Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-27

LAURENS MBATHA: It all started whilst I was still around in Kimberley.  It was in 1983, 84, if I recall, actually, quite well. I was actually amongst those students that one would define, at that stage, really, not so involved, because of the political system by then you were really worried that being a member of the structures by then to us, simply meant within no time whatever gathering that we will conduct, tomorrow for you was jail.  So, one was really concerned and scared at that time, until an incident did occur.  My mother, actually, can pay a witness and some of my neighbours on the street.
	We were playing as kids in front of our home with some of the friends that I had.  By then they called it, actually, a Caspar, it is, actually, now a Buffel.  There were soldiers inside that Buffel who came, actually, passing by and it immediately, actually, halted in front of us.  Because of the nature of the vehicle, which was very, that we were not comfortable with, we, actually, flee out of the scene.  The soldiers, actually, did actually chase us.  I happened not to have ran, actually, into our home, because for me it was not safe.  It was only my mother there.  I continued, actually, to jump the fences to the following street.  
	Unfortunately, it happened that I should be caught and was picked up by the soldiers into a Caspar.  My mother, actually, came running towards that Caspar.  It was about 93, 94, because she wanted to find out exactly what have I done.  As, they, actually, responded in turn by saying I was part of a group who, actually, has lifted up a fist, by then symbolising Amandla and I was part of those, when the Caspar came, apparently, insulted them and that was a blue lie.  My mother tried to talk to me, they told her they are not prepared even to listen to her further, they drove away  with me.  There is a place in Kimberley, as they used the Barkley Road, Barkley West Road. It is, actually, popularly known as the Langboom.  Those are the tall trees.
	They, actually, took me up to there where, actually, I was severely tortured by them and some of the words which were uttered to me, it was very clear that I must know it as from now on that my grandfather was a kaffir, my pas is 'n kaffir en ek gaan dood gaan en vrek as 'n kaffir.  That I should know, because they are not prepared to come and listen to me, any nonsense further than that point.  I tried to plead.  It is repeated that I might not recall that soldier inside there, elderly by age, because I was not conversant with the rank system at that, but the young ones were in part of that Buffel.  I could read from their eyes they were very pathetic and sympathetic, because they were young.
	What they actually did, they put the two Buffels together.  My hands, actually, they had to pull into the other Buffel and the other one into the other Buffel and they started, actually, slapping me in my face.  That slapping continued until, I think, the senior one came, started kicking at me, especially on my ankles.  I was thrown down that Buffel on the ground where the very senior one came and pressed, actually, his leg, actually, right on top of my head.  It was a sandy area, I was alone in that area.  Up until at the time I was coughing blood.  
	One situation, actually, did occur that I would say did actually save me from them, because I never knew what they were going to do.  I think it was one of the schools from that distance where we went, we could see, actually, the smoke rising up.  I was, actually, left there with my trousers torn apart.  They left me there, ran into the Buffels and they drove off.  I regard that one, actually, as my point, where all my anger regarding the system started at.  It was after that fear, my mother, actually, took a decision, in 1995, fearing that, actually, I might end up being politically involved also, actually took me to Namibia to a school popularly known as Jakob Marengu.  
	Unfortunately, the school that they took me to happened to have been constituted by students who came from South Africa with different political backgrounds.  At that school, it is where, actually, one became more conversant, politically, regarding to certain issues.  I became involved in the youth league of Swapo by then that was internally based and a number of community related activities where there was a community based club.  The stuff, actually, was more based on acting and it was called, if I recall it well, Club 1000.  During my involvement at that stage, my links coming closer with the youth league of Swapo, as a member of Numsa also, that is the student organisation, literature, actually, became to our exposure, because we knew exactly if I wanted any political literature, where one of the members, who happen not to be here today, I learnt it later that he has passed away, he is originally from Upington and that is Tulani.  I might not recall his surname.
	We had a way of obtaining any political literature that we want and I remember the first one that came into my possession was the one of our present President now, The Long Walk to Freedom.  The second thing that, actually, I became familiar with, was also Radio Freedom.  So, at that stage with my involvement with Swapo it led up until 1996 where, at that stage, the intensification of, one would defy the South African Police in terms of disrupting Swapo marches.  They were starting to intensify and I had a friend of mine, who happen not to be here, who, politically, at that stage, was more mature and stronger than I am.  We, actually, took a decision at that stage that, I think, it was the right moment for us that we should, actually, skip the country now.

CHAIRPERSON: That must have been 1986?

LAURENS MBATHA: That is 86.

CHAIRPERSON: Because earlier on you spoke of 1995, then again you said 1996.  So, I supposed you are referring to the 80's?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes, I am referring to the 80's.	At that stage we were receiving money from the Namibian Council of Churches as students.  We, actually, went to the Namibian Council of Churches only to find out exactly can they finance us to skip the country.  The idea was, no, that they cannot do, but we must use our monthly allowances.  Unfortunately, for that end of the year, November and December you were paid, actually, a double amount of money.  That resulted, I am not sure, is it into R360,00.  Myself and my colleague then, actually, left Namibia through Gobabies.  When we came into Namibia into Botswana, that is Buitepos, we were arrested, because when we left the idea was very clear, we were going to join the ANC.
	I was arrested in Botswana together with Zamkolo.  At that time what we learnt, they wanted, actually, arms from us and we told them that we were just students.  We stayed in Buitepos in Botswana for a period of ten days until we were transferred to Gabarone.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I am going to ask to make this remark to your representative that he must remember your client is making application for amnesty and he must lead him with reference to the requirements for amnesty.

MR TSHOLANKU: Mr Chairman, I might have misdirected myself, but my understanding is that one of the requirements is to show that he is a member of a political organisation that existed in South Africa at the particular time.

CHAIRPERSON: But do you have to start that far?

MR TSHOLANKU: Excuse me, Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have to start that far?

MR TSHOLANKU: I am ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have to go to Namibia first and then go to Botswana before you can tell us that he is a member of the ANC?