Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

J P NEL: I do not know if he went to go and fetch them. At the end of the day when I was arrested I contacted him and then I saw them when they visited me in prison.

MR MALAN: You said that you asked him to go and visit them. From the 14th to the 25th you were gone. And immediately after the 14th you asked him to go and visit them?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

MR MALAN: But up to the 25th you do not go to any trouble to go and visit them and then you go and see that the house is empty.

J P NEL: I was not at a phone to phone them. We were in the veld or a bush.

MR MALAN: At the leader's house isn't there a telephone or at head office or at Trim Park?

J P NEL: At Trim Park we did not have any telephones and there on the farm, in the veld we did not have any telephones. And at the leader's house where we did guard duty and worked I worked outside. We did not work inside the house.

MR MALAN: So you never worried about your wife and children at that stage?

J P NEL: I believed that God would protect them and look after them. Or my father, sorry my father.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Nel how many people asked to go and visit their families?

J P NEL: I would say approximately 15 people. I cannot say exactly.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: I have got no further questions Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo have you got re-examination?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson. 	Mr Nel initially you were in Western Transvaal and Ventersdorp and then to the game farm. You said that at one stage that at the game farm was centrally positioned close to the PWV area. What do you mean by that?

J P NEL: When they said to us that we are leaving, Major Smit said that we are leaving for the game farm. He said that we are on the border of the Volkstaat that will be established at that it is close to the PWV area. I believed that after the utterances of
Constand Viljoen that he said that the AWB would deal with the city areas, urban areas and the Volksfront would then deal with the rural areas and that is why I believed we were involved.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you personally patrol on the game farm?

J P NEL: No I was more involved with the guard duties. I never myself did patrolling. With the car theft I was involved and the rest of the time I did guard duty. And at the game farm itself ensure that nothing went wrong.

MR PRINSLOO: You gave evidence that at the different taxi ranks there were a lot of police that morning?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: According to the evidence in front of this honourable Committee there were other explosions at various taxi rank areas in Randfontein and Western area. Did it have any influence? Do you think that is why there were so many police there?

J P NEL: Yes it could have been a factor. That is why we thought, because there is so many police because there has already been explosions that policing could have resulted because they thought that only taxi ranks would be targeted.

MR PRINSLOO: No further questions.

MR PRINSLOO: .

ADV BOSMAN: One aspect Mr Nel. You mentioned the
Generals where you were on guard duty that had a meeting there.

J P NEL: That is correct yes.

ADV BOSMAN: Can I just get clarity concerning this. It does not appear in your statement in Annexure A.

J P NEL: No Mr Chairperson I did not add that in.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you see that as an important event?

J P NEL: At that stage I did not think of it when I made my application but I did bring it under the attention of my advocate.

ADV BOSMAN: At what stage?

J P NEL: It was with consultation.  I did bring it under their attention and that is why they asked me.

ADV BOSMAN: What did you read in that meeting? What relevance do you think that meeting had concerning everything that happened?

J P NEL: The fact that the Generals in staff were there because for me eighty percent of the Generals in staff who were there I believed that in that meeting certain decisions were made about why we were gathered there.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you tell that to your advocate?

J P NEL: Yes I believe so.

ADV BOSMAN: It appears to me as if it is a very crucial event and I find it strange that it now for the first time you mentioning it in this hearing.

J P NEL: That is how I saw it. That is what happened, because I was placed as a guard outside but in the time when we wrote this I did not think of it either.

ADV BOSMAN: When was this meeting?

J P NEL: It was in the evening the people were sleeping and I was outside, a roaming guard. I was moving around and when they moved in.

ADV BOSMAN: Then this makes it more sinister.  Here the whole Generals in staff appear midnight in secret and you do not make anything of it and that is strange to me.

J P NEL: They held the meeting and I cannot say why it was held in the night and what was discussed there but I knew that they were there definitely.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you mention it to your fellow soldiers or men, that the Generals in staff were there last night and I wonder what they were talking about?

J P NEL: No not at that stage.

ADV BOSMAN: Not towards anyone?

J P NEL: No I was on guard duty I saw them I think some of them were awake and would have seen them as well and I did not mention it to anyone.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Nel it is not the place but it is strange. If you could that this sinister event followed it up with anybody?

J P NEL: No I did not do it.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman there is just one other aspect that I hung on for so long that I forgot about it. If I may with the permission of the panel.
	Mr Nel you say that you were on leave when you went to the resort or Major Smit dropped you off at the resort. How long did you stay there?

J P NEL: I was arrested there.

MR PRIOR: The same day?

J P NEL: That morning yes. That afternoon late I went there and the next morning, the 27th I was arrested there.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it correct that General Cruywagen was arrested at the same place you were arrested?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct he was four bungalows from me and he was also arrested there.

CHAIRPERSON: Who threw that bomb out of the car?

J P NEL: Who threw the bomb?

CHAIRPERSON: Or swung?

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson I drove. Gert Fourie was left in front on the passenger's side and Piet Steyn sat at the back on the left hand side. He ignited it and threw it out of the window.

CHAIRPERSON: The whole operation you wanted it to be a success, is that right?

J P NEL: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: This pipe bomb when it was thrown out of the car wasn't there a risk that the fuse would go out?

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson I do not have knowledge of explosives and stuff. They said that is how you must use it and I do not know if that could be.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they tell you do you throw it?

J P NEL: Yes they said that you must detonate it. They did not tell us that you must put it down or throw it or anything.

CHAIRPERSON: There where you were arrested how many people who were at the hearing were arrested there?

J P NEL: Those were involved in the hearing?

CHAIRPERSON: How many of the people who belonged to the AWB or were involved with the AWB was arrested there where you were?

J P NEL: There was only two of them, me and General Cruywagen and the rest of the people were AWB people.  At the holiday resort the people, the blind people with their wives and families they were all AWB people.

CHAIRPERSON: The two blind friends were they also AWB people?

J P NEL: Yes their surname is Snyman.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you visit there?

J P NEL: No before in training camps we would do that at that same resort.

CHAIRPERSON: But what did you do to keep the children busy?

J P NEL: Excuse me?

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do to keep the children busy?

J P NEL: I do not know, I wasn't there during the day to know what they were doing with them.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED