Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-06

COMMISSIONER: I want to call Mrs Anna Ndlovu to the table now please.  Mrs Ndlovu I also welcome you warmly.  You were also not here this morning when we greeted all the other witnesses.  You are going to talk also about that period because again in your statement Ketisi's name comes up and you are going to talk about Hunter Ndlovu your son who I understand is in prison, and I hope that you are going to be able to throw some light on some of the issues that we are talking about here today.  Before I ask Professor Piet Meiring who is going to help you with your statement can you please stand to take the oath.

ANNA NDLOVU: (sworn states)

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Ndlovu thank you for coming.  The child on your lap, can you introduce us to the child.

ANNA NDLOVU: This is Tabang, my daughter's child.

PROF MEIRING: I am very grateful that you brought your daughter's child along.  Mrs Ndlovu I am going to invite you first to tell your story and then afterwards maybe we could ask you a number of questions.  But please relax and tell us what happened on the day you want to testify about.

ANNA NDLOVU: These things began around 1990.  I have heard things being said about Ketisi, Ketisi is coming from a meeting, I don't know whether he was with Temba and somebody else and the other civic.  They were staying, they were living so well because they had cars.  When we arrived here in 1979 my son was younger and Ketisi was older than him and HRV/1052 they/...
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they used to call him to wash out the cars, clean up the cars.  It went on and on.  I heard that he was attending meetings and so forth and I heard from that meeting it was said Ketisi shall be shot.  No one came to tell me about this, I just heard rumours, the hearsays from the buses and from other people.  And as time went on, one day when I was coming from work I heard that Ketisi has been shot.  He was shot there at the civic.  I cannot even point at those civics because I don't know much about them.  I saw the police cars outside at night and I looked through the window and I just heard that Ketisi had just been shot.  The following day is when I went for work and I hadn't met his mother then.  When I got back from work I found out that Ketisi had been shot right there at the civic.  I don't really want to lie, I don't know what was the problem really.   Because they used to say Ketisi is driving cars and he's not working.  And I also heard that when Ketisi gets killed his friends also has to be killed.  I never thought really, to tell the truth, that I will also be affected by this.  Afterwards I heard that my child also has to be killed because I am the neighbour of the Ketisi's.  One day I heard that people had been shot and I heard also that - I was surprised because what I knew is that Ketisi was at the hospital.  The case went on and on.  I really don't know how far the evidence went.  When they arrested they also came to kidnap my children and they were taken to the civic of the Zone 12 to tell the truth because if they don't they will burn my children, all of them, because we were their neighbours and were eventually affected by that.  I said I don't know anything, I really don't know anything but God knows everything.  They said I am a liar, I know so 
HRV/1052 much/...
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much, yet I didn't know anything.  I opened the house and I said come in and check, check, search in the house and see if you will find anything because I know I'm innocent in this whole matter.  They said they were going to burn me.  I said I don't care even if they kill me but God knows better.  After a week and after two weeks they brought us home.  When we got home people were so scared of us as if we were animals, as if we kill, as if we are killers that's how they were scared of us, avoiding us.  I never went to Madala.  Really I know I am innocent in this thing.  God knows better.  If they so wish they can kill me but I know that I am innocent.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Ndlovu I will ask for you to be calm and relax.  Get a glass of water and take some water.  Take your time and tell us your story.

ANNA NDLOVU: When we got back things had changed. We were there and they will sing about me saying I am a pretender along with, together with Ketisi's mother.  We know much better than this.  And I really don't know why they were accusing me of things I did not know.  And I decided to leave.  In 1992 they shot my son at the shops.  Sipo came to tell me that Thesilo has been shot by other comrades.  After that one other came, also one of the comrades, he warned me to leave the house because they've already shot Silo and I must run away, I must leave the house because they were coming now to burn the house.  And he also further went on to say run away, you must leave, because they were saying, they were waiting for the schools to open and as soon as the schools have opened they will come and burn the house.  We left truly the house hoping that after some time when things have calmed down we will get back.  And I left the house.
HRV/1052 We/...
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We left for Zone 10.  It was a week already, they hadn't burned my house. And they left, after that I just heard that they had burnt one other house.  And when the second week came that's when these things started, they burned my house.  My house was destroyed completely by fire.  To show that I was innocent I got back home and I occupied the house again and I made use of the things that were not affected by fire and I used them.  I tried to take those things which were not destroyed and they told me that things have changed in the location and I went to the police station and when I got to the police station I was told that I should go back home.  I was then told that there were now trenches in the streets. They have organised the transport to sell my belongings.  The police knew exactly the people who were burning our houses.  I wanted the people to appear before us.  We have never seen people who killed other people, we haven't seen these people who have been burning our houses.  So many things have happened.  We were assaulted.  I even left the church because I was referred to as an Inkatha member.  
 I remember in 1985 with the Sharpeville Six issue I was a woman belonging to a church organisation.  We were kneeling with our knees, praying for those kids, because we've already heard that they were going to be hanged and God listened to our prayers because at a later stage we heard that they have been paroled.  Because I was a woman belonging to a church organisation I knelt and I prayed.  I wanted to meet the Bishop because he was a member, or a priest of our church.

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Ndlovu maybe you should relax a little bit and have a glass of water and then we will continue.  But may I ask again may we have silence please.  I wonder if HRV/1052 I/...
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I can take you a little bit along in your testimony, after your house was burnt you say in your testimony that you moved to Vereeniging.

ANNA NDLOVU: Yes that's correct Sir.  I rented a garage at a White man's place.  I think I spent a year.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Ndlovu do you think we can postpone your time so that we give you a time later?