Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: At the time I was completing the application form, it was heard or known from TV and news that the IFP had a negative attitude towards the TRC, therefore at that particular time I couldn't say anything that was damaging toward my political organisation or to divulge all the information that I am giving today, because my organisation did go with well or didn't really recognise the TRC and it so happened that while we were at Westville Prison, some senior leaders from the IFP came to plead with us that we mustn't by any means implicate, in any way implicate leaders of the IFP.   However, in order to avoid that, we should only just mention that there was a conflict or fighting at these particular moments.   They will come and call people like us, when I say "us", I mean myself, Mbambo Mkelwani Mkise and Mr Mafule, who was the leader of the IFP Youth League, and there was people like Sinemembas Didlike, Mr Dingile and all these people mentioned, who were members in the IFP, they will come and plea with us that if there are applications which have got names implicating the senior leaders, we should inform them and also so that they can come and they will change and write the reasons that they gave us and we should state that it was in a political context.   That's the reason why I personally didn't complete the form from my own knowledge and stated exactly what I knew.

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't understand you well.   When you said Didlike, whom are you referring to?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: He's a lawyer, or he's a legal representative or a lawyer for the IFP, he's the one who came with TRC forms and he said those who want to complete them, they can complete them, but they should not implicate IFP members, senior members, but some of us who didn't go to school, didn't understand what he said, so they ended up including the names of senior members.   This De Klerk came back, I think when they looked at the application and realised that they did implicate some people whom we said they should not implicate, they returned the application form and said to us we should change the application form and write other things and some application forms were changed.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your application form completed with the assistance of Mr De Klerk?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: No, it wasn't, mine was already gone.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Mr De Klerk involved at all in fetching your application from you whilst you were in prison in order to despatch it to the offices of the TRC?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I gave my application form to the person who was responsible for submitting the application.   That person was working at the Westville Prison, I didn't give it to De Klerk.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that person attached to the TRC?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: He was just a police officer in Westville Prison.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say some leaders came and pleaded with you not to implicate IFP leaders, can you mention the leaders who came and requested you not to do so?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes, it was Mickey Britz, Captain Hlangwa, Mr Dingile or Dingila, together with Mr De Klerk.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   I think the names didn't come out appropriately, I only picked up Mr De Klerk and De Klerk I know is indeed a lawyer, not a leader of the IFP.   Thank you, Mr Oosthuizen, you may proceed.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.   Sir, can you tell us at what stage - or before we come to that, why did you decide to come to the commission today and tell the truth?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: It's because the person with whom I was arrested, or the person with whom I was operating, did came before the commission to reveal the truth.   In the beginning, I wasn't willing to expose the IFP because I was loyal to it, but I realised that the IFP was no longer visiting me or sending me some lawyers to represent me, so I realised maybe I should take this opportunity to come before the commission to tell the truth.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And when did you made this decision to tell the truth?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: After they stopped visiting me and leaving me in the dark, and after I see all my colleagues coming before the commission to tell the truth, and that changed my mind, that it's better for me to go out and tell the truth.

CHAIRPERSON: When did they stop visiting you, what year was it?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: They stopped last year, early last year.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And did you receive any financial benefit to commit this act?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I didn't get even a single cent.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Do you know if Mr Romeo Mbambo received any financial benefit?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: What I heard from him is that he didn't get anything and I never witnessed him getting anything.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you.   Sir, further on, why did you comply with these instructions from Mrs Mbuyazi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: You mean the first time?   Firstly, I also wanted to do it myself, because I hated the ANC.   It was even evident that they could win the elections and I thought if it does win the elections, we will enter a period of starvation.   Secondly, I was a member of the hit squads and if you were given instructions, you're supposed to perform your duties.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: What would have happened to you, if anything, what would have happened to you, if anything, if you did not comply with these instructions from Mrs Mbuyazi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I'll personally, as a member of the squad, I couldn't refuse, because it was my work, if I was given work to do as a hit squad, I'm supposed to do the work.

CHAIRPERSON: The question is what could have happened to you had you not obeyed the instructions from the hierarchy?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: If I were to refuse, if I were to refuse after giving instructions, they wouldn't trust me anymore.   If they don't trust me among my colleagues in the leadership, they might have killed me, because I will be a danger to them.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And you testified that at that stage, just before, or during the time when you received the instructions from Mrs Mbuyazi, you said that you hated the ANC.   Why is that?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Because the ANC people have already troubled me a lot, they tried to assassinate me and while I was still schooling, they called me an impimpi, that means an informer.   Since I associated myself with my friends who were police, they started hating me, thinking that I was an informer, and they were thinking that some of the things that were done towards the ANC members by these police, I knew them, therefore they started attacking me with AK47, limpet mines, and I was shot while I was walking with my friend in 1989, and during the shooting two of my friends died and from there I started hating them.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And would you say that this act that you actually committed, together with other members of the IFP hit squad, would you describe that as an act associated with a political objective?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes, I would say yes, firstly because if they attack you and called "igovo" (?), which was the name denoting that you are a member of IFP, a derogative name.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And would I be correct if I say that you acted on instructions from an IFP central committee leader?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct, there were instructions that we should, I mean harass them or trouble them.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And at that stage when this whole incident happened, would you say the IFP was engaged in a political struggle against the ANC at that stage of time?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: What time are you referring to?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: The time when - the time of the killing of Mr Thalede.

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: What was happening - are you asking what was happening at that time?