Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-28

CHAIRPERSON: For the record I am Judge Pillay.

ADV POTGIETER: I am Advocate Potgieter.

MR SIBANYONI: For the record I am J B Sibanyoni, committee member.

MR MAPOMA: For the record my name is Zuko Mapoma, leader of evidence.

MR MARTINDALE: For the record I am Robert Martindale, attorney representing the applicants.

MR MAPOMA: Mr Chairman the applicant at this stage is Mr Norman Gilindota Nxkwa, amnesty application number 0148/96. Thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any agreements that we should know?

MR MAPOMA: Mr Chairman there are no particular agreements, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Martindale?

MR MARTINDALE: Mr Chairman the applicant is presently serving a sentence for three convictions for murder. As a result of these convictions he was given the death sentence in all three cases. These convictions were commuted to a prison sentence, 30 years for each conviction. They are running concurrently and he presently applies for amnesty in respect of these three cases. He has made an application on form one and today he supplemented that application. And the original of his supplementary statement was handed to the committee this morning. I call on Mr Nxkwa to give evidence and take him through his statements.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nxkwa have you any objections to the taking of the oath?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: No objections Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you please stand?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may be seated.

MR MARTINDALE: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Nxkwa as I understand it you made your original application in Xhosa?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: Yes Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: And then you made a supplementary affidavit today?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: And those two documents comprise your application?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: Please repeat your question?

MR MARTINDALE: Those two documents; the original form one and the supplementary affidavit comprise your application for amnesty?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: In terms of your application you say you are now a member of the African National Congress?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct.

MR MARTINDALE: During 1985 you were a supporter of the United Democratic Front?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: And it was in 1985 when these three  events leading to your conviction for murder happened?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Martindale can you jus give me a minute please? Mr Mapoma have you, I see there is no representative for any victim.

MR MAPOMA: Yes Mr Chairman there is no representative for the victims.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any members of the families here of any of the victims?

MR MAPOMA: There are members of two of the deceased's families.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there notice given to the other?

MR MAPOMA: Yes they were all notified Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you spoken to those family members who are present?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Mr Chair I have spoken to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Are they aware that they can approach you if they have a problem or they need to draw your attention to anything?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Sir, in fact I have consulted with them.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: Thank you Mr Chairman. In 1985, Mr Nxkwa you state that you were a member of a action committee can you please tell the committee briefly what your involvement was and what this committee was?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: In 1985 as comrades we were active at Nombuthle. One day we gathered and we burnt Whitie to death and Lemi. We got Whitie from home.

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you carry on. I do not know if you understood the question. The question was that in your application you referred to an action committee, what was that action committee?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: It comprised of comrades who were active at the time during 1985.

MR MARTINDALE: Mr Nxkwa, this action committee did it get its instructions from some one or what made the action committee carry out acts or carry out its task?

CHAIRPERSON: Let me ask, what was its task?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: We looked after the Nombuthle community because the government of the day was very oppressive.

MR MARTINDALE: Was it a political organisation?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: Yes.

MR MARTINDALE: Now Mr Nxkwa in your application you state that the three murders that you were convicted of the one deceased was Thando Dlala?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: The one was a Mr Monwabisi Reginald Venayo known and Lemi?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct.

MR MARTINDALE: And the one was Mr Tosamili Michael Dondoshi known as Whitie?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: You also state that you took part actively in the killing of Lemi and Whitie?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: In respect of Lemi you stated you stabbed him?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct.

MR MARTINDALE: And you were in a group that threw rocks at him and set him a light?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: In respect of Whitie you state that you also stabbed him and tied his hands?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: And you were also in a group of comrades that killed him?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct.

MR MARTINDALE: Mr Chairman I am instructed that the committee has a bundle of documents and it is a bundle of documents that comprises the judgments in the three cases concerning those three people; Thando Dlala, Lemi and Whitie. And Mr Nxkwa in respect of Lemi and Whitie has in his statement referred to the judgments in those cases and with the leave of the committee I am just going to take him through what he states here briefly. Mr Nxkwa you state that the factual details relating to the date that the deceased were killed, the place where they were killed and the cause of death appears from the court judgments handed down in those cases. Are you, in respect of those do you agree with the factual findings in those cases relating to the place they were killed and the cause of death?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MARTINDALE: Now you have mentioned Lemi and Whitie can you just tell the committee what you know in respect of Thando Dlala?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: I do not have any knowledge about Thando Dlala because I was not present when he was killed. I was just tortured by the investigating officers and therefore admitted and that is how I was sentenced for that case.

MR MARTINDALE: So as I understand it the circumstances surrounding the death of Whitie and Lemi and your participation you agree with?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir I agree with it.

MR MARTINDALE: But not in respect of Dlala?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir, no.

MR MARTINDALE: You further state in your application that the reason why Lemi and Whitie were killed was because they were impimpis or informers?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me when you look at page three of your application, there in front of you.

MR MARTINDALE: Yes I have got it Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: No I want him to look at it. Did you fill in that application?

NORMAN GILINDOTA NXKWA: Yes I am the one who filled it in but I asked a fellow prisoner to assist me with the writing.

CHAIRPERSON: I see. Now on page four at paragraph 9a (i), the question there is
"Furnish sufficient particulars of the acts, omissions or offences associated with a political objective in respect of which amnesty is sought. Including dates, places, nature thereof and names of any other persons involved."
	Now let us not concern ourselves with the dates and the places and names of other people. Your application there states that you make application for amnesty in respect of murder by means of a necklace three times. Is that correct?