Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR BRINK: Then the trials were separated.  It was thereafter you pleaded "not guilty"?

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right, Sir.

MR BRINK: Now what I want to know is this, that having regard to the fact that during your incarceration and detention before your trial, you realised you had done a great deal wrong and you were full of remorse.

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right.

MR BRINK: And you wanted to come clean.

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right, Sir.

MR BRINK: Why did you plead "not guilty" initially?

EUGENE MARAIS: Sir, that was on advice of my legal team at that stage to get the separation of trials on which they insisted.

MR BRINK: Right, all right.   Now, you say it was the Orde Boerevolk's policy to retaliate if White people got killed.

EUGENE MARAIS: That is correct.

MR BRINK: How did you know that was the policy?

EUGENE MARAIS: That was told to me by Mr Botha, Sir.

MR BRINK: When you left Richards Bay that evening to travel to Durban.

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right.

MR BRINK: What was in your mind, what did you think was going to happen?

EUGENE MARAIS: I don't know, Sir.

MR BRINK: Well you and Botha and Smuts had discussed the matter at Botha's house.

EUGENE MARAIS: I can give you a bit of history which might substantiate my answer.  During my stay in Kempton Park where I was an active member of the AWB, at that stage the members of the AWB were very much against Black people moving into the White townships - White suburbs, and especially going into White hotels and visiting White entertainment areas, and we would have gone some nights on trips looking for these people and chasing them around and chased them out of the suburbs.

MR BRINK: Yes.

EUGENE MARAIS: And I must honestly tell you, Sir, when we got into the car that night leaving for Durban I thought it would be a similar exercise.

MR BRINK: Well, I - can that be right, Mr Marais? You see, you say the fact that these Whites had been attacked that day was the talk of the town.  Botha had called you to his house and told you to bring your rifle, correct?

EUGENE MARAIS: That is correct.

MR BRINK: Now that surely wasn't with a view to chasing people out of hotels or bars or whatever - people of different colour.  That can't be the case, can it?

EUGENE MARAIS: I know what it sounds like, Sir, but I can tell you whenever we went on these little excursions and wherever we went one always took every available weapon with - it was the show of being macho, the show of force, and you've got a weapon if you should ever need one.

MR BRINK: Well, when you left Richards Bay for Durban, you didn't think that anyone was going to be attacked or killed?

EUGENE MARAIS: No, Sir.

MR BRINK: But you were going down to make - I've heard it said - some sort of political statement.

EUGENE MARAIS: That is correct.

MR BRINK: What sort of political statement? Chasing people out of hotels and pubs?

EUGENE MARAIS: Sir, at that stage I was under the command of Mr Botha, and I knew that the decision on our actions was going to be taken, and that he was going to give us orders, and I knew I was going to do it.

MR BRINK: Are you saying when, when you came to shoot at the Putco bus, was that the statement you were making shooting - the political statement you were making by shooting at the Putco bus without the intention of injuring or killing anyone.

EUGENE MARAIS: Sir, it might sound contradictory if I answer it wasn't our intention to kill or hurt anybody, because shooting with an automatic weapon one must assume that that's going to happen.

MR BRINK: But that wasn't your main intention?

EUGENE MARAIS: Our main intention was to make a political statement.

MR BRINK: By damaging the bus?

EUGENE MARAIS: Sir, yes and the political statement was twofold.  Firstly it was to show the Government that the road which they've taken in February 1990 was wrong and it was leading to conflict in this country.  The second objective was to show the PAC and any other freedom movement that if you mess with us you are going to get hurt.

MR BRINK: Yes, is that by taking revenge and killing people or merely by damaging the Putco bus? That's all I want to know.

EUGENE MARAIS: Sir, I'm sorry if I sound weary, but I have seen what happens with the word revenge and weerwraak ...  [intervention]

MR BRINK: Well, I don't want to prejudice you ...  [intervention]

EUGENE MARAIS: The argument about terminology ...  [intervention]

MR BRINK: Let me put it another way.  I don't want to prejudice you.  Was the political statement for whatever reason you wished to make it, was the political statement that you wished to make, to kill people or to damage the Putco bus?

EUGENE MARAIS: No, Sir, you must see it as a whole.  It was shooting at a bus with people inside to make the statement.

MR BRINK: You knew that they would be killed?

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right, yes, we wouldn't have fired on an empty bus.  If that might clear the question.

MR BRINK: But you see, you - earlier in your evidence you did say that at Botha's house you decided that there should be a reaction.

EUGENE MARAIS: That's right, yes.

MR BRINK: And the reaction was to go to Durban and kill people.

EUGENE MARAIS: That was the result in the end, yes, Sir.

MR BRINK: Didn't you endeavour to tell Botha that a far better way of making your political statement would be to possibly to throw a bomb at the Durban PAC offices?

EUGENE MARAIS: I did not Sir, and you must take into consideration that we had to make use of whatever we had at our disposal at that specific time.  As it was heard in evidence earlier, it was decided that we had to do something immediately.

MR BRINK: You see, it strikes me that not withstanding the fact Botha was your superior, you strike me as being the more intelligent of the three people who have given evidence here today.  Wouldn't you have been in a position to say to him "Listen, Botha, we can't just go and kill people indiscriminately.
Let's rather gather our thoughts.  Get some ammunition or bombs and let's attack the PAC offices, that will make a statement.  That will show the PAC"?

EUGENE MARAIS: Well you can conclude that, Sir, but as I said, our intention was to react immediately.  We did not have our hands on bomb-making material.  The only thing we had was the firearms, number one, and number two is, I was not in a position to question Mr Botha's authority at that stage.

MR BRINK: You're putting all the blame on him?

EUGENE MARAIS: No, Sir.  I take full responsibility for what I did, and that's why I am here today.

MR BRINK: Yes.   Now, did you not think perhaps that if you wanted to make a statement there were other ways of doing it -  a political statement - other ways of doing it?

EUGENE MARAIS: Yes Sir, I am sure we could have thought that way, but we didn't.

MR BRINK: Did you ever consider the repercussions which, thank heaven, never took place? The possible repercussions of your having wantonly murdered innocent people, Black people.  Did you think of any possible reaction - enormous reaction that that might have led to.

EUGENE MARAIS: Yes Sir, and I can tell you what we thought the reaction would be.  We thought the PAC would stop attacking innocent people.

MR BRINK: You didn't think they would go forward and kill even more innocent White people ...  [intervention]

EUGENE MARAIS: No because ...  [intervention]

MR BRINK: And you would go back and kill and it would be a never ending spiral of violence.

EUGENE MARAIS: In retrospect, Sir, I can see that it would have led to a vicious circle but what I am trying to tell you our state of mind that night, and that is what we truly believed.

MR BRINK: And are you sincere in your repentance?

EUGENE MARAIS: I beg yours? Pardon?

MR BRINK: Are you sincere in your repentance?

EUGENE MARAIS: Yes Sir, I am.

MR BRINK: Thank you.

JUDGE WILSON: Mr Marais, I've got a - who do you think was organising this attack ...  [intervention]