Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-04

MR COETZEE: Mr Chairman, may I just say something here.  It seems to me that there is a misunderstanding.  What my learned friend, Mr Maritz, was saying was clearly not understood, because we are not talking about evidenciary or probative value here.  We are talking about a submission and he quite rightly, and properly, in our submission, suggested to you that if Mr Varney or anybody else wants to make a submission he should do so at the proper time.  He doesn't have to be here to read his submission.  We can read.  He can hand it up to you and we will all read it and we will make our comments, if necessary, either in writing or verbally.  Now, Mr Chairman, with great respect, I join with my learned friend, Mr Maritz, in saying that there is clear prejudice - there is clear potential prejudice and that's all that's
 /necessary.  The
1B necessary.  The Chair said that there is nothing new in that document.  Well, I don't know, Mr Chairman, but I know one thing and that's that I've got the right to go and study it to make sure for myself whether that is so or not.  Before this is given as a stage-setting ceremony, to call it that for want of a better phrase, by which or in the light of which the evidence is going to be - obviously is going to be presented to you, we have to object to that, Mr Chairman, with great respect.
[Break in recording]

MR LYSTER: We have requested that - it's not within our power - this is a sub-contractor that supplies these things.  We are in the process of trying to put a couple more of these microphones together and that will happen during the course of the afternoon.   Well, it would appear that everything has been recorded so far, except your last remarks, Mr van Willigh.  But we certainly will attempt to get enough microphones to go round.  Please bear with us for a minute.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, I feel obliged at this stage to oppose any further postponement, in the interests of the parties that I represent.  The parties that I represent are in gaol.  It's in their interests that this proceeding runs as quickly as possible.  Also, in regard to the financial constraints placed upon me and my clients in these circumstances, I submit that we proceed as soon as possible.  I cannot see any prejudice by leading Mr Varney's evidence at this stage or his submission at this stage because it is simply a submission and not evidence.  Thank you.

MR STEWART: Mr Chairman, I stand by Mr Wills'
 /submission.
1B submission.

MR LYSTER: In view of the submissions raised, although we do not believe that people would be prejudiced if Mr Varney did continue but, in view of the objections raised, we will stand his submission down until tomorrow morning and we will proceed with the next witness.

MR MACADAM: Mr Chairperson, I will proceed to call Brian Gcina Mkhize.  He is available.  He must merely take the witness stand.

MR LYSTER: Sorry, Mr Varney, you are excused until tomorrow morning.

MR VARNEY: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR MACADAM: Mr Chairperson, may I mention at this stage his evidence will be in Zulu, if that can be borne in mind for interpreting purposes.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, if I could just make a request at this stage.  In view of the lack of electronic equipment at this stage, I am unable to communicate with my witness at this stage.  I would like the opportunity to sit next to him as he testifies if that's at all possible.

MR MACADAM: Yes, Mr Wills, okay, that's fair enough.

MR LYSTER: For those people using earphones, channel 3 you can hear Zulu, 2 English and 1 Afrikaans.
/BRIAN GCINA MKHIZE
1B

BRIAN GCINA MKHIZE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

MR MACADAM: Mr Mkhize, at this stage how old are you?

WITNESS:   I am 31 years old.

MR MACADAM: Is it correct that at a certain stage you were a constable in the South Africa - in the KwaZulu Police, and you were arrested, put on trial, convicted and sentenced for several politically-motivated crimes committed in the Esikhaweni district?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR MACADAM: Now, if you can inform the Commission how - in which area you grew up and attended school.

WITNESS:   ... In Polweni in the New Hanover district, Hammarsdale and Mpumalanga district, Nelspruit and Empangeni.

MR MACADAM: Now, while you were attending school, did you become actively involved in any of the political parties which existed at the time in KwaZulu/Natal?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR MACADAM: Which party did you become involved with?

WITNESS:   At that time it was Inkatha, Freedom for the People.

MR MACADAM: And did you, as a result of that association, become involved with any of the political leaders of that party?  This is while you were still attending school.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR MACADAM: And were you at any stage approached or considered pursuing a career in the KwaZulu Police?

MR WILLS: Sorry, Mr Chairperson, members of the Committee, there seems to be a problem just understanding the way the translation works.  I must note that the communications that I've had with the witness in my position here have all related to the translation.  If I could just have a minute to explain to him how it works.  He's only - he's responding to the questions in English,
 /whilst the
1B whilst the Zulu translation is coming through.  If the committee will just bear with me for a minute.  Sorry, Mr Chairperson, it seems that this translator isn't working.  He is not hearing any Zulu at this stage.  (Pause)   Thank you, Mr Chairperson and members of the committee.  We are ready to proceed.

MR MACADAM: If we could possibly repeat that last question.  Were you at any stage either approached or of your own initiative, did you yourself consider a career in the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was contacted ... (inaudible).  Yes, I was contacted.

MR MACADAM: Could you just clarify for the Commission.  Was the word that you used, "Contacted" or was it, "Persuaded".  I have asked this merely because it appears that there might be an error with translation, if that could be clarified.  I just understood the Zulu to mean persuade and not contact, but if you could just clarify that for the Commission, which word you intended specifically to use.

WITNESS:   I would like to ask the committee to decide whether I was persuaded or I was contacted to come and join.

MR MACADAM: ... [break in recording] ... then to proceed to explain what the circumstances were briefly, which led up to you becoming involved with the KwaZulu Police.

WITNESS:   One of my cousins, who was a member of Mkwamanda (?) in the Inkatha asked me what am I preparing myself to do, since I have already completed my standard 10.  As a person who was waiting for a reply from colleges of education, to which institutions I made applications, I was desperate, looking for work.  This cousin of mine, was Zakhele Crucius Nketle.  He passed away.  He said as a

MR MACADAM: /member of

MR MACADAM: 1B member of Mkwamanda, the central committee of Inkatha Freedom Party, he had been asked by the leader of the IFP, Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi to go and find out or recruit young members - trusted members of the IFP, who wish to be members of the Police Force in KwaZulu/Natal.  As I have said before that I had been waiting for replies of applications that I made and I wanted to be a teacher, I took the opportunity to become a policeman.  I accepted the offer from my cousin to become a policeman.  Even if it wasn't the kind of work that I aimed to continue with, it was better to join the police than to sit down and not do any work, because I was going to get some financial help and also to further my studies or to continue with the field of work that I wanted to do.

MR MACADAM: What sort of steps did you take yourself to become a member of the KwaZulu Police?