Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-23

CHAIRPERSON: It seems that we have got a problem because one of the committee members, Mr Moloi says that he is not available and.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I will consult with the other parties and we will look into other dates. We had suggested again the first week of June but I have noted the first week of June the whole panel is not available. It is the (...indistinct) public hearing. Perhaps we will think of the second week of June starting on the 8th.

CHAIRPERSON: I think what we can do at this stage is just to try to be pragmatic is to say that if it is established this afternoon that no victim will testify tomorrow morning then and only in that event this matter will be postponed to a date to be arranged. And to a venue still to be arranged. And full notification will be given of such dates and venue when it is arranged. If however it arises that a witness or two whatever will in fact testify or wants to make some submissions tomorrow to the committee then it will be announced to the people who are present. Will they all be going back, well not all but a lot of them be going back in the same buses? Prior to their departure that the matter will be postponed until tomorrow and then in that event I do not know what Mr Hewit's situation is. Will you be travelling back now to?

MR HEWIT: Mr Chairman we have been travelling back to Durban each day so I would not like to have an abortive trip up here tomorrow.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think Mr Hewit if you could leave your telephone number with Mr Mpshe then he can inform you as to whether it is necessary to come back tomorrow.

MR HEWIT: I will be indebted for that Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And if it is not then it is postponed to a date to be arranged. Is that understood? Yes so I just ask the people present here please if you could just remain for a while until such time that it is established by Mr Ngubane whether there will be any evidence. That is of course if you have any interest to come and listen tomorrow. Thank you very much. If we do not sit tomorrow I would just like to take this opportunity to thank the people who have made this hearing possible here in Richards Bay. The decision to come here to Richards Bay was made on very short notice. A lot of work had to be done very quickly and some sterling work was done particularly by Mr Ashley Herslap and Ms Melanie Burts and other people who were involved. It caused great inconvenience to a number of other people as well like the sound technicians with moving their sound equipment up, with the security people who were providing security and the witness protection people. And I would like to thank everybody indeed for everything they did. I would also like to thank the Zululand Chamber of Business for making this wonderful venue available for us. It is really a suitable venue and most convenient. And I would last but certainly not least like to thank all those persons who were present during the hearing for their attendance. The attendance at this hearing was outstanding. Certainly by far the biggest that I have come across at a hearing and the conduct of such a large crowd was exemplary during the hearing. Thank you very much. And also certainly not least I would like to thank the interpreters for sitting in that, it is hot enough not being in a little box, they sat in a little box day in and day out interpreting flat out. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you and unless we see you tomorrow good bye and thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION ON THE 24-04-98

CHAIRPERSON: Morning everybody you will recall yesterday we adjourned earlier to allow the applicants and victims to have a meeting (...indistinct) to decided whether or not there will be any further evidence at this venue. I have been informed that indeed there is going to be further evidence. Before we get to that Mr Lasich. If you could push the red button, the light must come on.

MR LASICH: Thank you Mr Chair my name is Lasich. I have been instructed by Mr Zama to appear today on the basis that there have been certain bits of evidence implicating him in these hearings and through you Mr Chairman I would like to request a copy of the transcript and statements and I (...indistinct) to reserve my right to put questions to these people. I believe these applicants will be testifying in further hearings (...indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you. Sorry before we proceed Mr Lasich sorry could you spell your name?

MR LASICH: It is L-a-s-i-c-h. Initials M J.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lasich yes indeed the name of your client was raised during the evidence given by Mr Mbambo, one of the applicants and as such he in terms of section 30 of the Act has certain rights. And it was mentioned when this matter arose that he will be served with notice in terms of section thirty (30) that the formality will be complied with. And indeed the relevant extract of the proceedings will be made available. And we have not as yet been informed of the exact date or place of the next hearing but there is indeed going to be a further hearing down in or in or near the Mpumalanga, Hammersdale area at which the applicants will be present and an opportunity will be provided for any questioning that you may want to make there. Leading by any evidence by your client or whatever. I think what you must do is perhaps if you could leave your details or make an arrangement with Mr Mpshe, the evidence leader about getting the transcript, etc what the most convenient way to do it will be.

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Chairperson if I can just come in here just for absolute clarity.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Sorry Mr Lasich, Mr Wills is Mr Mbambo's legal representative.

MR LASICH: I have been present the previous hearings in Durban when he was there as well Mr Chairman thank you.

MR WILLS: Yes thanks Mr Chairperson you will note from Mr Mbambo's affidavit that Mr Mbambo has absolutely no involvement in any of the matters that we will be dealing with in Mpumalanga. So if it is necessary for him to be recalled I trust that such application will be made. Because we are not intending to lead him for any other evidence whatsoever.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you Mr Wills. Yes the Act does give implicated persons certain rights and if Mr Lasich feels that it is necessary to put some questions to Mr Mbambo I think he may have to be recalled for that purpose. But it would be just for with regard to the implication of Major Zama that, that questioning would be restricted to yes.

MR HEWIT: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson. Look we will not object that at all. I was just making that point because we were not a hundred percent sure if either Mr Mkhize or Mr Mbambo were going to be present at the Mpumalanga hearings but it appears that it will probably (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: My personal feeling on that Mr Wills is that this is a combined application. It is the application of seven people that is being heard together and therefore it is all of theirs hearings and I think it would probably be better if they were present at those hearings. That is what I would have thought because it is their application as such. And one never knows although they were not involved something might crop up somewhere along the line and which might require you to take instructions on a point or whatever. It would be more convenient I think if all the applicants were present at that hearing as well, that resumed hearing.

MR HEWIT: Yes thank you for clearing that up for me Mr Chairperson. I appreciate that. That will also assist with those instructing me. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ngubane have you anything to say about the meeting yesterday and witnesses to be called today as a result thereof?

MR NGUBANE: Yes Mr Chairman I will only call one witness but I believe that Mr Stewart has something to say to the Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Stewart?