Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-22

YASMINE SOOKA: I now call Dorothy Seatlholo to the stand please. Before we take Dorothy's evidence I would just like to announce that we are running incredibly late and so we have arranged to take some of the witnesses tomorrow.  We will be starting a half-an-hour earlier at 8:30 so that we can take Janet Goldblatt first.  We will also be taking Matsiliso Photolo tomorrow as well.  We will now begin with Dorothy.  Dorothy the person on the side of you is that somebody who is related to you?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: My sister-in-law.

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome her to the hearings as well.

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: As is customary with the Commission we normally assign a Commissioner to assist you with the leading of your evidence.  In this instance I am going to do it, and I would ask you to take your time and to tell us exactly what you have on your mind.  If you will very briefly tell us a little bit about yourself as well please.

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: I am Dorothy Seatlhlolo.  I am the wife of the late Sydney Maphalala.  My husband was shot.  He was killed brutally in 1976 by a car which was going around killing people in Soweto.  It's a car, I always see it going up and down killing people in the township, until on the 27th of August 1976 they made my husband Mapetla who
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
2 D SEATLHOLO
together with two of his friends and another lady whose name is Tabiseng.  I don't what happened there because the car was having some bullet holes of more than 20 at the back.  They took my husband, they put my husband in one of the cars together with Ntabiseng and took him to the police station, Moroka Police Station.   They didn't take my husband to hospital.

YASMINE SOOKA: Sorry.  Could I just ask you to stop we have a problem with the interpretation services please.  I am sorry to do that to you.  We are actually getting two languages coming through on one line, if we could just please check that.

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: What disturbed me they took my husband to the police station together with Ntabiseng, they didn't even care to take him to hospital.  While he was shivering, they "Kaffir don't cry, we are going to shoot you again".  After shooting my husband they took him to Moroka Police Station.  And then the next thing they threw my husband's body on the floor.  After that his body was still down.  While he was dying they said "Kaffir..." they said they are not going to shoot him again.
 After two months they came to tell me to come and take the car in the police station.  When I arrived at the police station I was wearing black clothes, when I entered they said to me why are you crying, why are you crying, because your husband is dead?  They were having cigars, smoking cigarettes.  I was crying because I was afraid, they were threatening me and they didn't care because they were enjoying what they were doing in Soweto.  They didn't want to see any boy in the streets. Even myself on the 17th of June 1976 White policemen they were the people who burned 
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
3 D SEATLHOLO
the bottle stores, children were drinking without being aware of what was happening, they were shot at by the boers.  Many things happened.  That's why I am always hurt because of what happened.  I am still undergoing treatment of what happened in 1976, since 1976.  Since that I was attacked by stress.  
 Some few months back I was about to die because when people see me on the street they think that I am okay, but myself I know that I am disturbed, I am suffering from psychological effect.  Boers didn't care whether you are having a child or whether you are having a family. Or even my husband it was not him alone because they were killing many people and many people I am also feeling for them because there are those people who could not understand even today because they were killing people like flies.  There are so many people who don't know where their children are.  Many people do not know where their children ended up.  My head is so painful because my child cannot forget what happened, because this happened while he was still four years.  The bullet holes in the car there were more than 20.   The boers showed our children a bad experience and us they deprived my husband's life while he was still young and myself I was still young because now if he was still alive if I'm having problems I was going to be able to forget.  He would be able to help me solve my problems.  I don't know whom to cry for now.

YASMINE SOOKA: Dorothy take your time.  I would like to ask you a few questions just to get a clear picture of what did happen.  Was your husband a member of any political organisation?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: He was an ANC, we were all ANC in the
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
4 D SEATLHOLO
house.

YASMINE SOOKA: At the time when he was shot in the car, you were not with him?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: I was not with him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know who the person was who was a passenger in his car?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: I know her but she never wanted to come and testify, to give evidence, because she was scared of the police.  I think the police used to go and threaten her that maybe if she can appear they will kill her.

YASMINE SOOKA: How old were you at the time when your husband was shot?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: 19.  Because even when the case was on at the High Court they used to say I was not supposed to appear because I was under age.

YASMINE SOOKA: Can you tell us what happened to that case that you took to the Supreme Court?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: It went through the advocate, Mr Liebowitz, he used to come to my house to take photos of the car and it just ended there, because they said, I think it's '77 or '78, they said if anybody from the family - they said my brother-in-law if he doesn't come on the 8th of August the case will be withdrawn, so there was nothing I could do because they mentioned my brother-in-law, I was under age, I was not supposed to come with.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you receive any money from the State for instance at any time?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: Msisti and Pat and them they used to, for the funeral yes they brought R400,00 and then after a time when I was in mourning for my husband I met Mr Agri Klaaste at Crossroads here in Soweto and then he asked me, you are
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
5 D SEATLHOLO
so young why are you dressed in black?  I explained to Mr Agri Klaaste and then he said to me no but you are supposed to have got something.  He directed me to Jorissen Street at SACC.  I went to SACC and then they went to the bank, they withdrew R30, they gave me R30, so I decided to look for a job and work because really my son had to go to school and I was a breadwinner by then.  I had to go and work.

MS MKHIZE: Dorothy how old is your child now?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: My child is 24 now.  He is doing electrical engineering.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe we must congratulate you for having kept going and managed to keep him at school up to this age, but can I ask you this question, we have heard many young women of your age who have had an experience of losing their loved ones through man-made actions like the ones we have just described, in your own opinion what do you think should be done for many women including yourself to be able to begin to heal and understand the idea of reconciliation?

DOROTHY SEATLHOLO: What I want is to forgive those people who killed my husband but I want them to come and show up so that even my son should forgive them.  Before I can hear the truth because what I am saying now is not the full story, until the lady and them they appear among the public to apologise to the public because they used to do funny things and killing people purposely, so I want them to come and show up to the public before I can forgive them.