Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ermelo — 1997-05-22

MR LEWIN: Mr Zondo, before asking Doctor Randera to lead you in your evidence, could I please ask Tom Manthata to swear you in.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Nsongelwa Zondo, can you stand up.  Raise your right hand and swear that the evidence you are going to lead is going to be the truth and nothing else but the truth, so help me God.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: (sworn states)

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Thanks very much.  Mr Zondo, I'll ask Doctor Randera to lead your evidence.  Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Mr Zondo, welcome to you and to your mother.  We have heard so much to-day already on what happened in your community of Wesselton, not far from here.  We have a full statement from you.  I want you please to first tell us something about yourself and then take us back to what you can remember in 1992 and tell us what happened to you.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: It was on a Saturday afternoon, around about one o'clock and I was coming from a tavern and there had been a mass funeral Jweli.  It was at about one p.m.  As I was proceeding towards my house, I saw a group of people.  It was quiet at that time except for this group.  I had went home to have something to eat.  As I was crossing the street I came across three elderly men and they went past.  Thereafter I heard some gunfire and when I turned around I realized that I had been shot and they continued shooting me.  I ran into a neighbour's place where I hid myself in the toilet.  When I got there I threw up and I realized that I was losing my consciousness.  I went out of the toilet into the house and I went out of that yard.  That's where I lost consciousness.  I fell.  When I came to, I was being picked up by some youths who were putting me into a car and ferrying me to the hospital.  When I got to the hospital, I was sent to  Kalafong Hospital.  That's where I was operated upon.   When I came back from Kalafong I was re-admitted to the hospital.  I was transferred back to  Kalafong where I underwent a second operation.

DR RANDERA: How long did you stay in hospital ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I stayed there for two months.

DR RANDERA: And when you came back ?  During the time that you were in hospital, did you lay any charges against people you may have recognized who were involved in that march ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Yes, I did open a case.

DR RANDERA: Michael, let me just go back a little.  Tell me, how old are you now ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I'm fifty two years old.

DR RANDERA: Are you working ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I'm not.

DR RANDERA: Were you working at the time ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Yes, I was.

DR RANDERA: What was your job ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I was working for the land surveyors.

DR RANDERA: So did you lose your job because you were away for such a long time in hospital or did you lose  your job because you felt you couldn't go back to work ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I wouldn't have been able to go back because I had these operations, especially in my stomach.

DR RANDERA: Okay.  You have a family I presume, with children ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I don't.  I do have children but I don't have a wife.

DR RANDERA: How many children do you have ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Two.

DR RANDERA: Two. Michael, I know we've heard a lot about Amakati, the Black Cats to-day but let me hear from you your own understanding of what was happening in that time.  To-day we've heard stories already from 1990.  You're taking us to 1992.  This is almost two years later from the time that things started happening.  Let me hear your understanding.  I know you said you were coming back from a tavern but were you yourself involved either in the Wesselton Action Committee, where you involved with the ANC at the time or were you just an innocent bystander who got caught up as people marched back from a funeral ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I was not involved in any form of organization, either political of civic organization.  I was just a working man.   I used to go to work every Monday and come back only on Fridays.  I wasn't involved in any form of mobility or political mobilization.

DR RANDERA: I'm happy with what you said but just tell us what your impression was of the conflicts that were taking place in the community at the time.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: At that time there was a gang called the Black Cats and there was a lot of violence but where it emanated from I wouldn't say.

DR RANDERA: Now this person who's funeral it was, Jweli hey ?  He was one of the leaders of the Black Cats.  Am I right in that understanding ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Yes, he was a leader of the Black Cats.

DR RANDERA: He was killed according to your statement by some Comrades.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I wouldn't comment on that because I have no knowledge thereof.

DR RANDERA: Okay sorry, I may have read somebody else's statement.  Michael you said in your statement that you haven't been able to work since 1992.  That you're unemployed ... (interrupted)

NSONGELWA ZONDO: That is correct.

DR RANDERA: Have you been able to apply for a disability grant ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I haven't.

DR RANDERA: Is there a reason for that ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I don't have.

DR RANDERA: You know about disability grants ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Yes, I do no but I don't know the channels that I can use in order to be able to speak to the social workers or whoever I have to contact.

DR RANDERA: Michael my last point.  Looking back on that time now.  I mean we're now almost seven years.  If you were to meet with those people and some of those people I presume are still in your community, what would you want to say to them ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I'd feel very bad.  Even though I'm powerless I wouldn't know what to do to them.

DR RANDERA: Thank  you Michael.  Chairperson, I have no further question.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  Tom ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Michael, did you ever come to understand what the Comrades were doing at that time ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I didn't know anything because I used to go to work on Mondays and come back on Fridays so I was not fully conversant with whatever was going on in that area.

THOMAS MANTHATA: As you were going in and out of the area, you had never met a group of youths that would later be identified as Comrades ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I know that there were Comrades that existed there.  I heard that there were Comrades and I also heard there was also a group called The Cats.  I never had an encounter with them until that day that I was shot at.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Do you know what the Comrades stood for ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I did not know.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And then the Black Cats ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I knew nothing between the Comrades and the Black Cats.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You had never heard about a conflict between the two ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: Yes, I did hear that they were fighting but during those fights I wasn't there.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, one is not saying that you should have been at their meetings or at their fights but one wants to say that as a member of the community you could have heard people talking about these two groups and what each group stands for.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: No, I've never heard.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  No further questions.

MR LEWIN: Russel ?

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Zondo you do however say in your statement that you were a member of the ANC.  Is that correct ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: That is correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: And that you joined the ANC in 1990.  After it was unbanned.

NSONGELWA ZONDO: That's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you think that those people who attacked  you  may have known  this ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: I think they knew.

RUSSELL ALLY: What makes you think that ?

NSONGELWA ZONDO: It's because I didn't know them.  Maybe they knew me because even now I can't identify them.  I do not know them.

MR LEWIN: Doctor Randera ?