Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-02

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean it never came to your mind?  You were close to the family, he was close to you, it seems that you knew the family and that's why Mrs Nyongwane has asked why didn't you come to her, you knew her, to raise the problems with her, instead of killing her son.

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I did not have time, because we were staying far away from her, and to get some information that would come from the meeting.  No-one came as I saw him for the very first, I saw her for the very first time in a meeting as the people were going back to their places.  I never used to see her, because this happened suddenly, and there was no time for me to go and report to the family, because the instruction was already, had been issued at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: For how long did you suspect that the deceased was indulging in IFP activities?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: If I'm not mistaken, we were still at Pen, as we were still at Penduka there were rumours that he was selling out.  We did not have evidence at that time, till such time that we left Penduka and we got more evidence from other people who used to see these things happening.

CHAIRPERSON: How long, two days, two weeks, two months?  For how long did you suspect that he was dealing with the IFP?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Will you please repeat the question sir.

CHAIRPERSON: For what period before he died, was there a suspicion, or talk, that Mr Dube was indulging in IFP activities?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I'll say this, I cannot say, but what used to happen in the section, there used to be a list that would be compiled and that list had people, people's names, people who would be killed.  It was a long list and Jabulane's name was there.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nkosi, I'm asking you a simple question.  How long, or for how long, did you suspect that Mr Dube was indulging in IFP activities?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Quite a long time.  I cannot mention in terms of months or days, but it was quite a long time.

CHAIRPERSON: More than one week?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Two to three years.

CHAIRPERSON: Years?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, years.

CHAIRPERSON: And you never found a single opportunity to approach his mother during that period, because you were so busy?  Is that what you are saying?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I did not have time to go to his family as this problem was in my hands.  I did not have time to go and talk to his family.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR SHANE: Mr Chairman, if I may, just arising from that, just ask one question.  Mr Nkosi, did you, when you gave the order, and when you were also given the order, that Jabu was to be killed, did you have any doubt, whether he was or not, what was in your mind, was there any doubt, as to his membership and support of the IFP?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes.  I was suspecting him as, I was suspecting him, that he was an IFP member.

MR SHANE: Yes.  Did you have any doubt about it?  In other words, were you sure that he was an IFP member?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shane maybe that horse is going to be reincarnated, I think.

ADV GCABASHE: He had already answered the question Mr Shane.  He said he suspected.  He himself, suspected Jabu.

MR SHANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is evidence from this applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHANE

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Nkosi the people who joined you, left Penduka and joined you at Vergenoeg, did I understand it correctly?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: What people are you talking about?

MR SIBANYONI: People who did not want to be suspected to be IFP members, were given a deadline to move away from Penduka.  Were they supposed to come to Vergenoeg?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes.  But that was not only Vergenoeg, there was a no-go, a place that was declared a no-go area from Buthelezi, and the people who ran, fled to Tambo Slovo section.  Therefore if you went, were beyond that no point you would be associated with Inkatha.  Then from Buthelezi, beyond that point of Buthelezi, the people there were regarded as ANC members.

MR SIBANYONI: So did Jabu also leave Penduka and join you at Vergenoeg, for these six months the mother was talking about?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I saw Jabu after a long time, after leaving Penduka, I saw him at Vergenoeg.  I hadn't seen him at Penduka for a very long time.  I did not know where he fled to, but I saw him at Vergenoeg and I did not stay with him there for a long time.

MR SIBANYONI: But you did see him at Vergenoeg?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Are you saying that you never knew that he was an ANC member?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: No.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct)
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