Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Once again I say that the reason why I am approaching the Amnesty Committee, the Commission, the family or anybody else, if they could attach any other interpretation to this situation of Kriel and I see myself as the person responsible for his death and that is something with which I have to live with and I hope the family can forgive me for that.

JUDGE WILSON: That letter you have written, who was it addressed to?

MR PAPIER: To the Commission, Honourable Judge.  It is a letter that is addressed by Captain Benzien's legal representative, the Honourable Advocate, addressed to the Amnesty Committee.

JUDGE WILSON: To the Amnesty Committee, because we haven't had it put before us?

CHAIRPERSON: What is the date of that letter?

MR PAPIER: The 5th of June, 1997.

CHAIRPERSON: Any way, have you any other questions?

MR PAPIER: Just one ending statement Honourable Chairman.  Captain Benzien, I am putting it to you that this application and your version put before the Committee, does not form part of this amnesty application.  I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that correctly translated from Afrikaans into English?

MR PAPIER: I didn't hear the translation, Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: I understood the interpreter to say that you are putting to him that his version did not form part of the amnesty application?

MR PAPIER: No, no.  May I repeat that in English?

CHAIRPERSON: yes.

MR PAPIER: I put it to you that your version of events does not seem to disclose an act with a political motive and in the view of the family for which you are entitled to receive amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand.

MR PAPIER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: That is a legal submission.

MR PAPIER: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR PAPIER: .

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions to put to this applicant?

MS INTHANGA: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Please do so.

MS INTHANGA: Mr Benzien, would you be able to tell us as to whether throughout the struggle, did you at any time enter the house or did it take place outside the house?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Excuse me, could you just repeat?  Enter...?

MS INTHANGA: I want you to explain to the Committee as to whether throughout the struggle that you had with Mr Kriel, did this take place outside or inside the house, where exactly did this take place?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: In the proximity of the - the whole incident took place in the proximity of the back door and at the furthest just through the threshold, Sir.

MS INTHANGA: When the family visited the house on the following day, blood was found in the kitchen, on the kitchen walls and in the bathroom.  Could you explain how this could have occurred?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I have no idea where this alleged blood was found, if any was found, Sir.  If I may, but it would be a speculation.
	Maybe the defence would know better, wasn't that house still under police guard for a number of days after the time for investigation purposes?  It is speculation Mr Chairman.  Maybe the parents of family could say if they had been in that house within a day of the incident.
	I am not sure.

MS INTHANGA: Understanding from your evidence that you have given before the Committee, you never intentionally killed Mr Kriel, is that so Mr Benzien?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is absolutely correct, Mr Chairman.

MS INTHANGA: Would you then say, you at the time, or after the incident, you regretted the death of Mr Kriel?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I have regretted the death of Mr Kriel from that day until now.

MS INTHANGA: There is also evidence that a poster with Mr Kriel's picture was hung in your office with a cross marked on his face and the words "one down to go".  Do you recall that poster Mr Benzien?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is correct Your Worship.

MS INTHANGA: Do you remember when did you ever use that poster or did you refer that poster to any of the people you interrogated?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I acquired that poster, somebody brought it to our office.  During the period running up to the funeral of the deceased, those posters were displayed on the poles.
	I had a reputation to live up to when interrogating the terrorists, freedom fighters.  I admit that it was surely in very bad taste to have it up there, but in a certain sense it also helped with my interrogation to instill fear into the persons who I interrogated.

MS INTHANGA: Okay.  How can you reconcile the use of that poster with the fact that you say here today, you regretted the death of Mr Kriel?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: For the death, excuse me, of any human being and in this case, Mr Kriel, that is something to be regretted.
	The poster as I say was in bad taste.  When I think about it, it should not have been there and to do that, I did not portray the professionalism that I should have had as a policeman.

MS INTHANGA: Mr Benzien, what is this reputation that you had to live up to?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Excuse me Ma'am?

MS INTHANGA: What is the reputation that you had to live up to?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: As a member of the Anti-terrorist Unit, employed in many interrogations, the - I tried to portray as a hard, callous person.

MS INTHANGA: Okay.  During your introduction speech, you mentioned to the families that they must understand that during the incident of the struggle you had with Mr Kriel and when Mr Kriel got shot, that the tables could have been turned on that day.  What did you mean by that?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: In a nutshell, the result could have been very much different and I could have been the person, or Mr Abels, could have been the persons that were killed.

ADV DE JAGER: At that stage, do you know what the policy of the ANC was towards policemen?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: All policemen were legitimate targets Sir.

MS INTHANGA: In that statement would you agree with me that the shooting or the killing of Mr Kriel in that incident, prevented your deaths or any injury to you and Mr Abels?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Yes, I concede that.

MS INTHANGA: Okay.  You mentioned that you worked with six other members on the investigation of Mr Kriel.  Were there any other police on that day during the time you entered Mr Kriel's house, were there any other police around the area or in the vicinity of his house?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: As I understand it, they were in the proximity of the scene, but not in the immediate proximity.

MS INTHANGA: That would be besides the six people you mentioned here?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: No, I am referring to those, the rest of the team.

MS INTHANGA: Oh, okay.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  No further questions.

MS INTHANGA: .

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

UNKNOWN: No re-examination Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: .

MS INTHANGA: Excuse me Mr Chairman, the victims of torture by Mr Benzien would like to put some questions to Mr Benzien, if they can be allowed by the Committee?

CHAIRPERSON: Who would like to do that?

MS INTHANGA: The six victims, they have attended the hearing and they would like to put questions.  Victims who were tortured by Mr Benzien.

CHAIRPERSON: Would they like ...

MS INTHANGA: To put questions to Mr Benzien.

CHAIRPERSON: Would they like to do that through you or would they like to do it themselves?

MS INTHANGA: They would like to do that themselves.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do they have a spokesman, is there somebody here who speaks on behalf of the victims?

MS INTHANGA: They will speak themselves individually.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Let them come forward one by one and put their questions to Mr Benzien.  What is your full name?

MR YENGENI: My full names are Tony Sitembiso Yengeni.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Yengeni, you may put your questions.

MR YENGENI: The first question I want to pose to you Mr Benzien, is can you tell the Commission the circumstances surrounding my arrest and subsequent transportation to Culemborg?