Human Rights Violation Hearings — Alexandra — 1996-10-28

AMBROSE SHEZI: What I know about him is that he didn't like free things, things which come at no expense.  He used to believe that one has to work for his things.  While he was still
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growing up I used to have a shop at Seventh Avenue.  When the white people come and take cigarettes he used to ask them why are you taking the cigarettes from my dad's shop because my father paid for these cigarettes and you are taking them for free.  And this was a time when he was  still young and he wasn't yet at school.  And I used to say to him don't fight with them because at some times we will be trouble and they might help us.  And he said when you are in trouble they will have to take you to court and sentence you for whatever time that you deserve.  He was not a troublesome person but he wanted all things to be equal.  What I remember well one day one white man came.   This white man was a friend and he asked him where is your dad and he said to him your eye is there and the white man said I want to know where your father is.  And I said to him when a white man asks you where I am don't show him the eye, tell him exactly where I am.  That was the time while he was still young.  And this white friend of mine said this young man needs some respect and when he asked him a second time where is your dad he said my dad is in the house and he is washing.  I don't know exactly where this politics has come from because I am not educated and I don't know what politics is all about.  Even his books.  You won't believe as I am talking before my wife that I had a dream saying that he left his books in the house behind our home.  I wake up at night and I intended to go and find his books at the other house and it happened that I found the books and I took those books and gave to the people whom he said I shall give to.  This is the truth that I know.

MR LEWIN: ... able to establish who it was who pushed him?

AMBROSE SHEZI: He saw this white man standing behind him and he
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pushed him and he fell over the hole.  As he was lying down there his intestines got intertwined.  What worries me the most is that when he arrived at the hospital, when I went to the hospital I realised that I was still fine and I was going to survive but unfortunately I arrived six in the morning and they didn't operate on me until ten in the evening.  He just sat there and all the people just looked at him, they didn't help him.  The doctor that I happened to talk to, I was introduced to him by my son, and the doctor said to him you always say all these men coming around there  are your father and I could see that this doctor was against this young man and I could see there was something wrong because all the white men were against him.

MR LEWIN: When you saw him in hospital at the time he seemed to be fairly ...

AMBROSE SHEZI: I saw him once early in the morning, it was seven o'clock.  They opened the gates for me and I saw him at seven in the morning.  I would like to tell you everything as to what he told me.  When I came back the next morning it was seven in the morning.  I discovered that he had just passed away at about seven o'clock that morning and they have just taken him to the mortuary.

MR LEWIN: Did they ever say why he died, what he had died of?

AMBROSE SHEZI: Yes, they told me, they said he was a politician.  This means that he didn't wanted this differences between whites and blacks and he wanted all people to be equal.

MR LEWIN: But in terms of the hospital, did the hospital ever say what had killed him?  Or was there ever an inquest a which it was established why he died?

AMBROSE SHEZI: I tried to investigate as to how he died in the
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hospital.  What they told me that he had an altercation with a white man before he went to a meeting in Durban and this white man waited for him on the platform, waiting to kill him.  The train ran over him and he got his intestines cut or intermingled.

MR LEWIN: You don't know whether there was a post mortem done on his body.

AMBROSE SHEZI: There was a post mortem but I didn't bring the papers here.  As I explained there was a post mortem and I didn't bring the book now because the Germiston people gave me a letter saying as to what caused the death.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  Can I just establish did the Germiston people ever mention the name of the person responsible for pushing him or did you find out the name of that person?

AMBROSE SHEZI: The name of the person who pushed him was Van Zyl and I got this information from the Germiston office.  The person who witnessed this incident was the person who came with him back home in Tembisa.  This person came once that night and he never came back and up to today I don't know him, I have never seen him and I just know that this man has been killed by a police.  These are rumours.  I don't know exactly as to what had happened to him.  This is the man who told us that Mtuli Masani is at the Natalspruit Hospital.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.  We would like to thank you.

AMBROSE SHEZI: I also thank you.

<UNKNOWN>: We thank you, Mr Shezi.  Before I ask you just one question I would like to ask if ever you can remember anything about Mtuli's funeral.  If you remember well about the speeches that were made, about people coming from universities.
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AMBROSE SHEZI: Yes, I would say that people from different universities came and they said he was their president and these are the people who buried him.  I can't continue.

YASMINE SOOKA: ... the witness to come back if he is able to.  He is quite disturbed about telling the story about what happened to his son.