Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-11-04

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, the next applicant will be Mr Mafanya, Mr Chairperson and in relation to the Heilbron incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mafanya, do you wish to take the oath or do you wish to make an affirmation of the truth?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: (sworn states)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson, just before I start Mr Chairperson, with regard to this applicant he will confirm the affidavit of Mr Khotle as well as his own affidavit which was at that time submitted to the State President for indemnity before the coming to operation of the said amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: That is the one that is on page 31?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Page 31 to page 37, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.
	Mr Mafanya, do you confirm the affidavit of Mr Khotle inasfar as it relates to you and you abide by it's contents as far as it relates to yourself?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: Yes that is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you also confirm that the affidavit at page 31 of the bundle, Mr Chairperson, to page 37 in relation to application for indemnity was made by yourself and also that you abide by these contents?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: I do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, I have no further evidence to lead with regard to this applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No questions Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Motata?

ADV MOTATA: I've got none, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: I have no questions, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mafanya, if you take a look at page 31, is that a mistake down at the bottom?  You say count 1 and count 2 and they happen a month apart from each other, was it not at the same time that those count 1 and count 2 took place?
I think 13th June is wrong, should it read 13th July?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And I see from your application form that you were in fact arrested and charged in respect of this incident?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were convicted and you're currently serving an effective term of 15 years imprisonment?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you confirm, also just for the record here, that at the time of the incident you were a member of the Pan Africanist Congress and a trained member of APLA?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you injured in this incident?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the extent of your injuries?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: They shot me on the ...(indistinct) bone and it went through on the outside.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you hospitalised?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: Yes I was operated on.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you recovered now?

TSEKO WASHINGTON MAFANYA: Not fully but yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you, you may stand down.  Sorry, Mr Mbandazayo, do you have any questions arising?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: None thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, that's the applicants' evidence thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairperson, that is the - I don't know whether to say evidence because I led no evidence, there is no evidence to lead Mr Chairman, but to call one of the victims in the Heilbron operation, Captain Snyman is available.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: He does not intend to testify but he says there is something he wants to put on record?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.  Is it Captain Snyman?
	Captain Snyman, do you wish to take an oath or do you wish to make an affirmation of the truth?

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: I just want to read something.

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't want to give evidence as such?

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: No thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You just want to make a statement, like a "verklaring"?  Okay, you may continue.

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: I just wish to say on thing ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before you start Captain, can I have your full names please?

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: My name is Pieter Daniel Snyman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: I just wish to say that it was difficult to forget this incident and my family went through difficult times but all is well now.  My christian belief says that I cannot judge anybody else because since we are forgiven I also have forgiven and I have to tell the applicants that they have to realise that there are other ways to solve these problems.  I wish that they would change their lives and they would not act in a similar manner.  That is all I wish to say, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Snyman.  Is it correct that at the time of the incident you were the driver of - I mean you were a passenger in the vehicle that was driven?

CAPTAIN SNYMAN: That is correct, I was a passenger.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  No thank you, seeing that you haven't given evidence, there won't be any cross-examination but it's been noted what you've said and it's always appreciated by the Committee to hear from victims to receive statements from them.  Thank you very much for coming, Captain Snyman, we appreciate what you've said.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee, Captain Snyman was in the company of Captain Rossouw who also was injured in the shoot out, actually he was more injured than Captain Snyman, the eye and the brains he's ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I noticed that from the paper that Captain Rossouw received serious injuries.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Indeed yes and Captain Rossouw, I spoke to him last week and I spoke to him again this morning and his lawyer has faxed me a letter, I'll just put a copy in front of the Chair.  If the Chair allows, I can read the contents of his affidavit onto the record?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we've got this affidavit received as said by Mr Mpshe from one Michael Antonie Rossouw who was one of the victims in the Heilbron incident which will be received as Exhibit B and Mr Mpshe will just read the contents of this affidavit sent by Mr Rossouw to this Committee.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chair.
"I, the undersigned, Michael Antonie Rossouw, residing at 3 Lantern Street, Jeffries Bay, declare under oath as follows
	I am a victim of an assault with a firearm on the 13th July 1993 at Heilbron, Free State.  I was shot five times by amongst others, Mr M. I. Khotle, T. W. Mafanya and Z.P. Mabala, whom is as presently applying for Amnesty and which matter will be heard on the 6th November 1998 in Johannesburg, Gauteng.  I do not wish to attend the proceedings for I have no interest in the matter any more because I have forgiven the applicants and are trying to forget the whole incident.  I wish them well with their application and have no objection to them being granted amnesty in the above mentioned matter.  Dated at Jeffries Bay on the 30th day of October 1998.  Signed by deponent and Commissioner of Oaths."

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe.  That then will be all the evidence received in this hearing.  Mr Mbandazayo, do you wish to make submissions?