Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-11

MR WILLS: Yes, sorry, I'm referring specifically to the KwaZulu Police at this stage.  The KwaZulu Police authorities would encourage you to perform these unlawful acts, is that correct?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is like that.

MR WILLS: Can you name some of the persons in the police station who performed this role of encouragement to you?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, Jablani Makatini among others.

MR WILLS: Can you remember any of the others?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: No, I can't quite remember, but they were there.  I can't quite remember their names, who they were.

MR WILLS: Now you mentioned the South African Police.  My instructions from Israel Hlongwane are that he personally experienced assistance that was given by certain members of the South African Police whom I believe at the stage were stationed at the Hammarsdale Police Station.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR WILLS: My question is, do you know of any assistance, be that either logistical or moral or whatever, that they South African Police gave to the IFP operatives in the Mpumalanga area over that period?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, there was.  What I remember, there was van Vuuren who was working at Weber Police Station and that one he used to help us.  For instance, if there was someone who was to be arrested at the IFP, he used to come and tell us that there was somebody that was wanted and that person would actually escape and hide.  	If maybe we were running short of bullets or ammunition, he would actually assist that.  There was also the Riot Unit but I can't remember whether it was Unit 8 or Unit 19, one of those units was supporting IFP.  They used to help us with anything, ammunition, and they actually used to lend us guns or at times when they were patrolling they used to tell us where the comrades were and we would just go directly to that area.

MR WILLS: So, the short of your evidence is that there were certain policemen in the South African Police who associated and assisted you with your political operations and your military operations as a member of the IFP, is that correct?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is the truth.

MR WILLS: Now the last aspect I want to touch on Mr Khumalo is this issue of what I think we can quite accurately describe as random shootings.  You refer in your evidence to your job doing patrols and I think you said then that there was a policeman by the name of Makatini who used to drive and then you'd patrol the UDF areas in Mpumalanga and you'd get out and shoot at people, do you recall that?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do remember.

MR WILLS: Now as I understand your evidence, that was part of a general instruction that you had to rid the area of UDF people, is that correct?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it's the truth.

MR WILLS: Now we've also heard evidence about a similar type of activity, and I think you've also heard this in our hearings at Richards Bay in relation to eSikhawini, where random attacks were embarked upon in UDF areas in eSikhawini, do you recall that evidence?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do remember.

MR WILLS: And I take it that this is a similar type of activity that you were embarked upon, as compared with what was happening in eSikhawini?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it's the same thing.

MR WILLS: And that was distinguishable from the specific incidents where a particular person would be named?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it's different from the specific one.

MR WILLS: The last issue is the issue of trying to get out of these operations, what would have occurred, I understand that it would have been very difficult for you to, at certain stages at least, to be able to pull out of these operations because of your special position, your knowledge and your training, is that correct?  What would have occurred if you for example had come back from Caprivi and a month later you'd said: "No, I don't want to do this anymore", and you went on with a normal life at that stage?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: If I leave it would mean that you have to part with your life because you could be killed.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wills.  Mr Ngubane, do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have.
	Mr Khumalo, my understanding is that you cannot be in a position to specify the people that you killed and the property that you destroyed during the random shootings, is that correct?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is the truth.

MR NGUBANE: And are you asking for amnesty in respect of those incidents too, or are you asking for amnesty in respect of the incidents that you can pinpoint and remember at this point?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I ask amnesty for all the things that I've mentioned and that I've listed here on my affidavit.

MR NGUBANE: And the incidents which you have not listed in your "Incidents", if they are brought to your attention and it's established that you perpetrated them, are you not asking for amnesty in respect of those?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I would say the things that I'm referring to, the things that happened about eight, ten years back, some of them I do remember, some of them I don't but if for instance a person is reminding me, that: "Do you remember such an incident"?, I might remember it, yes I know it.  There are things that occurred whereby people died and I wouldn't even point that person and who that person was and who that person was that got injured in that area.

MR NGUBANE: Your killing and destruction of property, was it confined to the Mpumalanga area or did it extend to areas like George Dale and Djongweni?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: No, I've never been to Djongweni and George Dale.

MR NGUBANE: You stayed in Mpumalanga for quite some time, can you tell us for approximately how many years did you stay in Mpumalanga, doing all these acts?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Approximately 11 or 12 months.

MR NGUBANE: So it was for a period or approximately 1 year was it?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it can be almost a year.

MR NGUBANE: During your stay in Mpumalanga, did you manage to know certain comrades by names, the people who were troublesome, UDF people who were troublesome?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: And were they also the targets of your operation?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR NGUBANE: Besides the people involved in the incidents that you have mentioned, I think in Mpumalanga you have mentioned approximately four specific incidents, namely Mabote Shebeen incident, Three Lines incident, the killing of Mrs Xhaba and the attack at Chonco's house, who were the other comrades that you targeted, that you can remember?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I don't get your question quite clearly.  Maybe the people that we were targeting, that we targeted but we did find them, are you trying to say that?

MR NGUBANE: Let's start by the people that you targeted and then you killed or injured, whom you didn't mention in your affidavit and in respect of whom you are asking for amnesty.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: No, I don't have such people, I can't remember such people.

MR NGUBANE: Do you know the area here in Mpumalanga known as eMalangeni where there is a cemetery?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what was that name again?

INTERPRETER: eMalangeni.

MR NGUBANE: It's E-M-A-L-A-N-G-E-N-I.
	I didn't get the answer?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: Did you at any stage participate in the attack of the people that attended a funeral there?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I've never been to the cemetery, eMalangeni, I've never been there.

MR NGUBANE: And did you at any stage work in cohorts with a gentleman known as Banbani, who was the Inkatha member?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I know the person but I've never worked with him.