Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1999-12-13

MR LAX: Isn't it rather a question that those suspicions were confirmed when he expressed those opinions at the meeting?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: He is the one who disturbed the meeting.

MR LAX: Well let me give you what ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before my friend goes on, are you now insisting that before what happened at the meeting there was no suspicion about this man, no feeling that he was IFP, nothing of that nature, none of that existed before?  Is that what you're telling us?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Prior to the meeting he was not suspected of being an IFP member.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR LAX: Let me refer you to page 3 of your application, and if you read it, if you look at the fourth line
"The two deceased, we questioned them about their relationship with Ngobo."

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, they were questioned.
MR LAX
"They said Ngobo was giving them guns and muti to kill the comrades of the ANC."
That's not what you've told us today.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: They did say that.

MR LAX: Earlier when your lawyer asked you
"What was the man going to do with the gun, what did he say he was to do with the gun", "It was just for his own use, it was for his protection, not to kill the comrades."
	The question of the muti was for his own protection, not to kill the comrades.  Your lawyer specially asked you that question and I remember the answer clearly.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I mentioned in my statement that he said the firearm was just his and that is what he said at the meeting, that the firearm was just him, it belonged to him.

MR LAX: Well then why did you write in your amnesty application that he said
"Ngobo gave them the guns and muti to kill the comrades of the ANC in the area."
It's written there, I promise you I'm not misleading you, it's written there.  I'm reading it from your own words in your application.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I wrote that way because we discovered one firearm at his home and he said he had received in from Mr Ngobo.

MR LAX: You see in your application form you then say that after this you told the various members to go and look for the gun and they brought it back to the meeting, only after this do you send them to go and look for the gun, according to your application.  Do you see my difficulty?  And you see it's only after they bring back the gun that you then tell the people to kill them.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes.

MR LAX: Now that's not the same version you give in your affidavit and it's different to what you've said here today in your evidence.  This affidavit at page 14 to 16.  Yes no, we've been told by the Evidence Leader that it has been signed.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it attested to?

MS PATEL: It was Honourable Chairperson, apparently by a certain Mr J M Govender at the Durban Prison.  It came in after the bundle was in fact compiled.

MR LAX: No you did mention that earlier, that's why I was calling it an affidavit.  Can you explain any of these or give us a reason why all these irregularities are here in your version.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I do not know how those irregularities occurred because I explained how the 10 people were sent out to his home and on their return he was assaulted and later killed.

MR LAX: Yes.  Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: This statement that you've been shown a copy of, did you make it to somebody who wrote it down?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they ever read it back to you after they had written it down?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes it was, although the person was in a hurry.

CHAIRPERSON: And you signed it some time later, almost a month later after it had been typed.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That's correct.

MR PANDAY: Sorry Mr Chairman, whilst on that point Mr Chairman, with the taking down of the affidavit.
	Mr Majola, the person that helped you make the statement, did they converse with you in Zulu or English?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: In English.

MR PANDAY: And were you able to understand all of what was being asked of you?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Well I attempted to understand as best as I could.

MR PANDAY: Did you know who the person was, or do you know who the person was?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: You know Ms Quinn or Mrs Quinn, I don't know.

MR PANDAY: Did Ms Quinn not have an interpreter with her present?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: She was alone.

MR PANDAY: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

ADV SIGODI: How far did you go at school, what is your standard of education?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Standard eight.

ADV SIGODI: Did you pass standard eight?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes.

ADV SIGODI: And this application form, the TRC form, did you fill it in yourself?  Is it your handwriting, the one on pages 1, 2 ...(intervention)

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: There are two forms that I filled.

CHAIRPERSON: His attorney is now showing him the form referred to, page 1 of the bundle.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, I did.

ADV SIGODI: And were you sure that you understood each and every question in the form?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I tried to understand.

ADV SIGODI: Did you get any assistance when you were filing in the form, was there anybody assisting you?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No.

ADV SIGODI: Okay, thank you.  No further questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination?

MR PANDAY: None, Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR PANDAY

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any further evidence?

MR PANDAY: No, Mr Chairman, that is the applicant's evidence.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, the families of the victims will not be coming forward to give evidence either.

CHAIRPERSON: And you're not calling anybody else?

UNKNOWN: No.

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson, I do not intend calling any witnesses either, thank you.
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CHAIRPERSON: ... ask you one more to see if you can help us with one matter.
	Mr Majola, we have been given an affidavit by a Mr Buthelezi who was in the Detective Branch of the Police Force, who said that he arrived on the scene and found the body of a man there with multiple stab wounds and gunshot wounds as well.  That was the body of Oswald.  He says you were there talking to soldiers at the time, is that correct, do you remember that occasion?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there a lot of stab wounds on the body of Oswald, had people stabbed him after he was shot or before he was shot?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I do not recall Oswald being stabbed, I only know that he was shot.  The other one, Mavis, was killed at a different spot.

CHAIRPERSON: And it seems from Mr Buthelezi's affidavit that on the same day as he fetched Oswald's body he fetched Mavis's body and he made you lift up the two bodies and put them into the back of the mortuary van.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, he did that.

MR PANDAY: And he also says that you were assaulted at the scene by some of the policemen who were there, they assaulted you with sticks.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And that some of the other people who were arrested were assaulted again at the police station.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And he also confirms that you were forced to eat flesh of the deceased'.  Do you agree with that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And Mr Buthelezi says that at the scene he was able to establish that the deceased' had been killed because they were Inkatha members.  Did you hear him asking people?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, he did say that.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
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WITNESS EXCUSED