Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-19

MR VISSER: So the white seniors couldn't work this out for themselves it seems, that it was dangerous for you to go down to CR Swart to sleep there.  They couldn't work this out for themselves, is that what you're saying?  You had to tell them.

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: It is because I was the one who was involved in this mission, so I was the one who was aware of the situation.  So if I don't tell them about myself's safety, they wouldn't have thought about it.

MR VISSER: Yes, that's exactly what I thought you said.  You see and that wasn't put to Mr Botha, but it's not that important, so I make no more of it than to say that that scenario wasn't put to Mr Botha.

CHAIRPERSON: When it's a convenient time, Mr Visser, we can adjourn.

MR VISSER: On the spot, thank you, Chairperson.
Chairperson, we find ourselves in a little bit of a problem, because we don't know what the procedure is as far as the witnesses are concerned, and as you can well imagine, sometimes it's a bit of an embarrassment if you suddenly see a certain witness walk up to the witness box.  Could you have from Ms Thabethe, some indication as to the order of the witnesses, so that we know how to properly prepare to meet that?

CHAIRPERSON: I think that's reasonable.  Ms Thabethe, could you give an indication, or perhaps Mr Samuel, after Mr Mbane's testimony are you going to be calling any other witnesses?

MR SAMUEL: No, no other witness that I know of.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe, you're going to be calling, you indicated at the pre-hearing, certain witnesses, could you at this stage, if not give the order of all of them, but at least let's say the next two witnesses?

MS THABETHE: After Mr Mbane it will be Stephanie Miller, depending on what is in dispute, we might call some witnesses with regard to her evidence, if there's nothing in dispute, then we won't call those people.  For example, if it's accepted that the mortuary report was there, then we don't need to call people from the mortuary.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh you mean the evidence relating to the actual exhumation and the mortuary report registers ...(intervention)

MS THABETHE: Yes, that whole chain, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: But I have them on standby.  After that it will be Dr Naidoo.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, okay I think that will ...(intervention)

MS THABETHE: And thereafter, Peter Vanezis, through the video construction.  Sorry Mr Chair, I think after Stephanie Miller, we might have to - I intend calling Mrs Dludla with regard ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Dludla, that is the neighbour.

MS THABETHE: The neighbour, yes.  And then Dr Naidoo and then Peter Vanezis.

CHAIRPERSON: So definitely the next one will be Stephanie Miller, followed probably by Mrs Dludla and then Dr Naidoo, but there might be some shorter evidence in-between, but you'll give notice if that arises, yes.

MS THABETHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Visser, anything else?

MR VISSER: Just one last aspect, Chairperson, you know how I've been going on about registers, we haven't any report back as to what happened yesterday and I just want to know whether we're going to be confronted here with registers, etcetera, etcetera.

CHAIRPERSON: I haven't received any report either.  Do you know anything about the registers that were going to be looked for yesterday, Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: I would suggest we discuss it in chambers, Mr Chair, because I was under the impression that Deborah gave you a report back.

CHAIRPERSON: No we haven't received a report, because as Mr Visser said, and I'm sure it applies to all the legal representatives, as soon as they are available, if they are available, they should be given access to it and not to be confronted with it during the course of testimony.

MS THABETHE: Mr Fanie Muller has just indicated that they wouldn't allow them to come with the registers obviously, but they are there.  If we subpoena them to come they can be made available.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think then we can subpoena them to bring the registers if they're not prepared to bring them voluntarily.

MS THABETHE: Of course they want us to indicate then when they should come.

CHAIRPERSON: Well as soon as possible, because I think the thing is not just for them to use it in giving evidence, we want to let the people take a look at them and study them before they give evidence.  So I think we can subpoena them to bring them as soon as possible.

MS THABETHE: Very well, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thank you, that then brings us to the conclusion of today's proceedings and would it be convenient to start at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning?
	We'll adjourn until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning, when we'll resume with the evidence of Mr Mbane.  Thank you, we'll adjourn until then.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS