Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

GEORGE DUBE: I had my passport alright.  I passed Swaziland.  From Swaziland you crossed Nomahashe to Mozambique, Maputo.  When I arrived in Maputo I got some other - because I went straight to the camps of Frelimo.  What I had in mind is that if I go to Maputo I know I will get - because there is now a Black government, they won't give me any problems.  I will explain to them that I want to pass, I want to go to Zambia, I want to go and join the liberation movement.
 So when I arrived in Maputo I went straight to the camp there were two guys also in that camp who came from South Africa.  These two fellows they came from Soweto, that was Charles Buthelezi and Nelson Hatlane.  So I stayed with them in the camp.  They are the people who told me that they are going to join ANC. I had little knowledge about ANC.  So after some few weeks because they said they talked with the commander of that camp of Frelimo and the commander said they must wait they are going to consult ANC to come and take them to Tanzania or Zambia where there are ANC offices, headquarters.  So after some few weeks we were taken to a certain prison, that is Cades Seville in Maputo.  So we were surprised why are they taking us to prison these people.
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 G DUBE
So we just stayed there in prison for one and a half months, two months then we were taken out of that prison in Cades Seville.  We were taken to go and join some other refugees who were staying around town under UN, South African refugees and Zimbabwe refugees.  We joined these people then we were taken to a certain bush, bundu called Memo, Memo District in Manjokazi District.  In this district there's a certain place called Memo where these people keep their cattle, there are only kraals there.  Their cattle graze in that area.  Then after locking their cattle up they go to their homes like ten kilometres away from those kraals.  So we were taken to stay there to build our own refugee camp.
 Alright we stayed there because it was just a bush.  We came with zincs from UN and two big pots, a bag of rice and a bag of beans, two bags of beans.  That is what we used to eat almost every day, lunch and supper, no oil and no other relishes.  It was only beans.  So we were given axes, some hose and these zincs and we just made some small shelter for the people which we had.  We had about four females with us, South Africans and one Zimbabwean.  So we made shelter for them, we slept under the trees because we had beds and blankets from the UN. 
 So we started building ourselves houses with reeds because that's the way - that's the way they are building houses there in Mozambique, building with reeds and then on top we put these zincs that we came with.  We opened up fields there, ploughing mealies.  Alright beside that we made some small garden because ...(intervention)
REV. FINCA: Okay let me interrupt you again, I am sorry.  You are going to be testifying to the Commission about abuses which were done to you when you were arrested in the
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 G DUBE
ANC camps so the details about planting mealies may be interesting but it's not relevant to what you are going to be saying.  I would like to take you through the period when you actually joined the ANC and in your statement you said you became the Commander of Umkhonto e'Sizwe, can you just take us through that period please?

GEORGE DUBE: Alright.  We stayed in that camp from January to September in Mozambique.  So Comrade Lennox came to that refugee camp to take people who wanted to join the ANC.  Other people were Zimbabweans wanted to go and join PAC, others BAC, there were three guys from Lesotho who wanted to join BAC.  So he asked us that those who wanted to go and join ANC they must come to him and write names so that he may come here to fetch us two by two or three by three to Tanzania.  So we did that, we who wanted to join ANC. Comrade Lennox recruited us.
 I went to Tanzania to join the ANC.  So I arrived in Dar Es Salaam at Comrade Mashego's house, ANC house, Entemeke(?).  So I found a lot of other fellow countrymen there, young men, that was now after June '76.  These boys I could see that they were the ones who have been fighting Boers there because of this Bantu education.  So I stayed there for almost two weeks in that house.  After that a further Comrade Tambo came to that place and we were chosen being 16 that will be going to France, that's what Comrade Tambo said to us.  So he told me that I am going to be the commander of this group of 16 comrades... Commissar also.  So we were told that tomorrow morning we are going overseas so we mustn't speak our language in the plane until we reach France.
REV. FINCA: In your statement George you mentioned that
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 G DUBE
you were made commander of this battalion of 16, do you still remember any of the people who were in that battalion of 16?

GEORGE DUBE: Yes, I've got comrades whom I still remember, ja, I don't know whether I should mention them.  Ja there was Comrade Disco, Comrade Chikerema, because the time we arrived in that place in Dar Es Salaam, that Comrade Mashego's house, ANC house, we were given pseudonyms, they changed our names.  We were told because of security reasons we mustn't use our names.  I am sure Disco is a pseudonym and Chikerema also it must be a pseudonym, and Tansange and Benjamin, PJ and other comrades also.
REV. FINCA: Those are their pseudonyms, you don't know their real names?

GEORGE DUBE: No, no their real names ...(intervention)
REV. FINCA: Are they still alive?

GEORGE DUBE: Some of them I understand they are still alive.  So when we arrived at the airport in the morning we were given papers, these papers were written out, this station is Luanda, Angola.  So we saw that things have changed, we are no more going somewhere overseas for training.
 So we got in a plane.  There was ...(indistinct) meeting, ...(indistinct) State meeting inside there in Dar Es Salaam so President Neto was there in that meeting.  So I am sure Comrade Tambo asked the President to give us a lift to Angola.  So we went to Angola with his plane, Presidential plane of President Neto.
 So when we arrived in Angola we went to do our training, now in that camp we had a problem, there was no material for reading, they have got Portuguese material only, the comrades don't understand Portuguese, and the 
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 G DUBE
language we don't understand each other properly.  The food their was somehow awkward especially for me because I was suffering with heartburn, till today, still suffering that was that problem.  Also eating beans, myself I don't eat beans, if I eat beans like now somehow tomatoes and bread if I consume that somehow I think I am going to have ulcers, I will be committing suicide.  So now I am forced to be eating that because I am poor, I am not working at the moment, I am staying in the hostel.  So alright I tried to tolerate that and then we were eating fishes, they always eat beans and fish, they like this stuff ...(intervention)
REV. FINCA: Okay, okay George you have made the statement about how bad the food was, what happened ultimately?