Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-02

RUSSELL ALLY: You are also going to speak about Imbokhoto and give another perspective on Imbokhoto.  So please if you would give us your statement as briefly as possible.  Thank you.

MR MAHLANGU: I am happy to be given this opportunity.  The first thing, I want to start with this issue of Imbokhoto.  Imbokhoto was formed, it was formed at the King's place.  The co-ordinator of it was the King who was here and he said he should it be strengthened so that it can ultimately be Imbokhoto because Imbokhoto is a stone that was used to grind mielies for our grandfathers so that they can grow.  We said, yes, let us not reveal this, our Imbokhoto until we get the concern of the Government so that it can become a real Imbokhoto.  Yes, we got the Government into our hands.  It was in 1984 and within the Parliament Imbokhoto was discussed and it was passed.  That was the beginning of Imbokhoto.  Let me leave that chapter of Imbokhoto's formation.
 Let me come to the fighting between the Ndebeles and the people of Moutse.  The fighting that went on was brought about by the Central Government.  I think the Central Government brought the conflict between these two groups because it took power and it took Moutse to incorporate it under the Government of KwaNdebele.  Sikakwane was 
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reincorporated into Lebowa.  This was a shifting of places.  Now the people of Moutse were not happy, they did not want to be incorporated into KwaNdebele.  They started throwing stones to the cars, to the people who were working at Ndebele and the Ndebeles decided to move.  We went to Kwagga.  Everything was removed.  The people were provided even with tents.  
 I do not remember the date, but we were at Ciskei.  It was the celebration of Ciskei's independence.  The whole Cabinet of KwaNdebele was taken by a helicopter to go and attend the function.  I decided to take my car and on our way to Ciskei my car was burnt.  I was even showed a place where the Cabinet of KwaNdebele was sitting and they all arrived.  The whole Cabinet arrived and I greeted them by hands and they said, are you also here?  I said, yes, I am here.  They said, did you see the place clearly.  I said, yes and they asked me which one is better, is KwaNdebele better or is this Ciskei better?  I said, no, KwaNdebele is much better than Ciskei.  The King that has spoken earlier on said to me, please, support me in the Parliament.  He said to me we should take the independence because our area is more developed than this area.  I said to him, yes King, I will support you.  
 We came back and the issue started again.  He was the man behind this issue again.  S S Skosana was also there.  We approved or we accepted this issue.  We went to the community.  Everybody was responsible.  Each one of us had to go to a certain area and we went to the people.  We said we want to take the Government over, what do you say?  The people said to us, what does the King say?  We said to them we have not heard anything from the King.  We are going back MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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to him, but before we can do that we have to know how do you feel.  The whole community went along with us and we went back to the Parliament to report.  We said there is not one person who is against us taking power.  All of us agreed that we have to take power.  We went back to the King and the King was informed.  He gave us his full support and there was a photo taken where the King was signing.  You can be the Chief Minister or it can be the Cabinet.  Whether you like it or not you will never have power if the King has not signed the agreement.  Nobody would take power before the King would sign the separate development.  The King had the power to sign for the independence.  He was the rightful person to agree or disagree with the independence.  Well, the King agreed and a date was set.  
 What started fighting within the Ndebeles is the fact that during that time of 1985 there was a saying that there should be casinos in our area.  Ntoli came with his own plan.  The King came with his own plan of a casino.  The two of them were submitted to the Parliament.  We judged the two of them and we saw that the King's plan was too small and it was giving us little percentage of what we wanted.  We went to Ntolis and it was a very big plan and the percentages were very high and we passed Ntoli's plan.  The King that has just spoken before me said, listen guys, I have lost before because of you.  He said, you make me lose the son of a King and you just make an ordinary person to win.  He said to us, you like it or not, there is going to be fighting in KwaNdebele.  Whether you like it or not, there is going to be fire in KwaNdebele.  That is what he said.  We did not know what kind of fire was going to take place here.  In 1986 the things started.  
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 There was no comrade in KwaNdebele.  We were just Imbokhoto.  All of us, everybody here was Imbokhoto.  No one was not Imbokhoto.  No one was at opposition during those years.  In 1986 people started dividing themselves.  We were the Executive Officers on Tribal Authority.  One day we were in our meeting and we realised that, no, something terrible is going to happen here.  We could not predict the future, but we could hear, we could see that there was an underground movement taking place.  Then in 1986 in April we were in the Parliament.  I received a letter from the King.  The letter was telling me to appear before the King the next morning.
 The next morning I went to the King and I said to him, my Lord, I have a letter here and it is signed by you.  He said to me, James, I do not know the letter.  He said maybe some of the people who were with me might know.  James arrived and they told the King that they have called me.  They asked me who told me that James is going to hold a meeting at Mapotla that evening.  I said, no, I only heard that there was going to be a meeting and I decided to follow.  People went into the yard and James was with his car.  Three of us were not allowed to get into the meeting.  We tried to listen, but we could not hear anything that they were saying, but they were talking something.  Then we dispersed.  I was only called and told that they want me to be on their side when we go and take the power into our hands.  I said to them, no, I will not be in a position to involve myself.  I do not want to be found in such activities because in Bophututswana where I come from it was rumoured that I am a terrorist.  They have written the King a letter saying that I am a terrorist.  The Chairperson, S
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S Skosane, had a letter clearly stating that I am a terrorist.  What a terrorist is I do not know.  Even now I do not know what a terrorist is.  I do not even want to know what a terrorist is.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Mahlangu, I do not want to rush you off, but if we could move now to what actually happened to you, the violations which you say you experienced, the abductions and the attempted killing with petrol being thrown on you in an attempt to set you alight.  If we could move to those please.