Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

MS SEROKE: I would like to know when you say that you do not know whether your child was politically active when the police arrived and they were looking for Tolo.
 Do you think that perhaps they came into your house by mistake, maybe they intended to go to Tolo's?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: The name that they mentioned was that they were looking for Tolo, not Mphotsha.

MS SEROKE: According to you, did you know who Tolo was, that it was your neighbour maybe.

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: He used to stay a few houses behind me.

MS SEROKE: Your son, he used to stutter.  He couldn't even tell them.  He got such a fright and he jumped out of the window.  And he was standing in the yard.  But did you show them your son's passport?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: They came to fetch it on the 22nd from my wife when I wasn't there.  And she told me, because she was the one who was left there.

MS SEROKE: In the car that you people were watching through the window, how he was being put in the car's boot, did you see how the shot him, or did you just heard the shot.

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: We just heard two shots.

MS SEROKE: In the time that you were going to the mortuary to go and look for your son's corpse, where you even saw the spot where he was shot, did you see any damage to his hand or something?  Since they said they had shot his hand?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: I didn't see any damage as such.  They shot
MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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him on his left and the bullet came through on his right.

MS SEROKE: Thank you very much.

MR MALAN: Mr Mphotsha, I have just one follow-up question.  The two policemen who entered your house, that first time, were they dressed in uniform or in private clothes?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: They were privately dressed, not in uniform.

DR RANDERA: Mr Mphotsha I understand how painful this if for you and your wife to recall this story, but I would like to ask one question.  This person that had been referred to Tolo, do you know whether he was involved in any political activity?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: I do not know whether he was politically active, because this Tolo was a priest.  Even now, he has passed away, he is survived by his children.

MS SEROKE: You say in your statements that you even went to Pretoria, trying to see the Minister of Police.  Did they allow you to see him?  If you did, what did he say to you or what did you say to him?  What transpired?

MS SEROKE: Would you like me to repeat the question?   I was asking in the time that you mentioned in your statement that you went to Pretoria to see the Minister of Police, what transpired?  Were you allowed to see him and if you did what transpired?

GEORGE MPHOTSHA: Not in Pretoria, in Lichtenburg.
They revealed him a bit, so that I could just see him a 
bit.

MS SEROKE: The mortuary in Lichtenburg ...

THOMAS MANTHATA: We have a little bit of problem with regard where to place the case, but we are sad for any loss of life and we can understand how sad your family is over a child - whose purpose of death cannot be established, can be MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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established but the perpetrator cannot be traced, nor could the courts have taken your case.   
 We will see what to do, that is to refer to some of those bodies to help pursue the case.   If at this time, it is still possible.  We are very sorry, sad and we wish to convey this to you and your family.
 We thank you for the patience you took to be with us today.  Thank you so much.