Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

WITNESS:   Yes, it was taken by the Phoenix police and taken to Verulam.

COMMISSIONER: Was there never a case, an inquest at the Verulam Magistrate's Court that you know about?  Were you ever called to go to any sort of court case about your son's death?

WITNESS:   There was a day when I came in the afternoon and I was told that a certain policeman had come and said I should go to the police station, but I never went there because I was working.  And he could not come and tell me in the evening that he wanted to see me the following day if that was a case, and there never came back anybody to tell me anything.

COMMISSIONER: Which police station did he tell you to go to?  We would like to ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   They said I should go to Verulam Court.

COMMISSIONER: And where was your son buried, Mr Ngobese?

WITNESS:   He was buried in Ndwedwe, the rural areas.

COMMISSIONER: I'll ask the other members of the panel if they want to ask any questions.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Ngobese, I wish to get a whole picture as to what was happening in Ndwedwe at that particular time.  You have already told us that some of the youths had already run away to stay at Amawoti.  Is there anything you know about clashes that existed?

WITNESS:   Yes, there were certain clashes that took place, and certain youths had been killed in Ndwedwe.

DR MAGWAZA: Who was fighting?

WITNESS:   It was the political organisations that were fighting.

DR MAGWAZA: At the time of those fights were there any youths or students just like your son who were killed that you know of?

WITNESS:   I do not know of any personally, except that some were neighbours' children who had died, but some were not attending school, they were just youths.

DR MAGWAZA: How did you get to know that these were the people who killed your son?

WITNESS:   There's another one that I saw at Verulam who was born at the same place where we were staying, and when I asked him he laughed at me.  And at the time when he laughed at me I wasn't alone, and when we got home we discussed this matter that we had seen one who was staying at Amawoti, and who said he knew my son, and had he seen him he would have told me.  And certain males that I was staying with in Durban went to fetch him from Verulam, and he explained, and he had a certain piece of paper from which he was reading as he was explaining.   Was he explaining to you?   ---   Yes, he was explaining, and these youths were there.  He was telling us as to how my son died.

DR MAGWAZA: Even though the case never took place did you know about the people who killed your son?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... to the previous witness, Mrs Ndlovu.  We've heard so many mothers like yourself and like her telling stories about the death of their children, and, having seen how people like you and other mothers have suffered, it's correct to say that they are -you are as much a victim as the children you have told us about, whether they killed or whether they were assaulted, because you have to live for the memories for years and years afterwards.  The process that you have described to us of going from hospital to hospital, and then from mortuary to mortuary, must be a terrible thing for a parent to do, and it is something that we have heard all over this country from witnesses like yourself.  It seems that you are not sure as to who - as to why your son died.  There's some suggestion in your statement that because he came from an IFP stronghold in Ndwedwe that he may have been killed by people in Amawoti, which was an ANC area, and if this is the case then it's another indication of the terrible political intolerance that we have lived with in this country.

COMMISSIONER: We are very glad that you could have been here today with your daughter, Molly, is Mxolisi's sister, and we hope that you were able to give each other some comfort here today on the stage.  We will - as part of our job we will be making recommendations to the Government and the State President as to how people like you can be assisted, and if there are any specific requests that you want to make to the Truth Commission we will consider them and pass them on to the Government as part of our recommendations.  We thank you very much for coming in and having the courage to tell us your story today.  Thank you very much.  Is there anything more that you want to say?

WITNESS:   My request is - whenever I am sitting and thinking when a person dies there is some compensation that that person gets.  Now I don't know what I can request from the Commission, because when my son died he was not working as yet, and whenever I see other children working for their parents I always feel that if my son was alive he could be working for me.

COMMISSIONER: Yes, we understand that.  Thank you very much for coming in, and to Molly as well.

COMMISSIONER: We greet you.  At last you have had a chance to come to the Truth Commission to tell your story.  We know that you've been waiting for a long time.  You, like other witnesses who have given evidence today, are from Chesterville, and you, like many other witnesses, have come to tell about the death of your child, your son, Thabani.  Before you tell us that story can you stand and take the oath?

THANDI MEMELA: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mrs Memela.  Dr Mgojo will assist you.

KHOZA MGOJO: How are you, Thandi?  I am glad to see you here to ventilate and tell us what you have gone through.  Thandi, I will be very glad if you would give us a picture of your family, that who are you, and how many are you?

WITNESS:   I am the first one, and I have another six brothers and sisters, five brothers and one sister.

KHOZA MGOJO: What I am saying in - with your children.  Not your sisters or brothers, but your children.

WITNESS:   All right.  I am the single parent.  I have three children, and my first one is a son, who is doing his last year in psychology, and I have a boy and a girl.  And Thabani is the one who is late, and one girl who is right here present by the name of Gugu.  And also I have a boy who will turn 16 on the 3rd of November.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you still have children who are attending school?

WITNESS:   Yes.  The younger one is in standard seven.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said the other one is doing what?

WITNESS:   The girl has completed matric, she hasn't got a job, and the elder boy is doing his last year in psychology. Where?   ---   He is studying with Unisa.  Because he was at Natal doing chemical engineering until he dropped out because they were looking for me.  He was harassed.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who was harassing him?

WITNESS:   He was harassed by Andy Taylor, Nyeza, Ntombela, and others.

KHOZA MGOJO: They were harassing him whilst he was attending school?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Until he left school?

WITNESS:   Yes, he had to leave school as a result of this harassment.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you ever report this matter to the police or somewhere, that your child had to leave school?

WITNESS:   Each time they will take me I would ask, "Why wouldn't you deal with me and leave my children and my family alone, and concentrate on me?"

KHOZA MGOJO: What did they say?

WITNESS:   No one doesn't know in this country, because then - that then we are not being listened to.  Instead if you say something that will worsen the situation.

KHOZA MGOJO: I will talk more later.

WITNESS:   That's fine.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you working?

WITNESS:   Yes, I still have a part-time, but I never used to work before.  I just have a part-time now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you paying for the children at school?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: The other one who left after standard 10, is it because of the financial problems?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's because of the financial problems.