Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-10

MR BIZOS COMMITTEE ON APPLICATION: Mr Chairman, our learned friend made a preliminary statement and we would ask for leave to very briefly state in broad terms the basis of our opposition so that the issues before you may be clarified in order to weigh up the evidence as you hear it, having regard to what we are going to submit.
	We are going to oppose these applications on behalf of the family on two main grounds.  
	Firstly, that in the detailed statements made for the benefit of the Committee, where the new versions appears, which has been summarised by our learned friend;  there is no full disclosure of the facts and that the new versions, even though substantially similar to that given at the inquest in 1977, has merely been modified in order to try and explain away some of the concrete evidence which did not fit with the false version that was put up under oath during the course of the inquest in 1977.
	Secondly, that there is recitation of what was their political 
objective, is not the sort of objective that is envisaged in the Act and to summarise our position briefly, that torturing helpless detainees held under Section 6 of the Terrorism Act for the purposes of extracting information from them;  either false or true to the point that they finish up dead is not a political objective that any civilised society can tolerate.
	There will be refinements to these main submissions, but those in the main are the grounds upon which we oppose this application.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, is there anything you wish to say at this stage?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Nothing to add, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Erasmus, I should have asked you?

MR ERASMUS COMMITTEE ON APPLICATION: Meneer die Voorsitter, baie dankie.  Ek gaan nie onnodig u tyd mors nie ... (intervention).

INTERPRETER: The speaker is not activating his microphone.

MR ERASMUS: I will not waste your time unnecessarily.  My client will give testimony that will in the main be the same as the clients of Adv Booyens.
	My client claims that he was not part of the investigative team;  that in fact he was a mere observer who stood in the door of the interrogation room and that he saw that the deceased, Mr Biko, 
bumped or threw a certain chair at Capt Siebert.
	He also saw that Mr Biko aimed a punch at Capt Siebert and that in an effort to bring Mr Biko under control and to inhibit any further threatening attack or assault, that he took Mr Biko into a secure hold.
	That in fact a shuffle did occur during which all of the applicants present took part and that beyond that the testimony would be the same as that sketched to you by Adv Booyens.
	My client, through the course of the afternoon of the 6th of September 1977, guarded the deceased and noted that he appeared disorientated, or possibly confused. 
	He was replaced by the night guard, a further set of police officers and during the afternoon of the 7th of September 1977, resumed guarding Mr Biko.
	He was not involved in any of the transport arrangements or other arrangements with regard to Mr Biko's transfer to Pretoria and his involvement ended on the 7th of September 1977.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR ERASMUS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Booyens.

MR BOOYENS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, just before I proceed to call Mr Snyman, I would like to hand in a medical certificate in respect of Mr - the applicant Mr Marx.  We
have discussed the matter with my learned colleague, Mr Mpshe, and from the medical certificate it would appear that Mr Marx is 75 years old;  that he's suffering from high blood pressure and emphysema and loss of concentration and accordingly, we discussed it with my learned friend with the purpose that Marx is not out of disrespect to the Commission not here, but due to his condition of health we will only have him here on those occasions when in our view his presence would be strictly speaking necessary.  I ask leave to hand that in, Mr Chairman.
MEDICAL CERTIFICATE HANDED IN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, I will have to proceed in Afrikaans henceforth.  I call Mr Snyman.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Snyman, your full names for the record please.

INTERPRETER: The speaker is not using the microphone, but his full names are Harold Snyman.

MR BOOYENS: Do you have any objections against the making of the oath?

HAROLD SNYMAN: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: You may resume, you may take your seat.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Snyman, your date of birth is the 23rd of April 1928 and you were born in Uitenhage.  Is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Is it in addition correct that currently you are 69 years of age?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: You are a pensioner at this stage?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Did you during your career support any political organisation?

MR SNYMAN: That is the case.

MR BOOYENS: What would that have been?

MR SNYMAN: The National Party.

MR BOOYENS: Were you an official or anything of that nature or merely a member of the National Party?

MR SNYMAN: I was only a member.

MR BOOYENS: On your retirement, what was your position?  Not in the party, but what was your work?

MR SNYMAN: At that time I went home and at a later stage I went to work for Sanlam for a number of years.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, we cannot hear the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Please check whether the mike works adequately so that your client can be heard.  Unfortunately there seems to be some difficulty.  Will you talk into the mike, please?
Yes, let's hear?

MR BOOYENS: At the time of your retirement from the police, what was your position, what was your rank in the police upon retirement?

MR SNYMAN: I was a colonel.

MR BOOYENS: And also regional commander of the security branch in the Eastern Cape, is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: I will lead you on the following aspect.  In paragraph 8(b) of your application, you explain or indicate your history in the South African Police.  Is that correct?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Maybe you can read that for us for record purposes.

MR SNYMAN: "Attested on the 25th of the 2nd 1947.
In 1947 I was a constable at the Bakenstreet Police Station in Port Elizabeth.
		1947, district commissioner, Port Elizabeth North.
		1949, Alexander Bay.
		1950, Louis Le Grange Square.
		1951, district commissioner, Port Elizabeth North.
		1953, Louis Le Grange Square.
		1953, New Brighton.
		1955, Baken Street Police Station, Port Elizabeth
		1955 I achieved the rank of sergeant.
		1955 I continued at Louis Le Grange Square.
		1960, district commissioner, Grahamstown.
		1961, regional commissioner, or the office of the regional commissioner in the Eastern Cape near Port Elizabeth.
		1964, warrant officer.
		1965 I was transferred to Pretoria to security branch head office.
		1967 I was returned to the security branch Port Elizabeth.
		1968 I achieved the rank of lieutenant.
		1971 I was promoted to captain.
		1976 to manager.
		1981 to lieutenant-colonel.
		1985 colonel.
		I attended courses in 1947 with regard to first-aid and in 1967 with regard to the identification of explosives and explosive devices."

MR BOOYENS: That is fine then.  In your application you then continue to provide a brief personal overview or sketch of which you have already partly explained to us.  Could you tell us the circumstances of your childhood.

MR SNYMAN: I grew up in a conservative Afrikaans home.

MR BOOYENS: Maybe you should read the first paragraph of this brief personal overview and we could expand on that.