Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR DLAMINI: Now, if you want to know would it be easy to get the witnesses who saw the incident?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: Do you have the case number?  Did Kunene give you a case number?

WITNESS:   No, there was no case.

MR DLAMINI: Did you get the death certificate?

WITNESS:   It's the same as that other one that you have with you.

MR DLAMINI: Is Kunene still around?

WITNESS:   Yes, he is.

MR DLAMINI: So if we want the records we can get them?

WITNESS:   Yes, you can.

MR LYSTER: Mr Maseko, thank you for telling us your stories.  You are another one of the victims of Mpophomeni township.  You lost your brother and your son in the space of one and a half years.  This area, Mpophomeni, has seen more than its share of suffering over the last 10 years, and from the evidence that we heard yesterday and today it seems clear that the labour conflict in 1985, and the intolerance shown by the employer at that time of the Sarmcol strike, has had a great deal to do with the tragedies which occurred in the years to come.  You have helped us to put together a picture, a vivid Picture of what was happening, the sort of lawlessness which was taking placing in the township at the time, and the stories that you have told us will find their way into the report that we have to write for the Government at the end of our period of office.
With regard to assistance from the Commission, you've heard me say that recommendations will be made to the Government as to how people like yourself should be assisted.  So thank you again very much for coming in to talk to us today, and we wish you well.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: The following witness is Lawrence Dladla, Lawrence Fanizini Dladla.  Can he come up to the stage?  We will be breaking at 1.30 for lunch.  We are running late today.  People have had a lot to say, a lot of tragic stories to tell, and we are running a little later than we expected to, so we will be running until half past one, we will have a maximum 30 minute lunch break until 2 o'clock, and we will resume again at 2 o'clock.  Mr Dladla, can you hear me through the earphones?

LAWRENCE FANIZINI DLADLA: Yes, I can.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... moved from Mpophomeni to Mpumalanga township, where you come from, and you have come to tell us about the killing, the murder of your sons, Molo Dladla, Fox Dladla, and Zakhele Dladla.  You have suffered the terrible tragedy of losing three children in political violence.

LAWRENCE FANIZINI DLADLA: Four of them, not three.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... Dladla as well.  Four sons in political violence, and we all extend our deep, deep sympathies to you.  Before you give your evidence can you please stand and take the oath.

LAWRENCE FANIZINI DLADLA: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... to assist you with your evidence.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Greetings, Mr and Mrs Dladla, and welcome.  Before we continue with the different stories which you're going to tell us, and they are four different stories over four different periods of time, can you tell us a little bit about your family, how many children there are, and so on?

WITNESS:   I had 11 kids.  /I had

MR LAX: I had seven sons and four daughters.

MR LAX: These difficult circumstances that took place must be quite hard for you to tell us about, but if you can please persevere, and if we can start with the story that relates to your son, Molo Dladla.  He was 18 years old at the time that he was killed, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was 18.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... 12th of November 1988.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... yesterday that there was a lot of trouble and upheaval in Mpumalanga at that time between various political organisations.

WITNESS:   That's true.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... us the story of Molo.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Order please.

WITNESS:   I sent Molo, my son, to a dry cleaner, Webber's Dry Cleaner.  It was early in the morning.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... in the morning.  Do you remember the time?

WITNESS:   I am not sure, but I will say 8 o'clock.  He left for a while up until 3 o'clock.  I heard gunfire.  One guy came to tell us that someone had shot my son at the bus stop or taxi rank.  And I was at home.  I felt like I am losing my mind, and I wanted to leave my house and run and go and see what was going on at the taxi rank.  I saw policemen whom we used to call them "shayabhuka," and they were in green uniforms and they came.  And my wife and I we went there because we wanted to know more, because someone has also told us that other three people have been shot as well.  And when we arrived there my son was no longer there.  They have taken him.  They have taken him to a mortuary, and we were not there.  And they said when they arrived there my son wasn't there, but they just saw the blood, his blood.  The next morning one boer came to my house.  His name was van Vuuren.  He said to me, "We found your son.  We've been looking for him for a long time, and you've been telling us he's not around, and you've been telling us he's working in town."  Because they have been looking for him, but I knew my son didn't commit any crime, but he was a leader of the Comrades.  And then I said to this white guy, "Are you sure you found him?" and this white guy said, "Yes, we did.  Let's come and we will show you."  And they said to me, "You must come tomorrow morning to us.  We will show you."  I said, "Okay," and the next morning I went to the police station.  When I arrived there van Vuuren, this boer, said, "You, we've been coming to your house looking for your son, and now we've found him.  Now I can cancel his case."  And I asked him, "What did he do?"  And then he said, "No, your son, we've been hearing a lot about him.  We've been hearing that he's the hottest guy amongst the Comrades."  And when he was talking he was happy, and he said to me, "They thought they were gun proof.  We found them now."  And they told me to come with them to their car.  They took me, they left with me.  I was quiet all along.  And then they came back with him.  And it was very cold, it was like it's snowing.  I went there with them because I wanted to see my son's body, and my heart was torn apart when I saw bodies, corpses, being packed on top of each other, and I said, "How come I can't see my son?" when I looked over.  Mr Mchunu, who was working with Dr Thomson -Dr Thomson who was the pathologist doing the post-mortem -I saw him on top of the table.  There was no space where you can put your feet because there were corpses all over the place.  And I looked around and my heart was torn apart, and I saw my son.  I looked at him.  I saw one big hole on his chest and I said to myself, "Oh my God, my son is lying there forever."  My son told me that we should move from that place, and I said, "No, I won't go back there because I might die."  And I said to myself, "Oh, sleep well, my son."  Mchunu asked me, "Where are you going to take your son?  Which mortuary are you going to take him to?"  And I said to him, "I don't know," because Mpumalanga Mortuary didn't want to take our bodies, and again I won't bury my son at Mpumalanga township.  Archie Gumede was the one who helped me to find a cemetery where I could bury my son, and this was at Clermont location.  Then we started preparing for the funeral now.  We prepared for the night vigil.  My wife was crying, because while we were waiting for the funeral service the white men used to come and search my wife, and she used to cry all the time.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   I said boers police.

MR LAX: Do you know where they were from?

WITNESS:   I think they were from 'Maritzburg, because those policemen were policemen which we didn't known.