Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

WITNESS:   I have four children.  Two of them are my sisters, my daughters.  The fifth one was this son whom we're going to talk about among these four daughters.  I have no husband.

CHAIRPERSON: How old are your daughters?  Are they still in school or what?

WITNESS:   Three of them are married.  The last one and my daughters they are still at school.  And another one is my daughter's who is at school.

CHAIRPERSON: So another one is your grandchild?

WITNESS:   Yes, two of them.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Do you still live at 6 Erasmus Street, Rheerderspark?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: And that is where you were born?

WITNESS:   No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were you born?

WITNESS:   I was born in Lesotho.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, born in Lesotho.  Can you tell us about what happened on the 29th of May 1990?  Just give us a story about what happened.  I'm going to help you through.

WITNESS:   On that day it was around 7 o'clock in the evening when a commotion started.  It was the last day.  We heard many shots.  We thought maybe the syndication or in the bedrooms.  It was that time when my son was outside but inside the yard.  We were unable to go and look where he is.  These gunshots, we heard them many times and the time when we looked through the window the police were lighting us with the big torch and they were asking what were we looking for and the police were just near the house.  We closed that window and the whole  night we were standing an nobody was able to sleep.  Tomorrow morning we started to look for our son.  We went to the hospitals, we went to the police stations.  We phoned Bloemfontein.  In Bloemfontein they told us that there is a person here whom we should look at 4 o'clock.  We went there at 4 o'clock.  When we arrived there we found him there.  He was helpless.  When we looked at the bullets in the kitchen door that was a time when I thought of going out, at that time I heard some sound then I closed the door again.  That's the way we lost him.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your son a member of any political organisation?

WITNESS:   He was a member of the ANC, Sir.  They buried him well.

CHAIRPERSON: What about your other members of your family, including yourself, did you belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: What political organisation was that?

WITNESS:   The ANC, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you say that - where was your son coming from when he was shot dead?

WITNESS:   He was from the house.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you said that your son attended the ANC meeting.  We it after the meeting that this happened?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.  It was after the meeting around 7 o'clock at night.

CHAIRPERSON: With whom was he travelling when he came back from the meeting?

WITNESS:   He was with his friends.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you remember their names?

WITNESS:   I don't remember them well because he had so many friends and now they are old.  I cannot remember them well. You say they're now dead, is that true?   ---   No, they are still alive.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  But you know some.  Can you identify two?

WITNESS:   There are those I know, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Who are those, do you remember?

WITNESS:   I don't remember their names but I know their faces, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where they live?

WITNESS:   I only know one among them where he stays.

CHAIRPERSON: Then we could get the information if we wanted it.  And you say that your son was shot inside what you call your yard.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   That's true, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it common that there were these shootings which were happening in your vicinity or in your area?  Was it a common thing that there were these shootings?

WITNESS:   It was not usual.  The police were shooting at that time but it was not usual.  It was the police who were shooting on that day.  They were shooting at random and these children were running in different directions and the police kept on shooting.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these the South African police or were they other police?  What kind of police were these?

WITNESS:   They were South African police and they were white.

CHAIRPERSON: They were South African police and they were white.  You don't know from which station they came from?

WITNESS:  I was imagining that they were from Tabong police station.

CHAIRPERSON: Tabong police station.  Thank you.  Is it true and that when you found the body you found that it was stripped?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Who did that?

WITNESS:   I presume those people responsible were the police.  They took him with a big  car.

CHAIRPERSON: After they had stripped him what did they do with his body, do you know?

WITNESS:   I don't know but what I know is that we just got it back.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you find his body?

WITNESS:   We found the body at the hospital, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Which one?  Can you remember the name?

WITNESS:   That's the provincial hospital, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you lay a charge against the police who had killed him?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did open a case, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know any police or sergeant of commander who was in charge of the case?

WITNESS:   I don't remember because at that time the person who was responsible to lay a charge was my husband.

CHAIRPERSON: Your husband was still alive?

WITNESS:   He divorced me, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, he's still alive.  Do you know if the divorce maybe was caused by the frustration which you had as a family after the death of your son?

WITNESS:   It was long after the child has died.  It's not far but I think it's because of the problems at home and that he's not working.

CHAIRPERSON: Which police station did you open the case?

WITNESS:  I don't hear well, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: I say, in which police station did you open the case of your son's death.  You said that you reported - you laid a charge against the police.  What station was that?

WITNESS:   I said unfortunately the person who was responsible for laying a charge was my former husband.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, so you do not know.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   Yes, I don't know but he told me that the case if with

CHAIRPERSON: /Mr Mhlambi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlambi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlambi.  Do you know Mr Mhlambi yourself?

WITNESS:  Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Where does he live now?

WITNESS:   I don't know where he's staying now.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he still in the police force?

WITNESS:   He's not a policeman.  He's a lawyer, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he give you any reason why the case did not proceed - Mr Mhlambi?

WITNESS:   Since my former husband was going to his offices I didn't hear well what happened to the case.

CHAIRPERSON: Where does Mr Mhlambi practice?  Is he in Welkom?

WITNESS:   Yes, he's in Welkom, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you get a death certificate for the death of your son?

WITNESS:   Yes, I got the death certificate, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know what was written on it?  What did they say was the cause of the death on the death certificate?

WITNESS:   It seems they discuss at the back are those who caused the death.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you repeat it?  What was the cause on the certificate?

WITNESS:   I don't understand Afrikaans well but Mr Mosimane said the wounds at the back are the cause of his death.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know who many wounds were they?

WITNESS:   I don't know, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How has the death of your son affected your family - you and your family to lose a son?

WITNESS:   They were badly affected, Sir, because we have only now daughters.  They have no more their son.  We thought he would be a breadwinner in the family.

CHAIRPERSON: So you have no son now?

WITNESS:   That's true, Sir. Are you working yourself?   ---   I'm not working.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is supporting you?

WITNESS:   My children are supporting me, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: How is your health?