Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1997-06-23

GEORGE BIZOS: Very briefly Mr Chairperson, the issue is not when the applicants sent the papers but when we got them, and the Committee knows.
	The other is that, I am not being original, it has been said before, but I just want to say to the attorney for the applicants that flattery will not get them very far, because I actually believe that counsel should really have a basis in order to conduct a, a factual basis, a full factual basis, before he can conduct any meaningful cross-examination.  
	It is correct Mr Chairperson that we asked an investigator to look into the accounts of the applicants and Mrs Derby-Lewis, it's a legitimate enquiry.  I am perplexed how a copy of the letter came to be in their possession, a letter written to our agent to make enquiries about their accounts finds itself in their possession, but that's by the way.
	Finally I want to make this broad submission.  If this application for a postponement cannot be properly argued because of the state of the documents, can you imagine where we are going to go to if we have to struggle to find the relevant document whilst cross-examination is taking place?  I invited counsel for the other side to have a pre-hearing conference where we could possibly iron these out, my invitation was not accepted.  One hopes that if the matter is in fact postponed in the discretion of the Committee that we can do what is usually done in order that we should be on the same wavelength with members of the Committee when we are arguing the case.  
	Even on questions such as, whose case are we going to hear first, Mr Walus or Mr Derby-Lewis?  I would like to make submissions in relation to that having regard to their respective positions, but these are matters which shouldn't have to be argued, we should talk about it and come to an arrangement so that when we come here the documents are ready, witnesses are available, we can have the order in which witnesses are going to be called, we will want subpoenas to be issued on a number of people whom we will want to examine.  This is an inquiry and they will not be our witnesses, in fact we expect them to be hostile to our interests.  So that all these matters will have to be arranged for a proper hearing to take place.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you make any comment on the suggestion made by Counsel that there are indications in the papers that your clients real wish is to see that these applications do not proceed at all and that you are going to resort to delaying tactics?

GEORGE BIZOS: Our time is as valuable as his, and we do not hold the view, and certainly our clients who were responsible for piloting this Act through Parliament, that it should be frustrated.  There is no desire to deprive the applicants of a right to be heard.  The only thing that we are asking for is that we should be given an opportunity to be heard in order to oppose their application like we are entitled to do.  There is no vestige of evidence, and our offer to do it during August, with respect, negates that suggestion.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe is there anything you wish to add?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Nothing to add Mr Chairman thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee would like to take a short adjournment to consider the matter and we hope to give a decision if it is at all possible before too long.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION
	Mr George Bizos, on behalf of Mrs Hani and the African National Congress, has made an application for a postponement of these proceedings.
	It has been indicated that the South African Communist Party, because of the general background to this case, is a vitally interested party in the outcome of these proceedings.  
	The Committee has decided that this application is to be postponed.  We have discussed the matter with the counsel for the applicants and the counsel for the respondents and we have come to the firm conclusion that without any further postponements, for whatever reason, this application will commence on the 11th of August and will carry on until it is finished.
	To Mr Derby-Lewis and Mr Janus Walus, if this works as a hardship to you, I am sorry that it has to be so, but I assure you that this application will be proceeded with and we will deal with it until it is concluded.  Once again I am sorry that it has caused you anxiety and inconvenience.
	Steps will be taken to ensure that the Communist Party is officially notified of this postponement.  
	Counsel on both sides have also agreed that at least a week before the hearing they will meet and sort out the documents so that the documents we have before us, and any other papers that might be filed on behalf of those who oppose this application, are then properly before the Committee when it meets on the 11th of August.
	To anybody else who has been inconvenienced by this postponement I say it is unfortunate that this has to be so, and we hope that this difficulty will not arise again.
	I am told that a representative of the Communist Party is present, she is aware that this matter has now been adjourned until the 11th of August and she must take steps to ensure that whatever representations they propose making in this regard, that they will do so timeously.
	Mr Bizos will you be appearing for Mrs Hani and the African National Congress?

GEORGE BIZOS: The African National Congress is supportive of Mrs Hani, but we are not on record as representing the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: We are on record as representing Mrs Hani and the South African Communist Party, and no notice need to be given because Mr Jerome Cronin is before the Committee and we represent them and there will be no problem about that.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  Thank you.  This application is accordingly adjourned to the 11th of August.  The venue for the adjourned hearing will be notified in due course.  We hope that this venue is available.  However, that's a little detail which will be worked out, what is important is the date of the hearing.
	I accordingly adjourn this meeting.
HEARING ADJOURNS