Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-02

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Blanko's death was very uncomfortable to me because before he died he came to me and he said: "Oscar, if a fight crops up in my absence please cooperate with the SDU".  Blanko was a very sweet person, he did not have any conflict with anyone.  He was arrested by the police at one stage in train we gave him the gun in the train and then he was arrested for the sake of the community.

MR MALAN: Chairperson, maybe the Lord was revealing himself, maybe he was telling me those were his last words because he told me those words at about 7 o'clock, he said: "Please, even tomorrow when I'm not there, work with the SDU's" and at about 2 o'clock he was killed.   In other words his words haunted me.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand you evidence, the very last words that Blanko uttered was that: "If in my absence the enemy should attack the people, please cooperate with the SDU".  That's what he said, the very last words that he ...[intervention]

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I was a member of the SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: We know that, we know that.  When you sit back and when you think back about those words, it appears to you that perhaps when he made that statement something was telling him that he was about to die because he died shortly thereafter.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And he knew that you were a member of the SDU.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Because he was my chairperson Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, okay.

MR MADASA: So Blanko's death was a huge loss, is that correct?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It was a loss to me and to the community.

MR MADASA: And to the SDU?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, Sir.  The SDU and the community.

MR MADASA: How was his death a huge loss to the community specifically?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: His death was a huge loss because he was a member of the SDU and the SDU was defending the community.  Now if members of the SDU were going to die in that fashion then it was going to be difficult for them.  He played a certain role, he protected the community.  He could not sleep at night which people were sleeping.

MR MADASA: Is there any other manner in which Blanko was helpful to the community besides being part of the SDU structure?   Outside that structure, was he helpful in any other manner to the community seeing that he had a shop, for example?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, he was helping the community, he had a Spaza shop.

MR MADASA: Is there any other manner besides just owning the shop, did he do certain things for the people in his personal capacity?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, if there were street committee meetings he would be there to assist, he would be solving the problems of the community and that is why I regarded him as the very important person within the community.

MR MADASA: Okay, who was with you when you went to kill these people?  Who went with you?

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] going to the veld.  This is now when you were proceeding to the veld where you were going to execute the order.

MR MADASA: Yes, Mr Chair.
	Who was with you?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I will start with the commander.  I was with Ntjebe Ndondolo.

MR MADASA: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Michael Nkomo.

MR MADASA: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Shongwe, Lefu.

CHAIRPERSON: Shongwe?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, Shongwe.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I know him as Shongwe Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, he is present here.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes Sir, that's the man standing.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] number 6.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Right.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Magogo.

MR MADASA: Is he here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No, he is not here.  Madikizela.

MR MADASA: Is he here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No, he's not here.

MR MADASA: Who else?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Holomisa.

MR MADASA: Is he here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No, he's not here.

MR MADASA: Who else?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: And Sugar.

MR MADASA: Is Sugar here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No, he has since died.

MR MADASA: Who was armed amongst you?

CHAIRPERSON: Are these the only persons who went to the veld?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Those are not the only people.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, give us all the names.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Vusi Mthembu.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you point him out to us?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That's correct Sir, he's at the back.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Rooivark was present.

MR MADASA: Is that Armoed?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, the gentleman from Sun City.

MR MADASA: That's number 1 Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MADASA: Who else?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Sorry?

MR MADASA: Who else?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Those are the rest I remember, I might have forgotten the others.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MADASA: Are there any others here perhaps whose names you have forgotten but whom you can see amongst the applicants?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: When these - are you saying present here with the applicants Sir or within the applicants?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Are there any others who are present here at the hearing amongst the applicants who were also present at the open veld when you went to execute those people but you have forgotten their names?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Swetla was also present.

MR MADASA: Number 11 Mr Chair.

MR MALAN: Lupindo?

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.

MR MADASA: Anyone else you recognise here?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No Sir, I think they are all.

MR MADASA: Now were you all armed as you took these people to the open veld?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, we armed but with different weapons.

MR MADASA: Who had what weapon?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I was an operator, I had an AK47 with me.

MR MADASA: Did anyone else have an AK47 as well, besides you?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct.  Rooivark.

MR MADASA: Who else had an AK47?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Shongwe.

MR MADASA: Were Rooivark and Shongwe also operators at that time?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: We were three guys handling AK47's.

MR MADASA: Were they also operators, Shongwe and Rooivark?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct.

MR MADASA: How were the others armed?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Ntjebe had 9mm shots.

MR MADASA: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Others had knives, like Oukappies and those assortments.

MR MADASA: Those you have mentioned are the only ones who were armed with firearms?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct.

MR MADASA: Who fired the shots at the victims?

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps tell us how were the deceased killed.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: They were shot and they were hacked and stabbed with knives.

CHAIRPERSON: Just tell us how this happened. I mean, were there people shooting, others stabbing at the same time?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Their hands were tightened up when we left for the veld.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they tied at the front or the back?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: They were tightened to each other.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, was this with a rope, a wire, with what?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It was a rope Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And they were tied with a single rope, all nine of
them?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I did not notice as to whether it was just one rope but they were tightened up with a rope.

CHAIRPERSON: They were tied together?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: If I realised well, they must have been tied two, two.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: When we arrived at the veld all of them were ordered to sit down.  Ntjebe himself starting shooting.   Our commander Ntjebe Ndondolo started shooting them with a 9mm shot and thereafter, with our AK47's, we shot them.  After shooting them, those who had sharp instruments hacked them to finish them off.

MR MADASA: Yes, continue.  After they were killed, did you all die?  Do you know if they all died there?