Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR DUKADA: Right Mr Shabalala I just want to take you to page 77 of the bundle. The third sentence from the bottom reads as follows
"We held a braai and drank to celebrate the success."
Do you understand that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: We did have a braai at Barkley.

MR DUKADA: You had a braai and drinks to celebrate the success. The success means the killing of Batandwa Ndondo. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I can say so yes.

MR DUKADA: And Mr Dandala was also present when you were celebrating?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I cannot remember any longer whether they had left already or not. It was in the afternoon but I do not remember well now I don't know whether they were still around or had left already.

MR DUKADA: No Mr Shabalala this is very important. Please can you think whether Mr Dandala was there when you were drinking?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I cannot tell but I don't know as to whether he was still around or not. I do know that their boss, the white man was still around. That is the person I can remember.  They used to go and come back and so on. But I don't think they were still there. I do not remember as to whether they were still there. I don't know. I don't remember.

MR DUKADA: Mr Shabalala surely it was very unusual for other people like policemen to celebrate the death of another human being. Do you agree with me?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: Did you enquire from the policeman why were you celebrating, the reason for the killing of Batandwa Ndondo?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I did not ask.

MR DUKADA: Did you not find it necessary to find out from your colleagues why now there is a braai for the killing of Batandwa Ndondo?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As our leaders it became apparent that they did not see it as a mistake to them that is.

MR DUKADA: I am not asking you that. I am asking you during the course of your drinking and enjoying the meat did you ask why Ndondo was killed?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I did not ask.

MR DUKADA: Now Mr Shabalala surely you must know. If you really want amnesty in this Committee you must know why Ndondo was killed. You were given R500, you were congratulated, you were also having a braai and drinking. It is unusual. You must tell the Committee why Ndondo was killed. Please tell us?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I can say Ndondo was the wanted person here in Transkei as we had been given the authorisation that we must go to Nxala he was the wanted person. It seems he was a dangerous person to the government as far as we were told. He was then found. Unfortunately he was killed.

MR DUKADA: Yes I know about that. You have already explained that. But what I want to find out from you; do you agree with me that on your very visit to Nxala on the 24th of September 1985 it had already been agreed that Ndondo should be killed?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I did not know that he had to be killed. I did not know.

MR DUKADA: But when you were having the braai were you surprised that you were congratulated and you had, it was a question of having meat and a celebration? Were you surprised by that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I was surprised.

MR DUKADA: You see in your evidence you have already indicated that when you arrived at Barkley East from Vlakplaas you planned the Ndondo matter. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we did talk at length about it as the person was wanted.

MR DUKADA: Exactly Mr Shabalala please I am not trying to intimidate you at all. You need amnesty here. I just want to find out from you what was discussed about Ndondo? Because Ndondo could have been arrested by any policeman at Nxala in the security branch there. Please tell the Committee what was discussed at Barkley East about Ndondo?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: At Barkley East when we were told, the way we were told by the commanding officer of the Dandala group he told us that Ndondo was a dangerous person who is connecting with terrorists here in Transkei. Who is a dangerous person and others who had fought with the police. I don't know where it was. Those people had to be found. We were then showed his photograph and given direction where we could find him. It was Dandala who told us that we had to go to Nxala. We then went to Nxala. When we left it was not said that this is the only one who is supposed to be found. There were others, a list of others who too were wanted.

MR DUKADA: But now Mr Shabalala you are digressing to the point I am developing. On the very same day, 24th September after you had killed Batandwa you went back to Elliot and held a braai. You never looked for any other ANC or PAC operatives. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The following month we proceeded and continued our work.

MR DUKADA: No Sir I am just talking about the 24th of September 1985. You have just said that on the day in question you were also looking for other terrorists. But now in your very same evidence you have indicated that after you killed Batandwa you went to Elliot and held a braai and celebrated.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: And so on that day it was only Batandwa who was to be dealt with?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It was not he alone who was supposed to be dealt with.

MR DUKADA: No but my question is that on that day it was only Batandwa who was dealt with?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that was the only work that we did on that day.

MR DUKADA: Now where you are seated right now and you are applying for amnesty in retrospect is it not clear to you now that the death of Batandwa was premeditated, was pre-planned?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That it was planned no I would not know but I only heard as I had just explained it could be that our superiors had done such planning but we were not told that way.

MR DUKADA: Please Mr Shabalala you were not a human instrument you know. You are a trained former ANC cadre, you were co-opted in the South African police force. You know very well before you go to any operation you have to be briefed and told by your superiors what should happen. You were engaged in an extremely dangerous mission. That is to arrest a deadly terrorist according to you. Please tell the Committee what was discussed about Ndondo at Barkley East?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you mean in addition to what he has told us? Because we've asked him the question before and he has told us what was discussed.

MR DUKADA: Sorry Mr Chairman I am not satisfied with the answer furnished by the witness. I am insisting. I know that I am repeating the question but (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think if there is any matter that you believe he has omitted perhaps you should put it to him or whether canvas from him whether is that all. Mr Shabalala you have told us what you were told of and concerning the deceased at Barkley East? Namely that there were certain trained terrorists who were the enemies of the government presumably the government of the Transkei who were wanted by the government here and that these persons had to be captured right. Now what counsel wants to find out is in addition to that was anything discussed of and concerning the deceased?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No whatever else that may have been discussed was that we must go on and search for the person.

MR DUKADA: Thank you Mr Chairman. Now when you say when you arrived at Barkley East you met a white man together with Dandala?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: (... no English translation)

MR DUKADA: Sorry Mr Shabalala I dismiss that. When you were at Barkley East not Elliot sorry, you met the white person and Dandala from the Transkeian police. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: When we got to Barkley East we met this white man and Dandala was present.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Dandala present?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Dandala I think we split with him at Elliot if I am not mistaken.