Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-10

WITNESS:  No I can't work because I once had an operation long ago, I had fallen from up the roof so I can't work even now and I have some dependants on the other hand.

MS MAYA:  Are these your children or your siblings?

WITNESS:  They are my own children, I have got two of them.

MS MAYA:  How old are they?

WITNESS:  One is four years old and one is six.

MS MAYA:  Are they at home or are they attending school?

WITNESS:  They are attending school.

MS MAYA:  I'm sure you've got a request or some wish that you would like to forward to this Commission.

WITNESS:  Yes I did make my requests to those people who brought me here.

MS MAYA:  No but you forward your request to us now.

WITNESS:  I'm asking for pension so as to be able to keep these children in school.

MS MAYA:  Is that the only request you have?

WITNESS:  We don't have parents, I am the only one at home.  My mother died and my father died and my request is that if only I could get means to support my siblings because I cannot afford, I'm even hungry, even at this very moment.  We live on selling fish.  I'm now even very worried and hurt about this whole situation.

MS MAYA: We thank you Ntulele.  Can I hand you over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Over to you Mr Ntsebeza.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Did you ever institute any claim or hand this matter to some lawyers?

WITNESS:  Yes I did, to Mike here in town and to a lawyer Van Heerden.  They did give me some money but it was too little and I used it.  The amount was two thousand.  Then I also decided to put up a shack so as to accommodate my children and my family, that is why therefore I feel I need the pension because I did work in Johannesburg some time and I left that work, that is when I got injured here.  So I've got no one to help me.  I'm starving, I must say, so I'm telling the truth that I have got these children and if my sister has not managed to sell anything then we do not have anything to live on.

CHAIRPERSON: Order, order, order please!  Is that all you have to say?

WITNESS:  Yes thank you.  June Crichton?

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 2 - 10 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 12

UNKNOWN: CHEMIST NONTSHINGA [brother]

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Can I call Chemist Nontshinga to the stand please.
CHEMIST NONTSHINGA   Duly sworn states

JUNE CRICHTON: Can you hear me Mr Nontshinga?

WITNESS:  Yes I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Thank you.  Mr Nontshinga I have your statement before me in which you talk about your younger brother who died on the 7th September at the Bisho massacre.  His name was Headman Nontshinga, is that right?

WITNESS:  It's like that, that's true.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Can you tell me how you were informed about his death?

WITNESS:  I got a phone call from home saying that my brother was killed at Bisho and could not go to Frankfort.  I was then asked to look for him.

JUNE CRICHTON:  And where did you?

WITNESS:  I started at Cecilia Makiwane.  From Cecilia Makiwane I went to King William's Town and he was not there.  The next day I saw in a list in The Daily Despatch that was listing the deceased that died at the Bisho massacre.  I then went to West Bank.  When I got there my father was leaving the place where the corpses were and he said that his corpse was there indeed.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Thank you.  You say also in your statement that you never instituted a civil claim at all, is that correct?

WITNESS:  Yes it is so.

JUNE CRICHTON: Have you made statements to anyone in regard to your brother's death?

JUNE CRICHTON: ---  No I never.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Would you like to tell the Commission what it is you would like us to do for you?

WITNESS:  I would like that a compensation be given to my mother and father because they are struggling.  We can't support them fully because we also have our own families.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Did your brother have any family of his own, children?

WITNESS:  No he didn't have any children.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Do you have anything further to say Mr Nontshinga, to the Commission?

WITNESS:  No.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:  Thank you.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you can take leave.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 2 - 10 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 13

UNKNOWN: NTOMBIKAYISE OSCARINE GOLA  [mother]

JUNE CRICHTON: Can I call Ms Gola to the stand please.
NTOMBIKAYISE OSCARINE GOLA   Duly sworn states

JUNE CRICHTON: Good afternoon Ms Gola, can you hear me?

WITNESS:   [indistinct]

JUNE CRICHTON:  In your statement to the Commission you refer to your son, Thobani Gola who participated in the march and died in that march.  Would you tell us how old your son was?

WITNESS:  Thobani was 20 years of age at the time.

JUNE CRICHTON:  And how were you informed about his death Ms Gola?  Take your time, it's all right we will wait for you.

WITNESS:  I felt great pain because he was my child, my only child.  The others were very, very small, two of them.  He was the only older one.  I was educating him so that he could relieve me once he had a profession.  He was in standard eight at Nohow.

JUNE CRICHTON:  I can see that the pain is still very much with you Ms Gola and we empathise with you but we need to move to what your request is because you have given us a tremendous request here which I'd like you to put into words because it is such a lovely request.

WITNESS:  Thobani left a baby.  Please can you educate that child.  As Thobani's mother, could you also help me because I am not working, and educate my two other children.

JUNE CRICHTON:  You added something else that you asked of the Commission that you put into your statement.  Are you able to talk about what you would like the CDF members to do because I think your message to them is an important one and one that we need to hear?

WITNESS:  I went to the attorneys at Berlin.  After that they sent me to a lawyer in Grahamstown.  I had never seen this lawyer before.  From 1993 up to now actually up to January, I was called in.  People were given their moneys but because my name was not in the computer according to them, I was not given any money.

JUNE CRICHTON:  You would like us to investigate that further for you?

WITNESS:  Yes, please investigate.

JUNE CRICHTON:  Would it be all right with you if I read out what you said about the CDF members in your statement, may I read that and then you can tell me whether you agree that it's correctly noted here?

WITNESS:  Yes, please read it for me.

JUNE CRICHTON:  The statement is as follows  I wish all the CDF members of the 7th September 1992 Bisho massacre who participated in the massacre would come forward and identify themselves so that we could talk peace and reconciliation.  Thank you for that.  Is there anything else you wish to say to the Commission Ms Gola?

WITNESS:  I'd forgotten about that part you just read.  Yes I do admit that I did say so but I have nothing further at the moment.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you.  Thank you very much.  I hand her back to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Ntsike?

ADV SANDI: Ms Gola were you there when, were you here when Mr Peter was replying to questions that we asked him?

WITNESS:  Yes I was there.

ADV SANDI: What do you think of his answers?  Is there perhaps something you would like to say in response to the information that he gave.  If there is nothing you would like to say Ms Gola  ... end of Tape 5, side B ...

ADV SANDI:  Is there perhaps something you would like to say in response to the information that he gave?  If there is nothing you would like to say Ms Gola.  Would you like to say something?

WITNESS:  I've heard your questions but I don't want to say anything.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Chair.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 2 - 10 SEPTEMBER 1996