Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-10

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Madikane we thank you very much for appearing before the Commission to try and help us to find out the truth.  I think that your presence here at the Commission is a contribution and I hope that you will continue helping us so that we can find an answer for the Gush family so that they may be satisfied.  We hope that your position as a policeman who was present on that particular day although you were not in NU 13 can help us to answer this question.  We will ask you to help us and to bear with us if we come back to you asking for more information.  You've already said that it is very painful  for you to be accused of something you never did.  If it is possible for us as the Commission to find out the truth and report this to the family you will be accepted back in Mdantsane community because we have found out the truth.  If you can help us to find out the truth I think that the family will be free and you as well because I don't think that this stigma about you can be removed if we don't find an answer to their question and to the people who were affected by this incident.  Please bear with us if we come back to you as the Commission.  Maybe our investigators may come back to you to ask you certain questions in order to find out the truth.  We'd like to thank you very much for now and thank you Mr van Heerden.  As I said earlier we are not contemplating making a finding at this stage.  The matter is going to be a subject of
ongoing investigation by our investigation unit.

MR VAN HEERDEN: Thank you Mr Chairman may I stand up?

BONGANI FINCA: Please.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr S.S. Gola please come forward together Mr Mbandazayo.   Mr Mbandazayo I would like to confirm your name and the name of your client and why you are appearing before the Commission to-day.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman I confirm that my name is Lugani Mbandazayo and I represent Mr Gola, Sitile Simon Gola thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Gola what is your full name?

UNKNOWN: Sitile.

BONGANI FINCA: Before we hand over to Mr Mbandazayo so that he can lead you please stand so that we can swear you in.  Reverend Xundu will swear you in.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mr Gola we'll hand over to Mr Mbandazayo to lead Mr Gola in evidence.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman as you are aware you have a summary of the evidence in front of you which is going to be presented by my client.  At this stage I will try and lead him on the points which have been raised in that statement.  Mr Gola you were here when the complainant was giving evidence before the Commission can you in your own words tell the Commission what happened on the day in question.

UNKNOWN: First of all I would like to thank this Commission for having come to Mdantsane so that we are able to talk about this accusation.  On the said day I was on duty.  I was driving in a Ford Sierra GCE 23479 when I heard a report on the radio that the people were trying to lower a flag at NU 13 police station and all the police cars should go there.  As I was alone in the car I drove and got to NU 13 where there were a whole lot of people but nothing was happening at that time.  I was driving behind a police van.  This van parked on one side at the NU 13 police station and I parked on the other side.
 Just after I had switched the car off I heard a bang on the car's window behind me.  When I looked there were a whole lot of stones being thrown at car and the back window was broken.  I thought it best not to get out of the car as I might be attacked because they were throwing stones.  However I did get out of the car and rolled into the police station.   Shots were fired from the police at NU 13 and the people dispersed.  As my car was damaged I asked the man in authority of the whole operation to summons a finger print expert to come.  Photographs were taken and I opened a case.  I don't know anything about this man being shot, thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mr Sitile Gola.  Mr Mbandazayo may we ask a few questions?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No objections Mr Chairman.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Sandi?

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Gola I'm going to ask you a few short questions, did you every find out who shot this man?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No truly but Inspector Madikane's name and mine were mentioned.

MR SANDI: Who mentioned your names?

UNKNOWN: It just went around.

MR SANDI: Was it on the radio, in the newspapers or was it people?

UNKNOWN: Just the people around and we don't know who but we heard that our names were mentioned.

MR SANDI: Have you ever shot anyone as a policeman.

UNKNOWN: No, I've never shot anyone.

MR SANDI: You don't have a record of having shot anyone, perhaps by mistake?

UNKNOWN: No, I do not.

MR SANDI: Did you carry a gun as a policeman?

UNKNOWN: Yes, even now and previously as well.

MR SANDI: On the day that you ran for cover did you shoot?

UNKNOWN: I couldn't shoot the people because it was a crown and there were too many stones coming my way.

MR SANDI: Thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Miss Maya?

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Gola just a few questions.  Were you stationed at NU 13?

UNKNOWN: No, I was stationed in Bisho.

MS MAYA: Did you come from Bisho on this day or when did you leave Bisho to go to NU 13?

UNKNOWN: On that day I was instructed to work in Mdantsane to keep order.

MS MAYA: When were these instructions given, where they given on that day or previously?

UNKNOWN: On that particular day.

MS MAYA: What exactly were the instructions?

UNKNOWN: That order must be kept in the entire Mdantsane.

MS MAYA: What would you have done if there were damages?

UNKNOWN: We'd have to report to the authorities.

MS MAYA: You said you'd heard on radio that the police must go and help with the crowd at NU 13, what kind of help were you instructed to give?

UNKNOWN: To protect the police station premises and the police.

MS MAYA: How would you protect yourselves, what were you going to do there?

UNKNOWN: It would have depended on the situation.

MS MAYA: When you rushed to NU 13, what were your intentions?

UNKNOWN: To protect the police and police premises.

MS MAYA: I've not yet got an answer that I would like.  When you stopped the car and stones were thrown at you, how far were you from the NU 13 policemen?

UNKNOWN: I said that as I parked the car there was a bang and when I looked my car was being stoned.  Two of the stones smashed the window and I crawled into the police station.

MS MAYA: Where were the rest of the policemen, could they see you or were you much further?

UNKNOWN: If we could go to NU 13 I would explain this.  If this is the police station there were a whole lot of cars parked right next to the police station.

MS MAYA: Did you see other policemen when you were parking?

UNKNOWN: Yes, but because of the stones everybody tried to run for cover.

MS MAYA: Did you know the policemen at NU 13?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I knew some of them, some were from Zwelitsha and others were from Bisho.

MS MAYA: Did you see the police that were shooting and were there police when you got up?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  As I said I looked around when I heard the bang and I ran for cover when I realised that there were a lot of stones being thrown.

MS MAYA: So what you're saying is the bullet sounds were from the police at NU 13, how did you know this?

UNKNOWN: I said that shots were fired by the police.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Gola even though you haven't answered my question.

UNKNOWN: I have answered your question.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Gola, please answer the question, whoever is asking the question does not matter please just answer it.  According to your statement shots were fired by the police.

UNKNOWN: I said by the police.

BONGANI FINCA: Who were they shooting at?

UNKNOWN: I don't know I just heard them shooting.

BONGANI FINCA: Would police shoot other police?