Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-26

MR NTSEBEZA: Could you please keep quiet.  Could you please keep quiet, people please.  I just want to make your request, as far as I am concerned, I think what you should do is just put aside this paper, because you wrote this with your comrades, you know what is written there.
 You are not in court here.  Order.  I just want to suggest that you are not in court here, you shouldn't worry about that if you miss the dates, you mix the dates, we are not interested in that, we just want the gist of what you are explaining.  Just, or give this piece of paper to Lulu and then continue as you remember this and summarise it in Xhosa as you remember it.  
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MR MDITSHWA: Thank you Chairperson.  I am glad the comrades have made the suggestion.  I also believe that this democracy in this and people want it to be given in Xhosa.  As I've explained Chairperson in 1981 it is important that I should explain that around 1981 because the Chairperson asked from my aunt here about the 31st of May 1981 - the day Siphiwo was shot at.
 On the 31st of May 1981 the Boers - it was clear that the Boers were very cross because there were pamphlets that were distributed very early on the morning of that day - 31st of May 1981 and that time the Boers were celebrating the so-called Republic Day.  It was the 20th anniversary of - and the pamphlets were distributed, the ANC pamphlets were distributed early in the morning calling for a stay away which we've already mentioned.
 And the Boers then unfortunately one of our comrades who was distributing pamphlets with us was arrested and then the Boers Nieuwoudt, Tungata and Roelofse and Wilkins and others, they raided homes of the comrades who were involved trying to check where we were.  And the slogans were filling all the walls in PE calling for the stay away.
 That night it was clear because they left similar messages in different places that if our parents do not hand us over to get us and hand over to the police wherever the police meet us, they would shoot us.  
 Now when we look back we're looking at what's happening at this time, it was clear for the comrades that there was some truth because the way they worked was very ruthless and comrades organised that comrade Siphiwo and Vusi Matigqiwa and myself should be taken away and away from PE so that we could go to live in Johannesburg for a while, but what 
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happened unfortunately where we were hiding, the three of us, Siphiwo that night he had  a pair of boots which he had kept with another comrade, so he wanted these boots because he said it would be cold in Johannesburg, so he went with Vusi Matigqiwa and another comrade Mondi Spaya and we waited for them anxiously because things were bad. 
 Special branch were filling the place, there was a kombi which was called Fleetline which would be filled with Special branch people.  It was all over the place and we decided we shouldn't go out, but when these comrades didn't come back until eleven, we started being anxious and apprehensive and this comrades Vusi Matigqiwa and Mondi Spaya came back and said comrades, things are bad.
 Siphiwo has been shot at, Siphiwo has been shot at the square, at the Njole square and so we went out to look for Siphiwo at Njole square.  And we looked for Siphiwo, looked for Siphiwo and we couldn't get him and we asked in the neighbouring houses and they said no, no one had seen Siphiwo.
 And we heard the following morning that they did hear some shots and they saw him being chased by the police and then he was arrested.  I think it is important that I should explain what happened in 1981, because that is the day I left PE.
 I think it is also important that we explain because it is clear that in many things the name that always comes out is the name of Nieuwoudt and the other Boers.  For instance Nieuwoudt between 1977 in the Boer Special branch, Nieuwoudt was in the lower ranks of the Special branch.  If you know how the Special branch works - most of the Blacks are Constables and the first ranks amongst the Boers would be 
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that of a Sergeant and Nieuwoudt was at that rank.  He was working under a lieutenant named Roelofse.
 And there were some who were there superiors like Du Plessis and others, Hattingh and so on and so on.  But we should explain it is clear that Nieuwoudt was not alone, he was not the only dog at Sanlam who was hitting people and torturing people, there were big brains behind like Roelofse who was the think tank who planned interrogations, but when the time came for hitting people, then Nieuwoudt would appear because he was stupid.
 He was very stupid.  Nieuwoudt was stupid, but we want to raise this because Nieuwoudt was not alone, there were brains behind him.
 As I've explained even the tactics that they used - the other comrades will fill up on this as well.

MR NTSEBEZA: I want to remind you, let's not spoil the day.  I said the other day when we were talking, let's not make this a rally, let's not turn this into a rally.  Let's not spoil but we want to have a dignified ceremony here.  Something that is very dignified and I accept that there are times when we just feel like clapping, but let's do it in a careful way so that we don't spoil the proceedings.  I don't want this to degenerate into undignified, please.  Thank you.

DR BORAINE: You have not yet been sworn in.

LULU JOHNSON: (sworn states)

DESMOND MPILO TUTU: Before I start Lulu, I just want to ask you to be brief.  Just wrap up the statement given by Monde, because we still have two more people.  We're hoping we will be finished with you by lunch time.  We must call Lulama to testify, that is (indistinct) and then lastly Tango Lamani,
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so I appeal to you to be very brief so that at least by the time we go for lunch if we could be through with your statement.

LULU JOHNSON: Thank you Chairperson and to the members of the Commission, to our mothers here.

MR NTSEBEZA: Lulu, if you have given me a statement ...