Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-16

UNKNOWN: Were they aware of the fact that you were to rob the vehicle for the purpose of obtaining money to buy weapons?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Now what is your attitude at this point in time, in regard to the political situation in the country?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Well I regret the action that we took at the time, but it was all because of the circumstances at the time.  I do realise that it was not good to go and harm other people for political objectives.

UNKNOWN: What is your attitude towards the police now?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: There is a difference between the way they operated then and the way they operate now, so I cannot regard them as a problem at present.

UNKNOWN: What is your attitude now towards the victims?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I feel remorse for that person and I would like to pass my sincere apologies for that act and I would like to say to him that I am very sorry for what I did.

UNKNOWN: I have received a fax from one of the victims who objects to you being granted amnesty, and he states that should you be granted freedom again, you will return to what he describes as your murderous ways.  What do you have to say to that?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I would say I have already explained the circumstances under which the act happened, it was a political situation between the ANC and the IFP.  And it is clear that at present that situation does no longer prevail, so there will be no need for me to partake in such instances.  And my presence here is to indicate that I am no longer that person, or I would no longer take part in such acts.

UNKNOWN: I see.  When you committed this crime, did you do so for any personal benefit or any personal gain?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No, there was no gain that we were going to receive.  From the information that I received from the commander, there was no benefit that I was going to get.

UNKNOWN: What happened to the monies that were in fact taken at the time of the robbery?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The police recovered the money after our arrest.  As I explained before, we were arrested on the very same day, so they confiscated that money.

UNKNOWN: That is the evidence, Mr Chairman, of the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR HARKOO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Harkoo.  Mr Mapoma, questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson.
	How did you become a member of the SDU?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: There was a war in the area and problems in protecting the community were established and there was a need to people who would volunteer to protect the community, and that is how I also became part of that programme.

UNKNOWN: Sorry.  Mr Hlongwane, I don't you are answering the question Mr Mapoma is asking you, your answer is just a restatement of the background.  How did you yourself become a member of the SDUs?  You've told us about the background, at what stage did someone approach you or did you go to someone and say "I want to be a member of the SDUs", what happened?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: There was a person who came with this idea that there was a need to protect the community.  He explained that we will be protecting the community and when he made that explanation I was also convinced that that was the correct thing to do.

UNKNOWN: Who was this person?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Mr Pumlani Buthelezi.

MR MAPOMA: Were you related to Pumlani Mthembu(sic)?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No.

UNKNOWN: Did he know you before he came to approach you to say that you should also take part in the SDUs?  Had he known you before?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Yes, he did.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Sir.
	How did he know you?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: We resided in one area, so that is how we knew each other.

MR MAPOMA: Were you a card-carrying member of the ANC?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No, I did not.

MR MAPOMA: Did you belong to a particular branch of the ANC, or did you attend any meetings of the ANC?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Yes, there were meetings that I attended and after such meetings, when I'd already joined the SDU, I did obtain a membership card.

ADV BOSMAN: The question was whether you belonged to a particular branch.  Did you belong to a particular branch and which branch?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The eZakheni branch.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Ma'am.
	Now did you receive any training in the use of arms?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No.

MR MAPOMA: Are you saying that the SDUs of eZakheni were not trained in the use of firearms?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: There were not sufficient firearms for that training, but we were told or instructed on how to use the firearms to protect ourselves.  So we did not have firearms that were used for training, but we were informed as to how to protect ourselves with the firearms.

MR MAPOMA: You were informed by whom?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Mr Mshishi Nzimande.

MR MAPOMA: Where is Nzimande now?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: He is late.  He died during that war.

MR MAPOMA: Is the only person that informed you on how to use these firearms?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The person I regarded as having knowledge was him, but there were others who would put in a word or two.

MR MAPOMA: Are those others alive?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I think so because I had never heard anything with regard to their death.

UNKNOWN: Just explain something - sorry, Mr Mapoma.
	How did Mr Nzimande die, was he killed in the course of this conflict, was it a natural death or how did it come about that he died?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: He died in that war between the ANC and the IFP.  There was an exchange of gunfire and he was hit.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Sir.
	When Mashishi died, were you already in prison?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: It was on the 24th of October 1992.

MR MAPOMA: Where were you then?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I was out on bail.

MR MAPOMA: Now Ntjali and Zulu, the persons with whom you conducted the robbery, were they members of the SDU as well?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

MR MAPOMA: Who recruited them?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I do not have knowledge thereof, but I knew them as members of the SDU.

ADV BOSMAN: Were they charged with you, and convicted of the robbery?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Are they also still in prison?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Do you know whether they've applied for amnesty?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I learnt of it now that they have never applied for amnesty.

ADV BOSMAN: Have you seen any of them since you've applied for amnesty?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No, I'd never see them because we are incarcerated in different prisons.

ADV BOSMAN: So I take it you have no idea why they have not applied for amnesty.

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No, I do not know.

UNKNOWN: Just on that.  At page 31, I see that Andries Bheki Nkosi Ntjali says he did not apply for amnesty for this incident, he did however apply for amnesty for other things and he says he was not a member of any political organisation.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chairperson, I was just coming to that person.
	What is your comment to what Ntjali has said in a statement to the TRC Investigator?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: What I can comment on is what I know.  When I approached him before we went out to carry out the act.  I think he's the person who would be better placed to explain as to why he wrote that, but my knowledge is that we were in one organisation and we operated in the SDUs together.

MR MAPOMA: Do I understand you to be saying that what he's told the TRC Investigator, in a statement dated the 7th October 1999, was not true?  When he said that
"I was not a member of the SDUs in eZakheni, I was not a member of any political organisation."

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The truth is he has never explained or revealed to me that he is not a member of the organisation, so I regard that statement as not being the truth, it's a lie.