Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-13

MR BENJAMIN: Could I just add one?  I think this Commission hearing has been fundamentally important for our country, because this indicates that we over and out of the danger period.
 That we are a matured democracy.  We can disagree with each other as strongly as we have disagreed during these hearings.  I think that's a sign of optimism for our country, but really I would echo the words of the Chairperson of this Commission.
 I would like to know what is the feeling of ordinary Whites in South Africa that have been the beneficiaries of Apartheid.  Are they effected?  Are they remorseful?  Are they prepared to ask the nanny that brings up the children;  where do you actually come from?  Are they prepared to go into the townships and see the humiliation of our people?  Are the people in our media prepared to accept that we're not just a bunch of blood thirsty terrorists, that we've so often been stereotyped in.  That there's an inevitability that once we have democracy and a Black lead Government and the end of White racism, that base failure, that there's incompetence, that there's inferior and lowering of standards.  
 I think that is the judgement;  is to whether those millions that had benefitted, not to deny the reality of the past, to accept it and with open arms ask to participate with us to build that new South Africa, the country that we love.
 That is the most lasting legacy we can lead.  I would really appeal that people shed their selfishness, their arrogance, their whining and winching and say to us, let's together tackle the monumental challenges that are the direct consequences of what happened here in the past and let us build together with both feet here in Africa, not one here and another in Sydney or Paris.
 That perhaps if there's just that flick of recognition of what they did to millions, a flicker of remorse and a flicker of commitment, we stand the chance of a major econom.... (indistinct).
 So that is our appeal, speakers of ex general secretary of COSATU.  I can sit here for days and tell you individual incidents, but I won't do that.  What we want to think about is the future and let's work on that future together, but on the bases of equality, on the bases of respect and dignity for even the most uneducated person, because that uneducated person is a consequent and result of the past.
 We have showed in COSATU that you can take the mine worker that Felenzimas and make him a world class leader.  That's the challenge that we extend to our compatriots in our country.

MR SHILOWA: By the way, just to say in a minute, that we're not putting forward - we have got no perception of big business and we worked for them, we know.
 So, what we're telling is not some historical analysis of the situation.  I don't know whether to use Zwele as an example, but he really does not know his date of birth.
 I ask him when are you born?  He says, I don't know, but the parents say it was about a week after the rain when they had been out in the street having been evicted from the farm.
 Now, that's a story that's real and other people have.  So it's not a perception that we have.  They're giving a perception that they were doing something, but we will not give you perception.  We can tell you our daily stories.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Komama, your colleagues and comrades, may it not be felt that just because there aren't any further questions that we don't respect your submission.
 I think what you've done today is given voice once more to the thousands of workers that have come to the Commission, because at the end of the day, although they've come forward as deponents, those people are workers.
 We've seen as we've travelled through the country, the length and breadth of the country, the destitution and the poverty that Black workers face to this day.  In 1977 in a democracy that we have in South Africa.  That continues.
 I think in the first day of our hearings, we posed that question very clearly.  Why is it that we are getting this diametrically opposed position?  On the one side from the Black working movements.  On the other side from representatives of industry.   
 I think that is challenge that has to be taken away from here today;  that the Commission has initiated, it's not the end.  I would like to bring the example of one institute, the Wits medical school for example, when they actually came to the Commission during the health sector hearing, went away and said we are going to continue this process, because it has start. 
 It's a beginning and it's been a painful process and we need to continue that process.  I hope that this will continue in all the industries and amongst the working class movement that that we've heard today.
 Thank you very very much indeed.
 Can I say that we will recommence at quarter past two.  Thank you very much.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION
ANGLO AMERICAN:  PRESENTATION

<UNKNOWN>: By way of introduction I would like to say four things.  First, at Anglo American, we all recognised that Apartheid was a (indistinct) to human dignity which effected every aspect of South African life.  Our submission outlines particular areas ...(tape ends)

<UNKNOWN>: ... acknowledge the suffering, mental as well as physical that Apartheid entailed.
 Secondly, under the leadership of Harry Oppenheimer, Anglo American opposed privately and publicly the policy of Apartheid from its very beginning on the grounds that it was both morally wrong and economically disastrous.
 In consequence we were hated by, discriminated against by and had virtually no contact with the Nationalist Party Government.  Our business did not grow as it otherwise would have done.  
 Thirdly, we do not believe that capitalism and Apartheid were or are synonymous.  We believe that in general modernisation and industrialisation (indistinct) and all, ultimately made Apartheid unsustainable.
 We believe that there's much to be proud of in Anglo's contribution to the modern industrial state from which not in considerable base, we all hope to build a better life for all in South Africa.
 In addition to the economic contribution, there's also been an educational, intellectual and developmental contribution to society.  Much of it through Chairman's fund, the Urban Foundation and more recently the joint educational trust, all of which we humbly submit as been beneficial to the country.
 Over the last five years, total contribution to these causes have exceeded one hundred million rand per annum and the total dispersed over 30 years has been an access of two billion rand in today's money.
 Fourthly, Anglo American is fundamentally committed to a post-Apartheid South Africa.  It has signalled that commitment in word by always speaking positively and confidently at home and abroad about the changing South Africa and indeed beyond its 30 billion rand in new investments in South Africa, committed over the next few years, its programmes in employment equity, small business promotion, training, education, social investment and its major contributions to Black economic empowerment, each seek to help build a flourishing market democracy.
 In closing, (indistinct) that Anglo American has some 15 000 individual registered share holders overwhelmingly South African.  In addition it has 45 000 Black and White employee share holders and there's an employee share holder scheme.
 At least a further six million South Africans, the majority of whom are Black have an indirect investment in Anglo American, whether pension, provident fund, unit trust and other investment.
 Now I will ask Bobby Godsell to take you through the submission.