Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

ALWINUS MRALASI: It is tough because I get a - the - the pension because I'm sixty five years of age.  So we - these children are supporting  us as you know that they also have commitments.  Then they give us when they can afford whatever they can to give to us for food.  Some other times they buy some sheep for us.  That is how we live where as I cannot work for myself now any longer.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you very much.  I will ask  the Chair - thank you Chairperson - I will ask my colleagues.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Question in Xhosa

ALWINUS MRALASI: No, they did not have it.  They did not show any paper to me.

MS SEROKE: Question in Xhosa

ALWINUS MRALASI: It was easy if they had charged me for politics  because I could have shown then the book.  One other I have omitted is - which I would like to explain here in this gathering is - that Thequewe Willie Manene was a member  of the  Methodist and he accused me, together with his brother and another brother of his.  I must tell you everything that I taught about him so that one could make a story  out of this.  Willie Manene - I hated him for five years, I even wanted to stab him to death - stab him because he had hurt me and he implicated me and said I was there in that meeting.  And he said I was - we were hiding.
There was a lamp that was hidden under a table and this is an indication that this was  a real lie.  Willie Manene - I saw him in King Williams Town in 1972 and I was with my children.  And my children were not succeeding at school, so I decided to send them to King William's Town because I was working then.
I took them to King William's Town and that is where things went better for them, even in Somerset.  That is were I met Willie Manene who was working in a showroom where they sell cars.  And one of my children pointed him and said there he is.  So I asked for my knife, I opened it, I put it into my pocket, I went close to Willie Manene.  This is God's work because His works are wonderful.
I had intentions to stab him.  I opened the door and I saw a white man who asked me whether I wanted a car.  Then I said no.  I had last seen Willie in  1968, in court.  At the time he was wiping the car and he saw  me as I was moving slowly towards him.  In fact a person who was guilty, will always spot you and you know this is the truth.
So I went in greeted him and I asked him how he was and I asked him to go out with me.  We went outside and he stood there and he had some difficulty to talk.  And I was surprised what was wrong with him and I looked at him and I could see there was real change in him.  He had gone through a lot of suffering - he had gone through a lot of suffering.  I could see, it showed on his face and I asked why are you like this.
Do your people know that you are like this?  Then he said no.  I asked him about Frans Manene, Samuel Manene.  Then I asked him if I could see Samuel to give him some messages.  Then he said yes, he said he was suffering  from high blood pressure, he had pains on his hip and his son to was ill treating and beating him.  I could see he was finished, I then called my wife and even that one, who was born when I was detained.  I called all them  - all of them  - and I said Willie here are your children because we had the same clan  name.  So he greeted them.
Then I said these are your children, you can see they are old.  Then he said  Are you still going on with this.  Then I said to my wife  Look at this person, how he looks like.  And I asked my wife to take out one pound and give it to this man so that he could buy food for himself.  And that was the last I saw of him.  He never went back to his house, he never went to see his family.  He went to hospital and that was the end of his life.  So when he asked me how I had come there, I said I had come in a car.  So I went there, I drove out the car and he was standing there.
This is the man who was trying to drown me and as I was driving, he saw the registration, CCR, and he lifted his hand, trying to wave.  And I also waved back, so I stopped - I kept on waving for a long time, hooting, and then I drove of to Mtansane. That was the last I saw of him, because  he died thereafter.  So, even the hatred I had just faded away.  So that's why I say God is there and God is with us - we are parents but things may not do - people may not do bad things to others because we've got children, we have got children who we are bringing up.
So today you have allowed me to say everything to you and everything that has been locked in within my heart now, you have allowed me to have a clean breast of - so I am not even embarrassed today.  You can go to my house, you will be surprised  because God is like  those old bottles of wine that used to be closed with a cork and if you were to fill in a bucket with water and then you take that cork and put it into that water, that water will not sink, it will float.  Thank you, I thank you for all you have done for me.

MARY BURTON: I would like to also to thank both of you for coming.  The stories that you have told is a very famous and important one in our  history.  And it's good that the young people should be reminded of what happened in 1960's to all of you.  I'd just like to tell you and others, or remind you and others, that when your case came to Court, before Mr Justice Theron, he was very angry that the case had been brought against you and he said that the spy who was known as X54, the one you have spoken about, had been the center of the whole State case.
And that under cross examination it had become apparent that his answers were quite clearly false and that he was prepared to tell lies.  He admitted that he had lied during a similar trial in Port Elizabeth and the judge said, and I quote his words  It made a person shudder to think that some one, like X54, could be placed in a position  where he had an interest in the arrest of members of the public.  
And I just think of the affect on the lives of those people who, together with you, were charged in that way.  And who had to spend more that a year in prison while you were waiting, only in the end to be released and acquitted of all charges.  So, thank you for coming to tell us about this.  I don't know it you know of the affect - you have told us about the affect on your own lives but of the affect  on the lives of the other members of your group  who went through the same experience with you.

<UNKNOWN>: Is that a question?  He's asking  whether you know anything of what happened to the others that you were with.