Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-26

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I am saying if there were other reasons except this mistake that I'm talking about, I was going to reveal that I was going to say it as it happened and if I was instructed I was going to reveal that I have nothing to hide.

MR JAMIE: And what really happened that evening is Andile will testify which is they were driving down 1st Avenue, you or one of the others called Nzonkwe, Nzonkwe.  Pro reversed his car drove towards you to find out what you wanted, rolled down his window and you then shot him numerous times, killing him?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I cannot comment about that.  I didn't even know his name I only got to know his name when I saw it written in some newspaper that I read.  Even this name Pro, I did not know him.  I am not lying when I say I did not know him.

MR JAMIE: I put it to you further sir, that even on your own version of what happened you shouldn't get amnesty from this tribunal?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: If it's what the tribunal sees as the right thing to do, I cannot say no.

MR JAMIE: I want to give you an opportunity to comment because I'm going to argue in due course that you shouldn't get amnesty on, among others, the following grounds.  You used excessive violence, you made no opportunity to make sure that it was police that you were firing at?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: When I turned I knew in my mind that I was shooting at the police, I did not give myself an opportunity to check further after turning.  All was on my mind was shooting.

MR JAMIE: And what you did was totally out of proportion to your supposed objective that evening considering that it was an innocent person involved?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes I agree, it was not the right thing to do but on my side it was a mistake and a very bad mistake in the eyes of the community.

MR JAMIE: Just one other thing, you testify that none of you were wearing balaclavas that evening but you said that you were wearing a long coat, is that correct?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR JAMIE: Andile will say that you or the people who fired including you wore balaclavas?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I disagree with that because I do not know how did he manage to see the people who were outside the car while he was inside the car.

MR JAMIE: I have no further questions for this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JAMIE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Jamie.  Ms Patel have you any questions?

MS PATEL: I do, thank you Honourable Chairperson.
	Mr Yekwani, you stated in response to a question from my learned colleague, Mr Williams, that your right to legal representation wasn't explained to you when our investigator, Mr Killian, approached you.  Do you stand by that response?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Will you please repeat your question?

MS PATEL: When Mr Killian approached you, our investigator who is sitting next to me, when he approached you for the first time, you stated in response to a question from Mr Williams here that your right to legal representation wasn't explained to you.  Is that correct?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: No one explained anything to me to that effect.

MS PATEL: That's not true, not so, Mr Yekwani?  In fact not only was it explained to you but they took you to your attorney before this statement was taken from you.  What is your comment on that?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is true and I was also present when that happened.

MS PATEL: Okay, so your right to legal representation was then explained to you?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes I was told that I should get a legal representative arranged by the State.

MS PATEL: But they took you to your attorney, the name of the attorney wasn't suggested to you, not so?  In fact they took you to Mr Wilkinson from the same firm as Mr Joshua?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MS PATEL: And furthermore you were not pressurised into making this statement, you made that statement voluntarily, not so?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MS PATEL: Okay and your application was tendered to us, your amnesty application was tendered to us some time after the statement was in fact taken from you, not so?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: That is correct.

MS PATEL: Thank you.  Just to move onto one or two other points.  What was your combat name?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: They used to call me Terror.

MS PATEL: Was that at any stage changed to Joe?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes it was changed when I arrived at Brown's Farm.

MS PATEL: Okay and was that after you had received your training up in Butterworth?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MS PATEL: Okay and at the time that you came back were you under the command of Mr Toyise?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I only went to Mr Toyise looking for a shelter, I did not want to stay at KTC because I wanted to work at KTC at that police station, the nearest police station at KTC so I wanted to carry my missions and go back to Brown's Farm.

MS PATEL: Are you saying Mr Toyise was unaware of your involvement in the SDUs?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes I can say so because he was seeing me for the first time when Mr Mbukumo went there to ask him to provide him with shelter.  I used to hear about him during those times when there is something is called Nyanga Bush but I hadn't seen him with my own eyes.

MS PATEL: Okay, the reason I ask you these questions is Mr Ntamo made a statement to us, it's on page 16 of the bundle, Honourable Chairperson, it's paragraph 4 and let me just read to you what Mr Ntamo said to us.  He says
"When Terror returned from Transkei he was deployed at Brown's Farm squatter camp and under the command of Mr Toyise and his combat name was Joe.  While Terror was under the command of Mr Toyise he once again came to take the firearm from him to carry out patrols."
But the gist of what I want you to hear is that Mr Ntamo says you were in fact under the command of Mr Toyise when you came back from training?  Is Mr Ntamo lying to us or has he made a mistake or what is the position?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I can say that it's how they regarded the position but with me that was not the case because when it comes to the missions I wouldn't include him and he didn't even know anything about my activities when it comes to attacking the police.  I never used to include him in my missions.

MS PATEL: Sorry, what did you mean when you said there that is how they might have seen it, is that what you said?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: It is because if they would see me staying at Brown's Farm it could have happened that he was a commander but the only commander that I used to recognise was the one who would be in my unit, the one who would be involved in the operation with me, that is the only commander that I can recognise.

MS PATEL: Was Mr Toyise not a commander at that time?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Not in the SDUs, I knew him as a community leader not in the SDUs.

MS PATEL: Alright perhaps Mr Toyise will give us the true position later.  Then furthermore, after the killing of Pro Jack, were you ever approached by Dumusani Lupengelo of the ANC security desk?  This is a few days after the funeral?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: The only person that I can think of Mzandwile Jacobs, I cannot remember seeing anyone except that.

MS PATEL: And Mr Dan Nkwatcho?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Dan was a comrade who was with me when I was going to the lawyers to make a statement.

MS PATEL: Do you know whether Dan Nkwatcho knew Comrade Langa?  Is he the one who arranged ...(intervention)

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes he knew him because we were working together even in the firm.

MS PATEL: Okay.  Now you say you were involved in the killing or in one other killing incident besides this one, is that correct?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct, in Khayelitsha, that's where the incident took place.

MS PATEL: Who did you report this to?