Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-06

DR ALI: Thank you very much, Mrs Khesiwa.

COMMISSIONER: Are there any questions from other Commissioners?

DR RANDERA: Mrs Kheswa, I know this is difficult so I am not going to push too fast and too far.  I want you to take
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your time in answering these questions because you have been very brave to come here today to talk about your son and it seems to me that you want to know the truth as much as anybody else.  And we are talking about truth here.  I want you to tell us about your son first of all.  How old was he?  You say he was at school so how old was he when these events started on the 26th December 1990, which changed your life as you say?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: At the time he had just finished school.

COMMISSIONER: Order please.   Order.  If you go on like this we will ask some people to leave this room, even if we are just left with a few people, if you are not going to be disciplined this morning.  Please.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Kheswa I am going to ask you again how old was Victor in December 1990, even if he had just finished school?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: He was born in 1964.  But I am not able to actually say how old he was at that particular time.

DR RANDERA: Okay, thank you mam. Now we have heard today that Victor was seen driving around in cars, that he was a member of a gang, did he bring these cars home to you?  I mean you must have seen that he was driving around in these cars.  Did you ever ask him where he got these cars from?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: He never drove any cars but he had his own car.   One of the cars he used to drive was his father's car.

DR RANDERA: I just want you to tell us about your family.  You say you had other children.  How many children do you have?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: I have four children.  The first born is a girl.
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DR RANDERA: How long have you been living in the Vaal community?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: I came into Sebokeng, I was from Everton.  I got to Sebokeng in 1969.  I have stayed there from 1969.

DR RANDERA: So you say that you came from Everton, in a sense you have always been a Vaal resident then.

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is correct.  I was born here in the Vaal.

DR RANDERA: And Victor himself was born in the Vaal.

MRS EMMA KHESWA: Victor was born in Everton in 1964.

DR RANDERA: Can we just now go back to what you call the Street Committees and the Kangaroo Courts.  Can you tell us a little about this and who was responsible for the Street Committees, who actually formed the Kangaroo Courts.

MRS EMMA KHESWA: Where he was shot it was at Pron's place.  He is the one who was the head or their leader.

DR RANDERA: Sorry, whose place?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: At Pron's place.

DR RANDERA: Okay, so you knew about these Street Committees.  Were you part of Street Committees yourself?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: No, I was not part of the Street Committee.

DR RANDERA: Were there many people like yourself who were -when you said earlier you left your house because it was burnt, were there many people like you who left their houses because their homes were burnt and either left the area or went into Kwamadale and can you tell us something about that.

MRS EMMA KHESWA: Many people were scattered.  We never went to the same places.  All those people who were affected by the burnings, each and every one went to a place where he
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found suitable.

DR RANDERA: I want to go back now to the time that Victor was shot because I think that is very important in terms of what you are saying that he was in hospital when all these other events were taking place.   Where was he shot?  What part of his body?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: He was shot in the stomach.

DR RANDERA: And when you took him to Boksburg Hospital and they said that the wound was septic, did they operate on him?  No I am talking about you first - I know you ....

MRS EMMA KHESWA: At Sebokeng there is nothing that was done to him.  He only underwent the operation at Boksburg Hospital.

DR RANDERA: So he had an operation, they opened his stomach  up?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is correct.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  As a doctor I can understand that you know if someone has got a septic wound, especially in the stomach, that can be very dangerous and therefore the person must have been very sick in the days that started  from the time that he received the gunshot wound to the time he went into hospital.  So I can quite understand that he must have been quite sick, if he was as you say, shot in the stomach and the wound had become septic.  Can I just come back now to this, you said several times that you want the policemen to come forward so that they can say what they knew about Victor.  Did you not know anything about this?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: No, I never knew anything.  That is why I say I would like to know.

DR RANDERA: Even after your son's picture came into the newspapers and the story came into the pictures did you ask
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him about what had happened?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: Yes, when he died he told me that he also wanted to know as to what was happening.

DR RANDERA: When was the last time you saw Victor alive?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That was that very same evening when the police had come to fetch us.  That was the last time that I saw him alive.  Then on the following day they were busy asking me as to where they could get him.  I was arrested on a Thursday and Friday.  Then Saturday afternoon they came to tell me that he had died.

DR RANDERA: Do you remember the names of the policemen who came to fetch him and you?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: There were many.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Kheswa, I am just going to move along a little now.  You are still living in Kwamadale.  Is that right?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: That is correct.

DR RANDERA: Can you tell us how you feel now.  I know about - you have told us already about what happened about your son, but how you feel about the events that have taken place in the last few years in this community.  And your own position in the community now.  Do you feel safe living in this community?

MRS EMMA KHESWA: I feel very much troubled and in difficulty.  That is why I have come here before this Commission.  This troubles me so much because now my life has become very difficult and the most painful thing is that even at the location there is not even a single person who can say he or she is my enemy or who may allege that I have had an altercation.  I knew myself not to be having any enemy at the location.  Even my child he grew up not having
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any problems with the community.  Even my neighbours, even at school where he used to attend school I have never had any complaints from the teachers that he was a troublesome child.  Life started changing when I started hearing all these allegations and claims about my son.  As it is now I am suffering.  My life is not normal.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Kheswa, I don't have any more questions.  I am just going to say again what I said at the beginning, that I thank you for coming here today and I hope that we will be able to help you in terms of healing your wounds, but also the community in terms of healing their wounds.  Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Kheswa, we want to thank you very much for appearing ... (tape ends)