Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

CHAIRPERSON: For purposes of the record, today is Wednesday, 28 April 1999.  This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee, held in the East London City Hall.
	The Panel consists of myself, Denzil Potgieter, presiding with Advocates Bosman and Sandi.  
	We are about the hear the applications of the following applicants:  Rhandile Bhayi, amnesty reference number AM 122/96; Jimmy Nokawusana, amnesty reference AM 1977/96; Mzuyanda Ntonga, amnesty reference AM 2018/96; Melunusi Nokawusana, amnesty reference AM 2009/96 and Bonekele Bhayi, amnesty reference AM 2770/96.
	Just before I ask the parties to place themselves on record, just for the general information of those present, the headset would assist you to listen in to the testimony in a language which you are able to follow.  
CHAIRPERSON EXPLAINS CHANNELS

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think Mr Kincaid, you can put yourself on record.

MR KINCAID: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee, I appear for the applicants in the application.  I have been instructed by the Legal Aid Board and will further the applications on their behalf.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Kincaid.  Mr Clarke?

MR CLARKE: Thank you, Mr Chairman, respected Members, Jonathan Clarke, attorney with the firm Smith, Tabata, Loon and Conlin, King William's Town.  I represent Mrs Anne Elizabeth Clackers, one of the victims who was attacked in one of the attacks that forms part of this application, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Clarke.  Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, Ramula Patel, Leader of Evidence.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Apart from Mrs Clackers, there is an indication in our papers that there are a few other victims or interested parties, who are not opposing the application.  That is just for purposes of the record.  Mr Kincaid, is there anything else that you want to place on record before you proceed the evidence?

MR KINCAID: No thank you, Mr Chairperson, I have filed supplementary affidavits on behalf of the applicants.  I trust that they have been included in the application bundle and that you're in possession of those affidavits.  I am in a position to lead the evidence of the first applicant in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Kincaid.  Yes, we are in receipt of those supplementary affidavits.  We thank you for that.  Is it Mr Rhandile Bhayi?

MR KINCAID: Mr Chairman, I misled you when I said the first applicant, the first applicant, according to the application bundle I have, is one Bonekele Bhayi.  It is misleading.  I know when you set out the names of the applicants, you did it in more-or-less reverse order.  The applicant I intend leading is application number 1977/96, it's Jimmy Nzunzima Nokawusana.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Kincaid.  Mr Nokawusana, can you hear over the headphones, can you hear the translation?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  I want you to please stand to take the oath.  Just give us your full names for the record.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please sit down.  Mr Kincaid?

MR KINCAID: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Nokawusana, do you mind if I call you Jimmy?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, I don't have a problem.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, in June 1992, you and your fellow applicants were convicted of various offences, committed in the Stutterheim district ...(intervention)

INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please speak closer to the mike.

MR KINCAID: Do I need to repeat that?

INTERPRETER: Yes, Sir.

MR KINCAID: In June of 1992, you and your fellow applicants were convicted of various criminal offences committed in the district of Stutterheim.  It is in respect of those offences that we are here today.  I must ask you, Jimmy, the charge sheet in 1992, alleged that you were a man of 26 years of age.  At the time of the commission of the offence you would have been a younger man, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: It appears to be common knowledge that conflict in the Eastern Cape went back well before 1990, that it had its origins prior to that.  In about 1985, Jimmy, that's the time period that I'm going to be asking you about, you would have been a much younger man, Jimmy, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I was still very young.

MR KINCAID: Your fellow applicants are all still fairly young men, Jimmy, do you confirm that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is true.

MR KINCAID: It appears as though the trend was that the youth of the day, and I'm talking now the day, at the beginning of the '90's, were at the forefront of the conflict, of the tension in Stutterheim, do you confirm that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Tell us about life as a young man in the Kabusi township where you live, Jimmy.  What happened there, how did the youth see the events of that time period?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: We used to view these events as the events that were disrupting our lives as the youth, to such an extent that I had to leave school, I was still schooling.  I had to leave school because of those problems.  One other thing that made us to experience trouble in our lives, it's because even in our residential area we were not very happy, more especially our parents, because every day we used to be affected by this teargas.  That is what was disturbing us and we had to interfere, we saw us interfering in this.

MR KINCAID: You mentioned teargassing, what were the nature of these disruptions, how was your daily routine disturbed or affected by the tensions at the time?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Our daily life was, day and night we had to hold roadblocks on the bridge that was coming to our residential area, to try and prevent the police from coming in, the police that were harassing us with teargas.  The reason behind all this was that there was a boycott at Stutterheim, and we were forced to keep peace and order in our residential area, as the youth.

MR KINCAID: Is it fair to say that the youth exercised a fair amount of authority and power in the Kabusi township where you lived?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: They fulfilled responsible positions? - you mentioned they set up roadblocks.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: So for a young man to be living in that environment in the mid-'80's and the early '90's, what was called of them, what was expected of them was to show responsibility and to protect those of his community, would you agree with that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: A young man had to interfere to get involved in trying to keep peace and be in places where the roadblocks were.  The youth was supposed part in each and everything that would lead to peace in the residential area.

MR KINCAID: Do you know why the youth became involved, why was it them, why did they involve themselves with these conflicts?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The reason was solely because what was happening in our residential area, there was an announcement from our leaders to embark on boycotts because there were discussions that were taking place between the mayor and the community.  Mr Ferreira was a Mayor in town, but all those negotiations failed because they were about to try to get us schools, to build us schools and have running water and the shelter or house, because most of the people were squatting on other people's properties.  But all those negotiations failed.
	I was not in the forefront in those discussions because I was not in the leadership.   All those affected us and another person who was always next to us, Mr Mfana.  The youth was always affected all the time because this was also affecting the schools that is why the youth was also affected by this problem.