Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-02

DR KLATZOW: Correct.  And that there is a dual recording system whereby one tape immediately kicks in?

VERNON NADEL: If the one ends, the other one immediately kicks in, yes.

DR KLATZOW: And that the tapes are stored in large containers with a yellow or a description written onto the container?

VERNON NADEL: Yes, there's normally, once the tape ends the tape is put in a container with a card as you said with the date and time.

DR KLATZOW: And that those tapes are rotated on about a month or six weekly cycle?

VERNON NADEL: That's correct.

DR KLATZOW: So that the tape that is finished would go to the beginning of the queue and make it's way slowly up until six weeks later or so, it would be re-recorded?

VERNON NADEL: Correct.

DR KLATZOW: And the tapes once they are finished are kept under lock and key.  I couldn't just walk in there and help myself?

VERNON NADEL: No it's kept in a glass, well at the stage was like a display cabinet which did have a lock but you're not looking at a safe type.

DR KLATZOW: No but it would be something that I would have to break the lock or damage it in some way to get in?

VERNON NADEL: Correct.

DR KLATZOW: So that anybody off the street couldn't just walk in and help himself to the tape?

VERNON NADEL: Well I don't think you'd get into the building, but no.

DR KLATZOW: Who had the keys to the cabinet?

VERNON NADEL: That was in ZUR at the time.

DR KLATZOW: Were you in charge of the ZUR keys?

VERNON NADEL: Well I was in charge of ZUR at the time.  It was never an issue that you are given the key and it's your responsibility.  The  key was on top of a cupboard normally.

DR KLATZOW: But you would know if somebody took a tape out?

VERNON NADEL: Actually no.

DR KLATZOW: Who would know?

VERNON NADEL: The person in ZUR, the radio operator.

DR KLATZOW: Gavin Dick would have known?

VERNON NADEL: Yes.

DR KLATZOW: Now the person who was on duty immediately before you, his name was Mr Du Toit?

VERNON NADEL: No, Mr Du Toit was on duty in ZUR, he handed over his shift to Gavin Dick.

DR KLATZOW: Correct.  And his shift ended at what time?

VERNON NADEL: 7 o'clock.

DR KLATZOW: And normally he would go home?  Correct?  There would be no reason for him to stay on?

VERNON NADEL: Unless he wanted to spend a few minutes talking.  He would normally do the hand-over and then leave.

DR KLATZOW: Correct.  And there would normally be some, unless he stayed for a cup of coffee or a chat or what have you, there'd be no reason for him to be there?

VERNON NADEL: No.

DR KLATZOW: Can you give me any reason why he was still there next morning and served a double shift that night?

VERNON NADEL: He did not stay that night.

DR KLATZOW: Well could you give me a reason why he told the Commission, the Margo Commission of enquiry that he booked off at 8 o'clock the next morning?

VERNON NADEL: I have no idea.

DR KLATZOW: Do you think he was lying?

VERNON NADEL: I believe he was probably confused.

DR KLATZOW: Why would he be confused about that?

VERNON NADEL: I don't know.

DR KLATZOW: So you say he's incorrect if that is what he said under oath?

VERNON NADEL: Absolutely.

DR KLATZOW: Now, what time did the tape change over occur that night?

VERNON NADEL: Sorry, can you repeat the question?

DR KLATZOW: What time did the tape change over occur that night?

VERNON NADEL: I can't recall.

DR KLATZOW: Did it occur during your shift?

VERNON NADEL: I believe it probably did yes.

DR KLATZOW: So you were there when the tape was changed over?

VERNON NADEL: I would have been in the office yes.  Not necessarily in ZUR when the tape was being changed.

DR KLATZOW: Would you have known that the tape was changed over?

VERNON NADEL: Not necessarily no.  It was a routine kind of operation.  It was never a case that you had to go and check on it and to see that it was done correctly, no.

DR KLATZOW: So at some stage the tape, during your shift was changed over?

VERNON NADEL: Possibly.

DR KLATZOW: Now, in addition to that, who else was at ZUR with you that night?

VERNON NADEL: The operations controller was with me, Pete Pelser.

DR KLATZOW: What was his name?

VERNON NADEL: Peter Pelser.

DR KLATZOW: And did he, what was his function?

VERNON NADEL: He was what we call the operations controller.  He would fill out the logs of the movements for during the day.  The night shift was basically there to prepare the documentation for the next day as well as to complete the logs for the flights that were still flying.  Domestic flights that is.

DR KLATZOW: I want to return to Pete Pelser just now.  But I want to put a proposition to you before I do so.  The function of ZUR, it is an expensive operation, employing full time staff and occupying a room and a radio set up and a considerable amount of administration.  It is not a Mickey mouse operation, if I could put it to you that way, has a function.  What is it's function?

VERNON NADEL: Well, the main function was to monitor the movement of all aircraft world-wide and that was during the time of us flying around the bulge and

DR KLATZOW: Correct.

VERNON NADEL: They needed to know where the aircraft were.

DR KLATZOW: In other words it was not, it was not an operation which was simply designed to make sure that there was a wheelchair ready at the terminal?

VERNON NADEL: Not at all.

DR KLATZOW: It was a serious operation and the pilots would communicate to you if there was anything serious which happened on board the aircraft?

VERNON NADEL: If they felt they had to yes.

DR KLATZOW: Well, if there was a major problem aboard an aircraft it is very likely that they would have communicated that to their home base?

VERNON NADEL: Not necessarily no.  Depending on the nature of the problem they would be talking to whichever air traffic control centre at the time and they would decide whether it was important enough to call us.  If I may just mention that the radio station is not a requirement or prerequisite by any means, it's a, it was a luxury that the airline had but it was never an issue that it was legally required that the aircraft had to communicate.

DR KLATZOW: Nobody has ever suggested to you that it was legal requirement but nonetheless it was in existence and it was an expensive operation and it was not there simply to monitor the number of face towels aboard the aircraft and whether or not the hostees were running out of water and that you needed, it had more serious functions in that it was to keep track of South African Airways fleet during a difficult period in their history?

VERNON NADEL: Correct.

DR KLATZOW: And it is likely and I want to put it to you that it's overwhelmingly likely that if something serious had happened aboard ZUR would at some stage have got to know about it?

VERNON NADEL: Not necessarily.  The communication may not have been there at the time.

DR KLATZOW: But sooner or later there would have been communication.  And I accept fully that they would have communicated with the nearest FIR but at some stage it is likely that they would tell you.  What is the point of ZUR being informed for instance that they had taken off uneventfully?

VERNON NADEL: Well that was the normal operation.  You would normally get a call top of climb and then during the course of the flight and then again at the descent.  That is if the aircraft could communicate weather wise as far as static.  We all know that radios are not.

DR KLATZOW: Well is it as simple as that Mr Nadel?

VERNON NADEL: I think at this particular time yes.  If I may mention and it was mentioned at the Margo Commission that the radio station had actually had a lightning strike, some time before, so communications were not up to standard at the time.

DR KLATZOW: Mr Nadel, my information is that the lightning strike and your evidence at the Margo Commission was that the lightning strike had disabled the cell call facility?