Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-26

MR RILEY: So he is available then to confirm what you've said about your visit to the lawyer?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I'm not sure if he is still present but when I came he was in here.

MR RILEY: But he would be able to confirm what you said about the visit to the lawyer and what happened there because a lot of what has been said here is that you weren't telling the ANC what had happened that clearly Mr Nkwatcho and Mr Langa were senior people within the ANC structures and one would therefore assume that if you went with him to a lawyer that the ANC would be notified about what had happened?  So he would be able to tell us?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: Now the other aspect that I want to clarify with you is just to get it totally cleared out of the way, you were not aware that the TRC had an investigative unit or in fact were themselves investigating for example certain killings of political figures like for example Mr Pro Jack.  You were not aware of that, were you?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes I only got to know that when Mr Mark Killian came to me.

MR RILEY: And that was in fact the circumstances under which Mr Killian approached you, to enquire from you whether you knew anything about the death of Mr Pro Jack, is that correct?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: But up until that stage you had assumed that if I understand your evidence correctly that the lawyers and all the people who knew about the incident would in fact make arrangements that the issue be disclosed to all the relevant people?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: So as far as you were concerned, you had notified people about what had happened?  It wasn't a situation where you were totally silent, no one knew what had happened, people knew but people were obviously not speaking?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct like Mr Langa and the lawyers told them.

MR RILEY: And Mr Nkwatcho according to your evidence?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: Just one other aspect, one of the tribunal members did raise it with you, the issue that you had in fact guarded the house, that did in fact happen, I mean you guarded the house but it is also true that you were in fact instructed to guard the house, is that not so?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: But you couldn't very well refuse to in fact guard the house in those circumstances, you really didn't have a choice quite frankly?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: Thank you Honourable Chair, I have no further questions at this time.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RILEY

MR WILLIAMS: Mr Chairperson, two questions came out under cross-examination which I would like to address with your permission and the Committee's?

CHAIRPERSON: Under cross-examination where Mr Williams?

MR WILLIAMS: When my colleague Advocate Ismail cross-examined the applicant as well as Ms Patel.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, is it matters of import?

MR WILLIAMS: It might become relevant later if I decide to call Mr Ntamo as a witness so the one is a statement that I want to put to the witness and the other one is a question I want to ask him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well sincerely hoping that we will stick to the real issues in this matter and that is the amnesty application before us.  I appreciate that there are many, many unanswered questions and rumours and everything else, you know, but eventually we have an amnesty application before us which we have to decide in terms of the law and you know, one trusts that that is what we will be doing here.

MR WILLIAMS: Mr Chairperson, I'm completely at your hands but it's issues which might affect Mr Ntamo later.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Yes, no we accept your word in that regard.  I just thought it's perhaps ...(indistinct) that we make these few remarks.  I'll allow you to, you say there's two issues that you want to deal with?

MR WILLIAMS: Yes Chairperson, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Yekwani, I've allowed the lawyer, Mr Williams, he says that there are some points that he didn't deal with when he questioned you earlier that came up in your evidence when you were questioned by some of the other lawyers which he wants to deal with.  I'm going to allow him to do that, he says it's just two limited issues so he'll ask you further questions.  Yes Mr Williams?

MR WILLIAMS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Sir, Mr Ntamo denies that you told him that you killed a policeman in Khayelitsha and he further denies that that is the reason why you were sent for training to Transkei.  Do you want to comment on that?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: I think that was the only reason for me to go and get the training but I did also tell him about this incident that involved the killing, the shooting of the police because the incident took place at about 5 in the morning.  I met him on my way to KTC and I had told him that the firearm that I was using is left in Khayelitsha and I also told him that I shot the police.

MR WILLIAMS: As I've said he denies that.  The second question is you said earlier under cross-examination that Mr Ntamo knew that you were going to attack the police.  Did you assume that you know or did he actually tell you that he knew that you were going to attack the police?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: When I asked for a firearm from him there was nothing else I could do with the firearm except attacking the police.

MR WILLIAMS: But you're perfectly aware that at the time, at that time the ANC had ceased its armed operations and that the SDUs were called in to intervene merely for defensive purposes?  Sorry, to protect the community and not go on the offensive?

MR RILEY: Mr Chairperson, is this not new evidence at this time that is being presented now?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes it could be Mr Riley but perhaps you know it's not such a wide ranging issue, it's not the first time that this Panel hears about SDUs and their purpose so you know even the name sort of gives away the purpose so perhaps you know your client could, if he can help us with that, perhaps just respond to that?
	Mr Yekwani what is being put to you is that the self defence units were really established to protect and defend the community, in other words you were defending people and was not so much to attack but rather to defend.  Now how would you understand it?

XOLA TEMBINKOSI YEKWANI: Protecting or defending the people can be different in so many ways and even when it comes to police you cannot wait for police to attack because we knew very well that when the police come to our communities they were going to shoot.  Just by merely seeing a person, I wanted to shoot that policeman because of the activities that they were involved in though nothing was said more about the armed struggle but all the things that the police did caused some dissatisfaction in the community.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Williams?

MR WILLIAMS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLIAMS

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Yekwani, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Riley, is there any further evidence?

MR RILEY: Mr Chairperson, at this time there's no further evidence from Mr Yekwani's side.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  So that would be his case?

MR RILEY: That is effectively his case at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you Mr Riley.

MR RILEY: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Toyise you've listened to the evidence that Mr Yekwani gave to us?  You've heard what he said?

MR TOYISE: Yes that is correct, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, is there anything that you want to put to us, is there any evidence that you want to give to us that you want to present in this application?  If so then I'm going to give you an opportunity now before I go to the other parties.