Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-02-10

MR MADLALA: During that time we were staying at Nada, at Chief Shiyabante Zondi's place.   Because there was another gentleman known by the name of Lawrence Zuma.  During that time Chief Shiyabante Zondi told us that we should join the Police Force.  During those days he took us to Maroa House near Edendale.  There we were asked details about ourselves and we gave our details and we were all members of the IFP.  After that we went back home.  We stayed at home for about a week and after a week we were told that we were supposed to go for our training.  We left by buses to the training centre.  It was in Cape Town at Koeberg.  We left by buses.  We were all members of the IFP.  There was no one belonging to the ANC.  When we arrived there we were put in groups and we were taught lots of orders and laws and they explained all of them to us, that if you arrest someone who has broken the law you must do this and this and then afterwards at about past 11 we were taken to march.  After two weeks
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after we arrived in Cape Town, one member came from Maritzburg from a Security Branch.  That member was Mr Webb.  Mr Webb came to Cape Town by helicopter.  When he arrived there he told us that things were bad at Maritzburg.  People were killed and those people were IFP members who were killed.  We were shown video tapes and we saw people who were being necklaced by tyres and we saw houses were burnt down and people were killed.  We saw all this in a video tape.  And all those people who were being killed were IFP members.  Then we were told that we were supposed to finish our training soon so that we go back and fight UDF and ANC and we were told that UDF were members of the ANC, or they were sent by ANC that they must overthrow the Government.  We were told that we must come back to Pietermaritzburg and kill everyone who belonged to UDF or ANC and we were given guns.  We were taught how to shoot and we were taught how to march as well. 
	After six weeks we came back from Cape Town to Maritzburg.  When we arrived in Maritzburg we were put at Umbali Railway Hostel.  We didn't stay there that long, we were taken to Oriep(?).  There was a huge riot station there.  That's where we were taken.  We arrived there and Captain Eugene Terblanche was the one who welcomed us.  He told us that since we were from Cape Town we were supposed to work here in Pietermaritzburg like we were taught in Cape Town.  We mustn't be scared of anything and we must harass ANC, and if it comes to a push we must kill them.  We mustn't be scared because all those cases were going to be over.  He, Mr Terblanche, was going to put those cases aside.  And we were allocated to secure IFP prominent people or to safeguard those houses.  
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After that we were stopped doing that and now we were given police vans.  All these things were happening and when we were meeting people who were meeting ANC sheets we were supposed to kill them or to harass them.  
	It was like nothing.  Also we were working at Hammersdale and we were killing people there and after a person has been killed, Captain Eugene Terblanche was the one who was there first before anyone could be there.  We also worked in Greytown, Richmond, doing the same job.  And also here in Maritzburg, also in C-Vale. 
	On the 24th February we received a message that we must go and safeguard a meeting.  That was an ANC meeting.  It was going to occur at Noshesi area.  We took a police van, we went there and at Noshesi.  When we arrived there we found supporters of ANC and they were marching and singing, toyi-toyi and we realised that as they were singing and marching they were also naming IFP members and we go angry at that because we were IFP members and we didn't agree with their songs.  That's where we started as well toyi-toying and then other people who came to see Mr Harrington, who was the guy who was looking after the group which we were working at.  They told him that what we were doing they didn't like it.  
	Mr Harrington told us that we must stop doing that and he told us that the ANC wasn't happy.  The meeting went on.  After that meeting we left Noshesi, we passed Nateni.  When we arrived at Dambuza, just before we arrived at the railway lines, we saw a group of boys.  If I am not mistaken they were 15.  All those boys who were there they had ANC T-shirts.  Some of the T-shirts had just President Mandela's photograph.  Some of them Sisulu's.  After that I saw a car
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stop and Erasmus got out from that car together with Mr Harrington and they said to us we must go and search those boys.  We went, all of us, no one remained at the van.  We all went to the boys.  We told them to stand up;  we started searching them.  When we were searching them, the one I was searching, when I asked him his surname he told me he was Mkhize.  There was no conflict between me and him because Mbongeni disrupted me.  He told others that these policemen, we must shoot them and we must kill them like we killed the IFP people at Shange.  When I heard that this boy is saying this, I got angry because I remembered that there were a group of IFP people who were killed at Shange.  Now I told Harrington, I said to him, here's this guy now confessing that he's the one who was involved at Mbongeni's killing.  Now we realised that he was hard and then Erasmus and Harrington arrested him.  They put him at the back of the van.  Harrington came with us inside the van, at the back of the van, and we didn't close the back door, and we were ready for any action.  
	When Harrington got at the back of the van we went to Georgetown.   When we arrived at Georgetown Mbongeni was busy screaming, asking where he was being taken.  Erasmus stopped the van and then he came at the back.  He started harassing Mbongeni.  He hit Mbongeni.  He told Mbongeni to keep quiet.  After that he asked us what we wanted to do or where we wanted to go.  We explained to him that it was now late and we were about to go back home.  It was fine for him if he can take us back home and take others who were supposed to go to work.  That's what he did.  
	When we left Georgetown we were still with Mr Harrington.  He wasn't at the front, he was in the back.
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He started choking Mbongeni by his belt.  At that time the van was mobile and we were busy asking him, are you the one who wants to kill us, the IFP members, why do you want to kill us?  There were only a few people who didn't know that we were IFP members, even though we were special constables.  We travelled and Mr Jama was being assaulted, Harrington was choking him using his belt.  That's where I saw a diary.  This diary had names.  Names of the people, IFP members.  There was a name Mbalazi Vezi.  Mbalazi Vezi according to my knowledge was an IFP prominent member at Richmond.  And there were also names of the houses which were supposed to be burnt. 
	At that time Harrington was asking what was on the diary, was asking Mr Dhlamini, who was another member who  was arrested together with me, even though he has now been released.  What I cannot tell you is that I don't know what happened to the diary eventually, because I was sitting at the back of the van and I was holding the door.  
	We arrived to Elandskop.  We stopped somewhere at Elandskop at Gqwanamu near the bottle store.  That bottle store belonged to Mr Gqinamu.  Harrington and Mr Erasmus and Mr Dhlamini, they got off the van.  Immediately after they got off Mr Jama tried to grab the gun from Mr Dhlamini.  He couldn't and Mr Harrington caught him. 
	When he caught him he came with him back to the van and we put him at the back of the van alone;  we closed the back of the van.  Erasmus now told us that he was thirsty, he needed something to drink, something cold.  We told them that we didn't have money, but we can go and buy cooldrink for them at Mr Bengu's store.  We took the van;  we left them there.  Mr Dhlamini was also there at the back of the
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van.  We went to the shop, we took the drink, we came back.  We travelled about 2kms from the bottle store to the area where we left Harrington and Mr Erasmus.  When we got back we gave them the cooldrink.  
	At that moment Mr Erasmus said we must kill Mr Jama.  As he was saying this, all of us police constables, we wanted to kill Mr Jama because Mr Jama was an ANC man and also he confessed that he was there when IFP members were killed.  So we all agreed that he must be killed.  No one refused or denied that.  All of us, we agreed that he must be killed.  And then Mr Bengu said he is going to show us the place where we can kill Mr Jama so that they don't discover his body soon.  We got into the van.  
	Mr Bengu and Mr Erasmus got in at the front of the van so that he can show Mr Erasmus where to stop where we can kill Mr Jama.  We left that bottle store for about 5km and then we turned to a bush nearby.  We travelled in the bush and then we stopped somewhere.  When we stopped there Mr Harrington took Mr Jama out.  When they got outside Jama fell and then he started running.  Mr Harrington ran after him.  I ran after them too.  We were trying to catch Mr Jama, myself and Mr Harrington.  That's when Mr Harrington took out his gun and aim at Jama.  At that time he wanted to give me the gun that I must shoot Jama.  Then Harrington said no, don't be a fool.  If you kill this person using this gun when they discover this body they will discover the bullet and they will realise that it was our gun that shot him.  
	Jama ran and Mr Harrington caught him.  When he caught him, Mr Harrington had this belt, the one that he was using at the back of the van.  Now he caught him where Jama fell
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and there were stones and rocks.  Jama fell and Mr Harrington fell on top of Jama and then he started choking him using that belt.  
	Later Mr Jama couldn't move at all.  Mr Harrington said to Mr Dhlamini, Mr Dhlamini must give me his gun because Mr Dhlamini had a (indistinct) gun and he said to me I must shoot Mr Jama.  I told Mr Harrington that no, I can't do that because he is already dead.  There is no need for me to shoot him.  
	Mr Harrington said no, it might happen that he is just unconscious and he can regain consciousness and he can name us.  That's when I shot Mr Jama.  Of course I had this will of killing Mr Jama.  Because I wanted him to die as well, to follow those people whom he killed.  It was IFP members;  that's when I shot him.  Mr Harrington took branches from the tree and put those branches on top of Mr Jama's body.  We left.   Mr Harrington was at the back of the van.  He had a branch with him and he was wiping the wheels of the van so that people cannot realise that it has mud.  It has been somewhere in the bushes.  Mr Harrington got off the back of the car when we got to the main road and when we arrived at the first stop we stopped.  That's where I was supposed to get off.  Mr Bengu and Mr Dhlamini as well. 
	We got off and Mr Harrington got off and told us that now that we have finished what we have done, we mustn't tell this to anyone.  Whatever happened belonged to just us.  We've killed this person who did all these things at KwaShane and who is also an ANC member.  Then they left, Mr Harrington and Mr Venter. 
	After that we were supposed to be off and we were supposed to go back to work after a day.  When we arrived 
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at work that it wasn't all of us, and I didn't even think that maybe some of them were arrested and we went to David's house in Church Street, Maritzburg and they told me that we killed someone and I denied that at first because I didn't know at that time that there was any of us who has been arrested and I denied everything.  Then they showed me a statement and they told me that there's a statement.  Erasmus has already made a statement.  When I saw the statement that's when I realised that Mr Erasmus and Mr Harrington are now pushing the case to me.  Now they are shifting everything to me.  That's when I gave the police statement, another statement.  Even though those two statements were looking similar, but they were not the same until we appeared in court and we were sentenced. 
	When we were sentenced my sentence and Mr Harrington's sentence was the same sentence, eight years, eight years, and Mr Erasmus was six years.   We went to prison. 
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