Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-09

MRS MASUPA: Hendrik went to his grandfather, he did not belong to any organisation, he did not belong to any gangster,  he was a scholar at the time when he was taken from me to his grandfather.

MR BLACK: And your daughter, Christina, there is evidence that she was a scholar and an active member in the comrades at school?

MRS MASUPA: Yes, that is true.  She was attending school and she was a comrade as well.

MR BLACK: What standard was she in then?

MRS MASUPA: Christina was in standard 9.

MR BLACK: Now Mrs Masupa, may I ask how old are you now at the present?

MRS MASUPA: In June I will be completing 58 years, I will be 58 years old.

MR BLACK: Have you been able to work since that incident or the fire?

MRS MASUPA: I have never been able to work thereafter.

MR BLACK: Why?

MRS MASUPA: I was not able because I got injured and I could not stand for long periods of time and it is the type of work that I was doing at Hendler & Hendler and I had to
stop working because of the injuries that I sustained in the fire.

MR BLACK: Could you just briefly tell the court what injuries you sustained and what suffering you've had?

MRS MASUPA: My face was burnt, this is not my colour.  My face is a different colour.  My legs were injured.  I always have to wear stockings whenever I go out of the house because my feet as well as my legs were injured.  My right hand side as well as my right foot and leg have been severely  injured and I can't stand for periods of time, I can't even do my own washing.

MR BLACK: And have you had to undergo several operations?

MRS MASUPA: Yes, I had to undergo some skin graft.

MR BLACK: Now, Mrs Masupa, yesterday you heard the evidence of Mr Ndlovu.  Is that correct?

MRS MASUPA: Mr Ndlovu's testimony gave me so much pain because he is asking for amnesty, but he is telling blatant lies before this Committee.  How can he even start to ask for amnesty when he can't even begin to speak the truth?

MR BLACK: You also heard Mr Ndlovu ask your forgiveness - from the family.  How do you feel about that?

MRS MASUPA: I would have forgiven Ndlovu if, when he rendered his testimony he told the truth, but he gave such a fabricated version of the whole event, so much so that he dampened my spirit, he even dampened the spirit of forgiveness and reconciliation that I thought I may probably have.  If he could wake up the four people who could forgive
him, but what annoys me even more is the lies that he continued to tell the Committee.  I loved my family and I loved my children.

MR BLACK: Thank you Mrs Masupa.  I've got no further
questions.

MR BLACK: .

MR CURRIN: Mrs Masupa, did Hendrik ever sleep at home, on one, maybe on the odd occasion or did he never, ever sleep at home?

MRS MASUPA: Hendrik was no longer sleeping at my place because we had an agreement with his grandfather.  Because of the cafe, they used to close very late and we realised that he would come back knocking very late at night, that is the reason why he wasn't sleeping at my place.

MR CURRIN: I have no further questions for clarification.  I would reserve cross-examination for later if necessary, thank you.

JUDGE WILSON: The members of the Committee have no questions to ask.  I would however on behalf of the members of the Committee and I am sure on behalf of everyone else present here today, express our profound sympathy to Mrs Masupa for her tragic loss and also our admiration for the courage that she displayed under very trying and difficult circumstances.  I would like her to leave here knowing that she will be in our thoughts and in our prayers.  Thank you Mrs Masupa.  You may go.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR BLACK: Thank you Mr Chairman, I will call the next witness.  The next witness is Mr Hendrik Masupa.  Mr Masupa will also testify in Sotho.

HENDRIK MASUPA: (sworn states)

MR BLACK: Mr Masupa, you are the brother to Mr Godfrey Masupa who has testified and the son of Mrs Masupa who has just given her evidence, is that correct?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: During 1987, July 1987 you were at school and you were in standard 8? ... (tape ends) and your sister, the late sister, Christina also attended Davey High School, is that so?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: Evidence has been given by Mr Ndlovu that he was also at that school, Davey High School in standard  9.  Did you ever see him there?

MR MASUPA: That is not true because it was many years I've been attending that school, but I've never seen him in the campus of that school.

MR BLACK: Now, from a living point of view, did you used to sleep at your mother's house?  There is evidence rather, let's put it this way that you did not sleep at your mother's house but that you used to sleep at your grandfather's shopping complex after work?

MR MASUPA: That is true.  I may put it this way, well from the high primary up to high school I was sleeping at my grandfather's shop.

MR BLACK: Do you know Lazarus Matsomai?

MR MASUPA: Yes, Lazarus Matsomai was my friend because we attended school together.

MR BLACK: Right, and he was accused number 2 or the co
-accused in the criminal trial brought against Mr Ndlovu?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: Did Lazarus Matsomai ever sleep at your grandfather's house with you?

MR MASUPA: Yes, he did sleep at many instances with me.

MR BLACK: So he knew that you, that's where you stayed and slept and that you did not sleep at your parents' home?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: Now, if we can get to the 2nd of July 1987, you were working at your grandfather's shopping complex, is that correct?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: And in the restaurant?

MR MASUPA: That is true, Sir.

MR BLACK: Now, there is - according to the court records of the previous criminal proceedings and for the assistance of the Committee your evidence starts on page 15 of volume 1, you said that this group of people came into the shop.  A group of people including all six of these accused in the previous trial, one of whom was Mr Ndlovu.  Do you remember that?

MR MASUPA: I remember that Sir.

MR BLACK: Right, now they came into the shop.  Could you tell the court broadly speaking, what happened?

MR MASUPA: I'll put it this way.  These people, there were six all of them, they were six.  The one who gave - another girl who was selling at the counter, I was at the till at that time, they started to argue with the customers.  Others pulled out sjamboks and beat the customers, other customers ran out of the shop, others ran behind the counters.  When we tried to call them to order, we found
that the lady who was giving the money, I took their money then I told them that I will give you back your money, we are not going to serve you because you have beaten up our 
customers and others have run away and others are behind the counter.
	In that case, therefor we have no security, because they may take anything behind the counter.  That is when I tried to persuade them to go out.  I was together with a 
certain boy who was working at the shop, who was working permanently there who is David.  When we took them outside, they started to insult us.  We closed the burglar doors, we closed other customers inside the shop.  They started insulting.  We were not worried about the insults.
	What worried us was that we should help the customers so that those who are in the shop wouldn't be able to go out because it was at night.  After we helped those customers, we opened the door for them.  Before they left, while they were still insulting, one of them said to us you think you are better, we will burn the whole building.

MR BLACK: Okay, can you just slow down a little bit, Mr Masupa.  When you say one of them said to you that you think that you are better and we will build this whole building down.

JUDGE WILSON: Burn the whole building down.