Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Ronnie will deal with the Transkei.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: The Transkei certainly provided sanctuary for both ANC, MK, PAC, APLA people, particularly in the period where a military council operated, pre-'90 and then obviously post-'90 a lot of our people were there, and at some stage Chris Hani was there, if you remember, when his indemnity was withdrawn, instead of leaving the country or going underground he was able to stay in the Transkei from approximately June 1990 to approximately June '91, thereabouts. So sanctuary was possible.
As far as a base is concerned there was no base, we didn't set up a military command to organise operations out of the Transkei against any part of South Africa, including let's say the IFP or its administration in KwaZulu Natal. But that military council allowed certain degree of military training for both MK and APLA to take place in the Transkei. To a certain degree this was fairly open. We had MK and APLA people at times parading there, but in a sense you had that elsewhere in South Africa as well. We would see MK people, particularly, in all parts of South Africa and there would be parades or marches and assistance given at various funerals or rallies together with marshals. The Transkei was clearly a place where it was possible to provide weapons from a sympathetic structure in the Transkei.
We've talked earlier quite openly about the fact, and not only here today but in the past, that with the development of self-defence units to protect people through MK assistance was given throughout South Africa. Clearly some assistance was provided through the Transkei. I think in terms of that it's obviously for the administration of the Transkei to respond to that aspect of your question. But we never, as ANC/MK, set up a base there as a place to attack specific targets.
Now it's quite possible that individuals who were MK in that particular area could have taken part in some activities out of the Transkei and one might perhaps see this in the amnesty applications. But I'm repeating again there was nothing set up by way of a military command as such under MK headquarters, from Shell House, in that respect with instructions going out to our people in the Transkei. So a base from which to launch operations, no, sanctuary, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: On the Reggie Gadebe issue I think, well Matthews Phosa is just making a point about it here, that I think that the Deputy President had referred to this, not by name.

MR VALLY: My final question, Archbishop.
President Mandela in April this year said inter alia during his budget speech,
"It is not Afrikaners in general who are being called to account because as with other languages in cultural communities it is not in the nature of the Afrikaner as such to be brutal to others".
He went on to say,
"All of us, as a nation that has newly found itself, share in the shame at the capacity of human beings of any race or language group to be inhumane to other human beings".
What is the position of the ANC regarding this issue? What message does the ANC have, both to its own supporters and to the country at large, regarding building this bridge to the new South Africa which will encompass the issue of reconciliation?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Modise.

MR MODISE: Thank you Mr Chairperson. I think President Mandela has spoken for the African National Congress, we share that view and we support every word that he has uttered. We have never really attributed inhumanity and brutality to a special race. It's always individuals in various races that would proceed along those lines, and some individuals can organise groups around themselves who share that view. But our view has always been that all South Africans are committed, there are good South Africans throughout our races, all our races. The MK had both Afrikaners, Englishmen, Portuguese, Zulu, Xhosa, Venda, Shangaan, and all of us fought for the same cause, and we think that humanity will be found amongst all races. The President was absolutely correct, we share that view and it's a view that we will strive for. We will work towards the success of this approach.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbeki.