Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-09

WITNESS:  I am Rosy Ramncwana, my home is at Gaga, Luzuko is my grandchild.  He left home in the morning the previous day when he went to a meeting at school.  When he came back he told me that the following day they are going to a march at Bisho.  Luzuko left in the morning to go to Bisho.  It got late and we went to bed.  Luzuko had not come home yet.  When I got up in the morning on Tuesday Luzuko was nowhere to be found.  I went to the ANC members to ask where my grandchild is because he did not come home.  The other children that had gone with had gone back home.  They said they would go and look for him.  The ANC members went to look for him.  At about 3 o'clock they came back saying they found Luzuko at Mdantsane at a mortuary.  Luzuko was taken to West Bank and they operated on him.  They found that - when the ANC members came back I asked them what is going to happen.  They said that if it is all right he is going to be buried with the other ANC members.  I said because of the situation at home, I request that he be buried at home.  They said they grant my request that Luzuko must come and be buried at home.  The corpse was taken home and he was buried at home by ANC members.  Luzuko is one of three children of my daughter.  My daughter went and got married and left these three children with me.  Luzuko was in standard nine.  I was looking up to him that one day he will be able to support me and those that [indistinct] but now it is impossible for Luzuko to help anyone. I live on pension.  I cannot support these children.  The one was born in 1980 and the other in 1985.  They are still at school but in that difficulty.

MS MAYA:  Is there any type of compensation that you got maybe from the ANC or from attorneys?

WITNESS:  In 1993 I went to a lawyer, Mr Thabata. I was not welcome. I went back again in June this year and I found two ladies.  The lawyer was not there.  These women said you are too late, the Gqozo era is over, you are just walking around aimlessly.  I got out of there weeping.  I have no help, I did not receive any help.  I went to Mdantsane, I've forgotten who I found there but her surname was Martha.  She said that she was at the offices in Mdantsane.  She said to me your name is not here but the other people got special pensions but I know that your name was not there.  I told them that I did not get a penny.

MS MAYA:  I am convinced that you have a request.

WITNESS: My request is that the Commission may help me with my children.  After that if the Commission can help me construct a tombstone for Luzuko.  I went to the graveyard recently and I found Luzuko's grave and there was a stampede of cows over it.  There is nothing I can do.

MS MAYA:  Is this all the evidence you would like to give the Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes ma'am.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much Ms Ramncwana.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anyone who would like to ask questions?  Thank you ma'am.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 1 - 9 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 9

UNKNOWN: MKHANGELI ELLIOT MBULA  [father]
MKHANGELI ELLIOT MBULA   Duly sworn states

UNKNOWN: Mr Mbula good afternoon, can you hear me?

WITNESS: [Indistinct].

UNKNOWN:  Thank you.  You are here to tell us about your son Vukani Mbula who was a student at Fort Cox Agricultural College and who died during that Bisho massacre.  Am I correct?

WITNESS:   [Indistinct].

UNKNOWN:  The events surrounding the massacre have been described by several people.  I would like to ask you to talk about the effect that the death of your son had on you and your family and then talk about what you would like the Commission to do.

WITNESS:  I was really disturbed by this.  The mother was disturbed too and she is not enjoying good health.  I was also hurt because he was a person who was helping me a lot though he was doing private studies, but after his death there was a great difference because we live together with my mother.  I am not going to say much.  I would like to say the Commission could see what it can do when it is making compensation towards the people otherwise I don't have much to say.  I don't have anything to say much about him.

UNKNOWN:  Mr Mbula how old was your son when he died?

WITNESS: He was born in 1969.

UNKNOWN:  And you say that his death greatly affected your wife's health.  Could you tell us just a little bit about it and also tell us if she is receiving any medical aid or medical care.

WITNESS:  No she is not getting any medical treatment.  She did get it once when I would send her to doctors here in town but she used to complain about her nerves whenever she would think about the death of the son.

UNKNOWN:  Mr Mbula, you also went to Mr Smith Thabata an attorney in 1995 to institute civil proceedings.  When was the last time you talked to the lawyers?

WITNESS:  I last talked to the lawyers who is Mr Smith, last month because he had called me to give another statement.  That was the only thing he had asked me for.

UNKNOWN:  Did he tell you what was causing the hold up in the case?

WITNESS:  I haven't been to see him for the second time.  Even on that particular day I did not ask him anything.  I just concentrated on the fact that he was taking this second statement because even prior to that he stated that he did not know whether the Defence Force was going to accept this case because it was now another year.  Where we had made enquiries, we were told that this matter was referred to the government so he told me that the Defence Force might accept the case or perhaps he could reject it.

UNKNOWN:  In your statement you say that you would like to be granted reparations and damages by the Commission.  Can you tell us a little bit about that.

WITNESS:  I cannot specifically point out what I want but if the Commission could give me some compensation I would gladly accept that.

UNKNOWN:  Mr Mbula is there anything else you would like to say?

WITNESS:  I did point it out that I was going to be brief.  I think I have got nothing more to say.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much sir.  Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: [Indistinct]

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 1 - 9 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 10

UNKNOWN: BIZIWE ELIZABETH LALI [mother]

BONGANI FINCA: We are now going to call upon Biziwe Elizabeth Lali.  Your Grace we will ask Denzil Potgieter to lead the questions on behalf of the Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.
BIZIWE ELIZABETH LALI   Duly sworn states

ADV POTGIETER: Good afternoon Ms Lali.  Can you hear the translation?

WITNESS:  I greet you, yes I can hear.

ADV POTGIETER:  Thank you, welcome here.  You are from Alice, is that correct?

WITNESS:  Yes that's true, I'm from Alice.

ADV POTGIETER:  And your evidence concerns your son, your late son, Zwelitsha who was killed on the 7th September.  He was shot in the Bisho march that we have heard about, is that correct?

WITNESS:  Yes it's like that.

ADV POTGIETER:  Thank you. What was your son doing, was he working or was he at school?

WITNESS:  He was not at school, he was just starting to work at a hotel in Houtberg.

ADV POTGIETER:  And how old was he when he got shot and killed, Ms Lali?

WITNESS:  He was 23.

ADV POTGIETER:  Did he have any children?

WITNESS:  He did not have any children.

ADV POTGIETER:  And was he working for you, was he working for the home?

WITNESS:  Yes he was working for me.

ADV POTGIETER:  Now would you like to tell us what you know about the incident and about his death?

WITNESS:  When Zwelitsha died after the march he did not come back the first day.  We went to look for him the second day.  He was found at Mapongo in East London, he was beaten up especially on the forehead.

ADV POTGIETER:  And is it correct that he was actually shot as well, he died as a result of being shot?

WITNESS:  Yes he was shot, it's true.