Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

WITNESS:   There was a court case but what surprised us is that the people who were involved were not arrested.  Other people were arrested, not the people who were actually involved.  That's what I can  say.  Other people who were not involved in this matter were - Mr Mdlalose was arrested for two days.  B I Zulu came and shouted at the policeman and asked them why is Mr Mdlalose arrested.

KHOZA MGOJO:  He wasn't sentenced in other words?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't.  He was supposed to appear before the court the next day.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You said this happened only for two days.

WITNESS:   Yes, he was detained for two days.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And these other people?

WITNESS:   We only gave testimony and we gave the police their names, but we didn't see them coming to court.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you know the name of the magistrate?

WITNESS:   Mr Vilekazi.  He's now dead.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, you came here to the Truth Commission.  We are happy that you came but we want you to tell us why are you here.  If maybe you have a request.  You heard what Mary has asked us to do.  We want you as well to tell us what you're asking us to do.

WITNESS:   I would like the Truth Commission to investigate this matter, start this matter all over again because the people who burnt my father's house are still now out and he used this money from his pension and that the policemen didn't do their job.  Even today one of these detectives who were handling this case, they're still at Eshowe Police Station and again still Mr Mdlalose is still continuing torturing people and again Malusi Khambule's case was never touched.  There was never a case.  My house was burnt and I was arrested and I went before the magistrate and the magistrate told them I wasn't guilty.  The people who burnt my house were not arrested.  This  is clear to me that the government of that day didn't care about the safety of the people because all these things were happening during the day.  Even a young child could see, even my children know today.  They know who burnt my father's house.  Some of these people who did this to my father's house, they were arrested afterwards because of other incidents which they've done.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You have names for these people.  Now it looks like you're coming all right.  Can we have names?

WITNESS:   Qitsha Magwaza.  Another one is Mfanakanina Mugade and the third one is Ngumu Khumalo, the fourth one is Mfanase Dludla, the fifth one is Makhansela Khanyile.  Mbuso Shangi.  I've forgotten the other names.

KHOZA MGOJO:  It's okay, these are enough.  Where are they staying?

WITNESS:   They're still staying at my area, at Mkanini.  We are staying at Mkanini and they are also there at Mathibelani's area.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are they working now?

WITNESS:   Yes, some of them are.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You also said these policemen are still policemen.

WITNESS:   Yes, except for B I Zulu who is now a chief at Mondi.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is this place?

WITNESS:   At Eshowe.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You also said Mdlalose is still there.

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And where is your mother?

WITNESS:   My mother is at home.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is she well, or this thing has affected her?

WITNESS:  Yes, it did affect my mother and she's now okay because we are now working.  My younger brother - even if I cannot say it 100 per cent to you but I think he was  affected mentally.   His name is Samson.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is he getting any help?

WITNESS:   Yes, me and my brother, the one who's in Johannesburg, we are helping the family.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I mean, does your brother see a psychologist or ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes, we did take him one time in Durban and they told us he will be fine.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Were you paying?

WITNESS:   Yes, we were.

KHOZA MGOJO: I'm asking you because we might try and help him to see our psychologist because we have tried and talked to the Department of Health and people like you can see psychologists without paying.  What you'll need to do is now after this you can try and see our social workers and they can try and help you.  What you've just told us, Bonginkosi, it's very sad that something that will start as a minor thing would go as to destroying houses, other people being killed.  It wasn't for the first time that people went there, sitting there and having a nice time, drinking in parties will get involved in fights but it doesn't mean that it should go as far as to burning other people's houses or killing other people.  It was supposed to end there, to an extent that there is a belief that people who are drinking are people who are usually peaceful because they fight and then they drink again and they are friends again.  This one, it's really difficult for me to understand and I think I'm satisfied with the information that I have now.  Maybe my colleagues will have other questions to ask.

MR LYSTER: Mr Makhoba, thank you for coming in and telling us your story.  You have expressed some of the frustration that other people have expressed over the  last day and a half, particularly about the ability of the police to investigate these cases properly and it seems as though the policeman that prevented the proper investigation of this case was a policeman who has already been mentioned this morning, B I Zulu, that just as after arrests were made and people were about to be charged - that this particular policeman who has a very long reputation and a bad reputation came in and prevented the investigation from taking place and it's very frustrating for you and for many other people to see that these policemen are still holding positions of power and influence and we hope that some day soon in this province that sort of thing will be something that we can put behind us and that the police are people that we can look up to when we are in times of need and people that we can trust.  We will do what we can to investigate this matter and report that to you if we are able to make any headway on it.  But we thank you for coming in and giving us this information.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: We're going to have short break now for lunch.  Please will you stand while these witnesses in front here leave the room just as a sign of respect to them and we'll come back - please be seated by quarter to two.  35 minutes.  Thank you very much.
LONG ADJOURNMENT
/ON RESUMPTION
ON RESUMPTION

MR LYSTER: Good afternoon, Mrs Simelane.  We welcome you here today.  You have somebody else with you today on the stage.  Is that your daughter?

MRS SIMELANE: Yes, that's my daughter.

MR LYSTER: We also welcome your daughter here today.  You live at Matshana, is that right?

MRS SIMELANE: Yes.

MR LYSTER: And you have come here to tell us about the death of your husband.  Can you please stand to take the oath before you tell us that story?

EUNICE SIMELANE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

MR LYSTER: Dr Magwaza will assist you now.

PROF MAGWAZA: I greet you both, Mrs Simelane and your daughter.  Before I start, I would like to know if your daughter is going to say anything or if she's here just to comfort you?

WITNESS:   She'll be here to help me because she was there when this thing happened.

PROF MAGWAZA: If that's the case, then we will ask her as well to take the oath.

MR LYSTER: What is your full name please?

MS SIMELANE: (Inaudible)
OATH ADMINISTERED TO MS SIMELANE

PROF MAGWAZA: Thank you, Mrs Simelane, for coming here today and that you persevered until this time to come and give your testimony.  In other words, whatever you have to tell us, it's very important to you and you must know that even to us it's also important.  Before we start, Mrs Simelane, I would like you to tell us more about your family.  Tell us about your husband who was  killed and how many children you have.  Maybe you can start by telling us more about your husband.  Tell us how old he was when he died.