Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-18

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: In many cases, particularly in my military training, they said each and every comrade should be, I should trust him only 90%, I should reserve the 20%(???).  Those are the aspects of my training, that is why that if it happens that we should have a disturbance, or the compromise of the information, or the leak of information about the target, there should be a way of misleading the security forces if it happens that if somebody leaks the information about the presence of APLA and the presence of the PAC in a particular area.  That is why I brought the deception plan.  The most important thing is that, firstly, I safeguarded the security of the potential target, and then I again safeguard the security of the team which would take part in the operation.

MR MBANDAZAYO: As a regional commander, you gave the order for the attack at Wesselsbron supermarket.  Now, can you tell the Committee your reasons, or how did you arrive at that decision that this must be attacked?

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: The first reason is that we, as Africans in general, when I talk about Africans, I don't want to use the word black, because if you look at me, I'm not black, so I would choose this word black, but we as Africans in general, we were oppressed, and in that oppression, it was clear that who are our oppressors, those are European settlers.
	What I want to say that to identify or select a target in white South Africa, it was not a problem to us, becuase it was clear who are our oppressors, that is the Europeans.  This attack happened, looking that it is not possible for us to achieve our liberation unless those who benefit from their oppression, all those who are represented by, or they represent oppression, and those who support and maintain the villas of white supremacy, those people to us are targets, because we, as Africans, we were more important than any other person who is not an indigenous citizen of this country or in Africa as a whole.  
	It was clear that Europeans came, settled in our country and they disowned us of the ownership of this country and oppressed us, they harassed us and did all those things.  So that in itself, they put themselves as a target to ourselves.  So it was not a problem to identify a target.  What I would say is that the most important issue is that it was a way in which we would be able to fight the corruption and the oppression and the oppressors themselves.  It was the way in which we would be able to retain or attain our identity, and it was the way in which we would be able to attain our land and our government.  So anything which is represented by Europeans in Africa, and those who represent oppression, to us are a target.

CHAIRPERSON: I do not want to stop your client from making his political remarks, but the question simply was how did they select this target, not how did they select targets in general.  Will you please try to keep him to the point.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I was about to intervene at that point.  Mr Khotle, we know, what I wanted was this specific, this target, this Wesselsbron target, that's one specific incident which we are about here, this application is about the Wesselsbron supermarket, so I want you to confine yourself to the Wesselsbron supermarket.

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: We were able to identify this Wesselsbron target among other targets.  We did not have resources which we will be able to choose other targets which were confirmed before, so this would be the target which would enable us in a position to attack other targets.  So that is why we were able to identify this target, because it will give us resources, we would be able to get money and use that money to carry out the execution of other targets.  That is why we came to that conclusion.  I don't know if I've answered your question, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, to the extent, I think, that that tells us why you would want to attack a supermarket or something of that nature, what we want to know is why this particular supermarket?  There must have been others in the area, why this one?

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: As I've already explained that we did not have problems of which target to start with, we did not have a problem to identify targets.  During our organised struggle for liberation, this supermarket which was attacked, it was one of those areas which could have been attacked at any time by any other unit.  Why specifically this one, I would like to say, I want to say that oppression was not mainly as Africans, we don't have skills or maybe it was because of the greed of Europeans for us to come to this conclusion that we attacked this area, we had many targets, now this one would make us able to attack other targets, because of the money we would receive from this.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman asked you specifically that he understands that there are many other supermarkets which possibly they were also targets, potential targets, if I may use your words, but the question he wanted was that you have already indicated that you were able to get money, but he wants to know why specifically this supermarket, the Wesselsbron supermarket, why specifically that one, because he understands maybe there are other supermarkets where you were able to get money, but now why specifically that one?

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: Let me put it this way, when I spoke about many targets which we have already identified, I said targets, as to whether they were supermarkets or not, I didn't say that, they were not all supermarkets, in those targets there were no supermarkets, there were certain areas.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Before you go forward, no, he did not say that you said that the targets were supermarkets, he himself said he understands that there are other supermarkets or any shops which are in a position of that supermarket where you were able may to attack or to get money from.  Now he wants to know why specifically that one, not necessarily that it was said by yourself?

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: We chose this one because it did not have problems.  There were other targets which the situation around them were a little bit complicated, and the security was different, or maybe the team which would attack there would not be conducive for them to be attacked.  That is why we chose this one, because firstly, according to our tactics, we attack where the enemy is weak.  That is why we attacked this one.  It has access and it will be able to be attacked and be able to retreat without the interference of the security forces.  That is why we chose this one.

MR MALAN: Can I just follow up on that please?  The evidence we have before us is that, from yourself, that this supermarket was guarded by people with pistols, wearing plain clothes, we have your evidence that Mr Bhani told you that it was frequented by security police, we have his evidence that it was frequented with AWB members carrying guns in uniform and by police, and that the police station was two blocks up the road, what makes this a weak target?  Is this not a difficult target, wouldn't it be a major feat to do what you indeed did do?

LERATO ABEL KHOTLE: What I know is that the police station was near to the supermarket.  You cannot rely on the police, because in most cases over the weekend they will go and drink in the township, that is what we realised, that during the weekend the police will relax and go to the township, others will go to the City Hall, so that was our deduction, we saw it easy to attack that place then.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And in an event... (intervention).

MR MALAN: Sorry, who told you that they were relaxing over weekends and going out for drinks and going to the City Hall, who told you that?