Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-09

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Sorry, I am sorry to interrupt you. Before you go on to the funeral, can I just ask you about the shack.  Do you know where the big shack, where you were interrogated and where you were kept, do you know where that shack is?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, it is a big one at Nxolo, at Crossroads.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Is the shack still there, can it be identified?

RUTH KEBISELA: I don't know, I have never been to Crossroads since then. I don't know if it is still there or not.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And did it look like a warehouse, like a big factory shack or was it a shack built by people, maybe looked like a big house or something?

RUTH KEBISELA: It is a big shack, it is partitioned into a different number of rooms inside, it is a very big shack.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Like a factory warehouse?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, like maybe this church, but partitioned into rooms, into different rooms.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So the rooms were the same rooms in the shack where it was also like a court?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, it looked like cells in court, but then there were shack, not brick made.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay. Now the people who were interrogating you, the people who were asking you the questions and ill treating you while they were asking the questions, are they the same people who stopped you at the road block?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, the same people, but the one was not at the road block is the one who was called the magistrate.  We found him there.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay. So each person had a different role. The one person acted like a magistrate, the other person acted like police persons and so on?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, that is so.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I just need to know a little bit more. The man who asked you about your clan names, and who told you about the death of Vuyani and his friend, was that man also amongst the people who arrested you at the road block?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, he was also there.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Why do you think that he told you that, why did he first ask you for your clan name and then tell you about the death of Vuyani?

RUTH KEBISELA: I think his reason was that he was also there and I think he was touched by the fact that he knew this man whom he was Thombakaya's husband, whom he knew from the rural areas.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So in a sense he recognised Thombakaya and felt that because he knew - because he knew her he wanted to give you that information and help you?

RUTH KEBISELA: I think so, yes, that is the reason.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Were you very hurt, did you have lots of injuries on your body and did you receive any treatment for that, at the time?

RUTH KEBISELA: Yes, I did have a mark here where I was pricked by this sharp instrument.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay. Thank you. I don't have any more questions for Ruth nor Mr Finye. I hand over to the chairperson and maybe my colleagues will ask some questions.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you, Glenda.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: It just leaves for me to say to both Ruth and Mr Finye, that you both have told us a very heart-rending story.  It was impossible for us to sit here and listen to the story without our hearts bleeding as well, as you told us what had happened to you.  Thank you very much for coming and thank you very much for sharing with us what had happened to you then.  We hope that in some way this process of telling your story will help to heal a little bit the wounds that you have.  Thank you very much.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you, Glenda.  I just forgot one question.  You say Pollsmoor was in fact, what was Red Sea?

RUTH KEBISELA: It is this, Red Sea is the sea.  It is a big dam, this Red Sea is a big dam that is in Crossroads.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you.  Thank you, Mr Finye, and thank you to you, Ruth.
 I just want to remind people here that we should try and keep our voices very, very low, because they are also disturbed by the noise.  Please let's give respect to all the witnesses.