Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Uxolo, andifuni ukupazamisa kakhulu. Are you going to read through   all of it, or will you highlight in consideration of ixesha. I am aware that   it hangs together and it is probably not easy to - don't know what you want   to do.

DR GIDEON KHABELA: Yes, I will just highlight a few things Mr Chairperson.
While some of the members of our church, particularly leaders, at a particular   time in history stood up and took at a great risk to speak out against apartheid,   they did not always get support from the church and from the rest of the clergy   as well. I will highlight here and I would like to apologise on behalf of the   church to the Reverend Soga here next to me, the Reverend Finca here, and many   others who stood up at a time that was very critical in the life of our church,   that we didn't give support. At other times when they were detained, we did   not visit them. But I would like to say, Mr Chairperson, that the awareness   of the evil of the apartheid system grew with the awareness, with the level   of awareness in the black community in general. Fear was widespread in the black   community, because as you know the apartheid system spread its tentacles deep   into the black communities and if you spoke out you were snatched easily. Everyone   wanted to save his skin, and we did so most of the time in the RPC, letting   our fellow ministers and brothers and sisters who felt called to act at the   time to feel both vulnerable and isolated from our community. We unreservedly   wish to apologise to them and to the whole community of South Africa.
We also have indicated in our reports, Mr Chairman, how we would like to see   the future of South Africa in terms of healing and reconciliation. We would   like to highlight a few things, particularly that we recognise that there is   a spirit, there is a general spirit of denial in the white community. In particular   we have been watching the process of the TRC unfold. In the white community   seems that the general feeling is that they did not know what was happening.   The apartheid machinery hid its human rights abuses from them. As a result they   feel embarrassed by revelations of human rights abuse by the government they   supported and feel impatient with the truth of the past. Some of them, we feel   correctly or incorrectly Mr Chairman, that some white people in our community   want a quick fix reconciliation where the nation will not dwell on the human   violations of the past but will hurriedly move forward into the future in the   spirit of reconciliation. In the black community we observe, Mr Chairperson,   that the question is Did indeed white people not know what was happening in   the country? Or did white people not want to know? It is this understanding   that our church feels that it can contribute to the process of national healing   by developing a theology of reconciliation. It must emphasise the requirement   for reconciliation such as has been mentioned already, economic reconciliation,   national healing and the preaching of relevant messages and openness to the   truth that has happened in the past and the hurt that has happened in the past.   Mr Chairperson, I think I will stop here.

CHAIRPERSON: I hope I have not inhibited you Dada?

DR GIDEON KHABELA: No, you have not.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Because it is actually an extraordinary document as   many of these have been and I am actually feeling a little sorry because some   of the things that you say about people like Soga and Finca, if you had been   good I would say you were read into our record, but we have got it here and   we give thanks that your church raised leaders of their calibre. I don't know   whether there is something that you would want to add?
REV. D.M.

SOGA: Thank you your Grace. On the question of whether the Reformed   Presbyterian Church has recommendations on how to prevent human rights violations   in the new South Africa, we feel that there has got to be visible signs that   change has come in our country. If you look at the treatment of our people at   government offices. People are made to stand in long queues, subjected to different   kinds of weather and the treatment they have to get from our young clerks, leaves   much to be desired, and so there is a cry among the ordinary people, men and   women of our country, that there is absolutely no difference, you know, from   the situation that prevailed under the apartheid system as far as this type   of treatment is concerned. So we believe that there has got to be a paradigm   shift. Let's make an effort to bring to the notice of the ordinary people that   change has taken place, or is beginning to take place. So that people are being   treated better than they have been. For so long, people have suffered under   the ruthlessness of government officials of the past regime. So we feel that   we have got to put pressure on the government to attend to these problems and   find a way of introducing better treatment of our people at government offices.   For instance, I'm thinking of the Department of Social Welfare where there is   a lot of controversy and many complaints from our people who feel that they   are being let down by a government they have voted for, so we are gravely concerned   about that, and we do promise that we will do our best as a predominantly black   church to lend our support to whatever action the government will take, and   we will do our part as individuals or congregations where we are based, to try   and make a contribution towards addressing this problem.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I would have hoped that any one in government   would take that as - I mean it seems a thing that could in fact be effected   fairly quickly, but it means that there is a job for all of us because many   of those working there are our children. And we ought to be saying "Where   is Ubuntu?" It's got nothing to do with money or anything like this. These   are often old enough to be your parents. Why do you continue to behave in this   way towards them? And I think it doesn't have to wait for this commission to   make a recommendation, it doesn't have to wait for the government. I think that   we, you people with your stature and so on can already be making that difference,   but thank you very much.
DR K.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much for your contribution. I just want to take   you back to the formation of your church. The native church led by natives themselves.   Was there any clear programme worked out for this type of a church to make it   indeed an indigenous church? We should be custodian of the African theology   which manifests itself in Ubuntu which has been very difficult to promote in   these other multiracial churches. Number two we have heard a lot about the   programme to combat racism where some of the churches did not affirm it or oppose   it. I haven't heard anything about your church as far as the programme to combat   racism is concerned. Could you comment on that?
REV. D.M.

SOGA: Chairperson, I would respond by saying we have not made any   direct contribution to that, besides supporting you know the stand of the SACC   as far as that is concerned. Unfortunately we have not made any direct contribution   to the programme to combat racism.