Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-02-01

MR NODADA: Why must it be removed, why do you want it removed?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Because I was involved in the group that was planning this coup.

MR NODADA: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NODADA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Nodada.  Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: I've got no questions, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MALAN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions Chairperson, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Panel?  Have you got any re-examination?

MS DAMBUZA: None Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS DAMBUZA

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the case for your applicants?

MS DAMBUZA: That is the case for my applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Bongweni, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nodada, do you intend to call some witnesses?

MR NODADA: Yes, Mr Chairman.  That is correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do you need to make some logistical arrangements for them?

MR NODADA: Yes, precisely.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's see if we can.  Are you able to proceed with them?

MR NODADA: I'll start with the one next to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, let's set the thing up quickly.

MR NODADA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I'm calling Themba Pokwana, who is going to testify as one of the victims of this aborted coup on 22 November 1990.  May he be sworn in please.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly Mr Nodada.  Mr Pokwana, just indicate to us if your headset is working, whether you can hear the interpreters talking to you.

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, I can hear.

CHAIRPERSON: You must please stand to take the oath. Are your full names Themba Pokwana?

THEMBA POKWANA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may sit down.  Mr Nodada.

MR NODADA: Themba, during 1990, were you a member of the Transkei Defence Force?

THEMBA POKWANA: In 1990 I was a recruit in Ncise.

MR NODADA: A recruit in the Transkei Defence Force?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NODADA: And you were based at Ncise, where you were undergoing your initial training.

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, that is correct, Sir.

MR NODADA: Right.  Were you present at the camp where you were accommodated on the night of 21 November 1990?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, I was present.

MR NODADA: I want you to cast you memories back to the events of that evening and actually give a full account of what you experienced on that night.

THEMBA POKWANA: What happened is on the 21st until the 22nd of November 1990, we were sleeping as the recruits. At about 3 o'clock in the morning we heard some noise outside.  After hearing that noise out side some of us woke up because we were staying there in the camp, in the bungalows.

MR NODADA: Just slow down a bit.  Carry on.

THEMBA POKWANA: After that almost all of us woke up, we heard outside that there was noises of some gunshots.

MR NODADA: What noise - oh gunshots.  Was that the only noise that you heard outside, gunshots being fired?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, at first it was only the gunshots.

MR NODADA: And what was your immediate reaction when you heard those gunshots?

THEMBA POKWANA: As we were sleeping we woke up and we dressed up.

MR NODADA: Were you all sleeping in the same sort of a dormitory or how were you sleeping?  Were you in different rooms?

THEMBA POKWANA: Some of us were sleeping in a bungalow like a dormitory.

MR NODADA: And others?

THEMBA POKWANA: Others were in other houses, others were in the tents.

MR NODADA: But you were within the same premises, all of you.

THEMBA POKWANA: That is correct, Sir.

MR NODADA: Alright, carry on.

THEMBA POKWANA: After getting dressed I saw a man by the name of Kwele, he had blood on his face.

MR NODADA: Were the lights on inside when you woke up?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, because we had already woken up, all of us.

MR NODADA: So this man by the name of Kwele, was he entering the bungalow in which you were gathered after you had woken up?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, he was entering the bungalow that I was in.

MR NODADA: Yes, continue.

THEMBA POKWANA: He went in and he was bleeding heavily in his face.  When I stood up, next to me was Mr Peter, the deceased Mr Peter.  He was still alive at the time.  And when I was standing up I could hear that there were some movements and it was at that the time when the bomb was thrown inside the bungalow.  I then got injured that way.

MR NODADA: Were you armed as you were sleeping in the bungalow?

THEMBA POKWANA: No, we had nothing, we were not armed.

MR NODADA: After you had been injured, were you able to see what followed after the event?

THEMBA POKWANA: Because it was still dark, at about three or four when this bomb was thrown inside, the lights went off.  After that I didn't know what happened.

MR NODADA: Were you unconscious or was it just dark?

THEMBA POKWANA: After being injured I became unconscious.

MR NODADA: And when did you regain consciousness and where were you?

THEMBA POKWANA: I became conscious and I was still in the bungalow, at about 6 a.m. on the 22nd.

MR NODADA: And what part of your body was injured?

THEMBA POKWANA: In the head, face and in my body and both legs.

MR NODADA: What did you see when you regained consciousness at about 6 o'clock?

THEMBA POKWANA: When I regained consciousness I saw Mr Peter and he was sleeping where he was sleeping and the deceased Mr Gungu too, the people that I was staying with in the bungalow and they were dead.

MR NODADA: And were there any casualties that you saw in the same vicinity, other than the two dead persons?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, I also saw Nomganga, I saw the man behind me, Nombida and the others that were also in that bungalow and Mr Mogoduga who is not there now.  They were all injured.

MR NODADA: And what was happening at that time?

THEMBA POKWANA: At that time it was noise outside, I think it was when these people that were with Col Duli were arriving.  I don't know what was happening outside because I was inside, it was just noises outside.

MR NODADA: What sort of noise was that, was it human noise or noise of fired guns or bombing, what noise was it? - as you could make out.

THEMBA POKWANA: It was gunshots and people's voices, they were calling others.

MR NODADA: Yes, and then after that what happened?

THEMBA POKWANA: After that at about seven or after 7 o'clock, soldiers came that were trying to help us, those that were working in that recruit camp.

MR NODADA: Did they take you to hospital?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, they took us out outside and when we were outside we were supposed to be taken by an ambulance and then we realised that the group that was with Col Duli had arrived and then these people that were going to help us, they ran away trying to save their lives and they left us outside.

MR NODADA: And these people that you say were coming with Craig Duli, that you saw when you got outside, what were they doing? - as far as you could make out.

THEMBA POKWANA: As I was already injured and I was outside, I could only see people that were going to the other camp known as 1TBM.

MR NODADA: Were you sitting - I mean, how did the soldiers who were helping, leave you outside, did they just leave you on the ground or where were you left?

THEMBA POKWANA: They took us out of the bungalow, we were wrapped in blankets, so they left us like that.  The reason why they decided to leave us is because another bomb was thrown when they were busy taking us outside, so they ran away.

MR NODADA: Was it thrown at the place where you were left, or inside some building?

THEMBA POKWANA: This bomb was thrown in the road, because there was a road in-between, so they put us on the side where the tents were.

MR NODADA: So you were not affected by that bomb?

THEMBA POKWANA: Yes, I was not affected.

JUDGE MILLER: Sorry, Mr Nodada.
	Was it a bomb or a handgrenade, or don't you know?

THEMBA POKWANA: It was a mortar bomb, not a handgrenade.