Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1997-06-23

GEORGE BIZOS: "Chris...." the last two lines.
"It was obvious to us that Chris Hani, as the leader of the Communist Party was the real threat to our future and that of the Republic of South Africa.  This view was shared by the Conservative Party and indeed by all conservative political parties and organisations.  He was seen as the successor to Mr Mandela and was also......"
and these are the new important words,
"... as the senior commander of MK, a prime military target".
Now that phrase, that phrase requires an investigation of what the position was at that time, at the time of the death, and what the general perception was, and this was introduced, to us at any rate, in the last two weeks.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: But does it really introduce a drastically new dimension in the application?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, with respect.  If a reason which is not based on fact is advanced then that may have important consequences on the proper outcome of the main application as to whether amnesty should be granted or not.  Now if we have to, and we will call evidence, that that he was considered a prime military target is false, and we can only do that by evidence, leading evidence.
	Firstly what were the facts, and secondly what were the perceptions because there apparently is a double level so-to-speak on which the matter may operate, because they may say well we thought that he was a prime military target, on what basis?

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Frankly I would have thought that you could verify or get some information around this position then within a question of a few hours.

GEORGE BIZOS: Then what about the perceptions?  They will say yes, you can bring the minutes of the organisation of the National Executive of the ANC and the South African Party that he resigned his position of MK some years back, they are going to say well but the perception was something different.  We are going to lead evidence, Judge, we are going to lead evidence here that Chris Hani was not a military target and that the reason why he was murdered was to prevent him from helping to bring democracy to South Africa.  That is the reason why he was killed, the correct reason.   (Clapping and cheering).

JUDGE WILSON: When did you receive this document on page 21 that you say was amended?

GEORGE BIZOS: It came together with Bundle B when we got it at the airport.

JUDGE WILSON: There is no mention of it in your affidavit is there?  And there is no mention of it in the applicants' heads of argument?

GEORGE BIZOS: I don't recall the applicants' heads of argument, but I certainly, if my memory serves me correctly, we make a point of it precisely on page 4, paragraph 12 of our affidavit.
"In particular we draw attention to the new allegation that appears in the amended application of Derby-Lewis in the same paragraph on page 21...."

JUDGE WILSON: The point I am making is you didn't say you got that in the airport.  When you are dealing with what you got at the airport you said,
"The documents we received consisted of Bundle B, also extracts of the criminal trial..."
you make no mention of this being an amendment to the original ...(intervention)

GEORGE BIZOS: (...indistinct)... as a new allegation.  We refer to it as a new allegation and I am sure that the Secretary of the Commission that sent us the documents will confirm that this was together with Bundle B.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe can you throw any light on that?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Judge Bundle B was forwarded to George Bizos, or to the attorneys rather, and what he is referring to on page 4 formed part of the amendment, if my memory serves me well, to the application.  It is not reflected on Bundle B.  And those are the documents that I received on the 5th of May, although they had been forwarded to my good self on the - posted on the 14th of April by the applicants, but I received them on the 5th of May.  That is why they had to reach them that late.  I have a letter as to when they were sent to me.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Mr Bizos because you had, at least provisionally making your submissions, may I ask you, without in any way trying to indicate which way our decision will go because indeed I can't, how much time do you - assuming that we grant the postponement, how much more time do you need before you could be ready?

GEORGE BIZOS: If I were available I would require two weeks.  This is out of term.  We specifically sought a date out of term and I have made some very fixed arrangements as to where I am going to be between now and the end of July.  I am not available.  A date was suggested, I believe that provisionally counsel for the Commission suggested a date to the other side when they too are not available, so it would - if the matter is postponed on the discussions that we had with counsel for the applicants, it would, subject to the Committee granting the postponement, it would have to be postponed to after the first week of August.  Because may I say that my clients have gone to considerable, well have relied on my doing this application.  I have partly prepared it and I could have done it on the 28th when term begins but Judge Nugent requires me in his court for three or four days on the 28th.  I will be available shortly after that on the basis that some of the preparation, if not most of it, will be done by those that do not have my commitments.
	Finally Mr Chairperson you may have seen the letter of authority, I don't know whether it has been handed in, that originally we appeared for Mrs Hani only.  We now appear for the South African Communist Party as well.  We explain in the affidavit when Jerome Cronin became aware of the detailed allegations which the applicants make against his party and what the late Chris Hani stood for, he stands for, so they most certainly have a real and substantial interest.  The deceased was their secretary general.  
	Much of what is said in these documents in, to state the least and try and avoid exaggeration, in intemperate language and they are entitled to be heard.  So that even if you find Mrs Hani or us in some way responsible for not being ready, which we do not concede, there is another perspective of another organisation which cannot be ignored.  We have not been, although a notice to the African National Congress was traced, we couldn't establish precisely when it was sent and we believe, unless there is some clerical error in the filing system of the South African Communist Party they could find no trace of their having been given notice.
	But I don't want to put it on a technical basis.  If this were a civil over a modest bit of money a Supreme Court Judge would have granted a postponement once documents were thrown at us in this way, two weeks before.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Except that, unlike the Supreme Court, we don't have an indefinite lifetime.  You see our problem is that this Amnesty Committee we are bound by law to finish our business within a few months time, literally a few months time.  And that is why - and it's not a question of being difficult, that is why we have got this problem when matters are being postponed and like, I mean we put aside a whole week and this whole week is probably not - if the postponement is granted we have lost a whole week and we are left with about 30 something weeks within which we must finish all the thousands of applications waiting for us, and yet we are expected to die out at the end of the year.  That's the problem.

JUDGE WILSON: Another problem which I think you are very aware of Mr Bizos but understand is that we are dealing with the liberty of the individual.  It is not a case in the Supreme Court for an exorable sum of money.