Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: What Simphiwe said is the same thing as what I would say.

MR MOPEDI: And coming back to all these incidents, under whose command were you?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Let us start with the Leviza incident.  After the Committee of Seven, before Mosa was elected as the sectional commander, there were street commanders before where we would meet and discuss what we would do today and what we would do the next day.
	During the Leviza incident I think it was half of us who were there and other soldiers from other sections were there.  This is what we discussed with the commanders of the other street.  All in all Mosa was not my commander at that time because at that time he was not the commander of the section yet.

MR MOPEDI: And then who was before Mosa, became the commander of the section, who was the commander of the section?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Before Mosa it was Mfinos.

MR MOPEDI: Let's got back to the incident of Dube.  You said you shot people there, do you know how many people you have shot?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I can't say how many were there because if you are shooting you are trying also to protect yourself and when you finish that job you run away from that place.

MR MOPEDI: But is it possible that people might have been shot, injured or even killed?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Both are possible, Sir.

MR MOPEDI: Could you say with certainty that you shot people, how many were those people and who were those people?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I wouldn't be certain about that, Sir.

MR MOPEDI: So but what you know is that it is possible that you might have shot someone, injured or even killed someone?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Yes.

MR MOPEDI: And then let's go back to the Mshayazafe incident.  Did you kill anyone there?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I think if I'm not mistaken and according to what I said, what happened in Dube is connected with what happened there because when you are shooting you are shooting towards people.  So it happens that when you are shooting you would shoot at a person and that person would be shot and you wouldn't know who that person is.  Or that person would lie down because he could hear the sounds of the bullets even though he is not shot.

MR MOPEDI: Were you given a firearm or any weapon?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Yes, I was given a firearm.

MR MOPEDI: What type of firearm was it?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: The AK47.

MR MOPEDI: So if you were given an AK47, what happened eventually to it?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Can you please repeat your question, Sir.

MR MOPEDI: My question is, since that you were given a firearm, an AK47 to use, what happened to that firearm, that AK47 that you were provided with?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I didn't return mine but what happened is the members of the ISU came to fetch it at home, the took the firearm.  I was not there.

MR MOPEDI: So is there anything that you would like to add to your testimony?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: For now there is nothing else, except what I've already said.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I've no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Advocate Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: No, thank you, Mr Chairman, I've got no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhambi, were you the commander of Mkwaie Street?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that during the period before Mosa Msimango became the commander, that you referred to when there was three commanders?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Please repeat your question, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: At the time when you were - I'm trying to ascertain at what stage, at what time were you the commander of Mkwaie Street, was that before Mosa Msimango became the commander?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Let me answer this way.  Mosa took over after we were straight commanders.

CHAIRPERSON: Give us an idea, during what period were you the street commander of Mkwaie Street.

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Early in the year after we collected money after we were elected as the Committee of Seven.

ADV GCABASHE: Are you saying early 1993?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now was that at the time when Mfinos was the commander of the Lusaka-A SDU?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the situation that within the SDU there was Mfinos the commander and there were commanders of different streets?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I don't understand the question, Sir, can you please repeat it.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps I must ask you just to explain to us how was the Lusaka-A SDU organised at the time when you were the street commander of Mkwaie Street.  How did the organisation work?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: It is like this, Sir.  At the beginning we were working like this, before Mosa took over we would take a report and hand it over to Mfinos and he would hand it over, he would forwarded it.  But what would happen while Mosa was in command, what he was doing was not different from what we were doing but the difference was that the weapons or the firearms that we used, they were used more than before.  What I mean is that when you got to certain streets you would find that there was no control about the firearms and then it was decided that within the Committee of Seven a person would be elected to look at whatever was happening concerning the SDUs.

CHAIRPERSON: Now just tell us, were there other street commanders as well within the SDU in Lusaka-A?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And what were your duties as street commanders, what did you have to do?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Our duty was this.  In the street that we were operating in we were to look at the situation around the street, that there are no unknown persons in that particular street.  We were monitoring the situations in the street.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you as street commander, were you in charge of a number of men?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct.  To add more, as I've already said that the people were misusing the bullets of the firearms, certain people were selected and we would look at the people if they members of the SDUs or they were using the firearms for their own needs.  	We didn't know exactly what was happening with the firearms or the organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were basically in charge of your street and you had to ensure that things went right in your street that you were responsible for?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

ADV GCABASHE: The Dube incident, I understood you to say that Mosa was not the commander of the section at that time?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is not correct.  I said in the Dleveza
incident he was not a commander then.  
	Can I drink water?

ADV GCABASHE: You have also referred to the Mshayazafe incident, that is the 1994 incident, just to date it, early '94, April '94, is that the one?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: That is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Thank you.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Chairman.
	Mr Mhambi, were you aware that at some stage these firearms were supposed to be handed in somewhere now that the job was done?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I knew about this when the central commander and the people in charge of this section came from their meetings and they told us about this issue.

ADV SANDI: Was it your intention to hand this firearm to the - was it your intention to hand it in?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: Those were not my intentions.

ADV SANDI: Did you not entertain such an intention?

MONWABISI EBENEZER MHAMBI: I was not sure whether the violence was over.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mopedi, re-examination?

MR MOPEDI: I have no re-examination, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MOPEDI