Amnesty Hearings — Phokeng — 1996-05-20

MR CHARLES MOKGATLE: I am happy to have been afforded this opportunity and I am happy to have this opportunity to come
up here in front of the Committee and the Baphokeng tribe and the chief.  I am also happy again about the people who killed my father and having revealed the truth.  I should like to believe that they did this under the pressures of the past era and I would also like to request the Baphokeng tribe that in the passage of time when we were still under the rule of Mr Lucas Mangope, things were terrible at that time and there were threats from the other parties.  There were people who were killed outsiders or sell-outs and others were given other names and so on. We had a very difficult life.  We really had a very difficult life for a long time, because we, the Baphokeng tribe, people were giving us names because my father was working under Mangope's regime.  At that time the Baphokeng had the impression that we also were in that party which was disliked at that time or was unpopular, which was against the people of Phokeng.
	There were also threats when I was travelling around here in Phokeng, I was always under the impression that people were going or people were saying that I should have gone away with my father, I should have died with him, I should have followed him.  Therefore, I had a very difficult life since then, and I am now happy when this Committee is here so that I can have an opportunity to speak to the Baphokeng tribe and inform them that please, my people, I don't belong to any party.  I have never belonged to any party. I am only a child who belong or a person who was born in the Baphokeng tribe and I obey the rules of the Baphokeng chief.  It wasn't a good time in our family by then.  We 
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123	MR CHARLES MOKGATLE
never had a good night's rest.  
	There were also threats that me and my father had taken
the people's money, with which he built me a house.  Therefore, the Baphokeng tribe, I want to tell you that is not the truth, that didn't happen.  And the person who told you that I was a sell-out, told you lies.  I am really very standing in what I say in front of this Committee, that if someone disputes what I am saying, he can tell the Committee now to investigate me and whatever errors they find in their investigation, they can always return to the Baphokeng tribe and tell them that I wasn't telling the truth; he was belonging to such-and-such a party, he was built a house with the moneys of the party.   
	Then I would also like to plea with you that, please forget about the past, let's start living together, let me belong to your community again, let me not be an outcast in my own people.  I have my younger brother by the name of Norman.  I also ask the same for him, because we lead one and the same life, me and him.  
	Therefore I want to tell the Baphokeng people that the impressions you had of me were never true.  I want to thank you.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Is that all?

MR CHARLES MOKGATLE: In fact, that's all I wanted to say, because there is nothing more I can prolong.  My brother has already summarised everything.  Everything that my brother had said is what we agreed upon.  Therefore, I just wanted to tell the Baphokeng people that, please don't make us outcasts because of rumours.  Please come and ask us ourselves where was our standpoint. We still belong to you, let's live together in harmony.
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124

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is the witness' evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MPSHE

HASSAN MALL: Mr Currin, any questions you wish to put to this witness?

MR CURRIN: We have no questions to this witness.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR CURRIN

HASSAN MALL: Very well, we thank you very much for the evidence you have given.
WITNESS EXCUSED
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125	S A PHETOANE

MABITSO ANGELBY PHETOANE: (Duly sworn, states).

HASSAN MALL: What is your position in the tribe, Mr Phetoane?

MABITSO ANGELBY PHETOANE: Presently, I am a deputy chairman of the council.

HASSAN MALL: Yes, have you been authorised by the council to be here?

MABITSO ANGELBY PHETOANE: No, I spoke to the council chairman during the break, who is the honourable chief and he had no problem about my appearance here.

HASSAN MALL: Very well, what do you wish to tell this Committee?

MABITSO ANGELBY PHETOANE: I should think the Honourable Sir means that I can go on and speak.

HASSAN MALL: (Indistinct) for purposes of this Committee.