Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-10

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Chief Commandant Kloppers told us that he had just come from an order group meeting and that he had received orders there that we were going to execute the hard option that night and that they wanted to see corpses.

MR PRINSLOO: Was anything else said which you can recall?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Yes, that this would be the real McCoy.

MR PRINSLOO: Anything else?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Not as far as I can recall.

MR PRINSLOO: And what did you understand by executing the hard option and that this was the real McCoy and that there had to be corpses?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: As I understood it hard options would mean that people would be killed or injured.  That's what I understood under the concept of hard option.

MR PRINSLOO: And what did you understand when a homemade pipe shotgun was given to you?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: When I received the pipe shotgun I knew that people would be killed because two weeks before the time we were placed on assistance because of the revolution which was supposed to begin.  It was said to us that the revolution was about to begin.

MR PRINSLOO: When was it said to you that the revolution was about to begin?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: The night of the 12th of December, at the roadside, it was said to us that the revolution was at hand.

MR PRINSLOO: Who said this to you?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Mr Kloppers said this to us.

MR PRINSLOO: After you had completed the parade, received the gun and received your orders did you go anywhere from there?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: If I remember correctly we arrived in four or five vehicles at the Roadhouse and after that we went to Mr Badenhorst's house because his parents were away on vacation.

MR PRINSLOO: And what happened at Mr Badenhorst's house?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: There Chief Commandant Kloppers decided that only two vehicles would be used for the operation.

MR PRINSLOO: And whose vehicles would it be?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: The Mercedes of Commandant Martins and the Sentra of Mr Visser.

MR PRINSLOO: Were any changes brought to the vehicles?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.  The number plates were closed up with masking tape.

MR PRINSLOO: Did that happen with both vehicles?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Visser's vehicle as well as Mr Martin's vehicle?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And at Mr Badenhorst's house, did anyone consume any alcohol?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Not that I can remember.

MR PRINSLOO: And from Mr Badenhorst's house, where did you go then?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: We then went to Andre Visser's apartment.

MR PRINSLOO: He's also one of the applicants?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Was any alcohol consumed at Mr Visser's home?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Mr Visser produced a bottle of whisky and each one of us took a sip of the whisky.

MR PRINSLOO: How full was the bottle of whisky?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: I would say it was about three quarters of the way full.

MR PRINSLOO: And did Mr Diedericks use any alcohol?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: I don't know.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the alcohol had been consumed, where did you go then, from Mr Visser's house?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: From there we moved in the vehicles to Commandant Martin's small holding.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened there?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: It was said to us that we would establish a roadblock and reflectors and a blue light were produced.

MR PRINSLOO: And after they were brought out, or let me put it this way, was any alcohol consumed at Mr Martin's house that you knew or saw of?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: As far as I recall I think there was brandy.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you drink any brandy?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: No.

MR PRINSLOO: And from Mr Martin's small holding, where did you go then?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Mr Martin, Chief Commandant Kloppers, Gert Diedericks and I travelled in the Mercedes and the others travelled in the Sentra and so we drove among the small holdings because we didn't know where to establish the roadblock.

MR PRINSLOO: Did anything happen while you were traveling which you saw yourself, not what you heard about?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.  Two Black men were moving along the side of the road, the Sentra stopped and the occupants climbed out and assaulted those two Black men.

MR PRINSLOO: Did the other vehicle join up with you again?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And where did you go then?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: From there we went to the Ridora Crossing.

MR PRINSLOO: And when you say Ridora Crossing, in which area would that be?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That would be on the Ventersdorp, Krugersdorp road.

MR PRINSLOO: And what happened there.  Did you stop, what happened?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: With our arrival there Mr Kallie Meiring was instructed to point out our positions to us, who had to stand where, who had to do what, who had to position the blue light and so forth.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Meiring is also an applicant in this case?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that with regard to the establishment of a road block?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Kallie Meiring was instructed because he had previous knowledge of roadblocks.

MR PRINSLOO: Was a roadblock set up?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And which function would you perform at this roadblock?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Me and Mr Badenhorst would stand behind the chevron board for observation.

MR PRINSLOO: While you took up your positions and the roadblock was set up, did any vehicles approach?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Chief Commandant Kloppers and Commandant Deon Martins told us what the routine would be, that they would drive along, that they would seek out a target, that they would turn around and drive back and flash their headlights at us, that we had to drive along then and pull the vehicle off the road.

MR PRINSLOO: Was any use made of the blue light or any light whatsoever?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct, the blue light was mounted on the Sentra.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know who manned it?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Andre Visser.

MR PRINSLOO: Were any vehicles pulled off the road?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And regarding those vehicles that were pulled off the road, was anything done to them?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: The vehicles were searched and questions were put and I assume that the occupants were asked to which political parties they belonged, where they were going, what they were doing and so forth.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you participate in the inspection or the searching of the vehicles?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: No.

MR PRINSLOO: What did you do?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: As I've mentioned, I stood behind the chevron board looking out for police or military vehicles which might be approaching.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you perform any other function there?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: That was my function.

MR PRINSLOO: ... (indistinct) according to the evidence a Honda Ballade and a Toyota vehicle were pulled off the road.  Is that correct?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: It was a Toyota Cressida and a Honda Ballade.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened then?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Chief Commandant Kloppers and Commandant Martins drove along, identified a target, flashed their headlights and gave us the signal to pull the vehicles off the road.  At that stage we didn't know that it was a Honda and a Cressida.  At approximately 250 metres before the roadblock the vehicles stopped.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened after that?

MARIUS ETIENNE VISSER: Chief Commandant Kloppers warned us to be careful because people could climb out the vehicles or remove things.  And the vehicle moved closer to us and the men who was the traffic cops when the vehicles were completely off the road told them to get out of the vehicles.

MR PRINSLOO: Is this now the Cressida and the Honda Ballade?