Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-01

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, you indicated previously that you had a relationship of some sort with the deceased.  Did you have any prior - before this incident with your grandfather, any previous grudges against him or problems with him?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No, I never had any problems with him.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, how do you feel today after committing the crime?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: The truth is I volunteered to come here because I cannot rest.  I wanted to come forward and accept what I've done because I don't have any rest.  I wish the families were here so that I apologise to them and I'm not requesting for apology because I'm serving a ten year sentence.  I requesting for apology because I want to get rest and I regret what I've done.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla, if you look at the severity of the crime, just getting back to the way things were going in Lashampondo at that stage, was there any alternatives for you?

CHAIRPERSON: Come again, I didn't understand your question properly Mr Claassen?

MR CLAASSEN: As it pleases Madame Chair.  Mr Ndlangamandla, in the place where you're staying Letlampondo at that stage, was the situation prior to the election highly politicised?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I had no other solution, I had to do what I did.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think that was the question that was put to you by Mr Claassen.  Mr Claassen?

MR CLAASSEN: Madame Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlangamandla does not appear to have understood the ambit of your question, won't you put it back?

MR CLAASSEN: As the chair pleases.  Mr Ndlangamandla, in the township Letlampondo where you were staying just prior to this incident, in a day to day basis between the various political parties present, was there a tense atmosphere?  Would you describe it as politicised, was it tense?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes there was political tension, IFP didn't want ANC in that area.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Ndlangamandla and you say that today you feel great remorse about what has happened?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I do.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madame Chair, no further questions at this stage.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CLAASSEN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Claassen.  Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to put to Mr Ndlangamandla?

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair, I do.  Mr Ndlangamandla, in your application you say your grandfather was a chairman of the IFP, is that correct?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes, that is correct.

MS THABETE: When was he actually the chairman of the IFP, during what year?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He was a chairman before me and I don't know how long.  Maybe I'll say I was ignorant of the period.

MS THABETE: Maybe I should rephrase my question?  At the time of his death was he still the chairman of IFP?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes he was still.

MS THABETE: So would you say that - maybe I should ask this first - so do you know a person by the name of Mglenene Shadrick Vilalazi?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No I don't know him.

MS THABETE: So would it be correct to say you don't know that Mglenene Shadrick Vilavazi was the chairman of the IFP when your father died?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I don't know Shadrick.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete are you suggesting that Mr Mglenene was the chair of the IFP at the time of the death of Mr Ndlangamandla?

MS THABETE: Madame Chair, according to our investigations Mr Vilavazi was the chairman of the IFP at the time of Mr Ndlangamandla's grandfather's death.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that must then put to Mr  Ndlangamandla to comment.  I think it was not - it did not come out properly.  Mr Ndlangamandla, the question that is being put to you is are you aware that at the time of your grandfather's death Mr Vilavazi was in fact the chair of the IFP?  Are you aware of that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No I'm not aware.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know Mr Shadrick Vilavazi?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No, I don't know him.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge there was only one chairperson of the IFP in your area and that was your grandfather?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed Ms Thabete.

MS THABETE: I'm indebted to you Madame Chair.  You say that a meeting was called at your home, would you call it?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes it was a caucus meeting.

MS THABETE: What I want to establish, was that an IFP meeting or was it a family meeting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: It was an IFP meeting, maybe I should elaborate on, it was an IFP meeting because we took decisions as to who was going to stand for me if I'm arrested and I was shot by IFP members that they were going to be there for me if I'm arrested.  That's all.

MS THABETE: Why I'm asking you this question Mr Ndlangamandla it's because when you were asked earlier on who were the people at the meeting you mentioned your family members and you didn't mention anyone from outside, you couldn't remember anyone from outside.  That's why I'm asking you whether it was a family meeting or it was a IFP meeting?  So I want to put it to you that from your evidence earlier on it looks like it was a family meeting.  Do you want to comment on that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I want to comment.  The sad thing is that I've forgotten the names of the people who were present but what I can add is that when I was arrested the IFP supporters came and bail for me, the money which helped me came from the IFP members.

MS THABETE: So are you saying, I just want to get this fact correctly, are you saying that the attack on Mr Ben Nkosi was not a family revenge it was a political revenge, is that what you're saying?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes that's what I'm saying.

MS THABETE: Then maybe you can clarify a statement that you wrote in your application on page 3 of the bundle at number 11(b).  You say
"My slogan says if you kill me I can defend myself, if you kill my family I can defend if I'm there.  No one can approve that without his family, he can survive."
Something like that.  Can you explain your statement what you meant by this?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I don't know what you're talking about.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have the bundles in front of you?  Do you have page 3 with you?  The pages are they numbered or not?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes they are.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you see where it says 11(b)?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I can.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your handwriting?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes that's my handwriting.

CHAIRPERSON: Then you will see there that you are saying your slogan says "If you kill me I have to revenge or to defend myself.  If you kill my relatives or my family members I have to revenge.  Can you see that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I can.

CHAIRPERSON: This is what Ms Thabete read, it's your handwriting.  Now how come you're saying you don't know what she's talking about?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I would like to apologise to that part, I've forgotten.

CHAIRPERSON: Now can you answer her back now that you remember?  She wants to know that as you've explained in paragraph 11(b)?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Do you mean explaining to her?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes because what you've explained there you're telling us that you've killed because your relative has been killed.

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes what I can explain is that it is true, an eye for an eye.

CHAIRPERSON: No I think the ambit of the question is that what appears to be quite glaring from your response to paragraph 11(b) is the fact that the act was committed because of a family revenge and not a political revenge as you have now sought to state in your evidence in chief?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I was a leader of the IFP and I took a stand as a member of the IFP.