Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-03

MR MADASA: When had you become a member of the SDU?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: It was in 1992, in Zone 5 in Seloma.

MR MADASA: Let's clarify this issue first, you are applying for amnesty for what?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I applied for amnesty so that I may be forgiven that I took part in the cases that are being discussed in this hearing and I was the first accused, accused number one in the Court of Law.
	Now that I am here I am prepared to divulge all the information I have and put the truth on the table.

MR MADASA: Are you now on bail in that case?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, I'm on bail.

MR MADASA: Now, you are now in Moleleki, you are a member of the SDU, what was - were you an office bearer within the SDU structure?  Did you hold an office?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, I was a committee member that combined self-defence units and general and the community and the executive committee that was existing in Moleleki Extension 2.

MR MADASA: Was that committee under the SDU or civic or what?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: It was a committee that belonged to the self-defence unit.

MR MADASA: What were its functions?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Its functions were the general of the self-defence unit to discuss with the civic all the executive of the ANC and the sectional committee of Moleleki Section 2.

MR MADASA: So this committee was a liaising structure between various organisations which were in existence there?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is true.

MR MADASA: What were you in that committee?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I was just an ordinary person.

MR MADASA: Did you have specific functions that you did?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I was just and ordinary person and would listen to the general and on behalf of the general and discuss some other things with the civic and the community as well.

MR MADASA: Now, when you came to Moleleki, can you explain to the Committee if there was already an SDU structure there and if so, which areas did it patrol?

CHAIRPERSON: This is in regard to which area?

MR MADASA: Moleleki.

CHAIRPERSON: I'll tell you what Mr Madasa, we now the background as to the establishment of the SDU's in Moleleki, we hear that from Mr Motlokwa.  You need not burden us with that background unless of course there is something that you want to highlight, in which event you can do that but you can assume that we now know the background.

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair, let me be specific.
	Is it correct that Buthelezi who is on the list of deceased persons, sought to organise a different SDU structure within Moleleki?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is true Sir.  Pardon me.

MR MADASA: When Buthelezi wanted to do that there were SDU's that were patrolling Moleleki section, is that correct?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is correct.

MR MADASA: And that SDU was responsible for the whole of Moleleki from block A to F?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is correct.

MR MADASA: How did it come about that Buthelezi wanted to organise another structure, tell us about that?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: First of all Sir, I will say I bear no knowledge insofar as that is concerned and as to why he wanted to form another defence unit.   One thing I will say to you is, even so, the first self-defence unit that was already existing in Moleleki 2, he did not want to see it at all.  He did not want it completely.

MR MADASA: So what did he do, how did he organise?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: He combined the community of block F wanting to form a self-defence unit of block F only and also wanted volunteers to that effect to serve in the block F. 	Four members amongst the other members of the two who are applying for amnesty were part of block F.  They volunteered themselves in that meeting and they were withdrawn and were told that they should not volunteer themselves because their problem is  apparent.  The two of them are applying for amnesty.

MR MADASA: Sorry?

CHAIRPERSON: Who are they?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: It is Moses Augustine and Themba Christopher Mtshali.

CHAIRPERSON: So these two individuals volunteered for the SDU organised by Mr Buthelezi?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is true.

MR MADASA: How did Buthelezi do this, did they call a meeting?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Oh yes, he called for a meeting in block F where people had to convene and he put forward his request that he wanted people to volunteer themselves to this effect.

MR MADASA: And these people you have just mentioned who are applicants, were they living in block F at that time?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That's correct.

MR MADASA: Who attended that meeting?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: The members of the self-defence unit, four of them who were there in block F and the two that have applied for amnesty.

MR MADASA: What I want to know, why did they volunteer to be part of another unit when it was already in existence?

CHAIRPERSON: And who?  Even the two who are applicants?

MR MADASA: Yes, the two.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, shouldn't you address that question to them unless he knows though?

MR MADASA: If you know, if you don't know Sir, you don't know.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I think since they resided in block F they deemed it fit to volunteer themselves automatically.

MR MADASA: Okay, where did Buthelezi come from?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: From what I heard, although I knew him for a short period of time, he came from Tokoza in Zongezizwe and came know to Moleleki Extension 2.

MR MADASA: And Zongezizwe was a stronghold of Inkatha?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: First of all Zongezizwe had all deferent races and subsequently it was a stronghold of IFP.

MR MADASA: So when Buthelezi came to Moleleki, Zongezizwe was no longer for Zongezizwe so to speak, it was now a stronghold of Inkatha.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I will say even other races were part of Inkatha, but I would like to say Inkatha was the one who was dominant in Zongezizwe.

MR MADASA: Who addressed that meeting which Buthelezi had convened?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: It was himself and other comrades from block F where Bulelwa the sister was present as well.

MR MADASA: Was that SDU which he was organising eventually formed?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I think it was eventually formed Mr Chair, because if it wasn't formed we wouldn't be where we are today.

MR MADASA: What was it called?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Even though it did bear any name known as SDU but from its actions - it had no name, that's all I can say to you.

MR MADASA: Did it have a relationship with the ANC Youth League?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I would like to say yes to that.  It had a relationship with the Youth League because some of the members who rule from the Youth League became its members.

MR MADASA: Did these members join Buthelezi's - did the members of the ANC Youth League join Buthelezi's group after they had divided themselves from you?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I want to agree to that point.

MR MADASA: And what were they called or how did they call themselves?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: They had no name except that they called themselves ANC Youth League.

MR MADASA: So what you're saying is that - is this ANC Youth League you're now referring to the same as the one Motlokwa earlier on referred to after it had separated itself from the SDU?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is correct.

MR MADASA: So what you're saying is that Buthelezi was instrumental in causing the division between the ANC Youth League and SDU, is that what you say?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That's what I want to say Sir.

MR MADASA: Did he have anything against the SDU that was already in existence?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: He was not clear if he was against the SDU but what surprises me is that we lived in one area and the four who resided in block F who volunteered themselves were withdrawn.  I would like to say there is something that he was up to.