Special Hearings — Conscription Hearings — 1997-07-23

WENDY ORR: Professor Hattingh thank you very much for givingus a very different  perspective perhaps to the types of perspectiveswhich we heard this morning although a lot of what you said ratifiedand backed up the very academic perspective we had this morningabout how background and environment and societal influences makeit easier to participate in the South African Defence force. I probably don't begin to realise how difficult it must be fora White Afrikaans man to talk out the way you have to-day.  Youstill live within an Afrikaans community and you are still partof that community and perhaps will have to go back and answerto that community, and I want to say thank you very much for yourcourage in coming to share your experiences with us.

PROF HATTINGH: May I add something as a last statementperhaps.  I listened to the question you asked Ian Liebenbergand his answers and I made a note that if you ask me a similarquestion I could perhaps answer so I have repeated that question. You asked how could we contribute and reshape the Security Forcesin future and I think one thing, the obvious thing of course isto say that we should demonstrate that it serves the whole ofthe community.  I think that is a very obvious thing but on amore deeper almost philosophical level I think one should alwaysremember and take into account that security and peace forms the- is an integral part of our human dignity and that we shouldalways remind our Security Forces that that is what they are defendingnot only our physical security but also our human dignity, whowe are as persons.  And in the training,  I think what I've highlightedin my point here is that in the training in order to establishand give that service to the community one could also compromisethe dignity and the security of the very people who are requiredto deliver that service.  Maybe as a small contribution from myside on this philosophical point maybe I should conclude.  Thankyou.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Before you go I just want toknow what's your mother's name?

PROF HATTINGH: My mother's name is Kristorene Hattingh.

CHAIRPERSON: Kristorene.  I can't help wondering whatwas going on in her mind just, you know,  the sense of reflectionon it all you know for her to put her words on paper.

PROF HATTINGH: I shared this submission with my familyduring the past week and she cried.  Her exact words were, andI think with her permission I could repeat it as she gave me permissionto read out her letter, she said she has a deep feeling of wehave been caught for suckers, and I think that is an emotion perhapsthat the Commission should also look into, that people have felta sincere need to contribute at that stage during the '70's andthe '80's to the armed forces only later to discover what happened,what the broader picture was.
 This morning my father phoned me and he said after having readthis, he never knew that these were the things that we had todeal with on a personal level.  Then he also added we as individuals,as conscripts never knew what the emotions were that they hadto deal with as parents so I think this submission fulfilled afunction that they got to know certain sides of the experiencesthat they've never have had access to before.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Professor Hattingh,thank you.  This phase of the meeting to-day will be devoted tothe reading of some of the  summaries of statements that havebeen submitted to us.
 Just very briefly and this will set the tone for the final presentationwhich will be a discussion on the way forward and we have thepeople appearing on the programme, those who are going to participatein this.   There is one statement that was submitted and it turnsout that the person is actually present with us to-day.  We wishto welcome you John Deegan and we apologise that we do not havethe proper, oh we do have the - we are very organised.  John willbring his own identity with him which is the tag that is attachedin front of him with his name written on it.   
 Thank you John and welcome to you Paul Haupt as well.  Thankyou very much.  Paul is accompanying John, Paul is one of thebriefers in the Commission and many of you might have seen hisface both in person and perhaps also on the broadcast of our programmes. Paul assists many of our witnesses who come to give testimony. Welcome to you John and I will hand over to Doctor Wendy Orrwho will facilitate your presentation.

WENDY ORR: Thank you Pumla.  John welcome, I know the journeyof getting here has not been an easy one and we are most gratefulto you for coming here to-day.  Your story is a very long oneand it has many quite horrifying and remarkable details and incidents. You know the time is constrained and we do have a full statementfrom you so what I would like you to do is highlight some of theissues which stand out for you as the most important, most relevant,most painful or most difficult during your years in the army,thank you John.
EX-KOEVOET MEMBER