Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

MR SIBANYONI: Yes, Mr Chairperson.
	You spoke about two SDUs, one known to the community, the other not known to the community.  My question is, did the SDU known to the community attack any police?

JACK MOFOKENG: No, it did not.

MR SIBANYONI: If I say to you it's for the first time that I hear that there was some SDU which was operating underground, not known to the people, what would be your response?

JACK MOFOKENG: I've got that information, that is how this was explained to me by Isaac Mohomane.  So I'm surprised that is the first time that you hear about that.

MR SIBANYONI: If the community did not know about your structure, the SDU, how would they approach you and ask for protection?

JACK MOFOKENG: They did not have the powers to approach us.  They were supposed to approach our commanders and our leaders and our commanders will come to us and give us instructions.  That is, people including Isaac Mohomane they will give us instructions to protect the community.

MR SIBANYONI: Did Isaac Mohomane tell you why when completing the forms you shouldn't mention his name but only when you appear before the Committee?

JACK MOFOKENG: He told me that it was not necessary.  He said to me it will only be necessary if I mention his name here before the families of the deceased.

MR SIBANYONI: When he was assisting you, were you alone or were you in the company of the other applicants?

JACK MOFOKENG: It was only the two of us, me and Mr Mohomane.

MR SIBANYONI: Can you perhaps briefly explain how this attack took place, who actually shot at the two policemen?

JACK MOFOKENG: It's myself and Isaac Mohomane who shot the two policemen.

MR SIBANYONI: How many times did you fire the shots?

JACK MOFOKENG: I don't remember, maybe it can be nine or ten times, but I don't remember well.

MR SIBANYONI: What type of weapon were you using?

JACK MOFOKENG: I was a 9mm.

MR SIBANYONI: Do you know how many times did Mosia fire shots?

JACK MOFOKENG: Mosia did not shoot because he did not have a weapon, it's only myself and Isaac Mohomane who had weapons.

MR SIBANYONI: Sorry, I wanted to say Isaac Mohomane.  Did you notice how many times he fired shots?

JACK MOFOKENG: Well I don't remember, it may three times or four times, I don't remember well because he was armed with a 3.7.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, no further questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thanks.  Mr Mofokeng, are you related to Mr Mofokeng, also known as Craig Khumalo?

JACK MOFOKENG: I've already explained that.  I've never that person until I was arrested.  I was only told by my commander that there is somebody known as Mofokeng but I've never met him.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know what the point was in having two types of SDUs, why have an underground SDU and an open publicly known SDU?

JACK MOFOKENG: To my knowledge people are not interested to join this SDU which was operating underground.

CHAIRPERSON: No, the question was, what is the point in having ...(end of tape)

JACK MOFOKENG: The importance was that was to protect the community.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but that was also the function of the SDU known by the community, the ones which we normally hear of.  They were created for that purpose, it's apparent from their name, Self Defence Unit, but why have an underground one that no-one must know about?  If you don't know you must just say so.

JACK MOFOKENG: Well I don't know, maybe my commander knows that.

CHAIRPERSON: You say there were four of you in your unit, the four applicants here?

JACK MOFOKENG: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: Your unit just consisted of you, the four applicants?

JACK MOFOKENG: Yes, it was only the four of us because other people were not interested.

CHAIRPERSON: Was this your first operation?

JACK MOFOKENG: That's correct, it was my first operation.

CHAIRPERSON: So you joined the SDU in 1991 and you had no operations for the rest of 1991, the whole of 1992 and then your first operation was in June 1993?

JACK MOFOKENG: That's correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And yet you used to meet twice a week with each other, or at least with your leader?

JACK MOFOKENG: That's correct.

DR TSOTSI: Now what were your regular meetings for if not to plan for operations?

JACK MOFOKENG: The importance of these meetings was to plan.  There were many things that we were discussing, including planning of operations.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mhlaba, do you have any questions arising out of questions that have been put by members of the panel?

MR MHLABA: No thank you, I've got no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sesele?

MR SESELE: No thank you, Mr Chairman, no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR SESELE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Sir, no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mofokeng, that concludes your testimony.
WITNESS EXCUSED