Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Will you please get up.  We will start with Lizeka.

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Now, Nolifisi Evelyn Molose.

NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Thank you Chairperson.  We are going to start with Ms Lizeka Rosy Ndoni.  I am going to lead her and then Nolifisi Evelyn Molose will be led by Ms Maya.
 Ms Ndoni, I notice that your evidence is on behalf of Buyisile Ndoni.  How are you related to him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: He is my child.

REV XUNDU: How old was he at the time of the incident?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: I have forgotten.

REV XUNDU: According to your statement he was 15 years of age.  You say this happened in 1985?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, sir.

REV XUNDU: You said that he died in jail under circumstances that are not clear?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: That is so.

REV XUNDU: Could you tell us more about Buyisile Ndoni before he passed away in prison?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: He was a student, we were all together at home and police came.  We were drinking tea and they just arrested
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him.

REV XUNDU: Before he was arrested, was he a member of the ANC?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, he was.

REV XUNDU: Are there other things that he participated in at school?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Well, I would not know.

REV XUNDU: Was he politically orientated?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, he was.

REV XUNDU: So you say that police came at home and he was arrested?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes?

REV XUNDU: What kind of police?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: I don't know.

REV XUNDU: Who was at home when the police arrived?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: It was us and the children.

REV XUNDU: What do you mean us, do you mean you and the father?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, the father was not there, he was at work.

REV XUNDU: So it was you and the children?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, it was.

REV XUNDU: What reasons did they give for arresting him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: They did not give any reasons.

REV XUNDU: Did they say where they were taking him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, they did not.

REV XUNDU: So then he was arrested?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Did you take any steps at home as parents whose children had been arrested?  So your child was arrested by the police, so what happened then?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: We were all at home.  I just started crying, I
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didn't say anything, I didn't do anything.  He was then sentenced.  There was a court case before that.
 After he was sentenced he was imprisoned at St Albans.  On a Thursday at about nine o'clock in the morning I saw a police van.   They asked if Buyisile Ndoni is my child, I said yes.  They said that they have then come to inform me that he had passed away.  That was the last I heard until I woke up at a Doctor's surgery.

REV XUNDU: When Buyisile was imprisoned, accused and sentenced for public violence, were there others who were accused with him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, there were a lot.

REV XUNDU: There are two names that you have mentioned in your statement.  Do you remember who they are?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, I do.

REV XUNDU: Can you tell us please?  You said it was Mzwabantu Molose and Gerald Ndinge, where are they now?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Mzwabantu has passed away.

REV XUNDU: Did he also die in prison?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, he did.

REV XUNDU: So Constable Koos came to inform you that your son had been stabbed in jail?  Did you know Constable Koos previously?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, we know him.  He is a policeman from Pearston.

REV XUNDU: What reasons did he give for your son having been stabbed?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: He didn't give any reasons.

REV XUNDU: Did he say who stabbed him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No.  He just gave me that message and he left.  I then fainted and I was taken to a Doctor.
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REV XUNDU: Did he tell you how much time had elapsed between the time your son was stabbed and the time he gave you the report?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: I did not ask him, because I could not say a word.

REV XUNDU: Who is Zimasile Gooi?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: It was the witness.

REV XUNDU: In which way?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Zimasile was also in jail with him.  Zimasile apparently said that if anything happens to my son, then the police would have to repay.

REV XUNDU: Therefor they were all together in jail?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, they were.

REV XUNDU: So what did Zimasile say, what report does he give.  What happened in jail?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: When my son died, Zimasile was no longer in the same jail.  They wanted to separate the two.   They wanted Buyisile to be in solitary confinement.
 They wanted to take my son and put him amongst criminals who had been in jail for quite a while.

REV XUNDU: Is Zimasile here today?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, he is in Cape Town, he works there.

REV XUNDU: Was there a post-mortem after your son passed away?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, there was no post-mortem.

REV XUNDU: Was anybody accused for his death?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No.

REV XUNDU: So to this day you do not know who stabbed your son in jail or what happened?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, I don't know to this day.

REV XUNDU: Before Buyisile was jailed, did he gave problems with the police, were they after him?
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LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, there were no such problems.

REV XUNDU: As someone who was a member of banned organisations, was he not under police surveillance?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: He was.

REV XUNDU: Were there specific incidents that made it clear that the police were looking for him or wanting him in any way?  Do you reconcile the two incidents within you, or do you perhaps think it is the police that stabbed him?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Well, I can't say whether it is the police or the convicts that stabbed him.

REV XUNDU: Did you get a Death Certificate?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, I did not get one.  The people who went to fetch the corpse, must have received the Death Certificate, but I don't know what they did with it.

REV XUNDU: Did anyone who received the Certificate ever tell you what was written on the Death Certificate?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: They said that they didn't see anything.

REV XUNDU: Where was he buried?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: He was buried in Pearston.

REV XUNDU: Was it a peaceful funeral?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, it was a peaceful funeral.

REV XUNDU: Did the police limit you in any way?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, they just said that we must bury him on a Friday and we must not go to work on Saturday.
 So we buried him on the Friday in stead of the Saturday.

REV XUNDU: Which day would you have chosen?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: We would have chosen the Saturday.

REV XUNDU: Is that not a limitation that you wanted to bury your son on Saturday in stead of Friday?  Are there any orders that you were given by the police?
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LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No.

REV XUNDU: Did they stipulate the number of people that should attend the funeral?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No.

REV XUNDU: Did they stipulate and delegate who should speak at the funeral?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: No, they didn't.

REV XUNDU: Who spoke at the funeral?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Are you asking about members of the organisation?  There were no members of the organisation that spoke.

REV XUNDU: Who spoke at the funeral?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: There were no speakers from the organisation, no there were none.

REV XUNDU: Were there people who wanted to talk from the organisation?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Yes, there were but they were unable to get there.

REV XUNDU: Therefor you say there were members of the organisation who wanted to come and talk, but they did not get there.  Where were they from?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: They were from Port Elizabeth.

REV XUNDU: Which organisation?

LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: Their organisation.

REV XUNDU: Is this the ANC?