Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-25

DR BORAINE: The next witness that I will call is Maudlina Lutya, Ms Lutya welcome we very pleased to see you toady.

MS LUTYA: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Are you all right?

MS LUTYA: Yes I am fine.

DR BORAINE: Fine will you need the earphones, okay.  Ms Lutya can you - can you hear my voice on the earphones and can you hear the translation, not yet.  We will just wait until that is fixed please.

MS LUTYA: Not this one - I can't hear from this one.

DR BORAINE: You can't hear okay, you must get those batteries charged.  How about that, can you hear now.

MS LUTYA: Fine - it's fine.

DR BORAINE: Excellent, thank you very much we welcome you again.  Ms Lutya will you please stand for the taking of the oath.
MAUDLINA LUTYA Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: You have come to tell us a story not only about one person, but about two.  One who was killed and one who has disappeared so you have a double agony that has been with you for a long time.  Mary Burton one of our Commissioners is going to assist you to tell your very own story and I am going to hand over to her now, thank you.

MARY BURTON: Thank you, welcome Ms Lutya, thank you for coming.

MS LUTYA: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: I am glad that you have some family members with you for your support I believe one of them is your son, is that right?

MS LUTYA: Yes that's so.

MARY BURTON: And the other.

MS LUTYA: Brother.

MARY BURTON: Welcome to both of you, thank you very much for coming.  Mamma Lutya I am going to begin by reading an extract from some of the history of that time in 1976 when your brother was killed there was a Commission that looked into the events in 1976 and it reported about Wiseman Madodomzi Lutya that he had - that he was aged 22 and that he was killed by the South African Police on the 11th of August 1976 in Guguletu.
During looting and the Commission of Arson at  a store, he died of a gunshot wound in the abdomen, and the inquest that was held, found that no person was liable for his death.  Now the 11th of August was a very violent day in Guguletu and in other townships in Cape Town.  Now we'd like to hear from you what you remember about that day.

MS LUTYA: On this day of the 11th of August 1976 it was in the afternoon around 300 pm.  We saw student going up and down the streets.  We tried to ask, we were told that these students were trying to burn up the bars because they blamed the bars for the deterioration of black people.  Yes they did demolish the bars, they burnt them up.
The policemen came and they shot at the students.  Madodomzi was working in Town - working for lawyers, when he came at home he just took off his jacket and he said he just wanted to find out what was happening.  And he never came back.  We found him after three weeks and he was shot.  The bullet had gone through his ears.  And his head split and some of his brains was - were out, we found him in the Salt River mortuary.
They were just thrown on a concrete cement on the floor, there were many-many bodies there, some had open mouths, and they were covered by the green plastic.  I tried to publish it in the newspapers because I couldn't find him before and then somebody tried to call me at home and then that person told me to go and look for him at Salt River mortuary.
The person told me where he was exactly in the Salt River mortuary and we only found him after three weeks after he has been shot.  Since then my mother started to have an heart attack, and he died of the heart attack.  She died of the heart attack.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] a long time that he was missing and that you had to try and find out where he was.

MS LUTYA: He was missing, he was lost for three weeks, we couldn't find him anywhere.

MARY BURTON: Would people like to ask questions now about this part of the story?

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Thank you for - for telling us that story, I just need a little help to understand.  There was tear gassing and there was shooting and your brother was missing.  And you never knew where he was, did you - sorry please continue.

MS LUTYA: What happened was, as there was tear gassing, and these groups of children were running away trying to burn up this bars, he said to me he wanted to find out what was happening.  But now we don't know what happened to him and where he was when he got shot.  The only thing we know is that, that very same day he never came back and now we tried to find him, we tried to look for him after he didn't come back and it was very difficult for us to find him.
To the places where we went to look for him, we were just told that now they don't know him and some - in some places they would ignore us.  Then somebody called us and told us that he is dead and he is in Salt River mortuary.

DR BORAINE: [indistinct] did you report his disappearance to anybody?

MS LUTYA: We went to the police station, and some of the people in the community at large tried to help us, because we were telling everybody that we have this problem.

DR BORAINE: And no-one came to visit you from the police station or - to tell you anything?

MS LUTYA: Nobody came to us at all.

DR BORAINE: Just a last question, was there an inquest into your brother's death?

MS LUTYA: There was no inquest  such that when we wanted a death certificate, I remember the undertaker called Zuba, told us to go to the police but the police didn't give any affidavit so that we can have the death certificate for Madodomzi.

DR BORAINE: Do you have that death certificate now?

MS LUTYA: I still don't have it, we never got it, even then.  We never got Madodomzi's death certificate, Zuba the undertaker said we must go to the police but he can bury him even though there is no death certificate, but we didn't know how he was going to do that.

DR BORAINE: Would you like us to try and see if we can find out about the death certificate?

MS LUTYA: I'll be very happy.

DR BORAINE: And perhaps also to find out exactly what happened in the inquest as to how your brother died.

MS LUTYA: I would be very happy.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Ntsebeza.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Ja just a follow up question, there is a note from our research department that a post-mortem was conducted on what was called a black male, aged at 22 years, killed by SAP on 11 August 1976.  The post-mortem number was 2047/76.
Now there also was an inquest registered as inquest number 431/76 which found that no person was liable for his death.  Now this comes by way of the so-called Cilliers Commission of 1976 which described Lutya's death in the terms I have indicated.  Now the question is, from your answers, do we then conclude that all of this information and activities were never communicated to you as family by those who are in authority?

MS LUTYA: Most definitely they did that  all with themselves, they didn't tell us anything.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: We can go on.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything you would like to say mamma, is there anything you want to add.

MS LUTYA: Yes sir there is.