Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

PROF MAGWAZA: So you are the breadwinner?  You're the only  breadwinner in the family?

WITNESS:   That's correct.  I work three days at the ANC offices.

PROF MAGWAZA: Can you tell us briefly about your health?  How has this affected your health and that of your family?

WITNESS:  I cannot explain because I'm always in this condition. Especially when I remember my son.  Especially when I look at his age group.  I keep on telling myself he would be working for me today and I keep on telling myself I would be living like a queen.

PROF MAGWAZA: Your husband, Mr Jackson Xhamfu, you lost a job because you were so disturbed by your son's death.  How are you feeling now?

WITNESS:   I'm very traumatised and I'm very disturbed about my son's death.  I think that as other children are now working for their parents, probably he would also be working for us and he would be our breadwinner.  He would be building his own and he would be maintaining us as I've already lost my job and I cannot get a job because they keep on telling me that I'm rather too old now to get a job.  Now I'm destitute.  I'm being supported by my wife and she's also having a piece job only for three days.  I'm destitute.  I've got no ways to make ends meet.

PROF MAGWAZA: To what extent has it affected your other children?  Are they coping?

WITNESS:   They were also very traumatised emotionally.  They were disturbed.  The whole family actually was disturbed.  All of us because we lost a son, they lost a brother and the manner in which he died traumatised them even more.  But because death is something that will always be there, at times it feels like we have forgotten about his death but there are days, very dark days, when we talk about him, when we  miss him, and this traumatises and disturbs the whole family because there are times when we just feel like talking about him as if he was there.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay, thank you very much, Baba.  We thank you very much for such a detailed information about your son's death and circumstances of his death.  We will honour your request and we will do as much as we can and also when we make our final recommendation we'll keep your family in mind.  But also again I would like to say you are a strong, close couple and I think it's one of the things that has helped you through this process.  Thank you very much.  Some of the families actually break.  We've had some of the families where they've lost a child and the family simply falls apart.  But in you it looks like you've just gone stronger and stronger.  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   My last request to this Commission - I would like this Commission to investigate further as to why Bloemfontein - Bloemfontein is quite near Welkom - why wasn't I told earlier on that my son had died so that I could take my son's body and bury him?  Why did they bury him as an unknown male?  Where did they get this right because I was just nearby?  I want the Commission to try and find out as to why his death was hidden.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Xhamfu, we have noted that.  It would appear that in your family you have another victim - Victor.  In your statement you said that Victor had many detentions which resulted in him being affected in hearing.  His ears were affected.

WITNESS:   That is true.

CHAIRPERSON: How is Victor now?

WITNESS:   He's surviving but this  has affected him so drastically because puss always comes out of his ears and he's suffering from hearing because ... (incomplete translation)

CHAIRPERSON: Does he get any medical treatment?

WITNESS:   No, he's not getting any medical treatment.  Whenever he is not feeling well we always take him to the doctor just for him to get treatment for that particular moment.  Then thereafter he would cease to take the treatment.  Then after some time whenever he gets these attacks we will take him to the doctor.  That's how we survive.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he working?

WITNESS:   No, he's not working.

CHAIRPERSON: So he's also another victim in your family because he suffered under the police under the old regime.  Maybe his case too needs to be attended to and his case needs to be referred to, as I said before, to our co-ordinators who are here so that they can see what can happen with him.  Baba, your story is very painful.  It's a common story of many parents in our country who had children especially sons.  Very painful indeed to have our son killed somewhere and buried and you hear after a long time that your son is buried.  There is nothing which is precious to a parent like a child.  It reminds me of the old story in the Bible when King David cried bitterly and he had to fast even for the son who wanted to kill him.  His own son wanted to kill him but when he heard that his son was killed he cried bitterly - that was Absolom - showing how much emotionally the parents can be about their own children when they are killed.  We thank you for coming.  We feel the pain with you.  We're experiencing it now ourselves and, as the Commission members have just said, we'll to see that  your requests are taken to the President for consideration.  We don't guarantee that what you have asked for will be given but we'll try out best because yours is a very painful incident.  Thank you very much?

WITNESS:   We also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We are supposed to break.  Let us not move, please.  I thought I had said the process except the councillors ... (inaudible) ... that one, I thought when we began I said the process is going to be that we must discipline ourselves.  It's only witnesses who will go first when we stand remaining quiet until they leave, etcetera.  We are just sorry, the Commissioners, that tea - as we go for tea - is only provided for the witnesses.  We are very sorry about that.  We were unable to provide tea for everybody.  It is only provided for the witnesses and we're going to come back at 12 o'clock sharp.  Please, let us come back and be seated quietly at 12 o'clock sharp.  Now, as we stand, I'm going to ask the briefers to lead out the witnesses.  May we stand, please.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
/ON RESUMPTION
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: May I know among you who is Theresia?

THERESIA MOSIMANE: I am Theresia.

CHAIRPERSON: And the other one is who?

THERESIA MOSIMANE: This is my daughter, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is your daughter accompanying you?

THERESIA MOSIMANE: Yes, this is my daughter, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Will she also speak or she's just accompanying you?

THERESIA MOSIMANE: No, she's just accompanying me.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mama Theresia, can you stand you and take the oath that what you're going to say here is true, God being your helper.

THERESIA MOSIMANE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Mosimane, thank you very much for coming and also we appreciate the fact that you're accompanied by your daughter.  It shows that this family is together and they're supporting each other.  We appreciate that very much because when you suffer so much you need to be together and support each other.  Mama Theresia, you have come here to tell the story about the death of your son.  Is it true?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And your son's name is Sabata Francis, that's true?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you just give us the picture of your family?  Who are you and your family?  Where do you live?  How many children?  Is there the father or not, etcetera, etcetera, so that we have the idea about your family.    /---   Sir,

CHAIRPERSON: ---   Sir, do you want me to tell you how many are we at home or in my family?

CHAIRPERSON: I mean your immediate family.  That is your husband, if he's there, and your children, not further, not the extended family.