Special Hearings — Media Hearings — 1997-09-15

MS MKHIZE: Thank you very much for giving us an exposition of your experiences within the SABC.  The issues you raise earlier on are very difficult but what I am going to do I am going to ask you questions which relate specifically to our concern today, the whole question of human rights violations in relation to your organisation.  You mentioned that you were treated differently, I mean members of staff were treated differently based on racial grounds and their political affiliations, but for us as a Commission there has been time and again we have come across, especially from the white community, people have raised concerns that they didn't know that other people in South Africa were treated so badly.  As a person who was inside, for instance SABC as an institution, how would you explain that practice that people just didn't - ended up not grasping the nature and extent of human rights violations?

BHEKI KHATHIDE: I wonder how those people were brought up and how they got their socialisation because I don't need to be politically sensitive to perceive any atrocity meted out to another person.  To make this quite clear, having been on the receiving end of things at the SABC, I know there were people who were worse off than me, worse off in the sense that I still am here at SABC after 15 years.  Two and a half months ago I was completing the years, there were those who were not a little luckier than I was to be working here till today for doing anything that (...indistinct) that.  So that when I say to you I know people witnessed, they did of course witness those kind of hardships directed at many of us and if they start to say they were not aware I fail to understand that if as a black would see other blacks being treated a little worse than I was why was it not so with those that were treated better than I was.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe if I might be more specific.  What is it about reporting, what is it which was done which made people for instance not know how many children were dying?  Would you say when a thousand people were killed in Soweto maybe there was a way of saying well only two people were injured?

BHEKI KHATHIDE: A deliberate blind-eye turning to realities would be the only reason.  If you go now to our archives and have time to go through those rushes, those videos that came from, particularly from the Reuter situations, you will find things that did not go on air because of the sanctioning.  So it is not that people were not aware and they did not know what was happening but it was did that go down their throat?  Did they approve of that to be seen by the public?

MS MKHIZE: One last question before I hand you over to the Chair.  How do you think SABC should be structured so that we don't hear stories of people saying we don't have an opportunity to report fairly?

BHEKI KHATHIDE: I have had a number of journalistic courses attending and in these courses I attended one thing I embrace that is the freedom of expression.  In line with this, therefore, if any corporation, if any news ...trained be given that status of being an adult, I am saying an adult coupling to training because you would know of course that you need to balance your stories, you need to do all the other things that are necessary.  Briefly you have to focus, you have to have a structure, you have to have an angle.  If that happens we will see a variety and growth, a variety of ideas on our screens without sanctioning that which the manager would want the people to see, but allowing people to make conclusions for themselves or for themselves about what they see.   In my meaning the country will develop, not only will those journalists develop but the country as well, the government will benefit because the government will also be having an access to things they might not know, and even things that aren't palatable to them, but it will be the worst government that will know things that are unpalatable to them that are a reality.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you Chair.

DR BORAINE: Are there any other questions.  Then I would like to thank you very much indeed for coming here today, for preparing a document, for giving it to us so that we can study it a little more even outside of the public arena and in particular for telling us in very stark language the sort of atmosphere and environment that you have been in.  And I hope very much that as we try to get an understanding there will also be a change and a transformation even beyond that which has already taken place.  Thank you very much indeed.

BHEKI KHATHIDE: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Just a couple of announcements.  There will be light snacks available for everyone where we had tea and coffee earlier, and that means everyone who is here, so the sooner you get there the better.  Secondly, and this is a very important announcement, for all working journalists, not very many I suppose, but for working journalists please note, and that was written by a journalist, Dumisa Ntsebeza will give a short, very short press briefing at 1:45 at Radio Centre and I would urge you to try and be there, that's for working journalists.    Can I thank you all for your attendance.  We will adjourn now until about quarter past two, two o'clock, alright, they say two o'clock, hard work, where we will resume the programme.  Thank you very much.
HEARING ADJOURNS

<UNKNOWN>: We start this afternoon's proceedings.  Welcome back. The next witness is Professor John van Zyl.  Good afternoon Professor van Zyl, welcome, thank you for coming.  Before we take your testimony I will ask you to take the oath.

S A B C: EDITOR IN CHARGE - TV NEWS

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

<UNKNOWN>: Hugh Lewin will assist you in presenting your testimony. Over to you Hugh.

MR LEWIN: Thank you Mr Chair. Professor van Zyl, thanks very much for coming. We know that you have made a submission as part of a larger submission and you are going to lead us through a shorter submission this afternoon.  Before doing so I think it would be useful for people here, particularly our new visitors, if you could just explain how you got here, who are you?  Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. This submission was made formally by the Media Monitoring Project of which I am a member.  My own personal involvement stems from the fact that I wrote a column for the Star for some 16 years from 1976 to 1992 called John van Zyl and the Box, which means that I really had a quite unparalleled opportunity to monitor the SABC for 16 years and also probably lost my mind doing it, I must say.

MR LEWIN: We'll judge that.

UNKNOWN: But in terms of the columns that I wrote and in terms of my involvement with SABC TV particularly and in terms of being an academic at Wits with a very keen interest in human rights and the media, I paid SATV a particular sort of attention.

MR LEWIN: Thanks very much, would you like to take us through your presentation now?