Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-05-16

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Yes, he was my brother and I knew everything about him.

ADV TSHONGWENI: You knew everything about him, you say?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Yes.

ADV TSHONGWENI: How long did Mr Plaatjies work in Sharpeville? You say he was working in Sharpeville. How long did he work in Sharpeville, for how long did he work there?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Four years.

JUDGE WILSON: Four years?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Yes.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Other than the four years you have just testified to, where did he work? Before the four years or after the four years?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: He went to work at Sasolburg and he worked at Letabo.

ADV TSHONGWENI: These areas were outside Tamahole, Parys, is that correct?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Yes, that is correct, they are outside Parys.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Did he commute daily to and fro the workplace?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: No, he stayed where he worked.

ADV TSHONGWENI: He stayed where he worked.  Good.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Does that include Sharpeville as well? When he worked in Sharpeville, did he stay there or did he commute from home?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: He stayed there.  He stayed where he worked in Sharpeville. I was in Sebokeng, schooling in Sebokeng.  We were visiting Parys just for a long weekend when this incident took place.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Did you stay with him when he was working in Sharpeville?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Sharpeville and Sebokeng are very close and we saw each other daily and I was staying at the deceased's home.  Because I was schooling in Sebokeng.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: No, that is not clear to me. Did you stay with the deceased during the time when he worked in Sharpeville and while you were attending school in Sebokeng?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I used to visit him.  At times I would just spend a night there.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: I see.  Thank you.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Ms Plaatjies, could you correct me in this regard.  You said he worked in Sharpeville, that is for four years, Sasolburg and what is the other place?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Letabo.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Letabo. In all these places you were staying with him?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: No, I started staying with him when I was schooling in Sebokeng. But I have told you we were very close for this four years that I have mentioned.

ADV TSHONGWENI: No, I didn't ask you whether you were close at that time, but anyway.  You only stayed with him, only in Sharpeville, when he was working in Sharpeville. Is that correct?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: While he was working at other places he was staying there and in Sharpeville he was staying there and we were close to each other.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Ms Plaatjies, is it correct to say that other than Sharpeville, you do not know what your brother was doing, because you were not visiting him regularly as in Sharpeville?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: During the weekends he came home and we would see him.

ADV TSHONGWENI: I don't think you understand my question, Ms Plaatjies.  I say other than Sharpeville, did you know what your brother was doing?

JUDGE WILSON: I don't understand the question either.  Do you mean did she know what work he was doing, where he was employed?  Or do you mean what he was doing outside working hours?

ADV TSHONGWENI: I mean outside working hours, M'Lord. Thank you, I am indebted to you, M'Lord.

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: He was a soccer player.  That is what I know.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Are you telling this Committee that you only know that he was only playing soccer. You don't know other things that he was doing outside work?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: There was nothing he could do.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Ms Plaatjies, let me take you to the scene at the tavern.  How old were you then?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I was 21 years old.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Why did you visit the tavern?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: We were going to enjoy ourselves.

ADV TSHONGWENI: How did you enjoy yourselves?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: It was painful after this incident.

ADV TSHONGWENI: I am not sure if you understood my question. How did you enjoy yourselves in the tavern?  You went there with the purpose of enjoying yourselves.  In which form or manner did you enjoy yourselves?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: It was nice, but these people came in and the whole incident turned sour.

JUDGE WILSON: I don't think you still understand the question. As I understand it, he wants to know what did you do in the tavern?  Did you sing, did you dance, did you drink?  What happened?  We have not been to that tavern.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Thank you, M'Lord.

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: We were drinking.

ADV TSHONGWENI: What type of drinks were you drinking, you, in particular?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I was just drinking cooldrink.

ADV TSHONGWENI: You never took any alcoholic beverage?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Nothing.

ADV TSHONGWENI: In your evidence in chief you said you were inside when your brother was taken out by Mr Cholota, is that correct?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: We were all inside and they took him with.  We were together. He was jiving next to me, inside the tavern.

ADV TSHONGWENI: You didn't hear or see what happened outside?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: No, I was called by people that my brother is lying outside.

ADV TSHONGWENI: You didn't see or hear what was happening outside, yes or no?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I saw when I went outside.

ADV TSHONGWENI: What happened outside, Ms Plaatjies, you didn't see or hear. Is that correct?

JUDGE WILSON: What happened outside before you went outside - she has just told us that she saw what happened when she went outside.  You can't then put the question to her that she didn't see what happened. Unless you confine it to a specific period.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Thank you, M'Lord. I was confining it to the period when she was inside the tavern.

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: When I was in the tavern I couldn't hear anything, because the music was playing. I last saw them going out. It would be impossible to see what is happening outside while you are inside.

ADV TSHONGWENI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV TSHONGWENI

ADV DE JAGER: And when you went outside, what did you see? And what did they do to you?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: They were throwing him with bricks and when I went out I was also thrown with bricks.

ADV DE JAGER: Was your ... (intervention).

JUDGE WILSON: What was he doing?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: He didn't have any chance to do anything.  They were many, he was alone.

JUDGE WILSON: Was he standing up, lying down, what was he doing?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I lost - he was standing, but we ended up on the ground, the two of us.  I lost consciousness.  After I regained it he was still lying there.

ADV DE JAGER: Did they say anything to you before they assaulted you?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: They didn't say anything.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you know the applicants before the incident? Benjamin and William, Mr Thoabala?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: I knew Thoabala because of the actions he was doing in Parys. He was raping the girls.  I knew him because of his activities.

ADV DE JAGER: Were you acquainted or did you hear of the gangs in Parys?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: Yes, I heard of this gang.

ADV DE JAGER: Was there only one gang or several gangs in Parys?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: There was one gang, it was just one gang.

ADV DE JAGER: What was the name of this gang?

JANE NONSHABA PLAATJIES: It was called Noxie Gang.

ADV DE JAGER: And the Noxie gang, what did they do?