Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-18

MR BRINK: The first matter will be that relating to Mr Mqwendu, Bam and the others.  My friend Mrs Collett appears for these applicants.   I may say that there was only one person interested.  He was notified, that is Sidentini Mplabani.   Notice was sent by registered post.  It was returned by the post office.   The Investigation Unit in the region endeavoured to trace him  at Gobozane Location without success.	Whether he has got wind of the matter I do not know.  I see if he is here.  If I can call his name?

HASSAN MALL: Just give me the name again.  I could not hear you properly.  The name of the interested person.

MR BRINK: Sidenti, S-I-D-E-N-T-I and the surname, M-P-L-A-B-A-N-I, Mplabani.  And that is the widower of the woman who was killed.  I will just see ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: Who is it Mr Brink?  Who is Mr Sidenti?  The person that you have just told us was notified, Mr Mplabani.  What relation is he ...(intervention)

MR BRINK: He is the widower of the deceased.
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MISS COLLETT	116	MR BHEQESI
	Is Mr Sidenti Mplabani here?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Can I just pronounce it properly?  Mr Sidenti Mplabani.  Is he present?  Mr Mplabani?  It does not look like he is present, Mr Brink.

MR BRINK: No.  Thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Very well.  You may proceed.

MR BRINK: The applicants are present and I believe - whether they are sitting in the order, I wonder if they could be in the order that No 1 will be Mr Mqwendu, No 2 will be Bam, No 3 Mr Mbhebe, No 4 Mr Mdyogolo and so on.  If that could be arranged.

MS COLLETT: I first intend calling Sakomzi Bheqesi who will give us the background to the incident that has occurred on the day in question for which the applicants seek amnesty.

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: (sworn states)

MS COLLETT: Now Mr Bheqesi are you a member and were you a member of the ANC Youth League?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: I am a member of the ANC Youth League at Gobozane.

MS COLLETT: Did you live in what was known as the former Ciskei?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes I was residing there.

MS COLLETT: Now, what was the situation in the Ciskei that led to this incident that occurred for which you people seek amnesty?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: On the release of comrade Nelson Mandela in 1990 and the unbanning of all political organisations we here in Gobozane, we also saw ourselves involved highly in the struggle.   This started by showing unity here in Gobozane.  We were all members of the ANC National Congress. EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MISS COLLETT	117	MR BHEQESI
There was no other party than the ANC. 
	On the release of Mandela in 1990 we held a meeting as the youth of Gobozane where we decided everything that belonged to the past Government, where the past Government gave the people cards called 'snips', so that they should pay for those cards.  Those cards people would be able to earn money at certain times, but we as the youth were not aware as to exactly how do people go about getting these cards, but we knew that our parents were paying for these cards.
	We united as the youth in many numbers in Gobozane and we decided to collect all these cards from all the Council committee members.   We collected all these cards from the community and it was mainly kept by adults.  We collected those cards and burnt them.   
	As time went on one day we held a meeting at a school in Gobozane where the ANC Youth League and the ANC and Sanco jointly, held a meeting where people decided collectively that there must be change in the community.
	After lengthy discussions we decided amongst the people that should change in the community, the Councillors must step down and a Chairperson must be elected by the masses and govern in Gobozane.   We had a Councillor from the past regime in Gobozane by the name of Nsibele Mona.  He was at that meeting on that particular day.   He supported the idea and thus there was harmony when we all took one decision.
	As time went on we had to elect a Chairperson to lead the community.  We heard that Brig Qozo who was the leader of Ciskei is calling all the people who were Councillors to Bisho and this we heard through the radios.  And even Mr Nsibele Mona went to that meeting in Bisho.  It was heard EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MISS COLLETT	118	MR BHEQESI
that the Brigadier told the Councillors that they must go back to the villages and govern again.  And they must not associate themselves with the ANC.
	Mr Mona came back from Bisho and he called all his previous committees.   Mr Mona held several meetings with these committee members in his house and this he did in the evenings because he knew that us as the community we did not want him as the chief.  And when he came back from Bisho he did not tell us about all these changes that he is bringing about.

MS COLLETT: Was there conflict between any particular parties in the Ciskei at that stage?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: I do not understand the question.

MS COLLETT: Mr Bheqesi I said to you, was there conflict between any two political parties in the Ciskei at that stage?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes, at that time the African National Democratic Movement was not active in Gobozane.   We as the African National Congress we were united at that time.

MS COLLETT: Did you experience any problems belonging to the ANC Youth League and residing in your area at the time?
(The applicant's microphone was not switched on.)

MS COLLETT: I will repeat the question.  Did you find any problems belonging to the ANC Youth League and living in your area?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: We did not have any problems until ADM became involved in our community.  That is when we could not see
eye to eye with each other.

MS COLLETT: And what was the reason for that?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: ADM in the community was supporting the Chief that he must lead the community but the ANC and the African EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MISS COLLETT	119	MR BHEQESI
National Youth League and Sanco did not see it fit that the Chief must lead the community.   It saw that the Chairperson elected must lead the community.

MS COLLETT: So what evidenced this conflict in the area?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: They wanted the Chief and we did not.  And that is what lead to the conflict.

MS COLLETT: And was the conflict violent?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes, there was a lot of violence then in Gobozane.

MS COLLETT: What used to happen?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: At a meeting held by the ANC Youth League under the oppression that we survived in Gobozane due to the ADM and the Peaceful Security who were protecting the Chief led to us deciding that in order to show our resistance we must go to all the houses of the ADM members and burn them down, in order to show our feelings and the anger and hurt.

MS COLLETT: Had the ANC main structure attempted to negotiate or attempted to settle the dispute that existed in your area?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: The ANC tried under which the Youth League fell, to convince the Chief to step down, but all in vain.
There were no changes and there was no improvement in our lives.  We were just being continually suppressed.

MS COLLETT: As far as the ANC Youth League was concerned was there freedom of association and freedom of political organisations in the area?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Please repeat the question?

MS COLLETT: As far as the ANC Youth League was concerned was there freedom of political movement and association in your area at that time?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: We were not liberated at all.  We were not
EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
MISS COLLETT	120	MR BHEQESI
granted the opportunity to show our political affiliations and even our meetings were disrupted.   There was no free political movement in Gobozane at that time.

MS COLLETT: So was it a decision of the ANC Youth League structure to go and burn the houses of the Headman and the ADM members?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes it was our decision as the youth.

MS COLLETT: And did you in fact do that?