Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1998-09-07

CHAIRPERSON: I wish to identify myself and would ask my colleagues and the different representatives to do the same.  I'm Judge Ronnie Pillay.

ADV MOTATA: I'm Advocate John Motata.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I'm Ms Khampepe.

ADV STEENKAMP: I'm Andre Steenkamp.

MR KOOPEDI: I am Brian Koopedi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi, you are appearing for the applicants?

MR KOOPEDI: That is indeed so, I'm appearing for all four applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp, you are appearing as Evidence Leader?

ADV STEENKAMP: Yes, Mr Chairman, and also on behalf of the victims, in the Katlehong incident and the Wimpy attacks.  As you wish Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any other representatives?

ADV STEENKAMP: No, Mr Chairman, no further representatives.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Then we can proceed.

MR KOOPEDI: As it pleases the Committee.  There is something which one wishes to raise in limine, and I will ask the indulgence of the Committee.  Two of our application forms were not attested to.  If the Committee will allow me, I would wish to address that with each applicant as he starts.

CHAIRPERSON: Why can't it be attested to now?  Why can't it be signed now?

MR KOOPEDI: We do not have any problem with signing that now, but because it was not done timeously, one thought it would be proper to raise it in this forum and do it correctly.  We have discussed this and do not have a problem with signing them now.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi, are you saying it is not attested to or not deposed to?  Is it not signed by the person who made it?

MR KOOPEDI: The applicants have signed but they were not signed before a Commissioner of oaths.

CHAIRPERSON: If during one of the adjournments they are willing to confirm that that is their signature, then it can be attested to.

MR KOOPEDI: As it pleases, we will do that, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any objections to that, Mr Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: No, objections, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Chairman, our first applicant is here, Mr Sigasa.  Could we have him sworn in?

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, his application appears in the bundle, pages 21 till 27.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sigasa, do you have any objections to the taking of the oath?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Which language do you prefer to use?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: English.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you quite sure?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: Ja.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you not be more comfortable with any of the vernacular?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: My submission is done in English.

CHAIRPERSON: It doesn't matter, I need to know that you are comfortable.

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: I'm very comfortable.

CHAIRPERSON: In English?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: In English, yes.

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: (sworn states)

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Sigasa, you are an applicant in this matter, is that correct?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: You have prepared a statement to present, to read to the Honourable Committee Members, in support of your amnesty application, is that correct?

ERNEST PHUMUZI SIGASA: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Will you please proceed.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Koopedi, do you have copies of the statement he is about to read for the benefit of the members of the Committee?

MR KOOPEDI: We had thought that as usual we would find the photocopying facilities here.  We worked until very late last night and unfortunately we have not yet been able to make copies but as soon as we have made copies, our intention is to submit that but for the moment, if the Committee Members will bear with us, we do not have enough copies to give to the Honourable Committee Members and my learned friend on the other side.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.