Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: There was a need for a treatment, because our wounds were not cleaned, we were just operated.  I could not walk properly.  I just consulted a traditional healer to help me.

ADV SANDI: Do you have requests or expectations to the Commission?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Can you please tell us briefly?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: My request to the Commission is that I am not feeling well in my health, because I was injured in that incident, especially in my leg and in my body.  I am not feeling well, I cannot do everything for myself.

ADV SANDI: Do you go to hospital or do you go to a doctor?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: Yes, I do go to a clinic sometimes.  When I feel pain I go to a clinic.  They will give me rubbing stuff and some pills, but I can feel that my body is not well.

ADV SANDI: Is there anything else you want to say?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: I have another request to the Commission.  I made this request before that I would be very glad if we can get a tombstone for our late Comrades so that if we remember them we can go to their graves.

ADV SANDI: When you are referring to your late Comrades, are you referring to the two you have mentioned or are there any other Comrades who died this way?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: No, there are no other Comrades, I am referring to the two I have mentioned.

ADV SANDI: Then we are going to hand over to Pretty.  Is that all you wanted to say?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: Yes, that is all.

ADV SANDI: Thank you very much.  Let us now go to Pretty Mkalipi.  Are you Pretty Mkalipi?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, I am Pretty Mkalipi.

ADV SANDI: You have heard when Ms Gobizembe explained what happened this day.  Were you present when this was happening?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, I was there.

ADV SANDI: Without repeating what she has already said, do you have anything else to add?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, I do have something to add according to my injuries.  She left me, I was taken by these Comrades.  They said that they were going to burn me.  Four people came and saved me, four young men came.  They said that I was too young to be burnt.  They pleaded for me and they said that I was a young girl.  These people from Port Alfred, they did not want to listen, they wanted to burn me.

ADV SANDI: The people who wanted to burn you, did they say they were Comrades?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, they were Comrades belonging to UDF.

ADV SANDI: Did you know them?

PRETTY MKALIPI: No, I did not know them.  I did not notice them, because it was dark.

ADV SANDI: Did they take you to the place where they wanted to burn you?

PRETTY MKALIPI: No, they did not take me, because the four men pleaded for my life.  As a result, the others gave up.

ADV SANDI: Why did they want to burn you?

PRETTY MKALIPI: The said that why am I a member of this organisation.

ADV SANDI: Did they tell you in which organisation they belonged to?

PRETTY MKALIPI: No, but it was clear in which organisation they belonged to.

ADV SANDI: Let us now talk about the injuries you sustained when you were attacked.

PRETTY MKALIPI: I was axed in the head five times.  I also have wounds in my leg.  They also beat me with sjamboks in my body.  I have five wounds in my head and in my leg and they beat me all over the body with sticks and sjamboks.  They were beating me while I was lying down.

ADV SANDI: Were you taken to the hospital or to a doctor?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I was taken to Settlers Hospital here in Grahamstown.  We were just operated, they were told that the, people told us there that they did not have time for us, there were many people to be attended to.

ADV SANDI: Was it yourself and Ms Gobizembe at the time?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Do you receive treatment now because of the injuries you sustained?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I use to go to the clinic to be bandaged and I also consulted a traditional healer, because my eyes were swollen.

ADV SANDI: Is there a need for you to get treatment today?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, I would like to be checked properly in my head, because I get dizzy sometimes and sometimes I just get moody, I do not want to be with people.

ADV SANDI: Do you have requests to the Commission today?

PRETTY MKALIPI: My request is that I would like the people who did this to us to come forward to the Commission.

ADV SANDI: If they can come forward to the Commission and apologise to you for what they did to you, what would you say to them?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I would forgive them if they can come forward.  I will be satisfied, because I do not know who did this to me.  If I knew the people who did these things to me, I would be satisfied.

ADV SANDI: Your request is that you want to know who they are?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, that is all.

ADV SANDI: Do you have anything else?  What are you doing now, are you working or are you a student?

PRETTY MKALIPI: No, I am not a student, I am not working.  I stopped school after I got injured.

ADV SANDI: When did you stop school?

PRETTY MKALIPI: It was in, I was in standard seven.  I went back to school when I was better, but I stopped, because when I am at school I get frequent headaches, I do not concentrate to what the teachers are saying at school.

ADV SANDI: At the time you were attacked, how old were you?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I was 15 years old.

ADV SANDI: Were you a member of this organisation?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, but we had no membership card at the time.

ADV SANDI: You just joined the organisation?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, because the organisation was just formed in Bathurst.

ADV SANDI: Who was the Chairperson of this organisation?

PRETTY MKALIPI: It was Speedo Kali together with Wanga Ntantiso.  The person who was coming from Grahamstown to Bathurst was Tima.

ADV SANDI: Who was the National President of this organisation?

PRETTY MKALIPI: It was Tima from Grahamstown.

ADV SANDI: I mean nationally.

PRETTY MKALIPI: I do not remember who was the President.

ADV SANDI: Did you know any national leaders of AZAPO at the time?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I only knew the local leaders, I did not know the national leaders.

ADV SANDI: Is that all you wanted to say?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes, that is all.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.  I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Xundu.

REV XUNDU: I have a question for you Pretty Mkalipi.  You mean that you do not have chances to go back to school because of your health?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I am not saying there are no chances, but for now I do not feel like going back to school, but I would like to further my education.

REV XUNDU: Would you like to be helped to go to doctors so that you can feel well?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Do you still have parents?

PRETTY MKALIPI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Are they working?

PRETTY MKALIPI: My mother is not working, my father is employed.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  I just wanted to make sure about this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: In this conflict between UDF and AZAPO were there victims on both sides or victims were just on the AZAPO side?  Were there any UDF members who died during that time?

PRETTY MKALIPI: No, it was just this one side.

CHAIRPERSON: Because you wanted a place where the victims can be remembered, I want, I just want to know whether the victims were supposed to be separated or are supposed to be put together.

PRETTY MKALIPI: I request the victims to be placed together.

CHAIRPERSON: How old were you at the time of the incident?

PRETTY MKALIPI: I was very young, I was about to reach 15 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntsiki Sandi.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Let us ask Ms Gobizembe.  For how long, at this time, did you join this organisation?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: This organisation was just formed, it was from January to June.

ADV SANDI: Did you join in Bathurst?

ALBERTINA NOMBOYSELA GOBIZEMBE: Yes, I joined this organisation in Bathurst.