Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

ADV GCABASHE: I would like to ask one thing here.  You also talked about Shell House, that they started at Shell House.  Where do you get this information?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: One guy who was working at a hotel said so.  They came, these men came and asked the man what time do they open at the hotel.

ADV GCABASHE: And now you talked about street kids.  Where did you get this news as well?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: These kids were sleeping outside the shop.  Two of them were working for a coloured lady, they were selling her stuff in corner Brooklyn and Bree.  These two kids were the ones who told the man who parked the car that his car was on fire and he answered them and said it wasn't it on fire but there was a bomb in that car.  When I arrived there they were there, they were injured, these boys.

ADV GCABASHE: Did you talk to them?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes I did.

ADV GCABASHE: Did they told you this?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes they told me, they said the white man who parked the car was wearing a Russian uniform and they also told me that they've spoken to a guy who is working in a hotel, you can ask the guy as to what they've said to him.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions?

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you very much, none.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Anybody else have questions?

MS VAN DER WALT: So therefore you say that these two children who gave you the version of what you have told us here that these persons were wearing Russian uniforms, is that correct?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: He was wearing a Russian hat, not uniform, not the full uniform.

MS VAN DER WALT: But did these two street children that you have referred to tell you this?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes.

INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please repeat what she said?

MS VAN DER WALT: When did these two young boys pass away?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: When they were in hospital.  I'm not talking about these other ones who were injured outside the shop, I'm talking about these two they died in hospital.

MS VAN DER WALT: But your evidence has been and I want to put it to you, Advocate Gcabashe did actually retrieve this from you, but I'm putting it to you that this is all based on hearsay and you told the Honourable Advocate that these two children who spoke to these people were the two that were injured, is that correct?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes that is correct.  These two children who were selling at the corner are the ones who told me that a white man parked the car and they told the white man that your car was burning and he said that the car wasn't burning but there was a bomb in it.  Besides those two there were other two who were sleeping outside my shop.

MS VAN DER WALT: And which ones passed away?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Four of them died.  When I arrived there two of them were injured and the other two had been taken to hospital.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was no such evidence before the Supreme Court before Judge Flemming that street children had died or that had spoken to the people who had planted the bomb and who were told that the car was not on fire but that there was a bomb in the car.

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: That's why I find it very hard to forgive these men because the truth is not heard, not the whole truth has been heard about this matter.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why didn't you make a statement to the police and tell the truth in that statement?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I personally, I don't have any trust on policemen.

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

MS CAMBANIS: Sorry Mr Chair ...[intervention]

MR MALAN: Mrs Seako, may I just ask you, did you tell Ms Cambanis what you've told us now, earlier?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: No I didn't tell her before, I only told her about Thokozile who is my cousin.

MR MALAN: While you are talking her, in which way are you related?  How is she your cousin?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: She's my cousin.

MR MALAN: Are your mothers sisters or are your fathers brothers or in which way is she your cousin?  How is she related to you?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: We are both Maduna.  Our last names are Maduna.

MR MALAN: Are her parents still alive?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Thokozile's mother died after the incident.  After we buried Thokozile, Thokozile's mother got ill and she died.

MR MALAN: And her father?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: He died a long time ago.

MR MALAN: Was she married?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes.

MR MALAN: Does she have children?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Two.

MR MALAN: Can you help us with the addresses there.  Will you please just to one of our people give us the information as to exactly where her direct relatives could be traced.  But let me take you back to this other thing.  Why did you not tell your lawyer about the street children?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Like I said before that those were street kids and no one was taking care of them and no one actually came on their behalf even to the court, no one ever stood for them.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you tell your lawyer that before today?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I met this lawyer and I didn't have money, I didn't have money to pay for a lawyer, I don't even know even now who paid her.  So I didn't want to complicate my case, that's why I didn't say anything about the street kids.

MR MALAN: Did she not ask you about any - about your knowledge of this bombing, of this incident.  Were you not asked anything about your knowledge of the bombing?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: She did ask me.

MR MALAN: What did she ask you?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: She asked me of the victims of Bree Street and if there were people that I know in Bree Street.  I only mentioned those who were alive and Thokozile was the only one who was late whom I've mentioned.

MR MALAN: And the street kids, are they not late?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I didn't know who paid the lawyer and I didn't know if I was supposed to pay for the street kids as well so I was just representing Thokozile.

MR MALAN: Thank you Chair.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you tell your lawyer about the fact that Ms Fani was married and that she has children?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: No I didn't.

ADV BOSMAN: The children - how old are they?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: I am not sure.   I can find out and I'll give it to my lawyer.

CHAIRPERSON: Who are they staying with now?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Hershel, with their father.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you tell the father that you were coming to this hearing?  The children's father?

YALISWA RITA SEAKO: Yes I've told the father.  He is in Natal and he's not working but he said I must come and I must report back to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis, is Mrs Skosana or both of them, Mr and Mrs, do they want to give evidence?  Oh, okay fine.  Are you done Ms Cambanis?

MS CAMBANIS: Mrs Joan Keane would like to make a short statement to the Committee.  She is present.  I have a client, Joan Fubbs, who is hospitalised.  I don't have a statement prepared for her but will undertake to pass that on to Mr Prior but Mrs Keane is present.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name?

MS CAMBANIS: Joan Keane.  I'm advised if we could please take an adjournment because we've been here since 9 o'clock and perhaps finish up.  It's not a long statement.  My client is not feeling well.

CHAIRPERSON: Well she can take a break, we'll hear Mr Kriel's - you're not calling anyone?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Keane can take a break if she wants.
Mr Prior have you got any witnesses?

ADV PRIOR: I'll call Mrs Gumbi.

MS CAMBANIS: Mr Chairman, may I also be excused for a few minutes?

CHAIRPERSON: Okay we'll take a break.  A short one.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Gumbi, which language would you prefer to use?

NOKWAZI GUMBI: (sworn states)

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mrs Gumbi you are a victim of the bomb attack that occurred in Bree Street, Johannesburg, on the 24th April 1994, is that correct?