Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR VISSER: Yes, Mr Chairman, I will read it into the record, paragraph No 8 of page 7
"Robbery - JCI Pension Fund
		A cheque to the amount of R36 900 000,00.   Account opened by Colonel Roodt.   Clark provided the cheque and received it from a person working at JCI.   This fund originally was intended for the Volksfront to purchase two-way radios and that was decided to use that for the legal costs of Derby-Lewis.   I personally was against Mr Hani's murder, because we had information that Hani and Mandela wanted to establish a party.   I reported that to Roodt, and Roodt took control of this operation and saw to it that this would not go to Clark.   This cheque was banked on the 3rd of March 1993.   Hani was murdered on the 10th of April 1993.   I and Roodt came to hear of the murder on the 10th of April 1993.   There was no conspiracy with the AWB, the Volksfront, to murder Mr Hani.   We suspect that Mr Clive Derby-Lewis himself orchestrated this attack on Mr Hani."

GEORGE BIZOS: Have you had any training in the police force or any such body, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: I can't hear that question?

GEORGE BIZOS: Have you had any training in the police force?

MR VISSER: Yes, I have.

GEORGE BIZOS: For when were you in the police force?

MR VISSER: I was in the police force from 1980 - sorry, from 1977 until 1986.

GEORGE BIZOS: What rank did you reach?

MR VISSER: I was a detective-sergeant.

GEORGE BIZOS: Were you in any particular branch?

MR VISSER: I was first, my first few years I was in the police Dog Unit, then Commercial Branch and then later, the latter part of the police force, before I left, I was a member of the Security Police.

GEORGE BIZOS: And you mentioned the name of Mr Roodt.   Who was Mr Roodt?

MR VISSER: Mr Roodt was a commandant of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging, he was one of the leaders, at that stage, prior to the elections in April 1994, of certain cells in the West Rand, Krugersdorp, Roodeport, Western Area sections.

GEORGE BIZOS: How do you know that?

MR VISSER: Because I was also a member under him at that stage.

GEORGE BIZOS: Were you a member in '83 - I beg your pardon, '93?

MR VISSER: That's correct, I was a member in 1993.

GEORGE BIZOS: And you mentioned the name of Mr Clark.   Have you seen Mr Clark here today?

MR VISSER: Yes, just briefly.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is that Mr Edwin Clark?

MR VISSER: That's correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: And how did you come to know him and what dealings, if any, did you have with him during '/93?

MR VISSER: I met Mr Clark, I cannot say approximately when, it must have been in early 1992, Mr Clark wrote certain computer programmes for my business at that stage, and that is how I got acquainted with him.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you discuss political or other activities with him?

MR VISSER: I would say in the period of the beginning when I met him, I was not very much, reluctant to get involved with the political situation.   I must admit that during the latter part of 1992, Mr Clark influenced me to join the right wing.   At that stage, the right wing was in a bit of a turmoil regarding all the different organisations that took part in the so-called struggle at that stage.   So therefore we joined as many of these organisations as possible, in the hope of being brought into one arm and at that stage when General Constand Viljoen took over the management of these systems and we obviously, also as an ex-military person, I joined under him also.

GEORGE BIZOS: What was your function in this right wing thing that you were involved with?

MR VISSER: Basically, in the beginning, due to my experience from the police, I did a lot of information gathering.   Fortunately at that stage I still had a lot of my ex-informers from the Security Police days who advised us on certain information that we needed on the African National Congress, the South African Communist Party, so our information that we got from them were then evaluated, sifted and then tested, and then if necessary we passed it on to the correct persons in the structure.

GEORGE BIZOS: During 1983, you and Mr Clark and Mr Roodt and other persons, were you involved in ...(intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: '93.

GEORGE BIZOS: '93.

MR VISSER: '93.

GEORGE BIZOS: During '93, were you, Mr Clark, Mr Roodt and others concerned with getting money?

MR VISSER: Yes, at that stage we were advised through the structures that certain actions would be taking place from the evening of the election, 1994, and we were advised to start a building up of arms and ammunition, the purchase of two-way radios, the setting up of structures, collecting information on military armaments, and if necessary, to collect funds on any possible way that the funds could be raised to buy these arms, ammunition, and for the object of preparing for an armed struggle in this country on the evening of the election, April 1994.

GEORGE BIZOS: And was money collected by unlawful means?

MR VISSER: Yes, in certain cases, yes, they were obtained, and indeed explosives were bought and these explosives were sent down into the structures.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you, Mr Clark and Mr Roodt have anything to do with that, with the collecting of money, or stealing of money?

MR VISSER: Not indirectly, directly yes, we took part in the initial meetings that we had, certain persons were used.  Referring to the cheque of JCI, Mr Clark obtained this cheque through a, I'm not sure of the person's name, I might be wrong there, by the name of Dillis, from JCI Pension Fund.   Initially this cheque would have been used for the purchase of two-way radios for the cause.   As I've said in my paragraph 8, that this cheque was banked on the 30th of March, prior to the murder of Mr Hani, and I must also just make a small correction here, is that at that stage that we were not aware of the fact that there was such an action going to take place.    Nowhere in the structure, especially on the side of Constand Viljoen, were we aware that such an action are going to take place.

GEORGE BIZOS: You say that this cheque, do you know who it was made out to?

MR VISSER: The cheque, I'm not sure, I can't remember if it was a cheque made out to a Mr Goldman, I think, I'm not sure, I'm not 100% correct now if I do mention a name, but it was made out to somebody.

GEORGE BIZOS: But who actually took it and made use of it in order to get the money?

MR VISSER: At that stage, Commandant Roodt went, he opened the account and the cheque was then deposited into the account.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what happened to the money?

MR VISSER: After, in that period between the 30th of March to the 10th of April, it was the Easter weekend and I went on holiday for that period, because we have already booked a caravan stand at Badplaas in the Eastern Transvaal.    I was actually, the evening of the 10th of April, I heard it on the radio that Mr Hani was shot.

GEORGE BIZOS: And did you discuss this with Commandant Roodt and with Mr Clark?

MR VISSER: At that stage, I immediately phoned Commandant Roodt to inquire from him whether he was aware of this, because at that stage, as I've said earlier on that we were not aware of it, that any such action would take place.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what did Commandant Roodt say to you?