Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-11-16

ADV DE JAGER: Now who were you people holding these meetings where he was the secretary?  Who was the chairman and what was the name of this meeting?

MR MASHAMBA: We'd simply just hold meetings if say that there is a person who is not living in a good way with other people then we just hold meetings and discuss about it.

ADV DE JAGER: The whole community or the youth or who?

MR MASHAMBA: The youth.

ADV DE JAGER: I see, so he was a secretary, he acted as secretary for a youth meeting?

MR MASHAMBA: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Thank you.

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further witnesses.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR VAN RENSBURG: Chairperson, I have no witnesses to call.

MS PATEL: Same here Honourable Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg, have you got any argument?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, just a short argument, Mr Chairperson.
	As the learned advocate has pointed out the 2nd February, the 11th February was a very significant day in the history of this country.  I can hardly think of any other event that symbolised freedom for the majority of the citizens of this country more than the release of Mr Mandela on the 11th February but at the same time there were a group of people running around still fighting a war that was already won.  This just doesn't make sense.  The applicant has certainly not been able to give an explanation for this strange behaviour.  The applicant has furthermore not been able to explain how the politicians would become powerless if they did succeed to kill all the witches in the country.
	It is significant that this applicant is not basing his application on the attempt or an attempt to make the area ungovernable as the previous applicants did.  The fact of the ungovernability of the country was never raised by himself.
	In the circumstances I'm of the opinion that is my instructions Mr Chairperson that the element of a political motive was again not proved and found in this instance and again I have to argue that this application has to fail on this basis.  That is all.

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson, I have no address.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg, do you accept that there was a belief in the community that members in political authority resorted to some kind of assistance with the strange powers that witches allegedly had?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes I can well concede that but I still don't think that that should be end of the argument.

CHAIRPERSON: I accept that, I just want to know what your instructions were on this belief whether your clients or the deceased was party to that or not is another matter.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes I understand that.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm just talking of a general perception in the area here.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes but I would just add that that would be the can I say supernatural powers available to any other member of the community as well?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you.  Mr Ndou, we don't need to hear you?

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this the end of this matter?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: We will reserve judgement on this as well.

MR NDOU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any point in starting a new matter now?

MS PATEL: It's already 4.15, almost 4.20 Honourable Chairperson, I believe that there's a problem with the sound technicians.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS