Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-06

MR KNOETZE: 764, paragraph 1.14.1, the last paragraph.  It starts with
"Meaningful consolidation of the black states in areas and their incorporation into a South African league of nations respectively, as full members or associate members as well as the successful instilling of an own constitutional consciousness amongst the black people of South Africa will lead to greater trust and a relief of the internal conflict and tension which will be accompanied by a decrease in the internal threat."

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.  Plan Katzen in particular wanted to give the Xhosa people a Xhosa country and to give them their own constitutional dispensation.

MR KNOETZE: And then 766, paragraph 2.1
"The RSA today is waging a war of survival to ensure the survival of its peoples and the enemy is making use of the means at its disposal to bring a black majority government to power.   And during this attack, the enemy is making use not only of traditional methods of warfare, but also of co-ordinated and orchestrated actions on various areas or total war, total onslaught.  The RSA must therefore also make use of a total strategy in which it uses all the powers at its disposal to realise its own aims and so to avert the threat and the onslaught against it."
Was that the chorus of the time, the total onslaught and the total strategy?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That's correct, yes Chairperson.   It reflected the slogan or the motto of a revolutionary war.

MR KNOETZE: 768, paragraph 3.3
"The RSA's national objectives was to achieve the national goal and to ensure the survival of the RSA and all its people, and the government therefore places the following objectives in the picture:"
And then the political, economic, social and then the security objectives to which you have referred are set out there.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct, yes.  Both Plan Katzen and Plan Strelitzia promoted and strove to achieve these purposes and objectives.

MR KNOETZE: And then on the same page, 3.5.1.3
"The establishment of constitutional structures providing for full independence of the respective black peoples of the Republic, meaningful consolidation of black States and areas, and the acceptance of a socioeconomic program aimed at the effective development of these States and areas."
Now more specifically the meaning consolidation idea, is that what was also intended by Strelitzia and Katzen?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.  Katzen - in respect of the Ciskei and the Transkei, Katzen was aimed at that and it wanted to establish to Xhosa people in one Xhosa country, whilst Strelitzia wanted to establish the independence of these two countries and acknowledge their independence and wanted to join these two in a sort of a partnership with the Eastern Cape, as a power base.

MR KNOETZE: Thank you.  Page 769, paragraph 3.8.4., under the heading: Social and psychological policy
"To allow the peoples of South Africa to live in peace and harmony and to foster respect for each other's way of life and to co-operate to achieve the national objective."
The harmony area or the harmony idea, is that something which you also dealt with in Katzen and Strelitzia?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, the ideals spelt out in this paragraph were not visible on the ground.  There was certainly no harmony between the Ciskei and the Transkei and these plans were an attempt at least to cause the Xhosa people to live together as one people.

MR KNOETZE: Then page 776.  This time it falls under The Security Policy
"In consultation with the black State leaders to establish a military treaty organisation in Southern Africa."
Have you got the place?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that is correct.  Plan Katzen, there you find the recommendation that an Eastern Cape Treaty Organisation be established between the countries in this area, in this region.

MR KNOETZE: And then page 780, under Psychological, Social Policy
"The image of the resistance movements, who fostered an anti-South African image, to topple the governments of these States."
Now the resistance movements, did that also form part of Plan Katzen?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: It was an inherent part of it.  It was one of the initial phases of Katzen to establish a Xhosa resistance movement to achieve this aim.

MR KNOETZE: Then could we go to the next document, it starts on page 791.  Could you please tell us what is that?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, that is a summary  of a book written by General Fraser.  If I'm correct it was in the late '60's, maybe the beginning of the '70's.  ...(end of tape)
... he wrote this based on a revolutionary war as a modern war which was waged in Algeria, Vietnam, Indonesia and Malaysia in the century.  The book that he wrote was actually our first introduction and text book as far as revolutionary warfare was concerned, and although during the writing and the use of the book there was a period of a couple of decades that had elapsed, it was still applicable for us.

MR KNOETZE: And the ideas reflected in this book were at the time also known to you, you'd read the book at the time and you'd studied the book?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR KNOETZE: Could you refer to paragraph 4 and 12.  4 says
"It is essential to create an environment that is not conducive to a successful revolution."
12
"The life of the people under the government must be made perceptibly better than that offered by the insurgents or that in areas infested or controlled by insurgents."
Were these ideas then embodied in your plans for Strelitzia and Katzen?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that is correct, Chair.  It was almost impossible for a revolution to succeed if there was normal community life.  If there isn't a place for alternative structures, to create a base for the revolutionary structures and both then aimed to normalise the abnormal situation in the community at this stage.

MR KNOETZE: Then the next document, page 795, Chair.
	Could you perhaps just explain what this document is?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, this gives the schematic exposition of the National Security Management System, and then it draws the line from Cabinet through the State Security Council - there in the middle where you have the institutions, the Committee, the WK, the Working Committee to the Secretariat of the State Security Council.   Those that I have mentioned are on national level.  Then on the regional level there were 13 regions in the country.  Each region had its JMS and then you also had sub-JMS structures, and then also you had mini-JMS, and that was based on the local magistrates districts.

MR KNOETZE: You then at the 13 JMCs, that is where you fitted in?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that is correct.

MR KNOETZE: Then we go to page 796.  This document is dated 27 February '86.  In other words, that was compiled at a stage when you had written on the one side about Strelitzia and on the other side about Katzen.  Could you perhaps just indicate to the Committee what relevance this document has with regards to those two plans.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, this document or the content of this document was conveyed to us as Chairpersons of the respective JMCs, and as it is stated there it had to be utilised in this whole situation, in the unrest situation in the total onslaught in the country.

MR KNOETZE: Now just for detail, whose document is this, where does it come from?