Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: So after you had been told that your son was not in all these police stations what did you do?

WITNESS:   My husband telephoned the Police File to ask them as to whether have they seen somebody like him, and then he even went to the newspapers to find out as to whether have they heard about somebody like him.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And then what happened?

WITNESS:   After that we were going places to places, and even at Orkney we did go, and then even at Huma(?) we didn't get any trace of him.

KHANTSE NIKELO: All this happened in 1986.

WITNESS:   That's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: So there was no other investigation which was done about your son apart from going to the - going searching from place to place.

WITNESS:   My mother did go to the place and try to search, but he was not found anywhere.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Was he the only one who disappeared among the Comrades?

WITNESS:   I only know that he's the only one who has disappeared.  There are those who returned, those who were arrested with him, but I am not quite sure as to whether there was another person who disappeared.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Those who were arrested with him, did you ever make an attempt to find from them what happened to your son?

WITNESS:   I asked only Lekhowa, but he didn't give me an answer.  He just said he doesn't know, but he's his best friend.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Lekhowa was his best friend and he does not know what happened to him?

WITNESS:   He was his friend, and wherever he go - wherever they would go they were always together.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And you say that Lekhowa lives in Sasolville.

WITNESS:  Yes, he stays at Sasolville.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Mama, how has this affected you and your family, the loss of your son?  I mean physically, mentally, emotionally how has this affected you?

WITNESS:   I am not able to forget him.  Maybe he is still alive.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Take your time, Mama, take your time.  We understand your pain.  How is your health?

WITNESS:   I am not feeling well.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Can you say more than that?

WITNESS:   I don't sleep at night.  I keep on remembering him every day and every night.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is that all?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's all, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: How is the health of your husband?

WITNESS:   He is a person who is ill all the time, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Did he become ill after the loss of your son?

WITNESS:  He is a person who seems he has lost his mind, and we used to take him to doctors.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What did the doctors say?

WITNESS:   They were saying he was having nervous problems.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is he getting any treatment?

WITNESS:   Yes, he has taken treatment, and it seems he is now having a cardiac problem and he has been treated for that.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Who is paying for his medical expenses?

WITNESS:   That's me, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is he treated in the hospital or by a private doctor?

WITNESS:   At the time when he was working he used to go to the surgeries, but now he goes to the hospital.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Does he pay in the hospital?

WITNESS:   Yes, we pay at the hospital.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What hospital is that?

WITNESS:   That's Klerksdorp Hospital.  Then he went to the local hospital.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What is the name of the local hospital?

WITNESS:   Buwidumela Hospital and Voortrekker Hospital.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What about the other members of the family, your children, are they well?

WITNESS:   Yes, the eldest one is not feeling well.  Then the second one who is 17 years old is suffering from eyesight.  The last one is suffering from chest problem.  The eldest one is suffering from nervous problems, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: (Inaudible) ... the death of their brother?

WITNESS:   I think so, because all the time they are speaking of him. Sabina, we really feel for you and your family very much indeed.  This is tragic to have a child taken by the police, and the reason is not clear why he was picked up with the other Comrades, and when the other Comrades came back your son did not come back.  The tragedy too lies in the fact that it was alleged that he was taken to certain police stations, which seem to deny his every being there.  So this becomes a mystery of the mysteries.  Your request, you have asked that the Truth Commission should try to help you to find you child, and it is a legitimate request.  And I know that you have not lost the hope that your son - you have just said yourself that you still believe that your son may be alive somewhere.  It is always good to have hope.  We shall endeavour by all means, as the Truth Commission, to touch these three police stations in Orkney, Klerksdorp and Stilfontein, and investigate what happened to your son.  And again I think the person who may be able to help us is Lekhowa, his best friend, who was with him all the time, and was with him ... (inaudible) ... now I want the other members of the Committee if they have got any questions to pose.

MR DLAMINI: Ma'am Sabina, would you remember the day and the month in 1986 when your son disappeared, so that we are able to come with the specific information that will help to try and trace your son's whereabouts?

WITNESS:   I don't remember the day, but at that time when they were arrested I think it was during Easter when they were arrested, but I don't remember the exact date.

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible - end of Side A, Tape 1) ... not to know what has happened.  On the statement you did say that your mother did try to investigate.  Is your mother still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, she's still alive.

UNKNOWN: What is her name?

WITNESS:   It's Selina, Selina Makume.

UNKNOWN: Where does she stay?

WITNESS:   2388 Pumulong Township.

UNKNOWN: I thank you.  I hope that maybe we will be able to help you.

UNKNOWN: As I have just said, Sabina, thank you very much for coming to tell your sad story.  We shall try all we can do to assist you to find out where your son is, and we give our love and best wishes to your family, to your husband, to your other children who are not here.  We are with you, we are supporting you during these difficult times.  Thank you very much, Mama.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... Dumelani, are you well?   INTERPRETER:   Yes, we are well, and how are you?

COMMISSIONER: Who is Elisa Makaya Mntuze among you?

ELISA MAKAYA MNTUZE AND ABRAHAM MNTUZE: That's me.

COMMISSIONER: And who is the other gentleman?

ELISA MAKAYA MNTUZE AND ABRAHAM MNTUZE: That's my husband.  That's my husband, Sir.

COMMISSIONER: What is his name?

ELISA MAKAYA MNTUZE AND ABRAHAM MNTUZE: Abraham Mntuze.

COMMISSIONER: Will he also be telling the story, helping you?

ELISA MAKAYA MNTUZE AND ABRAHAM MNTUZE: Where I forget he will fill me up.

COMMISSIONER: Before you tell your stories can you, Elisa, stand up to take an oath that what you are going to say is the truth and only the truth.

ELISA MAKAYA MNTUZE AND ABRAHAM MNTUZE: (Sworn, State)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you for coming here to tell the story pertaining to Pinda Vincent Mntuze, one of your beloved ones.

WITNESS:   We thank you, Sir.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Virginia Gcabashe is going to help you in the process of telling your story.  I now hand over to her.

UNKNOWN: We greet you, Mntuze family.  Are you fine this morning?

WITNESS:   Yes, we are fine and quite well.

UNKNOWN: Mrs Mntuze and Mr Mntuze, you have already given us a brief background as to where you stay, being No 292 Sikela Street, Pumulong, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: You came here because you lost your son, Pinda Vincent Mntuze.

WITNESS:   That is correct.