Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct because Prince Gideon Zulu was not able to address a rally.  Secondly they had clearly indicated that the ANC was still very strong at eSikhawini such that the IFP were forced to give yet another instruction to the effect that we should change the strategy that we were using of assassinating one ANC leader after another.  We should just hit the mobs, attack all of these areas known to be ANC areas and the IFP leaders at eSikhawini and surroundings were now shamed that they were not doing their job properly.

MR WILLS: I've heard comments in discussions about this particular attack and from the ANC side they claim that on that particular day, that is on that rally on the 16th February 1992, they regarded it as the day in eSikhawini when the ANC defeated the IFP.  Would you regard that as an accurate assessment?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that would be correct.

MR WILLS: Shortly after that meeting, I know in your affidavit - sorry that rally - in your affidavit you can't be specific about the dates but a meeting was called at Shlangalane Hall where certain people were present and Mr Mkhize has referred to this meeting so I don't think it's necessary to dwell on it but in your affidavit you indicate that there was Chief Mataba, Mrs Umbiasi, Mayor B.B. Biela, Mr G.L. Mkhize whom you've indicated is deceased, Mr Brian Mkhize, Victor Buthelezi and yourself and you think that, but not sure, that Mr Zwele Dlamini was also present and Mkhize has indicated that at that stage the attack on the IFP rally was discussed and also people were targeted at that meeting, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes. That is correct.

MR WILLS: And you confirm what Mkhize has said in regard to the fact that there were certain KwaZulu Policemen and namely E.N. Nsinga, Captain Manzini and Sergeant Dlamini, Captain Masinga who were put on a list of persons to be assassinated?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.  That is correct.

MR WILLS: And you also confirm what Mr Mkhize says that this was because of various beliefs that they in some way were supporting the ANC?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: There has been a lot of evidence so you must listen carefully to my question and correct me if I'm not leading you correctly but my recollection of Mr Mkhize's evidence was in relation to Masinga, the reason why Masinga was going to be targeted in this way was simply - or the main reason was that he was busy doing a job and arresting perpetrators of violence, some of those being IFP supporters?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now my inference from that would be that if a person was to arrest IFP persons who were perpetrating in this violence he would run into serious problems?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.  That is correct, he would also be killed as well.

MR WILLS: So essentially, the KwaZulu Police could not protect the community broadly?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No because the IFP followers as a whole knew that the KwaZulu Police were their police such that they refer to them as uncles.  Even elder members within the IFP - a person of the age of seventy example, myself being twenty two for example, if a person didn't know that I was a KwaZulu Police he would call me an uncle.

MR WILLS: You mentioned some of the names that Mr Mkhize mentioned in paragraph 25 of your affidavit and paragraph 26 and you've included I think in the main all of the ones that Mr Mkhize has mentioned, there might be one or two more.  I'm wanting to concentrate on paragraph 27 of your affidavit.  You say, and I quote:  "The police officials mentioned above were to be eliminated by a hit squad because it was thought by the IFP leadership" and this is the part that interests me at this moment in time, you refer to a Mr Mzuza, a Mrs Joyce Matenjwa
and a Mrs Matshale in that - to carry on - now those persons haven't really been mentioned.  Can you explain who they were?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Mr Mzuzu was a councillor and an IFP member residing at J1.  His house had been attacked several times.  Mrs Joyce Matenjwa was an IFP leader at eSikhawini and had a house at J2.  She is the mother of Mandwengo, the Mandwengo known to kill ANC members.  Mrs Umbiasi was also a councillor and a Chairperson of the IFP at eSikhawini.

MR WILLS: No, Mr Mbambo, we know the other names, I'm just interested in the names that haven't come up.  Who was Mrs Matjali?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Mrs Matjali was also an IFP councillor at H1 near the police station.  She was one of the reasons why Begintuli was eventually attacked because there was a belief that her house had been attacked at H1 - it was because of Begintuli.

MR WILLS: Okay so if for the benefit of the councillors - the Committee Members to be briefed - all of the persons who you mention in paragraph 27 would therefore form part of the IFP local leadership at eSikhawini, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so except for Chief Mataba whom I haven't mentioned in this paragraph.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now you confirm I think as Mkhize - well can you confirm what Mkhize says and I think you confirm it in your affidavit at 29, where later on another meeting was held at Ulundi and basically the contents of the meeting that you'd held at Shlangalane Hall with the local leadership was confirmed with the senior hit squad hierarchy at Ulundi and that included Hlungwane - Captain Hlungwane, M.Z. Khumalo, Mandla Induna whom we know is Mr Luthuli - those people, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And at that meeting people that were sanctioned by the local leadership list were in fact - the go ahead was given to assassinate these people with the exception I think of Detective Sergeant Khumalo at this stage.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And the decision a regards Khumalo was to investigate further is that right?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now in paragraph 30 you touch on an area that has also been raised by Mr Luthuli in his evidence and in fact Mr Mkhize and that is the training of other IFP members.  Now Mr Luthuli's evidence to be brief was that effectively those persons who were trained would go into their communities and they would train the IFP youth in order that they would also be utilised in a military sense to participate in what has been referred to as this war against the ANC, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And is it correct that you participated in this training after you yourself were trained?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And to that extent you list persons that you trained in paragraph 31 and that is people from Port Danford, people from Kwadlangezwa and people from Insingwene, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now was it expected that these people who you trained would stay at the place where you trained them, I think you mentioned that you trained them in the Port Danford area?  Sorry, where did you train them?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I trained them at Port Danford and sometimes I would also train them at my house.  I would also take them to the shooting range at Richards Bay and thereafter they would return to their areas, their own areas.

MR WILLS: Yes that basically confirms what Mr Luthuli said that the plan was that these people would be trained and returned to their areas in order to operate in their areas, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And to the best of your knowledge and I'm going to read the names of these people, you say the people from Port Danford were Mabuso Gwala, Mkhize who you say is now deceased, Kolani Nkosei, Lungane Induduzi - you've referred to also as Ndukatzi and Latzi.  Did those people return to the Port Danford area?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And do you know if they conducted any operations in that area?