Special Hearings — Conscription Hearings — 1997-07-23

MR C SEBE: Hello, my name is Chimano Sebe. I've beenlistening to all these stories and it's not the first time butit's my first time coming to a place like this, the TRC.  I normallylisten on the radio but I've been here to-day.  I've been reallystricken by some of the stories which were told and what peoplehave been experiencing, and which,  I as a citizen who has actuallybeen fought against without knowing about it and how they didit, but the people themselves who have been doing those thingsare revealing their stories to-day, and I'm an actor myself andI believe that a drama is also one of the very good ways of healingpeople.   I know it from myself because I also like to learn theskills of drama to know who I am first before I could really understandthe tool I'm going to use in order to face the public.   And Ifound for instance that the guy who was sitting there John, Iwas actually happy that someone like him came and stood here andsaid what he said and what he did which is very painful and whichis not very easy to say.  What I actually want to say is becauseof the solutions you are trying to find is that we have to actuallytry to rehabilitate our society.  Our society is a society whichhas been affected in many ways and some of the ways are not actuallyphysical or some of the ways were not maybe directly made by theguns or the police or whatever, some of them were just politicalthings which people, they ate them and they were breast fed themand they stayed with them in the blood and this is actually whatwe see to-day in South Africa, that the society of South Africais a very violent society.  I would say that we are very mentallydisturbed people.
 I myself may be speaking as if I'm a normal person but I findmyself not normal when it comes to other things because I alsoleft the country and I was not a member of any organisation althoughI supported any organisation that fought for the liberation ofany people.   Not particularly South Africa but it could be inthe whole world and this I felt and decided to leave the country. I left the country because I wanted to further my acting careerbecause in the country it wasn't possible.  In the country beingBlack I could only be a Black actor in Soweto and work with Blackactors in the township which was just too limited for me I foundit incomplete because the world is not Black, and of course inour plays that we did we were sometimes like political plays whichwere actually violent.  They call them protest plays.  I wouldn'tsay they were protest plays, I would say they were plays wereactually talking about our lives.
 Aand I think in the country to-day we need to use as much aspossible things that can educate the people freely, not that theyhave to pay for it, they don't have to pay for it.  Actually thisSouth Africa should be a place whereby we should know these thingsthat have been happening all the time and people should be educatedlike the man that said the church was used in order to sanctionwhat the State was actually perpetrating.  The churches shouldalso be used to again not maybe necessarily to make people goto heaven because we are living on earth I mean our lifestyleon earth and not in heaven.  We should concentrate on these thingsthat are wrong here on earth first and help people to get outof these problems.  
 For instance as an actor to-day I have a feeling that the dramasystem, the acting system in South Africa is going down the drainand I find it very sad that it really goes down the drain whenit is so necessary, that it should be picked up again and be usedthe same way as it was used in order to protest, in order to informpeople about the struggle of South Africa.  When it goes downI get sad and I don't understand why the Government can't supportit so that it can again speak up in order to help people.  I believetheatre is like a church for me.  I believe the theatre is veryeffective in order to make people change themselves.  I don'tknow whether they would change themselves but I think it's thebest way to inform people like it did in order to inform peopleof foreign countries European countries, plays like Egoli, playslike Sarafina, plays like Survivor, plays like Wosa Aved(?) andso on and so on and people got informed outside and I think it'stime again that those things should be supported by the Government. I speak like this because I feel that the Government is neglectingdrama.

WENDY ORR: I want to say thank you for coming here to listento the stories of people who I'm sure you have viewed in the pastas your enemies, and I hope that perhaps your perspective on thoseenemies has changed a little bit through what you have heard.
 I also believe that drama and creative ways of addressing issuedhave a tremendous role to play and unfortunately the TRC has nomandate with the Department of Arts and Culture but perhaps thereare ways in which together we can come up with ideas in  whichdrama is used to help people learn about PTSD in the same wayas it has been used successfully and less successfully by theDepartment of Health in informing people about various illnesses.

REV DU PLOOY: I would just like to support Chimano inthat as well because what we are doing now is using drama forthings like affirmative action and  for change management andit's working very well.  But Chimano it's not something that werely on the Government for, it's a more specific thing and it'susually funded by the specific instance where it's needed andthat is something that is now proving successful.  We've beenat it for about two years and it is beginning to become somethingvery worth looking at and perhaps in this issue it can also beused like that.

WENDY ORR: We have time for two more comments from the floor,one from the gentleman who's already nominated himself and thentwo more, one at the back and one at the front and then we'llclose.

MR J CASTELLO: My name is James Castello I have two thingsto say.  First of all I also left the country to pursue strangeenough an acting career, and I realised upon frequent visits toso-called developed countries that something in me needed to comeback, kept needing to come back and eventually gravitating towardsCape Town I have now basically come to the point of saying thatperhaps it's time if this makes it onto TV that people shouldstop leaving and should actually start coming back because thereis so much to do here, whether it's through drama or whether it'sthrough support, whether it's through caring for people or justactually being part of the whole process.
 This leads me to the second thing I have to say was up untilthis point I thought the Commission was a wonderful waste of moneyand a fabulous waste of time until I walked in here this morningI had absolutely no idea of actually what went on.  I've had friendsfrom overseas who have been studying the TRC ,specifically fromHolland and from the States and I knew there was a programme onevery Sunday but I haven't watched it you know that peculiar SouthAfrican, yes well it's happening but lets not pay too much attentionbecause then we might get caught up, but I think if anybody iswatching us or listening to it, get people to watch it to experiencewhat's going on.
 And also I want to say that my heart goes out to all of you forwhat you must be going through repeatedly every single day.  Itmust be incredibly emotionally draining and very spiritually downliftingbut also a period of growth and I'd just like to say that I willbe praying for you and I think you're doing a really wonderfuljob.

WENDY ORR: Thank you very much. I am sure the Minister ofFinance will be pleased to hear that he's not wasting his money. Ian and then Tim at the back.