Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning.  We want to start the proceedings.  For the record it is Wednesday the 17th of November 1999.  It's the continuation of the sitting of the Amnesty Committee at the Durban Christian Centre.  The Panel is constituted as would be apparent from the record.  The matter on the role this morning is the amnesty application of Albert Sbangeliso Maseko.  The amnesty reference number is AM0589/96.  Just for the record, I'm going to ask the legal representatives to place themselves on the record.  Mr Panday.

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I confirm my appearance on behalf of the amnesty applicant, Albert Sbangeliso Maseko.  My full names are S. Panday.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And then the Leader of Evidence.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.  My name is Zuko Mapoma, the Leader of Evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mapoma.  Yes, Mr Panday, do you want your client to take the oath?

MR PANDAY: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Panday.

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, is it correct that you are currently a prisoner at Ngome prison?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: And that you have been serving a sentence of 12 years since the year of 1993?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, do you know what sentence you are serving at Ngome Prison?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes.

MR PANDAY: Right.  Could you please tell the Committee what offence or offences you committed to serve these sentences?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Two cases of attempted murder.

MR PANDAY: And where did these incidents take place?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: They took place in ...(indistinct) in the Table Mountain district.

MR PANDAY: And Mr Maseko, were you a resident of that area?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, I did in the Nqalika area in Swamane.

MR PANDAY: And is it also correct that you seek amnesty for the two offences that you've been found guilty of?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko, could you explain to this Committee as to how you found yourself being convicted for the two counts of attempted murder?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: The reason I was arrested was because I was found in possession of a stolen vehicle.  When I went to court on the 5th of March 1993, I came upon Kudas Kakane and they were the people who identified me as the perpetrator in the two attempted murder charges.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko, with regards to the attempted murder that took place on the 29th of September 1992, this incident took place in the Table Mountain area and what I'd like for you to explain to the Committee is why you attempted to attack or attempt to murder the people in that area.

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: The reason for attempting to attack Thulane Mkhize was because we did not see eye to eye with regards to political organisations, as between the IFP and the ANC.  I am a member of the ANC and he was a member of the IFP.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, you mentioned that you are a member of the ANC and the attack that was launched against Thulane Mkhize, he is a member of the IFP.  Now what prompted you to attack Thulane Mkhize?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: The reason was that we had political differences.  For instance when we held meetings, they would come attack us, shoot at us and our meeting would be disrupted.  In that way attacks then started taking place between the two organisations.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko, is it correct to assume that Thulane Mkhize affected the promotion of your organisation, the ANC?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, I could put it that way.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, being an ANC member, did you hold any specific position in the ANC?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I did not hold a position but I was the Chair of the youth in the area.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko on the day that you went to attack Thulane Mkhize, did you know that there would be policemen or any other person on his premises?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, I did have knowledge that he was under police protection or guard.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko on the day of the attack, or when you went to attack, did anyone give you a particular order to attack this place?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, we usually held meetings in the Pietermaritzburg area.  On the day that I carried out the attack, I had received instruction.

MR PANDAY: Who did you receive instruction from?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: The person was Nkleku Mathe.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the surname?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Mathe.  M-A-T-H-E.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko do you know of the whereabouts of Mr Martin now?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I heard something to the effect that he had passed away around 1995 or 1996.  I'm just not certain of the year.

MR PANDAY: And Mr Maseko what position did this Mr Martin hold in the organisation?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: He was the Chairperson of the ANC in Nqalika.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, on the day of the 29th, the morning that you went to attack the residence of Thulane Mkhize, did you go there alone, or were you accompanied by others?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I was in the company of other people.

MR PANDAY: How many others?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: There were 6 of us who were armed and the rest had spears.  In total there were 11 of us.

MR PANDAY: And do you know the names of the ten of you, including yourself?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I can remember some names.

MR PANDAY: The names that you can remember, will you please give that to the Committee.

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Mbongeni Nthuli, Thembelane Mathe, Sipho Shelembe, Celo Makai, Singosele Mkhize and myself.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, do you know what has become of the people whose names you have mentioned to the Committee?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Because of my incarceration at Ngome, I have been unable to get into contact with them.  I'm not even sure whether they're still alive or not.

ADV BOSMAN: If I can just come in here.  Were you the only one to be charged and convicted of this offence, or these offences rather?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, the firearms that were used in this attack, could you firstly give the Committee a description of the weapons that were used, or what type of weapons that were used?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: There was one AK47, two 303's, one 308 and one shotgun.

MR PANDAY: And what weapon were you carrying Mr Maseko?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I carried an AK47 but we rotated the firearms amongst us.

CHAIRPERSON: These others, the 303 and 308, are those rifles?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: The big firearms.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Just for clarity, I'm not too sure if Mr Chairman wants to confirm whether there were more automatic weapons or ...

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well whatever information you have.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko the 08 and 303, were these automatic weapons?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: No, there were two automatic firearms, the AK47 and the other one.

MR PANDAY: So you had in your possession an AK47, an R1, two 303 rifles, one 308 and one shotgun, is that correct?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko, first where did you and the others obtain these weapons from?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I obtained them from the ANC in Maqongqo and I transported them to Nqalika.

MR PANDAY: And who in the ANC at Maqongqo did give you these firearms?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I got them from Baba Mahladla.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Interpreter, just spell these places names for me.

INTERPRETER: Maqongqo would be M-A-Q-O-N-G-Q-O

CHAIRPERSON: And the other one?

INTERPRETER: Nqalika, N-Q-A-L-I-K-A

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Sorry Mr Panday.