Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-13

CHAIRPERSON: Everybody, can we settle down?  It's half past eight and I really want to start at half past eight as it - eight thirty strictly today.
 We have a very long programme and some very important role-players talking about their submissions today.  Essentially dealing with the - again SANLAM which spreads across many areas of our economy, The Mining Sector and of course the Trade Union Movement.  We also have some submissions dealing with the agricultural sector today.  
 Let me just say that - and it's always difficult at this time of the morning when we have so few people talking, but it's on record.  We in the Commission have a few regrets about this hearing.  Part of that of course is that one always feel - we always feel that we're pressurising people as they make their submissions and not enough groupings have been allowed to come forward and allowed to be able to speak to their submissions.
 This morning, for example, I heard on the news that the Exford workers marched in Port Elizabeth and they have made -  they made quite a substantial submission dealing with the issues of that time and relating to their particular problems.  We hope that COSATU will be able to deal with the sentiments of what's coming out within their submission.
 Let me also say so that it's on record.  When we consulted with the trade union movement, there was a possibility that each trade unions movements, that each federation, each grouping affiliated to the federation, would be allowed to make a submission.
 In fact the agreement went the other way that COSATU, through their discussions, decided that they would only make one submission, but that we would have to allow them more time to speak and I think it's only fair given the submissions that we've had from the business sector over the last three days;  a number of submissions - that COSATU is allowed that time this morning.
 So with that I want to welcome the representative from SANLAM.  Sir, would you please introduce yourself for the record.

DESMOND SMITH: Chairperson, my name is Desmond Smith.  I'm managing director of SANLAM.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Smith, a warm welcome to you.
 Again, can I say, we have your submission and it's quite a lengthy submission.  We would like you please to speak to the important points in your submission.  We had some discussion earlier on and you told me that you will speak within in the 15 minutes allocated and then there will be questions.
 Can I just introduce the panel.  On my left is Dr Russel Ally who is a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee, based here in Johannesburg.
 On my right is the deputy chairperson of the Commission, a Commissioner and a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee.
 Next to him, is the Rev Bongani Finca, who is a Commissioner and member of the Human Rights Violations Committee and is in charge of the East London office.
 Next to Bongani is Ms Hlengiwe Mkhize, who is the Chairperson of the Reparation and Rehabilitations Committee and a Commissioner and is also based here in Johannesburg.
 On that table I see Prof Simkins has removed himself, but he's welcome to sit on the table if he wishes.  Two of our researchers, Mr Simon Segal and Ms Tracy Steyn.
 Thank you, Mr Smith, the floor is yours.  Before you do that, can you please stand to take the oath or affirmation.  Russel, will you assist?

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Smith, the oath or the affirmation.

DESMOND SMITH: The oath.

RUSSELL ALLY: The oath.

DESMOND SMITH: (Duly sworn in, states).

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.
SANLAM:  PRESENTATION