Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo I am not asking why Terreblanche didn't do it or why he didn't perform his duties. He can come and tell us that himself if he wanted to and I am not expecting of you to give evidence regarding that. I am asking why the Generals in staff or you yourself who was close to him didn't ask him or remind him that he was supposed to do this.

MR PRINSLOO: I can't say with certainty whether or not I discussed it with him. If I had to say that I indeed did discuss something like this with him such as going to the press and specifically mentioning that.

CHAIRPERSON: But that would have been the most important aspect  of the entire operation. Why are you saying that you can't remember whether or not you discussed it with him?

MR PRINSLOO: There were hundreds of people from the press on a daily basis in Ventersdorp and perhaps he did do this to a certain extent but I can't remember anything.

MR MOTLAUNG: Look in conclusion I put it to you that particularly because as you say there were hundreds of press people there - I put it to you that it was never done because what happened about these bombs was a frolic by a small grouping apparently including yourself which knew that these were pure acts of criminality which you didn't have the blessing of the AWB.

MR PRINSLOO: You are entirely incorrect.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOTLAUNG

MR MALAN: Chairperson I would just like to follow this up. I find it difficult and I will be direct with you regarding this. I know that you are aware of what you need to convince me in order for me to believe your evidence that Mr Terreblanche has to accept responsibility on behalf of the AWB, the entire history and all the exhibits also points to a different pattern. It points to a series of bomb explosions - whether these be explosions during which people are killed, injured or maimed or at industrial places, offices and other such buildings and then we have the political speeches of Mr Terreblanche in which he makes direct or indirect threats and he says: "If there is no Volkstaat (and I am referring specifically to exhibit c) then this pattern will continue." Exhibit f, sorry. In the last paragraph of that exhibit there is a short article and in that he says: "All hell will break  loose," and not he or Dr Hartenzenberg will be able to prevent it. In other words the policy was to achieve actual distance from that which was happening while the entire perception was that the right-wingers were actually the ones who were busy with it and your evidence now that you want the AWB to stand up like a man and be counted - if you will excuse my archaic language, is evidence which I cannot believe. The AWB did not want to stand up like a man and directly accept the responsibility for their actions. They did not even want to in an anonymous or indirect fashion tell the media that the AWB was responsible for these actions. It just wasn't their style.  Actually the AWB was a bunch of sissies who could not accept responsibility for their deeds and their policy. What is your commentary regarding that?

MR PRINSLOO: The perception had been created I believe after the Bophutatswana incident that the media would have alleged that the right-wingers had fled.

MR MALAN: No, I am not talking of that. I am talking about responsibility for actions. Taking responsibility in public for deeds which is what according to you was expected and history has proven exactly the opposite.

MR PRINSLOO: They definitely should have taken responsibility for the actions.

MR MALAN: Yes, but "they" is you. This is ambivalent. Couldn't you have stood up and said: "I, Prinsloo, accept responsibility for all these actions on behalf of the AWB. I am on the second level of command."

MR PRINSLOO: Those were not my duties Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Mr Bracher have you got any questions?

MR BRACHER: Mr Prinsloo what is your present occupation?

MR PRINSLOO: I work for myself.

MR BRACHER: Are you a farmer?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes I also farm.

MR BRACHER: Where do you work?

MR PRINSLOO: I beg your pardon?

MR BRACHER: Where do you work?

MR PRINSLOO: I worked for the AWB and I work for myself.

MR BRACHER: What do you do?

MR PRINSLOO: I sell insurance.

MR BRACHER: In what town?

MR PRINSLOO: And I farm.

MR BRACHER: Yesterday you were asked by the Chairman whether you would be prepared to participate in the reconciliation process and try and do something for the victims and you indicated that you would. Do you remember that?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MR BRACHER: Would you be prepared in civil proceedings to give evidence on their behalf to the effect that these bombs were under the command of the leaders of the AWB?

MR PRINSLOO: I was consulted by my legal counsel to accept no sentences or participate in that. It should be taken up with them. I can't respond to that.

MR BRACHER: Okay. Now I want to go to the structures in the General staff. We watched yesterday a video which had something if I recall the spirit of Majuba where it was proudly said you were going to fight battles over the barrel of a gun in the spirit of Majuba. Now when did the principles of the AWB or the policy of the AWB change from that to soft targets and killing innocent civilians?

MR PRINSLOO: That was the order that went out to attack soft targets. As I have previously given evidence history taught us that it was sufficient to create a psychology of fear and angst amongst the public.

MR BRACHER: Yes I understand that but I want to know when. You see the 2nd of April you have got marching soldiers, barrel of a gun, Majuba, Israelites fighting wars and in between that and the election there is a change of policy. You are now soft targets, innocent civilians, hiding away behind denials. At what meeting did the AWB General staff decide to change their policy?

MR PRINSLOO: It had always been the objective or the modus operandi of the various instructors to establish special units which could wage war because we knew that at a certain point in time the ANC/SACP alliance would lodge an attempt to take over the country and to become the new government.

CHAIRPERSON: But the question is aimed at asking you when the policy of the AWB changed into terrorism?

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson I can't say with certainty on which day or during which month this specific event took place but I believe that it has always been that way. The fact that they mentioned the barrel of a gun was more by means of speech, metaphorically speaking. That idea had always been there.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, at least it sounds like bravery.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: Let me put it more specifically. When was the meeting at which it was decided that you would plant bombs at taxi ranks and restaurants and other targets where there would be a majority of black people?

MR PRINSLOO: Do you want to know when this took place?

MR BRACHER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Well that was quite some time before the election and this was discussed at certain occasions. I can't tell you that this took place during a specific meeting. All I know is that it took place over a period of time.

MR BRACHER: When was it decided that generals will go out to their regions and tell people to actually plant bombs at taxi ranks at restaurants? Decided by the General staff?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: When was that decision made?

MR PRINSLOO: It was in the period of time preceding the elections. I can't say specifically during which meeting this took place. What was done at the Trimpark meeting and before that - this was the final stage, we were in the final stage of preparation and the medical corps, the logistic corps and the air wing, all of them had to be in place at the time of the Trimpark conference and at that stage the Generals in staff as well as their 2 IV's pertinently knew what was expected of them.