Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-21

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] must be in possession of one of these devices.  Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairperson I would like to start by saying the following that the applicants are applying for possession of limpet mines and also further to report the presence of the said weapon and my first applicant will Mr Seyisi, Mr Chairperson, and I will be pleased if he can sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Seyisi, do you wish to take the oath or do you wish to make an affirmation?

MFUNDI SEYISI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairperson, the affidavit which we are going to use for the purposes of this matter starts from page 12 to page 16 Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Seyisi, do you confirm that the affidavit which is before the Committee was made by yourself and you stand by it's contents?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes I do affirm.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Seyisi, can you tell the Committee who was Vuyani Namba and how did you come to know about him?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Vuyani Namba was brought by Comrade Ndoda Mgengo.  He had actually come to help the Paso organisation as well as a member of the Paso Commissar, then we were told to stay with him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, I think the application should be APLA Commissar, not Paso Commissar.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.

MR LAX: Can you just repeat the name of the person who introduced him to you or brought him to you as you said?
Is it the third applicant, I'm sorry, I didn't hear it.

CHAIRPERSON: I think just confirm, the person was introduced him was you say Ndoda Mgengo, the third applicant in this matter.

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes, it's Ndoda Mgengo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Seyisi can you then for the Committee, the last point, how did it happen that on the 30th November 1993 a limpet mine exploded in the municipality bus?

MFUNDI SEYISI: On the 30th November we woke up in the morning and left, that is myself and Robert, that is the name he used at that time, he wanted to show me Umbilo Police Station and that is where the limpet mine exploded in the bus.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you said to the Committee that he showed you the limpet mine, if I'm correct.  Did you know how it operates yourself?  How to operate a limpet mine?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No, I've go absolutely no knowledge as to how it functions or works.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you know how did it explode in the bus before you reached Umbilo Police Station?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I have no knowledge thereof.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all, Mr Chairperson, ...[indistinct]
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR NEL: Thank you Mr Chairperson, yes indeed.
	Mr Seyisi, according to your application for amnesty contained on page 11 of the bundle and I refer to paragraph 11(b), there must be some typing error or something left out because I'll read your answer to the question asked in that paragraph where you state:
"We acted on our"
I can only assume it must have been "our own" you can confirm that later if you want to.
"Furthermore, no order was given.  Vuyani Mamba"
Also must have been a typing error
"came with limpet mine, we decided to use it"
Is that a true reflection of the position?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Could you please repeat your question, I don't think I understood it.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Seyisi, do you have a copy of your application form in front of you?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes I've just received a copy.

CHAIRPERSON: If you take a look at question 11(b).

MR LAX: Does yours - is your pages as well?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes page 11, question 11(b).

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes I can see.

CHAIRPERSON: Now first of all, before we get to Mr Nel's question, as it stands there, the way it's been typed it doesn't really make much sense, it seems like a word has been left out, it says "We acted on our no order was given"
Now what Mr Nel suggests is that it's probably meant to read:
"We acted on our own, no order was given.  Vuyani Mamba came" or it says come "come with limpet mine, we decided to use it."
Do you see that?  What was that answer meant to be, was it "we acted on our own" or what were you trying to convey in that answer?

MFUNDI SEYISI: The explanation that I gave was that I knew Vuyani Namba as an APLA cadre and he gave us the limpet mine in the morning.  As to whether he came with the limpet mine, we did not know that at first but as an APLA Commissar we knew that he would not go out to act on his own without any particular or specific instructions.

MR NEL: Is this sentence then incorrect:  "We acted on our" did you have an instruction from the person, Mr Vuyani Namba, to assist him?

MFUNDI SEYISI: That is correct.

MR NEL: Do you know where he got his instructions from?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I've got no idea.

MR NEL: You did say in your evidence in chief that "we all woke up together", I take it that you left from wherever you had woken up that morning, together?

MFUNDI SEYISI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: There Mr Seyisi, when you say "we woke up and we left" who was it precisely, who was it that left together?  Yourself, Vuyani or Robert as he was referred to then, was it anybody else?

MFUNDI SEYISI: It was myself Vuyani as well as Xolani.

CHAIRPERSON: Xolani, is that the first applicant in this matter?

MFUNDI SEYISI: That is correct.

MR NEL: Where exactly did you leave from?

MFUNDI SEYISI: We were from Red Hill, that is where we stayed.

MR NEL: And do I understand it correctly that the three of you got onto a bus somewhere close to The Workshop?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Just for record, you're referring to The Workshop, the shopping complex known as The Workshop?

MR NEL: That is correct, Mr Chairman, somewhere in the centre of town.

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes that is correct.

MR NEL: And do I understand you correctly that you were heading to or heading for the Umbilo Police Station?

MFUNDI SEYISI: That is correct.

MR NEL: Now you also made a statement which is on page 65 of the bundle, if I may refer you to that, Mr Seyisi.  Specifically if you look at firstly the second paragraph, according to the second paragraph, you went to The Workshop to buy a tracksuit?  Is that correct?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No that is not correct.  At The Workshop we went to board the bus, not to buy a tracksuit.

MR NEL: Well it says according to my papers here that, paragraph 2, fourth line up
"I was looking to buy a tracksuit from one of the shops there.  At about 10 o'clock I went to the bus rank in Pine Street opposite The Workshop"
Is that incorrect?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No, that is not true, that must have been a mistake.

MR NEL: The next paragraph, paragraph 3, you say
"I got onto the bus and went to sit on the second seat from the back on the right hand side.  While I was sitting I saw a fellow student Xolani Cuba"
who is the first applicant in this matter
"getting on the bus.  Xolani also stays at 85 West View Road during school time.  I cannot say whether he was with someone or alone.  Xolani walked past me down the passage."
Now do I understand this correctly that you were not with these people or is this a mistake?

MFUNDI SEYISI: The truth is that we got into the bus, the three of us.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say we got on the - you mean to say the three of you together got on the bus at the same time?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes that is correct.

MR NEL: Is this statement then incorrect or is there some misunderstanding by Mr Boshof who took it down from you?

MFUNDI SEYISI: At the time that we made the statement I think these are the allegations that we made purposely because we didn't want to disclose the truth.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think just for the record, Mr Nel, that statement was taken according to the date contained on it, on the 3rd December 1993 in Durban by a Captain Boshof of the police.