Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-15

LOYANDA MOLESHE: Capt Sawuti, because he was an officer, he was a commissioned officer, we associated them with him, not as individuals but because of his position, because he was a commissioned officer we associated all of them with him.

MR NOMPOZOLO: So you did not care whether he was against Brig Gqozo, as long as he was a commissioned officer, then he was on the side of Brig Gqozo?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: Every commissioned officer, we'd take him to the hall and he was also a commissioned officer at that time.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Mr Chairman, I don't wish to mislead the applicant.  I understood Mr Mfene to be saying that - sorry -Mr Nkwenkwe to be saying that he went to Brig Gqozo with others in the evening and came back and told the meeting that Brig Gqozo has resigned.

LOYANDA MOLESHE: I wouldn't dispute that, that he went to him, but I don't know about that, I didn't hear about it and I didn't see him when he was leaving.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Is it also correct that had Mr Sawuti resisted you, you would have forcefully taken him?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: That is correct.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Nompozolo.  Ms Collett have you got any questions?

MS COLLETT: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mapoma any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Sir, no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Has the panel got any questions?
Thank you.  Have you got any re-examination Mr Obose?

MR OBOSE: Just one issue Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR OBOSE: Now you say soldiers got to the meeting and it became apparent that they were still pro Gqozo and there was some disagreement and they were told to leave, or at least left.  Just briefly what was this disagreement or around which issue in particular?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: What happened is when the soldiers arrived they went in and they were given a chance to speak and whilst they were speaking we found out that these people didn't want Gqozo to be removed, they wanted him to continue, so the police told them to leave because they were not agreeing with them.

MR OBOSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER RE-EXAMINATION BY MR OBOSE

ADV BOSMAN: May I just, following on that, ask one question?
Were there any soldiers who actually joined you in the hall as part of the security, as one witness put it?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: Yes, there were soldiers that came there driving military vehicles.  Those are the soldiers that I am saying they were given a chance to speak at the hall but we found out that we are not saying the same thing.  They wanted Gqozo to continue, they didn't want him to be removed, that is when the conflict came.  We then released them, we told them to leave.

ADV BOSMAN: My question is actually, were there soldiers that stayed, that joined you in your objective that Gqozo should be removed?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: No.  Those that were in the hall, they left.

DR TSOTSI: You say that some of the soldiers who spoke in the hall there you found out that they were not really with you, supporting you, what did they say which made you realise that they were not supporting you?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: What happened is, as the hall was full, there were others inside, there were others outside, I heard that from someone who was coming inside the hall, he said that these soldiers wanted Gqozo to continue so they must leave.  I didn't hear that directly from a soldier, I heard it from a comment from a police who was coming from inside saying that these soldiers were for Gqozo, they were not against him.

DR TSOTSI: So you yourself don't know whether or not the question of Gqozo's resignation was raised at the meeting?

LOYANDA MOLESHE: No, what I heard was people shouting "Down with Gqozo", they were singing.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Moleshe you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Obose.

MR OBOSE: That will be the last witness for today Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  We have heard the testimony of 7 of the applicants.  We obviously are intent on concluding this application in this session and to that end we are going to let the matter stand down until Thursday morning and we intend to conclude the matter on Thursday, so we would like to prevail on you to ensure that the remaining applicants are in attendance here on Thursday so that we can finalise their matters.

MR OBOSE: Yes, I'll do my best Mr Chairman, certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: And perhaps you can impress the urgency and importance of that on your clients when you are in touch with them and if it's necessary you can convey that to the authorities if
you need to get the assistance of some of the authorities in the police to ensure their attendance here.  you can impress upon those in authority that the remaining applications might very well be prejudiced if they don't ensure that everything is made possible for those remaining applicants to actually come through here and to attend and to have their matters heard.

MR OBOSE: I'll do so Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Under those circumstances, we are postponing the proceedings until Thursday morning and we will reconvene in this venue at 9 o'clock in the morning.  We're adjourned until Thursday 9 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS