Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The mistake here in the statement is Bra Mos called Batandwa then that he was at the garden. That is not true. In fact Dandala it was he who went into that house and tried to get Batandwa. He then came out alone and then the deceased followed later. And he came into the car. There is a mistake in this part of the statement.

MR DILIZO: So was it your omission that again that you did not mention in this statement that Dandala proceeded into the house to call Batandwa?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes in this statement I did not tell and that also he was at the garden it is not true.

CHAIRPERSON: I supposed the interpreter referred to the garden. In fact it should be an open area.

MR DILIZO: So according to you in your statement you had mentioned that Dandala had proceeded into the house to call Batandwa?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

MR DILIZO: That it does not appear in this statement is it surprising you?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It surprises me. It shows it was in my memory.

MR DILIZO: Mr Shabalala what could have caused this mistake with regard to the calling of Batandwa by Uncle Mos and this omission by you that Dandala proceeded into the house to call Batandwa?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It may have been my memory. I could not remember that.

MR DILIZO: Yes I am interested in finding out what other contributions which could have lead to your memory being affected in these two aspects?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: For now I don't think there is anything that can disturb me.

MR DILIZO: So in other words you find yourself having been betrayed by your own memory with regard to these two aspects. Am I correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: When I made this statement I was in prison. I was frustrated during the time of this statement. I tried to give all of the truth in this statement. Most of what is written in this statement is true. I tried my best.

MR DILIZO: Meaning therefore that you were struggling with the reconstruction of the events within your own mind at the time you made this statement?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I was not struggling a lot but I tried my best to recollect all of the happenings of that day.

MR DILIZO: Which therefore means that it was not a smooth running as you would have ordinarily expected to remember the events?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I remembered even when I was recollecting these things. You see these people came for one day and they left that same day. They simply took this statement and left. But my recollection was okay.

MR DILIZO: Yes Mr Shabalala my point of emphasis is to find the cause or the justification of this omission and this error you have made in these two aspects. That is the whole point. Do you understand me.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: You see it is nearly it you see. The only thing I forgot is the one that I did not put correctly but most of the statement is nearly correct.

MR DILIZO: Seeing that Mr Shabalala you don't advance any tangible reason for this omission and this innocent mistake is it not possible that the same could apply with regard to the other aspects of your evidence as well as with regard to the contents of your statement?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: What I can say all of this happened a long time back but my memory does serve me well in relation to certain areas. It can of course happen that I could forgot this or that but my memory does indeed.

MR DILIZO: Do you remember when you made this statement appearing from page 75 to 79 of the bundle?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I see it.

MR DILIZO: He made this statement Mr Chairman that is appearing on page 75 to 79 of the bundle.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabalala can you remember the date when you made this statement?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't remember the dates.

MR DILIZO: Can you remember perhaps the year?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes. 1997.

MR DILIZO: If Mr Shabalala you could make the unexplained mistakes in your statement in 1997 don't you expect that, that could be worsened with regard to the evidence you are giving before this Committee today with regard to your memory?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't think so.

MR DILIZO: Yes but I think that would be logical. If you could have made a mistake last year now almost a year from then it means the memory must have been affected further than it was affected at the time you made this statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Unless of course he has had the occasion subsequent to that to reflect on the events and think properly what happened.

MR DILIZO: Yes Mr Chairman but he hasn't stated so because my point is just to find the justification of his omission or the innocent mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabalala what you are being asked here is this; in your statement you didn't mention that Inspector Dandala went to the house to call the deceased. What counsel wants to find out from you is what explanation if any do you have for that omission? Did you understand what you are being asked?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I follow the question.

CHAIRPERSON: In particular the focus is not so much on your evidence in chief but it is on the statement which you made I think on the 24th of April 1997 I think it is. Do you understand that? The one that you made whilst you were in Piet Retief prison. Do you understand that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I do. What makes this statement not to have, that the fact that Mr Dandala went into the house my memory did show me that when we left that they told us about the car which we then tried to locate. In my mind I thought we had found Batandwa in the car in a certain house. That was a mistake with me because in my mind I thought when we left we followed the car according to this statement.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words your recollection of the events at the time when you made this statement was incorrect. Is that what you saying in regard to who went to the house to get the deceased out of the house?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is how I put it.

CHAIRPERSON: Which was incorrect?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It is not correct. It does not connect.

CHAIRPERSON: At a convenient time Mr Dilizo you will indicate so that we can take the tea adjournment.

MR DILIZO: Mr Chairman I think we can at this stage because I am coming to another aspect that is still within his statement.

COMMITTEE ADJOURNS: .
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: We apologise for returning somewhat late. The legal representatives and the Committee had to discuss certain housekeeping matters. Mr Shabalala you are still under oath.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: : (s.u.o.)

MR DILIZO: Thank you Mr Chairman. One aspect on this aspect of your innocent mistake Mr Shabalala. Do you agree with me that it is possible that one may be betrayed by his memories despite how honest and bona fide one may be?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: (... no English translation)

MR DILIZO: I am saying one may be honest that the events happened as he thinks and you are certain about that only to find that despite that he is certain and honest but he is mistaken about them in his explanation. Would you agree with my view on that or not Mr Shabalala?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I agree with that.

MR DILIZO: Mr Shabalala in your statement on page 79 of the bundle you have stated that you were congratulated if I get Afrikaans very well by Adriaan Vlok. What was it about you were congratulated?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It was not me alone who was being congratulated but all of us as a unit for work done.

MR DILIZO: Would Adriaan Vlok refer to the aspects for which he was praising you specially as a unit. For instance with regard to the successful arrest of the so-called terrorists or with success of some having been killed and so forth?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that was the case.

MR DILIZO: Both killing and the arrest?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The killing, the arrest and the finding of weapons so it was.