Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-05

WITNESS:   While I was there on that particular day, I found that they were looking for me for some time and didn't find me and on that specific day when they found me, it was the day of departure and they said to me, "Madlanduna(?), we're lucky to find you today, because we wanted you to take the first group which is going for training".  They took me to one camp by the name of Nhlumgwane.  This is a place which is used by the Inkatha Development Corporation.  When I arrived there I found there were some other people for some weeks, they have been there for some weeks and I was introduced to the leadership in that area of the IFP.  People whom I still remember who were present, it was Musa Zondi, Mtwe Mafule, Sibanda and others whom I don't remember, but they were all IFP members.  And they also shown me the other young men who were there and also to see whether they were fit for the training, so I went around looking at them and I give them the assurance that they seem to be fit for the training.

MR MACADAM: Did you have any position or title at that stage in connection with this enterprise?

WITNESS:   I was given the position of a Political Commissar.

MR MACADAM: /At

MR MACADAM: 2A At what stage?

WITNESS:   It was given to me the moment when I arrived at the IFP office in Ulundi by M Z Khumalo and the other two men whom I have already mentioned.

MR MACADAM: And was it explained to you what duties this Political Commissar would perform or not?

WITNESS:   As we were in the office, people who were MP soldiers were two, it's myself and Cedric(?) Bhengu(?), because the structure that we had to build was supposed to be ... (inaudible) ... and look they're ANC structures which were operating at the time.  A Commissar, a Political Commissar is a person who is supposed to give orders and a person who represent an organisation in that particular military wing.  In other words he is the eyes and the ears of the organisation.  He is the one who is responsible that if the trainees loses the spirit and have to give them the inspiration to gain their spirits.

MR MACADAM: Any other duties that you had to perform?

WITNESS:   No.

MR MACADAM: And is it correct that at a certain stage you and certain of these persons who had been selected were taken away from that area into a place where some form of training was received?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MACADAM: Can you describe to the Commission firstly if you know where that place was?

WITNESS:   I discovered later that it was Caprivi in South West Africa.

MR MACADAM: And at that stage, did you have any idea where you were going to?

WITNESS:   No.

MR MACADAM: And who was in charge of the place that you were taken to?

WITNESS:   It was under the South African Defence Force.

MR MACADAM: How did you find that out?

WITNESS:   As a commander I

MR MACADAM: /worked

MR MACADAM: 2A worked closely with the instructors in that area.  At a certain time they had to tell me the truth as to what was happening there and also as to where we went(?) and also as to what we came there to do.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... any specific individual giving that explanation to you, or not?

WITNESS:   The first person I met was Commander - whom we used to call JJ, because they didn't use their real names.

MR MACADAM: The person who explained - you said that at a later stage it was explained to you what the true purpose of the training was?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MACADAM: Who explained that to you?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was Commander JJ.

MR MACADAM: Can you recall what exactly what he explained to you, or not?

WITNESS:   I still remember.  He said to me that there were a private company employed by the IFP to train the soldiers and the training was supposed to take six months and I was told that others are still coming, those were instructors who were coming to help.

MR MACADAM: And you yourself, what did you believe?  When you accompanied the group to this base, what did you believe was going to be achieved?

WITNESS:   I thought that as they were taken to that place they were going to be converted into a military of the IFP, so I had to go with these people there to be trained to be soldiers.

MR MACADAM: As far as you perceived, was there anybody against whom these soldiers would ever be deployed, or not?

INTERPRETER: May you please repeat your question?

MR MACADAM: As far as you yourself believed, was there any enemy against whom these soldiers would be deployed once they had been trained?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was.

MR MACADAM: /Who

MR MACADAM: 2A Who was that?

WITNESS:   It was the ANC.

MR MACADAM: And before you left to proceed to this camp, were you given any instructions by any person as to what form the training should take?  That is before you left?

WITNESS:  Yes, it is correct, I have already mentioned that.  I got that from the IFP offices in Ulundi from Mr M Z Khumalo.

MR MACADAM: And what were those instructions?

WITNESS:   It was that the IFP have reached a stage where it needs to construct its own military wing, because the ANC now recognised - then recognises the IFP as an enemy, therefore they had to devise a means to protect themselves.

MR MACADAM: And if you can now describe to us, did you play any role yourself in the training that the persons received at that camp?

WITNESS:   I can say yes and no, because the company which was training the people, it was a private company which I have mentioned that JJ was its commander.  My work was just to oversee as to whether the necessary training required to ... (inaudible) ... being followed and there is conformance(?) and had to help just here and there where there was a need to help in order for them to get the inspiration and determination, I mean the trainees.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... describe briefly what form this training took?

WITNESS:   It went well.  They covered everything necessary and they were trained - from ... (inaudible) ... training to be soldiers.

MR MACADAM: And could you tell us in more detail what are the aspects they were trained in?

WITNESS:   When they arrived there were 200 men and there were about six or eight men who were cookers, who were never involved or got trained.

MR MACADAM: /Amongst