Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-03

MR LAX: Why haven't you applied for amnesty for being in possession of that firearm, because that is an offence?  It has to be in his application.

CHAIRPERSON: It is not on his form at all.

MR LAX: It is not on his form at all.

ZUKILE MBAMBO: The fact that I was keeping a gun, the TRC they said they want, they said they want to know about the actions that took place from 1960 up to 1994.  Like these cases that we came here for.
	That gun was not, that gun did not belong to APLA.  That gun did not have anything to do with political organisations, the gun that I had, the firearm that I had.  That is why I did not include that in my application.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of gun was it?

ZUKILE MBAMBO: It was a 9 mm.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any further witnesses?

MS COLLETT: No further witnesses Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I propose to call Captain Hussan briefly on the Police's operation at Da Gama, he shouldn't take too long, and I propose just to call finally Mrs Anvari just to put on record the nature of the activities of the Bahai Church.
	The lady who was present in the Church, unfortunately at the luncheon adjournment I told her that I wouldn't be calling her, and then the Committee had indicated that it might be desirable to call her.  She had since left Mr Chairman, but in any event I understand the matter is to stand adjourned until the 14th, and I can make arrangements for her to be here on that day.
	I don't know whether my learned friend wishes to hand into the record, hand up, and form part of the record, the testimony of Letlapo Palelo's evidence at the Bahai trial in Bisho.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we can skip I and call it J, because I sometimes becomes confusing, but is this the documents (indistinct) case number CCI ... I understand that we are in possession of this today as a result of your secretary and other staff having worked long hours to prepare the record, despite the fact that you requested that it be transcribed weeks, if not months ago and that the TRC did the same, but were told that it was impossible to get a copy, so you had to arrange to have it typed yourself, and we are extremely grateful to you.
	This is not something that you should have to do, it is something that should be done by the people responsible for preparing records.

MS COLLETT: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Yes, we have done this transcription, there are inaudible because it appears that the microphones weren't working too well at the Bisho High Court.  I do wish to hand it in.
	I have read it myself, it seems to reflect quite accurately what was said at the trial by Mpahlela.  There are a words that sounds a bit strange, but the gist of it is there, and I wish this to become part of this record in support of the testimony of the two applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly we will take it in, in Exhibit J.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I maybe make a suggestion just in case any question later on is raised regarding the authenticity thereof, that the person who actually did the transcription, simply make a certificate that it was done correctly.
	My copy certainly doesn't have any certification, that she did it to the best of her ability or the usual certification that one appends to it, thank  you.

MS COLLETT: I don't have a problem with that Mr Chairman, I will let the two ladies who did it, do it.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS COLLETT: And the tape is available if anybody would like to listen to it.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, with your permission, I will then call Captain Hussan.  Mr Chairman, may I indicate at this stage Hussan's statement appears in the bundle that I indicated earlier, has not been handed up.
	It is the bundle with the blue edging, it is simply the bundle of statements relating to Da Gama, his statement appears.

CHAIRPERSON: These bundles haven't been given numbers, have they?

MR PRIOR: No Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You are going to start referring to them, perhaps we should.  The one starting (indistinct) Victor Klaas can be K1, the one starting Bruce Kettles, K2, and the third one rifle grenade attack, K3.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps I should have made it clear, that we haven't had the opportunity of reading the record that has just been made available to us and it may be that once we have, there are other matters we wish to raise, arising from it.  So it will go in subject to that.

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: (sworn states)

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  You are a Captain in the South African Police Services, at present, is that correct?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Stationed in East London?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Are you attached to any Unit?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: I am attached to the Public Order Policing Unit.

MR PRIOR: During March of 1994, Mr Chairman, have you found the ...

CHAIRPERSON: What page?

MR PRIOR: I see it is also unmarked.

CHAIRPERSON: Mine is paginated.

MR PRIOR: It is just before the post mortem report.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  Is it correct that on the 28th of March 1994, you were a Warrant Officer and attached to the Internal Stability Unit at East London?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Is it also correct that on that day at approximately 7.25 am, you had received an instruction from Captain Bezuidenhout to mobilise your section and proceed to the Da Gama factory where they had an attack, or had taken place or was in the process of taking place?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: You have before you a statement which you made, an affidavit, is that correct?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct sir.

MR PRIOR: Which you made on the 25th of October 1994?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Do you confirm the contents of that statement?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: I do.

MR PRIOR: And you wish to refer to that statement in your evidence?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: I do yes.

MR PRIOR: Are the contents correct as you remember them?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: They are.

MR PRIOR: In your Unit, as you described, you at the Head of a Unit, was Constable Williams a member?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: Yes, he was in my section at the time.

MR PRIOR: And he died in that contact, is that correct, on that morning?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That is correct yes.

MR PRIOR: Could you tell the Committee briefly what happened, when you arrived at Da Gama?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: When we arrived at the scene at Da Gama, we were instructed to move into a dense bush.  That would be from the Black Road side, and move towards Da Gama in order to sweep the bush and to flush out any suspects that might be hiding in the bush, and also to do a follow up in the direction of Mdantsane, to follow the suspects as the information that we had received was that they were fleeing in that direction.

MR PRIOR: Could you just pause there.  I would like to show you a set of photographs, aerial photographs, thank you Mr Chairman.  Just quickly, photographs 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, do they depict the scene as you remember it?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: Yes, they do.

MR PRIOR: All right, maybe if we can just refer to photograph 5, that seems to give a fair idea of the area and maybe you could talk the Committee through your evidence referring to points on photograph 5.

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: Okay, when we moved in, we were on the right hand side of the photograph, on the Black Road which is not shown on the photograph.

MR PRIOR: Is that near the railway line?

STEVEN TREVOR HUSSAN: That would be near the railway line, yes.  We moved in from that direction, across the railway line and started moving towards Mdantsane, that would be towards the left and bottom side of the photograph, amongst that bush there.
	As we were moving down the embankment, the information came that the suspects had fled in the direction of Mdantsane, so we moved in that direction.  As the right hand ...