Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-24

MS DEBORAH: Okay.  Then I was taken in fact back - the district surgeon insisted that I should be taken to hospital.  Instead of taking me to hospital they took me to the female prison and put me in a bigger cell, which was clean, because it was prison and it was next to the hospital, sick bay, whatever they call it, clinic, the prison clinic.
 It was around May. I sat in that cell.  Quite often not getting food. The attitude now was no longer from the system as such, from the security police, but from the prison wardresses.  The prison wardresses were obviously given 
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instructions.  They would bring the porridge in the morning and you know, just leave it outside. I couldn't reach it, it was at the door outside.  It was like starving, no food.  When they eventually decided to kick the plate into the cell, it was already infested with ants.  They had put a spoon of sugar there infested with ants.  I knew that it was really not a waste.  I was in solitary confinement all the time.  In that cell my life continued.
 Somewhere in October I complained of pain, it was gynaecologically related. I had been to prison, when I went to jail I had an ID and I told the district surgeon and I was taken to Edendale Hospital. Fortunately because it was a gynaecological problem they couldn't go in with me.  But when I got there, I spoke to the nurse there quickly, saying look for Zola Hlongwe, this friend I had there, and Zola came.     
 This is when I learnt of the terrible news for the first time that Steve Biko had died, who had been a very close friend of mine.  
 I went back to prison.  Or, I was supposed to be admitted there to have this thing removed, but instead the security refused and took me to a place, a private place in Howick, where it was removed by the district surgeon there.  That night I think, I lost my mind again, that evening, and one of the wardresses came and just - because they could not open, I was not allowed outside, I was not allowed outside at all for exercises - came to the cell. I pulled her towards the bars and I beat her up, I beat her up against the bars, out of anger I beat her up against the bars.  Actually at that stage I was just hoping I was taken to court, to meet people, to talk what I was undergoing. 
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 They came that night for me.  Again, it was the same, same person who was the same person, Rooi Otto all the time.  I was sjambokked that night at Alexandra Police Station.  There were other people being tortured whom I can never know who they were, but I know that Marlo Simpumala was also around that time.  I was beaten up but mainly for beating up this girl.  But I must say that changed my life because again it was the same Dreyer who came the next day, when I had these sjambok marks, who asked me what I needed and for the first time I was allowed to have a Bible in my cell.  I had nothing to read, nothing, nothing at all, it was just this empty cell. I was given a Bible and the district surgeon was called. I asked him to call the district surgeon to come and look at my marks.  They spoke in Afrikaans and he told him that he doesn't think I am normal at this stage.  And that they should like try to see if I could get a visit.   The next month my father was allowed to see me, but in their midst and we couldn't talk much.  He went away.  They asked me what I wanted. I asked for a magazine and he brought me some wool and a crochet needle.   Those are the instructions that the district surgeon that at least I should do something.
 I went back to solitary confinement with something to do. I had a Bible to read and a magazine to read.  I remember that arrogantly they brought me a Rooi Rose, but I read it. 
 In January I was told to pack my things. The beatings stopped, I wasn't beaten up, I was just living alone and not allowed to go out to the yard to exercise. In January I went for this long drive and then I came, when I came to I was in a prison, I was told it is Bethal.  I was given a cell where SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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there was a bed, sheets and I was given good food, proper food to eat.  Not the corn and things.  They put clean food there, and there was a nurse there, an African nurse who spoke and conversed with me like daily.
 Three days later, no, a week later I was take out to go and speak to the magistrate.  No, first they allowed my sister to come and visit me and my father.  They came, I got visits and it was like contact visit, the security was there. We hugged, we talked, they were there so we couldn't talk much.  The next day the magistrate came.  Dreyer was coming, you know, this nice security guy was coming to me every time and asking if I am okay, bringing me biscuits, chocolates.  
 It was like becoming human and the magistrate came, talked to me about making a statement.  The statement that was saying that Saso is involved in the June 16 uprisings, and that we have been involved in taking people out of the country.  The youth that have gone out of the country, communicating with Keith Mokape, and above all, a statement that was incriminating that we were couriers between banned people in the country, from across the political spectrum.  Whereby they knew that Saso did not choose to deal with people on political party grounds.  
 Harry Gwala, I used to visit Harry Gwala in Natal before my involvement and they wanted to know why I went to Harry Gwala and the next thing why I went to Winnie Mandela.  Zeph Motopeng and why did you go and see this one in East London.  That kind of thing that when we were passing the messages.  But  the statement was incriminating a lot of other people.  I refused to sign the statement, especially because I hadn't written it.  They had written the 
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statement.
 When the magistrate brought the statement to me about Saso's activities that involved Steve Biko, Barney Petsane, Tom Manthata, all the people that I worked with, I refused to sign that statement.
 They continued being nice and treating me well, but a few weeks down the line they did not beat me up this time. They were not torturing me.  It was the magistrate who was speaking to me nicely and Dreyer.  
 Then I was told to pack my bag again. I was put in a car, this time they blindfolded me and drove me to a place, it is only like two, three days later, that I learnt that I was in Middelburg prison.  It must have been around March.   They put me in a small cell, Rooi Otto threw me there, with Susubi who was the security guard, a Black security guard that I knew from Krugersdorp.  
 This cell had no window and their hope was that I would again you know, get claustrophobic and get an asthma attack, but I think I had overcome all that.  They told the two wardresses that - they spoke in Afrikaans, little realising that I understand that very well.  They told the two wardresses Garabotha and Marina Harmse that I am a terrorist, they must be very careful of me, I was caught in Katimamolelo, with arms and ammunition and that they must move very far away from me.
 That was a very uncomfortable situation where they used to run away.  When I get out of the cell, they throw the plates, you know, like I am some wild animal, "vat jou kos gou" (take your food quickly), you know. I have to come and pick up my plate of food.  Sometimes it spilt and then I have to collect it back into the plate, go back into the 
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cell. 
 This escalated into a very oppressive and animosity and frankly speaking, I had nothing to lose.  It was a very wild set-up.  The area was very small and it was a place, an area where they kept prisoners, males for maximum, what was called maximum. They called it maximum when I communicated with them, and the male prisoners.  They were en route to Barberton or to Hangbal somewhere, hard-core criminals.  
 There were times when two of them would fight with me and they would really overpower me.  Time and again the magistrate would come and I would tell them what was going on, but he didn't care.  After the magistrate left the security would ask them "het julle goed geslaan" (did you give her a good hiding) and they would say "ja" (yes). Fights would ensue any time.  They would start it and at times I would even started before they started.  So I lived for the six months in Middelburg.  
 The magistrate allowed me to be taken to the dental clinic. I had sustained a broken tooth a year ago in Pietermaritzburg.  They said they should take me out because all I pleaded for was that time and again, at times I don't get tablets, the tablets they give me for pain, so if I could just have it extracted.  They took me to a dentist in Middelburg, and I went there in handcuffs.  It is quite a public place, because there were workers around who were swearing at them, you know, how can you put a woman in handcuffs.  
 But I knew for the method that they were no longer assaulting me, I knew that they were defeated, but I was in solitary confinement all the time. I had already almost completed 500 days in solitary confinement.  That was 
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normal.  
 At the end of August, somewhere, I was told that I was being released and that I was being released.  I was driven to Krugersdorp with two other guys who apparently also had been kept in Middelburg.  I didn't know that.  Solly Rametse who is now a councillor, I think in Alexandria.  They dropped him off at Park Station.  He had come from Jo'burg, from Soweto and this other guy Hippo, I don't know his name, but we both were driven to Krugersdorp.  He was told he could go.  I was told to wait. I waited in an office, it was some time in the afternoon.  
 At about half past five or six that evening Coetzee told me that there is a telex from Pretoria and I was being redetained.  Then I was driven to the Fort that night.  The next day I was told that I was being detained under Section 10.  At least there were two people that I could communicate with, there was Thubi Mayet who was in a cell and Gladys Mansi, who had also apparently been released from Section 6.   A doctor was allowed to come and see me and I was taken to the Johannesburg Hospital, where I was told that I was suffering from malnutrition and anxiety.  I don't know if you will believe that I had no hair, just, you know, I was almost bald, you know my hair had been coming out, was falling out. I was given tablets. 
 I stayed at the Fort, so then I had companions and I was allowed a weekly visit from my family.  Until December when this time it came in a letter from Jimmy Kruger, Section 10 you actually got a letter from him, that you could be released.
 On the day two security police came to take me home, they said and you know, I was actually reluctant and refused SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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to go, and saying no, I will find my own way home, because of the nasty experiences that I had had.  They told me that they served me with a banning order, that you are actually supposed to be out of Johannesburg, you have got to back to Krugersdorp. So I was given, served with a five year banning order, and was released from prison.
 My life outside was no different. I had to sign at the police station every Monday.  On two particular occasions, the first time I got this very good job.  I saw this advert trainee manager. I applied for this job, with Woolworths, a very good company, a well-paying job.  After three months they discovered that I was working. I was called to the office and told that I have to go, because the security police say I should not be allowed to work there. I couldn't go back to my profession.  Oh, yes, I told you that I was a radiographer before. I couldn't work, because I would be in the company of more than two people.
 I just a week before they detained me in Vrede, I just got married. I went to register our marriage at the magistrate's office.  So when I came out of prison and to celebrate our wedding in church, I was not allowed to attend the wedding.  I had to remain in the bedroom throughout the wedding celebrations.  Obviously my friends also had been banned or had gone into exile.  
 I kept on meeting this Joe Sosobe, security police. I remember one day him telling me that you know, you should count your blessings, "male Madimo", because in Pietermaritzburg we are going to make history with you, you are going to be a woman that dies in detention, and we also had easy with you, because you had ill-health, and it was going to very easy.
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 Little realising that most of the time when they were torturing me, during interrogation, and couldn't even talk.  Even though I would have wanted to answer them and stand my point, but I couldn't talk because I had no breath.  It sort of compounded the situation and caused a vicious circle, they thought she is stubborn, you know. I couldn't talk, I would just look at them.  I asked for tablets, there are no tablets, I am ill, you talk.
 So basically that was it and those are the atrocities that I underwent.  Thank you.