Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-13

MS SEROKE: Thank you very much, Dr Naik.  You have expressed you know, how you felt, when you were stigmatised by the police for being an agent, and how meant to you, when you had to go back to your community, and you also told us how you overcame that and how you worked your way and restored your confidence from your people. You have also told us about how you were overlooked for promotion as a result of you know, that inspector of the Department of Education who gave the report about your involvement. You have said how much you suffered mental and physical pain.
 Now what would you recommend to the Truth Commission, having gone through all that, in terms of a policy of reparation and rehabilitation?

DR K NAIK: Well, look, we are in a democratic South Africa and I am just hope and pray that something like this will never happen in democratic South Africa. Reparation, I can't say I am badly off, I have earnings. But what I need is of course reparation of my reputation. I mean, I have actually served the community. I have actually been responsible for many of the individuals who have actually become professional men. I am still serving my community.  But I mean, I am not sure. I think people like General Johan Coetzee and all the people that interrogated us, they must have the courage of their convictions to come and lay their cards down on the table for the TRC.  They must actually tell you the truth.  So that you know, people like me, they will vouch that I was not working for them. I mean, I can't vouch by myself. As I said to one individual who was told about this, you know, one of the friends at school said to
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me I must not talk to you. I said look, that's your choice,
but I said I can't go from house to house in Roodepoort and   knock on the door and tell people I am actually innocent.  The people that will say this of course, is Johan Coetzee and all the people that worked under him; they will actually vouch that I was not working for them.
 I mean, I don't own a huge mansion, I don't - I bought a car through the car scheme, but I don't own these things. I think that stigma that actually is attached to you, I think, that is the reparation that I want.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: Dr Naik, I want to explore with your permission, a prevention of a repetition of the same thing. You testified that you are hoping in the democratic South Africa it won't happen again, similar things.  You were detained, tortured by people looking for information which you did not have at the time.  Which you had no knowledge of, but they suspected you of having certain knowledge.  That's why they detained you, why they tortured you.
 You have mentioned Gen Johan Coetzee's name now quite a number of times within the spate of half-an-hour.  But one of the statements you made was that Johan Coetzee knows exactly what happened to Timor.  What is the basis on which you make such a statement?

DR K NAIK: He was actually in charge of the case.  I mean, he was the man that was at the top, I think.  I mean, that's the feeling that I have.  When I was actually released and I said to him, I said, look, you know, if people know that I am beaten I am not going to get a job. I had no idea that I was going to get back to teaching, because they had already said that, you know, I think you know, you are not
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desirable to be a teacher, you know, from our point of view.
 In terms of course of his ability, he was actually in conversation with me, he mentioned to me that he had actually a Master's degree and he was working towards a Ph.D.  So I thought actually he was quite an intelligent man who was up there.  Surely, I mean, if he was a man in charge of the case, the person who was actually, the person who was there, I think he was called Colonel Piet Greyling, he was the man who was the chief there, but the entire operation was run by General Johan Coetzee. I have nothing against him. I mean, he didn't ill-treat me. But then I think, being such an academic man, such an efficient man, I also read from the newspapers subsequently that he was in charge of Craig Williamson. So I cannot then not make a deduction that he is a man that knows many things.

MR MALAN: Let me just explain to you, and I am sorry for taking time on this issue, but if we take the previous witness, Mrs Armina Desai. She was taking in on suspicion that she had broad knowledge of Timor's activities, because of the relationship they had, the fact that he was visiting there, as she did give evidence. You heard her giving evidence.  The fact that he was using her car, stuff found in the boot, some of his, some of hers, et cetera. The suspicion is she knows exactly what went on.  For that she was tortured. She was imprisoned, she was charged.  She was kept in prison for five years, to the day, as she gave evidence. On these suspicions, I am trying to explore and I want you to let your mind roll, and maybe share some with us.  We have become convinced on a number of reasons, which are not necessarily evidential, and you made the same statement and the same relating to Johan Coetzee.  Can one
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do something in the society to prevent such things 
happening.  How do we check ourselves?  That is really the question.

DR K NAIK: I mean, let me say at the outset.  Ahmed Timor was somebody that wasn't afraid. When he was actually in the school situation, people in the community, people at school were aware that he was politically conscious, much more than other teachers.  We were all politically conscious. We were under-paid, we were all over-worked. There was a disparity in salaries. However, he was somebody that was not afraid to talk the truth. I mean, that is my impression of him.
 It could have been any science teacher, apart from me, if he was at Roodepoort School he would have been detained.  Because they had also put two and tow together, that that's the science teacher, that is the Roodepoort School, that is where Ahmed is teaching and surely from that they would then make a deduction, that he must have got chemicals from there.  Whilst not necessarily the truth.
 The same way the security branch is thinking - I mean, I am also at liberty to say that Johan Coetzee, he was in charge of the case. Surely being somebody who was actually the leader, he wouldn't be able to make a decision until he has all the information in terms of all his security branch that were working.  I mean, I hope I have actually answered that adequately.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Naik, can I just ask a few more questions.  In the court records, the surname Naik comes up several times. There is mention of Mr Tachonail Naik and Mr Denash Naik.

DR K NAIK: Right, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these relatives of yours?
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