Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — UNKNOWN

MR VALLY: Let's go on. We are now dealing with the ANC conflict with the Inkatha Freedom Party. I first want to deal with the conflict during the 1980's, and this was primarily between Inkatha and the UDF. We note what was said yesterday by Mr Mbeki that there was never an ANC plot at national level to kill Mr Buthelezi, and when they were aware of a plot at lower level they immediately stopped it.
But I want to quote some statements made in ANC magazines. For example in the MK journal, Dawn, in 1983 in response to the killing of students at Ngoya the following was said, I quote
"Gatsha and his ilk are on the same side of the battle lines as the murderers of Mxenge and countless others. Let those who excel at swinging the two-edged sword for the enemy be warned. The strong of popular patience is over-strained and the slightest swish will snap it, unlatching the sluice of popular anger. As for us the combat ranks of our people's army we remain committed to an unyielding offensive against the oppressor. We are prepared to break through this barricade, right to the seat of racist power and feed it to the flames of revolution. To battles comrade! To battles! Death to the puppets!".
In the African Communist of 1986 and I quote
"It is no accident that in the eyes of the people Buthelezi has come to be identified with the enemy whose stand on the armed struggle and sanctions he supports..."
and further on they go on,
"Buthelezi should be reminded in the eyes of the people whose cause he is betraying he is a suitable case for treatment".
These are just an example, I mean you will know many more examples of statements made regarding Mr Gatsha Buthelezi, now could these statements, oh I beg your pardon, Mr Mangosuthu Buthelezi, could these statements not be construed by supporters of the ANC or UDF as a call to see both Mr Mangosuthu Buthelezi and Inkatha as the enemy and thus as legitimate targets?

PREMIER MATTHEWS PHOSA: Chairperson I will make an input here and then to be followed by other inputs. I cannot comment authoritatively on the article which you have just read but there were certain things which were happening in this country and we talked yesterday about this whole counter-mobilisation against liberation movement, and I think unless you have that understanding you are going to miss the point. You are going to see the ANC fighting against the IFP. The UDF fighting against the IFP, that's how superficially you will end up, and with respect I think we should go beyond that and much deeper.
There is enough evidence in various commissions like the Goldstone Commission and others, the well-known slush fund which was used by a Minister of Law and Order, Vlok at the time, to fund certain political activities of the IFP, rallies and things like those. If you look at the statement made by Louis Botha, Colonel Louis Botha, if you look at the statement made by Eugene de Kock, you understand exactly what we are talking about when we talk about components of counter-mobilisation against the liberation movement.
Now you tell me who was regarding who as the enemy? We prosecuted a struggle in the name of the people to liberate all the people of South Africa, whether they were Inkatha or not Inkatha members; whether they were National Party or not National Party members, but all along we came across this counter-mobilisation which used surrogates, and I must put it upfront, surrogates, and yesterday I tried to indicate to you Sir and Madam, the role played by the Three Million Gang in the Free State; the role played by the Black Cats in Mpumulanga, in Ermelo in particular and all those highveld towns; the Masinyora; the A-teams; the Amafrika in the Eastern Cape; and the Veduke in many parts of the country, you will need to follow exactly those organisations and trace back who formed them, who funded them. You will find that the same persons who were funding certain elements in the IFP, and I'm not saying the whole IFP, certain elements in the IFP for the purpose of weakening the liberation movement particularly the ANC were involved in forming this organisation, funding them, directing them against liberation movement.  Now therefore we are very reluctant to see ourselves having had the IFP as such as the enemy. We think the enemy, in our definition at the time, was the government of the day, the system which they were running and of course if you, they say in Afrikaans, if you mix yourselves with the pigs then you get soiled. And this is exactly what happened which could have led to an article like the one in the AC, that the strike - the IFP will not have been a military opponent, it would have been a political opponent, that we are prepared to - up to today, they stand in opposition to a lot of things we stand for. So you could not graduate a mere party which is a political opponent to a military opponent such that we would want to have an onslaught against the IFP.
I think the Deputy President expressed himself very clearly yesterday on the other questions, I don't want to go back to them. But we are saying there's a broader political context of the formation of counter-mobilisation forces in the country which were aimed at undermining democratic forces, and that some elements of the IFP allowed themselves to be used in a particular way including the way in which organisations which we have mentioned were used.
If you take the Black Cats for example, we referred yesterday to a case of Keswa who said I am a member of the IFP, I was given money by the police to kill a member of the ANC, and I say again, it is on record. Now, it's not only with the Black Cats, it's with the rest of them.
You take the Three Million Gang there's a guy called Witi, and you can read about Witi and see who was working with Witi - he worked with the police. There is a lot of evidence to prove that Witi worked with the police.
If you take Ama Afrika, what was going on there where they were operating, it was like AZAPO fighting the UDF and at the end it didn't turn out to be exactly what it appeared to be.
Now we want the Commission to focus on and analyse the counter-mobilisation strategy of the National Party against the liberation movements, in particular the ANC, because we think people who ran this counter-mobilisation are still alive, P W Botha and his cabinet, Mr F W de Klerk and his cabinet, they must come here and explain to you, because we all must tell the truth to the extent which we know the truth, how was that organised? How did they use this to strengthen their hands during the negotiation process and to try and weaken those who were negotiating with them in good faith?  Now that would be my input on that.
In conclusion saying that a construction which says Buthelezi was a military enemy of the ANC is false, but if you say he was a political opponent, yes, he was and he still remains one like de Klerk is one, in the same manner, normal political relationships or parties.

UNKNOWN: Jewel Natchitanje(?) Chairperson would like to say something on this matter. He was sworn in yesterday.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.