Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-05-25

CHAIRPERSON: You were asked about before you saw that truck there, were you concentrating on that road or were you concentrating on your work?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I was concentrating on my work.

MR SANDI: In other words, cars going up and down that road were none of your business as far as you were concerned?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Correct.

MR SANDI: Thank you, Mr Makase.

MR LAX: Just one question, Mr Makase, what, in the light of your last answer, what drew your attention to the truck in the first place?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: It was because of the shots in the forest.

MR LAX: So you heard shots, you looked up from your work and you noticed - you heard shots, you looked up and then you noticed that the truck was there, is what you're telling us?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR LAX: And then that truck then drove past you where you were working?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR LAX: Thank you, chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chair, I need just to clarify that last aspect.   Mr Makase, in your statement you indicated that before the shots were heard, you - and your evidence about the two kilometres, you said before the shots were heard, you saw the truck driving on a gravel road, from the direction of Umtata towards Nqobo, and you identified the truck as "the one I used to see being driven by a white man", and that this truck stopped on the road, in your statement you said "about a kilometre away from me".   Can you maybe just explain that in the light of your evidence now, what did you mean by that?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I'm approximating the distance.

MR PRIOR: Yes, but the question that the committee put to you now was, were you aware of the truck before the shots were fired, did you see it before you heard the shots fired, or did you only become aware of the truck after you heard shots?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I saw a truck that came and thereafter shots rang out and then it passed me.

MR PRIOR: Yes, that's how I understood your evidence, but what the committee, Mr Lax asked you now, seemed to create the impression that you only became aware of the truck after... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: It didn't create the impression, Mr Prior, it's precisely what he said.

MR PRIOR: But, Mr Chairman... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) he said it.

MR PRIOR: But, Mr Chairman, with respect... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: His evidence in chief was to confirm his statement.   You cannot change his evidence, he said precisely to Mr Lax that it was the shots that drew his attention to the truck.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, with respect, it's obvious that he may not have followed that question precisely, because his evidence now, a short while ago, clearly confirms his evidence in chief, and I think in fairness to the witness, I mean certainly one can't make the suggestion that he's come here to perjure himself, with respect, he has no interest in this matter whatsoever.

CHAIRPERSON: What I objected to was, you said it gave the impression, it wasn't an impression, it was a clear statement by him, Mr Prior.

MR PRIOR: Yes, it was a statement, with respect, but it created the impression, certainly in my mind, that he hadn't seen the truck before he heard the shots, and I want the witness maybe just to have an opportunity to clarify that position, but he's indicated in re-examination that he saw the truck before he heard the shots.   Mr Makase, you indicated that the brickyard is situated near the river, which is lower down from the position where you saw the truck stop in the forest.   Apart from, if one looks in that direction what draws your attention to a vehicle coming on that road in the direction of the brickyard?    Can one hear anything?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: The reason for me to look on is because whatever appears on that road, you can see, because it's higher up.

MR PRIOR: And where you were working in the brickyard, in which direction are you looking at, or facing, when you're doing your work, are you facing away from the road or to the left or to the right of the road, can you maybe just explain that?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: I was facing the direction wherefrom the truck was appearing.

MR PRIOR: And as you indicated earlier, the vehicle would come from a higher position coming down the road towards the brickyard, if it follows that route?

ZWELIMBANSE MAKASE: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You may go.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I call Mr Pangele.

MPHAMELO PANGELE: (sworn states)

MR PRIOR: Mr Pangele, is it correct that you are presently in the service of the South African Police Services stationed at Umtata?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Correct, sir.

MR PRIOR: On the day of the killing of Done and Mike Meyers, you were, it was on the 27th of August '93, you were in the employ of the Transkeian Police Service at the Murder and Robbery Unit based at Umtata, is that right?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Correct, sir.

MR PRIOR: Now it's common cause that Mr Meyers was shot and later died, that his daughter was kidnapped from the place where they were selling milk and taken to the Bashe River where she was killed, and that that happened in their truck, a three tonner, white tonner truck.   How did you become involved in that investigation?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Our control police radio told us as I was travelling in a police van.

MR PRIOR: So you got information of this incident that happened at Xhangora, is that right?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Correct, sir.

MR PRIOR: All right.   As a result of that, where did you go?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: I took the road between Idutwa and Umtata, it was a gravel road going to the direction of the truck as I knew that area well.

MR PRIOR: All right.   Is it correct that eventually you came to the brickyard at the Zeleni area, where Mr Makase, the previous witness, was employed or was working?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Correct, sir.

MR PRIOR: Did you make inquiries from him as to what had occurred there, or whether he had seen anything?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Yes, I inquired about that truck as I heard about the police radio from Mr Makase.

MR PRIOR: Did he direct you or show you any place?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: What he told me was that the truck had passed him, a white truck with a yellow, a grey, a blue roof, and that they had stopped before they had passed him.

MR PRIOR: Did he show you where the truck had stopped before it had passed him?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: I said he must accompany him to where he said the truck had stopped.

MR PRIOR: And did you go to that spot?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Yes, we went to that place.

MR PRIOR: Now, at that place, was that near a forest?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Yes, in a forest-like place, a (Indistinct) forest.

MR PRIOR: Did you find the body of Done Meyers there, in that vicinity?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: Yes, that's where we found a body of a white lady.

MR PRIOR: How far from - sorry, let me just establish this, where Mr Makase took you or showed you the spot, was there place for vehicles to park, in other words is it a clearing, is there a space without bush or what, what is the position?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: No, there was no place where cars could stop.  The truck stopped in the road.

MR PRIOR: Okay.   And from that - I'll come back to it, but from the place where Mr Makase indicated the truck had stopped to where the body of Done Meyers was found, can you just estimate how far that distance was?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: The distance was not long, it could be 200 metres from where Mr Makase was at the brick place and the place where he says the truck had stopped.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, do you say it was 200 metres from where he had been at the brickyard and 200 metres from where the truck had stopped?

MPHAMELO PANGELE: The distance is not very long, it could be in that amount of metres.