Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: The purpose of interrogations was in two
2B parts/...
169 BRIG CRONJE
parts, (a) intimidation, (b) to obtain information.  When activistswere interrogated they were intimidated to desist from their actionsand also to inform other activists that they will be combattedwith every means and interrogated with every means.  They hadto understand the message that we were serious in our actionsagainst them.  These are activists who were not eliminated bylater released.  During interrogations and when certain informationhad been obtained there was an effort to convince activists andterrorists to become informants for the security police.  Theseactivists and terrorists who turned were the most effective wayto combat the purposes of the liberation movements.  A strikingexample is Joe Mamasela, as is clear from these applications.
 Askaris.  These are terrorists who became informants ...(tapeends)
of warfare by agents, insurgents, activists and terrorists.  Informationwith regard to structures of command, lines of command, intelligencechannels were of the greatest importance.  Without effective interrogationtechniques no network of information would have been obtained.
 To combat the total onslaught interrogation had to be effectivewith regard to the obtaining of information.  Information wasobtained with regard to potential acts of terror, their planningand their execution.  Successful counter-strategies and preventativemeasures were then possible with the help of this information. Information with regard to activists were obtained also by meansof interrogation.  The interrogative methods was a means to anend.  Any effective method was acceptable in the context of warand the total onslaught.
2B The/...
170 BRIG CRONJE
 The purpose of these actions was to destabilise the liberationmovements.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman that is the general motivation. I don't want him to go ahead with the motivation of this specificincident.  Mr Chairman if you will just bear with me for one momentplease.  Mr Chairman the third category, namely bomb explosionswas not dealt with by Brigadier Cronje in his application specifically. It was, however, dealt with in some of the other witnesses' applicationsand I will then lead the evidence pertaining to that.  I can leadit obviously with Brigadier Cronje, perhaps that would be themore prudent way of doing that if you would allow me to do that.

CHAIRPERSON: If he can give evidence on the matter thenhe must do so.

UNKNOWN: Yes he has knowledge, the only problemis that it's not contained in his application.  May I beg leaveto hand up an application of Warrant Officer van Vuuren whereit is dealt with so that he can read that into the record.  Iwill refer you to the correct page now.

UNKNOWN: On what page are you?

UNKNOWN: Page 21.

UNKNOWN: Page 21 of Van Vuuren's application.

CHAIRPERSON: That deals with intimidation.

UNKNOWN: You will see it's headed "Die doelvan bombe aanvalle was twee lede".  That's the third categorybomb explosions in respect of a general motivation.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Could you then read from page 21 whereit reads "Die doel van bomb aanvalle", could you readthat into the record.
3A

UNKNOWN: /...
171 BRIG CRONJE

UNKNOWN: The purpose of bombings were in two parts,intimidation and disinformation.
 With regard to intimidation activists and their supporters knewthat if they were involved in unrest throwing of petrol bombsand other general destabilisation in a particular area they ortheir property would be attacked by means of a bomb or petrolbomb.  If activists became too well-known or militant or veryeffectively encouraged the consciousness of freedom or for freedomof a particular community they would necessarily have receiveda bomb and their supporters would have had a strong intuitionwith regard to the source of the bomb.  This would have discouragedthem from supporting freedom movements since they would not haveknown who was next on the list.  Activists and their supportersdid specifically believe that it was the security police who werebombing them and burning down their houses if they became activelyand successfully involved.  This action was successful insofaras it discouraged political activists from getting involved indestabilising activities.
 With regard to disinformation it was presented to the generalpublic that this was simply Black on Black violence which destabilisedthe country, particularly in Black living areas and that it wasa power struggle amongst Blacks.  This encouraged the fear ofWhites with regard to the possibility of actions which could haveentered their living areas.  This created the perception thatSouth Africa was in a life and death struggle.  
 Voters were encouraged in view of the Black power to vote forthe National Party and to maintain it in power.  This disinformationsystem worked.  The intention of this 
3A action/...
172 BRIG CRONJE
action was to counter the ANC and other strong freedom movementsin their revolutionary onslaught against apartheid, to discouragethem.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman that deals with the generalevidence of Brigadier Cronje as background evidence.  I see thereis about five minutes to one o'clock, perhaps it would be a goodtime to take the adjournment, if that would suit you.

CHAIRPERSON: The hearing will adjourn.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr du Plessis.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Brigadier CronjeI want to ask you one last question, this general kind of instructionthat you received from Brigadier Victor, let me rather ask youin Afrikaans.  This general order which you received from BrigadierVictor which you explained to us are you aware, was it your perceptionwhether this was applicable throughout the country, was that thesituation in the whole country?

UNKNOWN: I have already said on page 16 that as faras I am aware the same action was taken throughout the country,for instance the Motherwell bomb explosion case, Trustfeed caseand the Pepco 3.  There had to be instructions from somewhereto authorise those actions.

UNKNOWN: You are not personally aware of thoseinstructions?

UNKNOWN: No it's just the assumption that I am making.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman I have no further questions. Mr Mpshe and I have had a discussion about the situation andespecially the evidence which we want to present now in
3A respect/...
173 BRIG CRONJE
respect of Colonel Venter.  We want to raise with the Committeethe possibility that Brigadier Cronje should be cross-examinedin respect of his evidence when he testifies about every incidentwhen he is called, that he is not cross-examined now.  We havealso discussed it with the legal representatives and I believenobody has objection against that.  That would enable us to startwith Colonel Venter and specifically the Pepco 3 incident whichhas become urgent now, if that would...... 
 I may just mention Mr Chairman that in respect of the Pepco 3incident members of the family and legal representatives havecome all the way from Port Elizabeth and it's going to incur extracosts if we run into tomorrow.  That's the only reason why wewant to do it now.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I think it is an imminently sensible suggestionthat the cross-examination of the witness should be postponeduntil after he has given evidence in his own application.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman. I have then nofurther questions for the witness.  If he may stand down.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS STANDS DOWN