Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-29

SILOS NKONYANE: I knew him as a leader of Black Cats and as a member of Inkatha.

MR HATTINGH: I want to put it to you that according to the instructions from the family of the deceased victims, and in particular with reference to Jwi Zwane, they will say that Jwi Zwane did in fact not play the role of a trouble maker in this area at the time, and that there was no reason for him to be assassinated as indicated by you and the other applicants who were members of the Special Committee, who made that decision.

SILOS NKONYANE: That is surprising because when we were at the funeral, I was there when Jwi Zwane fired, shot and I remember that he fired at Jabu Sibanyoni who fell in front of the coffin and Jwi Zwane came closer and he shot at the coffin.
	It is actually surprising me that today the people say that he was not involved in the violence.  We used to be in the same Committees, in the same Peace Committee with him, and he used to indicate that he was a leader of Inkatha.
	That is surprising to me.

MR HATTINGH: The fact that Mr Zwane allegedly shot at the coffin at that particular funeral, did that spark the decision by your Committee, your Special Committee that he had to be assassinated?

SILOS NKONYANE: No.  No, that was not the only reason.  There is a lot of things that took place in our community where Jwi Zwane was involved.

MR HATTINGH: However, was it shortly after this funeral incident that the decision was made by your Committee that Jwi Zwane was to be assassinated?

SILOS NKONYANE: No.

MR HATTINGH: Was it before the funeral or some time there after, if you could just assist us?

SILOS NKONYANE: I can't remember, but the decision was taken earlier, I think the decision was taken earlier.

MR HATTINGH: With regard to Chris Ngwenya, the instructions are ...

CHAIRPERSON: Before we carry on, tell me Mr Nkonyane, how far were you when this incident of the coffin, how far were you from that incident when it took place?  Were you officiating in that funeral?

SILOS NKONYANE: I can't be so sure, but I think I was about 100 to 120 metres away from the incident.   At the time, we were behind a pipe that was there, because when they shot, when they fired, we took cover behind the pipe, that is when we saw Jwi Zwane.  After shooting Jabu Sibanyoni he came closer to the coffin and Chris Ngwenya was also nearer.  He was also busy firing.
	One old man who had a bed, we couldn't identify him but after some time talking to the Black Cat members, they identified the person as Dalaqolo Luthuli.

CHAIRPERSON: You as a Reverend, how does the interference with the body, the dead body of a person, how does that effect the community?

SILOS NKONYANE: I was a teacher, what I was actually referring to, I meant a school teacher, not a Reverend.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, but can you answer the question as a school teacher, or if you can't, then say you can't.
	Can you tell us what the effect of interference  with the body of the dead would have on the community?

SILOS NKONYANE: The community was very disturbed.  People showed some disappointment, that is when we realised that even the media people came, they had interest because they wanted to know what was happening.
	They wanted to know these people who were cruel, who can even shoot at a dead person.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Just to clarify the issue, were you at any stage in the past or at present a Reverend, a man from the church?

SILOS NKONYANE: No.  I am not a preacher, I am not a Reverend.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you.

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Hattingh, can I just come in if you want to move on to another issue.  Whose funeral was this Mr Nkonyane?

SILOS NKONYANE: It was the funeral of Mr Sibanyoni who was killed by the Black Cat gang.

ADV SANDI: Did you get to know if the coffin was damaged, did you see any holes on the coffin?

SILOS NKONYANE: What I saw the time, I only saw Jwi opening the coffin and shooting.  I don't know, because we didn't get the results from the post mortem.  I don't know, I am not sure whether there was any damage or not.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't they bury the body in any event, there and then?

SILOS NKONYANE: I think we went on because the Police came.  We managed to continue.

ADV SANDI: I think I heard one of the legal representatives yesterday saying this whole incident about the coffin having been shot at, was thoroughly investigated by the Goldstone Commission.  Did you hear whether the Goldstone Commission had inspected this coffin to see if there were any holes on it?

SILOS NKONYANE: No.  I don't know anything about the findings of the Goldstone Commission.  All I can remember is that we continued with the funeral.
	I am not sure, maybe the body was exhumed and investigated.  I don't know if that was done, maybe it was done.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Nkonyane, with regard to Chris Ngwenya on the instructions of the family, I just want to put it to you that it would appear that not only did he also not play the part in the violence as pictured by the applicants, but that there was in fact a personal or a private problem between Mr Ngwenya and Mr John Mndebele and that in fact on the day before Chris Ngwenya was assassinated, Mr John Mndebele laid a charge with the Police, against Chris Ngwenya.
	What are your comments in this regard?

SILOS NKONYANE: You can ask John Mndebele about that, I don't know anything.

MR HATTINGH: Just to put it in brief that the killing of Chris Ngwenya was not politically motivated, but for another reason.  There was no political reason for your Committee to make such a decision or to give such an instruction for him to be assassinated.

SILOS NKONYANE: I won't agree with you because after the death of Jwi Zwane, I know that a bus came full of people who had red ribbons around their forehead.  Those were the people who were supporting Chris.
	After the funeral of Jwi Zwane, about nine people that day died.  Even an old man who was drinking porridge at home, was shot and a lot of people thereafter died, and even the weekend after that, a lot of people died.  Other bodies were burnt down, therefore we can't say that Chris was not involved.
	This all happened because of Chris' involvement.

MR HATTINGH: Were there any other specific persons identified by your Committee who according to your Committee were part of that violence or the cause of all the problems?

SILOS NKONYANE: I don't get your question, please repeat.

MR HATTINGH: Apart from Chris Ngwenya and Jwi Zwane, were any other specific people or persons identified by your Special Committee as being people who were responsible for the problems or the conflict in this area at the time?

SILOS NKONYANE: The people who were involved in violence, there were a lot of them, they were from the Black Cat gang, but the people who were at the forefront was Jwi Zwane and Chris Ngwenya.
	People like Obet and Baba and Bongani, all of them were also involved.  There are other people of which I don't know their names, but they were also involved in violence.

MR HATTINGH: But your Committee at no stage considered it necessary to issue an instruction for the assassination of Obet Nhlabathi or Bongani Malinga?

SILOS NKONYANE: The instruction was this, if there is a problem, the Commander must make it a point that the people that he is working with in the SDU's, must make sure that they handle those problems properly.

MR HATTINGH: The issue of the robberies, how many robberies were reported to you that you can testify about?  By that I mean armed robberies which were performed or committed in the furtherance of the struggle.