Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-15

MR HATTINGH: Were there any reports in papers, newspapers with regard to the tampering with evidence?

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: Yes, Mr Chairman, there were reports, also ...(indistinct) trial.

MR HATTINGH: Did you discuss this issue with Mr Steyn?

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: No, Mr Chairman, but he himself discussed that before the various forums previously.  The inquest, he mentioned certain problems with certain of the exhibits, he mentioned problems with his access to documentation, he mentioned that he was being blocked by senior people etc., etc.  He also complained about the fact that he's been kind of, at the time was kind of blacklisted because he was visiting Shell House to get information and things like that.  And it's a bit of a no-no in the context of the times then, Mr Chairman.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Bellingan, I would then turn to Exhibit P.  Mr Chairman, perhaps I should just make sure - ja ...  The notes that you made in preparation for the re-examination, Annexure P, would you go ahead and bring to the attention of this Committee whatever you would still like to bring to their attention at this stage.

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: I think the notes that I made last night pertaining to the skeleton application and the theory of the two annexures, I think it's been covered enough, Mr Chairman, I don't want to go into anything more there except to request that that be regarded by the Committee as not forming part at all, the discussion document, of my amnesty application.  It never was.  And my perception has been all along, Mr Chairman, that although that document could do me no harm then, surely it is I who must decide what is part of this application.  And secondly, ...(intervention)

MR HATTINGH: Mr Bellingan, may I just interrupt at this stage, you've heard that the Committee is not interested at this stage in any argument with regard to how all this evidence is to be decided upon in the end, so if you could just restrict yourself to matters that you specifically would like to bring to the attention of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Matters of a factual nature.

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: Yes, Mr Chairman.  On the next page, I've marked it
"Perjury"
At page 907, during cross-examination ...(intervention)

MR CHASKALSON: I don't want to interrupt unnecessarily, but again we would rather not be referred to extracts in the record.  If he would like to make a point again we'd simply like him to make that point.  If it's on the record, the record will speak for itself and the points can be made in argument.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think that will assist.  You can accept that there is no need for you to read out or re-canvass what is in the record.  If there is any factual issue that you would like to add or to rectify in regard to that, then you can go ahead and do that.

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  The suggestion pertaining to media reports and the information in my amnesty application.  With regard to that, I always wanted my amnesty application expedited.  It's not surprising to me at all that there were media reports and applications for amnesty concerning matters I've mentioned in my background etc., etc.  It's not surprising at all, Mr Chairman.  It would have been surprising if it wasn't like that.
	As far as the suggestion of, that I made of my, of career ruination, I want to just mention that what I was referring to is not just one's career in the South African Police, but all future prospects in terms if one is then branded a traitor etc., etc., all future prospects, not just in the South African Police.
	The fact that within the context of the organisational culture of the Security Branch, there was a fairly ruthless approach to traitors, Mr Chairman, and that it was known to me that traitors were eliminated.  So in the context then of why it is that I've lied before, during the course of the investigation and inquest and trial etc., in statements etc., etc., it was necessary until such time as the goals of the National Party had been reached.  That organisation has been put to sleep now and it's no longer necessary to lie, the goals have been reached, Mr Chairman.  And the only mechanism available to stop this cycle of action and counter action and having to lie and cover up, is the TRC.  This is the correct forum, certainly not the Courts, Mr Chairman.
	As far as complaints that I strayed or didn't answer the questions always, there was quite a lot of complaints to me about that, I feel that there is a certain psychological resistance that I've got, sometimes about operational matters, due to my training and also the depression I've been experiencing concerning these matters, Mr Chairman.  But that I believe that I've tried to answer directly, I've tried to give the Commission the picture.

MR RAUTENBACH: Mr Chairman, I have to object against this type of evidence.  The witness is now basically arguing why he should be found a credible witness, this has got nothing to do with any factual averments of any nature.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that's right.  Your counsel will, once all of the evidence has been led, will address us fully on the kind of question that you're dealing with now.  So you don't need to be concerned about that, that will be taken care of, there will be sufficient time for that.  Are there any other issues of a purely factual nature that you want to bring to our attention in order to ensure that you've made a full disclosure and to ensure that we fully understand what this matter is all about?

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do that, yes.