Human Rights Violation Hearings — Leandra — 1997-06-03

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: In 1986, soon after these guys had met their fateful death Vaku's mum use to frequent my home at Laki, but the way she was doing it, she was overdoing it and it was a sensitive period then and she use to like crowd us, I would put it that way up until a certain stage whereby my mum said, you know, I think you better stop coming here, because we were not happy with the account of events that she was presenting to us.  I mean her son survived, her son survived and our sons are dead, but she kept coming, but we could not really understand why was she coming.  My mum could just pick up something that she does not like the old lady, but now in terms of mam asking me whether we have initiated a meeting with Vaku now of late, we have not.  However, what I can say next to our home there is a youngster who is also at Walmasdal.  He once informed us he was with Vaku.  Vaku was coming to deliver him at his home with the other soldiers and then he said to Vaku Comrade Barney stays next door.  That is where Comrade Barney use to say.  I mean, really, really if we are to exercise our ubuntu this guy should have either went to my home, to my mum's place, knocked and said, hi mama, here I am.  Since we last parted with Barney, parted our ways during that botched up operation at Piet Retief.  I mean, it does not mean Vaku does not know where we stay, but, mam, we have not tried to try and look for Vaku, because we are very sceptical that we will ever get a fair account of events on his side.  That is my suspicion.  I do not know what my, the old lady has to say, because we are also in the same boat.

MS SEROKE: In this Sowetan clipping here, this article by Sharon Chetty, I think it is, it came about just in 1996.  She mentions that the ANC at the advice of Nelson Mandela formed a committee for the bereaved and the task of this committee was to inform the families of cadres who had died in exile.  Have you ever been in touch with such a committee in Shell House to find out more about what happened?

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: Mam Seroke, that committee, I will put it blunt, it is a laughing stock to me, a laughing stock.  My brother died in 1985.  It does not mean that they do not know, it does not mean that they do not know, it does not mean they do not know where does Barney stay.  It was easy for them in exile to locate Barney's home by sending a telegram, it landed at home.  Now of late when they are now free of any restrictions in South Africa they can hardly come there.  To be honest with you mam, to answer you in 1996, 1996 it was the first time we saw two gentlemen of the Bereavement Committee, I will not mention their names.  We saw those two gentlemen coming to my home the 20th of June 1996, 1995, yes, 1995 the 20th of June.  I am saying the 20th because I am working for the bank, I am getting paid the 20th.  I said I will memorise that day, that date, I will memorise that date.  It is the first time they dared to come to my home and I know the reason why.  It was because I was waging, I was waging a fierce battle against Nokuthula, trying to help my uncle to locate Nokuthula, to look around for Nokuthula.  As a matter of fact, I am the one who revealed where Nokuthula is by helping this uncle of mine.  It was, the things that, my comments are the ones that made this gentlemen to come to my home, but what they came there for I do not know, but it had nothing to do with any help so far that we really need, absolutely.

MS SEROKE: The same article goes on to say Barney Molokoane, Victor Kayana and Vincent Siketi were killed in a fire-fight with security forces when they tried to enter Swaziland at the Houtkop Border posts and, as I said, all we can do in terms of your other questions relating to Vaku, we could refer those to the ANC and, as you know, the ANC has made submissions as a party to the TRC and we will also find out and refer your questions to them.  In terms of the child you say you have, you believe there was a child and you talk about a grandmother, but at the end of your statement you still say if anybody knows of that child.  So I am a bit confused now, because I thought you knew the whereabouts of the child.

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: Okay, I will clarify.  I will clarify by saying we have been sent on a hell of a, I beg your pardon, we have been sent on a wild goose chase in search of that very little boy.  There was a young lady, she was working somewhere at Natalspruit, she was working at Natalspruit. The way they purported this lady to be, they purported that lady as Barney's girlfriend so by the information we got from Ermelo, that is now from the grandmother's place, she said there is a lady who can help you, go to Natalspruit.  So we went to this industrial area where she is working.  So we parked there and waited for them to come out lunchtime.  Then we accosted this lady and then we said to her, no, we are Barney's family, blah, blah.  So we are looking for Barney's child thinking that this lady was Barney's girlfriend.  You know, that lady she cried and she was, you know, she was just confused, but she was not of any help to us.  Now it turnout at the end of the day this lady was a younger sister, a younger sister, yes, she was a younger sister to Barney's girlfriend, the mother of this boy.
 Now we went back, we phoned back the old lady in Ermelo and said how we managed to go to the industrial area, we managed to get this lady and then she was not of any help to us.  Now, the old lady said to us I find it strange, why is this lady behaving that way.  Now, you know, it was a hell of a confusion, but now at the end of the day it turned out that this girl at the industrial area at Natalspruit.  She was the one who was entrusted with Barney's child, to look after that boy.  Now she got married, somewhere she got married, somewhere in Natalspruit.  Now the boy, Barney's boy was now out of her control again.  So, of late I believe that boy was somewhere in Piet Retief in some of the shacks there.  It is a pathetic story to listen to.  That is why I am putting this number that whoever is there, because it seems the old lady still, the child is out of her bounds now.

MS SEROKE: Well, we have a very strong committee of Mpumulanga made up of priests from different churches and I am sure we will ask them to pursue this on our behalf if they happen to get any links from you.  Just to wind up now, you talked about Barney's pension.

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: Yes mam.

MS SEROKE: And I wonder if you are aware that the ANC now has started a pension fund for all the people who died in exile and I wonder if you could not go to Shell House in terms of this request that you are making.

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: I frequent Shell House because I happen to work in Kloof Street and I am rallying through not only on my behalf, but even on behalf of the old lady from Transkei and the Meadowlands families.  I have made submissions on behalf of all these families to the Shell House and I can say the pensions I was told of late, before I came here I did consult with them so that I can report to the families here where are we now.  Now they said to me everything is at an advanced stage to get those pensions.  So that is what I was going to tell them.  So I am aware of that and there is yet another which I call, they call it demobilisation package which is also, I have also made their submissions, put their names on the application forms.  So that is one is still also a subject for debate, yes.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Now, lastly you have asked for the remains of Barney.

SULLIVAN P MOLOKOANE: Yes.