Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1999-12-13

UNKNOWN: Sir, I'm going to say to you then that my instructions from close family members of the deceased is that the area, this Dalmeni Farm, initially belonged or was inhabited by IFP and then later on it became an ANC stronghold and that Ngobo had at that time when the IFP was dominant in the area, he had acquired a lot of property which he sold after the IFP moved out of the area, and one piece of this property was actually sold to Mavis and Oswald.  And the only relationship that the deceased had with Ngobo was the fact that they had to pay him in monthly instalments for this property.  Further to that they had no other relationship, save for a transaction, a sales transaction that took place between them.  What would you say to that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: When I arrive in the area I did not buy and land or property from Mr Ngobo, I do not know of any payments that were made to Mr Ngobo by any person.

UNKNOWN: Yes but Sir, I'm putting it to you that the deceased had no relationship with Ngobo, who was an Inkatha leader like you said, save for the fact that they had a sales transaction.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: When I saw the firearm on the deceased that he had obtained from Ngobo, I decided that they were in cahoots with Mr Ngobo in the attacks that were carried against us.  I did not know, or it was something I did not known, that they had anything with regards to property.

UNKNOWN: So how did you then link the weapon to the attacks that were taking place, when you never saw the deceased attacking anybody?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Mr Ngobo used to launch attacks against us and the deceased should not in my opinion, have been in contact or had anything to do with Mr Ngobo, because of the situation in the area.  When I saw the firearm I immediately linked it to Mr Ngobo who was responsible for attacks on us.  Mr Ngobo also told us to leave the area because it did not belong to the ANC.  He ordered us to go to the Transkei where the ANC dominated.

UNKNOWN: Fine, but we're looking at this particular incident.  You could not identify that firearm as being that of Ngobo's did you?  Is there any specific characteristic that particular firearm had, which you would say that it came from the Inkatha side of this entire thing?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: We questioned the deceased also because initially he had informed us that he had no firearm, but when the comrades returned with the firearm from his home, he admitted that he had received it from Mr Ngobo.  Mavis also confirmed this.

UNKNOWN: Is it correct, and according to my instructions from quite a few of the witnesses, that you actually operated or used your position as chairperson to intimidate and instil fear into the people that lived in this Section 3?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I do not recall intimidating anyone or telling them, ordering them to leave, or ordering them to do anything against their will.  The meeting that I had called was to the benefit of the community.  I cannot recall using my position as you say.

UNKNOWN: Sir, those were my instructions that I received this morning, but I will show it to you in writing now.  If you turn to page 17 of the bundle, it's a statement by Sipho Mapumulo, paragraph (c) thereof reads
"Clarence further threatened me that if I failed to go to the meeting I would face consequences."
Do you remember saying that to Sipho Mapumulo?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I do not recall that because he had just arrived in the area.  I do not recall forcing or intimidating him to attend a meeting.

UNKNOWN: Then I would refer you to page 25 of the bundle, this is a statement by Jabulani Moses Ndlovu.  He says
"On the 7th day of April '91, a Sunday, I bought two beers for my friend Mabuyisa, and returned home.  Clarence Majola came to my yard and told me to attend the meeting.  He threatened me that if I did not attend the meeting it would be my last day.  Although I was inebriated I attended the meeting as my wife begged me to for the sake of my family's protection."

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Mr Ndlovu's home was close to mine, I do not remember forcing him to go attend the meeting.  I did request people to attend the meeting but it was not out of force.  That was a meeting for the community and it was held during broad daylight, there was nothing sinister about it.

UNKNOWN: So are these people then lying about you?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That is not true, what they are saying is just not true.  They were not forced to attend the meeting.

UNKNOWN: Did you directly participate in the assault upon Clarence - sorry, Oswald.  Did you directly participate in the attack on Oswald?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, I also participated in assaulting him because everyone who was there did.

ADV SIGODI: How did you assault him?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: He was assaulted with a sjambok.

ADV SIGODI: What how did you, what did you do to him? Did you stab him?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I also used the sjambok.  There was just one sjambok that was circulated amongst the comrades.

ADV SIGODI: But then you said that's the only thing that you did to him.  You did not stab him?  Because he was found with a gunshot and some stab wounds.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: He was shot by Mbuyiselwa Mlangene.  I only assaulted him with a sjambok.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you and the other ANC members also assault this woman with a sjambok?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that normal behaviour for men in the ANC, to behave like that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It was not normal, but it was out of the anger we felt towards the attacks that were carried against us by the IFP.

UNKNOWN: Did you ever bother to ask the rest of the community or the other ANC members who were there for a longer period of time than yourself, about what the deceased's political affiliation were?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I was arrested immediately thereafter.  I could have enquired if I was not arrested, but prior to that I did not enquire, I only realised it on that day that he was an IFP member.

UNKNOWN: But you didn't ask.  I mean you lived there for a short period of time yourself, you didn't query from other people, even at the time before giving the instructions to kill the deceased.  You never found out, you never asked anybody what were they, IFP, ANC.  You used your own discretion and made up your mind for yourself, is that correct?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: All the comrades were in agreement that he was an IFP member.  When the weapon was brought to the meeting everyone felt that he was an IFP member because the firearm belonged to Mr Ngobo.  The meeting was all agreed that he was an IFP member.

CHAIRPERSON: So this whole decision was taken because he had to a firearm that had once belonged to Mr Ngobo.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Sir, is it not correct that what really worked the crowd up was when you said to them that these two people, the deceased', were actually involved in witchcraft?  And that is when everything got out of hand at this meeting.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That came up when the umuti was brought up.  That is when it was suggested that we should to the Inyanga in Eshowe.  That was just one of the factors.

UNKNOWN: Yes, but my question to you is this.  Initially you whipped Oswald, right, and then you started telling the crowd that these were witchdoctors, that they were involved in muti, and that's when the crowd got angry and that's when they joined you in your attack on the deceased.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It was after the umuti and the firearms were found at their home that the people wanted to assault them.  That was because of the firearm and the umuti.

ADV SIGODI: Which came first, was the deceased first shot and then assaulted or was he first assaulted and then shot?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: He was first assaulted.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what did you say?