Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes, I have information about the legal issues because I am old.  So because I am old I am wise. I think I don't have any contemporaries here amongst us.  These are all children, but I can say there are two gentlemen who are old that I can say they are my peers.  But I can state that I am unable to speak lies.  Even if I am preaching it is very easy for me to preach and convey the message because when you are old you are wise, you cannot lie.  You state things as they are. That is why we now highlight and emphasise that in the religious aspects only the aged and the elders should be allowed to participate in religious matters.

ADV SANDI: I am glad for what you have just said. I think you are wise really.
 Can we retrace our steps a bit.  What would you do if you can meet the perpetrators and what would you do if they ask for forgiveness.
UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
9 M G JWAAI

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: I thank you very much for your question.  Forgiveness is what took place amongst our families a long time ago.  When a memorial service was held in Bisho, I was requested to make a few words, and then I was able to stand up and I was able to convey this message, that all of us who are here, we will pass this road. Nobody knows when he would go, nobody knows the day when he would die. If there was a tape-recorder that day you would hear me saying and stating that everybody would be leaving this world.
 There was a broadcast over what I said and there was a request to repeat what I was saying.  Then I was taken to another room, the door was closed. I was alone and I was able to talk to the recorder and what I said was recorded.  Then I went back to the gentleman with whom I was going with, and then the tape was put here again.  There were some policemen and they also listened to what I said.  I didn't understand that I was sending condolences to the family, and I was praised by my wife for what I did.
 When I went back to my family, everybody was very happy, because I had made and cited examples which were strenghtening and supportive to my family.  Even today, when they were crying at the time, they were looking at me.  You know, everybody knows that when there is anything which is bad, which has taken place at home, the father is the one who is looked at.  The funeral was well-prepared and I am proud to say that there were no problems. 
 The people were also meeting and they have gathered in my house and everybody was here to listen to me and then they wanted to hear all the arrangements during that time.  Everybody thanked for what I said and stated. They were asking me who told me to say what I have said. I said no, 
UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
10 M G JWAAI
this was impromptu but I was able to state my feelings.  Gqozo also stood up the same day at the memorial service, and then he asked what is the use for you to stand up and say you are the members of these organisations; look here, you have somebody who is dead now.
 I stated that we are all going to die.  I realised that he was just talking and directing what he is saying to me, because I am also an ANC member, here is my card and I am the card-carrying member.  The whole family are card-carrying members.  
 Why my son also joined this, is because I knew that the children should see somebody who can lead them.  So that is why when we see the people in the rallies, we also want people to produce their cards.  We know that the ANC is one of the best organisations in this country. I am talking about my organisation of which I am proud.

CHAIRPERSON: Order, please!  I would request Mr Sandi to guide the gentleman here, so that we should not divert from what we are supposed to be doing.

ADV SANDI: Mr Jwaai, I would like to thank you very much for what you have just presented. It is clear that it is a wise man and a veteran who is now speaking.  Do you wish to state anything further in addition to what you have said now or would you like us to regard that you have said everything that you have said everything that you wanted to say?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes, I have said all that I wanted to.  But I have three requests.
 I would like to get some benefits belonging to my son.  Secondly, when the people are registered for employment, they are informed about the working conditions and they will be informed about their salaries and the agreement would be 
UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
11 M G JWAAI
signed and understood by both parties.  The government and the officer.  Unfortunately my son died before all these could be arranged properly. Nobody knew that he was going to die.  He also didn't know that he was going to die.  So I would like him to get his benefits.  
 Thirdly, I am an old-age pensioner, which is inadequate. I have got a big family and I am left with the seven survivors and eight, including the mother. We are struggling very much, because my son was beginning to maintain and support the family. I had confidence in him. Because he would bring his whole salary to me.
 I have these requests to make. The Government should please help me and assist me in the maintenance of the family. Even if they can exclude my wife, although she is regarded to be very young, I am going to share with her this pension that I am getting.  I would like the Government to assist me with the school requirements in connection with my children.  My last-born is doing Std 1.  The little one said he would like to get R2,50 because the lady teacher said he is going to beat me if I don't bring the money. I ask what is the money meant for? He said it was meant for the school fees.  I would like the Government to take over and assist me.

ADV SANDI: I thank you very much, Mr Jwaai. I am going to hand over to the Chairperson.  I hope the Commission will attend to what you have requested. Thank you very much.

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to understand clearly.  When there was still this Ciskei independent country, the policemen were attacked usually.

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes.
UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
12 M G JWAAI

CHAIRPERSON: So the community members were involved in the attacking of the police?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: During the time when your son died, was he together with other police?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: How many of them were there?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: There were four of men.  I don't think I can say anything about them because I was not given the mandate to do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the one who fetched him also a policeman?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: Yes, he was also a policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he one of the deceased?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: I am not quite clear about that. I do not know where he is. One of them ran away whilst they were being locked up in the van.   When you read the newspaper, the driver was the one who was killed.  When he fell there were others who were at the back and then it is written there in the paper, you can see that, the attacker shot the tank, the petrol tank and then the car was burnt.  We hear this from the community members, because they said one of the policemen ran away, but the police do not want to come out so that he can come forward and give us information.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any funds in the Ciskei to meet the needs of the police who have been injured?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: I do not know, because I am staying here in the Transkei, I just visit the Ciskei, but I don't know the proceedings in the Ciskei.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you receive any compensation from the Ciskei Government?

MALOLO GILIFISI JWAAI: No, it was said he was resigning from the
UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
13 M G JWAAI
service.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.