Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

DR RANDERA: Ms Lebelwane would you please stand and take the oath.

MS LEBELWANE: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Mrs Labelwane I will be the person who will be leading you in telling your story.  And I would like you please to take your time and tell us in your own words what happened to your son, Victor. Thank you.

MS LEBELWANE: It was on the 4th August, 1992.   Around seven I sent a child to the store to go buy salt.  He just left for quite some time and I was wandering why was he was not coming back.  And why I was still wandering some other child also came to tell me that the child was being beaten by the police.  And they actually took him away to the police station at Motswedi.
 I went to the store to ask what did the child do at the store?   When I got inside the store they told me there was nothing he did at the store.  And I left the store, I went to the phone.   I was with another person when I was going to the phone.  
 When I phoned he asked who was there?    I asked as to who took Victor and they said Victor is not there.  Victor was taken into the car to grounds nearby.
 Then we left for the ground to see where the child was.  When we got there they actually blocked me so I could not 
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see anything.  There were other four people who actually took me home.
 Whilst I was at home, wandering what could be done they came in to tell me that the child has died.  
 On that day at night I don't know exactly what happened but people came by.  On the 15th I saw that the child in the coffin, I saw some marks on his forehead.  And I didn't know exactly why, what was the cause, what happened.
 Then we buried the child.  When we got back from the cemetery the police sprayed teargas on us.  It was just confusion going on.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Lebelwane, is there anything else you want to say?

MS LEBELWANE: For me to have peace I want to know why they killed my child.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Lebelwane, I just want to ask you a few more questions, so that we can understand a little clearer as to what happened.
 You say, your child - how old was Victor when this happened?

MS LEBELWANE: He was 16 years old.

DR RANDERA: And he was still going to school?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, he was in standard eight at school.

DR RANDERA: Do you have any other children?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, I have two other children, one is 26 years old and the other is 11 years old.

DR RANDERA: And your husband, is he alive?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, he is still alive.

DR RANDERA: Was Victor involved in any political organizations or political work?
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MS LEBELWANE: No, he was not active in any political organization.  That is why the people who saw him wearing an ANC T-shirt said he took part in politics, but he was only involved in church activities.

DR RANDERA: Can you tell us, at the time of Victor's death was there anything else going on in your area.   That the police happened to be in your area, was it by shear  coincidence?

MS LEBELWANE: No, there were no unrest going on.  He just died.  Nothing went on in our location.

DR RANDERA: When you went to fetch Victor's body, this was eight days after he was killed, what did the police say to you?

MS LEBELWANE: On the day that they killed him, it was on the 4th, the police came at night to tell me that my child was dead.   The father - I was away at work.  On Wednesday he came back and Victor died on Tuesday.  He is the one who actually went and see him, to identify him at the mortuary.  I just saw him in the coffin, I didn't go to the mortuary.

DR RANDERA: What was the story that was told to your husband as to what happened to Victor?

MS LEBELWANE: They don't know why they killed him.  They never explained to my husband why they killed him.

DR RANDERA: Did you go and report it to the police and made a case of it?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, I did that.

DR RANDERA: Was there an inquest held.

MS LEBELWANE: When they went to court, they never told me.  They only took other people but they never informed me about
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going to court.  Only later I heard that the case was dropped.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Lebelwane, what are your expectations from the Truth Commission?

MS LEBELWANE: I don't really know what to ask from the Commission.

DR RANDERA: Thank your, Mrs Lebelwane, I have no other questions.

THOMAS MANTHATA: In your statement you told us the police from their Criminal Investigation Department were in your area.  Therefore, I would like to know, whether in your area at home, were there any other shops that were attacked, or were the things that were stolen the cause that the police from the Criminal Investigation Department were in your area.

MS LEBELWANE: No, I never heard about that during those days.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mam, you said that your child took part in church activities, not political activities.

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, I said so.

THOMAS MANTHATA: During that time it was very difficult to differentiate between the church service and the youth activities.  One would never know which activities were political and which activities were falling under the church, because the church choirs were also singing freedom songs.  Therefore, I would like to know when you say this child did not take part in political activities - will you explain to us why you said that.

MS LEBELWANE: No, he never took part in politics.  I only knew about the youth organization from the Lutheran Church, that he was a member of.
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THOMAS MANTHATA: Didn't the Reverend of the Lutheran Church tell you whether these children were conducting their activities?

MS LEBELWANE: No, the Reverend never told me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Coming to the ANC T-shirt that you talked about.  Where did the child receive the T-shirt from?

MS LEBELWANE: He never had this T-shirt.  He didn't wear it, but only because the police knew that the ANC was liked by them they therefore said that he was wearing the T-shirt.   He was only from school and he was still in school uniform.  And when I sent him to the shop he was still in his khaki pants.
 They were using the ANC T-shirt as a scapegoat and he didn't have it really.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The problem here now is which policemen were there.  Are they Security Police, or were they the police from the Criminal Investigation Department?  Therefore, we won't be able to know whether this case belongs to us or whether it is a case of theft.

MS LEBELWANE: By that time they said they were the CID, who I don't know there whereabouts.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Lebelwane, in your statement you say your son was in the company of a friend, Taele when the incident took place.  Do you know what the whereabouts of Taele is?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, I know.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have an address where we can reach him, because he perhaps might shed more light?

MS LEBELWANE: At that time when Taele was with my child at the shop, they were attacked together and they were having their own conversation, but I do not know what they were
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were talking about, because I wasn't present, but Taela was the one who explained to me how my child was assaulted and how he was taken by the van.  And Taela said he escaped, he is still at home.

CHAIRPERSON: They took only your son away?

MS LEBELWANE: Yes, Taela was able to escape.

CHAIRPERSON: You also say in your statement that when you phoned the Motswedi Police Station you spoke to a policeman who said that Patrick told this policeman that your son had fallen from the van.  Do you know what the name of that policeman was you originally spoke to?

MS LEBELWANE: No, I don't know his name.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MS SEROKE: Madam, when they saying the child died, was there any post-mortem  that was conducted, so we could know what killed him?