Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

MKHANGELI MATOMELA: Something that I will ask the Commission to do, I am just going to repeat what the Chairperson has said.  The policemen who had done these things in the past must come forward. They must come and tell all the things that they used to do.  This is their chance. Especially now, because there is also amnesty.  At the time we knew that they were just tools of the system, especially the Black ones.  Because they were the ones who were the active tools to beat us up.  We used to know that they were just doing this so that they can get praise from their bosses. We know
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that they were sent by their seniors.  They were acting against instructions. We even know their names now.  They must come forward, especially those ones who used to beat us up. They must say that they were sent by whoever sent them.  Perhaps this will even end up to Kaiser Mantanzima. We know that we were being beaten for this liberation, but we do understand their position.  Our parents know what we went through.  They had peace in their hearts. We were not fighting against individuals, we were fighting against the system. We are ready to forgive, but they must just come forward.  They must come forward to the Commission before they are named.  But now if they don't come, we are going to mention them in the Commission.  I think that is the first most important thing.
 Secondly, there are people who have really suffered here, especially Mr Peter King.  I know that he died after he was released, but isn't there anything that the Commission can do for his family. I understand that he has very small children, but now because of the struggle he died and his children are suffering now. If the Commission can try anything, even if it is the State who will do this, just to give them the necessary support.
 Thirdly, I have now my personal request.  There was a tape-recorder that was confiscated by the Transkeian police. I want it back.  Even those cassettes that they confiscated, I want them back.  They have much value to me, because I am the one who took the recordings, I am the one who dubbed the cassettes. We used to listen to stories from our grandparents at the time.  I used to tape these stories from my grandparents at the beginning of the cassettes and then later in the cassette, then I would dub the real thing. I
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want all those, even my books.  All those political documents that I had, those belong to me.  They must bring all those things back. I have already forgiven them, they must just bring back everything that belongs to me.

YASMINE SOOKA: I think that we hear your request and I am sure that we will, in the same way that you are saying that you want these people to come forward, before you name them, I think we in the Commission would like them to come forward as well, freely, and to use this opportunity. I think the difficult question is in relation to whether the Transkei police will still have the things that they took away from you.  But the investigation unit will probably try and see what they can do about that. In terms of Mr Peter King, I am sure the Chairperson would be able to do something in terms of that.
 I would like to thank you for telling your story and I will hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: (Speaker's mike not on).

MEMBER OF PANEL: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I only have a comment more than question. I am struck by the fact that you were detained in the Transkei, but then you were kept and you served your term in the Eastern Cape, in East London.  Even your torture was done in East London.  But now what I am wondering, was done in the Umtata Supreme Court.  But now this also gives evidence that the security police of the Transkei at the time was working together with the South African security. This is evident that there was collaboration between the Transkei and the South African Police Services at the time.

MKHANGELI MATOMELA: Yes, Commissioner, this is the whole truth.  Even though Transkei was independent, but in fact
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effectively, everything was done through South Africa. This independence didn't really mean anything.  The police service of Transkei and the police service of South Africa were working together, even though Transkei was so-called independnet. I know many people in the Transkei were tortured by the boers and they would come and we would see them.  Even the Transkeian police were not so clever.  So they were using especially the South African boers.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Mr Matomela, in the light of the testimony you have given this afternoon, concerning the manner in which you were treated by the police, in particular the security division of the police in both the then Transkei Republic and South Africa, do you perhaps have any views to express on the question of a promotion policy in the police force?

MKHANGELI MATOMELA: Thank you, Commission.  We are having a big problem. You know what is called the transition, it really causes problems.  It affects us even psychologically.  But we do accept it because our organisation is also involved in our discipline from the organisation, is very important to us.  We are still trying to build a new South Africa.  But the whole, the big problem now is those people who used to torture people like that, and the same people are now still in high official ranks in the prison service.  But those people need to be transformed themselves. If they are not transformed, how are they going to transform the whole service.
 Now if a person has a high rank, then that person must be able to hold together that department. I feel that these people need to be transformed themselves.  They need to be changed.  So that those people can now use their skills, 
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because they don't really have experience.  The only experience that they have is the experience of torture.  Now somtimes we are compelled to accept certain compromises because we didn't defeat their enemy militarily. Sometimes  we just keep quiet and do not say anything.  But those things are still in our minds.

MEMBER OF PANEL: We thank you, Mr Matomela.  The testimony you have given Mr Matomela here, has really touched our souls and our hearts very deeply.
 The Chairperson of this Commission usually says, he usually likes to pause after a testimony like this one and reflect on our country. Even now I am going to call you a young man, because you are younger than me, to call young men of your integrity, you know to speak of forgiveness after suffering the way you have suffered, is very touching  Also, even more touching to me is the way you have not thought of yourself.  (Speaker's mike not on) ... who have suffered together with you.  We live a world that is very selfish, where people are thinking only about themselves in moments like this. The fact that you have asked whilst we must get your tape-recorder back, but you are more concerned about somebody else, who, in your opinion, is in a more painful and needier situation than you.  This has really touched us.  Thank you for your witness and thank you for showing the integrity, the statemanship that you have displayed for us.
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