Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-26

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Do you mean during the attack?  Will you please repeat your question?

MR BERGER: I'm not suggesting that you were part of the attack, I'm saying, at that time, June 1992, did you know many people in Boipatong?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: No, I would request you not to refer to me about the time of the attack.  What I said is that I knew people from Boipatong prior to the attack.  Just before the politics I grew up in that place and I knew quite a number of people.  Please don't refer me to the attack because I was not present but I know the people from Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Mr Mdiniso, please listen to my question.  You say in your affidavit, which was signed by you in 1998, June 1998, you say
"I know many people in Boipatong."
Is that correct?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: The people who are residing at Boipatong, I know the residents, the real residents of Boipatong, not people from KwaZulu Natal.  I was also a tenant at Boipatong.  I did not own a house there, I was just a tenant.

MR BERGER: And these people that you know who are living in Boipatong, they were also living in Boipatong at the time of the attack, am I right?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: You mean during the attack?  There was a meeting at Zone 7 on the 22nd.  I'm not sure whether the month was July because that place is far away.  On our way from that meeting, when we went to the hostel at Sebokeng, the hostel was closed.  They told us the Zulus were not welcome.
	The following day on the 23rd, there were pamphlets that were distributed all over the place, in the houses in the townships.  The pamphlets were saying that the Zulus were not welcome.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mdiniso, please, you're going on a long story.  You're being asked a very simple question.  it's really a simple matter.  Mr Berger is asking you that as at June 1992, is it correct that you knew many people who were involved or were living in Boipatong, simple as that, yes or no?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, I knew people there.

MR BERGER: Thank you, Mr Mdiniso, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR STRYDOM: Just one question.
	During 1992, you were working at Iscor, is that correct?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: And you worked shifts, is that right?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, I was working three shifts.

MR STRYDOM: And some people that worked at Iscor lived in Boipatong, is that correct?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: The people who were working for Iscor, among them there were people who were residing at Boipatong.

MR STRYDOM: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

MS PRETORIUS: No questions, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MS PRETORIUS

MR DA SILVA: No questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

MS TANZER: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

ADV SIGODI: No questions, Chair.

MR SIBANYONI: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mdiniso, you do understand that this Committee only has the power to grant amnesty to persons who have committed an offence with a political motive.

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is what I got to understand when I arrived here.

CHAIRPERSON: As we understand your evidence you never committed any act of violence in relation to the Boipatong massacre.

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: The only reason you came to this Committee was to tell the people of Boipatong that you are innocent?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is the reason, because in Court I was found guilty.  I wanted to apply for amnesty and to clear my name.  Among my brothers and the people of Boipatong they should know that I'm innocent.

CHAIRPERSON: What was done by the High Court cannot be undone by this Committee.  If you persist in your innocence, only the Appeal Court has the power to undo what was done by the High Court.  Do you understand that?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, I do understand that.

CHAIRPERSON: We can only consider an application if you consider yourself to be guilty of the massacre or any act in relation to the massacre at Boipatong.  Do you understand that?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: What you are telling us is that you didn't do anything wrong?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything arising?

MR STRYDOM: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

MR MALINDI: Chairperson, may I ask one question?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MALINDI: Mr Mdiniso, did you share your room with anyone at Kwamadala?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, there were some people.

MR MALINDI: Who were they?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: It was Benseni Ntuli.

MR MALINDI: Anyone else?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: The other one's surname was Shandu.  I cannot remember the first name, perhaps it was Aaron Shandu or something else, but I cannot remember.

MR MALINDI: You say perhaps it was who Shandu?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes.

MR MALINDI: Was there anyone else in your room?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: No, there was no-one else.

MR MALINDI: Mr Ntuli, was he the one who helped with security at the gate?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes.

MR MALINDI: Now on the evening of the 17th of June 1992, did you become aware that these two other gentlemen left your room during that night or not?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Pardon?

MR MALINDI: Mr Ntuli and Shandu, were they in your room when you went to sleep?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: On that particular day they left me in the house.  Shandu was going to be on duty and Ntuli was going to be duty.  They were about to start at 6 o'clock.  They left me in the house.

MR MALINDI: The following morning, what time did you go to work yourself?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: I was to report at work at 2 o'clock.  I moved from Kwamadala hostel at about half past 12 on my way to work.

MR MALINDI: And that was two in the afternoon?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes.

MR MALINDI: And when you woke up in the morning, did you hear anyone walking around ordering residents to take out things that were stolen from Boipatong, to be burnt?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: No, I did not hear that, I heard that for the first time here.

MR MALINDI: And before you left for work, did you become aware that there was an attack in Boipatong, from your co-residents or not?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: No, I only got that information at work.  I heard that people died at Boipatong, they were attacked.  That is the information that I got when I was at work.

MR MALINDI: Thank you, Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MALINDI

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: No questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis?

MS CAMBANIS: Nothing thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mdiniso, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED