Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

KHOZA MGOJO: The person who just opened this hearing for us is Bishop Herious from Roman Catholic.  He is from Eshowe.  He has been a priest for a long time at Umlazi, near Durban.  I know him very well.  We were together from Ixopo.  We are the same age.  We are from one area.  I would like to thank the Bishop for his presence and to give us the dignity and to open these hearings for us.  I've asked Richard Lyster that we should greet or welcome those who are here to give testimony and evidence.  I would also like to welcome those of you who are here.  We thank them very much for their presence.  We would like that those who are present today, they should encourage other people to come and listen, even if it's not for them to come and give testimony.  They must come and listen.  They mustn't just listen over the television, they must encourage each other to come and listen here, so that they comfort people who were affected, because our job is not -we aren't politicians.  Our job is to make sure that we listen to the testimonies that people are giving forward and then we take them to the Parliament to ... (inaudible).  It doesn't matter who is giving the testimony.  We take testimony from people from different organizations, whether Inkatha, ANC ... (inaudible).  We're relying on you.  We are here at Empangeni, because in other areas where we have been the holes are full.  Now, here at Empangeni it's different, it's empty, but we hope that maybe by Wednesday people will start coming.  Before I hand over to Mr Lyster, for him to lead us - he will be the chairman of this hearing - I would like to first introduce my colleagues here with me.  The one at my left-hand side is Mr Lyster.  He is a lawyer, a professional lawyer.  He will be the Chairman of these hearings.  He is also a Commissioner in Maritzburg.  At his left-hand side we have Professor Simangela Magwaza.  She is from the University of Durban/Westville.  She is a lecturer there.  We have asked her to come and help us.  She is in a committee - she is in a Rehabilitation and Reparation Committee.  That committee is responsible for taking grievances or people can ask help from them.  At her left-hand side the there is Dr Gcabashe.  She is from the Human Rights Violation Committee.  And then it's me, I'm one of the Commissioners.  We were chosen from Parliament, me and Richard Lyster.  We are responsible for KwaZulu/Natal and Orange Free State.  Now, before I hand over to Richard, I would all of us to go and shake hands with the witnesses.  The briefers will help us by identifying those witnesses.  Thank you.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
/ON RESUMPTION
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We are running a little late now, so we will start immediately with the first witness this morning, if she can please come up on to the stage.  It's Mrs Mariette Mnyaka.
2A/0 Good morning, Mrs Mnyaka.  Can you hear me?  Can you understand me?  We welcome you here this morning and we know you must feel a little bit nervous, being the first one on stage this morning, but please try and feel as relaxed as possible.  You have come from KwaSokhulu and you are the mother of Cele Mthembu and you have come to tell us about his death.  Before you tell that story, please can I ask you to stand to take the oath.

MARIETTE MNYAKA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  You can take the earphones off now, because Dr Mgojo will help you and he'll speak to you in Zulu.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Mnyaka, the lady you are with, is she going to give evidence or not?

WITNESS:   I will talk.  She'll just remind me of the things that I've forgotten, because she was there when this thing happened.

KHOZA MGOJO: In other words, this person has to take the oath too.

LINDIWE MTHEMBU: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

KHOZA MGOJO: By the way, Lindiwe, how is she related to you?

WITNESS:   She is my daughter-in-law.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Would you please give us a picture of your family.  You are Mrs Mnyaka.  We would like to know if you still have your husband or your husband is late and how many children you have.  Just give us the whole picture of your family.

WITNESS:   Do you want me to mention their names or just to tell you how many there are?

KHOZA MGOJO:  No, even if you don't mention their names, just give us the full picture, whether you have children and whether you have a husband?

WITNESS:   I have eight children, three of them are late now.  I'm only left with five.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You mean you are only left with five kids?

WITNESS:   Yes.  The father died a long time before the three kids died.

KHOZA MGOJO:  These five children, are they daughters or sons?

WITNESS:   Two daughters and one daughter is not married.  Actually, it's three daughters - one is not married - and two sons.  I would like my daughter-in-law to remind me because I am now old and I can't recall everything.  I have two sons and three daughters.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Among these daughters are they married?

WITNESS:   Yes, two of them are married.  Only one of them is not married.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about the sons?

WITNESS:   One is married and one is not.

KHOZA MGOJO:  In other words, you are staying with children at your house?

WITNESS:   Yes, I'm staying with the one who not married - my son who is not married and my daughter who is not married and other three grandchildren.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Your daughter, is she working?

WITNESS:   No, she's not working.  I have also two grandchildren from my late son.  My son is not working as well.

KHOZA MGOJO:  These grandchildren, are they still with you?

WITNESS:  Yes, they are with me.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they at school?

WITNESS:   Yes, two of them are still at school and the youngest is at home.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you know what standards they are in?

WITNESS:   One is in standard 3 and the other one is a first year. Who is paying for their education?   ---   The mother.  If the mother has money she brings the money home.  If she doesn't I also try.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How are you able to pay?

WITNESS:   I am a hawker.  I am selling vegetables and fruit.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now we have the picture, so we would like you to relate the story, more especially the story that happened on the 2nd February 1992, when your son was killed.  Your daughter-in-law can be able to help you, so just relax and relate the story to us.

WITNESS:   There are two children who are my late son's children.  They are at school.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You said your son who is late left two children.

WITNESS:   Yes, he left two children with a girlfriend, not his wife.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How old are they?

WITNESS:   One is 18 years and the other one is 17 years.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What standard are they?

WITNESS:   One is standard 8 and the other is standard 9.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are these two the only children he left?  Is this his wife?

WITNESS:   Yes.  She also has three children.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How many children do you have, Lindiwe?

WITNESS:   (Lindiwe Mthembu replies)  I have three.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How old are they?

WITNESS:   The first-born was born in 1986, the second 1988, and the last one was born in 1991.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they at school?

WITNESS:   Two of them are.  The one who was born in 1986 ... (inaudible).  They are all girls.  And the other one is in first year and the other one is still at home.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, I would like you to relate the story of what actually happened on the 2nd February 1992.  Where was this and what happened?