Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-26

CHAIRPERSON: What happened when he left?
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ISABELLA MBELE: After he had left the police came to tell me that he was arrested in 1976, sorry, 1977.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you also say that he was jailed in Modderbee prison.  How long was he there?  Mamma, in your statement you say that Andrew was jailed in Modderbee prison and spent something like 22 months there. Is that right?

ISABELLA MBELE: (Indistinct - microphone switched off).

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma, can you hear me?  There appears to be a problem with the translation services.  Mamma, the question that I asked was, in your statement you say that ni 1977 Andrew tried t leave the country and you said that that is right.  You then say that the police came to tell you that they arrested him and I then asked the question, in your statement you say that he was taken to Modderbee prison and he was kept there for 22 months. Is that right?

ISABELLA MBELE: It is not true.

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma, I am going to ask Hlengiwe to ask you that questions directly, because it appears that there is a problem with the translation.

MS MKHIZE: We will go back to Zulu - are you tuned into the Zulu channel?

INTERPRETER: The speaker cannot hear.

MS MKHIZE: Can you hear, Mamma?  She wants you to explain about the time when your son was arrested and said to Modderbee, did you ever pay him a visit? How long was he kept at Modderbee?

ISABELLA MBELE: Yes, I did visit because they did take him to Modderbee, they did inform me, and I went to visit him, until he was released in 1979. There at Modderbee.

MS MKHIZE: As you explained to the Commissioner Yasmin
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Sooka about the police who came home to talk to you.  Can you remember, will you recall?

ISABELLA MBELE: Yes, I remember now, as you are asking the question.  Two people came.  Those people came and said they had to get a statement. I asked them who are you, and they said they are sergeants from Brixton.  They got the statement, I gave them the statement. They asked me for his photo, his picture, his picture which they took.  After that the boers came driving a Kombi. I asked the police what's your name, he said I am Landman from Brixton.  After that they disappeared, they left quite a time, up until the time when I went to Brixton to ask.  They told me that they did not know any police by the name of Landman.  I left the whole thing like that, I never went back to ask again.

MS MKHIZE: When you say Landman is the name, what was Landman's name? Somewhere Charlie Landman, who is Charlie Landman?

ISABELLA MBELE: He said he is Landman, that is his name.

MS MKHIZE: At the time when you say you went to see him, visit him at Modderbee, arrested at Modderbee, did he say perhaps why he was arrested?

ISABELLA MBELE: No, he didn't say.

MS MKHIZE: Did the attorney help you to explain to you when you were just talking to the attorney, did the attorney explain to you why he was arrested?

ISABELLA MBELE: You mean the lawyer? Yes, the lawyer ended up saying he was never found, even the lawyer did try to look for him and said no, we cannot find him, but if there is anything that I will hear, but I never heard anything. So I even now I have heard nothing.

MS MKHIZE: When people went to Shell House, going for their SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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matters, did you ever go to Shell House?

ISABELLA MBELE: I did go to Shell House, to find out and ask. They went through their records, if they could see whether he escaped from the country.  They said to me no, his name was not appearing anywhere.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mamma. I will ask Hlengiwe to thank you for coming to give your evidence.

MS MKHIZE: Mamma, we thank you very much for your coming. You are one of those mothers who went through difficult times, sleeping, not knowing where their children were; whether what happened to their children, whether they were dead. It is difficult.  In your case you have such a wound, but we will try all we can that you finally get the truth about your son and we will try and help you to do the appropriate thing.  Thank you, Mamma.
APPLAUSE

CHAIRPERSON: We will now break for tea for 15 minutes and resume at quarter past 11.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS
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