Amnesty Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1999-05-10

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson. 	Mr Fihla, can you for the record tell the Committee, what are you presently doing and where are you presently placed.

CHAIRPERSON: That is besides sitting in the chair in this hall giving evidence.

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: Your Honour, I am presently a member of the South African National Defence Force, working with Defence Intelligence and my rank is that of a Brigadier-General.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Fihla.  Mr Fihla, can you, for the benefit of the Committee tell the Committee, do you know the applicant who just testified a few minutes ago?

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: Yes, I know him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you just briefly tell the Committee, how do you know the applicant?

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: I think I know him from when he came outside the country.  I first met him in Harare when they went for military training, because I was already based in Harare at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: So, were you a member of APLA at the time?

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: I was already a member of APLA at that time.  And then subsequently, I met him again in Dar-es-Salaam immediately after he had come back from Lesotho after his operation he is applying amnesty for and immediately thereafter as well, he also served under me because he was appointed Regional Intelligence Officer in the Transkei and at the time I was appointed Director for APLA Intelligence.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you for the benefit of the Committee, tell the Committee whether you know anything about the operation and some of the people he mentioned that they gave him orders to come inside the country?

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: Yes, I know all the people who gave him the instructions to come inside the country because they were members of the APLA High Command and they were my colleagues and the only information I had pertaining to the operation itself, was based on the reports which I subsequently received.  When he came back from the country - at that time, I was at a military attache in Tanzania and the one who went with Lieutenant-Colonel Ndabene(?) to go and collect him from the airport when he came back.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are confirming that what the applicant says about the infiltration into the country with the weapons, was in accordance with APLA policies and instructions?

MBULELE RAYMOND FIHLA: Yes, I do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, that is the short evidence I want to relate on this aspect just to confirm that the applicant was a member of APLA and when he came inside the country, he was on the direct orders of the High Command of which Brigadier-General Fihla was a member of the High Command at the time.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.  Ms Patel, do you have any questions to ask the General?

MS PATEL: No, thank you, Honourable Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Sandi, do you have any questions?

ADV SANDI: No, thank you, Chair, no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: I have no questions, thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, General Fihla, that concludes your testimony, you may stand down.  Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, that is the evidence of the applicant, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson there is no opposition from my side.  I won't be calling any witnesses either.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mbandazayo, are you in a position to make submissions?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Chairperson, I am in a position, Chairperson, I will just be brief.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Mbandazayo, can I just for a moment, I just want to clarify something with the Chair.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson and Honourable Members of the Committee.  Chairperson, it is my submission that the applicant has met the requirement of Section 20(1) and (2) of the Act and that he was clearly acting on behalf of APLA, a publicly known political organisation and a liberation movement which was engaged in a political struggle against the state at the time.
	Chairperson, there is evidence which is undisputed, that at the time when the applicant came inside the country and was involved in this incident, he was clearly acting on the instructions of APLA and that has been confirmed by the member of the High Command.  	Chairperson, further, as one of the requirements of the Act, the applicant has made full and proper disclosure with regard to his role in this incident and also it has been established clearly that he did not act for any personal gain when he conducted the operation.
   Having said that, Chairperson, I wouldn't like to detain the Committee with any argument with regard to this matter, suffice to say that the Committee is well aware, according to the submission of the PAC with regard to its policy as is also clearly stated in the affidavit of the applicant, that the South African Defence Force and the South African Police generally were regarded as pillars of apartheid and that in order to destroy the apartheid you have to fight against those pillars and you have to destroy them.  And it was in that context that the applicant was engaged in the Lichtenburg roadblock with the police.  He was pursuing those goals and those objectives which had been set by the APLA High Command and PAC and as such Chairperson, it is therefore my humble submission to this Honourable Committee, that the applicant met all the requirements of the Act as prescribed and that he should be granted amnesty.
   Thank you Chairperson, unless the Committee wants me to address it on any other specific points.

CHAIRPERSON: No, thank you Mr Mbandazayo, it seems to be a pretty straightforward matter, this one.  A written decision will be handed down as soon as possible in this matter.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, so we will then just reserve the decision in order to reduce it to writing and a written decision will be handed down in the very near future.  That then concludes this particular hearing.  We will now take the lunch adjournment, I see it is almost lunch time in any event and we will start with the next hearing at half past one or as soon thereafter as is possible.  Thank you.  Thank you very much Mr Mbandazayo, thank you for your assistance in this matter.

MS PATEL: Would everyone please rise.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS