Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR WILLS: ...[inaudible] that the case because I'm ready to proceed with Hlongwane if the Committee wishes?

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] now to take a break.  If we could start now and we will go through to four because if we take a break it will probably be too short to recommence.

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you, I call Mr Hlongwane.

MR HLONGWANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Hlongwane, you are known by a number of names, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just before you start, it's just been pointed out to me his name is spelt differently on occasions in the record.

ADV MOTATA: If you have regard to page 127, it's spelt with an N-I and if you have regard to page 130, it's spelt with an N-E.  We would want to know what is the correct spelling of his name, his surname rather.

MR WILLS: Possibly you can help us, how do you spell your surname Mr Hlongwane?

MR HLONGWANE: Which name?

CHAIRPERSON: Hlongwane.  Has it got an E on the end or an I on the end?

MR HLONGWANE: It has an E.

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Committee Member, that is my mistake, that is my handwriting on that application.
	Mr Hlongwane, you are known by a number of names, is that not so?  One of them for example is Sadam, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And you're also known as Njoni, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You're also known as Hlelangla Langa, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you made an application for amnesty which commences at page 127 of the record and you attached to that application form a lengthy affidavit which runs from page 130 to page 202 of the record.  Do you confirm the contents of that affidavit?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And to the best of your knowledge and to the best of your recollection, are the averments contained therein correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: I want to turn now to page 130 of the record to commence your affidavit.  You're a convicted ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think he has a copy of the affidavit before him Mr Wills.  Yes, Mr Wills you can proceed.

MR WILLS: Thank you.
	Have you got the front page of your affidavit, it's page 130?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: He's now getting swamped with affidavits.

MR WILLS: Okay, you've got that affidavit.  Is it not correct that you are a convicted prisoner also being held in Westville Prison in KwaZulu Natal, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And is it also not your averment that you are or were an assassin working for the Inkatha Freedom Party, your mandate was to kill political opponents of the IFP?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane, you don't have to read everything.  If I want you to read something in your affidavit I will refer you to it but if you want to refer to it on your behalf just indicate that to me.  I'm not expecting you to read everything and I'm certainly not going to trick you with any questions of that nature.  Just relax, listen to my questions and answer them.

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, I understand.

MR WILLS: Right.  You say that - and now I do want to refer you to paragraph 3, that essentially you say there that this affidavit concerns a lot of information, that had you not given this information nobody would have known about it at any stage, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And that includes a great deal of information about matters which you haven't been charged for in any way whatsoever, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now I want to start on page 3 of your affidavit, page 132 of the record, paragraph 8, when you joined the IFP in Mpumalanga.  You were born in 1968, you grew up in Mpumalanga and you just had a normal schooling and left school after standard six and at that stage you weren't very concerned with politics, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Would you please give Mr Hlongwane an opportunity to state his case so that if you do not understand please do not make your own noise because this interferes with our proceedings.  We will try our best that Mr Hlongwane should speak a little louder so that everybody within the hall should hear him.

MR HLONGWANE: I will try.

MR WILLS: Okay.  What political party did your parents belong to?

MR HLONGWANE: They were members of Inkatha here in ...[indistinct] eSizwe.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now you describe that your own entry into active politics occurred as a result of a person by the name of Stembiso Ndlovo who came to you and he wanted to know why Inkatha supporters were coming to your house, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Would you please repeat your question?

MR WILLS: You indicated that your entry into politics was as a result of an approach by one Stembiso Ndlovo who wanted to know why Incatha people were visiting your house in Mpumalanga.

MR HLONGWANE: They did not come to my house, they were asking me about what was happening at home.  Sakele Langa was my cousin, he often came to my home to visit us and one day as I came from work I came across Stembiso Ndlovo and he asked me and he wanted to know that because I indicated to him that I was not a member of any organisation what these members of Inkatha wanted and I indicated to him that I was not Hlongwane but I was Hlongwane's son and I had no authority as to who came to pay us any visit.

MR WILLS: That's right.  And then you approached Zakele Nkethle in regard to this incident, is that ...[intervention]

SISI KHAMPEPE: Not Nkethle Mr Wills, you must be getting tired.  I think it's Zakele Langa and I think Mr Stembiso Ndlovo you referred to is not his cousin, that's his neighbour.  I must be getting tired Mr Wills.

MR WILLS: Thank you Miss Committee Member.
	Just to repeat that questions, eventually - you were obviously concerned about this approach that Stembiso Ndlovo had made to you and so eventually you went to Zakele Nkethle in order to discuss this with him, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And why did you go to this person?

MR HLONGWANE: I did because I had spoken to my cousin and my cousin had told me that they would not help me unless I was a member of Inkatha.

MR WILLS: And why did you need help?

MR HLONGWANE: At that time there was already fighting between the UDF and Inkatha although there wasn't shooting between these two parties.  There was an organisation that had been launched, HIKO.  This organisation prevented school children from being hit.

MR WILLS: Okay, so am I correct in assuming that because this Thembiso Ndlovo who was known to be a UDF person had approached you in this manner, you felt threatened, you felt a fear that you were going to be attacked?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is the truth.

MR WILLS: And you went to Nkethle, Zukele Nkethle for protection?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, I went to Zukele Nkethle who was a Central Committee member of the Inkatha.

MR WILLS: And what did he say to you?

MR HLONGWANE: Zukele said he would not be able to help me unless I joined the IFP as they did not render assistance to non-IFP members.

MR WILLS: And did this result in you paying your R1-50 and joining the IFP?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, before this period - and you recall this as to be sometime during 1985, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, although I cannot remember the dates correctly but I think it was in 1985.

MR WILLS: Before this event, when you approached Mr Nkethle, you had not been involved in any crimes whatsoever, is that correct, or any of the political violence?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now what happened when you became a member of the IFP in that area?