the person to whom I was referred to or a person who was given as a contact in the area, so obviously he had a role to play and also, he was also my teacher.

CHAIRPERSON: Your teacher?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: School teacher Mr Chairman, he was a school teacher.

ADV SANDI: Whilst you are there Mr Xundu, you've mentioned that Mr Entindele was your teacher, did he have any influence on the development of your political thinking?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Paragraph 14
"before the attack we went to see the target in order to acquaint ourselves, that is myself and Skumiso, and later on took the rest of the unit on the day of the attack, for final reconnaissance"
	Now you have already told the Committee that you went there with comrade Skumiso Nxunuba, can you then explain:
"and later took the rest of the unit, on the day of the attack, for final reconnaissance or the area"?