Special Hearings — Health Sector Hearings — 1997-06-17

WENDY ORR: I realise that it's impossible for you to answer all these questions now, and I apologise that the questions weren't sent to you sooner, but Dr Ramashala who was given the very difficult task of composing questions around your submission has been away in Geneva and only returned recently.
 I do want to express concern, however, that an organisation which has gone through the process from November last year with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and all the other organisations which agreed to participate, a process which is meant to look at human rights abuses which occurred in the field of medicine at the perpetration of collusion with prevention of and resistance to, presents us with a submission which does not once mention the term human rights.  I find that worrying.
 I also find it deeply distressful that you can listen to the testimony of a young man like Sean, who has been through the most horrendous experiences, for which he was not adequately prepared and from which he was not adequately debriefed, and his experience is not unique, I have spoken to a number of conscripts who were given no debriefing, I am deeply concerned that you can listen to someone like him and say you feel proud.  I listen to someone like him and feel horrified and ashamed.
 I trust that you will give due attention to the questions that Advocate Potgieter and Dr Ramashala have posed and that we will have an opportunity to speak again about your further responses.
 I want to say thank you to those of you who have stayed here this long.  I want to say thank you to you gentlemen for coming from Pretoria.  I trust that you will be staying for tomorrow's proceedings, particularly for the session which looks at the way forward.
 I would now like to ask Glenda Wildschut to close off for us.

GEN M KNOBEL: Dr Orr excuse me.

WENDY ORR: Yes.

GEN M KNOBEL: You made a remark which I really feel I should respond to, because you certainly did not understand what I said when I said I was proud.  I am proud of every Medic who worked in the Medical Service and I made a written comment on Sean's evidence of this morning, and if you will allow me I would like to read it to you.  I wrote the following
"I would like to add my appreciation to that of the TRC for the courage and the willingness of Sean to give evidence at this hearing.  I found his evidence to be honest and genuine of how he experienced his period of national service in the South African Medical Service.  I also share the concern expressed by some of your Commissioners with regard to a number of issues that he raised.
 There are, however, a number of impressions and perceptions that are incorrect and that could be explained.  I would like to request the TRC to allow me and my Headquarters to examine in detail all the aspects of his testimony in an effort to clarify these aspects that are incorrect and to confirm those that are correct.
 With regard to his final recommendation request to the TRC for the establishment of a Council of Post-Traumatic Syndrome I would like to support this concept.  
 Indeed the South African Medical Service had recognised this need in 1987, as I have indicated in my submission, and in fact launched a number of initiatives to deal exactly with this need with respect for the creation of a memorial where such post-traumatic stress syndrome cases could mourn and commemorate with the families and friends, there is already such a memorial standing in front of 1 Military Hospital.
 I find this also in harmony with what took place in the Defence Force when I took over command and when we started with the whole development of Project Curamus and everything that has stemmed out of that.
 One of the elements that was addressed was the erection of the monument at 1 Mil which I have just mentioned.
 I have arranged with Glenda already to provide us with the detailed testimony of Sean so that we can examine any of the issues that needs attention.  I have also invited Sean personally to visit my headquarters so that we can discuss some of the ideas that he has expressed".
So please when you say that I have indicated that I am proud, I certainly did not mean it in the way that you have apparently taken it up.

WENDY ORR: Thank you General Knobel.  Please just take into consideration as well that Sean is one of thousands.

GEN M KNOBEL: I know.

WENDY ORR: Glenda.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I just need to say thank you to General Masuko and General Knobel and Brigadier van Rensburg for coming today.  And to all of you who have been here we have been through a long gruelling day.  We have heard testimony that has made us sad, made us disappointed, made us ashamed, testimony that has also made us happy and proud, and hopefully we will take into account the spirit in which this hearing has been conducted today.
 The hearings today and tomorrow are a genuine attempt for us to look very critically and very squarely at our past so that we can ensure that this is never ever repeated again.
 Thank you very much for coming, and thanks for your patience and your tolerance.  It's been a long day but we hope that you have a relaxing evening and that you come back tomorrow morning refreshed at 08H30 so that we can start early and finish the submission for the rest of the day.  Thank you very much to everyone.

WENDY ORR: Also just to announce that the revised programme for tomorrow is available outside the doors, and 08H30 is when we start.
HEARING ADJOURNS