Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-28

MS SEROKE: How do you think this whole conflict could be resolved?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: I really do not know how this conflict could be resolved, because we just keep quiet, even if they provoke us.  We've got nothing to say.

MS SEROKE: Did FAWU have both men and women membership?  Who were in the majority?  Were they FAWU members or WARSA?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: The majority of members they were FAWU.  WARSA membership is composed mainly of men, but in FAWU there are fewer men, there are more women in FAWU.

MS SEROKE: How were you treated in FAWU, I mean just within FAWU itself, between men and women?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: Yes, the condition was similar for both men and women and your rights are the same between men and women within FAWU.

MS SEROKE: And there wouldn't be any discrimination amongst yourself?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: No, the rights are similar.  We all have similar rights within FAWU.  Things were equal.

MS SEROKE: Were there women who used to get positions, leadership positions within FAWU, so that they could be leaders?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: No, there are not.  Only men got leadership positions.

MS SEROKE: Were you happy about that kind of a situation?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: Yes, we were happy, because they didn't want to put women in the leadership positions.

MS SEROKE: Why didn't they want to put women in leadership positions?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: I really do not know, I am not as position to say why.

MS SEROKE: You, as a woman, how could you be happy with that discriminatory situation, as you were working under similar condition with your male counterparts;  were you not worried about this?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: It did worry me.

MS SEROKE: Were you able to speak and raise your views on these issues?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: Yes, I was in a position to, because even if you are a woman, you know your rights.  But they would listen to us when we were raising our views.

CHAIRPERSON: I would just like to ask you a few questions.  The bus, who actually owned the bus that was in this attack?  Was it the municipality or was it owned by your employers?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: It was a private bus.  It wasn't a municipal bus and it wasn't a factory bus.  It just was a private bus.  It belonged to Mr Malinga.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of you were actually injured in the bus on that day?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: If I am not mistaken I think there were more than 20 people who got injured there.

CHAIRPERSON: Did any of, did either you or any of your workers;  did they receive any kind of compensation from anybody for this attack?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: No, we didn't yet receive anything.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you people consult with any lawyer to try and get advice about what you could possibly do?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: No, we didn't have any lawyer.  It was only one person who got compensation.  It was Omar Simange, because both her legs were cut off, were amputated.

CHAIRPERSON: And who actually paid the compensation?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: I think it is the company.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything that you would like to tell us before you, we actually let go you today?

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: Yes, there is something.

CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead.

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: I would like to request the Commission to assist me with regards to my legs, because I have got metal inside my legs.  I would like to get metal get out of my legs, because I don't know what will eventually become of my legs when they're still there. That's the only thing I would like to request.

MS MKHIZE: If I may ask you, you seem scared.  Could you actually explain to us what is it that you're scared of?  We know that some other people when they are harassed or intimidate or tortured, they feel ashamed and awkward about the situation, but you should know this is not your fault.

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: That is why I am scared.  I am scared that if these people hear that I've been here at the TRC, they're going to kill me.

MS MKHIZE: Please excuse us.  Why I am asking that, is that you said these people were charged and convicted and sentenced for many years.  You think, I would imagine you've been freed from that fear, because these people were eventually sentenced and judged, and that lead me to think or feel that you should not be scared any more.

DEBORAH VUYELWA JOKAZI: I can never stop being scared, because I work with these people.  I know how these people are.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs Jokazi.  Can I say that if you feel that you may be intimidated or harassed because of the evidence that you have given us, please do make sure that you contact us, contact our briefer, so that we can actually do something about it. Because part of why we are here is so that people can actually come forward and speak freely and we would not like to feel that in fact your position is worse, because of what you have come today to say before us.
 So if you do run into any problems, please make sure that you keep in contact with us, so that we can actually take the matter up.
 Thank you for coming today and for sharing this with us.  We have heard your request about the metal in your legs and we will certainly pass that on to the Reparation Committee, so that they can actually see if there is any way in which you can be helped almost immediately on your legs.
 We know that it's not easy for you to come and share this story, but we are very glad that in fact you have taken the trouble to do so.  Thank you very much for coming.