Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-03-12

UNKNOWN: May I approach you then when a problem 
arises pertaining to the record, Mr Chairman?

HASSAN MALL: Yes, there is no hard and fast rule, but we 
were hoping that if we discussed the matter here publicly, 
it is clear to all interested parties, that this matter is 
not just going to drag on and on, you know, and the public 
knows nothing about when we are going to be turning our mind 
to this application. So I think it is important for the 
public to know that the next step in these proceedings is 
going to be heads of argument, which at present are to be 
four weeks from now, and if there are difficulties in the 
way of obtaining a transcript of the evidence, that is a 
factor which the Committee will take into account.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, if you will just bear with me 
for one moment.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I beg your pardon.  Mr 
Chairman, there is one aspect which I want to raise with the 
Committee and that is the question, if the heads of argument 
is presented to the Committee, can we accept that the 
applications have been finalised and the applications will 
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UNKNOWN: 177

<UNKNOWN>: then be adjudged on the basis of the evidence presented to 
the Committee coupled with the heads of argument?  
Obviously, if that is not the case, I would like an 
indication from the Committee exactly how possibly other 
amnesty applications might have an influence on that, 
because it might be important for me to present you with 
supplementary heads of argument, pertaining to other 
applications if the Committee is going to take the contents 
of other applications into account.

HASSAN MALL: I think you must assume that when the time 
comes for the Committee to consider this massive volume of 
evidence, and its far-reaching implications, that if at some 
stage in the near future, other applicants give evidence, 
whose evidence may impact on your client's case, your 
attention will be drawn to that.  You will be afforded an 
opportunity to react to it.

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chairman, I just want to clear this 
out that I would then have the right to present you with 
supplementary - if you haven't given judgment yet, to 
present you with supplementary heads of argument pertaining 
to that evidence in the other application that is going to 
be led by somebody else.

HASSAN MALL: Well, the whole purpose of drawing it to your 
attention is to enable you to deal with the matter.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I just wanted to 
...(intervention)

JUDGE WILSON: As I recollect, one of your clients yesterday 
asked us to have regard to the evidence of someone else who 
had made an application.  Could I add something to what the 
Chairman has said about notification.  It seems to me that 
it might well be in your interest if you are notified of 
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W CAPE: 178
hearings.  Rather than merely the evidence that was later - 
because obviously you would be - your clients should be 
interested parties at such hearings.

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chairman, we would appreciate that 
if the Commission could let us know of all hearings that are 
scheduled so that we can decide exactly where we have to ...

JUDGE WILSON: Well, all hearings relating to incidents that 
your clients have been involved in or may be.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: And clearly you don't want to be told about 
hearings that have nothing whatsoever to do with them.

UNKNOWN: Yes, but Mr Chairman, what I do foresee is 
that we also act for about 20 other applicants.  So I do 
foresee that we might be here in respect of other 
applications as well.  So we would like to have a schedule 
of all hearings that are scheduled so that we can decide.  
We will take it up with the Commission.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.  Alright.  This brings to a conclusion the 
proceedings this morning, Mr Mpshe?

UNKNOWN: That is so, Mr Chairman, thank you.

HASSAN MALL: Yes.  Mr Mpshe, is the position that the 
Committee's next public hearing is going to be in East 
London on Monday morning?

UNKNOWN: That is so, Mr Chairman.

HASSAN MALL: Very well.  The Committee now adjourns and if 
there are any further developments that impact on this 
particular application, notice to all interested parties 
will be given.  You will make a copy of your heads of 
argument insofar as they are relevant to Mr Currin's client 
as well.

UNKNOWN: Yes, MR Chairman, I will make available a 
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UNKNOWN: 179

<UNKNOWN>: copy of my heads of argument to Mr Currin, and I will also 
endeavour to make it available to Mr Visser, if he should be 
interested and Mrs Kruger and anybody else who appeared 
during the hearings.

HASSAN MALL: Thank you.  Thank you very much.  The Committee 
adjourns.