Amnesty Hearings — Vosloorus — 1998-11-24

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: Normally I won't say third force because to me when we talk about third force we talk about a force that we don't know.  I will say the past regime was responsible for that and that is why even the former president will be proud to say people inside Thokoza should give - should come forward and give evidence of how they attacked because they knew exactly that people who are held in this attack, they can attack and clean their movements.

ADV MOTATA: Mr Machitje, other than these say organised attacks by professionals, are you saying there was a complete absence of criminality.  I'll tell you why I'm asking you that, there's a famous section out in Khatlehong, Malaleki Section, where even the SDU's fought amongst themselves, that they were perpetrating these criminalities.  Now when we look at the political aspect, the picture, are we saying you are applying for amnesty for the incidents which you have mentioned which are not very clear to me up to this stage, that your SDU's were basically there to fight the Inkatha Freedom Party, are you saying that to us?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: The purpose of the SDU's was to defend the community and as the community and as the co-ordinator ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: From whom?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: From the IFP which was assisted by Koevoet, ISU.  The East Rand Theft Unit was also involved in that.  The car unit, the theft unit - the Germiston Car Theft Unit was also responsible or involved in ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on, is there anything else you would like to draw our attention to?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: Yes, as I said earlier and now I will keep on raising it, we talk of Thokoza, inside Vosloorus and I indicated to you I'm having a map here that I want to ...(intervention)

ADV DE JAGER: But please show it to us.

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: Firstly I'd like to give you the explanation of colours which are there, what it stands for, the green line it's Khumalo Street and the yellow line is Buthelezi Street and where we have "x" with a red mark, those are places where people normally call it flashpoints.  Where I've marked with a black "x" during the violence there were no houses.  These are recently built houses and where I've marked with a blue "x" it's Sienda Street, this is a street which was at a later stage used as an alternative road for the community of Thokoza to leave the township.  So as I say, I'll attempt to bring Thokoza inside this hall.  As you can see how Khumalo goes inside Thokoza.  The violence went to a stage where Buthelezi Street was a demarcation line, members of IFP couldn't cross to the township and members of the community couldn't pass to - across and I've identified the deployment of the army, the Internal Stability around Thokoza.  On the far left Koevoet had a base and at a later stage was used by the Internal Stability Unit.  In the inside of the township where I've written "army", the military immediately created a base there, there is a base that is called Steenpent and Koevoet was deployed there.  Just around there on my pen, there was a hostel which was called "Sun City".  It was a company hostel and when the violence started people who occupied that hostel left the hostel and the ISU occupied that hostel.  And right - going back to Buthelezi and the demarcation line, we have Njasafi where I've written "hostels" and we have Kutusa, we have Madala Hostel.  Houses which were facing those hostels were - the majority of people staying there were members of IFP.  On top here next to Phola Park we used to have a hostel by the name of Kalanyon.  There were no houses as I indicated that with the "x" black mark the hostel was attacked when I was still in prison and when I came out of prison I found that people destroyed that hostel brick by brick so there is no hostel currently as we are talking.  We have a hostel in the street that separates Khatlehong and Thokoza which is right around here on bottom.  We had a hostel that was called Buyafutsi.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you perhaps help me, the hostel that was destroyed brick by brick, was that a hostel occupied by ANC supporters or IFP supporters?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: I indicated that I was in prison and what I will tell you is what I know and ...(indistinct) inside Thokoza.   Inside ...(indistinct) it was a mix of people staying there, different cultures and I don't have a full background of what started the violence which caused the bringing down of the hostel and I was made to believe that TRC had that information because it appeared as if the argument which took place inside the hostel between a Zulu guy and a Xhosa guy led to a war which at a later stage people who are said to be behind the violence use that to give a picture that this is an ethnic thing, it's a war between Xhosas and Zulus.  As I said to you, this is Thokoza inside Vosloorus.  I just want to give you a picture of when the violence changes at a certain turn where I was involved with instruction of stopping them, travelling to Khumalo Street.  They were stopped just next to the stadium, there was a - there where I've written "stadium", there was a garage.  We have two sections there, Thokoza Garden on top and Beirut underneath and the funeral procession was stopped right at the middle of those two sections, it's where the attack took place and as I said earlier that was the last funeral procession that went through the street.  I talked about the perception that everybody had about Thokoza of Khumalo being a dangerous street.  You know Khumalo was a dangerous street up until a certain period.  The demarcation line was Buthelezi Street and from there going up as I said, these are the people who I strongly believe were members of the ANC and the ANC had a stronghold of this township and I just want to mention one other thing which I think normally when we talk of Thokoza, people have a wrong idea of what really happened inside Thokoza.  I once gave orders that members of central command or SDU's as I said should immediately go to every taxi owner inside and a meeting was called at Mahaum, Mahaum is just next to where I've written "army".  It's when we took a decision that to stop the tendency of taxis taken inside the hostel.  Taxis should turn at Nkaki Street, Nkaki Street is just down here.  So taxis from Thokoza will normally turn there and go up and go to town.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Makanjee, I'm going to adjourn for tea now.

MR MAKANJEE: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: It's an opportunity in your client's interest.

MR MAKANJEE: I will Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll adjourn for tea.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

MR MAKANJEE: (continues) Mr Machitje, would you continue where you had left off previously please?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: (s.u.o.)  I am showing Thokoza to the people and what I want to say is the war that took place inside Thokoza denied so many people an opportunity to live a normal life and I have an example that I want to make, that is a kid who is sitting here and his name is Sibusiso Nobase.  This kid, if one looks at him, one will say he is a baby and yet he is not a baby, he is eighteen years old and if he was not staying inside Thokoza one will really believe that this kid, his future will have been taken care of.  The kid is currently doing standard eight.  One other thing that I wanted to indicate here is earlier I mentioned that I distributed arms or ammunition inside the township.  The person that I'm going to mention has applied for the distribution of arms and he has applied for amnesty.  His name is Comrade Robert McBride.  He is a person who normally handed to me.  Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me what was the point you making about the young gentleman, the eighteen year old?