Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: We call to the stage now our next two witnesses, Mkhonto Mfazwe and Monwabisi Maseti.  We have asked you to come to the - we have asked you to come to the stage together because from reading the statements that you have made, we are aware that your experiences are fairly similar and that your testimonies will complement one another, so we welcome you and thank you very much for coming.
May I ask you to stand and swear the oath please.  First one and then the other.  
MKOHNTO MFAZWE  Duly sworn states
MONWABISI MASETI   Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Advocate Potgieter will facilitate your testimonies.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Maseti, Mr Mfazwe, good morning again and welcome.  I think will start with Mr Maseti, you are in front of the microphone, so we will listen to your evidence first and then we will deal with Mr Mfazwe.
 Now as the Chairperson has indicated - your - you are both from Noupoort and your experiences are very, very much identical.  Happened also roughly at about the same time and that is why we've got you both together, but we will start with you Mr Maseti.  
 Your first experience was during 1985 when you were detained in Noupoort.  I will deal with that experience first and then move to this one.  Can you tell us briefly - in 1985 were you in involved in the community structures in Noupoort, and if so what role were you playing and which structures were you involved in.

MONWABISI MASETI: I was involved in the Noupoort Youth Congress - the abbreviation if NOYCO.  It started in 1985.  I was a secretary - public secretary.

ADV POTGIETER: While you were holding that position of publicity secretary of Noupoort Youth Congress - NOYCO - you were detained by the police in Noupoort, is that correct.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, it is so.  I was detained for fourteen days.  I slept in Noupoort for one day.  The rest of the days I spent in Middleburg.

ADV POTGIETER: Now who detained you - which police detained you.  Do you know them.

MONWABISI MASETI: It was the security police from Oudsthoorn.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you first held at Noupoort and eventually you were taken to Middleburg.  Now during that detention - that fourteen day detention - would you like to tell us what happened to you.

MONWABISI MASETI: In 1985 there were no problems.  I t is in 1986 that the problems started.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] period of detention - in 1985 - were you assaulted.

MONWABISI MASETI: No I was not assaulted at all.  Yes, I was questioned.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] were you questioned.

MONWABISI MASETI: They wanted information about  me chairing meetings and having spoken at funerals.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you also questioned  about the United Democratic Front - UDF - and it's officials in Noupoort.

MONWABISI MASETI: I was asked about the UDF, because NOYCO was an affiliated group of the UDF.

ADV POTGIETER: I just go to bring this to your attention - just for you to deal with - it might be a mistake that has crept into your statement, but from the notes at my  disposal, there is an allegation that you were beaten at the police station during your detention in 1985 - in fact with a sjambok.  Is that - is that not during 1985 detention.

MONWABISI MASETI: It is so.  I was beaten up in 1985.  I have made a mistake.

ADV POTGIETER: Now according to the statement - just to refresh your memory a bit further - you were questioned and the police also wanted to know about the UDF and you didn't answer them.  You refuse to answer them at first and that resulted in you being beaten.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, it is sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay that is 1985.  Let's move on to 1986 which you have actually indicated that that was the one that was quite problematic, compared to 1985, which was not so bad.  Perhaps before we go to 1986 - let me just ask you - you were detailed for fourteen days in total in 1985.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, it is so.  Yes, I was at school.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you manage to move back into school and did you manage to continue with your studies in 1985.

MONWABISI MASETI: I was not able to continue with my studies.

ADV POTGIETER: That spell of detention interrupted you studies in 1985.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you go back to school in 1986 or what happened.

MONWABISI MASETI: I did not go back to school in 1986.  I went to Johannesburg.  I stayed there for two months.  I then worked for the UDF.  I went to conferences, Cape Town, Johannesburg, all over.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you ever get back to your studies or did you have to give up your studies all together.

MONWABISI MASETI: I did continue after 1986.

ADV POTGIETER: And whilst we're talking about that - did you manage to complete all your studies or how far did you get with that.

MONWABISI MASETI: I matriculated.  After matriculating I went to Technikon.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct]

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, did complete it sit.

ADV POTGIETER: What do you do at present.

MONWABISI MASETI: I am unemployed.

ADV POTGIETER: Are you still living in Noupoort at this stage.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you for that information.  Now let's go - let's look at 1986 which was the more difficult detention.  You were again detained in 1986 and you were held on Middleburg.  Is that correct.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, when the state of emergency was declared.  That is when I was detained.

ADV POTGIETER: You were held at Middleburg.

MONWABISI MASETI: I was taken to Noupoort police station.  From there they took us to Middleburg.  There was twelve of us.

ADV POTGIETER: Now at Middleburg, you were interrogated.  Can you tell us who interrogated you at Middleburg - which policemen.

MONWABISI MASETI: Two policemen took us two vans.  They drove us to Middleburg police station.  When we asked the police station why they had arrested us - they said no we will hear at Middleburg.  When we got there, they took photographs of us.
A security police from Oudsthoorn was involved.  When we got to the prison in Middleburg, they said they detaining us for forty-eight hours.  We stayed the forty-eight hours, after that the Major that was in charge, he told us that the Act that we have been arrested under  was no longer active.  
After the fourteen days, the Major in charge yet again told us that he received a fax - he said that the Act that we'd been arrested under is no longer functional.  At the prison a security policeman from Oudsthoorn came - he questioned us.  After he questioned us, he - I was taken into a car.  They had put a plastic bag over my face.  They took me a place - I think it was a farm, I was not sure.  They tortured me there.  They put me in water.  When I was almost totally suffocated, they would take out the plastic bag.  After that they took me back into the prison.  
A UDF lawyer came, he questioned me about how we were handled at the prison.  I told them that I had been assaulted .  I had been assaulted by the police.  I think it was the police from Oudsthoorn that assaulted me.

ADV POTGIETER: Some of the names.

MONWABISI MASETI: No, I do not.  All I know is that they came from Oudsthoorn.  They did not introduce themselves to me.

ADV POTGIETER: The name Carels - does that sound familiar to you.

MONWABISI MASETI: That is the only security member I remember.  He was there.

ADV POTGIETER: And he was involved in your interrogation and the tortures.

MONWABISI MASETI: He was present when I was assaulted, but it is the Oudsthoorn police that beat me up.

ADV POTGIETER: You were actually taken out of the prison and taken to what you think was a farm to be tortured and to be thrown in the water.

MONWABISI MASETI: Yes, it is so.

ADV POTGIETER: What was the effect of that on your health.

MONWABISI MASETI: My ear was badly affected - my right ear is totally deaf.

ADV POTGIETER: And psychologically - has that left any scars on you.