Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-10-03

MR KOK: I cannot remember a specific stage, it was after the explosion, and 
I only realised who they were during the trial.

MR BRINK: I want to be quite clear on this, because it may be of some 
importance.  Do you say that you only knew of the identity of the people who 
were killed after the explosion took place?

MR KOK: Yes, I did not know them at all.

MR BRINK: You didn't know who these would be, they might not be 
political activists, they could have been bank robbers or common criminals or 
whatever?

MR KOK: I was shortly explained that they were Askaris. This was how I 
can remember that independently.

MR BRINK: Was that after the explosion?

MR KOK: That was during the short discussion I had with Du Toit in his 
office.

MR BRINK: So when you prepared the explosives and you were on your way 
to Port Elizabeth, you had no political objective?

MR KOK: I did, he explained to me in more detail that mentioned Askaris 
that had defected to the ANC or who were in the process of defecting, I can't 
remember specifically, and then we discussed the technical details.

MR BRINK: I understood you to say you were only told about the possibility 
of these being Askaris, shortly before the explosion?

MR KOK: No, I heard it during the short information session in Du Toit's 
office, where he told me what to do and gave me instructions.

MR BRINK: But you were to kill Askaris, that is in effect what he told you.

MR KOK: He said Askaris were involved.

MR BRINK: Did he say how they were involved?

MR KOK: I can remember that it was something concerning defecting to the 
ANC or something like that. I can't remember distinctly, because that was not 
my main motivation.

MR BRINK: You see, I get the impression from your evidence that you 
couldn't really have had a personal objective, you were merely following 
orders from your superiors, prepare explosives, we are going to Port 
Elizabeth, we are going to blow up people.  That's all you knew. Isn't that the 
truth?

MR KOK: If you want to put it as simplistic as that, that was what it was 
like.

MR BRINK: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mention of askaris was made to you before you left for Port 
Elizabeth.

MR KOK: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you not told of members of the security branch to be 
victims?

MR KOK: I don't have an independent recollection, I can only remember the 
word Askaris.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kemp?

MR KEMP: As the Committee pleases. Just two aspects, Mr Kok.  Is it correct that 
you never testified at the trial?

MR KOK: That is correct.

MR KEMP: And secondly, what I want to ask you; at any stage before you 
put the bomb in the vehicle, was it explained to you why the people who had 
to be eliminated like that, had to be killed?

MR KOK: No, never.

MR KEMP: No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Kok, you are excused.

<UNKNOWN>: 484

J KOK: 481

J KOK: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/

EASTERN CAPE: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/

EASTERN CAPE: 486

MR BOOYENS: 482

J KOK: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/

EASTERN CAPE: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/

MR FORD: 490

MR FORD: 485

J KOK: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/

MR BRINK: 494

MR BRINK: 487

J KOK: PORT ELIZABETH HEARINGS	AMNESTY/