Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-05

MR MACADAM: 1A she arrives at the door will stand aside and take a cover, covering the second person who is coming to break the door open.  The second one should be carrying a shotgun.  With that arm he has to shoot the top handle(?) of the door to destroy the lock machine so that the door can be opened with ease.  After shooting the lock, then kick the door.  Person No 3 armed with a pistol should enter the door.  He must be possessing a short or small firearm in order to move easily inside the building.  Person No 4 should also follow to assist inside the building.  When approaching the corners of the building, person No 3 will take a cover and person No 4 will advance forward, covered by No 3 and person No 4, if he arrives at a corner or at an obscure place, to follow the very same method, helping each other, using the system which is called the buddy-buddy system, until they reach the room where there is a target.  It is possible that one of them can shoot from an angle where the person who is supposed to hit the target is from a different angle to the person who is supposed to hit the target.  It has to be like that, because if the person, the target inside the house is armed, that person have to be decepted(?) to aim and shoot in the direction where there is the firing.  Therefore person No 4 get the chance to crawl towards the target and hit the target, because usually the target will be paying much concentration to where the first shot came from and person No 4 will come from the side and shoot the target.  Therefore you have to be careful or cautious not to leave cartridges.  In most cases you have to insert socks in the cartridge ejector of the firearm to ensure that if the firearm ejects the cartridge, the cartridge will fall into the socks and will

MR MACADAM: /not

MR MACADAM: 1A not be left at the scene of the crime and you have to quickly rush out of the place safely and disappear from the scene of crime.  I would say this is the house penetration details.

MR MACADAM: And yesterday you also mentioned infiltration techniques.  What were those?

WITNESS:   When talking about infiltration, this is the method which is normally used to infiltrate into the enemy camp, getting the necessary information without alerting them that you are the enemy.  There are so many different methods of disguising.  Depending on the enemy and the base where they stay, I will describe infiltration as a very wide idea, because you can infiltrate a firm with the aim of following one of your enemy who works in that particular firm.  For example, you'll have to find some way to find the uniform of that particular firm or company.  If possible you can grab the guard on - at the gates, strip him of his uniform and take it and wait in order to enter the premises.  That's one kind of infiltration method.  I will say infiltration, it's pretending that a person who is innocent while you knew that your aim is to find something necessary.  It's like entering into a place where you knew you were not going to be able to enter the place if it is known that you are the enemy.  I'll say that's as far as I will go with infiltration.

MR MACADAM: What was intended to be done with the information that you gathered in that process?

WITNESS:   The information helps you because in most of the cases we needed information.  Sometimes you have to know how armed is your enemy, to know their strategies or to know whether your group or your people have been killed in order to prevent

MR MACADAM: /that

MR MACADAM: 1A that particular situation with the information at hand;  to learn more about their tactics and to counteract such tactics.

MR MACADAM: You described yesterday and today a range of activi-ties which you've said which form part of the advanced training.  Are there any other important aspects of the advanced training which you recall at this stage, other than these things that you've explained to us already?

MR MACADAM: MR    (?): Mr Chairman, is that correct?  I'm not raising an objection, it's just I didn't understand this witness to have arrived at the advanced training.  I thought we're still busy with basic training.

MR LYSTER: Yesterday afternoon we left off I think what was called the secondary or secondary training and we said that this morning we would start with advanced training.
MR    (?): I'm sorry, Mr Chairman, but I thought yesterday's evidence was part of the basic training.  I'm just asking for elucidation here.

MR LYSTER: No, yesterday we started with basic and then we went on to secondary and Mr Macadam said at the end of yesterday's evidence that we would spend today or this morning's evidence on advanced.

MR LASICH: On advanced.  I'm sorry, Mr Macadam.

MR MACADAM: If you could proceed to explain to us if there are any other aspects, other than those which you already mentioned to us.

WITNESS:   I will able to answer any specific question, if possible.

MR MACADAM: Your own accord, which you recall, over and above what you've told us which stands out or is memorable in the - that phase of the training.

WITNESS:   Your Honour, it's so difficult for me to remember everything that

MR MACADAM: /happened

MR MACADAM: 1A happened during the training, because it happened in 1986.  Today it's 1997.  There is a difference of about eleven years in between.  I have experienced difficult situations.  I don't trust my memory very well at this moment.  However, if Your Honour would like to ask me questions based on the training, I will be able to explain or expand.  Because we didn't stop at the advanced training.  We continued to a specialised course.  If there are some things which we came across during the advanced stage which I have left out and if Your Honour thinks I haven't mentioned it, you can ask me questions.

MR MACADAM: What was done after you had completed the advanced stage?

WITNESS:   We divided into groups.  Others were taken to do offensive and defensive.  Some were taken for VIP protection.  Some were taken for contra-mobilisation and I was included within the contra-mobilisation group.

MR MACADAM: And approximately how many other persons were in your group?  Can you recall?

WITNESS:   I don't remember well, but we were about eight.

MR MACADAM: And what type of training did you receive at that stage while you were part of this group?

WITNESS:   If I remember well we were taught how to prepare a speech, about public speaking;  about advertising;  the handling of interviews;  the aim of contra-mobilisation was to mobilise for our organisation in order to have debates with our - with opposite organisation;  to be able to answer during interviews if ever questions are put to us and also to recruit new members for our organisation and also to uplift(?) it and build it to a big organisation through advertising.  I will say that's all that we're doing during the contra-mobilisation phase.

MR MACADAM: /Once

MR MACADAM: 1A Once that phase had been completed, did you proceed to receive any further training in that place?

WITNESS:   My group didn't continue.  The VIP protection group continued with the training because they left us at the camp two weeks earlier, they left two weeks earlier and we were told that we were still going to continue with the training at another place and they were to be taught how to drive, because they were supposed to protect the dignitaries.  The area in which we were, it was a desert area, so you couldn't drive around, therefore it became necessary that we should be taken for training in another place.  They continued training and we left the area - by the time we left the area they didn't yet came back to the camp and we happened to meet them while we were back in the country.

MR MACADAM: And you didn't receive any other training after this contra-mobilisation group training?  If you could just confirm, because that's how I understand your evidence.