Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-15

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, did these two people enter South Africa with you from Swaziland or did you meet them in South Africa?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I met them inside the country.

MR PANDAY: And where were they based inside the country?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: At Sobanto, Pietermaritzburg.

MR PANDAY: Do you recall what positions they held?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: We did not have positions.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, the police station that was bombed, do you recall the day that it was bombed?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Although I cannot be certain, but I think it was on a Wednesday or Thursday.

MR PANDAY: If I had to put it to you that it was more specifically on the 13th of August, 1986, would I be correct in that assumption?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I would not dispute that because I'm also not very certain.

MR PANDAY: The Sobanto School that was used as a military base, was that bombed on the same day as well?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: No.

MR PANDAY: Do you recall the day or month that it was bombed?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I cannot recall it because it happened 10 years ago.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, the decision that was taken to bomb the school was obviously by Ralph as you have testified, now more importantly, by bombing the school and the mobile police station, what was to be achieved?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Let me start by saying that at that time there was a struggle to end the apartheid system in South Africa, so police and soldiers were protecting that system of government.  That is why some of the operations were directed at the police because they stood in the way of getting to our objective which was toppling the apartheid government.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, the Sobanto area, or the area where the police station and mobile, the school and the mobile police station was, do you recall what political area it was?  Which party was dominant in that area?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Although I cannot be certain but there was a political organisation that existed at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Which one?  Which political party was dominant in the Sobanto area at that stage?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: It was the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when, you say you can't remember the specific date of the incident at the Sobanto School, in which year was it?  Was it in the same year, was it also in 1986, the same year as you attacked the mobile police station?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't have a better idea as to when in the year that happened?  You can't remember the month?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: As I mentioned before, a long time has elapsed, so I do not remember.

CHAIRPERSON: You can only remember it was in that year during 1986?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.  Mr Panday, sorry.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, just to assist Mr Chairman a bit further, could you recall if the attack was after the bombing of the mobile police station or before the bombing of the mobile station, the attack on Sobanto High School?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: The first attack was on the police station and then the military base school was the second.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Dlamini, do you know of any particular reason why the military base was established in the Sobanto area?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: As I mentioned before the police and soldiers were the protectors of the apartheid system.  At that time the country seemed ungovernable and so they were put there to watch the situation and be able to curb whatever activities are directed towards the government.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Dlamini, after the attack on the school and the military base, did you become aware of any persons that were injured?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Yes.

MR PANDAY: Do you know any of the names of the victims?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I do not know their names except for the fact that I heard from the evidence leader today that some white person was injured.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Dlamini, you indicated that in your application, that you received a report later about the injuries to persons.  Who forwarded this report to you?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Please repeat that question.

MR PANDAY: The report that you received about persons who were injured after the attack on the police station and the high school, do you know the name of the person who gave you this report?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: There is no specific person who gave me the report but the attack was mentioned in the media so I think I learned of it that way.

MR PANDAY: And Mr Dlamini, after the attack on the school and the mobile police station, were you arrested soon thereafter?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: No, it was a long while before I was arrested.

MR PANDAY: Do you recall roughly how long later?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I think two or three months elapsed before my arrest.

MR PANDAY: And during the period of the two or three months prior to your arrest, where were you in that period?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I was at Sobanto.

MR PANDAY: And while in Sobanto, were you hiding from the police?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: I resided in a house that the police did not know about because at the time our organisations were banned so if you were found out or discovered you would be arrested, so I can say yes, I was hiding.

CHAIRPERSON: You were operating underground, your operations?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Yes, I was.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when you were convicted, the terrorism charge was it in respect of both these two incidents, the mobile police station as well as the school, both those attacks?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And what sentence were you given?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Ten years.

CHAIRPERSON: Ten years.  And you spent some time at Robben Island?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were released, you were admitted to Robben Island on the 25th of August 1987, is that right?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That is correct.  I cannot remember the month quite well.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were released on the 27th of April 1991?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Mr Panday, is there anything else?

MR PANDAY: Just one further question, Mr Chairman.  Mr Dlamini, when you were underground in the house that you mentioned, was anyone assisting from remaining underground?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Yes, there were persons who assisted me.

MR PANDAY: Do you recall any of the person's names?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Yes, I do.

MR PANDAY: What are they?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Zanele Ngubane and Moses Jabulane Mkhize, Baba Majola and Mdudusi Kala.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, you mentioned the two persons Baba Majola and Zanele, the deceased, is that correct?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Baba is the one who is deceased.  Zanele is still alive.

MR PANDAY: Okay and the other persons that assisted you, do you know what has become of them?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: Yes ...(mike turned off)

MR PANDAY: And where are they residing?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: At Pietermaritzburg.

MR PANDAY: Mr Dlamini, just one further question.  Did you benefit financially from your attack on the mobile police station and Sobanto School?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: No.  There were no financial benefits that we received for carrying out our operations.  It was just on a volunteer basis to topple the apartheid government.

MR PANDAY: In so far as your application is concerned, besides what you've already mentioned to the Commission, is there anything further you would like to put to the Commission or inform the Commission of?

ZANZILE TERRENCE DLAMINI: No.

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Panday.  Mr Mapoma, any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: Mr Dlamini, Zanele Ngubane and Moses Mkhize were your co-accused, is that correct, when you were convicted?