Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-12

MR BRINK: All right, when your car was stopped, will you tell the Committee what happened?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Our car stopped there, thereafter men surrounded the car.  They pulled us out of the car to search us.  After we were searched, we were instructed to sit down next to those people we found sitting down.

MR BRINK: Can I just stop you there for a moment.  These people that got you out of the car, it is common cause, were wearing uniforms, do you remember that?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, that is correct.

MR BRINK: Did you recognise the uniforms?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: I thought it was a camouflage uniform.

MR BRINK: All right.  So they made you join the other men, the other three people?  They made you join the other three people?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: That is correct.

MR BRINK: Yes, carry on from there.

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Whilst we were sitting there, they started questioning us.  We were under pressure.

MR BRINK: Tell the Committee, what were they asking you.

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: They started by questioning us as to whether where are we from and where do we go, and what organisation do we belong to.
	At that time I was not working, I was a student.  I was on a journey with my brother.  They explained the way they did, after that they told us that we are members of the ANC.
	Simon Nkompone denied, then there became a long argument and then they started assaulting us and told us that we are members of the ANC.

MR BRINK: Were you in fact at that time, a member of the ANC?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: No sir.

MR BRINK: Are you a member of the ANC today?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: No sir.

MR BRINK: Very well.  Then on your evidence, they told you that you were ANC's, you were being assaulted, what happened next?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: After they assaulted us, they went at the back, on the other side of the car, then they grouped themselves.  They were talking to themselves, we did not understand what they were talking about or hear what they were talking about.  I did not know what happened.  After that I heard gun shots.

MR BRINK: When you heard gun shots, were you shot?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, that is when we were shot at.

MR BRINK: Where were you shot?  Where about were you shot?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: I was shot at the nose.

MR BRINK: Now, I observe that you are wearing what appears to be elastoplast where your nose should have been.  Is that the - did you loose your nose in that shooting incident?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, I lost my nose.

MR BRINK: We know that people were killed there?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, I know.

MR BRINK: I take it after you were shot, you lay on the ground?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: That is correct.

MR BRINK: Do you remember what happened to the motor cars, that is the Honda and the Toyota?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, I do.

MR BRINK: Will you tell the Committee?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Whilst I was laying down, I could feel the heat of fire.  When I raised my head, I saw that the car that we were driving, caught fire.  I arose, I was bleeding on the face.  When I looked, the car which we were driving in, that is the Toyota Cressida, was burning.
	I woke up Simon, then he said he would not be able to do anything.  I tried to go to that Cressida to extinguish the fire.  I opened the bonnet.  We had two litre of the cold drink, then I opened the boot, then I took those clothes which were burning.  I poured that cold drink.

MR BRINK: Did these men in uniform, to your knowledge, then get away from the scene?  Did you see them leave?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: I didn't see them when they were leaving.

MR BRINK: Were you subsequently taken to hospital and treated?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, I was taken to the hospital for treatment.

MR BRINK: You have heard the evidence of the applicants, excepting Mr Van der Schyff, the other applicants who say that all of you were asked whether you were members of the ANC and you freely admitted that you were.  Is that correct or not correct?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: That is not correct.

MR BRINK: Thank you, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

CHAIRPERSON: Before cross-examination starts, let's just clarify certain things so that the cross-examination does so to cover everything.
	You say you were assaulted?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, that is correct, we were assaulted.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us what happened, how you were assaulted?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: When we arrived, when they attacked this car, the way they pulled us out of the car, they used force.  We did not go out of the car out of our own accord.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interrupt you there.  You are saying that the attack started when they took you out of the car, they used force.  I am going to ask you to tell us what happened.
	The car arrives, the car stops and then?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: When the car stopped, they attacked the car.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they come to the car?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of them came to the car?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: I didn't count them sir.

CHAIRPERSON: It was a group of them?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: I would say on the side where I was sitting, on the left hand side, I was taken by one of them out of that car.

CHAIRPERSON: I am going to ask you to try and go step by step and tell us what happened.  You will realise that we were not there, we want a picture of what happened.  Don't be in a hurry, tell us what happened, if you still remember.
	Take your mind back to that evening, the car stops at the road block, they come to the vehicle and then what happens?

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: When they arrived at the car, they opened the car doors, then they took us out of the car and they said we should raise up our hands.  Then they searched us.
	After they searched us, they showed us where we should stay.  We sat down in a line.  Whilst we were sitting there in a line, they were asking us questions as to whether where do we come from and where do we go, about our work situations, as to whether are we employed or not.  I told them that I am not working, I am a student.
	Then I told them that I was accompanying my brother, those were the questions they asked us.  Thereafter they searched the car and together with our suitcases.  They searched all over the car - the other one, whilst we were questioned as to whether we were working or not.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, can you speak a little bit louder, I also want to have the benefit of hearing you in your own language.  Can you speak a little bit louder.

ABRAHAM MOTHUPHI: The time when they were questioning us, that was the time when they were assaulting us because at that time they said when you are asked a question, you should look at the person who is asking the question, in the face.

CHAIRPERSON: How were they assaulting you?  How were they assaulting you?