Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I'm in a situation where I'm standing outside and I have restrained heavy control, I'm behind a pillar, I'm looking at people who are busy tearing posters and doing all sorts of things and I don't know how to phrase this but amongst the people you find ladies amongst the marchers who would run to you, towards you and the only thing that they do when they reach proximity is to turn the other way around and lift their dresses and skirts.  I mean why should I shoot at a person who does that, that's to me a mock attack.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: Did you become agitated by this behaviour?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair the situation was tense and yes it's a behaviour which I perceived and believe is an insult and I am not too sure why I was insulted and yes I believe any other person, including yourself Your Honour if somebody can just, for no apparent reason, insult you.  You may want to remain your calm but you may get angry so yes I was upset.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: Amongst this group that was now actually preforming the attack, I'm referring to the incident where you shot at them, did you notice any women amongst that group.  Can you remember?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I cannot remember.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: As I understand your evidence, as you were retreating you were firing and the marchers were still approaching you.  Now as you reached the corner on Plein Street, why did you stop firing at that stage?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: After turning into Plein Street there's no way that I could have been in a position to shoot at the same direction where the marchers came from because I had turned into the corner.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: But wasn't your whole purpose, or one of your aims to defend Shell House at that stage.  Are you saying that you then retreated completely.

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I don't know how you understand retreat.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: Were you actually fleeing for your own safety or something at that stage.  Were you actually fleeing, running away?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I'm a human being and I had said and I want to repeat that as a person, besides being trained, besides having all the military training and all that, I was scared and I feared for my life and the reason that I retreated is to try and save myself and save the lives of other people that were around me.  Yes I was scared yes.

MS VAN HUYSTEEN: Just lastly, the objectors on whose behalf I'm appearing, their position are exactly the same as those of the other objectors.  I have no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN HUYSTEEN

MS PATEL: Mr Chairman, my apologies before that I have just one point that I'd like to clarify.  Mr Beea you've already been questioned at length about your perception that the crowd was moving quietly.  Now if I read your evidence given at the inquest, if you can turn to 6910 thereof please, 6-9-1-0, from about I think it's line 12 where you're being questioned by Adv Voster.  Do you have it?  My understanding is that your response to the question as to your perception of the group that this relates to you being on the 18th floor.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: That is correct.

MS PATEL: Would you have, from the 18th floor, been able to hear whether the crowd was chanting or singing or making any noises?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No I would not have.

MS PATEL: Then can you please explain why you said or explain your response at that stage that you said that the crowd was moving quietly.  What is that based on?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair it's based on what one had observed before because this is not the first march that one had witnessed from the IFP.  We've seen the IFP march in the townships before, long before this and I don't recall or remember the marchers sing without - it's a pity I cannot demonstrate - without, even if you are at a distance, even if you can't hear what they are saying but the way in which they would do whatever they do, it would tell you that they are dancing to what they are singing to so those two things, those two elements were not present.  I therefore drew the conclusion that this is coming or approaching quietly because none amongst the group was doing that and that's why I think, even at the inquest, the question was posed as to whether do I say they were disciplined.  That is how I understood the question then and that's how I understand the question of discipline being raised today in relation to the quietness.

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chair, I have not further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes re-examination.

TIPP: Just one aspect, Mr Beea in connection with the boardroom on the 18th floor.  Whose boardroom was that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair as I said one belonged then and still belongs to an intelligence agency.  The boardroom as we understood then no one could gain access into that boardroom without the permission of the Head of the Directorate which was Mr Ntlhantlha and the keys to the boardroom belonged to Mr Ntlhantlha so there was that saying amongst ourselves, we took it as an extension or an extended office of John Ntlhantlha although it was a boardroom further away from his own office but you could not have gained access without asking and of getting permission from him and the keys.

MR TIPP: Thank you Chairperson I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR TIPP

CHAIRPERSON: Against the background of the information which you had received that there was going to be a march by the supporters of Inkatha on Shell House, and that information is confirmed by at least two groups of marchers having approached and passed Shell House without any serious incident.  It is the third group of marchers that were involved in the shooting that occurred.  Is that correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes Chairperson it is correct, this is the group from de Villiers Street specifically.

CHAIRPERSON: Now then when you went down with your gun, did you say to yourself I'm only going to use the gun if the shoot at me or were you going there with a gun to be part of a unit that was going to protect Shell House and the people in Shell House?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Honourable Chair I did say at the inquest and it's in my statement that I was going to reinforce security downstairs and by that I meant that I was going to be part of the people who were there to protect Shell House and the lives of people within and ourselves outside.

CHAIRPERSON: If that is so then you left me with the impression that you only opened fire because you felt that you were being attacked personally, that it was a personal matter and that if you were not attacked and shot at personally, you might not have fired back?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: No Honourable Chair that's not the impression.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm wrong in forming that picture in my mind, is that it?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The truth of the matter Honourable Chair is that I formed part of a group of people who were out to defend the ANC, it's property and the leadership so I do believe Honourable Chair that should any of my colleagues at any given point in time, should they have been under attack, and I was outside, I would have been compelled to shoot to repel because they are part and parcel of people to be protected.  It's not only the leadership and the property and ourselves also as individuals should any one of us be under attack, we were obliged to defend one another.

JUDGE NGCOBO: Mr Beea there are just two aspects that I wanted to clarify.  As I understand your evidence in regard to the directions from which the gunfire that you heard emanated from, that aspect of your evidence is based on your impression, not necessarily of what you saw.  Am I correct?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The gunfire and the group that was charging form part of that.  I saw a group coming and it is this group that is charging that I see that I link the gunfire that I hear and link ... (intervention)