Amnesty Hearings — Mmabatho — 1998-09-21

ONTLAMETSE BERNSTEIN MENYATSOE: I was given an R4 rifle and we went into the car and we drove off and we passed by groups of people who were singing songs, screaming viva ANC and down with Mangope.  We did the same, we lifted our arms and called out viva, viva.
	When I arrived at my residential place I took my uniform.  I put it in a bag and when on my way into the car, my landlord told me that I should not come with a police car in his premises because I will land him into trouble.  Well I went into the car and we drove off helping the others to pick up their uniforms as well and we drove back to the headquarters of the police.
	And on our arrival there we went into the barracks to get dressed into our uniforms and thereafter, back to the offices.  One police officer, whose name I cannot recall, called the policemen and explained to them as to what has happened to the police and the armed forces.  And he said that we must stay alert because the AWB can come to the police to take over.  We dispersed and we were just around the TTA yard.
	Between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock in the afternoon we went to the kitchen to have our lunch.  Whilst we were sitting there and having our lunch we heard some firearms shooting outside and I became nervous because I did not know what was happening and as to what is going to happen to us and our dear lives.
	I went outside and I saw the main gate of TTA and there were vans passing by full of white men dressed in khaki and they were armed with guns and I heard a gun shot from those cars and that hit in front of my foot and I landed on the ground.  I was diving for cover.  I crawled to the wall which is the perimeter(?) wall of TTA.  I stayed there and the gun firing was gosrging on.  
	Thereafter I heard people approaching and they were screaming and shaking the gate of the TTA saying that the police must give them the firearms.  When they entered they saw me lying there and they asked me to give them the firearm or else protect them or defend them.  But because I knew what was the policy about the handling of firearms, I refused giving them the firearms but decided to defend them rather.  
	I had no choice because there were so many in number.  I went out with them.  I was in the middle, went across the tar road in front of TTA and I lied in some bushes around there.  After some time I heard these people screaming out loudly, AWB, AWB.  And after sometime a blue Mercedes Benz was approaching and they were shooting and they went past where I was lying and at that time I could not shoot because there were so many people who were in front of me and I did not want to injure them. 
	And I asked them to please stay clear and they did that.  I shot one warning shot in the air, trying to scare these gentlemen in the blue Mercedes Benz., but they continued shooting.  And that is when I saw that this is a war.  And I shot back at them.  As I was shooting I heard somebody screaming saying that they have just shot me.  And as I was looking this person was bleeding on his thigh.  I continued shooting until the Mercedes Benz came to a standstill at the "STOP" next to the TTA and I ran towards it.
	On my way I went past some woman who was lying on her back bleeding in her belly.  And this raised my emotions and I was very hurt and upset by the way that the black nation was being destroyed by these white men.  I was very angry and nervous and hurt.  When I got to these three AWB men I asked them where are they from?  One of them of which I don't recall, as to at which side was he, he answered by saying that he is from Naaboomspruit.  
	I asked again as to what are you doing here and who called you?  The one answered saying, go and ask your State President.  I was very nervous.  But his response or his answer, it  just showed that there is tension, there is war and one called out saying that they want some ambulance and I answered back and said why didn't you bring your ambulance here.  As I was talking to him, one of them moved and as he was moving his hand went underneath and I thought that he was pulling a firearm and I realised now that the trouble had started and then I started shooting them, one by one with my R4 rifle and thereafter I went back into the TTA yard.
	What I am here for today is to ask for amnesty and forgiveness from the family members of Uys, Wolfaardt and Fourie.  It is because I know that it is very painful to lose a husband, a father and a family member, but please pardon me for what I have done.  There was no alternative because I thought that it was a situation of war prevailing.  
	If we can look back, people who were killed in Bophuthatswana who were helpless and who knew nothing about handling firearms were killed and injured here in Bophuthatswana, who have never actually laid their hands on the arms, they have just seen them in the newspapers and in the televisions.  People who were just going about their own daily routines and in their own country were killed, innocent as they were.
	But anyway, Fourie and Wolfaardt and the Uys families must please forgive me for what happened but it happened under a war situation.  It has, it was thought that Sergeant Nare was the one who did these.  And he suffered because of these and him and his family went through all the trouble and he was suspended from his work.  Therefore I saw it necessary for me to come forward to this Commission and say the truth that Nare is not responsible for all these but myself, Menyatsoe.  
	I'm here today because I want to help Nare because he was being blamed for all these.  I am clearing his name and I am here today to tell the whole country that I am the one who killed the three AWB members, your soldiers, Mr Eugene Terreblanche.  I am their killer but I want to tell you this.  You know as well that it was a war and unrest situation and that is why you sent in your soldiers in Bophuthatswana who destroyed and hurt and killed the black people.  And they didn't even show respect towards our people.
	You came here because you knew that you'll just come and kill and you'd never be killed.  But all I want to say to you is that I beg you for forgiveness for what happened to your soldiers.  And again to the family members of the deceased, please forgive me .  There was no other way that I could have done myself, Menyatsoe.  It was a war situation.  Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Mr Menyatsoe, at that time were you a member or a supporter of any political organisation?

ONTLAMETSE BERNSTEIN MENYATSOE: I was a supporter, but because of the fact the I was a member of the Bophuthatswana Police I could not become a fully active member of the ANC simply because Bophuthatswana was against the ANC.  And moreover, being a Bophuthatswana Police was told that he shouldn't be a member of any political organisation, you are a member of the UCDP.

UNKNOWN: The UCDP, which party was that?

ONTLAMETSE BERNSTEIN MENYATSOE: It was the organisation of the former Bophuthatswana regime.

UNKNOWN: And of which party were you a supporter?

ONTLAMETSE BERNSTEIN MENYATSOE: I was supporting the ANC.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HENDRICKSE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Hendrickse.  Mr Van Der Berg do you have any questions to ask the witness?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairperson, Yes.  Mr Terreblanche will ask questions first.

MR TERREBLANCHE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Yes I have a few questions I'd like to ask.  Sir, or Mr Menyatsoe, where were you born and where did you grow up?

ONTLAMETSE BERNSTEIN MENYATSOE: I grew up in Lifurudzi.

MR TERREBLANCHE: I'm asking you if you went to school there and what your training was, what educational level you reached, what standard have you got?

TRANSLATOR: We can't hear the applicant.  Interpretater cannot hear the applicant.