Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MS NGEWU: When I saw this in the newspapers they were called Guerrillas.  These people were called Guerrillas.

MS GOBODO: Do you know any reports - do you know if these people were reported in the newspapers?

MS NGEWU: Yes I saw this in the newspapers.

MS GOBODO: Now what I want us to talk about really is there are reports that were made her by somebody who was called to Tommy Weaver, who was a reporter of Cape Times.  I just want to find out if - what Tommy Weaver said is exactly what happened.  Some of the things that he says are Christopher and Zabonke while they were already on the ground, the police came and finished them off, they shot them while they were already lying down on the ground, that is how the reporter says this.  Did you hear that?

MS NGEWU: Yes I did.

MS GOBODO: Now this young man says again Christopher - Christopher in particular had 16 bullet wounds, did you hear that?

MS NGEWU: Yes I did.

MS GOBODO: There was this other one that you say you know nothing about Mlifi - Mlifi but there is something that says he was shot when his arms were up, which shows that he was already giving up and he - while he was also on the ground he was again shot.  Did you hear all that?

MS NGEWU: Yes we heard that one of them had his arms up, but he was shot still.

MS GOBODO: According to this report two of these children and I think of them was Mandla - Simon [indistinct]  the second one was Zenzile  Mjobo, they said - this report says they chased to the forest and they were shot in the forest, did you get that report?

MS NGEWU: We heard that when it was said in Court.

MS GOBODO: Did you also hear that the police who were - who were mentioned a lot where police Barnard and  Sergeant McMaster, did you hear that report?

MS NGEWU: No I can't remember that well but I know Barnard.

MS GOBODO: Can you remember Barnard?

MS NGEWU: Yes I can remember that one.

MS GOBODO: Thank you.   My questions will be directed to Ms Khonele could you please move the mike - oh! you haven't okay thank you.  Thank you mamma - can I ask, thank you for coming because I know that  it is your daughter who heard about our programme on Radio Xhosa she phoned you in [indistinct] and she told you about  this Commission, we are were happy that you came.
What's in my mind that I want to ask you is seeing that you don't know Cape Town, but you know that your son is in Cape Town, how did it come to you that - how did you feel when you heard that your son has been killed in a foreign place.

MS KHONELE: It really hurt me, because it was the time when - it was the time when I was in pain after I have been hit by this big rock I was talking about.  That time I was taken to [indistinct] hospital.  Now I was already from Cape Town with her - with his daughter, now I went to hospital, the neighbours were struggling with me now.
 When I got to [indistinct] I was given injections, I was given injections on the tips of my fingers - on  my shoulders and all over the body.  This injections were very painful.  Since - since then I've been too weak, even though I have been hit by these rocks I tried to survive.

MS GOBODO: Mamma how do you feel now, now that you are venting yourself in this Commission?

MS KHONELE: No nothing is better about this whole thing, I don't know, I cannot tell you how I feel.

MS GOBODO: Can you tell us about Zabonke's child where is she now and how old is she?

MS KHONELE: She is here in Cape Town she is now doing std 8.

INTERPRETER: I am sorry now the witness says the child is the same age as the father.

MS GOBODO: No, thank you mamma, mamma last question please.  Mamma how do you feel - how do you feel now?

MS KHONELE: No you can ask.

MS GOBODO: The last time mamma, if now you can meet these people the people who injured your son, what message would you give them?

MS KHONELE: I wouldn't be able to talk to them, it is their fault that now I am in this misery, now I wouldn't know what to do them - to do with them.  I wouldn't know, I would never be able to say what - I can never tell them what to do, I've just given up everything, I don't know.  I don't know anything.  I will be just - be grateful if I can just get anything, but I personally cannot do anything.

MS GOBODO: Mothers I would like to say this to you, all of you if you can just see these people, if these people can come in front of you, what kind of a message would you say to them?

MS NGEWU: I personally feel what the Commission can do for me is that these people should be brought to justice.  The whole nation must see these people and they must say why they shot our children, they must account for the death of our children, why would they drag my son, was he a dog?
 Were their hands better than mine, better than my son's.  Were their hands so clean that they couldn't even touch my son, why did they have to drag him?  Barnard would come in and out of my house and he would be telling me that your dog Christopher is dead.
 After I got - I was pregnant for nine months with my child, after killing them - after my child was killed they got promotions and they got more money.  They were put in high positions, but today - Barnard also died like a dog, when I said - when I heard that, I said the way my father - my son died, will be the way all these people will die too.
 He is still alive and he is living very well today, and I am poor, I am in misery.  His child is going to school, but my son's - my son's child is going to school, it's very difficult.  How is he going to eat anything, thank you.

MS GOBODO: Mamma I would like to ask a question to all of you, what is your wish - oh! I am sorry my Xhosa is not so good.  I would like to ask you how can we honour your children.  When I say we - I mean here and everybody else in here - how can we do that.