Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

MR ALBERTS: Can you remember when this meeting deciding on the murder of Ntuli's son took place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The meeting was held in 1993 that he should be killed.

MR ALBERTS: And do you know whether this decision was ever implemented?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: ...[no English translation]

MR ALBERTS: How long after this meeting did the eventual death of Mr Ntuli take place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I still remember the date.

MR ALBERTS: Do you remember the date of the incident when Ntuli died?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was a Saturday.

MR ALBERTS: Yes when was that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I cannot remember the day.

CHAIRPERSON: What month?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I cannot remember.

MR ALBERTS: Do you remember the year?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was 1995.

MR ALBERTS: Are you sure about the year?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I am sure about the year, it was 1995.

MR ALBERTS: Do you remember whether it was before or after the first election?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I cannot remember which election.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you present when Ntuli's son was killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was there on the day of his killing.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Two of us were to kill him.  The KwaZulu Police were however accompanying us.

CHAIRPERSON: Now just first tell us about those who were with you. You say there were two besides you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was Sbonga Dlamini.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes and who else?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Bheki Sibiya, a KwaZulu policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: How was Ntuli killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We parked a hippo near his house.  Sbonga Dlamini, who had a teargas canister in his hand then got off.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MR MALAN: Where did he get that teargas?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We got the teargas from the KwaZulu police.

MR MALAN: Who gave it to him?  He had it in his hand, was it given to him, was it given to some one else?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Sbonga Dlamini had it in his hand.

MR MALAN: Did Nyahusa Dludlani, did he give it to him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Bheki Sibiya, who was the driver of the hippo on that day, is the one who took it out.

MR ALBERTS: Yes, he was given this teargas and what happened then?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We stopped near Mtuli's house, and Sbonga got off.

MR ALBERTS: Did he only have the teargas in his possession?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He had a canister and a parabellum that takes 16 cartridges.

MR ALBERTS: Are you now talking about a type of firearm?

CHAIRPERSON: What is a 16 shoot calibre?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: A parabellum.

MR ALBERTS: Parabellum, is that a 9mm?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Did only he get out of the vehicle?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Okay what happened when he got out of the vehicle?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He knocked at the door and Ntuli boy opened the door, Sbonga then removed the pin of the canister and through the canister into the house.  This boy then tried to run out of the house, and Sbonga shot him.  He then came back, got into the hippo and drove off.

MR ALBERTS: Yes?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We drove off.

MR ALBERTS: Did you see the son being shot?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.  I saw because it happened near the door.

MR ALBERTS: We got into the hippo, where did you go to then?

CHAIRPERSON: Just hold it, it is going too fast.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: (... no English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: So when the Ntuli boy ran out of the house who shot him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Sbonga Dlamini shot him.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was keeping guard at another house for the people who might come out.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MR ALBERTS: Were you also armed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I had a G3 machine rifle.

MR ALBERTS: Did you fire any shots?

CHAIRPERSON: What did he have?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: G3.

CHAIRPERSON: What is that?

MR ALBERTS: It is a machine rifle.
	Did you fire any shots?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We did not shoot further because nobody came out of the house.

MR ALBERTS: When Dlamini got into the Hippo, where did you go to?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We went back to Nyawuza's house.

MR ALBERTS: Did you report this to anybody?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We reported to Mr Nyawuza Dlulane.

MR ALBERTS: You also mentioned in your statement the matter where two school boys were killed by Sibonga Dlamini.

CHAIRPERSON: This is now page 26?

MR ALBERTS: That is correct.
	Do you know why these two school boys were shot?

CHAIRPERSON: How many school boys?

MR ALBERTS: Two school boys.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Who killed them?

MR ALBERTS: I am referring to two school boys according to your statement who was killed by Sibonga Dlamini.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: That is another story.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know anything?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I was not there, but I was present when the decision was taken that they should be killed.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think that he was involved in the matter if you read that paragraph was he?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: ... (no English translation)

MR ALBERTS: Do you know why ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't take part in the killing? Because he wasn't even there?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I did not kill anybody there.

CHAIRPERSON: He committed no offence.

MR ALBERTS: I will then move on.

CHAIRPERSON: That is it.

MR ALBERTS: It seems from your evidence that there were a lot of shootings between the two parties, what would you describe the condition in the area between the parties at the time?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There was a no good relationship between the IFP and ANC in the Eshowe area.

MR ALBERTS: Can you give us an idea why all this fighting took place, what was the reason for the fighting?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: What caused the friction in Eshowe is the affiliation to the two parties.  The ANC started this by conducting meetings in the location and ordering everybody to become an ANC member.

MR ALBERTS: What did you try to achieve by these killings that you were involved in?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were doing this as we were also trained as SPU's, because we were getting money.  We were given money, but later this stopped.  Mr Nyawuza would bring the firearms and tell that we were supposed to kill co many.

MR ALBERTS: How did you think at the time your actions would help the IFP?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was told that if the ANC still had leaders my party would not prosper.

MR ALBERTS: And did you attack these opposition party members then to get them out of the area?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: You mentioned being trained as an SPU member, when did this training take place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The training took place in 1993, before election.

MR ALBERTS: By whom were you trained?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were trained at eMandleni.

MR ALBERTS: And how would you consider or describe your role in this whole conflict, what would you say your role was?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The role I played in all this is that I was being called to go and kill people.

CHAIRPERSON: So a killer is called a facilitator?

MR ALBERTS: Wouldn't a better word be something like a hit-man?

CHAIRPERSON: Well he was a facilitator. That is what he means.
	If one kills somebody the killer is a facilitator, is that right?

INTERPRETER: (Explanation)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR ALBERTS: And how do you feel about all these people that died by your hand or with your cooperation?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I am not boasting, I feel very sorry about what happened.

MR ALBERTS: And is there something you want to say to the family of the victims of these actions of yours?