Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duncan Village — 1996-09-24

BONGANI FINCA: We would now call Sakhile Macwashe and Griffiths Fivana and Nomfundu Daisy Dodo.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I would like you to take an oath.  Sakhile, please stand up.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Griffiths, please stand up.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  Thank you, we welcome you and we'll give this opportunity to Ms Maya who will ask you questions.  Thank you.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Sakhile, let me start with you.  In August 1985, you were shot.  You say you were playing with children of your age group and you got shot by soldiers.  How old were you at this time?

UNKNOWN: I think I was 15 years old if I still remember very well.

MS MAYA: What happened when the soldiers shot you?

UNKNOWN: We were playing and the soldiers came and shot us.  Our mistake is that we ran away.  My friends were running away and I told them not to, but they ran away and they left me there alone.
 While I was there alone, I asked myself why am I not running and then I ran and that was the mistake I did.
 I went to the next door house, my next door house and I am not sure about the first bullet, but what I remember is DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
2 S MACWASHE
that people were crying and they saw blood.  They were saying blood, blood.
 And I fell down while I was trying to stand up, I could feel another bullet passing through my stomach and I slept down there and these boers came.  They came next to me, they dug a hole and they wanted to put me in that hole.

MS MAYA: Who was digging this hole and where?

UNKNOWN: It was in Msimango in 1986.

MS MAYA: Who was digging the hole?

UNKNOWN: Can you please repeat?

MS MAYA: Who was digging the hole Sakhile?

UNKNOWN: It was these boers.

MS MAYA: Where in Msimango?

UNKNOWN: Next to the four roomed houses.

MS MAYA: Were there houses where they were digging this hole?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: Who took you from the place you fell?

UNKNOWN: These boers came and they took me because people were crying and they took me with their car to hospital.

MS MAYA: The soldiers took you to hospital?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: How much were you injured?

UNKNOWN: In my legs and my shoulders.  In my forehead.

MS MAYA: Were these bullets taken out at the hospital?

UNKNOWN: Yes, in my leg.

MS MAYA: Do you still have any other bullets in your body?

UNKNOWN: I'm not sure, I can't say for sure.

MS MAYA: How long did you stay in the hospital?

UNKNOWN: I stayed for a long time there.
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
3 S MACWASHE

MS MAYA: Can you please estimate how many weeks or months?

UNKNOWN: It was months, but I'm not sure how many.

MS MAYA: At this time you said you were 15 years old.  Were you at school?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: Which standard were you?

UNKNOWN: I was in standard 3.

MS MAYA: Did you go back to school after you were shot?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did.

MS MAYA: Did you continue with your education?

UNKNOWN: Yes, but I dropped out at standard 5.

MS MAYA: When you were dropping out at school, does that have anything to do (tape ends)  Do you still feel that you have to see Doctors?

UNKNOWN: Yes, my head is not right, but I'm not going to any Doctors.

MS MAYA: What do you feel in your head?

UNKNOWN: My head is not, my memory is not good.

MS MAYA: But do you go to any Doctors?

UNKNOWN: No, I don't go to any Doctor.

MS MAYA: Do you have a reason for that, for not going to Doctors?

UNKNOWN: No, there is no reason for that.

MS MAYA: Do you need any help so that you can go back to a Doctor?  Do you want to be helped so that you can go back to the Doctor?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: After you were discharged from the hospital, what happened to you?

UNKNOWN: After I was discharged from the hospital, the soldiers left a notice that the nurses should phone them.
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
4 S MACWASHE

MS MAYA: Where did this soldiers leave this message?

UNKNOWN: They left the message with the nurses.

MS MAYA: Did the nurses phone the soldiers?

UNKNOWN: No, they didn't phone them, but they just told me that that was the day for me to go home.

MS MAYA: When you arrived at home, what happened?

UNKNOWN: When they told me that I have to go home, I went, I did prepare myself and then I went home.  When I was arriving at home, I slept and the next day I went to visit a friend.

MS MAYA: Can we continue Sakhile?

UNKNOWN: Yes, please continue.

MS MAYA: In your statement you said that while visiting your friend you saw a hippo going to where you were staying.  What happened after that?

UNKNOWN: When - I was scared.  I ran away and I ran into the house and they told me that the hippo doesn't want me, it was just passing.  It stopped near my house.
 The soldiers wanted to see me and someone called me.  I responded.

MS MAYA: Who was calling you?

UNKNOWN: The owner of the house called me.  I went to the soldiers and they asked who I was.  Before I answered them, I asked them a question "what was the problem?"
 While we were still arguing, I told them my name.

MS MAYA: What did they do to you after you told them who you were?

UNKNOWN: They said they are taking me with their hippo.

MS MAYA: Did they tell you where they are taking you to?  Did they tell you why they want to go with you?
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
5 S MACWASHE

UNKNOWN: I said to them I'm not going with them, because I didn't know where I was going. They just said I must come with them and then I said to them they must tell the owner of the house where they are taking me, so that the owner can tell my father where I was, but they didn't do that.
 What they did, they tried to push me to the hippo and we struggled, because I didn't want to go with them.

MS MAYA: Did you go to the hippo with them?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did because they all struggled with me, taking me with them to the hippo.  They drove around the township and then they went with me to the C-Section, but unfortunately they were looking for a certain number, but they asked a man who just arrived at this Section.
 They also took that man and they assaulted him.  While they were doing that to that man, they wanted him to say that he is an informer to tell people that he is an informer, because at that time, if you were found to be an informer people were burning you.

MS MAYA: What happened after that?

UNKNOWN: After that they said that they - that man must go out, but he couldn't because the door was high and they kicked him out while the hippo was still moving.

MS MAYA: Do you know what happened to that man?

UNKNOWN: No.

MS MAYA: Do you know who the man was?

UNKNOWN: No, I don't.  It was the first time I met him.

MS MAYA: What happened to you after they drove around the township, where did they take you to?

UNKNOWN: They took me to Fleet Street police station
DUNCAN VILLAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
6 S MACWASHE
and they took my finger prints and then I told them that I didn't do anything, why should they take my finger prints.  That is where they started kicking me, they forced me, they forced to take my finger prints and they were assaulting me at that time.

MS MAYA: Do you remember any soldiers or policemen who were there?

UNKNOWN: No, I don't remember any.

MS MAYA: What happened in Fleet Street, how long did you stay there?

UNKNOWN: They took me to Westbank the next day.  In Fleet Street they gave me a porridge and I didn't know what was within that porridge, it looked dirty.

MS MAYA: Let us continue Sakhile.  In your statement you said that you were not charged, but you just stayed in prison for 9 months, is that so?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: What happened to you?

UNKNOWN: They released me because they said I was not charged.  They didn't find me guilty.  I went once in court and they didn't find me guilty.

MS MAYA: Did you have any lawyer?

UNKNOWN: I don't remember.