Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-09

MRS GCABASHE: Did you get a death certificate explaining the cause of his death?  What was on the death certificate, if you remember well?

WITNESS:   The certificate said he'd been shot.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Any more questions?  Mdu Dlamini?

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mrs Mbatha.  How many children does your daughter-in-law have?  How old are they?  Are they studying?

WITNESS:   The other one is doing standard 5 and the other one is doing standard 8.

MR DLAMINI: Where is your daughter-in-law working?

WITNESS:   She is teaching.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR DLAMINI: /CHAIRMAN

MR DLAMINI: 12B/16

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Dumisa Ntsebeza.

MR NTSEBEZA: I just want to be clarified here.  Do you know who shot your son and why was he shot?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know anything.

MR NTSEBEZA: Was he in any political organization?

WITNESS:   No.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Thank you, Mama.  Were any other people killed in the bus?

WITNESS:   (No audible reply)

DR BORAINE: How many were killed?

WITNESS:   I don't know how many there were.

DR BORAINE: You are right when you say this was a very famous case, because there was much publicity and there was a big court case and you were never called to that court case?

WITNESS:   No.

DR BORAINE: I think I should at least tell you because one of the tragedies that we have listened to over the last four weeks is that victims of killings, murders, assaults, deaths in detention are so seldom ever told what's happened and many don't or can't read newspapers and I want to tell you that the four men were arrested.  They were found guilty and are now in gaol.  You didn't know that?

WITNESS:   No.

DR BORAINE: Well, at least now you know something of what happened and perhaps one of our staff members can give you more details a little later on.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Richard Lyster?  Virginia Gcabashe?

MRS GCABASHE: My last question that I have, because we have heard that these people were arrested and convicted, they have asked for amnesty for what they have done and what is your wish?  What would you expect from the

MRS GCABASHE: /Commission

MRS GCABASHE: 12B/25 Commission - you and your daughter-in-law and the children?

WITNESS:   If they can just assist me educate these children.  That's my request.

MRS GCABASHE: We have heard your request, even though we may not promise you, we are listening.  Once we come together we are going to discuss among ourselves and we will see if there is anything that can be done to respond to people's requests.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama, we thank you very much for coming here.  As has already been said, we are going to try to help you, whichever way that will be accessible to us.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's take a tea break up till half past eleven.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
ON RESUMPTION

SIBONGISENI GOODLORD LINDA NZAMA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Please be seated and try and be as relaxed as possible under the circumstances.  It's not a dentist's chair, so you can relax.  That's better.  Dr Magwaza, a colleague, will now take over from me and she will help you to tell your own story.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: We greet you.  We also thank you that you are able to be here today.  Before we start ... [break in recording] ... situation, tell us about yourself and your family and your son.  Tell us who your family is, who is your son, how old is your son, everything about you and your family that could assist us to give a clearer picture of who you are.

WITNESS:   I will explain that here in Durban I grew up in Durban, but I was born in Potchefstroom in 1936.  From there I came here to stay with my father, who was working at King Edward.  At that time he was a clerk there.  I went to school here in Durban and my father took me to King Edward.  I also became a clerk in King Edward.  During that time I joined the ANC.  That was the most famous organization in King Edward at that time.  I worked there and in 1963 I was arrested.  We were arrested with regard to ANC, but I did get released by this lawyer called Austin.  After that I had left King Edward.  I went to do the taxi job.  I didn't like this taxi job and I went to the firms (?).  I educated my children and they went to Ongoye.  The elder daughter went to do a B Ed and the boy - the boy who was here, who was injured, was doing B Sc at that time.  When I was working in the factories there I was working at the national key point.  Those were  /the very

DR MAGWAZA: 12b/29 the very strategic areas the Government focused on.  Those were oil tanks.  When we wanted to have a union inside the factory, it was very difficult because the management didn't want the union.  They said if the union is involved these petrol tanks would be burnt out, so I organized, then pressurised that the union be allowed to exist.  I'm the one who organized the union.  So I started being hated by the owners of this firm, because I'm putting the union which is aligned to ANC and the tanks could be burnt.  At the time when I was working there used to be soldiers coming, patrolling there as a place that was a national key point.  These were two places.  One of them is in Fynnland.  There's a checkpoint.  If someone wanted to go you would have to pass through the Railway Police.  I got so pressurised and harassed and the soldiers used to come at this national key point and the Railway Police also used to follow me up.  I realised that I must leave this job, because I was in danger.  I left this job in 1990.  I went to stay at home.  While I was still staying at home - I think it was about two months - I asked the union that if they could assist me to work as a trade union organizer, because I realised that the soldiers and Railway Police were following me and I wanted the union to help me to be an organizer of the union.  While I was still at home ... (end of tape)

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/0 ... They broke down the front doors, dining room doors, and I saw two Hippos that were waiting on the gate and they hit me with guns and pushed me down and they were pointing guns at all my children.  My other son that I'm talking about, he came out from the bedroom.  He had just arrived the previous day from Ongoye.  They also pointed

DR MAGWAZA: /guns at