Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Nozizwe.   I think you remind us and we often forget that today, whilst we sit enjoying the fruits of the democracy that a lot of women didn't survive and didn't make it and didn't live to enjoy what we now have.   And we need to thank God for every day that we are still alive, but we also need to remember that the struggle of women is not yet over.   That legislation is in place which makes it possible for women to do better, but that men often fight against women becoming more powerful, and that we must remember that that struggle still goes on.   And we also need to make a special effort to remember the contributions of those women who made it possible for us to see days like today come to fruition.  We thank you for setting that in place so that other women may tell their stories today.  Thank you for sharing that with us.

WITNESS:   Thank you for giving me the opportunity.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: We have been asked to ensure that the witnesses who come from the Free State ... (inaudible) ...

CHAIRPERSON: (END OF SIDE A)

CHAIRPERSON: 1B/0 (START OF SIDE B)

CHAIRPERSON: SOPHIA MATSELISO LIPHOKO

CHAIRPERSON: ...

WITNESS:   Thank you, Lady Chair.   I will try and speak to you in Sotho.  If I can't, then we will talk in Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: I would like you to introduce yourself before you start.

WITNESS:   I am from the Free State.   I am here today because I need to tell my story, what happened to me.   In 1986 I was going to shop, it was 7 o'clock in the evening.   When I arrived at the shop I met a policeman, he was driving a Hippo.   I was taken to hospital because I don't know, I can't recall what actually happened to me.  One guy came to my house and told me that David has been shot.  David is my son.   And I was confused, I didn't know what actually happened.   This guy who was driving this car asked me for David's ID.   And they told me I must take David and cook him and eat him.   And then they told me that they actually wanted to know from me when was I going to bury him, so I told them I don't know.  From there, the police who shot my son was Mathuga(?).   The magistrate told me Mathuga is not guilty.    I will - thank you very much, Ma'am.

CHAIRPERSON: I will like you to clarify some few facts to me.  When you were relating the story, it is like - this thing happened in 1986.   Was your son involved in politics?

WITNESS:   I was shot on the 2nd of May 1986, he was shot on the 9th, same year.

CHAIRPERSON: You said you were - he was a politician.   Did you have a membership of any organisation, or did he have a membership card of any organisation, political organisation?

WITNESS:   No.   I don't know.  On the 9th in the morning he left home, he said he was going to work.  At about 12 o'clock one guy came and told me that my son has been shot.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were told that your son has been shot, and when you were preparing for his funeral, people were coming to your house and they were relating lot of things and police were coming to your house.   What was it?

WITNESS:  Reverend Mogaphani(?) was the one who was talking at the funeral.

CHAIRPERSON: The way the police talked to you, were there things which they said which were - which they were supposed to say to you?

WITNESS:   All I can tell you is that it was so sad when they told me I should cook my son and eat him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.   I would like Yasmine Sooka to give others a chance to ask you questions.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like us to go back to where you were shot in your house.   What happened to you, where did you go for help?

WITNESS:   I needed transport and I couldn't find the transport to go to hospital, but eventually I went to hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: What's the name of the hospital?

WITNESS:   Wedumele(?) Hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Do you still remember the doctors who saw you?

WITNESS:  No, but I still have a card.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Another thing I would like you to clarify is, you said they  shot your house using a rubber bullet.  Do you know who did that, whether police or people?

WITNESS:   I don't know their names, but they were police, white police. Were they SAP?   ---   Yes, SAP, white SAP.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: You also mentioned Mr Mogaphani.   Who is Mr Mogaphani?

WITNESS:   He is my neighbour.   His son was shot as well.   He is now late.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: And his son, what about his son who was shot?

WITNESS:  He is also dead.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Did you go and report this to the police?

WITNESS:   You mean about my son's death?

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: No, I mean about you?

WITNESS:   With mine it was just a rubber bullet, so I didn't report it, but David's case was heard and Mr Mathuga, the policeman was the one who shot my son.   He shot my son.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Was he arrested?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't, but he was fired at work, he was no longer a policeman.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Do you think he was dismissed from SAP because of killing David?

WITNESS:   I don't know but that's what I think.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ...    story, I couldn't help but feel that you are a very strong strong lady.   The very fact that you are here today, to share the story with us, it does show that you are a survivor.   In the history of women, when the  perpetrators  wanted to torture and harass them, they did it  through their  own children.   I would like to know from you, how did the death of your son, how did it change your life and that of your family?

WITNESS:   Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: Can you tell us how it changed your life and the family?

WITNESS:   I felt very sad.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... your family with your kids still the same?

WITNESS:   It has changed, I can't work for myself and my husband as well can't work. Losing the sight in one of your eyes affected you badly.   Can you tell us briefly how it changed your life as well?   ---   I can't see very clearly and I am always having headaches.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Question not interpreted)

WITNESS:   Yes, the doctor is giving me.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... who have done in Orange Free State, Mama Liphoko, is that we have organised with the health department to give help to people like you.

WITNESS:   They aren't able to help us.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... that when you go back, you get in touch with our staff in Bloemfontein, so that they can help attend to your health problems.

WITNESS:   I don't have money, I will need money for transport to go to these doctors.

UNIDENTIFIED COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ...   that you will approach the TRC offices  in Bloemfontein, and  get  some help.   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama, can I just ask you a few questions, please?    When you were shot by the rubber bullet, was this shot - did the rubber bullet hit your eye?

WITNESS:   It was on top of my eye.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have any vision in the eye afterwards, can you see a little bit, or is it almost completely blind?

WITNESS:   I am slightly blind.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... at the time that he was killed.

WITNESS:   He was born in 1963.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever consult with any lawyer so that you could bring a case against the police for the shooting of your son, or for the damage to your eye?