Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-27

MR BOTHA: ...but he applied for Legal Aid in this matter, and we expect the outcome of the application within this week.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes.   At this stage you did not appear on behalf of the South African Police Services?

MR BOTHA: No, that is also in the process, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   Would you please, between now and the date when we resume, get confirmation whether or not you would be appearing for Mr Shaka and the South African Police Services?

MR BOTHA: I intend to take it up with them, Mr Chairperson, and then I'll communicate with the evidence leader or whoever may be the responsible person.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And if you do not have those instructions, would you also communicate with the evidence leader so that arrangements can be made to ensure that all those who are implicated in these proceedings have legal representation?

MR BOTHA: I will do so, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: The reason why I do this is that when we resume next, I do not expect any further postponement on the basis that people are not ready for the hearing.

MR BOTHA: I understand, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   And Mr Mapoma, may I please ask you to never, to make sure that whoever is implicated here is legally represented when we resume next and make sure that if there are new legal representation who are coming onto the proceedings, they get all the necessary documentation timeously, so that we are not delayed when we resume next?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, chairperson, I'll do that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   Is there anything that counsel wishes me to place on record?

MR STRYDOM: No, chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   Very well... (intervention).

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, there's maybe just one aspect.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR STRYDOM: I don't know if the proceedings is going to be typed, but if so, we would request a copy of the record so we can have it also timeously, if it's, when it becomes available, so that we can study it before the next hearing.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma, do you know what the - how soon does the record become available?

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I do not know, but once the record becomes available, we will notify the legal representatives accordingly, but what I may point out at this stage, chairperson, is that the commission does not make available to the legal representatives the record.   All that we do, we notify those parties concerned and tell them the address where the transcribers are, so that they can access the record themselves.    That is the exercise of the commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.   Well, yes, may I ask you though to prevail on those who are responsible for transcribing the record to endeavour to make sure that it is done timeously, so that other legal representatives may then be informed so that they can attempt to secure one if they need one?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, chairperson, I'll do that.

CHAIRPERSON: The other matter which my colleague, Mr Sibanyoni raises, which is equally important, is the question of argument.   We've sat through a great deal of evidence, it is all the applicants but Mr Nosenga and Mr Mkhize have given evidence, all that remains thereafter would be the implicated persons, if they desire to give evidence, I would expect that either counsel argues the matter the moment we finish the evidence, or perhaps we agree on some timeframe.    I recognise that because of the somewhat long hours that we do sometimes work, counsel may not be able to prepare - be ready to argue the matter at the conclusion of the evidence, but I'm just warning counsel that perhaps they should start preparing written argument the moment they leave this hall, so that if we require argument to be delivered to us within ten days after the hearing, that can be done.

MR MAPOMA: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   It seems to us that we will have to get written argument.    Yes, very well.   Have I just discharged Mr Khubeka?   Mr Khubeka, I've just been - I beg your pardon - Just pull that chair and just put it closer to the table.   Mr (Indistinct), if you don't mind, if you don't mind, would you just make sure that the mike is closer to Mr Khubeka.   That's okay, yes, that's okay, yes.   Can you hear the interpretation?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I can hear, but the lady's voice is a bit softer.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may now return to your seat.   Yes, very well.

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, there's also the question of the date.

CHAIRPERSON: That is the last thing I want to do, yes.   I'm now looking at the diary.   Yes, okay.   These proceedings will be adjourned to the 6th of April.   Did we say we can work on Monday?   No, on Monday the 5th.

MR STRYDOM: I see it's a holiday, Monday the 5th is family day.

MS PRETORIUS: It might be difficult to get everybody out of prison on a holiday, Mr Chairperson, I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Pretorius, I think you have a valid defence.   It's not about your availability, it's about the prisoners.   Okay, very well, these proceedings will then be postponed to April, the 6th of April, and we will sit until Friday, the 16th of April, and hopefully we will be finished by then.   There is the possibility of us sitting on Saturday, the 10th, if we are not able to finish.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, sorry to interrupt, that week, from the 12th to the 16th, I'm involved in a part-heard matter that's also been postponed, it's also a matter that's in a criminal court, it's been going on for a long time, and there are other senior counsel involved, lots of people, and it's - lots of people, I just can't be here that week.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, those are the days to which this matter will be postponed and will run on those days.   If there are any problems, we will deal with them there.   Okay.   There may be problems for many of us, but we'll try by all means to make sure that at least we finish during the first week.
	And then it only remains to thank each and every one of the persons who have made it possible for us to occupy this venue and those who have rendered their assistance from time to time and the members of the audience, who have persevered throughout those proceedings.   Thank you.
	Yes, very well, we'll rise then until the 6th of April.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS - MATTER POSTPONED TO 6 APRIL 1999