Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

MR MSIZA: Yes, he is still in Mamelodi.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much Sir.  No more questions.

MR MSIZA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any further questions?  Tom Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Has Bernard ever apologised to the community of Mamelodi after that incident?

MR MSIZA: No.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other.  Wynand Malan.

MR MALAN: You say that it was compulsory to participate in the march.  Is that correct?  You were forced to do it.  What would have happened if you had not gone.  What would have happened if you did not go, if people would have stayed away?

MR MSIZA: Nobody knows.

MR MALAN: You also, well we will ask everybody.  Maybe we can find out from some who could know.  Could I ask you a follow-up question to this.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

MR MALAN: You say you withdrew from the march, you surrendered as you say in your statement before it got to the Municipal offices, I assume.  Did you go back to your home?

MR MSIZA: No, I did not go back home because after I went and I found out that my wife had been shot I did not stay there, I went to there.  I went there and I found that she had been shot thrice in her back.

MR MALAN: I am not sure, in your statement you say that the march was on, your wife was a participant.  You say you saw the police and the fleet of police cars and you say then you PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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surrendered.  Can you just explain that?

MR MSIZA: When they started shooting I had already run.

MR MALAN: So you only left when the shooting started?  Is that so?  Did you only leave when the shooting started?

MR MSIZA: I ran away when they started shooting.  We ran up the mountain because the police and ...

MR MALAN: Thank you very much.

MR MSIZA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Even if we laugh we know that we are laughing because we do not want to cry and when you also tell the story you tell it with a bit of humour such as you ran and they started shooting and hitting, but we do not laugh because we are laughing at you, we are laughing with you because our hears are also sore because of what you are telling us.  You are telling us something very painful.  Telling us that your wife had already died, she had been shot in her back and you raised your child on your own.  It is difficult to console a person yet we must try and say that one should try and hang in there no matter how hard it may be.  Even though it is difficult we know that things will get better in time and that she paid the price for our liberation which we are enjoying today.  We know that today we have, we are reaping the fruits of what we sowed back then and we hear what you are saying when you say that it took you many years, it was years before there was even a trial and that nothing became of that case.
 We will try and investigate to establish what happened and also find out about this amount of R1 384,00, try and establish what this money was for, why they said they were giving you this money.  If they said that it was funeral expenses, somebody that had been buried back then should now PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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be such, this pittance should compensate for the life of somebody or alternatively if there was more money that was compensated and if somebody else maybe took some of the money.  We will investigate all those possibilities, but we thank you for having come, to come and share your pain with us.

MR MSIZA: Thank you very much Archbishop.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG