Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-12

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, I would like to help them take an oath.

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: (Duly sworn, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir.

PENDILE ALBERT JEKEQA: (Duly sworn, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir.  Mr Chairperson, I would like to lead them with questions.  We will start with you Mr Kiviti.  What is your clan name?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: I am Ndlovu.

REV XUNDU: Here Mr Ndlovu,  you have a story to tell us about your arrest or your ill-treatment in 1963.  Please tell us briefly and give us a picture of what happened on that particular day.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like order please.  Thank you very much.

REV XUNDU: Please continue sir.

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: In 1963, it was on the eighth of April, it was on the eighth of April.  We were PAC members and we got together, we went to the police station to try and visit the other members who were arrested.

REV XUNDU: Which police station is this?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: In King William's Town.

REV XUNDU: Were you from the Tshatshu Location?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, we were from the Tshatshu Location to King William's Town.  We then met Zwelitsha, people from Zwelitsha.

REV XUNDU: What time was it?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: It was at night about 12.  We arrived in King William's Town police station.  When we arrived there we demanded that people who were arrested be released.

REV XUNDU: How many were you, if you can estimate?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: We were many, I cannot estimate.

REV XUNDU: How many were these people who were arrested?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: I think when we were arrested we were about, over 70.

REV XUNDU: How many people were arrested when you got there?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: There were five people.

REV XUNDU: Were you an organiser or a Chairperson of this organisation?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: No, I was in the Task Force.  When we arrived there we heard a gunshot.  The Boers were on top of the police station.  They knew that we were coming.  We ran away, two of us were shot.  One fell down, the other one managed to run away until he got home.

REV XUNDU: Do you know the name of the man who fell down?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: It was Johnson Nongena.

REV XUNDU: Johnson Nongena?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: And Pindile Jekeqa.  I found out that Pindile was shot when we were arrested.  On the following morning at about ten the police arrived.  They were pointing us that we were there amongst the people who were in that police station.  They did not manage to get me at that time.  They got me late that day.  We were then arrested.  When we arrived there, it was two of us at that time.  It was myself and Zolie Ngandi.  I  was taken by Charles Sebe and Stoltz to the back and they put me in the boot of a car.  They opened the boot in Buffalo.  They told me to take off my shoes.  They tied me with a rope in my waist.  This rope was in that place.  They tried, they put me in the water and I wanted to go out, they would put me again.  I was then unconscious, but I kept on vomiting and I lost consciousness.

REV XUNDU: Did they ask you any questions?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: They asked me who were the people who were with me yesterday.  I denied that I was there.  I said I did not know anything.  They said to me I was going to tell  them the truth.  I denied this.  They then decided to take me to Industria.

REV XUNDU: What happened after that?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: We stayed 11 months awaiting for trial.  They would postpone our case now and then.  On the 11th month they separated us into two groups.  The other group was charged with sabotage and others were alleged of being members of an unlawful organisation.

REV XUNDU: Where were you?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: I was in the group who was charged for being a member of an unlawful organisation, because it was found that there was no evidence against me as I denied all the allegations.  I told them that I was going to give a statement to the magistrate.  We were taken to Grahamstown and those who were charged with sabotage were taken to Queenstown.  We were then sentenced to two years.

REV XUNDU: You were taken to Robben Island?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, we were then taken to Robben Island.  I stayed for two years in Robben Island.  In 1966 we were released.  After three days we got documents of the banning order for two years.  We had to ask permission to the magistrate if we wanted to visit another place.

REV XUNDU: At the time of your arrest were you working?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, I was working.

REV XUNDU: After you were released from prison were you, did you get any employment?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: We were not allowed to meet more than five people at that time.

REV XUNDU: So, your right to get employment was taken from you?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, it was taken from me.  They told me to go out and look for work for myself, not be accompanied by anyone.

REV XUNDU: But you would not get a job because the Station Commander would go there and prevent that.  When were you detained by this Government?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: In 1981 under the Sebe Government, under R252 by the Sebe regime.  They would release me, they would arrest me again after a few days.

REV XUNDU: Are you working now?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: I am not working now, but before I was working.

REV XUNDU: Mr Kiviti, what is your request to the Commission?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: I have one request to the Commission, sir.  If we can get a project in Tshatshu Location, because our children are not aware of this.  We would like to name this project.  Our children are not aware that we were arrested.  At that time I was not married.  I would like you to help us to get this project.

REV XUNDU: You would like to be helped to start a project?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, I would like to be, we would like to be helped to start a project.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Is that all sir?

MXOLISI DESMOND KIVITI: Yes, that is all.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Mr Jekeqa, what is your clan name?

MR JEQEKA: I am Nagwana, sir.

REV XUNDU: Briefly sir, please tell us your story.  Were you arrested on the same day with Mr Kiviti?

MR JEQEKA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Your story is similar?

MR JEQEKA: Yes, it is similar, it is one story.

REV XUNDU: So there is no need for you to repeat what Mr Kiviti has already said.

MR JEQEKA: I was charged with sabotage, he was charged with belonging to an unlawful organisation.  I was then sentenced to 12 years.  When we were in Robben Island he was released, so our story differs there.

REV XUNDU: As you were arrested did you get medical treatment?

MR JEQEKA: I was just taken to Grey Hospital and treated by Dr Backwards.  He took the scissors from the nurses.  He did not want the nurses to treat me properly.  He did not give me any injections.  He then sent me to prison.  That was the only treatment I got.

REV XUNDU: This doctor violated your human rights?

MR JEQEKA: Yes, because he was not treating me well.

REV XUNDU: How long did you stay in prison?

MR JEQEKA: I stayed for 12 years.

REV XUNDU: What did you do after you were released?

MR JEQEKA: I stayed at home and 1980 I got a job in Surveyor-General.  I was not banned, I was just staying at home.  I then worked for King Turning company until 1992.

REV XUNDU: In Tshatshu Location why were you politically active?  What was encouraging you to be politically active?

MR JEQEKA: We were suffering and black people were suffering.  We saw that we have to do something in order to fight for liberation.  We were united, we got together to go to the police and tell them that what they were doing to us was not right.

REV XUNDU: Sir, do you have anything you want us to forward to the President or what would you like the Commission to do for you?

MR JEQEKA: Firstly, Mr Chairperson, I have children who are at school and I am not working.