Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-04-10

RUSSELL ALLY: We're ready to call our next witness.  Thank you.

MS SEROKE: Our next witness is Nakedi Elton Ramalepe.

DR RANDERA: Mr Ramalepe, good afternoon.  Welcome.  Can you please introduce the gentleman who is with you.

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: This is Robert Makoga.  He used to work with me in those days together with  Ngoako Ramalepe who, whom I'm here for.

DR RANDERA: I welcome him too.  Can you please stand to take the oath.  If you'll just repeat after me, I swear that the story  I'm about to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata!

THOMAS MANTHATA: Good morning.  You are here to tell us about your brother who was killed.  Is it Ngoako?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: Yes, he's my  older brother.  Could you please continue and tell us what happened.  What do you know about him?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Ngoako Ramalepe was an SRC president at Motcheche College of Education in 1985.  One day in the area of Gabane where there was a youth march  organized by the youth in Gabane.  At the end of the march during that day, the policemen appeared and they came to approach the people who were marching.  They dispersed those people that day.  During that time when the people were dispersing, that was when  Ngoako and his friend  Robert decided to go to, to the shop to get some bread.  On their way they were surprised why the, the police were confronting them and as they were just frightened, the police grabbed them.  They arrested them and took them to their, to Gabane police station but those were the Leboa police.  As I've already explained that this is the friend Robert, who was with him or the person who used to work with the late Ngoako, I'll ask the Chairperson to give Robert who's the one who has first, first hand information to at least tell something to the to the Commission about how Ngoako got killed.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did Robert give the statement to the Commission?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: Excuse me.  Could you please repeat your question, Sir?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I was asking you if Robert has given, has already given the statement to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: I don't know if he had given the  statement already.

ROBERT MAKOGA: Yes, I did give the statement, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Robert, if you have given a statement, I'm just going to ask you to take the oath but if we can just stick to the, to what we've gone, come to talk to, to-day.  All right?  If you can just stand to take the oath.  Just repeat after me, I swear that the story I'm about to tell is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

ROBERT MAKOGA: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Could you please continue Robert and say what you know about that day.

ROBERT MAKOGA: When we were at Gabane shopping centre they took  us to the police station.  When we got to the police station they ask, they didn't ask us a thing.  They started beating us up with everything.  They beat us with sjamboks, with the bags of the rifles.  They were kicking us until I lost consciousness.  When I woke up I realized that we were in the bush.  They dumped us there and I realized that Ngoako was with me there.  As Ngoako was my senior or he was older than me, I could not pick him up, I just ran away and went back to the township in Gabane location.  When I got there I explained to the students what happened to us and they decided to go to the hospital to look for Ngoako and they found that Ngoako was there at the the hospital mortuary and he was dead and Mr Ramusi came to us the next day.  He fetched me and he took me to his offices to get a statement from me.   From there I ran away and I went to Johannesburg.  That's all, Sir.

THOMAS MANTHATA: As you're explaining to us Robert, when you regained consciousness, didn't you run to the police station?

ROBERT MAKOGA: No, I did not because I was afraid of the police, because they're the ones who beat us up.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And you Nakedi.  Did you go to the police station to report?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: No, I did not, Sir.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What step did you take?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: As this was the students issue and they had their own lawyer.  We found out that they were the ones who were handling the issue and they, they had already taken it to the lawyers.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Didn't, did they come back to you and report to you what further steps did they take, besides taking the matter to their lawyers?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: What we knew as a family is that this, this was taken to court and there was a trial in, in 1988.  Several times.

THOMAS MANTHATA: During the trial who were called?  Who were accused of the murder?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: As I, I was explaining, I'm I was dizzy most of the times and I'm only the young, the young brother  to my brother.  I would like you to ask many questions to Robert.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The people who were accused, were they Leboa policemen?

ROBERT MAKOGA: Their station commander was one of them.  Mr Ramulta who was the one who gave orders to the police to fetch us from the police, from the shopping centre.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was there an inquest?

ROBERT MAKOGA: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who was accused?

ROBERT MAKOGA: It was the policemen and that was the only thing that I knew.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was that the only thing that, that you had Nakedi?

NAKEDI ELTON RAMALEPE: Yes, as a family.  The report that we got was that the policemen were accused. They  were found guilty but we didn't know whether they, they were sentenced or not and we didn't know what type of sentence they, they got, until to-day.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Robert and Ngoako,  were  you the leaders of the students at the time?

ROBERT MAKOGA: Yes, Ngoako was the President and I was the Secretary to the SRC.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What were your complaints at the time?  Was it political matters?

ROBERT MAKOGA: Firstly, we wanted to form the SRC.  That's where the problem started.  After forming the SRC, the other schools in our area also wanted to form the SRC.  That's where we were starting our dressings, other students.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What were you going to do with the SRC's?

ROBERT MAKOGA: The SRC was, was the organization to represent the students.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I believe that when you were starting the SRC's it was because you had many problems and complaints.  That's why I'm asking you that the SRC's, what problems were, were, were you addressing?

ROBERT MAKOGA: It was the complaints coming from the students and we were only the representers.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Don't you have some problems that you can give us as an example?

ROBERT MAKOGA: They used to complain about sexual harassment between lecturers and students.  Again they, we were not allowed to go outside the school gate and it was, it to, it was only for thirty days and the boys were only allowed on Wednesdays and Thursdays and we were unhappy about that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If I understood you well, this thing does not have any political mo motive, behind. it, it was just student politics.  Actually, there's no political national context.

ROBERT MAKOGA: In the college, that's where the students started standing up and then we formed a branch of the UDF after the SRC was formed.  That, that was the one which was involved in politics.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If I understood you well, when the police came to the college and started fighting with you.  Did they get any permission from the Principal?

ROBERT MAKOGA: When the police, they found that in, in the shopping centre in Gampane not at school.  They took us from the shopping centre and they took us to the police station.  To the police station.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When they found you in the shopping centre, were you not from any meeting?

ROBERT MAKOGA: There was a march in the township.