Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-20

MR JANSEN: No, that is the application for the third applicant, thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR CORNELIUS: Thank you Mr Chairman, I call the fourth applicant, Snyman.

MR SNYMAN: (sworn states)

MR CORNELIUS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Snyman, you are an applicant in terms of Act 34 and you have arranged an application, and it is before this Committee?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: This application was handed in before the closing date and was correctly liaised at the TRC in Cape Town?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson
... (tape ends) ...

MR CORNELIUS: ... of Act 34 of 1995, by that you were in the service of the State, the previous government, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: And you will give evidence here today to show the Committee that you had acted in the bona fide belief that you were combatting the total onslaught on the government, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: And furthermore, you will tell the Committee that you had a political motive with your actions?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: You were a footsoldier to put it in that manner?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: You were in the service of the South African Police and you were deployed at C-Section, C10 or as known in general, Vlakplaas under the command of Colonel Eugene de Kock, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: And it is now common cause that during 1992 you received an instruction from Colonel De Kock that you and the so-called Snor Vermeulen, the fifth applicant, received the instruction to collect weapons with the purpose of delivering it in East London, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: Where did you collect these weapons from?

MR SNYMAN: Some of the weapons came from the stockpile that was stocked at our offices and others came from other weapons caches, and people who had personal weapons, or who kept personal weapons.  These are all weapons that originated from Ovamboland.

MR CORNELIUS: The tin stores were at the Police College, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: You received a specific instruction to remove the serial numbers from these weapons?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: And you had a large amount as it was described by the previous applicant, Mr Eugene de Kock?  You prepared this large amount of weapons and took two bakkies and transported them to East London, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: And it is also common cause from previous evidence that these weapons were delivered to Colonel Craig Duli?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: In order to carry out a coup in Transkei?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: When you acted, did you believe that you were acting against the enemy of the previous government?

MR SNYMAN: That is so Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you believe that with this action, you will stop the ANC/SACP alliance?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: You received your normal salary during this time?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you receive any S&T monies during this time?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, we were given an amount of R200-00 to pay for our accommodation and food while we were in East London.

MR CORNELIUS: Were any promises or donations made or any form of reward offered to you if you participated in this operation?

MR SNYMAN: No, no promises were made to us.  As you might have heard, that afterwards it was said that if the coup would be successful, then there would be a plot and then we would have to live in Transkei, which was said jokingly, and we did not take it serious.

MR CORNELIUS: If you say it was said jokingly, you mean a joke was made?

MR SNYMAN: Yes Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: So you acted on the instruction?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, I did.

MR CORNELIUS: And what would have happened if you disobeyed the instruction?

MR SNYMAN: I would have been transferred probably and I would have had problems in the Police Service.

MR CORNELIUS: In previous evidence it was read to you that Gen Van der Merwe said in the London bomb hearing that such an official, if he disobeyed any instruction, he would be in a very difficult position in the Service?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, that is correct.  I would have been marked as a person who was a security risk for the Security Forces.

MR CORNELIUS: You were present when I asked Colonel Eugene de Kock in Port Elizabeth about the Motherwell incident, and he answered to a question of mine that it was possible that a person might be eliminated if he was regarded as a security risk for the Vlakplaas Unit?

MR SNYMAN: That is so Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you act bona fide in all respects?

MR SNYMAN: I did.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you act out of any malice or any other feelings towards Holomisa and the Transkei in this?

MR SNYMAN: No Chairperson, I acted because it was in the scope of my duty.

MR CORNELIUS: You apply for amnesty and we will take that up in argument, but amongst others conspiracy to commit murder, the Weapons Act, public violence and such, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR CORNELIUS: And any other offence which might emanate from the delivery of this weapons for the coup?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: And finally, an aspect which was not mentioned before this Committee, but you worked on a need to know basis, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: It was not expected of you to question an order?

MR SNYMAN: No, it was not.

MR CORNELIUS: Thank you Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Cornelius.  Mr Lamey, do you have any questions to ask the witness?
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR LAMEY

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Snyman, the action which is being dealt with here, the provision of weapons for the coup, did you carry out those instructions because it was part of your task, or because you believed you would receive a reward?

MR SNYMAN: I did it because I believed it was part of my duties.

MR HATTINGH: You say the statement from Mr De Kock about a piece of land, was a joke?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, it was.

MR HATTINGH: You did not take him seriously?

MR SNYMAN: No, I did not.

MR HATTINGH: And after this operation, did you ever discuss it again, did you ask him about it?

MR SNYMAN: No, I did not.

MR HATTINGH: And he never mentioned it to you?

MR SNYMAN: No, he did not.

MR HATTINGH: So you accepted that you would do this work without being rewarded financially?

MR SNYMAN: It would be a normal operation and no extra reward was expected for it.

MR HATTINGH: The R200-00 which you received was just normal S&T and we would call it?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, it was money for accommodation and food and drinks while we were in East London.

MR HATTINGH: The fact that you were here to provide weapons for a coup, this was a secret was it not?

MR SNYMAN: Yes, it was top secret, we had to keep a lid on it, and I was told that we could not discuss it with anybody else.

MR HATTINGH: Was it also Vlakplaas policy when they were involved with such secret, covert operations to have as little as possible evidence of their presence in the area?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: If you had to fill gas, you had to pay with cash?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.  We worked on a cash basis when we filled petrol into our vehicles.

MR HATTINGH: So that it could not be traced back to credit cards and it could be found that you were in the area during a certain incident?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: And that is why you received cash so that you could buy your daily, so that you could see for your daily needs?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct Chairperson.