Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

UNKNOWN: I'm not sure about anything because I was at work, it was the 15 March, it was about that time...(tape ends) ... because they weren't able to keep that money out because they didn't know what it was used for. This young boy of mine was from school by that time. I think maybe when they joined the road that most (indistinct) police station, that is why the time people were being dispersed.
 I think he was fooling these people together with his school children. This thing fell from the police van and was picked up by this young boy.

DR RANDERA: You said that you went to see Advocate Moseneke and some charges were laid. Were the charges laid against this young boy and his parents or were the charged laid against the Bop police?

UNKNOWN: The charge was opened against the Bop police.

DR RANDERA: Can you just tell us about Ronnie. How - I see he is in his school uniform here today - how is he doing at school?

UNKNOWN: After he got injured on his head, he has headaches. Sometimes he complains with his eyes, and he is not performing as good as he did before the incident. Because the doctor told me that the nerves on the side on which he was shot are not working anymore. He is only working with one side of his head nerves, or brain nerves.

DR RANDERA: What standard is he in now?

UNKNOWN: He is repeating Std 4.

DR RANDERA: This is the first time he is repeating Std 4?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he is repeating Std 4.

DR RANDERA: (Indistinct) same thing all the time.

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was only passing the first time that he is repeating.

DR RANDERA: Okay, I have no further questions, I'm handing over to the chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce?

MS SEROKE: The boy who threw, which injured Ronnie, where is he?

UNKNOWN: He's attending school.

MS SEROKE: How old is he?

UNKNOWN: I'm not sure how old is he but, then he was eight years old and he was a little bit older.

MS SEROKE: Did you go to his parents to complain about this incident?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we did went to the parents, but his mother didn't come to me and the mother is not concerned, but the person who came is the grandmother of that boy.

MS SEROKE: I would ask that the parents of that child should come and make a statement to us so that we would be informed or know what was happening on that day. (Indistinct) the statement takers, you must ask the parents of that child to come and make a statement.

RUSSELL ALLY: It's still not clear, and I just would appeal to the witness, to Mrs Vinger, to just try and be as clear as possible. In her statement, she says that he was shot, he was - shot, is the word, all right? - by an unknown object, that's the first part. Then later in the statement, it says that the police told her her son was injured by a "slinger", while playing with other boys.
 Now a "slinger" I would imagine, is a catty, a caterpillar, that's what the statement says. But then she says in the statement, " but I later discovered that he was shot." Now I would just like Mrs Vinger to be absolutely clear. What actually happened? Firstly, was he shot? Was that established in terms of the medical examination, the medical certificate or what the doctor said? Was it a bullet wound?

UNKNOWN: When we asked at the hospital, because he was taken by the police to the hospital, and something like a round iron was removed from his head.

RUSSELL ALLY: An iron was removed from his head? Are there any medical records? Does Mrs Vinger have any medical records?

UNKNOWN: I don't have it with me, they are with the doctors, and other s we gave to Mr Moseneke.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now this statement, the latest statement which was made, that he was hit by another boy.   Is that what you are saying - that whatever it was, was removed from his head - it was another boy? Because in your statement you say that's what the police said to you, that the police told you  that the boys were playing and that it was another boy who did this to your son. But then you also say that you later discovered that he was actually shot by the police, that you, in other words, you seem to be saying to us, you didn't believe the story of the police, that you thought the police were lying to you to cover up what they had done. Now what is your actual recollection of these events? Did you believe the story that it was another boy, or do you believe the story that it was the police?

UNKNOWN: I heard that when I was at work they were unrest in the township and then I found him in this hospital, when I came back from work.

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay, thank you very much.   I think we will have to follow up on those things.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Vinger, I just want to add one question, and that is about the family. Are you married?

UNKNOWN: No, I'm not married.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there other children, or is Ronal the only child?

UNKNOWN: I have two children.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Vinger, thank you for coming to us about the worst thing that can happen to a parent, when something happens to the child, and all of us who are parents, really feel with you and for you. I read in your statement that you said it was through prayer to God that you were able to cope all these years.
 We do hope that the Lord will carry you through these difficult years. We have taken note of your requests and we will take it to the Truth Commission and Ronal, I do hope that the second time in Std 4 will be the last time, that next year this time you will be a pupil in Std 5.
 Thank you for coming and I hope it goes well with you. Thank you.