Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Thabo, in this country it's very obvious that most people who received torture from 1976 mostly up until this time when we received democracy - most of these people were the youth, the youth of this country, and the women.  As we are here in KwaZulu Natal there in Soweto the Commission is sitting there and listening how youth was tortured.  If this makes you feel better, a little bit better, you must know one thing, that you are one of the heroes, and there are also other heroes who are like you who are now sitting at a wheelchair like you.  If this will make you a little bit better you must also know that there are many people who couldn't survive until today.  Few people got shot at the head and still survived.  You are still lucky, but this don't make you not to have hatred.  But we trust that as time goes on you will forget and forgive ... (inaudible) ... thank you.
(Incomplete) ... as one of the people who had been harassed just like in Egypt.  You are known as ... (inaudible) ... Robben Island, where you come from, and you came at a very late stage in your life.  You have come to this commission to relate and tell us about what happened with regard to your harassment.  We shall request you to lift up your right hand and take an oath that all that you are going to say before this Commission shall be the truth.

ANTHONY LODA XABA: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: Good afternoon and welcome to you, Mr Xaba.  The primary thing that you have come to tell us about today is your arrest and detention and torture at the hands of the Special Branch of the South African Police in November 1975.  But just to place your arrest and detention in context, I see from your statement that you were one of the very early groups of people, or you went with one of the first groups of people to Tanzania to undergo military training.  And in fact you and other people who were members of Umkhonto we Sizwe left this country, or attempted to leave this country, in January 1963.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is so.

MR LYSTER: And during the course of your journey to Tanzania that you were arrested by the South African Police, and that you were brought back to Pretoria, and that you were interrogated by members of the Special Branch.  You were tortured and interrogated, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

MR LYSTER: And that thereafter you were sentenced to a period of eight years' imprisonment on Robben Island.

WITNESS:   10 years.

MR LYSTER: 10 years, I beg your pardon.  You were sentenced to a period of 10 years' imprisonment on Robben Island.  Now, just to pick up that story, you were released from Robben Island in July 1973, is that right?

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LYSTER: And could you tell us what happened to you after that?  You said in your statement that you were released in 1973, and the Special Branch again detained you in 1975 under section 6 of the Terrorism Act, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LYSTER: Thank you.  Can I ask you now to related what happened at that stage?

WITNESS:   I was a member of Umkhonto we Sizwe as from 1961, and we were recruits, we had to go to places outside South Africa.  Amongst the reasons that caused me to go was that there was a lot of harassment in 'Maritzburg, especially where I was staying, that is at home.  I discovered that my family was going to be adversely affected by this harassment so I had to leave and go, be a soldier, so that I might be able to come back and fight for my country.  We went.  It was in January 1963 when I went away.  Then in April - that is at the end of February 1963 we were arrested in Northern Rhodesia, the then Northern Rhodesia.  We were taken by the police of that place.  They transported us to Southern Rhodesia. At that time Gaffel Tort(?) was in government, where Sir Roy Welensky was a prime minister of a federation at that time.  They took us from there.  We were in buses and trucks because there was a lot of us who were arrested.  They took us to Beit Bridge.  In Beit Bridge that's where we underwent tremendous torture.  They called us names.  We were interrogated by people who knew us.  There's a lot of torture that we went through at the border.  I remember they put me in a truck, they locked the truck.  There was a dog inside, as well as a policeman.  They said I should tell them who fed me from South Africa up to that place.  We got assaulted up to such time that they took us to Pretoria, where we were sentenced to two years because they said we went out of the country without permission or authorisation.  We were taken to 'Maritzburg.  We were sentenced again here at the Supreme Court.  We were given eight more years besides the two years, so all in all it was 10 years, and we were taken to Robben Island.  Before I go on further to explain, at that time you should remember that there were no laws regarding detention, like the 90 days' detention, 180 detention.  All these laws were made immediately after we had been arrested.  After we had been sentenced they promulgated this law.  At that time they were scared to torture us because our attorneys used to come and see us when we were in detention.  When we got out after 10 years, when I got here in 1973, things had already changed in South Africa.  I arrived at a time where there were strikes, boycotts, especially here in KwaZulu-Natal.  Even though I do use this name, KwaZulu-Natal, it's a very ugly name, it's annoying.  When we got here I went to my place.  They put me under house arrest, that I shouldn't go outside Pietermaritzburg for five years.  I used to go and report to the police station every Monday, and during that time there came Dreyer.  Dreyer called me to the police station.  They told me that I must work together with the new government of the black people.  I told them that I did not know anything about the new government, and I asked them who that was.  They told me it was Gatsha.

MR LYSTER: I had requested you to conduct yourselves in an orderly manner.  Let's not make this Commission imbizo or a rally, because even in imbizo there is some order.  I have requested you just before we started that even though this is not a court of law, but let's accord it the respect that it deserves please.   Please let's not do things that we wouldn't do in a court of law.  Let's pay an amount of respect.  Thank you.