Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much for that - for that background on the Port Shepstone area.  I just ask the commissioners or committee members whether there's any questions which they want to ask.  Perhaps start off with - could you say something briefly about the role of the white right wing in this area?  I know that's not something that was mentioned, and I understand that there has been a role played.

MR CHETTY: I think we - in the complete submissions we will be - we will include some information on that, but it became - we only became aware of the white right wing as late as 1994, of their involvement, but there has been suspicions of the involvement of the AWB the IFP and the SAP in some kind of a unit, perhaps unofficial unit that was operating.  And that became very clear in the form of affidavits from people that are now being charged.

MS IRISH: What we have done with the submission is every single allegation we've made we would have cases to back it up.  Unfortunately the cases related to the involvement of the right wing relate to the period of 1994, which ... (intervention)

QUESTIONER: Just one question for the sake of the record.  Is there any translation here?  There's no translation.

QUESTIONER: Excuse me, with the first speaker we had some problems because she was running too fast and we couldn't catch up, so we just let it go.  We tried to ask, there was nobody to talk to.  Thank you.

QUESTIONER: For the sake of records here, you just said that the Internal Stability Unit was under Colonel Fourie, is that correct?

MS IRISH: That's correct.

QUESTIONER: And then you have mentioned the Murder &  Robbery Unit.

MS IRISH: That's correct.

QUESTIONER: Under whose command was it?

MR CHETTY: Under the command of then Warrant-Officer F P Breedt.

QUESTIONER: F P Breedt.

MR CHETTY: The Unrest & Violent Crime Investigation Unit's a unit separate to that of the Murder & Robbery, which investigated politically motivated crimes only.

QUESTIONER: Thank you.  Is this Colonel Fourie still around in Port Shepstone?

MS IRISH: He's been withdrawn from Port Shepstone.  However, he is serving in the provincial of the now POP Unit as a strategic planner.

QUESTIONER: Thank you.  And F P Breedt?

MR CHETTY: We understand that he was medically boarded some time late last year, but our suspicions are that it is because of increasing evidence of his involvement in crimes committed.

QUESTIONER: I think that can be investigated, where he is.  You have mentioned here that there were monies which were paid for inthelezi and that interests me as the person in the Reparation and Rehabilitation - what-do-you-call - Committee.  Is there any idea where this inthelezi was found?  Where did they get this inthelezi?

MR CHETTY: It would appear that they would be - I mean they would be found at different places.  We had reports of it coming from somewhere south - Izingolweni, Harding areas, and we also had reports of it coming from Ulundi, and some were in the townships in the Durban area.  And people had to pay - local communities had to pay for someone to go and fetch that particular muthi and come back, the transport and the cost of purchasing it.

MS IRISH: Most of the information that we have about that comes from people who were forced to pay, not necessarily people who were actually using the inthelezi, so as a result they would not necessarily know where it came from, but would have been forced to pay, and the affidavits and statements that we have are in that regard.

QUESTIONER: You have the names of those people?

MS IRISH: We have, ja.

QUESTIONER: Thank you.

COMMISSIONER: Can I just ask - we seem to have - you mentioned the commanding officer of the Murder & Robbery Unit.  Who was the commanding officer of the Unrest Investigation Unit?

MR CHETTY: Well, at one time it was one unit, and later on - I think some times around '92 or so - they separated and they had a separate office in a separate building away from the police station.  And I understand at that time the head of Murder & Robbery was Colonel Koekemoer.

COMMISSIONER: Colonel Koekemoer?

MR CHETTY: Yes, but the Unrest & Violent Crime was F P Breedt.

QUESTIONER: Just one more question if the other comrade has finished.  You have here mentioned the cases of murder like Wiseman Mthembu and Cayfus Nzindlela.  Are the families of these people still around here in Port Shepstone?

MR CHETTY: It is possible to locate them, but it would take a bit of time because there's been a lot of movement.  With the conflict there's been a lot of movement around the Port Shepstone area, but I think it would be possible to trace them.

QUESTIONER: I think that will be very important, because if we were to heal the land we need to trace where these people are.  They must be traumatised where they are and they need to be traced.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: The question I was going to ask was related to the community.  You have already answered that one.  I wanted to know that in Port Shepstone there was disruption of community life and people ran away to different areas.  To what extent have people come back to resettle themselves?  If not do you have an idea where most of the people are now?

MR CHETTY: We have around 1991 when there was - with the introduction of the G3 rifles, and of course we had a lot more illegal weapons coming in, like AK47s, home-made weapons, the fighting intensified.  We had estimated 5 000 displacees.  A lot of people had moved to neighbouring farms, and some of them moved to safer areas that was not as badly affected by the violence, and some them are - you would see shack type settlements in the areas of Louisiana, and closer to the Oshibeni areas.  It is very visible, and most of these people come from the Murchison and Bhoboyi areas.  The other is that many of the people from the Murchison conflict had fled to the Gamalakhe area and became refugees there.  Some of them have been absorbed into those communities, and with the peace initiative at the end of 1992 one of the agreements of the peace initiative was that the refugees be allowed to return to their homes, and we had a lot of people coming back, and so we have now a peaceful co-existence in the Murchison/Bhoboyi area of both ANC and IFP people.

MS IRISH: I think the problems experienced in terms of dealing with the problem of displacees in this area is similar to that experienced throughout the province, where you have entire communities displaced at one time, where a whole entire community, or possibly up to 20-30 people fled their homes.  Very often those people would move into church halls or whatever as a temporary situation, and would stay together.  The problem arises when you have individuals forced to flee their homes, and in particular when it came to youth who were forced to flee their homes, and often landed up in Durban, or staying in somebody's back room, and it would be very difficult to contact and find out exactly what those people's situations are.  But in many of the instances where those people fled to some of the areas around Durban they've been unable to attend school since their displacement, and some of them have not returned to the areas.

QUESTIONER: One last question.  You'll understand that one of the duties of the TRC is that they must not be partisan, so this makes me to have an interest in what has happened to the Induna Blose's family.  Where is Induna Blose's family?  Is it still around, or where?