Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-27

MR BENTING: No, the police wanted to make - asked me for statements, but then a friend of us - Mr Betizaki  - she was one of the teachers, the husband of the teacher - then he said to me - to us, you mustn't make statements to them.  We must rather make the statements to them - to the  lawyers and then in that way - that is what we did.

ADV POTGIETER: We understand that - we have  often give that same advice to our clients.

MR BENTING: Ja, because, what he said to me - is, they will turn the statement around.  You know what I mean?  And in that way - they did come and they were annoyed with us.  I can't remember now - I know he was a very big man.  And I didn't stand a chance against him.  I said to him no - we did say we are going to make statements,  but we have changed our mind and our lawyers have told us that we must not do that, so they left.

ADV POTGIETER: I understand.    Just finally, Mr Benting, if you can still remember - or still assist - on that  plan that Ms Burton referred you to, I don't know if you can see that far?

MR BENTING: Yes, I can see so far, is only...[intervention]

ADV POTGIETER: Can you see there are two...[intervention]

MR BENTING: I don't know where...[intervention]

ADV POTGIETER: I want to show you - can you see there are two  circles with the G and an F written in at the bottom  - towards the bottom?

MR BENTING: Yes, I see that yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Just underneath that intersection, now  there is a line that goes from the circle.

MR BENTING: Yes, I see yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Now, where the line ends, where the line of the F ends - that is where the body of a young man was found.

MR BENTING: Was laying.

ADV POTGIETER: Was found or laying - now can you still remember whether that was about the position in which the person was which you saw being shot through the head?

MR BENTING: That was the Kombi that they were suppose to be in.

ADV POTGIETER: Ja, that's  is right.  The one that is a bit over the curb.

MR BENTING: So, the man was lying nearer to the Kombi - more to the center of that.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay - so it's roughly in the same vicinity that that man was lying.

MR BENTING: You see, I had a marker.  There was two trees standing and I parked my bus - if I am seated behind the wheel, then I can look over across in -  I was facing - I was center between those two  trees, that was my marker sir.

ADV POTGIETER: So,  you could place your position of your vehicle by reference of those two trees?

MR BENTING: Correct.  That was the mark, because I was never asked to get out, you see.  That is - that is - and the man was lying more to the center of the road - to that  Crossroads - in the center.

ADV POTGIETER: We are going to ask you - if it is not too much trouble for you - perhaps just to mark it on the plan.  Perhaps somebody can give you a pen or something.  There is a pen behind you.  George has come to the rescue, perhaps you can mark it on the plan.

MR BENTING: I don't know - I haven't got the trees on here.

ADV POTGIETER: You can - just  orientate yourself first of all - just make sure that you do have it.

MR BENTING: You see I  did stop at this distance from the...[intervention]

ADV POTGIETER: From the intersection?

MR BENTING: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: That was about where your bus was?

MR BENTING: Correct - correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Was stopped.

MR BENTING: Ja correct.

ADV POTGIETER: All right.

MR BENTING: And the man was lying here.

ADV POTGIETER: Very good - thank you.  You have marked it on the plan, so we have an idea where the person was.   And then just finally - Mr Benting - from where Ms Smith was sitting, could she also see what was happening in front of you?

MR BENTING: Yes, everybody could have seen.  You see, the bus - it is a civilian 25 seater.  It is a very high bus.  You can see, everybody can see.  Even there was a child sitting in front of me and he could also have seen.  He even said to me - that he saw two people laying under the tree, which I never saw.  They were shot in the head.  That was Cliffie Witbooi.

ADV POTGIETER: That was Cliffie ja.?

MR BENTING: That was Clifford Witbooi.

ADV POTGIETER: Clifford Witbooi.

MR BENTING: He was - he was sitting right across me.  I was driving - you see the front seat is two separate seats where the engine is in the center and he was sitting on the one side.

ADV POTGIETER: And the children you were transporting, are disabled children - are they?

MR BENTING: Correct, yes.  Physically disabled yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mr Benting.

MR BENTING: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Baie dankie.  Thank you very much.  - I just wanted to say Ms Smith - was a soft person, gentle person I mean and you - you - I think that maybe you are quite right that you felt perhaps as a man you might be - were expected to be stronger.
I would want to say and I mean and I  am sure you would agree, that in the nearly one - how many months now - eleven months that we have been listening - we have been struck, in fact, by the incredible strength of women.

MR BENTING: Correct  yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Somebody has found out that usually they said - they have been looking at the evidence that has been brought before the Commission - usually when women come, they come to tell the story of what happened to somebody else.  Mostly they say when men come, they come to tell about to tell about what happened to themselves.   Now it is not the case with you.  But generally and we want to pay our tribute to the women folk, but we want to give thanks also to you.  That you have not been afraid - I mean in all these years that you have held and sought to speak the truth when it was dangerous.  
I mean the fact that your lawyers told you - don't make a statement to the police.  And the police who should have been people to protect society.  Were the enemies of society.

MR BENTING: Correct, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I have said, we don't' usually make findings until the end of - it is going to much-much later, but all of us know that most of the police we had, were not friends of our society.  They were not there to protect people.  Mercifully now, they are changing and we used I mean when we were in the Grand Parade after the March in 1989, we said we must now clap the police, because they are becoming our police.  They are becoming what police should be - protectors of the people.
But our history is a history that is made up of those who should have protected society, being the enemies of society.   We give thanks to God that we are here today.  And that we can tell these stories and that we must not forget what has happened - so that we do not allow it to happen again.

MR BENTING: Correct yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR BENTING: Thank you.