Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1976-07-19

MR VAN WYK: Yes.  We thereafter, well perhaps I should just mention something which I missed.  We also stole a vehicle for our organisation.  We stole it in August, August/September I think in Pretoria and after the Louis Trichardt incident we went to Oudtshoorn for two weeks and we conducted this planned operation which was aimed at breaking into the magazine at Oudtshoorn and to steal a large number of weapons and special forces equipment.
	Du Plessis and White went away doing reconnaissance and I stayed behind in Mossel Bay whilst they were doing reconnaissance there.  After two weeks of reconnaissance we performed this operation, we entered the premises, the army base and we broke into the magazine only to find that our information had been incorrect. The magazine had been transferred to another place, so what we had in fact broken into was a storage place for clothes.  So we left Oudtshoorn without achieving anything.  
	After that we decided to enter the army base at Potchefstroom.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now could we just pause here.  The incident in Oudtshoorn relates to charge 7, housebreaking with intent to steal and attempted theft.

MR VAN WYK: Yes that is correct.  Now after that we went to the army base in Potchefstroom, 10 Artillery, and we went to the ammunition depot.  We broke into the depot and stole a large number of arms, ammunition and explosives.

MR GIMSBEEK: I would like to refer you to charge 10, is that the charge of breaking into the premises and attempted theft?

MR VAN WYK: Yes.  Thereafter two R4 rifles were obtained at an army base at Pyramid in Northern Pretoria that was robbed, taken away from two guards and during the robbery shots were exchanged and members of the security forces fired at us and White answered their fire with an AK47.  Nobody was killed or injured during this incident.

MR GIMSBEEK: Right.  That refers to charges 9 and 10 on the indictment?

MR VAN WYK: That is correct. After this act we were arrested in November.

MR GIMSBEEK: There are other charges against you, there were other charges against you but those arose from the possession of arms and ammunition?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, that is correct.

MR GIMSBEEK: So there aren't other offences which we haven't mentioned here, other murders or breaking and entering cases?

MR VAN WYK: No.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now what you have mentioned here is the sum total of all the offences committed by yourself?

MR VAN WYK: Yes that is correct.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you elaborate on the two breaking in cases, the one at Oudtshoorn and the one in Potchefstroom, was any violence committed there, acts of violence?

MR VAN WYK: No there was no violence.  Once again we were armed in case we should encounter any resistance from the security forces.  At Oudtshoorn we entered the premises by means of the fence, we cut the fence and thereafter broke open the padlock, magazine padlock, no-one was injured during the incident and at Potchefstroom no-one was injured there either.

MR GIMSBEEK: Right.  And what form did the breaking-in take in Potchefstroom?

MR VAN WYK: We once again cut the fence around the depot.  I stood guard outside whilst du Plessis and White entered the fence.  They gained access to the depot, they broke open the padlocks and obtained the ammunition.  Grobler wasn't present, he was in the vehicle, he was waiting for us and after this operation we went back to the vehicle, Grobler picked us up and we then left.
	Now perhaps just to return to the two robberies committed at Pyramid, the army base there, it was decided by du Plessis that the robbery would take place using teargas to try and prevent any excessive violence.

MR GIMSBEEK: The two robberies committed at Walmansthal these were actually only part of one action, it did not take place on two separate occasions?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, it was one action during which two weapons were robbed.

MR GIMSBEEK: Right.  Mr van Wyk there are many people who might say that the National Socialist Partisan Party that it consisted of a group of "psychos" if one could put it like that, how did you view this organisation, did you see it as a liberation organisation or did you perhaps have any other views?

MR VAN WYK: Well at that stage there was no rightwing organisation, according to us, which had the ability to unify the rightwing movement in South Africa and thereby to establish a Volkstaat by military or any other means.  We saw our only option as being a military one, and for that reason I was of the opinion that our organisation had dynamic plans of action.  And I also thought that we were totally unknown to the security forces at that stage and we could act in a clandestine manner.  Our aims at that stage were completely pure, according to me, and we thought we were quite justified in striving for what we were aiming for.
	As regards the reference to "psychos, a group of psychos" our political objectives at the time, I would not be sitting here today if it wasn't for the political motive which we all shared that was the impetus behind our actions, but I cannot justify it today.  One cannot find political solutions through the barrel of a gun.  I realise that now and I appeal to everybody that this should never happen again, that there should be talks and negotiations to try and resolve problems, but at that stage we thought the only answer was a military one.  We feared the imminent takeover by the ANC and a resultant bloodbath.  That of course never took place.  Things continued as before, quite normally.

MR GIMSBEEK: Was there any financial gain for yourself in these actions and your membership of the organisation or not?

MR VAN WYK: No there was no personal gain.  I, on the contrary, suffered financially as a result of the offences committed and my membership of the organisation etc.

MR GIMSBEEK: Well you were apprehended in November of 1991 after White and Grobler, after their vehicle was found containing certain exhibits which linked you with certain offences, could you elaborate on that?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, our passports were found in the car.  The plan was to go overseas at some stage to liaise with the rightwing organisations there.  We had already established some contact.  We wanted to raise funds and I was not in a position to plan strategy and tactics but du Plessis was aware of the fact that we might be able to obtain funds from overseas and that we could perhaps contact mercenaries abroad and organise for them to come to South Africa.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now White and Grobler died at Noeniput, where were they going at that stage?

MR VAN WYK: The whole incident is still a bit of a mystery at the moment, but our understanding was that if we had any serious problems we would flee to a farm.  I can't remember the exact location of this farm, there was a contact number which we had to use if we ever found ourselves there.  I think they were on their way to the border to cross into Namibia, and the reason why they fled is still unclear to me.
	I think at that stage there was a file on us and the organisation and perhaps they realised at that stage that the security police were on to them.  I am not quite sure.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now White and Grobler died at Noeniput and you are not familiar with the events there?

MR VAN WYK: No, I have no knowledge of what happened there and I know there is no absolute clarity as to what exactly happened.  It's all conjecture as far as I am concerned, I can't elaborate on that.  I know there were allegations that they committed suicide, as well as allegations that they were murdered, but I can express no opinion on that.

MR GIMSBEEK: Right.  Shortly afterwards you were arrested?

MR VAN WYK: Yes that's correct, on the 8th of November 1991.

MR GIMSBEEK: And you were then detained for how long?

MR VAN WYK: For ten months I was detained and awaiting trial.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now at that stage you were granted bail?