Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   When we hear, since we were not there, Mthunzi told us that Thelu came out with cars.  Some of them were on legs.  They were coming to the home where Thulani was.  One, this young boy, he told Mthunzi that they must tell Thulani that he must run away because the Ndlovu family is coming.

DR MAGWAZA: What was the name of this young boy who came to tell you this?   Is he called Sbo Sibisi?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR MAGWAZA: Thulani started running.

WITNESS:   Yes, Mthunzi told him.  Thulani ran away.  He ran a long distance.  I can't estimate how long it was.

DR MAGWAZA: Were they following him?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were following, they were after him.  The distance it's like from here, and you can pass the Checkers Stores from here.  They were following him.

DR MAGWAZA: Were they running after him on foot?

WITNESS:   Yes, but Ndlovu was coming on the other side driving a car.  When he was far away he started - they started shouting, asking for the other people to stop him.  And then they blocked his way and he had to run away back to Taylors.  On the other side they surrounded him.  That's where they get out from their cars, they went to him.  They were holding guns.  They hold him with his hands.  They put him into a car.

DR MAGWAZA: Whose car is that?  Is it Ndlovu's car?

WITNESS:   Yes.

DR MAGWAZA: Is it true that Ndlovu's car was a blue Toyota?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.  Yes, the car left.  They took him to Ndlovu's place.  When they arrived at Ndlovu's place he was locked in a room where there was only one door.

DR MAGWAZA: This Ndlovu, is he - does he have any position in the community?

WITNESS:   He is an induna, yes.

DR MAGWAZA: Of which chief?

WITNESS:   Of Chief Ngcobo.

DR MAGWAZA: You can continue.

WITNESS:   After he was locked we were told by him after came the police.  He told us that they didn't lock Thulani, Thulani broke out and ran away.  The police asked him how did he get out through the window when the door was open.  He said, "I didn't know."  When Thulani was locked in - he was locked in Ndlovu's place, and they started to harass him inside.  They followed him.

DR MAGWAZA: When he get out did they follow him?

WITNESS:   No, they shot at him.  While he was trying to escape through the window they shot him.  He ran for a long distance.  He was running approaching a mountain, and there were some families.  They were running behind him and they were holding some weapons.  When he arrived at the place he fall because he was shot by that time.  They shot at him before they arrived at him and attacked him with weapons.  There were too many.  We don't know how many there were, but we know that they were all ... (inaudible) ... Ndlovu was at home by that time, but there were these people which he uses to do all these things.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you know their names?

WITNESS:   One of the leaders of the people who were attacking it's Sbu.  The surname is Duma.

DR MAGWAZA: Is this the only person you know?

WITNESS:   This other boy ... (inaudible) ... Duhle Mahlasela.  No, no, it's Shezi, the surname.   These are the people who were running after him?    ---   Yes, and ... (inaudible) ... Ngcobo and some other older men, elderly men.

DR MAGWAZA: Can you tell the Commission that this Sbu Shezi - where are all these people you are naming?

WITNESS:   They are still staying - they are staying at Taylors, but I can't tell you where they are at the moment, because at the time we were looking for them they were running and hiding.  On the 29th they ran after him, they catch him and killed him.

DR MAGWAZA: How did they kill him?  With what did they kill him?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  We heard that they first shot him and then they stabbed him, and they also hit him with an axe.  They also stabbed him with spears and some knobkerries.  And he died at that time.  We knew that he died at that time, but when we heard some rumours - this Lulu who called Ndlovu told us he didn't die on the 29th.  They couldn't catch him because he was running.

DR MAGWAZA: Did you ever get a death certificate which shows the cause of his death?

WITNESS:   No, we don't have it because we didn't even open a case on this matter.  After three months - and after some time I was walking around, and then there were some people who came to me and said I must come and look to identify his - to look for his body.  We went around looking for his body but we couldn't find anything.  After three months some people called and they said we mustn't reveal their names.  They said I must come to the mortuary to look for his body.  I phoned the DP people.  They give me some police and soldiers so that we can go around looking for Thulani's body.  This Reggie Mkhize was the man who was giving us help.  And then we left the police and soldiers to go and look for it and we couldn't find anything.

DR MAGWAZA: This happened on the 29th of May?  To which police station did you first go?

WITNESS:   On the first - the ANC people told us to go to Plessislaer Police Station, and at that place they told us that we must ... (inaudible) ... go to Khaluzi.  The police at Khaluzi said we must go to police who are at Taylors.

DR MAGWAZA: And which means they refused to help you at Khaluzi.  Do you remember who was the station commander there?

WITNESS:  No, it was our first time to be there.  We didn't know anything about that.

DR MAGWAZA: And from there you went to ask for help at the office of the Democratic Party in town.

WITNESS:   Yes, we went there, and we were taken there by Mr Msimbi, and he is from the Methodist Church.  He took us to the Democratic Party, and then this Reg Mkhize helped us.  He opened a case.

DR MAGWAZA: He didn't find your child?

WITNESS:   Yes, we didn't find the child.  The first investigator who took the statement is Mr Vilakazi.  I don't remember his name.  While we were looking for the body Bala Naidoo from Durban came.  Bala Naidoo used to go to Taylors and sleep there at night searching for the body, but he couldn't find anything.  And then after a year and about five months I went to Durban because we were just sitting and hired the place, and the owner of the place told us we have to leave because someone had bought the place.  After about one year and five months I went to the ... (inaudible) ... police to find out exactly what was happening with the case.  When I arrived at Pentrich I found that Bala Naidoo had been moved and there now we have got Mr Vilakazi, the one who took the statement from us.  After two years, on the third year, it was about August, I went to Pentrich again to ask about the results of the investigation, and there I found Bala Naidoo.  He told me that Thulani's case is over.

DR MAGWAZA: Which means Bala Naidoo was gone and then he came back again?

WITNESS:   Yes.  And I asked how did it happen that the case was over if it didn't come to court?  Bala Naidoo told us he doesn't know.  The prosecutor said he didn't find Mr Ndlovu guilty of any crime.

DR MAGWAZA: What is the name of the prosecutor?

WITNESS:   I don't know the name of the prosecutor because I didn't appear in court.

DR MAGWAZA: Did Bala Naidoo know the name?

WITNESS:   He might know, because he was the one who was investigating.  They told me that the case was on, started, and I don't know what happened from there after.  I asked how did they try the case without me as the mother of Thulani.

DR MAGWAZA: Was Ndlovu arrested?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was arrested, because we went to a lawyer, Kajee.  He said Ndlovu must be arrested and he must not be given bail.  He was locked for three months.  After four months I was told that he has been released by his lawyers on bail for R500,00.

DR MAGWAZA: Who was his lawyer?