Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-26

DR RANDERA: Sorry, Mr Molete, I just want to clear this, because it is very important in terms of our work.  The way the statement has been made, is that this was a conflict between the IFP and the ANC.  As the Chairperson said earlier on, our responsibility is to look at what happened during that conflict.  Now how did you know they were IFP members yourself?  Let's leave Johanna out of this.

MR MOLETE: I could hear through their voices, the way they were shouting, that they didn't want to leave us and they were throwing stones.

DR RANDERA: Let me ask you one more question.  Did anybody, when they were shouting, said or shout IFP slogans or say we are the IFP?

MR MOLETE: I don't understand, Sir.

DR RANDERA: Let me put it another way, Mr Molete.  Please don't feel that I am trying to frighten you here, just relax, tell the story as you remember it and understand it.  When these people came and started throwing stones and shouting outside your house, did any of them shout and say look, we are members of the IFP or did they shout any IFP slogans?

MR MOLETE: No, Sir.  When they attacked us, as I have mentioned earlier on, it wasn't long when we were in the house.  We only heard sounds outside, people throwing stones at the house, saying if we don't want to open the house, they will kill us right inside the house.  They were calling us bastards and they were calling us all names.  Well, they are IFP members.
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DR RANDERA: Thank you, Mr Molete, I don't have any more questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me just try and clarify.  We have already heard that Tigane is a small, a very small community and we know that there was this conflict.  There was this conflict, there were only two groups involved this conflict.  It was the ANC whom we have heard was in the majority in the community and the IFP on the other side.  Those were the only two groups that were fighting each other. Do you agree with that?

MR MOLETE: I do not agree.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any other groups that were fighting in that same community of Tigane, apart from ANC and IFP?  Wasn't that the only conflict in that community, between the two groups that I am talking about.

MR MOLETE: There was unrest in the township, but I didn't get a chance to examine the situation as to who were fighting. I don't want to give evidence because I don't have any information.

CHAIRPERSON: Now a few weeks before this incident, there was this attack on the house of Mogapi, that she spoke about earlier. That was in July, just the previous month.  She said that she was a member of the IFP and that the people that attacked her house and members of her family and herself were members of the ANC.  Now a few weeks after that your house is attacked, and you suggest, you said it again now, it was members of the IFP that launched that attack.  Let me ask you, would the ANC have attacked you?

MR MOLETE: The ANC?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOLETE: No, Sir.
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CHAIRPERSON: Were you living in Moscow, that section of the township called Moscow, is that where the ANC people lived?

MR MOLETE: I won't say it is an ANC area.  I don't understand, is it an ANC stronghold or IFP stronghold. I just see it as an area for people to stay.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you think of any reason why your house was - I am repeating the question that was asked earlier. Can you think now today, can you think of any reason why your house was attacked by a group of people that seemed to have been IFP, if it didn't have anything to do with the conflict between the IFP and the ANC in Tigane?

MR MOLETE: I don't have evidence.  I don't understand and I didn't know at that time that there was a conflict between the two parties and what they were fighting for.

CHAIRPERSON: This group that was there, did they do anything to your house?

MR MOLETE: Yes, this was only death took place.

CHAIRPERSON: Your house wasn't burnt and your property destroyed?

MR MOLETE: No, no property was destroyed.

CHAIRPERSON: And your house wasn't burgled, I mean, this doesn't seem to have been an ordinary crime, with people coming to rob you and to burgle your house.  Not so?

MR MOLETE: I ran to my sister's house, who was married in the township and I took a long time before I could go back to the house.  That was after the death.  When I went back home I destroyed my shack and I moved to a squatter camp.  Because I wasn't involved in any political party.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Molete, were there any other houses attacked on that night that we are talking about now?

MR MOLETE: Are you referring to other families?  Yes.  I
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only heard that many houses were actually attacked the evening, but I don't have evidence.  I heard as women were talking.

CHAIRPERSON: What were the women saying, who was responsible for the attack or the attacks on all those houses?

MR MOLETE: I don't have evidence, Sir, I won't give evidence on something I did not see myself.

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, that is perfectly understandable, but it ... (END OF TAPE - SIDE A).
 ... and what the background was to this incident, because if we don't understand that, if we don't understand whether or not there was a political context to this incident, then the Commission can't be of assistance to you.  That is why it is important for us to ascertain whether or not there was a political issue, a political connotation to the whole incident, and that's why I am asking you.  From what you heard, not from what you have seen.  You have already explained to us what you saw and what you didn't see.  But from what people were saying there, who was responsible for these attacks?

MR MOLETE: Sir, I do not understand your question.

CHAIRPERSON: All right, I am going to repeat it once more and if you can't help then you can't help.  You have heard and you know about a lot of other houses, you say that were also attacked on that same night.  You have heard people talking about the incidents.  Now what I am asking you, is from what you heard, who did people say were responsible for these attacks on all these houses that you know were attacked?

MR MOLETE: I won't be in a position to give you evidence,
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because I didn't see, it was dark.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think that this incident has got anything to do with politics?

MR MOLETE: I do not understand.

CHAIRPERSON: The stoning of your house and the killing of your brother, do you think that had anything to do with politics?

MR MOLETE: No, M'Lord.