Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:   After the funeral of my brother they arrested my younger brother and they - it was under section 29.  As I am talking to you now he is mentally disturbed.  He told us that he has been shocked and he doesn't feel anything thereafter.  The police used to come and fetch my younger brothers.  They would arrest anyone they find at the home.   Have you finished telling us your story?   ---   Yes.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.  Can you please answer some few questions so that we can help you.  The first question that I want to ask, your brother who died in the hands of the police, how old was he during that time?

WITNESS:   He died at the age of 23. The other one who is mentally disturbed, how old was he?   ---   He was 19 years old and I was 21 years old.

UNKNOWN: In your speech you said when the other one was arrested they would come to fetch the other one.  Do you have any reason behind all this?  How many were you at home?

WITNESS:   We were five, but there are four left behind.  I am the only daughter, and three boys.

UNKNOWN: In your statement you say he had a clash with the police during the rent boycott.  Will you be able to identify the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know them.

UNKNOWN: You said they arrested the ministers, the reverends who were at the funeral.  Do you know the names of the reverends who were supposed to conduct the service.

WITNESS:  Yes, I know them.

UNKNOWN: Let's go back to this brother who is mentally disturbed.  Do you receive any grant, disability grant, or does he get any assistance?

WITNESS:   No, nothing up til now.

UNKNOWN: Have you tried to get him some assistance?

WITNESS:   Yes, they went to Johannesburg to see the doctors.  Even in Parys Dr McLarry attended to him, he gave him some treatment.

UNKNOWN: What is your request?  What would you like the Commission to do for your family?

WITNESS:   I would like the Commission to find out the reason why my brother has been killed, because the policeman who killed him was a member of the A-Team before joining the police.  From school we have been in conflict with each other.  Maybe there is a reason why he killed my brother.

UNKNOWN: You say the policeman was a member of the A-Team before.  Do you know him?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know him. If we would ask you his name you would give us the name?   ---   Yes, I will.

UNKNOWN: I am ready to allow our colleagues to ask any questions.

DR BORAINE: Ms Nakedi, could I go back to the 24th of September 1988 when your brother was shot.  You said that at that time they not only shot him, but they narrowly missed shooting someone else.  Who was that person?

WITNESS:  It's Mr Marumo Lepho.

DR BORAINE: And where is that person now?

WITNESS:   He is alive as we are talking now.

DR BORAINE: And do you know where he is so that we can contact him?

WITNESS:   He is in Thumahole.

DR BORAINE: And if we ask you afterwards to give us the address or contact would you be able to?

WITNESS:   I don't know the address where he stays, but I can take you to his place.

DR BORAINE: That will be very helpful.  The other question, only one other question I have to ask, is your brother was detained in the Heilbron Police Station, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

DR BORAINE: And you say he was severely tortured before he was shot.  Did he ever tell you what happened?

WITNESS:   Yes, he used to tell us.  He said while in detention the police assaulted them every day.  They even shocked them with electricity.

DR BORAINE: And these are the police you say that you know their names?

WITNESS:   No, he said those were the police from Heilbron Police Station, and some of them were from Welkom.

DR BORAINE: Thank you, we'll make all the inquiries.  Thank you for your help.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Ms Nakedi, you spoke about a witness that left the country in your statement.  Is that the same person that you just mentioned, Marumo Lepho?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's the Marumo I referred to earlier on.

MR LAX: Is he the witness that left the country?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's him.

MR LAX: Now, where was this case reported?

WITNESS:   At Parys.

MR LAX: And one last question.  The police who you say shot your brother, where did they come from, which police station?

WITNESS:   The same Parys Police Station.

DR MAGWAZA: Ms Nakedi, I would still like to know more about your brother.  Did he belong to any political organisation, and at the time he was shot what was he doing?  Was he working, was he a scholar?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was in the ANC.  During that time he was a field worker for the advice office.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.  We are trying to feel the same pain that you felt.  We want to give our deepest sympathy.  We don't want to promise you miracles, but we will try to solve these cases so that we can come up with an information as to who the perpetrators are.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: Chairperson, the next incident that we are going to hear concerns a man whose name was Professor Hlahlalane Sibankhulu, and I understand that there are three members of the family who will be coming up to testify, and I would like them to come forward now.  Veli Katherine Sibankhulu, Thabile Clarissa Sibankhulu, and Zanele Hazel Sibankhulu.  Would they please come forward.  (Pause)  Now I have to ask you if you can - those of you who are using the headset, can you hear my voice?

INTERPRETER: None of them is using it.

DR BORAINE: And you are going to testify in Zulu or in English?  In Zulu?  Please put on the headsets then.  Now, I would like to make sure that I know exactly who you are, so please - first of all, can you all hear me?  Good.  All right, now am I right in assuming that Mrs Veli Sibankhulu is the mother of Professor Sibankhulu?

INTERPRETER: Yes, she is.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  You are very, very welcome.  We're going to hear a little later about the death of your son.  And then we also have Zanele Hazel, who is the sister, is that correct?

INTERPRETER: Yes.

DR BORAINE: And finally there is Thabile Clarissa, who actually identified the body and will testify to that, is that correct?

INTERPRETER: Yes, that is true.

DR BORAINE: Fine.  Thank you very much indeed.  Sorry about all the questions, but it's important for us to know exactly who is who before we start.  Because all three of you are going to give testimony, even though the one is only going to testify about the identification of the body, I have to ask all three of you to take the oath, and I suggest we do that one by one.

VELI KATHERINE SIBANKHULU, ZANELE HAZEL SIBANKHULU AND THABILE CLARISSA SIBANKHULU: (Sworn, State)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much for your help and co-operation.  The story you have to tell is a very distressing one, and we want you to know that we are sympathetic towards you, and are hoping that you will feel relaxed as much as possible as you tell this story, and I am going to hand over to my colleague, Mr Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Can I first mention to the members that the statement which is written Clarissa, in fact it should be Zanele Hazel.  Can you please correct that?  Instead of Thabile Clarissa it should be Zanele Hazel.  That's the second statement.  Thank you.  Mama Sibankhulu, as the Deputy-Chairperson has already said we thank you for being here.  We also thank your daughters for coming to be with you.  We also hope that God will give you strength.  We know you are in a very painful situation.  May God give you strength to relate to this Commission.  In your statement you first explain that you were with relatives in Diepkloof at the time when you heard this news.  Could you just relate how you got this news up until when you buried him and other related matters?