Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

MR LOWIES: I could not.  I couldn't get hold of an interpreter and I could not get hold of Mr Strydom either.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no questions.    NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Now how long will it take you to get that interpreter?

MR LOWIES: ...(indistinct)

INTERPRETER: The speaker is off record.

CHAIRPERSON: But how do you communicate with your client?  We need to get on with - we can't allow Ms Molete to remain here the whole day and tomorrow.  We need to know from you when you can get instructions from your client.

MR LOWIES: About half an hour, Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon?

MR LOWIES: About half an hour.

CHAIRPERSON: Why don't you go and take instructions from your client now?

MR LOWIES: Mr Frederech will do that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Do you have any re-examination at this stage?

MR BERGER: I have a short re-examination.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.

MR BERGER: Should I do it?

CHAIRPERSON: Just go ahead.

MR BERGER: Ms Molete, yesterday when Mr Strydom was questioning you and he put to you that you were mistaken and that you were lying about the presence of white people in Boipatong, you said
"Can I ask you a question, Mr Strydom?"
Do you remember that?

MS M MOLETE: Yes, I do.

MR BERGER: And you were stopped from asking that question.

MS M MOLETE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: What question did you want to ask?

MS M MOLETE: It is the very question concerning Pretoria and money.

MR BERGER: The R150 and the Kentucky?

MS M MOLETE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Why did you not testify in the criminal trial?

MS M MOLETE: I was not called.

MR BERGER: The letter that you speak about calling you to attend in Pretoria, was that a letter on a letterhead, or was it a subpoena from the court?  Do you know the difference?

MS M MOLETE: They would write letters and at times we would go on different days and we would be fetched by police in State kombis.

MR BERGER: Who is the "they" who would write the letters?

MS M MOLETE: I do not know because the letters were from Pretoria.  When the police come they would tell us to prepare ourselves as the next day we would be going to Pretoria and we would be a group there.

MR BERGER: And is that how you went to Pretoria on those three separate occasions?

MS M MOLETE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Were you confused at all during the attack?

MS M MOLETE: That is so.

MR BERGER: What confused you?

MS M MOLETE: I was confused by the attack that I did not know the cause of and as I looked at my child I would ask myself that my child was not born disabled and today she is disabled, and I'm asking myself, since I cannot work now, who is going to fend for her and who is going to bring her up, what kind of upbringing would she have.

MR BERGER: So your confusion relates to the question; why did this happen to me and my family and to my child?  Is that the confusion?

MS M MOLETE: That is correct, Sir.

MR BERGER: Do you have any doubt that you were attacked by a white man?

MS M MOLETE: I have no doubt,  I saw this with my own eyes.

MR BERGER: Do you have any doubt that you saw two policemen, two white men in camouflage uniforms?

MS M MOLETE: I have no doubt, I saw them.

MR BERGER: Do you have any doubt that you saw a Hippo?

MS M MOLETE: I have no doubt, I saw it Sir.

MR BERGER: When you ran or when you went to your sister's house, Phuleng, where did you find her?

MS M MOLETE: I found her in her house in the bedroom.  She was hiding and very much in shock.

MR BERGER: Did you at any stage see Phuleng outside of her shack?

MS M MOLETE: I did not see her, she has always been inside.

MR BERGER: Thank you, Ms Molete, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.
	There was one aspect just now that you gave while you were being questioned, it was around the issue of whether you wanted to give evidence in the criminal trial and you answered that you want to give evidence "... according to how they expected me to do so."
Those were the words you used, what did you mean by that?

MS M MOLETE: I wanted to tell the head I have inside and state what I have observed.

MR LAX: Yes, but did anybody expect anything from you?

MS M MOLETE: I do not have knowledge of that, Sir.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Sorry if I may, Chair, just one other thing.
	You said you'd seen this uniform, this camouflage uniform on many occasions in the township.

MS M MOLETE: That is correct, Sir.

MR LAX: Who was wearing it on those occasions?

MS M MOLETE: I would see people passing by in this uniform.  A lot of people in the township wear this uniform.

MR LAX: Were they just ordinary people?

MS M MOLETE: That is correct, Sir.

MR LAX: So what I'm trying to understand, was it a form of uniform like a security guard or a policeman or a military person, or was it just a style of clothing that civilians would wear?  That's what I'm trying to understand.

MS M MOLETE: As I observed on a daily basis, people wear these things and other are not employed.  I would not know whether it would be a style of wearing or they previously worked for the military or not.

MR LAX: Thanks.

ADV SIGODI: You mentioned that you resided at house number 717 in Amatola Street.

MS M MOLETE: That is correct, Ma'am.

ADV SIGODI: Alright.  And what time did you leave your house to go and visit your sister, on the 17th?

MS M MOLETE: We left at 3 o'clock with our luggage.

ADV SIGODI: Were you aware that at that time that there was teargas in the township, being fired at some of the Special Defence Unit people?

MS M MOLETE: If that happened I do not know.  It might have been taking place at the centre of the location, but Amatola is more on the outskirts of the location, towards the firms.

ADV SIGODI: Were you aware that there were any trenches being dug in your side of the, in your area?

MS M MOLETE: I only saw one along in Bafokeng Street.

ADV SIGODI: Did you know why these trenches were being dug?

MS M MOLETE: No, Ma'am.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say that you don't know why the trenches were being dug?

MS M MOLETE: I said so. I say no, I saw one and I passed thereby as I took my child to creche.

ADV SIGODI: How long had you being staying in Boipatong?

MS M MOLETE: It was the third year.  The third year that I have been living in Boipatong.

ADV SIGODI: Were you aware of the presence of Self Defence Units in the township?

MS M MOLETE: I did not know Ma'am, I have heard it being mentioned here, because during weekends we would leave.

ADV SIGODI: How many children do you have?

MS M MOLETE: It is Mita.

ADV SIGODI: And how old was your husband at that time?

MS M MOLETE: We were equals and 36 years old each.

ADV SIGODI: We have heard evidence that men would be called out to go and guard the township during those days because the people were aware that the streets would have to be guarded.  Was your husband never called to go and guard out?

MS M MOLETE: He worked night shifts and he was not that used to these people at the township.

CHAIRPERSON: Had your husband been there for three years, just like yourself?

MS M MOLETE: He came afterwards.  He came there to work for about two years and three months.  We started staying there at Amatola and I resided at my brother's place.

CHAIRPERSON: And out of that period he had been working night shift?

MS M MOLETE: During the attack he was still working night shifts.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ADV SIGODI: Were you aware of any people being necklaced in the township?  Had you heard such rumours?

MS M MOLETE: We would leave for home during weekends.  When he was off weekends we would leave for home in Carltonville.

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, what you're being asked is, are you aware of any people who were necklaced in the township?

MS M MOLETE: I have not seen such people.

ADV SIGODI: Did you hear about that?