Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-20

NANCY XATULA: I travelled with Mrs Gonie with the security car and they said they were borrowed by this Blackcat.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Is it the second time that they visited you with the car?

NANCY XATULA: Yes.  We went along together, but we were in our own car and then I was ordered to go together with my sister in this car belonging to the Security Officers.  I was surprised to listen to the songs which are, which were
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taped and were in the recorder.  I did not associate these songs with the Security Officer because as there was a one piece which was born to suffer.  This hurt me a lot.  I really could not associate the police officers with these types of songs because they were freedom songs.  
 We reached the destination at Bizana at the security and we did not go where Leo was.  We were forced to go to the Security Officer.  Blackcat informed us that that is where we are going to know where Leo was.  Before we reached Bizana I asked who killed Leo and how was he killed?  This gentleman said to me there was a coincidence.  He was got by a stray bullet otherwise the bullet was not directed to him.  It was just there was a skirmish in Bizana and the police were just shooting.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Did he tell you who shot your nephew?

NANCY XATULA: Yes.  I want to mention that Aga's mother also came and she said to me, please if you go and identify your nephew, please try to identify and find out if you can find my son.  There was another lady also who said I must also identify Lizo, her son.  All these were the children who disappeared.  Lizo is now on, is on a wheelchair.  He did not die.  We reached our destination and then the police who were in the offices came out.  There were two Boers.  They were always amongst the other policemen.  I asked Blackcat who could be responsible for the death of my nephew.  He said I was present, but it was not me.  Just accept what I am saying to you that a stray bullet just hit him.  The policemen that we were together with are those who are at Bizana.  I asked him who was the other one who was there?  He said Damasa was one of them.  He took me to Dumisa.  I asked Ndabisa what happened.  He repeated the same story and UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
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said it was a coincidence.  It was a stray bullet that hit Leo because they were looking for one of the boys, not Leo.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Did he tell you whom they were looking for?

NANCY XATULA: No, I was informed when I reached the mortuary.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Who were they looking for?

NANCY XATULA: The codename of this was Zola.  Mine was Zolilie, my nephew.  My nephew would say he is Zolilie Mesekwa, that was his codename.  I knew that Zola was not his real name during the time when we went to bury my nephew.  His real name was Mfundo.  He was Mfundo Faku.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Then what happened after you came out of the Security Offices?

NANCY XATULA: We went to the hospital in the mortuary.  When I got there I was allowed to get inside and I found another policeman who was called Gilile.  I think he was the Station Commander.  When I got in the mortuary I could see a person in the corner, but he was covered with a sheet.  I could see that this one was shot and you could see that he was a bit stout.  His feet were out, but you could see that his feet were very shot.  I was ordered that I should go and identify that one.  When I looked, before I could even look him on the face I could see that his feet were not belonging to Leo and then I was ordered to go out if I said it was not him.
 When I went out Blackcat approached me.  He said please you must not cry.  I am appealing to you, please, just ask very properly and try to get as much information as possible.  Try to identify, please do not cry because we will not be able to identify him very well.  After some time I was given an opportunity to get inside.  There were two other bodies.  The second body was also covered with the 
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sheet, but I could see the feet were also exposed.  When I looked through, I just looked through and I could see and identify Leo with his feet.  Then I said the feet belong to him, but I was going to look and identify him.  Then I tried top identify.  When I looked his hands I could see that the rigour was setting in.  When I looked at the hands and the feet I could see that they really belonged to him.  I started to uncover him and I could see that one eye was open and his mouth was also open.  It was really Leo.  The only difference was that he had no moustache before he left our place, but now he had beard and a moustache, but I could identify him and see that it was Leo.  
 When I was looking at him I could only see one scar which was on the forehead.  I wanted to know what was the cause, what hit him on the forehead.  You could see that there was a depression here and you could see that he was cleaned already and there was a plaster which was covering the wound.  Nobody answered me.  I looked the throat and I could see that he appeared to have been hung.  It seemed as if he was, he had hanged.  You could see scars and visible marks on the throat and I received no response and nobody cared to reply me.  When I looked at the arms I could see that, you could see that there were fractures.  You could see black scars on the arms especially the upper arms.  Each time I wanted to know what caused these and nobody ever responded to me and then I was very angry.  I removed the cover and threw it aside.  When I looked at the eye on the, in the nipple on the left side you could see that something was oozing and then I turned him over, but you could see that there was a very small hole.  I asked them did you use any sharp instrument to pierce him or was he stabbed and 
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nobody answered me.  I looked at the ankles and you could see that he was fastened.  There were scars.  The other leg seemed to have fractured.  The first thing I prayed, but I can just say I insulted them severely, I used the most abrasive language that I could think of.  I could see that they were frightened because I was not closing my eyes.  I was just insulting them and talking about the atrocities that they were inflicting on people.  One policeman Gilile answered and said he was shot.  I asked him who shot him and he said I do not know.  I just saw the body here.  I asked him why do you come and inform me that he has been shot and then you say you do not know.  He did not give me an accurate answer.  At the end I went out.  
 I would like to mention and say there are many, there are two compartments in this section.  On the other section I could see many bodies, they were covered.  If I could count I think there were about six or seven.  There were not less than six, but they were not above seven.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you know whose bodies were these?

NANCY XATULA: I knew these bodies for after a while when I was always going to the inquest, it is when we came back with Blackcat from Bizana.  I asked him who are the others?  He said they were the people who were together with Leo when he was shot dead.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you remember any name?

NANCY XATULA: I can remember Mike's name, but I did not know his surname.  I cannot remember all of their names, but I remember the other one was from the Mako family and then they asked me did I know any people from the Mako family.  I said I did not know anybody from the Makos.  They also asked me about the people from the Madalana family and then
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I said, no, I did not know anybody from the Madalana family.

MEMBER OF PANEL: After you identified the body what happened?