Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Mrs Moloko, thank you, thank you very much for relating something which, as you have said, is very painful to relive those memories and we know that Maki's case was televised all over the world, but we know that gruesome sight, that picture which flashed across the television screens of the body burning and kicked and I do not, I do not really want to ask you many questions because you have, you were very comprehensive in the account that you gave and, as you said, a lot of what we did not know has since come to light.  That we know that the youths were lured to their death by people posing as part of MK, that Joe Mamasela has admitted his involvement, his responsibility and many other members of the Security Police.
 There is only question really which I want to ask and, please, the reason I am asking this is not to appear, in any way, judgemental or as a justification for anything that was done to Maki, but just to assist us because we, what we would like to do is to get to the whole truth.  Now, the rumours that you spoke about, these have also come to our attention, rumours about Maki either having involvement with people who were supposed to be informers or police and even a suggestion of her knowing Joe Mamasela.  Now, this is just to assist us in trying to clarify the issue.  If you can, I would like you just to say something about that, those 
allegations.  If you do not know anything, then that is also fine.

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: I have absolutely no knowledge of those rumours because when we heard that she had been given certain amounts of monies, I knew Maki and I knew her very well, I knew that if she had been given money, I would have realised that as a sister and as a very close person.  Instead she left us with a lot of debts because she had bought her son a bed as well as a radio and these were the debts we were left with to pay off.  There was not any amount of money that we got except for a R5,00 note that we got underneath the pillow.  She did not buy any new clothes, she bought absolutely nothing new to indicate that she had a large sum of money and there were rumours that she had bought a very expensive coat and that coat was a present from Germany when there was an application made for indigent people to be given some clothes and Maki got that coat from those clothes.  I got a dress amongst those clothes.  Even the boots that were rumoured to be very expensive were bought by me and they were worth only R19,00.
 We were hearing rumours that informers have a lot of money, but Maki did not have any.  There is quite a number of rumours as well as lies that were disseminated with regard to my sister.  They said that the Government had bought us the coffin.  We collected our own money in order to conduct the funeral, the Government did not help us in any way.  It is the very first time that I hear Mamasela's name when he appears on TV as well as the media.  The policeman who was allegedly involved with Maki is unknown to me.  When I saw that particular policeman, he had come to arrest Litho Nolo and Litho Nolo was very well known as a 
thief and he was on the wanted list of the police and that policeman who was on duty, he had come to arrest Litho Nolo.  That policeman was not involved with Maki.  I have never seen that policeman sitting, talking or having come to visit Maki.

RUSSELL ALLY: And these rumours and these allegations, when did they really begin?  How long ago before Maki's death or did most of this actually happen after her death or can you give us some idea of the timing of all of these allegations and rumours?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: The rumours started immediately after the youths had died from the explosion of the hand grenades.

RUSSELL ALLY: And before that there had been no allegations, accusations that Maki was in any way involved with the police or an informer, it was only after the deaths?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: That is correct.  It was only after the funeral of the hand grenade victims.  Thereafter, after Maki's funeral there were also rumours that were circulating that we, they had killed the wrong person.  They were supposed to have killed another Maki, that is my neighbour.  That is where the children were killed.  They were coming from Maki's place, that is my neighbour.  That is when the hand grenades exploded and even the house itself or the kitchen was full of blood and the very same Maki who was my neighbour told me that other people came to her and when they went out she came to tell me that she is the one who was supposed to have died instead of my sister.  I said to her if they had killed the wrong person, why do they not leave you alone because even if they kill you for whatever reason, that will never ever make my sister come back.  My sister will not come back to life and whatever they say,
whatever explanations they render thereafter will not help.

RUSSELL ALLY: You said that Maki had a child?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: Yes, she does have a child.

RUSSELL ALLY: And who looks after the child now?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: It is my mother who is looking after the child.

RUSSELL ALLY: We have also heard that your mother is here in the audience.

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: That is true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your mother, we have been told, would also like to make a statement.  So we would actually invite her to meet with our statement takers who, as I said, are at the back in the Administration Block because I do not think she has made a statement before.  Is that correct?  This will be the first time.

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: No, she has not yet given a statement.

RUSSELL ALLY: So if she would also, please, make a statement and, as I have, as indicated to you, we know a lot about this case.  A lot of information has emerged and we are hoping that quite soon, especially when the amnesty applications come in, we can have the complete picture, but I will give you back to the Chairperson now, because maybe there are some others who would like to ask you questions.  Thanks again.

CHAIRPERSON: Sis Joyce.

MRS SEROKE: Puleng, the people who killed Maki, what happened to them thereafter?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: The people who killed Maki were arrested.  That is the people who appeared on the video taking part in the killing, they were convicted, but I do not remember quite well as to what sentences were meted out.  Some got five years, some ten respectively and some got a life sentence,
but all of them are here at the present moment.  They are out.

MRS SEROKE: Do you ever meet these people?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: Yes, I do.

MRS SEROKE: Do you talk?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: Yes, I do talk to some others and I work at a creche and there were two who came to bring their children at that creche and if you bring your child there you are supposed to speak to me.  I am the one who is responsible with regard to admissions and they had brought their children.  I spoke to them as if nothing happened.  We accepted their children and there is nothing amiss.  Everything is just as usual.

MRS SEROKE: Would you like or would you have liked to meet the people who killed your sister so that you can make a channel for reconciliation amongst the family as well as Maki's killers?  Would you appreciate any efforts made by the Truth Commission to bring the two together and you want to know as to who gave the order?  As the TRC, if we could try to arrange a meeting between the two of you, would you appreciate that effort?

EVELINA PULENG MOLOKO: Yes, I would appreciate it.