Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1997-08-04

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I don't remember the day but it was during the tea break at the court, when we went out to the toilet.   Msizi was following his attorney Colin Stein and I asked Msizi as to why he had killed my husband, why did he do it.  He did not answer me because they were getting into Stein's office at the time.
	The following day when we were proceeding to the toilet, I heard somebody calling me sister Tandi, sister Tandi.  I asked Mrs Kuzwayo as to who was calling me but he was somewhere at the window and Mrs Kuzwayo said I should go to that window and I proceeded towards the window.  
	I stood there, the window was just above me and I heard somebody saying, I heard that yesterday you were asking as to why I had killed your husband, I was sent by Mr Djamile.  He even told me that he pointed out Mr Zazi and I screamed later on and called people to come and listen to Msizi.  
	They came, that is including Mr Mthembu and a certain policeman who was in there.  They opened and he spoke in front of all the other people as he had spoken to me before and now I'm surprised that he's denying it today.

MR DIAZ: Mrs Mkhize is it true that after Mr Hlope said, sister Tandi, sister Tandi addressing himself to you, Mrs Kuzwayo in whose company you were tried to stop you from going to this voice but you of course indicated the person was addressing you and you were desirous of listening to him?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: And then when you got to the voice, did you recognise this voice as being that of the applicant, Mr Hlope?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: Yes, he told me that he was Msizi Hlope because I could not see him as the window as a little bit above me and I just could not see who was behind the window.

MR DIAZ: Did he then say to you, I heard the words that you uttered towards me yesterday that I shot your husband, I did not do it of my own free will to go and kill brother Mandla, I had been pressurized or forced by Djamile?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: Did he then proceed to say, I am now prepared to confess about everything because I did not do any of these things out of my own volition, I had been pressurized to do it?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: He did not say that he was prepared to confess or admit, I said to him, you must tell the court whatever you are telling me.

MR DIAZ: Did Mr Hlope the applicant, admit to you that he had killed your husband or did he not?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: Yes, he did.

MR DIAZ: In admitting that he killed your husband, what did he say to you, what were his words?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: He said, I am the one but I was instructed by Mr Djamile, I did not do it out of my own volition.

MR DIAZ: According to page 86 of the record, for the purpose of the record, you then became hysterical, you fell to the ground, you were taking away back to the parking area by Mrs Kuzwayo but before this you said to the applicant - it does not help to come and tell me all this since you killed my own husband, correct?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: Thereafter the applicant said to you that he was prepared to go and confess in court and tell the court everything about what happened.

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: Is it not correct that you then enquired form the applicant when precisely he was going to make such a confession whereupon he replied that when it came to his turn to talk in court, he would make such a confession?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: Is it not true that you then left with Mrs Kuzwayo, you went to the front of the court and you said to persons that Msizi had made this admission to you whereupon persons including Constable Zuma approached the applicant?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I don't remember quite well because it's quite some time but I saw a lot of people milling around us at the time.

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry Mrs Mkhize, did you tell him to go to the court and tell the court the truth or did he offer to tell the truth?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I said to him he mustn't tell me, he must tell it to the court and then he said he will tell it to the court when his turn to speak comes.

MR DIAZ: And Mrs Mkhize, is it not true that you made a report of this to Constable Zuma and to other persons?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I don't remember who told them but I saw people milling around where I had fallen, I don't remember whether I told them or somebody else did.

MR DIAZ: Thereafter you made statements to Advocate Mike Himber about this and so did Mrs Kuzwayo who was then in your company.

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: That is true.

MR DIAZ: Do you recall the applicant having responded under cross-examination that when he talked to you under those circumstances, his principle objective was to ask you to bring clothing for him from his sister?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: How could he send me because I was his enemy as far as I'm concerned, that's why he killed my husband.

MR DIAZ: During the trial you mentioned that as you were crying and you turned away, it is then that he talked about some clothing but that was not the chief motive, correct?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I don't remember anything about the clothes.

MR DIAZ: Mrs Mkhize, at some stage you had the opportunity ...(intervention)

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: No English translation.

MR DIAZ: ... you had the opportunity of listening to two cassettes, were these cassettes given to you ...(intervention)

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: Yes, that is true.

MR DIAZ: Did you hear - sorry, who's voice did you hear on those cassettes?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I did not stay with Msizi so I did not know his voice, I wasn't sure of the voice that I heard but the person who was speaking was talking about Mr Mkhize's death and that's what happened thereafter.  I believed that this should have been his voice.

MR DIAZ: To the extent that you were familiar about the manner in which your husband came to be killed, was the description on the cassette in accordance with that, that really took place with the facts.

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I was not present during the time that he was killed, I was in the upstairs room and he was killed where the cars were.  I heard some sound of gunfire, about three shots and I heard my child screaming but when I listened to the cassette I heard because he was shot on the cheek and his tooth fell out onto the car seat and we go the tooth and a later stage.
	When I listened to that cassette later on from Lawrence Ndjali Djali, I heard about the tooth and to me the story fell into place.  The missing part of the jigsaw puzzle was sorted out as far as I'm concerned.

MR DIAZ: Was there any admission on the cassette that the person who spoke on it admitted to having killed Mr Mandla Mkhize and Mrs Shabalala?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: Yes, he did.

MR DIAZ: And is it not true that the voice on the cassette also identified himself as a person who pointed out Zazi Kuzwayo and Kushana Kuzwayo for the purposes of later killing them too?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: Yes.

MR DIAZ: You heard the evidence of the applicant about an old lady who was a tenant of your late husband and who also gave information, apparently to Djamile about certain ANC and UDF meetings that took place at your house, do you wish to say anything about that?

ZAMASWAZI TANDI MKHIZE: I do not remember that woman, I do not know that woman.  If that woman was there, probably she was not old because people who were staying there at the time were not elderly people, they were just fairly young.  I don't know whether he's referring to a woman or specifically an elderly woman.

MR DIAZ: But you say you that you know your husband well and insofar as you're concerned your husband - sorry, perhaps I should ask it as a question than leading you, did your husband hold any ANC and UDF meetings.