Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:   Yes, that's the same Sibankhulu.  Now, during those times, as we have been harassed, I was more tortured in my life after hearing that he is dead.  I have to say that we worked with him from 1982, and in 1983 we formed a new organisation.  It was called Newcastle Youth Organisation.  We continued together working with him and we formed another organisation called Newcastle Residents Association.  During all this time it was our duty to see to it that we teach the community about their rights.  We were supposed to teach the youth about their rights even at schools.  This led us to organising ourselves because the IFP was harassing us.  There were times we couldn't sleep at our homes.  Me and Prof would sleep in the veld.  We couldn't sleep at home because we knew there was harassment from the IFP side.  Even their leaders were involved.  Even the ZP were people working hand in hand with Inkatha.  Some of those people who were harassing us, burning our houses, were ZPs, and they were at the forefront of harassing our people.

MR NTEBEZA: Thank you for this evidence.  Now let's go to June 1985.  Is it in this year where you said you and others - well, I think Professor Sibankhulu was also there - did you start Newcastle Youth Organisation in this year?

WITNESS:  Yes, it was in that year.

MR NTEBEZA: This organisation, how was it related to United Democratic Front?

WITNESS:   After forming this youth organisation we deemed it fit that this organisation will not work on its own.  So that it can be functional, so that it can be involved with the chief organisation we wanted them to join UDF, and then the two worked together.

MR NTEBEZA: You said something about IFP.  Was IFP against your organisation and this United Democratic Front?

WITNESS:   Since it's beginning, NYO, IFP never wanted anything to do with it.  The Security Branch at that time suspected that it was the wing of the African National Congress.

MR NTEBEZA: You were now in trouble during those days?

WITNESS:   Yes, we were in deep trouble.

MR NTEBEZA: Do you know any person who is here who was your representative?

WITNESS:   The person who represented us, especially when we were harassed, the person whom we used - the Mxenge lawyers.  We used people like Kwenza Mlaba.

MR NTEBEZA: Can you please go back to the date when your house was burned.  Do you remember the date?

WITNESS:   Rumours spread that NYO is not wanted around KwaZulu area, but Inkatha Brigade has to take over.  I don't want to take out names today, but there were leaders of Inkatha during those days.  This led to a situation that my house was burnt.  It was during the day.  Even up to this day nobody was charged with that.

MR NTEBEZA: Did you take that matter to the police, the KwaZulu Natal Police?

WITNESS:   I went to report this to the Madadeni Police Station.  I reported the matter to the station commander of the time, and he was Mr Mthethwa.

MR NTEBEZA: What happened to that report?

WITNESS:   Nothing came up.  The only thing he said was, "If you don't want your houses to be burnt leave all the things that you are doing, listen to what the Inkatha leaders are saying, forget about what you are doing because that's nonsense."

MR NTEBEZA: Can we go back to the date 21 June 1986?

WITNESS:   On the 21st of June 1986 I was here in Durban.  I was detained by the police.  It was about two in the morning.  They took me and they went over to Westville and they went back to Newcastle.  During this time nobody said anything to me.  We went to Newcastle Police Station and they told me that, "We are arresting you under a certain Act, which is the Violence Act."  They said, "No, you don't have any right to a lawyer, you can't say anything to anybody."  I said to them, "Can I please call my home to tell them that you arrested me?"  They said, "No, you don't have any right whatsoever to tell your family that you are arrested."  I said, "Take me home so that I can get "something, some clothes to change."  They said, "You don't have the right.  You only wear those clothes that you are wearing now."

MR NTEBEZA: Were they police from KwaZulu or were they the SAP?

WITNESS:   They were the members of the Security Branch.

MR NTEBEZA: Do you know their names?  I am not saying you should name them here, but do you know their names?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know their names.

MR NTEBEZA: What happened on your arrival in Newcastle?

WITNESS:   After telling me that I have been arrested they removed me from Newcastle and they took me to Waterval Prison in Utrecht.  They said, "Before we send a person into the cell he has to be cleaned, he has to be purely cleaned."  They made me undress, even the shoes.  I was naked.  I was put into a shower.  They said they were cleaning me.  I asked them, "Do I look dirty?"  They said, "No, we don't have any time to answer your questions.  You will do as ordered."  I was taken into the cell, a very small cell.  You couldn't move.

MR NTEBEZA: Can you tell us how big was this cell?

WITNESS:   It was a very small cell.  From one wall to the other you can walk two feet.  There's a toilet inside.  There's a sink where you can drink water.  Everything you have to do in this small room.  It was cement on the floor.  They undress you and you have to be naked in that very cold room.  The windows are so high you cannot see outside.  You cannot even switch the lights on.  Only a person from outside can switch the lights.  That is how this cell was designed.

MR NTEBEZA: How long did you stay in that cell?

WITNESS:   If I remember well I stayed in that cell with those conditions - it was about a month.

MR NTEBEZA: Were you alone in that cell or were there other people with you?

WITNESS:   I was alone.  I wasn't allowed to read any newspaper.  I couldn't listen to the radio.  I would stay there.  You had to speak to all the insects that were in the cell.  I was alone, nobody was there.

MR NTEBEZA: Did they give you any time to go and stretch yourself or just to exercise?

WITNESS:   No, they only allowed me to exercise after eight months, because my lawyers challenged this.  They really reacted towards the behaviour of the prison warders towards the detainees.  Well, we were told to exercise whether the Security Branch likes it or not.

MR NTEBEZA: Can you tell us a little about this horrific experience inside the cell?

WITNESS:   It was difficult to be in the cells because you wouldn't do anything that you wanted to do.  They would ask you one question.  The police came to ask me.  They ask you one question, and they would interrogate you for an hour.  If you tell them what you know they would say you are lying.  This continued until it was Sunday.  During this time they beat you up, they make you exercise.  They would say you have to sit on air.  Then you would fall because there is no chair, and after falling they would kick you, they would say, "Stand up.  We want you to give us answers."

MR NTEBEZA: Can you demonstrate this issue when they said you should sit on air?

WITNESS:   (Pause)  Your hands had to be up.  Your hands are up.  Now, if it happens you fall - if you fall you would be kicked.  You have to stand up and then continue.  Otherwise they would take a two cent coin and they would say you take your thumb and swing.  After some time you would go dizzy and you would fall.  Now, these Security Branch people would be standing there kicking you, telling you that you are lazy.  They would ask you, "Do you think you have offices here?  You have to know that we don't accept any person who is against the Government."

MR NTEBEZA: How were other experiences about electric shock and others?