Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-03

ADV VISSER: Mr Chairman, before you adjourn, could you allow me one minute?  I am instructed Mr Chairman, to place something on record.  We all know that we hear mainly Mr Chairman, for the sake of reconciliation and trying to build bridges, we know that it is important for members, family members of victims of gross violations that they should have an opportunity to say what they feel in their hearts and how they feel and we have listened today again to the heartrending stories told by these people, however, Mr Chairman, there is a problem which is presenting itself.
	You heard the evidence of our applicants, after all of what they told you, and it wasn't easy, I think you will remember when they gave their evidence, it wasn't easy for them to come, they are now at the end of the day made out to be criminal murderers and they find themselves in a position where they cannot defend themselves, where this evidence is going to go into the world.
	Mr Chairman, we are just placing on record, that there is something unfair here which militates against reconciliation.  We don't know what the answer is, but we do feel Mr Chairman, that these gentlemen who have come to you to give their evidence, did so in honesty and in truthfulness, you will be the judge of that at the end of the day.	
	At some stage or other Mr Chairman, something will have to be done about this, because a distorted picture might be sent into the world and people may read in the newspapers about these gentlemen whom they know, to be murderers and if that is, if the Act leaves that scope Mr Chairman, then something is drastically wrong.
	We just want to make that statement and leave it at that Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, on the other hand Mr Visser, you must remember that only people who have committed crimes, are the people who are expected to come here.  This process is meant exactly for murderers and people expect that people who come to apply for amnesty, are self-confessed murderers, that is why they want amnesty.
	And amnesty is not just there for, you know, it must be given in accordance with the law.  And there maybe some other prices to pay and as I understand the law and this is my personal view, I am not expressing the views of the Committee, there is a price to pay for getting amnesty.
	You are expected to come publicly, in front of the nation and the rest of the world to acknowledge publicly that you have murdered people.  If you feel you have not committed any murder at all, then you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to apply amnesty for, one would have thought that you wouldn't come, but if you come, you want amnesty, you are expected to give full disclosure and in fact to acknowledge that you have committed a crime on a public platform, so that you could get amnesty.
	Now, coming publicly to say and confess that you have committed murder, and then later complain when people say oh, you were in fact a murderer, I don't understand the nature of the complaint.
	We are not here to listen to innocent people.  As far as I know.

ADV VISSER: Mr Chairman, you are absolutely correct in everything you've said, you are absolutely correct.  I think the short answer is that it cannot be expected from the legislature to cover all possible events, I think that is the short answer to the problem.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And I will say to you Mr Visser, I will give an example of two distinguished people in this country.  One of them has publicly acknowledged he has made an application for amnesty, the former Commissioner of the South African Police and he admitted that he murdered people.	He planned the murdering of people and therefore he feels he has committed this, he must apply for amnesty.
	On the other hand there is ... (tape ends)