Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.  Mr Hewit, do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MR HEWIT: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo, are you in a position to proceed or would you like us to take a tea adjournment now?

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, I wonder if I could intervene, I think it would be appropriate to take the tea adjournment at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hewit, I see it's ten to eleven and I agree with Mr Wills.

MR HEWIT: Yes, I have no difficulty with that Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now take the tea adjournment and we'll resume again at twenty past eleven.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR MBAMBO: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hewit, are you ready to proceed?

MR HEWIT: Mr Chairman, before I do, during the tea adjournment my learned friend Mr Ngubane approached me and informed me that he'd been approached by family members of the victims, of further victims, and as a result of that approach he had further questions which he wished to put to the applicant.  I have no objection if he finalises his questions before I proceed.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hewit.  Mr Ngubane?

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I do apologise for the inconvenience that this is causing.
	Mr Mbambo, do you recall that you testified about the attack on a house where a lady who was asleep was killed eSikhawini?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, I remember.

MR NGUBANE: Did you get that information as a result of a report or did you personally participate in that attack?

MR MBAMBO: I was not involved in the attack but I saw it.

MR NGUBANE: Would you then be in a position to dispute the fact that in fact the person who was killed in that house was not a female but it was one, Sipho Khumalo?

MR MBAMBO: I would not object of refute this.

MR NGUBANE: Do you know about the attack at the Umzumela family in Langezu?

MR MBAMBO: No, I do not.

MR NGUBANE: Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NGUBANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.  Mr Hewit?

MR HEWIT: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mbambo, you told us yesterday at some length that you were regarded as a hero by the IFP leadership and it's members for all the attacks you launched on the ANC and the UDF and the murders you committed, is that right?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: You also told us that you were constantly, after each operation, praised by and thanked by various people like Mrs Mbuaze, Brigadier Umzumela and various other high ranking people, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Now a Sergeant earns more than a Constable, doesn't he?

MR MBAMBO: Please repeat the questions?

MR HEWIT: A Sergeant in the police earns more than a Constable?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: And a Lieutenant earns more than a Sergeant?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: And a Major earns more than a Lieutenant?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: And so we go on right to the top of the pile to someone like Brigadier Umzumela who earns a lot more than all those people?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Now, you joined the police as a Constable, is that correct?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: By the time you were arrested and convicted and sentenced to imprisonment you were still a Constable?

MR MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: Did you ever ask these people who were so grateful for your activities, discuss with them the question of promotion to other higher ranks with more money?

MR MBAMBO: There would be discussions about it but not a ...[indistinct] that we were requesting it.

MR HEWIT: Didn't you want to advance, didn't you want some recognition for the hero status you say you had?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, we did.

MR HEWIT: Do I understand your last answer to be that you did deal with the question of promotion to higher ranks with more money with your superiors?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, it happened during discussions but we did not meet specifically to discuss promotions.

MR HEWIT: Well, did you ask Captain Langene if you were ever going to be promoted for the good work you were doing?

MR MBAMBO: I never asked Captain Langene.

MR HEWIT: Did you ever ask Brigadier Umzumela, he's pretty high ranking, did you ever ask him about promotion to higher ranks for the good works you were performing?

MR MBAMBO: I've never requested but he sometimes suggested it.

MR HEWIT: So why weren't you promoted?

MR MBAMBO: I have no idea.

MR HEWIT: Well, did he ask you to take a promotion to higher ranks, Brigadier Umzumela?

MR MBAMBO: During our conversation when he was recommending us on our activities, Brigadier Umzumela would say we shouldn't be concerned because shortly we would be becoming Warrant Officers.  It was seen that we were going to just become Warrant Officers.

MR HEWIT: When did you join the police?

MR MBAMBO: In 1990.

MR HEWIT: And when were you arrested and imprisoned?

MR MBAMBO: In July 1993.

MR HEWIT: And was July '93 the last time you ever performed any duties as a policeman?

MR MBAMBO: I stopped in April 1993.

MR HEWIT: And during that entire time you'd never received a single formal acknowledgement of the good work you've done, through a promotion or though it was suggested?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Did the same apply to Brian Mkhize?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is true.

MR HEWIT: He started as a Constable?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: And he ended his career as a Constable?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: Were you ever present when the question of his promotion was ever discussed?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is true.

MR HEWIT: Do you know why he also was never promoted?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR HEWIT: What's the reason for that?

MR MBAMBO: I don't know of the reason.

MR HEWIT: Did you never discuss the fact that your work was not being tangible acknowledged with promotions and more money?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Were you not interested in promotions?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, I did want to be promoted.

MR HEWIT: But you can't yet tell us why you weren't?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Did you receive sums of money like this person you mentioned, Umvuyana?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR HEWIT: Over and above your salary?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR HEWIT: How much money did you receive over and above your salary?

MR MBAMBO: Bebeyela the Mayor would sometimes sign a cash cheque for R1 000.  Mrs Mbuaze if I had requested money from her she would ask how much I needed, maybe I would be needing R100 at that time and she would give me the money.

MR HEWIT: Was this money that you just received for expenses in connection with various operations or was it in effect an extra salary or extra income you received for doing such good work?

MR MBAMBO: It was not a salary.  I would request the money if I needed it.

MR HEWIT: For expenses incurred for the operations?

MR MBAMBO: No, for my personal needs.

MR HEWIT: Well now, approximately how much do you say you received over and above your salary from the time you joined this hit squad until you were arrested?

MR MBAMBO: I would not be able to specify the amount because I received this money at various points in time and from various people.  The last amount we received, myself together with Xene from Chief Mataba.  Another amount that we received when we had already been arrested was from Prince Gideon Zulu, from the Mtuzini Court and he asked Mr Njose to give us this money, the amount was R200 for each of us.

MR HEWIT: So, are you able to give us any idea at all, over this period of time from 1990 to 1993, how much plus or minus you received extra over and above your salary?

MR MBAMBO: I would say ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I think Mr Hewit, you're talking about Mr Mbambo personally, the you is singular?

MR HEWIT: I'm only referring to the money that you received.