Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1997-06-11

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I will say I was charged with attempted murder.

ADV TEE: Now when you were in the planning stages of the mission to attack Shabangu's house, how many people did you have as a target, how many people did you set out to kill?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: We had three people.

ADV TEE: Were the three people in Shabangu's house?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: No.

ADV TEE: How many people did you set out to kill in Shabangu's house?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Only Shabangu.

ADV TEE: And what time of night was it?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I think it was between one and two o'clock in the morning.

ADV TEE: Why did you choose that time of night?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That was a given time, that is should at least be after twelve o'clock, because in most cases people arrive at their homes and we couldn't find them if we arrive early because they had to attend to organisational duties.
	So we thought this was the right time to go and attack.

ADV TEE: Isn't it really because you thought that he would be asleep in his bedroom?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is what I am saying.  We couldn't find people early, so we have to go late in the morning and we knew that he would be there when we arrived.

ADV TEE: And you were setting out to attack one person?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is correct.

ADV TEE: In that house?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is correct.

ADV TEE: All right.  Now, during your trial, you changed your plea from not guilty ...

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interpose Mr Tee, I am sorry.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is off.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Skosana, are you saying that you went to Mr Shabangu's house at about two o'clock because you had arranged to go to that house at about two o'clock?  Was that the time that you had agreed upon as a group that would be launching your attack?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: To put the matter straight, we didn't set a specific time as to when we were going to attack, but it was supposed to be after twelve o'clock.
	Because we thought that would be the right time when we could find him.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I am just reading from your evidence in mitigation which you gave when you stated that the reason why you went there two o'clock was because Mr Nkuna was late, he was supposed to have arranged transport for you, but then he didn't pitch up in time, that appears on paginated page 7.  That is the first line, he was supposed to organise transport for us, that was going to take us to the particular place, that was on the 10th.
	We waited for him until late, which is now during the morning hours of the 11th, roundabout one or two o'clock in the morning and he failed to organise transport and we walked to that place.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I would like to clarify.  The transport I am talking about is about the one which we are supposed to go and get out that cheques.  That is the transport I am talking about.  Because when we were on foot, I am not clear about the statement.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You were supposed to organise transport to take you to where?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, that is correct to carry out the operations, we needed transport, but the transport I am talking about in the statement, that is the transport.

SISI KHAMPEPE: We are on the same wavelength and he delayed them, that is why you ended up going there in the early hours of the morning.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: The reason why we wanted transport is because we had to cover the three of them because they were living far apart from each other.  So since we couldn't find transport at that time, we decided to take people who were closer, because when you leave Joe's place you just walk a short distance, and you can find Jack's house and some few distance again, you can find Shabangu's place.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So who was nearer to Nkuna's house, was it Jack or Shabangu?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Sorry?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Who was nearer to Nkuna's house, was it Jack ...

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: It is Jack.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But you didn't go to his house?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: We first went to Jack's house.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And that is the gentleman you didn't find in and that is why you went to Mr Shabangu's house?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: We have to leave and go to Mr Shabangu's place.

ADV DE JAGER: How did you know that Jack wasn't there?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: He usually travels by car and we found out that the car was not at home at that time.

ADV DE JAGER: Do you know anything about Jack, was he also a member of the Executive here in the Eastern Transvaal or worked in the office?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, he worked at the Regional offices, but I didn't know exactly what was his position there.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you know him at the time?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I just knew him as comrade Jacks, but I never met him before to talk anything.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you Mr Tee.

ADV TEE: When you were targeting the house of Mr Shabangu, you were quite clear you were only going to kill one person?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, we wanted to kill one person.

ADV TEE: Now when you changed your plea from not guilty to guilty,  you said the following "I admit further that we attempted to kill six people at the house in Kayamazana".

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Tee, won't you refer him to a particular page so that he can actually be with you.  I think he looks a little blank, so is his counsel.

ADV TEE: It is C portion, the first page and it is about the third paragraph.  Yes Mr Skosana, why did you admit to the court that you went out to attempt to kill six people when you said here that you attempted to kill one person?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I was referring to the charges that I was facing at that time.

ADV TEE: So you are saying that it is a drafting error by the Attorney that helped sign this document with you?

CHAIRPERSON: No Mr Tee, you are wrong, he doesn't say that we went out to go and kill six people, where do you see that?

ADV TEE: I further admit that we attempted to kill six people at the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, he says I admit that we attempted to kill six people.  He doesn't say he admit that we went to go and kill six people as you put it.  I think this of course has just to do with the question of reconciling himself with the possible death of people which is a technical aspect of the matter.
	It cannot be construed in any way to mean that when they left home, they had the intention to go and kill six people.  To start off they didn't know that there were six people in the house.

ADV TEE: Mr Chairman, I accept that, that is certainly not a problem.
	Mr Chairman, at this stage, can I ask for a brief five minute adjournment, I want to ask two questions to my clients that can need some explanation.
	There is an aspect of this cross-examination that I am not sure we should get into right now, because it is going to take a while and perhaps clarification by my client now, will slow that down.

CHAIRPERSON: We will appreciate it if it could be shorter than what you are suggesting.

ADV TEE: That is five minutes Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We will be happy if it could be shorter than five minutes.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS FOR FIVE MINUTES - ON RESUMPTION