Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

MR MOKOENA: Almost the whole comrades at Block 7, we were about 30 to 35 at the time.
	So on Sunday morning, as agreed last night, we gathered again at the very same venue where we used to gather, it's on a street like this and it's a four-way stop corner under the street light, we gathered there and some of our comrades who were not with us yesterday, yesterday night were there and some of them did know, did gather information that Mr John Mokome was stabbed by the criminal gang who were terrorising the community. 	As we were now there, my fellow comrade and co-accused, Steven van Rooyen was trying to explain how we came to know about the attack on Mr Mokome.  He was trying to explain to those who were not with us yesterday, and he was further explaining our efforts to find those who were responsible on the night of the attack.
	As he was giving, following the information we received from Rebecca Silogilwe, that they might have gone to Bekkersdal where they own a shack at the X section, as now the matter was put on discussion, all the comrades who were there were giving their side, their point of view as to the information and their support as to how we will find those who were responsible for the attack.	
	After an agreement which was reached that we must find a way to go and trace that hiding place of those who were responsible for the attacks which happened at our section, it's when were discussing the route to Bekkersdal, so as there was no other way which you can get to Bekkersdal except the fact that we must find transport to can go there with the transport, I myself and my co-accused and comrade, Gustaf Morupisi agreed to go and negotiate for transport that can take us to where the deceased and other members of the gang can be.
	So we went there to the taxi rank and on arrival at the taxi rank we introduced ourselves to the drivers and the those drivers did know, we did know them and they did know us because they were both staying at the very same section where we were staying.  We tried to explain everything that had happened the night before about one of our comrades and to arm, and to some attacks which were committed by the very same criminal gang.
	They agreed to take us to Bekkersdal only if we can help them by maybe filling up the petrol tanks.  We agreed to that, myself and Mr Gustaf Morupisi.  From the
taxi rank we moved with two kombi's and after we arrived where the comrades were gathering ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry, these taxi drivers, they were not members of ...[indistinct]

MR MOKOENA: Pardon?

ADV DE JAGER: The taxi drivers which you negotiated with, were they also members of the Youth League or weren't they members?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, the other one, Mr Sagosi Selabogo was one of the Kutsaong Student Congress at the time of his schooling days, but at that time he was already a full-time taxi driver.  He finished his school and he was a full-time taxi driver.
	After arriving at the section under that street light where the comrades were gathering, we came by with two kombis from the taxi rank and now we were starting to donate for petrol.  We donated the total amount of R90,00 for those two kombis and then from there we were on our way to Bekkersdal.
	I did know Bekkersdal, but I never knew where the X sections were.  My fellow comrade, Steven van Rooyen and Hendrik van Rooyen have a relative at Bekkersdal, so Steven van Rooyen did have full knowledge of the section of the X's.  
	As we were on our route to Bekkersdal, from those comrades, those 30 to 35 total, only 17 of us went to Bekkersdal in those two kombis.

CHAIRPERSON: How many?

MR MOKOENA: 17.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR KOOPEDI: Now when you left for Bekkersdal, 17 as you were, what was your mission, what were you going to do there?  Could you explain this to the Honourable Committee?

MR MOKOENA: As concluded in the gathering, the mission to Bekkersdal was to find the perpetrators as to the information we received from the girl, Rebecca Silogilwe.  The mission was to go and find the perpetrators of the attack on Mr Mokome, to stand their responsibility and to hand them over to the police if they did agree to what they had done to Mr Mokome ...[intervention]

MR KOOPEDI: There's something I missed.  You said something about responsible, one of the things was to then hand them over to the police and what else, what did you want from them?  What did you want to do with them?

MR MOKOENA: In fact we wanted to catch the perpetrators since all their actions which they committed were reported to the police but no further actions were taken against what they were busy doing to the community.

MR KOOPEDI: Okay.  After catching them, supposing you were to catch them, what was the intention, what were you to do?  Following from what was said in the meeting, what were you to do?

MR MOKOENA: In fact it was to go and, was to catch them and to hand them over to the family of Mr Mokome and to call the police, because something like to report it was no a thing that we were not believing, that whenever you report them to the police they will be arrested.
	There was something like a friendship link between them and the police, because they were known to the police but whenever they've committed a crime they were never arrested.  I want to ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: After they committed the previous crimes you went out in search of them.

MR MOKOENA: Yes, we did.

ADV DE JAGER: You went to their houses, to their parental houses, you couldn't find them, so they've disappeared ...[inaudible]

MR MOKOENA: ...[inaudible] the township, they might have gone to Bekkersdal.

ADV DE JAGER: And so you were lucky to find this girl and she knew where they were?

MR MOKOENA: Yes.  In fact we didn't travel to Bekkersdal with the girl, she just gave us the information on the night of the attack.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes.  How far is Bekkersdal from Kutsaong?

MR MOKOENA: I can't predict the kilometres, but it's not so far away, it's not so far, it's just the next town from Carltonville to Bekkersdal.

ADV DE JAGER: But you collected R90,00 for petrol for the two kombis?

MR MOKOENA: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: R45,00 each?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, they did fill up the tanks with that R90,00, both kombis were filled up by that R90,00.

ADV DE JAGER: So was it only the next town, next to Kutsaong?

MR MOKOENA: No, just from here in Carltonville.  Bekkersdal, it's a township of Westonaria.  I don't know if ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: Of Westonaria?

MR MOKOENA: Yes, in Westonaria.

MR KOOPEDI: At the time when I interrupted you, you were still telling the Honourable Committee here that about 17 of you then got into the kombis to Bekkersdal, please go on from there.

MR MOKOENA: Yes.  As we were on our way to Bekkersdal, we get to Bekkersdal and on our arrival at Bekkersdal we started at Mandela's Squatter Camp, it's a section of shacks there, where we did know some of our comrades  were staying there.
	We have gone to Mr White Mpesheni's shack, who was acting as a Chairman of the African National Congress Youth League at Bekkersdal.  We did find Mr Mpesheni who was also surprised to see us in the early hours of the morning of the 8th of September.  We tried and we explained what brings us to Bekkersdal in the early hours of the morning, and he himself asked whether can he give us, or are we going to need anything that can help us or lead to that information given by Rebecca Silogilwe on the night of the attack.
	So now as comrade Steven van Rooyen had a full knowledge of that section of the X, we left Mr Bazuka Mpesheni with, after telling that we have the information of the X section ...[intervention]

MS GCABASHE: Can I ask you, the reason for going to Mr Mpesheni, what was it?  Why did you decide to start there?