Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: My question probably has not been made simple.  I just want to find out what explanation did she proffer to you about the content of the packet.  Did she explain to you that what was in that packet was in fact a pistol and not a jersey?

UNKNOWN: She told me that she had peeped into the parcel and there was a firearm.

UNKNOWN: So you knew long before Mr Derby-Lewis was arrested that what had been delivered on the 11th March was in fact a firearm?

UNKNOWN: Before the 11th March, no I did not know before the 11th March.

UNKNOWN: When then did you know?  What date was that, the Special Meeting for the election of the Mayor was on the 10th March?

UNKNOWN: Yes that is correct and was only after the 11th March that I heard about this firearm.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything that must have happened to prompt your wife to give you this explanation only on the 11th March and not on the evening of the 10th March about the content of the packet which was delivered by Mr Venter to your wife?

UNKNOWN: No we did not discuss that except that I had to telephone Mr Derby-Lewis and tell him that he had to collect his jersey.

UNKNOWN: You know, this is what puzzles me more, Mr Du Randt, that you had to phone Mr Derby-Lewis to collect the jersey when in your statement, I think that's paragraph 5, Mr Derby-Lewis had already told you to ring the meeting of the 10th March, that you must expect a jersey to be delivered and that he would come the next day to collect the jersey?  So why was it necessary again to phone him and advise him and arrange for the collection of the jersey when that in fact had already been concluded?

UNKNOWN: As I've already told you on Thursdays we visit our daughter.  There was a confusion with her birthday, we usually go there on Thursdays and therefore I phoned Clive early on Thursday and told him to pick up his jersey.  In the mean while my daughter phoned as I've mentioned and then I told my wife let's go and deliver it ourselves then we needn't wait for Clive.

UNKNOWN: But it is correct that Derby-Lewis had already arranged with you that such a collection would be done the following day after the meeting of the 10th March?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we've arranged that, that is correct but my wife did not want to wait any longer, wait for Clive Derby-Lewis to come and fetch the jersey himself.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

MR MALENDI: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Du Randt is it not that you and your wife were so keen to have that weapon delivered because you knew it wasn't a jersey and it was a weapon.  That is why the following day and the evening before you made all these phone calls to Mr Derby-Lewis to collect it. If it was an ordinary jersey you wouldn't have been in such a hurry for it to be picked up, is it not so?

UNKNOWN: No it's not so.

MR MALENDI: After Mr Derby-Lewis was arrested together with Mr Walus you must have made a connection between their arrest and the gun that was delivered at your house which you passed on to Mr Derby-Lewis, is it not so?

UNKNOWN: I've heard it over the news that Mr Derby-Lewis had been arrested regarding this firearm.

MR MALENDI: And you were conscious of the fact that you had delivered a weapon at his house?

UNKNOWN: I was not aware of the fact at that stage when I delivered that parcel.  At that stage I was not aware that there was a firearm in that parcel.

MR MALENDI: After he was arrested did you suspect that he and Mr Walus may have used the weapon that you received on their behalf, you and your wife?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman it's human that you could think something like that but you couldn't say anything.

MR MALENDI: While Mr Derby-Lewis was in detention before Mrs Derby-Lewis was arrested, did your family visit her to console her?  Did your family visit Mrs Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: Yes we did visit her, yes.

MR MALENDI: And did you raise the fact that you had received, or your family had received, a weapon and now Mr Derby-Lewis and Walus are arrested and raised your concern about whether you had delivered the weapon that was used to assassinate Chris Hani to Mrs Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: No Mr Chairman.

MR MALENDI: You did not raise the question at all, the issue at all, with Mrs Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: No Mr Chairman, there were other members there, there were security guards there, I did not mention that.

MR MALENDI: Did you visit her only when there were police around the house?

UNKNOWN: No, I want to repeat, I'm a member of the party and when I had post I had to deliver it to Mr Clive Derby-Lewis' house.

MR MALENDI: And during these visits did you say to Mrs Derby-Lewis my family delivered a weapon at your house on behalf of Mr Derby-Lewis and we are concerned about the fact that he and Walus have been arrested for the assassination of Chris Hani and a weapon was used.  Did you say that to Mrs Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: No I can't remember that I've said that.

MR MALENDI: You don't remember if you've ever based that concern?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: But it was an important issue which you should have raised if you were concerned about the use of this weapon?

UNKNOWN: No I was not worried because I trusted Clive Derby-Lewis.

MR MALENDI: Are you a member of the Town Council Mr Du Randt, or were you a member of the Town Council in 1993 - April?

UNKNOWN: No, I was not a member of the Town Council.

MR MALENDI: You were not.

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Was Mr Derby-Lewis a member of the Town Council?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: And yet you attended every Town Council meeting?

UNKNOWN: That is correct, yes.

MR MALENDI: Why did you do so?

UNKNOWN: Because I did it in the interest of the town and of my neighbours, I was a taxpayer and if things were discussed regarding our town, I had to be present.

MR MALENDI: It was a place where Mr Derby-Lewis could also pass messages on to you to receive clandestine weapons on his behalf?

UNKNOWN: No that was not the place, we held meetings at my house.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, you have given contradictory evidence on various aspects before this Committee and these contradictions show that you knew more than you are prepared to admit before this Committee.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, that's a very sweeping statement to make.  What contradictions are you referring to?

CHAIRPERSON: Anyway, that's a matter for argument really.  As there are contradictions between his evidence and his statement that have been put to him about dates.  Yes please proceed.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, my last statement to you is that you have not been frank about your knowledge of the delivery of this weapon and the purpose therefore.

UNKNOWN: I was honest, I spoke the truth, I did not know what this weapon was going to be used for.

MR MALENDI: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   Re-examination?
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Du Randt I'm referring you to Volume 4 of the Court documents, page 168 (3a) line 17.  "Are you sure about that?"  "I'm sure that it was a Town Council meeting because these meetings are usually held and at that meeting the new Mayor was elected."

UNKNOWN: Yes that is what I've said.

MR PRINSLOO: And that had happened on the 10th March?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: The prayer meeting which was held at your house, after this prayer meeting are refreshments served?  Do you drink tea?

UNKNOWN: Often yes you drink tea or coffee or somebody brings a tart or cake and you eat that.  I can't remember what happened specifically that evening.

MR PRINSLOO: At any stage did you suspect that what you had delivered to Mr Clive Derby-Lewis, that which your wife told you was a firearm, did you think it was unlicensed?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR PRINSLOO: Do I understand your evidence correctly that you are interested in the Ratepayers Association?  Was that the reason you attended council meetings so regularly?

UNKNOWN: Yes.