Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-19

MR POTGIETER: Our next witness is Colonel Chris Nel and I call him to the podium please.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

MR POTGIETER: Now by way of introduction in September of 1992, at the time when this incident happened, you were the head of the Ciskei Military Intelligence, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chair unfortunately I don't know on which information the Commission acted, I was not the Chief of Military Intelligence at that stage in Ciskei.  The Chief of Military Intelligence at that stage was a Mr Ockert Swanepoel and I was involved in intelligence collection as part of that section, but he was the chief.

MR POTGIETER: The erstwhile military leader of Ciskei, Brigadier Gqozo testified this morning and in his testimony he also refers to you as the former head of Ciskei Military Intelligence, Colonel Chris Nel, so I am a bit puzzled, you are saying that he's wrong?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chair yes, I think the dates involved he might have confused it.  According to one of the documents that he handed in to the Commission you will see that a planning meeting that was held prior to the Bisho incident a Mr Swanepoel's name appears on that as a representative.  I was not the senior of Intelligence, Mr Swanepoel was.  Mr Swanepoel left the Ciskei in December 1992 and I became the head of Intelligence in 1993.

MR POTGIETER: What exactly was your position in September of 1992?

UNKNOWN: September 1992 I was doing intelligence collection work for the Ciskei Defence Force intelligence section.

MR POTGIETER: So you were doing intelligence collection work, and - what portfolio did you hold?  I mean were you the deputy head or what were you?

UNKNOWN: Ja, although not formerly appointed as a deputy head I was assistant director on my appointment letter, and I interpreted that to be the deputy.

MR POTGIETER: So you were the deputy head of the Ciskei Military Intelligence under the command of Ockert Swanepoel, what was his rank?

UNKNOWN: Before he came to the Ciskei Defence Force he was a lieutenant colonel.

MR POTGIETER: Lieutenant colonel.

UNKNOWN: Ja.

MR POTGIETER: Now were you seconded from South Africa or how did you get the appointment as the deputy head of Military Intelligence?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chair I was not seconded from the South African Defence Force, I was a former member of the South African Defence Force, I was requested from the Bophuthatswana Defence Force to come and work for the Ciskei.

MR POTGIETER: So when exactly did you start with the Ciskei Defence Force?

UNKNOWN: I started in October 1991, I was appointed in the Ciskei Defence Force.

MR POTGIETER: And as from that appointment you held this position as deputy under Ockert Swanepoel?

UNKNOWN: That is correct until the end of 1992, the beginning of 1993.

MR POTGIETER: Swanepoel left you said in December of 1992 and then you became the head as from 1993 or sometime in December or what happened?

UNKNOWN: If I can remember the date correctly Swanepoel left on the 4th of December 1992 and I was formerly appointed 1st of January 1993.

MR POTGIETER: 1st of January 1993.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you.  I just wanted to clarify the position by way of introduction, but what I want to ask you to do, you have been approached to assist the Commission in regard to the incident on the 7th of September 1992 and what led up to that incident and that's really what I want you to focus on, so I will leave you to take us through whatever submission you want to make in that regard.  Thank you.