Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  
 "I the undersigned, Donald John Card, do hereby state 
I am retired, 68 years of age and reside at 5 Avon 
Road, Woodleigh, East London.  On the 22nd of May 
1997 I was handed a document from the Truth and 
Reconciliation Commission in terms of Act number 34 
of 1995 wherein it is stated that a certain Mr Vuyani 
Mngaza was going to testify before the Commission 
between the ninth and 12 of June 1997 and was going 
to implicate me.  I do remember Mr Mngaza as the 
only garage owner in Duncan Village during the 
1960's.
 In 1965 when a man, who was the messenger for the 
PAC high command in exile (Lesotho) and the 
remaining pockets of PAC members in South Africa 
was arrested, it became clear that Mr Mngaza played a 
leading role in the activities of the PAC in East 
London and, in fact, he was responsible for sending a 
woman to Lesotho to assist the PAC.  This woman 
and Mr Mngaza were involved in the intended attack 
and killing of Whites throughout South Africa.
 I am not sure whether I or others under me actually 
arrested Mr Mngaza, but he was taken into custody 
and later charged.  At no time was Mr Mngaza 
assaulted by me or anyone else in my presence while 
he was in custody, but on what occasion I did hear that 
Mr Mngaza had acted strangely and was taken to the 
doctor for mental observation.  
 Mr Mngaza was later charged and appeared before the 
Supreme Court in Grahamstown before Judge 
Kannemeyer.  Due to the fact that the court felt that 
there was insufficient evidence to corroborate the main 
State witness, Mr Mngaza was acquitted.  At the trial 
Mr Mngaza swore under oath that he was not a 
member of the PAC and I know notice in Annexure 
EC68/96 that he was a founder member of the Border 
region of the PAC.  That, of course, says very little for 
his integrity, but I suppose he will say that he told lies 
to stay out of prison.  So, is he lying now for the sake 
of money.  
 With regard to the allegations on Annexure 68/96, I 
will deal with them as follows.  Number one, I did not 
know that there was a Border branch of the PAC in 
1950.  I believed that it was established after 1957.  
Number two, I had no dealings with the arrest of Mr 
Mngaza in 1963.  In fact, I did not know that he had 
been arrested.  Number three, I have no knowledge of 
Mr Mngaza's detention and release on the 11th of 
October 1963.  Four, in 1963 I was not a member of 
the Security Police nor did I have dealings with Mr 
Mngaza then.  Five, ...".  
I am on point number five of Mr Donald John Card's statement about Mr Vuyani 
Mngaza.  
 "In 1963 I did work with Detective- Sergeant 
Scheepers, Detective-Constable Chikila, Constable 
Babba Gooysen and Detective-Constable Hans 
Mynhardt, but we had nothing to do with Mr Mngaza. 
 Sixth, I do remember that Mr Mngaza was sent for 
mental observation, but I cannot remember for how 
long.  I do remember that he was declared fit for trial 
so do not know whether he was pretending or not.  
Seven, I have no knowledge of a civil claim.  Eight, the 
Attorney-General has nothing to do with civil claims 
and neither did the Security Police.  These claims are 
dealt with between the claimants advocate, the 
registrar and the court.  So I find Mr Mngaza's 
statement very difficult to understand.  Nine, I have no 
knowledge of an application for a passport by Mr 
Mngaza.  Ten, to the best of my knowledge, Mr 
Mngaza had left this country by 1967 and I do not 
know about these charges.  11, If my memory serves 
me correctly, our money system in 1967 was in rands 
and not in pounds.  I also do not know of a further 
charge of sabotage in 1967 against Mr Mngaza.  12, 
Mr Mngaza was arrested in 1964 or 65 on a minor 
charge and was released on R500,00 bail, but when he 
was re-arrested on a more serious charge, bail was 
opposed and he was kept in custody in East London 
and transferred to Grahamstown for trial before the 
Supreme Court.  13, The trial before Judge 
Kannemeyer was in 1965 and not in 1967.  14, I do 
not know the cost of legal fees, but do know that 
individuals seldom pay for legal fees when a political 
organisation is involved.  It is again strange that rands 
and not pounds are now quoted.  15, The sale of Pan 
African Motors took place sometime after Mr Mngaza 
was acquitted and it must have cost a considerable 
amount of money to go to Dakar with his whole 
family.  16, I did see letters written by Mr Mngaza 
from Senegal.  17, I know that the whole family left 
with him.  18, I did not know that Mr Mngaza had 
returned to South Africa.  
 I would like to point out that the information supplied 
on the Annexure appears to be that of a confused 
person and honestly does not make sense to me and 
therefore it is very difficult to answer except to say that 
Mr Mngaza was not assaulted by me or anyone else in 
my presence nor was he badly treated.  He did have to 
wait some time for his trial, but that was a matter for 
the courts and not the police.  
 Furthermore, I gain the impression that what Mngaza 
is seeking is the R2 650,00 which he says he paid for 
legal costs.  This appears to be a small amount of 
money for an attorney and an advocate's attendance at 
a Supreme Court hearing in Grahamstown.  Mr 
Mngaza's stated under oath that he was not a PAC 
member, but it is now obvious that he is once again 
lying in order to substantiate his claims for costs.  
Signed Donald John Card.".
Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Again, it is very sad that Mr Card is not here personally so that we 
can ask him questions according to his statement.  It is also sad that he is, he made a 
judgement about the confusion of Mr Mngaza.  In our eyes we see him as a perfectly 
normal person, not a confused person, but we will try and get in touch with Mr Card.  
Maybe in Section 29 hearing so that we can get clarity in what is written in his 
statement.  He imputed bad motives to Mr Mngaza.  
 We think that we have to close.  The report we got concerning electricity is 
that this effected the whole Highway area.  It will, this will continue and they hope that 
if the weather is clear tomorrow our proceedings are going to be normal.  If it is not 
they are going to request a generator to help us.  Tomorrow we have a women hearing 
looking at issues which involved women in detention.  We have 14 people, were 
supposed to give their evidence today.  We thought that tomorrow the women hearing 
will proceed as planned from half past nine.  If we manage to finish in time we will 
continue with this hearing tomorrow, but if we have to go through to Friday we will 
do that and have our hearing up until 12 on Friday.  All the people who are, who were 
supposed to testify today, we will meet with them tomorrow, but if we did not finish 
we will meet them on Friday.  We have to listen to everybody, because this is our last 
hearing.  We would like people to be patient with us.  If we knew that there is this 
situation here in Mdantsane we would have brought our own electricity from Cape 
Town.  It is said that you do not pay electricity here in Mdantsane.  Thank you and we 
will come tomorrow at half past nine.  
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VUYANI MNGAZA: MDANTSANE HEARING TRC/