Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-09

MR AMEEN: They were attending the same school with you?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes the same school.

MR AMEEN: And after school was disrupted, you met in the course of the day?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: The six of you?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: And from the, aside from your normal activities, you played football until about two o' clock?

SIMON MORRIS: From the school we went home, to our respective homes, and then we met again about eleven o'clock because Vuyani used to go to his home on Fridays so he stayed with my neighbour which was Msilana Sishange.

MR AMEEN: Right.  And you played - from then on you played football until about two?

SIMON MORRIS: Not particularly football, we played tennis in the street.

MR AMEEN: Right.  And then which part of Orlando was this in that you were playing?

SIMON MORRIS: We were playing in our street just nearby our homes.

MR AMEEN: And after you finished playing, where did you go to?

SIMON MORRIS: As usual Vuyani used to go to his mother at Orlando East.  He asked us to accompany him to his home.

MR AMEEN: That is all six of you went to his, were going towards his home?

SIMON MORRIS: Ja.

MR AMEEN: Now at some point on the way to his home you were accosted.  Can you tell the committee who were you accosted by.  Just who were you accosted by?

SIMON MORRIS: I think the first applicant and the second one because the first applicant produced a firearm just at the passage, you mentioned the church, the Presbyterian Church.  They came out of the passage, it was about I think 60 metres from Vuyani's home.

MR AMEEN: Mr Morris who accosted you.

SIMON MORRIS: Mr Hlasa, I don't know if it's Hlasa or (indistinct)

MR AMEEN: Was he accompanied by any other people?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: Who was he accompanied by?

SIMON MORRIS: The other two.

MR AMEEN: The other two?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: Right.  How were you accosted?

SIMON MORRIS: Mr Hlasa came forward and asked for a cigarette and all of us did not smoke, we said we didn't have a cigarette.

MR AMEEN: Right.

SIMON MORRIS: And then from there he produced a firearm and said we have burnt a house in Orlando West.  We said no and then from there the other two accompanied him, they surrounded us.

MR AMEEN: And where did they take you to?

SIMON MORRIS: At gunpoint we were told to prove our innocence so we went with them through the passage, through other two streets and then at the corner of the second street that is where we met a group of other people.

MR AMEEN: And what happened at that point?

SIMON MORRIS: We were forced at gunpoint to enter the cars because we were trying to - they said we must go to that house and prove our innocence.

MR AMEEN: What cars were these?

SIMON MORRIS: The Chevrolet 41 which was red in colour.

MR AMEEN: Right and the other?

SIMON MORRIS: And a Mazda 323 because if I remember correctly the number plate of the Mazda was CKL2, I think 2 something but it was CKL.

MR AMEEN: Right.  All six of you then were taken in these cars to a house?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes we were taken to a house in our street.

MR AMEEN: Right, and what happened at that house?

SIMON MORRIS: When we entered the house of the person who alleged that we burnt a house, the cars went to the backyard.  We were told at gunpoint to come out.  We came out of the cars.  Mr Mphoreng was also taking out the gun again, we were forced into the kitchen where we met - when we entered the kitchen we found about nine to eleven men, seemingly they were painting.

MR AMEEN: And did this house bear any signs that it had been petrol bombed or burnt?

SIMON MORRIS: There was no sign.

MR AMEEN: Right.  What happened once you got into the kitchen?

SIMON MORRIS: When we entered the kitchen they said they were waiting for us.

MR AMEEN: Right, and then, what happened then?

SIMON MORRIS: The torturing started because the kitchen did not have any furniture.  There was a table there with about four to five guns with magazines, there were also hunting knives, there was an axe, there was an aerial, a car aerial and then we were told to strip down, we did that.  We were given old clothes ... (intervention)

MR AMEEN: Can I just remind you, were there any iron rods on the table?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes, yes there were iron rods.  Our money was taken, watches were taken, the running shoes, because all of us had running shoes, were taken and if I remember correctly the very same guy took my running shoes.

MR AMEEN: The very same guy, that is who?

SIMON MORRIS: This one.

MR AMEEN: Is that the first applicant, who are you pointing to?

SIMON MORRIS: I'm referring to the first applicant.

MR AMEEN: Mr Hlasa?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.

MR AMEEN: Right.

SIMON MORRIS: And as I was wearing a tracksuit, because I was a player of Keiser Chiefs, he even took the top of the tracksuit.  We were given old trousers and we were also given the curtain wires to fasten the trousers.  Well the torturing then continued from there.

MR AMEEN: How long did this continue in the kitchen?

SIMON MORRIS: In the kitchen I think it is more than one to two hours.

MR AMEEN: Do you want to give the committee more details of the torture?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes definitely.  At one point we were told to stretch our arms, just like Jesus Christ when he was on the cross, and then they will take a but of the gun and then hit you on the ribs.  At another point we were told to close our eyes and then they will hit you on the face with the iron rods.  At one stage we were told to lie down and then they will stamp on top of your head.

MR AMEEN: With their feet?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.  At one point, I think I remember correctly, the other guy, I don't know his name, he said he was practising his boxing skills on my body.  I think it was so terrible when one remembers.  I'm surprised that they are saying they can't remember the details.

MR AMEEN: Were you, did you scream?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes a lot.

MR AMEEN: The people who were with you who were being tortured with you, were they screaming?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes all of us screamed.

MR AMEEN: You mentioned - no you didn't mention.  Was there any music playing in the house?

SIMON MORRIS: The music was playing so high, probably to make the neighbours not to be aware of what was happening inside the house.

MR AMEEN: At what stage were you removed from the kitchen?

SIMON MORRIS: We were then divided into two groups.

MR AMEEN: Of how many?

SIMON MORRIS: Of three.

MR AMEEN: Who was in your group?

SIMON MORRIS: In the bedroom which was in it was myself, Sekano and Vuyani Nkomo.

MR AMEEN: Sekano is the other survivor?

SIMON MORRIS: Yes.  We then entered that bedroom, it was the front bedroom facing the street.  We were then tortured again because they told us we did not come up with the right answers, which answers I don't know because even today I don't know why we were tortured, why some of us died and why maybe today I'm here because they don't give us the right answers.

MR AMEEN: What - they obviously wanted information from you.  Can you remember what information they wanted?

SIMON MORRIS: They said we burnt a house, the house, that particular house.

MR AMEEN: And you saw no signs of burning?

SIMON MORRIS: No.  Even the burning we never knew about the burning of the house.  Even the activities that they claim we were SOSCO members, they must be embarrassed to call us SOSCO members because we were never involved in politics.

MR AMEEN: What other information did they want from you?

SIMON MORRIS: They said who were causing trouble in the location.  We did not know who were the people causing trouble.

MR AMEEN: Did you or any of the others who were abducted or kidnapped that day, give them information about going around (indistinct) houses?

SIMON MORRIS: No.