Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-23

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: (sworn states)

MR PRINSLOO: The applicant's application appears on page 39 to 51 and the rest on page 117 to 126. How old are you Mr Matthews?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I am 30.

MR PRINSLOO: Is it correct that you were charged in the Supreme Court in the Witwatersrand local division on charges of murder and other charges as it appears in the indictment before the Committee?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And after that you were found guilty on 4 charges of murder as well as other charges?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And Judge Marais gave you the death penalty  4 times?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Is it correct that as a result of the findings of the Constitutional Court that the death penalty is unconstitutional your case was referred to the Appeal Court and your sentence was set aside. Recently you were again for the same case by Judge Marais?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes. In last year the 26th, beg your pardon, last month on the 26th I was sentenced to life.

MR PRINSLOO: That would be the month of March?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: You were sentenced to life imprisonment for all the charges?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And you are serving your prison sentence at the Leeuwkop Prison?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Matthews you have applied for amnesty in this specific case?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And you have seen your application and the annexures. Do you confirm this?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you undergo military duty?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I completed my 2 years military duty. I also completed border duty at the Omega Battalion.

MR PRINSLOO: During your training and duty in the Defence Force were you at all informed regarding the relationship between the then South African government and the ANC/SACP Alliance?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes. Especially because I was trained for border duty they made it clear that the ANC/SACP Alliance was our enemy and that they had to be destroyed.

MR PRINSLOO: The duty which you delivered that in terms of a war or what was the situation?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: It was a war situation because I served on the border.

MR PRINSLOO: And it was military by nature?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: After you had completed your military duty later on in October 1993 you joined the AWB?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Why did you join the movement?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: It was the only movement which was supporting our own territory, right to self determination and religion. No other party was fighting for our own country and for our own rights at that point.

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage when you joined the AWB how did you see the political development in the country? Was it unavoidable that there would be a take over by the ANC/SACP Alliance?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: It was clear to me that the government of the time was negotiating with the ANC/SACP Alliance and I foresaw that this would lead to an election during which the black majority would take over.

MR PRINSLOO: Was it acceptable to you at that time that the ANC/SACP Alliance take over?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No I was raised and taught by the government of that time to resist it.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you afraid at that time that a black majority would rule the white minority?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And after you had joined the AWB did you receive any specific training in the organisation?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: During weekends they provided training on a farm. They taught us how to shoot with the home-made shot guns. These were things that I had already learnt in the Defence Force. But Mr Meiring once again showed us these things as well as how to launch attacks.

MR PRINSLOO: Are you english or afrikaans speaking normally?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I am afrikaans.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Matthews did you complete any exams in the AWB?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I wrote an exam regarding phase 1 which appears before the Committee.

MR PRINSLOO: And you passed this exam?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: Which rank did you occupy within the AWB?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: At the time of the incident I was a lieutenant because I had only been there for a short time.

MR PRINSLOO: On the 12th of December 1993 were you called in to Uncle Harry's Roadside Cafe?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I received a call from my sister. She told me that Commandant Martin had told us to meet at Uncle Harry's Roadside Cafe at nine 'o clock dressed in our camouflage gear and with our weapons.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you go in uniform?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I went as they instructed me to.

MR PRINSLOO: What was your weapon?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: The 357 Magnum.

MR PRINSLOO: And at Uncle Harry's Roadside Cafe as you have already heard in the testimony Commandant Martin was in command. He was in command until Kloppers arrived.

MR PRINSLOO: And when Commandant Kloppers arrived was there any parade?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: He brought us all to attention. And saluted Commandant Kloppers, we were then placed at ease and Kloppers took over from there.

MR PRINSLOO: Were any instructions given to you? Were you told where to go or what would happen at that point as you saw it?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Mr Kloppers told us that he had come from an order group meeting and that he had received instructions from the General that the time for waiting was over and that the revolution would begin that night. That we were to go out and that he wanted to see corpses.

MR PRINSLOO: This General to whom you are referring who is that?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is General Jappie Oelofse.

MR PRINSLOO: And he was in command of that specific area?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: He was in command of the entire Witwatersrand area.

MR PRINSLOO: Was he familiar to you at that point?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I had met him before on a few occasions but I was not on a first name basis with him. I did not know him that well.

MR PRINSLOO: And at that point in time when an order is referred to did you regard the AWB as a military or a para-military organisation or simply some kind of organisation?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I regarded it more as a military than a para-military organisation because we wanted to begin the war. We went over to war and that is why I regarded it as a military organisation.

MR PRINSLOO: And your conduct on that evening did you regard it as military?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I regarded it as military.

MR PRINSLOO: Was any military discipline applied at that specific point of time and afterwards?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: During the entire evening we moved as a military group.

MR PRINSLOO: How did you regard Commandant Martin and Chief Commandant Kloppers? Did you regard them as superior officers or as friends?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That evening I regarded them as our commanding officers because of the nature of the group in which we were moving.

MR PRINSLOO: Because of your experience in the military?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the meeting at Uncle Harry's Roadside Cafe did you go to a specific place?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: From the cafe we went to Badenhorst's house where we left the vehicles which we were not using and changed the license plates of the vehicles which we would be using. After that we went to Visser's apartment.

MR PRINSLOO: If we can just go back to the cafe, what instruction was issued there?