Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-17

MR VISSER: Well, one of you must have taken it there?

MR MALAN: No, why Mr Visser?  Why should one of them have taken it?

MR VISSER: Well, it had to have arrived there in some manner.

MR MALAN: Yes, but there were other men there.

CHAIRPERSON: And there were how many other men there?

MR VISSER: That is where my question is leading to Mr Chairman.  Were any of the others persons that you recall today, near the grave?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, at the time of the elimination it was only me and Wasserman, Taylor and Forster who were on the farm.  The other persons had all left.

MR VISSER: Where were Forster and Taylor?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: They were inside the house.

MR VISSER: And they weren't by the grave?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No.

MR VISSER: You said that the lime was sprinkled over her, that the bag was left there and then soil was filled into the grave?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Was anything else placed over the body?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Refuse bags were thrown over her.

MR VISSER: The contents thereof?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: The contents of refuse bags, they were in plastic bags.

MR VISSER: What was the reason for that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: So that if anybody were to dig around there, it would look like a rubbish dump.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, did you know why you had to sprinkle lime on the body?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: The purpose for that was to remove any odour for wild animals who might start digging around there.

ADV SIGODI: Who told you that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think that it was Mr Taylor who arranged it.

ADV SIGODI: When did he tell you that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I can't specifically recall whether or not I asked him about the lime, but after the lime had been sprinkled, it became known to me that it would divert odour.

ADV SIGODI: Did you get to know about this before sprinkling the lime or after you had sprinkled it, that it would divert the odour?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think afterwards.  I don't know whether or not it really would have worked that way.
	But I did this because Taylor said so.

MR MALAN: You didn't see the lime there, you didn't see anybody bringing the lime, and you didn't see Wasserman bringing it in.  You assumed that it was him, because the others were never at the grave, didn't you ask him why he had brought this lime to the graveside?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, as I have already said, the lime which was sprinkled was to remove any odour.

MR MALAN: Yes, but you said that you heard this from Mr Taylor and you think that it was afterwards.  In afterwards what you are saying is that when you sprinkled it, you already knew that it was to remove odours.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct, but I don't know who put the bag there, it could have been Wasserman or Taylor or perhaps even Forster still.

MR VISSER: When would Taylor have told you about lime which removes odour if this was before this occurrence, because you didn't know that the lime was going to be there, yet you found it there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Then, why would Taylor have discussed lime with you, was there a previous incident in which you had been involved?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: You cannot explain the chronological order to us, you can just tell us that the lime was there, and secondly you didn't know then that it would remove odour?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Shortly afterwards, I knew.

MR MALAN: But you didn't ask Wasserman why the lime was there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I can't remember having asked Wasserman.

MR MALAN: Thank you Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: Mr Du Preez, there was indeed a previous incident, however you were not involved in that incident, that was the incident of Deon Cele is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I know about that incident.

MR VISSER: But Wasserman indeed had been involved in that case.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, I heard that.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Kubeka buried?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Negative Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: The first matter in which he applied for amnesty for.

MR VISSER: Perhaps you should just state the case of Tombi Kubeka, in 1987, was that a case of elimination?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Negative.

MR VISSER: What happened there, just briefly?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was the disposal of a body after she had died of natural causes.

MR VISSER: Natural causes then, so it is the disguising of a body?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR VISSER: After you had filled in the grave, you all left?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Just to move back a little, with regard to information received, you have heard Botha and the evidence which he gave regarding the information which Ndwandwe provided to him, at Onverwacht and also during the journey to Pietermaritzburg and also possibly thereafter, it doesn't really matter where, but it was with regard to certain incidents which she referred and regarding which she had given information as to who had been responsible for those incidents.  Did you listen to that evidence?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And is that in accordance with your recollection at that stage?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: When Taylor told you that you were to dig the grave and eliminate Ndwandwe, did you regard this as an order?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Was it an order with which you agreed?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And you have already stated that you also agree with the evidence of Botha regarding his motivation or the political objective with regard to this action?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And that was chiefly about Ndwandwe's activities from Swaziland as manifested in units in the Port Natal area?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Can we then move over to Pumeso Nxiweni?  Can you just tell us what your share was in that case?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: In that case, Mr Botha had an informer who arranged a meeting with Nxiweni and we arrested him at the rendezvous point.

MR VISSER: That was on the 4th of November 1988 as we understand it?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And it was Botha, yourself and Van der Westhuizen?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.  We then took him to a safe house.

MR VISSER: We know that it was at the Kingspark stadium?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: You took him to a safe house and then what happened?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is where we interrogated him.

MR VISSER: With what purpose?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: In order to obtain information from him with regard to terrorist activities in Durban.

MR VISSER: Weapon stockpiling points.

MR VISSER: yes, weapon stockpiling points.

MR VISSER: Did you interrogate him?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, I did.

MR VISSER: Did you assault him?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: He was assaulted, I assaulted him.

MR VISSER: In what way?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was slapping and punching with a balled fist.

MR VISSER: Where?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: In the face and on the body.

MR VISSER: And in the face?  As a result of the interrogation, did any information emerge?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, information did emerge.