Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-01

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: I was picked up at Durban airport in the company of comrade Jeff and comrade Linda Zama, who was a lawyer, who were (indistinct) after addressing at UDW and then he was off to Johannesburg.
	She checked in, as she went in, one policeman just came and said I want this man, pointing at me.  I was picked up, comrade Jeff intervened and said why, who is this man you are looking for.  He said wait here, and then he went back to the office, bringing his document, he came back and said Sipho Sithole and then he picked me up.
	I was taken to Empangeni and then at Empangeni I slept there over night.  They applied for my bail the following day and I was released.  There have been two court appearances on that matter.
	On the basis of which I maintained the fact that I came inside the country because I was given indemnity on the issue.  Linda Zama was handling the issue and the charges were withdrawn.

MR WILLS: Is it your evidence that Linda Zama, the attorney Linda Zama was acting for you in that case?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And that the court proceedings were stopped because of what reason?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: On the basis that I was given indemnity.

MR WILLS: Why - you haven't spoken about those incidents in this application, why is that?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: On the same basis that I was given indemnity, so I felt it was not necessary for it to be included.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Sithole, when you say you were given indemnity, as far as you know, was that indemnity granted in terms of the 1992 Act?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Or was it some sort of political indemnity that was granted?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: According to the 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: But it was in terms of the Indemnity Act?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: I filled forms in exile for that matter.  All those forms were submitted.  I filled it with my own hands, so they were submitted.  It was on the basis of that.
	In fact, I got double indemnity for that matter, it was the first one and then the second one, also which had my name.

CHAIRPERSON: In respect of Mr Khumalo and Ms Mchunu?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WILLS: So it is - just to be clear, you are not applying to this Committee for amnesty in respect of those two incidents?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: No, not.

MR WILLS: And the reason being it is your belief that you have already been indemnified?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Sithole, just before we move on, those two shots that you fired when you were escaping from that meeting, as far as you are aware caused no damage or harm to any property or person?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: No damage at all.

MR WILLS: You then, as your statement indicates on page 32 of the record, you then made your way out of the country quite soon after escaping from this meeting?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes, in fact when I left that area, I came down to Durban because in fact there was an order that I must be shot on sight.
	I came down to Durban, I rested for a while underground, and then I left.  There were roadblocks, in fact the news were on the screen and there were roadblocks mounted all over the place, so I had to cool down for a while, and then after a couple of days, I think it was after five days, then we left.  I used the same road to where the police had mounted roadblocks and then up to Swaziland.

MR WILLS: So the first place you entered was Swaziland?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And then from Swaziland, where did you go?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Swaziland, I stayed in Swaziland.  I then moved from Swaziland to GDR, through Mozambique.

MR WILLS: The GDR being the German Democratic Republic?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: What is commonly known as East Germany?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: East Germany.

MR WILLS: How long were you in East Germany?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: I was there for about five months in East Germany.

MR WILLS: Where did you go from there?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Then from there, I came back to Mozambique.  There is one incident that happened there when I was coming back.  I was supposed to be deployed inside the country, I was - when we were coming into Swaziland, between Mozambique and Swaziland, we were intercepted by Swazi soldiers, which later handed over us to the South African regime elements, who were working for Military Intelligence to be tortured.
	I was tortured more or less to death by those people, but because the incident had happened under the Swazi authorities, UN actually pressed the Swazi's and asked the Swazi government what has happened to this person.  This is the reason I was returned, otherwise I would have been killed myself.

MR WILLS: And the UN you refer to is the United Nations?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: The United Nations, at the time, yes.

MR WILLS: On your return to South Africa, your return to South Africa, was in what year?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: It was in August 1991 if I am precise.

MR WILLS: What were your operations from 1991?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: In 1991 I was approached by military HQ, I think the same that that Advocate was talking about which almost mislead him into believing it was some conspiracy that was happening in the ANC, it was an order by the military Headquarters to establish commands of MK, we had just got the whole army into the country, and then what do we do with the army inside the country?
	You need certain forms of structures that will be in a position to handle all those elements in the country, otherwise soldiers, they are just thrown around without any command or anything.  Then you (indistinct) problems.

MR WILLS: What was your role in respect to those structures?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: In that, I was responsible for any political activity by those structures.  I was responsible for anything to do with ensuring control of all those structures of MK.

MR WILLS: But in what geographical area did you operate?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: In Southern Natal.

MR WILLS: In Southern Natal?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Is this the position you referred to earlier in your evidence when you were MK Chief of Staff in the Southern Natal Region?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, we have heard the evidence of both Mr Radebe and Dr Phillips concerning the establishment of SDU's and particular emphasis has been placed on the procurement of arms for those Units.
	You have been present at the proceedings?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Do you confirm what both Mr Radebe and Dr Phillips have said in relation to your activities in the procurement of those arms?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Just to concentrate for a while on, to take the evidence of Dr Phillips in a bit more detail.  His evidence was to the effect that you would be the person in the Southern Natal region, that would be responsible for collecting the weapons that arrived and also responsible for distributing those weapons, is that correct?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us how you set about this task?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: It was a simple one.  When it came into the country, I had had experience even before of handling cadres, the infiltration of personnel, I had done it before, I have done border reconnaissance, I was able to deploy people anywhere in the country, so I had that experience.
	Some of the people that were inside the country, were deployed by me from Zambia for instance, using Transkei for instance.

MR WILLS: Slow down a bit please, because of the interpretation.

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Sorry.  So when I was approached for this task...

MR WILLS: Who approached you for this task?