Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-18

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Bhani, it transpired during the cross-examination that the victims are saying that there were many people in the supermarket.  Now, my question will be, you indicated that you shot those people, five people and three were injured, can you explain to the Committee, how were you shooting (indistinct) you were shooting a person one by one and all those, how (long silence) - okay, let me repeat it, it transpired during cross-examination that the victims are saying that there were many people in the supermarket, more than the number which you have already indicated, the five dead and the three injured.  Now, can you tell the Committee how were you shooting in the supermarket?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: The rifle was in automatic, we were shooting, as the rifle was in automatic, we were not shooting a person, we were not shooting them one by one, we were not placing a firearm in the forehead and shooting them one by one, we were just shooting at them automatically.

MR MBANDAZAYO: So are you trying to say to the Committee that it's possible that some of the people you missed during that shooting (indistinct)?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: That is possible.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, the other point, Mr Chairman, was that it was raised by one member of the Committee and which we did not canvass, it was put to you when you left Umtata to go to Welkom, it was asked about what were your instructions, and what I want to get from you and explain to Committee, you were told to come to Umtata by the Director of Operations, as you indicated, and that you will meet the regional commander, for what specific purpose were you, with the exception that you were also going to take over as a regional commander ...(intervention).

MR MALAN: Sorry, that's to Welkom, not to Umtata.

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: Please repeat your question.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee what were your specific instructions, when you left Umtata to Welkom, what was your mission, with the exception of taking over from Khotle?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: I was deployed here, I was not given instructions about what to do when I got here, I would see that on the field, we would see what to do.

MR MBANDAZAYO: So what you are saying is that you were going to seek the target and identify, seek and identify the target on your own?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And thereafter will you have to get an approval to execute the mission?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: That is correct.

MR MALAN: May I just ask the question, when were you supposed to take over as Free State regional commander?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: There was no specific date.

MR MALAN: Who was to confirm that appointment?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: The decision was going to come from the regional commander of that time, together with the director.

MR MALAN: Was the regional commander at that time, was he to decide when he steps down and when you would be taking over?  We're talking about Khotle.

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: That was going to depend, because before he would step down, I was supposed to know what he knew according to this area, the area that he belonged to.

MR MALAN: Was he also from Umtata?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: Yes.

MR MALAN: Was he in Welkom at that time, how long had he been there?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: I wouldn't know, because we were not staying in the same place, but we would see each other when we meet in Umtata.

MR MALAN: When was the last time that you saw him in Umtata, how long before this incident?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: It was early in 1993, but I don't remember the month and the date.

MR MALAN: So he had not been in Welkom for long by that time when you arrived?

MANGALISEKILE BHANI: It depends, because you would be in your area and then we would go back to the base where we were staying and where the director was also staying.  It might happen that he was there for a long time, maybe I would meet him at this place when he was there for a particular reason.

MR MALAN: We will ask that of him when he comes to give his evidence.  Thank you.

MR STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, I believe I have already had my ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: (inaudible).  Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED