Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-11

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] before you proceed, so that we can think about this.  A reference was made to the contents of the unsworn statement and to that extent I don't think there will be any problem in cross-examination on the statement.
	My understanding is that because it has already been referred to, although not directly but indirectly, there would not be any issue as to its being used for the purposes of cross-examination.
	Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I won't object if that statement is put to this witness for his comments.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Yes, I don't think there's any difficulty in that Mr Chairman.  Insofar as it may form part of an amnesty application.  It's been referred to and that confidentiality can be waived by the Committee in the interests of pursuing the full facts that can be put to the witness, so there is no prejudice.

MR BERGER: Thank you Chairperson.  If I could just place on record that the documents which we received and which we made the Committee - no, no, I just wanted to say this, we don't have the full application for amnesty.  It might well be, and for that we would rely on Mr Prior and his team, it might well be that the unsworn affidavit was annexed, it seems to have been annexed, to an application for amnesty.  The application for amnesty ought to have been sworn to and so then this would have been an annexure to the application for amnesty, if I'm correct.  I don't know, perhaps Mr Prior can just assist.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I just briefly say, according to Mr van Rensburg in Cape Town who was the analyst preparing this matter, the application as we have it before us is incomplete, although the TRC had the completed version as it.  The affidavit unsigned and unattested was received at some other stage but was not annexed to the initial application.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, let's proceed.

MR BERGER: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Khanyile, when did you first decide to apply for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I can't remember the exact time but I think it's a long time ago.

MR BERGER: You were convicted in 1994.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BERGER: At the time of your conviction, had you decided to apply for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: After I was convicted or before I was convicted, can you clarify?

MR BERGER: At the time when you were convicted, and let me be specific, you were sentenced on the 9th of June 1994.

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BERGER: At the time when you were sentenced, the 9th of June 1994, had you already decided to apply for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: No, I hadn't yet decided because I didn't know anything about amnesty.

MR BERGER: As at the 9th of June 1994, do I understand you correctly, you were not even considering the question of amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: When did you consider the question of amnesty for the first time?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: After we were convicted our lawyers explained to us about the amnesty.

MR BERGER: When was that?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I would say, if my memory serves me well, it was in 1996 or 1995, I don't remember well.

MR BERGER: And when did you take a decision that you were going to apply for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Even if I don't remember well, but the lawyers did tell us that, specifically on the day we decided to go and apply for amnesty, they informed us that we have to go and apply for amnesty because the closing date is near.  All I know is that it was just before the closing of the amnesty application.

MR BERGER: At that time where were you?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I was at Khayelitsha Hostel, called Ethlatin.

MR BERGER: Which Province is that in?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: It's here at Sebokeng.

MR BERGER: Was that in 1995, 1996 or 1997?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: As I've explained before, between 1995 and 1996, I don't remember exactly what year it was.

MR BERGER: Why did it take you until the 29th of January 1998 before you signed your amnesty application?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Firstly, I didn't know much about the amnesty.  After I've agreed with my lawyers that I'm going to ask for amnesty, that's all I could do.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, my question is simply this: if you informed your lawyers in 1995 or 1996 that you wish to apply for amnesty, why did it take you until January 1998 before you signed your application for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: My answer was Mr Berger, at the time when I agreed with my lawyers that I'm going to apply for amnesty I left it in their hands to do what was supposed to be done because they know the procedure.

MR BERGER: Do I understand you correctly, that you cannot explain the delay?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Sir, if there has been a delay I think it is with the lawyers, it is not me, I didn't know anything about it.

MR BERGER: Is it correct that you were always available from 1995 until 1998 to sign an application for amnesty?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: Mr Khanyile, would please have a look at page 93 of the bundle in front of you?  If you look from page 93 through to 95, that is your application, who filled it out?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: The questions and the answers in this application, I would say I gave the answers, the signature on the papers is mine.

MR BERGER: So the words used on page 93, 94 and 95 in answer to the various questions, those are your words?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: If they're written the way I've stated them, yes, that's true.

MR BERGER: Well have they been read to you at any time and translated to you?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: And the words that are contained in that document are words that you agree with?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: If the Interpreter who explained to me that this is what was written on the paper, yes, I agree with that.

MR BERGER: Then page 96 and 97, are those also your words?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes.

MR BERGER: You're lawyers asked you certain questions, in particular question 9 and question 10 and these are the answers that you gave, is that correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BERGER: Is it correct also that the answers from page 100 to page 102 are your answers, those are your words?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: Yes, as I've already explained to you Sir, that if the Interpreter who was interpreting for me was what is written on the paper, I would say all that is written in this application are my words.

MR BERGER: Now at page 96, in answer to question 9(a)(1) you said
"The attack on Boipatong on the 17th of June 1992 when 46 people were killed, public violence was committed and at least 17 people were injured"
... are the acts for which you seek amnesty.  You went on to say:
"For further information, attached hereto is the following"
The first thing you attached was the charge sheet and the second thing you attached was the Judgment of the Trial Judge on the merits of the criminal case.  You attached two other documents but they are not relevant for present purposes.  Do I understand what you have done correctly, that you have attached the Judgment of the Judge as further information of what you did on that night in Boipatong?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: I will try to explain with regard to the criminal case because you've mentioned the Judgment.  What I said in Pretoria was said in the purpose of defending myself to be acquitted, and what I am saying here today is the truth.

MR BERGER: I understand from you that you lied in Pretoria, correct?

VINCENT KUSAHUSA KHANYILE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: Would I also be correct to say that the evidence which the State led against you in Pretoria, which you denied then but you now admit, as being correct?