Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

WITNESS:   The elder one said, "No, I don't want the children to come here."  It was so difficult, because I went to see the children.  They could have been here, but because of the large numbers they can't be here.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mr Mayi, as you are here we are at a very delicate function here.  Didn't you get any recognition, any permission from the family that you should come here and represent them?

WITNESS:   Yes.  His wife said she is afraid of the children.  She doesn't want to appear here, but I should come on her behalf.  I said to her, "How can I come to see you because you have so many boys?"

KHOZA MGOJO: We'll go ahead even though ... (inaudible) ... we usually prefer that the person get permission from the family before they come and speak on behalf of the family, because it might happen that your talk here would create problems for the family.  Are you still free to speak on behalf of the family without having been authorised by the family to come and speak here on their behalf?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am prepared to come and speak here because I was very hurt by his death.  His wife has got no problem with me.  It's just that he needed to consult his elder son, because I have sent a word to her.  She said to me, "That's all right.  You should consult my elder son," but I was afraid to go to the elder son and get an authorisation to relate this.   (Pause)

KHOZA MGOJO: Just tell what you know about our cousin.

WITNESS:   What I do know about my cousin, he left home, he had gone to do his work as an inyanga.  And after he left, it was quite a while after he had left, there was a policeman who arrived who was looking for him.  This police was called Grant.  He used to work at Highflats Police Station.  But this police arrived there and found that he had already gone.  He asked from his senior wife, because there's something that is very difficult, because his cousin's wife wasn't well, and they wanted him to go and help.  His senior wife said no, he has already left.  They said he was in a rush to go to Richmond.  He has gone to practice his inyanga medicine there.  He said, "Maybe try and run.  He might even catch up with him, because he was going to catch two buses."  From there they left, they followed him, and they did found him at the bus stop where he was going to change buses.  They took him.  They said they are taking him back at home because there's an urgent thing that was very important, but the didn't tell him what was this important thing that they wanted him to go back home for.  From there he came with them and they took him.  When they came back they gave him over to other policemen, and these policemen took him to Brighton Beach.  At this Brighton Beach that's where he ended, and his wife talked with these other people where he was originally going to.  They said, "Bhayampini was coming to you, but he is not yet back home.  What's happening to him?  Now people say they don't know where he has gone to."  And those people said, "No, he didn't arrive," whereas they took him along the way.  And from there he looked for him, looking from this policeman who originally came to home to look for him.  They were looking for this Bhayampini, because they couldn't trace him from where he had said he was going to.  These policemen said no, he had been arrested.  They said, "Hau, why was he arrested?"  "No, he is the criminal."  And the woman wanted to know where he had been arrested to.  This other policeman said, "No, they took him to Durban."  So now we didn't exactly know what happened, and the wives started crying and jumping up and down at the police station.  And one day they came with the soldiers.  The soldiers were with him from Durban.  They said he must take out all the bombs he had with him, and he said no, he doesn't know any bomb.  And they brought him back again.  And they brought him again and said, "Take out these bombs," and he said, "No, I don't have any bombs.  I don't know of any bombs."  From there he came back because he was going to be buried, and one of his eyes had protruded out.  It's as if he had been hit with something that this eye got inside.  We buried him at home.  That's all I can say.

KHOZA MGOJO: By the way, you live at Umlazi Hostel.  Where is that hostel?

WITNESS:   At Te Huis.  I live at Te Huis Hostel.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said it was difficult for you to meet the son of the deceased at section 17.  Can you explain a bit more?  Why is it difficult for you to go to the elder son at section 17?

WITNESS:   It's because here and 17 we dare not go there.  We get assaulted and beaten up when we go there.

KHOZA MGOJO: Just continue.

WITNESS:   In section 17 we cannot go there.  It usually happens you must tell everything where do you come from.  When you say you come from the hostel, or at Thuyhuis, you will never go back again.

KHOZA MGOJO: What's the distinction between Thuyhuis and the other hostel, because they are all in one township?

WITNESS:  And in Glebelands there is Congress, that's ANC, and on the other side is Inkatha.

KHOZA MGOJO: You say you live at Umlazi Hostel, but where is your home?

WITNESS:   It's in High Flats.

KHOZA MGOJO: At High Flats.

WITNESS:   It's a black school at Nhlabatzana.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where does Bhayampini come from, where was he born?

WITNESS:   He was born on the farms.  From there he went to the homeland.  That's where he died.

KHOZA MGOJO: According to your statement you say that you've heard at the station when you were asked where is Mzizi you were told that he's no longer at High Flats, he's at Brighton Beach Station.  Did the family know that he was no longer at High Flats but he was in Brighton Beach?

WITNESS:   It is his wife who went there and didn't find him at that police station.  He had gone there to find out from Gilandi.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there any investigation that was done about his killing?

WITNESS:   No, it's just that all the people who died - I know they did investigate about other people who were killed except him.  That's the reason why I am here, because it would seem there has been some threat that people were told, "Anybody who talks about Mzizi will be killed," so that nobody pursued the matter.

KHOZA MGOJO: The gentleman was an inyanga, and he was working as an inyanga, and he had many wives.  Was there an organisation he was involved in as far as you're concerned?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't know about him being involved in any political organisation, because he was a traditionalist, he was an inyanga.

KHOZA MGOJO: But the organisation around there was it UDF that was there, and this very Inkatha?

WITNESS:   I see the ANC, but I can't say he belonged to any organisation.  I didn't know him belonging to any organisation.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  And his death certificate, was there a death certificate?  Has his wife gotten a death certificate?

WITNESS:   What I remember in the death certificate, I don't know if it's there or whether it wasn't there, because we were threatened by the police.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, you don't know anything about it?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know anything.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time when you were talking to his wife, and when she asked you to go to the elder son, what did she say you must come and ask from this Commission?

WITNESS:     What I really request from this Commission is that maybe if the Commission can look after her children.  Her children, if there is some assistance that they could give.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many children are these, because ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Oh, maybe there are 20 or more.  I have got no idea.  There's so many children, many, many.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know how old are those ones that are not yet working?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.  I don't even know which ones are working and which ones are not working, but I do know some elder sons are working.  But there are others who are just unemployed.