Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

WITNESS:  From Angola I went to Germany, and I via-ed Congo.  Oh, I went to Nigeria as well.  I am so well travelled.  I went  to Italy as well - East Germany, in Berlin, right inside there.

MR DLAMINI: Now, tell us about your training as an MK.  Where did you receive your training?

WITNESS:   I received my

MR DLAMINI: training in Angola.  That was the basic training.  Maybe I should mention that.  That was in 1983, and we had Eastern Front that erupted.  Chris Hani took me to Germany, or arranged for me to go to Germany.

MR DLAMINI: When you were coming back to South Africa what was your intention, or rather your aim?

WITNESS:   My aim was to fight the Government of the day.  I was on a mission of onslaught.  You know, when I got here in Natal people were just in slumber, they didn't know things.

MR DLAMINI: Now, you came back to South Africa and you were sent by the MK leaders to terrorise - to mobilise and train the units.  Did you get any opportunity to do that, or you were arrested even before you tried?

WITNESS:   Oh, there was a spy, a traitor, who came by and all my mission fell apart.

MR DLAMINI: Let me be cleared here.  You say even before your mission could be accomplished you got arrested because there was this traitor who spied on you?

WITNESS:   I already had followers, disciples even then.

MR DLAMINI: At Skippers Neck where you were arrested what were you doing?

WITNESS:   I was there with my uncle, as my uncle was principal at a certain school, and my uncle died.  And I was still at school then.  My aunt was a teacher there.  Now she is in Mondlo.  This boy came as I was trying to open my bottle, my beer.  You know, in those days we were still using tin openers.  And they said, "No, just wind it.  You won't have to use tin opener, you can just wind  this lid."  When the boy came there I suspected he's the one who was a traitor because he - his name was Jabulani Ndlovu.  He is at Natal University in Pietermaritzburg.

MR DLAMINI: Jabulani who?

WITNESS:   Jabulani Ndlovu.

MR DLAMINI: Is he the one that you suspect was a traitor?

WITNESS:  No, that's what I suspected at the time, because we were both arrested and he had to lose his job as well.  He was a teacher.

MR DLAMINI: Let's leave Jabulani alone as you say it was a mistake, he wasn't the suspect.  Tell us now about your arrest.  How were you arrested?  Explain.

WITNESS:   He was a teacher at Nondweni, at Nquthu.  He was teaching at Nondweni.  He lost his job because of me, and that was attributed to me.  I was a police then, and it was alleged that I was - oh, I was buying him clothes and stuff, supporting him.

MR DLAMINI: Now, let's be direct about your arrest, because you claim you were arrested and you were harassed in various ways.  Now, explain to the Commission.

WITNESS:   Now, he followed me to Skippers, to this place.  They were searching for me in the location, left, right and centre.  There was a brother, my brother, who came to Lakeside, the coloured suburb.

MR DLAMINI: Who were the police that arrested you?

WITNESS:   It was Ngobese.  He is on pension now.  He had a shop at Mondlo.  Those that tortured me I will tell you.

MR DLAMINI: It was Mr Ngobese and who else?

WITNESS:   They will say, "Where is Jacob's farm?" and they were asking where my uncle was teaching, as to where is the farm, and I will say, "No, I am just coming from the party."  They arrested me, and I was arrested by the Flying Squad. You were arrested by the Flying Squad from which police station?   ---   Right here, right from next to Checkers here in Vryheid Police Station by Beares.

MR DLAMINI: They took you to ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   It was a

MR DLAMINI: convoy.  I tell you there were more than 20 vehicles.  They took me to Vryheid, to the house, where I was undressed and naked, tortured there.

MR DLAMINI: Who was assaulting you?

WITNESS:   They had covered my eyes, I could not see.  I knew of a guy called Getshwayo and Mfilisa, Mfilisa Mazibuko.  I don't know if he'll kill me maybe by mentioning of his name.

MR DLAMINI: Amongst the things, inter alia, that they did to you, what else was done to you?

WITNESS:   They arrested my mum.

MR DLAMINI: How long was your mum arrested.

WITNESS:   They took me to Driefontein, and when I was taken to prison I saw my mum, and my mum was right there, and I could see - they tried to close the door even before I could see her, but it was late.  There was my cousin as well who was arrested, and Jabu, who was my brother and a teacher, and Maseru, who had given me the mine weapons, bombs, because I was intending to cause havoc here.

MR DLAMINI: After they had arrested you they took you to Driefontein Police Station.

WITNESS:   No, I just spent days here in this house.  They will take turns torturing me.  I could not sleep.  They will sleep and take a break, but I was forever and continuously tortured.  It was a black and a white.  Mdletshe and the other he has just mentioned were even better.  They gave me a better treatment.  Mdletshe and the colleague would even grant me some time to rest, because I could just fall any minute.  I was  tired, I wasn't getting some sleep at all.  And naked by the way.

MR DLAMINI: You've made mention of Mdletshe, that he was kind to you.

WITNESS:   Mdletshe - and Warren Gunn is a white man,

MR DLAMINI: Warren Gunn.  Mdletshe is a black man.  They were treating me kindly.  He didn't interrogate me.

MR DLAMINI: I may have to say that we did contact Mr Mdletshe.

WITNESS:    He did not torture me in any way.

MR DLAMINI: And Mazibuko as well.

WITNESS:   Mazibuko tortured me, and Mazibuko claims that he did not torture, but Mazibuko is telling a lie.  He tortured me and called my mum a witch.

MR DLAMINI: What other things did he commit to you, Mazibuko?

WITNESS:   He will slap me, and I now have a dislocation on my left cheek.  I think the gums.  I am a goalkeeper, by the way, and ... (intervention)

MR DLAMINI: Mr Mwelase, I am getting lost now.  You are talking about soccer now.  I thought we were talking about ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Oh, I was trying to explain to you my dislocation.  He will hold me this way, and slap me so hard on my left-hand cheek.  Right now I can't speak properly because I have this dislocation.  He assaulted me more than everybody.

MR DLAMINI: We have noted that.

WITNESS:   And one white man could not give me water when I asked for water.  He took a stone and - he gave me water with so much salt.  How could one drink such water?

MR DLAMINI: After that what happened?

WITNESS:   I was in Driefontein after that.

MR DLAMINI: What were you doing in Driefontein?

WITNESS:   I was in the cell. Were you charged?  What charges against you?   ---(Inaudible)

MR DLAMINI: Who were those people who came?

WITNESS:   Nkala from Kandla, and Jeff, the one they are mentioning with

MR DLAMINI: de Kock, together with de Kock.

MR DLAMINI: What did they say to you?

WITNESS:   They promised me nice things.

MR DLAMINI: The things that they promised to you that were so nice, why were they promising those?

WITNESS:   They promised me that if I will be an askari then I will have a house, and also sell my organisation.  I said yes to them because my mum and my family were not treated well, were not in a good state.  You will think that - when we talk infiltration you will think that I am your brother, and yet I am the direct opposite.

MR DLAMINI: Where were you working, or where were you sent to?

WITNESS:   I was sent to Vlakplaas.  That was my base.  De Kock was a major then, before he was a colonel.  I was arrested in 1988, January 8.  I got back to South Africa round the 11th or 10th December 1987.

MR DLAMINI: When were you an askari?

WITNESS:   It was '88 around June.  I don't remember quite well, but I was there for three months.  I was arrested on February 8.  Around June 1988 I was an askari.