Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR MALAN: I would like to make a last statement and then ask for your comment.  The three, four days before the elections the generals in staff decided to create this psychosis of fear, Mr Terreblanche was not part of that decision, he did not know about it.  Your comment on that?

MR PRINSLOO: That is not the truth.

MR MOTLAUNG: Mr Prinsloo, it is your evidence that you were a generals in staff member of equal standing as any other member thereof, correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Another member of the generals in staff?  I was in the same rank structure as the other members of the generals in staff.  Was that a question?

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes, that is correct.  There was no-one above you in the "generale staf"?

MR PRINSLOO: No, there was kommandant general.

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes, but the kommandant general was not a member of the, he was a member of the general's staff but he actually acquired that title from the wen kommando, correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, he comes from the ranks of the wen kommando.

MR MOTLAUNG: So as far as the generale staf itself was concerned, he didn't assume any higher position than all the other members of the generale staf, correct?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: So in terms of your para-military structuring, why would you have to take instructions, not from the general "generale staf" but from a member, only one member of the generale staf, like General Ackerman?

CHAIRPERSON: He's already testified because Ackerman was a kommandant general.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct Mr Chairman, but it seems to me what Mr Nico Prinsloo is saying is that despite the fact that he had this better title in respect of the wen kommando, that was not necessarily the case that he had a better title in the generale staf, correct?  In the generale staf he was one of the generals, that's the bottom line.

MR PRINSLOO: Me myself?

MR MOTLAUNG: Pardon?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Ackerman?

MR MOTLAUNG: That's correct.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: Let me put it this way, would you take instructions from the wen kommando, you as a member of the ystergarde?

MR PRINSLOO: No, I was from the wen kommando, I was a member of the wen kommando.

MR MOTLAUNG: Were you a member of the wen kommando?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MOTLAUNG: And the instructions relating to the bombings, did they come from the wen kommando or from the ystergarde?

MR PRINSLOO: From the generals in staff of the wen kommando on which members of the ystergarde also served.

MR MOTLAUNG: So the generale staf was actually a level within the wen kommando and not within the ystergarde?

MR PRINSLOO: They were in charge of the ystergarde, that is now the generals in staff as well as the wen kommando and all other sections or sub-sections of the AWB.

MR MALAN: The generale staf is the overarching authority of the whole movement under which the two legs moved out.

MR MOTLAUNG: I see, thank you.
	Now tell me, did the generale staf at any stage take a decision that there will be trailer bombs used?

MR PRINSLOO: No.

MR MOTLAUNG: Did it ever agree that the pipe bombs will be used?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, they did have knowledge about that.

MR MOTLAUNG: But they never knew that anybody intended to plant trailer bombs, that's what you are saying?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, but then I would like to correct it.  In the construction and the building of what the bomb would look like, that was left to the discretion of the person who actually built it.

MR MOTLAUNG: Let's talk about the Germiston bomb.  Do you still stand by what you said yesterday, that you can't remember where it was discussed?

MR PRINSLOO: I never said that I could not remember where it was specifically.  Can you just take me back to that piece of evidence?

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes.  You were asked where was this discussed, was in the "geslote vergadering of in die openbare vergadering", and you then you said you could not remember.  Can you remember that?

MR PRINSLOO: The closed meeting was in the cubicles, the open or public meeting that you are talking about, where was that?

MR MOTLAUNG: I don't know but I understood that there was two types of meetings, the closed one and the open one, is it not so?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I spoke or took it up with Mr Barnard, the fact concerning the trailer.  I then asked Mr de Wet if he would be willing to make his vehicle available with the towbar because it will be able to tow this trailer.  I sent him on a mission that he at that stage did not know what it was about.  I sent him to Koesterfontein.

MR MOTLAUNG: But you can't say whether this was one of those closed meetings or not, where the discussion about the Germiston bomb took place?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I discussed it with Mr Barnard.

MR MOTLAUNG: It was only the two of you?

MR PRINSLOO: There were other members present as well.

MR MOTLAUNG: Was it a closed meeting this?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MR MOTLAUNG: How many people ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, if you call it that it was a close meeting because it wasn't discussed with everybody, that is why it was a closed meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was present when this was discussed?

MR PRINSLOO: If I remember correctly it was myself, Mr Barnard, I speak under correction but I think, Mr van der Merwe, Leon van der Merwe, Mr Myburgh, I think that was it but I speak under correction, I'm not quite sure.

MR MOTLAUNG: Was there a specific commander for that mission, or were you the commander?

MR PRINSLOO: What mission?

MR MOTLAUNG: The Germiston trailer mission.

MR PRINSLOO: No.

MR MOTLAUNG: There was no commander for that mission?

MR PRINSLOO: Well, Mr Barnard was in charge of the building of the bomb and Mr Koekemoer and Mr Myburgh, the Koesterfontein people.

MR MOTLAUNG: Yes, for the construction of the bomb.  I'm talking about the implementation, the execution of the mission.  Was there a commander for that?

MR PRINSLOO: That would have been Mr de Wet.

MR MOTLAUNG: Did you tell him exactly where to go and plant the bomb, yourself?

MR PRINSLOO: It was up to the discretion of the person who was sent to a certain area.  The person would have been chosen to go and plant a bomb in a town.  He had to know the area, the town, he had to know all the exit and entrance routes or then familiarise himself with them.  A person would never go to a place, to a town, which he or she doesn't know.
	I gave Mr de Wet the instruction to go to Koesterfontein where he then further would be informed about what the next steps would be in the execution of this instruction.

MR MOTLAUNG: And who was to give him further instructions?

MR PRINSLOO: Pardon?

MR MOTLAUNG: Who was to give him further instructions at Koesterfontein?

MR PRINSLOO: He would then be schooled there in what to do further.

MR MOTLAUNG: By whom?

MR PRINSLOO: I wasn't at Koesterfontein, I do not know.

MR MOTLAUNG: According to your expectations.

MR PRINSLOO: It might have been Mr Myburgh or Mr Barnard or Mr Koekemoer.  You must realise it had to be detonated by the occupants of the vehicle and he had to be informed as to how to do this.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was the person who sat a map table and organised this whole war?  Without planting a bomb, to look on a map and say this is what happened, this is the next step, who was that person?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson, there wasn't such a specific person, the whole generals in staff had to give the instructions that there would be a countrywide attack.  They would never allow one person to run this war or to give all the instructions.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, history shows us that in any war many things do not go according to plan.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: There are things that people do not foresee and then certain decisions had to be taken to rectify this.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.