Human Rights Violation Hearings — Witbank — 1997-06-05

MR LEWIN: You mentioned also that your cousin came in and saw you.  How did that actually happen?

UNKNOWN: Where they were ............. (tape ended)

MR LEWIN: ..................... she saw you.

UNKNOWN: It's my cousin's brother.

MR LEWIN: Oh, cousin's brother.

UNKNOWN: He saw me as I was trying to get outside and Skosana wiped my face and I was bleeding profusely.  He opened the door and whilst they were going out, that's when my cousin's brother saw me.  Right at that moment.

MR LEWIN: In your statement you also mention at that point that there was another, you mention the name of another person who was with Skosana and Mashlango.  Can you remember that name.

UNKNOWN: You mean the one who was with Mashlango and Skosana?

MR LEWIN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: He's Captain Olivier.

MR LEWIN: Do you know where he is?

UNKNOWN: I don't know his whereabouts now.  The last time I saw him was then.

MR LEWIN: So after all of this, you said that they actually charged you and then they acquitted you.  What were you charged with?

UNKNOWN: They said that was public violence.

MR LEWIN: Were you just in detention then or were you just awaiting trial?

UNKNOWN: I was awaiting trial.

MR LEWIN: Can you remember how long that took?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I do remember.

MR LEWIN: Could you tell us.

UNKNOWN: From July and I was freed in October, the 23rd, 20th or 23rd, I'm not too sure about the date but in October anyway.

MR LEWIN: Then at that stage you went back to the hospital to work, did you?

UNKNOWN: I never worked because I was suspended.

MR LEWIN: They suspended you immediately after you went back?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Can you tell us how have you existed in the last twenty years?   What has happened to you since then?

UNKNOWN: I'm disturbed emotionally because I think if I hadn't lost my job I would be far away now.  Right now I earn a pension from the Government.

MR LEWIN: You do get a Government pension do you?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I do.  A disability grant of some kind.

MR LEWIN: How long have you had that?

UNKNOWN: Since 1987.  I'm sorry, since March 1988.

MR LEWIN: So what did you do between 1976 and 1988?  What did you do in those twelve years?

UNKNOWN: You mean between 1976 or after I'd lost my job?

MR LEWIN: After you'd lost your job up until the time you got your disability pension.  How did you survive?

UNKNOWN: I had to become a thief to survive until I was employed by LTA and I lost my job soon after that.

UNKNOWN: And then finally you got your disability grant?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MR LEWIN: Could I just confirm, all the disabilities that you're talking about, that you have described to us, they all come from the time that you were actually in detention?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MR LEWIN: Mr Buhali, could I just ask one final question so that we're quite clear.  You talked about being, you said you were hanging and in your one hand you had this heavy weight and you said you were hanging.  Can you explain this?  What was actually happening there?

UNKNOWN: I don't know how to demonstrate and explain this.  This is confusing.  They had handcuffed my hands and put my right in-between my knees and they had wood, heavy wood, right on top of my right hand.

MR LEWIN: Okay and that was then put onto two tables?

UNKNOWN: That's true, yes and then I hung in-between.

MR LEWIN: And you were hanging there in-between and you couldn't get out of that?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR LEWIN: This was a torture that was used particularly in the '60's and then again in the '70's.  Can you explain to us just finally, what it felt like?  How did you feel when that was happening?

UNKNOWN: I don't understand.   Do you mean after the torture or at the end of the whole thing?

MR LEWIN: During the torture.  What did you think was happening to you?

UNKNOWN: I thought I was dying because that was my first encounter with that kind of torture because each time they wired me I felt as though there's something that's stinging me, or the bees.  I was in a complete state of, I was surprised and amazed at what was being done to me.

MR LEWIN: Would you have in fact done anything that they would have wanted you to do?  Answered any question that they wanted you to answer?

UNKNOWN: You mean I could answer.  Please repeat your question.

MR LEWIN: Did you feel that you had to answer all their questions at that stage?

UNKNOWN: If I knew anything, I would have exposed it to them but because I had no information or knowledge of anything, I kept quiet.

MR LEWIN: And so they continued to torture you?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they continued and told me repeatedly that I was lying through my teeth.

MR LEWIN: Mr Buhali, thank you very much.  Mr Chairman, I have not further questions.

DR RANDERA: Hugh, I mean Wynand?

MR MALAN: Mr Buhali, were they asking you any specific questions when they were torturing you?

UNKNOWN: I remember the questions they asked me.

MR MALAN: What kind of questions did they put to you apart from whether you were UDF or ... Was it not PAC that you were thinking of?  ANC/PAC?

UNKNOWN: I don't remember.  I think there was ANC or UDF and PAC, I don't quite remember.  They asked me if I was a member of UDF or PAC or ANC because they would through that question to me and each time I screamed, they will leave me and when I kept quiet, they would continue asking me again until I urinated on myself.

MR MALAN: You said in your statement and in your evidence that they were applying this electric shock method till you started to scream and then they asked you whether you were prepared to talk.  Was it just a general question or did they ask you about individuals?  Did they ask you any specific questions, did they ask you about leadership?  What kind of questions did they put to you?  Can you recall any of them?

UNKNOWN: They told me that one of the school children told them that I took part in throwing stones as well.

MR MALAN: You say that you did not open a case because you feared that they would repeat the torture?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR MALAN: So you did not report this to anyone at the time?

UNKNOWN: You mean I never reported the matter to the attorneys or to the police station?

UNKNOWN: No, to the authorities or attorneys.  Who did you report to at the time?

UNKNOWN: I only told the Black Power guys about it because they were my friends and we were quite close as well as other friends in the township whose names I won't disclose.   They were the ones who paid my bail.  As for Attorneys, Pastors or Reverends, I never made mention of this to them.

MR MALAN: You did also say that the police took you to Doctor Joint.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR MALAN: For treatment after they hurt you?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR MALAN: This Doctor Joint, is he still around, still alive?

UNKNOWN: Doctor Joint is working for the Witbank District Surgeon's offices.

UNKNOWN: So he's still the District Surgeon?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he's the District Surgeon.

MR MALAN: Thank you, I have no further questions, Mr Buhali.

DR RANDERA: Miss Mkhize?

MS MKHIZE: One question.  What confuses the Commission is that the statement takers are talking about UDF and as you are rendering your testimony, you keep mentioning the Black Power and earlier on you said, they said Black Power has invaded the township.  Could it be that you were confused when you were giving your statement but now you have a clearer recollection of what was happening?

UNKNOWN: It was Black Power.

MS MKHIZE: We have to be clear about that because it would seem that what you're saying contradicts your statement.  You talked about three children.  Did you have those children after the incident or before?

UNKNOWN: I have one illegitimate child but the other two are my children from my wife.

MS MKHIZE: Tell me about this one illegitimate child.  When did you ................

UNKNOWN: That happened after the incident, in 1980.