Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

CHAIRPERSON: We will now go to the case of Matatiele.  Is tea ready?  I think we have to go have tea first so that we can have energy.  We will take ten minutes, 10, 15 and we come back after that, thank you.
 We request the Matatiele group to come forward.  Ntombentsundu Gladys Ndaba, Ansarah Ndabakazi Zokwe, Eunice Nozizwe Ndaba, Nombuyiselo Tabalaza, Busisiwe Ndabambi, Amelia Nomatshawe Jozi, Magdelina Nombulelo Matshaya, Jeanette Nomachule Ndlebe.
 Before you swear them in I request that Mr Velele Miachana, who was not on this list, we have his statement.  He also should be a part of this group.   We have his statement in your office in East London.

REV XUNDU: I will start to swear the witnesses in.

NTOMBENTSUNDU GLADYS NDABA: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

ANSARAH NDABAKAZI ZOKWE: (sworn states)

EUNICE NOZIZWE NDABA: (sworn states)

NOMBUYISELO TABALAZA: (sworn states)

BUSISIWE NDABAMBI: (sworn states)

AMELIA NOMATSHAWE JOZI: (sworn states)

MAGDELINA NOMBULELO MATSHAYA: (sworn states)

JEANETTE NOMACHULE NDLEBE: (sworn states)

VELELE MIACHANA: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, they have been properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Reverend Xundu.  We welcome you here.  We will ask Tiny Maya to lead you.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Before I start, I just want to clarify that on Sunday when we met with these people, as there are 10 people here, five of the witnesses will speak.  The others are just going to confirm so that they are able to put their requests before the Commission.
 Nombuyiselo Tabalaza will speak, Ntombentsundu Gladys Ndaba, Ansarah Ndabakazi Zokwe, Magdelina Nombulelo Matshaya and Mr Velele Miachana.  I request that the mike goes to Nombuyiselo Tabalaza.
 First of all, I would like you to confirm that all of you who are sitting there, are of the same incident that occurred in 1990, is that so?  First please give us the root of the incident, what happened at Mangwo, a background perhaps, could you brief us?

NOMBUYISELO TABALAZA: At Mangwo, I was the first woman to start the work of transporting people.  I got a bakkie and a kombi.  I had to go to Johannesburg because I had an eyesight problem.
 When I came back from Johannesburg, it was on Tuesday, it was in March.  When I got home, I realised that the
children of the village were members of the ANC, the youth.  There was a date set for a meeting to call visitors who were going to tell them what the ANC is all about.  On the 17th of March on a Saturday, I was going to go to Mzamba.  I came back on the Sunday, the day the meeting was going to take place.  It was going to be a youth meeting.
 That morning there was a group of comrades, Zihle Twala was a part of that group, they were coming to my shop.  When they got there, I - when I looked at them in the eye, I could see that they were not happy. 
 They said that, they requested that I give them cold drink.  This cold drink they were going to give to the members of the ANC that was going to inform the youth of the ANC.  They took a litre of cold drink, they said they wanted to talk to me, I went to them.
 Zihle then said to me that they have come to tell me that they put me in trouble.  I asked him what kind of trouble, he said that they did not sleep the previous night, they were tortured, taken from their homes by  Kekeni Ndleleni, Christopher Sipika, Zwelonke  Sipika, Revd Mlandi.  They took them from their own homes as comrades.  They took me Zihle said to a small room where Zwelonke Sipika worked.  They closed me into the small room and they said to me that at the meeting that was going to be at the hall the next day on the 18th of March, when the people are there, Zihle must address the people at the meeting.
 Zihle then said they must burn down Kekeni's second floor of the building.  She then refused, she was threatened with guns, swords and axes.  They said that if Zihle is not going to say this about Nombuyiselo, that is myself, then they are going to kill me and my parents won't know what
happened to me.
 So to save my life, Zihle said she agreed that she would address the meeting.  I went to my colleagues, she said that she went to my colleagues and my colleagues then said that she must come and tell me, so I said that I must go to the police and tell them what happened so that after the meeting occurs, it is clear what they have done to her.
 I went to Maluti, there were two police.  The police said that is was just the two of them, therefor they could not go to the meeting, because there would be no policemen left at the station.
 We came back with the Lieutenant.  When I got to the village, I realised that the children in that meeting, the youth that is, some of them were on the Mpolele mountain.  The atmosphere was very oppressive at the village, very heavy and then I saw another group walking down the road.
 I asked what was happening, the youth said that the men in the villages were chasing them, therefor they are going to sleep in the forrest, because they were told that the men of the village were going to kill them.
 I said that they could not sleep in the forrest.  They said that they've already been beaten up, they have been chased out of the area, if they had to sleep at home, they were not safe.
 They then decided to go and sleep at the Headmen's place, Dumor Lipinda, who is my brother.  The leaders of the Youth League, ANC Youth League, were the ones who were mostly chased.

MS MAYA: Let us just look at the matter when the youth came to your house or your shop.

NOMBUYISELO TABALAZA: Later that afternoon when we were preparing
to go to bed, my daughters left to go to sleep.  I saw them coming pushing the door, saying that there are people surrounding my yard.  I went out to see what was going on, it was full moon, I could see reflections.  
 These people were coughing, some smoking, I asked what they wanted in my house, why they were surrounding my house.  There was no answer.  In stead men emanated from a corner next to the gate, I peeped through the window, I saw Kekeni Ndleleni with other men.
 The Headmen Mfele was there as well.  I saw them.  I then said I was shocked that the Headmen was there.  They came closer to my yard.  They broke down my windows, kicked my door open.  Some of the men that were around the house, when I asked what they wanted, the answer was they did not want me, they wanted my children.  They wanted the youth.
 Then they shot wheels of my car, I heard a voice from outside and somebody said, screaming what is happening.  I then said, there are men surrounding my house, they have come to kill me.
 And this person who wanted to know what was happening, I could sense that these men were approaching this person, I heard murmurs, I could not even go outside to see what was happening to this person.  I found out the next morning that it was Mlungisi who was one of the comrades who was taken by the men to the police.
 There was a huge truck there with - he had other men.  I don't know where these men came from.  Mlungisi was ill-treated and beaten up as a comrade.  They said that they did not want toyi-toyi in the village.  He perhaps can clarify and say who it is exactly who beat him up.

MS MAYA: Could you tell us about the arson on the 27th of
April, maybe I should help you a bit?  When was your house burnt down?