Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-30

DANNY RADEBE: When Mbuso was about to be fetched I was fetched at my home with Stick's kombi.  It was myself and Langa, Dingaan.  We went to fetch Mbuso.  I had a firearm, an  AK47.  We took Mbuso from Mkwaie Street.  He was already assaulted when we went to  Mkwaie, when we arrived there.
	I wanted to shoot him there at Mkwaie but the other people said I mustn't kill him there we must take him far away to kill him.  Mbuso requested us not to kill him far away from his home so as to make it easier for his family to get his dead body.  We took him to Xhaba Street.  At least it was nearer to his home.  We took him out of the kombi.  I shot him.  He died.

MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to say or to tell us about the number of times you shot at him?

DANNY RADEBE: Seven bullets, I shot seven times with the AK47.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: Is your client in a position to proceed or does he need a brief adjournment?

MR SIBEKO: That's what I wanted to find out, Mr Chairman.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, I would request that we adjourn a while for this applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take a short adjournment.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Are we in a position to proceed?

MR SIBEKO: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Radebe, I'm just reminding you you are still under oath.

DANNY RADEBE: (still under oath)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibeko?

MR SIBEKO: (Continued)  Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Now Mr Radebe, you said you spent about seven bullets on Mr Mbuso Khambule(?), is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIBEKO: At the time you shot at him, what was your intention?

DANNY RADEBE: My intention was to kill him because he had killed.

MR SIBEKO: Will I be correct to say that it was mostly because the policy or the slogan that the killer must be killed when you decided to kill him?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to tell us as to what happened to the body of Mbuso after you had fired at him?

DANNY RADEBE: Truly speaking I don't know anything about that because after shooting him I ran away.  I don't know what happened to his body.

MR SIBEKO: After you shot at him were you in a position to assess whether he was still alive just before you left or was he already dead?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I could see that he was dead.  The last bullet penetrated his head and I was certain thereafter that he was dead.

MR SIBEKO: I'm under the impression that you are in a position to remember as to the exact parts of his body, as to which parts of his body were affected.  Are you in a position to tell us, besides the last bullet that you've just referred to, exactly where in the body you shot at him?

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Sibeko.  Do you think that detail is necessary?  I'm asking this question because last time when we adjourned he seemed to have been very much emotionally affected by this.  Maybe it could do more harm to him emotionally if one has to go through all those details as to which part of the body was hit by which bullet.  I don't know.

MR SIBEKO: I'll withdraw that question.
	Now the AK47 that you were using, what happened to it?

DANNY RADEBE: I took back to Mtjale Street because it belonged to the Mtjale Street people.

MR SIBEKO: Other than this incident, were you involved in any other incidents of violence?

DANNY RADEBE: No.  I used to be a taxi driver but after work I would go on patrolling with the other people.

MR SIBEKO: During your patrol did you confiscate any weapon from anybody?

DANNY RADEBE: No.

MR SIBEKO: So there are no other incidents wherein you were involved, is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: No other incidents.

MR SIBEKO: Is it correct that you are applying for amnesty firstly, because you were the one who shot at Mbuso and then secondly, of having possessed that AK47 at the time, which was unlawful?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is what I am applying for amnesty for.

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sibeko.  Questions, Advocate Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP

ADV GCABASHE: Mr Radebe, just assist me with one or two matters.  The night you were sitting in the kitchen, the night Lucky was killed, you went home to fetch a vehicle to get Lucky to the hospital.  When you came back you found Mbuso sitting in the kitchen, is that correct so far?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Did you confront Mbuso at all at that point?

DANNY RADEBE: No, I did not talk to him.

ADV GCABASHE: Was there a particular reason for not asking him why he had done that, at that point?

DANNY RADEBE: I said I was afraid, I couldn't even talk properly because my heart was beating so hard.

ADV GCABASHE: But you had definitely seen him at the door and you know that positively he is the one who shot Lucky?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, that is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, Mr Radebe.  Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it correct that both Mbuso and Lucky were in the same unit, Self Defence Unit with you?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And then it appears to be obvious that they must have been known to each other, Lucky knew who Mbuso was and Mbuso knew who Lucky was?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there any problems between the two of them that you were aware of?

DANNY RADEBE: No, I don't know anything about that.

CHAIRPERSON: What kind of firearm did Mbuso use in this incident to shoot Lucky with?

DANNY RADEBE: It was an AK47.

CHAIRPERSON: Now from what you could observe, did Mbuso appear to be normal on this incident or did you detect anything abnormal about his behaviour apart from now shooting?

DANNY RADEBE: He was normal.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any clue why Mbuso shot Lucky?

DANNY RADEBE: No, I don't have a clue.

CHAIRPERSON: Within the unit, have you ever had other problems with Mbuso before this incident, this shooting incident?

DANNY RADEBE: No, there were no problems.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Sibeko, re-examination?

MR SIBEKO: There's one aspect, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Radebe, Mr Patrick Radebe told us about the threats or harassment made by one, Ntlantla, who happens to be Mbuso's brother, have you experienced the same from the said Ntlantla?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to tell us exactly what happened between yourself and Ntlantla when such threats or harassments were made?

DANNY RADEBE: When Ntlantla - Ntlantla used to say a lot of things when he sees me.  He used to tell me that he will never rest until I am dead.  Every time he used to utter such things.  Even now I'm not free wherever I go because of him.  I would request you here to give me a solution, tell me what to do about this situation because this has been happening for some time now.

MR SIBEKO: Up to this stage you haven't done anything to him, is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Will you please repeat your question?

MR SIBEKO: Up to this stage or up to today you haven't done anything to Ntlantla, is that correct?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, I have done nothing to him.

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sibeko.
	Mr Radebe, was Mbuso a comrade?

DANNY RADEBE: Yes, he was a comrade.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Radebe, thank you for testifying, you are excused from further attendance, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED