Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mooiriver — 1997-05-28

CHAIRPERSON: And you mentioned your daughter.  What is her name?  She was also - she was injured.

WITNESS:   Margaret Mchunu.

CHAIRPERSON: How old was she at that time approximately?

WITNESS:   I am not sure, and she is old and I am not really sure.  She is married now.

CHAIRPERSON: How was she injured?  Did a bullet - I think you indicated that a bullet went through her arm.

WITNESS:   Yes, the bullet went through her arm.

CHAIRPERSON: Is she disabled as a result of that, or is she able to use her arm properly?

WITNESS:   She can still use her arm, but she is complaining that she can't carry heavy things and it gets tired easily. (Inaudible)   ---   At Brandville.

CHAIRPERSON: Did she make a statement to the Commission as far as you know?

WITNESS:   I am not sure because she is staying in her house.  I am not staying with her.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... place where your sons were taking refuge, what building was that?

WITNESS:   A church, Ethiopian(?) Church.

CHAIRPERSON: So these people came into the church and they shot your sons in the church?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  There's mention here of Robert Mchunu.  Who is Robert Mchunu?

WITNESS:   My daughter's child.  He was also shot on that night.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   That's correct.  That's Margaret's child.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   In his finger, hand.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... his hand?  Has he been permanently injured in any way or is he okay now?

WITNESS:   He is able to use his hand, and the other child was also shot at his stomach.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   That's correct, that's David Mazibuko.

MR LAX: What happened to David besides - I mean is he all right now?

WITNESS:   He is all right, and usually I do ask him and he is not complaining.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Zaca, I just want to know from you how you feel?

WITNESS:   I am sick, I am very sick, and my legs are terribly painful.  I can't see clearly.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it because of this trauma?

WITNESS:   No, other illnesses.  I had them long before the incident.  If I go to doctors, doctors are telling me more and more diseases, and they have also diagnosed me as diabetes and high blood pressure, and my sight is not very well.

KHOZA MGOJO: What about your mental?

WITNESS:   Mentally I am not well.  I am now talking to you, but by the time I go back to my seat I won't even remember what I have said to you.

KHOZA MGOJO: I just want to remind the public, the people who are sitting there, we aren't here to play.  People who are insensitive we don't need them inside this hall.  There's nothing that one can laugh at here.  We need people who have sympathy, because people who have sympathy today won't be laughing like you are laughing now, they'll be crying instead.  We don't know where you are coming from.  Maybe some of you are here to listen and then go back and gossip about this so that they go back and torture people.  We don't need people like that.  You mustn't laugh.  There's nothing that one can laugh at.  This is a very old lady in front of us.  She needs our sympathy.  I am begging you.  If you don't have any sympathy there's no need for you to be inside this hall.  Some of you can even remember that even Archbishop Desmond Tutu cries when he listens to these stories.

WITNESS:   I forget a lot.  I lose my memory quite often.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you see doctors sometimes, or from time to time?  There are people who help people who lose their memory often.  If you know them you can go see them.  In fact the briefers here can try and make contact for you to see doctors or psychologists who can help you.  Thanks.

WITNESS:  I'll appreciate that.  I'll appreciate that very much.  I can't even hear properly.  Mentally I am really disturbed since this happened to me.  I can't forget what happened to me.  I am suffering.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for coming and telling us your story.  It seems to us that the longer we sit here in Brandville, or in Mooi River, and we hear stories about Brandville, the worse those stories get.  Again it's very difficult for us to understand the brutality and the viciousness of these people - armed men, armed with powerful weapons, guns, who can come into a church and shoot and kill a disabled person and shoot a woman and her sons.  It's a terrible thing, and we understand some of what you are feeling today, and we want to thank you for being brave enough to come here and to relive those memories with us.  Thank you very much.
/CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: The next witness is Alpheus Shabalala.  Good afternoon, Mr Shabalala, we greet you, welcome you here today.  You've come to tell us about the death of your daughter, Jabulile, and the shooting of your grandson, Thokozani, in the same attack.  Before you give your evidence can you stand up to take the oath please.

MUSONGELWA ALPHEUS SHABALALA: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Mgojo will help you now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Good afternoon, Mr Mshengu.  We appreciate your coming here before the Commission to tell us the story of your son.  Before you relate that story to us I would like you to paint a picture of your family to us.  Do you still have your wife?

WITNESS:   Yes, I still have my wife.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am no longer working.

KHOZA MGOJO: What about your wife?

WITNESS:   She is ill.  She has got high blood pressure.  She is seeing doctors.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where were you working before?

WITNESS:   I was working for Spoornet.  I am in pension.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you receiving old age pension as well?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many children do you have, you and your wife?

WITNESS:   We have 12 children.  I have nine boys and three girls.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many are they still alive?

WITNESS:   I have nine children who are still alive.

KHOZA MGOJO: In other words three of them died.

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Besides Jabulile, these other two, how they died?

WITNESS:   They were ill.  In fact one was ill.  This other one was also shot.  His name is Siyabonga. Was he shot before Jabulile was shot?   ---   Yes, he was shot before Jabulile.  Siyabonga is younger than Jabu.

KHOZA MGOJO: When were - or rather when was Siyabonga shot?

WITNESS:  He was shot after Jabulile.

KHOZA MGOJO: I will go back to this at a later stage.  These other nine, are they working?

WITNESS:   Yes, all of them are working.  The one who was shot was still in school.  Siyabonga was shot on his way to school.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you still staying at Bhekizulu?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am still staying there in Drycott, on your way to Loskop.  Amahludeni, that's the place.

KHOZA MGOJO: At this area what was going on when this incident happened?  What was going on?

WITNESS:   It was during the Easter holidays, and there was a violence between - people were killing each other, ANC and the IFP.  My family was an ANC family.

KHOZA MGOJO: Inkatha people were they also from Bhekizulu area?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were.  All of us - Bhekizulu it's just an area.  It's an area there.  It has sections, Dlomo, Thomakale, all these are the sections in Bhekizulu area.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now I would like you to tell us if you still remember the date when your daughter was killed.  Do you still remember the month and the date?

WITNESS:   No, I can't.

KHOZA MGOJO: No, it's okay.  Don't worry if you don't remember.  What happened?

WITNESS:   It was a night vigil.  It was a night vigil, a church night vigil.  The reverend went to the police station to ... (incomplete - end of Side A, Tape 3) ... that they must come and guard that service or that function for the Zion Church.  The police didn't come.

KHOZA MGOJO: Why was the reverend so concerned to go and call the police to come and guard the night vigil?