Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-26

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mathiba, good afternoon.

MR MATHIBA: I greet you, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: You have come with a lady who is sitting next to you.  Can you please introduce her to us?

MR MATHIBA: That is the person who knows exactly of what has happened.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is she?  Can you introduce us?

MR MATHIBA: Her name Magriet Mathiba, so she is also Mathiba.  She is my eldest brother's daughter.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mathiba, can I just clarify before we get into your statement.  Who made the statement, did you make the statement or did Ms Mathiba make the statement?

MR MATHIBA: Mrs Mathiba is the one who has made the statement.  So she is the one who was there at that time and seen what happened.  She was there.  So I will explain later.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mathiba, I am not trying to be difficult, please, but it is very important as to who has made the statement.  Did you make this, because we have your name on the statement, we don't have her name on the statement at all.  Did you make the statement to our statement-taker?

MR MATHIBA: Yes, I made the statement and from what I heard from Mrs Mathiba.  She has asked me to talk.
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CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, I think that clarifies it.  Mr Mathiba, we are - you are now living in Tigane, but we are going to talk about what happened on a farm called Doornkop farm.  Before I ask Mr Tom Manthata who is going to be helping you in telling your story, will you please stand to take the oath?

MOSEMANE PETRUS MATHIBA: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mathiba.

THOMAS MANTHATA: We thank you, Mr Mathiba and the mother who is there next to you? Is it Mathiba?

MR MATHIBA: Mathiba, that is Mathiba, Sir.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Can you tell us exactly about who you are, as  we want to know.

MR MATHIBA: I am the uncle.  The father to the deceased has died, so I am left with the mother. The mother of the person whom we have come here for, to ask the Commission to help us to find him.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What are you doing, what work do you do?

MR MATHIBA: I was working before, I was the driver Kalibihasi Hospital.  I am on pension now.

THOMAS MANTHATA: It is true that you do not have a lot of information but the little information you have will help us a lot.  What do you know?

MR MATHIBA: In May 1974 when I arrived at home I was told that Magaret left with Jan Drom.  They went to the hospital.
Jan Drom drove her with the car.  They were together with Margaret and they signed at Sebong. Jan Drom was there.  We didn't see him thereafter, since the last day at the hospital.  When I went back home they were sitting crying and I asked them as to what was happening.  They said the child has been taken to Sebong Hospital by Jan Drom and 
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Margaret was in their company.    We didn't hear anything thereafter and we didn't know his whereabouts since that day.  We hoped that Jan Drom will tell us the whole truth, because he was the person in charge of the farm.  Even today we are still shocked.  We do not know whether the child is still alive, whether the child is dead.  Nobody knows.  When I asked them they would say he is in one of the hospitals.  They do not tell us which hospital.  We remained in that belief that he is alive, he is in one of the hospitals, but we do not know which one.  We are here to request the Commission to force this rich man Jan Drom to tell us what happened to our child, because he was last seen with him when he took him to the hospital in Margaret's company.  That is where I will end.  
 I have the identity document, it was picked up by David Matiba.  This identity document was found in a rubbish bin, it was supposed to be burnt to ashes.  Now this domestic worker picked up this identity document and she gave it to David.  David gave it to the deceased's mother.  She confirmed that it was the deceased's identity document. We sill have the identity document. I have it with me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who is David?

MR MATHIBA: David is my sister's child.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was he working at the farm?

MR MATHIBA: Even today he is working at the farm. He is still working at the farm belonging to Jan Drom.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What is this domestic worker's name?

MR MATHIBA: It is Lebohang Johannes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Didn't David go to the hospital to see the patient?

MR MATHIBA: Margaret has the information, but she didn't go KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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to the hospital. Because she was a very energetic woman and she was working day in and day out, and she would work from morning till noon.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Now this David and the domestic worker, didn't they tell you that Drom had been to the hospital maybe?

MR MATHIBA: No.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Do you have hope that Drom might share a little information as to what happened to him?

MR MATHIBA: We do not know, because he doesn't speak to people.  But we hope that he will give us a piece of information.   He transported him with his van to Sebong Hospital. He should just tell us what happened to our child.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Don't you think that he just dropped him at the hospital on that day and he has never been to the hospital since that day?

MR MATHIBA: No, we don't think so.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How many hospitals have you been to, searching for this boy?

MR MATHIBA: We have been to Sebong Hospital.  Because I am a driver, at times I would go to Johannesburg and when I have time I will go to Johannesburg Hospital or General Hospital to search for him. Margaret told me that she even tried to go to different hospitals to trace him.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Haven't you been to the police with his identity document so that they can help you with the investigations, because seemingly they have his fingerprints?

MR MATHIBA: No, we haven't been to the police.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What about the identity document photo, don't you think that would be of assistance?

MR MATHIBA: No, I don't think so.  We didn't go to the
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police, we didn't even give them our identity document, because we thought that the farmer will give us the right information.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Do you think that it will be a waste of time to go to Drom?

MR MATHIBA: Because we can go to Drom and he would give us the same answer.  He would say no, I just transported him to the hospital. You know, it is a different case.  He didn't die in Drom's hands. We don't have evidence of that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How old was this child?

MR MATHIBA: I can't remember, he was very young.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was he the only son at home?

MR MATHIBA: No, he has got brothers at the farm.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Isn't there a way to investigate this matter, can't they approach the domestic workers, can't they investigate from Drom himself as to what happened?

MR MATHIBA: Not even one of them is in a position to investigate this matter further because they are so scared of Drom.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Do you know Drom's farm?

MR MATHIBA: Yes, it is called Doornkop and there is another one Driefontein.

THOMAS MANTHATA: He has two farms, hey?

MR MATHIBA: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Please do give us Drom's address and the names of his two farms so that we can investigate. I want to thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Fazel Randera?

DR RANDERA: Mr Mathiba, sorry, I just want to clarify a few things again for our records.  In the statement first of all you talk about October 1978.  But I thought I heard you say
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that the incident took place in May 1974?  Which is the right date?

MR MATHIBA: The date I got from the person who was working there, that it was in which year. Because he was not there. When his mother sent me to make a statement, she came yesterday to tell me the truth that, because he was with the White person that day.

DR RANDERA: May 1974, is that right?