Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Can I please ask for your patience, please.  Even this thing, this thing is a past thing, it has already happened, but I should relate the story.  She gets bad in feelings.  Just be patient with her.

MS SEROKE: So Mamma, they refused you to see your son.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I said to them - they told Mamma Jane, they said I cannot see him.  No one is allowed.  All of them who
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 MRS N BUSANG
were dead, even the parents of the girls that died together with her, they said they refused her, they said you cannot see those children. It ended there and we left.  We went to church.  That's where the occasion took place.  They brought the coffins, the four of them, into the church building and a prayer was offered.

MS SEROKE: In your statement, Mamma, you say there never was any kind of inquest, but those who were there did explain that why that house was bombed and who actually bombed the house.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: They were looking for my son.  They were bombing the house because they wanted to kill my son.

MS SEROKE: Do you know who were those looking for him?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: No, I don't know.

MS SEROKE: You say when Patrick was still a student, you were not aware that he was involved in politics?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: No, I am not aware.

MS SEROKE: You only heard afterwards, when he was arrested.  The first time when he was arrested, why was he arrested?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: The very first time, I don't really know why he was arrested.   It was the time when they were marching, going to John Vorster.

MS SEROKE: And he was discharged.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Yes.

MS SEROKE: The second occasion was when they burnt the school.  Did they say he was one of those who burnt the school?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Yes, they said so.

MS SEROKE: Now when he told you that he was leaving, did he tell you what he was going to do, where he was going to?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: He said to me he was actually escaping from the SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
11 MRS N BUSANG
country, because lately South Africa is no longer good for him.  He has joined the ANC, it is no longer safe for him to be here, he is leaving.

MS SEROKE: Now you explained to us that after you had seen from the newspaper that he was actually leading a march, did he sit down with you to explain to you why he joined those things?  What did he say when he answered you?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: No, he did not tell me on that very day.  He told me now, afterwards, when I started asking, whilst I was questioning him, whilst he explained it, he said he had joined the ANC struggle.

MS SEROKE: You say in 1987 you say there was this girl who arrived to tell you that he was still okay.  Was this girl the same Mapula or was that somebody else?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: The name of the girl was Chicken, the first girl to tell us.  Her name was Chicken.

MS SEROKE: As a person who was saying he was working for the ANC, he also needed some help from Rev Chikane who was a (indistinct). Didn't you go to the SACP to look for her?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: It was - all this happened very fast.  It happened very fast and it was a bit late.

MS SEROKE: After that, didn't the ANC help you after all this?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: After he came back, when I came back from the funeral.  After the funeral the late Oliver Thambo sent his secretary to Botswana.  After the funeral I thought I was going back home.  Only to find out there was another arrangement for me to stay there two days after the funeral.  His secretary was going to there on a Saturday.  Mr Oliver Thambo's secretary.  When he arrived he brought the amount of R6 000,00, saying that it is for sympathising with us.
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
12 MRS N BUSANG

MS SEROKE: Thank you, Mamma Busang.  I am going to hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mamma. I will give you to the other Commissioners to ask and get further clarity.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My question would be, what would the family, together with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission want to do with regard to this, you know, problem that hurt you so much?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I would like that the people who did this must come forward and confess in front of the Commission and tell all this, so that I will be able to forgive them.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you, Mamma. No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Glenda Wildschut?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mrs Busang, I am not sure whether you have a death certificate. In your statement it says that the ANC is organising a death certificate.  Do you have such a certificate in your possession?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I don't have that death certificate, because they said that they will send it to me, because it was during the time of the old government, and now they say they are going to send me the death certificate.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Maybe just a further question with regard to your son's burial. I take it that he was buried in Botswana?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Are you satisfied for him to be buried in Botswana and has the family discussed at all whether he should be buried in South Africa?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: The fact that he was buried in Botswana, I wanted to request them to bring him home, but at the same time I could see that there was just a mix-up.  They couldn't separate them. I requested that.  I am not going to
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
13 MRS N BUSANG
tell them to bring him for me. I just requested that they must just do one thing for all of them, one grave for them.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I just want to understand you clearly.  So you are saying that you would like to have at least something where all of them can be remembered here at home?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I wanted to do that thing in Botswana, that remembrance.  I am not sure if I am wrong or right.  Because we were told that you are not going to see them, because they are mixed-up.  I don't know even whether I am right or wrong.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes, but we are trying to find out is what your wish is, what is the wish of yourself and the family with regard to your son and his burial. If I can just hear from you what your personal wish is with regard to your son and his burial.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: It is very painful because I don't have money of always going to his grave. If he was here next to me, that was going to be better, because I don't know what to do now.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I am aware that to many families that is an important wish and I can understand that it is not easy for you to go to Botswana.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Yes, that's very true, it is very true.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: I think Mamma, one of the things we want to ask, we know it is very painful for you, but when your son and - is it too fast?  Are you not comfortable?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I can't hear you clearly.

YASMINE SOOKA: Better?  Can you hear me?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Yes, okay.

YASMINE SOOKA: When your son was buried in Botswana, were they
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
14 MRS N BUSANG
all buried together in one grave with all the others who were in the same bomb attack?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: He was the first one and the girls followed.

YASMINE SOOKA: Okay.  I think what we would like to know is that what would bring you some kind of comfort, in what way would you like your son to be remembered, which would make you feel happy?

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: I don't know.  I am confused, I don't know whether I have got to go and fetch him there, or if we don't do that there should be some remembrance of some sort, a tombstone.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  Sorry, carry on, Mamma.

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: Something like a moment with their names, I am not sure if it is possible.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke?