Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Gwentshe.  Excuse me.  Mr Sandi has said already that you have a very long and interesting story to tell the people of this country.  We do not have the time, unfortunately, in this particular hearing to go through it in details.  We thank you for sharing with us just a bit of it.  Perhaps you will consider his proposal that you consider writing a detailed book one day.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Well, if that, as it makes sense for this, but that as it may.  Can I not be afforded, except this, another opportunity to speak thoroughly about Irene Gwentshe, this great patriot who died last year?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes, as Mr Sandi has said, our regulation requires that you make a written statement, we read through the statement, we see that the matter forms part of our mandate, we see if there are any names of perpetrators mentioned in the statement, we give 21 day notice to the perpetrators if they are named and then we hold a hearing after that.  So there was no way in which Mr Sandi could permit you to talk about them until the statement is submitted.  What I am proposing to you is that you meet our staff members just now, immediately you come out of the podium and make a statement and, who knows, perhaps there may be a Truth Commission sometime in the future and, a year.  Mr Gwentshe, thank you very much.
 I want to tell you how Mr Card has responded to some of the allegations that you have made.  He has decided not to come personally to the hearing, but through his attorney he has sent us a statement which June Crichton will now read into the record.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: No, they are at liberty, they are at liberty, because I would never be surprised, more in particular here.  They are at liberty to refute whatever I say about them.  Like for instance, Donald Card ...

CHAIRPERSON: No, no not now.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You can step down now, thank you.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Okay.

JUNE CRICHTON: We are not going to ...

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, let us have order.  Thank you very much.  Mrs Crichton will read the statement from Mr Card which is refuting the evidence given by Mr Gwentshe so that we have got that on record.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
"I the undersigned, Donald John Card, do hereby state I am retired, 68 years of age and reside at 5 Avon Road, Woodleigh, East London.  I have been served with a notice from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in terms of Act 34 of 1995, wherein I am informed that between the ninth and 12th of June 1996, one Zweliyazuza Gwentshe, will be testifying and will implicate me.
 Firstly, let me say that I find the information supplied to me by the Commission so lacking in detail, it is extremely difficult for me to answer any accusation made.  
 Secondly, I also find it very difficult to understand how any such hearsay statement could be accepted by the Commission for anyone to answer to.  Let me explain, however, what I know.  
 The name, Zweliyazuzu, means nothing to me, but when we arrested Mzwandile, Mzimkulu Gwentshe, there was another very young brother who was still school-going and I presume he was Zweliyazuza.  Mzwandile and Mzimkulu were arrested in connection with acts of sabotage as they were members of the task team who were instructed to commit certain unlawful acts by the regional command consisting of Malcolm Ncebela, Steve Tshwete, Ben Mashiyane, Reginald Mdube, Washington Bonko, Douglas Sparks and Dwaba.
 Different members of the task team committed various acts and were charged accordingly.  One of the instructions from the regional command was to eliminate one Inkie Goyi who made a statement to the Press that Africans would not be able to rule themselves within 25 years.  This instruction resulted in the death of two 12 year old girls.  
 Firstly, in the allegations it is not stated where the information came from to say that I and others tortured Mzwandile.  I would have seen no reason for him to be tortured, because if he admitted anything, he could not be used as a witness, because he would be hostile.  Also, if the intention was to get a confession out of him this too would have been of no value.  Mzwandile Gwentshe was definitely not assaulted by me or any other policeman in my presence.  I have no idea where the following statement came from.".
"You are too stubborn Kaffir, because your communist father is a leader of the African National Congress."
 I gain the impression that this has been inserted to give publicity to the father, Ascott Gwentshe, because I did not utter those words nor did I hear anyone else do so.  In fact, what would the policeman's intention be.  I must conclude that this is a deliberate lie.  I did hear that Mzwandile Gwentshe had been released due to a mental problem, but that had nothing to do with me or, in fact, any policeman. 
 One thing I do not understand is that the two brothers were arrested together and after the elder brother, Mzimkulu Gwentshe, was released we became very good friends.  We actually visited each other at our respective homes and there was never a suggestion that the family was bearing a grudge.  It will, however, be interesting to know who and what is behind this whole affair.  Signed Donald John Card.".
Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  It is a pity that Mr Card did not avail himself to answer some questions for clarity which we would have asked him at this stage, but we thank him for the statement.