Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-12

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I think you would have to ask that of the Co-ordinator, or you must have asked Mr Verster.

MR KAHANOVITZ: We did ask Mr Verster, Mr Verster says it originates with people like you?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is incorrect.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Is his evidence in that regard, wrong, then?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Definitely.

MR KAHANOVITZ: All right, I want to turn now to the plot to assassinate Mr Omar.
	Let's deal with the preparation of the "voor-studie".  Just some background, you had received this information, you had been asked to go and see who were prominent radical figures in the Western Cape, correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is so.

MR KAHANOVITZ: As a consequence of that process, you had fed that information to your superiors?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is so.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Do I take it at that stage, there was as of yet, no project to eliminate Dullah Omar?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is entirely correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: In various of these other cases that have dealt with the CCB, there is continuous reference to something called a "Binnelandse Teikenlys".  Are you aware of such a document?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Did you ever see a target list?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Not at all.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now, this information is now fed upstairs, what, at what stage were you asked to prepare a "voor-studie" on Dullah Omar?  What triggered that event?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I am not certain whether I received that instruction because of the fact that I had supplied information with regard to Min Omar to the structure, or whether it was an independent decision that was taken and the instruction just fell in my lap.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Mr Basson comes to you and he says "Mr van Zyl, I want you to prepare a "voor-studie" for the elimination of Dullah Omar?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is so.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What else does he say to you, is that all he says to you?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is all.  Then I accept we have to investigate all the possibilities as to how the project would be brought to execution, and that is what we call the "pre-study", that is why in this regard I came down to the Cape and contacted Peaches in this regard, so that I could place a proposal in writing which I could send back to the Co-ordinator.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You mentioned that another name that was given to you of a prominent radical figure in the Western Cape, was that of Trevor Manual, correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So both those names would have been sent, escalated to your superiors?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: With regard to Mr Trevor Manual I can recall that I did receive his name, but at that stage, weeks, a few weeks after I received his name, he was detained in terms of Security Legislation, and that is the only information which I sent back to them.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But I am assuming if you go and ask your informants in the Western Cape to give you the name of prominent radical figures, they are not just going to come back with one name?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: This was the instance, or the information which I received from Peaches, only specifically dealt with Min Dullah Omar.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Isn't that very strange, because according to your statement, your instructions to them were "go and get me names of prominent radical figures", they just came back with one?  Is that your evidence?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is what happened.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kahanovitz, when you get to a convenient stage, I have been requested for a five minute adjournment.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I would strongly support that adjournment right now, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We will just take a very short, five minute adjournment.

MS COLERIDGE: All rise.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

ABRAM VAN ZYL: (s.u.o.)

MR KAHANOVITZ: (cont)
	... the Omar incident, could you just look at  page 117 of bundle A, paragraph 57 concerning a project to burn down a printing press.
	Now you say -
"... I received information early in June 1989 that the printing press was doing printing work for amongst others the ANC, the UDF, COSATU and other limited organisations.  The information was given to the CCB and a project was identified that the place would have to be burnt down.  After an "in-house" with the Managing Director, the Regional Director informed me that the project was approved and the place would have to be burnt down.  I gave Isgak instructions to execute the project.  Later he reported to me that the place had been burnt out and he was compensated with R2 000-00.  I also later heard that the printing press was never burnt out."
	Do you confirm that statement, correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is what you read and this is the incident that I referred to this morning Mr Chairperson, where the name was wrong.  Isgak should actually be Peaches.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But Mr van Zyl, you have testified on the basis of this statement, on countless occasions, why is this the first time that you are drawing this to anyone's attention, that this is incorrect?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: When I compared it with my Section 29 statement and I read it through, it came to my attention, and this is why I mentioned it to you this morning.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But surely you would have a clear recollection as to who cheated you of R2 000-00?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I know it was Peaches who was involved in this project, but Isgak or rather Gakkie, is mentioned here, it was not him.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You say that you
"... I received information ..."
	who did you receive this information from?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: From Peaches.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now, who owned this printing press?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I do not have a clue, Mr Chairperson.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What was the name of the printing press?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I do not know, I cannot remember.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you made this statement ...

CHAIRPERSON: 1990?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, in 1990, within  months, I think it was, just get the date of your statement, it was March 1990 and you were talking about events in June 1989.  You wouldn't have had difficulty remembering?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Mr Chairperson, I can see that this specific project was very briefly touched upon because it was discovered afterwards that execution had never been given tot he project, because it seems as if the place never existed.  That is why we briefly referred to it and not in detail as we did with the other projects.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But Mr van Zyl, surely it was purely a matter of luck that the project was never fulfilled, when one is dealing with your criminal intent, it was your intention that the printing press was going to get burnt down and you put plans into motion to achieve that objective, correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And you followed the ordinary procedures of the CCB in giving effect to that plan?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And you are telling us as you sit here today, that you've got no idea what the name of this printing press was?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I cannot remember it.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, did I hear you correctly, sorry Mr Kahanovitz, Mr van Zyl, did you say that that printing press may never have existed?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is the feedback that I received, or the impression that I was brought under, that that site did not exist and that accordingly was never burnt down.

CHAIRPERSON: But if you were to make a "pre-study", you know you send the information through above and then it comes down "make a pre-study about the burning of this printing press", wouldn't, I would have thought that it would have been very basic for you yourself, the person in charge of the study, to go and physically take a look where this printing press was, it might have been on the 19th floor of the building in the centre of Johannesburg or it might have been in a little shack in the suburbs, information that would be hugely relevant as to the carrying out of an operation of that nature, just to see it, whether it is possible to burn it down or not?  Didn't you do that?