Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-25

THOMAS MANTHATA: You say the people who were speaking spoke in Afrikaans and you could identify that it was Terre'Blanche.  Were you used to his voice?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes, I know him, I was born in Ventersdorp, I know his voice.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If you say you know his voice, have you been to his meetings?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: No, I have never been to their meetings where he addresses his people.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But now tell me, how did it come about that you knew his voice?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: During holidays I was working temporarily at a filling station at Ventersdorp and he used to frequent that garage to fill his car with petrol.   We would talk, we would chat as I was on duty.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Were they attacking only your shack or were they attacking all the shacks in the area?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: They were supposed to attack all the shacks marked with, because as they were standing next to the yard, he was telling them hit only shacks marked with an X.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What was this X?  What does this X symbolise actually?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I do not know, but I think the X was an indication of an attack, because after talking about these Xs, we were attacked, but people with ordinary numbers were not attacked at all.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Those who were not attacked, what kind of people were they?  Were they not staying in shacks?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: They were also staying in shacks.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did you go to the councillors to investigate
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as to why were your shacks destroyed and others left?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: We only heard rumours that we have placed ourselves in that area, that is the reason for the attack.  Because they didn't want us to get into the township and the ANC forcibly moved us to the location and they gave us sites.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If you say they didn't allow you to stay in the township, are you referring to the councillors?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: We used to call them blockmen.  They didn't want us to reside within the township.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I want to know, were they not elected by the community or did they elect themselves?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: They were just thinking for themselves, they didn't want anything to do with the ANC, because the ANC gave us the right to stay in that township.

THOMAS MANTHATA: On the day of the court hearing, were you present when these AWB men were fined?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I was the only person who went to court.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What did you do on their arrival, or what did you say?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I enquired from the police as to what steps should be taken and they said to me the AWB men said they did not hit the shacks.  There was a card belonging to Piet Skiet Rudolph who was found ten metres from where I stay.  That is to what they feared.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You have come to the TRC because you say the people from the ANC cannot take this matter further, or is it because you did not go through in the court of law?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: We are here to seek assistance with lawyers.  We didn't go much to the ANC for investigations.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So you are here to request the TRC to get you
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a lawyer?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How many of you need a lawyer, how many families?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I can't remember the number, but the assaulted people came together and would like to get a lawyer who will represent all of us, not me alone.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You see, we do not work hand-in-hand with the courts of law.  Maybe you should tell us your needs besides the lawyer, as people who have been assaulted.

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Are you referring to our request from the Truth Commission?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I am trying to tell you that your request of a lawyer or an attorney is not within our policy.  When people go to court they do it on their own will as a private matter.  Now seeing that you didn't know beforehand that we don't work with such matters, is there a request you want to make to the TRC?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: We request the Truth Commission to help us trace them.  They should come and confess what they did.  They should come and we will forgive them.  But what remains behind, I lost my parent, because of their actions.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I am listening to your story. In other words you are telling me that if we can get hold of these people, you would be prepared to speak to them?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I don't have any more questions, Mr Phiri.

DR RADERA: Prof Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Mr Phiri, you just said that you lost your parent because of this.  Do you refer to your mother?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I am referring to my mother.
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PROF MEIRING: Can you tell us what happened to her afterwards?  Because you said that she was eventually taken to the hospital by the ANC who sent a car from Klerksdorp. But then, what happened, was she treated at the hospital and return home or did she die in hospital?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: She went to the hospital for treatment.  She spent two weeks at the hospital in Klerksdorp.  She was a person who cooked for us at home, who did everything for us.  She is still alive, but she cannot work, because she is now crippled.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  So you lost her in the sense that she is crippled, that she cannot work any more.

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: That's correct.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  There is another thing I wanted to ask.  You say that when the people entered your house they not only created havoc, but they took the music system and the television.  Was that eventually returned to you or did you lose that?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: They have been gone forever, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  Then another thing I wanted to ask, is that you mentioned the names of Mr Eugene Terre'Blanche and Mr Piet Skiet Rudolph.  Are you very positive that they were there on the scene?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: I am certain they were there.

PROF MEIRING: At the end of your testimony you tell of the incident when the police caught the perpetrators and eventually they were bailed out for R50,00 each.  Were these two gentlemen among the people who were bailed out?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Are you referring to Eugene Terre'Blanche, Sir?

PROF MEIRING: That's right.

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes, they were among the people.
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PROF MEIRING: Also Mr Rudolph.

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  And then a last question I would like to ask of you, is you say that Mr Terre'Blanche claimed that some of the people of the shacks broke into their houses.  Was that the reason they gave for the attack on the shacks, that the people from the shacks, that they broke into the houses of the local community or how do we understand that?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: There is a place called Goedgevonden towards Rustenberg direction.  They were actually planning to attack the people at that area. We were just innocent.

PROF MEIRING: They gave no reason why your community was attacked?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: We were just attacked for nothing. There was no reason given for the attack.  What the police told us, was that we have put ourselves in that area, illegally.

PROF MEIRING: I have no more questions.

DR RADERA: Thank you, Prof Meiring.  Mr Phiri, I just want to understand this clearly, I am sure everybody wants to understand it.  You were saying that it is a piece of land that was there, that was empty.  Some people were given permission to put their homes up, others were not given permission. Is that right?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: Yes, that's correct.

DR RADERA: And the ones who were not given permission, their houses were marked with an X?

SIMON RABESI PHIRI: That's correct.