Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-18

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman it's a big question.  It's a simple question but it doesn't have a simple answer.  Yes I agree with the principle.  We will have to sleep on it and then make contributions towards the Commission.

MR POTGIETER: Alright, just before, can I just come back General to a point that you have made and perhaps ask you to explain it a bit more carefully, when you were asked about what went wrong on this day you responded by saying that it has been a political blunder, now would you like to explain that more carefully to us, what you actually mean by that, political blunder, and by whom and so forth?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman what I say is my personal feeling.

MR POTGIETER: I invite you to do just that.

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Thank you very much.  I think even if it went to the extent of saying incorporation now, no but's or if's or anything but incorporation now, to prevent a thing that has happened on that day.  Even to go as far as that.  And I think if people really wanted to politically solve that they could have done that.

MR POTGIETER: And who do you think would have been the main players in that process that should have proceeded on this line?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman I don't want to give the old EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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answer of I am not a politician, but I think the political leaders that were involved in all those affairs around the Bisho massacre should have sat around the table and sorted out the problems.

MR POTGIETER: In your view to what extent did the South African Government hold the key to that sort of solution?  To what extent did they have control really over the situation in the Ciskei?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman I will give you an honest answer, it was not my level.  I just went to brief them at the Embassy before the march took place and we have reiterated to them that they must do everything possible, everything possible to prevent any incident from taking place, any confrontation to take place.

MR POTGIETER: But you briefed them in the belief that they are able to do something positive about that.

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Yes, yes.

MR POTGIETER: To stop exactly what happened.

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Yes Mr Chairman.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you.  Pumpla.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Chairperson.  General you are still General, are you referred to as General or Mr?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: For whatever sake Lady you can call me Dirk.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Oh.  I just want to say that it seems that you have suffered the burden of the emotional strain that arose from the events of the day four years ago.

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: I still do.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: You still do.  My first question is how have you coped with it, because it seems that it's really affected you and you've spent a lot of time just
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thinking and worrying about it, I want to know first how you have coped that you can share with us.  
 The second question relates to essentially the fact that you had to go to the South African Embassy and speak with them about what was going to happen, and the significance for me lies around the notion that apartheid did intrude in our lives, in the lives of ordinary South Africans, but especially in the lives of men like yourself who worked in the defence force and in the police, and since South Africa was involved to that extent, because obviously it was otherwise you would not have gone to the South African Embassy, how would you reflect on the way that you were socialised as men of the army or police whatever?  How would you reflect on the way the apartheid ideology socialised you in terms of relating or in terms of dealing with for example situations of liberation struggle, can you tell us about that?  But it's those two questions I'd like to know.

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Thank you.  Mr Chairman the answer on the first question is I think I have never been nearer to God since that day, me or my family.  My wife, my children heard the shots, they were lying on the floor in the house.  They were in standard 6 and 7 respectively so they are also traumatised by the whole event.  That's my first answer to your question. I am trying, I am a sinner like anybody is I think Sir, I am trying my best to stay as close to God as possible.  That has been my pillar of strength this past four years.  Yes I am a man, I am no less a man than anybody else, you still get that nagging feeling coming back every morning sitting in your stomach, you still get that.
 Secondly, yes we were all guilty of apartheid, we were, EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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I am not standing away from that.  I think indoctrination and the way of life had much to do with that.  But I grew up in the Eastern Cape and I don't think it was a problem ever for me.  That was one of the reasons I came to Ciskei because I thought that I would understand the cultures, the traditions, everything.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you General.  I want to conclude, I just want to ascertain whether there are any other very, very burning questions, perhaps some pointed ones so that we can draw to a close here.  Thanks.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr van der Bank I understand at the time of this tragedy you occupied the rank of a colonel is that correct?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: I was then, yes, immediately after my appointment as deputy-commander, I came in as a colonel, seconded, and when I took over as deputy-commander I remained a colonel, yes.

MR SANDI: At the time of the tragedy you were a colonel?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: I was a colonel yes.

MR SANDI: Did you get any demotion or promotion or medal after this incident?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman I have foreseen this and I will be quite honest about it, because there was, and I am not implying that the Commissioner is saying he is jealous.  There were a lot of professional jealousy about my appointment first of all, and secondly when I was appointed after General Olshig was de-seconded I was appointed as chief of the Ciskei defence force because nobody else was qualified or able.  That I will come to your answer Sir ...(intervention)

MR SANDI: This is after the shooting, I want to confirm
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it?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: No not after the shooting Sir.  I think General Olshig was de-seconded, I am speaking under correction, February only the next year.

MR SANDI: You didn't get any promotion or medal after the shooting on the 7th September 1992?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman I will again answer straightforward and I am doing it with all respect, I have listened to the previous testimonies here, I have noted that that question has been asked and I can say to you again truthfully today no medals were given because of the Bisho incident.  I think that is the last thing that would have happened.  The morale at that stage, any defence force give out medals, the morale at that stage was at a low time or at an all time low and we had to do something just to pick up the morale of the Ciskei Defence Force, and that was the reason for the medal parade.

MR SANDI: Are there any other members of the Ciskei defence force who were given promotions and medals after the shooting on the 7th September 1992?

DIRK ADRIAAN VAN DER BANK: Mr Chairman again I realise the implication of the question and I am quite honest about that.

MR SANDI: Or let me put the question differently, are there any members of the Ciskei defence force who were demoted, in other words brought down, demoted from the ranks which they occupied on the 7th September 1992 when the tragedy occurred?