Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

WITNESS:   Sometimes I do go to bed without food.  Sometimes my children go to neighbours and give help to them and then they pay them.  Then we can have food in that way.

PROF MAGWAZA:  What else can you ask from us?

WITNESS:   I would like the Government to take care of my children, just to support them.

PROF MAGWAZA:  In other areas we have social workers, where people go for help.  Did you ever try and go to see social workers?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did, but nothing happened so I eventually stopped going to them. We understand your problem, Mrs Msane, and we understand the request you are making before us.  Our job is to take whatever you ask from the Commission, to take it to the Government.  Some of them we can be able to help you soon.  You don't need to go to the Government, like to take you to social workers or to hospitals, so that they help you.  And your story is really touching.  Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: I would like you to start relating to me what actually happened when you said your husband was killed at 3 o'clock, but when the police came the body wasn't there.

WITNESS:   Yes, it wasn't there, because I think they pulled the body and they hid it in the nearby bush.

KHOZA MGOJO:  One last thing.  You said you have five children who are still at school.  Who is paying for their education?  Because you just said to us sometimes you go to bed all of you without food.

WITNESS:   Like I told you, my children ask people, neighbours, to help them, so that they pay them and then they come back.  They pay for food and that's how they pay for their education.  They are at Sibululwane School.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you know the principal of the school?

WITNESS:   I don't know his name, but I know a teacher by the name of Hadebe.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Okay, thank you.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Msane, that area that you live in, where your husband was killed, what is that area called?  Is it Sokhulu?

WITNESS:   Sokhulu.

CHAIRPERSON:  And that part of Sokhulu, is it an ANC area?  I know Sokhulu is divided into IFP.

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON:  So you are staying in an ANC area?

WITNESS:   ANC area.

CHAIRPERSON:  Do you believe that that is why your husband was attacked, because he was living in that ANC area?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do believe so.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mrs Msane, thank you very much for coming in, telling us your very sad story.  We can see that you are still suffering from your husband's death, even though it took place three years ago.  We know how difficult it is for a parent not to be able to look after and care for their children, and this has been brought about by the loss of your husband and the breadwinner of the family.  We will try and investigate what took place here.  Who were the people responsible.  It can't bring your husband back, but it may assist you to know who did these things and you may be contacted by one of our investigators and we would like you to do everything you can to help them, so we can get to the bottom of who did this terrible thing to you.  And, as Dr Mgojo has said, we will attempt - we will certainly make recommendations to the Government about how you might receive assistance in the education of your children.  So, again, thank you very much for coming in today and telling us your story.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: 3A/0

CHAIRPERSON: The following witness is Nozipho Mthethwa.  Good morning, Mrs Mthethwa, can you hear me?  Thank you very much for coming in.  You are from Mtubatuba and you've come to tell us about the death of your ... (intervention)

MRS MTHETHWA: Sokhulu.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are also from Sokhulu.

MRS MTHETHWA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So the statement is wrong.  And you've come to tell us about the death of your husband, Aaron.  Is that right?

MRS MTHETHWA: Aaron.

CHAIRPERSON: Who died in 1992.  Can you stand, please, to take the oath, before you tell us that story.

NOZIPHO MTHETHWA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  It's Mrs Gcabashe who will assist you with your evidence.

MRS GCABASHE: Good day, Nozipho.  If you can't hear me, please tell me that you can't hear me.  Let me first start by thanking you for the courage that you've shown to come and appear before this Commission.  As you will know, the aims and objectives of the Commission is to give out the truth and find out more about the human rights violations that took place in the past years, especially during the past regime.  I welcome you on behalf of the Commission.  Even before we start relating your story, in your statement you said you were staying at Mtubatuba.  Is there a mistake?

WITNESS:   No, I said I stay in Sokhulu, because I never stayed in Mtubatuba.  I stay at Sokhulu.

MRS GCABASHE:  Before we get into the core of the matter, we would like you to give us a brief background about your family. Your immediate family, your children, your parents.

WITNESS:  My in-laws have passed away.  My own parents are still alive.

MRS GCABASHE:  Are they working?

WITNESS:   No, they're not employed.

MRS GCABASHE:  Tell us more about yourself and your family.

WITNESS:  Aaron Mthethwa was my husband, but we did not have any children.

MRS GCABASHE:  You don't have any children that you're staying with at the moment?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am staying with two children.  That is Aaron's brother's children.

MRS GCABASHE:  Just tell us what their names are.  Where is his brother?

WITNESS:   He's still around.

MRS GCABASHE:  Is he staying with you?

WITNESS:   No, he's staying at his place.  He's got his own place.  I mean the brother, Aaron's brother has got his own place, and the names of the children are Malusi and Nombusilelo.  Nombusilelo is one year old and Malusi two years old.

MRS GCABASHE:  Can you tell us, these children sound so very young, why aren't they staying with their mother?  You said they were your husband's brother's children?

WITNESS:   They are my children that I got from my present husband or my present companion.

MRS GCABASHE:  Aren't they going to school?

WITNESS:   No, they are not attending school as yet and I'm not employed.

MRS GCABASHE:  How do you make your living?

WITNESS:   I'm busy knitting jerseys and I sell them, but they don't really buy those jerseys, so I'm just keeping myself busy.

MRS GCABASHE:  What do you mean that they are not really selling.

WITNESS:   At times I make ten jerseys and I am not able to sell them.

MRS GCABASHE:  Where do you get the money to buy the wool, because you are not working and the jerseys are not being bought?

WITNESS:   I was also selling bananas.  I am selling fruit.

MRS GCABASHE:  Is that how you make a living?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MRS GCABASHE:  Let's come to the core of the matter.  Tell us about your husband's death.  According to your statement, you said it was in 1992.  Just give us a brief explanation as to what was taking place at that time at Mtubatuba.