Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-26

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma, take your time, and give her some water. "Blasted to pieces".  Did they ever come to me and tell me about this thing? There was nobody to talk to.  I was going to ask who did this, where.  I really didn't read that newspapers, I had the people telling me because I couldn't continue, because I was not strong enough to continue reading the newspaper. "Blasted to pieces".  He was among the young men in the Kombi. They said he must go and wait at a certain corner, where he was going to meet a certain person.  There was this White man by the name of John who kept on phoning him.  We are going to meet at such-and-such a place.  They met there.  When I heard, they said he was put inside the boot.  They went to bomb him somewhere SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
6 N LEBALLO
there in Nelspruit, I don't know the farm.  
 Now my request is only ... (END OF TAPE - SIDE B).
... this person was using, this White men, it was De Kock. I just ask them to take me there and show me where his pieces were cut up.  There is nothing else that I am asking in this Commission.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much, Mrs Leballo.  I don't think there is anything that any of us can actually say to comfort you and we sympathise very much with you for the long terrible months that you have had, not knowing what happened. If I could just ask possibly for some clarity, some clarification, which you might be able to give us. In this terrible time between 1992 and October 1994, when this article came out about De Kock, and you were trying to find out, did anybody give you any more information?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Nobody came to me.

MR LEWIN: Did Mrs Winnie Mandela, who was, for whom your son was driving, was she able to find out anything more? No?

MR LEWIN: She couldn't, she couldn't find out anything.

MR LEWIN: Do you think yourself now that there was a connection between the Kombi crash in 1992 and the De Kock Kombi?  Were they the same?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Can you repeat again, please.

MR LEWIN: In 1992 you heard that there had been the crash of the Kombi, going to Nelspruit.  Then you discovered that it wasn't your son who was in that Kombi.  Is there a connection between that Kombi and the Kombi mentioned in the De Kock story?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Yes, I think there is a connection.

MR LEWIN: So it would be the same vehicle?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: The Kombi and my son, of course when I hear
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 N LEBALLO
now, it was - those are his friends, they were together, but I don't know how he was separated that he must go and stand at a certain corner and wait there, with the people who were in that Kombi.  As we heard that it was a Kombi that was stolen. I don't know how does this happen.  That is why, even when I saw this Kombi, I couldn't think it was the Kombi who would be there.  It was just there. I never knew that he had any friend who was owning a Kombi.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  Could I ask another question. You mentioned right at the beginning that at the time your son left in 1987/1988, that you yourself were in detention, under section 29? Is that correct?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Yes, it is correct, I was detained for about a year.

MR LEWIN: Was there any reason given for your detention?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: I was detained with my eldest son.  He was not even staying at home at the time, he was around all over the place. Until he decided to leave the country.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  Can you - I know this must be very difficult, but you have obviously thought about it so much. Can you think of any reason why someone would want to execute your son in this way?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: I don't know. I don't know, because just before, that was in 1991, the first ones were already released from jail.  The police came. That was early in the morning, I can't remember the year, but I remember it was 1990.  Because Tisetso came back in 1991.  They said they want to know if Tisetso is already back. I told them how can you ask me that, because you are the people who must know before I know; how can you ask me that.   That's what I think it was a follow-up, even when they came back.
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 N LEBALLO

MR LEWIN: Thank you. I will let the other Commissioners ask some other questions.  Thank you very much.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you, Mamma.   I am going to ask you two questions.  From the time you say you were told to go to Shell House, because there are children who had been involved in a bomb explosion, is there anything that they did to help you when you found out that is not your son.

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Yes, they helped me, yes, they did help me.

MS MKHIZE: Did you tell them that you discovered that you were going to bury a wrong person?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Yes, i went back to them and I asked them if I can give them back the money that they were helping me with, because my son is not dead.  They said to me no problem, you don't have to bring it back.

MS MKHIZE: If am talking about this, I am thinking, did they make a follow-up of going on searching, searching for him?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: After that, even when I went to the Shell House I wasn't get any assistance.  I went to the welfare offices. I wasn't getting any help.

MS MKHIZE: How do you see this thing that a person who was their chauffeur, and he just disappears in such a manner and they are not even interested in helping you. How do you see this matter?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: It was such a surprise.  Because they sent me to a certain employer, I can't remember whether it was Zambesi House(?) and the lawyers sent me to the Shell House. I was referred to Mrs - I can't remember her name.  I think it was Mrs Mashlajee. It was clear that there is nothing that is going to help me there. I was alone with my, at my own expense, no one was helping me.
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 N LEBALLO

MS MKHIZE: Maybe you can tell us briefly your opinion, what happened between you and them that made them to dump you, whereas they tried to help you?

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: I think that they take it as if as if the boers are saying, they went there to rob the bank.   They concentrated on that, that they think that they thought, they talked that they were not going there locally. That is not true.  There are no people that can just go and rob the bank three o'clock in the morning.  Even if the people are going to rob the bank at that time,  why don't you arrest them, why do you have to bomb them.  Because if the people are breaking the law they must be arrested instead of being killed.

MS MKHIZE: In your statement, Mamma, you said you will find out from the Sowetan on the 7th of December, that your son was one of the victims of De Kock.  Did you, was there any follow-up as you are now interested now that he wasn't there in that (indistinct).  Did you go back to Shell House and ask the solicitor.

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: I went to the Sowetan and asked for the reporter who reported that article, and asked him about that how come that he has my picture on the Sowetan, without coming to me first.  He was not there. I can't even remember his name.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you, Mamma.

CHAIRPERSON: Glenda?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mrs Leballo, can I ask you, you began to tell us that while you were searching for your son, during that time you were sleeping badly and you had dreams and so on. Has that gone away, how are you feeling now, what is your health like now?
SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 N LEBALLO

NOBELUNGU LEBALLO: Even today I am still looking for him, I am still seeing people whom I think they look like him. That is why I said I will come to the Commission to talk, maybe I will be better afterwards. Even now I am still bleeding inside.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Have you ever had an opportunity to talk to anybody about this, maybe somebody in your community, somebody in your family, have you been able to have a place where you can talk about your heart is bleeding?