Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Not yesterday when Mr de Wet gave evidence?

J H VLOK: No Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Did you not want to discuss it with your legal representative?

J H VLOK: No Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: At any stage were you arrested after these explosions?

J H VLOK: No, Chairperson.  At a very later stage I was taken into custody.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: When was that and how long were you under arrest?

J H VLOK: Please repeat?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: When were you arrested and how long were you in custody?

J H VLOK: I was arrested - I can't remember exactly but I think on the 3rd August 1996, it was on a Saturday morning.  I was detained in Germiston up until the Monday morning and then I was taken to the district court.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Two or three days?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So at all times you had access to legal representatives and the legal representatives that's now supporting you?

J H VLOK: Yes, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: In other words you were not behind bars, you didn't have problems making contact with people outside of prison?

J H VLOK: I was behind bar, Chairperson, for three days.

CHAIRPERSON: The Monday you got bail or what happened?

J H VLOK: Yes, I received bail.

CHAIRPERSON: And from that Monday up until the time you received bail, it's put to you that you were free, a free person and at any time you could have spoken to a legal representative?  Now answer that please?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That was 1996 you said?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: When you were free.

J H VLOK: End of 1996.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Up until now?

J H VLOK: Yes, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you knew about the chaos concerned with the Germiston bomb?

J H VLOK: Afterwards Chairperson?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, the chaos which was caused by the Germiston bomb, the loss of life, the damage to the buildings which were destroyed, the vehicles?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson, I saw it on television.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you knew people were injured at that explosion?

J H VLOK: Yes Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Now I'm asking you the same question the Chairperson asked Mr de Wet yesterday.  At this time did you try to make contact with any of the people who were injured or whose property was damaged or whose family members died?

J H VLOK: No Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Why not?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, I acted in the interest of the AWB and I reconciled myself with the objectives in order to stop the elections and to enforce a Volkstaat for my people.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But in 1996 the election was long time finished.  Why couldn't you approach these people - the elections were already finished for two years, it happened two years ago.

J H VLOK: I could have, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The ideals of the AWB - are they still close to your heart today?

J H VLOK: Sorry?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The ideals of the AWB - do you still consider them very important, are they still close to you?

J H VLOK: The ideals of the AWB - Chairperson, my mission is to continue with my life and I do not associate myself with any political party any more.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So when did you remove yourself from the ideals of the AWB?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, I now came to the realisation that our leaders are not prepared to support us and at that time we were just used as pawns in order to obtain their objectives.  We were misused by them.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: When did you come to this decision?

J H VLOK: I can't tell you exactly when but at this stage that's my feelings Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Was it a month ago, a week ago, a year ago or a day ago or maybe an hour ago?

J H VLOK: No, Chairperson, my trust was still in Terreblanche and his Generals and staff and other leaders who were willing to give instructions at that time and I was prepared to fight and at this stage it's not the case - they are not willing to stand with us.  They are not prepared to seek reconciliation and now I am now under the impression that these people would not support and assist us, Chairperson.  I cannot reconcile myself with that any more.

CHAIRPERSON: When did this happen that you realised that you no longer want to be part of the AWB?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, just after the elections, when I was on the run.

CHAIRPERSON: That's four years ago round about?

J H VLOK: Yes, plus minus, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And in the four years after you've left the AWB and their ideologies and you didn't reconcile yourself with anything that the AWB stood for.  Could you not have made contact with any of these people who were either injured or who lost family members or damage to property, couldn't you make contact with any one of them and say to them "I'm no longer with the AWB, I'm sorry."?

J H VLOK: No Chairperson, I did not.  Afterwards, after the elections took place, I absolutely felt and I believed that the AWB would take responsibility and that they would also come to find reconciliation.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And in four years neither the AWB nor Mr Terreblanche came and said "we'd take responsibility."?

J H VLOK: No, Chairperson, not that I know of.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Cliffie Barnard - do you know what his position is?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, he is in prison.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Well with regards to the truth with regards to an application for amnesty, do you know what his position is?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, as was submitted to the Committee, Nicolas Barnard withdrew his Application for Amnesty.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: We'll get there later.  Koper Myburgh - he was also on the run after these bombs exploded - is that correct?

J H VLOK: I do not know.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Did Koper Myburgh continue to plant further bombs?

J H VLOK: Where was this, Chairperson?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Amongst others, in the Cape?

J H VLOK: I do not know Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: You have no knowledge of that?

J H VLOK: Chairperson, all I know of is what we heard now, that he was found guilty of those bomb explosions, Chairperson.  At that stage I did not know.  I do know now.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And did your advocate give you access to Bundle A which was submitted by Advocate Landman?

J H VLOK: I do not know which bundle you are referring to.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The advocate did not give you access to Bundle A?
	Mr Chairperson, I realise that it's almost eleven o'clock, there's a few points that I need clarity on - I don't know if it's maybe a good time to adjourn?
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

J H VLOK: (s.u.o.)

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: (cont)
	In April 1994, did you believe in the AWB ideology of a pure race - is that correct?

J H VLOK: Yes, Mr Chairperson, that every nation has got it's right to be governed by their own people.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Is that what race purity means or purity of race means?

J H VLOK: That is how I see it Mr Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And now, in 1998?  Do you still believe in the purity of race?

J H VLOK: No, Mr Chairperson, at the moment I am here in front of the Truth Commission to explain my participation in the period before the election in the revolution and to continue with my life and to get amnesty for it.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And now in 1998 - what is the borders of the Fatherland at this stage?

J H VLOK: Would you please put the question again?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Now in 1998, what is the borders of this Fatherland currently?

J H VLOK: Of what Fatherland?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is what I would like to know from you.  Your Fatherland today. Not the Volkstaat - the Fatherland?

J H VLOK: Could you please repeat again?