Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MR LEWIN: Mr Shabangu, I would like to thank you very much for your very clear and calm telling of that story.
 Could I just ask some questions to clarify some of the points to help us.

EDWARD SHABANGU: With pleasure.

MR LEWIN: Could you tell us a little bit about yourself.  What do you do?  Well, how old are you?  You are considerably older than your sister.

EDWARD SHABANGU: Yes, sir.

MR LEWIN: Can you tell us what you do?

EDWARD SHABANGU: I am a school inspector.

MR LEWIN: Thank you. I would just like to go back to the time where she actually left college and you said went to a meeting in Johannesburg and then went straight through to Swaziland. Had she done this before as part of her activities?

EDWARD SHABANGU: Truthfully speaking, at that time I was not aware of her political affiliations and political organisations.  As the elder brother it was difficult that she could discuss some of the issues with me.  As time went by I discovered that she was working together with her friends.  During that time she left, usually when she came back, she would come via my house before getting to school.

MR LEWIN: Was she staying at home at the time, with her mother?

EDWARD SHABANGU: Please repeat your question, sir.

MR LEWIN: Sorry, when she was at the training college, did she go to the training college from staying at her home with NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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her mother?

EDWARD SHABANGU: No, she has no mother.  She used to come via my place before going to the college.

MR LEWIN: You tell very clearly what happened and why you feel the responsibility for her death lies where you say it lies.  Could I just ask, in your later testimony, you had originally said of the Swaziland police that they said the police from South Africa are murderers.  You then said they said your police are killers or did they say your police are the killers?  Because there is a difference.

EDWARD SHABANGU: They said the South African Police are murderers, we are not tell you what happened.

MR LEWIN: Did they then not themselves make any investigation into this accident which took place in their territory?

EDWARD SHABANGU: We did not get any information about whether Swaziland did make any investigation into the issue. We did not get any information.

MR LEWIN: And there was no follow-up from the South African side, presumably?

EDWARD SHABANGU: No, nothing at all.

MR LEWIN: I ask this, because there have been several incidents mentioned, not in this hearing, but in other hearings, about people dying in cross-border raids.  I just wondered whether there had been any investigation about this incident.

EDWARD SHABANGU: Not to my knowledge.

MR LEWIN: The two companions that were driving and also killed with your sister, do you assume they were also ANC cadres?

EDWARD SHABANGU: Yes, sir.
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MR LEWIN: Do you think that there is any information which you can give us to assist us in trying to find out who was responsible and what the exact circumstances of her death were?

EDWARD SHABANGU: I said during the time when we were in the border there, there was a white man who came to me, who could say I am Mr Shabangu. I do not know him. Secondly, I said the police from Swaziland said, the police from Swaziland are quick to tell the information about the police from South Africa, because they are murderers.  Thirdly, another member who is a member of the security department, gave us a letter with the instruction that we need not conduct the funeral on Saturday but Friday.  Those are the arguments or reasons that we can say.  You can investigate from there.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.  Before handing back to the Chair, I would just like to say that you mentioned in passing the possibility of because you might name someone, of putting yourself under threat. I would like to submit that the fact that you have come forward and also the fact that this hearing is taking place here, that we are being as open possible, is an indication, not only that we are holding the hearings, but that we are following up with our own investigative unit, which should issue, I think, a warning to people, that they should not carry out unnecessary threats.  Not only the person you mentioned, whose name we do have but others.  Thank you very much, Mr Chabangu.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabangu, I am going to ask the other Commissioners if they want to ask you any questions.   Mr Malan?
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MR MALAN: Mr Shabangu, the two other bodies that you saw when you identified your sister's body, you didn't recognise at the time. Have you since been informed as to who the individuals were?

EDWARD SHABANGU: During that time I didn't know, but now I know that the other one, I have just forgotten the name, but the surname is Mohali.  The other one I only know the name, he was Thabu.

MR MALAN: They were also South Africans?

EDWARD SHABANGU: Yes.

MR MALAN: Where were they buried?  Do you know anything about their funerals?  Did it take place at the same time more or less?

EDWARD SHABANGU: They were not buried here, but they were from Johannesburg.

MR MALAN: Thank you.  From my part I have no further questions.  We will follow up, we have some information.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: Mr Shabangu, I want to ask just one question, where you said that your sister was attending at a college of education.  Maybe there is something that you got from the people who are responsible for the college, as people responsible for the college.

EDWARD SHABANGU: Yes, I can give you perhaps the contact numbers and perhaps they can give you more information.

MS MKHIZE: I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabangu, I would like to thank you for sharing your story with us today.  One of the categories of gross human rights violations that the Truth Commission has to investigate is the question of violations that took place in other countries as well.  We know that because of the
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activity on the borders of this country, that a number of people, particularly young people, were killed in these cross-border raids.  We have as the person who led your evidence, Mr Lewin, has said, we will be looking into this.  We are already compiling reports on a number of these cross-border raids.  As soon as we are able to give you information, we will do that. We thank you for the way in which you have given your evidence, and also at the kind of courage that has been shown by you through this process.  We thank you for coming here today.

EDWARD SHABANGU: It is a pleasure.

CHAIRPERSON: We have now come to the end of the proceedings for today.  However, I want to ...
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