Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

UNKNOWN: And would I be correct to say again that you certainly, the last time you saw Mr Terreblanche where he was giving you instructions as to where you were from as a people and where you were going to as a people, was on the 2nd of April at that gathering at Trim Park?

MR SMIT: No.

UNKNOWN: Just help right, so when did you see him, between the 2nd of April and the 24th of April, when did you see him and what was he saying to you in particular?

MR SMIT: He didn't say anything specifically to me, but I did see him after we had moved up to Ventersdorp when we were protecting headquarters and staying on Cliff Barnard's farm.  So therefore I did see him but I didn't speak to him.

UNKNOWN: Now again just explain that to me because, just give me a date, just to help me understand and picture this, a date and what he would have been saying to the people whom you may have been with.

MR SMIT: Let me give you a background.  Approximately, I'm not sure about the dates, but let's say the 19th of April we were called up, we went to Ventersdorp and we then went to Cliff Barnard's farm and our orders were to protect the AWB headquarters.  We didn't speak to anybody else in an open meeting where there were other people.  Some of us may have spoken to members while we were guarding the AWB headquarters, but personally I can't offer you any evidence.

UNKNOWN: So as far as you are concerned, the changed of policy or the change of function, to that of disrupting the elections, came from Nico Prinsloo on the Sunday evening, before that all you were told to do was guard?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Smit, did you believe the church minister?

MR SMIT: I think all of us believed at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is: "all of us"?

MR SMIT: Any person who listened to a sermon in a church service or during a meeting believed what the minister had said.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, is this the first time today that you have come to speak the truth?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you make any attempt to get to those people who had lost their husbands or their wives or their children as a result of what happened?

MR SMIT: That is why I am here today.

CHAIRPERSON: No, the question is whether you made the attempt.

MR SMIT: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When?

MR SMIT: When I went to the legal representatives out of my own free will.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go and speak to them?

MR SMIT: With any of the applicants?

CHAIRPERSON: No, with those who were injured.

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: If you were to have such an opportunity would you make use of that?

MR SMIT: I believe so.

CHAIRPERSON: Even though these people may be black people?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your attitude today towards the Boere Volkstaat?

MR SMIT: It was never realised and it will never be realised.

CHAIRPERSON: Well was that not one of the hopes that you cherished?

MR SMIT: It was.

CHAIRPERSON: And now?

MR SMIT: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you still a member of the AWB?

MR SMIT: No.

CHAIRPERSON: What would happen if they came tomorrow and said: "Let's take up arms again and fight the war"?

MR SMIT: There would be no way in which I would.

CHAIRPERSON: And what if that minister gave another sermon in church?

MR SMIT: I wouldn't believe in it.

CHAIRPERSON: And what is your attitude towards black people today?

MR SMIT: We all live together in the same country.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we know that, but what is your attitude?

MR SMIT: We are all citizens of the country, you do your bit and I'll do mine.

CHAIRPERSON: Can't we all live together?

MR SMIT: Well we all live together in the same country.

CHAIRPERSON: No, as a nation?

MR SMIT: We are not the same nation.

CHAIRPERSON: Aren't we the South African nation?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So then why can't we all live together as a nation?

MR SMIT: Because we are not a nation, we are all inhabitants of one country.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't you see that there might be an opportunity for all of us to live together as one?

MR SMIT: As I've said, we will never be able to be one nation but we can all live together in one country.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't you even want to try to live together as one nation?

MR SMIT: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Even some of the applicants said that they would be prepared to try to live together as one nation.

MR SMIT: The only way to have one nation is to rid the nation of hybrids.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I'm not going to debate the scientific aspect behind that.  You see, we are all here in order to determine the truth behind certain problems and the notion, or to achieve the notion of one nation and that is why I will once again ask you, and I'm not speaking of science here, are you not prepared to at least make an attempt to contribute to the achievement of one nation in the country.

MR SMIT: Well we have been under the government of this one nation for four years.

MR MALAN: Might I just follow up on this point please.  According to my historical background, terms might be used differently and incorrectly.  As I understand you, do you still see the Afrikaner as a volk?

MR SMIT: Yes, as you have the Zulu nation or the Xhosa nation.

MR MALAN: As a homogenous ethnic volk.

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: What do understand under nation?

MR SMIT: One nation.

MR MALAN: You understand it similarly?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Well then if I were to say to you, let us assume that the definition of one nation denotes all those living within the same country's borders, under the same lay, in the same political arena, all of those who commit themselves to the same constitution and the same legislative rules, if that indicates a nation, how would you feel about that?

MR SMIT: I would agree with it.

MR MALAN: Therefore, what is your opinion about co-habitation as a nation, according to this definition, under one constitution in one country, and what would your role and connection for the future be, given there are other people who are all part of this nation but not of the volk?

MR SMIT: Well as I've said, for the last four years I'm doing my bit for this so-called nation, but - I misunderstood it from the beginning then.

MR MALAN: Do you everybody in South Africa at the moment as South Africans?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Who are here now and who will be here in future?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Under the same constitution?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: In the same political process?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: How do you feel about it?

MR SMIT: It's right.

MR MALAN: Do you feel it's right?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MR MALAN: Do you feel positive about it?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Do you see any kind of future underneath this approach?

MR SMIT: Yes, that's correct.

MR MALAN: And is your commitment 100%?  In other words, you will not prepare to break down or disrupt and say: "I don't want this person to be part of this country, I don't want this person to have his political say", or "that person of a certain colour or race or culture"?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Well then will you please return and answer the Chairperson's question within that context, and say how you feel about the future of this country and everybody living together in this country.

MR SMIT: It could work.

MR MALAN: Do you think it will work?

MR SMIT: I don't think it's up to me to decide.

MR MALAN: But you will do your best to be part of it?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand you correctly then, that you are prepared to live with the concept that there are different nations within the country?

MR SMIT: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You see that's not what I was talking about.  I was talking about a non-racial country, where there are no nations but only one South African nation.  Are you prepared to participate in that?