Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you Mandla.  How do you pronounce your surname?

MANDLA ENGELANI: It is Engelani.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you Mr Mandla Engelani.  We will hand over to Reverend Xundu to help you take an oath.

REV XUNDU: Mandla please stand up.

MANDLA ENGELANI: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, he has properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: We will hand over to you Reverend Xundu to lead him with questions.

REV XUNDU: We welcome you Mr Engelani.  What is your clan name Sir?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I am Dakwende.

REV XUNDU: Dakwende, please tell us briefly your story so that we can be able to know what happened to you.

MANDLA ENGELANI: I would like to start on the 1985 massacre in Duncan Village.  I was at home.  There was one man distributing pamphlets.  What I am saying now is not in my statement.  Before this man could come there was one man who came saying that there are people distributing pamphlets around.  He said that these people are dangerous people and he said that if I saw a person who was distributing pamphlets of a guerrilla warfare I must be careful, because they are dangerous.  That is what this man said.  I asked him whether I can quote his name, because he is the one who gave me this information.  He said, no, I must not quote his name, because if I did they will assassinate me, they will point me and kill me.  He then left me.
 The following day after he gave me this message this person came, the one who was distributing pamphlets.  He said to me as I was a person who use to read different books, he said to me I have these books for you to read.  I took one of them and it was written Guerrilla Warfare.  He said that as I was a wise man I am supposed to read this, because people from Westbank are wise people.  So they said that they would like me to join them.

REV XUNDU: Let us get some clarity Sir.  These people were AZAPO members?

MANDLA ENGELANI: He did not identify him as belonging to any member.

REV XUNDU: But you are a member of AZAPO, you were a member of AZAPO at the time?

MANDLA ENGELANI: At that time I got along with members of AZAPO, because we use to attend the same school.

REV XUNDU: In your statement you say that you are a member of AZAPO?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, but I had no membership card.  I had no membership card at that time.

REV XUNDU: Was there any conflict between this organisation?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Mr Chairperson, let me put it this way.  When the white man came to attack us we fought back.  As we were fighting with them, the Boers from the army, after that we, these people came saying that they do not want an AZAPO organisation.  We heard this, we heard that this was happening in Port Elizabeth, but it was happening also in Duncan Village.

REV XUNDU: This led to this day that you were attacked.

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes Sir, because these people accused me of being close to AZAPO members.

REV XUNDU: You were attacked by the Residents Committee?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: And you were brought to a People's Court.

MANDLA ENGELANI: What happened is that I got a message that I was going to be attacked and I decided to stay at home.  These people came to my home.

REV XUNDU: Did you know these people, came to your home?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I do not want to lie Sir.  I never saw them before, but I only recognised two of them, because they are my neighbours.  I asked one of my neighbour saying that you are also part of this.  He said, yes, I am part of this, because you are a member of AZAPO.  We are fighting against AZAPO and South African Municipality and we are fighting against the Government in Pretoria.  That is what this man said to me.

REV XUNDU: Did you know any AZAPO members who were also attacked in this way?

MANDLA ENGELANI: They were not attacked in a similar way Sir, but there are others who were attacked, but not in a similar  way.

REV XUNDU: They assaulted you and they left you there?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Who was with you at home?  Who witnessed this?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I was together with my sisters.

REV XUNDU: They saw this and they can give evidence?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, they were there and they can come and given evidence.

REV XUNDU: You were taken to hospital?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, but I did not go to a free hospital, because it was difficult at that time.  I came to Mdantsane in the clinic in NU9.  I spent a night to my brother in NU11A and I would go to the clinic every morning, but unfortunately, in the clinic they told me to go to the doctor and I was then taken to the hospital.

REV XUNDU: Did you lay a charge concerning this matter?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, I tried when I was released from the hospital, because my doctor said I was badly injured.  These people wanted to kill me.  The doctors advised me to go and lay a charge.  I went to the UDF offices in Paverville and they said that they heard about this incident.  They said that those who attacked me were the thugs.  So the UDF office said that they did not know whether they were AZAPO members of UDF members.  They told me to go to the police.

REV XUNDU: Did you go to the police?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, I did.

REV XUNDU: What happened to that case?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I went to the Office of Intimidation.  They were then arrested, but the case did not get anywhere.  They were not sentenced.

REV XUNDU: Sir, what do you expect the Commission to do for you?

MANDLA ENGELANI: What I would like the Commission to do for me is that I am attending Wits College.  I would like to get a bursary to further my studies.

REV XUNDU: Where are you studying?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I am studying at Wits, Witwatersrand.

REV XUNDU: Do you have a wife?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I have a girlfriend and I am staying with her.

REV XUNDU: You are only staying together?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Reverend Finca can help you to get married if you want to.

MANDLA ENGELANI: I will be very glad if he can do that.

REV XUNDU: Chairperson, let me hand over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Engelani, I am going to make a request that the two questions I am going to ask, you must listen to them very carefully.  If you did not understand the question you may ask me to repeat it and when you answer please try to be brief.  If it is possible you can just say yes or no.  Do you understand me Sir?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Was there an AZAPO organisation in Duncan Village?

MANDLA ENGELANI: Yes, it is only a few people who belonged to AZAPO in Duncan Village.

ADV SANDI: Was there a conflict between AZAPO and UDF or any other organisation?

MANDLA ENGELANI: In Duncan Village when we got out of soccer offices there was a conflict.

ADV SANDI: After the funeral, the mass funeral, of the 45 people who were assassinated, were there any other people in Duncan Village who were attacked because of belonging to AZAPO before you were attacked?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I do not know.  They would be arrested and detained, but nobody would be attacked.

ADV SANDI: After your attack was there any people, were there any people in Duncan Village who were attacked because of belonging to AZAPO?

MANDLA ENGELANI: I do not know, because I was in hospital.  I was not aware of what was happening.

ADV SANDI: The People's Court you referred to in your statement, what was it duty?

MANDLA ENGELANI: They would go house to house.

ADV SANDI: Doing what?

MANDLA ENGELANI: They were against members of the AZAPO.

ADV SANDI: What would they do to members of AZAPO as they were against AZAPO?

MANDLA ENGELANI: They would assault members of AZAPO and they would say that they are against AZAPO and South African Communist Party together with the Government in Pretoria.

ADV SANDI: I thought you said that there was no one assaulted or attacked because of belonging to AZAPO.

MANDLA ENGELANI: After my attack I use to hear that there were people who were attacked.