Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-25

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: You've told us that your husband went to work on the Friday, wearing these 
clothes.

MS NGQULUNGA: Yes, that is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: And I take it he did not come home that 
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JUDGE WILSON: 137

T C NGQULUNGA: evening?

MS NGQULUNGA: Yes, that is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: When did you discover that he had been killed?

MS NGQULUNGA: I discovered the following - on Saturday around 9 pm, when Captain van Dyk 
came and Engelbrecht to tell me that Brian was killed and he is in the mortuary.  When I asked as to what 
happened to him, they told me ANC attacked him.
	On Monday they came to fetch me and we went to the
mortuary where I located him and no one could stand firmly and look at him because he was brutally 
injured.

JUDGE WILSON: Did he have no clothes on then, on the Monday?

MS NGQULUNGA: He was covered with a sheet and we only saw his head because it was not 
covered.

JUDGE WILSON: ;	When did you next see him, his body dressed in these clothes that you've told 
us about?

MS NGQULUNGA: We clothed him on Friday evening, he was naked and that was after the post-
mortem when we saw him in the mortuary.  That is where we saw him, he was naked.

JUDGE WILSON: Would you know what had happened to his clothes, they were given back to 
you later, were they?

MS NGQULUNGA: Yes, I was given the clothes after the funeral.

JUDGE WILSON: Those are the clothes he had been wearing, not the clothes he was buried in?

MS NGQULUNGA: That is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: These clothes you were given were undamaged, perfectly clean, is that what 
you are saying?

MS NGQULUNGA: The suit was completely perfect, except the 
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JUDGE WILSON: 138

T C NGQULUNGA: pair of trousers, just in front right next to the zip, that's where there was a bullet hole, otherwise the whole 
suit was intact.

JUDGE WILSON: Thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Mpshe, any re-examination?

UNKNOWN: No re-examination, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO RE-

UNKNOWN: .

HASSAN MALL: Thank you very much, you are excused.

ADV DE JAGER: Did they also give you a shirt?

MS NGQULUNGA: Yes, they also gave me the shirt, everything,
even the shoes.

JUDGE WILSON: Who is "they" who gave you these things?

MS NGQULUNGA: The Garankua policemen.

HASSAN MALL: Yes, you are excused.

UNKNOWN: That will be all Mr Chairman in the Ngqulunga incident.  
	The next incident is as per schedule, the interrogation of Scheepers Morudi.  Mr Brian Currin is 
appearing for the victim in this incident.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, could you just afford me a short opportunity please?

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Mpshe, in this post-mortem report there is a reference to annexure A - I haven't got a 
copy of annexure A with the report, have you perhaps got it?  In the last instance of Mr Ngqulunga?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman I will check for the annexure and I think to save time, I will look for it and 
give it to members in chambers.  Thank you Sir.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, thank you, thank you for 
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 139

CAPT MENTZ: the opportunity.  There is something that I would wish to clear up in the evidence of Captain Mentz, just to 
make hundred percent sure about that.  Would it be possible for me to recall Captain Mentz just to testify 
about one aspect that flows from the evidence of this witness?

HASSAN MALL: Is it in connection with the Scheepers Morudi?

ADV DU PLESSIS: No, Mr Chairman in connection with the previous matter, in connection with 
Brian Ngqulunga.  I beg your pardon Mr Chairman, it is something that I just want to make hundred 
percent clear that that evidence I cannot 
recall that the witness gave that specific piece of evidence
and I deem it important after the questions which have been asked now.

HASSAN MALL: Well, you may call him.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.

WILLEM WOUTER MENTZ: (s.u.o)

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Mentz, there is only one specific 
aspect which I would like to clarify with you, did you specifically see when Mr Ngqulunga was shot, did 
you see that yourself specifically, when Captain Bellingham shot him?

CAPT MENTZ: Mr Chairman, yes, if I remember correctly he was shot in the head.  I can remember 
vaguely there was something said that they wouldn't have to recognise him by his face because they could 
look at his fingerprints, but his identification had to be delayed.  I think the magazine was emptied on his 
head, I am not sure whether Piet Botha also shot him with a pistol, but that could be so.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is the only question that I had.
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JUDGE WILSON: 140

HASSAN MALL: Any questions Mr Mpshe?

UNKNOWN: No questions Mr Chairman, thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Very well, you are excused thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED.

JUDGE WILSON: I notice from the post-mortem report that he had fractured first to third ribs on 
both sides of the body and of both clavicles, could this have been caused by the assault you and the others 
launched onto him?

CAPT MENTZ: It could be so Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: And he had a collapsed lung and a
lacerated upper lobe of the left lung, a ruptured heart, could this all have been a result of your assault?

CAPT MENTZ: Mr Chairman, when he was lying in the back of the vehicle, we sat on top of him.  I am 
not a medical officer, but I, it is quite possible.

JUDGE WILSON: Ruptured small intestines, ruptured bladder, is this also all possible as a result 
of your assault?

CAPT MENTZ: It is possible Mr Chairman.  As I told you we sat on him.

JUDGE WILSON: From my experience of post mortems there was considerably more done to the 
body than sitting on it to have caused all these injuries. You can't comment?

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman the witness wanted to answer the question.

HASSAN MALL: Yes please allow him to do so.

CAPT MENTZ: Mr Chairman, as I've already testified from the time that he was taken out of the car, he 
fell on the ground, we were on top of him, it was not a pretty sight, he
was overcome, he was attacked and assaulted to make him lose PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

JUDGE WILSON: 141

CAPT MENTZ: consciousness as quickly as possible.  We came down on him with our knees, we had no mercy, he was 
subjected as quickly as possible, so that we could get him into the kombi and get away.  It was a public 
road, we didn't want to be spotted there, it happened very quickly and it was very serious.  So these things 
could all have happened.  It is so, I can't say that it wouldn't have happened.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.  Have you seen the document which is supposed to be Annexure A to the post-
mortem?

ADV DU PLESSIS: I have seen the post-mortem.

HASSAN MALL: No, the Annexure A.

ADV DU PLESSIS: It doesn't seem that - can you just refer me a little bit closer Mr Chairman.

HASSAN MALL: I am told that the Annexure A to the post
-mortem.

ADV DU PLESSIS: I haven't got an Annexure A.

HASSAN MALL: If you look at the second page, in answer to question 4, paragraph 4,  it says," body of a 
Black male", then it says,
		"Big laceration on the right side of the face with fractured mandible.  Right facial bones 
on right side of the skull anterially with protruding bones.  Multiple wounds as 
numbered on Annexure A".

ADV DU PLESSIS: I don't have Annexure A.

HASSAN MALL: You don't have it.

ADV DU PLESSIS: I don't know, it seems that you also don't have it?

HASSAN MALL: No, we don't.

JUDGE WILSON: If you look at the first page - we've got the typed copy where it says,
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GAUTENG: 142

CAPT MENTZ: "Due to brain injuries and hyper-volemic shock from multiple injuries.   From gunshot 
wounds."
So it may well be that the post-mortem indicates that all the injuries are from gunshot wounds.