Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Is there anything that you want to add, Brigalia?   We have only - I told you right at the beginning this morning that we have a   total of 30 minutes. We have actually already gone beyond that. I will give   you another ten minutes.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much for that lucid submission. I will cut   down my questions from three to two. You have painted a very sad picture of   the position of women within the church. How marginalised women are, there subjugation   and the male dominance and the denial of equality. I just want to find out from   you, what has the WCC programme, that famous programme of the WCC of the decade   of churches in solidarity with women. What has it done for the women's position   in the church. Did we get that solidarity from the churches?

MS CATHY P MAKHENE: To answer that, my dear sister, it has really helped to   maximise the awareness. The churches are aware and particularly on women. I   must say that because this WCC programme is world-wide, quite a number of churches   have support it, but at the same time very few of our churches in South Africa   really show this solidarity with women. There are very few - I'm not going to   discredit all churches now - there are some who have really supported us, because   we have quite a number of women now who have assumed responsibilities with their   churches, and we appreciate that. But much still needs to be done and we do   hope that before the end of the decade, before we go and conclude with celebrations   through the festivities, the word will come to all churches that women through   the SACC assistance, women have organised themselves into a body which now is   called Ecumenical Women's Conference. And we do hope that at the close the decade   and at the beginning of new things, particularly after the TRC completes its   work, that recognition, programmes that women are going to be doing will be   taken seriously by the church. Would you like to add?

MS B BAM: Yes, I would like to add to say that the churches in South Africa,   generally and those churches who are members of the WCC, owe women an apology   for failing us during these last ten years in supporting us, when in fact the   churches have been requested and asked to support us and I think the churches   have to announce a public apology, the churches in South Africa, for not supporting   us and for not speaking out on our behalf, for not carrying out the resolutions   that are related to women. For also not speaking out to support us in this country   as so many of us are raped. The churches have been very silent.

UNKNOWN: I am sure that you are aware that during the hearings of the   TRC, most of the victims who came to give testimony were women, compared to   men and most of those women didn't come even to tell us about their own stories,   they came on behalf of male relatives. What is this women's movement within   the church, the Manyalos and Mother's Union, whatever your call it in different   denominations. What solidarity have you given to the female victims who have   come forward to the TRC and now that we are winding up and waiting for the recommendations   of reparation, what will such bodies be doing in support of these women?

MS CATHY P MAHKENE: Thank you Joyce. Very little is being done by the Manyalo   and I need to qualify that because there are certain Manyalo groups nationally   who really are involved and are giving assistance to some of isolated cases.   The trouble with us, we are so denominationalised, that some people will cater   to cases of women they know. And I think this is the problem. I am saying because   of the observation and having been involved and visited certain areas, whereby   the Manyalos should not be selective. They within the communities, really needs   to come together and do something. There are cases that are being attended to,   but others are neglected. It is unfortunate. Again, because of lack of assistance   from the total church, guidance. Some of the ministers's wives may not realise   that it is their duty to encourage some Manyalo women to take more active roles   within those communities. It is unfortunate but we need to confess and we apologise   for that. We really need to apologise. We have not played the role we should   have been as women who are sent by the word of God to go and tell good news.   Not just tell good news, but the actions should complement all that.

UNKNOWN: From the perspective of the SACC what do you think would be   the way forward in terms of the help before reparation?

MS B BAM: I think that the way forward would be for us to create structures   within the church. Structures within our dioceses, and parishes that are directed   specifically at helping those people who are termed the victims of the system.   Now victims are not only those people who have come to give testimony, but what   we know as victims in our communities. Victims of poverty, victims of all kinds,   so that we have specific programmes that are directed towards rehabilitation.   In the same manner as we had programmes that were directed to the victims of   apartheid. We had what we refer to as the Dependant's Conference. I think we   should revive the Dependant's Conference again and that it should focus on helping   those victims that have come to you and still others that have not, but need   help.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Virginia.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Chairperson. I know that you are anxious to get through   with your programme. I have a small concern for my two sisters there. You mentioned   in your presentation that women often do not affirm other women. You mentioned   the problems that we have and I think this phrase has been said by women over   and over again. But it would appear that we don't seem to move from that mould   of not affirming other women. I wonder if perhaps that now that we are talking   in this session, you could come with a suggestion as to what should be done   to enable women to stand up and affirm other women. Because unless we are able   to recognise ourselves as women who can stand up on our own, as women who can   affirm one another, we will be coming back with the same story of oppression   by men. Men oppress us because we create that space for them to oppress us.

MS CATHY P MAKHENE: I understand you very well. We have a great deal of work   to do to re-educate ourselves as women. We need to realise that we are called   by God to do his work and all the oppressive language that has been drilled   into our thinking you are inferior, you are inferior. Some women believe that   they are inferior, so therefore we need to re-educate ourselves that unless   we stand on our two fee and do things ourselves, nobody else will do it for   us. So therefore even within the church, we need to have programmes whereby   women will prove themselves to realise that we need to be counted as producers,   no longer as being submissive.