Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tzaneen — 1997-04-10

WILLIAM MATIDZA: It was during those previous times.  I used to go about with these freedom fighters or the people fighting for freedom.  As I was doing that, in that process, I, he was in trouble, because most of the White race of people and some of our fellow people, Blacks, were not interested in what I was doing.
 It so happened that I was once involved, I was once a victim of arrest.  As I was arrested they took me the court.  I was really troubled, because in amongst the people, when I was released I was, again I was referred to a cell when I was just alone.  They gave me food just as I was there.  It was just full of dirt, a smelling room.  I discovered that I couldn't eat the food.  
 The following morning just at the dining hall for porridge and breakfast, I will, I was able to eat better there.  As I was there, as I was in the cell I suffered a great deal.  So much that, you know, they used to choke me and I fainted.  As they were really choking me or electrifying me they were interrogating me.  They wanted me to say exactly if at all I was one of the freedom fighters, the so-called terrorists.  I responded as follows.  I am working hand in hand with them.  Well I've not been to those so-called terrorists but I'm working hand in hand with them.  They asked me if I could tell them, if I tell them who the people are, the ones who used to visit but I told them they were the church people and sometimes they were just ordinary people who come for meetings for freedom  fighters.  That is where I really incited them and they hated me greatly.  
 However, I sat there up to the time when they released me on, on sixty five rand bail.  That's the bail money.  Well, it happened again.  Two men came.  One of them was Titi Ramabrana and the other one was Jacobus Ramabrana.  They were two.  They had guns.  It was late evening.  I was already asleep after I had dinner.  They asked from my children, my children said, the old man is asleep.  That is when, you know, they went straight to my room and my son followed them.  As they approached, they knocked, they knocked several times on the door and I responded as follows, who are you ?  And they said, police ?  I said, how ?  What kind of a police ?  Why do you come late in the evening ?  Are they cleaning us here ?  One, they said, just open, police.  Well, I opened happily.   I was not feeling any guilty.  I just opened slowly, nicely and then I went back to may  bed.  Oh well, as an innocent person I wasn't frightened at all.  Just then they stood beside my bed.  As they were just doing like that, my son was just there.  They asked him who he was and then he said, I belong here.  They wrote few things and I just don't know what they were doing and they just commanded and said no, he's going to the court to-morrow.  I said, okay, fine.  That is when they left there with those guns they were holding.  
 I went to the court.  Well, I was on the witness box.  They told me that I was there because there are these so-called terrorists and I said well I don't know, I cannot even point a finger at where they are.  I'm just a member of the so-called freedom fighters organisation but I don't know who the terrorists are.  Then I was referred to the cells.  When I was taken to the cells I was beaten severely.  They were shocking me with electric...  Now there was one thing that really hit me on the back.  I don't know that kind of object.  Even my bone here at the back on my left hand-side is still broken and swollen, sort of.  I fell down.  I was just groaning, you know you can see I'm an elderly person.  I even cried.  As I'm saying here now, my eyes are really about to shed some tears.  
 However they took me to the cells, right at the cells those police were really assaulting me.  I don't know how to explain this.  They were just insisting on finding out who and where were those terrorists.  I told them the same thing, that I didn't know them.  I only told them that the people who came to me are some of the people I usually attend meetings with them at the councils.  I'm still with them.  However,  fighting for the freedom, I'm still fighting for the freedom.  Undoubtedly so.  That's when they said, they were to, say  the following morning I'll be meeting a White man who seemingly was in charge of the police station.  As I was in the witness box he said to me, please leave the old man, leave, go for home.  Then I left.  Well I was so guilty, because I was not given a chance to say whatever they were worried of.  
 I left, I left for home.  They sent a van, a big van.  You know they just took all the people who were at home.  They were about seven women and I was the eighth person, including those who were visiting.  Just there I was referred to the cells and I was asked to tell them exactly where the terrorists were and I told them, I didn't know anything and they said, please be careful.  You must really realise that you are you said something bad about the police.  Since those people were very innocent, they just agreed and they got a fine of sixty five rand.  Just then, when we had been fined, I was the only one who was left, they ran home and fetched the money.  We don't even know where this money was taken to.  No one knows exactly what happened with reference to this money.  No, but they just signed.  The people who were at the local police station didn't want to sign.  We stayed there for some time, until some few police guys came.  I know of one who, that was Jacobus Ramabrana.  They were just assaulting us, beating us again and just shouting abusive words.  We didn't want to be evicted.  Now they arrested me alone.  He just wanted to finish me off with a gun.  He shot, using his gun and then it fell on, on my leg and he said, no  I was just releasing my gun.  Please be careful.  I just kept quiet.  
 So we  left.  I was just going there to explain the same severe torture with, you know,  the materials that they were using, shocking materials and I just fell again and I was unconscious.  During the course of the matter, I had to come back, so I was told that my property was going to be taken.  My fields and again I had fertilised my fields and somebody was given that field of mine.  Even my wife's field was taken.  It was given to somebody else.  During that time we were just left with a very little orchard at home.  That is the one we only depended on.  That is when it was discovered that they were saying I had to leave, I had to be evicted.  Since I was born there, I said, okay fine, I've got, I've got twelve huts and I also have my trees.  If ever I realise that you are going to build some twelve huts in whichever place you are taking me,  that's fine.  However, I need compensation about my trees.  That is where they failed to really evict me.  
 So, again I suffered some difficulties, because I was said to be or alleged to be the one who organising these VIP's.  It was a terrible thing altogether.  I was tortured.  However, there was this VIP and the National Party.  Then I was organizing for the VIP, because it was a Progressive Party so that they should get some freedom.  Some kind of freedom.  Just there it was a difficult thing for them, even up to now, the current moment.  They, just because it's a new democratic government they look at me as a very good person.  I've, I know my enemies look at me indifferently.  They wish me dead.  That's over.

MS SEROKE: According to your statement here Ndade Matidza you were born in 1903.  Am I correct to assume that you ... (interrupted) ?

WILLIAM MATIDZA: I was born in 1899, 1895.

MS SEROKE: 1895 ?

WILLIAM MATIDZA: 18, in 1895.  I was born in 1895.

MS SEROKE: So, you probably are -.  How old are you now ?  About ... (interrupted) 100 and  a 102 ?

WILLIAM MATIDZA: Yes, 102.

MS SEROKE: In 1984 when you went through all these problems you were about, you were in your 90's.