Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I was released from the cell on the day, it was at two o'clock, two am, I heard my name being called. They said Beti Phulula. I got out. When I got out I saw that there was a van, a police van outside. I got in. They said go in "kaffer".  Still, they still continued beating me up.  This one, my cell mate, they did the same thing to him, they beat him up again.  Then there was another man from another
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cell but I think he was from Ciskei.  Then we were three in this police van.  While I was still looking at that, there were women now, four women coming from the women's side.  They were put in the cell that we were.  Nobody was asking anyone about anything.  I just said to the other men, now we are going to be killed.  I said these people who are pretending to be preachers and believers of God are now going to kill us, Dlamini, let's pray our own prayers, let us use our ancestors' God, Khamata. Then we started to pray in the police van.  The van went on. It passed through De Aar.  It went through Prieska.  I said to Dlamini, Dlamini, I am looking for, I just want to escape, do you know any place here.  
 We came across a big river. I said to Dlamini, where are we going.  He said to me, you see, Duma, when we are here, we are going into the Ovambos, to the Ovambo area, which is in the North West, in the South West Africa.  When we get there, when we get out we must just grab their guns, we must not give them any chance, we must just grab their guns. Even if one us gets shot, but let us just grab their guns.  Then what happened.  We went through another town which I think was for Vendas.  I did not know these places. I used to ask Dlamini next to me.  We got there around half past one. That was now in Tzaneen.  I can still have its picture in my head.  They put in petrol into their car.  They said to us here are Xhosa-speaking men. They said to us you guys are going to be killed, you are not going back to your homes.  That's when I started being shocked.  They said what are you saying, I said what are you saying. They said there have been many Xhosa people who have been passing here, they don't come back, you are also not coming back; I 
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am advising you Xhosa people, when these lions approach you, do not run away from them, because they are used to this.  Don't run away from these lions, you are going to be introduced to some lions. I said to Dlamini, let's pray again.  Then we started to pray together with these four women.  
 The police van passed the Tzaneen town. I again asked Dlamini.  Dlamini said no, we are in Angola.  This is now Angola and this is Maputo in front of us.  That other side is Tzitzikamma. I said where are we being taken to Dlamini, where are we going to be killed at, are they taken us so far away that even our families cannot even retrieve us any more.
 Anyway, the van continued. It went deep into the forest. It went on and on and on. Now Dlamini told me that we are now very near Maputo.  It stopped and it was trying to station properly.  It was now facing back where we were from. It was not around three pm.

MS MAYA: Excuse me, I would like to interrupt you, Sir.  Is there anyone here in this hall called Phila Xhomba?
 You can go on, Sir.

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I was again called Beti Phulula. Then I got out of the van. We were all called by our names.  There were three boers and then they said you said Cape Town is your country, now that is not your country, this is your country.  There are many dogs around here, they are going to guide you, so you can build up your houses here, build your new homes in this place.  I said Dhlamini, it looks like our plan is not going to work.  What kind of a place is this where you are asked to build homes in? These are forests.  We were put in a forest. They didn't leave us any food in
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this forest, we were just dropped there.

MS MAYA: Were there any people in this forest?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: No, there were no people.

MS MAYA: When was the last time you saw people in this whole distance that you had travelled?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: The last time we saw people was somewhere in the town.  We would see scattered houses, belonging to the Tshanganese. Then we were taken off into the deepest part of the forest.  Then we were told on the other side it was Maputo and the other side it was Angola and the other side it was Tzitzikamma.  I said you know, Dhlamini, do you know these places.  Dhlamini said yes, I know these places.
 Now these boers said to us you "kaffers", this is where you are supposed to be now. You must never put your foot in Cape Town, build your homes in here, never go back to Cape Town.  Then they left us there.
 I said to the other men, are you aware that we are going to be left here now, among these lions.  Let us kneel down and pray again, before we make any further moves.  We did.  We knelt down and we prayed.  After that let's retrace our steps, let's use the wheels, the tracks of the wheels and go back.  We did that.  
 After a short distance we saw these lions.  When I saw the first one, I said to myself oh, these are the lions that the Tshingaans had told us about.  We were told not to run, we were only told that we must look at the lion. At that time we were only urinating ourselves, there was no control at all, because we were frightened. We all did this. We didn't have even one single half a weapon with us.

MS MAYA: What time was it by now, Sir?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: It was now after three pm.
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MS MAYA: How long did you look at this lion?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: After a time this lion simply just ran away, it turned around and it left and it started to roar. There were the others now that started to approach.  But now these lions turned back so we continued walking. We walked until the following morning.
 When we got into the town at around eight am, I went to go and buy five loaves of bread.  This is the money that I had with me the time I was arrested. When this man saw this money, he looked at my money as if it wasn't real money. But then he took it and we got the bread and we ate. We didn't walk a long distance. We just walked a short distance.

MS MAYA: Is that how you survived from these lions?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, that's how we survived from the lions.  I am sure that the boers think that we were killed by the lions.  They told themselves that we were dead.  Because there were many who went there who had been taken to that forest, people were made meals for those lions. But because of the advice that we got from the Tshangaans we survived.

MS MAYA: Now when you got to Tzaneen you were fortunate to get employment at a contractor in Tzaneen.

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, that's correct. I said to Dhlamini, let's see if we can't get any employment in this town, because we can't go back home barefoot.  So we left the other ones. Dhlamini and myself went to look for a job at the contractor. When we got there we got employment. They even got us houses to stay inside the premises of the contractor. I had a small amount of money with me but I left some of it with these other ones that were with us, especially the women, so that they can try and take care of themselves.  Then Dhlamini and I continued working with the contractor.
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MS MAYA: So when did you come back home?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I came back home in 1966.

MS MAYA: And since you left Cape Town in 1965?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: That's right, then I came back in 1966. I went back home.

MS MAYA: Are there any details which we have left out of your story?  If you have any details we can conclude.