Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-25

GEORGE LENTSELA: Yes, I talked to the personnel at the constituency office and I went to the ANC office and they said to me those pamphlets were printed in Kimberley, but they will get the copy from Kimberley, if I want one.

DR RANDERA: I just want to correct one thing. If it needs correction.  The ANC, as you know, was a banned organisation in 1986, in 1987.  When you say you went to the ANC office, you are not meaning that it was a UDF office?  There was no ANC in the country at the time, a legal organisation.

GEORGE LENTSELA: When I went to Vryburg we were told that he died in 1986 and he was buried at Warrenton where he was killed.

DR RANDERA: Did you make further enquiries in Warrenton, with the police or anybody else?

GEORGE LENTSELA: I have never been to Warrenton to investigate but I was told that they are still investigating this matter in Warrenton and thereafter they will contact the relatives of Richard's.

DR RANDERA: Sorry, Mr Lentsela, will you please tell us, who told you that they are investigating this matter?

GEORGE LENTSELA: I just forget his name, but the surname is Mokoena at Vryburg at ANC offices. I just happened to forget his first name, his surname is Mokoena.

DR RANDERA: Now you say many attempts by the family to establish the whereabouts of what happened to Vusi produced no substantial evidence.  Besides this discussion that you had with Mr Mokoena in Vryburg, have you done anything, have you or your brother done anything else?
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GEORGE LENTSELA: We took a lot of initiatives, because we even went to Johannesburg, we went to Orkney, we went to every place where we thought he had friends and our friends, and every time we meet them, they would say Potgieter had been here before and the same Potgieter had been to Orkney to look for him.

DR RANDERA: My last question, Mr Lentsela, did you go to Shell House in Johannesburg, the ANC headquarters, once the ANC was unbanned, to find out?

GEORGE LENTSELA: In August this month, I have been to Vryburg, because they took the matter in their hands.  They called Mafekeng, because they knew where to call.  I was only taking my complaints to them and they called Mafekeng.  If I remember well, it was the end of last month, they called me and they replied me and they said Richard was qualifying in the ANC.  I think those are the people who are still busy with this matter, with the Shell House.

DR RANDERA: I will just ask my colleagues whether they want to ask any questions. Mr Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Lentsela, when the people at Shell House said he was qualified, what really were they referring to?

GEORGE LENTSELA: I can't hear you well.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My question is, you have just said you went to Shell House and the people at Shell House told you that Richard was qualified.  Now I want to know what qualifications were they referring to?

GEORGE LENTSELA: I said I was at Vryburg and the Vryburg people called Mafekeng.  I was in their presence when they phoned and they were asking as to whether he is a qualified member of the ANC, and the answer from Mafekeng was yes, he is qualified.  They were replying the call from Mr Mokoena at
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Vryburg.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Mokoena, now explain to us that if he was qualified ...

GEORGE LENTSELA: His father was supposed to go and fill in two forms so that he can get compensation.  That was what Mr Mokoena said. I didn't say I was at Shell House.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My apologies.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Now did Richard's father fill in the forms?

GEORGE LENTSELA: No, he didn't.  It was just yesterday when we were in Vryburg and we were still intending to go to Johannesburg to fill in those forms.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I thank you.  At the time of his teaching at Vryburg, didn't you get any idea maybe that he was involved in politics as a teacher?

GEORGE LENTSELA: Some people told me that he was politically active in Vryburg.  This information was given to me by some of the people he was teaching, yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When he came home with these three gentlemen, was he bringing the message that he is heading somewhere?

GEORGE LENTSELA: That is correct.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You have already mentioned earlier on that these three people were unknown.

GEORGE LENTSELA: We do not know these people, they did not even get out of the car.  He was the only one who came into the house.  He greeted everybody in the house and he was asked as to where he was going to.  He said no, the job will have to wait for some time and he went out into the car.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How did the community of Vryburg perceive Richard?

GEORGE LENTSELA: Teachers at Vryburg, Mr Sididi and them, were people who were so sorrowful, because he was still a young
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and a very energetic man and they all loved him.

THOMAS MANTHATA: It is really convincing that he was well known and he was loved and he was supported by the people.  We will advise you, Sir, to fill in those forms and we have to see what the ANC has to say.

GEORGE LENTSELA: Are you referring to the forms at Vryburg?

GEORGE LENTSELA: I am referring to the forms that have to be filled in by Richard's father, I am referring to those forms.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you very much.

PROF MEIRING: Mr Lentsela, just a few short questions. Your brother, Daniel, who is sitting with you, who was the father of Richard, how large is his ...

GEORGE LENTSELA: That is correct, this is Richard's father.

PROF MEIRING: How large is his family?

GEORGE LENTSELA: When these things happened, Richard's father is still working, is in Johannesburg, Richard was under my guardianship.

PROF MEIRING: Is his mother still alive at the moment?

GEORGE LENTSELA: His mother passed away last year.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  Mr Lentsela and Mr Daniel Lentsela, father of Richard, I thank you for coming all the way from Schweizer-Reneke today to come and tell us the story of Richard.   We have heard stories of many, many disappearances.  Often people don't even known where their loved ones are.  You were given some information about Richard and that he may have passed away, but even then there must still be uncertainty, and to live with that uncertainty on the one side must be very painful, and even if there was certainty, it must be painful to lose someone,
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a son indeed, who held so much promise, but decided for reasons best known to himself at the time, to go on a different path. 
 I would like to say that as far as these forms go that you mention, I am sure there are many ANC people here today who should be able to inform you.  So you don't have to wait to go to Vryburg.  These are, as I understand it again, government forms.  It is a government issue now, it is not even an ANC issue.  So those forms should be available through most of our offices.  Therefore, if you can act on that very quickly.  
 I would also like to say that we will try through our investigative unit, to determine what happened at Warrenton and also to determine from the ANC whether they have any information about this incident that happened at Warrenton, and we will let you know as soon as possible. 
 I thank you very much for coming.

GEORGE LENTSELA: I also thank you.
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