Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

JERRY RICHARDSON: Mrs Mandela herself.  I am sorry, I can't say Mrs Mandela, I am used to saying Mommy, as well as Zinzi.  When I got there some of the members of the Mandela United Football Club, they said coach is back now.  When I got into the house, I came across Mommy and Zinzi.
 We sat down, I was welcomed warmly.  They offered me tea and I told them as to how I had worked.  We sat chatting away and I explained to them as to how I got out of prison.  I explained to them that I had denied everything.  I spoke about a certain Solomon Zwane, he was a President of White City Brothers.
 They welcomed me very warmly.  They invited other comrades to welcome me as well.  Amongst the comrades were Charles Zwane, Sonwabo and the others.

MR RICHARD: Were there any suspicions voiced to you about yourself?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, I could say Charles Zwane as well as Sonwabo.  We were brought some tins, some liquor, Amstel because I am beer drinker and I love drinking.  We started drinking and that is when they approached me and asked me as to why I had been released earlier than they expected.
 I related the story to them that I devised some means so that I could be released.  Sonwabo said to me that I am an informer, that is why they released me earlier than they were supposed to.
 I said he should take a stand as a Commander and deal with me as he was alleging that I was an informer.  And at that stage, I stopped drinking because I was scared that they were going to assault me or kill me whilst I was drunk.
 Charles Zwane intervened and said that they trusted me as a coach and they did not believe that I was an informer.

MR RICHARD: Yes, but then they decided to keep you there until they had made further enquiries and there was this discussion about bringing Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala, would you please carry on from there?

JERRY RICHARDSON: As we were still arguing, I could see that I wanted the Commander to actually discipline me as he was alleging that I was an informer.  He went out to Mommy and told Mommy.  Charles followed and I was left all by myself in the study room, but not inside, we were just sitting on the floor, just next to the study room.
 They came back.  Sonwabo came out with an ultimatum and said as from today, you are being brought under house arrest, you are not to go anywhere outside the gate and you are not to meet any people or members of the public, you should just remain in the house.
 And they told me that I was going to sleep in the house because my life was in danger, so they were trying to secure my safety.
 I accepted that.

MR RICHARD: And then the decision was made to find, to bring or to produce the two young persons, that is Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala, is that not correct?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, that is correct.  That is what happened through Guybon because he is the one that told me that he is going to bring these two young men because they were the culprits.  I asked them as to what they had done.  He said they were suspects and he wanted to take me with to fetch these two young men, because they trusted me.
 We organised some transport, Guybon Kubheka drove.

MR RICHARD: And were they not found very near the house, indeed on the property?

JERRY RICHARDSON: There is a very big problem, because there was a decision, so I do not know whether these youths were at the garage or the back rooms.  But Guybon came back with those two youths, I saw them with my own eyes.

MR RICHARD: And how did they appear, were they in a good state of health or were they injured, or showed no injuries?

JERRY RICHARDSON: They had been severely assaulted and Guybon is just like me, their hands were tied as well as their feet.  I saw them at the garage.  I had given R20-00 to the driver earlier on and Guybon said I should assault.
 The intention was to assault him and leave him.  Then I assaulted them and left them.   Guybon said we should take them back, but I did not want to because I had earlier been accused of being an informer, so I did not want to get involved.

MR RICHARD: For how long were they, after you saw them in the house that day shortly after your release, still kept in the house, and if you know where, where were they kept?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I am not really sure as to how many days they stayed because I was very weary of Sonwabo.  I knew that my life was in danger at that stage.

MR RICHARD: Right.  Then, the next question, the next question that comes about, was there was discussion and debate as to what to do with Lolo Sono and Sibuniso Shabalala.  Were you present when there was that conversation?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, I was present.

MR RICHARD: Now, what was the conversation?

JERRY RICHARDSON: They discussed the spot at which they were to dump the two youths.  A very secluded spot and each and everyone of them came up with a suggestion and an opinion as to where the two youths should be dumped.
 They were not talking straight for one to understand.  They were using some codes to communicate.

MR RICHARD: Now, you are describing a situation where it appeared that a decision had already been made to, as you say, dump them.  What does the word dump mean?

JERRY RICHARDSON: This is a very beautiful word.  If you dump something, you dump it because you don't want to make use of the thing any more.  This means that you kill the person, and you dump the body, where nobody else could find it.

MR RICHARD: Who made that decision, was it Sonwabo or Guybon or any one else?

JERRY RICHARDSON: This came from Sonwabo and Mommy was a participant as well because she was the one who gave the go ahead or the green light for anything to happen.

MR RICHARD: Now, very well, so the decision that was left to be made, was where and how?  Now, how long did it take for that decision to be made, was it one day or a number of days?

JERRY RICHARDSON: If I am not mistaken, I think they took one or two days.   This was a very serious job that needed to be carried out and I showed them some spot where they could dump the bodies.  I took Guybon and showed him quite several of these spots.

MR RICHARD: Is it not so that Guybon asked you for a safe place and you said that in your opinion the safest place is a mine dump on the outskirts of a hostel, is that not correct?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, that is true.

MR RICHARD: Now, the next morning, there was a conversation between yourself and Mrs Mandela, what was that?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I think I have forgotten as to what we talked about.  I am not sure whether we discussed the matter that I should go with Guybon to the dumping site or I should go and look for the dumping site and report back.  I don't remember.

MR RICHARD: Well, the following morning according to the notes, 1 December 1988, Guybon came at approximately eleven o'clock, and said that today we will solve this problem with Sonwabo.   Is that not correct?

JERRY RICHARDSON: That much I don't remember.

MR RICHARD: Now, who went to the mine dump?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Shakes was driving, it was Guybon, Ninja as well as myself.  We took some spades and shovels at my place in Muzimhuhle and went to the mine dump.
 We did not look at all suspicious, we went up to focus place and the car was parked quite a distance.  We went on foot, because Guybon knew the place very well.

MR RICHARD: Were you with the two young men, the youths and the rest of the company or were you somewhere else?

JERRY RICHARDSON: At the time that they were dumping the youths, we were left in the car, myself and Shakes.  Guybon and Ninja went up with the two youths, tied together.

MR RICHARD: How long were they away for?

JERRY RICHARDSON: It was late in the afternoon and it was slightly dark, we were next to the hostel.  I think it was quite a few minutes.  I can't estimate.  I am not able to tell you as to how many minutes they left.

MR RICHARD: And then, what happened?