Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-12-01

CHAIRPERSON: Now the question from Advocate Swanepoel is, Sibongele herself, where did you shoot her because his instructions are that there was a shot that penetrated the back of her head.  Where would you have shot at her, that is Sibongele herself?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: If I can remember very well, it's closer to the neck.

CHAIRPERSON: In front or?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: There was blood so I couldn't see clearly.

CHAIRPERSON: Was she facing you or not immediately before you shot her, Sibongele?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: At the side.

ADV DE JAGER: When you arrived there they were being raped, is that correct?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes that is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Were they lying on the ground?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes Sibongele was lying on the ground and her sister was in the bathroom.

ADV DE JAGER: How far from Sibongele, this bathroom?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: It's closer, Sibongele was next to the base and then the sister was in the bathroom.

ADV DE JAGER: Now she was lying and you started shooting at the rapists, is that correct?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: No, when I arrived there I took out my gun and then those guys who were raping them stood up and they were left alone then.

ADV DE JAGER: So you didn't shoot at them and missed them and accidently shot her, you deliberately shot at her?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes that is correct because that was the command that they should be killed, not raped.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes and you had the intention to kill them when you fired the shots?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: At first I wanted to shoot the comrades because I knew that they were doing something wrong.  The instruction didn't go like that but then I realised that I only had four bullets so I realised that I was going to finish the bullets before I kill Sibongele and her sister.

ADV DE JAGER: So you didn't shoot at the comrades at all?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes they ran away, the only person who was left was Mdmase and I used all my bullets so I asked Mdmase to finish the job.

CHAIRPERSON: Now then I don't quite understand.  As I remember your evidence you said you shot at your comrades, you missed them and that's how Doris got injured.  I'm going to take the tea break, you can think about it.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nyethe, I asked you to consider that issue that I raised with you before we adjourned.  Are you able to explain?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: (s.u.o.) ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: Please so.

JABU JACOB NYETHE: As I've already told you that the comrades, I was prepared to shoot at them because they were doing something wrong, that is why I decided to shoot.

CHAIRPERSON: No.  Your evidence in chief, you told us well you certainly gave me the impression that you in fact did shoot at your colleagues, missed them, but as a result of those shots, Doris was injured.  That's how I understood your evidence, am I wrong?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes, as I told you before that the firearm I had was loaded with four bullets.

CHAIRPERSON: So you did not shoot at your colleagues at all?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I shot at them but I missed.

CHAIRPERSON: Now - then I don't understand.  How many shots did you aim or was Doris injured with?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: The first shot missed the comrades and I shot at Doris and I shot at Sibongele and the last bullet was directed to Doris and I left Mdmase to finish up.

CHAIRPERSON: That's only three bullets.  Now please explain to us now, did you take aim at your colleagues who were the rapists?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: With four bullets - I want you to understand this - the first bullet is the one that missed the comrade and the second one is the one that ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: What happened to that bullet, did it hit the wall or did it injure somebody?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes it hit the wall.

CHAIRPERSON: Good, the second bullet?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: The second one hit Doris.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were you aiming that at?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I was aiming at Doris because the others had gone at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: And your third bullet?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: It went straight to Sibongele.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were you aiming that bullet at?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I was aiming at Sibongele.

CHAIRPERSON: And your fourth bullet?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I aimed at Doris again.

CHAIRPERSON: So you didn't injure anybody as a result of missing your colleagues?  The injuries that you caused were the result of direct attempts to kill the two people.  Do I understand you correctly?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR SWANEPOEL: (continues) Thank you Mr Chair.
	When you - after you discharged your firearm and all your bullets were spent and you left the premises, as far as you could see was either Doris or Sibongele still alive?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: They were lying down on the floor, I just saw Sibongele moving a little bit, that is why I had to tell Mdmase to finish her off.

MR SWANEPOEL: And he then entered the premises with an AK47 and you didn't see what happened from there, is that correct?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes, I did not see what happened thereafter, I just heard the gunshots but I was on my way out and I did not come back to look, to see what was happening.

MR SWANEPOEL: Did you ever visit or go back to the house of Sibongele afterwards?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: No, I never visited the place again.  I went to Commander Ben.

MR SWANEPOEL: And when you went to Commander Ben, what did you report to him?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I told him about everything what happened there at the place.

MR SWANEPOEL: Did you tell him about the rapes?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes I told him.

MR SWANEPOEL: And as a result of that were people punished?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes all the people who were there were punished.

MR SWANEPOEL: As far as you know did any of the comrades who were with you ever go back to the house of Sibongele and damage it?

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) Mr Swanepoel?

MR SWANEPOEL: Apologies Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: As in what type of damage.

MR SWANEPOEL: Mr Chairperson, my instructions are that the house was structurally damaged and I'm sure whether it was burnt or just vandalised, also the furniture was damaged inside and stolen.

CHAIRPERSON: Stolen?

MR SWANEPOEL: As you please, we aren't sure of course how that happened, Sibongele was dead and Doris was in hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: So we're not sure when it happened or whatever, okay fine.
	When you left, did you leave with a group of people after that, even the rapist, when you left that house where Sibongele was raped?

MR SWANEPOEL: The only person that I left behind was Mdmase because the other comrades had run away at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when you left that house was there any damage that you could see to the building?  Maybe broken windows or broken roof or something like that, or any damage?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Are you referring to the house where Sibongele and the other lady was shot?

CHAIRPERSON: Let's get that clear, as I understand they were taken and raped at a house in Section F, that is not Sibongele's house, that's not the house of Sibongele.  The question is, remember you went to her house first then she ran away, now that house from which she ran away, when you left that house did you leave with all these people, your colleagues?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes, we left altogether.  Now when you left that house that day at that time were there any windows broken or roof broken or any walls affected?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: The house where Sigongele was shot at was vandalised, everything was just broken.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) in Section F?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose house was that?

JABU JACOB NYETHE: I don't know whose house was it because we did not know the people from Unit F because all the people from Unit F had already gone.