Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-05

MR DEHAL: Thank you.
MR McBRIDE
"... who was a nurse and would be able to administer medical assistance to him as he had been severely injured.  Gordon was kept in a number of placed during the next week for his own safety and when it became known that the police were aware of his correct name and by inference, anyone who was at college would have linked him with me, because we are very close, we decided to take him out of the country into exile.  We did this.  The exact date I cannot remember, but this was on or around the 10th of May 1986."

MR DEHAL: Sorry sir, can I just confer with my lawyer just for one second?  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I just want to mention that during the Section 29 investigative hearing, I handed in my passport to the Panel and they made photostats of it, so the exact date can be determined then.
"We effected the escape and smuggled him through the border together with his girlfriend, by means of a caravan in which special storage places were prepared for them.   We then took him out of the country and handed him over to the ANC who then sent him off to Moscow for treatment."

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you take him to, Mr Webster, Swaziland, Botswana?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Botswana sir.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, you say you went through the border, which border did you use?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That was Ramatlabana border post.

ADV SIGODI: Ramatlabana?
MR McBRIDE
	"The deceased person in this operation was Mlungize Buthelezi and the injured persons were Cons Edward Ngobo, Cons Johannes Hendrik Visagie, Simpiwe Shange and Nkosinathi Nkabini."

MR DEHAL: And indeed Mr McBride, you were convicted of this incident, and sentenced to imprisonment for a number of years?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: Did you receive the death sentence for the death of Mr Mlungize Buthelezi?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I was acquitted of that, I was acquitted of the charge of murder for Mr Buthelezi.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.   Let's deal with the Pine Parkade bomb, it has been loosely termed a bomb, I see in Exhibit G you talk about it as a hoax-bomb?  It was not really a bomb in the true sense of the term?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: This is an incident that you were charged with in the trial that we so often talk of and you were convicted of this incident, correct?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: But of a lesser competent verdict?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, if my memory serves me correct it was ...

MR DEHAL: You deal with that I see, subsequently, we will get to that.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Thank you.

MR DEHAL: It is in bundle A1 on page 9, item 16, do you identify that?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, I have that.

MR DEHAL: Do you see under item 16, there is the words "defused by the police" in the first line?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct yes.

MR DEHAL: This bomb, would it have exploded had the police not defused it, firstly?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I would use "defuse" as I did in Exhibit G, the bomb could have stayed there for the next 100 years, it would not have exploded.

MR DEHAL: Was it intended to be such?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, it was intended to be such.  Just for the record, none of the explosive devices I put together, ever, and if they were meant to explode, did not explode.  Every one of them exploded, and none of the explosive devices I put together, could ever be dismantled.  They had to go and invent something later on, to try and dismantle them.

MR DEHAL: What was the intention in placing this device at the Pine Parkade?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It was to bring attention to the ANC and I go through it in the statement here.

MR DEHAL: Yes, perhaps you should, thank you.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: "During May 1986 ..."

MR DEHAL: Perhaps you should deal with the first aspect as well.
MR McBRIDE
	"This was not a bomb as is evident from the transcript.  This was defused by the police, there was no detonator placed in this explosive device, on purpose.   
	During May 1986, the Eminent Persons Group of the Commonwealth visited South Africa in the hope of brokering a negotiations deal between the liberation movement and the South African government, then headed by P.W. Botha.  If my memory serves me correct, the Head of the delegation was the present President of Nigeria, Mr ...(indistinct).   In an attempt to scupper the possibility of a deal, P.W. Botha sent South African Security Forces to attack a number of targets in the neighbouring States simultaneously.  P.W. Botha did this, it was widely believed at the time, to set about a negotiations process which excluded the ANC.  This I understand was the message he had given to the Eminent Persons Group.  	
	At this stage I decided as Commander of my unit, that it was important that the ANC's presence be felt at that specific time so that the ANC can be regarded as an integral part of any lasting solution to the then conflict.   A device was then put together, consisting of explosive charges which on their own are inert, for example it can be thrown from a building or it can be put in a fire, but will remain harmless.  These devices were camouflaged with paper, electric wire, aerosol spray to make them appear to be more sinister than they actually were.  
	Together with Jeanette Apelgren, who was subsequently a State witness against me in the trial, who is the sister of Greta, I proceeded to the Pine Parkade as a central location in Durban and placed the "bomb" under (it should be under, not on), under one of the cars.  This was intentionally done at the Pine Parkade, as this was known as one of the most secure parking garages in the city at the time and in full knowledge that the parcel would be found very quickly.  The parcel was found and the police attempted to "disarm" or "defuse" the "bomb".  The remainder of the so-called bomb which was thought to contain a detonator, was taken away in a bomb disposal vehicle and by ten o'clock the following morning, had not exploded clearly indicating that there was no detonator in there."   
	I must just mention here that the Security Police at the time went together with the media, went on a long song and dance about how terrible the ANC is, placing such a device there, and neglected to mention that the device did not explode and would not have exploded. 
"For this incident I was convicted of the lesser offence of causing a public disturbance under Section 52 of the Terrorism Act.  I was sentenced to, if my memory serves me correct, to two years.  The police themselves added additional explosives to what was left of the parcel after it had been dismantled and detonated themselves.  That was after more than 12 hours."

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Mr McBride - sorry, bear with me.  Mr Chairperson, I see it is one o'clock, can we perhaps take the long adjournment at this stage?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is one o'clock, we will now take the lunch time adjournment.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: (affirmed)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Mr Dehal?

MR DEHAL: (cont)
	Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr McBride, you had just finished before the lunch recess, with the operation dealing with the Pine Parkade hoax-bomb.    May I just take you back to the operation that was commonly called the Chamberlain Road incident.  This you deal with in paragraph 4 of Exhibit G.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, I have that.

MR DEHAL: I show you (iii), you will recall that you dealt with the list of persons who were injured and a Mr Zimmerman who is now being represented by Mr Mall who is present here and you talked about how you did not hear of Mr Baker during the trial and that he features for the first time only now?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

MR DEHAL: Do you want to add anything further to that?