Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-01

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: It was comrade Jeff who actually approached me as a political leader in the region.  He said besides the MK tasks which you are supposed to do in organising for your own, the command for MK trained combatants, there is another task that we also ask you to look into.

MR WILLS: Tell us what happened.

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Then I set out trying to learn from them what is it that I was supposed to do and then he told me that the arms would be coming into the country, in fact, they will be distributed to the SDU's.
	First he gave me the keys for the cars that would be bringing material into Southern Natal and I was to be responsible for setting up structures to ensure that those weapons were infiltrated down into areas, trouble spots where our own people were under attack.

MR WILLS: Who made the decisions as regards where those weapons were distributed on the ground?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: I made all the decisions.

MR WILLS: And that was based on what?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Based on the need for areas that are under attack, to be armed and that is it.

MR WILLS: Now, can you just give us a practical example of when you received a consignment of weapons, what you would do with it?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: I will take the key to where the vehicle was, like Mr Radebe said, that vehicle was parked in Workshop, is it Workshop?
	I went in there, identified the car as it was by explanation that the car would be like this, one, two, three, I went, pick up the car, start it, took out the car, took it down to, I think the first place where I dropped weapons were in Umkababa.  In that area, there was a house which was left by one of our comrades, who was involved in the (indistinct) shootout, he was still operating outside.
	I knew the place very well, and I knew that it was a secure place for us to be able to take out the stuff.  Although we could not bury the stuff during the day, because all was just to take it out, put it in his garage, because the house was abandoned, and then take the car back to the spot where I took it, leave it there and then come back.

MR WILLS: And then what would you do?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: At night, then we go back.  Now we have to organise burying the stuff.  I felt that the best form of securing material in our way, was to bury the stuff.
	No one shall get it.  The way ANC material was wrapped, even sniffer dogs can't get it.  It was done by experts in terms of packaging, I don't know who, but I know, because I have been an operative for a number of years in the ANC, that the stuff was wrapped, the best way was to dig it and put it in.
	So we go there, put it up.

MR WILLS: What would you do with the key for the vehicle?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Keep it with me.

MR WILLS: And then, how many cars were used for this purpose?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: There were three cars.

MR WILLS: Can you describe them briefly?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: One was a van, a Bantam, it was blue in colour with a  white canopy which I used a number of times through roadblocks of the police and which they were never able to detect.
	The stuff in those cars, it ranges, the big one which carried more stuff, was a kombi.  I don't know what you call it, but it is a double cab kombi, VW kombi.
	The smallest of those cars, was the Bantam.  The medium size one was a white one, which was later found in Golela in the border post.

MR WILLS: And the make of that car?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: It was a Rover, a white Rover, yes.

MR WILLS: A Rover.  Inside these cars, where were the weapons kept?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: They were kept in compartments, specially made compartments.
	Let me take for instance the Rover, which is - the police knows about it.  At the back of the Rover, the boot is so deep, so what they have done, they have sealed half of the boot, but if you open the boot, it is a normal boot like any other car, but the way it was done, it has a panel.  That panel to be able to take it out, you've got to have two pins, which were prepared and made and is also sitting in the car.
	You take those two pins, you press it on the side, there were two small holes on the side.  If you don't know about it, you won't even open it, even if you know that there are arms inside.  You press that and there are buttons that will automatically eject the panel and then you will be able to be exposed to the materia inside the car.

MR WILLS: So you were in a position where you actually handled the firearms and you actually saw what was delivered?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the Committee what type of weapons were delivered?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: AK's, grenades.

MR WILLS: When you say grenades, what type of grenades?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Defensive and offensive grenades.  Stechin and Macarov pistols.

MR WILLS: You say defensive and offensive grenades?  Were they F1 grenades?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: F1 is a very effective one, yes which is a defensive grenade.  We only use it when people want really to kill you.
	The offensive one you can actually just throw it to alarm the police.  But if really people are attacking you, you just use the F1 and that is it.

MR WILLS: It wasn't only in the form of vehicles that weapons were delivered.  Mr Phillips has given evidence that sometimes weapons were dropped off at particular sites, and he has indicated that he would get details of this through a map which might be faxed through.
	Would you receive these maps?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And how would you know where these weapons were?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Principles in conspiracy or what is called MCW.

MR WILLS: MCW being?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: Military Combat Work where you are taught to make sketches to understand what it means.  If it is an arrow like this, it means it is a road, if it is a point like this, it means this is where the material is kept.
	If it is like that, we normally innovated so in case even if police knows about it, then you can change signals and then you know this signal means this, and that signal means that.   Within the ordinary geographical map that actually, so I will know, I will pinpoint it exactly where the material is.
	Sometimes you go there and you search, and you don't find it.  If you don't find it, you have to go, try communication back and say no, I didn't find that stuff in the DLB, so they will send it again.
	Ordinance had its own people, even when we were operating outside.  People will go and check, who were responsible for setting up all those DLB's, if there is a problem, it is their responsibility on their own.  They are not known by anyone in anyway, to go and check what had happened with those material.
	Some of the material (indistinct), some of the buildings were built on top of some of them as I have heard from some of our comrades in Swaziland, saying that some of the material, we were not able to retrieve it because buildings have come up in those areas, and then we have lost it.

MR WILLS: Who did you supply these weapons to?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: A number of comrades that I was dealing with.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the Committee?

SIPHO JOEL SITHOLE: One, I had to select comrades that I had trust in.  Mostly it was people that I have dealt with before in exile.
	One of them was comrade Mapumole who was coming from D1212 at Umlazi, a number of people know him.  He was suffering from diabetes at the time.  I struggled with him in exile, I struggled with him inside the country at that time.  He was one of the most disciplined comrades as far as I know.

MR WILLS: You said his name was?