Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-11-03

LUSINDISO POYO: We went to a place called Dumasi and there was a big board (indistinct) bungalows, that is where the people were picked up who were hitch-hiking next to the road.  We left that place, we went towards Etombo.  We got next to a place called Mfhadla and the car took a turn.  Myself and Noteza were at the back of the bakkie and Fundisele and Mr Kanandyana were in the front in this bakkie.  The car took another direction towards Majola, but another route to Majola, not the one that was known to me.  We joined this Majola route on the other side.  We went to the rally and we got in, there were people there and I think even the General was there at the time.   The car got in the field and took a turn and we went to stop the car on the other side of the ground.  Mula left us in the car, myself and Noteza.  I am not sure where Mr Kanandyana was at the time, but I am sure that myself and Noteza and these people who were hitch-hiking, these people who had been given a lift, were in the car.  When Mula came, he came with Mzwandile.  We were told to get into Mzwandile's car with those people and there was Mqiza.  Mqiza was coming from Majola and I had seen him the day before this rally, on the 19th.  We were taken to a certain house that I did not know, I got to know later, that that was Mqiza's home.  I did not know that that was Mqiza's home, but I got that information later.  I am forgetting something, before getting to Mqiza's home, of which I will apologise, because I am not sure about this one, I am not sure and I cannot remember where did Mzwandile give us the firearms, but I remember that he gave me a pumpgun and when we got to Mqiza's home, I pointed them with this pumpgun and Mula had a firearm that looked more like a 5mm.   Their bags were searched, they wanted to know what was in their bags.  When we moved there, we were told to get into Mzwandile's car by Mzwandile.  We took another route to a place that I was seeing for the very first time, and I was told that that was the route getting to Buche.   When we got there, they also alighted from the vehicle.  Next to the road, there was a tree, a thorn tree.  Just a distance like from this table to that place, to that other table, there was this thorn tree and these people were standing on the other side, and they were questioned, wanting to know who were they and where were they coming from.  There was this misunderstanding, because the others, the other one was telling them not to answer, to give the others a chance to answer.  That is when Mzwandile decided to divide these people into two groups.  These people were on the other part of the slope, the slope was deep, they were on the  high point of the steep and Mula went to the other side and questioned the other group and Mzwandile was questioning the other group.  As we were still listening to that, I heard a gunshot from behind.  I was very shocked because I only remembered afterwards as when I thought about the people who were at the back, because there was nothing that could lead to a fight or conflict, because no one was assaulted at the time.  I got a shock when I heard this gunshot.  After this, Fundisele and Mzwandile were talking and when I listened, to me it looked like Mzwandile was saying he thought he got a signal from Mqiza to fire.  I cannot say for sure today here, what Mzwandile was saying because he said something like - he made a signal and Mqiza misinterpreted that and he shot the people.  Within no time, those people were taken in the car and when Fundisele told Mzwandile to take those people to the hospital, I was also there.  Mzwandile was driving, there was Fundisele and I was also in the car.  There was a misunderstanding, when they were talking about taking the people to the hospital.  I also want to explain the fact that after that shooting, when Mqiza fired,  I couldn't understand a thing thereafter, and I didn't even know.  I couldn't even ascertain whether this was the intention or not, but because those were the people who knew each other and they were just involved in this misunderstanding.  There was this verbal conflict.  I am sure that Mzwandile did not say let us take a turn here, but I am sure that he turned the car, he took a turn and we went passed the scene.  We went to the other side and turned there and stopped the car.  That is where these people were removed from the car.   But while I was in the car, I realised that some people were injured, but I did not see that on the way from Buche to Gomolo, because I was in the front seat of the car, and later I realised that there were people injured there, though I was not sure about the extent of the injuries.  I wanted to get Mzwandile and hear what he was saying, because Mzwandile, just after the shooting, after these people were removed from this car, he issued instructions and he said that no one was going to escape that situation, and no one would go out and tell the other people about it.  If ever anyone would do that and go out and tell people about that incident, he knows very well what was going to happen to him.  These people were again divided into two and the people who were injured, were put on the other side of the bushveld and they were taken to the other side, and those who were not injured, were on the other side, Mzwandile's side to the group where I was in.  He said "Mqiza finish up what you have started with a knife, because the firearm was going to make a noise and alert the people from the village", because it was during the day.  I think that he mentioned that three times or four times, saying that those people should be finished.    No one was doing anything.  Mqiza came with a knife, I am not sure whether this knife was with him or he took it from the other person, but he couldn't do what he was supposed to do.  I am not sure whether he tried or not, but he couldn't finish off what he was supposed to do.  After that, Mzwandile from time to time, would leave and leave us guarding these people up to such time when it was decided that these people were still alive, be taken to another place to be finished off.  That is what was said by Mzwandile in my presence.  We left with these people, four of them if I am not mistaken, we took them and we went towards Nzimbeni, we went passed Qwele.  Mzwandile took a turn there, there was drizzle or light showers and the car stopped there and Mzwandile instructed Mqiza to finish off, that is when these people who were still alive, were shot at the time.  Because of my situation at the time, I couldn't even see how this happened, and actually I feel better today, because at that time, I didn't even know that I would be in that kind of place and I never even thought or anticipated that would happen, but it happened anyway.  We were taken into the van.

INTERPRETER: Something is wrong with the microphone.