Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-14

MR WILLS: Just to clear up the issue that the Committee member raised, Mr Mkhize.  There were the two members you had mentioned who were at eSikhawini police station, to your knowledge were there other Caprivians at these other police stations, for example at Sundumbili or at Mandeni and at the other police stations that you mentioned, to your knowledge?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, the Caprivians I knew them very well because we were trained together at Caprivi, but at the time they were now with the Police as I was with the Police as well.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  You then returned to, or after this meeting you returned to eSikhawini as you mentioned in paragraph 29 of your affidavit, page 88 of the record, and you liaised with the local leadership there, who confirmed with you that they had been aware of the fact that this structure was going to be set up, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You then were called to go back to Ulundi where you met with Major Langeni and he referred you to a certain person by the name of Mr Thomas Buthelezi where you went to get some equipment.  Can you just explain what equipment that was?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.  Mr Thomas Buthelezi used to reside at Port Dunfort, that is at the time.  There was a camp there, actually it is just a big house that had been bought by the IFP and the house was to be used by the Caprivians.
	Thomas Buthelezi used to reside in the very same house, guarding certain movement properties, he is actually the one to whom I was referred to go and take arms.  That I did.  I went to fetch the arms, things like bullets and guns.

MR WILLS: Yes, and you have indicated there that you picked up a stainless steel shotgun without a serial number on it, a 12 pump action and then also an AK47 with ammunition for both of those weapons, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: I just want you to refer briefly, or to cast your mind back to the issue of the Inkatha Youth that you mentioned earlier, that is Mlambo, Mbuyasi and Mkanlipo Matenywa.
	You indicated that they were already conducting violent operations at that stage.  The question I want answered is at that stage you obviously had nothing to do with the operations up until this meeting in Ulundi in 1991, that although they were already operating at that stage, you had nothing to do with them, up until that point in time?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: At the time they were working, I was just doing my ordinary Police work like every other Policeman.  I was not involved in violence and politics.

MR WILLS: Yes, and after this meeting you initially told them of your meeting in Ulundi and you allowed them to utilise the weapons that you had got from Buthelezi, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: But you weren't involved in the planning of the operations, you were just supplying them with arms?  Is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes.  I just gave them what help I had already received from Fort Dunfort, but I was not yet involved in their attack activities, I was not directly involved, but yes, indeed, I did assist them by giving them guns and bullets.
	I would follow up as to how the operation was going.

MR WILLS: I want you to now briefly explain to the Committee about how it came about that you recruited Mr Mbambo.

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: As I have already explained that I had already been granted authority to formulate the structure that I was going to use, Mbambo came to eSikhawini after having completed his training in 1991 in December.
	I was not seeing him for the first time when he arrived at eSikhawini, I had known him before.  I used to see him in the company of Siphiwe Mbuyasi.  They were very close friends.
	Siphiwe is well known in Durban as a well known person, a member of Inkatha and he was known to be strongly against the ANC.  Those are things that were even publicised.
	There was also rumour to the effect that he is very close to the Inkatha President.  On seeing him being pushed to eSikhawini I then noticed that he is the same person who is always in the company of Siphiwe.  I thought that there might be certain political things that he is aware of because at the time we used to call him our oxen, so to speak.
	I trusted that if I approached him, I would be able to use him.  He was physically fit and he used to exercise quite a lot, and he was not drinking any alcohol.  He did not often associate with women and that made me conclude that I could use him in the operations.
	I started one step at a time, asking him when last he saw Siphiwe and he would respond, not knowing what my intention was.  I would ask him how Siphiwe was doing in Durban and he finally indicated without realising that he is indeed a staunch Inkatha member.
	One day I told him that I would visit him at J2 where he was residing, and that on its own made me realise that he was indeed a strong member of Inkatha, because Mbambo used to reside freely in that area because the very same boys that I was talking about, were very strong in the area.
	Mbambo indeed agreed that I should come and speak to Siphiwe, speak to him.  I went to see him and I indicated to him that it is important that we discussed these things.  He indicated to me that he knew that there were Israels, he would refer to the Caprivians as Israels.
	He knew that there were Israels, but his problem is that he didn't know who they were, he cannot identify them.  But he has knowledge about their existence and I indicated to him and I am one of the Israels.
	I told him this is how I want us to work.  Even though he started doubting and hesitantly and he wanted to ensure that what I intended doing, had the blessing of authorities.  I told him that if I were to disclose authorities to you, you should know that there is no retreat, because if you were to retreat, that will be the end of you.
	You should involve yourself knowing exactly what is going to happen and one day we arranged, I spoke, telephoned Captain Langeni, indicating to him that I have already roped in someone whom I wanted, he should meet.
	Working with Mbambo would not be the same as working with Mdwane.  Mbambo was a well trained, professional Policeman and he was quite mature.  He wanted to know about his future in this whole thing, it would not be the same as working with these other people whom I thought I would work with.
	Therefore it became necessary that I arrange with Captain Langeni to bring Mbambo along, and Captain Langeni agreed and that we did with Mbambo.  Mr Luthuli and M.Z. Khumalo were present when I introduced Mbambo.  Prince Gideon Zulu himself was present.
	I told them that Mbambo is very close to the other one.

MR WILLS: The persons you have mentioned, accepted Mr Mbambo as part of this hit squad operation, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: They accepted him without reservation and I also promised, I knew that Mbambo had only received Police training and I indicated to them that I was going to train him, show him some things to prepare him so that he could be capable to kill.

MR WILLS: Yes, and you did in fact give him certain training, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes.  We often used to do certain things, we would even go to the beach at Port Dunfort, teaching him many things.

MR WILLS: Yes, but this was training specifically in the use of certain weapons, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You also received the assistance of other persons to help you with this hit squad.  Can you tell the Committee who those people were?