Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-13

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, please do.

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: Yes.  The political objective, Mr Steenkamp, for the murder of Mr Babas.
	It is true that by then MK had suspended the armed struggle, after the Pretoria Minute.  But it was strongly believed amongst us, including our leadership, that that did not stop the MK from recruiting, organising and establishing structures inside and outside South Africa, and I should think that from the submissions made by the African National Congress to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, that issue is also included that many of our comrades were taken for conventional training, outside the country even after the suspension of the armed struggle, in countries such as Tanzania, Uganda, India, Pakistan.
	Recruitment and establishment of MK structures did not stop with the abandonment or with the suspension rather, of the armed struggle.  As MK operatives, we had to take the responsibility to ensure the safekeeping of the material of the movement, we would never have departed with them so easily.
	But I wish to point out Mr Chairperson and every one present here, that we view Mr Babas as not very different from other victims, particularly civilians who as innocent as they were, who as innocent as they were, I repeat, were caught in the cross-fire.
	I believe that Mr Babas was not very different from a multitude of other South Africans who were either killed or injured while killed or seated in restaurants enjoying their meals or attending church services, or killed by rightwingers manning a road block.
	I want to assume that this understanding, this remark would not be misinterpreted.  Mr Babas was unknown to us and we did not plan to kill him in any way, nor take his motor vehicle by force.  His racial belonging was also not a factor in this instance, his car Mr Chairperson, was taken by force because ours had been badly damaged during the shoot out and it could not travel fast.
	We sincerely believed that by taking his car, we would be able to retreat out of the scene faster and secure the safety of MK's weapons.  This would have enabled us Mr Chairperson, to make other arrangements for the transportation of those weapons to their intended destination in pursuit of the objective of establishing more underground structures for Umkhonto.
	Throughout the years we have spent in prison with my co-accused here, we quite often talked about the death of Mr Babas, which continues to trouble us up to this day because we were accomplices to it.
	We even at some stage decided, or rather agreed to communicate with his family to express our heartfelt sorrow at the loss of their beloved.  Despite that, it would be extremely difficult to resuscitate that painful incident.  We acknowledge that Mr Babas' death, Mr Babas' life was worthwhile and that his death at our hands, is very much regrettable.
	We hope that his family, his friends and all those who loved him, would forgive us.  We know that it is not very easy to do so, but that would be very much understandable.
	As for our own part, we wish to declare to Mr Babas, his family, his friends in front of the entire South African nation, that we are deeply sorry.  We hope that you will forgive our sins.  That also applies to the traffic officers, who although as members of the Security establishment, were doing their daily or routine duties, we wish to express our heartfelt sorrow.
	In conclusion, to all the Commissioners sitting here, to all the men in this country and women who have espoused this beautiful idea of reconciliation and this moment of national ...(indistinct), this moment represents an important era.  This process that you are giving shape and texture to, is highly recommended, is highly commendable by us.  Your preponderant contribution Mr Chairperson, would mark the opening to a new era.  An era in which the infliction of pain and suffering of hatred and anger by  men on his fellow beings, would be a thing of the past.
	An era Mr Chairperson, whose dimensions would be measured on an intergalactic scale and whose substance will be based on the free and fullest development of the human personality.  I wish to take this opportunity to thank you once more, to thank you once more for giving us this chance to meet eye to eye with those we have so gravely wronged.  We reiterate our deepest sorrow and beg for your forgiveness.
	I must say that I am deeply disappointed to hear that only one of the victims came to this session.  I had hoped that even if they were going to oppose our application, we would be able to meet with them, express directly to them our deepest sorrow and regret.
	It is understandable, we would not expect everyone like Mr Van Heerden to support the process of reconciliation in our land.  That is not an easy thing.  If we take all the conflicts of the past, all the grudges we have had in the past and place them in our hands.
	I hope Mr Chairperson, that I have said all that I have wished to say to this sitting.  If there are any things that I have left out or omitted to say to this Committee, because of the very fact of my fallibility as a human being, my fellow comrades, will touch on those.  We have been through a hard time throughout our lives.  We have never enjoyed our youth because of the conflicts of the past.
	I do not think that this Commission should also be party to condemning us to those dungeons of hopelessness.  We have a life to live as well.  We would like to forget and erase from our minds, everything that has happened and move forward, and make whatever positive contribution we have to make, in our new country, in our fragile democracy.
	I now rest my case Mr Chairperson.

MR MHLABA: Thank you Mr Wanyane, I just want to take you back on just one aspect.  You have often in your evidence referred to Ben.  Is that the third applicant in this matter?

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: That is correct Mr Mhlaba.

MR MHLABA: And again you have on several occasions referred to Babs, does that relate to the second applicant in this matter?

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: That is correct Mr Mhlaba.

MR MHLABA: You have briefly touched on the incident when there was a scuffle between Ben and the deceased, Mr Babas.

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: Yes.

MR MHLABA: Can we read into your statement that Mr Babas was shot during that scuffle by Ben?

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: Yes.

MR MHLABA: Thank you Mr Chairman, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mhlaba.  Adv Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I have spoken to Inspector Moletsani, he is sitting here today.  I just want to put the following on record.
	Inspector Moletsani was shot twice in his right leg during the incident.  During the last few years, he couldn't understand why he as a normal law-abiding citizen doing his duty, routine work, was shot.  After he listened to the applicant, he has decided that in the spirit of reconciliation, he is withdrawing his application for opposing the application of the applicant, and therefore doesn't have any further questions for the applicant.  As it pleases you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Adv Steenkamp.  Mr Moletsani, we have noted what was placed on record on your behalf by Adv Steenkamp.
	We are gratified by the fact that you have received some answers to questions that had been troubling you for quite some time, which of course is one of the underlying purposes of this process.  Thank you.
	Mr Mhlaba, we have a fairly full account of the particular incident from Mr Wanyane, a very full account.  Are you placing any further testimony before us?