Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MR BLACK: Thank you.   And what did you think had happened to - what do you think the security police - what has happened to Mr Sambo, Sweetie Sambo, at the time what did you think had happened when he'd been abducted and disappeared and never heard of again?

VOICE SAMBO: I wasn't the only one, I used to report various incidents.   We searched for him, we heard that the last place where he was seen was Nkamdamiya, at Nkamdamiya Base.  As I've already explained that we searched for him.   The last person who saw him was a security guy who was working at the gate.   He's the one who gave us this information that he saw Sweetie Sambo, and he also explained that he saw policemen and one of the policemen was from Mangwene Township and he was working at Komatipoort Police Station.  After that, we lost track and we didn't know what happened to him after he was seen at Nkamdamiya.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sambo... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: ...I am going to plead with you, and I hope I'm doing this for the last time, I want you to confine your responses to questions put to you by your counsel.   Please, we want to complete our work timeously.   The reason why you are being represented by counsel, counsel understands the law and he knows what information we have to rely upon in reaching a decision in respect of the offences for which you seek amnesty.   The question that was put to you is, "What do you think happened to Sweetie?"   You have come with evidence that has no bearing to the question that has been put before you.   Listen to the question.   If you do not understand the question, tell your counsel through us that you do not understand the question.   Do not attempt to answer a question that you do not understand, and do not respond to questions that have not been put to you.

MR BLACK: Thank you.   So, in other words, did you think that the security police, let's get to the point, did you think that the last time Sweetie was seen in the hands of the security police, since then he's never been seen, do you believe that the security police, or someone in the security forces, killed Mr Sambo?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Did you ever believe, after all this harassment and disappearance of your brother, that the security police would be prepared to kill you because of your non co-operation and your activities?

CHAIRPERSON: That's very leading, Mr Black.

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: And let's - there's another incident, which I don't want you to into great detail, but you did say that, in consultations, that at one stage Askaris were sent to your house to search for you?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: And they attempted to trap you into selling them guns?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can't we just ask questions that will elicit the correct answers without leading your client?   You've been asking seriously leading questions on things that are not that innocuous.

MR BLACK: Well I'm trying to avoid a situation that - if I had to ask what happened when the Askaris came there, we would end up with a detailed story.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I'm sure you've consulted with Mr Sambo... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...and we have warned Mr Sambo that we wouldn't want to have any information that is not intended to be ascertained by any question you ask.   Try him and see whether he has not really got short of what we'd stated to him just now.

MR BLACK: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't lead him, otherwise there's no reason for us to sit here when you're going to ask leading questions.   That's not the evidence that we'd like to have on our records.

MR BLACK: Now, Mr Sambo, these various and regular harassments by the security police and the incidents which you referred to in your affidavit, where they attempted to, or somebody attempted to plant AK47's on your property, and attempted to elicit the purchase of arms, and the regular visits which you say you were receiving from the security police, did you report this to your ANC command structure at all?

VOICE SAMBO: Yes, I used to report, especially the Nelspruit Branch, the people I used to work with them.

MR BLACK: And what did they say you must do about it, or what were they going to do about it?

VOICE SAMBO: Chris Hani came here in Nelspruit and I was told that I must come to Nelspruit.   I've spoken to Mr Chris Hani and he told me that, because I've already decided that I wanted to go and join Holomisa, and Chris Hani said no, I mustn't, I must stay at home and defend myself when there was a need for me to defend myself, because I was doing a job there in Komatipoort.

MR BLACK: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: When was this meeting with Mr Hani?

VOICE SAMBO: In 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: And when were attempts made to plant weapons on you by Askaris?

VOICE SAMBO: In 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: And when did you report all these incidents to the ANC in Nelspruit?   When, when did you report them?

VOICE SAMBO: Usually, if anything happened today, I would go the next day to Nelspruit and report.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Black, you may proceed.

MR BLACK: Thank you.   So let us now arrive at October 1992.   By this stage, after all your experiences and your instructions given by the ANC, what did you think that the intention of the security police were?

VOICE SAMBO: Security Branch wanted to kill me, they wanted to assassinate me.    I gathered this from their actions or their behaviour.

MR BLACK: Now, in October of 1992... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Won't you let him explain... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...Mr Black, what he means by saying that the Security Branch wanted to kill him by assassinating him and he concluded that they still wanted to kill him through an assassination from their behaviour... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...what was the behaviour that made him to conclude that the intention was to assassinate him?

MR BLACK: Yes.   Do you understand what, Mr Sambo, why did you believe that they were going to assassinate you, or send somebody to kill you?

VOICE SAMBO: I'm not thinking this, it's something that I know.   This is what happened, one day I left my place, I went to see my girlfriend.   Her mother and herself, my girlfriend, told me that seven men came at night.   The house was a two roomed house made of steel, iron steel, and they told me there were four African policemen and three white policemen.   Two of the African men, I knew them, and they knocked hard and forcefully, they searched the house and they asked them as to where I was, and they told them that I was at my place in Block B.   My girlfriend knew at that time that the police wanted to kill me.   She knew this because I told her so.   So I told my boyfriend (sic) that whenever policemen will come and her, she must tell them where to find me in Block B at my place, and they told my girlfriend that they were going to kill me.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying, in short, police came to your girlfriend's house one night, searched and advised your girlfriend that they wanted to kill you, and then left?

VOICE SAMBO: Yebo.

CHAIRPERSON: I wish you could be as short as that, Mr Sambo.

VOICE SAMBO: Yes.

MR BLACK: Now, okay, in October 1992 when this shooting took place between you and the two policemen, I just want you to tell the committee what happened in the morning of that day?   You state in your affidavit, on page 13 of the papers, that there were soldiers came to search and sweep your premises and your house, that's in the morning, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Now, did they cause any damage to your property?

CHAIRPERSON: Is that relevant, Mr Black?

VOICE SAMBO: Yes, they caused damage to my property.   I have evidence of that, I think I have it here with me.