Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR MKHIZE: No, it is Bhekinkosi.

ADV SIGODI: So the name Mbekiseni, we should scrap?

MR MKHIZE: That is not my name.

CHAIRPERSON: Please raise your voice when you speak so that everybody at the back can hear what you are saying, and please speak slowly and take note that there are Interpreters who interpret what you are saying into English and Sotho, therefore you should also give them an opportunity to interpret what you are saying.
	If you do not understand a question, ask them to repeat it for you.  Yes Mr Strydom, you may proceed.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Mkhize, you applied for amnesty and you have filled in a so-called Form 1.  I want you to have a look at the document on page 61 of the index.

MR MKHIZE: There is a noise in the headphones.

INTERPRETER: There seems to be an interference in his headphones.

MR LAX: Can the Interpreter just talk?

INTERPRETER: In English or Zulu?

MR LAX: It doesn't matter, just so that we can see, there is obviously something wrong with that headphone.

INTERPRETER: Can anybody hear me?

MR LAX: We can hear you fine, thank you.  Can you hear us now, Mr Mkhize?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I can hear you.

MR LAX: Okay.

MR STRYDOM: I was referring to the Form 1, on page 61, 62, 63 and with the annexure on page 64 and 65.  Firstly I want you to have a look at your signature on page 63, do you identify your signature?

MR MKHIZE: That is my signature.

MR STRYDOM: Then I want to refer you to the annexure, setting out certain of the answers in more detail.  Do you confirm the contents of this document, has it been explained to you?

MR MKHIZE: I think yes, I do, because I signed the document.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what is your standard of education?

MR MKHIZE: Standard 2.

MR STRYDOM: Certain further particulars were asked and you provided your legal advisors with answers and you stand by the answers as contained in the bundle, on page 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74?  Has it again been explained to you?  Do you confirm the correctness of your answers?

MR MKHIZE: Although I cannot be absolutely certain because I cannot read, but I hope that that is indeed my responses.

MR STRYDOM: Then I want to refer you to the affidavit you have made on page 75, 76, 77, 78 of the bundle.  Do you confirm that that is your signature on the last page thereof?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I do.

MR STRYDOM: Are you a member of the Inkatha Freedom Party?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I am.

MR STRYDOM: For how long have you been a member of that party?

MR MKHIZE: I think it is about ten years now, because I joined even before I came to Johannesburg.

MR STRYDOM: Approximately when did you come to Johannesburg, how many years ago?

MR MKHIZE: I came to Johannesburg in 1975.

MR STRYDOM: Where did you come from?

MR MKHIZE: From Mahlabatini.

MR STRYDOM: When you came to Johannesburg, initially where did you stay?

MR MKHIZE: I stayed at Sebokeng hostel.

MR STRYDOM: At a certain stage you moved over to the kwaMadala hostel, when was that?

MR MKHIZE: It was in 1990.

MR STRYDOM: In your affidavit, on page 75 you stated that you moved into the hostel in 1992.  Is that date correct or not?

MR MKHIZE: Although I cannot be absolutely certain, I think it was in 1990.  What I know is that I moved from Sebokeng hostel into kwaMadala.

MR STRYDOM: Why did you move to kwaMadala hostel?

MR MKHIZE: We were actually chased out of the hostel by the ANC.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know why the ANC chased you out of the hostel?

MR MKHIZE: They attacked us because we were IFP members and because we were also Zulu's and at that time Zulu's were no longer permitted to be in Sebokeng.

MR STRYDOM: Was any of your property damaged whilst you were still in Boipatong, by ANC members?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Can you briefly state what happened?

MR MKHIZE: My fridge and my car were damaged, they were actually burnt, and also my clothing, bedding, household goods were also burnt.
	Some they confiscated and some they burnt.

MR STRYDOM: During that time, where did you work?

MR MKHIZE: I used to work at Metal Box.

MR STRYDOM: Are you still employed by Metal Box or not?

MR MKHIZE: No.

MR STRYDOM: Why did you leave your employment there?

MR MKHIZE: I was being sought after, because I was alone there and I decided to flee and leave my employment.

MR STRYDOM: In the kwaMadala hostel, did you hold any leadership position?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: What was your position during 1992?

MR MKHIZE: I was the leader of AmaButho.

MR STRYDOM: Can you just briefly state what does the AmaButho entail.

MR MKHIZE: I was responsible for everything that went on in the AmaButho.

MR STRYDOM: Can you give me examples, what were your principal responsibilities?

MR MKHIZE: I was responsible for the welfare and the well being of AmaButho.

CHAIRPERSON: What you are being asked is to tell us very briefly what you would do as Indunas?  What did you do?

MR MKHIZE: At that time, I was the Commander of AmaButho, everything that had to do with AmaButho, was my responsibility.  Even when we went to rallies, I would lead the AmaButho in those rallies.

MR STRYDOM: During 1992, could people living in the kwaMadala hostel, move freely to Boipatong and other towns in the Vaal Triangle?

MR MKHIZE: It never used to happen.  If you went out, you would have to do so in a group of eight to ten.  You could not walk alone because if you actually went alone, you won't return, you will be killed.

MR STRYDOM: What was the hostel residents' attitude towards this situation?

MR MKHIZE: They were very unhappy about the situation, because they could no longer go out to the shops, there was nothing that one was free to do.  Even if you wanted to go to town, you were unable to do so.
	Some of us were actually taken hostage in town.

MR STRYDOM: In your affidavit on page 76, you make mention of a meeting that took place in the hostel approximately one week before the attack on Boipatong.  Can you give us more detail about what happened at this meeting?

MR MKHIZE: At that meeting, that meeting was actually held to discuss the issue of the people who were being killed.  I was actually being asked what I was going to do about it, because people were being killed in town.
	They had actually come to complain to me, what was I going to do about the situation and they wanted me to advise on what to do.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know a person by the name of Damara Qunchu?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I know him very well.

MR STRYDOM: During that period, what was his position?

MR MKHIZE: He was my assistant.

MR STRYDOM: As a result of all the complaints and the meeting that was held approximately one week before the attack on Boipatong, what was decided to do about the situation?

MR MKHIZE: Please repeat the question.

MR STRYDOM: You already told the Committee that you as the leader of the AmaButho received all these complaints from the residents and they asked you what are you going to do about it.
	The question is, what did you do about it?

MR MKHIZE: Because of the pressure that I was under, I asked them to give me some time because I could see that even my life was threatened, until such time that we took the decision that we should attack, because I could see that people were being attacked and my life was even threatened by the people that I was staying with, because I was now under pressure to act.

MR STRYDOM: And in which manner did you act?  What did you do, what did you decide?

MR MKHIZE: I told Qunchu that there is no other way except to attack, because the people are complaining and I also realised that my life was in danger, therefore we should just attack and we agreed about this with Qunchu.

MR STRYDOM: We all know that the attack took place on the 17th of June 1992.  When was the, when did you have this discussion with Qunchu?

MR MKHIZE: Although I cannot remember correctly, but it was just a few days before.
	I cannot say precisely what the date was.