Special Hearings — Prison Hearings — 1997-07-22

MR DLAMINI: Sorry Mr  Mthembu, can you tell us what was happening in that Clinic, why he associated it to hell?

DILIZA MTHEMBU: Yes.  I asked him what happened there in the Clinic, he said Botha are here, they gave him a cup of water.  They were sitting in a bench, everyone was given pills and so on and so forth according to what he feels.  Botha, they gave him very, I think, very little water to drink and then they were supposed to share it.  Those tablets, others they give them six, four, five, it depends.
 But Botha drank the whole water.  He said to me, you know the warder there,  I expected him to treat me, but he beat me up.  And then after that he was asked do you like, what kind of drink do you drink, do you drink coffee or juice or tea?  He said, no I drink coffee, I drink tea and then because that place was in a plantation, coffee plantation, you know, coffee stick, you can't break it.
 You can't break it, that stick.  They beat him with that stick in that Clinic.  It was just a reception how we were welcomed.  The next day in the morning, we were kept in the cell, you don't go out, you don't know any other inmates in other cells.
 You just know the other person outside if you know his voice, then you can say oh, yes, that is so and so.  If we are five in the cell or ten, if you have to stay for ten years or five years or six years, you will see only the face that you are with within that cell for that six years.
 What was very painful is that outside, you heard only footsteps of inmates running.

MR DLAMINI: Sorry to rush you Mr Mthembu, bear with us that we are running behind time and we have got other witnesses.  Can I check with you how long did you stay in the Quatro and what other things were happening there?

DILIZA MTHEMBU: I would say I stayed in Quatro for four and a half years.  For four and a half years.
 Beatings in Quatro was an everyday thing.  I remember when after a year in Quatro, we were taken out and then were made a crack force, our cell was a crack force because we were the ones who were chopping wood.
 We were the ones who were pulling the water tank almost 10 000 to 15 000 litres and that tank, an ordinary truck if it can pull it for six months, it is finished.
 But we used to pull that.  When beating, coffee sticks, thick as this in a, I would say (indistinct), but we were used to make it to run, that tank.  And mind you, that tank, we do it maybe twice, thrice or four times a day, going to collect that water to wash the uniform of the warders so that it can cook and they can wash themselves.
 If they bring that drum, a half drum of water and plenty of uniforms because water was scarce for us inmates, we will drink first that water in that tank and then wash that uniform after we filled our stomach with that water.
 You know, we felt relieved when it becomes darker because we know that at least at night, no one will come and open and come and beat us.  But when it goes through the morning, it is hell.  Everybody is awaken at five o'clock.  You can hear that sounds of birds, very early in the morning.
 And if you hear those foot steps of that warder coming to open the door, you know a test started again.  It was so stressful for us, we couldn't - I remember when we said, you know this place, for us it is like (indistinct) because Mzwandile Piliso will come once in a year and then that is when you know that maybe some prisoners will be released.
 And if he comes in your cell, and he greets you, then he goes out.  No one is going to be released, you have to expect him again next year.  And a year in Quatro, it is like ten years.

MR DLAMINI: So eventually, what happened?

DILIZA MTHEMBU: There were horrible things that they did to me.  I remember one warder by the name of Sonwabo - we went to chop the wood.  So I happened to look around for a stick because we were using a hacksaw and it was very early in the morning, round about eight o'clock, just for looking aside, he beat me from eight o'clock until twelve o'clock.
 Somebody beating you, even the peasants, local people complained about that you know, this is inhuman.  You can't do such things to your own, own fellow countrymen.
 You know he beat me until my tears went dry.  I cried, I cried until my tears went dry.  But I don't have any grudge against him.
 Once he made me to propose a tree.  In other words he was expecting me to propose to the tree as if that tree was a woman.  Sometimes these things make somebody to laugh, but it is what we experienced.  The worst part is that when I was interrogated whilst I was in Luanda is that I was asked about the activities of my father.
 I used to ask myself why, why does this have to happen to me?  You know I started hating my father.  But when I was in Quatro, I changed because of the conditions.
 I started at least getting a research, I said, no I must do a research about this man and make my own research and I happened to read the literature of the ANC.  There is no tangible, concrete information about him.  He is classified as an enemy provocateur.
 Then I read volume 1 to 3 of (indistinct), that is where I got the truth about him and I love him.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us a little bit about what you discovered about him, your father?

DILIZA MTHEMBU: I discovered he was a founder member of MK, he was in the first group that trained in China.  And he recruited many, many cadres for our own liberation.
 He contributed where he was able to contribute.  He was one time the President of the ANC in the Transvaal.  He was instrumental in (indistinct) those comrades who went and broke away and formed the PAC.
 That was in Orlando, the communal hall.  He was arrested many a times.  I remember when we were small, but the things that our parents couldn't tell us the truth, what was happening until such time, 1976, we had to leave the country.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, I just wanted to ask to get a gist of what you discovered about your father after he had been tattered and also my intention was to give us some feel of what was happening in Quatro camp and I know you had a lot of things to say about Quatro camp, but I think now we are quite familiar with what kind of a place it was.
 And eventually, okay, another thing that I would like to mention from your statement is that each time there was a visit by a senior member of the ANC, things would change for better for you and then when that senior member had left, you would go back to the horrible condition you were in.
 And in May 1990 you eventually came back.  My last question Mr Mthembu, is that perhaps one may - be it naively - say because of the conditions which were prevailing at that time, suspicions perhaps were inevitable and yes, the kind of treatment you received is unimaginable.
 My interest is now that you are back, now that things are normal, have you had time to reconcile with your colleagues that - look the situation was what it was at that time, even the State was using, was exploiting the situation to set you against each other and but now that things are normal, have you had time to reconcile with each other, members of the same organisation?