Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-25

MR SIBANYONI: As we are told that there are many people staying at the hostel is it possible that maybe Nosenga was also there but because of the fact that there were many people it was possible that you could not have identified him or saw him?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I mentioned earlier on that I knew all the people who came from the township, we were not many.

MR SIBANYONI: How many men stayed at the hostel during June 1992, approximately?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Between 300 and 400, this was a massive hostel.

MR SIBANYONI: And you knew each and everyone of those people?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Sigodi?

ADV SIGODI: On the day after the attack when you were told that you must burn the goods, were the police present at the hostel?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: On the 18th?

ADV SIGODI: Yes.

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: There were policemen but they were not allowed to get into the hostel they were outside.

ADV SIGODI: In other words they couldn't have heard the instruction to burn the goods, is that what you are saying?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: They did not hear that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Lax?

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.
	You said that you couldn't say whether Themba Khosa had said anything about destroying evidence because you came late to a meeting.  Do you remember that?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I remember.

MR LAX: Which meeting did you come late to?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: It is the meeting of the 18th June.

MR LAX: When you came into the meeting was he already talking?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Correct.

MR LAX: And who spoke after him?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: It was Mr Mkhize.

MR LAX: So after he had told you to cooperate with the police Mkhize then said you must burn all these items?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR LAX: And he was present when that was said?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR LAX: Now what was the meeting on the Sunday about?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Give me the date for that Sunday please?

MR LAX: The attack was on the Wednesday which was the 17th so the Sunday would be the 14th and in reply to Mr Berger's questions you indicated you were present at that meeting but you couldn't remember what Themba Khosa said at that meeting.  Do you remember now?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes I remember.

MR LAX: Now what I'm asking you is what was that meeting called for, why was that meeting called?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: At that meeting Mr Khosa was addressing the people in Zulu and I am not that good in Zulu.  Mr Mkhize addressed us on the issue of going to Boipatong.

MR LAX: So at that meeting on the 14th you now knew you were going to Boipatong but you didn't know when you would go to Boipatong?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: We were told about an attack but when we were not told.

MR LAX: Yes, but you were told now where the attack was going to be?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Are you referring to the address by Mr Mkhize?
Mr Mkhize said we would attack and we must be ready but he did not tell us when.

MR LAX: We are talking about the meeting on the Sunday, not the meeting on the 10th.  You said that on the meeting of the 10th Buthelezi told you about getting ready for an attack.  We're now talking about the Sunday which is four days later.

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That's not Buthelezi, it's Mkhize.

MR LAX: I didn't say anything about Buthelezi.  I beg your pardon, I'm sorry, I mean Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mkwanazi you told us that you were present at a meeting that was on a Sunday?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You say at that meeting Mkhize talked about - is that the meeting at which Mkhize talked about the attack on Boipatong?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR LAX: So the point I was putting to you was on the Sunday you now knew that Boipatong was the place you were going to attack?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR LAX: Because your previous evidence said to us that until the 17th you didn't know where, which place you were going to attack or when?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes.

MR LAX: Well just explain to us why you made a mistake?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Mr Mkhize addressed us and he told us that we should be ready for an attack because we were being killed as members of the IFP.  He said we should be in a position to go and revenge in other words attack.  He said we were being burned, we were being killed all the time.  He said we should go into Boipatong and teach the people a lesson, a lesson that killing a person is not a child's play, we are also in a position to do the same.

MR LAX: And that was at the Sunday meeting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes.

MR LAX: Just one last thing, Mr Mazibuko in his evidence  says he saw Mr Mabote shooting with a small gun not an AK47.  Are you sure it was an AK47?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I am sure he had an AK47 and a shotgun on that day, in his possession he had an AK47.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Anything arising from that?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.
	The meeting of the 10th you testified about already, do you know what day of the week that was?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember.

MR STRYDOM: Now the meeting of the 10th when Mr Mkhize said that you must be ready for attack but he didn't give the dates or the place ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, is this going to take us any further?  I mean the man's - his evidence is on record.

MR STRYDOM: I just want to establish if Mr Khosa was present at that meeting.  The meeting of the 10th, was Mr Khosa there or not?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

MS PRETORIUS: Nothing further.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MR DA SILVA: I don't have any questions.

MS TANZER: None.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?   Mr Malindi?   Yes Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mkwanazi you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: The time now Mr Strydom is about ten past 1, shall we start with your next witness at 2 when we resume?

MR STRYDOM: That will be convenient.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you indicate to us who will be the next witness?

MR STRYDOM: Moses Mthembu.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  We will rise, we will come back at 2 o'clock.