Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-18

MR NOMPOZOLO: But do you agree with me that the main thing which happened after General Nqoya did not come back, the main thing that happened was the chanting of slogans, is that correct?

M C NQINANA: I am not going to say yes, I think that co-ordinators can explain something else because I was not always in the hall, the people would talk and matters would arise, I cannot just say that they were only chanting slogans and the freedom songs.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Actually the evidence which has been led thus far is pointing to that, that the main thing which was happening there was chanting of slogans and singing of freedom songs and questioning of officers about the misappropriation of funds and you've got nothing more to add to that, not so?

M C NQINANA: ...(indistinct)

MR NOMPOZOLO: And is it correct that if people want to overthrow a Head of State they would have an action to do that, they won't sit in the hall and chant slogans and sing freedom songs?  They will do little bit more than that like amongst other things (i) handing a petition over to that person, (ii) going there to overthrow that person forcefully.  Is that not the case?

M C NQINANA: That was once mentioned that Gqozo should be fetched there, I am not sure who are the people who went to Gqozo's place to fetch him, I did not hear any planning but I just heard people saying that I know that some people went to fetch Gqozo.  I am not sure who are the people who were sent there.

MR NOMPOZOLO: The purpose for fetching Gqozo was for Gqozo to come to the meeting to explain where were the monies, where were the pension monies and what plans were there for the police in the new South Africa.  He was not going to be fetched to resign there in front of the police, not so?

M C NQINANA: I don't think that was the case because Gqozo knew nothing about our monies, it's only the commissioner who could respond because I knew nothing about that.

MR NOMPOZOLO: In fact the commissioner went to see Brigadier Gqozo about the pensions of the police, that is the evidence that has been led thus far?

M C NQINANA: I was not aware of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nompozolo, who gave that evidence?

MR NOMPOZOLO: It was Mfene, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Did Mfene say that the Commissioner Nqoya was going to discuss the money with Gqozo?

MR NOMPOZOLO: Yes the pensions, when he left in the morning round about 10 o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: He left to go and discuss the pension with Gqozo?

MR NOMPOZOLO: With Brigadier Gqozo, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes well perhaps I don't have a clear recollection of that but we'll look at the evidence.  You can proceed for the moment.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you.
	Now the police wanted to see Brigadier Gqozo because they wanted their pensions.  What are you saying to that?

M C NQINANA: I do not have any knowledge about that.

MR NOMPOZOLO: And is it correct that because Ngoya was not coming back people were angry and they were no longer much interested in him now, they were interested in Gqozo coming and explain what Ngoya has failed to explain to them?

M C NQINANA: I do not think so, he couldn't have been fetched if that was the case but Ngoya had to be fetched at his home, I'm not sure about that.

MR NOMPOZOLO: And you are aware that Ngoya left, he left to meet Brigadier Gqozo?

M C NQINANA: I was not present when he left, I don't even know the reason for his leaving but all I knew was that we had to gather at the hall to wait for him to address us.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Now why were other officers together, why were other officers, why were they amongst the warrant officers like Mr Papel, he was a commissioned officer yet he was amongst the warrant officers.  Is it because he did not misappropriate any funds?

M C NQINANA: I do not have any knowledge about that, I never saw him, perhaps he was there or not or he wasn't.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Would it then be fair to say to you it would seem as if you were not aware of what was happening in the meeting?  You were not aware that the purpose of the meeting was to overthrow Brigadier Gqozo?

M C NQINANA: I don't think that is fair because the situation prevailing at the time could tell what was happening, it's not fair to say I did not know what was happening there.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Would it be fair to say chanting of slogans and singing of freedom songs does not overthrow anybody?

M C NQINANA: If that does not say anything about overthrowing, what is the cause of Gqozo's removal because my perception I think what he did there contributed to Gqozo surrendering.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Have you ever attended a public gathering where slogans are chanted and freedom songs are sung?

M C NQINANA: No.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Well I think then that explains that you are not aware of the fact that chanting of slogans and singing of freedom songs does not overthrow anybody, not so?

M C NQINANA: As I said I do not know that but I believe that the activities in that meeting made to Gqozo's resigning because even the people who were his pillars were no longer behind him at the time.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you Mr Nompozolo.  Ms Collett have you got any questions?

MS COLLETT: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapomo, have you got any questions?

MR MAPOMO: No questions Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Has the panel got any questions?

ADV BOSMAN: No questions thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination Mr Obose?

MR OBOSE: None thank you Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Nqinana, you are excused, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED