Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-18

ADV SANDI: In what language are you going to testify Mr Zungu?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Zulu.

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: (sworn states)

MR KOOPEDI: May I then proceed Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Zungu, where do you reside?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I reside in Emdeni.

MR KOOPEDI: Now is it correct you are a co-applicant in this matter, the amnesty application for the killing of Sicelo Dhlomo?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes, that is correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Is it also correct that this incident happened in January 1988?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Now when this incident occurred, were you a member of any political organisation?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes that is true.

MR KOOPEDI: What political organisation were you a member of?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Sosco.

MR KOOPEDI: Were you at the same time a member of any underground structures of any political organisation?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes that is true.

MR KOOPEDI: Were you an underground member of what political structure?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: ANC.

MR KOOPEDI: Now let's get to the deceased, the late Sicelo Dhlomo, did you know him?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes I knew him although not too much.

MR KOOPEDI: Well there is evidence before this Committee that he resided in Emdeni and was a student activist.  Now were you - in these underground structures that you were involved in, was he also involved in the same structures?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Now we have evidence that in fact you, him and the other applicant that came before you had belonged to a particular cell or unit as it is commonly known, is that correct?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes that is correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Now let's go to his death.  Were you involved in his death, were you present when he died?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes I was present.

MR KOOPEDI: For the sake of brevity I'm going to try and shorten his evidence with your permission Chairperson.
	We have evidence here that in fact when he died you had been fetched by Clive to go to some meeting place, is that correct?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: And we further have evidence that in fact before he was killed you were not given any explanation, is that correct?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes that is correct.

MR KOOPEDI: Now because you were a member of this unit that executed or killed Sicelo Dhlomo, do you think that this killing had a political motivation?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I think so.

MR KOOPEDI: What is this political objective that you would obtain?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Although I did not have any idea before Sicelo died but I did get the explanation subsequently, that is subsequent to the incident.

MR KOOPEDI: Now is it on the basis of the political motivation that you seek amnesty from this Honourable Committee?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Other than the brief facts that you have given us, is there anything that you would want to say to this Committee or any persons present in this hall or elsewhere?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: First of all, I would like to thank this opportunity that all this came to the surface about his death and also the fact that I would like my amnesty application to be granted favourable considerations and to the family I would like them to take the past and put it in the back and move on.

MR KOOPEDI: Chairperson, that's all for now from my side.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Well I think we have to record a little more than you have.  He has said simply that although he had no information before, he was told subsequently.  I think we ought to at least record were you told by Mr Dube what he said was the reason for killing the deceased?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was this what you were told after the deceased had been killed?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes that is true.  The full explanation, I got it after some time because we did not have enough time immediately after this incident but I was informed however the reasons why he had to be killed.  The reason was he was an informer.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, thank you.

MR RICHARD: Mr Zungu, did you know the deceased before he joined your cell?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I knew him from school.

MR RICHARD: And which school is that?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: When we had meetings for instance that's when I will come across him or I will see him.

MR RICHARD: So you weren't at school with him but you knew him from meetings at school, is that correct?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes.

MR RICHARD: And for how long had you known him?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I did not know him for quite some time, quite long rather.

MR RICHARD: How long is that, is that one month, one year?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: You mean before this incident?  Knowing him before this incident or what?

MR RICHARD: Before he joined your cell.

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I knew him from merely seeing him, I don't know as to how long, I can't remember in fact the time.

MR RICHARD: Weren't you aware of his activities, his activism?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I just knew him as any other comrades at school when we meet.

MR RICHARD: Did you know he was a volunteer worker at the Detainee's Parents Support Committee?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Did you know anything about the television programmes, the interviews?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Now after he joined the cell, did you become aware of his activities?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No, I also had no intentions of knowing that, I had no interest.

MR RICHARD: Now so that means you're unaware of the various times and dates that he got arrested, detained?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I may say so.

MR RICHARD: Now did you have any reason to doubt Mr Tshabalala's suggestion that he join the cell?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: What suggestion?

MR RICHARD: Mr Tshabalala nominated him and proposed him as a member of your cell and that he joined.  What was your attitude to him joining?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I don't want to prolong any answer to that because I had no knowledge about this man.

ADV SANDI: Maybe the question can be put this way Mr Richard.
	Do you know how it came about that he became a member of your cell?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I will say I know because I was told, that that was announced to me that there will be one other member will be joining us and we will be working with him.

MR RICHARD: Did you have any say as to whether he should or shouldn't join?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Did you mind him joining?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Did you ever have any suspicions about trustworthiness?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: You're referring to which period here?

MR RICHARD: I'm talking about - well take it this way, between when he joined and October, did you have any suspicions about him?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I will gratefully answer you and say I had no knowledge or any knowledge about Sicelo as such as a person.

MR RICHARD: So prior to October you had no reason to suspect that he was an informer, that's your answer?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: I will say so.

MR RICHARD: After October did you have any reason to suspect him?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: After October where and what could have happened?

MR RICHARD: After October 1987 or during October 1987 did you have any reason to suspect that the deceased might be an informer?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Were you aware that other persons had suspicions?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: No.

MR RICHARD: Now so that means it was only after his death that you heard about the suspicions?

PRECIOUS WISEMAN ZUNGU: Yes except for the time when he disappeared, when I was told by the commander that I must be alert, vigilant, because we did not know his whereabouts.

MR RICHARD: Did the commander explain anything more than it was simply his absence that required you to be alert and vigilant?