Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-17

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson, thank you.  Mr Mvijane, in actual fact at which standard did you leave school?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Standard six.

MR MAPOMA: Is it not correct that in court, in the criminal court, for the murder of the deceased person in this matter you said that you left standard two?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, that is correct, I did say that, because whatever I was saying in court was not true.  I was telling lies in court.  And I was even denying the crime or the offence itself.

MR MAPOMA: I understand that, but why did you - what was the reason for you to lie and say you left at standard two and not standard six?  For that particular lying, what was the reason?  What was the reason?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: All in all I was denying the statement that I had made to the Chief Magistrate, because what was said to me or the question that was posed to me was whether I could read.  In order to be able to avoid the statement or the Chief Magistrate's statement, I said I had got out of school at standard two level.  I was avoiding the statement or being accused of having been able to read the statement that I submitted before.

MR MAPOMA: Now, you have told the Committee that before you were recruited by Moss you were an ordinary member of the PAC.  Do you remember that?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, I never said that.  I never said I was a member of the PAC.  I was a supporter, but not a card carrying member.

MR MAPOMA: Okay, thank you.  I'm sorry, I made a mistake there.  And as a supporter of the PAC you were a gangster, is that correct?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: When I grew up I was a delinquent or a problematic child.  That I cannot deny.

MR MAPOMA: Are you saying you were both a gangster, yet a supporter of the PAC?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is not correct.  I was a member of the gangster.  I wished to support the PAC, but at that time I was mainly concentrating on criminal activities.  I didn't know much about the PAC at that stage.

MR MAPOMA: What did you mean when you said you were not interested in politics when you met Moss whereas you were a PAC supporter?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I did not say I was not interested in politics, but what I explained to Moss was that I was not involved in any political group at that stage, but I had a desire to be a member of the PAC.  That is what I said.

MR MAPOMA: Now, when you shot the deceased, were you instructed by any PAC member to do that?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: As I had already explained before, that was my duty.  I had already been told to identify the enemies who were oppressing the Africans and killing them.  So, I was a soldier and I was carrying out my duty.  When we saw this traffic officer we discussed it amongst ourselves with Doctor, that here is the target, now all that is left with us is to carry the duty.  We got the traffic officer and explained to the traffic officer or told him not to move.  We wanted his gun.  But what made me shoot him was that his hand was rushing to his pocket and I realised that the was going to shoot first.

MR MAPOMA: Were you a member of APLA?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: When did you join APLA?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: During 1991, even though I'm not sure as to the date or the month.

MR MAPOMA: Who was your commander in APLA?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: The one I was receiving instructions from was Moss.  He was a cadre, but I'm not sure as to his surname and his other names.

MR MAPOMA: And you say Moss is the commander from whom you take all the orders?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: That is correct.

MR MAPOMA: But you were not instructed by Moss to kill the deceased, is that so?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I've already explained it, that I had been given instructions before that we should identify enemies.  That was my primary duty as a soldier of the PAC or APLA, that I should identify these people.  These were soldiers, traffic officers, as well as police who were working with the previous system.  That's why when I saw this traffic officer I identified him as a target.  I attacked him.  I explained that before.

MR MAPOMA: No, what I want to understand, let me make this clear to you.  I understand that APLA had a policy to attack certain targets, but what I want to find out from you, were you instructed by Moss specifically to kill the deceased?  Remember you said that you were carrying - all orders which you were carrying you received from Moss as an APLA trained cadre and you were not instructed by Moss to go and kill the deceased.  What is your explanation to that?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I will repeat myself, I've said it before that anyone who works under or supported the previous Government, that is the police, the traffic officers, the soldiers were enemies to the PAC.  So when I identified a traffic officer I decided that we should attack him and retrieve his gun.

MR MAPOMA: Naturally the deceased was not the first policeman for you to see, isn't it so?

MR MAPOMA: At that time he was the first person that we met who supported the previous regime.

MR MAPOMA: No, no, what I'm saying is that after you received your orders from Moss the deceased was not the first policeman for you to see.  You had seen other policemen, you have not killed them.  If you are saying what you did was a carrying out of a general order from Moss, why did you kill this one?  He was not the first person for you to see, he was not the first policeman for you to see.

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I'll explain in this manner.  Anyone who was working under the previous Government, when I was accompanying Doctor this very person that we are referring to or the deceased is the first person that I saw that we identified as the target, that is the traffic officer.

MR MAPOMA: Prior to the killing of the deceased, did you ever stop your acts of gangsterism?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I was no longer involved in any criminal activities.  I shed the friends that I had who were members of the gangster when I joined the PAC and we led totally separate lives thereafter.

MR MAPOMA: Which year did you stop gangsterism?  When exactly did you stop the acts?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: The very same year, that is 1991 when Moss spoke to me about stopping my gangster activities, because he said to me I should try by all means to stop the criminal acts because they were leading me astray, the other gang members.

MR MAPOMA: And do you confirm that at the time when you killed the deceased you were standing charged for rape?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: No, the charges that I spoke about before, that is the two rape counts, were all in the past.  They had nothing to do with that particular time frame and period in which Moss and I were involved.

MR MAPOMA: Who actually shot the deceased?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I did.

MR MAPOMA: Would you turn to page two of the bundle there.  In the paragraph that appears as the first paragraph there, that is paragraph (iv), you say there
"Doctor of Zone 6, Umgaba, a fellow activist together, where jumping a street and we met this traffic cop at about seven in the morning."
You go on to say, and I quote:
"Doctor shot this traffic cop with my consent."
And then you carry on.  Why do you tell this Committee today that you shot the deceased whereas you told this Committee in your application form that Doctor shot the deceased?  Which one is the truth?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: I did.  All that is written in here I think there's a mistake from the person who was filling in my application.  I explained to him that I shot and Doctor retrieved or took the gun.

MR MAPOMA: Who completed this application form?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: David.

MR MAPOMA: David who?