Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-26

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Sheikh Gabier.  I  just want to find out from my colleagues whether they would want to ask you anything,  Glenda Wildschut.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Morning Sheikh.

SHEIKH GABIER: Morning.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Perhaps just a few questions of clarity and perhaps just to corroborate some of the information  that we have and try and check it out with you.  The march on the 26th of August started at Athlone Stadium, that was the meeting place.

SHEIKH GABIER: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Sorry on the 28th of August.

SHEIKH GABIER: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: The 28th of August and at that gathering people were baton charged and there was unrest as a result of polisie action at the Athlone Stadium.  Did people move from Athlone Stadium to Hewitt Training College or do you think that the people began to gather at Hewitt Training College  as well.

SHEIKH GABIER: Yes, what happened at first, people came to the Athlone Stadium as been planned, that as the gathering point and because the police had surrounded the Athlone Stadium and chased everybody away and beat up everybody who gave some idea of coming together for the march.
 They then, but we are talking now of something which, I mean it was totally out of order.  We are speaking of real violence, people who were chased and kicked and all sorts of things in Klipfontein Road.  And because there were some of the comrades who were stationed on the corners there, they were al picked up.  Men like Abel Hendrickse and also doctor Stevens they were picked up in Klipfontein Road amongst many others.
 Then some gatherings were trying, some people were trying to gather at other areas as well but the one area that became the - the successful area was in the grounds of Hewitt College where everybody somehow or other got a message and I suppose they watched the helicopter and then knew now where the helicopter is, there is were the gathering would be.  And that is where about somewhere around about 4 000, 3 000 to 4 000 it could be more, it could be less but in that particular numbers gathered at the Hewitt College.  We organized ourselves wel under the circumstances and from there we marched out to Pollsmoor.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: The date of die Pollsmoor march was during the state of emergency, was there a state of emergency in the Western Cape at that time.

SHEIKH GABIER: Yes - yes I reckon if I am mot mistaken I was informed and my memory was refreshed because the state of emergency was declared a few days after this particular march.  If not immediately after the march but it, we reckon that it was the result of this particular march.  But the Rand went down very, very quickly.

MS WILDSCUT: Yes - just with regard to the numbers of the expected to have at that march.  Can you give you give us an idea of hoe many people you expected to march to Pollsmoor.

SHEIKH GABIER: Well we have spread the word as wide as possible through the churches and through the Mosques and through all other anti apartheid organisations and we  reckoned  that if the march was allowed to, if the march was allowed to march as free as it should  have been,  we reckon that nothing less than 40 to 50 thousand people would have been there easily if not more.
 But that would have been the kind of figure and that would  have  I suppose would have made the necessary impact and would have been a good message to send to those who were in jail that we are with them all the time.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Ja, thank you

ADV POTGIETER: Sheikh it just remains for me to thank you for coming and to take us back to those days, those dark days.  And for reminding us so vividly what people had gone through and what sacrifices were made in order for us to speak as free people as you have put it.  In fact it is very hard even now very short, very soon after the - that incident to think that what is recorded or accepted as - internationally as part of basic human rights the freedom of expression through mass action, protest action.
 That sort of conduct is criminilised and it turned into quite a remarkable tragedy in the end.  But it is necessary for us to record those incidence, as painful as they might be, so that first of all it is on record and secondly tot ensure that we avoid a repetition of that sort of nightmare and to ensure that those who come after us will be spared that sort of lot.  But thank you very much for the context and for taken us through what have happened that particular day.  We appreciate it very much.

SHEIKH GAMIER: Thank you very much sir I just want to last say that there was so much beautiful songs that we sang at the time and I believe that the Reconciliation, the Truth and the Reconciliation Commission should make an effort to have these songs recorded so that our children must sing them as they go along in the future.  Songs like Sensani.
 It had a wonderful effect on all of us.  We will overcome, we will overcome someday that played a role and  these are the kind, although I am a religious man we are not so much good in singing but it had a good effect and be remembered and should be repeated on the tongues and the hearts of our children in the future.  Thank you very, very much.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Sheikh.   We will proceed with the testimony of Louise Paulsen and I ask her to come up please.