Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-18

CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon everyone.   Mr Prior, do you think you could just indicate for the record, what are the problems in this matter?

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, today being the 18th of January 1999, for the further continuance of the Boipatong amnesty hearings, the delay has been occasioned by the applicants not being present.
	I understand that three or four that were coming from prison, had not been brought to the hearing.  I have made numerous enquiries and no one seems to know precisely what the position is.  
	The jails, or the prisons, acknowledge that they received proper notice of the hearing, but we are busy investigating why these people are not here.  The names are Magubane, Mkwanazi, if I may just be assisted with the other two, Mazibuko and is it Mbele.
	I understand that some of the other applicants who are not in prison, are also not present, bar Mr Mkhize and Mr Buthelezi are present here today, as well as Mr Kubeka.
	Mr Chairman, we were anticipating them arriving in order that the evidence could be led in sequence and the evidence that may impact of them, be heard in their presence, rather than hearing it in their absence, which may have created certain problems.  But to date there is no, I can't give you any firm explanation as to why those people are not here.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Prior.  Mr Strydom, you appear on behalf of Messrs Magubane, Mkwanazi and Mbele, do you?

MR STRYDOM: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you appear in respect of all four, I gather?

MR STRYDOM: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any reason why these applicants were not here at ten o'clock this morning?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, all I can say is that during the course of last week, my Instructing Attorney, had a telephone conversation with a person we believe is responsible to get the people from prison, and he said that notices were served and we assumed that everything had been done properly.
	Only to see this morning that the people did not arrive, so I cannot really take it any further than that.

CHAIRPERSON: I gather that there are also the applicants who are not in prison, but who are not here.  What are the names of those applicants?

MR STRYDOM: I will go according to the list on the front page of the documents handed to us.  Moses Mthembu, Sipho Buthelezi is not here;  Petrus Mdiniso is not here; Molokseni Mkhize is not here; Paulos Mbatha is not here.

CHAIRPERSON: Just slow down.  You said Petrus Mdiniso?

MR STRYDOM: Petrus Mdiniso.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, and who else?

MR STRYDOM: Mxoliseni Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that number 13?

MR STRYDOM: Yes Chairperson, and then the next one Paulos Mbatha and Richard Dlamini.

CHAIRPERSON: Paulos Mcikeleni Mbatha, I have his name crossed out here?

MR STRYDOM: He was the person that was ill in Natal, in kwaZulu Natal but on the previous occasion, he came to the hearing.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh he did, okay.  Okay, now what is the explanation for these applicants not to be here?

MR STRYDOM: The only information that I have, is what I got from the other applicants.  Apparently the other applicants, all these applicants that aren't here today, were not certain about the venue.
	On the previous occasion the matter was postponed to this date, but at that stage, it was not certain which venue would be the place where the Committee would sit.
	I can also inform the Committee that my Attorney had a discussion last week with Mr Tshabangu, and he acts as the contact person between us and the other applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Mlupeki Tshabangu, number 10?

MR STRYDOM: That is indeed so, and he was informed that the hearing would resume and would take place at the same venue again.
	I don't know if he informed all the other applicants, that I can't tell you Chairperson.
	What I will try to do is to try to get hold of these people, I will drive to kwaMaziza, not kwaMaziza Khayelitsha hostel and just tell them and remind them that they must be here tomorrow.

CHAIRPERSON: The notice advising the applicants of the date and the venue, do we know to whom that notice was addressed?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I have notices regarding the applicants in prison.   The ones who weren't in prison, I don't think notices were sent out because of the adjournment, the adjournment was announced.

CHAIRPERSON: But was the date, because as I recall the record, there was no specific date was there, that was ...

ADV PRIOR: My recollection is that in chambers, we certainly agreed that it would be the date, with the legal representatives.  I am not too clear whether that was said in open hearing, but my understanding was that the applicants who were present and who were not in prison, heard the date.

CHAIRPERSON: The record indicates that what I said on the last day of the sitting, was that a date for the next sitting of this Committee, will be announced in due course.
	You see, the reason why I am asking this question, is I want to find out from Mr Strydom whether, is there any reason why the applications by those applicants who are not here today, who are aware of the date today, why their applications should not be struck off role.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I would have to take instructions from these people, they must give me explanations why they aren't here today.  At this stage unfortunately, I can only speculate and if such a step is envisaged, I obviously will have to take instructions and then inform the Committee properly what the reasons are.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, indeed.  I think you would be well advised to take instructions from these applicants as to why they were not here if indeed they were notified of the date of the hearing, because otherwise, their applications ought to be struck off the role, because I think if they did receive notification and if they are not here deliberately, there is no reason why their applications should remain before this Committee.
	We've got a letter here, dated the 27th of October 1998, written by Adv Prior to the legal representatives in which they were advised that the hearings would commence on the 18th of January.  Did all the legal representatives of the applicants receive that letter?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, do you refer to the letter that I have in front of me, yes, because I've seen another document also dated the 27th of October?  Personally I haven't seen this letter, but I was aware of it.

MS PRETORIUS: Chairperson, if I may be of assistance, that is Mr Da Silva's Attorney, Instructing Attorney.  Mr Da Silva did not receive this letter either, I received it, I gave it to him last week with the time.