Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  When your son fled the country, what was happening there around in Tabong in Welkom?  What activity, what events were happening?

WITNESS:   The youth was fighting and the police were looking all over for them.  He decided to skip the country because they used to come home to look for him.  He would just come in and talk to us while on his feet and immediately leave.  Each time he was in the house and a car passes by he would jump the fence and go away.  The police came to my house in the morning, in the noonday and in the evening and Hugo came to my house almost every day wearing a short pants with a gun in his arm and they would always search the house, tore every paper they come across and they would turn up the beds.  And I kept on tell them every time they came into my house that he doesn't spend his nights here any more.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was that Hugo?

WITNESS:   He was a policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he stationed in Tabong Police Station?

WITNESS:   He was at the police station in town.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you remember if he's still there?

WITNESS:   I really do not know.

CHAIRPERSON: It is true that before your son let he was always detained and he once spent two week in detention?

WITNESS:  Yes, he was always in the cells and he spent two weeks in detention.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it true that when he was there in detention in  Tabong Police Station he was tortured and then his right arm was damaged?

WITNESS:   It's true, because he came home the other day and his arm was injured and he was telling us that his ears are really damaged.  The police assaulted him in such a way that he nearly died.  One of the policemen said, "Please, don't hit him like this", but, through the grace of God, he didn't die.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he give you the names of the police who tortured him?

WITNESS:   He didn't give me the names of those policemen who assaulted him.

CHAIRPERSON: And did he give you the name of the police who was so merciful to beg mercy for him?

WITNESS:   He didn't tell me anything really because I was so confused.  He just said to me, "Mother, they nearly killed me and my arm is not good any more and I don't know what's going to happen with my ears because they assaulted me."  He didn't tell us the names really.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he see the doctor?

WITNESS:   He never went to see a doctor.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?  Was there any reason?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a reason not to go and see the doctor.  We didn't have money because his father was already out of the house and there wasn't any other way to get money to send him to the doctor.  There was no peace at all.  There was no peace between myself and his father.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama, it's very sad.  When your son left and he went to exile, did he tell you where he was going to?

WITNESS:   Yes, he told me that he was leaving but he never mentioned the place.  He came to me - I remember it was at about 7 o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: What year was that?

WITNESS:   It was in 1986.  I was  in their bedroom.  That is on the day he left.  It was about 7 o'clock in the evening.  I was lying on their bed and he took his school bag and he put is on his back and he stood next to me - but is has been a long time - telling me that, "Mum, I am going to leave this house because there is no peace in this house.  The father is not just at peace with anybody."  He came to stand next to me and we said, "Mum, I'm leaving today."  He said, "Mum, I am going today."  And he sang me and he said, "We will go to other worlds and leave our parents behind."  And he left me and it didn't come to my mind that he was skipping the country.  He left and the next day I couldn't see him and I was asking myself which direction has my son taken.  There is another gentleman in our street who was working at Robert's.  This man went to Lesotho and he met my son in Maseru and he gave this gentleman a letter and this gentleman was kind enough to bring us this letter and it was written in his letter, "Mum, I'm skipping the country today."  That as the content of the letter and I believed that he left the country.  He wanted me to give his clothes to other people who were going to Lesotho.  A few friends came to fetch his clothes.  I gave them his clothes and a little amount of money.  I do not know whether he got hold of the clothes as well as the money.

CHAIRPERSON: When your son said that he was leaving because there was no peace in the house, was your husband still there?

WITNESS:   Yes, the father was still in the house but there was no peace.  He was assaulting us in the house, including my son.  And when he left he had a scar on his forehead.  The father was assaulting us with iron  /bars.

CHAIRPERSON: bars.  We wouldn't sleep in the house.  He was assaulting us every day from Monday to the last day of the week, Sunday, he would assault us.  I was the only one harassed by the policemen.  He wasn't prepared at all times to accompany me.  I was taken by the policemen with no shoes at all and every time he wouldn't be of assistance.  The police would tell me, "Listen, if your boy comes home, give us a call.  We have to pick him up."  But I didn't give them a call.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your husband a member of the ANC?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't a member of the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your husband a friend of the police?

WITNESS:   He wasn't either a friend to the policemen.  He was just an ordinary person.  He was a drunkard really and every day he was fighting us.  He was a real drunkard.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say that a friend who works at Robert's went to Maseru and brought a letter, do you mean Abel?

WITNESS:   I'm referring to the gentleman who brought us a letter from Maseru when I say the neighbour.

CHAIRPERSON: Was his name Abel?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's Abel but he's since died.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it a natural death?

WITNESS:   No, he was murdered.  His friend took him out to Virginia open veld and they killed him there.  His wife was looking all over for him.  She couldn't get hold of him and she went to different police stations.  Ultimately she found him at the Virginia Police Station where she was told he was nearly buried by the bandits because he was unknown.

CHAIRPERSON: You say that his friends took him.  Who were those friends who took Abel?

WITNESS:   He was working with his friend and his friend took him with the van and it  seemed as if they were going somewhere and yet that's where he took him to the veld and killed him.  And the wife was puzzled as to the whereabouts of the husband.  And she found him at the Virginia Police Station after a long time of search.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the name of the friend?

WITNESS:   I do not know the name of the friend, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, anyway, let's come back to your story.  Maybe now we must involve Puleng.  I think that's where she comes in.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it true that you never heard about your son until you heard from Puleng who had received a phone call from Andeli Lobese?

WITNESS:   I was never informed not at all until the day Puleng arrived from my home town Port Elizabeth that she received a call telling her that my son has died.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, can we hear from Puleng.

PULENG DIPPA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Puleng, is it true that during this time you were in Port Elizabeth at Thembalihle School at New Brighton?

WITNESS:   I was at Brighton in Dora Street.  I was schooling in that area.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us how you received the message about the death of your brother?