Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I can remind you Sir, I still remember I was the one who cut off the wires.  I cut the telephone wires in her house.  In that case Sir I appeal to you just to forgive me because it's a long time the way things have happened.  I entered into the house and cut the wires of the telephone, after that I took the keys and beat her and then left.  I took the "groen geruite jas", go out to the car, that is where I managed to have the keys and start the engine and I parked the car in front of the house and the comrades were there and we decided to leave the area.  It was about plus/minus 65 kilometres and then after that we were arrested.  That is shortly Sir, that I can explain to you exactly what has happened on that similar day.

MR MTHEMBU: Now how did you think that the coat that you removed would either advance your cause or would assist you in your fund-raising campaign?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: You see comrade as I have already explained to you the way I looked at things I just thought it's going to make some money for us if I had, if you can sell it at the black market, we are selling things in order to get some money.  For logistical purposes, sorry Sir, under certain circumstances our soldiers you must remember where they were during those days.  It could have happened that Mr Mdluli might come together to the committee commander so that they can use that.  They might wear it whether to resell it or do something about it for certain purposes.

MR MTHEMBU: Do you know or did you see who removed the ammunition from the safe?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I can explain to you is that if you had been listening to me thoroughly and just concentrate on the part that I S Tapelo have played, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Just answer the question ...(intervention)

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am trying to explain ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, you were asked, you were asked who removed the ammunition.  If you don't know who removed it you just say so. You don't have to give a lengthy explanation.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Thank you for your answer Sir, no, I don't know.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mohapi I think your counsel is trying to lead you in order for you to give us relevant evidence which is material to your application, so I think you must listen to him and simply respond to his questions.  He is representing you.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Shortly Mr Mthembu I didn't see who had taken the keys or even the ammunitions.

MR MTHEMBU: But you are aware that the ammunition formed part of the loot that was removed from the house?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am aware of that Sir.  I have realised that.

MR MTHEMBU: And are you aware that the ammunition ...(intervention)

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Sorry Sir can you please not use the similar words the "loot" one. "Loot" is something that has been stolen in a fighting.  I will request you not to use that word of "loot", can you please use another word apart from that one.

MR MTHEMBU: Alright, I'll use another word.  Are you aware that the two boxes of ammunition do not form part of the list that was tendered in court as Annexure A?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am aware of that Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: Now in that regard would you say that this list formed a precise list of all the articles that were removed?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Immediately indicates that there are some certain things which were in the car and even at the court.  It shows clearly that there are some certain things that have been added.  I don't even know what does this (...indistinct) stands for.  It shows clearly that somebody has drafted this list in order to empower this case Sir.  This is the duty of the police.  In order to empower the case they make a point that those people need to be treated fairly.  I could have told you that I have been sent to death sentence long before I appeared in court, proven by the court whether I am guilty or not.  This is one of the things that have been added for their own benefit.  If you have realised the Whites appear to be much better you see, even if you go to the shops I can't even find those things, where are those guns or even the bullets but in court they were there and we know about those bullets.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mthembu I still do not have an answer to your question if you would mind just please also taking control of your client, you know giving us the right and relevant evidence.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Committee member.  Mr Mohapi did you understand my question?  Please Sir do not give the Committee lengthy explanations.  If an answer needs a yes, say a yes.  If I want you to explain I'll say explain.  Do you understand me?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I do understand Sir.  But you can't just say yes out of nothing, whereas you have to provide with suitable evidence, but I promise I am going to respond in answering yes or no.

MR MTHEMBU: Do you still remember my question?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Yes I do.

MR MTHEMBU: What is your answer to that?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: My answer is that according  to my understanding as you have already explained about this issue of bullets of which is not part of those who have  been taken in that area.  This shows clearly that this was just a tricking(?) so that this case may be exaggerated because I didn't realise the  guns or even the  bullets there but I have seen them in the car and even in court.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chairman on a point of clarification the translators have just furnished me with what a "lies" is and it says here
"The point between the abdomen and the waist or the midriff".

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And to assist the Committee further, according to the record, the transcript in court, on page 89 of the bundle, line 18, Mrs Renee Smith was shot on the left leg, on the left side.  I will just quote what is said on the record in Afrikaans,
"Linker been aan die linker side getreff"
That is the left leg, that is where she was shot.  Page 89, line 18.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi my next question would have been exactly on line 18 page 89.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: This is self-explicit.

MR MTHEMBU: No Sir, you don't know the nature of my question, don't anticipate it please.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I thank you Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: Line 18 of the record apparently Mrs Smith was shot on the left leg, on the left side.  From the record it appears Mrs Smith was only shot on one occasion, not on two occasions like you have testified.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: To answer your question Sir, actually it's not an answer it's just an explanation, I didn't say Mrs Smith was shot twice.  Will you please look at your notes, I didn't say that Mrs Smith was shot twice.  It appears that she has pulled her finger on the trigger and that shot wasn't to her but I managed to take the gun and shoot her once.  I don't know whether I am making my own story here Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: No thank you Mr Mohapi.  Sir is there any other thing that you wish to add or is this your case or your application?