Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   I should think it was a base camp because it happened one day that when I was driving through the area I saw a white person who was standing next to the road.  He was full of blood.  I took him in my car, and as he was talking I could gather than he was a policeman from Johannesburg, and I do not know what happened, but apparently a certain sergeant took off his police clothes and released him to walk.  He himself and another youth were in the bus and the Comrades got them in the bus and they assaulted them.  That's how I got him in the street, and he asked me to take me to the base.  That's when I discovered that there was this base next to the farm.

INTERPRETER:  Do you know the people who are controlling the base?

WITNESS:   No. Father, just a brief question.  That night you met

INTERPRETER: Mr Ntombela at the crossroads near the mission, where he appeared to be waiting for you, you said there were two white policemen with him.  Who were those policemen?  Do you know them at all?

WITNESS:   I didn't recognise them.  I had never seen them before.

INTERPRETER: Thank you.

INTERPRETER:  My last question, Father Smith.  This is quite a commendable job that you've done.  Is there any support or any assistance or aid that you got from other leaders of the churches within that area?

WITNESS:   I don't know whether I can get you well.  Do you - are you asking me if I need help?

INTERPRETER:  I say at the time this was taking place, and you were trying to identify yourself with the victims, you mentioned that you went to your archbishop for assistance.  What I mean is other leaders of the churches, were they able to assist you at that time or during that period?

WITNESS:   Yes, at the time we were helped by the PACSA organisation as well as other reverends - Ben Simbi, Mr Kirchoff and quite a number of other reverends.  They offered a lot of support, but what I realised was that a number of them were quite scared to get directly involved in helping violence victims.

INTERPRETER: Father Smith, there is only questions that I would like to ask you.  The first one, I want to get some clarification on a certain issue if you could have some insight.  The Inkatha impis, when they went around announcing that the Comrades were attacking certain areas,  /according

INTERPRETER: according to your own opinion why were they doing this?

INTERPRETER: Was it a certain strategy that was being implemented in order to achieve a certain goal?  And the second one is that you have left us with a challenge that the community of Elandskop can ask some thing from the Commission.  I was asking for your opinion as a person who was directly involved.  Do you have any suggestions that you would like to put forward to the Commission?

WITNESS:   I do not have any first-hand information as to why there were false alarms, but what I can tell you is that on the 28th and the 29th, when the impi was coming back, there was this state of panic, I think because they were attacking further down the villages, and they thought that probably the Comrades were going to launch a counter attack, especially because people were always armed with traditional weapons, as well as guns.  It was quite scary at that time.  Secondly, because they were attacking and all the roads in the town were closed people were not able to commute to work or to go and see his or her relatives.  With regard to the second question, I think this is a very difficult situation.  I do not know how the people at Elandskop can be helped.  I think they have been severely traumatised, because a number of them were not members of Inkatha on their free will, but they were forced and coerced to join the Inkatha.   Another man said to me, "Reverend, we are all members of Inkatha because of Ntombela's insistence.  If Ntombela could go away we would all reject Inkatha."  Now you as the Commission, if you can initiate a process whereby you can call upon all the leaders who were forcing members of the community to join certain political groups, and force people to launch  attacks on each other, it's when that the people will realise that there is justice.  Right now they do not feel safe, they do not feel secured, they do not know who to run to for assistance.

INTERPRETER:  Just one last question, Father.  Yesterday we had what would appear to me to be an unbelievable piece of wisdom from a witness who testified, Mr Enoch Zondi, and he said that to his mind of thinking it's wrong to call this event a war.  What are your views on that?

WITNESS:   I thought nobody could put that better than he said that.  That was beautifully put.  It wasn't a war, this was an evasion.  It was an invasion from one side to the other.  What we have heard from the side of Gezabuso, KwaShange, KwaMnyandu, there was hardly any person able to resist, hardly any resistance of any kind.  That's not a war.  A war is when two sides fight more or less equally.  So I think that was very well put.  It's a misnomer to call it a war.  It was a cleansing, a political cleansing.

INTERPRETER:  Father Smith, two witnesses yesterday mentioned the role of the South African Defence Force, and they said that had the Defence Force been properly deployed there during the Seven Day War they would easily have been able to prevent most of the conflict which took place - if they had been properly deployed, a sufficient number of vehicles and men.  What are your views on that?  You haven't mentioned the Defence Force in your testimony this morning.

WITNESS:   I agree with that completely.  I am sure even a small force of the army could have prevented that whole attack.  But even a small police force properly deployed to suggest - well, to strongly suggest that this  was not a legal act, that it was not supported, would have done the trick.  We never saw the army until the following

INTERPRETER: Tuesday.  I think about the 2nd or the 3rd of April was the first time we ever saw the army at Elandskop.  Far too late.  All of the death and the carnage was over.  Yes, I agree.  I think a small force of army, even a small force of police, could have stopped that if they'd wanted to.

INTERPRETER:  Finally, several other witnesses testifying before this Commission in other towns and cities have mentioned the role of Brigadier Buchner, and you indicated this morning that it was a key turning point when he arrived in November 1987.  And you spoke of Buchner rallying the Inkatha leadership, particular Ntombela, Shayabantu Zondi and the other Chief Zondi.  Are you just expressing an opinion here, or a view?  Is this something that you are personally aware of, things that you've been told about?  Can you express any opinion on that?

WITNESS:   I think there is quite a lot of evidence for that.  There's evidence, for example, in what actually happened, that there was a resurgence of Inkatha during those months, and especially in January.  There's evidence from people who seem to have leaked the information.  For example the Natal Witness published in 1990 an account of Operation Doom, so they had information about it.  Thirdly, there's information from Brigadier Buchner himself.  His own words which have been published in written form express clearly that in that period, November/December/January, he turned the situation around.  I think if you put all those things together it's very obvious that there was a rallying of the leadership.  What actual plans were made, those we don't know, but we know a certain amount from different

INTERPRETER: sources.

INTERPRETER: sources.

INTERPRETER: Yes, I think we certainly know from that period, and