Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Please, sir, I object to that.

DR KLATZOW: Have you lodged your objection Captain Mitchell?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes.

DR KLATZOW: Precisely the point that your stomachs are not the same would be most unlikely for everybody whose stomachs are not the same to be being served a meal somewhere in the middle of this flight just at top of descent as you would have this Commission believe.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Not unreasonable, ...(intervention)

DR KLATZOW: It is totally unreasonable.

DR KLATZOW: Sir, you are not a pilot.

DR KLATZOW: Is that your answer Captain Mitchell?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: ...(indistinct)

DR KLATZOW: Right, now, are you - will you accept that at least one interpretation that can be put on the fact that a meal was being served was that that flight recorder stopped functioning nearer Taipei than to Mauritius, will you accept that that is one possibility?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: One of the others too.

DR KLATZOW: Would you accept that it is one possibility?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: It's unlikely.

DR KLATZOW: I've not asked you whether it's likely or not, would you accept that it is one possibility?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: A highly unlikely possibility.

DR KLATZOW: Tell me why it is so unlikely.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I don't know what your point is that you're making.

DR KLATZOW: Just tell me why it is an unlikely possibility.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: That a meal would be served and the cockpit voice recorder stopped there, that's highly unlikely, its ...(intervention)

DR KLATZOW: Well the cockpit voice ...(intervention)

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: ...(inaudible)

DR KLATZOW: We know that the cockpit voice ...(intervention)

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: You're a Scientist, you should know this.

DR KLATZOW: We know the cockpit voice recorder stopped as a result of fire.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Correct.

DR KLATZOW: We know that it records the last  1/2  hour of conversation in the cockpit,

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Okay.

DR KLATZOW: We know that there is a discussion about a dinner on that tape-recording.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Which fits my descent.

DR KLATZOW: You say it fits the descent?  We'll get to that in a minute.  Can you give me one reason why Jimmy Mouton's interpretation is so unreasonable that it should be disregarded?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I think it would be unreasonable to disregard it at all, I think it's one of the possibilities, but certainly isn't the only one.

DR KLATZOW: Why was it disregarded?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I don't know.

DR KLATZOW: I want to put it to you that you were present when Margo persuaded them not to put that on, and that they were threatened, and today, Captain Mitchell, they are still, all four of them, are still extremely intimidated, their families were threatened.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, I'm not aware of this.

DR KLATZOW: I want to put it to you that you were aware of it.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sorry, you're wrong.

DR KLATZOW: Right.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just ask, before you get on with it.  You said you were not in Judge Margo's chambers when he is supposed to have put these threats, I mean these indications that, look your family and national security an all that, but in the course of replying that, you said you visited him at his place, at his home.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What was that all about?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sir, that exactly - I was scratching my head to find a reason as to - I know I was there because I know how to get to his house, I hadn't been there before, and I've been thing of what is the reason I went there.  I'm not a friend of Judge Margo at all, so I was never a visiting friend or anything like that, so I went there for a purpose.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it at his invitation?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes, definitely, I wouldn't go there otherwise, oh, definitely.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think you might find it possible to recall what it was all about?  I say so because, you know, there is another proposition that is being put,

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And it's a very serious proposition, it comes from more than one witness who state that the whole enquiry was sought to be derailed by a Judge who for good or for bad reasons had felt that it was in the national interest, no less, that certain evidence should be suppressed, that, you know, the enquiry should be led in a different direction that that which the evidence might point, and that certain people were being persuaded to take certain position which ...(indistinct) would not liked to have taken.  Now, and therefor you are one of the people who is indicated to as having been present when this was made, and where you deny that, and I can live with your denying, but where in the process of denying that particular meeting you say, no, the only time that I ever visited Margo was when I went to his home.  And why I'm asking is because I'm quite concerned that a Judge who is presiding in any enquiry of that nature should actually be visited, at his own invitation, at his home in circumstances where it might suggest that he was placing himself in a very invidious position.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: An invidious position?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I take note of that Commissioner.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Klatzow?  I'm just saying maybe it will be in all our interest for you to remember exactly what it was, you see, that you ...(inaudible)

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I give you my word, if I get it there, I'm here, I've got nothing to hide, I'm at your behest, sir, but I - there's just something that I remember driving in and I can't put my finger on it what we were there for, I'd rather not say it was that or this, because I actually - is it possible to approach the Judge and ask him?

CHAIRPERSON: We can explore that, but from all accounts it looks like the Judge is a bit on the old side now, he's very senile.  Anyway, you said it was you, who else was there, you said when "we"?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I was by myself when I - I went there by myself.  And when I got out my car I remember a car drove out, to my memory, I think it was ...(indistinct), but again, I don't want to point fingers at somebody and I'm not sure who it was, but I know I went there.

CHAIRPERSON: But you recall also that as you went in some people were leaving and it is your considered opinion, though doubtful that it must have been Flight Engineers.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I think.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, again, in the light of what is being put, you see ...(intervention)

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I get your point.