Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

MR PRIOR: May I proceed Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, the matter which proceeds this morning, the 28th April 1998 is the Amnesty Application of Thabiso James Makoala, No. 6026/97 and Phila Martin Dolo, No. 3485/96.
	The event is the Zastron Mayaphuti Bridge attack on the vehicle of a Mr Griesel and that occurred during November 1992.  May I inform the Committee that Mr Griesel was injured in that attack, not fatally, he has subsequently died, he committed suicide, Mr Chairman, if that evidence will be forthcoming - that's why on the schedule before you in brackets "deceased" appears there.
	The two other victims who were with Mr Griesel at the time were Mr Tladi and Mr Ndeleni have been informed.  Mr Ndeleni is present and I understand Mr Tladi had worked night shift and was unable to attend this morning and in no doubt if necessary his presence will be secured.  The victim Mr Ndeleni will rely on the services of the evidence leader, that is myself, P.C. Prior.  
	The implicated person Mr Letlapa Mphahlele I understand is present and is informed of the proceedings and the two applicants are represented by their respective attorneys.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mbandazayo's my name, I'm representing Phila Martin Dolo, Mr Chairman.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chairman, Mthembu, I represent Mr Makoala.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, before we proceed, may the bundle that was prepared be marked "A" and there was a supplementary - there was copies of photographs, that they may be marked "B".  Mr Chairman to some extent this is a overrun of the photographs already appearing but to avoid confusion, maybe mark that "B" and I understand that Mr Dolo and Mr Makoala have filed supplementary affidavits to their applications this morning.  I think Mr Dolo is going to be kicking off so could that affidavit be marked "C", the affidavit of Mr Dolo and the affidavit of Mr Makoalo, "D".  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Now gentlemen do you agree with that numbering?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Mr Chairman I agree.

MR MTHEMBU: Correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, carry on.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: (sworn states)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Dolo, do you confirm the affidavit which is before the Committee that it was made by you and you abide by it's contents?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, as usual Mr Chairman, I won't go to - I'll go to paragraph - I'll start with paragraph 6 of his affidavit, Mr Chairman.  I'll read the paragraph - "The target was identified by myself, the armament used in the operation was organised by myself in my capacity as a Regional Commander, I was charged with the task of getting the ball rolling operationally and intelligence wise and I was reporting directly to the Director of Operations regarding my activities and operations before and after they have taken place.  I was therefore always having cadres at my disposal as I was involved in training new recruits."
	Now, Mr Dolo, for the benefit of the Committee, tell the Committee how did you identify the target?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: As stated in my application, that I was the commander of the unit.  I was having subordinates, recruits and some other cadres were under my control.  They were involved in information gathering about targets that have to be attacked and that information would be submitted to me and I would make an overall rule of which target do I choose that have to be attacked and which one does not have to be attacked, so I was the one therefore who was identifying the targets and after that I would report to my superiors prior to the attack and after the attack.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you also for the benefit of the Committee, tell the Committee how did you organise the armament, that is the weapons used in the operation?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: As the Regional Commander, when I arrived in that region or area, the way armaments that were there, the Commander was informed of them, they were under my control so I was the one therefore would be in charge of those arms I will just be ...[inaudible] in that way.

CHAIRPERSON: You've been asked how you identified the target and you've explained that you got information from people under you.  Would you please tell us what target you identified?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Like the one we are dealing with it now here?

CHAIRPERSON: The one you're asking amnesty in respect of.  I would like to know what target it was?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The one we once dealt about it last week and we're talking about and this one we're dealing with it now.  The Zastron Sterkspruit Bridge.

MR LAX: Sorry are you saying if I understand you correctly that the target was the bridge or was that the target area?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The target was on the side of South Africa, when you passed the bridge, that was the area where the target would be targeted.

MR LAX: So that was the locality, if you like, if you chose to carry out an attack, is that what you're saying when you talk about target, you really - because target could be used in a whole range of different ways.  You identified an area where you would launch an attack.  I'm just trying to get this clear?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: My unit or those were under me will embark on reconnaissance and surveillance work - that information would be submitted to me and I would be the one therefore to choose which target is to be attacked.  So in this case, we are dealing with the cars which were approaching Sterkspruit from the Zastron side.

MR LAX: The question really goes to what you are saying now - was it random which cars you would attack or was purely fortuitous that those cars would arrive at that place at that time or would you have specific information that specific vehicles would be arriving at a specific place?  We're trying to understand because a target is usually the end product at which you point a firearm - either a vehicle, a person or a something.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was having information about those targets.

MR LAX: Well expand on that for us please because you're being very quiet about that, tell us more, tell us what information you had, why you chose those targets, what was your objective in relation to those targets.  That's what we want to know and unfortunately we haven't had much elaboration on that so far.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The targets were from the area of Zastron approaching to Sterkspruit.  Some were having businesses around there at Sterkspruit.  Some were passing through Sterkspruit to the side of Lady Grey.  The one we are talking about now was also from that direction of Zastron to Sterkspruit and the hours they were using to approach that area - it was - they normally used or approached at that area early in the mornings during working hours and the purpose of attacking those were normally or where cars and it's occupants were at that stage - we'll call them settlers or white colonists.
	The objectives of attacking them were part and parcel liberation of our people and the question of driving them away from the area of Sterkspruit so that we can take it over - Sterkspruit - and as part of liberation of ourselves.

CHAIRPERSON: It's gradually becoming a little clearer to me.  Do I understand you to say that persons using that road at that time of the morning were usually people who worked in Sterkspruit and you wanted to drive them out, drive them off the land there, drive them out of Sterkspruit?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: That was part of the object.

CHAIRPERSON: So understandably your people could take over, is that part of the object?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.