Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-03-30

MR MTSHAULANA: I specifically want to refer to Exhibit I Mr Chairman.  It is not the same as I, I specifically want to refer to a statement by Mr Titi, Exhibit I of the last hearing, and I would like to hand it in as Exhibit D of this hearing.
	Do you have that statement, on the face of it is typed and as it begins  (indistinct)?

PETER JONES: I have it in front of me.

MR MTSHAULANA: On page 2.

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry, have you got copies for us please?

MR MTSHAULANA: Mr Chairman, I thought that you had copies.  I didn't make.

ADV DE JAGER: Unfortunately it seems as though ...

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe we are talking passed each other.  We have a statement here, which has been handed in as Exhibit C.  There is a what appears to be the letter I right on top of that page. It is I think intended to be page 1.  Is that what we are talking about?

MR MTSHAULANA: No, it is not Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it a different statement?

MR MTSHAULANA: This one, I think Mr Booyens said when he was handing it in as something about the Judge's rules, warn him according to the Judge's rules, that is how he handed it in as Exhibit I in the last inquest.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I am afraid we haven't got such a statement.

MR MTSHAULANA: I am sorry Mr Chairman, I had assumed that you had all the Exhibits.  May I suggest Mr Chairman, that we take a tea break and then I can have the statement because it is not long.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, maybe we can continue and we can receive that Exhibit later.

MR MTSHAULANA: Can I make the witness to read Mr Chairman?  Sorry Mr Chairman.  I would like you to read for me on page 2, paragraph 3, 4 and 5 of that statement, very short paragraphs.
	Mr Chairman, this is a statement by Mr Titi.

PETER JONES: On the 26th of July 1977, I hitchhiked to King William's Town and proceeded directly to Biko's residential address where he has an office in his bedroom.  The two of us were alone in his office, bedroom with the door closed.
	Biko reminded me that the 18th of August 1976 was the date that riots took place in Port Elizabeth and proposed that the two of us should draw up a pamphlet for distribution in Port Elizabeth to commemorate the date.  I agreed with his proposal.
	Biko took a sheet of paper and said that we should express a few ideas in writing, but we agreed on my proposal that the actual drawing up of the text should be left to him.

ADV BOOYENS: I think that reads the final drawing, not the actual drawing up.

PETER JONES: The final, okay, thank you, final drawing.

MR MTSHAULANA: I would like you to turn to page 10 and read paragraph 20 and 21.

PETER JONES: I never saw Biko again after the 2nd of August.  I phoned him on the 10th of August in connection with Madaka's case and he said something to the effect of he is letting me know when the job is ready.  This had no bearing whatsoever on our telephonic discussions and I accepted that he was referring to the pamphlets.

MR MTSHAULANA: Yes, next paragraph 21.

PETER JONES: I was detained on the 12th of August, without Biko having contacted me again.

MR MTSHAULANA: Yes.  I will leave Mr Titi's statement, but before I leave it, I just want to ask you if you can recall that the applicants said that Mr Biko was confronted with the statements - your statement and Mr Titi's statement, can you recall that?

PETER JONES: Yes.

MR MTSHAULANA: When was this statement made, the one we have just read now, that was submitted by the applicant?

PETER JONES: This statement is dated the 6th of September at three o'clock in the afternoon.

MR MTSHAULANA: So if the version of the applicant is to be accepted, Mr Biko was confronted at ten o'clock by a statement made at three o'clock?

ADV BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, the evidence was never that Mr Biko was confronted with this.  This is a matter for argument.  If my learned friend would be so kind to look at the date on Exhibit C, he may see a different one, that is also a statement made by Mr Titi, 26th of August.

MR MTSHAULANA: Mr Chairman, my learned friend is correct, this is a matter for argument.  On the record Mr Siebert's evidence, I will refer to it on my argument.  I don't want to take that matter further.
	Mr Jones, I would like you to take your own statement and I want you to turn to page, Exhibit A Mr Chairman, and I would like you to turn to page 7, the last paragraph and I would like you to read that paragraph for the Committee.

PETER JONES: The one that is numbered 4?

MR MTSHAULANA: Yes, the last one.

PETER JONES: PE Commemoration pamphlet?

MR MTSHAULANA: Yes, but the last paragraph.

PETER JONES: Okay, the following night, after closing my office at 5 pm, I went home and after supper went to Steve's house.  On my arrival there, I found Steve Biko and Patric Titi in his, Steve's bedroom apparently intensely involved in conversation.
	At this point Titi holding an open file, was speaking to Steve who was listening intentively.  As I entered the bedroom I heard Titi speaking about "busy with commemoration events".  The meaning of which I did not fully appreciate until I actually saw the pamphlets.
	As I stepped into the room, Titi ...

MR MTSHAULANA: Okay, just stop there.  I would like you to read at the end of the page 8, from the seventh line from the bottom.

PETER JONES: I arrived at the office just after 6 pm, and went in in order to leave all my accounting books in the cabinet in my office.  I then took a walk through the whole office, especially to check the door locks and when I came to our small kitchenette where our duplicator is kept and used, I found it in such a mess with paper laying all over the show, which meant that the machine must have been used either on Friday or during the weekend.
	On the shelf behind me, I found two huge stacks of pamphlets, each plus minus two feet high.  On taking a quick glimpse at the one, I realised that this must be tying up in some way with what Titi was speaking about.  It called on people to commemorate the deaths of all the martyrs and people killed in the uprisings last year and calling them finally to a meeting on the 18th of August in one of PE's black townships.

MR MTSHAULANA: Yes, I would like you to stop there.  This is supposedly the paragraph which you are supposed to have implicated Mr Biko as having been the author of the pamphlet which was handed in, attached to Mr Niewoudt's application.

PETER JONES: That is correct.

MR MTSHAULANA: Now, having read your synopsis of what the pamphlet which you are supposed to have known at the time, I would like you to read for the Commission because I am going to ask you the difference between your synopsis and the pamphlet, the last paragraph of the pamphlet of Mr Niewoudt.  Just from there ...

PETER JONES: Is that the paragraph that starts wherever you are...

MR MTSHAULANA: Mr Chairman, the witness is now reading the pamphlet which was attached, I think it is page 135 of Mr Niewoudt's application.

PETER JONES: Wherever you are, organise yourselves into groups and deal with those who do not heed this appeal, beat them, burn their books, burn their cars and shops, show no mercy to informers and other collaborators.  They  must all be killed, there must be cries, burning houses, people with clenched fists, bodies laying on streets, bruised and bleeding people, then there will be freedom, yes freedom.  The black people are going to get their freedom, there is not enough power on earth to stop them, long live the revolution, power to the people.

MR MTSHAULANA: Thank you Mr Jones.  Is there any similarities between your synopsis and this part of the pamphlet?

PETER JONES: No, not at all.