Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Dominee Swanepoel for your contribution. My colleague   Dr Mgojo.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much brother Swanepoel. It is nice to be with you   here. It reminds me of the days when you came with your church to become an   observer in the SACC when things were tough and with others you did pave your   way and I remember it was a day of celebration when we received you in the SACC   as an observer church.
Thank you very much for your input. The history of your church has been a painful   one indeed. But I must say that it has not been very different from other churches.   Some of the experiences which you experienced in your Dutch Reformed Church,   are the experiences which have been felt even in the English speaking churches.
I think that needs to be clear. What I want to ask here, miracles do happen.   You have seen when we met with the Apostolic Faith Mission, the church which   was affected as your church has been affected, do you think that there is any   way or do you feel motivated by what you have seen from that church where confessions   were made publicly between the household of that church and then reconciliation   had also to be processed within that church in public so that the church can   be one, even before they can try to move out to promote reconciliation in the   outer world?
I say this because of the testimonies which were made here by some of the people   who came out of the mother church. They came out very bruised and hurt, because   of what happened there.
You as the mother church maybe you need to take a very big initiative to see   that confession may be and asking for forgiveness from those churches as the   mother church can take place. Do you feel that you are able to do that as the   Dutch Reformed Church, to address this which has been mentioned here by the   Belydende Kring, I don't know how to pronounce the Afrikaans words, and also   the United Reformed Church this morning?
You are speaking about the people who were very hurt on the way, thus covering   the great mission of your church in this country, thank you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Mgojo. I do want to admit that without hearing   each other in confession, there can be no reconciliation. Alongside with our   confession to God and reconciliation which God grants us, it is necessary for   a church and its members to do public confession. 
We are currently in the process with a consideration of the confession of our   church. I hear they speak of the mother church, we would rather consider ourselves   to be sister churches in these days, and we are sending a document around amongst   our people to have a confession accepted.
With this I want to say that we are attempting although public confession in   my view, must be a part of the process and I would believe that at the right   time we will achieve this, so from our side we can come to the fore at a certain   time to apologise for that which we had done wrong, so that we can take hands   and walk into the future together.

CHAIRPERSON: Bongani Finca?

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mr Chairman. I have two questions to direct to you Dominee.   My observation and I don't know whether it is correct, but through reading in   the media, the press, my observation is that many in the Afrikaans community   have not fully embraced the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
I would like to have the benefit of your comments as a leader of a denomination   that is primarily working in that community. You are in touch with people at   the grassroots. You have a better feel of the pulse of the community. Am I right   that there is a problem generally in the Afrikaans community with the work of   the TRC and if so, what are the real problems with the work of the Truth and   Reconciliation Commission?

UNKNOWN: With regard to members of the Dutch Reformed Church, I would   like to react in the following way. That which had appeared before you, was   the pain and the sadness from the heart primarily of one group of people. In   that regard, they might well have felt that it was not fair or equitable although   from my side, of course I know that the injustice was one sided.
That is the only way in which I can explain the situation. People might have   felt, Afrikaans people, that that which had come from the old order was considered   to be entirely wrong and that was all pushed to the side. I must say to you   that there are a large group of people who do not want to accept the work of   this Commission, and who do have a negative attitude towards the Commission.
But I do believe that the voices of those who would say that as believers and   as a church we have responsibility to make a contribution wherever reconciliation   occurs, that would be the case, and that is why in our church we continue again   and again to ask. It is my view that this Commission had been given and our   denomination prays for the Commission.
We do not pray that the Commission must fail, we pray that your work and what   I have seen in the past two days and which I appreciate very much, that we pray   that God will bless this. Certainly a large number of our people do not accept   your work, but there is a group who pray that your work also as individuals   will be blessed.

BONGANI FINCA: My second question is on the number of applicants who come before   the Amnesty Committee of the Commission to apply for amnesty and who in their   testimony to the Amnesty Committee actually blame the teachings of their church   and say that they were misled by their church, into believing that the things   that they did, were actually in the service of the interest of the gospel of   Jesus Christ, that the church blessed their weapons of terror, that the church   ministered to them, encouraged them.
Does the Dutch Reformed Church feel that there is any room for repenting together   with those who apply for amnesty?

UNKNOWN: Rev Finca, I would begin to reply in this way. We have indeed   taught our people wrongly with regard to apartheid as a Biblical instruction.   If you teach them that this is the way of the Bible, in fact you instruct them   how they should act, and in this regard certainly the church has confessed that   it is guilty and we are experiencing an inner struggle to change around and   turn around in this regard.
When a person appears before you, applying for amnesty, it is indeed true that   he can say that this gospel was taught to him in this way.
Certainly there had been different messages sent at a later stage, but people   can certainly make this claim. Whether we would want to do something with these   people, alongside these people in their process, most of these people prefer   personal accompaniment and pastoral ministry from their ministers, there have   been no request for a larger process brought to us, but I hear what you say   and we could certainly consider such a process.
Up until now, these people had been individually accompanied by their ministers   in their local congregations in a pastoral sense.