Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-17

CHAIRPERSON: We're now in session.  We are proceeding with the matter of Mvijane which stood down yesterday afternoon.  For the purposes of the record, it's Thursday, the 17th of September 1998.  There are two applications before this session of the Amnesty Committee.  It's the application of Mr Mvijane, number AM7355/94 and the application of Mr Khwankwa, reference number AM3868/96.  Presiding, Denzil Potgieter, together with Advocate Sigodi and Mr Lax.  Representing the Commission, Mr Mapoma, please put yourself on record.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson.  I'm Zuko Mapoma, the evidence leader for the Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We have been notified, it was brought to our attention that arrangements were made yesterday afternoon and some of that discussion with one of the family members is on record and it was brought to our attention that Miss Cambanis was approached with a possible view to assisting the next-of-kin of the deceased in the application.  We are aware of the fact that she has been consulting with the next-of-kin and she is present at the proceedings.  Perhaps, Mr Mapoma, just for the purposes of the record you can perhaps just confirm and put on record the position of Miss Cambanis.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you, Mr Chair.  I'm assisted here by Miss Nomsa Magida.  We have, it is correct, consulted with the family members present this morning.  In essence, regarding the procedure, they persist in their opposition to this application on the grounds that it is neither politically motivated in the sense that this is a continuation of criminal activities of the applicants.  And secondly, on the ground of disclosure, that on the papers before this Committee there are material contradictions in the versions and the truth is not being told on the papers before the Committee.  We have then consulted with family members, together with Mr Mapoma, and they understand that I have not had opportunity to familiarise myself with the papers to the same extent as my learned friend has, and that he's in fact in a better position to oppose the application at this stage than I am and they are therefore satisfied that he continue acting on their behalf in opposing both applications.  Thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Miss Cambanis, thank you very much.  Can I just express our appreciation for making yourself available at very short notice, and for assisting at least in facilitating the hearing of this particular application.  We are indeed indebted to you and to your colleague.  Thank you very much.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  May we be excused.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, ...(inaudible)

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, that takes care of that.  Mr Mbandazayo, would you want to just go on record first?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  My name is Lungelo Mbandazayo.  I'm representing the applicants in this matter.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr Mapoma, is there any other preliminary issue that you wish to deal with before we proceed with the application itself?

MR MAPOMA: Mr Chairman, save to confirm what Miss Cambanis has said, I don't have any other matter to raise at this point.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, there's not much except to say that as there are the second applicant, I'm did not manage to take down an affidavit when it comes to him.  What I will do is that he will, after this first applicant, come and confirm and then he will be subject to questions thereafter on whatever issue which is relevant to this matter.  I will handle the matter in that manner, Mr Chairman.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, thank you.  In fact in anticipation we also know that you had taken the instruction to represent Mr Khwankwa also on very short notice.  So we are indebted to you as well in that regard.  Do you want to proceed with the application of Mr Mvijane first, and you want him sworn in?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, he can be sworn in.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Mvijane, would you please stand.

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: (sworn states)

MR LAX: Sworn in, Chairperson.  You may be seated, Mr Mvijane.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Lax.  Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Mvijane, the affidavit in front of you is also before the Committee.  Do you confirm that this affidavit was made by yourself and you abide by its contents?

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, I do.  I asked somebody to write it down for me, a person who understands English better, and I explained it to him, then he wrote it down.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Mvijane, I'm not talking about your application, I'm talking about the paper in front of you.

NKOSINATHI MPUMELELO MVIJANE: Yes, I do confirm that whatever is contained therein is from me.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, may I proceed then to read the affidavit as usual?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do.
MR MBANDAZAYO
"I, the undersigned, Nkosinathi Mpumelelo Mvijane, do hereby make an oath and states that I'm the applicant in this matter.  The facts to which I deposed are true and correct and within my personal knowledge, unless the context states otherwise.  I was born in Soweto, Gauteng on the 16th of March 1972 and I grew up in the Gauteng Province.  I left school at standard six due to financial problem.  I joined PAC in 1991 and I was recruited by Moss ..."
Mr Chairman, the spelling of Moss will be a double "s".  Thank you.
"...who was an APLA cadre.  At the time he recruited me I was just an ordinary supporter of PAC.  Moss recruited myself Lulamile and Doctor.  He taught us how to handle explosive and weapons."
Mr Mvijane, can you, with regard to that paragraph, tell the Committee, before you were recruited by Moss what were you doing?  What were your activities?