Human Rights Violation Hearings — Venda — 1996-10-03

THOMAS MANTHATA: But you had seen one or two who used to move along with him, coming perhaps in and out of the family?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And you go on to say he was innocent.  Now he resisted the torture, he couldn't tell them what was on because he was innocent.  What do you actually mean?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I said, are you saying I said he resisted torture?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I thought I heard you say that - I may be mistaken.

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I said they were torturing him severely.  Yes, he was innocent.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did you understand the motive or the work that the MK cadres wanted to do?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Shortly, what did they say they even for, that is they had come in for?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, MK wanted to start with peace in the land, because then there was no peace.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What would you say to a person who says the MK cadres were about to kill people who were supporting Apartheid at that time?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I will say they never intended killing, they wanted to prevent that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You instructed a lawyer, so you said, can you still remember the name of the lawyer?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, I do remember - Glove.
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THOMAS MANTHATA: Glove?  Did you say Glove?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Presently do you know anything about the children of your brother, are they at school, what are they doing?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: They are schooling.  The other one is in standard 10, the elderly one.

THOMAS MANTHATA: That is here in Venda?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If I understand you well Elizabeth, you talk for the family?  That is on behalf of your brother, perhaps even on behalf of the family, am I correct?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, indeed.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How does your family or what is the thinking within the family, about those people who had treated your brother the way they did?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I am not clear.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I want to say what, as a family, do you think about those people who arrested, detained and even tortured your brother?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: We regard them as ordinary people, because we can't hold any grudges, because they seemed not to know what they were doing then.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So in short, you are no longer scared of them?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: No, I am not fearful of them.  I do grieve them - Ramoswana and Ramaliqela alike.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you Elizabeth.  No further questions.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Elizabeth.  Just before you go - sorry, just before you go - just two questions I want to ask you.
 The first is about your brother on whose behalf you are VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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speaking.  In your statement you say that he once told me that on the day that they took him to the mountain they beat him, they tied him on the tree and the made a fire under the tree to burn his private parts.  And you said that your brother today is useless, it was the word that you used.
 Were you referring to the kind of torture that he experienced - is there a connection between the burning of his private parts and what you were saying about his life presently?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: No, he only told me that they used to take him to the mountain, tying him and putting fire and trying to torture him.

RUSSELL ALLY: Elizabeth, I am going to ask you if you could please, we will try to contact your brother as well, but if you could also tell him to come to the Commission and to make a statement.  And then finally you're speaking about your brother - but what we would like to know is whether anything happened to you as the sister?  Were you ever harassed because of the activities that your brother was accused of being involved in?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I am not clear?

RUSSELL ALLY: Did the police or the security police ever harass you or threaten you?  Did you ever experience anything bad because of the fact that your brother was accused of all of these activities?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: Once again, thanks very much for coming.