Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-01-31

PUMELELE GUMENGU: There was nothing much though I was given a mandate to check the roadblocks and do some of the things, but that never happened.  But even when I came with them nothing happened though I was amongst them, nothing that I did with my own hands.

JUDGE MILLER: So on the day that the coup took place you say you came with them, what did you do, did you get in a motor vehicle and sit in the back seat and drive into Umtata, or where were you, what did you do?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: The cars were driven to Umtata and we alighted from the vehicles in Umtata, people went to different camps and I also left with them.

JUDGE MILLER: And you did nothing though.

PUMELELE GUMENGU: No, I never did anything because even the people who were in my company did not know me.  I only knew Craig Duli and I was never given any instruction to do anything because the task that I was given by Craig Duli on that day was to check the roadblocks only, there was no other duty that was assigned to me.  But my problem is that my car broke in Engcobo, that is why I was in their cars.
	I had to be there after the mission and I had to contact them, but my car broke down at Engcobo, therefore I couldn't do that.  And I was not going to do that because at the time I had already had an appointment with Mr Mzinyathi in Umtata, but I couldn't even reach my appointment on that morning of the 22nd because of the car breakdown.

JUDGE MILLER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR SIBANYONI: You said you were planted, you were supposed to pretend as if you were part of the Duli group, when were you supposed to stop doing that and tell the truth that in fact you were not part of the Duli group?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: There was no time-frame but your handler or the government would summon you and tell you that you are finished with this target because the docket is closed for these reasons, or the file was closed for these reasons, therefore you would be given another assignment.  We worked according to targets.  If one is finished with the targets because of different reasons, you would go to another target as per instruction.

MR SIBANYONI: By the government you are referring to the Holomisa government, military council?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: And you said you didn't receive a salary, they were not paying you they were only giving you what you call operational allowance.

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct, Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Now what reward were you supposed to get for risking your life to pretend to be part of the coup and also to pretend that you were part of the group, even during the trial to accept the long term of imprisonment?  What benefit were you supposed to get out of that?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: The benefit was the pleasure of serving the people and die for the people of your country, that was the benefit, that was the reward, that's all.

MR SIBANYONI: When you got indemnity the same who were part of the Duli group got indemnity, is that so?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: When you applied for indemnity you never informed that Committee that you were not actually part of the Duli group, you were planted by the government?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I was not in a position to reveal that because I was already sentenced and they knew only one thing, that I was one of them, therefore I never revealed that information.

MR SIBANYONI: When did you reveal this information for the first time?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: My application before the establishment of the Truth Commission, it was still talks going on and I forwarded an application explaining my condition and I was told to wait because there would be a body that was going to be established, the Truth Commission that is, therefore they were going to handle the matter.

MR SIBANYONI: But when did you say for the first time that in actual fact you were not in one mind with the group, you were only infiltrating them?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: The government that I was serving was aware of this because they used to visit me and I would give them reports.  Secondly, the Board of Inquiry that was held in 1995 from my department, I told them about this and they were satisfied because it was exactly what they knew.  The Truth Commission, even during my first application I made mention of that because I think I made my application while there was still this indemnity process, that TRC, therefore I forwarded all my statements and it was mentioned.  Even during the TRC when I got the chance to forward another application, I explained the situation as it was.

MR SIBANYONI: Are there any of the people who were your superiors present and who are in a position to support your version of the story?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I think there are people who can support my statement, Mr Mzinyathi, Mr ...(indistinct) and others like Gen Lavisa, Brig Dengane and the other people who were there and Gen Kawe.  I think they can support this statement.  Though I cannot be sure these days that people are working for themselves now and I don't even know the kind of life that they are living, but I think each and every person who was at the head office at the time, they knew my story.
	The whole office in Butterworth where I was recruited to go and serve outside, I am quite sure that they know the story.  And another person that I started to work with in 1987, Col Stofile, who is now a pensioner, I think he can support the fact that I was working differently from the other people, because since I started working in 1987 in Gauteng, I was still working for the Transkei Government, moving all over the country and going to other countries serving my government.
	The person who can deny that, I don't know what could be the reason.  Perhaps that person can say he does not know about the instructions because he was not present when the instruction was issued, but as far as my operations were concerned, I think the people know that I was a police officer but I was working in different places in different missions.

MR SIBANYONI: I notice that when you completed the application form you didn't give particulars, there are a lot of questions where you were saying the nature and particulars will be submitted later and your application was completed on the 30th April '97 and these particulars you completed on the 10th of June 1998.  So there is a long period - or let me rephrase my question to say, why you were not prepared to give the particulars when you were making application for amnesty?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: The reason I think it's because as time goes on you try and remember well things that happened, but even now that I've testified here I cannot say for sure that I have said everything that I wanted to say, everything that happened in all these years in my service as a policeman.  I can remember something tomorrow whereas the very same detail I might think that it is not as important as the facts that I would like to ask amnesty for.

MR SIBANYONI: Finally, so what you are telling is that you never had intentions to operate a coup in the Transkei, or to put it simply, you never committed any crime or offence?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I want to tell you that my presence there was merely to serve the Transkeian people.  Yes, people died, many things happened but I'm asking for forgiveness because I did all those things because of politics.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

JUDGE MILLER: Just one more question Mr Chairman.
	What rank did you hold at the time, Mr Gumengu?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: When I was arrested in 1990 I was a Lieutenant, but when I left to work in the outside offices in 1987, I was a Sergeant.  I only acquired the other ranks like Warrant Officer, while I was outside.