Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

AMELIA NOMATSHAWE JOZI: My first request is peace.  It is an enigma to me that somebody I never even had a dispute with, would burn my house down.  This has happened, now there should be peace.
 Secondly, I did not get immediately sick after April, but it is in June, my ears started getting blocked and the doctor said I was under stress.  He took a Bible and started ministering to me and speaking peace to me saying I should have peace in my heart, because it is reflecting physically.
 I want peace, I even uses Barnabas' taxi's.  In November I started having fits.  I have strange ailments and the doctors asked me the same question, what is it that is breaking you down like this emotionally?  He said that it is because of a particular vein that is ailing me and it is because of emotional stress.  I have no husband, my child finished matric, the other is in standard eight, I don't know what I am going to do, if the Commission could help me please.

MS MAYA: Is that Ma'am?

AMELIA NOMATSHAWE JOZI: Let me finish off.  I cannot build my house up again.  It is difficult to continue living as we should.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am.    Pardon me for having skipped you Nomachule Ndlebe.

JEANETTE NOMACHULE NDLEBE: I have heard the evidence before us, it is true.  I have one request to the Commission.
 Since my house was burnt down, I started having a heart ailment.  I need some form of compensation, disability grant, I have no home.  My husband no longer stays with me.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am.  I will hand you over to the Chairperson, perhaps there are questions.

CHAIRPERSON: June Crichton?

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs Matshaya, Mrs Matshaya, can you hear me?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: We have heard from all of you about the incidents.  The one thing that is on the statements different, is the results, the court case.  Now I just want to ask some questions about the court case, very specific questions.
 Where was the case heard?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Maluti.

JUNE CRICHTON: And when was that?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: In 1990.

JUNE CRICHTON: Were you present at the hearing at that court case?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, I was present.

JUNE CRICHTON: Were you represented?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: I was not represented.

JUNE CRICHTON: Were none of the others represented either?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: No, they had no legal representation.

JUNE CRICHTON: There had been differing reports in the statements as to the length of sentence that was handed down.  In your statement you say that the sentence was 10 years, is that correct?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: No.

JUNE CRICHTON: How long was Ndleleni sentenced for?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: 10 Months.

JUNE CRICHTON: (Indistinct)

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: 10 Months.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntsiki?

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Thank you very much for this report ladies and gentlemen.  We are going to ask you a few questions, just to clarify the whole matter.
 If I follow this properly, trouble in Mangwo started in 1990 when the ANC was unbanned and other organisations.   Unrest in your area started in 1990 when political organisations were unbanned and leaders were taken out of jail.

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, sir.

ADV SANDI: Before then, was there unrest an Mangwo?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Between the two villages, Mangwo and Nopolele people would fight against each other.  Year after year people would pass away, maybe one person this side and one person that side.
 But what is good about the Youth League is that the children united under the ANC Youth League.  The two villages, at least the youth, stopped fighting.  There was unity.  There was a high school that was being built, the children would work together, there would be musical concerts.  Meaning that the Youth League brought unity within the youth.

ADV SANDI: I would ask that you would be brief Ma'am.  Some questions you can answer with a yes or a no.  In 1990, at Mangwo was there peace in Mangwo within Mangwo location, was there harmony?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: There was no disharmony.

ADV SANDI: ; These people that you are naming especially Mr Kekeni or Barnabas, are you referring to Barnabas Kekeni Ndleleni who is here today?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: The people that he worked with, did you know
them?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, they are from the village, and the people that helped him burn down our houses, were people who worked for him.

ADV SANDI: Did they work elsewhere, did they have other jobs?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: What kind of people?

ADV SANDI: These people who were working for Mr Ndleleni, did they have other jobs, other than working for him?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: No.

ADV SANDI: Therefor what you are saying is all this that happened where children were attacked by Kekeni's group, that would not have happened if you were not supporters of the ANC?  Is that so?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: that is what I think.

ADV SANDI: Are there other people who were not supporters of the ANC?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Because it was just being introduced, we cannot say whether, which side, people were on because the ANC was just starting.

ADV SANDI: Is there another political organisation that was existent in your village?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: We have never heard of it.

ADV SANDI: Was there a Headmen or a Chief?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Did this affect him, this matter?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes.  He was on Barnabas Ndleleni's side.

ADV SANDI: If I listen to you well, you say that this group was against the ANC and its supporters?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes.  I could say so because their deeds
reflected that.

ADV SANDI: Why do you think they were against the ANC and its supporters?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: As we elaborated earlier on, perhaps that is the way the ANC came, it was the way it was introduced, perhaps they wanted it to be introduced in another way, we also don't know.

ADV SANDI: The last question, would they say perhaps something when they were burning down your houses, would they verbalise their feelings against the ANC?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: When the children would go to the Headmen to ask for a venue for a meeting, he said that boys are not going to rule over him.
 The youth needed a venue to introduce the ANC.  The youth would then go to the other village, because they realised that they were not welcome or supported.

ADV SANDI: Mr Kekeni Ndleleni, how long has he stayed for in the village?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: It has been a while, but he was from another area very close to us.

ADV SANDI: But he has been staying there for quite a while?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, a long time.

ADV SANDI: Before there was no conflicts, before 1990 was there any conflicts between him and the villages?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: No.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Ma'am, thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you ladies and gentlemen.   We are now going to listen to Mr Barnabas Mbulelo  Kekeni Ndleleni, we just want to hear his views so that as the Commission we can, the Commission can weigh the evidence before us so that
we can reach the truth.
 Perhaps investigators from the Commission will come to your area again because we have to investigate and get to the truth as is, so that we can finish our work as a Commission.
 We thank all of you, you may step down, thank you.