Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

CHAIRPERSON: And now with regard to the Johannesburg Airport bomb, I understand your evidence that after - that's the former case, it was said that the bomb should be placed at the airport.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the pipe bombs?

MR PRINSLOO: At the various towns?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Was it ever said which town should be attacked?

MR PRINSLOO: I'm speaking under correction regarding which town it was, but at a certain stage it was said to people or said to the volunteers to which town they should go.  I wouldn't say in all cases but in some of the cases.

CHAIRPERSON: And in some of the cases they had to use their own discretion.  In the case where it would be said: "Go to Pretoria" for example, would it be said where in Pretoria the pipe bomb should be placed?

MR PRINSLOO: It could be that a commander could issue such a command.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know anything about that?

MR PRINSLOO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS VAN DER WALT: You gave the order that pipe bombs should go to a specific area, although you didn't mention any specific towns.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct, in the PWV area.

MS VAN DER WALT: In the PWV area.

MR PRINSLOO: Among others therefore then Pretoria and Johannesburg and the East Rand.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know who carried out the orders out further after you had issued them?

MR PRINSLOO: Johan and the other commanders who were present on the farm.

MS VAN DER WALT: When you speak of Johan, who do you refer to, Johan Smit?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Evidence was given by Mr du Plessis, Johan du Plessis that he called the people aside and gave them orders to go to specific towns, do you know anything about the orders which were received?  Was he present during the meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: He was there at the meeting of commanders so he would have received the same order and he would have conveyed it as such.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you still have quite a number of questions?

MS VAN DER WALT: There is a video that I would like to show.  Did you wish to conclude matters today?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we are going to finish.

MS VAN DER WALT: There is a video which I would like to refer to but I would need to find the specific places on the cassette because it's quite a long speech which was delivered by Eugene Terreblanche.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: No, no, I just wanted to mark the specific aspects of the tape which I wish to highlight.  I've consulted the technical team this morning and if I could have the opportunity to mark the specific points of interest on the video then it would facilitate matters because it's necessary.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you going to lead the witness on that?

MR PRINSLOO: I am going to lead him because he was at the meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you not question him regarding that now and then we could watch the video later?

MS VAN DER WALT: That would be rather problematic because then I would have to ask leading questions.  I would prefer that he have the opportunity to see the video himself.  I have personally watched the video, I know what is contained in it but I prefer that things be heard the way that Mr Terreblanche would have said them.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for 10 minutes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

NICOLAS MARTHINUS PRINSLOO: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Ms van der Walt, are you ready or do we need to make other arrangements?

MS VAN DER WALT: I cannot point out all the relevant aspects to the Committee right now because it is a video cassette of three hours long and it was suggested to me that I lead the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me just establish, are there any members of the legal representation who would object to the evidence being led according to this plan?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, there is no objection from me as Evidence Leader.  I have had a brief discussion with my learned friend and it doesn't appear that there would be any objection as long as the video be made available.

CHAIRPERSON: Well whoever wishes to watch the video after hours is free to do so.

MS VAN DER WALT: Then I would like to submit the video as an exhibit because I feel, with respect, and I understand your point, that there is quite a lot of work on your hands, but there are also applicants whose lives are in my hands and I must also do my job properly.  So I would prefer that the video be submitted as an exhibit so that the Committee in their own time can look at the aspects to which I have referred.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: I will also like to place the following on record.  I obtained these videos at a very late stage.  I did this with a single point which I which to prove to the Committee regarding exactly what happened and what the leader of the AWB would have said.  I wanted to use the video if he wanted to clear his name as he made known in the press.

CHAIRPERSON: Will that be Exhibit 1?

MS VAN DER WALT: Please, thank you very much.  Then I will lead it as follows.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is the video?

MS VAN DER WALT: It is in the video machine.  It is an original video.  I didn't have one made because I didn't have the time but I will submit it as an exhibit.

CHAIRPERSON: Those who wish to view it can approach me.

MS VAN DER WALT: This was the video which I wish to refer you to and discuss with you.  It was a video of the "Volks Kongres" which took place on 9 October 1993 in Klerksdorp.  Were you present?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I was.

MS VAN DER WALT: And is it correct that there was a parade which involved thousands of prepared soldiers in uniform and this took place in the streets of Klerksdorp?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And during this meeting Ferdie Hartzenberg addressed the meeting first?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And after that the leader, Eugene Terreblanche addressed the meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And that which does not appear on the video, it appears that Constand Viljoen would have addressed the meeting at a later stage?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: After Terreblanche had addressed the meeting -  rather let me put it this way, during his address, he also mentioned that he and some of his members of staff had had the opportunity to visit the military installation as well as the airforce and the navy, were you present during these visits to these various institutions?

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: That would be the South African Airforce.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct, I was present during all these inspections.

MS VAN DER WALT: And what did these inspections involve?  Did they show how all these institutions operated?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Furthermore, during the meeting Terreblanche said that he would never negotiate, that he would only negotiate over the barrel of a gun.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: After his address which took quite some time, certain resolutions were proposed to the meeting and that was undertaken by General Cruywagen and all the generals were present, the generals in staff along with all the members who were at the Volks Kongress, do you remember that?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I do.

MS VAN DER WALT: And then certain resolution were accepted by the members of the AWB and of course by the generals in staff and you had to place this on the minutes.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was one specific point which was made there and that was that Terreblanche said that on the 29th of May 1993, he gave the government and CODESA six months time to grant a Volkstaat or else "We",
that would be the AWB, 
"would take other steps".
Furthermore he said that that time had expired on the 29th of November 1993.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.