Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

MR FRANZSEN: And then we just moved up to the - where the car went slower, and we moved off the road on the right-hand side, and then I was looking to the back to see what was going on, and I saw the two people coming - running towards the vehicle from the bottom side, from the junction.

MR PRIOR: Can you say whether anymore shooting occurred whilst these two people were running towards you?

MR FRANZSEN: There were more shooting, yes, as they were running towards the vehicle.  As I was looking in front of me, I saw the one black man in front of the car, standing right in the front of the - at the bonnet of our vehicle, pointing a 9mm pistol at us, and at that junction I was - I ducked again onto the seat when I heard the shot went off, and that is when Mr Maarten was shot through the finger.  And then he said we had better run, we must get out and we must run away.  So from there he went out of the car, went around the vehicle, I didn't know he was shot at that point, and then I followed him, left the door open to keep the door between me and the guy with the pistol, so I went on my - on my hands and feet, I went around the vehicle to keep the vehicle between me and the guy that was shooting, and I went for the fence and went over the fence and then we just ran off into the field.  As the shots were firing, I was just rolling and going off like we were trained in the Army.

MR PRIOR: To avoid being shot?

MR FRANZSEN: To avoid being shot.

MR PRIOR: Do you know what happened to Mr Maliehe?

MR FRANZSEN: Afterwards, when we - I just saw him behind me, but afterwards we, in the conversation he said he thought, okay the same thing is going to happen to him, he will also have to flee for his life, and then he followed exactly the same as what I did, he did the same thing.

MR PRIOR: So, in other words, were you aware of him following you in the same direction as you were running away from the scene?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, he went in the same direction.

MR PRIOR: But, was he behind you, or ...(intervention)

MR FRANZSEN: He was behind me, yes.

MR PRIOR: When you got away from the scene, did the shooting stop, that was the shooting in your direction?

MR FRANZSEN: They were shooting until we reached the second fence and we went over the fence, then the ground was going down, so they couldn't see us anymore, and then the shooting stopped.

MR PRIOR: And did you see Mr Maarten at that stage had an injury?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, that was just as we got over the second fence, he was talking to me.  He said to me "I've been shot", and I just said to him "keep on going".

MR PRIOR: Did you notice his injury, can you just tell us?

MR FRANZSEN: I could see his injury at the back and then as he turned around, I could see it was in the front as well, just below the belt it came out, and he had blood on his shirt.

MR PRIOR: So you noticed his injury from his back, and had exited just under his belt in the front?

MR FRANZSEN: In the front, yes.

MR PRIOR: And you say his finger had been shot?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, his finger was shot.

MR PRIOR: Was it shot off, was it just cut, or what?

MR FRANZSEN: No, just took off the nervous system and the fingernail from the pinkie and the ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: You indicate the left hand.

MR FRANZSEN: The left hand, yes.

MR PRIOR: So you say his pinkie - was the top of his pinkie taken off?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, the nail part.

MR PRIOR: The nail and part of his ring finger?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, that's correct.

MR PRIOR: Did - I understand that Mr Maarten, that's Mr Deon Maarten, he subsequently died in a motor accident, can you confirm that?

MR FRANZSEN: That is correct, yes.

MR PRIOR: Did you know him?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, I knew him well.

MR PRIOR: How long after this incident did he die?

MR FRANZSEN: That was about three years after the incident.

MR PRIOR: I see, just one last aspect on Mr Maarten, did he go - did he receive medical treatment for his injury?

MR FRANZSEN: Lots of times he was in and out of the hospital having operations on his left hand, and eventually they put off the ring finger.

MR PRIOR: Did they amputate his finger?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, amputated it.

MR PRIOR: Did you know if Mr Maliehe was injured in any way?

MR FRANZSEN: No, he was uninjured as I was uninjured.

MR PRIOR: So you and he were uninjured?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, both of us.

MR PRIOR: Alright, once the shooting had stopped were you able to - did you hear anything further, or were you able to see anything from your position as to what happened to Mr Smit?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, as we were carrying on moving away from the scene we went below the dam that was just to the, also to the left of the road and we heard a final shooting going on, and then the car burning.  Then we saw the smoke in the window just coming out in the sky.

MR PRIOR: Were you able to reach help at that stage, did you get to a farmhouse or a farm?

MR FRANZSEN: No, we were not close to any farm, we were moving in the field and going up to where we could meet the road again.  I was actually - we were thinking of going to the farmhouse there, but I said it was too close to the shooting and maybe there's some more members of whoever shot at us - maybe took over the farm and they were hiding there as well waiting for their buddies to come along.

MR PRIOR: Alright, eventually I take it, you got help and assistance and so forth.

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, the Police came by and they picked up there.

MR PRIOR: Are you unable then, as I understand your evidence, to say what precisely happened to Mr Smit?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, we actually thought maybe he was thinking for himself to spread the fire, then he went maybe another way.  That's what we were thinking at some time till we got back to the scene.

MR PRIOR: Alright, did you go back to the scene?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, the Police took us back to the scene and we were waiting there for the ambulance to arrive.

MR PRIOR: And did you see Mr Smit there?

MR FRANZSEN: I could see him lying there, I was - I lost my watch and everything and I was looking for it, so I saw him lying on the grass.

MR PRIOR: I just - just for completeness sake, I'll show you photograph 10 of bundle "B".  Point "G" on photograph 10, is that more or less the position you found Mr Smit?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And when you had moved out of the vehicle towards the fence, did you move more or less in that direction?

MR FRANZSEN: More to the corner of where the fence made - had a corner where ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: To the left or right of the photograph?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, if you look at photograph - there towards the guy sitting on the right-hand side.

MR PRIOR: So you moved from the back of the vehicle behind the person crouching at point "G"?

MR FRANZSEN: That's right.

MR PRIOR: And Mr Smit, was he there at that stage, or not?

MR FRANZSEN: No, I've got no idea where he was stage ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: Or how he got there?

MR FRANZSEN: No.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  There's just one last aspect, Mr Franzsen, how long had you been working in Sterkspruit for Frasers?

MR FRANZSEN: Before or after?

MR PRIOR: Before this incident.

MR PRIOR: Before the incident, okay, I started there on the 20th of January '92.

MR PRIOR: So you had only been there two months, roughly?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And Mr Smit, do you know how long he had been Manager at Sterkspruit - at the Frasers Furnishers?

MR FRANZSEN: I think also same as what - I think December '91.

MR PRIOR: Where you aware at that time of any problems regarding your safety or the people working in Sterkspruit safety, particularly the white people?

MR FRANZSEN: No, we had no idea what's going to happen there, because everybody at the shop were very friendly and nobody had indicated anything that there is danger, or has pointed out anything out to us there, nothing.