Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

J H VLOK: Mr Chairperson, the AWB was founded as a political organisation in order to provide for the needs of the Boerevolk.  We would receive training - to prepare themselves because you also knew that the ANC at that stage were busy with active terror, they attacked farmers, certain acts of terrors occurred throughout the country and that is why the AWB was founded or established in order to resist this and protect ourselves in the then government of the day.

ADV BOSMAN: What I do not understand Sir,is that in  1975 the National Party was in power and the ANC was declared enemy of the government of the day.  The government was controlling the Defence Force - then where did the AWB fit in, what exactly did they - regarding or in terms of their government, what did they resist?

J H VLOK: Could you please repeat?

ADV BOSMAN: In 1975, when the AWB was established or founded, the National Party was the government of the day - they were in control of the Defence Force with the ANC as a declared enemy - then why was it they would have been needed if it was against the ANC, I do not understand it.  Did you have a problem with the government of the day at that stage?

J H VLOK: At that period of time I was not a member of the AWB so I cannot comment on that.

CHAIRPERSON: No, but when you became a member, you say when you were approximately 18 years old, the policy was not really different from what it was in the 1970's.  What changed when you became a member?

J H VLOK: Mr Chairperson, when I became a member of the AWB, there were various acts of terror across the country and attacks were launched at us as Afrikaners and the government of the day and I reconciled myself with the principles of the AWB and I wanted to be trained at that stage because at that stage I hadn't received any training and that is why I joined the AWB in order to, at the end of the day, also receive training and also reconcile myself with my people who feel the way I feel.  The National Party at that stage was pro-ANC because the ANC at the beginning of 1990 were disbanded and made legal and at that stage there was already talk about the provision of voting rights and that would result in the fact that we would lose our country and that is why I reconciled myself with the AWB and they were opposed to this, that the ANC will come to power because then we knew that we would lose our land and it was during those times there was already affirmative action and various people lost their jobs - I could not find a job because of affirmative action before the elections.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, I don't understand it.  In 1990 and 1991 negotiations started.  The current President was still in jail.  How did you think the land will be taken away at that stage when the negotiations were not even completed.

J H VLOK: Could you please repeat the last part of the question?

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you think that the land will be taken away, that all these other things would happen if the negotiations were still continuing in that time when you became a member of the AWB?

J H VLOK: Mr Chairperson, the ANC was at one time an illegal organisation that committed acts of terror and attacked farmers who were innocent and now the government of the day sits down with them and negotiates with our enemy and that is why I could not reconcile myself with this.

CHAIRPERSON: And how did you think when the bombs were planted, what did you think that that was right, because that is precisely what happened and that is why we've got a hearing.

J H VLOK: Mr Chairperson, we received instructions to stop the elections, to prevent people to go to the polling booths to take part in the elections, we wanted the election to stop in order to enforce the then government to provide us with a Volkstaat.

CHAIRPERSON: That is why I do not understand it, one of the reasons that you've just given as a reason why you became a member of the AWB was that according to your evidence, it was the enemy, namely the ANC, who terrorised the country by planting bombs and to kill people etc., innocent people, you said.  Now I understand that as you've just testified but when the AWB decided to plant bombs to stop the elections, is it exactly what was decided that you were opposed to in 1990.  What was your position when it was decided to plant bombs and unfortunately, innocent people will also be killed and terrorise the country and create fear amongst the people in order not to go to the election polls.  Was that not the same thing?  What was your attitude?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, I absolutely believed, I thought that we also have the right to our own land and to be governed by our own people and to plant bombs and to kill innocent people.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words, in 1991 or 1990, when you became a member, was wrong for a certain party to do such a thing because in 1994 the AWB followed the same tactics.  How did you feel about it at that time?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, at that time I wanted to be trained myself by my own people in order to act as an instructor later amongst my own people and to get my people ready to offer resistance against attacks which were launched.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Thank you Chairperson.
	Let's go back.  You looked up to Constand Viljoen, those were your words, correct?

J H VLOK: Yes, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you believed in what Viljoen told you.

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Do you agree that what was put yesterday to Mr De Wet, that about the 12th March 1994, Constand Viljoen reconciled himself with the election and he took part in it?

J H VLOK: I do not know, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: You do not know that Viljoen took part in the elections?

J H VLOK: Yes, that he took part in the elections I know, but I didn't know that he already registered at that time.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Do you agree with me that he took part in the election, his party was registered, it was one of the parties you could have voted for in the elections, he had posters put up.  I believe it was the sign of the Freedom Front.

J H VLOK: Please repeat the question?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Were you aware that Constand Viljoen took part in the election?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So he did not involve himself in the struggle, he formed part of the elections?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson, but whether he had a double agenda, I do not know, I was not involved with the planning.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But here's a man who you held in high regard, he was a leader you believed in.  Why did you not follow him?

J H VLOK: Mr Chairperson, I was a supporter of the AWB and I reconciled myself with the objectives of the AWB and therefore I went, which I believed was the right way and that the elections had to be stopped and that we had to enforce a Volkstaat.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Here's a leader that you held in high regards, why did you not join him in the elections?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, because I could not reconcile myself with taking part in the elections.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Paragraphs 12 - 16 you mention a meeting which was held and at which there were several speeches made.  If I understand your evidence correctly, one again you were only a guards, you did not really take part in the meeting.

J H VLOK: That's correct, Chairperson, I was a guard.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So you did not take part in the meetings and everything that's written here from paragraphs 12 - 16, is everything hearsay evidence, you were not there yourself?

J H VLOK: I was there.  I know about all these proceedings and the speeches which were made, we were in the vicinity of the speeches being made.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And also the closed or secret one - after the closed one was finished?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.