Human Rights Violation Hearings — Leandra — 1997-06-03

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Simelane, can you hear me through your earphones?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Yes, I can.

CHAIRPERSON: And could you please explain to us who is with you.

MATHEW SIMELANE: The one seated by me is my wife.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We would like to welcome you here.  Please feel relaxed.  Thank you very much for agreeing to come and also agreeing to be the first witness.  It is always a difficult thing to do.  Before I ask Tom Manthata to lead your evidence could I please ask you to stand and take the oath.

MATHEW SIMELANE: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr Simelane, you are here today to tell us the story of, particularly of your daughter, Nokuthula, and I would ask Tom Manthata, please, to lead your evidence.  Thank you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Simelane and Mrs Simelane, you are welcome and should you at any stage find yourself choked by emotions, please take your time and take your time to relate this story.  Mr Simelane, are you working?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Yes, I am working.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You are working.  And Mrs Simelane?

MATHEW SIMELANE: We work together.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You are working together as what?

MATHEW SIMELANE: We have a business, we own a business.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You have got a business.  And the children, are they still at school?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Only one is at school.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Only one is at school.  Thank you.  As it has been said already by the Chairperson, can you please tell us the story of your missing daughter, Nokuthula Simelane.

MATHEW SIMELANE: Nokuthula disappeared in 1983.  She was attending at the University of Swaziland.  Just when we were preparing to go and attend her graduation, that is when we discovered that she has disappeared and nowhere to be found.  We searched all over for Nokuthula and we never found Nokuthula.  Even at the border we went to enquire if she has crossed and to no avail.  Some in Swaziland said the ANC people sent her to the Republic and we went to the ANC people and they denied any knowledge of Nokuthula.  We searched everywhere.  Even the neighbouring countries like Botswana, we went to search for Nokuthula.  No one came to the surface to tell us about Nokuthula.  Even the policemen could not help us in that regard.
 In 1985 we decided to approach the press.  Her picture appeared in the newspaper and one police contacted us after seeing her picture on the newspaper and said he knew that girl, because he kept guard at that girl in Vlakplaas Police Station and the last time that police saw Nokuthula, Nokuthula was ill and she was severely and brutally tortured.  The investigation stated afresh now and the matter was under investigation.  The Investigating Officer, Neville Toms, investigated the issue further and until the final part of it, but they still could not give us any sound matter in as far as Nokuthula's issue is concerned.  All what we want now are her remains so we could bury Nokuthula in a decent way.  In our culture we bury people decently and we would like to do that.  
 Finally, we found out that the policemen who arrested her, two of them were suspended.  That they were suspended because they were investigating this matter.  That is Coetzee and Pretorius and the ones that we do not know are the other three, because all of them were five in number.  We found out that they have applied for amnesty.  Still when I heard about their application, amnesty application I heard that they applied, that they had kidnapped Nokuthula and tortured Nokuthula and that was the end.  They never mentioned any other thing beside that.  I would like to know even more.  What happened to my daughter and after the torture what was done to her.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes.  Do you mind telling us the name of the  police who tipped you after seeing the press coverage about the whereabouts of Nokuthula?

MATHEW SIMELANE: I will not disclose the other name.  We called the other one Mr X.  The ones that came to my house, the officers, was Neville Toms and Captain Lisk.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you and what was Nokuthula doing at the University of Swaziland, that is study-wise?

MATHEW SIMELANE: She was studying and enroled for B.Admin.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And you did not know that she could have affiliated to ANC at the time?

MATHEW SIMELANE: I suspected that, but she never made mention of that fact to me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What did you suspect, Mr Simelane?

MATHEW SIMELANE: I suspected that the ANC was using her, because at one stage it was discovered in Swaziland that they were corresponding that were delivered at my brother-in-law's place.  Those were in exile and the ANC members were using her to go to the Republic.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you approached ANC offices did they say they did not know where she had gone to or they said they did not know that she was a member of ANC?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Often times than not it would be my wife going to the ANC offices and what she will tell me is that they will say we do not know, maybe her boyfriends know better.  Some said she might be in Germany or West Germany.  They never told us the truth.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But finally, have they owned that she was in their camps, that is after all these press disclosures?

MATHEW SIMELANE: After the newspaper issue some approached us and told us that they, she was there and she was being used and a very brave woman, but they never told us before the newspaper article.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So you have said it that the torturers have since applied for amnesty and which means, what we need to know is where she was buried and, of course, how was she killed.  Is this what you are saying?

MATHEW SIMELANE: I want to know that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: No further questions, Mr Simelane, back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, thank you Mr Manthata.  I will ask the other Commissioners if they have any questions.  Wynand.

MR MALAN: Thank you.  Mr Simelane, just really one question and this relates to the suspended people in your statement.  You say that two members of the police were suspended.  You named them now as Coetzee and Pretorius.

MATHEW SIMELANE: That is correct.

MR MALAN: You also gave us a copy of a news report in The Star of May five 1996 where reference is made to the suspension of these two people.  The article quotes a spokesman of NCIS, Reg Crew and he says simply we have to treat them as suspects at this stage, referring to the two suspended people.  Now this is a year and a month ago.  Have you had any further information relating to developments here?

MATHEW SIMELANE: No, all that I know is that they have applied for amnesty.

MR MALAN: Are you saying your information is that Coetzee and Pretorius applied for amnesty?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Yes, those are the only two, they have applied for amnesty and the other three that I do not know their names.

MR MALAN: Were you informed that they applied for amnesty also in relation to Nokuthula's disappearance?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Yes, they did notify me.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce.  Mr Simelane and Mrs Simelane, I would like to just ask one more question.  In the Sowetan story about Nokuthula they describe her as MK's Mata Hari.  Do you have any doubts in your own mind that that was a description that fitted her and her activities?

MATHEW SIMELANE: No, I do not have any doubts.

CHAIRPERSON: So that you do not yourself have any doubt as to who might have been responsible for her disappearance?

MATHEW SIMELANE: Will you please repeat your question.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any doubt as to who was responsible for her disappearing?

MATHEW SIMELANE: It is a little bit difficult to admit there, because I know she was being used and sent as a courier of ANC and suddenly thereafter she disappeared, but what hurts the most is that they never told me the truth and also that the never sent her, they pretended as if they did not know Nokuthula at all.