Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   To take specific charge of Vlakplaas - Vlakplaas Commando.

MR JANSEN: Did Vlakplaas have a commander before your time?

WITNESS:   Not a permanent one based on the farm.  It fell generally under the section - Colonel Victor, who was Section C2.

MR JANSEN: As you found Vlakplaas at the time who were there and in what kind or organisational structure were they organised?

WITNESS:   There were a few ANC cadres, so-called turned ANC cadres, called askaris, about eight to 10 of them when I arrived there.  They were based at the farm as a place where they could stay in safety, because the police were afraid that they might be tracked down by the ANC cadres and eliminated.  So it was then used as a base where they could sleep, and they were fed whilst staying in Pretoria.  And then when a region would need an askari or two to come and assist with the tracking down or surveillance for possible infiltrates they would connect

MR JANSEN: /up with

MR JANSEN: up with Section C in headquarters, security headquarters, and would arrange and send a car up from the specific region to pick up one, two or three - however much they would need - and take them down to their area and look after them.  They were paid an amount, I think, of R200,00 a month only as informants.

MR JANSEN: So they were not members of the police force at the time?

WITNESS:   They were not, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Did the structure or the - were there at the time - sorry, were there any policemen, official policemen, permanently stationed at Vlakplaas?

WITNESS:   Only Warrant-Officer Letsatsi, who had to look after their welfare as far as if there's any problems to report to headquarters, and forth and back as necessary.

MR JANSEN: Now, did the personnel status of the so-called askaris and the organisational structure of Vlakplaas change during your time as commander?

WITNESS:   It did, Mr Chairman, and especially in the year from August 1980 til the end of July 1981, when the askaris were made official policemen with police force numbers, which entitled them to earn a police allowance as far as clothing was concerned, a far better salary, medical benefits, full police medical benefits, a full police - firearms that they could carry, official firearms.  I arranged for passports, or so-called travel documents and pass books in those days, driver's licences, which would enable them to officially drive with police vehicles.  I also arranged through the quartermaster for proper order forms as far as their food was concerned, diet, for meat, fresh vegetables, cheese, fridges on the farm, a portable generator on wheels, one of the big ones, so that they had

MR JANSEN: /lights and

MR JANSEN: lights and a TV, etcetera.

MR JANSEN: And, as far as the organisational structure of the manner in which the so-called askaris operated?  How did that change?

WITNESS:   That changed in the way that we pulled in - I pulled in seven policemen, with myself eight, with four vehicles, two policemen per vehicle, white policemen in the apartheid era, with a bakkie driven by a black policemen, with whom he would have then four to five askaris, depending on the availability of the askaris.  We would then operate in four teams countrywide on request, and at some times as a full team in a specific area when needed.

MR JANSEN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Can I just interpose here?  When the askaris were appointed as policemen did they have to go for police training?

WITNESS:   No police training at all, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: So besides the askaris, and you, and the persons in command, there was nobody else there?

WITNESS:   No, up til the time, as I say, when Warrant-Officer Letsatsi was on the farm, and then at the end of 1980 headquarters selected Almond Nofomela, another two policemen, I think, John Mpofu and another one or two, to be based on Vlakplaas permanently with me.  And then the white policemen at the farm was Sergeant Koos Schutte, who was actually the foreman on the farm, who was pulled in from the police garage to look after the askari vehicles.  We had operational vehicles, to look after the farming itself;  Warrant-Officer Connie Swikelaard(?), who looked after the claims, the travel allowance and claims;  Captain Koos Vermeulen, who came from Bronkhorstspruit as

CHAIRPERSON: /a - when

CHAIRPERSON: a - when he was commander before, station commander;  Paul van Dyk, who came from Oshoek Border, and more specifically Ermelo Security Branch;  Louis Olivier and Louis Le Roux, Constable Louis Le Roux and Sergeant Louis Olivier;  Constable Braam du Preez, the son of Brigadier J A du Preez.  There was also for a short while Constable van Jaarsveld, Arends van Jaarsveld, which also came from Oshoek Border.  And I think basically - there might be a name or two that I missed out on, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: How long did this process of changing the entire personnel status situation and the organisational structure of Vlakplaas take?

WITNESS:   Basically a year, from August 1980 til the end of July 1981.  We were fully operational on the 1st of August 1981, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Now, I would like to refer you to a document which was read into the record during the proceedings of the Harms Commission.  Mr Chairman, if I could just explain.  What will be read into the record now is a directive relating to Vlakplaas of the 12th of September 1981 by, I think, General Coetzee.  But we do not have the actual document itself in our possession.  That was handed in as an exhibit during the Harms Commission, but we have not been able to get a copy of that.  But it was read into the record, and I will ask the witness to read from the evidence there relating to that document, and we will continue to try and get such a document for the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, you may do so.

MR JANSEN: Yes.  Could you read that document into the record?

WITNESS:   I am referring to page 485 of the proceedings of, I think it's the Harms Commission, as Mr Jansen said.   And the person says,

MR JANSEN: /"I am going

MR JANSEN: "I am going to refer to two documents which are contained in an affidavit by General Coetzee.  The first directive is the following.  It is dated 11 September 1981.  The reference person is Colonel Skoon, and apparently it was signed by Brigadier du Preez and it reads as follows:   "11 September 1981.  Combating of Terrorism, Republic of South Africa.  In an attempt to combat the increasing terrorist threat in the Republic of South a special unit for countrywide application has been established at headquarters.  This unit, which will fall under Group C, consists of white handlers, rehabilitated terrorists, the majority of which are already members of the Force, and ordinary black members.  The unit is divided into separate sections or groups, which will each be equipped with the necessary radios and equipment.  The idea is that these groups or teams be sent to certain areas where there is a need, because head office would be better able to make a determination of where the needs are greatest, and the allocation of teams will be made in consultation with commanders by Group C, and it will be co-ordinated from headquarters.  This is a relatively new

MR JANSEN: /"project,