Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-17

MR VISSER: Page 161 Mr chairman, of volume 2, the involvement of the South African Police in both the former Rhodesia and former South West Africa in a military support role, to the Rhodesian Army and the South African Defence Force, necessitated training them in purely military tactics and techniques.  In neither of these situations, they were expected to act as civil police.  Every contact between them and their opponents, led to a bloody shootout, with the result that ordinary civil police functions fell by the wayside.
	The ordinary policemen drawn from the ranks of the police, from the whole country involved in these guerilla warfare and counter-insurgency activities, where he in fact had to kill or be killed, became progressively more accustomed to this type of conflict and the ways, means and methods utilised in combat the enemy and it goes on Mr Chairman.
	It is those ideas that Mr Du Preez says.  In 1979 you were transferred to Port Natal.  In what section, or I will lead you in this, originally you served in the Church Section.  Was this at the desk of the ANC or what desk was this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, there was a Church Section concerning church matters.

MR VISSER: It was completely independent?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: In the Security Branch or in the ordinary branch?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, it was in the Security Branch.

MR VISSER: And in 1981 you were transferred to the Terrorist Section?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Under Colonel Andy Taylor?  Did you receive any special training?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: In the investigation of terrorism?

MR VISSER: Are you an explosives expert?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And at that stage, did you investigate certain incidents?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Can you give a number of the amount of incidents that you visited or investigated?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Mr Chairperson, in that time in Durban, I investigated more than 100 scenes of explosions.

MR VISSER: And were people killed in those incidents?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What time was it?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was from 1981, I would say up to 1990 and up to around 1994.

MR VISSER: You also became aware of the death of one of your colleagues, is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, various of my colleagues died during the period when I was in the Special Branch.  Four of my colleagues died and or were killed by ANC terrorists.

MR VISSER: Amongst others?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Colonel Welman, Zukela, Mike Mbede and Radjo.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Is it so that in 1994, May 1994, you were found medically unfit for the task of a policeman?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And at the May of 1995, you were discharged with the rank of Superintendent?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct yes.

MR VISSER: What was the diagnosis of your state?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was post traumatic stress.

MR VISSER: What would you say led to this state?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think it must have been the politics, the things that happened in the police and the situation in the police itself.

MR VISSER: You are now referring to the violence, etc?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: As a member of the Security Branch, did you feel that you were busy with normal, legal actions or what was your position?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Mr Chairperson, from 1981 in Durban with the beginning of the bomb explosions, we felt that we were more in a war than in ordinary service as police officers.

MR VISSER: Did you feel that you became more and more involved in a political struggle, rather than just crime prevention?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: From time to time suggestions were made that members of the Security Branch killed terrorists, MK members indiscriminately, those that they could catch?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes. No, it is not true, if it would have been the case, I would have been involved in hundreds of incidents or cases, then this amnesty application would not have been just about a few people, but about hundreds of them.

MR VISSER: Would you say that in the incidents where it did occur, would be the exception?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is true.

MR VISSER: Mr Du Preez, if we can continue and get to the point of the political background in the broader terms and we have listened to the evidence of Mr Botha and Steyn and Forster, do you agree with the general political background?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, I do agree with it.

MR VISSER: Do you also agree with the political views with which these actions were executed?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Were you involved in the Ramlakan case?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: In what capacity?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I was one of the Investigators, I also took down statements from people in this incident.

MR VISSER: You also heard the evidence of Mr Botha in broader terms, about what the Ramlakan case was about.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: Do you agree with this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: Concerning Ndwandwe, she was discussed or from Mr Botha, she was involved in the Ramlakan case?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: At one stage, we know in 1987 she left the country and Mr Botha said according to the information, or your information that you received, she received training and she later went back to Swaziland.  Would that correlate with information that you had?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: And from Swaziland she operated as the acting Commander of MK operations within the Republic of South Africa, and more specifically in the area of Port Natal?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know that she was pregnant during 1987?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.  I knew that she had a child later on.

MR VISSER: I must admit Mr Chairman, I wasn't aware of that information myself.

CHAIRPERSON: Newspaper cuttings that we have been given says she had a one year old child, when she was abducted, which would have meant that she was pregnant in 1987?

MR VISSER: Probably.

CHAIRPERSON: The child would have been born in about October.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  In any case, you were part of the abduction out of Swaziland?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Were you familiar with the planning and the purpose of this operation beforehand?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Can you just tell us when you became aware of this operation and what your knowledge was concerning this?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Colonel Botha informed me, I am not sure what his rank was at that stage, it could have been Captain.

MR VISSER: Just refer to him as Botha.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Well Botha informed me that an operation was planned to abduct Ndwandwe out of Swaziland.  He discussed this with me, and we discussed the finer details about how we were going to do this.

MR VISSER: And among others, was there made use of two people?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: If I ask you who these people were, I am not asking you their names, I am asking what their status were of these two people.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: They were informants.