Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

UNKNOWN: I have left this out, I didn't know if it was relevant or not.  My father was friends with, and I don't know his name, a Mr Ben Turock's father and so Ben Turock was one of them, and the other people I am not terribly aware of.  My father, as I said I didn't attend meetings, I wasn't an activist. I joined because of my political sympathies at the time, although I was politically aware, I was interested in music and studying. But I was also interested in the injustice that was happening. But as far as I know my father was great friends with Joe Slovo and a lot of people who were involved, but Ben Torock's name springs to mind.  There was a lady, a girl by the name of Kaplan, I can't remember her first name, and a few other people.  At my house where the recruiting meeting was held, there was only the person whose name I forget now, he had a bad skin, that's all I remember.  But they were all friends of mine. It wasn't a meeting of the Congress of Democrats, it was a meeting of my friends, with a member of the Congress of Democrats attempting to recruit people.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: Joyce Seroke?

MS SEROKE: You mention this letter which you sent to the Rand Daily Mail, would you just tell us the context of that letter, what was in that letter?

UNKNOWN: Now this is 26 years ago, I think. I can't remember exactly, but I don't think it was a letter out of the ordinary. It was a letter which was a response to somebody else who had written a racist letter to the Rand Daily Mail and I had decided I would reply to this, and I
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replied.  I don't think the Rand Daily Mail would have printed it if it was in any way going to get them in the sort of trouble which it did.  Well, it really didn't, it got me into trouble, but the letter was anti-Government and anti the person who wrote the letter.  The laws were so strict at that time, with 90 or 180 day detention, I can't remember again, but you know, people were very careful what they wrote and I think the Rand Daily Mail were very careful of what they printed at the time.  This may have happened even after Lawrence Gander and Benjamin Pogrom were arrested, I am not sure.  So the letter, I don't think was the strongest letter in the world.  The security, however, believed that I wrote a much strong letter and that was their decision to drive me to the Rand Daily Mail and demand the original letter, which was handed over.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: Mr Ozynski, partly the Commission has got to assist the Government in formulating a reparations policy. I would like to ask you to tell us what you are thinking is around what should be done for people whose rights were severely violated in the past.

UNKNOWN: I have waited for an opportunity to talk about this a little. I won't go on for long on this. I believe you are running late.
 I think if there is any importance in the case, and I am leaving out my own personal agonies and the family and everything, and loss of money and the sort of poverty that has existed since then with me and my family ever since.  They took away every cent for the defence, loss of jobs and things like that.  I think the lesson that must be learnt, I learnt, and which followed with Achmat Timol and Biko, 
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was that the independence of the judiciary at times can be a fallacy, and that when a judiciary ceases to be independent, it should be interfered with, and I am distressed to see that the lesson has not been learnt.  In my case the Attorney-General, the Minister of Justice, the security police as in all the following cases with Steve Biko, with Achmat Timol and if I might add today, there are people who may shoot five people on a farm and the Judge may turn around and say the case was ill-prepared by the police.  To me this is appalling. I don't believe in cases being ill-prepared. There is no such thing as ill-prepared.  And if the Government will not interfere in situations where Judges will not act in a way they are supposed to act, this is a derogation of their duty, then the independence of the judiciary, I don't say should be abolished, but there should be some method whereby Judges - I have got to bring another case, even a non-political case, two cases.  One of - and I could be accused of having, talking libel here. I am not going to say ...

MS MKHIZE: Can I just stop you there. I don't want you to be interrupted.  I have read your statement, you seem to have strong feelings about how the judiciary should maintain its independence.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Thank you very much. I will ask Yasmin Sooka to formally thank you now.

UNKNOWN: Right.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Ozynski, I think your story is an example of what happened in our country during the early years, especially when people were harassed simply for belonging to different parties. I think your views on the judiciary is
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a topic which is discussed quite frequently by lawyers themselves. I think that there are efforts being made to conform the judiciary. In fact, tomorrow we have a leading human rights lawyer who will be making a submission on how she thinks the judiciary and the legal system should be transformed, to support human rights, no matter who the political party is in Government at the time.
 Thank you for your story.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE).
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