Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ermelo — 1997-05-22

MR LEWIN: Can you hear us ?  Can you  hear us speaking  through the  headphones ?  Is that  better ?  Can you hear now ?  Can you hear the translation ?  Can I try again ?  Can you hear through the headphones ?

TRANSLATOR: The witness says she can't hear anything.

MR LEWIN: Is that better ?  Is that better now ?

TRANSLATOR: Yes, she says she can hear.

MR LEWIN: You can hear ?  Lovely.  Mama Mabuza what our procedure is that you will be led by one of the Commissioners and to-day we ask Dr Randera to help you in telling your story but before you start can I ask you please to take the oath and I would ask Russel Ally please to lead you in that oath.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mrs Mabuza do you swear the testimony that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God ?

MAMANE MABUZA: (sworn states)
Thank you.
Thank you.  Dr Randera !

DR RANDERA: Mrs Mabuza, good morning.  Can you first of all introduce us to the lady who is with you.

MAMANE MABUZA: I'm with Mrs Dube.

DR RANDERA: I welcome Mrs Dube as well.  Thank you for coming to-day.  You are now sixty six years old.

MAMANE MABUZA: That's correct.

DR RANDERA: You are going to take us to a time in the history of  this community that I'm sure most people would like to bury, which was a very painful time.  We're talking about the period 1990.  You're going to tell us about your daughter Queen Gladys Mabuza.  Before you do that I would like you to take the opportunity of telling us something about yourself and then something about Queen before you tell us the story about what happened to her.  So take your time.  Don't feel frightened.  You are amongst friends.  So please tell us what hap, tell us yourself and about Queen first of all.

MAMANE MABUZA: This happened.  Queen left home.  Queen was killed by a group called Cats or Amakati.  I only came to know this when I was notified by the police at about nine a.m. in the morning and that they had dumped her body near the cemetery and I sent Mrs Dube to go with the police to identify my daughter's body.  She went with the police and she positively identified my daughter, Queen.  They took photographs of Queen, of Queen's body and Mrs Dube was the one who was there when all this took place.
 he matter proceeded and when it was supposed to go to court, there was some relative quiet and the matter never proceeded to the court of law until a period of three years lapsed without me hearing anything from the police or from the court.  I received a letter from Mr Botha and they said they couldn't hold anybody responsible for  my daughter's death and I said I do not believe that type of story because I do not believe that the law wasn't able to deal with the perpetrators.  They said that there was some dirty soil but they did not know as to who buried my daughter in that shallow ground.  That was the end of my daughter's case.  I was totally dissatisfied and he said I should wait.  He was going to consult with his police so that he was going to get the case number.   I asked for the case number too and he said I should wait that he phoned Pretoria so that he could furnish me with further details with regard to my daughter's case number but he didn't seem able to find any tangible information.  They said that they had taken photo's of my daughter but they couldn't find any positive or tangible evidence pointing to the perpetrators.  
 He further urged me to wait so that he could get the statement that had the case number, from Pretoria and he would tell me in due course when he'd collected the relevant information from the police in Pretoria.  Ever since then I haven't heard anything about my daughters death or the case.  Now I would like the Truth Commission to assist me in getting more information with regard to my daughter's death.  Also the case number.

DR RANDERA: Is there anything else you want to add about the actual killing.  In your statement you described what was done to your daughter.  Do you feel at ease about telling us what was done to your daughter ?

MAMANE MABUZA: When I saw my daughter, her eye had been gouged out.  She had been stabbed on the breasts and they had opened her chest and her internal organs were exposed.  They also took out the uterus.  They tied her feet.  Both her feet were tied together.  I feel very disturbed about the whole situation.  She was a matriculant.  She'd just completed her matric and I had high hopes that she would proceed to work and help me at the end of the day.   Ever since that happened I've been terribly disturbed and I've got chronic illnesses.  I just cannot cope.  I have to be lifted to the taxis.  I can't walk properly.  If been inflicted by a number of diseases ever since this happened.

DR RANDERA: Just tell us a little more about Queen.  You said she had just matriculated.  Did she have any children ?

MAMANE MABUZA: No, she never had any children.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Mabuza I'm sure you've lived in that community for a long time.  How long have you actually lived in Wesselton ?

MAMANE MABUZA: I was living there from a long time ago.  It's a long time since I've been staying there at 154 Marbilisa Street.

DR RANDERA: In your own words and your own time tell us your understanding of what was happening in the community at that time.  You have mentioned the Amakati,  The  Black  Cats as they were  called, the gangs.  Where did they come from ?  How did they come into existence ?

MAMANE MABUZA: This gangster came about when we realised that there was a lot of violence within the community.  There were a lot of murders, a lot of rapes and people were being killed brutally.  They also were conducting house break-ins around the area but they weren't getting arrested and we don't know the origin of the group.  Maybe their members could explain themselves as to where they came from because we don't even know where the name itself originated from or why they called themselves The Cats.

DR RANDERA: I'm sorry, I'm not trying to harass you or  worry you but just tell us, you said there was a lot of violence.  What was this violence about ?  Was there a political reason for this violence or was it just criminal violence as we talk about it to-day ?

MAMANE MABUZA: I think they are the ones who came up with the violence because at that time Ermelo was a relatively calm area.  It was very quiet and they came up with this crime wave.  I don't think it had anything to do with politics.  These were purely criminal acts perpetrated by this gang.

DR RANDERA: Do you know whether this, from your understanding, do you feel that there was any relationship between this gang and any political party on the one hand whether it be the Incatha Freedom  Party, the African National Congress, the Nationalist Party ?  Also, from your discussions with people in the community, was there any relationship that people thought there was between this gang and  the police ?

MAMANE MABUZA: Where was daughter was killed was killed by Inkatha members and the Inkatha was calling themselves Black Cats so these Cats were Inkatha members and maybe they know what the conflict was all about, or they knew at the time.  I'm not clear on that aspect.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Mabuza, sorry one last question I'm going to move on.  How do you know that they were Inkatha members ?

MAMANE MABUZA: We usually used to identify them as they walked around in groups and the children or the youth would identify them as the Inkatha group which were calling themselves The Cats.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  Let me just come back to Queen.  Was Queen involved in any political grouping as far as you know ?

MAMANE MABUZA: As far as I know, no.

DR RANDERA: She wasn't part of the Comrades, she wasn't part of the UDF, she hadn't been involved in burning houses, attacking people ?

MAMANE MABUZA: No, not as far as I know.  She's never been involved in such things or acts.