Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-30

MR PATEL: May it please you Mr Chairman I beg leave to call Mr Mandlinkosi Enoch Gitam Mnisi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mnisi which language would you prefer to use?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Zulu.

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: (sworn states)

MR PATEL: Mr Mnisi where were you born?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: In Ermelo.

MR PATEL: And have you lived all your life in the Ermelo area?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes that is correct.

MR PATEL: Now at the time of the commission of the offences for which you claim amnesty, what was your occupation?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I was working at Checkers Stores.

MR PATEL: And at present what is your occupation?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I'm unemployed.

MR PATEL: At the time of the commission of the offences for which you claim amnesty did you belong to any political party?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes that is correct.

MR PATEL: Which party is that?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I was a member of the ANC Youth League and SANCO which we regarded as a political organisation at the time.

MR PATEL: We've also heard evidence that you were a member of one of the self defence units, is that correct?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: That is correct.

MR PATEL: Now according to the schedule on page 22 of Volume 1 you claim amnesty for the following offences.  Firstly the illegal possession of two hand grenades.

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: That is correct.

MR PATEL: You also claim amnesty for the attempted murder and damage to property by hurling a hand grenade in the direction of members of the South African Police and the Black Cat gang.  Do you confirm that?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes I confirm that.

MR PATEL: When did that take place?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: That was in 1992.   I'm rectifying the statement of the first applicant - that was in 1992 - of the previous witness that his one - that was in 1992, September.

MR PATEL: Okay and finally you claim amnesty for the attempted murder and damage to property by hurling one hand grenade in the direction of members of the South African Police.  Do you confirm that?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes I do confirm that.

MR PATEL: Could you just briefly describe to the Committee the circumstances - as I understand it it's all basically one incident.  Could you explain the circumstances leading to the commission of these offences?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: On the 4th September 1992 there was a night vigil of one of our comrades Reggie Masugu.  As far as I know Reggie was killed by the Black Cat members.  They abandoned him somewhere in the Extension and for the whole week we've been preparing for all these things.  The police did nothing about the matter, no one was arrested.  They would do anything in the township and they even threatened us but as member of the STU I was effected.  On the 4th it happened that I was told I was with comrade Charlie Majola, I received a telephone call saying that the Black Cats were planning to attack and it became evident that they were in the company of police.  I told myself that I don't need a command here, I've got to defend the members of the ANC and the ANC Youth League and SANCO.
	I contacted comrade Biso.  I took four hand grenades and I gave the other one to Charlie and I was left with two.  I knew very well that we were in - it was obvious that in the Black township sometimes we used to run short of electricity.  I decided to switch off the street light so that they will think that there is a problem, a technical problem and the people who didn't move.  We moved from the direction of the bar and we saw there standing someone and even the Police Casspir was there.  I instructed Charlie to throw the first bomb and we had to get inside the houses next to Tembisa Stores.  Charlie threw the first grenade but we had intervals, there were intervals in between because we didn't have enough ammunition.  I decided that since we didn't have enough ammunition we've got to get some firearms somewhere else because the people had automatic rifles because they were shooting throughout the night.  Charlie threw the other bomb at the centre.  There was a Police Casspir next to the advertising board.  Fortunately that did not explode. 
	In the morning at about 5 a.m.....[intervention]

MR PATEL: What time did these first three hand grenades get thrown, approximately what time?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: The other three hand grenades were thrown during the night.  The last one was in the morning at 7 a.m.  Charlie threw two and I threw only one grenade but it was very dark and during the day it was brighter that's why I can say that only three hand grenades were used during that and because it was dark.  I saw a need to disarm these people.  There was only one way to do that was to throw the hand grenade either inside the Police Casspir or outside.  Because of the speed that they were driving I decided to throw the hand grenade under the Police Casspir so as to lose direction but the driver managed to hold and he was successful.

MR PATEL: Mr Mnisi, during the night how far away were the South African Police and the Black Cats people from where you were?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: I can't calculate the distance in metres but I think the distance was about from where I am right now to that corner times two - they were at a distance.  From where I am now and at that point where the corner of the podium is times two.

MR PATEL: Approximately 50/60 metres Mr Chairman.  So you could see them?  Could you see them?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes I could see them but they were at a distance.  I couldn't come closer to them but I could see them.  I could see that there were Black Cats armed with pangas and the Police armed with big rifles but I couldn't distinguish between an R5 or whatever.

MR PATEL: Yes and it was your belief that they were going to attack the vigil is that correct?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Yes I believed so that they were going to attack the night vigil.  What made me to believe so it's because the Black Cats who were not residing at Tembisa so I knew that there was trouble when I saw them there.

MR PATEL: How did you as a member of the ANC view people who were part of the South African Police, the IFP or the Black Cats?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Please repeat the question?

MR PATEL: You were a member of the ANC, correct?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: Correct.

MR PATEL: And how did you view people who belonged to the South African Police or the IFP or members of the Black Cats?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: All those, to me they looked like one family and they were enemies.  They were ANC enemies.

MR PATEL: In committing these offences for which you claim amnesty did you - were you motivated on anything personal, any malice or did you get any money, any gain out of it?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: No, that was not my intention.

MR PATEL: And in respect of these offences for which you claim amnesty were you prosecuted for any of these offences?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: No, that never happened.

MR PATEL: I have no further questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black do you have any questions?

MR BLACK: I have no questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kemp?

MR KEMP: I have no questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs van der Walt?

UNKNOWN: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Mnisi from whom did you receive this telephone call?

MANDLINKOSI ENOCH GITAM MNISI: It was from some people who were deployed in some places in the township though I don't know their names but I knew they were coming from an organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: Just one short question Mr Mnisi.  Your participation in the STU, is it correct that the STU were established for political reasons to defend the community is that correct?