Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-20

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: As far as I know, there is usually an annual conference and then an annual congress.
	There is a national conference in July.

MR STRYDOM: Does that take place every year?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Yes, every year in July, there is a conference.

MR STRYDOM: After the Boipatong attack, that is now the July after the 17th of June 1992, did you attend such a rally in kwaZulu-Natal at Ulundi?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Unfortunately at that time, I was in prison, so I was not able to attend.  I was in prison from the 30th of June until December of that year.

MR STRYDOM: To turn to the attack itself, it is common cause that the attack took place on the 17th of June 1992.
	When did you for the first time, become aware that there was going to be such an attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: This was a matter that we had discussed before, because of the fact that the ANC had been attacking us.  We discussed that we should launch a revenge attack because of what the ANC was doing to our members.

MR STRYDOM: I want to enquire about approximate date when you became aware that such a possibility existed that there would be an attack.

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Although I cannot recall the specific meeting at which this matter was discussed, because the minute book may have been confiscated by the police, but there was a meeting where we discussed this matter.
	It could have been two weeks or even a week before the actual attack took place.

MR STRYDOM: During that meeting, was it already decided exactly when the attack would be launched?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: It was not decided.  I am sure there was a reason why this could not be done.

MR STRYDOM: At this meeting prior to the attack, were you in favour of the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: I was in favour of the attack, because of the situation, the difficulties that we were experiencing.  Even though this was against IFP policy, the attacks that we were experiencing, were really difficult on us.

MR STRYDOM: Who would have been responsible to make the final decision about the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: It was Mr Mkhize, the Induna, who was responsible at the hostel.

MR STRYDOM: When did you establish that the attack was going to take place on the 17th of June, when did you get the date of the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: As I have already mentioned, the date had not been decided upon before.  I heard the alarm going off on the day of the 17th.  That was when we took the decision that we were going to go out and launch the attack.

MR STRYDOM: In your statement you say that you did not go with the other people to attack Boipatong, is that correct?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Did you stay behind at the hostel?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: In the light of the fact that you were in favour of the attack, why did you not join the other attackers that went to Boipatong?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: On that day, I was not feeling well.  I was developing a cold.  Therefore my state of health was not perfect, that was the reason why I could not join the other people when they went out to attack.

MR STRYDOM: Do you have the decease called asthma?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Will the question please be repeated?

MR STRYDOM: I want to enquire about his health, about a decease called asthma, if he has got that decease?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: No, it is just a chest problem, not asthma.

MR STRYDOM: If you were not feeling ill on that particular day of the attack, would you have joined the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: On that night when the alarm was sounded, did you go to the stadium, or did you stay in your room?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: I did not go, I remained in my room.  I was even afraid of going outside, to avoid being exposed to the temperature outside.

MR STRYDOM: When the people returned from Boipatong, did you see them?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Unfortunately I had fallen asleep, but I did hear Mr Khanyile coming in, because we share the same room.

MR STRYDOM: When did you establish some further detail about the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: I only heard the following morning information to the effect that the attack had been launched, but I must indicate that I only managed to gather more information from the news bulletins because I did not have time to discuss with those who had launched the attack.  I went to town to buy some few things and I came back.

MR STRYDOM: After the attack, did Mr Themba Khoza come to the hostel?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: As far as I know, I saw him on a Friday and he was in the company of police.  The white men was - there was a white man who was in charge of the police.  They all came together.

MR STRYDOM: Did you at any stage hear Mr Khoza saying that loot that came from, and other property that came from Boipatong, should be burnt?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: No.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know Mr Vanana Zulu?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Yes, I know the Prince.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know if he was in the hostel on the 17th of June 1992?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: No, he was not at the hostel on that day.  He had gone home to Natal.  I think the attack was launched two or so days, after he had left.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Victor Mthembu, you already testified was your vice-Chairman on your committee.  He testified here that he saw you in Boipatong, what do you say about that?  That is on the night of the attack?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: He was making a mistake, he assumed that because I was one of the leaders, I must have been present.  That is a mistake.

MR STRYDOM: Were you aware of any hitsquads that were operating from the kwaMadala hostel under the leadership of Victor Keswa?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: I have no information about the hitsquads, I know nothing about that.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know that a certain amount of people, or what do you say about the allegation that a certain amount of people came from Umsinga just prior to the attack, to assist in the attack on Boipatong?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: There were no men, there was no contingent from Umsinga.  There was no such a group of people.  I spent a lot of time here, working in the Vaal.  There was a lot of violence going on.
	The one group of people from Umsinga, are the ones who came to Johannesburg with us, to work.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there people from Umsinga who were resident at the hostel, apart from you?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: Yes, there were, but there were not more than 10.

CHAIRPERSON: Keswa, where did he come from?  Is that the same person as Keswa?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: That is the same person.

CHAIRPERSON: You say he came from where?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: As far as I know, he is from Zone 7.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where his original home was?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: I do not know where he originates from, but I know him from the location, the township.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he associate himself with the people who came from Umsinga?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: No.

MR STRYDOM: Whilst we are referring to Victor Keswa, according to your knowledge, was he in the hostel on the 17th of June 1992?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: As far as I know, Mr Keswa was in prison.  He had been arrested a few days before.

MR STRYDOM: The name Rubin, which would be a reference to Tebogo Rubin Magubane, was he from Umsinga?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: According to my knowledge, he is from Johannesburg, either from Tshiawelo or Masilela, but he is not from kwaZulu-Natal.

MR STRYDOM: And Lucky Stikenawu, was he from Umsinga?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: He is from Johannesburg, not kwaZulu Natal.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know a person by the name of Themba Kubeka?  Was he from Umsinga?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: No.  The Themba Kubeka I know, also comes from Johannesburg.  His home was at Small Farms.

MR STRYDOM: Sipho Thomas Lukhozi, is he a person from Umsinga?

MQAMBELENI BUTHELEZI: With reference to Sipho, I also know him to be from Johannesburg.