Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-05

UNKNOWN: Yes thank you, Chairperson.  We're going to hear argument, Chairperson, it's been set down for the 18th and the 19th of November.  Unfortunately it's a Saturday and a Sunday, Chairperson, but we couldn't get - we're all be available on those days Chairperson, everybody's diaries are pretty booked up.
	And then Chairperson, just for applicants to file by the 6th of November and objections by the 15th of November, Chairperson.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Will it be in Cape Town?  A venue to be arranged and everyone will get due notification of that venue?

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Chairperson.  At this point we have a strong feeling that it's going to be at the TRC offices, Chairperson, which could accommodate a few of us.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman firstly, may I express our gratitude to you and Members of the Committee, even though I understand that you were not specifically consulted on sitting during the weekend in order to primarily accommodate our own available, Mr Chairman, we are really most grateful for that.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: There is just one other matter, Mr Chairman.  I don't know that we can get any agreement before the adjournment, could we ask you Mr Chairman, from ...(indistinct) in consultation with Members of the Committee, to indicate where you intend marking where the vehicle was.  If anybody has got any objection, they can voice it.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the vehicle at the time it was stationary and before it was reversed a little distance.  That one?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: It's almost - if one takes a look at P2, there seems to be, I don't know if it's a vehicle parked in that photograph.

MR LAX: There's a white rectangular object on the road, on the left of the road.

CHAIRPERSON: Approximately there.  That's before it was reversed back.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, we would agree with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Martini, do you see that?  P2, that's the ...  It might have been slightly closer to the wall, but more-or-less there.

MR MARTINI: Chairperson, I just can't orientate myself to the inspection, I can't even ...  I can see the mark there, but I can't even recall ...

MR LAX: Can you see in the car park there's a red rood or something, that wasn't there at the time, we were told that at the inspection in loco.  That is at the back of the building and you can see the circle of the road coming round forms a D-shape, can you see that?

MR MARTINI: Yes.

MR LAX: Now that is the circle within which Mr van Zyl indicated they'd parked the vehicle.

MR MARTINI: My only problem is I can't visualise that circle in that direction, I recall ...(indistinct - no microphone)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone.

MR MARTINI: I recall we looked away from the Early Learning Centre, from the parking lot and I just can't place this circle.  I'm not trying to be ...

CHAIRPERSON: It's a very big circle, it's not a roundabout circle, it's a big circle and there's a main road behind it.  You can see the main road there.

MR LAX: Can you see - just listen, can you see Abduramen Avenue, that mark there?

MR MARTINI: ;   Mr Lax, sorry, you keep telling me "just listen", I'm saying I accept where that little mark is.

MR LAX: Thank you.

GEORGE BIZOS: Could we agree on the next letter of the alphabet that's got to go through.

CHAIRPERSON: G.  Make that G.

MR MARTINI: You see Chairperson, that's the point I complained of earlier, which Mr Lax wouldn't let me explain to the Chair.  We don't have a diagram, A, B, C, D, E, F, G on it.  Now you've marked G, but none of us know - well, I certainly don't know what A is, B, C, or D.

CHAIRPERSON: That must be done and here's the original which is not the same as P2, but we can get them from here.

GEORGE BIZOS: We will give Mr Martini our copies.

MR MARTINI: May I suggest Chairperson, next time we come and argue, that we have a uniform one, the one that the Chair has, because Mr Kahanovitz says "copy mine", I assume it's the same as the Chair's.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes but I think it's probably better to do it now before you prepare your arguments.  I think when we adjourn, Mr Martini, I'll give you these and you can do it from there.

MR MARTINI: Shall we copy it from the Chair's one?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MARTINI: Thanks, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes well thank you very much, that then concludes the evidence in this matter and as you heard, we'll next be meeting on the 18th of November at a venue still to be finalised, for argument, final argument after the presentation of written Heads.  But tomorrow we'll be proceeding with another matter at this venue.  What time will we be starting tomorrow, Ms Coleridge?  Half-past nine?

UNKNOWN: If we could start at nine-thirty, Chairperson.
HEARING ADJOURNS