Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-18

MS THABETHE: Thank you Madam Chair.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe do you still have further witnesses to call in opposition to the applicants' applications?

MS THABETHE: No Madam Chair, that concludes my evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Moloisane, where do we go from here?

MS MOLOISANE: Madam Chair and Committee Members, it has come to my attention that comrade Mabusa Mhlongo has arrived.  I have had the opportunity of consulting with him, and I am therefore of the intention to call him to come and testify, and I therefore withdraw my earlier request that he be sent for psychological or psychiatric assessment.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we will then hesitatingly accede to your request, and we'll allow you therefore to call Mr Mabusa Mhlongo.  Ms Moloisane are you in a position to call Mr Mabusa Mhlongo now?

MS MOLOISANE: Correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: What language does he speak?

MS MOLOISANE: Sotho.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you please stand up Mr Mhlongo?
Give us your full names.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may sit.

MS MOLOISANE: Mr Mhlongo, during 1991 where were you?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I was in exile.

MS MOLOISANE: When did you come back into the country?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: 1992 in February.

MS MOLOISANE: Now, when you came back into the country, is it not so that there was violence in the Vaal townships, is that no so?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: That is true, there was violence.

MS MOLOISANE: Now tell this Committee what did you do or in what kind of activities were you involved in immediately after your return.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I became a member of the ANC youth league.  I served in the committee as the secretary, and I was the unit commander for the underground structure.

MS MOLOISANE: How old were you by then?  1992.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I was nineteen years old.

MS MOLOISANE: Yes, proceed.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: When I arrived in the country there was a lot of violence.  I had to get information from the comrades as to who belonged where, and I got information that Hapile Ndumo, Meme and a group of them were now under the IFP.  As the member of the unit, and as the commander, I managed to investigate this thing thoroughly.  Now there was this unit that was under my command, and during the patrols a certain vehicle approached.  It was white in colour.  There were two boys inside and three girls.  Hapile was among them.

MS MOLOISANE: Now when was this?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It was in 1992 after June.

MS MOLOISANE: Now you say you had this information.  From who did you get the information, about Hapile Ndumo and Meme and other girls?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: The ANC leadership.  The leadership of the youth league.

MS MOLOISANE: Now after ...(intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Can you be specific?  Who in the leadership of the youth league gave him that information?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I did not understand the question.

CHAIRPERSON: Who in the leadership of the ANC youth league gave the information about Hapile and her group?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It was the chairperson, Stanley.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, the interpreters request the witness to speak a little bit louder.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlongo, what you say must be heard by the interpreters, and we are going to request you to speak louder.  Do you understand?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: They have to hear what you say because we are writing down what you say, we write it in English.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: My apologies Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And don't be fast when you speak.  You're still okay now.

MS MOLOISANE: Proceed Mr Mhlongo.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: While I was in the patrol my unit was controlling the area called LTA.

MS MOLOISANE: Where is that area?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: That is Zone 12 Extension.

MS MOLOISANE: Proceed.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I was at the main entrance.

MS MOLOISANE: With whom were you?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I was by myself.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say your unit was patrolling, do you mean you alone were patrolling?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: The unit was patrolling inside the township and I was at the entrance.  A white vehicle approached with two boys inside.

MS MOLOISANE: Proceed.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: And there were girls at the back, more than three.  Hapile was one of them.  I took out a hand grenade, and I threw it inside.  They took it out through the window.  It did not explode.

MS MOLOISANE: Now why did you throw a hand grenade into the car in which they were travelling?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It was a car belonging to the Mdwembes and at that time a Mdwembe was to be killed when seen.

MS MOLOISANE: Who was the owner of that car?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Hanta Ndlovu was the driver of the car.  I do not know who the owner was.

MS MOLOISANE: Who is this Hanta Ndlovu?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: He was one of the Inkatha's SPU's.

MS MOLOISANE: Proceed.

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: And they sped off, leaving the township.

MS MOLOISANE: Now, what was wrong in, with this Hanta Ndlovu being a member of the SPU?  Inkatha SPU?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: There is something wrong there.  It's because he came to the township to kill.

MS MOLOISANE: How did you know that he had come to the township to kill?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Their operations as to come into the township and kill, and kidnap the girls.

MS MOLOISANE: Were you saying that from prior experience, or was that what you were suspecting them of coming to do?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It is something that they had done earlier, in other townships.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you implying that they had not done that in your township.  When you say that it was something they had done in other townships?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: They had not done it in my township before.

CHAIRPERSON: What period are we talking about here?  When  did you see this Hanta Ndlovu at the entrance of LTA?  Which year?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It was in 1992.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you remember the month?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I do not.

CHAIRPERSON: Now can you recall whether it was immediately after you had set up your unit?  You came back in 1992.  How long after you had returned did you become a commander?  You've been able to tell us that you came back in February 1992, when then did you become a commander of your unit?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I became the commander of the unit after the units were thoroughly established.

CHAIRPERSON: We want to know an estimation of when you became a commander.  How long did it take for the units to be thoroughly established, as you say?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I do not remember how long.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, to your knowledge, did this incident when you see Hanta Ndlovu, did it take place towards the end of 1992, did it take place mid-1992, or are you unable to estimate was it summer, was it winter, was it raining, was it cold, did you have to put on a jersey?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: I would not exactly explain because I always had my lumber jacket on.

CHAIRPERSON: Now let me try and assist you.  You know that in June 1992 there was a massacre that is now notoriously known as Boipatong massacre.  Can you remember that ?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: When you spotted the two boys and the three girls in this white car, was it before the massacre, or was it after the massacre?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: It was before the Boipatong massacre.

CHAIRPERSON: It was before the Boipatong massacre?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed.

MS MOLOISANE: Now, you said these, I mean it had never happened in your township, that is such attacks had never been carried in your township.  In which townships had they taken place?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Zone 7, know as Chief Ntuli.

MS MOLOISANE: Are you referring to Zone 7 Sebokeng?

WALTER MUSMUSI MHLONGO: Yes.