Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

WITNESS: How did they torture you? You said that you were takenthere with a colleague or a friend of yours, and the policeman slapped you inthe car, and then at the Fountain Security Branch it was a policeman by thename of Prinsloo, was it, who started assaulting your friend. Can you tell uswhat they did to you? --- The first day when they picked me up they torturedme. They had a warrant of arrest at first, and the other one who was interrogatingme slapped me. He was busy interrogating me and I didn't pay attention, I waslooking outside. When I was still looking outside he slapped me again, and hetook out his gun, he pointed it at me. And then I paid full attention. Therewas one policeman who was passing by, and then he was called in and he was shownthis letter. And then I asked this friend of mine from Gauteng what this letter was all about, because we've been fighting the whites in thoseyears about the system of education that was in place. And it was difficultfor me to find out the real reason for me being in the cell. Apparently thereis something that I have written in the letter that led to my arrest. Now Gerrardwas hitting me on my chest. And the letter further stated that the whites havebeen oppressing us for quite a long time, and at a later stage they were joinedby our brothers now, who were now engaging themselves in the evil deeds of thepolice. I think those words were very uncomfortable for him. And then he handcuffedme and they also tied my feet, and he made me lie on the sofa, and he used theelectric shocks on my ears and he electrocuted me. I think during that timeMrs Mandela was in Brandfort. I couldn't stand for two minutes. I shook,and ultimately I fell. I shifted from the drawers that were close to me untilto the next wall. He took out his stick and he continually hit me with this.He was still interrogating me, and I was giving him answers. "There is nothingI know, there is nothing I know." I must say that Sivonelo School had been burntdown, and I didn't know what the school had been burned because I was in Gauteng,and when I came back I was told that the police are looking for me because Itook part in the burning of the school. When we arrived here I personally wentto Fountain, and this black policeman was attending me. Now, when I was torturedthis white policeman got out of the room, and when he got out I felt that myhands were sore. They were as if they were chopped. He came back in. He wasangry with me. He used this stick furthermore to hit me, and I told him, "Sir,I have an operation, I have an appendix operation." When I saidthat to him I was really giving him the freedom to do whatever he wanted todo. He left me. They put me into the Volkswagen and then I was transferred toBrandfort. I stayed in Brandfort for a week and then he came back. He took meout of the cell and he gave me a cool drink. The cell was situated very closeto the charge office. He wanted me to confirm what he heard from other people.I said to him, "I don't want to endorse anything that those people have said.I think we will talk in the court of law." And he said to me, "I know you arescared of talking. I will tell you what to write on the paper." I agreed withwhat he was saying, and he gave me a pen and I started writing. He took me,together with an interpreter, into the Magistrate's office and I stated my case,and then I told them that there is nothing that I know. I know nothing of whathappened. And I told the Magistrate that this person had been torturing me,and he forced me to write this statement. That is why I wrote this. And thenwe went out with two different statements now. It was a corridor with a dooron the side, and he pulled me into this room. He said, "What did you say tothe Magistrate?" and I heard him slapping me. It's since then I cannot use myear. For three years I have been hearing funny sounds with my ear, but aftersome time it was quite well. There was another policeman who came to me. Hisname was Hendrik and he was together with the interpreter, and we went intothe office and we put on our clothes. When I realised we were in the veld. Thetar road was far, and then we were tipped into the veld. They interrogated me.I was fastened to the car. They said to me, "You don't want to speak the truth. Now go," and they releasedme. They said, "Go to Botswana." They wanted me to go deep into the veld, butI refused, I said to them, "No, I am not going to do this," because I knew whathappened in different places like in Gauteng, and we have been reading in newspapersthat a person was on his way to the shop with his girlfriend and then he wasshot dead, and then they took the girl with them. So I thought they were goingto do the same with me, and I refused, I didn't go into the veld. They saidto me, "You are going to die and rot in that veld. It was during those timeswhen Dr Matata Mohlana and them were in the leadership.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... can you take us now to 1980. You said that... (incomplete - end of Side A, Tape 4) ... it said that there was rent boycottin your area, and that you were arrested for that and taken to Fountain, andyou were tortured and you got injuries to your neck. Is that correct?

WITNESS: In1980 we were busy closing the shops down when we got arrested, and I was takento Fountain Security Branch. There were four of us. When we arrived in Fountainthe other police said he knows me. It was Hendrik. And the others went back.He looked at me and he said, "It's you again." It was the second time now thatI had been arrested. And he was pulling me with my pairs of trousers in hisoffice. He was slippering (sic) me on the floor. When we got into hisoffice he trampled on me as much as he could. I was rolling on the floor. Hecontinually trampled on me, and he said, "I am going to kill you." And he saidto me, "You are a kaffir," and I said to them, "What do you want?" He askedme what is it that we wanted, and I told him about the education that was in poor conditions, and I told him that we didn't findanything wrong with closing down the shops. And he continually told me thatI was a bad kaffir. He had already trampled me enough on my neck. He was hefty,he was well built, and I was a young and upcoming youngster, and my neck hadbeen giving me trouble since that day until now.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... you were assaulted at your house by the Amabuthoin 1991. Is that correct?

WITNESS: 1991?

MR LYSTER: 1991 you said ... (inaudible)

WITNESS: Yes, I think it was in 1990.I didn't mention the ANC trial. It was in 1985. But I think I indicated thatin my statement.