Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-09-08

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Arendse?

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Chairperson, Honourable Members of the Committee.  The next applicant is Mr Andile Shiceka, for the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shiceka, are you prepared to take the oath?

ANDILE SHICEKA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: The is a matter in which you are concerned?

MR WARNER: Mr Chairman, I am concerned with the attack on the restaurant in Claremont.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that's right.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Chairperson.
	Andile, where do you stay when you are here in Cape Town, your address?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Guguletu NY72 at 11.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Presently what are you doing, are you working?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I'm undergoing training, South African Airforce at flight 6 in Pretoria.

NORMAN ARENDSE: In which department or which section?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Mustering of personnel.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you have any schooling and if so, up to which standard did you go?  Did you complete your schooling?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I passed my standard 10.  Right now I'm busy with my BA Public Administration Degree.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Through correspondence, is it through correspondence Unisa?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Unisa.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you.

MR WARNER: Mr Chairman, if I may interject, I'm sorry.  I believe the Committee has not got a copy of the opposing affidavit.  May I hand it in to the Committee?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do.

MR WARNER: Thank you.
MR WARNER HANDS IN OPPOSING AFFIDAVIT

NORMAN ARENDSE: Where were you born?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Here in Cape Town.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Have you always lived here in Cape Town?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you leave Cape Town at any stage, and if so, when was that?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I left Cape Town at the time I left for exile in 1989, June.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And you went into exile you say, where did you go?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Tanzania and Uganda.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Why did you go into exile?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Because I saw that African people are oppressed, therefore I wanted to go and join a liberation movement to liberate them.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you join one of the liberation armies when you went into exile and if so, which of the two liberation armies?

ANDILE SHICEKA: APLA.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Would it be correct to assume that when you went into exile, joined APLA, you also underwent military training when you were in exile?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: How old were you when you went into exile, that would have been in 1989?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I was 20 years old.

NORMAN ARENDSE: How old are you now?

ANDILE SHICEKA: 29 years now.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you return to South African at any stage?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Yes, I returned.

NORMAN ARENDSE: When was that?

ANDILE SHICEKA: 1992.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Did you return to Cape Town or did you return to somewhere else in the country?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I went to Transkei.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Is there any particular reason why you went to the Transkei?

ANDILE SHICEKA: It was because most of the APLA High Command was based in Transkei.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now you had already gone into exile in 1989, you underwent military training there, would it be correct to say that you at that stage, in April 1992 when you went to the Transkei, you were already regarded as an APLA soldier or combatant?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now, you are applying - or let's just for the record, you had also been involved in the Newcastle Crazy Beat Disco incident and you applied for amnesty and you were granted amnesty in respect of that incident, is that correct?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You are now applying for amnesty in respect of two incidents, the one at Khayelitsha Train Station and the one at the Claremont restaurant, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now obviously both these attacks took place in Cape Town.

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: You had gone from exile into Transkei, at what stage did you then get to Cape Town?  How did you get to Cape Town?  Did you come so out of your own or did someone tell you to come here to Cape Town?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I was sent by a member of the High Command called Power.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Just for the record, this is the same person that has been referred to by your other comrades, Power, Mzala, Jones, is this one and the same person?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I cannot confirm nor can I deny because what happens most times, at the time when they were involved with Mzala, as they called Mzala, I was not there.  So most of the times comrades use combat names.  I would not know whether it was Power because at the time they were talking with him I was not there.

NORMAN ARENDSE: But the person who sent you was code-named Power?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you since then learnt whether Power and Mzala are the same person?  Do you now know whether that is so?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I know so.

CHAIRPERSON: That Power and Mzala are the same person?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Chairperson.
	Now when did Power send you to Cape Town?

ANDILE SHICEKA: 1992, late 1992, I cannot remember the precise dates but it was late in 1992.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Why were you sent to Cape Town?

ANDILE SHICEKA: To come and attack white people and policemen and state security officials or the state machinery generally.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Was that a general instruction or did he specifically say to you you must attack Khayelitsha Station, Claremont restaurant, Heidelberg Tavern or whatever?  In other words, did he send you here with specific targets in mind or was the instruction to you just a general one?

ANDILE SHICEKA: General.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Whose responsibility was it to identify the targets?

ANDILE SHICEKA: It was mine and my unit.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Your unit, is it correct to assume that you were a commander of a unit, an APLA unit?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Who were the other persons in your unit?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Chicken Licken, DK, he's called Mokasong Kadaki ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: What name did you say?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is off.

ANDILE SHICEKA: Chicken Licken, DK, who were the first I came to Cape Town with.

NORMAN ARENDSE: So when you came to Cape Town you came with Chicken Licken and DK?  Did they have any other names?

ANDILE SHICEKA: It was Chicken Licken and DK.

NORMAN ARENDSE: When is the last time that you saw Chicken Licken and DK?  Have you seen them recently

ANDILE SHICEKA: No.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Were they - well, they were then also in the unit.

CHAIRPERSON: No, he didn't answer the first part of the question.  When last did you see them?

ANDILE SHICEKA: In 1993 when I left Cape Town in January.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now when you came to Cape Town, were you provided with any food, clothing, money, arms, ammunition and if so, who provided you with these means?

ANDILE SHICEKA: I was not given clothes or money, what I was given was money to travel with and money to eat, for refreshments and food because the road is long between Cape Town and Transkei.

NORMAN ARENDSE: This money, was it for your use or was it ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I didn't hear the translation of that.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the witness say?

INTERPRETER: He said he used the money for food and to pay for transport as the road is long between Cape Town and Transkei.

NORMAN ARENDSE: They money, was it for you personally or also for members of your unit?

ANDILE SHICEKA: It was money for the unit, all of it.

NORMAN ARENDSE: How much money was it?

ANDILE SHICEKA: R1 000.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Who gave you the money?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Power.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Now you left the Transkei in a bus, is that right, in a Translux bus?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.

NORMAN ARENDSE: And while you were on the bus or on the bus, you also had arms and ammunition with you, is that right?

ANDILE SHICEKA: Correct.