Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-20

MR LAX: Sorry, there's stuff he mentioned there that you haven't translated for us, about takes 15 rounds and it has a long barrel and it was a parrabellum.  Please you must try and interpret all of that otherwise we're going to miss out on that.

INTERPRETER: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue please.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: It was a 9mm parrabellum like the one carried by the policeman near him and it was a long one.  I do not refer to a 9 shot but a 9 long.

MR MCHUNU: You can go ahead, proceed.
MR GWAMANDA
"One day he told me that we should go to the Ndwedwe Police Station and that's where I discovered that Ndwedwe policemen were killers.  They would hold meetings at the police station.  Some of those meetings are recorded in this statement, some of them are not.  The policemen that I will mention who were involved: Mr Gipa Gumede, Vuzmate, Nzama, Sabata ..."
...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Are these the names that appear on page 16 in the bundle?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Page 21.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that in paragraph 21 of your affidavit?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR GWAMANDA
"There was Mfayela who was a member of the then kwaZulu Government, Dingele who was also an MP at the then kwaZulu Government, Sergeant Gipa Gumede, Detective Nzama, Nduduzi Gumede, Wiseman Gumede, Sabata, I knew him as Sabata, and Kekingiba, Simon Mfayela, Veva and Vuzmati.  There was also Stolz.  There would be meetings in this police station.  Some of them were Special Constables, that is reserve policemen.  The people from Ndwedwe know whom I'm referring to when I talk of Special Constables, they know how they were at the time.  Mfayela was telling them that ANC members should be killed because at that time the election was being proposed.  He was telling them that everyone should vote for the IFP and he mentioned people's names, including a taxi owner who was supposedly transporting people at Somkomo.  This person was supposed to be an ANC member and was supposed to be killed.  He would mention also people like Mahiywa.  The people at Somkomo know Mahiywa.  He had been imprisoned for ANC activities.  I did not know him.  He said that such people should be killed.  This was discussed in the meeting.  He also explained that no-one had the right to oppose what he was proposing because he wanted everyone to be under the leadership of the IFP.  There were numerous meetings held at the station ..."
...[intervention]

MR LAX: Sorry, please could you slow down a little bit.  Really, just ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, before you proceed Mr Gwamanda, at that time what was Mr Mfayela's position in the community?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: He was the leader at Ndwedwe as he still is today.  He is in Parliament today, representing the community of Ndwedwe.  He is also the leader of the IFP in the Ndwedwe area.  He used to force people to become Inkatha members.
"After that there was a meeting at Mzukulyo.  Just before that I would like to take one step back.  There was a teacher by the name of Cele who came to me because I knew everything about Mfayela, what he did, about the weapons that were transported from Ulundi which would be used to kill ANC members.  I knew everything about these weapons and how the violence was being orchestrated.  He would have discussions with people being transported from Lindilani, Mpumalanga, to help in ...[indistinct] the violence.  Boys from the Ndwedwe area would be forced to go areas like Mpumalanga to fight the ANC.  Those people would be hidden in the house ..."
...[intervention]

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Gwamanda, please can you try and talk slowly.  It's impossible for the interpreters to keep up with you and important bits of your story that you'd like everyone to hear are going to get lost because they can't be translated.  So for your own benefit and ours, if you wouldn't mind trying to talk a little bit slower.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I would like to mention that this is the way I talk, I am naturally fast but I will try to slow down.

MR LAX: We'd be very grateful.
MR GWAMANDA
"It was at that time when these groups of boys were being called into the area.  I had some other weapons in my possession, like the 38 and 7.65.  As I was sitting at home Cele came to me and he requested that I should give him the 38 and the 7.65 on the instruction of Mr Mfayela.  These guns he would take to Olsdindesweni to protect the IFP.  I was surprised because Cele did not know about these guns.  I therefore believed that he had indeed been sent by Mfayela, and I gave him the guns and he left.
	One day when I was at Mr Mfayela's house, the community of Ndwedwe knows that I would be picked up by Mr Mfayela himself of his son Simo.  He would pick me up in a white van.  The taxi owners in Ndwedwe know about this van.  The people of Somkomo also know about this van because it used to terrorise them a lot.  
	I gave him the guns and I was surprised when Mr Mfayela asked me about these guns later and I told him what had happened and he said he doesn't remember having sent him.  There was a meeting at Mzukulyo in November ..."
...[intervention]
Please excuse me, I just want to check the dates.
"It was on the 27th of November 1993.  That's when there was an IFP meeting at Mzululyo. I was also present at that meeting.  There was somebody called Zulaki Mbambo who was an ANC member who had fled the Tembisweni area because of the violence and he hidden or he was hiding at my house.  I was his uncle.  I told him that he shouldn't let it be known that he is an ANC member.
	He stayed at my house.  Right now he resides at an informal settlement at Pietermaritzburg.  I was with Zulaki at that meeting.  I had an AK47 with which I had removed from Mr Mfayela's house ..."
...[intervention]

MR MCHUNU: Sorry, the meeting you are referring to of the 27th of November 1993, what was the purpose of that meeting?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: It was to commemorate the people who had died in the violence.  That was common practice within the IFP.  They would do that to pretend as if IFP members had been killed, when in fact it was ANC members who had been killed.  And they would use these forums to campaign for votes.  They said they are commemorating the deaths of the IFP members.
"At that meeting I had that AK47 with me.  I left the AK with Zwelaki Mbambo.  I used to carry this AK47 around at Ndwedwe and all the people from the Ndwedwe area knew that I carried this weapon and I would use it to shoot around the area.  I did not hide these guns.
	At that meeting Mr Mfayela was given a red blanket and this blanket was indicative or was a symbol of the commemoration of the deaths of IFP members. 
	At that time when the meeting ended, when there was dinner thereafter because everybody had contributed R20,00 for the meeting.  If you did not pay this money your house would be burnt down because that meant you were against the IFP.  I had also paid this money as the head of the Gwamanda family.
	After the meeting he went into a certain classroom.  I had left him sitting with Zondi Gumede and I wanted to go and have something to eat.  I left him there to have my supper.  I was called shortly into the classroom.  Apparently there was a squabble between Mr Mfayela and Zondi ..."
...[intervention]

MR MCHUNU: Sorry once again, this Cele you are talking about, you said he was a school teacher, at which school?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: He taught at Georgie School at Osindisweni.

MR MCHUNU: At the same school where the service was held?