Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

JOHANNAH VILIE SKHOSANA: It was in 1986 some youth came to my house.  There were four.  They were in a red combi.  I was together with my sister's son and they entered the house, but I did not see the combi.  They greeted me.  They said, I thought maybe they were visiting us.  They stayed there for some few PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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days, but I cannot remember well.  Four of them, they went away and four of them came back again.  I was staying with my younger brother Ezekiel Skhosana.  They stayed there with Ezekiel.  I asked them what are they going to eat?  They said the person who brought us here he gave us money that we are going to KwaNdebele where the relatives, we did not have relatives in KwaNdebele, only you.  Then he said he is going to buy us food and we smoke.  You buy us cigarettes.  This brother is going to give you your money.  They left, they did not say where they were going and then we stayed there.
 After some times he use to come to see these kids and then they went to the room.  It was 12 o' clock, I was listening to a story.  He spoke to them after the story went away.  He did not greet me.  I just looked at him and then he looked at me and said do not look at me like that.  Then I passed some funny remarks.  Then he gave my, a young kid 50 cents and then he left.  Then he left.  I stayed with these young boys.  I went away because they were five between Mbokodo and the Comrades.  I went to their rooms at the back rooms.  The boys were sleeping in one room.  Some of them were sleeping in the kitchen.  I stayed with these young men.  He knocked and I opened the door and then I wanted to see this person.  I said do not hide him away from me.  They said they wanted to fight.  They were drinking.  I think it was 12 o' clock, midnight.  I said to them just close your windows with the curtain.  Then they closed the windows and they continued drinking and then I slept.
 The following morning these people came back again.  This one who is sitting next to me was ill.  I took her to the doctor and then said Ma Skhosana, they said we are going.
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We are causing the bother this evening.  I asked them do the parents know about this and they said their parents knew and this person is coming here to give us money and she give you money to give our parents R15 000,00, R15 000,00 each.  The other one went with me to the doctor and then I said my son is not going anywhere because you agreed with the parents you can go, but not my son.  I stayed with this young man.  I took Ezekiels' shoes, I opened the door because the rooms were facing each other.  I just wanted to see them when they leave.  
 At about 12 o' clock midnight four men came.  They went to the boy's room and Zoing Kamule came to me and said Sis Johanna, I want the key because I want my ID.  I said when you leave this place please just try to close the gate.  They went away.  I was just sitting there, I was sleeping, but I opened the door and then my door closed.  I did not see who closed the door.  I stood up, I looked through the window.  I saw one fat man.  He was looking into the boy's room.  There was one who use to be their friends who was next to the garage.  While I was still standing there the child was crying and then I heard the sound of guns.  Then I was screaming.  They were wearing balaclavas and they were wearing camouflages.  They shot and then I screamed and the other one said "pasop", be careful.  Then they were going back, backwards.  Then I called this one.  I said wake up, wake up, let us run away.  
 I took the child, I threw the child through the window.  I went out through the window and this one followed me through the window.  We went to our back opposite.  I knocked the door.  I said to them do not, they should not switch on the lights because I do not want them to see me.  PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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We entered the house.  The house was burning until the morning.  Then I, then she said she is going to accompany me back to my house.  We did not sleep for the whole night.  We were watching through the window from the back opposite.  I only found that there were corpses down.  They did not have arms.  
 I went out, I was crying.  Comrades from KwaNdebele passed by.  They were coming from a camp and they asked me what happened.  I said to them Ezekiel and his friends were killed and they came in and they found that these guys are sleeping now.  I said to this one should go to fetch my mother in Mamelodi to come and visit me.  Then my next door who is called Skhosana came there to my house and said it is better for us to go to the police station.  Then we took the cartridges, bullet cartridges and we put them safely.  We went with Mrs Skhosana to the police station. The four even can say anything to the police.  They started talking about it.  I heard them talking about what happened yesterday and they said to me I am coming to report the death of my child and other boys.  
 Then went there back to my house with them.  I said to them this person came with an Isuzu.  The colour of the car which I saw, I showed them, overtook us on the way.  When we arrived at home we sat down with the police.  I think that someone here was there.  They went to Victor and asked him what happened.  The KwaNdebele Comrades took him away because the police were looking for him.  I told them that the person who killed this person was wearing police uniform and they said police cannot kill a person and burn him.  Then they took the bullets.  They said these are the bullets for Ramakowe and then they said he is the person who killed 
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these children.  Who is this person, where is this person staying?  We went to Bunduinns.  They said in Bunduinns this person was booked here.  These boys use to come to him.  They only use to come here and take his food and eat.  I said to them he looked like a police because when I asked him if he was a Comrade he use not to say anything to me and they said he left the previous day and he did not come back since the boys were killed.  
 When we came back from Bunduinn I found that they have already taken them to the mortuary.  There were a lot of boys down there because there was a bad smell in the room.  I could not even pick up the bones.  The parents of these boys came to my house and we started picking up the bones.  I said to them they should not allow my mother to get inside there, the house.  We took my mother to the doctor.  I explained to the doctor and the doctor gave her an injection.  The doctor said I should also be given an injection, but if I give you this injection, if these people come, you cannot be able to run.  While we were still waiting there they found me removing the mat inside the kitchen.  The carpet inside the kitchen and I was trying to scrub the door.  They greeted me, I took them to the room.  I was crying.  They did not even cry.  They just said that what happened in the room and one of the mothers picked up a bone.  
 Magwena's mother asked my mother where is my cousin.  I said is in the room.  They never said anything to me.  They went to the Government Mortuary, they went back to Vlak and they said my boy should go to be buried in Vlak.  In Vlak they told the people that I killed these boys through the Mbokodo.  They said, they asked me who is 
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Johannes.  I said let us go to the Comrades and explain to them what happened.  They asked Johannes, is your mother Mbokodo and she said, no, my mother is an ANC, but the person who gave these statements said your mother was Mbokodo and then they said they are going to send a combi with Comrades to go to give me security.  Those were Comrades from Vlak.  They stayed there for two weeks and I said to them food is expensive.  I cannot give you food because I no longer have money.  The Comrades from Vlak left.  They went back to Mamelodi and they use to come to visit me to see the situation.
 I went to Vlak to bury him.  I carried, we took those boys to Vlak.  We wrapped the bones with the white sheet and while I was still at home a Hippo came with soldiers and they took the bones away with them.  They never told me anything.  The following morning Malabo Sana came in the morning together with the police.  They asked me you killed nine Comrades and they said stand up and I went to the police station.  I found the police station from Bronkhorstspruit, only one of them. They took me to Silverton.  I gave the statement to the police.  We came back to the office in Bronkhorstspruit.  They said to me who is going to go with me to my house because they can say they want to discipline me and burn me.  
 We buried, after having buried him and after they have buried, the parents of the other children have buried them they said to me I am Mbokodo, I killed nine children.  The Makwaza and the Kamula family were saying that.  The Balongi people never said anything to me.  The Malabula family, the children from there came to my house, started stoning my house.  After having explained to them, after they have said PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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that I am Mbokodo they stoned my house.  I went to the Ndebele Chief.  I said I am with him.  We started discussing.  They gave me a paper, a document, I sent someone to take this summons to them.  They did not got there.  It was on a Sunday.  We went back there again and they said you are going to speak in the office.  
 When we went to the office the Malabula family they did not come, only the children.  The Malabula and the Kabinde was, came to the meetings.  We started discussing about the issue.  They said Johanna if, as long as you stay in KwaNdebele you are Mbokodo.  If a person who stayed in Klipgat, the Klipgats and we know that if anyone from Malabula gets injured, I think last of last year my brother's children came to school in Vlak.  When they passed Malabula's family they were stoned because they were said that Skhosana's family killed their children because these, you ate their meat.  I kept quiet.  I said to these children do not use these streets, do not use this street.  I said to my brother just take your children out from that school, they must go back to Engangala.  
 What disturbs me is that from 1986 since these children died I stayed being Mbokodo.  What I want now, what I am happy, what makes me happy is that the parents know who killed their children.  Why I have said one family who is the Kambulewa, but the Makwaza ones who are not a family, but today they are saying that I am Mbokodo.  They do not talk to me.  When they see me on the street they, I think they see an animal.  They never gave me the money.  I never killed their children.  They did not even pay me because I was giving their children food.  They are saying that today I am a witch, I killed their children.  So now I am happy 
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because they know who killed their children.  That is why I am here to say the name that I am a Mbokodo, the name that I killed their children.  I want them to wash my name, to clear my name.  I want the person who killed these children in my house to pay all the expenses and all the furniture and the clothes which burnt in the house.