Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LAX: All right.  Where was Mr Ngobani at this stage?

WITNESS:   Mr Ngobani was inside the boot, the car's boot.   (Inaudible)   ---   Yes, they ... (incomplete)

MR LAX: Please continue.

WITNESS:   We drove, and I wished we could meet other cars so that I would make a scene, I would try and open the door, but we didn't meet other cars.  So they continued driving with us, and I tried to push this policeman and I tried to open the door.  And this policeman realised that I was trying to open the door and I was trying to run away, and the police said, "You are going to talk over the over," and then I started being quiet and then drove.  They take a U-turn and they said to us we are going to remain inside the car and they are going to leave us.  And all the policemen, the three of them, left.  And when this police who was next to me - as he was leaving the car I tried to follow him, and then he hit me.  He hit me by his gun, and his gun shot me at my finger and I fell down.  I tried to roll over.  I tried to roll until I reach a place where there was water, and I remained there for a while.  And I just thought they were just looking for me and they just didn't find me.  After a while I heard gunshots.  I heard one after the other.  After a while one, and I realised that they were shooting those people.  And I stayed inside the water until morning.  Early in the morning I tried to walk.  I walked to the farm a white man's farm, and I asked for the help, and he didn't want to help me.  And I went to another farm man and the next one helped me, because I asked him to make a call and he called.  And I asked him to take me by his car, and he asked me why can't he call police.  And I said, "I am scared to call police," and Mr Ben said, "Okay, I am going to take you the police."  And I went there, I went to the shop, and I asked them to call 'Maritzburg.  And they told them that I am hurt, I am at a certain place, and the police came.  In other words this white man called the police, so the police came and they looked for me, and they found me there and they took me.  They took me to MAWU, and when we arrived there they took a statement.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... took place where they stopped the cars and they did the U-turns and so on.  Where was that?

WITNESS:   On the way to Rounds Lane(?).  From Mpophomeni to Rounds Lane.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Lions River.

MR LAX: At the time you were shot what actually happened?  Were you trying to push that man away and escape?  What happened?  Did you try and get out of the car?

WITNESS:   I wanted to get away.

MR LAX: What happened to these people and the car that they were in?

WITNESS:   They were left inside the car.  I left them there.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... there was a case afterwards, or an inquest?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a case, because I remember one time they said I must come to court.  And when I went there I also found members of Inkatha there.  And they asked me some questions, and I didn't hear whether they were asked some questions those people from Inkatha, or they were not asked.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... what actually happened was that there was an inquest, and the Inquest Magistrate in Howick found that the following people were responsible for the deaths of your comrades.  Maurice Thusi, Joseph Mabaso, Nhlanhla Shabalala, Thulani Mchunu, Bhekisizwe Majozi, Bhekugwense Mtshali, Msikayifane Cele, Vele Mchunu and Dumisani Mkhize.  These are the people that the Court found, after hearing evidence, were responsible.  But this was an inquiry into the deaths of your friends and your brother, it wasn't a court case as such, and as far as we are aware those people have never been prosecuted by a Court.  Now ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes, that might be true, because I never heard anything.  There was no case afterwards.  They were not sentenced.

MR LAX: That is correct.  They have never been sentenced for - or even tried in a court for this incident.  Now, at the inquest the Court heard evidence of the doctor's examination of the bodies of the deceased, and just for the record the inquest finding in respect of Mr Ngobani was that he had suffered a brain haemorrhage and a haemorrhage of his body cavity, in other words his chest.  They couldn't say whether he had been shot or not because unfortunately all the bodies were burnt.  And then in respect of your brother, he had a - what is described as a penetrating wound of the heart, probably caused by a bullet.  And then in respect of Filomina Mngathi there was a penetrating wound of the lung.  What the inquest found happened is that after they were shot or stabbed, or both, the vehicle was set alight and the bodies burnt inside.  I am just telling you this because I am not sure that anyone has formally told you this properly.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.  No one ever came to me and told me this.

MR LAX: Tell us a little bit about your brother, Phineas.  Did he have any children, or was he married?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was married and he had kids, two kids, and he had his own family and house.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... his death.

WITNESS:   They experienced lots of problems, and it was so sad because even the wife has now passed away because she couldn't take it.  The kids are left alone.

MR LAX: Who is looking after the children?

WITNESS:   It's my mother.

MR LAX: We will hear from Mrs Ngobani about her family.  As far as Filomina Mngathi is concerned, did she have a family, was she married?  Did you know her at all?

WITNESS:  She was single.  I don't have an idea, but all I know is that she was single.

MR LAX: I have no further questions to the witness.

MR LAX: I would like to ask a few questions because everything seems to be clear now.  You said there was one guy who gave you help.  Do you still remember the name of the guy?   The farmer who helped you, do you still remember the name of the farmer?

WITNESS:   I don't know his name.

MR LAX: But do you know where he stays?  Do you know where the farm is and where we can get hold of him?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.

MR LAX: And this doctor, do you remember the name of the doctor that you were taken to?

WITNESS:   No, I don't.  He was a doctor from 'Maritzburg.

MR LAX: But do you remember the place?

WITNESS:   No, it was in an office.  He treated me in MAWU's office.

MR LAX: I discovered that in that hall you just said they were full of people.  Who opened this hall?  Who was responsible for the keys of this community hall?

WITNESS:   Mr Maurice was responsible for the hall.

MR LAX: Where was he from?  Was he the one who was opening the hall for the community?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR LAX: /MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: Mrs Ngobani, if there is something which you  would like to say I have to ask you to stand to please take the oath.   Can you stand up please.

BENEDICTA BUSISIWE NGOBANI: (Sworn, States)

MR LAX: Once again greetings, Mrs Ngobani, and welcome here, and we're really sorry about what has happened to you and to your husband, and we understand how difficult it is for you to talk about these things.  Is there anything you would like to add - or in fact before we start perhaps - is it correct that you were born on the 25th of December 1958?

WITNESS:   25 December.

MR LAX: And you have five children.

WITNESS:   Yes.  The first one is 21, the second-born is 17 years old, the third-born is 16 years, the fourth one it's 11 years old, the fifth one is 10 years old.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, they are all in school.

MR LAX: And you are presently working, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I am staying there.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... you want to add to what we've already heard from Mr Sibiya about the events of that time?

WITNESS:   What Mr Sibiya has said it's true.

MR LAX: Can you tell us how this whole incident has affected your family?