Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

MRS NDABA: I would like to give the background of all this.  When Nelson Mandela was released, the youth in our area and other areas were going to Matatiele, because we wanted to celebrate the release of Mr Mandela.  Mrs Nombuyiselo's driver had a great responsibility to transport people to that venue, where we were going to celebrate the release of Mr Mandela.
 When we came back, we heard that in Mount Fletcher, there is going to be a rally, an ANC rally the weekend after.    Our children decided to go to Mount Fletcher, because they wanted to learn how things were done and they wanted to invite people to come and address them as 18 march was the day where ANC was going to be launched in our area.
 They asked this driver to take them to Mount Fletcher and he agreed.  He took them to the rally at Mount Fletcher.  When they arrived there, ANC flags were sold and they asked him to buy them these flags because they did not have money.  They said that they would repay him after they had collected some money.
 They said that their aim for buying a flag on the 18th, when they are launching ANC, they would already have a flag.  He bought this flag for them.  When they came back from the meeting, they came with this flag.  On the 17th, as Mrs Nombuyiselo has already said, Zihle was asked who bought this flag for them and he told them who did that.
 They asked him why he didn't ask them to buy flags, this flag for them and he couldn't answer, he couldn't answer them, because they asked the driver to buy the flag because he was there at the rally.
 And they said that they were supporting ANC and if they wanted anything else, they must come to them and ask and in my case, when my house was burnt down, on the 30th.  On the 29th, it was on the 30th when mrs Nombuyiselo's house was burning down, I was going to school.  When I saw this, I went to the police station in Matatiele where I met Mr Vuyo Lupindo who was in the police station in Matatiele.
 He together with another White policeman were sent to that house to observe what was happening.  I went to Maluti and while I was still waiting there, Mrs Zokwe together with Busisiwe came and they were going to report the death of their father and I was still looking at this matter, they told me that even my house was burning down.  I was so scared, because I was thinking of my children because they were in my brother's funeral who died in Johannesburg.  I did not know what to do.
 We came back there and we were all worried, we were scared.  When I arrived there, my house was flat, it was already burnt down and there was nothing I could do.  The police were all over my yard.  When I decided to go and look at this house, there was one girl, Nombulelo Sipika, it was the first time I saw her, she pointed at me and she said that I am the one who burnt down people's houses.
 I did not know what to say because I was arriving at that time and I couldn't understand why she said that I am the one who was burning houses and people came to try and help me and this girl said, I don't know how she could be a
teacher.
 I looked at this girl because it was the first time that I saw her.   I went to the police van and we were arrested for four days in Maluti and Mrs Nombuyiselo has already explained, thank you.

MS MAYA: Let us now go to Mrs Zokwe.

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: Thank you.  First of all, my husband was a member of the ANC, we were going to church at that time and we saw the shop being burnt.
 There was one - our nephew Barnabas, he gave me the briefcase and he said that he wanted to go and find out what was going on.  And he was stabbed at that time and he fell down.  As we were still looking at that matter, ANC members came and took him.  One car came and we asked the driver to take him to the doctor.
 When we arrived at the doctor, he already died.  We went to the police to make a statement.

MS MAYA: At the time of Mr Zokwe's being stabbed down, what time was it?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: It was in the morning.

MS MAYA: Did you see who stabbed him?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: His daughter was on the road.

MS MAYA: She saw what happened?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: Yes, she saw him when he was down.  We tried to take him to the doctor, but when we arrived there, he was already dead.

MS MAYA: Is there anything else you want to add Ma'am?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: We took him to the mortuary, when I came back I have a disabled child in my home.  When I arrived home, my house was burning down and my brother tried to stop the fire, together with my daughter.
 Someone said that my children, the disabled child, must be burnt inside the house.

MS MAYA: Where did you find your children when you came back?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: They were outside, they were taken out of the house and they wanted to kill my dogs and my cattle.

MS MAYA: These people who came to burn your house, did you know who they were?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: Yes, the Barnabas boys together with my brother and - they were the Barnabas boys who burnt down my house, my brother told me.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am.  Do you have any requests to the Commission?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: My request to the Commission since I have children who are still at school, I would like the Commission to help me with the grave of my husband.

MS MAYA: Is there anything else Ma'am?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: I also have children who are still at school and I would like to be helped.

MS MAYA: Did you manage to build up your house?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: People came and they helped me in trying to stop the fire and when these people saw that people were helping to stop the fire, they left.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am, is that all you want to say?  Is that all you wanted to say Ma'am?

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: Yes, that is all, thank you.

MS MAYA: And now let us go to Magdelina Nombulelo Matshaya.
(NO INTERPRETATION RECORDED)

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: They took Zihle to my home and they said that Zihle must knock because my child will open.

MS MAYA: What is your child's name?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: It is Mvikhele Matshaya.  He is Mvikhele Matshaya.

MS MAYA: It was at night and these men took them, there was a van belonging to Zwelonke Sipika.  They beat my child but they didn't take him together with Zihle to that house.  He lost his shoes and he told me that there were weapons in the van and he managed to run away because there was a full moon that day.
 After the 17th, on the 18th we went to attend the meeting.  The cars that were there, had weapons.  There was one man who said that let them go in the hall and kill all of them.  I went to these children, I told them not to go inside the church.
 They must wait for their visitors outside the church.  After a minute these men came with their weapons, they were chasing these children.  We also ran away because we did not know what will happen to us.
 Their weapons were taken to Maluti.

MS MAYA: Did you recognize anyone Ma'am, in this group, in the group which was chasing you?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Yes, Kekeni and his group were amongst these people.

MS MAYA: What happened?

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: Our children went to the hill, to the mountain, to gather there for a meeting together with their visitors and we couldn't go to that mountain.
 On the 30th I woke up early in the morning and I was preparing for my children to go to school.  I heard that there were people outside and they were fighting amongst each other. 
 I saw Nombuyiselo's shop being burnt down, I was so
scared, I did not know what to do.  After that, I heard someone crying.  When I tried to go there, I met one man who was coming from the shop.  He told me that, don't go there, your brother was already dead.
 He was stabbed by Kekeni.

MS MAYA: Is your brother the one who was mentioned before?