Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-19

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you Mr Yalolo - I think to give you a break and we also have a lot of questions to ask you, so what we will do is take a tea break and then we will come back after tea and proceed with the questions, so is it okay to give you a break - okay.
 We will break for  twenty minutes for a tea break and then we will come back and finish with Mr Yalolo - thank you - please remember to leave your earphones.

MARY BURTON: We are to begin with the second half of the morning's program - just in case there are people who have just arrived, we welcome you all once again and explain that there are headsets for translation available in the hall.  Unfortunately there are not quite enough for everybody, so  you may be able to find that you can share with somebody if you can understand one language where the other person understands another.  We apologise for the fact that there is a shortage of the headsets - it's because we have hearings also in Umtata today and the other number of headsets has had to go there.
 We are continuing now with the testimony of Mr Geoffrey Yalolo - he spoke to us before we broke for an interlude and the panel are now going to ask him questions.  Dr Ramashala is facilitating his  evidence and we'll start.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Yalolo there seems to be - to have been some confusion about you and your brother's identity specifically to - with relation to  Cekibonga.  What role do you think Cekibonga - is it Cekibonga - the comrade who came in is his name Cekibonga?

MR YALOLO: Yes -  [indistinct]  police station.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay, police station, it seems that the person who was identifying you  incorrectly was Chekibonga and it seems like there was some confusion about who was named  Geoffrey and who was named Joseph - could you explain that a little bit - or give us your thinking about what you think was happening.

MR YALOLO: Before Chekibonga came in, they only thing happened they asked us our names - and then what happened after that is this.  They gave in our names -  I told them that I am Geoffrey, my uncle told him that he is Joseph.  While we were on our way out, Petersen came out with Chekibonga - he asked from Chekibonga can you identify these people and now what happened Chekibonga said yes.
After admitting so he asked whether does he know my uncle's name and he said no.  The policeman looked at him with no silence and he asked him my name and he said this is Joseph pointing at me, when they asked him again for  the second time, he said no this is Jeffrey.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: In your statement you said the first day they put a plastic over my head for eight hours,   and used electric shocks on my body and my head.  Could you explain that - exactly what they were doing with the electric shocks.

MR YALOLO: What happened there firstly this policeman they took me into this office, they tied me up there, they took this plastic bag and put it on my head and they put another things that I couldn't identify but there was something on top  of the plastic that covered my head, so it was very dark, I couldn't see anything.  I couldn't even breath - it was very hard for  me to breath.
They took me from where I  was -  I don't know whether they take me out of  this office, but there was an action.  Each and everyone from this offices - it was as if they told each other that I am in there, each and everyone came and kicked - came kick - beat - they do that, it was happening for the whole day, asking each other is this the one, they said yes and they  kick.
And then after they took off this plastic they put the electric wire on my hair and they  worked me with that  through it.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: What  do you mean they worked me through - I want you to be specific if you can.

MR YALOLO: With this wires, they put the wires on my head - they shocked me with them -  there was something that they put on my hairs, something that was - if it was twisting my hair and then pulled my hair up.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Am I correct to say that you  were a member of the UDF.

MR YALOLO: You are not making a mistake at all.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And I am asking that because it seems that they were being  [indistinct] on getting information from you, thinking that you had something, what was your position in the UDF.

MR YALOLO: I had no position, I was just an ordinary member.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Chairperson I'll yield to my colleagues and then I may come back again for  some more questions.

RUSSELL ALLY: Geoffrey what kind of information is it that they wanted from you?

MR YALOLO: The information they wanted from  me, I couldn't even tell, it's only them who knew what they were looking for, because they were the one who was beating me - they wanted the information about what was happening here in George.

RUSSELL ALLY: But anything specifically did they want you to admit to certain things that had happened?

MR YALOLO: They said to me the reason for the violence and struggle in George and the UDF to  be in power, it was because of me.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did they ever give you any statement which they wanted you to sign or did they - or did they try to force you to make a statement.

MR YALOLO: They wanted me to give in a statement saying there is something that I know or what do I say about the thing that they are accusing me of.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did they want you  to name names and inform them on specific people is that what was going on?

MR YALOLO: In the offices where they use to put me in, they pointed out  some people - they wanted to know  about those people, they wanted to know whether are they involved in the struggle.

RUSSELL ALLY: You  say that you were eventually charged on six accounts, on assault, on people's courts on other charges what - what happened?  Were you ever found guilty on those charges or  were you acquitted?

MR YALOLO: We tried to find lawyers from the UDF - those were the lawyers who helped us not be charged against anything.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] acquitted you say.

MR YALOLO: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: [indistinct] three policeman specifically Petersen, Steyn and Tise - were these people directly involved in - in actually torturing you or were they only present?

MR YALOLO: They were deeply involved because each and everyone who  was assaulting me, they were in charge.

RUSSELL ALLY: They were there when electric shocks were applied to you.

MR YALOLO: They were also involved in there.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.
UNKNOWN;
What was your views on the conflict of the time  [indistinct] as a member of UDF?

MR YALOLO: Are you asking on what was happening to me, can you please clarify this question to me.
UNKNOWN;
On the situation that was happening to you and in your country, I would like to know your views.

MR YALOLO: What was happening in the country - everything that was happening in the country was a struggle for oppression - I was part of the people who were in struggle for the freedom of our  country.
UNKNOWN;
What about the policemen views, how were they?

MR YALOLO: Policemen were seeing it that each and everyone who was in struggle for freedom if we don't kill them, they must be locked in.

MARY BURTON: The things that you have talked about, most of them happened while you were in detention is that right?

MR YALOLO: Yes.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] were charged and you were sent to the Rooihel prison.

MR YALOLO: Yes it's like that.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] prison.

MR YALOLO: It is here in George.

MARY BURTON: The torture that you have described to us, that happened before you were charged.

MR YALOLO: Yes it's like that.

MARY BURTON: Quite a long time that you  were in detention and being taken out of the cell and tortured and then taken back to the cells.

MR YALOLO: I was detained.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] times a place on the third floor of a building in York Street, why did they  take you  to - to another building?