Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-17

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: When he fell down, Shabalala continued firing.  I saw him taking off a magazine that looked like it was finished and then he inserted the second one and he continued firing.  He fired and he eventually stopped.  I don't know how many bullets that he fired.  After that I said we must take him to the charge office.  We did that, we took him into the kombi and we took him to the charge office.
	We went to Lieutenant Gilele, he said we must rush him to the hospital.  We did that.  We took him to the hospital.  After some time we heard that he died, he later died.  We went back to the charge office to Lieutenant Gilele who phoned the head office in Umtata.  He reported the matter.  We left the charge office.  We went to Elliott.  We went to the security offices there.
	There was a white man there.  There was a boer who was in the office who shaked our hands because of what happened.

MR DILIZO: Can you remember who that white man was?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't know his name.

MR DILIZO: Do you know whether he as a policeman or not?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He was a policeman because he was in the office.

MR DILIZO: Okay, proceed.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: After that he also phoned Umtata head office and General Kawe instructed us to come back to Umtata.  We left Elliott and we went to Umtata.  We went to the head office where we were instructed to write statements.  It was myself and Braam Moss who were making the statements.

MR DILIZO: And what about Shabalala and Shosha?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Shabalala and Shosha, I didn't hear them being instructed to make some statements but what I heard is that they said myself and Braam Moss must make statements so that the case could be destroyed.

MR DILIZO: Which case, the matter of Batandwa Ndondo?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That's correct sir.

MR DILIZO: Who said so.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was General Kawe.

MR DILIZO: Did he advance any reason why that case should, to use the term destroyed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He didn't mention anything except that.

MR DILIZO: Who were eventually charged in the matter of Batandwa Ndondo?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: After some time I was called again by General Kawe.  He called me to his office.  He said they've decided to charge myself and Shabalala, not to charge Braam Moss because Braam Moss was from Ntobo and the people from Ntobo would identify him and kill him.  It was myself and Shabalala who were charged from Bizana.

MR DILIZO: Do you know the district from which Shabalala is coming?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No, I don't know.

MR DILIZO: Okay.  proceed.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: We went to Court, myself and Shabalala.  We went there twice.  during the third time Shabalala didn't pitch up.  The fourth time he also didn't pitch up.  I went there alone and the case was withdrawn and they said they are going to wait until Shabalala is arrested.

MR DILIZO: So what is the position now with regard to that case which was withdrawn?  Does it still remain withdrawn even up to now?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes, it was still withdrawn but I decided to submit an Application for Amnesty.

MR DILIZO: Mr Dandala, this incident occurred in 1985.  Do you still remember the events very well which occurred on that particular day?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I still remember sir.  I can still remember.

MR DILIZO: So what are you therefore applying to this Honourable Court?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Before this Committee, I am applying for amnesty because I admit that we killed Batandwa although I'm not sure whether it was my own bullet that killed him but in the name of reconciliation and nation building I am saying it was a mistake.  Therefore I ask for forgiveness.

MR DILIZO: To whom are you asking for this pardoning?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: To the families of Batandwa and the community at large.

MR DILIZO: So do I understand you clearly to mean that you are not sure whether your own bullet actually hit the deceased but if so, you admit that it might be?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes, I'm not sure but I admit that we killed him.

MR DILIZO: Is there anything else Mr Dandala which you would like to bring to the attention of this Honourable Committee?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I can start from the beginning where I stayed.  I was working as an underground security police.  As I have already said that in the underground security police we were not allowed to arrest, ours was to gather information and get information about a certain person and pass that information to the head office and the head office would arrest that person but it happened Colonel Booi called me in that underground security police and he send me to the Barkly East.
	It was on the 23rd September 1985.  We left here in the evening and we left in the afternoon and we arrived there during the night.  We went to Constable Booyse and we woke up early in the morning preparing ourselves to go to work.  In the house where I spent the night, it was myself and Constable Booyse.  There was no other person who gave me anything except that he asked Constable Booyse how do things work there and then he said they were still busy patrolling the Transkei.
	I also want to say that even there I didn't know the situation that was prevailing at the time.  I was not told what kind of job was going to be done.  But all I was told was that I was going to assist the South African Police.  The police at the time were called, termed terrorist who were appointing some people.  I am aware of the fact that after some time there will be a situation like that.

MR DILIZO: Did you know where Braam Moss, Shabalala and Shosha were coming from, or stationed?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I didn't know them.  I just saw them for the very first time that day.

MR DILIZO: Mr Chairman, that is the evidence of the Applicant, Mr Dandala.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DILIZO

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  It has just occurred to me that there are legal representative here who are representing the implicated persons but who have not placed themselves on Record in regard to the individuals on whose behalf they appear.  Would the  legal representative who represent the implicated persons please place themselves on Record and indicate the person or the individual on whose behalf they appear.

MR WESSELS: Thank you.  May it please Mr Chairman, my name is Wessels, J W Wessels.  I am an advocate from the Port Elizabeth Bar.  I am representing General Kawe in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wessels.

MR MACHOKWENE: May it please you Mr Chairman, my name is Advocate Macho, S D Machokwene, from the Transkei Bar.  I am representing General  Nkalitshana and Colonel Booi in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: General who?

MR MACHOKWENE: General Nkalitshana.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you Mr Machokwene.  Yes, very well.  Mr Knight do you have any questions you want to put to the witness?

MR KNIGHT: Mr Chairman I do but before I proceed with my cross examination I understand that a copy of the post-mortem was going to be available or is available and I would seek the indulgence of a short adjournment just to peruse the post-mortem before I proceed with cross examination and I do see that it is almost tea time so would it be a convenient time to possibly take an early adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Is the post-mortem available?

MR DUKADA: Mr Chairman I am in possession of a copy of the post-mortem report, not the original.  Nevertheless I have tried to make copies for my colleagues if they want to peruse it during the adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: Do we have enough copies of that report?

MR DUKADA: Well I'm not sure Mr Chairman, there are many persons who are entitled to it.  I have three copies with me.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma do you have a copy?  You don't have a copy of the post-mortem report.