Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-17

MR MALAN: Just one final question, or regarding your final answer, you said at the time of your shooting Nxiweni, Taylor was no longer on the farm.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR MALAN: How much time elapsed between digging the grave and the elimination?  What did you do after you dug the grave?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think Taylor told us after the grave had been dug, that the decision was taken to eliminate him, and when we went to fetch Nxiweni to eliminate him, Taylor drove away.
	That is when we went in to go and fetch him, that is when Taylor left.

MR MALAN: Are you certain of that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is how I remember that.

MR MALAN: Why would he have departed, he helped to dig the grave completely, he stayed there, you took turns, then you go and fetch Nxiweni 60 metres away from where he is about to be buried, and during that time, Botha or Taylor at least left.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Nxiweni was not fetched directly after the grave had been dug.  After the grave had been completed, as far as I can remember, we first cleaned up.  We wouldn't have walked in to the room where Nxiweni was with soiled feet and tell him that we were taking him away.

MR MALAN: And you also wouldn't have left the farm without cleaning yourselves up, so in other words you would have cleaned up twice?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Did you do that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR MALAN: Can you remember that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I can remember that.

MR MALAN: Why do you say that you wouldn't have, your choice of words looks like construction rather than recollection.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I think it may be a construction, but there is no way that one would have gone to the person or left the farm with soil on one's shoes.
	I can't remember specifically that I had a bath before I left the farm.

MR MALAN: Wouldn't Taylor have taken a bath before leaving the farm?  If he were to work with these constructions, because he helped to dig the grave?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR MALAN: So you would all go and clean up first, and then take Nxiweni out for the elimination?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: While you were walking to the grave with him, Taylor climbed into his car?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: What I can remember is that Taylor was not on the farm, that he had already left when we eliminated Nxiweni.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, just in that regard, if you will allow me just a last reference.  In volume 2, page 63, the words that stand here coming from Taylor, are in my submission significant.
	He says, I will read the last bit of that paragraph at page 63 Mr Chairman, he says I cannot remember today who actually pulled the trigger.  It wasn't me, but I admit I was part of the decision to kill him.
	Then Mr Chairman, he says, I do recall that myself and Colonel Botha were definitely present.  It may be that Sam Du Preez and Laurie Wasserman were also present, but I cannot remember whether any other members were indeed present when this incident took place.
	We have the two people here that were actually instrumental in the elimination.  Mr Taylor couldn't remember whether they were there, with respect Mr Chairman.  I just point this out to say that the evidence of Mr Taylor must be regarded in the light of what Mr Wasserman said, and Mr Botha said about his recollection at the time when he completed these documents.
	I just wanted to make that point at this stage.  There are conflicts Mr Chairman, clearly, there are conflicts in recollection.

MR MALAN: Mr Visser, I just don't understand the argument with regard to Taylor's absence or departure.  In order to case light on this issue, because in terms of the evidence we cannot rely on the fact that Taylor had departed.
	When he made this statement, he was in a condition which meant that he could not really stand in for that statement.   But you say Mr Du Preez, that your recollection is that Taylor departed before Nxiweni was eliminated?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now adjourn until 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: (still under oath)

MR VISSER: (continued)  Mr Du Preez, we've got now the third and last incident, and that is the case which was referred to as the kwaMashu unit to which these people belonged to.  After the elimination of Pumeso, we have heard that members of the Security Branch succeeded with the help of informers to make contact with the members of the kwaMashu unit, are you aware of this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, I am.

MR VISSER: Apparently these informants took them into their confidence and agreed with them, that a meeting will take place, it seems to me, at a certain place?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct, yes.

MR VISSER: On the 17th of November 1988,  a report was received from informants and members of the Security Branch then went to the Avoca Bridge between Durban and kwaMashu, is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Were you one of the members of that team?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, it was myself, Botha and Wasserman.

MR VISSER: You found people there or met up with people there.  How many were they?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Three.

MR VISSER: Was it the three that I have just mentioned?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: How many people did you expect?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: We expected four.

MR VISSER: Were they then arrested or whatever you want to call it?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct, we took them to the house of safety.

MR VISSER: Which house is this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It is the house is Verulam where Taylor waited for us.

MR VISSER: Were they then interrogated there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Did they have anything with them?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, they had a carrier bag with limpet mines.

MR VISSER: How many?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Three.

MR VISSER: Limpet mines?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: During interrogation, did they give an explanation for the reason why they had these mines?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, they did give an explanation.

MR VISSER: What was that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That someone dropped it off at their homes, and that they were going to get rid of it at some place.

MR VISSER: Did they tell what happened to this person?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: This person then left to Swaziland.

MR VISSER: You knew better, because of the informants?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And in the interrogation, what you heard - what happened afterwards?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: We interrogated the three persons to who the other member was.

MR VISSER: Did you then try to find out if they had any other weapons?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: Were there any results?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: They gave us the name of the fourth person who went to Swaziland.

MR VISSER: Can you remember that name today?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was Naya Ngema.

MR VISSER: Did you attack them, assault them?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: In the same manner that you did, or was it different, to Nxiweni?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, it was the same way that we assaulted them.  We slapped them and hit them with a fist.