Amnesty Hearings — Carltonville — 1998-08-11

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: Comrade Mokome left with comrade Sekome and this was in Block 8 but we are staying in Block 7.  Comrade Mokome left with Sekome to Block 7.  We were still at the party that was being thrown by comrade Mokome's friend.  Myself, comrade Steve and comrade Boyki and comrade Gustaff had remained.  The four of us had remained in the party, comrade Mokome and Sekome had left to comrade Mokome's house.
	As we were sitting there, comrade Sekome came back and when he arrived he told us about the attack of comrade Mokome.  Having heard that we left to see where this happened.  When we got there we found comrade Mokome covered with a blanket and he was in a pool of blood.  I uncovered him to see how much injuries had he sustained.  He wasn't saying anything, he was just lying in this pool of blood.  We covered him again.
	We were busy looking for a car and other comrades were there already.  His family were looking for a car to take him to the hospital and we were standing by as comrades.  We discussed this matter and the issue of this gang, that they have committed so many crimes in the township and in the section and all of these have been reported to the police but they are not taking any action, therefore it is better for us as comrades of the ANC Youth League and the comrades in Block 7, to go out and search for these criminal gangs so that we would hand them over to the community that would in turn hand them over to the police.
	We got information that this gang was being accompanied by the two girls that Mokome was chatting to at the party.  The one was a border at Mokome's house.  We discussed this and we decided that we should find this lady and she should show us where this gang stays in the township.  
	We went to Joel's place and when we got there, Joel himself is the one who - when we entered Joel's yard we proceeded straight to the shack where Rebecca and her parents were staying.  Joel is the one who knocked in that shack and Bafadile is the one who opened the door and explained exactly what happened and even asked her that we needed to buy Bafadile's help to go and show us where this gang stayed.  It's her mother who opened the door and who Joel was talking to, and she gave us the permission to take her with.
	We left with her and went to the tavern called: "White House" where they used to drink, and another tavern which is Lebitsos, when we got there, and when we got to the taxi rank we met, we found a kombi and comrade Steve asked the driver to help us but he can only help us until 11 o'clock because he knocks off.
	He helped us, he took us with this girl and we went to a tavern called: "Blue Lagoon".  When we got to the Blue Lagoon tavern we were told that this gang has just stabbed another comrade called Darkie, who was staying in the Xhosa section in the township, they have just stabbed him.
	They started with comrade Darkie and that is when we decided or we saw that this gang is quite determined to terrorise all the comrades in the township.  From the tavern we proceeded to Spurs Tavern and we found nobody there.  We came back to search for this gang at their homes, their families and relatives, but we never found them.
	On our way, still in this kombi, we were intimidated by BafAdile and told her that she will take full responsibility for comrade Mokome's death: "You'll be the one who will be arrested unless you help us or tell us".  That is when she told us that these people when they are not here in Kutsaong they are in Bekkersdal, they've got a shack there in the X section. 
	We took her back home.  We did nothing to her and even her mother was happy with her.  Having taken her back home, we thanked the driver of the kombi and we went to Leboneng at the same night of the 7th and we had to discuss what to do further, as we got the information that these people, if they are not here they run to Bekkersdal because nobody seems to be able to arrest them.  Therefore we must meet the following day at 8 o'clock in the morning and we should go and search for these people in Bekkersdal.  Yes, we went separate ways to sleep there.
	The following day I had to go with the Interim Committee of the ANC Youth League as we had a meeting that we had to attend in Gagiso in Krugersdorp.  I did not go there because Gordon Mahuma who is the comrade's secretary, came to me and said that we had to go, but I told him exactly what happened yesterday.  I told him what happened the previous night and what our intention, as the comrades of Block 7, have decided to do.  We were going to catch those people and bring them to the community that will decide whether they hand them to the police or not.
	I told comrade Mahuma to put in an apology for me in the meeting.  He did so but he never told me what the response was of the committee.  I went where the comrades had gathered and I found comrade Steven van Rooyen who was telling the other comrades that were not there the previous day, as to what happened.
	On my arrival I told them that I've met comrade General Secretary, Gordon Mahuma and I told him everything that happened yesterday and our intentions as comrades of Block 7 and he will in turn report this to the Interim Committee when he meets.  That is when we decided - as the comrade has already mentioned, we were between 30 and 35 in number, we decided to go to Bekkersdal and we could not all go, only 17 could go.
	We were 12 ANC Youth League members and we had five young pioneers.  That is when Joel Mokoena and Morupisi went to negotiate at the taxi rank two kombis which they came with but he told us that the drivers just wanted petrol ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I think we can stop him about that because we've had that version.  We've heard that so that is quite alright.
	Just proceed further.

MR KOOPEDI: Like it has been indicated by the Chair, we have heard about the negotiations about the taxi and that 17 people left.  Now if you could lead us to when you get to Bekkersdal, what happens when you get to Bekkersdal?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: When we arrived at Bekkersdal, we went to Mandela Section.  That is where I knew comrade Bazuka who was the President of the ANC Youth League at that time in Mandela Section.
	At Bekkersdal we went straight to him with our two kombis.  Comrade Boyki alighted from the kombi.  Comrade Bazuka asked him: "What are you here for"?, then he explained to him that: "We are here in Bekkersdal because we are looking for gangsters who have committed a crime in our township, and we learnt that they escaped to your place".  He asked us as to what kind of help he can give ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Can you skip those details considering that we've got them already?

MR KOOPEDI: We have travelled that path with the first applicant and basically that is why earlier on when I was trying to get you to confirm certain things, you know what he said.  Now I believe you will agree that after leaving Bazuka's place people went to search and further that you went into two groups, do you agree with that, can you confirm that?
	Now after being into two groups and you went searching for these people, what happened?  In which group were you?

ADV DE JAGER: You could actually lead him.  If you go too far we will object to leading questions but you could lead him in order to come to the point.

CHAIRPERSON: Especially where the issues that have already been - we've heard re-version already.  You're putting it rightly as far as he is concerned: "There were two group, which group did you belong to"?  Let's get that.

MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chair, I will take it from there.
	Now there were these two groups, in one group we had the first applicant, Mr Mokoena, were you in the same group with him or in the other group?

MASOBA KHUNTWANA HENDRIK VAN ROOYEN: In our group we were working on foot.