Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-21

MR P DU PLESSIS: Perhaps just on this point, we should clarify and try and contextualise things chronologically.  During May, there was the incident regarding Dr Webster, he had been killed, he had been murdered?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And then there was the incident of White's monitoring, that took place thereafter in June, and Mr Botha and Mr Barnard were compromised there?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And you are also aware of the enquiries which were directed in relation to the death of Dr Webster, directed to the CCB immediately after the incident, I think it was on the 1st of May 1989?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And also that there was speculation regarding Mr Barnard's involvement?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, if I am correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So in that context, Mr Barnard's name would also have been mentioned and then later, he was found along with Mr Botha, in the White monitoring case?  Is it possible that in that sense, there had been discussions regarding the desirability of contact with Mr Barnard?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, no, I cannot recall that.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Well, whilst we are still on that point, the question will obviously be asked, the whole situation revolving around Webster's death, was the CCB to your knowledge and specifically Region 6 which you were the Regional Manager, were they in any way involved in that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: All right.  Then, on this point, I could also place it on record, that it is so that the CCB was involved in the monitoring of Mr Lubowski who, if I remember, was killed on the 12th of September 1989 in Windhoek in the then South-West Africa?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You have already confirmed that his monitoring was a formal order received from higher authority, from Mr Verster?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And that it was carried out by Mr van Zyl, on your instructions?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And then the same question relating to Webster, was Region 6, to your knowledge, in any way involved in the death of Mr Lubowski?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, not at all.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Are you denying any personal involvement in his death?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, I have and I have done it before as well.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You are on record over the years, as having maintained that position?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: All right, that then concludes the four aspects, regarding Mr Dullah Omar, Gavin Evans, the bomb in Athlone and the "Project 'Apie'" in respect of which you are applying for amnesty.  That concludes the physical carrying out of those projects.
	Before I turn to your motives in this regard, I just want to deal briefly with the running down of the CCB and the dissolution.  After Mr F.W. de Klerk became the Head of State, certain incidents took place around the arrest of Mr van Zyl, Botha, Barnard, etc, did the activities of the CCB and specifically Region 6, I think we should limit ourselves to Region 6 and its activities, did that continue after September of 1989, after the Athlone bomb?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.  As far as I can recall, Mr Verster said specifically that all CCB projects had to be rationalised, and the internal Region's activities should be halted totally, operational projects should be halted.
	This was at the time of the appointment of F.W. de Klerk as the State President and that was our order.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did Region 6 thereafter carry on operationally?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.  Not as Region 6, I have no knowledge of any members under my command got instructions from myself or from higher authority to proceed with other actions.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So obviously you would not be able to testify about any of the other Regions and all the external projects outside of the country, as far as the CCB was concerned?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.  Subsequent to this order that all operational projects should be halted, you were however still in the employ of the CCB, you were still paid by the State?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Can you give us an idea until when that situation continued, until the final disbanding of the CCB?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It was the beginning of 1991, I think March 1991.

MR P DU PLESSIS: So what happened during the course of 1990, which includes the activities of the Harms Commission, you were still in the service of the CCB?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Until an agreement was reached in terms of which you resigned?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.  I was actually retrenched.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Retrenched?  You took a package, a so-called package, you were retrenched and your package included certain benefits which were negotiated with the State?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Then just also for record purposes, your activities thereafter, were you still attached to any other State Security bodies, after that point?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes Chairperson, I got an appointment at the Directorate Covert Intelligence which was a subsidiary of Military Intelligence.

MR P DU PLESSIS: When did you finally leave the employ of the State?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I cannot remember, the end of 1993.  The end of 1993.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And subsequent to that, just to complete the picture, you re-entered private employment and you became a farmer?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, if I may just qualify perhaps my previous statement, the dates are a bit vague in my mind, but after I ended my service with DCI, it could have been the end of 1992, it might have been the end of 1992,  I am not certain of the dates, in 1993, I uncoupled myself completely.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And thereafter you went into private business?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And currently you are a sugar farmer in Natal, is that correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: I noticed that there was an article in Friday's edition of the Mail & Guardian in which the apartheid bastards and their whereabouts and their activities are addressed, and a photograph of yourself on the front page, in a wig, I am sure you saw that?  It said also that you are currently a successful sugar farmer who has now been given two awards for successful sugar farming?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Cheap sugar at Illovo.  No, that is true.  I don't have a sugar farm as such, but I have premises, 60 plus hectares of sugar cane under irrigation, yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.   I won't ask you whether the sugar has now sweetened you, let us leave the matter there and let us not be flippant.
	Now I want to turn to the issue of motivation, the motives behind your actions as described here, and specifically the actions for which you are applying for amnesty.
	Maybe just to place the matter in its proper perspective, it is not a secret that you are Afrikaans speaking, and that is the culture in which you grew up?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What were your ideas, your political sentiments, and your ideological views at the time when you joined the CCB in 1988 and where did that come from, where did that arise from, if you can just give us a bit of background?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Chairperson, I was raised as an Afrikaner boy on the land and in the Afrikaner culture, and Afrikaner ideologies of the Afrikaner people, the Christian national ideologies and way of thinking, we believed in a system of separate development, or apartheid as it became known.
	We believed that you have to retain control of your country, your own land, your culture, your ways, methods of education and politically speaking, you were of a nationalist orientation.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Are you talking about the National Party here?