Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

MR STRYDOM: Now the person you are referring to now, did you see him on the night of the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: No, I didn't see him, however he is a person I happen to know as Matanzima.  I know him or knew him because when he arrived at the hostel he was someone who was sent to do some reconnaissance as to how bombs could be planted inside the hostel.  I've heard some rumours after he was arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was he supposed to plant these bombs?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The ANC people had a problem with entering and attacking kwaMadala Hostel therefore they had to use him as a person who was going infiltrate Inkatha and join as a member while he was to be used to plant the bombs.

MR STRYDOM: Where did you hear that?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I heard it from, we were in a meeting which occurred at kwaMadala Hostel.

MR STRYDOM: This meeting you're referring to, did it take place before or after the attack on Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Even if I don't remember well, it was before the attack.

MR STRYDOM: During that time, did you know a person by the name Victor Kezuas, he's also got a nickname: "Katsisi"?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, I was ...[indistinct] close to him.

MR STRYDOM: That night of the attack on Boipatong, was he present?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: As a person who was always arrested now and then, I would say he was in jail at that time.

MR STRYDOM: On the night of the attack, did you see any vehicle - if I can rephrase, so-called Hippo vehicle picking up people and taking them into Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That never happened.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know a person by the name of Themba Mabote?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, very well.

MR STRYDOM: They night of the attack did you see him?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, he was present.

MR STRYDOM: Did he partake in the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know how he got to Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: He was in the group, one of the group.

MR STRYDOM: Did he have a firearm in his possession at that stage?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It looks like he had a 9mm gun.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know a person by the name of Celo Hunter Mzozo?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't know whether you are referring to Hunter Celo Ndlovu or was someone else?

MR STRYDOM: No, I said that, maybe not in that sequence but that's the person I'm referring to.  Do you know him?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, I know him.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see him on the night of the 17th of June partaking in the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I didn't see him.

MR STRYDOM: Now I want to return to what happened after the attack.  Did you see Mr Themba Xhosa at the hostel after the attack?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: He came a few days after the attack.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the question not directed at whether Themba Xhosa was present at the hostel on the night of the attack?  Was that your question?

MR STRYDOM: No, Chairperson, I made reference to what happened after the attack.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR STRYDOM: Ja.
END OF TAPE - POSSIBLE WORD LOSS

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Even if I won't know the exact reason for visiting the place, what I can remember is that we had a problem because we couldn't, we were not able to go to the shops because the whole kwaMadala Hostel was surrounded by police, therefore life wasn't good in the hostel.  He was the one who could go and talk to the police when we want to talk to them or when they want to talk to us.

CHAIRPERSON: Were the police preventing the residents of kwaMadala Hostel from going to the shops?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I don't understand when you say: "protecting them" or "stopping them from going to the shops"?

CHAIRPERSON: It means: "preventing them".

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: From Tuesday, Thursday the 18th of June, anyone who was a resident at kwaMadala Hostel wasn't allowed to go out of the hostel until the following Monday.

CHAIRPERSON: And who was preventing the people from going out?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The kids?

MR LAX: Sorry, did you say: "the kids"?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Will you please repeat the question?

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] the 18th of June, no residents of kwaMadala Hostel were allowed out of the hostel.  What I want to know is, who was preventing the residents from leaving the hostel?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The police.

MR STRYDOM: Thinking back at this stage, what are your feelings about the attack that took place on the 17th of June 1992?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: All I can say is that the time when there was an attack at Boipatong, I wouldn't say that time I was happy about it because I convinced myself that the time has come for me to pay revenge but after a few days, I would say two days, after hearing that children and women were killed I felt very sorry and disappointed.

MR STRYDOM: Do you still have those feelings?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: No, Mr Strydom, I no longer feel the same.  All I can say is that after the incident I was committed to peace because I would say that there are so many things that I have done from that time up to today which we efforts to reconcile the ANC and the IFP, especially in the hostels.
	I would say I would even have witnesses who are not members of my organisation and who might come direct from the ANC, who can give evidence on these efforts of trying to reconcile people towards a peaceful situation because after coming out from prison I was elected as a leader within the IFP.  I used that position to bring about peace.
	To add, I don't think there is anyone who knew that IFP members who entered the Sebokeng Hostel and that they could enter Kwamasiza Hostel and that people who were resident at Sebokeng can enter kwaMadala Hostel, but because of my commitment together with my brothers working together, that had happened.

MR STRYDOM: Is there anything else you want to add to your application at this stage?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would like to ask permission to say this, especially to the relatives, the family victims.  I would say we, the African people, we were unlucky because when we received politics we were taught that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an enemy and must be killed.
	I would say that I would like to ask for forgiveness for all that I've done.  I didn't do these things intentionally.  I would say what was difficult at the time was that there was lawlessness in the country, the government in charge was not in the position to protect the people of this country and therefore each and every person took the law into his or her own hands. 	I'm saying this because many IFP followers were killed at Vaal during the day, many IFP families were burnt during daylight.  We reported that daily and during the night to the police, however even up to today not even a single person was charged for such crimes.  Thank you.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, that is my evidence in chief.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the lunch adjournment now and we will return at a quarter past two.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khanyile, may I remember you are still under oath to speak the truth.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, have you concluded your examination in chief?

MR STRYDOM: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Berger, have you decided who is going to start?

MR BERGER: I'm going to start Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that Miss Cambanis would want to be excused at 3 o'clock.

MS CAMBANIS: Yes, Chair, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you want to put questions now before you leave?

MS CAMBANIS: No, thank you Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: Thank you Chairperson.