Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-08-22

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: When I came back no, I couldn't find my child.  I came back in 1992 on the 16th of December.

DR BORAINE: [Indistinct]

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: I have been looking for my child all over the place, I have been to Transkei, other people they were helping me, he or she is nowhere to be found.

DR BORAINE: [Indistinct] thank you very much.  The other question is you mentioned that in the beating that they gave you in 1978, just before you left.  That your hand was injured, your fingers, were cracked, how many fingers?

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: It's these ones, there are three.

DR BORAINE: There are three, and were there any other injuries on your body?

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: Yes I was kicked on my knee, here on this knee - on this leg.

DR BORAINE: [Indistinct]

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: Yes I was very much injured, even now I can still feel the pain sometime - sometimes I can't even go anywhere because of it.

DR BORAINE: And the pain was so great but you decided that if you were going to live you had better leave.

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: Very much so because I thought they were going to kill me, especially after the took me to the forest, they  say to me eventually you, you will get what you looking for if you don't stop this.  But then I told them I will never take a pass laws, I will never take pass laws even - even on the judgement day I will never, this is South Africa, if you don't know that.
They said you are going to get your day one day.  Something came to me - you know when I was asleep at night, at night I just thought - I just thought you know this people has been warning me one of these days they are going to kill me.  I just took my bags as if I am just going next door, aah, but I was going away.  That's how I left.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you mamma, we thank you very much.  We also thank to have people like you - people who know that when there is somebody, who is trying to influence other people, this people can see this and try to prevent that.  We also thank - thank you for your bravery.  To see that you are not afraid - our presence here is because you people.  [indistinct]  is - was going to witness also about the statement given by Ms Zweni, but it looks like she is not going to say anything, because it looks like mamma you have already said everything.  Mamma is that so?

NOMAKULA EVELYN ZWENI: She just wants to add something about the bodies.

INTERPRETER: Ms Girlsie Nyembezi is going to be - is going to take an oath,  Dr Boraine is going to do the procedure.

DR BORAINE: Thank  you very much.  
GIRLSIE NYEMBEZI Duly sworn states.

DR BORAINE: Pumla thank you.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thanks Alex.  Thank you mamma - after Dr Boraine, mamma you said you going to say a word or two.  Thank you mamma for your coming here.  We apologise for the fact that he had to go up the stairs, I can see that your knees are not that strong anymore.  But then we thank you for coming.
You said you want to say a few  words.  How do you know Ms Zweni, just please tell us that.

MS NYEMBEZI: I know mamma - Ms Zweni very much, we've been together for a long time.  We grew up together while we were still at Tani -  we were brought here by sufferings.
About the bodies she's talking about, she's telling the truth.  I was counting them myself, there were 175.  I was counting these bodies myself and NY5, those were the ones that happened overnight.  We made a decision to talk to one of the members of Parliament at CI at the Black Sash office, but now we were told to come the following morning.
We were called to talk to one of the members of the Parliament.  We talked to him or her, there a woman was Ms Helen Suzmann.  It was me, Zantsi - Ms Thesapi  - Ms Mazula  we went to count these graves, then we came to report.  And she asked us are you sure about these - are you sure about these graves.  We said yes.
We said we were now sitting at the place that is now called Barcelona.  Now that we are the African National Congress we told them that  we don't  those trees there, because those trees are covering up all those graves.   They said - we said now those - these trees are covering up even the smell of those bodies that are there.  They just kept quite when we wanted to ask them how can you hear, how can you smell something that is underground.
Ms Suzmann told us that something like this will not happen again.  She said go home, where are you going to work tomorrow.  We said we are going to start at Pinelands, after Crossroads.  Really and we did that, we were CHACO, that was the first organisation - we were working very hard  end of Tape 5, side A ... but the bodies is so much, so Father Rhamsy  and just - she sat over us.  He sat over us, he - you - that have beat me up instead of these woman.
Now the police left, when the police left we made as if we were going home.  And then in the morning we went to Crossroads and we worked hard there.  We came back by the National Road, we didn't want to go - we didn't want to take the road between the houses.
Then we went back and we sat there in that place.  And we talked - we talked about these things to the - with the other cadres.  We just said what we are going to do now, is to fight for the freedom.  Now obviously people cannot just beat us up as if - we started with the - we started at the office.  We thought this people are not well on their heads because - because of the way they beat us up.
We went up the shopping centres, we went to Ben de Goosen ?? from there we burnt  the post office, from there we burnt The Pig, from there we burn the police station.  We took a loaf of bread and just water that we - we fetch with a bottle and then we ate that.  We didn't eat the whole day, myself and this woman next to me.  She lost her child, she doesn't even know now where her child is.
Even after that, she said comrade I am leaving, she said.  I said where are you going, she said I don't know.  It's only now that I see her, she left for exile.  That's the end, I don't want to say to much, because I also - I also have my own case.  That's my mother over there she is the one who made me somebody in this world.
That mother over - that woman over there Mary, she is the one who really helped me out.  I didn't have a house, Mary over there and others helped me with a house that I have now.  I didn't have parents, she - that is the mother - the woman who helped me with everything.  
Those people from The Black Sash. I am somebody today because of that Black Sash.  They are the ones who helped me, to have something to eat,  Sister Townsend and everybody else and all, they were helping Mary and others to make me somebody.  Don't say anything to me about the Black Sash, I will die for Black Sash.
Today I have a house because of those woman.  Those are my parents.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: It's all right mamma we - we just thank you that we are grateful that Mary and others are here at this Commission.  Ja there were many people at that time who didn't want this torturing to people to still go on.  We are grateful to you for telling us about your sufferings.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you mamma, now as you have promised that you coming back,  you - we will hear your case then, thank you.