Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietersburg — 1996-07-17

RUSSELL ALLY: ...(indistinct) taken away?

MR NCHABELENG: Because there was no paper inside the letter there was just a blank paper, that's how we established it was a letter bomb.  There was no signature, there was nothing to trace on.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was this given to a lawyer or taken to the police to actually say that this letter had been sent to you or your father and this was a letter bomb?

MR NCHABELENG: We put this in our statement, that there were no  results inside the envelope.

RUSSELL ALLY: After this incident with this letter bomb, the police came and fetched your father, is that true?

MR NCHABELENG: After there was a meeting in 1986, after the meeting where the youth called the principal to ask him about the letter bomb, they took my father and the same day the principal left his house.

RUSSELL ALLY: It's '85 that you're speaking about, there was a lot of political activity taking place all over the country and especially in the Northern Province, and we know that your father was the president of the UDF in the Northern Province.  Now some of this activity taking place there related to accusations around witches and witchcraft.  Can you just tell us a little bit about that political context and what was actually happening, some of the conflicts which were taking place?

MR NCHABELENG: What I've just said, even what I've mentioned on my statement, is that I was never involved with the people who were burning people, and my father was a president of the UDF, but we also had a local organisation.  He also called the leadership and he explained to them that they need to distance themselves from those who are burning people, and need to talk to them if they can and explain to them that they don't need to burn people. If they are affiliated to the UDF they must know that the UDF is against burning people. They did not want the UDF to be involved with people who did such things.

MRS NCHABELENG: I would like to say more about this thing concerning witches.  They said Maurice was involved in burning witches and they said that he was accused number 1.  We were surprise because Maurice was the youngest of them all and he was called accused number 1. Maurice was not found guilty by the court.  All these cases, five of them, he was accused no 1 but he was not found guilty. They asked Maurice to go and point out witches to them, and he said that he didn't know any witches.  They showed him muti and he said he didn't know all those muti's.  When they brought him home he looked confused and one boy said it's because they gave him medicine, umuti to see which is, and then my husband said we must take him to a clinic and then we gave him milk and he vomited before getting better.
 I would like to say at the time when my husband was arrested, and when he was sent to Robben Island, we were left in my house, Maurice was arrested, Lizzie was arrested and I had a small baby at that time and I was arrested only for a day, and the next day they took me to a hidden place.  Lizzie had a child and her child didn't survive.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mrs Gertrude, you were trying to show us how you were arrested.

MRS NCHABELENG: From 1963 when my husband was arrested and it was called the 90 Day Detention, my husband kept on telling me that he was going to be arrested, and he was arrested.  When they first came to arrest him he wasn't at the house, he went to buy a newspaper and when he came back they saw him, because the police knew him very well, they saw him from far.

THOMAS MANTHATA: From there, when he was sent to prison on Robben island  were you in Selforth?

MRS NCHABELENG: No we were in Attridgeville.  They locked my house and I was suffering with my kids, we didn't have a house to stay, we were asking people to give us accommodation.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I understand that Mrs, what I want to know is that they chased you from Attridgeville and you came here to Sekukune?

MRS NCHABELENG: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: People from Apele, when they were looking at him, how did they see him?

MRS NCHABELENG: They thought he wanted to be a chief or a king.  They thought he wanted to rule them.  He didn't have any intentions of becoming a king.  When he became a UDF president he told the people that to kill witches wasn't the UDF's aim and goal.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Those who were burning and killing people, did they belong to the UDF or other organisations?  Do you really understand my question?  My question is, those people who were burning people, was he against them and was he against these people?

MR NCHABELENG: Yes he was telling people that it wasn't the UDF's policy to do that and he was explaining to them that UDF policy was against burning people, we need people and now if you're killing people,  where are we going to get people?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Peter Nchabeleng, his fight had a purpose?

MR NCHABELENG: Yes it had a purpose.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I don't have more questions?

MR NCHABELENG: He as fighting against the law.

RUSSELL ALLY: Just tell us what type of standing your husband had in the community?  How was he seen by the community?  Was he respected, had a lot of support?

MRS NCHABELENG: They respected him, because when he died they came to my house, they brought flowers, woods, they showed their respect in so many ways.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Mrs Nchabeleng and other members of your family for coaming forward.  There certain statements in what you've given to us in your statement which we will certainly try and follow up, especially we know that the lawyers have copies of the inquest reports, and we know that certain policemen were actually found responsible but we need to know what happened further with the cases, thank you very much.
 Because we have almost gone to 1 o'clock , I suggest that we actually break for lunch now, but come back 10 minutes earlier, so instead of coming back at 2, let's come back at 10 to 2.
 Just an announcement quickly.  If there people present who want to make statements, if they believe that they have also been victims of gross human rights violations, we do have statement takers here from the Truth Commission, you can contact any one of the officials who see here from the Truth Commission to make statements.  Also please, when people leave for lunch, please leave the head sets behind, don't take them with you, and when we come back the headsets can be used again.  Thank you very much.
HEARING ADJOURNS.