Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MR LAMANI: Okay thanks, I believe the year 1982 and I was doing matric at that stage.  In the township there in New Brighton, there in Port Elizabeth there is a house most COSAS activists used to stay.  The house situated at Masangwana Street, and many people in the township knew that if you want to get in touch or contact COSAS members you would go to that particular house, they always hang around there.  That also implies that even the Security police knew about the house.
 The Security police had the tendency or had a practice where at some point in time they will take rounds and visit people in the township particularly people who were banned or house arrested or activists.  They will just pop in your house just check where - whether are you still around, stay 10/20 minutes, then they go, they visit all of us.  So in this night they arrived at the house and there were few other comrades with us in the house but Zenzile was not there, I think Themba Manqashe was there and some other comrades.
 So when they knocked at the - when they knocked at the door, one other comrade went to open the door, so as he was opening the door, then he saw that is the police.   Then he said in Xhosa that abelungu bafikile, then we knew that when he said abelunga he don't mean any ordinary white person you know.  When you say abelungu you mean the security police the system yes.
 So when he said abelungu bafikile then we knew that okay they came.  So they got in there, there were some two or three other black security policemen with them and some white security policemen.  But the only one I can remember now it's Gideon Niewoudt, he was amongst the group of policemen who were in there.  So when they got in there they just asked us what are we were doing, and so on.  It was late in the evening and somebody, or one comrade was preparing food in the kitchen.  So they sat and they just talk whatever thing they wanted to say.
 They asked so many questions, where's so and so where's comrade so and so. Then as they were sitting down Niewoudt had a packet of cigarettes in his shirt in his front pocket in front, so he took out this packet of cigarettes, and there were small other white papers.  So he took out this packet of cigarettes and this small pieces of papers then he put them on the floor.
 Whilst other people asking questions to various individuals.  So they stayed there for a period of about 20 - 30 minutes.  You know just talking nonsense.  And after some time they said okay they are leaving now,  as they were leaving so Niewoudt bent down to pick up the packet of cigarettes and the small pieces of papers.  I was standing across him on the other side.
So as he was picking up this packet of cigarettes and this small bits of papers he left one piece of paper on the floor.  He took all the others and the packet of cigarette and he put them back in his shirt pocket and then they were preparing to leave.
 Then there were this small piece of paper he left there.  At that stage I couldn't say, sorry luitenant, you've left that piece of paper there I couldn't do that because I was also interested, and we were all interested - interested to see what's in the paper you know.
`So we can't help them and say  sorry luitenant you forgot something there.  So we let them go, and we said okay good bye, whatever, then they  left.  After they left them we jumped for that piece of paper and  when we got this piece of paper, it was a receipt.
And the receipt had a name there  Zenzile May, and on the amount side there was an amount of R500,00 or R600,00 but I can't recount whether it had a  stamp from the,  SA Police or South African Police was written on it.
But it was - but there was an indication that it is a receipt from the police.  And it had Zenzile's name and an amount of money and some signature at the bottom.  And many of us were present in the house we were mainly executive members of COSAS.  And immediately this created an impression, it implied that Zenzile was a paid police informer, here is the receipt from the police with his name and the amount of money.
 Then we said we'll have to convene the executive meeting the following day to look at this issue.  Then Zenzile was not there at that time.  Then we had the meeting, and this matter was tabled in an executive meeting and we discussed it.
 The house was divided on this issue, there were those of our activist of our comrades who believed that Gideon Niewoudt deliberately left this note to create a confusion and the impression that Zenzile May is a paid police informer.  And there were those of our members of the executive who believed that, it was so fortunate for us to bump into this kind of information.
 That all these time we had people within our mist who were selling out.  We couldn't resolve the issue but we decided then that this should be contained within the executive.  Because at that time COSAS was very strong, it was in 1982 you know.
 We just had a very successful school boycott in 1980's throughout the country, so COSAS was really very strong and to say - we said we couldn't let this go out of the executive.  So we should contain this within the executive and unfortunately it went out, it lick out of the executive and it went to the membership and not only the membership to many other people in the township.
 Thus Zenzile was then labelled by some as the police informer.  I think that's all I can say thanks.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Mr Lamani, were there no other possible mechanisms that could have been used to try to established the truth or otherwise of this suspension that he was being paid as an informer?

MR LAMANI: You see it was very difficult especially us as students, at least if we were a trade union where trade unions maybe they do have money we could explore other means but as students it was very difficult because the state at that time was very powerful especially the police.  They were very powerful they  had all the resources.
 And the only thing we could do is to get Zenzile and ask Zenzile whether he was an informer or not and if he says no and then that's it. Or if he says yes, then that's it.  So we couldn't explore all avenues on this matter.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you - yes.

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] oh! sorry it's modern technology.   I just want to know what you think saved you from being killed.  You have testified that most people who were labelled informers in those days were usually killed.  What you think saved you?

MR LAMANI: Well as I said earlier on that I did not participate in any active political activities, so also the fact that a lot of people have seen what I've gone.  It was difficult for anybody else I mean to challenge I mean or to come to me and tell me that I was a police informer.  So I just kept a low profile, so I think I survived in that way.

<UNKNOWN>: So though you think the damage was caused to your name you think that it may have been [indistinct] it wasn't that bad, is that what you are implying?

MR LAMANI: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you.

<UNKNOWN>: I just wanted to complete the inquiry about Mthimkulu, it is so that Mthimkulu has since disappeared to your knowledge.

MR LAMANI: Ja.

<UNKNOWN>: Do you know that, is it so?

MR LAMANI: Yes, I do

<UNKNOWN>: That his whereabouts are not known he disappeared from around Cape Town here.

MR LAMANI: Yes, I'm aware

<UNKNOWN>: Yes.