Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-22

ADV SIGODI: Were you not involved or were you not present when the discussion was being held as to where the roadblock would be held? Were you not present?

MR MEIRING: No I was not present.

ADV SIGODI: The other question that I want to ask you is, I just want to ask you a hypothetical question. If you stopped a vehicle and there were 3 ANC members and 2 IFP members what would you have done?

MR MEIRING: It would not have been my decision. Commander Visser and Martin, this was their decision.

ADV SIGODI: The way you understood the whole operation, in your opinion I just want to know what would you have done as that group if you had found partly ANC and partly IFP motor vehicle?

MR MEIRING: I can honestly not answer that question. I was not in control of the roadblock and the happenings there. I just put up the roadblock. I was not the commanding officer that evening.

CHAIRPERSON: When did you learn for the first time that there was to be a roadblock?

MR MEIRING: The first time I heard of the roadblock was when we went to Martin's house and we picked up the equipment for the roadblock.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there some discussion that followed that decision?

MR MEIRING: No they just told us that we would put up a roadblock and we got into the vehicles and we drove off.

CHAIRPERSON: While you were at the house of accused number 8 at that stage no mention was made of a roadblock?

MR MEIRING: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Number 1 told the court that the group drank neat whisky that is now at the house of number 8.

MR MEIRING: Mr Chairperson he might have drank neat whisky. I did not drink neat whisky. I had a small glass of whisky with water.

CHAIRPERSON: He speaks about the group?

MR MEIRING: No I can testify only to what I drank and as I have said I had a glass of whisky with water.

CHAIRPERSON: You were promoted by Mr Martin?

MR MEIRING: That is correct. I was promoted by Mr Martin.

CHAIRPERSON: But it is the same person who had committed these offences with you?

MR MEIRING: That is correct. He is also my senior in the hierarchy of the AWB.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the value of such a promotion, a promotion that you have been given by somebody who committed the same offence with you and who is in prison with you for something that you did together? What is the value there of?

MR MEIRING: In prison promotion has no value because I was officer of training. What type of training can I give in prison? Personally for myself the Commander gave me the promotion.

CHAIRPERSON: Now why does he give you a promotion which has no value?

MR MEIRING: I cannot answer that question. You will have to ask him.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you ask him. I mean he gave you?

MR MEIRING: No I did not ask him. I just accepted it.

CHAIRPERSON: Actually what I wanted to find out from you was whether this promotion was sanctioned by the people in higher offices in the AWB? This is actually what I wanted to find out from you?

MR MEIRING: I do not know. I did not ask him.

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence you said that the people you were in the Sentra, when they saw I think 2 people there, the Sentra stopped and then they went out. And you said that they said they wanted to go and talk to the black people there.

MR MEIRING: No they did not say they want to talk to the black people. They just got out, went to the black people and talked to them and assaulted them.

CHAIRPERSON: I must have misheard you then because I thought you said they were going to talk to them.

MR MEIRING: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Meiring when you were promoted in prison your co-accused Commander Kloppers and Commander Martin, were they also promoted?

MR MEIRING: Yes. Commander Kloppers was promoted to Brigadier, Badenhorst was promoted by Eugene Terreblanche in prison promoted to Lieutenant. And Commander Martin was promoted to Colonel.

MR PRINSLOO: Who promoted them, Commander Kloppers and Martin? Who promoted them, do you know?

MR MEIRING: If we look at the hierarchy the only person who could do this is General Oelofse.

MR PRINSLOO: And normally with regard to promotions the hierarchy would make the recommendation or Martin would receive instructions to promote you?

MR MEIRING: Yes that was the normal procedure.

MR PRINSLOO: Are you aware that General Oelofse was arrested and charged regarding bomb explosions which had taken place in the Krugersdorp area during December 1993?

MR MEIRING: Yes I am aware of that. General Jappie Oelofse was detained along with us in terms of Section 29 and he was also detained in the Johannesburg prison in the same section as us.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know that he was prosecuted in the Johannesburg Regional Court on various charges with regard to bomb explosions?

MR MEIRING: Yes I do know about it, him and the other members who were involved.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: You may step down.

MR MEIRING: Thank you Chair.

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