Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

MRS SHABALALA: All right.  On the 5th of October, four o'clock in the morning I heard a knock at the door.  When I heard this knock I sounded like this person has been knocking for a long time.  In my house I have a back room building and one of my girls is sleeping outside and my boy outside. I am the one inside the big house.  (PAUSE).
 I had this feeling that this person has been knocking for a long time. I woke up, I went to the dining room. I saw a torch light. I opened the curtain.  When I opened the curtain I saw a White man wearing a police uniform.  He explained to me and said we are police, but my mind was still at my husband's mind, who had just passed away in August. I thought maybe they are here because they needed to talk something about that.  I opened the door.  When I opened the door for them, they said would you please open the gate. I was so dull at that time, I couldn't think anything. I went and then I left through the dining room door. I saw three White boers. They were driving a Golf, a white Golf. They said to me open the gate. I opened the
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gate.  In other words, these White guys were inside my yard, they jumped the fence, because the other three were outside the gate. I opened the gate for them, I brought them inside my house. I sat down and I was still busy, I couldn't think.  I could see that they were wearing uniforms but I didn't think that I should take their numbers or names. I just looked at the uniforms and I was satisfied.
 I sat down and the other one sat down, the other three stood up.  They said to me they are looking for Shadrick. Shadrick is my husband, the father of my kids. I told them Shadrick is late, he is dead.  They produced a photograph.  They said to me do you know this person. I looked at the photograph, I said yes, I know.  They said who is this person.  I said it is my son. They said oh, we are sorry, we didn't come here to put more pain on top of the pain that you have, because this son of yours is dead.  I said how is he dead, what must I do?  They said if you want to know, go to Pretoria police station and they will explain everything to you, but because they have already been buried in one grave, go there with R4 000,00.
 I kept quiet. They gave me the photograph, his photograph.  I sat there, I was quiet. I said what about Lolo.  They said to me no, we are not talking about Lolo, we are talking about your son.  
 After they left, my kids woke up, I explained everything to them and my kids were shocked. I explained to my family and my family was also shocked. They asked me where did they bury them. I said I don't know. 
 Later on then Mr Sono's family came to me and told me that we are going to Cape Town because we are still seeking explanations about our kids' disappearance.  Then Mr Sono's
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family went to Cape Town.  When they came back, I think after a day, after a day they came back.  I saw this policeman Mr Dempsey. Mr Dempsey, when he came, he wasn't alone, he came with lots of cars, they surrounded our house.  They came to my house.  They said to me we have heard Mrs Sono on television that you as well who have lost your child.  Then they asked me where did you get that story?  I told them the policemen came one day here and they told me. They asked me what did you do after they told you?  I said I didn't do anything because they told me about R4 000,00 which I didn't have, I don't have today, I don't have someone who is working, even my husband has just passed away.  Then I asked Mr Dempsey why are you bringing so many cars and you took my son's photograph and you have been making a fool out of me, you said, you have promised that you are going to look and try and investigate about this thing, but he never came back to me. He said to me that is because I have no news to bring back. I said to him what about Lolo.  So he said to me don't tell me about Lolo, because his family thinks that they are clever.
 Because we have lost kids, we are crying, we really want to know where our kids are.  We know that you will die one day, but it is nice to know where you have buried your blood.  Like now, I feel okay, because I know where I buried my husband.  Like him, I heard that he was shot and then I went there. I brought my husband and I buried him. But I also want to do the same with my child.  
 If Winnie did do this, I am asking and I am pleading with her, to please come forward and explain to us why she killed them and where she buried them.  We just want to know where they are.
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CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mrs Shabalala.  I will ask you a few questions and then I will ask my colleague Commissioners to ask you questions as well, if they have something to ask you.  Even to you I will say the same thing which I have been saying to other people. It is really difficult what you went through. On the statement we also have something about your husband, Mr Shabalala who was shot.  Can you please explain to us about that.

MRS SHABALALA: My husband was at work. When he came back we found that one person died at work.  Then people from work gave him money to take the money to that colleague's house.  When he left and brought the money there, I received a call, asking me what car was he driving.  Then they said to me, they actually asked me what kind of car he was driving. My kids explained.  Then they said to me okay, we heard that what car is he driving and then they said to me when they shot him, he was driving and he lost control.  The car hit a house.  When I asked how it happened, people said they saw two cars driving in a similar direction, in an opposite direction and one car was supposed to turn and the other two turned.  Then we all we heard was gunfire. It was in 1994 when he died and police were there.  The police took statements. Even now this case has not been heard yet.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mamma Shabalala.  In your statement you have listed something, for instance one day you were sitting when boys came and they were looking for your sons.  Did they mention their names?

MRS SHABALALA: No, we didn't even ask them their names.

CHAIRPERSON: It didn't appear to you that you need to know their names, after you have heard that Lolo has just disappeared?  You didn't want to know their names.
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MRS SHABALALA: No, when they came it wasn't - at that time we didn't know for sure that Lolo has disappeared.

CHAIRPERSON: This Lolo that you are talking about, is he the same one whose parents were just now talking about him?

MRS SHABALALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You also said one day police came to tell you that your son has just died and has been buried.  Did you take the names of the police, those who said you need to go to the Pretoria police station?

MRS SHABALALA: No, I didn't, because I couldn't think very well, because my mind was still thinking about my husband, because about my son, the event occurred long before his father's death.  So on my mind I just had this recent incident, my husband's incident.  So when they came with my son's story, it wasn't on my mind, plus they needed to have R4 000,00, which I didn't have.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they give you the name of the police station which they said you must go to?

MRS SHABALALA: No, they didn't, they just said to me I must go to Pretoria.  They also gave me a photograph of my son.  After they gave me my son's photograph, Dempsey took this photograph and he said to me he is asking for this photograph.  So he said he is going to look and investigate actually whether my son has really died. So Dempsey took the photograph.  Late at night he sent the policeman to come and take a statement from me. So I gave them a statement again.