Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-11

CHAIRPERSON: And when you had your various meetings which you've testified about in Esikhaweni - sorry, did I understand your evidence to be that you participated in the meetings where decisions were taken as to who should be assassinated, or did you merely receive orders after these

CHAIRPERSON: /meetings had

CHAIRPERSON: 1A meetings had taken place?

WITNESS:   Your Honour, I would receive instructions only.  I never used to attend meetings where decisions would be taken as to who the targets were or who should be assassinated but often times than not I would just receive orders from Captain Langeni, who was the one I was working with, hand in hand, and receiving instructions from.  On a few occasions where I could not receive orders from Captain Langeni, just like instructions like the ones I received from Chief Khayalihle Mathaba, those are the few instructions that I did not receive from Captain Langeni but from this one, and even that instruction of killing Nathi Gumede, which we received from Prince Gideon Zulu, those are the few instructions I remember that I did not receive from Captain Langeni.

CHAIRPERSON: So you're saying that mainly you took instructions from Captain Langeni, but you also took an instruction from Prince Gideon Zulu and you also took an instruction from Nkosi Mathaba.  Is that right?  Chief Mathaba?

WITNESS:  Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Where does he live?

WITNESS:   He is a chief in Inyoni area but now, currently, he is in Cape Town because he is a Parliament Member, representing IFP - Member of Parliament.

CHAIRPERSON: How many people did he instruct you to kill?

WITNESS:  Two.

CHAIRPERSON: Were those people from his area?

WITNESS:   They were from his area, Inyoni area.

CHAIRPERSON: And did he tell you why he wanted you to kill them or did he tell you afterwards why he wanted you to kill them?

WITNESS:   He did explain to us and I know why they

CHAIRPERSON: /were killed,

CHAIRPERSON: 1A were killed, but they were not killed at the same time, because they were separate - they were living in different areas and he also did not instruct us at the same time to kill those people.  So he instructed us at different times to kill those people.

CHAIRPERSON: [Break in recording] ... the reasons that he wanted you to kill them?

WITNESS:   The first one was the headman, induna, in Inyoni.  He told us that he was troublesome in the area, the community, because he was also pressurising people not to respect the chief, because the chief wanted the place to become predominantly IFP area.  Second to that he said he was blocking people from holding traditional and using traditional weapons and it was known here at the time that it was ANC which was fighting the traditional weapon.  Now that headman, induna, was influencing people not to respect the chief, because the chief is an IFP member.  Now if they respected the chief they were not respecting it because they were Zulu, but were dancing to the tune of the IFP.  And again, they should not pay any taxes.  They would not even attend any meetings or imbizo being called by the chief in the area for one reason that the chief was IFP member.  Now that made the chief to realise that if that headman is continuing doing this and being influential to the area now that would mean IFP would lose their support in the whole area and the chief would be left alone with no support.  Those were the reasons why the headman was killed.

CHAIRPERSON: And were those people killed in Inyoni?  Where were they killed?  At their houses, where?

WITNESS:   They were killed at Inyoni, in their houses and we left them, we

CHAIRPERSON: /never took

CHAIRPERSON: 1A never took them.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the name of the induna?

WITNESS:   I don't remember the name of the induna but after the investigation or during the investigation the ITU came along with me and I showed them the house where we killed the induna, and they admitted as well that the induna was killed in that house.

CHAIRPERSON: Did Captain Langeni know that you took instructions from other people, for example Prince Gideon Zulu and Chief Mathaba?

WITNESS:   Yes, he knew that.

CHAIRPERSON: And did he agree with that?

WITNESS:   Yes, he agreed with that because he never fought me with regard to that and again, as I have already indicated to the Commission, I used to give reports to him with what I had done - with the work that I had accomplished.  I would give reports to him and there was never even one time when he did not praise me for the work that I was doing.  Now I'm certain that he knew exactly what was going on.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these verbal reports or written reports?  You said you reported to Captain Langeni.  Did you speak to him or did you write something down?

WITNESS:   I used to report verbally.  We were instructed heavily that we should not at all write any document in the form of a report with regard to all the activities that we carried.

CHAIRPERSON: And did Captain Langeni give you any guidelines as to who you should take instructions from?  Did he say you should not take instructions from anybody who is not a chief?  I mean, how did you know that it was proper to take instructions from Chief Mathaba, for example?

WITNESS:  I want to remind the Commission that the first meeting that we had at Captain Langeni's office, it was explicitly

CHAIRPERSON: /explained to

CHAIRPERSON: 1B explained to us that we would be working with local leadership of Esikhaweni and the neighbouring areas, and Chief Mathaba and Mr B B Biyela and Mrs Lindiwe Mbuyazi were people who were always in touch - so often in touch and they are the ones who I would say were responsible for the promotion of Inkatha interests in the area, in the neighbouring areas.  Now I was working hand in hand, very closely with them.  I would say in a nutshell, the IFP local leadership was working hand in hand with me.

CHAIRPERSON: You said that you were congratulated by Captain Langeni for various actions which you took.  Were you congratulated by anybody else?

WITNESS:   He wouldn't be congratulating me only but also my subordinates as well.  The congratulation or the praise was not only coming to me, but also coming to the group at large, the people that I've already told the Commission about.

CHAIRPERSON: The thing I asked was did anybody else congratulate you and/or your group - any other person, other than Captain Langeni?

WITNESS:   No, I was reporting to him only.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, no further questions.  There may be questions arising out of that evidence, to the extent that it was - some of it was new.  So if anybody wants to put any further questions to Mr Mkhize, arising out of those issues.

MR LASICH: Mr Chairman, it's merely to record the previous recording of a denial as far as the allegations are concerned.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Lasich.

MR WILLS: Sorry, Mr Chairperson, there is one issue that I might - I might, and I stress might - want to raise in re-examination, but if I could just refer to my notes.  If
 /the Commission
1B the Commission could bear with me for one or two minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: Just while we are waiting for Mr Wills, Mr Mkhize, did the congratulations that you said Captain Langeni gave to you take any form?  Did he merely congratulate you or did he - were you paid anything or given something in recognition of what you had done or was there a party which was held or anything like that?

WITNESS:  I explained to this Commission that I was not paid for this work.  I was getting a salary just like all the other police, but with regard to the work that I used to carry on the side there was no remuneration that I was getting for such and again I was a patriot myself and wanting to further the mission of the organization, so I wasn't paid in any way or in any form.