Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-25

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes, I did say that I couldn't remember at first, as to what she was wearing, but when I saw the dress, I remembered that she had worn that dress on that day.

MR VISSER: Did you ever see her wear that dress together with a jacket?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: If it was cold, she would wear the dress and a jacket or a jersey on top.

MR VISSER: Can you help us to describe that jacket?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, it is difficult for me to describe her jerseys.

MR VISSER: Let me ask you this, did you know, did you know her dresses?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes.

MR VISSER: And the jackets that she had?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: She had jerseys, not jackets.

MR VISSER: Are you saying that, as a positive fact, that she did not have a jacket, as far as you can remember?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Even if she had a jacket, but what she usually wears was jerseys, not jackets.

MR VISSER: I see.  Just tell us about this dress, you know which one I am talking about, the maroon dress.  That was a dress that you could buy in  a shop, would that be correct?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Would you say only one of such dresses of that material would have been manufactured, or would there have been more than one that would have been offered to the public for sale in clothing shops, or can't you say?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: It can be a mass production.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, do you know by chance, by any chance, Mrs Dludla, where Ms Kubheka actually bought that dress?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, I do not know, because she brought these dresses when she came back from eSikhawini.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Are you speculating, or are you sure about the fact that she brought them from eSikhiwini, this particular dress?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I would say so, because I only saw the dress when she came back from eSikhawini and she brought these dresses from eSikhawini.

MR VISSER: Alright.  If you are wondering why I was asking you this question, I will refer to Bundle 2, page 93 at the top of the page.  This is apparently a statement made by Kehla Mncobo who says he was Kubheka's husband, would that be correct?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes, yes, he was.

MR VISSER: And he says that he knew her dresses and he identified, he says at page 92 he immediately identified ...

MS THABETHE: Which paragraph?

CHAIRPERSON: The bottom of the page.

MR VISSER: Page 92, bottom of the page.

CHAIRPERSON: Page 92.

MR VISSER: It says "Captain Holmes showed me a maroon dress", and he says that he immediately recognised that dress as one of Ntombi's articles of clothing.  What I want to refer you to is on page 93, at the top of the page, I want to tell you what he says.  He says she always wore that dress with a navy blue jacket.

CHAIRPERSON: He says that she got it in Grey Street, Durban?

MR VISSER: Yes, yes.  If you will allow me Chairperson, I will come to that.  He says that she always wore that dress with a navy blue jacket.  What do you say to that?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I wouldn't dispute that, because I wasn't at eSikhawini when Ntombi was wearing the dress together with the jacket.

MR VISSER: But she was wearing it according to you, on the date of her disappearance, and I asked you "was she wearing a jacket" and you said "no"?  You told us also, Mrs Dludla ...

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, I don't remember seeing a jacket, she wasn't wearing a jacket on the day of her disappearance.

MR VISSER: I specifically asked you whether you saw that dress before the day of her disappearance, while she was wearing it, and you said "yes"?  I then asked you "did you ever see her wearing that dress with a jacket" and you said "no, only with jerseys"?
	Do you disagree with Mr Mncobo's evidence?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: What Mr Mncobo is saying here is what used to happen in eSikhawini, I wasn't there.  I am testifying about what I have seen at kwaMashu, not eSikhawini.  This is what I have seen at kwaMashu.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just for the record Mr Visser, is eSikhawini very close to Richards Bay and Empangeni, which is about 200, it is a different place from Durban, about 200 km plus-minus?

MR VISSER: Would the house of Kubheka's parents have been in eSikhawini, or don't you know?  Page 91, Chairperson, in the middle of the page?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I do not quite follow, would you please repeat your question.

MR VISSER: You see, I am asking you because I don't really know what he says here.  I want to know whether the house of the parents of Kubheka was in kwaMashu or in eSikhawini, could you help us perhaps?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: kwaMashu.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Mr Mncobo said at page 92 of his statement that the dress that he recognised, Kubheka had bought at Grey Street in Durban.  Do you know anything about that?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I did state that I did not know where she bought the dress, all I know is that she brought them from eSikhawini.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Now, how did it come about exactly that you identified that maroon dress, Exhibit 1, did you go somewhere or was the dress brought to you?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I was taken and shown the dress where the dress was kept.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Let's just go through that step by step.  Did somebody come to your house and say you must accompany him?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes.

MR VISSER: Was that a policeman who came to your house?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I am not sure whether he was a policeman, since he was not wearing a police uniform.

MR VISSER: Do you remember his name at all?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, I do not remember.

MR VISSER: Was he a white man, an Indian person or what?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: A white man.

MR VISSER: And did you travel in a motor vehicle with him?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, I was together with Ntombi's brother and I think I made a mistake there, it wasn't the day when we went to recognise the dress, or to identify the dress.

MR VISSER: What happened on the day when you were with Kubheka's brother, what happened then?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Ntombi's brother and Ntombi's son and myself and my daughter, we went to a certain area in Curry Road and there were dresses on the floor, and they were shown to us.

MR VISSER: Was that at the mortuary?  Was that in the doctor's offices or where was that?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: It was in Curry Road, I am not sure what place is that.

MR VISSER: What I hear is Curry, presumably like curry and rice?

CHAIRPERSON: Curry and rice, yes.

MR LAX: Curry Road is in Durban.

MR VISSER: Thank you.   How many dresses were you shown there?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: I didn't count them.   There were dresses on the floor, it wasn't one dress, there were many dresses, I didn't count them.

MR VISSER: When you went with the brother of Kubheka to this place where you saw the dresses, what were you told did you have to go and do there?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: He told me that Ntombi's body had been exhumed and there were dresses and I was supposed to go there and look at all the dresses and see if I can recognise the dress Ntombi had worn on that day when she disappeared.

MR VISSER: Fine.  Can you remember what the other dresses looked like, today, that you saw there?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: No, I wouldn't be able to do that.

MR VISSER: Did you see the dresses that were displayed here, Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6, I think it was, apart from the maroon dress, Exhibit 1?  Did you see that here?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes.

MR VISSER: Are you able to say whether those other two dresses, Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6, who they belonged to?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Ntombi's.

MR VISSER: Right.  Now, are you saying therefore that you knew her articles of clothing quite well, so that you were able to be, you were able to identify Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6 as her dresses, did you know her dresses quite well?

JABULILE ROSE DLUDLA: Yes.

MR VISSER: Give us an idea, how many dresses did she have in her wardrobe?