Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

MEMBER OF PANEL: Isn't it so that at the time when Leabua Jonathan, there was harmony between the ANC and the Lesotho government and then that changed when the military forces came into power.

MR MAFO: Yes, Mr Commissioner, that is right.  During Leabua's rule, even though they didn't seem like they don't know what is going on, but things were quite bitter when the military came into power.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Isn't it true that Lesotho soldiers were co-operating fully and very clearly with the boers? Especially the security forces of South Africa.

MR MAFO: I would say that very clearly, without any hesitation that that is correct.

MEMBER OF PANEL: And the enemies to the boers ... (END OF TAPE 2 - SIDE A).

MR MAFO: When the military government took over in Lesotho, at the beginning of 1986, there was a document with a list of names, that these people must take a plane and go to Lusaka. UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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ne of the names was his name, that is one of the reasons why he now was being looked after. I was also told that I must leave Lesotho.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Before that happened, do you know Dugard?

MR MAFO: The Whites usually say that he has more lives than a cat.

MEMBER OF PANEL: There is something else here in the Transkei that was being talked about. It shocked the whole country, especially about Mbilo, when he was attacked at Willowvale.  Do you know anything about that?

MR MAFO: Yes, I had knowledge about this.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Could you please elaborate on this attack?

MR MAFO: It is said on a certain day the Transkeian police, together with the South African Defence force, and certain members of the South African police and dogs, I mean dogs with four legs now.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Not the dogs that we usually sing about?

MR MAFO: No, not those dogs.   They went to Umvili Nogono, the one known as KK. They went to him at Willowvale in Mr Jafta's shop.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Is Mr Jafta the one who is sitting here with the white jacket?  Could you please, Mr Jafta, stand up?

MR MAFO: That's him exactly.  It is said now these men came very early in the morning, around five o'clock in the morning. They knocked in the big house where the old man was asleep.  When he opened the door, when he looked out, there are so many policemen, they were all armed. He asked what is going on, what is the problem.  They said we are looking for your son, Boy, and Umvili Nogono, the one called KK, where are they?  Show us.  The other one said yes, Boy is here,
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but I don't know where Umvili Nogono is here  I know he usually comes here with Boy, but I don't know if he is here today.  So he led them.  They went into the house that they were sleeping in.  He pointed at them, he said here is his house that they usually sleep in.  Then Mr Jafta said that is when now the bullets started to be shot.  KK got out.  H was running.  He went into the garden.  The garden is situated right at the back of the houses and there was long grass in that garden.  Apparently that was the beginning of the battle which lasted for 36 hours between Umvili Nongono, known as KK and these policemen and their soldiers from South Africa and from the Transkei.  
 I don't know the gentleman next to me, if he has anything to say about this.  I don't know.

MEMBER OF PANEL: No, it is all right, leave him alone.  We just want to know more about Umvilo.  How did Umvilo get to Lesotho and how did he meet KK?

MR MAFO: The story goes like this.  I won't go into much detail. He has already mentioned all the things that I was going to say.  When we got to Lesotho it was apparent that we were supposed to meet in Lesotho, and this happened on the 27th of January, if I can remember this well, in 1987.  That is how we went to Lesotho.  Up to March in 1988.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntsiki Sandi?

ADV SANDI: I will direct my question to Mr Maqekeza.  My question is a part.  You were arrested in 1987.  You said you were detained in 1987 by the Transkeian police and you were locked up, interrogated.  Amongst them were the South African, the Republic of South African Police.  They were from East London. Now what I want to know from you is, as
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you have said that you have also been assaulted during the interrogation, did the East London police, did they also assault you?

DUGARD ZWELEDINGE MAQEKEZA: No, these White men didn't do anything.  They were just asking me nicely, please tell the truth.

ADV SANDI: Now if I remember well, at the time the Transkei had already had its independence from the Republic of South Africa.   Didn't that make you wonder to find out now that when you have been arrested by the police of the Republic of Transkei but yet there would also be policemen from the Republic of another country, the Republic of South Africa, also trying to investigate from you.  Didn't that make you wonder?

DUGARD ZWELEDINGE MAQEKEZA: Oh, yes, I wondered quite a lot, but I didn't have a chance to ask questions about that.

ADV SANDI: Seeing that you know very well that the aim of the Commission is to get a clear picture, and a full picture, of what really happened during that time; what I want to find out from you is, was this something that was usual and common, that if a person has been arrested and things like this were being investigated, was it now common to have policemen from the Republic of South Africa?

DUGARD ZWELEDINGE MAQEKEZA: Some of my inmates used to say that yes, policemen from the Republic of South Africa used to come and ask them questions.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Tiny Maya?

MS MAYA: Thank you, Reverend.  Like Yusu, I am going to direct this to you. Could you please tell us more - you said when Umbikaya was in hospital, was on guard by the Lesotho policemen, is that so?
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MR MAFO: Yes, that is correct.  When somebody, by the time somebody opened the window, there were police still guardin him. Is that correct?

MR MAFO: Let me explain this as follows, exactly as it happened.  They changed this bed right in the evening.  There was another person who used to sleep next to the window, but these beds were now swopped. He had now asked why are you swopping the beds.  But even the policemen who were guarding him didn't take care of that.  When this all happened, the guards were looking on.  They simply ignored it. This is how this happened.  So obviously they all collaborated on this, they just pretended that they don't see this.  Because the person shot beyond the curtain and he knew that he was not going to miss him.

MS MAYA: Was there any investigation done, even from Lesotho or here at home about his death?

MR MAFO: The investigation that happened was an attempted murder on the person who he swopped the beds with.  They were not investigating about the death of this man.

MS MAYA: Was that the end of it?

MR MAFO: I think there was another lawyer from South Africa that tried to investigate.

MS MAYA: What happened to that lawyer?

MR MAFO: We did put forward the case to Mr Mulava, he is still alive.  But when we tried to ask more about the developments of the case he said no, he couldn't get any co-operation from the Lesotho authorities and that's how the case ended up.

MS MAYA: Thank you.