Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-06

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: First let me talk about the spot where we ambushed the bus.  When you enter Beaufort West you approach the town itself, there's a bend there and at that bend there are lights and there is a bridge, so there's a river running under the bridge.  So one, we are two in this operation, we need to see our target from a distance, so the lights will help us to see the target from a distance, so that we can advance, because we are hiding at the soup kitchen, at the ...(indistinct) there, at the soup kitchen.  So when we saw the bus coming, then we ran and approached that, I think in a 15 metre distance, then we started to attack it.
	We wanted to attack the driver first, the driver was the real target, because by attacking the driver we knew that the bus would lose it's way and went down to the river, so that many people could get injured or killed or whatever at that time.  So when we attacked the bus, right, that didn't happen, the bus went through after we attacked and it stopped on the bridge.  After it stopped, I think for a second or so, then it went on.  
	Then we ran back to our hide-out, then we lay down.  I went home, I left Mandla at the hide-out.  I went home and slept.  Then early morning Sichumiso phoned me.  But let me explain it this way.  Sorry.  When Sichumiso phoned me and gave me the order to attack that bus, one, I knew that I don't have to question orders first, but in my subconscious mind after I did my whole reconnaissance and saw that no, this bus was boarded by whites, as they called them.  Right.  There's one thing that I want, I'm in a struggle to liberate Azanian masses, the masses that had no vote, no right to vote.  The whites have a right to vote.  If he don't vote that is his own or her own will, why he didn't vote, but he had the right.  The South African government gave them that right and they didn't use them if they did or they didn't. So the people who are in the bus, I had nothing personal against them, there's not that I would have gained money or whatever and they should not take it as if that was a criminal incident or what.  
	So it was unfortunate that there might be people who were not, who were innocent and who were travelling from Cape Town to a holiday or whatever, but due to the cause of the struggle, it was unfortunate that their journey was cut short.  So I think I've answered the question so far, so if there's anything.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now that you have touched on this aspect, you know, the victims are there, some of the victims, what do you say to them after what they went through during and after the attack?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: For the victims there is one thing that I'd like to say.  I am sorry that they were involved, or they were victims that day, but they should not take it personally.  We were in the war with the government, we were struggling so that we can all sit free as we have our rights to vote today.  So I don't want them to have a personal grudge or personal vendetta against me, but I wish them to take it in good spirit of reconciliation, that right, what happened happened because of the political situation of the day.  So today let's shake hands and move forward and build this country.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, at this stage that's the evidence of the applicant, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Riley, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the applicant?

MR RILEY: Yes, thank you Chairperson.
	Now Mr Henge, prior to becoming a member of APLA, is it correct that you were in fact a member of the ANC?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I was not a member of the ANC, like carrying a member, but as a child as we grew we knew ANC was a popular party, so I was a follower of the ANC.

MR RILEY: So at what stage then in your life did you decide to move over to PAC?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I decided to join the PAC in 1992, that is when I decided to join it, the PAC.

MR RILEY: And won't you tell us, what were you doing at that stage in your life?  Were you employed, what were you doing?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: At that time I was a scholar, I was doing standard nine when I joined the PAC.

MR RILEY: Is it correct and must we understand that your political activities started very early in your life, at the age what, 10 years old?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, actually I was involved with politics since 1985, I was toyi-toyiing, running up and down the streets since then.  So that is when actually the issue of politics came into my life.

MR RILEY: So is it fair to say then that at the time when the incident took place, that was in 1993, and the period leading up to that, you were heavily politicised and obviously following the political events in the country?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: That's true, Sir.

MR RILEY: And is it also true that in fact after you heard or became aware of the fact that Mr Nelson Mandela had engaged in peaceful discussions with the then government of the day, that you in fact decided you didn't like the ANC anymore, you were joining the PAC?  Do you have a response?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: So actually the issue is not that ANC was busy with the peaceful negotiations, that is why I joined the ANC - the PAC.  The thing that made me to join the PAC is the policies and principles of the PAC, that made me join the PAC.  It's not the peaceful negotiations of the ...

MR RILEY: The reason why I ask is ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: If I could just ask, I thought I saw somewhere here that one of the reasons why you decided to join the PAC, was because you liked their songs and their slogans.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, I don't think the songs and the slogans were the things that made me join PAC, I joined the organisation because of the political principles that the PAC was following, while their songs and their slogans were just a way of boosting the moral, that's all.

MR RILEY: Thank you, Chairperson, may I proceed?
	Mr Henge, in fact, if you look at page 120 of the bundle, you will see there that you in fact in your biography, which I must accept you prepared for the Truth Commission, you in fact said that when you heard the call for talks by Mr Mandela, "I started to hate the ANC, I followed the PAC."  So is that not correct?  It's on page 120.

MR LAX: And you can see the original on page 122.  Is that your handwriting?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.  This biography was written in 1993 when I joined the APLA, so I have to make sure that what I said then is totally correct.

MR RILEY: Yes please make sure.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually Sir, I'll admit to that because one, what was happening at the time, President or the then President Nelson Mandela is engaged in peaceful talks while millions and thousand of South Africans were dying.  Let's look at the Boipatong massacre, let's look at the massacre in Ciskei, let's look at the massacres that happened in Katlehong.  So those were all violence that were perpetrated by the government, but still ...(intervention)

MR RILEY: I don't want to interrupt, Mr Henge, but it's a simple question, your biography says that you then started to hate the ANC.  You're supposed to answer that question.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes Sir, I've answered it.  That is when actually my whole - that is also what influenced me to join the PAC.

MR RILEY: What was that, your hatred for the ANC?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: To see so many people dying, then ...(indistinct) to peaceful talks.

MR RILEY: I don't want to harp on this point, but it's a quite simple point, was one of your motivations for joining the PAC, that you had in fact started to hate the ANC?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MR RILEY: Thank you.  Now the reason why I ask you that is, I'm trying to determine what your motivation was for getting involved in this whole thing.  Now you've already told us that you were heavily politicised at the time, is that correct?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.