Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-19

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Chairperson Professor Russel Ally will facilitate the witness, thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Patrick thank you for coming, I know there were some problems  and we weren't sure whether you were going to come and we were glad that you - you did manage to make it, so welcome and who is the person next to you.

MR MZATHI: This is my aunt - my aunt.

RUSSELL ALLY: Your case is a very similar one to the two cases which we have just heard - the cases of  Claasen and  Mthamzeli also allegations of torture and severe ill treatment and the same names again come up.  
 But I'd like you to tell us in your own words what actually happened to you during 1986 when you were detained.

MR MZATHI: While I was detained in 1986, it was on Sunday the date was the 15th - when we arrived at the detectives office in Town, there were twenty of us.  These policemen who arrested us they had guns, the long guns, they pulled the trigger and we thought they were going to shoot us, we didn't know that the trigger was not on.
 After they put us, they beat me with their hand gun at the back of my head, they put me in the dog cell, I think there were nine of us.  When I gained consciousness we were in George, they told us that we are going to be there for 14 days and then after that we would be released.  
 After 14 days we asked when are we going home - they couldn't answer us and it was a difficult time as from them we didn't eat.  After three weeks the boers Maritz, Bosman and an old man known as Uncle or  [indistinct] they took us to the detectives, it was me and Lelele Mbangi, Lelele was taken to a separate office, they asked me whether do I know Nkosinathi Lengisi, I said no I don't know that person.  I knew that was my father, he was one of the activist, they told me that you know Nkosinathi Lengisi, he is your father.  If you deny this, that will cause you a trouble we will beat you, that was Maritz who said that.  Uncle was a translator.  
 I denied all these things and they beat me up, clapped me, they kicked me and I denied all the time they forced me - there was a drawer - they put my penis and my testicles into a drawer, it was the first time I  experienced a pain of my private parts.  I went unconscious, I woke - until I woke up in the cell.
 After a month there was a policeman, they take our clothes -  [indistinct] there naked, each day on the 30th of each month, we were taken - lived naked, when I asked them to go to the hospital, they told me that my hospital will be a cell, up and until I tell them that I know my father.  I told this guy who was a translator that you  know my father - you know my father who is - I am selling the fish, so they couldn't care about that, they just take off our clothes and leave us naked  up until the time they had to release us.
 They didn't want to release me, I just help - I promised them that I am going to commit suicide if they don't release me, because I was tired of being tortured.  They take us to Mossel Bay and they tell us many things and then after that we had to be released. 
 Now when I go back to school, I was not clear and I failed my Std 5 and after that I decided to leave school.  I couldn't go and lay a charge because there was nothing that was going to be further, I saw again this boer after the death of Chris Hani.  Ms Bosman again take me again to
this office, truly this time I was not involved and now they press my testicles against that drawer, that showed hatred against me.  
 I went and laid the charge - give them the statement that's why I am here today, and that was all.

RUSSELL ALLY: Patrick how old were you when these things happened to you?

MR MZATHI: I was 14 years old.

RUSSELL ALLY: To your mind why were they - why were they doing this, I know you say that they were  wanting information about your father, but other than that, was there any other information that they wanted from you?

MR MZATHI: There was Kubu that they were looking for him, because each and every time they were talking to me they were asking me about Kubu each and every time they come to the location they mention the same name.  As I told them that I don't know Kubu, it's the time I was driving them to torture me.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you tell us what was happening in the township at that time, politically was there a lot of political activity, were a lot of things happening?

MR MZATHI: Yes there were things that were politically affiliated - the community was fighting against the boers.  After 1985 up until 1986 they declared a State of Emergency that was when I was detained.

RUSSELL ALLY: And do you know of other cases of people, you said that 20 were detained at the same time that you were detained, do you know if they were also tortured, did they discuss any of what happened to them with you?

MR MZATHI: There were two of us who came out of there it was and Lelele Mbangi but soon we were taken to the detective, some of them of them were left behind.  They were just being taken of their clothes stayed there naked, whether it's cold or hot, we were staying - we stayed there naked.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] was he also tortured in the same ways did he also have his genitals pushed into a draw and the door closed on him?

MR MZATHI: No he didn't get this kind of a torture, they were just after me because of my father's activist, it was Maritz and Bosman.  I was going to be happy and I thought while I was coming here I will find them here.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] were you kept in detention?

MR MZATHI: I was there from the 15th up until the end of October.  I think it's 2 months and 14 days in detention.

RUSSELL ALLY: And after that period did the police leave you alone or did they still continue to harass you - after you were released?

MR MZATHI: After my release there was - the policemen had nothing up until the death of Chris Hani where they said I was involved in the burnt down of the post office.   It was the same detective who detained me for the state of - for the burnt down of the police station.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] you again that time, this - after they picked you up.

MR MZATHI: It was very difficult then to do that, because even there, Captains were there, so they couldn't make it - we resisted by all means not to go where they were asking us to go to, because I knew they were going to hit us.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] us what are you doing presently?

MR MZATHI: I am doing a part-time job here in Mossel Bay in a sub.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Yes Chairperson I would like to know if there are any long term effects on the - at special  [indistinct] torture?

MR MZATHI: While I am sitting here and at times when it's cold, I - I have got a kidney problem my legs sometimes feels lam or one of my testicles get swollen.  That's why I was saying I will be glad if these guys could come forward and testify.
 Because when I get the problem of the kidneys my whole body get painful, sometimes I feel dizzy, that's what I get from the torture.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Mzathi have you been to a doctor?

MR MZATHI: I have been to the doctor, but I couldn't see any help, that's why I couldn't go there because the pills couldn't help me, because the pains are always there.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Do you have any children?

MR MZATHI: I don't have any.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: In addition to making sure that your story is documented by the Truth Commission is there anything else that you would like the Truth Commission to do?

MR MZATHI: Something like what?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: I don't know to take - to check your health and you say you are working right now isn't it?

MR MZATHI: Yes I am working - all though that is just a part-time job, sometimes I don't work for more than two weeks, so I can't say that I am - I am employed. I can be very much happy if I can be examined thoroughly.