Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-04

WITNESS:   Zakhele Nketle talked to one of his brothers who was supposed to take me to Ulundi.  This brother was known as Bruford Nketle.  He was one of the senior Government officials in KwaZulu, but most of these people were from Hammarsdale, Mpumalanga.  Bruford Nketle took me to Comrade Mtwe Mafule from Ulundi.  Comrade Mafule took me to a camp known by the name of Nhlumgwane.  He was a national organizer of the youth of the Inkatha.

MR MACADAM: This place, Nhlumgwane, which you have mentioned, firstly, can you inform the Commission where exactly that area is located or situated, where the closest town is?

WITNESS:   The town near to this place, it's Ulundi.  When proceeding towards the north, where the war between the Zulus and the English people took place is the very same place where the roads have to pass through.  That's where

MR MACADAM: /we were recruited.

MR MACADAM: 1B we were recruited.

MR MACADAM: Now, the place which you have described as Nhlumgwane, was that a private residence, a Government building or some form of institution?  What exactly was it?

WITNESS:   Even if I am not in a position to explain exactly what kind of place it was at the time, however, I would like to say that it was used by the KwaZulu Government and Inkatha because after it was used for the purpose of recruiting us.  It was used by community developers.

MR MACADAM: 2A ... [break in recording] ... at that stage.

WITNESS:   It was used as a recruitment base.  At the time when we were getting recruited people came.  One of them I remember, it was Mr Zazi Sibanda, who was a prominent member - ANC leader - IFP leader, I'm sorry.  Mr M Z Khumalo - at the time he was a personal assistant to the President of Inkatha.  I also remember people like Sergeant Gcsibe.  He was a sergeant at the KwaZulu Police at the time.  And others whom I didn't know very well.

MR MACADAM: Apart from Sergeant Gcsibe, were there any other members of the KwaZulu Police which you encountered when you arrived at this place?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was Captain Langeni and another one known as Lieutenant Mbatha.  Others I don't know their names, but I can point them out.

MR MACADAM: And if you can set out briefly what transpired in that place after you arrived there.

WITNESS:   I arrived at the base and I also found people who were also looking for work, who were of my age.  Some were younger, some were older.  We were examined by the doctor who was called to examine us.  We were also introduced to the military training.  There were so many things which had to be

MR MACADAM: /considered, as

MR MACADAM: 2A considered, as to whether you qualify to continue the training or not.  This was something that was their own secret.  All that we knew is that we were being trained to become part of the KwaZulu Police.  There are certain types of questions which we used to be asked, to determine our success.  Questions like, "What is the Mkwamanda of Inkatha?", by Mkwamanda means the central committee of Inkatha.  We would be asked, "What is a Pathfinder?" and also, "What are the policies of Inkatha?", and other things which - kind of question will determine about your awareness in politics, and also questions which will show about how trustworthy you are within the Inkatha organization.  And questions relating to your term within the Inkatha, both body fitness and all those questions will make a person qualify.  Therefore you will be registered and be told that you will continue the training.

MR MACADAM: Who was the person who was asking these questions and laying down this training?  Can you remember?  You mentioned earlier in your evidence various people that were there whom you named and identified as holding various positions.  I just want to establish, you know, who precisely it was who told you these things which you said were told to you and also who gave this form of training which you are in the process of telling us.

WITNESS:  People who were in front of this were two people.  It was Themba Gcsibe, who we knew as a sergeant in the KwaZulu Police, and also Mr Zazi Sibanda, who was also a prominent leader within the Inkatha.

MR MACADAM: And were you and the other persons there requested to complete an application form to become enrolled as

MR MACADAM: /members of

MR MACADAM: 2A members of the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   No, since I ended up as a member at one time, these made me aware of the kinds of form which I have to complete if I were to become a policeman.  Therefore at the time at Nhlumgwane we were not given forms which will make us qualify as the police.

MR MACADAM: Were your fingerprints taken at any stage?

WITNESS:   No, they were not taken.

MR MACADAM: Were any questions put to you and to the other persons in your presence to establish whether you had a criminal record or were wanted by the police?

WITNESS:   No, it wasn't done.

MR MACADAM: Now, you have said that questions were asked about the Inkatha Freedom Party.  Were questions asked about any other political parties?

WITNESS:   No.  They didn't concentrate much regards to other parties.  However, you were asked whether you knew other political parties which were not aligned to Inkatha.

MR MACADAM: And was any action taken concerning the responses given to these questions about this particular political party?

WITNESS:   If you seemed to be aligned to any other organization which was not working closely with the Inkatha you were not going to qualify.  I'm saying this because they selected up to 200 of us at the end.  However, if I remember, there were people who came looking for work.  There were about 400 or above that number.  One of the reasons why some didn't qualify it's because they look as though they were aligned to particular organizations which were enemies to Inkatha.  Some of them were refused because they were not physically fit.  Some were refused because they didn't look aligned or could be trusted by Inkatha.

MR MACADAM: /For how long

MR MACADAM: 2A For how long did you remain in that place?

WITNESS:   Even if I can't remember the exact dates, I would say it would be just more than two weeks, up to three weeks, because I remember we arrived it was March.  After then - and then we have to leave where we had to be trained at somewhere during April - at the beginning of April.

MR MACADAM: It was in the year 1986.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR MACADAM: Now, you said you came to leave that camp in April.  What were the circumstances that led up to that?

WITNESS:   I didn't get your question very well.  Can you please rephrase it, so that I can get it clear.

MR MACADAM: According to you, you came to leave that place after a period of two to three weeks, if I understood your evidence.  What was it that led up to you leaving the place?

WITNESS:   It was clear that the kind of training that I was going to get, it wasn't a kind of training that will serve the community.  It's because the Nhlumgwane area was not capable of practice like the kind of explosions, the kind of guns - the type of guns that were going to be used.  Under such conditions it was impossible to get that specific training that I got, because the place was inside - it was surrounded by families, but mainly because the whole training was a secret.  Therefore a place which is right within the community couldn't be used because of the secret.

MR MACADAM: Now, if you could explain in more detail, why do you say the training was secret?  What makes you express that opinion?

WITNESS:   It is because when we went to the place where we were trained, we were not told as to where we were going.  There had been some attempts to make sure

MR MACADAM: /that we don't