Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — UNKNOWN

MR HUGO: So during this period, if I understand you correctly, you were second in command of the security police in Port Elizabeth, is that correct?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: And you would obviously have been concerned about the security of the policemen, is that not so?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: And more specifically security police?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: And more specifically black security policemen who operated in these black townships.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: What steps did you take by virtue of the position at the time, to ensure the safety of the policemen?

MR VAN RENSBURG: I can't recall that I took steps myself.  Most of the black members worked under Mr du Plessis or were under his command.  I know that he took certain steps.  At that time, if I remember correctly, guards were sometimes posted at these member's homes and - I don't know what you would call it, but there were certain strips attached to their windows which would prevent - perhaps some of the members here would know better, which would prevent the glass shattering.
	Alright, let us be more specific.  What steps were taken for instance to ensure the safety of the police stations?

MR VAN RENSBURG: A couple of members were posted on the perimeters of the police station to patrol the area, these were armed members if that's what you refer to.

MR HUGO: And would you say that the security measures were intensified as far as access control to the police stations at that time?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, yes, I would agree with that.

MR HUGO: So for an unmarked vehicle to simply move in and out and have access to the police station at that time would have been extremely difficult in view of these measures?

MR VAN RENSBURG: I can't answer that specifically.   I don't know from personal experience or personal information, I don't know what the situation was at New Brighton police station at that stage.  I didn't go and view the situation for myself in New Brighton, I can't tell you what the situation was.

MR HUGO: General, if you say that during this period you never went to New Brighton police station ...[intervention]

MR VAN RENSBURG: I wouldn't say that I never went there myself but I didn't go there very often during my period here.  I also recall that I only went there during the day.

MR HUGO: Let us assume that you went there during the day, upon arriving there during the day, were there guards who would for instance ask you for identification?

MR VAN RENSBURG: As far as I can recall I never went there on my own, I would always drive with somebody, somebody who was more familiar with the place and the members at that particular police station.  I would have accompanied such a person.
	And my recollection is that usually when the security vehicles approached the gate the people would immediately open the gate so that we could drive through and that was an indication to me that the person with me was well-known to the persons on guard duty.

MR HUGO: Did you drive there in an ordinary police vehicle with this person?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: Just one other aspect which I want to clarify with you.  You say that the feedback discussions took place from half past seven to nine o'clock that morning, you're not quite sure of that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, that's correct.

MR HUGO: And Mr van Zyl and Mr du Plessis.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Snyman and Mr van Zyl.

MR HUGO: Reported to you?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.

MR HUGO: Was there anything significant or unusual about Mr van Zyl's physical appearance?

MR VAN RENSBURG: No.

MR HUGO: Last aspect.  Did you at any stage after this occurrence report to the Chief of the Security Police in Pretoria that you had been involved in this incident.

MR VAN RENSBURG: No.

MR HUGO: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HUGO

MR NOLTE: I don't have any questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR NOLTE

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and in the circumstances we are going to adjourn till Monday morning half past nine.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS