Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-06

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually Sir, to all the victims, I'll sum them up, I am very sorry for their part because I would have felt the very same way if I was in their shoes.  I'm sorry for them, but for the deed or for the purpose that PAC ordered me to do that, I'm not sorry for that.  But to the victims and how that changed their lives, I want them to take it with the spirit of reconciliation and put the past behind us and take it forward and build South Africa, South Africa needs us.  Thank you, Sir.

MR RILEY: It's very easy to say that now, after everything is done it's very easy to say that now.  You would agree with me?  They were the ones who went through the suffering, two of the mothers of the people who are present here now had very happy normal lives and as a result of this attack their health deteriorated.  I'm not saying that they died as a result of the attack, but they died shortly after that.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Sir, it is not easy, it is not easy to say I'm sorry but I felt it's very necessary to say I'm sorry for that.  Actually as I've said, I felt what that operation did to them, that is why I say with my greatest - I don't know how to put it, I feel it in my heart to come forward and say I'm really sorry.  And if I didn't feel that I would never have come to this Commission and say I feel that we have to reconcile and go forward.

MR RILEY: I know at least two of the families of the victims have suffered financial losses as a result of the attack there, now would you in your personal capacity, would you consider approaching them and offering to compensate them now since you are now in employ and working?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, I don't think that is relevant for this, this is taking it too far, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: There is the question of, and I know that it's been in the public eye of late, but there is the question of reparation and one of the consequences of the granting of amnesty, I'm sure people know, is if it is granted there is in fact an immunity against criminal litigation or proceedings as well as civil litigation.  But if amnesty is granted, the names of the victims of the operation incident will definitely be forwarded by the Panel to the Committee on Reparations and Rehabilitation, for their consideration in terms of the Act.  That we do as a matter of course.

MR RILEY: Thank you, Chair.  I have no further questions.  Thank you, Mr Henge.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RILEY

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Coleridge, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the applicant?

MS COLERIDGE: Yes, I do Chairperson.
	Mr Henge, can you just explain to the Committee what your training consisted of.  Your crash course.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: My crash course firstly, was doing military discipline.  We were taught about the 15 points of attention.  It went to handling of firearms.  There was a basic course on camouflage and concealment based on the ambush, how to carry out an ambush.  It was very intensive.  And how to employ intelligence and counter-intelligence, but it was a very short and brief course.  Thank you.

MS COLERIDGE: And how many people were on the crash course with you?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: On the course we were 10 that were doing it at that time.

MS COLERIDGE: And were you all from different regions?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes.

MS COLERIDGE: And I just want to - tell me, where's the Marcus Garvie branch?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: It's the PAC branch in Beaufort West.

MS COLERIDGE: In Beaufort West.  Do you know a person by the name of Dawn?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Dawn?

MS COLERIDGE: Ja.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, I know the person by the name of Dawn.

MS COLERIDGE: Who is this person?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: As I've said Dawn is, well he's originally not from Beaufort West, I don't know from where he is, but as I've heard later he's with the military in Bloemfontein.

MS COLERIDGE: Why I'm asking you this is because Valtengua mentions that he was involved in this operation and then he writes to your branch, the PAC branch in Beaufort West, saying that Dawn, yourself and himself, that you were all three involved in this operation.  Can you just explain that to us, why would he do something like that?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: As I've said, I don't know the reason why Valtengua might have written that.  If he did personally write that, I don't see any reason why I should hide a deceased person, because I really knew for the fact that, for the sake of the truth, he was not involved and Dawn was not involved too.

MR LAX: Just give us the reference again to that letter.

MS COLERIDGE: Chairperson, the hand-written version is on page 126, and then it's translated at page 127 and the typed version is on page 125.
	And then he goes on further and he states that other people got arrested for this incident, do you know who the other people were?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: The people who were arrested, actually not arrested, questioned by the police concerning this incident was Chi Chi ...

MS COLERIDGE: What's Chi Chi's ...(intervention)

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Chi Chi Zamugzingesa.  It was Vos Bokwe, Sipho Simxu and Mandla Njokewle, but Mandla is deceased now.  He's originally from De Aar.  So they were the persons who were questioned by the police concerning this incident.

MS COLERIDGE: And the person that was questioned, this Mandla, is not the same person involved with you in the attack?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, it's not the same person, Mandla was going standard nine at that time, so he's from De Aar.

MS COLERIDGE: And then just a few other questions.  How many shots did you fire that night?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I really don't know, I really don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you give an estimation, how many rounds more-or-less, do you think, from your knowledge going through your training, did you shoot?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: I think it was about 45 to 48 rounds.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that you personally?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: That's right.

CHAIRPERSON: And Mandla, did he shoot about the same as you, or more, or what?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, Sir, it's not me personally shooting 45 rounds, it's the ...

CHAIRPERSON: The two of you?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes.  The rounds collected.

MR LAX: You had four magazines, is that right, between the two of you?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, we have four magazines.

MR LAX: And they're usually bound together.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes.

MR LAX: Did you change over magazines and carry on shooting?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, Sir.

MR LAX: So you only used one magazine?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Actually as I've said, Sir, when we planned this operation it had to be quick and fast so that we can get out of the spot, so the thing was to hit the driver so that the bus could go into the river.  So it was not the matter of staying and shooting and shooting, then changing the magazine, but it has to be something that is quick so that we can withdraw faster.

CHAIRPERSON: So most of your shots were concentrated to the front part of the bus?

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: Yes, Sir.

MS COLERIDGE: And then just one last question.  There's a statement by Janine Stander at page 139, she states that certain telephone calls were made to their branch, I assume it's probably in Durban, regarding the arrival of the Translux bus in Beaufort West.  Do you know of anyone that made telephone calls, maybe yourself or Mandla, or do you know anything regarding that?  It was just a day before this incident.

THEMBINKOSI HENGE: No, I never used a telephone and I don't know about the telephones that were made to Janine Stander.

MS COLERIDGE: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS COLERIDGE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Coleridge.  Do you have any re-examination, Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, are there any questions you'd like to ask?

MR SIBANYONI: I've got no questions, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?