Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-18

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: You see Mr Chairman, when I started - after my training, when I started working with explosives I had a very strict code of rules because you only make one mistake with explosives and I made very sure that I would never keep explosives, any amount of explosives that could harm a human person or life, at the police station.
	 Although I was responsible for inspecting the contents of commercial explosives magazines throughout my area, and although I could have kept explosives at any one of these magazines, I decided not to because it just was not a safe thing to do.  So because of my strict rule, I find it difficult to believe that I actually brought the explosives.  But because it's become an issue here since reading all the statements, I've thought about it.  It is possible that I fetched these explosives from Ladysmith Security Branch, it is possible.   It is possible.

MR WILLS: In other words, you can't specifically recall this.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: I can't, I cannot, I wish I could.

MR WILLS: You say you arrived at the Mbazwaan Police Station and you were introduced to Col Visser at that stage.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Mr Chairman, I can't remember if it was at that stage, but I deed meet, during the day I did meet Col Visser.  I think it was there at that police station.  I'm sure it was in Mbazwaan.  But I definitely met Apt van Zyl there, I'm sure I also met Sgt or W/O Carr there and I also saw that the deceased person was in the car.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Sorry, what was the last thing you said?  The deceased person was ...?  I just didn't catch it.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: ... in the car.

MR LAX: In the car, okay.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: In the car that Apt van Zyl was in.  So it must have been, Col or Brig Visser must have been there at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: How far is this police station, Mbazwaan, from the spot actually where the killing took place?

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Sir, I've been there so many times, but to try and remember, it's not very far, that's all I know.  Mbazwaan is about half-an-hour drive.

CHAIRPERSON: Past this place, coming from Pongola for instance?

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: No, Sir, I couldn't answer that.  It's not really my area, but Mbazwaan was about half-an-hour's drive from the Josini dam, I think about half-an-hour's drive from the Josini dam area where this incident took place.  I'd be lying if I told you exactly.

MR LAX: Sorry, just for the record, it's a lot further than that.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Is it.

MR LAX: Yes, it's further south firstly, in that area.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Okay.

MR LAX: Well almost due east actually I suppose and it's at least an hour, depending on the road at the time, an hour and hour and fifteen minutes probably by vehicle.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: What I do recall, Mr Chairman, is that when we left it was still reasonably dark, it was dark, the sun - it was first light, by the time we reached the destination it was bright light you know.  That's what I remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I don't know whether you'll be able to help me, perhaps Mr Lax could help us, but how far from Pongola is this place?  The Josini dam, actually the spot at the Josini dam.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Oh no, not very far.  From Pongola it's not far, Sir, although I wouldn't be able to tell you how far.  All I know is that it's pretty closed.  I'm sorry, I'm being very vague.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.

MR WILLS: You say that some time during that morning, Mr van Zyl informed you about this particular deceased person, that he'd been a security agent, and I'm referring to page 16 and 17 paragraph 36, that this person had been a Security Branch agent and operating under Visser  and he'd sold out and become an ANC member.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Yes, that is what I recall of the conversation, something along the lines that this was an agent who had turned and was now a double-agent working for the ANC, and that this turning had compromised an operation.  And I seem to recall that there had already been deaths as a result of this in Swaziland, but I can't be absolutely sure about that.

MR WILLS: Now you also knew - or when did you become alive to the fact that this person was going to be killed and you were going to be blowing up his body?

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: On the way to the lake, on the way to Josini dam I was informed.  I think we stopped somewhere for the call of nature along the road somewhere and I was informed then that this in fact is what was going to happen.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now why didn't you question this instruction, or why did you remain involved in this operation?

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Mr Chairman, first of all I was dealing with an officer that I knew extremely well and who I respected, that was Apt Sakkie van Zyl.  He'd proved himself to me on many occasions that he was an honest person who could be trusted and that he took his work and his tasks extremely seriously, as I did, and for him to ask me to involve myself in something like that, I realised that he needed my help.  To reinforce everything, Brig Visser, being a much higher ranking officer, was also on the scene and I had no hesitation in carrying on, Sir, although at the time it did shock me and I wish I'd been somewhere else at the time, frankly.  But it was something that I was asked to do and I carried on.

MR WILLS: You also are pretty clear in paragraph 36 that you refer to this person as he appeared to you to be sedated.  Why do you say that?

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Sir, I can't recall seeing this person when he wasn't sleeping.  But remember I arrived there early in the morning, it was still dark, he was snoozing in the car then and the only time I saw him basically awake was when we got to the disused farmhouse at Josini dam.  So he appeared to me to have been sedated.
	I know this is a contentious issue here, but I seem to recall that, I thought somebody had told me that he was sedated, but I obviously was wrong, but he did appear to be sedated to me, I suppose because he'd been sleeping and was sleeping most of the time that I saw him.

MR WILLS: You go on further, you say that later you found out that this black male had been drugged.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Ja, Mr Chairman, that's what I - I can't recall who told me or why I got that impression, but that is the impression that is left with me and I can't recall why I had that impression, apart from the fact that he was sleeping all the time.

MR WILLS: You can't remember ...(intervention)

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: I can remember nobody - I can't remember who told me or if in fact anyone did tell me, maybe it's just a perception that I gathered at the time.

MR WILLS: Can you explain to the Committee what your recollection is from the time you left the police station to the time when this operation was completed.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Mr Chairman, I was actually - as I said, I wished I'd been somewhere else because I realised I'd got myself into something that I really wished I could extract myself from.  My thoughts were racing all the way there.
	When we arrived at the spot, I remember we got out of the vehicle, the deceased person was lying down, I can't recall it as a tree, but there was a pole or something there and a fence, a wooden picket fence, he was lying there on the grass.  I realised then the enormity of what I was expected to do and I realised then that this living person was about to be eliminated and that worried me somewhat, in fact it worried me considerably.

MR WILLS: Ja, carry on, what happened?  You arrived there as you say, in your vehicle, you travelled alone in your own vehicle.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Yes.

MR WILLS: To the scene.

DONALD SPENCER GOLD: Yes.

MR WILLS: And then there was a Landrover used.