Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

MR MALAN: I have no further questions thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Motata.

MR MOTATA: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Lekabe, within the Youth League did you have a member by the name of Nomfundo?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not remember.

MR MOTATA: Did you have ladies in the Youth League, that is the Executive?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes they were present.

MR MOTATA: Were there many within the Executive?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: There were not many.

MR MOTATA: I understand you to say that Ali Zulu was killed and you know the persons who killed him.  Ali Zulu - am I right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: You are right.

MR MOTATA: And because you were not in good terms with the Stability Unit or the Police you are not desirous that the killers of Ali Zulu should be apprehended and should be answerable for such killing?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I told you already that I based my trust on my leaders to resolve this issue.

MR MOTATA: How do you hope your leaders would have resolved the killing of Ali Zulu because this is a criminal act?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We were trying, as the members of the Civic, to curb the conflicts between the community and I believe that members of the Katlehong ANC branch would have had a contribution.  They would call members of the SDU and warn them because we had reported to them on several occasions that these people were troubling us.

MR MOTATA: Let's just return to your capturing and you being threatened by Mr Oscar Motlokwa that he wanted to shoot you.  You said there is a Mr Mokoena who prevented him.  Who is this Mr Mokoena who prevented Mr Motlokwa, Oscar Motlokwa from shooting you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: He was one member of Block F.  At that time Block F was reporting to the section committee of the Civic.   Mololeke, as I mentioned earlier on, was divided into smaller sections.  Mokoena himself was one of the people who was wanted by the SDU.

MR MOTATA: Now when this Mr Mokoena prevented Mr Oscar Motlokwa from shooting you, where were you, were you at Block F where the corpse of Bulelwa was lying?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MOTATA: Would I be reading the situation right if I say or that when Oscar tried to kill you by shooting and he was prevented from so doing, your life was safe there because it was no longer endangered because the community was aware of that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The community was aware of what sir, can you explain?

MR MOTATA: Let me do it this way - when you got to Block F were there people there where the body of Bulelwa was lying?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes just a few.

MR MOTATA: Ten, fifteen, twenty, what number could you give to that - it's an estimation so don't think I want a precise number?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: About fifteen if not more, I did not count them.

MR MOTATA: And within these fifteen people was Mr Mokoena one of them?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes that's correct.

MR MOTATA: What I'm saying to you, was your life not safe now because you are with the community and one member has already been stopped from attempting to shoot you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not understand what you mean sir if you say I was now safe?

MR MOTATA: What I'm saying is that your life wasn't threatened any more because Oscar who attempted to shoot you was prevented from doing so?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't know whether will I be making a mistake, if a person tries to shoot you and he is stopped, won't he try to do it some other time?

MR MOTATA: I mean for the day, now I was saying for that day at least you were safe.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was not that safe because he could have been shot at also.

MR MOTATA: Could you tell us when Buthelezi, Mr Buthelezi came to report to you that Ms Bulelwa has been killed.  Roughly what time of the day was it when he came to you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was five or ten minutes after eight o'clock at night.

MR MOTATA: And what time did you people with the community, that is the ANC Youth League and the community, attack Blanko?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was about three o'clock in the morning.

MR MOTATA: Where did you or when did you now round up the community to make them aware about the death of Bulelwa for instance?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They responded to the whistle, sir.  I think many of them came because of Mr Buthelezi's cry.  Prior to his crying there was a whistle.

MR MOTATA: We are made to understand that, that when there is trouble, there would be the whistle and the applicants are saying that they responded to a whistle and went where the trouble was in other words where Bulelwa's body was.  Would that happen in that fashion?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is not correct.

MR MOTATA: Was there any whistle blown to alert the community that something has happened on this particular day, that is the night of the 6th December 1993?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes a whistle blew - I think I explained that people gathered after Mr Buthelezi came to report to me that Bulelwa has died.

MR MOTATA: Where did the people gather?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They gathered at Block C, there was a Sparza shop in the township where they gathered.  They came to me because of Mr Buthelezi's cry.

MR MOTATA: Are you suggesting that when Mr Buthelezi came to you he blew or alerted the community whilst being at your place?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: A whistle blew then Mr Buthelezi came crying to me.  Now I think the blowing of the whistle and his cry, the two have a certain meaning.

MR MOTATA: No, no, I want to say the whistle which was blown, was it blown at Block F or was it blown at Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not remember well where the whistle blew, but it was blown.

MR MOTATA: Let's take it that when the community gathered at the place you're saying - Block C - you obviously advised them that the whistle is blown because Bulelwa has been killed?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I think they gathered because of Mr Buthelezi's cry and he explained Bulelwa's death.

MR MOTATA: And you did not lead the community to go and verify at Block F about the certainty of Bulelwa's death?  You accepted that she was dead and you would act with the community?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: On Friday I explained that I tried to go alone with Mr Buthelezi and members of the community said to me listen, you know you've not been on good terms with these people, now they're going to get hold of you and then they are going to assault you.  I think I explained that on Friday.

MR MOTATA: Did you then without you saying to the community go and see at Block F where the body of Bulelwa is lying?  You did not do that did you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I did not do that sir.

MR MOTATA: Did Buthelezi at your place stay until the community gathered?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: He stayed a few minutes while the community was gathering.

MR MOTATA: Did he explain to the community that I'm here because Bulelwa has been killed?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I am explaining the community gathered because of his cry.  They heard from him when I tried to calm him down - I said please come down so that we can understand each other.

MR MOTATA: How much time did Mr Buthelezi spend on your place when he was hysterical?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I would not be sure because I did not have my watch.  It might have been twenty or less than twenty minutes.

MR MOTATA: When the community gathered could you give us an indication how many people or how many members of the community gathered at Block C where you were present and Mr Buthelezi telling them that Bulelwa has died?