Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-03

INTERPRETER: Okay, let's rectify that, Chairperson.

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: Nobody responded to my shout when I called out to their names.  I then pushed the people who were lying on top of me.  I didn't know who they were because it was dark in the house.  I only realised that I could not move when I attempted to get up and walk.  I then remained there for a while and somebody responded, asking whether I was still alive and who am I and I indicated that I am Tebello, I am still alive and my whole body is burning from the bottom to the top, I cannot move and he indicated that he was thinking of going out to seek some help.  I then realised that it was Stanley because he had already identified himself.  I then requested him, that is just before he went out, people were dying and I was in the process of dying too, I requested that he takes me out of the shack and hide me among the mielie fields because these people might come back.  He did not listen to me.  When he went out of the house, he started making noise.  His explanation is that he travelled, or walked a distance from the house to the street shouting, by which time a lot of people had started gathering and he then gave them an explanation to the effect that they had now been injured.
	There were people who came to the scene first.  These were not members of my family, but neighbours.  One such person was Skolo, he was a next-door neighbour.  He was a middle-aged person and Mdo as well.  When they came it was dark.  There was poor visibility and he lit some matches.  On lighting matches he exclaimed with shock and he withdrew, he went out of the house.  That's when I started realising that indeed a person is badly injured.  
	The second group of people to come in were my two uncles.  They attempted to lift me up, but they realised that they could not.  They tried to put me onto a blanket then they lifted me by the blanket.  When they came, a van had already arrived, that is the van into which I was taken and they covered me with a sail, or a canvass.  Before this van left, came this police minibus.  It had doors on both sides and when these people explained, they said they had come for the injured people.  By that time I had already been taken away in that van, so they missed us.  
	Then I was taken to Makhote Hospital.  When I arrived at Makhote Hospital I was told that they could not help me because they didn't have certain machines, so that I had to be taken to King Edward Hospital.  There were certain whites with whom we worked at the King Edward Hospital.  These whites had come from the Black Sash.  These are the people who took me and hid me in a certain compartment, because when we arrived there we were told that the police had been there looking for us.  
	I refused to go to the theatre until about 2 o'clock.  My aunt arrived at 9 o'clock in the morning.  By that time I had already been informed that others with whom we were shot, had already died.  It was my aunt who convinced me to go to the theatre.
	I think I regained consciousness after 6 or 7 days because my family say I would stare at them when they came to visit me but I would not say a thing.   So when I regained consciousness, I inquired as to what happened.  They explained the whole story again.  I managed to have a recollection of the whole scene and I had several gun shot wounds on my body, about 9 of them, I think, such that I spent about 4 to 5 months recuperating in hospital.  	There was a time when I was under police guard and some police would come and take statements from me.  We had a lawyer, Mr Shezi.  He came to me.  He indicated to me that I should not give the police any statement.  If they wanted to arrest me, so be it.  I had already read in the newspapers stories to the effect that we had fired shots at the police.  The police who were guarding me spent about a month, if I'm not mistaken, after which they disappeared.  I have no reason to say I know why they disappeared.  I think what explanation I have given you here is, to my knowledge, according to what happened.

MR SHEZI: So, Mr Mbatha, these people came in a vehicle and after the shooting, they drove back, in a vehicle?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: That is correct.

MR SHEZI: And you also mentioned that, at the time when they were there with you initially, you were all sitting one side and with them on the other side, they were standing by the door?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: That is correct.

MR SHEZI: During the discussions between you and these people, you mentioned that they asked you for the problems which you had in Chesterville.  Did they ask you as to what do you have as equipment to counter or solve those problems?

INTERPRETER: I would like to request the witness to wait for the interpreter to finish first.

MR SHEZI: Okay, so they offered you that they were going to provide you with firearms and ammunition?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: Yes, that's what they told us.

MR SHEZI: Would you say between you and these people, some form of a relationship of trust, if one could say so, within that very short space of time, had developed?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: We indicated that we were trusting them because we were free as we were talking to them.  I could see they could not trust us according to what I heard from them, but we had trust though that raised suspicions when I wanted to go out to relieve myself, I did not do anything when he refused me going out, because if we had any suspicions we would go out by force.

MR SHEZI: Two more last questions.  Did you have firearms or hand grenades at that time, at the time of the conversation and during their visit?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: No.

MR SHEZI: The shots which they say were fired supposedly from within the shack, did such a thing ever happen?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: That never happened.

MR SHEZI: You said that you were in the process of going to sleep and one of you was half naked, is that so?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: The other one was in pyjamas, that was an indication that we were ready to go to bed.

MR SHEZI: And Charles, there is this Charles who has been referred to quite often as a person that they were looking for, was there such a person by the name of Charles amongst you in the group at the attack?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: There was no Charles.  They did inquire about him.  There was a person with Charles' height who had permed hair.  Charles had hair that looked more like a coloured person.  I think they thought that person was Charles.

MR SHEZI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that will be all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHEZI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Shezi.  Mr Ramawele, any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Maybe, Mr Chairperson, before Mr Ramawele?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Who was that person who was permed with the long hair looking like Charles?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: It was Russell, Russell Ngomezulu.

MR SIBANYONI: When you said you regained consciousness, do you mean there was a stage where you had lost consciousness?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: Yes, there was some time when I did not know what was happening to me.  I was still in the hospital, for  4 to 5 days, I'm not sure.

MR SIBANYONI: At what stage did you lose consciousness?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: After coming from theatre, because I know everything that was happening before being taken to the theatre.  I know very well that I refused to go to the theatre from when I arrived at the hospital until 9 o'clock the next morning.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Ramawele.

MR RAMAWELE: Thanks, Mr Chairman, I've got no questions.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR RAMAWELE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Cornelius, any questions?

MR CORNELIUS: Only four questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you testify at the inquest?

TEBELLO TRYWELL MBATHA: No, I never testified.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you consider the Security Police at that time as your enemy?