Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

CHAIRPERSON: No just, just don't put it like that. He says it was done by mistake. Let's just get some more details about where this was done, how it was done?
	You said that you were coming from a meeting, where was this meeting?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The meeting was Ensingweni where our IFP president was.

CHAIRPERSON: And what happened when you were coming from this meeting?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was about 4 pm  when we came back.  We were in the bus and they through bottles at our bus.  I then pursued him and asked him why they threw bottles at our bus.  I then stabbed him with a knife.  Muhle Mthethwa then came there and shot him with pellets on his eye.  I am the one who stabbed him.

CHAIRPERSON: Just give me that name again, Muhle who?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Muhle Mthethwa.

MR ALBERTS: Did you see Mr Kanyele at the shops?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I saw him.

MR ALBERTS: And with who was he or who was with him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They were four, sitting near the bottle store, drinking some beer.  The other three managed to run away.

MR ALBERTS: Did they first throw bottles at your vehicle?

CHAIRPERSON: No, no.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They threw bottles at a bus. They did not throw stones.  They had beer bottles.

CHAIRPERSON: The bus they threw bottles and stones at a bus.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They threw them at a bus.

MR ALBERTS: And where were the bottles thrown at or what?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: (... no English translation)

MR ALBERTS: What bus are we talking about now?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The bus was carrying IFP supporters.

MR ALBERTS: And where were you at that time?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was there.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know why stones were thrown at the bus, bottles?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I know why they were throwing bottles at our bus.

MR ALBERTS: Why is that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It is because many IFP supporters were not in the area.  They had attended this conference we were coming from.  Because they are ANC members, they attack our bus.

CHAIRPERSON: So because they didn't attend the rally you regarded them as ANC members?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He could not have sat there with ANC members if he was not a member.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but then there were four of them?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I did not know them, but I knew one of them as a resident in the location.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't even know them?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We did not think that they were ANC supporters.  We knew they were.  The only person we did not know was the deceased because he was sitting with them, we thought he was also one of them.

CHAIRPERSON: And because they didn't attend the rally you took it for granted that they were all ANC?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They were wearing ANC T-shirts.

MR ALBERTS: Apart from them being with ANC members and not attending the rally, is there anything else that gave you the impression that he was an ANC member?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They were wearing ANC T-shirts.

CHAIRPERSON: On that day?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: And who started throwing the bottles?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Khanyile started throwing stones.

MR ALBERTS: And did you people get off the bus?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Did you get off while the bottles were being thrown or only afterwards?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We got off at that time.

MR MALAN: May we hear the interpreters?

CHAIRPERSON: What did he say?

MR ALBERTS: Yes and what did you do when you got off the bus?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We got off, I grabbed him and stabbed him.  Muhle then came there and shot him.

MR ALBERTS: When you got off the bus and stabbed him what was Mr Khanyile doing at that time?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was running away but one could see he still wanted to come back and fulfil what he wanted to do.  I then stabbed him.

MR ALBERTS: So do I understand you correctly there was no planning done before this incident, it happened on the spur of the moment?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: And what is the reason for killing or stabbing Mr Khanyile?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The reason why I stabbed him is because he was throwing stones at our bus.  I then pursued them when they were running away and I managed to catch him and then stabbed him on his shoulder with a knife.  He tried to run away again ...[intervention]

MR ALBERTS: Were you with this other person who eventually shot Mr Khanyile at the time when he was shot?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Many people followed me when I got off the bus, but the person who shot him was Muhle.

MR ALBERTS: You also mentioned in a statement ...(intervention)

MR MALAN: Just before you proceed.
	Did you leave the body of Mr Khanyile there?  Did any of the other members go to the body?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There were KwaZulu Police on that day.  Mr Khanyile's body was then taken to the mortuary by the police.

MR MALAN: Did this attack on Khanyile happen in the presence of the police?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: Were you arrested there?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Nobody was arrested.

MR MALAN: Did the police just allow you to leave?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, that is true.

MR MALAN: And you say they saw the killing?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, they did see when he was shot.

MR MALAN: When you started to give evidence on this incident you referred to the four people sitting on the stoep or sitting at the shops with their case of beer drinking beer and you said you did not know any of them. You also then already said it was a mistake, but when you were questioned you said you knew three of them.  Do you have the names of the other three for us?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I know the first person as Peter Dludla.  The other one is Dube, I do not know his first name.  He was a special constable in the Police Service.

MR MALAN: And the third one?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The third one was Mvana Biyela.

MR MALAN: Did you know them to be ANC members?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Even the man who was a special constable, Dube?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, he is a special constable in the police service.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought that special constables were taken and picked on amongst the Inkatha supporters.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It is true that the special constables were IFP supporters.  Dube joined before this happened.  After he was appointed as such, he then showed his true colours that he was an ANC supporter.

MR MALAN: Was he on duty that afternoon?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was sitting at his house.  He was from Ulundi, I think.

MR MALAN: Did he wear a uniform?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, he was not wearing a uniform.

MR ALBERTS: I see in your initial application you give the name of Ngoso Dludla and Bonginkosi Khanyile as being the same person, is that correct? Is that the same person?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: You mean Dludla.

CHAIRPERSON: Where are you reading from, just read it please?

MR ALBERTS: Page 2 of your application form.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes what does it say there?

MR ALBERTS: At number 4, third person Ngoso Dludla also known as Bonginkosi Khanyile.
	Is that the same person?

CHAIRPERSON: Let him have a look at that application form please.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mr Dludla is someone else.

MR ALBERTS: Why I am asking the question is, in your statement that was added to your application for amnesty you also make mention of an incident where Ngoso Dludla was killed while you were out of town.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I have not mentioned Ngoso Dludla yet.

MR MALAN: That application form that you have before you is that your handwriting, did you fill that in or who did it for you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: This is not my handwriting.

CHAIRPERSON: Whose handwriting is it?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It is the handwriting of the policeman who came to take statements.

CHAIRPERSON: And all the information was given to him by you?