Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-11

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, if I can just mention, it seems to me that my learned friends did better investigations than us, they got the original, well, a copy of the original, but not the typed one, also available.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is that?  If it is there, it is okay, I was just curious to know whether we do have the original.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson, if I can just show this written document to the witness to identify his signature.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Baloyi, I am going to show you a photocopied document.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I am waiting for that.

MR STRYDOM: The statement that was taken, can you identify your signature, I saw two places where you possibly signed?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I am the one who signed here, not here.  This is my signature and this one too, and this one too.  These ones, no, I don't know these two.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, just for the record, on the first page, numbered 1, Mr Baloyi has indicated that the signature at the bottom of the page is his, but not in the left hand margin; at the bottom of page 2 he has indicated his signature, it is his; the bottom of page 3 he has indicated that it is his signature, but not his signature in the left hand column; and no signature on page 4.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Baloyi, are you happy that that is the statement that was taken from you when Mr Matengane acted as Interpreter?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, those are my signatures.  I cannot account for places where I have not appended my signature.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, the signature that he has admitted, would that be the one where there are just two initials, is it MB?

MR BERGER: Yes, it is the two initials at the bottom of the page.  Nothing in the margins, but all the initials at the bottom of the page, it would appear.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Would you at some point make copies of the other document, I think it is marked, of the copy of the hand-written statement and make it available, perhaps tomorrow morning?

MR STRYDOM: We will do so, I can even do better now, I've got the true original here with me, so I will make copies using this document.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, indeed, would you do that.  Very well.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Baloyi, I want to read to you the first three paragraphs of this document.

CHAIRPERSON: Has anyone checked whether the typed one is an accurate document?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I haven't checked that because I didn't have the original, but I will read from the original.

CHAIRPERSON: It is difficult, we only have CC here which is the copy.

MR STRYDOM: I will compare it Chairperson, and inform the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, so that we don't put to the witness what may not be accurate.

MR STRYDOM: It reads here
"... On the 17th of July 1992 I was in my home, at above address, watching television."

CHAIRPERSON: Do you perhaps have a copy of this for the Interpreters, an extra one?

MR STRYDOM: Yes Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Baloyi, what he is doing now, he is reading from the statement that you are supposed to have made to the Police, do you understand that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: I am not sure if the first paragraph was interpreted, I will just start over.
"... On the 17th of July 1992, I was in my home at the above address, watching television.  The time was 22H20."
	That is twenty past ten.
"...  I heard a noise outside and went to the window.  I saw a group of people carrying television, video's and suitcases.  The group were moving out of the location in the direction of the Faraday Road."
	I see you shaking your head, do you want to comment at this stage?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: If given a chance, yes, I can talk.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, what are your comments?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, what will be helpful to the witness if perhaps, I don't know do you intend reading the whole statement first before getting him to comment?

MR STRYDOM: No Chairperson, I will read portions and ask questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think you should do that.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.   I have read to you this first portion and I saw you start shaking your head.  What is wrong with this statement so far?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I do not accept the word or the name Faraday, there is no Faraday Street in Boipatong.

MR STRYDOM: Apart from that, would you say the rest is in order?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That name is incorrect, therefore I conclude that the person who took the statement must have written all false information.

MR STRYDOM: So because there is one mistake, you say the rest must be false, is that what you are saying?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Faraday is far away.   He cannot bring Faraday to Boipatong, that is not it.

CHAIRPERSON: We understand that, but so that we can move faster, listen to the question and answer the question.  What Counsel is asking you is, simply because there is reference to Faraday Road which is incorrect, are you saying the rest of the statement is incorrect?  Do you understand the question?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, I cannot, Faraday is in Vanderbijlpark and therefore I cannot talk about Vanderbijlpark when I am in Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Answer the question, what he wants to find out is just because Faraday Road is wrong, are you saying the rest of the statement or everything that is in the statement, is wrong?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I will be very, very choosy so that I admit to things that I know.

MR STRYDOM: What is stated here is that the group were moving out of the location in the direction of the Faraday Road.  In relation to your house, would you say moving out would be in the direction of Faraday or not?

CHAIRPERSON: I thought his evidence was that there is no Faraday Road in Boipatong?

MR STRYDOM: Yes, well that is the point, I am not saying - I don't think the statement states it is in Boipatong, it is just in the direction of Faraday.  Can you indicate in relation to your house, where is Faraday, is that outside the township or where is Faraday?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know a road called Faraday?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is this road?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: From the Traffic Department you proceed towards that direction, this one is Frikkie Meyer.

CHAIRPERSON: Frikkie Meyer, yes, and where is Faraday Road in relation to this?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It starts at the circle and proceed towards that direction.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Am I correct in stating that Faraday Road is somewhere close to Boipatong?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is very far.  Faraday is very far.

MR STRYDOM: If you refer to the Traffic Department, do you refer to the testing ground?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is Faraday this side and Frikkie Meyer that side.

MR STRYDOM: Is it close to the testing grounds, because I know where the testing ground is?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The testing ground is nearer, closer to Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: I think what he wants to find out is in relation to the Traffic Department, where is this Faraday Road?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is all close by.

MR STRYDOM: What is more important is that it is stated here that you went to the window because you heard a noise, is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You did not go to the window to go and have a look at the vehicle outside?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, when I heard the noise and I looked out the window, I saw the vehicle parked there.

CHAIRPERSON: I think what he wants to find out is what is it that caused you to go to the window to look outside.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I heard a noise, that is why I went to look out through the window.

MR LAX: The question is what noise did you hear?  What kind of noise did you hear?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It was just people making a noise, I did not understand whether it was people who were singing or what?