Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-17

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, ...[intervention]

ZAMA THUTHA: Could you please then send a representative that can help me to prison?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I just want to clear this point, so maybe I want to put it to rest.  Mr Chairman, I met the applicant whilst I was moving around making sure that everybody applied.  When I arrived he had already applied for amnesty and
he told me about his problem, that's the problem of not getting medical treatment not about laying charges and I talked to the head of the prison and thereafter I did not go there.  	I was going there whenever there was a complication from the TRC regarding their applications, nothing else.  And I knew that he was transferred to Umtata when I received further correspondence regarding this matter and it's difficult for me.  So if he wants me to pursue the question now I would have advised him to go to legal aid, I wouldn't have any problem about that, I would have taken the case.  I wouldn't have said he must go to the Attorney General.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you now advise him, after the hearing has adjourned?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Definitely Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Can you please go back to your seat now Mr Thutha.

ZAMA THUTHA: So what must I do now?

CHAIRPERSON: You must consult with your attorney after this hearing has adjourned.  Will you now go back to your seat?

ZAMA THUTHA: What if he tells me what he told me before?
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, your witness.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  Mr John Manjibani?

MR LAX: Can you hear us Mr Manjibani?
EXPLANATIONS ON USE OF CHANNELS

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Yes, I hear you.

MR LAX: What is your full name for the record?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can I read it for the record please Mr Chairman?
	The full names are: Temegane John Manjibani Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: (sworn states)

MR PRIOR: Mr Manjibani, how old are you?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: I'm 59 years old.

MR PRIOR: Is it correct that during August of 1993 you were employed by Mr Meyers on his farm in the Elliot area?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Not in the farm, I was in town.  He had a farm but he would collect me from town.  He would collect me from town when he was going to sell milk in the farms and we would go to transkei to sell milk and he would drop me in town and then he would move to his farm.

MR PRIOR: And how long - at the time of the shooting which occurred on the 27th of August, how long had you been in his employ?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: I think it was three months then.

MR PRIOR: Well tell the Committee what you remember of the day when Mr Meyers was shot and the truck, that is the Canter truck was taken from the place from the place where he was selling milk.  Tell the Committee in your own words what you remember.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: I would like to explain like this.  We went to these villages but I don't remember the names, it's when you go to Biki on your way to Adudja across the bridge.  He said to me the people around that area knew him.  I worked for him three months then ...[intervention]

MR LAX: Could you just slow down a bit, the interpreters find it quite hard if you go very fast.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: When he stopped the truck next to the road I could estimate that is was next to the gate. a distance from here to the gate.  It was next to the road.  He stopped there and the people, a lot of people came and I could see that they knew him.  They had containers with them, some had 25 litre containers and there were a lot of people there.

MR PRIOR: In the three months that you had in his employ, how many times had you been to that area or to that place which you now mentioned?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: That was the second time because we would go to Iduja, that was the second time for us to stop in that area, the area of the incident.

MR PRIOR: Can you assist us by saying or telling us what sort of, when last you were there in relation to that period, was it weeks or months or what, days?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: I don't remember clearly whether it was weeks or days.

MR PRIOR: Alright, please proceed.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: While we were stopping there as the customers were buying mild they wanted mild and then I was measuring milk, Mike was next to the other men, I was in the truck, they would give me the containers and one man would give the customers ...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Sorry, where was Mr Meyers while you were proportioning the milk?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: He was standing next, at the back of the truck.

MR PRIOR: Where was Donnie?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Donnie was in the front inside the truck on the left side of the truck, she was sitting there.

MR PRIOR: And what was her function, what was she doing?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: She was taking money from people and giving them change.

MR PRIOR: Please continue.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: After that two men came, they said that you are milking in Cowa.  I didn't take a notice of that they came there to buy milk, I thought that they were with their wives or children.  They asked sour milk and this man said there was no sour milk anymore.  After that they went to the left side.
	I was busy counting the litres, I didn't watch what anyone else was doing because I was busy concentrating on the measurements of the litres.  I head a gunshot on the front of the truck but there were a lot of people there, I didn't know what was happening, whether it was a sjambock or what.  
	I heard a sound in the front of the truck in Donnie.  Her father was there behind and her father went to the driving side, Mike.  This man went around to the left side and after doing that he went to the driving side.  Before Meyers could even open the door, this man shot at him.  I heard when he cried and I then I heard a bang or a sound and he then fell down.  
	I then ran away from the truck.  We were running away, we did not know where we were going.  I ran, I don't know where but I decided to come back because I did not know people there.  When I was coming back I could see the lorry or the truck moving.  I saw Meyers lying down.  I then decided to go to him because this had happened, the lorry or the truck  had been gone.  He just said to me: "John, I'm dying".  
	After that the customers were running.  Luckily a van, a police van came with two police and the people told about the incident and the police came to the scene, we then met with the police.

MR PRIOR: Is it correct that you went with the police van and Mr Meyers to the All Saints Hospital?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Certainly.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, I don't want to stop you but you don't need to go further than that for our purposes here today.

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Yes, Sir.

MR PRIOR: I don't particularly want to cut him short but for our purposes I don't need him to tell us about what happened at the hospital and what happened when he went to Umtata and Elliot and all that, it's a fairly long story Mr Manjibani and it doesn't have any relevance to the issue here.
	Mr Manjibani, thank you.  I just want you to maybe answer one or two question.  You say Mr Meyers tried to open the door of the vehicle when he was shot, you said he didn't even  have a chance to open the door?

TEMEGANE JOHN MANJIBANI: Yes, because he was already coming, the other man was already coming towards him pointing a gun at him.  He hit him and he fell, he hit him with a bullet and he fell and he hit him the second time.  This is when we leapt from the truck and ran away.  Is there something else Sir?

MR PRIOR: Thank you, that is the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

ADV SANDI: Are you saying when he was shot the door was closed?