Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

MR NTSEBEZA: Mr Sithole, I just want to clear up a few things for my own understanding.  Now this statement, I don't know whether, is there a copy that can be available to the witness?  This statement which you are using, this statement.  Do you know that statement?  It is the statement that you were being led on by your lawyer.  Do you know that statement?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, I do.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who was it written by?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: It was written by my lawyer.

MR NTSEBEZA: In other words, this is your lawyer's handwriting.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did he read it back to you after you had...[intervention]

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: That's what I wanted to confirm with him after this, because I think there is a confusion as Mr Boraine has just mentioned of something.  I didn't read it and that's why I didn't have any signature on it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now, let me ask the question again.  Did the lawyer read the statement back to you?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: No.

MR NTSEBEZA: He did not.  I see.  Now it says you paid R500 and thereafter left the country for political reasons.  Is that right?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: In other words, you skipped bail.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: And since your return have you been approached by the police with a warrant of arrest for having skipped bail?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: No, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Do you know if the police are aware that you have returned?  Do you know if they are aware that you have returned?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: And you have not been charged again on the charges for which you had applied for bail.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

DR BORAINE: I'm sorry, Mr Sithole, I just have two more questions.  Firstly, you told my colleague Mr Ntsebeza that no one has approached you since your return to South Africa, nobody in the police, and he asked you, do they know that you are back in the country, and you said "yes".  How do you know that they know?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: The reason for me to be saying so is that the job that I'm doing it confirm your availability within the country to the State and including the police, I think.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  The last question is - and it's a question asked by Mrs Mandela's lawyer, or I think he put it to you, and again because of these headphones I wasn't able to hear to absolutely write it down, and that is according to Mrs Mandela in her evidence at another hearing she didn't know you, Jabu Sithole, but you say that you've stayed there and you - many times in both houses.  But I think the explanation that was being offered was that Mrs Mandela didn't know you as Jabu Sithole but she knew you by a nickname.  Now I couldn't hear that, and I wonder if you wouldn't mind telling me again what is the nickname that people know you as.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: It's Javas.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you, Chairperson, just a question I wanted to ask.  When a warning statement was shown to you by Mr Vally, you quickly indicated that it does not bear your signature.  Do you recall that?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: And I notice that this statement also does not bear a signature.  Is that correct?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did you elect not to sign this particular statement?  Today's statement.  When you made it to that lawyer.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: I made it to the lawyer thinking that he will come back to me.  Unfortunately I was called, because everything was just an express.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  Did you ask to sign it?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: I didn't ask to sign it, but I thought Mr Miller will come back to me to make use of the statement and make me read the statement, and at the same time sign it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now do I understand you to be saying, had he asked you to sign it you would have no problem signing it?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Can you repeat it, sir?

MR NTSEBEZA: Are you suggesting that had Mr Miller asked you to sign your statement to the extent that it reflects what you wanted it to say, you would have had no problem signing it?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: No, I was going to have a sort of a problem.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  What would have been your problem?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Because I believe that whatever I want to state maybe in an official structure or in official forum like this one, I had to do it on my own so that I can express whatever it is in my heart.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  Do I then understand you to be saying you would not have signed this statement because you had not been writing it out yourself?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: You would have adopted the same attitude towards the writing of this statement that you adopted to TRC investigators to whom you refused to give a written statement.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: If there was an insistence, yes, I was going to make sure that I personally write the statement and go through it again thoroughly and carefully before signing it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Would your reason for not signing this statement be the same reason you had when you purportedly did not sign the warning statement, namely that you didn't make out the warning statement, which you said you refused to sign?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Which was the warning statement?

MR NTSEBEZA: The statement that Mr Vally showed you which you made to the police in connection with the murder of Stompie.

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: That statement I think it was not even read to me by those police of that time.

MR NTSEBEZA: Like this one, in the same way as you claim this one was not read to you by Mr Miller, a lawyer?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: I do want to say in defence of Mr Miller that we did ask him at very short notice to try and represent Mr Sithole, and therefore I would want for that to be noted as explaining, because we did say we would want to have this thing expedited, and therefore in defence of him, insofar as I can give you a defence, I would like us to note, I mean, that there is something in mitigation.

MR NTSEBEZA: Mr Chairperson, I was not impugning (indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but I just want those who might be wanting to report to know that he came to fill a breach very, very quickly and I did express our appreciation for that.

UNKNOWN: Mr Sithole, I just want to follow up on the nickname if you - right in the beginning of your evidence you mentioned that you visited a relative at Mrs Mandela's home, and that you also had a friend there.  But is not true that you have a nephew?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: I visited a relative.  I don't understand when you are saying I visited a relative.  I visited a friend whom I was studying with.

UNKNOWN: Was Sizwe Sithole not your cousin?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: He was my cousin, but I normally didn't visit him.

UNKNOWN: No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Miller?

MR MILLER: Chairperson, I just wish to state that it's quite true that the statement's not signed by the witness, but I can state that it's an accurate reflection of exactly what he did state to me in consultation.  It is an accurate summary of what was stated.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  You will note what I said to you.  I beg your pardon.  Mr Unterhalter?

MR UNTERHALTER: Mr Sithole, my name is David Unterhalter and I act for certain of the families here.  Mr Sithole, if you are to be believed, you were not a member of the football club, is that correct?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.

MR UNTERHALTER: And you only infrequently visited Mrs Mandela's house in the course of 1989, is that correct?

JOSEPH JABULANI SITHOLE: Yes, sir.