Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-09

WITNESS:   Yes, there is.  After all these things that happened to Austin it took me a long time for it to pass in my mind - for me to come to terms with it.  I used to wake up at night and feel very scared.  I kept on seeing the picture of Austin lying down and I was helpless.  I couldn't help him.  I didn't want to be in a situation where I would have to talk about Austin.  I only spoke because I was forced to speak about this thing, like for instance going to the police, giving the statements there.  My Granny is a person who has got diabetes.  This affected her greatly, because she is a person who has to get treatment all the

DR MAGWAZA: /time, and

DR MAGWAZA: 11B/14 time, and they said she had high blood pressure.  I am tortured.  I don't know how I could put this.  The most painful thing is that I do not have peace.  I don't have peace with Mvuyane and I'm not able to make peace now because Mvuyane is no longer there, because they said there is no peace beyond the grave.  Mvuyane was an old person.  He knew what he was doing.  If Austin had done something, even if he had killed a person with a gun, I think the law - as a legal person, he was required to arrest him, not to kill him himself without fighting.

DR MAGWAZA: Nombuso, we respect the way you feel, but what can help you, as far as I'm concerned, is if you and your Granny need assistance with your health and psychologically and emotionally, maybe when you leave here you must contact people who can give you that kind of assistance.  Thank you.

MRS GCABASHE: Nombuso, we have heard about these events.  I've got a small question.  Mvuyane came home.  You said, "Mvuyane said, 'Are you shooting at me?  Are you shooting at me?'".   If you could tell us, had you already heard the gunfire at that time?

WITNESS:   I heard the gunfire and then he said, "Are you shooting at me?"  Austin answered at that time.  He said, "How can I shoot you, because I don't have a gun?  You have searched for it.  You didn't find it".  He answered very clearly, because I could hear all his words.  After that there was a second gunfire. Austin cried and the gunfire went for the third time.  He said, "Please, don't shoot at me".

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions?   We thank you very much, and Granny, very much for coming here.  We are going to
 /try and see
11B/17 try and see if there could be any assistance that you can get.  We request that God give you peace.  Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Mr Chairperson, I call the next witness - Mrs Rosemary Cele.  Could we have the earphones on, please?  Can you hear me all right?  Thank you very much.  If you could speak up a little bit.  Let me say how pleased we are to see you and thank you very much for coming to the Commission.  We want to hear your story and it will be a story about the killing of your son, Bongani Edwin Cele and we know that this is very painful, but we are glad that we are trying to get the whole picture of what has been happening in our country and hope it will help you by simply having a chance to talk with us, with this audience and, indeed, with the country.  Before I hand over to one of my colleagues, could you please stand for the taking of the oath.

ROSEMARY CELE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  You may be seated.  You are now under oath.  I am going to ask my colleague, Mr Lyster, to take over from me.  Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Thank you for coming in, Mrs Cele, today and you have heard the previous witness telling about the death of her beloved family member and we understand some of the pain too that you have experienced.  Please will you start by telling us something about Bongani and the rest of your family.  How old was he at the time?  Was he schooling?  Just that sort of thing, so that we have a picture of who he was.

WITNESS:   Bongani was my son.  I gave birth to him in 1966, on the 18th July.  In 1980 the police started harassing me.  Every time when they came to harass me, they would say they were looking for ... (inaudible).   I didn't know where they were.  They wouldn't let three days pass by.  They would be all in my  /house

MR LYSTER: 11b/22 house with huge guns, big ones and short ones.  Some of them, they would put them on the floor.  Round about 1981, 1982 - it started in 1983, they started chasing around Bongani.  Bongani ran away to my home.  When the police arrived at my home they would say, "This whole family is troubled", because they said my brother was an ANC trainer.  We didn't know anything about that.  We didn't even see him carrying a gun.  Even if he came to fetch them, he wouldn't be carrying anything.  They arrived at my place to search for the exiles.  They wanted to see the exiles.  They said to me, "If your children arrive here, don't keep them here, otherwise you would spend ten years in gaol".  One day they arrived while I was dressing.  I only had petticoat and my bra, because I was preparing myself to go to work, and they picked me up.  They took me into their van.  I was half naked.  They said I should just go in that condition.  They searched all over for Bongani and ultimately he went to stay at Izingolweni.  He would come to my house and stay two days, and the police would come and Bongani would run away.  He used to sleep outside.  In 1987 they were searching for him for the last time now.  I didn't know his whereabouts, because I heard news that he had died at home.  He was accused - he was told every time that he is an ANC member.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Cele, can you just tell us, when you say he had died at home, do you mean your home at Izingolweni or in Lamontville?

WITNESS:   He used to go home at Izingolweni.  That's where we have a farm, at Izingolweni.  He would run away from my home at go to the other farm at Izingolweni.  In 1987, it was early in the morning.  It was in the month of July.  They called my home, asking for Sikumbuzo.

MR LYSTER: /Sikumbuzo

MR LYSTER: 11B/28 Sikumbuzo is Bongani's brother.  He came into the house and he picked up the telephone and they asked Bongani.  There was one friend of Bongani who is Malinga.  He spoke to Bongani and he said he want to go to the other Bongani.  He's afraid to go alone, can he please accompany him.  That time Bongani was renting a house - was staying at Eqolweni (?).  He was not even far and the police came in, where we thought they were calling from very close ... (pause)

MR LYSTER: 12A/0 Please take your time to recover, Mrs Cele.  Perhaps you could also just tell us where these police were from.  Were they South African Police or KwaZulu Police?  Do you know that?

WITNESS:   They were the SAP.  They pushed him and they took him out.  In those few minutes I tried to send a message with one boy who knew the place where he was.  I said to him, "Go and tell them that they've arrested Sikumbuzo".  He was trying to get to the place where Bongani was.  There were two in hiding and the boy could find them.  They were at Shabalala's place.  When this boy arrived there to tell them the news that Sikumbuzo had been arrested the person who was with Bongani - who was hiding with Bongani - ran away, and Bongani said, "I am now tired of running away.  If it is possible, I would leave tomorrow".  Sikumbuzo never arrived on that day.  Maybe if he could have run away, he could have survived.  Sikumbuzo said the police harassed him, they tortured him and the next day he went together with them to pinpoint where his brother was.  The police took Bongani.  It was the following day at about 10 o'clock in the morning.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Cele, according to your statement, you said that on that day they took him to prison and you didn't see

MR LYSTER: /Bongani

MR LYSTER: 12A/2 Bongani - you were not allowed to see Bongani in prison.  Is that correct?