Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

WITNESS:   No, I haven't. Mama, thank you for telling us your story.  You have suffered immensely firstly by the loss of your eye, then the loss of your son, and now having to live without him.  We hope that our office in Bloemfontein will at least be able to put you in touch with the health department, so that they can begin looking after your health.  We thank you for coming today and for telling your story to us. Thank you.   Mama, is there anything that you would like to tell us?   ---   No.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama.

CHAIRPERSON: /BELLA JOYCE MOLOSIA

CHAIRPERSON: BELLA JOYCE MOLOSIA   (Sworn States) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Good.   Mama, we have asked Miss Virginia Gabashe to assist you with the telling of your story.  She will now lead you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chair.   We appreciate the fact that you have come from so very far to come and give your testimony, so that you can be counted amongst the women who have appeared before the commission to share their stories with us.   Before we start talking, I shall ask you to just give us a brief description or a brief picture of your family, whether you still have a husband, children, are you working, are they working or are they still at school.

WITNESS:   I do have children.   I do have a husband, but he is not employed.   He is in pension.  The children are present and they are staying at their places.   There are two of them, it is a girl and a boy.  They are both married.

UNKNOWN: Are they staying at their own places?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am staying  with my husband only, at the present moment.

UNKNOWN: You have come to relate your story about being harassed by a certain gang called the "Three Million", which was in Kroonstad.  Can you please start by telling us as to what happened to you, according to your statement?

WITNESS:    In 1990, on the 1st of December 1990, I was  harassed by the  Three  Million  gang,  because they killed my sister's child, who was staying with me, and he was my responsibility, because he did not have parents.

UNKNOWN: What is the name of that?

WITNESS:   It is Clement Moguni(?).

UNKNOWN: Clement Moguni.   You said here in December 1991, according to your statement, is it 1991 or 1990?

WITNESS:   It is 1990.   On the 1st of December.

UNKNOWN: He doesn't  have parents  any more?

WITNESS:    Yes, he doesn't have parents.   His parents died a long time ago.

UNKNOWN: You can go on and tell us what happened.

WITNESS:   Clement was killed by the Three Million gang, and when they killed him it was on a Saturday, I was not present at my place, I had gone to a stokvel society.

UNKNOWN: Amongst the Three Million, is there any one of them that you can identify who was present at the time of the killing?

WITNESS:   (No audible reply)

UNKNOWN: Amongst the members of the Three Million gang could you identify any?

WITNESS:   I was not present when they killed him.

UNKNOWN: They were a certain gang and they used whistles.

WITNESS:  I was fetched by a policeman, who told me that as the whistles were being blown, they had already killed your sister's son, so you should run away, that's what the policeman told me.   That policeman was Constable Magele(?).

UNKNOWN: Is he still alive?

WITNESS:   No, he has since been deceased.   He was able to get me some refuge and I went to the old location, I left my house as it was, and I went to where I was born.

UNKNOWN: When you ran away, where did you go to, what is the name of that place?

WITNESS:   It is Marabastad.   I went to Marabastad.

UNKNOWN: At whose place?

WITNESS:   I went to my place where I was born.

UNKNOWN: Where were you born?   What is your surname?

WITNESS:  My surname Rabanye(?).

UNKNOWN: Who is still alive at that place Rabanye?

WITNESS:   That place is still under me but I have leased it out so I ran to the people who had hired the place.

UNKNOWN: Who are these people?

WITNESS:   The old woman died.

UNKNOWN: You can go on.

WITNESS:   Then on the afternoon of that particular day, when Magele came to fetch me.  He asked me whether I wanted to see Clement's body.   We went together with my sister to see the corpse.

UNKNOWN: Who is your sister?

WITNESS:    It is Gertrude Naledi(?).

UNKNOWN: Naledi is the surname, is she still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is still alive.

UNKNOWN: And where is she staying?

WITNESS:   She is staying in Kroonstad.

UNKNOWN: Whereabout in Kroonstad?

WITNESS:   She stays at Marabastad, 9th Avenue, next to the Methodist Church.

UNKNOWN: You can go on.

WITNESS:   We went together with my sister.   When we got to where the corpse was, we found that the corpse was being looked after by a certain policeman called John Masoleng.

UNKNOWN: You can go on.

WITNESS:   And John Masoleng was harassing us, and my sister was quite scared to come near the corpse, and he told us not to open and inspect the corpse, and I defied him and decided that I was going to open the corpse so that I could identify him.   And he said, "Here's our dog, it's dead, and it is lying there".  He actually didn't want us to get anywhere near the corpse or see the corpse, but I insisted and I defied him.  I told him that I had the right to see the corpse of my relative.   Then after seeing it, we went back with my sister.

UNKNOWN: In your statement you also mentioned that you went to M... (inaudible) ... so that you can get the death certificate?

WITNESS:   Yes, I went to ... (inaudible) ... on Monday.   It was on Saturday, on the 1st of December, when they killed him, and on the 3rd it was a Monday, and I went to ... (inaudible) ... to fetch the death certificate.   That's when I met the Three Million gang at the court.

UNKNOWN: And was M... (inaudible) ... at the court?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was at court, where I got M... (inaudible) ...

UNKNOWN: What happened thereafter?   Oupa Mashene, Babu and Mashangane, are they members of the Three Million gang, are they still alive?

WITNESS:   Babu is still alive, but Oupa Mashene and Mashangane are dead.   Babu is still staying in Kroonstad, but we usually do see him.

UNKNOWN: You can go on.

WITNESS:   Oupa Mashene said he wanted my house keys at Throbo(?), he wanted to go and stay there.   Because I was so scared I didn't know what to do, I was confused, I handed the keys over to him.

UNKNOWN: After you had given them the keys, what did they do?

WITNESS:   He threatened me, he told me that if I didn't give him the key they were going to break into my house and they were going to stay in my house whether I wanted them to or I didn't want them to.   After I had given him the keys, Dewete's(?) brother came.

UNKNOWN: You can take your time.

WITNESS:   When he got to me, he asked me as  to who had  taken the keys  and I told him.  Then he said I mustn't be worried, because he was going to try by all means that my furniture shouldn't be destroyed.

UNKNOWN: /Was it

UNKNOWN: Was it Dewete's brother who was saying that?  What was Dewete's brother's name?

WITNESS:   It was Woudi(?).

UNKNOWN: Take your time, we understand your pain.

WITNESS:  My furniture was not destroyed, even when I went there my furniture was still intact, but they took my house away from me, even today I am not staying in my house.

UNKNOWN: After they had taken the keys, did they go to stay in your house?

WITNESS:   That is correct, they went to stay in my house, and I ran to Kroonstad.  They wanted to kill me, they threatened me and they were saying I'm the comrade's mother.

UNKNOWN: When they said you are the comrade's mother, who are the comrades, where were they, what connection did you have with them?

WITNESS:   My sister's son who was killed was a comrade.

UNKNOWN: Now, when you were at M... (inaudible) ..., did you get your certificate?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did get the death certificate.

UNKNOWN: What did it state as the cause of death?

WITNESS:   I still do have it, but it is in the car.