Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR WILLS: Now, you confirm that on one occasion the Riot Unit from Pretoria was once brought to work in Hammersdale and these policemen even visited you.  I refer to the top of page 10 which is paragraph 18, it's quite a long paragraph.

MR HLONGWANE: Page 10?

MR WILLS: Page 139 of the record and at the top of the page.

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now you'd been operating for a while when you say that Madla Nduna came to Hammersdale, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: Can you give the Committee Members an idea of how long you'd been operating in this position as an Inkatha Youth Member attacking the UDF before Madla Nduna came?

MR HLONGWANE: If I'm not mistaken I think Madla Nduna arrived in '86 or '87 and I started working in 1984.

MR WILLS: So you'd been operating already by this stage, for a period of three years as an active IFP Youth Member who attacked the UDF, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct, we did so.

MR WILLS: Now, my understanding of this violence is that it was extremely intense violence with extremely close and intense fighting, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now again in paragraph 20 you mentioned certain incidents that you were involved in in Hammersdale.   I'm not going to concern ourselves with that at his hearing, we'll talk about that when we go to Hammersdale, okay?

MR HLONGWANE: Okay, I understand.

MR WILLS: I want to turn to paragraph 22 where you indicate that you were recruited as a South African Police Special Constable, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now you say you just deserted your job at Glacier Bearings because Nketle told you that you could get a job with the Inkatha people, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And you didn't even pick up your pay from Glacier Bearings, you just left there and there and immediately went to the police station to fill in the application forms, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now were there UDF members with you filling in application forms for this position which was for special training as Constables?

MR HLONGWANE: A UDF member would have been killed on the spot.  It was only IFP members who were recruited and not UDF members because our intention was to come back and kill the same UDF people.

MR WILLS: Now you indicate that at that stage you met a couple of the Caprivi trainees and you list them in paragraph 25 at page 142, but I want to concentrate on the actual training you received.  You indicate that you were eventually taken from Pietermartizburg and you did some training at the Koeberg in the Cape, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Is it not so that that was - that you also saw Mr Mkhize at this training?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now what did the SAP members train you as regards the attitude towards the ANC or the UDF at this Koeberg training?

MR HLONGWANE: The training that I received involved training on shot gun and 9mm pistols.  What they used to tell us, that on our return we were going to kill the UDF.

MR WILLS: Is this the South African Police trainers at Koeberg?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, the white policemen.

MR WILLS: You trained for about six weeks in Koeberg and you then were deployed for a time in Maritzburg under the immediate command of a person, Warrant Officer Penz, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: I'm referring to the bottom of page - now again I'm not going to deal with the incident that occurred in Maritzburg so I am going to move right now from page 145 to just an incident in, to page 147, okay?  Have you got page 147?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now you indicate that a certain policeman there assisted you in avoiding arrest, is that correct?  Can you just briefly explain to the Committee Members and the public who this policeman was?

MR HLONGWANE: It was Warrant Officer van Vuuren.

MR WILLS: And how did he assist you evading arrest?

MR HLONGWANE: I was supposed to go on duty at 10, I did not do so.  He arrived at 6 o'clock, we called him Mr Six Eleven.  He hooted outside and told me that I was wanted by the police, that I should leave the area.  I went to Zakele and talked to him and thereafter I was taken to Ulundi.

MR WILLS: So basically what you're saying is this Mr van Vuuren was stationed at the Hammersdale Police Station, is that correct?  So he drove all the way to Pietermartizburg where you were stationed to give you this warning, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: He worked at Hammersdale.

MR WILLS: No, I know van Vuuren worked at Hammersdale but when he gave you this information, where were you at that time when he spoke to you?

MR HLONGWANE: I think I made a mistake somewhere.  At about 10 in the evening I went into the house together with Mundi and after posting, a telephone call came in and it was van Vuuren on the line and he said I should not go on duty because I was wanted by the police.  I was in Pietermaritzburg at the time and the following morning I went to Hammersdale and he told me that they were going to fix my case, thereafter I went to Mr Zakele Nkethle.
	On arriving there I was given money and I went to Ulundi to Mr M Z Khumalo.  And on arriving at Ulundi Mr Khumalo said he had already heard about me and he said I had done a good job and he told me to stay at his house.  After supper on that day I was given a place to sleep.  I was given ...[intervention]

MR WILLS: Sorry, this person - I might have missed something, the person you went to in Ulundi, who was this person?

MR HLONGWANE: Mr M Z Khumalo.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And did he arrange eventually for you to go into hiding at a camp which has been referred to by Mr Luthuli and that was the Makuzi Camp?

MR HLONGWANE: I was taken by car to Makuzi Camp.  I was with Mr Biela.  Mr Khumalo's son stopped us and said all major routes were closed and we returned to Ulundi and Mr Luthuli took me himself thereafter to Makuzi.

MR WILLS: And were the roads blocked?  What was the reason for the roads being blocked?

MR HLONGWANE: Police wanted to arrest us but at the same time they were communicating telephonically with M Z Khumalo.

MR WILLS: So in other words what you're saying, what you've said in affidavit is, the South African Police were wanting to arrest you?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And that these persons assisted you in evading that arrest?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, they did.

MR WILLS: I want you now to turn to page 165 - sorry, and just very briefly there, you indicate there that you had been operating in Ermelo and then you got instructions to move to somewhere else, who gave you these instructions and where were you told to move to?

MR HLONGWANE: From Ermelo Madla Nduna telephoned me that he needed me at eSikhawini.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now, before you left Ermelo - and I refer you to page 167 of your affidavit, you and some other people received other training by the SANDF, by the SADF should I say, do you recall that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And who told you to go on this training?

MR HLONGWANE: M Z Khumalo.

MR WILLS: And now - where was this training?

MR HLONGWANE: I don't remember correctly because we travelled around a lot.

MR WILLS: Now again, in the second lot of training that you received - and please refer to your, I want you to refer to page 167 and paragraph 96, it might refresh your memory.  Can you see paragraph 96?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, I do.

MR WILLS: Was this training in the Ulundi area, not far from Ulundi?

MR HLONGWANE: We went to Ulundi and from there we were transported by bus to a destination in the Northern direction.

MR WILLS: Now again, the people that were trained in this particular, on this particular occasion, were they all members of the same organisation?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And what organisation was that?