Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-17

MIRIAM MOLETE: I see another statement which indicated that it was made in Vereeniging, I have never been to Vereeniging, that is the one that is typed.  I have never made a statement in Vereeniging.

MR STRYDOM: Why do you say that the typed statement was taken in Vereeniging?

MR BERGER: Ms Molete is pointing to the address of the Commissioner of Oaths.

MR STRYDOM: Oh, just the address.  Have you ever made a statement in Pretoria?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Those are the same statements that we made in Vanderbijlpark that were sent to Pretoria.

MR STRYDOM: Were you taken to Pretoria at any stage in connection with this matter?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I went there twice except when we were called by Mr Steenkamp.  I went there twice and then thereafter we were called by Mr Steenkamp.

MR STRYDOM: Now you referred to Mr Steenkamp.  Now he was the investigating officer of the criminal trial.  Did he take a statement of you in Pretoria?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I made a mistake, we made a statement in Vanderbijlpark to Mr Steenkamp so the other times we went to Pretoria, we went there twice, when we were called by you, Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: You went there twice?

MIRIAM MOLETE: So when I included that day I went there three times.

MR STRYDOM: You never testified at the criminal hearing is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No.  We were just asked questions.

MR STRYDOM: Did you at any stage refuse to testify at the criminal hearing?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, I never refused.

MR STRYDOM: According to the third statement, the typed statement, it was taken on the 9th November 1993 at Pretoria.  Do you deny that?

MR LAX: With the greatest of respect, Mr Strydom, it was signed on that day before this person at Pretoria.  It wasn't taken there, that's not clear from the statement anyway.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, yes, as you please.
	It was signed, yes it was signed.  Do you deny signing that statement in Pretoria?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I do not deny that I signed the statement but I say that the statement we made to Mr Steenkamp we were in Vanderbijlpark so when we were taken to Pretoria we were just asked questions.

MR STRYDOM: I want to refer you to the statement that according to the statement, that's the second statement, well the three page statement which was taken on the 25th March 1993 at Vanderbijlpark.  The three page statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Why don't we, you know to avoid any confusion, why don't we refer to the statement if it's the 25th March to be the first statement and then the statement dated 20th April 1993 the second statement and the typed written statement the third statement?  Did you get that Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: Yes I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.

MR STRYDOM: Now in this statement you said as follows ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Which statement?

MR STRYDOM: The first statement.

CHAIRPERSON: The first statement, 25th March?

MR STRYDOM: That is correct, on the first page thereof.

CHAIRPERSON: Right.

MR STRYDOM: I'm going to read from more or less the middle of the page.
"At that time I saw the window being broken and the door was broken.  These people entered into the house and two of them assaulted my sister Florence with sticks.  I saw another people pulling my husband out of the house.  I then tried to remove my daughter from the room.  Then before I could remove the child a member of that group started to chop the child with a panga."
Now the question I want to ask you, the person that attacked you and the child, was he one of the people that came into the house initially?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I said he was a White man, he entered alone from the kitchen door.

MR STRYDOM: So he was not one of the people who came in initially with the three people you testified about now?

MIRIAM MOLETE: He was not one of them because those other people did not use the door to enter, they entered from the opening where they have smashed the shack.

MR STRYDOM: Now I also asked you today if you can give any description as to the clothing of the person that attacked you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom, the part that you began reading, just read that sentence again?

MR STRYDOM: "At that time I saw the window being broken and the door was broken.  These people entered into the house and two of them" ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well is that "these" I can't see, it looks to me like a t-h?

MR STRYDOM: It is three, ja.  It looks like three to me as well.
"Three people entered into the house and two of them assaulted my sister, Florence, with sticks."

CHAIRPERSON: Right.  Okay?

MR STRYDOM: And then later on it said
"Then before I could move the child a member of that group started to chop the child with a panga."

MR LAX: Just to put it in context, the next sentence is quite crucial it would seem because it says
"I saw other people pulling my husband out of the house"
So it seems there were quite a lot of people in the house according to what this statement says but obviously you will clear that up?

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, what does the witness say in regard to the first sentence that you've read?  Just reconfirm that, the first sentence?

MR STRYDOM: May I just put that question again?  I've read to you that sentence.  Do you confirm the correctness of that sentence?  Just for clarity I'll just repeat it quickly.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, let me just explain to her.
	Ms Molete, what counsel is going to do now, he's going to read to you what appears in a statement dated 25th March 1993, do you understand that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Remember, this is the statement where in regard to which you've told us that you cannot say whether that is your signature because it is not clear, do you understand that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, now as he reads the sentence by sentence of the statement, would you tell us whether you confirm that or deny the statement that's been read to you?  Do you understand that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you.
	The first sentence I want to put to you:
"At that time I saw the window being broken and the door was broken.  Three people entered into the house and two of them assaulted my sister, Florence, with sticks."
Is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Well I did not see happening to Florence, I may not agree with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, right, the only portion of that statement that you confirm is that you saw three people entering the house?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know with what weapon your sister Florence was assaulted?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No.

MR STRYDOM: And then the statement continues to read as follows
"I saw other people pulling my husband out of the house"
Is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: And then it continues
"I then tried to remove my daughter from the room.  Then before I could remove the child the member of that group started to chop the child with a panga."
Is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, that is not correct there.

MR STRYDOM: Which portion is incorrect or is everything incorrect?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Everything that you have just read is incorrect.

CHAIRPERSON: What he has read to you is
"I then tried to remove my daughter from the room and before I could remove the child a member of that group started to chop the child with a panga."
You say that whole statement is incorrect?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It is not correct because I did not say it the way it is written there.

MR STRYDOM: When you made this statement an interpreter was used, is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I made this statement to a Black person, he was talking to Mr Steenkamp.  That person spoke Sepedi.

MR STRYDOM: Did you understand him?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Somewhere I was struggling, I even requested him to used seTswana, maybe I would understand him.

MR STRYDOM: Do you remember if his name was Lucky Samuel Kekana?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes, I do remember.