Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-25

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] - just before we do - this is at least the second time I think today and in these hearings where we have heard of an inquest being held without the family being notified or being given any opportunity to appear.  I think that this is something else that the Commission must look into.
And perhaps just for the record that really was that 11th day of August of 1976, you lost Madodomzi your brother, but there were 13 people killed in Guguletu that day and at least 8 people killed in Langa that same day.   Let's go on then to talk about your son,  Thamsanqa and the fact that he left your house in - on a Sunday in 1990 on the day of now President Nelson Mandela's  release.
And as I understand it, you haven't seen him since.  Would you like to tell us a bit more of what you know.    It's all right mamma you can - just rest a little bit and then you can be ready to talk to us.

MS LUTYA: On the 11th of February 1990 when the President was released I was working a night shift.  When I got home, everybody was anxious to go to the Grand Parade because that's where the President was going to be.  Everybody wanted to go to this Grand Parade, he asked for R10-00 from me to go to Town.
I gave him the money, but I said to him Thamsanqa are you going to be able to see everything there because it will be very full.  They were going to go there in the afternoon.  So I said I was going to go to work early because I knew that transport  would be scarce to go to work that day.  After I had left, apparently Thamsanqa's friend arrived.  Thamsanqa's girl friend, they both went to Town.   When I came back on Monday in the morning, I got a message that Tossi his friend told me that Thamsanqa has been taken by the police.  These policeman were in the yellow police van with the police stamp on the door, beige.
Then that's when I realised that he is in the police station in Town.  On the same Monday I went to the police station, when I got to Caledon Square, I was told that Thamsanqa wasn't there.  Then I went to Sea Point, even at Sea Point I couldn't find him.  So I went to all the police stations that I could think of, I couldn't find him.  I went to prisons, I couldn't find him there either.
I went to Salt River mortuary, even there I couldn't find Thamsanqa.  Then I went to ANC's lawyers who were at the vlak called Moosa.  They told me that they were going to look for me - for him.  Then when I got back I got a message that I must quickly go back to vlaking there I was told that there were two bodies at Salt River mortuary.  Maybe I could be able to identify Thamsanqa as one of those bodies.  So when I got there, they showed me all those bodies there, now they told me that there is another body that were the same age as Thamsanqa that was taken by some people to Gauteng.
Until today I never got Thamsanqa back, Thamsanqa left me with his children, now even if I am sick I have to go to work, because I have to work for Thamsanqa's child.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] your family has had many losses.  Can you - can you think of where the Truth Commission can do something to help you.

MS LUTYA: Yes I have something in mind, that the Commission can help me with.  Even though I would like to know who killed Madodomzi and why, but I know that Madodomzi will never come back again.  The only thing I want to know is where is Thamsanqa.  And if they have killed Thamsanqa, who killed him.  And now what about Thamsanqa's children who are now orphans.

MARY BURTON: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Denzil - Denzil Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson, I have taken note of what you've said in regard to Thamsanqa, I will just like to ask some details which might be of assistance to us if we try to find out what happened.  Do you know who was with him on that that, who went with him to the Parade?

MS LUTYA: I know the child who went him but he know, the child died.  That was his best friend, he died in a car accident.

ADV POTGIETER: Is he also the one that told you that Thamsanqa was put into a yellow police van or is it a different person.

MS LUTYA: Yes it's the same child who came to me to tell me that, Thamsanqa has been taken away by the police.

ADV POTGIETER: Did he - did he give you any idea as to why Thamsanqa was picked up by the police, what happened there?

MS LUTYA: I never got any information as to why was he arrested.  Because I never got him back to tell me why he was arrested.  And I couldn't speak to Thamsanqa as I have said to you, I never got any information, if he was arrested why was he arrested I have no clue.

ADV POTGIETER: What was his age when he disappeared?

MS LUTYA: When he got arrested he was 25 years old.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you still remember what he was wearing - what clothes he had on and that day?

MS LUTYA: What he had on?

ADV POTGIETER: His clothes, can you give us an idea of what he was wearing when he disappeared.

MS LUTYA: Thamsanqa [indistinct] with flops and a top written It's a Pleasure on the chest.

ADV POTGIETER: Is there any other [intervention]

MS LUTYA: Nothing else, it was a very hot day that day.

ADV POTGIETER: And is there any special characteristic that one can identify him by?  Is there any outstanding feature about his appearance for example, or perhaps it could help.

MS LUTYA: Thamsanqa is a tall well built guy and he is dark in complexion, I've got his photo's at home.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes, I was just going to ask you that, perhaps that will be of some assistance to us.  And if you could possibly arrange for us to get one.

MS LUTYA: Yes definitely.

ADV POTGIETER: That's fine, thank you very much.

MS LUTYA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Orr.

WENDY ORR: It must have been very painful for you to loose someone on the day which should otherwise have been so very joyful and I really do share your pain.  Do you know when your son was put in the police van was he well and healthy or had he been injured in the shooting and which has been going on.

MS LUTYA: He was well and healthy when he left my house, but I don't know what happened to him after he has left the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: You - you mentioned that he had a daughter and a son, that you are looking after them now, is that right?

MS LUTYA: That's correct.  But now the son was taken by - he was taken by one of - I am sorry I will appreciate it if the witness could repeat that for me.

DR BORAINE: The son was taken by the girl friend.

MS LUTYA: Girl friend's mother.

DR BORAINE: Girl friend's mother, thank you very much.  And the daughter?

MS LUTYA: She is with me.

DR BORAINE: How old is she?

MS LUTYA: She is 8 years.

DR BORAINE: She is at school.

MS LUTYA: She is at Good Hope Primary School.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, and her name?

MS LUTYA: Ulileltu.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

MS LUTYA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma - thank you very much mamma.  Our sympathies come towards you, we understand your pain thank you very much.