Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-13

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Could we get organised?  Mr Mbandazayo, are you ready with Mr King Lebea?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Chairperson, I'm ready.  Can he be sworn in, Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: Before I do so, Mr Lebea, just sit for a second.  The Panel is as yesterday and the legal representatives as well as yesterday.  Mr Lebea, do you feel better today?

MR LEBEA: Yes, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you stand up?  Could you once again give us your full names?

KING LEBEA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Lebea you have heard the first applicant testifying yesterday.  Do you confirm the contents of his testimony and do you also abide by that testimony as far as it relates to you?

MR K LEBEA: Yes, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now just a few aspects, Mr Lebea.  Am I correct - is it correct that you were born on the 14th of March 1973?

MR K LEBEA: Yes, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And is it also correct that you grew up in the Free State?

MR K LEBEA: Yes, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee how far have you gone at school?

MR K LEBEA: I've gone until Standard 6.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now can you tell the Committee when did you join PAC?

MR K LEBEA: I joined PAC in 1989, the 19th of April.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where?

MR K LEBEA: Right here in Bloemfontein at Pelindaba.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who recruited you into PAC?

MR K LEBEA: My brother recruited me into PAC.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who is your brother?

MR K LEBEA: Titus Lebea, the first applicant.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now were you at any stage a member of APLA - Task Force of APLA?

MR K LEBEA: I later joined the Task Force of APLA.

MR MBANDAZAYO: When was that?

MR K LEBEA: It was on the 27th of August 1990.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who recruited you in the Task Force of APLA?

MR K LEBEA: My brother did so.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now did you undergo any training?

MR K LEBEA: Yes, Sir, but it was a short training that lasted only a day.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where was that and when was that?

MR K LEBEA: It was at Pelindaba in Bloemfontein on the 15th of January 1991.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you have heard the testimony of your brother that it was a week after the 15th that you undergo training, which the Member of the Committee, the Chairperson of the Committee estimated to be around 22nd somewhere of January.  Now you are telling the Committee that on the 15th of January you undergo training.  Can you explain that?

MR K LEBEA: Yes, I think my brother may have forgotten some days, it seems he has been twisting the days there so instead of talking about what happened before, he brought it later in.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, who trained you?

MR K LEBEA: Who trained me is the person whom I later knew as Temba Ncapai.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now what name did you know him about before you knew him as Temba Ncapai?

MR K LEBEA: I used to say his name is Sabata.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now let's come to the incident itself.  Can you tell the Committee about the role you played in this whole incident?

MR K LEBEA: Actually the role I played in this incident, I was a gunman and I was tasked to shoot if ever it's necessary.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, continue.  What did you actually do yourself?