Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-16

ADV PRIOR: Is it not close to the truth that she was arrested simply for being at the house where Ramlakan and others were arrested, that she had been assisted by Ramlakan in her studies and that he had also provided her with accommodation because of problems she had with her in-laws or family?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: She was more than simply that.  She lived there, that is correct.

ADV PRIOR: And that she may possibly have done secretarial functions, but she certainly wasn't a trained combatant.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: She was Mr Chairperson.  She along with another person by the name of Ricky Naidoo fulfilled a number of functions in the command of Ramlakan and the other people from the place where they worked.

ADV PRIOR: You indicated in your evidence that one Braso had made phone call to the Ramlakan home just before the arrest?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Is it not, well, I have been requested to put this to you, that it wasn't Braso, but one Ralph Lawrence who had made that call, and he had spoken to Sibusiso Sithle Mbongwa also known as George Fukudi and that that conversation was recorded on tape?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, the conversation was recorded by us with monitoring.

ADV PRIOR: But with Ralph Lawrence made the call?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Negative, it was Braso, Raymond Lala.  He made a number of calls to that address, his voice was familiar to us.  His voice was that of an Indian.

ADV PRIOR: There is just one other aspect, it would appear from bundle 3 that there was a report  that Portia Ndwandwe's home was burgled on the very day or the evening of the day she was kidnapped out of Swaziland.  There was an allegation that an amount of about R20 000 or R25 000 was missing.
	Do you know anything about that?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: I am aware of the report which appeared in the newspaper.

ADV PRIOR: Well, were any of your operatives in the area, you had abducted her.  Was any of the instructions to go and see what could be found at the home?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Negative Mr Chairperson, there was no order, I don't think that they were responsible.

ADV PRIOR: Do you agree that it certainly raises a suspicion?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes Mr Chairperson, but the circumstances could have been manipulated by someone within the ANC in order to steal that money.

ADV PRIOR: Du Preez and Wasserman?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: You say couldn't get through the border post  because of the lateness of the hour?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: Do you know where they slept before they came through the border post the next day?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Negative Mr Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Did they know where Ndwandwe lived in Manzini?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: They knew.

ADV PRIOR: Just finally on this aspect, your Intelligence network, was there any information regarding the burglary or the breaking in?  I mean your Intelligence network was in place in Swaziland, was there any information forthcoming from that source?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: The only report which there was about the burglary appeared coincidentally in a Swazi newspaper and through the South African media.  That was the only reference made to that incident.

MR MALAN: I think Mr Botha, that the question is whether you from your information network, heard anything about the burglary?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: I understood the question correctly.  The only knowledge which we had regarding this burglary, was not by means of our information network, but by means of the media.

ADV PRIOR: I don't want to belabour this too much, but on what your answer is, no one within the ANC knew that she had been abducted or kidnapped on that day, they only came to realise that later.  They would have no reason to have exploited that fact, not having known about it at that specific time?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson, we were not even aware of an amount of R25 000.

ADV PRIOR: Let's forget the amount, just the fact of the burglary at that time, the day that she was kidnapped by your unit, the ANC would not have known about it and therefore I am suggesting to you that it seems improbable that they would have exploited that fact.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No comment Mr Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: I want to move on to Pumeso Nxiweni.  You have had sight of Exhibit H?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: That was the sort of consultation notes of the Investigative Unit of the Amnesty Committee.  I don't intend going through the ...(indistinct) verba  of everything here, but if you look at the fourth page, where under the title possible assistants Sithle Mbongwa, is there anything there that you wish to disagree with?  I think you may have answered that a short while ago.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

ADV PRIOR: Do you wish to add anything, that is regarding Ndwandwe being at Ramlakan's house and the reason why she was there?  Do you want to add anything to what you have already answered?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: All that I confirm here is that the facts are not correct, that she was at Ramlakan's house.

ADV PRIOR: If you can go to the next page, that is the fifth page, Naya Ngema, do you wish to comment on the notes there or the information there?  Let me maybe ask you correctly, Naya Ngema who survived, he was the member that went to Swazi, he never turned up in the kwaMashu 3 at the meeting that was arranged with your informers?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Can you dispute or do you deny that it was his unit that carried out six of the bombings that you attributed to Nxiweni's unit, the Allan Taylor unit?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Sorry, do you challenge that?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No, I say that this unit was under the command of Nxiweni as Commander.

ADV PRIOR: He will give evidence and say that that wasn't the case.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That may be his evidence, but that was our knowledge.

ADV PRIOR: Further down the page, he says that his unit was responsible for the six attacks, Pinetown post office, Glenashley shopping centre, Westville post office and a blast in kwaMashu, the Bree railway station and the Red Hill post office.  In other words, that was the swimmers' unit?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Is that correct, are you saying, did you know about the swimmers' unit?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: They were all known to us as the kwaMashu unit.

ADV PRIOR: And you say Nxiweni was part of the Allan Taylor unit?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: He had a unit with Allan Taylor which was known as the Allan Taylor unit.

ADV PRIOR: Were those two distinct units or did they fall under the umbrella of the kwaMashu unit, I don't quite understand?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Perhaps just to explain.  If a person was a Commander in a determined area such as Durban, he could have up to five units under his command, and in this case Nxiweni was identified to us as Commander of a number of units.

ADV PRIOR: Is it correct that at the time of his kidnapping, if I may call it that, that is Nxiweni, that he was busy preparing for the year end party at the residence?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No, I am not aware of what he was busy with at the Allan Taylor.

ADV PRIOR: Your evidence was that weapons and ammunition were found at the Allan Taylor residence after Nxiweni had been detained, is that correct?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: And they had been, well, it would not have been difficult to link him with those weapons and explosives, is that correct?