Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

MR SEMENYA: Mr Mekgwe, let me just take from where you stopped.  You are not the only person who would approach Mrs Mandela for help, is that right?

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat your question?

MR SEMENYA: You are not the only person of the group of boys that were there, who would approach Mrs Mandela for help?

PELO MEKGWE: I (indistinct) correct.

MR SEMENYA: Do you know if other people would approach Mrs Mandela for help, financial help?

PELO MEKGWE: I am not sure.

MR SEMENYA: Now, let us deal with I think your answer is you said you are from Cape Town when you came to Johannesburg?  Where were you based at the time?

PELO MEKGWE: I was based in Grahamstown, that is in the Eastern Cape.

MR SEMENYA: Are you not mistaken that you would have been coming from Port Elizabeth?

PELO MEKGWE: Sorry?

MR SEMENYA: Are you not mistaken that you would have been coming from Port Elizabeth on that day?

PELO MEKGWE: I take a plane in Port Elizabeth, you are correct.

MR SEMENYA: It is not Cape Town, right?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, it is not Cape Town.

MR SEMENYA: It is just a mistake on your part?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Now, the reason you came to the consultation is you had made the contact and traced Mrs Mandela, is that right?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct yes.

MR SEMENYA: At that time, she didn't know where you were, is that right?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct.

MR SEMENYA: And you were desirous of making it known that some of the accusations against her, are not correct, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Including the fact that she would have helped your kidnapping out of the country, is that right?

PELO MEKGWE: That is correct.

MR SEMENYA: Now, yesterday was it impressed on you that Mrs Mandela has admitted somewhere to have been part of the assault?

PELO MEKGWE: Sorry?

MR SEMENYA: Was it impressed on you sometime yesterday by somebody that Mrs Mandela had admitted to the assaults?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Who impressed that on you?

PELO MEKGWE: There is one of my friends that I talked with yesterday concerning this case.

MR SEMENYA: I want to show you a statement and please confirm if it is a correct statement you made.

MR VALLY: Mr Chairperson, we are not aware of any statement that is about to be produced.  Is it possible to indulge us to peruse the statement as well before it is presented?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to do that?  Are you able to provide them with a copy?

MR SEMENYA: I would ask assistance, this is a copy I got from the TRC this morning.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't have that?

MR VALLY: I am not clear whether I do.  If I could see the transcript.

CHAIRPERSON: Just let him see the copy that you are referring to.  Can you just let them see what it is you are referring to please, thank you.

MR VALLY: I do have it Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, yes.  I can breathe a sigh of relief because we have been getting ourselves into something of a knot over documents, right you are.

MR SEMENYA: Can the statement be given to the witness to identify it?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you recognise it?

PELO MEKGWE: I recognise the statement yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR SEMENYA: Mr Mekgwe, I read that statement, just keep it where you are.  I want to give you another page we received from the TRC numbered page 18.   Do you see that statement?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I see that statement.

MR SEMENYA: I have highlighted there with an orange colour, can you see that?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I see it.

MR SEMENYA: Can you read what I have highlighted there?

PELO MEKGWE: It is said here that, I am not sure whether she was part of the assault.

MR SEMENYA: Who are you referring to there?

PELO MEKGWE: I was referring to Mrs Mandela.

MR SEMENYA: Now, when I look at your handwritten statement, it does not have that version.

PELO MEKGWE: I am not sure because the time when the statement was done, I was not here.  I am only aware of this statement that I was part of.

MR SEMENYA: Now, I want to give you another page 18 from the TRC documents.  May this document be given to the witness?  Do you see the bottom of page 18?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I see it.

MR SEMENYA: Now, that statement reads differently.  I have also highlighted that difference, can you read it out?

PELO MEKGWE: Winnie Mandela arrived before the association.  She was brought a chair to sit down.   She took part in questioning us, but she did not speak in any aggressive manner.  Winnie left at the same stage, but she was there when I was assaulted.

MR SEMENYA: Are you able to explain why those pages 18 don't look the same?  It was typed by the TRC, but I am trying to ...

PELO MEKGWE: I think here the reason is that I was told that it was referred to my first statement that I was doing in court that if the statements are not similar, there is a prison involved in these things, or other sentence involved in these things.  I was told.  I think that is the reason why maybe the statements are not the same.

MR SEMENYA: Can you repeat what you are saying?

PELO MEKGWE: I am saying maybe the statements are not the same precisely because I was told that if the statements are not the same as the statement I gave in a court of Jerry Richardson, I can be imprisoned for that case.

MR SEMENYA: Who told you this?

PELO MEKGWE: Ms Liela - I am not sure about the surname.

MR SEMENYA: Is it Ms Liela Groenewald of the TRC?

PELO MEKGWE: I think so yes.

MR SEMENYA: She told you that unless you make a statement that is the same as your testimony in the Richardson trial, you can land in trouble?

PELO MEKGWE: She quoted it, yes.

MR SEMENYA: And I seem to hear your evidence to say that your evidence in that trial that Mrs Mandela would have sjamboked you and hit you with fists, is not correct?

PELO MEKGWE: It is wrong, yes.

MR SEMENYA: About Ikaneng, you say you were forced to participate in that assault?

PELO MEKGWE: We were told to participate on that.

MR SEMENYA: By Jerry?

PELO MEKGWE: By Jerry exactly.

MR SEMENYA: Did Mrs Mandela say anything to force you about this Ikaneng's assault?

PELO MEKGWE: We have never seen him before.

MR SEMENYA: Now, at the manse there was Katiza Cebekhulu, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct, yes.

MR SEMENYA: Did he say to you at any time that he knew Mrs Mandela?

PELO MEKGWE: He didn't say it to us.

MR SEMENYA: Now, we were listening to Mr Morgan, he told us yesterday that when you people came into the car, you were just toyi-toying, when you left the manse?  Is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: It is correct, yes.

MR SEMENYA: I am just trying to ascertain how were you then forced to leave the manse?

PELO MEKGWE: Because we were then surrounded, we were told to go with them and ultimately in the bus, what happened is that we sat down.  We were told to join the singing, we joined.

MR SEMENYA: My instructions are you are mistaken, you are wrong, Mrs Mandela did not start the assault with the open hand as you say?

PELO MEKGWE: Are you saying I am wrong?

MR SEMENYA: Yes.

PELO MEKGWE: Maybe if you can give me more reasons for you to say that because I say it.

MR SEMENYA: What is your response to my statement to you?

PELO MEKGWE: I never say it, I don't agree with your statement then.

MR SEMENYA: Now, when you came back that is the day after the assault, I understand you and Stompie and the others remained for the entire day in the yard, is that right?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct.

MR SEMENYA: Were you within seeing distance of each other?

PELO MEKGWE: We were sitting in one room.

MR SEMENYA: You were sitting in one room?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Did there come an Indian Doctor to treat Stompie?

PELO MEKGWE: No one was treated.

MR SEMENYA: Did you see an Indian man at that room?

PELO MEKGWE: No.

MR SEMENYA: Chairperson, I have no further questions.