Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-11

MR NTSEBEZA: In the context of trying to understand the McEwan Strategy he did mention something about counter-mobilisation as being part and parcel of the Strategy that was adopted in dealing with unrest situations, and I see that this secret document from the State Security Council also deals with counter-mobilisation.  I think it's item no.11 on the third page hereof.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Correct Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Can you read that into the record, what it says.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Paragraph 11 reads,
"Counter-mobilisation -  There should be attempted to motivate the population of the Black areas to stand up against the revolutionaries.
(a) Counter-mobilisation must be done on a small scale and regional basis.
 (b) Positive resistance movements should be encouraged.  That should be done in a clandestine fashion".

MR NTSEBEZA: Okay that's all.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: So if I can get the nub of this, the State Security Council sends a document to all the structures, including your structure.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I received it from the one up, yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.  In that document the State Security Council is saying efforts should be made to motivate the population of the Black residential areas to rise up against revolutionaries.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Quite so.

MR NTSEBEZA: And it sort-of prescribes the manner in which it should be done.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Right.

MR NTSEBEZA: It says,
"Counter-mobilisation should be executed on small and on regional level..."
and it says,
"Positive resistance movements should be encouraged, it should be done in a clandestine level".

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now what did you understand this to be?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Alright.  I understood that to be whatever way it was going to be done is to communicate with the population in Black areas, exactly what it says, and to motivate them to come into resistance against the revolutionaries.  And I think that is how I read it.

MR NTSEBEZA: In fact there was a meeting at which this document was discussed was there not?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I wouldn't know about it Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: There does seem to be a meeting at which you were present which set out guidelines with reference ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Ja.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Alright, there was a meeting, quite right, and I took minutes at that meeting and ...(intervention)

MR NTSEBEZA: Is that the meeting at which there is also a document also marked "Secret" ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: At which those who were present are listed as Brigadier Otto, "Voorsitter Mini-GBS Kaapstad", Chairman of the Mini-JMC Cape Town.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Quite right.

MR NTSEBEZA: Colonel M G Mans, Divisional Inspector.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Colonel Schroeder Chairman of the Mini-JMC Athlone.  Colonel van Zyl, Chairman of the Mini-JMC Wynberg.  Lt Colonel Schreuder, Chairman Mini-JMC Bellville.  Major Odendal, S-JMC.  JOC and all the other things.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Ja.

MR NTSEBEZA: And then there was yourself.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Myself, yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now what did you understand positive resistance movements to be referring to, when you had a discussion at which these guidelines have been discussed and the State Security Council says "positive resistance movements must be encouraged".

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: And it says it must be done on a clandestine level.  I appreciate you were a secretary, you were taking notes and minutes but there was a discussion.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Ja.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: If we look at this document in itself, I think we should read another document that goes with this document.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, which one is that?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: There's a memorandum attached to this one.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.  Is that the memorandum, also marked "Geheim"?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: "Secret", WP S-JMC dated 26 March 1986?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did you draft that memorandum?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: That was what was coming from the discussions.

MR NTSEBEZA: In other words I would like to get a clearer picture.  The first document I referred to, the Top Secret document from the State Security Council.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Came, and there was a discussion.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: By the people at the ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: At the S-JMC.

MR NTSEBEZA: At the S-JMC whose names are indicated and because you were secretary you were also at that meeting.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Right.  And flowing out of that there was a memo which you now have referred me to.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes, quite.

MR NTSEBEZA: And did that memo then ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Deal with that document from General Wandrag.

MR NTSEBEZA: Oh I see.  Did it - what would you like to ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I would like to bring under the attention of the Chairlady paragraph 5.C.

MR NTSEBEZA: Can you read that into the record?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: I will - Afrikaans first and then I will explain it in English Sir.
"Regarding the revolutionary leaders a fixed committee, clandestine operations should attempt to establish communication links.  This committee should involve themselves full time although the S-JMC and the KOMKOM is already doing that, but because of other responsibilities they cannot do that full time".

MR NTSEBEZA: So that was the propaganda aim of, that was the recommendation as to how the propaganda should be ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: It was a recommendation Sir, as to how we saw the letter which had been received from General Wandrag.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: How it actually should be done.

MR NTSEBEZA: It was intended to discredit what was perceived to be revolutionary leaders?

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Yes Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: And in order to do that effectively the recommendation was that a standing committee ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Had to be established.

MR NTSEBEZA: Had to establish clandestine operations.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: But the committee had to be established as well Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Oh I see.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: There was never a committee established on my level.

MR NTSEBEZA: You are not on trial.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: No I am just explaining that I - I am explaining the document Sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Can I bring your attention to paragraph 7 of that particular document.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Alright.
"Counter-mobilisation.
 This is first and foremost a specialised operation of the recommended clandestine committee of the S-JMC, when the climate is right and it can be created".
The next paragraph.
"In this regard from WP South African Defence Force Command it's attempted to instigate the Fathers against the Comrades".

MR NTSEBEZA: So it was your recommendation if I ...(intervention)

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: No Sir - may I?

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: If we look at my comments in paragraph 7 I say, first of all this is a specialised operation of the proposed clandestine committee, which I referred to in that other document.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes.

TREVOR GRIFFITHS VERMEULEN: Of the S-JMC.  When the climate for that was ready and could be used.  But it is already at the level of the Western Province South African Defence Force Command, so the Fathers can be brought against the Comrades.