Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

WHITE MOHAPE: What we had to do, we had to ensure that we expose him to students, but it was difficult to just go to student and out of the blue and say, no, no, look at Ngo, he is wearing expensive clothes, therefore he is an informer.  In actual fact, at that time students will beat me up, because they will think either I am jealous of, you know, Ngo, but we had to be sure of what we were doing and one instance was when he was driving Toyota Corolla and we were wondering how, where does he get Toyota Corolla from and when we asked him he told us that that Toyota Corolla is his sisters and when we ask him where does the sister work, he said, no, the sister is a domestic worker.
	Now, you could, you know, read from in between if a domestic worker in 1985 could buy, you know, a Toyota Corolla and then later he will say, no, that Toyota Corolla comes from his brother and that sequence of information, you know, was merely making us more to suspect him.  The other information that we also had to, you know, get from him is when you were going to conference in Durban, we went to two conferences of Cosas and the first conference when you arrived there, at the end of the conference we were informed that all documentation of Cosas must remain, because in the Free State I was responsible for all documentation of Cosas and we were also informed that we must be aware that there might be roadblocks along the way and if we are in possession of any documentation that might, you know, incriminate us with the, it leave it behind and one thing was that when we were there Ngo saw a diary, that diary was distributed by the ANC, I think, at that time, it was the Freedom Charter and Freedom Charter at that time was banned document.  
	I talked to him and said to him are you aware that this document can, you know, take you to five years imprisonment and then he said to me, no, no, I, do not tell me about the policemen, I am not afraid of them, but then it was a question mark to me.  How come a man who has (...indistinct) a document that can take him to five years is able to say, no, I am not afraid of the police.

MR STANDER: Was this after you returned to Bloemfontein, after the conference had been completed?

WHITE MOHAPE: (...Indistinct) it was in Durban before we came to Bloemfontein and when we came to Bloemfontein, as he promised me that he will leave it there, when I came to Bloemfontein I was, I went to his house (end of tape 2B)
at (...indistinct) where he was staying.  He was renting a room somewhere near Sayso Street and when I went there and enquire about him a woman who was in that room said to me, no, no, Ngo is not around, but he has left documentation and then I got interest to get that documentation.  I said, okay, can you give me that documentation and see it and then she brought that diary, you know, of the Freedom Charter and she also brought the minutes of the conference, that in actual fact, I thought all that documentation was left in Durban, but here it was in Ngo's hands and I said to that woman, give me a paraffin and she did that and I burned the diary of the ANC and I said to that woman, you tell Ngo that when he comes I took this documentation, minutes and if he want them he must come and fetch them, but you must also tell him that I burned the Freedom Charter, because I knew one of the strategies of the security branch would be that by myself having that documentation, they would then go to me and arrest me and charge me for possession of that documentation.  That is why I had to burn it.

MR STANDER: And then?