Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

WITNESS:   It is true that I do not believe that he could kill himself.  I'm totally not satisfied with that explanation. We do understand your concern and we sympathise with your parents' condition especially your father when he's lost his mind ever since this happened.  We do understand that this has affected you quite drastically.  How are your brothers and sisters?  How are they coping with the tragedy?   ---   They are all trying to support each there and the deceased had two children at the time of his death.  The one is 15 years old and the other one is 9 years old.

MRS GCABASHE: Are they attending school?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are.

MRS GCABASHE: What standard are they in?

WITNESS:   The one who's 15 years old is doing Standard 6 and the 9-year-old is doing Standard 3.

MRS GCABASHE: Who's helping them with their education?

WITNESS:   Yes, I'm the only one who's working so I'm educating them.

MRS GCABASHE: Where's there mother?

WITNESS:   Their mother has since been married.

MRS GCABASHE: You say that they have been affected by this?

WITNESS:  Yes, they have been affected and I cannot actually to everything that they required as growing children.  I cannot maintain them.  I'm not able to.

MRS GCABASHE: As you've already told us please do pass our condolences to your parents.  We shall try by all means to see as to how we should help you but we do not have the power to say that we can help you.  All that we do, we pass the recommendations to the government or the State President who then makes a final decision or a recommendation as to what should be done in such circumstances.  We do believe that you would like to see some psychologist who can help you without having to  pay.  We thank you very much for you presence.  We also thank you for your courage.  We wish that the Lord could help you to continue with your job and continue to maintain a family despite the difficulties that you're facing.  Thanks very much.   I shall hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other comments?

PROF MAGWAZA: I just have two short questions.  Your brother when he was arrested by the police, did he belong to any political organisation.  Was he politically active or do you think the arrest was just for the assault?

WITNESS:   I know that he was a member of the ANC.

PROF MAGWAZA: Was he active as a member of the ANC?

WITNESS:   I could say he was.  He was a sympathizer but I don't believe he was a card-carrying member.

PROF MAGWAZA: Do you think his arrest was associated with him being of the ANC, or a political organisation?

WITNESS:   I have no clarity on that issue.  I cannot comment on it.

PROF MAGWAZA: The last one is, you say you had conflicting evidence about how your brother died.  What's the conflicting evidence?

WITNESS:   The police could not give us one statement as to how my brother committed suicide.  Even the post mortem there was no final report as to how he died.  There is absolutely nothing tangible that we know about my brother's death.  It was just that he committed suicide but here was absolutely no proof that there was anything of that sort.

PROF MAGWAZA: But what did the police actually say to you?  How did he commit suicide?

WITNESS:   The other policeman said  he had used a blanket to kill himself, the other one said the had hanged himself with a part of the blanket that he tore from the blanket.

PROF MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Litabe.  Professor Magwaza just asked the questions which I wanted to ask so that we know whether the case is within the Act, to see if it was politically motivated or it was just a crime caused by the police that is why she's asking you these questions.  Was there any criminal case about your brother's death?

WITNESS:   No, there was no case.  They said we should come with the evidence and submit it to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you very much or coming.  We shall examine the case of your brother and as Mrs Gcabashe's said, we shall make an attempt to see that your requests are channelled through the right channels to the government because we make recommendations.  We can say that here you are a young man who is carrying a heavy load to look after the parents who themselves are traumatised and sick and also to look after your brother's two children.  And I want to comment you for the ubuntu to know that you are also responsible for the children of your brother if your brother is dead.  We commend you for that.  With this model can be copied, specially by the young generation which has become so individualistic.  Thank you very much as it has been said that we have noted all what you've said.  Thanks a lot.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I understand that Magdaline Nelane has also arrived.  No, I mean, we've done that one.  Sangweni.
EXCHANGE OF GREETINGS BETWEEN CHAIRMAN AND WITNESS

CHAIRPERSON: You have come here to tell the story about the death of your son Mandla Simon Sangweni.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Then were want to afford you this opportunity of taking an oath before you tell your sad story.  May you stand up and take an oath that what you are going to say here is true, God being your helper.

MALETSATSI SANGWENI: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much ... (inaudible)

WITNESS:  I also thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Maletsatsi, you live in ... (inaudible) ... in Odendaalsrus, is that true?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How long have you been living in this place?

WITNESS:  I arrived in 1993 on the 21st of October.  I was from Zimbabwe.

CHAIRPERSON: So are you a Zimbabwian?

WITNESS:   I'm not a Zimbabwian.  I was born here and I went to live in Zimbabwe.

CHAIRPERSON: For how long were you in Zimbabwe?

WITNESS:   I left here in 1980.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were in Zimbabwe were you in exile?

WITNESS:  No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you live with your family in Zimbabwe or just yourself?

WITNESS:   It was myself and the family.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us about the composition of your  family?

WITNESS:   I have Maria, Lucky, Prisco, they are all my children.

CHAIRPERSON: How many are they?

WITNESS:   The ones that I'm staying with are three in number but all of them in number, they are five.

CHAIRPERSON: Five in number.  So before your son died you had six children?

WITNESS:   Yes, there were six.

CHAIRPERSON: These five children, are they working already?

WITNESS:   No, they are not working.  Just one of them is working, the daughter.

CHAIRPERSON: How old are they?  Can you give me their years?

WITNESS:   The firstborn was born in 1963 on the 23rd of December.  The second-born was born in 1970 on the 6th of January and she is married.  The third one was born in 1977 on the 31st of December.  The fourth one was born in 1980 on the 4th of September and the fifth one was born in 1982 on the 1st of November.

CHAIRPERSON: When was Mandla born, the one who is deceased?

WITNESS:   He was born in 1967, if I'm not mistaken.  It was in 1967.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you please tell me, the one who was born in 1963, is it a boy or a girl?

WITNESS:   It's a girl.

CHAIRPERSON: And the one in 1970?

WITNESS:   It's a girl.

CHAIRPERSON: 1977?

WITNESS:   It's a girl.

CHAIRPERSON: 1980?

WITNESS:   It's a boy, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: 1982?

WITNESS:   Another boy.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  You are a wonderful parent, you know.  Parents always forget the dates of their children.  They remember the years and maybe the month and they forget about the day.  You just weren't like this with your children.  That is very wonderful.  Now,  are there any of your children who are still in school?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Of course No 2 now, the one born in 1970 is married.  And the 1963 what is she doing?

WITNESS:   She' just doing temporary jobs.