Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietersburg — 1996-07-19

PROF MIRING: Do you think of going to university to further your studies?

MR MABOA: Yes I want to go to university.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I'd like to take you back to those two conflicts between the two groups which you refer to as the ANC and AZAPO, and you said the AZAPO group and the community damaged schools.  What were they fighting for?

MR MABOA: I think what made them to damage schools, they thought what we were doing in the ANC was something about chieftainship. They didn't actually know what our youth or our group was all about, because where I'm staying, we have two chiefs, we are all in the same place but we have two chiefs, so when we were growing up we used to go to the same school from both communities, to Radimela School.  The secondary school in our place comprised two communities and those people were forced to separate the schools.  One community therefore went to damage the school in the other community.  This all made us realise that the other people were fighting chieftancy and the ANC was only fighting for freedom.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Are you saying that those people burned the schools?  What was the other community, were they the ANC or the UDF?

MR MABOA: They said our organisation was not ANC, underground we were fighting chieftancy under one of the chiefs.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You also say in your statement that these were the youths on the other side?  I don't understand when you say that it is the youth and if the community were realising that it's the youth, how did it come that the older people or the parents interfered in this conflict?
How did the parents burn the schools?

MR MABOA: All this was caused because the AZAPO did not take what we were saying as an organisation thing.  The main thing they thought was that we wanted the other people who were supporting the other chief to come and support our chief, but that was not our main aim.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you talk about the youth, I understand that you talk about the school kids or do you only talk about the other group?

MR MABOA: The youth that I'm talking about are the school kids.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What were these students calling themselves?  What was the name of their organisation at the time?

MR MABOA: No most of the students didn't participate in our organisation.  They were just youth in the community, they had a certain name, but what surprised us is that in that organisation of the youth, parents were involved who were fighting the other community.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Again I do not understand clearly the reason for the conflict between AZAPO and the ANC like you said in your statement that it was controlled by the youth and not the students. Knowing exactly that during this period in 1986, the conflict was mostly between students in COSAS and others in the AZAPO organisation.

MR MABOA: In our community we called ourselves the Sekukuni Organisation.  The other organisation we only knew as AZAPO.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You didn't know their motives?

MR MABOA: No we did not.

MR MALAN: You said that the AZAPO organisation did not know your aims, they thought that it was about chieftainship, they were wrong, but tell us at the time what indeed were the aims of your organisation, of the Sekukune Youth Group?

MR MABOA: Our aims as the Sekukune Youth Group, we realised that our youth were actually not understanding the aims of organisations, so our aimed were to teach and to educate the youth, their policies and the aims of the organisation. That was our main aim.

MR MALAN: When you arranged that meeting, you say the first meeting was arranged between the AZAPO and ANC or Sekukune Youth Organisations, the first time you went.  In your statement you say that it was arranged between ANC and AZAPO to call that meeting, that first meeting, to clarify issues about the youth related to the election of youth leadership.  Why, I mean what did you have in mind as a programme there? Tell us a bit about the programme, what did you intend to achieve?

MR MABOA: As the Sekukune Youth Organisation in our whole community, we had this organisation in all those areas, Apel and Rangkwana, we had organisations and we realised that in our community we didn't have those organisations, so our leaders towards what the other organisations in other communities were doing, so they wanted to do the same in our community in Sekukune just like in Rangkwene and in Apel So we wanted the same thing in our community so that when we have problems as youth, we can solve them together.

MR MALAN: I don't think I have any questions outstanding.  Dr Ally?

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Maboa, the other group who you say were AZAPO, were any of their members ever attacked?

MR MABOA: No they were never attacked.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I would like to ask you the last question.  If I understood you clearly, you thought the other group was AZAPO and you didn't know their aims.  Did I understand you clearly there?

MR MABOA: This group calls themselves AZAPO even now, they still call themselves AZAPO.

MR MALAN: Mr Maboa. thank you for coming to us.  It's a very complex background that we have to look into. We appreciate your story, we know that you have a difficult time and difficult circumstances but we are impressed by the way in which you are furthering yourself in your studies and so on and we wish you well.  Thank you for coming to us.

MR MABOA: Thank you.