Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-01-27

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Motsamai was part of my team of which I was section head, I had no problem with him.  Mr Motsamai for many years was on my assistance team whom I used after hours.  I had no problems with him, he's actually a good friend of mine.

ADV MEMANI: And you also have no friction with Mr Ngo, isn't it?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Ngo was a complainant in an assault case, that's where I got to know him.  He was later at the security branch.  I didn't work with him, there was no reason for me to have any friction with him.  I didn't know the man.

ADV MEMANI: No further questions Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MEMANI

MR BRINK: No thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

MR STANDER: Mr Chair, there's just one matter which I neglected addressing, it concerns the detached service.  I would ask permission to ask a few questions to Mr Bester in this regard, with your permission.

CHAIRPERSON: A few.

MR STANDER: Yes, I will try to be as quick as possible about it.
	Mr Bester, you said you were on the detached service, were there other members as well who were on detached service at the security branch?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chair, yes, there were.  But I think after approximately two weeks they departed and I basically remained behind alone.

MR STANDER: But it did sometimes happen that members from other police stations, for example from Wepener, would be here at the security branch on detached service?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, what did happen was that the railway police, as it was known, some of their members were used to interrogate detainees in terms of emergency measures.  If there were others, I don't know.

MR STANDER: Why I'm asking this is, Constable Morakile who apparently was stationed at the stock theft unit at Wepener, I was instructed that he did security work at the security branch although at that stage he was actually still officially attached to the stock theft unit in Wepener.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chairman, if that is correct and true then I must say that I did not really associate with the security branch members, because I was investigating I was more at the town where the problems had occurred.

MR STANDER: Thank you Mr Chair, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STANDER

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	You have just referred to the fact that you got to know Mr Ngo as a complainant in an assault case.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: That is correct, that is what I said.

MR VISSER: Can you remember in which year the incident in which he was injured took place?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Under correction I will say that it was in 1985.

MR VISSER: And was there a trial that followed on that.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: That can be very misleading.  If the incident perhaps took place in '84 then the trial would be in '85

MR VISSER: So you're not sure?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I'm definitely not sure.

MR VISSER: But did a trial follow on that that you were aware of?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: And the finding of this trial was that these people were found to be not guilty and released.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And one of those accused was Mr White Mohapi.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Are you aware of any other case where Mr White Mohapi  was "taken to court" where he got off scott free except in this one case.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, I'm not aware of any other case.

MR VISSER: I may add Mr Chairman, nor have we been told by Mr White Mohapi of any such case.  This is in regard to the question which you put to the witness just now.  I have no further questions thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Mr Bester, were you the person who investigated the bombing of the clinic until the docket was closed?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, I was not the investigating officer for a very long time, I did the preliminary investigation but it was handed over to the detective team at Brandfort.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: The house, what about the house?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I investigated the house, I investigated that matter until I couldn't trace the suspects and I believe that that case was closed as unsolved.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: That was while you were not yet a member of the security branch.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: That's correct, yes.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: And I believe there was a lot of speculation that members of the security branch, taking into account the political profile then of Mrs Mandela, accusations that the security branch could have been behind that, the bombing of, or responsible for the bombing of the house.  Were you aware of such rumours?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, I was not aware of any such accusations, if I had been I would have investigated it.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Again given the political profile of Mrs Mandela and the huge interests which the police had in her, did that thought ever occur to you?  That the security branch might have been responsible as a form of harassment?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: When I investigated that matter I was not part of the detective team and that idea, in those earlier years, would not have arisen.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Why not?  Why wouldn't it have arisen?  I mean I've just put it to you that given the interest in which the police, security branch had interest in Mrs Mandela.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: If the police had been interested in her, the detective team would not have been.  What I'm trying to say is that at that stage I was very inexperienced, I came from a detective team or branch where I did cases of theft and assault and this was a new team suddenly, a new field.  If I heard that a policeman did something I would have brought that man to court.  That's how it worked and I left the police force last year.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: So the matter was never investigated from that angle?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, most certainly not.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: I find this quite surprising in the light of the allegations which were flown around, that the security branch were harassing Mrs Mandela.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: If Mrs Mandela had been harassed by the security branch, I was not the one who was doing it.  I've just made the remark that I have nothing to lie about, I only want to speak the truth.  If I do not know about something then I really do not know anything about it.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I don't know if you can remember, Mrs Mandela's house, what was the cause of the damage?  Were you able to ascertain that?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I suspect that the house was set alight by petrol.  I wouldn't say it was a petrol bomb but if I can remember correctly it was petrol.

CHAIRPERSON: And the clinic?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: The burnt very badly when I arrived there.  Usually if a place is set alight by petrol then one smells the petrol but I could not smell this and because the case was not investigated any further by me, I showed no further interest in exactly what had caused the fire.  But we did suspect that it could have been a petrol bomb or that it was set alight with petrol.

CHAIRPERSON: But you didn't smell petrol there?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: The whole clinic was filled with smoke, the smell of smoke was overpowering.  If I can just tell you, I remember about a lot of books that burnt and these books were smouldering.  They were on a pile and I think that is what caused the terrible smoke if I can remember correctly.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.