Human Rights Violation Hearings — Leandra — 1997-06-03

MR MALAN: Sorry, sorry to interrupt you Mr Nkabinde.  I mean, you are giving us the information leading up historically largely over a very large period or long period of time whereas the purpose here really is to listen to your story in terms of the gross human rights violations perpetrated to you.  So if I can ask you to be brief in your accounting of the history and really come up to the situation which is the subject matter of your statement, because that is the purpose here.  I will appreciate it.

JAN Z NKABINDE: Okay, I am coming back to my story now.  Somebody told me that the vigilante group have now decided that I was the next on the line so I had to run away.  Then I just decided that, no, I have to go, run for my safety in one of the new stands, the houses.  I ran to my families friend, friend's family.  On the 13th of January after the killing of Mr Mayisa ... one of the hosts responded to the knock and told them to come in.  So one of the first people to get in named Michen Farmer said, he mentioned my name and said that they wanted to see me.  So the hosts were surprised to hear that why was I, why was those people looking for me.
 Then when I woke up the group of people who got into the house then came to me and told me that they have been sent by Mr Zondo to come and collect me, because he wanted to talk to me.  Thereafter, okay, I joined them, I left with them.  After about 100m they started hitting me, telling me that it is long that they have been warning me about these things, but I was not listening.  So they took me to Mr Zondo's house.  Upon our arrival it was said that they had to take me, but I did not know where I was being taken to and on the way I was being beaten, was taken to the ground.  Then I started asking them what is happening.  Mr Zondo told me that it is long that they have been talking to me, but I was not responsive.  So they took me along.  They took me to the graveyard.
 Upon our arrival Mr Zondo said that I should be killed, because if I can be left and I am their enemy, I am going to kill them if I am not being killed.  So I was assaulted by pangas and so on, but fortunately I survived.  I was taken to the hospital.  I have got even the documents.  In the end when I was not feeling any pain I no longer, I had, one of the brothers, Zondo brothers came and told them that seeing that they know me, why do they not just beat me and leave me, because there, it is not going to help them, because I am from, I am a local person, because according to their plans they were looking for the outsiders and he also told them that if they failed to do that, he was going to do it personally.  
 After I was beaten he asked me that I had to choose how I, how do I want to be killed.  So they closed my eyes and he put a gun on my head and told me that I am going to die.  Then I apologised to them.  Then one of them who was having the pangas, looking at me, he was ready as if, he stood as if he was ready to kill so I apologised to him and asked him why should he be like this.  Sam Zondo came back to me, came back to them and told them that, no, it is okay, they should leave me, they should not kill me.  He talked to them and then they understood.  After a long discussion I saw one woman coming to me who saw me when I was taken.  So that person went home to report the matter to my parents.  Then my mother came and then she apologised on my behalf and took me along to, back home.  
 Then my mother talked to me and told me that, no, if I want to survive, go on with my life then I have to abandon my group.  When I arrived I found Bishop Makwane and the lawyer, Priscilla Jana, and other names that have been mentioned.  They took me to the doctor.  From there I was taken to the police station to lay charges against the people who assaulted me.  Then I was taken to Welgespruit.  That is how my story goes.

MR MALAN: Thank you very much Mr Nkabinde.  I have just a few questions in my mind and they relate somewhat to the background information.  In your statement you say that you suspect you were taken by these people simply because you were related to Chief Ampie Mayisa, but at the same time your statement tells us that you were active, at some stage you were Chairperson of the Youth League or the youth movement here and in your statement, also, you tell us that at some stage you were arrested, detained for a while and initially charged or at least you were suspected of being involved in the burning of councillors' homes and in some other activities.  Now, Mr Abel Nkabinde also gave us a background to this.  I will tell you so you can just understand why I am putting this question to you.  The Act says we must try to find out the context which is partly what Mr Able Nkabinde gave us.  He said that there indeed was a fight, that some of the councillors' homes were burnt down, business' were burnt down by the youth, some of the councillors were eliminated, murdered.  You were on the other side.  Was it a suspicion or did you have knowledge or was the activity of the youth movement really only limited to formal boycotts of education, of mobilising people against the removals.  From where you were can you tell us a little about the broader context?

JAN Z NKABINDE: Thank you.  Amongst everything that has been said, it was the burning of the councillors' houses, stopping of the removals.  In the whole struggle, actually, I was involved and actually I was in the leadership.  So what I am thinking of is that those are amongst other things that had led to my being the target.

MR MALAN: So, just to get the context, it was really a war-type situation.  It was a two way conflict and I will tell you why I am asking that, because all the statements we have before us today only talk about the suffering of one side of this conflict and we do not get the other side.  I do not really know why, it may be because of our infrastructure, because of the way we are going about it, it may be because of others not trusting the Truth Commission, not wanting to come forward, it may simply be that they are not around anymore, but it is very difficult to form a background and balanced picture on only one side of the conflicts statements.  So you are supporting basically the background information that Mr Abel Nkabinde gave us, that it was a two-way fight?

JAN Z NKABINDE: Yes, it is so.  All the people that are here to give evidence are from one side so we cannot see the other group.  We do not really know what is happening.

MR MALAN: Thank you very much for that information.  Then just one other question again.  In your statement you refer to one of the perpetrators as a Mr Siphiwe Morojane.  Is that the same person, I hope you were here this morning when Mrs Ndlovu gave evidence, is that the same person whose house was burnt down or whose business was burnt down?

JAN Z NKABINDE: No, Siphiwe Makachane is not the one you are referring to.  This is the younger, is the young one, the one whose house was burnt was the councillor, but they share the same name.

MR MALAN: Is he related to the councillor, this Sipho?

JAN Z NKABINDE: That I am not sure of.

MR MALAN: Okay.   Thank you very much for sharing and also the straight forward way in which you replied to questions.  I thank you for that.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Wynand.  Joyce Seroke, Tom Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Sorry, you talk of the demands, you talk about the demands which if not met you would not go back to school.  Which were those demands in short?