Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-13

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, you can put a hypothetics to a witness on the basis of what you intend to argue, for his comment and he can say "I think you're talking nonsense" or he can say "I think ..."  He can say "I've told you I don't think there's a five point plan, but I agree with you that it doesn't seem to make sense that this monkey foetus would be hung up in isolation." ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but then he can also say "I don't agree with you", and whatever the answer is, isn't going to weaken your argument at the end of the day, so it's sort of irrelevant.  And time is of the essence here.

UNKNOWN: Alright.
	Let's deal with the project against Gavin Evans.  Can you go to page 117, paragraph 58.

MR MARTINI: Bundle A?

UNKNOWN: Bundle A.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what page was that, Mr Kahanovitz?

UNKNOWN: 117, paragraph 58, and could I ask Mr van Zyl just to read paragraph 58 into the record.
MR VAN ZYL
"During March 1989, myself, the Regional Manager and Maree, met in a flat in Jo'burg and I was told that there was an in-house held on a project that would involved the elimination of a man by the name of Gavin Evans.  He would be robbed at knife-point and I was told to organise with Peaches to come to Jo'burg from the Cape and also to bring a person with him, in order to execute the project.  Peaches came to Jo'burg and I spoke to him in a hotel and I told him that Evans would be the target of the project.  The project was not my project, but the project of Maree, and he continued with the project.  I gave Peaches  R2 000 in cash to cover their costs.  It was agreed that Peaches would receive R5 000 to execute the project.  Later it appeared that the information regarding the address of Evans was not correct and that he could not be found.  I conveyed this to the Managing Director and he said that the project could not continue.  The project was then halted."

UNKNOWN: Are you still of the view that your intended target name was Michael Evans?

MR VAN ZYL: Michael Gavin Evans, yes.

UNKNOWN: Are you aware that Mr Evans, Gavin Evans has a brother called Michael Evans?

MR VAN ZYL: It could be.

UNKNOWN: I'm just trying to work out who it was that you wanted to kill, because Michael Evans and Gavin Evans were both political activists at the time, were both involved in End Conscription Campaign activities and so on and so forth.  I just want to know from you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Kahanovitz, is there a person called Michael Gavin Evans?  Is Michael's middle name Gavin perhaps?   Thank you.

MR MARTINI: Well how do we test this, Mr Chairperson, do we accept Mr Kahanovitz's word that this is the - is he going to call the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: He's representing the family.

UNKNOWN: If it's necessary I'll call a witness.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I'm sure we can accept - I mean you are representing the family, so ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Well if Mr Martini has any doubt, I would be happy to call Michael Evans ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I don't think that will be necessary.

UNKNOWN: He's sitting over there.

CHAIRPERSON: But Michael Evans and Gavin Evans are two brothers and there's no Michael Gavin Evans?

UNKNOWN: His name is Michael John Reid Evans and Gavin's second name is - sorry, it's Gavin Mark Reid Evans and Michael John Evans.

CHAIRPERSON: Reid being the family name?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR MARTINI: So I was correct in possibly not accepting Mr Kahanovitz's version.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, with a respect, the hilarity that Mr Martini attempts to bring into this proceeding from time to time, is very hurtful to our clients.  We have heard about jokes, but we don't need any jokes when the identity of the would-be deceased is being discussed, and I would appeal to him through you, to please stop trying to introduce humour into the proceedings - of that nature.

MR MARTINI: Mr Chairperson, that was not humour, versions are being put to a witness and we're entitled to test it.  It was certainly not humour, and we've just established that Mr Kahanovitz did not exactly know his client's names, he had to take an instruction.  This was certainly not humour and I'd ask Mr Bizos once again to refrain from making these emotive inflammatory statements.  My client is entitled to accept that when he's cross-examined, that what's put to him is correct.  That's all we tested.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well we've heard - we won't make humour of serious matters and also if we can cut out on the personal attacks here.
	So Mr van Zyl, when you write in your statement here "Michael Gavin Evans", where did you get that from?

MR VAN ZYL: Mr Chairperson, those are the names that I could remember, Michael Gavin Evans, but maybe to clear up the identity of the person that we worked on, at a stage he lived, I think they would call it the Troyeville area, and he was a journalist working at a newspaper company.  Maybe the witness that was here just now could say that it was him, or whether it was his brother.

UNKNOWN: Right Mr van Zyl, are you prepared to accept for purposes of these proceedings, that your intended target was one, Gavin Evans and not one, Michael Evans?

MR VAN ZYL: Correct.

UNKNOWN: And that insofar as your statement refers to a target by the name of Michael Gavin Evans, it is incorrect.

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: Now at this meeting that you attended where the project was discussed, the only people present, if I understand your statement, is yourself, Staal Burger and Chappie Maree.

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: Now did you present a written "voorstudie" concerning the method that would be used to eliminate Evans?

MR VAN ZYL: No, I did not.

UNKNOWN: Why not?

MR VAN ZYL: Because it was said to me that I just had to execute the project, I just had to get Peaches and a second person to come to Jo'burg so that they could execute the project.  The project had already been presented and as I understood it, it was Chap Maree's project and I just had to give execution to it.

UNKNOWN: Did Chappie Maree prepare a "voorstudie", in which it was said that gangsters that work with Slang van Zyl, will be used to carry out the murder?

MR VAN ZYL: I assume so, although I was not present during that presentation.

UNKNOWN: Yes, but did he come to you before he made the presentation and say to you "Excuse me Slang, but will it be possible to use your guys from Cape Town and bring them up to kill this guy"?

MR VAN ZYL: No.

UNKNOWN: So he just put it into the "voorstudie" off his own bat.

MR VAN ZYL: If he did it like that.  I was not present during his preliminary study, so I cannot comment on it.

UNKNOWN: Isn't it so that this project was in fact taken away from Chappie Maree and was given to you because Maree was being sent to work on a project outside of South Africa?

MR VAN ZYL: I have no knowledge of it.

UNKNOWN: If it had happened you would have knowledge of that because what would have been said to you by Staal Burger, was "Mr van Zyl, can you please take over this project, it's now your responsibility because Mr Maree has to work on a project outside of South Africa?"  Correct?

MR VAN ZYL: Mr Chairperson, what I can remember of this incident is that Chap did the presentation, but he did not have people who could give execution to this project.  At that stage I was the only person in Region 6, who had already recruited people so that projects could be executed and this was why I was asked to make my people available.

UNKNOWN: But Mr van Zyl, your version throughout in relation to this incident, has been that "This was Mr Maree's project, it was not my project."

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.

UNKNOWN: "My only role was that I was a cog in the machine, in the sense that I was asked to make available the people that I had in Cape Town, to carry out the job."

MR VAN ZYL: That is so.