Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-07

MR ZILWA: ....[inaudible] fourth and final applicant, Fundisile Guleni.  Would he please be called to take the oath?

CHAIRPERSON: What language would you prefer to use?

FUNDISILE GULENI: I prefer to use English.

FUNDISILE GULENI: (sworn states)

MR ZILWA: Mr Guleni, is it correct that you come from Port St Johns?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes it's correct, sir.

MR ZILWA: Are you a member of any political organisation?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes I am.

MR ZILWA: Can you list the number of organisations that you are a member of?

FUNDISILE GULENI: I'm a member of ANC, also a member of South African Communist Party and also a member of ANC Youth League.

MR ZILWA: Do you hold any position of leadership in any of those organisations or did you at any stage hold such position?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes I am.

MR ZILWA: What position do you hold?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Presently I'm a Deputy Chairperson of ANC Lusikisiki Region.

MR ZILWA: During the year 1993 when the incident in respect of which you are applying for amnesty occurred, were you holding any official position in any of those organisations you've mentioned?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Zilwa, before you carry on, for what is this applicant making application, for which incident?

MR ZILWA: Thank you for that, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I meant to clarify that.  It will be seen that from the amnesty application which is contained in the papers, there's a number of incidents referred to, but for the purposes of this particular hearing he is applying amnesty for the killing of the Weakley brothers.  Thank you.
	Right, the last question was, for the period in question that is surrounding the time of the killing of the Weakley brothers in 1993, were you holding any position of leadership in any of the organisations you've mentioned?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes I was.

MR ZILWA: What position were you holding?

FUNDISILE GULENI: I was a Branch Secretary of ANC of St John's Town Branch.

MR ZILWA: Were you in the same executive as the applicant Pumelele Hermans, the first applicant here?

FUNDISILE GULENI: In fact Pumelele was not in the Executive Committee of ANC but he was in the executive of ANC Youth League as well as SACP.

MR ZILWA: I see.  Okay, now is it correct that in April, on the 13th April 1993, you were involved in the incident of the killing of the Weakley brothers in Port St Johns?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes it is.

MR ZILWA: Is it also correct that in connection with that incident you were at some stage arrested but you were later released due to insufficient of evidence with regard to yourself?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You said, Mr Zilwa, he's making application for the killing of the Weakley brothers.  Any other application?

MR ZILWA: For the purpose of this particular hearing, you're making an application for amnesty for the killing of the Weakley brothers as well as the injury of one of the persons who was there and the attempted murder of those who were not injured, correct?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes that is correct.

MR ZILWA: Mr Chairman, the point I wanted to make is for purposes of this particular hearing, that is what - yes, thank you.
	Right, now would you tell this Committee in detail your involvement in the incident in respect of which you are applying for amnesty i.e. the killing of the Weakley brothers, the attempted murder of the other people in the car and those who were injured and those who escaped unhurt.  Would you please tell this Committee in detail what happened?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes I can.

MR ZILWA: Please do so?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Immediately after we got information that Comrade Chris Hani was killed we were so disturbed.  I talked it out with Pumelele and whilst we were still confused and having an intention to do something in retaliation of Comrade Chris, the comrades from  Flagstaff arrived having the same idea.  It's then when we began to plan as to what, how are we going to retaliate and as it has already been indicated, after we have agreed that let's use Port St Johns where there were a number of problems seen to be obstacles towards the transformation process.  We proceeded to Majola where we were going to get some firearms because I together with Pumelele were not armed at that time.

MR ZILWA: Okay, let me stop you there for a moment.  Is it correct that before this incident you had been experiencing problems in Port St Johns with regard to some elements, white elements, which you ....[intervention]

MR SMUTS: Mr Chairman, I'm not going to be given an opportunity to cross-examine Mr Zilwa, maybe the witness should give the evidence?

MR ZILWA: Mr Chairman, I believe it is my prerogative to lead the witness the way I want to and if I feel there's something which leaving behind, maybe it is my prerogative to do that?

CHAIRPERSON: No but you can't lead him in such a manner Mr Zilwa.  It has to come from him.

MR ZILWA: Yes, I will rephrase my question.
	Is it correct that some time before this incident you had a problem in Port St Johns which you conveyed to the other members of your structure?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes it's correct, sir.  What happened, we got a number of informations in our office where it was reported that there's infiltration by the right-wingers.  Then we took that information, having not investigated of course, to the higher structure which is sub-regional ANC Youth League.  So we reported that matter and they have given us mandate that we should investigate in details.  Then whilst we have not yet investigated coming up with a concrete thing, this incident occurred.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on, what was the purpose of the further investigations?

FUNDISILE GULENI: The purpose of further investigations ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Was it to establish that there were in fact problems or merely to get the details of the problems?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Ja, in fact it was for the purpose of getting details of the allegations that there's infiltration and also submit report to higher structures of the organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: Of the details?

FUNDISILE GULENI: Yes.

MR ZILWA: Now these people from Flagstaff, how did they get to know about the fact that you had such problems in Port St Johns?

FUNDISILE GULENI: We reported those problems to them that, as it transpired, we are operating under threats at Port St Johns.  Now we fear that at some stage we will come across attacks as it normally happens in other areas of South Africa, we were afraid we would be attacked.  That's why we wouldn't hesitate.  After we got the information we decided to go out to report it to the sub-region so that they get it in time and give us advice if possible.

ADV DE JAGER: So you considered it urgent?

FUNDISILE GULENI: I beg yours?

ADV DE JAGER: You considered it a matter of urgency because you could have been attacked?

FUNDISILE GULENI: At that time we couldn't wait, we could report any information that we received because we knew that the comrades are being killed time and again.

CHAIRPERSON: So it was a matter of urgency as far as you people were concerned?  It had to be attended to without delay?

FUNDISILE GULENI: According to our analysis it was a matter of urgency.

MR ZILWA: Okay please carry on?

FUNDISILE GULENI: And it was on those bases where the comrades from Flagstaff chose Port St Johns as an area where we could carry on with the retaliation of Comrade Chris and we went to Majola with the purpose of getting some firearms from Majola.  We met Comrade Mglese who had to organise these weapons.  They referred us to other two comrades.  Then they preferred to join us and we were on our way to the spot.

CHAIRPERSON: To which spot?

FUNDISILE GULENI: To Mpandi, the coastal area where that incident took place.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we carry on there, get to there, the problems, the right-wing problems, these people, where were they situated?