Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We proceeded along that street as I've explained.  We have to cross a street which comes from Zwandela which proceeds towards the taxi rank near the shops ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name of the street that you came up to?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The only street that I remember well is Moshweshwe.  As you go down Moshweshwe there is a street which comes from Zwandela which crosses and proceeds towards the shops near the taxi rank.  That is where we crossed the street, on our way along Moshweshwe.  We found a lot of comrades around a big fire ...[intervention]

MR STRYDOM: Just before you carry on, I want to refer you to Exhibit J which is a plan of Boipatong, if you can just indicate to the Committee the street where you will find the shop.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I think this is the point where we ...[inaudible] can see Moshweshwe Street going down and the street as I'm pointing, that is the one that crosses Moshweshwe towards the shops near the taxi rank.

MR STRYDOM: Maybe just for record purposes, I want to place on record that according to my map it seems to be Lekwa Street, higher up beyond the shops, it's names Lekwa Street.  Lower down it seems to be, ja, also Lekwa Street.
	You were testifying about comrades close to a fire, can you just take it from there?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes.  As we came closer to them they started shooting towards us and we also shot back.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know who fired in your group?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Only one person by the name of Damarra, even if it was clear that he wasn't one that was shooting.

MR STRYDOM: At that stage were all the people still together in one group or not?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, that's correct.

MR STRYDOM: Was the situation right through the attack or not?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We ...[inaudible] different way dispersed after the shooting.

MR STRYDOM: I want you now to testify about what you did and where you went in the township.

MR STRYDOM: After the shooting it was clear that the comrades were running away.  Some retreated towards Slovo Park, some ran up towards the shops.  That is where we divided into two groups which were not under command.  We just ran to two different places.
	I was with the group which proceeded towards the shop.  As the comrades were retreating, jumping fences into the yards, we also dispersed and went in different ways.  Some people went into the houses, some people were running along the streets.
	That is where we started hitting houses, throwing stones at houses.  As others were getting into the houses, others were shooting those who were running away, others were following those who were running away with spears.

MR STRYDOM: During all this did you see Mr Damarra Chonco again?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say I was close to him.

MR STRYDOM: Did you go into any houses?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: No, I didn't get into any houses.

MR STRYDOM: What did you do?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: All that I did, I threw stones at the houses.  I also met someone who was running away, I stabbed him with a spear.

MR STRYDOM: Do you remember which part of this persons body you stabbed?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: As he was running I stabbed him from the back.

MR STRYDOM: Was it a male person or a female?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It was a male person.

MR STRYDOM: After you stabbed him, did he fall to the ground or what happened to him?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I stabbed him, he fell to the ground.  As he wasn't alone, there were many people running away, I ran after the others.  I think those who were coming from behind me stabbed him too and finished him.

MR SIBANYONI: Are you able to indicate where you met this person who was running away and you stabbed, in relation to the street or the shops?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say when we started shooting in that fashion I couldn't specifically say as to where these things happened because it was a confused situation and further I don't know Boipatong very well but when I try to recall I think we had already passed the shops.

MR SIBANYONI: But you were still on Lekwa Street?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't remember the name of the street where I stabbed him.

MR STRYDOM: Did you stab this man shortly after you entered Boipatong or towards the time that you were ready to leave Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It was the time when we were running after those who were retreating, running away.  After we have just started shooting and then they ran away.

MR STRYDOM: Now apart from this person did you injure any other person in Boipatong, injure or kill?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: All the others that I tried to follow, they managed to run away from me.  I just continued breaking windows of houses until we had to go back where we came from.

MR STRYDOM: Do you remember from which street you left Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We used a street which is situated where there is a fence but I don't know the name of the street.

MR STRYDOM: That street, was it close to where you entered or was it the other side of Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It was not that far from where we entered.  I would say ...[intervention]

INTERPRETER: Excuse me, he said it was far from where we entered the place.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Interpreter, I can't hear you very clearly.

INTERPRETER: He said it was far, I made a mistake saying it was near.

MR STRYDOM: If I show you ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

MR STRYDOM: If I show you Exhibit J, can you indicate where you left Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It is so difficult for me to follow the map but I will just give directions here.  As we entered, on our right-hand side we went down, down that street.  When we were coming out of the place ...[no further translation]

MR STRYDOM: You were stating: "Coming out of the place", can you take it from there please?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: We went out on the side where Boipatong is ...[indistinct] to a fence ...[indistinct]

MR LAX: Sorry, please just repeat Mr Interpreter, that thing about the fence.  I couldn't hear you as it was indistinct.

INTERPRETER: He said they went out at the place where Boipatong is adjacent to firms.

MR STRYDOM: Can you give a name of one of those firms or two maybe?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say Cape Meat as they follow each other.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know the location of the informal settlement called Slovo Park?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, I know the place.

MR STRYDOM: During the course of the attack did you go into Slovo Park or not?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I and my group we didn't reach Slovo Park.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see any of the attackers going in that direction?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would think the other group which went downwards might have reached Slovo Park.

MR STRYDOM: What was the general condition with regard to lights in that area?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Regarding light of Boipatong you said?

MR STRYDOM: Yes, that's correct.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: There was light but it wasn't that good.

MR STRYDOM: What kind of lights were there?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: There were those, they're Apollo lights.

MR STRYDOM: How long would you estimate did you spend in Boipatong itself?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I think it was about one hour and thirty minutes.

MR STRYDOM: How long would you say it would take, or did it take for the group to get from kwaMadala Hostel to the stage where the group entered Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It will be from 15 to 20 minutes.

MR STRYDOM: And did it take the same time to get from Boipatong to kwaMadala Hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, it might have.

MR STRYDOM: During the attack did you see Defence Force or Police vehicles in Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: No.