Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, what we can do is, we are able to take a statement from your son and also get copies of all the documents that you have, so we can find out more about the matter.
 Just one more question.  Your son Paulus, was he not 
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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injured in any way?

LENA BUTHELEZI: No, he wasn't injured.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did he see what had happened?

LENA BUTHELEZI: No, he never, he didn't see anything.  He was leaving that time.  When he arrived at home he found out that his father is dead.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did he tell you, was there a meeting in the stadium, what was happening on that particular day?

LENA BUTHELEZI: He never told me about a meeting.  He told me that there was a festival, people were dancing.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.

CHAIRPERSON: Wynand Malan?

MR MALAN: Mrs Buthelezi, how old is Paulus now, your son?

LENA BUTHELEZI: He was born in 1967.

MR MALAN: Were any people shot at the festival that you know of?

LENA BUTHELEZI: There were some, yes.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, I just want to clear up one thing with you. You say that your husband was brought by the soldiers from the stadium. But later on in your evidence you said that there were policemen appearing in court.  So were it policemen who shot your husband?

LENA BUTHELEZI: It is like that.  They were responsible.

YASMINE SOOKA: Not the soldiers?

LENA BUTHELEZI: No.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

MR MALAN: I am coming back on the same tack.  Were the soldiers, did they say they were also at the stadium, at the festival, or where did you meet with them?  Did you see them NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
7 MS L BUTHELEZI
at the hospital?

LENA BUTHELEZI: No, I didn't see the soldiers. The sister told me that the soldiers brought the corpse to the hospital.  The soldiers just found the corpse and brought the corpse to the hospital, because they were there to safeguard everybody was there.

MR MALAN: Thank you. Just to get the record straight. The sister told you that the soldiers told her that the police shot your husband?  Is that how you learnt of it?

LENA BUTHELEZI: Yes.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: It is also possible that even now you have not yet questioned your son Paulus and that to find out what was exactly the motive of attending the festival.

LENA BUTHELEZI: I could not ask the motive was of attending the festival, because everybody went there just to dance and to enjoy. I knew that they are also attending there to enjoy themselves.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much, Mrs Buthelezi.  You have given different places where we have to go and search for information, like the hospital, where we feel maybe we can get records and statements.  Another thing that I need to tell you, is that we hope that those who were responsible in the ADF administration, when they arrived to take the statements, when they sent them to the Commission, it is going to help many people like your family.  So that you can have peace, the peace in your heart and in the family.  Lastly, we would like to ask you the last question.  There are many people who are involved or lost their beloved ones, like their husbands. If you think very hard, in your opinion, what can the Commission do, what we can do in fact, NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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to make you have peace at least, the Commission?

LENA BUTHELEZI: Chiefly, what worries me is that the law must take its course. I am very worried about the children, their future is going to be doomed, because they are no longer attending school.  We had an aim of education. Now it is very difficult for me. It is indeed that everybody alive is going to die. I will forgive if this was eventual death. If possible, if I could know the reason of his death. Now I have got problems rearing the children, they are at home. I don't know what the cause of his death was.  I don't know really.  If maybe that person is a police, does he have the right to do anything where he can not be found guilty, if that is wrong?

CHAIRPERSON: We are very sympathetic with you. We have taken note of all that you have told us. I can only just go back and ask you a question, that the children are no longer attending school because of this issue or what happened?  Can you give me the names?

LENA BUTHELEZI: Yes, they are in Std 10.  The government is still helping us.  When furthering their education it is very difficult, although I am keen in furthering their education. If the father was alive, we could manage as a family to further their education.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We are going to make sure that we always contact you so that we can continue this matter together.  Thank you.
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA