Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-23

REV XUNDU: Is there something that I can finally ask all of you about the treatment.  Is there anything that the Commission can do for you or how we can commemorate the
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victims of Molteno, even if it is a building or anything to commemorate the people, the victims of Molteno.  What can the Commission do?  Just a few words.

UNKNOWN: I hear what you are saying and that is very important, but my problem is that I do not want, when there is any compensation or any stone that it must be for Keli only.  That is the problem that I have.  There are plenty of victims, there are many victims that fell for freedom.
 It is not good that only Keli should be commemorated, I want that when these people are commemorated, that all the parents sit down that have lost children and that we as a body can decide what the Commission can do to honour the slain hero's.  
 What I cannot say now, is what should be done, because I cannot say do this for Keli, I am thinking of all the victims of Molteno and the people should decide as a joint body what should be done.  And in that way we can come forward with one voice and ask the Commission to do something for us.

REV XUNDU: Thank you very much Ma'am.  Please give us a chance.  Thank you very much Ma'am.  That is what we wanted.
 (tape starts)... you want the chance to discuss it with the community and hear what you people could come up with.  That maybe as a community you could decide in which way the victims could be commemorated.  We thank you very much Ma'am and I would like to hand back to you now, Mr Chairman.

BONGANI FINCA: Are there any questions?  Ntsikelelo Sandi.

MR SANDI: Mrs Denya, in Molteno are there any farms owned by Whites or were there White owned farms back then that are around Molteno, surrounding Molteno?

UNKNOWN: Yes sir, there are White owned farms surrounding
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the area.  There are White owned farms surrounding the area.

MR SANDI: Can I ask you to come near the microphone when you answer.

UNKNOWN: There are White owned farms around Molteno.

MR SANDI: On that day of the funeral there, did you say that it was very full?  That there were a lot of soldiers and policemen?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there were many of them.  Even some of the vehicles which they used, had East London registrations.

MR SANDI: Did the White farmers, were they asked to take any - to participate in the activities of the soldiers on that day?

UNKNOWN: The soldiers of Molteno, before in the time of the old regime sir, we killing people.  The farmers would come out and harass the people all night and they would come and take old men and tell them to do things and White, old women would also get told to take burning cars and thrown them away.
 Even children would be harassed.  Children are retarded in Molteno because of that kind of torture.

MR SANDI: Were they involved with the police and soldiers?

UNKNOWN: The police and soldiers and the INKATHA were harassing the people.

MR SANDI: Mrs Denya, do you still work for Mrs Pretorius?

UNKNOWN: I still work for Mrs Pretorius.

MR SANDI: Thank you very much.

BONGANI FINCA: Let us just get a chance here to say something.  Mrs  Denya, the manner in which you have testified here in front of the Commission has made it clear that you are a leader that we can be very proud of as South African people.
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 It is also very clear that you are a strong, a pillar of support in Molteno.   You have touched this house with your testimony and the manner in which you understand democratic principles, even when you explain the manner in which you do not just think about yourself but as a leader, your vision is scattered over your community, you do not think about yourself in isolation, but you know that Molteno's people are a community.
 If only there were more like you whose minds were not restricted to themselves and what could be done for them, I think that this whole house is very grateful to you, for the statement which you made by applauding you without even asking for my permission.
 It is just a gesture that they salute you, all of them as a leader.  And a leader who is welcomed by the community, we have taken cognisance of your requests, but I think the one that has touched us most is the one where you have asked that the current Government must pay attention to the fact that there are no changes in the Molteno area.
 There is nothing that touched me more than what you have said then where you said that you can see the change in South Africa, but that there is still no change in Molteno.
 The oppressors are still doing as they please, Els and company.  
 This Commission will try as speedily as possible to send an urgent letter to the Minister of Defence who had also appeared in front of this Commission and can look at what happened to - at the oppressing of people's rights since he also experienced an infringement of rights and tell him that we have heard this type of cry. 
 There is nothing as sore as the fact that all Molteno's QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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witnesses is going to be harassed once again, when they go home.
 And finally in my summary, I want to say that I want to thank you for mentioning the name of Mrs Minnie Pretorius.  Even if you say that you went to her and she took you to the police station in her vehicle, as Dr Romachela has said, the cruelty of an employer, the employer of Mr Ndletyana, who when his son had been shot, and the bullet had penetrated his head from behind and came through the side of his face and he asked his employer is he could please accompany his son to the hospital, and so that he could see in case his son died along the way, he was told that if you leave, take everything that belongs to you and don't come back.
 We appreciate the fact that we could hear the name of Mrs Minnie Pretorius and be able to compare it to the name of the employer of mr Ndletyana.  This Commission is a Truth Commission and we thank you that we are grateful, that these names surfaced here in the Commission and the humanity of some people is exposed, and the lack thereof in other people.
 We would now like to proceed to our last witness for the day.