Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: No, they did not.  I went to an ANC Attorney but he didn't do much for me.

ADV SANDI: What did he do for you?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Not much.

ADV SANDI: Who is he?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Mxoli.

ADV SANDI: Is he also in Fort Beaufort?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Do you have any request which you would like to make in connection with this matter?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Well, I am unemployed and I am unable to work.

ADV SANDI: ; Is that all you would like to say?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: They said that - after the assault when - after my assault I ran to the one yard and after that they assaulted somebody else, gorged out his eyes and left him there for dead.

ADV SANDI: Who was that?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: They say he was Monelwya.

ADV SANDI: Monelwya who?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: I don't know his surname.

ADV SANDI: Are his relatives still in Fort Beaufort?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Is that all that you would like to say Mr Ngidla?

NKOSIYABO DAVID NGIDLA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Thank you very much Mr Ngidla.  Mr Mali, you are here to talk about yourself?

ENOCH MALI: Yes.

ADV SANDI: About what happened to you on the 7th of February 1987?

ENOCH MALI: That's right, yes.

ADV SANDI: What happened to you sir, on this day?

ENOCH MALI: On the 7th of February 1987 I went to visit another township.  I came back at about half past five.  When I arrived at home, my brother from King William's Town was at home.
 We were drinking coffee at the time and we were having supper.  Two boys came, they went through our yard.  I greeted them and then they left through the back yard.
 We went outside with my brother, we sat outside in the yard.  From my gate to the house it is about 15 metres.  At about half past seven to quarter to eight, it was a nice weather, we were talking, chanting with my brother, we saw that there were people coming wearing light caps.
 My younger brothers were there at the time together with their friends, we were sitting outside.  When they were passing through my gate, one of them said this is the house, this is the house.  I said to these men, don't stand up, I am the owner of this yard, I want to see where this Amangundwana are going.

ADV SANDI: Are these the municipality police?

ENOCH MALI: Yes, they were the municipality police, there were three of them, together with certain, some young men.

ADV SANDI: Did you notice who these municipality police were?

ENOCH MALI: I found out who they were after they shot me.  I was given their names by the people who knew them, because I did not know the people from Fort Beaufort.  What happened is that they went in the yard.
 We looked at them, I told the people whom I was sitting with not to do anything, I told them I would ask them one
question.  They went through the gate.  One of them went next to the toilet, he had a gun with him.
 The second one went to another corner.  They shot, one stood next to another corner.

ADV SANDI: Did they have rifles?

ENOCH MALI: Two of them had rifles, the other one had a 9 mm, they short man.  I asked them who are you looking for.  I asked them three times, they did not answer me.  The other one, said stop pointing a gun to me.
 I told them, I asked them who they were looking for and then I said to them, take whoever you want.  They did not say anything.  There is a fence in my backyard.   I went on the other side of the fence, I told them to leave my yard because they have no right to come in my yard and to point guns at people.
 I told them that is against the law.

ADV SANDI: One of them ended up shooting you?

ENOCH MALI: Yes, the one who was at the back, because I chased away the two.  I went to Selma Yoyo, he had a cigarette in his mouth, I took out that cigarette.   I didn't want to hit them at the time, you had to be tricky.
 They were tricky, you had to use your mind in dealing with them.  I knew that these people were coming for me.

ADV SANDI: Were you shot by Yoyo?

ENOCH MALI: No, I took him out of the gate together with Kekane Mathe.  The short one came towards me, luckily one of my younger brothers' friends Rangule managed to come to stand next to me.  He is studying in Cape College.
 I told this people to go out of the gate, I took out a knife, then pulled it out and pointed it at my head and pointed it down and fired a shot and it struck me in my hip
and in ten seconds, my shoe was filled with blood.

ADV SANDI: How many times did he shoot you?

ENOCH MALI: He shot me once and then he ran and the ones on the outside were shooting into the air because my daughter came running out of the house when she heard the shots.
 And these gentlemen, she came out of the house wanting to know what's happened and these gentlemen that I was with, scattered and I stood there alone.  And then another brother came and they went home.

ADV SANDI: Mr Mali, excuse me the car in which you were taken to hospital, whose car was it?

ENOCH MALI: It was a car belonging to the Chawe clan family and my brother went to one of the neighbours and got him to take me.

ADV SANDI: Before this incident took place, did anything else happen?  Did you ever have an argument with the person who shot you, was there an argument between your family and his?

ENOCH MALI: Up to this day, I don't know why those people shot me because they ran away that day and up to this day, I don't know where they are.

ADV SANDI: did you go and make a statement at the police?

ENOCH MALI: I was admitted to hospital - at about half past nine these police, the people, senior police officers came, they had on shorts and vests, it is not clear whether they were bullet proof vests or not, they knew that I was the organiser of the workers at that stage.
 What happened was these people then came in and said to the Doctor, we want this man.  I looked at them and said I am not talking to you.  I was taken to a single ward because
of my nerves.  What happened was I stayed there the Sunday and my family came to see me and at about half past two the investigators came, Deon Ferreira and this Makalima.

ADV SANDI: Were they conducting the investigation?

ENOCH MALI: Yes, they came to ask about this.  At court I was told to go on the 26th of February after I had been shot on the 7th of February, I went there and sat there all day and I wasn't called.
 Then I wanted to know what was happening because nobody is paying any attention to me, they said it had been postponed until the 21st of March.  It was postponed again to April and in April the same thing was done, it was postponed to April, the 27th.

ADV SANDI: And all these times, your name was not called?

ENOCH MALI: No, I saw this guy who had shot me, once and he was put in another corner because they used the system where he was told that he shouldn't see me.

ADV SANDI: Who put him into that corner, who told him to sit elsewhere?

ENOCH MALI: I just want to point out that these people would get into these caspers, disguised with balaclavas solely for the purpose of harassing people and hurting people.
 In May when I went back to court, I got there and found a slim, young man, I don't know if he was the Prosecutor.  I said to him,  listen I've been here long, what about my case and he said, what happened to you?  I said no this is the fourth time I've been here, I said, no this is the fourth time that I've come here.
 And this gentleman never answered me and he said, look I will ask these gentlemen.  They have an office around the
corner and they went around the corner and eventually I went to them and wanted to know what have you decided and they said the man who shot you, has shot himself.

ADV SANDI: Who is he?