Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   I don't remember quite well because it was at night when they came.  They came to his bedroom at the window.  Somebody knocked.  When he tried to see as to who was knocking he was shot on the stomach.  Then he was taken by Mr Msimanga.  He had come to visit me and he discovered that my son had been shot.  He was taken to hospital and he was dead on arrival.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... was this, just so that ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   He has since died.  He was killed by the ZP.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... day has any criminal case happened into the deaths of any of your children?

WITNESS:   No, they are not charged.  It's just accepted that they must die.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... court inquests, that is court inquiries into the death of any of your children as far as you've been ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   I was called to D Court.  They told me to look for an attorney.  I told them that I did not need an attorney.  I said I was going to speak for myself because I was there.  Then the Magistrate told me that the case cannot go on without me having an attorney.  There was nothing more to say.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... that inquest thereafter?

WITNESS:   The Magistrate told us lies.  He said they just could not talk, they were denying that they killed my sons.  He said I was the one who had killed my sons ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 4) ... the Magistrate said I will be told by the Attorney-General as to when the case was going to be heard.  Up til today I haven't heard a thing.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... look up the details.  You've given us a copy of the subpoena for you to come to that inquest.  That was into Simon Mthembu's death, is that correct, that inquest?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did get a subpoena.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... either of the other sons?

WITNESS:   There was absolutely nothing.  I am forgetting something.  One day Martin came to me.  He's an attorney.  He told me that the Court said they wanted to see me.  They said I should come in front of the Court.  He said I should phone Matthew, who would come and talk to them.  When my attorney that he got sick.  Sorry, that was the mother.  Up til today the mother is very sickly.  She has sugar diabetes.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   That is correct.  She even collapsed. (Inaudible) ... requested you?   ---   I went to D Court.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I went only once.

MR LAX: Sorry, you've told us that after you left Imbali there were other people who were now staying in your house at Imbali.

WITNESS:   Yes, the Inkatha group.  I once went there.  The ceiling was no longer there.  They had torn the house apart.  I went to report to the police that I was going.  Even the car that was in my yard is no longer there now.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... at Imbali.

WITNESS:   It was my house and I had renovated it.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... title deed for it?

WITNESS:   I had bought the plot.  I have a title.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... recover your property there?

WITNESS:  I made several attempts, but now I am scared.  It's better for me to sell the house, but now people are afraid to occupy the house.  And it's already damaged now.

KHOZA MGOJO: I would just like to find out more about the perpetrators.  I heard that Jerome is late.  What about Thulani Ngcobo?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's KwaZulu.  Thu Ngcobo.

KHOZA MGOJO: He died?

WITNESS:   Yes, he died.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mkhize he is still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, still alive.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Mr Mthembu, thank you very much for coming in today and patiently waiting all day to share your story with us.  Those people who are here today who lived in Imbali during the 1980s can understand the story that you tell, and they know the terror that was forced upon the
 /People of
people of Imbali at that time.  
Many of the people who have appeared here at this Commission over the past three days have mentioned the names of Jerome Mncwabe, Abdul Awetha, Sikizo Zuma and Thulani Ngcobo, and you have helped us to get a clearer picture of who these people where and what they did during those days.
During this period you turned to the law to assist you, and your persecutors ignored the orders of the Court and continued to harass you, threaten you, attack you.  They even tried to kill your son in hospital.  Tragically two of your sons died of being shot by these people, and another one of your sons was shot, but was lucky enough to survive.  The people who did these things were allowed to act with impunity in those days, and we hope that this sort of thing has now passed, although that can be of little comfort to you now.  You have also lost your house and your possessions.
As you have probably heard me and my fellow Commissioners and Committee Members say today, one of our jobs is to make recommendations to the Government as to how people like you should be assisted, and we will be making recommendations to the Government in due course.
In the meantime we thank you very much again for coming here and telling us your story, so that we have been able to get a far clearer picture of what it was like to live in Imbali in those day.  Thank you again, and we wish you strength in the future.  Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Mr Zondi, are you able to hear me and understand me through the microphone?

WELLINGTON ZONDI: I can hear you.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... so long.  You have waited the whole day to give your evidence.  You have come here from Imbali township, and you, like Mr Mthembu before you, have come to tell us about the killing of your son, Zenzele, Bongani and Mlungise.  In your case it was three sons who died.  We extend our deep sympathy to you, and we thank you very much for coming and having the courage to come and share these experiences and these memories with us.  Before you tell us your story please will you stand up and take the oath.

WELLINGTON ZONDI: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: Mr Zondi, I'll ask my colleague, Mr Dlamini,to assist you with your evidence.

MR DLAMINI: Good morning, Mr Mangeza.  We get the report that you were at work and come late.  We would like to thank you for having been able to come.  As it has already been said that this is a painful case which involved three of your sons.  Maybe before we get deep into the matter we would like to hear more about your family.  Is your wife still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is.  I had eight children.  I had four daughters and four sons.

MR DLAMINI: Can you speak up loud please.

WITNESS:   One of my sons died of sickness, and also my daughter, and I was left with six children.  Some of the six - the three boys I am going to talk about are some of the six I am talking about.

MR DLAMINI: Which simply means you don't have - you are not left  /Which simply

MR DLAMINI: with any son at home?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is the truth.

MR DLAMINI: Is your wife here?

WITNESS:   No, she was working today, she couldn't come here.

MR DLAMINI: It is clear that this matter has affected you in your life.  How is your wife at the present moment?

WITNESS:  She is not well actually.  Since from the beginning of all this she has BP.  She has been to hospital for several times.  Even she is losing her sense of hearing, because there was once some shooting at home, and there was a loud noise.  It might be because of the effects of the noise.

MR DLAMINI: Does she visit some doctors to help her with the sickness of BP?

WITNESS:   Yes, she normally goes to Greys Hospital.

MR DLAMINI: Did she ever go to psychologists or psychiatrists for treatment?

WITNESS:   No.

MR DLAMINI: What about yourself?  I know men are strong, but this was a painful situation.  How do you feel?

WITNESS:   I feel the Lord have helped me because I have been able to stand up.  Even if I was affected by the gun sounds at the time they shot at my place but I don't have big problems, I am still okay.

MR DLAMINI: Are you still staying at Imbali?