Special Hearings — Mental Health Workshop — 1997-11-20

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, I said to you that I ...[intervention]

MR ANTHONY: I beg your pardon.

CHAIRPERSON: Managed to keep to it.
 Does the panel have any questions or any follow-ups?  
 I mean, you've bombarded us with historical ablutions and I think some of them are quite funny to listen to in their ridiculousness but actually they're quite sinister and serious and I think maybe we're all laughing quite hysterically about that sort of stuff.  
 But I don't know whether the panel has got any feedback?  You haven't?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mine's not a comment but just perhaps to share one experience and the issue really is why we were laughing when you were talking about all these really ridiculous things and humour in a sense can trip you up.
 And just a few months ago I was presenting a paper in Amsterdam and before I presented my paper I said to the audience, that it's interesting that in Holland people can pronounce my surname better than they can in South Africa and that I'm a product of our colonial past and - I mean, we laugh about being the products of our colonial past etc., but that wasn't a joke in Amsterdam and people really didn't laugh and they found it actually quite below the belt in a way.
 One other comment I want to share with you is that I was at a meeting where Professor Simpson and I were together also in Copenhagen and somebody from Ghana who is as black as the ace of spades said to me very loudly: "Hey Glenda, what are you, Black or White"? and I said to him: "Of course I'm Black", he says: "Hey listen here, you can't be Black - I'm a dermatologist, I should know".

CHAIRPERSON: Hlingiwe Mkhize?

UNKNOWN: Well, now that I've been given an opportunity to comment, I would just say: "Look really, within the Commission I first had a presentation of this nature in 1990, there was a conference organised by psychology against apartheid and Saths Cooper and Lionel Nicholas at that time were facilitating that organisation and then I forgot about some of this stuff except that in universities, time and again there will be lectures on this.
 But having been part of the TRC process, I cannot acknowledge the seriousness of these theories - their impact.   I mean - I should think it was Zanele who was reading some of the comments - you know, because people who were influenced by this kind of thinking and they internalised it at a deeper level and then the things they did to other people are just overwhelming. 
 So, I avoided even listening and engaging with you seriously because I've seen the after-effects of this scientific strategy.  If you really look at our material - what was done to people, you can see the power of science in the perpetration of human rights violations.

MR ANTHONY: If I may answer that, I think one of the important factors is that the fact that these tests have been done and exist, is well known in the White communities and I can't answer that for the Black communities but I would imagine that's the case there as well.
 And it gives a great deal of comfort and strength to those in South Africa today who are right-wing or racist in their thinking because it justifies their racist thoughts, they believe - they know, that it's all been proved by the scientist - they know that they're right.  
 This is deep in this nations consciousness, I know it - having been to school in White South Africa, this information came into the classrooms, it came into the playing fields, it was disseminated right through this country and it is incumbent upon us.  If we really want to do something, these studies must be dug up and they must be exposed for what they are, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
 It's taken me a whole day to learn to sit away from this microphone and I'm still not getting it right.  Can I thank everyone who gave submissions in the audience.  I guess what I'd really like to do is to move on, I think in a way we've enabled people to make their submissions.  
 It's disappointing at their kind of participation, I hear it is a bad time of year but I didn't think it's that bad - the time of year for people to get away - somebody's nodding their head.  But in a sense I'm not discouraged by that because we've got the information and I think it's for us to make the best use of it in our report - we've got to record it, so I'm fine with that. 
 Can I invite everyone to really put what we've heard today into concrete recommendation for tomorrow.  If you remember, the sections are outlined on the focus topics throughout the programme today and tomorrow - I think because of the small numbers, we're going to collapse groups.  
 We initially had five groups but we're going to collapse into - we'll have to see, I've heard some more people are planning to turn up tomorrow but I think we're going to collapse into two groups okay - and do two topics each, with maybe the fifth topic running through on a separate recommendation.
 Myself and Zena our co-ordinator, will try and do a synopsis of what we've heard today and in terms of note form and prepare questions for tomorrow morning but can I invite everyone to really understand and internalise that today's been presentation, today's been retrospective to a certain extent and that we've got a task to fulfil and it's your opportunity to contribute to those recommendations.
 And I do believe its' - it's an existential point if you like, the end of the Truth Commission.  The Truth Commission's report is a - it has a potential nudge in terms of mental health in this country and if we miss that, then I don't what we'll - well, we've missed a huge opportunity.
 So, if I can invite you to come back early tomorrow morning - 8H30 I mean by early, everyone was aware of that.  Can I have a show of hands please of people who are not expecting to come tomorrow?  Not - two of you?  And everyone else is expecting to come?  Yes, it looks a bit of a lethargic sort of nod.  Yes, is that a yes?  Good, good.
HEARING ADJOURNS