Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-28

MR COETZEE: It is also commonly known that during the time that you were involved in DCC and even subsequently, you were also involved in crime, and you were charged with various criminal offences which you committed when you were with DCC, could you possibly explain to the Committee what was the nature of your work and what gave rise to your involvement in crime?

FERDINAND BARNARD: It is correct Chairperson.  I am not trying to politicise all the crimes that I committed, it would be futile at this point, but what happened was that I began to live the life of a criminal every day.  I liaised with criminals every day.  I liaised on their level every day, I visited the same places as they did.  I spent days and nights in clubs, escort agencies and brothels.  At a certain stage, I had a whole system of nine escort agencies surrounding Shell House which I could name up, like that.
	I began keeping a record of them, it was actually a front, but I was busy with Military Intelligence.  I used drugs with these people, I had access to buildings, I tasked people within the criminal underworld to move in on MK members who had been identified, to establish contact with them, to make friends with them.  I established a prostitution network where prostitutes were tasked with long-term and short-term plans.  Long-term would be for them to hire a flat near Shell House, in the Diplomat Hotel which was furnished and rent it.  It was equipped with telephones, video cameras and sound equipment which would then record persons.  Two prostitutes would be placed in the apartment who would then specifically work on these MK members.
	They had to get them to stay there and entertain them with alcohol and drugs, then we would get hold of their keys.  In this way make duplicates, take documents that they had on them.  Some of the conversations they had, were also recorded and this would then be used to get them in a situation where they were planted with drugs and stolen items and so forth.  
	Short-term, prostitutes would sleep with them, and then they would explain or arrange that the prostitute would go out with the MK member, but use a vehicle which she knew was stolen and she wouldn't tell him that, she would say that she needed to fetch something in Eldorado Park, like drugs and that he should take the car and just drive around the block, because otherwise they would appear to be suspicious, and then an MI team would be rigged from the police and as soon as she withdrew from the place, she would be picked up and the man wouldn't know that he would be driving a stolen car, and perhaps there would be a gun that was planted in the vehicle.
	The police would pick him up and he would be involved.  He would be directly incriminated in an offence without even being political, his bail would be refused or opposed and in that way, we would disrupt MK activities.  That was just an example of the things that we did.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Coetzee, I don't think we need to spend too much time on the DCC activities.  We don't need the details for the purpose of the application.

MR COETZEE: Mr Commissioner, there is just one incident which is of rather importance, which I just wanted to build up to, which Mr Barnard will testify about now.
	Mr Barnard, very well, we are now not going to go into details concerning the DCC activities, but there is actually one aspect that you feel very seriously about, concerning your DCC involvement, and this is in relation to a robbery in Lusasaneng in Bophuthatswana where you were involved and also found guilty.
	Can you  just possibly start there and tell the Commission what happened after that robbery?