Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-24

CHAIRPERSON: And in your statement you say that you were arrested because of the public violence.  What public violence was that?

WITNESS:   We were arrested because we were trying to help our comrade because someone was fighting him.

CHAIRPERSON: Somebody was fighting there.

WITNESS:   The people who were fighting with the comrade are those people who were fighting in that house.  As all of us were members of the ANC Youth League we could not leave one of our comrades being fought by the police and the councillors, because all of them were our enemies.  That is why we decided that we should come and fight against this policeman as he was fighting against our fellow comrade.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And you say that you were charged.  Were you charged for violence when you were arrested?

WITNESS:   Since I was arrested I don't know what happened to the case.  I didn't go to court.  I was never called up to this day.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, I am not going to push you on your statement.  Who is Dr Nel?

WITNESS:   That is the doctor who said to me the bullet didn't penetrate, but it just passed through.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he examine you?

WITNESS:   He didn't examine me, he just touched on my neck, and then thereafter he gave me pills and then he cleansed the blood on my neck, then thereafter I was released and I was taken to the van and returned to the police station.  Then they said I should be released, "But at any time, even in the mines, we can come and fetch you."

CHAIRPERSON: And then how did you meet Dr Swart?

WITNESS:   Dr Swart is working in the mines, who is handling the x-rays, as I did explain that in the mines after a certain period you are taken to x-ray examination as to whether you are still fit to work in the mines.  That's where Dr Swart was able to identify the bullet in my neck.

CHAIRPERSON: And so the bullet was taken out from your neck?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was removed in the Oppenheimer Hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: So, what is your feeling against Dr Nel at the present moment?

WITNESS:   He looked like a liar because he didn't do his work.  He must explain why he didn't do his work correctly, that he lied that the bullet didn't penetrate me, and then it was only identified by another doctor.  In other words he was trying to make me suffer for the rest of my life with a bullet inside my body.  He was not working professionally like a doctor.

CHAIRPERSON: So are you saying that Dr Nel colluded with those who shot you?

WITNESS:   It seems like that.  That is why he lied that the bullet just passed through, it didn't penetrate, and a second doctor was able to identify the bullet inside my neck.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, I think I have all what I wanted to hear from you.  Any members of the panel?

MR LAX: Just one quick question, Mr Aaron, just so there's no confusion about this.  Dr Nel was the doctor who treated you after the police had taken you there, is that right?  That would have been actually in Bethulie.

WITNESS:   Ja, I was taken to Dr Nel by the police.

MR LAX: Was he the State doctor for that area?

WITNESS:   No, he was a local doctor.  I don't know as to whether he was a State doctor or a private doctor.  That is the doctor who said to me the bullet didn't penetrate.

MR LAX: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Aaron, for telling us your story, which again shows that there was something wrong somewhere in the community.  I mean for a doctor to just say that there is no bullet without taking the x-rays, he is leaving some questions in one's mind.  And you have also stated that you would like to know why Dr Nel treated you that way, and you have already called him a liar.  And I think we will try to investigate this doctor and see why he said that there was no bullet when there was a bullet, when he was playing with a person's life.  Thank you very much for your story.

WITNESS:   I also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Can I call upon the next witness, that's Liesbet Thabantso, to come forward please.  Good morning, how are you?

LIESBET THABANTSO: I am fine, Sir, how are you?

CHAIRPERSON: I am also fine.  Thank you for coming here to tell your story.  It is a painful story indeed, but before you tell it Advocate Ilan Lax is going to make you take an oath.

LIESBET THABANTSO: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: When you tell your story just relax, because there is somebody who is going to help you when you are telling your story.  Professor Magwaza is going to take you through your telling of your story.

PROF MAGWAZA: Good morning, Liesbet.

WITNESS:   Good morning.

PROF MAGWAZA: We welcome you here, and thank you very much for coming forward to share your story with us today.  Liesbet, can you start by telling us something about your family - your parents, brothers and sisters?

WITNESS:   My mother passed away, but first died my brother.  That was in 1988.  He was shot by a policeman called Steerman.  My mother also passed away in 1990.  She was also shot by a policeman.  I am sorry, my brother was shot by Simano and my mother was shot dead by Steerman.  The two of them were policemen at Bethulie.  I am left alone now at home.  My other two brothers are in prison, the other one is in Virginia.  He is working for himself.  Nobody is helping me at home.  I am left with the twins and the other child.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay, I'll come back to your mother's death.  Before we get into the details of what happened in your family I would like you to tell us how as your brother killed, and why?  According to the statement here your brother, Lifa, was killed by a policeman and his funeral was also disrupted by the police presence.  Can I ask you one thing before you tell me what happened to your brother?  Was your brother politically active?

WITNESS:   Yes.

PROF MAGWAZA: To what political organisation did he belong?

WITNESS:  He was a member of the ANC.

PROF MAGWAZA: What sorts of things did he do within this organisation?

WITNESS:   He was working together with the ANC.

PROF MAGWAZA: At the time when he was killed was he working or was he a student?

WITNESS:   He was working outside Bethulie.  He was just visiting.

PROF MAGWAZA: What sort of work did he do?

WITNESS:   He was working as a contractor.

PROF MAGWAZA: According to the statement your brother was killed by the police, and you say that he was killed because he had successfully defended himself.  Before you actually tell us about the killing could you tell us what had happened before?  He had defended himself against what before he was actually killed?  You said there was a charge, and he defended himself against the charge successfully and therefore he was killed.  Can you tell us about that first?

WITNESS:   He was arrested by this policeman called Simano, and he was taken into court and every time he would come out clean.  And when he defeated Simano the last time Simano said he will show him because he defeated him in court.  And yes, he proved that he will defeat him, he killed him dead.

PROF MAGWAZA: Why did he have to go to court?  What case was it?  What was it all about?

WITNESS:   They arrested him for possession of dagga and other crimes that he was doing.

PROF MAGWAZA: (Inaudible) ... crimes?

WITNESS:   He was breaking into houses.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  Can you then tell us what happened, how he was killed?

WITNESS:   My mother was cooking a delicious meal on that day.  It was on a Wednesday, and she had just received her pension, and she gave my brother a little money to go back to work.  It was at about - it was late, the train was just about to leave, and Bunkie arrived at home to tell us that the deceased was lying somewhere and Simano picked him up.  He was going to throw him at the cells.  He picked him up at the station and he took him to the shooting range.  That is where he shot him dead.