Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-09

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/1 guns at him and they assaulted us.  They said they had been sent by my former employer that I must produce all the weapons there at home, like AK-47.  I must also show my car - they wanted to take out the weapons.  I showed my car and opened my car.  They said, "Where is this AK-47 in this car?"  I said, "No, I don't have an AK-47".  They assaulted me and kicked me and they got me up and took me back to the house.  They pointed guns at all my children.  My boy was also in the bedroom.  He was also being assaulted and they took me outside to the door and beat me up and they took off all the dockets of the car and they took me back and they were assaulting me all that time.  Once I was on the door the police kicked me and my spectacles fell and the soldiers trampled on them and I went back to the house.  When I arrived in the house, all my children - they were pointing guns at all my children.  The other boy was being assaulted.  When I went back inside the house the second my boy had been so terribly assaulted I couldn't ... (inaudible) ... was already swollen.  They assaulted us for hours.  I think it was about an hour.  When my neighbours tried to come out they pointed torches at him and he went inside.  I was also swollen and was very injured.  For about an hour we were being assaulted.  From there these police they left and these soldiers left.  We were all completely so injured.  I can't even begin to explain that now.  I heard from the children that they had taken my boy, they put plastic on his head and they took him away with them.  So there was a visitor at home who took me with his car and put me in hiding in another house.  I stayed there and I came back the following day.  They said Sibongiseni was brought back  /towards

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/2 towards dawn.  He had been taken by the soldiers but now he's at Mshiyeni Hospital.  I've also rushed there and went to the police to report this.  The police gave me a form and I took this to the hospital and I was treated by the doctor.  They said no, they would not admit me, I would be treated as an out-patient.  They took X-rays and I asked, "What happened to my boy?"  They said he had been admitted.  I went to the ward where he had been admitted.  I found him that he was there.  He was completely swollen.  I couldn't even recognise him, he was so swollen.  It was the nurse who had to show me, "This is your son", and eventually he was discharged from the hospital and I went to report this to the union.  The union took me to the Legal Resource Centre and I reported this issue at the Legal Resource.  This case stayed for a long time and there was no court case about this issue, the case I had reported, but just before there was a court hearing, Mr Lyster said he was going overseas, but he's going to hand this over to another lawyer.  This lawyer will meet him in court, but if this lawyer required to meet us before that he was going to write to us.  This lawyer didn't write to us, but just two days before the court hearing my son went there.  He said the lawyer said he had telephoned us to say, "Come", but we didn't get this message and then the lawyer said he dismissed the case, "Because you didn't come to me after I had made a call for you to come".  Another thing that I forgot to mention was that my property was damaged.  The soldiers broke down everything, furniture, radio, television.  They were just like breaking down everything.  The police came and they took statements from us and asked me could I point out who  /the soldiers

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/4 the soldiers were.  I said yes, I could point them out.  They said there was going to be a parade on Thursday.  I must come and identify these soldiers.  There never was such a parade.  That was the end of the whole thing.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you, Baba Nzama.  Are you finished?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

DR MAGWAZA: There are a few questions I would like to ask, so that you can clarify certain things.  You said in 1963 you were arrested?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was arrested.

DR MAGWAZA: Could you explain to us why were you arrested?

WITNESS:  When we were arrested at that time it would seem that there was some kind of announcement that was made by Mr Leballo with regard to the whole South Africa and then they collected us and arrested us.  I just saw in the morning the special branch came to arrest us.  At that time the charge was three months without trial.  I think at that stage it was through Mr Vorster, who was still ruling.

DR MAGWAZA: I didn't hear, it's Mr who?

WITNESS:   It's Mr Leballo.  There was some rumours that Mr Leballo in Lesotho - Mr Leballo of PAC, he said there is something he'd said -  Potlako Leballo.  They said it was because of what he had said that they were arresting us.  They were arresting everybody.

DR MAGWAZA: How long were you arrested then?

WITNESS:   I was arrested for two months and the third month my family involved lawyer, Mr Austin.

DR MAGWAZA: Another question I would like to say is that in your statement you said there were soldiers in your family and surrounded it and they were with one ZP.

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR MAGWAZA: How did you realise that the other one was a ZP?

DR MAGWAZA: /---   He had

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/5

WITNESS:   He had a camouflage, but the hat he was wearing, it looked like the ZP, but even the soldiers did say, "We are with a ZP guy here".

DR MAGWAZA: Another thing I would like to know is that from these people who came to harass you at home is there any one of them you can identify and recognise?

WITNESS:   These soldiers, at that time I could identify them, but I don't know now.  A long time has elapsed.

DR MAGWAZA: You are not clear now?

WITNESS:   I don't know, because a long time has elapsed since then.

DR MAGWAZA: In your speech again you said they came to your house because they had been told by your former employers that you have got weapons in your car.  Who were those people you were working for who told the soldiers that you had weapons?

WITNESS:   I think I would say those were my employers, because we were in conflict with them.  We were fighting over Cosatu.

DR MAGWAZA: Your employers?

WITNESS:   Yes, where I was working.

DR MAGWAZA: You are not free to say them?   Is there no such?

WITNESS:   No.

DR MAGWAZA: Those were your former employers?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's what I suspected, because the soldiers also told me that.

DR MAGWAZA: Another thing I would like to ask you, as your son was injured, they took him away and they had covered his face, during the time when they covered his face, does he explain what they did to him?

WITNESS:   Yes, he explained what they did to him.  He said they discussed with him, interrogated.  It was around June 16, they were asking him.  They said would he go and report to the police that he and his father - they asked if he was going to report

DR MAGWAZA: /to the

DR MAGWAZA: 13A/6 to the police that they had assaulted him and his father and my son said, "No, we are not going to report this thing".  So he said they threw him on a cliff and he rolled over and got up on the other end and he started looking for his way back home.

DR MAGWAZA: The last thing, as we are a Commission here, the most important thing to ask is that from all those victims we should hear from them that since they were harassed how could we help them heal those wounds.  As far as you are concerned, how can we help you and your family?

WITNESS:   I got harassed, as I said, that I lost my job, but I also got injured as well and my property was damaged by the soldiers.  I was really very much harassed by that.

DR MAGWAZA: Job-wise, your property and your body.  Is there something that happened in your body that maybe disabled you from being able to work?

WITNESS:   No, I got sick at that stage, but now I'm all right.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much, Baba.  I will pass on to the Chair.