Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-03-25

ADV PRIOR: ... 25th of March 1999.  The amnesty application of P M Dolo proceeds.  The other applicant, Mr Makuala has become deceased.  He died since the last hearing.  He died I understand whilst in prison.
	Mr Chairman, as you will recall there was an allegation made by the Tsemane family regarding the motive behind the killings in this particular matter, as a result of which the Committee requested the matter to be investigated, which is was.  A report was filed by the Evidence Leader regarding the investigations, and I wish to call today a Mr Charles Mather, a businessman from the Sterkspruit area, who will be in a better position to describe to the Committee the conditions and the perceptions of the community as they existed at that time.
	As a result of possible prejudice to interested persons, notices were sent to inter alia, Mr J H Hatting in terms of Section 19 of our Act, as a possible implicated person.  It was made clear to Mr Hatting's attorney who is present today, Mr N Naude, that Mr Hatting was not directly implicated in any evidence arising from these applications, but that the possibility may exist that by implication his client's rights may be affected.  And for that reason the Amnesty Committee or the Amnesty Department felt obliged to serve him the necessary notice.
	In addition hereto, a Section 19 notice was also served on Mr Buyafuti, a businessman from Sterkspruit.  I understand from Mr Mbandazayo who says that he acts from time to time on behalf of Mr Buyafuti, that he isn't here.  Is that correct, he's not here today?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Chairperson.  I haven't seen him, but unfortunately he never contacted me.  I don't know about the subpoena.

ADV PRIOR: I have a Section 19 notice which was marked by hand and I think it was given to the East London staff, but similarly the notices were served in Sterkspruit and that area, Lady Grey on Mr Hatting, that's why Mr Naude is here.  A notice was sent to Mr Mather and he's here.  I do have that correspondence.  So possibly, Mr Naude the newcomer, could put his name on record for purposes of the transcribers.

MR NAUDE: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I'm Nico Naude from the firm Honey and Partners in Bloemfontein, and I represent Mr Hatting in this matter.

ADV PRIOR: We call Mr Charles Mather.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you do that, could we record that the original Committee is now sitting to hear this.

MR LAX: Mr Mather, your full names for the record, please.

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Charles Alexander Mather.

MR LAX: Do you have any objection to taking an oath?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: (sworn states)

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mather, is it correct that you live in Lady Grey and you have business interests in the Sterkspruit area, is that correct?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: That is so.

ADV PRIOR: Could you possibly just give the Committee some background, some idea of how long you have lived and worked in that particular area?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: I was born in the Herschel area and I've worked there all my life since I left school, which is plus-minus 32 years.

ADV PRIOR: Could you just briefly give the Committee an idea of your business interests and the family's business interests.  I understand from what you told me this morning, that the Mather family have been in that area for some time and have business interests in that specific area.  Could you possibly just briefly describe those to the Commission please.

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Well I'm 50 years of age and I was born there and my father was in business long before that, I can't tell you exactly how many years, but we can probably say 70.
	When I first went to work for him he had a small little trading station.  If you go back 30 years, at that time business was basically restricted to white people, of which my family had a trading station where we had the privilege of trading.

ADV PRIOR: Now during 1991/1992, that was before the problems that arose in the Sterkspruit area which were directly related to these amnesty applications, what were you business interests in that area?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: We had four different businesses, grocery supermarkets, wholesale, petrol, petrol sales, garage workshop, construction, manufacturing bricks. So we were quite a large firm operating out of Sterkspruit.

ADV PRIOR: Before we proceed with the other interested parties in Sterkspruit, you also indicated to me, and I wish you also to briefly describe to the Committee, during the time in the Transkei as it was then known under the Matanzima regime, what was the policy of that particular regime towards white traders?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Alright.  When the Transkei was granted independence, I can't remember the year, 1970-something, it was the policy of the then Matanzima's that the white traders should move out of the area.  In fact there was an agreement with the government that you could put your business up for sale and they would come and evaluate it and it was purchased by the then Transkei Development Corporation and they would pay you a very fair price based on goodwill over the last three years, or five years, I can't remember.
	All the white owned businesses were allocated to different people in the Transkei.  We of course refused to sell.  A lot of traders sold, a lot didn't sell.  We weren't forced to, but the general attitude of the government of that time was that the white trader must go and it must be bought by local black business people, Transkei business people.
	I do know, I can remember somebody coming into my shop and saying: "Well, this business is going to be mine one day, it's been allocated to me" and can I show him around and: "Can I look at the house?", and all those types of things.   I remember saying to him: "I think you're mistaken, this business is not for sale and it will never be for sale."

ADV PRIOR: Now when the Matanzima era came to an end and Brigadier Bantu Holomisa took up power, that was round the middle of the '80's, 85/86, what was the attitude towards white business in the Transkei at that time?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Under the Holamisa rule the policy of the government changed, the Transkei Government, the white businesses were welcomed, a lot of the chain stores moved into the Transkei where they were not allowed to before ...(intervention)

ADV PRIOR: When you say chain stores, who do you have in mind?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Pep Stores, Scotts, Street Beat, all the different furniture groups.

ADV PRIOR: Like Ellerines.

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Ellerines.

ADV PRIOR: Russells?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Yes, Ellerines, Russells, Barnetts, Price and Pride, the Score grocery section.

ADV PRIOR: Did this influx, if I may describe it as such, did that have any effect on the local economy of Sterkspruit, as it then existed?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Well the effect that it did have is that the local businessmen, myself included, came under quite severe strain as far as business was concerned, because all of a sudden you had very good appositions trading under modern techniques where, if I have to look at the Herschel district and the people, somebody like myself, I was born there, never been exposed to the outside environment and all of a sudden you were faced with the threat of, for example a Pep Stores, I mean everybody knows Pep Stores, opposing you, grocery people opposing you, furniture people coming in that weren't in the area before, so they took a lot of the cash-flow out of the market by means of selling HP and yes, the businesses did go under a bit of financial strain at that time.

ADV PRIOR: Now during 1991/1992, did you know a person by the name of Buyafuti?

CHARLES ALEXANDER MATHER: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: Who was he, could you describe him to the Committee?