Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, regarding the VAT, it was during the time when we were gathered in town and some of the boers would arrive with dogs.  They couldn't give us any time to discuss or to arrange or to do whatever we were there for and there was somebody who was, of a senior.  He was said to have been coming from Pietersberg and there was no time.  The, Patrick Makado was trying to explain on a loud hailer and the dogs were just on us and the rubber bullets were on us and we were running away.  Whilst we were running I ran, I had to take cover in a shop in one White man's shop, so called Bopa and as he was about to close, he chased me away and I went out.  When I went out, I went to the other side of, of the hospital.  As I arrived at our own hospital, there was a van which approached and some other three privates and another van.  This other van had a lot of dogs and they started, you know, breaking all, you know, the cars stopped and everybody was demonstrating.  The boers just grabbed me on, threw me under the van and I was thrown into the cell in the police station.  I was put in a cell.

MS SEROKE: Were there also protest marches against the Black local authorities?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well we, it was about the VAT issue.

MS SEROKE: When you broke the things that the Zimbabwean women bought, did you ... (interrupted)

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I broke them because they bought them.

MS SEROKE: Did you break all the stuff that they had bought or you just wanted to demonstrate that they shouldn't have bought from the shops?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I did break a lot of plates and glasses and I was about to destroy the soaps and that was the time when the police fetched me.

MS SEROKE: And so your, you were represented by Mr Ntai in the case that followed this?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: It was Ntai who represented me in this issue.

MS SEROKE: Was Ntai the ANC lawyer or your own lawyer?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: He was the ANC lawyer.

MS SEROKE: But according to your statement that case just did not go any further and you were discharged.

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: I couldn't follow the question.

MS SEROKE: I say nothing came out as a result of the case.  You were not fined or charged?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: What Mr Ntai told me was that he, I didn't have to go back, getting involved in all these activities because I was seen to be wrong.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Sorry, Jeanet.  How long were you in detention?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, about the VAT, it was about three days and then regarding the destruction of the Zimbabweans goods it was just overnight and they released me the following day.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you were telling us how you confronted the Rhodesian, or the Zimbabwean people, you said, if they want to buy, they had rather go to Johannesburg rather than buy in Messina.  Am I correct?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, it is true.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And yet you were protesting against VAT.  Was there any difference between the VAT in Johannesburg and the VAT in Messina.

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I can't talk about the Johannesburg issued because I realized they had bought goods from Johannesburg.  Maybe here in Messina they were just adding to what they had already bought in Jo'burg.

THOMAS MANTHATA: About other things that people seem to have been protesting against is the dumping, if I heard you well and then the VAT.  Did you have any specific complaint against the Black local authorities in Messina?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, regarding the Councillors, there were some differences regard, we even went to their homes to ask them to resign and subsequent to that, police were called and we were in Jimmy Chauke's house and the police arrived and they came on their Casspir.  They just started off shooting and as they were shooting we also retaliated.  We threw some stones to them.  We were throwing stones and whilst we were running away.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Were you in any position of  leadership in the organizations here, in Messina?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, I was in the ANC leadership.

THOMAS MANTHATA: .Was it the Women's League, The Youth or just main ANC?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, that was Women's League.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did the Women's League ever have any specific complaints that were related to the women or to their family life?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: No, not a specific thing.

THOMAS MANTHATA: For the three days that you were in detention, what is it that the police did to you?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: What happened was that one tall police guy arrived.  I don't know his name but I know he's still alive.  When he looked at me he said, when I look at you my eyes really  spill blood and I didn't care about him.  Well, I carried on.  I sang my slogan because it was not really important.  I was involved in what were the problems around.  Of course I did understand that he wouldn't have done anything at that time.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Nothing caused you particular fright or you lost nothing with regards to what you ought to have been doing to the family at the time?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, what I lost, was the job and I, I was working in  Le Pomperei Volaunch and then they chased me and said to me, I must go and seek job from Mandela.  I'm just really getting troubles in getting a job.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you, Jeanet.

RUSSELL ALLY: Jeanet, in your statement you say that you were, you were charged with, with intimidation.  It's true that the case was eventually dropped but do you consider what you did to have been intimidation?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Could you repeat the question please?

RUSSELL ALLY: The charge against you was intimidation in that you forcefully took away this woman's goods, you destroyed this, these goods.  Now although the case was, was eventually dropped, I'm asking you whether you consider whether or not your actions could be described as intimidation.  Do you see what you did as intimidation?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: I wouldn't say I was really intimidating.  I think I was determined in doing what I was doing, not really intimidating people.

RUSSELL ALLY: So even if this woman didn't support the boycott, did you believe that because she didn't support the boycott you therefore could actually take her goods and, and destroy her goods?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, it is true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And was this done done, was this, was this common.  If people didn't support the boycott was this a common thing to do when there was a consumer boycott?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, because whosoever didn't understand what we were doing in our organizational behaviour, we had to torture such people because no, maybe at one stage he or her could really support us in one way or another.

RUSSELL ALLY: But can you also say that when you, when your lawyer Seth Ntai, when he spoke to you about this, he actually didn't agree with what you did.  That's, that's the impression I got from what you said, that he said that what you did was not necessarily the correct thing to do.  Can you, can you just clarify.   Did I, did I understand what you said when you were giving your testimony, correctly?

JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, what Seth Ntai said was that, I well, as I was seen to have been wrong I shouldn't involve myself very well to be that prominent in the organizational structures especially when people are protesting.  Well, I must monentrarily decline, I must just be a back-bencher or a supporter from behind and not that prominent.  Well, I was not that frightened.  I carried on the way I was because that is how I was determined.  I just in front.  I was very much in front.