Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-17

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Molete, may I remind you you're still under oath?

MIRIAM MOLETE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, my attorney is still in the process of finalising that bundle which was referred to.  It will be ready soon but I thought that I cannot delay the proceedings any further.  Statements which I'm going to use to cross-examine this witness has been handed to all the parties on Friday so I will continue with my cross-examination and in due course that bundle will be ready.  So the statements I'm referring to are statements made by this witness, Miriam Molete and a statement made by Florence Molete.  I was informed the party has been handed these documents.  My learned friend now shakes his head so he hasn't got a copy.  I'll try to get a copy to hand over to him.

MR LAX: Mr Strydom, we don't have Florence Molete's statement.  We've only got a hand-written one by Miriam and a typed one by Miriam.

MR STRYDOM: Oh, thank you Mr Lax, what I will do is I won't start with Florence until the bundle is available.

CHAIRPERSON: Now what is the situation, is the situation that this statement by this witness will form part of the bundle that's been prepared?

MR STRYDOM: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay very well.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, for the record we don't have any statements, either of Florence Molete or Miriam Molete.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I will start with my cross-examination without reference to these statements and when they become ready I will deal with the statements.  Thanks Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you may proceed.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you.
	Ms Molete just as an introduction I want to inform you that I'm not going to cross-examine you about the tragedy that happened at the house.  Apart from certain issues you stated that the person who attacked you and Mita was a White person, so I'll ask you certain questions in that regard.  You also said that you saw two people in camouflage uniforms.  I will ask you certain questions about that and then you stated that you saw a Koyoco driving towards the factories.  I'll ask you about that. 
	Now firstly, you stated that your husband was shot.  I want to put to you and maybe you can comment on this statement that according to the post-mortem report and other documentation in my possession, your husband died as a result of stab wounds.  Are you prepared to accept that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No I don't accept that.

MR STRYDOM: Why do you say your husband was shot?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I said that my husband was hacked with a panga while he was in the house and then ultimately he was shot from behind on the upper shoulder.

MR STRYDOM: Were you there when he was shot or not?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, I wasn't present.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Strydom, are you saying that, let me just clarify this, are you saying her husband wasn't shot at all or that he didn't die as a result of the gunshot because there's two quite different propositions.

MR STRYDOM: What I'm putting is according to the post-mortem report no bullet wounds were marked.

MR LAX: That's different.

MR STRYDOM: Or was found.
	What I want to know from the witness on what basis do you say that your husband was inter alia shot?

MIRIAM MOLETE: The reason why I say that is because my brothers and sisters were left behind and then after that the corpses were examined.  The people refused, the police refused people to see the corpses and they removed the bullet and when I arrived at the hospital I was told that my husband died as a result of gunshots.  He had three gun wounds that is why I say he died as result of gun wounds.

MR STRYDOM: You just mentioned that the bullets were removed or some reference to that.  Can you just explain what do you say about that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is what I was told by my brothers because they were there.  When they arrived at the hospital they told me that.

MR STRYDOM: So you've got no personal knowledge about the fact that your husband was shot?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Mr Strydom, I said when I arrived at the hospital I asked my brothers whether my husband is dead.  They told me about the problems that they had and they said it to me my husband had died as a result of three bullet wounds.

CHAIRPERSON: We understand what you were told at the hospital.  What counsel wants to find out is, of your own personal knowledge do you know whether you husband was shot?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is what they told me but the only thing that I saw was that he was hurt while I was with him in the house.  I only heard about the shots the following day when they told me that my husband was shot three times.

MR STRYDOM: I want you to look at Exhibit J, that is a plan of Boipatong including Slovo Park.  I want you to indicate approximately where 17 Slovo Park is.  Do you see the township itself and on the right hand side of Exhibit J you see drawings of which purport to be houses or shacks?

MR BERGER: Can I assist?

MR STRYDOM: Yes please.
	Do you understand the map?

CHAIRPERSON: Any progress.

MR BERGER: The witness is indicating something about Slovo Park near the corner of Bapedi Street.

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes, that is at the corner of Bapedi from the shops, it is just near the corner.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, if one will take the route from the shops going towards Slovo Park you get to the houses there at Slovo Park, is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Now number 17, the place where you were that night.  In relation to the corner of Bakwena and Bapedi Street, can you just indicate where that position is, or that house?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Bakwena Street is not indicated here, I can't see it.

MR STRYDOM: The street that runs between the Boipatong Township and Slovo Park, do you see that?  That's the last street.

MIRIAM MOLETE: Unfortunately it's not a good photostat copy but you can see Bakwena is the last street.

MIRIAM MOLETE: I cannot see clearly from this map, it's dark.

MR STRYDOM: But just accept the last street is Bakwena Street and obviously then it intersects with Bapedi Street, it forms a T-Junction.  What I want to know ...(intervention)

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I can see it now.

MR STRYDOM: From that T-Junction between Bapedi and Bakwena Street, can you indicate from that position where your or house 17 more or less is or was?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

MR BERGER: Ms Molete is indicating but I don't know if it's helpful because I don't know on your map but ours 17 is indicated.  Is it indicated on yours as well?

MR STRYDOM: No, maybe just give me your indication.

MR BERGER: It's near the corner of Bapedi and Bakwena and it's - there's a row of houses, can you see that?

MR STRYDOM: Yes?

MR BERGER: And then just below it there's one, two, three, four?

MR STRYDOM: Yes?

CHAIRPERSON: Is there a 15 on your map?  Mr Berger?

MR BERGER: Yes there is a 15, the one that I thought was indicated as 17 is actually 97.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, alright.

MR BERGER: And then there's a 73 I think

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that's right here.

MR BERGER: I just want a broad indication where the witnesses house or where she was, not the exact spots.

MR BERGER: And Ms Molete has also indicated 15 as to where her husband was shot or was killed.

MR STRYDOM: How far from that house where your husband was killed was the shack you were in that night?  Was it close by?

MIRIAM MOLETE: They were neighbours.

CHAIRPERSON: So 15 and 17 were neighbours?  Alright.

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So house number 17 is in the vicinity of the corner of Bapedi and Bafokeng but would be more along Bakwena Street which is where number 15 is indicated.

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct, it's at the corner of Bakwena and Bapedi Street.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, not Bafokeng, Bafokeng is right at the top of the township, just below.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon, it's Bakwena I'm referring to.

MR BERGER: Bakwena and Bapedi.