Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-16

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning.  We want to start the proceedings.  For the record, it is Tuesday the 16th of November 1999.  It is the continuation of the sitting of the Amnesty Committee at the Durban Christian Centre.  The composition of the Panel will be apparent from the record.  The matter that we've got on the roll for today, is the amnesty application of Alex Bekhani Hlongwane, amnesty reference is AM5192/97.
	I'm going to ask the legal representatives to put themselves on record.  For the applicant, Mr Harkoo?

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  The name is Harkoo, initial R.  I appear for the applicant and I am assisted by Mrs Govender, her initial is G.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Harkoo.  Then the Leader of Evidence.

MR MAPOMA: Mr Mapoma, Leader of Evidence.  Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Yes, Mr Harkoo, do you want your client to be sworn in?

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman, just before we begin I just want to thank you for the indulgence that you've granted me shortly.  Very briefly, just to apprise the Members of the Committee, the applicant has been charged with robbery, attempted murder, unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.

CHAIRPERSON: Just go a bit slower.  He's charged with robbery you say.

UNKNOWN: Robbery, attempted murder, unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.  He has been sentenced to 10 years imprisonment for count 1, 5 years for count 2 and 2 years for counts 3 and 4, jointly.

CHAIRPERSON: 10 years for the robbery, 5 years for the attempted murder and what for the others?

UNKNOWN: 2 years for charges 3 and 4, jointly.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct - no microphone)

UNKNOWN: Unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition.

CHAIRPERSON: And which years was this and in which court?

UNKNOWN: This was in 1992, in Ladysmith.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct - no microphone)

UNKNOWN: Yes.  The applicant will state that at the time he was a member of a political organisation and his actions were such to assist the community and thereby for the aims of the organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: Which organisation is it?

UNKNOWN: He was a member of the ANC at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is that, which ...?

UNKNOWN: He was a member of the Self-Defence Unit, in Ladysmith.  May I now present the applicant?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you, Mr Harkoo.  Mr Hlongwane, can you hear the interpretation on your headset?  I'll ask you to please stand to take the oath.  Are your full names, Alex Bekhani Hlongwane?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may be seated.  Yes, Mr Harkoo?

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Hlongwane, would you tell the Members of the Committee, at the time that you were involved or charged with this crime for which you are now serving a term of imprisonment, were you a member of any organisation, any political organisation?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Yes, I was a member of the ANC.

UNKNOWN: What was your position in the organisation?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I did not have a position as such, but I was a member of the SDU.

UNKNOWN: The SDU, is that the Self Defence Unit within the organisation?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: You were charged with robbery, attempted murder, the unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunition.  Could you briefly tell the Members of the Committee the circumstances and the background and the reason relating to this incident.

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: In 1991, a war erupted between the ANC and IFP.  I was a member of the ANC.  Because of that reason there was a need for my organisation to come up with campaigns of protecting the community.  I was one of the people elected to become a member of the SDUs.

UNKNOWN: I didn't get that, did you say you were elected?  Can you repeat that?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: I said I was an ANC member and because of the violence in the area, there was a need to make ways and means of protecting the ANC members and the community.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.
	This violence that you are referring to, what violence is this?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: It was the war between the ANC and the IFP.  Those two groups were at war.

UNKNOWN: Why was it necessary for you to form this SDU, why didn't you just go to the police?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The police would be approached with regards to different crimes, but they would not assist us, instead they would side with the IFP.  So it became obvious that we could not approach them.

UNKNOWN: Ja, but how did the - sorry, Mr Harkoo.
	How did the police side with the IFP?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: For instance, when we were attacked they would not come to intervene or stop IFP members from attacking us, instead we will see them on the side of the IFP.  We would see their vehicles parked alongside the IFP members, but they would do nothing to stop those people from attacking us.

ADV BOSMAN: Can we just, Mr Harkoo, please get clarity on exactly where this took place.  Was your client living in Ladysmith in the township or where exactly did all this take place?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: At Section E at eZakheni township.

ADV BOSMAN: In Ladysmith?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Is eZakheni one of the townships that is around the Ladysmith area?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Pardon?  That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Could you tell us briefly what happened at this incident for which you were charged.

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: After my commander had given me instructions, we went to wait for the vehicle that was supposed to rob and when it did arrive we stopped the vehicle and because the gate was closed, we pointed our firearms at them and we told them that we wanted the money that they were carrying.  On hearing this they just sped off.  That is when we started firing and when we did so, one of the passengers or one of the persons in the vehicle was injured.  Thereafter we went and removed the money from the vehicle.  Afterwards we were arrested by the police on the same day.

UNKNOWN: Whereabouts were you arrested?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: It was near Peter's(?), but it was in an open veld.

UNKNOWN: This person who you say was injured, did you know him?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: No, I do not know him, but it was a white person.

UNKNOWN: You mentioned that you were instructed by your commander, who is this commander you're referring to?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Mr Mshishi Nzimande.

UNKNOWN: What was Mr Nzimande's position in the organisation?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: He was a member of the SDU.

UNKNOWN: Did he hold any specific position in the SDUs?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Yes, he was the person in charge, he was the chief of the SDUs.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Did you normally take instructions from Mr Mshishi Nzimande?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Now you also mentioned that you pointed a firearm.  Where did you get the firearm from?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: We had received them from the commander, Mr Mshishi Nzimande.

UNKNOWN: How many firearms did you have, or did you and your co-accused in that matter have with you?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: There were two small firearms and a knife.

UNKNOWN: Were all these weapons given to you by Mr Mshishi Nzimande?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: And what were your instructions?  You mentioned that you were instructed to rob the vehicle, what did you plan to do with the money?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: The money that was going to be robbed from that factory was going to be used towards the purchasing of firearms.  That is the information I received from the commander.

UNKNOWN: Who were the other persons that were involved with you?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: Andries Bheki Ntjali and Bongkosi Zulu.

UNKNOWN: Were they also members of the Self Defence Unit?

ALEX BEKHANI HLONGWANE: That's correct.