Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-12

MR WILLS: And then the process of criminal trials took place and ended up with you being now a resident of Westville Prison, is that right?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: In fact you've been convicted for a number of murders, kidnappings etc.

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now we know from your affidavit that you've hurt this community a lot, this community at Mpumalanga?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now what have you got to say - the members of the community are here today?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I do not have a lot to say but I will request from the community of Mpumalanga to accept that when I joined Inkatha, political leaders who were my elders instilled in me evil and I've found it necessary to carry out these acts.  I ask for forgiveness for all the acts that I committed what should be considered those that at the time we were at war but I ask for forgiveness.  That is all I can say.

MR WILLS: Are you sorry for what you've done?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes I am deeply sorry as I am here today, as I've told of all these activities, I have mentioned people's names, people in high places.  I may die, I may be poisoned in prison but I found it necessary to divulge the role that I played in this area and I regret all that I did to this community and I ask for their forgiveness.

MR WILLS: Yes and finally is it also not so that you've helped various investigators including the Goldstone Commission, the South African Police, the Investigative Task Unit into hit squads and political violence in KwaZulu Natal and you've told these authorities everything you know about your involvement in the political violence.  That's even before you got to the Truth Commission, is that correct?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.  In addition I even took the police to the Mkuzi Camp where we found guns, shotguns, 9 mm guns and ammunition and I took them where we used to set off explosives.  I was with Major Scots and Aswegen who was the leader of that unit.  We found a lot of ammunition in cases in Mr Philip Powell's car but he wasn't charged for that.  I do not know what happened to that case.

MR WILLS: Yes and is it not so as a result of that, of you taking the police to this Mkuzi Camp, that that operations in that camp were shut down, the military operations that were going on in that camp were stopped?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes it was closed.

MR WILLS: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee, that's the evidence in chief in this stage of the proceedings.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wills.  Mr Stewart do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR STEWART: No questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Stewart.  Mr Ngubane, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR NGUBANE: Yes Mr Chairman, thank you.

MR NGUBANE: Mr Hlongwane, you say that you were operating in three groups in the Mpumalanga area, is that correct?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And when Daloxholo Lethuli came to Mpumalanga did each and every one of those groups have to report to him either directly or indirectly?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, our group, Teleweni's had no connection with Madla Induna, we reported directly to Zekele Nkethle.

MR NGUBANE: Yes of these three groups, which one or which ones reported to Mr Daloxholo Lethuli?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: The ones from Caprivi.

MR NGUBANE: Do you know whether Nkethle ever reported your activities to Daloxholo Lethuli?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Please repeat the question?

MR NGUBANE: Do you know whether Nkethle, Zekele Nkethle did report your activities to Daloxholo Lethuli?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: He did?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: So in your opinion, some of the incidents which you might not have personal knowledge of might have been the personal knowledge of Daloxholo Lethuli, is it correct?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Were you in Mpumalanga township when there was an official opening of the Hammarsdale Police Station?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No.

MR NGUBANE: That was round about 1989.  Were you not there?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No.

MR NGUBANE: When it was officially opened, did you hear anything about it?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I was already at Mkuzi at that time.

MR NGUBANE: According to your knowledge was Daloxholo at Hammarsdale when the police station was officially opened?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: I will not be able to respond to that question, I do not know.

MR NGUBANE: Did you hear about the massacres that took place during the opening of that police station?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No.

MR NGUBANE: Now you heard yesterday when Mr Khumalo gave evidence that there were schools which were regarded as the UDF strongholds.  Did you also share that knowledge of those schools?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Did you participate in the attacks or in some criminal activities in the name of the hit squads that took place in those schools?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, I was involved.

MR NGUBANE: Let's start with Ukusa High School was it U-k-u-s-a?  Was it one of the schools that was regarded as a UDF stronghold.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Ngubane, could you just repeat the name of that school please?

MR NGUBANE: Ukusa, Mr Chairman.  It's U-k-u-s-a.
	Was it regarded as one of the strongholds of the UDF, Ukusa High School?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Did you participate in the attack of school children in that school?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes at Ukusa and Pezulu.

MR NGUBANE: Do you recall when those incidents took place?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: From '85 to '88.

MR NGUBANE: Were you under any instructions to commit those?  Can you tell us the brief background leading to those attacks of those schools?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: When I got to Las Vegas, Zekele told me that IFP children were being terrorised at these schools.  We had guns and when we approached Ukusa looking for - I think that Masho was at Ukusa and Sgangi at Pezulu.  When we approached all the children ran away from school therefore we were not able to kill the people that we had intended to kill.

MR NGUBANE: I see and as you sit there now can you pinpoint the names of people that were injured or killed or you just injured and killed at random?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Sometimes in my absence I would hear that Bhani and Mashonisa had gone out to attack people but the names that I remember are contained in these documents.

MR NGUBANE: No, I think my question was a little bit open.  I was referring to these specific schools whether you remember any specific people that were injured or you just injured at random?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: In these two schools, the only people who were injured were those that were trying to jump out of the windows but we did not injure anyone.

MR NGUBANE: The school known as - sorry - do you know any lady at Ukusa High by the name of Tokozili Madula who was injured?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, I do not.  I know Mabongi Khlala.

MR NGUBANE: Okay, now let's turn to the incident I asked Mr Khumalo about yesterday, that one of Malangeni area at the cemetary.  It's M-a-l-a-n-g-e-n.  Do you know anything about that incident?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No Sir, I do not know anything about it.

MR NGUBANE: And you have never heard any one of the applicants in this amnesty application discuss anything about it?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, we have never discussed that.

MR NGUBANE: You have referred to a gentleman by the name of Bhani, is that the one and the same person as Banbani?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No, these are two different people.  I do not know anything about Banbani, I instead worked with Bhani.

CHAIRPERSON: Please calm down.

MR NGUBANE: Is it not correct that at one stage you and a gentleman known as Banbani came to a house at D11-31 and you attacked there?  That is the house of Mzwi Zwane and two girls were killed?