Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-24

CHAIRPERSON: Just for purposes of the record, today is Tuesday the 24th of November 1998.  The appearances are as before.  Mr Sibeko, have you got a further witness?

MR SIBEKO: Yes, Mr Chairman, I've got Mr Nkosi here as one of the witnesses and we still have Mr Kasrils who will coming in later in the day.

CHAIRPERSON: Shall we proceed to take the testimony of Mr Nkosi?

MR SIBEKO: As it pleases the Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nkosi, would you please stand  Can you give your full names for the record please?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibeko?

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Nkosi, would you give us your full particulars, if you hold any office, tell us about that position.

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: I will like to explain in Zulu if that is permitted.
	My name is Duma Nkosi.  I reside in Thokoza, Extension 2.  I have been there since 1989.  In 1994 I was working for Makro since 1981 and in 1994 I was elected as a member of parliament in Cape Town, since 1994 to date.  But before then I used to work like a shop steward at SACAU and I was a leader in the union until '94 when I was sent to parliament.

MR SIBEKO: And then during the time when the violence at its peak in Thokoza, where were you and what were you doing?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: When the violence erupted there I was already an ANC member.  I've been an ANC member since its unbanning in 1990.  We formed an organisation of ANC in our residential area because all other organisations were making themselves known and visible to the public, so we felt we should make the same initiative.
	In October 1990 I was elected as a member of the committee of the ANC branch in Thokoza.  I was the secretary there.  It was in October and I think it was on the 14th of October if I'm not mistaken, when I was elected.

MR SIBEKO: Will I be correct to say that you were actively involved in the political activities of the ANC throughout until the unbanning?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: I would concur with that because I used to work being active in many organisations before 1990.  I would be connected with the ANC outside the country, like Swaziland but  in 1981/'82 I was already working for the ANC.
	In 1984 that is when I encountered problems, I was arrested due to my activities with the ANC and I was expelled then but when I came back to join Thokoza as a resident I was active in Cosatu engagements, from the union SACAU.  I'm trying to show that my membership with the ANC has been long existing, even before I came as a resident in Thokoza.

MR SIBEKO: Now Sir, in front of you I can see that you've got the submission which was made by the ANC branch in Thokoza, was that submission sent to the TRC?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: There's a report yes, that was in place in 1997, towards the end of 1997 but what I would like to show is that I was already an assistant of the chairperson in the Thokoza branch.  The chairperson was Mr Louis Sibego.  But even before that I was a chairperson of that branch since 1996, 1995 and 1994 plus 1993 to 1992 and 1991 as well.  So that since the establishment of this branch I've been the secretary and since 1992, no, it's 1991 when we went to the annual general meeting I was elected then as a chairperson of the branch.  I've been in that position since 1997 when Mr Sibego was elected to the position and I became his deputy or his assistant.  I have been the in the East Rand Regional Committee of the ANC.  I've been active as well there.
	According to the parliamentary constitutional office I've been allocated the greater Alberton, to be active there.  That is including Polla Park, Eden Park and the whole city or town of Alberton.  I'm still residing in Thokoza and I am still active in the area.

MR SIBEKO: Now in other words the submission that was made by the ANC, you are well aware of the contents thereof?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: Yes, that's very true.

MR SIBEKO: I'm under the impression that such a submission correlates to what the applicants who have brought in their applications yesterday told this forum about.  Would you mind taking us through it?

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: It was our request when we gave the report to the TRC office in Johannesburg that we should be afforded the opportunity or time ...(intervention)

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, sorry to interrupt, that specific submission appears on page 11 to 58.  It's a document called "Background Information - Thokoza Conflict".  Thank you Sir.

INTERPRETER: May the speaker reduce the pace.

MR SIBEKO: Mr apologies, Mr Chairman, I don't have this small binder with me so I can't clearly state where exactly it is what we are talking about.  My apologies.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the interpreter wanted the page as well.  Pages 11 to 58 of the record before the panel.  Oh, I see.  Is the witness speaking too fast?
	Mr Nkosi, what they are doing is they are translating simultaneously as you are speaking, so they are having some difficulty in keeping up with you.  Perhaps you can just give them a bit of a break.  You may carry on.

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: First of all I would like to show the Commission that when we prepared this report we had a desire that the whole situation as it prevailed should be clear to everybody as in sequence of how things erupted and the way we deemed the whole situation in our residential area.
	I do trust and hope that the Commission will be clear and understand the fact that we submitted this report on behalf of the Thokoza branch, Polla Park as well.  We also wanted to show that we are prepared to build structures for the community's safety.  
	The report as it was given yesterday by Lusaka-A - Lusaka is part of Thokoza area.  We usually refer to it as section.  Lusaka section forms a smaller part of Thokoza.  Now when we separate Thokoza - when we divide Thokoza we will divide it into 13 areas.   They have their names as well, like Kathrada section.  
	I would also be showing that there are other places like Everest and some of the names have been changed since the election.  They no longer are referred to as they used to be known in the past.  They have now new names.  I am so glad to bring this report before the Commission and I do envisage that this will be of great help to the Commission, especially about the problems we encountered in our residential area at the time.
	First of all I would like to bring to your attention something which may not be so clear in the report but it is apparent that our belief in the community was that we were being attacked, the community was being attacked, attacked in such a way that the community itself now will be fighting one another.
	What may be apparent and clear to you is that all the amnesty applications would appear to be saying there were fights against IFP or rather the fight was against IFP.  That brings an assurance to me that the people who wanted to instigate this or to get the two communities fighting in the area of Thokoza would have succeeded by so doing.
	The IFP and ANC conflict, the way it's appearing now is in such a way that we are appointing at a symptom but the real problem or the real wound is what I will try to explain to the Commission.
	In my opinion or my view I do believe that as time goes on we will have exactly what happened.  In fact I brought this report so that I could draw and show you a few other items.  I will attempt to show you there on the white board, especially about the attacking of the community.  So I may try to show you exactly what the situation was at the time.
MR NKOSI ILLUSTRATES BY DRAWING ON BOARD
	My picture is not very beautiful but I'm trying to show that this triangle we will refer to as Thokoza and on the other side, upper, there will be the three hostels, the first three hostels, Mshayazafe, Madala and Kutuza hostels.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nkosi, don't you just want to repeat the names of the hostels please.