Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

DR MAGWAZA: We hear, Mama, it's very painful, but if you could help us, give us a full story of Lucky I will say briefly that Lucky was hanged on the 7th September 1986.  He was killed because he had been accused of killing Ben Langa.

WITNESS:   We just heard that after their sentencing.  We didn't know about that.

DR MAGWAZA: What I would request you, Mama, it was a most painful thing for you.  Was there a way that you could go and speak to the Langa people?

WITNESS:   We were very scared, Mama, because I didn't even know who these people

DR MAGWAZA: /were.  I

DR MAGWAZA: 19B/21 were.  I only heard it from rumours that he'd killed Ben Langa in Pietermaritzburg, in Georgetown.  That was the only time I got clear about what was happening.  I still don't understand.

DR MAGWAZA: Would you be prepared now to see the Langa family?

WITNESS:   Yes, yes, I would like to see them, but I didn't feel free to see them at that stage, because this was a most painful thing.  We were all crying, because these people are the neighbours of my uncle.  Even all of us were Christians, but I was very concerned that my child got involved in this matter.

DR MAGWAZA: The most painful, Mama, is you are saying up until today you are still suffering.  There are people who are harassing you.  Who are these people?

WITNESS:   During this time, it wasn't even the Langa family, it was just because we were associated with UDF, these people used to harass us.  I really don't know all these things.  These things just suddenly happened upon me.

DR MAGWAZA: We hear your situation.  As the Commission is here we are trying to look at what happened, but all of us we would like to understand what had happened.  When we've been hearing cases, different cases we've been understanding because understanding would bring about conciliation.  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   I would also take it from today to try and go to the Langa people, even if it doesn't mean anything.  I'm not sitting with peace.  I've got this conscience in me.  They would say what had happened.

DR MAGWAZA: If I could just give you an answer.  If it has come to a time when you feel you want to contact this Langa family, but if it is difficult for you to contact the

DR MAGWAZA: /family of the

DR MAGWAZA: 19B/24 family of the Langa you can come to the Commission, so that it can mediate between you and the Langa family, to make it easy for you to contact the Langa family.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there other questions?  Mama, we are with you.  We feel with you.  We thank you very much - your wish that you would like to meet with the Langa family.  Thank you so much.  May God help you - assist you and give you strength.  We are also going to try with all our means at our disposal to help you.  Thank you very much, Mama.
/DR BORAINE
19B/26

DR BORAINE: Chairperson, the next witness is Gregory Tuntulwana and I'll ask him to come forward, please.  We are waiting for the earphones to be placed properly, so that the witness can hear and we can follow the telling of the story.  Mr Tuntulwana, you are Gregory?  Thank you, you can hear my voice clearly?  Good.  Thank you so much for coming - welcome to the work of the Commission.  You know we are here to listen to you, to try to understand something of your distress and the suffering that you and so many others have been going through, so that we can get a better picture of what has been taking place in this country, and try to help the situation.  In a moment I'm going to ask my colleague, Dr Mgojo, to help you as you tell your story about your son, who was killed.  It's a hard story, but we want you to tell it.  Before you do, would you please stand to take the oath.

GREGORY TUNTULWANA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

GREGORY TUNTULWANA: 20A/0 ...

WITNESS:   Mkoliswe Tuntulwana is my younger brother.  He is the last one at home.

DR BORAINE: We are very glad that you have your brother with you and we want to welcome him.  We are glad to see him.  I will hand over now to Dr Mgojo.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  You can remove your earphones now.  Mr Tuntulwana, just shortly, we are very happy to be having people from Kokstad appearing before the Commission, because we would like to go to all places.  Kokstad is in KwaZulu/Natal and we are happy to see people from that area.  I am going to ask a question because the statement is - can you give us a brief story about your family, just briefly?

WITNESS:   I have a wife and three children.  When this thing happened I have just been from

KHOZA MGOJO: /my place of

KHOZA MGOJO: 20A/1 my place of birth to my own house now.  I am working.  Unfortunately, others coming behind me are not working.  They are still very young.  My children are at school and the last-born is 3 years old.

KHOZA MGOJO: I will quickly lead you with questions so that we can proceed.  You are here to speak about your son, who was killed by the police in 1990.  Where were the police from?

WITNESS:   These police were from Pietermaritzburg.  They were called the unrest unit.  These are the police who shot and killed my son.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you sure they were from Pietermaritzburg?

WITNESS:  Yes, I am certain, because there were police at Kokstad, but these ones were driving two cars that were different from ours.  It seems as if they were going to support the Kokstad Police.  They were driving in those cars - different cars from the ones we used to see.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mr Tuntulwana, you said that they were coming to support the police at Kokstad.  What was happening at Kokstad?

WITNESS:   Unfortunately, I wanted the Commission to help me.  There's never been a thing indicating or implicating the police.  I think there were May Day celebrations because it was in May.  Maybe they didn't like anything to do about May and they arrived.  I think they had been called to be around at Kokstad.  To do what, I don't know.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said your son was shot during that time.  How old was he?

WITNESS:   He was more or less 15.  He was born in August 1975 and he died in May 1990.  It was only four months to reach 15.

KHOZA MGOJO: Have you seen your son carrying a gun maybe?

WITNESS:  No, I've never seen him carrying a gun, because I didn't

KHOZA MGOJO: /carry a gun

KHOZA MGOJO: 20A/4 carry a gun myself.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement you said there was an inquest to investigate, and it is said here the police killed your son because they were protecting themselves.

WITNESS:   Can you please explain?  Can a 15-year old boy be killed for self-defence.

KHOZA MGOJO: This boy was shot by the police because the police were defending themselves.  Did you ask the police why did they kill a 15-year old boy and accuse him of shooting the police?

WITNESS:   In that inquest Tuntulwana's surname was not reflected there.  We were not there as a family from the beginning to the end.  It was supposed to take place on the 12th.  I was working at a town outside Kokstad.  On the 12th, when I arrived, they said the inquest was the previous day, on the 11th.  Even the lawyer who was supposed to be representing the family never came to us.  This really disturbed me a lot.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know the lawyer - do you know his name?

WITNESS:  Fortunately, I received the documents.  Yes, I know his name.  He is Mr Greenan (?).  He was at Kokstad.  There's a firm of attorneys called Ellington (?) and Walker.  He knows me.  He knows where I stay.  He was supposed to come to my place or call me to come and discuss this case with him.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you ask him why he continued with the case without your presence?