Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

WITNESS:   The lawyer told us that he was shot in Guguletu.  Then he ran to a certain house.  Then he was shot and fell down.  When they sent photos, I was able to see he didn't have a moustache when he left.  Then they brought other photos.  These photos were able to show that it's him.  They were brought by a certain police called Mogoregi and Hugo. Nothing was mentioned to you about the fact that a police grenade was used and also the attack of the councillor's house?   ---   I didn't hear.  Rampai didn't tell us anything about that.

PROF MAGWAZA: No, it was just a question to help the investigation.  And what I would like to say in conclusion is that you are in pain but we don't want you to leave with a picture of a person who is not strong.  Each and every person who comes in here to tell us the story about the loss of their own children, they are very strong people indeed.  They's stronger than us because they lost their children.  They're still prepared to come and tell us their story.  They're still even living.  So I must say you're a very strong person.  I would like you to leave with that message from us.  Even if you cry, doesn't mean you are weak.  We respect you for your strength.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Regina?

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mrs Baloi, in your statement there is a letter which was said is from Mangou Town Council when there was a request for exhumation of the corpse.

WITNESS:   I don't know of that letter.

MRS GCABASHE: Didn't you have a suspicion to exhume the body?

WITNESS:   No, because my child has been buried in my house.   You say the photos were brought by Mogoregi.  Who is this Mogoregi?   ---   He was a policeman.  Then they said he's no more a policeman, he's now a minister of religion.

MRS GCABASHE: Where was he working?

WITNESS:   He was working about here in Tabong. Where is he a minister for?   ---   I don't know where he's working.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you know his church?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know his church.

MRS GCABASHE: Is he still staying at Tabong?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.

MRS GCABASHE: I hear.  I just wanted to get that explanation about your statement.

CHAIRPERSON: As I've already said, Mama, thank you very much for coming forward.  We'll do all what we can do which is within our powers to assist you in the investigation about the death of your child.  Thank you very much from coming.

WITNESS:   I also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Now, the last witness for the day is Alina Malef Mofokeng.  That's the last one for the day.
EXCHANGE OF GREETINGS BETWEEN CHAIRMAN AND WITNESS

CHAIRPERSON: Before we get into this matter can you stand please so that you can take an oath that what you are going to say here is true, helped by God.

ALINA MALEF MOFOKENG: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  The person how is going to lead you in this process now is Mr Mdu Dlamini.

WITNESS:   Thank you, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: Good afternoon, Mama Mofokeng.

WITNESS:   Good afternoon, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: Can I start by confirming the information that we have on our records?  You live at 2134 Seutlwadi Street in Tabong township?

WITNESS:   That's correct.  That's 2134 Seutlwadi Street.

MR DLAMINI: And you were born on the 25th of August 1950?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR DLAMINI: You are 46 years of age?

WITNESS:   It's true.

MR DLAMINI: But you are coming to tell us about your son who left?

WITNESS:   It's true.

MR DLAMINI: How is Pule?  When was he born?

WITNESS:   He was born in 1967.

MR DLAMINI: Besides Pule do you have other children?

WITNESS:   Yes, I had five children.  The daughter passed away when she was still very small.  I'm left with four boys.

MR DLAMINI: The father of the children - are you married?

WITNESS:  I'm a divorcee.

MR DLAMINI: Where is the ex-husband?

WITNESS:   He is around  Tabong.  He's staying somewhere.

MR DLAMINI: Does he know about the plight of Pule?

WITNESS:   We have lost contact with him but, you know, children as they grow up, they normally trace where their parents are.  He knows.

MR DLAMINI: And according to your statement Pule is now married with two children.

WITNESS:   It's true.  He's a married man.  He's got two children.

MR DLAMINI: How old are his children?

WITNESS:   The first one is 13 years old and the other one is 1 year, 3 months.

MR DLAMINI: Is the wife with you today, Pule's wife?

WITNESS:   Pule's wife is working.  She is the only one working in the family.  Pule is not working.

MR DLAMINI: I see.  And Pule couldn't come either.

WITNESS:   Pule's not feeling well especially this time.  He's in bed.

MR DLAMINI: Please convey our regard to Pule and our support and our best wishes as well as his family.

WITNESS:   I also want to say I thank God who protected Pule in a very unbelievable way.  People cannot believe their eyes and God is just protecting his family and he's protecting me.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you very much, and also we would like to convey our solidarity to your family as well, which is Pule's family.  Mrs Mofokeng, would you please tell us all the incidents starting from the 7th of June 1986 where at about 3.00am you were visited by ten police officers or men.

WITNESS:   It was on the 7th of June 1987.  It was about 3.00am when police knocked at my door and when they came they were making a lot of noise and they were harassing us. Just for the records, sorry, Mrs Mofokeng, was it 1986 or 1987?   ---   I think it was 1987 when this happened.  It was in 1987.

MR DLAMINI: All right, thank you.  Continue.

WITNESS:   When these policemen came in we were surprised because when they got into the house they called our names.  They knew all of us.  It was myself, Malifu, Mayaoule and they knew me by my name as well as my nephew, Patrick Tlokwa.  They knew everybody in the house and they knew my children's names.  When they came in they were actually harassing us and I didn't know that a firearm is a "vuurwapen" in Afrikaans.  I was asking them as to what they meant.  What is a "vuurwapen"?  And when they realised that I did not know what a "vuurwapen" is, they said that this white person was saying that I must take out guns which were possessed by my son because my son was a terrorist and I told them that I knew nothing about guns.  And they said I should get dressed up because they were going to take me to my son's girlfriend where my son was and that I was going to tell them where the guns were.  If I did not show them the guns, they were going to arrest me and they told me that I was going to remain in prison until such time that they got hold of my sons.  And at that time there was a certain woman from Lesotho who was visiting us at that time.  They bundled us into this police vans and we went to where Pule was and they said I should knock at the door and tell Pule to open the door.  When I knocked at the door and said Pule should open the door, Pule said to me, "I know that you are with the police.  You must go away and you must come back the following day at 9.00 so that you can talk to

MR DLAMINI: /me. We are