Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-11

MR MVUDLE: The school children were arrested in the township.  Things did not go well, children were not going to school.  We then worked together with the youth leaders of the political groups and the Reverends.  We all tried to work together trying to stabilise the township.  We called a meeting talking to the school children.  They then agreed that they would stop the chaos if those that had been arrested would be released.
 The Reverends and the principals got together trying to work together.  So because the school children promised that if the other children would be released then they would stop the chaos.  A committee was formed to talk to the police.  A lot were scared to go to the police.  I was prepared to go.  I went with the school principals and the Reverends from the township.  We went to the police station to talk to the police.  We talked to the Station Commander of Carletonville.  We assured him that, truly, if he would release the students then things would stabilise.  The children would go to school.  
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He then said because I stand for the Comrades they are releasing these children, but it is my responsibility.  Anything that happens they would come to me first.  They then asked for a list of the children that were arrested.  They would call me frequently to go to court.  Everytime the children would be released until all the children were released.  There were 86 children who were in jail.   stabilised.  
 In 1986 I was not active anymore, politically.  My younger brother Thomas Mvudle, who was still at school at the time.  Chaos erupted again.  They burnt down the principals car.  The police then would come to my house all the time looking for Thomas.
 Around the 13th of March at night, we were sleeping.  We heard the police knocking.  When we opened the door they got inside looking for Thomas.  My father said Thomas was not at home, he is always running away, we do not know where he stays.  There was this Station Commander looking at me straight in the eye.  He said he thinks he knows me, I look familiar.  They asked me if I am a taxi driver.  I said no, I am not a taxi driver.  He then said, but I have seen you somewhere, I know you.  I then said, I do not know where you have seen me.  I knew where he had seen me, but I did not want to say anything.  They were busy turning everything upside down, beds, everything.  
 The same guy came back.  He called Skeepers.  I just heard him saying to Skeepers, now I know who this man is.  I remember who he is he said.  I think he is, he is the man who use to come with the Reverends to my office.  I told him that is so.  He said bring him with them.  They said just dress up.  
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 While I was with them in the van, there was youth in the van.  We took to the youth to the police station.  When we got there the others were being beaten up, but they did not beat me up at the time.  They were given an order that I should not be beaten up.  
 The children were charged with Section 50 at the time.  They would stay in jail for 14 days without appearing in court.  After the 14 days of detention they would go to court or be released.  
 I was not charged.  I stayed in the Carletonville Police Station for two weeks.  I would ask the police when I am going to court.  They said they did not know.  After the two weeks they took me to Potchefstroom.  I stayed there for a week.  The following week they came to get me at about 3am, taking us to Rustenberg.  There is a place in Rustenberg called Dwaalboom.
 At Dwaalboom there were others who had been arrested.  They had also been assaulted.  At about one in the afternoon they called me.  They said I seem to know a lot and I have been organising a lot.  They requested information about the children who would go to Botswana and Zambia.  They then asked who helped them, who helped these children go to Botswana and Zambia?  I said I do not know anything about that.  They said, no you know.  I said I do not know because I am no longer politically active.  They said I should know who helps these children.  They took a shambok from the van.  There were two black policemen.  The one was Venter Rampete, the other from Potchefstroom.  I do not remember his name.  They took our shirts off and then started assaulting us withe shamboks.  We kept on denying, saying we do not know.   At about three they put a fire on.  They had a braai.  KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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They would take us one by one.  There was a forest nearby where they would take us.  After coming back from the forest you just would not be able to talk.  I would ask the other what happened.  They would say no, we have been really beaten up at the forest.
 At about four they took a group from amongst us.  Four of us were left behind.  The boys were braaing meat.  The one then said to the others, Skeepers said to van Wyk, the fat one.  He was saying they do not know what they are going to do about me because I had put them in trouble.  Van Wyk was drinking brandy the whole time.  He said that they are all the same.  They took the fork that they used for the meat, came to me.  I was half naked.  He put it on my back.  This mark is as a result of that assault.  They burnt me.  They said that I would tell the truth.  I said I do not know anything. 
 Venter then was called to the side.  They talked to him.  I do not know what they talked about, but Venter was talking Afrikaans.  I could not understand well.  They then called me.  They took us back to Potchefstroom at about 12 midnight.  They kept on giving me sulphur.  I stayed there for three months.  I was in detention.  I was not going to court.  
 My family kept on asking me why I was detained, when I am going to court.  I did not know.  My family tried to get a lawyer.  Eventually I was called to go to court.  I went to court in Carletonville.  When I got there I was called last.  They just told me to leave.  They told me I am free because I am innocent.  That is how I got home after three months.  I had lost my job.  
 After a while I was not active politically at all.  
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Around October 1989 at the Carletonville township, people started fighting, fighting against the police.  People in the township were burning the police houses down, even the police themselves.  People were being threatened.  When they are coming back they take their groceries.  People were forced to drink cooking oil.  
 There is a man who stayed in the township.  His name was Moss.  They went to him, he had a tavern.  One afternoon a group of children went to Moss' house and burnt down his house and his cars.  When they were asked what Moss had done they then said he is being bribed by the police because they saw one night, a police van going to his house.  
 We were also confused.  We did not know what was happening exactly.  Before we would at least know what is going on, but now everybody was being harassed, being raped.  We did not know what was happening.  If this group would come to your house, they would take your daughter and rape her.  You were supposed to keep quiet and not tell the police because as soon as you go to the police, you were labelled as an informer and you were supposed to be killed.  We did not know what was happening in the location.  There were school boycotts until December.  
 Before December, in November a certain young man from Soweto came to Carletonville.  His name was Gadaffi.  Gadaffi joined this group of young men.  We were well aware that they were the ones who were active at the time.  This is when things started being chaotic.  
 Machona's house was burnt down.  When we asked why Machona's house was burnt down they said that they saw police coming from his house at night.  Mr Machona said the police came to my house because one of his taxi drivers 
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bumped into a Boers car in Vrystaat.  Now, these police had come to look for this man and I had said that this man was no longer under my own employment, but when he was explaining this his house was already burnt down and his business.  He use to sell cooldrink.  It then was later revealed that the Machona incident was connected with someone in the location that I refuse to name.  He apparently bribed these young men, gave them money to burn down Machona's house so that he can carry on with his business.
 We lived like this in the township for a while.  We did not like what was going on.  Around January or February there was a young woman, Lina Maseko, who stayed on the same street as me.  She was also a Comrade, she would wear the uniform.  One evening at one of our back streets, I think she wanted to withdraw from the group because at home they did not like her being part of the group.  After three days they sent her boyfriend to her.  This boyfriend took her to the others who were waiting for them by the corner.  They burnt her down, they killed her, they burnt her to death.  Those of us that were previously active, we got together and said that this is not the way to go about things.  Everything was out of control.  
 Around March the township civic came together and the other concerned residents.  We got together at the Roman Catholic Church.  We were discussing the chaotic incidents in the township.  We knew all the children except the two that came from Dobsonville.  His name was Sepho.  We then decided that we must look for these children, they must be taken to the stadium and then at the stadium we must show these children to the community.  
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 I just want to revert back.  Before this happened there was a woman who stayed in our street.  Her name was Maggie Malindi.  She also was killed, burnt to death.  Her corpse was burnt for three days.  They would put a tyre on her and then burn the corpse.  No one was supposed to come close to her.  The reason why she was killed is because her brother, Simon, had an argument with one of the members of the Gadaffi.  Simon stayed in a shack.  Maggie was standing outside.  She then called out saying that Simon, they are here.  He then ran outside, through the window.  She was then killed because she had alerted the brother that he was going to be killed.  
 Anyway, we realised that something is out of control.  Something must be done.  The evening we met at the Roman Catholic Church.  We had an agreement that we are going to meet at the Roman Catholic Church, but one of the Gadaffi members went to tell these boys that they are going to be hunted that particular night.  When they met at seven o' clock my brother, who is Thomas Mvudle, was also involved.  While they were still there at the Roman Catholic Church taking a decision, they heard a blow, the windows were broken.  There were petrol bombs thrown inside.  Other parts of the Church were burnt down.  They went out to chase this group.  I understand one of them was caught and he was shot with pangas and he was killed.  His name was Libiro.  He was the first victim from the Gadaffi group.  This went on and on.  
 The following day I heard that my home was burning because I was no longer staying at home.  When I went home I could see that there were a lot of school children outside.  I asked them what was happening.  They said we are KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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looking for Thomas.  Others were having petrol bombs in their hands.  I told them that this is not Thomas' house. It is Tema's home.  I am also a first born in this house, but this is not my house.  So if you want Thomas just go straight to Thomas, do not burn the house, because this house does not belong to Thomas.  How would you feel if I happened to quarrel with you and then I will go and burn your homes without quarrelling with your parents.  Some of them use to know me and they use to have great respect for me because when I came in they went out and the others said to others, no he is telling the truth.  Let us leave the house alone and start looking for Thomas.  A police Casper came and they ran away. 
 I asked them at home where Thomas was.  They said, no, Thomas came yesterday and he came to fetch his clothes.  I went to look for them where they were hiding.  They were in one house which was situated on the outskirts of the township which belonged to Mrs Maggie Munene.  This is where I heard what actually happened.
 They said they were at the meeting with the Civic Association so as to tell them about what was being done by the youth in the township.  Unfortunately they got the wrong information and they attacked them in the Church.  Most of them, while they were attacked, they ran away.  Only a few of them were left, about eight of them who did not run away.  Those were Thomas' school mates.  These group of Gadaffi were Thomas' school mates.  He said he did not like what was being done by these youth because they cannot tolerate that anymore.  He also reminded me about the incidents that I had forgotten.  That about a few girls who were caught and were locked up in some school and their ears were chopped off and KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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they were forced to eat those ears.  This was done by this very same group of Gadaffi.  So my brother was prepared to fight this evil.  
 They use to tell me at home that this Gadaffi group is coming and their intention is to burn the house, but I also told myself that I was not going to tolerate that because I knew that my parents will end up homeless.  I joined the very same gang.  
 Coming to this Mazimzim group.  Mazimzim group was not a gangster.  It was named because the people who were involved in this group like myself and Spankie Lesotho.  In 1985 and 1986 we were active as members of ASASAN and now ANC was unbanned so they wanted to label us.  That is why there was this name, Mazimzim.  This went on and on.  It was now a war where there were these two gangs, although one of them was not about gangsterism.  We were fighting for the rights of the residents because the residents were confused.  They did not know what to do.  If your daughter was raped, you are not supposed to go and report the matter to the police because they would label you as an informer and you would be killed. 
 The delivery trucks were not able to come to the townships.  There was no schooling at all because of the group.  The school children were also victims.  We called our ANC members and talked to them and asked for their advice.  We discovered that they themselves were afraid. This youth is under them, but they were afraid.  They could see that what they were doing was wrong, but they were afraid to stand up and say it out that this was wrong.
 There was a meeting that was held at one of the stadiums.  There was a doctor by the name of Malcolm Tibo 
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who was active at the time.  When he tried to tell them that what they were doing was wrong, all of them exploded and this doctor had to be escorted out because the youth wanted to burn him.  Even the leadership in the township was afraid of these boys.  Our leadership would come during the night and say that we know that you are doing the right thing, but it is very difficult for us to say it openly and tell these boys that they are doing wrong. We knew that they were afraid because they were going to be killed.  
 We went to Daraca House where the ANC offices were situated, where we wanted to report this matter.  We were also the youth of ANC.  They were also the youth of ANC, but they were doing wrong things.  They were doing these things claiming that they were Comrades although their actions did not show that they were Comrades.  We approached Comrades like Pinwell Mduna, but there was no improvement.  They tried to talk to this group to tell them that we should meet and resolve this problem, but unfortunately there was no attendance.  This went on and on, people were dying in our townships.  
 The ANC was trying to send people to the township to help us with our problem.  One of the Comrades is here.  Comrade Strike was sent to the township to help resolve the problem, but it made no difference.  What I want to say is when they label us as sellouts, we were not arrested.  It is true because we were fighting the same gang that has been fighting them, that was burning them, the houses down.  
 All the police could not stay in the township.  They had to stay elsewhere.  This is why we were seen as if we were informers.  The police would not come and arrest us. 
  There were a lot of people who would come and support
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us, businessmen as well.  If they say that we got guns and 
weapons from the police, that is incorrect.  We would buy these.  There were businessmen who were suffering in the township.  If they came to you and if they took your money, you were not allowed to go to the police because they would burn your house down.  So there were people who would give us money in the dark.  They realised that we are helping there businesses.  A lot of people died, a lot of people were killed by this gang.  
 Around June we got a message that we are needed at home.  We then were told that the gang went to our house, the Gadaffi house.  When they got there they asked for Thomas Mvudle.  They did not find him, but they found my mother and my younger sister.  They had pangas, guns, axes.  Apparently, my sister, as she told us, they said that they take my mother and shake her roughly asking for her sons, especially Thomas.  They said that when they find Thomas, they would kill him instantly.  I think my mother was in absolute shock and she must have fallen down.  When she fell the gang ran away.  
 Our neighbours called the ambulance.  She was then taken to the hospital.  She stayed in hospital for three days and she passed away.  She had a stroke.  What is most painful is that when all this happened.  We asked my sister who are the men that were here.  She said she is not sure, but she did see a few that she knew.  She saw Banama, Pitcherman, Jomo and Mandla, Mpanomandla, she saw Sepho, she saw Gadaffi.  The others I do not know well, but my younger brothers know them.
 When we were making preparations for the funeral, we were called yet again.  We were not staying at home at the
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time.  We were told that they had gone back to our house wanting to burn it down.  We came back.  Fortunately, when we got home they were still on there way.  They had petrol bombs, they were singing.  When we appeared, we did not have an alternative, but to all fight.  They then ran away.  We were asking ourselves, that they have killed our mother, we have not even buried her.  Now they want to burn our house down.  Where are we supposed to bury my mother.  Why do they not wait for us to bury my mother and then they can come and burn the house down.  
 We went back to the ANC.  We went to their Head Office to complain.  At the time a lot of reporters would come to Khutsong.  Most of them were biased, they would take incorrect reports, propaganda, there was no truth. 
 If the truth be told, a lot of bad things happened in Khutsong, I do not want to name people because there are certain woman who are in the township who were members of the Womens League.  These women took the very same gang, the Gadaffi, took them to Natal.  They were taken to the witchdoctors so that the bullets would not enter their bodies.  It is painful to think of such, these people are denying that they took part in the chaos.  These things happened in the township.  I have said a lot.  People were dying from all sides.  
 The ANC would try to resolve the conflict.  One day they called both the gangs.  They agreed to meet with us so that we could talk.  I think that what made them come was that they could see that a lot of them were dying.  Even though I do not believe in violence, I think that our group helped to stabilise things.  If these boys were not coming against violence as well, they would not have stopped.  
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We met at Tshatse.  We all talked.  It was said that everything was then out of control.  A lot of youth had died.  The Khutsong parents would instigate their children.  This is why a lot of children are dead today.