Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: That's correct.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR JANSEN

CHAIRPERSON: What is the next matter you wish to proceed with?

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, as far as the matters of this applicant is concerned, there is only matter No 4 left, which is the burning of the trucks at Rhodes and the theft of an Audi vehicle in Uitenhage.  In both these incidents nobody was injured, so they do not constitute human rights violations, with respect.
	Although in the further particulars that you requested from this applicant, you only requested such further particulars relating to the theft of the Audi vehicle in Port Elizabeth.  More particularly the reason therefor was that he referred to a certain part - I am sorry, Mr Chairman, I am wrong there.  It was in the burning of the vehicles that he refers to the affidavit of Mr Dirk Coetzee and does not give the details himself.  I don't know whether you wish me to lead evidence on these two issues or to carry on with the final matter in which this applicant seeks amnesty and that is the matter of Jabu Njowase and the wife (indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think we should carry on with item No 7 and that is the murder of Njowase and his wife.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, also as I understood, that's the matter where there would be a mere confirmation of the evidence, so that would then conclude this applicant's evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say it will be merely a confirmation,
21.1 - 3A	has/...
161
has evidence been led at all?

MR JANSEN: No, Mr Chairman, but in the sense that this follows the same pattern of surveillance in Swaziland with orders to eliminate if the opportunity arose and so forth.  It follows very much the same pattern as many of the other incidents.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, are there any other parties that might be interested in this item?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, not those that I am aware of.

CHAIRPERSON: This is Njowase and his wife.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And his wife.  There is nobody.

UNKNOWN: Do you know what happened to the diamonds in the long run, did you bring it back to Mr Coetzee, or did you leave it with the diamond dealer?

UNKNOWN: Actually I don't know what Almond and Joe did with the diamond.  I don't know what happened to the diamond at a later stage.

UNKNOWN: ... brought back and handed to Mr Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: No, I don't remember.

UNKNOWN: ... sold it.

UNKNOWN: No, I can't remember.

UNKNOWN: ... give you part of the profit?

UNKNOWN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Reading through this item on page 14 and 15, does he say on whose instructions he acted?

MR JANSEN: Yes, Mr Chairman, at the very last paragraph thereof, paragraph G, he says "Jan Coetzee, Captain Jan Coetzee".

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps will you ask him whether he is prepared to confirm this since he is under oath.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chikalanga, have a look at the document
21.1 - 3A	before/...
MR JANSEN	162	MR D CHIKALANGA
before you, if you just look at the front part of the document as well, is that your application which you signed for purposes of being submitted before the Amnesty Committee?  Just have a look at the cover of that document.

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Is it your signature that appears on that document?

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: And do you remember giving instructions as far as the content of that statement is concerned in respect of this incident of Jabu Njowase and his wife?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR JANSEN: And do you confirm that you were sent into Swaziland on reconnaissance with Almond Nofomela?

UNKNOWN: That's true.

MR JANSEN: And that you were instructed to kill Mr Njowase if the opportunity arose?

UNKNOWN: That's true.

MR JANSEN: ... reconnaissance work as a member of Vlakplaas.

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MR JANSEN: ... that this happened on instructions of Captain Jan Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR JANSEN: When did Captain Jan Coetzee become the Commander of Vlakplaas?

UNKNOWN: I think it was in 1982, if I am not mistaken.  Most of the time when Dirk Coetzee was still there he used to come there, they used to work together with (indistinct).  He used to come and work at Vlakplaas for one week or two weeks and then he left.
21.1 - 3A

MR JANSEN: /...
MR JANSEN	163	MR D CHIKALANGA

MR JANSEN: ... 31st December 1981, Dirk Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MR JANSEN: ... by Jan Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, that's all.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I am to seek permission from the Chair or guidance as to the questions I intend asking, whether I could put these questions to the witness or this can be responded to by the lawyer, because this pertains to the acts or omissions or offences as on page paginated 14 of the application.   This is going to involve legal knowledge.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on with the questions that you wish to put to this witness on matters of fact.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: On matters of fact I have no questions to the witness, Mr Chairman.  It is on the question of paragraph A1, the acts upon which amnesty is applied for, murder, conspiracy to murder and attempted murder and malicious damage to property.

CHAIRPERSON: When you look at page 15, he obviously heard about the murder having been committed, he was told about it by somebody else.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: It may very well be that if he is truthful there will be nothing against him on a charge of murder.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And attempted murder, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, or attempted murder.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Because the evidence is that the people were killed.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but whether he is involved in it.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I don't want to belabour the Committee.  I will leave it there.  Perhaps we will take it
21.1 - 3B	up/...
164	MR D CHIKALANGA
up in argument at the end, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Chikalanga,  you said that you went to Swaziland with Nofomela and Mamasela on the instructions of Jan Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were told to kill Njowase.  Did you know him?

UNKNOWN: The way they described him, all the people who were with me, there were albums which were having photos of these targets.  They told us this person stays in this particular place, just like that.  No, we didn't find him that time.

CHAIRPERSON: And how soon after you returned from Swaziland did you hear that he had died or that he had been killed in a bomb explosion?

UNKNOWN: After two days.  We slept for two days in Swaziland and on Wednesday, while we were supposed to come back, that's when we heard that the mission had been completed.

CHAIRPERSON: When you returned from Swaziland, were you accompanied by Nofomela and Mamasela?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we were together.

CHAIRPERSON: It was after you returned that you heard that the man had died or was it while you were still in Swaziland that you heard this?

UNKNOWN: We heard it while we have left Swaziland already.

CHAIRPERSON: And how long after you had returned did you hear about this?

UNKNOWN: We read it in the newspaper the day we outside Swaziland.
21.1 - 3B

CHAIRPERSON: /...
CHAIRMAN	165	MR D CHIKALANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Did nobody tell you about it, you read it in the newspaper?

UNKNOWN: I heard it while they were talking in Vlakplaas.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was responsible for it?

UNKNOWN: While we were going to Swaziland we went there with the instruction from Jan Coetzee and some other  people from Ermelo but I cannot remember their names.  Always in the morning they used to come and report and late in the night.  People who were in Swaziland was Almond and Joe who used to go and (indistinct) in a particular hotel in Swaziland.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know whether you understood my question.  You came back to Swaziland with Almond and Joe Mamasela.  It was after you returned that you heard that these people had been killed.

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's what I answered before.