Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-07

DR RANDERA: I just want to come back to where you started 
your statement, I mean maybe the dates are right, maybe the 
dates are wrong, you say on the 3rd of September you had a 
meeting in Zone 13 with, or three weeks, sorry my apologies, 
three weeks prior to the 3rd of September you had a meeting 
with the people of Zone 13 ...(intervention)

MR NTSOERENG: That's correct.

DR RANDERA: It sounded like it was quite a reasonable 
meeting and then three weeks later you say on the 3rd of 
September I heard over the radio that some of our 
councillors have been killed.

MR NTSOERENG: Yes.

DR RANDERA: What happened in this period?  On the one side 
you seem to have had quite a reasonable discussion with the 
people of Zone 13 and three weeks later it seemed like the 
township was burning, what happened inbetween?  Who was 
responsible?  Who were the other organisations that were 
working in the area?

MR NTSOERENG: Which area are you referring to Sir?

DR RANDERA: I am talking about your area, Sebokeng.

MR NTSOERENG: I want to point out that there were many 
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organisations.  UDF was present and they also held their 
meetings and we used to hold our meetings as well.  Now the 
meeting we held three weeks before we were about to report 
to the community that we will not meet their demands if they 
don't agree to the fact that the rent has to be increased by 
R5,00.  In that same meeting, it was a great meeting, a big 
meeting because we had the drum majorette, there was a 
beautiful day, we were explaining to the community this 
issue of increment.

DR RANDERA: Mr Ntsoereng I just want to come back to this 
issuing of guns to the councillors, who gave out the guns?  
Was it the administration or the police who gave out the 
guns and were people trained to use those guns?

MR NTSOERENG: I want to talk about the training, I don't 
know whether they were trained to use the guns, but what I 
can explain is that those guns were the adminstration bought 
guns.  That is the fact I know.

DR RANDERA: My last question Mr Ntsoereng.  You say in 
your statement,
 "These people who destroyed my house they also 
destroyed me morally.  I put the blame to the 
regime, that is apartheid".
Now I want you please to just tell us what you mean by that, 
but also in doing so can you please tell us in your memory 
how many councillors actually lost their lives during this 
period?

MR NTSOERENG: Nobody in those years wanted oppression.  
Myself as a councillor I didn't like oppression but the 
regime put us in trouble.  I have already explained that 
investigations should be conducted because the Black people 
were used by the Government.  The community of the Vaal 
HRV/1046 Triangle/...
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Triangle was living on conditions of bridging finance.  They 
used to meet their target and they could also meet their 
target at Wittsieshoek.  I have already indicated that the 
irrigation system in that area was supported through the 
funds of our region.  And the community lost temper and 
patience. That is why I say the regime is responsible.  I 
know the deceased Mr Kuzwayo Dhlamini who was killed.  Mr 
Siza Mucheane.  Jacob Chakane and two months thereafter Zipo 
Dhlamini was killed in Everton.

DR RANDERA: So that is four people that you know who were 
killed during that time who were councillors.

MR NTSOERENG: But the people who died in that violent era 
were many, not only the councillors, but many people died.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ntsoereng on behalf of the TRC I would 
like to thank you so much that you came.  Thank you that you 
brought your daughter with you today and introduced her to 
us.  We really want to say to you that the Truth Commission 
has many tasks.  One of the tasks is to try and find out the 
truth of what's happened in South Africa and the information 
you gave us will help us piece together the true story of 
everything that happened in the Vaal Triangle in those 
difficult years.  Thank you for helping us with that.  And 
we also want to say to you that we do have sympathy with 
you, with the dilemma you were in.  You told us about the 
difficulty of being a councillor in those years, as you said 
you were chased by your own people, on the other hand you 
were harassed by the regime, by the administration and we 
know that the councillors also suffered and that their 
families suffered with them.  Thank you that you told us 
that and we do hope that partly because of your story today 
HRV/1046 that/...
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that you and your family and many other councillors and 
their families will be well accepted back into the 
community.  And as for your request that there's 
investigation needed about the monies, the way the monies 
were used we will take that along and we'll present your 
request to the TRC.  But thank you for coming, and thank you 
for bringing your daughter.  You may leave and you may take 
your place again in the audience.