Special Hearings — Prison Hearings — 1997-07-22

CHAIRPERSON: We shall now call upon Theresa Ramashamola.  Welcome Theresa.  We are sorry that you were kept so long, but as you know, we had to go through these proceedings.
 I will ask you to stand up and repeat the oath after me.

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Theresa, would you prefer to speak Sesotho?  Hugh Lewin will facilitate the process as you will tell your story.

MR LEWIN: Theresa, I will speak in English and it should be translated.  Can you hear?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: You can?   Is it coming through clearly?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Yes, I can hear the Sotho interpretation.

MR LEWIN: Theresa, thank you, thank you very much for coming and as the Chairperson has said, we are sorry that there has been a delay in your coming forward.
 You were also part of the Sharpville 6, with Duma Khumalo who has come this morning and what we would really like to ask you is to talk about your time on death row.  You have given us a statement which outlines some of the terrible things that actually happened to you from September 1984, before you were sentenced to death.
 For the purposes of today, if we could ask you just to deal with those very briefly, but then to tell us a little bit more about that one sentence where you say in your statement, we were inside for eight years and seven years on death row.
 If you could tell us please a little bit about that time and what it was like, because it would have been something quite special for you as a woman.  Please in your own words and in your own time, tell us something about that, thank you.

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: I would explain about the time on death row.  I think that is the time you are requiring me to state about.

MR LEWIN: Yes.

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Whilst on death row, it was quite difficult for me, because what hurt me was that as most people talked to me, were saying, asking why were you the only woman on death row.  That hurt me, I couldn't understand what kind of a woman was I who was this unfortunate to be on death row and what I was arrested for, if we trace back in time, we cannot find anything.
 If I did such deeds or rather I was supposed to have sentenced to death, what hurt me was that I was on death row for somebody I never touched personally, I never threw a stone at that person.
 Even Mabuti and that woman said, as I said, I don't remember deep in my heart saying that this minute is said aside for anybody to tell the truth.  I will say the truth that I didn't kill Dlamini.  I did nothing.  I did not even throw a stone at him.
 To stand on death row, to be killed, I would think that I would be hanged for somebody I didn't kill.  I could have killed myself, committed suicide, but I asked myself why would I do that or escape because I didn't do such a thing.
 I was frustrated at that time, I couldn't understand what was happening to me.

MR LEWIN: Where were you actually held Theresa, could you tell us that?  Where was death row, in Pretoria?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: And separate?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Yes, that was in Pretoria Central Prison.

MR LEWIN: You were kept separate from say the other members of the Sharpville 6?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Duma and the others were at the male section, I was at the female section.  When we left, I met them when I was informed that we are going to be hanged.  I never met anybody when I received visitors, some of the prisoners would come, because it was lunch.  I had a visitor.
 They were told not to have eye contact with me.  They will just come and get food, you know, and hurriedly go back and eat.  That is what made me cry.  I could not understand why I was estranged from others while still alive.

MR LEWIN: Could you tell us a little bit about what life was like in those years when you were awaiting execution?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: I remember the day when I heard that I was going to be executed.  Father Patrick arrived, I could see his expression was sad.  It is like he cried before.
 He tried to fake his expression, asking me how I felt.  I said to him, I feel quite happy, I polished my shoes.  I have fixed my dress.  He felt me how I felt, I said to him, I am fine, there is nothing that I felt at that time.   There was the police Sarah Matahole, she worked well with the police who were investigating our case and some of the White policemen, she was investigating our case whilst we were still on death row.
 I just had this shock, this woman came when I had visitors, trying to eavesdrop and the way she entered the room was not satisfactorily.  She would talk to Father Patrick alone and said to me they are calling you.
 He would not tell me why, because he already heard.  As I left for that place, Sarah told me that we have to leave for the hospital.  On arrival there, three men entered.  The one that I remember is Arno, Warrant Officer Arno.
 As we entered the hospital, he asked me if I am Theresa, asking me in Afrikaans, I confirmed that I was indeed Theresa.
 He asked me where is my mother.  I said I don't know where my mother is.  He said to me you must not tell me that, I am asking you where is your mother and I said, no, my mother is overseas.  I said that my mother went overseas, that is what I heard.
 And he said your mother went overseas and she thinks that we are not going to kill you, you are going to die.  He has never told me anything, he just told me that I was going to die and I picked it from there that when somebody is taken to hospital, he is going to be killed.
 And when they arrived at the cells, you will be discharged.  I recalled Roos de Vos, the other one that when they were executed, it was at the hospital.  I thought now I was going to be killed.
 He said I must stand on the scale, weight scale and then he took out a rope, he measured the circumference of my neck and then measured my height.  Thereafter he measured my (indistinct) and then he said to me don't think that you wouldn't hang.  I said to him if I would be executed, it would be fine, but if I didn't kill I wouldn't be hanged.
 And what you wish, would not happen, you might even die before me.  I said that out of anger and frustration for the way he talked to me.  Afterwards we went back to the cell.
 I don't want to tell lies.  I was a Christian.  I used to pray.  I didn't fear death.  I even asked them why are you killing me, or rather when are you killing us.  Then I said to this other guys, let us accept that we didn't kill that person and let us accept that we are going to be hanged.
 There was this other one, Ritmo Gowena, who didn't agree to die at that age and I said to him, we didn't kill that person, but they are forcing it.  They want to kill us.  We are only left with a day to be hanged.  It was on a Thursday.  They came to me on Monday, but I was saying this on Thursday to them.
 Afterwards this White policemen, I said to this Major at this prison, wouldn't it be better that you don't just organise a pauper's funeral for us, organise a proper funeral for us, not like animals who would be dropped like it has been said is done with people.
 This woman said I must make an application requesting our parents to buy graves rather than being thrown down.  This Officer didn't take this letter or application to the authorities, but tore it up.  Even a dog at times, you might even dig up a grave for it.  We don't know what takes place there, but we heard that it was quite difficult there and it hurt.

MR LEWIN: How many people were in that section - that you must have been the only person there?