Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

CHAIRPERSON: We know that and I think you told us that you wanted to leave with Buthelezi but the person you were with said or at least advised against going?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: At what time did you leave to go to the meeting?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Which meeting sir?

CHAIRPERSON: Of the community where the...[inaudible]

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I did not go Chairperson because Mr Buthelezi was calling me to Block F where Bulelwa's corpse was.

CHAIRPERSON: Buthelezi was calling you to Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct he was calling me to Block
F.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there people who had gathered at Block F?  Do you know, if you don't know say so?

CHAIRPERSON: I see you're shaking your head, either say no or yes.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Do you mean - are you asking that they met at Block F or Block C?

CHAIRPERSON: Buthelezi was calling you to Block F.  You didn't go there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct sir, I did not go to Block F.

CHAIRPERSON: Instead you went to Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Mr Buthelezi called me from Block C where I was staying.  I did not go with him to Block F.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was this gathering of the Youth League and the community at which the community said enough is enough?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was in Block C sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How did that gathering come about?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained Chairperson, Buthelezi's scream and the blowing of the whistle, I think those are the two means for those people to meet.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the whistle blown from Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I'm not sure from which direction of the community the blowing of the whistle came from.

CHAIRPERSON: We were told that if there is an attack or an incident which required the community, a whistle would be blown presumably from the spot where the community was required to come to, is that correct?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: The body of Bulelwa was found in Block F is that right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: So the whistle in connection with her death would then have come from there, from Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: May you repeat your question sir?

CHAIRPERSON: The whistle relating to the death of Bulelwa would have come from Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anything happen in Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: What time Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Just before the people gathered there.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Nothing happened on that day but I think people were attracted by Buthelezi's scream.

CHAIRPERSON: Buthelezi we do know do we not that he was at Block F where Bulelwa's body was?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Then why did people go to Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained Chairperson that maybe they were attracted by screaming, Mr Buthelezi, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: At Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained, maybe I was not understood that Mr Buthelezi came from Block F, he went to Block C to call me so that I should go to Block F.

CHAIRPERSON: What you're saying is that because of Buthelezi's scream when he was at Block C, the community might well have been attracted by that scream to come to Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: They would have disregarded the whistle which came from Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: So the whistle to them would have been meaningless?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I've explained that they came to where they heard the scream.

CHAIRPERSON: Who had gathered at Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained Chairperson, that residents gathered there because with my observation they came from Block B and Block E and Block C.

CHAIRPERSON: As I recall it you said Blocks A, B and C.  Is that right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Bulelwa resided in Block F did she not?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any reason why members of the Block F community were not present there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: May you try to put rightly, do you mean at the spot where Bulelwa's corpse was or at the meeting?

CHAIRPERSON: ..[inaudible]

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't know the reason why they were not present sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Now did anyone address the meeting at Block C, the gathering at Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The way it was Chairperson, is the residents gathered there because of Buthelezi's scream.  They asked me of saying "why do we hear the scream?"  That is why I addressed them.

CHAIRPERSON: And then?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I tried to calm down Mr Buthelezi first so that we'll be able to hear directly from him about the screaming.  That is when Mr Buthelezi, after he's been calmed down, he said Bulelwa has been killed.

CHAIRPERSON: The community - that Buthelezi had come to call you and that he had returned to Block F where Bulelwa's body was?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Mr Buthelezi left whilst residents were still gathered there from Block C back to Block F.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Buthelezi present when the community gathered at Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained that the - for some few minutes whilst he was there - yes the community has already gathered.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] was he still there?  When you gave the report to the community at Block C was Buthelezi still present at C or had he left for Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Residents heard from Mr Buthelezi himself after he has calmed down by saying Bulelwa has been killed.

CHAIRPERSON: Why was it necessary for you again to explain to the community actually what had happened because Buthelezi from what you're telling us had already given that report.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: There were some questions of what happened to Bulelwa exactly what happened in Mololeke, I think there were some questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any reason why the community that had gathered at Block C did not proceed to the spot where Bulelwa's body had been found?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Do you mean from the meeting proceed to the spot or from that meeting back to their respective houses?

CHAIRPERSON: To the spot where Bulelwa's body was lying.  You see I get the impression that Buthelezi, after he had calmed down, explained to the people who had gathered at Block C that Bulelwa had been killed and he then left for Block F.  There were questions, you told us, which required you to answer them so what I'm asking is because you then knew that Bulelwa's body had been found at Block F and that is where you were likely to get the information as to what had happened.  Why did that community which had gathered there not proceed to Block F to where the body of Bulelwa's was lying?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Some of the residents of Block C, when they said to me I should not go there, it is because the previous week they saw members of the SDU's attacking me and Mr Mosala.  That is why they prevented me not to proceed to Block F because I was their target, if I appear there I would land in their hands.

CHAIRPERSON: The members of the community and the other members of the Youth League were gathered at C, why didn't they proceed to Block F?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't know Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: What decision, if any, was taken at this gathering at Block C of and concerning the members of the SDU?