Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-19

MR POTGIETER: We welcome the victims and next of kin of those who lost their lives in the incident that we are looking at.  Today is the second and the last day of the resumed hearing on the Bisho massacre that happened on the 7th of September 1992.  I would also say a warm word of welcome to the dignitaries and other leadership figures who are with us this morning.  It's important in order to assist this process and to help with the reckoning of the past that this process is engaged with to have our leaders supporting, physically and otherwise the process.  Thank you for coming.
 I just need to make one or two preliminary remarks before we start listening to the testimonies.  Again just to place on record that this panel hearing the evidence will not be making any findings today.  We won't be making a final decision on any of the many issues which have arisen in this particular matter relating to this particular incident.  Findings will be made in due course once all of the investigations are done and all of the relevant material has been collected and that will be done by the Commission itself.  That's the first point.
 Secondly, I need hardly make this point, but for the record I do, and that is to remind people that although we are not in a court of law we do require a measure of 
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discipline at the proceedings and that the decorum be maintained throughout the proceedings although sometimes 
there are issues which arise that we don't always agree with, or we find hard to hear, but it is the very nature of this process that we are called upon to listen to all the perspectives and all the sides, popular or unpopular or otherwise in order to come to an objective decision.
 Finally in this regard just to place on record that it is an offence, like it is in a court of law to wilfully mislead the Commission.  A person who does that is liable to prosecution.
 Just briefly again to introduce the panel which hasn't really changed much since yesterday.  On the far right, on my far right is Advocate Ntsiki Sandi, who is a member of our Human Rights Violations Committee. He is from this region.  He is based at our office in East London.  Next to him is Ms Tiny Maya, member at the same committee also based in East London and in this region, Eastern Cape region.  Next to me is June Crichton who is also a member of the same Human Rights Violations Committee, she works in the region but she is based in Port Elizabeth.  Next to me on my left is the coordinator of our region in the Eastern Cape and of our office in East London, the Reverend Bongani Finca who is a Commissioner.  Next to him, from the Western Cape, based at our Cape Town office, is Dr Mapule Ramashala.  She is a Commissioner and a member of our Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee.  Next to her from Gauteng, based in our Johannesburg office is Ms Hlengiwe Mkhize.  She is the Chairperson of the Reparation and Rehabilitation Committee.  Next to her is Reverend Mcebisi Xundu who is a member of the same committee, Reparation and Rehabilitation, EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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and he is based in our offices in Port Elizabeth.
 I am going to ask Ms Maya to read the list of witnesses that will be heard today.
MS MAYA READS THE NAMES OF THE WITNESSES APPEARING

MR POTGIETER: Just to announce the rest of the programme.  After the tea adjournment we would be getting a submission from Brigadier O J Gqozo who was the Chairman of the Ciskei Council of State at the time in September of 1992 when the massacre happened.  That should take us up to the luncheon adjournment and after that we will receive submissions from Dr Antonie Gildenhuys who was at the time Chairman of the Peace Accord Secretariat, as well as testimony from Colonel Chris Nel who was then the head of the Ciskei Military Intelligence.  So we will receive those submissions in addition to the testimony of the persons who have been named in the list read by Ms Maya.  As you can well understand it is a busy programme and I am going to proceed immediately to start taking the first of the testimonies and I am going to ask Reverend Xundu to call up the first witnesses and let them take the oath.

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairman I call upon Kevilin Nokhumzi Khundulu, Mr Lawrence Mangona and Dilala Mtshamba.

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: (sworn states)

LORANCE MANGONA: (sworn states)

DILALA MTSHAMBA: (sworn states)

MR POTGIETER: Advocate Sandi will facilitate the testimony of Mrs Khundulu.  The testimony of the Mangona family will be facilitated by Ms Tiny Maya, and the testimony of Mrs Mtshamba will be facilitated by Ms Crichton.

MR SANDI: Thank you Chairperson.  Mrs Khundulu you have made an application to appear before the Truth Commission to EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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tell us about what happened to your son when the people were shot at Bisho on the 7th of September 1992, is that so?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes that is correct.

MR SANDI: What is the name of your son?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Sipho...

MR SANDI: On that particular day of the march to Bisho your son also participated?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes he also went to the march.

MR SANDI: Can you Mrs Khundulu can you please tell us how did you get the news that your son was shot?  Who told you the news?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: On a Monday in 1992 in September I was at work.  When I came back from work my brother Peter was with me and I arrived at my house.  They left to my father-in-law's place.  They came back to me and when they told me this I became unconscious.

MR SANDI: You said your son is one of those people who died during the shooting at Bisho?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes.  They told me that he died on the spot.

MR SANDI: Where was his funeral?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: It was in Ginsberg.

MR SANDI: Wasn't he buried in the mass funeral with the other ANC members?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes he was with the others in Ginsberg.

MR SANDI: Mrs Khundulu can you please tell us how did this whole incident affect you?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: After that I was not well in health.  I was visiting a clinic regularly because I was suffering from high blood pressure.  What was more painful about this, this son of mine had a matric and he was ready to apply to further his education.  On that particular year he wanted to EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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go to the Initiation School.  We made all those arrangements so that he can go to the Initiation School in November on 
that same year.

MR SANDI: Was everything arranged for that initiation?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes, everything was there, even the blankets that were to be used.

MR SANDI: Ms Khundulu you said among your children, among your five children, he was the first born?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: Yes he was my first born.

MR SANDI: Did you ever go to the legal representatives to seek for help or advice as to what to do about this incident?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: No we didn't go to the attorneys.

MR SANDI: You didn't hear about the other people who were also affected by this shooting that those people went to the attorneys Smith and Tabatha's in King Williamstown?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: No, I didn't hear anything about that because I was told that everything is in the hands of the ANC organisation.

MR SANDI: When you heard that the people were consulting legal representatives did you go there?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: No.

MR SANDI: Is that all that you would like to tell us Mrs Khundulu, or perhaps there is something else that you would like to tell us about your wishes?

KEVILIN NOKHUMZI KHUNDULU: What I would like to say is that I request that my children should be assisted financially in education.

MR SANDI: Are all these children still at school?