Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, there is this Dube incident in which I was involved.  It so happened that some of our comrades from Thambo section as well as Slovo section, these comrades were attacked.
	It was on a Friday evening and we received information early the following morning that some of our comrades had died, about five of them.  They were shot by the people from the hostel.  Then Sipho and myself were very close friends and we decided to go and see the commander from that other section.  He then explained to us that these comrades were ...(indistinct) but they were just attacked by people.  
	We then decided that we should go and avenge the death of our comrades.  Then it happened that on Saturday afternoon we came together and planned as to which areas or streets and houses should be attacked.  And we came up with five streets which had to be attacked and these streets included Khumalo, Umdagane, Njati, Shabango and Dube.
	I then ...(intervention)

ADV GCABASHE: Sorry, can you just go a little slower, just a bit slower.  Can you go back to the streets, the streets that you decided on?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Khumalo, Umdagane, Njati, Shabango and Dube.
	We then went back to our section.  We brought a few comrades together and briefed on the meeting that we have already had and informed them that we are going to do something but we will get the details on Sunday.
	Sipho then went back to the other side and met with the people.  We decided and discussed on how we should group.  He then came back on Sunday where he found us at a house of one of the Committee of Seven.  When he arrived on Sunday evening we were at a house of one of the Committee of Seven members.  
	He then told us that the attack was going to take place on Monday morning and therefore we should all sleep together in one place so that we should not be late.  So that we should all go together to the other comrades in the other section.
	People who were in charge of firearms brought all the firearms and we went to Sipho's place to spend the evening with our guns.  We woke up, left the following day at half past three.  There were people who were moving ahead of us to ascertain the safety of our  route.
	These people came back at round about four and we left at 4 o'clock, went to Thambo section where we found the commander and his comrades waiting for us.  We decided to wait until there was little light seeing that it was the early hours of the morning, after dawn.  We were concerned that we might injure one another in the dark seeing that we were not quite familiar with one another.
	We were in groups.  In my group I had the company on Monwabisi and Montle Motaung, Vusi, as well as Eddie Kambule and Monday who came from Thambo section.  We decided to have a short briefing saying that we should just go and attack to make sure that they do not continue killing our people.
	The plan was that we were going to wait for the Khumalo group to hit first and we would follow suite.  We went to this house and we spent some time there.  This house had some backyard shacks.  We went into the homestead.  The people in the main house did not see us.  	We spent about two minutes waiting for the first attack to be launched and after some time, realising that the attack was not being launched, we decided to know at the door.  There was a response and we realised that there were people in the house.  We got in, started shooting and started breaking things up, or breaking things down.
	We retreated to Khatelhong which was the nearest place to retreat to.  The other group came back from their attack at Khumalo Street and later on there were police.  These are the incidents to which I can  account.

MR MOPEDI: Were people killed in that shooting?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, some people died but it could not be clearly explained as to whether people died in Dube or how many died in Dube.  The report was just that people died, three or so but we didn't have the  details.

MR MOPEDI: You don't know who those people were?  I'm referring to these people, the three people that you say were killed.

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: We just know that they are members of the IFP, we don't know their identities.

MR MOPEDI: Can you say precisely that you killed someone on that particular day or do you think that you killed someone because you also shot on that day?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, it's possible I might have killed someone because I too was shooting.  Maybe if I was well-trained in the use of a firearm, I could with certainty say that yes, I did kill someone.  But then in this case I'm just not in the position to say with certainty.

MR MOPEDI: And Dube Street - this house in Dube Street, is it also situated in Lusaka-A?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Dube Street is in Thambo section.

MR MOPEDI: The AK47 that you were using, where did you get that AK47?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: This was a section AK47 because each section had its own firearms, so I was using one of those.

MR MOPEDI: What happened to it eventually?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: This was confiscated by the soldiers when they conducted a raid.  They discovered it where I had concealed it.

MR MOPEDI: So it was taken by the soldiers?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: The first incident when you shot at a kombi, who else were you apart from, you say you were with Sipho Tshabalala, who else?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Some of the people in our company were the ones who were watching or taking care of safety for us in the area, to make sure that there are no police around.  That was Aubrey Maile and Tulani Mbatha.

MR MOPEDI: Aubrey Maile?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Yes, that's Aubrey Maile and Tulani Mbatha.

MR MOPEDI: Why was it necessary to attack the house in Dube Street?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: The attack on that day was prompted by the fact that we lost five of our members the previous Friday and therefore it was necessary for us to avenge their death so that they could learn from this experience that we too can fight back, we are not happy about this.

MR MOPEDI: And what kind of firearm were you using?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: When we went to Dube I was carrying an AK47 and when we arrived at the house one of our colleagues or friends was carrying an R4 and he requested that I give him the AK47 because he was not used to the R4.  I wanted to experiment with this R4 and then we exchanged these firearms.

MR MOPEDI: So in other words it means that at one stage you were using an R4?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: This R4 was not from our section.  I have indicated that when we met these comrades from the other section they had their own collection of weaponry.  They had R5 etc.  We only exchanged the use of this firearm at the time of the attack, it was not our section weapon.  I only used it for that day.

MR MOPEDI: Now lastly if I may ask, who was actually giving you some commands?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: Our commander, as I have indicated that  we had Sipho Ngubane but then the overall commander was Mosa Msimango.

MR MOPEDI: I have no further questions, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Advocate Steenkamp, questions?

MR MOPEDI: No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP

ADV SANDI: Mr Ndlovu, at this house you attacked at Dube Street, you do not know the address?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: No, I don't know the address because some of the houses had already been burnt at Dube Street.  The house that we attacked was also burnt like many others, therefore I cannot remember the address.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these attacks all in 1993?

SIMPHIWE NDLOVU: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Mr Mopedi?

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, no re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlovu, thank you very much, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for lunch till 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS