Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-28

MUSA MAHAMBANE: That is the sole reason for me to forward this amnesty application, because I have mentioned that for me it is not important to be freed from prison, but I wanted to reconcile with Mrs Walters, because I remember very well that she was at the scene when her husband died and I even have bad dreams time and again in prison, that is why I decided to use this opportunity to come and reconcile with Mrs Walters, although I'm not the person who actually pulled the trigger, but I know that this happened and it happened because of me, more especially the trauma that she suffered and she's still suffering.  He was shot at while far away from the bank.  The people who were much nearer were not affected, but a person who was at a distance of at least a kilometre from the bank, is the one who was affected.

MS DE KLERK: Surely, you were very close at the time that accused number three shot Mr Walters, is that correct?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes, I was very close.

MS DE KLERK: Isn't there anything that you could have done to have prevented the loss of Mr Walters' life?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: There was nothing for me to do, because when we moved from the bank going up, it was quite a distance from where Mr Walters died, because we were being chased by the police from the bank and even Mr Walters was shot at by mistake because accused number 3 thought that as he was reaching for his waist, he thought that he was reaching for the firearm and when I tried to open the door.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you know that?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: After the incident, I asked him why did he shoot at the white man and then he said he couldn't see properly because we were being followed by a hail of bullets and by mistake the trigger was pulled and then he was shot at.

MS DE KLERK: But you're telling us something different now.  Initially you told us that Mr Walters was shot because he reached in his side, in other words suggesting that he was going to reach for a firearm or something. Now you're expanding on it and you're changing your version now.  Now you're saying that it was because it was done by accident.  What is the true position?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: As I'm saying accused, as we were discussing after this incident, I asked him why he shot at the white man and then he told me that it was a mistake because he thought that the man was reaching for a firearm on his waist, only to find out that he was unfastening the seat belt, that was the discussion that took place after this incident.

MS DE KLERK: So then how does the accident part come into it then?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: I got that from him, that it was not his intention to shoot him, but as we were being chased, we were running away and he panicked and he pulled the trigger.

MS DE KLERK: I understand from the Judgment that Martin Craven, one of the victims, was one of the persons whom you attempted to murder, in that you had fired a shot at him.  Do you know if this is correct, or - he's one of the members of the local police services and he was pursuing you, that's my instructions.  He was actually pursuing you.

MUSA MAHAMBANE: I do not understand the question.

MS DE KLERK: Okay, in terms of the Judgement, okay, and also what Mr Craven has told me, okay, he was the person whom you were shooting at when you were trying to get away after attempting to rob the bank.

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Though I cannot remember that, this happened very quick.

MS DE KLERK: Do you agree, if not - if you couldn't identify Mr Craven, but would you agree with me that you did fire shots at certain protection service gentlemen who were in pursuit of you and your co-accused?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: As I've mentioned before, I cannot remember pulling a trigger, because even in Court no-one ever mentioned that he was shot at with the pump gun, because they were different from the other firearms.

MS DE KLERK: We've heard your evidence in respect of Mr Barkor, that you were inside the bank and accused number one was outside the bank and it was accused number one that shot Mr Barkor.

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes.

MS DE KLERK: In light of that, I'm not going to put any questions to you in respect of Mr Barkor.  In respect of Mrs Druft, what was your role that you played in the actual bank robbery.  When I'm speaking about the bank robbery, I'm speaking about in the bank.  What did you do when you were inside of the bank?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: I am the one who was on the forefront.  I'm the one who started the whole thing and instructing the people to lie down and I went straight to the counters and we collected the money with accused number 3.

MS DE KLERK: Were you the one that snatched Mrs Druft's chain from her neck?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: No, that was accused number 3.  Even in Court he pleaded guilty to that.

MS DE KLERK: So you played no part in the fact that Mrs Druft's chain was snatched from her neck?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: We did not intend to take jewellery, but with me - we wanted to take the money, that is why I did not take part in that.  My focus was on the money, that's all.

MS DE KLERK: And you were the leader of this whole group, according to your evidence, is that correct?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes.

MS DE KLERK: Did you advise your co-accused that you were only going for the money, you weren't going to snatch any jewellery or anything like that?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes, I told them from the beginning that we're not going there to kill anyone, we are just going there to get the money.  We had an agreement.

MS DE KLERK: And you believed them that when they agreed with you that they weren't going to kill anyone and they weren't going to steal anyone's chain from their necks, or any jewellery from anyone?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes, I believed them.

MS DE KLERK: Even though you didn't know them personally, they weren't personal friends of yours, you believed them?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes, I believed them.

MS DE KLERK: Even though you knew that they had previous convictions and that they were criminals, so you called them, you believed them, you trusted them, I think those were your words, you trusted them.

MUSA MAHAMBANE: I also wanted to do the job and if we get the money, that would be finished, so we were not looking for any other thing.

MS DE KLERK: In respect of Mrs Smith, did you at any time point a firearm at her whilst you were in the bank and instruct her to open the safe?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes.

MS DE KLERK: So will I be correct in saying that you were the one that took Mrs Smith then from the controllers room through to the tellers?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Even that Mrs Smith, I cannot remember her identity.  I cannot remember which one is Mrs Smith.

MS DE KLERK: Who was the one that took, was it you or was it accused number 3, that took the lady with the key through to the safe?  Was it you or was it accused number 3?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: I think it was accused number 3, because I was busy collecting the money from the tellers.

MS DE KLERK: So am I correct in saying then that your whole role in this whole bank robbery and the subsequent murders and stuff, was that you recruited accused numbers one, three and the driver who had fled, you went into the bank, all you did was collect the money, accused number three, he snatched Mrs Druft's chain off her neck, he pushed Mrs Smith at gun point with the keys to the safe, all, your whole role was just merely to get the money, that was all.  Am I correct?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: Yes, that is true.

MS DE KLERK: Thank you.  I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS DE KLERK

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair.

MS THABETHE: Mr Mahambane, with regard to the shooting of Mr Barkor, do you think it was necessary for him to be shot at?

MUSA MAHAMBANE: No, it was not necessary at all, but we were inside the bank.  The person who shot at Mr Barkor was outside the bank at the door.  We heard the gun shot as we were still busy inside the bank.