Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-15

CHAIRPERSON: Who is next Mr Obose?

MR OBOSE: ...(indistinct) pages 86 - 91.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  86 - 91.

MR OBOSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: (sworn states)

MR OBOSE: Mr Ndioko, you are a captain in the South African Police Services, is that correct?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR OBOSE: You are a captain in the South African police services is that correct?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR OBOSE: You know this application relates to the 22nd and the 23rd March 1994, is that correct?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR OBOSE: Did you go to this meeting at Bisho police college?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: No, I did not attend the first meeting, but after some time when I heard that there were police that were held hostage I went there as a public relations officer.

MR OBOSE: When you received this news, where were you?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: I was in my office at Bisho.

MR OBOSE: At about what time did you go to the meeting?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: I cannot be that certain but I think it was between 1 and 2.

MR OBOSE: When you got to the meeting, what was the mood like in the hall or even outside?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: The people were singing freedom songs.  There were officers who were at the stage and the other members and they were singing, they were in that mood.

MR OBOSE: Now, what did you then do?  Did you associate yourself with this or did you decide that you won't be party to this singing?

MR OBOSE: I associated myself with this.

MR OBOSE: Doing what, specifically?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: When I arrived there I assessed the situation.  I met with two to three people trying to inquire what was happening and then I realised that it was about overthrowing Brig Gqozo's government and I gave my assistance with all I had.  I also formed a part of a delegation that was going to Brig Gqozo's place and I was also a part of a delegation in the morning that was summoned to the Embassy in King William's Town, that was the following day.  All the time during this process I was not far from the stage.

MR OBOSE: Did you actually participate in the meeting, give instructions, pose questions, raise issues?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, I was assisting in certain issues, though I was not giving any instructions.

MR OBOSE: Now, you were part of the delegation to go to Brig Gqozo to do what?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: The police as it is already mentioned here, some people were appointed to go and call Brig Gqozo to come and address the police.  That is how I got to Brig Gqozo's place.  I was in that delegation.

MR OBOSE: Did you find Brig Gqozo?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, that is correct.

MR OBOSE: What happened at his house?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: We got into his house and we waited for a moment and he came to talk to us.  Just before we could say anything, he expressed his disappointment, disappointed by the police and soldiers to such an extent that he decided to step down.  That's what I can remember.

MR OBOSE: Now you were also part of a delegation that went to the Embassy the following morning.  Why was it deemed necessary that there be such a delegation?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Because we got information, though I cannot say today who gave us that information, that all the departments police should have representatives at the meeting that was going to be held at the Embassy where issues were to be discussed, issues around Brig Gqozo's resigning and the way forward.  I was appointed, myself and Col Mbi, to go there and represent them in that meeting.  That is what we did.

MR OBOSE: What was the nature of this meeting?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: This meeting was a meeting of the representatives from all the labour unions who were existing at the time and representatives from different departments and the other people that I do not know, but the chairperson was Mr Smuts Ngonyama and Zen Pekas, those are the people that I can remember.

MR OBOSE: Did you see the following applicants in the meeting?  Mr P A Loni?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: What meeting?

MR OBOSE: At Bisho police college.

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, that it is correct.

MR OBOSE: L C Kamana?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: A K Mfene?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes, I saw him.

MR OBOSE: L Moleshe?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: K N Potwana?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: I am not sure about the name, perhaps if I can see him I will be able to identify him.

MR OBOSE: Okay. V S Sibuqashe?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: N S Toto.

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: M C Nqinana?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: B M Yoyo?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: N Z Kolele?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes

MR OBOSE: D Simangwe?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: N Ndoko?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: I am not sure about him, but perhaps if I can see him I'll be able to identify him.

MR OBOSE: M W Peteni?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: And S S Golo?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes.

MR OBOSE: So they were part of this singing and goings on in that meeting?

SIBONGILE NDIOKO: Yes that is correct.

MR OBOSE: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR OBOSE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nompozolo, any questions?

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you, no questions Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Collett, any questions?

MS COLLETT: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mapoma, any questions?

MR MAPOMA: No questions, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Panel, any questions?
I assume you wouldn't have any re-examination Mr Obose.

MR OBOSE: No thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndioko, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR OBOSE: Mr Chairman I will call M W Peteni.