Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

MS F MOLETE: He asked us which transport we used, then we said we used the kombi.  He wanted to know the owner of the kombi, we explained everything to him.  We were well-received by him.  There was mutual understanding between ourselves and then we explained to him, we told him about the owner of the car and then he said to us: "I will got and fetch you, or I will call you so that my people should not get heavy sentences because they don't want to, or they deny that whites were involved".

MR BERGER: And were you ever called to give evidence in the criminal trial?

MS F MOLETE: No.

MR BERGER: Did anyone ever ask you to give evidence in the criminal trial?

MS F MOLETE: The place I went to is the Goldstone Commission.  That is the only place.

MR BERGER: No, but my question is, did anyone ever ask you to give evidence at the criminal trial?

MS F MOLETE: No, Sir.

MR BERGER: Did you ever refuse to give evidence at the criminal trial?

MS F MOLETE: Mr Berger, I have never been to court.

MR BERGER: Did you refuse to give evidence at the criminal trial?

MS F MOLETE: I don't remember me being called to give evidence in court, it's only Mr Strydom who said to us he will call us.

MR BERGER: But he never did?

MS F MOLETE: Till today he hasn't called us.  We were also surprised why we are not being called.

MR BERGER: Thank you, Ms Molete.  I have not further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, Chair.
	Whilst you were telling what happened to you that specific night, you followed a certain sequence but you left out that you saw a person whom you thought to be white.  At a later stage my learned friend asked you:
"Did you see any white people?"
And then you started telling about this white person.  Now I want to know, why did you leave that portion of your evidence out initially when you followed your sequence of what happened?

MS F MOLETE: Mr Berger was always telling me to be slow, stopping me at times.

MR STRYDOM: But do you agree that when you told the story initially, you left out the portion about the person you thought to be white and later on you were asked about this person and then you gave evidence about it?

MS F MOLETE: What I'm saying is, while I was still testifying, Mr Berger would say to me I should slow down, so when I start again I would not start where I ended.

MR BERGER: For the record, Ms Molete did mention the person standing outside her shack, in ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I think what is being put to the witness is that she only mentioned the white person after you had specifically asked her whether she had seen a white person.

MR BERGER: Yes, but the person that she mentioned, who was white, was mentioned earlier, although his colour was not mentioned.

CHAIRPERSON: But she did not say that person was white.

MR BERGER: Indeed.

MR STRYDOM: The question really is, did you forget about the white person you saw, when you gave your version in sequence initially?

MS F MOLETE: I did not forget about this white person because this happened to me.  I was going to say that.  Because I was speaking fast, that is why I am asking for an apology because I was speaking fast.

MR STRYDOM: When after the attack was the first time you told any official about what happened to you in Boipatong and what you saw?

MS F MOLETE: I don't understand your question, Sir.

MR STRYDOM: Let me break it up.  According to you, you were attacked and you were injured during the night of the attack is that right?

MS F MOLETE: Yes, Sir.

MR STRYDOM: Now you went to the hospital, is that correct?

MS F MOLETE: I went to the hospital in the morning.

MR STRYDOM: Now after you came back from hospital, did you go to the police or to the Peace Desk or to any official, to explain to them what happened during the night of the attack?

MS F MOLETE: No, I went home because I was in pain and my shack was also down.

MR STRYDOM: I understand that, but did you go to lay a charge or a complaint to anybody, at a later stage when you felt better?

MS F MOLETE: Only my brothers and sisters knew about this and the community of Boipatong as well.  I never went to lay a charge anywhere.

MR STRYDOM: Was there not some kind of forum in Boipatong after the attack, which you could go to, which was not the police, where you could tell them about what happened to you?

MS F MOLETE: Can you please explain because I don't understand what you mean.

MR STRYDOM: I will.  Do you know the ANC Peace Desk?

MS F MOLETE: No, I don't know.

MR STRYDOM: So according to you, you did not go to any person or any place to tell them your story or to lay a complaint?

MS F MOLETE: No, Sir, I don't remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was this Peace Desk?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, according to me there was a Peace Desk in Boipatong set up after the attack, where people could go and tell their story and can complain.  I can't tell the location, but if I remember correctly a school was mentioned, but I'm talking under correction.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you aware of any place in Boipatong, where the residents of Boipatong could go and tell what happened to them during the attack?

MS F MOLETE: Do you mean after the attack or every day even before the attack?

CHAIRPERSON: No, that is after the attack.

MS F MOLETE: There was no place where we went to, because we had to bury and transport my brother-in-law's box, so we didn't have enough time for such things.  I never went to any place of that nature.

CHAIRPERSON: Not necessarily the day after, but subsequent to the attack.  You're not aware of that place?

MS F MOLETE: I don't remember going to people and discussing this.  I don't remember.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you.  You mentioned the Goldstone Commission, did you go to give evidence at the Goldstone Commission?

MS F MOLETE: Yes, I went there to give evidence.

MR STRYDOM: And did you in fact give evidence?

MS F MOLETE: Yes, that was in Vereeniging.

MR STRYDOM: Who asked you to go to the Goldstone Commission to give that evidence?

MS F MOLETE: Other women came and took the statements from us and they took us to the Goldstone Commission.

MR STRYDOM: And that was shortly after the attack, is that correct?

MS F MOLETE: We had already buried the dead.  If I remember well, well I cannot remember because it happened many years ago, but the only thing that I remember, we had already buried our dead.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but the point is, you gave a statement or statements to somebody before you went to the Goldstone Commission.

MS F MOLETE: My first statement is the one that I made to the two women and two men who came to us.  If I remember them they were Caroline, Barbara and Segwadi, but I forget the fourth one.

CHAIRPERSON: Did all these four people come at the same time?

MS F MOLETE: Segwadi with this other person came first to me at work, so that's where I wrote the statement and the second time when they came, they came with these two other women and then after some time we were taken to Vereeniging.

MR STRYDOM: The Caroline that you've mentioned, is that Caroline Nichols?

MS F MOLETE: Well I did not know her surname, I only knew her by this name, Caroline.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, and the people that came, did they tell you where they're from or who they represent?

MS F MOLETE: I knew Mr Segwadi.  I know where he comes from, he stays at Serela.  That is where he was born.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but did he tell you who he represents or what his capacity was?

MS F MOLETE: No.

MR STRYDOM: Did you give evidence at the Goldstone Commission under a nickname?

MS F MOLETE: I was using this name, that is my birth name, Florence, I never used a nickname.

MR STRYDOM: And the surname you used?

MS F MOLETE: I used the surname, Molete.

MR STRYDOM: Weren't you referred to as Florina Dlamini?  Is that not the same person?