Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-28

WITNESS:   That is correct.  When I was still in Krugersdorp Dr Verwoerd introduced a discriminatory law that the black people should not have any businesses in urban areas.  Then I was told that I was supposed to go back to my place, and they told me that I should go back to Natal, Umlazi, where I could erect a cinema.  When I got to Umlazi, and I was supposed to start operating on the cinema, I was told that there could be a certain Mr Swanepoel who could be posed as a front, and I was going to work under Mr Swanepoel.  I had 15 years' experience as a cinema owner in Krugersdorp.  Then I ended up being under Mr Swanepoel, and at that time I was hated by the community because I was working under Mr Swanepoel.  At that time the Special Branch came and they wanted to help me.  They wanted to get me a house, and they were asking me as to where they could get me a house, but I totally refused to have dealings with them because I knew that they wanted to get where I was staying.  They came to me and they asked me as to why I hadn't gone to Mr Luthuli's funeral, and I told them that at that time I was working.  They had a certain apparatus, which is I think a tape recorder.  I think they wanted to record me whilst i was talking to them.  And when I was talking to them, and telling them as to why I was there they saw Gatsha Buthelezi's photo or portrait, as well as King Zwelithini.  It is not because I liked Gatsha Buthelezi, but I liked King Zwelithini.  That's why I kept the portrait.  King Zwelithini was wearing red, he was in red.  They said King Zwelithini was Gatsha's wife, that's why he was standing next to him, and I protested their comments.  And I asked them as to why they had the tape recorder.  Then I asked them to replay it and they said it is not functioning.  Apparently there is a certain person who was hiding across the road.  This apparatus that they had was merely a transmitter which sent the message through to the one who was on the other side of the street.  Now, at that time the community regarded me as a traitor.  There is also a certain organisation called  Gaffer's Fools Conglomerators(?).

MRS GCABASHE: Let's just go back a little bit.  As I am listening to you you were being followed by the Special Branch.  Could you just explain as to why they kept on following you.  What had you done?

WITNESS:   As from the time I was staying in Krugersdorp I was a member of the Advisory Board, and I was also a politician, and I was quite outspoken about my ideologies.

MRS GCABASHE: Just hold a bit.  You were a member of the Advisory Board.  Where?  Whereabouts?

WITNESS:   That was in Krugersdorp.  That was in Manziville.  Now, when I got there I was called by the Special Branch, and they told me that they had gathered that I was busy mobilising people against their Government, and they wanted to get my photo so that they may get me whenever and wherever I held meetings.  I told them that I was not going to give them any photos.  If they wanted to have my photos they might as well take a photo of me.  I took these photos.  That is why then when I got here they kept on following me.  That was from Krugersdorp, Manziville, where they started following me.  Now they pretended as if they wanted to get me a house.  I could not hide where I stayed because I was a prominent member of the community, and I was very well known by the community, so I could not totally hide where I was staying.  So I gave them my address as to where I was staying.  After I had given them my address I never saw them coming back to do anything, because they only came to ask me as to why I hadn't gone to Mr Luthuli's funeral.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's go a little bit back.  You talked about a certain Swanepoel.  How did you meet Swanepoel?

WITNESS:   It was said that Swanepoel was going to manage the cinema and I was going to be his assistant manager.

MRS GCABASHE: When you came into Umlazi you wanted to operate a cinema.

WITNESS:   No, I started in Pretoria, and in Pretoria they told me that they were going to give me a cinema in Umlazi.  When I went to Umlazi to take over the cinema I was told that I was first going to work under Swanepoel.

MRS GCABASHE: What was Swanepoel?

WITNESS:   Swanepoel was apparently my manager.  He was also coming to the cinema.

MRS GCABASHE: How was he chosen to come and operate?

WITNESS:   I think he was from the KFC.  The KFC brought Swanepoel.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever ask to get any assistance from Swanepoel?

WITNESS:   No, I never asked to get any assistance.  They told me that they were going to give me the cinema at a later stage, but they never did that.  I also have documentation, as well as letters that I was writing to them, but they are with Mr Mlaba, an attorney.  Because at that time their manager wrote me a letter, and he told me that if I wanted to own a cinema I could buy it, and they were not going to charge me anything because the money that I had been paying for rent would be contributing to the initial deposit, so they were not going to charge me anything.  When he died they flatly refused to give me the cinema.

MRS GCABASHE: Who died?

WITNESS:   The manager who was in charge at that time at the KFC.  That is Dr Olivier.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you mentioned that you met Chief Buthelezi in Mpumalanga.  Can you just tell us briefly as to what the meeting was all about.

WITNESS:   What I meant was I had to go to Buthelezi because we kept on being attacked by the Inkatha Freedom Party.  So I went to him to approach him and tell me how to broach the subject.  When I got to Mr Buthelezi he came towards my car.  Just as I was opening the door he told me that I should occupy the back seat.  Maybe he feared that I was going to shoot him or attack him.  I sat at the back seat and I related the whole incident to him.  He never gave me an answer. Can you just explain as to what you were telling him?   ---   I was telling him about what was happening at my cinema, which was done by his thugs.  I wanted him to know that the members of his political party were conducting a reign of terror.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, when you tell us about what happened at the cinema, what had happened at the cinema?

WITNESS:   There is a lot of things that happened at the cinema.  At times they would break into the cinema.  At times they would want to gain entry without paying for the films.  There is quite a lot of incidents that I cannot count one by one that took place at that time.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you further said you wanted to ask him about the death of your son.

WITNESS:   That is the one I was referring to.

MRS GCABASHE: The truth is you wanted to talk to Chief Buthelezi about your son.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's - yes, you can go on as to what took place between you and the chief after you got into the car.

WITNESS:   I went on to relate the whole thing took place, but he didn't look very enthusiastic to listen to my story.  Apparently he was not free.  He thought maybe I was going to shoot him.  At that point when we were still talking two men approached us, and they were Inkatha Freedom Party members.  These members were thugs who were taken to terrorise people.  These people did not want to work hand in hand with the community.  He was just like Sabelo, because my life was saved from Sabelo, as Mr Gasa had already mentioned.  I was there on that particular day when they attacked the cinema.

MRS GCABASHE: As you have pointed out, what happened at the cinema?  Were you already there at the cinema?  Were you managing the cinema at the time this took place?

WITNESS:   That is correct.  I had given them permission to hold a memorial service for Mrs Nxengi.

MRS GCABASHE: You can go on.  Yes, when you were with Chief Buthelezi in the car.