Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-11

CASE NO: CT/00140

VICTIM: WILLIAM RAKUBU [son]

TESTIMONIES BY: DORA WILLIAMS [mother]
 JOHN WILLIAMS [father]

YASMINE SOOKA: We now call Dora Williams to the witness stand please.  Mr and Ms Williams, we would like to thank you for coming to the Truth Commission.  Before we begin your evidence we would like you both to take the oath please.  Ms Williams if you could  you please stand.

ADV POTGIETER: Can I do this in Afrikaans, right.
DORAH WILLIAMS Duly sworn states

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much you may sit down.

YASMINE SOOKA: [indistinct] understand that you are also going to give testimony would you stand please to take the oath.

ADV POTGIETER: What are your full names?

UNKNOWN: John Williams.
JOHN WILLIAMS Duly sworn states

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much, you may sit.

YASMINE SOOKA: Ms and Mr  Williams as is customary we have assigned Glenda, the Commissioner on my right hand side to assist you in the leading of your evidence.  I will now hand over to Glenda.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Good morning Mr and Ms Williams, thank you very much for coming. We know that it has been quite a long wait for you as well.  You have been coming here since the weekend -  Friday and we know that it has been a long wait.
Thank you very much for your patience and I wonder if I can start with  you Ms Williams.    You are coming to tell us about the story of your son  Rakubu Williams and - and what had happened to him, we are talking about his disappearance.  Would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself and then also to tell us what happened.

UNKNOWN: I am Ms  Williams - Dora Williams,  I've got nine children and married by Mr Williams.  In 1977 the police arrested my son in that year and in 1978 he was in prison for an entire year.  He was released from prison in 1979 and then he went to Thaba 'Nchu for a teaching course -  when he came back after the teacher's course he then went to Lydenburg and he trained as a welder there.  And then he went to Finch Mine and that is where he worked.  He supported me, he looked after me and then the police started looking for him again and then he left his job.  
In 1980 he then just disappeared, we did not know where he went to and we lost contact, we did not know his whereabouts and I can't remember when exactly it was but somebody phoned from Lesotho and said that my son was in Lesotho and from then onwards we never heard another word.  I was very-very afraid of the police when they came to my house then I knew there would be trouble and I didn't know what to do.   And I heard nothing more about my son,  I just hoped he was still alive.
In 1993 when I came back from my grandmother's funeral in Port Elizabeth, my daughter told me that a boy came to our house and -  it was Pakati and said that he became so sad just looking at us because our child had been killed in Tanzania. Yes he told us that my child had been killed in Tanzania.

YASMINE SOOKA: We know it's very painful for you Ms Williams.  Just do take your time and when you are ready you can continue your story.

UNKNOWN: I went to that other boy who's mother -  what is her name now, I can't quite remember - I've forgotten now but her son's name is Johannes.  And he said  that my boy had been killed in Tanzania in one of these camps and that Johannes had been shot dead at the airport - we don't really know what happened.  So I went to Johannes's mother and I went with her to St Paul's Church,  that's where the PAC's also work.  We went there and we told them what we had heard and they told us, this Joba man - he  said yes he knew him and had seen him in Lesotho but after that never saw him again and he told us to go to another secretary.  I think it was Tsidi - he told us to go to Tsidi.  
We found Tsidi and Tsidi went to a lot of trouble, he went to Lesotho to try and find out what had happened to our children.  When he came back he told us that he just heard that they were in Tanzania, but that he was going to try and find out from the PAC offices in Johannesburg - to find out.  
When he came back he said he said that  they did not really want to tell him the truth about our children and we tried everything, we went to the Red Cross for instance to ask them to help us to look for our children.  The Red Cross also tried various avenues, but to no avail.  All the people who left with my son returned, but my son never returned.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I know this is very difficult Ms Williams, but I wonder if  I could  ask you a few more questions about your son.  Can you tell us how old he was when - when he first went away?

UNKNOWN: He was 22 - 23 when he left.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: At the time that he went away from - from home  was he active in PAC?  Was he active in a political organisation at that time when he went away?

UNKNOWN: I really don't know.  I just know that the police always came to my house to look for him, I don't really know what he was involved in.  I can't tell you much about his activities.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So what you know about is that  he was busy training to become a teacher and working at the time?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was working in Finch Mine.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: In Finch Mine?

UNKNOWN: And there all  of a sudden in Finch Mine  I think that's where they planned the whole thing and that's why the police followed them there to Finch Mine and that's - that's where they disappeared after that.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Did he give you any indication that he was leaving the country, did he talk to you about it, did he give you hints that he was going to leave or did he just disappear?

UNKNOWN: No, he never said anything, he always just came home and he went straight to bed.   But one morning when we got up I realised that he hadn't slept in his bed, he never came home and I told the other children - my husband had already left for work.  And I said to my children, we call him Thabiseng, I said  Thabiseng didn't sleep here, I wonder what happened, why hasn't he come home.  And I said   I am going to go to Johannes's  mother,  I was very fond of Johannes.  All the young men who came to our house were very fond of playing games, I can't remember, Chess, they played Chess.  
Now Johannes was always around our house and used to play Chess with my son.  So I wanted to go to Johannes's mother, but at that moment she arrived at my house and she said Ms Williams,  I've just come to ask you, is Johannes here and I said to her that's what I was coming to ask you because Thabiseng also didn't sleep here.  And from then onwards we don't know what happened, the police arrived again and then I was totally confused.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So the police came to your place to tell you that your son had gone or did they come to inquire where your son was?

UNKNOWN: They came to ask about him and I said no, I don't know where he is.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Any of the people who had worked with him at the time or who were friends with him, did they know what had happened - did they try to understand what had happened and  where he had gone to?  The friends who came to play Chess with him?

UNKNOWN: No, none of them knew anything about my son.  The one who said that he was in Tanzania - he did not tell that to us, he told one of the other friends who is also a PAC member - and he said that he was too scared to actually tell us that Joba was dead, that Joba had been killed in a camp and Johannes had been shot dead at the airport.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I need to understand this correctly so the reports that you received via your son's friends were that your son was killed in a camp or at the airport?

UNKNOWN: I didn't quite understand.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: [indistinct]  understand was your son - the reports that you got from the other people, was it that you son was killed at - in the camp or at the airport?

UNKNOWN: My son was killed at the - at the camp.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay.