Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR HLONGWANE: : Mr Ngleco was supposed to knock off work late, so we waited outside his house.   The guys that I was with seemed to be a bit tipsy because I had to wake them up several times.   They were sleeping.   I had a knife and then I woke them up.  On doing so we looked around and we waited for him to approach the gate.   As he was just about to approach his gate, he was with other people.   We came out of our hiding place and we greeted him.   He became suspicious.   What I noticed of that Mr Ngleco, he had some sort of brick or stone because when one of the boys raised his arm to aim at him, he hit him with a brick on the head, and the gun  that Temba had was a revolver, a 38 revolver, belonging to Shakes.  When he was hit by a brick, I retreated and drew my gun.   Temba fell and the gun fell away.    I grabbed Temba and Mr Ngleco started running away.   I did not fire my gun but I know that the others did fire.   I dragged Temba and I hid him among some flowers.   I went back to Chief Motaba's place.   As I got there...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, please be quiet.   Sorry can you just repeat that Mr Hlongwane?    Can you just say that again, I didn't hear with the noise.   You said you went back.

MR HLONGWANE: : I went back and I found Chief Motaba drinking Hunter's Gold Cider.   I told him that the boy, Temba, was hit.   He reprimanded me.   I told him that you had said that the boys were sharp.   We then got into his car and went to the Silumbele Police Station.   On arrival there, there was a policeman, light in complexion.   I have forgotten his surname.   This policeman knew me and he greeted me.   On that day this policeman was on duty.   He went into the van and I went with him, and we returned to Mr Ngleco's house.   I was asked to identify Ngleco's house.   I went there and I looked for the gun, and I couldn't find it.   At that time the policeman was speaking to Mr Ngleco, enquiring about the incident and at that time I was looking for the gun outside, and I couldn't find it.   Thereafter I went to Chief Motaba.   We never found the gun thereafter.

MR WILLS: : Did the policeman that accompanied you to Ngleco's house, know what you'd been up to earlier that evening?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes he knew that we were going there to look for the gun.

MR WILLS: : No my question was, did he know that you'd been responsible for an attack at that house earlier the evening, and the circumstances surrounding the loss of the firearm?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes he did.   Chief Motaba had told him the entire story.

MR WILLS: : You mention, on page 192 paragraph 156, `An Attack on a House at 45 Silumbele'.

MR HLONGWANE: : That's correct.

MR WILLS: : Can you tell us what happened on this attack?

MR HLONGWANE: : As I was still in the process of identifying houses to the IFP group from Johannesburg, Chief Motaba came to me and said I should go show them number 45.   This house was the place where ANC meetings were held.   I don't remember whether we fetched a White Kombi from ...(indistinct).   I think we used the Kombi, the Mitsubishi and Chief Motaba was driving it.   We went along the road and we passed the house and we stopped near the BIC and, at that time, we alighted and walked on foot, and approached the house from above.   There were people standing at the gate and we attacked those people first.    One of them fell and the rest ran away.   Thereafter we went into the premises.   There was a motorbike, a big motorbike in front of the kitchen.   It was dragged and burned.   We could not burn the house but we ...(indistinct).   Chief Motaba then took us back to eSikhawini.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwane, you said you attacked the people at the gate.   How did you attack them?

MR HLONGWANE: : We shot at them.

MR WILLS: : Mr Hlongwane, I just want to clarify something here.   This Kombi you referred to, is that the same Kombi that was sometimes used in operations in eSikhawini?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes it's the very same one.

MR WILLS: : This is the one that was fitted with the ZG Plates?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is the one.

MR WILLS: : You mention in paragraph 158, on page 193 about some boys at the Tugela High School, who were causing problems for IFP persons at the High School.

MR HLONGWANE: : Can you please repeat the question?

MR WILLS: : I refer you to page 193 paragraph 158.   You say that one day when you were in Mandini, one boy Bongani Hadebe told me that some boys at their school, Tugela High School, were harrassing  children belong to the IFP and assaulting them.

MR HLONGWANE: : IFP boys were being harrassed by the ANC.

MR WILLS: : Yes, and what did you do as a result of that?

MR HLONGWANE: : Bongani told me that I should attack those boys because they were on a trip or an outing, and IFP children were told not to go.   It was only ANC boys who went on this outing.   So we attacked these boys near Behla.

MR WILLS: : I'm not sure, it might be a typographical error here again Ms Committee Member.  Was that at a place called Duck City or Dark City?

MR HLONGWANE: : No, if I remember correctly Duck City and Behla are two different places.   The ANC boys went towards Duck City.

MR WILLS: : And did you attack them there?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : And four boys died as a result of this attack.  Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : And who were you with when you conducted this attack?

MR HLONGWANE: : I was with one boy who worked at Spar.

MR WILLS: : What was his name?

MR HLONGWANE: : I don't remember whether it was Gigi or Moosa.  I think ...

CHAIRPERSON: Quiet please.

MR HLONGWANE: : When I mentioned guns, I will have a problem.   I'll ask for pardon from the Commission because we used code names for different weapons.

MR WILLS: : On that attack Mr Hlongwane, is it true that you used an R1 and Gigi used a shotgun for this operation?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is true.

MR WILLS: : You are referring to paragraph 159 now.   You say that Mdlanduna phoned you some time when you were in eSikhawini and told you to go and guard, Nawoosa's house at Eshowe.   Is this Nawoosa Prince Gideon's driver.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: : And is he the same person who testified in your Trial when he tried to explain the reasons for you being given that Opel Monza car.   Can you remember if he testified at the Trial?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes he is the one.

MR WILLS: : Now - sorry.   If the Committee can just bear with me very briefly.   You say whilst you were at ... guarding Nawoosa's house, the house was attacked.   Is that correct?   And you assisted in the repelling of the attack.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Now, we are at page 194 now, paragraph 161 and that deals with the `Kidnapping and Murder of Nati Gumedi.'   I don't want to deal with that incident because it's been dealt with extensively by other witnesses.   Do you confirm what has been said in relation to your activities in that killing.   You confirm having participated in the killing of Nati Gumedi?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : And you confirm what the report of that as given by the two previous witnesses, Mkhize and Mhambo?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : And in relation to the murder of the four youths, one of whom was Befana Jeli, who you knew as Mdanda, at Paul ...indistinct) shebeen.   Mr Mhambo has given evidence in that regard.   Do you confirm the information given by Mr Mhambo.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : And do you also confirm that you also participated in the killing of these boys by using a shotgun?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Now, just - was anything taken from these boys after they died?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : Tell the Committee what this was.