Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

DR KLATZOW: You were a key figure in the early stages, you lost friends and colleagues aboard that aircraft, you are a professional man and not only that, I happen to know that there are regular briefings about aircraft accidents and this one would have been particularly important, which and pilots undergo and you often present Captain Mitchell.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Not really, but that's another thought.  I haven't thought down that line, so I take note of what  you're saying.

DR KLATZOW: Yes.  And I want to put it to you that the reason the Jimmy Mittens report never got before Margo is that he and the rest of his crew were intimidated because you've conceded to this Commission that his interpretation was a reasonable interpretation.  You disagree with it but it an interpretation.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Certainly.

DR KLATZOW: And furthermore, that in some inexplicable way you were summoned by Margo to his house in the middle of the night at the same time as the flight engineers ...[intervention]

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, no, no, I didn't say the middle, that's dramatic.

DR KLATZOW: Some time at night.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, it was daytime.

DR KLATZOW: Whatever.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, that's important.

DR KLATZOW: No, it's not important.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: It is.

DR KLATZOW: The fact is ...[intervention]

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: We must report accurately.

DR KLATZOW: Well, let's record it accurately.  You were summoned to Margo's house outside the proper sitting of the hearing, together with the flight engineers, which corresponds with what they have told us despite the fact that you deny everything else that they have told us.  And incidentally that version had to be wrung out of you with some difficulty.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sorry, I've got a bad memory but I was as helpful as I can be.

DR KLATZOW: Well, Captain Mitchell, a lot of the help that you've given us, I must tell you has been inadvertent.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Well, I'm sorry, I would have like to have been more direct.

DR KLATZOW: I have no further questions.

MR MAGADLA: Mr Mitchell, when you were summoned to Justice Margo's house, did you have a personal lawyer or did you have a lawyer for the company, for SAA at that time?  A lawyer who represented the SAA in the Commission?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Present with me at that visit Mr Magadla?

MR MAGADLA: No, no, no, not with you but did you have your own personal lawyer at the time, not going there with him, just a lawyer looking after your own affairs, personal affairs.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: My personal affairs?

MR MAGADLA: Mm.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Is that my personal or South African Airways affairs?

MR MAGADLA: Both, let's say both.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Alright.  The lawyers of South African Airways were the men from Transnet, the people from Barlow and Clyde in London and Mr Puckrin.

MR MAGADLA: Okay.  Now, did you inform at any one of them or did you inform Mr Puckrin that we you were being summoned by Justice Margo to go to this house at night?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, it wasn't at night Sir.

MR MAGADLA: Or whatever time.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, it sounds dramatic at night but it wasn't ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Well, let's leave the drama, but did you inform them that you had been summoned by Justice Margo to go to his house, which you knew was very irregular, highly irregular for him to have done that?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sir with respect, I did not know it was irregular.  It might sound dumb but believe me, I did not know it was irregular.  If a Judge says to me to come to his house, don't argue, I'm going.

MR MAGADLA: But then knowing that he's investigating that matter and he's presiding on that Commission and that you were a likely witness in that matter, did you not see it fit to inform the lawyer that represented the company SAA, that: "Look, I'm being called by that Judge, I don't know what questions he wants to ask me, I just thought I should let you know or tell me what to say when I get to him"?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, I didn't do that because I'm not aware of the legal process.  It's exactly the same as I've come here today, with an open mind and open statement here.  I've got no lawyer with me now.

MR MAGADLA: Are you saying you did not know that there was a lawyer looking after the interests of SAA?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, I've said there was, the whole system was in place but I was not, I really was not aware that what the Judge, he was interfering with the process.

MR MAGADLA: After you had seen the Judge, did you go to, did you inform the lawyer as to what the Judge had said to you?  I mean, the company was preparing their own version into what happened to the Helderberg, now that's done in conjunction with all the role players, the main role players like yourself.  Now you are being called by a Judge somewhere privately or otherwise and you go there, what about informing these other people, the people who were actually in charge of the interests of the company?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I wonder whether the other people who went to the Judge also informed the company's lawyers of the process.

MR MAGADLA: No, I'm talking about yourself Mr Mitchell.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sir, I didn't inform anybody because I didn't think it was relevant.

MR MAGADLA: Did you inform them as to what the Judge had said to you?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Well, I don't know what the Judge said to me Sir, I'm trying to remember what it was about.  I ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: No, at that time.  You forget now, it's a long time now but after you had been to the Judge, did you go to the other members and say to them: "What did he call you for, he called me for this, this is what he said to me"?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I get the point ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Or: "Have we been saying the same thing to the Judge or not"?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, we didn't compare notes with anybody, I really didn't.  I can't ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Did you tell your family that you had been called by the Judge and he had this to say to you?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Probably.  If I look at my diary, no, it's 10 years ago, you won't find it.  It will be in my diary that I went there.  Probably I would have told my wife I've been or my secretary, that I would have gone.  I'm sounding particularly dull, I'm very sorry.

MR MAGADLA: Maybe finally just in a nutshell, what did you seek to clarify with the documents that you have before you now?