Human Rights Violation Hearings — Venda — 1996-10-04

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you, Mbiza.  Yes, giving evidence is not a problem.  They can just make the statements, then we shall process their statements, they would be given the treatment that any other statement has been given, whether people spoke to their statements or not.
 So you can tell them to get into the process of writing those statements.  Okay, you are talking about the problems that the ANC Youth League had with the tribal authorities.  Are these problems still going on are you in the process of solving them?

MBIZA MBOKOTA: The problem between the ANC Youth League and the tribal authority is still there.
 Somehow some of the RDP projects, when they arrived in the village, they didn't come through the civic, there are some projects which are managed by the tribal authority.  They even say somewhere that those people who were in the ANC Youth League, they are not going to have access to go and work in those projects and truly speaking they are not getting that access to benefit from the RDP.
 And if the tribal authority is still running the projects of the RDP, those people are still going to suffer for being members of the African National Congress Youth League.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Are you saying that, where does the tribal authority get the manpower for those projects if it does not get them from the youth right around in the community?

MBIZA MBOKOTA: What I can say is that the way the do it, the VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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youth itself is not a youth of the ANC alone, the Smoqoi Progressive Party that time and I still believe that residue of Smoqoi is still there and while projects are arranged, this projects are arranged in using the workforce of the Smoqoi Progressive Party, leaving the ANC Youth League outside, so these projects are being led by those people who were Smoqoi.
 Those people who are known that this members of the ANC Youth League, they are not being covered by the RDP projects and in most cases they are ignored.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Mbokota, because one of the prime objectives of the Truth and Reconciliation is to promote national unity so one is just giving that hint that there need to be a reconciliation or a working together between all those forces.
 Next my question would be when they got arrested and you had to make a follow up of these people, why didn't you instruct at least a lawyer who would have accompanied you to the police station where perhaps the possibility of your detention would have been minimized?

MBIZA MBOKOTA: I didn't have a lawyer that's why a lawyer was arranged for us from the Lawyers for Human Rights.

THOMAS MANTHATA: By the way, what period are we talking about?  Are we talking about the period of 1993 or 1994?

MBIZA MBOKOTA: 1992, we are talking about 1992, according to the statement.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, I think we have, yes, the best we can do is as we have said, could you tell your fellow comrades to bring me their statements, secondly could you, now that you have even see how ridiculous the allegation that Noqi's house was burnt by the comrades, is, I think there should be VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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a little bit of accommodation and understanding.
 You can appreciate that this is not going to be an overnight thing, and we are grateful that you have given us the names of the police who made it difficult for you people, so this is as far as you can go.
 I rest my case there and let me find out from my colleagues whether there are any further questions.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much Mr Mbokota, we've got your statement, we thank you for having come from - you have travelled all that way.  It has been a very long day but we thank you for having eventually made it and we will certainly try to follow up on some of the issues.
 Particularly in your case, the human rights violations which you suffered, the severe ill-treatment, the torture, the sjamboking and we will certainly be making recommendations.
 As I've said to other witnesses on the need for the Government to take seriously the question of reparations and rehabilitations.  People like you and others who suffered during the period that the Commission is looking at.
 Thank you very much for having come and waiting so long.  And I want to thank everybody who still remains behind.  It has been a long day, we thank you for your support.  The support you've shown to the witnesses, your patience, sometimes it was very difficult, we know with people struggling to get in.
 We want to thank all of those who assisted as briefers, volunteers, to make this hearing possible.  We want to thank the press, TV crew, it has been a long hard day for them.  The cameras which they use, are quite heavy.  To move around for so many hours.  We want to thank the interpreters, we 
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want to thank the police who have provided security for us as the Commission, also for looking after the premises and try to keep order, we know it is a bit difficult.
 We want to thank the signer, it has been very hard for him and we want to say that the community here in Toyandu, the witnesses have issued a challenge to the Truth  Commission, they said that you've come to listen to our stories, we've mentioned the names of those whom we believe were involved, we've mentioned the names of those who we believe are perpetrators, and we are saying to the  Truth Commission, what are you going to do about that.
 There are certain names which came up repeatedly, we all know them, Ramarighera, Manage, Ramoswana, Nesemari, Musuvua and we certainly are going to follow up on those names, that is a commitment that we can make to you.  
 As I said, we will ask them to come forward, if they don't accept the invitation, we do have powers to subpoena so that we can get the information that people have asked for to try and establish some of the truth.
 Thank you once again, we will be coming to this part of the country again and we hope that people will be encouraged to make statements.
 Could I ask that we stand for the last time, respect and acknowledgement of those victims who are still here, let us stand while they leave and if people want to end by singing the national anthem, that's fine, thank you  once again.
 Sorry, one final thing, if we can just make sure that we leave the boxes behind, these headsets through which you heard the interpretation, thank you.