Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

CHAIRPERSON: We have Mr Mokoena before us. Mr Mokoena, very welcome, you're the last of a long series, a long queue of people, but last is not the least. Thank you for being with us. Dr Ally will help you in telling your story, but I'll ask Mrs Seroke first to help you to take the oath. Will you please stand and raise your hand.

MS SEROKE: The Oath.

RUSSELL ALLY: Good afternoon to you Sir and welcome. You're actually coming to speak to us about the experiences you underwent in the 1980's, mainly because of your involvement in the activities in the ANC in particular in the activities of the underground structures of the ANC, Umkhonto weSiswe, which led to your being arrested, which led to constant harassment. You're also coming to speak about your  comrades, your cadre' who were actually also involved in MK and sentenced to death, because of their involvement. But I ask you please to go through what is in your statement.

MR MOKOENA: Thank you Sir. Between the sixties, I was a member of the ANC. We were working in the mines and in the farms. I was a young person and was already a member of the organisation. Around 1981, 1982, 1987, we were working together going to and fro, but working underground. Where we were staying people came. I met a drummer, Benjamin (indistinct), was an actor to that play. Whilst we were proceeding with that play, the police were after us. They made my life difficult.
 Where I was they would come, where I was working. They said somebody assaulted Thabo and Molesan, at that time they were detained. When they were supposed to get the bail, they took them, then I was supposed to tell the police where the arms were, and whom am I working with, and why do I do this terrible work.
 I accepted all because I accepted knowing who I am and what do I want and where do I go. Around those years, they took me from home, they put me in their car, they trampled on my feet. I remember one night, it was at eleven o'clock at night, they passed me through Winterveld. I was sleeping here and the dog was urinating at me and they would put their feet on top of me until a certain place called Bapsfontein. They opened the doors and then they left me there. They thought maybe I would escape but I stayed there in that car, knowing what's their aim.
 At dawn, they said to me I should leave. I knew their intention. I stood there. They made a big fire there, I don't know whose farm was that. They said to me again,"We said to you leave". The  farm workers were coming to the bus stop. I went among them, then I went to the bus stop. I took a bus to Pretoria. I arrived there, I was still working at Putco. I was working there, they used to come and look for me, looking for management, what kind of person and they were telling management what kind of person is this. Then the manager said to me you are working with this kind of people.
 They would come one day and sit around the table, then they would call me one day so that they would see me. I knew that that was my time they would ask me questions and then I would answer him and when he was answering (indistinct) questions, I would keep quiet until I went to court but before I went to court, the (indistinct) wife came to me, because I used to give her money so that she will be able to sustain. She told me that "You are wanted", then I said "That's okay."
 They used to come ......(tape ends) ....you must not come back here again, I'm asking that you must come back here.
 And then she left and stayed home. May you please forgive me as forget some of the events please. Bear with me. When this went on, every time I went to court, they would arrest me sometimes.
 At (indistinct), it was very unpleasant. They would make me squat on some poles. One day they sent someone for cold drink to bring it to me, they put it next to me and said I must drink it. I told them that I don't drink Coke. They looked at me and laughed, and when the other ones came in, they asked me if I wanted food. I said no. They asked me whether I was going to stay there a long time without eating. I said yes I'll be okay. I stayed there.
 Sometime at about 12 o'clock they left me alone. I wondered what they wanted to do. Some of the times I would sit at the zoo and I wouldn't go to the bus depot, because I knew that they would follow me. They said to me I must reveal all the ammunitions that were used, and I said I don't know anything about that. 
 The court proceedings were held by Jana. I went into the court and they wanted to  know how come the workers got to my home. They said I had a gun under my coat. "Why didn't you arrest me if you thought I had a gun on me?" that's what I asked them. That was after the case of one of Mamelodi comrades. And then I told them that this guy is my actor in my drama. They asked me whether I had attended school, I said no and they asked me how can you write a play and then they asked me whether I could write anything that they can tell me, I said no this is a gift to me and then they said, how did you become involved in the ANC's activities and then I said I learned that from my parents.
 They had no reason to arrest me at that time and then they released me and when they released me I think they wanted to make Ben's wife a state witness and that's what happened and when she saw me she hid herself.
 What worries me is that the interrogation I went through damaged my brain. Sometimes I wish I could write a play but I am very limited now, I have a lot of headaches, because these people use a lot of things when they interrogate and assault you. That is all I want to tell you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much for that. The people who were arrested and sentenced to death, Benjamin and Thabo and Teddy, and there was a fourth one whose name you can't remember. What eventually happened to them, were they executed?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, they died.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were they hanged?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, that's true, they were hanged.

RUSSELL ALLY: When did that happen? Can you recall?

MR MOKOENA: I don't remember the dates.

RUSSELL ALLY: When the police were trying to get you to testify against them in court, that you had hidden weapons  and that you knew, because they were accused of having killed a policeman, is that not so? That was the offence that they were supposed to have committed. They shot and killed a policeman.

MR MOKOENA: Yes they were asking me questions regarding that. That's all they did during the interrogation. We in the organisation wouldn't have used a gun, we believed in negotiations. When all these people were asking why we had left our parents at home, we said it is because we were fighting for our country. We were being called "sellouts" by then, because when we left he told me that we should continue from where they left off.

RUSSELL ALLY: You say that because of this and because you had to appear in court, your boss where you worked at Putco also harassed you. Did you ever lose your job or did they just harass you?

MR MOKOENA: I was harassed until Bophuthatswana took over, then we said we should come this side maybe it will be o.k. but it was the same. When I said I'm looking for work they say  I'm an old man, I'm not working I have nine children, my, my, three of them are mine and six of them are my sisters.

RUSSELL ALLY: And how do you survive with is there a, do you get paid a pension or any assistance? How do you look after

MR MOKOENA: I get nothing sir. I don't get a pension or anything. Even my at my last employment they don't want to give me my blue card

RUSSELL ALLY: Now after this case and these comrades of yours who were sentenced to death and then hanged did the police continue to harass you?