Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-10

CASE NO: CT/00645

DR BORAINE: [indistinct] very pleased to see you here today and to welcome you on behalf of the Commission.  You have waited since early this morning and we thank you for your patience and we hope that you feel now having listened to some of the others that we don't bite - that we actually care about who you are and  your story.
 And we also know that it's not easy for you to think back and to remember the pain and the horror of your own experience.  But we hope that you will feel very free to share your story with us.  Before I ask my colleague Denzil Potgieter to lead  you as you tell your stories, would you please stand for the taking of the oath.
SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much please be seated and Mr Potgieter will now take over.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Dr Boraine.  Good afternoon Ms Moleleki and Ms Koopman - we'll deal with your evidence first Ms Moleleki and then when you finished take the evidence of Ms Koopman.
 Now your evidence Ms Moleleki concerns a shooting incident where you were shot is that correct?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: XHOSA -

ADV POTGIETER: Just before we come to actual incident, perhaps you can just tell us briefly who you are and where you come from - where do you live?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: XHOSA -

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you - the incident that you will talk about happened in Ditloung where you live is that so?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: XHOSA -

ADV POTGIETER: Could you tell the panel what actually happened on the day that the shooting happened.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: He said that there were no riots, they were just toyi-toying. It was not all the people from the township, it was only a small group because we are two groups in the township. It was only kids. Then the police came, then Flemming shot me. I was actually shot by Flemming, my son said. Then my husband ask him (Flemming) and  said to my husband that "You must say thanks, because he is not dead. I am very fortunate that I am dead". He was a sergeant at our place that time, but now he is an adjudant. The adjudant was Jenkins, who left just after the riots with Dr Meyer.

ADV POTGIETER: This policeman Flemming that you speaking about - you say that when the incident happened was adjudant Jenning or Jenkins, is Flemming now [intervention]

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: It was Adjudant Jenkins, Flemming was a sergeant.

ADV POTGIETER: Ja, is Flemming now [intervention]

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: Flemming is now the adjudant.

ADV POTGIETER: Is Flemming today the adjudant he is now in charge of the police.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: Yes, he is the adjudant.

ADV POTGIETER: And you sure that he is - you know him well.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: I am talking the truth, I know him very well.

ADV POTGIETER: I just want to mention it to you for your comment - because I am suppose to do that, we got a note from Flemming he seems to be a Captain now, Captain HSP Flemming from Olifantshoek, first of all saying that he denies what you say - in other words that he shot you and secondly saying that on the 16th of May 1993 he was on sick leave and he was not on duty at all.  I've got to put that to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

ADV POTGIETER: I've got to put that to you for your comment, would you like to comment on that?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: I have got faith in what I am saying,  I was shot by Flemming on the 16th June during the stayaway. It was Flemming himself, even my husband can say or even Mothelesi. He said that I stone two police van which were very far from me. They were standing in the veld. He is just denying, I am saying he is the one who shot me. My only witness is no more alive, he is dead; Breken Mocumumpi, who was also shot during the riots.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you for you comment Ms Moleleki - just one other thing around that incident  was Flemming before he shot you was he telling you to throw him -  gooi my was that what he was saying?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: He said that I must shot. He was standing right in the middle of the road holding a gun. He said`` Throw, I will shoot"!

ADV POTGIETER: But did you have any intention of throwing anything?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: How can I throw anything at him because my hand was broken. How can I throw at him because he was taking us out of the road.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: We should get out of the street, we are not suppose to toyi-toyi in the street.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Ms Moleleki just in conclusion - what is there that the Commission can do for you - what do you want us to do about your case?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: I  can no longer work because of the injuries I sustained and I have got problems with my upper body, my chest. If the commission can help me. I will be very glad.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you - any further questions - Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: I want to ask you a question about Dr Cronje - his name is being mentioned several times as someone who helped people who were shot or who were injured.  Is he still - do you know him now - where is he today?

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: I know him that he is a private Doctor in Kathu.

DR BORAINE: He is still there today - thank you very much.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI: He is still there.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, mum.

STATEMENT FROM COMPLAINANT: On 16 June 1993 at 10h00 we were zabalaza, toi-toiing, a group of people from Ditloung.  The police arrived and told us to stop, it is illegal.  They got out of two bakkies and we ran away.  I went into the yard of Katrina Seekoei's house.  Constable Flemming came to me and said ja gooi - gooi and pointed his rifle at me.  My arm was in cast and I was holding it up so he must have thought I was going to throw something at him.  Gooi, dan skiet ek, he said and shot me with bird shot.  One  of it is still in my right elbow, I then ran away.
 My husband went to ask why they shot me.  They, the police said it was because I stormed their bakkie with stones.  Flemming also said sy moet bly wees sy is nie vrek nie.  They left and came back later that day.
 Mothelesi took me to the doctors in Postmasburg and Olifantshoek but both refused to treat me.  We then went to Dr Cronje in Kathu who helped me.
 A week later Mothelesi took us to a doctor in Galeshewe, I cannot remember who.  He filled out forms and we had to take it to the Olifantshoek police station.  Nothing ever came of it.