Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — UNKNOWN

WITNESS: Reverend, let us talk about the State of Emergency.  I was set free without being charged, after being held under solitary confinement.  In 1953, I was held under the State of Emergency.  Out of all the things that have been told by people, I was taken to Caledon.  I could not see it.  I did not know it before.  I was kept there for six months.  I was not allowed to meet with the other political prisoners.  The reason for that is because, on the 6th Floor at Le Grange, I think that was on 8 August when I was arrested, I was beaten up by Faku.  There was this special clap that he used that makes your ear to bleed.  All your nerves would be blown up.  It was a special clap.  The police were now angry because I was kept there for six months.  I got out of the prison in 1989 and I was restricted.  I was not allowed to speak to more than two people at a time.  I had to go to the police station twice and I would be harassed by the police the whole night.
I am trying to summarize, Reverend.  What I noticed in Uitenhage is that, what was going on was psychological suicide of the people, where people's minds would be damaged, they were not allowed to develop mentally because of this propaganda.  
The pending of this propaganda depended so much on lying, twisting the truth.  On the 6th Floor in August when I was arrested the policemen who were there, the Special Branch, while I was being beaten up by Faku.  I was asked two things.  They said there was another thing called "Flying men of Cholent".  I said I did not know anything about that.  They said that it means that we just want to throw you from this second floor.  Secondly they said, "We do not know how you escaped our plan."  They said, "If we could just get you now we know as the police, we would finish you."
I would like to make an announcement before I conclude, Reverend.  There is an article that was published in the newspaper last year, published by Ben Conradie.  Dr Conradie explained that he was a Ph.D doctor.  This programme which Holomisa was talking about yesterday, the Adult Education Consultancy, he spoke about this article saying that, "The way on Black on Black violence was funded."  I want the Truth Commission to dig deep into this.  I cannot rest before I can find our more about this.
When I went to Somerset East, in fact in Cookhouse, I asked the Comrades.  They said to me, "The journalists were here and some people confessed saying that we were paid by Dr Conradie."  The files that had recorded the death of Lesley at Livingstone simply disappeared.  We never got those.  If the Commission could investigate that, what happened.
I have the name of the police whom I do not want to mention now because I do not want him to run away.  He knows about the bomb that hit my house on 12 January 1991.  I am going to tell the Commission about this man.  I was hoping this policeman could come forward and tell the truth.  I want the Commission to investigate about that.  [Information lost due to recording].  To me it is a joke.  I want the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to please investigate about the massacre that was said that it has been started by the UDF.  There is no town, or even if there are few if there are any.  There was nothing like a banning order.  That used to happen in many towns in South Africa.  People from Langa to Kwanobuhle used to meet us on the way.  The SADF turned all the taxis away.  Some people said, "We will just go there on foot."  From Langa to town they would go there on foot.  People got shot. It was said that the funeral has been burnt.  
That is how the policemen used to explain the shooting of people.  I do not know if the Kannemeyer Commission is just a farce.  A second bomb that hit my house which was now investigated by Gerwel who was beating me, I want the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to investigate about that as well.  That is what I would like the Commission to do for me.
There are two more things that I would like to say.  The first one is, African people have certain customs and certain cultures.  If we as the Black policemen, if we say we have our say we will be lying.  They used to be sent by White men.  I am asking them to please come forward and talk because they know a lot.  We are asking them to please come forward.  I am dealing with police up to provincial level.  They must show that they are not animals.  They must come forward and tell that they were not doing this on their own, they were sent by these White men.

WITNESS: Last one, Reverend.
(?) Please hold, let him finish.

WITNESS: I have a solution here.  [Information lost due to recording]  ...with the Black people which takes the so-called Coloureds and Indians with ourselves as a group.  Among us we must have the Truth and Reconciliation.  We will tell a story and say we nearly got freedom.  We must just come forward without any fear.  I am a non-racialist to the extreme.  I follow the communism which says, "Take the country.  The country must be your first priority."  That is what Joe Slovo used to say and... [Information lost due to recording]  ...and seemingly the Truth and Reconciliation amongst ourselves.  We have been used by people whose minds have been turned into animals.  As Black people let us not fall into the trap.  Let us free our chains.  Let us free our minds.  If you are in power, let us be in power.  Let us go along with democracy.  [Information lost due to recording]  ...sacrificed, the Whites as well, but we must come together as a family and set an example.  We are in power here.  Thank you, Reverend.

APPLAUSE: (?) Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any questions from the panel?  Mr Kobese, thank you very much for your testimony.  We are challenged by the recommendations that you have put forward.  [Information lost due to recording]  ...taking each one of them very seriously.  
I think I am not acting out of...  I am not abusing my power as Chairperson for today.  If I say the role that should be played by policemen who come from our societies, it is going to be crucial in discovering the truth about the kinds of things that we are being asked to investigate.  When the Investigation Unit was launched on Monday we made a call them and to all policemen to come forward before they are named voluntarily.  It would be sad if they wait until they are named before they come forward.  So the call you have made indeed reaffirms the position of the TRC.  I declare that this session of our hearing is now adjourned.  We will reconvene as the Commission at 14h00.

ADJOURNS RESUMES: Witness Roslyn Stratford