Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-11-16

CHAIRPERSON: The applicant is still under oath to tell the truth.  Does he understand that?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: (s.u.o.)
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN RENSBURG
	Mr Munyai, can you start off by telling us what is your date of birth please?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I was born on the 25th February 1965.

MR VAN RENSBURG: If I can refer you to paragraph 5 of the first page of your application it is stated there that your date of birth is the 21st February 1972?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Those are the years I've used while I was arrested.  During those days I used those years so that they must make my sentence to be a little bit low.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Are you saying that you lied on this application form?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I did, I did lie.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And now except for paragraph 5 where else on this application form have you lied?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: There's no other place where I have lied.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Are you sure about that?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I'm sure about that.

CHAIRPERSON: So you decided to tell the truth in the other places?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I've decided to tell the truth in other places.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you think you needed to lie in the one paragraph?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: It's the years I used while I was arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: We're quite aware of that, I'm asking you why?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: It's because during those days when a person was still under the police in the past if you give low years which are not many then if they think that you're still a youth then I think if they will think you are young then they will give you a light sentence.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes that's very clever but in the court did you tell the court that you killed these people or you participated in the killing?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I did agree that I've killed.

CHAIRPERSON: So you pleaded guilty in the trial?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: No I didn't find myself guilty.

CHAIRPERSON: In the court did you tell them that you were guilty, that you did kill these people?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: In court I agreed that I participated in the killing but when I was asked whether I'm guilty or not I said no, I'm not guilty.

CHAIRPERSON: So even in the court the age is the only thing you lied about?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr van Rensburg?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Chairperson.
	The reason why what you have supplied for giving your age or your date of birth as 1972 you said that you used that date because you wanted to get a lighter sentence.  Okay but surely you agree then that that argument and the reason for lying and using that date is not relevant for the purposes of the application for amnesty, don't you agree?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Okay now tell us why did you lie in the application for amnesty?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: In the application I don't think I lied but the people who assisted us in filling the forms when we sent them to Cape Town were using years which were appearing in the requisition which is the one which is in the application.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Are you now saying that you didn't see that they used the wrong date and that the date was just copied from another document?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: When the forms were sent to Cape Town they were not in our possession, they were in the hands of my representative who maybe it didn't come to his or her mind to question me about it.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Is it not your signature on the end of that document on the third page?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes it's my signature.

MR VAN RENSBURG: So Mr Munyai, when you were consulted in respect of this application did you put all your trust in your representatives to properly make the application?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I put all my trust in my representative.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you speak or read English?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I can read.

CHAIRPERSON: How well?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Sometimes I can but sometimes I cannot even hear what's being said.

CHAIRPERSON: When you signed this document did you read  through the document before you signed it?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I did.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were aware when you signed it that the wrong date of birth was in it?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: In terms of the year to tell the truth I didn't take that into consideration while I was reading it through because it was done in a hurry.

CHAIRPERSON: Now that's what I'm asking you did you read through the document properly before you signed it?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I did proof read but maybe I didn't understand the English well.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I'm talking about whether you understood it well or whether you briefly read through it, were you aware that your application form is going in with the wrong date of birth?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I didn't take that into consideration, I didn't identify that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Chairperson.
	You see Mr Munyai, the problem that we're now sitting with is that you are here today in order to confirm also what you have said in this application form.  Now what I want to know from you and you've got to confirm that, are the rest of the information on this application form correct or not and do you know what is in that form or not?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg, I think we'd better define what the application form is.  How far are you referring to.  Did you include the annexures or only the roneoed form?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes I will at this stage also include the annexures as well.  Can I put that to him?  Thank you Chairperson.
	Yes in this regard I want you to look at the application form through pages 1, 2 and 3 and also the annexures annexed thereto, pages 4, 5 and 6 and I want you to confirm that you know what is in those forms and annexures and that it is the truth?

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell me something, was this part of the document not drawn to your client's attention?

MR NDOU: Thank you Chairperson.  In fact what transpired was apparently a Committee was formed which did the applications and sent some of the documents through with this attachment.  When one goes through all the applications one finds this similar document in them but now in general when you speak to them they do confirm some of the contents.  Now the only problem that I have is to whether pertaining to specific incidents and pertaining to specific points, some people do agree with what's written in the document, some are not aware of the contents but in general, that the document was put in almost each and every application.

CHAIRPERSON: I accept that but during your consultations?

MR NDOU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not asking for what answers he may have given you.

MR NDOU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was this not part of the documentation that you dealt with when you consulted with him?

MR NDOU: Yes I think what he's trying to go through the document to check with what he agrees with and what he doesn't agree with.

CHAIRPERSON: No, but at that time when you consulted with him was he not in a position to do so?

MR NDOU: Yes, he had the document.

CHAIRPERSON: Then I can't understand why he's having to do that now?

MR NDOU: No, I think he's through with it now.

CHAIRPERSON: Because it takes up time.  We've got to sit here until he's completed it.

MR NDOU: Yes maybe the problem stems from the fact that - I suggest that my learned friend just puts specific questions because it's very, very difficult if I say do you agree with the whole document, it will be very, very difficult to say I agree with the document unless I'm shown this specific point.

CHAIRPERSON: That was not his question, his question was or the effect of the question was do you know that part of the document then he reads through it in order to be able to say yes or no.