Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-22

MR BRACHER: That is the best you can do isn't it, you accepted?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRACHER

CHAIRPERSON: Are you done Mr Bracher?

MR BRACHER: Yes, thank you.

UNKNOWN: Judge, can I just clarify one thing for me.  I thought you said a few minutes ago that you thought one of the BKA Generals would take responsibility, you named Constand Viljoen, etc, is that what you said, just now?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, I only said that the people under the BKA who accepted responsibility did that because Mr Terreblanche was a member of the BKA, and that is why it carried the approval of the AWB.

UNKNOWN: Yes, but again you don't seem to be making a separation between the BKA and the AWB, because you have told us that you were acting as an AWB member.

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: So where does the BKA and the taking of the responsibility by the BKA come into this?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, the instructions with regards to the bombs, the BKA took responsibility on the news, and I
assumed and accepted that because Terreblanche was a member of the BKA, it would also carry away his approval as well as that of Constand Viljoen and Ferdi Hartzenberg and the other Unions who belonged to the BKA.
	But we did it on the instruction of the AWB.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr De Wet, just a few questions.  You were well trained in the AWB and the Wenkommando and the Ystergarde and you held a high position there?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: You were not one of the men, one of the younger men there?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: You were personal friends with the leader, Terreblanche?

JAN B DE WET: I wouldn't say I was personally befriended with him, but I was his bodyguard.

UNKNOWN: Yes, you were his bodyguard, and you had contact with him on a much higher level than the other people who met him?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Something which bothers me a great deal is at Ventersdorp and then Koesterfontein and then at the game farm, were there never order groups where all the men were involved and told what the plans were?

JAN B DE WET: No Chairperson, not during the time I was there.

UNKNOWN: It seems to me that here at Koesterfontein was a little group who was doing their own thing, and at the game farm there was another group, doing their own thing, and later, when you all left, it was - you quickly made another bomb and quickly planted it at Jan Smuts, is that the right impression I am getting or is it incorrect?

JAN B DE WET: No Chairperson, I wouldn't say that.   From what I learnt from the other people, everybody was called up to go and wage a war and to protect the borders of the Volkstaat.
	The AWB's Wenkommando was gathered all over the area.  Let's say 20 000 to 30 000 people.

UNKNOWN: In what behaviour did they take part, this 20 000 to 30 000 people?

JAN B DE WET: I do not know which instructions they received.

UNKNOWN: The other problem that I've got is around the 23rd, 24th or was it earlier, of April, you gathered together at the game farm?

JAN B DE WET: It was Friday the 22nd, or rather it was more the Saturday morning than the Friday evening.

UNKNOWN: As we understand from Abe Fourie, a camp was put together, communications network was put up with Head Office, guards were positioned, there was very strong discipline?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: And as far as we understand, I think Nico Prinsloo, according to him, somebody who deserted would have been shot?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct, I don't think it was Nico Prinsloo, I think it was Major Johan Smit who said that.

UNKNOWN: Whatever, then on the 24th, we have the Bree Street bomb, you know nothing about that until later that is?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Then the Germiston bomb, the Monday and then all the pipe bombs on the same day?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: And suddenly the whole camp is dispersing, everybody is getting up and going home?  It seems they are fed up with all of this, they want to go home, they want to go their wives, is that correct?

JAN B DE WET: No, I wouldn't say the camp was breaking up.  Some people came and asked if they could not go and see their wives.

UNKNOWN: This is after a few days?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, Chairperson.  I was not willing to go home at that stage.

UNKNOWN: But Mr De Wet, let's be honest here, it does not sound to me, it does not resemble an army who is very determined to fight for their country and to fight till the end, it does not resemble something like that.

JAN B DE WET: Chairperson, the view I had at that stage and why I did not approve of the meeting, it was people who came there to fight a war and after a few days being away from their wives, they wanted to go home.  I did not approve of that.

UNKNOWN: Now just the last question, as Judge Flemming said, there was this very strict discipline, after a while anybody could come and go as they want.  He used the word (indistinct)?

JAN B DE WET: No Chairperson, even at the shooting range, there were very strong security measures in force.

UNKNOWN: The targets, according to what my learned colleagues asked you, as far as the pipe bombs are concerned, would you agree and this is the acts of accusation in the High Court, the one pipe bomb was at Westonaria, Carltonville at a taxi rank where a pipe bomb was thrown, specifically where black people got their transportation?

JAN B DE WET: That is how I understood it from the court, yes.

UNKNOWN: Then there was another one at 3rd and Park Street in Randfontein, also once again, a taxi stand.  Nobody got injured there, but yet again the target was a black taxi stand.

JAN B DE WET: Chairperson, I do not know what the target was.

UNKNOWN: I put it to you now, do you agree with me?

JAN B DE WET: You will have to look at the facts, and if I look at it, yes, it would seem the case.

UNKNOWN: The Bloed Street one, 7th Avenue in Marabastad, Pretoria.  This pipe bomb was thrown at a cafe and also basically a rank where there would have been black people drinking cold drinks and sitting waiting.

JAN B DE WET: I would say the majority was black, but there were definitely blacks as well.

UNKNOWN: By Sannie's Cafe, Marabastad?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Also Bree Street, we heard evidence that most of the victims were black people and also Germiston, do you agree?  I am making a statement?

JAN B DE WET: No, I agree with your statement Sir.

UNKNOWN: And as the Chairperson asked your co-applicants, you did not choose targets in Houghton or Sandton or Sunnyside or any white area, is that correct?

JAN B DE WET: I was not involved with that, so I cannot say the people chose it or not.

UNKNOWN: But it was never discussed that you would plant bombs or throw bombs in purely white areas?

JAN B DE WET: No, it was never discussed Chairperson.  I cannot comment on that.

UNKNOWN: Finally, the statement that Mr Terreblanche faxed through to the Committee, I just want your comment on the last paragraph.
	He said I accept also that in the difficult time which preceded the election, I made several public speeches and that the content of my speeches by members of the AWB, they could be interpreted by AWB members as instructions.

JAN B DE WET: As I already testified Chairperson, things he said from the stage, I interpreted them as instructions and I also thought that it carried away his approval.

UNKNOWN: He doesn't say that it was his instructions?

JAN B DE WET: No, that is correct.  He does not say pertinently that we had to do it.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.