Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Yes certainly, certainly.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: : Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Tibedi are you prepared to take the oathin this matter?

MR TIBEDI: Yes I'm prepared to.
GERRY DIMOTANA TIBEDI (ss)
EXAMINATION BY MR MPSHE

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Tibedi what is your occupation at this moment?
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ANSWER: I am the Speaker of the North-West ProvincialLegislature.

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Tibedi you were present in this hearingsince this morning when evidence was given by Mr Van Vuuren aswell as Hechter about yourself?

ANSWER: Yes I was present.

<UNKNOWN>: You heard all that was being said.

ANSWER: I did.

<UNKNOWN>: I would like you to testify to this Committeeas to what happened to you at the time when the bomb was beingthrown into your house?

ANSWER: I must say that firstly this is the most emotionalday of my life, having to sit inside this room together with peoplewho, nine years ago, threw a bomb into my own house.  I must saythat after listening to what they have to say, indicating thatthey have actually identified me as a trouble-maker, I find itvery difficult to accept that their final decision was to wipeme out, with my entire family.  For the mere fact that it tookme exactly nine years, nine solid years to know who did that,is a source of relief, at least I know who did it.   I must putit on record that the event took place on 22 October in 1987.  It happened at about 2 o'clock in the morning.   Prior to thatincident on 7 October of the same year, in 1987, there were peoplewho came to my place driving in a cream white E20, as I was informedby my wife who were looking for me at the time.   My wife becameso suspicious that even if they were policemen, their missionwas not to arrest, but they had a mission which was known to themselvesonly because they claimed to be comrades, they claimed to havebeen activists, they claimed to know me, but what surprised mywife the most
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was to say, was when they asked her what kind of car am I driving.  I must say  that since that day when I arrived home, I leftimmediately and I was not to sleep at home again.   I only returnedback home on 19 October after a long drive, I was tired, I hadto sleep at home.   Little did I...

CHAIRPERSON: On the 19th?

ANSWER: On the 19th, that's when I returned home fromthe 7th.   When I slept at home on the 19th, nothing happened. When I woke up on the 20th I just thought, I told myself thatI must just as well continue to sleep in my house.  Little didI realise that two days thereafter, a bomb was going to be throwninto my house.   I must say that after that happened I was bothangry and relieved, because at least I knew they were lookingfor me, they couldn't get me, the attempted on my life and theyfailed.   That was the part that made me relieved, but the partthat they wanted to kill me with my entire family, and I havelost all my belongings, made me very angry.   The propaganda theyused, you must realise that that explosion was so powerful that10 houses in my surroundings were damaged and that created problemsbecause some members of the, of my, some members in my neighbourhoodwere convinced by the police propaganda, were convinced by thepolice propaganda that I had that bomb in my house and that that...bythe police propaganda thereafter that that bomb, I had it in myhouse, it exploded prematurely.   It took me some time to convincemembers within my community that this was actually done by noneother than the police because members of my community at the timeknew that I was arrested several times and apparently my onlyenemy at the time, I would assume, was the security
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police.   I just want to clarify the point that the house whereI was sleeping, was my hideout.   That is not true.   That ismy house.   On the day of the incident I was sleeping in thathouse with my wife, my daughter and my sister.   My daughter wasseven at the time, seven years at that time.   She is 16 yearsnow.   My sister was 19, she was actually preparing for her Std10 examinations.   The trauma my family underwent after that incidentis very difficult to relate to this House.   My wife, my sisterhad continuous nightmares.   We had to consult with clinical psychologiststo try and help, and what hurt me most was that I did not knowwho did it.   I was hoping that I was going to testify last weekTuesday, it was going to be a coincidence because that was goingto be on the day of the 9th anniversary of that incident.  
MR MPSHE (contd)

<UNKNOWN>: Did any member of your family, including yourself,suffer any physical injuries as a result of the bombing?

ANSWER: We got physical injuries but I wouldn't say theywere major, they were minor, we were affected by the shrapnel.

<UNKNOWN>: You testified that you lost your belongings,do you perhaps know what you lost and to what extent?

ANSWER: I lost all my furniture in the house, everythingthat you can imagine of that is kept in the house, was damaged.  An electric stove was reduced to the size of this bottle.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it about the house itself?

ANSWER: The house was damaged Mr Chairperson, the onlyadvantage that one had as they have testified, is because it
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was a shack house, it was a tin house, therefore the bomb wastoo powerful for it, instead of it falling inside, it fell apart.
MR MPSHE (contd)

<UNKNOWN>: I know it is quite a long time ago, but areyou in a position to tell this Committee exactly what you lostor would you chose perhaps to do that later in writing?

ANSWER: I think it would be more convenient for me ifI can do it in writing.

<UNKNOWN>: Then make the document available?

ANSWER: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you.   Do you remember you and me consultedand you made mention of the fact that Col Gerry Mokubyane of thethen Bophutatswana police force arrived on the scene, 10 or 15minutes after the explosion.  Can you say something on that?

ANSWER: As I said, the incident occurred at about 2 o'clockin the morning.   At about 2:15 Col Gerry Mokubyane came leadinga squad of about 15 uniformed,
M-o-k-u-b-y-a-n-e Gerry, he was a Colonel then.   Yes, he cameleading a squad of plus/minus 15 men in camouflage uniform.  The first thing he said to me was where were you when this thinghappened, and I said to him I was in the house.   His reply was,no, his reply was "no you were not in this house".  I said to him I was wearing a top of a pyjamas, a pyjamas shirt,I actually the father who stays in my back opposite borrowed mea trouser and when I went to the neighbour to knock of this incidentthey couldn't hardly open the door for me because the windowswere shattered, the door couldn't open up.   So I stood there,my little child was crying, we were shocked all of us, I didn'tknow who was
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waiting on the side to shoot me in case I survived.   Then hecame, he accused me of not having been in the house.   Then Isaid to him I was in the house, I remember I got so angry becauseI said to him if you had prepared a statement about this incidentyou'd better go and read that statement as is, but I'm alive,I will counter it, that's what I said to him.   He immediatelyordered all of us to be taken to hospital.   I was refusing, butyou see the neighbour who persuaded me to say go into hospitalfor this minor injuries and for shock treatment is a good thingto do.   Little did I realise that when I arrive in hospital,he had already issued another car to follow me that will takeme from hospital to Zone 5 police station.   We were kept therefor a whole day, when my house was surrounded by police, who made...

CHAIRPERSON: Who is this we?