Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-29

CHAIRPERSON: Which is where, of which was where?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: It was in Road 15.

CHAIRPERSON: Now Road 8 and Road 15, are they parallel to each other, or do they run off each other, or what?  How do you - okay, carry on, answer.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: They are a distance away from one another.

CHAIRPERSON: Parallel with each other, or do they run at right angles or any angle to each other?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: They are not parallel, they are far from each other and they are not in a straight line.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the shortest distance one has to use to get from Road 8 to Road 15?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: You go along Road 13 and then that takes you to Road 14 and then you would get to Road 15.

CHAIRPERSON: Now is Road 13 at right angles to Road 8, or is there another way you could use ...

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: They are at right angles.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there another route you could use to get to Road 15 from Road 8?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: You could also go along Road 1, but that will take you longer.

CHAIRPERSON: Now these people who had objections to your distributing pamphlets and so forth, were they known to you?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, I knew Zwelibanzi well, but the other one was just a resident who was not close to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Now were they known political opponents to...

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: One that I was aware of as being a political opponent was Zweli who to me was similar to an askari.

CHAIRPERSON: Now did you know where he was staying?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, he resided at Road 18.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  And in Road 13 were there any known political opponents there?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, prior to this incident, there were some people who resided at Road 13 who had been our political opponents, but that was no longer the case.  The war was over.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, tell me, when you went back to Road 8, you say that you went there to recover the pamphlets and the motor cycle.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you armed?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No I was not armed.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have intention of fighting with anybody at that time?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not have any intention at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, when you went up Road 13, did you have any intention of fighting with anybody?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, there was no intention.

CHAIRPERSON: Now I see in your affidavit, you say that you did not - well, Ms Mohamed, this affidavit that I have is not signed.

MS MOHAMED: Sorry, Mr Chairman, the statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Well whatever, it's not signed.  Have you got one that's signed?

MS MOHAMED: I'm sorry ...(indistinct), but the contents have been read to him and he understood and confirmed that.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, can I rely on the contents in order to ask him certain questions?

MS MOHAMED: Yes, Judge.

CHAIRPERSON: I see in this statement that you intend signing, you say you associated yourself with the ultimate action of killing the deceased on the basis that it was political.  Now I need you to deal with the following issue.  If you had no intention while being in Road 13 of even fighting with anybody, how could you associate yourself with the killing, on whatever basis?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: At the time that he was killed, I was also present.

CHAIRPERSON: But you had no intention to kill him, isn't it?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't even have any intention of fighting with him?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I had no intention of fighting with him.

CHAIRPERSON: And actually you don't know why he was killed?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I learned about it later during that day.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, but at the time when he was killed, you didn't know why he was killed?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: At that time I did not know the reason.

CHAIRPERSON: And you did not contribute to his death, is that not so, in any way?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not contribute anything.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Mohamed.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Nyathikazi, I'm going to take you back to a point earlier in your evidence when you said that, this is the point at which Mondo's girlfriend made some eye signs and you followed her gaze to a point where you noticed people standing next to a tree and there was a certain house alongside this and Mondo then went inside that house.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, that's what happened.

MS MOHAMED: Okay, now where were you when this was happening?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I was standing on the road with Robert Sitembiso.

MS MOHAMED: Do you know why Mondo went into that house?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, Mondo went in there to shoot at the deceased.

MS MOHAMED: Do you know whose house that was?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I only knew the son by the name of Hewa who resided at that home, who was a taxi driver.

MS MOHAMED: Okay now when Mondo went into that house, what did you do?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I remained standing on the road.  When the gun shots went off, we all scattered in different directions.

MS MOHAMED: Could you see who was firing the gun shots?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes.

MS MOHAMED: And who was that?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: It was Mondo Mkhize.

MS MOHAMED: Now when you said that you heard the gunshots going off, you all scattered.  Where did you go to?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I ran towards Road 14.

MR LAX: Sorry, can I just interpose.  Why did you run away?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I could not tell who was shooting who because I began to hear gun shots from the direction of the tree.

MR LAX: But you've just said that you saw Mondo shooting.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: That's correct.

MR LAX: So who else was shooting?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not see anybody else shooting.

MR LAX: So again, why did you run away?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I was trying to save myself, because the bullets were flying all over.

MR LAX: Was that because Mondo was shooting randomly?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: He was shooting towards the deceased.

MR LAX: Well then how could bullets be flying all over, if he was shooting at the deceased and not in your direction?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: There were shots that were coming from the direction of the tree and I was not sure if the people at that house were also returning fire, but I did not see anyone.

MR LAX: You didn't see anyone shooting at you.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not see anyone shooting at us.

MR LAX: Did you see any flashes of gunfire coming from that house?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not see any gunfire because there was a fence.

MR LAX: Please continue.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I fled and later met Robert Sitembiso and Mondo Mkhize.  I inquired if no one amongst them was injured and they confirmed that no one had been injured.

CHAIRPERSON: What is Robert's surname?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Ngobane.

MS MOHAMED: What else did they tell you?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: It's only Mondo who told me that he has shot at the deceased and he was not sure whether he had died.

MS MOHAMED: So when did you hear that the deceased had died?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I heard when I was informed that police had been at my home.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Nyathikazi, I'm going to take you to an affidavit in this bundle ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on there, when you were in Road 13 and Mkhize's girlfriend indicated the presence of these people, as I understand you, you say this group of people were standing near a tree.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And at some stage during your testimony, you said you could not see who was actually shooting, because they were at this tree, did I understand you correctly?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Will you please repeat?

CHAIRPERSON: For some reason you could not see who was shooting there in Road 13, correct?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I said Mondo was shooting but I did not see anybody from amongst those people who was shooting.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, did you know who these people were?