Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-05

CHAIRPERSON: The beginning of your evidence, you indicated that you needed to send a message to the regime of the time, that attacks on especially the leadership of the ANC would not be tolerated.  Did I understand you correctly?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And hence these actions occurred?  The message was sent through by way of this ambush?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you hope to gain by that?  What purpose would this message want to be given to Mr De Klerk and whoever else needed to know?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Mr De Klerk knew that there was no other alternative in an effort to heal that wound, but to free the people of this country in terms of fixing the date for the national democratic election, so the challenges that we put to the National Party by the ANC at the negotiation centre, so Mr De Klerk was complying with those demands in an effort to heal the wound.

CHAIRPERSON: What did that have to do with the assassination of the leadership then?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Can you rephrase your question?

CHAIRPERSON: You say you wanted to send a message to De Klerk, that he must stop delaying matters and get on with cooperation and cooperating in establishing a date for the first democratic elections in this country.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So what did this killing, the ambush, what did that have to do with the assassination of the leadership then?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: I think the government would see that if it does not, it did not take the responsibility of making sure that such acts are not continuing in this country, then people who were for the ANC and its leaders, would kill the white element.  So, the only way to avoid that was to free the country.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you married?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: No, I am not.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have children?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: How many?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Three.

CHAIRPERSON: Are they going to school?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: They are still young.  He is attending pre-school, the old one.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you hope that they could live in this country as you would have wished to?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: I think so because now we are in a new dispensation.  This is their country.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

ADV DE JAGER: The problem that I've got is that if one wishes to send a message, then I would expect you to the next day say, I accept the responsibility for this.  I want to send this message.
	But if you don't accept the responsibility at any stage after the killing, how would you convey the message that you did this because there was the killing of the leader?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: The fact that we carried out the operation within the time frame, at the moment when everybody who has to do with the African National Congress, is expressing its anger, there was no need now to go to the government.
	I think it was theirs to speculate that the aim was to retaliate for comrade Chris.  I am saying that because of the conditions at the time, there was no need to claim the operation.

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, but you didn't carry out the operation that same day, the 10th of April, the evening you heard the news.  You didn't do it on the 11th, you didn't do it on the 12th.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: I said earlier on, even on the day of the funeral, Saturday, seven days after comrade Chris Hani was killed, people were still showing their anger and the top brass of the ANC was appealing to the people even at that time, you see, that that is why we saw no need for us to go and claim the operation.

ADV DE JAGER: Well, even after that, you didn't admit that you had done the killing in order to send the operation, even at your trial you didn't admit it?

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: No, on the trial we were sure that we were going to be prosecuted there, so that was the reason why we didn't want to come up with the information, because firstly that trial, we regarded it as if it in a way was, won't be fair with us, won't understand, won't justify our killing if we claim that, that is why we decided not to speak the truth there.
	But we knew that at the end of the day, we were going to tell the people why we killed Mr Glen and Alistair.  This is the opportunity that we are in now.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MLULAMISI MAXHAYI: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED