Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-02

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I requested a lady to accompany me because I did not want this to be heard in public.  I wanted it to be a matter that would be discussed with the family, but unfortunately that did not happen.

CHAIRPERSON: If you get an opportunity to make your peace with them now, are you prepared to do so?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, I have peace with the family.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know if they have peace with you, that's the point.  I'm asking you, if you had an opportunity to talk to them now, are you prepared to do so?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, but I don't know what their response would be, what would be their response.

CHAIRPERSON: You won't know until you try, isn't it?  Have you perhaps asked your attorney to make arrangements for that?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: And?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I was not successful because it was already late, it was time to appear in front of this Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you intend to pursue that aspect?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, I am prepared to do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp, you indicated that the mother of the deceased would want to say something.  I'm going to leave it in your hands to decide whether it is a matter that she wants to deal with to the general public, or say certain things to the witness.  I'm going to allow you the opportunity now, so that she doesn't have to attend the hearing unless she so chooses herself.  But her business would have been completed.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I will, if possible - I don't know what the time line is the Committee is working on.  Mr Chairman, if you would allow me just a second just to speak to her in the meantime Mr Chairman.  Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you - Mr Steenkamp is going to find out if she needs the witness here.  You'd better ask her.

ADV STEENKAMP: Yes sir.  Mr Chairman it seems that the mother is adamant that she wants to say a few words to the applicant.  Thank you for the indulgence Mr Chairman.  Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman her surname exactly is the same as that of Mr Jabulane Nyongwane, it's also her surname and her first name is Esther, Mrs Esther Nyongwane.
If, with your indulgence Mr Chairman, she's being assisted here by a family member, and if that will be allowed.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Nyongwane what language would you prefer to use?

ESTHER NYONGWANE: Zulu

CHAIRPERSON: I'm going to allow you to say a few words.  Do you want it to be a sworn statement, or do you just want to address certain people.  I don't know if you understand what is meant by a sworn statement?

ESTHER NYONGWANE: ...(no English interpretation)

CHAIRPERSON: Is she taking the oath?

ESTHER NYONGWANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, proceed.

ESTHER NYONGWANE: I can hear what you are saying.  What's your name by the way?  Sidney.  You would kill Jabulane without coming to me as Jabulane's parent, to tell me that, mama, here is Jabulane and there are suspicions like this, knowing very well that Jabulane was an ANC member not Inkatha.
	Sidney, my child, what made you not to come to me to tell me that Jabulane did this and that?  And tell me about the rumours that you heard?  I did not take you as enemies, my child's enemies, that you can even plan to kill Jabulane saying that he was an IFP member, knowing very well that Jabulane was an ANC member.  How could he be an IFP member, staying with you for six weeks at Vergenoeg, and kill him in the seventh week, knowing very well where his grandparents were staying and where his parents were staying.  Please tell me my child, what made you to do that?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Mam ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Before you - Mrs Nyongwane.  I'm taking notes of the issues you want to raise with him.  I will ask him on your behalf.  If you want to say anything further, please say it.

ESTHER NYONGWANE: Why didn't you come to me, as you were staying with him and he used to help you with a lot of things, he used to support you financially and with food whenever he gets his salary or wages?  Why didn't you come to me to tell me that there was a plan against Jabulane?  How do you feel today if, when you see me like this, all alone?  Jabulane used to pay my rent, he used to support me.  You know very well about my condition, and you used to be free at my home.  What made you to do such things?  I am all alone today.  How do you feel?  You see me walking up and down, I'm afraid to go back to my house, I cannot trust you.  I cannot trust you at all.  As you see me walking up and down I cannot trust you.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman that will be all.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: She can go back to her seat and listen to the answers as I'm going to put.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman if I may just, there's just one question apparently the mother wants raised.  She wants to know exactly what happened to the clothes of the deceased.  That's the only question.  Thank you Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Now Mr Nkosi, you've heard what the mother of the deceased has raised.  I'm going to deal with the issues one by one as I understand them, and if you want to you can respond.  Do you understand?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Nyongwane has said that the deceased stayed with you for six week before he was killed.  You knew where his grandparents stayed, and where his parents stayed.  What is your comment about that?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: Yes, we knew.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, what?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: We knew where his parents were staying, but during that six weeks that she is talking about, I know nothing about the six weeks.

CHAIRPERSON: She says six weeks before he died he stayed with you.

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: No, he was not staying with us.  He was at Vergenoeg.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, she says at Vergenoeg with you.

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: You say that didn't happen?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: She says further that he supported you, financially and with food.  What's your comment on that?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: As I have already indicated initially when I was giving evidence here, we used to be together, that is true, I never ran away from that truth.  He was more like a home boy to us.  Everything that she had said, that we would be in his home and we used to be happy in his presence at his home and I used to drive his car, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, I think what she's trying to get at is that you were so close to him you ought to have known that he was a member of the ANC, and not the IFP.  What is your comment on that?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: As we were staying with him, we wouldn't reveal at Penduka section, whether one was IFP or ANC.  That was to be a top secret, not to reveal yourself, because the environment was not safe.  It was not safe to tell the people about the organisation that you belonged to.

CHAIRPERSON: And his mother wants to know also what happened  to his clothes?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: We left him there, we fled.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know, do you not know how he lost his clothes?

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: No, I do not have an idea.

CHAIRPERSON: Now the most important question that she wishes to be answered by you, is why you never approached her.  You knew where she stays, or stayed at the time.  Why did you not approach her and tell her, this is what her son is getting up to, and maybe matters could have been sorted out that way.  You knew her.

SIDNEY VINCENT NKOSI: I want to say again that during those times people got injured and their families were known.  There was no time to go and visit their families, or explain to the mothers, because in some families they did not even know what happened to their loved ones.  That did not come to my mind, that such a process should take place, that people should go to the family of a suspect and report whatever.