Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-30

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please be seated.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Mpanza, I am referring you now to this bundle of documents.  Mr Mpanza, on pages 1 to 3 of this bundle, which contains your application for amnesty, do you confirm that this is your application, and that you in fact signed the form on page 3?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, I do.

MS MOHAMED: Okay.  I am going to refer you to a typed statement which I have drawn on the instructions that you have given me.   Mr Chairman, copies have been made available to my learned colleagues as well.
	Mr Mpanza, do you confirm having read this statement?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, I read it.

MS MOHAMED: Do you also confirm having pointed out certain incorrect facts which have now been corrected?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, I did.

MS MOHAMED: And on your instructions then, in paragraph 3, 1981 was struck off to read 1991?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: That is correct.

MS MOHAMED: And then on page 3, paragraph 11, the first two sentences have been struck off, and you have initialled that.  Mr Chairman, I must apologise to the Committee and to my learned colleagues, when we were receiving instructions, we originally thought that the whole of paragraph 11 should be deleted, and that is why some lines go across.  It is just the first two sentences that must come off and the sentence that reads
"... it was agreed that Malevu would choose these comrades and then introduce me to them as my identity had to remain discreet",
	that sentence remains.
	Mr Mpanza, do you confirm that, and do you confirm having signed next to that?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, I do.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Chairman, if the statement may then be called Exhibit A?

CHAIRPERSON: It is so marked.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Mpanza, isn't it correct that you are applying for amnesty for an armed robbery which occurred at Avocas Wholesalers on the 16th of March 1992?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: That is correct.

MS MOHAMED: Isn't it correct that in the 1980's, you were a member of the UDF?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: That is correct.

MS MOHAMED: And isn't it also correct that you were a member of MK?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: That is correct.  I was a member of MK.

MS MOHAMED: Okay, and on your return to South Africa in 1991, what role did you assume within the ANC structures?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: My main role was to train Self-Defence Units, as well as to train other people to become MK cadres.

MS MOHAMED: Will it be correct to say that you were a Commander of the Self-Defence Unit?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, that is correct.

MS MOHAMED: And which area was this Unit set up in?

MR LAX: Sorry, before you go on, do I understand you correctly to say that your main role was to train SDU members and to get other people to become MK members, was that correct?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, that is correct.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MS MOHAMED: In which area was this Self-Defence Unit based?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I was based at kwaMashu.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Mpanza, this incident that you seek amnesty for is linked to a meeting that occurred round December 1991, isn't that correct?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Please clarify the meeting that you are referring to.

MS MOHAMED: Okay.   On your return to the kwaMashu area, whilst you were still a Commander of the SDU ...

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: When I returned to kwaMashu, I was an MK member and I worked with SDU's and because of my training, I became a Commander of the SDU.

MS MOHAMED: How did it come about that you became involved in this armed robbery at Avocas Wholesalers?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Towards the end of 1991, in December, comrade Lindani Nteani from Mkababa arrived, he had come to seek assistance from me, assistance in terms of weapons, because there was an ongoing violence between the IFP and the ANC there.
	I explained to him that we did not have firearms because when we returned to South Africa, we did not have firearms in our possession.  As a trained soldier, Lindani requested that I assist them to protect them in that area.
	That is how it came about that one was involved  to obtain money.  Lindani came to me in December 1991.  I explained to him that we did not have firearms.  As an MK cadre, he requested that I assist them.  At that time we were working in collaboration with other comrades from kwaMashu.  I then enquired from other comrades from exile, if any of them had firearms.

MS MOHAMED: Sorry Mr Mpanza, before you go on, this comrade Lindani Nteani, where was he from?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: He was from the Mkababa Youth League.

MS MOHAMED: And what was his position within the Youth League?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: He was the Chairperson of the Danganga Branch.

CHAIRPERSON: How old was he?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I am not certain, but he was quite a mature person.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he hold a higher rank than you in the ANC?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: He held a higher position in his area.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I am asking was he higher ranked than you?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I will say yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You were the Commander of MK?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: He was President of a Youth League in a particular area?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How could he have a higher ranking than you in the structure?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Lindani Nteani held a position at the Mkababa Branch.  I respected him for the reason that he had been trained as well as for the position he held at his area.  He had been trained by me in exile, and when he returned to South Africa, he had been appointed to that high position.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR LAX: So he knew you from exile?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: We first met before I left for exile, and we also met in exile.

MR LAX: As Commander of your SDU, who were you answerable to?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: As MK cadre from exile, we had been requested to train SDU members inside the country, but the person we liaised with was Papa Ndlovu.

MR LAX: Who was Papa Ndlovu?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Papani was the Commander in charge of all the SDU's.

MR LAX: For which area?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: In Sections C, D and E, kwaMashu.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Please continue.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you Mr Lax.   Mr Mpanza, at the point where I interrupted you, you said that Mr Nteani had come to you for assistance and you had said to him that you didn't have, sorry, you were not in a position to assist him?

MR LAX: No, he started saying that he then started making enquiries?

MS MOHAMED: Thank you Mr Lax.  Please can you tell us about the nature of the enquiries you were making?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I made enquiries from other comrades from exile, if any of them had DLBs to assist the people of Mkababa.
	It appeared that from those comrades, none of them had firearms.

MS MOHAMED: And then, what did you decide to do?