Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-23

MR DE KLERK: Count 20, that is also a count of attempted murder, you were not convicted.  The same date, the 13th of September 1991 near Ngcwangusheni area, iZingolweni, that you tried to kill a Wilson Mdundeni Nkonyeni.  Do you know anything about that incident?

MR NGCOBO: No I know nothing about that.  I do not even know that person or any family in Ngcwangusheni.

MR DE KLERK: Then there was a count 21, also a count of murder.   You were not convicted of that count of murder.  The 16th of October 1991, near Shobashobane, iZingolweni you killed Sipho Shadrack Ngcobo.  Do you know anything about that matter?

MR NGCOBO: I know nothing about that.  I did not even know Sipho Ngcobo.

MR DE KLERK: Then there was a count 22 of attempted murder.  You were also found not guilty on that charge, the 16th of October at Shobashobane.  It was said and alleged that you intentionally attempted to kill Florence Ngcobo.  Do you know anything about it?

MR NGCOBO: As I said before, I never touched any woman.  I also did not do anything to her husband.  There was no reason why I would kill that person.

MR DE KLERK: Then there was a count 23, also a count of murder.  On the 22nd of October 1991 near Mndeni area, iZingolweni that you killed Deleka Christopher Ngidi, also known as Striker Mkhize.

MR NGCOBO: On that day, I had gone to see my attorney in Port Shepstone town.  I was only told about what happened.  The court, however, decided to convict me even when I denied any knowledge about this matte.  It is true that Steleka was also one of my fiercest enemies because he was Mshikashika's brother, the person I mentioned before.  I would have done a terrible thing to him if I had met him, because he would have done the same to me.  But we never met.  I did not kill him.

MR DE KLERK: Count 24 also a count of murder on the same day, the 22nd of October 1991, the Mndeni area, iZingolweni.  You were charged and also convicted that you killed Thabani Ndlovu.  Do you know anything about that?

MR NGCOBO: Thabani was Striker's brother-in-law.  They were known as killers.  As I said before, on that day I had gone to Port Shepstone to see my attorney and I did  not kill them.  I was only told that they had been murdered.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the name of the person that you say Thabani Ndlovu was with?

MR NGCOBO: No.  I know nothing about that.  They were my big enemies, but I never got them.  I wanted them, however, as much as they wanted me.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR DE KLERK: The last count, was the same day, attempted murder, 22nd of October 1991 and that Mndeni area.  You were charged that you attempted to kill Zwelaki Madonsela Mendu and Mfilela Elias Shange, do you know anything about that?

MR NGCOBO: No. I know nothing about their deaths. As I said before, I was looking for them as much as they were looking for me, but I did not get a chance to find them.

MR DE KLERK: After this criminal trial was finalised, did this matter ever go on appeal?

MR NGCOBO: Yes.  I made an appeal.  This case you have just mentioned...  When the outcome of my appeal was announced, certain convictions, I do not remember whether they were four or five, were set aside.  My counsel during that trial, Mr Lingelfielder, might shed a light on that.  I was in the death row, you know, and one cannot be expected to comprehend everything that was happening then.

MR DE KLERK: You received the death penalty, several death penalties and you then went to Pretoria, is that correct, to the Pretoria Central Prison?

MR NGCOBO: Yes.  I was sentenced to six death sentences and 36 years.  When the outcome of the appeal came back, I was told that certain convictions were set aside, but nothing was said about the sentences.  I am still serving those sentences.

MR DE KLERK: Is it correct that you were on death row for two years in Pretoria?

MR NGCOBO: Yes.

MR DE KLERK: Is it correct that while you are on death row, you were alone in one prison cell, you are kept alone?

MR NGCOBO: Yes.

MR DE KLERK: While you were waiting to be executed, did you think about what happened?

MR NGCOBO: I thought about all the crimes I had committed and realised how serious they were.  I told myself that these things have already happened, but I thought that I had to sit down with the people I had done wrong to, and asked them to forgive me.  I thought that there is nothing that I would be able to do if they do not want to pardon me, and I would accept the sentences meted on me and realise that I am reaping what I have sown.  I no longer want to do these things because I realised that they were bad.

MR DE KLERK: Did you write a poem there in that cell in Pretoria?

MR NGCOBO: Yes, I did write a poem when I was in the death row.  I was reminiscing about where I was coming from.  This poem brought some bitterness in me, although I did not put everything as it happened on me.  I made it to sound nice at certain places, about some of the things that were actually not true.  I was just trying to write a poem.

MR DE KLERK: Do you have that poem here today?

MR NGCOBO: Yes, I do.

MR DE KLERK: Will you please read it out for us.

MR NGCOBO: Yes (poem read) Although I was trained, I just made it up in the poem that I was trained at Emandleni.

MR DE KLERK: It is written in English, that is correct?

MR NGCOBO: Poem title, who I am.  I am the IFP, I am the soldier who I am.  I am well trained.  I am the son of Goodwill (The King of the Zulus.)  Who I am, I am an incredible, you can't find me anywhere, but I am there for protection at iZingolweni.  They know me.  At Ulundi they saw me.  Everywhere they know me, who I am.  I am the one who was trained, trained at eMandleni at uMfolozi.(This place where I say I was trained at is not true. It is true that I was trained but not at this mentioned place).

MR DE KLERK: Please go ahead.

MR NGCOBO: When I am back, I spoke the misunderstood language.  They said it is isigagaga, but I simply said ga-ga-ga.  The answer was the G3.  Who I am, I am the one who is fighting for my land.  I am the one who was jailed for the truth.  I am the one who was jailed for my friends.  I am the one who was jailed for the death of my loving mother.  I am the one who was tried to be killed every moment of my life.  I am the physician of human life, I am the scientist of human training, I am the biologist of human thoughts.  I am the fighter fighting for my eternal life.  Who I am.  Now you know who I am, for I am here for you my friends.  Yes, I am here for my life to surrender.  In death, pain I surrender.  If I die for my rights, who I am.
	My soul will cry no more, for though hearts are free to be stopped, for my eyes are free to be closed, for my feet will walk no more, but if my present is for the struggle of letting my friends in the hands of Buthelezi, who I am.  Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters, I remember the spirit of  Gqozo, who said the blood will heal the broken soul.  Who I am.  Some call me uklova, for though that is true, I am the son of the free area.
	I am the son of liberation.  (That is all).

MR DE KLERK: A lot has happened in your life.  Are you sorry for what you have done with hindsight now?