Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-06-09

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Lennox, do you know what your hospital fees cost, do you know more or less how much you had to pay the hospital for your operations and for your rehabilitation?

LENNOX SIGWELA: The hospital used to send accounts, but I told them straight I was not going to pay the hospital because I was injured at the hands of the government officials. So I told them I wasn't going to pay a cent for that. So they still send those accounts. I just ignore them.   I told them that I don't have money, because the cent that I got from the grant is just enough for me to buy clothes for myself.  The hospital doesn't help me. I have to hire a car to go to the hospital to go back home, even the watch that I have I must buy myself. So I told the hospital that I was not, I would rather go to jail, but I will never, I will never, never, never pay them, I have told them that.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you very much. I don't have any more questions. I will hand over to the Chair. Thanks.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you, Glenda.  Anyone else? Piet Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Lennox, only one question for the record. Are you married, do you have children to support?

LENNOX SIGWELA: I am not married. I have not married, I have no children. I am only supporting the children at home, my sisters' and brothers'.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Piet and thank you, Glenda.
Lennox, can you tell us briefly, how you feel now, how do you feel about coming here?  When you think about what happened to you, how do you feel?

LENNOX SIGWELA: It is not clear to whether, we are struggling, we are struggling. The children at my home are suffering for new school uniform, for clothes. That is why I will never, although I have accepted this, I will never, I will never forget what happened, because when I look at the way we are struggle at home, sometimes I feel like committing suicide. Then I decide against it, when I think of the people who depend on me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Are you the eldest?

LENNOX SIGWELA: Yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So we understand how this should irritate you, because as the first-born you must be the one who is the supporter of the family. I just want to - unfortunately he was not sworn in. I would like to - could you swear him in.

LENNOX SIGWELA: (Father of L Sigwela). (Duly sworn, states).

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: As people were talking about those days, it was to be described as a fight between comrades and adults, parents. You are a parent and here is your child next to you and you are also there.  Can you just describe to us, just clearly, what exactly, what exactly, why is that it that it was said that parents and kids are fighting because this fight about - between parents and children, how did it start?

LENNOX SIGWELA: Thank you. Thank you, Chairperson. I can start this way. As a resident at Crossroads, from 1974, and we moved in 1982, if I am not mistaken, to New Crossroads. As we had some leaders who was Mr Nongwasi and Mr Memani.  When we moved from the stand there was already some conflict which caused people to stay away from their houses.  So much so that that was the reason why if I do not move from Crossroads to the brick-built houses I may lose my life, because I was with linked with a committee with Mr Mbongwane which prevented people from going to the brick-built houses. Even when the first batch of residents to these houses and they were paying for water, I felt that if I didn't move from the shack it would be risky for my life.  Because it was clear that we are not forced to pay for water.  Because the houses at Crossroads were asked for by us and therefore we didn't think we should pay.  And then we were moved to New Crossroads and then we got to New Crossroads, as parents we were split into two groups.  There were some who were still loyal to Mr Mbongwane and that's where the conflict   and division started.   There were people who were saying we can't be loyal to Mbongwane any more, we must start afresh because we are in brick-built houses.  Therefore we can't be loyal to those old instructions, and that is where the conflict started amongst the people who lived in New Crossroads.  In 1983 when some people died, about eight or seven, if I am not mistaken, because of this conflict.
 I am going to leave that.  And then came this time for parents versus their children.  And then it was reported that parents were attacking the kids or the kids attacking the parents.  So went the rumour. 
 But it was clear, when you explained as a parent that you didn't support UDF, you were taken by the youth and some parents who were members of the youth, that you were a supporter of Mbongwane.  It was not easy to support Mbongwane and not support it, and then I was confused at that stage because I didn't know which side I was to be on. The first patrol when we were taken out of our houses.  Unfortunately I was not there. I had come back late from work and until the weekend, and then I was off during the weekend. I was forced there to be present in a patrol as a resident, because if you didn't join the patrol, you were identified as supporting a particular side.  At that time UDF was represented in all, it combined all the townships in the Western Cape.  There was no exception.  Indeed, kids would come from all directions. What I noticed was that even here at New Crossroads, there is a committee which belonged to Mbongwane. So when I noticed the fights and I raised this with the parents, I asked how they felt towards this and some parents no, it is the kids.  And so I was affected that because lots of men died in that fight, because they were being taken from the hospital as if they were being discharged, only to find that they were being brought back to be killed. I noticed that all the people who were committee members, they were not there.  You would see just one when there was a break in the fighting.  Indeed, a person who from the government was affected, I think Rev Mfenyana did mention this.  When I left - the police, when the police left with this man, I asked is it true what this white person is saying.  No one answered me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: What did this white person say?

LENNOX SIGWELA: This white man was saying be careful, the kids are coming.  At that time the roads at KTC were closed to the house, and when these kids were chased, they would run into the shacks and then it would be easy for their fathers to be injured.   And then they would come out and then disappear into the shacks at KTC.  It was not easy for other parents to attack other parents' houses. That is when we as parents got injured. And then I said this is not right.
 So much so, I faced Mgoba who was a big committee member of Mr Mbongwane, who used to - and like my son said, there was a rumour that I was a councillor.  I asked this neighbour of mine how do you say we should join a fight, but you are not there.  And then he said no, we are going to fetch support from Crossroads.  I said how can you go to Crossroads, but you are chasing the kids, but you are not here.  But we don't know what is the reason, and it is clear that the fight is between you and the kids.  So why don't you explain to us what you are fighting about with these children so that we should know what the reason is.  And apparently this was too difficult a question for him. So we clashed and then I withdrew, because he is the one who spread the rumour that I was a member of the council.  So I decided to withdraw, because he was not answering me. 
 So he left, because, saying that he was going to call people.  When he left I got a chance to say to other people. I say people, maybe people should kill me in my house.  Because I can't take part in this fight, because I don't know what the reason is, I never had a quarrel with these people.