Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-07

MR WILLS: It is true there that Brig Mzimela was I think the Station Commissioner of the KwaZulu Police station, sorry I think he was District Commissioner of the KwaZulu Police but he was stationed at eSikhawini at the stage that this hit squad was operating, is that correct?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And he knew what these people were up to?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: It is also true that Brig Matte was aware of these incidents that were going on?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is true.

MR WILLS: And the activities of the three I am referring to?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, it must have been known by these persons and I refer specifically now to the Police persons that I have mentioned, that is Matte and Mzimela, that eSikhawini at the time was suffering as a result of an enormous amount of violence?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Do you know of any instance when any authority in the IFP called any of the persons whom I represent, to sanction them and say no, you mustn't attack indiscriminately, you mustn't attack the ANC areas, you must only attack specific targets?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: No, I would be telling a lie, I don't know.

MR WILLS: Yes, because the truth is that the more they attacked the ANC, the more they were congratulated by those persons in senior positions in the IFP?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct, they used to be appreciated and praised for that deeds.

MR WILLS: My understanding is that the modus operandi of the hit squad that I represent, that is the eSikhawini hit squad, was it was multi-faceted, but there are two main areas of operation.  The one is that certain individual targets were identified and these targets would be communicated through Mkhize in fact, to the rest of the hit squad and then Mkhize would have the responsibility of deploying his hit squad in order to execute that operation?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct, yes.

MR WILLS: That was the one, and then the other one was the modus operandi of what I would phrase as just general terror, and that is that the hit squad would be asked to react to a certain event possibly and just go into an ANC area and make that ANC area realise that the IFP was strong, and that they mustn't, that people in that area mustn't mess with them?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And for this purpose, I mean,  obviously firearms, and murder and all kinds of violent means would be adopted?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: That was part as I see it, that formed part of the political strategy of the IFP to dominate certain areas?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct, yes.

MR WILLS: If the Committee will just bear with me - it wasn't only according to my instructions, the IFP and the KwaZulu Police that sanctioned these activities.  There were also other organisations that sanctioned these activities, and by that I refer specifically to the South African Police and the South African Defence Force.

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: I mean you have given evidence to the effect that the South African Defence Force provided all the training for you and the means of getting all the way to Caprivi?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: While I am on that point, you remember that Mr Mkhize was one of your trainees at Caprivi, do you confirm that?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And there are certain people in certain areas, certain Policemen in certain areas who used to assist in operations?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And to that extent I will refer to, I think you have mentioned him earlier, a person by the name of Van Vuuren in the Mpumalanga area?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Hlongwane also details certain Policemen who used to assist in his operations in the Wesselton area outside Ermelo.  Were you aware of the fact that certain Policemen were sympathetic to the activities of the IFP in that township?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: I see and I refer to page 223 of the record, of the bundle, that you make a statement there which is interesting to me because it confirms with what Mr Mkhize tells me.  He regarded himself more as a soldier after his Caprivi training that a Policeman?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You make the statement to the effect that there was military training and all the recruits regarded themselves as soldiers and not as Policemen?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You also make the statement at page 224, which again is important in the application of my applicants, of the persons that I represent, that the primary aim of the Caprivi training was the give Inkatha the capacity to launch attacks to wipe out all of those, opposed to them?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You have indicated how your own life would have been in jeopardy had you compromised any of the secrecy?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, isn't it also not so that a member of hit squad, if he decided after let's say the first operation, if he decided no, he didn't want to be a part of this any more, it was literally impossible for him to leave unless he ran the very real risk of himself being killed?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: It is one of those situations that once you are in this hit squad, there is nothing you can do, you have to stay.  If you try and leave ...

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And there are examples in fact of persons who tried to get out and were in fact killed?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: It is interesting to note as Mr Mkhize informed me that the code word for killing somebody, would you like to tell the Committee what that was?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: I would say a person who was trying to withdraw, there was this word that was known that he would ride the first bus.  And if it was said that he should be made to ride the first bus, it meant the person should be killed.

MR WILLS: Yes.  I see that you indicate that at page 228 of your affidavit.  It was quite interesting, Mr Mkhize indicated the same phrase to me.
	The other aspect which I want to cover briefly, which you mention in your affidavit which Mr Mkhize and Mr Mbambo and in fact Mr Hlongwane were involved in, was the training of other people.

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: As I understand this military structure, or military struggle, certain people received training like for example Mr Mkhize was trained in Caprivi and in Koeberg and at Mkuze camp and at various other camps, by various people, the SADF?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: The SAP at Koeberg?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And by Inkatha people at Mkuze camp?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: But the policy of the IFP was that these people must be transferred into various townships and they must gather loyal and staunch younger IFP persons and give them similar training?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: So when both Mr Mbambo and Mr Mkhize give evidence later to the effect that they were involved in setting up of another hit squad and specifically trained other persons and specifically people like Mkhana Lipo, Matenywa, Ben Mlambo, Lucky Mbuyasi, that these activities were done in the full knowledge and they were in fact part of the IFP policies at the time?

DALAQOLO WORDSWORTH LUTHULI: That is correct.