Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

CHAIRPERSON: Zweliyazuza Gwentshe.  We welcome you.  If Reverend Xundu can swear you in please.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Sandi is going to lead you in evidence on behalf of the Commission.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Gwentshe, you are going to talk about Mzwandile Gwentshe.  Is that your brother?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: And Alcott Skwenene Gwentshe.  Are you going to talk about him as well?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: We have 14 more witnesses to listen to.  He was arrested in 1963.  Is that so?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: I am sorry, excuse me Mr Chairperson, before we could proceed, were you not the Commission, panel afford me an opportunity to speaking about the Gwentshes' like people like Alcott Gwentshe, Irene Gwentshe, Mzwandile Gwentshe, Mzimkulu Gwentshe.  The reason for me ...

ADV SANDI: The problem is that you talked about Mzwandile and Alcott Gwentshe.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Irene and Mzimkulu were alive at the time.  They suffered, they suffered Mr Chairman.

ADV SANDI: We do not have a statement. We have to only talk according to this statement.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No, I have got no objection to that Mr Chairman.  I was merely asking the slightest to be afforded an opportunity.  This is what I did when I was here on Sunday.  Can I not be afforded an opportunity, because these latest members is the late Irene Gwentshe and Mzimkulu Gwentshe are no longer alive.  The reason why I did not include them last year in the statement when I was making these submissions to the Truth Commission, Mzimkulu, Alcott Gwentshe, my late father and then, was going to represent us and the rest of the family members, but they are no longer alive.  Now that, in view of the prevailing circumstances.  There has been a concerted effort that was adopted at family level that you go there and represent all the Gwentshes'.  Then I was chosen to represent the entire Gwentshe family, because they were victims of the apartheid regime.

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, can we work together, co-operating, because we have a serious time problem.  There are 14 witnesses to be heard.  Mr Gwentshe, can we focus on Alcott then.  I will ask you questions leading you in evidence.  You say Mzwandile Gwentshe was arrested and tortured in Cape Town and East London in 1963.  Is that so?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: He was sentenced in 1970.  He was released, but not in good health.  Is that so?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: In 1979 he left for Tanzania?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No, 1978.  He died in February 1979 whilst ...

ADV SANDI: When you gave a statement ...

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: I think it is the statement taker that made a mistake.

ADV SANDI: He passed away in 1979?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: He died of malaria?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Why was he arrested?  What were the charges?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: It was furthering the aims of a banned organisation, the ANC.

ADV SANDI: The ANC.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: And his being involved in the early 60's in acts of sabotage.

ADV SANDI: Does he have any children?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No.

ADV SANDI: He had no wife at the time?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No.

ADV SANDI: Where was he buried?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania.

ADV SANDI: Alcott Skwenene Gwentshe, your father that is?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: An ANC member?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: An ANC leader.

ADV SANDI: He was an ANC leader from a long time ago?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: When did he pass away?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: On the 27th of October 1966.

ADV SANDI: Let us talk about his arrest.  Was he sentenced at any point for being a member of the ANC?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: And he was taken to Robben Island?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No, Alcott Gwentshe was arrested by the notorious South African Security Police in July 1954 for leading the defiance campaign in the Cape, in the whole Cape Province, more, in particular, East London and he has been ANC Cape President and member of National Executive from 1944 to 1954 and then from 1946 to 1954 he has been President of the ANC Youth League in the Cape.  That was non other than Alcott Skwenene Gwentshe, as the leader of the ANC in this area.  And then due to much harassment and the tremendous influence exerted by the South African Police on the Government of the day, Gwentshe was taken away from his people.  Gwentshe, the leader, was taken away from his family by apartheid Pretoria.  The reason for them to take Gwentshe away from his people, maybe the enemy, they thought they would silence him or they would cripple the ANC, because the South African notorious Government has been wanting to negotiate with a weeping, weakling and crippling ANC.

ADV SANDI: But they did not succeed to cripple the ANC and cripple Alcott Gwentshe or him surrendering.  Mr Gwentshe, the way Alcott Gwentshe - let us start this way.  He would be arrested.  Is that so?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: And coming back from detention what would he say happened?  Everything that you are going to say, please, let it be directed to this question.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: This could be revealed by published as well as unpublished events of history.  For instance, in the case of Alcott Gwentshe, you could, as a matter of fact, ask Walter Sizulu, you ask Nelson Mandela about this.  They were together during that time, because the ANC has been waging, the ANC has been waging a powerful campaign to end White minority rule in South Africa.

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, I do not think, as you speak, you are answering my question, the question that I requested you to answer.  I have been asked by this panel to ask you questions so that you are assisted in giving your evidence.  Let us talk about the torture of Alcott Gwentshe.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Alright.  After Gwentshe had been arrested together with Joe Lengese who was also a leader here at time, when they got to Pretoria, the Special Branch, because this, South Africa was ruled by the Special Branch.  They said that they must take off their clothes.  They took pictures, Gwentshe side by side.  After he had gotten out of jail in 1964, Joe Lengese was not that harassed.  They took pictures of his entire body.  Then they would pour cold water onto him.

ADV SANDI: Is there any other form of harassment?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: He was taken to Bushbuck Ridge in the Eastern Transvaal, because they were chased away from East London.  Gwentshe hated, the South African Government despised Gwentshe, because a White man from East London passed away, Aidan, Sister Aidan.

ADV SANDI: Was he accused of this nun that you are talking about?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No, apparently the nun had passed away because of Gwentshe's influence.

ADV SANDI: Was he arrested?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes, this is why he got arrested, but they did not stipulate these reasons.  He heard this on the Wednesday in the district of Mafikeng.  When Gwentshe was removed from Bushbuck Ridge he was taken to a territory that was like, I quote,
"a no-man's land".
unquote.  A place where only snakes could live and, in fact, Mr Chairman, they are on record.  In a book by this prolific South African writer, Ken Themba, whereby he states, in so many words, political offenders are banned to the bush and then in terms of the relevant section or sections of the Black Administration Act of 1927, it is stated here that these Blacks or Kaffirs or Africans like Alcott Gwentshe are to be taken and dumped to the bush because of their communist tendencies, because earlier on Gwentshe and others were charged under Suppression of Communism Act, 15 in all.  This was in Port Elizabeth.

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, in your envelope with you, are there any documents concerning this matter?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.