Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-06

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Did you have any - can you identify any other places that you had gathered intelligence on?

MR MCBRIDE: I can't remember them now, Sir.

ADV PRIOR: Were they also pubs or restaurants or hotels?

MR MCBRIDE: They may have been, I can't remember them now, Sir.

ADV PRIOR: Were they in the Marine Parade area or elsewhere?

MR MCBRIDE: I can't recall that specifically now, Sir.

ADV PRIOR: You said you considered the barracks at the CR Swart Square Police Station.

MR MCBRIDE: Yes, it was something we had discussed and considered at some stage, when we were in the area.

ADV PRIOR: Those are the single quarters, is that correct?

MR MCBRIDE: I wasn't sure which quarters they were, but single men unaccompanied by women came out of them.

ADV PRIOR: And you considered that too dangerous to get a car bomb close enough?

MR MCBRIDE: It wasn't a viable option in terms of the retreat after the operation and gaining access to it.

ADV PRIOR: It was put to you that there was in Ridge Road, on the corner of Ridge Road and Oakley Drive, on North Ridge Road, just after the tollgate, a substantial block of flats which housed the married police personnel.

MR MCBRIDE: I was unaware of that.

ADV PRIOR: Excelsior Court I understand is the name.

MR MCBRIDE: I was unaware of that one.

ADV PRIOR: Would you agree that there were many other suitable targets where high volumes of Security personnel would have been present at any particular time, day or night.

MR MCBRIDE: I'm not sure that the last one Sir that you mentioned would have been suitable in line with Rashid's equivocation that no kids should be injured.  It's a residential place.

ADV PRIOR: So strictly a residential cluster of buildings or a block of residential flats was not part of, or would have fallen outside the guidelines as you ...(intervention)

MR MCBRIDE: Ja, if you are using a car bomb, where kids can get injured.  If the instruction is "Kill them as they come out of there", the policemen that is, it would be a different case, if you want to shoot them or whatever, but given a car bomb ...

ADV PRIOR: As much as there's been some difficulty raised about the list of victims, injured people, apart from the three exhibits that you've tendered J, K and L, do you have any other information that suggests unequivocally that there was a large concentration or even some concentration of Security Force personnel at the Why Not bar on the evening when the bomb detonated?

MR MCBRIDE: Ja, it's Mr Davidson's conversation he had with my lawyer ...(intervention)

ADV PRIOR: Sorry, what was that?  That there were police ...(intervention)

MR MCBRIDE: It was a place for police to come and military personnel.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the question being asked by Mr Prior is, do you yourself have any knowledge as to whether Security Force personnel were in fact injured on the night of the 14th of June, as a result of the bomb blast?
	Is that the question?

ADV PRIOR: That's the question, thank you.

MR MCBRIDE: No, Sir, I don't.

ADV PRIOR: When you finally activated the bomb, that was round about quarter past nine on the Saturday evening, can you say whether the people at both bars, that's the Why Not and the magoo's bar, was full to the extent that patrons had spilled out into the foyer area of the hotel?  In other words, it was a very busy night.

MR MCBRIDE: That is possible, I don't recollect clearly now anything like that.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, if I may be permitted to just look at the extracts.

JUDGE PILLAY: Mr McBride, what day of the week would this have taken place?

MR MCBRIDE: The Saturday, Sir, Saturday evening.

JUDGE PILLAY: Saturday.  Ja, but what time?  Would you have ...(intervention)

MR MCBRIDE: Half past nine.

JUDGE PILLAY: You would have planted that bomb to explode at half past nine?

MR MCBRIDE: Between half past nine - from half past nine onwards.

JUDGE PILLAY: And have you any idea when it in fact did?

MR MCBRIDE: I think quarter to ten.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you.  I understand part of the explanation why the 14th of June was chosen, why not the 16th of June?

MR MCBRIDE: Because the ...

ADV PRIOR: Wouldn't that have been a more fitting or an appropriate time to commemorate the 10th anniversary of June 16?

MR MCBRIDE: Well I think it's more in line with the Kabwe Conference and the previous attack by the apartheid regime's Forces in Botswana, which brought about, which really precipitated the policy change by the ANC, and it was more a commemoration of that at that stage, but since June the 16th was two days away it was combined as, with the same objective.

ADV PRIOR: Would it have made any difference whether it went off on June the 16th?

MR MCBRIDE: Well I think I'd answer the question a different way.  If there wasn't this attack two days before the Kabwe Conference, it might have been different.

ADV PRIOR: No irrespective, was the order that it had to - was your instruction that it had to be detonated on June the 14th?

MR MCBRIDE: June the 14th, that's correct.

ADV PRIOR: And that came from Mr Ismail?

MR MCBRIDE: That's correct, yes.  As much as was viably possible.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, there's just two aspects, but they relate to the book.  Possibly we can deal with ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I see it's past 4 o'clock.  We'll adjourn now until tomorrow morning at half past nine.

MR DEHAL: Mr Chairman, could I ask for an indulgence to begin at ten tomorrow, I have a prior commitment which I hope will finish by nine thirty.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, we'll adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS