Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-05-12

ADV DE JAGER: When you took these articles - for what purpose did you take it?

MR MAGODA: I kept them as that was the order.

ADV DE JAGER: What was your motive in killing Mr Fourie, partaking in the killing of Mr Fourie?

MR MAGODA: At that time we were involved in the struggle, fighting for our land.   It was not because I hated Mr Fourie, it was a time of war.

ADV DE JAGER: But what was your political motive, what do you want to achieve by killing Mr Fourie?

MR MAGODA: The objective was to get the land that was taken from us by the Boers, they removed us from fertile areas like the farms, they took this land from us where they started farming.  Furthermore we could not continue with our farming activities since we were removed from those farms.

ADV DE JAGER: So is it correct then that you wanted to scare the people or to chase them away from the farm so that you could reoccupy the farms?

MR MAGODA: According to the statement that we have already put, as there was a call to establish the great storm from Commander (indistinct).

ADV DE JAGER: Yes, what was the great storm, what did he actually tell you, what was the operation great storm, what was he trying to achieve?

MR MAGODA: It was intended to get the land to its rightful owners, the Africans.

ADV DE JAGER: And on going there, am I then correct it was a war to get back the land?

MR MAGODA: Yes, that is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: You didn't intend to take property to weapons from Mr Fourie?

MR MAGODA: We wanted to get their firearms  ... (tape ends) ... or other arms and ammunitions.

ADV DE JAGER: So you had two objectives actually, to get weapons and to get the land?  Or did you only have one objective, what was the position?

MR MAGODA: The weapons were meant to be used when we fought for the African land.

ADV DE JAGER: Why did you take his car?

MR MAGODA: Those were the things we needed, we didn't have any means of transport, we didn't have money, we didn't have weapons.

ADV DE JAGER: And was the car taken for your own transport and your co-applicants' transport or what did you want to do with the car?

MR MAGODA: The car could have been sold because as I have said we didn't have money so that we can continue with our struggle, we needed the money.  To continue with our struggle for liberation and so that we have the money which we needed.

ADV DE JAGER: And the watches?

MR MAGODA: We just took at random articles that could generate money for us so that we could continue with the struggle.

ADV DE JAGER: And who was responsible for selling the articles?  Would you sell it yourself, those that were with you or why did you divide the articles between you?

MR MAGODA: We didn't do these things out of our own will, this was a command and we towed the line.  We could not divide the articles amongst ourselves for our own benefit.  The Commander knew where to sell the things or what to do with these articles.

ADV DE JAGER: And would you hand over all the articles to the Commander?

MR MAGODA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Right, thank you.  We will now adjourn to 09h30 tomorrow.  Well, 09h30 is a little flexible, we are having a distinguished visitor at nine o'clock, we hope to be ready by 09h30 tomorrow morning.
	Could you be sure that the applicants are here by 09h30?  Thank you.
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