Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

MR SMIT: It was pertinently put to him, they said: "We're looking for a volunteer who will draw a trailer for us".  Jan said that he would be prepared as long as he could use his own vehicle.

MR BRACHER: Is that your evidence?  All you heard was a volunteer to tow a trailer and Jan de Wet said: "I will tow a trailer"?  Is that your entire of this?

MR SMIT: That's correct because it was about the trailer, and previously we were talking about the "oubaas".

MR BRACHER: The Commission will decide that.  Now go to the Jan Smuts bomb, tell me exactly what you heard, who said what to whom?

MR SMIT: No, I cannot testify regarding who said what.

MR BRACHER: Well you did already give evidence this morning, so tell me what your evidence is because the trailer has got into nothing, now what about the Jan Smuts bomb?

MR SMIT: It was just said by Nico Prinsloo that we should plant a bomb at Jan Smuts airport in order to elicit international reaction and also to stop international investment.

MR BRACHER: Prinsloo said that?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR BRACHER: When did he say that?

MR SMIT: He said that in the afternoon just before we went home, during the meeting when we were talking about the Jan Smuts incident.

MR BRACHER: The closed meeting, the open meeting or neither?

MR SMIT: It was during a "geslote vergadering" meeting at the shooting range just outside Rustenberg.

MR BRACHER: Now who was at that meeting?

MR SMIT: It was me, Abie Fourie, Nico Prinsloo, Leon van der Merwe and du Plessis.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Smit, before we proceed or adjourn, were you involved in any decision to plant a bomb, wherever?

MR SMIT: No, I did not tell anybody to plant a bomb because the way I understand it ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: As I understood your evidence you were a trainer amongst the Ystergarde, what did you teach them?

MR SMIT: Well explosives was not part of my field, I dealt with self-defence and weapons.  I also provided sharp-shooter training but in no way explosives.

CHAIRPERSON: So you weren't an expert in the field of pipe bombs, so what were you doing there, why were you called in?

MR SMIT: In the same way that everybody else was called up I was called up as well.

CHAIRPERSON: But the way that I understand it, you had absolutely nothing to do with this?

MR SMIT: Well many did nothing in many people's eyes but I was part of the group.

CHAIRPERSON: So you say you did nothing, you know nothing?

MR SMIT: No, that is not what I'm saying.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand your evidence you can't say who made decisions, you can only say that Mr Prinsloo gave the orders from time to time.  You cannot say how people were chosen to plan certain bombs, am I right so far?

MR SMIT: As I have testified, volunteers were requested.

CHAIRPERSON: But you don't know who asked?

MR SMIT: Nico Prinsloo did the asking but I don't know who volunteered.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you say that you were part of a meeting during which the strategy was planned?

MR SMIT: That's correct.  And what I mean by "strategy" is what we were going to do, were we going to plant pipe bombs, trailer bombs, that kind of thing ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all?

MR SMIT: Under strategy yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But not where it would be planted and who would plant it?

MR SMIT: Not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: That was not part of strategy?

MR SMIT: Well where it would be planted would be decided on a level much higher than mine.

CHAIRPERSON: So that meeting couldn't really have taken very long if the only decision to be made was whether or not you'd be planting pipe bombs or trailer bombs.

MR SMIT: No, not long at all, we were speaking of a couple of minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we take the adjournment now.
	There's just one question.

UNKNOWN: Mr Smit, just as a follow-up question to that, what was your contribution in that strategic planning forum, what contribution did you make to the discussion?

MR SMIT: As I have already testified, the strategy which I have mentioned had to do with equipment.  That is what I mean by "strategy", the type of equipment that we would use.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

JOHANNES SMIT: (s.u.o.)

MR MALAN: Could you please just inform us a little more with regard to your answer, what exactly do you mean by strategy, what exact strategy was discussed during the meetings?

MR SMIT: All that I can say is that it was the strategy that was used.  We had the minimum at our disposal.  Our strategy would be, right, we have to plant a bomb, what type of bomb, how we're going to plant it.

MR MALAN: But if I understand your evidence correctly, when you had that so-called strategy meeting, the pipe were already there.

MR SMIT: No.  The first meeting was held and during that meeting we decided what we would do and we would plan that.  During that meeting we were told that bombs were already being manufactured at Koesterfontein.  We  left meeting, went into the second meeting and that is where Koper Myburgh and Cliff Barnard and Koekemoer were told: "There are the pipe bomb".

MR MALAN: Was the second meeting the open meeting?

MR SMIT: Yes, that's correct.

MR MALAN: So they walked in between the closed and the open meeting?

MR SMIT: Yes, basically.

MR MALAN: Were the pipe bombs not demonstrated during the first closed meeting?

MR SMIT: No, only during the second open meeting.  That is all that I know of.  In the closed meeting we spoke about the trailer bomb but a pipe was never in that room during that meeting.  When we went to the second meeting the pipe bombs were retrieved from the car.

MR MALAN: When it was said that a trailer bomb was being manufactured at Koesterfontein, this was said to you during the closed meeting.

MR SMIT: Yes.

MR MALAN: But then the strategy would have been determined a long time ago?

MR SMIT: What I understand under strategy is what took place during that meeting.

MR MALAN: But I still want to know what the strategy is, because you've been told that a bomb is being built in a trailer, it's Mr Terreblanche's trailer, we must go and tell the old boy, and you've been told that pipe bombs are being manufactured, these pipe bombs are supposed to be thrown but you're not informed where they should be thrown.  This is while you are busy with radio communication and then you hear people being asked to volunteer for these activities, what kind of strategies are you talking about?

MR SMIT: I can only once again reiterate what I was involved with and that was: "What are we going to use and how are we going to use it".

MR MALAN: But you already knew that you had it, that it was being manufactured, the decision had been taken.  You were told that a trailer bomb was being manufactured. It wasn't as if you sat there not knowing what you had, you were told what was being done, you were confronted with a strategy, according to your evidence.  You were not part of the planning?

MR SMIT: Well then strategy planning is probably the incorrect term.

ADV BOSMAN: What do you understand under the word strategy?

MR SMIT: Planning.

MR MALAN: May I ask you two questions?  The video which was displayed to us, where did you find this?  Did you make this available to Mrs van der Walt?  Did you have any knowledge of this video?

MR SMIT: No.

MR MALAN: And in your background, what is your career or your profession, were you in the police?

MR SMIT: No, I was national member of the army.

MR MALAN: What else have you done?

MR SMIT: I work for a private company.

MR MALAN: In which field?

MR SMIT: Finances.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bracher, I was hoping to take tonight's plan home but I've changed my flight to half past twelve tomorrow.

MR BRACHER: Mr Smit, you told us that at the meeting where it was announced that there was a bomb being built at Koesterfontein, Mr Abie Fourie and Mr du Plessis were present, is that correct?

MR SMIT: That is correct.