Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-26

MRS MTIMKHULU: No Commissioner, you would never trust a policeman at the time.  During that period I was taken by Diani, he took my by car, he said I was wanted at Sanlam.
I tried to find out why did they want me at Sanlam, he said he doesn't know.  When I got there, there were other gentlemen, I cannot tell you who those people were, but they were White Boers.
 They showed me photographs and I could see that it was Siphiwo on those photographs.  I thought that as they called me, I thought they were going to tell me something which was tangible.
 They asked me where do I think Siphiwo could have gone to.  I said that I did not know, I mentioned that the last time I saw him was when he was going to the hospital.  They constantly asked me if I didn't think that he had gone in exile.
 This surprised me.  I explained that I didn't think that Siphiwo could cross the borders and follow the other comrades.  I don't think in his condition he can survive there and I don't think he can be able to work for the organisation.
 They asked me if I didn't think that maybe he can go to another place so that he can get some medical assistance.  I said that I didn't think that Siphiwo can do that.  They asked me what have I done, I stated that I was still looking for him.
 I also tried to contact the SABC so that it can be publicised, they turned my appeal down and stated that I was PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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supposed to have gone to the police first.  So I used to go up and down trying to search for my son.
 Ultimately they stated that they were going to help me to search for my son.  They also said that I should contact them as soon as I can find him, they will do the same if they can find Siphiwo.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is that Nieuwoudt who said so?

MRS MTIMKHULU: I am not quite sure, I am really not quite sure.
 I can say I do not know.

MR NTSEBEZA: I was just going to say to you as they promised to search for your son and inform you,  I was going to say to you, could you please have a pause here so that we can just stretch a bit.
 Order please.   ... to you, what did he say did happen?  How were they separated with each other?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Thank you Commissioner.  Topsy didn't give me a long explanation, the only thing that he said to me was I know where to get him.  And then he left.  I requested that he could please, if he finds him, must come and bring him along, because I would like him to be here at home, because he was very ill.

MR NTSEBEZA: Let us go back and you continue where you had stopped.  As the police had promised to assist you in the search of you son, did they do that or what did they do to show that they were with you?

MRS MTIMKHULU: I thank you sir.  After their promise, the police were unable to fulfil their promise.  The only thing
that they did, they became hostile towards us.  They used to come at my place and would always roam around on my premises and around my house, always questioning me about whether I 
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was communicating with Siphiwo or what was the position, how much did I know about his whereabouts. 
 There was a day when they came when they were in a hurry.  They were lining up, they have lined up, shoulder to shoulder, heavily armed.  They went straight to Siphiwo's room claiming that Siphiwo has come back from exile and they said he is at Soweto.
 This Soweto is this one which is here in Port Elizabeth in Veeplaas.  They said he is a trained terrorist.  He was, he received proper medical care and he is able to walk again.
 That is the day when they made a lot of chaos, they damaged my property and they were looking for this terrorist whom they said they have learnt that he have come, he has returned.
 Even today we had never heard anything from the police.  The only thing that they did then was this continuous harassment.  They would stop their cars across one of the streets and they would lay ambush.  At times they would visit us, especially Nieuwoudt, he would always come and search for my son and make enquiries about my son's whereabouts.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did you hear about the car in which they were travelling?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Commissioner, we learnt a story about the car in which they were travelling.  It was said they disappeared whilst they were travelling in this car.  We heard that Topsy's identity book was found in the car, but I was not informed about what happened to him although it was said it was the identity book which was found in his car.
 That is the only information that we had about Topsy 
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and my son.  When we learnt about this, we just went there and followed the clue.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is there any information that you received from the Commissioner of the Police, about the disappearance of your son?

MRS MTIMKHULU: I'd like you to repeat the question again.

MR NTSEBEZA: At times the authorities and the high ranking officials are referred to as Commissioners, is there anyone of them who ever came to inform you about what happened to your son?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Nobody came to me and even the Station Commander or the Commissioner of the Police, they never came to me.  I don't think they could have come and informed me because I suspect he was also involved in the whole thing.
 You could remember that he was the one against whom Siphiwo has laid a charge.  We know that Siphiwo had already laid charges against him, so he couldn't come and report what happened to my son.
 Siphiwo did his own thing without informing most of the people, he could write and would give extensive information  and give details about everything that happened to him.  He would also state who did what to him.  That is why I didn't think much about what happened at the cells, because I knew that he had all the details.  He scribbled everything about what happened to him.

MR NTSEBEZA: I'd like to find out, did you say anything about the charges which he laid against the Commissioner?  Was it when he was released?  Was it before he disappeared, I do not know whether you can understand my question, but seemingly to me you seemed to say although he was an invalid and before he disappeared, he had already laid a charge
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against the Station Commander or the Commissioner of the Police about what happened to him, especially the poisoning when he was in jail, is that so?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Yes, it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: In other words he disappeared during the period when he was waiting for the court appearance?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Yes, it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: How did you know about this?  Especially about Siphiwo's disappearance, how could you get a clue about his whereabouts, can we get some information on that?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Commissioner, I could state that the little clue that we could get which led us to continue with our search, I can state that if I am not mistaken it was on the 10th or 11th, it was covered in the newspapers.

MR NTSEBEZA: I am not concerned about the dates, I know it is a long time ago.  We don't want to pressurise you, you are not under pressure to remember the dates, we are just interested in the details.  The day is not very important to us, the most important thing is we want to know how did you get the clue about the disappearance of your child which led you to resume the search?  I think we have documents that can help us if we want dates.