Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-28

CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Those two offences, that is the possession of unlicensed firearm and the unlawful possession of ammunition you were charged separately for?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So in total you had three charges and you were convicted of all three?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WESSELS: In respect of the possession of the unlicensed firearm and the possession of ammunition without having in your possession a licensed firearm, could you have executed this plan if you did not have access to this firearm and ammunition?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I could not have.

MR WESSELS: So although they were separate charges it was all required for the purpose of achieving this objective of eliminating the victim?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

MR WESSELS: As far as your co-applicant is concerned he was not present at the time when your case was finalised?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

MR WESSELS: He was subsequently convicted and sentenced in your absence?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you still in prison? Are you still serving this sentence?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And your co-applicant?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Him as well.

CHAIRPERSON: How long have you served already?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I was sentenced in 1994, the 25th of May.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you appeal against that conviction?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: No I did not appeal.

CHAIRPERSON: So you started serving your sentence from May 1994?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you know when your co-accused starting serving his sentence?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I am not sure about the date.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wessels do you perhaps know from the
record?

MR WESSELS: Yes, the co-applicant was sentenced on the 27th of June 1995. And he was sentenced to an effective eleven (11) years imprisonment. However he is also serving other sentences, lengthy other sentences.

CHAIRPERSON: I am only concerned about this application.

MR WESSELS: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I see in his application Mr Wessels, unless I have not read this properly, that he did not apply for escaping.

MR WESSELS: No, that is correct. The application is only in respect of the attempted murder and the offenses under the Firearm Act.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you not argue that the escape is part and parcel of this whole escapade?

MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman no. He has a peculiar situation involving other matters and I will be, it will be difficult to argue that the escaping was solely related in respect of this matter. So I will not pursue that line of argument.

CHAIRPERSON: I see. So the application is only made in respect of attempted murder and the offenses under the Arms and Ammunition Act?

MR WESSELS: Indeed so on behalf of both these applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: And second applicant is aware of this?

MR WESSELS: I am sure, well his application is only in respect of those matters. And I think that is the whole reason why it is only framed in that nature.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, through you Mr Chairperson may I perhaps ask one question? He was sentenced to eleven (11) years. Is this eleven (11) years only for attempted murder, unlawful possession of arms and ammunition? Has it got nothing to do with the escaping?

MR WESSELS: No he was not charged for escaping in the regional court. He was only sentenced to ten (10) years imprisonment for the attempted murder and a total of one year imprisonment for the offences under the Arms and Ammunition which was ordered to run concurrently with another suspended sentence in another matter. So in total if he was sentenced to an effective eleven (11) years imprisonment. That is the second applicant.
	Mr Bleki if there is nothing further then I just want to return to certain aspects. You already lodged your application for amnesty in 1996 and the hearing of your application for amnesty was set down for August 1997, that was last year. But because of certain difficulties with the investigation by the investigation team your application was not heard in August of last year. Is that correct?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

MR WESSELS: And you are presently by bringing this application still waiting for this whole matter, this is the only matter which is keeping you in prison?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct.

MR WESSELS: I want to deal with your present relationship with Mrs Maliti, the victim's wife who is present here in the audience. Is it correct this morning she also came to you, to come and greet you?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct. When she was walking past me she greeted me and I greeted right back.

MR WESSELS: And the victim's children, do they still attend school together with your younger brother or brothers?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes they went to school together but now I hear that my little brother is in Cape Town. They are no longer at school together.

MR WESSELS: And what is your information about the children of the victim visiting your house in your absence now that you are in prison? Do they come and visit your house?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes I would hear that Mr Maliti's children would go to my house. They are friends with my siblings.

MR WESSELS: And do you have any feelings or emotions which you wish to express in regard to the family of the victim?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes. I would be very grateful if I had the opportunity to say something.

MR WESSELS: Please proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: I think if you want to make your peace with anybody then you can do it after the hearing.

MR WESSELS: As the Chairman pleases. There is one matter which Mrs Maliti has raised and that is that she has mentioned that after the shooting of her husband, the victim there were rumours doing the rounds there in Middelburg that she was in some way connected with the planning of the shooting of her husband. Now can you respond in regard to those rumours that did the rounds?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I know Mrs Maliti, she used to teach me. In connection with this case she did not take part at all. She never really spoke to me about my political activities or my differences with her husband. She did not play any role in this matter at all. I have nothing against her or her children. But I could say that I am very sorry about what happened that we shot Mr Maliti.

CHAIRPERSON: The question is, did she have anything to do with your activities relating with the incident with her husband?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: No, not at all.

MR WESSELS: And she and your co-applicant, Oscar did not even know each other. So as far as your co-applicant is concerned she had nothing to do from his point of view with the execution of this plan. Is that correct?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman those are the facts in support of the application for both these applicants which we wish to tender. The details of the application is set out in the documents. If there is nothing in particular that any of the committee members would like to hear us on, then we will stand by what has now been tendered.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma have you got any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Mr Chairman I have no questions.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson perhaps one or two questions. Mr Bleki after the incident how did your organisation, the ANC react to the incident?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I tried to get in touch with the comrades after the incident giving them all the details what happened. All I had received was their support.

MR SIBANYONI: Are they also supportive of your application for amnesty?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes there is also a report that they have got in support of my application for amnesty.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Bleki in what capacity were you acting when you launched the attack on the deceased?