Amnesty Hearings — White River — 2000-05-04

MR SNYDERS: This was not determined by me, I was under the command of one, Commandant Douw Steyn, who served on the Management Committee of Nelspruit High at that stage.  They determined the targets and determined who belonged to what, so I was actually only an operation on the ground.  I served in the higher structures at TG, but they were in command and they identified the persons.  And as you know, persons in the Broederbond were prominent persons in the National Party.  That is how we determined it.

MR VAN DER BANK: Is it correct when I put it to you that the Afrikaner Broederbond just like Toekomsgesprek, were both a secret organisations of which the members or the membership were unknown to the general public?

MR SNYDERS: Yes, that is correct.

MR VAN DER BANK: Therefore Sir, when you accepted these instructions from Commandant Steyn, you accepted in good faith that they were members of the Broederbond or the National Party, who you had taken action against at that stage?

MR SNYDERS: That's correct.  I would just like to tell the Committee that Commandant Douw Steyn and some of the other members were also earlier in the Broederbond, and that is how they knew.  Commandant Douw Steyn was a Commander in the Army, which was automatically part of the Broederbond and he and Mr Booyens served in the same organisation before the breakaway of the CP, and after this breakaway, the Rapportryers also broke away.

MR VAN DER BANK: At a stage after these explosions had taken place at the Agricultural College, as well as Nelspruit High School, did the organisation Toekomsgesprek succeed in any political objective as you have stated earlier, to cause this reign of terror?

MR SNYDERS: No, I do not believe they succeeded.  That is my version.

MR VAN DER BANK: And furthermore Mr Snyders, this act, was it primarily aimed at the State?

MR SNYDERS: Yes, that is correct, the instructions we received.

MR VAN DER BANK: And furthermore, is it correct to state that the purpose was to cause great damage and to cause great disruption at these schools?

MR SNYDERS: I would say it was more to cause a disruption.  The damage was not that great, but the impact of a bomb explosion, if you look at the damage of R6 000, that is not a great damage, one could have damaged the whole building.  This was just a reign of terror that we wanted to create and the fact that it received media coverage and persons would react tremendously to this.  We know what happened in the past.

MR VAN DER BANK: And insofar as you know, the leader of the CP was Mr Andries Treurnicht at that stage and he was completely aware of all the plantings of bombs in the Nelspruit vicinity.

MR SNYDERS: I am not able to say that he was completely aware, but the fact is that I was under the command and all that I knew was that I was a member of the Defence Group that had to train many other cells, and all that I know is that it had to be cleared with the politicians first, with the leaders.  The leaders, meaning Andries Beyers and Andries Treurnicht.  Douw Steyn had direct liaison with them and that is what he conveyed to me and that is my version.

MR VAN DER BANK: Yes.  Sir, if I may refer you to page 70 of the bundle, this is a document from the Conservative Party to the Amnesty Committee itself.  As you will see from this letter, the Conservative Party denies any actions outside the political framework of political activity and by implication, that they were never involved in any unlawful planting of bombs and so forth.  What is your comment to this?

MR SNYDERS: I think the Commission is aware of political parties and their versions of everything.  The fact of the matter is that we were at grassroots level, we were on the ground and we had to do these things on their instructions.  My version here is the truth, I cannot comment as to what he denies and what he does not deny.  These people making these allegations must come and stand here in the box and say under oath that they knew or they did not know. In any case I see this is a Mr Wouter Hoffman who signed it, who at that stage was not the Head Secretary of the political party, but Mr Andries Beyers.  Mr Andries Beyers personally came from Pretoria.  Where we tested bombs, he came to see what the effect of these bombs were.  So I reject this document in its entirety.

MR VAN DER BANK: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER BANK

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr van der Bank.  Ms Mtanga.

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson, I just have a few questions.
	Mr Snyders, in your evidence you referred to the bombing of Sabie Magistrate's Court, were you involved in this bombing?

MR SNYDERS: I was not involved in the area, but I conveyed the instruction to Tienie Ras and Jan Kruger, from Commandant Douw Steyn and I was involved in the manufacturing of the explosive device.

MS MTANGA: Are you therefore applying for manufacturing those explosives for that incident?

MR SNYDERS: Yes, that is correct.

MS MTANGA: What was the reason for the bombing of the Magistrate's Court?

MR SNYDERS: The attack there was aimed at State targets and it was to draw attention to the Afrikaner resistance which was developing.

MS MTANGA: How would this serve your political organisation or the armed action that you referred to, the - I think it's the "gesprek", I can't recall the name.

ADV SANDI: Toekomsgesprek.

MS MTANGA: How would that bombing serve that organisation and the Conservative Party?

MR SNYDERS: I do not understand your question completely, would you please repeat it.

MS MTANGA: I'm trying to understand the political objective that would be achieved by the bombing of Sabie Magistrate's Court, in respect of your organisation, the Conservative Party and the Toekomsgesprek that you were a member of.

MR SNYDERS: The purpose of explosions like for example, at the Magistrate's Court in Sabie, that was to cause panic with the voters, the voters who had to vote for the National Party, and the fact that certain State targets were identified was merely because the attacks were aimed at this.  As you know schools and courts, these are all State property, and it was to draw attention, the attention of the National Party, of the Afrikaner's resistance and these unacceptable policies that they wanted to execute.  This was just pre-emptive, to show the world that the country was ungovernable at that stage.  I cannot tell you exactly, I acted under instructions myself, I received an order and I was just told to do this.

MS MTANGA: Were you told what would be the significance of - or what was the reason for choosing that particular Magistrate's Court?

MR SNYDERS: No, no reasons were extended to me as to why that court was chosen.

MS MTANGA: I have no further questions, Chairperson, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Mtanga.

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Chair.  Mr Snyders, can you say at what stage exactly the Toekomsgesprek Group was established?  I know the Conservative Party was formed in 1982, when was this Toekomsgesprek formed?

MR SNYDERS: I was not present at the founding of Toekomsgesprek, the only thing I can tell is that after the break of the National Party, when the CP was founded and many months after that there was great confrontation in the Afrikaner Broederbond, because you will know that Andries Treurnicht was a member of the Broederbond.  So the confrontation within the secret structures at that stage, caused the break in the Broederbond and that is why the CP's secret organisation was founded.  At a later stage I was involved by Commandant Douw Steyn, but I was not involved in the founding of it.  I was at that stage a member of the Rapportryers corpse.