Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-07

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  I would like to commence by just introducing my Committee.  On my right is Ms Sisi Khampepe.  On my immediate left is Mr Johnny Motata and on my far left is Mr Jake Moloi and I am Selwyn Miller, who will be chairing here.
	I would like to ask the legal representatives also please to put themselves on record.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  My name is John Wills, Attorney of Pietermaritzburg.  I represent Mr Brian Mkhize, Mr Romeo Mbambo, Mr Israel Hlongwane and Mr Bertwill Ndlovu.

MR STUART: Thank you Mr Chairman, I am Angus Stuart from the Durban Bar instructed by the Campus Law Clinic at the University of Natal in Durban.  I represent three of the applicants, Dalaqolo Luthuli, Bekhisiso Khumalo and Zweli Dhlamini.

MR HEWIT: Mr Chairman, I am Jeff Hewit of the Durban Bar, instructed by Mr Falconer of Larson, Broadman and Falconer.  We represent various persons whom we have been informed may well be implicated in the evidence of the applicants.
	Shall I read the names of those persons, it is quite a large...

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think it is necessary at this stage.

MR HEWIT: May I draw your attention Mr Chairman, to the fact that two of the persons on this list, we have been informed, they are actually deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Perhaps you can mention those few persons Mr Hewit.

MR HEWIT: The first person is at the top of the list on the letter dated the 24th of March 1998, which was sent by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to those instructing me.  The first person is Lucky Mbuyasi, who is on the top of that list, and the second person is number two on that list, that is Nhlanipo Matenywa.  We are informed that that person is also deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hewit.

MR HEWIT: Sorry Mr Chairman, there is also one other aspect that I should draw the Committee's attention to at this stage, that is on this list there is a certain Mr Xele, we have been unable to ascertain who this person is, and therefore we do not represent.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think perhaps in that connection Mr Hewit, when we have a break if you could speak to the evidence leader, Mr Mpshe and he might be able to give you some information as to who that Mr Xele is.

MR HEWIT: We have already Mr Chairman, been given what information is available, and unfortunately we still are unable to identify that person, or to trace him.
	So the position is at this stage it appears he has not been notified, whoever this Mr Xele is, it appears that he has not been notified of these proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you Mr Hewit.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, my name is Emvuseni Ngubane.   I am representing the victims and the families of eSikhawini.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR BOOYENS: May it please the Committee Mr Chairman, Kobus Booyens from the Pietermaritzburg Bar, instructed by Francois van der Merwe of the firm Van der Merwe and Bester of Port Elizabeth.
	We appear on behalf of Colonel Louis Botha who have received notification in terms of Section 19 of the Act, as well as on behalf of the South African Defence Force.
	I have been requested to place certain aspects as far as the Defence Force is concerned, just on record before the matter proceeds, so if I may just be given an opportunity once the other legal representatives have announced their appearance, just to place that on record.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly, thank you Mr Booyens.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman and members of the Committee, Mpshe J.M., leader of evidence, duly assisted by evidence analyst Mr Nathilala.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe.  Mr Booyens?

MR BOOYENS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, we have been instructed by the South African Defence Force that they, in this matter, the training of certain people in the Caprivi by the Defence Force, would be in issue.  It is not disputed by the Defence Force that those people were trained in fact, although it is disputed that it was with a malicious intent.
	The notification was sent by fax to the South African National Defence Force (indistinct), and they have informed us that although Brigadier Van Niekerk, Colonel Swart and Colonel Breytenbach are mentioned in the papers, that they were unable to trace those people, and accordingly they have not received notice.
	Furthermore they wish to place on record that the documents were only received by the Defence Force on the 2nd of April 1998 and in the available time, they couldn't trace the persons mentioned.  However, our instructions are just to place this on record, and not at this stage to ask for an adjournment or anything, but just to reserve the rights if necessary.
	Then there is also mentioned by the South African Defence Force that one Cloete and one J.P. Opperman who testified  in what is now commonly known as the Magnus Malan trial, were also erstwhile members of the Defence Force, were also implicated in this matter, and these two persons we know as a fact, did not receive indemnity against prosecution, but  they haven't been notified by the Defence Force either.
	It is apparent that they are also mentioned.  So those are the facts which I have been asked to place on record, Mr Chairman, on behalf of the Defence Force.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you Mr Booyens.  I think we can just put it on record as well, that we have before this Committee seven applications for amnesty.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, may I disturb you a little bit Mr Chairman.  May I disturb you before we move to that one, to round up the issue of legal representatives?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I have before me Mr Chairman, a letter from the firm Jan Wagenaar, Miller and Du Plessis, the law firm representing the SAPS, but they have indicated to me that they will not attend, but they have given me a letter and the last paragraph of their letter enjoins me to read this into the record, so that the Committee should know of their  position.
	If the Chair allows me to read the letter into the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you can go ahead.