Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-28

CHAIRPERSON: This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee in the Pietermaritzburg Town Hall on Monday 28 July 1997 to hear the application of M M Gumbi and R V Zuma.
	I, Andrew Wilson, am presiding, and sitting with me is Ms Sisi Khampepe and Mr Denzil Potgieter.
	Would counsel please notify their presences.

MR DE KLERK: As it pleases the Commission, I appear on behalf of both applicants.  My name is Lourens de Klerk, attorney firm, Nel, Kotze and Van Dyk Attorneys, in Durban.

MR RATHMAN: May it please the Commission.  I appear on behalf of the relatives of the victims.  My name is Attorney Hugh Rathman from Richmond.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: As it pleases the Committee I am Advocate J Mpshe representing the Amnesty Committee.
	Mr Chairman and members of the Committee all parties are herein present including the victims.  As indicated already Mr Rathman is representing all the victims who are herein present. 
	The first row in the hall consists of all victims.  I am told by my learned, Mr van der Merwe, that the first applicant to be called or to testify will be M M Gumbi, matter no 0350/96.  I will hand over to him.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that the political parties who are involved, or rather implicated in this matter, that is the Inkatha Freedom Party and the African National Congress are both aware of the hearing today?

MR DE KLERK: That is correct Mr Chairman.  The IFP have been notified.  They are quite well aware of this application.
	Mr Chairman if I can just enquire regarding the process, will I go ahead to lead the evidence.  Thank you.

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: (sworn states)

MR DE KLERK: As it pleases the Commission.  Mr Gumbi is it correct that you were involved in an attack in 1991 in the Richmond area on the 23rd of June in which you were convicted by Judge Therion on the 27th of November 1992?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: That is correct.

MR DE KLERK: Before we start with that specific incident, where were you born and where did you....?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: I was born in Richmond at Mkobeni.

MR DE KLERK: Did you go to school?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: Yes.

MR DE KLERK: What grade or standard did you reach at school?

CHAIRPERSON: Can you repeat the previous, we didn't hear the answer.

MR DE KLERK: I will Mr Chairman?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: Up to Standard 8.

MR DE KLERK: Why did you leave school?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: It was because there was fighting in Richmond and the schools were closed so therefore I couldn't go to school.

MR DE KLERK: How old were you approximately when you left school?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: I was 19 years-old.

MR DE KLERK: What did you do then after you left school?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: I would say that I started getting involved in the violence as there was violence in the area.

MR DE KLERK: Is it correct that you grew up as a traditional Zulu, that's meaning that you believed in the traditional values of the Zulu nation, that you believed in your forefather's spirits and so forth?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: That's correct.

MR DE KLERK: Is it further correct that this was taught to you from a very early age?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: That's correct.

MR DE KLERK: Can you quickly, in short, explain to the Commission what the general position was in Richmond during 1991 regarding the violence and so forth?

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: Yes I can explain.

MR DE KLERK: Go ahead.

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: During 1991 in Richmond violence erupted and it was somewhere around February when this started. People started fighting and violence was intensified.  Somewhere during June 1991 on the 23rd there had been an attack on us at our area.   People entered our area which was a low-lying area and they were coming from above and they shot at us and one person was shot and then we started running because we never expected to be attacked.  However, we came back.  When coming back the attackers ran away.
	We stayed there and we gathered trying to find out as to how we are going to survive because we knew we are not going to be able to sleep.  We sat and discussed.  One of us by the name of Mbandla came with a view that we should pay revenge.  However it was quickly said that we can do it voluntarily, we are not forced to join the revenge.  Some people volunteered to go and attack, and I was one of them.  
	Myself and my fellow accused we arrived at the first home that was the Dlamini family and in front of the house there was a young boy standing there.  When arriving there we suspected that the house might be one of the camps where our attackers had camped therefore we started surrounding the house and we got into the house or family or homestead.  We started shooting at the person who appeared at the door.

SISI KHAMPEPE: We would like to ask you to slow down because there are people who are trying to interpret for you therefore you should give them time to explain in full everything that you have to say.

MDUDUZI M GUMBI: Thanks, I will try.  Can I continue?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes you can continue.