Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-27

MR LAZARO: The photo's which they've  showed me was very small photo's.  It was not as big as this.  It was very small photo's and it was not photo's that was with the heads alone.  It was photo's with the complete bodies.

ADV POTGIETER: On the typed statement that was read to you now, there was an allegation that the person on DR705/ 86 is the person that wanted to shoot you in the stomach or something like that.

MR LAZARO: No, not these people.  The photo's which they showed me is photo's with complete people laying down.  Some was being laid down on their faces, some on their sides, but not like this, not like this.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.  And then you said that  from the photo's that was shown to you, you could identify two persons as people that you knew in Guguletu.

MR LAZARO: That is correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Would you turn back to number 40 and then just page through and see if you can identify  those two people, perhaps on any of those photographs?

MR LAZARO: No, no it was not these photo's - not at all these photo's.

ADV POTGIETER: But just  have a look at the people who are shown on there.

MR LAZARO: No, I am afraid, it is not these photo's.

ADV POTGIETER: And you definitely don't see any of those two persons?

MR LAZARO: I don't see nothing of those - these people here, it was not these photo's.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you - thanks.

MR LAZARRO: Those people that was there, I can still remember - they were very light in complexion.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much Mr Lazaro.  I have got no further questions.  Perhaps they can return the photo album.

CHAIRPERSON: None of you wanted to question him.

MARY BURTON: Yes I would like to ask him.

CHAIRPERSON: Mary Burton?

MARY BURTON: Mr Lazaro, I am the one that is asking you questions.

MR LAZARO: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: You must have been quite surprised when the investigators from the Commission came to you after all these years to ask questions about all this?

MR LAZARO: I was very surprised.

MARY BURTON: And how do you feel about it now?

MR LAZARO: To tell you the honest truth lady, I can't actually explain how do I feel.  I feel astonished because I never knew I was used like this.  I could have lost my life through it also.  I  never knew I was used like this, without my knowledge, I never knew I was used like this.  I feel really, really - it is like something, something that - which I  - I just came out of an accident - a big accident, because to see how badly my life was jeopardized to the sake of this.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much.

MR LAZARO: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: We are very grateful to you for your testimony in spite of the shock that it has caused you, thank you.

MR LAZARO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We just want to say thank you very much.  Thank you for having been willing to come forward and one gets very deeply distressed.  I mean, to find that it seems as  if something you had faith,  because you see, in those old days they would say - well this thing has gone to court and the Court has found and then most people.
Certainly most white people would say - justice has prevailed and now we realize, I mean, that often - and often this justice was subverted in this kind of way.  And it very distressing, because it meant that with the heart of our community,  of our society -  the heart of it was a lie.
  Thank you, thank you very much.

MR LAZARO: Thank you