Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Yes, in broad outline, Mr Chairman,  we have done that.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  Well, we will leave it at that, because I do not regard that as a question.

UNKNOWN: If he wants to comment on it, Mr Chairman.  I did not want to take anyone by surprise.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, anyway.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: These are the submissions that are going to be made and you are afforded an opportunity, if you wish, to comment on them.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I just want to say that I have already commented on the first two, Mr Chairman, and my comment applies similarly, equally to the other two.  It is nonsense.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Finally, that you have failed to bring yourself within Section 22 and 3 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act number 34 of 1955.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Sorry, Mr Chairman, would I, I was under the impression Mr Bizos had ended.  Would you please repeat that ...

UNKNOWN: I am just making a legal submission.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I just want the section's numbers please, Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Yes, 20, sub-section two and three of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation.  Mr Chairman, that is all I want to put to this witness at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: I may indicate, Mr Chairman, that information is being filtered through to us as a result of these proceedings and as it looks as if we will not be finishing it this session, I will ask for leave in order to put further specific allegations to the witness once the information in confirmed, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Which may or may not happen?

UNKNOWN: Which may or may not happen.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, are there questions you wish to put to this witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I am not in a position to put questions at this stage, Mr Chairman.  I had questions and some of them may have been covered by Advocate Bizos, but I will need time to check whether what I am going to ask has already been covered by him.  So much has been said, I cannot commence right now.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is most unlikely that anything has been left for anybody else to ask.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I want to believe that he may have done everything, but I want to satisfy myself.

CHAIRPERSON: He may have asked more than he ought to have as well.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Sorry, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: He may have asked more than he ought to have.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes, Mr Chairman, he may have done so.

CHAIRPERSON: That is not intended to be a criticism of you, Mr Bizos.  It is just a compliment to your enthusiasm.

UNKNOWN: I am not embarrassed by your statement, Mr Chairman.  I, you have given me a patient hearing for which I want to thank you and the members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs van der Walt, are there any questions you wish to put?

MS VAN DER WALT: There are no questions.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Prinsloo, do you wish to re-examine your witness?

MR PRINSLOO: I would like to re-examine the witness, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do.

MR PRINSLOO: Am I to understand that Mr Mpshe is not going to cross-examine the witness?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, it is not likely.

MR PRINSLOO: Not likely?

CHAIRPERSON: Not likely.

MR PRINSLOO: I think to cross-examine then, obviously, I...

CHAIRPERSON: If he cross-examines I will give you another chance arising out of whatever happens.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, at this stage, may I ask the Committee's indulgence for me to go through all these questions, there is a number, but at the end it may only be a few questions that I will have to put to the witness.  It will save time if the Committee will grant me that indulgence.  Also, to clear up the documents that Mr Bizos put to the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: There has undoubtedly been extensive questioning of Mr Derby-Lewis, there has undoubtedly been reference to a large number of documents and I am satisfied that you are entitled to some time to consider the position before you re-examine your witness.  I am going to afford you the opportunity to consider your position before you re-examine Mr Derby-Lewis.  Mr Bizos ...(intervention)

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos, I am now going to adjourn today's proceedings until 09:30 tomorrow morning.

MR PRINSLOO: I am indebted to you.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee will now adjourn until 09:30 tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS