Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-07

CHAIRPERSON: It's gone past 9 so we are going to begin.  If we could just stand, a moment's silence for the victims for those whose testimony we're going to be hearing, thank you.  (silence)  Thank you.
 Before we begin I'd just like to introduce Commissioners and Committee members who're going to be presiding over this hearing. 
 I'll start on my far left there's Hugh Lewin who is a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee.  Next to him is Joyce Seroke, a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee, on my right is right is Dr Fazel Randera a commissioner and a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee and I'm Russel Alley, a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee. I'm going to ask Ms Seroke just to go through the witnesses who will be appearing today.

MS SEROKI: Good morning, we greet you, I'll call out the names of those who will give testimony today.
Mthokoziseni Ntombelo who will be the first one and we have Joseph Mashane, Albert Nkuna, Johannes Dhlomo, Zondi Ngobeni, Olga Nyathi, Tembisela Citwa, Lillian Mampura, Petrus Ntombela, Mbembbezana Mlotshwa, Zondiwe Mstshali.  We also have another name that we had yesterday that we'll add to today's names by the name of Paulos......

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you if I can ask the first witness to step forward, there is a slight change in the programme, we're going to be starting with Zondiwe Mstshali, if Zondiwe Mtshalie could please come to the witness stand.
 Zondiwe welcome.  I'm going to hand you over to Hugh Lewin who is going to assist you with your testimony.

MR LEWIN: Zondiwe we'd like to welcome you here, good morning and thank you for agreeing to come to the hearings  and also for being the first witness for today.  Before you give your testimony could I ask you please to take the oath.  If you could please stand.

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: (sworn states)

MS SEROKI: Zondiwe you're going to tell us about what happened to your husband Benson in September 1993 when you were, you live in Thokoza, do you still?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: Yes.

MS SEROKI: And you were there.  If you could tell us in your own time and in your own words, tell us what happened to your husband.  Thank you.

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: I'm Zondiwe Mtshalie.  It was on the 6th September on a Monday, my husband left home for work in the morning and we waited for his return to no avail.  We started panicking now because we didn't know his whereabouts. We only went to bed when it was late at night and he was not back yet.  The following morning we started panicking even more and wanted to go out and look for him.  We went to his company where he was working and when we got there he wasn't there either, he did not even show up.
 From there his brothers took me home and they left in search of him at the hospital and got back at one where we remained at home. That's when I discovered that my husband had died because my father in law came and sat right next to me, and he said to me, we've been defeated by life. I wondered as to what I could do.  
 They started explaining how they recovered his corps, how they went to the mortuary first and they did not see him and the police asked them when he was murdered or killed.  They explained that they were not even sure if he was killed because he had left for work the previous day and he did not come back home. The policeman helped them by taking them to some other parts of the mortuary but still they could not locate him.  As they were leaving the mortuary one of the brothers said he had a problem of going back home and giving up like that without recovering his corpse.  They went back to the mortuary and they saw one shoe but they could not recognise him because he was burned.  The only things that they could recognise were his shoes.  When they tried to take off his shoes they could tell from his feet that he is the one whom they were looking for.
 They left the mortuary and came home after recovering the corpse to tell me that they located him.  I was dark, I did not know where to start because the funeral arrangements had to take place now, and that's where we encountered the most difficult problem as we did not even have money for the expense.  What I will say here is that my husband was no buried by myself or by he brothers but the relatives a significant role. We had no money because this happened unexpectedly.  We were moved from one place to another and we wasted so much money in transferring from one place to another, so we encountered financial problems.  Even to this day we have the same problem because what I'm earning is peanuts.  I can't live with my children even today, I went back home to ask if they can't take them because I can't support my family ...(indistinct) and it is five years and the satisfaction they derived from a mother.

MR LEWIN: Could I please just ask a couple of questions to fill out your story?  You mention the fact that you had moved.  Could you explain a little bit about this and why you'd decided to move from one section to another?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: It was not easy for us to sleep at one place because he people with whom we were living, we knew they were not so friendly, because when things changed they would tell us we were IFP simply because we are Zulu speaking.  Now that posed serious problems for us, we felt we were not treated well in the community and we were at the same time ostracised by the community. We would carry everything positively with the people we lived with but when violence or riots struck they would ostracise us.

MR LEWIN: That has not always been so, has it, I mean you used to live in friendly relations with your neighbours.

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: No it wasn't like that.

MR LEWIN: Were yourselves at all involved politically, I mean were you actually members of IFP?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: No.  We were just ordinary people.

MR LEWIN: But Zulu speaking?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: Zulu speaking, that's correct.

MR LEWIN: So did the area that you moved into, was that a more friendly Zulu speaking area?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: Yes the place was predominantly Zulu.  Because we're not affiliated with the group, the organisation, we're no looked at as being friends as well.  They would try to get us to be members but we were so stubborn and completely refused to be members. Now we had to keep moving from one place to another because of that and we just hoped that God knows everything.

MR LEWIN: Then could I also confirm, your husband was working in Elroad, was he?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: That's correct, Elroad South.

MR LEWIN: And you yourself now work as a domestic worker, where do you actually work?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: I'm a domestic worker.

MR LEWIN: Where do you do that?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: At Danute in Germiston.

MR LEWIN: Okay, and then could I ask, in your statement, you do say that there was a witness or a possible witness to what happened to your husband, can you tell us more about that please?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: I used to work with the person when I was employed at Elroad South. When this transpired we were all going to work and they saw the witness.  His problem is that he did not want to disclose his name to such an extent that he did not want even to explain to me the details of incident because each time I asked him, he would cry and refuse to tell me.

MR LEWIN: Do you think if you explain to us, not necessarily here but later where he was that we might be able to contact him privately and find out what happened?

ZONDIWE MSTSHALI: That I can do.

MR LEWIN: Thank you, I mean have you, you've obviously, you must have thought about it a great deal.  Do you have any idea why your husband was killed?