Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-06

MR KNOETZE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	General, could I take you to page 882, and please read paragraphs 13 and 14.
GEN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN
"The JOC:  The JOC is the Joint Operational Management Centre.  I hold you responsible for the effective functioning and management of the JOC. In this regard you must act within the framework of the State Security Council Secretariat's policy rules and regulations, orders and instructions.  As far as JOC's activities are concerned, you have to liaise directly with the Secretariat.  However, you must constantly keep me informed of those matters where the SA Defence Force is directly involved and you must pro-actively contribute to preventing a revolutionary climate in your area of responsibility.
	14:	The GBR:  (That is the Joint Management Council)  I hold you responsible for the effective functioning and management of the joint system as far as the Transkei and the Ciskei is concerned.  In this regard you have to act within the policy framework and the orders and instructions as contained in this particular document.

INTERPRETER: The speaker is mentioning the number of the document of 15 April 1983.

MR KNOETZE: General, at that stage whilst you were in Port Elizabeth, in command, who was your commander or your chief?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: It was General Geldenhuys who was the Chief of the Defence Force and he was my commanding officer at the time that I received this order.

MR KNOETZE: And who was the Chief of the Defence Force at that stage?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: It was General Geldenhuys.  He was Chief of the Defence Force in 1983, and he also signed as Chief of the Defence Force there.  He was a Lieutenant-General.  May I add that General Geldenhuys was later succeeded by General Liebenberg as Chief of the Defence Force.

MR KNOETZE: Thank you.  Then also if you would go to page 884 and please tell us briefly what that refers to.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, that deals with the units and formations under my command in 1983.  Those were the units and headquarters as indicated here and later further units and headquarters were allocated to me.

MR KNOETZE: Apart from the fact that you were the Commanding Officer of the Eastern Province Command, did you also wear other hats so to speak, were you also responsible for other things?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: As already indicated in paragraph 14 of the command directive, I was also the joint Chairperson of the Joint Management System between South Africa and the Republic of Ciskei and the joint Chairperson of the Joint Management Council with Transkei.  Apart from the GBR Chairperson or the Chair that I had there, I was also the Chairperson of the Eastern Province Joint Command System, the JOC.

MR KNOETZE: At that stage who did you have to report to in respect of those two systems?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: In respect of my Commanding Officer Eastern Province position, I was directly told to report to the Chief of the Defence Force.  And in respect of my appointment as the Chairperson of the JMC with Transkei and Ciskei, I had to report to the Minister of Defence, General Malan.  As my appointment as the Chairperson of the Joint Management System, I had to report to the Secretariat of the State Security Council.

MR KNOETZE: Mr Chairman, a copy of the document which indicates the General's tasks in respect of the "GBS Stelsel" is being made now.  It will be available in half a minute I hope, and I would like to hand it in at this stage.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

MR KNOETZE: General, the document placed in front of you now, could you please refer to that and explain it to the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we should perhaps number this document seeing it's not part of the bundle.  Would this be Exhibit C?

MR KNOETZE: It would, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And then - I'm just trying to think of what we can number these two big volumes.  Perhaps they can be Exhibit C, the two volumes, the 917 pages.  So we will refer to, if you refer to page 80, it will be C880 or C884 or whatever.  And then we'll call this document that's just been handed in, I've got two here actually, one at the top there's a stamp saying "Geheim", will that be Exhibit D?

MR KNOETZE: As you please, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the other document?  Oh that's page 881, sorry.  These are just our missing pages.  These two volumes will be collectively called Exhibit C and this document that's just been handed in now "Bestuursvoorskrif" will be Exhibit D.

MR KNOETZE: As you please, Mr Chairman.
	General, could I please refer you to document D, and please in a nutshell explain to the Committee what it is.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: This is a document similar to the command orders which I received from the Secretariat of the State Security Council.

MR KNOETZE: And also in a nutshell could you explain to us what the task of the JMC was, or more specifically your task.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: The JMC was a Joint Management Centre for the co-ordinating of the State Security Council's normalisation and stabilisation plans.

MR KNOETZE: And who participated in that system?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Each and every State department as represented in the particular region.  They appointed a senior representative to serve on this JMC.

MR KNOETZE: And General, if we look at the sentence right at the bottom of page 2 of the bundle, it there indicates that since the 31st of May 1984 you, you retired as from that date?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that's correct.

MR KNOETZE: And if we look at page 3 of your application in the bundle, you apply for amnesty today for any offences or any delicts which you may have committed and which is based on your involvement arising from Plan Katzen?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that is correct.

MR KNOETZE: And as far as Plan Katzen is concerned, the particulars of that plan are contained in a document which appears at page 9.
	With your leave, Mr Chairman, I would prefer not to move on to that at this stage, but rather to deal with
the documents in bundle C.
	I'd like to then refer you to page 693.  Could you please start by telling the Committee what the nature and the status of this document is.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, that is a submission which was made by General Malan to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

MR KNOETZE: Are you referring to General Magnus Malan?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR KNOETZE: And you've already indicated that he was your Minister of Defence during the time that you were in charge of the Eastern Province Command.

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR KNOETZE: I'd like to refer you to page 700 of this document, paragraph 3.2.  It reads
"The members of the previous government, with a few exceptions such as Mr PW Botha, avoided taking a clear comprehensive, collective, political and moral responsibility for the actions of the South African Defence Force and its members.
	I as former Chief of the South African Army, Chief of the South African Defence Force and Minister of Defence, wish to state clearly before this Commission that I take moral responsibility for the actions of members of the Army and the South African Defence Force during the respective periods which I was involved, and for the execution of the tasks of the South African Defence Force to uphold the then constitution and to preserve the sovereignty of the Republic of South Africa."
What is your comment, as far your own position is concerned, regarding General Malan's statement?

CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, I support and endorse what General Malan says here, and like him I accept responsibility for the actions of members in my command in the carrying out of their orders.