Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-11

MR BOOYENS: Prior to the arrest of Mr Biko and Mr Jones, were any other persons arrested?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: And were they interrogated in terms of the determinations of Article 6 of the then Act against terrorism?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: You made mention of the struggle between the security forces and, particularly, the security branch on the one hand and the Black power liberation organisations on the other hand.  Of course, there were other organisations also, but less important in the struggle?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: What would the perceptions have been concerning the situation at that time?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Your Honour, the general conception and interpretation, at that time, had been with reference already to the total onslaught against South Africa, at that time.

MR BOOYENS: You know this was the rhetoric of P W Botha at a later time, was that specific term used?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, in the intelligence community it was mentioned by name.  We must remember that before this, the South African Police performed border service in Rhodesia, the now Zimbabwe, in order to support them as one of the last colonial powers adjoining South Africa, bordering on South Africa.  I think of the support offered to or by liberation or freedom fighters from South Africa in that situation.  The efforts of the South African Defence Force in Namibia into Angola at that time, the combating of terrorism by the South African Police in the then South West, now Namibia, since already 1962, the then attacks, terror, acts of terror of 1966, particularly during the month of November at the border gate when two MK members of the ANC were arrested and two police officers were injured.  I believe they died but I am not sure whether they in fact died in consequence of that event.  I think of the explosion at the Carlton Centre in Johannesburg, also during November and then in December, the Solomon Mahlangu attack in Johannesburg where people were, in fact, shot dead.
	With this in the background and in view of the unrest, the foreign opposition already growing at that time, this would be considered to have been a total onslaught at that time and it was referred to as such from head office and in our ranks.

MR BOOYENS: Later on this became a little piece of political rhetoric?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: If you could look at the last two paragraphs of your personal overview and place this on record.

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: "At that time I was of the opinion that the
continued survival of White people in South Africa could be directly linked to the then Government remaining in power.  I was of the opinion that should the organisations such as the ANC ..."
and I would like to add to this the PAC and the Black power organisations,
"... should they become the Government in South Africa, that this would lead to total anarchy and chaos which would no longer allow me to maintain my way of life that I had become use to.  I was, as a consequence of the opinion that the security branch had the responsibility to assist in ensuring that the then Government order could be maintained in order to help maintain the common civilised Western standards to which people in South Africa had become use.
		In view of the fact that we were engaged in an undeclared war with the so-called liberation movements or organisations and in view of the support offered to the security branch from both political, church and cultural circles, I was convinced that the then Government status quo had to be maintained at all costs."

MR BOOYENS: You used the phrase "undeclared war".  Is this your own term or was this a term that was bandied about and generally and commonly used at the time.

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Your Honour, this was a term which was often used in language in the intelligence community.

MR BOOYENS: This would also have been the language of your head office or would this have been only in the ranks?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: No, also from the head office and also during training courses and in information documents.

MR BOOYENS: Would you confirm the correctness as added to of your statement in the application of your own convictions and circumstances?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: This political background of yours, did this make you feel at home in the security community?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did this play any role in your actions as a security policeman?  Did you experience coherence between your convictions and actions?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Was your personal convictions or faith also coherent with the instructions you received as a security police officer?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Okay, then you are applying for amnesty with view to the assault on and death of Steven Bantu Biko, is that correct?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: The date, sixth September, this was the date of assault.  We know that he died at a slightly later date?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Namely on the 12th.  The events occurred in Port Elizabeth.  Is that correct?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: If we look at the particulars of the event, let us work through this.  This is on page four of the application.  During 1977 you had the rank of Captain.  In which section of the South African Police did you then serve?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: I was then involved in the unit that dealt with Coloured and Asian affairs.

MR BOOYENS: As what?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: As a field worker and as the second-in-command of the unit.

MR BOOYENS: Major Snyman would have been your direct Commanding Officer?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: We are aware of the fact that Mr Biko was, in fact, a Black power man.  He would have been dealt with, with the desk that dealt with Black affairs.  Is that correct?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: How did it come about that you, as members of the so-called Coloured and Asian desk, became involved in the interrogation of Mr Biko?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: This was due to the fact that Mr Jones, who was a Coloured person, was arrested with Mr Biko and we had to deal with his arrest, detention and interrogation.

MR BOOYENS: Prior to this date, did you have any personal contact with Mr Biko?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: No, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you, to the best of your memory, ever meet with him before you collected him at New Brighton?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: No, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you have anything to do, my apologies, this was Walmer Police Station where you collected him.

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you have anything to do with his detention or the manner of his detention?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: No, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Just as a matter of interest, did you have anything to do with the detention of Mr Jones and the manner in which he was detained?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you give any instructions?  We have heard that he was kept awake, that he did not have the opportunity to sleep well whilst at the police station.

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: No, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you take part in any interrogation of Mr Jones?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Was he interrogated before Mr Biko?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Did you, for the first time, meet the deceased on the sixth of September?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: As you have already said to us, you were well aware of his stature?

DANIEL PETRUS SIEBERT: Yes, your Honour.