Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-07

MS SEROKI: Because even before the previous speaker was telling us about Khumalo did you hear that? Our honourable Chairman just said you've mentioned Khumalo and the previous speaker also made mention of Khumalo and the Chairman has explained in English that anyone who's been mentioned as an alleged perpetrator will also be given an opportunity to come forward and explain the side the story so that we know that to every story there are two sides.
 Now what I'm trying to say here in a nutshell is, maybe some have not heard Dr Russel.  I'd like to explain and absolutely emphasise his point that any name that's been mentioned as and alleged perpetrator, that person needs to come forward as well to give their statement so that we know their side of the story.  If there any people in this hall, maybe Reverend Khumalo himself is present here, we do extend an invitation to him and even who know that probably he's not here to please pass on the message to him so that he is aware of the fact that he needs to come forward and give an account and also explain to us his side of the story.

DR RANDERA: Bafana you said earlier on to Ms Seroke that you were a friend of Lucky and that you know Buyisela.  Now Buyisela said that Rev Khumalo seemed to come on to the scene after his daughter was raped. Can you remember that incident?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: At the time I was arrested, I was in prison.  When Mugabe did that I was not in the neighbourhood I was in prison.

DR RANDERA: Was that in 1992, 1991?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: '92.

DR RANDERA: Before this happened was there a Khumalo gang? I mean did people know of the Rev Khumalo and his gang and the association with the IFP which you allege.  Did people in the community in Thokaza know of this gang before the Reverend's daughter was raped?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: No that gang was not existing before, it started after Mugabe had raped his daughter.

DR RANDERA: So it really came into existence with the rape of the Rev Khumalo's daughter.

PETRUS NTOMBELA: Yes.

DR RANDERA: And therefore it could be possible that the Reverend was just trying to take revenge for what happened to his daughter?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: Yes that's what I will say.

DR RANDERA: But why did the links with the IFP ...(indistinct), you say he was strongly linked to the IFP?
I just want us to go away quite clear, was this gang associated with the IFP or was this just because the Reverend's daughter was raped?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: He was an IFP member, I mean Khumalo.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

MR LEWIN: Mr Ntombela, could I just try and clarify.  You mentioned, you've just  mentioned that now that you yourself were in prison, could you tell us when it was and why?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: I spent a short time in prison.  I was arrested in January and released in February.

MR LEWIN: Were you actually charged or were you held in detention?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: I was pointed to as one of those who owned weapons and I did not own any weapon or gun.

MR LEWIN: So were you held in detention by the police?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: They met with some boys that knew me and because I used to sell liquor so everybody was coming any time and the police came and picked me up and alleged I had a gun.

MR LEWIN: Why do you think they wanted to put you in prison?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: There was one vehicle outside and there were two guns in it.  The boys had left and ran away and I was the only one around now.  Everybody had left the area.

MR LEWIN: Could I ask you, I think in following up what Dr Randera has asked, would you describe the conflicts that you have told us about, would you describe it as a political conflict?

PETRUS NTOMBELA: What was happening had nothing to do with politics but murdering and thugs around.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Bafana, I won't add anything to what Ms Seroki has said about giving everyone a chance to respond allegations and we will certainly be following up in your case as well, as we will with the previous witness, Lilian Mampura.  Thanks very much for coming.