Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

ADV GCABASHE: You all shared the same objectives you were all there to fight a war?

J H VLOK: Yes Mr Chairperson but I cannot remember if there were any civilian people in the head office.

ADV GCABASHE: No, we're just talking about people like your AWB members who shared the same objective, who were there for roughly the same reason to wage war in the short or long term secure a Volkstaat.  I'm talking about those people and my question really is, why didn't you share one of your achievements with people who, like you, wanted to know when you were successful?

J H VLOK: Just repeat that question please?

ADV GCABASHE: My question is a very simple one, you had just had a major success, yes?

J H VLOK: Yes, the operation was successful, the bomb did go off.

ADV GCABASHE: Right, you personally were involved in that success?

J H VLOK: In the operation that succeeded, yes.

ADV GCABASHE: That success was aimed at achieving a particular objective that had been set by the AWB?

J H VLOK: That is correct, yes.

ADV GCABASHE: You are in an office with other AWB members, who like you, are fighting for the same objective?

J H VLOK: Yes Mr Chairperson but they were who had to do duties in the office and they were not there to fight.  The rest of the Commandos were already placed out in other bases.

ADV GCABASHE: So you would not share your success with other members of the AWB in those circumstances?

J H VLOK: No Mr Chairperson because I feel that the instruction - that it would be the duty of a senior officer who gave the instructions to then convey it to them.

ADV GCABASHE: Did this secrecy, you know keeping things to yourself, did this extend to other members of the Garde?

J H VLOK: Can you please repeat the question?

ADV GCABASHE: This secrecy, this keeping your success to yourself, did this extend to the other members of your community of the Ystergarde?

J H VLOK: No, I do not know Mr Chairperson.

ADV GCABASHE: No, no, no - in relation to what you would share with your colleagues, people of your rank, of your standing in your military formation - in your military formation, the Ystergarde - you would not talk to them either about this success of yours?

J H VLOK: No, Mr Chairperson, because if it was - if I had to tell them they also would have been involved in this operation.

ADV GCABASHE: Then finally on the same aspect - whose responsibility was it to report to your senior officers on the success of the mission?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, I believe it was Jan de Wet's instruction because he was on his way back to the base where they were stationed.

ADV GCABASHE: No, not what you believe, what you know?
If you don't know then you don't know, not what you believe.

J H VLOK: Please repeat the question?

ADV GCABASHE: Whose responsibility was it to inform your superior officers that you had been successful in Germiston?
You after all had the activator, you pressed those wires together?

J H VLOK: Yes,Mr Chairperson, I put the wires together against the battery's terminals but it was De Wet's task to go and report back to Nicolas Barnard and that was how the instruction was given, that he must go back and give a report to him.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  Thank you Chair.

ADV BOSMAN: At the stage when you left for Koesterfontein, where was General Prinsloo and Brigadier van der Merwe?

J H VLOK: I do not know, Chairperson.

ADV BOSMAN: When did General Prinsloo or rather Brigadier van der Merwe, when did he give you the instruction to accompany people to Koesterfontein?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, that was in Ventersdorp at the Trimpark.

ADV BOSMAN: Was that the previous day?  The Friday already or when was this?

J H VLOK: No, Chairperson, that was when we got together at the Trimpark and when the Ystergarde gathered together when they were called up the first time.

ADV BOSMAN: Because you sat with two instructions when you went to Koesterfontein and one was that of Brigadier van der Merwe, that is accompany people to Koesterfontein, did he say you have to return then, is that how you understood it?

J H VLOK: Please repeat?

ADV BOSMAN: When Brigadier van der Merwe told you to accompany people to Koesterfontein, did you understand that you must go and do something at Koesterfontein or did you understand you must then return to your base?

J H VLOK: At that stage I believed I must return to Ventersdorp.

ADV BOSMAN: And when you went to Koesterfontein, you actually went there to go and help build bombs?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, as I've said before, it was the Sunday the 24th and then Abraham Myburgh and Nicolas Barnard arrived at the Garde House and they gave me the instruction to accompany them to Koesterfontein.

ADV BOSMAN: But to make bombs?  Did they tell you then it's to make bombs at the Garde House?

J H VLOK: Yes, Chairperson.

ADV BOSMAN: Did you not know where Brigadier van der Merwe was at that stage?

J H VLOK: I was under the impression that he was at the game farm and I believed that's where he went the day they left Ventersdorp.

ADV BOSMAN: Wasn't there anyone else that you could talk about with regards to these two instructions because now you have two instructions - one is go to Koesterfontein and then you returned and the other instruction is go to Koesterfontein and build bombs.

J H VLOK: Cliff Barnard told me that Brigadier Leon van der Merwe said that I must go to Koesterfontein.

ADV BOSMAN: And when you returned where was General Prinsloo and Leon van der Merwe then, after the bomb now?

J H VLOK: I do not know Chairperson, I believe they were still at the game farm.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vlok, the making of a bomb, how late in the day did this happen?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, I do not know what time on Sunday the 24th they started making the bomb but I know I was there just after dark and the bomb was at an advanced stage.

CHAIRPERSON: And how late in the day was the sand thrown over the bomb in the trailer?

J H VLOK: The next morning, very early?

CHAIRPERSON: The morning?

J H VLOK: Yes, the next morning, the 25th, very early.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the sun already up?

J H VLOK: Yes, Chairperson, the sun was already up.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this April month, the month of April and then de Wet arrived?

J H VLOK: Yes Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Now did it take you the whole night to make the bomb?

J H VLOK: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was in charge of you guys?

J H VLOK: Cliff Barnard, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And he gave the orders?

J H VLOK: He gave me the order that I must go with Jan de Wet to Germiston but Koekemoer was in charge of the actual making of the bomb, he built the bomb.  He gave the people instructions how to build a bomb and to place the bomb on the trailer.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we understand that, but I'm not talking about in whose charge you were, who was the Commander, let me put it that way of Koesterfontein that evening?

J H VLOK: Nicolas Barnard, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Several occasions, you in your evidence said that you acted in the interests of the AWB - which interests is this?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, the interests of the AWB was at that stage to stop the elections and to enforce a Volkstaat and if they would not give us a Volkstaat, we thought we'll enforce it because at that stage we thought, we were under the impression that the ANC government - the future ANC government would not give us an election once they come to power.

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you brought about this bomb in Germiston or you accomplished the exploding of a bomb, did you try and find out from head office if the Volkstaat was handed over to you, just before you detonated the bomb?

J H VLOK: No Chairperson, I feel then we would have been stopped by our commanding structure as the messages were conveyed down from the top.