Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-06-23

CHAIRPERSON: Are you in short saying that there was a problem between Mr Blade Msimande and Mr Teaspoon Mkhize as a result of which Mr Msimande formed his own camp?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Although I cannot be absolutely certain if that was the reason Amabumvu was formed but yes, before Amabumvu was formed there was a group or there were some amongst us who had intended, who wanted to form SACP and Mr Blade Msimande refused, he said there shouldn't be two organisations in one area.  On seeing that disagreement, he used that opportunity to form Amabumvu.  He was not just alone but with Mr Phewa and Zulu Mkhize whom I did not know.

CHAIRPERSON: When did this Amabumvu formation take place?  Was this in 1993?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Although I cannot remember correctly but 1994 they were already in existence, I'm not sure when they were formed exactly.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge, when did you begin to know that you had differences with Amabumvu as an ANC organisation, you as a person.  When did you become aware of the conflict that existed between Amabumvu and members of your camp in the ANC?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: On a certain day ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, I want to know when, when in terms of the year and month.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I can say in 1994.

CHAIRPERSON: Now how soon before Mr Phewa was killed did you become aware of this difference or conflict?  Mr Phewa was killed in March 1994?

MS MOODLEY: Honourable Chair, if I may intervene?

CHAIRPERSON: Is it 1993?

MS MOODLEY: No, Topay was the deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, oh, Topay was deceased?

MS MOODLEY: Not in respect of the amnesty application but in respect of circumstances.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I mean Mpumelelo Christopher Phewa, this is  the one that I'm referring to.

MS MOODLEY: Yes 25th March.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: He was killed on the 25th March 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm only confining myself to Mr Phewa who was killed in March 1994 in respect of whose death you seek amnesty, do you understand Mr Mngomezulu?  Yes, now when did you personally become aware of this conflict that existed between your camp and the Amabumvu taking into account that Mr Phewa was killed in March 1994?  I just want to put some time frame to when you became aware of the conflict, that's all?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As I mentioned before, I am not certain as to when Amabumvu was founded.  What I can say is that towards the end of 1993, beginning of 1994, I was already aware that we had differences that is organisation and Mr Msimande's organisation.  Up until that time I was convicted or up until the time I committed this crime people lost their lives during that time.  Mr Mkhize was also attacked at his home.  My elder brother was also threatened with death.  There are many instances that I can quote.

CHAIRPERSON: When was your home attacked?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I am not sure when Mr Mkhize's house was attacked but it was before the death of ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Phewa died in March 1994 which is early 1994.  Was your home attacked in the same year or the year before?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I did not say that it was my home that was attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: When did your father die?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: In 1993.

ADV DE JAGER: Ja but when in 1993?  October, December, Christmas, January, New Year's day or what

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Because of the situation then I do not recall the month.  I was not present when he died but it was early 1993, it could be April.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it not your evidence that you left Wembesi for some time and when you returned, which was after your father's death, you came back to a very different Wembesi which was now divided into different camps.  That's the evidence that's before us?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes I did leave Wembesi and returned after my father's death.

CHAIRPERSON: Your evidence as contained in Exhibit A refers to the area having been divided into IFP and the ANC.  Now were they different divisions, were they divisions of the IFP and the ANC as well as divisions of the ANC and the Amabumvu?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As you mentioned, I returned and there was by then the IFP and ANC existing in the area and later on there was Amabumvu as well as the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Now can you just explain to us briefly what the objectives to your understanding of the Amabumvu were, what political objectives did they pursue?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Although I cannot be certain of their intentions in the township I think that as I mentioned before some people did attempt to form a SACP branch and Mr Msimande refused.  The problem that was then existing was that I thought that the person who wanted to be the leader was Mr Phewa because they were by the time not on good terms with Mr Mkhize because of Blade Msimande.  I cannot really say what they wanted from him because I was not close to them, I was not in their camp.  I knew that whenever or wherever we meet them, there was nothing else that we would do except kill one another.

CHAIRPERSON: Why were you fighting, maybe I should put it in that fashion.  Why were you fighting with the SACP?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: They started the attack on Mr Mkhize's home where there was a meeting held.  They are the ones who also demarcated the area, they attacked Melusi at Mkhize's home, they decided that people who stayed in Five Row section are Amabumvu and those who resided at Mr Mkhize's side were ANC and they used to label as Amagola, which is robbers but I do not know, I cannot tell this Commission just what this problem was but I trusted Mr Mkhize and trusted that he was going to help the township develop and I could just not let him down and leave him in the hands of such people.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge did they ever try and recruit members of your particular section to become SACP?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I would have no knowledge in that regard.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MOODLEY

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: Maybe one question Madame Chair, I think the Committee has asked all the questions that I had prepared.
	Mr Mngomezulu, would you say your political objectives as the ANC of Mr Mkhize were the same as the political objectives of the Amabumvu?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I do not believe so because Mr Mkhize had never once instructed us to kill people but they were capable of killing our people.
NO FURTHER QUESTION BY MS THABETHE

ADV DE JAGER: Did they in fact kill any of your people?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes they did.

ADV DE JAGER: Who killed?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Do you mean the killers or people who were killed?  I did not get that question?

ADV DE JAGER: You knew the Amabumvu people.  Did they kill any ANC people?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes there were that they killed.

ADV DE JAGER: Who was killed?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I remember Thulani Mbaso, Mr Gerry Zuma who was a school principal, there were various incidents, we were also attacked in a house but nobody was killed.  Moosa was even killed as well.  They killed a lot of people even when I was arrested, in prison, they continued with that campaign of killing people.

ADV DE JAGER: That was even after the election?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: What I know is that Musanglovu was killed after I was incarcerated, I'm not sure whether it was before or after the elections.

ADV DE JAGER: Well you killed this man Phewa a month before the elections, a month and four days before the elections?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: That is correct, just before the election.

ADV DE JAGER: At that time the ANC and the SACP were campaigning as one political organisation?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes they were allies but not in my area, that did not exist there and at that time I had already been arrested.