Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  According to the execution party, would be the people who enter the two entrances - if you have a picture of the golf club, under the command of comrade Bheki who was positioned in the security party and who was expected to give a signal for withdrawal at an appropriate time.
	As soon as we get off the vehicle, went through the entrance of the golf club and as per the plan, comrade Lester went to the right, to the bar if I remember very well, I haven't been to the place since then, then myself to the party hall.
	The plan was as follows and we adhered to it, that to first to catch the inning with the element of surprise, create confusion, we must first throw the grenades and I think I must have thrown the reinforce offensive grenade.  I'm saying reinforced because it is the way that, apart from its original form from the factories, we glued in quite many nails to reinforce the shrapnel effect so that it can cause much more damage.  
	So it means that an offensive grenade, we could make if a defensive grenade in terms of the shrapnel effect and a defensive grenade, we could make it something more.  So I threw that grenade, waited for it to explode.  I made sure that I threw it in-between the -okay right in the passage, in the middle of the passage, so that it can injure or kill as many people as it possibly could.
	After that I fired some shots.  Now the reason I fired shots was, it was appreciated that if there is such a senior National Party member, Mr Radoo or Radu or whatever you call it, then it means there will be his VIP team, there will be senior police officers, senior army officers and national intelligence, the CIS and in fact right on that note, the information that we received from the man that I do not know, I cannot recall his name but he is the person I referred to earlier on as the person who was either the secretary or the person maintaining the club, but I understand he had an office there, he said, he described to us the way - it was historic, I mean that occasion, senior citizens would be there and he said in his own words: "Learned people" because he knew we were hungry for education,: "Learned people, senior army officers, senior police officers".
	So we expected that some member of the security forces would be conscious enough, in light of the confusion that is made by the grenade, to respond or to fire back.   So I shot some, a few shots so that I can actually pin down that particular person.  I think comrade Lester did the very same thing on the other side and then the withdrawal signal as planned, then we withdraw. 
	Now the manner in which we were going to withdraw was as follows:  The car, whilst the grenade is going off and some shots are being fired, was idling, moving very slow, prepared for moving at any time and as soon as we withdrew, the car moved very, very, slowly, idling.  The other comrades got into the car and then I was to be the first person, I mean the last person to get into the car so that I can cover the back because now we are facing the other side and the target was this side so we had to make sure that nobody comes out and gives us some problems whilst we are going away.
	As soon as the car exceeded the, or passed the gate I got into the car and took over command as per the plan.  I don't know whether I've made myself very clear.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, can I proceed if the Committee has no questions?

UNKNOWN: Can I just ask, you talk of the gate, and I know we will be given photographs later of the scene, was there a barrier at the gate or where they gates that opened and shut?  Could you just describe that?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No, I don't think there was any gate to open and shut, if my memory serves me well.

UNKNOWN: So you simply just drove past?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

UNKNOWN: There was nobody who stood there, stood watch or anything like that?  There wasn't a post, nothing?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  Sorry, before you continue Mr Mbandazyo, the other point was, the presence of Mr Radu and the security people, the senior people of East London, do you know if in fact they were there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Perhaps I've used a ...[indistinct] I say it was appreciated that they are there.

UNKNOWN: The question is, do you know if in fact they were there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I don't.

ADV SANDI: Were you expecting them to be there, according to what this gentleman you've mentioned said to you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.  And in fact, away from that gentleman being the source, there were many other sources.  I mean today we used to serve this particular boss, today this boss, today this boss, we were collecting information and when we do a debriefing at the end of the day we compare the information received from that Mr and that Mr and then it made one thing.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Let's got to paragraph 23
"On Tuesday I ordered comrade Lugesa Ntintili to assist us to dispose the car and it was for the first time that he had some knowledge about the operation.  I ordered him to drive the Jetta and I drove his maroon rover.  We disposed the car on the road between Fort Beaufort and Grahamstown.  Comrade Ntintili was in the Jetta and myself and Vido were in the Rover"
	Now can you explain to the Committee how - you told the Committee that comrade Ntintili provided you with accommodation, how was it possible that he did not know that you were going to attack the golf club, in view of the fact that in paragraph 22 you already said that you have given to him weapons?  Can you explain that to the Committee?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  As I have indicated earlier, there was no way that somebody who has nothing to do with the operation could know about it before the operation, even after the operation, there was no way that they could go to him and say: "We have done this, and that", for obvious security reasons.
	So he only got an indication when the situation demanded so because we had to dispose the car.  I mean that is what the situation operational demanded otherwise you get caught by the enemy forces.  So comrade Ntintili knew absolutely nothing about the operation until I ordered him to accompany us so that we can dispose of the car.
	And I think, if I remember very well, he asked: "What for"?, because a Jetta that could take us from point A to point B within a short space of time and he knew that we had problems with regard to transport.  So I told him that: "This car is a most wanted car in the Eastern Cape", at the time.  To him, as I could look to him, I mean ...[indistinct] did not have given him enough signal that it was the car used there.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, can you explain to the Committee, you wanted to dispose the car, the reason why you wanted to dispose the car, as you indicated earlier on that you promised the owner that you will bring back the car?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Can you come again?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Can you tell the Committee the reason why you wanted to dispose the car, yet you promised the owner that you will bring back the car?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  In other words you want me to explain the operational circumstances that I'm talking about?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.