Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-23

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, sometimes an Inkatha member, whoever it was, who was associated with the National Party, if there was a way for us to get weapons from an Inkatha member who was associated with the NP, we would get those weapons.

ADV SANDI: How?   To use force against that Inkatha person, or to persuade him, how would you do that, how would you get weapons from Inkatha people to use force?   No other questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gushu, your advocate has indicated that you want to say certain things.   I'm going to allow you to do so before I ask you questions.   What do you want to tell us?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I would like to let this Committee know that, as I have made these applications for amnesty, everything I have applied for amnesty, I did those things as a member of the ANC, I was obeying orders, I was obeying orders of the organisation, this is why we are able to be here today.  The ANC has got a lot of supporters today, everything can be done properly now, meaning most of the missions were accomplished.   As a person who was a member of the organisation, I was obliged by all means to further the objectives of the organisation.
	Therefore, I would like the chairperson to know that even in Cape Town, as I was in the struggle, I was shot at and even somewhere else in Breyten(?), I was also shot at, and even in Cape Town.  After I was shot at, I was arrested and my brother, Mphimelo Lokwaka, passed away.   When I was released from jail, I didn't have a house, the police took my house because they found petrol bombs and some of the things in the house.   Therefore, my house was destroyed.
	I want to tell the Chairperson that he must also try and make some means to compensate me, because I also suffered a loss and I got injured.  
	I would end there.   
	And the fact that I apologise to the victims and the people who lost their children because of my actions.   All what I did, I was doing that because of the situation that was prevailing at the time because of the apartheid laws.  Now that we've got this Democratic Government, I'll never do such things again.
	Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gushu, I appreciate what you say, but there are certain issues that concern me and I want to raise it with you.   Many atrocities have been committed in this country because of apartheid, and as you say that we've crossed the breach and we know, or we're not supposed to have apartheid with us anymore.   The purpose of this type of hearing is to reconcile and create this one nation that we talk about, both black and white.   I detect a bit of bitterness in you.   Are you able to cross that bitterness and live in this one nation?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, I'll try as much as I can to live with people the right way.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, I want to refer you to one or two examples.   There are a few people in this country who prefer to be referred to as boers, but not all, yet you refer to certain people as boers.   Are you able to rectify that, or would you carry that bitterness with you?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I would like to apologise about that.   I didn't know how to address this, but if this Commission didn't like that, I would like to apologise.

CHAIRPERSON: One must also remember that while the apartheid regime was being run by a particular group of people, they were well assisted by other people, and that created a division even within our own black people.   It seems to us that those divisions still play itself out today, in particular because of the problems we experienced in these areas in 1992.   Are we able to cross that kind of bridge and try to establish this one nation?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I'm prepared to try, I'm prepared to try that, I would like us to be one nation.

CHAIRPERSON: Well isn't it a question of not just trying, but making a concerted effort by all?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I want to say that I'm going to do that, because now the people have rights, even myself, I do have a right, I do have a right, I don't think I'll ever violate people's rights again, because there's no-one who's doing that now, therefore I would like to be one of those people who are looking forward to united South Africa where there'll be love, love and kindness among all the South Africans.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, the next of kin, or the victims of your actions, have you been able, to date, to speak to them?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: If the chairperson would grant me the opportunity to do so, I'll be very happy.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you been able to do so up to today?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: No, Chairperson, my problem is I'm still in prison.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you willing to meet them to make your peace with them and they with you?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: I am very much prepared, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You say you were born in the Eastern Cape?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: When last have you been there?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: It was in 1990, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And when you get out of jail, whenever that may be, do you intend to go back there?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Yes, I'm prepared to go home, Chairperson, but it's not a good thing for me to go home without money.   I do have a proof that this Government of National Unity will try to find me a job, so that even if I go home, I'll be able to do something for my children and do all those things that I couldn't do all these years.

CHAIRPERSON: Well that remains to be seen.   And have you come to terms with life?

MZWANDILE GUSHU: Since this Government of National Unity, I see myself as a changed person healthwise, I am willing to do anything that this present government is expecting from me and obey all the laws.

CHAIRPERSON: About your quest to want to meet victims and next of kin of people who died, we are not in a position to facilitate that, but what can happen is that your representative, or normally what happens, representatives facilitate that kind of meeting, it's happened many times before, and I can only hope that you can do so, so that people in the area can start living like they should.  I thank you for your attendance.   You're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: We'll adjourn to half past two.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS