Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-01

CHAIRPERSON: No, let's be to the point Mr Ndlangamandla, all that she wants you to explain is why in your written application you stated that the offence was committed because of a family revenge and not a political revenge as you have sort to allege vive voce evidence today?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He died as a chairman of IFP.  I was revenging in the name that my chairman has been killed and also my grandfather.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed Ms Thabete, we don't want to interfere with your cross-examination.

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair.  Once again I would like to put it to you Mr Ndlangamandla that from the evidence that has been brought up this was a family revenge, your grandfather may have been an IFP member but this had nothing to do with politics.  Further ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Just wait for him to make a comment in respect of what you've just put to him.  Do you have any comments to say to what has been put to you by Ms Thabete?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No, as I've already explained that what I've done I've done it in the name of IFP and the evidence is that the bail was paid by the IFP.  They've donated the money and they brought the money forward, the money which they've brought forward is the money that helped me and this is the evidence that what I've done I've done in the name of IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: You may then proceed to put things further Ms Thabete.

MS THABETE: Further Mr Ndlangamandla I want to put it to you and I've got witnesses, I've got two affidavits to that effect that there was no political conflict in your area when your grandfather was killed?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: No I don't know what you're talking about.

MS THABETE: Maybe at this stage I should point out that I've got two affidavits in front of me and I've arranged that the witnesses come whether tomorrow or on Wednesday to verify what's on the affidavit.  So ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Ms Thabete, have you made Mr Claassen privy to the affidavits you are now putting to his client?

MS THABETE: Yes Madame Chair I have.

MR CLAASSEN: I wish to confirm I did indeed receive these affidavits.

CHAIRPERSON: And obviously, I mean you are aware that she intends to call one or two witnesses?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Madame Chairperson, on the basis that she indicated to me that she will be calling these witnesses.  I have no objection to that, the fact that these affidavits may be used at this stage provided that these witnesses will come and corroborate their statements.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Claassen.

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair.
	Mr Ndlangamandla, I want to put it to you that there was no political conflict at the time and the witnesses are going to come and state that as they have in their affidavits.  Do you have any comment on that or what is your response to that?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Who are these witnesses, I wasn't in conflict with anyone.

MS THABETE: Mr Ndlangamandla, these witnesses are ...[indistinct] Shadrick Vilavazi who will come and testify that he was the chairperson or he is the chairperson of the IFP at present and the other one is Mr Mgwele Albert Ndlangamandla.  Sorry, Mr Vilavazi was the chairman of the IFP then when your grandfather died and Mr Albert Ndlangamandla is the chairman of the IFP now.  Do you know Albert Ndlangamandla?

CHAIRPERSON: Is it not the reverse Ms Thabete, isn't it that Mr Albert Ndlangamandla was during 1993 the chairperson of the IFP branch in Lashampondo?

MS THABETE: Madame Chair according to our investigation it's the other way around.

CHAIRPERSON: Then we don't have that information according to the affidavit that's before us signed by Mr Ndlangamandla.  No I think you are correct, your papers are confused.  I think we need to rearrange your papers.  You may proceed to put issues as you understand them but won't you please just make sure that you take your bundle and rearrange them appropriately because I think my pages are a little confused.

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair.  I was still asking you a question, do you know Mr Mgwele Albert Ndlangamandla?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes I know him very well.

MS THABETE: Are you aware that he's the chairman of the IFP at present in your area?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I left in 1994, he wasn't a chairman then.

MS THABETE: Is he a relative by any chance?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes he is.

MS THABETE: How is he related to you?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: We're just relatives because of the names, similar names.

MS THABETE: Were you in good relations then before you were arrested?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Not very well.

MS THABETE: But you got along fine, you got along with each other?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes, I took him as a father because of similar names.

MS THABETE: Can you please explain how your grandfather was killed?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I think I've explained this before and I even tried to read the statement and now you want me to explain again?

MS THABETE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes we will want you to try and answer the question that is put forward and let me just say that I was going to ask you ...[inaudible] not clear, there isn't anywhere you've explained in your statement that as to how he was killed.

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: He was shot.

MS THABETE: Can you elaborate what happened?  Was it in the morning, was it in the afternoon?  I mean can you just give background as to how he was actually shot?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: There was political violence in that area and we were shooting each other and he was shot at and police came, that's how we stopped fighting each other.  That's all I can say.

CHAIRPERSON: We were not there Mr Ndlangamandla, we would like you to elaborate or to paint a picture for us.  When you say there was political violence what exactly do you mean.  Were there political organisations in conflict or fighting each other on that day, whether it started on the very same day when your grandfather was shot?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I don't know how to put this, there's a mountain in between and there's one area on the other side and another area on the other side.  ANC and IFP were fighting each other and when the violence erupted my grandfather was shot and the person who was in front leading the ANC was Ben Nkosi.  I don't know whether you need me to go further.

CHAIRPERSON: What happened on that day, what sparked the political violence on that day?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: They were fighting because of the positions.  Even now they are still fighting because some they want to rule the place as to who must take over the position or be the leader, who must rule, whether the IFP or the ANC.  Even now there is violence in that area as to who must rule, either the IFP or ANC.

MS THABETE: I thought in your evidence earlier on you said this was - I may be wrong, I'm open to questions, this was predominantly an IFP area and you didn't want the ANC in your area, isn't that correct?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: Yes that's what I said.

MS THABETE: So who was fighting for leadership because it was clear IFP was a predominant organisation then?  Like wasn't it the other way around, wasn't the IFP chasing the ANC out, isn't that what you said or the picture you gave us?  Not ANC the other way around?

MHLETSWA ANTHONY NDLANGAMANDLA: I thought you said I must explain as to what happened before he was shot.

MS THABETE: You see why I'm asking you Mr Ndlangamandla, it's because you say you were there, you were present when it happened so I thought you would give us a good picture whether your grandfather was sitting at the house, people came in, they knocked.  Can you give us more details?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlangamandla, when your grandfather was killed were you present, did you witness his killing?