Special Hearings — Trojan Horse Hearings — 1997-06-02

MR S RYKLIEF: For me as I have said before, my whole attitude to life and way of life have changed. To be very direct I was a dependent on drugs and this now a year and a half I've been rehabilitated now, only for a year and a half. I was dependent on drugs because  I always thought about this incident and these drugs helped me not to think about what happened that day. Like I've said, I was very interested in sport. I played soccer, I swam and after I was shot I could not participate anymore because my legs were not so strong. And this whole incident has spoilt my future. I visited doctors regularly, I went to a doctor a month ago, I have a problem with my knee, the side where I was shot and the doctor said that I had to go to a specialist to be operated on to determine what the problem is. I cannot afford that, and therefore I think that as long as I live I have to suffer, because it costs too much to have this knee operation. This is all I want to say about myself, but I will never forget what happened what happened on 15th October.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Do you want me to repeat the question?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes please.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How did this incident affect you and change your life?

MR I RYKLIEF: I couldn't concentrate on my school work anymore. I don't do sports anymore. I just sit at home and now I'm sitting here again hearing about the same incident that happened twelve years ago and still nothing didn't happen. That's the point I'm making, nothing happened to them, they're still free. One is a - I know one of them are working at an alarm place and he's driving a new Honda Ballade. And I'm sure he's on the payroll but nothing happened to them. Innocent children were shot dead and I really don't know - I'll only be satisfied if something is going to happen to them. Justice. Then I'll be satisfied, otherwise this government is corrupt.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Before I hand over to Dr Orr to make the closing comment, I'm going to ask two questions. I'd like to go back to the question of Shaun Magmoed, who is one of the victims, the sixteen year old young man who was shot on that day. You mentioned that he was in the house and he wasn't throwing stones, I just needed a bit more clarity about that. I know your mom, Mrs Zainab Ryklief, earlier on explained how close to the road your home is and I think, you know, we have been there, we kind of have a picture, it's right on the pavement, you just step out and onto the pavement and the road.
 Now at what point, I'm not sure at what point, Shaun Magmoed and yourselves left the house to observe what was happening outside, to see the truck coming, driving up and down. Could you explain it a bit more? At what point did you leave the house - so that I can understand, you know, kind of have a picture of when Shaun was shot and at what point he ran back into the house. Could you just explain please?

MR S RYKLIEF: When you open the front door about a metre and a half, we had to go perhaps less than a metre and the truck came to a standstill. They started shooting and we ran back. We  were about a metre from the front door or perhaps less than a metre and a half from the front door in the direction of the road to say goodbye to Ismail and we had to turn back.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Then the incident started, the police started shooting, there was throwing of stone and shooting.

MR S RYKLIEF: Yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Oh, I see and also when you mentioned Shaun did not throw any stones, would you have seen him not throwing stones or do you think that he did not throw stones?

MR S RYKLIEF: I saw that he was not throwing stones but not one of us were walking in front of one another. We both walked out together, we were close to one another.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Do you remember what the policemen were wearing?

MR S RYKLIEF: They were wearing the brown khaki uniforms, defence force uniforms.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: The camouflage uniforms?

MR S RYKLIEF: I wouldn't say they were camouflage, it was the brown uniforms.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Question for you Ismail, you mentioned you would like to see justice done. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

MR I RYKLIEF: If I was, if you put it in another situation, and someone else, another guy is going to prison, here it is a different case because they're working for the government and nothing is happening to them. They're free and we were in court for seven years. We had evidence and still nothing has happened to them. Do you understand? They shot innocent people. Three children died and I don't feel there was justice until now, the only time I'm going to feel happy if I know  justice, something is happening to them, they are being punished, they're going to prison or something. So I'm not going to be satisfied.

MS GOBODO- MADIKIZELA: Thank you Ismail. Dr Ramashala wants to say something.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: From both of you, I'm trying to get a mental picture. Here you are coming out of the door and the truck is a distance in front of you.

MR I RYKLIEF: We didn't see the truck at first, we only saw the truck when we were busy walking and so we heard shots and then we turned around and ran back.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: When you saw the truck, had it already started firing?

MR I RYKLIEF: Yes, that's why we turned round and ran back.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay, so you didn't see it when it began to fire, it was already firing.

MR I RYKLIEF: No, when we were walking, we heard shooting, we were walking towards the road, and shots went off and we saw the truck  and it turned around and ran back.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay, so you don't know whether the officers who were firing came out of the crates, looked around and fired, or whether they came out and fired right away, you didn't see that part of it.

MR S RYKLIEF: Personally, he was younger than I was and I was the eldest and I would see that we were walking in front. What I saw was that the truck came to a standstill. It was driving slowly. There were crates on the back of this lorry. They just got up from these crates and started shooting.

WENDY ORR: Thank you to both of you for coming to tell us about your experiences. I think you have, and the previous witnesses have, demonstrated very clearly that one event that takes five minutes, in fact has repercussions and effects which go on and on for many years.  And I want to thank you Shafwaan for being so honest about the effect that it had on you and your drug addiction, because you are certainly not the only person who has turned to drugs and alcohol to remember horrific events like these and I'm very happy to hear that you are not using drugs at the moment. I think this story also illustrates the bizarre nature of our society, in that it was thought appropriate to use guns and bullets against young children, who were only throwing stones. I think we all as Mr Williams said, we all say - how, why, what, how on earth can that happen. And part of the job of the truth commission is to try find an answer to those questions but also to make sure that that will not happen again. Thank you very much.