Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  It is worth mentioning that in that point in time, 1992 November or let me say, right from June, that was the time marked by a high level of tension between the people and the security forces and that was at the height of the conflict brigadier Gqozo and the ANC.
	And subsequent the that the apartheid system reinforced Gqozo through providing him assistance, we noticed the deployment of the SADF and if I remember very well, they had three patrol bases, one right in town, one in Zwelitsha, one behind Xnesha which served, I mean which used to take some small detachment and do mobile patrols in Thembasa, Thembisa.
	So given that heavy presence of the security forces, we had to get rid of the car as soon as possible.  But furthermore, when we took the car, we initially intended to drive it as far as Queenstown and just drop it near a police station with the key in because we knew that at the end of the day the owner was going to get it.  
	Now we drove off and as we drove off Thembasa right to King William's Town - brigadier Gqozo had what was it called? a peace force, a certain paramilitary click that wore a black uniform, if I remember very well, so as soon as we were on the national road we were noticed by these gentlemen.  And also there was another chap driving a Monza, it was part of the apartheid spies that was stationed or deployed in the Ciskei system, the chap was driving a Monza and he was staying in Thembisa.  
	He spotted the car and I think I can confirm because he could provide a little bit of information to his bosses the SAP, so those chaps could not give us enough chance to do as we have planned.  In fact they tried to stop us, we couldn't stop and we were not armed so we had to drive very fast, get into one of the locations, I think it was Mzanzi location.
	Then we disappeared away from their scene and went back to Thembasa and then when we went back to Thembasa, ...[inaudible] so that he must assist us, I wanted him to drive the car and then we organised, we armed ourselves for any eventuality because it seemed that contact was inevitable at that time.  
	And we were not prepared to be caught, those were one of the principles we agreed upon as a unit, the ...[indistinct] detachment, so under those operational circumstances we went into the Alice line and we passed Alice there was a hastily prepared roadblock by the SAP.  	I mean the - it was pretty obvious it was a roadblock hastily prepared for a specific reason and I mean, we were the guilty party but they let us pass through them, but as we passed they must have realised that okay, these are the people that we are looking for.  	I mean the purpose of a hastily prepared roadblock, it's for a specific reason.  If the police want a certain vehicle, they have the registration, what, what, what, they would make it just a hastily prepared roadblock for that specific purpose, so it was very clear that they were after us, they tried to chase us.  	We went as far as Fort Beaufort and then on the way to Grahamstown we saw that they were closing up and there was a police station in front, I think it was Tamaga I don't know, but we decided no, there is no way you must dispose the car right here.  
	Then we went back with the Rover, back to Thembasa and we passed SAP right this way.  So those were the circumstances why we couldn't stick to our undertaking.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you just told the Committee that you disposed the car, how did you dispose the car?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  We got it off the road and I think the terrain was slopey and then we opened the petrol tank and we had some ...[indistinct] with us, we just ignited one and threw it in through the window inside the vehicle and off we went.

CHAIRPERSON: But I understood you to say that: "on the way to Grahamstown they were catching up and we then decided we had to abandon the car", surely it would have drawn their attention to you immediately when you started burning a car by the side of the road while they were catching up with you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Can you come again?

CHAIRPERSON: As I understood your evidence, you said that after going through the roadblock they tired to chase you and you went to Fort Beaufort and on the way to Grahamstown they were catching up, so you could see them if they were catching up, and you then decided to abandon the car, you pushed it by the side of the road and set it on fire.  Surely this must have drawn the police's attention to you if they were coming along behind you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: They were quite a distance from us, that is what you must understand.  Because the road was at an angle, this way, so when the siren is on you actually see from a distance when they are actually on ...[inaudible] yes, on the right.  Okay, you hear the siren going on and you can actually judge the distance, how far they are from you.  It's normal, you ...[indistinct]

ADV SANDI: Are you able to estimate Mr Xundu, the distance between yourselves and those who were chasing after you?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: It was not less than five kilometres.

ADV SANDI: Was it at night or during the day?  I do not recall what you said on that.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: It must about past seven or seven, round about there, in the evening.

MR MBANDAZAYO: May I proceed Mr Chairman?
	Mr Xundu, you can - I'm going to paragraph 27 Mr Chairman, I'm almost through.
	Can you confirm what is written in paragraph 27 of  your affidavit, that it contains what you have written down yourself?