Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-08

MR NOFEMELA: They trained us for future so that when the PASO members are marching we canprotect them as marshals.

ADV DE JAGER: Was that the only reason why they trained you in arms and ammunition? They didn'tgive you any other instructions?

MR NOFEMELA: I was arrested while I was still in training.

ADV DE JAGER: Ja. But what was the motive of training you? Should you use the arms and ammunitionin a war or was it only to safeguard yourself?

MR NOFEMELA: We were trained in order to defend and to protect the Africans.

ADV DE JAGER: And then you stated,
"Atthe time we were still under White minority rule and the objective ofPASO was to make this country ungovernable by whatever means necessary".
Did you ever attenda meeting of PASO where a resolution was passed what you should do, or wherethey instructed you what to do?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes I attended PASO meetings when PASO was re-launched.

ADV DE JAGER: And what in fact were you told that day what should you do?

MR NOFEMELA: We were told to make this country ungovernable by stoning the government cars.

ADV DE JAGER: Right. Now was that the full instruction, "by stoning government cars"?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes that's what we were told. We then we were told to implement the slogan,"One Settler, one bullet", and that each and every Whiteperson we must stone that person in order to bring back the African countryto the Africans.

ADV DE JAGER: So apart from being told to attack government vehicles you were also told tostone people, is that correct? Do I understand you correctly?

MR NOFEMELA: Which people? I don't clearly understand your question.

ADV DE JAGER: Were you told to stone White people, or weren't you told to stone people atall?

MR NOFEMELA: Our land was taken from us by White people so we were throwing stones to Whitepeople and to their cars because they were those who were in power.

ADV DE JAGER: Okay, I understand that you did that, but who told you to do it? Was that atthe meeting or was it before or after the meeting, or when did this - or didn'tanybody tell you to stone White people?

MR NOFEMELA: We were at the meeting.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes I - you were at the meeting, did they tell you at the meeting to stone peopleor to kill people, to kill Whites?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes they said that the African land has to return back to the Africans. Ouremotions led us to throw stones at this White person because our land was takenfrom us by the White people.

ADV DE JAGER: You see I am putting the questions to you because we must decide whether youhave been ordered to do so or whether your deeds were approved by a politicalorganisation, and that's the only reason I am asking it, or whether you wereon a frolic of your own.

MR NOFEMELA: We were told to do this, we did not do it on our own. It was not for our ownbenefit.

ADV DE JAGER: Right, no I understand that, now who told you to do it?

MR NOFEMELA: Simpiwe Mfengu and Wanda Mathebula.

ADV DE JAGER: And they were leaders of the PAC at that stage, or in the leadership cadre ofthe PAC, is that correct?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes that is correct. One of them was a chairperson, the regional chairperson.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes. And you understood them to have the authority to give you these instructions,that they were speaking on behalf of the party, is that what you believed?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes we believed in our organisation.

ADV DE JAGER: And do you know subsequently, after the unfortunate offence was committed, didanybody in the party approve of what you had been doing?

MR NOFEMELA: Please repeat your question.

ADV DE JAGER: After Miss Biehl was killed did any of the party leaders or personalities, leadingpersonalities in the party say something about it? Did they approve of whatyou did or what did they say if they said anything?

MR NOFEMELA: Did they say this to us?

ADV DE JAGER: Ja to you or your friends in your presence.

MR NOFEMELA: Yes they did say something to us.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you tell the Committee what they said?

MR NOFEMELA: They said that we made a mistake.

ADV DE JAGER: So they didn't approve of what you've done?

MR NOFEMELA: They approved of what we used to do, but they investigated about Amy Biehl andthey said that we made a mistake about her.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Nofemela, it is true that PASO had been making the demand for the returnof the land to the African people long before 1993, but that on the 25th ofAugust 1993 you were particularly inspired because of the speech delivered toyou by Mr Mfengu and Mathebula. Had you, before the 25th of August 1993, beenaddressed by Mr Mfengu and Mathebula or by either of them?

MR NOFEMELA: Before?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Before the incident in question. Remember you were addressed by Mr Mfengu andMathebula on the 25th of August 1993, before that date had they previously addressedyou as members of PASO?

MR NOFEMELA: No I don't remember. I only remember this particular meeting.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now the evidence already led by Mr Peni was that at this meeting the organisationPASO for the first time adopted the slogan which had previously been adoptedby APLA, the military wing of the PAC, which was the Year of the Great Storm.

MR NOFEMELA: Maybe I don't understand your question very well.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I will repeat it. Did you at this meeting of the 25th of August 1993 adopt forthe first time the slogan which has been referred to as the Year of the GreatStorm?

MR NOFEMELA: In 1993, it was the Year of the Great Storm, it started in 1993.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And it was at that meeting that you decided to put it into operation, am I correct,that's the evidence of Mr Peni?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes that is correct, in that meeting in Langa High School.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now what did you understand the slogan or the Operation to entail? What wasexpected of members of PASO since that was the Year of the Great Storm?

MR NOFEMELA: On that particular day?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, what were you expected to do since you had adopted that slogan the Yearof the Great Storm?

MR NOFEMELA: To make this country or the government ungovernable.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And how did you translate that to the One Settler, one bullet".killing of Miss Biehl?

MR NOFEMELA: We had a slogan "

SISI KHAMPEPE: But how did this operation affect your conduct in the killing of Miss Amy Biehl?Did you believe that in doing what you did to Miss Biehl you were participatingin what was expected of you by Operation Great Storm?

MR NOFEMELA: The case of Amy?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes.

MR NOFEMELA: Yes it did.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And to what extent did the slogan, "One Settler, one bullet" influenceyou in your participation in the killing of Miss Biehl?

MR NOFEMELA: "One Settler, one bullet", according to our knowledge.....

SISI KHAMPEPE: I am still listening. I don't know whether the translators are getting the translationthrough.

MR NOFEMELA: "One Settler, one bullet", according to our knowledge is thatwe kill a White person with one bullet.

SISI KHAMPEPE: If Mr Mathebula and Mr Mfengu had not addressed you on the 25th of August 1993do you believe that you would have been able to do what you did and that isparticipate in the gruesome killing of Miss Biehl?

MR NOFEMELA: You mean that if there were other speakers except these two saying the samewords that Mathebula and Simpiwe said?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes. If they had not delivered the speeches which so inspired you do you thinkyou would have done what you did on the 25th of August?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes we would have done it because we believed that our land was taken from usby the White people.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

JUDGE WILSON: Did you take a wallet out of Miss Biehl's car?

MR NOFEMELA: I don't know anything about Amy's wallet.

JUDGE WILSON: Well do you know that evidence was led at the trial that you took a wallet outof her car.

MR NOFEMELA: I heard that in court but I don't know anything about that wallet.