Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: He appeared as if he had something in his hand and he asked something of me, he was asking about Dingos and Dingos is one other friend that we were detained with regard to Madondo's case, I told him that Dingos was inside.
 They said: "Dingos, somebody wanted to see you" and I just saw Dingos approaching at that stage and Sizwe asked him where the gun was, Dingos asked which gun was being referred to and he said: "My brother or my friend's gun".  They discussed about that gun, that it was a toy gun and it was not a real gun.  As they were discussing, Sizwe pulled out the gun and shot right on top and as he shot that side one guy Ben Xholongo came out of the shebeen and he was remarkably drunk and he did not even want to listen to what was being said to him.
 All the people who were drinking came out the house and Sizwe called me after he shot in the air, he was pointing the gun at me as he called me.  I went to him and he pushed me with the gun and we went back to the passage that we used coming to the house.  When we got to the passage I was thinking that the next culprit will be me, I will be the next one who will be shot.
 He asked me where Toli was and I told him Toli was around as we were standing at the gate, I don't know where he disappeared to and he said: "I'm here for Toli" and I told him that he was around but I didn't know where he disappeared to.  He went down the passage and I followed him and we saw those boys from the night vigil just gathering there.
 We went to ask Butele - we went to the other street from the passage and we heard a gunshot.  We found out that Sizwe Sithole was shooting.

MR MAKANJEE: Who was Sizwe Sithole shooting?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Toli was being shot by Sizwe Sithole.

MR MAKANJEE: Okay.  Did you make a statement to the police in regard to that event?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: You mean revenge?

MR MAKANJEE: No, I'm asking whether you gave evidence or did you give a statement to the police with regard to the event where Toli Dlamini was shot?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I did.

MR MAKANJEE: And did you attend the trial as well and give evidence in that trial?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, I did not.

MR MAKANJEE: Can you tell us what occurred after this?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: On that day Toli tried to escape and Sizwe Sithole - and they grabbed him and he fell and Sizwe pulled out the magazine and put another one on the gun and we were approaching.  He pointed the gun at us now, we ran away.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Ikaneng, I want to know, after Toli was shot by Mr Sithole, what happened then?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: The following day we met with these comrades that we were supposed to go to the night vigil with, I asked them if it was acceptable for the way Toli was murdered and maybe we should call Mrs Mandela as to why Toli was killed in the manner which he was killed in.
 We agreed to that and we went to call box at a certain shopping complex - there were public phones there, and I took out some coins and I asked for the telephone number of Mrs Mandela's house in Diepkloof.   I don't remember if she's the one who answered the phone or - I spoke to her and I told her that I am Lerothodi and we want to know why Sizwe killed Toli this way.
 Mrs Mandela said to me: "We'll have to discuss this matter" and she'll send transport to fetch us and we agreed with that.  We waited for transport there at the shopping complex.  We were about 7 or 8 ...[intervention]

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Ikaneng, did you get to Mrs Mandela's house at any stage after that telephone call?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, we did.

MR MAKANJEE: What happened?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: We went to Diepkloof, when we got there we were taken inside the house and we occupied the dining room and Mrs Mandela came with Zinzi and some other boys who were football members and Richardson was there as well.  We sat down and Mrs Mandela asked what our story was, why are we there and I told her that we were there to find out why Toli was killed like that.
 She responded and said: "I don't know what Toli did" and I wanted to find out what it is that Toli did, she said that Toli went to Biza's case and testified and Biza has been convicted now.  I asked her another question - that Toli died in my presence and now I have to explain and give an explanation as to how he died and so on and Mrs Mandela promised me a place of accommodation where I would be accommodated and I should go to stay there and hide from the police so that it's not clear how Toli died.
 I went to fetch my clothes and I went back to the house so she could take me to the place she told me about, that's what she said and she gave me taxi money to go home and get the clothes  In the taxi I told the boys with whom I was that I'm no longer going back to the house, as I'm going I'm not coming back.  When we got to Toli's house they told me that the police were there already and I need to give a testimony with regard to Toli's death.
 The following day the police came again and found me at Toli's house, they took me with to Protea Police Station, that's where I submitted my statement and then they brought me back home.

MR MAKANJEE: When you say home, are you referring to your own house?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Repeat?

MR MAKANJEE: When you say home, are you referring to your own house?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, they took me back home where I stay.

MR MAKANJEE: Subsequent to that a gentleman named Shoes collected you and took you back to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: We met Shoes at the swimming pool, we saw Shoes there at the swimming pool, I was with Gift Ntombeni and he said: "Mum wants to see you at the office".  We all went to the offices and when we got to the offices - when I looked at them, they looked very angry and we sat down - there were sofas there.

MR MAKANJEE: Who was present at the office?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: It was Mrs Madikizela-Mandela as well as Zinzi.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] find out ...[intervention]

MR MAKANJEE: Two minutes Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I want to find out whether I should use the guillotine.  Yes, all right.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Ikaneng, you'll have to be brief with your answers if you don't mind, okay?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Okay.

MR MAKANJEE: So you were at Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's office, what happened?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: We sat down, Mrs Madikizela-Mandela said: "Is this what we have come for in the Mandela family"

MR MAKANJEE: What did you think she was talking about?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I knew - it was pretty obvious to me as to what she was talking about, she said she'll find a hiding place for me so that I do not submit a statement to the police so I knew what she was talking about.  She stood up and she grabbed me by my clothes and started assaulting me with an open hand, she started assaulting me with firsts, she directed she was to take me to Diepkloof.
 Gift was leading the way, he had his own escort and I was escorted by Shoes.  When we got outside they opened the door of the car, Gift got in and I escaped.

MR MAKANJEE: You escaped and where did you go to?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I went home and I told them what was happening and the fact that I was chased and as I was still there ...[intervention]

MR MAKANJEE: Where did you go when you escaped?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I went to Sharpeville.

MR MAKANJEE: That was around October 1988, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR MAKANJEE: On the 3rd of January you returned to Soweto, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR MAKANJEE: You met Jerry Richardson, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: yes.

MR MAKANJEE: Jerry Richardson and members of the United Football Club proceeded to assault you, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That is correct.