Amnesty Hearings — Potchefstroom — UNKNOWN

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: The things your father taught you, such as, for instance, that black people were subservient and that they were slaves, is it correct that what was actually brought to your mind was to actually hate black people?

MR VAN STRAATEN: That's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you then decided later on to actually give expression to that hatred by committing this offence?
1/

MR VAN STRAATEN: /...
229	A VAN STRAATEN

MR VAN STRAATEN: Could you repeat the question?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You later decided to give expression to your hatred through these offences?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: As I said, all those years you were just taught these things and it stuck in your mind?

MR VAN STRAATEN: I would say that this offence gave expression to these principles and the hatred we felt, and that was passed.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You also testified that you were ten years old when your father died.   Now my question is, after your father's death, was your father's influence still felt in your life, did he still have some influence on your thinking?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes, the couple of things that I learnt from him, the things that I saw, that always stayed with me, always stayed in my mind.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: How strong was your father's influence towards yourself, in respect of yourself?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Well, as I said, he was very strict, a thing was either right or wrong, you weren't allowed to put a foot wrong, and he didn't talk much, he beat us quite easily.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were you later a member of any political organisation?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Pardon me?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were you a member of any political organisation?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, I was a supporter of the AWB.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now the feelings regarding the AWB's policy, how did you reach these goals and doctrines if you weren't a member, how did you feel about it?
1/

MR VAN STRAATEN: /...
230	A VAN STRAATEN

MR VAN STRAATEN: The National Party at the time negotiated quite frequently, but they never considered those people on the far right and some of the objectives pursued by the AWB were own Afrikaans schools, self-determination for white South Africans.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: My learned friend asked you what was your objective with this offence, what did you actually want to achieve, do you remember the question?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Your answer was, to prove that the night watch people weren't competent to actually do the job.   What do you mean by that, that they were inferior people because they were black?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, in that time there were also white people who couldn't find employment, but who couldn't find that kind of work.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Do you agree then that what you did, or the motive for what you did had nothing to do with politics?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, the answer which I gave was, as I said, this is the way we were raised, I went to the army, I was taught that our enemies were black people, and that is the view that I wanted to put across.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Would it be correct if I made the statement that what you did was not as a result of an order or instruction given by any political organisation, you and your brothers, you planned this and then actually executed the plan?

MR VAN STRAATEN: It wasn't done on the instructions of any organisation.   This person Robbie Coetzee, who tried to influence me, he told me that I should do a thing like this and then I went to my brothers and I gave them the instruction, and I was the leader more or less in this
1/	matter./...
231	A VAN STRAATEN
matter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I'm going to refer you to the supplementary statement which was drafted, paragraph 19, chairperson and members, paragraph 19, page 5, page 5 of the supplementary statement, page 10 of the index.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, you must ask somebody to index your papers so that it corresponds with ours.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Right, I'm going to read a little bit of this, paragraph 19, it reads as follows
"The commission of the offence was preceded by the following
1.	During June of 1989, I approached my brothers with the idea that we should establish a cell or organisation which would operate in the PWV area."
My question is, was this cell or organisation established by yourself and your brothers?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes, it was established and that was our first act which actually amounted to a failure and to an offence.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did this organisation have a name?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, it didn't have a name.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was it known to the public?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, it was just established and just committed this particular act on that night, we were caught and that was it.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: In other words, yourself and your brothers, you were the members of that cell, that organisation?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I also got these copies from Cape Town, my copies are not indexed, but I'll refer to a letter which he wrote,
1/	I'm/...
232	A VAN STRAATEN
I'm going to refer to a letter which you wrote, I don't know what page that would be, I'm going to refer you to a letter and I want you to tell me whether this is the letter that you wrote?

UNKNOWN: Page 46, to be of assistance to you, Mr Mpshe.

<UNKNOWN>: Is that the letter dated the 2nd of October 1992?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is correct.

MR VAN STRAATEN: That is correct, chairperson, I wrote the letter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I'm reading from the second paragraph from the bottom, and it reads as follows
"As a result of the fact that the murder was not premeditated, it just arose from pure racial hatred, and the purpose of the struggle against apartheid was aimed in such a way, the death of the two night watchmen was caused."
Did you hear that?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Do you agree that the fact that you refer in this letter to the fact that it arose from pure racial hatred, that that once again shows that it had nothing to do with politics?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Well, as I understand politics, it was the way I was raised, and in my experience the various races were pitted against each other and these were the consequences.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you chairperson, no further questions.

MR DE JAGER: Mr Van Straaten, is it not true that you took the truck and you couldn't continue with it because its brakes failed?
1/

MR VAN STRAATEN: /...
233	A VAN STRAATEN

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, no, chairperson, we purposely left it behind to make it look like a robbery.

MR DE JAGER: Well you don't know, because you weren't in the truck?

MR VAN STRAATEN: That's correct.

MR DE JAGER: During your evidence at the trial you said that the truck wouldn't move any further, that is also what one of your brothers testified?

MR VAN STRAATEN: You see, chairperson, if we really wanted to steal the truck, or wanted to remove it, I would have obtained a qualified driver to actually drive the truck, I would have taken such a person with me.

MR DE JAGER: If you really wanted to tie up the night watchmen, wouldn't you have taken ropes to tie them up?

MR VAN STRAATEN: Yes, that's correct.

MR DE JAGER: Then why didn't you take ropes with you?

MR VAN STRAATEN: I told Dawid and Gideon that there were ropes in my vehicle and that's why they didn't take ropes with them.

MR DE JAGER: But you were the leader, you wanted to go and tie the guards up and you didn't actually take ropes to do so?

MR VAN STRAATEN: That's correct.

MR DE JAGER: Wasn't this just robbery of a vehicle, Mr Van Straaten?

MR VAN STRAATEN: No, chairperson.

MR DE JAGER: Were you drinking that whole day, whilst you were planning the offence?

MR VAN STRAATEN: I think I arrived at Dawid and Willem's place at about six o'clock that evening, they were sitting in the bar and they were drinking, and we did drink, but we
1/	also,/...
234	A VAN STRAATEN
also, we still knew what we were doing.