Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-04

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: No, it was not parked, it was driving around.  It threw two petrol bombs and drove away suddenly, but we did, we did manage to get hold of the registration, car registration number, because when these boys went out to see what was happening, that is when the white policemen took out their guns, threatening to shoot them and also my
neighbour was the police, he also went out with his torch and the police left and ran away.

MRS SEROKE: Thank you Mrs Veronica, I will also hand you out, hand you to one of the panel members.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mama, thank you for that testimony.  I am not going to keep you much longer.  I just want you to help clarify something.  Four boys were found dead, you said, and they, and that they were found near a power line in Sekane.  How did the other three boys die, do you know?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: All of them were killed by the hand grenades.

RUSSELL ALLY: But in the case of your son there was also a bullet wound, that he had also been shot.

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: He was fortunate that the hand grenade only damaged his hand, but then they shot him on the head, because when we discovered him and when we were going to look for him at the mortuary, we discovered that he has been shot around the head.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did the, did the police ever say that or suggest that your son and his friends were trying to, to bomb the, the power line?  Was there any such suggestion that the grenades were used to?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: No, they did not make mention of that.

RUSSELL ALLY: Because, Mama, you may know that in the same period, 1985, June, July, that there was actually an operation, it was called Operation Zero Zero, which the Security Police were responsible for.  What it involved was giving to young Comrades, grenades that people pretended to be from the underground, from Umkhonto we Sizwe, giving these youths these hand grenades which were, which were booby trapped, so that when you pulled the pin out the hand
grenade would immediately explode and that there are people who have actually applied for amnesty, that this goes right up to, the then, Commissioner of Police and even the Minister of Police was aware of this, these activities.  Now, later today we will actually be hearing from one of the survivors, but in your statement you do not make any, any link between this attempt at giving these young activists these booby trapped hand grenades.  Is this something that you have learnt subsequently, because in your statement that does not come across.  You do speak about hand grenades, but you do not indicate where these hand grenades came from.  Can you just tell us a little bit more?  Do you have any idea of whether your son and his friends were also victims of this, this Operation, Operation Zero, Zero?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: I do not know where the grenades were from, but these boys were saying the grenades were given to people, were given by people who said they were coming from the, from exile and were coming to teach them how to use these grenades and they left, the very people, and took these boys with in a black car and with tinted windows, that was at night, they left with the boys and even suddenly the grenades started exploding.

RUSSELL ALLY: You may also have seen on the, on the news and the television that one of the people who was central to this, who posed as coming from the ANC was a certain Joe Mamasela who use to use the name Mike.  Did you ever hear from your, from the friends of your, of your son a name Mike or Scarface or Joe Mamasela?  Does this mean anything to you?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes, they said he was present, Joe Mamasela was present.  They say Joe Mamasela was the very one who gave them the hand grenades and driving this combi in
question.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Hugh.

MR LEWIN: Ma Veronica, could I just ask a few questions about, about your son?  When was he actually killed?  What date was it?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: June 26, June 26.

MR LEWIN: In 1985.

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: How old was he then?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: He was 19 years old.

MR LEWIN: 19, Okay and could you tell us a little bit about yourself now?  You have your son, Selby, with you.  What other children do you have and how do you look after them?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: I have no means of taking care of my family.  It is hard.  I am not employed.  Even Selby right next to me is not employed.  We are encountering difficulties.

MR LEWIN: And how big is your family, how many children?

VERONICA NUKWINDLA: I have four children.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Veronica, we hear the sad story that befell your family, more especially the last item of there being nobody to provide for the family, but I think you are still lucky that you have two or so sons by your side, much as we grieve for the loss of Vincent, but what is most encouraging is that the whole story is beginning to unfold and this is what we said when we said that amnesty hearings is bringing forth all the truth around what was taking place or what was happening to the young ones, the students and so on around Duduza, that is in the East Rand, and we hope out of these revelations we will be able to have the families
comforted in this that they know who the killer was and what is it they were being killed for.  That what they stood for is what we are enjoying today, that is a free and democratic South Africa.  So, we hope out of the amnesty hearings we shall have the full story and that, perhaps, you will even be enabled to attend the amnesty hearings where you can see the people who actually did all these things.  We thank you for your witnessing and we are one with the family.  The Truth and Reconciliation Commission together with you, we will strive to bring about the required peace in this country.  We thank you.  Give our regards to the family.

MR LEWIN: Two people have come in.  (Indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: Can you welcome these people, please?  Dr Ally will welcome, once more, some of the visitors that have just arrived.

RUSSELL ALLY: These are more members of the Clergy.  A special welcome to Reverend Mabanda and Bishop David Beechie ...

MRS SEROKE: Beatrie.

RUSSELL ALLY: ... Beatrie from the Anglican Church.