Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-11

MR MACADAM: 3A tell us that we should do something about it and that the Goldstone investigation regarding the murder of Sergeant Dlamini should be misled, the Goldstone Commission investigation should be misled with regard to the killing of Sergeant Dlamini.  Major Mchunu further on said Gcina will be set free, because there wasn't any statement implicating him per se, but there was one that was directly implicating me and I told Major Mchunu that there was nothing I had to say to him.  If he was sent by Mdu Mzimela, then it's better for me to address Mzimela and he took me straight to Mzimela and said, "Son, we have to try by all means that the initial investigation(?) be distorted in all ways, so that by the time the docket reaches the Goldstone Commission, they are unable to investigate so to result in an arrest of some kind.  Major Mchunu is my mouth.  You should be free to talk to him, just as much as you are free to talk to me.  What he tells you, you should know that it's from me".  He went on to say I should be arrested.  I shouldn't worry, because I will be in detention just for a day, so that I appear at the SAP14.  SAP14 was a cell where all the detainees were registered.  He said I should appear there, so that the Goldstone Commission realise that I have been arrested and he asked me where would I be kept - where would I like to be kept and I told him that I'll go to Sundumbili, because it was better in Sundumbili, since Major Zama was there and I knew people there.  And we planned how we will destroy the evidence.  Major Mchunu brought a suggestion to our attention that we should change the cartridges at Sergeant Dlamini and he asked me how would it be if we take the cartridges off that scene of G1 and plant them in

MR MACADAM: /the

MR MACADAM: 3A the scene at Sergeant Dlamini and take those from Sergeant Dlamini and destroy them and I explained to him that it won't work out, because my gun was used in both scenes and brother Mdu Mzimela said - he said, "We will have to shoot so we can acquire cartridges that will be taken to the forensic laboratory in Pretoria", and I explained to him that I - I think my gun should be changed, the barrel of my gun should be changed, because in case it happened that they discover projectiles from the deceased, that will link my gun to such cases and Mdu Mzimela opened the cabinet in his office behind his desk and got a Z88 9mm which was just like mine and took the barrel(?) from that gun and said I should fit it in mine and we did that and I took out the magazine and gave it to Major Mchunu and I kept the magazine and ammunitions and I told them that at that scene of Sergeant Dlamini, there's - Constable Mthethwa's 9mm was used to shoot and he said there was no problem, they will get in touch with Constable Mthethwa and see how they could get out of that mess and we left the office, for Major Mchunu's office and we submitted a statement and my alibi and Constable Mthethwa's alibi and Israel Hlongwane's was(?) - we were three and Major Mchunu said, "Mbambo, this is a murder case.  The statements will have to be more than that to collaborate with your alibi.  Three statements are not enough" and we then decided we will say we were with our girlfriends and we get statements from our girlfriends and we will influence them to tell them what suits us, so that we build a strong alibi and we wrote the statement, I signed it and explained my involvement in the killing of Sergeant Dlamini and I was taken to Sundumbili Police Station and

MR MACADAM: /went

MR MACADAM: 3A went to Major Zama's office and he told me that they already called Mzimela and I should be free and I was taken to a cell and kept there and they said they won't lock the cell, because then I will gain access to anything I want to use, like phones, until the following day when I will appear in the Court of Law.   He left me and I was left there.  The following day Major Mchunu arrived to fetch me and we went to Mtunzini Court and he told me that I should not worry one bit.  "There was a docket that there will be a bail of 500 that I recommend, so you will be granted a bail", and when we got to Mtunzini Court, the prosecutor remanded the case and said I will be in detention and we left the court.  That got me so angry, because we agreed upon one thing that I will spend one night in detention and be released the following day.  Major Mchunu said to me I shouldn't be infuriated, he will take me to Sundumbili and phone Mzimela to make arrangements so that I could be released, because he did write the bail he recommended and he doesn't know why the prosecutor didn't want to grant me bail and I told that I'm not going to Sundumbili Police Station, I told him that I would like to see Mzimela and he agreed to that.  We left the court and we went to Esikhaweni Police Station.  We went to Mzimela's office and I told him that I was so infuriated about what took place, it was not fair at all and Mzimela said that I should cool down, he will get in touch with the attorney, Mkabela(?) and he will be the one who will take me to court and request an application, "So you may be released.  Go to Sundumbili and keep there and relax, don't worry".  And we went to Sundumbili Police Station and I was kept there.  That very

MR MACADAM: /evening,

MR MACADAM: 3A evening, Mr Mkabela arrived with his wife, brought me supper and we talked about the case and he took me into his ... (inaudible) ... and went to the bank and he withdrew 1 000 - he told me to withdraw 1 000 and I gave it to him and he said, "Tomorrow we will go to court.  You will be granted bail, so don't you worry".  The following day, truly Major Mchunu arrived at we went to Mtunzini to court.  I wasn't taken to the cells, I was outside with Mr Mkabela.  We went to Spar to buy some food and we got back.  You see, Mtunzini had two courtrooms.  One courtroom was in session and the other one was empty.  We went inside the other one which was empty.  The magistrate was already sitting on his chair.  What I realised and noticed was that the prosecutor was not there and I never went into the witness stand.  Mr Mkabela didn't have his gown(?), his uniform and nothing was discussed.  It was just told to me that I will be granted bail for R500 and that happened and I left for Esikhaweni.

MR MACADAM: Subsequently the case was taken over by the South African Police and you were put back into custody where you remained until you were convicted in the Supreme Court.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR MACADAM: I've got no further questions, Mr Chairperson.

MR MACADAM: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MACADAM

CHAIRPERSON: Have you decided if anybody wishes to cross-examine Mr Mbambo and if so, who will proceed first?

MR MARITZ: I'm sorry, Mr Chairman, we haven't at all, but I - it's Maritz on record - I don't have any questions, thank you.

MR DE JAGER: I don't have questions neither.

MR VISSER: No questions either.
/MR   (?)
3A MR   (?):   Mr Chairman, we don't have any questions to this witness either, thank you.

MR LASICH: Mr Chairman, obviously I have a few questions.  Mr Mbambo, I'm assuming you know who I am, you've been sitting here during these proceedings.  What sentence was handed in respect of the crimes for which you were convicted, I think it was last year or the year before?

WITNESS:   75 years.

MR LASICH: Could you indicate, you mentioned that there are other crimes for which you're applying for amnesty as well, the number of crimes and what sort of crimes they are?

WITNESS:   Those are operations crimes.  That I have already explained in my statement where we killed the ANC members.

MR LAX: Your speaker is stuck.

MR LASICH: Thank you.

MR LAX: There you go.