Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

KHOZA MGOJO: And how do you live at the moment?  Since you are no longer working how do you manage to support your family?

WITNESS:   I am staying with my elder sister.  She helps me in most of the things.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have one child.

KHOZA MGOJO: How old?

WITNESS:   He is 10 years old now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is he studying?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who is supporting your child?

WITNESS:   Yes, my elder sister is supporting my child.

KHOZA MGOJO: Which means it might happen that you might like the Commission to help you to connect you to some doctors who might diagnose further illnesses.

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thembani, what I know ... (inaudible) ... is that most young children were victimised and harassed.  You told us at the time you were shot you were holding a child who was six years old, and you said when you fell you fell on top of the child, but you never told us exactly what happened to the child at the time you were shot.  What happened to your child?  How is your child at the moment?

WITNESS:   My child is healthy and there is nothing wrong with her.  I was the only one who was injured.

KHOZA MGOJO: Beside physical injuries didn't you recognise anything psychological injury to your child?

WITNESS:   There has been some changes in my daughter, because sometimes when they asked her, "Where is your mother?" she said, "My mother is dead."  They asked her, "What killed your

KHOZA MGOJO: /"mother?"

KHOZA MGOJO: mother?"  She said, "My mum has been shot by people and I

KHOZA MGOJO: don't have a mother."

KHOZA MGOJO: Beside that is there - or has there been any changes in your child's life?

WITNESS:   There has been no changes besides that when I take off my clothes and wash - because normally I wash in her presence, I normally see her looking at me, and after that she will cry.  In other words I think she remembers the time as the incident was happening.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement you said at the time you were injured you sent this child to your daughter-in-law that you were injured, and it was at night.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you ever try to ask for pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, I tried, because when I left the hospital the doctor wrote me a letter.  I took this letter to the headman, and what hurt me the most is that after all these injuries I didn't even get a cent.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, I hear what you are saying.  It means you didn't get any pension.

WITNESS:   Yes, I didn't get any.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Good morning, Thembani.  I wanted to ask you a question about your child, but it seems so far you have already explained much about your child, but it seems as though you haven't told us much more about your family as a whole.  You mentioned your elder brother who is helping you.  Are there some other brothers and sisters at home?

WITNESS:   My elder brother is married.  My elder sister, I am sorry, is married, and she is no longer living with the Nzimande family. Where is she working?   ---   She is a teacher.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you stay with her?

WITNESS:   No, I don't stay with her.

KHOZA MGOJO: You once mentioned this daughter or young girl by the name of Jama who came to tell you that there were some people outside.  In your mind do you think that she was also working closely to these people who were attacking you, or she was just someone who was coming to warn you?

WITNESS:   As I explained that this child came with her mother.  They were from the direction of my house.  It seems that they were running from the volatile situation and coming towards us and telling us that we should lower our voices  because there are some gun sounds outside, and from there they just disappeared.  They went away.

KHOZA MGOJO: In other words you're saying they were also running away?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were running away.  After they had disappeared then it's then that we started hearing the gunshots, and after the third gunshots and then it's then that we were attacked.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said you reported the matter at Port Shepstone Police Station.  Did they open any case on the matter?

WITNESS:   I will say that investigators came to me while I was in hospital.  They asked me whether I know the person who shot me.  I told them that I didn't know the person who shot me.

KHOZA MGOJO: What did they ask you?

WITNESS:   They asked me whether I know the person who shot me, and I told them I didn't see the person who shot me.  I told them that however as I fell down I saw someone standing next to me, but I couldn't recognise the face.  I don't know the person.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did it all end like that?

WITNESS:   These investigators went away and they told me that they will come back again.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did they come back again?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did come back again, and I told them the same story, that I didn't see who shot at me.

KHOZA MGOJO: And it ended there?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Nzimande, you said there were a whole group of you in that house that evening who were involved in the singing, and that had had a meal together.  How many of you were there?  Can you remember at all?   I'll repeat the question because you didn't have your earphones on.  How many of you were together that evening before the shooting started?

WITNESS:   We were so many.  I can't remember exactly the figure or the number, but we were many.  During those days we used to ask her daughter to go and collect all the girls so that we can all meet together, so we were many together with the children.

COMMISSIONER: How many were either shot or injured or died of this group that were together with you that night in that particular room?

WITNESS:   I would like to say that people were shot during that day.  Some of them died, some of them survived.  Five of them died.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Nzimande, thank you very, very much for coming in to talk to us today.  Is there anything more that you want to say about what you have said?  Is there anything further you want to add, or have you said what you want to say?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have anything.

COMMISSIONER: We can see how difficult it has been for you to tell us what happened to you on that day, and how difficult it has been for you to relive that experience.  It's also very difficult for us to understand what makes a person come into a house and shoot women and children, to shoot a woman holding her child.  It's very difficult to believe that people can do that, and we express our deep sympathy to you.  You were very lucky that night because you could easily have been amongst those five dead, and it seems as though that is what that person intended, whoever shot you, that he intended to kill you as well.  We will certainly do our best to investigate as to why this happened, why those five people were shot on that night.  It's a terrible thing that we don't already have this information.  In most other countries in the world if five people are massacred there's a huge police investigation, people are arrested and charged and put in gaol, but that's not how things happened here in Port Shepstone, and in many other parts of our country.  So we will try to get to the bottom of what happened to you and to those other people who died that night.  And so we want to thank you very much for coming and sharing with us that story, and we wish you well.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   I also like to thank you.