Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

MR SIBANYONI: In other words you wouldn't at any stage go and appeal for assistance to the ISU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, I would never dare do that because we did not trust them.

MR SIBANYONI: So that also from the statements of the relatives of the victims specifically to a statement by a mother to ...[indistinct] mother who says that after they heard about the death of their children, they went to the peace committee.  Was the peace committee the only institutional place where you would go for assistance?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not understand why they went to the Peace Committee because I think at that time the Peace Committee was tasked with the investigation into the police activities.  Maybe they did not have the knowledge of where to go.

MR SIBANYONI: And you also said that the youths were staying with their parents but at some times they would go to stay at the shacks when they suspect that the ISU would attack them - they went to the shacks to hide, do you remember saying that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I remember saying that.

MR SIBANYONI: Why would the Stability Unit attack the - or - yes we use the word attack - why would the Internal Stability Unit attack the youth?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was the leader in the Civic and when things happened I was supposed to be there and witness.  If I remember well, I tried to intervene and I was talking to the members of the Internal Stability Unit and they responded by saying they were looking for criminals in Mololeke.  Now for them, every young man is a criminal, they don't choose, that is why the youth ran away from the Stability Unit.

MR SIBANYONI: So do I understand you well that the ISU suspected your members as part of the criminals or as criminals.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: Let's go to the time when Blanko was killed.  I heard you saying members of the community were also present?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: A rough estimation, how many members of the community were there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I know that an estimation is not a precise thing, it might have been seventy if not eighty.

MR SIBANYONI: Now when these youth members of your Youth League were captured by the SDU do you know why members of the community didn't intervene and tried to stop that or help them out with that capture?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I know the reason why sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Can you tell us the reason?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It's because of the fear.  They feared members of the SDU so much because even on that day they were going to be harassed if ever they raised their objections.

MR SIBANYONI: You are saying it is alleged that you are the person who alleged that Oscar killed Bulelwa.  My question is did you make that allegation, did you suspect Oscar for killing Bulelwa?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No sir I explained already that Bulelwa was killed already Monday night and I knew that Oscar had just been released from prison on Thursday.

MR SIBANYONI: Were the police aware of the differences, or as you call, it the conflict between the SDU and the ANC Youth League?  Were the police aware of that conflict?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We were not co-operative with the police, the central committee of the SDU or the central committee of the Civic was supposed to intervene at that time not the police.

MR SIBANYONI: My question is - but were the police aware that you were not in good terms, that at Mololeke the SDU's and the Youth League are not in good terms, they are either fighting over control of the area or anything of that sort.  Are they aware of that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not have knowledge to that effect.

MR SIBANYONI: Oscar and the other applicants told this Committee that Bulelwa was supportive of the SDU's, or let me call them the old SDU's, that even in a meeting where discussions were held towards the commission of new SDU's, Bulelwa questioned the reason for formation of the new SDU when there was an SDU in existence.  Do you agree with that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is a lie.

MR SIBANYONI: You are saying Bulelwa was not supportive of the SDU's and also she didn't object to what the formation of the new SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further questions.  Or Mr Chairperson, if I can just put one last question?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Lekabe, you said when you were talking to the SDU's I heard you saying there was no agreement as a result.  Somebody said we should rather fight with you because you do not want to understand.  Who said that?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: On Friday I said Ntneba and Ntjebe don't know were present in that meeting.

MR SIBANYONI: But who attached that statements that it seems you do not want to work with us we'd rather fight?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Ntneba first publicly said that.

MR MALAN: Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: Mr Lekabe, who killed Bulelwa?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not know who killed Bulelwa.  I explained already that I was fetched - Bulelwa was already dead.

MR MALAN: Why did you go to Blanko's place if you didn't know who killed Bulelwa?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: On Friday I mentioned in my talk that there was an allegation to the effect that prominent leaders were going to be attacked and Bulelwa's death was the first attack.

MR MALAN: What was - you've been saying the relationship between and the SDU's was not one as they have tried to picture, but why would they have first attacked her?  Why would they not have gone for yourself or for Vips or one of the other Youth League members?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I would not have knowledge why they started with her.  There was an organisation called Train Sector then, I think the conflict started at the Train I won't know exactly.

MR MALAN: Was there more of a conflict between the Civic and the SDU than there was between the Youth League and the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, there was.

MR MALAN: Was the conflict with the Civic and not with the Youth League?  Am I hearing you correctly?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes that is correct, the conflict was between the Civic and the SDU not the Civic and the Youth League.

MR MALAN: There was also conflict between the Youth League and the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Who was the number one enemy of the SDU?  The Civic or the Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The enemy number one was the Civic and members of the Youth League were the secondary enemy.

MR MALAN: Why did you say that Bulelwa did not have a good relationship with the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Some of the things they mentioned here are incorrect.  When the issues regarding the SDU were deliberated on, women were excluded because the allegation is that Bulelwa was threatened in that meeting when she questioned the formation of the new SDU.

MR MALAN: Were you present at that meeting?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was not present.

MR MALAN: Why would you have knowledge of what happened there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was the Secretary General for the Mololeke Section.  Everything that happened came to me so that I can note them down for further references, for instance reporting to bigger meetings.

MR MALAN: Are you saying that if indeed she was told not to speak that that would have been reported to you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Why?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As members of the Civic we played a bigger part and we were supposed to keep an eye so that conflicts do not erupt in the township so everybody had a freedom of speech.