Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1998-09-07

MR KOOPEDI: In all fairness to the witness, if you will allow me to come in Mr Chairman, there are no new incidents that are being mentioned here, because all these incidents if my learned friend goes through the application forms here, he will find a corresponding note to that effect.
	On the other hand in as far as the request or the instruction that all applicants sign this statement because the statement cannot be simply handed in, I wish to remind my learned friend that this statement was meant to be read and not to be handed in initially and it was handed in because we were asked to hand it in, and remind my learned friend also that the present applicant has under oath associated himself with this statement and I do not see the need therefore to sign the statement.
	But I wish to stress the fact that there are no new matters that are being brought.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, I will not take this point any further, except to say that there is definitely information that was added, numerous incidents like page 7, the Honourable Committee Member Khampepe showed, pointed out the sub-Units, there is no information contained in this application at all.

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Chairman, without creating a dialogue if you will allow me, my learned friend ...

CHAIRPERSON: You just did.

ADV STEENKAMP: I will just leave it there Mr Chairman, it is up to the Committee to decide.  Maybe it is a question for argument.

ADV MOTATA: No but before you do, we had regard to page 14 of the bundle.

ADV STEENKAMP: Sir, it is the view of the victims that this was an act, a callous and cowardice act mainly targeting white people who were frequenting this Wimpy Bar, do you have any comment on this?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I would say that the action on Wimpy was not targeted on white people.  It was targeted at the Security personnel that served on the Headquarters of the Special Branch, whether black or white and it has never been the policy or intention of the ANC to hit or to attack ordinary civilians.

ADV STEENKAMP: My last comment, maybe you can comment on this sir, I can put it as a matter of fact to you that not a single Security Police or political person was injured at all in this Wimpy attack, it was only civilians.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I would also indicate that this matter has been dealt with by my Commander.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You are being asked notwithstanding the fact that it has been dealt with by your Commander.  You are being asked a question and you must respond to it Mr Kebotlhale.

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes, I would say that the possibility of concealing blows suffered by the Special Branch personnel cannot be precluded in that regard, as part of you know, concealing their defeats.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination Mr Koopedi?

MR KOOPEDI: Nothing in re-examination of this witness, thank you Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Kebotlhale, I just have one question to pose to you.  When Mr Ndlovu gave you a report after he had conducted some reconnaissance on Wimpy Bar, did he give you any information with regard to whether there was any black patronage of this particular Wimpy?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I do not recall that for sure.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did you yourself not know whether that particular Wimpy was patronaged by blacks?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: That I did not know.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you resident within the Benoni area at that time?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: I was staying at Katlehong at that time, not in Benoni.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you familiar with the mall wherein this Wimpy Bar was situated?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Personally, not.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Had you never gone past the vicinity around the Wimpy restaurant?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: No.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

ADV MOTATA: Just one Chairperson.  You said you relied also on information from former detainees, did I hear you correctly?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes.

ADV MOTATA: And when you say information from former detainees, were they accompanying the Security Branch to the Wimpy?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: That I could not confirm, but that is the information that we got from former detainees.

ADV MOTATA: That for instance they got food from Wimpy which was bought by the Police?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: Yes.

ADV MOTATA: But never indicated that they actually went with the Police there?

TEBOGO CHRISTOPHER KEBOTLHALE: No.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you Chairperson, I've got no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED