Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-01-23

UNKNOWN: And would you do the registration or would someone else do the registration in the books.

MR KOPI: There was a person who was doing the registration.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I beg leave to call my next witness, Commissioner Tsomela.  The Commissioner has indicated that he would give his evidence in English.

MR TSOMELA: (Sworn states)

UNKNOWN: You may sit down, Commissioner.

UNKNOWN: You're a Commissioner and you are in fact are you not, the Deputy Commissioner of the South African Police Service of the Free State.

MR TSOMELA: That is correct, Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: When did you join the South African Police, Commissioner?

MR TSOMELA: On the 3rd of May 1968.

UNKNOWN: 1968.  Can we go directly to April 1986 and I want to ask you generally - well first of all, what was your position during 1986 in the South African Police.

MR TSOMELA: I was a Station Commissioner at the ...[inaudible] since 1983.

UNKNOWN: Since 1983.  Can it be said that you were a member of the Security Branch.

MR TSOMELA: The uniformed branch.

UNKNOWN: You were in the uniformed branch.  You made an affidavit which you signed and which has been placed before you - it had been introduced in the evidence as Exhibit P65, Mr Chairman.  Do you remember that affidavit Commissioner?

MR TSOMELA: I still remember it and I have it in front of me here.

UNKNOWN: Yes, and do you confirm the contents of that affidavit?

MR TSOMELA: I will ...[indistinct]

UNKNOWN: Now just generally, the period of the mid 1980's, as far as unrest and violence was concerned in the area of Botshabelo, could you just give the Committee a background of how you remember the situation to have been?

MR TSOMELA: Yes, Chairperson, unrest happened sporadically time and again in Botshabelo due to some certain dissatisfaction maybe moreover of students at schools etc., etc.,  which the public or policing or maybe the security branch or the C.I.D. Branch had to investigate some cases etc., etc.  And my position at that stage as I've indicated was that of a Station Commissioner and I was a guardian, the helper and the protector which of each and every individual at the particular police station that I managed.

UNKNOWN: I wonder if I could ask you perhaps if you could speak up a little louder if you will, Commissioner.

MR TSOMELA: I will definitely, Sir, I'm sorry.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  Would it be correct to say that
around 1985/86 lots of people were arrested and moved through your police station at Botshabelo.

MR TSOMELA: That is true, Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: It has been suggested here by an applicant in this case - and that applicant is Mr Ngo, that at the time when you were at Botshabelo Police Station in 1986, there was a large group of students mainly who were arrested by the South African Defence Force in the Ladybrand - I'm sorry I've got this wrong, I'm mixing up the two.  There was, call it a raid, if you like, where people were arrested, a large group approximately 40 people were arrested in the Botshabelo area and brought to your police station.  Are you able today to identify that particular incident or not?

MR TSOMELA: No Chairperson I cannot, as I'm saying that sporadic incident happens and the branch commanders of the different units or components lead their duties according to the available crime intelligency.

UNKNOWN: May I then ask you this, if it is suggested by anyone that you as a policeman at Botshabelo, participated in the beating up of arrested persons at Botshabelo, what would be your reaction?

MR TSOMELA: Chairperson, that is totally untrue because
as I've indicated as a guardian, protector and a Station Commissioner that was not my duty.  My duty was to see to the wellbeing of each and every individual that might be detained at my police station to his wellbeing.  And the regulations and police act and standing order says that I should not, under no circumstances, allow an assault to take place in my presence.

UNKNOWN: And are you aware of large scale assaults on any group of persons by members of the security branch from Bloemfontein at your police station at any time?

MR TSOMELA: No Sir, I cannot recall one at the present moment but I think that if there were, dockets should have been opened and I could have instructed that that should be done.

UNKNOWN: Yes.  Since what date have you become the deputy commissioner of the South African Police in the Free State?

MR TSOMELA: On the 1st June 1995 Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  That's the evidence Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

MR STANDER: Commissioner, did you ever personally meet Mr Ngo?

MR TSOMELA: I don't know Mr Ngo, Sir.  I cannot point him out at the present moment, I don't know him.

MR STANDER: Right, thank you very much Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STANDER

MR DU PLESSIS: I don't have any questions thank you Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS

ADV MEMANI: Mr Tsomela, we were told about the raid of children from Kwago High School where about 40 to 45 of them are arrested?

MR TSOMELA: No, Sir.

ADV MEMANI: It might not have been interpreted correctly but I'm saying that we were told about the raid of involving the peoples from Kwago High School in Botshabelo.

MR TSOMELA: Nobody did tell me about any raid Sir.  The fact being that each and every component works according to his crime intelligency to his disposal of which the key is confidential you know, moreover for the affectivity of the duty as such.

ADV MEMANI: These children we are told were taken to a police station.

MR TSOMELA: I don't disagree about that.  As I've said many, many, many, students moreover - as I've indicated, were held at my police station.

ADV MEMANI: But this was one big swoop that was made once.

MR TSOMELA: Ja, as I've indicated I don't know about any big group of children who were arrested at one time. As I'm saying
you know that happens sporadically and me myself, as I could not took part actively with those particular raids, I don't know of any big group of a specific incident.

ADV MEMANI: These children were not arrested sporadically but it was a planned raid that took place at night.

MR TSOMELA: Ja, that's quite right, I've indicated that you know the raids are not organised by me as a protector and the Station Commissioner.

ADV MEMANI: But surely your co-operation would have been required because it was your station.

MR TSOMELA: My co-operation would moreover come as far as logistics etc., etc., are concerned of which I think that during the unrest, have had already been given to the necessary individuals who might have needed them like vehicles etc., etc., which maybe have in totality been distributed to individuals who could have  utilised them.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Tsomela, this raid took place at night and I believe that you did not work at night ordinarily.

MR TSOMELA: That is true I don't work at night ordinarily but my duty during the night, I visit my station sporadically but on that particular night maybe, I don't remember of any, any children who were held at the police station maybe during a sporadic or an unorganised visit of myself.  I never met
such a group myself.

ADV MEMANI: Well it's obvious that this time it would have been preplanned, you would have been warned in advance that you should be present, that a raid would be carried out in Botshabelo.

MR TSOMELA: By whom?  By whom Sir, be warned by whom?

ADV MEMANI: By security branch.

MR TSOMELA: They could not because the fact as I've indicated the security branch won't disclose their activities because I wasn't attached to the security branch.  They were not directly reporting to me, I was not directly reporting to them as such.