Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The reason for that was that I read this typed Annexure B because I haven't seen it in that form.  I did - a day before the closing of the amnesty application, we did have a discussion regarding the AWB and their ideologies and objectives and as I said, I did not read that annexure in the typed form.

MR BRACHER: In what form did you see it before?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: With my advocate it was in an oral form.

MR BRACHER: 'n Mondelingse vorm?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes, we spoke about it.

MR BRACHER: But where do all those words come from, whose words are they?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The words in that annexure is not my own words.

MR BRACHER: And the first time you've ever heard those words was when you discussed them with your advocate preparing for this amnesty application?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct yes.

MR BRACHER: So it has nothing to do with your motivation at the time of these deeds because you'd never heard of those words then?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Those words no, but I did have time to read through this annexure and that is at times when these deeds were committed, it was my motivation and that is correct yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, Mr Du Plessis, where did you live?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: At that stage I lived in the Ficksburg District.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you part of the people who were called up to Ventersdorp?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I was called by Leon van der Merwe on the phone.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you go to Ventersdorp - what did you think will happen there?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairperson, before the elections, certain promises were made.  I attended various AWB meetings and then also meetings of the Volksfront.  In the Volksfront, former Generals of the Defence Force and Police also served and they told us that the volk must stand together and the nation must stand together and that is why the Conservative Party and the AWB in the Volksfront or why they combined all of them together was my opinion that the Defence Force, the AWB, the Volksfront will not accept the communist takeover in the country and that there would be a coup.

CHAIRPERSON: So the reason why you went to Ventersdorp was to help in order to create a coup?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The reason why I went to Ventersdorp was it was said to me before that an Afrikaner Volkstaat will be created in the Western Transvaal and I wanted to be in that Afrikaner Volkstaat.  It was also said to me that some of the Defence Force members and police would walk over to our side and assist us in order to establish that Volkstaat.  That is why I left the Free State to the Western Transvaal.

CHAIRPERSON: To go and found or establish or help establish a Volkstaat?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So you thought there would be a Volkstaat - from home you thought that you were going to your new home?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes, that is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Mr Du Plessis, coming back to Annexure B, we know that racial purity is not part of your motivation, you've
already said that?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BRACHER: So those words don't come from you?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Purity of race, no Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: When you first saw all those words - it's about eight pages of motivation - whose words are they, did you draw them up?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Mr Chairperson, I did not write it.  Those words are from an AWB policy piece which was drawn up by the AWB's, I assume, Generals in Staff.  Mr Chairperson, my advocate has got a copy of it and they call it the "First Phase Wen Kommando Officers Course" and the words appear in that Annexure B or comes from that book.

MR BRACHER: You say the words come out of this book?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct, yes.  I do not know if it is word for word.

MR BRACHER: Were you in the Wen Kommando?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Before I became a member of the Ystergarde, I was there for a short period of time, yes.

MR BRACHER: And you subscribed to everything in this book?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Could you please repeat the question?

MR BRACHER: I say, do you subscribe to everything in this book, is that where you get your motivation from?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairperson, that specific book I did not read, I did read other policies of the AWB, that specific book is a course for officers in the Wen Kommando.

MR BRACHER: You first said it was the document, then you said it was a verbal form, then you said it was this, now you say it's not that.  Will you please tell me where you got your motivation for your deeds at the time you bombed people?  What book had you read then or what had you written down or what was your motivation for your deeds then?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: When the bombs were planted, the book that I read was a black book, I think the title was "The Principles of the AWB".  In that book the strives for a Volkstaat is described and the leader structure of the AWB at that stage and that is where I found my motivation.

MR BRACHER: Does it say anything in that book about racial purity?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairperson, I cannot remember if I ever read the words "purity of race" in that book.  Many of the things that is said in that book is similar to what is said in that Boerevolk identity document that Mr Fourie submitted to the Commission.

MR BRACHER: Can we have it absolutely clear - if we get a black book called "Die Beginsels van die AWB" - that is what you subscribed to?  And it was different from B - you don't subscribe to B, you subscribed to that at the time of the bombing?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I would not say that everything that is pertinently said in that book that that was my personal principles.

MR BRACHER: Right, Mr Du Plessis, take as long as you want this afternoon and the whole of tomorrow if you like, tell this Committee what you subscribed to at the time of the bombing, that cause you to commit these bombings.

CHAIRPERSON: I hope you're not serious.

MR BRACHER: I am serious.  Don't read anything, just tell us from your own words what you subscribed to, what - can I just read to you from your form because this is what it's supposed to be.  You see it says in your application form "Mention political motive that wanted to be reached and through your motivation say why you committed these offences with a political objective and how you see this."  The political objective or your deeds and the motivation for your deeds.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Question 10a - we can begin and say that the political objectives that I wanted to reach through my deeds was firstly to fight the struggle against the ANC/SACP Alliance, against Communism.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that contained in one of the documents?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I think it is in Annexure B, I would just like to see what specific point that is.

MR BRACHER: That's point number 1 "Fight against the ANC/SACP Alliance.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct.  Point number 2 - the establishment of an Afrikaner Boere Volkstaat.  Before the general elections, we realised that such a state would not be handed over to us and that is why we also then ...[intervention]

ADV GCABASHE: Sorry, I had to stop you - you say "we realised" can you make this "you" specific, it helps us better because the question I think is related to your political motivation, your political objective.  So in your answer it confuses us if you talk about the "we" and then the "I" - we just want to know about you personally, it will help us a lot more.  Thanks.