Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-19

MS MADONDO: I oppose it because on the day that he was arrested by the Protea police officers, he was on his way to Kliptown because he used to help my mother who was selling coal, so he was from home at Dube to Kliptown.  On his way between Potchefstroom and Roodepoort Roads the police knocked him there.  There was a person who was travelling in a bus next to his car who saw all of this and this person called me and informed me that he had seen two police vehicles, one parked in front of his car and one behind his car.

MS VAN DER WALT: ...(not translated) (Transcriber's translation - Did the witness witness this herself?  It seems to me that it is hearsay evidence.)

CHAIRPERSON: She said she'd been told that and it's hearsay, but hearsay evidence could be admitted, it would only be about the value attached to it.

MS MADONDO: This person was in the bus and he saw when they pulled him out of the car because she informed me that one of the policemen went to the car, pulled him out of his car and then they drove off and she thought that they might have gone to the Moroka or Protea police stations.  That is what she had told me on that morning.  From there I went to the Protea police station.  On arrival there I saw his car, a Chevrolet, I cannot remember the registration number but it started with BZK.  I saw that car parked outside the police station.  	I went inside and requested to see Security Policemen, because those are the people who normally came to my home.  They would come to look for him from there.  They asked me who had informed me of his arrest and I told them that I had received an anonymous call and I could see his car parked outside and they informed me that they found the car abandoned in Potchefstroom Road.   Because there were houses around there, they told me that he had run out of the car and run towards Kliptown and that they had not been able to arrest him.   They informed me that they had then impounded the car because it appeared that it was stolen.  That is what they told me, meanwhile they knew that he was in their possession.

MS SAMUEL: Now Ma'am, you've heard the evidence of all the applicants so far, do you believe they are telling the truth about what happened to your brother on that day?

MS MADONDO: I am just grateful that they came before this Committee to inform them of what happened to my brother because I was in the dark all along.  That is what I appreciate, so that I have knowledge of what happened to him.

MS SAMUEL: But despite them denying that the body that was disposed of was that of your brother, do you still believe that despite those denials, the body that was disposed of, after hearing this evidence, are you convinced that the body that was disposed of, is in fact the body of your brother?

MS MADONDO: Yes, I do believe that because he wouldn't have disappeared for so long.  I think that most of them have admitted that they did not know him and even the last applicant mentioned that he did not look at him.  The people who knew him were van Vuuren and Visser and van Rooyen.

MS SAMUEL: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS SAMUEL

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Ms Madondo, just to place on record that my client, Mr Gold, does not deny that that body, that the person that was injured, was in fact your husband, he simply doesn't know whether or not it wasn't.

MR MADONDO: Not my husband, my brother.

MR WILLS: I'm sorry, your brother.  Just referring to your affidavit on page 101, this - you refer in the first paragraph there to a Mr van Rooyen.  It seems from the way you've been giving evidence that you know this person, he's come to your house before, is that right?

MS MADONDO: Before his disappearance even my son was expelled from school because of that van Rooyen.  He went and informed the school that he came from a family of terrorists, so that after his standard 9 examinations, he was told not to return to school so van Rooyen came to my home and he inquired about us, just where we came from, before we resided at Dube.  Therefore I know him very well.  He used to come to my home and they would come to my home to harass us.  They would inform us that as we would deny knowledge of his whereabouts, they would also do the same when we look for him.

MR WILLS: Do you know by chance the Christian name of this Mr van Rooyen, the first name and specifically do you know if it was Mr Martin van Rooyen?

MS MADONDO: Yes, I have a notebook that I left at home where his details are contained.

CHAIRPERSON: I think in all probability, he was at that station, I think its common cause, I don't know whether there  were other van Rooyens.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

MR BOOYENS: No questions thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOOYENS

MS VAN DER WALT: Ms Madondo, you made, you said in your affidavit on 7 May 1996, it appears on page 87 Mr Chairman, remember you said there you told the Human Rights Violation of that, do you remember that?  I don't know whether your lawyer can show it to you?  Page 87. Did you sign it?  Look at the bottom of the page.

MS MADONDO: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Then also on page 104 of the bundle, there's another affidavit and I would just like to ask you whether that is correct.  Is that your signature towards the end of that?  And you have made that on the 18th of May 1998, is that correct?

MS MADONDO: 1998.  Okay.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was that after that was asked about by the Amnesty Committee, that you have done that and you've made that affidavit?

MS MADONDO: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: You also said there in your evidence and during cross-examination, that your son was kicked out of the house, or out of the school rather because they told that he was coming from a family of terrorists, is that correct?  Do you hear the translation?  I'm not referring to the documentation, it is what you have said.  Did you, a moment ago when that gentleman opposite you asked you, did you then say that he was kicked out of the school because of van Rooyen, who went to the school saying that he comes from a family of terrorists, I would like to know whether that is correct?

MR LAX: She's trying to hear the interpretation.

MS MADONDO: Yes, it is true.

MR LAX: What happens is, the more you talk, the more they interpret for her and then she's got to wait till they've finished to answer.  So just give her a chance to answer.

CHAIRPERSON: Could we have your answer then?  Could you kindly listen?  You've told us a few minutes ago that your son was expelled from the school because van Rooyen informed the school that your son associated with a family of terrorists?

MS MADONDO: Yes, that's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: When did you become aware of the fact that your brother was involved with the ANC?

MS MADONDO: When he was working in my mother's coal yard, they will come together with Sipho Twala and Kholisi Twala and they will hide themselves in my mother's coal yard because they were no longer staying at Dube because police were looking for them and sometimes they were staying in Swaziland and whenever they infiltrated the country they would stay there in my mother's coal yard.

MS VAN DER WALT: In what year did you become aware of that?

MS MADONDO: In 1976, somewhere in 1976 he disappeared, in 1979 later.

MS VAN DER WALT: Prior to 1979, did you know that he was involved with the ANC?

MS MADONDO: I will repeat again.  I say as from 1976 he was active and the Twala family, they had already left Dube Section in Soweto for Swaziland, therefore they will go to the Twala family and hide in Swaziland and come back with the Twala brothers.

MS VAN DER WALT: I would like to refer you to your affidavit, page 104, the last paragraph of that.  It says
"During the time of his disappearance in 1979, I did not know that my brother was a member of the ANC or MK."
Do you see that?