Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-03

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, they were just ordinary people who were known to be members of the IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your house burnt down?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, it wasn't.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Claassen, you may proceed.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madam Chair.  Mr Mtambo, I also wish to draw your attention to page 18 of the application bundle.
	Mr Mtambo, it is a statement by yourself, a confession statement which was taken on the 5th of June 1993 and in this statement, several things are said which does not coerce with anything you have told this Commission so far today.
	Can you briefly tell the Commission what the circumstances surrounding when you made this affidavit, why you said the things that you did?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I would like to ask as to which statement are you referring to, you are talking about my application or my statement?

MR CLAASSEN: If I may Madam Chair, the confession statement taken at the Davel police station.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I can explain.  I made a statement in the police, and I didn't tell the truth, it was a lie.
	I was trying to escape from being sentenced for what I had done.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Mtambo, can you just tell the Commission what do you, how do you feel today about these offences?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I am not relieved at all.  I am not at rest for what I have done.
	I am deeply sorry, more especially when we mention the deceased's name.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madam Chair, I have no further questions for the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CLAASSEN

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to put to Mr Mtambo?

MS THABETE: Yes Madam Chair, I do but before I proceed, I would like to put it on record, that I have met with the victims and I will be representing them as well.

CHAIRPERSON: We shall note so.

MS THABETE: Mr Mtambo, you have testified that there was a lot of political conflict at your area.  During what period was this?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: From when I joined the IFP, it was always like that.

MS THABETE: From which year, 1990?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: It was 1992.

MS THABETE: In 1993, isn't it correct that at that time, the conflict had died down, even though there was still enmity between IFP and ANC?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, it is not correct.  The truth is there was enmity and there were conflicts.

MS THABETE: Well Mr Mtambo, according to my instructions, by the time, by 1993, there wasn't political conflict between IFP and ANC, even though before, there was.  What do you have to say about that?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't understand your question Ms Thabete.  Are you saying that there was no enmity between the ANC and the IFP and that there was no conflict?

MS THABETE: There was enmity between IFP and ANC, but by 1993, the fighting had stopped?   What is your comment on that?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I deny that.

MS THABETE: Okay.  What were the relations between you and Mr Phumayo, the deceased?  Did you talk to each other, or did you just know him?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I used to talk to him, in fact I have spoken to him about the violence at Davel.

CHAIRPERSON: Won't you just be specific Mr Mtambo bearing in mind that we have read all the papers that you have used in support of your application.
	Isn't it true that you in your application stated that you grew together with the deceased, played together and that you were friends, although you had different political ideas in that you belonged to different political organisations?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: We actually grew together, at the time he wasn't a participant in political organisations.

CHAIRPERSON: So you knew him quite well?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: That is the question that Ms Thabete was trying to elicit from you.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: My apology there.

MS THABETE: When Duduza Qaba told you that you will be attacked, you have testified that he didn't mention any names, isn't that so?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.

MS THABETE: When did she actually tell you that your life was under threat?   Maybe to help you, in relation to the death of Mr Phumayo, when did she tell you this?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He told me before I killed Mr Phumayo.  What Duduza told me, when he told me, Phumayo was still alive.

MS THABETE: Was it two days before you killed him, was it a week before you killed him, was it a month before you killed him when you were told this?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: On the same day when I killed, on the 29th.

MS THABETE: So when you say in your application at number 9 A4, page 8, that you had received earlier on a tip to the effect that the deceased made a vow that if you could be eliminated, their organisation in their region, will have peace of mind, that is not correct?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.  But this is what he said, him, the deceased, not Duduza.
	This is what he told me.

MS THABETE: Who told you that the deceased had said this then?

CHAIRPERSON: That is the deceased himself.

MR LAX: Yes, that is what his evidence is.  His evidence now is that the deceased told him that himself.
	When did he tell you this?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I met him as I was leaving Mthetwa's house.  I don't remember the day, but this was before I took a decision that I was going to kill him.  He was the one who told me first that if I were to be killed, ANC will gain more members.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Can you explain what you were doing at Maria Mthetwa's shibeen that day when the deceased was killed?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I was just sitting there and this is the place I used to frequent.

MS THABETE: Were you drinking that day?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, I wasn't.

MS THABETE: So what were you doing there at the shibeen, just briefly, if you were not drinking?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I was just sitting there with the people who were drinking.  Most of the time, this is the place I used to sit.  I used to frequent Maria's place, sometimes Saturday morning, I used to spend my time relaxing at her place.
	When you are there, you can actually see the school.

MS THABETE: No, it is fine, I don't need to know to reason why you were there.
	Do you drink at all generally?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I do.

MS THABETE: Okay, when you arrived at Maria Mthetwa's shibeen that day, did you have a gun with you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes.

MS THABETE: Was it your gun?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes.

MS THABETE: Why did you have a gun with you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: To protect myself because the situation was bad.

MS THABETE: You say you saw or maybe I should ask you, when you saw the deceased, where were you, were you still at Maria's shibeen?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I was inside her house.

MS THABETE: It wouldn't be true, because according to your application, let me just look for the page number, page 28, you say you were on your way home when you saw Mr Phumayo, so that means it is not true that you were actually at Maria's.  Which version is the true, were you at Maria's place or were you on your way home when you actually saw Mr Phumayo?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: If I can explain there, when I left Maria's house, I was going home.

MS THABETE: So what are you saying, were you on your way home, or were you still at Maria's place when you saw it, that is what I am trying to find out?

CHAIRPERSON: Can I explain what Ms Thabete is trying to find out from you, at page 30 I have got a typed record, whose handwriting is this Mr Mtambo, is this your handwriting?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, it is not my handwriting.

CHAIRPERSON: Who wrote the statement for you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Alson.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Alson?  Who is he?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He came to visit me in prison.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he a friend?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, he said he was sent there by the TRC to take the statement.