Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-12

<UNKNOWN>: So my believe quite frankly is that the - as oppression grew it was clear that Apartheid was not going to change by itself, it would only change by external pressure.  The banks began to realise that and it was only when South Africa was in economic crisis that the banks realised it was no longer going to be profitable and they pulled the plug.
 You can never say this was the moment when things changed.  This really doesn't work like that, but I do believe that the decision by the banks, particularly Chase Manhattan ...(inaudible)  your loans;  that everyone not necessarily simultaneously, the South African Government, local business and international business came to the conclusion change had to come about and the whole system eventually collapsed to where we are now.

<UNKNOWN>: If I may just add one point?  I think that the nature of the power structure has to be taken into accounts.  It was financial loans, sanctions and critically the crisis for the military.
 The Apartheid structure in the region in South Africa was based on the military.  The military having spend for something like eight years before 1990, 70 percent of its total budget on operational costs with the prospect of having a hot revolution, developing in Namibia and before that Zimbabwe.
 The die was cast just before the Angolan - the last Angolan battle, because at that point the South African Government was being told very actively by the Western powers by '87, '88 '89 that you better pull back and end Namibia.  
 There we had a massive military presence with the country of only a population of one million.  So in order to avoid that hot revolution spreading to South Africa, there was control change.  It is president De Klerk himself who said on the eve of change that he change not because he wanted to, but because he had to in the sense that the pressures of finance and the announcement in February was on the eve a week before the United States Congress was going into a new package of sanctions.
 So I want to also now question the political judgement of the business community that has submitted to the TRC that sanctions were a blunt weapon and never worked when in fact the rulers of South Africa and global opinion, including the collaborating countries of the West, conclude in the end that sanctions did work.
 Finally, I think the most critical point which is (indistinct) from my statement at the beginning was that even if it hurts the African people, the African people passed for sanctions and they preferred this as another route.
 I would like to ask corporate business too, why did they not protest when Arch Bishop Tutu in the late '80's appealed for the Danish people not to buy coal from South African and eventually he was vilified correctively and then his passport was withdrawn.  They did not even demand (indistinct) with the rest of the world that his passport should be retained.
 It is these very simple acts of humanitarian concern that we also fail to see throughout this terrible history that we've had.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  There seems to be no other questions.  Thank you very much to both of you.  I'm glad we've managed to get finished before you go off to your meeting and Lord Hughes, I hope you'll join us for lunch.
 Thank you.  Can we break for lunch and come back at two o'clock.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION
ANNE BERNSTEIN:  PRESENTATION

CHAIRPERSON: Can I welcome Ann Bernstein.  Ann, good afternoon to you.  Thank you very much for coming.  You're coming very much as an independent to this Commission this afternoon.
 You're going to be dealing with two issues.  One is a study that you conducted with other people whom we've seen around this afternoon - during the course of the last two days.
 Looking at eight different countries, if I remember, in the transition phase and the role that business played in that.  You're also going to be talking to us about the urban foundation.
 Can I just ask Dr Boraine to assist you in taking the oath or affirmation.  If you'll just stand, please.

DR BORAINE: Welcome.  Will you take the oath or the affirmation?

ANN BERNSTEIN: The affirmation.

DR BORAINE: The affirmation.

ANN BERNSTEIN: (Duly sworn in, states).

DR BORAINE: Thank you so much.

CHAIRPERSON: Anne, you can proceed.  Sorry, can I ask people to come in or close the doors.  One of the two.  thank you.