Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, the following entry it appears that - which you commenced to refer to, at 23H26 you were booked out on the 18th of April by Captain Deetliefs, is that correct?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And were you interrogated by Captain Deetliefs?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was interrogated by Captain Deetliefs until the time indicated on the next entry Mr Chairman, which was the 19th of the 4th at 18H54.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, on the 19th of April 1993, did Colonel Van Niekerk speak to you?  It does not appear on this document, I want to refer you to the Section 29 proceedings.  I don't have a copy right now Mr Chairman, it is dated the 19th of April 1993.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct, I was interviewed by Colonel Van Niekerk Mr Chairman, yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And what did he say to you?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Well Mr Chairman, he indicated to me that they intended placing me under Section 29 detention and they could keep me under that Section 29 detention for as long as they liked with various manipulations and that unless I cooperated with them, I would be placed under Section 29 detention.
	After that he indicated to me that if he placed me under Article 29 detention, he could force me to say whatever I wanted them to say and that until I had done that, I would have been detained under Article, Section 29 of the Act.
	He also said Mr Chairman, that should I be willing to cooperate with them, they would first of all ensure, they would give me the assurance that both Mr Janusz Walus and myself would be granted, he first said indemnity and then when I corrected him because I knew there was no longer a facility for indemnity as a result of the expiry of that particular legislation, he then corrected himself and said no amnesty.
	He then reassured me that the two of us would be granted amnesty.  He also reassured me with the statement that he would not bother my wife in any way, but that if I decided not to cooperate I would be totally isolated, they would arrest my wife, they would prevent me from any contact with people, with radio, with television, with newspapers, until such time as I had given my cooperation which satisfied them.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, were you indeed on that day, the 19th of April arrested by Colonel van Niekerk and placed in detention in terms of Section 29 of the Internal Security Act?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Now, Mr Derby-Lewis, in the cell where you were detained, were you sleeping on a bed, or how were sleeping?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No Mr Chairman, I was detained in a cell on my own with a cement floor which had a single covering about the size of a mattress, but it was actually a covering of felt which was about that thick, sorry about 75 mm, is that three quarters of an inch.

JUDGE WILSON: Three centimetres.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Three centimetres Mr Chairman, about 3 cm thick, it was obvious from the appearance of the cell Mr Chairman, that there had been considerable water leakage on the floor from the toilet which had been recently repaired, there was still wet plaster on the walls when I came in and there were still pools of water on the floor.
	The only other item of furniture in the room was a brick type of table with a concrete slab and although it was at that stage April, it was already extremely cold in that cell.
	The cell Mr Chairman, was located next to a cell which contained I don't know how many occupants, and I gathered subsequently that they were members of APLA and they proceeded to kick up a racket 24 hours a day, making sleep impossible.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, whilst you were detained in terms of Section 29, were you interrogated by Captain Deetliefs and Warrant Officer Beetge?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And were they including Colonel Van Niekerk members of the Security Branch?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Just a moment Mr Chairman.  If you look at page 7 Mr Derby-Lewis, bundle E, Mr Chairman, you were booked out is it correct, for an investigation?  Have a look at it?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, Mr Chairman, on the 20th of April 1993 I was booked at 04H30 by a certain Warrant Officer Beukes whom I don't recall.

MR PRINSLOO: When were you again returned to the cells?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I was returned to the cells on that same day Mr Chairman, at 09H50.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that the same day or the following day?  You were booked out at 04H30, is that in the morning?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That was 4:30 in the morning, yes Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: I beg your pardon, yes, and you returned to the cells at 09h50. ... (tape ends) ...  Mr Derby-Lewis, during that interrogation of Warrant Officer Beetge and Captain Deetliefs, did you make any notes, were you allowed to make any notes at that stage or what was the position?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I made no notes Mr Chairman at that stage.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, again (indistinct) occasion I will refer you to bundle R4 Mr Chairman, page 54.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Just before I refer to the document I mentioned, Mr Derby-Lewis, did you receive information during your detention that your wife, Mrs Gaye Derby-Lewis, was arrested?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, after I had been compelled to cooperate as I mentioned, one of the conditions for my cooperation was that my wife would not be bothered.  During the process of interrogation, the subsequent process of interrogation, while it was backwards and forwards where I was told about certain things that had to be included in the statement otherwise it wouldn't be complete, and I was busy correcting and rewriting and drawing up, I was informed by a member of the Security Branch that my wife had been arrested.
	It then became obvious to me that I had been totally mislead by someone that I expected to be someone of integrity, who if he says something, then obviously you must accept it.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, if you look at the document referred to at page 54 which is the typed document, and if you look at the page 27 Mr Chairman, which is a written document, that is the same document?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is the same document.

MR PRINSLOO: The one is just a typed version and the one is a written document?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Now, the written document starting from page 27 is that in your handwriting?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: I will refer you to the typed document, it is more legible, for the convenience of the Committee Mr Chairman, Mr Derby-Lewis, you have gone through the document and I am not going to labour the document, if you look at paragraph 1 onwards, to page 65 Mr Chairman, so ending at page 64 the last paragraph 43 on page 64.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: The information from paragraph 1 up to there, is that correct the information contained therein?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: With many typing errors and spelling errors excluded, it is correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: That means paragraph 43?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Paragraph 43 Mr Chairman, yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Now starting at page 65, paragraph 44, it is over the page, will you read to the Committee this paragraph?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Paragraph 45?

MR PRINSLOO: 44.