Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: We stayed in the same place sir, first of all.  There was only one self defence unit from Block A to Block F.  Mr Buthelezi was able to form a new self defence unit.  If there were mistakes made by the existing self defence unit, they should have been called into some sort of meeting and he should have pointed out their mistakes.  All he did was form a new self defence unit that nobody knew about.
	Nobody knew about - all five blocks did not know about this new self defence unit.  If all the blocks knew about this the existing self defence unit would have withdrawn and I have already said that he was seen walking around or working with the IFP even the weapons that were being used by the new self defence unit.  The weapons were the same as those used by the Internal Stability Unit.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you agree that the old SDU unit accepted the existence of the new SD unit, is that right?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes sir, these were the reasons.  As I have already explained what was most important or what was significant was about the people who came from the rural areas and those that were originally from the townships and forced this.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is there anything arising Mr Madasa?

MR MADASA: Yes, just one Mr Chair.  Remember you said when you completed the form you were assisted by somebody.  Were you advised how to complete the form or what you say in the form?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes.

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson thank you.  Now Mr Sonti, to your knowledge was Mrs Buthelezi also a member of the IFP?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Which Mrs Buthelezi?

MR MAPOMA: The wife of Thokozana Buthelezi.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: It is rare that as a member of the Kaizer Chiefs my child would favour another team.  I don't know how he was killed as I was not there.

MR MAPOMA: How the other nine were killed whereas you were not there?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I don't know how they were killed sir.  However, I was there when they were captured.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sonti you may return to your seat.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I would like to say something that I almost forgot.  After these incidents or before these incidents on the 12th December 1993 in all this conflict with the new self defence unit there was a certain lady who was named Mrs Khumalo who was burnt in a shack at Block D House No. 7113 after the fire died down or was put off the shack had been destroyed already as Mrs Khumalo used to sell alcohol.  We followed this up with the old self defence unit.
	We found beer bottles that were broken.  We went to another shack where the gangster members stayed who were under the ANC Youth League Banner, two shacks, Block D and Block A.  What is shocking sir is that all that I have said, they never came to find out and to help that as people who were patrolling, there is someone who died or was killed and they never would come and tell us how this happened.  
	They were all from different townships, Davyton, Thembisa, Thokosa and Vosloorus.  They would just disappear most of the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sonti yesterday you told us about the fact that they do not attend the funerals when a member has died, we know that.  Is there anything else that is new that you want to tell us?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Sir, this is what I'm trying to say.  First of all there had been no funeral yet.  Someone was just killed, they would not come to see who has been injured and how.  What would happen is that they would just disappear from the community that is what I am reporting.  They would not come and assess the damage, to tell us if they have any knowledge of such incidents.
	I've given you a reason - an example with Mrs Khumalo.  Those broken beer bottles that were found lead us to one of the places in which they stayed.  Lastly I went to work on the 8th, the 9th was my closing date at work, end of year closing.  After I came back from work I came across my colleagues at Skosana Section, at the T-junction on your way to Natalspruit Hospital, there were from 70.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sonti what we want to hear is in connection with the death of the person and what you did in that - in connection with their death.  That's all we want to hear.  Do you understand that?  So if what you're - if what you want to tell us has anything to do with the death of this person please proceed.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I have already explained sir about this lady that was burnt to death that this beer bottles lead to the place where my colleagues were staying.  Now I'm coming to my matter.  As I have already said in Skosana Section, my colleagues bumped into me there as I have a mark over here, I was injured by the colleagues that have passed away.
	They attacked me as I got out of the taxi.  They dragged me, surrounding the taxi, I did not have strength to fight for myself.  I ran until I gave in.  They were shouting "Vimbani Inkatha".  They were shooting in the air and I was assisted and helped by the Stability Unit, by the name of Mr K P I Meintjies who resided in that area who belonged to the Stability Unit who enlisted help to me but one thing that I did not receive or discover or realise after was my pair of shoes and my jersey that I wore and the clothes that I wore that particular day are the ones that I am displaying to you, right now.  
	May you please look at this jersey and the T shirt properly because this is how the incident happened.  This is how things happened and transpired that day but what I'm trying to get to is that the money that I had amounting to R1 903.00 was stolen, was taken from me that day and the ANC Youth League was existing in 1993 in Moleleki Extension 2 at the time.  I thank you in so many ways.

MR MADASA: Are you done?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes I am done.

MR MADASA: Nothing further Mr Chair.

MR MAPOMA: Nothing further sir.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you sir.  You may go back to your seat.

CHAIRPERSON: We will take a tea adjournment at this stage and we will re-convene at quarter past 12.  Hopefully this will give Mr Mapoma and Mr Madasa an opportunity to hold the conference and see the extent to which they can shorten the proceedings.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Madasa?

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.  Before we adjourned, you allowed us the opportunity to discuss the case with my learned friend with a view to shorten the proceedings.  We have not had sufficient time as yet to complete that process.  So we are asking for an extension of time.  Thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: I confirm what Mr Madasa has said Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  Because it is necessary to make sure that we dispense with unnecessary evidence in this matter, I think Counsel ought to be allowed time to discuss - hold a conference in order to discuss the issues that are involved in this matter and then we can proceed as soon as they are finished with that conference.
	I see that the time now is approximately 25 to 1 - it's about 25 minutes to lunch adjournment.  Perhaps we should take the luncheon adjournment at this stage and re-convene.  We will take an early lunch adjournment and we will re-convene at half past 1 instead of 2 o'clock.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Madasa?

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair we are indebted to the Committee, I and my learned friend for the opportunity to hold a pre-hearing conference and as a result of that conference I would like to state as follows.
	Applicants number 15, one Malcolmess Singamo, on Page 1 of the bundle.  On his behalf, I move an Application that his Application be withdrawn.  The reason.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that Application No. 8081/97?