Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-26

MR MORUDU: No, they didn't tell me, they were sitting on top of me in fact inside in the kombi.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did they identify themselves as the police or did they not?
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

JUDGE MGOEPE: 177

MR MORUDU: No, they didn't identify themselves.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Very well, then they drove with you to the Security offices in Pretoria?

MR MORUDU: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Yes.

MR MORUDU: From there they just started assaulting me and they were extremely happy when they 
were busy assaulting me.

JUDGE MGOEPE: How did they assault you? I know it's a long time back, you may not be able to give us 
an account, blow to blow as to what they did, but to the extent that you are able to remember how you were 
assaulted, can you tell us how you were assaulted?

MR MORUDU: I was assaulted with fists, with open hands, kicked and they used a baton also to assault 
me.

JUDGE MGOEPE: All of them, did all of them take part in the assault?

MR MORUDU: All of them took part in the assault but the person who assaulted me seriously and who 
kicked me in the face is van Vuuren.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did you bleed?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Where?

MR MORUDU: From my nose.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did you start bleeding on the way to offices already?

MR MORUDU: No, I started bleeding at their offices and my face was swollen, my hands, my feet and I 
was denied medical attention.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did you ask for it?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Now you are at the office and you are 
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JUDGE MGOEPE: 177

S MORUDU: bleeding, you are swollen and then what happens then?

MR MORUDU: After giving me that page to write down names of the members of my Executive they 
took me to Central Police Station where they couldn't detain me there because those cops there said I must 
first get medical attention before that.  Then from there they took me to Mamelodi Police Station where the 
next day I was taken to Rust de Winter Police Station.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Rust de Winter?

MR MORUDU: Yes. Thereafter about some two months from there or a month, I can't remember very 
well, they came with a guy, they introduced him as "Mike" ...(intervention)

JUDGE MGOEPE: Before they came with "Mike" as you saying that you were kept at Rust de Winter 
Police Station for two months?

MR MORUDU: Yes, that is correct.  Then another thing, they were giving me some white tablets, small 
tablets and they said it will take off the way I was swollen, it will slow it  and ...(intervention)

JUDGE MGOEPE: During the two months, did they come to interrogate you?

MR MORUDU: They never came to interrogate me while I was at Rust de Winter.

JUDGE MGOEPE: And then they came with this "Mike"?

MR MORUDU: Yes, whom I later realised that it was Joe Mamasela.  And - there were three,  van 
Vuuren, Hechter and this "Mike" whom I realised as Mamasela - his face was covered and when one of 
them left he told me in SeSotho that if I don't cooperate with them I am going to be killed.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Now, from that point on were you assaulted again or not?
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JUDGE MGOEPE: 178

MR MORUDU: At that stage they didn't assault me anymore.

JUDGE MGOEPE: The medication that you received from whom did you get it?

MR MORUDU: I was given that by Hendrik Mokaba.

JUDGE MGOEPE: So from the time you were assaulted until, well say, the two months' period, you were 
not seen by a doctor?

MR MORUDU: Yes, I was kept in solitary confinement, no I was not seen by any person.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Thank you.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Were you paid for - as if you were cooperating with them?

MR MORUDU: Yes, at times but at times we just signed that form and they will give you nothing.

JUDGE WILSON: They will give you?

MR MORUDU: Nothing.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.	Now, Mr Morudu, at 
that time can you remember that there were a lot of riots and upheavals and political uprisings amongst the 
Black people, can you remember that?

MR MORUDU: Not specifically during that time when I was arrested because members of the SADF 
were in the townships.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you remember exactly which year this was?

MR MORUDU: Yes. In 1987.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Why was the South African Defence Force in the townships?

MR MORUDU: According to my knowledge they were brought in after a state of emergency.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was there a state of emergency in existence at that time, can you remember?
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ADV DU PLESSIS: 179

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you remember why there was a state of emergency?

MR MORUDU: It was because of the national unrest, the unrest nationally.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Because of the national unrest.

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: And was there unrest in your area?

MR MORUDU: There was sporadic acts of unrest, yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you remember what the reason for this unrest was?

MR MORUDU: I can't clearly remember that.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You can't remember?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: So, at that time, did you see acts of unrest at all in your career or in your life? Did you 
experience any acts of unrest?

MR MORUDU: I only saw them on the television and so forth.

ADV DU PLESSIS: At that time in 1986/87 when you were in the township you don't know what the 
unrest was about? Is that what you are testifying?

MR MORUDU: I said I can't remember. I didn't say I don't know.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can't you remember?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: What the unrest was about?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You also, if I understand you correctly, you can't remember why the South African 
Defence Force was in the township except for the question of the unrest?

MR MORUDU: Yes.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 180

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Morudu, at the school which you attended, did school go on in the normal way 
throughout the time, 1986, 1987, 1985? Did you go to school every day?

MR MORUDU: We went to school but there were times when we stayed away from school for certain 
reasons.

ADV DU PLESSIS: What were those reasons?

MR MORUDU: I can't remember them all, but one of them was when we wanted free books and so forth.

UNKNOWN: I didn't hear that, you wanted what?

MR MORUDU: Free books.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was that the reason why you stayed away from school?

MR MORUDU: Some of the reasons.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you at all remember the other reasons?

MR MORUDU: No.

ADV DU PLESSIS: The other people in the schools, did they stay away?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you at all remember why they stayed away from school?

MR MORUDU: I said I can't remember some of those reasons.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Do you know if any schools in your area were burnt, ever?

MR MORUDU: Yes, I know that where I attended school in I think it was three years or two years before 
I was abducted it was burnt.

ADV DU PLESSIS: What school was burnt?

MR MORUDU: (...indistinct)

ADV DU PLESSIS: Your school?

MR MORUDU: Yes.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 181

ADV DU PLESSIS: Why was the school burnt, do you know?

MR MORUDU: I don't know.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Did you know at the time why your school was burnt, can you remember that?

MR MORUDU: No, in the morning when we went to school we found that section burnt.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You found the school burnt?

MR MORUDU: Yes.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Were there other schools in the area that were burnt at that stage?

MR MORUDU: I can't remember.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Can you recall any other school that was burnt in your area?

MR MORUDU: No.

ADV DU PLESSIS: I am not sure, did I understand you correctly, you were not involved in any situations 
where there were uprisings, crowds, etc?

MR CURRIN: He never said that, Mr Chairman, he said he was not involved in "bombings".

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, pardon Mr Chairman, perhaps I should ask questions to make sure.
	Mr Morudu, were you ever present when people threw stones during that time?