Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MR SIYOKO: I will try to explain - we were all  here - we would come back from work - what was happening here is that it was difficult to even go to town, we would be attacked.  We tried to lay charges but comrades were not allowed to lay charges.  The police would say only the  informers that could lay charges.  The comrades could not lay charges - I would try to run away as the police and the informers would chase me - I could not go to town - I had to stay in the township.
 What was happening then at the time - if you are honest and you were there you would not be able to tolerate such.  It was an ambivalent situation - what we were trying to do is to make the councillors step down because they made their own conclusions without consulting the community.  If you are a community leader you  must listen to the community - you must listen to their views - you then make decisions according to that - or if not - you negotiate with the people - you  make discussions.  But everybody must know that the situation in Hanover was due to the police.
 In 1985 when we started in the struggle we called the police, I was not working in Cape Town at the time - I was working here in Hanover.  We got up early in the morning - it was the first time we were involved in the struggle - we asked all the parents not to go to work - so that we could sort out our lives in Hanover.
Because there was no stable amount of rent - they looked at how much you earned and then took a percentage of that.  We would both - if there are two families in two roomed houses, one earned R500-00 and the other R1,000-00 the rent would differ.  They would take 10% of your salary and that would be the rent.  We could not accept such, that is why we tried to rise up as residents of Hanover.
We even tried and invited the Councillors to come to the meetings they refused but we made them step down because we could not be led by people who did not consider us at all.
When the councillors would come to tell us that the rent has gone up, and if you questioned why the rent was raised, they would say that it is the white people that has decided therefore there  is nothing that can be done.  It is such instances that caused chaos in Hanover.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you so you are saying that there was then this conflict between the comrades on the one hand and those people that were anticipating on the system on the other hand and the police were in a way on the side of the people who participated in the system like the councillors and all those people.
 Now Mr Nkumbi we heard from testimony that he was actually working elsewhere - he wasn't working in Hanover - he was working somewhere else - where did he fit into this picture - why was it that it was clear that if he was taken into the township his life was at great risk?

MR SIYOKO: I did not understand your question well - could you ask me again please sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I have said first of all that I understand the picture that you have painted the background to the conflict we understand that and Ms Seroke has read some of the information as well which makes it clear what the sort of background was.
 What I was trying to ascertain is the deceased Mr Nkumbi - how did he fit into this picture  why was it that he was - his life would have been at risk if he was taken into  the township and left there - I would like to understand what the problem was with him - what did the people have against him - what did he do that was wrong?

MR SIYOKO: According to my knowledge what happened is - Mr Nkumbi's life was not at risk as such - but because his uncle stayed in the tents - because his uncle was not within the community he then realised that he was not safe with us.
 According to my understanding it is his family that influenced him - he took the burden of his family onto his shoulders, he would assault people.  He hit a certain comrade with a brick stone on the face, when charges were laid the police refused to take the case.  They would not take the report because they said it is only the informers  cases that would be considered and not the comrades.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] that - just to come back or just in conclusion to your situation you were tortured you were assaulted and they wanted you to admit that you were involved in this murder and you were not here you were - you were not in Hanover when it happened did they eventually assaulted you into making a statement confessing to this murder or what happened?

MR SIYOKO: First of all the police beat me - I told them the same report that I am giving now, I gave to the police - I gave in court as well - they beat me up.  I was naked - after that they accused me of murder - I never admitted to murder - I never admitted to murder because I was not there - it's as simple as that.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] you at the trial on - that they used to convict you on - to find you guilty on, what evidence was there against you.

MR SIYOKO: Yes there was such evidence - I can give you somebody's name as Mr Nkumbi was here as he was sitting here he is the first one who said in court that I killed his brother.  I was found guilty because of the Mr Nkumbi that was sitting here.
 If somebody had to be accused the police would give a statement to the witnesses and that is the evidence that they would give - evidence given to them by the police.  Mr Nkumbi together as a family they were there - they gave evidence that I had killed Mr Nkumbi.  All they wanted was to make a claim so that they could later get money from the police - they were even paid for having giving false evidence.  They gave evidence, we were found guilty.
 I tried to get an alibi because as I said there is a friend of mine that was always with me - I was with this man at De Aar on the day Mr Nkumbi died.  He went and gave evidence - he told the court that we were in De Aar at the time - we arrived the day after the murder.  But even after that evidence Mr Nkumbi gave evidence that I killed his brother.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] on the evidence of members of the families of the deceased.

MR SIYOKO: Yes it is because of the their evidence - they said we had murdered the brother.  If there are five witnesses giving evidence against one single person they are going to outweighed you.  Even if I had - as I had an alibi they outweighed me because there were five of them.

ADV POTGIETER: Now - thank you very much the picture is much clearer.  What - what effect has this still got today - has this still got an effect in this community -  this particular incident from your prospective?

MR SIYOKO: I do not have a problem I know that my hands are clean they are not stained with Mr Nkumbi's blood - I am happy within the community - I tried to demonstrate towards Mr Nkumbi - he gave false evidence so that he could make a claim for money to regain.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] your perspective you have overcome that - you have overcome this - you don't feel any hard feelings at this stage - you've reconciled yourself with this incident.

MR SIYOKO: It is the man that sentenced me to 18 years that I am begrudging - he was told that I was not there I had an alibi but he did not listen to me - he would not listen to me.  I know the reason behind all this - I personally have no problem with these people my heart is clean it is pure.  I know exactly what happened.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] correctly you putting blame on the judicial system as well you say that a person who actually in spite of what you said, still convicted you and sent you to prison - that is the one that you blame, otherwise you have reconciled yourself with this incident.

MR SIYOKO: I have no problem with the Nkumbi family.