Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

MR SHEZI: Okay.  The askaris that went there, to your knowledge they were not policemen?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, they were not policemen.

MR SHEZI: Therefore they could not have been going there for purposes of arrest as it were?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: That is correct, Sir.

MR SHEZI: You said de Kock said "Do not get involved or participate in this operation" because he had another job for you.  What would that job be?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: He did not specify, he just said that there would be another mission in future.  There was no further explanation.

MR SHEZI: And this incident of Chesterville, it took place after how many days having arrived in Durban with de Kock?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: It is very difficult for me to remember or to state exactly, I cannot remember.

MR SHEZI: I see.  The group that left, leaving you seated in the car under the bridge, which drove to Chesterville, are you saying your understanding as they left at that time, it was merely to do nothing else but to kill?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, that is what I knew, Sir.

MR SHEZI: You knew that because you heard direct instructions being given to the group, or it was just your assumption?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I was not assuming, I was told that they were going to shoot at the people there, and even when I heard the shots, no-one panicked.  From the people who were with me, no-one panicked to show that they were surprised.  No-one panicked during that moment.

MR SHEZI: Were you at any stage present when an instruction was given directly to the group that "You are now going to Chesterville to do A, B, C?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: No, I was not present, Sir.

MR SHEZI: At a later stage, whether that very same evening or the following day or a couple of days later, did you ever have a chat with this group, about what they went to do there or what happened there?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Most of the askaris, Sir, were scared to talk about their involvement because they were doing that per instruction.  They were scared because if they tell me something I would go and tell de Kock, therefore it was very dangerous for them to reveal anything about their involvement.  Therefore there was supposed to be confidentiality, they were supposed to be secretive.

MR SHEZI: And the handing of the weapons to the group, where did this take place again?  Did it take place at the bridge or it took place at the base at CR Swart?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: As far as I can remember that took place at the base and when they got into the - next to the bridge, their car stopped and then they got out of the car and they went to Chesterville.

MR SHEZI: Also a question was put to you earlier on, I think by Mr Cornelius, to say the infiltration and the operation all took place in one day.  What's your knowledge of comment of that, did these two things happen on two separate occasions or it happened on the same day?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I can say it could have been one day.  I am not sure whether it took place, the other incident took place the following day or whenever, but I cannot that certain.

MR SHEZI: That will be all, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHEZI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Shezi.  Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson.
	Mr Nofomela, after the askaris and Mr Radebe came back to the kombi where you were parked at Chesterville, I know the incident took place a long time ago, but can you recall whether any of those who had gone out on the operation had in fact been injured?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Not even a single one.  I am sure about that.

MS PATEL: Alright.  And then just to move on to your motivation.  You were stating that - you stated that you went to Vlakplaas in 1980, was that immediately after training college?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I went there in 1980, December, after acquiring training from the college in 1980, perhaps in June or December, but I was already coming from the college at the time.

MS PATEL: Okay.  Why did you choose - did you choose to go to Vlakplaas rather than just a normal SAP branch?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: We were told about certain principles and we were told that we would be transferred to any branch or division of the Police Force.  Col Baker came to the college and they told him that I was a very good student and therefore he said he wanted me to go and work in Pretoria at the headquarters.  He never made mention of Vlakplaas, but he mentioned Pretoria.  But when I got there in Pretoria they told me that I had to go to Vlakplaas.  That is how I landed there.  I only got to know that when I arrived in Pretoria, that I was supposed to go to Vlakplaas.

MS PATEL: Okay.  And after you got there you were no doubt aware of the kinds of activities that Vlakplaas was involved in?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: No, I had no knowledge of the activities.

MS PATEL: After you got there, during the years prior to this incident, from 1980 to 1986, are you saying you were not aware of what activities Vlakplaas was involved in?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I knew because initially I was involved in some missions, just before this 1986 incident.  I knew at the time what was happening as to the activities of Vlakplaas were concerned.

MS PATEL: Okay.  Can you explain to us why you got involved in those activities?  Just generally, it's not a specific question, it's a general question.

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I was told that - I would be told that today we'd go to such and such a place with a certain person.  For instance, Dirk Coetzee was the first person who involved me in mission.  One day he told me - he told us to move from Pretoria to Durban and then from there he told us, he instructed us to kill a certain lawyer.  And in the missions I was involved with Col Cronje and he also called me, that we were supposed to undertake a certain mission at a certain place.  That is how I got involved in those activities up until when Mr de Kock came and he did the same thing.

MS PATEL: Okay.  So you were simply following orders, you had no idea what the broader motivation was for getting involved in those operations?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: You would be given a picture that all the people who were involved in the political organisation were enemies, therefore you would be a person who would be representing the apartheid government.  Therefore, each and every person who is opposing you would fight that particular person per instruction from the commander.  That is what I had in my mind.  That was an obligation that I had or to fulfil, that I should fight whenever I am instructed to.

MS PATEL: Did you believe that the apartheid government at that stage was a legitimate government?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: At some stage I realised that that was not right, but it was too late for me, I was already deeply involved and I thought I was doing the right thing.

MS PATEL: At what stage did you realise this, can you give us more-or-less which year it was?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: When you look back and you'll see that this was happening one-sided and you would realise that if you have killed a black person you would be praised, but if a white person was killed, no praises.  You wouldn't be give a mission to go and kill people like Vermeulen, white people, you wouldn't be given such missions, but you would be given only missions to kill the blacks, therefore, I could see that this thing was one-sided.  I realised that that was wrong, but I had no way out.

MS PATEL: So after how many years at Vlakplaas did you realise this, that this was wrong?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: It wasn't long, I think after four years.

MS PATEL: Okay.  So it's prior to this incident taking place?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, that is correct.