Amnesty Hearings — Messina — 2000-07-05

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Correct.  We went back to Pietersburg on Wednesday, it was myself and Moses.  Upon arrival at the taxi rank, Ashley and others were waiting for us in a BMW and we went to Motapo's place, that's where we were based and nothing happened that week until Friday.  On that Friday Moses said we should go around and reconnoitre the area to try and get another target and we went, it was on Friday night.  I didn't know the Northern Province.  I didn't know the places that we were going to.  We went to some place around 10 at night at Rotwane and Moses saw a shop and he told Ashley to stop the vehicle, which he did and then he sent Ashley to go to the shop to buy and check the situation in the meantime so that we can go in.  Ashley went in, bought some cigarettes and he came back and informed Moses that the situation was conducive for us to go in and we stopped around the shop and myself and Moses went out and we left Ashley and Lebohang behind and I was following Moses from behind.  We had rifles in our possession and when we entered the door of the shop, Moses opened fire.  He shot the father and the mother and there was a young boy, who could have been around 14 years old and when Moses shot the father and the mother, this young boy managed to get hold of Moses and I too was inside and they were wrestling over the firearm and Moses said:  "You see what this boy's doing, shoot him" and I shot him.  Even though Moses had not instructed me so, I would have shot the young boy.  I shot him and I thought he had died because I shot him at close range, only later I discovered that he didn't die.
	We went out.  We went back into the car and drove away, but the vehicle did not drive a long distance and it broke down.  We left the vehicle there and took our bag with firearms and ran away until the following day which was on a Saturday.  On Saturday morning we wanted to get a vehicle, or hike away and the first vehicle that we came across was a police vehicle and the police apparently had surrounded the whole area.  They arrested us and we were made to lie down, the three of us and Ashley was not there because we had planned that because the vehicle is not a stolen vehicle, he should run into the bush and later he would claim that he was robbed of his vehicle, so that he was not there when we were arrested. 
	We were made to lie down and Moses tried to run away as we were lying down, because we had our bags hidden just nearby so that these people should not see that we had firearms and when Moses rose, trying to get to the bags, one white man shot him and he died and that's how we were arrested.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Then did you at the shop where the two people were shot and the son was also shot, did you take anything?   Other than shooting them, what else did you do?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: We took nothing.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of firearms did you personally use and what sort of firearm did Moses use?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: We had AK47 rifles in our possession and Lebohang had a grenade, an F1 grenade.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you were arrested.  What happened after your arrest?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Okay.  We were separated, the three of us.  I was taken to Warmbaths and Ashley I think was taken to Naboomspruit and Lebohang was taken to Nylstroom.  We were detained under Section 29 of 1982 and investigations were conducted for about ten days.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is there any stage that you escaped from prison?  At what stage?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: May the question please be repeated?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct to say there was a stage that you escaped from prison?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee about that?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Why did you run away and how?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I ran away from, I escaped actually from Potgietersrus Police Station.  I was in the company of Lebohang.  Ashley didn't come along with us because he was sick on that day.  We escaped through the roof.  We sawed the rafters of the roof and fled.  We escaped because we didn't want to be in prison.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee, by all what you did, what were you trying to achieve?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Moses Motapo, he resided in the Northern Province and we resided in Alexandra and he told me that we should capture the whole of the Northern Province and put it under APLA so that we could realise our objectives, the objective was to capture the Northern Province.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How were you going to capture by killing the people that you killed?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: We were not in a hurry, so we were to do it little by little and at the same time we were trying to organise people, because we also had new recruits in the Northern Province, so we had decided that we'd also try and get hold of arms and ammunition and we wanted to increase the number of our group.

MR MBANDAZAYO: If one says to you that you killed only white people and that you attack was just a racist attack what would you say to that?  Or it was a plain robbery, it had nothing to do with politics, what would you say to that?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I would dispute that because even black police people in the area would have been targeted, unfortunately we didn't come across them.  We would have carried out similar operations against them and rob them of their firearms, so the whites were one group of people about whom we were sure we were going to get firearms from.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, what do you say to the family?  Especially the Bouwer family who is present, the son who survived in the incident, in your last incident, what do you say to him?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: To them I'll say that now that I'm here before this Truth and Reconciliation Commission, I'm trying to reconcile with them.  I would like for them to forgive me for my deeds.  I wish they understand that we did what we did during those days because we were APLA members, but now that I'm here to try and reconcile with them, may they please forgive me?

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's the evidence of the first applicant, Chairperson.  Thank  you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr van der Heever, would you like to put any questions to the applicant?

MR VAN DER HEEVER: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: Mr Mhlongo, you've made reference to boers, did you refer to Afrikaans speaking whites or whites in general?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Here I'm referring to white persons because I cannot differentiate between boer and a white person, or should I say a boer and any other white persons.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: This incident took place two months before the 1994 election, is that correct?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes, that is correct.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: The Interim Constitution was already in place, is that correct?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes, I would say so.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: And the date of the election was already announced, is that correct?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: That is correct.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: You've also made this confession, or this statement to Mr Steenkamp the Magistrate in Tzaneen and you say that - is that statement correct, or is it ...

CHAIRPERSON: We know one aspect that isn't, but besides that aspect relating to the selling of the car parts, is it correct?

MR VAN DER HEEVER: Is it correct?  Because Mr Mhlongo, I want to ask you, on page 46 of the document handed to us by the kind lady from the Amnesty Committee, on page 46 and referring to the incident in Roedtan
"We could not get money to take"

CHAIRPERSON: Approximately where is this?

MR VAN DER HEEVER: The middle of page 46.

CHAIRPERSON: If you could just start again.
MR VAN DER HEEVER
"We could not get money to take,"
so you wanted to rob the shop or the cafe, according to this statement.