Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MR MALAN: Thank you, Mr Roos.  Yes, I do have a few questions.  Do you know that the political parties came forward and made submissions to the Truth Commission in Cape Town. Did you know about that?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Mr Chairperson, because I am from so far we do not have a television and I don't know about that.

MR MALAN: Can I just tell you that here is a copy of the evidence that they have submitted and they do speak about the landmine incidents although they do not specify, but they do specifically say that where - that they are sorry about loss of life, they argue that it was part of the struggle, and I heard from your evidence that it was not a farm on the border, but I would like to say to you that they have accepted responsibility for that policy. It still does not answer your questions and it does not say to you who is responsible for this. But I am sure that it is something that we can follow up with the political parties during our next round of questions. So you can rest assured that we will bring this specific matter to their attention. We do
not know what information will be forthcoming. We do not know if we will be able to expose everything.  
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
10 ROOS
 This brings me to the second point on which I would like to ask you a question.  As far as the question of amnesty goes, you know that part of the Truth Commission's work deals with amnesty, where people who committed such offences and monstrous or gruesome offences should be granted amnesty in the event of it having been politically motivated and that if it meets certain requirements set out in the law, on condition that this information should be made available. I know that is your great desire. I know that you requested that this be brought before a court of law. I would like you to just give us your perceptions as far as the amnesty process vis-a-vis a court of law and this as far as the Truth Commission's work as having to expose and reconcile. Can you just tell us your views on that.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Mr Chairperson, I feel that because we do not know who did these things, and because it never reached a point where we know who was responsible for it, we would just like to know what happened and what is going to happen to these people. I assume now that there will be amnesty and clemency and we would just like peace of mind. We would like to know who was responsible. Why was this done?  And that is why I referred to a court case, that in case it is not brought forward in time that it will go to the extent of going before a court of law. So that we can know. Obviously  if that is the process, that there is an opportunity to apply for amnesty and that should people not do that in the time set down, then it will go to a court of law. But do I understand you correctly, when you say that your main interest is just to get a complete a picture as possible?

MR MALAN: Would you still like to take revenge and things like that?  Do you still have any such motives?
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
11 ROOS

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Mr Chairperson, I am very proud to say that I praise a living God and he gave me the motivation the past 10 years and up until yesterday my wife said to me, you are going there tomorrow and you will never acknowledge that you are going to talk.  But I have come to talk on behalf of my children and myself and my family and the community.  That is why I have to come to talk about this and say what happened and that is why.

MR MALAN: Mr Roos, could I just ask you a few other questions. You were working as a farm manager, was it at the Kareenouw citrus estate?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: No, it was Mr BA Walters' farm, it was a private farm.

MR MALAN: Just to look at the circumstances described by the ANC in the framework of their policy in the onslaught. They told us that they feel justified because they believed that the whole farmers' network in the border areas, and that these included military activities. Could you just tell us specifically about this farm, could you tell us if Mr Walters was involved in such activities?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: I did my military duty for 12 months.  Thereafter I was never called up to army camps again and the post which I held as a farm manager with Mr Walters, he was an old Rhodesian, born in South Africa, although he had gone to Rhodesia and he came back to South Africa to establish himself at Kareenouw. As far as myself, my wife and Mr Walters or any of his children go, none had a specific title or any key position in any party or any organisation, or they belonged to it, which would then have been a threat to
such an onslaught.

MR MALAN: In your statement you talk about the policeman
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
12 ROOS
who was doing duty at the gate.  Was he a member of the South African Police or was he a private security guard?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: It was a private security guard from Kareenouw Citrus Corporation.

MR MALAN: But in your statement your statement you referred to him as a policeman.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: To a certain extent he controlled who could go to the living quarters and who not.

MR MALAN: You also said that after the explosion there was a smell in the air that smelt of cordite. What knowledge do you have of cordite?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Mr Chairperson, I am a hunter. I know how gunpowder smells and I have loaded bullets and myself and I know the terrible stench that remains in the air thereafter.  This was approximately two and a half metre and it was a few metres deep and it made me realise immediately that this was a land-mine and the terrible force that it had, is what made me know that it was a land-mind. This was an explosive device which was used here and this smell was definitely cordite.

MR MALAN: You also said that you appreciate the change that there is a new regime and that the conflict didn't continue. You also said that due to the peace and suffering that you have had experienced, that you have come to peace with that, you have made peace with the whole thing. But when in reference to the conflict that we have to investigate, can you just tell us how you understand it today?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: It is very difficult.  Where I am currently residing, is also under a government which loves us very
much, the government of another colour.  We treat each other very well. There is absolutely no conflict and there is no 
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
13 ROOS
aggression.

MR MALAN: I don't think you understand, maybe I should formulate the question in a different manner.  I am talking about the time that this land-mine exploded here in South Africa at the time.  Let me lead the question. Did you experience it then as a situation of war?  With hindsight, when you look back today, do you see it as having been a situation of war or how do you perceive what happened at the time? I don't want a long answer, I just want as brief an answer as possible.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: I do not see it as a war because we were not at a border. The circumstances on the farm were such that we got along very well, we worked well with each other. There was no ill feeling amongst each other and in the country in general, yes, at the border.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Roos. I don't have a question, except that I just wanted to affirm you resilience. You have shared with us a very traumatic story and you have raised questions about children and I just want to say this is one of the things that within the Commission we are struggling with, as to what to do for those young people who saw a lot.  So I am just grateful for your faith that you have shared with us, which has made you to remain resilient.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Thank you.