Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

RUSSELL ALLY: And that suspicion, are you basing it on the fact that you did not find him in the mortuary the first time, but only 19 days later?  Is that what makes you suspicious?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Yes, 19 days later.

RUSSELL ALLY: How old was your brother because I do not think you said it in your statement?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: At that time he was 16 years.

RUSSELL ALLY: He was 16 years old at the time.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Right.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you were not actually a participant in that march yourself.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: I mean, you heard about it later?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Right.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now, this, the Mayor who gave the, who said you have got five minutes to disperse, before this incident were there any other confrontations between him and the community?  Was there a, was there bad blood?  Do you know that, other protests, demonstrations against the Mayor that you were aware of?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: Yes, as far as I am concerned during that time most of the Councillors were not popular with the community.  They were not popular.

RUSSELL ALLY: But had there been any other confrontations before, direct confrontations between Councillors ...

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: I do not remember.  I do not remember.

RUSSELL ALLY: You do not.  Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Tom Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  From where we come we have always wanted things to be done on reasonable ground, reasonable bases.  Where these are not too clear we often ask for
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clarification.  Why would the students get into a rent boycott or a rent march, a matter which is primarily that of the parents?

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: So I think that a student is part of the community and he must take part where the community is taking part.  So I think he was adult enough to go to the march because he was one the people who must assist the community for a march.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Sir.  We would want to say we will do all we can to try and answer at least the two questions, I mean, the one who gave the orders and as Wynand Malan has pointed out, we will hope to get to the bottom of incidents such as the one that you are describing and that we may be able to provide some of the answers that people are seeking.
 The second question that you asked is something that struck us in a number of places where people have been given the runaround.  You go to a police station, you go to a hospital, you got to a mortuary and things, you just do not seem to get to the bottom of things and we are very sorry, I mean, because that just adds to the pain that people were experiencing at the time because it would be far better to know as soon as you can the fate of your loved one.  It seems to have been an additional torture that was being inflicted on people that they did not know.  I mean often they were treated harshly.  If they were not two people they thought would provide them with information and so we will also try to find out why it was that it took 19 days that you went to the mortuary on the first occasion and 19 days later the corpse is in that same mortuary where originally you came away with empty hands, but we also just want to 
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express our sympathy as a Commission as I have tried to do with others of those who have been testifying.  Although it may seem easy, it is not easy.  We have sat now since January and have heard evidence from April and it is heavy for us as well as we hear of the anguish of people.  
 Even here we get another instance of how young people paid a very heavy price on behalf of the community to bring us to the point we have reached in our land.  I thank you very much and may God strengthen you and your family.

GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: The last thing I want to ask is that, perhaps, we have streets around Pretoria which I think, perhaps, it can be the name of the street can be named, this name like, streets like Lotz Street, Boomstraat, can be Melvern Makola.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.  Although you may be saying it lightly we have a Reparations and Rehabilitations Committee and that is a Committee that must make recommendations to the President about how you make reparation to some extent to people and sometimes it is to the community and it may, sometimes, be by the kind of thing that you are saying which, I mean, we are taking lightly, but I would like to tell you that we are taking seriously as some of the suggestions.
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