Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1998-01-28

MR VALLY: The same paragraph, paragraph 3 of your statement, your last sentence
"During my period at the Security Branch, Soweto, my rank was initially that of a lieutenant and on the 1st of July 1988 I was promoted to the rank of Captain which rank I held at the stage that I left the Security Branch, Soweto".
 I just want to get clarity whether between 1989 and 1991 after you had assumed the rank of Captain were you still in Soweto?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That is correct, yes.

MR VALLY: Let us talk about the Soweto Security Branch.  Can you briefly describe the structure of the Soweto Security Branch to us, how many different sections were there, what were they focusing on, who did you report to, what was the command structure.  So firstly let's deal with what different sections operated within the Security Branch in Soweto?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: If I can just sketch it to you very briefly it will be as follows:-  There was a sectional commander.  In this specific case it was Brigadier "Eg" Coetzee, now General Coetzee.  He had a second in command.  There was mainly an investigating unit linked to a Terrorist Tracking Unit.  There was an administrative unit.  There was also a unit which dealt mainly with the handling and recruitment of informers.  There was an information leg as well as a technical section.

MR VALLY: Is that it?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Yes in brief that's all.

MR VALLY: I will deal with them individually, but approximately how many policemen were involved in the Security branch at Soweto at the time that you were there?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: If I have to give an estimation and I hope that I am right then it will be more than a hundred.

MR VALLY: Which unit were you in?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: I was involved with the investigation to  security-related incidents at the Investigating Unit.

MR VALLY: Which you also refer to as the Terrorist Tracking unit?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Yes, that was one unit, but my task was mainly the investigation of security related matters.

MR VALLY: Can you tell us what the initials MID stand for?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Criminal Information Service.

MR VALLY: Was that the section of the Security Branch that you were part of in Soweto?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That is correct.  The name Security Branch was the original name and a few years later the name was changed to the Criminal Information Service, it is one and the same organisation, just with another name.

MR VALLY: Let's stick to the period we are talking about, the period you were in Soweto which you say was from '84 to 1991.  At that point you were in the MID, what you call the Investigative Unit, the Criminal Investigation Section of the Security Branch, would that be correct?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That's correct.

MR VALLY: Now the information unit, what was the role of the information unit?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Mainly the gathering of information regarding security matters.

MR VALLY: Would this include the gathering of information by electronic means, telephone tapping, placing of bugs, what was the difference between that and the recruitment of informers section or the technical branch, what was the difference?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: The technical branch mainly had to do with the tapping apparatus after the necessary approval was gained.  They had to tap telephone conversations, that was the technical side.  I did not hear the first part of the question, can you just repeat that.

MR VALLY: Well the technical branch you say was responsible for telephone tapping would this include bugging?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That's correct.

MR VALLY: Now when you talk about the Information Unit you are calling it now the Intelligence Unit.  Did the information unit also give out information?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: They would have given information to me if it was court orientated.  I was mainly involved with court-orientated investigation and if the information unit had any information that could be of use to me in my court directed investigations then they would have provided me with that information.

MR VALLY: My question is, did the information unit also disseminate information, did they, for example, provide information to any senior officers at police headquarters or any politicians regarding certain activities which were taking place in Soweto?  So in addition to collecting information did they also distribute information, either within the police senior ranks or to the public?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Yes they would definitely have done that.

MR VALLY: And would they have been involved in disinformation campaigns as well?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: I am not aware of the fact that the information leg in Soweto was involved in such activities if there were such, or if such activities would take place then it would have come from Head Office.  As I have said in my statement I am not aware of any Stratcom divisions which were seated in the Soweto Security branch.

MR VALLY: I note what you said about Stratcom divisions, but without using the word Stratcom, was the role that Stratcom later came to play assumed by this information unit of the Security Branch at the time when you were a captain there?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: I am not aware of any such actions which occurred.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of any disinformation which emanated from the Security branch in Soweto?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: From the Security Branch in Soweto any disinformation I can categorically deny, I have no knowledge of that.

MR VALLY: You had also what you called a section which dealt with the recruitment of informers, is that correct?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That's correct, yes.

MR VALLY: This was a section dedicated just to the recruitment and the handling of informers.

ANDRE KRITZINGER: It was not only the recruitment and handling of informers, their task was also more general in that they also dealt with the monitoring of organisations etc.  So they did not only deal with informers, there were also other additional tasks such as the monitoring of organisations as I have already said.

MR VALLY: From what you have told us and the activities you've described of the various units it appears as if there's a fair amount of overlapping that the different units would in fact cooperate on different issues?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Absolutely, yes, there would have been cooperation between different units because that is how the necessary information was exchanged.

MR VALLY: You were a fairly senior officer when you were made captain in 1989, for example, you would have access to a lot of the important information which was passing through the Security branch in Soweto, would you not?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: Yes, that would have been the case that if management felt that if I had the necessary information it would have been brought to my attention.  I also want to state it very pertinently once again that I was purely court orientated and all that I was thus interested in, and it's not as if I worked with  - I was mainly interested in court-orientated cases.

MR VALLY: Would you not as a matter of course, especially since you were an officer, first a lieutenant and then a captain, have regular meetings as a unit focusing on what was happening in Soweto in terms of your responsibility involved within the Security branch, would there not be regular briefings?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: In the mornings it was the practice that we, together with the sectional commander, we had meetings and if important aspects had to be raised then it would have been brought to my attention and I would have been made aware of it.

MR VALLY: So it wasn't a question of whether it's just a case pending or not, there were regular daily briefings which you, as an officer of the Security branch in Soweto, were privy to?

ANDRE KRITZINGER: That's correct.  I had to deal with these meetings on a daily basis.