Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-09

WITNESS:  The first one was born in 1966 and the next one 1971, 1972, 1976, the next one is 1980.

MS MAYA:  Are there any of your children who are studying?

WITNESS:  Yes all of them are studying.

MS MAYA:  Which standards are they in?

WITNESS:  The first one is doing second year in Cape College.  The next one, he was doing arts in Port Elizabeth in a coloured school because it's not found in our school.  He was doing a second year when his father died because the school was closed down and they were supposed to go to town and I couldn't afford to pay the fees.

MS MAYA:  What about others?

WITNESS:  The other one is doing motor repair in Zweletemba.  She is a girl.  The other one is studying in Salkoeliga in Fort Beaufort and she is doing standard 8.  The last one is doing standard 9 in Tubaletu, the one born in 1980.  My grandchild is in creche.

MS MAYA:  All of your children, after the death of their father are depending on you?

WITNESS:  Yes they are all depending on me and my cousin is helping me.  My cousin is staying here in Bisho and one member of our family.

MS MAYA:  In the statements we received there are people who said that there were money they got from the lawyers to [indistinct] ?

WITNESS:  Yes there is some money but I'm not satisfied with it.

MS MAYA:  Is there any other place you get help?

WITNESS:  No there is no other place.

MS MAYA:  Do you have a request to this Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes I do have a request.  I ask the Commission - firstly there is something I didn't say.  After I was down and people were hitting me I had a problem with my left kidney and the treatment is so expensive and I can't afford it.  My request to the Commission is that the doctor told me that I couldn't work because of this treatment and I have high blood because my leg sometimes has a problem and I ask the Commission to help me with the education of my children.  Another request is that my husband died, in our township we are so poor and when he died he was formulating bricks for our church because we were going to build a church and he died not finishing that job and I ask the Commission to do that job for us.

MS MAYA:  Is that all you want to say to the Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes but I also ask that the perpetrators be brought forward and prosecuted, those who can be prosecuted.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ms Matikinca.  I will give this opportunity to the Chairman, maybe he has got questions to ask you.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?  Ntsike?

UNKNOWN: I would like to greet you Ms Matikinca and Mr Mafa.  The question that I am going to put to you can be answered by either one of you.  I would like to start by asking on the day that the soldiers were shooting at the people, as people that were there, do you think that there was any need for the soldiers to shoot?

UNKNOWN: ---  No there was no need.

UNKNOWN:  Is there a way in which perhaps the people that were marching that day, in your perception, posed a threat to the soldiers or the buildings in Bisho?

WITNESS:  No, and one would be lying in saying that there was.

UNKNOWN:  Was there any person or persons among those people who were participating in the march that was armed, that had weapons?

WITNESS:  No, no one.

UNKNOWN:  Mr Mafa would you like to add something to that?

WITNESS:  I would like to answer.  The way in which the march was organised, we did not pose any threat to any life and we did not put anyone's life in danger and we ensured that there was not going to be any attacking of any government buildings and besides, this march was being, was under the scrutiny of peace monitors who were specifically there to take care of such circumstances on that day.  That is why we can say with absolute certainty that this was a peaceful march and the intention of that march was to resolve things peacefully and that is what surprised us, that we should see ourselves being fired upon in that fashion.

UNKNOWN:  Finally, let us just go back to where you live in Fort Beaufort.  I find that both of you, when this incident took place, were residents of Fort Beaufort.  Tell me, the march or the meeting that was going to move from King William's Town to Bisho, how did you hear about it in your community?  Were pamphlets distributed or how were you people notified about this meeting?

WITNESS:  Since I was a student at Cape College we were notified by the local branch of the ANC which told our branch of SASKO that there was going to be this march and SASKO in turn informed its members and also the students.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Doctor Boraine?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Chairperson.  We are going to hear from a number of witnesses today and yours is the first and it just brings us right back to the horror of your own experience and I want to say first that we extend to you both our very deepest sympathy.  It's not easy to come to this Commission and to relive what you experienced but if it can help towards the resolution of the conflict as well as the healing of all those concerned then it will be worthwhile.  Mr Mafa I want to say a very brief word of real thanks for your own approach.

UNKNOWN: You have, towards the end of your testimony, spent much more time thinking of other people than yourself.  You refuse to remain a victim.  You are not a victim, you have risen beyond that and your example inspires all of us.  I want to just underline the comment you made about the possibility of a memorial stone of some kind.  I assume you mean that that should be on the site as to exactly where it all took place.  Thank you very much, I just wanted clarity there.

UNKNOWN:  Now you've mentioned that you received some compensation and we are not interested in going into that at the moment but do you receive any kind of disability allowance at all?

WITNESS:  Yes I used to receive a disability grant before I obtained employment but ever since I received employment it has been stopped.

UNKNOWN:  Just one other question concerning your own situation.  You mentioned that one of the problems is getting from home to your work.  I'm just wondering if you have any contact with the social welfare department concerning the possibility of some form of transport, whether you've made some enquiries about that or whether you would like us to try and see if that is a possibility.  We can't promise we can simply say but we will certainly try if you haven't.  Could you tell us about that?

WITNESS:  No I did not get into touch with anybody about my transport but I would like the Commission to, I would appreciate it if the Commission could assist me in that regard.

UNKNOWN: Thank you and finally we all, I think, know now that the court case involving an incident, or much more than an incident, a massacre, which took place four years ago has not yet been resolved but we understand that that court case is going to happen very soon.  It is our hope that some of the questions you have raised, both of you, concerning as to who gave the orders and shot you and who killed people, who was responsible.  Some of these things are going to come out.  Our own investigators obviously will work hand in hand in an attempt to find the truth and we hope that before too long, that truth will be known.  Thank you.