Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-09

PHINEAS NDLOVU: As a person it affected me in more than one way.  My school job suffered a lot.  Evidently I was a very brilliant student. If I had failed, really it would be in
the mid-year examination, and I would have been number 3, that would be a failure.  But come December, I wouldn't let my parents down. I would make it a point that I am number 1.  So in a way it did affect me. I started disliking some subjects, for instance Afrikaans, as it was branded then, that it was the language of the oppressor and in education you really had to pass three of these languages, and it was difficult for me to deal with that as such.
	In life generally, at home there was no longer peace between myself and my family.  My place was frequented by security police and the soldiers and they would come, assault my mom and I had to leave my home. I had to stay in scrap cars to sleep there and go home only to fetch lunch or to sneak in and have a bath and then go to school.  At school as well, I had to hide when I had to come out of school, because the area as there was turmoil at the time you would that it is frequented by police.  And I guess I didn't have much of sleep, because any car that passed by or gave sound of, the one I know - Casspirs, Hippos or (indistinct) that were used by the SAP would eventually give the call that I should wake up and start running. 
	What is worst of all, I had to resort to violence as there were no other means of sjambokking people who had been convicted or found guilty in a people's court.  And to some aspects some hated me but it was okay to have enemies for doing the right thing.
	As of showing people that I did have feelings, I had to hide them. I didn't have to have feelings.  The duties that I was called upon to do, didn't allow me just like any young person at the time, to be spoilt by my mom, to seek love of parents and what have you, I didn't have time for that. 
I missed all those years.

ADV DE JAGER: How did you become chairman of the people's court, who appointed or chose you?

PHINEAS NDLOVU: I was chosen by my comrade colleagues.

MR CURRIN: Were they of similar age?  What ages were they, your colleagues?

PHINEAS NDLOVU: They varied, M'Lord, from the youngest would be round about 9, 10 and there were older ones as well, who would range from 30 and below.  Being a comrade really at the time didn't have to be determined by the age one was in.

MR CURRIN: Did you show leadership qualities, is that why you were chosen as the chairperson?  Were you regarded as one of the leaders?

PHINEAS NDLOVU: Yes, I was regarded as one of the leaders, because everything that had to be done, if it wasn't done properly, in or around the location, then I would be the one who is called to come and make sure that everything is in accordance.  The were other liberated zones and during that time in our society, we had people in gang members who were most feared. People who you would hear stories that they have been to places as far as Lesotho to go and perform their African ritual or cultural or what have you, to strengthen themselves to create images that they be feared.  Should anyone of that nature suffer they would all resort that the only place where we could find the solution or someone who could deal with this person, it is to go to Russia and bring back those comrades.

MR CURRIN: Would you just bear with me for a moment. I just want to confer with my assistant.

MR BLACK: Sorry, Mr Chairman, I was just going to use this
opportunity to satisfy myself that the victims are - that we can continue, Sir.

MR CURRIN: Mr Ndlovu, I would now want us to move to the incident which occurred on the 2nd of June 1987.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Black, you could please enquire from the victims whether they could follow what is going on or whether they need assistance there?

MR BLACK: Yes, Mr Chairman, they are following the proceedings.

MR CURRIN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Could we now talk about the incident on the 2nd of June 1987, in which you were involved and which resulted in the tragic death of four people.  I think you should - I would like you to start by telling us about your visit to the shebeen, and we will then take the evidence from there.

PHINEAS NDLOVU: On the said day when we reached the entrance of the said place, we met on the way out and a security police member who was known to be notorious for his acts of torturing us comrades, and who was looking for us, so as to apprehend us with his colleagues to the system.  And this infuriated us, because he already knew who we were and we exchanged bitter looks and we went into the cafe.   And my comrade popped out the sum of R10,00 and bought some food so that we could have some supper before we went to our hiding places. But however, upon that he questioned why was that place being frequented by the police and why Mr Masupa had had a conversation with that man.

MR CURRIN: The Masupa you refer to, is that Hendrik?

PHINEAS NDLOVU: Hendrik.

MR CURRIN: Masupa.