Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

GEORGE BIZOS: Because the evidence of Mr Visser is that some time before the Freedom Front was formed, which we were told was formed in 1994 by Mr Visser, if I remember correctly, he and you and Mr Roodt were members of this informal structure that stole money for the purposes of gathering arms, long before the public pronouncement of the formation of the Freedom Front.   What do you say to that?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I say to that, it is untrue, Mr Visser has told an outrageous lie.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, did you discuss the contents of your computer with Mr Visser after Mr Derby-Lewis's arrest?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I'm not sure of the nature of your question.   I was doing computer work for Mr Visser, and obviously I did discuss that in depth with him, yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: The contents of your hard disks in your computer you discussed with him because you were doing computer work for him?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: Why would you do that?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Because he approached me with a project to investigate bank interest rates, a fairly large project, which is an investigation of clients at banks who have overdrawn accounts, where banks make errors in their favour and the client is charged too much.   If you can then process the client's account with a computer, you can then calculate by how much their client overpaid and then reclaim that money from the bank.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well let's come directly to the point.   You told the committee that there was uncompromising information in your computer hard disks, but fortunately the police did not have a sufficiently competent expert to dig it out, otherwise you would have been trouble?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I do not remember telling him this, but as a matter of fact, Mr Chairman, that part is true.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, what was there on your hard disks that would have put you into a compromising position that would get you into trouble?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Mr Chairman, I'm not prepared to tell you that.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is that because you feel that if you answer the question truthfully, you may incriminate yourself?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Possibly, Mr Chairman.   I will state this though, for the record, that whatever I have on my computer, or had on my computer, had nothing, but nothing, to do with fraud or to do with stealing weapons, or to do with selling two-way radios or buying two-way radios.

GEORGE BIZOS: Or your relationship with Mr and Mrs Derby-Lewis?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I cannot say yes or no, I may have had a letter or to so them on the computer, I cannot say.

GEORGE BIZOS: Or the Hani assassination?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: That is not true, I have nothing on the computer, or had nothing on the computer related to the Hani assassination.

GEORGE BIZOS: What happened to those compromising hard disks?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I still have them, Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well we would only have your word that they were the ones that you spoke to Mr Visser about?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: You have my word for that, Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, your relationship with Mr and Mrs Derby-Lewis, firstly attention was drawn to the fact that Mrs Derby-Lewis's diary was punctuated with appointments between her and you on a fairly regular basis before Mr Hani's death?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: That would be correct, Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: What were all these appointments about?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I was helping Mr Derby-Lewis and Mrs Derby-Lewis on a regular basis.   At that time we were preparing for a bye-election in Krugersdorp, and I was there on many occasions helping with this, also helping Mr Derby-Lewis with computer work related to that bye-election.

GEORGE BIZOS: It wasn't just friendship that you, if I recall Mrs Derby-Lewis's evidence correctly, you were living alone and you would pop in once in a while for tea and ...(intervention).

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Let me say usually there would be a reason why I would drop in, but I'm not ashamed to say that I'm proud to call Clive Derby-Lewis and Gaye Derby-Lewis my friends.

GEORGE BIZOS: Are you proud of the fact that they killed, that he, at least, admits to having killed Mr Hani?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: It was a time of war.   In a time of war, if someone stands up and does something for his God and for his country, then I applaud that fact, sir.   That it was Mr Hani was incidental.   I have never met the man, I have nothing personal against him, it was an act of war.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you discuss, during these various occasions, on these various occasions when you and Mr Derby-Lewis and Mrs Derby-Lewis spoke, about the local election and the other minutiae about the state of war that the country was in in March/April 1993?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Sorry, sir, was that a question?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.   Did you discuss with them that there was a state of war during March/April '93?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I cannot remember a specific incident, but the topic was very widely discussed at the time, I'm convinced that we must have discussed it, yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what was the nature of the war that you and Mr and Mrs Derby-Lewis thought that was going on at the time?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: There's no doubt of what the nature of the war was, Mr Chairman.   We have an atheist, communist, terrorist organisation, which was in the process of taking over the country, and the consequences for us would be pretty severe.  Some of the consequences we are seeing today.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.   Did you regard Mr Chris Hani as the anti-Christ?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I don't remember actually saying that, but I would not argue with the definition.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did not, in your discussions with Mr Derby-Lewis, possibly refer to Mr Hani as the anti-Christ?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Not that I can specifically recall, though it is possible.

GEORGE BIZOS: And if there was this war, and if you regarded him as the anti-Christ, what was your feeling at the time, would his death have served your cause?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I was not in a position to make any decisions of that nature, I can only say that in a state of undeclared war such as we were in, the modus operandi of most concerned people was to sit and do nothing.   When someone does something, I'm not prepared to condemn it, even if they make a mistake.   In every war you find occasions where they kill their own soldiers.   It's a matter of someone has to do something.   If it's wrong, that is very sad, try not to repeat your mistakes.   That is in a time of war.

GEORGE BIZOS: You know that your evidence is almost a carbon copy of some of the things, on this issue, a carbon copy of what Mr Derby-Lewis has told this committee, Mr Clark?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: Maybe sir, that is because I look up to Mr Derby-Lewis with great respect and I respect his point of view, and perhaps unconsciously I've adopted some of those points of view and I'm not ashamed of it.

GEORGE BIZOS: And we understand that Mr Derby-Lewis's home was a place where braaivleis and other entertainments were held by persons sharing his and your view about Mr Hani being the anti-Christ and an enemy?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: That is certainly correct, sir, and there are, yes, a vast number of people who share this view.

GEORGE BIZOS: Who were at Mr Derby-Lewis's braaivleises?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: There were a number of occasions there, and some of them were braaivleises, indeed, as you say.

GEORGE BIZOS: And one of the persons that attended those braaivleises was Mr Walus, the first applicant in this case?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: That is correct, sir.

GEORGE BIZOS: On how many occasions did you meet him at the Derby-Lewis home?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I could not say how many times, but several times indeed.

GEORGE BIZOS: Several times.   During what period, would you say from the middle of 1992 up to and including his arrest on the 10th of April 1993?

EDWIN JOHN CLARK: I cannot confirm your first date, sir, I cannot remember, but it may be so.