Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-14

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, today being the 14th of April 1998 we proceed with the amnesty applications of
Kupani Diamoneng, amnesty application 3828/96
		Vuyasile Brian Madasi, amnesty application 6077/97
There was a third applicant:
Themingkosi Diesel Sijone, amnesty application 5933/97
I understand from his attorney, Mr Mbandazayo that he has withdrawn his application and I also understand that Mr Ntintili had also applied for the Yellowwoods Hotel matter under amnesty application 6539.  That application forming part of the bundle in the King William's Town attack.  I understand from Mr Mbandazayo his attorney, that Mr Ntintili is not present today, he's ill and has a doctor's certificate to that effect.
	May I indicate to the Committee that Mr Madasi is represented by Mr Mbandazayo and the indication is that he will lead the evidence or lead the application.  Mr Mthembu is acting for Mr Diamoneng. 
	I, Advocate P C Prior is the evidence leader and I will representing the interests of Mrs Jerling: J-E-R-L-I-N-G, who is the victim.  Her son was killed in this attack.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee is unchanged with myself, Judge Wilson as Chairman and the Members are Mrs Gcabashe, Mr Lax and Mr Sandi.
	Mr Prior, can you give us any explanation as to why we starting this hearing after one rather than at 9H30 as arranged?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, there was some difficulty this morning with Mr Mbandazayo's client, Mr Madasi.  He was brought substantially late in the morning.  The prison authorities had brought another applicant, Mr Siyoni in his place.
	I don't know what led to that confusion, however he was brought, I think, towards 11 in the morning and then Mr Mbandazayo indicated that Mr Madasi had not yet signed his affidavit which had been recently taken, on the Sunday and the affidavit had to be transcribed and attested to by him.  So unfortunately Mr Chairman, those are the reasons I can advance for the later start in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Why was this only done on Sunday?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, we are not in control in the bringing of prisoners to East London.  We have been communicating with the prison authorities and for instance Mr Madasi is coming from Cape Town and they have been brought very late.  For instance, there is another applicant Mr Chairman who was also brought yesterday evening.  I have not even consulted with him and he's also going to - I still have to go and consult with him.
	We have those problems Mr Chairman, that these applicants were not brought to East London prison timeously for us to be able to consult with them.  The other one I'm referring to is from Umtata.  I even went to Umtata Mr Chairman, and I was told he has been transferred to East London, came back and when I arrived in East London they told me: "That's not true, he's still in Umtata".  
	He only arrived yesterday evening.  So we have those problems regarding those who are in custody Mr Chairman.  Those who are not East London are transferred late to East London prison to enable us to consult with them.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I was told, and I can't vouch for it in any way of course, that Mr Madasi had been here since the 6th.

UNKNOWN: I understand from the prison authorities, the leader of the Correctional Services, that he was here on the 6th in East London.   I don't know at which facility he was held but the officer in charge of the detachment is present Mr Chairman, if you need any clarification from him.

CHAIRPERSON: I trust that if there has been a lack of communication and attorneys have not been informed, arrangements will made that they informed as soon as possible.  On the other hand I equally well assume that attorneys will enquire of the prison authorities and make sure that they do get informed as soon as possible.  I think be can now continue with this hearing.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you calling the first applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I just wanted to confirm that I was appearing for Mr Madasi, Mr Siyoni who has since withdrawn his application, Mr Ntintili who has been booked off by the doctor.   If you remember he testified last week but he did not complete the hearing last week because he was ill, he fell ill last week.  I've been told that he will be available after the 15th to give evidence.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  The applicant may be sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: Which one?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Madasi Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And you confirm that Mr Siyoni has withdrawn his application?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I confirm that Mr Siyoni has withdrawn his application for amnesty in this matter, thank you Mr Chairman.

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: (sworn states)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Madasi, do you confirm that the affidavit which before the Committee was made by you and you adhere to the contents thereof?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I'll go to specific paragraphs of the affidavit and I would request the applicant to explain certain things to the Committee.  Mr Chairman, I would request the Committee to turn to paragraph 6 of the affidavit.
"Comrade Xomiso told me to go to Fort Beaufort and advised me that I would be met by Comrade Zuko at King William's Town, who will provide accommodation for me.  He advised me that the target had already been identified and it is Yellowwoods Hotel in Fort Beaufort.  He told me that comrade Diesel will give me further	 information regarding the target as he is from the area.  As far as I know no other person knew about the target except myself, comrade Xomiso and Diesel.  Comrade Xomiso told me that the place must be attacked on Friday or Saturday night"
	Now Mr Madasi, are you in a position to explain to the Committee whether Xomiso told you the reason why the Yellowwoods Hotel has to be attacked and why was it going to be attacked on Friday or Saturday night?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: In answering your question Sir, he said that they Yellowwood Hotel was frequently visited by security members, security force members.  He said that they would go there every Friday and Saturday.  He then stipulated that we must go and attack the place on Friday or Saturday.  I am not sure if I've answered you clearly.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, you've answered me.  Now, at paragraph 7
"As ...[indistinct] arrived in Fort Beaufort, I was accommodated at Mxelo administrative area in Alice.  I was later joined by comrade Nxeba and comrade Mlungisi.  Comrade Nxeba was to be driver of the unit and comrade Mlungisi was to be my deputy"
Mr Chairman, correction:
"my deputy"   "Comrade was to be our link with comrade Xomiso and will provide us whichever we want"
	Now you talk about comrade Nxeba and comrade Mlungisi, can you tell us who are these people or are there any other names which they are known by?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: First of all, we used code names.  I only know those comrades according to those code names.  I Nxeba is Nxeba and Mlungisi is Mlungisi and that is it.  It is only today that I discover that he is Xobane, otherwise we know each other through our code names.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, you have discovered what his name is.  Who is this that is Xobane?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: It is the African Mlungisi that I'll be appearing with.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Comrade, Chairperson, is Kupani Diamoneng, applicant AM3828/96, that's Mlungisi.

ADV SANDI: And who is this comrade Zuko you're going to meet at King William's Town?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: Sky, I know him as Sky.

MR LAX: Sorry, and Nxeba, who is he?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: I just Nxeba as Nxeba.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you know these comrades by any other code names, that is Nxeba and Mlungisi?

VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI: I just know Mlungisi as Mlungisi.  I don't know Nxeba very well, I just know him as Nxeba as well.