Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

MR POTGIETER: I just need to ask you some detail so that we can see if we can be of some assistance in trying to help you to find out what actually happened.  Is it so that when the police removed him, removed Brian from home in June of 1978, he was living with you, he was living at your house?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Yes, that is so, no, he was staying at home in Qamla, except when he would leave, go visit friends or go to Uitenhage to his girlfriend, but then he would come back.
 He was always moving about, but he would come, but the reason for that, he was always being arrested so he didn't stay in one place because he would be detained now and again.

MR POTGIETER: His things, his property, was that at home where you were living?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Yes, yes, his belongings was there and some of his possessions were with his girlfriend in Uitenhage, but this girl returned them, she returned this somewhere here at home.

MR POTGIETER: Is it correct, it seems as if he disappeared without having taken any of his possessions at all?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: No, he didn't take anything from his possessions, he was, he had a navy blue pair of trousers on and a check jacket.  I can't remember the shirt, the colour of the shirt now.
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MR POTGIETER: Can you still remember where he was detained after the police took him in June of 1978?  Where did they take him?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: No, I can't, no I don't know.  I don't want to lie.  Because as I was saying to you, I was scared at the time, I was scared even to visit him because I was scared of, very sceptical and apprehensive about his participation in politics.  Even if I was with him, I would be very scared when he raised his fist and I would stop and then I would say stop this, because I don't want us to be followed by police and he would laugh at me.

MR POTGIETER: You said he had a girlfriend?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: (tape starts) ... a child with this girlfriend, no.

MR POTGIETER: Contact the girlfriend?  I know that he never contacted you, but was she ever contacted by him after the police took him?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Yes, this girl was a teacher then, she came to my place at the time because the police had visited the girlfriend.  I don't know how the police came to know about their relationship, this girl came, carrying Malawu's possessions in a plastic bag, that's the last I saw her, but I heard that she got married.

MR POTGIETER: This policeman Coetzee that you're talking about, was he one of the policemen that removed Brian from home when they took him on the 9th of June in 1978, was he one of them?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: No, I can't say, there were just too many of them, there were eight of them as I said.  And you know, you just got out, you were sleeping and you were woken up by silly knocks and you're scared and still sleeping, I
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can't say whether he was there or not, but all I know there was a thickly set, White man and then he said, here, we
found him at the station, we brought him and then they left and then that's when they said to Nqontla she must come with him, because she knew too much, but then they asked her to go back at the gate, so I can't really say whether he was there, I didn't even know those policemen.

MR POTGIETER: How old was Brian when he was detained?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: He was born in 1952, on the 18th of October, in Grahamstown.  I think therefor, he was about 25 or 24, thereabout.

MR POTGIETER: You mentioned that you gave a photograph of Brian to somebody else, have you still got another photograph of him?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Yes, I do have a photo at home.  The one that was given to Moodley, he was still a student, he was still in his school uniform.  He was still at Nearosa Secondary school, the other one I have is just a card, he was not in uniform, we were together, he was with another girlfriend of his, to my two cousins, I have two cousins who were in this photo, that's the one photo that we still have.

MR POTGIETER: It might be of some assistance to us, it might be that we would want to have a look at that, so I hope it is possible if we want to have a look at that that you can make that possible for us?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Let me say, do you want me to, what do you want me to, where shall I take it to?  Because it is here at Qamlana, can I take it to Gratini, where can I take it to?  Or the other thing, last year I went to Grahamstown to a funeral at the Paghela's, a cousin, my cousin Nehme, she is as old as I am and I was at her place, okay.
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 She quarrelled with her daughter then I said, Nehme, you are so happy because your kids are here with you, you can talk to them, quarrel with them and then said to that quarrel, but with me it is so different, I don't even know where my kid is and Nehme said, Nomvula forget about this child because this child was killed by the Boers, but they don't want to tell the truth.

MR POTGIETER: We really understand the pain that you must be experiencing and we appreciate you sharing it with us.  Perhaps, it could be of some assistance, when he was at Rhodes University, what was he studying, what was he going to become?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: You know, he didn't stay long at Rhodes before he was arrested for politics, it was hardly three months, three months at Rhodes then he was expelled.  I don't know what he was studying.

MR POTGIETER: I understand that you would want us to help to find out what has happened to Brian, you have indicated that you suspect that he could have been killed after his detention?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: No, I have no doubt, I have no doubt about that, I am sure he was killed, although I cannot bring any proof, but I am sure he was killed.

MR POTGIETER: Is there anything else that you would ask us to do?

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Well, Honourable Commissioner, my wish would be that to know where he remains are, then I can arrange a funeral, even if I depend on pension.  I don't work, I am old, I am diabetic, always going to the hospital, but I am prepared to bury his remains from that money.

MR POTGIETER: We have made a note of that.  I've got no
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other questions that I would want to ask you, I am going to hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, our dear mother.  When one listens to hear the story from another parent, from another mother, then you feel sure that nothing can be worse than this story, but then you are surprised when someone else comes and brings a story similar to your one.
 What is nice about all this is that you shared your pain, you've made it public and so it becomes the pain of all these people from Port Elizabeth, it is our pain, we grieve with you and we will try as much as we possibly can to meet your needs and wishes to the extent that we can.
 Thank you.

REGINA NOMVULA NOMGQOKWANA: Where did you say I should take this photo, where shall I take this photo to?

CHAIRPERSON: We do have officers here, Ms Maya will explain to you later, but she will explain to you.