Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-07

MR PRIOR: Sorry, Mr Mbandazayo, if you could just stop fiddling with that paper, it's just picking up on the mike and making a bit of background noise.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Sorry, Mr Chairman.

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: Now, in this case he asked me that I should organise accommodation for a number of Africans that arrived and I did so.  It was not something that is surprising in the sense that in 1986, Comrade Mlambo had already declared that armed people liberate Azania and that clarion call was nothing else other than the fact that it was telling the Azanians that the freedom fighters, the God loving children of Africa were coming to defend God's creation, the repossession of the African soil and I wanted - it was those reasons that I had to give this assistance.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, Mr Ntintili, when they arrived did you know that they are going to attack the Golf Club or not when you harboured them and you gave them accommodation?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: I didn't know the specifics of their mission but one thing that I know, I know that they have come to honour that clarion call from the Chief of Operations, then, John Silemblambo, that is to arm the people and liberate Azania.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you have heard - the committee have heard that the - you've also said that the affidavit of Thembelani Xundu should be incorporated in yours in as far as it relates to you.  Now in the affidavit of Thembelani Xundu, Thembelani Xundu told this Committee that he gave you arms after your operation at Golf Club at page 18, paragraph 22, there at the top "Xundu" that he gave weapons to you.  When he gave these weapons to you did you know then that these weapons were used in the Golf Club?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: No I didn't know.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now further to that paragraph, further to paragraph 23, Thembelani Xundu says that "On Tuesday I ordered Comrade Lungisumsi Ntintili to assist us dispose the car and it was for the first time that he had some knowledge about the operation, I ordered him to drive the Jetta and I drove his maroon Rover.  He disposed the car at.."  Now how did you become aware?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: It was on that evening when they came to my place and Thembelani came, I mean, was the one who got into the house and he asked me that I should give them the Rover and assist them in taking the car to a place where it would be destroyed and I immediately agreed and I gave him the key then he told me that I should drive the Jetta and he as well asked for some of the machines that he gave me and I just took him to the place where they were and he took two for them.

CHAIRPERSON: So he told you he wanted to take the car to a place where it would be destroyed?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: Ja.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you ask him, while, did you ask him the reason for the destruction of the car?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: Ja actually I was a little bit hesitant because when I looked at the car it was alright and as one of the people who was responsible in the PAC generally to organise some of the activities for ...[inaudible] and such things, I was concerned even in terms of even transport, transport in I mean between Port Elizabeth and here, all such things, even in his case he used to use public transport, now I was concerned that how can you destroy a car that is like this and such things and then he said no, this is the most wanted car and it is - we have been advised that he would need to destroy it and then, well, I didn't have questions so far then I just follow suit.  Not forgetting that actually then thus he as well told me that the reason why it's wanted is because it's the car that was used in the operation and that satisfied me.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you by then know what operation?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: Ja, according to the news that I heard I knew the operation that it was the Golf Club attack.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where did you hear the news Mr Ntintili?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: I heard the news not directly from the radio but I think it was in one of the shebeens there at Tembasa,
it's well covered. I got some boys there who were students in my school and they were - most of the times I was surprised by the way, because most of the times when I went there they used to hide themselves because they are in shebeens and I used to go straight to the shop and avoid to, I mean, to harass them if they are - I mean when I'm there - I mean that day I was surprised because they came straight to me and they were so excited and they told me that - I mean they asked me have you heard from the news and I asked them what?  Then they said no, the Golf Club, the settlers have been attacked in the Golf Club and then by that time I was getting into the shop and another old man who was a member of the PAC also told me that and because I was coming from an evening party the last day from Mr Gazo's place and I told them that no manne, I didn't here about this thing and they said no that is it and later on T.V. when I was watching T.V. then it came that APLA has claimed the responsibility and that was it and I was also excited like those children because I thought that it is one of those clarion calls and it is a response and it is appropriate one.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you for the benefit of the Committee tell the Committee what you mean it was an appropriate one and that you were excited and this?

LUNGISUMSI NTINTILI: Ja, first and foremost as I've already said my students were rejoicing and they said settlers had been attacked and I think by the settler, they understood what is meant by the settler because the PAC had defined what a settler was and then I knew that the people who have been enjoying the fruits of inhumanity, social degradation of the African people, people who have been clapping hands upon murderous actions by the SADF and the South African Police were now also tasting what we have been tasting for three hundred years and to me that was a start of a clear revolutionary conflict which in my mind I was convinced that it is now that even the world will start to be reasonable and to listen and to apply and to listen to the demands of our liberation movement that the release of our leaders who are in prison, the unbanning of our organisations are the priority and at the need for this country to have harmony.  It was along those lines that I felt, I thought of the history, I thought of the time when the Principal of the settlers in occupying Azania, that is Britain, didn't want to listen to the delegation in 1907 of men like Sol Plaaitjie the first Secretary General of the ANC.  When they were pleading with them that all they have done, they have done but they must not take the right of the African people to own land away from them.  When they came, having failed, which led to the Union of South Africa, when now they decided...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Sorry, you're just getting a little bit close to the mike so it's starting to distort.  Thanks.