Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-11

SPANKIE LESOTHO: I am okay.  I returned home.  I told my mother what I had seen.  After that I gave up.  We were able to bury him.  Then I called all my friends.  I told them that it does not help.  They have killed Kosi.  They called Thomas mother, Mvudla.  They killed my brother.
 We went to Everton to a certain old man called Sims.  We were looking for support because we were very few and the Gadaffi group were many and they were supported by many of the people in the township because the residents were not able to identify those who were doing the right thing and 
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those who were doing the wrong thing.  Thus, what we tried, we reprimanded Sina Bobully, the one who was taking information from the Gadaffi group.  So he was reporting one side of the story and a certain lady called Philippa Hasapim from Daily Mail.  We gave him the story.  He was only reporting one side of the story.  
 I, together with Dougie and Mr Mamani, we went to the ANC headoffice.  We met Pendel Maduna and Mr Kalima.  We told them our side of the story.  They did not have the desire to follow up our story, how serious was the situation.  What they did was they told us to go back to the township and solve our own problems.  We have our own leadership.  We went to Dan Seko and Comrade Seatsi.  All the problems, they were afraid of this group.  It arrived at a point when they told us straight that they are afraid of this group. 
 We had discussions with the ANC Youth League in the township.  Even them, they said there was this man who had a dual interest between the two groups.  This group, he was favouring them, the next day he was favouring the other group.  This Gadaffi, there were members who were afraid to go out of this Gadaffi group because they said they will be killed if they resign their membership.  When we saw that our attempts to meet this group failed so that we should give them the list of the people we need and they should give us the list of people we need.  In all the meetings we were the only group which was attending.  Everybody knows exactly what happened.  We were able to see that all attempts were fruitless.  Therefore, we should meet fire with fire.  After we were able to acquire guns, we decided to draw a strategy.  We began to see which direction they 
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usually come from and when this group, when they attack, they would usually put people who were ignorant in front.  We were able to see a certain lorry called Blue Ribbon which was able to enter into the township.  One day we approached the driver of the Blue Lorry.  We hijacked the truck.  We went to the resettlement area with this Blue Ribbon truck to their base.  We alighted from the lorry.  We fought with this group, shooting each other.  They ran away and then we returned.  We fought that way with our attacks and with their attacks.  
 In 1991 the woman whom I had married them.  She was staying the last row of the resettlement area.  While she was still watching TV a certain boy entered.  Then told Tahlita with my boy whilst they were watching the drama.  That boy was relative to Tahlita.  He is from my in-laws.  Then he took this child and put him on the sofa and my child at that time was six years old.  He was about four years or years.  He took this child and put him on the sofa.  Then he took Tahlita to the resettlement area and Tahlita's younger brother ran to us and told us a certain boy took Tahlita to the resettlement area and they said they want you.  
 We went hunting for Tahlita the whole night.  Until the following day, we were not successful in our attempts.  Around quarter past six we found her body.  They poured petrol on her and they burnt her.  At that time the police were searching for me.  The police took advantage of what was happening in the township.  They had a system that if they know that there are people who are looking for them and if they were attacked, they would say they were attacked by us.  In the same way if we were attacked, people would create a story that we were attacked by Gadaffi.  Then I 
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made a decision that I am not turning back.  I went alone after hiring a car.  I went to the hostel and looked for a gun.  I got a pump-gun.  At that time I was furious because this side is the police, this side is the Gadaffi group.   Then I rode a bicycle.  The way I was foolish.  I did not know these people.  All the time I wanted to find Thomas so that he would be able to help me to identify me because I was attending a Soetho school and Thomas attending a Xhosa school.  Then we went for assistance in Everton.  Those people from Everton came to help us.  Even the business people were used by this people from Everton.  They were able to be used by the business people for their own efforts.
 In the morning we would hear stories that somebody has died or a certain house was burnt.  We wanted to go and revenge, but the problem was if we go in the night, they will come and burn our houses.  We were going during the day.  We were going inside the township to look for them and when we meet them, it will be a fight.
 Ultimately, we decided to sit down and talk.  I told Spankie that you have lost your family and Madala as well and I have lost family members as well.  Are we going somewhere with all this fighting.  So it is best for us to sit down and discuss this.  Therefore, we decided to go back to Dan's company to try and call a meeting in order to discuss this because this war had reached its peak.  Many people were killed already like Willie and Gadaffi.  
 When Willie died, to show that our intention was not to fight with them, we did take Willie on that day.  I was one of the people who took Willie when he was killed.  Some people decided that he should be killed because they kill us KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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as well, but I decided rather that he should be taken to the police.  We took Willie to Thomas' house.  He had a belt around his waist and when we tore this belt there was human hair and teeth and all these were fresh.  Willie explained to us because he was under duress.  He told us who finances them to go down to Transkei so that they can get to see some witchdoctor called Gonondo so that they should be invisible.  Therefore, we decided to call the police and they arrived.  They took Willie.  Matola was there as well.  I cannot remember the other policeman's name clearly.  They took Willie to the police station.  That is where they set up a trap that they shot him because he was going to get some guns.  We wanted to know how was he killed because we are afraid that the responsibility will be laid on us, but the policemen gave us their side of the story.  
 So the issue of making peace became more serious.  We went to Johannesburg to hold meetings to discuss this, but there was no consensus at all.  They did not want to attend meetings because they feared that we might trap them so that they may be arrested.  We did understand, but we suggested to them that they should find a neutral venue and they must come and tell us immediately about the venue and they should collect us and we will go with them.  We did try several times to hold these peace meetings, but all means failed.  
 A lady by the name of Sally Siele came who was working for the Independent Board of Enquiry for Repression.  She wanted to know the truth from both sides.  TV1 personnel Tembela Nkola came wanting to find out what was happening.  I did try to explain to them what was happening.  We did not trust the press any more because they were biased all the time.  So it would be much better if we got the coverage of 
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television.  We appeared on TV1, but unfortunately at that time we did not watch television one channel.  We were only watching our preferred black channel, the Sotho.  We knew that if we do not make peace, it means that much more people are going to die from the Gadaffi side and our side as well.  Therefore, we must try and sit down to see as to what is the root of the problem.
 I met Mrs Nomandla's son, Jomo.  I asked him, he must introduce me to one of his friends and you must sit down and see how you can resolve these friends.  He did bring his friends and we sat down and talked about this.  We held a meeting at the Zetsisi Church building.  There we reached an agreement that there will not be any further fighting.  It was on a Tuesday.  
 It was on a Saturday, there was a stokvel in our street, next door to Mr Mvudla.  Dan Sekoe, the mayor of Carletonville was there at the stokvel as well.  It was held for the congress.  Everybody was jubilant and we thought that we had achieved the goal that we were striving for, but only to find out that we were not right because on that very same night it was me with my brother and Dan Sekoe.  I went outside to relieve myself and a group of 50 people came from nowhere and they said, yes, here is Spankie.  This is our chance to kill him today.  I cannot mention their names, but they are in prison at the moment.
 They caught me by my pants and they wanted to know if I do not have a firearm.  That is when I became scared.  I tried to fight back.  The other group attacked the people who were in the tent and they destroyed everything, windows.  They were beating and assaulting people.  I asked the owner of the house to call the police, but by then they had 
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already started burning down the tent as well.  Even the gentlemen who were in that shack that they were selling the alcohol from was burnt.  He could see from on top that the shack was on fire.  Thomas went to call the police.  They were trying to forcefully open the door by using a chair, but they could not manage and therefore I managed to survive.