Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR HLONGWANE: I was supposed to receive money regularly from MZ Khumalo but if I was away MZ Khumalo would telephone the mayor or the official there so that I could receive my salary, R800. I would be paid at the end of each month.

CHAIRPERSON: Please be quiet.

MR NGUBANE: Now when you were at eSikaweni did you continue to receive this R800 a month or you received more than that at any stage?

MR HLONGWANE: No it was never increased but we would receive maybe smaller amounts from the eSikaweni leadership. For instance when we had hit big fish they would give us money perhaps or maybe sometimes we would have braais. But I would not count that as salaries. They would just be giving us that money because they were pleased.

MR NGUBANE: Who was actually giving you money at eSikaweni monthly, this monthly salary if I may call it?

MR HLONGWANE: Mr Pipi Biyela.

MR NGUBANE: Was this money in hard cash or it was cheques or what was the position?

MR HLONGWANE: He gave me cash cheques. I had never encountered a problem by using these cash cheques. He even carries these cheques to this day. Even if you wanted as little as R5 he would sign it for you.

MR NGUBANE: Now there is a stage when you were taken by MZ Khumalo into hiding, do you recall that?

MR HLONGWANE: I remember it very well.

MR NGUBANE: And when you were in hiding did you continue to receive any money?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I received money from MZ Khumalo. Although we were no longer on good terms at the time. I ended up stealing fowls from peoples' homes. I would sometimes go for 2 to 3 months without money. But as a person working under such situations I could not go into the public. Therefore I would hunt at night, hunting for fowls.

MR NGUBANE: For how long did this happen when you stole peoples' fowls and braaied them? Approximately?

MR HLONGWANE: It happened quite frequently because Mr Khumalo used to claim that the IFP's money was his children's. He will tell me that he would give me money but I should always remember that it belongs to his children and that his wife did not like him giving me the money. And he would go on for quite a long time without giving me money.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry please be quiet so we can continue.

MR NGUBANE: Now let's turn now to the murder of Gidinga at Mandeni, do you recall that incident?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I remember it very well.

MR NGUBANE: Now there was some concern that the mother of Gidinga did not give you direct instructions to kill Gidinga. Do you recall when you were asked about that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I do remember being asked about that.

MR NGUBANE: Now what I would like to know is that after Gidinga had been killed did you have the opportunity of meeting his mother?

MR HLONGWANE: I only saw her at the funeral in the morning when we were going to dig the grave at Island.

MR NGUBANE: Was there a stage after Gidinga had been murdered when in the presence of his mother his dad was discussed? In other words in the presence of his mother and yourself where his dad was discussed?

MR HLONGWANE: I do not remember.

MR NGUBANE: Did you at any stage gain the impression that he condoned this murder of Gidinga?

MR HLONGWANE: I did not think like that, I knew that.

MR NGUBANE: I see. Okay let's move on to this other hit man called Jerry Mdanda, where is he now? Do you know?

MR HLONGWANE: If I were to explain here I can explain where he is.

MR NGUBANE: Yes please do so?

MR HLONGWANE: I just touched upon his background. He is from the MK initially, actually defected from the MK to come and join us and on joining Inkata he did not go to the college. So then sent straight to the BSI.

MR NGUBANE: Sorry Mr Hlongwane to interrupt can you take it step by step so the interpreter can interpret? You said he defected from MK and he joined the police force, just proceed from there?

MR HLONGWANE: After joining the police at KwaZulu there was this police hit squad that was handled by Mr Kanile and Captain Shlengwa. And he was part of this group. There is also this other person called MG, the one Major Zama confused with one of the applicants. And he was together with people like Cyril Ngema and others. Jerry then worked at the police station and there came a time that he left the hit squad to come and, he left actually the police force to come and join the squad on a full time basis. And after that, that is after our arrest there was this that Jerry wanted to do what Thanduxolo our Commander did. Inkata was working hand in hand with the Boers and they knew that Jerry now wanted to write statements, take statements and they silenced him. Jerry Ndunda that is after our arrest yes the ITU together and there was now a need or it transpired that this was now known at Ulundi and when it transpired that there was conflict at Ntuba, he was seconded to go and sort that out at Ntuba - that is Jerry. And they heard that he was coming to testify on our behalf and he was shot at Ntuba. His corpse was taken elsewhere far away and people wondered why he was found at such a sugar cane field wearing a pyjama and big jacket. And people wondered how it happened. That is actually how he died. He actually came to give testimony on our behalf.

MR NGUBANE: Now if I understand your evidence correctly are you saying that Jerry Mdunda wanted to disclose the activities of Inkata and Inkata knew of that and they decided to eliminate him?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

MR NGUBANE: Now one last aspect. You mentioned something about that incident of Nthlengetwa where one of your members was hit with a brick. Do you recall that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I do remember that.

MR NGUBANE: It looks like that gentleman was severely injured do you know what happened after he had been hit with a brick?

MR HLONGWANE: Matawa took him to hospital and on arrival at the hospital it transpired that he was losing his head. He was hit right here on the forehead. So he must have lost his mind. That meaning that he really completely lost his head.

CHAIRPERSON: Please settle down.

MR HLONGWANE: I am saying this because when we were with him at the hospital he would refer to us as comrades and we concluded that he should not be given a gun. And when he died for example he had already lost a hand. But guns that were distributed around, guns that were brought by Humphrey Ndlovo. We also had these hand made guns. He accidently shot himself with one of these home made guns. Shot himself in the hand and he shot himself with an SSG or something and that is how he actually lost his hand.

MR NGUBANE: I see when you pointed at your head what you said in Zulu literally meant that his senses moved from his forehead to his back head, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Did he die as a result of that head injury ultimately? Did the head injury result in his death or did he die some other way?

MR HLONGWANE: No that is not the reason why he died. He survived that incident and he went back to his home Stanger where he came from. And when he arrived there as he was alighting from the taxi those whom we were fighting saw him and they finished him off. That is how he died.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane. Mr Hewit do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MR HEWIT: Mr Chairman we elect not to put any questions to this witness and once again place on record that the persons whom we represent and who have been implicated by this witness deny their complicity in any of the offenses he has testified to. Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hewit. Mr Mpshe do you have any questions to put to this witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Hlongwane I am going to take you back to the incident that took place at the hall where there was that motor vehicle that shone its lights on the building. Do you remember that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I do.