Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-17

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Mentioned Mamela was a trained terrorist and leader of the group.  I conveyed the information to Gen Steyn as well as Col Andy Taylor to follow up.  I also requested the informer to do some follow-up work in order to determine where the hiding places of these members were.

MR VISSER: Excuse me, Mr Botha.  You are going a little bit too fast.  Would you please go a little bit slower?  Very well.

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: I was informed by Col, then Capt van Sittert on the 7th September 1986, it was a Sunday, that the informant of his and W/O Matie had given information that Mamela was seen in kwaMashu.  Mamela and his group had previously attacked a house whereafter they left certain arms at a certain house in kwaMashu to collect it at a later stage.

MR VISSER: Was this information that Cap van Sittert informed you about?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.
	Further information led that the group had that very same evening attacked, would attack the house of a black council member and the expectation was that they would fetch the arms for the purpose.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were they going to attack that evening?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: They would attack a house and this particular house that they would attack, we did not have the address of the house that they would attack.

MR VISSER: And you also did not know who it was that they would attack?

CHAIRPERSON: I thought you mentioned that they were going to attack somebody.  Wasn't he a council member or something?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Yes, a council member, but we did not have a name or an address.

CHAIRPERSON: What Council?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Black Council member, a Councillor.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, what Councillor, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, van Sittert didn't tell him.  We will see in paragraph 6 he was merely informed that the same group that was responsible for the Inkatha attack, was going to attack another house that evening, but no further information was given to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MR VISSER: Now after Col van Sittert gave this information to you was a request directed at you?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Col van Sittert requested me to come out to the kwaMashu police station to assist with the planning of preventative action with this expected attack that evening.
I contact Gen Steyn to inform him about the developments.  He said he was on his way.  At kwaMashu a discussion between Gen Steyn, Col van Sittert and myself took place during which Gen Steyn and I were brought up to date with the situation.  It would seem that two black members had observed the house where the weapons had been left behind.  They were in radio contact with Col van Sittert and we waited for work...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: You're going too fast for me, I'm sorry about that.

MR VISSER: Would you please repeat?  You say that a discussion took place between yourself, Gen Steyn and van Sittert and then he brought you up to date with the situation and the situation was that there were two members who kept vigil at the house where the weapons which you mentioned were left and they were in radio contact with Col van Sittert.

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And you waited for what?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Yes, we waited for word to come from these two black members.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these two black members, members of the police?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes you got a report that there was a house which they had been keeping under observation..

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: What happened then?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Mamela and three others were already in the house.  The reason why we did not act by arresting them in the house was that it would compromise our informer.  The reaction unit was also present.

MR VISSER: Will you please pause there?  Approximately how many members of the reaction unit can you recall were present there?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Chairperson, I cannot exactly recall whether it was one or two sections, there were many of them.

MR VISSER: Were there many of them?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

MR VISSER: With more than one vehicle?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR LAX: Just if I may interpose there, Mr Visser.  Just for our benefit, how many members would comprise a section?

CHAIRPERSON: You mean a unit.

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: I think it might be 6 or 8 per unit.
At some stage I noted that Col Taylor was also present.  Col Taylor apparently requested W/O Wasserman to come to the kwaMashu police station and after a while quite a number of policemen had come to the police station.  The plan was that we would wait until the suspects departed.  Their vehicle had already been described to us.

MR VISSER: That is by the two S A P members who kept vigil there?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.  The reaction force would then attempt to intercept the people after they had left the house.  The purpose was to arrest these persons but we would not endanger our own lives.   I think Lieut Tony Breytenbach of the reaction force was also there.  The execution of the action would be executed under the command of the Commander of the Reaction Unit.

MR VISSER: So it was not a Security Force action, is that what you're telling us?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Chairperson, quite correct.

MR VISSER: You would assist?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Yes, we would assist.

ADV BOSMAN: Excuse me, if I may just interpose here.  Mr Botha this Reaction Force, please tell us what it is.  I don't have clarity about that.

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Chairperson, the Reaction Force is a section or a division in the South African Police who would handle difficult tasks and I speak in terms of actions where people were armed and people had to be arrested.  These people were trained to fulfil those tasks, to perform those tasks.

MR VISSER: For example hostage situations?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

MR VISSER: People who received specialist training to deal with certain situations?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Specifically where the public is also endangered?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Would this also include terrorist activities, if this would endanger the general public?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.  Actions against armed terrorists or armed persons, armed political opponents.

CHAIRPERSON: So who was the Commander of the Reaction Unit on that occasion?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: I think that it was Lieut Tony Breytenbach.

MR VISSER: Just to prevent any confusion Mr Botha, sometimes this unit which you refer to now, the Reaction Force, they also referred to them as the Special Task Force?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That's correct.

MR VISSER: So if we refer to the Special Task Force it refers to the very same thing that you refer to here?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: That is correct.  By dusk a radio message came from W/O Bheki Tshabalala that the suspects had vacated the house and had departed with the mentioned vehicle.  We immediately departed in several directions in order to cover all escape routes.  Gen Steyn accompanied me in my vehicle.
	Wasserman travelled in a minibus with two black members, Taylor with his vehicle and the Reaction Force with two or more vehicles.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were you all at the time when you left?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Chairperson we had convened at kwaMashu police station for a few hours.

CHAIRPERSON: And was this house in that unit, in a unit close to the kwaMashu police station?

MATHYS CORNELIUS BOTHA: Chairperson, I cannot recall.  I myself did not know where the house was located but we were in radio contact with the two police persons who kept vigil at the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: Please continue.