Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-18

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlupheki Ntshinga would you please go next to Mr Bishop Tiya. Before I pledge the oath, I would like to express that I have known you for quite a long time. I would like you to take an oath, both of you. Firstly, I would like to say that I have known you for quite a long time as I have already said, I have also known you for the businesses as you are a taxi owner. You've been involved for quite a long time with the Taxi Association. Your son whom you have brought up has paid the biggest price when our country was under stress. I am quite certain that although it was very painful for you, and when all this took place, I am quite sure that when you see that we are all liberated presently, you will feel proud about your child who was also part of the struggle, because we know everybody was going to forward and looking forward to this liberation. Your son paid the price and I am sure everybody is part of the people who are being thanked for what has happened. It is a day for which you can celebrate and we hope that for coming here and giving evidence it would be very satisfying for you and you would be consoled for what has happened to you. Mr Ntshinga is also known to me as he is now sitting next to you, he is in a red suit. I also knew him for quite a long time. He always helped and assisted the young and the youth to cross the borders. He was also a herbalist and he used to say the children whom he helped where - his initiates. You'd go across with them and then you would come back alone, with a different lot of children and all this he was doing to be smart for the Boers, so that they do not understand what was happening, because he would pretend as if he was going along with the others and he would pretend as if he was going to get some medicine herbs and would come back with another load. Having taken another group of the recruits across the river. When I was still at Norwood, they used to ask me when I have known you, I always told them that we have been one of the staunch members of the Organisation and you played a very big role in the struggle. We know you were one of the best during that period. I'd like all of you to take an oath at the same time so that we can be able to get you going without having to take you one by one. Please stand up.

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: (sworn states).

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi to lead the witnesses.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson. I just want to make sure that on the Tiya family side, we would like to know who is giving evidence - is it the mother or father who is going to give evidence, because during our lunch Mrs Tiya stated that although it is Bishop Tiya who has given the statement he preferred that she will take over and give evidence because she is trying to protect her husband who is ill, is that so Mrs Tiya.

MRS TIYA: Yes, it is so.

MR SANDI: Could you please take an oath. Please stand up.

MRS TIYA: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mr Ntshinga did you say you would be the first to speak?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: I'm not going to say much because Aga was attending school here, you could see he was deeply involved in politics, he came and stated and told me that he would be leaving - he will skip the country and this was very difficult for me to go and report to the parents because he said he was going to fight for the country. I was a close friend to the family, but at the end I had to give him the information of how he can go and ship. I'm not quite sure how he did ship, it was quite a long time when he left, when I approached the family and gave them this information but I stated that I didn't know his whereabouts, but the father went out, he went to Lesotho, but you could not ...(indistinct) that the ANC members will never tell and give information of the person's whereabouts, this happened also with the Tiya family. After a long time, I was also not aware of what was happening now - we saw him coming at about nine in the evening. I cannot state how, which route he did follow, but I know that he came through the Ngobo route, he took a car from there and he came to my place. I hid the child from the father, I didn't even tell the father that I am keeping his son, I kept him for five years because I knew that this would affect the family, especially the mother because he could have bore a grudge against me. We stayed for quite a long time. At a certain period we realised that he was communicating telephonically with the other Comrades and in Zimbabwe there was another group of Comrades and he stated that he would like to get some money. He was given orders that he could go to Swaziland so that he can get some money from the other Comrades. When he went there he struggled to get the ANC members, but he couldn't get any of them. Everybody was hiding from the police so it was difficult to get them. Most of the time the police would go after you and harass the family to find out where the child or anybody who has gone to but at the end the Aga who was staying with me at the time gave us the information of how he crossed the borders. There was a day when we just found everybody was on edge because the police was surrounding the area at my place. We were told and given orders to lie on our stomachs, we were so shocked and we were in fear because they happened to know that I was hibernating one of the youth who was involved in the struggle. There were Boers amongst the police and then they arrested the child.

MR SANDI: Mr Ntshinga were you also arrested?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Yes, I was also arrested.

MR SANDI: Can you please explain what happened inside the cells?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Yes, I could state what happened to me. I was arrested the same day when Aga was arrested. We found Dangani and Myeki who said I had been a liar for quite a long time so they took me to the - Ngqeleni Police station I was then assaulted by the police, the used rifle butts to assault me and this ear on my right is not working. I was severely beaten up, they kicked me, they would take their rifle and put it through my anus, and they would say they would blow my head because I was a liar. Aga was also assaulted severally and they used to screw his testes and take his genitals and squash them. They alternated amongst themselves and would beat him severely until he lost consciousness. The police was leading all these brutalities  was Mr Mtabeni.

MR SANDI: Is he still alive?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Yes, he is in Butterworth. He is the one who is a Station Commander in Butterworth.

MR SANDI: Where you detained in December?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Were you arrested because it was said you were keeping Aga?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Yes, I stayed over a month in the cells.

MR SANDI: What happened?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: When I stayed there for quite a long time, until they were satisfied that I had given all the evidence that they wanted.

MR SANDI: What happened, how were you released?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: Mr Tsebesa is the one who was campaigning that I should be released.

MR SANDI: Do you mean Mr Tsebesa was he your lawyer?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: No, he wasn't. I would just hear him broadcasting over the radio, all over and stating that I should be released.

MR SANDI: Do you mean this Mr Tsebesa was here in the morning?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: No, I think he is the one who was - who is a lawyer, I'm not quite sure whether he is the same one - the one that was here in the morning.

MR SANDI: Is it the one who was here this morning?

MHLUPHEKI ELIAS NTSHINGA: No, I didn't see him.

MR SANDI: OK. Let's go on and proceed with your evidence Mr Ntshinga. What else did happen to you when you were arrested and detained?