Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-20

MR J DE CASTRO: Andries Parker, late Andries Parker, late Chris George Kleynhans and it was Giovani Kleynhans was also there, there was another guy by the name of Frikkie.  It was only those four that came and visit me, they were actually waiting till we locked up the shop and we would go home together.
	While I was at the store we were working, I actually, just before the incident happened I helped Susan and Henk Viljoen, I was helping them on a take-aways where I made chips and viennas for them and I personally, I was having a russian to eat as well at that stage.  After I finished helping them I came out of take-aways and I went and I stood there by the tills where the tills were, where my in-laws were as well.  
	I was standing there, my wife was also with us because she was one of the cashiers and Peter's wife was also there and then Susan and Henk were going to pay on the checkpoint where my wife was and there was another two chaps as well that had just come in and then I just heard my sister-in-law, Fatima De Castro, I just heard her screaming "Oh my God, oh my God" and ...(intervention)

MR STEENKAMP: Sorry this is now your brother's ...(intervention)

MR J DE CASTRO: Wife.

MR STEENKAMP: Late wife?

MR J DE CASTRO: That's right and at the same time I saw the guys walking into the store, but they came in very quickly.  There were four armed men, black men and two looked at me and two to the other side but they were standing about 2  1/2  metres away from me and as they entered they demanded:  "Money, lie down".  Those were their exact words and I then, we had four tills, I then opened up two tills.  On my right-hand side I opened up the one till, on my left-hand side the other till and I tried to open up the other one as well but the key wasn't in it .... (intervention)

MR STEENKAMP: Sorry to interrupt you, after they gave this instruction, can you remember what the people in the shop did?

MR J DE CASTRO: Well people started screaming, people started - they were looking for place to, you know sort of kneel down, and as the people went to lie down the other guys were taking the money out of the till.  I saw the one shooting the one till which I couldn't open up, he was you know, he shot two or three times on that till, he wanted to get money out.  The same time the other guys were just shooting all over you know.  I lay on the floor, I was, I had my hands over my head and you know I prayed.  I said to myself you know, it can happen any time you know, and ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Castro are you fit to continue with (inaudible)?

MR J DE CASTRO: Yes I am Your Honour.  Well the one with the briefcase, I saw him helping himself to the money.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you identify that person today, is he present here?

MR J DE CASTRO: Yes he's present, I've identified him as well.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you point him out to the Chairperson?

MR J DE CASTRO: Yes I can point him out.

MR STEENKAMP: Then do so.

MR J DE CASTRO: The chap, first one on lefthand side.

MR STEENKAMP: ...(indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: ... (Inaudible) pointing out of Mr Bhani, the same person who was pointed out by the previous witness.
APPLICANT BHANI POINTED OUT BY MR J DE CASTRO

MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.  You can continue Sir.

MR J DE CASTRO: Then they grab all the money, the cheques that were inside the one till and in the other tills they were looking for money.  They couldn't - there was no money whatsoever in the other two tills which were lying open and the one till that was closed they tried to open it up but they couldn't, it was closed and then as we were lying on the floor they just, you know they just went mad, it was shooting all over.  I was lying down on the ground, flat on the ground I was shot in my foot.

MR STEENKAMP: Do I understand you correctly, you were injured and shot while you were lying on the floor?

MR J DE CASTRO: That's right.

MR STEENKAMP: And do I understand you correctly that you're saying that the attackers shot at random at the people lying on the floor?

MR J DE CASTRO: That's right.

MR STEENKAMP: You can continue.

MR J DE CASTRO: And then there was shooting, they were shooting people on the ground you know and once they shot me in my foot I started screaming and you know I was still looking around to see if there's any of the attackers inside and then they were gone, they left.  You know it's ... (intervention)

MR STEENKAMP: Mr De Castro do you have any idea why your shop was attacked?

MR J DE CASTRO: Well I'll say because we were one of the strongest businesses like, in the Free State, and you know we always used to carry a lot of money and that day especially.  It was the end of the month and everybody knows as well when Wesselsbron, end of the month in Wesselsbron is very busy and that store gets very very busy the whole day and I think we were a target because we had money with us.

MR STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, sorry Mr Chairman.
	 Mr De Castro you read the evidence of at least two of the applicants, at least in was contained in the applications that the owner of the shop was the Chairperson of the AWB?

MR J DE CASTRO: No it was not so.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you comment on that please?

MR J DE CASTRO: No it is not so.  At no stage myself or even my in-laws, because we're very close I would have know, nobody was any member of AWB, no one.

MR STEENKAMP: Do you belong to any political party or were you a supporter of any political party?

MR J DE CASTRO: Not at all, not at all.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you if, maybe tell the Committee, the majority of your shoppers who were they.  Who were frequenting your shop mostly?

MR J DE CASTRO: Well we had about 90% black trade and the other 10% white trade.

MR STEENKAMP: So if I just understand you correctly you were saying your business was basically depending on black trade?

MR J DE CASTRO: That's right.

MR STEENKAMP: Can you, if possible, describe to the Committee what were you relationships with the local community there?

MR J DE CASTRO: Well it's a small town and everybody knows everybody.  We used to greet people, you know white people, black people, we used to greet everybody with the hand.  I had nothing against nobody, I used to greet black people at that time with my hand.  I had no, I couldn't care what people would say to me, say why you greeting a black man, I mean to me black and white we are you know we are all people and you know that is why I say we, you know we had a good relationship with the customers of Wesselsbron, white and black, we had no problems whatsoever.

MR STEENKAMP: Mr De Castro you heard the evidence of the applicants, they were saying that this was a politically motivated incident.  Do you have any comment on this?

MR J DE CASTRO: Well if it's political why, why would they come in - they were looking for money, their first words that they walked in they said money, did they say politic, did they say listen I belong to APLA I'm coming here to kill you guys, did they say that, they didn't.  They said "money, lie down, open up the tills".  We laid down, what happened to us we were shot, we were shot, we were shot like you know like we were minced up, really.

MR STEENKAMP: Was anybody armed in your shop.  Was anybody carrying a weapon to your knowledge?

MR J DE CASTRO: No.

MR STEENKAMP: Were you normally carrying a weapon in your shop?