Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

DJ MKHIZE: I was patrolling the area as a policeman.  I was near J2 and I heard gunshots from H2.  I was with W/O  Mhlango in the car.  Using a ZP886.  When we heard gunshots from the H2 section we proceeded there.  As we were approaching the main road near Esikhawini Training College we came towards the Gondana bus stop.  As we approached there we saw two vans parked there, and there was a crowd of people.
	There were people who were apparently arrested and we enquired about what was going on.  The unit that was patrolling around that area was headed by Sgt Bethuebjele.  And he explained to us that they had caught this group of people who had weapons, guns.
	We enquired as to who these people were and nobody seemed to know.  And these people also didn't want to say who they were.
	As we heard gunshots it appeared that these people had been trying to run away from the police, but the police pursued them and caught them.  Although I don't remember quite well how many they were; there could have been three or four.
	I grabbed one of them and asked him who they were and where they were from; they should talk quickly so that there was a tense political situation in the area.  If they don't talk, they might be in trouble.  I managed to convince this person and eventually he told me that as they were there, they were not residents but they were from Johannesburg.  And that they had come to Mrs Mbuyazi's house from Johannesburg.  And their purpose for being there - I enquired why they were carrying guns and he told me that they were with some other boy.
	I asked if they had been going to attack some place and he denied that.  I then called W/O Mhlambo to the site as well as Sgt Vyela.  And we discussed that if they were coming from Mrs Mbuyazi's house, they must be IFP members.  So we couldn't arrest them.
	Mhlambo and Vyela agreed with me, although they were not very active IFP members.  We agreed that because there were a lot of police in the area, we couldn't trust the police who were there.  We agreed with these two men, Vyela and Mhlambo that we will take the guns and the people and pretend that we are going to the police station to arrest them or to charge them.  And Sgt Vyela will take the other group of policemen and continue patrolling H2 section.
	This we did.  We proceeded to J1.  We passed Mrs Mbuyazi's house and we dropped them off at a bottle store somewhere near there and we took the guns and we went back to Mrs Mbuyazi's house and we enquired about this matter.  And she was very shocked.  We asked her if she knew these people and she said yes.
	And she told us that these people had been brought by Themba Khoza from Johannesburg.  So I asked her why she didn't inform me about this matter.  Because these people will just carry out operations and they may be attacked by us or they may indeed attack us by mistake.
	So she apologized for this and enquired where they were at the moment.  So we told her that we had released them, although we had kept their guns with us.  I fetched the guns from the car and I gave them to her.  I told her that those people were on their way.
	I think I'm confusing this a bit.  I think the guns were given to Sgt Vyela who was supposed to bring them later.  I'm not really sure.  But what I do know is that eventually the guns were given to Mrs Mbuyazi.  I'm not sure whether I brought them or Sgt Vyela brought them.
	But we discussed this matter with Mrs Mbuyazi at that time, and she confirmed that Themba Khoza had brought these people.  Because when there was an IFP rally at Esikhawini and the ANC attacked this rally, one person died.  And this person who had died was not from Natal, but from Johannesburg and he was one of the people who had been from Johannesburg.
	So these people from Johannesburg were very angry and wanted to retaliate to the ANC for killing one of their members.  That was their mission.  But we and my group didn't know about it until I spoke Mrs Mbuyazi about it.
	The reason I have mentioned this is because it was a crime.  It was illegal for us to release these people because we were defeating the ends of justice.  Because it could be that the police that we found at the scene could have arrested those people.  And the guns should have been returned to the Government, but this didn't happen.  Nobody was prosecuted and I don't remember reporting this crime to anyone.

MR WILLS: Now Mr Mkhize, I see that you're giving evidence which is different to what is in your statement in regard to this incident.  I want you to refer to para 91 where you indicate in that paragraph that you were advised by Mrs Mbuyazi that these people would be coming.  And in your evidence you've indicated that it was only after the arrest of these people that you were advised by Mrs Mbuyazi.  Can you remember which of these versions is correct and if so, just indicate.  If you can't remember, just indicate to the Committee that you can't remember.

DJ MKHIZE: I do remember.  I'll just explain one thing: Chairperson, when I make these statements it is a similar situation as to the proceedings here.  You write these statements for an entire day and days on end.  And you sit there for an entire day and you try to remember all these incidents that happened so long ago.  I think that when I wrote this I was a bit tired.  So that I said that I had been informed about these people beforehand.  I don't think this is so.  As far as I remember I think I saw them for the first time at the scene with the police who had apprehended them.  I think when I made the statement I must have been a bit tired by that time because we were doing this for the entire day and for days on end.

MR WILLS: Mr Mkhize, I just want to confirm that the weapons that were involved were two AK-47 rifles and one shotgun and another rifle that was unknown to you.  Is that correct?

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Mkhize, that concludes the evidence as far as the incidents and the unlawful activities that you were directly involved in.  I want to turn now to the collateral issues surrounding these incidents, and particularly I want you to concentrate on the equipment that you used.  And you've briefly described in para 95 about how your weapons were stored.  You've indicated that they were kept locked in a steel trunk which was kept in Romeo's house and because Romeo's house was searched it was moved to another house which got the name "the Snake Park".  I want you to tell me who supplied you with weapons, and what these weapons were to the best of your knowledge.  You've only indicated so far - right in the beginning of your evidence - that you got weapons from a certain Mr Thomas Buthelezi from Port Dunford.  But it's clear from your evidence that a lot more weapons than one AK-47 and one stainless steel shotgun were used.  Can you describe to the Committee to the best of your knowledge where you got these weapons from, and what weapons they were?