Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-21

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I think the inner circle was higher than the Regional Manager level, we as Regional Managers.  I was allowed later in 1989, but at the beginning, during the first six months of 1989, if I remember correctly, I was not allowed to enter these structures, and I had no access to intelligence structures.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So you were never introduced to the Intelligence Officer who was the channel for Mr Wouter Basson?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, I do not know this person Derek, I do not know him.

MR SIBANYONI: Sorry, while you are talking about that, your employment with Park Lane Hotel, didn't it cause some suspicion, because you were the Commander of Brixton Murder and Robbery or are you saying that your employment there was not in a way a secret to be employed by Park Lane Hotel?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Mr Sibanyoni, Mr Commissioner, before that time, I was known to Mr Guvuras, from Brixton Murder and Robbery days, I arrested him and detained him and at one stage, he went to Zambia and when he returned, he came to Brixton offices and we checked if they were looking for him in the country, and I think the Commercial Branch was looking for him and I delivered him to them.  Later on, we had a policeman, we had an amicable relationship.
	So my involvement at Park Lane was not strange in the eyes of the members of the Police, they knew that I knew Mr Guvuras.

MR SIBANYONI: But were you not supposed to be laying low in so far as the public was concerned?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: This period of laying low, was then over in 1989.  Instead of working all four under one cover at Matthysen, we terminated that period of laying low and all the members and myself, we all established our own blue plans.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr du Plessis, just quickly, are you saying Mr Burger, that within the CCB in that period, let's say early 1989, you were only known to be a member of the CCB, by Mr Verster, Gen Joubert, Mr Basson and the three people, Messrs Maree, Botha and van Zyl?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: And then of course ...

CHAIRPERSON: And maybe the higher people in the Defence Force?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Gen Joubert as you have said, and then the persons who were at the induction course, Heiner Muller and those people.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and what about the finance man?  Did you have dealings with him in your capacity at that stage, as Manager, Regional Manager?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, I dealt through the Co-ordinator.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you Mr du Plessis?

MR P DU PLESSIS: Mr Burger, just to go back to Guvuras.  Can he be described as a kind of informant?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: All right.  Let's go back to where we were with regard to the activation.  You told us that there were certain kinds of information made available to you, you worked from that, and we know that there were certain regional divisions, within Region 6, in terms of areas where the cell members worked.  Could you please briefly explain to us how it happened and why and who did it?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Chairperson, I at one stage, I thought it would be good that some of the members would concentrate on certain provinces, although as I explained to them, the Republic of South Africa was our responsibility.
	His involvement in the Cape, or Mr van Zyl's involvement in the Cape, and Mr Maree in Natal, whatever the case may be, did not mean that he would have to stay within the borders of that province.  Those were the provinces I wanted him to concentrate on, but he had - the freedom of movement of each member meant the Republic of South Africa.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So they could be deployed anywhere?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, that is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But each member had to be, had to establish his structure within a specific country?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And it is on record that Mr Slang van Zyl...

CHAIRPERSON: I think the interpretation said country, specific province?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Please repeat.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the interpretation said each member, it spoke about countries, you are speaking about provinces, so I think where it says countries ...

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Provinces.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Provinces within the RSA?  It is on record that Mr Slang van Zyl had infrastructure in the Western Cape, specifically in the Western Cape?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: He established it in the Western Cape and you were informed about that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And any of these unknown members, he recruited, did you meet any of them?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, I met Peaches.

MR P DU PLESSIS: His real identity was not revealed and the reason why he was recruited?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Emerging from van Zyl's infrastructure, specifically Peaches, you acquired certain information through that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And it was with regard to Mr Dullah Omar?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: The information about Mr Gavin Evans, if I understand you correctly, it did not come from the infrastructure, but from the Intelligence structures from the CCB specifically?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Your information with regard to the intelligence structure of the CCB, what was that?  What did it entail?  What did you have access to in terms of this structure.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: The CCB Intelligence structure?

MR P DU PLESSIS: Yes, that Wouter Basson had access to?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Mr Chairman, I assumed that the intelligence structure of the CCB in spite of its own intelligence acquiring, had access to the structures within the Defence Force as Gen Webb testified and maybe also structures within the National Intelligence and police Security Branches.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Briefly, were you satisfied that the Intelligence structure the CCB had access to, was sophisticated and reliable and it comprised the State Intelligence Service?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is absolutely so.

MR P DU PLESSIS: I think we now have to continue, this information which was conveyed to you, came to you from van Zyl and Basson, inter alia, these two so-called red plan projects which you were busy with in the CCB?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Now there were other matters, for which for certain reasons, amnesty was not applied for, such as for instance the burning of a certain printing press in Cape Town and that was information which came from van Zyl, is that correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: A minibus was also burnt?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: That formed part of the flow of information to you, from van Zyl, which was then processed further and out of which certain projects arose?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, whether from the top or from the bottom.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Right, let us deal now specifically with the matters for which you have applied for amnesty and perhaps it will be a good idea if we start with Mr Dullah Omar's case.
	I don't want you to tell us each and every little step, but just in a concise way, to sort of summarise for us, who approved the project and how it was carried out from then onwards.