Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

WHITE MOHAPE: And then that was not enough, because, yes.  That was not enough still to say Ngo is an informer, you know, we could not be able still to convince students that, I mean, this man is an informer, but we had to follow him in various instances.  We, in actual fact, asked one student who was his own classmate and who he will normally leave his own books by that student's house and then we said to that student you check, because there was one thing funny that was also happening.  Ngo was one, you know, he was, in actual fact, the first student in Bloemfontein to carry, you know, this briefcases, the new, you know, the one that you see today with numbers, you know, and it was very funny, because at school at that time no student could afford to buy that briefcase, but, yes, Ngo had it and we to say, but maybe there is some information that can lead us to know exactly what are the activities of this chap.
	Now, towards the end of 1984 we went to a conference again to Durban and when we went there we deliberately decided that we are going to leave Ngo behind, because we could not trust him and then we went to Durban.  Upon our arrival in Durban, the conference was on, within a day Ngo was in Durban and there he came to join us and, well, when I was asked by then President of Cosas Lulu Johnson, because he is the one who met Ngo.  He asked me if I know this man. I said, no, I know him, he is our comrade and then he came and join us and then I went to show him to the rooms where he could sleep, but that was a question mark to say one, we  have decided to leave him behind and why does he come here, what is that that he is doing and during the conference he started to have funny attitudes, you know, amongst people, you know.  He would say this Xhosas, and mind you he is a Xhosa himself, but he will say Xhosas from Eastern Cape wants to bully him around and he can not take that nonsense, but I could ask myself why, you know, why this attitude, you know, and then beyond that we had to go from the conference when it is finished, go to Johannesburg and leave everybody.   	Now, in Cosas in that year there was introduction of a folder and that folder had a banner of Cosas on top and the same regulation when we left Durban, we have to leave everything behind.  I was responsible for everything, but at that time we, when we arrived in Johannesburg we told other students, because we took a bus of the Johannesburg students, delegates and we went to Johannesburg and they had to board a train the following day, and then in that they left with Ngo to Bloemfontein, but, surprisingly, when we, when I arrived in Bloemfontein after few days, because I had to consult with other national executive members, I was told that a student saw a folder at security branch offices. 
	Now, I quickly consulted with others who went to the conference and they said, no, when they arrived in Bloemfontein Ngo told them that they must get, they must give him his, you know, their folders so that because he came late into the conference, he will want to make up his own minutes and all that, because he must also (...indistinct) and they did that.  Those students at that time did not know that we are suspecting Ngo and then they gave him and then one student who was not part of the delegation was picked up by the security branch and then he saw the folder at Fountain and it was one of those things to say, yes, but it is clear that Ngo, really, is working for the security branch.
	The last one of the briefcase.  It is when after we have set up this student to, you know, check in his briefcase, because he had a tendency of leaving his briefcase by that student's house and then that student got a list of students, because what happened is the early January of 1985, we went around, recruited new students into Cosas and then when this student got the list, it was after a week we have recruited those students, and then in that list they were ticked up student by pen and then those who were ticked up by pencil, they had already been picked up by the security branch on Saturday and Sunday of the last weekend before we got the list and that in itself told us that there is no way that we can no longer say Ngo is not an informer, because the list that is hand written by himself, we students who are ticked and others who are still following it really shows that, honestly, this man is a security branch informer and we had to take that information and ensure that we expose him to students, but then we called several meetings that he did not come.  
	Then when he had a confrontation with the very same student who got the list from I then, I was in the classroom, I went out and then I said to them, no, no, there is no reason to fight, but Ngo, why you did not come in to meetings that we called you.  He said, no, he was busy.  I said, no, but you are lying, you know that we have got a list, your handwritten list of students who have been picked up by the security branch and it means you are an informer and he knew that we are going to expose you.  He said, no, we are lying and he said if then it is like that, he is going to wear the uniform of the security branch, he is going to join them, he is going to carry a gun and he was furious and then he left school.

MR STANDER: Did he return to school at one stage?

WHITE MOHAPE: That incident was on Monday.  On Tuesday he did not come to school, Wednesday he did not come, Thursday he did not come.  He came on Friday and when he came on Friday I was in the classroom.  One student, who is my classmate, he came to me and said, no, I am from the toilet and I saw Ngo in the toilet and he is having a gun, like he is concealing something like a gun, you know, and then I had to, you know, make one plus one and say, man, if this man comes into the classroom it means I am dead, because he has said that he is going to, you know, to wear the uniform and he will come back and here he comes and then I was, you know, confused, but I had to decide that I go out.  	When I went out of the classroom I, you know, I found two other students, the one who got the list who is his own classmate and the other one who is Billy Morgan.  They were also talking about the very same problem, seeing Ngo into the classroom with a gun and we had to organise ourselves and then finally we planned to disarm him and when we disarmed him, you know, it was because students did not know.  You know, I do not want to get into deeper details of how we did that, but students did not know, but, you know, it was a commotion and in that commotion I tried to grab the gun from Ngo and the other teacher was trying to pull me off.  Ultimately I ran with the gun.
	Ngo went to the Administration Block.  He hid himself there and some students followed him into the Administration Block and then we talked to some teachers and they said we must explain this to students and we called them into an assembly.  Whilst I was busy explaining this to students, Ngo, you know, moved out of, you know, the Administration Block and he went straight, because outside the school already there was a black Lauren that was waiting there of the security branch.  He went straight into it.  He jumped the fence and went straight into it.  That is how we exposed Ngo at that time as a security policeman informer.

MR STANDER: What happened after you exposed Ngo in this manner?