Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-06

MR RILEY: Now Mr Henge, is it correct that after the bus attack you went back to your home and you continued to stay there at Beaufort?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MR RILEY: And do you recall a period of time when members of the press came to Beaufort West to enquire about the bus attack?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you talking shortly after the attack?

MR RILEY: Sorry, Chair, shortly after the attack.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, I don't recall the time, Sir.

MR RILEY: Were you not there at that time?  Did you continue to remain at Beaufort West after the attack, for how long, if you did?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I stayed in Beaufort West till 1996.

MR RILEY: Did you continue in that time with activities of the APLA soldier?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I continued with the PAC activities.

MR RILEY: Did you not launch any further attacks after that?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, Sir.

MR RILEY: Was that your only attack?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: That was my only attack, yes Sir.

MR RILEY: Now the reason why I ask you that, must the victims accept and must everyone accept that you did that as a soldier, you had direct orders to do it and can we also accept that because you had done your deed in the passion that you did, that you felt proud of it?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I never felt proud of it, Sir, if I felt proud of it, I would have never come to this Commission to come and tell the people what happened and - that don't make me someone good or someone big, to injure or kill, but the fact that orders were given to me and at that time I believed that was correct, but now things have normalised, I have to come to terms that we are in a new dispensation, we have to take this country and put it forward as a united front, or as a united nation, despite the colour, white or black.  We have to put our past behind.  So that didn't make me proud.  And if that was the case, I could have been arrested long before that time, because I could have sat wherever I'm sitting and boasted about it.  I never did that.

MR RILEY: Yes, that's exactly why I'm asking you.  You see, because you were approached by the police after the incident occurred and that was in 1996, after the elections and the ANC was in power, is that not correct?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MR RILEY: And is it also not correct that prior to that you were basically on the run, you didn't want the police to catch you?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually, Sir, I was never on the run.

MR RILEY: The police were seeking you.

MR LAX: Sorry, just a matter for the record, I think that the various investigations the police launched, were the result of the attachment of these documents as per this statement from the Lesotho policeman.  The police then began a process of investigating all the APLA activities and because they had all the lists and all the names, they knew who the people involved were and that's why they followed them up.  You'll notice there's a hiatus from 1993 till 1996, and that was the result of that.  It's a fact that's known to us.

MR RILEY: Thank you, Chair.
	Mr Henge, can you explain why you did not in fact acknowledge that you had been involved in the attack when the police in fact approached you at the time?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: When the police approached me, Sir, they approached me that I've shot and killed - or shot and injured people and they are putting a charge against me.  Then I personally found it that this, it's not an appropriate platform to put this, because they'll put the charge against me and I have to go to court and the court would take its proceedings.  But then Comrade Letklapa, after I have explained this to him, he said no, there's a platform where you can go and state your case, then the Commission would decide whether no, you were wrong or you were right or whatever the victims saw.  That is when I felt that no.  But with the police I had to deny it, Sir.

MR RILEY: Yes, I must say Mr Henge, that I got the impression from what you testified earlier on, that you were proud to in fact be involved with what you were doing and just thought you know, that in view of the fact that there was a new government now and things had changed and there was talk about reconciliation and moving in that direction, that you would now own up and say: "Yes, I was the man or part of the persons responsible for that attack", without having to think about the TRC, to decide to do that.

MR LAX: Mr Riley, with the greatest of respect, who is going to go and own up to murder and possibly go to jail in a situation like that?  I mean, do you expect the average citizen simply to own up to murder or to attempted murder and take the consequences?

MR RILEY: Well Chair, I think it's a question of convictions here, political beliefs, the man, Mr Henge did indicate to us that was a certain belief and mind-set at the time, but I take the point that you're making.
	Now Mr Henge, you also did not, prior to us meeting here today, you also did not make any attempt to contact any of the victims to apologise to them.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually Sir, I don't know the victims, I don't know their addresses, I don't know who they are, so the Commission was the only platform to meet the victims that were in the bus.

MR RILEY: Now one of the victims has asked me to say to you that it appears obviously that you were relatively young when you were engaged in this kind of activity.  How old ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I think from the record, if you could just - sorry, Mr Riley.  At the time of the incident, how old were you Mr Henge?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I was 18 years at that time, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Sorry Mr Riley.

MR RILEY: Thank you, Chair.
	One of the victims, Mr Williamson, is present here today, he's indicated that he was very concerned that you committed this deed whilst you were very young and he wanted you to comment on the possibility that you might in fact in the future engage in this kind of conduct again.  Do you want to answer him on that?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually, Sir, I think I'll never do that again, I'll never involve myself with such deeds again, because I don't see any political reason why I should do it.

MR RILEY: You won't maybe consider doing it because you want the PAC to be in government?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: PAC is a member of parliament, it's a body that is in parliament, Sir.

MR RILEY: Maybe I should just rephrase that, I mean the PAC should be the government of the day.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I won't do it, Sir, to put the PAC into power, but I am able to assist the PAC to be in government.  But to be involved in attacks and that, I don't think I'll ever do in my life.

MR RILEY: Maybe you can tell the victims what you're doing with your life at the moment now.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually let me give a - in 1996, I went to Cape College and studied Marketing Management, here in Cape Town.  That is where the police found me.  So now I'm on a contract basis working for Markhams at the moment.

CHAIRPERSON: In marketing?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, I'm doing sales there.

MR RILEY: So Mr Henge, are you still involved in politics in any way?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MR RILEY: You're still with the PAC?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MR RILEY: Mr Henge, I wonder if you would want to say something to Mr Alfred Johnson, he is present here today, he's the son of Diena Tonkie, an elderly lady who was on the bus, from Bonteheuwel, and he has a note here from his family, and the note reads, if I can quote from it, that
"It's sad that the applicant until his application now, has not seen it fit to apologise, not even without identifying himself to our mother, the victim, and the family.  Also not to the other victims for what he has put everyone through.  He has not considered the pain and suffering and the anguish he has subjected us to."
Do you want to comment on that?