Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-11-01

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, I'm going to allow you to answer this question rather than you client because I've noticed that legal technicalities rather confuse untrained people.  What other applications in respect of action, what is the answer?  What offences in other words?

MR MBANDAZAYO: The offences, Chairperson, which the applicant is applying for is the murder in the first instant.

CHAIRPERSON: Well that is the - which is offence is that?  The New Brighton incident.  Are you talking about the New Brighton incident?

MR MBANDAZAYO: The New Brighton incident, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Only murder?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Murder and robbery, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And robbery.  Now do we know the identity of the person in respect of the murder charge or murder count?
I can't seem to find a name in the bundle, I don't know.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, also myself I've tried you know, in fact Chairperson, in fact to be frank that was the other reason that this matter came in for hearing, it was in January and it was because of that it was not heard, it was to investigate the name of the victim which of course all of us did not come up with.

MR MAPOMA: Chair, if I may assist?  The name is Norman Beaton who was the security guard.   Norman Beaton, the surname is B-E-A-T-O-N and the next-of-kin who was notified is Cyril Beaton, the father to the deceased person.

CHAIRPERSON: And we're talking of robbery in respect of a firearm?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: From the deceased?

MR MBANDAZAYO: From the deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: So I can assume without the witness saying so that that person died after being shot by the applicant?

MR MAPOMA: He died as a result of that incident.

CHAIRPERSON: So we've got murder and robber of Mr Norman Beaton in the New Brighton incident?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Is there anything else he's applying for?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, the other incident, the other he is applying for although it was not in the application of the possession of arms and ammunition because he had ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: In respect of this murder?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, a 7.5 which he was carrying on the day in question.

CHAIRPERSON: Unlawful possession?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR MBANDAZAYO: And the second incident Chairperson, is the robbery and of course the possession of .38.

CHAIRPERSON: Robbery of what?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Robbery, Chairperson, they robbed an amount of about R93 000 at Costi, Chairperson, the second incident in which they were arrested as a result of being chased, Chairperson.  I understand it's written here as Unity Agencies.

CHAIRPERSON: You say about R93 000?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson, about R93 000 according to the applicant is what transpired in court that it was an amount of about R93 000.

CHAIRPERSON: And also unlawful possession of firearms?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Anything else?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson that is all that the applicant is applying for regarding these two incidents.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's all Chairperson, I was just confirming with the applicant regarding the others.  He confirms that he was never charged for the other incidents that's why he never applied for the taking of the car at the time when they were running away.

CHAIRPERSON: Well if you had to mention it, it's a bit too late because it doesn't appear.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson, that's another problem I faced when I was consulting with him in prison, Chairperson, we couldn't because it's outside the date.

CHAIRPERSON: The date.  Mr Mbandazayo, we don't need any argument from you on these two matters, I just want to find out from Mr Mapomo what his attitude is to the application.

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I have no objections.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we'll reserve judgement on this matter.  We'll adjourn.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS