Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-26

YASMINE SOOKA: Can I sort of stop you there because you have given us such a lot of information and I just want to make sure that we have got it correctly.  If I hear what you are saying you indicate that you were arrested in Botswana, is that correct?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were you arrested by the South African Police or by the Botswana Police?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I cannot understand your question, are you saying I was in Botswana?

YASMINE SOOKA: I am asking you were you arrested in Botswana?  Are you able to hear me clearly?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Yes I can hear you.  I was in South Africa.

YASMINE SOOKA: You were in South Africa, I see.  How many of your were there at the time?  How many of you were together when they got hold of you?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: There in Messina we were about five.  Some of them who came from Botswana joined us in Messina. They were arrested first, we were arrested later.  There in Messina when we got arrested they took us to different places.  The first time they took me to Driekop.  It is somewhere there in the Northern Province.  They arrested me in the morning and then the following morning they took us to this Driekop Prison.  They took those from Tembisa, Soweto, Johannesburg and some of the comrades from Brakpan.  Then they said those from Tembisa must come and collect us from that place.

YASMINE SOOKA: At Driekop were you tortured or was anything done to you, or you were simply kept there?
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HENRY RAMAHUTA: I was just detained there at Driekop.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long were you detained at Driekop?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I was arrested there in the night and then in the morning they collected us from Driekop.  And then they took me then to Louis Trichardt.  I only knew one of these policemen who worked with those who were interrogating me and assualting me.

YASMINE SOOKA: And this policeman do you know what his name was?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I cannot remember well if he is Sithole.  There was one who was working with him.  This one who was a security policeman was Sithole.  I think he was also Sithole this other one.  I am not sure about their names.

YASMINE SOOKA: How many of you were then kept at Louis Trichardt?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I was alone.

YASMINE SOOKA: And was it at Louis Trichardt that you were tortured?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: That is so.

YASMINE SOOKA: What was done to you?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: They handcuffed me, my hands and legs.  My hands were brought in front of me and my legs were brought to my back and they had a broomstick to bind both my legs and hands then they could find anything while searching through me.  At the time they took photos of us.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was this the 'helicopter' treatment that they called, when they put the stick between your arms?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I do not remember well what they referred to this treatment as.  Where I was taken for detention they will come in the morning and during the day looking for some further information concerning those who were studying at
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Turfloop, and those who have just arrived from Zambia, asking me about them.  I was not known to these people, or they were not known to me.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long were you kept at Louis Trichardt?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I do not understand the question.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long did they keep you at Louis Trichardt?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: About a week.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you were then taken to the Kempton Park Police Station?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Yes that is.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you then mentioned that you were taken to the Rabasoto Police Station, is that right?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: After two days we were asked to say what our activities were and with whom were we doing these things.  Some of us did say what they did before they got arrested, however, my case was not similar to theirs.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long were you kept at Rabasoto?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Just that night. I was brought here on two occasions during the night, and then in the morning they would take me back to Kempton Park.

YASMINE SOOKA: And how long was this before you were in fact charged?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: It took the whole year and about some few months.

YASMINE SOOKA: And where were you kept during all this time?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: The cell where I was detained in it was in Phalaborwa.  I don't know the people who I was subjected to at Phalaborwa.

YASMINE SOOKA: And during this time were you tortured again?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: A charge was laid against me ever since I was not arrested until 1990.
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YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me, you said you were kept there for a whole year and what were you charged with when you were finally brought to court?
TAPE ENDS

HENRY RAMAHUTA: ...just inside the police station but behind the police station.  He told us that we must cooperate with the police otherwise we will not come back from Kempton Park.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did Vusi give the activists any hand-grenades?  Did Vusi supply the activists in Tembisa with any kind of weapons or hand-grenades?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: No.

YASMINE SOOKA: But he was working with the activists as well.

HENRY RAMAHUTA: This White policeman were putting Vusi and others in front and that they should identify us by names and about our residential addresses and where we attended school.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me how old you were when all of this was happening?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I was 22 years old then.

YASMINE SOOKA: What happened after you were released in 1990?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I don't hear well.

YASMINE SOOKA: What happened to you after you were released in 1990?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: After I was released my health was affected and I used to go to the General Hospital for treatment, up to now.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were you able to complete your studies?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I didn't try.  I am unable to study for a long time and my eyes are painful at times.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was all of this a result of all the beatings and TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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the torture that you got?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: And the whole body, where they were kicking me, I was a little bit better after we have been released.

YASMINE SOOKA: Tell me how you support yourself now.

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Since I started medical treatment from 1990 I was under the care of my mother and she has since died in 1994.  Then I have a disability grant as from 1995 and I am not able to study further.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mentioned in your statement that at this point in time one of the policemen lives in the same section that you do, is that right?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: Yes that's true.

YASMINE SOOKA: And this worries you.

HENRY RAMAHUTA: There is one person whom we were together with at school, we didn't think badly about him, it happens that we are staying in the same township he was trying to threaten me and intimidate me.  When he sees me with another person he will tell that person that what is best you see from this person, and that person would care less about what he says and then they would have a little fight about that.

YASMINE SOOKA: Have you received any counselling at all for any of the problems that you have?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I don't hear you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you receive any counselling for the after-effects of your stay in prison, in detention and for the torture?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I undergo medical treatment.  I think it's a psychiatrist's clinic or hospital.

YASMINE SOOKA: How often do you go?

HENRY RAMAHUTA: I go there once a month.  Every Thursday we go for a certain counselling club.
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YASMINE SOOKA: Do you feel better after that?  Do you feel that it helps you deal with what you've experienced?