Special Hearings — Trojan Horse Hearings — 1997-06-02

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mrs Ryklief, I think the question that Dr Ramashala has just asked you is a very important one because you were involved in the trial and I'm sure that you have heard all the media around this case. It seems to me, and perhaps to many people, that the reasons offered in the trials and elsewhere was that these young people presented a very severe threat to the police. They were children who were endangering the lives of the police and therefore the police had to act in the way in which they had. It seems as though this is the kind of scenario that was presented to the nation and to the world during the hearings and so on. And of course we will try to hear all the versions in this events hearing. I feel that as I've said earlier on that the fact that we are having to relive these stories again brings lots and lots of emotions and lots and lots of feelings back to us. But we feel that you have made a very valuable contribution to young people. I feel very proud in one way that you felt the sense of responsibility to open up your door to protect young people, and to ensure that the lives of young people are protected. And it must mean something for you that you were able to make that contribution, but it also must mean something that even though you did that act, it was difficult for you to protect them from dying, particularly the ones who died in your home and that must be very hard for you to deal with. But we really do want to thank you for that very brave gesture of yours on trying to protect young people because ultimately that is what adults have to do. Adults have to protect the lives of young people and young people have to be able to look up to adults. It seems as though the custodians of care often do not  do that and we want to honour you today for being able to demonstrate what adults have to do for young people. Thank you very much.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Mrs Ryklief. Ladies and gentlemen, at this point we are going to break for tea and it will be a 15 minute only for tea. So we will be back here at 11:13am and we will resume the proceedings. Thank you. Could you stand while the witnesses leave please. Thank you.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS FOR TEA - ON RESUMPTION

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: As they are coming up, I would just like to announce also that Dr Wendy Orr will be leading you and before she does Dr Mapule Ramashala is going to  swear you in. Over to you Dr Ramashala.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Could you both stand please? Shafwaan Ryklief and Ismail Ryklief...

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Dr Ramashala is just getting the stadium for this morning. Oh good fine she's now got it.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Shafwaan Ryklief and Ismail Ryklief, do you want to swear or do you want to affirm?

MR RYKLIEF: Swear.

SHAFWAAN RYKLIEF: (sworn states)

ISMAIL RYKLIEF: (sworn states)

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you. Dr Wendy Orr.

WENDY ORR: Welcome Ismail and Shfwaan and thank you for coming here today, to relive what must have been, a horrifying and frightening experience for you. You were also there on the 15th October 1985 at the time when some young people were killed and when you yourselves were involved in the incident which has become known as the Trojan Horse incident. Who would like to speak first?

MR S RYKLIEF: I am Shafwaan Ryklief, I'm the son of Mrs Ryklief. I was there when this incident happened. It was about 4:50pm, I came back from a friend's house. When I arrived home there were burning tyres in the street, there were a lot of students standing around. I was still attending school at that time. I ran into the house accompanied by a friend, Shaun Magmoed. We were attending school together. We were standing there and Ismail Abrahams was with us. The children were active outside, they had posters and other things and like my mother just said, Ismail Abrahams wanted to go home, he insisted to go home. When my mother opened the door, I went with him and while we were going out we just took two or three steps and we had to run back again. When we came into the house, we stood by the window and we could see what was going on. The first time an orange railway truck came from Lansdowne Road and drove in the direction of Athlone. Children were throwing stones at this truck. The second time this truck came up this road, this was when we left the house and that was then that these police came out of these crates and started shooting. They aimed in the direction of our house. What I'm trying to say is they aimed at the house and their intention was to shoot out the house and like my mother had said they were trying to kill us. I myself was not injured. I fell on the ground, my legs were shaking and I felt that something was wet and when I looked at my hands I saw that it was blood. I was the eldest and people assisted me, I can't remember who they were. When I regained consciousness, I was in hospital, I can't even remember which hospital. I was so unconscious of what was happening.
 It was a very sad and traumatic experience. This is a day I will never forget. I saw how my friend, Shaun Magmoed died. I cried by myself for months afterwards. To see how a friend dies, a friend with whom you went to school and everything, that is a horrible experience, and very sad. The last thing he said was "Continue with the struggle, go on with the struggle" and like my mother had said all of us are people, whether you are black, brown or white. We are all people and when they said "That pig is dead" that was not right.
 I don't want to tell that to somebody else. How would people from the police or the security forces like to hear that coming from me? From 1985 onwards, it has changed my life, it has changed my whole attitude to life. It was a disruptive force. I became a different person, and the things that I participated in eg sports, I could not participate anymore because of the injury in my legs. I could not participate anymore because my legs could not take it. I went to the hospital, I had to go for an operation but I could not afford it. They could not bring back all those things they had taken away from us. This is all I want to say.
 When they appeared in court, I do not think it was just that they were acquitted because for what they did to us, we do not want to pay them back but those policemen should be punished. They should be punished. I cannot see that they were acquitted, because how would they like that to have been done to their families? I will never forget their faces, especially the one who kicked open the door. This is all I would like to say at this stage.

WENDY ORR: Do you know the name of the policeman?

MR S RYKLIEF: I can't remember his name, I was young, only sixteen years of age. When I see him I want to be able to recognise him.

WENDY ORR: Were you attending school?

MR S RYKLIEF: Yes, I was at school.

WENDY ORR: What are you doing now? are you working, studying.

MR S RYKLIEF: Yes, I'm working. I am a builder.

WENDY ORR: I just want to get a clear picture of what exactly happened. You were in the house and you saw that truck driving down the street and then turn round and come back. When did you go outside?

MR S RYKLIEF: When this truck drove in the direction of Klipfontein Road. Children were playing outside and throwing stones at this truck, and my friend, Ismail Abrahams insisted that he wanted to go home. When we left the house, it was about the second time the truck came back, and at that stage they just started shooting.

WENDY ORR: When you and friends went outside, you weren't carrying stones? You weren't throwing stones? You did not? Other children were doing that? Thank you I have no further questions.
 Ismail, I want to ask you, - you can speak English or Afrikaans - to tell your story.