Special Hearings — Trojan Horse Hearings — 1997-06-02

MR I RYKLIEF: That day we were all gathered in the house. We were watching T.V. and Ismail Abrahams insisted that he wanted to go home and my aunt said no, he had to stay inside, but he insisted he wanted to go out. Because we were friends we all joined him. When we left the house, we had to run back because they were shooting at us. I and Shaun and other people, we ran and climbed under a dressing table to hide, and Shaun was lying on the bed. Shaun told me the struggle had to go on. And then he relieved himself and died.
 One policeman looked through the window and then he came to the door and asked us to open the door. We did not want to do that and he kicked open the door. He came straight to me and he pulled me towards him. My mother said he had to leave me alone. I was lying there, I was still small and I was very frightened. My brother came there and they said they must take my brother and leave me alone, and they took my brother and they pulled Shaun, lying at the end of the bed, they pulled him up and then they left him lying on the ground.
 They pulled out the phone, the cord of the phone, so we could not telephone anybody, because they did not want photographers or anybody to come to that house. People from the ambulance arrived there, they put him on a stretcher and took him out. They did not want my mother and the other people to look into the van where he was lying. They took him away and they took me to the hospital where there were a lot of policemen and a lot of questions were asked and we were guarded for the night. 
 The next morning I was taken to a private doctor and only then I returned back to the home where I had been shot. That was where I was born and where I lived everyday. A lot of people gathered there that evening and they had to take us to various houses because they were looking for us. I stayed at other relatives, who were nearby. I stayed there during the night. I had a lot of pain and they had to rush me to a private doctor again. They found more bullets lodged in my body. And this private doctor cared for me.
 All of us then were staying at different houses and for seven years we went to the court, but nothing happened. We went to court, we told what happened and I pointed out the person who had kicked open the door but they were acquitted. Up until this day they are free men. I will never forget what happened.

WENDY ORR: How old were you at that stage?

MR I RYKLIEF: I was twelve years old.

WENDY ORR: It must have been a terrible thing for a child of twelve years old to see all this. So you yourself were also injured?
I have no further questions, but I would like to hand over to my other colleagues.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Fine. Thanks Wendy. Anyone of the panel? Dr Ramashala?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Ismail, I want to pursue this line of stone throwing a little bit. Could you both tell me who was the first to get out of the house?

MR I RYKLIEF: From us? Are you talking about before the shooting?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Well I'm trying to place Jonathan and Shaun.

MR I RYKLIEF: Jonathan wasn't in the house with us. Shaun Magmoed was in the house with us.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay, and when you went out of the house the first time, Shaun was with you?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And immediately after you left the house you had to run back again?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And that's when you heard the shooting?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Did you see whether the shooting was directed at the house?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes, because we were walking towards the road.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: So you really were not part of the stone throwing group?

MR I RYKLIEF: No.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay. Thank you.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Mapule. Glenda?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I just wanted to hear if you wanted to answer Dr Ramashala's question about going out of the house?

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes Shafwaan.

MR S RYKLIEF: Like Ismail has said, we were not part of those people throwing stones. While we were leaving the house, they were shooting and we had to run back into the house. Therefore I can say that they were aiming at us. The majority of the policemen on the truck aimed their weapons in the direction of the house. That is all I can say. And the door would not have been opened if Ismail did not insist to go home, because he wanted to go home and that's why we had to open the door. That is all I want to say.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Shafwaan, at any point with Shaun Magmoed. Did he ever throw stones at any point while you were with him?

MR S RYKLIEF: No.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Not even when the truck came down the road for the first time?

MR S RYKLIEF: No, we were all in the house.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: .... for the first time when you saw it coming down, for the first time. And incidentally the first time was, it was moving in the direction of Lansdowne Road.

MR S RYKLIEF: No, towards Klipfontein Road.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So the first time it went in the direction of Klipfontein Road and the second time it was going in the direction of Lansdowne Road. Okay, so it had obviously turned somewhere near Klipfontein Road and come down again. When it went down the first time, Shaun was not throwing stones at all.

MR S RYKLIEF: No.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And when it came down the second time he was not throwing stones?

MR S RYKLIEF: No.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay, and what was Shaun wearing?

MR S RYKLIEF: I can't remember very well but I think he was wearing a yellow or a cream shirt. I can't remember very well.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Was a little shirt?

MR S RYKLIEF: Yes it was a shirt.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: ... and it could either have been green or yellow you say?

MR S RYKLIEF: No it was yellow or cream.

WENDY ORR: I want to ask one further question, I don't know whether you have an answer - Can you think of any reason why the police targeted that house? Why? Why did they do that? what was their reason?

MR S RYKLIEF: Perhaps I'm not answering the question but if tyres were burnt in Thornton Road, it all happened in front of our house. The house, there was a granny flat, and we lived in that granny flat. This wall was still standing round this house and it was very nice for the students just to sit on this wall or behind that little wall. Most of the students were on the side of the house. Now why they aimed at that house was most of the children ran in the direction of our house. There was a passage there and most of them ran down that passage, in the direction of my house.
 But all the people could not be allowed into the house but most of them took refuge in our house. That is why they were aiming at our house.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Shafwaan and Ismail, what are you doing now?

MR I RYKLIEF: I'm unemployed.

MR S RYKLIEF: At the moment I am a builder, a bricklayer on the building sites. I'm married and I have one child of six years old.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: What has been the effect of this incident on both of you?