Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

MR LEWIN: If I could just ask, did you see any vehicles
there that the people came in, and what were those vehicles?

AGNES MANYISA: No they were not moving with any motorcars.  There was only a Casper in the soccer field.  At that time, when they were taking us to the hospital, there was a Casper parked by the soccer field.

MR LEWIN: Did you link the Casper with the people who had been attacking you?

AGNES MANYISA: That's what we suspected because these people TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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who shot us were policemen and the white men were with them as well.  People who saw them are those who never sustained any injuries and she is accompanying me here today, she's the one who will tell exactly what happened because at that time I was already unconscious.

MR LEWIN: And could I ask if there was ever any enquiry into your incident, into your shooting?

AGNES MANYISA: No there was no inquest.

MR LEWIN: Nothing at all?  Did you make a report at the hospital, for instance about the shooting?

AGNES MANYISA: There is someone from the police station who came to enquire about this matter at the hospital but I was in pain at that time, but I just explained whatever I knew at that time.

MR LEWIN: There was no report afterwards later, when you'd gone back home?

AGNES MANYISA: We heard nothing thereafter.

MR LEWIN: You must have thought about this a great deal, then and afterwards, can you tell us now what you think was happening and why it happened?

AGNES MANYISA: I cannot think clearly about this.

MR LEWIN: Mrs Manyisa, thanks very much, I'll pass back
to the chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much, your issue is one of the painful things that were encountered by women all over our country.  I will ask some of the Commissioners to ask you several questions before we can proceed with the other victims.  Yasmin Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: I just want to make sure that I've got the facts of what you're saying correctly down.  You say that you heard gunshots and you then decided to go to your next-door TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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neighbour's house. Is that right?

AGNES MANYISA: That is right.

YASMINE SOOKA: And then did all of you in that house decide to go to the Umfuleni section?

AGNES MANYISA: Yes all of us and my neighbours decided to run to the Umfuleni area but they turned us back and said that they don't want women, they just want our husbands.

YASMINE SOOKA: Who was the, they?

AGNES MANYISA: We don't know them, we don't even know their voices, we can't identify them.

YASMINE SOOKA: And then you decided to come back to your neighbour's house?

AGNES MANYISA: Yes it is so.

YASMINE SOOKA: And then you then heard somebody asking you to open the door.

AGNES MANYISA: Yes it is so.

YASMINE SOOKA: And it is as you opened the door that people fired at you.

AGNES MANYISA: Yes they started immediately.

YASMINE SOOKA: How many of you were there in the house.

AGNES MANYISA: There were many of us but five of us were shot.

YASMINE SOOKA: How many, more or less?

AGNES MANYISA: The people were inside the garage, we might have been in number because even the other people in the neighbourhood ran there to seek hiding, there might have been between 12 and 15, but when we count with the children as well because I had four children and my neighbours as well had six children. We might have been twenty with the children in total.

YASMINE SOOKA: And how many men do you think were shooting at TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
 
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you?

AGNES MANYISA: We don't know where they are from.

YASMINE SOOKA: No no, how many people do you think were shooting at you? Not where they came from?

AGNES MANYISA: I didn't see how many were there, but there was quite a large number.

YASMINE SOOKA: What kind of clothes were they wearing?

AGNES MANYISA: They were dressed in police uniform.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you say that the faces were covered.

AGNES MANYISA: Yes it is so.

YASMINE SOOKA: What were they wearing over their faces?

AGNES MANYISA: They had balaclavas, but it was dark, but we could just see what they had on was just used specifically to cover their faces. And before this had happened in Ivory Park, had there been any kind of trouble before this?

AGNES MANYISA: It was the first time it happened in Ivory Park.

YASMINE SOOKA: Where were your menfolk, were they in the house or had they not come back with you?

AGNES MANYISA: My husband was at work and my neighbour's husband had run away to Umfuleni and they fetched him at
Umfuleni and they hit him and shot him and when they saw him lying on the ground, they thought he was dead but he wasn't dead, they left him lying there.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama, after all of this had happened, how long did you spend in hospital?

AGNES MANYISA: I stayed for three months.

YASMINE SOOKA: And are you properly in good health now or do you still have to go to the hospital?

AGNES MANYISA: I must see doctors but I don't have funds.  Therefore I'm just sitting at home because I cannot afford TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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to see doctors.

YASMINE SOOKA: And after all of this had happened, did the people in Ivory Park get together to find out who these people had been who shot at you?

AGNES MANYISA: No.

AGNES MANYISA: Did you lay a charge at the police station?

YASMINE SOOKA: I never did.

YASMINE SOOKA: Go to any lawyer to assist you in this matter?

AGNES MANYISA: I don't even have the money to pay the lawyers, and even the money to go and see specialist doctors.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you mama.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke?

MS SEROKE: (no translation)

AGNES MANYISA: Our husbands, me and my neighbour, were not in, and we decided that we rather assemble in one place and our houses are shacks and therefore we should rather run into the garage which was used as a spaza where we were protecting ourselves because we were staying in shacks, so we thought that if we were in the shacks the bullets would penetrate, yes it is so.

MS SEROKE: Which other place in Ivory Park was attacked or is it only you in your area or did it happen other areas as well?

AGNES MANYISA: It happened to many people and most of them died.  It didn't happen to us alone.

MS SEROKE: I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you, if I can just ask you one question, how old was Loveness when this happened?

AGNES MANYISA: She was three years old.

CHAIRPERSON: And how old is she now?
TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
 
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AGNES MANYISA: She will be seven years in January.

CHAIRPERSON: You said, how old is she now?

AGNES MANYISA: She'll be turning seven in January.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you see her health?

AGNES MANYISA: I don't think she is very well but it's because I cannot take her to specialist doctors for any thorough examination so I was thinking, should I get finance, I will take her to specialists, even that bullet is still embedded in her leg at the moment.

MS SEROKE: Now things have changed and the Minister of Health has mentioned it many times that people must get health treatment even without payment, moreover young children, did you try and take your child to a doctor as well?

AGNES MANYISA: I did try so that the bullet must be checked in her leg, but her health status is still unstable, that's why I feel that she must get thorough examination because I've been taking her to the doctor all the time because she's still complaining of this bullet in her leg.

MS SEROKE: You said you stayed for three months in
hospital, we heard that the policeman visited you in hospital. Is there any specific question that they were asking you there?

AGNES MANYISA: I do remember because they asked me, this incident, when did it happen? And they wanted to know what kind of people are we.  We told them that we are just ordinary people and we don't even know the people who shot us. That's all the questions they asked me.