Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Sabina, how are you?

KHANTSE NIKELO: Yes, I am all right.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you for coming here to tell the sad story about the disappearance of your son, Christopher Thelo Nikelo.  We know it must be very painful, and we are not surprised that you are so moved emotionally.  It has to happen when you don't know where your son is.  So you just take your time, we are not going to rush you.  If you want to drink water take a sip.  (Pause)  Sabina, is it true that you live in 7291 in Constant(?) here in Kroonstad?

KHANTSE NIKELO: True.  Yes, that's true.

COMMISSIONER: Can you please give us a picturesque of your family, a diagram of your family - whether you have a husband, and how many children do you have, how old are they, where are they, etcetera, so that we can have a picture of your family?  Before we do that you need to take an oath.  I am sorry.

KHANTSE NIKELO: (Sworn, States)

KHANTSE NIKELO: (Inaudible) ... picture of your family, that we can just know roughly what type of family you have - father, children, etcetera.

WITNESS:   Yes, I have a husband, I have children.  All of them are still at home except the elder one, who has disappeared.  The first one is 22 years, the other one is 17 years and the other one is 11 years.

KHANTSE NIKELO: We had a problem with the translation.  Can you just begin - I hear now.

WITNESS:   I have a husband, I have children.  They were five.  The eldest one was 30 years.  The other one is the one who has disappeared.  Then come another one who 22 years, then the other one is 17 years  old, then the last-born, who is 11 years old.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The one who disappeared, how old was he when he disappeared?

WITNESS:   When he disappeared he was 18 years old, if he was not 17 years old.  I don't remember well.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is your husband still living with you?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is he working?

WITNESS:   He is not working, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And are you yourself working?

WITNESS:   I am not working, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: You say that you have got children, the eldest is 38 years.  Is it a boy or daughter?

WITNESS:   That's a daughter, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And the one who is 22 years?

WITNESS:   That's a daughter, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The one who is 17?

WITNESS:   That's a daughter, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The last-born, who is 11?

WITNESS:   That's a son, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: So you had two sons and three daughters, and now you have got three daughters and one son.

WITNESS:   That's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Where is the one who is 30 years old, your daughter, where is she?

WITNESS:   She is here in front.

KHANTSE NIKELO: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Thank you for coming with your mummy.  Where is the one who is 22 years?

WITNESS:   She is at school, Sir, in standard nine.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The one who is 17 years?

WITNESS:   At school, Sir, in standard seven.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The one who is 11?

WITNESS:   At school, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What standard?

WITNESS:   Standard three, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Thank you very much.  What is your eldest daughter doing?

WITNESS:   She is at home, Sir, at home.

KHANTSE NIKELO: (Inaudible) ... working?

WITNESS:   She is unemployed.

KHANTSE NIKELO: How do you support your family?  The father is not working and you are not working, and there are children in school.

WITNESS:   I am the person who tries to sell appliances(?), dishes and cups, and I am selling soup.

KHANTSE NIKELO: So it's almost self-employment.

WITNESS:   That's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: You must be a brave and powerful woman to do this.

WITNESS:   That's true, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Now, in your statement, Sabina, you have stated that your son, Christopher Thelo, disappeared after being arrested by the police.  Where was he arrested?

WITNESS:   He was arrested at Orkney.

KHANTSE NIKELO: What year was it?

WITNESS:   It was in 1986.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Can you describe what happened when he was arrested?  Before you do that, was your son belonging to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Which organisation was it?

WITNESS:   That's ANC.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The other members of the family, are they members of any political organisation?

WITNESS:   All of them are ANC members.

KHANTSE NIKELO: When your son was arrested in 1986 was it the first time that he was arrested?

WITNESS:   It was for the first time, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Is there any member of the family who had been arrested before him?

WITNESS:   I don't remember, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: When your son was arrested what was happening in your area?  Why was he arrested?  What was happening in the area?

WITNESS:   When he was arrested he was not at home at Kroonstad, he was at Orkney to attend a funeral service.  When he was at that funeral then they were arrested there.  Why they were arrested I didn't know.  He was arrested with his friends.  They took them to the Orkney Police Station, then they proceeded to Klerksdorp Police Station.  After some days thereafter the friends returned home.  We got a message that he was arrested.  Then we went to that police station to verify as to whether it's true that he's arrested.  When we arrived there we found him not there.  They told us he was transferred to Stilfontein Police Station.  When we arrived at Stilfontein to look for him there was nobody like him there.  Then they told us that he is not here.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Sabina, you say in your statement that your son had gone to attend a funeral in Orkney.  Whose funeral was it?

WITNESS:   It was the funeral for one Comrade in Orkney.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Do you know the name of that Comrade?

WITNESS:   I don't know his name, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And again you say that when he went to that funeral he went with other Comrades?  Can you remember the names of those Comrades with whom he went?

WITNESS:   I remember only one, who is Lekhowa.  I forgot his surname.  His other name is Shadrack.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Shadrack Lekhowa.  Do you know where Shadrack is now?

WITNESS:   I know where he lives, Sir.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Where does he live?

WITNESS:   He stays at Sasolville(?).

KHANTSE NIKELO: Was he also arrested with your son when your son was arrested?

WITNESS:   I don't know as to whether he was arrested, but I believe he was arrested also.

KHANTSE NIKELO: You say that when your son did not return from Orkney about four days after he had left somebody claiming to be a Comrade phoned you.  Did you ever get the name of that person who phoned you?

WITNESS:   I didn't get the name of the person who phoned.  I think he did say who he was, but I forgot, but he's a person who stays at Orkney. But you have never met him?   ---   I didn't meet him, but the person I met is Lekhowa.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Do you know the name of the police who told you that your son had been transferred to Klerksdorp?

WITNESS:   I don't know the policeman's name.  It was a white person.  They were harassing us when we were looking for him.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Did they ever tell you why he was arrested?

WITNESS:   They didn't tell us why he was arrested.

KHANTSE NIKELO: And then when you went to Klerksdorp the police also told you that he had been transferred to Stilfontein.

WITNESS:   That's true.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Do you know the name of that police?

WITNESS:   I don't know his name.  It was a white person again.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Did he also harass you?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was harassing us.

KHANTSE NIKELO: When you went to Stilfontein who did you meet who told you that your son had not been there?

WITNESS:   I found white policemen at the station.

KHANTSE NIKELO: Take your time, Mama.  We understand.  (Pause)  Who was accompanying you when you were going through this said process, from police station to police station?

WITNESS:   I was accompanied by my daughter.

KHANTSE NIKELO: The one who is here?