Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-15

MR LAX: And yet you took no steps whatsoever to ensure that that might happen, you made no efforts to find out whether the police were on the trial of these bombers?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I did not Chairperson, and I think - we received a specific instruction that one would execute and one complies with that instruction, one does not go wider than that, because one does not know, it maybe what you are referring to, is probably the function of another person in the intelligence wing.  Possibly such a person received such an instruction to do it, it was not my function, and that is simply why I did not do it.  If it was asked of me, then I would have done so.

MR LAX: And you weren't even curious about it?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Whether the police would think, no.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, that is all the questions I have.

CHAIRPERSON: Just very briefly Mr van Zyl, do you know what happened to all the documentation you have talked about, written reports, you have talked about letters that you had in your possession, what has happened to that documentation?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Chairperson, all the documentation of our Region were filed in files.  I cannot tell you what happened to it, some of the files were confiscated, some of them went missing, unfortunately I cannot help you there.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever yourself, personally, after the bubble burst, try to get your hands on any documents yourself?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: To assist you in the predicament that you found yourself in?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Nothing?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No.

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't know what happened at all to the documentation?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you in your personal capacity, as a member of the CCB, keep any documents?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, never.

CHAIRPERSON: Copies or, you know, if you made a report, didn't you keep a copy and hide it in your cupboard or something like that, for your own records?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: Nothing?  Thank you.  Mr Martini, do you have any questions arising out of questions that were put by Members of the Panel?

MR MARTINI: No Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MARTINI

CHAIRPERSON: ... the various of Mr du Plessis', any questions arising?  Mr Coetzee?

MR DU PLESSIS: No thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS

MR COETZEE: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR COETZEE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kahanovitz, Mr Bizos, any questions arising that have been put by Members of the Panel?
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KAHANOVITZ
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Williams?

MR WILLIAMS: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLIAMS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hockey?

MR HOCKEY: No thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HOCKEY

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Coleridge?

MS COLERIDGE: No questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS COLERIDGE

CHAIRPERSON: I did ask Mr Coetzee at the back.  You don't have any, sorry.  Mr van Zyl, thank you, that then concludes your testimony, thank you very much.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Thank you Chairperson.
WITNESS EXCUSED

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, there is a possibility during the course of these proceedings, (indistinct) that we may want to put to Mr van Zyl, I am sure that, I don't know whether his attorney intends remaining,  well, if he does, if we could on proper application being made for the re-call, that he will be available, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think that would apply to any person, any witness.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: If they are not actually present, I don't think I have seen Mr Verster, but if he was required, then we would request his presence.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: What is happening now Ms Coleridge, are we going to proceed or - I would be loathe to proceed with the leading of Mr Webb at this stage, because Mr Wessels is not here, and the understanding of the evidence of Mr Verster who Mr Wessels represents, that there may be certain points which may be in dispute, and if we proceed without Mr Wessels, then it might lead to a delay later, getting hold of a typed record, etc.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, we will reluctantly accept ...

MR LAX: Your microphone is off.

CHAIRPERSON: I think, I see now it is just after three o'clock, so we haven't lost a great deal of time, we probably would have stopped at four.
	Well, we will then adjourn until Monday, next Monday, I think that is the 19th of June 2000, at this hall, at half past nine in the morning.  Thank you.

MS COLERIDGE: Thank you Chairperson.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS