Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-18

MARY BURTON: Our next witness is Mr Raymond Douse, would you please come to the platform Mr Douse and Ms Seroke will be facilitating your story and we may run a little late into our tea break time, but I hope we will aim to be finished as soon after 1030 as can be possible.
 Good morning Mr Douse.

MR DOUSE: Good morning.

MARY BURTON: Do you - do you want the earphones or are you all right.

MR DOUSE: I am all right.

MARY BURTON: Would you stand please to take the oath.
RAYMOND DOUSE Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much.

MS SEROKE: Morning Mr Raymond Douse.

MR DOUSE: Good morning lady.

MS SEROKE: Are you going to testify in English or in Xhosa or Afrikaans, which language would you prefer?

MR DOUSE: Well I think I'll be testifying in Xhosa.

MS SEROKE: Okay.

MR DOUSE: Yes.

MS SEROKE: We are going to be talking about  Soyisile Douse, were you the older brother or the younger brother  [indistinct]    Was Soyisile your younger brother or your  elder brother?

MR DOUSE: He as a younger brother.

MS SEROKE: Okay, I would - in a few words I am going to summarise this situation at the time.   [indistinct] people killed and ten injured on January the  16th 1988 in Bhongolethu, Oudtshoorn by David Sibango who  was a kitskonstabel and others.  
 I want in a few words Raymond - just tell us the reason of this tragedy that prefer your younger brother by shooting.

MR DOUSE: Firstly I don't want to tell lies about this situation about Soyisile's situation.  Soyisile wasn't with me, however, what he did he came to me for the first time to tell me that he met - met kitskonstabels this kitskonstabels -  the previous before the day before they shoot him, they asked for tobacco from him and he didn't give it to them, and they quarrelled over that.
After that quarrel they disbursed each one his one way, I am in my own place and Soyisile stays with his  mother in the old location.  I heard when I  was on my way to church the other day, some kids who shouted at me and said, there Soyisile is lying there, he has been shot by David Sibango - David Sibango.  I was driving my car and when I  turned on my way to them - to see - to have a look at this - then there was this other kitskonstabels together with other - two other white and then I - a gun was pointed at me by one of the kitskonstabels and he said - here is this  dog, and I am also  to  [indistinct] and then he used very obscene words.
And this  kitskonstabels name was said  to be Skhumbuzo.  He called me names by my mother.  The white one stopped him and said don't - don't shoot him, then they said I  could go - I said no, I can't go, I just want to  find out what the problem was.  At that time Soyisile was down on the ground and the  sun is - face is hanging on his  face and then they  turned him around and he - as he was lying on his side and then they turned him around and his  face was up, facing the sun and he was lying on his back so that the blood should not move, because they shot him on the side, at the left.
 [indistinct] and I then ran to my car because this one wanted to shoot me, this one called Skhumbuzo and David was just standing over the corpse and then I  went on - as I was going towards Bhongolethu, there was some people from Bhongolethu  who were coming back and they could see the  [indistinct]  [indistinct] and the  [indistinct] there, the son of - and two Coloureds who were also shot, they were also in that tragedy, which took place on that day when Soyisile was shot.
When I wanted to go and find out from the police what the reason was for the shooting of my younger brother, I was told that I should go to town.  There at Bhongolethu there was a police station at the time, they told me to go to town.  I didn't go to town, I went to the hospital and that's where I  saw the three corpses.
I just want to say to the Truth Commission maybe my statement may be different from the one that I gave for the first time, because I  don't remember all this things in my  mind, because I  just  [indistinct] of them and it's a long time, since this happened, regarding the death of Soyisile.
I just want to say that's all I can remember about my  younger brother.   Amongst the papers that we have here it is said that on the 10th of February 1988  there was someone who killed - who killed a kitskonstabel his name was Bangi Salman it is alleged that a few days thereafter the kitskonstabels in their  anger, angry because one off  them - one of their colleagues that they  decided to take it on the people and Soyisile was one of them.
Do you - do you understand it that way?

MS SEROKE: Yes I understand it very clearly.

MR DOUSE: That is the truth Bangi Salman was killed by another person I - who's name I  can't mention, maybe it's known and then when that Sibango said they are going to revenge because a colleague of them can't just die and that's why I think that was the revenge -  he was carrying out the revenge on my brother.

MS SEROKE: Soyisile - did he belong to any organisation at the time?

MR DOUSE: Soyisile was not a member of  any organisation, he was just someone, I  don't know how to put it.  He was someone who  use to just to get drunk and then from time to time he would go to those meetings  - our meetings but they were not full meetings at that time, because we were being chased around by the former Government that was in power then.
 At Bhongolethu  special, we were living very sad and difficult life in those days, so much so that I had  - at the time I had a shop, that shop  - there was a Captain Marx who - who  was - who was very  active at the time.  He said he was going to close my shop because I was one of the UDF members and he said he knew I  was a member of the UDF and that there were many things that there was stolen from my shop.  There was a number of stolen goods in my  shop and that's how we lived at that time.
 I don't want to say much about some of the things, some of them are forgotten, I  don't want to make a detailed description.

MS SEROKE: As you are describing this situation in Bhongolethu at  the time, were you - do you think this kitskonstabels and this police, what were their views, as far as you think about people - about people in the community.

MR DOUSE: Their aim was to perpetrate the needs of the apartheid regime of the time because the Government didn't want people -  black people to live peacefully and decently in South Africa.  Those were the aims of the Government of the day.

MS SEROKE: On the aims of those Governments as you as the civilians of Bhongolethu, what were your aims about this Government views?

MR DOUSE: Our views was to  fight for  freedom.   It's there I  want to recommend the youth of Bhongolethu in Oudtshoorn, because we old people at that time of  struggle, we were afraid we were only in action during the nights, there were places that we were not even want to been seen in  especially I  for one. 
 As from 1968 when I was joining the ANC organisation there was - there is a - there was a school in  [indistinct] and - and there was a hollow that ran water, we were holding our meetings there, lying on our tummies.  We use to light candles if we are reading the letters from Cape Town etcetera.  We were trying our best to fight for the freedom of the black people.
 But in 1984/85 our youth in Bhongolethu, they have seen that they need to fulfil the needs of the youth in this country and they need the freedom  and they supported us as parents and they were the one's who died at that time.

MS SEROKE: Was Soyisile one of the youth who was trying to get freedom?

MR DOUSE: Yes he was one of them - Soyisile was one of them, the one of the Freedom Fighters that we - the freedom that we are having today.  His death was very sad, but today some of us are going to eat the fruits of his death, fighting for  freedom.