Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: There were soldiers and policemen.

MR KINCAID: Can you describe what kind of confrontation there existed between the youth, who were enforcing the roadblocks, and the Security Forces?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The police would come and disperse the youth by shooting at us and the others would be arrested and be assaulted in the process.

MR KINCAID: Was there ever any loss of life in Stutterheim, Jimmy? - that you're aware of.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No.

MR KINCAID: That's a vaguely formulated question.  I don't mean specifically loss of any of the youths of the township, but do you know whether there was loss of Security Force lives as a result of the conflict in Stutterheim?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, some soldiers, three soldiers died trying to disperse the roadblocks, trying to disperse the youth during the roadblocks.

MR KINCAID: How did they meet their death, how were they killed?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: They were necklaced by the youth, that is using a tyre, burning tyre.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Kincaid, just for clarity, which year is this?  You've mentioned '85 and '89, when did this happen, when were these three soldiers killed?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: It was in 1989.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, was this in consequence of the re-imposition of the consumer boycott that the soldiers lost their lives?  In other words, did they lose their lives after the imposition of the consumer boycott?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct, it is solely because they were trying to disrupt the roadblocks that were established because of the consumer boycott.

MR KINCAID: Listening to your testimony Jimmy, it appears as though - I may have mentioned this before, that the principle actors in this conflict were yourselves, the youth of the township and the members of the Security Forces, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct, we were the people who were involved because we were the people who were trying to maintain order, who were maintaining order in our residential area.

MR KINCAID: You were, at the cold face of the conflict, you were the first line of defence under attack?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Tell the Committee about the farmers, Jimmy, how were the farmers involved, or were they involved in the Stutterheim conflict, in the Stutterheim tension?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The reason for the farmers to be affected, they are the people who are surrounding our rural area and therefore each and every thing that was taking place there, it's easy for them to see.  Even our private meetings that we used to hold in our soccer grounds, they would phone the police and tell them where we were and the police would come.
	The same farmers were also members of the Police Force and the Army.  Sometimes the police would run after us and we would try and hide in their farms and these farmers would catch us and assault us and take us back to the police.  Those were the reasons that made them to be affected.  
	We also wanted to have our own firearms or weapons to try and protect ourselves during the roadblocks, therefore we realised that we could get those weapons from the farmers and we also wanted to chase them away, to drive them away out of their farms.

MR KINCAID: So the farmers, when you say
"were all around us"
... are you conveying that they neighboured, the farmers neighboured the townships of Stutterheim?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, they are next to our place of residence and we buy milk from them.

MR KINCAID: So your testimony suggests that the perception was that the farmers were informing the Security Forces of your meetings in the township, that they were acting as the eyes and ears of the Security Forces, is that what you intend to convey?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: You mentioned that the farmers were also police, what makes you state that, what do you convey by that submission?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I am trying to say that they had a contribution in the Police Force because they were also working there in the police department, some of the farmers.

MR KINCAID: So they were commandos or police reservists, is that what your testimony is?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: They were policemen, they were members of the Police Force.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, in your affidavit you mention an event at the Matomela Church Hall in the township in Stutterheim, in December of 1989, can you recall the circumstances of that meeting or that event?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes.

MR KINCAID: Who called - what happened there, what was it, was it a meeting, was it a church service, what was the reason for the gathering?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: We were at the roadblocks.  As the youth we were called, we were summoned to the church hall.  The church hall was full of people.  We gathered there in the church hall.  The people were coming bit by bit.
	When the house was full - the house couldn't accommodate all the people because the hall was so small and the others were standing outside, the soldiers came driving their Casspirs and a lot of policemen and they told us to get inside the hall, all of us, but it was very difficult for us to do so because the hall was so small.  They told us they were giving us only 15 minutes to disperse ...(intervention)

MR KINCAID: I'd like to lead you on this aspect of your evidence, so if I could just slow you down.  I asked you why the meeting was called, do you know why the meeting was called?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I'm trying to get there.  We ended up not getting the reason for the gathering because the soldiers used teargas to disperse the crowd.

MR KINCAID: Were there any prominent members of the community there or other leaders that had attended at the church that day?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, it was full and there were some leaders and even the Priests were there, church leaders were there.

MR KINCAID: Now you testified that whilst you were there the Security Forces arrived and told you to disperse, what happened Jimmy, carry on in your own words.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: They came and they told us that they were giving us only 15 minutes to disperse.  Just before that 15 minutes they shot at the hall and the hall was made of corrugated iron and the people were injured and we were so squashed that we couldn't even run away.  The people were injured and they were taken to the hospital and they couldn't be admitted there, they were not welcome at the hospital.  They were taken to King William's Town for treatment.  We tried to prevent them, we pelted them with stones, trying to fight them.  We tried to fight them using petrol bombs and we pelted them with stones.

MR KINCAID: You say that the church hall was fired on, did the Security Forces use live ammunition, what kind of ammunition was used in the shooting of the  hall?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: They were using the real ammunition, rubber bullets, teargas and there were bullets that were found on the scene after that.  I don't know what happened to that case that was opened because even the bullets that were found at scene after this incident were kept, but I don't know what happened to the case itself, how far did it go.

MR KINCAID: The result was that people were injured, you testified, and those who were injured you say were refused admission to the Stutterheim hospital?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Where had they to go to be admitted, do you know?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Some were assisted by the clinics that were in the community, others were sent to a hospital in King William's Town.

MR KINCAID: What did this make you feel, Jimmy, what kind of emotions did this act instil in you?