Amnesty Hearings — Kroonstad — UNKNOWN

<UNKNOWN>: : Is it true that you were once a delegate ofthe ANC Youth League when you went to Bloemfontein, that is theWomen's League I am sorry.

ANSWER: We went to Durban, we went to Durban to launchthe ANC Women's League.

<UNKNOWN>: : When I talked to you before you came here wetalked about what you did regarding bringing peace here at Maokeng,do you still remember that?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : Can you tell this Committee about your efforts?

ANSWER: I went with Comrade Dennis and Stoffel Mofokengand the other members from the MDCC we went to court and Diwitihad a case on 11 September in 1990.   We went to speak to himthere and tell him that they must come to Mr Gozongo's place thereis a meeting at 6 so that we could hold discussions about peacebetween us and SAYCO(?).   After doing that in the afternoon oneof the comrades came to me and told me that I mustn't allow Diwitithem to go to Mr Gozongo's place because he would be attacked.  I didn't tell him because I knew the leaders would be presentthat won't happen.   Whilst we were still there at Reverend Gozongo'splace, Comrade Dennis and Stoffel wanted to address the meetingand they realised that the youth was not enough there and afterrealising this they asked where the youth were because they wantto know what the fight was all about.

<UNKNOWN>: : You may continue.

ANSWER: One of our comrades stood up and said the youthis at Pumelung(?) at the club, they said they won't come therethey don't want to make peace between them and Diwiti.   Thencomrade Dennis told them that it is very important people, yousay Diwiti want to fight the youth, there's nothing like that,let the youth come here and hear what the problem is and thensome people went and brought the youth back.   When the youtharrived they entered inside and when they were inside comradeStoffel stood up and explained and Dennis also stood up and triedto explain.   While he was doing that one of the leaders wentoutside and they started quarrelling and said they don't wantto speak to Diwiti because he's a criminal and then one of ourcomrades who is dead now, he was called comrade Matabela he saiddon't say this person is a criminal and that's where the attacksstarted.   Comrade Dennis took us in his car, I was together withDiwiti and Stoffel Mofokeng, I can't remember the other one whowas with us, we went with him in his car and one other child whocomes after me at home went away.   Before we could alight thecar there were four kombis and they attacked, they tried to attackus and we went away where we went to the police station in town.

<UNKNOWN>: : I think ma'am you were still here when comradeDennis Bloem testified do you still remember that he talked aboutwhat you are talking about now?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : I want you now to tell me about the letterthat came to your place, do you still remember about that?

ANSWER: Yes, we heard a car hooting outside while wewere still at home and Mr Matile's wife came out and they saidthey were looking for Diwiti.   It was comrade Dennis and Blackieand Ronald, that is the one that killed Diwiti.   When they gotthere Diwiti was not there and Matile went outside Matile a letterand Dennis then shook his head at that time and then he went insideand Matile brought the letter into the house.   Diwiti was notat home that night and Monday we met him at court.   The casewent on and then it finished.

<UNKNOWN>: : You say Ronald Petrus produced a letter, didyou see that letter?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : Can you read?

ANSWER: Yes I read that letter, it was written in English.

<UNKNOWN>: : What did that letter say?

ANSWER: It was a letter pleading for peace between thepeople who were fighting and Diwiti had to answer before, I don'tremember whether it was before four or five days and that letterhad been signed by M K (indistinct).

<UNKNOWN>: : What was the date at that time?

ANSWER: It was on 23 February.

<UNKNOWN>: : Which year?

ANSWER: 1992.

<UNKNOWN>: : What happened to that letter?

ANSWER: We kept that letter and then Amay(?) informedDiwiti about that peace letter and he was satisfied.   In theevening after we went to court one of the informers came and toldus that he was very threatened, there are people from Johannesburgthey are about to kill Diwiti and they know he is going to courtthis week, that is why they are going to wait for Diwiti.   Thatperson asked me whether Diwiti is there and I said yes he is herebut the person told me please tell Diwiti he musn't go to courtand then I went to Diwiti and told him that there are people fromJohannesburg who came here to kill you.   He said no I have justreceived a peace letter, where is that letter.   The letter wasstill with me and I showed it to him, he read it and he said peoplewant us to defy, this letter had been signed by Amay and he'san M K member, it means those are people which are coming forpeace which I already wanted in Maokeng.   Again he said thisletter had been brought by Dennis and you know Dennis had workedfor peace all along.  Then what I can tell you is that my sister,you don't understand, maybe the message has reached the regionaloffice because...

<UNKNOWN>: : When Diwiti was speaking to you did he seemlike someone who would work for peace?

ANSWER: Yes he was very free(?) at that time.

<UNKNOWN>: : You said to me on the day Diwiti was killedyou were together with him at court in town?

ANSWER: Yes I was there.

<UNKNOWN>: : Were you still listening when they were talkingabout Diwiti's killing?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : How do you feel about this?

ANSWER: I would like this Committee to bring justicebecause in the first place the person who killed Diwiti doesn'treside here and he doesn't know Diwiti and I can't say anythingmore regarding his killing.

<UNKNOWN>: : One objective of this Committee is to makepeople reconcile, can you hear that?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : How do you regard this reconciliation regardingthe plea which has been made by these killers?

ANSWER: I want people to reconcile but I wanted to sayto the Committee that justice must prevail because the personwho killed Diwiti has done nothing to me and I don't know himand therefore I would justice to prevail.

<UNKNOWN>: : In other words you support the objective ofreconciliation?

ANSWER: Yes I do.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS
QUESTIONS BY MR MATSEPE

<UNKNOWN>: : Mamorena we all know about all the evidencethat came to the fore here that there are people from the Kroonstadcommunity who died and not only Diwiti, people from both sidesdied.   Do you agree with me on that?

ANSWER: Yes I do agree with you.

<UNKNOWN>: : Do you agree that it was during violent timeshere in Kroonstad?

ANSWER: Yes I do agree.

<UNKNOWN>: : I mean from both sides?

ANSWER: Yes I do agree with you.

<UNKNOWN>: : You have explained here that you were a memberof the ANC Women's League in 1990?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : You were elected, you even went to the congresswhere the ANC Women's League was being launched in 1990 in Durban?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : As being elected by the regional members?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: : After these killings happened here in the township,let me say in 1992, or let me put my question this way so thatyou can understand it.   After Diwiti's (indistinct) Dennis mattercame to the fore and Diwiti left the Youth League, did you stillremain an ANC Women's League member?

ANSWER: I don't know how to answer your question becausethere were no meetings that I attended at that time because youknow we were being attacked at that time, we couldn't move freely.

<UNKNOWN>: : Did you because of those attacks not relateyourself to the activities of the ANC in Kroonstad and at theregional level also?