Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-08

MR BLACK: Even if that is the case, the point I am getting at is, even if it was done with political motives, even if it was done with political approval of the Organisation, it was - the approval appear to be after, subsequent to the event.  And I am submitting that that still does not attract from the fact that the act committed, the gravity of the act is out of proportion to the objectives sought to be achieved.
	That is the point that I am trying to make and in doing so, one should, in my submission, take into account the target, the nature of the target, the nature of the device used, the fact that - I would submit - both parties, applicants knew that civilians were going to be killed and the fact that it had tragic, as was proved, objectively it
was proved that the policeman, Mr Labushachne, who investigated the incident or the object, was killed because the nature of the object was such that it was a lethal device which could be detonated by simply shaking it.
	And it was a totally uncontrolled, cowardly form of device that was used.  I know it may well be so, but if the objective was to be obtained of publicity, of indicating or making a statement to the government or to parties who were regarded as the enemy, that the AWB or Mr Harmse's Organisation was not going to just sit by, a device, a controlled, a properly controlled device or an explosive could have been used in a building, at a government building, unoccupied by persons and the equal amount of publicity would have been resulted.
	What has happened here, is the publicity and tragic loss of life and nothing achieved.

JUDGE WILSON: You keep coming back to government building, government building, but doesn't the position throughout the world that these terrorist organisations strike at all sorts of building and places as for example, Aintree Race Course, last Saturday, hardly a government building, but nobody has disputed that it was the act of the IRA in furtherance of their objects?

MR BLACK: I am not able to comment on that, and I don't know if the IRA have claimed responsibility, but my submission is that that still does not detract from the proportionality business or two wrongs do not make a right.
	And I submit therefor that had Mr Harmse or his Organisation wanted to achieve the objective as he says, to demonstrate to affected parties, or the enemy as he calls it, that they were just not sitting by and allowing CODESA
to proceed, there was no need to deliberately go out and plant a lethal device, uncontrolled explosive, in a shopping complex which both Mr Harmse knew or he expected would be occupied by Muslim people and he, Mr Harmse, knew or thought that the bomb would actually go off when the doors were, attempts were made to open the doors and therefor he deliberately went out to kill people and my submission is that that is out of all proportion to the objective which was allegedly being sought, to further and to publicise the aims and objectives of his Organisation.  
	I have, there is no evidence that his Organisation's policy was to murder and to maim innocent people.
	I have nothing further, Mr Chairman, thank you.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Chairman, in my argument I have already dealt with many of the aspects to which Mr Black has referred.  With regard to the proportionality I have also dealt with this matter and I want to argue with respect that one could make a very long list of acts of the ANC where innocent persons were involved, but I am sure that you are aware of this list.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Black's argument is that two wrongs do not make a right.  The fact that they did this, makes this just as wrong as the fact that Mr Harmse did so.

ADV PRINSLOO: The ANC believed that they would reach their goal and in my argument I have in fact stated that they have met their goal.  Similarly the applicant believed that he would reach his goal.
	The argument is not that he believed that it was a wrong act at that time, he considered it an act of war.  In the context of a war declared against the ANC/SACP alliance
and the then government, and with respect, that is what occurred.
	One could never, ever consider any person for amnesty if you were to consider what other persons did and this person believed in a specific ideal and he acted in terms of that ideal.  His Organisation was structured in a particular way, there was a military wing, the Boer Republican Army, similarly to the military wing of the ANC.
	The difference then is in terms of the goals and ideals, but my argument is with respect that there was no lack of proportionality between the act and the ideal or goal.
	With regard to big business or the so called large financial institutions, it was his testimony that the Muslim Indian, members of the Muslim Indian community had in fact the particular financial means to contribute to the aims of the ANC.
	With regard to State institutions and the difference drawn.  With respect I want to argue that the testimony of the witness is that by placing the bomb at the commercial centre, he believed that this would make a difference.
	A State or a government building was therefor not considered.  A further aspect that the - it would have been better to use a controlled device, with respect Mr Chairman, you have pointed out to Mr Black the fact that landmines have been used in many cases.  This was a situation of war.
	A further aspect is that it is clear that the applicant Mr Harmse, was promoted in the Boer Republican Army because of this act, there was no other reason for his promotion.
	Thank you Honourable Chairman.

UNKNOWN: I have nothing to add.

JUDGE WILSON: The Committee will take time to arrive at its decision.  That concludes today's hearing, we will adjourn till what time tomorrow morning Mr Black?

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman, I hope nine o'clock.  That is the scheduled time, I did make enquiries that you raised.  The Prison authorities had some difficulty in locating the venue, but they tell me they were here at ten past nine, this morning.

JUDGE WILSON: Very well, we will adjourn till nine o'clock tomorrow morning.