Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

ABEL MULADY: I took it and get outside with it, there outside in the yard of the deceased, there were tyres and tubes of small cars and tyres for the tractors.  I took a tyre of a small car and poured that petrol on it, which I took it from the house, and then I lit it, I lit that tyre and then I took it and threw it on the body of the deceased.

MR NDOU: So what you are telling the Committee is that you actually participated in the killing of the deceased, is that right?

ADV DE JAGER: I think there is no doubt about that.

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I am saying that.

MR NDOU: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do about the house and how it burnt, you scattered the petrol there in the house?

ABEL MULADY: I understand that by pouring petrol or throwing the tyre on the body of the deceased, that light, that fire which was burning the deceased, could have caught or spread to other rooms, but I didn't see that.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was the deceased when you did that, when you threw the ...

ABEL MULADY: He was inside the house.

MR NDOU: Can you explain to the Committee as to why the deceased was targeted? ... (tape ends) ...

ABEL MULADY: I can, to avoid wasting time for this Committee, many witnesses here who have applied for this amnesty, have already explained a mouthful, what I can explain, will be very few which I can explain.   I agree with what the previous speaker who were applying for amnesty, have mentioned many things which I agreed with.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it Masithulela, do you agree with what he says on the reasons?

MR NDOU: Did you get the question?

ABEL MULADY: Could you please repeat the question?

CHAIRPERSON: You say you agree with the previous speaker on that score, are you talking about Masithulela, John?

ABEL MULADY: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR NDOU: Now, how do you feel now with the victim sitting in front of you, about this whole occurrence?

ABEL MULADY: As the people which I grew up with them, and the people whom I know and as people whom I understand that they are living just like myself, I feel panicking for killing their father or more especially for them to find themselves without a breadwinner at this time.  As such, I feel pain, very painful and I feel to say it, humiliating myself, that I am apologising from them, I am asking them to forgive me, with the mother who is there, now with nobody still assisting her as a husband, I think it is important to have a husband as a woman.  To the children, I am also humiliating myself to find yourself still young, I think some of you are supposed to still be going to school, but I don't know that maybe you are now unable to further your studies because you no longer have your father or a member of your family who is your father, as such I can say that I am apologising for that, for what happened during those days.  I am asking for forgiveness from you.

MR NDOU: I don't wish to take this any further, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NDOU

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I just want certain comments from you regarding the statement that is included in the Bundle, being a statement filed by yourself, I suppose a warning statement.  It is page 9, Mr Chairman.

ADV DE JAGER: That is a transcription of the statement appearing on pages 12, 13, 14 and 15, etc.

MR VAN RENSBURG: That is correct Mr Chairman.  Do you have the statement in front of you, Mr Mulady?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, that is the statement that I took.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Perhaps we can go down about 10 lines from the bottom, where you said
"... on the following morning headed to Mahvunga's kraal where we smashed window panes of a house."
	Do you see that line?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I can see that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: That specific attack on Mr Mahvunga's house, kraal, does that refer to Edward Mahvunga's kraal where we smashed window panes of a house, is that Edward Mahvunga's kraal?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, Edward Mahvunga, it is Edward Mahvunga that is being referred to.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Does that attack refer to the attack that was launched on the 28th of February?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I can link that to the date mentioned before.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And if we go down a little bit, six lines
down, I continue to read from your statement, it says there -
		       "our parents suggested that they be given an          opportunity ...(indistinct) money in order to compensate Mr Mahvunga."
	Does that mean that after the attack on the 28th of February, the parents of the youths made certain moves to compensate for the window panes that you had broken?

ABEL MULADY: Well, I think that is what I am saying that after the incident that took place on the 6th of February, after the late had died, we - well the parents sat down and collected the money to contribute towards the restoration of the house or reparation, repairing the house.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And was the money handed to Mr Edward Mahvunga?

ABEL MULADY: Well, the money that was collected, was sent to the Chief kraal, I am saying the late had already died.

MR VAN RENSBURG: I beg your pardon, I didn't hear that.  Just repeat that answer.

ABEL MULADY: What I am saying that when I made this confession, I was really generalising on the whole case, I was not particularly looking at the dates.  I was referring to the 28th, the 6th to the time when the deceased died.

MR VAN RENSBURG: The question is did, was Mr Edward Mahvunga compensated for the window panes that were broken on the 28th of February?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, there was money that was given out so that, as it was known that there were only children who were left and the deceased had died, there had to be a collection for repair in order to help in the restoration of whatever was destroyed.  That is what I am saying.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Do I understand you correctly, you say there was some sort of compensation, but only after the deceased was killed, not before the 28th, or not after the attack of the 28th?

ABEL MULADY: Let me repeat what I have said and I will also appeal to the people who are asking me that this statement that I took, I said I was generalising all the incidents which took place from the 28th of February to the 6th of April.  Therefore as I was writing the statement, I did not write it on my own, there was an Interpreter or Translator, it could have been an omission or a problem or a mistake because I was saying it in Venda and he was interpreting into English.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Mulady, I am not trying to catch you out, I am not asking you what is in the statement, I am asking you what the real situation was.  Was there compensation to Mr, to the deceased after, or to his family at least after he died?

CHAIRPERSON: What does the family say?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Actually I have no specific instructions on this, perhaps I can ask, thank you.

ADV DE JAGER: After the first attack on his house, on Edward's house?

ABEL MULADY: No.

ADV DE JAGER: Did the parents offer any compensation after the first attack?

ABEL MULADY: No, they didn't offer any compensation of that sort.

ADV DE JAGER: Because in your statement you wrote, or it is written down here that money was offered but he refused the offer.  He couldn't have refused it after he had died, unless he was a real witch?

ABEL MULADY: That is why I am saying I was just making a confession between myself and the person who was interpreting, to the third person.  It could have been that the person who was interpreting, was not well versed, and maybe, well as I know, he speaks one of the African official languages, it was being taken into another language.  There might have been one confusion in the interpreting, as I was giving the confession and he was writing.