Human Rights Violation Hearings — Venda — 1996-10-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Reverend Farisani for that testimony.
 It was very important and it helped us to put a lot of things into context, especially the events here in Venda and if you'd like to add to your statement by giving us some of the names of people whom you think we should talk to, people in the church and other names which you've mentioned, we'll be most grateful.
 You can either give it directly to us or to the statement takers.  You've given a very good account and a very clear account.  You've also issued a very direct challenge to the Commission.  It is often said to the Commission that you hear these stories of victims who come all the time, but what about the perpetrators.
 What about those who did those things, when are they going to be here?  And the names that have come up regularly today and also yesterday, Ramarighera, Managa, Nesemari and Ramoswana, certainly we are going to take up this request or demand now from the community here now in this area that these people be asked to give an account.
 I just want to ask you one question because I think that your statement is complete and comprehensive.  Just one question that is important for us.  That worst torture and detention that you've experienced was in the period 1981, 1982 around this issue of Sebasa and the bomb at the police station, can you just tell us briefly about an incident about the number of police who were actually killed and what was eventually decided about this issue and who was eventually held responsible.  If you know that information.

SIMON FARISANI: I think I should be honest on my part.  The
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ANC at no stage has ever charged me to do underground work.  The ANC always respected me for my open proclamation of the gospel of justice.
 Whether I met them in the States or in Britain or in Africa, it should be placed on record, they never gave me any underground task and I don't want to mislead this house that they did.
 What did happen was that maybe if our frustrated young people would come and ask to go and get education elsewhere outside the country to go and find other ways of struggling for freedom, and if we trusted them and we knew people who would be travelling outside this area, we would organise that transport and help them to get out of this place and let me be very clear, when people were victimized by apartheid, we stood up, defended them, provided food, legal aid wherever we could, protection, accommodation, we did this across the board without shame.
 When it comes to the bombing of the police station and this truth must come out today because lots of lies have been told by (indistinct) and they continued to tell those lies up till today.  My involvement in the bombing of the police station and what I know, and Phosiwa is here, Phaswana is here, some boys came to Boys Town early in 1981 asking for transport, for accommodation, for food. 
 I was in Johannesburg and pastor Phosiwa called pastor Mahamba, they met these freedom fighters and my wife saw them when she went to Phosiwa's house, it was accidental that she saw them there and they asked for transport.
 And the pastor Mahamba said look, you say you have got weapons on the mountains, we cannot carry them, because there are roadblocks, the police will confiscate the church 
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van and close down the churches.
 We'll give you the help that we can, we'll transport you in the morning, you can sleep here, we will take you to a place of safety.  
 And here were christians here and non-christians who were accommodating freedom fighters, hiding them, giving them food.  My only involvement in this particular incident is that when I came from Jo'burg, Phosiwa and Mahamba briefed me on this thing, but there was a lot of confusion around the issue.
 Because the mentioned the name of a (indistinct), and there was not (indistinct), but I only knew one (indistinct) and I said to Phosiwa, I said you were trapped because these (indistinct) I was told by Mr Wilson Mufemane, is actually in Sasolburg, he had taken his daughter to Sasolburg and she is not even writing exams and he came to me for advise, so this man claimed to be a freedom fighter, was actually a trap as I knew at that stage and I was honest with my valuation.
 But later it became clear that it was another (indistinct) who was indeed a freedom fighter and who indeed came to the centre.  When it comes to the dynamics of their (indistinct), we call in bombing, as if an aeroplane came and bombed with a bomb, that is not the situation.
 In fact, even by newspaper stories, they were using hand grenades, rockets, AK47, together the collective effort may be called bombing, but as to who bombed from which position, where they went to and so forth and (indistinct) I simply do not know.
 Could I just say one final thing.  One reason I bring the family here, one reason I want to support (indistinct) 
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is that many of these evil people, and I don't use the word evil easy as a pastor, but we should dwell over evil and brutal men and women, because unless they come out and confess, sooner or later they will come back.
 You know what happened to the family, we didn't go to the papers.   When my wife joined me in the States, she applied for leave, she is a teacher by qualification, for leave to study as a way to keep the family together.
 She was granted leave for one year.  When she asked for extension, the inspector commanded, she was principal at (indistinct), he commanded that she should be given the study leave under those circumstances and when she comes back she must go to school as principal or get an equivalent position.
 What Wasirimere and company did, sign a letter to terminate her services after 10 years' service and when we came back to this country, we went back to this people in a very pastoral manner.
 You've never heard me shout about this.  We went to this people, some of them are still in power and you know what they did, they said to my wife you can't even get your pension, the other people got in here in Venda.  Till today, not a cent, because some of those people are in power.
 And what is even more, she was not given a position then equivalent to what she had before, but she was made a P2 level teacher at (indistinct) and place under the leadership of her own students.  I am not saying the student shouldn't be upgraded, I just want to tell you that some of these forces are impact and emplaced and they try to continue to inflict as much pain on us as they want, in spite of the fact that we fought and died for their freedom 
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and then they are reaping the fruits of a process which they opposed.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you, thank you very much Reverend Farisani.  Thank you to your family and we will certainly respond as best we can to the challenge which you have issued to the Truth Commission.  We have all the names, we have ... (tape ends)