Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-09

DR BORAINE: Did he ever try and explain to you how your son was killed or shot when he was actually in gaol?

WITNESS:   He never explained everything to me.  I only heard that he was taken from a cell and he had been shot at Charlesworth (?).

DR BORAINE: Did the police ever explain why they shot him?

WITNESS:  No, they never said anything, because even on the day of the hearing nobody said anything.  They were only reading the map.  I thought that there was something they would ask, because they said he tried to shoot at them and I asked them how could he shoot at them, because his hands and his feet were handcuffed.

DR BORAINE: /Thank you

DR BORAINE: 12A/19 Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mrs Cele.  There isn't anything much that we can say, but seeing that you've appeared before the Commission that would help you and it will help us a lot, because we will investigate as to answer the questions that you ask.  Your request with regard to Bongani's child we've already heard that, and about the tombstone also.  We don't say we will be able to provide everything, but we are going to try and be of assistance.  May God help and may God bless you.

DR BORAINE: Mr Chairperson, before I call the next witness, could I welcome Mr Roger Hulley, the leader of the Democratic Party in KwaZulu/Natal, and I would be grateful if you would stand just for a minute.  Thank you very much for being here.  Roger Burroughs.  I should know, shouldn't I?  Thank you.  The next witness is Dual Amos Hlatswayo, and I invite him to come forward, please.  Could I just make sure that the witness can hear my voice.  Can you hear all right?

DUAL AMOS HLATSWAYO: Yes, I can hear you.

DR BORAINE: Wonderful.  That gives me a chance to say to you a very warm welcome and to express the gratitude of the Commission for your willingness to come here today and to tell your story.  It's never easy, especially in public, and you are maybe a little bit nervous, but I hope you will relax and feel that you are free to tell your story in your own way.  Before I ask you to do that, which is your own story about your own harassment and arson which is taking place, would you please stand for the taking of the oath.

DUAL AMOS HLATSWAYO: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much for that assurance.  You are now under oath and my colleague, Mr Ntsebeza, will take over from me.

MR NTSEBEZA: I greet you.  You understand Xhosa?

WITNESS:  Just a little bit.  There are other things I may not understand, but if you speak I can hear you as you're speaking.  We will understand each other.

MR NTSEBEZA: I will start by asking you to speak a bit louder so that people can hear you.  Do you understand each other there?

WITNESS:   Yes, we do.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, we must understand each other.  I will try to speak a bit louder.  I am asking you, Baba, before you tell us about the incident which brought you here, which happened in 1984, if you can just tell us about yourself.  Tell us who is this Hlatswayo?  Where were you born and grew up and where did you work up until you are here in Durban?  When did you come to Durban and why did you come to Durban?  Just before we go into the incident that brought you here.

WITNESS:   I was born at Gwamhlaba uya Lingana, but why I came this side, I was already a young man.  I was a grown-up.  I came and worked at Tongaat Sugar Company from 1947.  I only retired now in 1992, when I went on pension.  It was in 1992.  I was married, I had a family at Tongaat Sugar Company.  I had a wife and children.  When I was staying there I had seven children.  There are three boys and four girls.  There is one who passed away.  The others are still alive.  What has brought me here, my younger boy, when he had grown up - he was already in form 5, that was during the UDF time.  One day, as I was sitting - I was staying with them at home, there were some people who arrived and said my boy was guilty, he had written some things on the wall, and now that he's going to pay revenge.  I didn't even know what was this revenge about, because I didn't know what was involved, and the Inkatha people spoke in the township.  While I was still listening to that one day some boys arrived ... (end of tape)

MR NTSEBEZA: 12B/0 ... situation, many other people arrived.  When I hear a little bit about this, apparently some buses came to the township to attack.  They were looking for all the houses where there were UDF boys.  My house was also burnt while I was still asleep at about eleven.  I heard stones being  /thrown

MR NTSEBEZA: 12b/1 thrown all over the windows.  What helped us - saved us that day - we could have been severely injured, but there's something that saved us were the burglar guards - how the stones were hitting and bouncing back, they couldn't get through the windows, until at dawn.  After they had been throwing stones, they kicked the door and came in.  They damaged my hi-fi and broke it down.  After that they hit the TV and broke it down and we were still paying for this.  Even the hi-fi, we'd just finished paying it off.  They also burnt some other property there.  One of them came with a very sharp stick, looking for my boy that they said was guilty.  He had joined the UDF, but according to what we heard is that if this boy is here he will not survive, the way they were speaking about, so we'd taken this boy away.  He went to Johannesburg to his friends, so that he would stay there.  When they came, looking for him the one who had a sharp instrument, we didn't know, but apparently he came from another area, so that even if they killed him we wouldn't be able to know who had killed him.  They looked for him under the bed and all over and they didn't find him and they left.  We slept with my wife on that day.  Although they had burnt things, there was a smell of smoke, but the following I woke up and went to work.  While I was still at work there was a boy who came that they were saying they are coming back to your house.  If we cannot produce this boy, we parents are going to be killed.  I became very, very disturbed and I left my work at that moment.  I looked for a car so that I could go back and start moving my things.  It wasn't only me.  There were other people as well and the other people brought their cars.  We found a small car and they  /brought

MR NTSEBEZA: 12B/2 brought me another second van that we managed to go home and put all our belongings on that van and we left.  We went to stay at Hertford (?) near Verulam.  That's how we left the township.  Even my house I was living in, I left it behind, up until today.  I'm still living in a shack.  I haven't found a house.

MR NTSEBEZA: If I could ask you, the burning of your house, where did this happen?

WITNESS:   It happened at Tongaat Sugar Company.  The name of that township is called Hambanathi.

MR NTSEBEZA: You had built your house at Tongaat?

WITNESS:   No, these were the township houses, built by the company for us.  We were paying some rates for these houses.  Many people were staying there and some people took over those houses and they are selling those houses but because by the time we left they were not yet sold.  I just left things as they are.

MR NTSEBEZA: According to law, if such things happened, you should have reported this.

WITNESS:   There was no way we could report this thing at that time, because if you reported such matters nobody took them seriously.  We did make a statement, but nothing came out of that.

MR NTSEBEZA: When you said you made a statement, who did you make a statement to?

WITNESS:   There were some investigators, CID, we made our statements to them, but after that nothing happened.  They didn't do anything.  The whole case ended up.

MR NTSEBEZA: These were investigators from which police?

WITNESS:   I think they were the investigators from Westville.