Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-02-11

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Are we ready to proceed?

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman, it is the 11th of February 1998, we continue with the matter for amnesty on Mr Malevu, Tanda and Shiceka.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we proceed with the next applicant, can we go back to Mr Tanda?
	You are still under oath Mr Tanda.

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you live then, at the time of the incident?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: It was at Maskopase, New Castle.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I've forgot to put on my earphone, I didn't hear the answer as a result.  Will you repeat it please?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I was staying at Maskopase, a township in Newcastle.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that your home?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: It wasn't my home, it was a home for one of the PAC members.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I wanted to know where you ordinarily lived? I know for you to carry out an attack in Newcastle you had to be in Newcastle, I wanted to know where you ordinarily otherwise lived.

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: My home is at Moleteno in the Eastern Cape.

CHAIRPERSON: The purpose of coming to Newcastle was specifically to come and carry out that kind of operation?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Anybody with questions flowing from that?  Mr Prior?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I have no questions flowing from that but if I may be permitted to ask one question concerning the aspect of infiltration and I tell the Committee why.  It's because ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, you don't have to tell us.

ADV PRIOR: As the Committee pleases.
	Mr Tanda, I omitted to ask you yesterday on this aspect.  During other hearings, St James and particularly the Heidelberg Tavern attack which occurred in December of '93, there was a strong suggestion made by various victims and other witnesses that APLA in planning these attacks, had been infiltrated by the security forces, whether that was the security branch of the police or military intelligence of the army.  Were you aware or did you hear anything like that especially in respect of your own operation in Newcastle?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I haven't.

ADV PRIOR: You indicated to the Committee yesterday that you were responsible for the security of the operation, code names were used, vehicles that couldn't be traced back to you were used and so forth, yet you were arrested the very next day after the operation and it seems that within a few hours the police had recovered the weapons, the ammunition, where you had stayed was pointed out, the people that you had contact with were all arrested within a few hours of the actual operation.  Did that cause you to believe that you had been infiltrated and that information had been passed to the police prior to your arrest?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I would not bind myself to say that police had information before we were arrested or after we had been arrested.  But however, what I know is that during the interrogation one of our brothers by the name of Buthalezi went out to point out firearms and other things.  I don't want to accuse anybody at the present moment, for example saying so and so is working for the white people.  I didn't have time to look for such information.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

<UNKNOWN>: I've got no questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Tanda.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman, learned members of the Committee.  Can I call on Andele Shiceka to be sworn in to give evidence Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, how do you pronounce yourself, Mr Shiceka?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Sorry?

CHAIRPERSON: You are Mr Shiceka?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes.

ANDILE SHICEKA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may be seated.
	Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Shiceka, you were convicted by the Criminal Court in May of last year, of 1994.  Mr Shiceka, you were convicted in May of 1994 of murder, attempted murder, unlawful possession of machine guns and unlawful possession of grenades and you were sentenced to an effective term of imprisonment of 25 years, is that correct?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is it also correct that you are applying for amnesty in respect of all these offences which you were convicted of?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: These offences flow from the incident at the Crazy Beat Disco on the 14th of February 1994.

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: When you and your co-applicant, Walter Tanda entered the Crazy Beat Disco and fired ammunition into the disco from your automatic rifles, is that correct?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, Mr Chairman, if I could refer to pages 41, in fact Mr Chairman, 38, 39 and 41 of the record.
	Mr Shiceka, you gave evidence at the criminal trial, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now I'm referring to page 38 of the Judgement. The Court says that you denied that you were involved in the events at the disco.  The Court went on to say that you alone of the accused admitted that you were a member of APLA and that you were in fact in Newcastle about the business of APLA at the time that this incident took place.  Do you remember that?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes, I do remember.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now today in your amnesty application before the Committee you are now admitting, confessing to your involvement in the Crazy Beat Disco killing, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So at Court you weren't being truthful when you denied being involved in the incident?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is it correct however that you are a member of APLA?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: When did you become a member of APLA?

ANDILE SHICEKA: It was 1989.

NORMAN ARENDSE: 1989?  Did you receive any training and if so, where did you receive that training?  Was it inside the country, outside the country?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Outside the country.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Were you involved in any APLA incidents before the Newcastle incident, before the 14th of February 1994?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes, there were other operations in which I was involved.  Yes, I was involved in some operations.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Have you applied for amnesty in respect of those operations?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now just before we get to the incident, just some personal details.  How old are you now?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I'm 28 years old.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Are you married?

ANDILE SHICEKA: No married.

ANDILE SHICEKA: I have no children.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Where you ordinarily reside?  Where do you hail from?

ANDILE SHICEKA: In Cape Town, Guguletu, 72 number 11.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Were you born in Cape Town?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you go to school?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you finish school or did you leave school before you could finish school?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I did finish school.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Where did you go to school?

INTERPRETER: I'm sorry, excuse me, the mike was off.

CHAIRPERSON: When does one finish school?  Shouldn't you ask him up to what standard he attended school?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I didn't get the translation though.

ANDILE SHICEKA: I went up to standard 10.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you.
	Thank you Mr Chairman.
Mr Shiceka, you heard your co-applicant Mr Tanda testify that he was introduced to you at Umtata, is that correct?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And he was introduced to you by Umzala Power Jones, one and the same person, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is it at that meeting - and that would have been in January of 1994, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: That's right.