Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WILSON J: As I remember it you had in fact prepared a list of names, hadn't you, which the Riot Unit then tried to find?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct, Sir.  That is quite correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, at that stage were the buildings or the houses that were going to be attacked that night, were they identified at that stage?

WITNESS:   No, Sir, because the attack by the Inkatha people - before I got to the area the attack was launched already by the Inkatha - can

CHAIRPERSON: /I say

CHAIRPERSON: I say hierarchy within the area and their supporters.  That attack had already taken place.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, then the events that led to the assassination of these people, or the murder of these people in that house, when did that commence?  When did you get there?

WITNESS:   Sir, that was in the early hours of the morning.  It must have been around about 1 o'clock in the morning.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of you went there?

WITNESS:   The attack was conducted by four people, by the four special constables.

CHAIRPERSON: And were you not present?

WITNESS:   No, Sir, I was not present.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand you just dropped them off in an unmarked car.  Is that what happened?

WITNESS:   No, Sir.  No, I dropped them off with a police van.

CHAIRPERSON: A police van?

WITNESS:   At the shop, which is some distance away from the particular house.

CHAIRPERSON: And you knew where they were going to?

WITNESS:   I am sorry, Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: You knew where they were going to go to?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Yes, I knew that they were going to take out the Comrades in the area.

CHAIRPERSON: Now then, when you said that the wrong house was attacked, what does that mean?  Does that mean that the wrong house was identified, or that there was a mistake in the attack although the house ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, there was another house between the shop and where this particular house is.  It's difficult for me to explain to you, but it lies between where they came from and where the house is that was attacked.  There was a house with an underground cellar in it.  It was - the information was - we didn't have information as such that

CHAIRPERSON: /it was

CHAIRPERSON: it was an underground cellar.  The information was that the Comrades would disappear.  They would disappear in the area.  We suspected that it would be something to that - a similar structure, an underground cellar or something, a very similar structure.  This particular one was covered with a carpet and had chairs on top of it.  Let's say the entrance into this cellar had a carpet and had chairs on it.  It was inside the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, the people that carried out the attack, were they all members of the police force?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, they were special constables.  Yes, Sir, one of them was a sergeant and the other three were constables.

CHAIRPERSON: And who had supplied them with arms?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, they had their shotguns with them and their normal ammunition.

CHAIRPERSON: And what were you to do whilst they were attacking this place?

WITNESS:   I had another two people with me that didn't know of this operation.  The idea was to drop them off and to leave them in the area, and for me to get out and to pull out of the area.

CHAIRPERSON: So is the position that after you dropped them you left the area?

WITNESS:   No, what happened is that the attack took place before I could get out.  They returned to the vehicle where we were before I could leave.

CHAIRPERSON: And up to that stage did you know how many people they were going to take out?

WITNESS:   No, I never ever - there's something I never really thought about.  It was - I never ever expected that 11 people would be killed.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know the identity of the people that they were going to take out?

WITNESS:   Yes, I - the target, the people that they targeted, the instructions that I gave

CHAIRPERSON: /them, was

CHAIRPERSON: them, was that they must take out the Comrades.  That would be UDF Comrades.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Comrades, but the individuals, the names, was that known to you?

WITNESS:   No.  No, the names weren't available.

CHAIRPERSON: Then what happened after they'd returned to the vehicle?

WITNESS:   After they got back to the vehicle we returned with two of them and we dropped them off, but before - when they got out the vehicle was the time that I said to them that they must go back and burn the house of Mbongwe's down, the house that was an issue - or that was mentioned earlier on about the civil claim.

CHAIRPERSON: The house that had to be burned?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's one of the houses that wasn't burnt that night.

CHAIRPERSON: And the house in which the people were who had been killed, that house was also burnt?

WITNESS:   No, it was not burnt.  No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: It wasn't burnt?

WITNESS:   No, Sir.

WILSON J: Perhaps I could intervene at this stage, and I'm relying on my memory, I can't find the passage in the judgment, but it may assist my learned friend.  My recollection, Mr Mitchell, was that the evidence was that there was this wake taking place in the house that night, that there were lamps or candles burning, and that that led to the confusion.  Because what was contemplated was that after the raid that morning the Comrades will gather in some house where they could be taken out, and unfortunately, very tragically, there were lights in the other house which caused the wrong identification.  That was evidence was led.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.  Sorry, yes, Sir, that was where the confusion came in, that is correct.

WILSON J: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Was that evidence given by one of the four attackers?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I think it was the evidence that was given by everybody - I mean of the attackers.  Or it was the evidence that came out, yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you required to submit a report to your superiors on what had happened?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.  What happened the next morning when we returned, and I saw that so many innocent people had been killed, and I saw the disaster that it was, Major Terblanche arrived at the scene together with Captain van - well, Lieutenant van den Heever.  I then told Major Terblanche about it, about what happened.  I told him 90% of the story, but then we were interrupted by some other police members.  So he then said to myself and to van den Heever we must go and speak to the special sergeant, and then report back to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you required to submit a written report of what had happened?

WITNESS:   Sir, what happened is I submitted a preliminary report, but I never mentioned any of this in it because I had already mentioned it to Major Terblanche.  Major Terblanche then said that the special constables must be pulled out of the area that same day, so within a couple of - an hour or so they were pulled out of the area.

WILSON J: To add something to that, you made several statements.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I made - I did eventually end up making several statements, but none of them were worth anything.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: How were the special constables to identify the correct house?

WITNESS:   Prior to going to the area there was a meeting between myself, the special

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: /sergeant

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: sergeant and a member that was with him and Mr Gabela, and the area was discussed where this was going to take place, and mention was made of the coming together of the Comrades in a house, and it was explained to them by Mr Gabela where this house is.   Because I am not fluent in Zulu unfortunately, and I took it that - well, the explanation given there at the scene that they knew where it was.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: No, but in terms of your personal understanding of the operation how would this house be identified?