Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1986-04-24

CASE NO: CT/00205

DR BORAINE: You are Ms Tsobileyo, I am very glad to welcome you thank you very much for coming.  You are not going to tell a story about someone else, you going to tell a story about yourself.  I am sorry I should have waited for the earphones but I see you can understand, ja is that better, you can hear my voice.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes I hear.

DR BORAINE: Fine, are you comfortable?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes I am.

DR BORAINE: You not to nervous?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: I am nervous but not so much.

DR BORAINE: Not so much, well just remember that you are amongst friends and we want to help you to tell your story and Advocate Ntsebeza, Commissioner will help you to do just that, and I hope that you will find telling your story is going to be of great help to you as well as to the Commission, thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you Dr Boraine, this is yet  another of those stories that have become so too familiar and that took place or events of which took place in the Western Cape here.  And the period is 1985, and that was a period of great conflagration in the communities here.
You will recall that yesterday you were told the very sad story of the killing of Fuzile Petros Juqu who was killed on the 19th of February.  And the event that you are about to hear was part of those conflicts which in a large measure was part of at that particular point in time, by yet a desire by the apartheid Government to enforce upon an unwilling public one of their policies of [indistinct] of our country.  
This particular instance was when they had decided that large communities of people should be removed from Crossroads, Guguletu to Khayelitsha a waste land about 50 kilometres from Cape Town.
Our research department have in fact provided a very useful background again it was the [indistinct] of yet another Minister of State of the apartheid Government, Dr Viljoen who ironically was called Minister of Co-Operation and Development, who had announced that extra staff and transport were to be supplied to speedup preparations for the removal of residents of Crossroads to Khayelitsha.
When the people resisted, and he had been told that this would be so, the apartheid machinery answered in the only way they knew how by unleashing their killing machine on a protesting public.  Yet again people had to die, people had to be manned, people had to be injured in pursuit of a mad indefensible police.
Nomatise's story is an illustration of that madness for which unfortunately the cost again was very high.  She'll show you injuries that she sustained horrifying injuries but there are injuries which she will not  be able to show you, because of the delicate place where they are located.

DR BORAINE: Could I interrupt you my colleague, I totally forgot to ask the witness to take the oath.  It's my fault I am glad that you gave the introduction which gave me a chance to do that and if you don't mind I'd like to do that now and then please will you continue.  Will you stand for the oath please.
NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: I am sorry I forgot to ask you that.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Okay.

DR BORAINE: Dumisa my apologies.

ADV NTSEBEZA: [indistinct] thank you Dr Boraine, I accept that.
Mr Chairman I was indicating to you that you will see evidence for the attack on Evelyn Nomatise, but there are other injuries which she will only with difficulty tell you about because of the delicatessens of their location where they are.
And it never fills [indistinct] who have to listen to these gory details.  That the human mind sometimes become innovative in very perverse ways and that some of the methods in which the tortures express themselves was to go for the genitals of victims.  I'll put it at no higher than that.
Nomatise now I am going to speak Xhosa with you, I am going to ask you to please bear with me, your pain is our pain as well.  We hope that by your coming here today, the lump that you have in your throat all this time, is going to melt away.  I am not sure if you are ready for us to begin.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes we can begin.

ADV NTSEBEZA: For you to relax my sister, I would just ask you to please start and tell us who you are, where do you come from, where were you born and where did you grow up.  Is your husband here with us, I thought he was going to sit here next to you so that he can say something as well.

DR BORAINE: If her husband is in the house would he please come forward.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Can I say something.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Yes tell us your story.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: My name is Nomatise Tsobileyo, I was born at Emdeni,  but I grew up in King Williams Town.  I came to Cape Town to my parents who were working here that time, that was 1975.  I came here since 1975, I am now staying at Khayelitsha Town 2, before we use to live at Crossroads, then in 1986 we went to live in Khayelitsha.

ADV NTSEBEZA: How long have you been married to your husband?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: We got married in 1990.

ADV NTSEBEZA: When this incident happened you hadn't met yet.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: That time he was working in Johannesburg and I was here in Cape Town.

ADV NTSEBEZA: So you already knew each that time?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: It was then obvious that - seeing that you already knew each other that time and you still together now, it means that he knows all these things.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes he knows these things even though he wasn't here that time he was in Johannesburg.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now let's all go back to that particular day, the 8th of February 1985.  If I understand you well, interrupt me if I am wrong, there were riots at Cross Roads is that so?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes it is.

ADV NTSEBEZA: These riots now were caused by the fact that people were told to go to Khayelitsha by force.  It looks like in Khayelitsha  there were not even proper houses that time.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: No they were just small houses at Khayelitsha and people were forced to go to Khayelitsha and people didn't want these houses.

ADV NTSEBEZA: And it is very - is it difficult for you to go to town from Khayelitsha.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes it's very difficult because it's far.

ADV NTSEBEZA: It's very dry, it's close to being [indistinct] it looks like a dessert, did it look like a place where if people go and live there, they were being thrown there.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes, because there was not even transport at that time, it was just a deserted place.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What did you as the people of Nyanga East and Crossroads do especially those from Crossroads.  When we - when you were told now to go and live by force at Khayelitsha.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: The comrades and I met with other comrades from KTC, Nyanga East and Crossroads.  We marched to [indistinct] to complain about the forced removals.  That morning of the 8th of February 1985, while we were still marching, no we still collecting each other that time, comrades from KTC and Nyanga East we met to - we met at Emdeni, the boers at that time had - were already aware of what we were doing.
They started shooting at us and tear gasses, we went through the shacks and we would also turn back again trying to continue with our march.  But we went to [indistinct].

ADV NTSEBEZA: Who organised this march.

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: I am sorry I can't hear that.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Who organised this march?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: We comrades organised this march.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now when you say the police shot you, was there anybody who told you that what you doing is illegal?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: No nobody gave us any notice.

ADV NTSEBEZA: The police just saw a crowd of people and they shot?

NOMATISE EVELYN TSOBILEYO: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Did you have, were you armed?