Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

MR MOKOENA: Motibang Mokoena is my name.

CHAIRPERSON: Who else?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not remember the other one.  We were three or four, I do not remember.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't remember the names of the other person, or you don't remember whether they were present?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I do not know the name.

CHAIRPERSON: The name of the third person?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes sir.

MR MAPOMA: On your arrival at Block F, what happened?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I said, when we arrived at Block F, they said to me, I should go to the shack.  I went to the shack again and I went back again to them to the SDU's, and they were together with the members of the community.

MR MAPOMA: Now, you said when you went into the shack, there were already some who were inside the shack, how many were there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: There were three sir.

CHAIRPERSON: There were seven of you at that stage?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, we were seven.  Those I came with, they proceeded to the shack, then I remained behind.

MR MAPOMA: Can you tell who those who were already in the shack, were, their names?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Those who were already in the shack, some of them have since died.  I don't know the names. They knew me as the leader of the community, but I didn't know some of their names.

MR MAPOMA: Now you were allowed to leave the shack and to go to some people around Bulelwa's body, then what happened?

CHAIRPERSON: Were you allowed to go there, or were you instructed to go where Bulelwa's body was?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They did not instruct me, I myself went there.

MR MAPOMA: Were you free to move around?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes, I was free because whilst we were still at Bulelwa's corpse, among the community there was one who said what time was it, but at that time it was already sunrise.
	Then somebody said if the Police come, we are going to fight with them because it has already been eight hours since she has died.  From those members of the SDU, that is Vusi, Nxeba and Oscar and Alex, I don't remember the fifth one.
	That is where Oscar, when I returned to the shack, he tried to shoot me, and Mr Mokoena prevented him to do so.

MR MAPOMA: Then what happened?

CHAIRPERSON: From where the members of the SDU find you up to the spot where Bulelwa's body was, were you just walking freely?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct sir, I was walking freely.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you have gone home if you wanted to?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I wouldn't try to go home, because the way they were armed, they would kill me.  But I just said to myself, let me just go like some of those who were captured.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they order you to go with them to the spot where Bulelwa's body had been found?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct sir.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were not walking freely then?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It was like that that I was not walking freely, but that is where Nxeba said he was holding me with his hand.  I was walking freely like any other person who was walking with him.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you being held by Nxeba?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No sir, he didn't hold me with his hand.

MR MAPOMA: Then what did you do, what happened?

CHAIRPERSON: You were at the stage when you were telling us that once at the shack, Oscar tried to shoot at you.  Did he succeed in shooting you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No sir, he did not succeed because Mr Mokoena prevented him.

CHAIRPERSON: What did Oscar do?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: He had an AK47, he pulled that AK47 to, as if he was shooting me, then Mr Mokoena pushed him aside and prevented him.  Then Oscar turned to me and said Whena and Tusang are your friends.  If you say I myself have killed Bulelwa, I am going to shoot all of you and go to prison.  That is Oscar.

MR MAPOMA: Just repeat what he said.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Whena and Tusang, you Tusaneng and your friends, I am going to shoot all of you and go to prison.

MR MAPOMA: Was that because you were alleging that he had shot Bulelwa?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No, I heard that for the first time from him.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he give as a reason for shooting you, the fact that you had said that he had shot Bulelwa?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.  As I said that among the community there was one who mentioned time, although I don't remember what time he said it was.  Then he said when the Police arrive, we are going to fight them because the deceased has been killed for a long time.
	I have already mentioned those who were in front of me, as to whether are you not going to call the Police, because as a leader of the community, I would say that as we are here.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you tell the Committee, from the time when Oscar said he was going to shoot you until when you left the place, what happened, how did you happen to leave the place?  You told us that Oscar tried to shoot you, but Mokoena intervened, then Oscar said to you he was going to shoot all of you, because you are saying that he had killed Bulelwa.

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: If we say, if we allege that he killed Bulelwa, he will shoot at us.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, now what happened thereafter, after he had said that, what happened?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I already said that among the members of the community, one person mentioned time and it came to my mind that when the Police arrive here, we are going to be at loggerheads with them about the long time that the deceased spent there.
	I already told you the members of the SDU that were around me, now when they responded, let me start with Oscar, he said you know that I came back from prison on Thursday.  Now the Police might take me in again.  Nxeba responded by saying you know that the Internal Stability is looking for me.  Vusi also added, he said guys, you know that all members of the Internal Stability Unit have my name, Alex withdrew, he did not respond.
	I said to them guys, if there is any one among the members of the community who has transport, please provided us with transport so that we can go and fetch the Police because we wanted to go to the hospital, that is how I escaped.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Is there any cross-examination Mr Madasa?

MR MADASA: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MADASA: Who did you discuss with the question of getting transport?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I discussed this with members of the SDU and members of the community were present, listening at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: The members of the SDU that you discussed that matter with, would that include Oscar?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes.

MR MADASA: Yes, who else?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Vusi Mthembu, Mike Sonti, Alex.

MR MADASA: Who is Alex?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: He is not present here among the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they say to this idea of you going to get a car?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: They withdrew because I indicated earlier on that we wanted to go and get the Police.  Oscar said no, and he had just been released on Thursday.  Vusi confessed that guys you know my name is among the members of the Stability Unit.  Nxeba said the same.  Alex did not respond, he just stood back.
	The fifth one, who was next to me, I cannot remember him.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they allow you to go and look for the motor vehicle?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct My Lord.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't they try to prevent you in any manner whatsoever?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: One member from the community volunteered that he will provide us with a car to accompany us.

CHAIRPERSON: Did that member say that in the presence of Oscar, Vusi, Mike and Alex?