Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to proceed.  We have three other cases here and we have to finalise these before we adjourn this evening.  We might continue until very late.
RECORDING SWITCHED OFF
ON RESUMPTION - WITNESS IN MIDDLE OF TESTIMONY
 ... supervisor here at work.  One of the sections that he used to supervise was the typing section.  So he arrived.  It was Mr De Klerk.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Could you please just stop right there.  I would like to report to the person who is supposed to guide you.  In Mr Matomela's statement he has covered number one.  Number two he has just covered - he was just dealing with number three.  Let's continue, Sir. I am sorry to disrupt you.

WITNESS: Our supervisor, Mr De Klerk was with another gentleman, also White, but I did not know who he was.  When they got in he instructed me to take this typewriter and go with this gentleman, because I didn't know anything, but I just thought that they were going to service the typewriter.  So I took the typewriter. Then I followed.  We went to the
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car. We got in.  Then I was taken to the police camp.    We got into an office the size of this platform.  
 The first question that he asked was, do I know any insulting letter that was typed by this typewriter.  Because apparently, according to the investigations, the same ribbon that was used in that certain letter that he is talking about, was the same ribbon that was in this typewriter.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sorry, who was insulted by this letter?

WITNESS: It was used to insult the then Prime Minister.  But the letter that he is talking about, I don't know anything about it. It was not in front of me. So I said this is shocking me what you are asking me, because I don't know anything. Because the first thing that I thought was that we were going to service this typewriter.  So then he said to me no, let me tell you the truth.  He told me that he is from a special branch office, he doesn't know who I am, he is Warrant Officer Heunis.  He was only told that he must come and fetch me.  According to the investigations the letter that has been insulting the Prime Minister has been typed on this typewriter that I have been using.

MEMBER OF PANEL: So you were taken to, or put in a prison?

WITNESS: After some interrogation it was now decided that I must be put in prison. I was still quite surprised. Then I was taken to the Old Umtata Prison.  They said they were going to put me there, where I would be interviewed.  That is how I was now arrested.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Could you please tell us how you were tortured, because it looks like that that is what we are going to concentrate on. How much were you tortured, tell us all the details of what happened.

WITNESS: Lady Commissioner, when I got into the prison
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the warder said that they are going to take care of me in prison. I was also taken into the cell. I was shown this cell that I was going to be put in, to be kept in.  
 Now on the following day, the warder came to fetch me. Then I was put into this cell. On the second day of my interrogation I could see that he was now very rude to me.  I could see that no, today he was very angry, he wants something, he wants my body.  I used to say to him no, I don't know what you are talking about.  
 The worst part of it, I didn't even see this letter, so how can I even say anything without even seeing the letter. So they said I have to take off my shoes and my socks.  They took some rocks and they put the rocks inside my shoes, and then I was told to do a frog-jump.  I continued with this frog-jump. While I was doing all this he had a revolver.  I felt a kick in my head.  But that was at the time when one of the sergeants, Sgt Kromhout, he was from Libodi.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Could you please repeat the surname, please.

WITNESS: It was Sgt Kromhout.  He was from Libodi.  While he was still talking to me, I was already falling on the ground.  I was hit in my ears, such that I felt almost deaf. That's how much I was kicked.  They said to me I am going to tell them the truth, I am going to tell them who typed this letter; if it is not you, you are going to tell us who it is, today; if you are not going to tell us today, we are going to kill you here today.  We went on struggling for a long time.
 It was this Warrant Officer Heunis, he kicked me on my mouth and while he was doing this, while he was trying to do it again, then I fought back. I slapped him on his face. I 
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tried to get hold of the revolver.  I could also see that it was already cocked. Then I grabbed it and I threw it away. Then I said exactly what you want to do to me here is to kill me, but I thought what I am going to do now is to take care of myself here.    They were pushing me forward and backwards.  It was such a (indistinct) Revel that helped me out.  He tried now to stop this whole thing. Then he said no, stop, he is going to tell the truth. He tried to calm them down.  
 Sgt Kromhout left and I was again interrogated.  They told me according to the investigations, it is this typewriter that was used to write this letter. Now what I was asking them, this letter that you are talking about, where is it.  Now Warrant Officer Heunis got very angry when I asked about the letter.  
 They took me back to the cell.  Warrant Officer Heunis came to visit me, alone in the cell.  He said to me you must not sign anything, no matter how they try to persuade you, you must not sign anything. Warrant Officer Heunis wants to arrest you, don't sign anything.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sorry, Sir.   Was there anything else they wanted from you, except the letter, was there anything else that the police wanted you for except the letter?

WITNESS: No, there was nothing else before. It is just that we were not on good terms with Mr De Klerk because of the work that he wanted me to do.  He would give me a lot of work and ask me to do this heap of work.  And yet, the others were just given small amounts of work.  Even when it came to overtime, I was the only one who was going to work overtime, not the other Whites.
 Now it was from then, that was the time he didn't like 
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me very much.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Now this letter that you are talking about, did you ever see the letter?

WITNESS: No, lady, I never saw this letter until I was released.

MEMBER OF PANEL: I would like to conclude now.  Can we now try and talk about these issues. So in other words you were arrested for the letter that was insulting the Prime Minister.  Was it Kaizer Mantanzima?

WITNESS: Yes, it was Kaizer Mantazima who was insulted.

MEMBER OF PANEL: When was the last time you heard about the letter?

WITNESS: The letter I heard about later, was that it is only the first time I heard about it, was when they took me to this camp.

MEMBER OF PANEL: You never heard about this letter in the community at all?

WITNESS: That was the last time I heard about that letter when they told me about the letter in the cell.  I have never heard anything further about the letter before.

MEMBER OF PANEL: After you found out, was there any letter that they were talking about?

WITNESS: I was only accused about this letter lady, I never saw the letter at all. So I don't have evidence that the letter actually existed.

MEMBER OF PANEL: The police, if you know any, could you please tell us the names of these police?