bitter-aloe/trc-testimonies huggingface dataset:
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome you to the proceedings.  Is that a friend or relative that is accompanying you?

KATE BOOI: It's my sister.

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome her too.

KATE BOOI: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: I have asked Professor Piet Meiring to assist you with your story and I hand over to him.

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Booi thank you for coming and sharing your story with us.  You are again taking us back to the year '87 when many things happened in Tembisa and you are going to tell us about your son.  Before you tell us about your son, please tell us about yourself.  Are you married, how many children do you still have?

KATE BOOI: I am a widower.  I have six children.

PROF MEIRING: Are they already working or are some of them still at school?

KATE BOOI: Some are married already, some are still staying with me.  I am staying with grandchildren who are attending school.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much.  And now you are going to tell us about, do you call him Edward or Vusile?

KATE BOOI: It's Edward Vusile Majola.

PROF MEIRING: Edward, what kind of person was Edward?  He was 21 years old when the story started, but tell us was he at school then?

KATE BOOI: He was at school then.
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PROF MEIRING: Which standard?

KATE BOOI: He was doing standard 10, matric.

PROF MEIRING: Standard 10, and was he very active at school?

KATE BOOI: Yes.  He was a very active young man.  He loved people at the same time.  He didn't like any troublesome issues.  He was a very open and friendly person.  He loved everybody.  That's how he was.  He didn't even care whoever says what if he didn't believe in a thing he stood by his ground.  He was very helpful.

PROF MEIRING: Was he also active in politics?

KATE BOOI: Very much, he was very active.  He used to travel all over Durban, all over the country. He was a member of COSAS.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  Now we have the picture of your son, and now you want to take us back to the 1st of January 1987 when he was arrested.  Please tell us the story of your son.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Mr Mabena.  We would like to thank you for coming and for sharing with us your own perspective of
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what has happened in Tembisa through the last number of years.  You are a survivor in fact of the process and I think that it was very important for us to hear you.  Thank you for coming.

TIMOTHY TONY MABENA: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MS MKHIZE: Did you ever consider going to counsellors or psychologists?

MICHAEL MANDLA MABHENA: I didn't get such help.

MS MKHIZE: I think this might help if you can go and see psychologists since people like you who have undergone such painful experiences they get affected and even their health deteriorates, therefore I will suggest that you see them in time before everything goes wrong.   You also said that you saw White men who have blackened their face with black ash, when did you see them?  After your brother was shot and you have seen his body or before?

MICHAEL MANDLA MABHENA: No it was before.  It was a time when they entered the township.

MS MKHIZE: Those people who were shot were they shot by these White men?

MICHAEL MANDLA MABHENA: I would say they were together the White men and the Black people because there were so many combis and the people were full inside.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Mr Mabhena we would like to express our appreciation to you for coming.  The story that you tell is a very painful one and we can well understand your reluctance or the pain that it brings and the suffering that you are still experiencing.  I think we would like to thank you for coming.  It is not an easy thing to do and what you have done this morning is very brave.  So we would like to
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salute you for that.
 We will as Commissioner Hlengiwe Mkhize has suggested, we would suggest that you look at the possibility or ask at the clinic the possibility of getting counselling because what you are wrestling with yourself is something that is very difficult, because you have suffered physical pain.  Your brother has died, but you are now suffering the psychological pain of that.  It is easy for us to say yes, your brother died in the struggle but so many other people died and his life was part of that struggle, it's very easy to say that and to recognise that, but then you the family still stay behind and have to bear the pain and keep alive, keep living.  You also have the responsibility for your mother.  So we express our solidarity with you, urge you to have strength and to seek assistance.  We will investigate the case and come back to you.  Thank you very much for coming.  That was a big step by you today.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

JANE MIRIAM MABUYA: Yes the Police did come and ask us how did you know about the whole incident, then the Police came after the burial, I believe it's about two weeks, then the Rabasoto Police came to take the statement, then we went to Rabasoto to make a statement.  I don't know who knows is his grandfather.

MS MKHIZE: I want to thank you.  I will ask the Chairperson to talk to you.

JANE MIRIAM MABUYA: Thomas' mother left Thomas at his grandparents and then he came in February during the funeral.  I don't know where he is staying.  And even when Thomas' father died he was not there.  Thomas' mother is dumb therefore we are not able to communicate with her so we don't know where she is staying.

YASMINE SOOKA: We have heard your story.  We will try and find out whether any kind of enquiry took place so that we can get some sense of who was responsible.  We have heard what you said and I wonder if there is anything that you would like to tell the Commission especially before you go?

JANE MIRIAM MABUYA: What I want to say is the Whites have killed my child and he could have been working for me.  I am staying alone.  I don't have a husband, I don't have other children, he could have been working for me now.  There is no person who pays rent for me.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you for coming and sharing that with us.  It is very, very difficult and we know that the price that has had to be paid for freedom in this country has been very, very high.  It is also a numbers of the mothers and grandmothers who have been left behind and who have lost those who would have looked after them in their old age.  The Commission has heard the stories of many older people
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like yourself and the facts are very, very similar.  We have heard what you have said, the Reparation Committee is looking into what can be done around people like yourself and we will come back to you at some time in the future.  Thank you for coming today.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

YASMINE SOOKA: What has happened Dumusani, is that while many members of the Toasters gang have learned about the fact that there are a number of cases involving them where people have made statements already to the Truth Commission and some members of the gang have indicated that for those offences which are political, they are going to apply for amnesty and we've also been approached individually by people who are not in jail, who say that they are also coming forward to make statements, and I think that what we do want to appeal to, is that if there members of the gang out there and they have committed offences which are of a political nature, that they have until the 14th of December to apply for amnesty for those matters.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Malibe could you tell me whether at any stage after any of the incidents that had happened to you you pressed any charges against the policemen concerned?

REUBEN MANDLA MALIBE: No I could not do that because I knew that the case would not go anywhere.  They told me, these guys, that they have the law in their hands, and I believe that, because they would take me anywhere.  One incident that I did not mention, could I just mention it, is that at one stage they took me to Modderbee Prison and when I was there they had arrested another man from Daveyton, so they brought this guy and they put us in the same cell, then they put dogs in the same cell with us, the Police dogs.  So seeing that I knew that if you take them to the Police which Police are going to charge them because they are the Police.
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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YASMINE SOOKA: The effects of all of this on you, the torture, the hitting on the soles of your feet, the sexual harassment and torture as well, has that left any lasting effects on you?

REUBEN MANDLA MALIBE: Yes I think so because it re-surfaces from time-to-time.  I haven't found a way to deal with it thoroughly.  Yes, it does.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much for telling us your story.  I think we are struck by the generosity which you extend to those who have done this to you, that both you and the witness who testified this morning indicated that a special day should be set up where both perpetrators and victims can come together.  It is very important I think in our country for us to see and end-goal, and while no one can force us to forgive there is a generosity that the country has extended to those who have committed these acts in the granting of amnesty, if they come forward and they make full disclosure so that at least we can learn about all that they have done.  Unfortunately although we have received more than 3,000 applications we have still not received the applications of those who were in fact the authors of the kind of violence that took place and we urge people to make use of this opportunity.  You yourself have in fact survived the '76 riots.  You have survived the State of Emergency and today you are in fact a teacher and someone who has an influence on the young minds that we are cultivating in this country which we hope will have a future which is free of the kind of violence which all of us grew up under.
 We thank you for your courage, and we thank you for coming today to share that with us.  We hope that some of the comments that you have expressed we will be able to do 
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justice to.  Thank you, both you and your wife.

REUBEN MANDLA MALIBE: You are welcome.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: This is the last witness for the day and we would ask that you please remain silent while she gives her testimony.

MBAMBASE MARTHA MALULEKE: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome you to the Commission and we would like to welcome the person who has accompanied you as well.  We have asked Mr Hugh Lewin to assist you with the telling of your story.

MR LEWIN: I would just like to thank you for waiting so patiently with us.  It's been a long day and it's fairly hot, and in many ways your story is different from those we've heard today where people have been talking about what happened in the '70's and the '80's.  The story you will tell us about is actually something that happened, something very bad that happened in your life but it happened quite a long time after February 1990 for instance when the ANC and the PAC were unbanned and the changes began in South Africa.  So it is a different story from that point of view.  We are very pleased that you have come.  Please feel relaxed and tell us your story in your own time.  Thanks very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1995-11-27

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Kellina Manana to come forward please.  We would like to welcome you.  Before you take the oath we would like you to tell us who is in your company?

MS MANANA: That's my son.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to welcome him too.

KELLINA MANANA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: We see your story as one of the stories that we are going to listen to as people have just come before and explained that they have heard about the Zulus and the Toasters.  We welcome you and we will ask Commissioner Joyce Seroke to help you in leading evidence.

MS SEROKE: Hello Kellina.  Which language do you speak?

MS MANANA: I speak Zulu.

MS SEROKE: We have heard that you came here in connection with the matter which involves the Toasters, can you explain to us about the incident which led to the death of your husband, as to what happened?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

SELINA MASISA: I didn't have finance, I was assisted by the comrades of Sivane who donated R400 to help in burying their friend.  I didn't have money, as I am till today but the comrades were supporting me all the time.  They donated R400.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Masisa, it's vary difficult for us to offer the sort of comfort that we can give to help you  in your loss.  What we can say is that we were very grateful to you for having come to the Commission.  We will try and follow up as much as possible to find what we can about what happened on that terrible day in September three years ago.  But nothing that we can say will actually bring back your son.  We will try and provide some comfort by finding out a little bit more about it and the fact that you  don't know actually how he died or even why he died must be very painful for you.  We hope that you will have friends around you to support you and we will get back to you with whatever information we can to help you.  We'd like to thank you very much for coming.  Thank you.

SELINA MASISA: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: Before we begin the next session I would like to welcome Miss Fatima Hajay a Member of Parliament to the proceedings today.  Miss Fina Roy a member of the ANC's Women's League.  Miss Tandi Swakamisa a member of SANCO in Tembisa.  Miss Regina Dhladla a member of the Gauteng Legislature.  We would like to thank you for sharing this day with us.  I would now like to call the next witness Mrs Zodwa Mofikeng to the witness stand please.  Mr Mofokeng I believe your surname is Mlhabene is that correct?

ZODWA MOFOKENG MLHABENE: Yes.

ZODWA MOFOKENG MLHABENE: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: I have asked Mr Hugh Lewin to assist you with your evidence.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much for coming to join us and for agreeing to tell us your story Mr Mofokeng Mlhabene.  As we said before please feel at home, feel relaxed, you are with friends.  What you are going to tell us about relates to events in 1987.

ZODWA MOFOKENG MLHABENE: Firstly I will start by the incidents where I started being an activist.  I don't know whether will that be relevant or must I start when my husband left?

MR LEWIN: No please tell us your own story as well, that's as important.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

MR LEWIN: Can you remember the date then?

ZODWA MOFOKENG MLHABENE: I cannot remember the date clearly, but my husband has got a few cards that he has of his hospitalisation.

MR LEWIN: So that must have been in the mid-eighties, '85, '86?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MS SEROKE: We would also like to get their names, not now, but just before you leave.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: I would just like to reiterate what Joyce Seroke says that could we please get from you as much information as possible because yes this is one of the things that we can do in terms of follow up, in terms of our own investigations.  We can go back to the police records and see if there is anything there.  But if you could please give us names and addresses of people that would also help.   I would again make an appeal to the public that if there are people who do have information which is not available either give them through Dipuo Mokoena or directly to us so that we can try and find out what actually did happen.
 The story that you have told is a story which unfortunately is repeated in other areas, but it has been very useful for us and stirring for you to come to tell us the story today.  It's not just a question as you say of local heroes it's a question of national figures who we record as the lost youth of our struggle, the people who unfortunately died before the struggle was complete, died in TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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the process of the struggle but whose lives were very much a contribution towards that struggle.  These are the people that we salute, these are the people that we are striving to commemorate in the best way possible.  
 So we would like to thank you very much and say that as a fitting homage to them will be for us to be able to find out as much information as possible so that we can lay to rest the uncertainties and the unknowns of the past so that we can all move together into the new future that we all worked for.  Thank you very much indeed for coming.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MR LEWIN: This is the final day of hearing in Tembisa this week.  You will see from the programmes we have a number of cases today dealing specifically again with fairly recent activities in the 90's, but we are taking some other cases as well.  There will be one case of someone who was not able to come earlier this week.  We will also be hearing the case of Brian Thobogo Mazebuku during the course of this morning.  I would like to welcome everybody who is present.  I would also like to emphasise the fact that this is the day of the victims. This is the day of the people who are giving testimony.  That is the reason that we are here.  That is the reason that we have organised these hearings.  So we appeal to everybody else to respect that.  This is the day of those people telling their stories on our behalf and particularly on their own behalf and the emphasis is very much on them.  The panel today, those who have been here before will begin to recognise the people who are here.  On my left is Hlengiwe Mkhize who is a Commissioner and who is the Chairperson of the Committee for Reparation and Rehabilitation within the Commission.  On my right is Joyce Seroke who is a committee member of the Human Rights Violations Committee as is myself, Hugh Lewin, also a committee member on that committee.
 Mr Ncube we would like to welcome you.  I understand that you are accompanied by your lawyer.  If you could give us your lawyer's name please.  
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MR NCUBE: It's Octavius Magunda.

MR LEWIN: And before you speak if I could please take the oath.

MR NCUBE: (sworn states)

MR LEWIN: Mr Magunda could I please ask you to take the oath as well.

OCTAVIUS MAGUNDA: (sworn states)

MR LEWIN: We ask in this case Hlengiwe Mkhize please to lead Mr Ncube.

MS MKHIZE: We welcome you Mr Ncube.

MR NCUBE: Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: I will ask you to tell the Commission about your health status and then immediately about the matter that you have told us that happened in '86 and 1990 and thereafter before the Commissioners are able to ask you questions we will ask your attorney to help with any details that you didn't include in your statement.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MR LEWIN: Our next witness is Phumzile Priscilla Ntimbane.  Good morning.  If you could please explain to us who is with you.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: The people in my company, the one on my right-hand side is my daughter and the other one on my left is my sister's daughter.

MR LEWIN: We would like to welcome them and thank you very much for coming to support her.  Before you tell us your story could you please stand and take the oath.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: (sworn states)

MR LEWIN: I will ask Commissioner Mkhize please to lead your evidence.

MS MKHIZE: We welcome you Phumzile and the people who are in your company.  I would like you to explain your story especially regarding the death of your brother Vusi.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Joyce Ntimbane.  There are two very important points that I want to make here. The story that you have told us, your personal story is one that is very terrible.  It fits the pattern that we have heard from a lot of other witnesses, it is something which we will investigate very carefully.  You have given us a large amount of information, you have mentioned specific names.  We have our own investigative unit, as the Commission and we will follow this up to the fullest extent within our powers.  We would like to commend you for coming forward with this story.  We would like to thank you for coming. But in doing so I would like to mention the second point which is not related specifically to you but it is what you have told us.   You have told us that you have been threatened.  This is in fact not the first time that we have evidence of people making threats and I would like to say on behalf of the Commission that we do not take these threats lightly at all. I would like also, on behalf of the Commission, to issue a warning to those people who think that they can intimidate either the witnesses, or the Commission itself. I need to remind people that this Commission the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was set up and established by a unanimous decision of Government, of Parliament.  This is
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not just a Government Commission, this is a Commission of the People.  We have been given a task and that task is to find out exactly what happened in the past in our country to bring that into the public arena, and to make it absolutely clear that these sorts of actions will not happen again. We will not be intimidated, we will not stand or brook any threats, either to ourselves or to the witnesses, and I want to tell people that through our own investigative unit and through our links with everybody in this country, in terms of the state organisations, whether they are the police or the other organs of state, we are closely in touch with them, they know what we are doing.  We have that sanction to function independently, autonomously and to the fullest extent of our responsibilities.  We will not be threatened nor will we allow anyone to be threatened, and if there is any action taken against people who have come to this Commission and given evidence openly and transparently, they will find themselves in a great deal of trouble, both from the Commission and from the State.  And I want to say that quite clearly and quite strongly as a result of the evidence that we have heard now.  I hope that on behalf of all of us, I leave absolutely no question about our intention. 
 Ms Ndeboni I'm very very pleased that you have come and would like to thank you and your family for being with you. Thanks very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

HENRY RAMAHUTA: (sworn states)
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tzaneen — 1997-04-10

RUSSELL ALLY: Will you do that one Joyce ?

DR RANDERA: Mr Matidza, good afternoon.

WILLIAM MATIDZA: Good afternoon.  I also greet you.

DR RANDERA: Could you please introduce the young man who is with you.

WILLIAM MATIDZA: He's the young man I'm travelling with.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.  Mr Matidza, in respect of your age, I'm not going to let you stand but can you just repeat after me, the oath.  I swear that the story I'm about to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

WILLIAM MATIDZA: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

MS SEROKE: Mr Matidza, could you tell us your story.

WILLIAM MATIDZA: Yes.  Yes, I can.

MS SEROKE: Please continue.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tzaneen — 1997-04-10

RUSSELL ALLY: We'll break for lunch now and we'll come back at two o'clock.  So we'll come back at two o'clock.  Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: We'll ask our next witness if ...  Mthebule Ignatius, .. Samuel.

MS SEROKE: Our next witness is Samuel Mthebule.

DR RANDERA: Mr, do you want to put your headphones on or not ?

MS SEROKE: English, he's going to use English.

DR RANDERA: Good afternoon, Mr Mthebule.  Welcome.  Mr Mthebule would you please stand to take the oath.  If you can just repeat after me.  I swear that the story I'm about to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

SAMUEL MTHEBULE: (sworn states)

MS SEROKE: Welcome, Mr Mthebule.  Would you introduce the person who's accompanying you.

SAMUEL MTHEBULE: He is my uncle.  A brother to my father.  His name is Abel Ntebolin.

MS SEROKE: You've come to tell us about your brother, Ignatius Mthebule who left the country in 1981.  Would you tell us about him and why he had to leave the country.

SAMUEL MTHEBULE: Basically there isn't really much that I, that I know why he left the country as I should submit from the ...

MS SEROKE: The speaker's mike is off.

SAMUEL MTHEBULE: So should I start again?  Alright, thank you.  Much as I said before that I have no idea ...

MS SEROKE: The speaker's mike off again.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tzaneen — 1997-04-10

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Tibane, this is one of those cases that have repeated themselves so often in the history of our country where people are shot and killed at demonstrations and particularly where people were demonstrating against structures, the governments which were imposed upon them.  Homeland governments or community councils and the police and the army would often come in and there would be a confrontation and there would be live ammunition and your son is one of those tragic victims.
 In the statement that you gave to us, you did indicate that the people who were on the scene that day were part of the South African police.  They have been informed.  We have written to them.  We have sent them a copy of the statement.  We have asked them to comment and to give us information on which unit of the police force was present at that date.  We're still waiting for a response from them but we will certainly let you know as soon as we hear from them.  
 I see in your statement also you do say that for the families, the survivors and what is very important is to recognise the victims, those who lost their lives, by the erection of tombstones, by the building of schools, by the erection of monuments and these are things which the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee are taking very, very seriously and will certainly I'm sure, form part of their policies and their recommendations which they make to the President at the end of the life of the Commission.
 And we certainly hope and believe that people like you son, people like Wilson who was killed in the  prime of his life,  sixteen years old, will be some of those who will benefit from this kind of recognition of the youth.  
 Thank you very much for coming to us and sharing what is obviously still something very painful.  Thank you again.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

CHAIRPERSON: I would like Andile Phillip Blaauw to come forward.  We welcome you Andile Blaauw.

ANDILE PHILLIP BLAAUW: (sworn states)

PANEL MEMBER: Welcome here.  Your evidence relates to at least three days and various incidents that you will be talking about and the nature of the complaint is classified as an attempted murder, resulting from the experiences that you had.  Now, we have heard earlier from Netisis Toto about the situation in Kwanobuhle in January 1987, now in fact, your story starts on the 4 January 1987, is that correct?

ANDILE PHILLIP BLAAUW: Yes, it is like that, sir.

PANEL MEMBER: Now, let's start there and then we can work our way through the various incidents.  On the 4th, you were not sleeping at home you said, as a result of continued harassment by the security police, would you like to tell us what happened?

ANDILE PHILLIP BLAAUW: Yes, I will explain it, the previous night, I had not spent the night at home due to the police harassment, so early in the morning, on my way home, as I was walking down Matamsima I saw there was a combi parked next to my house, so I went on and I stood next to a certain house just before my home and I knelt down and looked.  I thought that it was a police combi that had come to look for me.  Some people came out of this combi and they had some
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axes, some spades with them.  It was a blue mini bus.  They went into my home.  Some were knocking at the windows, at the doors, all over the house.  Then I came from the back of the yard and I went up Pungulu and I still found that there were people there between Matamsima and Pungulu.  They were quite a group and they were armed with axes, spades and sticks.  I had a woollen hat on, and they said, there is another one, then I tried to turn but they hit me here on the head.  I did not fall, I ran towards Nyoga and that is where I spent the whole day.  I didn't go to hospital.  I looked after myself, I was there for the full day, hiding, I slept there, I didn't see any doctor because I knew that if I could go to any doctor or any hospital, the policemen were going to arrest me so that is the reason I had to stay there.

PANEL MEMBER: Sorry to interrupt you.  At that stage, you were involved in an organisation, do you want to tell us about that?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: I was transferred from there to Uitenhage and some of the people who were there, who were coloureds, are still here today - in this hearing - and I was sentenced.
REVD. XUNDU: In what court were you sentenced?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: I was sentenced in a Regional Court.
REVD. XUNDU: Where was the sitting?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: Here in Uitenhage. I was sentenced to 23 years in jail.
REVD. XUNDU: What was the charge actually?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: It was a charge of a school, a hall and a beer hall.
REVD. XUNDU: How many years did you serve out of the 23?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: I served seven months.
REVD. XUNDU: When were you released?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: I was released in 1991.
REVD. XUNDU: How were you released?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: We were released at the time the President was released, when the political prisoners were released. There used to be lawyers coming to us and they would ask where we came from and so on.
REVD. XUNDU: So, you are out now and you have come to the Commission. What is your wish. What do you want this Commission to do for you.

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: My problem is that, even now, when this Kombi came to fetch us, they found me with my mother . . .
REVD. XUNDU: And what about your living-in?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: No, she has got her own house now.
REVD. XUNDU: So, you know live with your mother?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: Yes, but the person I live with sometimes visits me. I get some part-time jobs and some other times she sells vegetables.
REVD. XUNDU: What is your wish then?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: It is that if you could take care of me and my children, because I have got a problem with my rib. I was on treatment, but the place were I get this treatment is very far and I don't have the money. I have got three children.
REVD. XUNDU: What is the mother to the children doing and what is your mother doing?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: My mother has got a pension and she is still very strong and she is mentally disturbed to an extent that people have got to take care of her.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
 This Mr Gerber you mentioned, is it the same as the same one as mentioned by Mrs Vena earlier on?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: Yes.

MR SANDI: Another name you mentioned is Jimmy Klaas, is that so?

MR SANDI: Is there any other name that Jimmy Klaas has?

MPOMPI MELFRED DLOKOLO: Yes, his other name is Ntzozo, but he is trying to play coloured.

CHAIRPERSON: Mpompi Melfred Dlokolo we thank you for your evidence as submitted before this Commission and even everything you said in your story and we are going to take note of everything to an extent that we shall get to some agreement or decision and if there is any further investigation to be done we shall come back to you. For now we should say thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-27

MR SANDI: We are now going to proceed and listen to the evidence of the victims.  We think we basically have an idea of the events from there on, so from here on we are going to concentrate on people, when they take the stand, we ask that they do not start at the beginning, we know what happened by we'll rather like to hear their stories based on the evidence that we have heard, from Mr Nkobese's evidence through to the other witnesses.  Just adding to that, their details and also add to that how this incident affected their lives, and finally place their requests before the
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Commission and I think from there we are going to use this system because the witnesses were arranged in the order that we received the story itself.  
 The people that are going to give evidence now are going to add their own perceptions to the evidence that we have already heard and then place their requests before the commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Berry and Mr Goqo.  I just want to say very briefly that we are grateful for the testimony that you have given us as ambulance drivers.  I want to say to you that Mr Berry says that there is a certain Mr M W Anderson who was the secretary of the Diaz Divisional Council who told you that you were fired because you had become an embarrassment to the council.  He said that because you decided to stand for the truth, both of you, and because you stood for the truth at that time you became an embarrassment to their Council.
 I want to say that on behalf of the Commission we hope the time will come and it shall not be long when this nation will pause and say you are not an embarrassment to this nation, you are in fact assets of this nation, because you stood for the truth.  We are hoping that the nation should pause one time to say that to both of you.  We are aware of the requests that you have made in terms of your dismissals and we are going to follow those up.  You reminded us, both of you, that there was a time in this country when standing for the truth cost a price, and those comrades that became comrades in 1990 and 1991 after that sometimes forget that, that there was a time in this country when standing for the truth cost something.  Some people lost their lives, others like the guy who was here lost their legs, their limbs.  
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Others lost their loved ones and indeed many people when the crunch came decided not to stand for the truth because they preferred to nurse the opposition in light.
 You told us of a Mr Pillay and a Mr Schulz who say that they did not see the child.  You stood there and said that you saw the child.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-27

PANEL MEMBER: So it means that without the assistance and 
support of your wife, it would be difficult for you to 
function on a day to day basis, is that correct?

MR GQUBULE: That is correct.

PANEL MEMBER: You say that you were an athlete before your 
injuries?

MR GQUBULE: That is correct.

PANEL MEMBER: Before your injuries, what were your dreams 
and your plans for your future?

MR GQUBULE: I was dreaming of being a sportsman and an 
educated person, but because of the fact that we were very 
poor and my parents and I did not have a lot of facilities.

PANEL MEMBER: Mr Gqubule, this is a very difficult question 
but I need to ask you.  On a day to day basis when you think 
about what could have been, and what is now, what goes 
through your mind, and what emotions are surfaced in you?

MR GQUBULE: It is very painful to see myself in this 
condition.  When I see other people I just think that if I 
was not in this condition I was going to be somewhere else 
just like a certain person.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you, my last question.  I know you 
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G GQUBULE: haven't really asked for anything, but you also say you are 
not receiving treatment.  I ask again, is there anything you 
would like the commission to take care of?

MR GQUBULE: I would like to have a better wheelchair than 
the one I have right now.

PANEL MEMBER: And continued medical care?

MR GQUBULE: I don't think I need any special treatment 
medication, besides the fact that sometimes I'm trembling.  
I think it is because of this bullet that is in my body.

PANEL MEMBER: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I might want to 
come back to Mr Gqubule when we summarise at the end.  Thank 
you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Maya is going to lead the next witness.

MS MAYA: Just before we leave Mr Gqubule.  Your life is in 
this condition today, I want to get clarity, when you think 
back, who is responsible for this?

MR GQUBULE: I can say it is Boers, I only know that I'm 
here today, I am like this because of the Boers.

MS MAYA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Gqubule.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

MR SANDI: Is that all you have to say, Mr Makwetu?

MANDLA JOSEPH MAKWETU: Yes.

MR SANDI: Thank you.  Are there any other questions?

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Makwetu.  You can go back to your seat.  We are now going to break for tea, and we will be back at 11:30.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

MIRRIAM NOMULELO MANZIYA: Yes, I have a request, that the Commission could do something for me because the one who died was the one who was taking care of us.  Now that he is gone, there is no one who is of assistance to me.  Thank you.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Ms Manziya, I now hand over to the Chairperson to see if there are any more questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Manziya.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

MR SANDI: In order for us to reach our conclusion, you said 
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D MAY: because of this treatment, you left Port Elizabeth, you 
decided to go to Gauteng, are you a businessman there also?

MR MAY: No, I am just staying there. I am just sitting.

MR SANDI: Towards our conclusion, Mr May, what are your 
wishes, what is your request to the Commission?

MR MAY: My first wish is I want to get a full explanation 
and he must also tell the people of Port Elizabeth and 
Uitenhage about me and he mustn't say that even when I come, 
the people must not look at me and feel jealous, he must 
just explain the details of these accusations.

MR SANDI: Among other things, you say you request that the 
Commission must investigate about your butchery and your 
Club House, the one that you lost under those conditions.  
How can you regain them is that correct?

MR MAY: It is not only that, I want you to investigate, but 
I want this commission to get my butchery back from the ANC. 
 I know that you don't have enough money, but ANC has got 
some means to bring back my house and by butchery and my 
family and to regain my dignity.

MR SANDI: Thank you very much Mr May, we are going to 
investigate, we are going to find the truth, you can now go 
back to your seat.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

BEAUTY LULAMA MBIXANA: Yes, I have.  There was a case opened about this child, I even took the cartridges and took them to some lawyers in North End and they attended to this case for a very long time and I would go there, but one other day I decided to go there and Vanessa said to me, they had said
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that the docket had disappeared.  I went to the police station to find out if it was possible that a docket can disappear, then they denied, and they said that the lawyers did not tell me the truth of what happened to the docket.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Can you remember the name of the lawyer?

BEAUTY LULAMA MBIXANA: Yes, it was Vanessa.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: As said earlier on, I must say that it is very tough that we should remind you of these very painful injuries, but we as the Commission, we are going to try and investigate and get exactly what happened so we thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you Mr Mbixana for sharing your story with us, which is quite painful.  We are going to do as you have asked and try our best to meet your requests and even the docket that is missing, that is with the lawyers, we are going to investigate as to how this has happened.  Then you can go back to your seat.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

ROSEY NOCAWE MHLAWULI: I really can't tell, but I would say, if I were to get some pension because I can never be able to work.

MS GOBODO: Was there any court case opened about what happened to you?

ROSEY NOCAWE MHLAWULI: No. There wasn't.

MS GOBODO: You just decided to sit because you were scared?

ROSEY NOCAWE MHLAWULI: Yes, I was. Even consulting doctors, I have never been since that time I last consulted Dr Mzimba and I went to hospital once and I explained what had happened to me and I was frightened, even then.

MS GOBODO: Can Thobile's mother give evidence about your shooting?

ROSEY NOCAWE MHLAWULI: Yes, she can.

MS GOBODO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Pumla.
 Are there any questions?
 Mrs Mhlawuli we thank you for your story as presented before this Commission and we promise that we are going to make a follow up like all other incidents. 
 If there are any other things we would like to be clear about, we are going to call you, for now everything is clear. We thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

CHAIRPERSON: Nombuyiselo we thank you as this Commission for coming forward with your story which is causing pain to you which cannot easily heal within you.
 After so many years we still see tears running down the way its happening because of your brother then this is an indication that this is a deep pain within you.
 In other words we would say we have a wish that those who were in the government at the time, should be present here in these hearings to observe these tears, to observe the pain that was caused during their regime. 
 The National Party last week gave its submission before the Commission and made mention that there was a time of total onslaught. When they decided to respond in the total onslaught and we know that the youth like your brother got hurt a lot during that time and it is them who carried the heavy load of the liberation and freedom. 
 Some of them disappeared and did it ended there, and some disappeared but they were found dead.
 There are questions that are still there as to what actually happened to them as you are saying before this Commission. We therefore thank you for your testimony and I would truthfully like to say that some of the questions that I asked can never have questions ever, because those perpetrators did it in a very secret way, in such a way that it would be very difficult to get the actual truth and we remaining suspecting one another.
 There are filthy things that were done by experts who were experts of evil as a result. 
 All we can do therefore we shall do to the best of our ability with the help of God and perhaps we will be able to answer some of the questions as to what happened to your brother. 
 We thank you therefore for your testimony and you should know that the freedom that South Africa has got is a result of the attempts that were made by Vuyani. This is causing pain to you but I would like you to think that you are here today because of the struggles that were done by people like Vuyani. We therefore thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

MS MAYA: Is that all Ms Ndungane?

NOMBUYISELO MARGARET NDUNGANE: Yes, that is all.

MS MAYA: We thank you.  Over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Over to you Mr Sandi.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Thank you Ms Ndungane.  UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
6 N NDUNGANE
I would like to ask this one question, so as to have everything clear.  You made mention of a name, Faku.  There is such a name that has been constantly mentioned.  Now, which Faku have you referred to?

NOMBUYISELO MARGARET NDUNGANE: This Faku is the one who died, and I feel bad that he died because I wish he could still be alive and I would be addressing him even now because the horrible and painful things that he said to me.

MR SANDI: They say that he died, what was the cause of the death?

NOMBUYISELO MARGARET NDUNGANE: I don't know, he died somewhere. I don't know where they were even getting to.

MR SANDI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you Ms Ndungane.  As a result of the fact that there are some cases that we had to stop yesterday, which we have to look into today, and because we are behind schedule, we are therefore going to ask that we should have about 40 minutes lunch break to resume at 1:40.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-27

CHAIRPERSON: Can we go to the next witness please.  As this point in time we are going to ask Ms Nosipo Maria Nobatana.

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Nobatana I would like to welcome you for coming here today to give us your testimony about your son, Aubrey Vuyo Nobatana, who was shot on that particular day.  How old was Aubrey?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: He was 16 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you get the news that he was shot on that particular day?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: I heard the gunshots after the procession went down.

CHAIRPERSON: After that, you went to New Brighton mortuary.

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: Yes, we went to New Brighton mortuary.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it where you found his body?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us as a Commission about your son's death, how the whole thing affected you as a family at home.  We have already got details from other witnesses.  They were telling us about the incident on that particular
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day, can you tell us how did you cope with the death of this young boy?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: The person who is at home right now is me and my late son, and his sister but the sister is now staying at Kwanubushle.  I am now staying alone in the house.  I am not satisfied, I am still dissatisfied up till this day because if my child was still alive I would be staying with him.

CHAIRPERSON: How far did he go at school, what standard was he doing?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: He was doing Std.4.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go to the Jubilee Hotel?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: Yes, I've been to Jubilee Hotel.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you mention your dissatisfaction?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: Yes, I told them I was not satisfied, concerning the money that they gave me because my child was going to support me financially.  My son was going to bury me and this R15 000 is not enough, is not equivalent to that what he would do if he was still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us about your request?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: I ask that at least they must add something.  I feel that they must add something.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you getting any pension fund?  Are you getting any pension?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: Yes, I am getting a pension.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all that you would like to say today?

NOSIPO MARIA NOBATANA: That is all, but I am not well.  When I went to the doctor the doctor asked me what was wrong and I told the doctor and the doctor said I am suffering from high blood pressure.  The doctor is Mr Castle.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.