Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I'd like you to tell us again your memory of the events of the day, I know you gave bits in your statement if you could just explain what - especially what your role was on that day.

MR STERRENBERG: As I had already said, I heard Major Odendal call out that somebody had thrown a hand grenade - I heard the explosion, virtually simultaneously I moved to the road, I saw a person running down NY111 and I heard Sergeant A Grobbelaar call that the person has a hand grenade.
 At the same time I saw the person running across the intersection NY111 and NY1 with the machine gun firing down in the direction of the Guguletu police station.  At that time my attention was focused on him as I had assumed and I couldn't understand why he was still running because of my colleagues had been in that vicinity, I assumed that of them had been hit or had been killed, and it was for this reason why I fired at him with my shotgun.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Would you say this man was firing towards yourself or away from yourself?

MR STERRENBERG: No he was firing down NY111 in the direction of - in a southerly direction.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you fired at him with your shotgun from a distance?

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Sort of chasing him.

MR STERRENBERG: Following him yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: At what stage did he fall to the ground on - at what point of your shooting did he fall to the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: When he reached near the fence of Murray and Roberts he'd covered virtually the distance of the intersection.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And he fell down, would you say he fell down from the first time you shot him or  [intervention]

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am I had fired seven shots before he fell.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: At what part of his body do you think you were firing the shots seven shots before he fell down.

MR STERRENBERG: It was a shotgun and I was firing in his general direction.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So sort of in his body behind him and he didn't fall until the seventh shot.

MR STERRENBERG: Ja it would be more from the side than from the back.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you firing seven shots  from his side and he is running and firing a gun away from you.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And he is not falling.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So but the seventh shot - he fell to the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes and could you go on please what happened then.

MR STERRENBERG: The person then fell, there was a halt in the firing, I then ran closer - and took shelter behind a tree in NY1.  I looked out and saw the person laying on the ground his feet were towards me - the side of - I could make out the side profile of his face and he seemed to be  looking at me.
At that stage I saw a movement in front of his chest and wasn't sure what he was doing.  I assumed that he was either preparing to throw a hand grenade or turn the weapon in my direction whereupon I fired three shots with my 9mm pistol at this individuals head.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: This person you shot - do you remember who he was - his name?

MR STERRENBERG: No I don't know his - I later learnt his name was Christopher Piet.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Christopher Piet.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Nicknamed Rasta.

MR STERRENBERG: I heard that later on yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So when you shot Rasta and he laid down you saw a movement - a slight movement and you imagined he was still dangerous and he could do something dangerous to you.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And so could you - then you went towards him to shoot him with your other pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: I beg your pardon ma'am will  you just repeat that question.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I am just trying to recapture what you said before that you then continued - you went on to shoot him with your pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: When you saw a movement.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right ja.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And this movement according to your judgements could  have been dangerous to you and to the others.

MR STERRENBERG: At that stage I feared that he could either shoot in my direction or throw the hand grenade yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: In terms of distance between Rasta and yourself, how far do you think you were from Rasta when you fired the pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: About three to four - three to four steps away from him - three to four meters away from him.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Three to four meters from him.  And how many shots did you fire?

MR STERRENBERG: Three simultaneously.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Three simultaneously - and this was so that he does not throw the grenade that you thought he may have.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I just want to ask your indulgence - just to clarify to us your position in relation to Rasta while you fired the shots at him - the first shots you fired and the last shots with your pistol.  There is a map behind you if you may please point out to us.  Can you move is the mike moveable - Solly can - oh! ja - no it'' not okay if you could just point out to us.

MR STERRENBERG: I have been in this position over here, and when I heard Major Odendal call hand grenade had been thrown - heard the explosion I moved towards the road to see what was going on.  At that time I saw the person running down over here and simultaneously saw the person running across the intersection.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: H'm.

MR STERRENBERG: From my position here I fired shots at him while he was running across the intersection.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes.

MR STERRENBERG: And he eventually came to land approximately over here - and it was between- he landed between a tree and the fence.  When there was a lully in the shooting, I ran closer to the tree where I took position behind the tree.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So where - as you were standing you were standing behind him lying down  as you fired the pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: From the position here - ja he was laying - the tree was sort of a - he was laying at a angle to me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Okay so he has your - he is lying on the ground with his face down on the ground.

MR STERRENBERG: With his face turned towards me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: With his face turned towards you and so you could see his hands.

MR STERRENBERG: No I couldn't see his hands at that time as they were underneath his chest.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And your purpose for firing at him was to disable him - I mean so that he does not - he cannot shoot at you.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Or he cannot throw anything at you - so the purpose was to disable - so about three meters from him - you fired the pistol.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And where did you fire - thank  you very much Mr Sterrenberg can be seated.  Where did you point the pistol - what part of his body did you shoot so that you disable him in order that he does not thrown the hand grenade.

MR STERRENBERG: I fired the - I fired the shots at his head.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: At his head.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And in your view this was the best part of his body to fire to make sure that he does not throw the grenade.

MR STERRENBERG: That - I was - I had been taught ma'am the quickest to put a person out of action in a situation like that, was to fire at his head yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I am just wondering now about the language - to put a person out of action - and to disable him, between those two expression what your major intention was - was it to put him out of action or was it to kill him.

MR STERRENBERG: Put him out of action - kill him immediately as quick as possible.