Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-21

CHAIRPERSON: Morning everybody.  We proceed with the hearing and we'll be commencing I believe, with the evidence of Ms Stephanie Miller.  Is that right, Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: That's correct, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: What are your full names please?

STEPHANIE MILLER: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: Thank you, Mr Chair.
	Mrs Miller, is it correct that you were working for the Truth Commission as an Investigator from 1996?

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's correct.

MS THABETHE: And when did you stop working for the Commission?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I left the Commission in 1997 and returned for this period of time to complete this amnesty.

MS THABETHE: Can you tell this Commission how it came about that you investigated the matter of Ntombi Kubheka?
MS MILLER
"The original investigation started immediately on my appointment to the Truth Commission.  One of the first cases I was given was the case of the Phoenix 3.  That was a case where three people were blown up on the railway line at Phoenix."

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what's it called?

STEPHANIE MILLER: We called it the Phoenix 3.  It was a case which involved three KwaMashu youths who had, their bodies had been found blown up next to a railway line in Phoenix.  I had had prior knowledge of this case in 1988 and it was initially investigated by one of my colleagues and then came to me as part of a greater investigation involving the Port Natal Security Branch.  So that was my initial investigation and as result of that, and having known some of the members of the Port Natal Security Branch, I ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm just going to ask them to stop the banging.  But I think you can carry on in the meantime, Ms Miller.
MS MILLER
"Because of some prior knowledge that I had of some of the workings of the Port Natal Security Branch, I dealt with that particular case and made contact with some of the members who subsequently applied for amnesty in this case.  	At a later date - we started to look then at the victims' statements which had come into the Truth Commission, largely those of people who had disappeared, where there was no body found or there was no - the family had no knowledge of what had happened to their children or husbands, spouses.  And later on during the course of the Commission, amnesty applications were then received.
		When the two were put together, both the victims, the missing, the disappeared and the amnesty applications, there was some meeting of the two and we were able to marry some of those that had disappeared, together with some of the amnesty applications that had been received.
		We then, in this particular case with the Port Natal Security Branch, received a bundle which included applications from Andy Taylor, Hentie Botha, Sam du Preez and Wasserman, plus some others, and we were able then to split the number of cases between us within the office and we started doing what was then called 'special investigations' around specific cases and I was allocated this specific case as part of my brief.
		Essentially we were looking at the veracity of the statements that had been received in terms of the amnesty applications and verifying, in terms of what had been said, that this was correct and that it could be backed up by other evidence.
		In this particular case, one of the problems that arose was there was a conflict in that Andy Taylor, who was the Commander of the group, applied for amnesty for possible murder of Ntombi Kubheka whereas some of the others had applied for hiding her death in that she had died of natural causes, and essentially it then became fairly important to try and trace why there was this discrepancy. 
		Andy Taylor at the time had come in for what we called a Section 29, which was held in our offices in Durban and he was questioned and answered, but what became apparent was that he wasn't there the entire period of her, the period that she was held in Winkelspruit, whereas some of the other members had been there more of the time.
		There was quite a lot of conflict between Hentie Botha's statement and those of other parties who'd applied for amnesty, in that he was adamant she died of natural causes, some of the other people who said she died of natural causes, in fact were not present and were repeating what they had been told.  One of the askaris gave conflicting evidence and it became quite difficult to determine what in fact happened on that day."

MS THABETHE: You're referring to a Section 29, when did this take place?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Unfortunately I don't have access to my original investigative file, so I don't have this specific detail and I can't give you the date, but it was in the period just before Andy Taylor died.

CHAIRPERSON: So are you saying there was a Section 29 hearing?

STEPHANIE MILLER: There was a Section 29 hearing in the TRC offices in Durban.

CHAIRPERSON: At which the applicants appeared?

STEPHANIE MILLER: No, in which Andy Taylor, Col Taylor appeared.

CHAIRPERSON: Taylor appeared, yes.

MS THABETHE: Do you know who was representing Col Taylor then?  In that Section 29 hearing?

STEPHANIE MILLER: If my memory's correct, I think Mr Nel represented Col Taylor.

MS THABETHE: Okay, you may proceed.
MS MILLER
"As it happened, a colleague of mine was doing more of the cases that involved Col Taylor, so my contact with him was minimal, more specifically as he had not been present when Ms Kubheka died, or he alleged he hadn't been present when Ms Kubheka died.
		This was one of many cases we dealt with and one of the issues that became quite apparent after a while was that there seemed to be a pattern, a merging in our investigations, in that there were periods of time where activists or MK units would disappear and never be seen again.  There were coincidences such as, in some of the cases where there were exhumations, where the amnesty applicants fairly consistently said that the reason that these people had been killed and the manner in which they had been killed and disposed of and the manner in which they had been disposed, was because they were aware of the fact that they couldn't be convicted in a court of law.  
		And in our discussions with Botha and others at the exhumation sites and at other times, it appeared that their intelligence at the time must have been fairly good, in that they were infiltrating a substantial amount of MK cells in the country at that time, or in the Port Natal region at that time, and these people were disappearing."

MS THABETHE: Okay, Mrs Miller.  Now I just want to introduce your statement that you've written with regard to the incident of Ntombi Kubheka.  I want us to concentrate on that incident and I want you to tell the Committee as to what ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, are you referring to the statement which we received earlier this week, the one that was dated the 11th of July?

MS THABETHE: Yes, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Does everybody have a copy?  This will be Exhibit K.  We'll refer to it as Exhibit K.

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair, we'll also refer to another statement by Mohammed Sadik Ismail.  I think everyone has got it as well.  I handed it in on Tuesday.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I don't think, I haven't seen a statement by a Mohammed, no.

MS THABETHE: I will arrange that copies be made for you.

MR LAX: While I remember, could I have my one back?  Did you make a copy of it?  I gave you the one.

MR WILLS: I will get it back to you.

MR LAX: Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Do we need the statement of ...

MS THABETHE: We will refer to it later, Mr Chair, but I've got three copies.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want us to give it a number now?

MS THABETHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Exhibit L will be the statement of Mohammed Sadik Ismail.  This is the mortuary attendant at Verulam, yes, that will be Exhibit L.

MS THABETHE: Do you confirm the statement, that you made the statement?