Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-06

DR ALI: Mrs Kheswa are you going to continue or do you want to stop at this point?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is where I will end.

DR ALI: Thank you Mrs Kheswa.  I will just give you a little time just to get your thoughts back together again and there are just a few questions that I would like to ask you if you don't mind.  Mrs Kheswa I am sure that it must be very difficult for you as a mother to be here speaking about your son, especially given all the allegations that have been made against your son.  But I would just like to ask you a few questions because I think it will help us to try and get a picture of what was happening.  In your statement  you start out where you say that your life changed on the 26th December 1990 when your late son Victor was summoned to a meeting of a Street Commission in which he had to appear before a peoples court.  I just want to actually go back a little bit because - is it true that actually before December 1990 your son had already been accused of being involved in the shooting of a youth and that in fact he had appeared in court and was out on bail.  That was as far back as March 1990 already. Is that true?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: I still say he came to me, he told me that when he was coming back from school but it was discovered
HRV/1047 that/...
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that he was not guilty.  He had not done anything.

DR ALI: Now before this incident which you described where  your son was asked to appear in front of the peoples court, it is also claimed that your son was actually involved in activities with a gang.  Do you have any knowledge of this, of your son being involved with any gang?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is as far as they allege because his friends never came to me.  I have never spoken to them and I have never seen them doing anything.

DR ALI: Mrs Kheswa, what I am going to just share with you is the information which we got and some of the research which was conducted through the Commission.  This is not intended as an accusation in any way or seeing anybody as guilty.  It is just the information which we received while doing research and I think it is important that you hear this so that you can express your own views on this.  It is further claimed that because of these alleged gang activities which your son and a few others were involved in, that there was an attempt by members of the community to start let's call an anti crime campaign and that part of the reason why your son was actually summoned to this court was to confront him on these alleged criminal activities which involved shootings and killings and thefts and that was the background to your son actually being called to appear before a peoples court.  Do you want to say anything about that?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: In that commission of the Street Committee he went and all the allegations or the accusations they had against him, it was discovered that there was absolutely no testimony to back up their allegations. Nobody actually gave testimony that he had actually done those things.
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DR ALI: Now according to the account that we have heard it was following this incident where he appeared in front of the peoples court where there was an altercation, he was assaulted, shot apparently with his own gun.  It was then that your son took refuge at Kwamadale hostel and it is alleged that he then became either a member or a supporter of Inkatha.  Do you know if your son ever became a member or a supporter?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: We moved from the location because we were running away from the threats that my house was going to be burned.  When I got to Kwamadale he had gone to help the Inkatha according to their allegations but it was not like that.  We ran away from the location because the house was being burnt.

DR ALI: Now it was apparently after this, after your son went to Kwamadale, that following that further claim that he was often seen in the presence of policemen, either in cars or accompanied by police, do you went to comment on this?  Did your friend know many policemen, was he often with policemen?  Did you ever witness him with policemen?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is why I say now that I am asking the Commission to conduct an enquiry as to those allegations so that these people may come forward and put their story forward.  I can be happy to know those policemen.

DR ALI: Your son was also implicated in the murder of Christopher Dungalembu.  Right?   That happened on the 5th, before the actual killing at the (indistinct).  Now somewhere it actually said that your son and Christopher actually knew each other, that they may have been at school together.  Is that true?   Or they were former colleagues.

MRS EMMA KHESWA: They knew each other very well.  They grew
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up together.  From a very early age they grew up together.  Even at Zone 7 there is nobody that I had an altercation with.  I had no enemies.  Even Christopher's family, we were in good terms as well as Khetise and Christopher were friends and at the time that Christopher was killed Khetise was not around, he was at the hospital.

DR ALI: In your statement though Mrs Kheswa you say that Christopher was killed on the 5th January.  On the 12th January was the attack on the house of the mourners.  In your statement you say that it was on the 5th or the 12th January when Victor was in hospital because if I understand your statement correctly, and I am reading from your statement, you say that it was - and I am reading
"On the 12th January while I was in Boksburg..."
You say that was the night when Victor was under intensive care at Boksburg hospital.  So when exactly are you speaking about?  Was he in hospital the day of the killing of Christopher or the night of the attack on the house?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: What I can say is on the 26th when they came to call him, I don't remember the date very well, that is the date on which he was shot before he went to the hospital, but before he went to Boksburg hospital he was taken to the Sebokeng hospital.  Then on the 1st January, that was during new year, he was still at the hospital.  What I remember is that he went to Boksburg on the 8th January.  Then on the 12th people were killed at the night vigil.  He had gone to the hospital on the 8th January.  But I don't remember very well the dates at which he was admitted at Sebokeng but on the 1st January he was at the Sebokeng hospital.

DR ALI: And the accusations which were made against your
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son later, his involvement in the killing of members of the family of Mr Sotsu, which occurred after these events.  Do you want to say anything about that?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: Yes, these were the allegations but at the time there was testimony that he was not there.  Even the police even went with him to go and show them where he was at that particular time.  Then he was found not guilty.  But when this appeared in the newspapers when he spoke about all those allegations and denying those allegations that is when people started knowing him.  Before then he wasn't known.  It is only when he appeared on newspapers that is when he started getting known.  Even that case was reopened only after three months.  After it had been finalised.  It was finalised and reopened.  That is when he appeared in the newspapers.  And even the people who never knew him came and alleged that they knew him.

DR ALI: Did your son ever speak to you about these things that were happening, did he ever speak to you about policemen who were approaching him, wanted him to do things for them or tried to get him to work with them?  Did he ever speak about anything like that?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: No he never used to talk to me about such things.  This is the reason why I am requesting this to be reinvestigated because I know absolutely nothing.  So I want this police to come forward.  The police he is alleged to have acted with.  I want to know them.