Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: We had political classes during our training and it was explained about the chain of command and how the chain of command worked and I got it from those classes.  Now it was within me, it was something within me, it's something that I knew - that's shortly my answer.

MR PRIOR: So you knew that Mphahlele was a director of operations, is that what you're saying?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: And therefore you made the assumption that because you knew the line of command that this command must have emanated from him?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: According to me yes, there was no operation that could be conducted without his knowledge.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  After -  you've heard the evidence of Mr Dolo that he says after some days they had heard that one of the settlers had been taken to the hospital at Sterkspruit, do you remember he said that?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I remember.

MR PRIOR: Did you hear that as well?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I also heard.

MR PRIOR: Did you hear whether the African person was also injured in that attack?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman may I just enquire - is the Committee satisfied with the photographs and the plan and the distances - I have Mr van Vuuren who took the photographs at the pointings out, if there's nothing unclear then I will....[intervention}

CHAIRPERSON: Nothing really hangs on the distances do they?  Now we have a version which is, as I understand it, uncontested.

MR PRIOR: And it's consistent with what Mr Griesel's affidavit says - I just want to enquire from my learned friends for the applicants that they're not challenging the general thrust of Mr Griesel's affidavit, he's no longer with us and it seems to be consistent with what the applicants have said as well as the photographs.

MR LAX: Just refer us to the page Mr Prior, of Mr Griesel's affidavit?

MR PRIOR: 72 - basically in two paragraphs - paragraph 1, 2 and 3 - he sets out the facts that he was travelling towards Sterkspruit, he saw three men at the bridge, he heard shots, he felt a burning sensation in his arm and his passenger went forward, the windows were shot out and he drove to the police station.  He then describes his injuries.

MR LAX: Gentlemen, any objections to that?  You've presumably read it?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman I have read it myself, I don't see any reason you cannot - I don't have any objections Mr Chairman.

MR LAX: I couldn't see any reason why you would object to it.

CHAIRPERSON: You have no objection to that affidavit going in and that therefore there's no need to call any supplementary evidence in that regard.  Thank you and Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: No objections Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Yes I have one of the victims Mr - I've actually put it to one of the witnesses that he would be called - Mr Ndeleni who is present.  Mr Chairman I propose to call him, he will be very short evidence, just to satisfy the requirement that the victims have also been given an opportunity to address the committee.  I call then Mr Ndeleni, please.
Is Mr Ndeleni present?

MR LAX: I remember seeing him down the passage - oh here he comes.

MR PRIOR: The statement appears at page 65.

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: (sworn states)

MR PRIOR: : On the 18th November 1992 you were travelling in a bakkie being driven by Mr Griesel and you were driving from Bloemfontein towards Sterkspruit, is that correct?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: And you had another person with you, is that right?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Do you remember his name?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Petrus Tladi.

MR PRIOR: And was he at the back of the bakkie?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Was it an open bakkie or was it a bakkie with a canopy?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: It had a canopy.

MR PRIOR: And I understand from your statement that you made to the police way back in 1992 that you had left Bloemfontein at about 3 o'clock in the morning?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: I want you just to pause there and just tell us were you working for Mr Griesel at that time?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes, we were working for him.

MR PRIOR: And what line of work did Mr Griesel - was Mr Griesel?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: He was an electrician.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, I suggested to one of the witnesses that it may have been Eskom but my understanding was that you were laying cables, electrical cables in the Sterkspruit area, is that correct?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Was that for Eskom or was that a totally different contract?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: It was a different contract.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, alright.  So that was the purpose of you driving from Bloemfontein to Sterkspruit at that time.  Can you tell the Committee what occurred as you approached the Sterkspruit Mayaphuti Bridge, that is the bridge over the Orange River?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: When we approached Mayaphuti Bridge we saw four men approaching from the sides.  When we approached the bridge they pulled out their firearms and they shot at us.  I was in the front with my boss and he said to me 'sak' your head we're being shot at.  Because he was a person who usually trained, he went on driving, the rays were shattered and I could not see.

MR PRIOR: You say the windows - the glass was shattered?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Yes?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: A bullet hit him on the head at the bridge.  God was with us because we managed to drive past the bridge.  Peter was sitting at the back of the bakkie.  He said these people pointed at us and said we were lucky to escape.  My boss went on driving until...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Did you drive through to Sterkspruit?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes that's correct, Sterkspruit.

MR PRIOR: Did you report there to the police station?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: We went straight to the police station sir.

MR PRIOR: And from there to the hospital?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Is it correct you were also injured in that shooting?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes I was also injured.

MR PRIOR: And were you examined by the District Surgeon?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That's correct.

MR PRIOR: It looks like Dr Du Plessis?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: That is his name.

MR PRIOR: What injuries did you have?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: The glasses cut me on the face.

MR PRIOR: They were described as one centimetre abrasions on the top of the head.

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes even on my head.

MR PRIOR: And the opinion that was expressed, I just ask you for your comment that this was caused by shrapnel or glass?
Is that possible?  Pieces of the bullets that hit inside or wherever the vehicle or the glass that was broken, that caused your injuries?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Yes I was told so by the doctor.

MR PRIOR: Just one aspect - you said four men, you noticed four men at the bridge and you said they started shooting, can you be a bit more specific, is that your general impression or are you able to say each one of those four men fired shots?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: All these people were armed but I did not see whether they all shot.

MR PRIOR: So if you said that it's just your impression that they were all shooting, you can't say with any certainty?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: I think so sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you sure that they were all armed?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike was not on.

MR PRIOR: The question was are you sure that they were all armed?

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: They were all armed.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman that appears also from Phila Dolo's affidavit at page 7, he indicated that they were all armed.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I'm not reading his affidavit.  At page 65, paragraph 5 "ek het op geen stadium 'n geweer of pistool gesien by die swart man nie"

THOMAS NDELENI MJALI: Can you please repeat the question.