Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1998-09-08

MR KOOPEDI: On the submissions as I can recall, Wimpy appears only as listed, and not as, there are no further elaborations.  However I would with your indulgence, wish to show further that there is more than listing of Wimpy, there is, there was association with this act by the ANC.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I think it will be better for you Mr Koopedi to do that, because if I recall the submissions and the listing of various incidents that are contained in that submission, they are contained therein because the ANC has associated themselves with regard to a number of them, as listed in the submission.  So I think it would be better for you to check and give us more information with regard to the point you are making.

MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Madam Commissioner.  If I may go on, re-visit the issue.  Now I also wish to draw the attention of this Honourable Committee to a publication named Seshaba.  I believe you would know that this was the ANC's newsletter whilst in exile.  I would refer you to the January issue of Seshaba of 1983, page 1 thereof, and I have made copies of this publication and other publications I'm going to be referring you to.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) there's two issues that concern  us in this application and it's based on the opposition.  Firstly on what basis is it alleged that a bomb was blasted in that Wimpy for political reasons;  and whether any of the applicants or all of them have made full disclosure in compliance with the Act.  Those are the two issues we want to hear.  We are quite aware of what certain Seshaba's and the - all the documents of the ANC.  We are also aware of the then president of the ANC, what he said about taking the fight to wherever we needed to take it.  Address us on the merits of this application.

MR KOOPEDI: This is indeed what I am endeavouring to do, I am trying to show you Honourable Committee Members that from these publications and other forms of communication it will be seen as to why and how the applicants descended on Wimpy.  It will also be explained and this is an endeavour to show that it was - the attack on Wimpy was - had many facets to it.  The attack on Wimpy was a political action ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I will be very surprised if you are able to prove that to us because your own clients tell us that the reason Wimpy was blasted because they were after the Security Police - for no other reason.

MR KOOPEDI: May I also with respect remind you Honourable Chairperson that it was in fact elaborated on at some stage and during the testimony that it was not only to get at the security personnel, but it went beyond that.  It went towards the commemoration - the 67th commemoration of the South African Communist Party;  it went towards spreading the necessary propaganda and the issue that was termed "like taking away the honeymoons from the TV screens", and I would urge strongly so that the Committee members should please consider that the applicants before you did not attack Wimpy simply for the one reason, there were a number of reasons.

SISI KHAMPEPE: That in mind Mr Koopedi, I'm with you.  Having that in mind, are you then able to crisply address us on what basis was Wimpy targeted - having all those reasons in mind, are you able to crisply address us on that.  What was the basis for choosing Wimpy as a target, what ...(inaudible), and why is it considered a legitimate target, having regard to the Seshaba issue that you've alluded to, and having regard to the political objectives that you have stated was intended by your applicants, what was the reason why Wimpy was targeted for purposes of propagating the objectives of your clients?

MR KOOPEDI: I am a little lost in what you have suggested, which is whether I am able to crisply address you on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me make it easier for you to understand then.  If a bomb blast which I've got serious doubts about was to commemorate a birthday or a particular date of the South African Communist Party, why was Wimpy the target for that, why not the Union Buildings?

MR KOOPEDI: I would with respect urge the Honourable Committee Members to not only single out the reasons, and consider each reasons for attacking Wimpy in isolation.  The evidence before you has been that there were a number of reasons that led to Wimpy.  Initially ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Give us those reasons, let's list it.  It was seeking out security policemen;  commemorating a particular significant day of the South African Communist Party, what else?

MR KOOPEDI: An armed propaganda tactic.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, what else?

MR KOOPEDI: A respond to a call by the leadership of the ANC to take war into the white areas, and I think those should suffice in terms of the reasonings.

CHAIRPERSON: The last three, how does Wimpy become a target for that?

MR KOOPEDI: Evidence was led before you that initially the idea was to focus on the security personnel in Benoni who was responsible for the mayhem in the East Rand.  Now that is how we come to Benoni, because that is where the headquarters was.  But then as events turned out, the security personnel were seen to be frequenting Wimpy, and as evidence was given to yourselves that at Wimpy this is where they would be most vulnerable, and that has not been hidden to yourselves.  And that is why people then decided to go to Wimpy.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi I've just been talking to one of my colleagues ...(inaudible)
PROBLEMS WITH RECORDING EQUIPMENT - INAUDIBLE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi we feel that we're asking you questions that you are not able to readily at this point in time answer satisfactorily without having the benefit of the documents that you refer to.  Would it be not better to invite you to make written heads or written submissions to us by next Wednesday, and submit it to Cape Town head office.
	Deal with the issues that we've raised with you, in addition to one important issue that we want you to address specifically.  It's the question of proportionality.  Would that be better - not better to do that?

MR KOOPEDI: I will gladly accept that proposition.