Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-08

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: I was never a member of the Woodstock Vulture Gang.  I lived in that area and the reason why I left was because there was a lot of violence there.  And as far as the statement in this book, I never met this author, I never read the book.  So I don't know how he got this information.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Pearce, you said the Woodstock Vultures Gang, is that Woodstock down in Cape Town?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No, in Wentworth.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, Woodstock in Wentworth.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Wentworth, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MS KOOVERJEE: Mr Pearce, during the course of your operations, was anybody injured?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No.

MS KOOVERJEE: Thank you, Sir, that is the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS KOOVERJEE

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Pearce, just before I ask people if they want to cross-examine you, illegal possession of arms and ammunition you're applying, from the statement it would appear that you're applying in respect of those limpet mines which Mr McBride left to you some time in June 1986.  When you were convicted of for instance, this pipeline incident, were you also convicted of being in unlawful possession of limpet mines?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: All acts ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: So you apply - you don't restrict your application for illegal possession of weapons, to ...(intervention)

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: I was convicted and sentenced for the act.

CHAIRPERSON: For the act and also for being in possession of limpet mines.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So you're applying for that, yes.  Thank you.
	Mr Berger, do you have any questions you'd like to put to Mr Pearce?

MR BERGER: Just one, Chairperson.
	Mr Pearce, you said that you didn't receive any training outside South Africa as an MK cadre, but would it be correct to say that you did receive training inside South Africa as an MK cadre?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Yes, I did.

MR BERGER: And from whom did you receive that training?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: From Matthew Lecordier.

MR BERGER: Thank you, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Did that include how to use a limpet mine?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: A limpet mine and handgrenades, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dehal, do you have any questions that you'd like to put to the witness?

MR DEHAL: Not so much a question, but simply to clarify the following point.
	Mr Pearce, the Woodstock Vultures is a gang - sorry, is a gang that is reputed to be in Wentworth and operates from Wentworth and has the name Woodstock Vultures.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And what you've said is you've never had anything to do with it.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No.

MR DEHAL: Inasmuch as you've said you had not met the author, I think his name is Mr Brain Rostrin of the book "Till Babylon Falls", had you ever been interviewed by any other person indirectly for the purposes of that book?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Not at all.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DEHAL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Dehal.  Mr Richard, do you have any questions you'd like to put to Mr Pearce?

MR RICHARD: A number.
	You say you received, that you met and discussed various matters with various people, and in paragraph 3 you say -
"Some of those who attended these meetings were Matthew Lecordier, Antonio du Preez, Naziem Kassiem and M Sharpley."
Now when did these discussions take place?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: In-between the period of 1986/1986.

MR RICHARD: So did they continue until about June '86?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Could be, I'm not too sure.

MR RICHARD: Now do you recall discussion at those meetings about the plan to plant a bomb at a hotel or pub in central Durban?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Not at all.

MR RICHARD: Did you recall the idea being debated that handgrenades should be thrown at targets?  I'm not interested in what sort of targets yet.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No, not at all.

MR RICHARD: So the question of throwing handgrenades at any police station, motor vehicle or individuals was never discussed, is that correct?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: It could have been discussed, but there was no specific target.

MR RICHARD: The next question is, while you might have not discussed specific targets, was there any discussion as to what sort of targets handgrenades might be thrown at?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: At Security personnel and collaborators.

MR RICHARD: And what were collaborators within the context of those discussions?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: People who worked closely with the Security Force and also people who were members of the Labour Party.

MR RICHARD: When you say "closely with the Security Forces", what does the word "closely" mean to you?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: They could be reservists.

MR RICHARD: Now training.  You say Mr Lecordier trained you.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Yes, he did.

MR RICHARD: What training did he give you, what did he teach you to do?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: He first taught me how a handgrenade works, how to detonate it, after pulling the pin, how long it would take before the handgrenade would explode when you let got the device on it, a handle and he also taught me about limpet mines, how to put a detonator into it, how to put a timer into it.

MR RICHARD: Who else was trained with you?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: It was just me and Matthew, Matthew and myself.

MR RICHARD: Did he give you any training as to what casualties were permissible or not permissible?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: It could have been discussed, but I'm not too sure.

MR RICHARD: When you say joined, do you mean that you were recruited into the group known as Special Operations?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No, we were a group that stayed together, we didn't go, we only took instructions.

MR RICHARD: Apart from the Fairvale School operation where, from what I gather, it was a group discussion and decision, did you ever conduct an attack on any target where it was simply you that chose the target?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: No.

MR RICHARD: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RICHARD

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Richard.  Mr Prior, do you have any questions?

ADV PRIOR: One question.
	Did you ever receive any training from Mr McBride, whether military or political?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Political, yes.  We had discussions and he did give me political material.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Prior.  Ms Kooverjee, do you have any re-examination?

MS KOOVERJEE: None, thank you, Sir.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS KOOVERJEE

CHAIRPERSON: Adv Sigodi, do you have any questions you'd like to ask Mr Pearce?

ADV SIGODI: None, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Judge Pillay?
	Thank you, Mr Pearce, that concludes your testimony.

MR DEHAL: Sorry, Mr Chairperson, Mr McBride has asked me to clarify an aspect.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

MR DEHAL: Could I just confer with Mr McBride quickly?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.  Sorry, while you're conferring, if I could just as a question.
	You say that you were recruited.  Prior to that were you a member of the ANC or just a supporter, or what was your political standpoint?

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: I used to attend UDM meetings, UDF meetings, the United Democratic Front Meetings and I used to help in the Wentworth youth projects.  There were student bodies there and we would made T-shirts, I would help them.

MR DEHAL: May I proceed, Mr Chairperson.  Thank you.
	Mr Pearce, just to clarify.  Mr McBride sitting on my right has indicated to me that you referred to the period '86 to '86, could you be mistaken?  It was in fact as I understand it, 1984 to 1986.

EDWARD ALLAN PEARCE: Could be, yes, I must have made a mistake there.