Human Rights Violation Hearings — Alexandra — 1996-10-30

MR LEWIN: We are sorry you have had such a long time to wait but thank you very much for waiting and for coming like this.  Before you start I would just ask if you could please take the oath.

ESTHER GRANT: (s.s.)

MR LEWIN: I will ask Hlengiwe Mkhize.

MS MKHIZE: Good afternoon. I would like to welcome you.  It has been a long wait for you and really I can see how difficult it is for you to relate your story.  We would really appreciate it if you can help us to understand the nature of the conflict that we have been hearing about between different groups here in Alexandra, especially as it related to your displacement.  If you can just tell us a little bit about yourself and then give details about your own story.

ESTHER GRANT: It was on a Friday on the 15th of 1992.  On my way, I was coming from work.  When I came I met another gentleman, he said to me oh it is terrible.  The bullets this side on 3rd Avenue, on your side.  And when I came out of that Double Up, I was trying to double up short cut so that I must reach home quickly, I find my other son is busy with a big truck taking all my household, putting it in that truck and I cried, I said why are you doing that, he said everybody is running away, is moving, how can you stay with these people when things are going on like this.  The
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shooting was going on, we couldn't even - some things were getting broken to pieces.  I couldn't even have patience, I was just crying, the bullets were just going like this, missing people.  Then I said to my son where am I going, he says no you will have to see where will go like the people are going to the Council.  Then I was dumped at the Council from 1992 up to now and even there at the Council there is no peace, it is not a nice place for a person like me to stay.  There is always fightings around, people just starting with nothing.  You don't know what is the cause of the trouble.  It is too much and those people who are staying in our houses, where do they come from.  Are we not people, are we animals?  We must suffer through the other people.  Where did they stay?  Where do they come from when they come and occupy our houses?  To them we are just like you know just like a piece of paper.  People have got no manners to talk nicely to people, they just take you roughly.  Plenty of my things are lost, everybody has got my things, people are just putting things which they don't know to whom does it belong.  But because I depend on God Almighty Jesus how many years are we start there by the Council, we are like sardines if you can come and see, what little room am I staying in the Council.  With daughters.  I can't even wash myself, I must ask them to go outside.  Is that the life I am living for the sake of those people that I don't know where do they come from.  Where do they belong.  My late father's property is being occupied by other people.  I am suffering like a mad dog.

MS MKHIZE: Miss Grant I would like just to ask you a few questions in relation to what we have heard.  First of all I must acknowledge that the message is clear, you are very
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upset and angry about your circumstances at the present moment. On the day when you came back home and found your son putting everything in a big truck can you indicate to us as to how many families were in those circumstances, families who had to leave their places of abode?

ESTHER GRANT: It was me and my next door neighbour and the neighbour this side.  117, 119, 120.  We all had to be in one truck.  And then my son took all my house things to his in-laws.  Most of my things disappeared there.  I have got no TV.  My TV and things have all disappeared.  How I don't know.

MS MKHIZE: You have just mentioned the other neighbours, 117, 119, 120.  I suppose one of them is yours.  Can you tell us the reason how these three houses were targeted. Was it on political grounds or what happened?

ESTHER GRANT: I really don't know, I really can't say whether was it on political - we were facing to Madala hostel as neighbours and those people whatever they used to do I always used to sit.  Sometimes I used to sit by the stoep there by the verandah and say to my child oh my heart, I don't know why, I just feel worried.  Then I said there, I smelt a corpse, really just now I will see the people coming to pick up that corpse.  People were being slaughtered.  People couldn't even walk in that street.  It is a main street that goes to Queue township, goes to the taxis.  It is always busy.  People couldn't even pass comfortably, you are being stabbed, you are being shot.  I said but what kind of life is this.

MS MKHIZE: You mentioned that you used to see corpses being picked up.

ESTHER GRANT: Being picked up we were just - there was
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something like a big grass like this, that is where they used to sometimes kill people and throw them there.  Then people used to notice after three, four days that there is somebody lying around there.

MS MKHIZE: Do you know whether any of the residents ever reported this to the police?

ESTHER GRANT: I really don't know if ever people used to report.  But with me I have reported the case to that Wynberg.  Now I don't even remember that sergeant who took my case, I have lost even that docket number.

MS MKHIZE: If I may ask you, are you politically aligned in one way or another yourself.

ESTHER GRANT: I myself.

MS MKHIZE: You are not politically aligned.

ESTHER GRANT: No.

MS MKHIZE: Where you are staying you have indicated was that the circumstances are extremely - are unhealthy.

ESTHER GRANT: It is unhealthy and it is not a suitable place for a mother like me to stay in that place.  Where you will find you are always being blamed for things that you don't know.  You see I don't drink actually, I only drink water and tea, that is all.  So you are always being blamed for nothing.

MS MKHIZE: Given the location of your previous house, because you say whenever you were sitting there it used to face Madala hostel, do you think it will be an ideal thing to go back to a place like that or you look for an alternative place?

ESTHER GRANT: No, no, no they can rather replace me another place, not to go back to that.  It is Sodom and Gomorrah that place.  I would never turn back to that place really.
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I think that is why my mother and my father died before they could ...  (witness crying hysterically).

MS MKHIZE: Thank you very much.  We have heard your story and the councillors from Alexandra are here.  I should think the issue of the displaced people will be their priority in working closely with us, we could come up with some ideas and proposals as to how this problem should be resolved.  We thank you very much for coming forward and making this statement.