Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-23

WOUTER J BASSON: If you give me a minute I'll look for it.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it Nick who took over from you?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, there's an entry in my diary which is not part of this exhibit, it refers to Nick and Theo who as from the 25th of August became more involved in the co-ordination and so on.

CHAIRPERSON: ... have a handover period or did you work together with Nick and Theo?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I remember specifically that with the presentation or with the training with regard to the Early Learning Centre, the mechanism, they were involved.  I don't know if they had any knowledge about this specific project, about the application thereof, but they were present.  I think it so, yes.

MR LAX: Can I just clarify something if you'll allow me. 	This Annexure M that you've given us, Mr Kahanovitz, is that an extract from the one that was attached by Harms document?

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'm note sure what exactly was placed before the Harms Commission.  This is an extract that I made out of the full diary for purposes of the pages which I intended to refer these particular witnesses to.  There is a much bigger document containing the whole diary.

MR LAX: Yes no, I'm just aware that you have a much bigger document there that you ...(intervention)

MR P DU PLESSIS: Yes I think we ...(indistinct - no microphone) but I think it's the complete document we have in our possession.

MR LAX: It just may be useful for our purposes to see the whole thing in its complete context at some point.

MR P DU PLESSIS: ;   It's not a problem, I'll liaise with Ms Coleridge about it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kahanovitz.  I don't know if your last question was answered.
	Did you have a date when you were relieved of your duties as Co-ordinator in Region 6?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, Chairperson, I wasn't entirely pulled away from Mr Burger and his people, my workload had been made smaller.  I was still involved with Region 6, but the administrative part was taken away from me so that I could pay more attention to Region 2 at that stage.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So were you really - you were given additional manpower to assist you in your co-ordinating function?

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And do you have any idea why the person who assisted you as Co-ordinator hasn't applied for amnesty?

WOUTER J BASSON: No, Chairperson.  I cannot answer on his behalf about his knowledge of projects, no I can't answer.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now you mentioned that you had - in your evidence-in-chief, that you'd been given a date on which you might appear before the National Board on Indemnity and you mentioned the date of 9 December 1993.  Did you in fact ever go and appear?

WOUTER J BASSON: No, never, Chairperson.

MR P DU PLESSIS: ;   Mr Chairman, perhaps I can come in here.  Mr Basson was represented by a legal representative and if I'm correct, it would have been ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The question was whether he appeared, Mr Basson appeared before the Indemnity Board in December 1993 and he says no, and then Mr du Plessis was saying there was legal representation.

MR WESSELS: I appeared there.  I can't remember on behalf of whom, but I assume it must have been Mr Basson as well.  There were a number of applicants that I represented ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: And the matter was argued and submissions made etcetera?

MR WESSELS: ...(indistinct)

MR P DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, perhaps on that point, I don't think we are going to finalise cross-examination today and if we are going to have a look at the full diary, I think we can just as well, perhaps at this point adjourn the proceedings.  With all respect.  Unless Mr Kahanovitz and Mr Hockey - well and obviously the Panel has to question him as well.

MR KAHANOVITZ: If there's some prospect of any member of the Committee, for instance, wanting to possibly raise new issues arising out of the diary, I would agree there doesn't seem to be much purpose in me trying to rush things to finish off my cross-examination.  In other words if the witness has to come back next time for whatever reason, I would be more than happy to call it a day.

CHAIRPERSON: You've still got other matters to cross-examine on, do you not?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Principally I to deal with his amnesty application.

CHAIRPERSON: With the incidents, the pre-studies and all that sort of stuff?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, and the contents of the documents.

CHAIRPERSON: So there's no prospect that we would finish today with Mr Hockey standing in also today for Mr Williams ... Ms Coleridge in ten minutes, so I'm sure it will be over optimistic to expect to get finished.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'd just like to ask one more question then if I might, on his evidence-in-chief and then maybe we could call it a day.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and what we will do is between now and when we resume we will have the transcript typed and that will be relayed to the legal representatives as soon as it's available, so when Mr Basson comes back in two or whatever it is, month's time, he will have the benefit of being able to read what he's said in evidence up to now.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You mentioned in relation to the Evans project that you were given a thick file, but you went on to say ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: He said a 9 inch pile of computer print-outs, I think.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes.  You went on to say that nowhere in that were the details of where Mr Evans lived or worked.  Do you remember that evidence?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I'm not sure what the content was, surely there would have been details about his workings.  I know that he worked for a newspaper.  It's just not possible for me to remember all the detail that was in there.

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, I just wanted to put to you that the evidence which you gave in that regard didn't really make sense because as you now have conceded, all you needed to do was pick up the Weekly Mail to know that Mr Evans worked for the Weekly Mail, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: That is correct, I just don't know from which stage he worked for the newspaper.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I've been informed that the dates for the further hearing have been agreed with all concerned.

MS COLERIDGE: The 26th, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: The 26th of September.

MS COLERIDGE: To the 29th.  The 26th to the 29th of September and then the 2nd to the 6th of October.

CHAIRPERSON: Those are two consecutive weeks, yes.

MS COLERIDGE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: The reason why it starts on the 26th, which is a Tuesday, is because Monday the 25th is a public holiday.  So it's for the nine working days, week days, from the 26th of September 2000 through to and including the 6th of October 2000.  Unfortunately we can't get dates sooner than that because I was told it's just impossible to get all of the people concerned together where they all are available.  I know for a fact that us three members on the Panel are going through an extremely busy period of travel and doing hearings, so it's not only the legal representatives who aren't available at certain times, but also us ourselves.  But I'm pleased that we have got these dates arranged, although it is some time away.
	As I say, Mr Basson, you'll get your evidence and I'm sure Mr du Plessis will let you see it before you continue to be cross-examined.

WOUTER J BASSON: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it going to be at this venue as well, Ms Coleridge?

MS COLERIDGE: That is correct, Chairperson.