Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1977-08-07

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Thereafter I felt unsafe and not free and I was also concerned for the safety of my family as well as my immediate neighbours and that's when I decided that I should also arm myself so that I could be able to defend myself whenever there was any attack.

MR SHEMBE: How did you then arm yourself to defend yourself?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I tried all means to get enough stuff in order to be able to fend off my opponents, or my political opponents.  I got a self-made gun and I made a resolution that I was going to retaliate whenever there was an attack upon us then the UDF started being my enemy, I could not trust them anymore.  As a result ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) I think you must exercise greater control ...(inaudible)

ADV DE JAGER: On the night of the attack on your house, you already had a self-made gun because you fired the gun.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: On the day of the attack, yes I had the gun, I already had it, I had two of them.

ADV DE JAGER: ...(inaudible) get the first one?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: The first time that I obtained a gun was from, when I came from detention that is from CR Swart and the second one ...(intervention)

ADV DE JAGER: Just a moment, the first one you got when you came from the detention from CR Swart.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: When was that?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: If I remember quite well, I was arrested on the 2nd of November and I stayed for a period of two months.

ADV DE JAGER: ...(inaudible)  the 2nd of November of what year?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: In 1989.

ADV DE JAGER: Thank you November 1989 - and then you were released at the beginning of 1990, is that correct if you stayed two months?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, that is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Okay after your release, how long after your release did they - was there an attempt to burn your house?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: If remember quite well I think it was after about two weeks or it could have been one week but I don't remember quite well.

CHAIRPERSON: What happened after the attack, what was the next thing that happened after his house was attacked?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: After my home was attacked, I also tried to retaliate or revenge - on these the UDF members.
No sound.

CHAIRPERSON: I obtained a gun.

MR SHEMBE: Was it now - you have already had two guns, was it the third gun now you're trying to obtain in order to retaliate?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: No, I'm referring to the two that I had.

MR SHEMBE: ...(inaudible) and to retaliate with those guns, what action did you actually do when you say you retaliate with those guns, the actual action now we want to know.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: My revenge that whenever I came across a UDF member, I would regard him as an enemy and I launched counter attacks on the members of the UDF.  I went to Section 23 ...(intervention)

MR SHEMBE: ...(inaudible) steady don't rush because the Judges are writing up there.  In your retaliation you said ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) you came across a UDF member you would attack them, is that what you said?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, that is correct, that is what I said.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) a UDF person you attacked and when?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: The first attack, I did not attack a specific person but we were fighting.  There is a school that divides us so there were members of UDF on the other side and members of Inkatha on the opposite side and we were fighting against each other.  At times they would throw stones at us and we would throw them back and we started shooting at each other.

CHAIRPERSON: When was that?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: It was during 1990.  I think it was somewhere in March, between February and March.

MR SHEMBE: Can you recall whether there was (no sound) person killed in that attack of yours?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Even if there was a person that was injured or killed, it was not easy for us to look because we - after the attack the people would take their injured and run away with them and ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) know whether there were any injured?

MR SHEMBE: And then what was your next retaliation on the UDF people and what is the next retaliation?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I could say there were people who died as well as people who got injured, on both sides.

CHAIRPERSON: Your involvement we're talking about now.  You've described that after the burning of your house the first incident was when a group of you attacked a group on the other side, you threw stones and shot.  You were asked whether you knew whether anybody was injured and we gather that you don't know, what was the next incident?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I don't remember the date quite well as well as the days because the way in which the attacks were launched, you'd not be able to look thereafter as to what day and what time because this was an ongoing process, it happened over a long period of time for consecutive days that there would be these attacks.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: Now Mr Hlengwa, don't mentioned those incidents where you were involved as collectively but the specific incidents which involved you which you can precisely remember as to what part did I actually play.  Are we clear on that issue?  Say what part you actually played as an individual.

ADV DE JAGER: Could I assist?  We've got a picture now that there was fights between the two groups, the UDF on the one side and IFP on the other side and these fights continued over a period but now we want you to tell us about the cases where you were convicted in court.  The first one was the killing of Makanja, could you now kindly tell us what happened, why you decided to kill Makanja and when this occurred?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Masulele Makanja, what made me kill him was I was not specifically gunning for him but I wanted to kill somebody who was staying in the UDF stronghold and who was also a member of the UDF because that is how they were launching their attacks.  That is how I planned to launch my attack, I did not specifically single Makanja out.

ADV DE JAGER: ...(inaudible)  moment then.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go alone?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: When I went to attack it was at night.

ADV DE JAGER: Please listen.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I was with Bheki.

ADV DE JAGER: Just a moment, you would make it very easy if you only listen to the question.  The Chairperson asked you whether you went alone, did you go alone or did somebody accompany you?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: There were two of us.

ADV DE JAGER: ...(inaudible)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Bheki Patrick Zwane.

MR SHEMBE: Now you arrive at ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) Bheki Patrick Zwane, is that one person or are they the names of two different people?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: It's one person.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) person?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: No, he said he went with ...

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: There were two of us, myself as well as Bheki Patrick Zwane ... there were two of us.

MR SHEMBE: Now you are at the scene of the UDF people, what action did you do as Hlengwa, tell us that?  When you arrived there, now you arrived at the place, what did you actually do, tell us ...?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Even before I get to the point where I got Masulele, I went ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) the question that is put to you, don't talk about going before the point, first answer the question that your Counsel is putting to you.  The question was, when you arrived there what did you do?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: When I got there I shot, I killed.

CHAIRPERSON: How many shots?