Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR PRINSLOO: Well what can you say?  It was a great pity to us that all commanders could not have stood up and accepted responsibility including Mr Terreblanche.  The fact that he would have said that it could have been interpreted as an order from him in his public speeches is in my opinion merely an attempt ...[intervention]

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I'm sorry for interrupting you but do you agree that what Mr Terreblanche has written here is not the truth?

MR PRINSLOO: Correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Thank you.

MR MALAN: Why would we not argue that that is also the truth, not relating to this incident but I mean generally?   Could be?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Thank you Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KRIEL

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Prinsloo, the trailer which was used during the Germiston bomb incident, was the trailer fetched from your home?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: And do you know whether Mr Terreblanche at any stage was informed that his trailer was used?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes he was.

ADV PRIOR: What was his reaction?

MR PRINSLOO: I can't say definitely.

ADV PRIOR: Well was he angry?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes he was angry.

ADV PRIOR: Did he scold those who were involved?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes he would definitely have scolded them.

ADV PRIOR: Just a final aspect.  Yesterday you gave evidence that the AWB from time to time at various groups provided advice?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: Specifically in the Cape you went to see a number of people and explained the AWB structures to them?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: Who were those people?

MR PRINSLOO: Those were members of the Coloured Corps.

ADV PRIOR: In the army?

MR PRINSLOO: No, they were civilians.  Members of the former District Six, these were coloured people, people like you and me.

ADV PRIOR: You refer to the Coloured Corps.  Was that an organisation?

MR PRINSLOO: Well that's what they called themselves.

ADV PRIOR: Does it still exist as an organisation?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: In Cape Town?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: And did you also explain to them the manners of warfare?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: And everything that went along with it?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: The logistics, the supply of weapons and so forth?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR

MS VAN DER WALT: Just one further aspect.  The message that you received that everything had to be ceased, did I understand you correctly that this took place after persons had been arrested?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you yourself, when on the day of the election were you arrested?

MR PRINSLOO: It was during the morning hours.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was that during the early morning hours?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And Leon van der Merwe, was he also arrested during the early morning hours?

MR PRINSLOO: Correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And according to the evidence which was delivered in the court case with regard to the bomb which went out to Jan Smuts, you were present when that evidence was delivered?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Can you still remember when the bomb went out?

MR PRINSLOO: No, not specifically at what time.

MS VAN DER WALT: According to the evidence it was during the early morning hours, approximately just after two o'clock.

MR PRINSLOO: I'll accept that.

MS VAN DER WALT: You also said that discussions were held with regards to a report which you gave to Ventersdorp regarding members who had been arrested in possession of explosives.  Are you referring to those who went to Benoni?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: It was also put to you whether or not you know about the agreement which would have been embodied in the constitution.  It wasn't really a thorough agreement but it would be embodied in the constitution with regard to the Volkstaat.  However, an ultimatum was also issued by the AWB, an ultimatum of six months.  You testified to that yesterday?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And it was not complied with?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

ADV GCABASHE: Just one or two questions.  If you go to page 134 of Volume 1, Mr Abie Fourie's statement and I'm looking here at paragraph 24.  Paragraph 24 page 134 and he talks about a meeting that you attended along with some of your other colleagues.  Was this meeting before the generals - the visiting generals arrived or after they had left?

MR PRINSLOO: The meeting in the cubicle?

ADV GCABASHE: Well I was hoping you could tell me, I don't know whether it was a cubicle meeting or at a different venue but the one Mr Fourie refers to here.  Was it before the visiting generals came or after they had left this meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: No that was before their arrival.  Well we were actually still busy with the meeting when some of the persons arrived there.

ADV GCABASHE: You see what ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: I beg your pardon.  Some of the generals also spoke to Mr Barnard and I assume also with Mr Myburgh but I can't say precisely.

ADV GCABASHE: You see what interests me here is the "kwesie van die gooi van die pypbomme is bespreek", he says here.  Now was that when the generals were there?

MR PRINSLOO: No.

ADV GCABASHE: Was that before the generals arrived?

MR PRINSLOO: Correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Was the decision that you then took about the pipe bombs communicated to the generals?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, always.

ADV GCABASHE: No, no, no, don't tell me about always.  The specific generals who were there on that day, I want to confine it to that.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: And that's when you got your "goedkeuring", they approved?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes it was discussed with them.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you obtain the approval or not?

MR PRINSLOO: We had the approval to continue.

ADV GCABASHE: Now that approval, was this the first time they had heard of the pipe bombs plan, the plan to set these bombs off or had they known about these issues before they came to the farm?

MR PRINSLOO: No they had known about it for quite some time before because Mr Andre Smit, the explosives General, Andre Smit, made some of the explosives available.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MS VAN DER WALT: Those are the only witnesses which I wish to present.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR MOTLAUNG: I didn't understand your question?

CHAIRPERSON: I say have you got any witnesses to call?

MR MOTLAUNG: No I don't, thank you.

MS CAMBANIS: Yes I do Sir, thank you.  If I can just ascertain the order ...[indistinct]

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just get that name again?

MS CAMBANIS: It is Freda Ngwenya.  I have prepared statements which I'll hand up as soon as I get up to the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Ngwenya, what language would you prefer to use?

SIFISO FREDA NGWENYA: Zulu.

SIFISO FREDA NGWENYA: (sworn states)

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mrs Ngwenya, is it correct that after consultation with myself and Mr ...[indistinct] we've prepared a statement which you read on - I think on Friday and attested and which I've now handed in to the Commission?

SIFISO FREDA NGWENYA: That is correct.

MS CAMBANIS: And the first three paragraphs thereof relate just to details of reference numbers for the purposes of Reparation Committee, is that correct?

SIFISO FREDA NGWENYA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Could we just receive copies of the statement we did not receive yet?

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you Mr Chair.
	Now you were present in Bree Street on the 24th April, I see there's a typing error, 1998.  Should be 1994 the day of the explosion in Bree Street, is that correct?

SIFISO FREDA NGWENYA: Yes that is correct.