Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: TREVETS was a secret organisation.  It wascalled TREVETS, that's the Counter-revolutionary Information TargetCentre.  It was formed in 1985.  Initially it identified targetsin the neighbouring states, terrorist bases etc, but it was laterextended to targets within the Republic.  It is possible thatthe instruction with regard to Piet Ntuli came from TREVETS. TREVETS obtained and gathered information from the various regionswith regard to particular targets and then there were monthlymeetings during which the information of all the sectors, suchas Military Intelligence, National Intelligence, the SecurityBranch of the SAP and the Special Forces of the South
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African Defence Force were discussed, considered, and targetswere identified.  At that time C1 was the Vlakplaas Unit.  C2was the Interrogation Unit and C3 was TREVETS.  Every region hadits own Target Analysis Centre and the regions were Western Transvaal,Northern Transvaal, Far North, Northern Cape and Eastern Transvaal.
 Colonel Tom Louw was responsible, or was initially in commandof TREVETS with executive chief General Buchner who was functioningin 1987 and after that under General Bob Beukes and subsequentlyunder Brigadier Victor.  Targets were identified by TREVETS. There was a representative from Military Intelligence and SADFSpecial Forces.  Every region maintained records with regard towho were activists, who came from which region and who causedtrouble.
 Colonel Louw made a document out of the information which wasthen used to identify targets.  It was a secret component sinceonly persons working with terrorism cooperated with it.  A prioritylist was maintained.  The State Security Council knew of the existenceof TREVETS, particularly with regard to its actions outside theRepublic.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Brigadier.  Could you continuewith regard to the death of activists.

UNKNOWN: Within the context of the previously sketchedwar situation there were circumstances under which activists hadto be eliminated by killing them.  It's the only way in this warsituation in which activists could be effectively acted against. Merely arresting them in terms of security legislation was insufficientas it was of a limited and brief duration.  To charge such a personand take them through the formal legal structures and procedureswas
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cumbersome and insufficient and impossible and there was no otherchoice than to take normal war action and to eliminate activists. This was considered necessary under the circumstances.   
 Reports with regard to the death of activists was passed on toHead Office and there was never any repudiation or instructionsto stop these eliminations, or discontinue these eliminations. Under the circumstances there were files where the file numberof the person was given to the Head Office and nothing was donesubsequently with regard to this death.  Under these circumstancesit was considered necessary to eliminate activists in defenceof the State and to combat the revolutionary efforts against theState of the ANC, SACP, PAC and other liberation movements.  Itwas done to protect innocent civilians including primarily Blackcivilians who suffered under the riotous and destabilising actionsof activists.

UNKNOWN: A question Brigadier.  Was the informationsystem of the Security Police sufficient with regard to the particularactions of activists or operations of terrorists to stop theseactions before they occurred?

UNKNOWN: The information system of the South AfricanPolice, the Security Police was of the best in the world.

UNKNOWN: If you listen to my question, was thesecurity system good enough that you were able to foresee andact against terrorists so that you could prevent actions?  Didyou know every time where terrorists were going to act?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  We did not always know Chair.  Justrepeat your question.

UNKNOWN: What I want to know is whether your
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information system was good enough to act preventatively?  Didyou know every time when terrorists were going to attack a particularhouse, were you able to stop them before they could do this?

UNKNOWN: No this was not at all possible.  We hadto act by eliminating them.

UNKNOWN: Brigadier just generally or broadly speakingthese activists who were eliminated or who you decided to eliminatewhat kind of person would this normally have been and what actionswould they already have been responsible for?  This is just broadlyspeaking.  What kind of actions would have been committed alreadyby these activists to justify their elimination?

UNKNOWN: Arson, throwing stones, attacking the housesof police persons, school boycotts, consumer boycotts, necklacing.

UNKNOWN: Brigadier would you have eliminated activistswho were only guilty of minor actions or very serious actions?

UNKNOWN: Only in the case of really serious actions.

UNKNOWN: Brigadier could you continue to the nexttopic, the Racial Foundation.

UNKNOWN: The struggle was never racially based. Investigations into actions by White persons also came under myjurisdiction on occasion.  I cannot remember specific instancesbut it was dealt with in exactly the same manner as actions againstBlack activists.  The difference was that there had not been awar situation between right-wing organisations and the governmentof the day.  It was therefore not considered necessary to eliminateWhite right-wing persons in the same way as activists.  The
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actions of the security branch, Northern Transvaal, of which Iwas in command, therefore never was aimed at a Black/White conflict,was never involved in racism.

UNKNOWN: Brigadier this is apart from the factthat you supported apartheid?

UNKNOWN: That is the case.

UNKNOWN: Brigadier let me make it clear, it appearsthat there are persons who do not understand your testimony. Your actions against activists, was it actions against them becausethey were Black?

UNKNOWN: No.

UNKNOWN: Was your action against activists aimedagainst them because they were persons, against terrorists andactivists was this aimed against them because they were personsguilty of criminal actions?

UNKNOWN: Insofar as this related to acts of terror,yes.

UNKNOWN: Were your actions aimed to combat thearmed struggle of the ANC and other liberation movements?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Were there occasions when you acted againstWhite activists who supported liberation movements?

UNKNOWN: Yes there were.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Brigadier for clarifying this. Brigadier could you continue with the next topic, the effectof the actions of the security branch.

UNKNOWN: The pro-active actions of the security branchagainst the onslaught on the government was remarkably effective. It was so effective that the division Northern Transvaal hadthe least incidents of all the regions in the Republic of SouthAfrica at a later stage.  The pro-active
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action was therefore justified under the circumstances and hadresults.  It combatted the onslaught on the State by the liberationmovements and prevented further destabilisation.

UNKNOWN: Could you continue to the next topic,the next general topic with regard to the destruction of documents.

UNKNOWN: I had already retired when the instructionwas given to destroy documentation.  If documentation was availabletoday it would have eased my task in this application for amnesty. I do not have any documentation in my possession in support ofmy application with regard to specific incidents except that withregard to which I have referred in this document.

UNKNOWN: Do you have any personal knowledge ofthe destruction of documentation by the security police?

UNKNOWN: No.

UNKNOWN: Did people tell you anything in this regard?