Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-10-28

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: They just spoke of the evidence, I did not see the cap.  They said they found the cap and they also said they found my hair samples but I did not see all this.

MR PRIOR: And on the night of the attack you were in fact wearing a cap, is that correct?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I was not wearing a cap, however in court it was said that the cap had my hair on it - I was also quite shocked.

MR PRIOR: Because the witness Sibaya in his statements refers to one of the people leaving the dark coloured car entering the white Audi, that one of them had said something to the effect that he had left his cap behind.  Do you want to comment on that?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: That's probably Sibaya's cap, it's not mine.

JUDGE WILSON: Are you suggesting Mr Sibaya was in this car?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Sibaya can answer that, I cannot comment on that.

MR PRIOR: Finally, this gentleman Mr Cerqueira who was shot by Mr Gqomfa as you were leaving - the man at the robots, do you know why he was shot?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I said Sir, when I was by the car before the car reached the robot, there was a sound and Luyanda was shooting - I said that already.

MR PRIOR: Did you see the person who Mr Gqomfa was shooting at?  Did you see his face for example or anything about him?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No, Sir.  Luyanda shot but I did not see anyone.

ADV GOZA: Mr Chair, there's something that didn't come across clearly in translation, the applicant said there was gun fire and then Gqomfa shot - if it can be cleared up because it could be important.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further question.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: We accept that.

MR PRIOR: Sorry Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: That the shooting by - according to this witness, the shooting by Gqomfa took place after this witness had heard a shot.

MR PRIOR: Well, I hear what he says, I don't accept the veracity of that and I ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Anyway, that's the evidence that was not interpreted properly.

MR PRIOR: Yes, I accept that that is the interpretation.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you finished?

MR PRIOR: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Similarly to the procedure yesterday, I have not yet enquired whether any of the victims wish to answer any questions.

CHAIRPERSON: No, as far as you're concerned?

MR PRIOR: As far as I'm concerned, yes.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman, just for the record also - I don't recall Mr Prior challenging Mr Gqomfa's evidence that he had - in fact it's in the statement
"That shots were fired in my direction and I responded by firing shots out of the window"

CHAIRPERSON: That's a matter for argument.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Well, it concerns ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Yes?

CHAIRPERSON: We have that on record.
	Are there people present who are directly involved as victims or dependants who have questions to ask of this witness?  Will you come forward please?  Do sit down.  What are you full names?

MR JANUARY: My full names are Michael January, Mr Chairman, I was a victim in the Heidelberg Tavern.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr January?

MR JANUARY: I have quite a few questions Mr Chairman, I will direct to Mr Mabala.
	You said you were sitting in the back of the car and Mr Madasi was sitting in front with Mr Maxeba, so that would mean you were sitting next to Mr Sibeko in the car, is that correct?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Correct, Sir.

MR JANUARY: So you confirm Mr Sibeko was at the Heidelberg Tavern?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes.

MR JANUARY: Did you know if Mr Sibeko had a rifle, was he given a rifle to use in the attack?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes, he had a rifle.

MR JANUARY: Okay, you have further testified that you returned to Khayelitsha after the attack and you returned to a house there, do you know whose house this was?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: It was our meeting point where we usually gathered.

MR JANUARY: You don't know to whom the house belonged?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I don't know whose house it was.

MR JANUARY: Was there any people at this house waiting for you when you returned from the Heidelberg Tavern?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: No, it was only us.

MR JANUARY: When you returned the weapons to - I think you - I think the evidence you've given earlier was the weapons were received from Mr Siyolo, did you - was the weapons returned to Mr Siyolo after the attack?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I can't answer about the weapons, it is Luyanda who will answer in connection with the weapons.

MR JANUARY: Mr Chairman, will I be allowed to question Mr Gqomfa regarding the return of the weapons and to who he returned the weapons to?

CHAIRPERSON: Just finish the questions you have to ask of this witness.

MR JANUARY: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further question to this particular witness Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JANUARY

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is there anybody else who wishes questions to be asked of this witness?  Please state your full names for purposes of the record.

MR CORNELIUS: Quinton Cornelius.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Cornelius?

MR CORNELIUS: Mr Chairman, I'd like to ask Mr Mabala - you acknowledged that Mr Gqomfa was shooting from outside the vehicle back at somebody in the street, what rifle - what type of rifle was he using?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I can't remember what kind of rifle he was using but I know that he was the one who was shooting - I can't remember Sir.

MR CORNELIUS: As I was lying on the floor inside the tavern, I heard definite and separate fire from two different rifles inside the
tavern.  There were six of you in the attack, you at the vehicle, Gqomfa and Jantjie outside, Madasi inside and the driver - that accounts for five, where was the sixth person?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Please repeat that question Sir.

MR CORNELIUS: From my recollection which is quite clear as I did not faint or anything inside, I heard two separate rifle fire shots shot from two separate rifles inside the tavern very, very close from us.  There were six of you, five have more or less been accounted for, yourself outside by the vehicle, the driver, Gqomfa and Jantjie in front of the tavern, Madasi inside, where was the sixth person?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: The driver is the sixth person.

MR CORNELIUS: That's the fifth.  The driver ...[intervention]

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Let me count for you, it was myself Gqomfa, Monwabisi, Sibeko ...[intervention]

MR CORNELIUS: Monwabisi - what was his other name?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Jantjie.

MR CORNELIUS: Right.

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: It was myself, Gqomfa, Monwabisi, Sibeko - myself, Gqomfa - okay, myself, Madasi, Maxeba the driver, Monwabisi, Sibeko, Luyanda - six.

MR CORNELIUS: I do not understand where Sibeko was.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the question you wish to put?

MR CORNELIUS: The question is, where - what was Sibeko's location?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I can't remember where Sibeko was positioned but he was the sixth person that you're referring to.

MR CORNELIUS: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any other persons wishing to put questions?  Yes, please come forward and just place your full name on the record.

MR FOURIE: Mr Chairman, my name is Johan Fourie and my daughter Lindy Anne was murdered in this incident.  Please pardon my ignorance of legal terms but I would like to refer to the interpretation of the words in paragraph 2 of Mr Mabala's affidavit.  Amongst others it says
"Less the context states otherwise"
I'm at a loss, I don't understand what that means.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I think this witness won't be able to answer that, the attorneys will be able to explain that to you.

MR FOURIE: Okay.  In paragraph 4 of his affidavit he refers to other attacks in other parts of the country - I know they don't concern this incident but I would like to know anyway about the vehicles used in these attacks.
	Whose vehicles were used and how did you get them?