Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

MR DLAMINI: Where did you work?  Was it Vlakplaas only, or were you sent to some also places?

WITNESS:   No, I was travelling all around South Africa.  I was in East London.  There is a farm that I know.  They talk about Vlakplaas only, but you have to know other farms as well.  There are two others here in Durban, right here in KwaZulu-Natal.

MR DLAMINI: Which ones are the farms in KwaZulu-Natal?  Which  farms are those?

WITNESS:   I don't know quite well, but they call it Waterlog.  I know it where it is, I know its location, and there's this other one as well next to Umlaas Road when you branch to this road.  I was there in

MR DLAMINI: a big house, occupying a big house.  That's when Mbeki and Sisulu were - Sisulu, Mandela, Mswalethi, Govan Mbeki, Kathrada and Goldberg, and the seventh one - did I count Mandela?

MR DLAMINI: Yes, you have counted those.  I am lost now.  I don't know why you are mentioning those, because we are talking about farms here.  Now, where do they fit, those people?

WITNESS:   No, I want to tell you that they were released from prison.  That's when I got a chance to resign.

MR DLAMINI: You said your job as an askari was to infiltrate.  What is that, what is infiltrate?

WITNESS:   No, we have operations.  You know, when we operate, when we are coming to arrest you as a terrorist when you shoot we shoot back.

MR DLAMINI: How would you tell if a person is a terrorist?

WITNESS: There is an album, we had an album.  I also have a picture in that very album.  That album had all the pictures of people who were terrorists.  You know, people will go there.  If they were missing their sons they will go to the police station to have a look at the album, and that's when they will know if their sons were terrorists or what.  I was there as well, and my name was there.  All the pictures had names.  Now I was showed - they showed me that album, and people were - people in that album, some were coming from Cape and wherever, everywhere in South Africa.

MR DLAMINI: Beyond looking at the album what were you doing?     /---   There

MR DLAMINI: ---   There were traitors that were known that will send you to go and fight, and when you get there you will be shot and die.  We were using that album and looking at the picture as direction.  The picture will give us better

MR DLAMINI: direction, and maybe it will happen it's a person I know in the picture, and we will therefore infiltrate and try to go around the taverns and shebeens around your area and book at the hotels and find out that you are around the neighbourhood.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you very much, Mr Mwelase.  According to your statement you say your aim for coming here to the Commission and rendering this testimony, you want the community to know how you were used as an askari, and be given a second chance.  Is that what you are saying?

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR DLAMINI: And again that you do miss your work as a soldier and your work as a prison warder.  What else would you like the Commission to help you, in what way?

WITNESS:   What I want from this Truth Commission is that I should be known by the community here in Vryheid, and the neighbours as well, even outskirts of Vryheid, that I was coerced, forced to work.  I think this is the girl who was a traitor.  I left her in Swaziland.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Mwelase, we've heard that, and we are clear that you want the community to know that you were used.

WITNESS:  And I haven't disclosed many things here because your questions also are disturbing me as well.  There are many and lots of things I would like to disclose in this Commission, but due to time - and there are people right there who could be saying, "There he is."  You know, here there is security, but outside there are no police,  there's no security, maybe anything could happen, lo and behold.  Your questions are keeping me short in explaining.

MR DLAMINI: I think we have heard, or perhaps we've seen this

MR DLAMINI: picture you've laid to this Commission, but my last question.  As I am listening to your evidence you are a person who we may refer to as one that was tortured, and whose human rights were violated as an askari as well, but what I would like to ask is that are you prepared to admit an application to the Amnesty Committee?

WITNESS:   No, I only have to ask for amnesty from the community or the people of South Africa, because even now I can't be employed.

MR DLAMINI: No, that's - here we are just looking at how your human rights were violated, but when you go beyond us now, as you also were an askari, and violating other people's rights, now that falls under the Amnesty Committee.  It may be wise for you to apply for amnesty, and be careful now because there is a D-day on the 10th of May this year.  After the 10th of May they won't be accepting any applications thereafter.  Now, you want to be careful about that, especially if you want to take that decision as a former askari, because after that time your application won't be accepted if you want to apply for amnesty.

WITNESS:   How will I apply for amnesty, because I don't know?

MR DLAMINI: We will explain to you.  If you are willing please contact us before we leave Vryheid.  Even during lunch hour or even after the hearing this afternoon you may come to us and we'll explain to you how to go about applying for amnesty.

WITNESS:   Let me turn this thing around.  I  would like to see this traitor, as to how much was he paid and how many did he sell or spy on?  I know that there was a traitor behind me, and how much was he paid for that and how many did he lead into this?  And the last thing I

MR DLAMINI: would like to say this.  You - I would like to say everything at the court of law.  I am certain that the Amnesty Committee - I was a leader in MK, and I trained many other soldiers in MK, and they came back and they were successful fighters ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 2 - continues on Side A, Tape 4) ... by the traitors in prison.  I want you to investigate also how they used me.  And there are many that I arrested.  Of the two that I arrested I could call them in some ways.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Mwelase, we have written down everything here, and we've written your request.  I have just advised you what ways to go about and when you can get in touch with us whilst we are still here in Vryheid.  I hand you over to the Chairlady.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax, do you have any questions?

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairlady.  I have a few questions.  What was your MK name?

WITNESS:   I am Ephraim Mabwiya.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... I didn't hear very carefully.

WITNESS:  The-Boers-Have-Shitted.

MR LAX: What other names did you use as an askari?

WITNESS:   When I was coming back from Angola they were calling me Gringo.  That's a Swahili name.

MR LAX: Okay, so those were your three ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Ja, these are our MK names outside.  And then the one ... (intervention)

MR LAX: What MK names did you use inside?

WITNESS:   Ephraim Mabwiya, The-Boers-Have-shitted, and Chattanooga ...  (inaudible) ... reference by that time, because we didn't that there was an ID ... (inaudible) ... so it was written this, Jerry Mbulelo Hadebe, working ... (intervention)

MR LAX: Just hang on a second.  Okay.

WITNESS:   In Ivory

MR LAX: Chemicals in Newcastle.

MR LAX: Yes.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Now, after you'd been arrested for a while you became an askari, correct?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't immediately become an askari.

MR LAX: I said after ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   I was forced.

MR LAX: Yes, but as an askari you would have used other names as well, not just your own name.

WITNESS:   People who knew me outside knew me as Gringo.  They referred to me as Gringo especially in Vlakplaas.  Those with whom I was in exile they called me all those names, Mwelase, Gringo.