Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-21

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I will now call to the witness stand, Mosiuwa Isaia Khotle.

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: What are your full names?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: Mosiuwa Isaia Khotle.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Khotle, the affidavit in front of you is before the Committee, do you confirm that this affidavit was made by yourself and you abide by its contents?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, in regard to this applicant I will not waste the time of the Committee, I will leave it to the Committee to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Where is this affidavit?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I'm surprised, I don't even know that the Committee does not have, I was given back the copy and the other one.  They were all photostatted to be handed over, for the applicant and so for the purposes of this hearing.  I don't know what would have happened.  I'm sorry Mr Chairman, I didn't know that it's not before the Committee because they were done with the other one, the first applicant, together.

CHAIRPERSON: Well can you lead him on the relevant facts and can someone be making a copy of this in the meanwhile?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Has he got a copy in front of him?

MR MBANDAZAYO: He has a copy Mr Chairman.   Mr Chairman, can I in the meantime lead?

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] similar to ...[intervention]

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, it's the same except that he further tells that he was arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Quite clearly his participation would have been different.  He didn't carry the safe out, for example.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, it's only that he was handed money over to him and he was caught by the police with the money, that's the only aspect.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Khotle, can you tell the Committee just how did you manage, how did it happen that you were arrested with the money which was taken at Pep Stores?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: On that day of the incident I was together with comrade Prof.  He gave me money.  After he had given me that money the police were around that area and then because comrade Prof put on the balaclava there were able to see us.
	He said to me I should move from that yard to the front opposite house.  At the time when I was at the gate, that is the time when the police arrested me together with the money.

MR MBANDAZAYO: According to your knowledge, is there any amount of money which comrade Prof took before you were handed over the other money?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: No, I don't believe it that way.  He died during the cross-fire.  As to whether he took money I don't believe.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is it also correct that in court you pleased not guilty to the offence?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you were subsequently found guilty?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: That is correct, I was found guilty.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: What were you told about the operation?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: As I've already stated in my affidavit that I was told about the day of the operation.  I was informed that we should go and take money from that particular place so that we could be able to enhance the political objectives or our organisations, so that we will be able to have money to continue with our struggle.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the money to be used for your organisation, APLA?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Who told you this?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: My unit commander which is comrade Prof.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any idea of how much money was found on you?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: I don't know because the police did not count that money in my presence so I do know how much was it.

MR STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR STEENKAMP

MR MALAN: I have one question only to pursue this please.
	You answered to the question by the Chair, that you were told on the day that you would take the money to enhance the political objectives, then you said: 
"So that we would have money to continue for the struggle"
Now would that money be used by yourself and Prof and the first applicant, your brother or how would that have been used?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: We are people of flesh and blood, we should be able to have food and have guns so that we would be able to continue with the struggle.

MR MALAN: So would you have shared it so that you can buy guns when needed and buy food when you needed or how would you have done it?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: We were not supposed to share, the unit, it was supposed to be in the unit's coffers.

MR MALAN: Where was the money of the unit kept?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: It's the unit commander who is in charge of the money, because I'm just a mere soldier.

MR MALAN: Did you work at that time?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: No, Sir.

MR MALAN: How did you get your food?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: I was staying at home at that time.

MR MALAN: Who gave you food?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: My parents Sir.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, that is just the case of the applicants in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where Prof got his instructions from?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: According to the information he received his instructions from comrade Mpathlele.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that Raymond Leklapa Mpathlele?

MOSIUWA ISAIA KHOTLE: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is the case of the applicants Sir.  There is no other evidence ...[indistinct]

MR STEENKAMP: I've got no further comment, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you propose to lead any evidence?

MR STEENKAMP: I'm not going to lead any evidence, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]