Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — UNKNOWN

ADV J MOSES: And did you and Eric, did you adhere to that order?  In other words, did you provide training to those other people also?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, it is so Sir.  We followed the instructions.

ADV J MOSES: Now, if you were sent on a mission such as this, where you had to infiltrate a certain group of people Mr Mbane, would you be required to keep the person who is your superior, or who is your commander, would you be required to keep that person informed as to what is happening within the group?  And if that is so, perhaps you could just enlighten the Committee as to how that works.  What is required from you as the infiltrator into a group?  What is required from you?

JIMMY MBANE: In the event of infiltration and being known that you have been trained beyond the borders, I was given a contact number to use in the event of anything.
	Because these ones were not trained, they wouldn't ask me about my activities.  Whatever I did was none of their business.  Therefore, I used to contact them telephonically and make appointments and take a car and drive wherever in order to meet them - my commanders.

ADV J MOSES: So they would...do I understand you correct that they would be....you would report to them periodically so that they would be kept informed as to the developments taking place within that group and within that community where you are operating at the specific point in time.  Did I understand you correct?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes.  I was not reporting on a daily basis, but after a day or two, because...I would skip a day or two or even a week before phoning.  But some of our people with this operation, you would pass by in a patrol car.

ADV J MOSES: You are saying that your commanders would be informed by yourselves as to what the developments are if there are any within the group which you have infiltrated?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, they would get the information through me.  I was the main person who was reporting because Shakes could not drive and that I was doing most of the reporting.

ADV J MOSES: If you are referring to drive now...did you have access to a vehicle when you established your legend as it were, when you infiltrated this group.  Were you given any vehicles or a vehicle?

JIMMY MBANE: I was given a kombi that we came down with, from Pretoria with Mbelo.

ADV J MOSES: Were you...able to use this kombi as part of your mission to infiltrate the group in Khayelitsha?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, it is so.  We kept it with us in Khayelitsha.

ADV J MOSES: Did you keep this vehicle right until after the incident which the Committee is concerned with here?  Namely, if one could refer to it as the Guguletu 7 incident, or did it appear...did you get rid of it before this incident referred to as the Guguletu 7?

JIMMY MBANE: I got rid of it before the event...the police confiscated it.

ADV J MOSES: Could you briefly tell the Committee how that happened?

JIMMY MBANE: When the number had grown to nine and we were doing the training, and they were excited and hungry for action. We went out to shoot a casspir, the doors were closed and we couldn't injure anybody.  When we tried to escape, the kombi was stuck in the sand and thus we ran away and the police came and confiscated the kombi, that's how I parted with it in Khayelitsha.  That was before the mission.

ADV J MOSES: Do you know what happened to that kombi after it was confiscated by the police?

JIMMY MBANE: I contacted Belletjies again and told him about yesterday's event.  I told him about the casspir incident as well.  He said I should not worry about that, but I told him that we needed transport.  They said they would respray it so that I can re-use it again, but I refused because it would put me in a suspicious position.  Therefore, I refused to use the kombi again.  And that is how I finally parted with this kombi until I went back to Pretoria.

ADV J MOSES: Now, in paragraph 28, the reference is made to a alleged person, or a person who is suspected to be an alleged informer.  Because that person was found with a tape attached to his body.  Is that correct?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes that is correct.

ADV J MOSES: It is also made there that this person was killed and in paragraph 29, the day after this person was killed, a certain Lieutenant Liebenberg was contacted by yourself and a certain discussion took place between yourself and one Liebenberg.  Is that so?

JIMMY MBANE: That is so, Sir.

ADV J MOSES: When this discussion took place, was it only with Liebenberg, or was there any other person also present, Mr Mbane?

JIMMY MBANE: Whenever I met Bellingan, he was with Liebenberg, they were always together.

ADV J MOSES: In paragraph 30 reference is made to the fact that the period - you provided these people with training.  You gave them some training for a period of two months.  Is that correct?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, that's correct.

ADV J MOSES: In order words, would we then be correct to say that your group, the unit with which you came down to Cape Town, were here in Cape Town already for a period of two months or more by the time that the incident referred to as the Guguletu 7 incident happened?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct Sir.

ADV J MOSES: Now, in paragraph 33, you...reference is made there that the people started demanding, or telling you that they want to fight - the people you are referring to here, who are they Mr Mbane?

JIMMY MBANE: These are the people I was training.  I had finished training them and they were anxious to go on a mission.  It is difficult to train somebody and after finishing, you just keep them idling.

ADV J MOSES: You got the clear impression from them that they wanted to utilise the skills which they had gained through your training at that point.

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct, Sir.

ADV J MOSES: Perhaps you could inform the Committee what...did you decide on any plan of action?  Or what was the discussions about and did you make any specific plans?  That is now with reference to the group, Mr Mbane.

JIMMY MBANE: Whilst we were sitting there, Rasta called me and Shakes aside because he was one of the seniors of the group, and he told me about the kombi, that comes from Montana to Guguletu Police Station and Mannenberg Police Station and is full of Senior Office Inspectors and it uses that route daily, and when he said that to me I said to him first thing in the morning, we must go and recognise that place, and see whether this kombi follows this routine daily and we did that exactly.
	This kombi went past that route and it was full of officers as he said and I told Rasta that we must monitor this kombi alternately, and thereafter I called Belletjies and Liebenberg and told them about this problem.  The problem was these people have been trained and they want to ambush this kombi that's using this route.  
	The following day I sent Shakes and Rasta to check this kombi and they confirmed that it went past at the same time.  Whilst they went away, I went to meet Belletjies at a hotel in Seapoint where they had booked in a room and I found them there and explained everything to them.
	I told them that there was going to be a problem because these people were fully trained and they want action and wanted to hit this kombi.  On the third day, I reported again and they took me with a kombi that has tinted windows and I showed them the spot that was intended to be the ambush spot.

ADV J MOSES: Sorry to interrupt, Mr Mbane.  Who are they who took you with the kombi to the spot?