Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-14

MR TIPP: Mr Chairman I will be guided by the Committee. We have referred to the portions of the ballistics report and the sketch plan already. I don't want unnecessarily to review the same material. But perhaps I can just put in summary Mr Khumalo that among the matters that the ballistics report shows is that there are ten AK47 bullet marks in the underneath side of the parapet quite close to the corner where you were is that?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And is it also correct that you were the only person at that corner with an AK47?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And that therefore you fired those shots into the parapet also?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is right.

MR TIPP: What I would like you to do please Mr Khumalo is to give the Committee some sense of your state of mind at the time in that situation. Were you calm and composed or what was the position?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: I think the position there if somebody had been in the war situation maybe he will understand. If your life is at stake, there are people whom you must protect, the buildings and other things I think most of the time you will find yourself not stable.

MR TIPP: Did you at that time feel that your own life amongst the other lives was at peril of being lost?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is right.

MR TIPP: You have just mentioned the protection. I want to direct your attention to an answer that you gave in your hand-written application for amnesty at page 70. At the top of that page under paragraph C you are asked the question; did you benefit in any way financially or otherwise. And the question is put in the context of as a result of the action you took. And your answer was: "Yes the election took place." You confirm that?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: I do.

MR TIPP: Would you please indicate to the Committee why it is that you gave that answer and what the importance was to you personally of the election indeed taking place on the scheduled date of 27 April?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: It is because that the answer which I have given here it is because that the struggle which have taken many years we have sacrificed, most of the people of South Africa have sacrificed. Not only the ANC but most of the people of South Africa until on that last day. There were only few weeks or days left for the election to take place. Then some of our brothers they were not prepared to join and we all gain from the struggle. Because they have suffered. They were all oppressed. Therefore on that light that is why I have said that the election have taken place and all of us we have gained from that. All of us. Not to say that this was an IFP, Nationalist Party - everybody have gained from that. And I was very happy about that.

MR TIPP: Mr Khumalo at the time that you fired your AK47 did you perceive the conduct of the advancing marchers, I will put it neutrally - as posing a threat to the holding of the election?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Indeed.

MR TIPP: In what way?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: First of all the leadership of the ANC, the forerunners of this elections were in that building. Then the people who were against this election were the ones who were firing at us. That is why then we have repelled them.

MR TIPP: Mr Khumalo you are aware that the forensic, that is the medical evidence that was presented at the inquest in relation to those who died outside Shell House has shown two things. The one is that the one person who died as a result of an AK47 wound the bullet could not be linked to either of the two weapons of the ANC on that day.

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes Sir.

MR TIPP: The other aspect is that it has shown that the majority of them were wounded evidently in the course of them trying to flee from the scene.

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR TIPP: Is it correct that you accept that evidence?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: I do accept that.

MR TIPP: Would you tell the Committee please what the implications are of that for the application by you for amnesty?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes. The report, the medical report that shows that we have exceeded the bounds of self-defence. That some of the people were fleeing at that time. Then I think we have exceeded the bounds of self-defence.

MR TIPP: And Mr Khumalo now in conclusion. Although the medical evidence shows that no bullet fired by you killed anyone you must accept as a trained person in these matters knowing of the power of an AK47 that people may have been injured by shots that you fired?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes I do accept that.

MR TIPP: In respect of that possibility would you tell the Committee please how you feel about that entire episode?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: As I belong to the African National Congress I think we were taught that the life of human beings are very, very important. You can't just take a life of a human being without any apparent reason. Therefore I think we are very, very sorry about that incident.

MR TIPP: Thank you Mr Chairman that completes my questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR TIPP

MR DORFLING: Thank you Mr Chairman by agreement between the parties I will go first with the cross-examination of this witness.
	Mr Khumalo at the time when you left the foyer after having collected the AK47 to go to the corner of King George and Plein Street did you understand the position to be that you would be accompanied by Mr Gary Kruser and that he would be giving you the necessary orders?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR DORFLING: Did you once you arrived at the corner receive any orders from Mr Gary Kruser pertaining to when to shoot?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR DORFLING: What orders did you get Sir?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: No he told me that after the, before I shoot he will give me the order to do so.

MR DORFLING: So when you went to the corner Sir the idea in your mind was that you would remain at the corner in a ready position so to speak until such time as you get the necessary order from Mr Gary Kruser. Is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR DORFLING: Did Mr Gary Kruser give you such an order?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Repeat your question please?

MR DORFLING: Did Mr Gary Kruser give you such order on that day?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Which order?

MR DORFLING: Your order to shoot Sir?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Indeed.

MR DORFLING: Did you refrain from shooting until such time as you received that order by Mr Gary Kruser?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR DORFLING: Mr Chair if you will just bear with me? I am just looking for a portion of the record. I beg your pardon Mr Chair I am just looking for a portion which I made a note of but it seems like I have got the incorrect numbering of the page. Mr Chair may I with your leave just leave this point I will revert back to it. I would rather move onto something else.
	When you took up position on the corner of King George and Plein Street Mr Khumalo you explained that you were in the prone position. Is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR DORFLING: Does that mean you were lying flat down on the ground facing in a northerly direction towards de Villiers, up King George?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: No.

MR DORFLING: What does it mean?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: There are pillars there. How can I face up? I was facing about I will say from the pillar, which means pillar is ninety degree. Then I was facing at about five or eight degree.

MR DORFLING: I am afraid not. Were you facing towards the top end of the block but more towards the opposite side of the road opposite of Shell House. Is that what you are saying?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: I don't understand what you are saying.

MR DORFLING: Do you know where de Villiers Street is in relation to where you were?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: Yes.

MR DORFLING: You were towards the corner of King George and Plein is that correct?

BAFANA EDDIE KHUMALO: That is correct.