Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — UNKNOWN

WITNESS: Sometimes when I took money to her, because she was the one I used to use to take money to my daughter, on this day she would go to Koliswa and say that she was going to take the money at a certain time.  When I went to her on this day there was this yellow mellow standing in front of her place.  Every day when I would take the money to her I would get off the taxi at another street.  Whenever we had an appointment with her for me to go and give her the money there would be this yellow mellow standing in front of her house.
Ms

J SEROGE: In your statement you mentioned Tando Matsitsibana's names saying that she was one of the survivors during the shootings.  Did she tell you the reasons why there were those shootings?  What were the events that led to these shootings?

WITNESS: In the place where they used to stay they had a shack in Tando Matsitsibana's premises.  In her statement, the statement that she submitted, there are incidents mentioned before the arrival of these police.  She said a lot of things because she was there, but I am going to mention a few things.  On one particular night, it was around 16h00, Nombulelo had told them to take a walk.  It was Nombulelo and another child they were together with.  After a short distance they saw a casper that belonged to the soldiers.  Then she said that they should just turn back.  So they did.  At that time they did not suspect anything.  She did not say what was happening.  She just told the incidents that made a person to be suspicious.  During that night of that same evening her shack was as close to Thandiwe's shack just like these glasses.  This is the road from the township.  The policemen could not use another route other than this route.  You know in a shack area if there is a big vehicle you could easily hear when it is approaching, but there were other people who were on foot, they had torches in their hands.  At the time when they were taking a walk, when they were coming back, that casper was still moving and they went into their own shack.  As you know shacks are very close to each other.  They saw two people with torches.  They started in their shack.  They kicked the door and it was open.  They blinded her with a torch then after that they just left her like that.  
Then one of these big caspers approached and that was the beginning of the shootings.
Ms

J SEROGE: Do you have any requests regarding this case of your daughter to the Commission?

WITNESS: Yes, I do have some requests.  The first one is, since the beginning of the existence of this TRC...  First let me take you back.  There was an inquest but I was never called.  I only heard about it when I saw Mketi's father.  He said he wanted to come and see me because he came to this case.  He was with one of my friends who worked in Stellenbosch.  I was very shocked.  He said to me that he was going to see me at this inquest.  I told him that I was never told about any inquest.  At that time it was already too late because the inquest was over.  I would like to know who killed Thozama.  I wanted to know at that time why Thozama was killed.  I did not even have a death certificate at that time.  I then opened a case.
Ms

J SEROGE: Who was your lawyer at that time?

WITNESS: First I started with Mr Majodina.  He wrote some transcripts which had nothing to do with Thozama.  It was written in Afrikaans but Thozama was not mentioned at all in these transcripts.  I was so curious because I wanted to find out who they were going to mention as Thozama's killer.  
After that he did not proceed with the case.  He just said to me that he was busy.  I ended up taking Boyi Mkalipi's suggestion who said I must contact Husain.  It was now Husain who took the case.  I gave statement.  I even arranged for video cassettes.  I also submitted newspaper clippings.  I told him everything about the funeral.  I submitted everything to him.  I would really want to know how my daughter died.  Why was she shot?  Because when I said this to the police they would say to me that they did not do anything.  They wanted to know where is this Mkada they were looking for.
Secondly, I need protection from the Commission where I live.  My premises is not even fenced so I am not safe at all.
Thirdly, I am this old.  I am an old woman.  According to the Xhosa tradition, if you have a child you know that on a certain day when you have no energy at all you know that if your child was as old as Thozama, Thozama was 23 years old, you know that you will not go poor, you will not go hungry because you have a child who can support you.  At the moment I do not have anyone else who can support.  I have absolutely no one I can turn to.  I do need therefore financial help.

WITNESS: I have another request.  I would like to request the Commission, I know there are many people like me whose children died, whose husbands died, who are so poor they do not even have bus fair to go and give their statements and evidence where they are supposed to which means that people are struggling.  During the time of this whole sacrifice during this struggle, we were not expecting anything at that time, but now things are very difficult.  People have no husbands.  When you go around the township like I do trying to sell this and that, things like fruit, etcetera, you know that you are hungry but if you look at your neighbour you see that they are poorer than you are.  Mr and Mrs Meyer died in a very poor state.  Even your worries can kill you.  What I am trying to come to is, if the TRC can please try and speed up thing it must bear in mind that we have no husbands, we have no children, we have no energy, we are hungry.

APPLAUSE: Ms

J SEROGE: Nombulelo, we thank you.  We have heard your requests, but let me just remind you about something.  We are the Commission are only going to recommend at the end of all this to the government.  It will not be us who will actually give you something, but we have heard your requests and we will take them very seriously.

WITNESS: Sorry, there is just one last request I would like to make.  I personally as a victim would be happy, I know that there are so many victims here in Port Elizabeth, I think if there could be some kind of recognition of all the victims of the apartheid, is there anything that you as the Commission, get some advise if you may, is there anything that you as the Commission, I am going to repeat something which I have already said now, Port Elizabeth people's assets have been destroyed.  There must be some kind of communication between you and the victims and hear their grievances because you will be killing the struggle here in Port Elizabeth.  And Port Elizabeth is the nucleus of the struggle.

WITNESS: Thank you, I am now going to hand over to...
(?) Mrs Mani, I am going to ask you a very sensitive question.  You do not need to answer it.  In your statement you said Thozama, and I quote, "She was completely at her with end and frightened out of her mind.  She was in continent of everything."  Is that correct?
[Information lost due to recording]
(?) Did she tell you at all what might have frightened her so much, but more especially as a woman, do you have any idea what caused her incontinence all around?