Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

WITNESS:   He was actually running away because he had been attacked by the community

PROF MAGWAZA: You say there were many people who were injured on that day.  You tell us about only one who died which is Matthews Lenong, but you said there were many, many others who were injured.  Do you know what happened to  those people?  Where are they?

WITNESS:   I still do meet some of them.

PROF MAGWAZA: Where is the family of Matthews?  Matthews is the only person who's identified as having died.  Where is his family.  You said - of the person who died.

WITNESS:   Presently I don't know because I'm just from prison so I don't know much.  I don't know whether they're still around or not.

PROF MAGWAZA: You also mentioned that there was an attorney that helped you.  Do you know where - is that attorney still around?  Motsepe.  Is he still around?  Do you know - have details about his office?  Where is he?

WITNESS:   I had his phone numbers.  I still have them even now.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay, probably you could help by leaving the phone numbers.  Was there a court case?

WITNESS:   No, there was never any case.  I went to try and find out and I was told that he could not get money to go on with the case and I could not go on with the case also because I do not have any money.

PROF MAGWAZA: (Inaudible) ... regarding you were shot in the hand twice.  How is your hand now?

WITNESS:   Presently my arm is always painful.  I'm not able to use it.  I can't lift anything that's heavy.  Even the fingers that got injured, they always get cramps and at times they can't be straight.  Even the tablets that I was given, they don't help me.  It shows that my hand still needs to be attended to medically.

PROF MAGWAZA: Where are you getting treatment from and who is paying for the treatment?  Are you paying for the treatment?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was getting treatment from Pilinomi.  Then after that I didn't have any money.  I  stopped taking the treatment.

PROF MAGWAZA: You are an electrician.  I think that's one thing that really impressed me that you made an effort to acquire some skills.  You ended up being an electrician.  Within your condition can you still practise as an electrician?

WITNESS:   I have tried to look for jobs but I've been unsuccessful and each time they look at my hand they realise that I cannot work for long periods of time with my hand.  I always have to get some rest because my fingers don't function properly and they said they would not be able to hire me because of this handicap.

PROF MAGWAZA: What do you think you could do?  What type of work could be better for you?

WITNESS:   Presently I think what I can do is connecting the electric cables.  That's the next best thing that I can do but I can't think of anything else like fitting in tubing and dealing with pipes, tubing the pipes.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your family - we didn't get full information about you family.  Is your wife working?

WITNESS:   We have now separate because she left when I had gone to prison.

PROF MAGWAZA: How many kids do you have?

WITNESS:   I have three kids.

PROF MAGWAZA: And where are the kids?

WITNESS:   They are at home.

PROF MAGWAZA: At home with whom?  Your wife?

WITNESS:   They are with my mother.

PROF MAGWAZA: With your mother.  Who's supporting you now, now that you're out of prison?

WITNESS:   After I got released I usually go to my mother's place and she's having people who are leasing the property and she usually helps me with the funds. Okay, thank you very much, Sipho.  I see a lot of hope in your life.  I think you are still young.  You have a skill.  There are things you cannot do but I think there are also lots of things that you can do to start your life again.  And we'll take note of what you have said and some of the things we can try to see what we can do about them as soon as possible especially related to medical field, to your physical condition but I think the important thing is that even though your hand was injured, it would help is you could be assisted to find some job, some light job that you can do because you are still very young.  I will not like to get some information from Joseph.

JOSEPH MOGATLE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

PROF MAGWAZA: Joseph, you were involved in the same situation with Sipho.  Yes, we have had the full story from Sipho on what happened that day.  Probably you could just help us briefly to tell us about your injuries because you were also injured.  Just tell us about your injuries.  I have your statement here as well.

WITNESS:   I was shot with four bullets.  There are certain bullets which were left lodged in my body, that is two.  I was sent to Pilinomi Hospital and they extracted one bullet from my leg and there's on in my thigh in my waist.  They told me that I had to go to Baragwanath because that's where they'll be able to extract the bullet.  But I wasn't able to go to Baragwanath Hospital because I'm working.  I'm employed and I would not be able to leave my job and go to Baragwanath especially because I wasn't injured at  work.  And presently I'm at home and I do go to work on certain days but my health has deteriorated because of the bullet that's lodged in my waist.

PROF MAGWAZA: According to your statement you were in hospital for six months.

WITNESS:   That is true.

PROF MAGWAZA: You say your state of health has deteriorated.  What do you mean?  What has happened?

WITNESS:   This bullet that's lodged in my waist gives me problems because I'm always going to the X-rays and I have a problem walking.  I always have to go for check-up and where the bullet is lodged there's always rust settling in and it's becoming bigger and bigger.  That is the problem that I have.

PROF MAGWAZA: In your statement you refer to Dr Storm who refused to treat you.  Where is Dr Storm now?

WITNESS:   He's still present in Theunissen.

PROF MAGWAZA: You have a full address of where he is?

WITNESS:   I don't know his address but I know where he's practising.

PROF MAGWAZA: Then you also mentioned your neighbour who was sort of a witness, Motlalento.  Where is you neighbour now?

WITNESS:   He's also still present and I'm working with him.  He's the one who actually helped me when I was in this problem because there was nobody who was helping me.  When I ran out of the location he's the one who helped me to get medical attention because I had this plaster of Paris and I had crutches.  When I was screaming for people to help me, he's the one who came to help me when I was screaming in pain.  He came running and he discovered that I have been injured.  Then he took me to get some medical attention.  He was scared and said and he said he couldn't go to the hospital at night but he  went to my boss, my employer, and reported that I had been injured.  And he went to fetch the police.  He came back with the police then and they took me to the police station and at the police station I think I was unconscious or confused, I didn't know what was happening at that stage.  And they took me to this doctor who said that I should be put at the storeroom because I was going to make his surgery dirty and I was placed in the storeroom and I regained my consciousness at Pilinomi.

PROF MAGWAZA: Could you tell us something about your family?  Your family, Joseph.

WITNESS:   I have a wife and two kids.  I don't have parents but I do have a grandmother - my father's mother.  She's the one I'm staying with at home.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your wife, is she working?

WITNESS:   She's not working.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your two kids, how old are they?

WITNESS:   My firstborn was born in 1988 on the 17th of January.  My second-born was born in 1994 on the 18th of February.