Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

CHARITY KONDILE: But what I'm trying to say is that even before I read in the New Nation, there had been the Harms Commission sitting, where Sizwe's case was presented by Mr Skweya the advocate, even when Dirk Coetzee was in London he testified even on this case.

MR NTSEBEZA: What in essence, as you understand it, was the testimony of Dirk Coetzee, and the account that was given in the newspapers about his disappearance? What was said happened?

CHARITY KONDILE: In the New Nation it was said that Sizwe is one of those who did not return because he had been so tortured at Jeffries Bay, to the extent that he had had brain haemorrhage, this is the New Nation article.  He had brain haemorrhage, and when the cops who detained him, took him to the Jeffries Bay doctor, who later refused to testify at the Harms Commission, this doctor said, "This is another Steve Biko case", so he advised the policemen that this could have very serious implications for South Africa. So this article therefore was saying that the cops therefore tried to dispose of this body secretly and burn it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is it true that that same story was reported in two other Western Cape newspapers?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes, the Daily Despatch and the Eastern Province Herald.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now after the publication of those articles, is not so that Dirk Coetzee also confirmed while he was in exile, the essence of those stories.  Have you comments on these articles?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes, Dirk Coetzee also confirmed the essence of those articles, and to add to that, there is a typed statement, the affidavit is in front of you Sir, where Dirk
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Coetzee is relating this incident.

MR NTSEBEZA: What do you understand him to be saying?

CHARITY KONDILE: I understand him to say that he first saw this young man at Jeffries Bay, his leg was tied to an iron bed, and therefore what surprises me is that he further says he jumped out of the window, his hands had been tied to this iron bed and he said he jumped out of the window.  I don't understand how he could jump out of the window.  I cannot read Afrikaans but this is what I understand.  Well Dirk Coetzee testified that they took him to this doctor, who said what I've already said about the Steve Biko case, that they took him to Komatiepoort where he gave him poison drops, but he didn't die immediately from these poison drops, somebody had to shoot him, and then he died.
 Well Dirk Coetzee goes on further to say that when he died, they put his body on a pile of wood with a tyre near the Komatiepoort River at night, where it took them nine hours to burn his body.  Dirk Coetzee further states that twice they were burning his body, the flesh was smelling good, and they were having beers at that time. So it was like a braai to them.
 As a mother I feel that, no matter whether it was politics, fighting for his land, I don't think he deserved all that treatment, I feel it was grossly inhuman, I feel if they could have killed him and gave us the body or left it in the veld there, I feel that this was tantamount to cannibalism, or even Satanism.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did Dirk Coetzee say about the car?

CHARITY KONDILE: Well I must say that whilst I was in Maseru, I went to the refugee offices on that Monday, and the people there told me that they did not want to say anything to me
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until I had met with his colleagues, these people have reported that Sizwe had stolen their car, whereas in Chris Hani's affidavit, Sizwe had been lent this car by Chris Hani, which he had testified himself under oath.  So there was a policeman who came to the refugee offices and told me that, the policemen in Lesotho had discovered this car on the Swaziland border with this registration number, A91..., it's there in the affidavit, and Dirk Coetzee also confirmed what this policeman had told me that they had left Sizwe's car on the Swaziland border.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now all of a sudden, almost after a decade after your son had disappeared, after a lot of accusations and counter accusations, confusion sown by the police, it appeared that what you had said to his comrades in Lesotho has been confirmed, by independent sources, namely that he had been kidnapped by the police.  Did you have an opportunity to speak to anyone who was high ranking in the ANC after these revelations which seemed to exonerate your son?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes, I did this, after all that you have spoken about. I got hold of the late Mr Chris Hani's telephone number, and I telephoned the SACP offices in Johannesburg, and I was answered on the first day by Mr Charles Mapula.  On the second day Mr Chris Hani himself was there.  Chris was very friendly on that day, he even said, "Mrs Kondile, we have finally established that your son has been kidnapped, we are very sorry about everything."  That was just about a month before he died, and Mr Hani said to me, "Mrs Kondile, if there should be a memorial service for Sizwe, I shall be very happy to come down and speak on behalf of the ANC".  Those were our parting words.
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MR NTSEBEZA: Did that take place?

CHARITY KONDILE: No, unfortunately, Mr Hani died.

MR NTSEBEZA: And for the record, Mr Hani, as the World knows, was murdered in Boksburg where he stays, do you know that? (end of tape 14)
(start of tape 15)

CHARITY KONDILE: ....to keep his house when he was away on different missions.

MR NTSEBEZA: We should allow Vusi to tell us that story.  You called him all the way from Cape Town to tell the story ...(indistinct).Now who is Lindiwe Kondile.

CHARITY KONDILE: Lindiwe is one of the siblings, Sizwe's sister.

MR NTSEBEZA: How has the disappearance and the murder of he brother affected her.

CHARITY KONDILE: Lindiwe and Sizwe have been very close, we're very closely placed, Lindiwe never reconciled, she never accepted the fact that her brother's been killed.  Until recently, she suffered from depressive psychosis, which the doctors at the hospital referred to as some depression that has been bottled up for a long time, and I feel that this should have been the result of all that she has been bottling up for all these years.

MR NTSEBEZA: Mtetelele Kondile, who is that?

CHARITY KONDILE: He is the sibling who was born after my second born child.  I have mentioned earlier that during the Fort Hare uprising, Sizwe was together with Mtetelele at Fort Hare, they both suffered harassment from the South African Police.  I also mentioned that they went back home and left school and wrote letters to the effect that they would not be returning to Fort Hare.  Now at this time we
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noticed that Mtetelele was behaving abnormally, but it was not a serious matter, until one day, when he was playing a rugby match, he was knocked and then this disorder manifested itself, and from all the scans there was nothing wrong from that kick, there was no haemorrhage, but ever since that kick at the rugby match, Mtetelele has never recovered.  And it became worse when his brother left the country, it even became worse when the news of his murder came.  He should have been here to give some evidence about what happened to them at Fort Hare, but he has refused, he was at some place where we were briefed, but he slept for the whole day when he came back, I could see that I should not burden him any further with it.
 He has recently received a money grant for this disability only for two months. After all those years, since 1980, he has been dependant on us.  When we send him to school, if he takes a job, he becomes ill again.  I would say that he is one of the siblings who has been most affected because they went to school together, they were always together.