Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-14

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, Honourable Members, I would like to ask permission and apologise for this delay in this matter that is standing down.  I would ask permission if possible we can deal with the matter Ntuli, it's application number 3391/96, it appears in the thick bundle marked a, b and c.  It's the application on top, Mr Chairman, Mr Brian Kopedi is appearing on that matter and also then the application of Mokepe Bennet Msimange, that's application number 7371/97, Mr Chairman.  There are certain recommendations that Mr Kopedi would like to make in this regard, I'm sure he will inform you properly what the position of those two matters is.  Thank you for your indulgence, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, the Ntuli matter is the first one that is before us.  AM3391/96.  What is the position with this one, Mr Kopedi?

MR KOPEDI: Mr Chairperson, Honourable Committee Members, I will request that the matter of Ntuli be removed from the role and perhaps give a reason for that.  We have received word that he is no longer interested in this amnesty.  I wish to stress that I personally have not been able to talk to him but there is a letter which was faxed to our office by an officer in the Correctional Services Department who has spoken to Ntuli and who told us that he says he doesn't think he needs amnesty, he is out on parole.  As to whether the matter is to be struck off the role or what I will leave that in the capable hands of this Committee, but we are not in a position to proceed with that matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, you say you've got a letter?

MR KOPEDI: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got it in your possession now?

MR KOPEDI: Yes I do Mr Chairman.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, copies were made available to yourselves, it's a letter with a letterhead of the Department of Correctional Services on top of it, it consists of two pages and the second page from paragraph 3 is indication, apparently the applicant is not interested any more.  I can maybe just add I was informed by the ANC office that this applicant is also paroled as well.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes we have in fact been placed in possession of this letter which is from the Department of Correctional Services indicating that the applicant, Mr Ntuli, has been released on parole and as they put it in the letter, that he is not interested although I assume he is not interested in pursuing his amnesty application.  All it says that he is not interested in TRC as he is already released from prison and he is enjoying his parole.  Alright, well under those circumstances we can't compel him to proceed with his application, this of course is a voluntary process and we would accordingly strike the matter from the roll and make it clear that the consequence of that is of course that the applicant would not be in a position to renew the application.

ADV STEENKAMP: As you wish Mr Chairman.  In the second matter, we're dealing with Mokete Bennet Msimanga.  It's annexure to the thick bundle marked A, Amnesty Number 7371/97.
Mr Kopedi is also appearing in this regard.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kopedi, what is the position with this one?

MR KOPEDI: If I may, Honourable Chairperson, I'm going to ask for a postponement of this matter sine die.  The reasons are that all the applicants are not here as we speak and also the victim, there is one victim in this matter, the victim is not here and basically we did not have any application forms from the TRC other than one until Monday.  Now there hasn't been any proper consultation done with the applicants.  However, there has been certain developments.  The developments are that we first need to verify whether these people belonged to any ANC branch.  Our initial investigations have not been able to prove that and my perusal of the documents that are before you shows me that we might also have a problem in establishing certain facts which we need for this amnesty and it is on - well perhaps finally I should mention for the record's sake that on Monday it was indicated to me by the applicants that the location of this hearing puts them out of hand in that they have to travel to Johannesburg when this could have been brought to Boipatong or Vanderbijlpark because this is where other applications have been heard.  It is on those grounds that I will ask that this matter be postponed sine die, pending further representations of course from us and the applicants.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, may I be so rude, if you would allow me just - Mr Chairman, for the record, the applications concerned are not only that of Mr Msimange but it also concerns the application number 7353/97 which is the application of Mr Mzumbe, I'll spell that for the record, it's M-z-u-m-b-e, it's Mr Mzumbe, which will be the second applicant, Mr Chairman.  It also affects the application of number 7290/97 which is the application of Mr JM Patose, P-a-t-o-s-e, Mr Chairman.  It also effects the application of number 7123/97 which is the application of Mr EM Hlongwane, H-l-o-n-g-w-a-n-e, Mr Hlongwane.  And the last applicant, Mr Chairman, I unfortunately don't have the application number but the surname is Mr Tsubella E. - T-s-b-e-l-l-a E. - Edmond.  Those are the five applicants apparently, Mr Chairman, that are involved in this application.  Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any objection to the application for a postponement?

ADV STEENKAMP: I don't have any objections Mr Chairman, I'll leave it in the hands of the Chairperson, thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: In the matter of Msimanga and four others there is an application for the matter to be postponed sine die and Mr Kopedi who appears for the applicants has motivated the application.  We note that the applicants and interested parties need to follow up certain aspects which are material to the success or otherwise of the application and we are persuaded for those reasons that it would be in the interest of justice to have the matter postponed sine die in the circumstances.  Can we just in conclusion comment on the fact that one of the issues which was raised by Mr Kopedi relates to apparent inconvenience which the applicants are occasioned by the venue of this hearing.  We are not persuaded that is a sufficient basis for the postponement but the other grounds are compelling enough to justify that the matter be postponed.
	In the circumstances then, the matter of Msimanga and four others is postponed sine die.

MR KOPEDI: Thank you, as it pleases Mr Chairman, Honourable Committee Members, I'm most indebted and may I be excused?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you are excused, thank you Mr Kopedi.

MR KOPEDI: Thank you.
MR KOPEDI EXCUSED