Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Sangweni, you are a very courageous mother.  You are like the hen which does not fail to provide for its chickens.  For a mother like you having no stable job to be able to see that the children go to school is  something to be commended.  We have noted here everything about your story and about the education of your children and we want to pay tribute to Mr Motseke who when you didn't have R45,00 to pay for the school fees for your children accepted R20,00, saw your condition.  He indeed needs to be commended.  I wish all the principals of schools would look in the context surrounding their pupils.  This is a very good model of a principal and if you see him say that we really commended him for the action which he took.  How is your health - yours?

WITNESS:   I'm not as healthy as before.  Just immediately after the death of my son I was affected by high blood, I had a cardiac problem, I had ulcers and my eyes began to be weak.  I was a person who was sewing but thereafter I'm not able to see clearly and I'm not able to read.  That's why I'm struggling with my work because I'm even affected for work because I'm not able to do that work correctly.  So I'm saying like that.  I used to go to Dr Podjee(?) after the death of my son in 1990 up to the end of that year.  Then I went back to Zimbabwe.  Even under those problems in Zimbabwe.  As long as I'm still a live and the little cents I get is to take care of my children to as to further their studies so that I will be able to give them a better life.  Then I've got always to keep on trying to take care of my children and I thank God for caring for me under those problems.  What gives me a problem is that when they look for the school fees.

CHAIRPERSON: Take your time, Mama.  I can feel the load you're carrying.  It's only a mother, a good mother, who can carry it.

WITNESS:   My children all the time when they go  to school you will see the among other students, that they are not children who are well kept for because that gives me a problem because they're not able even to study under good conditions.  Their clothes are always sewed and their shoes are old and all the time they are wearing old clothes.  I feel this pain because if this person is really responsible for killing the brother to my children, I don't know as to whether he did say how this came about.  The person I had hoped that he would be the breadwinner and be responsible for his younger brothers and sisters.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama.  By the way did you say the police, Mr Monei, who killed your son, you don't know where he is?

WITNESS:   I last heard of him from the Comrades.  I'm not able to ask but I learnt he's in Odendaalsrus.  I'm not sure as to whether he's in town or in the location.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama, thank you very much for coming forward to tell your sad story and I know that this must also have affected the other children by losing their brother which means that maybe they themselves would need a kind of treatment from the trauma they received.  We're noting some of the things from your story which we may use as a recommendation when we pass your story to the government and we shall also try and see if we cannot trace where Mr Monei is who killed your son so that he can also come forward and tell the story why he caused such terrible pain the family in which you find yourselves now.  That will be very important for us and we may also want to get the proper true story from Mr Bester whether that is true that these children were  burning the houses and tractors so that everything is put into the right perspective.  Anyway thank you very much for coming.  Are there any people who want to say something.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, just one question.  Mrs Sangweni, have you approached local social workers and applied for a possible maintenance grant or whatever assistance they can give you?

WITNESS:   I did go to the clinic to make an application and I was given maize meal - I was given 2,5kg of porridge and a small bottle of fish oil and one pack of beans.  Since I was given that pack on that day I haven't got it again.

MR DLAMINI: At the clinic did you speak to the nursing staff or social workers?

WITNESS:   I did talk to the nurses of the clinic.

MR DLAMINI: May I suggest that you also ask them to refer you to local social workers and see whether you cannot get additional help from the Welfare office as well.

WITNESS:  Thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions?  (No further questions)  Thank you very much.  We have people here Mrs Sangweni who could help you to get to these places.  We've got the co-ordinator here in this region in the name of Mr Pitso and we have also the support system people who can help you, like the NGOs, so that you have contact.  I know sometimes it is difficult, as person of your age to get to these people but we have set up a system here which can help you to get to these people.  Thank you very much for coming.

WITNESS:   I also thank you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Now, may we have Pulane Aaron Mutsi to come forward.
EXCHANGE OF GREETINGS BETWEEN CHAIRMAN AND WITNESSES

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming to tell us about your stories but I see that you are three.  May I know who is Pulane among you?

MRS PULANE: I am Pulane.

CHAIRPERSON: And what are the names of these other two?

MRS PULANE: It's Silo Ditebe and Patrick Machede.  They are the witnesses to the incident that befell my son Sipho Philip Mutsi.

CHAIRPERSON: Patrick who?

MRS PULANE: Patrick Machede on the far left and this one is Ditebe.

CHAIRPERSON: Will they also be helping you by saying something?

MRS PULANE: That's correct, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, that means then they have also to take an oath.  (The three witnesses take the oath)

PULANE MUTSI: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you very much.  Again I want to commend the witnesses.  You know, when thing have happened ... (inaudible) ... they don't want to tell what they saw.  So I want commend you for your courage, that you could some and tell us as eyewitnesses what you saw.  Now, the person who is going to lead this process as you tell your stories is Mr Mdu Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I greet you.

WITNESS:   Good afternoon, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Chairman, for your information according to my  records Mr Ditebe is now the mayor of Odendaalsrus.  And I'm sure the Chairman will acknowledge your presence afterwards.  He as been asking for local leadership to be introduced to him when they are around, that's why I'm mentioning that.  If you didn't like ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I'd better do it now.  Mr Ditebe, you're really qualified to be mayor.  You're really qualified.  You've got the credentials of being a mayor.  You're going to be a very good model as a mayor.  I want to recognise you.  We recognises your presence here even apart from being a witness but as a mayor among us.  Thank you for coming.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Ditebe is going to help by telling us as to what happened, when Irene's son was in detention,  May I establish Patrick which part of the story you will be helping in so that I'm able to draw you in at an appropriate time?

MR MACHEDE: That was the time deceased was in the cell and assaulted.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Would you please hand over the mike to the mother please.  Mama Mutsi, before we start we always like to hear about your family.  Do you have a husband?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have a husband.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you married before or you were never married?

WITNESS:   I was never married but I had a friend and we have a few children but we were not legally married.

CHAIRPERSON: That is fine.  And do you have any other children except the late ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I have three daughters.