Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-02

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: The meeting in which we discussed the attack on the bus was the one we held of Mgababa was killed on Sunday.    That is where we discussed the plan.
	The one on Monday when I was coming back from work, it was a meeting where those attackers were to be deployed to go and attack the bus, those four people I've just mentioned.  They were told they know how they were going to attack and how the Induna's instructions were.  That is what was said to them and they were deployed.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, staying on the issues of the buses, you testified that there were two buses because there was a lot of fighting.  Under normal circumstances, were there more than two buses on a daily basis?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I would say most people in that firm were using taxis only.  The reason why there had to be two buses is because there had been fighting and people had to use different modes of transport, therefore they had to bring two buses.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the question was, before the fighting occurred, were there more than two buses?  When things were still normal, when there was no conflict in the area, did you have more than two buses operating from work?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: We didn't have buses, there were only taxis.  Buses only operated in the municipality area and some will go to town.  We were only using taxis in that area, but after the fighting had started and we had to use different modes of transport, therefore they introduced buses which came only to carry ANC members.  I personally wouldn't be allowed to travel on that particular bus because I was an IFP member.  I would say buses started operating in our area after the fighting had started.

ADV BOSMAN: Do you know who introduced the buses, Mr Hadebe?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: No, I don't know.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, these particular buses, were they only operated to and from the Escort Bacon Factory and the town of Ratanda?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Could you please repeat your question?

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, these buses that you've just mentioned, what was the route that they followed, from and to where did they run on a daily basis?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: The buses that I know which used to drive along the street will come from the township, Ratanda, they will go to town in Heidelberg and the other one will take the route via the municipality offices which passes - the municipality offices is near to the firm where I'm working.
	But after the fighting started two buses were introduced which will proceed straight in the direction, or enter that particular firm where I was working.  And taxis, we ourselves were using taxis which were used only by IFP members.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, referring back to the meeting you held, the people who lived in Ratanda Hostel, were they mostly employed at your place of employment or were they employed at different places?

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Claassen, can I just come in here.  I think you should make it clear to your client to which meeting you are referring.  We're already having difficulty in following the two meetings.

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon me.
	Mr Hadebe, referring to the meeting on the Sunday evening after the Induna was killed, the people present at that particular meeting, were they mostly work colleagues of yours - let me rephrase that, were they were mostly employed at your place of employment or in different places?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Most of the people I would say were a number of people.  There were people who were working and some who were not working but there were people who were staying with us together in the hostel.

MR LAX: Sorry, the question was, were the people mostly people who worked with you or not?  That was the question.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes, I was working with them.

MR LAX: So at this meeting - if you'll allow me, Mr Claassen, I'm sorry to interpose.
	Just to be absolutely clear on this, we are talking about the Sunday meeting, the planning meeting.  At that meeting most of the people present were people who worked at the bacon factory and who lived in the  hostel?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: On the meeting where we planned the attack, the attack on the bus, it was after a general meeting where all people were there and a committee came out from that general meeting to go and discuss the plan because we were not going to discuss the plan in a general meeting, so therefore a committee was delegated to go and discuss the plan.
	After the general meeting where all the people attended, we had a meeting where our chairperson was Thokozani Biela and me personally, Hadebe, was present.  It was Agrippa Khunene and two Indunas, Thandagwaki Ndlovu and Sipho Zaccarehia Mhlongo and other people whom I can't remember but we were eight in number, all of us.   The eight people are the people who discussed the plan, we didn't discuss it in the general meeting.

MR LAX: Now just one last question before you continue, Mr Claassen.
	What committee was this?  You keep saying "the committee", "the committee", what committee was it?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: The committee I'm referring to, there are people who held positions in our organisation, they were people who were responsible for, if there's anything that has to be said to the public or things had to be planned, this is the committee which has to sit to discuss it and then take it to the supporters or the whole community in the area.  The committee should sit first before there could be any general meeting with all the members.

MR LAX: Well you see, was it a hostel committee, was it an Inkatha committee, was an Uwusa committee, was it just a Zulu committee of Izinduna, what was it?  Do you understand, it's not clear to us what kind of committee it was and that's why I'm asking you.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: It was an Inkatha committee in the hostel in that region of Ratanda.

CHAIRPERSON: Of which you were the General Secretary?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And of which Mr Biela was the Chair?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, just to lead to the circumstances surrounding, that preceded you.  You referred to the incident at your workplace that particular Monday, what was the political situation like at your place of employment?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: The situation at work on that particular Monday morning, we IFP members were confused, the ANC members were jubilant.  When I was confused as to why they were happy, I would say I was thinking and in my mind it came to my mind that they might be happy because they might have killed one of our members.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, in the time, not that specific day, preceding, let's say a week or more before the incident, what was the situation like in general at your workplace?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Claassen, I'm unable to get the ambit of your question.  If I can't, I think it will be even more difficult for the Mr Hadebe to be able to respond adequately.  Maybe you need to expand when you say what was the situation like in the workplace.  I think he's already explained that the membership at that workplace consisted of two groups who didn't see eye to eye, now do you want anything much more than what has already been placed, and if so, in relation to what?

MR CLAASSEN: Madam Chair, I will leave it at that.
	Mr Hadebe, maybe just in conclusion, how do you feel now about all that has happened?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Presently in my heart I would like to thank for having been given this opportunity to sit before this Commission and I would also like to thank the Commission for having started this process where we can come before it and come and reveal or say everything about ourselves.  I would say because people who were victims are also in the position to come and hear the evidence and know they were injured or how they were affected.  Thanks.