Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-03

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He was the one who was always in constant contact with us, the Inkatha members, so that is why we thought he was the one who was in front.

CHAIRPERSON: By we, do you mean yourself, because you had been previously a member of the ANC?  Wasn't that the basis of your discussion and that is how you met?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I would like to explain before the Chairperson.  To be a member, I would say, I didn't even have a membership card, I just followed them as they were toyi-toying them knowing exactly what is happening, and where we were going.
	I only got deep into politics, after I acquired full membership of the IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: But previously you were a supporter of the ANC?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Chairperson, I would like a full explanation whether by saying I was a supporter or member, do you mean a person who is just a follower or someone who is registered, a registered member of a particular organisation?

CHAIRPERSON: Can I, I am going to curtail you because otherwise we will be here until the cows come back home.  Please just stick to what is being put to you, without giving elaborate and unnecessary answers.
	You have stated you were not a registered member of the ANC, you were merely a follower, that makes you merely a supporter.  I am sure you know that, you are from the location, you have been involved with the IFP.  That must be something that is within your knowledge.  Let us not play games.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: It is now that I understand it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please try and understand because we do not have time to waste.  Now you previously were a supporter of the ANC?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you know that David Nkosi, during the time that you were a supporter of the ANC, was the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I didn't know that.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you not know that?  You followed them around and did whatever they did?  Under what were you doing that if you didn't know who was the Chair of the ANC Youth League?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I was never told that there was a Chairperson by the name of David Nkosi, and I never knew that.

CHAIRPERSON: During the time that you were merely supporting, who did you think was the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Chairperson, I only knew that Mr Mashinini is an ANC leader, nothing else.  That there was any Youth League Chairperson, I didn't know that.

CHAIRPERSON: If that is so, how did you then become aware that Mr Phumayo is the Chairperson of the Youth League?  You don't know all along during the time you are a supporter of an organisation, and you are no longer a supporter of an organisation, you suddenly know that somebody is called Chairperson of a Youth League?
	Did you know that a Youth League existed within the ANC when you were a supporter thereof?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I knew, I heard that there was a Youth League, but I couldn't differentiate what it was, I just regarded myself as an ANC supporter.

CHAIRPERSON: You are unable to deny that David Nkosi was the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League in 1993?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I don't know that David Nkosi was the Chairperson.  That is the truth.

CHAIRPERSON: You are unable to deny that?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I can't.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Claassen, have we covered every ground in respect to that piece of evidence that was not initially put to your client, when it should have been put to him by Ms Thabete?

MR CLAASSEN: I believe so Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, I believe so as well.  Ms Thabete, do you have any re-examination to do on Mr Phumayo?

MS THABETE: Just one aspect Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Emanating from the cross-examination of Mr Claassen only?

MS THABETE: Yes.  When you say that, Mr Phumayo, when you say that the deceased was toyi-toying at some period, what period are you talking about?

CHAIRPERSON: Can I refresh your memory, he has stated that that means during his duration as a member of the ANC, at various times.

MS THABETE: I wanted to clarify that exactly.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think it has been clarified.  You may proceed to respond.

TREVOR PHUMAYO: I can say, as I have already explicated that he also took part in toyi-toying when we were having meetings in the hall, I mean chanting and all that, even during 1993, yes, he did take part during that year, yes.

MS THABETE: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Phumayo, you may return to your seat, thank you for the evidence that you have given before us.

TREVOR PHUMAYO: Thank you very much Madam Chair, we very much appreciate your work, we hope that it will indeed achieve the aims of the Act.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: We value your support, thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Claassen, are you in a position to address us?

MR CLAASSEN: Madam Chair, I think it is true that this application took most of the day.  If I could be afforded just an opportunity to recap on some of the things, some of the notes I have made, Madam Chair, I am not sure, I notice that it is already twenty past four, if it would in any way be possible, I don't know if the Committee would afford me just a few minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we would prefer to afford you a few minutes, if you can give an indication of how few those minutes will be, we would like to conclude argument in this matter.
	We already are running far behind with our schedule, we were supposed to have concluded another matter by the end of the day, so we would really urge you that you take as few minutes as reasonably can be, so that we can conclude your argument today.

MR CLAASSEN: I would appreciate it Madam Chair, ten minutes would be more than sufficient.

CHAIRPERSON: We do not want to get the wroth of the Department of Correctional Services, we from the bench feel that there is really no need for Mr Mtambo to be present while you do your address.
	He can go back to prison, unless you feel otherwise and you are free to address us on any issue that would make us change our attitude towards him going back to prison, whilst you proceed with your address.

MR CLAASSEN: Madam Chair, I fully understand the position of Correctional Services, and I believe, I can convey the, I will be in contact with my client in due course, so I can't see any necessity of him having to be here.

CHAIRPERSON: And if you can just explain to Mr Mtambo, that this is part of the process that you have to go through, to enable us to come to a just and equitable decision in respect of his application, and that as soon as we have done so, which hopefully should not be later than tomorrow, you will then immediately convey the decision of this Committee to him without delay.
	Our office also has an obligation to communicate our decision to Mr Mtambo without delay, but I am sure he would appreciate you undertaking to do so as well.

MR CLAASSEN: I would do so Madam Chair, if I could just be afforded a second.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for about how many minutes?

MR CLAASSEN: Ten minutes Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for ten minutes, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS