Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-30

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: After I had made enquiries from the comrades, realising that I did not obtain assistance from them, I then called Sifiso Malevu and explained the problem to him.  When I left Sifiso was an active comrade in the UDF.  He is one of the people whom I trusted.
	When I returned from exile, he is one of those persons who assisted me in getting my way around South Africa, because at that time things had changed.  When I returned from exile, I also gave him some information about the ANC and I also trained him under ground so that if I needed assistance, he would be in a position to help me.
	I contacted him, I explained the problem of Mkababa people to him.      I informed him that comrades from Mkababa were short of firearms, whereas they were under attack from the IFP and the Security Forces.   I was telling him this because I felt that perhaps he could have suggestions as to what to do, because he had been inside the country all the time.
	I also informed him that I nor any comrades from exile, had firearms.   It was decided that we should identify a place from which we could get weapons.  As we were still discussing the issue of robbing a place to obtain firearms, we could not come up with any suitable venue.  This was discussed over several weeks.
	As time went on, we were still involved in that exercise of identifying a venue.   Eventually we decided that we shall rob and get money so that we could go to Lindani, who would then identify somebody who would sell us firearms, because there were weapons that filtered from places like Mozambique.
	That is what we discussed, and decided with Sifiso.

MS MOHAMED: When you were having these difficulties, did you tell Mr Lindani Nteani about these difficulties?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: We would see each other from time to time, and I would tell him that he should wait whilst I was still devising means of obtaining those firearms.

MS MOHAMED: Okay, and then you and Mr Malevu, you said earlier, you discussed these difficulties.  What happened thereafter?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: After our discussions, which went on for several weeks, as well as carrying out some reconnaissance at those places which were potential venues.

MR LAX: What places were these, sorry?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: For instance we went to look around town and some areas outside town where firearms were sold, but we could not find a suitable venue.

MR LAX: But you were looking for places where you could get money, not where firearms were sold?  You had given up on the firearms?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: As I mentioned before, we initially looked for a place where we could obtain firearms, so we abandoned that idea.  In stead we looked for a place where we could rob money to buy those firearms.
	At that time, we had not identified a place where we could rob money.

MS MOHAMED: Yes, and then what happened?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: At the beginning of 1992, Tulani Shabalala who came from Empangeni arrived, and on his arrival, he came to see me and I knew him from exile where he had undergone a crash course at Bangwe.
	He reported to me the situation that prevailed at Empangeni at that time.  There was violence between the ANC and the IFP.  He told me that there was an SAP member by the name of Steyn, who was a great danger to ANC comrades, because he supported the IFP.  
	Because of this Steyn and this colleagues, they could not get to the IFP.   Tulani then requested that we assist him in killing Steyn.   I listened to that request and told him that I would see what I could do.  I did not promise him anything at the time, for the reason that we were busy.
	Tulani then returned to Empangeni.  I promised him that I would follow him shortly, I would see what plan I could come up with.

MS MOHAMED: Sorry Mr Mpanza, before you go on, Tulani Shabalala, what was he also known to you as?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Tulani was a Chairperson of the ANC at Empangeni.  I also knew him as a comrade in UDF and COSAS before I left the country.
	Moreover I trained him at Bangwe, where he underwent a crash course.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you.   To take you back to your evidence where I interrupted you, you said to Mr Shabalala that you would see what you could do to assist him?  You can continue from there.

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I told him that yes, I have heard his problem and I would see what I could do.  He then left and I told him that I would send somebody to Empangeni to see him.  He then returned to Empangeni.
	After that, I discussed the matter with Sifiso, that comrades from Empangeni are involved in a war with the IFP, and there is this person, this policeman by the name of Steyn, who has become very problematic to them.
	I explained that comrade Tulani had come to request me to kill this Steyn, because they were of the opinion that if he were to be killed, perhaps they would make some progress.  	I then requested Sifiso to go to Empangeni to see Mayibuya.  I telephoned Shabalala to inform him that Sifiso would meet him.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Mpanza, just for clarification, Mayibuya and Shabalala were one and the same person, isn't that correct?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, that is correct.  Mayibuya was his combat name, which I used when talking to Sifiso.

MS MOHAMED: To take you back to this point, you said you had telephoned Mayibuya?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Yes, I telephoned Mayibuya and I was with Sifiso, I informed him that Sifiso Malevu would come to him and that is the person with whom I was going to discuss everything.
	They then discussed over the telephone, over where to meet.  Sifiso then left for Empangeni.  This happened on a different occasion.   
	Okay, and then what happened after Sifiso went to Empangeni?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: Sifiso left for Empangeni, he spent two days there.  He returned and informed me that the situation was quite bad.  The houses were being burnt, (indistinct) that these attacks were carried out by the IFP.
	He told me that he went and saw Steyn, therefore he was in a position to identify him.  He also informed him of where he worked.   However, he realised that it would be difficult to kill him at his place of work, because that was a police station.
	Because we were also involved in trying to obtain money, Sifiso came up with the suggestion that we should target a place nearby a police station, because the police such as Steyn, who were from the Murder and Robbery Unit, would be the first to respond if something happened.
	Sifiso then told me that we could kill Steyn by robbing a place nearby the police station because he would be the first or amongst the first to arrive, should such a robbery take place.    Sifiso then identified a place nearby, which was Avocas Wholesalers.   He identified that place because it was near and there were not many people around there, so there would not be many casualties, or people who would be caught in the crossfire.  We were also convinced that the Murder and Robbery Unit would be the first to arrive at the scene, should we commit this robbery.

MS MOHAMED: So you then agreed with Sifiso's plan that you should rob the place in order to lure Steyn to the scene as it were?

ZIBA GERALD MPANZA: I understood his proposition, and I requested him to take me to Empangeni to that place, so that I could also see Mr Steyn as well.
	Sifiso also came up with the suggestion that if we were to rob that place, we would be in a position to assist the Mkababa comrades to buy firearms.   At the same time, we would also be able to execute the mission that had been suggested by Tulani, which was killing Mr Steyn.
	It was not important where we obtained the money from, as long as we got it so that we could buy firearms.  That plan assisted us in accomplishing both these missions at the same time.

MS MOHAMED: Okay, now you said earlier that you requested Sifiso to take you to Empangeni.  Did you in fact go to Empangeni with Sifiso?