Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-11-19

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: (Still under oath).

CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, there is one point I would like to raise with you before we commence and that is the question of this video and the alleged statement about a Tokarev pistol or machine gun.  If anything is to be made of it, it seems to me it would be desirable that an attempt should be made either to get the evidence of the person alleged to have been in possession of it or to get other policemen to identify the policeman in the video who are speaking about, so we can get their direct evidence as to what they were talking about, rather than asking us to draw inferences from something that appears on a video at a time that is, by no means, certain.
	You will all recollect, at least my recollect is that Mr Bellingan's evidence on this aspect was that he knew nothing the video and was not prepared to comment or commit itself which, I think, he is entitled to do, but if you do want to rely on something there, I think we should have, get the police to produce the gentleman, I forget his name for the moment, but his name was given and either have him here or one of the other people who appear in the video.  
	The second point which I would invite your comments on, and that is that if Mr Mbane is to give evidence and is questioned, it would be desirable that we should have the whole of the statement he made, not an edited version.  At the moment paragraphs 36 to 64 are missing from the statement, which may well effect his credibility and it may well be something that people wish to question him about.  So, I think that if he is to be called we would like to have the whole of it.  Do you agree, gentlemen?

MR BOOYENS: Most certainly, M'Lord.  Your Lordship would recall that I, in fact, mentioned the fact of the, of his statement right at the outset of the matter.  As far as the name that your Lordship is looking for, the name I recall is Theron.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Yes, Pieter Theron.

MR BOOYENS: Pieter Theron.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Will that be Trompie, Mr ...?

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.
	I think the question of the affidavit question you raised at the beginning too falls away if he is going to give evidence.

MR BOOYENS: Certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: (...Indistinct) his evidence we will rely on, but his statement was, his witness statement, as it will be then, will still be relevant.

MR BOOYENS: I agree M'Lord.

CHAIRPERSON: ... this morning, are you ready now, Ms Patel?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS PATEL

MS PATEL: I am, thank you, honourable Chairperson.
	Good morning Mr Bellingan.  I realise you have been cross-examined extensively.  I will try to keep it to the point and not keep you too long, all right.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Thank you very much.

MS PATEL: Perhaps, just a bit of general background information regarding the funding of this operation.  Could you perhaps explain, generally, how an operation of this nature is funded, who would authorise those funds, what would the motivation for those funds be, is it in writing?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Mr Chairman, this operation obtained funds from two sources, if I understand the question correctly.  Firstly, there was the open budget, the police budget, and from that the vehicles and the travelling allowances were paid.  That was paid from an open budget, there was no direct confidentiality regarding that.  Should a secret fund be used, like in this instance, the funds would come from the secret fund and there were certain written down instruction which we, as group leaders, had to follow and send through the channels to Colonel de Kock at the top.  This was regarding this vehicle and its fuel.
	The answer she wants regarding the claims, regarding the head-money, that was according to certain instructions by the security branch.  Head-money would be paid from a secret funds to the so-called askaris and then the Black members being involved in certain operation and the onus would rest on the section head to determine who would receive which monies.  That money would come from the secret fund and the Kombi's money came from the secret fund.  If I have taken, would send them to certain bars or certain hotels, smuggling hotels, I would obtain money from the secret fund.  They would sign receipts and they would account for what they have done and I would report back to Colonel de Kock.  There were certain written down instructions.  I do not have any documents regarding that, but I hope I have answered your question.  
	The askaris would be paid, they were registered as police sources and later on when they became Constables they would receive money from the open budget.  His salary would  come from the open budget, like mine also. I hope I have answered that correctly and sufficiently.

MS PATEL: Could you, perhaps, explain, if you can remember, what motivation, exactly, was given for the funds?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Mr Chairman, it depends on what operation it was.  For instance, like the operation in Cape Town, you would use the reference and the motivation, namely combatting terrorism.  It had a certain reference number referring to a specific region and it would differ from region to region.

MS PATEL: So, in this case, would specific information have been noted down as to the fact that two specific askaris were used, that they were being infiltrated, the monies that was spent regarding their infiltration itself?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: That is correct.  In my report, as group leader, I would refer to the two sources and give fictitious names.  We did that, because we did not know who at security head office was responsible for leaks.  We would use fictitious names to protect their lives and to keep them out of danger.

MS PATEL: Also to motivate for further funds you would have to give a progress report, not so?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Yes, that is understandable.  I would use a certain amount, say for example, R500,00, R1 000,00 or
R2 000,00 and should my sources become depleted, I would write another report and a motivation to de Kock regarding more money and he will ask certain questions, whether I would, why I need any more money.  We had, for example, pay for fuel, etcetera and I had to motivate should I require any more funds.

MS PATEL: All right and the motivation for weapons that may have been used?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: That was separate from the secret funds.  It had no relationship to that.  Previously in my evidence I said that I wrote a letter of motivation and attached a telex from Cape Town.  He would approve that, I would go to Schoon, he would peruse that, he would give his approval, I would go to Drury and then draw the weapons from there, see whether it was in a working condition, I would note that in the register.

MS PATEL: Supposing your infiltrators needed more weapons or ammunition, would the motivation still have to go through to Vlakplaas or would it be done regionally?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: No, it would have gone to Vlakplaas.  Say, for arguments sake, I have asked 60 rounds of ammunition and I would only give them 35 and keep 15 back, should ammunition get lost and should I require any more, I would ask headquarters, but this was not necessary in this instance.

MS PATEL: All right.  Just in terms of the motivation for further funds, if I can refer you to the "kripto berig" that was sent on the fourth of the third, details are set out extensively as to the alleged activities of the deceased.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Just one second, Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Which one?

MS PATEL: Dated the fourth of the third.

CHAIRPERSON: That is Exhibit C.

MR BOOYENS: Just to make sure, is that the one headed "Berig nommer 0403/86" and then "Terrorist Incident, Guguletu, Cape Town"?  Is that the one my learned friend is referring to?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, refer to it another way.  Has it got page 439 written in the top corner?  Is that the page you are referring to?

SISI KHAMPEPE: It is 441.

MS PATEL: No, it is 441.