Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-19

MR SAMUEL: Please proceed.
MR MBANE
"We went from Vlakplaas as a unit, we came to Durban, CR Swart.  When we arrived in CR Swart, we stayed for about three days.  We would patrol in town.  On this third day, if I'm not mistaken, I was called together with Simon Radebe and Dube.
		We were introduced to one man who had an injured leg.  We were then told that this man had an information that there were four terrorists in the township, in KwaMashu township.  So this man was supposed to show us this house where these terrorists were staying.
		I, together with Dube and Radebe, who was the driver, and together with this man who was going to show us this place.  Radebe stopped the car on the way and dropped us on the way.  I think about one kilometre or less than a kilometre to this place.  We then left with this man and then he introduced us as his comrades in this house.  He went to this house.
		We told the deceased that we were coming from outside, we just wanted to see how the other comrades were working.  He told us that there were problems and there was one man who had a problem concerning accommodation and he was not safe where he was staying, but she would go and tell him that there are other comrades from outside who were in that house.  So we agreed upon that.
		We made an appointment with her to meet on the following day.  We went back and then we found Radebe at the place where we left him.  We went into the car and we gave him a report-back of what happened.  We left, we went back to CR Swart.  
		When we arrived there, Radebe gave a report to the white people who were our seniors.  They called me and Dube and this other guy who had plaster of paris and we told them that we were, they accepted us in that house and we told them that we had to find something that would assure them that we were coming from outside.
		We were then to get weapons from the Eastern Bloc, a Makarov and AKs.  We got them and then we put them in a bag.  The following day at night ...  There's something that I forgot.  Ntombi gave me the phone numbers where I should contact her and she also said that that was a well known place, that house.  So I phoned her and I told her that we were coming and I asked whether she had organised this person that needed accommodation to be there, and she said that we must not talk those things over the telephone.
		When we went there, Radebe again dropped us nearby, because we had not introduced him to Ntombi, so when we arrived I told her to put this bag in the bedroom in a safe place.  She then took the bag and I told her that there is another man who is helping us in connection with transport and we had left that man in a certain place, we did not want to bring him because he was not aware of what we were doing, but he was helping us with transport.  So she said that that is not a problem, we can bring this man to the house.
		I sent Dube to go and call Radebe, where he stopped the car.  Dube came with Radebe.  We parked the car outside and we introduced him as our sympathiser and as the driver of the transport that we were using.  We then said to Radebe we were welcomed in the house, so we asked him to go and buy some drinks, so that we can drink.
		The deceased organised and Radebe took out some money, but I can't remember how much.  The deceased then left, she sent a child to go and buy some liquor, then that child came back and we drank.  And we found out that she was not able to get these men that needed accommodation, so we went back to CR Swart.
		I then suggested that because we go in and out of CR Swart, we would not know that someone maybe is following us, maybe someone in the area would follow us and then that person would be surprised because we said we were terrorists, so what were we doing in the police station.  I suggested that we find another place to stay.  Botha and Coetzee, they said that we had to get another place to stay, they would try and organise that.
		On the third day we did not go back there.  We were told not to go out of the base, to remain in the base until we get a place to stay.  We stayed the whole day in the base.  On the fourth day we were told to take our clothes, because accommodation was found."
...(intervention)

MR SAMUEL: Sorry Mr Chairman, may we request a short adjournment, I believe Ms Thabethe has to attend to some business.  ...(indistinct) five minutes adjournment - three minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take a short adjournment
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Samuel, you can continue.

MR SAMUEL: Continue, Mr Mbane, but please go slowly, so that the Interpreter gets an opportunity ...

CHAIRPERSON: Yes when we adjourned, Mr Mbane, you had said that after waiting that time, you were told to take your clothes as accommodation had been found for you.
MR MBANE
"We took our clothes, we went to the kombi.  We drove to Winkelspruit.  At that time I did not know that that area was Winkelspruit.  When we arrived there, we also canvass tents, we then build a house with those and then we also had food, groceries.
		That same night, Dube and I and this other man who was operating with us at that time, we went back to Ntombi.  When we arrived there we asked how things were and then she said that she found this man that was looking for accommodation, but since it was at night, she would not be able to go and fetch him, because he was staying in squatter camps.  We then said that we would come back the following day, but we did not want to frequent that house, because she told us that that house was already suspected.  She then said that if we would come during the day it would be better.  If I'm not mistaken, it was on a Saturday, but I'm not sure about that.
		On Saturday we arrived there at about four.  We arrived at about four and when we arrived there we were together with Radebe.  When we arrived, I went with Ntombi, we went to a certain corner, we stood there and she left me for about two or three minutes.  When she came back, she came back with this man, but I can't remember his name, because we were calling each other comrades.
		I was introduced to this comrade.  We then decided to go to the house, we did not want to chat on the street.  We went back to Ntombi's house.  When we arrived there we asked him questions, Dube and I, asked him questions, because Radebe was not that involved, he was helping us with transport and with money.  So he did not say anything.
		Dube and I and Gipbene(?) were the ones who were talking to this man.  This man told us that he had financial problems ..."
...(intervention)

MR LAX: Sorry, could you just repeat the name you mentioned now, something like Gipbene or ... something like that, I don't know what the name was.

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Gripbene.

CHAIRPERSON: Gripbene, is that gips?