Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-02

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I put it to you Mr Shangase, that in fact the applicant has been truthful in his application, in advising this Committee that he belonged to the IFP and that the killings which took place on the 2nd of February 1993, the killings that were done by him and the others that were mentioned in his evidence, with a political motive, and was not necessarily directed upon the victims or the deceased as a personal revenge.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: It had no political motive, as I mentioned before.  If that is so, he should produce his membership cards and there should be proof to ascertain that indeed he was an Organiser and a member of the IFP.
	They were not members of either the ANC or the IFP.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I put it to you as well that the acts which were committed on the 2nd of February 1993, were acts that were committed in furtherance of the aims of the IFP and in retaliation for the acts of, for the unlawful acts that were committed by the ANC upon the people of the IFP.  What is your comment on that?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: That is not true.  I am referring to aged, elderly males here.  How could these people have defended themselves in an attack?
	These were old, old men, they could not have done anything to defend themselves in the attack.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Shangase, I canvassed that point in particular with the applicant as well during the short recess, and the applicant advises me whilst he is not in the position to indicate to the Committee with any reasonable certainty as to what the ages of the deceased were, he can comfortably say that all the persons that were killed and the persons that were injured in the attack, were persons who were able bodied men, who were middle aged.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I have evidence of what I am saying.  I am speaking of something that I know.  As I mentioned before, if you could ask their grandchildren to stand up here, you will realise that they are about the same age as the applicant.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Shangase, are you affiliated to any particular political party?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: No.  I have never been a member of any political party.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: You have never, throughout 1992 or 1993, ever been a member of any political party?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: No.  That is actually the rule in the area, the Chief and the induna are not members of political parties.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Shangase, according to a document that has been handed to me, it will be apparent that an Investigator was appointed by the Commission to investigate this matter, this amnesty application.
	Did he perhaps have cause to speak with you at any time?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Yes.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Did you mention to the Investigator all the matters that you gave evidence about today before this hearing?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Although I did not mention everything that I spoke about today, because he mentioned that he did not have enough time and he was also not comfortable in the area.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Shangase, let met put it to you that you are making every attempt to oppose the applicant's application for amnesty for reasons best known to you.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I do not hate Mr Zulu.  His mother comes from our area, but he has brought this upon himself because of his actions.
	We regard him as a son because of his mother's situation, why would I hate him?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I put it to you that almost all of the evidence that you have given against the applicant in this matter, is false.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I would not comment, but I only spoke on what I know.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAHARAJ

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Maharaj.  Ms Thabete, do you have any re-examination?

MS THABETE: No Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairman, no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?

MR LAX: No questions Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shangase, do you know a Mr Buxusa Mbonambi?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether he belonged to a political party during that period when the attack took place at the Mthetwa's premises?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: He was an induna under the Chief, that was a long time ago and the political situation, there was no political activity at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you say to the evidence of the applicant that he was the leader, the local leader of the IFP in that Bolushe area?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I do not agree with that because between these two areas, I have never seen, I have never witnessed any political activity.  That is a small area, therefore I would know if something like that went on.
	I do not know anything about what he said.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shangase, we know that at that time, 1993, 1992, most of the people, even in rural areas, were very politically aware, they were aware of the political situation in the country, they were aware that political movements such as the ANC and the PAC had been unbanned, they were aware that there was prospects of political change about to take place in the land.
	I think it was generally known.  Were there not people in either the Bolushe area or the Ngonweni area that were politically aware and who may have belonged or supported a certain political party or movement?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: As far as I am aware, I do not know of any person who was affiliated to an organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: We have heard a number of applications for amnesty and we have also actually heard of political conflicts.  I am not saying in the Buloshe or Ngonweni or Madada area, but we have heard of cases where there was political conflict, particularly between supporters of the IFP and supporters of the ANC, in the Ndwedwe district.
	Are you aware of that?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: That is true.  That was at the Macadeni district at the end of the river, Ngonweni river.
	One person from the ANC actually fled to our area and we requested him to leave because we were not involved in politics.  We did chase him out of the area.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Do you have any questions arising out of questions put by myself Mr Maharaj?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Just one Mr Chairman.  You say that there was a person that affiliated himself with the ANC, that came to your area and you mentioned that we had chased him out of the area.
	When you say we, you are referring to yourself and whom else?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I am referring to the fact that we as an area, could not affiliate or identify ourselves with a political organisation, and we could not tolerate being attacked by people from Macadeni just because of this person.
	We told the induna and the Nkosi that this person should be chased out of the area, so that we do not find ourselves in trouble because of political reasons with which we had nothing to do.

MR LAX: Sorry, you still haven't answered the question, who is the we?  Is it you and the community or is it you and a couple of other people?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: The people from the area, that is the people we discussed the matter with and reported to the induna and the Nkosi.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: You cannot identify any of the persons whom you refer to as we, aside from yourself?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: We told the Nkosi and the induna and we also told the community that we should not involve ourselves in political matters, that this person should be chased out of our area.