Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-14

THOMAS MANTHATA: Seeing they were disturbed, did you try and get any counselling or psychologists to help them?

MRS RADEBE: No, Sophie sometimes go to the doctor and back.  She goes to GPs.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Radebe, I also would like to ask about your two daughters, about Innocencia and Sophie. When they were injured that day, where were they injured?  In the neck, the face or the body?

MRS RADEBE: The other one was in the neck and the other one was in her arm.

PROF MEIRING: Today they still have pains.

MRS RADEBE: Yes, they have recovered although they still suffer with pains.  They have recovered.

PROF MEIRING: Both of them are studying at the moment.

MRS RADEBE: Yes, they are studying at the moment.

PROF MEIRING: What is Innocencia studying, in which standard is she?

MRS RADEBE: She is doing Std 9, Form 4.
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 M E RADEBE

PROF MEIRING: And Sophie?

MRS RADEBE: She is doing Std 10, Form 5.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera?

DR RANDERA: Mrs Radebe, you said at the beginning when all this started that there was somebody who spoke in Afrikaans and then there was somebody who also spoke in Zulu.

MRS RADEBE: Yes, it is so, Sir.

DR RANDERA: I thought I heard you say that you know the person who spoke in Zulu. Is that right?

MRS RADEBE: The person that spoke in Zulu is the boy who died, who was inside the house, who said please forgive us, he is the one who spoke in Zulu.  He spoke to the people outside that they must please forgive them because they belong to the same nation, they are of the same colour. But I was in the bedroom.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: The one who said forgive me, I am one of you, was he talking to the ones who were shooting?  Was he not talking to you?

MRS RADEBE: No, he was not talking to us, he was talking to these people who were intending to shoot.

CHAIRPERSON: He thought that if he spoke in Zulu they will forgive him.

MRS RADEBE: Yes, that is so.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I have not been there since Monday. The people of Kagosi, what do they think of these people who killed them and who are calling themselves Inkatha today?

MRS RADEBE: Please repeat your question.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My question is: the residents of Kagiso, what do they think about these people who killed these people and KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 M E RADEBE
who called themselves Inkatha?

MRS RADEBE: At the moment there is peace, everybody is quiet, nothing is said.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Is there peace even with the hostel dwellers?

MRS RADEBE: Yes, there seems to be peace, there is no more fighting.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Radebe, since Monday when we have been here we have heard stories about Inkatha who have come into the township and killed people. Some people told us that they were asked by Swanepoel in Swanieville who killed people.  This is quite painful and it hurts us as the TRC beause when we sent the statement-takers into the townships of Kagiso and the whole West Rand, requesting statements, even from the IFP members, we tried but we never got those statements.  Should we have received those statements we would have got a balanced picture of the conflict. So that we could hear from the IFP what they have against the ANC.  So that the ANC would be able to respond or the ANC could even ask what have you got against us.  We trust that we will still get these statements, because we know that the IFP did hand in their submissions together with other political parties, who also did that as well, some months ago.
 You say there is peace, but that peace must be rooted and supported by the leaders of these organisations.  So that it is not superficial. It is enough to say that there is peace and it doesn't go deep enough, then there will not be reconciliation. We are going to request the leadership of these people - yesterday it was Azapo and the ANC.  It was the ANC against IFP.  If all these leaders can try and 
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 M E RADEBE
reconcile and make peace, but this must be a genuine reconciliation.
 We thank you for coming here today to tell us about Innocencia and Sophie.  We are very grateful that this incident did not even impede on their studies and that they are still progressing with their studies.  We hope that God will give them the strength to finish their studies so that they will be better people in the future and learned people in their community. 
 We also thank you for your patience and having done your best to make sure that they further their studies.  We thank you.
 Is there anything else that you would like to request from the Truth Commission?

MRS RADEBE: No, there is nothing, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to recognise the presence of Mr Sack Mokhoeane, councillor for Ward 13 and deputy chairperson for the Krugersdorp TC Executive.
 We would like him to stand up so that we can welcome him.  We welcome you, sir.
 We are now going to break for lunch and will be back at quarter past two.
HEARING ADJOURNS
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG