Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Yes, I did.  We were in the workshop of COSATU and the ANC and Mufamadi was sitting next to me when I confronted him with the information which was all over the papers at that point.
 I asked him about the statement which was referred to in the media.  I asked him if he knew anything in fact about the paper which was supposed to have been sent to Lusaka.  His response to me was that didn't I recollect that there was no longer a Crisis Committee at that point.

MR SEMENYA: When you discussed it with Mr Makoena, he confirms that, did you people have the actual statement?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: No, we were referring to what was contained in the media.  We did not have any statement before us and all, when I heard what he said here, I can only presume there was confusion about the papers and we were talking at cross-purposes.

MR SEMENYA: Jerry Richardson says you ordered the killing of Stompie.

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: That is ludicrous and the worst lunacy.

MR SEMENYA: When do you know for the first time about the death of Stompie?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I learnt of Stompie's death in the media, round about the time that whole thing exploded in the papers.

MR SEMENYA: Shall we talk a little now about Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala.  What was your contact with Lolo Sono?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: My contact with Lolo Sono was based on his relationship with Tebogo, one of the cadres I placed in Jerry Richardson's house.

MR SEMENYA: What was his function, Lolo Sono, in relation to Tebogo?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: He was my courier.

MR SEMENYA: What does that mean?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: He was a go-between between myself and that particular unit.  I could not communicate with that unit directly.   They were guerillas and they were underground and of course I was the obvious person who would be targeted by the police and they would know if I was openly communicating with the cadres.

MR SEMENYA: And we now know that the two cadres were killed in Jerry Richardson's house.  Why did you send him there?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: He was my courier and we needed to communicate with Tebogo and it was in fact Tebogo who needed to communicate with him.

MR SEMENYA: Now let me tidy up this one aspect first.  Why did you ask Richardson to house Tebogo and Sipho?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I asked Richardson to house them because Tebogo had grown very concerned about his stay with his uncle, whom he said was Mr Sono.
 He said he was worried about his security and safety there and asked me to remove him.

MR SEMENYA: Did you know at the time that Richardson was a police informer?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I had no idea.

MR SEMENYA: On the day that the two cadres were killed in Richardson's house, did you see Lolo Sono at all?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I had picked up Lolo from his home and had him dropped near Mzimhlope where Richardson was staying and where Tebogo was.

MR SEMENYA: Did you see them ever again?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I have never seen them, I have never seen him again.

MR SEMENYA: Did you know the friend, Shabalala Siboniso?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: No, I don't know that person.

MR SEMENYA: Richardson says he killed these two gentlemen on your instruction?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: That is ridiculous.

MR SEMENYA: Now, can I put to you the various allegations and or statements that have come during these proceedings and the closed Section 29 hearings?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: There was evidence by Phumsile Dlamini that you would have assaulted her, because of your jealousy of her then boyfriend who we can't trace now.  What is your response?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I regard that statement as totally ludicrous.

MR SEMENYA: In fact I must say that Jerry Richardson, yesterday on the same version says you instead intervened when this young lady was hit and you ordered that she must be taken to a place of safety.  Did you hear that evidence?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I heard that evidence, as I heard lots of things for the first time said here.

MR SEMENYA: Mr Nicodemus Sono said the last time he saw his son, he was in a vehicle, in a kombi, wherein you were a passenger.  What is your reaction to this?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: It is true that he last saw his son with me in that kombi when I went to collect him to take him to Tebogo.

MR SEMENYA: He states that at that time, Lolo Sono was injured?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I have no idea why he is making up that fabrication, safe to say I suppose, he is on this band wagon to lead this false fabrications.

MR SEMENYA: John Morgan also testified and I think the import of his evidence is that when he supported a particular position in the Supreme court, he was laying to protect you.

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I would have never needed to be protected by that type of character of the John Morgan quality.

MR SEMENYA: Who was John Morgan and what was your relationship with him?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: John Morgan is a neighbour and he is one of those neighbours who would come home, almost every day whenever he wasn't doing something, and he was also a driver.  So whenever I needed to be driven around, sometimes, I requested him if Jakes was not available.

MR SEMENYA: And would he drive you?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Yes, I did request him to drive me now and again for various errands.

MR SEMENYA: Then we heard the evidence of Xoliswa Falati that maybe to summarise it would be the best thing to do, that there was a Disciplinary Committee at the residence where you stayed?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I heard of that Disciplinary Committee for the first time in the in camera hearing.

MR SEMENYA: That there was a register on which all the complaints of members of the community would be entered.

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I know of no such a register.

MR SEMENYA: That you and your daughter Zinzi would then preside over this hearings?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: As you have heard in these proceedings, whenever it suited whatever agenda, my daughter's name is dragged in at random in the most ridiculous of evidences I have ever heard.

MR SEMENYA: How old was Zinzi at that time?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Zinzi was born in 1960.

MR SEMENYA: Now, did you know Maxwell Madondo?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Yes, I knew Maxwell Madondo.  He was one of the boys that came with a group from Natal.

MR SEMENYA: Did you have anything to do with the killing of Maxwell Madondo?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: How could I have anything to do with that killing?   I saw the first reports which purported to link me even to his death.  That was one of the boys I placed in school, he was attending school in Orlando West.

MR SEMENYA: On the day of his death, according to the information you have, where was he from?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: He was from school, from what I learnt.

MR SEMENYA: And around this event, was the burning of the house of Mrs Chili.

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I heard so.

MR SEMENYA: Did you order anybody to burn the house of Mrs Chili?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: Why would I order the burning of the house of Dudu Chili?  I had absolutely nothing against her.  I hadn't seen her for years and when I did know her, she is one of the women I had worked closely with.  I had great respect for her.

MR SEMENYA: Did you know that you were associated with the burning of the house by any means?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: I saw that in the media.

MR SEMENYA: Did Mrs Chili come and speak to you about the allegation that her son is being threatened?

MRS MADIKIZELA-MANDELA: No, she did not.

MR SEMENYA: Do you know anything that there was a decision to kill her son because he is refusing to play for the Mandela United Football Club?