Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-23

MR BLACK: When, in paragraph 5 you say
"A stage was reached when the leaders of the Civic Association called the members of the Anti Crime Campaign to order to complain that the community at large were complaining to them..."
that's the Civic Association, I assume:-
"...that members of the Anti Crime Campaign were in fact carrying out crimes against the community."

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Then you go on in paragraph 6 where you say
"Soon Mr Chris Ngwenya and Zwane were leading attacks on members of the civic and I became involved in the attacks and counter-attacks which were taking place in the community",
and you explain this, give further details, because you go on to say that:-
"These details are important in order to give the community some insight as to the political divisions and troubles which existed in the community."
Okay.   Can you just explain a little there about the troubles that started to develop?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: It was on a Sunday morning, and it looked like Chris and some other boys went to Mr Tusi Bobelo's house to attack him after it was discussed that the Anti Crime Campaign had indicated that the Black Cats were robbing people.   Chris took some other boys and they went to attack Mr Bobelo.   Unfortunately, they did not find him.   Apparently they found him, but he did not open the door, and they just ended up communicating with him from outside and this was taken to a meeting, and they went to Chris's house to ask him what was happening about his visit to go and attack Mr Bobelo on that morning.   Chris did not want to understand, because he thereafter did not want to leave his home, instead he called the police and indicated to them that he was being attacked, and the police came.   That is when Chris Bobelo, shall I say when the police arrived, he got out of the house and he realised that there was nothing that the civic people would discuss with him, because there were now police, they left him.

MR BLACK: Okay, I don't want to go into every incident in so much detail.   So at this stage there developed a difference, a rift, a clear rivalry between Chris Ngwenya and Zwane and his, and you, with the Anti Crime people and the Civic?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You go on further to say that, at paragraph 7, you can give details of various clashes which took place in the faction led by Chris Ngwenya and Wesselton Civic Association.   I don't know if it's necessary to go into all those details, but at that stage were clashes taking place in the township?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR BLACK: Okay.   You allege here that Ngwenya and Zwane enjoyed the support of the IFP, the municipal authorities and were protected and armed by certain elements of the South African Police?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Do you have personal knowledge of this?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I used to believe these people, sometimes the police would arrive in my presence, they would talk to them in my presence.   Many crimes were committed during that time and these crimes were not seriously taken up by the police.

MR BLACK: Let's go on to, how do you know they enjoyed the support of the IFP?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: It is because there was an UHUSA office at Wesselton, that is where I found out, because I was once sent there, I discovered from the visit that they were working hand in hand with Inkatha.

MR BLACK: If we go further on now to paragraph 8, do you see paragraph 8 there at the bottom?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR BLACK: Now I don't want to lead you on this, because the police mentioned here are represented, but could you just describe what happened at this occasion at the UWISA offices, when Sergeant Captain Botha and Van Zyl and other police were present?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I was from UWISA going to the municipal office at the township.   It was myself and Jomo Shongwe, and when we arrived, there was Sergeant Botha, Captain Botha and Warrant Officer Van Zyl.   I think Captain Marais was also present, and when we arrived, we sat down and they then asked who among the Black Cat members knew how to use a gun.   China Simese and Jwi Zwane identified themselves as such, and they took them, and when they came back they had guns, and... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Can you just repeat what the question was, the question that was asked by whoever in that office, about firearms?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Warrant Officer Van Zyl wanted to know from us as to whether there were Black Cat members who could use a gun.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was he referring to, who was he asking?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: He was asking us, because there were other Black Cat members in the very same office, which members we found there.

ADV BOSMAN: I'm not quite sure whether I followed.   At the time when you belonged to the civic organisation, you seem to have been only 14 years old, is that correct?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Are you talking about the civic?

ADV BOSMAN: Yes.   It says here you were born in 1974.

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: And in 1989, you joined this Anti Crime Campaign.

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Were you only 14 years old?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

ADV BOSMAN: And at the time when you met at the UHUSA offices, when you were asked about who could use a gun, were you then also only 14 years old, or how old were you then?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Even though I cannot still remember how old I was in 1989, but I think I was still young.   You too can establish that if you were to work it out.   He did not ask me personally, but he asked our group.

MR BLACK: Okay.   Now, you said who went off to go and fetch the guns?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: It was Jwi Zwane and China Simese.

MR BLACK: And did they return with any firearms?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR BLACK: Then what happened?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is when the attacks started.   They went to attack Mr Ngosi's house.   Mr Ngosi was an ANC member.

MR BLACK: Now, if you turn over to page 52, you allege in paragraph 9 at the top there that a number of firearms were stored at the house of Mr Chris Ngwenya, including self-made firearms, ngwasha(?), and that these firearms were being supplied to us through UHUSA offices.   Is that, do you have personal knowledge of that?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You say
"Our instructions were to attack ANC sympathisers and members of the community who supported, sympathised with the civic and who were considered by Ngwenya and Zwane, together with certain members of the town council and police, to be enemies."
Now, who gave these instructions?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Chris and Jwi were the ones who gave out the instructions, because they were our leaders.

MR BLACK: But now who - the leaders of whom, you say "our leaders"?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: They were leaders of the Anti Crime Campaign, the same group that later on became the Black Cats.

MR BLACK: At this stage, were you also round about 14, 15 years old?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I would say that.

MR BLACK: Now you say you became troubled by the events taking place and you could see that violence was increasing, and you became more and more involved, and it became more difficult for you to break away from the group being led by Chris Ngwenya and Jwi Zwane?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Because why didn't you just, why didn't you break away at that stage?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I was still young at the time when everything was happening and Chris and Jwi, as far as I knew them, I can say I was afraid for my life, because anything could have happened to me.