Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-12

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I think it is traditionally accepted in all defence forces all over the world that the position of the Surgeon-General should be that of a medical doctor.  It should certainly be a person who has the necessary military background to understand military command and control; the military disciplinary procedures and the requirements of the combat forces.
 I want to say something else.  What is extremely important is that such a person should be able to maintain the balance between what is known as military discipline and military command and control as against professional control over all the professions that resort under that of the office of the Surgeon-General.  
 In fact that was the reason that I accepted the appointment into the permanent force, because in 1978 the South African Medical Service became an independent arm of service of the South African Defence Force.  Before that it was a core medical service of respectively the Army, the Air Force and the Navy.  This had great implications.  It meant that the medical personnel were actually under command of combat service personnel, a situation which both General Nieuwoudt and myself as his consultant, was not acceptable.  We therefore motivated that the Medical Service should be made a separate arm of service with its own command and control; its own uniform; its own identity; its own code of conduct and its own budget so that, that delicate situation of command by Army or Air Force or Navy officers over medical personnel could be dealt with in such a way that the Surgeon-General had direct command over professionals under his control.  And that if any of such professionals were deployed in support of either the Army or the Air Force and the Navy the Surgeon-General would determine what command affiliation would then exist. And the command affiliations that we had to work out together which was difficult to understand, with all frankness by my colleagues in the Army and the Air Force and the Navy, had to be established.  That is the reason I joined the permanent force to help the Surgeon-General with establishing this new arm of service, so that we could protect and guide our professions.
 And just to emphasise the point, the Medical Service of the South African National Defence Force at that time had no less than 9000 full-time members of which 60% were in uniform and which included 27 statutory professions, meaning professions registered with a statutory body.  Statutory professions that had definite guidelines as to the scope of practice and what those professions could or could not do.  At the same time they had to operate within a military environment with military command and control and with military discipline being applied to them.  They had to go through a rank structure and had to be seen within the hierarchy of the Defence Force according to the rank on their shoulder and not necessarily the intellectual or the professional capabilities that they had.  
 That was the purpose of the Surgeon-General to look after that very important delicate issue.

MR VALLY: Just briefly when was SAMS established, the South African Medical Services?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: To the best of my recollection the final decision was taken in 1978, I think the 13th of - I beg your pardon Mr Chairman it may have been 1979, but it was during '78, '79 in July of one of those two years.

MR VALLY: So within the ...(intervention)

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: If I may Chairman, in the document that we are referring to the date is the 31st of October 1979, backdated to the 1st of July by Minister P W Botha.

MR VALLY: So professionals within the South African Medical Services would be bound, for example, by principles of the Hippocratic Oath or I believe it's the Geneva Protocol, Declaration, I beg your pardon?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Absolutely.  The Hippocratic Oath as you say under peace time conditions, and certainly the Geneva Convention requirements in a declared war situation.

MR VALLY: Yes no I am talking about the Geneva Protocol ...(intervention)

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Geneva Protocol is quite right, I beg your pardon Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: Alright.  If necessary we will go to those two documents.
 So such ethical principles which govern the conduct of the activities of these statutory professions, as you refer to them and we will try and stick to the professions involved in the hearing, would they be required, I am talking about doctors, I am talking about scientists, I am talking about veterinarians, would they be required to conduct themselves professionally in the same manner in uniform as they would if they were civilians?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Absolutely.  In fact any digression from this type of practice would be dealt with in two ways.  It would be dealt with within the military environment by a military inquiry or investigation, and if necessary even a court martial.  But at the same time the conduct under question would be referred to the professional body to which that professional or with which that professional is registered.

MR VALLY: Let's go on to the Chemical and Biological Warfare programme.  When did you first have knowledge of the programme?  You mentioned that when you were a consultant to the previous Surgeon-General that you were involved in the project in terms of the broad framework of the project.  Can you tell us what was your knowledge of the Chemical and Biological Warfare programme before you became Surgeon-General and thereafter after you became Surgeon-General?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Certainly Mr Vally.  Mr Chairman in the period of the middle of the seventies towards the approval of the fourth arm, the Medical Service, it was discussed with me by the Surgeon-General at the time that one of the things that we would have to pay a lot of attention to was to develop this newly established fourth arm to be able to provide a comprehensive medical or health support to all aspects that were found within a defence force.  This addressed the whole question of training in great detail; the question of medical logistics in great detail; the question of base-orientated medical service throughout the country which could be utilised by all security services and by all other State departments for that matter and it also had to address operational support to combat services within the country and outside the country.

MR VALLY: No maybe I should rephrase the question or repeat the question.  I am referring specifically to the Chemical ...(intervention)

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I am coming to that Mr Vally ...(intervention)

MR VALLY: ...Biological Warfare programme.