Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

ELSIE BUWA: The grandchild was looking for his mother and his mother was hiding in the wardrobe that is in my bedroom.

UNKNOWN: Yes, and then?

ELSIE BUWA: They hacked me on my finger as I was trying to reach out for the child.

UNKNOWN: Anything else that happened, Mrs Buwa?

ELSIE BUWA: They left the house and as we later realised, some people had removed property from the house.  On that night we realised that they had taken all blankets as well as items of clothing that were in my son's and his wife's wardrobe.

UNKNOWN: Anything else?  They took the blankets, they took the clothes, anything else, Mrs Buwa?

ELSIE BUWA: The TV and the hi-fi stereo was also removed.

UNKNOWN: And was there any damage done to your home that evening?

ELSIE BUWA: The big windows were all broken and they entered through the windows.  The doors were too strong for them to open so they came in through the big windows.

UNKNOWN: Mrs Buwa, can you please tell the Committee, who do you know that was injured in your home that night, amongst your family members?

ELSIE BUWA: Myself and Mavis were injured.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, nothing further Mrs Buwa.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: We intend taking the lunch adjournment at this stage and then coming back at half past one and then we will take a tea adjournment at about three and another tea adjournment at about five - I beg your pardon, we'll adjourn at five, I'm sorry.  We adjourn at five.  Yes, very well.
	Mrs Buwa, we're taking lunch now, we'll come back at half past one.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Buwa, may I remind you that you're still under oath.

ELSIE BUWA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: If you can, could you just speak up.

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I will try.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, Chairperson, I haven't got any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions, Mr Lowies?

MR LOWIES: Yes, thank you, Chairman.
	Mrs Buwa, how far would you say - sorry, I retract.  Do you know Mr Wilson Baloyi?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I know him.

MR LOWIES: How far is your house from his?

ELSIE BUWA: Baloyi's house is on the other side of the street, just in front of my house.

MR LOWIES: Can you show the distance or is it not possible for you, from where you're sitting? - indicate a distance.

ELSIE BUWA: It's not a long distance, from where I am sitting I just cross the street and then get into Baloyi's household.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to indicate the distance to us, by indicating for example, from where you are to this table or to the other table there of to some point in the hall?  Are you able to do that?

ELSIE BUWA: It's not a long distance.  From where I am pointing to the table I just cross the street, because my dining-room door is facing Baloyi's house.

CHAIRPERSON: That distance is about what, is it 12 - no, no, seven.

UNKNOWN: I wouldn't agree with that, Chair, I have no idea, I'm sorry.

MR LOWIES: It was measured by my learned friend as seven on a previous occasion.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think it was seven.

ELSIE BUWA: I don't know, you see I am not educated.  I've never been to school.

CHAIRPERSON: We understand that.

MR LOWIES: Mrs Buwa, I see that you were already asleep on the night of the incident, when you heard a shot.  My question is, was the light in the room on or off when you went to sleep?

ELSIE BUWA: Should I answer?  It was - the lights were on.  The whole house actually.  They actually switched on the lights in all the rooms.

ADV SIGODI: I thought the question was; were the lights on or off when you went to sleep?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, the lights were off.

MR LOWIES: What lights do you have at this specific place, do you have electric lights or did you have electric lights on the night of the incident?

ELSIE BUWA: We are using electric lights, the whole house.

MR LOWIES: Now when did you become aware of the presence of somebody inside the room where you were, how did it happen?

ELSIE BUWA: I did say earlier on that these people walked into the room as I was sitting on the bed.

MR LOWIES: Did you try to hide yourself?

ELSIE BUWA: I did not, instead I tried to hide the children.

MR LOWIES: Where did you try to hide the children?

ELSIE BUWA: Some of them were under the bed and my last-born child has had this baby and I hid this baby behind the wardrobe. - the baby and mother actually.

MR LOWIES: And you were sitting on the bed when they entered?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I sat on the bed because I had nowhere to go, so they would rather kill me.

MR LOWIES: And I take it that you didn't want them to see what was going on inside the bedroom, is that correct?  That's why you also hid the children under the bed.

ELSIE BUWA: I was confused as to what was happening because there was shooting going on.

MR LOWIES: But you must have realised that something serious ...(intervention)

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, I think the interpretation, a more accurate interpretation is she said ...(Xhosa), which would be
"I was wondering"
Not that:
"I was confused"
It gives a different meaning.

INTERPRETER: Thank you, Chairperson.

MR LOWIES: Now you were wondering whether you were confused?

CHAIRPERSON: No, no.

ELSIE BUWA: I was wondering.

ADV SIGODI: ... what was happening.

MR LOWIES: Just shows you what could have happened at Babel, Mr Chairman.  I'm sorry, I apologise.
	Did you know at that stage that you were under attack, when you hid the children, or did you just do it as a precaution?

ELSIE BUWA: I did not know what was going on, so I just decided to hide the children because I did not know what was going on.

MR LOWIES: And I take it that you did not switch the light on so that you could be seen by the attackers?

ELSIE BUWA: The lights were off.  It is the people who switched on the lights when they came in.

MR LOWIES: So when they came in, the attackers switched the lights on?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, they are the ones who switched the lights on.

MR LOWIES: Was Zulu one of them - was Zulu the person or was it one of the others?

ELSIE BUWA: He is the one who switched the lights on because he was in the forefront.

MR LOWIES: And he knew you were residing there, is that correct?  He knew you well, on your version.

ELSIE BUWA: He knows me very well, he knows we stay there.

MR LOWIES: And the lights 3340 on all the time during the attack or was it switched off at a stage?

ELSIE BUWA: The lights were never off, they had always been on during the attack.

MR LOWIES: And when they left, was it still on?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, when they left the lights were still on.

MR LOWIES: Who is John Buwa?

ELSIE BUWA: He is my son.

MR LOWIES: Did you see him that night?

ELSIE BUWA: He came with the children that he had been running away with.

MR LOWIES: After the attack?

ELSIE BUWA: That was after these attackers had left he then came.

MR LOWIES: Did you see how the attackers entered into the house?

ELSIE BUWA: They came in through the windows because the windows you see were huge enough and the door would not yield when they tried to break it.

MR LOWIES: Yes, but did you see this actually happening or was it just the deduction that you made as a result of observations after the attack?

ELSIE BUWA: They came in through the windows because I too went out of the house through the same windows.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mrs Buwa, the question is really this; did you actually see them coming in through the window or are you just assuming that that's what happened because you had to go out through the window?

ELSIE BUWA: I am saying the doors would not open, so they must have entered through the windows that they had broken.

MR LAX: Yes, but you didn't actually see it with your own eyes?

ELSIE BUWA: I did not see them.  Where else would you say they entered the house?