Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-03-27

MR DE RU: With regards to culpable homicide I was sentenced to five years imprisonment.  On the charge of murder, 13 years imprisonment and on the charge of defeating the ends of justice, four years imprisonment.  It was said that the sentences run concurrently and that it is how it comes down to an effective 13 years.

MR MADASA: With regard to the charges of defeating the ends of justice, you can mention them where they fit as you give your evidence.

JUDGE WILSON: Would, do you think it would be more convenient and would enlighten us more if you were to deal
with that now or as you give your evidence when it comes up?

MR DE RU: Your Worship, as a result of the change in my application this morning, the agreement which we entered into, I would prefer it if I could set it out in my testimony because as you can see this is a very - rather thick document and I would not like to waste the Committee's time.  I do not - I know you do not have much of that and I would like to ask you to bear with me if you see me paging around, it is not that I am deliberately searching for evidence as, it is because of the sudden change this morning that we would only be dealing with these two matters.  I will explain to you when we come to the charge of murder how the charge of defeating the ends of justice emanated.  I thank you for your patience and I thank you for the opportunity.  Your Worships, in case, it will, it might be easier for my legal representative and also to save time, I will start with my testimony.  I am prepared to testify on my own instead of having him lead me by questioning.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you give us an indication as to which pages you would refer to and whether there will be certain aspects which you could just confirm instead of going through all the evidence.  If you think that you could just confirm certain things, you could just mention them and if we want to ask you any questions with regard to that we will do that.

MR DE RU: I understand that as such.  I just have one main problem with regards to the documents given to my advocate.  They have been numbered and my application has not been numbered.  I do not know if it will be at all possible that the Committee could give me the documents which will ease this and speed up the whole process.  I thank you for your assistance.  May I proceed, your Worship?  Thank you.
	I thank for the opportunity to be able to appear before you this morning.  I am applying for amnesty as has already been mentioned to you earlier with regard to the culpable homicide, the murder and the defeating the ends of justice which I am serving a sentence at the moment.  It has been agreed between my legal representative and I that we will apply for amnesty with regards to the other matters at a later stage since they do not quite fit in with the two matters that we are dealing with at the moment.  
	I would also just like to inform you that as far as the Attorney-General is concerned the matter referred to in the letters before you has been postponed to the 2nd of June this year in anticipation of the decision which the honourable, which the honourable Commission will find.  It is with regard to the two charges of murder which took place during a police action and I will not deal with that right now, but in due course.  
	Your Worships, I will testify before you that my deeds were committed with a political motive.  It was committed within the conflict of the past and that all facts, relevant facts will be revealed to you now.  
	I was in the employ of the State as a member of the South African Police Service since 1976 up until the 24th of the eleventh month 1995 after my appeal was turned down and I had to start serving my prison sentence.  I held the rank of Captain.  I worked as a Detective and at the time of the commission of these crimes I was the Commanding Officer of the Investigative Unit at Sasolburg in the Free State.  I will show that these deeds were committed within the ambit of my duties and within my authority aimed at - and it was aimed at political organisations such as the ANC who were involved in a political conflict against the State and/or against members or supporters of such organisations.  It was done bona fide with the intention of combatting the onslaught.  Hence these deeds were committed to combat the conflict of the past.  
	I also believed that I was working within the framework, operating within the framework of my duties as will become apparent to you in my testimony which I will give and also within the framework of my competency.

MR MADASA: Sorry, Mr de Ru to interrupt you.  Can you commence with your giving the Committee the details of your
person as to when were you born and at what stage did you join the force, how old were you then and continue from there?

MR DE RU: I understand.  I was born on the 15th of January 1955.

ADV DE JAGER: Which page are you referring to?

MR DE RU: It is marked page 1 right at the beginning.

ADV DE JAGER: Is it page 10 of the numerated pages?

MR DE RU: We can start on page 10 as well, it is the same thing, but I think the question which the honourable Advocate asked me will be found on page 1 with regards to my age and where I was born and if I understood him correctly.

ADV DE JAGER: I am, I do not know if your numbers are numerated on the top right-hand corner.  Is that not on page 10 and in the centre it is numbered 1.  Is that the document you are referring to?

MR DE RU: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: When you are referring to the documents please refer to the numerals in the top right-hand corner.

JUDGE WILSON: Which page, number 1?

MR DE RU: It is page 10.  May I proceed?  As I said to you I was a member of the South African Police.  My force number was 00693260.  I received my college training ...

ADV DE JAGER: Mr de Ru, the general background, will you not please just confirm under oath that it is 100% correct as set out here.  How far does the general background go in these documents?

MR DE RU: Your Worship, page 11 on the second last paragraph, just before the last paragraph, I would say, the background goes that far.

ADV DE JAGER: And do you confirm that what is set out here is correct and do you maintain that?

MR DE RU: I confirm it as correct and I still maintain that.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, proceed then.

MR MADASA: Yes, carry on.

MR DE RU: As you please.  I proceed to page 12 where I refer to the fact that I met Colonel Herman Voigt for the first time.  That is the last paragraph where I say "during this investigation".  You will see there that reference is made to my meeting with Colonel Herman Voigt.  Once again I am going to confirm the content of that paragraph as correct.
	To - with regards to page 13, the next paragraph starts with "during 1992 I was" - up until the end of that page, paragraph 14, I beg your pardon, I am referring to page 14, the top paragraph, the second paragraph on page 14.  The, I would like to refer you to the end of the second paragraph on page 14.  I would like to refer you now to page 214, 215.

ADV DE JAGER: Has this report on page 214 and 215 been compiled?