Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1999-02-25

CHAIRPERSON: Well what do you say to that Mr Dastile?  Did the ANC leadership in Zevenfontein take over the functions of the civic, usurp the functions of the civic committee?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Chairperson, when the shacks were demolished and the civic did not react, we took it upon ourselves to try and assist this people and negotiate with the TPA.

ADV SIGODI: Just to clarify something.  The members of the civic committee, were they mostly members of the ANC, or were they mixed with the other political groups, in the civic committee?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: They were members of the ANC.

ADV SIGODI: All of them?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Yes.  Those were part of the civic, they were members of the ANC, because there were two committees.  There's one other committee that was one other committee that was called a parents' committee, which was assisting.  This committee, one other member was Binkie Moloi and Danisile.

ADV SIGODI: Who were the members of the civic committee, can you remember that?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Dan Sindani, Binkie Moloi, she was in that civic, and Simon Skosana, and he was part of the parents' committee, working hand in hand with the civic.  And one other person whose surname I have forgotten, his name is Michael.

ADV SIGODI: And were any of these members of the civic committee also members of the ANC committee, or was, did the ANC committee consist of different people?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: That committee had different people.  Those were just ordinary members from the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Thanks, Mr Claassen.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Dastile, you said that you now took over, usurped the function of the civic.  Did you now serve expressly the interests of ANC members?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: No.

MR CLAASSEN: Could you explain then, you testified yesterday that a lady, if I understood your testimony correctly, which was initially ANC came to you while you were allocating this land, and there a problem arose there, and your brother requested her to go to Mr Sithole and Zwane with the instruction that they give her land.  Could you just explain that please?

MR LAX: Sorry, the evidence wasn't that at all Mr Claassen.  His evidence was that this woman should go to Zwane and Sithole to ensure that they were satisfied that she could live there, and if that was so they would allocate her a site.  That was how it was expressed.

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon me Mr Lax, if I could just put the question then.
	Mr Dastile, could you just explain quickly why did your brother send this woman, or why was she not accommodated initially by you?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: I would just like to rectify the point that she came to me.  She went to my brother who was chairperson, and that's where she was referred to Zwane and Sithole, the reason being that it was an agreement.  There was an existing agreement between the IFP and ANC that anything that involved an IFP or ANC member had to be known to the leaders of the two parties.  Thank you.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile these people that you've now referred to, that you helped now reallocate land to, were they predominantly ANC?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Not so much that they were members of the ANC.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile I put it to you that at that stage  there was already a known animosity between the ANC and the IFP regarding this allocation of land, and the fact that this, that the ANC decided to usurp the function of the civic organisation.

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: No, that's news to me.

MR CLAASSEN: Was there no ill feeling whatsoever at that stage?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: No, there was no animosity at that point in time.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile why did you then find it necessary to, yourself and your deceased brother, according to your testimony it was decided during that day that there should be a meeting discussing some problems.

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: It is because this female went to Sithole and said something that was not correct, so that Sithole had to come and enquire himself.  That is why the meeting was necessary.

MR CLAASSEN: Yes Mr Dastile, but why?  You say she said something that was not correct.  What was supposed to be discussed at this meeting?  What was this meeting for?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: I had indicated to you that it was said to the female that she should go to Sithole and Zwane so that she could later be allocated land.  And she said Dastile said the IFP's not wanted in the area, because it was an ANC area, and this had to be rectified.  That is why there had to be a meeting.

MR CLAASSEN: And when was this meeting supposed to happen?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: We held the meeting on a Thursday, around six.

MR CLAASSEN: And this is where this particular problem was addressed?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: That is correct.  That is where we even agreed that we were going to meet on Saturday to finalise this, the conclusion or the resolution of the problem.

MR CLAASSEN: The agenda for this Saturday meeting that you're referring to, what did that consist of?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: The agenda of the Saturday meeting was that we would have to make a decision as to how we were going to, jointly with Inkatha, address the allocation of land.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile, and this meeting was also supposed to address the problem regarding the civic organisation and the representation at that stage within the ANC?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Yes, we could have discussed that as well, but at this point in time this is the only thing that we discussed.

MR CLAASSEN: But there seemed to be a bit of a problem concerning the representation?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: The one problem that we had at the time is the one problem that I had already pointed out, that.  The problem was that there were people whose shacks had been demolished and they could not be represented.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Dastile, I'd just like to continue to that, particular the next day, the Friday, and the incident regarding the tearing down of ANC election posters.  The perception from your point of Mr Sithole within the community as an induna, was he a person of seniority?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: He is the one who knows how far his position went, but we knew him as a person in charge of the IFP in case there was a problem.

MR CLAASSEN: So negotiations would always include Mr Sithole as far as you were concerned?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Most of the time.

MR CLAASSEN: And Mr Dastile, up to that stage, was Mr Sithole known as a person that peacefully tried to resolve the problems that had occurred?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Very much so.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile and if I'm not mistaken, with specific regard to that incident with the posters, Mr Sithole also stepped in and assured you that he would resolve the problem and take care of it?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Yes, he did mention that.

MR CLAASSEN: Did you, did you see this first hand?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: No, I did not see him when he solved the problem.  He discussed it with me and promised that he was going to address it.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Dastile, just going to the Saturday of this particular incident.  You testified that you were at your house about ten o'clock and you heard Zulu political songs on the soccer field.  Have you got any idea as to why this was happening?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: This was common, themselves as members or members of a political party, they would chant their song wherever they came from wherever.

MR CLAASSEN: Did you pay any heed to what was going on there?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: I started noticing this when they started uttering words when they arrived at the sports field.