Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Mr Kgoathe.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you want to take a short break or could we continue?

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe we should break.  I'd hope we would be finished, but let us break and come back at 2H15.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

BEN KGOATHE: I am not sure whether I was a member of any organisation.  I always heard him talking of PAC.

RUSSELL ALLY: ... they said that the cause of death was bronchial pneumonia, was there any history of that with your father, those types of illnesses?

BEN KGOATHE: I don't know of any sickness that attacked my father, really.   I do know the fact that he was going to work, even at work he was fine, there was nothing wrong with him, he didn't have any problems.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sergeant Geldenhuys whose evidence is in the inquest is he still alive?

BEN KGOATHE: I don't know whether he is still alive.

RUSSELL ALLY: How would the Commission be able to trace him do you think?

BEN KGOATHE: I think the Commission can find or search for his whereabouts at Silverton where I met him.

RUSSELL ALLY: The lawyer who handled the inquest was Joel
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Carlson who also handled the inquest of Lenkoe, have you had any contact with him since?

BEN KGOATHE: Since his leaving the country I have never come to meet him again.  He slipped out of the country and it was said he is in America.

RUSSELL ALLY: Just the last question.  In your statement you speak about property which your father had, could you tell us about this property and what you hoped to be done about this?

BEN KGOATHE: Property?

RUSSELL ALLY: You say, yes, that you lost property.

BEN KGOATHE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you tell us a bit about that?

BEN KGOATHE: His watch got lost in the hands of the police and some of the goods he bought in Johannesburg that was supposed to be transported to home.  We don't know what happened to those goods because they never arrived at home.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Any questions?  Dr Randera.

UNKNOWN: Ben can you just, from the statement you said that your father went into the H F Verwoerd Hospital on the 22nd of January and that your family were notified on the 4th of February that your father had passed away.  Did you or any other family member visit him in this period between going into hospital and his actual death?  If so did your father share what had happened to him during his imprisonment with you?  And also what were the conditions in the hospital itself on those visits?

BEN KGOATHE: I saw my father on the 18th of February 1969 at the Silverton Police Station, it was a Saturday.  I also saw him again on the 19th of February 1969, it was a Sunday.  JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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That's why I asked Sergeant Geldenhuys that they should send my father to the hospital.  Since then the police didn't tell us where he was sent.  The information that we saw in the newspapers was that he was, by the time he sent to the hospital, he wasn't sent on the 19th and on the 20th, apparently he was sent to the hospital on the 21st, 1969, 21st of February 1969, that's all I know about the hospital.  But otherwise at the hospital we didn't go.  When we got the information that he was at the hospital we were not able to visit him.  But on the 5th of February the police came to fetch us to come and identify his body.  They also told my mother that he died on the 4th, and it was Wednesday.

UNKNOWN: The inquest that was held that you were invited to, was there a post mortem that was done on your father?

BEN KGOATHE: The post mortem that was conducted was conducted by the district surgeon, that was the information given by Dr Joubert during the inquest, an explanation of how he died.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: You said when you went to Silverton Police Station to see your father for the first time he said he slipped on soap, and Sergeant Geldenhuys said he must speak the truth and explain how he incurred those injuries.  How did it come about that it was the police who said that he must tell the truth and again it was Mr Geldenhuys, why wasn't he a witness in the inquest to give evidence?

BEN KGOATHE: The issue that Sergeant Geldenhuys to say to my father he must tell the truth, he shouldn't say he slipped on soap, Geldenhuys was surprised about it.  It's only then that I realised that Sergeant Geldenhuys didn't like the treatment that was given to my father.  At
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Silverton Police Station, that's where he was kept and he was transferred on the 16th of January 1969 to go to Compol for the interrogation and torture and that's where everything happened.  They took him on the 16th.  This interrogation it seems like it happened the whole day of the 16th up to midnight of the 16th, and the following morning again on the 17th from six o'clock.  And it was on a Friday on the 17th that they took him back to Silverton Police Station when he was already in that condition.  Then I went to see him on the 18th, a Saturday, the following day.  I forgot the other question.

MS SEROKE: Didn't you ask him to be a witness in this inquest because he already had information?

BEN KGOATHE: He was there Sergeant Geldenhuys and he testified in the inquest and he explained exactly that my father was in Silverton and he arrived with pains.  He was complaining now and then that he had pains.  Dr Joubert and Dr Pieterse were doctors organised by him and magistrate Jordaan to come and see the deceased.  Sergeant Geldenhuys was SAP and the others were just a special branch, that's how we used to call them in the past.  That's how we used to call them in the past.

MS MKHIZE: Mr Kgoathe you mentioned quite a number of people who died more-or-less at the same time, it might be helpful to the Commission to get a clearer picture as to the circumstances surrounding the said deaths.  So if you can just tell us as to how to get more information about the deaths that you referred to which occurred more-or-less on the same day.

BEN KGOATHE: The list that I gave of the people who had been detained it was the group that my father was arrested
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with, they were in the same case.  That case was taken to court at Old Synagogue and it is in Pretoria, that was the same team.  My father was with them, he was accused no.3. I attended the court hearing and that's where I heard he was accused no.3 in that group.  The same team were working with them here in Johannesburg.  They used to have community meetings about the running of their community at Hebron.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much.  I hear Sergeant Geldenhuys' name being mentioned and I think he was really prepared to be a witness, he wanted to speak the truth.   If we have been accusing them really, one out of the accused we have to tell the public as much as you have indicated, and the doctor as well.  They really spoke the truth, just the plain truth.  We thank you and we will try as much as we can to work hand-in-hand with you so that we can come and tell you the truth, where the truth really lies.

BEN KGOATHE: Before I forget thank the Honourable Mrs Helen Suzman for the support she gave my mother during that turmoil, and the South African Council of Churches on the same thing.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you as well that you are in a position to say thank you to the people who really helped you.  We thank you very much.