Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR DU PLESSIS: In other words also with all White suspects,organisations and connected matters.  General as far as GroupC is concerned could you make it a little bit clearer for us howthis group operated, the unit at Vlakplaas?

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Yes.  The Vlakplaas Unit, nowthe notorious Vlakplaas Unit was established in 1979 and the objectivewas in respect of people who came into the country 3B illegally/...
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illegally and who were arrested, chiefly members of MK but alsoother organisations, some of these people we could persuade towork for us and we then tried to use them to try and gather informationfrom other people who were entering the country illegally.  Inthat way we tried to establish a capacity which we wouldn't otherwisehave had to trace the people who were entering the country soas to arrest them.  In some cases some of these people we usedto testify in court cases but that happened more as an exceptionthan the rule.  Because these people had a specific capacity whichwas centralised we also utilised them in other divisions uponconsultation with the commanding officers of that particular divisionso that we could pool our resources.

MR DU PLESSIS: General, I have made one of the documentshere, I have put it at your disposal one of these documents whichis not destroyed, Brigadier Cronje will also testify regardingthe destruction of certain documents and problems experiencedby the applicants to corroborate certain facts as a result ofthe mass destruction of documents which took place, inter aliathe destruction of information contained on Security Branch computers. Certain documents have, however, been preserved and I have handeda document to you titled "List of names and telephone numbersof security officers", do you have that document?

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Yes I do.

MR DU PLESSIS: Chairperson I was intending to hand inthis document but for some reason I left it behind in my officethis morning and I will make this document available to you tomorrowmorning.  General am I correct in saying that this particulardocument, during the period that you were the commanding officerof the security branch sets out exactly
3B which/...
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which members were involved in what groups and exact structureof the security branch?

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Yes.  When the document was issued,that is so.

MR DU PLESSIS: General, could we now move to the wayin which instructions and commands were carried out where it relatedto specific instructions.  I am going to ask you to give us abroad outline and then I could perhaps ask you specific questions. I'd like you to tell the Committee exactly how commands and instructionswere dealt with.  How responsibilities were dealt with.  How muchresponsibility individuals in the hierarchy had.  Please giveus an outline.

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson may I ask are we concernedhere with political accountability for these deeds?

MR DU PLESSIS: No, just in general I would like to knowhow commands were dealt with in the Security Branch where youwere the head.

GEN VAN DER MERWE: As far as the Security Branchwas concerned above and beyond the police regulations we wouldalso issue orders of national importance and these orders wereconveyed to the divisional commanders by Headquarters.  Thesewould be national guidelines and within these guidelines eachdivisional commander would then determine his activities as circumstancesdemanded it.
 As a result of circumstances prevailing, which I have alreadymentioned, it was impossible to provide for rules and regulationscovering each and every situation and to give guidelines to thesecommanders.  We would only have done so where it was a matterof national importance and for 3B the/...
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the rest the divisional commander would have been responsiblefor dealing with these matters falling within his jurisdictionaccording to the circumstances prevailing.

MR DU PLESSIS: When you made your submission, General,you made it very clear how the situation was aggravated and howthe police became more and more desperate to try and suppressthe unrest, to control the situation and how certain acts werecommitted, could you explain to the Committee how policy relatingto conduct against the liberation movements were formulated, wherewas it formulated, how was it formulated and how was it disseminatedthrough the hierarchy?

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, as in the case ofthe other commands which I have mentioned the same would haveapplied here.  That means that all actions of national importance,and which were of such a nature that guidelines were necessaryon a national level, we would have formulated these at Head Officeand then conveyed to the various divisions.  But they in turnwould have had to judge independently how these instructions hadto be carried out.   But you must also bear in mind that thesedivisions were also involved in the joint management system whereinconsultation with the other departments and the information departmentsconsultations were held on how to combat the threats facing theState, and it was also expected that each department would, interms of those decisions, deal with these matters and combat thethreat.

MR DU PLESSIS: When the situation was exacerbated asyou set out, well you didn't mention any dates, but everybodyknows that it took place from about 1983 onwards.  The situationthen became much worse in the country as far as
3B general/...
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general unrest in South Africa was concerned.  In 1985 there wasa temporary state of emergency and in 1986 the state of emergencywas made permanent.

GEN VAN DER MERWE: That is correct.

MR DU PLESSIS: During that period can you recall anypolicy instructions or general instructions which came your wayas head of the Security Branch relating to dealing with this particularkind of situation and general conduct by the South African Policeto try and combat the threat to security?

GEN VAN DER MERWE: Yes.  On a regular basis therewere requests made.  I think the matter, one could almost saythe matter was dealt with on a weekly or monthly basis and reviewedon that basis and as the situation became worse obviously attemptswere made to try and combat the situation and to try and stabilisethe situation, and we looked at all kinds of options.   Apartfrom the instructions dealing with the state of emergency as suchand related matters where weren't any other specific instructionsthat I am aware of apart from the general instructions.

MR DU PLESSIS: General, what I would actually like tofind out from you is whether the instructions and requests asyou mentioned which came your way relating to the security issuein the country, was that based on the fact that you and your memberswere still to operate within the confines of the legal systemas extended by the emergency regulations, or did it entail morethan that?