Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

MR POTGIETER: But instead, you were charged and you were accused of having committed public violence?

LULAMILE BASIE PETER: Yes, a charge was laid on me.

MR POTGIETER: But there was no charge laid against the police who were shooting?

LULAMILE BASIE PETER: No. There were no charges laid against the police otherwise I would be aware of it.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mntukanti Mbolekwa is going to give evidence, was he there on the day.

LULAMILE BASIE PETER: Yes, he was.

CHAIRPERSON: We reverse our earlier decision and ask, Mntukanti Mbolekwa and Msokoli Nqandu to take the stand. That is after tea and that we do not ask Lulamile Peter to stand down at this stage. The case seems to be very closely related and I think we want to get to the bottom of some of the events that took place at the time.

PANEL MEMBER: We agreed.

CHAIRPERSON: We are then going to ask that you remain there on the stands, you come back after tea time and you sit where you are and then we ask Mntukanti Mbolekwa and Msokoli Nqandu Mnandi to join you so that we look into this case.
 (Adjourn Tea Break)

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please stand Mr Mbolekwa.

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: (Sworn duly states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please rise Mr Nqandu.

MSOKOLI NQANDU: (Sworn duly states)

CHAIRPERSON: Sir, do you have to be sworn in as well?

HENRY SALJE: (Sworn duly states)

CHAIRPERSON: Before we proceed we would like to ask Mr Ntsikelelo Sandi to tell us briefly about Mr Salje.

MR SANDI: Mr Henry Salje's evidence is that the police who shot at these children, as the previous witness stated, that he has seen them coming from where they had loaded these branches and proceeded to conceal themselves with these branches.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Henry Salje, before we adjourned for tea we were listening to the evidence of Lulamile Basie Peter and while we were listening to his story, we asked him not to leave the witness stand but that we should call to the stand Mntukanti Mbolekwa and Msokoli Nqandu.
 Since we noticed that the story that we were hearing from Lulamile Peter was corroborative of the stories told by the two witnesses we have just called.
 Now we will proceed and hear the evidence of Mntukanti Mbolekwa and also the evidence of Msokoli Nqandu and we will ask Mr Sandi to help us because Mr Henry Salje will also give supporting evidence. We thank you also for coming forward and we will hand over to Mr Sandi who will put questions to you on behalf of the Commission. Thank you very much.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson. We would like to start with Mr Mbolekwa. Sir, you also reside at Despatch, is that correct?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes.

MR SANDI: The story that you are going to tell about your shooting is about the police that were shooting at school children as stated by the previous witness, Mr Peter. It was something that happened to you there at Despatch. Is that correct?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes.

MR SANDI: According to the statement it was on a Thursday on the 18th April 1985 and when looking at your statement you say that you were sitting outside in the sun. Can you just tell us from there, what happened?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes. I was sitting outside basking in the sun when I saw this lorry. A green lorry appeared near the school and when it got near our blocks, it stopped and these branches, first you only saw branches and then the next thing people appeared from amongst these branches with their arms and they started firing.

MR SANDI: Do you mean that they started shooting?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, they shot.

MR SANDI: Who did they shoot at?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: They shot at everyone around.

MR SANDI: They struck you while shooting?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, they struck me while they were shooting. They even followed me. I was crawling to the other side.

MR SANDI: Where did they strike you, where on your body did they strike you?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: They struck me here.

MR SANDI: You say that they followed you into your house. You went around crawling into your house.

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: They followed me, even while I was crawling.

MR SANDI: Did they come closer to you while you were crawling. Did these policemen come closer to you?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: No, they stood in the street.

MR SANDI: Did they not drag you out?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: They took me when I was already in the house and they dragged me out into the street.

MR SANDI: While they were dragging you out into the street, were they saying anything to you?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: What do you mean?

MR SANDI: Were they saying anything to you verbally?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: No, they did not say anything, they just said "sit here and wait for an ambulance".

MR SANDI: Did you go to hospital for the shots that you received?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, an ambulance arrived at about sunset and took me to the hospital.

MR SANDI: In your statement you say that there are some pellets still lodged in your chest? Are they still there?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, they are.

MR SANDI: What reason did the doctors give you for not being able to remove them?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: I didn't ask them anything, they just said "you are being discharged today, go" and I also just left.

MR SANDI: Were these the doctors that told you that these pellets were lodged in your chest?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: I feel them when I touch my body, they form lumps.

MR SANDI: Sir, is that all you would like to tell us in connection with what happened to you on that day?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: From what I know?

MR SANDI: No, is that all that you would like to say about what happened to you.

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, there is nothing else.

MR SANDI: I am talking about what you are telling us today, is there anything else that you would like to add to that?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: All else that I would like to say is that I would like help because I am not well anymore because ever since I have not been the same.

MR SANDI: In your statement you say that your health has deteriorated due to that injury?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Can you please tell us more about the state of your health, what else can you tell us about your state of health?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: There is nothing else that I would like to add.

MR SANDI: Do you have any request that you would like to place before this Commission?

MNTUKANTI MBOLEKWA: Yes, I would like to ask the Commission that when this happens to me, when the pain starts seizing me, it seizes me in such a way that I can just fall to the ground.

MR SANDI: Thank you very much Mr Mbolekwa. Let us now go to Mr Nqandu.
 Sir, Mr Nqandu, your child was also shot on this day there?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: Yes, Sir.

MR SANDI: How did you receive these tidings?