Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-01-14

MR PRIOR: That is - yes, thank you Mr Chairman, so could we mark this bundle G?

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, the bundle of documents headed: "Heidelberg Tavern Attack", will go in as Exhibit G

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I also refer to an additional affidavit of Mr Kompion which was circulated this morning, it is dated the 14th of January of this year and may that be marked Exhibit H?   
	I simply place on record - the Committee will recall that during cross-examination of the applicants, the evidence leader suggested that - given the locality of the cartridges within the Heidelberg Tavern, that the firing or the shooting at the victims must have occurred from a very close proximity - this affidavit Exhibit H belies that.  
	A demonstration was conducted last year on the 24th of November of 1997, where a similar machine rifle was used - an R4 or R5 type, and it was then discovered - and that's set out at paragraphs 4, that the cartridges were ejected at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees from the weapon and that the distance of the cartridges as they landed from the weapon, varied between 8 and 17 paces, so that's roughly in the order of 8 to 17/18 metres Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PRIOR: I wanted to place that on record and correct any misconception there could have been or misunderstanding from the suggestion that I'd put to the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
	You can't have any objection to that Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: No, except that it's nice to see that an expert confirmed the proposition I put to the witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

JUDGE WILSON: What is the purpose Mr Prior, of the amnesty application that has now been filed - in Exhibit G?

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, yes - thank you, I was going - at some stage before the close of all the evidence, to ask that Mr Gqomfa be recalled just on a specific aspect where - in this application, he set's out the motivation of the attack on the farm and that portion was highlighted at - I think it's page 17 of the paginated papers, that the attack - I think it's the second paragraph half way through
"The purpose was not the loss of life or of a human being, it was to pressurise the electorate"
So, insofar as that had any bearing on the Heidelberg Tavern attack, I wanted simply to clarify that with the applicant - it hadn't been put to him when he'd given his evidence.

JUDGE WILSON: Well, unfortunately my papers are not paginated, so if you're going to refer to a page perhaps ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

JUDGE WILSON: My papers are not paginated, so if you're going to refer to a page, could you perhaps rather refer me to the paragraph of the application?

MR PRIOR: It's marked Annexure 4(b) and it looks like (1) on the top of the page - no, it can't be, I think it's page 5 Mr Chairman - the page commences with
"Message"
And it's the second paragraph, do you have it Mr Chairman?

JUDGE WILSON: ...[inaudible]

MR PRIOR: That was the only significance of incorporating that in the bundle and that would depend if the Committee would allow me to put that - it may also be a matter of argument but I felt that the applicant ought to be able to - should be given an opportunity to respond to that.
	And in the last item on Exhibit G was the affidavit of Mr Sibaya insofar as his evidence, he recanted his evidence given before this Committee during the previous hearing.   Mr Chairman, he is available and subject to anything the Committee wanted to ask me before I call him, I call Mr Sibaya.

CHAIRPERSON: Purely by way of procedure, do you want to clear this up with Mr Gqomfa first or do you want to call Mr Sibaya first?

MR PRIOR: As a matter of procedure, I would like to clear it up with Mr Gqomfa first and then end off the evidence with Mr Sibaya.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Gqomfa, just one aspect, you've been shown your amnesty application in respect of a farm in Lady Grey, are you aware of that application?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Could you please turn to page 5 - it is the highlighted portion in orange and just the sentence before that, could I read that out to you for the record?  You said in the second paragraph
"This attack on this farm was to persuade and to force the Government to take African people seriously in their struggle for national liberation"
Is that word: 
"hence electorate"
Could you possibly just read that out, I can't make that out?
"were used"
Sorry, could you just assist me there, what are those last two words after:
"for national liberation"?
MR GQOMFA
"hence electorate were used"

MR PRIOR: I see.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: You're referring to the elections?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Electorate.

MR PRIOR: Oh, the people?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: The voting people.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.
MR PRIOR
"As it was already known that the main house will be vacant that night, as the purpose was not the loss of life of a human being.  The operation was executed for pressurising the electorate to persuade the their Government to commit itself in peaceful settlement"
Is that correct?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: That's correct.

MR PRIOR: Do you agree that there were other ways - other than taking of human life, to pressure the electorate into persuading the Government to change their ways?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Before I answer your question, I would like to know the relevance of this question and this particular application to what we are about here.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I think he's asking for a ruling on the relevance of the question.

CHAIRPERSON: Just try and answer the question as well as you can - the relevance  or otherwise of it, will be decided by this Committee.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: It's been suggested to you that there were other ways of drawing the attention of the electorate - other than killing people.

MR PRIOR: Like you did or mentioned in the Lady Grey matter.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: First of all, I don't think that all the APLA operations or this specific operation can be used as a yardstick to judge which is correct to launch our armed struggle.  When you say there are other ways that could have been used, I don't think that's fair especially to the oppressed.
	First of all, this operation - or this question can be answered by the APLA commanders because they select the targets, they assemble the personnel, they draft the strategy for the army and the tactics that are used thereof.  
	When you talk about fairness - or the reason why I say this is not a fair question is because you could ask such a question when you know our way that we have other chances or opportunities because you as you're sitting there and your people, you closed and sealed all the doors before the PAC decided to launch an armed struggle - this is the best way I can answer this question, I hope you're satisfied.

MR PRIOR: Yes, I just want to assure you that it wasn't an unfair question, it was a question arising about what you said was the reason for burning down the farmhouse - there were other means of putting pressure on the electorate - other than killing.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I think the answer is that the APLA commanders decide on what tactics they use because they imagined - or rather they believed, that they were engaged in a war situation.  So it isn't whether - it doesn't matter very much what he believes.

MR PRIOR: I see, thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Arendse, any questions you wish to put on this matter?

NORMAN ARENDSE: None Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Andrew?
	Yes, Mr Gqomfa, thank you.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED