Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes.  We were fighting against the police and what happened is that while we were fighting with the police they ran away and one of the police guns fell down while they were running away and comrade Mabena took that gun after I stabbed this policeman.  And at that time they have already shot me.  I had two wounds in my left leg.

MR SANDI: And the people next to you, did you see any of them being shot?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes, Mabena, next to me was shot on that day.

MR SANDI: Do you know any other people who were shot who are not present here?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: No, because others ran away when they saw that the police were shooting at us.  They shot me and Mabena but we managed to fight for ourselves.

MR SANDI: Did you go to a doctor for medical treatment?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: After the police ran away I asked them next to Mr Lingani's house, there was one then passing there.  And I asked will you take me to a hospital?

MR SANDI: What happened at the hospital.

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: I went to the hospital and whilst I was still at the hospital my leg could not function.  The doctor tried to treat me, when the police came and they wanted to take me and arrest me from the hospital.
 I was admitted to the hospital and I was under police guard.  Maj Mjobo, fortunately as I am mentioning his name, he received a letter, telling him that his name is going to be mentioned.   He is the one who has the full information about this matter.
 On that particular day, the same day, the 20th, Maj Mjobo went to the hospital Superintendent, telling him that he wanted me to be discharged from the hospital and they wanted to arrest me.   Maj Mjobo came to me and he beat me up on my leg as I was sleeping in the ward in the hospital.

MR SANDI: Did they take you to court?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: They took me to a single cell in prison.  I did not go to a waiting trial room.

MR SANDI: Did you go to court?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: I went to a waiting trial room after three days.

MR SANDI: Let us now speak about you as we are talking today.  Do you feel any pain since you were shot?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes Sir, I cannot stand for long time.  I have to sit down because I have cramps in my leg.

MR SANDI: Before proceeding to Mr Mabena do you have a request to this Commission, except for the one you have mentioned in your statement?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes I do have a request.   Firstly, or secondly or thirdly, I would like the Commission to help me to educate my children.  I cannot support my children because I am unemployed and I am not educated.
 Thirdly, I cannot work properly because of the car accident, a bus accident in 1984 and my nine ribs were cracked and when all this shooting incident took place my ribs were also affected.  And I think in my statement I have mentioned that issue.
 Lastly, I would like the Commission to help us in building a community hall here in Lusikisiki, because even now the Commission is here in the school, because we do not have a community hall in Lusikisiki.   
 Because at the time we were fighting we were trying 
to liberate our country even in our Freedom Charter, this was mentioned that people should have such facilities.  Even when we have a meeting here in Lusikisiki we cannot have a meeting when it is raining because we do not have a hall.

MR SANDI: Let us now go to Mr Mabena.
TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS
SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 25.03.1997 NAME:  SIMLINDILE MABENA

DAY: 2 LUSIKISIKI

SIMLINDILE MABENA: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mr Mabena you have heard the testimony of Mr Sapo.  Do you confirm the evidence he has given?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: Yes Sir.

MR SANDI: Is there anything else you want to add?  Or let me ask questions.   Were you shot?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: Yes I was shot on that day.

MR SANDI: Did you go to a hospital for medical treatment?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: I did not get proper medical treatment, because I was detained and I did not get a chance to go to hospital.   There is a bullet in my body, but I did not get a chance to go to hospital, because the police refused while we were in detention.

MR SANDI: Did you go to a private doctor?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: I did not get a chance, Sir, after I was detained.   I got the chance after I was released and I went to Umtata to the doctors there and they found out that the bullet is in my body and they cannot take it out.

MR SANDI: Do you still have that bullet inside your body?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Where is this bullet?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: It is in my right arm.

MR SANDI: You have made request in your statement.   Do you have any other requests to add?

SIMLINDILE MABENA: Sir, I do have requests.  The first one, I cannot work, because my arm is paralysed.
 Secondly, Mr Chairperson and the Commission, because I was working in one of the shops that dismissed people in Lusikisiki.  When I came back home from detention, at home I was supporting them.  And now I am not working nobody is supporting my family.   
 What I am requesting Mr Chairperson, is that because of my situation that I can no longer work, I want the Commission to help me to educate my children and myself.

MR SANDI: Thank you Sir.
 Let us now go to Mr Velile Ngcamla.
TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS
SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 25.03.1997 NAME:  VELILE NGCAMLA

DAY: 2 LUSIKISIKI

VELILE NGCAMLA: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mr Ngcamla, were you shot on this particular day?

VELILE NGCAMLA: Yes, I was shot.

MR SANDI: Do you have bullets embedded in your body?

VELILE NGCAMLA: There were nine bullets and I have one in my body right now.

MR SANDI: Did you go to a hospital or to a private doctor?

VELILE NGCAMLA: I went to a hospital and I was under police guard.    Six bullets were taken out of my body and two were taken out in Umtata.
 I was in prison for three years and I was sick.  I was suffering from diabetes.

MR SANDI: Except for the requests that you have made to this Commission that you want proper medical treatment, concerning the bullet in your body, do you have any other request?

VELILE NGCAMLA: Yes I do have a request.

MR SANDI: Did you mention this request while you were giving us your statement?

VELILE NGCAMLA: There is one that I did not mention.

MR SANDI: What is this request?

VELILE NGCAMLA: My request is that I have three cracks in my right arm and I had an operation in my chest and I could not work.   My children want money, everything wants
money.  If you can help me with my children.

MR SANDI: How many children do you have?

VELILE NGCAMLA: Three children.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Ngcamla.
 Let us now proceed to Nokuzola Phillip.
TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS
SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 25.03.1997        NAME:  NOKUZOLA PHILLIP

DAY: 2        LUSIKISIKI

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Nokuzola you have mentioned that on this day you were shot.  Where exactly were you shot?

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: Excuse me Mr Chairperson, I was not shot, but my brother, Fikile, was injured on that day.

MR SANDI: How old was Fikile at that time?

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: He was sixteen years old.

MR SANDI: Was he part of the march?

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: Yes he was part of the march.

MR SANDI: Who told you at home that Fikile was shot?

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: Luckily I was working at that time.   Two women came and told me that Fikile was in hospital. And they took me to hospital.
 When I arrived there they told me that he was in theatre, but unfortunately he passed away.

MR SANDI: Was he at school at that time?

NOKUZOLA PHILLIP: Yes, he was still at school at that time.  He used to have part time jobs during school holidays.

MR SANDI: Were there any other school children taking part in that march?