Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct, that's what I thought.   These two were from Komatipoort.   When I realised that there were police there, immediately I was taken by the hospital staff to theatre.    When I gained consciousness, I realised that my foot was cuffed.    I didn't say anything.   Later, at about eight o'clock, I'm not sure of the time, I think it was about eight, nine o'clock, the superintendent came, he told me he was the hospital superintendent and he told me that there were police outside and he told me that they were there to take me to Nelspruit.   I refused.   I think we had a conversation with the superintendent for about an hour, but what I've realised is that whatever I was discussing with him, he was going outside and tell the policemen that I was refusing to go with the police to Nelspruit.   There was another guy who was a male nurse, and there were also two sisters.   I told them, whilst the superintendent had gone outside, that I wasn't going to go to Nelspruit and they supported me, they said yes, I mustn't go to Nelspruit, and they said to me I must refused from the superintendent to be taken to Nelspruit.   And then I said to them if eventually I'll be taken forcefully, they must report to ANC that I've been taken by the police and the superintendent from the hospital, because I may disappear and not be found ever again.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose, Mr Black?   Is there anything that turns around this portion of Mr Sambo's evidence?

MR BLACK: No, I don't think so at all.

CHAIRPERSON: If there is, please come to our assistance, because we do not want any evidence that's not relevant to the offences for which he has applied for amnesty.

MR BLACK: Right.   Mr Sambo... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Come to our rescue.

MR BLACK: Ja.   Mr Sambo, this is what happened afterwards.  The committee is only concerned about what you thought and your suspicions and your fears at the time of the commission of the offence.   What took place in the hospital, nothing happened to you there, except that you suspected that the superintendent was reporting to the police, is that all?

VOICE SAMBO: Nothing else, except for what happened at home, and I've already explained what happened at home.

MR BLACK: Right.   You've also gone further in your affidavit, on page 14 of the record, you relate an incident that took place, in paragraph 17 of that, and we don't need to go into detail there.   This is that in 1993 at one stage you were taken by Tonga police who had been sent to Weitz, and they didn't take you to the Tonga Police Station, but they took you to Nelspruit office and there they sent your brother and your father back with them, although you were prepared to go along voluntarily in your own car, they said, "Come in our kombi".   Do you remember that, without going into - do you confirm that?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, I don't want that evidence to be led before this committee.

MR BLACK: No, I'm just trying to conclude the aftermath.   And that's where you were accused of shooting Ben in Ermelo, etcetera, okay?   Do you remember that?

VOICE SAMBO: Yebo.

MR BLACK: Okay.   Now we won't go into that detail.   You then carry on, we're coming to a conclusion, on page 15, that you were sent to Graskop at one stage and you were there, you didn't realise that you were going to stand trial, but you had to stand trial and you were given pro Deo counsel by the Court, you didn't have a chance to contact your lawyers?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Yes.   And at all times when you were asked to come along and co-operate, either at the police station or to go to the court, you did so on your own accord and voluntarily?

VOICE SAMBO: Would you please repeat that?

MR BLACK: After the incident relating to the shooting at your home and the killing of Mr Van der Spuy, on occasions you were asked to come to Tonga, and at Tonga, on the last occasion, you were told to go to Graskop, not to stand trial but to sort out something about the inquest report, and at all times did you co-operate and act voluntarily?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Because, if I may just read out, and I think it was agreed, I just want to read the statement here that you've put in your typed statement, and it reads as follows
"On this fateful day, I acted with a bona fide and genuine belief that the attack on me was a purely political one, aimed at eliminating me by the security forces, as they were known to kill and eliminate opponents of the apartheid regime."

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Then it goes on to say that
"This is evident from the disappearances of many MK cadres and which a few former security forces have applied for amnesty for their deeds."

CHAIRPERSON: How would he know how many security policemen have applied for the disappearance of how many AK soldiers?

MR BLACK: Mr Sambo, without going into the numbers of people who've disappeared and the number of security police who were involved, how is it that you are aware of the fact that certain security forces members had applied for amnesty in respect of the disappearance of MK cadres, how do you know that they've applied for amnesty?

VOICE SAMBO: Since the TRC had started, I've been following it through the radios and newspapers, and the ANC as well, they've been telling me, that's how I came to know that there are policemen who are applying for amnesty.   I don't know if I understand your question very well.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, basically what I'm saying is that this is sheer speculation on your behalf, because not everyone is aware of how many policemen have applied for the disappearances of how many MK soldiers.   We ourselves working for the amnesty committee are unaware of that.   Until the process has been concluded, nobody can speculate whether people have applied for as many as the disappearance of MK soldiers from the security forces, and that information is not relevant to this application in any event.

MR BLACK: Right.   Okay, if I could continue, you add there in this paragraph, I'm just reading the words that were stated in your affidavit, it states there
"It's my submission that you acted in the bona fide, acted in good faith, bona fide, in furtherance of a political struggle waged by my organisation, which was still a liberation movement at the time, although negotiations were still going on."

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: And then do you stand by your evidence that at the time of the incident in question, and that is that the shooting of Mr Van der Spuy, you were on the firm belief that this was a political assassination plot to kill you?

VOICE SAMBO: I still believe so.

MR BLACK: And that these men had been sent there after the soldiers had cleared the place of ammunition for the purposes of carrying out an assassination on you because of your political beliefs?

VOICE SAMBO: That's true.

MR BLACK: Now, in conclusion, do you say that - and if I may just elaborate a little bit on that - and this belief, did it come about because of all the evidence we've now heard and which is on paper relating to the harassment by security police and the activities, political activities, in which you took part in?

VOICE SAMBO: I know a lot about security branch, and also I was told by people or members of the police that they wanted to kill me.   The person who explained to me made it clear to me he was a policeman and he was working for security branch, he came to my house.

MR BLACK: Is that after the incident?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: And he confirmed that this was an attempt to kill you?