Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

MS MTHEMBU: I tried to search but I cannot find out where the problem lies because I am not fighting for seats.  You know if there is a conference, if the masses elect me there will be a caucus please don't elect Sarah she's an informer, she's a spy, that's my problem actually.  I think if those people can come here to the Truth Commission maybe they will tell the Commission why do they have to make such statements because my children always tell me mom can you leave the politics because you have problems every day.

MS MKHIZE: Do you maybe want to tell the Commission if you say you are in fear of your life and when you refer to comrades?

MS MTHEMBU: It's just a name, we don't know who the comrades are.

MS MKHIZE: Are there people specifically that you can mention, I want to put it this way?
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
13 S MTHEMBU

MS MTHEMBU: Can I please get some people from the Commission who will sit down with me and I'll give them names of people who have been spreading this rumour?  I am still working even now in the organisations and I'm very active.   I don't know what the problem actually is with these people.  Do they want me to stay and do nothing?  But if the Commission allows me to have people in private and give the names of the people who have been spreading this rumour maybe I will be relieved.

BONGANI FINCA: Did I hear you correct earlier on that you said that the police said to you they did not want to kill Jerry but they wanted to kill Maria, is that correct?

MS MTHEMBU: Yes that's correct.

BONGANI FINCA: Are you able to say to us who said that to you, or are you afraid of saying that to us now?

MS MTHEMBU: I don't actually know his name but I can identify if a parade can be conducted.

BONGANI FINCA: Can I further ask you said that when you wanted to report this to the police station you were told that you must go and report it to Khotso House, does that mean the South African Council of Churches' offices?

MS MTHEMBU: Yes they referred to that place.

BONGANI FINCA: Can you remember who said that to you, which police station referred you to Khotso House?

MS MTHEMBU: Those were policemen from Alexandra.

CHAIRPERSON: Please don't turn off my microphone before I call on the person because we have been specifically asked by the people doing the radio broadcasts that it is important for the listeners to know who is speaking.  Could you let me say the name first before you take me off the air.
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
14 S MTHEMBU

YASMINE SOOKA: Sarah could you tell us, you said you went to Priscilla Jana did she act for you?

MS MTHEMBU: No I didn't go to Priscilla Jana, Maria went to Priscilla, that's Maria who went to Priscilla, not me.  I only went there after Maria gave birth.  The police said to me Maria has a baby daughter, what's the name of the child and I said no I don't know, Maria will have to personally give the child the name and she said the name will be Nonkululeko.  They said to me do you know the meaning of Nonkululeko?  I said no.  They said it means freedom.  Maria is lying, there will never be freedom here.  Those were the police who came to me to tell me that Maria has a child. They said you should come and fetch Maria's child.  I said no I will never, Maria is the mother to the child they will have to be together in prison.

YASMINE SOOKA: Will you tell me about the bombing of your house?

MS MTHEMBU: Yes.  My house was bombed because there was a people's court.  It was right in my garage in my yard.  They bombed my house because people would go to no.31 people's court.  They referred people to my house that's why it was bombed.  And the people who did that were the police wearing blue and grey and they called themselves the Gabasa.  It was something to six when I met them, I was from work and they said you must be careful, we are going to attack Alexandra today.  And I told them exactly what I was told.  While I was watching TV it was towards seven I heard gunshots.  It was the police driving a hippo.  They shot and they set the fire.  We were together with Mzwanele Dakane, all activists were in the house during that time.  We escaped through a back door window, that's where I realised a hippo lighting
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
15 S MTHEMBU
at the people wearing blue uniforms.  That's where I managed to take the registration.  I went to the lawyers and I told them this is the hippo's registration, people were at my house, attacking.

YASMINE SOOKA: Are you talking about Priscilla Jana?

MS MTHEMBU: Ja Priscilla Jana and Spoor and Richard Spoor.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you remember the date of the bombing?

MS MTHEMBU: I can't remember.  I think Priscilla and the second lawyer they both have the statements, everything is right there.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Sarah.  After Maria has given us a speech I want to say something.  Can we go and have some tea, a short break, a 15 minute tea break unfortunately because we are running a little late.  What I have asked in previous sessions is that we stand as well this time until the witnesses have left.  Please stand.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS FOR TEA
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
16 M MTHEMBU

DR BORAINE: Please put on the earphones.
MARIA MTHEMBU

DR BORAINE: Maria we are very pleased to see you, as well as your daughter.  You've listened to your mother tell the story and the stories about your brother Jerry and would you like to add anything to that story please. We are now ready to listen to you.