Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1999-03-08

MR WILLS: (Cont)
	Sorry, to put it on record, the applicant's age at the time of the rape incident was 16 years.  Also, getting back to the question that was raised by Committee Member Judge Khampepe, the luring of Sikanye to the night vigil, clearly the Committee Member's recollection of events was more accurate than mine.  The incident, the incident occurred in that Thulani, the order was given by Mkehle to kill Thulani in order to lure Sikanye who was the target to the night vigil, and it was, he was going to be killed there.  He didn't come to the night vigil.  Then the younger brother was killed, the name of isn't on record and the applicant doesn't know the name to this day.  And he was cross-examined and the reason for the killing wasn't to lure the person, it was mainly just an attack on him, being a person from a UDF family in the general violence at the time.  So my submission is, is that that takes it out of the issue of proportionality.  
	If there's anything further I'll move on.  The pages reference there, this incident is discussed page 159 of the Hammarsdale, sorry let me just check that, 159 to 169 is when it was discussed on the record.  It's the Hammarsdale volume.  And just in answer to a question, just to finalise that issue to Honourable Judge Khampepe, the applicant was asked:
"...Are you saying that you killed Hlongwane's younger brother because he was Sikanye's brother, or was it because he was a member of the UDF?  Which of the two?  I just need clarification."
The answer being:
"...It was both, he was a member of the UDF and he was also Sikanye's brother."
I submit that that would form part of the sort of general attacks on the opposition.  Thank you.
I now want to turn to deal with the Ermelo matters, and I'm going to deal with these very briefly in my argument.  They commence at page 18 of my Heads, and they're listed in my Annexure A I think in section 3.  I don't intend going through every incident, basically what needs to be emphasised here is the way, or the circumstances surrounding the applicant's deployment in Ermelo.  
	You will recall that he was actually removed from the police as a special constable, because the South African police were searching for him in relation to the rape issue which we discussed.  And he was taken, he fled to Ulundi together with his co-accused and they were sent back to get clothing.  In the process his co-accused got caught and then Hlongwane was hid for a while in the Ulundi environs.  It was at that stage that, I think at one of the camps, the Black Cats from Ermelo, basically the IFP youth from Ermelo, came and he met them there, and then he was given basically a deployment order by the first applicant, Luthuli, to go to Ermelo, specifically because the Black Cats were losing the war and the ANC were creating problems for organisation in that area.  The similar structure existed in that he was told to report to the mayor of Dargle a Mr Noah, and he met this person at an agreed place.  This person provided food and shelter and in fact, together with other IFP persons in the area, provided him with the, what he described as being the tools that he required for, to, satisfy his mission or to complete his mission there.  And as the evidence indicates he was very successful in this regard, and certainly directed a number of attacks against the opposition which were quite successful.  
	I, it's my submission that in relation to all these attacks they were committed strictly within the framework of the military tactics employed by the IFP against the ANC and UDF at the time, and further that in relation to all of these incidents he has fully disclosed the circumstances surrounding them.  Again it's, I think it's useful to emphasise that in most of these instances, he hasn't been prosecuted, and in fact nobody would have known his involvement had it not been for him coming to the fore.  Further, his sincerity in approaching matters this way is shown by the fact that he has acted for the State as a State witness and assisted with investigations, and also as Mr Stewart had indicated earlier, his contrition and his full disclosure has led to him being, his apology being accepted by the community in Ermelo.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muller's argument is that there's no acceptable evidence that the named policemen who he represents were involved in supporting the IFP, etc., and Mr Rouss Ngewu I think the name was, wasn't even a policeman, Roux Ngwenya, yes.  What do you say to those submissions which we'll no doubt hear shortly from Mr Muller.

MR WILLS: Well I submit with respect that in order for the Committee to take cognisance of that argument, which with respect I haven't seen, this is the first I've heard of it, but that argument must be put to the test of cross-examination.  Hlongwane has come here, he's testified under oath, he's subjected himself to cross-examination by a number of legal teams, and the same can't be said of the person who may be opposing him.  And to that extent I would submit that the evidence of Mr Hlongwane must be accepted above the evidence of these persons.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just while we're on that matter, I should have perhaps have asked Mr Stewart when he was arguing, what about the stance, or the, taken by the implicated person represented by Messrs Faulkner and Hewitt during the hearing?  Namely that all their clients deny, any and all of the allegations against them.

MR WILLS: Yes, my argument would be similar.  I think this provides, they were provided with the Section 18 notices, they had ample opportunity to come and to testify in opposition, and it's very easy for somebody at a distance to sit in Ulundi and say, we know nothing about this, these people are just criminals, it's another thing for them to come and substantiate those averments and subject themselves to cross-examination.
I want to, I don't see that there's a need to harp on the Ermelo matters unless there's something else, just that, the only other thing ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I think the same arguments apply in respect of those, and to a large extent the Izingolweni type of incidents, they were horrific, I mean there's no doubt about it.  I mean, when one looks at most of the victims, they were school children there.  I mean, they had a problem at the school and I think at one stage Mr Hlongwane said you know, take out the whole school.  You know, to solve the problem.  And then, come across school kids and they get pointed out and boom they're shot down, that sort of thing.  Much in the same mould as many other.

MR WILLS: Yes, except to say, well it's in the same mould but I emphasise, in addition to the way I did with the Izingolweni matters, that this was in the, within the structure of a planned operation, and Hlongwane was effectively ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Was sent there specifically for, to perform a task.