Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-05

MR DUMA JOSHUA KHUMALO: I will relate about what happened in 1984 on the 3rd March.  It was in September, I am very sorry.  I was a student at Sebokeng Training College.  Not this one, it was not yet built this one.  It was still in Zone 7 then.  It was my second year.  Now it so happened that there were some meetings.  I never used to attend those meetings.  I didn't know a thing about politics but on the 3rd September when there was a march I was there like any other person and there was no one actually who forced me to join that march. I actually took that decision myself.  It so happened that we were coming along Zwine Street and we HRV/861 met a group/...
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met a group coming from Vuga and were quite large in number.  And the police approached from the other street and some were approaching from the back and some from the front, shooting.  When I tried to escape run and one got shot and fell.  And he shouted for me to come and help and I took him to the nearest house and we helped him with the mother of that house.  I knew that person very well.  The name was Mango Mketsi.   We spent some time in the house because he was shot at the ankle.  After that we left the house, we did not go to back to Zwine Street because the tar road was occupied by the police.  I tried to take him slowly to his place.  It happened that on that very day we heard that Mr Dlamini has been banned.  Now that was the end from my side.  On the 5th December around three in the morning there was a knock at the door.  I opened the door.  I found out it was - there were many people who was outside and they asked are you Duma and I said yes.   They said dress up and come along with us.  I dressed up, I left with them.  I actually took my pass and I went with them.  They went to Don Gwise (?) and he was not there.  They left for Oupa (?) place and they found him and they took him to another car.  The car left.  It went to Theresa Ramasamo.  She was there and she was taken to the front of the car.  When she got inside she looked at the back and say are you here also Duma, I said yes.  I said no don't worry, they are still going to question us.  We will be back.  When we got to Vereeniging police station - actually when we were still talking the boer insulted her.  I don't remember quite well what the boer said but I know for a fact he insulted her.
They took us to Vuka police station.  When we arrived at Vuka they took one to the other corner, one to the other
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corner and they said talk now.  What happened on the 3rd September?  I said I don't know anything.  And he said to me you are a snake.  I don't quite remember what he said but he was talking in Afrikaans.  He said to me you are a snake and we will shoot the snake in the head.  And he said sign here, and I signed there.  He called us and he said get into the car.  He said occupy the front seat and the rest should go to the back.  He didn't ask those anything though because at the time it was my first time in my life to be in that kind of a situation.  I could do anything.  I could actually leave the car while the car was in motion but I think he did notice that I could do anything and then he said hey come and sit in front next to me and they went to lock us up at Vereeniging police station.  Saturday morning they took us, they took us into the combi.  They actually chained our feet.  Or they actually chained us on the seat of the combi.  They took us to Diepkloof, Sun City.  When we arrived there they told us that we are under Section 29 and they locked us up in cells, different cells.  One in each cell.  The windows of the cell I was in were actually broken.   I took one of the pieces of the bottles - of the window glasses, I ate them.  I actually ate lots of some pieces, glass pieces.  I could not eat.  I didn't have any appetite.  At the back was some blood coming.  I was excreting blood.   One guy said to me look, you are not born in prison.  Even though you can stay here for a long time but you leave.  That was the doctor and after then I felt consoled, I stayed in the prison.  But my heart was against that.  I told some other inmates that I cannot stand this life, maybe we should come
up with a plan that one of us maybe can escape or go to the hospital and tell other people that hey it is difficult, it
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is hell.  I met Christen Mgbone in the prison and Gideon Mgwono and some others from Sebokeng.  None of us was brave but I said to them okay break my leg.  They took some tissue and inserted the tissue in my mouth and they took the bucket, water bucket, to hit me on my feet trying to break my feet so I can go to the hospital.  But we did not succeed in that plan.  After some weeks Reverend Selane and some others from the ANC like Lucky Twala and Oupa Mhlmogo of AZAPO and Tom Mhlapa of Inkatha when they came we started now talking about the politics.  After some time I got used and I even forgot the fact that I was in prison.  It is difficult, it is hard in the prison but when you have met people you forget where you are.  Every afternoon when it is lights off around eight everyone will just come by close to talk about politics.  That is where I learned the politics.  One day they saw that the food was not of standard and the treatment was not of standard and we were not even allowed to read the newspapers and books.  We could only read the Bible, we were only allowed to read the Bible.  Now one day they suggested maybe we shall be on hunger strike.  We were  on hunger strike for seven days and we were not all of us.  Not all of us were part of the hunger strike.  On the seventh day doctors came.  They said they were still going to talk to the police but in the meantime they will take some of us to choose what kind of food we can eat.  They took Vuzilane and they took Lucky and they took Tom Mhlapa to go to the kitchen to choose what kind of food we could eat.  They came back with food and we forgot really that we were in prison.  We even forgot our homes because now we
were learning.  In 1985 on the 23rd April the police came and they took me and Gideon Mgwono and Christen Mgbone and
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Theresa Ramasamon. They said when we got to the reception they told us that they are releasing us under Section 29 but still they were arresting us now for murder, meaning they were going to charge us now formally for murder.  They took us to Krugersdorp.  When we arrived at Krugersdorp we met others who were coming from Sharpeville, Reginald (?) and Oupa Ndiso and Don Magise.  It was wonderful really.  You know I don't know how to describe the prison.  It was all happy.  That day we actually did not sleep.  We celebrated.  You know it has been a long time we haven't seen one another.  The following day they took us to Houtkop and they charged us.  Attorneys were already there waiting for us. Ismail Ayob and Association.  But we thought we will get bail to be released but you know one of the most painful thing when I arrived there is that my parents were not told and it has been a long time that I haven't seen them.  They were not even there at the court.   It was my first sign that I cried.  And I cried like a baby.  When we got to (indistinct) they came on Saturday.  We were there.  In August the 23rd they took us to Pretoria and they said our case will begin on September.  I will speak from my side.  You know I didn't have a problem regarding the case because I will tell the truth before the Judge. It so happened that when the trial gets started going on something that surprised me came out.  One of the state witness said saw me pushing the car from the garage and saw me putting petrol in the car of the deceased and there were children in the car with the deceased as well and said I was preparing, making the petrol bomb, giving - supplying people with the petrol
bomb.  And if I did not give you a petrol bomb I will give you the stone.  You know it like supplying people about
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stones and petrol bombs and that scared me.  I can't make a petrol bomb.  If I could make one I would have revenged after I was released from prison.  It so happened that the second witness, it was said that he should come and pin me down.  He was a student at Roma and went to the father who is present right here.  Father Leonard sent him to the attorneys, the very same attorneys that represented us.  One took the statement, he actually didn't know that the family was representing us.  They took the statement.  He stated that he was there.  The police took him to Krugersdorp and he was bitten and they said he should take me.   We discovered that the law did not allow to share an attorney because we were represented by the very same firm as well.  They asked him to go and look for another attorney and he was told to go and look for Bam and he gave the statement then.  Arrangements were made with the prosecutor that the day when Maneta was coming to give his evidence Bam should be called because he is the one who is representing him.  The prosecutor did not do that.  Now because there was some knowledge about his statement they asked the Judge that Maneta should be excused to leave for a while and they told the Judge that he actually supplied some statement showing that the evidence that he was going to give was not the truth but all that was the police influence.  And Maneta was called back again and he was asked if he knew about the statement he gave to some attorneys and he said yes.  And the Judge said to him he had that right of saying anything about that statement and also he had a right of refusing to say anything about the statement and the Judge asked him
what do you choose and he said I choose not to say anything about that statement.  My attorney at the time was Jack and
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he told the Judge that if it can happen that the Judge allows Maneta not to say anything about the statement it can happen that we can actually be sentenced to death.  He told the Judge that Maneta's statement would assist to show that there was no investigation that was conducted in as far as this case is concerned.  They just said he did not have authority of overruling the privileged statement.  As the case went on when I went to give the evidence I called the person who was injured and the other lady and they came to give evidence.  Their evidence was accepted at the court of law.  Yes I have said some lie to the Judge and I said I was forced, I was taken by force but it wasn't true.  As I have already explained to this Commission that I joined this march at my own choice.  On the 10th - on the 13th December the Judge sentenced us to death.  We were six.  Two were sentenced for eight years and we were also sentenced for eight years for submission.  He did something that I didn't expect in my life.  When he announced the sentence of death that was heavy.  He told us that you will go back where you are coming from.  You will be there until time comes for the day of your death.  You will die that day.   Truly we left for the Central Prison.  When we got to the door two were escorting us.  The boer who was working there asked how was our behaviour.  He answered and said terrible,  meaning we were not arrested because we were coming from the nearest court.  People were known about chains coming there dragging in chains.  He said to us op die lyn, meaning we should walk by the wall, right next to the wall, not anywhere.  When we got to the office we found some clothes there waiting for
us.  I was the tallest.  You see I got the short pants or trousers.   The other one who was the shortest got the
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shortest trouser and he was asked to give that to me and that was the worst now.  Now they took us two sections, to different sections.  It was at night when we got there.  There was A1, A2, A3.  I was at A3.  When I got there its door, I can't even describe it.  But the key was so tiny, they opened, I got inside and there was this mattress.  Coconut mattress down there.  You know the bed looks like this floor, it is wood.  The blankets were stinking.  You know as we had arrived on the 13th December my neighbour told me that they had just closed - your cell was being used like a port.  You know the port, it is where people who have been sentenced to death go to.  You know there is things that I discovered as time went on as I occupied that cell.  That as December was nearing they were trying by all means to reach a certain number of people, getting people out of the cells and convert those cells to this port. You know when they say the cell is the port they take out the mattress, they get the underwears and take your clothes so you can not be able to kill yourself.  The first day when we arrived I could not sleep.  It was difficult.  I was crying all night long until I fell asleep.  The second day in the morning they said we are going to be slashed.  You know only eight could come in, you should smear some soap on your body.  When I got back they gave us some porridge and cold tea.  I could not eat.  My neighbour on the other side said no just leave him alone, he is panicking over the sentence.  I was surprised that how could he say that.  Because we were sailing in the same boat, we were there for two or three days you know without eating.  We did not have appetite
actually.  Time was drawing closer to Christmas.  When Christmas came, Christmas day Adjutant (indistinct) Arnot
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brought some sweets outside by the - down and the sergeant will open the door and you should just take those sweets.  In other words that meant you are a dog.  They decorated with different colours out there where they were killing people towards Christmas they were put all decorations and balloons.  Boers were enjoying.  In January on the 4th of 1986 they brought some person coming from KwaZulu.  It was some time that he has been there.  They put her next to my cell and they brought two other Coloureds.  There were actually four.  Those were the very first people I saw them taking them to the port.  When you are in that port you talk from the morning.  Actually you talk for 24 hours.  I was their neighbour.  I was these peoples' neighbour.  They were singing, doing all sorts of things and one told me that those were going to be hanged.  They give you seven days.  On the 6th day two got a stay for execution and the 60 year old man was hanged.  I began now to be uncomfortable because he occupied the third cell from my cell.  They took me to another one.  When my attorney came I said hey it is hard here, it is difficult. One of the accused said is there no way we can get bail and he said there is no way you can be granted bail when you have been sentenced to death.  I said fine.  So we were there until we got used to that.  It so happened that I said right next to Akipi of the ANC, opposite his cell. I was very older than this guy opposite me. He was a member of Umkhonto we Sizwe.  He taught me politics.  If I hadn't met him I wouldn't have survived that life.  You know he was an orphan, which was the most pathetic part of it.  It so happened that every time when
they hang people, because I was in that port section, the last day will give them visual - night visual while the
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person was still alive on his very last day. On your last day they will give you chicken with no bones and they allow you to buy anything that you like.  There is hunger there.  There is starvation there.  There was another song, there were two songs.  This song say your death makes me to survive.  We only survived by that means, by those means for them to get some food and some extras to give us when they were being hanged.  In 1986 we were granted appeal and the Judge said it can happen that there has been a mistake, you made a mistake by not allowing us to ask Maneta about his statement.  You see that statement, Maneta's statement disappeared, it is no longer in court.  It is not even found in the records.  It was destroyed.  I think the Judge did all he could so that that statement was not avail to the court of law.  The mistake that I had already forgotten is the one that was applied to us of the common purpose.  I will get there.  When we went to the Court of Appeal to talk about the common purpose and frauds that was committed by the police the Judge, the three Judge protected that Judge, they said our attorney did not give the Judge enough evidence about that statement.  They said if my defence asked the Judge to read the statement, Maneta's statement,  I say that Judge should have asked to read that statement if he was interested of knowing the contents of the statement.  They said the Judge made a mistake also because the Judge did not have authority.  This means that the defence made mistake which is not true because he asked that this person has given this evidence being forced.  This is against his will.  The Appeal Court said the Judge had made a mistake
because he did not have authority and my attorney also made a mistake by not giving the Judge the details of the
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statement.  Because of that the case is out.  They failed to apply natural justice.  They did not really fail but they were protecting the trial Judge.  We had some hope and we believed that the Appeal Court, the outcome of the Appeal Court will be different.  So we were really destroyed when we were told that our case has been dismissed by the Court of law.  This meant we should make a petition for the State President.  When we have made a petition to the State President, that means at any time they can come to tell you that your time is over.  That you are not safe.  You are only safe on Saturdays and Sundays because during the week they don't come.  They came Saturday in the afternoon coming to look for some others.  You know each door there is your name and your details.  When they come to get the card with your details you know that it is over and they will say to you pack your clothes.  It is a difficult moment indeed.  When you try to pack your things you first take them out on your jacket and you will think no your jacket it is not wide enough and you will use a sheet.  You know just trying to wind up time because you know everything is over.  So we did make that petition for the State President regarding that fraud that was committed by the police.  I remember Lucky Dube because was the only one who got the appeal, there were two of them, but when his appeal failed he requested to see his accused in another section to tell him that and the major said why would you like to see him and he said I would just like to tell him that my appeal is over and he said you will meet in the port, and he refused.  I will remember Ogidi Kolkel (?) requesting from the jury saying the food is
little, can't you give us more food and he said you will receive your food in the port, you will get chicken.   See HRV/861 I had/...
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I had the shoes that were not - different shoes.  At times I thank my God because out of all the things I have said there are people who can witness to this, I had a big jersey on.  Something terrible happened there.  You were given clothes and blankets.  Maybe those clothes were used by another person who has just been killed.  You wear those clothes under a difficult condition.  You are not free when they take you into the cell, those are the blankets that were used by somebody who has been killed. You don't have any alternative, it is just that you have to use those blankets.  The spoons, cutlery and plates were of plastic and if you could break that you were in trouble.