Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-12

RUSSELL ALLY: Thanks, we would appreciate if you made that available.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I am not too clear here where people give a guide like they are saying Mr Curtis Nkondo did give something that could hint to the disappearance of your father.  Had Mr Nkondo at any stage met your father before?

MVULA KHAULELA: If we have listened very well.  I did mention that I did not meet Mr Nkondo, but these are one of the stories that I get ...

THOMAS MANTHATA: Oh, I see.

MVULA KHAULELA: ... throughout my investigation, but now the problem is I cannot remember people whom I met, whom made mention of his name.  As I am saying that I would like him also, at least, to give an evidence, I mean, on this matter.  I said earlier on that he did not know my father, but he described a person like my father.  That is what I am saying.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I see.  In short, what I understand you to be saying  to us is you are giving us the lead to the people that we can contact in an effort to trace the whereabouts of your father?

MVULA KHAULELA: Like I got, I once published in one of the newspapers, in the City Press, the same thing.  I was still in search of my father.  I have long started and trying to find out his whereabouts.  Like I said I managed to, I am just picking up with whatever story that has got to do with his disappearance.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  I have no further questions.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 M KHAULELA

CHAIRPERSON: Have you ever, sorry, Mrs Sooka wants to do a follow-up question.

YASMINE SOOKA: I just want to ask you.  You sound like you have some sort of theory of how your father or who was responsible for his disappearance.  Is that something that you have thought through?

MVULA KHAULELA: Well, maybe one would say I am one sided.  I would not like that.  I am open.  I am open in this matter, but nevertheless the stories that I get, I might get them from one side.

YASMINE SOOKA: My second question and, of course, you might choose not to answer or disclose the information.  You say that you have in your possession minutes, extracts of minutes of a meeting.  Who was the meeting, what was the meeting about and who were the people present at that meeting and how were you able to obtain the document?

MVULA KHAULELA: Do you want me to read the names of the people here?

YASMINE SOOKA: No.

MVULA KHAULELA: And also because the question of the source.  I may not disclose it.

YASMINE SOOKA: Disclose it. Okay.  I do not think that we will ask you to read the minutes, but I will simply ask you to tell us who the people were, what kind of meeting this was and who the people were who were at this meeting.

MVULA KHAULELA: This was a joint military and police meeting, high ranking officers that took place at the Eastern Cape command.

YASMINE SOOKA: You say the date when this meeting took place?

MVULA KHAULELA: It was the seventh of June.

YASMINE SOOKA: Seventh June 1985?  I hear my colleagues.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 M KHAULELA

MVULA KHAULELA: Yes, 7 June 1985.

YASMINE SOOKA: I think that, obviously, we would need to get that document from you.

MVULA KHAULELA: No problem.  That is why I brought it here.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khaulela, I do not think I have any follow-up questions.  We will get that document and we will certainly follow through whatever leads there are.  You will be knowing that we are getting lots of bits and pieces of information from all over the country.  We hope that as they are coming together they will start fitting.  Some of the information will reply, will be giving answers to some of the questions on the other side and vice versa.  We have a database, an information flow control system set up which will only show the benefit later after some way that we have made through the hearings, but we will again, in good time, we will report to you.  We will appreciate it if you will leave the document with us as you leave the stand.  Thank you very much for coming to us.

MVULA KHAULELA: Would you mind if you gave me a copy of it?

CHAIRPERSON: A copy would be fine.  A copy would be fine.  We will do it now.  We have Mrs Janice Grobbelaar there who is our Manager of Information Flow.  She is a Professor from this area, but she is also capable.  So she will see to you getting a, I am saying she is a Professor and capable.  So, she will see to it that you get your copy of the document.  Thank you very much.

MVULA KHAULELA: Thank you.
PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG