Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

MR SMIT: No there were other people who were also present, they had come from other parts of the country.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were there many people?

MR SMIT: We were approximately 30.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was evidence that the women were moved to Ottosdal, is that correct?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.  The women were not happy about living in the bush and we moved them to Mr De Wet's farm in Ottosdal where they resided.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know anything about whether the Army would have been involved at that stage with this entire operation?

MR SMIT: According to my knowledge, yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know about the Army bases in Zeerust?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What would they have done?

MR SMIT: The Army base in Zeerust was an old Infantry Base and they would have provided all our armed vehicles.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who said that?

MR SMIT: That came directly from the Generals in Staff, among others Gen Chris van der Heever, the Combat General.

MS VAN DER WALT: Okay, the women had been moved to Ottosdal and the men, where did they go then?

MR SMIT: After that, the men left for Mr Leon van der Merwe's farm where we began the whole thing.

MS VAN DER WALT: This Leon van der Merwe, what was his position in the AWB?

MR SMIT: At that stage, he was the Head of the Ystergarde.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was his relationship, was he quite involved with AWB Headquarters?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct, he worked for AWB Headquarters.

MS VAN DER WALT: And Gen Prinsloo?

MR SMIT: He also worked for AWB Headquarters.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was evidence that this group of people then left for the game farm?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you receive any orders at that game farm?

MR SMIT: Basically we were told that we should prepare ourselves and our equipment, that we should be ready to make war and that we should be prepared.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who said that?

MR SMIT: Nico Prinsloo.

MS VAN DER WALT: The AWB members would usually take an oath of loyalty, is that correct?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Could you remember that oath?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Could you say it to the Committee?

MR SMIT: If I walk ahead, follow me, if I turn around, shoot me.   So help me God.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you understand with this oath when it said if I turn around, shoot me?  What was that to you?

MR SMIT: That would mean if I wanted to retreat as a coward and did not want to fight any longer, that I should be shot.

MS VAN DER WALT: This order which you received there from Gen Prinsloo that there would be no turning back, what did you understand by that?

MR SMIT: That we were there for good.

MS VAN DER WALT: To do what?

MR SMIT: To make war.

MS VAN DER WALT: Is it correct that there were many other people from other regions at that game farm?

MR SMIT: Yes, amongst others from Natal.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know whether apart from the game farm, there were any other places in Transvaal or in the entire region, where there were people who had also come together?

MR SMIT: That is correct.  Koster, at some or other holiday resort approximately 1 000 people had gathered there.

MS VAN DER WALT: That would also be during that same time?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know of any other groups who had gathered?

MR SMIT: Yes, I don't know exactly which places they gathered at, but I know that they gathered throughout the entire country.

MS VAN DER WALT: So therefore not only in the Transvaal?

MR SMIT: No, not only in the Transvaal.

MS VAN DER WALT: What were your duties during this gathering at the game farm?

MR SMIT: I was in charge of all guards and guarding systems who were supposed to guard the farm.

MS VAN DER WALT: These people who had moved along to the game farm, could they move in and out freely?

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

MS VAN DER WALT: What happened?

MR SMIT: There had to be special permission before you could leave the game farm.  The reason for that was that we were afraid that any information or planning that we had undertaken, could be leaked out to the Police or other agents of the government.

MS VAN DER WALT: Headquarters in Ventersdorp during that period in time, do you know whether Eugene Terreblanche was present there?

MR SMIT: I wouldn't be able to tell you.

MS VAN DER WALT: On the Saturday, that is the Saturday before the elections, you were on the game farm at that stage?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did any planning take place on the night before?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What happened?

MR SMIT: Among others it was planned to steal 4 x 4 vehicles, the only reason for that was that the terrain upon which we were moving, was not suitable for the usual type of vehicle and we needed other vehicles.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was there any communication between the game farm Camp and any other persons outside the camping area?

MR SMIT: We struggled to establish a communication system and the only other communications which we could establish, would be with Nico Prinsloo who had to drive to AWB Headquarters from the farm all the time, to obtain information.

MS VAN DER WALT: He was on permanent basis?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know of any person living at Koesterfontein?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who were they?

MR SMIT: Abraham Myburgh who lived on the farm at Koesterfontein.  That is where the explosives were stored.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Smit, your evidence was where you arrived at the game farm, that Sunday, the Sunday before the election, you were also at the game farm?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What happened there that evening?

MR SMIT: There was a closed meeting held by myself, Nico Prinsloo, Leon van der Merwe and Abie Fourie.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know Mr Johan du Plessis, also an applicant in this matter?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.  He was also present at this meeting.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was discussed at this meeting?

MR SMIT: At this meeting it was basically strategy and the planning of this whole operation that we wanted to execute and we did the final planning.

MS VAN DER WALT: To what operation are you referring to?

MR SMIT: That would be the so-called warfare.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was decided?

MR SMIT: We decided that we would only target black taxi ranks, we will not go into white areas to unstable that areas, in order to disrupt the whole election.

CHAIRPERSON: How would that have happened?

MR SMIT: That would have happened through bomb plannings.

CHAIRPERSON: So the whole bomb planing process was targeted at black people?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.  Yes, it was directly targeted towards them.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

MR SMIT: If you look at the old dispensation, they were the enemy.

CHAIRPERSON: How?

MR SMIT: That was how we believed it to be.

CHAIRPERSON: Who said that?

MR SMIT: No one said that.  Every person felt like that in his heart.

CHAIRPERSON: So the whole attack was based on racism?

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: But how does it work then?

MR SMIT: The new government is an ANC government.  The ANC government exists 99 percent out of blacks, so the election had to be disrupted in order for black people not to take over the government.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I am talking about the enemy and that the black people were the enemy.  That was your belief.  How can it not be racism?  It is based on the colour of a person's skin?

MR SMIT: If you want to look at the colour of the skin.

CHAIRPERSON: No, that is what you testified?

MR SMIT: If white people would come into this area where we would plant these bombs, he is white, left or right, we are sorry for him.  In no war you find friends.
	The people who fight in this war, are your friends.  Nowhere were there racism involved.