Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, it's a very succinct account I think and   given that you had to do it at the last moment, unprepared, it is masterly.   Thank you very much. Bongani Finca?
REV.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you, your Grace. I have only one question to raise and   I would like to base it on the concluding comments that you have made where   you say that the commission is not going to be able to deliver a reconciled   nation at the time when we stop working sometime next year. There are some people   in this country who think that the commission should be able, in June or July   next year, to say , "Here is a reconciled South Africa". You are saying   that we point the way to the nation that this is the route that this nation   must take in order to travel on the road that will lead it ultimately to reconciliation   and that way is owning up to what has happened and disclosing the truth. On   the religious communities that are represented in the WCRP, do you find that   there is a common trend or commonality in terms of the religious beliefs on   the understanding of reconciliation, founded on truth, which is a solid base   on which the religious communities can co-operate in taking the process of reconciliation   further after the commission has finished its work?

DR F AUERBACH: Yes, I do think that there is a common base. Maybe in order   to talk on that I could quote from a document that we did draw up and in order   not to waste time, I will just say that looking at the four major religions   in the main; Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism, and I am sure others   won't be different. When you put it together, you find that people say if you   want reconciliation there are seven steps and in listing them, I ask you to   think of obviously only some of these can fall within the ambit of your commission,   the rest has to be taken up by society in general. But if we look around the   world and see the imperfections of reconciliation of past conflicts, people   seem to have incredibly long memories. I personally always encapsulate that   by saying don't blame me for what my grandfather did, whatever he may have done.   But humanity does not work like that. People get blamed for things that their   particular communities did generations ago. However, the seven steps are becoming   aware of having done wrong; publicly acknowledging the wrong doing; expressing   remorse for the action or lack of action; making restitution for the harm caused;   requesting forgiveness from the harmed person; making a sincere commitment not   to repeat the wrong doing; and accepting forgiveness where it is offered. 
We found that all religions will agree on that and most religions will tell   you that if you don't do them all, you're not going to get there and I believe   that it's a task for South Africa as a whole to go on working at that. Even   the last one accepting forgiveness where it is offered is sometimes a very   difficult one and I know your commission experienced that in individual cases.   There are religions that say that it's a religious duty to accept forgiveness   when it is offered, but we also accept that having our human failings, people   find it very difficult to forgive. So that if we take all these steps, public   acknowledgement of what happened, that the commission has done wonderfully.   It is now addressing the issue of some making some restitution and given my   own background as a Jewish person alive at the time the holocaust, I know a   little bit about efforts in the past made about restitution. But those are only   some aspects of reconciliation and I think we need to teach South Africa that   this is a long process that we've got to work at. But I think one of the major   problems of our reconciliation efforts as I see it is that we don't actually   know a great deal as communities of the experiences of other communities in   South Africa in the past and therefore we often talk to each other without knowing   enough of the background, as I put it; What's at the back of the head? And I   believe that it's a very difficult thing to learn that, and what we really need   to do is to spend more time listening to one another. But our whole society   is still partly organised so that we don't actually meet many people of different   groups, so that in a sense, my answer is yes, WCRP will go on working at it   and so will other people. We are a small group and we have to date made some   important impact, but not nearly as much impact as perhaps we should have done   and if we have greater capacity, we can perhaps do more capacity and determination.   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Mgojo?
REV.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes Sir, I am very much impressed by the work the WCRP, because   I knew it when I was in the SACC, but the question I would like to ask. You   have said so many good things about the conferences and other things which I   applaud you for, but what strategy or programmes do you have for the WCRP which   is going to help even the ordinary members down there to understand what you   want to achieve. There is a tendency sometimes for the faith communities and   churches to think that they have achieved something when they are dealing with   things up there on the leadership level, and then the people down here don't   hear this message because there is not strategy been set to touch the very people   so that the change takes place down there. Is there any strategy set by this   group?

DR F AUERBACH: I think I have to say that we don't have a strategy for that,   what you might call mass outreach, that we found has worked on a significant   level. We do bring people in ourparticularly in our three chapters in   Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durban, we do bring them together, but they are   small groups of people and we have not yet found a way of mass appeal and what   you are asking is to get to large numbers of people. Now I'm not sure that WCRP   as it is structured at the momentthere are other members in the audienceI   don't know whether they have different views. We find it difficult to reach   mass audiences. Even at the talking level, I mentioned that we issued an appeal   on reconciliation for last December and we sent it all over the place, but it   wasn't picked up. So perhaps we are not as good as we should be on thatmaking   the message penetrate larger numbers of people. Perhaps it comes from the fact   that our influence as an organisation on large religious structures has not   ever yet been substantial enough. I'm sorry, that's a bit of a negative message,   but I have to be honest about it. I did, after all, swear to tell the truth!

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Dr Auerbach. We are deeply grateful to you   for your contribution. Thank you. You may stand down. Call of Islam? Moulana   Ibrahim Bham is not going to be present today, I gather he is unwell. Dr Faried   Esack. Why do you want that? I thought we were friends until you went to England!
ADMINISTERS OATH.