Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

DR BORAINE: ... Mokhonwana.  Will you please come forward.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is doing this?

DR BORAINE: Tom.  Good morning Mrs Mokhonwana.  Can you hear me alright?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: Yes Sir.

DR BORAINE: Good.  That is excellent.  Mrs Mokhonwana, you have come to tell the story of your son, Obed, and we have been listening since early this morning about the KwaNdebele massacre, as it has become known, when at least nine people were killed and one of them was your son and you carry that heavy burden like so many others before you and will come after you.  Before you tell your story would you please stand to take the oath.

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: (Duly sworn in, states).

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Will you please be seated.  Mrs Mokhonwana, just before I pass on the proceedings to my colleague, Tom Manthata, could I just ask you who is with you today, who is sitting next to you?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: It is my cousin seated with me.

DR BORAINE: I think it is very important.  The reason why we ask this is not that we are just inquisitive.  First we want to welcome people who come, but it is very, very important to recognise that members of the family care enough to be with those who have come to give their story.  PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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It is not easy.  It makes one feel quite nervous sometimes to sit in front of the bright lights and all the people.  Please relax and we are so glad you have got somebody with you and Mr Manthata is going to assist you to tell your story.  Thank you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: We welcome you together with your cousin.  As the Commissioner has said that this is something that it is so hurting to you.  Please do not be emotional, be relaxed and, in brief, tell us what you experienced together with the disappearance of Obed.

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: When Obed disappeared I was at work at that time.  I was phoned and the message was that my son was dead.  My son was in B1 at Nkambule's place.  I left work, I went to B1.  It was true that the children left for KwaNdebele.  We arrived at B1 and I slept that night.  Then a combi arrived, we left for KwaNdebele where these children died.  When we arrived in KwaNdebele where the children died we were told the children are at the Government Mortuary in Bronkhorstspruit.  When we arrived at Johannah's place we could not find them.  They had already cleaned the place.  We arrived at the mortuary, we could find them there.  What we found there were only bones and ashes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Are you through Mrs Mokhonwana?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: I want to know what happened to my children because they could be living by now.  After a moment Johannah's mother came to B1 and said this doctor or traditional doctor who can resurrect these children.  Then we must come up with R1 000,00.  I said, no, I do not have money to waste, I know where my child was taken.  They said, what he is really trying to do saying that they will resurrect my son.  There is no person who can be resurrected PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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here.  They left in the combi and then I said I would not go to that traditional doctor who they claim will resurrect our children.  They went to that place, but they never brought back the children.  They claim that the children will be resurrected.  That never happened.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mrs Mokhonwana, have you finished telling your story?  Mrs Mokhonwana, did these children ever visit your home in a group?  What I am asking is Obed's friends, were they, use to come into your house?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: I use to be at work, but he stayed, Obed stayed at my sister's place in B1.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you arrived in KwaNdebele did you see some of the children's parents who were there at Johannah's place?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: We were in a combi when we arrived there.  I could not tell who was there.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you could not get an answer from Mama Johannah did you not try to go to the police to ask or even go to the Chief to ask about the incident?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: We did not go, but afterwards, maybe it was after two weeks, I went to the police station in KwaNdebele.  I wanted to know what happened to the children that night at Johannah's place.  When I arrived the policemen said the accused is not here.  When I went there the second time they said now the person who is handling the case is not here.  I was at the police station in KwaNdebele.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What about the Chief's place?  Did you visit the Chief's place?  I cannot hear you Mrs Mary Mokhonwana.

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: I say I was from the police camp in KwaNdebele after these children have been buried.  I wanted to know about children who died at number two at Skhosana's
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district, but they told me the person who is handling the case is not available.  I waited for a moment.  I went timeously to this police camp, but they told me that the policeman who is handling the case is not available.  That is when I left everything, but I did go to KwaNdebele.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I thank you Mam Mokhonwana.

CHAIRPERSON: Russell Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mama, we have heard from other witnesses that earlier in this year, 1996, that the police have started investigating this case again.  Have you been approached?   Did any police come to you and ask you to make any statements?  I will repeat the question.  Can you hear me now?  Is the translation coming through?  I will try again.  Can you hear the translation now?  And now, is it coming through?  Mama can you hear me now?  Some of the witnesses earlier this morning have said that the police, this year, have come and asked them to make statements about this case, that they are now looking into this case ten years afterwards.  Have you been approached to make any statements?  Did the police come to you?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: I do not know, but maybe they must have approached my sister.  They did not come to me.  I do not know.  They never approached my place, but they went to my sister's place.  They never asked me any questions.

RUSSELL ALLY: But they have asked your sister in this year still?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: The police.

RUSSELL ALLY: Yes, the police.  Have they asked your sister to make a statement about ...

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: They never arrived to me, but they arrived when Johannah brought the two plastics that I found at her
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place.  Then they went to the police in Mamelodi.  There was a Hippo around, but I do not know what happened to those things.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mama, that was in 1986 after this happened.  What I am asking is now recently, in 1996, the police have gone to some of the other families who lost children in this event.  Did the police come to you?

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: I do not know because I stay at work.  I do not know if the police did arrive at my place.

RUSSELL ALLY: And just one last question.  In your statement you say that when you went into the room in which these youths were killed, you said it seems a powder of a certain chemical of which I do not know, was used.  The room showed no signs of fire.  Now, this, did somebody tell you this or can you just tell us a little bit about that.

MASEKU MARY MOKHONWANA: Where these children died we stepped on some ashes, maybe because of mattress that burnt, but we tiptoed through the house.  It was in the boys room where we found this ashes on the floor.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you again Mrs Mokhonwana.  I would repeat myself.  We lack words of comfort and sympathy.  We know you experienced a tough time for this period, but we would like you to know that we are prepared to comfort you and thank you for having come forward to tell your tale.
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