Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: At the meeting it was concerning the situation in the community which was tense.  The situation was tense between the ANC and the Black Cats and he told me that my purpose for being here is to work and he's going to give all the necessary tools that I'm supposed to use in my work.

MR WILLS: And what do you mean by work and what tools are you referring to?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: The work I'm referring to, the killing of the ANC members.  When I refer to tools, I mean firearms, bombs.

MR WILLS: And who was going to direct your operations, if anybody?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Noah.

MR WILLS: And how did you know this?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I arrived at his place and I called Madlanduna, and Madlanduna told me that, "You are coming to work with this gentleman and you have to take instruction from him and do whatever he tells you", and from there I regarded him as my commander.

MR WILLS: Madlanduna is obviously Daluxolo Luthuli?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you've indicated that you were concerned about the police.  Was anything discussed in this regard?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: May you please repeat your question?

MR WILLS: You've indicated that you were concerned about the police.  Was anything discussed in this meeting concerning the police?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, we discussed a few things about police.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the Committee?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: After Noah had told me as a chairperson of the meeting, I asked them their relationship with the police, them as in the IFP organisation.  He said I shouldn't worry because all the police are in our side, meaning Inkatha, and he also gave me an example of a certain gentleman who was a CID by the name of Roux Nkosi, also known as Ngwenya, and he said those are the people he's working closely with and other policemen.

MR WILLS: Yes.  You've mentioned this person Roux Ngwenya in your affidavit, at the bottom of paragraph fifty two (52).  This person you now refer to as Roux Nkosi is the same person, is that right?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Then just to clear up a correction.  In paragraph three (3) you refer to a person by the name of Charles.  Is that person actually meant to be China?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it was intended to mean China.

MR WILLS: Now, what did China do?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: China was a member of the Black Cats.  He was fetched by Noah after the meeting and he was introduced to me as the young man who knows the place, because when I finished the work I have to leave the area.  In the leadership within this area China was the one who knew all these people I'm mentioning and also he knew the roads as to how I was going to manoeuvre and run away after the killings, because I didn't know any of this area and I don't have relatives here.

MR WILLS: And how did you get weapons to do your work?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I got them from Noah.

MR WILLS: And what did he give you?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: First he gave me his nine short while I was still doing reconnaissance.

CHAIRPERSON: By a nine short, you mean a 9mm pistol?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, that's correct, Chairperson.  And after starting - when I have to start to work I got an AK47 and also a 3.8 revolver.

MR WILLS: You mentioned reconnaissance.  What do you mean by that?  Can you explain what happened or what you meant by that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I'm referring to a situation where I have to go out and investigate or look as to the people I'm going to attack, where they stay, when they wake up, when do they switch off their lights.  My first task was to deal with the leadership of the ANC.  I started with them, but it was difficult, therefore I started attacking the youth.  So, I have to know what kind of a car they use, when they come back home, when do they get out of their homes.  For example, I have to wait for Malayisha and he didn't come to his place, he was using a white bakkie.  I used to go there and look for him and I couldn't find him.  And some other times I went to attack him.  Unfortunately someone was driving his car.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now, you've indicated earlier that you were new to the area and you knew nothing about Ermelo.  So, obviously somebody had to be involved in this process of educating you in this regard.  Is that so, and if so, give details?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: May you repeat your question?

MR WILLS: You've said that you didn't know Ermelo.  It was your first time of coming to Ermelo.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it's correct.

MR WILLS: So, you wouldn't have known where the leadership of the UDF lived and what cars they drove.  So, how did you find that out?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I got the information from China who was a member of the Black Cats.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now, you submitted or you signed this affidavit.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: In December 1996.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Subsequent to that you've been tried in respect of certain offences in Ermelo, and in respect of which - or those offences appear in these documents, is that correct?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: You've also assisted a number of policemen who have come to see you at Westville Prison and in fact taken you out of the prison in order to assist them in their investigations of other persons who have been involved in crimes in this area, is that correct?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, I want you to tell me, if there were any other policemen who, as a result of those subsequent investigations, you can remember assisted you in your operations in the Ermelo area?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.  There are some police I still remember.  For example, Von Zweel, Maree, Botha.

MR WILLS: And where were these people stationed?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Here in Ermelo.  And also Meyer, he was in charge of the special constable at the time.

MR WILLS: Also in Ermelo?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Do you know the units within the police that these persons were attached to?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.  Roux was in the CID Unit.  Von Zweel was in the Special Branch, if I'm not making a mistake.  However, our agreement was that they were to help me and they told us that they are on our side and they are going to help us.  I was afraid of being arrested and they said we won't be arrested.

MR WILLS: Now, who told you this?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: The chairman of the IFP in Ermelo, Noah.

MR WILLS: And did you ever see any of these policemen helping you?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Truly all the people were helping me about empty cartridges and the killing of people.  I accepted if anything happened, someone was killed and I will accept that it happened and I know it, and then it was accepted no investigation would take place.

MR WILLS: I turn now to paragraph fifty four (54) which you cite here as being your first operation in Ermelo during 1990.  Do you see that that's the attack on UDF members at Isikhumplazi.  Can you tell the Committee what happened there?