Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-25

THOMAS MANTHATA: All right. Let's proceed and find out how, in which way were people torturing you?  What did they do to you?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: They arrested me and took me to the police station and they beat me on the face and then my face was swollen and then I was electrocuted.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Where did they electrocute you on the body?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: It was for a long time, they put me in a sack and they electrocuted me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: After that?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: After that they took me - after that they took me to Bougroep.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What is Bougroep?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: It is a prison in Potchefstroom.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Were you sentenced when you were sent to prison?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I was there for six months.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I was saying you were there for six months because you were sentenced?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, I was sentenced.
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THOMAS MANTHATA: Did you appear in court?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, I did appear in court.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who represented you?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I was represented by the lawyer, I have forgotten his name. I had a lawyer.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You don't remember that lawyer?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: No, I don't remember that lawyer.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Is there no paper which may remind you, make you remember the name of that person?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I will ask when I arrive at home.

THOMAS MANTHATA: After that six months what happened?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Then I was released and then they brought me home.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You were there when people were burning the hall?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: No, I was looking when the hall was burning.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Were you the only one who was arrested by the police at that time at that place?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, I was the only, I was the first to be arrested at that time and they took me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you are saying you are the first one, were others arrested thereafter?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I am not sure, I don't know whether others were arrested.

THOMAS MANTHATA: After you were beaten and before you went to court, did you see a doctor or were you taken to a hospital?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: No, I didn't see the doctor, I was not examined by the doctor.

THOMAS MANTHATA: After, as you have come here to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, what have you lost, which do you think, through the help of this Commission, we may try and
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investigate to try to get that back?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: My body has been affected because of electrocution and I am unable to work and I am getting a subsistence allowance from the Government.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you say you are unemployed, which part of your body do you have a problem with?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: The body becomes painful.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Mr Manthata.  Prof Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Mr Motsamai, just a few questions.  You are 27 years old. Is that correct?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Are you married?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: No, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Do you have children dependent upon you?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I have no children, sir.

PROF MEIRING: May I just come back to what Mr Manthata also asked about your work. Is it totally impossible for you to do any work?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: It is totally impossible, because I am undergoing treatment every month. Then I get injections and I am giving pills and monthly I get that subsistence allowance.

PROF MEIRING: Where do you get that treatment?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: At the Commissioner, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Is that at a hospital or at a clinic?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: That is a clinic, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: It is a clinic.  And is there a specific doctor that takes care of you, if we want to go and ask for your files?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, Sir, there is a doctor.

PROF MEIRING: What is the doctor's name?
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MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Goskie.

PROF MEIRING: And is that in Potchefstroom?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, Sir, it is Potchefstroom.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  A last question.  When did you leave school, in which standard?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I left school when I was doing Std 3 in 1993.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Prof Meiring.  Daniel, I just want you to relax, you are looking too tense, okay?  Take your time in answering your questions.  We don't want to frighten you, there is nothing to be frightened about.  All right?  Good, that's better.
 Daniel, I want to come back to 1985.  What was happening in Ikhutseng township? I mean you have mentioned in your statement that there was the burning of the Kamathlape hall.  What else was happening in Ikhutseng township at the time?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: People were fighting and people were throwing cars with stones.

DR RANDERA: (Speaker's mike not on).

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: It was the comrades, they were fighting against the high rent.

DR RANDERA: So there was a rent increase, were there also local councillors in Ikhutseng that people were against?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, Sir, there were councillors and people didn't want that.

DR RANDERA: So were there also attacks on houses of councillors and policemen at the time, and police women? I know it is a long time ago, but you can take your time.

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, councillors' houses were attacked.

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: And you were 16 years old at the time. Is that KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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right?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes.  Yes, Sir.

DR RANDERA: 1969?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, that's true, Sir.

DR RANDERA: So the police, when they arrested you,  they took you to the police station in Potchefstroom or in Ikhutseng?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: In Potchefstroom, Sir.

DR RANDERA: You mentioned the name of Pappa Kisibi.

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes.

DR RANDERA: As one of the people whom you recognised?  He was a policeman, was he?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, he was a policeman.

DR RANDERA: Were there any other policemen that you recognised that were involved in your torture?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I only remember Pappa Kisibi, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Now the torture period that you were subjected to, how long did that last for?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I was tortured for a long time.  They were beating me on the face and my face was swollen and I was electrocuted.

DR RANDERA: A long time, are you talking about hours or days?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I am talking about hours, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  Then during that time or even after the torture, did you ask to be see by a doctor?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, I saw a doctor thereafter, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Do you remember the name of the doctor?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: The doctor?

DR RANDERA: Do you remember the name of the doctor?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, I remember the doctor, Sir.
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DR RANDERA: What was his name?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Staftabu.

DR RANDERA: Daniel, you say that you spent six months in jail. Now between the arrest that took place, were you first released and then you had to go through a court case or did they just throw you into prison after that?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I was released, then I was taken to court.

DR RANDERA: How long were you out of prison for, between that first arrest and then the court case?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: I think it is four days, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Was the court case immediately after that?

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: Yes, there was a court case.