Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

MR SANDI: Who is Ngilu, Mr Phangomso?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: He is Nqito.

MR SANDI: Thank you.   I will look carefully at your requests and consider them.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Thank your Mr Chairperson.

REV XUNDU: First I want to know, perhaps you can clarify some matters for us, because the elderly gentleman next to you is hard of hearing.   In any village, how many organisations are there, besides the Congo one?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: There are two organisations.

REV XUNDU: Will you tell us which they are.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: ANC and Sanco.   Both of them were destroyed.

REV XUNDU: Were these organisations working together?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.

REV XUNDU: There was no third organisation?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: No.

REV XUNDU: I would like you to clarify one more thing for me.  In Elliot Skhosana's testimony he talked about Khithiwe Pathekile who got an order that there should not be meeting at his house.  What was her status.  Was she a member of another organisation?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I cannot answer that because it had already been said when I arrived.

REV XUNDU: Maybe you can ask the gentleman next to you.
Why did Khithiwe Pathekile say that if you do not close down the gatherings at your place then there would be trouble?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: They were against the meetings.

REV XUNDU: What about Mavatha?  Was he a policeman in your village?   Was he from the village?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes he was from the village.   Therefore he was a policeman who stayed in the village.   He stayed in the village but worked in Lusikisiki.

REV XUNDU: Therefore when he addressed you, he addressed you in his capacity as a policeman?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes, but he was member of - excuse me Sir, he said he was a Station Commander...  He said he was sent by the village.  He said he was representing the village.

REV XUNDU: Do you have another witness besides the Station Commander?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes I have a witness.  Yes, Monabe she is a witness.

REV XUNDU: Therefore our investigators can investigate this whole matter.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes they may do so and they will get the truth.

REV XUNDU: You say that you saw Mavathu jumping over the fence.  Did you give that report to the police?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: The police were there when I gave that report.  They did not do anything about it.  The police said they would patrol the area.

REV XUNDU: Which policeman were you reporting to?   Which policeman did you give a statement to?  Do you remember the policeman?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: No, but the Station Commander was Zozi.

REV XUNDU: When you see the face of the policeman, would you recognise him?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I do not think so.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.
 Mr Phangomso, your request that Mr Pothe come up, this is not a court of law.  We are the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.   If this was a court of law we would ask you to call a witness. Secondly before somebody comes here and talk before the Commission there must be a statement first.   We do not have the man's statement.  
 According to our procedure we should first get a statement.  If we let him speak without a statement there would be no order.  We cannot help you with that.  We ask for your forgiveness.
 Mr Skhosana, can you hear me.  I would like to know what your requests are to the Commission?   Why have you 
come before the Commission?

MR SKHOSANA: I have a request.   If the Commission could compensate me, as my life has been so badly damaged because of so much loss, my house.  I have nothing.  If the Government could compensate and help me in whatever way they can.

REV XUNDU: Therefore you are requesting that the Commission compensate you for the loss of your house?
Is that all?

MR SKHOSANA: Yes that is all.  I have a second one.   And it is that if the Government has a way we are terribly oppressed and live in fear.  We cannot freely join organisations that we would like to join.  In our village there is no peace.    If the Government could intervene in our village, please.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Skhosana.  I just want to know... Before you can be helped by the Government we have to advise them.  What do you think the Government can do?   How can the Government intervene, such that there is peace in your village?  What is it that the Government can do?

MR SKHOSANA: If the Government could liaise with the Chief so that people live in peace and not in fear, even tonight we might not be able to sleep at home because it might not be safe.   Thank you Sir.

REV XUNDU: I would like to thank you as we finish off later on.  According to the National Unity and Reconciliation Act we have been given a responsibility that if somebody has made an accusation that person should have an opportunity to come before the Commission to respond to such accusations.