Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-08

MS KOOVERJEE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I'll call the next applicant, Mr Marcel Trevor Andrews.  Sir, may I have leave to hand over the statement that I've prepared for Mr Andrews.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly, Ms Kooverjee, that will be Exhibit R.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We've received a statement now, which we will call Exhibit R.  Yes, Ms Kooverjee.

MS KOOVERJEE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Andrews, I refer you to bundle A1, page 190 to 194, is that you application for amnesty?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes, it is.

MS KOOVERJEE: Have you been assisted in the completion of this application?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.

MS KOOVERJEE: Okay.  You have a statement before you, would you please read it to the Committee.
MR ANDREWS
"My name is Marcel Trevor Andrews.  I was born in Wentworth on the 3rd of February 1970.  I spent most of my life in the working class township of Wentworth.  I completed matric at Fairvale Secondary in 1988, and that school at a stage was in a dilapidated condition.
		Immediately after I left school I was employed by Sasol at Secunda in the Eastern Transvaal.  I encountered serious problems with white employees as they were forever wanting to oppress me.  I observed how oppression and apartheid dominated my life.
		I got involved in the Congress of South African Students, together Gasta(?) Sharpley at the beginning of 1984.  At that time COSAS was an affiliate of the United Democratic Front. 
		We went around the Wentworth area to try and politicise the students to join the Congress of South African Students. 
		During January/February 1985 (that should read '86) ..."

CHAIRPERSON: You say that should be 1986?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So that's
"During January/February 1986"
MR ANDREWS
"... I was recruited by comrade Vincent James to become an active member of the African National Congress, within a unit under Commander Robert McBride.
		At that stage we assisted in politicising the students in the area.  I received ANC material, which I read.  I often listened to Radio Freedom and participated in political discussions at the Allan Taylor residence.
		I refer to my amnesty application.  I have applied for amnesty in respect of Item 13, referred to in bundle A1, page 8, referred to as "Grenade Attack on School Principal Leaf's House", which occurred on the 8th of April 1986.
		I was arrested for this incident and was to have been a State witness.  However, since both Vincent James and Kevin Curtis pleaded guilty, no evidence was taken from me.  I have not been indemnified for this act, nor have I as yet been charged for it.
		A day or two before the 8th of April 1986, Vincent trained me in the use of handgrenades.  This was theoretical training.  On the day in question and ...(indistinct) 9.30pm, Vincent James, Kevin Curtis and I left the Allan Taylor residence to go to Mr Leaf's house.  I knew Mr Leaf as a member of the Labour Party and also as a police reservist.
		Two handgrenades were used.  I carried one and Vincent James carried the other.  We approached Mr Leaf's house from the back and threw the handgrenades to the front of the house.  There were no injuries and minimal damage to his property.
		I confirm comrade Robert's submissions on this operation.  We were at that stage concerned the Labour Party supported a State of emergency and cross-border raids.  We understood Mr Leaf as a legitimate target."
Thank you.

MS KOOVERJEE: Thank you, Sir, that is the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS KOOVERJEE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Berger, do you have any questions you'd like to put?

MR BERGER: No questions, Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dehal?

MR DEHAL: Thank you, Chairperson, just to clarify one aspect.
	Mr Andrews, Mr McBride tells me that the general understanding amongst the comrades in Wentworth and in political circles around Wentworth was that in human rights trials, political trials like the one you were involved in when you became a state witness against your comrades, it was generally done not freely and voluntarily, but under pressure at the hands of the Security Police.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: That's correct.

MR DEHAL: Is that how you elected - well elected would be the incorrect word, is that how you came to be the State witness in this matter against Vincent James and the other?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Well there wasn't like any physical pressure, but I can just maybe explain the circumstances.

MR DEHAL: Briefly.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Okay.  I was held alone at Brighton Beach Police Station, in single cells and not being able to communicate with other people and this constantly playing on my mind.  That's exactly the circumstances under which I agreed to lead evidence for the State.

JUDGE PILLAY: Do I understand you correctly that in return for becoming a State witness you would be relieved of the burden of doing solitary confinement?  Was the promise made to you?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes, and subsequently being released.

JUDGE PILLAY: And that you would be released from any incarceration?

CHAIRPERSON: Prosecutions.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.

JUDGE PILLAY: And you would not be held under the specific law under which you were being held at the time?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes, that's correct.

MR DEHAL: Thank you, Judge.
	Just briefly again, how old were you at the time?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: At the time of the Leaf incident I was 16 years old.

MR DEHAL: And when you were in detention you were just slightly over 16?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: That's correct, Sir.

MR DEHAL: And how long were you in detention for?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: I was held in Brighton Beach for over, a little bit over three months.

CHAIRPERSON: In solitary confinement you say.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And was it also widely understood and accepted amongst the comrades that when you participated at the level that you did, openly being seen to be a Security Police witness or a State witness at the behest of the Security Police, that when you are released from custody and you get back to the township you are ostracised, you are rejected by your own people?  And indeed, the accused when they come off, like Mr McBride and his family would have rejected you?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  And that you also feared for your life because when you get back to the township, in those volatile days, death would have appeared to you to have been inevitable, perhaps at the hands of the comrades as well.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes, I did consider that.

MR DEHAL: And was it not understood that the Security Police were playing this political game where witnesses or comrades are put one against the other and when they are finally released they are killed by each other?

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: Yes.  If I could just state something further on that.

MR DEHAL: Yes.

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr Dehal, what's the relevance of all this?

MR DEHAL: Simply to indicate ...(intervention)

JUDGE PILLAY: What the South African Security Police used to get up to?

MR DEHAL: Sorry, two reasons, Judge.  The first is that when Matthew Lecordier comes in there will be much to be said about his involvement as a State witness in the McBride trial and I was just setting this as a background record to show there's some level of corroboration in that regard.  And whilst the opportunity was here I thought I'll use it.

JUDGE PILLAY: Carry on.  For what it's worth, carry on.

MR DEHAL: Sorry, you were saying something.

MARCEL TREVOR ANDREWS: This is what I had thought at the time, that at the end of trial I did not lead evidence.  The Security Police had some difficulty in letting me, in releasing me at the end of the trial.  So as a result, when I got back to the community I was not really ostracised by all the comrades and if I could say, I was accepted and embraced by some of them.