Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

DJ MKHIZE: Mr Chairperson, shortly this might be one of the most serious sacrifices, but I am just happy that it gave me an opportunity to clear my conscience.  But I am very hurt because I see myself as a fool who failed to do proper calculations timeously.  I could have used my energy to do something else.  Maybe I would be having lots of money today; maybe I'll be someone prominent within the community, but not the criminal as I am being referred to by the IFP today.  I struggled because of the IFP beliefs.  And I recruited other people into the same struggle; people like Romeo.  People whom I recruited from the police force where they were honestly working.
	I struggled so that people could be freed from the white man's oppression.  This was a wrong way of struggling because the people with whom I was struggling, following their instructions in particular, are not anywhere near me today.  And they never were since I landed in trouble and these very same poor souls that I recruited into the problem.  And they never kept their promises.
	Everybody who was engaged in the struggle in this country, are proud of having engaged in their struggle.  For example, look at the PAC and the ANC.  They are proud about the fact that they were engaged in the struggle that liberated their country.  In my case many people died and I cannot take pride in that kind of a struggle.  And I am very shameful and I am also shameful thinking about my children.  I am shameful about that.
	And I was deserted, and they denied knowing me.   And I smelled as I am smelling now.  It upset me to hear from the media what insults came from IFP leaders referring to us as having conducted our own criminal activities.  I swear here before the Commission that there is no personal benefit that was... [end of side 1]...have.  If I wanted a State car, I could get it any time.  Things like those.
	And my personal things.  For example, one day I wanted R2 300 to go and pay for my house at Dundee.  A house that I had just bought.  They easily gave me the money and I did not pay it back.  And it was not even indicated that I should pay it back.  Things like that.
	Yes, I received certain help.  If I wanted to move furniture or things from one place to another they could easily provide State trucks to my disposal.  Those are the kind of things that I can claim as having gained.  And those are the sorts of things that motivated me to continue with the kind of struggle in which I was engaged.
	But there is nothing that I can indicate as having profited from.  It is therefore very sad that a person can be engaged in this sort of a struggle.  The IFP leaders are denying knowledge of us.  They don't know us.
	I find it very strange that I went to Caprivi.  How did I know about Caprivi?  Where did I get finance to go to Caprivi for training?
	They are also refusing or denying the training that was going on at Caprivi.  Point to me any chief around here whose bodyguards are using rocket launches.  I know not of any.  But we were using all these sorts of things; explosives, cortex, fuses and all sorts of things; beehives.  And we were trained so that we could guard the chiefs and heads.  Explosives were used in the training so that we could guard these people.
	I swear that during my training we used all sorts of weapons except for any legal South African made rifle.  We were using Eastern Block weapons.  God knows all about that.  Maybe one day the truth will surface.
	What I can say here, I have committed and dedicated myself, be it any probe or form.  I am dedicated to say exactly what I am saying here.  I know what I am saying, that this places me in danger.  Because I am still going to talk.  This is as good as sacrificing my life after having killed so many people.
	I know that I am still going to talk, even if there is any investigation that will come later, regardless of who is going to be affected or arrested.  I want the truth to out that I am not a criminal.  I am prepared to testify.
	I am not therefore saying that I would like to see justice being done.  I would actually like to see justice being done in the country to cleanse my name, and these gentlemen with whom I am arrested and everybody who is in the same predicament as myself.  So that finally the community should know that we were not criminals.  This is how we worked.
	This is what I wish to say.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Mr Mkhize, just before we go off that subject, you were sitting in Westville Prison and after a few years you were approached by some senior IFP persons and the message or the discussions that they had with you concerned your application to the amnesty committee.  Can you just describe what happened in those circumstances to the Committee please?