Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MS HASSEN: Mr Chair, I just want to put one little question to Mr Ikaneng.
 Mrs Ikaneng, I just want to put one aspect to you to clarify it.  I represent Charles Zwane who is also known as Charles Bobo and I just want to put it to you that he was acquitted from the murder Xola Makahula and he had no part really in putting the body together, he in fact did not enter into the room in Zola.  Can I confirm this?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, we were with him in Zola.

MS HASSEN: Yes, I do know that you were with him in Zola but that he was acquitted for this murder of Xola Makahula, do you know of this?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Who's Xola Makahula?

MS HASSEN: The incident that you went to Zola for, the one that you just gave the Commission evidence about earlier in your statement.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I wouldn't know whether he was found guilty or not, I never attended the court case.

MS HASSEN: Thank you Mr Chair, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I was just thinking that this time round Mr Richard would be missing.  Yes?

MR UNTERHALTER: David Unterhalter for the Chili family.  May I ask you two questions, firstly did Sizwe Sithole have a brother named Samele?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, they are related but I don't know how they are related.

MR UNTERHALTER: Then can I ask you about an incident in February 1989 which has already been referred to, where a man by the name of Todo came to inform you that a decision had been taken about actions to be taken against yourself and Sibusiso Chili, can you tell us what was told to you as far as that's concerned?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Todo came to my place - in fact at a shebeen which was Nshlonga's place, and he told us the decision that Sibusiso and I had to be killed and I was surprised as to how Todo got to know about this and why was Sibusiso one of the targets to be killed.  I instructed Todo to go and tell Sibusiso and he left me there at the shebeen.

MR UNTERHALTER: Whose decision was this?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: He told me that the decision was taken at the offices - that is Winnie's offices.

MR UNTERHALTER: Did he say whether Mrs Mandela knew of the decision or had taken the decision?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, he did not really specify as to who in particular took the decision, I'm not clear as to who instructed them to do that.

MR UNTERHALTER: Do you know whether any attack was then carried out on Sibusiso?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: If I'm not mistaken, the following day I heard Sponge was fighting with other members and I went to check as to what was happening.  When I got there I could see somebody being pelted with stones and he was lying on the ground.

MR UNTERHALTER: And was that Mr Madondo?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That is correct.

MR UNTERHALTER: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Richard?

PATRICIA JANE KLAPP: Thank you Chairperson.
 Sir, is it not correct that in 1987 after your release from detention, you were brought before the Disciplinary Committee on the basis that Sizwe Sithole and Ronnie Sekekune felt that your behaviour was irresponsible and led to breaches of security of the soccer team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, that's not true.

MR RICHARD: And there were no allegations from them that you took too long to go to the shops and that sometimes you refused to report to Mrs Mandela's home?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Could you please repeat your question?

MR RICHARD: I'm putting a version that I have before me to you and the version is that in 1987 after you were released, you were taken before this Disciplinary Committee meant to deal with internal problems and the accusations against you were - amongst other things, you stayed away without accounting for your movements, you didn't report and those allegations were made by Sizwe and Ronnie who in fact chaired the Disciplinary Hearing.  Do you know anything about it, yes or no?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: These were things that happened after I was released from detention.

MR RICHARD: Anytime during 1987?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, during 1988 before the house was burnt down.

MR RICHARD: Yes, before the house was burnt down.   But you say these things happened but not in '87 but in '88?  The date's wrong?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, during 1988.

MR RICHARD: And these are - I'm rushing, these are evidence that the relationship between you on one hand and the Sizwe Sithole and Ronnie Sekekune site factions were not to good, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true but particularly with Sizwe Sithole - we were in good terms with Ronnie Sekekune.

MR RICHARD: I might be going too fast and making mistakes but bear with me.  The long and the short was that, certainly Sizwe Sithole felt that you did not heed the warnings given to you and he complained further that you were a regular visitor to Mrs Dudu Chili's home.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR RICHARD: And indeed when Mr Richardson says
"Mrs Chili was seen by Mrs Mandela and by the team, to be an opponent of Mrs Mandela"
That was the feeling amongst the team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I did not know anything about that.

MR RICHARD: Is it not correct that one day you stole a gun from the Mayor of Soweto?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, the Mayor of Soweto was disarmed by certain comrades.

MR RICHARD: And you weren't part of them.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, I wasn't, I only arrived at a later stage.

MR RICHARD: And - again I'm not cross-examining properly, I'm skimming a question a page.

CHAIRPERSON: That is up to you and all I know is that I've given you five minutes and how you use it is up to you, what you have left is one minute.

MR RICHARD: Mr Chair, in an ordinary court I would be greatly remiss if I didn't argue further but I shall not.
 Did you ever plan to kill anyone in the team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No.

MR RICHARD: You never had a feeling of ill-will towards my client Mr Richardson?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No.

MR RICHARD: When Mr Richardson and the others found you - according to the version before me, you were near the Imzimshlope hostel, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, not Imzimshlope hostel, in the location - the residential area,  not the hostel.

MR RICHARD: But how far from the hostel?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, it's quite a distance.

MR RICHARD: And then to conclude, you were taken by force and an attempt was made on your life.  How long is the scar on your neck, is it 4, 5cm or 8, 10cm?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, I can't say.

MR RICHARD: Indicate by showing on your hand - this long, that long?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I think this long.

MR RICHARD: I would say that's 4,5,6,7cm.  How long is that?  I'd say it's 5cm.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I don't know.

MR RICHARD: When they attempted to stab you ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: You are not surprised that the one minute is so long?

MR RICHARD: I am surprised, I'm stretching my luck.
 When you were attacked, did they use the shear in a cutting motion or a stabbing motion?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: He pressed it against my throat, I think it was in a stabbing motion.  He did not cut but he stabbed and pressed very hard for the shear to penetrate.

MR RICHARD: Thank you Chair, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Doctor Fazel?