Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-23

MR STEWART: And we have now come, so far as your affidavit is concerned to the end of the incidents at Esikoweni mentioned by you. But is it right that there are incidents mentioned by Nthena Mkhize and Romeo Mbambo and Ijoni Hlongwane which implicate you and which you now remember having been involved in, is that right?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would say if there were statements that I did not include here in which things I was involved I would maybe be in the position to remember if I am reminded about them.

MR STEWART: Let me take you first then to the incident of the attempted murder of Welcome Mtukulu. And this appears for the benefit of the committee in Mr Mkhize's application at page 97 paragraph 47. Now do you remember Mr Mkhize telling us about the attempted murder of Welcome Mtukulu?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do.

MR STEWART: Were you involved in that incident?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I was involved.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) tell us briefly what occurred?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: It was myself, Nthena, Joyful Mtetwa. I cannot remember others who were present but we were using the Ford Meteor belonging to Pipi Biyela, the white Ford Meteor. There was also Buzi Phele a Caprivian also, I cannot remember his real name. We parked near the ZP police station at Esikoweni. And we then walked on foot. As I have indicated that the commission here may please bear with me.
	There is a first hostel when you are entering Esikoweni. We walked on foot from the police station headed towards the hostel and we walked through peoples homes carrying these guns. The person whom we wanted was to go and report for work at ten at night. There is a T-junction on entering Esikoweni, he was to come from the position up, down towards the T-junction. We took cover just next to that place where the car was going to pull over at the stop street. And he was driving a blue Skyline. We hid ourselves there from around eight until about ten and we indeed saw a car approaching. And as it came, it stopped as cars usually do at a T-junction and as it stopped there was a place where we were lying and there was grass as well. The car stopped and we all started firing. We shot towards the car and it started jerking but fortunately he fled. And as it was fleeing we continued firing and we then fled on foot and went back to Mrs Mbuyazi's home.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini you know that, that operation was not successful and Mr Mtukulu survived and indeed he is here today. Do you know that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I know that. Because as time went on we learned that there was a woman in the car and that upset us. And when we reported to Mrs Mbuyazi she was excited still.

MR STEWART: Now Mr Dlamini, Mr Mkhize explained that from that incident you then proceeded to the Ntokozweni bus stop to conduct another attack. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: For the members of the committee this is in Mr Mkhize's affidavit page 99. Okay Mr Dlamini if you would tell the committee briefly what happened at that attack?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: We left the place and we went to the Ntokozweni bus stop. There were people waiting there. Waiting for buses around ten. We also shot people there, even though I cannot remember whether people died or were injured but on trying to remember these I know these things did happen.

MR STEWART: And on that occasion do you recall having been forced to retreat and to run away?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: We fled, Nthena went to Pipi Biyela's place. I went to Mrs Mbuyazi's place because we went to the forest after having shot and each one of us took different directions and Nthena went to Pipi Biyela and reported to them. ... indicated that they must not worry because the boys have now arrived.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) killed on that day in the Ntokozweni bus stop attack?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would not know. There might have been people who died and there might not have been any people who died. I do not know.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) you fire at people in that attack?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I did shoot.

MR STEWART: Now Mr Dlamini, for members of the committee I am on page 105 paragraph 62. Mr Dlamini do you remember Mr Mkhize talking about an incident which was a few days after the Nkoboza Bus stop attack when you used that same white Mitsubishi kombi and you drove into H2 section with the intention of attacking ANC members. And near the railway hostel you noticed a group of people you regarded to be ANC members and as the kombi drove slowly past this crowd there were those of you who opened fire into the crowd. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Mr Chairman I would try by all means to remember. Because we used this car in several incidents. We used the car in many places shooting people at night. That might as well be true.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) that you were involved in that, you would not deny it?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No I would not.

MR STEWART: And members of the committee over the page paragraph 64. Mr Dlamini, Mr Mkhize's affidavit speaks of an occasion in which Mr Thele arrived at Mrs Mbuyazi's house in that same white Mitsubishi kombi and there was a meeting where some discussions took place about attacking people at bus stops and gatherings in ANC areas and that your group proceeded to do that. Mr Mkhize was driving and you stayed with him in the vehicle. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Would you please repeat the question? I did not get it.

MR STEWART: Well it is another one of these occasions where there were what we might describe as random attacks but on this occasion it is said by Mr Mkhize that he was driving and you waited with them in the kombi. And members of the syndicate alighted or got out of the kombi and that there was shooting. And the people returned and then you went back to your homes. Can you remember such an incident?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do remember the incident.

MR STEWART: And do you agree with the way in which I have explained it?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR STEWART: Is there anything more of substance that you can explain about that incident?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Mr Chairman as I have indicated I do not know Esikoweni quite well. We travelled around several sections but this one particular incident I cannot remember exactly what place it was. But there were places to which we went using the same vehicle. The car was stopped, we got off. People like Romeo Hlongwane, the usual hit squad and we shot ANC people who were gathering at the time. I was indeed sitting in the car with Nthena Mkhize. The reason for my remaining in the car. Would you please remind me about this section? I have forgotten what section it is. Maybe that might help me.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Stewart are you referring to the random attacks which were aimed at influencing the bail application?

MR STEWART: That is so Miss Committee member. Thank you for that. That will assist the applicant.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I think so.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini as you have heard I am referring now to incidents which were directed at influencing the bail application where Mr Willison Nkunu has given evidence that since certain people had been arrested things have been become quiet in Esikoweni. Do you remember that?