Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-17

CHAIRPERSON: There are times when one wouldn't know what to say, especially to people who have suffered such great ordeals.  It is clear to everyone that you have worked so hard, but all that took just a minute to get destructed.  We do trust and hope that we will get to the time in the future where things will work out better than in the past.  I see you are a woman of faith, and I have listened to you.  Often times than not you keep mentioning God.  That tells me a lot about your faith, and it goes without doubt that you are a woman of faith.  Do you suffer emotionally due to this?

WITNESS:   Yes, but God helped me.  I suffered from high blood pressure.  I was admitted at Newcastle.  I also had sinusitis problem and I was drained in 1994 November, and again in 1995 November I was drained for sinusitis problem.  I had tremendous stress due to the fact that I had lost all my possessions - cars, you name it.  I have worked so hard as a nurse in 19 - I quite my job in 1969, and I was still young then, single still.  I acquired all of this not easy.  I passed my BA and UEd degrees and tried the businesses, and I was a successful entrepreneur up until the time when all this transpired, and as a result of that I am suffering.

CHAIRPERSON: But have you gotten in touch with the psychologists?

WITNESS:   I did psychiatry myself at school.  You know, I think there are times when I just helped myself and decided no, I think I am insane now, and I have to help myself since I did psychiatry at school as well.

CHAIRPERSON: You know in Zulu we have this thing that - the saying that the doctor cannot heal himself.  Perhaps it will be wise and advisable for you to get in touch with the psychologists.  We even hope that the boys that are not at school right now will one day reach their goals and go as far as you have gone academically.

WITNESS:   I was hurt and I accused the boers so much that today I forgive them, because I was also forgiven.  I lost so much due to the treatment of the boers.  I am looking at the Government today.  When we were at Dundee all the boys who were running from ANC from different areas will come to my husband, and each time I think of telling them to go back to their houses I will think of their mothers, parents, what will they say?  Now we would try our best to accommodate them.  Some will be hurt brutally by Inkatha.  We would try to accommodate and give them warmth.  I went through ANC to enlist help, but I got nothing.  I don't even know whether he is better than de Klerk.  I mean Mandela.  But what I will say is that as a Christian I do trust and hope that you know that some other things take time.  God takes His own time, and the fact that people don't think the same, and also don't forget that the pressures you suffer are the pressures other people suffer as well.

CHAIRPERSON: It's a good thing that you are such a forgiving lady, and in whatever that we do we shall consider forgiving, even forgiving our very black people, fellow blacks, not only the boers.  We are trying to reconcile the country.  Please be patient, and perseverance pays as well, because one day you will knock at the door and the door will be opened.

WITNESS:   Chairlady, I am forever in the run, running from the sheriff.  Can ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 6)

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Makemiso?

MRS MOLEFE: I am Makemiso.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you the one who is going to testify here today?

MRS MOLEFE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is the lady accompanying you?

MRS MOLEFE: She is my daughter-in-law.  I brought her here so that she can remind me as well, because I am old and other things have happened a long time ago and I can't remember everything.  Like, for instance, I am having a problem remembering dates, months.

CHAIRPERSON: It's okay if she is just going to remind you.  I would like you to stand up so that you take an oath.  We would like to know the name of the lady next to you, or rather your daughter-in-law.

MR DLAMINI: What is your name?

MRS MOLEFE: Lydia Molefe.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you the daughter-in-law to Mrs Molefe?  Because now you are going to assist Mrs Molefe we would request you to stand up and take an oath.

MAKEMISO MOLEFE AND LYDIA MOLEFE: (Sworn, State)

CHAIRPERSON: The person who will lead you whilst giving evidence will be Mr Mdu Dlamini.

WITNESS:   We greet you, Mr Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... share with us today two tragic incidents.  One relates to your son who was killed in Johannesburg in 1993.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DLAMINI: As if that was not enough the other one relates to your husband, who was also killed in 1994.

WITNESS:   That is correct. (Inaudible) ... by confirming the family details as I have them on my record.  You have told us that you have got three children - Richard, you son, who is 24 years of age.   ---   That is correct.

MR DLAMINI: What does Richard do?

WITNESS:   He is at school.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... doing?

WITNESS:   He is in standard six.

MR DLAMINI: The next one is Wilbur, who is 16 years of age.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  He is still at school.  He is currently doing standard five.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... your daughter, Suzetta, who is 13 years of age.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  She is in standard six.

MR DLAMINI: And the deceased, did he have his - I mean your son who died, did he have family of his own?

WITNESS:   He didn't have a family of his own.  He was not yet married then.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... not have children outside marriage?

WITNESS:   He didn't have children.  He does not have children.  He was a worker then.  He worked at Germiston.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... because I would prefer that I lead you by questions, especially in his case, because there is crucial information that we need.  Before his death was he a member of any organisation?

WITNESS:   He was in Germiston.  He boarded a train, then ... (intervention)

MR DLAMINI: Mama, I know you would like to tell us that story, but it's important that I get this information correct.  Was he a member of any organisation?

WITNESS:   He was not a member of any organisation, or political organisation.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... political organisation?

WITNESS:   He was an ANC member. Are you sure that he was an ANC member?   ---   Yes, because his father was also an ANC member.

MR DLAMINI: And he died - he was killed in Johannesburg.

WITNESS:  He was killed in Johannesburg at Thokoza location.  His corpse was found by Mr Nthanzi's chauffeur.  Mr Nthanzi's chauffeur reported that there's a child who died there in Thokoza.

MR DLAMINI: I missed the name of the person who found the corpse.

WITNESS:   He is from Gauteng, but his name is Nthanzi.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... your son was staying as a tenant.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's the person I am referring to.

MR DLAMINI: Do you have contact details of Mr Nthanzi?

WITNESS:   Are you referring to Mr Nthanzi?  He stays at Moutong section.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... or telephone?

WITNESS:   Are you referring to his address?

MR DLAMINI: Or the telephone number.

WITNESS:   Are you referring to the address at Moutong section?

INTERPRETER: If you could raise your voice please so that the interpreters could hear you.

WITNESS:   No 4587 Moutong Section.   It is in Katlehong Location.  1832, I think that is the code.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.  909-2290.

MR DLAMINI: I am surprised.  You said earlier on that you are a forgetful lady, but you can remember everything.  Did you get the death certificate in respect of Siphiwe, your son?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did receive the death certificate of my son -my husband.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... records.  If it is available you can just give it to us afterwards.

WITNESS:   I do have the certificate with me.