Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-12

MR KNOETZE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no re-examination.  There is one outstanding matter and that is the plan that we handed in.
	I understood from my learned friends for the other applicants that in general, the plan is not different to their instructions, but there are smaller details and  a road that should be put in here, so as far as we are concerned Mr Chairman, the plan needn't be taken further if you don't feel that it should.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I don't think we really need it and we will not be, you did mention and I am sure the record will reflect that, you did mention that it should be Exhibit 7 and I should just for the record indicate that it has in fact not been formally accepted as an Exhibit.

MR KNOETZE: As you please Mr Chairman.

MR KNOETZE: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We will adjourn for the next 15 minutes.

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COMMISSION ADJOURNS

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, was the applicant released, was he formally released?  He has?  I see members of the family, so I don't know why you were called in.  I have asked them to send for these people to come from their tea.

CHAIRPERSON: In the meantime for the purpose of the record, Mr Prinsloo, is that your case?

MR PRINSLOO: No Mr Chairman, I intend calling a witness.  There is one aspect that I will discuss briefly with Mr Brink, I will merely maybe just hand in a document, depending on that, and I intend calling a witness.

CHAIRPERSON: I should have (indistinct) that Ms Van der Walt, but I suppose it doesn't matter?

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Chairperson, I do have a witness which I subpoenaed to be here, but I would like to put it that Mr Prinsloo would first call his witness and then maybe it won't be necessary for me to call mine.  It depends on what Mr Prinsloo's witness is going to say.
	With your permission, if I can just leave it for the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Prinsloo.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  The witness I intend calling is Mr Kriel, Andries Kriel.

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson, he's got a bit of a hearing problem.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: (sworn states)

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Kriel, if you have a problem to hear, just use the headphones.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I can hear, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Kriel, were you a member of the AWB?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Chairperson for several years I have been a member of the AWB.  Just after the creation thereof in 1973, I joined the AWB.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, during 1993 which rank did you have in the AWB?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I was a Brigadier and also a Commander in the AWB.

MR PRINSLOO: For which area were you a Commander for the AWB in South Africa?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I was in the Northern Free State, I was a Commander.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you involved where you were the Commander with the Volksfront?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Chairperson.  In my capacity as Commander of the AWB, I was appointed as the leader of the Volksfront in the Northern Free State.

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage, who was that, the leader of the Volksfront?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The leader of the Volksfront was Mr Jaco de Villiers.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you also involved with Gen Constand Viljoen?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, naturally Constand Viljoen was involved with the Volksfront and the AWB was party to the Volksfront.  I often had dealings with the Volksfront and also with Constand Viljoen.

MR PRINSLOO: The leader of the AWB, Mr Eugene Terreblanche, was he known to you?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Eugene Terreblanche, I already met before the creation of the AWB, I met him during 1971.  Then I was an Organiser in the HNP and Terreblanche came from the South African Police and also accepted a position as an Organiser for the HNP.

MR PRINSLOO: During that term of yours at the AWB which lasted till 1994, what was your relationship with the leader of the AWB, Eugene Terreblanche?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: We became really good friends Chairperson.  Mr Terreblanche took me into his confidence and even at that stage he already told me that he was planning to put together a resistance movement and he also told me that he was a bodyguard at John Vorster and the Premier of that time and from there, he went to the political division where he was trained in politics and he told me that before then he didn't know much about politics, but then in the political division, they gave him training and Anna Neethling Pohl taught him how to talk.

MR PRINSLOO: December 1993, Mr Kriel, in that time, on request of Mr Terreblanche, did you go and visit him?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: During 1993 Terreblanche told me that I had to come and see him and I went to Ventersdorp where I saw him on his farm.  He told me that the time was ready for terror and that I had to start planting bombs.

MR PRINSLOO: Was this in September 1993?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: This was in September 1993 Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: Where did you have to plant these bombs?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Chairperson, he said that we had to look at the communication lines, look at Escom, but he also told me that if I could not find a target, I should use any target which I can lay my hands on and act according to my own discretion.
	He said even if you only kick over the toilet, just get working and plant bombs.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, who were with you when you went to see Mr Terreblanche?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The Secretary General of the AWB, Nico Prinsloo was also present.  We agreed that me, that I would link or liaise with Nico Prinsloo with regards to the explosions.
	We had a code that if an explosion would take place, then I would tell him that it would rain tonight.  Or if one happened the night before, I would say it did rain yesterday or last evening, and that is the way we liaised.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, were there bomb explosions in that area?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: There were several bomb explosions.  Since September up until February there were several explosions - in the 30's.

MR PRINSLOO: Your area, is this in the Free State or where?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, I operated more widely than my own area.  I had the instruction to create cells further afield, there were creations in the Free State, in the Western Transvaal and also in the North Western Cape there were explosions.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, do you know anything about a revolution which would have started?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, the revolution over a long period of time, there was talk about it and we believed that the revolution was already under way.  Terreblanche at that stage told me that the revolution of the ANC already existed for a long time, many years, and that we have to continue with the revolution, that was definitely the case.

MR PRINSLOO: When was this Mr Kriel, as you remember?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: During November 1993 I went to Terreblanche and I complained to him and said that there were - too little was done by the other groups and the major explosions, the most of them was done by the groups who were under my command and I initiated that, and then I complained to him and then he told me that I must just hold on a little bit because the planning for the final step of the revolution was planned for a week before the 16th of December.
	A week before the 16th of December, certain task groups who were under Oelofse would be sent in and he said then he would send his best men, and he said he picked that date because he wants to build up to the Day of the Vow, when the whole nation would be together and from there, they delivered the final blow.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Kriel, can you just speak a little bit slower, you have to be interpreted, can you just speak a little slower please.