Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-02

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Your Grace.  We will now call the next witness, Jan Mashume Sekhukhuni who is also going to speak about the same event, the same incident, the abduction from Moutse on the first of January 1986 and he is going to be assisted by Dr Fazel Randera.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

MR MALAN: Good afternoon Mr Sekhukhuni.  Can you hear me?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Yes, I can hear you.

MR MALAN: You do not have to stand, you may remain seated. If you would just take the oath.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: (Duly sworn in, states).

MR MALAN: Thank you very much.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: The Ndebele tribe beat me up.  This Ndebele man have assaulted me.  They really assaulted me.  I was in the house round about 20 to six, when I came back they appeared.  They make me take my clothes off and assaulted me.  When I went into the car I was not able to see myself and my whole body was numb.  They sticked me on the stomach and one of the intestines appeared outside.  It appeared right inside the stomach.  They assaulted me really.  A person is very hard.  It is only God who knows him.  I do not know why because I did not even do anything outside the law.
 When we arrived at Siyabuswa they put soap and they
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took a hosepipe and they poured water.  Then in that foam they put us in that foam and they came with shamboks.  We were beaten.  Yes, they really assaulted us.  Yes, they assaulted us.  Skosane tried to speak.  They said this old man what does he want here?  Then Makawe, they said this little Sotho is adamant.  Then he sticked me and I tried to defend myself.  The Ndebele people assaulted me.  Yes, they did.  They released us.  The way they assaulted me, I left my shoe, that I was even frightened to go back and collect that shoe.  I have no further words to touch there and there.  I did make a statement the way they have injured us.  I am done.

DR RANDERA: Mr Sekhukhuni, thank you very much for telling us what happened to you on that day.  Before I ask you some questions, can you hear me sir?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Yes, I can hear you well.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  How old are you Mr Sekhukhuni?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: I am 76 years old.

DR RANDERA: Mr Sekhukhuni we have heard several stories already about what happened on that day.  I would just like to hear from you what your, why you think people were attacked or taken away from Moutse to ...?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: I do not know actually.  I do not know what they were fighting for because I, myself, I was working for the Ndebele tribe.  I was in the Agriculture Department.  I was writing down all the cars going out to work.  I was working for them.  That is why Mr Skosane was also surprised why I was beaten up.  He even asked why I was there.  I was off that day and they just fetched me at home and started beating me up.

DR RANDERA: Mr Sekhukhuni, can you hear me?
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JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Yes, I can hear you well.

DR RANDERA: Right.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: I am done.

DR RANDERA: Did you lay any charges with the police about what happened to you?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: I went to the police, I laid charges.  It was the Ndebele Department of the SAP.  It was the Ndebele Government where I reported.  I told the Sergeant and I told him Skosana was there.  He asked me how do I know it was Skosana?  The Sergeant himself told me that I must be locked up.  He was a Station Commander.  They were all together.

DR RANDERA: And did anything happen after you laid the charges?  I hear what you said about the Station Commander.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: They did not receive what I was telling them.  They did not accept that.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: From 1986 up to now it means that they are not hoping to do anything about what happened because I believe the police, because they were from the Ndebele tribe, they were part of all this.  They were all doing the same thing.  It means from 1986, from January up to now why are they not doing anything?  I have given up.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Mr Sekhukhuni.  Chairperson, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Any further questions?  Russell.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Sekhukhuni.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Hello.

RUSSELL ALLY: Maybe you can tell us, before this incident this abdution on the first of January 1986, what was the relationship like between the Ndebele people and the Pedi people and whether this relationship changed after that
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event?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Actually Mr Skosana, when he talked at the hall he was on top of the table.  He said it is now after five years therefore this is our land.  The way I heard this Skosana speaking he said we have been given this land therefore if you do not accept us you must leave.  Then I learned that Moutse is now in KwaNdebele from Roedtan up that side is Lebowa.  That is how I heard him.  I know what was happening even up to the Cabinet.  Then Patoedi is the one who was very quiet about this issue.  He has sold this land.  There was no way how this can happen.  This land were given by Patoedi.  That is how I learned about the crux of this problem.  Patoedi has given them this land underground and Patoedi has died.  He was the one who was able to explain.  I am through there.

RUSSELL ALLY: And you as someone who lived in Moutse, how did you personally feel about this incorportion of Moutse into KwaNdebele?  What were your feelings?

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Skosana said it is now five years and the Sothos are ready.  We have been given this land.  Patoedi sold our land by exchaning this land with the Stofberg areas and the Roedtan and other places near Pietersburg.  They agreed together.  They were wise and we were stupid.  You know that if you are a stupid and another person be clever we will not agree.  We did not know exactly what happened.  Mojosi knows that he has been given this land.  This boy knows they have been given this land.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

RUSSELL ALLY: Back to you Chairperson.

JAN MASHUME SEKHUKHUNI: Thank you.
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CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sekhukhuni, when I look at you and I believe that when others are looking at you we are hurting that such an old man can relate these things which you were saying exactly happened to you.  We are very sorry about that.  Let me tell you that the way you talk you made us happy because you were telling us with an interesting way that even if, even when you say they assaulted you, you say, yes, they did.  You still continue talking.  We are not laughing because we are laughing at you, we are laughing together with you.  Even if they have done what they have done to you, you have dignity, you have your integrity.  The dignity which they tried to blow up, they were not able.  We praise you, we praise people like you for that today.  We are here today because there were people like you.  We are proud of you, we are proud that they ...
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