Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-19

MR WILLS: Yes.  When you put her in the boot, you didn't then think to treat her gently?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I placed a corpse in the back of the vehicle, to treat it gently never emerged in my mind, I had placed a corpse in the back of the vehicle.

MR WILLS: I would have thought you would have put a woman's body in, in such a way that you would have taken care to make sure that she was put in without indecently being exposed, is that not the case?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, it never occurred to me.

MR WILLS: Thank you, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Samuel, do you have any questions?
NO QUESTIONS BY MR SAMUEL

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe, do you have any questions?

MS THABETHE: No questions, Mr Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Mr Hugo - I'm sorry, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: No Chairperson, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax, any questions?

MR LAX: Just one question, Chair.
	Mr du Preez, apart from this particular day where you were asked to assist with the disposing of the body, were you present during the interrogation?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: I was not present during her interrogation.

MR LAX: You weren't present during the time that the abduction took place?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: I assisted with the arrest.

MR LAX: So apart from those few fleeting moments, you had no other contact with Mrs Kubheka?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.

MR LAX: You hadn't seen her before?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: I didn't know her, I knew her family.

MR LAX: So that really was - I mean the sum total of you seeing her, apart from handling her when she was deceased, was pretty short?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: Chairperson, what I can recall is her mass, she was tremendously heavy, we struggled to put her in the vehicle and to remove her and to drag her from the road into the grass.

MR LAX: Yes, I understand that, but the fact of the matter is, you didn't have much opportunity to observe her, apart from lifting her?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: No, only the arrest and from that point onwards ...(intervention)

INTERPRETER: The Interpreter didn't hear the last bit of what the speaker said.

MR LAX: Sorry, just repeat it.  You're saying it was approximately half an hour?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: Yes, as long as it would take to drive from Battery Beach to Toti.

MR LAX: And in that time she was seated in a vehicle.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: That is correct, she was seated in the kombi.

MR LAX: Is it possible that with this lapse of time, you're exaggerating the extent of her hugeness in your own mind, it may have got bigger with the passing of time?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS MR DU PREEZ: That is how I recall her.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any questions arising from questions that have been put by Mr Lax?  Mr du Preez, thank you, that concludes your testimony.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: That then concludes the testimony of the applicants, am I correct?  The next witness, Mr Samuel, will it be Mr Mbane?
	Mr Mbane, do you wish to the oath or would you prefer to make an affirmation?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, please be seated.  Sorry, before you proceed, what are your full names?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Frank Xhola Mbane.

CHAIRPERSON: And you're going to testify in Xhosa, isiXhosa?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Samuel.

MR SAMUEL: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mbane, you made in fact two statements.  In bundle 1 your statement appears at page 122 to 131, do you confirm the contents of this statement?

MR LAX: The question was, do you confirm the contents of your statement at page 122 to 131?

MR SAMUEL: In bundle 1.

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Yes, I confirm that.

MR SAMUEL: And you made a similar statement, almost identical statement in the additional bundle, at page 120 to 137, do you confirm that statement also?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR SAMUEL: Now we will restrict ourselves to just the matter at hand, that is Ntombi Kubheka, and I refer you to page 128 of bundle 1, and page 130 in bundle 2, or the additional bundle.  Do you confirm the contents of those portions also?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say you confirm that contents, do you confirm the contents as being correct?

MR SAMUEL: Do you confirm the contents as being correct?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR SAMUEL: I notice that you haven't made a detailed statement as to the exact sequence of events, would you like to proceed to explain to this Commission, the sequence of events in regard to Ntombi Kubheka, from the time you met her prior to her abduction, to the time you last saw her at Winkelspruit?

FRANK XHOLA MBANE: Yes, I can continue.