Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: I would like to call Mr Mphilo Ntuli to the witness stand please.  There are two witnesses who are not coming today. The one will be coming tomorrow and this is our second-last witness for today.  I would like to welcome you to the proceedings of the Commission, is that a family member that you have brought with you?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: It's a friend.

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to welcome him too.

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: We have assigned a Commissioner to assist you with the leading of your evidence and we have asked Professor Meiring to help you with yours.  I am going to hand over to him.

PROF MEIRING: Mr Ntuli thank you for coming to us today, and we do hope that you will find it a healing experience to be with us and to tell your story.  May I ask you before I invite you to tell your story just to give us some information about yourself.  You are 28 years old, is that correct?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: Yes Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Are you working at the moment?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No I am not working.

PROF MEIRING: Did you go to school?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No I left school.

PROF MEIRING: At which standard?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: I left school at standard six Sir.
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PROF MEIRING: Are you married?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No.

PROF MEIRING: No children?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No children.

PROF MEIRING: Living with your parents?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: Yes Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  Now we have a picture of Mr Ntuli.  You want to tell us about a very horrible thing that happened to you nearly 12 years ago.  On the 5th of November 1984 something happened that changed your whole life, please tell us about that.

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: It was in 1984 on the 5th of November in Mashiming Section.  I was visiting a friend.  Unfortunately I never managed to get there because that's where I was injured on my way to visit my friend.   There was a stayaway that was declared and people were marching.  Then I decided to use a round-about way so that these people must pass, but at that instant Caspers emerged and they were chasing this group around.  But I was just on my way to my friend's house and they were throwing teargas canisters as well and two White policemen approached me from the back.  They said I must stop.  When I tried to look back then they shot me at my leg and that's where I was hospitalised and amputated.

PROF MEIRING: What happened that day, the 5th of November, was there a commotion, was there many people in the streets, what happened that day that caused the police to come?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: There was a stayaway and a march if I can remember clearly.

PROF MEIRING: Were you very active in politics at that stage?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No I was not active.
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PROF MEIRING: So it was quite at random that they shot you?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: They were just shooting randomly and thereafter they threw you in the back of the Police van.

PROF MEIRING: Were you the only one that was thrown into the Police van?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: It was a number of us, we might have been six or seven because thereafter there was a mass funeral here in Jan Livingstone Stadium and I saw in the newspaper whilst I was in the hospital that there was a mass funeral and that was the last I heard.

PROF MEIRING: You were shot in your leg just below the knee and then you said your leg had to be amputated, how long did you stay in the hospital?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: I stayed there for three months.

PROF MEIRING: And when you were released from the hospital what happened then?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: They brought me to Rabasoto that's where I stayed for five days, and then they released me and gave me a date when to appear in Germiston Court.  When I got there I was never called, only my mother's name was called, but when she responded they told her that the matter has been dismissed and I was charged with public violence and that was the end of the matter.

PROF MEIRING: Initially charged with public violence, but the case was dismissed and you were allowed to go home, was that the end of the story?  Were you left in peace then?  Could you go on with your life?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: They never troubled me thereafter.

PROF MEIRING: But you still suffer from that incident?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: Yes because I have been using this walking stick
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since this injury in order to balance thoroughly because I still have irons implanted in my leg.  I cannot balance, put much weight on my leg.  I must use a walking stick.  I sustained this injury a long time ago, it should have healed by now but I have to use a walking stick.

PROF MEIRING: And I was told that you used to be a very good football player, is that correct?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: Yes it is correct Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Do you find it difficult to work or are you able to work?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: I find it difficult to work, even just to move around. I get tired easily because time and again the pain will come and go, but I cannot move around for a long time.

PROF MEIRING: Don't you think it will be a good idea to get further education to help you with work that you are able to do in your condition?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: That I don't understand about that, going back to school.

PROF MEIRING: You wouldn't like to go back to school, even to a special school to be trained?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: I am not sure.  At the moment I want to start my own business to sell vegetables and fruit.  It would be quite difficult for me to go back to school.

PROF MEIRING: But I am glad to hear that you have plans for the future, you want to become a businessman.  There is a last question I want to ask, did you ever make a claim against the police or against the SANDF for what happened to you?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No, I never instituted a claim.  There was a lawyer who approached me whilst I was in hospital by the name of Kabela Mothibe. He is the one who was handling my
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matter, but he is no longer interested.  I am not having any regular contact with him, he has just disappeared and I never followed up the matter myself.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much Mr Ntuli.  I think I can finish here but I am sure some of my colleagues would like to add a number of questions.  Thanks for coming.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe if you can remember clearly did these people say anything to you before they shot you?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: They never said anything.  They approached me from behind.  They were standing in a different yard.  They just said I must stop and when I tried to turn around to see as to who was saying this to me they just shot at me and I fell.  Having fallen a Black policemen beat me with the back of the firearm in my chest, and that was the end.

MS MKHIZE: I know it is quite difficult to take you back but it is quite important that we should get some clarity.  When you said they had approached you from behind do you remember how many were there?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: There were two.

MS MKHIZE: Did you identify them?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No.  There were two policemen, Black and White.  I know the Black policeman he was working here at the police station but I would be able to identify him when I see him.  But the White policeman is the one who shot.

MS MKHIZE: As you were in hospital did anyone come and see you in hospital?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: Yes, the Black policeman did come because we were under police guard there in hospital. (tape ends.....)

MS MKHIZE: ...he asked you about instead of the game?

MPHILO JERRY NTULI: No there was nothing else because we were so many that were guarded by the police and there was nothing
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much we said to the police.

MS MKHIZE: Other than inviting you to play cards there is nothing that they asked you about your health?