Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

WITNESS: I was not present at that time, I had gone to Ntuzuma, but my child went away from me and went to the grandmother's place in Chesterville, because every vacation they visit their grandmother at Chesterville.  And I heard whilst I was in Ntuzuma that the children had died in Chesterville, but I didn't have any details as to what had happened.  But according to what they told me they said SB police officers came, and they said they were looking for a certain boy.  And they were given a permit to get into the residential area and they went to street No 16, but I don't know whether they got whoever they were looking for.  But later on I was told that the very same police who went to street No 16 to look for a certain person got to the youths, and they told my son to go and look for other youths.  And after looking for those youths he must bring them with to them, and they must go to a certain shack.  And they wanted to take them to be trained as soldiers, and they told him to recruit quite a number of youths, because at that time it was very difficult for the youth to go out of the country and be trained as soldiers.  My son went away to look for other youths to no avail.  They were told to get into a certain house at No 16.  They went there.  I think they were about five.  They went into this shack, and when they got to the shack which was pointed out by the police they were shown guns.  That is according to what was related to me, because I was not there.  And in the street there was a certain kombi with dark windows, and it was also dark, it was in the evening.  Most of the lights in the houses were off because it was late at night.  The only people who were not asleep were the ones who were staying in the shack that my son went to.  There were certain vans waiting at a certain bridge next to a certain village called Masixanga, and the police as well as the SB were waiting there, as well as at the cemetery, and vans were lining the street.  The youths went into this shack, and some other police who belonged to the SB, as well as one female - there were two females.  They went into this particular shack and they were shown guns.  They were asked as to whether they knew what these were, and the children said they didn't know anything about guns.  And they were asked whether they wanted to skip the country.  The youths said they wanted to skip the country, and the policemen said to them they should wait there.  As they were still waiting there for the policemen to come back they shot them through the windows of the shack, and everybody else inside was shot.  One of the youths escaped through the window.  He was shot in the knee.  The other one was stampeded upon, and my son was just in pieces.  And people were running away because they did not know what was happening, and they did not know where the SBs were.  That is the story that I got, and the following morning the boy on which they had fallen was still alive, and he screamed from beneath the other bodies.  And police from Cato Manor came and they retrieved the bodies that were there.  There were about four.  That is all I know about this incident.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Mthembu, thank you very much.  I am sure you have relived this story many a time.  Can you please tell us, because you were not there, who related the story to you?  Was it one person?

WITNESS:   I came the following morning because somebody rang me.  He phoned me and told me that this had happened.  Then I went there to have a look.  Then I came back home thereafter.  When they were buried I was - when they were taken to the mortuary I was also there.  Even when the children were buried I was there already.  Then from there we went to court.  I was also present at court.  I did attend it.

DR RANDERA: I just want to repeat what I said earlier on.  You were not there at the time.  Can you just tell us who told you the story?  Was it one person or many people?

WITNESS:   I was told when I got to street No 16, as well as how the police went away I was told.  I was told by the survivors.  There were two survivors who related the story to me.

DR RANDERA: Can you remember the names of these survivors?

WITNESS:  One is present today.  Probably he is going to appear and talk on his own behalf.

DR RANDERA: And the other person?

WITNESS:   I don't know about the other one.  I don't know where he is, but his parents are still staying at street No 16.

DR RANDERA: (Inaudible) ... we'll come back to that for that information.  Can you tell us something about Joseph himself?  Oh, sorry, Russell, is that right - Russell himself.  What was his involvement?  Was he working at the time or was he at school?

WITNESS:   He was attending school and he was doing standard nine at that time.

DR RANDERA: And you say four other people were killed, is that right, in that ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   That is correct, he was the fourth one.  The other ones were staying at street No 16.

DR RANDERA: Can you tell me whether there was a post-mortem or an inquest?

WITNESS:   We were told that they had been killed by the boers.

MR MTHEMBU: Can I say something?

COMMISSIONER: You must be sworn in if you want to add something to what your mother has said.

MR MTHEMBU: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Just restrict your remarks to - or please just add to what you feel your mother has not mentioned.  We don't have time to hear another full piece of evidence.

WITNESS:   I will just add onto what my mother has said.  The police were SB police.  There was a case.  We were told that these police were working for the Government.  And at court they were not showing their faces, their faces were covered.  So we could not identify them.  My grandfather also asked as to why they could not be identified because they were killing people, and he was chucked out of the court.  He was told to go out.  Up until now we never saw them or never could identify them.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much for that.  Mrs Mthembu, it says here that there was a death certificate.  Can you tell us what was written on the death certificate?

WITNESS:  (No reply)

DR RANDERA: Can I repeat the question?

WITNESS:   You mean the death certificate of my son.  They had written that he had died due to gunshots, because he had been shot all over the body.  And some of the empty cartridges were taken by the police.  All of them were killed by gunshots.

DR RANDERA: My last question is, can you tell us something about yourself?  Are you married?  How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I am married.  I had five children, and one has died.  I am left with four now.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Mthembu, thank you, both of you, very much for coming in today.  The incident that you have described to us is a famous one in the history of Chesterville, and many of us here know about it.  It was a classic set-up or a trap which was laid by the police for those young boys, and as far as we know, the information that we have is that the whole episode, the whole incident was arranged - organised by members of the Vlakplaas unit in the Transvaal together with members of the Security Branch here in Durban.  These boys were murdered in a situation where it was impossible for them to have even defended themselves in any manner.  And, as your son says, the inquest Magistrate - I recall from the time - he allowed the witnesses to give evidence completely in camera, with their faces covered, and this should never ever have been allowed.
We are glad that the two of you were able to be here today, and that you were able to be supported by your son, and we hope it was of some comfort to you.  We will do everything possible to find out why this happened, and if necessary to call those people who caused this to happen to come before this Commission so that they can explain themselves.  So we thank you very much for coming in today.  Thank you.