Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-02-11

MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, with my learned friend's permission, certain questions were asked about certain documentation of this witness and the author of that documentation in fact was Mr du Plessis - I'm referring to the documents that I handed in yesterday, page 74 and 75 and so on as well as certain telexes, and it seems to me now in light of that question that I would have expected would have been asked of Mr du Plessis but they weren't, that there is some unclarity about this witness.
	I would like at this stage before Mr Raath testifies - in order to expedite things, to perhaps ask leave to recall Mr du Plessis purely on the issue of the documents appearing at page 74, 75, 177 and 175. And there was one other one that was referred to - oh yes, that was that document - the fax dated the 6th of October: "The recruitment of informers".

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may call him.

MR BOOYENS: Thank you Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Your full names?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: (sworn states)

MR BOOYENS: Mr du Plessis, please get Volume 1 and 2 before you and go to page 74 of Volume 1.
	Volume 1 Mr Chairman, I'm sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BOOYENS: Before you, you have a document dated the 10th of August '81, is that correct?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: Yes.

MR BOOYENS: And reference is made to Captain du Plessis, is that you?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: What is this document?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: This is the document I referred to when I testified where I said that on this day I applied for Kondile to be released, I applied to head office for this.

MR BOOYENS: The security policemen used the Afrikaans which is not often understandable to us.  Paragraph 2 reads
"He promises his whole-hearted co-operation and can be used very well"

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That is that he was recruited as an informer.

MR BOOYENS: And then 3
"For tactical reasons it is recommended that he be released on so and so"
What do you mean by tactical reasons?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: Normally if we ask head office or write to them for tactical reasons then they give the authorisation without any further questions because they know and they believe that we have very good reasons for the release.  If it would be to use him as an informer then there would have been another reason.

MR BOOYENS: With regards to paragraph, it's not the truth is it because at that reason - at that stage you realised that he had already been an informer, it could have been two weeks ago but not at this stage?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Why the false flag?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: The lady who had to send the telex from us, we did not want to tell her everything and in the second place this reached a general office at head office and nor did we want clandestine operations to be exposed there.

MR BOOYENS: Then on page 75 there's a document, is this a document coming from head office from Brigadier du Preez?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: His name appears - I think I'm making a mistake here, where did this document come from?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: From Warrant Officer Strydom in P.E. and refers to the letter of Brigadier du Preez.

MR BOOYENS: So the 7.8.10 - 18.10 Brigadier du Preez, then it says that the detainee is released from the provisions of the  legislation.

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: You will also see that it's addressed to W.P. with a copy to security head office and it deals with the security of - the inspector of detainees who has to be informed.

MR BOOYENS: The third letter, is that - the third line, does that refer to security head office?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: Yes.

MR BOOYENS: Now lets go to page - I do not think the sequence of the document is correct ...[intervention]

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: It was mainly - if I look at the contents of the letter, it was mainly ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Interpreter, I can't hear you, you're too soft.  Just say that again.

INTERPRETER: This letter was mainly or the telex was main directed at the division Western Province to the inspector of detainees - who as far as I can remember was situated here, to inform him that the detainee had been released and that he was not to visit him any longer.
	With Box 302, Pretoria, it was for their information that this had been done.

MR BOOYENS: Can you now go to page 175 in Volume 2 please? This is also a letter which came from you because you are the reference person at the top - Captain du Plessis, and the letter was date 18 September '81, is that correct?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: At the bottom it says: Activities African National Congress and then it says O.F.S., 9/126, what does that mean?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: In the first place the 9/126 is the file number or the reference number of the ANC activities in Lesotho or terrorist activities in Lesotho, O.F.S. stand for Orange Free State, that's their reference number.  Ours you will see right at the top, it's O.P. 9/126.

MR BOOYENS: Was this in reaction to an enquiry from Major Sit?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: The document which was the enquiry, we don't see that here but if you have to make a deduction - you refer here to Sizwe Kondile present time, what do you want to say? What happened here?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: All that happened here is that the Free State had a problem regarding information or questions that they to hear from head office or other organisations and they asked us whether Kondile could confirm the information they had and that's all that I'm saying in here in this letter.

MR BOOYENS: At that stage you'd already informed head office that the man had been released?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct, but not - I did not let the Free State know.

MR BOOYENS: We will get to that now shortly.  Just to get back quickly to the document on page 78, you said that you did not let the Free State know ...[intervention]

ADV GCABASHE: Just before you do that, can I just clarify one point, am I right then in understanding that Free State was having to account to head office for whatever they had to do with Sizwe Kondile?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: No, I can still remember this although I do not have the facts any longer.  They had information that if we amongst others, look at - this person received the training for the soul purpose of acting as a bodyguard to Hani and other ANC leaders so they had an enquiry these people, they received certain information regarding certain persons and they merely asked us to confirm this: "Did he have such information, if not ask him what the position was"

MR BOOYENS: You reacted to this and this is the information you sent through to the Free State?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct, and I received this from the documentation that I had at that stage.

MR BOOYENS: That's the information you got from Mr Kondile previously?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Let's just - just one thing, on page 74 - that's the request that he be released, from who to whom?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: From security branch Port Elizabeth to the commanding officer X302 Pretoria and that's security head office and only to them.

MR BOOYENS: The next document about which questions are being asked is on page 177, the Ladybrand document and more specifically the allegation that what appears in this, that Mr Kondile is detained - paragraph 2.1, he's being detained in Port Elizabeth after he was arrested entering the RSA with a motor vehicle.  This document comes from the security branch Ladybrand, is that correct?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: Yes.

MR BOOYENS: And it is a security report which was supposed to be sent where?

HERMANUS BAREND DU PLESSIS: This report was sent to ...[intervention]