Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-11

MS SEROKE: Are you going on to your second son, Putumela's case.

MRS PHASIWE: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Well, after you are finished with Putemela's case we will ask you questions about both your sons.

MRS PHASIWE: In 1993 I was working in town and I would sleep over.  Putemela went to Jallie's house, his relative.  When he got there Jallie was on leave.  He asked Jallie's live-in girlfriend to go to 13 15 in the same area to look at the shack because he had some business there.  When she asked him to do this, to stay over there for three days, I was not there.
 He was called at night.  He was called by a Comrade, 
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Mangnane.  His surname is Jikie.  His first name is Mangnane.  He said Putumela, somebody is calling you outside.  Putumela was sleeping at the time and when he got up it was about half past nine.  When he went to the front yard he was beaten up.  He ran away.  His friends saw him.  When they saw him they said they had been coming from a night vigil.  They went to Nomzimo to tell him that the male Comrades were beating Putumela up.  Nomzimo called a Casper.  When the police came together with the two children who reported the case they found Putumela lying down.  He could speak at the time.  They asked for his details.  He told them who he was.  He said he remembered two people that had been beating him up.  He said it was Mangnane and Dolo.  He could not remember the rest.  They asked where they stayed.  Dolo at S78 and Mangnane was staying at somebody elses house.  They were not found where they stayed.  
 They found a Shangahn man.  I do not know the name.  They tool Putumela to hospital in Sybrand.  He got there at about half past nine.  Our relatives were informed that Putumela was at hospital.  I had not come back from work.  I was sleeping over at my workplace.  I have forgotten which street my employer stayed in, but that is where I stayed over.  
 These children then went to the police station to give a statement saying that Putumela had passed away in hospital.  When they had given a statement to the police that he had passed away in hospital, they went to Nomzimo informing her that Putumela had passed away.  As the mother, I was not there.  One of the children went to inform my employers that they do not know what happened to Putumela.  He has been missing for a few days.  They said that he had 
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been taken by the ANC men.  Apparently, they had been taken by a Casper.  
 These children informed my employers so that I could go home.  I went home.  I asked Dodo what happened with Putumela.  Dodo then told me that the Comrades from Sonderwater and he has been missing since.  Dodo said that Putumela said he would go to Sonderwater because he was not guilty of anything.  
 I thought, perhaps, I should come to the hospital at Rhatong, because I had found his brother there.  I asked the nurses there.  I went to ICU.  They said that there is no such a person, but maybe I should go and look.  I did not find him there.  I went back to the township.  I thought I would go to mortuaries and police stations because I did not where I would go.

MS SEROKE: Excuse me, Mam, I do not want to disturb you.  Perhaps we could help you remember by asking you questions.  We are going to try to help you by asking you questions because we have heard your story.  We will ask about Pumsele first.  Was Pumsele at school when this happened?

MRS PHASIWE: He was not at school because he had epileptic fits, I wrote a letter to the principal, I was requesting the Pumsele should take a years leave.

MS SEROKE: Was Pumsele a member of any political organisation?

MRS PHASIWE: He was an ANC member.

MS SEROKE: According to your statement you say that he was the Poswa guy and they had gotten shot.  Why do you think they were shot because they were just walking?  Was there something happening at the time in the township?

MRS PHASIWE: Apparently, they had been sent to buy
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painkillers and in the shack they were, apparently, they were put, some beef had been stolen

MS SEROKE: Were they suspected for having stolen the beef with Paul Poswa?

MRS PHASIWE: Well, probably, I was not there.

MS SEROKE: So, when you would go to hospital, Paul Poswa would inform you what happened and after you had seen your son improve, he would also tell you?

MRS PHASIWE: When I asked my son he said that, mom, I have been killed for something I know nothing of.  He was just shot by the police whilst walking with Paul Poswa.  After he had been shot, apparently, he said my blood has been shed, innocent blood has been shed.  He showed me, even when he was bleeding that he bled for nothing.
 When I got to ICU the nurses would ask what the children had done and a report was given.  The report that we got from the nurses, a report they got the police was that these children were found stealing cows.  These children said nothing about having stolen cows.

MS SEROKE: So, how does Oupa get involved in the whole case?  Was he walking with them or what happened?

MRS PHASIWE: Apparently they were put together into the van, the three of them.

MS SEROKE: Okay, let us carry on to Putumela's case.  According to your statement you say that Putumela was injured by people who suspected that he was a Comtsotsi.  What is a Comtsotsi?  What is it all about?

MRS PHASIWE: I do not know.  I would just hear people saying the children are Comtsotsis.

MS SEROKE: You do not know what it means?  We know what Comrade means, but if you take Comrade and Tsotsi and put
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them together, what does it mean?

MRS PHASIWE: I do not know.

MS SEROKE: You say that these children were Comrades from Sonderwater?

MRS PHASIWE: Yes, they were and they were men.

MS SEROKE: Do you know what else they were called, because there were Mazimzims and Gadaffis, there were Shangas.

MRS PHASIWE: They were the Shanga men.  They were referred to as the Shangas and the Shangas would say that the children were Comtsotis.

MS SEROKE: So, each child was killed by the Shangas?

MRS PHASIWE: Yes, he was.

MS SEROKE: According to your statement you say that you have been effected badly by these incidents.  You cannot even work.  What do you live on?

MRS PHASIWE: I get given food by people who feel for me.  I also have my own vegetation.

MS SEROKE: I am going to hand over to my colleagues, if they have any further questions.  Thank you Mam.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Phasiwe, I just want to ask, I just want to be clear on Pumsele's death.  He was shot in August of 1991.  Is that right?

MRS PHASIWE: Pumsele was shot on the 24th of September 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: And he died in July of the next year?

MRS PHASIWE: Yes Sir, on the 15th of July the following year.

CHAIRPERSON: And all that time was he in hospital?

MRS PHASIWE: He was in hospital for eight months.  On the ninth month he passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he pass away at home or in the hospital?
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MRS PHASIWE: At the hospital, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I have no other questions.  Joyce.  Mrs Phasiwe thank you very much for coming.  You have lost two sons in a very short time and that is very painful.  We have noted your request to the Truth Commission to find out who was responsible for the death of your sons and we will be communicating with you in due course, where it is possible to find this out.  Thank you very much.  Is there anything you want to say in closing?

MRS PHASIWE: I just want to thank the Truth Commission because I knew I would never heal.  At least now I have hope.  If I could please get tombstones for my sons to commemorate them.