Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

MS MANTYSI: No, I don't know - I think Gangi will know.  Because he shot my brother and after having shot my brother, he brought police to my own house, showing them where I stay.

MS SEROKE: There is a group of people investigating evidence that is in your statement.  I am going to read a report that they have written in connection with your brother.  There was an inquest in actual fact.  I am going to read it first in English.  There will then [indistinct]
... states that the deceased died on 16th of June 1985 as a result of multiple entry wounds to the heart and lungs with internal bleeding when the deceased was shot.
The finding of the inquest was that no person was responsible for an act or omission amounting to an offence with regard to the death of the deceased.  
But after they'd said that no person was held responsible, the report goes on an says
A statement was taken from a constable Barnard who shot him.
Did you ever have any dealings with the constable?

MS MANTYSI: No.

MS SEROKE: It is said here that constable Barnard shot your husband.  And the inquest said that he did not make a mistake - by shooting him.  You said that all your children are still at school.  Only two are working.

MS MANTYSI: I have five children at school.  The one is in standard nine.  His name is Sipho.  Sivuhile is in standard five.  Nondomise in standard four.  Abongile and Anale are in standard three - those are my twins.

MS SEROKE: You are not working.

MS MANTYSI: No, I am not working.  My leg was injured -  I could not carry on working.

MS SEROKE: Do you get a pension?

MS MANTYSI: Yes, I get R540.00 for the children - it's too little.  What can I do with R540.00.

MS SEROKE: What you are telling us is very painful.  I am going to read a conclusion that was made by the investigators.  I am going to read this in English - it is going to be interpreted for you.
This is another case of failure by the Justice Department or of the South African police of informing the family of the deceased as to the judicial process.
They were uninformed as to their rights and had no access to legal aid or representation.
After there had been an inquest - this means that the authorities did not even have the respect to tell you properly, with dignity - what happened to your husband.  
How do you survive at home, considering that you have so many children and you are all living on R540.00.

MS MANTYSI: I struggle a lot - this money is just for the food.  I cannot buy clothes for my children.  If  I had been working, maybe things would be better.

MS SEROKE: What is your interests now.  What do want the Truth and Reconciliation Committee to do - Commission.

MS MANTYSI: I want to know who shot my husband - because I do not know who it is.  My children want to continue with their education, even the two that are no longer at school.  It is because there is no money.  They want to continue with their schooling.

MS SEROKE: Today for the first time you know who shot my husband.  Now that you know, what do you think you want to do about that.

MS MANTYSI: I don't know -  I really don't know what I am going to do and how.  It's difficult to forgive.  Because my husband was my everything.  My children today are suffering.  He was our breadwinner - he was my everything.  This Barnard is working for his children - my children have no supporter.

MS SEROKE: Can you not forgive, even though you know who it is?

MS MANTYSI: I don't know.  I'll ask the Lord to help me.

MS SEROKE: Thank you - we will go back to the Chairperson now.

ADV POTGIETER: Ms Mantysi, this seems to have been a particularly dark day in De Aar, the 16th of June.  On the day that your husband was shot and killed.  According to the information at our disposal, apart from your husband, there were three other persons who were also shot and it seems injured as well as two young boys - one sixteen years of age who was shot by the police when they were leaving their grandmother's house.  So it seems to have been quite a dark day, but you have said that your brother was also shot on that day.

MS MANTYSI: Yes, my brother was shot - his name Andile Hans.

ADV POTGIETER: And was he also shot by the police or who shot him?

MS MANTYSI: Yes, he was shot by Gangi, a policeman.

ADV POTGIETER: And was there a court case in connection with the shooting of your brother?

MS MANTYSI: I can't remember - I don't remember any court case.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] at home with your parents or with yourselves or what.

MS MANTYSI: He was staying with my parents -  I stay in my own house.

ADV POTGIETER: And if - if  there were in fact court proceedings in connection with his shooting, you would have known about that.

MS MANTYSI: Yes, I would know - that's for sure - I would know.

ADV POTGIETER: It seems that if it's similar to the shooting of your husband where you were not given any notice or any information about a court case.  Similar in the case of your brother Andile, you were not given any notice or any information about a court case about Andile shooting as well.

MS MANTYSI: No, we were not given any information.  We once got a letter - it was on a Friday.  They called me - I then went, because people were being called there.  They never said anything, I just waited and waited and waited.  Other people went in, but I didn't go in. I had this letter in my hand.  I asked one policeman, I am not sure whether he was a policeman or not, but he was working there.  I showed him the letter, but I told him that nobody has dealt with me.  He said he does not know what's going on, but the Magistrate is still there.
I showed the Magistrate the letter telling him that I had been called, but no-one has dealt with me - everybody is leaving.  That Magistrate said to me - he said I must go and ask my lawyer.  He did not say anymore -  I left and went home.

ADV POTGIETER: So did that letter tell you to come to court on a specific day.

MS MANTYSI: That letter had asked my to go to the Magistrate.

ADV POTGIETER: And did it tell you when you must on what day you must go to the Magistrate.

MS MANTYSI: There was a date - it was on a Friday.

ADV POTGIETER: You went to the Magistrate's office on that day.  Did you go in the morning.

MS MANTYSI: It was in the morning - they normally start at nine.  I went even earlier than that.  I waited, thinking they were going to call me, but they never did.  I just waited and waited - they never called me - they did not call me at all.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] until the afternoon.   And then - sorry you go ahead.

MS MANTYSI: I don't remember well, but it was until after supper.  I can't even remember the date well, but it was on a Friday.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] you then had to - when you realised that nobody is calling you - you then had to take steps to try and find out what was going on.

MS MANTYSI: I went inside there was a man in normal clothes.  He was standing by the counter.  I told him - showed him the letter - told him that I had not been called in.  What should I do I asked.  I told him that I had come, they mustn't say I had not come.
I asked him to take him me to the Magistrate and we went to the Magistrate.   I told the Magistrate that I am here as I have been called, but you have not dealt with me at all.  Then he said I must just ask my lawyer - that's all he said.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] all about your husband's incident.

MS MANTYSI: He said nothing - he just said I must ask everything from my lawyer.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] at that stage - you were there on you own.

MS MANTYSI: I had a lawyer - his name is Sewisa.  He was with the other people.  I thought that the Sewisa was going to come.  Because I came early - I thought that they'd come later.  I stayed until late, until the Magistrate said I must ask my own lawyer.