Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-03-28

MR DUKADA: And your evidence if I heard you correctly during the - at the time there was the bombing of the house, you were stationed behind the forest besieging the premises of the Jafta family together with other policemen?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: Was there any discussion first as to whether the
house of the Jafta family should be bombed in your presence or how did it get burned?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: We just heard the shooting, handgrenades and nothing was said to us.

MR DUKADA: And you did not know who even issued instructions that the house should be gutted down?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I cannot say who said that but it was one of the security officers who were there.

MR DUKADA: Mr Madikizela when he was cross-examining you about the burning down of the Jafta family, amongst other things he put it to you that no orders were given or issued to destroy the house of the Jafta family by members of the security branch, do you remember that?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: And if no orders were given to destroy the house of the Jafta family, were any members of the security branch subsequently charged criminally for that wrongful conduct?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: No.

MR DUKADA: Was there any member of the security branch charged with misconduct, that is for having exceeded the authority whilst deployed there?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: No.

MR DUKADA: Now am I correct - I hope Mr Chairperson and Mr Mapoma will correct me if I'm wrong, are you the only member of the Transkeian security branch who has applied for amnesty based on the torturing of detainees in Transkei?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: To my knowledge I'm the only person.

MR DUKADA: And as far as the incident pertaining to the torturing of Mrs Matoti, do you take full responsibility of whatever injuries were sustained by Ms Matoti in your presence?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct, Sir.

MR DUKADA: And you say at the time the torturing and assault took place in the security branch you were a constable?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: Can you tell the Committee which year were you promoted to a higher rank?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I sat for the promotion examinations in 1985 and then I was promoted towards the end of 1987 as a sergeant.

MR DUKADA: Those are my only questions to the witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DUKADA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Dukada.  Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions you would like to ask?

MR SIBANYONI: No Mr Chairperson, I don't have any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR SIBANYONI

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?

MR LAX: Just one small thing, Chair.  The rest has already been covered.
	With regard to - I was just puzzled by you saying that you readily took people to the doctor if they were injured or appeared to be in a bad way?   You can't hear?  You can't hear the translation?

CHAIRPERSON: There's a problem.

INTERPRETER: It's okay.

CHAIRPERSON: It's okay?  Thank you.  If you could perhaps repeat your question, thanks.

MR LAX: I'll repeat the question.
	I'm just prefacing it first before I put the question, just contextualising it in this sense that you mentioned that you readily took people to the doctor if they were injured?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes that is correct.

MR LAX: Well surely the doctors asked you how they came by these injuries?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: The doctor would be terrified to ask.

MR LAX: Would the doctor treat the person in your presence?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Doctors would just treat that person without asking questions and he would treat that person in your presence as a police officer.

MR LAX: And the detainees didn't ever say that this has been done to me by the police?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Even the detainee would keep quiet, would be silent about it.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Dukada, are you calling any further evidence?

MR DUKADA: No Mr Chairperson.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mgidlana?

MR MGIDLANA: Thank you Chairperson, I will not be calling any evidence under oath but however those that I represent have indicated that they would like to be afforded an opportunity to address yourselves but in particular to convey what message they have for the applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Now would they do that through a spokesperson?

MR MGIDLANA: Through a spokesperson, yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, let me before - we'll get back to you.
	Mr Stofile, are you going to be calling any evidence?

MR STOFILE: No Mr Chairperson but my client will review whether she needs to supplement whatever is stated by the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Madikizela, do you intend to call any evidence?

MR MADIKIZELA: No Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Madikizela.  Yes, I think we'll have to - we've got a bit of a logistics problem here, whoever is going to make this statement will have to have a place to sit.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, good afternoon.  Could I have your full names please?

MR MTIMKULU READS STATEMENT: My name is Mvula M-V-U-L-A, my surname is Mtimkulu M-T-I-M-K-U-L-U.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mtimkulu.  We've been told by your legal representative that you intend to make a statement and that you will be speaking on behalf of the victims in this matter?  Is that correct?

MR MTIMKULU READS STATEMENT: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And have you elected to make an unsworn statement?  In other words, not giving evidence as such but just really making an unsworn statement?

MR MTIMKULU READS STATEMENT: I'm not giving evidence, I'm just making a statement, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.