Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-13

SISI KHAMPEPE: You don't understand my question.  All I want to know is whether it would have mattered at all whether Kay was a war-lord or not if you had received instructions from Mr Lethal, who we understand was your commander as a Caprivi an.  Do you understand the gist of my question?

MR DLAMINI: Yes I do understand your question.  No, I wouldn't have helped him if I knew that he was a taxi war-lord.  I wouldn't dare help him because the taxi war-lord pays, so I wasn't paid for doing all the acts by the taxi owners, I was just working as an IFP member.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So you are saying that you would have defied a direct instruction form your commandeering chief if you had known that you were now being ordered to assist as person who was a taxi lord?

MR DLAMINI: Chair, even the commander - if the commander says something that is not in line with you, you can actually tell this person that "no I can't do this, you can even kill me", if I realise that this is not in line with my organisation.  Why would you agree to do it.  I didn't see the reason, I wouldn't agree if a person is leading me to such a thing, that it's not in line with my organisation.

SISI KHAMPEPE: When you were a Caprivi an and in promoting the interest of your organisation, what kind of attacks were your authorised to launch against UDF members, can you remunerate them?  You've mentioned that you could burn houses belonging to UDF members; you've mentioned the stabbing of UDF members, or people perceived to be UDF members; you've mentioned shooting members of the UDF.  Are there other attacks that you authorised or that you bona fide believed that you were authorised to carry out in launching attacks?

MR DLAMINI: If my memory serves me well, that's what I still remember that we should attack them, stab, shoot, and that's all.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Moloi do you have any questions.

MR MOLOI: Thank you I have no questions Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Motata do you have any questions?

MR MOTATA: Thank you Chairperson I've got no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And just one, from the evidence you've given Mr Dlamini, it's clear that you operated in this area for some time after your Caprivi training from 1987 through to 1991 more or less, during which period you were involved in a number of incidents, a number of attacks and counter-attacks - or a number of incidents where you repelled attacks, is that correct?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it's like that.

CHAIRPERSON: And yet you say after each and every single incident you're not sure whether you killed or injured any person, except in the one incidence you say you did shoot and you saw people fall.  Are you saying that throughout your period operating in this area, you today are still not sure whether you killed any person?

MR DLAMINI: Well I don't have Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Stewart any questions arising?

MR STEWART: None Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: No questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hewitt?

MR HEWITT: No thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ngubane - it always happens at this stage of the proceedings.
GENERAL LAUGHTER

MR NGUBANE: No questions Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dladla.

MR DLADLA: No questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Dlamini you may stand down.
WITNESS IS EXCUSED