Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-17

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: There was no specific person who said to me they would come back and kill me.  It was through conversation in the kombi.

MR KNIGHT: So it was just your perception because Mr Shabalala will say that he has no recollection of any conversation along those lines at that time.  He doesn't dispute that there might have been a chat along the way about general operations but his feeling is that being a co-operative unit there would never have been the necessity or any, it would never have come into their mind to make any threats of this nature against a fellow policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: In his evidence there is no suggestion that there were any direct facts, you know, at him, but it emerged in their description of how they operate that if a person does not participate in an operation, they usually come back and kill the person.  And presumably from that he assumed that if he does not participate in this operation, they may well come back and kill him.  That's how I understand his.

MR KNIGHT: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I won't take the matter further.  Mr Chairman if you would just bear with me, I'm almost finished.

MS SIGODI: I just want to ask a question from the Applicant.  When this was said, if you don't participate in an operation then they would come back and kill the person, when was this said?  Was it said before you went to collect the deceased or was it said, at what stage was it said?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was on the way to Xala.

MS SIGODI: Before?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Before we reached Xala.

MS SIGODI: And in what context, what specific operation were they referring to?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't know but it was just a conversation, specifically there was no operation that were.

MS SIGODI: There was no operation that you had in mind at that time?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MS SIGODI: You did not know, did you know that Batandwa was going to be killed or did you not know?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No, I did not know.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Knight.

MR KNIGHT: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR KNIGHT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hugo?

MR HUGO: Thank you Mr Chairman, I just have a few questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR HUGO

MR HUGO: Mr Dandala you, are you still a member of the South African Police?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes, that's correct.

MR HUGO: So no steps have been taken against you since this incident?  Disciplinary steps?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No there were no disciplinary steps.

MR HUGO: And where are you at present stationed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: At Umzimkulu.

MR HUGO: Which is where?  Is it still part of the Transkei, sorry.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes, part of Transkei.

CHAIRPERSON: Where are you stationed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Umzimkulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you just speak up Mr Dandala if you don't mind?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.  Okay, thank you.  I'm stationed at Umzimkulu.

MR HUGO: And Mr Dandala what is your present rank in the South African Police?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I am an Inspector.

MR HUGO: So you have been promoted fairly rapidly since that particular incident, is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR HUGO: Would you say this was in the normal course of events or do you think it actually happened quicker than what normally is the case?  If you understand what I'm trying to get at?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I don't understand.

MR HUGO: Well, let me put it rather bluntly.  Were you rewarded in the sense that you got promoted to you present position or was there nothing untoward about your promotion?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No, I was not rewarded.  It was as normal promotion.

MR HUGO: I see in your affidavit that you joined the police in 1982.  Sorry Mr Chairman there's a bit of a problem, it's fine.  In 1982 you underwent your initial training at the Umtata Police College for a period of six months, is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes that's correct.

MR HUGO: And then you were at Mount Frere Police Station in the uniform branch, is that also correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR HUGO: You were then recruited to become a member of the security branch whilst you were there at Mount Frere.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: At Mount Frere, yes.

MR HUGO: Now by whom were you recruited?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't know.  To the security branch, I don't know.

MR HUGO: What was your understanding as to what your functions would be when you were recruited from the uniform branch to become a member of the security branch?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I knew that I'm going to trace, I'm going to look for people who are doing subversive activities against the Government.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: What was your understanding as to what subversive activities would entail?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: By that time it was terrorism.

MR HUGO: Well terrorism in what sense, who were the terrorists?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: The people who went abroad and have trainings in some other countries.

MR HUGO: Was it ever mooted to you that they should be or should deem to be members of a freedom organisation like the ANC or the PAC?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes, those people.

MR HUGO: That was your understanding?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR HUGO: And you were to work on members of the ANC and PAC that went abroad for training?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR HUGO: Right.  Now I've seen your affidavit.  You then go further and you've said that you were then once more recruited to become a member of the underground security branch which I take is a different section of the security police, is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR HUGO: Now what is the difference between the security, the normal security police and the so-called underground security police?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: The difference is this.  In underground security we were to gather information and bring it to the head of this.  And to spot these trained people so that they can be arrested.  In that effecting of arrest we should not be there.  We should act as if we are not policemen.

MR HUGO: And did you, as an underground security policeman, did you not carry with you any police identity documents I take it?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: We had identity documents.

MR HUGO: But you were not supposed to indicate to the people that you were investigating, that you are from the underground security?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR HUGO: Now, can you just give us an indication of the rank structure that was in place at the time?  Who was your officer commanding in the underground security branch at the time?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was Colonel Booi.

MR HUGO: And how many of you belonged to this particular underground security branch?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: We were five.

MR HUGO: So this whole section just consisted of five of you and I take it then Colonel Booi was the Commander, is that correct?  Six in total?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct.

MR HUGO: And who were the other ones that were part of this particular cell or unit, the other names?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was Bongani Wana.

MR HUGO: Yes.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Nombanga.

MR HUGO: Yes.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Bogela, Ngalani.

MR HUGO: And Colonel Booi, was he a Colonel at the time?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He was not a Colonel at the time, he was a captain.

MR HUGO: And to whom did he in turn report?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Colonel Booi?

MR HUGO: Yes.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: To the head of the security.

MR HUGO: And who was the head of the security at the time?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was General Kawe.

MR HUGO: But was there not somebody else that he had to report to in between the General and himself?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I mean ourselves?