Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: But you are unable to confirm whether you were actually a policeman already when you joined the Star or not?  In spite of these sort of, it seems the openness with which you are approaching this issue.  I mean I can't understand the difficulty around that.	But if there is a genuine difficulty, I will not compel you to disclose it if there is a genuine difficulty.

CRAIG KOTZE: Mr Chairman, on legal advise, I will be quite frank and open with you.  I was what is referred to in Intelligence circles as an agent in place.	In other words, I happen to already as I said in my submission, be an active soldier in the SADF doing camps quite openly, doing the same thing openly, but I was whilst I was a journalist, I was recruited into the SAP and became an agent.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, that was subsequent to joining the Star, because that seems to be your first position as a journalist.

CRAIG KOTZE: That is correct, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for that information.  Are there any other questions?  Mr Kotze, thank you very much.	You know it is important for us to engage in this kind of debate, so that we try and get to the bottom of things, and we try and understand what is going on and so on, not that we are putting people on the spot or whatever, you know, it is necessary for our purposes to have this kind of debate and we are quite happy and pleased that you came and that you are able to have engaged in this.	And that you have been quite open and frank around your activities and you have testified to in public and we thank you for that.

CRAIG KOTZE: Thank you Mr Chairman, if I may say that it has been a very worthwhile experience for myself in service of reconciliation in our country.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, and thank you to your legal team.
"SOUTH" &  "GRASSROOTS"

CHAIRPERSON: I am going to ask you to please, the members of the media, just to deal with those issues away from the podium there.  We are going to listen to the testimony of the representatives of "South" and "Grassroots".  It is Rashid Seria and Moegsien Williams and they are accompanied by Johnny Esau.	Gentlemen, good afternoon, a warm word of welcome to you from the best part of the country.  I assume that all three of you would be making an input or would Mr Seria only?  Oh, all three of you.  Then unfortunately I am going to administer the oath to all three of you, but I will do it jointly before we start.

RASHID SERIA: (sworn states)

MOEGSIEN WILLIAMS: (sworn states)
J

OHNNY ESAU: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: I am going to ask Hugh Lewin, to deal with this evidence.

MR LEWIN: Gentlemen I would like to welcome you here and to thank you especially for (a) for having come from that part of the country and (b) for being so patient with us.	What you have to say is very important and the fact that it comes at the end of the day is not any reflection at all.  You can see that we have been under considerable pressure and we will continue to be for the next day, but what we are trying to do is to cover as many facets of the media as possible and what you have to tell us, particularly about the alternative media in the Cape is very important.	So, if you could just please take us through your submission and then we will ask a few questions if necessary, thank you very much.