Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

UNKNOWN: Thank you. General Secretary, you mentioned the problems that   besiege our communities like socio-political problems, religious problems. My   question to you is how in your church are you addressing those situations?
REV.

S MOLISIWA: Madame Chair, we have the associations of these churches from   ...[inaudible] mountains down to the coast, South and East, from Cape Town to   Kwapuma. We network with them all. The problems we are from time to time faced   with is the problem as the Archbishop had put it that the culture of fund-raising   and the culture of giving seems to be not very real so that we can address these   problems. But in fact I understand that one. I actually become very pained to   see that we participate in some other structures put in place by the government,   but some departments of governments and the ministers. Where we participate   in involvement, but when situations or resources are made available, we have   been made to experience a very bitter situation because we are unable to address   these problems that we are faced with because the problem is we are unable to   raise fast enough good resources, but where we should get resources, we experience   bitter, bitter, bitter, treatment when it comes to having such help. We get   problems.

UNKNOWN: My next question and indeed my last. You have come up with a   phrase that is very close to my heart African Renaissance. I have heard that   you have had a problem of funding. Could you just briefly share what your own,   what if you had that funding, what does African Renaissance mean to you. What   would you do to promote this? Barring the fact that you don't have funds to   do it, but what are your thoughts?
REV.

S MOLISIWA: Madame Chair, AIC constitutes in excess of 15 million adherents.   15 to 20 million adherents. That is AIC in South Africa and there is - we vary   with the number of the followings that individual churches have, but those that   are able to club as our council in small groups, we are able to, without correct   statistics because those resources of streamlining our statistics, we do not   have. We would want to see a project coming up, a project of a centre where   we would be able to begin a theological college that would enable to bring awareness   to our people and from that particular point, we would be able to filter into   these other real, real, domestic problems of poverty, homelessness, even jobs   from that particular centre. We would want to see a centre coming up. Thank   you.

ARCHBISHOP T W NTONGANA: I wanted to add on to what the General Secretary of   CAIC has just said about a centre. We attempted to get a centre some years back   at Orange Farm. Then Orange Farm was still - people were not quite sure if it   will be a place where people will live and so we missed an opportunity because   of my late brother (of course to accuse somebody who is silent in his grave   is very wrong, I'm not happy when I have to do it) but I am pressurised to do   it because we were there and money was there to make a deposit on the plot there.   We could have even ploughed on that plot, there was a house and electricity   and water, but one other Bishop turned it down and said no, this is a farm,   this is out. You know there were very few Cuckoos there then, but now when you   go to Orange Farm, you see that we missed an opportunity of having established   a centre there that would cater for the African Independent Institute what have   you, and we do have CAIC which was the brainchild of both of us and we begged   with TEEC that they give us ...[inaudible] that we start this one for our people,   because they haven't got a standard of education so as for them to take theological   studies with the TEEC, most of our people in the SACC know about this. As a   result the Khanya Institute was born, but it has experienced problems because   some other Bishops who want to fill their stomachsof course I don't want   to get into that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes it would be a very good thing not to get into that because   they don't have a chance of answering back.
REV.

REV XUNDU: Can I ask a question? Our aim here is to show what has been done   by the churches in the liberation, or what is it that they have omitted in their   actions. It might happen as a church that you failed to go on and fight apartheid.   Perhaps that opportunity is for you to check and see your mistakes. Maybe your   people are not supposed to be councillors so that you can be free. Secondly,   the African Americans worked very hard in their churches to develop the spirit   of Ubuntu, self determination. What activities, what have you done to show that   you are actually people who are concerned with development?

ARCHBISHOP T W NTONGANA: I thought I had covered that part because I said [intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Let me help you there. You are telling the truth. Just switch   your mike off. He has already answered that question. Is there any other question?   We thank you very much friends. I remember that you were wish us in Cape Town   where the church leaders were marching to parliament. I was actually giving   Mr Xundu an answer to that. All right Joyce?

UNKNOWN: Archbishop Ntongana it looks like the women are in the forefront   in your church because they also pray for the people and also heal the people.   Why did you leave the women behind?

ARCHBISHOP T W NTONGANA: Chairperson, I didn't want to come here because I   knew that the women here are going to have that question. My wife is the President   of the women's' organisation. We wouldn't be here, both of us, because you know   of our situation, if we can be here both of us. We are not going to expose ourselves   in front of the people. You as a person, you know our situation. Why are we   here? There are a lot of women. If you also want to be ordained, you can come   to us, you can be a Bishop, you can be an Archbishop, we don't have a problem   with that. Because the women can pray for the people, they can have their own   congregations. It looks like you want to take away our church members from us.

CHAIRPERSON: In conclusion I was saying thank you. You may stand down. As we   were talking about women, we are going to ask Mrs Makhene to come and talk to   us and tell us about the Women's organisations. 
Are you both going to testify? Will you please then stand so that Bongani Finca   should administer the oath?
ADMINISTERS OATH.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you both very warmly. Over to you Cathy.