Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-13

CHAIRPERSON: Mateyisi Ndondo.

MATEYISI NDONDO: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Mr Chairman, they have been properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you Mr Ndondo.  Please put on your headphones.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Can you hear me Mr Ndondo?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mrs Ndondo, during this morning we have been hearing about the state of emergency, the consumer boycott that was going on in Stutterheim and now we are coming to your case in which a 7 year old child, your son, was shot while he was playing with friends.
 I would like to ask you a little bit about him first of all.  Was he at school?

MATEYISI NDONDO: He was from school. I was at work.  I was not at home.  We were both at work.  When I came back at half past five, I heard the news that my child had been shot by Mkhululi.
 I came back and I thought I should go to the hospital to look for him and indeed it was so.  When I got there, Magoda was standing before him.  I asked him why he was doing so, he said he was guarding him.  I asked if he was arrested and a prisoner, and he said yes.
 I asked what he was doing, and he said he does not know.  It was on a Wednesday when he was shot by the police.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Ndondo, can I interrupt you here to ask you two things.  First of all are you saying that there was a guard posted at the door of the ward where this child was?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: Was he a very big child, was he very big or was he small?  He was 7 years old.

MATEYISI NDONDO: He was 7 years old, he was 7.

JUNE CRICHTON: I am asking you very specifically was he small or was he very tall?

MATEYISI NDONDO: He as tall.  He was not big, but tall and biggish.  He was tall.  He was not big, but tall and biggish.

JUNE CRICHTON: Will you continue please.

MATEYISI NDONDO: He was relatively tall, not too tall.  We went to the hospital on the Wednesday evening when I heard that he had been shot.
 He was shot at the back.  I went home and I was told to come back on the Thursday.  I got up in the morning, but I did not go to work, I went to the hospital.
 We were told to take him to Frere hospital.  We went together, when we got to the Frere hospital in an ambulance, he was taken and examined by quite a few Doctors, they said that he would not live because the bullet was in his intestines.
 They wanted to operate so that they could see properly, they did so.  On that evening, the same Thursday, that is when they operated.  He did not survive the operation.
 They could not tell me straight that my child had passed away, I knew deep in my heart that there was no such.  I asked them to tell me the truth, they told me the truth eventually that my child had passed on.
 I took him from the office after he had died, I was shown by the police, I don't know who the police were but it was in East London, the mortuary, this was the mortuary at the hospital.
 When I went back to the hospital I was told that I must request for my child to be taken to Stutterheim.  I was given a ticket to board to Stutterheim.  It was on a Friday.
 I told them at the police station that they must go fetch my child from East London, the one policeman went and fetched the corpse.
 We went together with my older brother.  He had been operated on, we could see.  On the 20th the Wednesday, we buried my child.  There was a consumer boycott at the time.  We buried my child on the Wednesday.
 I asked Mkhululi why it is, he told me that he had killed my son.  I asked why he killed my son, why didn't he come to me, he said that he thought that the boy was grown up.
 I asked if you could just kill any grown up person like that any way, he kept quiet.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Ndondo, you say that there were three other people present at that shooting, Xolili, Siyabulela and Zukile, were they children too?  I am not getting a translation.

MATEYISI NDONDO: I heard when I came back that he had been playing with three other children.  He got there and when they were running away, Mkhululi shot him.
 There were a lot of people around as there had been a consumer boycott, he shot him next to the field.

JUNE CRICHTON: So he was with a group of children and he was shot when he was running with those children?  I want to move now to ask you whether there was a court case of any sort, an inquest?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No, we did not go to court.

JUNE CRICHTON: So you simply had this discussion with Mkhululi yourself?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Yes, he just told me at the time, we were talking.  I did not see him after that, I think he was changed.  The last time I saw him was in Stutterheim, in town.
 He did not come to me personally, he did not come to ask for forgiveness, I did not see him after the incident.

JUNE CRICHTON: Are you saying that you have not seen him again since then?

MATEYISI NDONDO: I did not see him again.

JUNE CRICHTON: One question that I did not ask you which I think is important for me to know is at what time in the day was this that the children were playing, was it at night or was it day time?

MATEYISI NDONDO: It was day time, as I heard, they were playing in the rugby field.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Ndondo, there is just another question that I need to ask you now and that is what your expectations of the Commission are?  You've come to us, you've told your story, what is it that you are especially requiring us to consider?

MATEYISI NDONDO: As I said and stated, what I need is for my house to be built.  Secondly I request that in my area I need a monument in our township for my child.
 Those are my requests.  Just a monument in the township.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Ndondo, we understand you pain.  One thing that we have not spoken about is the effect that this had on Mbulelo's mother and grandmother.  You've been through a great deal of pain, we thank you.

MATEYISI NDONDO: His mother I buried in 1989.  His sister stopped going to school, she is up to no good.  Even I am not well.
 He killed three people, he also killed me.  I am the fourth person that he killed, when I think about it.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Ndondo, thank you for opening your heart to us, but not just to the people that are here, but to the nation as to the pain that was caused by situations like this.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Tiny Maya?

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Ndondo, I only have two questions for you sir.  You said you spoke to Mkhululi, you said that he came to you or did you go to look for him?

MATEYISI NDONDO: When the child died, he asked if I am the father of the child and the others said that I am and then he said he had killed my child.
 They said that my child looked grown up.

MS MAYA: When he says that he had killed the child, when he confessed, was he asking for forgiveness?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

MS MAYA: He did not try to ask for forgiveness?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

MS MAYA: How do you feel about Mkhululi at the moment?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Mkhululi is no longer in Stutterheim, he was transferred elsewhere.

MS MAYA: In your heart, how do you feel about him?

MATEYISI NDONDO: It has caused me  a lot of pain that he had committed such an atrocity.

MS MAYA: If you had to see him again, what would you say to him?

MATEYISI NDONDO: If I would see him, I would have nothing against him.  It is God who is sovereign.  It is just my heart that keeps aching.

MS MAYA: Thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi?

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Ndondo, the Mkhululi that we are talking about today, did you know him prior to the incident?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

ADV SANDI: Was it the first time that you saw him?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Yes.  I just saw him as one of the police members.

ADV SANDI: You said that this matter did not go up to the court of law?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

ADV SANDI: Did you wish to take this matter to court?

MATEYISI NDONDO: If I had been called, that was my wish.