Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-14

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, with your indulgence, I thank you for that and if possible can we proceed with the matter that was standing down before lunch?  Thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, we call the matter of De Meillon.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, before we start, there's a household matter, there's a request from certain applicants' attorneys and even from certain applicants if you would allow people to remove their jackets in the circumstances, if there is no objection?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think I should consult with my colleague Advocate Gcabashe in that regard, she will have the final word.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: No I see she's got no objection.  In that case we are overruled and the majority of the panel has got no objection, gentlemen, if you want to make yourselves more comfortable.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: That concludes the evidence of the applicant and I will attend to obtain the application form for his membership and once I have done so, I will hand it in for your perusal.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Prinsloo.  Mr Kotze?

MR KOTZE: Thank you Chairperson, I think we might have some problems with the microphone.

CHAIRPERSON: Might I request then that you move it ever so slightly?  Are you comfortable where you are seated, Mr Kotze, you are seated right on the edge of the table, would you like a little bit more room?
	Very well, would you like to discuss the matter of Mr Holder?

MR KOTZE: As it pleases you Chairperson, I call Mr Holder.

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: (sworn states)

MR KOTZE: Thank you.  Mr Holder is it correct that you are a 37 year old electro-mechanic and that you are the applicant in this matter?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Is it correct that you are married and that you have two children who are currently respectively 15 and 13 years old?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Is it also correct that on the 5th November 1996 you were found guilty on charges of robbery with aggravating circumstances and murder and for each of these charges you were sentenced to 10 years imprisonment to be served concurrently?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: And this emanated from an incident which occurred on 23 April 1994?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Have you had any prior convictions except this particular one?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: No.

MR KOTZE: Mr Holder, if we could just begin with your background?  In which environment did you grow up?  Where did you undergo your education?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: In Krugersdorp, primary and high school.

MR KOTZE: And after you passed matric is it correct that during 1979 and 1980 you performed your military service?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that's correct in Ladysmith at 5 Infantry Battalion.

MR KOTZE: Did you follow any advanced courses there?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: An officers course.

MR KOTZE: Did you achieve a rank?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes, that of corporal.

MR KOTZE: And as part of your military service and your obligations thereof, you performed duties in Namibia?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: For how long were you on the border?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Approximately one year.

MR KOTZE: And during this border duty, were you involved in any contact?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct, two incidents of contact.

MR KOTZE: And were any of your friends injured during this military contact?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Did you lose any members of your family as a result of the border war?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct, my cousin Reino.

MR KOTZE: And was there anything specific about his passing?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: He was one of the last who died during border duty and that was during the operation when they withdrew the land from Namibia.

MR KOTZE: And during your military training and border duty were any discussions ever held with you in order to motivate your presence on the Namibian border?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Could you briefly expand regarding this motivation and these discussions?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Discussions about the border focused on communism and the fight against communism, they indoctrinated us extensively against communism and the ANC in it's entirety.

MR KOTZE: At that stage was the ANC also regarded by the army as an enemy?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: And this threat of communism, if you could just expand of that?  What would that threat involve in general for you?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: For me it would have meant that free religion would no longer have existed, that the free market economy would have collapsed and that everything that we believed in and everything that we had been taught would have been destroyed.

MR KOTZE: Until the point of your border duty, what were your political orientations, for which political party did you vote?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I think if one is young one votes for the party which your parents voted for, therefore I would have voted for the National Party.

MR KOTZE: And the policy of the National Party at that stage was one of separate development, how did you feel about that?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: At that stage I felt it was entirely correct and acceptable that we should develop separately with regard to schooling, churches and with regard to our countries in their entirety.

MR KOTZE: And were these impressions made to you at school level?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: After you completed your apprenticeship, you then in 1983 joined the Secunda Town Council as an electro-technician?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: And from 1984 you were in service at the Secunda Mine in the same capacity?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: And in the meantime you were married and you had these two children?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: Did your political affiliations change at any stage?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Since 1993 my political affiliations have changed.

MR KOTZE: And what was the reason for that?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: The environment in which I lived was overwhelmingly occupied by Conservative Party members and all of them were predominantly right-wing.

MR KOTZE: And with the withdrawal of the South African forces from Namibia what was your view then?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I felt that all the troops who had died on the border had died unnecessarily, that they had been shot unnecessarily because we had lost the land that we had protected with our lives.

MR KOTZE: And at that stage then did you begin to believe that the National Party did not keep it's promises?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: Yes that is correct.

MR KOTZE: And then at a stage you joined the AWB?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct.

MR KOTZE: When was that?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That was December 1993.

MR KOTZE: And for which reason did you join this organisation?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: I thought that with the assistance of the AWB or by means of the AWB we would have some form of political influence on the elections which were coming and the outcomes of these elections.

MR KOTZE: And what was your feeling when you heard that President Mandela was to be released?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: First I was shocked because I felt that he was one of the leading figures of the then enemy and this had been indoctrinated in our minds by the army, I felt that he was part of the enemy of the day.

MR KOTZE: In Secunda, which is overwhelmingly a white mining community?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct.

MR KOTZE: And you said that it was predominantly occupied by conservative membership and thoughts?

EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER: That is correct.