Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1998-09-07

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Chairman, our next applicant will be Mr Tebogo Kebotlhale.  May we call him through.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Thank you.

ADV STEENKAMP: Page 5 - 11, Mr Chairman.

MR KOOPEDI: May I say Mr Chairman, for the benefit of our Interpreters, that all the applicants intend using the English language.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: (sworn states)

MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  You are one of the applicants in this matter, is that correct?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: That is so.

MR KOOPEDI: Perhaps before you tell this Honourable Committee about your involvement in the Johannes Nkosi Unit, would you briefly tell them who you are, where you were born, when did you join the ANC?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: My name is Tebogo Kebotlhale.  I was born on the 14th of November 1967 in Hohodi in Vryburg.  I am 30 years of age.  I joined Umkhonto weSizwe underground unit in Hohodi in 1983 and I underwent internal training, internal military training.
	I left for exile in February 1985 and underwent military training in Angola, Cuba and the former USSR.  I was trained in the use of various weapons and underwent specialised training on military engineering and urban suburban guerrilla warfare.
	I had been a Section Commander, the Platoon Commander and Company Commander and Sub-Regional Commissar in the East Rand in my career in Umkhonto weSizwe.
	I was infiltrated in the country in 1987, I operated in Bloemfontein area and later redeployed to the East Rand.  I trained and armed various internal MK recruits in the East Rand and elsewhere.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi, have you got a copy of that statement?

MR KOOPEDI: The biographical details that he has just given to you, we are trying to get a copy done.  We will most probably be able to hand it over in a short while, however, I wish to point out that it will only be the biographical details, there is no statement prepared by him for the process.
	The only statement is the one that I believe has been handed in.  The one done by the previous applicant.  Have you done?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes, I am through.  I agree with all that my Commander has presented before the Commission and everybody.

MR KOOPEDI: For the purposes of your application in the matters before this Committee, would you confirm that other than being a member of the Johannes Nkosi Unit, were you involved in any manner whatsoever in the Wimpy matter and if so, how were you involved?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I was only involved in the Wimpy matter in so far as the planning was concerned.

MR KOOPEDI: Would it be correct to say that at all times when the planning was done and whatever decisions were taken, you were present?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I was present, yes.

MR KOOPEDI: And you also take full responsibility for whatever came out of that decision?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes, I do.

MR KOOPEDI: Now, would you also confirm that in as far as it relates to the attack on the "Kitskonstabels" in Lindelani Section in Katlehong, what was your involvement there?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: My involvement also included the planning part of it, the distribution of ammunition and the support provided to members of my fellow Unit.

MR KOOPEDI: And you would therefore confirm that in fact you are responsible for whatever consequences that came after making the decision during the planning sessions?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: That is all from this witness for now.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: So you are only making application in respect of two incidents, the attack, the blast at the Wimpy in Benoni and the attack in Katlehong on the "Kitskonstabels"?

MR KOOPEDI: May I interrupt you with respect Mr Chairman, that in fact, he like all the other applicants, are making - have made applications for various offences, however, from communicating with my learned friend on the other side, it appears that with other matters, this can be dealt with as Chamber matters, because perhaps people may not have been injured, however there is a list of the offences for which they apply for and this appears on the statement that I believe is before you, the one that was presented by the first applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Koopedi, all I am asking is for what he is making an application today so that when we give the judgement, either we grant or refuse an application in respect of specific incidents.
	That is all I am asking.  Am I correct then that we have to consider an application in respect of the blast at Wimpy Bar at Benoni and the Katlehong attack on the "Kitskonstabels"?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Honourable Judge, if I may refer you to page 10 of our main submission.

MR KOOPEDI: He is actually referring to the submission by the previous applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Exhibit  A?

MR KOOPEDI: Yes, Exhibit A.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: On page 10, there we have enumerated the list of operations that we carried as the Johannes Nkosi Unit and we have also made specific reference, specific mention of who carried what operation.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But what are you applying for amnesty, in respect of which incident are you seeking amnesty?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I am applying for amnesty for the bombing of the whites only bus terminus in Germiston.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, as appearing on page 12 of our application documents.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I am also making application for the bombing of the "Kitskonstabels" barracks in Mnisi Section.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes.  Is that all that you are seeking amnesty for?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: What about the fact that you have just stated that you were involved in the Wimpy matter in so far as its planning was concerned.  Are you not seeking amnesty for that?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: That would include, that would include the two operations that were discussed extensively earlier on.  The Wimpy one and the ambush on the "Kitskonstabels".

SISI KHAMPEPE: We have to be very clear Mr Kebotlhale, in respect of which incident you are seeking amnesty.  You have just stated now when you were being questioned, that you are seeking amnesty in respect of the bombing of the Katlehong Police barracks and also in respect of the bombing of the Germiston whites only terminus?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: If I may mention, I am also making application for the bombing of Wimpy itself and the application for the bombing of the attack on the "Kitskonstabels" in Lindela Section.

CHAIRPERSON: How many is that now?  Four?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: That would also include the bombing of the railway line, the electrical sub-station in Katlehong.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Why were these incidents not included in your application?  In your formal application for amnesty, form 1?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: If you may refer to page 6 of the bundle of documents, we are mentioning there that, I am mentioning there that the Benoni/Duduza/Katlehong actions were involved, and if you look into 9.8(1) I am saying there the acts include issuing out of instructions and carrying out attacks on Wimpy outlet, South African personnel and councillors and whites only bus terminus.  I have eloquently stated that in my application.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Oh, thank you very much Mr Kebotlhale.  I have actually looked at your further particulars which appears on page 12 and 13 and I had overlooked that one.  I think it has not been very clear and that is why it is important for us to make sure that we in a way detail all the incidents, so that we don't loose sight of what you are applying for.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Thank you.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Kebotlhale, maybe if we can again for purposes of the record, enumerate once more the incidents in respect of which you are seeking amnesty.  Can you do that?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes.