Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

WITNESS:   Constable Zwayi is a policeman.  He's still there in Masilo.  Then this Kabayi, Constable Kabayi, is no more there.  He's at Ladybrand now.  He has been transferred to Ladybrand Police Station.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  Then you said you were assaulted.  You suffered some injuries.  What type of injuries did you suffer?

WITNESS:   After I was being assaulted, I was stabbed with a panga.  At that time when I was fighting with them, they tried to hit me with a van so I fell on top of the van and then fell down and my back has been injured.

PROF MAGWAZA: Then you continue to say your car was banged by Dibuka.  Your car was banged by Dibuka.

WITNESS:   That's true.

PROF MAGWAZA: Who gave you that information - who told you?  If you were told by Makatha and Moredi that your car was banged by Dibuka.  Who is Makatha and Moredi?

WITNESS:   Those are ANC members.  Steven Makatha is an ANC member.  Moroso Moredi is an ANC member.

PROF MAGWAZA: You know where they stay?

WITNESS:   They're still staying at Masilo.

PROF MAGWAZA: Did you report - did you have a court case on this?  Was there a court case?

WITNESS:   Not at all.  When I went - the CIDs whom I contacted then, they told me there's nothing they can do.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  Well, I think you have given us quite a very  /detailed

PROF MAGWAZA: detailed story or information about what happened to you and I notice here as well that you talk about compensation for your physical injuries.  To what extent did the assault affect your hand because you're talking about - you give the impression that probably you are no longer the same person after this assault.

WITNESS:   That's true because I have nervous problem and my left hand is not able to function well.

PROF MAGWAZA: Are you getting any treatment?

WITNESS:   Yes, I went to doctors and I'm even tired now.

PROF MAGWAZA: It's not helping?

WITNESS:   It doesn't help at all.  I trust only in God.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  Thank you very much Mr Nkate and we have noted whatever you have said and if you are angry, sometimes it's understood when people are angry that sometimes we have to reach a point where we let go our anger but your anger is well understood.  And as we have already stated that whatever information you have given us, we have noted everything and that our role here is to collect all this information, convey it to the State President who will look at all the similar cases and then he will have to make recommendations.  Again I would like to conclude by saying that I think you are a very powerful person and you still come across as a very powerful person so I appreciate that you have had the strength irrespective of all what has happened to you.  Okay, thank you very much.

WITNESS:   I also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Isiah, for telling your story of your suffering and there's no word which has edified me as the last word when you say that although the doctors have not helped you, you really trust in God.  That  means that you still have that humanity in you in spite of all these tortures and what not because once we cannot even trust our Maker Almighty then it would mean that there is something severely wrong with us.  I'm pleased that at least there's that element in you which has not been destroyed, that one of trusting in your God.  As the fellow colleague has just said, we shall follow your story.  There are people here who failed to do their duties like Constable Kabayi who refused to take the statement.  He showed some prejudice and I don't believe that a policeman, who has to save the community, must act that way.  And of course there is Theunissen station commander Van Rooyen who was threatening to arrest you.  Those things will be followed up to see why those things did happen.  And as the fellow colleague has just said that we have noted your concerns and requests, we shall pass them - we have no power to give anything but we'll pass the recommendation to the government.  Although you say that the doctors have not helped you but I think you are very disturbed emotionally.  You'd need a kind of counselling by a psychologist.  It would really advise you - one can detect in you some kind of anger which is still there.  You need to be helped to go through this process of anger and to get ... (inaudible) ... because if it remains with you, it is also going to destroy you as a person.  So we have got the facilities here which we've said, the people to conduct ... (inaudible) ... so that you could approach them so that you can take you to that channel.  One is just sitting next to you there.  They are working in this region as the Truth Commission.   Anyway, thank you for coming here.  We appreciate it very much.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   I also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Now we take the last one.  That is Thashima Gloria Dippa.  This is the last one.   I greet you.  Who is Thashima here among you.

MRS DIPPA: I am Thashima, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And the one who is accompanying you, who is she?

MRS DIPPA: This is my eldest daughter.

CHAIRPERSON: She's just accompanying you or she's also going to say something?

MRS DIPPA: She's accompanying me.  She would like to say a word.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, then it means - what is her name for our records.

MRS DIPPA: She is Puleng.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, then it means that both of you have to take an oath.  Thashima can you stand up and take an oath that what you're going to say here is the truth.  (Mrs Dippa takes the oath)  Puleng, can you also take an oath.  (Miss Dippa takes the oath)  Thank you.  I'm going to guide you to be closer to your statement.  I'm going to channel you through.  I'll be using some questions in some instances because the day is old, the day is really old, so that we can finish in time.

THASHIMA GLORIA DIPPA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Me Thashima, can you just give us just a picture of your family?  Do you have the husband?  Where is he?  How many children do you have, etcetera?

WITNESS:  I'm a divorcee.  I have six children.  Three of them passed away including one I'm going to tell you about. Were the other two sick apart from this one who passed away?   ---   Two of them were sick and they passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: And the remaining three can you tell us their ages?

WITNESS:   The one sitting next to me is 30 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: That is Puleng?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is Puleng.  The second one comes after Puleng, that's the one that is bringing me here today and the third-born was born in 1969.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

WITNESS:   It's Puleng and the one that passed away and I have three children that are still alive and my grandchild.  Puleng is 30 years, Tarantuleng is 22 and Mozo is 20 years old and Costa is 10 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any children who are still in school?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How many are they?

WITNESS:   It's Mozo.  Mozo is at Welkom College and the grandchild that I've just told you about is at Tluluhelong in Tabong and the other one who is 22 years old is working.  He got employment last month.

CHAIRPERSON: Did your husband divorce you after the death of your son or before?

WITNESS:   It was before the death of my son.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Can we now come next to the story?  I'm going to lead you by questions so that we don't take much time.  Is it true that Kenneth fled the country in June 1986?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it true that by that time he was a Form 3 student at Lebonang High School?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   /He was

CHAIRPERSON: He was a member of the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: What about the other members of your family?  Did they belong to any political organisation, including yourself?

WITNESS:   I was in the ANC and the rest of my family.