Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-15

WENDY ORR: Andile I just want to check that you can hear me through  [indistinct] , can you hear me now?  You can hear the translation coming through?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I can hear.

WENDY ORR: [indistinct] who has come with you today to offer you support.  Before we hear your evidence can I ask you to stand to take the oath.
ANDILE HUBERT NDINISA  Duly sworn states

WENDY ORR: Andile we have heard yesterday and again today about the terrible violence that effected Mbekweni in 1985 and 1986.  And in December 1985 you to were affected by that violence and very badly injured.  So I'm going to ask you to tell us what happened to you that day in December.  In your own words but if you can start off by just telling us  a little bit about yourself, whether your a student or whether your working, how old you are and then move into the story of December 1985.

UNKNOWN: I was a student, I was going Std 5 and was 16 years old at the time.  And in December month very early in the morning I was sent somewhere.  On a Saturday and I - when I got to the place I saw a crowd of people coming, rushing towards me and I heard some gun shots and I ran away.  But unfortunately I ran towards the person who was shooting.  I got into one house having knocked, whilst knocking I couldn't see any people and I heard someone talking saying that I was one of the people who was being looking - wanted.
 Then I felt something hitting me on my back and once more another one hit me on the back - 3 times I was hit on the back.  Then I fell and collapsed, then this particular person jumped over the fence - it was a policeman and he continued to shoot me and he shot me 4 times in addition to the 3 wounds I had.  And then the owner of the house intervened.

WENDY ORR: Take your time Andile, I can see that this is very difficult for you.

UNKNOWN: Then the owner of that house intervened and asked the police not to kill me.  But this police threatened to kill him and even said that he might be having a deal with us perhaps.  After that they quarreled and the policeman asked me - asked them to remove me and take me home.  And the owner of the house said I witnessing and I'm going to give report about all what I've seen. 
 That was the last time I had - them I lost consciousness.  I heard from the hospital that I lost my mind - I don't know what happened to me.  So I was in hospital for quite some time and my mind was not functioning well.  And even when my family members used to visit me they would not be allowed to talk to me.
 They couldn't speak to me - they could not speak to me because I was in a bad state.  I was in Tygerberg Hospital under the security guard and my mother asked them why I was under police guard.  They said it's because I had attempted to burn a house that belonged to the policeman.  And my mother used to be very angry about this.
 So they asked my mother to wait for me to recover, so I kept in hospital for a while and one day policemen came to the hospital.  They were coming from Paarl and they took me from Tygerberg, despite that the doctor who was in charge objected to all this.  Because I was still in a bad condition, then these policemen said they wanted me but they told lies to the doctor which means that they had intention that I was going to die on my way.  
 So we used a road that was unknown to me, we drove trough farms and these policemen who are in the front of the van were laughing at me.  And I still had stitches on my operation so they took me to a Police Station.  I then made a request that they should inform my family but they told me that my family knew that I was there.
 At night I complained that I was in pain, I wanted to go back to hospital and they said they would see.  Then the head of the Police Station asked them not to keep me there longer because he was going to be held responsible.  So I was removed in an ambulance and taken back to Tygerberg Hospital.
 And all the time I was under police guard and whenever I would want to go to the toilet I would not be allowed to.  I then asked that they should give me some crutches and then the doctors told me that it wasn't time yet.  So I had to move on a wheelchair and some other times the police would come again and take me to the Police Station.  And my mother was not aware of all this up and down and ultimately they got a lawyer that was organized by the UDF and this lawyer asked that I should be sent back to the Tygerberg Hospital and to the General Hospital as well.
 So according to my records it showed that I was in hospital for 21 days and one other time they discovered that I had 2 bullets that were imbedded in my spinal cord so I had to be operated on to take these bullets out.  But my left leg was giving trouble, I could not walk properly and them my mother - they wanted to amputate my leg but I said I didn't want them to.

WENDY ORR: I want to ask a few questions just to be clear in my mind exactly what happened that night.  You were running away and knocking at the door of a house to seek safety and then you were shot in the back.  And you then fell down and the policeman came up to you and shot again - another 4 times while you lying on the ground.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

WENDY ORR: Do you know the name of that policeman who shot you?  What is his name?

UNKNOWN: It was Abel Ntlati.

WENDY ORR: [indistinct] in Mbekweni or in Paarl?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he's still there.

WENDY ORR: Was there ever a court case brought against Abel Ntlati?

UNKNOWN: There was a court case and he said the - I was shot by the head of the detectives who was out of duty - he was off duty at the time and them it ended there.  So that lawyer asked my mother to institute a claim but my mother said she did not have the money to pay the lawyer.  It would be very expensive so some people offered some help.  
 So we went to some offices in Cape Town - we filled in some forms and they said they were going to call us after 6 months to tell us when we were going to appear in court and they said they were going to find out how much the policemen was getting as a salary but for 2 years we did not get any response.  When I asked my mother to make a follow up, my mother refused because she said they were fooling around so we just left everything like that.
 As I am growing up some people are asking me to pursue the matter.  I did go to that lawyer and that lawyer said he did not succeed and yet he spent a lot of his money because the people who had instituted the claim just left everything behind.  So he advised me to go to the lawyers for Human Rights, then I did not do that because I felt even my mother was not concerned about this whole matter.

WENDY ORR: You say that you were a student at the time that you were shot, did you go back to school afterwards?

UNKNOWN: I was discharge from hospital in March and I could still walk and my mother said they were going - not going to readmit me at school because I had gone mad at a certain stage.

WENDY ORR: Andile I can see this is very painful for you to talk about.  If you'd rather not answer the questions you can just say so.