Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-07

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  I apologise for the slight delay, but one of my Panel Members took the wrong turn this morning and had a free trip around East London, seeing the place which he is not fully acquainted with, but he's here now.
	Mr Knoetze, can you continue?

MR KNOETZE: May it please you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: General van der Westhuizen, I remind you that you are under your former oath.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: (s.u.o.)

MR KNOETZE: (Cont)
	General, we were busy on page 81 of the bundle ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Which page?

MR KNOETZE: That is page 81.  I said Mr Chairman to the General, that I'm reminding him that we are on page 81 of the bundle and dealing with Plan Katzen, about to proceed to paragraph 6.
	General could you please continue to explain what is contained in paragraph 6 on page 81, and what you meant by that.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson yes, paragraph 6 has to do with the pro-RSA and the pro-Transkei/Ciskei leaders to reconcile themselves or to unite them and to then establish under Transkei leadership with the idea that Xhosaland is born and then be recognised by the RSA as an independent State.
	And on page 82, the constitutional process then has to continue, meaning then that is the cabinet and then later followed by an election and then in 8, the preparation of the corridor for phase 3.  Now we will return to that a bit later.

MR KNOETZE: You may continue.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Then phase 3 aligned with 1.  The aim there was - paragraph C1, was before December '87 and that was within the 18 months then to incorporate the corridor with the Ciskei and Transkei.  Now the execution is then given in broad guidelines.  It would be aligned with phase 2.
	Then a further climate establishment or creation, especially among the whites in the corridor.  And then the third paragraph is then the development of the area, that is Ciskei/Transkei in the corridor as the fatherland or the motherland of the Xhosa.  You can understand why there must be a creation of a climate because that the corridor becomes part of the Xhosa land.  That is from East London up to Queenstown.  That is a corridor that is part between the Ciskei and the Transkei and that is then the Xhosaland with one nation, one country.  	Now this Xhosaland would then also, would then establish the land claims, the embarrassing land claims.  
	Then paragraph 4:  The current three areas.   It went economically very difficult.  And then also with East London as a free harbour they would have the power to be much stronger and the RSA then had to assist them with this, with financial assistance.
	Paragraph 5:  Xhosaland is then a success, presented as a success and the envisaged Xhosaland can become an African power.  And I realise it must have been perhaps a bit ambitious to put it in such a way and that could have perhaps led to international recognition.
	In paragraph 6:  As an example we also thought that King William's Town with Bisho next to it would be the logical choice to incorporate first and the rest of the area would then follow.  In those years there were industrial growth points and Berlin in this area was one of them and we thought that that should be stimulated further as a growth point.
	Paragraph 7:  There was also urbanisation and we thought that this plan would then arrest urbanisation in this area.
	Paragraph 8:  Xhosa election with participation of whites should be held in order to establish the first fully representative parliament.  I think I mentioned yesterday that a group of us were not in favour of this, the whole idea of a three-chamber parliament, and the idea was that on regional level we would establish a four-chamber parliament and the State would then have to function.  Now that is the end of the action of 1, Chairperson.

MR KNOETZE: On page 84 the course of action 2 started now.  Before you continue with that, could you just say why they were different courses of action that were suggested?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, in a presentation such as this one has to point out different alternatives to the person who is going to make the decision, you have to aligned the choice.  It is still something just being considered, speculated about.   And we usually do that by means of presenting courses of action where we then give an exposition of a course of action with the different options within that action, different phases, time-frames, and usually it is then repeated in the following action, but still to obtain the original aim.  That's just a way of planning that we usually followed.

MR KNOETZE: Thank you, could you just continue with the course of action number 2.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Now with 2 I also say that the aim in execution also occurs as for phases 1 and 2, that is for action 1.  Phase 3 thereof will be put in abeyance or frozen.  Now you will remember I've just read it, and this had to do with the corridor with the white inhabitants then as part of Xhosaland.  Phase 3, that is the corridor is then frozen for later possible application and it then makes provision for white reaction, negative reaction against the incorporation of the corridor into Xhosaland and this further implies that such incorporation shall occur only when the population is ready therefore.  One isn't quite sure when this would be ready, but as soon as it is then the incorporation can proceed and then also prevent that this aspect places our government in an embarrassing position with voters.  That's the whole idea of selling out.  Phases 1 and 2 are in fact powerful enough to let this action work.

MR KNOETZE: Right, then course of action 3 please.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Now 3, perhaps I should say that that originates in Strelitzia and there is a lot of comparison between the one that has not been approved.  Now it occurs in two successive phases, it's for a year up to June '87.  Phase one is the XWB, also as referred to in the first course of action.  Now the aim here is to establish a confederation of States in the Eastern Cape before June '87.  Now this refers back to Plan Strelitzia.
	Perhaps I can just explain here.  With Plan Strelitzia the idea was an independent Ciskei/Transkei with the Eastern Cape, Region D.  That would not be this whole confederation of States in an alliance.  Now the Eastern Cape would have been a province.  
	Now the execution thereof, that's on page 85, that would have been based on the KwaNatal concept, that is joining Eastern Cape and Ciskei/Transkei in a confederation.  There should have been influencing actions.  The Eastern Cape then acquires provincial status and second-tier government.  That would have put it in position to become a fully fledged member of this confederation.
	In paragraph 4:  Lennox Sebe and his supporters then are removed from the political scene, they were not in support of this plan.  The same as phase 2.  
	And then in paragraph 5:  Lent Makoma and his party colleagues could then replace Lennox Sebe.
	And in paragraph 6:  There is a word "Xhoscape", Xhosa Cape Confederation is then established and that is then followed up by treaties and agreements for cooperation.

MR KNOETZE: Then the implications, General?