Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

MS SEKHWAMA: I know because the car that he was travelling in, he was the only Black guy and I saw him when he started shooting us.

RUSSELL ALLY: So you actually saw him take the gun out and, and shoot at, at you.

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, I saw him with my eyes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you know him beforehand or did you only find out his name afterwards?

MS SEKHWAMA: I knew him.  I only knew him that day, that day of the march when I wanted to ask my sister where she was from.   When I was busy talking to my sister that Black police guy took his guy, his gun.  While I was still talking to my sister the rest of the people who were marching came to us and he started shooting and he, that's how he shot my sister.

RUSSELL ALLY: So his name, who did you learn his name from?  Did other people tell you  or did you find out afterwards?

MS SEKHWAMA: I knew his name.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now in your statement there's actually nothing about whether you followed this case up.  Did you do anything after your sister was shot, after she'd been taken to hospital?   Did you report this?   Did you go to the police?   Did you get any legal advice?  Anything?

MS SEKHWAMA: We had a lawyer at the time.  That's why I was saying that when I went to the police station to ask what were they doing about the case, they told me that the lawyer who was involved with the case was, was gone.  He was no longer there.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this lawyer, who was this lawyer?  Can you remember?

MS SEKHWAMA: I can't remember his name.  I think our Mayor knows who was the lawyer.

RUSSELL ALLY: So after you went to the police station and you asked and they told you that the lawyer was, at, was not longer involved in this case.  Was that the end of it, or did anything else happen after that?

MS EKHWAMA: They made us to write another statement and they said they'll come back to us.  We waited until to-day.  Nobody came to us, to tell us about the case.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now this, this shooting led to your sister being blinded in her one eye.  Does your sister receive any financial assistance as a result of this?

MS SEKHWAMA: She received nothing.

RUSSELL ALLY: And, and still now she receives nothing?  No grant or ...?

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now this person who you'll identify as the person who you believe shot at your sister.   Have you ever confronted this person?  Have you ever spoken to this person?

MS SEKHWAMA: I never talked to the guy.  I thought we would talk during the trial.

RUSSELL ALLY: But there was no trial.

MS SEKHWAMA: It just disappeared.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your sister presently, how does she cope?  How does she look after herself, her children?  What, what is her situation?

MS SEKHWAMA: We tried to look for, for a job and we are trying to assist her family and her children and we just buy her clothes and my father is actually supporting her and her family.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Dr Ally.  Ms Seroke?

UNKNOWN: Annikie, I want to ask about your sister Sarah.  Did she start to be mentally disturbed after the shooting or she was like that even before she got injured?

MS SEKHWAMA: She started after she was shot.

UNKNOWN: Was she okay before?

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, she was.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Annikie, how do you relate the march against VAT with a political affairs?

MS SEKHWAMA: I don't understand what you're saying.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When I understand you correctly, VAT, that's why I'm asking you, when you, when you buy things, how was it connected with politics?  How was VAT connected with politics?

MS SEKHWAMA: That is true.  Actually, when we were in a meeting they, they just told us that to-day we're going to march against VAT.  When we went to me, march for VAT, I didn't know what we were going to do but they told us about VAT.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When Doctor Ally was asking you, who were the people who organized the march, you said it was the community.

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes, that is true.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Now I'm going to ask you a question.  When the community said they talk about boycotting VAT, who was the leader of that community?

MS SEKHWAMA: There were so many people who were up front where the community were protesting against VAT.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who was the Chairperson of, of that meeting?

MS SEKHWAMA: When, you mean during the time we were marching against VAT?

THOMAS MANTHATA: No, I, I say, I mean during the time you were in the meeting, discussing about this issue of VAT and we, we had to march against to protest against it?

MS SEKHWAMA: It was Orbit Machaba.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Which member was he?  Was he a member of the A?

MSSEKHWAMA: Ja, he was a member of the ANC.

THOMAS MANTHATA: We, we are talking about 1990 here.

MS EKHWAMA: Okay, I understand now.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Now we Sarah at that time, where was she coming from?

MS EKHWAMA: No, she was coming from one of my sister where, where she lives.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You mean she was not in the march?

MS SEKHWAMA: I saw here coming and then I, I asked her where she was coming from and she said she was having a, a young baby and I was asking her whether she left the, the child behind.  She said I was coming from my sister Ouma.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You mean she was not involved in the march?

MS SEKHWAMA: No.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Do you have documents from the doctor?

M SSEKHWAMA: No, we took her to the hospital.  They didn't give us any, any document.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You said the, the lawyer is known by, by the Mayor?

MS SEKHWAMA: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And the lawyer never told you how the this harass matter went?

MS SEKHWAMA: No.

THOMAS MANTHATA: : Is the lawyer still around in Messina?

MS SEKHWAMA: No, it was a lawyer from Pietersberg.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When did you last hear about the lawyer and this Sarash's matter?

MS SEKHWAMA: I asked the May, the Mayor in January on the third and he told me I should wait a little bit.  He will start by phoning the lawyer who, who's handling Sarah's matter.  When I went the following day, he said to me, the lawyer is no longer in the ANC's matters and then I went back home.
I went back to the, the Mayor again.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You mean  Sahara's matter is going to end just like this if you don't phone this, this lawyer to ask for have pension because she has, she got children.  She has got children who are at, still at school. Let me go back to the march again.  When they, they shot, were they shooting Sarah while she was coming to you or were they shooting at people who were in the march?

MS SEKHWAMA: He shot at Sharah, Sarah while I was standing with her.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You mean he was not shooting the people who  were marching?

MS SEKHWAMA: No, he was just shooting at random.

THOMAS MANTHATA: After the march, were you able to, to know how many people were shot?

MS SEKHWAMA: No, we never asked anyone because we were very busy with Sarah at that time.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How old was Sarah's child that time?  To-day.  How old is Sarah's child?

MS SEKHWAMA: I think she's seven years old if I'm not mistaken or six.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Is she at school?

MS SEKHWAMA: Ja, she's at Sub A.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata has already asked you about the relationship between the protest against Value Added Tax, VAT and what was happening in the community.  The political conflicts.  Can you tell us what else was happening at that time in Nancefield and Messina.  Were there other marches taking place or was the march against the Value Added Tax one, just the first one?

MS SEKHWAMA: I think this was the first march.

DR RANDERA: Can I just try and remind you.  Were there no marches against, against Councillors at that time?

MS SEKHWAMA: I really don't know.

DR RANDERA: You said Sarah has got children.  You've mentioned one child to Mr Manthata.  How many other children has she got and how old are they?