Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   That is correct.  It was on the 11th of September in 1976.  I was just going out of the country.  It was because of the boers who were oppressing us, as well as their tortures, that made me decide that I wanted to leave the country.  I was heading for one of the countries where I could be trained to be a soldier for the Umkhonto we Size.  As we were in the train we got to Durban Station.  We could not even stop.   The police had already come into the train together with black policemen.  They were having all sorts of weapons.  Then when they got into our compartment they said we must all stand up and they wanted to search us.  They could not get anything because we did not have any weapons with us.  They collected us and they arrested us.  They manhandled us.  These were not boers.  I do see the others, but these were not police.  There were also dogs.  It was as if Durban was owned by the boers.  It was in the afternoon round about half past five.  Each and every one of us was taken into the cars.  Each and every one of us was put into a separate car.  We were taken back to Pietermaritzburg.  When we got to Pietermaritzburg I think it was at about quarter to six or 6 o'clock when we got to 'Maritzburg.  As we were getting out of the cars we wanted to wee because we were scared that the whites had got us.  We were taken to a floor, a certain floor.  We were separated when we got there.  Each one of us was put into a separate room.   As we were going along the way they kept on asking us where we were heading for.  I tried to hide as to where I was destined for.  I told them that I was going to Lamontville to visit my other relatives.  They said to me I was talking rubbish.  They told me that I was going to tell the truth.  I thought they were just joking.  I got into my own room.  That is where I got a certain man by the name of Driemeyer, as well as Mr Potgieter and other men.  There was quite a number of men besides the ones we came out with.  There were quite a lot of them.  They looked as if they were just fresh from training.  The manner in which they treated us we were being asked where we were heading for.  I kept on saying that I was heading for Durban.  Then that's when the trouble started, the way they assaulted me.  I was even assaulted by my very own people.  There is one black person who had a T-square, the very big one and the very hard one.  When I was being hit and kicked he was busy hitting me with the T-square on the head.  I tried to persevere, but I felt they were not satisfied with my denials because they apparently had some information about me.  They kept on asking me.  I felt so much pain at that time because I was severely assaulted.  They said to me they knew everything, but they wanted to get it from the horse's mouth.  And they told me that all the others had told them stories about me, now they wanted me to say it with my own mouth.  I still felt I should tell them lies.  I told them lies, knowing fully well that I was wasting my time.  They asked me as to why I wanted to skip the country.  I explained to them that it was the way in which we were suppressed, as well as the 1976 riots when they were killing black children.  That made me lose my mind, and as a result I decided that I should leave the country because I thought that the boers were still going to continue killing our people.  I told them that I wanted to leave the country because I wanted to go and learn how to hold and operate a gun, so that I could come back and protect my own community.  It was as if I was pouring water over the duck's back.  They assaulted me.  I felt that I knew being assaulted, but this was definitely something else.  They told me to take of my clothes.  They took little stones, gravel, they put them inside my shoes.  They told me to put my feet inside, then they tied the shoes so very tightly.  They told me that I should do a frog jump 100 times.  It was very difficult for me to reach that 100 jumps.  It was very painful because I had already been kicked and assaulted.  When I get tired, maybe after jumping six times, there was this man who was having this T-square, and he kept on hitting me on the head with the T-square.  That wasn't the last they did to me.  They told me that I should be naked because I could not jump 100 times.  They said to me I should take my clothes off, and they told me that they were still going to deal with me accordingly until I tell them the truth.  They took certain needles.  They said I must display my fingers, then they put these little needles in my fingers.  After that they said to me I must press on the table 50 times.  That was very difficult.  Each time I hit the table I felt some pain because I am human.  I couldn't even hit the table 10 times.  By the time I got to 10 each time I didn't do it there was this T-square that was busy on my head.  I ultimately got to 10.  Just as I got to 10 they told me to continue.  I told them I wasn't able to do so.  That was enough, because I was bleeding by that time.  The one with the T-square was busy with the T-square.  Each time he did it.  Each time I didn't do it he would just hit me with the T-square on my head.  I also have scars to show.  Even though I may not be able to identify him, but I knew.  They were black policemen who were fetch from Newcastle.  I was assaulted until the following morning, then at 5 o'clock I was made to undress once more.  They took a towel, they made it wet, and they tied it into a knot.  They used that towel to assault me.  They even kicked me.  Each and every one of them just wanted to do something to me.  They wanted to assault me.  I could see that they were from training.  At about six in the morning - I don't remember quite well what time it was - they said we should go into a car.  I was taken into a certain car.  I couldn't walk properly, I was limping.  I was put into that car.  I didn't know where we were heading to.  I was taken to Mooi River.  At Mooi River Police Station I stayed in a tin cell.  That was very cold at that time.  In Mooi River it's very cold.  Staying there at Mooi River was part of the torture that I had gone through, because in the tin cell there were holes.  Whenever I was asleep there were rats that were coming in through the holes, because I had to take this enamel plate and hit it down so that the mice might run away.  I had to sleep quite for a few hours and wake up.  I was being awoken by all the rats.  They gave us porridge three times a day.  There's no sugar.  They give it to you in the morning - morning, noon and night.  They used to put it at the door at round about four in the afternoon.  There's a little hole through which I used to peep and see the porridge.  That porridge I think at times used to come at six or half past six, ever since they have been putting it at one.  I would even see the birds that were hopping on top of the porridge and eating the porridge.  Then by the time the porridge comes to me the birds had already soiled it, and I had to eat that part because there was absolutely nothing for me that I could do.  There were certain times where the Magistrate of that place used to come, every after 14 days, to come and ask me as to whether I had any complaints.  I used to tell him what my complaints were, but that was as good as not telling him because there was absolutely nothing that he used to do with the complaints that we were giving to him.  I told him that he must come for the very last, because each time he asks me questions but he never does anything about them, there's absolutely no change that takes place.  He is just asking me these questions for the fun of it.  That was the last time the Magistrate came to see me, because I really spilled hot beans on him.  I did not wash at that time.  I think three months lapsed before I could get a bath.  My hair looked like I was mad.  My beard was long.  At that time my beard had turned red because I didn't see the sun.  After about three months it was in the morning, I think it was round about eight, one of the boers of that police station came into my tin shack.  He asked me whether I wanted to wash.  It was very cold during that day.  Then I said to him really I wanted to wash because I was full of lice.  I said I did need to wash.  I went out.  I was guarded.  The people who were looking after me had guns.  When I went to wash they followed me with guns.  They opened up very cold water.  Just as the water was being opened, as my body was still scared by the very cold water, even before I was started washing they would say "You had finished now, you had finished washing," even before I started.  I was told that I should dress because I had finished.  All in all I didn't wash.  I was just brought there to be got into the cold.  I stayed there until it was summer.  We didn't get water to drink.  At times two days would lapse without you getting any water to drink.  At times when it was raining I used to put my little place so that the rain drops could come in.  That glass you see in front of you is too much.  When I had taken only sip the water would get finished, then I had to put the place once more for the rain to drip in.  Whenever I reported to the station commander he said there's nothing that he could talk to me, I had to talk to the SB which had brought me there, because they knew nothing about me, they could not help me.  I got a toothache later on.  I reported that I had a toothache and I wanted the tooth to be extracted.  I was told that there was absolutely nothing that they could do, there's nothing that they could help me with.  When the SB Unit was told that I had a toothache they said that I couldn't go and see a doctor because I would run away.  I asked them how could I run away when I was in so much pain.  They told me that I thought I was clever, I wanted to run away.  I had this toothache for quite some time without getting any medical attention.  After I had chased the Magistrate away the food changed.  I think the food changed because of my conduct.  I had not seen bread for three months, because I had been eating the pap three times a day every day of the week.  Then there came a loaf of bread as well as the smallest tin of fish, without food at 9 o'clock in the morning until the following morning at nine.  This bread was supposed to last me the whole day.  I would get another ration the following morning.  So it meant every day I had to eat this tin of fish as well as this loaf of bread.  In this tin there's about two pieces of fish, which I had to finish with this loaf.  And I had to get some water, which I couldn't lay my hands on.  Now I didn't know what to do.  They know that fish makes you thirsty.  After having eaten fish you feel like you can drink a lot of water, but I never got the chance to drink the water because water was not available.  From there they took me to Mshwathi, New Hanover.  At New Hanover it was a prison.  There my hopes were raised a little bit because the room in which they put me was still new.  Apparently they had nobody who had occupied the room.  The blankets which were brought in were so dirty and was full of lice.  We were forced to fight with the chief of the prison that we could not use those blankets, because we were not arrested for stock theft, we were from our own homes where we were comfortable.  We were arrested for struggling, for being involved in the struggle for fighting for our rights.  When we demanded the blankets, because the place was clean and we felt that these blankets were not befitting the place that we were given, they had to change the blankets and gave us better blankets.  There were even washing facilities, hot and cold water.  There was a toilet inside.  It was a direct opposite of Mooi River, because at Mooi River I was eating and the toilet was right in front of me.  That was slightly better.  But the food there was terrible, because I used to eat the prisoners' food.  At times they would give me food and tell me that, "This is soup," only to find it was just boiled water.  The food was not healthy.  I stayed at Hanover I think it was plus/minus three months.  There was a slight change in that we could sit with other people who were fetched from their homes.  We were able to even converse, talk.  We used to talk, and I used to lose my concentration most of the time.  I did not want to explain to them as to why I kept on drifting in and out of concentration.  I am wondering as to whether our children are going to grow up in the suffering and go through the very same suffering that we went through.  We stayed at New Hanover I think it was three months.  At times there was a district surgeon, Dr Strait, who used to come.  He was a district surgeon.  Whenever you explain or tell him that you were sick he would say, "Katha, katha."  I don't know what he meant by "Katha, katha."  Maybe he meant that you should katha in Zulu if you wanted to be attended to medically.  I don't know whether he was a doctor really, or he was just sent by the Government, or he was a veterinary surgeon.  Whenever he wants to extract a tooth he wants to inject you right at the back of the throat, and now I didn't know whether he wanted to deal with my tooth or he wanted to inject my throat.  Because according to my knowledge your gums had to be injected in order for the tooth to be extracted.  I asked him as to whether he was a real doctor or a veterinary surgeon.  This doctor leave just - they took me later on to Boston.  When I got to Boston the station commander was Greer.  I stayed in my cell all by myself.  I was from sharing my cell with other people, but now in Boston I was in solitary confinement.  But it wasn't very difficult in solitary confinement because that boer who was there didn't have the same heart as his fellow boers.  He was more sympathetic.  The very first time he saw me I explained to him that I had not seen the sun for a year now.  I said to him he should help me, because I was not planning to run away so there was absolutely no need for them to be tough on me.  As I have already said this boer was more sympathetic.  He phoned the SBs.  The following day I was told that I should be able to exercise, to go out of my cell and do little course.  I asked them that I wanted to exercise, either do some gardening or do some cleaning.  He told me that I should come and sit outside.  Whoever didn't know that I was a prisoner would have thought I was one of the policemen, because at that time life was a little bit more relaxed at Boston.  I could not listen to the radio or get a newspaper because I was not supposed to know what was happening around me.  I don't know what that meant.  I stayed at Boston.  It was a little bit more relaxed.  It was not like Mooi River.  Moor River was the worst where I got tortured.  Even being tortured I was tortured more in Mooi River.  I think this T-square caused me a lot of confusion, and what made me even more annoyed is that it's a black person who was hitting me.  Now I did not understand why this black person was torturing me so much, because he was part of my struggle, I was fighting for him too as a black person.  In August, whilst I was still at Boston, I saw the boers coming to fetch me.  I wasn't even told where I was being taken to.  They said I must just pack my belongings and come with.  I got into a car.  We drove off.  We went to Bulwer to fetch another one.  We proceeded to Howick and fetched another one.  We came back to 'Maritzburg.  When we got there we were told that we had to go home, and we had to come back the following day to report.  We did not know why we were being released.  Why were we being arrested in the first place, because there was no case?  We were given no date to come back for the case.  We went back home.  The following day we came back to report at the police Station.  They were happy at home when I came back.   They even gave me money to go and buy a chicken to celebrate my arrival.  I went there.  Did I ever come back with a chicken?  Because when I went to the police station they told us that we should stay.  We were arrested once more.  We asked as to why we were arrested.  They told us that they needed to do some investigations.  We were taken back to Boston.  It looked like we would stay for quite a few weeks, but that wasn't like it.  We came back in November 3 in 1977.  Then we were arrested up to 1977.  We were released without being told.  They used to come and check us.  On a particular day just next to SPCA there was a certain sergeant, a police sergeant from the SB Unit.  He was shot.  He was staying at Sobantu.  It was Sergeant Zondi.  When this happened the boers came to my place.  I didn't even know that they had shot a certain sergeant.  They just got in.  My elder brother had a car.  They asked as to when last was the car driven to town.  My brother never used the car so much, he only used it on Friday.  I explained to them that it was my brother's car.  They got into the house, they asked about the car.  They asked me as to what I was doing.  I explained to them that I am not doing anything because I couldn't get any job.  Whenever I got a job, once I started working a few days thereafter I would get arrested.  When I get to the offices I would be told that I am being retrenched.  At times I would even tell my wife that I've got a job, and I would go to the job for only a few days.  Thereafter I would be told that I am being retrenched.  Each time I got a job the boers used to follow me and go to my workplace.  They used to threaten my employers that if they did not retrench me they would do something to them.  It was for quite some time that I was looking for a job.  Each time I get a job it went back to one and the same thing.  I got tired now of looking for a job, then I decided to just sit around and not work.  I had children who needed to be supported.  I tried to think as to what I could do to make ends meet, and I have a friend who likes gambling.  Then at times he would come and show me how much he has earned from gambling.  Then I realised this is the only way that I could earn a living, I should be involved in gambling.  Then I tried to get some money and I got involved in gambling.  My children realised that I was into gambling, because my children's friends used to see me gambling and they used to tell my children, and my children were very traumatised by this situation.  And there was absolutely nothing that I could do because I had no job, so I had to gamble.  I was just a father in name, but not in deed, because whenever my children wanted anything, whether they wanted shoes or uniform, I used to tell them that I will try some means, but three months would lapse without me getting any money to buy my children shoes.  I could not give them money for transport, I could not give them money for school.  My wife ended up baking cakes so that she could sell them.  I wasn't winning at gambling.  At times I would get money, at times I would not get money.  I was getting R200,00 and R150,00 each time, which was not enough to support my family at that time.  That is the type of life that I lived.  My children were so traumatised because that put me in financial trouble.