Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

WITNESS:   He is my mother's relative.  I am not quite certain whether my grandmother and his grandmother are sisters, but he is my mother's relative.  He is the one who used to give us information about the ANC, or to be an ANC underground member.  In 1984 he went to Maputo.  When he came back he came to my place at Hlobane.  We stayed there for two days.  He was a photographer.  And then he came to Vryheid.  When he went to Vryheid we never saw him up until today.  I never saw him.

MR LAX: He just disappeared?

WITNESS:   Yes, he disappeared.  The police took him.

MR LAX: How do you know the police took him?

WITNESS:   I heard this from other people that he was arrested, people who knew him, or who knew all of us.  That's why I would like the police to explain more about this, because Ernest left my place for Vryheid, and then I heard that the very same day he was arrested by police, but he never came back and I never heard what happened to him.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... let us have details of the witnesses who saw him being arrested?  Not now, you can do it later.  It's okay, we don't have to do it right away.  Now, arising - in 1994 you said that - you confirmed what I had said that your wife had been beaten up.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: You laid a charge about it.

WITNESS:   Yes, I did, but it never helped because the people who were involved, or the perpetrators, were police, and I gave statement to other policemen who knew these police.  Therefore nothing was done.  That's why I eventually decided to write a letter to Mr Mafumadi.  They never paid me back for anything they've damaged in my house.  I gave them a quotation but they never paid me.

MR LAX: There's something I want you to clear up for me please.  In your statement it says that you received some money from the Firearm Unit, R1 000,00.  We just need that explained.  How did that come about, or did it in fact happen?

WITNESS:   That's the money that I received after I gave them a quotation.  Because I gave them a quotation, but it was more than R1 000,00 for the damages they've caused in my house.  What they gave me, they gave me R1 000,00 in return.  But those damages were more than R1 000,00.  And the person whom I gave my statement told me that it will take time, it will take years for me to be compensated, so I must take that R1 000,00.  So I told them, "I can't take R1 000,00 because the damages were more than R1 000,00."  They forced me and then I took that R1 000,00.  I didn't want to take the R1 000,00 because I knew it was less what they've damaged.

MR LAX: If you give us the names of those people we can always check that up with them.  Now, before we continue I  must tell you that we have had some affidavits from some of the policemen.  If you'll just allow me a moment I'll just clarify which ones.

WITNESS:   I would like to hear that evidence.

MR LAX: One is from a Mr Mazibuko, Mfilisi Mazibuko, who says that he is unable to comment on this case because we wouldn't give him your name, and he therefore denies the incidents that happened.  So he basically says that he couldn't identify this case because we wouldn't give him your name.  Now, you spoke about a ... (incomplete - end of Side A, Tape 5) ... and he will get an opportunity to comment on what you've said.  I just want to put that on record at this stage.

WITNESS:   If you can excuse me a minute I would like to explain more about Mfiliso.  Mfiliso used to harass me a lot.  He is the one who used to come to my house continuously.  Even though he never beat me, but his deeds were awful and unkind, and he wasn't so sincere.  I would like to tell you that he never beat me.  White policemen, those who arrested me, I didn't know their names therefore it's difficult for me to say here that who were those policemen, but he is the one that can give you their names because he knows them.  And I still want my brother's body.  I still want to know where they buried my brother, because I need his body because we need to bury him.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Mr Mahlobo, you've told us that you've suffered certain health problems as a result of this situation.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  All of us.  And I am under medication, or I am taking medication.  I have high blood pressure.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... dizzy spells and you get confused at times.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: Before I proceed on to the next witness is there anything that ... (incomplete)

CHAIRPERSON: Numzana Mahlobo, I just have one question.  My colleague has covered most of the things.  You did mention that you are taking medication.  Besides taking medication do you see therapists or psychologists with regard to this?

WITNESS:   No, there isn't except for the medication.

CHAIRPERSON: Numzana Mahlobo, I didn't hear very well about your children.  I heard that you said you have six children.

WITNESS:   I have six children.  The first-born his name is Lindo.  He is 16 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he still at school?

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What standard is he in?

WITNESS:   He's in standard nine.  The second-born is Makabongwe.  Makabongwe is nine years old and he is in standard four.  The third-born is Siphepelo.  Siphepelo is eight years old and in standard four.  They are both in standard four.  The fourth-born is Ponzanane, and he is seven years old and in sub B.  And Thulakwande is five years old in first year.  And the last-born is Sibekezelo, one year old.  And I also have one child from outside marriage, who is 18 years.  I am not staying with her, but she is my dependant.  I am supporting her.

CHAIRPERSON: You said both of you and your wife aren't working.  Did you try and apply for pension?

WITNESS:   No, we never tried because we didn't know what to do or how to go about to apply for one.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson, and thank you Mr Mahlobo.  I am now going to speak to your sister, Christine.  Good afternoon, Christine.  We've heard a great deal about your family from your brother already, and I won't canvass those personal details any further.  You're going to talk to us about things that happened to you, and other things that happened to your other two brothers.  Now, you've told us that at some stage you were pregnant, and that you were then assaulted by the police during that time.  When was this?

WITNESS:   It was in 1981.  Police came late at night at about past 12.  They took my husband at work at Hlobane.  They came with him to my place.  They took me to Driefontein Police station, and then they took us in the early hours of the morning to Vryheid Police Station, where they locked us in custody.  Early in the morning the interrogated us and they assaulted us.  They asked us as to where our brothers were.  We told them we didn't know where they were.  They assaulted us and they kept on telling us that we were trained and we were used to go outside the country.  We didn't even have an idea what training they were talking about.  This happened from 7.00 am, and they used to make us stand from 7.00 until 5.00 pm, and they will take us back to custody.

MR LAX: Now, you said you were assaulted.  How were you assaulted?

WITNESS:   They will slap us, kick us, and they kept on telling us they need our brothers' whereabouts, because our brothers were terrorists.

MR LAX: How long were you held in custody for at that time?

WITNESS:    A week, and after a week they took me back home and they took Victoria.  They said they were going to interrogate Victoria.  It was the same whether I was at home or in a police station, because they were coming at home all the time.  I was harassed badly, and I got conditioned that if ever I would hear a car outside and I would be so scared and I will think it's them.