Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

KHOZA MGOJO: Just for records, Mr Chairperson, I see here in the statement, Mr Hlongwane has just told us that he was sentenced for 15 years, but in the statement here you say that you were sentenced to death.  Which is correct?

WITNESS:   Actually, I would say I was sentenced to 15 years as the - actually as the minimum sentence, because the maximum sentence was the death penalty, firing squad.  I think that what was supposed to be mentioned in my statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Mr Hlongwane, since you've been back in South Africa have you appeared before any commission of inquiry that was set up by the ANC?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR BORAINE: So you have given this story to that Commission?

WITNESS:   Yes, in the ... (inaudible) ... Commission, yes.

DR BORAINE: Fine, so that we can get those records as well, in

DR BORAINE: /case we need

DR BORAINE: 18B/3 case we need any further information?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR BORAINE: Final question.  You are now living in Port Elizabeth.  What are you doing now?

WITNESS:   I would say, firstly, when I returned back in South Africa I contacted my people in Port Elizabeth because myself I'd been in Johannesburg.  Then I discovered that my mother was necklaced to death and my home was destroyed.  Because also my statements that I have made publicly, I could not go back to PE 1991, until 1992.  I went to Ciskei and Oupa Gqoza provided me with his military guys and then I went to my home.  Then I could only see my father for 10 minutes only, because I didn't want the people to see me around the area, because people were looking for me.  And presently - and then from then I came back to KwaZulu/Natal.  Presently, I'm the person who is living in Johannesburg, because I've been living in KwaZulu/Natal, but after I had made a statement that I will appear in the Truth Commission I had some death threats from some other people that I had been working with, thinking that I will be here to reveal, you know, other things that Mr Lax already said I actually should not talk about them presently, you know.  So actually, presently I am the person who is not living in one place and then, as now, today, I have to go back to Johannesburg again underground.  So that is the life that I'm living.

CHAIRPERSON: I am giving you the last warning.  Order, please.  If that recurs whilst this witness is on the stand, I will not permit you to return.  Please.

DR BORAINE: Thank you, Chairperson.  That is all.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We have heard your story and we will take into account what you have said and we

CHAIRPERSON: /will also

CHAIRPERSON: 18B/4 will also look at the Motsanyane Commission report and when you appear before the Amnesty Committee there are some things that we will probably be wanted to reveal to that committee, in order to receive amnesty for whatever it is that you want to receive amnesty.  But, thank you very much for coming.

WITNESS:   Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: /DR BORAINE

CHAIRPERSON: 18B/5

DR BORAINE: Chairperson, the next witness, which will be the last witness before the lunch break, is Mrs Sabatha Madikizela.   Mrs Madikizela, could we please have the earphones in place.  Could we just test that out, to make sure that you can hear my voice in the earphones.  Can you?

SABATHA MADIKIZELA: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Then can I, on behalf of the Chairperson and the Commission, welcome you very warmly and thank you very much indeed for coming to the Commission.  You have had quite a long wait this morning.  I hope you're not too tired, but at last you are here and now it's your chance.  I a moment I'm going to ask Mr Dlamini to help you as you tell your story and to ask you perhaps a few questions.  Before I do so, as you know, every witness has to take the oath.  So if you'll stand, please, then we can do that.

SABATHA MADIKIZELA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  I hand over now to Mr Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: You can take your earphones off.  I greet you Mama.  You are welcome here in front of the Truth Commission and we are very sorry because your son has disappeared.  Can I just ask you briefly, do you have a husband?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: What is he doing now?

WITNESS:   He's on pension.

MR DLAMINI: Do you have children?  What are they doing?

WITNESS:   I am Mrs Madikizela.  I would born at Mount Eleven and I moved at Bizana at Madikizela family and I got five children, four boys and one girl.  In 1989 the other one was at Unitra and he died in a car accident and the other

MR DLAMINI: /one in 1983

MR DLAMINI: 18B/7 one in 1983 was at Ongoye and he was expelled from the university because he belonged to an organization and he got employed in Johannesburg.  When he came back to bury his brother who was involved in an accident he also died on his way.  The one that I'm seeking disappeared in 1987.  He arrived in 1987 in January.  I have already heard that there was a strike at Beatrix (?).  It was a faction fight between Zulus and the Xhosas and the Sothos, and he informed me that, "Mom, I'm going to leave the job, because I'm scared.  They know that I'm a Zulu and they've once arrested me and they said I should get aside because I'm now a Mofatla - a Sotho person".  He said, "I'm now going to Gauteng to get another employment".  That was in January 1987.  Towards the end of January he went to Gauteng.  I never received any letter from him during that short period of February and March.  In April I received a letter and I was told it had been kept for a long time at a supermarket, because we are in the rural areas.  And he said to me, "Mom, can you please make an application for me, because I would like to be a nurse".  His sister wanted to be a nurse as well and she had a D symbol in English and we went to fill in the forms.  When we came back, we met a boy with whom he was together.

MR DLAMINI: Are you referring to Mamingcazwe Madikizela?

WITNESS:  The boy whom I met, they were together in school.  He asked me whether do I know that he joined the ANC.  I said, "No, I don't".  Because his brother went to Gauteng to check for him to find his whereabouts, but he couldn't find him.  We stayed that way and I was asking his father, "What do you do about the disappearance of your son?", and he couldn't give me any answer.  When people came back

MR DLAMINI: /from exile,

MR DLAMINI: 18B/11 from exile, I was called by Dolomisa Idumi.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us briefly, who is Dolly?

WITNESS:   Dolly was an MP at Bisho and she was injured in a car accident.  Dolly called me, because we are related.  We call each other by ... (inaudible) ... names because we are Xhosas.  If a person is from the Hadebe clan that person is a very close relative of yours.  Dolly was Hadebe and I was also Hadebe.  And she said to me, "I wanted to tell you that Sabatha joined the ANC", and she said to me, "I know because you lost two sons your life had been affected", and she took me to Mrs Mandela.