Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-28

MR BLACK: Right.  So where it stands there I just want to correct, where it stands on the first top paragraph 6 of page 66 where it says that you received a period of 18 years imprisonment for the convictions of murder, attempted murder and unlawful possession of firearms, that that is not entirely correct?  The factual situation is, and it appears from the Judgment, that you received conviction for murder, attempted murder and two attempted robberies, is that correct?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Right.  Now let's page back to page 62.  If we can just as a background, as your personal background and I don't think there's anything controversial in here.  When we get to the actual events you can tell the Committee in your own words what took place, but is it correct that you were born at Breyten on the 6th of September 1969 and you passed standard six at school?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You state here further that your younger brother, James Mbokane was an active member of the ANC in the Secunda/Ermelo area and during 1985 and at Secunda he was killed by members of the Inkatha together with the Black Cats gang members?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You say that you've always supported the African National Congress and in 1986 you became an active member of the self-defence units at Secunda?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: We've already heard evidence as to the fact that various SDU's as they were called, were established at communities throughout the country as a policy of the African National Congress and one of their principal purposes was to defend the homes and members of communities being attacked by then perceived to be government agents and person trying to oppress the African Congress, is that correct, more or less?

L P MBOKANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BLACK: Page over to page 63 please.  On page 63, Sub-Section (c) you say that you are seeking amnesty in respect of the events which occurred at the Giwi Breyten Construction Compound at Evander on or about the 6th of July 1992, okay?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Then you proceed at the bottom there at paragraph 3, you say you'll give outline of the events which led up to and which took place at the Evander Compound, see that?

L P MBOKANE: Yes.

MR BLACK: On page 64 you then proceed to give an outline of the events which led up to the actual confrontation which took place at the Giwi Compound.  Now in your own words Mr Mbokane, could you please tell the Committee, from the beginning, how it came about that you went to the Giwi Compound.

L P MBOKANE: We had received a message that Giwi there were training members of the IFP as well as the Black Chain.  The were being trained by the owners of the compound and there were guns at the compound.  I passed the message on to my commander, that is Mzwandile Gushu.  He is the one that took the decision that we should go there with the aim of retrieving or confiscating the guns, but not with the intention of killing.

MR BLACK: Sorry Mr Mbokane, when you say you received a message, did you make any efforts to verify this?  Did you go and find out the story that you, the message that you heard, was it true or not, did you try and make any attempt to find out?

L P MBOKANE: Yes, I did try, I made three attempts.

MR BLACK: Was it you alone or what?

L P MBOKANE: There were two of us.

MR BLACK: Who, who?  Who was it?

L P MBOKANE: It was myself and Brian Mlungisi Gombela.

MR BLACK: And what did you find out?

L P MBOKANE: When we got there we realised that there were two security guards who were armed.  Even though we were not able to see inside at that stage because there was a prefabricated fence that blocked out view.  We went back to Gushu to notify him that we saw some people who had guns but we were not able to gain entry and see as to whether there was training going on inside.
	The most important fact for us was to retrieve the guns because we had been told that when they come back they were going to attack the Mandela Squatter Camp, and because we did not have any arms we decided to go and get those arms that they were using to train them.

MR BLACK: When you say: "they were going to attack the Mandela Squatter Camp", who is: "they"?  Who are you referring to when you say: "they were going to attack the Mandela Squatter Camp"?

L P MBOKANE: They were the members of the IFP as well as the Black Chains.

MR BLACK: Now you reported your findings to Mzwandile Gushu, is that correct?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: I think it's now common cause that Mr Gushu then was the MK commander?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that common cause?

MR BLACK: I don't think - he's given his evidence ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but that's not common cause Mr Black, unless there's an agreement here.

MR BLACK: Just simply, it wasn't challenged that he was an MK commander but let's put it this way
	Who was your commander at that time?

L P MBOKANE: It was Mzwandile Gushu.

MR BLACK: Right.  Now when you reported to him what happened next?

L P MBOKANE: He told us that we should make an attempt to get those arms.

MR BLACK: Right.  Just carry on, what took place then?

L P MBOKANE: When we got there we disarmed the two security guards and we made them lie down on the ground.  Gushu had a .38 special ...[intervention]

MR BLACK: Before you go further, when you say: "we", who is: "we"?

L P MBOKANE: Mlungisi Gombela, myself as well as Mzwandile Gushu.

MR BLACK: Were you armed?

L P MBOKANE: Yes, that is myself and Mzwandile Gushu.

MR BLACK: What were you armed with?

L P MBOKANE: I had a .38 revolver, Gushu had an AK47 with.

MR BLACK: When you arrived at the compound, what took place there?

L P MBOKANE: When we got there there were two black security guys.  We made them lie on the ground and Gushu directed me to tie their hands whilst they were lying on the ground.
	After that we saw a car approaching and which was driven by one white security guy and there was another one on the passenger seat.  Gushu went to open the gate and we also wanted to get hold of them.  I think they suspected that there was something amiss and they reversed the car without entering into the yard and they started shooting towards our direction.  That is when Mzwandile Gushu left the gate and went inside the yard and took his AK47 and he fired back.  
	He was trying to clear the way for us to be able to run out.  One got injured and the other one got killed.  As we were trying to flee the area or the place, the other one shot Mzwandile Gushu on the leg and Mzwandile Gushu fell and he also ran away.

MR BLACK: After this incident, you go on to say that about a week afterwards members of the Murder and Robbery Squad came to your house in Secunda and you were arrested and taken to the Middelburg Police Station, is that so?

L P MBOKANE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: You go on further to say that you were tortured, could you just tell the Committee briefly about the torturing?

L P MBOKANE: When we got to the Middelburg Police Station the members of the Murder and Robbery Squad started assaulting us and they also took us to another place called Loskop Dam.  It was myself and Mzwandile.  They left us there.
	There were poles as wide as this table as I'm pointing and they tied me left foot to the pole as well as the hand.  They did the same with the right hand and the right foot and they started assaulting us on the ribs and they forced us to make statements.
	We were also electrocuted.  Our private parts were also subjected to some electrocution.  That is what happened at Loskop Dam.

MR BLACK: Okay.  Now you say that you and Mr Gombela stood trial separately from your MK Commander, Gushu and you stood trial at the Middelburg High Court and you were sentenced to a period of 18 years imprisonment.

L P MBOKANE: Yes, that is correct.