Amnesty Hearings — East London — 2000-02-03

MR DU PLESSIS: Is it possible that there could have been a misunderstanding concerning the issue of the order by yourself to the troops in the vehicle to let this Rifleman Gonya to understand that he was also supposed to open fire?  Do you think it's possible?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It is possible because at the stage that the people were shooting, that's why I was stating that some of the soldiers shoot without my order so it's obvious that maybe Rifleman Gonya shoot without my order whilst I was busy communicating with the helicopters, with the higher authorities at that stage.

MR DU PLESSIS: Well I furthermore - Sir, I would like to refer you to the indication in paragraph 5 of your statement at facts, paragraph 5 of facts, where we've indicated that there's 28 people that were deceased, who died in this incident but it's indicated by the summary that there's indeed 30 or 29 people that deceased.  You do not know how many people were deceased in this incident, is that correct?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: No.

MR DU PLESSIS: Colonel, I would like to take you one step further, whether - you've indicated that you've been advised that your actions may have been regarded as illegitimate or wrong and you've also indicated that in as far as your belief may be wrong, you beg for amnesty.  What do you say today to the actions that occurred on the 7th September 1992 concerning instructions you've given?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes, I can say that I regret my actions because it was not my intention to kill people in that incident.  I regret it with my - wholehearted.

MR DU PLESSIS: Is there any other aspect that you would like to place before this commission this moment in time, Sir?  You've got now the opportunity, we've gone through the statement we've handed in as Exhibit A, we have discussed or reiterated some of the points here, is there any other aspect you would like to place for the commission in this moment in time?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes Sir.  Sir, what I can enlighten here is that on that day, according to the information received from our intelligence and our commander, that they would overthrow of the government and you must protect the Ciskei territory, Bisho, at any costs.  So it was on that day that I say I regret my actions for what I've done but nevertheless we are not there to go and shoot at people, we are there to protect the Bisho territory and to ensure that the marchers remain where they are supposed to stay, in the stadium.

MR DU PLESSIS: I thank the Committee.  Mr Chairperson, that's the evidence in chief.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Du Plessis.  Mr Smith, have you got any questions?

MR SMITH: Yes Mr Chairperson.
	Are you still a colonel, do you hold the rank of a colonel?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: No Sir.

MR SMITH: Mr Mkosana, I just want to establish a few things.  Could you explain to the Committee the deployment of troops on the 7th September, where they were deployed and the numbers?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes Sir.  Firstly we were deployed inside the stadium whilst the march was not permitted.  When the march was permitted we withdrew from the stadium and we occupied the route of the Jangilanga Crescent road.  The number that were there was only one platoon of which was under the command of Major Ndandes.

MR SMITH: How many soldiers are there in a platoon?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: In a platoon we normally of 36 soldiers.  36.

MR SMITH: 36?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes.

MR SMITH: And the other deployments?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: The other deployments we have deployed across the Parliament Streets and the Ministerial complex.  We have also deployed some troops there.

MR SMITH: Also a platoon?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It was a company.

MR SMITH: I'm not very - how many soldiers is that?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: A company consists ...(intervention)

MR SMITH: How many soldiers would that be?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It's consists of about three platoons which means about ...(intervention)

MR SMITH: 36 times three?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes Sir.  And the other deployment was in Yellowwoods, one company was on standby at Yellowwoods Farm.

MR SMITH: And at Fort Hare buildings?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes, the ones who were at Fort Hare, that included the ones which were deployed across the parliament and ministerial complex.

MR SMITH: Now you were the field or there's evidence that you were the field commander.  Were you in overall control of all the troops deployed?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes I can put it in that way, those were deployed on the ground.

MR SMITH: Now the communications network, were you the only one that by way of radio could speak to Van der Bank or Ulshief, your more senior officers?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes I was the only one.

MR SMITH: And your communications with the people under you, how was that set up?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: The set up was that I had my communication with the commander, Colonel van der Bank, the mobile commander and then I got a communication with my subordinates, company commanders on the ground, the ones which were deployed in the parliament and the ones that were deployed in the Jangilanga Crescent road and the ones which were deployed in the Yellowwoods, we have the link of communication.

MR SMITH: So was this an open communication line, if you spoke to any one commander, any one company commander, did all of them - the other company commanders be able to hear what you've saying, following instruction or how did that work?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: That's positive.

MR SMITH: Okay.  Now what weapons were your soldiers armed with on that day?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: We only carried leather weapons, leather weapons, live ammunition.

MR SMITH: Okay, what type of rifles?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It was R4, 40 mm, grenades and LMGs.

MR SMITH: Why was it necessary to use or take with you a grenade launcher?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: As I have put it before, Sir, I said the situation according to the intelligence about which we received, they indicated to us that there will be a coup, the marchers will take over Ciskei and there were also certain members of uMkhonto weSizwe who will attack us so we the soldiers must be fully armed.

MR SMITH: Now when you - let me further you with this ...(intervention)

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Smith, are you going to be asking him a question on a different aspect, just have one question on this issue on ...(intervention)

MR SMITH: Yes on a different aspect.

ADV SANDI: Yes, yes just one thing Mr Mkosana, whose decision was this that this type of weapons should be carried along with?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It was a decision of the deputy commander, General van der Bank.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

MR SMITH: Now how many people were in the vehicle that you were travelling in?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: It was only about 10 people with the driver.

MR SMITH: And amongst the 10 was also Rifleman Gonya?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Gonya, yes.

MR SMITH: Now were you part that was in Jangilanga Crescent?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes.

MR SMITH: Did you hear shots being fired?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Sir, I hear...(intervention)

MR SMITH: From the crowd.

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: From the crowd?  No, I hear from my troops saying we are being fired now.

MR SMITH: Did you, let me just get clarity, did you say that you heard from your troops on the ground?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Yes.

MR SMITH: That you were being fired at, that the soldiers were being fired at?

VAKELE ARCHIBALD MKOSANA: Let me clarify it this way.  I heard this first that there were shots that were being fired from the vehicle which I was on and that's when subsequently I heard also some shots fired, about two or three I don't know but there was a shot fired.