Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-11

UNKNOWN: And the other son was [intervention]

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Oh! the other young man?

UNKNOWN: Killed at the airport.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay, I understand that - I need to just find out a little bit more from you.  The attempts you made to try and find out what happened.  Could you take us through that again?  Can you tell us what you did to try and find out what happened to your son?

UNKNOWN: I don't know what you call it - the Church of -  what - ja I went - I went there to the Church.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Was it The South African Council of Churches.

UNKNOWN: Ja, because most of them are the PAC's and the one man there told me that he had last seen Williams in Lesotho. He knows about Williams and we said we heard that Williams had been killed and he said he hadn't yet heard that, but then he went to a different room and he stayed for a long time speaking on the phone and when he came back he took our phone numbers and addresses and told us to go home,  he would contact us later and we waited.
He never called us - he never  contacted us and that is when I realised that I must ask for help from some other quarters - and I went to the Red Cross and asked them for help in finding my son.  The Red Cross tried various things, also tried to investigate but to no avail.  And that's when we met Tsidiso  - Tsidiso he was the one who went to Lesotho and reported back to us.  And he then heard that they were in Tanzania.  He went to a lot of trouble, he went to Johannesburg as well - he went to the offices in an effort to find out what had happened to my son.
And then Fikele July  - Fikele July had said he had seen him but that the offices were closed at that particular time and that he would go back on Saturday but that never happened.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: These people were from Red Cross  and from the SACC offices and the PAC offices but you also tell us in your statement that some detectives came to your house, why did the detectives come to your house?

UNKNOWN: Those detectives are the ones who came before my son died.  Before my son died the detectives used to come to our house quite often asking about my son's whereabouts and we just said no, we don't know.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Did the detectives come to you - ever come to your house after your son had disappeared?

UNKNOWN: I think in about 1992 two policemen arrived at our house.  They weren't detectives, they were just young policemen - white policemen and  we didn't ask them who they were - we didn't give them our names but they asked us whether we had heard anything about our son and we said no, we have no knowledge about what had happened to him.  We still don't know where he is.  And they told us that we should not worry as my son was being looked after, he was in good hands.  That's all they said and then they left.  And  it was after that that we heard that our son had been killed, that he was dead.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Did it puzzle you that they came and said to you that your son is in good hands?

UNKNOWN: Did I what?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Did you wonder why it was that they came to you and tell you that your son is in good hands?

UNKNOWN: To tell you the truth I never liked the policemen and when they came to my house I didn't really like it because I'm a sickly woman, and I would sometimes just faint I was so afraid of the police because they always spelled trouble when they came to my house.  They were always thickly built policemen with large arms and loud voices and I was always very-very afraid of them.
I've said enough, can't my husband - can't Mr Williams take over please.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes I think we would now  want to speak to Mr Williams and - and hear from him how he understands the story.  But thank you very much for talking to us.
 Could we please appeal to you to be quite, because the witnesses cannot testify, we cannot hear them and that means we not according them a proper opportunity to tell their stories.
 Mr Williams, I am aware that you share your wife's grief, that you too are carrying a lot of pain in your heart about the disappearance of your son.  I wonder if you can tell us from you side about what happened to your understanding and whether you have any clues about what had happened to Williams.