Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

LEON A MAREE: Yes, after I spoke to Mr Verster and he explained to me what this entailed, I considered it and I think two days later I came back to Mr Burger and told him that I accepted.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You then resigned from the South African Police Service?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Just in short, the initial description of the unit, the Special Forces Unit of the Defence Force, what did this entail?

LEON A MAREE: What they told me was that it was a covert arm of Special Forces and at that stage I did not have a lot of knowledge concerning Special Forces, so I accepted, as they explained it, covert in the line of the Security Branch of the Police.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, there seems to be a problem with Mr Kahanovitz, I don't know whether it's about...

MR KAHANOVITZ: It's just to do with the quality of the sound in Afrikaans and it seems to have to do with the position of the microphones and also the speed at which they're speaking.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Very well, you are now talking about the covert operations.  So you were under the impression, or you were brought under the impression from the start, that you will not run around in Angola in uniform.  What was your impression then?  Where will you be stationed and what would the circumstances be under which you would work?

LEON A MAREE: Initially they told us, because there was a contract or an agreement between the South African Police and the South African Defence Force, there will be a cooling off period of 6 months, thereafter we will get an office in Johannesburg and that did occur.

MR P DU PLESSIS: In other words you'll be stationed in Johannesburg?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And on that basis you then accepted it?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: At that stage of your recruitment, was there any discussion or talk that you would have to act in any illegal way and that would fall in the parameters of your services as the Special Forces of the Defence Force?

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You then mentioned that they told you that there would be a cooling off period of six months.  But just before we get to that, did you receive an official service contract?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I signed it and handed it over to Mr Verster.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now what was your impression?  For what institute or organisation were you working for?

LEON A MAREE: For the Defence Force.

MR P DU PLESSIS: The name CCB, was that known to you, that it would be a branch of the Defence Force?

LEON A MAREE: No, not with the first meeting.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But when you joined?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So when you signed the contract, the name was then made known to you?

LEON A MAREE: This contract I think was, if I can recall correctly, with the organisation and it said CCB, but the word used was organisations.

MR P DU PLESSIS: It has been put to you before that the CCB stood separate from the Defence Force in the sense that the activities of the CCB could not lead back to the Defence Force, do you understand what I mean?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: This is also how you were informed?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, that's how I understood it.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But did you understand that you will not be in the service of the Defence Force then?

LEON A MAREE: No, that it would be a covert organisation.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And your Commander of this specific unit?

LEON A MAREE: Gen Joubert.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Gen Joubert, did you meet him?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I did meet him.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So in other words, it was a General that was in full-time employment of the Defence Force?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So you had no doubt that you were working for a State Organisation and for the Security Forces at that stage?

LEON A MAREE: No, I had no illusion that I worked for the Defence Force, that is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that's also where you money came from, the salaries and the funding for certain projects?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: During this cooling-off period, we've also heard other evidence and I do not think it is disputed that there was no activation and you did not really serve in the traditional sense of the word, during that period of 6 months, up until December 1988?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But you did have contact with the organisation, is that correct?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: By means of whom?

LEON A MAREE: It was Wouter Basson.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Who was know to you as Christo Brits.  Was he ...?

LEON A MAREE: He was the co-ordinator of Region 6.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And this contact during that 6 month period, where did this happen, or how did it happen?

LEON A MAREE: It was mostly meetings at different hotels in hotel rooms.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What was discussed?

LEON A MAREE: In short, it was at the start of it, we tried to sort out the documentation.  We had no documentation so we tried to find all of that out.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What your service would entail?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, that is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Then it's also common cause that you were later activated in January 1989.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that indeed the course was presented and that you went through this course and amongst others, Joe Verster, Wouter Basson and others addressed you?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Am I also correct that it was also the Commanding General, who was Joubert at that stage?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now without dealing with this extensively, what did this course entail?

LEON A MAREE: There were different phases.  Once again the military style of administration.  Because we were Special Forces we did things differently.  We did the writing of documents, the purpose of the organisation was explained to us.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Being?

LEON A MAREE: Being the disruption of the enemy of the country.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Was the enemy explained to you or spelled out?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, at that stage, I think it was common knowledge that it was the ANC, the PAC or the so-called freedom fighters, which we called the terrorists and today are called the freedom fighters.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Well, what was put to you in broad terms concerning your functions?

LEON A MAREE: What was put to us, in broader terms was that the day of conventional warfare in South Africa is over, the enemy is now in the country and that we are a similar organisation and we will fight fire with fire and we will adapt our methods to theirs.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What did this entail?

LEON A MAREE: It was the elimination of people, the burning of houses or any disruption to ...

MR P DU PLESSIS: Disruption actions?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Would this include fund organisations of the ANC, to act against the ANC?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: At that stage you just left the South African Police, what was your perception concerning those circumstances in the country?

LEON A MAREE: Well from the police's side I was aware of it.  I was aware that there were bombs in the country, that bombs were planted against the State, friends of mine, policemen who were blown up, cars that were blown up, so I was aware that the war was in the country, I was aware of this.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And did you sympathise with the tasks of the South African Defence Force?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, I did, I was part of them.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well, we will at a later stage deal with that area, but was it explained to you how these covert operations would work?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, in broader terms they explained to us that the blue plan and a red plan ...

MR P DU PLESSIS: That would be then the cover, to give you access?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.