Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   I will like to briefly say that my father has this headache problem, and he has to go to a doctor so often, and if this continues I think we will have a problem because he might not even be able to continue to work, and we won't have means to survive.  He is 70 years old at the moment and he has been operated.

MR LYSTER: Who is this person of 70 years?

WITNESS:   It's not my father, yes, it's my grandmother.

MR LYSTER: And your father, how old is he?

WITNESS:   I think he's 42.

MR LYSTER: Which means he doesn't qualify for pension.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER: And you say he needs to be treated?

WITNESS:   Yes, he needs to be treated.

MR LYSTER: We'd like to thank you Mzwakhe.  We have heard your evidence, and we have heard from other people that the people of Mpophomeni have been harassed.  We believe that things will come to order and you will be able to live in peace at your place.  I would like to thank you and I will take you back to our Chairperson.

MR LYSTER: Mzwakhe, in your statement you said you wish the Commission could help you to continue with your studies.  I didn't hear about your school background.  How far did it go?

WITNESS:   Because of the difficulties that I had I dropped out while I was doing standard six.

MR LYSTER: Did you pass standard six?

WITNESS:   No, I dropped out during the middle.  It was in the middle of the year.

MR LYSTER: Would you like to be able to continue with your education?

WITNESS:   No, because I don't think at the moment I am ready to go back to school, but I will be so glad if the Commission can help me to continue with my work, the panel beating work, if ever there is any way of helping me in regard to that.

MR LYSTER: Mr Ngcobo, like many other ... (inaudible) ... you have told us about what happened in Mpophomeni township during the 1980s.  When the history of this country is rewritten it seems as though a whole chapter will have to be devoted to the happenings in Mpophomeni township from 1988 - sorry, 1985 to 1990.  Terrible things happened in that area, and we saw a total breakdown of law and order and an open alliance between the police and those elements in the area who were opposed to the ongoing solidarity amongst the Sarmcol strikers.

MR LYSTER: Both you and your father were victims of the lawlessness during that period, and it is clear from what you have said that you are both still suffering from what happened in those days.

MR LYSTER: As my colleagues have said, we don't have the power to assist you directly, but we will be making recommendations to the President and to the Government as to how people like you should be assisted.

MR LYSTER: So we thank you for coming in to talk to us today, to share your experiences with us, and what you have said helps us to gain a clearer picture of what happened in those days.  So we thank you again and wish you well as you leave us.  Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: JEFFREY MNIKATHI AND DOROTHY MNIKATHI

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... about what happened to you, or particularly to Jeffrey.  Just give me a picture of the background of your family.  And before you do that - I don't know who's going to start.  Anyone can start.  Your family, how many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I do have children.  They are at school.  I have five children.

MR LYSTER: Just explain to us what classes are they and in which schools are they.

WITNESS:   The other one is in standard nine, the other one in standard eight, and standard five.  The other one is in standard six and standard four respectively.

MR LYSTER: Didn't you say you've got five children.

WITNESS:   Yes, they are five.

MR LYSTER: Could you please start afresh, because now according to what you've just told us it seems there are six.

WITNESS:  Standard nine, standard eight, standard three - I think my wife should speak.  I am really confused. (Pause)  We men tend to forget all those things about children.  One is in standard nine, in standard eight, standard seven, standard five, as well as standard four.

MR LYSTER: Your children are really getting educated.  You stay in Imbali.

WITNESS:   Yes, we do, at Mzana Road.

MR LYSTER: How long have you been staying there?

WITNESS:   It's quite a long time.  We started living there in 1982.  We were from Howick.

MR LYSTER: Where?  Is it Mpophomeni?

WITNESS:   No, that is not Mpophomeni.

MR LYSTER: Just relate the circumstances surrounding to your attack.  Did you belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   There was ANC, but I hadn't yet joined the ANC, but I had a desire to be a member of the ANC.

MR LYSTER: What about your wife?

WITNESS:   I did not belong to any political organisation.

MR LYSTER: What about the children?

WITNESS:   At that time my children were at Bulwer so they could not have belonged to any political organisation.

MR LYSTER: Now, you have come here to relate about the accounts that took place on the 5th of July.  Now, who is going to give us the account?

WITNESS:   I am.  On this particular day I was working night shift.

MR LYSTER: What was the date, the month, the year?

WITNESS:   It was in 1984.

MR LYSTER: What was the date or the month?

WITNESS:   It was the 25th of July 1984.  It was at about half past one in the afternoon.  At that time I started coughing.

MR LYSTER: At that time what were you doing?

WITNESS:   I was still telling you as to what was happening.

MR LYSTER: What were you doing?  Were you eating?

WITNESS:   No, I was having a bath.  I woke up at about quarter past one as if there was something choking me.  I woke up and opened up the windows.  I slept once more.

MR LYSTER: Before you even go any further let's get some clarity here.  Were you sick when you say you felt something choking you?

WITNESS:   No, I was from work and I was going to - I was working night shift and I was supposed to go back to work at 3.00 pm.

MR LYSTER: Now, were you preparing yourself to go to work?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.  At that time I wanted to see what was choking me.  I heard my wife asking me whether I was still asleep.  She said people were fighting, children were being assaulted by the police. Who were fighting?  Was it the children and the police?   ---   That is correct, at Myezane - at Myezane High School.  It was when Mr Koornhof had come to visit the school.

MR LYSTER: Who was Koornhof?

WITNESS:   They had come to inaugurate a mayor.

MR LYSTER: Was it the day that Koornhof was from the Government to come and see the mayor?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.  I went there to see what was happening, but I came back and made my bed and I started washing up.  I had opened the windows as well as the doors because I thought I was being choked by tear gas.  As I was still washing ... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: Just a little moment.  Were you sleeping with the doors open?

WITNESS:   No, I only opened the doors when I heard something choking me, because I realised that might probably have been tear gas so I opened the windows as well as the doors.

MR LYSTER: Was the whole of the place, Imbali, was it affected?

WITNESS:   In other houses there were fights.  As I was still taking my bath there came children running.  They said they were being chased by police.  I tried to chase them out but I couldn't.  I think there were about eight.  There were quite a group running towards my house.  They got into both the doors.  The children got inside and closed the doors.  I was full of soap on my face.

MR LYSTER: What caused you to push the children outside because they were running into your house?

WITNESS:   I was pushing them outside because many of them were getting into the house and flocking into the house, and at that time I didn't know what was happening.  Then at that time police came.

MR LYSTER: Did you ask these kids as to where they were coming from and why they were running?