Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

MS ROUX: I am terribly sorry, but my views about this whole situation that we are talking about today, this looks to me like a back door.  Anybody who has committed a crime or done something wrong, just to say "look, I'm sorry" and then two years later that opinion might have changed. It is unrealistic. Somebody who had the convictions that they had, and now to reverse that completely in less than two years and to say now my political convictions are different. What's going to prevent them after another two years to reverse the opinion again. Has it been proved that people who do damage to our society, is it right to put them back into the public arena?

UNKNOWN: Is it also your view that people who are in politics such as the President and other highly placed office-bearers who committed crimes, is it your view that they also shouldn't have been released?

MS ROUX: Yes, that is my view.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, I don't have any further questions, Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RHOODE

HASSAN MALL: I am really not asking you any questions. I just think that maybe I should explain this to you, that if you are not aware that in fact, during the trial, when the two accused were tried in the Supreme Court, Mr Du Plessis was found not guilty or was not convicted on the three murders, it was only Mr Van Wyk. The application for amnesty, any application for the three murders is only really in respect of Mr Van Wyk and not Mr Du Plessis.

MS ROUX: I am sorry if I did not state that clear enough.  As far as I am concerned, what Mr Du Plessis said today is truly acceptable to me. I think my main concern at this stage is about Mr Van Wyk.

HASSAN MALL: Did you know the two workers who were killed on that day?

MS ROUX: Yes, I did.

HASSAN MALL: And did you know whether they had family or relatives nearby?

MS ROUX: I know some of their relatives do live in Venda, but we were never introduced to each other. As you know the custom is, you know, they just come to work and go home.  We never really see their families, but I definitely know that they did have families.

HASSAN MALL: Have you seen any of them?

MS ROUX: No.

JUDGE WILSON: How long had they worked for you?

MS ROUX: You know, as farmworkers come and go, I think, but they really worked for us a few years, I think more or less four years.

JUDGE WILSON: Thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you very much.

MS ROUX: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, that concludes the evidence of the next-of-kin.

HASSAN MALL: I understand arrangements have been made amongst counsel that instead of addressing us in open court, they will make written submissions. Is that correct?

UNKNOWN: With the leave of this Committee, we would appreciate if that indulgence could be granted us.  Because we believe there are intricate questions that we would like to address to you.

HASSAN MALL: Yes, but the only point on which I would like some clarity is by what time you are thinking that should be done?

UNKNOWN: I would need about a week to have it here, Mr Chairman, I am from Ladysmith and I am doing a case in Kimberley tomorrow and I will be able to work over the weekend.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Mine would also be liable to be ready within a week's time.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, also in agreement with Mr Mpshe, we have certain documents that will be attached to the submissions which have not been lodged yet, such as the heads of argument of the State advocate on the trial of the two applicants which have some relevant arguments in it as well.

HASSAN MALL: You may do so.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.  Thank you, gentlemen.

JUDGE WILSON: Sorry, there is one point that I would like to clear up. We don't want the heads delivered here.

UNKNOWN: No.

JUDGE WILSON: If you will make arrangements with Mr Mpshe that he can get them and ensure that they are properly forwarded to us.

UNKNOWN: Sorry, to the Cape Town office?

JUDGE WILSON: Yes.

HASSAN MALL: Ladies and gentlemen, that brings to an end then this particular sitting of the Amnesty Committee.  Those of you who may not know, there was another matter which was due to have been considered by us, but for certain reasons and difficulties, it has been arranged to hear that application on another occasion. Thank you.  We will adjourn.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS