Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: This conflict between AZAPO and UDF, it created an opportunity for the third force to come in.  The reason we've raised this point was that as I said earlier, that we would hear of attacks between AZAPO and we would never have been at that place.   The police used this opportunity as much as they possibly could.  If you were to listen to what has been stated, I remember one who was stating that the police said to her, we will take you to Maqina's house and then cut you into pieces.  Now those were some of the strategies that people were being said against one another.  The two organisations but at this time, this did not come out very clearly.
 The police didn't end there, they didn't end there.  There were many houses that were alleged to have been attacked by AZAPO when in fact AZAPO had never been even close to those houses.  I can give an example of this smear campaign or the so-called character assassination which was intensified.
 The police also had a role to play.  I remember Benjamin Skosana who was Regional President of AZAPO, came to my place one time and told me that two students came to my house and they said to me when they were at Soweto in the evening, they saw a certain Black policeman taking rounds in the township and he called them.
 The police called them and then there was a police, there was someone who as carrying a firearm, a gun and they said do you know us, do you know me and they were worried that if they said, yes, they knew, they will be in trouble, so they said, no they didn't know them.
 So this man said okay, I am reverend Maqina, you can go.  Benjamin was the one who was telling me the story, he is the Regional Chairperson of AZAPO.  
 All this time the policemen who were saying this was Tsungata.  How many people this policeman went to, posing, people who didn't know them posing as AZAPO or as Maqina -  how many other people, because we only know of that incident?
 Which is very sad to me because AZAPO is not coming to give its side because I am not representing AZAPO here, it is a pity that they are not coming themselves to put their side of the story.
 We told the ministers, the ministers of religion in PE all the time, at the beginning of this and all the time I had contact with the ministers here, like Reverend Tsonga, all the time, right at the beginning of this conflict and I would report to them, I would say this is the situation.  My wish then was that the children would get a place of safety which was a church hall because I was a family.  As a family man I couldn't afford to stay with so many people.
 But this didn't materialise, however, the ministers did try to arrange meetings and contact between the leadership of UDF and AZAPO to discuss peace, and I would be there.  I remember in the first truce which was on the 12th of May when some of AZAPO youngsters were going home.  They couldn't sleep that night, they were hit again.
 Zandile April was one of them, he died that time.  He was a member of AZASM, which was the student wing of AZAPO.  Hendricks Miela, was one of the kids that were attacked after a truce that we made on that same day.
 Dr Mongaliso Maqina knows of the manner in which the AZAPO youngsters were being chased around and hunted, even at workplaces.  Because at the time there was a nurse working for him who was Nospiwa Tsasjas.  She was taken out of her place of work at the surgery and he tried to protect this kid being attacked in front of him.  This nurse also ran to my place and we took her to hospital, she was in a terrible state.
 I am trying to show here the harassment and the hitting of the AZAPO youngsters from their homes and how they ran to my place.  Chairperson, I am not surprised that the majority of people whose kids were members of the UDF were talking, were mentioning my home, because it was the only place of safety that the AZAPO youngsters ran to.  It is therefor (indistinct) to whom something happened who was affected by the conflict who would tell you that they ran to Maqina's house because that is where they were indeed.
 It didn't end with the truce, our attempts to make peace, didn't end with the truce.  Because I remember one time reverend Soka and Koserigeka and Nangoia, it was on Saturday in May, they said it was okay, I could get the opportunity to talk to the community at the service that was going to at Denqwenqwe, the denominational service it was.
 Although the AZAPO members didn't want me to go I decided I wanted to go because there for me was an opportunity to the community exactly what was happening and why am I receiving and keeping AZAPO people but also wanting to get a suggestion from them as to the solution.
 I was accompanied to this meeting by 12 members of AZAPO.  Fortunately on that same morning, on that Sunday, Ishmun Kalvelha, the President of AZAPO came to Port  Elizabeth for other reasons, just to have a look at the condition here.  We asked him to accompany us so that he could talk to the community because at this stage the whole community was convinced that AZAPO was working hand in hand with the councillors and AZAPO was doing this.  This was the impression that was the perception of the community and we went to explain.
 And the person conducting the service was reverend Andile Mbeti.  We were not given the opportunity to speak.  We were not given the opportunity because the atmosphere, the atmosphere was that of tension, there was even songs, freedom songs, that was being sung and ministers got away very quickly and we were left alone, the ministers had gone and we were nearly killed there at Denqwenqwe.
 But we were saved by Mr Qweqwe and Mr Siwisa and Jimmy who opened the gate for us which was closed.  On our way out our bakkie was shepherded by thousands and thousands of this people, it was being shunted to Soweto.
 Fortunately it was the 24th of May, fortunately they forgot an opening through the ghetto direction and the driver went through that gap and there was a rain of stones, but they missed us, but those who were at the back of the bakkie, fell, because we didn't warn them.  One of them was Dumbana, the Chairperson of AZAPO.  His story is in the Herald of the 21st of May, where he was nearly necklaced and the necklace was already hung around his neck at Red House where Kalvelha pleaded with the UDF that they should talk to their supporters that they shouldn't treat AZAPO as a structure (tape starts) ... and again there was an attack even at that same church.
 And that is where we protected Mkozeli Jack because they wanted to hit him because how we could be attacked each time we tried to make peace.  I am trying to show the steps we took to make peace, because the perception is that we didn't want peace.  But very briefly Chairperson, the peace that eventually prevailed was in January, 1st of January 1986 and I was the one responsible for that.

DESMOND MPILO TUTU: I don't want to interrupt him, I am leading a delegation here, Truth and Reconciliation Commission to Pretoria.  I thought I may be able to sit through until - the flight is at twenty to twelve so I am very sorry because we came mainly for the Special hearing for yesterday but this one, we are doing it because we have to do it, because our constitution demands that at regular interval we should give reports to the President.
 I have to leave, I wish to apologise to all of you and to you Reverend Maqina, I am going with the Dr Boraine, he has gone, he has gone to fix arrangements for our tickets, I am very sorry.