Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to stop you there, man.  Did the case continue or not?

MS GASEBUE: No, the case continued.  It was conducted for three days and on the third day all the witnesses testified.  Only my testimony was remaining behind and that of Hoffman Galeng and that of Evelyn.
 It was not the Magistrate we knew.  He was from Wolmaranstad.   During the case the Magistrate said that Hoffman Galeng and Evelyn would not testify.  We will only take your statements and add it together with the statements MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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of other witnesses, and we will take this case to the High Court in Kimberley.
 And after he told us so, he told us to leave the building.  When we came back again, they said the case was dismissed.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your boy active in politics?

MS GASEBUE: Yes, he belonged to the UDF.

CHAIRPERSON: When they shot him, what was happening?

MS GASEBUE: There was nothing happening when they shot him.   There were no riots.  There were no violent people around by that time.

CHAIRPERSON: You said you went away with your lawyers.

MS GASEBUE: Yes, it happened on the following day.

CHAIRPERSON: Who are your lawyers?

MS GASEBUE: I don't know their names, because I was so confused by that time.  The child was killed on the 25th and on the 26th the lawyers arrived from Guateng.  Maybe Hoffman would know who the lawyers were.

CHAIRPERSON: Ok, we will ask Mr Hoffman about those lawyers.   Did they do any post mortem?

MS GASEBUE: Yes, the most-mortem was conducted.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you receive any papers regarding the post-mortem?

MS GASEBUE: No, I haven't received anything, not even the birth certificate has not been given to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you talking about Vryburg Hospital?

MS GASEBUE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was the post-mortem conducted?

MS GASEBUE: I don't know where the post-mortem was conducted, because I didn't find him at the hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: I thank you, mam.  I would like Evelyn to MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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add information which you have not given to us.  I wouldn't like her to repeat what we have already heard.

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: It was the 24th November in 1985, while I was lying on the bed in my bedroom, a boy came along running and he entered my bedroom.  And then I woke up and pushed him outside.  And he said to me, please sister don't do that to me.  If these people can see me they are going to kill me.
 I then closed the door.  I thought if it were my child running to a person's house and being chased away, how would I feel?  I then closed the door behind us and then we hid behind the door.
 The people were running along the streets.  A group of people came and then they shook the door and they said to me, open the door.  If you don't open the door we are going to shoot it.  I said to the boy, please hide underneath the bed.  And then he went to hide himself.
 I then opened the door.   Opening the door, they grabbed me and they made me stand at the corner.  They asked where is the person who ran into this house?  If you don't show that person, we are killing you now.  I said, ok, he is in the house.  
 They said go in, fetch him.  Some of them said, let 
us hold her, so that if we don't get him inside the house we kill her.  
 Some of them were still grabbing me and another group went into the house and they pulled him from underneath the bed and they came with him outside.  These ones were still grabbing me and they let him stand on the stoep, just opposite the door.  And they shoot him, and they shot him once more.  
MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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 These ones who were holding me, left me - I tried to run away - and then I fell.

CHAIRPERSON: Evelyn, do you say they shot him in your presence?

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: Yes, they shot him very close to the stoep.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the people who did this?

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: Yes, Mathloko.  They shot him twice and they left me.  I tried to run away and then I fainted next door and that was it.
 After a while when I recovered and I requested my neighbours to take me to my bedroom, because I didn't lock it.  The people might come and start stealing.   
 When we arrived there, the boy was still lying at the door, dead.  I fainted once more.
 When I recovered they came back with a van to pick him up.  They were just pulling him on the ground, saying he is a dog.  The dog will never be picked up and they threw him at the back of the van.  And they left.  
 I will end there.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask them where they were taking him?

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: No, I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask the police where they were taking your child?

MS GASEBUE: Do you mean when they were putting him in the van?  No, I didn't ask them anything.  I just felt his pulse.  I wanted to feel whether he was alive.  And they just drove off.

DR RANDERA: Ms Mosagedi you say in your statement, you heard gunshots, but I never saw who the opened fire.  But just now when Ms Seroke asked you said, Mathloko shot him.  MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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EVELYN MOSAGEDI: Yes, it is Mr Mathloko who shot him.

MR MALAN: Do you have any idea why Mathloko and Loabeli went after him?   Why the Inkatha people followed him specifically?  What was his activity?  Why would they have done that?   Have you any idea?  Do you have any feeling about that?

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: I don't have any idea, because I was at home by then.  I only saw him running into the house.

MR MALAN: His mother gave testimony here that he was a member of the UDF.  What kind of activities were he involved in?  Any kind of violent activities that you were aware of?  Why did they run him down?  Didn't you get information in the town?  Why did they do it?  What was their motive?  What was the perspective that they had on him?  If you have any idea, could you share that with us please.

EVELYN MOSAGEDI: I don't have any idea.

DR RANDERA: Chairperson, we have one more witness to this very sad and upsetting death.   Herman Mothlale will you please stand and take the oath.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

DR RANDERA: Herman, thank you very much.  It has been a long day again.  I want you just to add to what Ms Gasebue said and Ms Evelyn Mosagedi has said, relating to the day on which Monamodi Gasebue was killed.
 I understand that you were present at a meeting with him and then something happened which made all of you run in different directions.  Can you just tell us what happened?