Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-26

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: I don't think they were varied, I think they were simply the zip up ones, you get both types, and I think both were in use.  You get the one that is tubular and open at one end and you slide the body in, or the one that zips up from the side, at three sides, to open to form a sheet.

MR LAX: Yes, and this ...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, were they black in colour or colourless, transparent?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: It was usually white.

CHAIRPERSON: Usually white?

MR LAX: This wasn't one of those then?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: I don't think so.  I am just, I cannot independently recall, but I believe that had I seen an independent body bag, I would have made a note of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Naidoo, you said that you sent Dr Aiyer to exhume the, to attend the exhumation because you weren't available, otherwise you would have gone yourself, so you sent him there in your place?
	That was done and then when after that, can you recall, would you have received that bag?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Only in the morning that I did the post-mortem examination for the first time.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but when was that in relation to the exhumation?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Oh, I did the examination the 9th of May and Dr Aiyer did his exhumation on the 5th of May, so there are four days.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, were you satisfied that that body that came, was the same one that was exhumed, did you have any doubts or difficulties in that regard?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: No reason to doubt that Mr Commissioner.  No particular reason to doubt it at all.

CHAIRPERSON: If another body, or set of remains had been brought, would they have been brought with an explanation, or would it just have been handed over to you by a policeman?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: It would be just handed over.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: There have been instances of mixed identity, but we are particularly careful to make sure that we screen the cases, and ensure that this is accept to be the one that they say it is.

CHAIRPERSON: And you did, did you do that?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You were satisfied?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: I would go through that procedure, ask the person "is this the one that was exhumed at this cemetery" and receive that affirmation.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Are there any questions arising out of questions that have been put by members of the panel?

MR VISSER: Chairperson, no, except that I remembered what I wanted to put.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, the third point?

MR VISSER: In fact there are four points, Chairperson.  May I just repeat them?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: I would submit ...

CHAIRPERSON: You have said height and you have said the broken right arm as factors?

MR VISSER: As factors and pointing to a mismatch.  And then of course the bullet hole which Chetty didn't find?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And then also as we have learnt from Dr Aiyer's report and from what I asked you here today, the pelvis, the broken pelvis.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MR VISSER: Perhaps not a great point, but that was also not noted by, because he obviously noted nothing?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MR VISSER: So that is also perhaps a difference, would you agree?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.  You were pointing out four differences?

MR VISSER: Yes.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: I am accepting that what you say, are differences in the report, in two reports?

MR VISSER: Yes, and on the evidence Dr Naidoo?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes, I don't know how to answer this, except that I should say that I am suggesting an explanation for each one of those.

MR VISSER: Yes, no, I  in fact conceded that you had an explanation for each of them.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MR VISSER: Yes, thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions arising out of questions put by the panel?

MR LAX: Just one thing Chair, just for my own benefit, Dr Naidoo, maybe I am just being a bit obtuse here, but are you saying that these four factors that Mr Visser has just put to you, you don't regard them as significant?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: I don't, for reasons which I have already given.

MR LAX: For the reasons you had already given?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Dr Naidoo, we are not sure exactly what the position is relating to whether or not you have completed your testimony.
	Mr Visser has indicated that he will probably consult with certain expert witnesses, there may be a requirement for a further attendance.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But I would like to thank you for attending today and for testifying and it may in fact be the last time that you testify in this matter.  Until otherwise advised, that is the end of your testimony.  Thank you very much.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: I think we can adjourn now.  Mr Wills, as indicated earlier, we would prefer it as a panel if we could finish the evidence this session, despite the uncertainty about the recall of Dr Naidoo because we had rather have the possibility of finishing the evidence, then a definite part-heard, because to get us all together again, is always difficult, not only the panel, but all the legal representatives.

MR WILLS: Yes, I appreciate that Mr Chairperson.  I would suggest that we reconvene tomorrow and we finish the evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We appreciate that.  Would half past nine be convenient tomorrow morning?

MS THABETHE: Sorry Mr Chair, before we adjourn, should we prepare argument, should we assume that ...

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I asked Mr Wills, Mr Wills came to see us about adjourning at four o'clock, because he informed us that he had another matter at half past four, and I asked him if he would speak to the legal representatives on this question of argument.  I know Mr Visser has indicated that they would like to prepare written heads of argument, Mr Wills I think also indicated that.  I think if we can finalise that tomorrow, but I would prefer it if the legal representatives spoke to each other, and arrived at some arrangement amongst themselves in that regard.

MR VISSER: Chairperson, if you will allow me, if the matter is going to postpone, and if we might go on later, there is no point in arguing now.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Yes, it might be premature if there is further evidence.
	At this stage we will work on the basis that there will be written Heads, but we will get to the details of that later.
	Thank you, so we will adjourn now to the same venue tomorrow, half past nine.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURN