Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Is Viv going to add anything or it will happen   in the question and answer section? Is there anything you want to add? Thank   you very much for another moving testimony. Siyabulele. Mncebisi?
REV.

M XUNDU: Thank you very much Mr Chairperson. I also want to start in saying   how you have raised our feelings in your submission about trying to reveal the   total truth and the position of the Methodist Church as such for all the things   that happened in the period of our repression. I do, however, want to put one   or two questions just for clarity. You have listed say in page 2 for instance   what the Methodist Church did in terms of resolutions. There is a period I want   to ask about that does not appear in that submission. Remember in 1970 all the   mainline churches and their relations made the resolution which condemned the   World Council of Churches for their attitude to support the programme to combat   racism. And if I remember correctly, the Methodist Church also made such a resolution.   That resolution resulted in probably giving an indication to the government   of South Africa and the rest of the world community that the churches are indeed   against the liberation movements. Would you like to make a comment on that?

UNKNOWN: Yes. You will recall that in my submission I have made   reference to the tensions that existed within the Methodist Church itself. It   is not my intention to try and speak about our church as a divided body, because   we are trying all we can still to help one another to get to a position where   we will have a reconciled attitude to our history. The Methodist Church at that   time officially did express its uncertainty about the programme to combat racism,   but at the same time it affirmed the responsibility of the World Church to raise   questions against apartheid and one of the reasons the Methodist Church did   not at that time pull out of the World Council of Churches was precisely its   commitment and understanding that the World Church has a responsibility to be   prophetic about any aspect of life. But having said that, it is with shame that   in fact we or some parts of our church felt very strongly at the time that the   World Council of Churches might have been interfering in what in their view   was not a territory they should intervene in. But that was not the official   position of our church. 
REV.

M XUNDU: Also you mentioned at some stage the painful rift with the Transkeian   area. What I want to know is what kind of witness and resistance did the Methodists   both ordained and non-ordained try to organise in the Transkei against this   unnecessary and totally dictatorial way of seizing literally both properties   and also making it impossible for the Methodist Church to pastor in that area?

UNKNOWN: You will recall Sir that there were some of our ordained   ministers who refused to be part of the church that was created in Transkei   by the government of that time and a number of them suffered severely in the   hands of the State. You will also remember that the intention of the Transkei   government at the time was not merely to mobilise those ministers who at the   time were ministering in the territory of Transkei, but it sought to try and   lure back into Transkei all Methodist ministers whose birth roots were in Transkei.   And so there was a very significant resistance in the Methodist Church of Southern   Africa at the level of individuals. Officially the church organised a number   of meetings with that government to try and bring that government to its senses   on this matter to no avail. Also it would be appropriate to say here as I have   indicated in my submission some of our ministers felt that they could not leave   at that time. There were some who I would believe took the opportunity and probably   used it for their own ends, but as we were in consultations with our ministers   in the area, one of the thorny questions that used to disturb them very deeply   in their consciences, was whether they would abandon the people God had given   to them to minister to at that time. And I know a good number of ministers who   were never happy and this is why it is difficult to condemn all of them outright,   but the situation compromised all of us. It compromised those who did not go   back to Transkei as people who did not care for the spiritual lives of their   own people, it compromised those who remained in Transkei as people who did   not care for the welfare of the church Catholic, so we all came out of that   soiled. 
REV.

M XUNDU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Any other questions? Mgojo? (Laughter) I   wonder why? I mean(indistinct) Thomas?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Subject to correction, Bishop, there was a time in our history   when the Methodist Church was a very strong provider of education and that that   era was interfered with by the State. I don't know whether that in itself doesn't   mark the failure of the church to provide sound moral standards to the black   people, more especially looking at the present day situation. I can't understand   why the churches don't account for just that loss and that kind of a weakness   that was characteristic of it, and this is perhaps is why they have not even   begun to tackle the issue of local community schools very strongly. That is   whether to revive them and what the obstacles can be and to open up a debate   in that direction Bishop. Can you please account for that. Why don't we see   failure to provide black people with education as a failure of the church? More   so as imposed by the government of the day.