Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-26

CHAIRPERSON: For purposes of the record this is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee in the East London City Hall.  Today is Monday 26th April 1999.
	The panel hearing the applications is chaired by myself, Denzil Potgieter, I'm assisted by Advocate Francis Bosman and Ntsiki Sandi.  We will be hearing the applications today of Mr Lerato Abel Kgotlhe, amnesty reference number AM5619/97.  Pila Martin Dolo, amnesty reference AM3485/96 and Lavuyo Kenneth Kuluman, amnesty reference AM1638/96.
	Mr Mbandazayo, do you want to put yourself on record?

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson and Honourable Members of the Committee.  My name is Lungelo Mbandazayo, I'm representing the applicants in this hearing.  Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson.  I'm Ramula Patel, leader of evidence for the Amnesty Committee, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Can you just give us an indication, is there one of the interested parties present at the proceedings?

MS PATEL: Yes Honourable Chairperson, the person present today is Cornelia Pienaar who is the wife of the deceased in one of the Ficksburg house bombing.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

ADV BOSMAN: Is that quite correct Ms Patel?  The way I see it that Mr Roos was a deceased before the incident?

MS PATEL: Mrs Pienaar is subsequently remarried.

ADV BOSMAN: No Ms Patel, I think you misunderstand me, Mrs Pienaar seems to be the victim, her former husband passed away before the incident appeared.

MS PATEL: Yes, I'm so sorry.  I'm so sorry, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you.  Mrs Pienaar, I think perhaps you want to just confirm what was just said?

MRS PIENAAR: I am Cornelia Getrude Pienaar and I am the victim in the Apla attack.

CHAIRPERSON: And what is your position, do you oppose the application or what is the position?

MRS PIENAAR: We oppose the application.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  Yes, Mr Mbandazayo, is there anything else that you wanted to place on record before we proceed to hear the applications of your client?

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson, what I want to place on record is what is regarding the incident especially the one at the house of Mrs Cornelia Pienaar.  Chairperson, there may be a slight confusion regarding the houses.  There were two houses attacked by two groups and according to the information is that the house of Mrs Pienaar was attacked with a - there was a hand grenade which was used and according to our information is that Mr Dolo applied that initially he was charged for this incident regarding the house 143 3rd Street and it seems as if according to information when I consulted with them in fact Mr Dolo was not in that, he was not the one who was in that house, Mr Kgotlhe was in that house 143.  So because they don't know the numbers and because Mr Dolo was charged, he thought that it was the house but now it transpires that a hand grenade and yet his group did not have a hand grenade, it was Kgotlhe's group that had a hand grenade.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you Mr Mbandazayo, that has been noted.  Are you starting off with the application of Mr Dolo?

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Chairperson, I would like to start with Mr Dolo the applicant followed by Mr Kgotlhe then Mr Kuluman but I would like to have direction from the Committee whether Mr Dolo's applying for two incidents, whether should I, when I'm leading him, take it all the incidents he's applying for, we'll deal with them and we finish them and thereafter we take Mr Kgotlhe?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes it would appear that that would be more advisable just to lead him on everything that he is applying for and we can take the next applicant.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: (sworn states)

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Dolo, the affidavit which is in front of you is also before the Committee.  Do you confirm that the affidavit which is before the Committee was made by yourself and you abide by its contents?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes I do.

CHAIRPERSON: If you're going to testify in English then you might as well take it off Mr Dolo.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, he is going to testify in English.  Chairperson, for the benefit of the people who don't have the affidavit, I will read the affidavit if that's the case and go through it, thanks.
	The affidavit by Mr Dolo reads thus:
"I, the undersigned, Pila Martin Dolo, do hereby make an oath and say that I'm the applicant in the undermentioned incidents, the facts to which I depose are true and correct and within my personal knowledge unless the context states otherwise.  I was born in Uitenhage in KwaLabushe Township and grew up in the Eastern Cape.  I was born 29 years ago and unmarried.  I left school in 1989 doing standard nine and left the country to Botswana the same year.  I joined PAC through Azania in 1984 and joined Apla in exile in 1989.  As Apla operative, my general instructions from the Apla high command was to persecute the armed struggle with all means against the racist minority regime which was undemocratic and oppressive.  The said armed struggle was in essence a guerrilla warfare during which we as Apla cadres had to seek and attack the bastions and minions of the then aforesaid regime.  The ultimate objective of PAC and Apla was not only to topple the then racist minority regime but to eventually return the land to the majority of the African people.  The bastions and minions of the then erstwhile regime were in terms of Apla perspective the members of the South African Defence Force, the members of the South African Police and Reservists in general, the farmers as they belonged to commando structure, over and above the fact that they occupied the farms from which we had to drive them away from so as to widen our territorial operation and base which was aimed at eventually consolidating, liberated and repossessed land.  The White homes which were garrisons of apartheid.
	My general instruction was to seek, identify and attack the enemy who was seen in the context of the above bastions and minions of the regime and also to train other cadres and command them in whatever operation that is being embarked upon.  
	Ficksburg House Attack - In consequence and in pursuit of the above stated objective during on or about the 4th December 1992 I commanded a unit of Apla cadres that launched an attack in a certain house..."
Mr Chairperson, as I indicated that it will be heard now, the change because it was not the same house he attacked, was attacked by the unit which was led by Mr Kgotlhe, but they attacked some of the houses which were in that area same night.

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Mbandazayo, maybe the applicant will have to confirm what you've just said?

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I do confirm it.