Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-30

THULANI MAHLANGU: We were sitting, or should I say we were patrolling with other SDU members.  We heard gunshots, shots that were being directed at us in our area.  It should be known that when shots are fired towards our area, that was an indication that the war was on and therefore we received a command and we went to Mshayazafe to assist.  Yes, when we arrived there the fighting was going on, it was a war.
	As we were fighting we were disturbed by the soldiers and the stability unit and that is when we fled.  That is what I can still remember.

MR MOPEDI: Who were you fighting at Mshayazafe?

THULANI MAHLANGU: We were fighting the IFP members.  As it was indicated earlier on, there was a fighting going on, we were fighting the IFP members.

MR MOPEDI: If you may explain this Mshayazafe, was it a number of house or a hostel?  Could you explain this Mshayazafe?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Mshayazafe is a hostel, not houses.

MR MOPEDI: So those people that you were fighting there, how do you know that they were members of the IFP?

THULANI MAHLANGU: As I have explained earlier on, members of the IFP resided in the hostel, that's where they were, that's where the fighting was going on.  They were in the hostel.  We came in to assist our fellow brothers and we started attacking them.

MR MOPEDI: Were you specifically, you in particular, armed?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Yes, I was armed.

MR MOPEDI: With what?

THULANI MAHLANGU: With an AK47.

MR MOPEDI: And did you use that AK47?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Yes, I used it.  It was a fighting situation, my brother, it was a war.  I fired shots.

MR MOPEDI: And the people that you were firing at, do you know them by name or could you tell us if you know them?

THULANI MAHLANGU: First of all I didn't know them.  In a war situation, fighting your enemy, you just know these are IFP members, your enemies.  You know where they stay etc., therefore one did not have time to ascertain as to who was shot etc.  It was a war, we were just shooting.

MR MOPEDI: At that incident, did you suffer any casualties?

THULANI MAHLANGU: I don't have that knowledge but I'm quite sure that there must be people who died or got injured, but we did not verify that.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Mopedi, if I can just ask.
	Mr Mahlangu, when you came to Mshayazafe, did you get inside those hostels or were you shooting from the outside?

THULANI MAHLANGU: We shot from outside the hostel.  We were firing shots towards the hostel.

ADV SANDI: Did you see any people, any IFP members as you were firing?

THULANI MAHLANGU: We were shooting at people who were within our view.  They were shooting through the hostel windows.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Sir.
	Mr Mahlangu, do you still have further incidents that you would like to tell this hearing about?

THULANI MAHLANGU: One other incident that I would like to bring forward is the gangster incident.  In our area we had gangsters.  We used to patrol often and on coming across unregistered firearm we would confiscate it and hand it over to our commanders.
	Sometimes we would patrol and come back with nothing.  That was the situation but yes, we used to patrol and come across the gangsters, confiscate firearms from them.  
	There was also this so-called Khumalo gang that used to come to our area.  These were the IFP members.  They would come and start shooting people and so we decided to patrol that area and make sure that we do not lose lives.

MR MOPEDI: So the gangs that you are referring to, is it the Khumalo gang, is that the only gang that you know, that you remember?

THULANI MAHLANGU: We also had the Bad Boys.  That was another gang that operated in the area.  They were also equally used.

MR MOPEDI: So you were disarming them, taking weapons from them or what did you do about the weapons after you have taken the weapons from them?

THULANI MAHLANGU: We would confiscate the firearms and hand the firearm over to the commander.

MR MOPEDI: Do you know what happened eventually to those weapons that you confiscated?

THULANI MAHLANGU: No, I have no idea.  I am quite sure that he may have handed these over to his superiors.

MR MOPEDI: Who was your commander?

THULANI MAHLANGU: It was Mosa Msimango.

MR MOPEDI: The weapons that you confiscated from the gangs, what kind of weapons were they?

THULANI MAHLANGU: These weapons ranged from knives to guns, illegal guns because it sometimes, or should I say we made sure that we do not confiscate firearms that were licensed.

MR MOPEDI: Is there any further incident that you would like to tell us about?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Yes, there is another one.  I was from my patrolling duties, I'm not quite sure of the date, and I walked past a certain street.  I met my friend along the way and he asked me where I came from and he wanted to know how can I go to war without an firearm.  He was carrying a baby.  I had pistol in my possession which was on fire and as I was taking it out to show it to him, as I was handing it over to him and he gave back to me and in the process a shot went off and he died instantly.

MR MOPEDI: You say you had a pistol, whose pistol was that?  Was it your personal pistol or could you tell  us?

THULANI MAHLANGU: The pistol belonged to the community as we were doing our patrol duties.  I was carrying it.  I was from my patrolling assignments.
	After the baby was shot, the community came together and discussed this mistake because the baby was shot accidentally and the community decided that because this was a mistake, necessary arrangement were taken or made by my family for the funeral.  Therefore my family took responsibility in terms of funeral arrangements.  Discussions were entered into between my family and that of the baby.
	I had known this person for a very long time.  I would not have shot the child, or the baby deliberately.  I was forgiven for that incident.  That is one other thing that has prompted me to seek amnesty insofar as the roles that I played.

MR MOPEDI: Are the family or the father of the deceased child aware that you would be bringing this application?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Yes, he knows.

MR MOPEDI: What was their reaction?

THULANI MAHLANGU: I told him that I am seeking amnesty for this incident and he indicated that this is bygone, he doesn't have a problem, it is up to me how I proceed.  This is bothering me quite a lot and that is why I have decided to bring it up here.  He indicated that he doesn't have any problem, I can seek amnesty, it's up to me.  Now that I have the opportunity I am here to seek amnesty.

MR MOPEDI: So are you praying or asking for amnesty in respect of all these acts that you have committed?

THULANI MAHLANGU: That is correct.

MR MOPEDI: Is there anything that you would like to add?

THULANI MAHLANGU: No.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mopedi.  Advocate Steenkamp, questions?

ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Advocate Steenkamp.  Panel?

ADV SANDI: Mr Mhlangu, who is the father of this baby, what is his name?

THULANI MAHLANGU: It's Vusi Xneba.

ADV SANDI: Just to ensure that I follow the facts accurately, pertaining to this incident.  You say you were handing over a pistol to your friend and a shot accidentally went off and a baby was - can you repeat this again?  A baby was hit and subsequently died?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Yes, this baby so happened to be shot and it died.  I don't know whether I should go back and start afresh?

THULANI MAHLANGU: Where was this baby in relation to the position where yourself and your friend were at the time you were handing over the pistol to him?