Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-09-09

CHAIRPERSON: All right.  You say that one of the survivors are present and would like to give evidence.

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Let him come forward.
	What are your full names?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: I am Sihlanu, surname Mtamzeli.  Mtamzeli, that is the surname.

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Do sit down.  Yes please, lead him.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you sir.  Mr Mtamzeli, is it correct that during December 1992 you were employed by Springbok Security Company?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

MR MAPOMA: Is it correct that on the 5th of December 1992, you were stationed at Khayelitsha train station as a Security Guard there?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Yes, that is correct.

MR MAPOMA: Do you recall the incident that took place on that day, on that night?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Yes, I recall.  I can recall.

MR MAPOMA: How many were you?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: There were six of us.

MR MAPOMA: Were you all employees of Springbok Security Company?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is this in Khayelitsha?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: At the station at Khayelitsha, we were at the guard room there which we used to stay at.

CHAIRPERSON: I can't hear what the Interpreter is saying.

INTERPRETER: At Khayelitsha station.

CHAIRPERSON: At what station?

INTERPRETER: Khayelitsha.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Railway station is it?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Would you please describe to the Committee how the incident took place?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: I can.

MR MAPOMA: Carry on.

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: That night, I can only estimate that it was about two o'clock, an Inspector visited us as is usual.  When he was there, he signed the book that is ...

CHAIRPERSON: Can the Interpreter please speak a bit louder?

INTERPRETER: All right sir.

CHAIRPERSON: (We have difficulty hearing the Interpreter, because he is talking too softly.

INTERPRETER: I beg your pardon sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.  You were visited by an Inspector and then what happened?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: What happened when the Inspector left, we then accompanied him, because he had parked his bakkie outside.
	When we returned to our guard room, we saw someone from Elita Park, crossing the train lines, going towards Elita Park.  We took this person, arrested kind of, took him to the guard room, because our duty was to check people who crossed that station, those lines there.

CHAIRPERSON: Please talk in such a way that we have a chance to write down what you are saying, so don't talk too fast, and give the Interpreter a chance to interpret to us what you are saying.  Do you understand?
	All right, now after the Inspector left, what happened?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: After the Inspector had left, we saw this person coming from Elita Park.  We took this person to that guard room.  We questioned him there as to why he was there at that time.
	Whilst this was going on, I myself and the deceased and the third person, were sitting on the desk that we used to write on.  I was next to the door and the deceased inside and the other one, more inside.  I left my sitting position and went to a corner, to sit at a corner.
	Not two minutes passed after I had left that position to my corner, and gunfire erupted.  I ducked and the other two also went down too, over my body.  We were screaming at that time, because we were being shot at.  We then discovered that the third one was only screaming because he had been hit.
	The shots took some time I think.  When they stopped, we tried to ensure that we could leave that place.  When we were outside, we saw nobody.  We tried to ask to go to Site B Police station and the other four ...

CHAIRPERSON: I think that before you go about going to Site B Police station, tell us about the names of the people who were with you in the room, and the name of the person who was struck.

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Unfortunately sir, I would not be able to properly and be certainly able to identify them.  There was Ntshica, his surname, the deceased was Mbambo, I do not know his name, and then Jackson and Jerry.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have a statement from this witness?

MR MAPOMA: No, I don't have his statement Chairperson, but for the record, I do have the names of the Security Guards who were there.  I have got a list of them with me.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have the names of the people who were injured?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And apparently somebody was deceased as well?

MR MAPOMA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have those names?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, I've got those names.

CHAIRPERSON: Well now, can we have those names before he proceeds with the rest of his story?

MR MAPOMA: Yes sir.  The deceased person's name was Jan Mbambo.

CHAIRPERSON: Hold it.  Mbambo?

MR MAPOMA: I am sorry sir, it is Mbambo.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR MAPOMA: And then the survivors are Cosmos Bhekumuzi, then the next is Jackson Mjakiya.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell that surname?

MR MAPOMA: It is Mjakiya.  Then the next one is Sandisile Ntshica.  The next one is the witness, his name is Sihlanu Mtamzeli.

CHAIRPERSON: That is all?

MR MAPOMA: That is all Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mtamzeli, were you injured?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: No I was not hit, not injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Besides Mr Mbambo, was anybody else hurt?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were those?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: It is the one I cannot identify clearly, but I know that Jackson, Ntshica and Jerry were not hit.  I cannot remember the one who was hit in his hand.

CHAIRPERSON: This happened on the premises of the railway station, is that right?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on, is there anything else you wish to say?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: What I can say is that after we had sent those people to the Police station, Police took some time to come, to the extent that when they came, the deceased had already passed away.
	We then went with the Police to the Police station, all of us and the deceased, to give a statement as to what happened.  After that, nothing happened, we were only called whilst I was working for Springbok in 1994 and then questioned about what we had explained.
	We then gave the same story.  After that, nothing was heard about the case until I got a letter indicating that those who had shot at us, are now requesting amnesty and that we are invited to come and appear.

DR TSOTSI: Mr Mtamzeli, I understand that when the shooting began, you were busy questioning somebody?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

DR TSOTSI: Who was this person?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: It is a person we did not know because whilst we were in the process of questioning him, the shots rang out and we then could not look after him, or concentrate on him.

DR TSOTSI: What happened to him?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: After the shooting, we left and he too left and he took his own way, we do not know where he left to.

CHAIRPERSON: The room that you had, did it have a door?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the door closed at that time?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the shots come through the door?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And were there any shots from anywhere else apart from the door?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: No.  It was only through the door.

CHAIRPERSON: Where there any white people in the room at the time?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: No, only black people.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you ever learnt why this shooting took place?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: No.  I do not know why we were shot at.

DR TSOTSI: Were you wearing any uniform?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Correct.

DR TSOTSI: What sort of uniform was it?

SIHLANU MTAMZELI: Our uniform was very similar to that of the Police, it was blue.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Arendse, any questions that you wish to put to this witness?