Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

VOICE SAMBO: These cars are parked under a net so that they are not burnt by the sun.   They are facing in one direction.   One white man...

MR BLACK: Okay, those cars you're referring to, were they drivable?   Okay.   So they weren't stolen cars?

CHAIRPERSON: What was that, Mr Black, because they were not drivable they therefore were not stolen cars?

MR BLACK: Well he can answer perhaps.

CHAIRPERSON: Isn't that a terrible way of putting it to your client?   I mean you are putting it as a conclusion of fact... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: ...the fact that if cars are not drivable, they therefore have not been stolen.

MR BLACK: All right.   Well, were those cars in any way stolen vehicles?

VOICE SAMBO: I bought those cars.

MR BLACK: Okay, just continue, Mr Sambo, about... (intervention).

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Black, just because he bought them doesn't mean they weren't stolen.   I mean, really, but anyway, that's...

MR BLACK: All right, continue, Mr Sambo.

VOICE SAMBO: Where I was sitting inside my car, I would see everything, because it was an open space, or there was no building structure.   I left there, or I got out of the car, and I went towards the cars, where the cars were parked.   I realised that one of those white men had parked next to one of those cars, or behind one of those cars, and when I looked around, I saw that the other one was parked next to the Nissan Sentra, and then in the middle there were two cars and then at the end there was a BMW.   This other white man had opened the doors of the BMW.   I went straight to the one who opened the doors of the BMW.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sambo, just to make our life a little easier, you already are aware who of the two persons are, you were present during the criminal trial, you are aware that the deceased was Mr Van der Spuy and the person who is here is Mr O'Farrell.   Now won't you, when you give your evidence, just give an indication of which white man you are referring to?    Are you able to say who actually opened the doors of the BMW?

VOICE SAMBO: I won't be able to do so, but the huge one, the massive one, the one who died, whose his name?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Van der Spuy.   Yes, Mr Sambo, thank you.

VOICE SAMBO: I went straight to Van der Spuy.   When I arrived there, I asked him, because I've realised that he had already opened my property and he gave himself permission to do so.

MR BLACK: Did Mr Van der Spuy identify who he was?

VOICE SAMBO: No.

MR BLACK: Did he say he's from the police?

VOICE SAMBO: No, he didn't say.   Before the shooting, he didn't even tell me as to who he was.

MR BLACK: Okay.   Who did you think these people were now?

VOICE SAMBO: Honestly, in my mind I thought they were security branch, just a little bit, but I also thought that they were from a filling station, because they were driving a car with a filling station emblem or Shell emblem, therefore I thought they were from a filling station.

MR BLACK: Okay, just carry on and say what happened then.

VOICE SAMBO: When I asked him, because I can understand English a little bit, I asked him in English why he was opening my cars' doors and he didn't even ask for my permission to do so.   Since we were on this side and the car was facing to that direction, and I came from this angle, he moved backwards a little bit, he started saying something to me, but he was too fast, I couldn't even understand what he was saying, and then he pull out his gun.

MR BLACK: When he pulled out his gun, who did you think these people were now?

VOICE SAMBO: It was too quick, I didn't even have to think of anything, because immediately after he pulled out his gun, he shot at me.

MR BLACK: Well where did you think they came from, were they just ordinary people, or what?

MR LAX: He said he didn't have time to think about that, that's his evidence.

MR BLACK: Well okay, carry on, Mr Sambo.

VOICE SAMBO: I went towards him and I grabbed the hand which had the gun.   We fought just for a little while, because at the time this other white guy wasn't there.   This happened during a short period of time, I can't even estimate the time, it was too quick.   Fortunately, I grabbed the gun from his hand and I shot at him, as he shot at me, I also shot him.   After I shot him, he ran behind the BMW.   I didn't look at him at that time and then I started looking for this other one, I don't know his name, this other white man, and then I realised that he was now in front of the BMW.   When I saw him, he already had a gun, like I've already mentioned that there's a net where I put the cars under, it's sort of a garage which is made out net, at that time that's when I realised that these people may be police, and I told him to drop the gun, and at that time I was shooting.

MR BLACK: Mr Sambo, when you started to realise that these people might be police, what do you think their purpose was there to do, what was their reason for being there, when you realised that they were police, what did you think their reason was?

VOICE SAMBO: That's when I realised that these were the ones who were going to come and kill me one day, even though I didn't know.

MR BLACK: Earlier on you used the word "assassinate", is that what - encapsulated in one word, did you think that these people were there to assassinate you?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Okay, would you just continue please, Mr Sambo?

VOICE SAMBO: When I was shooting down, when I told this other white man that he must drop his gun down, he did so and then he ran away into the field.

CHAIRPERSON: You shot down before saying he must drop his gun?

VOICE SAMBO: Yes, that's correct.   I took his gun.   There was sand there.   Now I had his gun, the other one, since he saw me as he was turning behind the BMW, at the time I was hurting because I could feel the pain where the other guy shot me... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Just - you were asked, Mr Sambo, to try and, for the case of record, when you talk about "the other guy", who shot you, Mr Van der Spuy or O'Farrell?

VOICE SAMBO: Van der Spuy.

MR BLACK: Okay.   And what happened to Mr O'Farrell?

VOICE SAMBO: The last time I saw him he ran towards the field, and then when I turned back looking for the other one, because when standing next to the Nissan Sentra, you will see the wall of the house towards the pathway to the gate.  I went up straight.   There was a flower next to - or a plant next to the Sentra.   Approximately five metres, this flower pot was there next to this Sentra, and then I realised that he was lying there.   As soon as he saw me, he started screaming.

CHAIRPERSON: Wasn't his evidence that as he was lying there, he was screaming, and not that he was screaming when he saw somebody, mis-translated?

VOICE SAMBO: When he saw me, he started screaming, because I was coming towards him having the gun, or pointing the gun at him, that's when he told me that "I am a policeman and please don't shoot me", that's what he told me, he told me this in English.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that what you mean when you say he was screaming?

VOICE SAMBO: When I was, or when I arrived at that corner, that's when I saw him and he saw me.   Where I was, it's a pathway going towards where he was lying, that's when he started shouting, saying that he's a policeman and I mustn't shoot at him, he said I mustn't kill him.

CHAIRPERSON: There was a translation about that?

VOICE SAMBO: I walked past him.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed, Mr Sambo, with your evidence.