Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-05-13

ADV DE JAGER: Don't give the whole history, I asked you whether you have got a membership card, and whether you've still got one and you told me yes you had one but you've lost it, and that's all I want to know. Didn't they issue a new one to you since 1991?

N JACK MENERA: No I didn't go for a new one.

JUDGE WILSON: Where was this card issued from?  What branch?

N JACK MENERA: I was in Soweto, it was in Pimville(?).  It is in Pimville Soweto, Klipspruit.

UNKNOWN: I'm asking you for the name of an official who can verify this because I since called the ANC officials and they didn't know your name and I spoke to somebody in the Orange Free State Branch, that's why I'm asking you if you can refer us to somebody who can verify that for us.

N JACK MENERA: Let me put it this way, the person who might give you clarity or the Committee my background is Comrade Nomsa Madikizela Mandela.  The Commission will get my background. Winnie Mandela knows me and she will tell you about my political activity.

UNKNOWN: Maybe I should ask this question. What was your relationship with Winnie Mandela?

N JACK MENERA: Do you allow me to explain ...(indistinct) your question?

UNKNOWN: Reply to my question.

N JACK MENERA: I grew up in Winnie Mandela's home in Brandfort.  Myself and Winnie would leave her place at night with packets of soup and maize meal and go and dish out for the elderly people of Brandfort, for instance widows, people who were struggling.  Winnie Mandela was helping such people. Now Winnie and myself would leave her house on foot, get into the township and give these people these packets of soup and maize meal.  We've been doing this since the 1980's. That is my relationship with Winnie.  Moses Menera, whom I come after, also grew up in Winnie's house and Winnie took him to Transkei to attend school.  He came back with his matric.  My younger brother who comes after me, was raised by Winnie Mandela and he left and he died in Johannesburg and he was staying at Winnie' house. Now I grew up in front of Winnie.

UNKNOWN: Would it be correct to say you were living with Winnie, is that what you're saying?

N JACK MENERA: That's correct, but not permanently. I would sometimes go and spend the night there, and come back but there were days when I would spend nights at he home.

UNKNOWN: (speaker's mike is not on)

N JACK MENERA: No. Myself and the Mandela family are relatives. Winnie's husband, Madiba is Mulhomo, now the same with me, I'm Madiba.  Now the structural functions that Winnie held were also attended by my family.

UNKNOWN: You said something about Edward Phelane having a gang.  What I want to know from you is that how did this gang hinder the progress of the community or rather hinder the progress of the ANC in Brandfort?

N JACK MENERA: Sibikhoto's gang, I have early on explained that  Sibikhoto, there was a bucket action and we took all the buckets and poured them at his home and he started forming a gang to fight against the activities of the ANC in the township. As I'm talking to you now, member of the African National Congress Youth League were assaulted by Sibikhoto's gang.  Mention was made earlier on that we embarked on consumer boycotts not to buy in town and Sibikhoto was against these actions.  As we stopped cars, his and his father's would never be stopped and inside he would be loading people who bought something in town and knew very well we were against these actions at the ANC.

UNKNOWN: I don't know, you are talking about Sibikhoto's gang.  I'm talking about Edward Phelane's gang.  Is that the same gang?

N JACK MENERA: Maybe I do not understand you well, Edward Phelane has another name, it's Sibikhoto, now Sibikhoto is a founder member of the gang that was against us.  I have indicated that when the gang heard freedom songs, it would come and there would be a conflict between the two groups and the slogan would die and there would be a fight.

JUDGE WILSON: Do I understand from what you've just said, I may have misheard you, that he formed this gang after you started dumping buckets of sewage into his father's shop.

N JACK MENERA: The gang started acting, or rather he put members of the gang together and they started reacting against the ANC.

JUDGE WILSON: You were dumping buckets of sewage into his father's shop.

N JACK MENERA: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: You say a meeting was called where Mr Phelane made a remark that he was not prepared to talk to stupid people. To whom did he specifically make such a statement?

N JACK MENERA: He was telling two of our comrades that people were sent to fetch him. I think one of them if I remember very well, is Accused No 3, he is Patrick Maloyisani and among the people who came to Brandfort from Bloemfontein region, the people were requested to come and interfere, one of them is Sada Mutsabi who Mr Phelane referred to earlier on, he was one of the people who were present to come and interfere to talk to him because they were together in Grootvlei Maximum Prison in 1986.  The meeting was called by the ANC.

UNKNOWN: The five of you?

N JACK MENERA: No.

UNKNOWN: In your evidence you said the objective of wanting to kill the Phelane's was to run the community smoothly.  Can you mainly explain to the Committee members how was the community going to run smoothly without the Phelanes?
	Maybe to lead you, can you start by explaining to the Committee how the community wasn't running smoothly because of the presence of the Phelanes?

N JACK MENERA: I explained to your question earlier on that the that gang was hampering the activities of the ANC and we realised that these people are against the ANC.  I've just made an example, a very small example of the Consumer Boycott.  Lets say we have a consumer boycott and he approaches the people...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: I don't think you understand the question.  I'm not talking about the gang.  I'm talking about the Phelane family.  You said you wanted to eliminate them so that the community can run smoothly.  What I'm asking you, how was eliminating them going to make the community run smoothly?  I'm not talking about the gang, I'm talking about the Phelane family, namely Susan Phelane whom you killed and Mr Phelane, just the Phelane family, not the gangs.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: I think, let him complete his answer because the trend of his evidence is that associating the gang with the Phelanes.  So I think that will complete the account of what he was telling us.  Can I leave you to take it further from there?

UNKNOWN: Very well.

N JACK MENERA: The gang and Phelane are one and the same.  They were terrorising the ANC in the township.  Phelane knows politics.  When there was a call from the top structure of the ANC, that all councillors should resign because they were the structure of apartheid, I believed Mr Phelane knows such calls very well and he knew very well that even he said he wasn't going to resign at all, there was going to be an action following up which was what happened his wife.  He knew very well the consequences of not resigning, he expected anything to happen to himself or to his wife, because the two of them did not resign. We're now concentrating on their work as councillors.  They created a gang to protect themselves and to reduce the activities of the ANC in the community.
	In full I can say your questions about the Phelane family, why was it so necessary to eradicate this.  Phelane knew very well and he knew that he had to expect such an action.

UNKNOWN: I want to ask you a question now about the stabbing of Patrick Phelane in the shop. You say Patrick Molusani stabbed Patrick Phelane.  Is that correct?

N JACK MENERA: Yes that's true.

UNKNOWN: When he stabbed him did Patrick Phelane scream or cry?

N JACK MENERA: He screamed.  He was screaming, that's how I heard him whilst I was in the kitchen.