Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-07

MALUSI MORRISON: What this means is that white people are the ones who were instrumental in the oppression of our people at Azani, not oppressing them with a stone or using a huge stone over Africans.  What they did proved that they oppressed the people.  I remember on farms many people were killed by Boers, many an occasion small kids - there are things called ovens on farms - where small kids are thrown into those ovens and they burned to death there, childrens of Africa.  Small money paid to people, my people, after having sweated a lot for Boers on farms, that is why we realised that Boers were very instrumental in the oppression of our people.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

MR PRIOR: When you talk of the Boers do you mean white people in general?

MALUSI MORRISON: All of them are the same.

MR PRIOR: Whether they supported the government of the day or opposed the government of the day, you regarded them as being one and the same.  Is that correct?

MALUSI MORRISON: That is so.

MR PRIOR: Even the white people who were opposed to the Apartheid Regime?  Is that correct?

MALUSI MORRISON: Please repeat yourself?

MR PRIOR: Even those white people opposed to Apartheid, you also considered them as Boers, the oppressor?

MALUSI MORRISON: I never knew such white people.

MR PRIOR: And also the white people that were helping uplift the black communities that were doing work in the black areas, you also regarded them as Boers and therefore the enemy of APLA.  Is that right?

MALUSI MORRISON: I don't know of such, I never met such.

MR PRIOR: But I want to indicate to you that if you had taken the time to make proper enquiries you would have discovered there were many such people?

MALUSI MORRISON: Can you please repeat that?

MR PRIOR: I'll move on.
	Did you know Mr Gilbert Seneke the Regional Secretary of the PAC?

MALUSI MORRISON: I know him.

MR PRIOR: I want to refer you to page 121 of the paginated papers for your comment.  There is a clipping from the Daily Despatch dated the 25th February 1993.  I want to possibly just find out from you, if you can, why Mr Seneke said that Mr Sichomiso Nonkuba who had been arrested by police in the Transkei and held for two days had no connection with the Azanian Peoples Liberation Army - APLA?

MALUSI MORRISON: Can you please repeat the question?

MR PRIOR: Well maybe you can just read that first paragraph.

MALUSI MORRISON: I see this paragraph.

MR PRIOR: Can you think of any reason why Mr Seneke, if he in fact said those words, why he would say that Mr Nonkuba was not a member of APLA or was not connected with APLA?

MALUSI MORRISON: As far as my thought go I do not say that's how Mr Seneke thought.  The pain that you experienced as an APLA soldier after being arrested by the Apartheid or the oppressive government was not good or because the police were unable to extract information in ...[inaudible] manner.  They could end up killing you without any proof as to what the reason for your death may have been, not knowing whether what you are giving them is correct.   I think Africa Seneke when he said this was to ensure that the killers and the hit men of the South African Police men of those days must not prosecute our African comrade as they were prosecuting other Africans.

MR PRIOR: Were you a member of the ...[inaudible] Battalion?

MALUSI MORRISON: No.

MR PRIOR: Were you member of any detachment or any group within APLA?

MALUSI MORRISON: As I said I worked at the Department of Logistics, we are working with all other regions.  We did not attach ourselves to any detachment.

MR PRIOR: Who was your immediate superior?  Who did you answer to?

MALUSI MORRISON: We had Comrade Bongani, we had Comrade Mnswalele who was superior to me.

MR PRIOR: Did you fall under Letslapa Paslele?

MALUSI MORRISON: Yes we were below Mr Paslele.

MR PRIOR: And who gave you - you said you received instructions to convey these arms - if the Committee would bear with me - by Situmiso Ntcuba is that correct?

MALUSI MORRISON: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Was his code name Lester?

MALUSI MORRISON: Yes that's so.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Prior, can I just - what are the full names of Bongani and Mnswalele?

MALUSI MORRISON: I do not know them, the administrator can account for that.

ADV SANDI: When you say these people were superior to you, do you mean to say that you were directly accountable to them?

MALUSI MORRISON: What do you mean accountable to report to them?

ADV SANDI: One of the things you said in reply to the questions by Mr Prior, you said they were superior to you, do you mean that these were the people you were accountable to in terms of your duties as a logistics person?

MALUSI MORRISON: Yes I gave reports to them after having done my duties or whatever that may need to be done they would tell me what I need to do.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Can you recall the weapons that you did supply?  The description of those weapons, can you?

MALUSI MORRISON: They were R4's RK's R5's and Uzi, pistols, hand grenades and rounds of bullets.  I would not know the numbers of those rounds.

MR PRIOR: Were there any petrol bombs, Molotovs?

MALUSI MORRISON: No.

MR PRIOR: I want you to try and assist us, can you maybe remember the date when you supplied these arms.  We know that the attack occurred on the 29th November 1992, it was a Saturday.  How long before that date did you supply the weapons?

MALUSI MORRISON: I'm sure I passed the guns on at October, I would not remember the date precisely.

MR PRIOR: But are you able to estimate whether it was about two weeks or three weeks or a month before the actual attack?

MALUSI MORRISON: I say it was in October.

MR PRIOR: Thank you and you handed them to Xundu at Tembasa?

MALUSI MORRISON: Yes at Tembasa.

MR PRIOR: And where did you obtain them from?  Did you fetch them from a specific place or did were they handed to you by Nonkuba?

MALUSI MORRISON: Can your question please be repeated?

MR PRIOR: The weapons that you handed to Mr Xundu, where did you obtain those from?

MALUSI MORRISON: The guns were given to me by Comrade Bongani, ...[inaudible] was present at the time.

MR PRIOR: Did you know that there was going to be an operation in the King William's Town area during November?

MALUSI MORRISON: No, I did not know, I only knew that there are operations at the bottom.

MR PRIOR: Why did you then associate your conveying weapons in October with the King William's Town matter when you heard of it only later towards the end of November?  Yes Mr Chairman, he said he associated his participation with that event.  Did you say that?

MALUSI MORRISON: To ...[inaudible] myself where?

MR PRIOR: You said when you heard about the King William's Town operation you associated yourself with that because you had supplied weapons, you associated the act of the weapons with that attack.  Wasn't that your evidence?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I think Mr Prior, what the applicant said was that after the attack at Golf Club because he had supplied arms, then he realised that those arms which were used there, it must be the arms which he supplied to Mr Xundu and also he went further that he associated himself with that because he was a member of APLA himself, he was participating ...[inaudible]

MR PRIOR: Yes I understand what you're telling me, the question to the witness is why did he make that association?  Was that the only attack during that period or the only operation that APLA was busy with at the time.

MALUSI MORRISON: I telling you and I'm saying the operation of King William's Town happened at Tembasa after I had passed those guns on to Thembelani at Tembasa, that's how I connected the attack and those guns.

MR PRIOR: Right, you never asked Xundu at any stage or any one else later whether in fact that was the case?

MALUSI MORRISON: No that was not my job to do that.