Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-14

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: When we arrived at the Mazebugu home, some persons unknown to me had tried to burn the house down.   Sipho Molaba had said that these boys from the UDF used to stay there, we used to call such places Izingotcha.   On that day, Sipho Molaba told me that we must do away or destroy this house.  When we arrived there, there were some boys or (indistinct) and they had petrol bombs.  I said they should throw these petrol bombs into the house and run away, so that whoever emerges from the house will be the person that we attack.  It did not happen that way, because when we got there and throw petrol bombs nobody emerged from the house, instead we went in, we poured petrol all over the house and burnt it, we watched while it was burning, until it was completely destroyed.  We were not concerned whether police came or not, because we had heavy weapons, we even had a light machine gun.  Therefore we were burning this house on purpose, such that we did not care if the police came, we were there to see that the house burnt down completely.

CHAIRPERSON: Please calm down.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you, Mr Lethuli.  Now we have heard evidence that there was an attack at a place known as Summertime, is that correct?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: Do you confirm the evidence that has been led previously that you know about this attack and participated?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Do you confirm that houses were destroyed there and, about eight houses, and nine people were killed at that place?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Now let's move on to Mopela, at page 264.  You have heard the evidence by Mr Dlamini that there was an attack at Mopela at one stage, is that correct?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That's correct.

MR NGUBANE: And do you confirm that the attack took place as he has described it to the commission?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Now is it correct that attacks at Mopela occurred on more than one occasion?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes, on many occasions.

MR NGUBANE: Do you recall an incident when the Mjwafa family and the Zondi family were killed?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: Can you tell us a bit more about that?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: The person who was a commander in that area was Mkupini Khomede, he was also my subordinate.  He knew the area of (Indistinct) and Mopela and Jubagasi very well, therefore I had deployed him there to command that area.  My duty was to assist him if maybe he needed weapons.  Whatever weapon he needed, I would supply it.  The details of the actual attack on the house I do not have, but I know that he was the one in operation.

MR NGUBANE: Okay, thank you.  Now we turn to page 273, the death of Lati Sabisi.

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: With regards to this incident, I was called by Sipho Molaba, and on arrival there, I found houses burning and there were people who had been killed, and the people who were responsible were across at Mopela, and he showed me a house where they stayed.  I did see the house and there were people who were around there.   He was not alone, he was in the company of another commander whom I had deployed to him, Zombi, and I told Zombi, "Do you see that house, you would have to do something about it, you have to tell me what you need and I will supply it".
	Zombi came to me in the afternoon and he told me what weapons he needed, and I gave them to him.  Then he left.  I followed thereafter, picked up Mr Ndlaba and we went to stand on a hill where we could see the house across.  In the evenings we heard gunshots and the house was burnt.  People, the boys, returned later, but they returned after a long while.  When they returned, they were carried Lati Sabisi, who was injured.   
	On inquiring how this person was injured, they told me that a mistake had been made, they had told Otolowene to pour petrol and not enter the house, but this boy had indeed entered the house on his own and they had not realised that he was one of them and they had shot him accidentally, therefore he was injured and they had carried him back.  I told the person who used to drive Mr Ndlaba's car to take him to the hospital.  They did not reach the hospital, he died on the way.   
	We had a problem of how to report the incident to his family, and therefore I said to Mr Ndlaba that we will say that he had been killed by the Comrades.  We went to the family and expressed our regrets and told them that he had been killed by the enemy.

MR NGUBANE: The attack on the Rainbow bus, that is at page 275, can you tell us about that?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Rainbow buses used to transport employees of Rainbow from both political parties.  As time went on, the buses were divided, people who stayed in Unit 4 and Moody Glen, some people from Masigane will board the bus to go to Xosas, and when it arrived there, some people will be removed from the bus and killed and burnt, and the people who remained in the bus would be the ones to report that such an incident had happened.  	This happened in Unit 4, which was an ANC area.   Therefore, when we moved from Moody Glen, we knew that we would be facing war, because we would be in an area where we are not welcome, therefore our going there would be to rescue the people who were being detained, we might find them alive or they might be dead by the time we arrived.
	Maybe these people will be waiting for us, awaiting our arrival, and we would fight and maybe because we were stronger, they would retreat until such time that we would arrive at the spot and find these people, sometimes they will be burnt and we will return home with them.  In that process the Telewani group would attack the houses and petrol bomb some.  Some people will be attacked, shot, all this happened.

MR NGUBANE: And in all fairness to you, Mr Lethuli, you cannot be in a position to pinpoint and particularise the names of the people and the houses that were killed and destroyed in the process respectively?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes, that would be very difficult.

MR NGUBANE: Now at 277 you talk about the attack at Njubugase, do you recall that incident?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: This happened after there was peace in this area.  There was peace in Mpumalanga only, but the other areas had not as yet established peace.  The violence in Mopela started in this fashion.  There was UDF and IFP at both Mopela and Njubugase, but there had never been political conflict in those areas.  It started on the day when Induna Khomo had held a meeting with the people.  As a member of Inkatha, as I have mentioned before, not all people from Njubugase were IFP members.  There were areas that were - there was a demarcation of areas, there was Osuthu and Ngonzene.  The Osuthu area belonged to the IFP and Ngonzene to the UDF.  When the Induna called the meeting, the UDF members decided to attack these people.  They killed 21 people on that occasion.  I was not present in Mpumalanga at that time, I was telephoned in Ulundi and the incident was reported to me, and the people who called me were afraid to go into Njubugase.  They waited until I arrived and on my arrival I assembled some boys and we armed ourselves and we went there.  On arrival, we did indeed see the horrible sight, and as far as I could see hand grenades were used in killing those people.  The police arrived while we were still there, and I said we should retreat.  They had already told me who the responsible people were from Ngonzene, and I said we will make a plan and we will go there.

MR NGUBANE: So you also participated in the attack at Shongwene or you bear knowledge about the attack in the Shongwene area, is it correct?