Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-01

MR SHANE: Right, now before Beki, before Beki Khanyile was killed, can you tell this Commission what actually happened to your family's home at the hands of members of the Inkatha Freedom Party?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: IFP members wanted us to join IFP, and they wanted us to sign the IFP forms, and we were running away from them.  They were forcing us to do all those things and they wanted to harass the parents.

MR SHANE: Yes, and what happened to your family' house?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: My family ran away because they could see that a friend of mine was killed, was involved in Beki's case, and his parents were killed.  They managed to escape.

MR SHANE: Yes, and did the IFP not move into your family's home?  Members of the IFP.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, they went inside.  They couldn't find anyone because the people had ran away at the time.  That's what, that's the information that I got, home.

MR SHANE: And is it correct that they started to live in your family's home?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: My family house was not the only house that was occupied.  They occupied the whole area.

MR SHANE: And that included, obviously included your family's house?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Now, it was during 1993 when Beki Khanyile was killed, in fact in December.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I cannot remember when.  I cannot remember the date.

MR SHANE: Will you tell the Commission what happened on that day.  You were patrolling in the street ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before we carry on.  Mr Steenkamp, have we got a date?

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman we don't have a specific date for this incident at all, if that is what you're asking me, sir.  Sir, if I'm, sorry to be so rude Mr Chairman.  If I'm, if my facts are correct, as far as we could establish there were no police dockets opened for this specific incident.  I am in the process of confirming that again, because we reinvestigated this matter, this specific matter again, but as far as we could establish there was no police docket opened.  I do know that in the one matter, the Khanyile matter, the victims were informed however.  Thank you sir.

MR SHANE: Will you please tell the learned Commissioner and learned members what happened when you were patrolling in the street in Tokoza, in your own words.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Do you want to know what was happening?

MR SHANE: I want to know what happened vis a vis the murder of Beki Khanyile.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: We were patrolling the streets at Buthelezi Street.  When we came from the office Beki was already captured by the other members of SDU who knew what he was, what he was doing.

MR SHANE: This office, are you referring to a house in Tokoza which was used by the Self-Defence Unit as an office?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: And is it in this house where the Self-Defence Unit kept their AK-47 weapons?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: You, after you were patrolling you say you arrived at this office, which you call an office, and the deceased was already there.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Will you please repeat the question, sir.

MR SHANE: After you were patrolling, you went to the SDU office, and at that office you found the deceased, Beki Khanyile.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: And he had been brought there by other members of the Self-Defence Unit?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Will you tell what happened after you saw him in this office.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: He was already there when we arrived.  The, as the Inkatha people were our enemies we knew that if we found one IFP member that person should be killed.

MR SHANE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So what happened?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: We found Beki Khanyile there in the office.  He was going to be killed because he was an IFP member, the members, the organisation, the member of the organisation that was regarded as bad people.

MR SHANE: Now he was being guarded by other SDU members.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Who were those members who were guarding him?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: It was quite a large number of people.  All the SDU members were there because that was a place where they used to meet.

MR SHANE: Right, and ...(intervention)

ADV GCABASHE: Mr Mbatha, - sorry Mr Shane, give us an idea as to how many members were there, you found there.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I cannot be able to estimate because it was quite a number, a large number of people.

ADV GCABASHE: So if I just said 30, 50, is that the type of number you are thinking of?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: From 50 upwards.

ADV GCABASHE: Who was your commander?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Muchacho was the commander at that time.

ADV GCABASHE: Was Muchacho there?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, he was present.

ADV GCABASHE: And the area we are talking about is Tambo Slovo, so Muchacho was commander of Tambo Slovo?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, he was the commander of Tambo Slovo.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Shane.

MR SHANE: Now, in that office you took an AK-47.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: What did you do with that AK-47?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I shot him.

MR SHANE: Can you remember where you shot him?  Where the bullet landed?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: No, I cannot remember, because it was dark.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you aim it?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I aimed it at his body.

CHAIRPERSON: Which part of his body?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: In front, in his front part of his, in the front part of his body.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you know it was the deceased there at that house when you arrived?  Could you see?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Will you please repeat the question, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: When you arrived there you say you saw the deceased.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, I saw him.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you able to identify him?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, I could identify him.

CHAIRPERSON: It wasn't too dark to do so?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: It was not dark because he was in the house and the light was on.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, when you shot him, you say it was too dark to say where on his body he was injured.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes.  We shot him outside the Nkatije School, it was in the veld.  Nkatije LP School.

CHAIRPERSON: So he was transferred from that house to a school yard for the purposes of killing him?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: It was not in the school yard, just between the two schools.

CHAIRPERSON: Where it was dark?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, it was dark there.

MR SHANE: How many shots did you fire?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I couldn't count the shots because I was using an automatic rifle.

MR SHANE: After you fired your shots, what did you do, with your weapon?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: I handed it over to Ernest Buthelezi, who was also a member of SDU.

MR SHANE: Is Ernest Buthelezi also know as Mzwake?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is Mzwake.

MR SHANE: What did Mzwake do?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: He took the firearm and he shot.

MR SHANE: He shot the same person?  Beki?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes.

MR SHANE: And then what did he do after he shot Beki?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: He handed it over to Muchacho.

MR SHANE: Yes, and what did Muchacho do?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: He also fired.

MR SHANE: Now, it is thus possible that either you, or Mzwake, or Muchacho's shots caused the death of Beki Khanyile.

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: But you were the one who fired the most shots.  Is that correct?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: Yes.

MR SHANE: Did you, or do you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: What was the purpose of different people shooting the same person?

MBUSI PASSION MBATHA: The treatment that they gave to us, we just felt like we should just kill them, we had no alternative, it was the anger.