Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: The year was 1988. When I went to the hospital it was around July, and when I was assaulted it was just after Winnie Mandela's house got burnt, the very same month that Winnie Mandela's house was set alight.  I don't remember quite well as to which month it was, but around that time.

MR VALLY: Your brother who you refer to as Thole, was he a member of Mandela United Football Club?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Yes, that is correct.

MR VALLY: Do you remember in 1988 when he was arrested, can you give us some details on this incident?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: The police came on Wednesday at our house, in the evening, to tell us that Thole was arrested and they requested his clothes.  And my mother asked as to why he was arrested and they said no, there is nothing bad that we have arrested him for, we just want him to give us an explanation about Winnie Mandela's house.  And my mother asked as to which court he was going to.  They answered back and said the Protea Court and we gave them the clothes.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of whether he was at Protea police station and detained there or whether he actually appeared at Protea court?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: The police came and told us that he was at Protea and he will be going to Protea court as well.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of in connection with which matter this was that he would be appearing in court for?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: No, I wasn't aware, I don't know.

MR VALLY: How long after the police took him from your house was your brother released?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: He was arrested on Wednesday, and Thursday he was released.  Friday he was at home and Saturday he passed away.

MR VALLY: Do you know the circumstances of his death?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: On Friday night we were with Thole at home, talking.  My mother was not at home and Thole said to me, my sister, you see as you are expectant please bring a baby boy, I don't want a girl here at home.  If you are carrying a baby girl, we will just desert you and take you to your boyfriend's house, and we were joking over the issue.
 On Saturday morning Thole came and we were happy. And in the afternoon he said he was going to a night vigil in Pimville and I asked which night vigil was it, because you know my mother is not around, and why are you going to the night vigil.  And he said, no, it's one comrade's night vigil that I am going to attend.  And I said, please Thole take care of yourself and be careful.
 It was around nine at night and we heard a gunshot because we were not too far away where Thole died.  It was myself and Sisi, my cousin.  And we were so scared after hearing that gunshot because the way it was going on and on it was like it was shots just around the corner.  After a few minutes we heard knocks at the door, and it was Thole's friends, and they said, we do not know what we shall say to you, and I said, what's happening, what's wrong, and they said, Thole is late.  And I asked who?  They said, it is Sizwe.  I said, Sizwe?  They said, it is Sizwe, and they said they saw Sizwe and Buthile, who is another member of the Football Club there at Brandfort.  
 And I left the house and ran to the scene of crime and I realised and discovered that Thole was there and he was shot in the head, and there was a hole and the whole side from his left eye was open throughout to the back.  And I left the scene and went back home to get a blanket or something to cover the body.  My mother was not at home and I did not know what to do.  I took my own blanket and went to the scene to cover the body.  And Dudu came and said, Girl, we cannot leave the corpse lying there in the street, where is your mother?  I told her that my mother is in Mfulu at my grandmother's place.
 I'll try to carry on.

CHAIRPERSON: ... to have a real record of what is happening, but I think that I allow you to do whatever you are doing if you show sensitivity, and I just think, I mean, that it wasn't particularly so now.

MR SOLLER: Mr Chairperson, Mr Miller and myself act on behalf of Mrs Dlamini. May she stand down for five minutes.  She is clearly emotional, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Let me just ask her because she - do you need a break, a short break, or you think you will continue?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: I will try to carry on and continue.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR VALLY: Miss Dlamini, you mention that you were told that two people, you mentioned Sizwe and I think it was, I didn't catch the second name clearly, do you know the full names of the persons that you were told were responsible for shooting your brother?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: I know Sizwe Sithole and Butike, I just know that he is Butike, I don't know his full name and the surname.

MR VALLY: Can you tell us more about Sizwe Sithole, who he is?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Sizwe resides in the next street from where our house is and they were going to the same school with Thole until they joined the Football Club together, and they were always together with Thole.

MR VALLY: Is this the same Mr Sithole who died in detention in John Vorster Square in January 1990?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Yes, it is him.

MR VALLY: Who did you get the information from as to who was responsible for Thole's death?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: It was Jabu Sithole and Ratodi.....

MR VALLY: You say Ratodi, is this Leratodi Ikaneng?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Leratodi Ikaneng.

MR VALLY: Was the fact of your brother's death reported to the police?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Yes, my cousin went to report to the police station in Orlando.

MR VALLY: Was anyone subsequently charged for your brother's death?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Since they took the clothes we've never been called to the court of law to listen or to do anything because Sizwe himself was arrested around the time.  He fled but he was arrested with regards to Thole's matter.  Subsequently I heard he died at the John Vorster Square.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of any inquest held into your brother's death?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Yes, there was, although we were not informed, because the Protea police came to tell us that Butile was also arrested because he came to fetch us from home to show us Sizwe in White City where he went to.

MR VALLY: Are you aware whether Mr Leratodi Ikaneng ever reported this matter to the police as well as your cousin?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Can you please repeat your question?

MR VALLY: You advise us that the murder of your brother, Thole, was reported to the police by your cousin.  My question is, are you aware of whether Mr Leratodi Ikaneng himself also reported this death to the police?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: I am not quite sure about that.  I just heard him saying that he was from the police station.

MR VALLY: Did he tell you what he was doing at the police station?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: He did say that he went to the police station because Thole died in his presence to give a statement.

MR VALLY: Did you have any other contact with Mrs Madikizela-Mandela after your brother was killed?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: No.

MR VALLY: Can you advise us whether Thole was also known as Tony?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: They were calling him Thole. I don't know his other name that they were using.

MR VALLY: What was the view of the community in your area regarding the Mandela United Football Club?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: People were scared to air their views about the Football Club, that they were not quite comfortable about it.

MR VALLY: Why was this?

PHUMLILE MAGGIE DLAMINI: Because they loved Winnie and they trusted Winnie as a mother who was there for the community.

MR VALLY: Was this your view as well?