Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

WITNESS:   It was on the 14th June.  It was just before June 16 of the youth.  We had closed the businesses and were asleep.  Because it was about 3am we were asleep.  We heard them knocking.  They didn't even give us time to ask them if they had a search warrant, but I was also scared of talking to them, because my husband was fast asleep, but when he got up they had surrounded the house and they were pointing guns at him.  He got up.  He put on some shorts and he asked them, "What's happening?".  They said he must get up, they're looking for something.  They didn't say what is it that they were looking.  They even went inside the roof.  They were breaking the doors.  They were not opening them, they were breaking them down.  When he realised that the door was being broken, he asked please they shouldn't break the door.  He's not using this shop and he gave them some iron metal so that they opened there.  When they came out they took out rubbish out of the rubbish bins.  There was no time that we could ask for a search warrant from them.

MRS GCABASHE: Another thing, you're also relating what happened during the time - at the post-mortem.  You said the shop was burnt down.  There were also cattle that were shot down and a truck that was burnt.  I would also like to know if you reported this to the police and what did the police do about this incident, and also if there was anybody who was arrested with regard to these incidents.

WITNESS:   It was the most painful thing.  We realised that our husband had been taken away.  When this telephone call arrived at night they said the shop was being burnt down and the cattle had been shot here.  We rushed with the

MRS GCABASHE: /family to check

MRS GCABASHE: 17B/23 family to check there.  We found that the sky was lit with fire and the shop was burning down and the children were shaking, as if they were wet, because they didn't even have food.  They burnt down every food.  Mama was very shocked.  Up until today even if we reported to the police, they burnt up until they burnt the safe and there was a gun on top of the safe.  The police took away this gun and said it would be easy to trace this person and who shot and burnt the shop.  This gun was taken.  They said they were going to take it to Pretoria for investigation, to establish whose gun it was.  Up until today we haven't heard anything.  There was never any court case hearing that we attended with regard to this matter.

MRS GCABASHE: If we can come to this very painful incident of the 9th May, the day your husband was killed by these people you've already named, what time was it and were there people who were arrested with regard to this matter?

WITNESS:  On the 9th ... (pause).

MRS GCABASHE: Take your time.  Don't rush yourself.

WITNESS:   On the 9th May 1987 things were all right.  We were just together.  We were in the business premises.  There was just a short time when we were at the office.  I just felt very paralysed and then I wanted to go to the house to drink tea.  What I do remember, I did something that I wasn't used to - I was just tickling him and I made him laugh and when he laughed I went out.  As I was still sitting and I was going to drink tea, a boy came in.  He said, "They have already killed our father".  I had not even drunk my tea.  I rushed to see, although, when I rushed there, I just fainted there.  It was just a big confusion, because even the shop was just about to close.

MRS GCABASHE: /One of my

MRS GCABASHE: 17B/26 One of my sons rushed to see who were these people who were shooting.  He fell into the - he got into the glasses.  He nearly died because he rushed straight into the glasses, but fortunately he just got injured and even these glasses still have got this body shape, but that's where he really got injured.  After he had left the police were phoned by Mama Rosemary, the late Mama Rosemary.  She called them from KwaDabeka, but they didn't come back until we phoned C R Swart, and it was the C R Swart that came, but even on a Sunday, after they had taken his body on Saturday, the police arrived.  They took the bullets which they found around.  There was one bullet which didn't go inside his head and it was found down on the floor.  They did say it was a 9mm kind of a bullet.  They also explained to us that there were six people - it would appear there were six people, but that was the end of the day that the police came inside the house - our father was killed on Saturday - up until we heard this issue in 1990 that a certain MP is the one who is suspected.

MRS GCABASHE: If you can go back to the same day, what do you think was the intention?  Was there something that was taken or stolen from the shop, because this was the shop?

WITNESS:   He was at the shop.  This was the shop office.  He was going to pay the wages of his workers.  There were lots of monies there, paper money and coin money.  At the time when they shot him there was lots of money.  There was a girl who was sitting in front of this boss.  She says those who shot, there was smoke and there were some lights that came up.  There's none of those people who shot who took any money or even turned round.  They saw the money.  They just shot at him.  They didn't take

MRS GCABASHE: /anything.

MRS GCABASHE: 17B/29 anything.

MRS GCABASHE: You've also said that the police didn't arrive, but the C R Swart Police came, but when I'm listening to the statement it would seem that they came with the intention of searching.  Did they have a search warrant on that day?

WITNESS:   Those who came, at that time I wasn't in a good condition.  When I hear from other people, they were phoned - one Mama phoned them and explained to them what had happened, but what really frightened them, when they got into the office where my husband ... (end of tape)

MRS GCABASHE: 18A/0 ... which was on top of the table, from what it was said, they had searched everything.  They searched the safe, but at that time I wasn't time, but that had really worried the whole family, that they came in and touched things up and took some things.  They didn't even explain this to anybody in the family that they were going to do that.

MRS GCABASHE: Among those things that they took, are there things that they brought back?

WITNESS:   No, I do not remember that.

MRS GCABASHE: There were no things that were returned to you?

WITNESS:   No.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you get a letter, which is like a death certificate, which explained what was the cause of his death?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did get the death certificate.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you understand how it was written?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did.

MRS GCABASHE: When you spoke, you said there is an MP who you say is a KwaZulu MP.  Did his name get available to you?

WITNESS:  Yes, we do know him.

MRS GCABASHE: Is it easy for you to say out the name or not?  You are not forced to say this.

WITNESS:   Yes, I can say the

MRS GCABASHE: /name.  It is

MRS GCABASHE: 18/1 name.  It is Jamile.

MRS GCABASHE: This is an MP that you've been stating here?

WITNESS:  Yes, it is.

MRS GCABASHE: You have already said that in your life you are not safe.  Even now you don't feel safe here.  You would like the Commission to assist you with some kind of security with your family.  Did you say that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did say that.

MRS GCABASHE: Besides that, is there something else that you would like the Commission to assist you with?