Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-19

CHAIRPERSON: In order to protect the baby, did you go to the bedroom where your sister was?

FLORENCE MOLETE: The all between the bedroom and the kitchen was already down on all these people were inside the shack.

CHAIRPERSON: When you - as I understand your evidence, in the course of the attack on yourself you were trying to defend yourself, but at the same time - well protect yourself, and at the same time you were trying to protect the baby.

FLORENCE MOLETE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And how did you try to protect the baby?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I was trying to take the baby from her mother.

CHAIRPERSON: And can you still recall - I mean if you don't remember, say so, but can you still recall where the mother was with the baby at the time?

FLORENCE MOLETE: They were just next to the wardrobe.

CHAIRPERSON: Would that be in the bedroom?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, Sir.

MR STRYDOM: Was that at a stage before you went out of the shack?

FLORENCE MOLETE: That is before there was a fight inside the house.

MR STRYDOM: Was that at the stage when you anticipated that the people may come into the shack and injure somebody?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Are you referring to the time before the attack, Sir?

MR STRYDOM: No, maybe you're confused now.  You went -according to your evidence now, to Mita to protect her.  Now what we want to know is, when did you go to Mita to protect her?

FLORENCE MOLETE: That is when the fight was already on.  I was asking myself where the baby was.  I was crying that time, I was also being assaulted at that time, so what I wanted was to protect the baby, so that if I die, I die with the baby.

MR STRYDOM: And what did you do to protect the baby?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I didn't even make an attempt because when I was crawling towards the baby I was hit by a knopkierrie and then I fell back.

MR STRYDOM: Then we're back to the first question.  So, did you see your sister and Mita at that stage or didn't you even get to see them?  That's now at the stage when you tried to crawl towards Mita but you were assaulted again and you couldn't reach them.

FLORENCE MOLETE: They were just next to the wardrobe.

MR STRYDOM: So is the answer you saw them?

FLORENCE MOLETE: The lights were on, yes, I saw them.

MR STRYDOM: What light was on at that stage in that room?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Moonlight, Sir.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see the assault on Miriam, your sister?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Mr Strydom, when I was assaulted I was in the kitchen, she was in the bedroom, how could I see her?

MR STRYDOM: No, I'm asking, when you tried to get to them you started crawling to them, did you see that there's an assault in progress on your sister and on Mita?

FLORENCE MOLETE: The fight was already on at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Molete, just take a moment or two and just listen to what I'm about to ask you now.  We've heard from you that you tried to protect the baby ...
WITNESS DISTRESSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis, would you find out from the lady who is assisting Ms Molete, whether she's in a position to continue at the moment.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, could we just take a short adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I'm just thinking - because it's about twenty one, I was just thinking whether we should ...(intervention)

MR BERGER: Take the lunch now?

CHAIRPERSON: ... take the luncheon adjournment and perhaps reconvene at about half past one.

MR BERGER: Please, that would be appreciated.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: I've got no objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  Ms Molete, we will take the lunch adjournment now and we will reconvene and one thirty.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, would it be in order for Ms Cambanis to speak to Ms Molete during the interval and just find out how she's doing and how she's coping?

MS CAMBANIS: I'll clearly undertake, Chair, I undertake not to discuss the evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: I mean, do you have any objection to that?

MR STRYDOM: In the light of the undertaking I've got no objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  And then if there are problems, would you come back to us in the conference room?

MS CAMBANIS: Yes, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Together with the other counsel.

MS CAMBANIS: Yes, Chair, we will.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay very well, we'll rise.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR BERGER: Chairperson, Ms Molete would just like to say something to you.  She says she's got something she wants to ...  Well, she is still under oath.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon?

MR BERGER: Ms Cambanis said that I should just confirm she's still under oath.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  You're still under oath, Ma'am.

FLORENCE MOLETE: (s.u.o.)

FLORENCE MOLETE: There is something that hurts me and that concerns Mita, always when Mr Strydom talks about Mita and Miriam, because the baby is now crippled.

MR LAX: I'm sorry, we didn't get your interpretation, could you just repeat it please?

INTERPRETER: She says the only thing that hurts her is when Mr Strydom talks about Mita and Miriam, because the baby is now crippled or handicapped.

FLORENCE MOLETE: Mr Strydom hurts me when he talks about Mita, because we are struggling about this baby who is now handicapped, so always when he refers or he talks about Mita, it hurts me a lot.

CHAIRPERSON: Is the position that you do not want to be asked questions often concerning the child?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis and Mr Berger, perhaps you should explain to your client what is required of her when she takes a witness stand, because whilst one understands her feelings and the feelings of those who may have lost or had their relatives injured in the attack, once a witness takes the witness stand the witness has to be asked questions.  It would hamper these proceedings if witnesses tell this Committee what questions they do not want to be asked, because if another witness takes the witness stand and then adopts the same attitude, this will render the task of this Committee difficult.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, we have explained to Ms Molete what is required of her when she gives evidence and that Mr Strydom is doing his job when he asks these questions.  At the same time however, Chairperson, the Act requires in Section 11(a), that victims shall be treated with compassion and respect for their dignity and ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think that applies to the victims only, it applies to anyone who appears before this Committee, everyone has to be treated with respect and with compassion.