Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: But before you tell us about those incidents can you very brieflygive us some background about yourself. I understand that you were involvedin political activities much earlier than that. So, without going into too much detail just give us some background as to your activities.--- Mr Chairman, I'll just give a short history. I joined the South AfricanCommunist Party in 1939 when I was still a scholar, and I stayed in Johannesburgin '39. I made about six months there in Johannesburg there. I was staying withRuth First and Joe Slovo. I was staying with them in Johannesburg because Iwas a member of the Young Communist League by that time. And then ... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: Excuse me. I am sorry to interrupt you. Could you pull themicrophone a little closer, because everybody wants to hear.

WITNESS: Oh, I see.

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much.

WITNESS: And then after that I decided to jointhe main party itself, the Communist Party, so I was briefed to be the organiserof the Communist Party in the Free State here. And then it's that time I joinedwith Bram Fischer, and then the others, all the leaders of the Communist Party,Moses Gutane and the others, Sam Khan and so forth and so forth. And then Icame in the Free State then, organising the Communist Party, and after someyears again I went to Johannesburg, came back again to the Free State as anorganiser on the Communist Party in the Free State here. And then I decidedto join the Advisory Board by that time, because I thought that they are gettingthese things right. Once you'll get into these organisations - our townshipswere so bad streets, no water, no houses, all such things. Well, I was a memberof the Advisory Board for about a year, and then I again was chased out of Brandfort,you know, under the pass laws, that I was not working, just a loafer in thetownship here, and intimidating people to be against the Council and so forth, and just like that. ThenI was sent back again to Johannesburg, where I came from, because they saidI was a loafer. So there's a word in Afrikaans that, "Ons gooi op jou oor dieluin" - "You must get out of this area because you are a loafer." And then againI came back in the Free State, I started again organising trade unions and soforth and so forth. I started organising the Brandfort Workers Union. I foundthat people were just working there, you know, for nuts, and it was necessaryto organise them into a trade union there. I started to form what they callthe Brandfort Workers Union. Well, I went on just like that until comes rightagain. Just not - to be very short, in 1989 - no, let's say 1976, when theseyoung kids started to be against the Afrikaans. In Brandfort we had what theycalled the Khosas, the students formed themselves into a group, and then itwas called the Khosas. Then these Khosas were, you know, fighting each otherin the black townships. The others did not like the Khosas, and then the policehave to intervene just like that. And then they started to have what they calledthe anti-Comrades. They were fighting now, the schoolchildren, by that time.We had a group of about 15 children who were against the scholars, fightingthe scholars. And then it's where again the clash started again with my wife.She was in there. I couldn't get too much in the whole thing because I was restrictedand banned and house arrested, because I was being restricted and banned from1946, when I was in Johannesburg. And 1950, when these organisations were bannedI was also banned and house arrested and restricted not to go to the churches,and it was just like that. And

MR LYSTER: then it happened that Winnie Mandela encouraged us again thatwe should join with these Advisory Boards, the so-called town councillors. Andthen we started to join up with the Town Council. My wife went in there as acouncillor. I couldn't get in there because I was on the banned list, I wasrestricted not to attend those things. And then she was there for about two,three years as a councillor, and then they, the people of Brandfort, they encouragedus that we should get in there because they know what kind of people we were.Well, we tried to get them houses, to put everything in order, so they werevery much pleased with us. And then at a later stage again they said I shouldalso join with my wife there, you know, to fight for our local rights in ourblack area there. So I got in there too. Well, we got fightings with the localauthorities in Brandfort, fightings with the Provincial Councils, to get sitesfor us there. Well, I managed to get about three locations at Brandfort therethrough my efforts and my wife. So then in 1989 those small kids, or those youngboys were fighting the scholars, the so-called Khosas. Then those anti-Comrades,they started to join with the ANC in Brandfort, and then they started to callme that I am a communist, I am a sell-out, all such things, because before theydid not like me, because the white guys were telling these youngsters and Brandfortpeople that, "You must hate this Phehlani ... Afrikaans sentence ..." So someof these youngsters, you know, they were encouraged by whites that they shouldhate me because I'm a communist. And then in 1989 they started to be ANC members,and they too now they started to hate me that I'm a Communist, and then theystarted to say that, "This man