Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-07

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.  Constable Ngcobo and Visagie, Constable Visagie.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Will you please read the content of that paragraph then into the record?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay.
During the rescue operation at Edendale Hospital, two armed police officers on guard in the intensive care ward, were wounded during the shoot-out and returned fire inside and outside intensive care ward.  Although my role and my position were situated approximately two kilometres from the scene, I was nevertheless convicted of the assault of these two police officers on the grounds of common purpose.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Judge the aspect dealing with harbouring or concealing - Oh sorry, I see you've got some pages with  you, it's dealt with on page 16 of the indictment, column 12, it's Section 54(iv) of Act 74 of 1982 and it's dealt with in the summary more fully from page 41 onwards.

JUDGE PILLAY: Why I asked is just that I thought it would be more pleasing on the palate to refer it to as a contravention of a section, rather than terrorists.

MR DEHAL: I agree.  Thank you.  Okay, Ms Narkedien, you're at paragraph 8, did you read that in?  No sorry, I don't think you did that.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I did.

MR DEHAL: Did you?

CHAIRPERSON: She's read paragraph 8.  We're now going on to paragraph 9.

MR DEHAL: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Paragraph 9 deals with the reconnaissance of substations.  You were there convicted of terrorism, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And you said during July 1986 on your trip from Johannesburg to Durban on Robert's instructions you recorded the positions of several electrical substations from Nigel to Ladismith?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: These were recorded on an envelope that you had on your person when you were arrested.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And when the Security Police saw this envelop, they questioned you about it.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: All that was recorded on the envelope were positions from Johannesburg to here and different distances.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: Is it correct that when you speak of Johannesburg to Durban, this was a return trip before your intention to finally depart from the country?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: When I say yours, I mean yours and Robert McBride's.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And what was the purpose of doing this reconnaissance?  Was it to take it out of the country or was it to carry out the operations?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: At the time Robert didn't explain to me why I should take down those notes, but I just assumed in my own way that if he's recording these substations, so many kilometres from this town to that town, that probably it could have been for sabotage, because at that time electrical substations were being sabotaged in different parts of the country, so I thought and we were leaving the country within a few days, perhaps he was going to give that to the MK Commanders or something.

MR DEHAL: But that didn't happen?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  Now do you know of the discipline commonly referred to as need-to-know discipline?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Were you formerly recruited by Mr McBride into MK?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I was formerly recruited by him.

MR DEHAL: And were you educated in the policies, guidelines, etc of the ANC, of MK?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I was trained by Robert and by our Commander, Steve Mkhize, well Gordon Webster eventually, about the importance of, we actually used to call it military code words.  In other words you could only be told what your role is.  At that time there were so many police informers and so on and we were all so paranoid, so that any person could only be told exactly what you had to do, he could not be told everything, I mean it wasn't a social club that we were working in, it was a very strict unit.

MR DEHAL: And you understood this principle well?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I understood it and I accepted it.

MR DEHAL: Is it correct that in the execution of that discipline, that principle, if you were told to do something, especially by a Commander in your unit, you were not allowed to ask questions, you were not expected to ask questions, you were simply required to follow them?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I could not ask questions and I knew even if I did, people would be suspicious of me.  Why do you want to ask questions, are you going to carry this information to somebody else.  There was far too much paranoia at the time.

MR DEHAL: For good reasons.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: For good reasons, which I understood yes.

MR DEHAL: Before you - sorry - before you were recruited by McBride into MK, you were sufficiently active at the time though in Wentworth and about?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And you were familiar with Setchabas, Radio Freedom, Allan Taylor Residence?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.  I had access to a lot of banned literature at that time, so I was well informed about what the ANC's policies were, what the Kabwe Conference was and all the needs for the codes of secrecy to be upheld at all times and the discipline of MK units, so I was well-informed, yes.

MR DEHAL: And I think it's fairly common knowledge by now that both you and comrade Robert had developed a personal relationship during the course of all these operations.  Did that personal relationship in any way interfere with the code and the discipline of need-to-know basis?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, it didn't interfere at all because Robert and I were first and foremost revolutionaries and comrades.  It was in this working together that we developed an intimate relationship but we didn't start off as intimate people.

MR DEHAL: The relationship was incidental?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Okay, I take you to paragraph 10 wherein you deal with the commitment to reconciliation.  Will you please read that?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Okay.
It is clear that I was associated in operations which resulted in injuries sustained by victims and the death of Mr Buthelezi.  Despite the minimal role I played in these operations, I accept political responsibility for such injuries and death.  I express my deep sorrow to the victims concerned and mostly to the parents and the family of the late Mr Buthelezi.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Ms Narkedien, we dealt briefly with the other acts in regard to which you were charged but acquitted.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: One of those acts is commonly known as the Why Not, or otherwise colloquially referred to as the Magoo's bar operation.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: You have heard much testimony in these proceedings on that operation.  To begin with you've heard Mr McBride's full disclosure on the Why Not operation.  Do you agree with his disclosures relating to your role play on that operation, the Why Not operation?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I fully accept what he said.

MR DEHAL: To deal briefly with the Why Not operation, is it correct that you drove the parties from Wentworth to the Why Not area and then back again?  At some stage you drove one car and at other stages with them, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: But that you did not know of the car bomb and that this was the version in the trial and you were acquitted on it?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: In regard to the second Chamberlain Road incident, which comrade Robert deals with in Exhibit G in paragraph 8, is it correct that there as well in as much as  you were charged, you were acquitted, but you had simply driven Robert and others away from that substation for about a kilometre away from that substation which is from his father's workshop?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: And that in that operation you had not known of the substation explosion either before or after it?