Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

MS SEROKE: Those who collected their shells later on and put them in their pockets, as you say, were they black police or white police?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: These were white policemen.  Those were the police who took me to Midrand Police Station.

MS SEROKE: Thank you Antoinette.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Antoinette, I'll ask other commissioners to ask you further questions of clarification.  Yes Ms Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: Antoinette, when you say that you were running to Umfuleni and that there were lots of other people running as well, do you have any kind of idea of how many people TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
16 MUNDAU
were running in the same direction?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: People who were running with us, there were many but our homes were so closely knit, so we started running and were many and some other men also came running and they told us that we have to turn back to the house because they were not looking for women, they were looking for men, so we had to turn back to the house. I couldn't exactly count them because we just woke up from a sleep and we were not in our full senses and I couldn't count them very well. And as people were afraid, people were running away from the place and they never came back to that community.

YASMINE SOOKA: So they told you to turn back, were they the men who were  asking for people to attack or were they simply men who were saying to you, you should return to your home?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: These men, I couldn't recognise them. But I think they were trying to help us because they were also running, because they ran past us and they said to us we have to turn back because the children will be shot.  We were not sure whether they were betraying us to go back so that we can be killed, so I'm not sure whether they were helping us.

YASMINE SOOKA: The language that your attackers spoke, do you remember that?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: They were speaking Zulu.

MS SEROKE: And when you were taken to Midrand Police Station, can you, do you know whether it was the police or was it soldiers who took you to Midrand Police Station?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: The people who took me to Midrand were police

YASMINE SOOKA: And what happened when you got to Midrand Police Station?
TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
17 MUNDAU

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: When we arrived at the police station they asked me which language do I speak, I told them I speak Tsonga, and they allocated one man to me who could speak Tsonga and I gave him my statement.

YASMINE SOOKA: When your statement was taken, was there anyone else from Ivory Park who had been part of this attack who was also making a statement?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: Yes there was one person who was my neighbour, who also went to give a statement.  I told the neighbour that we have to come before the Commission. I don't know as to what might have prevented her from coming before us.

YASMINE SOOKA: After you had reported the matter to the police station, were you ever contacted by any member of the Midrand Police Station in any of the time period after the attack?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: Nobody came to talk to me.

YASMINE SOOKA: When everybody was buried who had been killed in this attack, was the burial a mass funeral or was it individually done?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: We buried them individually.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mentioned that your husband was a member of the community organisation.  What were they involved in?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: He was there to oversee about the community's well being.

YASMINE SOOKA: What issues were they involved in at the time?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: He wasn't doing anything else except that he was elected by the community to form a committee to run the day to day process of the community.  He wasn't involved in any political activities.

YASMINE SOOKA: But was he running Ivory Park and its affairs?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: Yes.
TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
18 MUNDAU

YASMINE SOOKA: Was he the one who decided who would get a shack and who wouldn't?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: No he wasn't the deciding person and even himself, he also had to be allocated a shack.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long had you been living in Ivory Park?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: You mean from the time we were shot at or since from the beginning we moved in?

YASMINE SOOKA: Since from the beginning.

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: We arrived there in 1991 and were shot in 1992.

YASMINE SOOKA: Where did you come from before this?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: We're from Oakmall location, because there
was some violence there.

YASMINE SOOKA: What did the committee make decisions on?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: They have to oversee the people in the community.  If they have problems they will come to him and explain.

YASMINE SOOKA: For instance, if there was a dispute, would he decide how the dispute would be handled?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: I will say yes but I'm not sure what kind of matters came before him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Who did the people in Ivory Park pay rent to?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: At the offices.

YASMINE SOOKA: And was the committee involved in that at all?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: No the committee was not involved in the rent payment.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was there any suspicion about who the attackers were and where they were coming from?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: We couldn't precisely recognise them or say that we thought they belonged to any particular political group because it just happened.
TEMBISA  HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
19 MUNDAU

YASMINE SOOKA: But what were the rumours about who they were?

ANTOINETTE MUNDAU: No we didn't hear any rumours.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, we will ask you to remain seated as we proceed to the next witness who will also give related evidence.