Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

MS VAN DER WALT: This trailer, can you just elaborate on that.  You said that he said that he will personally go to Terreblanche and tell him.  Of who were you talking when you say he, himself?

MR SMIT: I am speaking about Nico Prinsloo.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did Nico Prinsloo tell this to Barnard?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: That he will use the AWB's trailer?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was there any other discussions concerning the trailer?

MR SMIT: No, they said that the registration plate will be removed.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know that Sunday morning a bomb exploded in Bree Street?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know who planted the bomb there?

MR SMIT: Yes, at that stage.

MS VAN DER WALT: At what stage, after the bomb exploded?

MR SMIT: Yes, after it exploded.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who told you this?

MR SMIT: It was a closed group of us who stood there and amongst others Jan de Wet, whose vehicle was used in this trailer bomb.

MS VAN DER WALT: I am talking about the Bree Street bomb in Johannesburg?

MR SMIT: I am sorry, I am confused now.

MS VAN DER WALT: I am talking about the Bree Street bomb in Johannesburg, did you know who planted the bomb there?

MR SMIT: No.

MS VAN DER WALT: After this discussion took place, what happened to Cliff Barnard?

MR SMIT: He and Koper Myburgh and Koekemoer ...

MR MALAN: Just before you continue, I am confused now.  I understand that you said that the discussion was about the pipe-bombs and the trailer bomb.  If I heard you correctly you gave evidence in the line of that the pipe-bombs were built at Koesterfontein?

MR SMIT: Yes, all the bombs were built at Koesterfontein.

MR MALAN: Is it true that the pipe-bombs were built there or did it come from another place?  Other evidence was led that it came from another place?

MR SMIT: The final product was at Koesterfontein.

MR MALAN: Did you see this yourself?

MR SMIT: No.

MR MALAN: Why are you so sure about this, that is what I would like to know?

MR SMIT: Well, Koper Myburgh, Cliff Barnard and this Koekemoer, they lived at Koesterfontein during that period when we were at the game farm.  They brought all the stuff from there to the game farm.

MR MALAN: But Mr Smit, you were at that meeting that evening and the first time bombs were discussed then in your presence?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct, and that is when they brought the bombs there.

MR MALAN: No, but you are talking now about them being at Koesterfontein.  What knowledge did you have about that?

MR SMIT: That is what they told us.

MR MALAN: So they told you that they built the bombs at Koesterfontein?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Did they arrive there at the meeting with the bombs?

MR SMIT: No, not with the bombs, no not at the meeting, but after the meeting took place, the people left the hall, all the people.  They gathered on the verandah of the hall where the workings of the bombs were explained to them.

MR MALAN: You said that you had regular contact, I think you talked about driving to and fro from Ventersdorp and the farm and you had contact with Mr Terreblanche and Gen Prinsloo?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MR MALAN: But with all this driving to and fro, when you heard about the bombs that were built and which would be used, and when they talked about the trailer, then he said he will have to go and tell Terreblanche that they will use the trailer.

MR SMIT: Well, I do not know if Terreblanche's trailer was taken without his permission.

MR MALAN: But you knew that he was in contact with him?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MR MALAN: And you did not ask him then, you did not ask him why did you build a bomb in Terreblanche's trailer without talking to him while you go there every single day?

MR SMIT: Nico Prinsloo never built bombs.

MR MALAN: Mr Smit, the evidence that you gave here, is that within your knowledge and memory?  It is really difficult to follow you on this?

MR SMIT: I can just testify about things that were told to me, other things I cannot testify about.

MR MALAN: That is my problem.  You testify about things that were said to you, but that does not make sense within the framework of your evidence.
	Are you sure that it was then said to you?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: I find it very difficult to follow you.

MS VAN DER WALT: Can I just get clarity for you.  The person who was in contact with Headquarters, who was this?

MR SMIT: That was Nico Prinsloo.

CHAIRPERSON: During that meeting where this trailer was discussed, who had to go and tell Terreblanche that his trailer will be used for a bomb?

MR SMIT: Nico Prinsloo would go back to tell Terreblanche that Cliff Barnard took his trailer to plant a bomb.

CHAIRPERSON: According to what you understood there, it was that Prinsloo knew that Barnard took this trailer?

MR SMIT: That is correct because Barnard in this meeting said I went to get the "Oubaas's" trailer.

MS VAN DER WALT: So he did not carry any knowledge of that before that incident?

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

MS VAN DER WALT: You said that the people were gathered outside and there was a demonstration held, is that correct?

MR SMIT: Yes.  I was not present there throughout the whole demonstration, I was in charge of the guards and I had other tasks.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who presented the demonstration?

MR SMIT: It was Koper Myburgh.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did this entail, this demonstration?

MR SMIT: What I could hear and see was how long it would burn, how it is ignited and that is basically that.

MS VAN DER WALT: In other words, it is the workings of this pipe-bomb?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you said that the missions then went out?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: That was the Monday just before the elections?  That is the evidence that is in front of the Committee?

MR SMIT: That is true.

MS VAN DER WALT: You then moved from the game farm to another destination?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Where did you go?

MR SMIT: We went to the shooting range just outside of Rustenburg.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was there any other discussions held at this shooting range outside of Rustenburg with regard to any explosions?

MR SMIT: There were quite a few meetings, discussions about people who wanted to go back to their families, to go and greet them, and as well as the planning of which I was not part of, of the Johannesburg, Jan Smuts bombing.

MS VAN DER WALT: You said that the people went home to go and greet people, what do you mean?

MR SMIT: Initially people thought that this would be a very short thing, but after all these explosions and bombings Gen Ackerman amongst others said at the game farm, that the bombs were looking good, we are on full steam, we continue and this would be a long term thing.

CHAIRPERSON: This was the beginning of this was?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have hopes that you would win this war?

MR SMIT: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: With how many people in the military wing?

MR SMIT: What military wing?

CHAIRPERSON: Those who would help the AWB to win this war?

MR SMIT: At that stage there were 1 200 people at Koster as I testified earlier on.  Countrywide people were gathered, I cannot say that there were 20 000 or 50 000 people, I cannot say.

CHAIRPERSON: Would it only be AWB members who would be part of this war?

MR SMIT: No Sir, as I testified earlier on the Defence Force, Police, Commando's they would provide us with vehicles and men.

CHAIRPERSON: The contact in the vehicles was Gen Viljoen?

MR SMIT: I don't know who the contact was.  I cannot say.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you know then that the military people of South Africa would assist the AWB?

MR SMIT: Like you saw on the video, they gave us numbers and before the election they said that so many Policemen and so many Defence Force men will support us, and we went on that information.