Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-26

CHAIRPERSON: Was that the same day?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was on the same day because we came on the same day at the police station to report.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  What happened with regard to that person?  First, whose house was it, and what happened?

WITNESS:   It was David Thamani's house.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes - well, put it this way.  Perhaps just first tell us the circumstances under which his house was attacked.  Who attacked it, how was it attacked, anything you know about it?

WITNESS:   When he found me at the police station to report about his house which has been attacked he was explaining as if people attacked his house being accompanied by the police.  He explained that there was a Hippo which lit his house, and his house was stoned.  It was hit my petrol bombs, and some property in his house, or furniture, was destroyed.  I believe he is here to give evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... who the people were who attacked his house?  Not their names, but what political party were they supporting?

WITNESS:   He knows.

CHAIRPERSON: Unfortunately he hasn't made a statement to this Commission and we can't let him give evidence, and we will take this matter up with him after you have given your evidence.  Did he tell you who had attacked the house, supporters of which organisation or group?

WITNESS:   He said they were supporters of the African National Congress. Now, you said that you reported this to the police.  Was that in Ficksburg itself?   ---   Yes, that's Ficksburg Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they do?  Did they investigate it, did they take action, did they arrest anybody?

WITNESS:   No, there were no people who were arrested because in my case they said they don't have enough evidence.  Then they just stopped the case.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the names of any of the people who attacked you and damaged your vehicle?

WITNESS:   Some of them I knew later when I heard people saying their names.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the nature of the conflict in Ficksburg at the time?  Were there two or more groups that were in conflict with each other?  Certainly there was the ANC there.  The people who they were - as you have said they attacked your vehicle, they attacked Mr Thamani's house.  Are you supporters of a particular party?  What was it, do you believe, that made them attack you and Mr Thamani's house?

WITNESS:   At that time I didn't belong to any political party, but I was a member of the Civic Organisation within our township.  Maybe the cause was within SANCO and the ANC because there was an internal conflict within SANCO and ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  So there was - SANCO is the South African National Civic Organisation, is that right?

WITNESS:   You are right, Sir, it's the organisation for residents.

CHAIRPERSON: And you're saying that there was conflict between the ANC and SANCO.

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a conflict.

CHAIRPERSON: And what did that have to do with, what was it about?  Was it about leadership, or was it about ideology, or what?

WITNESS:   There were two civic organisations, which is Mukaleng Civic Association and SANCO.  Then there was a need to form one civic organisation, which is SANCO, so that we should not have two civic organisations.  I think that was the cause of the conflict.

CHAIRPERSON: And did it go on for some time?  Were many more houses or people - houses damaged or people injured, as far as you can recall?

WITNESS:   There were people's houses which were destroyed.  The other house which was destroyed was Mr Sitini's house, and Mr Esack Ntuzu's house, and then Mr Soforani Ntuzu's house, and again it is Mr Malubesi's house, where SANCO used to hold their meetings.  There was a car which was attempted to be burned which was owned by Mr Dumeng.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... were associated with SANCO?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were people who identified themselves with SANCO.

CHAIRPERSON: And was that conflict resolved, or is there still conflict between the ANC and the Civic in that place?

WITNESS:   After houses were burned and cars were stoned if I am not wrong after some days there was a Peace Committee set up, which was - inside that committee were two ministers of religion, which met in Ficksburg Hotel.  That is where they were trying to bring a resolution to this conflict.  That is where we were able to know the cause of the conflict, because a certain ANC member did confess that he was revenging against the attack.

CHAIRPERSON: So does it - from what you understand about that conflict does it appear that the conflict was caused or made worse by the fact that one ANC member had been attacked by somebody in SANCO and was then intent on carrying out some revenge attacks?  Does it seem to have been a personal thing?

WITNESS:   It was encompassing the whole township where we were staying.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... able to resolve the conflict?

WITNESS:   I don't think they were able to bring a resolution to the conflict because the conflict continued after that meeting.

CHAIRPERSON: And when was it resolved?

WITNESS:   It has never been resolved.  Even now we see some splinters of conflict. Even if they are not the same as before, but we see some splinters of conflict within our township.  I knew the person who was the cause of the conflict.  I was not satisfied.  Even when he was greeting me I would not greet back.  I didn't even forgive him because of what he has done to me, and that the case should be handled by the police successfully.

CHAIRPERSON: Does SANCO still exist as a civic organisation in Ficksburg?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is still there in our township.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Semakale, is there anything more that you want to tell us about this incident and about the ensuing conflict?

WITNESS:   The conflict continued.  Even on my side as I was apolitical I was a church member or a religious person.  It brought hatred against the minister who was there at that time.  The minister didn't comfort me, then I had to hate him.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything else you would like to tell us?

WITNESS:   There is nothing more I can say, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... vehicle?

WITNESS:   I was able to repair the car, but with problems because it was not a big car, it was a four plus one car.  Under those circumstances I was taking my children to school, I was unemployed, I was not able to make funds.  Even though my wife was working we had some credits which we had.