Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-25

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: The undermining would be that the City Council, the right wing City Councils were in charge of the CP or the CP were in charge of them, they would have made sure that the people in these City Councils who stood together with us and when the freedom of the town were given to the AWB, that from there, there would be further action against the government of the day.

ADV BOSMAN: Can you mention any of these actions?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: For example at the freedom of the towns, when we were given that, when the AWB received the freedom of the towns, they said that the commando's, the then commando's of the AWB would make sure that these elections do not continue and they would also protect these people.
	Then they informed us of the planning of Gen Viljoen and the other Generals, Groenewald and they also held meetings where they said how we would protect these towns against what was going to happen.
	I also believed in that, because before the elections if we look at the media and the PAC, they declared war against us when they said this country does not belong to us and we don't have any say in this country, kill the Boer, kill the farmer, one settler, one bullet.

ADV BOSMAN: What actions are you referring to?  (Speaker's microphone not on)

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Fourie, after Du Plessis gave you an instruction, what happened then, what did you do?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I went inside because the people were in the hall.  I walked to Commandant Abe Fourie and I said to him I am going to Pretoria together with Nel and Peet Steyn and he asked me do you want to go and I said yes, I received an instruction to accompany them, to drive with them.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know why you were going to Pretoria?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, I was told about the pipe bombs that we have to go and set off.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you not refuse to go with them?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Chairperson, the whole purpose why we moved up there was quite evident, we wanted to stop the election and we wanted to enforce a Volkstaat.  I believed in this because these were the plans that were made.  Gen Constand Viljoen also made the plans because he said that they planned on a violent cessation of the Volkstaat.

CHAIRPERSON: Was this during the elections?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, the elections should not have taken place.

CHAIRPERSON: And that was Constand Viljoen's attitude also according to you?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, and all the right wing parties and the AWB purposes were to stop the elections.

CHAIRPERSON: How old was that idea, when was this decided that you are going to stop the election?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: The war talk came about a long time before that, and also Trim Park, at that meeting Brig Chris van der Heever came after the closed meeting, and told us that Gen Etzebeth addressed this meeting and he is conveying to us that the people are now moving up, now it is war and this election must be stopped.  That was where this whole thing was finally decided.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Fourie, Mr Abe Fourie who you referred to, he is a co-applicant and is he your brother?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Jaco Nel, was he your junior in rank?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No, he was the Captain and me and Peet Steyn were two Lieutenants.

MR PRINSLOO: So you were his subordinate?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And the next day did you leave with Jaco Nel and Peet Steyn?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, that is correct the next morning, we left very early.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you go to Pretoria?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Sorry?

CHAIRPERSON: With what idea, what would have been the target?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I was told that taxi ranks would be the target.

ADV GCABASHE: Just a short question, you were told by who, just complete that, because you have now spoken to Du Plessis and Fourie.  Who told you about the targets?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Commandant Du Plessis gave me the instruction, after guard duty.  I only informed Abe Fourie that I was leaving with Steyn and Nel to Pretoria.
	He said, do you want to go with and I said I received an instruction, and that was the way it was accepted.

ADV GCABASHE: Yes, but specifically the target, who spoke about the target?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Commandant Du Plessis told me that the target was to be taxi ranks.

MR PRINSLOO: You then went to Pretoria, and what happened there?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: The targets - we did some reconnaissance, there was a lot of Police presence, we could not complete our task there.  When we went to other places, I do not know Pretoria very well, I do not know it at all.
	Then he told us that we were going to friends he knew and we went to this flat.  He introduced us - I still do not know their names, I have forgotten it during this period - and these people told us that later that day, approximately one o'clock that afternoon, they are going to the resort.  AWB people gathered there as well as the Wen Kommando for protection of the wives and children.
	He then talked with them a bit more and Peet Steyn and myself drank coffee.  He talked with these women or had a conversation with them.  Then later that day, we went to town where we made forged number plates in order for them not to identify us.  We looked at the identical car, the same colour and model.  As Mr Peet Steyn gave evidence, he needed shoes and we got some food because we needed it.
	We then went back to where we picked up the number plates.  From there we went to the flat, I cannot really remember the time, but it did happen like that.  Then they gave him the key in order for us to stay there until we had to go.  The evening we drove to see if we could place this bomb or detonate this bomb somewhere.
	The places were still not safe, there were a lot of Police in the streets.  With this, while we were driving, he identified this building, it was a corner cafe and he said we are going to detonate the bomb here.  We agreed with him because I believed that this will have the same effect as if we planted it at the taxi rank.
	The purpose of this bomb, was I believed, was they had to be scared, we wanted to create fear and they had to realise that this election would not take place, they mustn't go and vote.  The instruction was given to Peet Steyn by Jaco Nel to ignite the fuse and to throw the bomb.
	Jaco Nel did light it, the fuse, the door was opened.  When the vehicle was almost completely at a stop ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: You said Jaco Nel?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I am sorry Peet Steyn, Jaco Nel gave Peet Steyn the instruction to light the fuse and then Peet Steyn did that, and threw the bomb.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do, what was your contribution in throwing this bomb?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I agreed when the place was identified.

CHAIRPERSON: That did not help in throwing the bomb?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: I identified myself with that.

CHAIRPERSON: My question is did you do anything, did you build the bomb?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Throw the bomb?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: No, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Nothing, you just drove with them?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: Yes, that is true, but the purpose was to stop the elections.

CHAIRPERSON: But what would you have done?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: If I received the instruction, I would have done it Mr Chairperson because that is what we believed in.

ADV BOSMAN: What did you foresee would be the function Mr Fourie, why did you have to go with?  One person was needed to drive the vehicle and one was needed to detonate the bomb, what was your function?

GERHARDUS D FOURIE: The way I saw it, the purpose was to detonate the bomb, to create fear, to prevent them to go and vote.  But I believe I was there because they chose three for the protection, or if we were in any situation where I believe we had to fight to get out of there, if we were caught, because you will not be caught.