Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-19

MR LOUBSCHER: I next call Mr Kriel, Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Loubscher?

MR LOUBSCHER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Kriel, the second half of 1993, were you a member of the AWB?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR LOUBSCHER: What rank did you have?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I was a Brigadier.

MR LOUBSCHER: Were you also a member of the Volksfront?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, I was a member of the Volksfront and I served there a "sekundie" for the leader of the Volksfront in the Northern Free State.

MR LOUBSCHER: You have handed in an application for amnesty which is on page 1, 2 and 3 of the bundle.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR LOUBSCHER: And then there are two further writings which have been directed to the Amnesty Committee, which appear on page 4, 5 to 7?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR LOUBSCHER: Mr Kriel, in your application for amnesty you refer to acts which are described here as terrorist acts, and places you refer to are Pretoria, Krugersdorp and Henneman?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR LOUBSCHER: And the nature of the particulars you refer to quite a few things.  You say the storage of explosives, the explosions of certain places and then the incitement of certain people to commit terrorist acts?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That's correct.

MR LOUBSCHER: And places which you refer to are the Hill View School, Cosatu House, Verwoerdburg Post Office and the Krugersdorp Post Office?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR LOUBSCHER: This had no relevance to this application?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: No, Chairperson, I have already appeared for the matters in Pretoria and that has been completed.

MR LOUBSCHER: Has your application been approved?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

MR LOUBSCHER: And the Krugersdorp incidents?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes.

MR LOUBSCHER: So whatever is left in the application are the acts for which Messrs Labuschagne, Botes and van der Watt have been charged?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR LOUBSCHER: And these are the acts which are contained in the charge sheet as it appears on page 63 to 84 in the bundle?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: So Mr Kriel, do I understand you, you are applying for amnesty in respect of each and every one of those charges?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Possession of firearms and ammunition, all these charges?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: As far as I know there is not a "possession of firearms and ammunition" involved but as commander I am responsible and I ask for amnesty with regards to that, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Would that be on the basis that you knew that the people under you were in possession of illegal or unlicensed weaponry and you not only condoned it but encouraged it?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Chairperson, I gave them the instructions to commit acts of terror which includes everything, whether it be death or the possession of explosives or whatever it may be.

MR LOUBSCHER: You were indeed arrested and charged with the other three applicants in this matter?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR LOUBSCHER: Now Mr Labuschagne has said that you gave him an instruction at some point in time, September or October of 1993.  Let us get to the contents of that instruction to Mr Labuschagne.  Can you please tell the Committee where the idea of this instruction came from, was it your own plan?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: No, Chairperson, at that stage the Afrikaner Volksfront was established, it was organised in certain regions.  In Welkom I resorted under the Northern Free State region of the Afrikaner Volksfront.  At the same time I was also member and commander of the AWB in this area.  The Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging was a party to the Afrikaner Volksfront.  In other words although there were two organisations, the AWB was affiliated to the Afrikaner Volksfront.  I would just like to tell you that I received instructions from the Afrikaner Volksfront side.

MR LOUBSCHER: From whom?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: From the Afrikaner Volksfront side, from Mr Jaco de Villiers the leader of the Volksfront in the Northern Free State, after which I cleared it with the head office of the Afrikaner Volksfront with a Colonel Pretorius who worked there, who confirmed that the acts of terror had to happen.

MR LOUBSCHER: Could you please state what was Mr de Villiers' instructions to you?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: His instructions were that we had to immediately go over to acts of terror and he also told me that the other groups like the "Boere Krisis Aksie" were already in the country to disrupt the country and we had to start immediately with acts of terror.

MR LOUBSCHER: And what was the objective of these acts of terror, what was the purpose?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The purpose of these actions was to focus on the fight for freedom of the Boerevolk and then secondly it was to disrupt the government of the day and to force them to pay attention to it.  Thirdly, it was necessary that the ANC who was a strong party at that stage, to get their attention that the Boere want their freedom.

MR LOUBSCHER: And how was this to be accommodated, how would the Volksfront accommodate this?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The Afrikaner Volksfront's opinion was that the freedom has to include a reasonably large piece of land where the people could govern themselves.  There was a difference between all of us, there was a Boerevolk and an Afrikaner Volk.  And I would like to say I am a Boer and not an Afrikaner.

MR LOUBSCHER: What you are describing here now, is this what is termed the Volkstaat idea?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR LOUBSCHER: Tell me Mr Kriel, did you discuss these instructions with General Viljoen at any stage, that you received from Mr de Villiers and Kommandant Pretorius?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson, after our arrest or sometime thereafter, Mr Labuschagne and myself travelled to General Viljoen and on two occasions I met with him, once with Mr Labuschagne and the other occasion as well where I told him: "There are lots of people in prison who are being charged, and you gave the instructions, what are you going to do?"  He said that we should all apply for amnesty and he would also state so in his application for amnesty.  He also mentioned that because of his instructions many people acted whom he did not know personally and they went through the structures, but he gave us the assurance that his application would state this and then he told us to apply for amnesty.

MR LOUBSCHER: The leader of the AWB, Mr Terre'blanche, was he aware of what was happening here and what was his opinion?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is correct, Chairperson.  I knew Mr Terre'blanche very well.  We walked a road for many years.  A few days before the Volksfront's instruction he came to, I visited him at Ventersdorp and he said the acts of terror must continue and he gave me specific instructions to continue.  He said he approved the instructions of the Afrikaner Volksfront.

MR LOUBSCHER: If we could come back to your instructions to Mr Labuschagne.  This instruction, the instruction that you received, did you convey it to him?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Yes, Mr Labuschagne was my second in command.  I evaluated him as a very capable officer and gave him an instruction to establish a cell which he did, and I gave him the instruction to continue with the acts of terror.

MR LOUBSCHER: Did you identify the targets or did you leave it to him to identify his own targets?