Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-13

MR WILLS: But is it not so that there are essentially three areas in respect of which you are applying for amnesty, and the first would be that involving the death of a - sorry  Chairperson ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: On Bongane Ntombela, is that the one?

MR WILLS: That's the third and the last incident.  Okay, that occurred in 1991.  Do you recall that?   That's the last incident, and after that incident, soon after that incident you were arrested and you've been in custody since that incident, apart from a short period when you were out on bail.  Is that right?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Then you're also applying for amnesty for the death of a certain Msomi, a person by the name of Msomi, who you will tell the Committee you believed was a reverend, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: That, according to my instructions occurred during some time in 1989 to the best of your recollections, is that right?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes.

MR WILLS: And then the other incidents you are applying for amnesty concern attacks when you were stationed at Ndwedwe and there are attacks on ANC areas, and there are two incidents there, there's an attack which we're going to get into the details of in respect of where a pregnant woman was killed and a black male.  That's the first incident, do you confirm that?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: And then the second incident involved what I can loosely describe, an attack on a meeting that was taking place at a school in Ndwedwe, is that right?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: Now to my knowledge as your legal representative, that is the extent of your amnesty application.  Is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And these Ndwedwe incidents occurred in 1990, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct?

MR WILLS: To the best of your recollection?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: So logic dictates that if you were trained as a special constable in 1988, then your amnesty application deals with issues that occurred after 1988, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) during 1988, yes.

MR WILLS: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson.  There's just also one issue that I must clear up in case I've mislead the community in this regard, and that is the application in respect of the death of Bongane Ntombela will also include an application in respect of the attempted murders in that incident.  Is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Wills, on a point of clarity, has he applied for the murder of the pregnant woman?  I don't recall coming across that incident in his formal application.

MR WILLS: Thank you Ms Committee Member.  Basically his involvement there, as will become apparent, is minimal, but it is included in what was described in his application as the attacks on the ANC in the Ndwedwe area.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

MR WILLS: I see it's just about 1 o'clock.  Possibly this is a time to take the adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I see that it's correct, it's on 1 o'clock.  We will now take the lunch adjournment.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Ndlovu I remind you that you're still under your former oath.

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes thank you.

MR WILLS: Thank you members of the Committee, Mr Chairperson.  Before lunch Mr Ndlovu, we were talking about the type of fighting that you were involved in before you went to the special - the training to be special constable in Koeberg, do you recall that?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes I do.

MR WILLS: Now I want you to describe to the Amnesty Committee the type of fighting it was, and what weapons were used at that stage.

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Knives and butcher knives, stones.

MR WILLS: Did - before you went for training as a special constable, did you ever fight with firearms, guns?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: No.

MR WILLS: Now you went during 1998 to be trained as a special constable.  How was it that it came about that you went for this special constable training?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: There at Woody Glen people who were known very well that they are working for the IFP truthfully, and they were actually volunteering or give themselves to fight for IFP.  We were also taken to be part of them, it was myself, Siphiso Ntuli, if my memory serves me well, and Walter Zulu, and we went through it in Maritzburg.

MR WILLS: Yes and then you eventually went down to Koeberg were you were trained as special constable.  Can you briefly tell us what type of training you received?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: We were trained we must shoot the 500 shotgun.

MR WILLS: Yes, and what were you trained about the ANC and the UDF?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: And it just happened that on Sundays in the evenings we would actually be shown videos whereby we will be shown torture that was used by the UDF people whereby the IFP people were burnt and all the other things.  And all that we were shown and that actually wasn't good on us, and therefore it was indeed the truth that these people are the problem and we should do away with them.

MR WILLS: Now were you taught about detective work or normal police work?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Please repeat the question.

MR WILLS: I'm asking you if you were trained in the areas that one would expect a policeman to be trained in, for example in either detective work or other types of normal policing activities?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: No we were special constables.

MR WILLS: Now you completed your training and then you returned to Maritzburg for a short while, and then you were sent up to Ulundi, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes Chair.

MR WILLS: And then a colonel Dube posted you to, for a short while, at Kwamakuta, and then afterwards you were posted to Ndwedwe.  Is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes it is.

MR WILLS: Now why was it decided that you were to be posted to Ndwedwe?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: I will just elaborate on that Chair.  It wasn't myself only that was sent to Ndwedwe.  When we arrived there at Ulundi, there were three of us and we found others who were actually also from Maritzburg, but who left before.  There were about 30, all of us were 33.  And colonel Dube said, who was in charge of Reaction Unit by that particular time, our job is mainly at Ndwedwe whereby we have to finish violence because the situation there is bad and tense.  It was the middle - those people there were bothered by their comrades.

MR WILLS: Now when you got to Ndwedwe, who did you receive instructions from, was it from police persons or was it from other persons?  Because as I understand it you went to Ndwedwe as a police unit, is that correct?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: Yes.  There Mr Mfayela was working with the Kwa-Zulu Police offices.  He would come and speak to Martin Kanyele who was one of the Caprivians whom we were working there, and constable Mtaba, his nickname was Makobute.  He's one of the people, one of the Caprivians.  Those are the people who were giving instructions, and Mfayela whom that we were directly working with.

MR WILLS: Now this person Mr Mfayela, was he a policeman?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: No he was not.  He was just the leader there at Ndwedwe.

MR WILLS: What - in respect of what was he a leader?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: He was the IFP leader there.

MR WILLS: So your evidence is to the effect that the IFP leader was giving you and the other persons in the Kwa-Zulu Police instructions as to what your duties should be?

BERTWELL BHEKI NDLOVU: He wasn't actually giving me the instructions directly, he used to give those who are my superiors.