Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-11

CASE NO: CT/00653

YASMINE SOOKA: Could we now call Walter Smiles to the stand please?   Could we have quite in the hall please.
Walter, thank you for coming here today to give your evidence, we are very pleased to see you here.  Is there any reason for the glasses?

WALTER SMILES: No - no there is no reason - there is no problem - I'll take them off.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much, we would like to see your face properly.  Mr. Potgieter will administer the oath.

ADV POTGIETER: Will you please stand.
WALTER SMILES Duly sworn states

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much, you may sit.

YASMINE SOOKA: As we usually do, we will now ask a commissioner  [indistinct]

ADV NTSEBEZA: Mr Smiles as you heard earlier, my Afrikaans is not that good, I will put my questions in English and it will be interpreted into Afrikaans and you can tell your story.
Mr Smiles I think  firstly I would like to welcome you again and I would like you to understand and realise that you are not on trial here.   That our duty and our purpose in the Commission is to lay bare the truth and hopefully in laying bare the truth people will be able to reconcile it - one with another and also to be able to forgive one to the other, do you understand that?

WALTER SMILES: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: So I would like you to feel very free and even in your remorse and in your contrition you should still feel free that today is an opportunity for you to get this load off your chest and this load off your shoulders.  
Now, first of all I just want you to tell us who you are, very briefly.

WALTER SMILES: Yes I am  [indistinct]

ADV NTSEBEZA: Ja who you are - where  you are now  and before you come to the events that have led to this hearing.

WALTER SMILES: What happened was the following.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Jy kan maar in Afrikaans praat.

WALTER SMILES: Okay ek sal in Afrikaans praat.   
I am Walter Smiles, I am a member of the ANC Youth League and the ANC from when we started in Marshall Street and our structure was sound and I was with MK and everything was fine.
What actually happened on this particular day - there was a march - a COSAS  march and I knew nothing about this march and it started in Arena.    I sat on the wall at the four-way stop in the township and we went back to Arena and that's where I saw where the march came from.
And then we got into the cars and we drove off and everything was still fine.  And we went all the way to town and when we arrived here I wasn't told what the whole cause of the trouble was when I got into the car - that was never explained to me.  What then happened is that the Major asked me, this is Lawrence Mbatha that I am referring to, the Commander of the Northern Cape.
We went up and he then took me to the OK Centre at the four-way, it's a four-way stop and there were lots of  people because there were lots of people and it was time to go home and we got off there.
When I got out of the car there I wasn't informed of any grenade or anything - I was just given a piece of paper, a wrapped up piece of paper and there was a grenade inside - there was a grenade inside the paper.

YASMINE SOOKA: [indistinct]  not be able to hear his evidence and he will not be able to tell his story confidently if we make such a noise.  Could we please ask you to keep quite so that he can tell his story in peace please.

WALTER SMILES: Everything was okay with the grenade - I accepted the grenade because I'm a member of MK, I am a member of ANC Youth League, I couldn't resist it if anyone wanted information or Military, I took it as a command.
Then I eventually found that I was already connected with the case.  But you see I have no experience of this type of thing and when we went up it was all right and when we got there the petitions were handed over, the first petition, the second petition and the third petition - when it was time to hand over the third petition, then there was a sign that I must throw this grenade.  And he laid down at the same time,  so when I threw it I was weak I had had no experience of this type of thing and then I threw the grenade and then I felt very sad for the harm that  I caused and I heard somebody had died and I felt very bad.  My heart was very-very sore.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Take your time Mr Smiles.  What happened then thereafter when -  after you realised that somebody had died and it was one of your people, not the target at which you had aimed your hand grenade at.  What did you do, did you go back to Lawrence?

WALTER SMILES: I went down - there is a place there and I met him there.

ADV NTSEBEZA: And what happened then?

WALTER SMILES: What happened as I went to the ANC office, I wanted to tell my story and I still felt very-very bad for what had happened -  for the death that I had caused.  I went to the funeral a week later.  Sipho also found me there, I couldn't say anything, I couldn't do anything because the deceased's family were also there and they were also very hurt.
It was not my intention to do this, if I had had experience nobody would have been hurt.  That experience I only gained later in the camps and when I learned about various kinds of arms and ammunition.  And what I feel is that I would like to apologise for the deceased's family and people in general because it was not my intention to cause harm.  I wouldn't have - I wouldn't have done it  if  I had had more experience because I should have known that I was risking my life but what about the other people?

ADV NTSEBEZA: Do you know why the police did not accept your story that you were the person who threw the grenade, do you have any idea?

WALTER SMILES: Well, when we got to the police they said I am only confusing the issue and they said it was Lawrence and myself and I think it was the attorney Isaacs.  We were talking and they chased me away.  They said  no we don't need you Smiles, you are just confusing the issue, go away.  I think this thing has affected me very badly, the more I try and forget about it, the more it affects me.

ADV NTSEBEZA: If it was possible for the Commission to do something for you what would you like us to do?

WALTER SMILES: What I would like the Commission to do for me is I would like to apply for indemnity  and I would like the people who are in prison to be released because it is not their offence, they weren't responsible.

YASMINE SOOKA: Please could we refrain from doing that please.

WALTER SMILES: I would also like to apologise to the deceased's family - they didn't know me beforehand - before  this incident.   I know I caused them great pain but I am also suffering.  Everybody is hurt by a death, it's very painful - that's all I would like to say.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you very much Mr Smiles, I have no further questions.

YASMINE SOOKA: I would just like to ask you two questions the one is where is Major Lawrence Mbatha - do you still have contact with him?

WALTER SMILES: Yes, I think it is partly because we are still in this integration process.

YASMINE SOOKA: Also could you tell me a little bit about what happened to you afterwards.  I note that you mentioned that you were in the camps - did you also go into exile afterwards?

WALTER SMILES: No,  I should have - I should have gone in 1992 but I couldn't because at that stage people started to come to South Africa to train here.

ADV NTSEBEZA: [indistinct]  that you will  end of Tape 3, Side B ...  you mean the camps where the integration was taking place?

WALTER SMILES: Yes I was only - that's correct.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Ja.