Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, and apart from the ritual murders and the witches, witches' actions, anything else?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Those were the main ones, and these were the mere, major obstacles in our case.

MR VAN RENSBURG: So if I put that in another way, if the witches were removed and the ritual killings stopped, that would have gone a long way towards removing the oppression against yourself?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, I believe so.

MR VAN RENSBURG: You have heard the testimony of the professor who gave evidence yesterday, and he was of the opinion that at the time it was a popular belief that the chiefs were supporting the witches and therefore there was a political link between the witches and the chiefs, because the chiefs were part of the establishment.  Did you hear that?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, I heard that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Okay, now the question is, do you agree that that statement is not applicable in this specific circumstance, because the chief actually did everything in his power to expel the witches and to oppose them?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Well he did that because of the prevailing situation.

MR VAN RENSBURG: You can just agree or disagree with my statement.  The statement is, the chief opposed the witches.

CHAIRPERSON: No, that was not his evidence.  He said he agreed with requests and therefore issued the trek passes, as was the practice, that he had to what the people wanted.  That's how I understand his evidence.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I will rephrase that question.
	Did you expect the chief to do anything else against the witches, something that he did not do?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Could you repeat the question.

MR VAN RENSBURG: My question is, at the time, before the deceased was killed, did you expect the chief to do something about this problem with the witches, which he did not do?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: No.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN RENSBURG

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson.
	Sir, just for clarity's sake, can you - I'm trying to understand your link between the role of the witches, their connection to the chiefs and that link with Pretoria and how that was political in your view.  But to bring it back to the facts of this case, we've heard the previous witness say that the deceased didn't even know who Mandela was, that it had to be explained to him, that he didn't have any political understanding.  So can you explain to us how the deceased, how Mr Mahvunga had assisted or played a role in maintaining the structures in Venda, the political structures in Venda and thereby oppressed you and the community.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Well what I can say is that the deceased was involved in obstructing the activities.  It was when he obstructed the progress as far as political activities were concerned in those days.

MS PATEL: Alright.  And then, the previous applicant had said to us that the allegation about Mr Mahvunga being a wizard, only arose after there was intimidation from him regarding your political activity.  My understanding of your testimony is that it is in fact the opposite, that the allegation of Mr Mahvunga being a wizard had arisen prior to him interfering in your political activity.  Would you like to comment?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Demonstrating that the allegations started in a specific period?

MS PATEL: Yes.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: The allegations Mr Mahvunga, on his witch activities, well we grew up knowing that it was being indicated, especially from those people who knew, the elderly people, they gave examples which really concretises the issue.

MS PATEL: Was this common knowledge, was it discussed at the meetings that were held with members of the youth congress and the community at large?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, I'm trying to demonstrate that it was known that as it was being discussed, especially when it was necessary, just to make sure that the evidence was really concrete.

MS PATEL: And then just - you say you weren't at the meeting on the mountain where people were assaulted, where the girls were assaulted, is that correct?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, I wasn't in the meeting.

MS PATEL: Okay.  Can you tell us - just to move to the events on the 6th of April, how many people do you estimate from the community were present there, at the home of Mr Mahvunga?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Those people were many, maybe around 2 000.  Because as far as I understand, some neighbouring community people were there.

MS PATEL: Would you estimate it at 1 000, 2 000 or a couple of hundred people?  How many would you estimate it at being?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Around approximately 2 000.

MS PATEL: Okay.

ADV DE JAGER: Would you say all the people staying in the village attended this meeting, or were there some people staying at home?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Well, one could not judge and indicate that some people were at home.

ADV DE JAGER: It really doesn't help me, but okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel, have you still got a long time to go?

MS PATEL: No, no, I won't be much longer.  Thank you, Honourable Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, then we can continue.

MS PATEL: Okay, thank you.
	Then just the question of the petrol being taken to the home of Mr Mahvunga, this petrol was bought and you collected the money for it, not so?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I was one of those people who collected the money.

MS PATEL: Okay.  And do you know which petrol station the petrol was bought from and how far is this petrol station?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I know where it was bought.

MS PATEL: Okay.  How far is this petrol station from the house of Mr Mahvunga?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Do you mean in terms of kilometres?

MS PATEL: Yes.  Or how long would it take to walk there?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Not more than 25 minutes, to and fro.

MS PATEL: Do you have any idea at what stage that decision was taken to get the petrol?  Who made the decision?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: You mean the decision on buying the petrol?

MS PATEL: Yes.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: It was done there and then, immediately.

MS PATEL: No, but you were there for some four or five hours, so at what stage during that period?  Or was the petrol taken with, on the way to the house of the deceased?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Well that was after we had gone into the house, or around the house.

MS PATEL: After you had gained access into the house?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, yes.

MS PATEL: Alright.  Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou, have you got any questions?

MR NDOU: I do not wish to add anything, Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR NDOU

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you're excused.  We'll adjourn for lunch till about half past one.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS