Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

MR NTSEBEZA: Has his suffering been diagnosed as mental depression which causes him to be unable to work and care for himself?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who is Bantu?

CHARITY KONDILE: Well Bantu is Sizwe's child, but born out of marriage.

MR NTSEBEZA: But it's his child all the same?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Does the child know who the father is?

CHARITY KONDILE: Well when the father left he was still very
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young, but unfortunately, when these publications were coming out, some journalists took a photo of him and he saw this photograph in the press, and some children at school told him that they had seen his picture in the paper. They were talking about his father and he started asking about him. Since then he has been pestering us to tell him where the father is and so on, and we find it very difficult.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now Mrs Kondile, you have told us a horrifying story, all at once a story of the tragic murder of your son at the hands of the security police, but I think where it is most depressing and sad, through no fault of anybody, but perhaps through the fault of those same security persons, a story of how the abduction and kidnapping of your child was not believed by his own comrades.  Now if you had a request to make to the Commission, what would it be?

CHARITY KONDILE: If I have a request to make to the Commission, I would ask the Commission to assist us to bring the perpetrators of this brutal murder before the court, so that these perpetrators could be charged and punished for what they did and the manner in which my son was murdered. And I further ask the Commission to see what it can do to pacify the Kondile family for the loss of a beloved son, deprivation and the loss of a father and provider to Bantu, because I feel Sizwe would have provided for Bantu and we are towards pension, we are the grandparents.
 Information of Sizwe's character and loss of his belongings, damage to the Kondile Family's dignity and trauma with the whole family, especially his siblings, his father, his closest friend, Bantu and myself.  And I'd further add that it's a request from my mother in law that 
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I should  have expressed to the Commission that the Kondile family would be the last people to turn traitors, because even the state president himself, President Mandela, and the late Mr Oliver Tambo, were once sheltered under her roof in Port Elizabeth.  So I want to say that Sizwe grew up under such conditions, listening to these stories from his grandmother, so he has been inspired.  They have expressed that they have been in the struggle for quite a long time to find themselves at last ...(indistinct).

MR NTSEBEZA: But is it not consolation that at least from the revelations of Dirk Coetzee and those who have been testifying at the court trial, that your son and his commitment has been vindicated?  That on an objective of all known facts, it can now be established that he never turned traitor?

CHARITY KONDILE: This was just an endorsement, I understand, they also understand now, they're also happy now that the truth has come, but ask that we should endorse, that I should endorse.

MR NTSEBEZA: I see.  I will ask just one question which is a question that I ask many people in your position.  If in the course of this investigative process, the Commission were to identify all the perpetrators of your son's murder, not only those who have confessed to have been the physical agents of his liquidation, but those who were the hidden hands behind his destruction, but who in that process, applied for amnesty, and were able in that process to be granted amnesty on the basis that they have given a full disclosure and have met all the requirements of amnesty, what would your attitude be?

CHARITY KONDILE: This question has been asked from me many
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times, even by journalists, even journalists from the BBC, and I've tried to answer, even to men of religion.  I should have indicated from the beginning that I am from  a religious home, I am the last born daughter of a minister of religion, but when it comes to that question, I have decided that now I shall cross that bridge when I come to it, because it is a question I cannot answer at this juncture, because it should depend on my emotions at that time, how I feel at that time.  I don't want to give those people hope before they have demonstrated to come up with the truth.

MR NTSEBEZA: Fair enough.  Thank you Mrs Kondile.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Questions?

MR SANDI: Has any statement been made by the ANC to say that Sizwe Kondile has never turned a traitor and that they've now realised what happened? A public statement, not just a statement to you? And if they did make such a statement, did it satisfy you?

CHARITY KONDILE: No, besides the telephone conversation between myself and the late Mr Hani, there has never been a statement to that effect.  The advocate that was there, the advocate is from Jacob Zuma, who was the head of the Ukhonto at that time, and the late Chris Hani, to the effect that after the so-called relief, they want to confirm, but it did not return to the ANC base. And incidently, that is one other reason why we don't accept really, because we feel that somebody from the ANC offices should have come, at least to say that Comrade Sizwe fell and they accept the way.  Of course I must testify to the Commission that at some rally in Port Elizabeth, the late Mr Chris Hani, when he was been reading out names of the heros of the Eastern Province who have fallen, he has always read out Sizwe's
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name, that is why the family is happy now, because we realise that the late Mr Chris Hani has accepted the truth.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions this side?

DR BORAINE: I understand that you wish Mr Bikole to support you today and give evidence?  Is that true?

CHARITY KONDILE: Yes, especially since he has kindly flown from Cape Town, especially to be here.

GUSUMZO BIKOLE: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, you may be seated.  Mr Nsebeza will continue to lead the evidence.  Thank you.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Bikole I don't intend to be long with you.  Can you confirm that Czinisizwe Konyani Kondile was known to you?

GUSUMZO BIKOLE: Yes I do.

MR NTSEBEZA: Can you briefly in your own words, very briefly give us a clear picture of how you came to know him where you went to and indeed, what you did in the course of the liberation struggle, both here, in exile, until that day when he mysteriously disappeared?

GUSUMZO BIKOLE: I grew up virtually together with Sizwe. We attended the same primary school, we attended the same church, we were together all the time, we were together at Fort Hare, we were involved in student politics while at Fort Hare, we got impatient with student politics, we made contact with the ANC before we left South Africa, we started working as ANC activists in underground conditions until such time that the police were hot on our trail. Two ...(indistinct) activists who were we in our cell, were arrested, we had to leave the country.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who were those?