Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-25

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No the blind men I met at the holiday resort.

MR PRINSLOO: In other words they were not at the flat?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No, there were only females at the flat.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you.

MR PRINSLOO: .

CHAIRPERSON: I see your birthday is the same as Paul Kruger's?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did that have any significance for you in your life?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The blind men, when you saw them and they told you that they were involved in the then Rhodesia or Zimbabwe, did you not wonder what is happening to people who are involved in these explosions, aren't there now other blind people?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Chairperson, at that stage, I cannot describe myself, I do not know, like I have said, I think you are different.  I did not talk, I did not give any comment, I knew about this war in Rhodesia.

CHAIRPERSON: But when you saw these were people who were in a bomb explosion and lost their sight, did you not think of the victims of the bomb that you have planted?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, the sympathy is there, because you see what the effect is, you feel that.  But I didn't comment on anything when they actually told us about this, but the feeling, you cannot describe it.

CHAIRPERSON: With regards to Mr Prior's last question, when Gen Viljoen registered as far as I can remember, he also launched an election campaign, there was a big debate about the Freedom Front and the CP with regards  to participating or not.
	I believed the CP and the AWB said no, do not go and vote, but the Freedom Front said yes, you must go and vote.  Did you not hear that the Freedom Front said go and vote?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I know they advised him not to go and vote, they told him not to take part in the elections.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but he did take part?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: That is how I understand it.

CHAIRPERSON: So you did know about the debate which was raging at that time?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, I knew he made himself available for the election, but I believed that the planning, which they were part of, was still going on.  I trusted that, because otherwise they must have given us some feedback.

MR MALAN: I do not want to discuss this with you, what I want to know from you is, why did you think that it is still possible that Constand Viljoen would be part of the planning to stop the elections and now he is encouraging people to go and vote?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Because that same Gen Viljoen was part of the people who indoctrinated me and who told me what to fight for, therefore I believed that he would continue with his planning to stop the elections.  Because he said the violent enforcement of the Volkstaat, that was the only way to get the Volkstaat.

MR MALAN: But you say that you knew about it, that he told people to go and vote?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I said that I was aware of the fact that debate, they told him not to take part in the elections.  I was not at the meeting but they told Viljoen do not take part in the elections, they do not advise it.

MR MALAN: But you also know that the Freedom Front was launching a campaign, an election campaign a few weeks before the elections?
	You know that Constand Viljoen told the people that you must come and vote for the Freedom Front.

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I do not know that he told us that we must go and vote for him.  He said he made himself available, but the other parties were against this and they advised him not to take part.

MR MALAN: I accept that he did not tell you to go and vote, because you probably didn't see him, but he made general requests and he launched, and he was busy with campaigns and placards and he said that the Freedom Front, and you know about the Freedom Front at that time, that is the one he registered, is going to take part in the election.

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Chairperson at that time, in March, when we were busy with our preparations and the time that I moved up, there were only preparations.  The politics were there and the preparations were being made.  I made my family prepare themselves.
	I did not, was not interested in anything else, I did not watch TV any more.  We were in progress.

CHAIRPERSON: Just to link up with that, did you not see the posters and the placards, the election placards in the street which said come and vote for Viljoen and the Freedom Front?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: If I say that I did see a placard, I would by lying, I cannot image that I saw one, and that is my honest opinion.

MR MALAN: But if you say you didn't see it, then you might lie as well?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Maybe, but during the time of preparation, I had no regard or I did not even notice, I had no regard for people who were voting, because I was not going to vote.

MR MALAN: But now we are getting back to the same line that I have questioned you on before.  This means that the leaders were no longer influencing you to stop the elections, you yourself decided to stop the elections, and you were part of that?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I was part of my people, we would stop the elections, the preparations were made.  I do not know when these placards appeared.

MR MALAN: But if he made himself, if he registered himself ...[intervention]

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: The fact that he registered himself, yes, I agree with that.

MR MALAN: I am not going to, what I would like to know from you, it seems to me that you are saying to me you didn't need anyone more, you didn't need anybody else to influence you to stop the elections, this was your own determination to stop this election?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes.

MR MALAN: No one was influencing you any more, you were completely committed to stopping the elections in whatever way and to get the Volkstaat and you did not want to listen to Constand Viljoen any more, or anybody else?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, I was already committed, that is correct.

MR MALAN: So why ...[intervention]

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I am understanding you wrongly.

MR MALAN: So why do you say that you were influenced by your leaders and you did these things because you received instructions, and let's accept for the moment that the instructions were there, but why do you hide behind the instructions if you already committed yourself as an AWB member who agreed with everything?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Now I understand you better.

MR MALAN: Can you please answer that then.  Do I understand you right, you did not need those instructions any more, you were committed?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I was totally committed, yes.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

ADV GCABASHE: Now you see, you have lost me again.  You have just said you didn't need those instructions from the leaders to act the way you did.  I am just paraphrasing it, is this what you are saying?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Let me put it this way, the instructions were already given and we were making ourselves ready and there were no further instructions.   The instructions were already given and this is what I did.  I followed them.

ADV GCABASHE: But if you had not been given instructions, one, to go to the game farm, you would be elsewhere, yes?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Sorry, did you say something about the game farm?

ADV GCABASHE: You were given instructions to go and join the chaps at the game farm?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No, we were already together and from there we went to the game farm.  That was after the instructions, the call up instructions came, then we went to the game farm.

ADV GCABASHE: But how did you know you had to gather at the game farm?  You were told to come up to Ventersdorp?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: That is correct, we moved up to Ventersdorp and from there we went to Cliffie Barnard's farm and from there we went to Jan de Wet's farm and then once again we left for Ventersdorp and then we went to the game farm.