Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-28

WITNESS:   First of all I have used a word that will give this Commission a question mark.  Let me explain this first.  You know when you talk about intention that we should reconcile, that is it's intention that we should reconcile, and after that they say no, let's share water now.  Who are you going to share water with?  Maybe let me just leave that alone.  Things that happened to us, my pastor, you know things that took place, people who experienced those things, not people who watched this, not people who did not experience this, I am talking about people who experienced this what I am talking about, if you could empathise - you have got to empathise to understand this.  You know, at times you will intend to say "thee" and you will say "the."  I am trying to say if this Truth Commission could get and pull OD Dhlomo and say - and get OD Dhlomo to come forward, and say to OD Dhlomo, "Someone is talking about you that many people have died from the things you have said on the national television about Inkatha.  Inkatha was not going to get devastated, but you provoked Inkatha, and Inkatha got provoked and decided to do something, and people, many people died from what you've said, trying to prophesy.  What are you saying to the people who have lost their beloved ones?" because we are not going to lose our beloved ones if Dhlomo did not appear on the national television trying to provoke Inkatha.  My pastor, if you could stand before the church and say, "Church members, here we do not do these things.  If you as a church member you do this, don't do it, because if you do it you will see and then live."  You will see what will transpired after that in the church.  Even myself, if I could call the people around together and say, "The Gasa, the Miyagi nation, the Miyagi people, the Miyagi tribe, the Gasa tribe, you will see them."  Automatically you will see the people who belong to the family now trying to take action.  What I am trying to say is that Dhlomo, if this Commission could call Dhlomo and say, "Out of many people one has pointed you by finger and said - he was Sibonono Gasa.  You said this and this and that on the certain day, and this is what resulted from that, and what are you saying now in this regard?"  You know, I will also ask Dhlomo and ask him in person, "What were you trying to say on that day?"  One other thing that I am trying to say here.  You cannot bring back the dead, but my house can be renovated and built once again.  There are things that are impossible to do and there are also things that are possible to do.  Well, let me be happy once to just prove to you that Truth Commission is something.  I would like for the Truth Commission to forward this to the President.  I would like to hear the President saying that, "Oh, Gasa's house will be renovated and Gasa will see his nine-roomed big house."  Then I will appreciate the Truth Commission after that.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Gasa, I am not going to say too much, but what I would like to say is that, as you have related your story you have related it in such a way to talk about what the community of Umlazi went through.  You know, you are a person who was fighting for the community, not only for your family, and you have given us a picture of what the community was going through.  And we also know that all the things that happened transpired from that time, which brought many things at Umlazi to get out of proportion and to be damaged.  This results to us as the Commission to look into these things precisely, and especially that you have already said that there are about 15 people who died, and we don't know the members of those people who died, their whereabouts as to where they were.  Maybe you could help also if you could think that you should bring forward the request to the Truth Commission that for Umlazi township this should be done.  Maybe something for the township should be done.

WITNESS:   You've said a mouthful, lady.  What bothers me is that I don't have knowledge as to where - as to the parents of the children who died in the cinema jumping from upstairs down to the floor, what the parents did after that.  But now that we have this - you know, at the time when these things were happening many people did not believe that they were still alive and they were still people.  The way this thing happened people lost hope and never thought there were still people who were worth living, because this picture was so hopeless that people were killed in front of the police.  The police and the soldiers witnessed this.  They were present and they collaborated with the killers, with the attackers.  I want to tell you this, that some of them, some of the children were not buried by their parents.  Most of the Umlazi children, as a chairman of Residents Association, even though I was not allowed - or as I say the children of Umlazi were buried by children around 12 to 14 years.  Those who died, only the children will go and attend the funeral because the parents could not attend the funeral.  Parents decided not to attend the funeral, and only children could go and attend the funeral.  But I don't know - you know, the question you have asked - what can Umlazi do?  What can be done for Umlazi to show that you are sympathising with what Umlazi went through?  You know, people are saying people should feel good about themselves, and you as the Truth Commission, probably you can do something in the light of this problem.  You should come and listen to people discussing when they are just chatting amongst themselves.  They have lost hope.  They don't trust Truth Commission, they don't trust Government, they don't trust any pastor.  They just trust in beer, the liquor.  That's all they trust. I thank you, Mr Gasa.  What you are saying is that the situation is so difficult now, and we have to look into this, especially Umlazi community.

COMMISSIONER: I greet you, Mr Gasa.  To clarify our record here, according to your statement the gentleman you are talking about is Oscar Dhlomo in the statement, but I just heard you saying Odi Dhlomo.  Is that the same person?

WITNESS:   You must remember that you are talking to someone who is now a pensioner, you know, who cannot think right ... (incomplete - end of side B)   ---   (Incomplete) ... will clarify the whole thing, but we just have one OD.

COMMISSIONER: No, I thought you were saying Odi, I didn't think you were saying OD.

WITNESS:   No, I am talking about capital O, full stop, D, full stop.

COMMISSIONER: Secondly, you told us about your daughter who was found dead - stabbed to death.  Was there any investigation that was conducted leading to the reasons why she was killed, what had happened to her?