Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-29

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, I am after those reasons.  Tell us now.  Tell us those reasons that you knew.

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: What I knew is that Lombo, he was a warlord on the Inkatha side and most of the attacks where families were killed and properties burnt, Lombo was also in front of such attack.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you know this personally or were you told?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I knew him.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, was he a, was he ...

SISI KHAMPEPE: I  think there is a correction that needs to be done.  The witness said I did not know him personally and the translation came through as "I knew him".

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let us put this right.  Did you know Lombo yourself, personally.  Thank you for the correction.

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: No, I did not know him.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: So ...

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know of him?  Had you heard about him?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: Yes, I was told about him.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, were you told by your commanders or people who gave you the order as to what his death would do to the organisation or to the community?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: We were not going to achieve anything or anything that I was going to achieve personally.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Anything that you were going to achieve for the organisation or for the community?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: The community was going to benefit from his death, because what I heard was that they could not even organise in that particular area, the ANC members.  If they happened to have a meeting they were going to be killed.  One other thing is that the community was pleased if he will, when he was removed even if there were some further attacks things began to be calm.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Well, did the, well, you said things began to be calm, but did the violence and the killings and the damage of property in the Edendale area stop after the death of Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: It did not stop or it was not that calm.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Will have arrived at, actually, his death made things worse in the Edendale area.

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I will not disagree with you, because I do not know what is the basis of that statement, but I know that after his elimination many people were saved, because what I was told is that he was the one who instigated most of the attacks.  Even if there were some other warlords we left behind, but he was the one who was considered as a high profile warlord.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADVOCATE MPSHE

MR MIRANDA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Sibisi, had you been involved in any other murders before this one of Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: No.

MR MIRANDA: So this was your first one?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: That is correct.

MR MIRANDA: Do you know why it was chosen to murder Mr Lombo at Joshua Doore and not somewhere else?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I could not ask from the commanders why they choose that particular place, Joshua Doore area, where we had to kill him.

MR MIRANDA: In your affidavit you refer to a gentleman known as Buyani Madladla.  Was he your senior?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: That is correct.

MR MIRANDA: And was the one that gave you the instruction to murder Mr Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: Instructions came from Mandla.

MR MIRANDA: And if I understand your evidence correctly, you took the instructions, did not question the instructions and acted accordingly.

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: Yes.

MR MIRANDA: Hypothetically, if the instructions from Mr Mandla were that you kill a personal friend of yours or somebody that you knew quite well, would you still have carried that out without questioning the instructions?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: An order is an order.  There is not much that I was going to ask, it means I was going to do it.

MR MIRANDA: How did you feel after you shot Mr Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: You mean how I felt.

MR MIRANDA: Yes, how did you feel after you shot Mr Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I felt relief, because I did what I was supposed to do.

MR MIRANDA: And did Mr Lombo say anything before you shot him?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I did not say anything to him or discuss anything with him.

MR MIRANDA: And what was his facial expression just before you shot him?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: I will be lying if I say I managed to notice his facial expressions.

MR MIRANDA: Mr Sibisi, would you have applied for amnesty if you were not recharged for the murder of Lombo?

NHLANHLA JOSEPH SIBISI: Yes.

MR MIRANDA: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MIRANDA

MR WILLS: No re-examination Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Although I had intended to take the short adjournment a little later, it seems to me this would be a convenient stage before we get onto the next.  We will take the short adjournment now.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS