Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Yes but the dates had been changed to the 24th February, now not the 24th March, you confirm that?

UNKNOWN: 24th February - to the 24th February, yes I confirm that.

CHAIRPERSON: Do carry on.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, the date of the 24th February as appears in EXHIBIT AI page 2, you say it was indeed a normal sitting of the Town Council, is it not so?

UNKNOWN: Yes it was a Town Council Meeting.

MR MALENDI: And you say the meeting of the election of the Mayor was on which date, 10 March 1993?

UNKNOWN: It was not on the 24th February but in fact on the 10th March.  Yes.

MR MALENDI: And the 10th March was the election of the Mayor?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR MALENDI: And if I understand your evidence well, you say that meeting started at 16H00 at four in the afternoon, is it not so?  The meeting of the 10th March started at four in the afternoon?

UNKNOWN: The 24th - usually they began at approximately four o'clock but if it wasn't going to be a lengthy meeting they would start a little later.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt if you like at page 3 of that EXHIBIT AI - if I understood your evidence as you were giving it now, here, you said the meeting of the 10th March started at four in the afternoon, is it so?

UNKNOWN: According to this exhibit, it began at 18H00 and that would have been six o'clock.  I've said that usually at four, perhaps a little bit later, but from this it began at six o'clock that evening.

MR MALENDI: Till what time do you say the meeting lasted?

UNKNOWN: Until approximately 8 o'clock because I arrived at home after eight and the prayer hour had finished.

MR MALENDI: What time did you get home after this meeting do you remember?

MR PRINSLOO: He has just stated approximately eight o'clock.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, your wife Mrs Du Randt gave evidence here and placed the date of the 24th and the date of the 25th in relation to the birthday of your daughter which was on the 29th February and she was certain that this incident took place before her daughter's birthday.  Is that how you remember it or not?

UNKNOWN: I recall that they discussed it but it was incorrect, her birthday was on the 29th February.

MR MALENDI: The incident took place not before the 29th but after the 29th?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: What date did you say the birthday of the daughter was?

MR MALENDI: The birthday of the daughter was on the 29th February.

UNKNOWN: She is a leap year baby, I don't recall whether that year had a 29th February.

JUDGE WILSON: It didn't.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt when you left your meeting, the Town Council Meeting, did you manage to get to the prayer hour which is held every Wednesday at the church next to your house?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Chairperson, if the Committee will bear with me for a second.  Mr Du Randt could you please look at page 1 of your statement, paragraph 5.  Could you please read paragraph 5 onto the record?

UNKNOWN: "Mr Lewis said to me during the meeting that someone would be delivering a jersey to my house, he didn't tell me who would be delivering it but said that he would collect it.  The meeting adjourned at approximately 19H00 for tea and after that I went home in order to attend our prayer hour.  I joined the prayer hour at 19H30 hours and they had already commenced.  The prayer hour finished at approximately 20H30 and my wife and I went back home then."

MR MALENDI: And Mr Du Randt, the reading of that paragraph means that when you arrived the prayer hour was not over yet, you joined in and then it broke at about 20H30.  You were already there - was my understanding correct?

UNKNOWN: According to the statement that is correct.

MR MALENDI: And in fact your wife Mrs Du Randt's understanding is that you came home after 21H00 after they had broken their prayer hour.  Is she correct in this instance and you are wrong?

UNKNOWN: I must be wrong Chairperson.

JUDGE WILSON: You must be wrong in what, I understood that in your evidence here you told us that you arrived home after the prayer meeting had finished.  Is that not so?

UNKNOWN: Yes that's after the prayer hour.  As far as I can remember after I made the statement I have never again studied it so I could think about it and confirm whether or not it was after the prayer hour or after the meeting.

JUDGE WILSON: So do you now accept that the statement is correct.  The statement which you made on the 21st April?

UNKNOWN: Regarding the dates and times, no it is not correct because I did not look at the times and the dates.

JUDGE WILSON: You said you arrived and the prayer meeting had just commenced and you attended the prayer meeting for about an hour from 7.30 to 8.30.  Is that correct?  Do you accept that it would have been correct because you said it two months later?

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, usually after the prayer hour those who had attended would chat outside for a while so it could have happened that we might of chatted with some of the others for a while.

CHAIRPERSON: What is being put really to you is, is that a likelihood that because this statement was made shortly after the event it is more likely to be correct than the evidence you are giving now about the time when the meeting ended and whether you attended the prayer or not?

UNKNOWN: After the Council Meeting I did go into the hall where the prayer hour had been held where my wife was still chatting to some people.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it likely that this statement is correct?

UNKNOWN: My statement?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

UNKNOWN: The time is incorrect.

CHAIRPERSON: I see, yes.

MR MALENDI: Thanks Chairperson.  Chairperson Mrs Du Randt's statement that she made to the police was not handed up when she gave evidence.  I beg to leave to hand it up as one of those statements that the Committee should take into consideration when weighing the evidence before this Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that put to her?

MR MALENDI: Chairperson, my perusal of the record does not specifically deal with this issue of whether Mr Du Randt arrived at 21H00 or earlier but it is contained in her statement that she made to the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, I don't know what the evidential value of all this is going to be but you may hand it in.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, with respect, Mrs Du Randt must first statement - say that the statement was taken freely and voluntarily and was correct as what was put now was never put to her.  The statement was never shown to her at all and the witness was called by Mr Bizos at the time - Mrs Du Randt.

CHAIRPERSON: But may I enquire from counsel, in the overall issues that are of cardinal importance in this case, are these matters of such great importance that we are taking so much time over this?

MR MALENDI: Chairperson, they may show to be of importance because one of our submissions is going to be that the conspiracy was not hatched in February or March 1993 and we are trying to indicate circumstances that show that the plot was being discussed and hatched earlier and we are trying to put before the Committee those circumstances that indicate that the dates that are being put by the applicants cannot be relied upon.

CHAIRPERSON: Well now, put the contents of that statement to this witness and let him admit or deny it.