Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

MR VALLY: I am sorry Dr Lourens there is one issue we want to canvass which is, what role did Dr Lothar Neethling play in any of the front companies you were involved in, other than him coming to meet privately with Mr Bart Hetema about aerosol cans?

JAN LOURENS: Dr Neethling played, as far as my exposure to him had been concerned, and I must really tell you, strange as it may seem, is that I had a great deal of exposure to him, played no role.  There was numerous opportunities in which we could have discussed intricacies of Project etc etc, and it never, ever occurred, never.  So I have to say to you, no role as far as my participation was concerned.

MR VALLY: Thank you Dr Lourens.

CHAIRPERSON: I have to thank you Dr Lourens for having made yourself available. Subject to the arrangements that still have to be made for your further availability, you are excused.

JAN LOURENS: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Currin.  Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chair.  We call Mr Charles van Remoortere.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally do you have an indication of whether Mr van Remoortere will be over with by six o'clock, at ten to six?

MR VALLY: I did have that indication Mr Chairperson until you started questioning the last witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in which event I think whatever arrangement you had made with us for that reason now flies out of the window. We adjourn now until tomorrow morning.

MR VALLY: We will not be longer than half an hour with Mr van Remoortere.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I appreciate that but I know your half-an-hours Mr Vally.  Nine o'clock

MR VALLY: Okay.  Mr van Remoortere is not available tomorrow.  He has spent most of today here.  If we can hear him because we have got a very little, small area to cover with him.

CHAIRPERSON: It's difficult.  But Mr Vally are you sure that if he's going to be cross-examined you have canvassed this with your learned friends?  Is there going to be a cross-examination of this witness?

JAN LOURENS: I haven't canvassed this specifically with my learned friends but he's not giving evidence, as far as I am aware, relating to them at all.

CHAIRPERSON: I am reluctant to allow it Mr Vally but I suppose if he's not available tomorrow and he's kosher I will assume let us entertain him.

MR VALLY: Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: And only relevant cross-examination in-chief.  I will have to curtail this.

MR VALLY: Mr Chair we are trying to make up time.  This witness will not take long.  I suggest we complete with him.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay Mr Vally.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr van Remoortere you are a Belgian citizen, is that right?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Yes that's right.

MR VALLY: When did you come to South Africa?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: In 1982.

MR VALLY: When did you get involved in the company that Dr Lourens was talking about, SDR?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: I got involved in, I started getting involved in the companies in 1988/9.  I was involved before that in helping Dr Basson getting some information in Europe and helping Jan Lourens getting some information in Europe and I was already trading in some of the products that they required.  But I was involved in the companies, the companies really got operational from '89, '88-'89, the Protechnic/Technotec issue.

MR VALLY: What sort of information were you getting for Dr Wouter Basson?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: In 1986 when Dr Basson contacted me he required to have information in relation to protective products for soldiers, and information regarding the possible testing through the process of manufacturing these items in South Africa.  And therefore the whole base of the SRG/Protechnic, scientific base, had to come from somewhere.  And because of my background and my relationship I could secure a great part of that scientific knowledge, technical knowledge.

MR VALLY: When you say you could secure it, how could you secure it?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Well I had contacts in Europe that supplied me the information and that information was paid for by Dr Basson.

MR VALLY: Were you involved in what was commonly called the "sanctions busting" for the South African government in those days?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Yes, absolutely.

MR VALLY: Did you provide Dr Basson with any information on offensive chemical and biological warfare?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Sorry I didn't get that question.

MR VALLY: Did you, besides the defensive clothing manufacturing, did you provide Dr Basson with any information on offensive chemical or biological warfare programmes?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Never.

MR VALLY: When you - did you buy Protechnic from the Defence Force?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: No.  I bought Protechnic when Protechnic became available on the market from a company called Medchem, which at the time I did not know was part of a whole, was a front company and was part of the whole system.

MR VALLY: Did you know that Protechnic was a front company?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: No Protechnic was not a front company - well when I bought it it was a front, but under my management it was not anymore a front company.  The only link that was still in that company that was a front was Dr Lourens, and because he couldn't explain to me why money was missing when he resigned I accepted and he left.  There was no more front company at the time.  For the two years that I kept the company it was run as a proper business.

MR VALLY: You also own Hazmat.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Yes.

MR VALLY: Now why would ostensibly front companies for the military allow a foreign national to become the majority shareholder?