Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-30

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: And as we were running away, I had not been shot at the time.  I was carrying a pot and as I was running I could feel that my leg was now being affected.  I threw the pot away and ahead of me there was some sparkle of fire on the pavement.
	I ran away right up to Mr Mhlango's shop.  I got into the shop and related the story to him, during which time he telephoned the police and he suggested that I should not stay there because he was afraid.  He did not know the people and they might follow me into the shop.  I got out of the shop through the back door and continued running.  
	I got into a house next door, hid myself in the toilet.  One person of the household came to the toilet.  I stood up afraid as I was, not knowing what was happening and the person who was standing outside the door realised that there was a person inside.  The person shouted, indicating that there was somebody in the toilet. 
	Police came.  I went back and my brother-in-law was already lying down but at the time I didn't know where my sister was.  I indicated to the police that I didn't know where my sister was.  They requested that I get into the ambulance and I refused. 
	At the time I hadn't felt the pain but had realised that I got injured.  The ambulance attendant wanted to know why I was not getting into the ambulance and I indicated to them that I was afraid because people were being finished off at the hospitals at the time.
	These people came back later in a white van accompanied by the police.  They took me to the hospital where I was under police guard.  On that very same evening I was not able to sleep because police keep coming to take statements from me.
	I had not known the killer at the time and on the following morning when I was supposed to go for an operation with an intention of checking as to whether the bullet was lodged in me or not, there was a group of ANC woman who came saying I should not be admitted to the hospital, I should be removed.   People were present refusing permission, people who wanted to come in and see me.
	I left the hospital without have been healed because the nurses were afraid, seeing that there were allegations that I was a member of the Black Cats.  After the operation two days thereafter, I tried to got to the toilet but the stitches got off and they couldn't sew back the stitches.  That is how I was discharged back home.
	The police often came home, that is the detectives trying to get information from me and right up until 1994 when they came to inform me that the killer had been apprehended.

MR HATTINGH: Do you know with how many shots you were hits?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I don't know.  I could not count because I was confused and shocked.

MR HATTINGH: What injuries did you suffer?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Would you please explain?

CHAIRPERSON: Afterwards, how many scars or scabs, or couldn't you find out how many injuries you'd
sustained?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I sustained one scar on the thigh because the bullet got through my thigh from the back and exited on the front.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were hit once?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when were running and you were hit, how far was Ngwenya from you?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: He was already lying down when I was shot as I was running.

CHAIRPERSON: He would obviously then have been behind you?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see him fall?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: No, I only saw once he was lying down.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you run past him when he was on the ground?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Chairperson, I would like to explain.  When I threw the pot away I looked back and realised that he was lying down.

CHAIRPERSON: And your sister?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I couldn't see where she had disappeared into and I only heard about her when I was in hospital because for the first time when people came to me in hospital they didn't want to tell me the truth, people like Mtetwa.  They were afraid that this was going to affect me seeing that I was still awaiting an operation and they only told me later that she was in the mortuary.

CHAIRPERSON: When you heard these sounds of gunshots you turned and ran away and you know that Ngwenya was running in the same direction with you, but when you turned around after having thrown the pot away you saw him lying on the ground, do I understand you correctly?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know in which direction your sister ran when you first heard the shots or can't you say?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: When I saw her last she was taking a direction toward my brother-in-law's place.

CHAIRPERSON: Would that be in the same direction you were running or some different direction?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Some other direction to what you were running?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: She was proceeding towards where we were headed.  She went straight to my brother-in-law's place
and we took the direction towards the grounds.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.   And you don't know when she was injured?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: No, I have no idea at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Hattingh, any more questions?

MR HATTINGH: Just confirmation.
	When you were hit, was that after you had thrown down the pots?

CHAIRPERSON: No, she said she threw the pot down because she was hit, when she felt there was something wrong with her leg.

MR HATTINGH: Do you still suffer from any problems today with your leg?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Yes, because since then my leg was never the same because I was not even offered any help at the hospital.  My leg is no longer the same.  For example, when it is cold it is affected.  For example, I was playing soccer on Monday and I was affected and I could not walk thereafter.

MR HATTINGH: Then if we just turn to page 11 of Exhibit B, that will be your statement.  In paragraph 3 thereof, the last sentence you say words to the effect that you identified the one person as being an employee of Mr John Mndebele.

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: Who was this person?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: The one person that I identified was Mzala.

MR HATTINGH: Is that his nickname?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: I don't know whether that's his nickname or not but that is one name that was used in the township.  The same name is still being used.

MR HATTINGH: Just lastly, when the people started to shoot at you, just to confirm, were they in front of you or to your side or at your back?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: One of them was on the side and the other one was on the other side and we were in the middle of both.

MR HATTINGH: Just indicate, Chris and Lindiwe, did they have children?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: What is the present position with their children?  What happened to them?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: They are in a terrible state because they are now under the care of my unemployed uncle.  They are just children who are living in the mercy of the Lord because the deceased died pregnant.

MR HATTINGH: How old are the children?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh, I will accept your attorney's list with their ages.  I need an address though and I want it before we go home.

MR HATTINGH: Then just lastly, your mother was involved in this hearing until some stage, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Of what relevance is that Mr Hattingh, she's no longer involved?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I'll skip that question.
	Were you approached at any stage by anyone to withdraw your opposition to the applications?

THEMBISILE NKAMBULE: No, no.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH

MR BLACK: Yes, Mr Chairman, I want to just clear up two matters here.
	Miss Nkambule, would you look at that document that you're holding in front of you there.  That is a statement which you made to the police under oath, is t hat correct?  And have you been through that statement?