Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-16

MR BOTMA: Let me rephrase my question. Where were you standing? Let me ask you simply where were you standing at the time when you were demanding the firearm you were standing next to this truck? First of all was the door of the truck open or close?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I was standing by the passenger's side, the door. Both doors were closed. The people that were busy were selling from behind the truck. I was standing by the door outside the truck.

MR BOTMA: With both your feet on the ground? Your feet were on the ground?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes.

MR BOTMA: Now if you look at this truck, were you looking upwards towards the people or were you on the same level as they were, as they were seated?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Where I was standing it is a village, there are sloped. They were parked next to the road. Where I was standing it was a bit higher than where the truck was parking. Therefore I could see both people. It was not difficult for me to see people inside the truck.

MR BOTMA: So you were on the same level as they were? Position they were seated in the truck, your shoulder and their shoulders were more or less on the same height?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Not that we were all at the same level but I could see them. They were in my view. I could see them. I did not have any difficulty.

MR BOTMA: How far were you standing away from this door?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Two or three steps from the door.

MR LAX: Sorry by steps do you mean paces?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes Sir.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR BOTMA: Now Mike was bending towards the cubbyhole of the vehicle and then you fired a shot at him, is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes that is correct.

MR BOTMA: And according to your own evidence you are a trained gunman, you know how to use a firearm and how to aim with a firearm. Is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: For which part of his body were you aiming?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I was aiming at him from the top of his head downwards.

MR BOTMA: And that whole portion of his body was visible from where you were, from his head downwards? Or let me ask you this way. Which part of his body was visible when you aimed at him?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: From his head to his waist. The truck was built in such a way that there was glass where the witness is pointing. (The interpreter could not see which area the applicant was pointing at.)

CHAIRPERSON: The window has a extension downwards towards the front of the vehicle and that is what he was pointing at. He can there see through that lower down.

MR LAX: Just for the record it appears there is a dark portion below the window on the photocopy we have of the vehicle.

MR BOTMA: And what happened then? You fired a shot, how did it come about that Donne was shot?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I think that she got shocked from the sound. The father was going towards the cabinhole, I went backwards, I did not know what she was going to do. It all happened very fast, very quickly. (The applicant is explaining to the interpreter what the arc of fire is.)

MR LAX: What the what is sorry?
(He mentioned that Donne was in his arc of fire.)

MR LAX: Arc of fire okay. We understand what that is. He said I would explain it to him?
(Yes he did Sir)

MR LAX: Arc of fire means the range in an arc from your barrel.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: It all happened very quickly. She was in my arc of fire. I shot intending to shoot Mr Meyers. Unfortunately I missed him and he tried to run away. That is how I got to shoot Donne.

MR BOTMA: Let's get back to this version of yours.

ADV GCABASHE: Can I just get one little thing straight? Are you suggesting the windows were open or shut? That is the only little bit I am trying to understand. As you shot into the car?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: They were open, both windows on both sides.

MR BOTMA: Well your evidence is that he bended over towards the cubbyhole of the truck. So his face was much lower than that of Donne. Is it correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: And you were aiming for an area from his face downwards, is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: And she was still seated upright in the truck, is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: And that was the position at the time you fired the shot?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: This all happened very quickly. Mike did not inform me that he is reaching out for his weapon. After I demanded a gun from him he reached for his cabinhole, I took a few steps backwards not knowing what he was doing at the same time the passenger was also moving. This is why she got shot on the face. After the shot Mike started to run away. After the shot Donne still tried to move. I lost sight of Mr Meyers for a moment and I thought that I would not be able to shoot at him properly because I do not know what he was trying to say.
(The interpreter apologises. Could the applicant please repeat the last part of his answer?)

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I did not know what Mike was trying to reach for at his cabinhole.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was the cubbyhole that you are talking about?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: It is usually on your left hand side of the car.

CHAIRPERSON: And with what hand was he reaching?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I think that he was using his left hand side but I do not really take note of that. But his movement disturbed me. He must have used his left hand because his left hand was closer to the cubbyhole than his right hand.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know if he was left handed?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: No I do not know.

ADV SANDI: After he was shot did you bother to find out what exactly he was trying to get out of his cubbyhole?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: After the sound that hit Donne, this happened quickly he then got out of the truck and there was another sound. The villagers were then running away because they did not know what was happening. I then said to my co-accused that we must run off.

ADV SANDI: Did you go to the cubbyhole?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry could I go back before we move on? Did you say a moment ago that after you had fired the shot, you thought that Mike was still moving and would get away before you could shoot him properly.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: That he would be able to run away?

CHAIRPERSON: Before you could shoot him properly, did he get out of the vehicle, did you say that?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Could somebody explain this question to me?

CHAIRPERSON: It is perfectly simple. Did you say that after you had fired at Donne and she was still moving, Mike moved and you thought he was going to get away before you could shoot him properly?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Are you asking before Donne was shot?

CHAIRPERSON: No after?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: No, at that time Meyers was already outside the truck.

CHAIRPERSON: What was he outside the truck before she was shot?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: No, let me explain to you again. I got to the truck, I pointed the revolver towards Mike, I demanded his weapon. He reached for his cubbyhole, I moved a few steps backwards. I did not know what he was going to do. I thought that he is reaching out for his gun. I shot, unfortunately Donne got shot in the face. After the sound he tried to get out of the truck and tried to run away and then there was another sound that got him whilst he was outside the truck.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes but the question was simply did you say a few minutes ago, we can check it on the record later. That Donne had been shot, was still moving and you thought Mike would escape before you could shoot him properly? If you do not remember tell me. I do not want a long explanation. Can you remember saying that a few minutes ago or can't you? It is a very simple question.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Please summarise the question?