Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   No, it was the very first time that he had gone until late.  The hours went by, nine and 10.  He was nowhere to be seen.  I started wondering as to what was happening, and at 8 o'clock I heard some gunfire further down the street.  Then I just waited.  I thought maybe even other people would come and say somebody has been injured, or they could shed light as to what was happening outside.  It was morning the following day, eight the following day in the morning.  A little girl came to my place.  She asked me whether I had heard that Elvis had died.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was this girl's name?

WITNESS:   The girl's name was Duduzile Ngcobo.  And I asked, "Has he died?"  I just couldn't believe it, and I asked what had happened.  They told me he had been killed by police.  My neighbours were so scared to come out of their houses because the policemen were now surrounding my house and they were having guns with them, and they said he had been killed by white policemen.  Then we got him at Mandla Place.  Now I asked myself as to how he got to Mandla Place, because he did not go to Sickland, he just went to Mandla Place, and everything is supposed to pass by Sickland before it goes to Mandla Place.  They said they had seen a car taking the corpse from where it was.  I was very confused.  I thought I was losing my mind.  I was confused, I had a high blood attack, I had a dizzy spell, I couldn't see.  I was thinking of my child, my grandson, who was working for me, and he was my sole breadwinner, and now he had been killed by policemen from Pretoria.  There was a case that was opened.  I told them that I did not even want to be part of it.  It was discovered that he had been killed by Pretoria police.  They said they arrested him with certain weapons, but I asked them as to how could he possess weapons when he could hardly handle a knife.  They brought some weapons with them which they said they found from him.

KHOZA MGOJO: What had happened in that area of Sinathi before they were killed?

WITNESS:   Nothing was happening.  There was a tent that was erected, and the police went into the tent.  There was another house that had a shebeen, and they looked - the police looked at the people in the shebeen there.  And the children related the story that the police came to look again and they were told to leave the place, and the children asked as to what had they done that made them deserve to be chased away.  Then the children went away.  Just as they were going out they saw big luminous torches.  As we were going the police kept on following us with their torches.  We tried to walk at a faster pace but they kept on following us.  Just as we were getting to another place the policemen arrested one.  They started shooting.  They shot one who was wearing a black coat, and that was Elvis.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was there any problem between the comrades and the police before Elvis' death?

WITNESS:   I know absolutely nothing.  I don't know what had taken place before that.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know if Elvis was known to be a comrade by the police?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  Maybe they had told the police that Elvis was a comrade, but I have absolutely no knowledge.

KHOZA MGOJO: What about the other ones, what happened to them?

WITNESS:   They hid, they jumped fences, they went into people's houses, some of them ran away.  I believe it was by the power of the Almighty that they were saved.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was there any case?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: What happened?

WITNESS:   I don't know what happened, but there was a case.  I don't even know which court that was because I just didn't want to have anything to do with the police and cases.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, as an elderly person we understand that Elvis was your breadwinner, was your only hope.  Now how does this affect you in life?

WITNESS:   I am sick.  I have got high blood pressure.  I can't see properly, I am partially blind, and I have been harassed emotionally

KHOZA MGOJO: Who is working?

WITNESS:   It's my other son.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you treating this high blood pressure?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am, at Edendale Hospital.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you paying?

WITNESS:   No, I do pay.

KHOZA MGOJO: Let me ask you a little question.  What would you wish the Commission to do for you?  What sort of help would you like the Commission to do for you?

WITNESS:   I cannot say because I don't know.  It's really all in the power of the Almighty.  I can't choose what sort of help I need.  I will take whatever help that I get.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there any expectation that you have from the Commission?

WITNESS:   I think whatever is being done I will just accept it, whatever help I can get.  I cannot choose.

KHOZA MGOJO: We've heard about your trauma, and whatever expectations you have we will send recommendations to the President, who will then make a final decision as to how to help you.  Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible) ... pressure which you are taking treatment for at Edendale Hospital, when last did you go to the Edendale Hospital?

WITNESS:   I went there on Wednesday, last Wednesday.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you still pay when you go to the hospital, because there's a new law that certain people will be attended to free of charge?

WITNESS:   I pay R7,00.  I pay R7,00 to get attended to.  I am still paying.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.  Mrs Gwala, I have one question.  Here there's Bhekani Gwala as one of the people who can help us with giving testimony as to the investigation.  Where can we get this person?

WITNESS:   Bhekani Gwala is at J Section.

KHOZA MGOJO: Can you just explain to us what is he?  What relation is he to you?

WITNESS:   No, he's just a policeman.   He is one of the people who knows as to what happened on that particular day?   ---   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

MR LAX: Mrs Gwala, somebody has obviously told you the story of what happened that night, is that correct?  Do you follow the ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   I was told by the people who were with my son - my grandson just before he died.  I was told by the people who were with him just before he died.

MR LAX: Would you be able to tell us who they are after you've given your evidence, these young people?

WITNESS:   I forget their names, but one of them was from the Hlongwa family and the other one was from the Nzame family.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... where those families were from, which area?

WITNESS:   They are staying at the same area with me.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... to find them?

WITNESS:   Yes, we can get them, but they are working, but they stay in the same area.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Gwala, thank you very much for coming in and for being so patient, waiting so long to tell us your story today.  We have been all around this province and in the Free State and we've heard many, many stories like yours, many sad stories from people who have lost their children or their loved ones, their husbands, their grandchildren, and that is a very sad thing.  It's also very sad to hear from so many people like yourself that their loved ones were shot by the police, people who should have been trained and paid to protect and preserve the citizens and the laws of this country.  And we hope, as I have said before, that we have now reached ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Even to bury my child I was helped by Mr Msimango to bury him because I could not afford to bury him.  I did not have any money because he was my breadwinner.

MR LYSTER: Well, it must be also comforting for you to know that there are people who are prepared to help you in your time of need.  So as my colleague, Dr Mgojo, has said, we will make recommendations to the State President and to Parliament as to how we think people like you should be assisted, and we have every confidence that the President will set in motion schemes and projects to help people like yourself.