Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-08-12

ADV POTGIETER: Did they then in fact stop or Van Wyk did he then stop harassing you after you saw the lawyers, so you called in the lawyers?  How did you get rid of this Van Wyk eventually?

MR STUURMAN: Can you repeat your question, sir?

ADV POTGIETER: How did eventually get rid of this harassment , how did you put an end to it?

MR STUURMAN: Finally a certain chap who's name I have forgotten, intervened and wrote a letter to Oudtshoorn to their offices so they stopped harassing me.  I think he was also demoted.

ADV POTGIETER: Now it's quite an incredible - a  [indistinct]  experience that you've - you've told us about started in Std 7 until you were eventually shot on New Years day - New Years morning.  Do you know who is responsible for the shooting?

MR STUURMAN: I got to know after I had been discharged that it was Dotho Shawi,  Toto Saisy.

ADV POTGIETER: And have you made any case against him?

MR STUURMAN: Yes, but I didn't lay charge to Toto but the lawyers sued the Minister of Law and Order.

ADV POTGIETER: And was that successful?

MR STUURMAN: I would say it succeeded, but in a very difficult way because I had to pressurise then, I had to phone then.  I can't even say that this the lawyer that actually represented me because I would be told that this minute my lawyer is Christine Burger, the next minute is Patricia-Lee - Patricia Meyer is not there.  They are going to get me another lawyer, so I never even when to court.  
 Then I heard later on that my other - my lawyer was Mashemu Wetly and she - I was offered a certain amount of money and I should -  that they asked me to accept it.  And then I did accept it because I was behind at school, I had arrears I had to pay for catering, for tuition and she also deducted money 2 - 2,5.
Ntshukulwana too they had all had claims for deforming their names I don't know how because James had written a letter without my concerns and this letter was sent to me that certain people were claiming 3,000.  So the money I received had been deducted - was just a remainder of all these deductions.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay, now the injuries that you sustained in the shooting incident, which were those injuries to what part of the body was that?

MR STUURMAN: Both legs.

ADV POTGIETER: Where you shot in both legs?

MR STUURMAN: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: What has been the consequence of that, are you - can you walk normally, can you play sport - what - what was the consequence of the injury to both legs?

MR STUURMAN: I cannot walk normally, I can no longer run, even the soccer I used to play I can no longer play it.

ADV POTGIETER: How far did you eventually get at school?

MR STUURMAN: I'm a University of Western Cape drop out.

ADV POTGIETER: And when did you leave the University?

MR STUURMAN: I left the University in 1992 - no I didn't go back in 1993.

ADV POTGIETER: And what were you studying at that stage?

MR STUURMAN: I was doing BA in Education.

ADV POTGIETER: And why did you leave University?

MR STUURMAN: I had financial problems and academic problems as well.

ADV POTGIETER: The academic problems is a result of that - of what was that?

MR STUURMAN: Yes, yes even the money I got it late because it's very difficult to study - to study freely when we do have books, you'll be knowing that you are not going to get anywhere.

ADV POTGIETER: So it eventually came back to the financial problem that - that is really the - was that the main reason why you had to leave?

MR STUURMAN: Yes, it's like that.

ADV POTGIETER: You - you were otherwise progressing normally through the - the course that you were doing?

MR STUURMAN: I was not doing well in all the courses but I passed.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you - do you intend going back to complete your studies?

MR STUURMAN: Yes, I will be very please of going back because there is nothing I can do except that I go back to school.

ADV POTGIETER: At the moment what do you actually do?

MR STUURMAN: Yes, I have a part time job and I go there once or twice a week to work.

ADV POTGIETER: Is there any other way that you feel that the injury that you have sustained had effected you?

MR STUURMAN: A lot of damage was cause because I used to - I used to have a lot of friends.  I used to run all over but now I'm lacking behind.  It's very tough, I can't walk freely with them.  I am now isolate.

ADV POTGIETER: Is there anything else to which you want to draw our attention, any thing else that you want to tell us or ask us?

MR STUURMAN: My request would be if there is any means I would be very grateful I could go back to school and it this case - and if the amount I owe at school could be settled because my - both my parents are pensioners and they are unable to pay what I owe the University.  And even - it's very difficult to get the disability grant because the doctor who examined me said I could work, then it's only the second doctor who sanctioned that I could get it.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay, thank you very much for that full account, Mr Stuurman.  I thank you for giving evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any?

<UNKNOWN>: You now say there was some money that you got, how much was it?

MR STUURMAN: I got in fact this money originally was R60,000-00, I've got written statement to that effect.  Then it went down to R21,000-00 so I got R21,000-00 that was after all the deductions that I cannot tell what they were for.  Some moneys for the lawyers, Du Toit deducted 3 comma something Rands.

CHAIRPERSON: Sipiwo we thank you as I said to most of you and I say we are also interested in your as the youth even the contribution that has helped and made us to be where we are.   We therefore thank you heartedly and we're going to investigate exactly how much you got and why this money had to be reduced to that amount you received.  And we will also see to it whether you could get some help so that you could go back to school, so I thank you.
 We - we have just one more witness to take but we are going to take a short break because our - the interpreters and I think everybody would like to stretch a bit.  So if we can break now and come back at  four.  
Order please, order.