Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

REV XUNDU: What was happening to these children, were they protecting their rights or were they just criminals?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: These children were fighting for their rights.

REV XUNDU: Many people, as you were listening yesterday if you were here, there was this conflict between the police and the people, when a house was burnt the police wouldn't go to that house to observe but in this case they took part because they were working together with the peace-makers.

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Yes now it is clear although it was not clear to me before.  I just saw that there were many witnesses and even those witnesses some of them I didn't know them before, I just saw them in court.

REV XUNDU: In the court of law you were compensated in that these children were sentenced, eight out of nine were sentenced, the government sentenced these people but you have a request that you want an investigation and to find out if justice prevailed in court.  Weren't you satisfied because these children were sentenced in court?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: My request was on one child because at the time of this court case it was claimed that there was one stone which killed my husband and the person who did this was this one child who was not sentenced.

REV XUNDU: So in other words you want this child - you say that he was mentally disturbed at the time?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: There was an attorney from Port Elizabeth, I am not sure whether it was Strydom, he said that all the eight children said that it was this ninth child who killed but I was not in court at that time because when the proceedings continued the lawyers advised me to go out.  It was then said that all the eight children claimed that this stone was thrown by the ninth child who was mentally disturbed at that time.

REV XUNDU: Would you find something else in someone who is mentally disturbed?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: No at the time I was not sure if he was the one who was mentally disturbed and I'm not sure even today.

REV XUNDU: In other words what would you like us to recommend to the President?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: I can't say anything, the President will see what to do for me.

REV XUNDU: Is there peace between yourself and the parents of these children, or is there conflict between you?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: There was no peace then on their side, on my side I didn't have a grudge against them, I forgave them, even today.

REV XUNDU: So between yourself and the parents of these children there is no conflict?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: No.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson I will hand over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: June Crichton.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs Soya I am interested about the peace-makers, to hear from you, were you a member, did you ever attend a peace-maker meeting?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: I was not a member and I never went to any of their meetings.

JUNE CRICHTON: Well one of the witnesses came from another organisation that - the reason why I'm asking you that question was to find out whether there were ever any other members of the community who were involved in the peace-makers other than parents.  It seems to me that when an organisation like that is formed the wider community is also informed, the children were all over the area, they needed perhaps a wider representation, that's just a comment from me.  But together with that I would also say that it seems so sad and so senseless that your husband died, because according to research that has come through we find that the children of Moyaka school were intending to go back to school the following week.  So it seems so very sad that the wider community was not involved in the peace-makers, and that the police used them in the manner that they did.
 The only other thing I wanted to ask you was whether you were advised at all to institute a civil claim regarding the death of your husband?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: I tried to ask that attorney if it was necessary for me to institute a claim and the attorney I consulted said to me that these are children, they are unemployed and the point of instituting a claim is in order to get something from someone who has, albeit it somebody that works or somebody that owns property or something.  I accepted that because if he said that these children wouldn't have anything to pay then I accepted it as such.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much Mrs Soya.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Soya I understand that this is a very painful story to relate and that you could become very emotional, but what I would like to know is whether these peace-makers were employed or whether they were volunteers?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: From what I know they were volunteers they were not paid.

CHAIRPERSON: So your husband died and you did not receive any kind of compensation?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: No there was no compensation.

CHAIRPERSON: These children who were found guilty do you know what their jail sentences were?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: They received different sentences.  I am not sure whether it was determined according to their age or according to the role which they played, some of them were given suspended sentences and others were given jail prison terms.  I cannot remember how many years they were sentenced to.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anyone you know who is still alive who was a member of the peace-makers that could perhaps elaborate to us as the Commission about their role?  As you say they were notorious for cooperating with the police but we would like to know how they started this organisation.  Do you know of anyone that could come and give us that information?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: I do not have any information about them.  They used to hide these things from us.

CHAIRPERSON: So they were a secret organisation?

NOMILILE PHYLLIS TANDIWE SOYA: Well evidently they were because we didn't know much about them, because as I said even with my husband I would want to know about people who would come and see him and if I asked him if he had anything to do with these peace-makers he would deny that.

CHAIRPERSON: Because even the name is something that indicates good intentions, I mean peace-makers and yet not much is known about them.  We are going to ask our investigating team to try and find out more about these peace-makers.
 Mamma Soya, we thank you for having come before this Commission to tell your story.  It also assists us in obtaining a complete picture of incidents which took place here in Grahamstown. It is possible that without your input we would have - there would have been some incomplete spaces in our story and as Mrs June Crichton said we would like to extend our sympathy to you with regards to the death of your husband.  We are going to attempt to investigate.  I do not know if we are going to ever be able to do what you asked us to do here, that being that we trace the ninth child and find out why you never received any compensation for the death of your husband.  We thank you for having come here.
 We are going to take a short recess, a 15 minute recess.  We will come back here after 15 minutes.
HEARING ADJOURNS