Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-12

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Now I wish to start calling the evidence of the applicants themselves and I intend starting with Ramasitsi, that's 2723/36, I suppose it should read 96.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ramasitsi, what language would you prefer to use?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: English.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you sure?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: If during your testimony you wish to change, then please indicate to your attorney please.
Before I ask you the next question, is there any particular reason you have that thing on your head?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: I beg your pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any particular reason that you need to have that on your head?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Because of my ear.

CHAIRPERSON: Your ear?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What is wrong with your ear?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: My ear, the right ear Sir has been torn off.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay.

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: (sworn states)

MR NDOU: Mr Ramasitsi, you are applicant number 2723 of 96, is that correct?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

MR NDOU: And your full names are Roger Kachero Ramasitsi.

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

MR NDOU: Now could you tell the Committee as to when were you born?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: I was born 5 May 1970.

MR NDOU: I see, so that makes you 29 now, is that correct?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Of course.

MR NDOU: And you've come before this Amnesty Committee to apply for amnesty for certain acts or commission that you committed during 1990, is that correct?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Absolutely.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou, before you proceed, I just want to indicate to you that at the end of the hearing the Committee would expect you to indicate which crimes each applicant would be applying for amnesty for.

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Because we are not going to give amnesty for something that is not asked for.

MR NDOU: That is so.
	Now, is it correct that indeed in 1992, November, you were sentenced for certain offences which took place on the 28th and 6th April 1990, is that correct?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes.

MR NDOU: Now for which offences were you convicted?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: I was convicted of arson and murder also.

MR NDOU: And this murder that you are alleged to have committed, who was the deceased person in the matter?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: The deceased is Mr Edward Mahvunga.

MR NDOU: And where did deceased Edward Mahvunga reside?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: He resided at Mahvunga location.

MR NDOU: And you, where do you reside?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: I reside at Mahvunga location too.

MR NDOU: Now when I looked at your date of birth, I see that in 1990 you were 20 years of age, is that correct?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Of course.

MR NDOU: Now, you are appearing here before the Committee with several others, 8 other people.

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR NDOU: Now I want you to slowly go through and explain to the Committee as to what transpired before you did whatever you did and why you did it, so that the Committee can understand before they can take a decision as to whether to grant you amnesty or not.  Do you understand that?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Thank you.  Can I go?

MR NDOU: Yes, please do so.

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: I think I should start at the time when the man was released himself, I mean the Honourable Mr Mandela.  The time he was released, I still remember every feeling of the youth here in Venda, particularly in our region, there was a general feeling that we have to be free and that freedom was to come through our contribution.  So as Mr Professor here said, in the urban areas the youth were involved in many things to render the country ungovernable as such.  So in the rural areas there came to be a time when things weren't going right, as I can say.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you just pause in between sentences so that we could take notes, please.

MR NDOU: Right, just take it slow.

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: Okay.  At the time of the release of Mr Nelson Mandela the youth were very much emotionally charged because at the time, that was the time of political awareness amongst us, the youth.  During that time there was a confusion, if not a confusion at all as I can say, the youth were very much distanced from playing political role here in our region because everything which was done, it was done for us by the elders.  We felt that as the youth we have to contribute to our freedom as such.
	During that time, it was the time when political parties were starting to stage rallies around our region, particularly in our area where I was staying in Nzhelele.  So during that time, we used to go to all the rallies, addressed by those big political powers, I mean those big political names in South Africa.  During that time, it was the time that everyone said that there was a quest for freedom, so there came to be a time when we had to strategise so as to be in form with those comrades in the urban area.  As I still remember, our comrades in the urban areas were involved in rent boycotts, consumer boycotts, strikes and all the likes, whereas here in the rural areas there were no such things, so there came to be a time when we thought that for us to contribute in our struggle, we have to remove such obstacles that were making it difficult for us to be free as such, as everybody was thinking that now Mandela is out, we are going to be free.
	Here in the rural areas, it was not that easy.  There were many confrontations with the police and the defence force as such because during that time almost every main road here in Venda, it was manned by the comrades because every now and then there was a movement of youth going up and down attending rallies in the stadium and in the committee halls as such.  So, we used to hold meetings in our village.  Mostly when we came from major rallies, when we came back, we used to address those youth who used to stay behind for protection.

MR NDOU: Okay.  If I may ask you, were you organised as a group, or were you just a group of separate individuals who'd come to meet, what prevailed at the time?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: So at that time, as I have said, it was emotionally, it was a feeling amongst the youth that for us to be counted as the freedom fighters, because at that time it was during the time of the unbanning of political parties, during that time I cannot say we were members as here in the rural area there was not that political awareness that everyone can say I have to be a member, I have to be a card carrying member, so I can say we were supporters of those political parties, at such time, but we were not card carrying members as we were just starting to mobilise so that we can have our own youth congress as such at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: When was that?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: Now tell me, I'm going to ask you a very important question.  These activities and the development of your youth congresses and all that went after, why was that done?  Was it done perhaps to show the rest of the country that things can also happen here and that the youth in the area must not be thought of negatively, or what was the actual reason?

ROGER KACHERO RAMASITSI: The actual reason was that as we came to realise that this independence which had been granted by the South African Government, it was null and void because the truth is that actually it was no independence at all, it was just, what can I say, it was just a mickey mouse independence, so the youth came to be aware of that.  So the general feeling amongst the youth was that we have to fight to see this banana republic returned back to where it belongs, the South African Government at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that a genuine feeling amongst the youth or was it just to show the other youth that you are their equals politically?