Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR DORFLING: In ...(indistinct) we've been asking for such an indication ever since the first meetings.  We were requesting the Committee to approach these, or the Committee to give consideration to approaching these witnesses.  The indication we gave ever since the outset was that we need these witnesses to give evidence, to give an independent account.  As far as the further objectors are concerned, the first objector on the list of witnesses is that - is Mr Mbata, he's not my client, he's Mr Pretorius's client.  I think Mr Pretorius - I'm sorry Mr Mapanhga, I think I mentioned the wrong name, Mr Mpanga.  He's Mr Pretorius's client, but I think Mr Pretorius holds a similar position than me and I would rather like him to address the Committee on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Pretorius?

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, just before I call him, I just wish to confirm that insofar as the views regarding the independent witnesses, etc is concerned that has just been expressed, that also applies to myself.  We also hold the same view that we prefer the independent witnesses to testify before the dependant or the victims are called.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) why the evidence of the independent witnesses can't be heard when they're available and why the evidence of the other witnesses can't be heard in the meanwhile?

MR PRETORIUS: I will then proceed and call Mr Maphanga.  The problem is he's in a wheelchair at this stage and I think we must get a position or a place where he physically can sit and testify.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.

MR PRETORIUS: He cannot take the normal position which was taken in by all the other witnesses.  I wonder if we maybe can make some kind of an arrangement so that we can get him in the position to testify.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

MR LAX: Mr Pretorius, we can assist him by picking his wheelchair up onto the platform here, it wouldn't be that difficult and he could sit by the table where the other witnesses sat, there's sufficient space there.  ...(inaudible) is to let him go out that door over there and round through the passage.

JUDGE NGCOBO: You're calling Mr who?

MR PRETORIUS: Maphanga.

CHAIRPERSON: What are his full names Mr Pretorius.

MR PRETORIUS: Bear with him one moment, his one name is Alfred, I'm just getting my - get the full names.  He's Silwayiphi Alfred Maphanga.  The witness will testify in Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Maphanga?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: (Duly sworn in, states)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please proceed.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, how old are you now?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm 16 years old.

MR PRETORIUS: I am informed that he said he was born in 1960, not that he's sixteen years old, I'll just get confirmation on that.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm 60 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know when you were born, do you know what year you were born in?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I was born in 1965.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, where were you born and where did you grow up?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I was born in Ladysmith and I was brought up in Kwa-Zulu Natal in Gandla.

MR PRETORIUS: What is the highest scholastic achievement you achieved?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Standard two.

MR PRETORIUS: When did you come to Johannesburg?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: During 1983.

MR PRETORIUS: When you came to Johannesburg, what did you do in Johannesburg?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I sold flowers.

MR PRETORIUS: Where did you stay in Johannesburg?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I was staying at Mansfield.

MR PRETORIUS: Are you married?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm not.

MR PRETORIUS: Do you have children?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, I do.

MR PRETORIUS: How many children?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I have seven children.

MR PRETORIUS: Now, Mr Maphanga, shortly before the 28th of March 1994 you heard of a certain march or a certain meeting, is that correct?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, I did hear that we were going to a meeting, not a march.

MR PRETORIUS: Can you explain the occasion where you heard about this meeting and who told you about this meeting, and what was the purpose of this meeting?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I heard at Mansfield that there was going to be a meeting.

MR PRETORIUS: Who told you it?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: We were told by the authorities.

MR PRETORIUS: Which authorities?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: At the hostel, the authorities at the hostel.

MR PRETORIUS: Is that party political authorities or what authorities, can you name the specific person and what is the position which he held?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: He's a leader amongst the hostel community.

MR PRETORIUS: What is his name?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: His name is Mbatha, but Mbatha is now late.

MR PRETORIUS: Is it correct that he's in fact - he was a Zulu Induna?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: That is correct.

MR PRETORIUS: What did Mr Mbatha tell you, was it - let us just get the occasion right, was it during a meeting at the hostel that Mr Mbatha addressed all the people at Mansfield Hostel, was that when you heard about the particular meeting?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, he said that the King had called a meeting and we were supposed to attend that meeting.

MR PRETORIUS: Did he tell you where the meeting would take place?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: He said the meeting was going to be at the Library Gardens.

MR PRETORIUS: Now on the particular day, the 28th of March 1994, how did the people from Mansfield Hostel get to Johannesburg?

CHAIRPERSON: How did he get.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: We boarded the train up to Park Station.

MR PRETORIUS: When you got to Park Station?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: The last time I was conscious was when I was getting out getting - alighting from the train and I don't know what happened thereafter.  I regained my consciousness at the hospital.

MR PRETORIUS: That particular day, were you armed with firearms or anything alike?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No, we were not armed, we had knob kieries as well as shields.

CHAIRPERSON: When he says "we", are you content with the answer he's talking about himself?

MR PRETORIUS: He includes himself.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm referring to us, that is the group from the Mansfield Hostel, not only myself.

MR PRETORIUS: But you yourself didn't have any firearms either.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No, I don't even know a firearm.

MR PRETORIUS: Do you - how would you have know what route to take or how to walk to Library Gardens on that particular day?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, we knew the route to the Library Gardens.

MR PRETORIUS: Would each one take any route that he wanted to or would the group walk together, how would the procession take place?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: We were a group.

MR PRETORIUS: Who walked in front of that group?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: It's the Induna.

MR PRETORIUS: So the Induna led the way and the group just followed behind the Induna?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: That is correct.

MR PRETORIUS: Did you on that day know a place or a building called Shell House?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No.

MR PRETORIUS: Were you ever informed about anything or any place that your group of marchers were supposed to attack?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No I have no knowledge thereof.

MR PRETORIUS: What was your sole purpose for being in Johannesburg on that particular day?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm working here in Johannesburg.

MR PRETORIUS: No, I mean on that particular day when you got injured, why did you come to Johannesburg itself with a group of people, what was your purpose?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: We had gone to a meeting or we were supposed to go to a meeting that was to be held later that day.

MR PRETORIUS: And that was the meeting in support of the Zulu King, is that correct?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: That is correct.