Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-12

ADV BOSMAN: Was that at the time when Mr du Preez and Vorster were also present?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Col Taylor spoke to us all in Afrikaans and occasionally I would miss the contents of certain things and I would talk to him on the side, so I was told then by him that he was a member of S O U, by Col Taylor.  It would have been round about exactly the same time that he spoke to all the other members.

ADV BOSMAN: So it would appear you were fairly extensively briefed, were you?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: I was reasonably briefed from Mr Taylor, yes Ma'am.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.  Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR VISSER: Just two aspects, Mr Chairman, with your leave.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: You say you didn't understand the Afrikaans so well.  Where are you originally from Mr Wasserman?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: I'm originally from Zimbabwe.

MR VISSER: How long had you been in the country at the time?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: At this particular time, are we talking 89 now?

MR VISSER: Yes.

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: It would have been from 1980 I was here.

MR VISSER: About 9 years.  There's a popular misconception, is there not, that the askaris that operated during the conflict of the past, were all stationed at Vlakplaas, near Pretoria.  That perception is incorrect, is that right?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's an incorrect perception.

MR VISSER: There were permanent askaris, were there not, in Durban?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Are those the ones that you refer to who were based at Camperdown and who fell under the command of Mr Taylor as their handler?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Perhaps you could just tell us, how many askaris were there in the Durban area?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, to the best of my knowledge, it's 8 or 9.

MR VISSER: 8 or 9?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Correct.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And if I may, a last questions, Mr Chairman.   Did they, were they supposed to do the same work as the askaris from Vlakplaas, to identify ANC supporters that they might have met in camps and so on and identify people from photographs and assist in their arrests?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's a correct description, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Were askaris there to identify MK operatives, in other words people who were operating outside of South Africa, or were they also involved in local political activists?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, the unit of askaris here were to identify Umkhonto weSizwe operatives, whom they had dealings with in the camps outside and identify them on their return to South Africa.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Thanks very much.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, that is the evidence which we wish to place before you by way of viva voce evidence.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Are you proposing to lead any evidence?

MS THABETHE: No, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Which of the dependants or members of the family of Tekere are at the hearing?

MS THABETHE: There is the mother, Mr Chair, the mother of the deceased, Nombuso Sithole.  Here's the sister, next to me, Jabu Mkhwanazi and the aunt, Octavia Mkhwanazi.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the deceased not married and had a wife and children?

MS THABETHE: No, Mr Chair, he didn't, he wasn't married.

CHAIRPERSON: He what?

MS THABETHE: He wasn't married and he did not have any children?

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of education did he have?

MS THABETHE: He apparently, according to the sister, he went up until Standard 10 and then skipped the country.

CHAIRPERSON: Does she know roughly what year it was that he left the country?

MS THABETHE: It was in 1984, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: When last did she see him?

MS THABETHE: January 1984.

CHAIRPERSON: 1994?

MS THABETHE: 1984.

CHAIRPERSON: That is when he left the country?

MS THABETHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: She'd not seen him after that?

MS THABETHE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: And the other members of your family?  You mother and your sister and your aunt?

MS THABETHE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Any questions to put to her?

MR LAX: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  That brings to an end oral evidence in this matter.  Mr Visser do you propose to address us?

MR VISSER: Very briefly, with your permission, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Just first of all, on the point which you posed about the time when Tekere left, you will find a reference by the mother who made a statement in your additional bundle at page 4, 7 lines from the top, there's a reference to
1984, Mr Chairman.  It says he decided to cross the border to Tanzania.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.