Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken to Ramkraal, from there we were taken to Park Road, from Park Road we were taken to Fountain Street.

MR STANDER: What happened at Fountain Street?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: When we were taken out of the van we met Motsamai and other police waiting for us outside.  Motsamai said to us I was waiting for you, hold each other by hand, I am going to marry you.  We entered the passage called Violent Street.  We were directed to the kitchen.  Then we entered the kitchen.

MR STANDER: What happened after you were taken into the kitchen?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were grouped and the three of us were taken to a particular room and we were interrogated.  They produced an album, but we did not want to repress whether we know those people or not.  Then Motsamai assaulted us.

MR STANDER: How did Motsamai assault you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He was slapping us.  He was assaulting us on the face.  I would not be able to explain how.

MR STANDER: Who were all present on that occasion when Motsamai assaulted you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Where?  You mean in the kitchen?

MR STANDER: I am now referring to your particular group.

CHAIRPERSON: If I understand you, Motsamai assaulted you in a room where he showed you photographs, not in the kitchen and I think the question is who was in that room.

MR STANDER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that is so.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: In that room it was myself and my two sisters and Motsamai.

MR STANDER: Who were your two sisters?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is Mildred and Don.

MR STANDER: Were you taken back to the kitchen at a later stage?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is correct.  After we were assaulted in that room, after we denied to respond to those questions we were taken back to the kitchen.

MR STANDER: What happened further on that specific day, I am now referring to the first day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were waiting, we were taken to the kitchen and we were taken again one by one and we were made to identify people in the photo until, we refused to say we know them or we do not know them.

MR STANDER: What time did you leave there that day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: It was at night, it was dark, I do not know what time was it.

MR STANDER: Where were you taken?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken to Glen.

MR STANDER: Were there any female police officers present on the first day when you were questioned at Fountain Street?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: No, there were no female police.

MR STANDER: What happened on the second day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: On the second day we were taken from Glen back to Fountain.  At Fountain we were taken again, we were taken by Mamome.

MR STANDER: What did Mr Mamome do to you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: When he took us to a particular room he had a cord.  It looked like a kettle cord.  He was beating us with that cord, the three of us.

MR STANDER: Were you assaulted with that by Mr Mamome?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I do not know why, because he took us there, he interrogated us.  Then he pulled that cord and assaulted us with it.

MR STANDER: In the statement that you made and which has been placed before the Committee, you mention ... (intervention). MR VISSER OBJECTS

MR VISSER: This is a terribly leading question.  He can ask the witness this.  It has to do with her credibility.  We know that credibility is an issue here.

MR STANDER: Were any other police officers present.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Yes, in the kitchen there were other policemen.

MR STANDER: Can you remember who they were?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: This I remember is Ngo, Mafisa, Motsamai, Molefe.  It was Motsamai, Mafisa, Molefe, Ngo.  Other, others I know, but I just forget the names.

MR STANDER: Were any Whites present there?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is correct.

MR STANDER: Do you know who they were?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: The one I remember is Erasmus.

MR STANDER: Did Warrant Officer Erasmus do anything to you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He was assaulting us while the time we were taking photo's, because at that time we were crying.  That is the person who was assaulting us on the face.

MR STANDER: How did he assault you?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I do not know how, I will not say how, but he was hitting us with his hands.

MR STANDER: Do you mean that he slapped you with an open hand or with his fist, what do you mean?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He would push you or your head underneath with his fist if you do not want to respond.

MR STANDER: What happened thereafter?  I am now referring to after the second day.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken back to the kitchen.

MR STANDER: Were you interrogated any further on that day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were interrogated three consecutive days.

MR STANDER: Where were you taken then?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: After the assault, interrogation they would take us back to the kitchen.

MR STANDER: Were there any female police officers present on the second day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I said there are no female police at Fountain, I have not seen them there.

MR STANDER: While you were detained at Glen were you ever visited by any other police officers from the security branch?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: You mean visiting us?  No, I did not see any police visiting us there.

MR STANDER: How did it happen that you were released at a later stage?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were taken to court.  Whilst we were at court they read for us the statement.  Then we said their statement is not complete, we should make our own statement, so they took us back to Glen, Glen Police Station.  From there we were released there.

MR STANDER: Of which political organisation were you a member?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: Myco, that Manung Youth Congress.

MR STANDER: I have no further questions for this witness, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STANDER

ADV DE JAGER: You testified about the first day, the second day and the third day.  According to your testimony on the first day, you were assaulted by Motsamai, on the second day, Mamome was the person you took you and on the third day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: That is Motsamai.

ADV DE JAGER: Was anything done to you on the third day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: He assaulted us.

ADV DE JAGER: Where did this take place?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: You mean where Motsamai assaulted me?  He assaulted me in such a way that my teeth were loose and even now I do not have the tooth on my left-hand side.

ADV DE JAGER: Did this take place in the kitchen or where, in which place?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were assaulted in those private rooms where they assaulted us all the time.

ADV DE JAGER: And who was with you on the third day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: You mean the time when we were assaulted?

ADV DE JAGER: Yes.

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: We were three, but on the third day we were taken one by one.  We were assaulted individually.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you see any of the assaults on the other persons or could you not see what was happening to them, I am now referring to your sisters, on that specific day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: I did not see them when they were assaulted on the third day.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Sorry Mr Visser, who assaulted you on the third day?  I am asking you this question, because I am under the impression that there is some variance between your, what you say in your language, in your own language and the interpretation.  I may be wrong, but I just wanted to be clear about this.  Who assaulted you on the third day?

MILDRED NTHABISENG LEKITLANE: On the third day it was Motsamai and Mamome.