Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-21

MR PRIOR: The death of your father and who may have been responsible, or anything around that.  Anything additional to what you've told us.

MS A TSEMANE: I don't think there is anything that I can say because I have already asked the applicants how he feel about my father's death.

MR PRIOR: ...(inaudible) at this time.

MS A TSEMANE: It seems like there is nothing I want to add.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I think I would like to explore something before she's cross-examined.  I think it would be unfair to leave it last, because I understood that when she was asking questions she named certain persons and she also put it to the applicants that they were being used in some way.  Shouldn't that be investigated at this stage, Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I'm indebted to the Committee.  You indicated who Mr Makoala, the name of the person who owned the house at which they were house.  I think it was Mr Pitso?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: You also indicated that, in your view, as you put it,

MS A TSEMANE: Repeat your question, Sir, I'm sorry.

MR PRIOR: But also Mr Mbele-Mbele?

MS A TSEMANE: I know Mr Mbele-Mbele.

MR PRIOR: ...(inaudible) Committee can guide me.

CHAIRPERSON: Developed now, and I think it's something that has to be investigated.  I think they should be notified that their names have been raised if they wish to come and make any further representations.  But I don't see how one can, if one is going to properly investigate what this witness appears to be raising, unless you suggest the whole matter be adjourned at this stage pending notice.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I'm just alive to the decisions that have been handed down and the developments in the past, where, where people's identities have been revealed in the Committees also unexpectedly and where evidence has been led, or information has been given which is prejudicial to those people.  I believe the, I believe they ought to be covered by Section 19 of the Act.  That's why I'm loathed to possibly at this stage without any notice to them, to go to, I don't know what this witness is going to say.  Maybe I should ask for a short adjournment that I may precognise her on this aspect.

CHAIRPERSON: And Mr Mbele-Mbele was mentioned in the papers that were put before us.

MR PRIOR: But he hadn't been given notice as a ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, but he has already been mentioned in the statements.  We'll take a short adjournment for you to precognise the witness properly.
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, I have had an opportunity of considering the matter, also of talking to the other persons representing the applicants.  And it seems that if we proceed with this, other names may be mentioned of people who have had, not had notice, and I think it would be grossly unfair to them to proceed with it.  Particularly when there hasn't been a full investigation and we don't know whether the, if any allegations are made, whether they can be justified.  What I propose and the members of the Committee agree with me, is that we adjourn this matter temporarily to Tuesday for you to ascertain whether the matter is worth investigating fully, if so, how long it will take and matters of that nature, and we can decide on a final date next Tuesday.  Do you have anything to say in that regard?

MR PRIOR: Yes, Mr Chairman, those were my fears at that stage, that's why I raised the matter.  I'm in agreement with the Committee and I think that should be followed, that route.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, in the light of the fact that evidence is now being led, it was foreshadowed by the cross-examinations that other parties might be involved, and I stress the word "might", there is at present time no evidence before us showing
that any other party has committed any wrongful act, but it is a matter that clearly should be investigated and if necessary, proper notice given to the parties mentioned, which will necessitate as we all know, a further adjournment of the matter.  So rather than cause more difficulties at the present time, we will adjourn till next Tuesday for preliminary enquiries to be made and to ascertain how long it shall take to investigate the matter fully and when we can conclude the hearing.  Mr Mbandazayo, do you have anything to say?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Mr Chairman, I, nothing.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: Nothing Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You, nothing further.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, there is just one aspect that bothers me, or concerns me, is the fact that two names have been given up in evidence and I would ask the Committee to give a ruling whether the media, what weight they attack to that, because already I think the fact of the adjournment may alert the media to, to whatever ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think the names that have been mentioned, have only been the names of ...(inaudible).  We have not got to the stage of any evidence on other aspects, which is why we're adjourning.  We're not adjourning because they stayed at point A or point B.  In fact, you will recollect the applicant this morning said they stayed by Mr Mbele-Mbele for three days.

MR PRIOR: Yes, at some other place.  I would ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: And ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: My fear is that ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: He had no recollection of this other gentleman.

MR PRIOR: My fear is simply that wrong influences be drawn by the media.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I don't think there is any suggestion, Mr Prior, that those names have anything to do with what we are now going to investigate.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: So, we're now going to adjourn this matter till next Tuesday, that is the 28th of April at 09h00, or would you like it, 09h00 all right for you gentlemen?

MR MBANDAZAYO: 09h00 would be suitable, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, 09h00 on Tuesday the 28th.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, there's no further business today, we'll start with the new matter tomorrow.

CHAIRPERSON: At 09h00?  Right, we will adjourn till 09h00 tomorrow morning.

MR PRIOR: 09h00.  Please all rise.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS