Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

CHAIRPERSON: Good Morning everybody.  When we adjourned yesterday Mr Visser was about to call his next applicant.

MR VISSER: Morning, Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee.  Yes Chairperson, I call Maj Salmon Johannes Gerhardus du Preez, who is ready to give his evidence.  He prefers to give it in Afrikaans and he has no objection to taking the prescribed oath.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Mr Chairperson, before you has been placed a summary of his evidence which we submit should be marked Exhibit C.  This was done yesterday and I will draw your attention to some mistakes that have been made in it, but we'll deal with it when we come to it.  If I may then lead the witness, Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

MR VISSER: Mr du Preez, you have previously testified ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before you proceed, it's just been drawn to my attention, we were given a map yesterday.  I think at this stage, seeing we've marked this one C, we'll mark the map Exhibit D.  Have you all got a copy of that map?  Thank you.  Sorry, Mr Visser, you may proceed.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, yes, that is Exhibit D.  Mr Chairman, we will attempt to obtain a map with greater detail about the particular area which is relevant here, which is Phoenix/Bambayi/kwaMashu and if we do obtain such a map, we'll let you have that immediately.
	Mr du Preez, you have testified previously before other Amnesty Committees as it is mentioned in Exhibit C?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And you have also completed an application for amnesty which is bound into the Khubeka bundle, that would be bundle 1?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Pages 30 to 41, where the incident is dealt with by you from page 31 to 34?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Do you confirm your previous evidence as well as the incorporation of your evidence, into your evidence of Exhibit A, which is now serving before the Committee and you request that this be taken into consideration when your application is considered?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Will you please turn to page 2 of Exhibit C and explain your participation in this incident to the Committee and your knowledge of the surrounding circumstances?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, during 1987 I took part in the arrest of one Nthombi Khubeka.  I was then a Lieutenant and served under the direct command of Colonel, then Captain, Botha.
	I confirm that information was known that she was involved, in that she acted in a co-ordinating capacity between externally trained terrorists and locally trained terrorists.

MR VISSER: Just for the sake of interest Mr du Preez, I understand that if a person, during the struggle, had been trained internally, that person was not referred to as a terrorist by you, he had to be trained externally, is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, that is not correct.

MR VISSER: What is the difference between a terrorist trained outside the country and one trained inside the country?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: The local persons were trained to commit acts of terror similarly as persons who were trained outside.

MR VISSER: Is there a difference between persons who were trained outside the country with regard to the combat of the struggle of the past as you have seen it and the persons trained inside the country?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: She was responsible for the storage of weapons, the provision of accommodation to terrorists and the gathering of intelligence with regard to targets of terror.  Her family were well-known activists in kwaMashu.  It was decided to infiltrate her and her structure of co-workers and collaborators by members of C1 who had rendered service at that time in Durban and surroundings.  Members of C1 succeeded in establishing contact with Khubeka.

MR VISSER: You have heard that Mr Botha had testified that this was done by means of an informant?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Did you know about that, or did you not know about that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I was aware of that.  I did not know the finer details though.

MR VISSER: Very Well.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Over the course of many days, members of Vlakplaas reported that Khubeka had confirmed that she acted in a co-ordinating capacity and had played a leading role with regard to accommodation of externally trained terrorists in kwaMashu and had shown arms to them which she had stored on the terrorists' behalf.

ADV BOSMAN: May I just ask you, Mr du Preez, to clear up something here?  You say that she admitted that she acted in a co-ordinating capacity.  To whom did she admit?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was to the sources.

ADV BOSMAN: But she admitted to them without knowing that they were members of C1?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct.

ADV BOSMAN: So actually they said that they had information because admit indicates and accusation and then she had admitted it, it was not that she admitted it.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct.  They pretended to be trained terrorists.  The idea was to try and apprehend the terrorists by making use of Khubeka.  An appointment was made on a day that the leader of the group...(intervention).

MR WILLS: Sorry, can I just ask again for it to be a little bit slower?  Thank you.  If you can start that paragraph ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, maybe if you could just go a little bit slower please so that the interpreter can get it and so that we can keep up with the notes, particularly Mr Wills who has to take it all down.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: The idea was to try to apprehend these terrorists by making use of Khubeka.  An appointment was made on a day that the leader of the group of terrorists, who was hidden by Khubeka, to be arrested.  The person had to be lured to a place which had been agreed on beforehand, namely the Durban beach front at Battery Beach.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr du Preez.  Battery Beach, is that the beach that is in front of the old Military Command headquarters?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct Chairperson.  That was the part between there and it was also known as Sunkist.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it near where the snake park used to be there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, it's further up.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Col Botha, van der Westhuizen, Basson and I had by late that afternoon, held surveillance at this place.  Mbane would give a sign if the terrorist or terrorists were with him in the motor vehicle.  The windows of his vehicle were tinted so that we could not see inside.

MR VISSER: Can you recall what type of vehicle it was?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was a Toyota.

MR VISSER: Very well.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: A Corolla.  Now that Mbane arrived there and had parked there, he gave the sign after a short while.  We struck, only to find that Khubeka was alone with Mbane in the vehicle.  We then arrested her and she was immediately removed from the vehicle and taken to our vehicle.

MR VISSER: Mr du Preez, the vehicle which you referred to as "our vehicle", what type of vehicle was this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was a Toyota panel van, a kombi.

MR VISSER: A panel van, does it have windows on the sides and at the back?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It only has one set of windows where the sliding door is.

MR VISSER: What was your part in this so-called arrest?  What did you do exactly?