Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: I think they will go there to drink at that house.

ADV GCABASHE: So you aren't able to identify that particular person and say ...(Zulu).  You don't really know who he was?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: No, I don't know the person.

ADV GCABASHE: What about the residents of that house, who were they?  You said you knew everybody in Lusaka-A, whose house was that?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: It was Khumalo's house.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, Mr Majiki.  Thank you, Chair.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, just one thing, just about the photograph.  Is there anything else that you saw on this photograph?  You say you saw a crowd of people with red bands and this gentleman, this person you've just been referring to was one of them, is there anything else that you saw on this photograph?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: What appeared on that photograph, those people had on the red headbands and the T-shirts of their organisation and the weapons in their hands, which fully described that they belonged to which organisation.
	One would easily identify that really indeed this is an Inkatha member.  They formed a front line, all of them.

ADV SANDI: Did you see any particular person or persons who were known to you on this photograph?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Please repeat the last part of your question.

ADV SANDI: Did you see any particular person or persons who were known to you in that photograph?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, on that photograph there were people that I knew facially, although I did not know their names.  I just knew them from sight but I did not know their details or their names as such.

ADV SANDI: Did your comrades identify any people they knew from this picture?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, that's correct.

ADV SANDI: Was any decision taken as to what was going to be done to such people?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: The decision that was taken was that people who were not part of that organisation should leave and go to reside with the rest of their fellow members.  In other words they should join the group of people that they belonged to, one particular organisation.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Mr Majiki.  Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	You said that this incident with the photographs happened on a Wednesday, are you able to give us a better indication about the date?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: It was 1993.  I don't remember the month neither do I remember the date.  That was a war situation.  I don't think I will be in a position to remember all the fine details.

CHAIRPERSON: The house of Khumalo, that was in Lusaka-A, was it?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the person that you had apprehended and who was apparently shot with the AK47, he was found in a house still in Lusaka-A.

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: What happened, when we got inside the house they fled, they ran away, the people who were in the house.  We met him or we captured him at Ngaki Street.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that still in Lusaka-A?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And was that person definitely wounded in that incident?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, for the fact that he disappeared subsequently, it was so obvious and apparent that he definitely got wounded.

CHAIRPERSON: Then just one final thing.  When you were shooting at these people that were involved in the fight with you, were you shooting with the intention to kill?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: I would not say so, that it was with an intention to kill but because this was a war situation we were in a fight, we were fighting.

CHAIRPERSON: No but when you were firing your AK47 rifle, were you shooting in the direction of the people that you were fighting with?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Because we were not trained professionally with the usage of firearms, you would shoot.  As to whether the firearm is pointing on top or at the side or wherever, you will shoot as long as you will have pulled the trigger and you will hide and run away.  That's what used to happen since we were not professionally trained.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but now in doing that, what was your aim, was your aim to at least shoot them to wound them and if necessary to kill them?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Because we were not very close, the two groups were not close, I think I would say we were just scaring them away but as they were shooting at our group they were not playing, they were shooting to kill and we would have to do the same in return.
	I will say initially we will be doing this to scare them off but eventually we will have to shoot to kill as they were doing the same with us.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Sibeko, any re-examination?

MR SIBEKO: A few aspects, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Majiki, you knew at the time that the weapon you were carrying is either deadly, a person could die or a person could get injured, is that so?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: A firearm is a unique thing, you will not claim to say you are decorating the firearm, it's a deadly weapon.  I knew that fact at the time.

MR SIBEKO: Mr Majiki, training or no training, once you fire a shot and that bullet hits that person, either that person is going to die or is going to get injured, is that so?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, that is true, that's a fact.

MR SIBEKO: Thanks, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thank you, Mr Majiki, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: We are going to adjourn for 15 minutes, we'll reconvene in 15 minutes time.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Steenkamp, do you want to deal with this question around the request of Mr Msizi at this stage?