Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-23

MR P DU PLESSIS: So that's when it arose.  Now just before you get to that, what was the problem or the motivation as to why a person such as yourself who'd been a Special Forces operative, could not attack the enemy in normal "operations" abroad or outside the borders of the country?  Was there any reason why it had to be done in a covert way?

WOUTER J BASSON: It was so, it was the situation that the enemy at that stage was better organised than us, his methods, places of instruction, his access routes etcetera, they changed that more frequently and there wasn't any specific information which was known to us, we couldn't utilise it in the ways which we were familiar with, so we had to move a more unconventional and covert modus operandi, and we would have a greater chance of success to get closer to the enemy using those unconventional methods and thereby we would disrupt him indirectly.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that would also include acts of violence against the enemy?

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: At that stage, round about '86, you're talking about the enemy, whose enemy are you referring to?

WOUTER J BASSON: Well it was the enemies of the State.  The enemy remained the enemy from the time that I entered the Defence Force to that stage.  As already known, it was the ANC, SACP, PAC, mainly and also the front organisations and their subsidiaries.

MR P DU PLESSIS: During '86, actually '87 until the middle of '88 where you became involved in the internal region, Region 6, were you actively in other regions?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.  Initially I was seconded to Region 2, or placed in Region 2 and I think that included Swaziland and Mozambique, and to a certain extent also Region 7, which was Zimbabwe.  I was allocated to those regions and my role was mainly that of Co-ordinator.  In other words there was a Regional Manager and I was then the Co-ordinator serving under him.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now I think the duties of a Co-ordinator have already been spelt out quite clearly here, if there are any questions relating to that then those questions may be put to you, I'm not going to deal with that now.  But if I understand you correctly, you were utilised exclusively externally?  If we talk about violence against the enemy.

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.  That is quite correct, and at that stage according to my knowledge there was no internal capacity.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now how did it happen that you became involved in Region 6, the internal region?

WOUTER J BASSON: Mr Verster contacted me one day and said that I had to go with him to a place in Johannesburg, Ponte Building, and he said there were people he wanted to introduce me to and he thought that it would be a good idea to relieve me of my other activities and perhaps just retain one or two or three activities from Region 7 and then perhaps to act as a Co-ordinator for these people, people whom I was going to meet.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now you've spelt out that you were the Co-ordinator - or was it spelt out that you were to be the Co-ordinator of Region 6 and what Region 6 entailed?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, at the meeting, I mean I was aware of Mr Burger as a result of reports in the newspaper etcetera.  I didn't know the other people but I had met them and I was told at a next meeting when Gen Joubert was also present, that they would enter the six-month period of uncoupling and that I would act and be appointed officially as the Co-ordinator.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So if I look at Mr Burger's evidence it seems to me that it was only after the recruitment of Burger, Maree and Botha and van Zyl, only after that phase you became involved?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.  I must just add that there was a phase between Mr Burger and Mr Verster and then when Mr Burger agreed and his people were happy to join, at that stage the physical signing of the contract took place and I started officially.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now we know that there was a phase as from June '88 to more-or-less December '88, the last six months of '88, during which these four people mentioned were not active due to an agreement between the Defence Force and the Police that they would not, or that people moving between the Forces would not be active for six months.

WOUTER J BASSON: I don't know if that was the reason or whether they simply had to uncouple and just allow the dust to settle around their resignations and so on.  I don't know what the real...

MR P DU PLESSIS: But they were not active, that's the point.

WOUTER J BASSON: No, they were not.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And you were aware of a cover which they had at Matthysen Bus Services.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I am.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And during those six months you had regular contact with them?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I never went to Matthysen Bus Services.  I saw them at certain places where other people couldn't see us.  I did not want to reveal or disclose my involvement with them at all.

MR P DU PLESSIS: It's not that you had anything against them?

WOUTER J BASSON: No, it was as a result of the structure and as a result of security reasons and from time to time I saw them, not frequently.  They dealt with the administrative things like salaries and so on.  At one point I started to inform people about methods of working and procedures, but it was all done on an informal basis, just to give the people a bit of direction.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So that would have included the covert nature, the fact that there were certain cut-off points, the establishment of a so-called Blue Plan as a cover.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, yes, and this was all done informally.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So it was general orientation?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now it's already been placed on record that the activation of Region 6 only started from January '89, do you agree with that?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, that was the arrangement with them.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And as from that date onwards you started doing the practical co-ordination of their activities and effecting contact between them and Joe Verster, the Managing Director.

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct, yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And also the establishment of the intelligence structure of the CCB?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You also kept a diary of the activities and what you had to do and so forth.

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did you at that stage, from the time that Region 6 became active, had you uncoupled yourself from the other regions or did you still do duties in those regions?

WOUTER J BASSON: As I said earlier, there was a still a person in Region 7 and Region 4, that would be Zimbabwe, Zambia, there was still a person who was active there in respect of the handling of indirect members.  The person didn't want to work for somebody else, so I kept him as a project.  There were also other projects, I'm not sure whether it was one or two or three, but there were still other projects which I still carried with me, apart from my handling of Mr Burger.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Just before we continue, Mr Burger has already testified regarding his status in that he wasn't initially involved with the other Regional Managers and that he didn't visit your offices, what is your comment from your side?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, once again due to his high profile, Mr Verster was rather hesitant to reveal his involvement in the organisation, he didn't want to disclose it to the other Regional Managers and we worked on the basis that I did most of the general co-ordinating and would convey that to him and that Mr Verster would go out ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Basson, you said earlier that when you uncoupled from the Special Forces, you had to establish your own premises for the CCB.

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: These are the premises you're talking about that Mr Burger didn't go to because of his high profile?