Human Rights Violation Hearings — Witbank — 1997-06-05

UNKNOWN: To-day, we look back at the history of our struggle.  We look back at the cost and the immense suffering that our struggle entailed.  We look at the present successors but also we look back at the human cost, the ordinary people who made our struggle develop.  The Bethal trial was a reflection in most measures of the struggle of our people.  It came about because the African people refused to accept that they had to live with oppression, with injustices, with racial discrimination and to be discriminated upon and live with all the things which were intended to make them feel sub-human.
 I've referred to the question that in a sense, the trial was prismatic.  It was something that took place in an isolated place and yet it reflected so much.  There was a totality of things that were reflected generally.  May I at this stage also say that while I may be giving the general view of the Bethal trial, I've had the chance to consult with some of my co-accused, those that are still alive and they have shown an interest to give an account of their particular experiences, particularly they type of torture they had to endure.  It's difficult for somebody to give an account of the experiences of someone else and also in the case of families like the Motopeng family, had to endure a lot.  The Sebukwe's too.  There is a perception that only Sir Robert Sebukwe was affected.  People forgot that Mrs Robeiro was his sister and Doctor Ferdinand Robeiro was his brother-in-law so it places a lot of stress on that family because the perception is simply that it seems these are occurrences that are quite unrelated and quite different.  
 For this reason I feel that it would be advisable, I don't know whether this is the correct word to use, that the Commission give those that are in a position to come forward, a chance to give an account as to why it happened.  You ended up being an accused in the Bethal trial simply because you refused to break down.  You refused to succumb to the immense torture in form of isolation, interrogation, the pain that was inflicted and in some cases even death.  
 I've tried to list some of our Comrades who died during the situation leading up to the trial.  Some of them were staying in the same sections, people like Sam Malinga, ......... was taken in for interrogation.  He looked very looked very blithe in a situation where many people couldn't even afford to smile but he was one of the rare people whose smile I can remember to this day.   Hardly a week later we heard that Sam Malinga has committed suicide in detention.  
 Aron Xhosa, it was said he also committed suicide in detention but you know, it's a funny thing because Aron's cell was in the old jail in Pietermaritzburg, the floor was a wooden floor so one could easily hear footsteps.  You were able to distinguish whether it was a warder coming or somebody else coming because of your isolation he hear nothing.  The little sounds you hear, maybe that animal like ...(indistinct)   
 Then on that certain night there was this heavy shuffling and somebody was either carrying a bag or something heavy up the stairs, past the passage and in the morning we heard a shout through the window, the term that we used because of the situation, was a code-name for Freedom Fighters.  We used to refer to Freedom Fighters as horses, Amahashe.  If ever there was reference to a horse, a racing horse then we knew that it was a Freedom Fighter.  Somebody shouted through a window and said, I think it was Moses Masemala, he said that a horse is dead in the cell.  Apparently he was told by one of the cleaners.  
 May I mention that a few days later, in the reception office of the prison, there was a heated confrontation between warders and security police.  These warders were saying that, to take any prisoner out of this place, you have to ensure that you comply with the requirements of the prison service, you cannot just take prisoners out of the prison complex and away, without any record being kept.  This was just a few days after the death of Aron Xhosa.  One can go on.  
 We have the case of Wyembibi Mnzizi whose photograph has a very chilling reflection, hanging in the toilet, his feet below the bowl between the cistern, with a rope around his neck, his toes touching the floor and yet he had committed suicide.  Somehow those who were supposed to look into these issues did not perhaps feel fit to be more questioning, to be more circumspect and to be more critical of the methods that the police used against detainees.  
 When we went to Bethal, eighteen of us were tried.  We had a list, an even bigger list of what you call co-conspirators.  The first accused was the late Zef Motobini and amongst the co-conspirators, the first was the late President Robert Sebukwe.   The late .................... who was then on the Defence Council asked, this is not funny, here you have the President of the one organization.  He's the first co-conspirator.  This trial centers around this man and yet you are not, he's not being charged, why?  And indeed, that was a big question but later we came to know why because Sebukwe did not have much longer to live.  Maybe the feeling was that if he's charged and convicted, he will then die in prison and perhaps become a martyr or become the responsibility of the prison department or of the Government of the day.  
 That's one possible reason why but to this day one cannot really answer this question and more so you noted that somewhere I make a submission on the role of the judiciary, the conduct of the judiciary.  In our case, at the end of the trial, I think none of us was really interested in what was happening on the bench.  When sentence was passed, judgement day, another concern was whether any death sentences were going to be imposed or not.  Not that we'll have acquittals or there are certain changes on the basis of the evidence that had been given.  
 There was no voluntary participation on the question of those who gave evidence for the State.  Firstly, these people had been seriously assaulted and we knew that.  We know of cases of people who were made to spend some time in a mortuary where there were corpses of motor car accident victims and these people were being brought to testify, even against their spouses.  The court gave a ruling that, that witness could give evidence against her own spouse.  That stood.  We were tried far away from our homes and the question was, why is it that we are being, our trial is being conducted so far away.  Was it that we did not have facilities in Pretoria where the majority of the accused were?  We were also interrogated very far away from our homes.  If during interrogation maybe they pick up that there was a pamphlet, a PAC pamphlet somewhere in Attridgeville a car would be given and they would drive all the way from Pietermaritzburg to Pretoria to pick up that one-page pamphlet and bring it back to Pietermaritzburg.  
 The people who were assembled there were referred to as a team and amongst them were those who were called the PAC team, you have the ANC team because they were specialists in torturing and in dealing with members of the different organizations, particularly members of the PAC as it was facing us that time.   I noticed that some of the names of the people who were part of the interrogating team have featured in other incidences, like the Vlakplaas incident and so forth.  It was not surprising that their names popped up there.  These men were sort of way above the law.  They were way above anything in terms of authority.  They felt that they ruled the roost.  They determined what happens to you, virtually they do not make it a secret that your life was in their hands.  To survive you simply had to do as they expected you to do.  It was not surprising that when we went and appeared in court, the first thing that was done was,  the State asked for the proceedings to be held "in camera."  
 Now we were being interrogated far away from our homes, incognito and some of us were not even informed about .............. deaths in their families.  I know of Comrade Ben Ntwele.  He was not informed about his mother's death and similarly we were try ... (tape ended)