Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay.  As I explained to Mr Chairperson that it was to disarm which were the issues which were discussed in that meeting.  Secondly, was to see to it that how do we fund-raise for the organisation.  Thirdly, is that if possible, or if it's necessary we should kill the enemy.  Fourthly, was we should take each and every available item for the purpose of continuing with the struggle or maybe the objectives of the organisation.
	That is shortly what I would explain that what has happened in that meeting, though there may be other issues which were discussed, but I don't remember them well now because this thing has taken place a little bit long ago.  I will not be able to remember all the details of that meeting.

MR MTHEMBU: Now  Mr Mohapi you mention the question of fund-raising, now precisely for which organisation were you going to fund-raise for?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay.  Mr Chairperson I am trying to explain....(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want an explanation or do you want an answer?

MR MTHEMBU: An answer Mr Chairman.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Shortly I would say when you look inside my application for amnesty that is where I explained that I was fund-raising the organisation which I represented because it's not specific now, we were raising for the Pan Africanist Congress so that it should continue with its struggle for liberation.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mohapi we are going to request you to again to confine yourself please to questions which are posed to you.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay.  What I would say shortly is that we were fund-raising for the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania.

MR MTHEMBU: Now in the planning of this operation were you also involved?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I would explain is that in regard to the targets what I would tell you Mr Chairperson is that I was present.  I know about when we discuss about targets.

MR MTHEMBU: Were you also present when a reconnaissance of that farm was done on the 19th of July?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: The reconnaissance was done by the commander and Mr Oliphant.

MR MTHEMBU: But were you not the second-in-command of that unit?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: That is true Mr Chairperson.

MR MTHEMBU: Now would you tell the Committee about your participation in the killing and the robbery of the Smith's.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Thank you Sir. What I would explain to this Committee now is that yes I accept that I took part in the killing and I ...(intervention)

MR MTHEMBU: Before you proceed, when you went to Wesselsdal Farm were you armed and if so with what were you armed?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: When I went to Wesselsdal I was armed by the unit commander and I had a knife with me at that time.

MR MTHEMBU: Did you not have a firearm with you?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Not at all Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you, you may carry on Sir.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: As I explained to that on the 24th of July 1993 it was on a Saturday we left Botshabelo.  We went to the place called Van Staden's Rest, in a farm called Wesselsdal.  When we left Botshabelo we knew very well what was going to happen.  We knew exactly how many people were staying on that farm, how many houses are there in that farm and the distance between those houses.  We left having a full picture of the farm the way we were informed by the chief commander who went before to do reconnaissance.
	It is true we left with a taxi and we alighted at the crossroads of Van Staden's Rest.  We had intention why we had to alight at that particular place at night.  We walked on foot up to the place.  We left at night Mr Chairperson.  When we arrived there we came nearer the house.  We were able to see that there are an extra two cars.  We were told that there were only two cars, in other words there were four cars at that farm. The idea was to kill, but because we found that the situation has changed the unit commander called off the operation because he was surprised that there are other extra two cars present at the farm and then we left.  
	We went to a different place where we sat down then we discussed what should be done.  What I would explain that it was in the morning at dawn or when the sun rose, as I was second in command the unit commander informed me that we should go to that place and try to find out or enquire what is happening.  When I say there, I mean at Mr Smith's place, or Mr Smith's farm.
	What I can explain to the Commission is we knew where we were going because we were going to Mr Oliphant's sister who is Sophie Oliphant.  For us to go there was to gather information about the people who came there.  It might be people from other farms.
	We went there.  We met Sophie Oliphant. We looked for the information in such a way that it could not raise suspicions about those people who were there. She informed us that it is the son and the daughter of Mr and Mrs Smith.  
	And then again we found another information that the people in that area they would leave and go to church.  We found that valuable information which would inform the unit commander and other comrades about the true picture of the situation in that area.  Therefore if that is the information we gathered we were able to determine the time to attack. 
	We returned then we gave them the whole information.  Whilst we were there we saw one car leaving, a red car.  After that one a white bakkie left.  Inside that bakkie was a certain White child behind the bakkie.  I called them Boers, maybe you will be happy if I say White people.
	After they left then we went to the house.  Those who went to the house were four.  It was myself, it was Mr Mtjikelo, the unit commander, he was supposed to be there so that he should give instructions of what to be done and what not to be done, and Mr Mabitsa, Mr Wa-Nthoba and Mr Mabitsa.  It seems we made mistakes that I said it is myself, Mr Mtjikelo and Xhiba, I have added another names, that is to say Mabitsa and Nthoba, we left them at the storeroom.

CHAIRPERSON: This is very, very confusing, please just start again.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: There were four of you who went to the house.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yourself, your commander and who else?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: John Xhiba.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: And Simon Oliphant.  That is to say we left John Wa-Nthoba and Mr Mabitsa at the storeroom.  Yesterday I learnt that it is a storeroom.  I don't as what's the difference a shed and the storeroom.  We left them there.
	When we arrived there I knocked at the door together with my comrades and a White lady came, that is the wife to Mr Smith.  We asked her where was her husband, we are there to request petrol.  She told us that we should wait for a while, she will go and call her husband.  We waited there and then she went back inside the house.
	What I would explain is that whilst we were still waiting there we didn't wait for a long time Mr Smith appeared and when he arrived I informed him that we are asking or requesting petrol, the car we are using is stuck there.  He took us to the garage.  He just said to us, follow me. When we arrived at the garage he sent Mr Xhiba to the storeroom, to the shed.  When he came back, when Mr Xhiba came back he sent him to collect - I don't know as to whether it's a hosepipe or a container but he sent him there, when he returned he gave him what he was sent to collect.

CHAIRPERSON: Instead of saying he gave him, we don't know who you are talking about.  You told us that Xhiba was sent to the shed to fetch something whether it was a hosepipe or whether it was a container he comes back, now then tell us what happens instead of saying he gave him.