Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-29

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Jubie.  We are not going to let you go so quickly.  We are going to ask you some questions so we can just complete our own understanding of what actually did happen.  You mention the fact that you were detained at the Fort.  There does seem to be evidence that even when people were detained and imprisoned there was actually a difference in treatment depending on, sometimes, the race that you were classified as, the question of whether you were a women or a man and I am wondering if you could share some of your own experiences in that regard.

JUBIE MAYET: The group that I was detained with, I mean, our detention orders had been signed on the same day, but the cops could not find me at home or at my place of work, because I think I was, I spent most of that weekend in Soweto.  I was busy with UBJ meetings and things.  And, at any rate, when I, as I say, when I got there on the Monday Tenjiwe was already there and Joyce Mogesie and Makab Operasie was there and Grace Manzi.  I was the only, what, Indian, I hate using these things, but anyway, and we knew, some of us knew each other.  I knew Tenjiwe from previously, I knew Joyce.  I did not know Matabo, I did not know Grace, I mean I did not know Gladys Manz, but we all, I mean, for me it was like being at home, you know.  I was, there was no difference in the treatment that we had.  I mean, we got the same food, we were locked up at the same time, let out of cells at the same time, visiting privileges and, you know, all that kind of thing.  I cannot speak for the men, because, fortunately, I was not detained with any men.  Maybe unfortunately.  Yes, so, no, I think as far as the treatment of our group at that time was concerned, there was no difference between them, you know, Tenjiwe and them and myself.

YASMINE SOOKA: Also, while you talk about not complying with your banning order.  I think people have begun to forgot what, in fact, the banning order was actually supposed to be ...

JUBIE MAYET: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: ... and I wonder if you could just, for the record.

JUBIE MAYET: Whereas I, James Thomas Kruger.  Where is my envelope, I have got, sorry.  Thank you.  Well it prevented me from doing a whole lot of things.  I remember I was banned in December and I think in January or February the following, 79, I walked into the offices of the Voice with my bag and I said I am going to work.  Revelation Ntolo was the Editor at the time and he nearly had a heart attack and he told Mike Norton to get me out of there.  You know, I was prepared to work, but, obviously, also if I did remain on the premises and the cops found out and I did work, the whole organisation of the Voice would be placed in jeopardy.  I realised that and then I gave up my notion of going to work.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were you able to work from home?

JUBIE MAYET: Journalism, well the kind of work I was doing at the time, it was not easy to do from home.  Not to say I did not continue writing and things but, yes, Tenjiwe and I and all of us, Debs, use to call these things our whereas I's.   "Whereas I, James Thomas Kruger, Minister of Justice am satisfied that you engage in activities which endanger or are calculated to endanger the maintenance of public order, I hereby in terms of Section 10(1)(a) of the Internal Security Act, 1950, prohibit you for a period commencing on the date on which this notice is delivered or tendered to you and expiring on 31 December 1983 from
 One, absenting yourself from the magisterial district of Johannesburg, being within any Black area that is to say any scheduled Black area as defined in the Black Land Act ...",
blah, blah,
"... any land of which the South African Development Trust referred to in Section 4 of the ...",
whatever. 
"... any location, Black hostel or Black village defined and set apart under the Black Urban Areas Consolidation Act."
In other words, I was prohibited from going into any townships or Coloured areas.  I was to remain in Lenasia and the magisterial district of Johannesburg.  I could not enter schools, where is this now, yes.  I could not enter, I do not know what that means.  Yes, there was a whole lot of things I was not supposed to do or could not.  
"Performing any of the following acts",
Now, this is pertinent to my situation.
"Preparing, compiling, printing, publishing, disseminating or transmitting in any manner whatsoever any publication as defined in the Internal Security Act, 1950.  Participating or assisting in any manner whatsoever in the preparation, compilation, printing, publication, dissemination or transmission of any publication as so defined. Contributing, preparing, compiling or transmitting in any manner whatsoever any matter for a publication in any publication as so defined.  Assisting in any manner whatsoever in the preparation, compilation or transmission of any matter for publication in any publication as so defined.  Preparing, compiling, printing, publishing, disseminating or transmitting in any manner whatsoever any document which shall include any book, pamphlet, record, list, placard, poster, drawing, photograph or picture which is not a publication within the meaning of paragraph 3(a) about or participating or assisting in any manner whatsoever in the preparation, compilation, printing, publication, dissemination or transmission of any such document in which, inter alia, any form of State or any principle or policy of the Government of a State is propagated, defended, attacked, criticised, discussed or referred to.  Any matter is contained concerning anybody, organisation, group or association of persons, institution, society or movement which has been declared an unlawful organisation by or under the Internal Security Act, 1950, or the Unlawful Organisations Act."
etc.

YASMINE SOOKA: So ...

JUBIE MAYET: Any matter sorry.

YASMINE SOOKA: So, effectively, it actually cut you off from ...

JUBIE MAYET: It cut me off from, well, I could not also go to the schools.  If my children had problems at school I could not go to the school to go and sort it out.  What was this one?  Yes, I was also banned from any gathering, social gathering where,
"... at which the persons present also have social intercourse with one another.  Any political gathering ...",
yes,
"... that is to say any gathering at which any form of State or any principle of policy of a Government of a State is propagated, defended, attacked, criticised or discussed.  Any gathering of pupils or students assembled for the purpose of being instructed, trained or addressed by you."

YASMINE SOOKA: So, effectively you were cut off both in, from working and, in fact, from having a social life if you chose to remain ...

JUBIE MAYET: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: ... within the confines of that banning order.

JUBIE MAYET: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: What did that actually do to your life and what did it do, how did it effect your children?