Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 2000-10-09

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: The instructions we received was to enter Swaziland, Mr Chairperson and meet W/O Greyling there with reference to tracking down a highly trained ANC cadre.  At that point in time I didn't know, I couldn't recall his name.  I believe it's Mdo now what I heard and to eliminate him, Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: When you say to eliminate him, it was to murder him?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That's correct.

MR CORNELIUS: Now all this planning and the conspiracy was committed within the Republic?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: Fine.  Did you go to Swaziland?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Yes, Mr Chairperson, we did go to Swaziland and we stayed in a hotel on the Manzini/Mbabane Road, I can't recall the hotel's name.

MR CORNELIUS: Fine.  Did you enter Swaziland legally under your passports, or illegally?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Legally via Oshoek border post, Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: I see.   You then convened in this hotel.  What happened then?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: There we got all the necessary information from W/O Greyling, Mr Chairperson, regarding the person, the type of vehicle he's driving, etc.

MR CORNELIUS: According to the information you got from Greyling, was it a highly trained ANC member?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Yes, it was Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: Your group in Swaziland, who did that consist of?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Our group consisted out of myself, Maj de Kock at that stage, who was a Major, Lieut Paul van Dyk, Lieut Piet Snyders and W/O David Britz and we entered Swaziland in two vehicles, Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: I see you mention a kombi and a Golf motor vehicle.

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That's correct.

MR CORNELIUS: Which vehicle were you in?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: I was in the kombi.

MR CORNELIUS: Then the planning, did that take the whole night?  How many days?  What happened?  Can you tell us?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: If I can recall correctly, that would have been just an hour or two the afternoon, a briefing, we would have received from W/O Dan Greyling as to the identification of the person and his vehicle.

MR CORNELIUS: Did Greyling then return to Nelspruit or did he stay there?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: The following - he did stay the night over and the following day he left back from Nelspruit, where we continued doing mobile - how can you put it, Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Reconnaissance.

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Reconnaissance, to see if we could see this vehicle travelling.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you see the vehicle of the chap you were going to eliminate?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: During the day Mr Chairperson, not at all and during the day we did meet up with a sergeant that time, Labuschagne from the Middelburg Branch.

MR CORNELIUS: Middelburg Security Branch?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That's correct and he was purely there to advise us on where the hang-out spots were of ANC cadres in the Manzini/Mbabane area.

MR CORNELIUS: I see.  Did he know the victim?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Yes, he did know of his whereabouts etc.

MR CORNELIUS: Were you successful in tracing him?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: During the day, not at all Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: I see on page 24 and paragraph 3, you say that he was seen and the car registration number was taken, is that correct?  Oh, it wasn't taken.  During the course of the raid, you say, Sgt Labuschagne would have joined the company.  When did you then see this target for the first time?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: It was that same evening, Mr Chairperson.  If I recall correctly it was Lieut Snyders driving the kombi, Mr Labuschagne sitting in the passenger side, that's if I can recall correctly.  Myself and W/O Britz were in the kombi and we were travelling in the main road of Mbabane when we spotted the vehicle outside the pub.  We then stopped across the road from the pub where the ANC member was identified sitting on the pavement talking to people.

MR CORNELIUS: Who did this identification of the victim and the motor vehicle, just to clear up my own impression.

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That came from Sgt Labuschagne.

MR CORNELIUS: I see.  So he identified the vehicle and the suspect?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR CORNELIUS: I see.  So if I look at paragraph 3 on page 24, you say that you were surveilling in order to obtain the registration.

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: That's correct.

MR CORNELIUS: You did not obtain the registration number that time.

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: We did have the registration in our possession, if I recall correctly.

MR CORNELIUS: I understand.  What did you do then?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: We then stopped our - the kombi's window Mr Chairperson, was slightly tinted.  I opened one of the side windows just a brief, and I had a 9mm beretta pistol with me which was fitted with a silencer.  I was then going to  ...(intervention)

MR CORNELIUS: Did you aim at the target?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: I did aim at the target and ...(intervention)

MR CORNELIUS: What happened then?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Just prior to, if I could say just prior to firing a shot off, I was told to abandon this section or mission by Mr Labuschagne, because there were too many eye witnesses by the pub.  We then withdrew - I then withdrew the weapon and during that point in time, the suspect got back in his vehicle and drove.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you follow him?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: We did follow him.  He drove up about two to three blocks, if I remember correctly.  By that time we had to also turn around and three blocks later we found them on a side road talking to a black man by his vehicle.

MR CORNELIUS: Were you still in the kombi?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: We were still in the kombi Mr Chairman.

MR CORNELIUS: Who was with you in the kombi?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Still the same people as mentioned.

MR CORNELIUS: Who were they?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: It was myself, Mr Brits, Mr Snyders, Mr Labuschagne.

MR CORNELIUS: Where was Col Eugene de Kock?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Him and Mr van Dyk were in the Golf.  We were in radio communication with them.

MR CORNELIUS: I understand.  Fine.  You now approach the target for a second time.  What happened then?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: When we spotted the man standing, this Mdo standing outside the vehicle, we decided that we're going to do a drive-by shooting, as we couldn't just stop because we were on the same side of the road at that stage and on approaching the target, we once again, I was delayed and had to withdraw due to Mr Labuschagne.

MR CORNELIUS: What did he say?  Don't shoot.  What did he say?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Basically he said we mustn't shoot now.  I don't know who radioed in to Maj de Kock at that stage, but he was contacted on the radio where we received instructions to withdraw and meet back at the hotel.

MR CORNELIUS: Who gave instructions for you to withdraw?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Maj de Kock.

MR CORNELIUS: Did you do it?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: We did.  The whole thing was then abandoned, as such.

MR CORNELIUS: Now was this whole futile operation, was it ever debated?

LEON WILLIAM JOHN FLORES: Yes, Mr Chairperson, once everyone was meeting back at the hotel, Maj de Kock was quite upset at two stages.  Why did we withdraw from the operation and then as I was notified later, or as it came to me, what happened to be that this Mdo was actually a source of the Middelburg Branch, in particular of Mr Labuschagne, being his handler.

MR CORNELIUS: You say Mr Labuschagne was the handler of the victim and he was his informant?