Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Thank you.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Van Eyck, you have given evidence about the Police having been involved in the selling of AK-47s to the Mala Gang. Is that correct?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Honourable Chairperson, they were not involved.  All that I said in my evidence was that Brig Daantjie van Wyk had made enquiries at police headquarters and also at John Vorster Square.  He wanted to obtain funds to buy these firearms but I doubt very much whether he obtained these funds.

SISI KHAMPEPE: According to your information, where would he have bought the firearms, from where would he have bought the firearms?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: He would haved used an informer to buy these firearms in Soweto.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now what period are we talking of here; are you talking about the period early 1991 or prior to 1991?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Honourable Chairperson, it would have been during the first couple of months of 1991, between January and approximately March.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Van Eyck, AK-47s, were they available to the members of the community and also could be bought from the Police from the members of the community in Soweto?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Chairperson, they were not freely available but if you had the right contacts you - the right contacts in Black areas you could then obtain these weapons.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now who in Black areas were known to sell or at least to have possession of such arms?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Honourable Chairperson, as far as I know these weapons were only available amongst the people who smuggled them into the country and the only way in which you would be able to obtain them would be by means of an informer.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But they were available to people who wanted to have them?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Honourable Chairperson, I believe that if you tried hard enough and you had the right contacts you could have obtained them, but it certainly was no easy task.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Van Eyck, when did you become aware of the onslaught by the PAC and the ANC against their financial institutions and the country as a whole, as you have given evidence?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Honourable Chairperson, I was aware of this onslaught since the time I had undergone training in the combating of terrorism.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And when was that, Mr Van Eyck? The date?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: This was during 1973, Chairperson.  From that period onwards, I was aware of the onslaught against the country.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Van Eyck how many Blacks were employed by the Fidelity Guards company where you were working at Hillbrow?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: I think approximately 100 people.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And according to the information you received from the various sources of informers, how many of those people were members of both the ANC and the PAC?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Honourable Chairperson, I would estimate about half.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you, Mr Van Eyck.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Prinsloo, have you any questions to ask of this witness?

ADV PRINSLOO: As it pleases, Mr Chairperson. Mr Van Eyck, on your own version which you have submitted to the Commission, on your version you would have been guilty of murder as an accessory after the fact?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: That is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: And did you reconcile yourself with the death of the deceased?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Yes, that is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: You also took no steps to prevent Gerber or Oosthuisen killing the deceased?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: No, I didn't.

ADV PRINSLOO: And on that basis you would also have been an accomplice to the murder of the deceased?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: That is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Van Eyck, are you aware that during the so-called onslaught against the country, use was made of all sections of the community to combat this onslaught and attacks by terrorists?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Yes, that is correct. I may mention that in 1986 I performed border duty at Cumberland, that is in the district of Thabazimbi, and part of my duties was to perform farm patrols and to inform the farmers in respect of the combating of terrorism, I had to get their co-operation in this.

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Mr Van Eyck, I just want to quote something to you and ask you whether you are familiar with this.  It is from a statement of the Committee of the AfricanNational Congress, dated 17th August 1988, Lusaka, Zambia.  I would like to quote this to you
" ... when he warned that the revolutionary effort had reached an extremely dangerous phase and that the Permanent Force and the present number of national servicemen could no longer guarantee the protection of the White population.  It has therefore become imperative that each of us should be involved in one way or another in the process of countering the onslaught, he said".
Are you aware of that?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: That is correct.  An appeal was made on various occasions to the entire population to assist in combating this onslaught.

ADV PRINSLOO: A further quote from the same statement- "... one of the principal tasks of the commandos and every member is instructed to keep an eye on local events.  Farmers and businessmen are expected to monitor their Black employees and report any out-of-the-way occurrences.  Commandos, and also the Police and regular SADF units at roadblocks, patrol areas in which guerillas are expected to be operating and carry out pacification operations to suppress the resistance in Black townships and settlements.  Many of the men mobilised for commando service are farmers, a section of the population which has been targeted for special attention by the SADF. Gen Viljoen has stated that residents of rural areas should be involved in military activities 365 days a year and that agriculture has to be seen as the part of the State's total strategy.  Farmers are expected to make political as well as a military contribution."
Was that your experience as well?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: That is correct, yes, Chairperson.

ADV PRINSLOO: And as far as the business sector was concerned, what was their involvement?  How did you regard them?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Chairperson, an appeal was made to the entire community to assist and that includes all members of the public.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Van Eyck, are you familiar with the siege which took place at Silverton when a siege was held to a bank by members of the ANC? They were later convicted.  These were James Silole, Marcus Motsaung, Telem Choradie.  They were executed on the 9th of June 1983, as a result of that.

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Yes, I am aware of this act.

ADV PRINSLOO: Just a moment, Chairperson.  I would also like to refer you to a statement delivered by Comrade President O R Tambo, on 16th of December 1986 and I quote from that statement, which reads as follows
"It is within this context I now present you, our glorious People's Army with your battle orders of the day. I order train, arm and lead our people into battle, defend our people in town and countryside, sever the enemy's lines of communication and power, disperse and immobilise the enemy forces, destroy the enemy's economic resources.  Attack enemy on all fronts and annihilate his forces.  Make people's war flourish in all its dimensions in every part of our country."
Were you at all aware of these aspects, did you have first-hand experience of these?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Chairperson, as I have already said, it was known that there was this total onslaught.

ADV PRINSLOO: What I have just read to you, was it your impression that each and every member of the community saw himself as an agent of the State and was dutybound to fight against this onslaught?

JOHAN VAN EYCK: Yes, it was expected of each and every member of the public to become involved in the combating of this onslaught.

ADV PRINSLOO: Thank you, Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRINSLOO

HASSAN MALL: Mrs Van der Walt, do you wish to re-examine your witness?

MEV VAN DER WALT: No, Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MRS VAN DER WALT