Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1997-08-13

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: I notice by the way, with regard to (a), I notice among the documents here, a manifesto which apparent - a manifesto of the OB which takes about a good five pages.  I don't know whether - what impact that would make on your argument, that it's not a publicly known organisation.  It has issued a manifesto which has been quoted extensively in - fully almost fully in the documents.  I don't know what an more an organisation should do if it has issued a manifesto, a public manifesto.

MR PURSHOTAM: It's my submission that - Mr Chairman, I haven't had access to the application which was made to this Committee, nor have I had an opportunity to have a look at the manifesto.  This is the first time that it comes to me that there is a manifesto in the bundle.  No evidence was led as regards to such a manifesto but I will nevertheless attempt to answer you.
	It's my submission that the mere issue of a manifesto, doesn't suddenly bring a publicly known political organisation in being because one - the Act talks about publicly known political organisations ...[intervention]

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Sorry, I must not mislead you.  It's the manifesto of the Boerestad Party, maybe it's not the same thing.  I think I'm wrong.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PURSHOTAM: Thank you Mr Chairman.  The last Sub-Section on which I would like to address the Committee, is Sub-Section 21(c), which states that
"The applicant has made a full disclosure of all the relevant facts"
Mr Botha told the Committee in so many words, that he would have to continue with the struggle when - if, his amnesty application is granted.  And presumably he's still a member of OB.  The question is whether this Committee wants to let loose on the public, a person who hasn't yet distanced himself from the aims and objectives of the so-called OB, or distance himself from the aims and objectives of right-wing politics.
	We don't even know about the OB, about it's command structure, about it's constitution, we've mentioned that before.  And it's important for this Committee to know how the OB works, how the AWB works before one can talk about full disclosure because one is proposing an extremely drastic act here of releasing individuals who were convicted in the Supreme Court of what the Judge termed,  "a feelingless deed against innocent people.  This was carried out and at best, can only lead to further violence or counter-attacks"  And that's at page 115 of the Judgment.

CHAIRPERSON: Which one?

MR PURSHOTAM: That's the Judgment of - in the matter of Botha and Smuts.  I think it must be Judge Galgut.  Judge Hugo, in his Judgment - and this is in preparation to passing the death penalty on the applicants - he mentioned that "in this climate a deed such as this, is one which awakens the strongest possible disapproval of the public because it intensely increases tension and racial hatred".
	Mr Botha and Mr Smuts had an opportunity yesterday before this Committee, to tell us what they intend doing once they're released, if this Committee is disposed to grant their applications.  They intend carrying on with the struggle.  So we're talking about more innocent Black people being killed.
	I would like to close by making one more submission, two more actually, that from all the evidence before this Committee, it's clear that the applicants were on a frolic on their own with no discernible public - sorry - political  objective.  Something that has been mentioned repeatedly before this Committee, is the question of remorse and repentance.  We have a banner here which says: "Truth - The Road to Reconciliation".  That's the banner which hangs behind this Committee.  
	This morning while I was leading the victims and their dependents, I asked of each and every one of them, have you been approached by any one of the applicants in this hall today or yesterday, to ask forgiveness.  I belaboured the point, it was mentioned  eight times  but up to now  none of the applicants have cared to approach 
any of the victims or their families.  They're sitting right next to each other but up to now, they haven't had the courtesy and the repentance and the remorse to approach them, shake their hands and say, I'm sorry.  So what kind of remorse are kind of remorse are we talking about?  ...[no sound]  mentioned repeatedly to the applicants whether they were remorseful and repentant.  And therefore, we must deal with that question and deal with the credibility of the applicants in this regard.  That is all I have to say.  If there's any further questions from members of the Committee, I'll be pleased to answer them.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink, is there anything you wish to say?