Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-25

WITNESS:  I will try to shorten my statement.  From the beginning as I was - from the police I had problems.  In many instances we were taught about certain ideologies, and you were supposed to use our own discretion when you meet people, but when I was outside I found out that was not possible.  You were pressurised to arrest or detain people even if it was not necessary.  And then again if you don't do that they will become suspicious.  The other reason was that even though they claimed that the police should be independent, and they should not be aligned to a political party's ideologies, I felt pain in one instance when Mrs Maseko, whose son disappeared, who was shot at the head by Mr Madlovo.  I was - I didn't want to give false evidence, but I had to give false evidence because I was afraid.  Those were some of the reasons which made me to leave the police.  And then again I was assaulted at my place because I was staying with a certain gentleman who was called Diedrich Nyama.  He was an ANC activist.  That created suspicion among the police.  Then I became a target.  Then I decided that I am no more safe, and if you are a police you are ostracised by the general populace. Then I decided to resign within a period of five years as a policeman.  Those were a few of my reasons.

MR LAX: Now, in your - just before we move on to what your statement says, you say you were assaulted after Diedrich Nyama was discovered or arrested.  Where did those assaults take place?

WITNESS:   I was renting at 112 Cape Stands.  Then we were assaulted for reasons which we didn't understand.  And then even if we tried to open cases they would not be taken further.

MR LAX: And who were these people that assaulted you?  Were they your fellow police officers?

WITNESS:   Those were my colleagues.

MR LAX: Now, I am not asking them to name them now, because we haven't given them notice yet, but are you aware of

MR LAX: their names?  Do you remember their names?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do remember their names.

MR LAX: Maybe we could get them from you afterwards.

WITNESS:  I will give you a list of those names, even though some of them have since died.

MR LAX: Fine.  In your statement you say that you were pressurised to resign, you were forced to resign, and that this forcing was done by some senior police officers.  Could you explain that to us please?

WITNESS:   My resignation came in this way.  I was not able to move freely, I was always alone within the police force, even if the police station where I was working was a big one.  My life was at risk.  Then again I was ashamed when I move around in the ranks, bus ranks or taxi ranks.  It seems as if the community looked badly at me, and when we were searching people's houses, in other people's houses, you'd find people - people were selling traditional beer.  Then I used to pity the, because to tell the truth the conditions in which those people lived were brought by that condition, and those conditions were dehumanising them.  Those are a few of the reasons that, rather than to continue with my work in harassing people unfairly, I should leave or resign from the police and share with them and live with them under those conditions.

MR LAX: So ultimately you resigned.  You say by 1969 you had resigned.  I am sorry, please take your time.  (Pause)  There's no rush, just take your time.  When you're ready we can carry on.

WITNESS:   We can carry on.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Now, you said that by 1969 - in approximately 1969 you had resigned.  You then moved to Lesotho.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's true.

MR LAX: Now, what happened there?  You speak about being harassed by the police even at that time while you were in Lesotho.

WITNESS:   I ask this Commission to forgive me when I am crying.  It's not my intention, or to show people who are looking at me, but when I recall these incidents, these incidents which happened to me were painful.  But what I would say is that by then to be in Lesotho I had problems there.  There was a relationship between the South African Police and Lesotho Police.  And then again there were technicians like Mr van der Walt, who were sent to Lesotho to help the Leabua Jonathan's administration or government.  Although I was a South African citizen I was forced to go back to Ladybrand to renew my passport, because previously I was detained, and the circumstances not known to me that I was arrested because I was alleged to incite people in Lesotho to overthrow the Leabua Jonathan's government.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... separate situation which led to your repatriation to South Africa.  You spoke about being visited by Security Branch people - I am not sure whether they were South African Security Branch or Lesotho Security Branch - while you were still living in Lesotho.

WITNESS:   Since I was in Lesotho, mainly when I was arrested in Lesotho, I was detained for a certain period.  But before - Sergeant Minogo were able to move freely there, and they knew my whereabouts.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... South African Police or Lesotho Police?

WITNESS:   He was a member of the Security Branch in South Africa.  I knew him because we were stationed sometimes with him in Batho Police Station. And what would he do?  Would he come to your home and would he want to talk to you, or what exactly happened?   ---   Even if he was not coming directly to you you'd be able to say that he was surveying your movements, because there was a communication with other people who were members of the Lesotho Security Branch, because their actions were related when they were watching me.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... move then to the situation where you were detained.  How long were you detained for?

WITNESS:   I was arrested before Christmas.  I think it's before Christmas I was arrested.  I don't remember whether it was in 1968.  I don't remember the question well.

MR LAX: In your statement you said you were detained for approximately two months in Lesotho.  This was for being involved in inciting a riot, you said.  Tell us a little bit about that.

WITNESS:   I am happy, Sir.  When I was arrested for this inciting the riot I was in Lesotho.  I was not working, but selling vegetables.  I was staying with my first wife.  We were renting at Mrs Sina's house at Moyameng.  It was during the day.  We were at a place called Hamarundi.  I was selling then.  I was - I think it's a party.  I was drinking there at that party, and then in the afternoon I went back home.  When I left there I was a little bit drunk.  It was in the midnight when I woke up.  I was arrested and my wife was not present.  That is then I was arrested and put in gaol, and then I spent two months in detention.  My wife was moved to the police station and I was not allowed to see her, except once when she was at the charge office.  We had a child who was four years old. Now, how did it then come about that you were then deported to South Africa?   ---   What happened is that previously I didn't know the laws which governed the movement between two countries, because pass laws were introduced in 1963.  I was paying my tax at my uncle in Waterval in Lesotho.  I used to pay my tax there.  When I was in Lesotho I continued paying my tax there.  That is then that when I was arrested.  They found that my passport has expired.  I was only able to come and renew my passport in Ladybrand.  But van der Walt, I showed him in many instances, but I didn't tell him of my problems, and I didn't even show him my tax number.  He just thought that it is important for me to be deported back to South Africa, that I was not supposed to be there.  I was forced to come back to South Africa.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... of some kind?

WITNESS:   That is the Magistrate who was seconded or was working in Lesotho.  He was seconded to the Lesotho Government.  That is immediately after the independence of Lesotho.