Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-05-16

MS THABETHA: We are ready, Mr Chair.

JUDGE WILSON: We are now proceeding with the applications of William Opanjana Thoabala, application No 3844/96, Setheko Benjamin Cholota, application No 554/96 and Simon Phula Moalosi, application No 3998/96. The Committee is constituted as it has been throughout these hearings, Wilson, Ngoepe, De Jager. We will now proceed.

MS THABETHA: Thank you, Mr Chair. Mr Chair ...

JUDGE WILSON: I'm sorry, no, I think we should also - we haven't done it up to now, but I think it might assist those preparing the record if you two will both put yourself on record.

UNKNOWN: I am Mongesi Tshongweni, representing application number 1, Benjamin Deteko Cholota, applicant number 2, Simon Phule Moalosi and applicant number 3, William Opanjana Thoabala. Thank you, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: Your numbering seems to be different from the numbering on what was put before us. Has it changed, the numbering? We have got on the notice last time, 1(a), William Opanjana Thoabala, (b) Cholata and (c) Moalosi.

MS THABETHA: The pages are wrong, Mr Chair.

JUDGE WILSON: Has that been written in the wrong order?

MS THABETHA: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: You have put it in the wrong order?

MS THABETHA: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: Will you give us the proper numbers again; Thoabala is number who?

MS THABETHA: Benjamin Cholota is number 1. Detego Benjamin Cholota is number 1.

JUDGE WILSON: Yes?

MS THABETHA: William Opanjana Thoabala is number 2.

ADV DE JAGER: But that is not even the sequence of the papers in our bundle.

JUDGE WILSON: The first one, these papers have been prepared and put before us. They were at the last hearing, the first application file is that of Thoabala. Now he is the second applicant.

MS THABETHA: Mr Chair, at that time when I prepared those papers I didn't know the sequence. Adv Tshongweni was going to take them leading evidence.

JUDGE WILSON: But that has nothing to do with the setting down of things. They were set down in a certain order, the documents were prepared in that order. Counsel is quite at liberty to lead his clients in a different order. He is not bound by that.

MS THABETHA: We stick to what is in your bundle then.

JUDGE WILSON: Right, carry on.

MS THABETHA: Mr Chair, at this present moment I will call on Adv Tshongweni to proceed with leading evidence.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman, members of the Committee. With your permission, Mr Chairman, I beg to call Benjamin Deteko Cholota to give evidence.

MS THABETHA: For the convenience of members of the Committee, it is page 10 of the application.

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: (Duly sworn, states).

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman. Before I continue, Mr Chairman, I would like to bring for purposes of record, I would like to bring to the attention of the Committee, that according to the applicant's application form, page 2 thereof, paragraph 9(a)(I), where it states that the applicant should stipulate the crime that he has been convicted of. The applicant mentioned three offences. One is murder, two terrorism, three arson. The applicant is applying in respect of attempted murder, not murder, terrorism and the third offence that has been deleted in the application form. This was a result of a mistake made when he was filling in the forms. Apparently one of the prisoners assisted him in filling in the forms, and they didn't understand what offences they should include.

ADV DE JAGER: So he is applying for attempted murder on Mr ...?

UNKNOWN: On Mr Plaatjies, whom I am going to refer to as the deceased.

ADV DE JAGER: And the date and the venue?

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Commissioner, it is reflected as the 1st of May 1992.

ADV DE JAGER: At Parys?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

JUDGE WILSON: Tamaholi, Parys?

UNKNOWN: That is correct, it is a township in Parys, Tamaholi.

JUDGE WILSON: Near the Black Joint Tavern.

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: It would perhaps save a few minutes. Do you propose to make a similar application in respect of Thoabala?

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: Very well, I think we can deal with them both at the same time. It appears, I don't want to give evidence on this, but it looks as if the two forms were filled in by the same person.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: The same mistake, so we will change both of them to be an application for amnesty in respect of the attempted murder of Mr Plaatjies on the 1st of May.

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: Very well, carry on.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I will now proceed leading evidence in respect of applicant No 1, that is Cholota, Benjamin Dethego. Please state your full name and surname, please.

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: Benjamin, Dethego Cholota.

UNKNOWN: How old are you?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: 35, Sir.

UNKNOWN: Where were you born?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: Tamahole Township, Sir.

UNKNOWN: How long have you lived there?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: From birth, Sir, up to this time.

UNKNOWN: Which schools did you attend?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: I attended school at Silogeli Primary School. Then from there I went to Phealang Secondary School.

UNKNOWN: Were you at that time a member of any political organisation?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: I was a member of the ANC, Sir.

UNKNOWN: When did you join the ANC?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: I would say before I joined the ANC, I was a member of UDF in 1983. Then I joined the ANC in 1985. I was recruited by Bernard Molengwani. He is now deceased.

UNKNOWN: You are presently serving a seven-year sentence for the attempted murder of John Plaatjies, the deceased. Is that correct?

BENJAMIN CHOLOTA: That's true, Sir.

UNKNOWN: In your own words, could you tell the Committee how it came that you were involved in the attempted killing of the deceased?