Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-07-07

MR VALLY: Just before we break, because there are certain documents I need to give my learned friend so that I can question Doctor Mijburgh on, we've heard that you people led a life of real luxury and when I say: "you people" I mean people at the various front companies.  Did you make regular overseas trips?

DR MIJBURGH: From time to time, not so regularly.

MR VALLY: Time to time, once a month, twice a month?

DR MIJBURGH: No, once or twice a year, perhaps three times a year.

MR VALLY: Did you in any way get any other benefits other than your salary from Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Mr Chair, at this point I just need to - sorry, let me ask one question or one issue rather.  Did you know Doctor Jan Lourens?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of the evidence he gave that he was asked to take a certain instrument which could inject poison overseas and deliver it?

DR MIJBURGH: I heard of his testimony, yes.

MR VALLY: Were you aware of that before that?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Did no-one ever mention to you that he was making those substances, those items?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Were you ever asked to deliver anything by Doctor Wouter Basson overseas?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Never?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: When you made trips overseas, why did you make those trips?

DR MIJBURGH: I mainly did marketing for Kowolsky International and I went to Poland for this.  We exported wine to Poland in mass.  Kowolsky was a large importer of machine equipment so it was mostly to meet suppliers.

MR VALLY: I see, so you went in your private capacity?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I went for the company.

MR VALLY: For Kowolsky, which had nothing to do with Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I went for Medchem.  I only went overseas once for Delta-G.

MR VALLY: And for Medchem?

DR MIJBURGH: For Medchem I went overseas a few times, I cannot remember how many times.

MR VALLY: Doctor Lourens testified that you had initially recruited him to join Special Operations.

DR MIJBURGH: I introduced him to Doctor Basson, yes.

MR VALLY: At whose request did you do this, did you do it out of your own initiative?

DR MIJBURGH: We were friends from school days, we were together at school.  He said that he was unhappy in the service of the Air Force and was interested in bio-medical engineering and he wanted to be transferred to SAMS and I introduced him to Doctor Basson.

MR VALLY: Did you ever work on any projects with him?

DR MIJBURGH: With Doctor Lourens?

MR VALLY: Doctor Lourens, yes.

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Did you ever do any projects at SRD?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: At Protechnic?

DR MIJBURGH: I was a director of Protechnic, a non-executive director so I was not involved directly in any projects.

MR VALLY: You were director at Protechnic?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: How did this come about?

DR MIJBURGH: I obtained a share in Protechnic.

MR VALLY: How did you come by this share?

DR MIJBURGH: I bought it.

MR VALLY: You bought a share in Protechnic?

DR MIJBURGH: Correct.  Not I personally, Medchem bought it.

MR VALLY: Medchem?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: When Doctor Lourens came back from a trip to the United Kingdom and informed both you and Doctor Basson that he almost poisoned himself by mistake, do you recall the conversation he had with you?

DR MIJBURGH: The first time I heard of it was when he testified in that regard.

MR VALLY: He never told you such a thing before?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Are you aware, and we've discussed it at great length, the shopping list, the anthrax and the cigarettes, the paraquat in the shampoo, you know that list I'm talking about?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes, it's a document which apparently was discussed.

MR VALLY: Do you have any knowledge of whatsoever?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Never?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Was it the first time you heard about it at this hearing?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Did you ever get back any reports on experiments carried out at RRL on primeds?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Involving the substances you manufactured at Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: You've never seen that?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Did you know any of the vets that worked at RRL?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes, I knew some of the people, I do not know exactly who you're referring to.  I knew some of them from the days of the Defence Force.  There was a Doctor James Davies who worked there who was in the Defence Force at the same time as I was.  I knew Doctor Immelman and Doctor Daan Goosen who was also a veterinary surgeon.

MR VALLY: Did you ever pay them social visits?

DR MIJBURGH: In the early days when Roodeplaat had just been established I was responsible as medical officer for the emergency services with them and that stage, I'm now talking about 1984, I cannot recall the date specifically ...[intervention]

MR VALLY: When you went there at that stage and you were the medical officer for them, what ...[intervention]

DR MIJBURGH: No, I was not their medical officer, I was responsible for the establishment of an emergency medical service.  I would have managed the service had there ever been an accident.

MR VALLY: And what were you preparing yourself for, what kind of emergencies?

DR MIJBURGH: At that stage at Roodeplaat it was not for anything specific, it was early days, they still worked from a farmhouse.  We would have acted on their behalf for industrial accidents.

MR VALLY: Nothing to do with Biological Warfare?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I knew that they were going to do research about Biological Warfare but these were in the early days of Roodeplaat.  I had no specific detail about what they did at that stage.

MR VALLY: What knowledge did you have as to what they were manufacturing or producing?

DR MIJBURGH: I had no knowledge of what they did.

MR VALLY: How could you prepare for medical emergencies if you didn't know what the items were?

DR MIJBURGH: As I said, we would have been prepared for industrial accidents.  I cannot remember what we were prepared for, I think it was in '84, perhaps early '85.

MR VALLY: Are you a director of Data Images?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Now, and you were not clear on this, but from the document we showed you Medchem Technologies changed its name to Data Image Information Systems and you advised us that - are you the sole director of Data Image Information Systems?

DR MIJBURGH: At the moment, yes.

MR VALLY: And at the time it was formed?

DR MIJBURGH: I'm not sure who else was, I think Doctor Ben van den Berg was also a director.

MR VALLY: And Doctor Basson?

DR MIJBURGH: No, he was never a director.

MR VALLY: Do you remember the contract whereby you had to put all the information acquired about Chemical and Biological Warfare onto compact discs or optical discs?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: That was your company that was given that contract?

DR MIJBURGH: Data Image had that contract, yes.

MR VALLY: And this is these famous disks which are in a safe which the Deputy President and someone else has a key to?

DR MIJBURGH: I do not know what happened to these discs.

MR VALLY: And the information that you put on the disks, what happened to it, the sources of the information?

DR MIJBURGH: The hard copies were destroyed, they were shredded.

MR VALLY: And who determined that they were destroyed, did you do so?

DR MIJBURGH: No.  There were people who worked for Data Images who did this.

MR VALLY: But this was your company?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Did you ever see what was on these optical discs?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Do you know of anyone who has seen what's on these optical discs?

DR MIJBURGH: The people who scan these things in.

MR VALLY: And who were the people who did that?

DR MIJBURGH: There was a Doctor Klaus Sotta who was involved, a Mrs Susan, I can't remember her surname at this moment.

MR VALLY: And Doctor Basson?