Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you and I will ask you to give your testimony freely. So that all the people inside this hall can hear you very well.  I will ask one of the Commissioners to help you with the oath.

MR MALAN: Would you please stand to take the oath.

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: (Duly sworn, states).

MR MALAN: Thank you very much, you may be seated.

CHAIRPERSON: I will ask one of the Commissioners to help you so that he/she helps you to give your testimony.  Commissioner Sooka will help you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma Mtshali, can you hear me?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, I do.

YASMINE SOOKA: Before you begin tell us about the disappearance of your son, I think you would appreciate if you could just tell us a little bit about him, where he worked, what he was doing at the time of his death and whether at the time of his disappearance, and whether he was involved in any political activity.

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: My son disappeared in 1987. He was working at Umbogintwini. His name was David Mtshali.

YASMINE SOOKA: Pull that slightly closer and if you could raise your voice a little bit.

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: My son was working at Umbogintwini magistrate. He was working with Mr Mpanga. One day Mr Mpanga - it was in NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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November - we were not at home, we were at work.  I left with my son.  When we came home we could not find him.  When we asked Mr Mpanga said the magistrate sent them to Natal.  When Mr Mpanga came back from Natal he said they took someone there as well.  When he came on Monday he came along, my son was not with him. 
 When we asked Mr Mpanga where was my son, Mpanga said when they were at Germiston my son stood up and said he was going back home.  Mr Mpanga said my son went and caught a train. I asked him was he drunk or what. Mr Mpanga said no. When he came back home Mr Mpanga just gave us my son's ID and my son's travelling bag.  
 We went to the police station together with Mr Mpanga. We went and saw Mr Smuts. We told them the whole story.  Mr Smuts said no, Mr Mpanga you must tell us where the boys is, you can't bring us his ID and his bag.  
 They said this story we need to tell the Commissioner.  My husband and myself went to Umbogintwini magistrate.  We told them that you took ur child without our permission and now our child is not coming back home.  He said no, your child is happy in that area there, he will come back.  You go back home and stay there.  We were puzzled about that. Because we expected the Commissioner to ask Mr Mpanga more about my son's disappearance. He told us we must go back and stay.  
 We went back home. His father could not relax. He kept on going up and down to mortuaries, hospitals, he went everywhere.  He spent a lot of time fetching for my son.  He went back home.  We went back to the Umbogintwini magistrate, the Commissioner. We told them that we can't find our son.  
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YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma. I am going to ask you a few questions.  Are you okay, can we carry on?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, you can ask me.

YASMINE SOOKA: Would you like to give her some water, please.  Mamma, I am just going to ask you a few questions to make sure that we get the story down properly.
 What was your son employed as at the magistrate's court?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: He was an admin officer.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was Mr Mpanga an admin officer as well?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, he was.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was your son also a comrade?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, he was a comrade.

YASMINE SOOKA: Where he was employed did they know that?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, they do know that, because he was working there with the magistrate.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know what the name of the magistrate was who was in charge?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: No, it was a white man.

YASMINE SOOKA: What did Mr Mpanga say that he and your son was supposed to go and do in KwaZulu/Natal?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: The magistrate asked them to take someone to KwaZulu/Natal. I don't know why and why they had taken that person.  Mpanga only came back.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were they going to travel by train to KwaZulu/Natal?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: I think so, because Mpanga also brought a train ticket and also brought his ID.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, how old was your son at the time when this happened?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: He was born in 1960.
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YASMINE SOOKA: What do you think happened to your son?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: I think they killed him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Why do you think that?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: That's all I can come up with when I think.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were there any rumours, did you not talk to any of your son's friends, was nobody ever able to give you any kind of explanation of something they might have heard?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: I can't take rumours because rumours are leading to the magistrate and the magistrate was supposed to take over this investigation, but the magistrate could not do anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you go back another time to the magistrate after your son had not come back after a month, did you visit him again?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, I went back and I told the magistrate that my son has died.  He asked me why; I said to him I can see that, I know.  He said to me no, he will come back.

YASMINE SOOKA: Is this magistrate still around this area?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: I can't tell that really, because I just stopped looking for my son.  Because also, my husband got sick and he could not do it any more.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know if Mr Mpanga is still around?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Mr Mpanga is my neighbour.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much.  I will give other Commisioners a chance to ask you questions, if they do have  questions to ask you.  These questions will help you to give your testimony.  Wynand Malan will ask you now.

MR MALAN: Mamma Mtshali, how long was your son working at the magistrate's court when he disappeared?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: I can't tell how many years.
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MR MALAN: I understand that from your response, that he did in fact work at least for some years there, before he disappeared.

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, he worked for a long time, but I can't tell the years.

MR MALAN: In November 1989 - when you gave evidence this morning, at least the translation was saying that this happened in 1987.  Was it indeed 1989?  Can you remember the year?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: This happened in 1987, 1989. 1989, if I can remember very well.

MR MALAN: Did you ever, after your son disappeared, got any payments from the magistrate for pension or for salary that was due to your son?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: No, I didn't receive anything.

MR MALAN: Did they not approach you in order to try and find out where he was so that if they could effect payment of salaries due to him?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: No one came, except them saying that my son will come back, I must go home and relax.

MR MALAN: Just a last question from my side.  Mr Mpanga, when he came back and when he told you that your son  disappeared at Germiston station, he gave you this bag in which you said was the ID and a train ticket and in your statement you also said tablets.  Can you tell us something about these tablets?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: Yes, there were also tablets.  I suspect they were headache tablets.

MR MALAN: He wasn't on medication?

NOMASONTO BETTIE MTSHALI: No, all I can say is that maybe he needed the pain-killers when he was on the way.

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MR MALAN: Do you know what these tablets were, the name of the tablets?