Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I was from Khumalo section.

UNKNOWN: Where did you stay?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I left Khumalo where I was residing, went across to Moleleki, Extension 2.

UNKNOWN: Where did you stay in Moleleki?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Oh, sorry, I resided in block F.

UNKNOWN: Extension 2?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Were you working at that time?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: No.

UNKNOWN: In the SDU, were you an ordinary patroller, or an operator?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I was a patroller.

UNKNOWN: During the capturing and killing of the victims, did you participate in the rounding up of them?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Tell us, how did it come about that you went to round them up?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: First of all, as there was this corpse, Bulelwa's corpse that we were watching over, it so happened that there were gunshots and there was this shack, Blanko's shack, that was set alight.   Yes, we were watching over Bulelwa's body.  They started firing shots and we tried to rush to the scene to see what was happening and when we arrived there, Blanko's shack was on fire and Blanko himself had been burnt inside.   We then stayed on watching over the fire until such time that the fire was extinguished.   After that, then that is Sugar, his nickname is Vembe, he is the one who discussed with Mchebe, saying that now that these people who created the problem have been seen, they are known, Oscar saw them, these people should therefore be rounded up.   No, when we went down from Blanko's place, we were the whole group, but I stopped at Bulelwa's place.

UNKNOWN: Did you stay at Bulelwa's corpse until (indistinct)?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, I stayed there and they proceeded.   People were going to be rounded up.

UNKNOWN: (Indistinct), just listen, listen, did you remain at Bulelwa's body until the rest of the victims were brought into the shack?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, I stayed there until Oscar and Mneba Sonti came back.   I cannot remember the others, because there were many of them, they brought these two boys, young boys, and the other one was carrying a bottle with a petrol and this cigarette carton.   From there on, an instruction was issued that others should be rounded up.   At that time, I was not there when they were taken into the shack, but I was there when they were brought, presented before the community, and thereafter it was indicated that they should round others up.   I don't know exactly who issued this order, but when we left the shack after locking them in, they parted and they said they were going to round up others.   By this time the instruction had been given out.

UNKNOWN: Eventually they were all brought together and put in a shack, is that so?   Did you ...(intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Answer the question first.

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Could you please repeat the question.

UNKNOWN: You say that an instruction was issued that the others must be brought to the shacks as well?   You had to go and look for the others?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Did you go out to look for the others?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, I followed suit when they went for the second time to round the rest up.   We went on until we arrived at C, we couldn't find them, went to A and at A we found Tusanang.   We found Tusanang and we found him there, we took Tusanang along until we went to block D where we found this young boy with the light complexion, I think Jamlang is his name.   I did not know his name until today.  The one that's sitting down.   We then took them to the others who had been already rounded out when I was still there at the corpse, that is Bulelwa's corpse, Bulelwa's corpse.   From there on, it was now light.   My problem then was that I had taken my stuff, I was tired of staying the whole night outside.   It was now light, I decided to dodge, went to my place, because it was not far away from where Bulelwa was and I went to my place to rest.

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible)?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: To where the people were killed?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: It was in the morning, I was going to rest, it was now light outside.   I did go to the veld, because on waking up, it was already daylight when we took them to the veld, it may have been in the morning, but yes, the sun had risen.   I joined them when they had gathered everybody else, thereafter the commander instructed that they be taken to the veld.

UNKNOWN: What made you, well as I understand your evidence, you'd been drinking the previous day and you were tired and that's why you slip away into your house?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And did you sleep at home?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I did not leave at night, I left in the morning when we came back.   I slept, it may have been three hours, from around six or seven, I'm not sure.

UNKNOWN: What made you to go back to them, to go to the veld?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I'm part of the SDU and therefore it was a matter of must, that after having seen what was happening, I too had to be there.

UNKNOWN: How did you know that they went to the veld, where did you get that information from?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: They were just about to leave for the veld when I arrived.

UNKNOWN: Where were they?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: They were at the shack.   Fortunately, when I arrived there, I asked where they were, and I was told they were still at the shack.   That is where I went, and shortly thereafter an order was issued that they should be taken to the veld.

MR MALAN: Could I just make sure, this shack, was it the first shack or the next shack right at the veld?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: This is the second shack, the one nearest to the veld.

MR MALAN: The first shack, was that not the shack where Bulelwa's corpse was found?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: The second shack was only nearer to Bulelwa's corpse.

UNKNOWN: Which shack was nearer to Bulelwa's corpse?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: The first shack.

MR MALAN: When you left early that morning, the victims were still in the first shack?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, I left them in the first shack.

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible)?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And an order was issued that they should be taken away.   Continue from there.

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: They were taken out of the shack and we escorted them.  I too was escorting them.   We escorted them until we arrived at the veld.   The commander then instructed them to sit down and they had their backs against us at the time.   From then on, he fired shots, that is Mchebe Dondolo, he fired using his 9mm, he fired about four shots.   From then on, the others carrying AK47's also started shooting.   Myself, with my axe, I'd say after the others had fired and had run out of bullets, Michael in particular, Rooivark, some people were still moving, that is the ones who were shot.   Mchebe then instructed that we should finish them off, and I hit the ones who were still moving, finishing them off.

UNKNOWN: Did you finish off any person, you?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I was only concentrating on those who were still moving, because the others had already been shot and they were not moving anymore.

UNKNOWN: After (indistinct), what happened?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: We then proceeded going back to the township.  On going up back to the township, we took the main road, the main tarred road that divides F and E.   We walked up to the rank, myself with my neighbour, the deceased one, we were further down, and there was a route that goes down to her place, I went to my place and parted ways with them at the corner.

UNKNOWN: Why did you participate in the killing of these people?