Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1999-02-24

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: And when this throng of people approached, they were walking swiftly, and when they were closer we started hearing a gunshot.  And we all left the street where we were standing and we went towards Brown's shack behind which we hid.  They also came and they hid behind the other side of the very same shack, and one person would peep and try to aim at the target with an intention of shooting, and we started throwing stones.  	I think 10 minutes could have elapsed, the same thing was happening, trying to aim, shooting, hiding.  Zwane came, I don't know his name, I just know his surname, that's how we used to relate to each other.  When Zwane came he positioned himself such that we the ANC could see him, and he shot towards the ANC group.  The one first person who fell was Qolile Present, I'm not sure whether the pronunciation is correct here.  He, Qolile fell just in front of me, I was standing behind her.  And I also fell after I was struck by a bullet around the neck, and when I tried to rise I could not, because as I was trying to rise I could see a ball of  fire crossing through my eyes, or in front of me.
At that very same moment I heard my brother calling out to me saying, "...These people have hurt me."  I went to my brother and held his hand, at that moment I realised that he was losing his strength.  There is one other person who came and assisted me.  There were two of these ANC members and we, they carried him on the shoulders, suggesting that I should leave him because I was injured as well.  And they carried Qolile too.  
We went up towards the TPA office and some of us at the time were throwing stones at these people, trying to distract them, and as our group was retreating backwards, that is when Mr Sithole climbed onto the rooftop of Mr Brown's shack and he knelt and started aiming at us.  He started shooting.  That is when I identified him as Mr Sithole because I knew him very well, he was always with us.  
	And once we were at the TPA they turned back half-way from Brown's place.  They too were also pelting us with stones.  They returned and they went down a street that is now named Dastile Street.  They took that street and went further down.  I don't know where they ended up.  And at that time we were injured and we were at the TPA offices waiting for an ambulance.

AZHAR CACHALIA: Thanks.  Mr Dastile what was the size of the group of IFP and the size of the group of ANC at that time, in your estimation?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: They could have been 100 IFP members.  Hundred or more, they were certainly not less than hundred.  And of the ANC group we could have been about 200, or even slightly more than that because people had fled their shacks and they were heading towards the ANC office.

AZHAR CACHALIA: People had fled their shacks and heading towards the ANC office.  Where is the ANC office, sir, in relation to Brown's shack, or in relation to the sports field?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: It was a distance from Brown's shack to the office of the ANC.  It could be about 400 metres from where we were, that is Brown's place, to the ANC office.

AZHAR CACHALIA: Am I correct when I say that it is two streets further up from where Brown's shack is?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Yes, that is correct.  The office is on the third street.

AZHAR CACHALIA: And you have to go a certain distance inside?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: That is correct.

AZHAR CACHALIA: You talked about Qolile Present having been injured in front of you.  Is Qolile Present a male or a female?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: A male.

AZHAR CACHALIA: I just put it to you because in the translation the person was referred to as she, anyhow.  Is that all that you want to say?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: No, Qolile is a male.

AZHAR CACHALIA: I've said yes already.  Is that all that you wish to say in relation to this particular event?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: Yes, that's it.

AZHAR CACHALIA: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Cachalia.  I see now it's twenty five past four.  Would this be a convenient time to adjourn, and then we can commence with the cross-examination tomorrow?  Would nine o'clock be acceptable tomorrow?  Would you be able to be here by, Mr Dastile?

SINDISILE WILFORD DASTILE: We sometimes experience traffic jams along the way here, but we will try to be here at nine o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I would appreciate that if you could be here at nine.

AZHAR CACHALIA: Convey the necessity and the urgency for them to here at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Cachalia.
Yes, so then tomorrow morning we'll start with the cross-examination of Mr Dastile by Mr Claassen and then Mr Draht.  And then, are you calling any other witnesses Mr Cachalia.

AZHAR CACHALIA: I had the intention of calling one other witness, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, then if that witness is called then after that, I'd ask the legal representatives if they could be ready for arguments.  Thank you.  We'll then adjourn until tomorrow morning at this hall at nine o'clock in the morning.  I'd once again request the Correctional Services people if they could please ensure that the applicants are here in good time before nine o'clock, and also ask Mr Dastile to make a special effort to try to beat the traffic tomorrow to be here at nine o'clock so we can have an early start like we did this morning.  I'd just like to thank everybody for being here promptly this morning at nine o'clock, we had a nice early start.  Thank you, so we'll adjourn until nine.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE  ADJOURNS