Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-03

MR VAN RENSBURG: That's his nature, if he's heard anything anywhere, he's always come to us and said, I've heard this or we must look at this and please go a bit deeper into this, and then the investigating team will take that further.  Now, I really can't say where he's heard it, it may have been at his house or any other place.

MR MAGADHLA: Now the tape that was a part of which was embargoed or censored, would this tape have been - or this discussion, would it have taken place just before the plane crash landed or when?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, well that's my impression that the information we have on the cockpit voice recorder was the last minutes before the impact in the ocean before landing at Mauritius.

MR MAGADHLA: Would this have been after the people noticed that there was danger, that they were sort of in distress?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Most definitely because the smoke-detectors came on and that was when everything started gaining momentum and when oxygen was released and ...(intervention)

MR MAGADHLA: The unacceptable language therefor, in what context would it have been used, would it have been used in the context where one would be saying, well, I told these people, look what's happening now, or something else?

MR VAN RENSBURG: No, there I can't comment, Mr Chairman.  I know what was said in the last minutes, but I mean, before that or if there was anything mysterious beforehand, I can't comment on.

MR MAGADHLA: Would it not have been proper therefor that even if this conversation would not be for public consumption, that those people who were involved in the Commission with the people who represented - the legal representatives of the victims were to listen to that thing for everybody to be satisfied about what was said there, in camera?

MR VAN RENSBURG: I don't think it's been kept away from them, we must accept that they are not investigating, or they were not investigating the accident, I mean, that was done by the Board of Enquiry, but whatever served before the Board of Enquiry was available to any interested party whether it's relatives of some of the victims or of the aircraft operators or whatever, it was available to them and it's up to this day, to the best of my knowledge available, the record is there.

MS PATTA: With due respect, just to come in there, the full cockpit voice recording was never put on the record, it was not available, the last two minutes were put on the record. Your own admission to us today was that the full cockpit voice recording was withheld because of the foul or the strong language that it contained, that it might upset the families.

MR VAN RENSBURG: But that does not ...(intervention)

MS PATTA: But now you're contradicting yourself, saying it was fully available.

MR VAN RENSBURG: No, not in the least, I'm not even trying to contradict myself, but that recording is still there.  I mean, I don't think, if they must be called upon today at the DCA to give you the full recording that it won't be available.

MS PATTA: It's there, but it's not available publicly.  The only thing that is a matter of public record is the last two minutes.

MR VAN RENSBURG: There was a reason why it wasn't publicly available, there was most definitely a reason.  That reason wasn't to suppress vital evidence, that I can assure you, not to the best of my knowledge.

MS PATTA: The reason was because, you said, it had strong language.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, that was a factor at the time, that strong language was used and they didn't want to publish that.

MS PATTA: Strong words like lousy food and stuff?

CHAIRPERSON: Can we, I think, I don't know, it seems to me we possibly have kind of asked at this point fairly extensively and I would, Ms Terreblanche, what would you want?

UNKNOWN: Little things that I would just like to check on.  Just to say that the last half an hour of the Helderberg's conversation was with the Mauritius tower, there's no overlap between the CVR and that last half hour, so that CVR conversation took at least, it burned through, at least half an hour before the plane landed, or before it made contact with Mauritius.  Therefor it could theoretically be in any part of that flight.  Do you concede that, because there is no overlap?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, no, but there was also a reason communication wise with the Pleasance Airport Traffic Controller, there was some problem there, so I'm not conceding that that thing could have taken place at any stage during the flight, if you have evidence to that effect which we haven't had, then I will be as surprised as anyone else, but not with the information available to me.

UNKNOWN: Just one thing, you said that Judge Margo continually asked you, did you hear of this and that, was there ever any discussion about the fact that the fire could have broken out earlier in the flight?

MR VAN RENSBURG: I think that must have been part of the Flight Engineer's situation which was debated and as you've seen, this letter which you've given me here, it was not only a matter between the Board and the Flight Engineers, it was a matter between the South African Airways and/or the parties that have received copies of the letter.  So it wasn't a secret issue, I mean, this letter was sent to Rene van Zyl, to Viv Lewis of SAA and Captain Mitchell, Flight Operations, South African Airways.

UNKNOWN: But for some or other reason the submission was disregarded.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, but not just lightly I can assure you, Mr Chairman, that wasn't done.  Judge Margo would never have just, look, I mean, he had a responsibility of an international Board of Enquiry, the country's image was at stake here and a lot of people lost their relatives, everything he had to consider.  He can't play around with superficial issues here, he must make sure that there's substance in what he said before he takes it up and makes findings on it.

MR MAGADHLA: Maybe, let's quickly run through the second tape, the tape that you are, what can you tell us about that one?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Chairman, I can just say according to the information available to us there was no connection between the accident and the omission of the station ZUR to communicate with the Helderberg at the pre-arranged time, nor is there any significance in the fact that the ZUR tape covering that time was mislaid or wiped out by later use.  There was sensational statements about the ZUR tapes and that it was wiped out and what have you.  But again, it was the Board's duty to decide whether there was any bearing between that and a possible cause of the accident, and that was wiped out very early in the proceedings because the reasons were given by the South African Airways officials what the purpose of the ZUR tapes were, and all the experts involved in the investigating teams did not regard this as serious, but the moment you have an open hearing and it goes out to the general public that ZUR tapes were wiped out at the time, and when they were looked for it wasn't available, then it sounds suspicious, and obviously that's what happened here.

MR MAGADHLA: Finally, any reason for wiping them off?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Not to my knowledge, Mr Chairman, not that I'm aware of.

MR MAGADHLA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patta?

MS PATTA: On to another subject, can I ask why you failed to call the Mauritian campers who were camping on flat island who gave statements to the investigators and testified to seeing a big ball of fire with a black tail of smoke plunge into the Indian Ocean at exactly the time the Helderberg crash occurred?