Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-09-11

MR STANDER: I am ready to start now.  The first witness I want to call is Mr Makhubalo, alias Oupa.  Before doing this, I want to submit to you the amended sworn statement.  I submitted sworn statements to you last night, but after going through these last night, my friend Mr Wagner showed me some typing errors which I corrected and with your permission I will now put three sworn statements before you, three Bundles.
	At this stage some of these statements contained in the Bundles, I want to refer you to page 11, a statement of Mr Abel Shuane, Jeff Mabilo, Mr M.J. Jekila, Mr (indistinct) Samuel Makwena, Mrs Manchu - these statements have not been attested yet due to the fact that they haven't arrived.  If we do not continue tomorrow, I hope to present these to you at a later stage.
	I am now asking permission to submit these documents.  Could I just ask you, I made ten copies but some of these copies had not been attested.  I don't have any copies for myself.  
	Judge Ngoepe's is on the corner of his table, if I may have it please.  I thank you.

OUPA MAKHUBALO: (sworn states)

MR STANDER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr
Makhubalo, if you look at the Bundle in front of you, there are two of them, one is marked with a 1 and there is one marked with a 2.  Have you  got these in front of you?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: That is correct.

MR STANDER: I would like to explain Mr Chairman.  Bundle 1 is the one which I have submitted yesterday with some typing errors which have now been corrected.
	I have done this because I discovered these mistakes too late and I take full responsibility for this.  My clerk was responsible for these errors.
	Mr Makhubalo, please look at Bundle 2, on page 3, that is your sworn statement?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: That is correct.

MR STANDER: Could you just continue by reading your affidavit into the record?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: That is so.

MR STANDER: Could you continue with this please?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I, undersigned Sizane Joel Makhubalo, alias Oupa, do hereby make a statement and say I am an adult male herein represented by the firm (indistinct), 96 (indistinct), Bloemfontein.
	I am a victim in the acts of both applicants namely Mr Ngo and Mr Motsamai in their application for amnesty as described in the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, 1995, Act number 34 of 1995.
	I suffered grievous bodily injuries due to the acts of members of the Security Police in that I was tortured.  The torturing was done to confess my activities in Mangawu's Youth Congress which was affiliated to the United Democratic Front.
	And members of the Security Police that I can still remember took part in my torturing was Swanepoel, Tereblanche, Mamome, Erasmus, Tsoametsi, Motsamai, Ngo, Kopi and Miningwa.

MR STANDER: Would you turn the page to page 4 thereof please.

OUPA MAKHUBALO: There was also an attempt to murder me.  The police officers that was involved in these incidents, was Constable Motsamai and Sergeant Mamome.  Signed by S.J. Makhubalo.

MR STANDER: Mr Makhubalo, if we look at the logical sequence of events in which you were involved, I am talking about as things happened in the course of time, the chronological sequence, is it true that the attempted murder took place first?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: You are correct, My Lord.

MR STANDER: Can you remember more or less when this attempted murder took place?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Even if I don't remember the day and the month, I remember the year very well.

MR STANDER: Can you give it to us, please?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Early in 1986.

MR STANDER: What were you doing on that particular day before the shooting took place?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I visited my friends who is Monapule Ntamo.

MR STANDER: I understand it was a very hot summer's day, is that right?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: It was so hot, I was even half naked, I pulled out my shirt on that day.

MR STANDER: Just tell us who sent you to buy something?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: My friend went to buy colddrink.

MR STANDER: What happened when he did not return?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I tried to go and look what was delaying him so much.

MR STANDER: Do you mean that you left the premises, the plot of that particular house?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I was at the gate because the tuck shop where he was going to buy, was just opposite the house.

MR STANDER: And when you got to the gate, which vehicles did you see in the road?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I saw a Security Branch kombi.

MR STANDER: Did you recognise anyone inside the vehicle?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I saw Mamome and Motsamai.

MR VISSER: I am sorry Mr Chairman, I heard him say Ngo, was I wrong?

CHAIRPERSON: I can't hear you.

MR VISSER: I thought I heard him say Ngo as well.

MR STANDER: When you recognised these two people in the vehicle, what did you decide to do then?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Because there was no meeting we were supposed to go to, I did not see any reason to run away.  I just stood still.

MR STANDER: And when you were standing there, what happened then?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Mamome through a window, took out a gun and he started shooting.

MR STANDER: In whose direction did he shoot?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: He was shooting towards my direction.

MR STANDER: Did you see him pointing a gun in your direction just before a shot went off?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I saw him, My Lord.

ADV DE JAGER: How far away were they?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: It would be a distance from that table across the floor.

CHAIRPERSON: 15 paces?

MR STANDER: As it pleases the Chairman.  Were you hit, Mr Makhubalo?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: He missed me.

MR STANDER: Do you know why it is that he missed you?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I do not know how did it come about that he missed me.

MR STANDER: What did you do then after this shot missed you?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I ran away My Lord.

MR STANDER: Why?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I thought that was the only way to secure my life.

MR STANDER: Where did you run to?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I started jumping over the fences from Calla Street up to until King Street.

MR STANDER: Were any other shots fired while you were running away?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: There were gunshots sir, many.

MR STANDER: Could you see by whom the other shots that you heard, had been fired?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: At that time I did not have any time to look who was shooting.

MR STANDER: Why do you say this?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: My life was in danger, I wanted just one thing, to save my life and I was running away.

MR STANDER: Did you manage to escape completely?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I survived the shooting, but they managed to get hold of me because I was now tired of running.

MR STANDER: Where were you then found?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: I was taken to their offices in Fountains Street.

MR STANDER: Before you were taken there, where did your pursuers capture you, was it in the street?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Yes, it was at the street just after Mamome tripped me.  Even today you can see I have a missing tooth.  His boot kicked me on my mouth.

MR STANDER: Mr Makhubalo, am I correct in saying that you put your finger in your mouth to show that there was a tooth missing, one of your incisors from your upper jaw?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: That is correct.

MR STANDER: Do you say that due to the kick or the blow, you lost that tooth?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: That is correct.

MR STANDER: Who did you say, kicked you?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Mamome.

MR STANDER: Were you still able to run away at that stage?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: They got hold of me.

MR STANDER: Did the other members of the Security police also appear on the scene where  you were?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: They came to me, not to us.

MR STANDER: Was there another member of the Security Police that you could identify?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: When I got into their car, yes, there is someone I also identified.

MR STANDER: Can you tell us who it was?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: It is Motsamai.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of them were there, members of the Security Police?

OUPA MAKHUBALO: Because I was already hurt, I could not count how many were they when I got into the car.