Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-26

MR NGUBANE: Mr Chairman, that is the case for the applicant.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: No further evidence Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you in a position to make submissions Mr Ngubane?

MR NGUBANE: Yes Mr Chairman, briefly Mr Chairman.  The decision whether to grant amnesty or not, will at the end of the day be decided on the facts as presented to the Committee, but I would respectfully submit that the applicant was a very honest man.  He was very forthright, unlike the litany of application that have been before the Committee.
	He is very impressive.

CHAIRPERSON: As to who the perpetrators were, is that so or was he about to be arrested?  Did that prompt him to come, or was it just on his own volition that he has come and made this known and exposed publicly that he was a perpetrator, on his own volition?

MR NGUBANE: It was his own volition, and he has not tried to hide the co-perpetrators, that is the aspect which I ask the members of the Committee to take into account.
	Unless there are certain issues which I am required to address, I do not intend repeating what is before the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: You submit that he has made a full disclosure of all relevant facts, and that the killing of Mr Zulu was an act in furtherance of a political objective, arising out of the conflicts of the past?

MR NGUBANE: That is correct, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: I don't have any argument prepared, except maybe to put it on record that the victims have requested me to inform the Committee members that the deceased was a breadwinner and due to his death, they lost their house and also they don't have a house to stay in right now.  I reassured them that they will be referred to the R&R Committee.
	I thought I should put it on record.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have details of the next of kin of the victims, who would qualify for reparation in terms of the Statute?

MS THABETE: Yes, I do Mr Chairman.  I do not know whether you would like me to ...

CHAIRPERSON: I think so because if we could get that, because in the event of amnesty being granted, there will be a reference made to the Reparations Committee of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, for consideration for the payment of reparation to the next of kin.
	It is our duty in so far as possible, to refer the names of victims and their next of kin, when we hear them in these proceedings, to the Reparations Committee to facilitate them in their work.

MS THABETE: Would you like me to read the names?

CHAIRPERSON: Are there many there?

MS THABETE: No Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think so, if I can just get a note of them.

MS THABETE: It is Mr and Mrs Zulu, JM.

CHAIRPERSON: An address?

MS THABETE: I understand right now they have been given a home.

CHAIRPERSON: No, only if you've got a fixed, firm address that we need it.

MR LAX: Just before we finish with you, you have given us the deceased's parents.  Was he married, he had children?  Did he have children?
	Perhaps those matters could be addressed later administratively.

CHAIRPERSON: If you could, Ms Thabete, if you could - in my view I think that we need to refer to the Reparations Committee, would be the next of kin.  By that we mean the parents if they are alive, the spouse or spouses if she or they are alive, and the children.
	We don't go to cousins and second aunties and grannies.  It is just in the first degree and if there were any other persons who were dependent  on him, it is not the whole, every relative that there is.

MS THABETE: Can I furnish you with the whole list after I have spoken?

CHAIRPERSON: You can furnish me with a list and also as far as possible, with contact addresses or details, how they could be contacted.  Thank you.

MS THABETE: I will do so Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: That then brings us to the end of this hearing.
	I would like to thank both Mr Ngubane and Ms Thabete for their assistance that they have given us, not only in this hearing, but the previous one.
	It is also the end of the roll for this week in fact, I believe Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: That is so Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We will then be continuing on Monday?

MS THABETE: Certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: Should we make it for half past nine?

MS THABETE: Half past nine is fine.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now, because we have come to the end of today's proceedings, be adjourning.  There hasn't been a matter set down for tomorrow.  I believe the reason for that was that initially it was expected that that would be registration day and people would require that day for registration for voting, but in fact, as we all know that had recently been changed, and it wasn't possible to at the short notice, to bring other matters forward.
	We will now be adjourning for the continuation of these hearings, there is a number of hearings set down for next week.  We will adjourn until next Monday, at the same venue and we will hope to start on that day at half past nine in the morning.  Thank you.

MS THABETE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS