Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-10

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Zwelitsha gave us a statement that - gave us his role as you are stating it.  He was in charge and he was also a home guard.  He also told us how did Lezo and Oscar arrive and the suspicion that you had against this people and he said he was also the one who was suspicious.
 Just because he was in such a hurry to get a training, so that there people could not be killed, they needed the training desperately.  I want to be clear and also to make it clear to you that your suspicion was up to something, because we've got some statements that this Lezo and Oscar were the Ascaris who were sent by the policemen from Pretoria.
 They sent Lezo and Oscar.  By the time we were listening to the Guguletu-7 case it came up clear that Lezo and Oscar were sent by policemen to come and interfere to the communities and now you are giving us another opinion and Zwelitsha gave us something to look upon.
 This made it clear to us what were these Ascaris doing, so it shows that there is something suspicious about them.  And shows us the role of the policemen because these Ascaris came to your place, Nyanga Bush in squatter camps and yet it was a place with so much violence and then in Guguletu as if these two are not combined.
 So it is all clear to show us the dirty works of the policemen in South Africa.  That is what I wanted to say.  We would like you to come to March and tell us by the time you were being arrested and Lezo phoned, saying something about your car.  We would like to come to that and let's just start from the time Lezo asked you to come by car.

MELFORT YAMILE: He said telephonically we must meet him in
Cape Town, because he brought us some arms this time, so I refused.  I said to my friends, why is he - why does  he want to meet us in Cape Town, why can't he come the same way that he came, why is he calling us to Cape Town.  Maniqwa and I didn't agree on this one.
 I said gentlemen, I am going to a meeting.  It was Easter Monday, Monday in 1986, I said I am going to lock my car, I am not going there, you can get yourselves another can and indeed, and I asked them not to listen to this thing.
 So they got a Valiant and then went to Cape Town.  It was Maniqwa and Zwelitsha Mkhulutha and another, the owner of the car.  That's where they were arrested in Cape Town, Zwelitsha and Maniqwa and the owner of the vehicle.
 The one with whose car they went.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: When last did you see Zwelitsha?

MELFORT YAMILE: Last year, last year.  I haven't seen him this year.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: He has given us a statement and it ties up with what you are saying that they were called by Lezo to parade, in the same way you are outlining.  He said they should meet at the parade and then whilst they were meeting, some police came and then arrested them.
 The police called Lezo by his first name and they were handcuffed and Lezo was not handcuffed.  It makes it very clear that as the police in the statement about the Guguletu-7, they said the reason they killed them like that, they didn't have any way of arresting them.
 But according to your statement it was said that Lezo was arrested and then that's how Zwelitsha and the other guy escaped, because they were not allowed to be out of the prison.
 Now, here is an example, they managed to arrest Zwelitsha in a manner that was more refined than what happened in Guguletu.  Now they sent their informers to you and you, at what stage were you arrested, how were you arrested?

MELFORT YAMILE: On that same day when they were arrested on the parade, on that Monday, that Easter Monday I came back from the meeting and went back home.  Whilst I was at home, I saw a casper stopping in front of my house and then another in front of another, then a third casper and then these policemen came out.
 It was this person who was masked.  I went out of my door, they said, go back, go back.  So I came back.  My nephew Tobile Silano who is in Johannesburg and my sister's kids and some young kids and Sabolela has gone to that.
 There was another Sotho speaking person who was a friend of my friend, I accommodated him because he didn't have ...  Then in the house the one behind my house, they searched and they found some weapons.
 This house is behind mine, they found three AK47's and some pistols and they were pointed out by this masked person.  Then they came to my house, they asked for Yamile, I said - Barnard said no, you are not, where is your head from  springbok skin, so I went to fetch it and Barnard said, no, indeed, this is him.
 They took a photograph of me, then they said we want to search, I said go ahead, search.  They searched, and searched, and searched my room, they started my room to the next room, they turned everything upside down, found nothing.
 They went to the kitchen, there were some flour, they even searched in the flour and nothing was in there.  Then they gave up and Barnard said I don't know whether we leave him or should not leave him, because I could hear the language they were speaking.
 And then they said go to the casper and then another tall policeman, he said there is the springbok, there is the springbok.  Then they said take all of them, don't leave anyone here.  Women, child, this masked person is in another, then we were put in another. 
 We were taken to Mannenberg and then in Mannenberg we were transferred to a van which took us to town.  In town I was taken to Melkbosstrand where I was taken alone and confined there.  Then they distributed us.  The following morning they collected us.
 They asked me if I knew Zwelitsha Mkhulutha and I said no, I didn't know him.  Maniqwa I was shown their pictures, I said no, but I could see that this was him because he had a scar here.
 Then I could see that things are bad because this man had a scar, I realised things were bad.  I could see Maniqwa.  I said, this man said no, then I said no, I don't know.  But I noticed that this one had a scar, this people know you, I said no, I don't know them.
 They asked me about guns, if I knew anything about guns that were taken.  I said you searched my house in my presence, you didn't find any guns.   Who was in the house, they said no one.
 Was it locked, did you kick the doors, they said the person that took into that house, must know about those guns, I don't know.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: But they never linked you with guns?

MELFORT YAMILE: No, that is all they asked me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So when they arrested you, how long did you stay in detention?

MELFORT YAMILE: It was one month, two weeks, I was released on the third one.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Why did they release you?

MELFORT YAMILE: They said I was arrested under Section 29 of the Security Act, they didn't tell me when I would be released, they interrogated me and then they couldn't find me guilty, they released me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: About these guns, were they never linked here?

MELFORT YAMILE: No, he is making a mistake.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: No, he was just giving his statement because it was said you were arrested because of the guns, but you are now explaining that the (indistinct) didn't link you with the guns. Would you say is that why you were released?

MELFORT YAMILE: But what they asked me to explain the owner of those guns, so they said do you like the police and I said yes, I like them.
 Then I said it is good that you confiscated those guns because maybe they are going to kill me.