Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

KHOZA MGOJO: So you are trying to tell me that you have got seven children.  You say the other one is married.  Is he working?

WITNESS:   No, he is not working.

KHOZA MGOJO: Up to what level did he study?

WITNESS:   No, he just finished standard 10.

KHOZA MGOJO: So it means that three of them have passed standard 10.

WITNESS:   Yes, but I couldn't send them to university or college.

KHOZA MGOJO: The one who is working in Durban, up to how far did he study?

WITNESS:   He dropped out while he was doing standard eight after the death of his father.  His uncle helped him to find a job so that he can support the family.

KHOZA MGOJO: You are staying at Mpophomeni.

WITNESS:   That is true.

KHOZA MGOJO: How long have you been staying there?

WITNESS:   This is our sixth year.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where were you staying before?

WITNESS:   We used to stay at the farms.

KHOZA MGOJO: Under which chief?

WITNESS:   Under Chief Nkonjwane Zuma.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible) ... leave the farms and come to where you are staying at the moment?

WITNESS:   We just moved to Mpophomeni because my husband was killed.

KHOZA MGOJO: Can you tell me what happened on February 19?

WITNESS:  Sorry, it was on the 5th.  I was not at home because we were harassed by the Inkatha people.  We were followers of UDF.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said you were members of UDF.  It was on the 5th of which month?

WITNESS:   It was January 1990 ... (inaudible) ... to see my children since they were no longer staying at home.  They were running away because of the violence.  They were staying at a place called Nxane.  They were staying with their aunt.  I went to visit them.  I was going to give them some food.  When I arrived there I slept there.  One day, I remember it was Friday in the evening, I left my husband at home to guard the family.  One of his friends came to help him to get the livestock into the kraal.  It was about seven.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was the name of his friend?

WITNESS:   It was one gentleman by the surname of Shelembe, but I can't remember his name. Where is he staying?   ---   He is staying just somewhere next to our place.

KHOZA MGOJO: You may continue.

WITNESS:   He helped him to get the livestock into the kraal, and Mr Shelembe's children came to tell them that the Inkatha have organised a meeting for that evening, and that they should come to the meeting.  My husband accompanied Mr Shelembe to the meeting.  My husband went there only to hear what was going on.

KHOZA MGOJO: Your husband and Mr Shelembe, were they Inkatha members?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Yes, that's correct.

KHOZA MGOJO: When they arrived at the meeting they were given some orders that when it's the time of war they must distinguish between the Comrades and the IFP people.  My husband's brother had a shop, and they were complaining that my husband's brother was a Comrade, and they were saying to him, "If you are an Inkatha you will have to go and kill your brother."

KHOZA MGOJO: They were saying to your husband that he has to go and kill his brother because he was a Comrade?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.  Yes, he was a Comrade.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was his name?

WITNESS:   His name was Henry Kunene.  My husband refused to go and kill his brother, and he had to leave the meeting at that time.  At that time they decided that they should kill him.  Some of the elderly people said, "No, we mustn't kill him," and then they left him alone.  He slept that night.

KHOZA MGOJO: Before you can continue, in the IFP meeting were there some people wearing some red bands?  Who was the chairperson of the meeting?  Do you still remember?

WITNESS:  I wasn't there, so I don't know anything about it.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are there some people who were present at the meeting whom you do know?

WITNESS:   Do you mean our neighbours?  The only person that I know was Shelembe.

KHOZA MGOJO: Which it means that the people who said your husband mustn't be killed were people like Mr Shelembe.

WITNESS:   Yes, these were the elder ones, but the young ones they devised a plan to find him by the next day.  It was the next day at night.

KHOZA MGOJO: Can you tell us what happened at January 1990.

WITNESS:  It was at night and we were asleep, and they came and knocked at the door.  My husband was asleep at that time as he was from work, he was tired.  I didn't even wake him up when I heard the knocks.  They knocked for a long period.  They didn't identify themselves and they stopped knocking.  And my husband coughed.  They started to knock again when they hear his cough, and they were telling him that we have to go to the camp.  He didn't say anything, he just woke up.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was this the second camp?  Where was this camp?

WITNESS:   Yes, this is the same camp that they did visit the previous day.  He woke up, he dressed and took his shields, and he took the band which he was wearing the previous day and he went away.  When he get out the door he realised that it was cold and he came back and asked for a hat.

KHOZA MGOJO: When they go to the camp did they used to take some shields?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: You can continue.

WITNESS:   I told him where the hat was.  He took it and went off.  They were gone for the whole night.  Early in the morning I woke up and looked around, and I decided to go to visit my neighbours about this camp.  This was Mrs Mamphule Majosi, my neighbour, and I asked her, "Where is your husband?"  She said, "He is around."

KHOZA MGOJO: What was her husband's name?

WITNESS:   I don't remember, but I think her surname is Majosi.  She said, "My husband didn't go to the camp."  When I told her that my husband went to the camp she was surprised.  I heard one woman shouting.  These were ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you remember the name of the lady you are talking about, the lady who shouted?

WITNESS:   She is Mathabethe Ndlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is she Mathombi?

WITNESS:   No, Mathombi is the lady who told me about the death of a person.  We were preparing to leave and we meet the lady by the name of Mathombi.  She said to me, "Auntie, there is someone who died on the way.  Can you come to see the body?"  And I went with Mathabethe and then we went to the direction of the body.  And we found the body at the back yard of the house, and I discovered that that was my husband.  They chopped him.

KHOZA MGOJO: They chopped him.  Which parts of the body were chopped?

WITNESS:   He was chopped all over the body.

KHOZA MGOJO: Please take your time.  I know it's painful.  (Pause)  So you want to tell us that when you discovered the body you were with Mathabethe Ndlovu, and what happened from that moment?

WITNESS:   I just collapsed and I started crying.

KHOZA MGOJO: Have you ever reported the matter to the police?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Mathabethe went to tell her brothers.

KHOZA MGOJO: Which brother?  The one with a shop?

WITNESS:   Yes.  These are the people who informed the police about the matter.  The police came.   Which police?   ---   These were police from Howick.

KHOZA MGOJO: When the police arrived what did they say?  Did they take a statement?

WITNESS:   Yes, they took a statement.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you remember the names of the police?

WITNESS:   I can't remember them.

KHOZA MGOJO: Not even a single one?

WITNESS:   Yes, I can't remember them.  I couldn't see anything because I was confused at that time.

KHOZA MGOJO: This Mathabethe Ndlovu who helped you, as you told us that she was busy packing to run away from the place, why was she planning to run away?

WITNESS:   She was running because they said her son was a Comrade.

KHOZA MGOJO: To which political organisation did she belong, this Mathabethe?

WITNESS:   She were together with us.  We were all IFP members.

KHOZA MGOJO: Since your husband was a member of the IFP, after his death did it happen that some of the members of the IFP come to your place to comfort you?