Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-09

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thanks, Mr Finye, thank you. I think it is important that we give Ruth a chance to tell us what happened, because she was there.  But thank you very much for telling us your side of the story. After Ruth has spoken, I would like to make some comments about your testimony as well.  Could we pass the microphone on to Ruth, please.  Ruth, are you going to speak in Xhosa or in English?

RUTH KEBISELA: Xhosa.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So maybe you should put on the ear-phones so you can hear my translation.  Maybe, Ruth, if you could - could you move just a little bit closer to the microphone. Can you tell us what happened on the day that you were together with your friends and you were taken by people when you were in the car?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, I can tell you.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Please go ahead.

RUTH KEBISELA: In 1986, May, the date was the 24th, it was myself and the late Vuyani, late Lukhanyiso, (indistinct) in my car, there were six of us.   We were on our way to Khayelitsha. It was about eight, eight pm.  We were going to Khayelitsha. We were going to a party and the six of us were going to a party in Vuyani's car.  On our way, on the main road straight to Khayelitsha. We went past Table Top, near Table Top we found that the road was blocked.  There was a pile of tyres piled up across the road. The stones were thrown at our car. Then we got shocked, what's happening, what's happening here, why are they throwing stones, and there is an old gentleman hiding behind this pile of tyres.  He said stop, stop, stop, Miss, stop your car, and then the car was stopped.  When the car stopped we asked what's happening.  Then he said get off, get off, we want the driver. We want your driver, get out. It was the driver and I was inside and late Lukhanyiso was on this side at the back, it was Maweto, Tom Lakaya, it was three, three. He said get out, get off, driver. The driver went. Then late Lukhanyiso was also pulled out. They said open the door, and then they opened the doors.  And then we asked what is happening. He said yes, you are comrades, you are the Guguletu comrades, what do you want here.  We said no, we are going to Khayelitsha, that we are not comrades, we don't know what is happening.  Then they said that the late Lukhanyiso and the late Vuyani and another crowd and we were still next to the car, and the two are taken by one group of this old gentlemen, took them away.  We were watching them.  We were standing next to the car as they were taking them away.
 Whilst we were looking where were these old gentlemen taking our friends.  Then another group of old gentlemen came and then they took us.  They took us away. We asked where are we going.  We couldn't see one another. One group had gone and we ourselves were going with these old gentlemen. They took us.  Possibly on the way as we were walking, which wasn't easy, we were being beaten. We didn't know what we had done.  They were pricking us with sharp instruments and hitting us with axes and the three of us were all girls, and we asked what have we done, where are you taking us to.  They said yes, you kids of prostitutes, we have got you now.   We are going to show you what you want.  And we don't see the other two, because they have been taken by another group.  They were hitting us, and with sjamboks as well.  
 Then they said to us, let's take them to a nice place, let's take them to Mbongwani, that is what these old men are saying, let's take them to Mbongwani. Then the others are saying let's take them to Pollsmoor.  All this time they were hitting us.  They were hitting us.  They were pricking us with this sharp instruments.  So they clapped us with open hands, if they wanted to, they kicked us if they wanted to.  So we moved, and they were debating, saying let's go and kill them.  The others were saying no, don't kill them, let's take them to Pollsmoor first. We thought they were talking about the real Pollsmoor, the boer place and that would be safe, because this couldn't happen to Pollsmoor, because we felt it would be better to be taken to the boers in Pollsmoor.  So they took us.  When we - and then others said no, they must not go to Pollsmoor, let's take them to the Red Sea. So we said where is the Red Sea.  
 Then we decided no, when we ask questions they start hitting us even more.  So we take them to the Red Sea, take them.  One would pull you this way, the other one would approach you that way.  Then we were traversing Crossroads and the night was falling and through this passages, and then they said you are going to tell the truth.  We said what truth, because we don't know, we haven't done anything.  So they went round Crossroads and then we came to some big sea and one of these men, one man said do you see this Red Sea.  So I said yes, here is the Red Sea. Then they said come, come close to the Red Sea. Then we were crying because we could see the Red Sea. We stood next to the Red Sea.  
 Then when we looked we saw a head floating in the water and the lower part of the body.  We were standing next to this Red Sea. Then they said you are going to go through that experience here.  Then we started crying because we could see now what the Red Sea was and we could see some human heads floating and headless bodies floating. We asked, we apologised, and what have we done.  Then they said you will see.  
 Then they said and then they are arguing.  They were arguing. One said this deserves a tyre, this deserves a tyre.  Then they hit us.  What size do you wear? What size do you wear, tell the truth, what size of tyre do you take.  Then we said no, we don't know sizes of tyres.  Then they hit us.  They said you are going to tell the truth, what size of tyres do you take.  So we didn't know what sizes of tyres we could put on.  Then they brought three tyres.  And so it happened all the other time.  The third boy they didn't see. He was amongst these men.  They didn't see him and he was listening to everything they were saying.  Apparently he ran away when they were telling us we were going to the Red Sea and he disappeared and they didn't see him.  As he told us later, he hid underneath the car and three tyres were brought. They were put next to us. Then they were put around our necks, three of us.  Then came with a big tin of paraffin, which was this big. Then there was some argument. Others say no, then they disagreed on what to do with us.  We said well, God is on our side because there they are fighting, they don't know what to do with us.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Sorry.  Please just give her a chance to listen. We know what she is saying is very touching, but please let's just be patient and keep quiet.