Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-28

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Can you repeat your questions please Sir?

MR HOLE: Yes thank you I will try. What I was asking the applicant was what the role of the headmen was in assisting people or in getting people to receive old age or disability grants?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Their role as headmen was or what they used to do was to make people bring ADM membership cards so that they could get their pensions.

MR HOLE: Tell the committee Sir was any structure formed in that place of headmen at the stage that they were removed from office?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes, the ADM was formed at that time - They formed an organisation within the community for the community.

MR HOLE: And do you know of any clashes that took place now between the headmen and the residents associations?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

MR HOLE: Were there any deaths that took place as a result of this?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: No, not anybody died.

MR HOLE: Do you know of any acts of violence that were perpetrated by one party against the other?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: What would happen is that the headmen were looked after by the security police. The security police would beat up the residents. The residents would then have to leave that particular community.

MR HOLE: In other words Sir there was a state of war between now the headmen and the residents associations?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: That is correct.

MR HOLE: Mr Maseti, the deceased in this matter was he a headman?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

MR HOLE: Was he a headman in your village?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes that is correct.

MR HOLE: Was there another headman before him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes there was.

MR HOLE: And what happened to him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: He was told by the community to give up his headmanship and that is what he did.

MR HOLE: Do you know what his name was?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: It was Mr Mbetsha.

MR HOLE: And you have mentioned that the house of Mr Maseti was raised to the ground by fire on the 27th or 28th of September 1992?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: That is correct.

MR HOLE: And you mentioned that you took no part in this?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: That is correct.

MR HOLE: We know from the papers say that Mr Maseti was killed on the 28th of September 1992?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

MR HOLE: Can you tell us what happened on that day?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: On the 28th as the youth of the African National Congress we arose and we went and tried to tell him that he must stop what he was doing or he must get out of the area altogether. What then happened is that when we went to look for him we did not find him. When he caught sight of us he then tried to run away to another village. We ran after him, we had stones and threw these stones at him.

MR HOLE: Did you yourself throw any stones?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes I did.

MR HOLE: Please proceed?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: I threw about two stones at him. What I am not sure of is whether these stones that I threw got him. There was a group of young people from the community. I was amongst the youth. There was a group just ahead of me and I was in the second group. When I got there, there was fire. That was the end of him. I then walked back home.

MR HOLE: We know Sir that this man was killed by this mob who pursued him. Now you say you threw about stones at him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Correct.

MR HOLE: But you do not know whether they struck him or not?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes because there were a whole lot of stones being hurled at him. I cannot exactly say that the stones that I threw struck him.

MR HOLE: Yes but you do concede Sir that he died as a result of injuries sustained as a result of these stones and other mezas that were hurled at him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes I admit that.

MR HOLE: And you associated yourself fully with the intentions of the people who killed him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Correct.

MR HOLE: And there was an inquest after the death of the deceased?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

MR HOLE: And you were implicated by Tokozi Lemaseti, a sister to the deceased as being the person who fell the deceased before the group assaulted him?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: That is not correct.

MR HOLE: At the inquest you denied being at the scene where these things took place?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes I did.

MR HOLE: Can you explain to the committee why you now want to say you were present and you did some part?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: The reason why I come here today is because at that time there was no Truth Commission that as a person can come forward and tell the truth. Another reason why I could not admit this at the inquest thereof is because I was sure to be oppressed at that inquest and be arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on. At the inquest there was a finding that favoured you, not so?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Please repeat your question?

CHAIRPERSON: The inquest finding favoured you?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And as things stand now it does not seem like there is any prospect of criminal charges being brought against you. And the inquest finding has rather settled the matter?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why is it that you have brought this application?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: It is because I was part of the youth that killed him at the time. I was part of the group. This is why I have come here to apply for amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes carry on?

MR HOLE: Yes thank you I have nothing further Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Sir. Mr Makapela was Mr Maki also a member of the ANC?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes that is correct.

MR MAPOMA: Was he also in the group that chased Mr Maseti?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: You say that you threw some stones at Mr Maseti then when you arrived he was already being burnt. How do you explain that, throwing a stone at him, didn't you strike a group that was in front of you? Can you just explain that?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: No I did not strike anybody in front of me because I projected the stone to him at the front as I threw it.

MR MAPOMA: Are you saying you were not involved in the actual burning of Mr Maseti?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: When I got to him there was smoke already.

MR MAPOMA: Now this incident took place on the month when there was the Bisho massacre, do you agree with me?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Correct.

MR MAPOMA: Was this incident not fuelled by the Bisho massacre in any way perhaps?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: This was triggered by the Bisho massacre.

MR MAPOMA: So in a way was it in a way retaliation to the Bisho massacre where people were killed by the government led by Brigadier Xhozo?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Correct.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Sir, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any re-examination?

MR HOLE: No, none thank you Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Makapela you say Maki was also present, took part. What exactly did he do?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: He was part of the group. I do not know whether he did throw stones or whether he did get to this person. However he was part of the youth group that was there.

MR SIBANYONI: In his application he says he took part in chasing the deceased. That is also what you know to have happened?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes that is so.

MR SIBANYONI: What took place first, is it the Bisho massacre or the killing of the deceased?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: The Bisho massacre was first.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you no further questions Mr Chairperson.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Makapela where is your home at the moment?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: I stay in Alice, Apagumashe location.

ADV POTGIETER: Have you got a specific address?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: Yes I have an address that I usually use.

ADV POTGIETER: Alright perhaps you must tell us what address do you use?

ZUKO ZUKILE MAKAPELA: I receive my letters and other mail through using my father's address at work.