Amnesty Hearings — Phokeng — 1996-05-20

MABITSO ANGELBY PHETOANE: Thank you.   Firstly, let me repeat what the chief said yesterday when he welcomed the guests here and opened these proceedings, when he said this is the beginning of the events heard by this Committee in Phokeng, and Phokeng will have to be exemplary in South Africa.   That was true.  I want to point these words to the Baphokeng and tell them that you are very lucky that the Amnesty Committee started its proceedings here at the Baphokeng Civic Centre.  	Good people, what I want to say, is Phokeng has been in existence for a long time.  Therefore the Baphokeng, all the Baphokeng people are one community.  There is no one who doesn't relate to the other here in Phokeng.   What happens here in Phokeng which brought us here, really touched every member of the Baphokeng tribe and we are very happy that today the perpetrators have come and explained to us what happened.
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	In sharing the council of the Phokeng, but please allow me with due respect, to say to the Committee, we as the committee of the Phokeng, as I have already mentioned that you are a family.  The elders of Phokeng are elders to all of us, the grandfathers, the grandmothers and the words of what I didn't like, which I never personally liked, is that when we talk about older people or an elderly, we must speak street language or use terms such as girlfriend or boyfriend.  That's how the Baphokeng people are.  Although we are very sad we still have to avoid such words or names, because these don't show respect in any way.  
	Good people, I would like to say that you must erase such words as girlfriends whilst you are referring to our grandfathers and grandmothers.
	I would further like to say to the Committee and the Baphokeng tribe who doesn't know or who don't know,  that me as Sambitso Phetoane, the guys who performed these deeds, who came before this Committee, are people who I know very well.  The person unto whom they did this is my father in my terms.  I would like to say I would like to forgive them and ask them to consider before doing such things, that they are doing it to their own community.
	Furthermore, the perpetrators of this incident have already said or have told you their feelings and the sons of the deceased have also told you how they feel about the whole scenario.  Therefore, I would like to plead with the Baphokeng that please, the difficult times we had have already passed.  Therefore, this is the time to talk about what happened in the past so that we can be forgiven today.  	The whole community is like that.  I am not only talking about the people who gave evidence here.  I am
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talking about the whole community, because these difficulties were not only for the people who gave evidence here, the whole community was living in those difficult times as a nation.
	Please, let's sit down like we are sitting today and reveal the truth and put it on the table before the Committee.  I am happy with what Mr Charles Mokgatle said when he said during those difficult times, you said I was an outcast, but today, the Commission is here so that Mr Mokgatle can present his story and you can listen to him.  So we have to forgive one another as a Baphokeng tribe next time, without the presence of the Committee, so that we can live together again in harmony as we did before.  
	I plead with you the good community, let's forget about the past, come here and sit down and talk about these things so that we can forgive one another and start living together in harmony like we did before again.  
	Good people, in those difficult times in the past, many of our heroes left us, who were upright in the community, like Mr Glad Mokgatle, Mr Magetla Phetoane, Mr Goporana Sorane, Mr P...(indistinct) Rappor, but people fughting about Baphokeng, who Phokeng had as their pride.  When we talked about Phokeng we were referring to such people and they left us today, but if we can come together as a community. Those are heroes who left us, they will again come and live within us, if we together live in harmony and have forgiven each other or one another about the past.  
	When I am finished, I would like to say, I would like to thank all the Baphokeng who in these two past days have come here to listen to the evidence, to listen to the truth when it emerges. I would like to thank the Committee for
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coming here to the rural area and not only considering the urban areas.  We thank them for that respect they showed for us and the Baphokeng tribe has come back together again and the other things we leave to the Committee.   I thank you very much.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you very much.
	Mr Currin, have you decided whether you are going to call any further witnesses?

MR CURRIN: The only other witness that we would like to have called would have been someone from the African National Congress.  We don't know what their position is and we will only know probably at lunch time.  So if the Committee would allow us to indicate after lunch, we would appreciate that.  We are obviously in the hands of the office of the African National Congress.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Currin, we, I think, have afforded you a great deal of opportunity to enable you to call witnesses and whether the difficulties arise because of your inability to communicate with the relevant people or not, it does seem that adequate time has been given to you, and unless you are persuasive that there is something highly relevant in the evidence that this man is going to give, that affects or might affect the decision of this Committee, I am not inclined to give you any further latitude on that regard.  You have to be satisfied in your mind that the witness you propose calling has something highly relevant to say to this Committee.

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman, I believe that the evidence that the witness would give is relevant.  However, I can give no indication to the Committee that the witness is willing and/or able to testify and therefore I think I have no other
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option but to say that we can take the case no further.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you.  Do you wish to address the Committee?

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman, I certainly would like the opportunity to address the Committee and present motivation and argument as to why in our view the application by the two applicants should succeed.  However, we would require around some time in which to just prepare our argument finally and present it and we wonder if we could present the argument after lunch.  We have a lot of papers, we have heard a lot of evidence.  We worked late last night to put it together so that we would be in a position to present argument immediately, but we certainly would appreciate a little time in which just to finalise the argument.

HASSAN MALL: Is it quite clear that you are not in a position to commence addressing us now?

MR CURRIN: Mr Chairman, we regard this application, these applications as extremely important.  I certainly could start now but I would prefer an opportunity until two o'clock.  We will waiver lunch.  We are asking for an adjournment of 30 minutes early. We will waiver our lunch break.  We will work here until two o'clock, until you readjourn.  We would prefer to commence the argument then than now.

HASSAN MALL: Very well, Mr Currin, you will be afforded an opportunity to address the Committee, after the adjournment and we hope to commence at two o'clock.  This Committee will now take an adjournment and resume at two o'clock.
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ON RESUMPTION

HASSAN MALL: Are you ready to proceed, Mr Currin?

MR CURRIN: Yes, sir.