Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

WITNESS:   Even with the changes.  It's not a place where we had good memories, you know.  It used to be.  It was the most incredible bar in Durban.  It had a fabulous vibe.  The people were happy.  They used to come there to let their problems - to shy away from their problems.  But every time I pass, even whether it be in a motor car or walk past, I can't bring myself to go back in.  It's too horrific. Now, lastly, in your statement, and in our interviews, you have felt that the least that should happen is for McBride to be withdrawn from the post that he holds.   ---   Oh, that is the foremost on the top of the list.   This is for the 26 victims.  May this be their victory for the 10 years that they still suffered, and are suffering for the rest of their lives.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now, in your statement also you said, "We have tried approaching Robert McBride to no avail."  Could you expand on that please?

WITNESS:   Well, I had a visit from the BBC, and he apparently did an interview and he said he contacted McBride.  One of the victims contacted McBride as well.  And he - there was no comment.  He promised somebody that he would see them and talk to them, and we waited for this, but nothing has come of it.  I don't think he's ever contacted one of them.  And I feel - we don't wish him any harm - I've always said this, because it's not in our values - but we just feel that his post is wrong, and that he feels no remorse.  He has no conscience about these people.  Has he ever seen any of them, what he did to them?  I don't think he's ever seen or spoken to one of them.  And this is what the problem is.  How can a man like this become who he says he is?  You've got to have some Godliness somewhere.

MR NTSEBEZA: You also stated that you would wish that he should apologise.

WITNESS:   I think that would be a very good thing, but I think the first thing is for him to step down.  This post is not for him.  It's for a man of standing, a man that stands for something in South Africa, and it's not a very good light for us to take and look upon if this is the kind of man in the position he's going  /to be

MR NTSEBEZA: to be in.  I think he needs to apologise to a couple of the bomb victims, or an open apology, if he can bring himself to do so.  And I feel that there are so many victims that are still badly off.  They need some kind of help.  They definitely need some kind of help.  We have Rashid, the little Indian flower seller.  I think he was 14 at the time.  He's now 26 or 27.  He can't get around.  He was blown away from the stomach down.  He has no compensation.  He has no life and he has no future.  What are they going to do for him?  There are many like him that need support, whether it be medical support, financial support, or even counselling, just to get this away from them.  They need it.  And I think if McBride turned himself into a helper we might feel differently towards these people.  We might just feel differently.

MR NTSEBEZA: Is there anything else that you would like to ask the Commission to do were it in their power to do so?

WITNESS:   All I am concerned about are the victims that are left with suffering.  They have suffered the last 10 years, and all I want them to do is perhaps, if they need medical assistance - I know Rashid needs transport, a form of a wheelchair that he can get around and have a bit of a life.  There's a lot of the ladies who have enormous injuries.  They need medical help.  There's one Pretoria girl I know.  Her breast and her arm was blown away.  She was 19 at the time.  She's gone into recluse.  She is hiding.  What kind of a life has she got ahead of her?  Her parents cannot afford to put this correct.  They don't have the facilities in South Africa, or don't have the money.  So I think these victims need to be traced, sought after, and looked after - somewhere, somehow. I notice that you don't say anything about yourself.  Your concern seems to be about the others.   ---   No, that's correct.  I'm old now.  I've had my good times in my life.  I'm fine.  I just want to see - the deafness, well, I am going to be more deaf in 10 years time, but who cares?  It doesn't really matter.  And the legs don't matter any more.  I don't wear bikinis and that sort of thing, so it's okay.  I would like to see something done for these people.  I have started a fund.  I am going to do my own collection.  We are going to do it through some bank, nominate who's ever got the highest bid to start, whatever bank it is, and I am going to do a fund-raising campaign.  And that is it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Well, Helen, you are a remarkable woman.  But if you were Tina Turner I'm sure you would worry about those legs.

WITNESS:   Oh, I wouldn't worry.  I would be able to give the first million.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

DR MAGWAZA: I am raising my hand now because I want to follow up on what Mr Ntsebeza has just said, that when people are exposed to the type of trauma to which you were it's not only physical injuries that matter.  There is a lot of mental suffering, mental pain and trauma as well.  I've heard you talking about nightmares.  I've heard you saying that you can't even get yourself to go back to the Magoo.  I've seen you - I've seen the pain.  I'm almost in touch with it.  I've seen you cry.  I am just wondering if you could just reflect a little bit in terms of how this thing has - how has it affected you mentally?

WITNESS:   Well, I'll tell you a little story.  I'll tell you a quick one.  I know you've got a long day.  The worst side of this for me was I have - at the time I have a daughter and two sons, and my daughter used to go across the road to Panda Inn, just across the road from the Parade Hotel, because Mommy was working 24 hours a day.  And they used to have their little sessions across the road, 14, 15, 16 years old at Panda Inn.  And I told them 10 o'clock on Saturdays was their night out.  10 o'clock to come across to the hotel, show their faces through the door, and I knew they were safe, put them in a taxi and send them home.  Every Saturday was their night out.  And this is the most horrific thing.  They were late that Saturday night, thank God, because my daughter and six other girls whose mother's worked there would have walked through the door at 10 o'clock in the evening.  So I might have lost her, plus the girlfriends.  And, you know, although it didn't happen, when you close your eyes and you visualise this whole bomb effect, I visualise my child walking through the front door, and that scares me more.  It's just a memory, but I can't lose it because it was so horrific.  If they weren't held back for some reason I think we would have lost six teenage girls coming through the front door, and this to me is horrific.  I used to sit up screaming at 3 o'clock in the morning, and my mother running through, bless her heart at 84 years old, and say, "I can't go on like this much longer.  You're going to give me a heart attack.  I can't keep running through and helping you.  I can't."  And this happened for months.  I still close my eyes and I hear it and see it.  And that's me.  What about the other people?  They're the ones who sustained all the injuries, so they have to live with those.  How do they do it?  How do these people survive with the injuries and the mental - and mental sometimes is worse than physical, and they've got both.  And this is the question I ask.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.  What I would like to say is that I would like to see you take care of yourself.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   I'm fine.  Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Your story is very painful and touching, and now I am very much concerned about your children - even more than you.

WITNESS:   My children are big enough now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Because as you are telling it it just frightens me.  Has not it affected your children?