Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-11-03

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mgidlana?

MR MGIDLANA: Judge, may I then call Guleni, Fundisele?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Guleni, which language would you prefer to use?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Xhosa Chairperson.

FUNDISELE GULENI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please be seated.

MR MGIDLANA: Thank you Judge.  Could you give us your full names and where you reside?

FUNDISELE GULENI: My name is Fundisele Guleni, I reside at Dubana, Dubana AA in Lusikisiki, the Administration Area.

CHAIRPERSON: In 1994, where were you residing?

FUNDISELE GULENI: I was residing in Port St Johns.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MGIDLANA: Were you a member of any political organisation?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Yes, that is correct.

MR MGIDLANA: Which organisation and when did you join it?

FUNDISELE GULENI: I was a member of the African National Congress and I joined in 1986.

MR MGIDLANA: You have heard the evidence of Mr Matshaya regarding the incident that took place at the Voter Education Workshop at one of the schools there, is that correct?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Yes, that is correct.

MR MGIDLANA: Could you tell us when, about your involvement in the whole incident, starting from where did you learn about the problems that were taking place at the school?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Are you talking about this day of Voter Education?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Yes, the Voter Education Day, yes.

FUNDISELE GULENI: What happened was this, as I was going to Umtata as a District Co-ordinator, to a meeting of the District Co-ordinators of the ANC, I was employed at the time, as I was hitch-hiking, I was attacked by the members and when I looked at them, to me they looked more like APLA members because they were in the company of Mr Mposelwa.  They attacked me there at Bantu, but I managed to run away, or escape.   I escaped without injuries.  As I was still taking cover, then on the bushes, next to the place where I was attacked, I was saved by two soldiers and I remember there was Hermans who was also in Port St Johns, they were coming from the meeting in Umtata.  He signalled to me, to lay down, because it looked like it was still bad for me to get out of the bushes.   The people, I heard people crying who were watching this incident.   After a long time, when I stood up, he made a signal to me to come to him and he asked me as to what was happening.  I told him that I know nothing, but I was just attacked, and at that time, I was coming out of mud and I had only one shoe and I got into his car and he took me to Mr Mfeketho who was a Chairperson of the ANC at the time, and I told him about this incident and a decision was taken for us to go and report the matter to the police station.

MR MGIDLANA: Mfeketho is spelt as M-f-e-k-e-t-h-o.  You are saying that Mr Mfeketho was the Chairperson of the ANC?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Yes, Mr Mfeketho was the Chairperson of the ANC at the time.

MR MGIDLANA: Okay, then proceed.

FUNDISELE GULENI: When we got to the police station, we reported the matter, a statement was taken.  As we were still busy there, Damdile arrived, that is the person that I saw, I realised, and he told us that they were hit with firearms at the school where the Voter Education was taking place.  After getting that report that something was taking place at the school, they decided that we should first go to the scene where I was attacked, they looked for empty cartridges.  They found one of them.  After that, we went back to town and when we got there, Mr Mfeketho took me in his car, a van, to my house or home, to change the clothes and after that I took a firearm that I had at the time.

MR MGIDLANA: What firearm was it?

FUNDISELE GULENI: An R4 rifle.   We followed the comrades who were coming from Umtata as they came to the office as we were still reporting about this story, and when Mr Mfeketho was taking me home, these comrades proceeded to the school, after getting the report.   After coming back from home, when we got to the school, there was already a firing and we shot.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you return fire?

FUNDISELE GULENI: No, not at that time, but that happened after some time.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether you injured or killed anybody with your firing?

FUNDISELE GULENI: No, I do not remember hurting anyone.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR MGIDLANA: Yes, and what happened?

FUNDISELE GULENI: During this whole process, We had taken a decision not to fire back until their ammunition was finished, and reserve ours, but after some time, it was realised that we had to take action, we had to fire back.  That is what happened and we fired back.  After some time, during the shoot-out, Ndumiso Sgotyana came who was coming from Port St Johns, he joined.   As the people were trying to remove the cars ...

MR MGIDLANA: Just a minute, Judge, may I just ask as to the spelling of Ndumisa Sgotyana?  N-d-u-m-i-s-o   S-g-o-t-y-a-n-a.  Is he one of the applicants here, this Ndumiso Sgotyana?

FUNDISELE GULENI: No.  He is not an applicant.

MR MGIDLANA: He is deceased, is that correct?

FUNDISELE GULENI: Yes, that is correct.

MR MGIDLANA: You may proceed.

FUNDISELE GULENI: When we realised that this shooting was intensifying, we had to try some means to remove the cars inside the school premises.   When Mr Mfeketho came in, the Chairperson, he tried to reverse, to put the gear on reverse before starting the car, and there was firing, but fortunately when he got in, he took cover inside the car, but the bullet missed him and his shoe was left in there, and I told the other comrade to pick up his shoe, but when he was trying to take this shoe and some bullet rang out and he later got hold of that shoe.  Mr Mfeketho was armed with a .38 firearm.  We realised that it was difficult for us to remove those cars and this car was, Mr Mfeketho's car was next to the tree.   Ndumiso's car was taken during the night and all the cars were there until the following morning.  They tried to remove Mr Matshaya from the back, that is what happened at that time.   This firing continued and Mr Matshaya decided to go back and we were left at the scene.  I was told by Damdile who found me in one of the premises there, and there was a wall made of stones in this yard where I was.  Damdile came to me and told me that it is not safe for me to be there, because I don't know what kind of a person the owner was, and he told me that the TDF soldiers were there, and he told me to step back and I did so.  We went back to the office where we found a certain Judge who was also there during the pre-election processes.  As we were still giving him the story, the Judge, that is, we heard gunfiring and we went to inspect.  As we were next to the bridge, we saw two soldiers of which we thought those soldiers were APLA soldiers, we saw them laying there, and we - there was also, the roads were barricaded by the people of Port St Johns, because they didn't want innocent people to get to the danger zone.  When we enquired about these soldiers who were laying there, we were told those people were shot at by the TDF soldiers because they came from Mposelwa's direction, going up the street, that is the story that we got from the people and they met with this soldier, the one who was shooting at Port St Johns.

MR MGIDLANA: Otherwise during the time that you were involved in the shoot-out, was there anyone who was injured or killed from the opposing side?

FUNDISELE GULENI: No.   We did not hear of anyone who was injured there.

MR MGIDLANA: Did you see anyone injured because you say you did not hear?

FUNDISELE GULENI: No, not at all.  Not at that time.   We were dealing with the people whom we could not see, therefore we could not see anyone who was hurt during that process.

MR MGIDLANA: During this shoot-out at the school, did you see - you mentioned Matshaya, did you see Mdlulwa who is also one of the applicants here?  During the shoot-out, did you see Mdlulwa, Dumisa Mdlulwa who is one of the applicants?