Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-19

MS MADONDO: I would like to explain something to the Chairman.  After he was released from prison, he went and saw the attorneys to sue the police.  The attorney was David Botha, he's now late and Priscilla Jana.  We also submitted a statement and when I asked Priscilla Jana about the files and we were told that another lawyer took over and those files were destroyed.  Just before he was going to appear in court, the police who assaulted him, that's when he disappeared because they didn't want to meet him in court because they had tortured him and he had opened a case against them, that's why they took him and killed him.

CHAIRPERSON: When did you go to inquire at the police, when he was arrested the first time and held under Section 6, or when did you go to inquire about his arrest?

MS MADONDO: On that morning after I received a call, I went to Protea police station.  It was after the first arrest and after he had opened a case against the police who assaulted him, that's when I went to the Protea police station and I found the car he was driving in the morning.  He just left his girlfriend's place and then he left for Kliptown, that's when they arrested him and the police told me that they just found the car and he had run away.  It was not possible for him to do that.

CHAIRPERSON: How many times was he arrested?

MS MADONDO: After he was arrested, he disappeared.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I've only asked you how many times are you aware of that he's been arrested by the police?

MS MADONDO: No, I lost count.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he many times arrested?

MS MADONDO: Yes and they will release him but in 1979 they never released him.

MS VAN DER WALT: I think it is perhaps important, it does appear in the bundle, but I would just like, I put it chronologically together this morning and I would just like to put it on record, according to your question now, that it appears from the bundle page 130, that Oupa Madondo on 28/7/1979, was arrested and furthermore it appears that while he...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Could you go a little bit slower so that they could interpret it in the meantime and we could write down what you say?  Page 131?

MS VAN DER WALT: On page 130, Oupa Madondo was arrested, on that page 130 that was on the 28th of the 7th month 1979.  Then the assault charge was laid on page 124, it appears on 4 September 1979 where he complained that on the 28th, 29th July and on the 31st August he was assaulted.  His application for release appears on page 122.  That is the fact that he escaped in terms of Section 61.  I would just like to refer you to the fact that the date does not appear but it can only be the 9th month.  Why I say that, if one looks at the Section 6, it appears on page 121, then the date appears to be the 18th of September, that this application has to be just prior to this, but it appears to be in September and then on the 18th of the ninth month, he was released from the police service.  I was just trying to explain the dates to you, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: On page 123 it says that
"It might be the 20th of September that assault was already investigated and brought under the attention of this office and investigated."

MS VAN DER WALT: It also appears to have been during that time and then afterwards there was a subsequent letter saying that there was a witness, that was on page 119, on 20/11/79 there was a letter to the Secretary of Justice to say that there was no witness to substantiate these allegations.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Ms Samuel?

MS SAMUEL: No re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS SAMUEL

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson, I've got some questions.

MR MAPOMA: Ma'am is it your evidence that prior to his disappearance the deceased was arrested and detained?

MS MADONDO: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Now during that unrest, after his release, is it your evidence that he laid some charges against the police?

MS MADONDO: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Do you remember what year was that perhaps?

MS MADONDO: 1979.

MR MAPOMA: Do you remember how long was he detained before he got released?

MS MADONDO: I don't remember whether it was a month or two, but it was a long time.  I'm not sure whether it was a month or more than one month.

MR MAPOMA: Now Priscilla Jana, the lawyer, what did she do?  Did she sue the police or what was her role perhaps, if you understand?

MS MADONDO: She was suing the police who tortured him.  She had opened the case against the police who assaulted him.  At the time she was a political attorney.

MR MAPOMA: Are there some individual police officers who were alleged to have been involved in those assaults that you know of?

MS MADONDO: He wrote a letter to the Attorney-General.  I don't remember the names of the police.  He mentioned them but I don't remember them.

MR MAPOMA: In your evidence in chief you said that the deceased knew van Rooyen and Visser.

MS MADONDO: Yes and van Vuuren, these three they actually frequented our home.  We all knew them even my family members, they knew them because they frequented our home.

MR MAPOMA: Now those police whom you've just mentioned, did their names feature or not, to your knowledge or recollection, in the case that was opened against police prior to his disappearance?

MS MADONDO: I don't remember, it has been a long time, but all I know is that he had written down.  I wasn't there when he was tortured but he did tell us that he was tortured by the police and he wrote the names down.

MR MAPOMA: And is it your evidence that his arrest up till his disappearance, coincided with the date of the trial against those police?

MS MADONDO: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: When was this date of his trial?

MS MADONDO: I don't remember, I'll just estimate.  I think it was in October, November.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there a trial date set already?

MS MADONDO: Even though the date was set, I think that they had already started discussing  ...(end of tape)
then you go to court, then they will give them another date.

CHAIRPERSON: There must have been accused who had been arrested and then a postponement would follow.  Who were the accused that were arrested and brought before the court?

MS MADONDO: I didn't attend the court case.  For all I know is that he had opened a case against the police.  I didn't go to any court and he disappeared after he had opened a case against the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR LAX: Ms Madondo, do you know if this was a criminal case or a civil case or both?  Do you know what Priscilla Jana actually did?

MS MADONDO: I know that he had been assaulted so he had opened a case against that because they had tortured him and they also put a snake in his neck, around his neck.

MR LAX: Okay.  In your statement at page 102 you talk about seeing a policeman who worked at John Vorster Square but you don't say anything about what that man said to you.  The statement is silent as to what the relevance of that person was.  What information did that person give you?  Why do you mention him there in your statement?  Shall I read you what it says there and then it can be translated for you.  It says
"Thereafter I saw one of the policemen whom I knew to be working at John Vorster Square, now known at Johannesburg Police Station.  Apparently I had a friend who worked at the Magistrate's court by the name of Thomas and that is how I knew this policeman."
Why did you insert that in your statement?  What were you trying to tell whoever you were making the statement for?