Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

WITNESS:   No, they came in and they exchanged words, and seemingly he was threatened and he decided to leave.  They were now going to a shack that was at the other side of Trebol.  I was dissatisfied.  On Sunday - I must say it was Saturday when they picked him up.  On Sunday morning, as we were still at home, at about past one, a boy from Trebol called Oba came running.  I was sitting outside the shack, and he said to me, "You are being called."  And I asked him, "Who is calling me?" and, you know, I thought I was being called because of my mother.  And I wanted to refuse the call, and ... (intervention)

UNKNOWN: Did he tell you who was calling you?

WITNESS:   No, he didn't tell me anything.  I remember on that day I had taken my child to the doctor.  The child wasn't feeling very well, and I had to rush to my in-laws to leave the baby so that I can go.  And the granny to my husband also accompanied me.

UNKNOWN: Do you know her name?

WITNESS:   Her name is Stompie Sikaledi.

UNKNOWN: What happened then?

WITNESS:   We ran, the two of us, and we got a taxi.  When we headed for Trebol it was just chaos in Trebol, because we drove past a police Hippo, but we didn't know who the occupants of the Hippo were.  It was just chaos.  My mother was lying on the floor, and our mothers were being insulted in an unforgivable way.  They were really chopping my brother-in-law.  The police were present.  They were not taking any action against the murderers, and the perpetrator, Dewitty, drank the deceased's blood.  And he took some of the parts.  It was just a situation nobody could understand.  I don't know what happened, how was the child saved.  At the time they were chopping him we got to know that it's Ramasimung who started with the chopping.  We do not know how the child escaped really.  I can't tell.  They chopped him.  You couldn't even identify him.  And they covered him.

UNKNOWN: Are you referring to the Three Million members?

WITNESS:   Yes.  We were not supposed to take a look at him.  When we wanted to open up to have a look they insulted us, they said we should move away from the corpse.  The corpse was here at this table and they were sitting at a distance of that chair close to the door.  They were guarding.  They didn't want anybody to come very close to the corpse. And the policeman from Welkom arrived.  I was still there with my mother and my in-law.  And they were all crying.  There was no assistance of any kind given to us.  This other policeman from Welkom called the Three Million Gang members.  They used to call this other person Machangani, his name was Machangani, and he was called by this other policeman.  And he asked him as to whether he knew the person, and Machangani said to him, "No."  As they were still chopping him they were together with this other policeman.  I do not know - I forgot his name.

UNKNOWN: Was it not Masoleng, was it not John Masoleng?

WITNESS:  It was John Masoleng.  Others were in their van, parking at a distance.  And this policeman asked him whether he knew the man and he said no.  Their clothes were full of blood and their weapons also were full of blood, but the police didn't take any action.

UNKNOWN: What happened thereafter?

WITNESS:   That was the end of the story.  We were told that people who saw this incident would be called to the court of law.  Until this day nothing has taken place.

UNKNOWN: Did you report this matter to the police?

WITNESS:   She was called to the charge office, and my mother and the mother to the deceased.  They promised that they would come and fetch them, but until to this day they were never fetched.

UNKNOWN: Did you get the death certificate?

WITNESS:   Yes.

UNKNOWN: What was written on the death certificate?

WITNESS:   It was written, "Still under investigation," but there was no court case at all.

UNKNOWN: Was there a post-mortem done at the mortuary?

WITNESS:  She went to court, but nothing came out of that.

UNKNOWN: Didn't you go to representatives?  Didn't you go to attorneys?

WITNESS:   You wouldn't be assisted at all when it comes to the Three Million Gang.

UNKNOWN: What was this Premier Milling?  I heard you talking about this Premier Milling.

WITNESS:   This was a company.  Now there were workers at this company and they were members of the ANC.

UNKNOWN: You said Three Million was evicting people from their houses.  Didn't the police take an action?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't take any action.  Many houses were burnt in that area.  They were looting the furniture and burning the houses.  When they came at night they wouldn't be ashamed of mishandling you in front of your husband.

UNKNOWN: Do you know a person who was manhandled in front of her husband?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was this woman who was  manhandled by these members.  I think she is now staying in town.

UNKNOWN: Don't you remember her name?

WITNESS:   No, I don't.

UNKNOWN: Let us then come to your family, Joyce.  We know that your husband has since died.  Do you have children?  How many do you have?

WITNESS:   I have one child.

UNKNOWN: Is it the child that was with the father?

WITNESS:   Yes.

UNKNOWN: What is the child doing?

WITNESS:   The child is at school.

UNKNOWN: How old is the child?

WITNESS:   The child is six years old.

UNKNOWN: What standard?

WITNESS:   It's sub standard A. Are you working?   ---   I am not working.

UNKNOWN: How do you survive then?

WITNESS:   My sister helps me.  If there is anything I need she gives me assistance.  She also assists me with my child.

UNKNOWN: Do you have parents?

WITNESS:   No.

UNKNOWN: Are they all dead?

WITNESS:   Yes, they passed away.

UNKNOWN: Your sister has been referring to mother, mother.  Was she referring to her mother-in-law?

WITNESS:   Yes, she was referring to her mother-in-law.

UNKNOWN: How were you affected by this incident?

WITNESS:   I developed epilepsy, and I would suffocate and I would feel pain at the chest.  No, I do not suffocate.

UNKNOWN: Did you go to the doctor?

WITNESS:   Yes, I have been to the doctor.

UNKNOWN: And what did the doctor say?

WITNESS:   The doctor said this trouble me a lot.  I was meditating about this thing.

UNKNOWN: Do you pay every time you see the doctor?  Do they let you pay?

WITNESS:   Yes, I have to pay.

UNKNOWN: How much do you pay?

WITNESS:   I pay R30,00.

UNKNOWN: Does the treatment help you?

WITNESS:   Yes, it helps me a lot.

UNKNOWN: How many times a week do you fall, because you have just said you fall?

WITNESS:   I fall once a week.  Especially when I am troubled by something I would have this asthma attack and I would fall.

UNKNOWN: Does this happen any time you get angry?

WITNESS:   Yes.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything you want to say, Letitia?  What do you do when your sister is attacked by this epilepsy?

WITNESS:   I remember at one stage she went to stay with my aunt for about two months.  She is the kind of person that should be kept busy at all times, because when she is on her own she would think of all the things in this world and she would be troubled.

UNKNOWN: What does she do when she is lying on the floor after falling?

WITNESS:   She would be quiet.

UNKNOWN: (Incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 5) ... to deal with her problem?

WITNESS:   No, we haven't thought of taking her to such people.

UNKNOWN: It would be a very nice thing to meet the social workers to give you an advice as to what to do, what channel to follow, because this kind of health will end up damaging your sister, and she has got a child to look after.  Is there anything else that you want to add, Joyce?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have anything.

UNKNOWN: We have listened to your story and we have noted everything.  We really feel for you, we sympathise.  We want to thank your sister, together with her husband, for the assistance that they have been giving you until now.  We want to thank you.