Amnesty Hearings — Potchefstroom — UNKNOWN

DLANJWA GCINISIZWE: I will clarify. It was a joint sitting
of the African Congress leadership, South African Youth Congress, which is SAYCO, the Stilfontein branch, African National Congress the Women's League, and the marshals that used to stay in Mary Agnes' house, all the occupants of Mary Agnes' house, they were all present. Yes I'll carry on. 
In that meeting we were discussing the issue of Nzimeni and the attack that he had already launched, that it was very clear that Nzimeni not prepared to reconcile with us and make peace with us.  He was not prepared to reconcile with us at all. There were two viewpoints in that extraordinary meeting. The first one was that Nzimeni must be attacked and the rest of the group must be put on the run.  And the next view point was that Nzimeni must be taken to the police. This view was advanced by myself an Patrick Mkontwana as members of the working committee which was established in accordance to the Groote Schuur minute to diffuse all possibilities of violence that might occur in the township, particularly due to the confrontation between the police and the ANC members. Then what happened afterwards, we agreed that we should take them to the police, we'll apprehend them and take them to the police because I did raise this issue in one of our meetings as a working group and Mr de Beer who was a policeman and was a member of the working group, apparently, said that they ran away from the location and therefore it's not easy to locate them. And we said that we'll take it upon ourselves to locate them and take them to the police.  The following day we were going to look for the taxi that was driving them around the previous day and we 
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woke up the following morning with other comrades and marshals, we went to the taxi rank to try and locate this taxi.  When we got to the taxi rank we found the taxi and the driver.  When we asked him as to where were the people that that you were transporting yesterday, at night, he said that he does not work at night, there is someone else who does the night duty, he only does the day duty.  We explained to him clearly our position to the taxi drivers who were there on the 31st of October 1990, we were explaining them clearly about our standpoint as the ANC Stilfontein Branch in the location, that we please plead with them to help us find Njima Nzimeni, should he hijack one of their taxis they must please go straight to the police station.  And whilst we were trying to explain this to these taxi drivers, Charles Mhlambiso was supported by the comrades that were accompanying me, he was near Nzimeni. Please bear in mind that Nzimeni's house is not so far from the taxi rank.  On arrival of the comrades at Nzimeni's house, as we were busy addressing the taxi drivers, the comrades they started beating up Charles Mhlambiso with pangas and knives because we were armed all the time. Then we rushed to the scene. When we got to the scene I started pulling Charles Mhlambiso from a ...(indistinct) and I explained to the comrades that our attitude and our standpoint in the meeting, I instructed two marshals to take Charles to the police on the 31st of October in the morning. Then we went into Nzimeni's house.  When we got inside I spoke to his mother and wanted to know where Nzimeni is.  She told me that he ran away. I enquired at the people in the street as to whether they did see him.  No, nobody knew.  Now I started to become scared because the 
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comrades were very angry.  They were angry because we managed to stop them killing Charles because they'd already poured petrol on him and they were about to set him alight looking for matches when I stopped them.  The comrades were very angry. And that is not a surprise because in our meeting there were mixed feelings as to whether we must kill them or what exactly must we do with them. I went to Mrs Botman who is the front opposite with Mrs Mazwi which is Nzimeni's mother. When I got to Mrs Botman who is a member of the ANC Youth League and she used to help us with food, I did explain to her my concern and my fear that the comrades can do something that I am not sure as to what it is.  As I was still discussing this with Mrs Botman we heard noise and then when we rushed out we found comrades, they were beating up Nzimeni. They hit him with pangas and knives, with everything they came across. I just stood there, I never went there to try and interfere. As the leader of the comrades, as the leader of SAYCO, as a member of the executive of the ANC and as a member of the working group as well, I never tried to stop the comrades to do this and in that respect I'm guilty. I'm not immune from any sense of guilty. I feel more guilty than the active participants in the actual deed because if I did use my powers as a leader, this would not have happened.  If I did go try and stop them and reminded them about our standpoint in the meeting, this would have never happened. In that respect I'm very sorry.  I'm sorry to God my creator, I'm sorry to Mrs Mazwi, the mother, I'm sorry to Mrs Mazwi, the wife, I'm sorry to the rest of the bereaved family.  I failed Nzimeni, I accept and I admit in front of this Committee, that I did fail Nzimeni. And after that Nzimeni 
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lay down next to the taxi rank because they were driving him all the way along.  On arrival I advised the comrades to go back to Mrs Agnes' house. When we got to Mary Agnes' house I advised the comrades further who were present at that 
moment, who participated in the murder of Nzimeni, that they should leave.  They should run away because the police will be coming after us and we knew that they will be coming at Mary Agnes' house to arrest us. And once again I'm sorry to Mrs Mazwi that the people who victimised her child, I personally advised them to run away, but I'm not sorry to the criminal system about the thing that I did. I'll stop there.

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Gcinisizwe, we understand that at the time you were in the leadership of the South African Youth Congress, you mentioned you participated in the working group that was set in terms of the Groote Schuur Minute and you were also in the executive of the ANC.  You at the time of the assault, I'm taking you to the time of the assault of Charles Mhlambiso, you said people, the comrades that you were with, started hitting him with pangas and they almost killed him by pouring petrol on him.  Can you mention, who were those people, their names?  Who was hitting with panga, who was hitting with stone, who was the one who wanted to pour petrol and wanted to set him alight?

DLANJWA GCINISIZWE: The comrades that I saw who participated at that time, you must understand that the whole scene was emotional, there was just a commotion because it was next to a taxi rank and it was the morning, people being on their way to work, the comrade that I saw was comrade Baby-Face, the first one and comrade Baring Letia too, comrade Shepherd Charlie and a few other comrades that I don't know their
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names. I have just forgotten their names. About two or three of them that were there at that time, who were hitting him at the time.

<UNKNOWN>: And now Nzimeni, who hit Nzimeni with pangas?

DLANJWA GCINISIZWE: The comrades participated in hitting Nzimeni, the comrades that I saw on my way out of Mrs Botman's house, some of them I just know their first names.  The first one, Frans Masike is the first one, comrade Albie Fasie(?), comrade Charlie, Shepherd Charlie, comrade Gomilivi, comrade Madala was there as well. I just know him as Madala, and just a few other comrades that I just cannot recall their names clearly. But I think in my motivation that I wrote, I did mention them, in my motivation. On the last page of my motivation, I did mention them.

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Gcinisizwe, and who was this Nzimeni, how did you know Nzimeni?