Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-18

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Obose?

MR OBOSE: Mr Chairman, I'll call Mr Sibuqashe.
That will be the last witness Mr Chairman, I may mention.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR OBOSE: Thank you.

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: (sworn states)

MR OBOSE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	What rank are you holding in the South African Police Services, Mr Sibuqashe?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I'm an inspector.

MR OBOSE: What rank were you holding in 1994 in March?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I was an inspector at the time.

MR OBOSE: Where were you stationed?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: At Bisho Police Station.

MR OBOSE: Were you part of the group that was called by the commissioner to attend a meeting at Bisho College on the morning of the 22nd March 1994?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes, on that day I was part of the police who were told that there was going to be a meeting there.  I think it was to be in the afternoon about 2.  We were told that the police were already there so we were supposed to go to the college.

MR OBOSE: Did you go?  Did you go to the meeting?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes I was with other police from the charge office because there was a van that was operating there.  As we were working during the day we heard that the inspectors were needed there.  The others were left behind.

MR OBOSE: So you got there in the afternoon?  What was going on in the afternoon?  What did you find happening at the meeting?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: At the meeting I found that there were a lot of police when I went to the hall.  I could see that there were a lot of police and the meeting was initially called to train the police about the elections that were going to be held and it was said that General Nqoya wasn't there and he left in the morning saying that he was going to come back so they were waiting for him but at the time it was clear that the police were not sitting there or waiting in patience.

MR OBOSE: Yes proceed?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: After some time because we arrived there were issues that were discussed there, there was a stage there and there was a microphone and Inspector Mfene was the one that I noticed and Inspector Nkwenkwe.  They were saying that maybe if there's a particular person in a certain section or financial issues were discussed and the people who were responsible for those things it was said that there were monies that were misappropriated by certain officers.

MR OBOSE: What was the mood of the meeting now, was it an ordinary police meeting.  Would you say it looked like any other police meeting you're used to?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: No it was not an ordinary meeting, an ordinary normal meeting of the police.  It was just like a rally because when I was inside there I could see that I was not free because it was said that the police were told, all of them, to come to the college and they did not arrive, they did not all arrive and other police were also expected from other areas, not from Bisho alone.

MR OBOSE: And then what about those policemen who had been told to come to the meeting, what has to be done about that?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Because we were arriving at the time it was said that we should give them tasks.

MR OBOSE: To do what?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: What had happened before was that we heard that there was information saying that soldiers and the police from King William's Town would come so it was said that we should get weapons to arm ourselves, to defend ourselves, because we didn't want to leave that place.

MR OBOSE: So the feeling of the meeting was that we wouldn't believe, we wouldn't be disrupted, we'll fight back if need be, is that would you ...(indistinct) to be the mood?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes the mood was like that.  The police said that we're not going to leave that place because when I arrived there the police said that what was happening to them were things that they could not tolerate so they thought that they were in a right way to sit there and fight for their demands.

MR OBOSE: At what stage did the singing of freedom songs take place if at all?  Singing of freedom songs, were any such songs sung in that meeting?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes, there would be freedom songs that were sung and slogans that were shouted or chanted when I arrived.

MR OBOSE: Was this familiar to you that police would sing freedom songs, was this often, had you ever seen this happening?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: As a person who was a member of Popcru, I used to see police singing freedom songs even though at the time it was no easy because we would do that secretly because the senior officers would promise to lay charges against us according to the police laws.

MR OBOSE: Okay.  Now okay, so you were a Popcru member by this date?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: That is correct, Sir.

MR OBOSE: Was Popcru for or against the continuous rule of Brigadier Gqozo?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Popcru was against the rule of Brigadier Gqozo because it was affiliated to the COSATU so it was taken as the ANC that was not wanted at the time.

MR OBOSE: Now the meeting progressed into the night, is that correct?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes the meeting continued and as I had said that it was said that the police, the South African Police from King William's Town and the soldiers, South African Defence Force, were given instructions to go and disrupt that meeting.  It was said that a certain group of people had to be sent to Brigadier Vuso to want to ask for a key for the armoury from him.

MR OBOSE: Where did you find Brigadier Vuso?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: We found him in his office, he was in his office.

MR OBOSE: This arming of policemen, roughly what time did this occur when they actually got to be armed with assault rifles, automatic firearms?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: It was in the afternoon.

MR OBOSE: Okay, where did find - okay, did you bring Brigadier Vuso to the meeting?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes we brought him to the meeting because the instruction was that we were to get the keys.  He said that the keys were with Captain Mondo so we decided to go back to the meeting with him because he said that the keys were not with him even though he was the head of the logistics so according to the law of the police one key was supposed to be with him and the other key to Captain Mondo so that's why we brought him to the meeting.

MR OBOSE: Brigadier Vuso, that is?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: No he didn't go there willingly, he didn't want to go to the meeting because he seemed as if he was scared.  As a person whom I worked with before he used to say to me I've disappointed him and he said that the keys were with Mondo, he didn't know anything about the keys so he wanted us to leave him behind.  He said that he had trusted me, I was going to be an officer so how was I going to be promoted to an officer if I did such a thing to him.

MR OBOSE: Did you say he seemed to be scared is that so?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes he seemed to be scared because the first time I spoke to him because the police were in a hurry, one of them pulled out a chair whilst he was still sitting, he nearly fell down so I was trying to prevent the police from doing that so while he was trying to speak to them, asking for forgiveness he was referring to me because I was the one who seemed to listen to him.

MR OBOSE: So the mood was generally aggressive in his office towards him?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes because he didn't want to go to that meeting but we ended up taking him to the meeting.  I knew that he was supposed to get the key so we decided to take Vusi to account for himself at the meeting because he was the head of the logistics.

MR OBOSE: Okay, from whom was the key found?