Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-28

KHOZA MGOJO: You say you want her to undergo plastic surgery.

WITNESS:   The second thing is that when my brother died I had to support my brother's children.  Now I am asking the ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you asking the Commission to help the children?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am requesting this Commission to help them to further their education.  That is Bucks' children.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there anything else that you would like to say?

WITNESS:   Also my house was burnt down.  It's still in the very same state.  If this Commission could help me to rebuild our house.  I did rebuild the house, but it's not in the same condition that it was before it got burnt down.  I also incurred a lot of costs, because the people now were asking as to where we were when our house looked like that.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, as a person who had been tortured, you had been tortured physically, some mentally or psychologically, and who need to get the help of psychiatrists as well as psychologists.  Now, according to you who was more affected, or were there any people who were affected psychologically by these tortures who needs to get some attention?

WITNESS:   I think I was the one who was tortured severely physically, as well as psychologically.  After I had stopped the hunger strike I was grounded to my house.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you think you need psychological help?

WITNESS:   It's difficult for one to see himself or herself as to whether he or she needs psychological attention, so I don't know whether I do need psychological attention.  I think I can appreciate it, because I have never talked about this.  I have never talked to my sister-in-law.  I have never asked her as to how she feels about what happened.  We've never talked about the whole incident even with the children.  I think she still feels that I am responsible for all that happened, so we might probably all be affected.  It's the first time that I talked about this incident today.

KHOZA MGOJO: Before I hand over to the Chairman, Sandile, we have heard your requests.  There's five of them.  You said, one, you want a proper investigation as to the perpetrators, so that if there's a need for reconciliation you can be reconciled.  You also said your sister-in-law was burnt on the face and you would request that she gets plastic surgery.  You also pointed out that your brother's children were left fatherless, and you wanted them to further their own education.  How many are they?

WITNESS:   There were two from my sister-in-law, and there were others from outside the marriage.  He has four children outside his marriage.

KHOZA MGOJO: In what standards are the children?

WITNESS:   My sister-in-law's children are still at primary level, and the other ones should be at tertiary level by now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where are the children's mothers?

WITNESS:   They are alive.  They do work, but I do not think that they can be able to put the children through tertiary level because they are working at factories.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said the other request is you would appreciate it if you could be helped to rebuild your house.  With regard to yourself getting psychological attention you said you are not sure because you do not know as to whether you do need it or you do not need it.  You also said that your sister-in-law is pointing a finger at you that you are the one who caused all this pain.  Now, our main job is to pass these recommendations to the State President, as well as the Parliament.  We do not offer any instant help, but we pass suggestions as well as recommendations of the requests made by the victims, as well as witnesses.  We appreciate the fact that you had all the courage to come in front of us and relate this painful story.  You are on the road to recovery, you are in the process of recovering, because now you can talk about this as you have said that it's the first time that you've spoken about this.  That is where I will end.

KHOZA MGOJO: I will just add on to what Dr Mgojo has said with regard to your health.  Many a times when we have been harassed or tortured psychologically it is difficult for one to see or realise that he or she needs help.  I do realise from your statement that you do have certain symptoms of being psychologically tormented.  Now, from that it can be seen that you do need help.  Now, I have been looking at what happened to you when you were still very young.  Your house was attacked, you were detained, you went into solitary confinement, you embarked on a hunger strike, as well as house arrest.  This is too much to happen to one person and that the person should remain unaffected.  I think you should get some attention.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mr Thusi, just for the record, we don't have your date of birth.  If you would kindly give that to us please.

WITNESS:   I was born on the 11th of the 11th month in 1961.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible) ... detained a number of times under section 29.  You've told us about at least two instances of having been detained under section 29.  Were you ever charged?

WITNESS:   (No reply interpreted)

KHOZA MGOJO: Just to add onto what happened.  You said you were working at the Natal University when you were detained.  Are you working at the present moment?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am working at the NGO, called CCLS, Centre for Community and Labour Studies.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... giving us your story today.  You have painted a very clear and vivid picture of the life of a young activist in the township in the eighties, and you have also told - in telling us what life was like as a young activist you have also told us the tragic story of the death of your brother, who was attacked, shot at and burned in his own house.  It really  makes one wonder how the people who called themselves policemen could have actually had the effrontery to call themselves policemen.  You've mentioned one policeman, Makwane, who was present when your house was set on fire and bullets were fired into your house, with a young child inside.  And, as I understand, you said he was from GG Police Station, which is the name given to the KwaZulu Police Station at Umlazi, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Ja.

COMMISSIONER: These were very difficult times for you, and it must be of some satisfaction to you that it was because of young people, young activists like yourself, not only here in Durban, but all around the country, that, along with other factors, led to the collapse of apartheid.  I recall the days when you were in detention, and anyone who lived here on the Berea, Glenwood, will remember that your friends and colleagues at the University of Natal launched a campaign to have you released, and there was writing on many of the walls in these areas saying, "Free Sandile."  And if you go to the corner of Bulwer Road now you will still see a faded sign saying, "Free Sandile," so that's something to remember you by.

COMMISSIONER: So again thank you very much for coming in, telling us that story.  It helps us to get a picture of what life was like in those days, and to make recommendations to our new Government so that these things can be remembered and can never happen again.  Thank you very much for coming in.

WITNESS:   I have a question.  Mrs Magwaza said I should take care of myself.  I did not understand that.  What did she mean by it?