Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-17

ADV SIGODI: So he became aware of what you had done?  He was aware that you had shot somebody?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, I could say that.  I could say that he knew what we had done, because when we arrived, that is myself and Doctor, he saw us and he saw us rushing into the room.  He even asked us as to what was wrong and he wanted to know.  I explained to him that things were bad and police could come in any time.

ADV SIGODI: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Did Mr Zulu just offer to assist you?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Mbuzeni Zulu stayed in the same yard as us.  He was not my brother, but I think he sort of sympathised with me because I regarded him as my elder brother or my older brother.

CHAIRPERSON: And did he do anything else apart from saying that he could help you to find a place, a hide-out?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, there is nothing else that he did.

CHAIRPERSON: So he has never done anything to assist you in evading arrest or anything like that?  It was just a discussion that you were having?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, he never helped us in any other manner besides finding a place for us to stay.

CHAIRPERSON: No, but I just want to ascertain what he actually did, Mr Zulu.  Did he just say he will - well let me put it this way.  Did he actually help you to find a place to stay or did he just made that offer to you and said, "I could help you to find a place to stay"?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, when we went out, we went out with Mbuzeni Zulu.  He accompanied us.

CHAIRPERSON: And what did he actually do?  Did he help you find a place to hide away or what did he do?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, that is correct, he did help us.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Is it, as you say in paragraph 11 of your affidavit, in that first paragraph you say he promised to provide you with accommodation and then you went to Klipspruit.  I suppose to the house of his relative?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he introduce you to that relative of his?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And did he ask the relative to give you any assistance or what did he actually do?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, Mbuzeni went into the house and spoke to the owner of the house.  They came outside, that is himself and the owner.  I also approached the owner of the house who invited us inside his house.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't hear what Mr Zulu said to the owner of that house?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, I did not hear the exact words that they exchanged.

CHAIRPERSON: All right.  Now, just one other thing.  After you had reported to Moss that you had disarmed and shot this traffic officer, did Moss reprimand you at all?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, he did not reprimand us.  He accepted that and he regarded that as a mission accomplished.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Some of the points have been raised by Advocate Sigodi I wanted to raise.  It's just that on a few aspect.  Mr Mvijane, is it correct that you were still a recruit, you were newly recruited at the time of this incident?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, that is correct.  I was still a newly recruited soldier.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct if I say that you were not yet well versed with PAC and APLA policies in detail?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is true.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And Moss has just given you basics?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.  Is that all that you want to present in respect of the first applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.  Yes, Mr Chairman, that's all in respect.  I will wait the second applicant, then the person I'm going to call.  I'm calling after the last witness to cover both in respect of this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: And so for the moment that concludes the testimony of the first applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: In that case we will adjourn.

MR MAPOMA: Excuse me.  Excuse me, Chairperson.  I'm sorry, sir.  I just have one point to converse here.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.  Go ahead, Mr Mapoma.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, sir.  Mr Mvijane, there is a view that what you did was not an act associated with political objective, but was an act in carrying out of your acts of gangsterism.  What is your response to this suggestion?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I know absolutely nothing.  Anyone can say anything he likes, but what I have put before this Committee is the truth.

MR MAPOMA: Now, with the benefit of hindsight, how do you feel about the act that you did, bearing in mind that there are family members who lost their loved ones as a result of your action?  What is your feeling?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: What I can say to the members of the family is that whatever happened was not meant to carry out a certain vendetta against the family or against the deceased himself, but all that I did, I did in furtherance of the struggle for freedom.  I had no personal malice, I had no vendetta.  I did not know him.  I had not seen him before.  I was seeing him for the very first time when I killed him.  So it was nothing personal.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you.  No further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Any further aspect?  Yes, Mr Lax?

MR LAX: It's been suggested to you by Mr Mbandazayo that you were a new recruit and had you been on other operations before this one?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, I had not been involved in any other operations.  That was my first operation.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, have you got any further questions in the light of the questions that were posed to the applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We'll adjourn until 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS