Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

NKOSI NELSON SHABANGU: (Sworn, States)

MR SINGH: Thank you, Mr Shabangu, you may be seated.  Just for the record do you wish to testify in Zulu or in English or Afrikaans?  I am aware that at this stage there is no Afrikaans interpreter available, however.

WITNESS:   I want to render my testimony in Afrikaans.  If it's easier I would give my testimony in English.

MR SINGH:  Yes, so you are prepared to go ahead in English then?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR SINGH:  Thank you.  Mr Shabangu, just as an introduction, can you tell this Commission where you have served, or the various departments in which you have served in the South African Police?

WITNESS:   I would first start by telling you when I started working for the police services.

MR SINGH: Do you want to testify in Zulu?

MR LYSTER: Please settle down.  The witness is going to testify in which language, Mr Singh?

MR SINGH: I'll clarify that, Mr Commissioner.  Now, Mr Shabangu, do you want to testify in English or in Zulu then?

WITNESS:   I am going to testify in Engels.

MR SINGH:  In English?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR SINGH: He will attempt to proceed in English then, Mr Commissioner.

INTERPRETER: Please be quiet.  This is a very important moment, an emotional moment in our history.  Could you please keep quiet and listen.  Contain yourselves please.  We cannot hear.  The technicians shall fix the problem.

MR SINGH: Yes, Mr Shabangu, the Commissioner asks that you just speak a little bit louder so that the people can hear you at the back.

WITNESS:   Okay.  Firstly I'm going to start to say I feel very happy now on this moment.  All the time when I was working on the police services there was no chance to come forward.  The certain place when I was working, I was working at different places of branches.  Firstly I was working at Riot Unit No 8, and then secondly I worked at Internal Security Branch, and the third one I was working at Murder & Robbery, and then fourthly I was working at the Uniform Branch.

MR LYSTER: Are they not hearing him?

INTERPRETER: Maybe if you can express yourself in Zulu.  Can you speak Zulu, Mr Shabangu?

WITNESS:   I do not understand it properly.  I cannot express myself in Zulu.  (Pause)

MR LYSTER: All right, Mr Shabangu, you said that you - you just gave us a brief account of the different units in which you served - the Murder & Robbery.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LYSTER:  The Uniform Branch, the Riot Unit No 8 here in Pietermaritzburg.

WITNESS:   Ja, I counted about four different branches where I was working.

MR LYSTER:  Please carry on speaking.  I just want to check whether the audience can now hear the interpreter.

WITNESS:  Well, I'm going to put on this people's mind first why I came forward.  I'm going to put a short briefly on a firstly.  The man who was a policeman was serving under our unit, Unit 8.  That man was killed.  Because of this man was killed - this man was killed because of he killed one of the commander from Pietermaritzburg. (intervention)

MR SINGH: Mr Shabangu, could I just interrupt you and ask you to - you're quite welcome to name the people you're referring to.

WITNESS:   Okay, the man I'm going to specify here is Constable Ray Ngcobo.  He was killed because he killed Major Deon Terblanche.  That's why I put in the people's mind on this specific moment I am sitting here - I am freely on the moment, but on outside - outside I won't feel free.  I am going to start firstly on this - during 1990, March.  That specific time I was working at Security Branch.  On one day at one stage a certain man came, that's David Ntombela, and he came to speak to one of our superiors.  On that moment I couldn't specify who was that.  And he came to tell us that the ANC has blocked the road of the Edendale Road.  And our superior he told us we must out onto the area to patrol that area.  If I say our superior on that specific basis I refer to - he's a captain now at the moment, Captain Brookes.  We're doing the patrols during the time when he told us, and also the part of the people from the unit.  If I say the unit I specify the Riot Unit.  On that specific moment there was nothing happening there, and up to the stage on one day there was a bus coming from town going to Elandskop.  And there was a lady who was injured into that bus.  There was a youngster who was standing next to Mavulala bus stop, and he threw a stone into the bus.  And then on this stage we went to the scene and the specific man I was talking about, David Ntombela, told the bus must go into the N3 side.  That mean all the buses going to come to Pietermaritzburg they must use the N3.  The bus was using this road for quite a while.

MR SINGH:  Sorry, you're talking about the N3 now?

WITNESS:   That's correct.  And up to this stage I was working at basic again back at the unit.  One morning I was sleeping at Ansonia Hotel and Special Constable Duma approached me.  That was round about early in the morning.  And he told me I must accompany with him to pick up the special constable.  And because I know this man I put my uniform on and I went with him.  We already collect all the special constables from that ... (incomplete)

MR SINGH:  Sorry, from which area was that, Mr Shabangu?

WITNESS:  I am talking about the Elandskop.  By the time when all the special constables was collected all them they have possession of shotguns.

MR SINGH:  Yes.  Sorry to interrupt you yet again.  What vehicle were you using, and about how many special constables did you pick up?

WITNESS:   That was an Isuzu truck, and it was white in colour, and there was approximately 25 constables.  And we came down up to the stage where the area called Gezabuso.  At Gezabuso I saw a lot of crowd in front of the truck, and this group of people, a lot of them had this assegai.  And some of them they're wearing Zulu tradition things.  And this man, David Ntombela, he stopped the truck and he called this special constable by his name.  Then he told him no one's going to go down.  All the special constables must get out from the truck.  All the special constables they went out of the truck with their shotguns.  By that time they left into the ground after the truck, and this Duma assist - he asked me to drive the truck now.  I must follow them.  Well, I followed them on the gravel road, the road leading into KwaShange.  And next to the school - there's a school on the left-hand side if you come to the hill - there's where I parked the truck.  And they ran into the houses.  By that time it was starting to be daylight.  You can see the people from far away this time.  And there's a gunshot was carrying on.  By the time the gunshot carried on then I saw a lot of houses was burnt down.  The house was burnt down by the special constables because they were running watch to these houses.  They were running watch to these houses.  I stayed behind to the truck because I couldn't leave there, up to the stage I pick up the radio, I call for the assistance.  But on this stage there was no vehicle around.  And about a hour ago the red Husky came there.

MR SINGH:  Sorry, Mr Shabangu, you mean an hour later?

WITNESS:   And he went past us, myself and to the truck.  And then the Toyota kombi came.  That Toyota kombi I realised because I know that.  That's a kombi was - I was working with this member before.

MR SINGH:  Mr Shabangu, before you proceed, you mentioned a red Husky.  Could you just explain to the Commission the relevance of this red Husky?

WITNESS:   The red Husky was used before that Toyota kombi came.

MR SINGH:  Used by whom?

WITNESS:   Well, there was a team was in form.  That team was in form by the unit.  I was one of the team.

MR SINGH:  Yes, thank you, you may proceed then.