Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-04-13

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, thank you for the opportunity of discussing this issue with the client.  As already explained to you that this whole issue is twofold to me, my position as well as the client's position.
	It now transpires that in fact, I have a difference with my client with regard to the pursuance of this matter.  I am asking for this matter to be remanded or to stand down until next week Monday, to enable me during the course of this week to prepare myself fully for this matter and I will give my reasons for that shortly.
	However, client's instructions are that although he accepts me appearing on his behalf, and although there is no problem with that whatsoever, he would rather that we proceed with the matter, not waste time and proceed with the matter not today, but tomorrow.
	That obviously presents me with a problem if I am obliged to proceed with the matter on his behalf, if I am not prepared, fully prepared, then I am absolutely not in a position to do so and I am not prepared to do that.
	However, client, the applicant, Mr Bellingan also made a further suggestion which is a suggestion from his side and which I do not necessarily agree with, is that Mr Bellingan himself would like to take charge of his representation, however with the assistance of legal representation.  This is something not frequently seen, obviously in court or any forums, and I don't think the Act itself makes provision for that, criminal or civil procedure doesn't make provision for that, and I don't know to what extent that can be accommodated in this forum.
	However, to start out with my position and I think I should just put it on record, is that I received instructions in this matter from Attorneys Strydom Britz on Wednesday, last week.  I don't know what the date was, but in any event, it was just before the weekend then, a few days ago and ...

MR TRENGOVE: Mr Chairman, with respect to my learned friend, I am not quite sure what he is busy with, because there can't be any distinction between the Advocate's request and his client's request.  I appreciate that they might have differences of opinion, but the advocate is here only as an agent of his client, and between the two of them, they have to make up their mind, what the client's attitude is and what it is that he wants.
	I have full appreciation for my learned friend's predicament, if he wants to explain it to you, to explain why he feels personally embarrassed, I have no objection, but we have to have it clear at the outset, what it is that they are seeking, is it a postponement until tomorrow or is it a postponement until Monday, or is it that we proceed immediately with Mr Bellingan appearing without legal representation, but with a lawyer next to him to advise him.
	The other side owe it to us to tell us at the outset what we are talking about.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that is fair enough Mr Trengove.  I had thought that Mr Hattingh is explaining how it came about that he is where he is this morning, before he comes with what really the request is, because it is so as Adv Trengove indicates, of course, that there is only really one choice.  I mean, you have to present you know, one approach to the Panel.  I assumed that what you were busy telling us, was simply just how you got your instructions and when you got it and that you will then tell us what the request is that is being addressed to us.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, yes ... Mr Chairman, if you will just bear with me for one moment.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I have now taken instructions and I will request a postponement of this matter until Thursday this week, to enable me to prepare for this matter.
	I may just add that Mr Bellingan's attitude is that he is very happy about the developments, he is concerned that this hearing will not be completed by the end of next week and he doesn't want the matter to carry on indefinitely.  The basis on which I ask or I put this request for a postponement of the matter until Thursday is that I did receive instructions last week Wednesday, after the withdrawal of Adv Du Plessis.
	During the course of Wednesday, Thursday and Friday I received documentation running to approximately 6000 to 7 000 pages and although I initially thought that I would be in a position to prepare fully and be ready to proceed today, it transpired that I was in fact not ready and that it will still take further time to prepare myself for this matter.
	When I make the request that the matter stand down until Thursday, I do so on the presumption that I will be able to read through all the papers and in fact prepare myself fully to pursue this matter on Thursday.
	Mr Bellingan asked me and I can obviously expect this Committee also to ask for me whether I can give any guarantee as to whether I will be ready to proceed on Thursday, whether I would be fully prepared.  I am not in a position to give this guarantee as much as I would like to do so, and I cannot give this guarantee, however, I think that three days would give me adequate time to prepare myself and to be ready on Thursday.
	However, added to that, should it happen that I am not ready on Thursday, the instructions of client are that in those circumstances, I will then have to withdraw as his Advocate and his representative in the matter, and he will then seek the indulgence of representing himself with the assistance of some for of legal representative or person to assist him in this matter.
	The bottom line, or the gist of that is that should I not be ready to proceed on Thursday, then there will be no further time wasted and the matter will be proceeded with, but then Mr Bellingan will represent himself.
	If there is anything in particular that your Committee would like me to further explain about my position or Adv Du Plessis' position, I would gladly do so to the extent that I am instructed with the particulars thereof, but at this stage I can merely say that I am not ready to proceed and I need at least until Thursday to enable myself to prepare myself for this hearing.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you been placed in possession of all of the documentation that relate to the application?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I believe so.  I may just say that yesterday afternoon, during my further consultation with my Attorney, in an effort to get information to assist me not to waste too much time on irrelevant documentation, it transpired that I in fact had two further bundles not yet in my possession.
	I actually got further information yesterday, but it would appear at this stage that I've got all the documents, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you discussed the matter with Adv Du Plessis?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I haven't discussed it today again with him, I only discussed the matter with him on Friday afternoon, when I once again tried to get some background information and pointers as to how, the best way to go about going through the papers without wasting time.
	I cannot tell this Committee the reasons for his withdrawal, apart from stating that he was obliged to withdraw and he advised at the earliest stage that it was possible to do so, but for the reasons for his withdrawal, I did not go into those and indications were that I should rather not try to get all the reasons and weigh them myself and I shouldn't apply my mind to those.