Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

IVAN FALLON: I think the, if I could just address the Nieman initiative.  This arose, essentially, from the very first international advisory board meeting that Independent Newspapers had in Cape Town in June 1995 when in the discussion we had then, we had various major international people who came for that discussion.  It was very, very clear that Independent Newspapers was not going anywhere until we had serious black properly trained editors in place in some of our newspapers.  At that stage, I think, we had one out of 16 and how do we go about that.  Certainly, when I arrived in South Africa people told me that they, I was not going to be able to appoint any, because there were not available men, man.  Anybody, black, white, black, men or women, there were no decently trained black journalists in a position to be promoted to run our significant flagship newspapers.	That was what we identified as an immediate short term gap which we set out to fill and we set out to fill it with the best people we could find and we set up a proper process which the, as you know Mr Lewin was involved in, at the time, in finding the best possible candidates and we arranged a special request on Dr O'Reilly to Harvard and Nieman, that they would lay on a special course. Now, this was seen as a very short term measure.  We expanded it, as you know, with the help of the institute to make the seven that we sent to Harvard, 13.  There were a number of women on that.  I do not think there were any black women, but there were women and, actually, to have women on the course, at all, was seen as a very, very major achievement.	I think that was actually and a lot of those people have come through since into quite significant positions in the company.  Now, it is an ongoing process.  There were no women and I appreciate it is an enormous gap and I apologise for it.  I wish there were.  In the same way we actually also get criticised for having no women on the International Advisory Board which is something that we are also trying to do something about, but it is, undoubtedly, a significant gap.  It is something I am extremely uncomfortable about and something, I think, we will, in the future, work even harder to fill.

MR LEWIN: Thanks very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  It remains for me to thank you, gentlemen, and I say so comfortably, because I have been saying gentlemen ever since I started, except only for yesterday when there was one lady who came and it speaks to what you have been asked by Hugh Lewin.  I do not, of course, entertain the hopes of Cyril Ramaphosa, that there will be another time when the Truth Commission will be going through this exercise.  You can be sure that the time for women from Independent Newspapers to be representing your views before the Commission has, unfortunately, gone past, but having said that, I would sincerely hope that the programmes that you have set for fast tracking both, all the disadvantaged communities in terms of gender and race will be on course.  	I, and I do not think it should, there should be other circumstances by other than sheer will on your part to use your, the powers that you have to make sure that it stays on course.  In this country there have had to be drastic measures to cause certain things to happen.  We grew up in an age when, even in sport, you would be told that there are not sufficient or sufficiently trained people of the group that sought to be promoted.  I grew up at a time when it was Fifa who insisted, when we were told that there are not sufficiently trained black soccer people, playing people in South Africa, they just insisted that, well, for as long as you do not have them, you will stay outside.  	If there are no black players, go and find them and it was wonderful how quickly they found and we now have a team in South Africa which we can call a truly South African team as far as that sporting code is concerned.  I do not know whether you have any international sanctions, bodies which would cause you to be fast on the move, but I think from just what you said today, we can hope that, with the passage of time, those programmes will reflect in the years to come, the extent which you are committed when you said the things that you said to us today.  Thank you.

IVAN FALLON: Mr Chairman, finally, I would promise you that will be so.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Then our next submission will be coming from both Dennis Cruywagen ... Shall we settle down so that we can register some progress?  I am aware that you, in terms of our programme, you are supposed to be giving your submissions separately, but I am also aware that Dennis did make some appearance before this Commission in Cape Town, and in that context had pretty much highlighted the sort of things that, as a journalist, he wanted to talk about, in the context of those hearings.  Especially, in his capacity as journalist covering the (indistinct) incidents and similar lines in the Western Cape.	I would therefore assume that by agreement, you will allow Nomavenda to give a perspective which I do not need to dictate, but otherwise before you do start, I will ask Commissioner Burton to swear you in.
FORUM OF BLACK JOURNALISTS

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: (Duly sworn, states).

DENNIS CRUYWAGEN: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Mkhize, Hlengiwe Mkhize will facilitate in your submissions.

UNKNOWN: I would also like to add a word of welcome to that of the Chair.  Nomavenda, we have had an opportunity of interacting with you during the hearings which were covering the '76, June '76 Soweto riots and also you have assisted us on other instances as a Commission.	But today, as I am looking at your submission, you are looking specifically at the struggles of black female journalists against their black males.  So I would like you to take us through your submission and then we will ask you a few questions for clarification.