Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Because I was a member of the SDU.   To be honest, the death of Blanko and Bulelwa hurt me so much.  As I arrived in May, in May I went back home in Eshela(?), because we had some function, traditional function, I stayed there until August, I came back in August and in the yard I had left behind Thobile Luphindo and his wife.   On arrival, I found a report from Luphindo to the effect that we now have a problem, these boys, well I didn't know them, because I just heard about them when I arrived there, he then indicated that these boys had now killed a person and they were coming back to apologise.   I was hurt and I though there is so much carelessness maybe in the SDU or among the boys, because they were part of us, and on serious consideration, I thought, I learned that these boys were no longer our party, they were now on their own.

UNKNOWN: Was the killing of these people connected with the SDU duty to protect the community?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct, because we were trying by all means to cleanse the township of corruption and bad behaviour, because at the time we were fighting Inkatha, we ended up calling them gangsters, because that's what their deeds indicated to us.

UNKNOWN: (Indistinct) benefited from the killing, personally?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: There may be, there may not be, if you look at this very well, you will understand that the community got peace, but I realised that the parents and the relatives of the deceased were now affected emotionally.   That is why I cannot say I personally did not benefit.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything that you received, anything of value, because you killed these people, you received, or paid, something like that?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Let me put it simple, no, I did not get anything.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MADASA
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, no questions from me.

MR MALAN: And not from me, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Motata?

ADV MOTATA: Just one or two, Mr Chairman, thank you.   Mr August, where did you find or get the axe which you used after the SDU's with AK47's have run out of bullets, namely Michael Armoed?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: As a member of the SDU, I know the laws and the policies, that when things are bad outside, as we were watching over Bulelwa's body, I had to have my own weapon, where accordingly to befit a person who walks at night, just like the police wearing their uniform, we too were wearing our own clothes carrying your own axe or AK or your knobkierie.   That night I went to my place and fetched my things, because I was coming from my own place, I had drunk.

ADV MOTATA: When you were patrolling, would you carry your axe with?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you, chairperson, I've got no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand it, you say all members of the SDU knew that if there's a whistle, you've got to arm yourself and go immediately to the place where the whistle is coming from?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it correct that a member of the SDU would go to, would have been present at the place where these people were killed without being armed?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that was possible, but the rules, SDU rules, as to their operation, no-one would go to the place where the whistle was blown without being armed.

CHAIRPERSON: You mentioned youths who were supposed to apologise.   Who were those?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Would you please repeat your question, Mr Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: I heard you talk about some people who were supposed to apologise?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I cannot remember very well having said anything about people who were supposed to apologise, except that when I arrived, I got an information from Luphindo that these boys came to apologise to the SDU for killing a person, yet the person is an ANC member.

CHAIRPERSON: When did they come to apolo..., who were those boys who came to apologise?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: It was the very same Youth League, the very ones who deserted the SDU.

ADV MOTATA: (Inaudible)?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: I cannot say, because I also got this from the person whom I left behind at my yard, he explained to me what happened during my absence and the people who did this came to apologise to the SDU because they had killed an ANC member.

CHAIRPERSON: The deceased had been killed?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Yes, that is correct, they apologised after having killed the person, after killing the person, I'm not sure whether it was Majosi, and after killing the person, they learnt that they had killed a wrong person.

CHAIRPERSON: The boys who were coming back to apologise, what were they apologising for?   Were they apologising for killing Bulelwa and Blanko, or ...(intervention).

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: No, they were not apologising for that, they were apologising for having killed Majosi, the one who had a spaza shop, the one who was a member of the Communist Party, yes, that is correct.

ADV MOTATA: (Indistinct) or Mr Madasa commence or says something arising from our questions, Mr August, Mr Mokoena, before he take leave of that seat today, he expressed sentiments to the families that of forgiveness.   Do you associate yourself with those sentiments?

JOSEPH MOSHE AUGUST: Mr Chairman, I associate myself with what he said, because it is not good that we killed these people.  Looking back, they were not living in their homes, in the shacks in which they lived, those were not their homes, after having killed these people, it transpired that we have made a mistake, we had wronged the community, and because of that, I too am one of those who are apologising, asking also on behalf of others who have not said so yet.   Those who were with us in the SDU, we too lost our temper and we were forced by circumstances at the time.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I've got no further questions.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY ADV MADASA
NO FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr August, you may return to your seat.
	Well at this stage we will adjourn and reconvene tomorrow morning at nine o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS