Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

MR LAX: /actually confess

MR LAX: 18A/21 actually confess to the world, you know.  In fact, then I agreed and then the conference was conducted.  Then I thought that - I remember it was on the Saturday morning and then the former - the late - actually former Secretary-General of the ANC, Mr Tito Mkobe (?), came.  Then he asked me - then I told him.  Then from then, you know, he also gave me a smack.  Now I was shocked, because I thought, you know, being a senior person he is going to save me from this situation where I was.  From then and then he said to me, you know, these boys are going to deal with me, you know, and then he left.  Then, you know, beatings continued and you will find that - I will eat maybe once in a week and then the prison warders that were there, you know, were the people who didn't have any mercy for people like myself, because they said no, they've big fish, you know.  And from then and then I still remember Mr Nzo came there - Foreign Minister to South Africa, Mr Alfred Nzo.  He also came there and I had a hope that he was going to help me.  He also, you know, dealt with me physically.  And then from then and then I really lost hope.

MR LAX: Mr Hlongwane, as part of your evidence, if you are going to name people, I think you should - we are required to give those people notice, whoever they might be if you are going to accuse them of acts.  So we are here to hear what happened to you.  You can tell us outside of this forum who those people are, so that we can inform them, according to the law.  We are under a court order to do that.  So if I could ask - I'm not wanting to stop your story.  You're welcome to tell your story, but we are also pressed for time and I would like you to try and, as far

MR LAX: /as possible,

MR LAX: 18A/25 as possible, stick to the incidents that happened and where you moved, from which place to which place and so on.

WITNESS:   Okay, and then through the recommendation from Mr Mbeki and then I was informed by the officers of the - actually of the late - the former President, Mr Oliver Tambo, that I should be moved from Zambia to Angola and then from then and then that was when, early 1987, then I was moved to Angola and then in Angola I was kept in the maximum prison by the name - I think it is Nova Stellasou.  Nova Stellasou, that is Portuguese, which means new installation.  So then from then and then I stayed there about two weeks.  Then from there then I was moved to a northern part of Angola, the place called Kibashe, in the camp called Quadro Quadro.  It's Portuguese.  In English it's, four.  So I served my punishment there from 1987 to 1988 and then through my punishment I was doing hard labour and then I understood the situation pertaining food, because we had a problem of food there and then I would say the ANC didn't deprive us food.  I would be lying if I say so, but because Angola was in the civil war whereby Unita was very strong in Kibashe and therefore the trucks that were supposed to bring food to us, I would say were ambushed by Unita.  So then even Mr Oliver Tambo himself visited us and then he asked us about food and then we told him, you know, "Right, we do get food, but, you know, not like in the other camps", etcetera, etcetera, because Kibashe was really in the war.  And then from then and then 1988, after the New York Accord between Soviet Union, Cuba, Angola, South Africa and for the independence of Namibia then that is when now the ANC was moved from Angola to Uganda.  So then in Uganda we were

MR LAX: /kept in another

MR LAX: 18A/27 kept in another concentration camp and then, quoting the background, which was run at some stage by Idi Amin.  So we were kept there until 1991, when the State President, Dr Nelson Mandela, visited the camps in Uganda in 1991.  That is when he decided that, right, there should be a tribunal, because, you know, I would say the MK, as the army, they had their own code of conduct of which the tribunal - it was not a civilian tribunal, it was a military tribunal.  So then myself and one of the people, you know, who were also charged, and then the Premier in Mpumalanga, Mr Phosa, was there as my lawyer.  And myself I was sentenced to 15 years' hard labour.  So from then and then I told the panel that I want them to try me in the International Court of Justice, but not in the kangaroo court, etcetera, and therefore then I decided to embark on a hunger strike.  I staged my hunger strike on the 18th February and my hunger strike lasted almost about 29 days after I was sentenced to 15 years.  And then after that hunger strike and then Mr Tholi Mongali, who was the judge in that tribunal, then he came and then he visited us and then he told me that I should stop my hunger strike and then the ANC is going to arrange a plane ticket for me.  Then I will be sent back to South Africa and then I will be indemnified by the South African Government.  So really, myself I was so happy, then I stopped my hunger strike.  So that was March and March, April, May.  Then on June then I was victimised by a prison warder while I was still waiting, because I thought maybe I've been pardoned, now I'm a free man, so I cannot be treated like before.  Then I was, you know, I was entreated (?) again and then I decided to embark on another hunger strike again and the

MR LAX: /date was the

MR LAX: 18B/1 date was the 16th June and I was still weak by then, so my hunger strike lasted ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.

WITNESS:   Pardon?  So then my hunger strike lasted 33 days.  Then I collapsed.  Then I recovered in the military hospital in Uganda, in Kampala.  So while I was still in hospital and then the doctor asked me what was wrong with me.  So then I told the doctor that I was in the hunger strike, you know, after I recovered from unconsciousness.  So from then and then the doctor said according the report the ANC says I'm suffering from AIDS, which is Acquired Immunity Deficiency Syndrome.  I said, "No, I am on a hunger strike", and from there again.

MR LAX: Mr Hlongwane, you spent some time in hospital?

WITNESS:   No, no, no, that was a day's.

MR LAX: One day?

WITNESS:   One day, yes, because that doctor requested the ANC that I should be admitted to the hospital but the ANC refused.  They said I was going to run away.  And then from then they took me to another safe place.  Actually I would say a safe house of the ANC, and then from then and then I spoke - I told the doctor that, "Please, if there any possibilities, can you just go to any embassy or to the offices of the United Nations and tell them there is a person like myself and the others, who are in the ANC prison camps?"  And then the doctor - I would say the doctor did play the role, because on the 17th August 1991 then we were released from prison.  So when I arrived back in South Africa then we were welcomed by the African National Congress, including the International Red Cross.  Then I related my story to the ANC, because we had a meeting with the State President presently, including the late Mr Chris Hani and Mrs Winnie

MR LAX: /Mandela.

MR LAX: 18B/2 Mandela.

MR LAX: Mr Hlongwane, since you've been back in South Africa your story is well publicly recorded.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: You had a lot of press coverage and we don't need to discuss all of that at this point in time.

WITNESS:   Okay.

MR LAX: Again, as you're aware, we are pressed for time and you've related your experiences during the time that you were in exile and the time that you were out of the country.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: You have indicated to us that you would at some point like to apply for amnesty for other matters that you had been involved in.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: That is all, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Dr Mgojo.