Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  I will lead you with questions so that you can tell us your story and to clarify certain matters.
 Are you here to talk about your husband?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Was he working for the Municipality?

MS KOBESE: No, he wasn't working.  He was not employed.

REV XUNDU: His name is Labourer Notiti Steven?

MS KOBESE: He is Doyisele Steven.

REV XUNDU: Please tell us your story?

MS KOBESE: Steven left me on Sunday, he told me that he was visiting Mr Fani.  He did not come back until Monday.  There was a young man who came, who was sent by the Fani family to inform us that he was run over by a car and he was also axed.

REV XUNDU: Who is Fani?

MS KOBESE: Mr Fani is staying with us in the township, but he is in Parliament now.

REV XUNDU: You said that he was run over by a casper?

MS KOBESE: Yes, a van.

REV XUNDU: Is it a police van?

MS KOBESE: No, it was a van who was driven by Amagoloda, the people who were known as Amagoloda.

REV XUNDU: Who are these people?

MS KOBESE: They were the people who were following Nohashe.

REV XUNDU: Who was Nohashe?

MS KOBESE: Nohashe was the Mayor at Fort Beaufort at the time.

REV XUNDU: You said that Nohashe had followers?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: These people were assaulting you?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Who was Kobese?

MS KOBESE: Kobese was on Fani's side.

REV XUNDU: You mean that he was an activist?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: After being run over by this van and they also assaulted him with axes, did he go to a hospital?

MS KOBESE: Yes, the police came and they took him to hospital.  When we arrived there, we were told to come in the next morning.  They then told us  to go back home because he was feeling cold.
 We then visited him the next morning, he was better that day.  He told us that he was feeling better, but he did not notice these people who ran him over, he said that there were many people, they left him there dead.

REV XUNDU: They left him for dead?  He was discharged from hospital?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: He came back home?

MS KOBESE: Yes, he came back home.

REV XUNDU: Did he work?

MS KOBESE: No, he did not work, he was not well, he was not feeling well because he had a black spot in the stomach.

REV XUNDU: When did he die?

MS KOBESE: He died in 1990.

REV XUNDU: He died after six years?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: After that incident?

MS KOBESE: Yes, after that incident.

REV XUNDU: Was there any case opened?

MS KOBESE: No, there was no case opened, but the police just wanted to know where he was coming from when he was assaulted.

REV XUNDU: Ms Kobese, by coming to the Commission, what are your expectations?

MS KOBESE: I would like the Commission to help me with my children, because they are not at school.

REV XUNDU: How many are they?

MS KOBESE: They are three.  One of them is still doing standard 7 and the other one is doing standard 9.

REV XUNDU: You would like the Commission to help you to support your children?

MS KOBESE: Yes, and also my younger child.

REV XUNDU: Is there anything else you want to add?

MS KOBESE: No, there is nothing.

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, let me hand over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ntisiki Sandi.

ADV SANDI: The people who were referred to as Amagoloda, who gave them this name?  The people called them Amagoloda or what?

MS KOBESE: Yes, people called them Amagoloda, they referred to him as Amagoloda.

ADV SANDI: What did they mean when they were saying they were Amagoloda?

MS KOBESE: Because they were assaulting people, we were members of the ANC, they were Amagoloda, they were known as Amagoloda in the location.

ADV SANDI: Were there any other people who died because of the conflict between Amagoloda and the people?

MS KOBESE: Yes, and some of them were injured.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Ma'am.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Nowatase, you mentioned Matinka's name who was working for the South African Police.  What is the connection in this case?

MS KOBESE: No, I don't know him.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Kobese, as he recovered after this, did he notice any of these people?

MS KOBESE: He said that he did not notice any of these people because it was at night.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did he think the perpetrators were Amagoloda?

MS KOBESE: He saw a brown van coming towards him.

CHAIRPERSON: You mean that Amagoloda were using brown vans?

MS KOBESE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The police vans?

MS KOBESE: No, the Toyota.

CHAIRPERSON: He saw a van?

MS KOBESE: Yes, he noticed that they were driving this van.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Kobese, we will investigate this matter.  We have been given this responsibility to investigate such matters.
 Our Investigative Unit will try and investigate, but I would like to point out that it would be very difficult to investigate this but if we can get assistance from the community, if people can come forward, who are going to be
witnesses, for this case, or if there are people who applied for amnesty, who would help us, it would be easy because your husband did not see anyone, he did not even see the number plate of the van, but we will try to investigate this matter.  If we succeed we will tell you, but we will try even if we can fail, thank you Mrs Kobese.