Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-20

MR PRIOR: Yes.  So what effort did you make to get hold of those people and tell them, "listen, your car is somewhere here or there, or anywhere"?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Where we left it we take it they will reach it or some way of help will reach it.

MR PRIOR: The fact is you made no effort to really do that, did you?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I never made any effort.

ADV SANDI: Why did you not make any effort to do that, Mr Dolo?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We have to travel those few kilometres to reach our base and we have to keep on hiding, as generally the house was known to be an APLA house, and we expected that maybe if we travel around and we where known around in our area, so it will attracted the Police that and that would lead to our arrest.

ADV SANDI: You were running away from being apprehended from the Police?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: You may say so.

MR PRIOR: That's it, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, you've told us about the first car that came and the signal you were given and that it sped past you.  Do you remember telling us that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you then opened fire.  The car came to a stop, and the people got out and another car came.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you then traced the people.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you examine this car?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Which one?

CHAIRPERSON: The first car.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Myself, I never examined it.

CHAIRPERSON: Why not?  There was a car abandoned near you.  Why didn't you examine it?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: What for?

CHAIRPERSON: To use to get away.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We were still chasing people.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but after that you decided rather than examine this car, to steal somebody else's car.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: After we shot the second time we were far away from the first car, so there was no need to go back and take the second car.

CHAIRPERSON: You weren't that far away.  You may have been a hundred yards away.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Whether it was a hundred yards away, to us it was, it was not our destiny.  We were going forward to Herschel.

CHAIRPERSON: But the car was there.  Empty, available.  You didn't have to steal from others and cause more people ...(intervention)

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It never comes to our mind that we have to go and take the car.

CHAIRPERSON: Why not?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It never came to our mind.  We were chasing those other people.

CHAIRPERSON: The people who owned that car where all dead.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: And we were far away from it at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: You were a hundred paces away.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It take it to be more than hundred.

CHAIRPERSON: And you never went to look at it?  You never went to drive it away.  You rather steal from four women?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: What I say?

CHAIRPERSON: You would rather steal another car from four women that walk these few yards.  Have you forgotten you told us how you liked the exercise, how you marched 13 kilometres, or 16 kilometres there and 16 kilometres back?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The whole exercise ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: And now you say you couldn't be bothered to go and look at this car.  Are you telling me the truth, Mr Dolo?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I think you have to give me an allowance to answer you.

CHAIRPERSON: Well do.  Why did you not go and examine the car that was sitting there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was not part of our plan to go and take that car.

ADV SANDI: Mr Dolo, just look at paragraph 6 of your affidavit.  The first sentence, are you there?  Can you see it, Mr Dolo, paragraph 6.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Must I read it?

ADV SANDI: Where it says, I will read it to you:   "The target was identified by myself"  Then you go on to tell how you went about organising weapons etceteras, etceteras.  As I understand your evidence, you were implementing a policy of doing these things which you told us about.  Am I correct?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, you are correct.

ADV SANDI: And the targets you identified where so identified in line with that policy or a mission of APLA to attack whites, am I correct understand this?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, you are correct.

ADV SANDI: Where you in any way part of the decision that whites in general should be attacked?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: That lie to the hands of the High Command to take such decisions.

ADV SANDI: All you had to do in that context was simply to implement or execute those orders as you understood them?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, that's correct.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Mr Dolo.

CHAIRPERSON: It is now 16h52.  I do not think it would be practical to start a new witness at this stage.  We will not take the adjournment till 09h00 tomorrow morning, and I ask all interested parties please to try to be here and ready to start at 09h00.
HEARING ADJOURNS