Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-22

JAN B DE WET: His office was in the office together with the offices of Terreblanche, in the complex where the AWB had its Headquarters.

MS VAN DER WALT: So according to you, as far as you were concerned, the instruction was from the AWB and then you referred to these two people who had direct contact with Head Office?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And any other Generals, did you see any of the other Generals at these gatherings?

JAN B DE WET: Where we got together at the game farm, there was General Andries Terreblanche, that is Eugene Terreblanche's brother, he was there as well as other Generals.
	If I remember, that was the Saturday when we arrived there.  There was an Orde group which some people attended and some of the Generals were present there.  General Alec Cruywagen, he was also there at a certain stage.  Which day exactly it was, I cannot remember, but I know he was there.

MS VAN DER WALT: An Orde group meeting, is that a closed meeting?

JAN B DE WET: That is a closed meeting Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Wet, can you speak a little bit slower.

JAN B DE WET: I will try Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: During this operation, you received instructions from General Nico Prinsloo in order to make your vehicle available?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did you see this instruction?

JAN B DE WET: To me it was a question of a General giving me an instruction, we were together as a group.  He first asked me if I would make my vehicle available and I said yes, I would, and then I accepted his instruction and therefore I made it available.

MS VAN DER WALT: An instruction from a private person?

JAN B DE WET: No, it was an instruction from the General who was with us at the game farm.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who acted on behalf of who?

JAN B DE WET: On behalf of the AWB.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Wet, please explain something to me.  I do not follow you very well.
	You are saying that at that stage you did what you did, because there was an instruction.  Didn't you want to do it yourself?

JAN B DE WET: The struggle for freedom, it was also an ideal that I strived for, that was to obtain a Volkstaat.  Because I was told that there was a war, I voluntarily made myself available for the struggle.

CHAIRPERSON: So do I understand you correctly, the instruction only gave you the opportunity to do what you did?

JAN B DE WET: The instruction was given to me and I reconciled myself with the instructions I received.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS VAN DER WALT: Just to link up with that question, this instruction that you have just testified about, this was in connection with your amnesty application, but you also testified that a long time before this operation, there were already talk of a revolution and war?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you who worked very closely with Terreblanche, what was your opinion or your view with regards to the revolution and the war?

JAN B DE WET: For me in the run up to the election, it was implicitly shown by the media and also by certain ANC members that no Volkstaat ideology would realise and together with what Mr Terreblanche said, the fact that we do not negotiate with the ANC and that if they do not give what we want, we will make war, and we will use bomb explosions or firearms, or whatever, and I reconciled myself with that, that we were going to take up the struggle against the ANC and the National Party.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were you prepared to make war?

JAN B DE WET: I was prepared to give my life for God, nation and father land.

MS VAN DER WALT: Let's look at your vehicle again, you testified that you were told by General Prinsloo to remove the tow bar from your vehicle?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you do it?

JAN B DE WET: I did it, yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Cliffie Barnard whom you also testified about, do you know which rank he held?

JAN B DE WET: Cliffie was a Colonel at the AWB.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did you view him as a member of the AWB, what was his relationship with the Staff Generals, do you know?

JAN B DE WET: As far as the Staff Generals is concerned, I do not know, but it appeared to me that him and Terreblanche had a very good relationship and that he did certain things for Mr Terreblanche when they were having meetings.
	When they were together in the office, nobody else was allowed.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Wet, in the evidence of the previous applicants, there was evidence which indicated at some stage it was said that the ranks were going to be abandoned, or were abandoned.  Can you remember such evidence?

JAN B DE WET: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you carry knowledge of that at that time?

JAN B DE WET: I only went to Ventersdorp at a later stage, but Leon van der Merwe informed me that ranks would not exist because certain people were given instructions.

CHAIRPERSON: When was this?

JAN B DE WET: This was on the 21st or the 22nd, when I heard this from Van der Merwe?

CHAIRPERSON: That is before the election, before there were talk of bombs?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.  He told me it was war.

CHAIRPERSON: The evidence which is aimed at trying to show that you reacted on the instructions of people who had rank, that is senseless because ranks no longer existed?

JAN B DE WET: No, ranks didn't exist, but in my eyes, he was still a General.  General Prinsloo and Leon van der Merwe, a Brigadier, and the instructions I received from them, my instructions, I got from them.

CHAIRPERSON: But if you say there are no ranks any more, we are all equal, we are in battle, what is the worth of that evidence that you got instructions from a person with a certain rank?  I do not follow, please help me?
	If there weren't any ranks, what is the worth of that type of evidence?

JAN B DE WET: It is when we addressed each other in public, I would not say General can I talk to you Captain, or whatever, but in the inner circles it still existed.
	We were together on the farm, and I spoke to someone, because I was brought up this way and also the fact that I did military service, I still used these ranks.

MS VAN DER WALT: Let me just take you back to Exhibit F Chairperson, just to link up with the fact that statements were made pertaining to the fact that you just acted.  This was put to the other applicants, you acted not on behalf of the AWB.
	You testified that you were present at the meeting in Lichtenburg and you also saw the news report afterwards, is that correct?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: It seems from the news report, the paper that the evening the hall was in darkness, do you know about that?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Chairperson, because of the bomb explosion which took place earlier that day somewhere next to the road, Mr Terreblanche told us, he told the public there, that he apologises for there being no power, because they brought the generators to generate power and he asked the people to apologise for the noise, because there is no power because of bomb explosions.
	Shortly after that he said that if the ANC and the National Party would not listen to our demand of a Volkstaat, there would be further bomb explosions, and these would be bigger than the ones already exploded.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you know who caused the bomb explosion at the power station?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, I knew who were the two people involved in that.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who were they?

JAN B DE WET: De Wet Ras and Breytenbach, they also applied for amnesty.

MS VAN DER WALT: You say De Wet Ras, there is a De Wet Strydom.

JAN B DE WET: I apologise Chairperson, De Wet Strydom and Breytenbach were the two people.