Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: The names were given to me verbally and we're not supposed to write it down.  You just discuss, we're not supposed to write anything down.  Those were then the names that were given to me in the meeting.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Okay.  I want to turn now to the incident you refer to in paragraph sixty two (62) on page one hundred and fifty six (156).  It's the attack on the ANC's Isikhumplazi Central Committee member.  Is it not so that we have subsequently learnt that this person was actually called Mrs Tilly Nkosi?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, Tilly.

MR WILLS: Can you describe this ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Nkosi?  N-K-O-S-I or M-K-H-O-S-O?  What's the surname?

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, possibly my learned friend Mr Patel would be able to help with the spelling, but I think it's N-K-O-Z-I.  We're sure that the christian name or the first name is Tilly, T-I-L-L-Y.

MR PATEL: As I have it, Mr Chairman, it's N-K-O-S-I.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Patel.

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane, can you describe this incident?  What happened here?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: After leaving Noah's place, it was myself, Noah and - let me explain how the surrounding or Noah's home how it looks like.  Noah had a house in Thembisa.  He left Thembisa.  When the community was fighting against Charles Maseko.  Charles Maseko was working in one of the offices here.  Unfortunately one million disappeared and he was suspected as a culprit.  So therefore since he was trained as a soldier, he has to leave his home and go and stay with Charles.  Now, I'm talking about the Maseko house.  I'm talking about the house of Charles Maseko.  On this particular night when Ms Nkosi was injured, it was myself, Charles Maseko, the owner of the house, Noah and China.  Noah, roundabout six (6) o'clock, said, "Today we are going to kill Ms Nkosi".  Charles Maseko said, "If we can be able to kill this woman, she's a troublesome woman in Wesselton, and she's the one who decides women", and we all laughed and we left to Wesselton, myself and China.  When we were at Wesselton on that particular night we meet her.  She was having a baby on her back.  China confirmed that it is her.  If I remember well, at that instant a car which was a bakkie carrying furniture, a furniture bakkie came and it stopped at her gate.  And then she bent.  I did the U-turn and went back to her.  She was about the distance from where I am to where my lawyer is sitting and she stood upright.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, that distance, just for record purposes is about eight (8) paces.  Would you agree?

MR WILLS: As you please, Mr Chairperson.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: And then she stood up straight with her head up.  I wanted to hit her forehead.  The bullet went just underneath her eye.  The car ran away quickly.  I tried to shoot from the back, but I saw the child and she ran.  And she ran around the corner and that's what happened and I gave the report to Noah and he was very frustrated.  He said I should have even killed the child.

MR WILLS: Did you find out whether or not Ms Nkosi had been injured or how extensive her injuries were?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: After working or after thirty (30) minutes or an hour, the policewoman called speaking to Noah.  After each and every attack, whether the person was killed, it's a corpse or whether the person is in hospital, the police will give a report as to whether the person survive or escape death or not, and I will say it was after thirty (30) minutes and we receive a call.  They said he escaped, she's in hospital.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now, I want to turn now to the incident you describe in paragraph - sorry, before we do that.  You've never been prosecuted or charged in respect of this incident?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Now, let's turn to look at this incident you describe at paragraph sixty three (63) on page one hundred and fifty six (156) of Volume one (1).  That is the attack on ANC member Crucket.  Can you describe to the Committee what you did?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: It's a man who was known as Mr Crucket.  I won't be able to say whether this is his name or surname.  He was referred to as Crucket.  She was at the back opposite of Christina Khaba.  She had the problem with Christina because it was said that comrade normally assembled at his place and we were told that we shall go and kill him because that's where the ANC is based.  Therefore I took China who pointed the house to me, in the house.  It was a big house, when you enter the home the gate is standing directly to the entrance to the garage.  China explained that it's a grown-up man who has hair.  We left Noah's place and we were going to do both the operations on the same night.  We left Isikhumplazi after shooting Ms Nkosi and that particular night we went to Estancia.  We didn't first get into the house, we went out to confirm if he's there and they found it and Christina confirmed that she was there, and therefore I entered into the shop and China went down to stand by the corner.  I entered wearing a jean.  My gun was inside the jean and I was wearing a T-shirt over which was COSATU T-shirt, red in colour.  And the gun was right in front.  This Crucket came and he went up.  When coming back he was towards my direction and I shot at him, and he started crawling or rolling.  I couldn't jump because there was a fence and there was only a small hole where you can take out goods or money.  So, I couldn't therefore shoot him while he was crawling under this counter.  There was shooting from the house because there was one young man who was a policeman by a Zulu surname.  I think it might be the person who was shooting, but I'm not sure.  So, therefore we were in a crossfire and we started running away, and we went back to Noah to give the report.  At the same time a telephone call came to say he's in hospital.

MR WILLS: As far as you know, this person did not die?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, the telephone call came to say he didn't die, he's in hospital.

MR WILLS: And again you haven't been prosecuted or charged in respect of this incident?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: No, I wasn't.

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane, let's turn to page one hundred and fifty seven (157), paragraph sixty four (64), the attack on ANC member in Kathi Township in Ermelo.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I can remember.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us about this?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: As I've said, we got the mandate to attack the youth.  On this particular night we were out on our campaign to kill the youth.  When getting out of Noah's place we jumped one street and a second.  At a ground, referring probably soccer field, a young boy came and China was in front of me as usual, and China said this is an ANC member.  He talked to this young boy and I was coming.  After talking to this young boy and he passed him, and he signalled me and I shot at the boy.

MR WILLS: Now, you say in your affidavit that this boy fell to the ground, but do you know if he died?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, he passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you give an estimation of that boy's age?  You refer to him as a young boy.  Can you give us any idea of how old he would have been?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: If I'm not making a mistake, he was thirteen (13), fourteen (14) or fifteen (15).

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane, is it also not true that you've subsequently established that this boy's name was in fact Willie Frans Strydom?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, the incidents you've been relating to this morning are the incidents which you conducted in Ermelo, is that correct, in the township surrounding Ermelo?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: And can you remember any other incidents that you were involved in in Ermelo other than those that you've mentioned?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: No, there are no other incidences that I was involved.