Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

UNKNOWN: Yes, it was burnt after I was detained.
MS SEROKE After you were detained.

UNKNOWN: Yes, after I was detained.

MS SEROKE: When they took you out of the Casspir to the van, were you alone at that time or were there any other people who were with you.

UNKNOWN: When they were assaulting me, I was alone in the van, but when I got to the charge office, there was another guy who was there and I think people of Colesberg did not know that there was another man who was arrested.

MS SEROKE: Who was that person?

UNKNOWN: That person is the one next to me, Patrick.

MS SEROKE: He was there?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was also there, but I met him in the police station.

MS SEROKE: They took you out when you released from the charge office, did you go to any doctor.  Were you injured in any way.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did go to doctor Moola in De Aar.  On the fourth if I am not mistaken.  My parents took me to this doctor in De Aar.

MS SEROKE: When you got better did you lay any charges against Chris and Jansen, the policemen who were assaulting you.

UNKNOWN: When we came from the doctor, my family decided to make a claim.  The police heard that we were laying a charge against them.  And what they did, they charged me with public violence.

MS SEROKE: Were you arrested because they laid a charge against you for public violence?

UNKNOWN: I couldn't continue with my claim, because when my parents were laying this charge, I was the one who was charged and it was the policeman's charge which continued.

MS SEROKE: Who was your attorney at this time?

UNKNOWN: It was Mpati from Grahamstown.

MS SEROKE: And what happened to the police case.  Were you charged or what happened?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I was charged and I was sentenced and my case just disappeared.

MS SEROKE: You've already said that Chris is in Aliwal North and where is Jansen?

UNKNOWN: They do know him here in police station where he is, because the police who did this to us in 1985, was still here and the policemen there in the police station, they do know where Jansen is.  
MS SEROKE Is he still a policeman?

UNKNOWN: I don't know, but I think the policemen in the police office know about Jansen.

MS SEROKE: What are you doing now Solani?
MS SEROKE I am just sitting at home doing nothing.  MS SEROKE 
Is it because you cannot work.

UNKNOWN: Yes, my health is not good.

MS SEROKE: Please explain.

UNKNOWN: Since I was beaten up by these men, what happened is that my left eye is blind.  My left eye in impaired and I have a problem with my left ear.  I cannot hear clearly and my whole body is not functioning well.  If the weather is bad, I feel pain in my chest.  And my parents tried to take me to different doctors.  I do go to doctors now and again.  The doctors said my body is damaged.  They cannot help me, but what they can is to give me pills now and again to stop pain.

MS SEROKE: Are you under your parents now.

UNKNOWN: Yes, my parents are supporting me.

MS SEROKE: What are they doing now.

UNKNOWN: They are pensioner, they are both pensioners.

MS SEROKE: Do you have any other brothers and sisters.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I do, but they are not living with us.  They have their own houses.

MS SEROKE: Are you married.

UNKNOWN: No, I am not married.

MS SEROKE: Do you have any children.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I do.

MS SEROKE: How many.

UNKNOWN: I have two children.

MS SEROKE: Who supports your children.

UNKNOWN: My parents support these two children, but they are staying with their mother.  I cannot support them.  It's just my parents who help me to support  my children.

MS SEROKE: Thank you I will give this opportunity to Patrick' mother, Martha.  Don't take off your earphones, because you have to listen.

MS SEROKE: Greetings to you Martha.  Good morning ma'am.  You are going to tell us about Patrick who is sitting next to you.  Can't Patrick speak for himself, why must you speak for him.

MARTHA MLAWULI: Patrick is sick Ma'am.

MS SEROKE: Please come closer to the mike so that we can hear you.

MARTHA MLAWULI: The reason why I have to speak for Patrick because even initially I am the one who spoke up for him.  Patrick is not well.

MS SEROKE: What is wrong with him?

MARTHA MLAWULI: Patrick was ill from  very early age, but now he is mentally disturbed.  He is mentally disturbed.

MS SEROKE: We understand ma'am.  Could you tell us according to your perspective Patrick's condition.

MARTHA MLAWULI: In July 1985 at two o'clock I was knocking off from work.  I was told that Patrick was taken by Casspir.  The following morning I went to the police station to ask the police not to beat Patrick, because Patrick is not well.  It was locked at the police station.   No-one opened the door for me.  I was asked to knock at the back door.  I knocked until the opened.  There was a white policeman there.  I asked where Patrick was.  They said they have never heard  of him.  I said you took Patrick in a Casspir.  I banged on the counter.  I said my child is here with the police.  
Patrick then leapt from amongst the police.  They had hidden him in the most atrocious way.  Patrick then fell. I asked why are you hiding Patrick.  What has he done.  Why are you treating him like this.  Why would he leap only when I banged the counter.  This man then said he does not know what Patrick has done.  I should go and ask the police in the Casspir.  I went back to the township.  I accosted the Casspir.  I asked the police in the Casspir what police has done.  What Patrick had done.  I said Patrick is not well, he is not healthy.  Please give him back to me.  They refused.  They said is they would find Patrick in the streets, they would shoot him.

MS SEROKE: Please just tell us clearly.  Had they put Patrick in a locker or what.

MARTHA MLAWULI: No, Patrick was between the wall and the locker.  There was a small space between the wall and the locker.  He was all curled up.

MS SEROKE: Do you think they were trying to hide Patrick from you.

MARTHA MLAWULI: Yes, they were.  They did not want me to know that Patrick is present.

MS SEROKE: Please go on ma'am.

MARTHA MLAWULI: I then accosted these police in the Casspir.  They refused.  I told them Patrick is not very healthy, therefore they should not beat him.  They said they would look well after Patrick.  But when they went to drink their tea, the would assault him, asking him questions that he does not know anything about.
Throughout the night they assaulted Patrick.  By the time Patrick got to me, at about twelve, Patrick had marks on his body, a blue eye.  I asked Patrick what happened.  Patrick said he was going to his friends and when he was close to the Roman Catholic church, a Casspir accosted him.  They shot him with a rubber bullet.  They then assaulted him.
They threw him into a Casspir, driving him to the police station, assaulting him the whole time.  They were asking him everything, things that he did not know anything about.  They threw him in a van full of blood, splashing him with water.  They assaulted even him groin area.
There was Chris Lebane next to the van.  They assaulted Patrick saying that Patrick is their enemy.

MS SEROKE: Was Patrick at school at the time.

MARTHA MLAWULI: Yes, Patrick was at school.

MS SEROKE: Was he a member of the youth congress.

MARTHA MLAWULI: I don't think so, because Patrick was quite young.

MS SEROKE: How old was he then.

MARTHA MLAWULI: He was fifteen.  He was in standard two.

MS SEROKE: He was in standard two.

MARTHA MLAWULI: Yes, he was.  After they assaulted Patrick, they took him out of the van that was full of blood.  They detained him.  The next day they told him could go home.

MS SEROKE: Did you try to take Patrick to the doctor.

MARTHA MLAWULI: When he got home, I was too scared to take him to the doctor, because I thought if he is out in the streets, then they would re-arrest him.  I thought a van would be waiting for him somewhere to re-arrest him