Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-03

CHAIRPERSON: Was that the last time you saw her alive?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, that was the last day I saw her.

MR MADASA: On the day preceding the massacre, are you aware of any events that occurred which led to the massacre on the following day?

CHAIRPERSON: Why don't you simply ask him the question: "Do you know what led to the massacre"?  Isn't that what you want to find out?
	Mr Sonti, we know that on the 7th of December 1993 approximately 8 persons were shot at and killed in the veld somewhere in Katlehong, you know that?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know why those people were killed?
	Is that the question you want to ask?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, I know Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you tell us?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I think 15 minutes must have lapsed and we heard a whistle being blown and this whistle blow was an indication that something was wrong as the community of Moleleki Extension 2 knew that when such a whistle blows there was trouble.
	We rushed to the scene in block F, just a distance from Bulelwa's place.  She was already lying on the street at which place we found Mr Mkwena, to whom I have already referred and Mr Buthelezi, about whom we have spoken and the block F community.
	We asked what the problem was and people started explaining that they saw three men, one of whom was wearing a white T-shirt.  Those were said to be the people who started the problem.  And they said to the community that now that she is dead a request was made Sepo Baloi to try and find the Red Cross to come and pick up the woman's corpse.
	He was accompanied by comrade Ntjebe Ndondolo to notify zone 5 as well so that zone 5 and Moleleki Extension 2 was an earlier place I think, to notify them that something had already gone wrong.  There was a meeting prior to that in the previous day on the 5th of December which meeting was convened in block F.	
	After rumours that Amaxhosa in Katorus wanted to lead, they must start with Moleleki Extension 2 to chase them out of Katorus.  I became part of certain comrades in the organisation in the group to be part of that meeting.  They were not talking about block F.  Meetings were held on Sundays ...[intervention]

MR MADASA: Sorry, who called that meeting you are referring to on the 5th of December?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I would like to say Mr Chair, as I have already explained that block F was already not part of these other blocks in the formation of its own structure.  On that very Sunday on which we attended the meeting, that is when this was to be discussed.

MR MADASA: Do you know who had called that meeting?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I remember the meetings chairman because the entire block F community had attended the meeting.  Myself and my companion, Ntjebe Ndondolo and William and Miagetsi Ramabele and Albert Moloi of block F were members of the self-defence unit that existed at that time.
The person who was chairing the meeting was George Mokwena of 8552 block E where this was this other Mokwena, there's many Mokwena's in that area, and Mr Buthelezi.  And many other comrades, some of whom are here applying for amnesty, came from block F.

MR MADASA: What was resolved at that meeting?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Mr Chairman, previously pamphlets were distributed indicating to a meeting to be attended at the end of the week and in that particular meeting I was not called with these other three people, myself being the fourth one but because of rumours we went to block F.
	When we arrived before the meeting commenced we were withdrawn by the person who was chairing the meeting, whose name I have already mentioned as George Mokwena of 8552 block E.  What he said, I would like it to be interpreted in English.  He was standing on a rock: "Comrades and compatriots, can we discuss our problems here at block F whilst there are some observers".
	He made certain people raise their hands.  As they raised their hands ...[indistinct] they opposed the three that was called observers.  Myself, Ramabele, Ntjebe were requested to say because we do not belong in block F we are then therefore requested to be released.  	And there was ...[indistinct] between this small group and the rest, those of block F.  This small group is the one that said we may not.  Most of the people were happy about the reason of our coming and it was indicated that we cannot discuss our problems in block F when there were people from other blocks in the meeting.
	The youth that was there at the time, about 500 metres away from where the meeting was being held had their own meeting where there were girls, younger girls.  I was requested to leave and other people were not happy about the idea, wondering if they know what reason brought us there.  
	One person whom I listened very carefully was Mr Buthelezi who said: "People who do not stay in block F must leave and attend their own meetings in their respective blocks".  Mr Moloi stayed behind in the meeting as he was part of block F under the self-defence unit in that area of Moleleki Extension 2, 1993.
	In the evening of that very same day on Sunday the 5th we had ...[indistinct] members of the self-defence unit in zone 5.  It had already been heard and understood that there was going to be a confrontation between people in Extension 2 and the youth.  We decided on time and by the time we left Mr Moloi we requested him to make the necessary announcement notifying the necessary people that we wanted to be brought together with the ANC Youth Members.  
	We decided on 8 o'clock, 7 o'clock at the usual meeting place in Moleleki Extension 2.  If I am not mistaken it is called: "People's Park". That's where we used to meet people from A,B,C,D,E,F where problems effecting that community were discussed.

CHAIRPERSON: The confrontation that was expected, was that going to be between block F, residents on the one hand and blocks A,B,C,D and E on the other hand?  Is that how the - whether the groups which were going to be involved in the conflict.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Would you please repeat your question?

CHAIRPERSON: I gather from you that at that stage it was known that there was going to be a confrontation between the ANC Youth League and the SDU, is that how you understood the position?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, I want to say that Sir, because in the first instance the members that I had already referred to, those of the ANC Youth League ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may continue.

MR MAPOMA: Did that meeting materialise, the one which was called between the ANC Youth League and the SDU to discuss the anticipated trouble?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: The meeting did not materialise.  It did not continue because Mr Mokwena arrived, who stays in block F in 8963 and Mr Ndlovo whose name I don't know of 8961, block F.  They came up with this information sent by the ANC Youth League to come and apologise.  They had an urgent meeting to attend on that very same day.
	The self-defence unit therefore went to wait until they were contacted by the Youth League.  Zone 5 had already arrived for the meeting at The People's Park.  I rushed to the place to inform members of the self-defence unit together with the Committee that was in zone 5, notifying them that the Youth is apologising.

MR MAPOMA: What did you make of this youth apology?  Did you think it was genuine or what did you think about it?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I think they were not genuine because they did not know what we were going to discuss.  Maybe even though they may have known they may have already planned.  Their apology was just a hasty thing that was happening because they had already planned for something else.

CHAIRPERSON: This meeting was scheduled for the 5th of December, was it?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, that is so.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, carry on.  And then?