Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-30

ADV SANDI: You were not at any stage asked by members of the SDUs to clean, as we were told by other applicants, to clean up the weapons?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Will you please repeat your question?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: You did not at any stage touch the weapons, an AK47 and a rifle or a pistol with your hands, did you?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: As I've already told you, most of the times if you are not brave you wouldn't be given the firearms.  I was also afraid because the people who were carrying firearms were dying and they would be arrested by the stability unit.  I was afraid to touch a firearm because I thought I was going to die if I do.

ADV SANDI: Were you ever requested by your comrades to check the whereabouts of members of the IFP and the ISU?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: The only mandate that I was given was in 1993 when we were told to patrol and take the suspects for questioning.  There is nothing else that I can think of.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.  Thank you, Chair.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, Chair.
	Mr Madondo, in 1993 you would have been 13/14 years old, am I right?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes.

ADV GCABASHE: The patrolling duties that you did you did with a commander in charge of the group, or who would be in charge?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: The duty of the commander was to give the instructions and the person who would be staying in that vicinity would do the work, would carry the duties.

ADV GCABASHE: So it's that local person who would lead that small group that happened to be patrolling on that day?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Will you please repeat your question?

ADV GCABASHE: You are saying it's the local person who would be the leader of the small group that happened to be patrolling on any one day?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, it happened sometimes that even the other people would pass through our township.  It was not only the local people because all the sections were helping one another.

ADV GCABASHE: Alright.  Let's talk about the specific day when you came across this man with the letter and the IFP card.  How many of you were together?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: It was a lot of us because it was during the day and it was not only the people from our section, there were other people also.

ADV GCABASHE: Now whose decision was it to take this man to Kweseni hostel?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: The gentlemen or the comrades told us to take him to the hostel but I could see that the man was not taken to the hostel.

ADV GCABASHE: This is what I was trying to understand, because you were in the middle of a war in a sense, with the IFP and I was trying to understand this new strategy of taking this person to Kweseni hostel.  What you are then saying to me is, your own sense was that you were not taking him to Kweseni hostel?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, because we found an IFP membership in his pocket.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, then the rest of the evidence makes sense, or I understand the rest of the evidence.  Thank you.  Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was the coffin, was it inside the hearse?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, it was inside the hearse.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you get to the coffin?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: All the sections were patrolling during the day.  The commander from Slovo, Jamani, is the one who stopped the hearse.  We were at Givani Street.  He called upon us and he told us that here is the commander of IFP and we came running.  He had already stopped the hearse at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but what I actually wanted to hear from you is, did you have to open the hearse and did you do any damage to the hearse in that process?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, only the coffin was taken out of the hearse.  Nothing happened to the hearse, only the coffin that was taken out of the hearse.

CHAIRPERSON: And the driver was left to go?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anybody at any stage identify the corpse further than just an IFP commander?  Did anybody say what the names of this person was?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: I think Jamani was staying at Slovo and this is where the conflict was worse than the other areas.  He used to know the majority of the IFP members.  He is the one who told us that that was the IFP commander, that is Jamani.

CHAIRPERSON: But he never mentioned a name or any name that you can remember?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: He did mention the name but I cannot remember the name.

CHAIRPERSON: When about did this incident happen with the hearse?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: That was in 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: You can't remember anything more, like the month or any further indication as to when this thing happened?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: I only remember that it was in 1993.  That is the only thing I can remember.

CHAIRPERSON: And in respect of the incident with the person who had the membership card of the IFP and the letter, you said that was also in 1993.  Can you give any better indication about the date in that case?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, I only remember that both incidents took place in 1993, but I can't remember the dates.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not sure if you have actually made if clear, but let me ask you again.  What actually happened to that person with the IFP membership card?  He was shot at as well, was he killed or what happened to him?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: We took him and he was under the impression that we were taking him to Kweseni hostel.  When we were at Everest - there's Everest and there's Radebe section.  It was during the day and the other people from Radebe and from Everest came and one of them had a firearm.  He shot at this gentleman.  We had already pelted the gentleman with stones.

CHAIRPERSON: So did that person die or what happened to him?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, he passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mopedi, re-examination?

MR MOPEDI: No re-examination, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Madondo, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED