Amnesty Hearings — Mabopane — 1998-08-06

MR POTSANE: I was satisfied that the work that we wanted to accomplish has been accomplished well.  I felt satisfied.

MR MOLOPE: I have no further questions Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOLOPE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Molope.
	Mr Lengane, do you have any re-examination?

MR LENGANE: No re-examination Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman, do you have any questions to put to the witness?

ADV BOSMAN: No, questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Motata, do you have any questions?

ADV MOTATA: I've got none, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Sigodi?

ADV SIGODI: I've got no questions Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van den Berg?

MR LENGANE: Mr Chairman, may I request a short adjournment, no more than five minutes, just to discuss what we want to do next.  There is an applicant and there is also a witness whom we wish to call and I just want to decide finally on the order.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly Mr van den Berg.  We will take a short adjournment.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR VAN DEN BERG: If I may call Mr Lehobye.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I'm not interfering with the manner in which my learned friend would like to conduct his case but Mr Chairman, the normal way is that applicants testify and the witness can come after.  One can divert and do it the way my learned fried wants to do it, but we must be given reasons why we are to be exposed to this type of a procedure.  There are to be reasons for such a move Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr van den Berg?

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Lehobye is here today, he is not available to-morrow.  He has said that it would be possible for him to be available to-morrow but that he would have to make some quite extensive arrangements to do so and I thought as we had half an hour left today it would probably be convenient to dispose of his evidence now rather than inconvenience him to-morrow.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it seem an acceptable reason Mr van den Berg.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, could you please give us your full names?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: Malosi ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell your surname please?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any objection in taking the oath?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: (sworn states)

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Lehobye, you are a member of the community here at Winterveld in Mabopane, is that correct?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: That is correct.

MR VAN DEN BERG: You were politically active in this area, firstly as a student and a student leader in the late 1970's and during the course of the 1980's, is that correct?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: That is correct.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Could you give the Committee just a very brief personal background of your involvement politically in this area?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: May political involvement in this area dates back to 1976 when I was a student at Randylane(?) High School and that was during the time when the late Batachana Mokwena, Tayle Mohema, Advocate Huma came to Randylane as teachers from Terflu(?).  They influenced us a lot and that was during the time of Steve Biko and Randylane as a high school in Ga-Rankuwa was a hive of political activity.  That is when I started my political life.

MR VAN DEN BERG: You were involved in your school SRC and later a student leader in this area?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: That is correct.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Were you ever detained?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: I have been detained many times.

MR VAN DEN BERG: In the process of that detention, did you ever come into contact with Brigadier, or he was then a Colonel Molope?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: He was a Colonel yes.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Colonel Molope?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: Yes, I did.  I must explain that this a very difficult task for me to do Honourable Judge, in that I knew Tata Molope firstly as a parent to children that I grew up with, we were in the church but at the same time I knew Tata Molope as the policeman and being a student activist I was obviously on the other side of the line which made it very difficult and even now it is very difficult to be testifying in front of Tata Molope's family.
	I have been involved as a student leader and I remember vividly in 1980 when I led the students at Megakasi High School.  Firstly, after I was detained in 1978 I was expelled at Rondylane and I came to Pelotona in Mabopane.  
	The following year 1980 I went to Megakasi High School where I led a student revolt and Tata Molope being the type of a commander who would be at the forefront of his men, was actually commanding the battalion or the group of policemen who attacked us at Megakasi High School.
	As a leader I approached him and tried to plead with him.  He had a baton which baton he forced into my mouth and such things happened on a number of occasions when I was detained.
	Like I say, he was a type of commander who would be at the forefront of his men.  So I knew Tata Molope in that way.  Of course I knew him as a father to children I grew up with.  One of Tata Molope's kids, Fabre(?) was actually detained with me in '78 before she skipped the country, and we were in the same class.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Did you discuss your experiences with your fellow students, with your fellow comrades?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: Yes, we discussed it, not only in school but even at home.  It must be understood that not only did Tata Molope lead his men, when his men, when it came to student uprisings.  When you hard anything that in the eyes of the then, of that government was opposing government then the police would come down heavily on our people.
	Like I was saying, Tata Molope was commanding those people.  He was doing his work, he was not sending people he was going there himself, making sure that when he issues out a command it is followed to the letter.  That is why you heard earlier on that you would see him as a very high-ranking officer but you find him at roadblocks because he would want things to be done.

MR VAN DEN BERG: These experiences that you've related, were they unique to you or were they shared with other people?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: They were not unique to me, it was a general, actually Tata Molope generally was known as a policeman who led the police and he was very, very - with due respect to the family, but notorious in this area.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DEN BERG

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I have no questions Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Molope?

MR MOLOPE: I'm still thinking.
	What is your name?

MALOSI LEHOBYE: Malosi Lehobye.

MR MOLOPE: Mr Lehobye, at the time when those things happened when you were a student leader, you said what Mr Molope did to you.

MALOSI LEHOBYE: In 1980 I was a leader of the students in Megagatsi High School, we had a strike.  Mr Molope came with the police.  Without talking to us, we assembled at the assembly area and I was addressing those students when Mr Molope and his police arrived, then he gave an instruction that we should be beaten.
	When the students were beaten I went to him then I wanted to talk to him because according to me it was not necessary for the police to interfere with the school issues because those issues were not political, because we were saying why in Megagatsi, because it's an old school, we who come from the townships we should pay building funds.  We were asking for what building fund?  The principal called the police and then the police started beating the students.  I was doing what a leader was supposed to do.  I approached him so that I should request to him that I don't see a reason why the police should do what they were doing.  Then what your parent did, he pushed his baton in my mouth then he said: "Shut up because" and he knew me.  It's what he did on that day.

MR MOLOPE: Mr Lehobye, the time you are referring to I was a student then.