Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-02

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETE: Mr Zulu, I was still saying, my instructions and according to our investigation,  you belonged to a gang, Sinamandla which harassed people and women.  You also assaulted a reverend in church.

CHAIRPERSON: I think just ask him as you go along, what he says to it each time.  What do you say to that, did you belong to a gang called Sinamandla, you have already denied that.
	It is also put to you that you were part of a group that assaulted a certain reverend?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: That I don't know.

MS THABETE: I have also been instructed Mr Zulu, that actually there was no political conflict in the area, you were just a group of criminals who harassed people, what is your response to that?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I refute all of what you have just said.

MS THABETE: It is also my instructions that you targeted innocent people, who were sitting under a tree drinking beer, who had not even attacked you.  What is your response to that?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: The people we attacked, formed part of the big group that attacked the IFP people.

MS THABETE: Mr Zulu, I am going to call a witness who is going to testify that he was there when your people were attacked, and the people that you attacked, were not part of the people that attacked your relatives.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I am certain about the facts that they were present.  Whether you call him or not, I will still say that in his or her eyes.

MS THABETE: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Maharaj, do you have any re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MAHARAJ

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR SIBANYONI: Yes Mr Chairperson.  Mr Zulu, when members of the IFP were attacked, were you present?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Please repeat your question.

MR SIBANYONI: When members of the IFP were attacked, were you present?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, I was present.

MR SIBANYONI: Where did it take place?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: This took place not too far away from my house, in the neighbourhood, it was in the morning at around six o'clock.  They got there and killed Mr Luthuli and Mr Sithole.

MR SIBANYONI: How many were the people who attacked Mr Luthuli and Mr Sithole?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It was a massive group.  I could not count them.

MR SIBANYONI: Approximately if you say they were a large group?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I cannot give a rough estimation since it was a large group.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it five people, or was it 20 people, was it as many people as are sitting in the auditorium here, was it 1 000 people?  Can't you give some sort of indication?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It my opinion, I would think there were more than 50.  They arrived at about six in the morning.

MR SIBANYONI: How did you know that they were ANC members?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Please repeat your question.

MR SIBANYONI: How did you know that these people who came to attack, these 50 people, were ANC members?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It is because we saw, we could recognise some of them.  We could tell and establish that these are the people who came to attack and yet at the same time, we knew their names, some of them that is, not all of them.

MR SIBANYONI: Are you saying you knew them out of that group of 50 people, that they were people who came to attack?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It was not dark, it was during the day, it was daylight in the morning, so you could tell and recognise the faces.  Some of them, we knew their names, and we knew where they resided as well.

MR SIBANYONI: Let's move to the day when you people went to attack at Mthetwa's house.  How many people were there?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I don't remember as to how many there were.

MR SIBANYONI: Were there 10 or 50?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I don't think they were above 25, or more than 25.

MR SIBANYONI: What exactly were they doing when you arrived?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: They were sitting down.

MR SIBANYONI: Were they sitting down outside the house, under a tree?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, they were outside under a tree, sitting there.

MR SIBANYONI: Were they drinking?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: No.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Maharaj asked you a question, which to my mind, you didn't answer.  He said how did you recognise them or identify them as the people who came to attack at your area when you arrived there at Mthetwa's house.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Mr Buxusa had already told us that we would find them at Mthetwa's house, that is where they would have gathered.

MR SIBANYONI: I am now at the stage where you arrived at Mthetwa's house, how did you know that these are the people who had attacked you previously or they were different people?  By what marks did you identify them?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Some of them had been present when we had been attacked.

MR SIBANYONI: Were all the deceased people present at the previous attack?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, they were present, and even those who were injured, were present when we were attacked.

MR SIBANYONI: You said you didn't disguise yourself during this attack, because you wanted the people to know that it was the IFP which attacked, did I understand your correctly?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, that is exactly what I said.

MR SIBANYONI: Did you have any other indications, like arm bands or anything to identify yourselves as Inkatha members?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: I was wearing an IFP T-shirt.

MR SIBANYONI: No further questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sibanyoni.  Mr Lax, do you have any questions?

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.  Do you remember you got a letter from the TRC and you were asked to answer some questions?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes.

MR LAX: You wrote a letter.  Did you write the letter, or did someone help you write the letter?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Somebody assisted me.

MR LAX: Did that person read the answers to you?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes, they did read them to me.

MR LAX: Now, in reply to the question and just for the benefit of the record, these questions appear in a letter at page 20 and 21 of the record, it is question 4 at page 20, the question was were any orders given to kill the five ANC members and if so, and I will leave out the first couple of parts, what was the specific orders/instructions?  Your answer appears on page 22 as follows, the instruction was that we must shoot/kill any ANC members in that particular area.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Yes.

MR LAX: That ties in with your first bit of evidence that you gave to us in your evidence in chief, when you were being led by Mr Maharaj, that you went to that area and you were going to kill any person that you found in that area.
	Later on in your evidence, you then changed your evidence and you said well, we knew it was Mthetwa's place and Buxusa said that if we went there, we would find the people who had attacked us.
	I want you to explain why you gave this answer in reply to that question.

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: With regards to the attack?

MR LAX: Why did you say that you went to attack any person you should find in that area?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: It is because Mr Buxusa had already instructed us to go and kill in that area, in fact kill anybody who was present at the meeting.

MR LAX: You see that then makes your statement that the people you killed, were the very people who attacked you and your family and the Luthuli's family, and that you could identify them, totally irrelevant.
	It didn't matter to you whether they were part of the attack or not.  You went there to kill whoever you would find in that place?  Why did you have to identify anybody?
	Do you see my point?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: Mr Buxusa gave this order, because IFP members' herds had been attacked.

MR LAX: Why did you wait six months before you went and attacked this area again?

ZAKHELE AMOS ZULU: We were still planning for the attack because we were actually afraid of them.