Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

GEORGE BIZOS: There is a conflict, I don't think that our learned friend should really lead the witness.  He knows how to put the question.

CHAIRPERSON: You're heard that he said they were told there was a meeting called by the King and they came to attend that meeting, isn't that what you're trying to get at?

MR PRETORIUS: That's indeed what I tried to get at and that was all that I ...(indistinct).
	Mr Maphanga I'm going to show you photographs.  Mr Chairman, out of the video that was shown in this court, certain photographs were made which were used during the inquest.  I have prepared photocopies, that is colour photocopies of the photographs as it was given to us of that whole page.  I beg leave to hand four copies of that photographs to the Honourable Chairman and Honourable members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PRETORIUS: My learned friends, I have indicated to them prior to this the exact photographs to which I refer and they are in possession of that whole bundle of photos that we will use.
	Now Mr Maphanga, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Let's give this photograph a designation.

MR PRETORIUS: I have not got the correct page of bundle "B", the last page before me, but I would suggest it be included there, Honourable Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I will tell you the last page of bundle "B" as I've numbered it is 290, this will be 291.  So this will go in as exhibit "B291".

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you, Honourable Chairman.
	Mr Maphanga, in front of you now there's a page a page with a number of photographs on it.  Do you recognise anybody on that particular page, if you can?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I can see myself.

MR PRETORIUS: Where are you Mr Maphanga, which photograph, can you just indicate please?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: At the top part as you're starting the page.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Honourable Chairman, I may ...(intervention)

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: It's the first photo.

MR PRETORIUS: If I may assist, the photograph that was indicated by the witness is the very first photograph in the left top corner of the particular page.
	Mr Maphanga, the second photo on that very same page, the one just to the right of the one that you've indicated now, do you recognise anybody on that particular photo?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No I don't recognise any.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, I don't know if the witness understood which photograph I referred to.

UNKNOWN: Mr Pretorius they seem to be numbered, I see the one that you've just referred to is 34.10, maybe you can indicate whether you are referring to video 34.20.

MR PRETORIUS: I am indeed referring to that, but unfortunately I cannot convey it to this witness due to the fact that he's not literate enough that I can indicate it to him in that way.  I wonder if I can ask my clerk whose with to assist me and to go and point out the particular photograph to him with the permission of the Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, let him do that.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, ...(intervention)

JUDGE NGCOBO: Just before he goes on, my arithmetics may be - my numbering of "B275" goes all the way to 291, so that the next one must be 292.

MR LAX: I agree with you.

CHAIRPERSON: It will be 292.

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, the photograph has not been pointed to you by Miss Minnaar.  On that particular photograph do you recognise someone?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, I do not intend to play the video all over again.  I may place it on record that if one looks at the video and if my learned friends or the ANC wants to insist that we look at the record at the particular video, we can do that, but this is a running video and the two photographs on the top page ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Mr Pretorius, may I probably ask something from the ...(indistinct).  This photo that you have been shown, who is it that is lying down there?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, it's myself.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

MR PRETORIUS: Thank you, madam, member of the Committee, I'm indebted for your assistance.
	The shield that's underneath your arm there, whose shield is that?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: It's mine.

MR PRETORIUS: Now, Mr Maphanga, you are today in a wheelchair.  Can you in any way wheel that chair yourself while sitting in that chair?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No, I'm not able to.

MR PRETORIUS: Your arms, can you use your arms as you could have done before?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No, I'm not able to.

MR PRETORIUS: How do you get in and out of that wheelchair, can you do it yourself?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No, I'm not able to, I have to be helped by other people.

MR PRETORIUS: Where do you live now, Mr Maphanga?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I still stay in Soweto.

MR PRETORIUS: Who helps you, where do you stay and in what circumstances do you stay?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'm staying with my brothers and they are maintaining me.

MR PRETORIUS: Can you do any work to earn a living?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Please repeat your question.

MR PRETORIUS: Can you do any work to earn money?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I have no job now because I'm confined to this wheelchair, there's nothing that I'm doing now.

MR PRETORIUS: Who supports your children?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: No one supports my children.

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, how do you feel about these people that shot you?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I only know that I was shot by ANC, but I don't know them.

MR PRETORIUS: How do you feel, do you want to forgive them for what they've done to you?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I'll never ever forgiver them, I have no peace in my heart for them, I don't even have a single thread of peace and I'm saying that to them that I have absolutely no peace with them.  It's no secret this was intended to be, it was not a mistake.  Why do they ask for forgiveness after they should have prevented it in the first place?

MR PRETORIUS: Mr Maphanga, at any stage prior to this shooting incident, were you at war with the ANC or involved in violent clashes with the ANC?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: I have no knowledge to that effect.  I just saw that we were being killed.

MR PRETORIUS: Are you a member of the IFP?

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Yes, I am an IFP member.

MR PRETORIUS: I've got no further questions to this witness, Honourable Chair.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: What I would like to ask, those who shot at us, what are they saying when they see me wheelchair bound?  I would like the Commission to ask them as to whether they feel any pain or feel any remorse to see me confined to this wheelchair, this is as a result of their work.  My children are suffering, they're not even attending school, but theirs, for sure they are going to school and they are being supported.  Mine are suffering and their children are not suffering, they're not in the same position as my children.

CHAIRPERSON: Your lawyers have asked them all the questions which your lawyers thought were relevant to your case, and they have answered to the questions that were put by your lawyers, but at an appropriate stage if one knows who to ask this question of, this question may be asked during cross-examination.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Mr Maphanga, your question with regard to the applicants as to what they're saying about your position and situation today, the fact that you can't work, you cannot even support your family, is that your question?  When they were rendering their evidence to this Committee with regard to their amnesty application some of them did say that they do or they regret for those actions and showed some remorse.

SILWAYIPHI ALFRED MAPHANGA: Can you go to a war and have a weapon and not get hurt?  They knew very well that they were going to injure us or hurt us, that they are not injured.  I have not question, thanks.