Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I guess so, like everything else.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Absolutely.   And it had a serious side to it as well.    The last thing you, as chief executive officer, wanted to find out is if an aircraft was missing only when it was late on arrival or when it failed to make contact with an FIR?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: So one of the things... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Sorry, no, no, I mean you're making a number of things now.   I, as chief executive officer, would not be informed about that or would be interested in that.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: No, let me back and let me put the questions to you piecemeal.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Thank you.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: One of the functions of ZUR is, if there was a major problem aboard the airline, wherever it was, it would be expected, after the preliminaries of dealing with that contingency had passed, that they might be expected to inform the home base?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Sorry, when you, no, when you speak to ZUR, you are informing the home base.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: That's the point.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Okay.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: They would speak to ZUR and inform the home base?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Quite correct.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ZUR was not set up, at considerable time, cost and effort by SAA, to make certain that there was enough water on the aircraft when it landed at Seoul?   That would be inter alia one of its functions?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Correct, I've just referred to that earlier... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Correct.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...it might be the need for an armchair for a passenger on the aircraft or something similar... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: But of course... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...anything.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Any operational thing about the airline.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: But certainly ZUR, with a full-time tape recording facility was not set up solely to deal with the occasional armchair that you needed, or wheelchair?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: It had many functions.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Correct.   Of which notification of serious events aboard the aircraft was one of them?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Of course.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Right.   Could you think of a single reason for me on that score why members of South African Airways whom I've spoken to over the years, have always attempted to denigrate and lower the role of ZUR to that of providing water and wheelchairs, and incidentally it's interesting that you use both, because those are the examples which have often been quoted to me, with a diminution of the more crucial role which I've outlined to you and which you've already told me is one of the functions?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Uhum.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Could you think of a single reason why people wanted to get away from that real function?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Again, that's one of the functions, okay, but I cannot think of any one.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Mr Van der Veer, you've been commendably... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: When you say you cannot think of any one, you cannot think of any one reason... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

CHAIRPERSON: ...why anybody would try to (indistinct) diminution... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I'm not even aware of it, so... (inter-vention).

CHAIRPERSON: All right.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I'm not even aware of it so... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: In all fairness I would say to you, Mr Van der Veer, that you've been commendably open and I'm enjoying the interchange, in that I'm getting information now which has been previously inaccessible to me, despite extraordinary attempts to get the kind of information I'm getting from you.   Now... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Mr Chairman, on that point, sorry, did you approach the airline on that?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: In what way?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Telephonically, at numerous times.   But we'll deal with that.   Mr Van der Veer... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: In any event, now it is the TRC which, through him, is approaching you, so everyone's indebted to you.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Sir, I have no problem with that.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Mr Van der Veer, you've indicated to us previously that deep in your heart, and deep in the heart of the airline, there's a desire to find out the truth about this thing, however terrible it might have been, and yet, on every level that I have dealt with members of SAA staff, over the last 5 1/2  or six years, there is a golden thread which runs through every single investigation that I've made, and that is one of fear.   So much so that I had to resort at times to interviewing your staff members or ex-staff members clandestinely in places where they would recognise me and they would not explain to me how and when they were going to get there, it was very difficult.    Could you advance possibly a reason why there should be such a climate of fear which envelops the whole of the Helderberg story, apart from your lack of fear today?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I cannot think of any reason at all, except one.   Let me explain, Mr Chairman, I retired from that position in '93, okay?   I'm not aware that while I was chief executive of the airline that you approached me for any question in that regard.   Okay?    I have been approached subsequently, and I've been approached by a number of journalists, and Mr Chairman my attitude was exactly the same on every, every question I got, and the answer to that is "no comment", and the reason for that is not because I was not prepared to talk about the incident at all, on the contrary, but the last thing that I want to do is fire rumours or start rumours or encourage rumours about a very sensitive situation like the Helderberg, and any journalist that phoned me, and one or two did, I said to them, "If you have any evidence about the Helderberg accident, don't come and tell me about it, don't ask me questions, go to the powers that be", and I referred them specifically to the attorney, state attorney-general, and said, "Go to them, or the Department of Civil Aviation, and any question that they may have as far as where I can contribute, I will only be too pleased to assist with, but I'm not prepared to give evidence or to give comment on anything just from anywhere".

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: I think that we've strayed a little bit from the question.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Okay.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: The question was, and I'm going to assume your answer was no, the question was, can you think of a reason why the whole investigation should be pervaded by fear, and I'm sure your answer... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...must be no?   Okay.   Now, let me get back again, and I'm sorry to jump around like this, but I want to get back to that awful morning when it was dawning on you that the aircraft was overdue and probably missing.   Contact had been lost at Plaisance and the operators at ZUR knew about that, and you, by that time, were at the airport.  Are you aware, well let me rephrase that question, you must be aware that immediately after the aircraft went missing, numerous rumours surfaced, almost immediately?   You must be aware of those, sorry, I'm going to have to ask you for a verbal response onto the record?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: The answer is, one is aware of rumours at that point... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...and you have also yourself in your mind another 15 or 20 other... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: But of course.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...things, okay?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: But there were rumours?