Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1999-05-06

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Pule arrived ?  No.  Lilian Kadi ? No.  Can I ask Lekolobo  Segobodi to come to the stage.

UNKNOWN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry ?

UNKNOWN: My surname in Kladi, Kadi.

CHAIRPERSON: Welcome Lilian.  Lilian you've come to tell us about something that happened in 1993.  I'm going to ask Professor Meiring to help you  with your oath and then Dr Ally is going to be helping you as you tell your story.  Professor Meiring ?
PROF. MEIRING: Miss Kadi, will you please stand and raise your hand into the air.  Will you please take the oath, saying, everything I say is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

RUSSELL ALLY: Lilian, welcome.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you for coming.  You're coming to speak about a number of incidents that happened to many members of your family and in particular about Bennet Kadi.  Events which take place over quite a long period, beginning in 1993 and then extending right into 1994.  So, if you could please just go through what happened to your family and in particular to Bennet.  Thank you.

UNKNOWN: It was on Thursday, at night, around 12 o'clock.  Somebody came and wake us up, saying people are crowded at the shop and they were singing ANC slogans and they are looting at the restaurant and the restaurant is burning.  That's why father walk up to that place.  When he arrived there he saw many people, therefore you couldn't do anything.  He turned back and went to the police next to the Botswana border.  He came with the police.
 When they arrived there the shop was gutted.  Then they went home whilst those people are still there.  They came home.  They found the police there and then the police shot them and they ran away, then the police were coming in many instances and protecting.  They would come for thirty minutes and leave.  After  four days, it was during the day and my parents were sitting under the tree, I was sleeping at that time, I could hear a sound but I thought I was dreaming, then I slept again.  Then I could hear stone throwing.  My parents ran away and went into the house and outside were full of people holding ANC flags and placards and throwing stones inside the house and the house was burning.  We were sitting inside the house not knowing what to do.  The house was burning, the floor was burning, the ceiling was burning and the ceiling was falling on the ground.  We would run to the rooms where there is no fire and later the whole house was gutted to the ground.  Not knowing what to do, we ran outside the house and they were throwing, still throwing stones.  A certain boy came to  help  me.  A  certain  one  came with a spear then he tried to stab me but the boy who helped me, protected me.  I was hit with stones and some of my teeth were removed, my two siblings were able to run away.  
 In the house was my father and my uncle and inside they were burnt by that fire, then they ran out, then my father wanted to jump the fence.  A certain boy came with a spade and slapped him and then he fell on the ground.  He was pulled outside but my uncle was able to run for a distance.  After that he was caught and there was a container of diesel, they were put just next to that container and they were slapped with those spades.  They took tyres which were outside and put them on their neck and they were burnt.  
 After that the police came after three hours they were taken and all of us, together with my, with my brother, we were taken to the hospital.  They took my father and my uncle to the mortuary.  The police came after two weeks to take the statement.  From there we submitted our statement, then we went to court but we were not  informed to come to court, but I went to the police station to ask them, why did they take statements and they don't want us to come to court, but the police said they were afraid of the confusion because those people would come, so they were waiting for come.  The court case proceeded.  Those people who were arrested, were given bail, because we gave them names of people who were leaders.  Even up to-day, we didn't go, the court case didn't proceed.  Even when, even to-day, they still say, they are still investigating about those people.

RUSSELL ALLY: Lilian, just to get something straight.  Your father was not the only one that was killed in this incident, your uncle was also killed, also burnt ?

UNKNOWN: Yes, both of them died.

RUSSELL ALLY: J Kadi, what was his name, the name of your uncle ?

UNKNOWN: The one who died ?  His name is Justice Kadi.

RUSSELL ALLY: And he was your father's brother and this ... ?

UNKNOWN: That's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Has anybody besides you made at statement about your late uncle, Mr Justice Kadi, other family members ?

UNKNOWN: That's myself only and my brother.

RUSSELL ALLY: You also mention your,  a brother, and what happened to him ?  He was eight years old at the time, your younger brother?

UNKNOWN: He was eight years at that time.

RUSSELL ALLY: And what did happen to him, because you put him down as, as... ?

UNKNOWN: He  lost some teeth because we were hit with stones and we had, both me and him, we had just injuries.

RUSSELL ALLY: And another sister, a younger sister as well ?

UNKNOWN: That's myself and my brother.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now can you tell us a little bit about your father the late Bennet Kadi because you speak in your statement about his political activities, maybe you can just tell us a little bit more ?

UNKNOWN: I only know that my father was a member of parliament and that's nothing more I know about his political activity.

RUSSELL ALLY: He was a member of parliament in Mangope's government, Chief Mangope's government?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And  you don't know for how long or when he became a member of parliament.  You don't know, do you know any of those details ?

UNKNOWN: He started to be a member of parliament in the inception of the Boputhatswana government.

RUSSELL ALLY: In 77, since 1977?

UNKNOWN: That's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was he just a member of parliament or did he have, do you know if  he, if he was ever in the cabinet or did he have any other senior position ?

UNKNOWN: He was just and honorary member of parliament.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your father was also a businessman, not so ?

UNKNOWN: Yes,  he was a businessman.

RUSSELL ALLY: What businesses did he have ?

UNKNOWN: He had two shops.

RUSSELL ALLY: There's conflict because you say that the people who came to your house on that particular day, that they were, that you said that were shouting ANC slogans did you say that?

UNKNOWN: That's true, I said that.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did they have any ANC T-shirts or flags or anything, or was it just that they were shouting ANC slogans ?

UNKNOWN: They were having ANC placards and ANC flags.

RUSSELL ALLY: These slogans, can you remember, can you tell us, give us an example of one of the slogans which was shouted ?

UNKNOWN: No, I cannot give you an example.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now, before this, this incident  where your house was attacked and burnt were  there  any  other  clashes  between  your  father  and members of the village people, who you say, who you think belonged to the ANC ?

UNKNOWN: There was no conflict between my father and the local residents, but some members of the ANC, yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now can you tell us about this, give us examples of this ?

UNKNOWN: They to our house, you know, passing and  then they would shout and say, he has built a big house with the government's money and that they're going to use that house to be an ANC office.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your father, did he ever speak about what was happening ?  Did he ever speak to you about what was happening ?

UNKNOWN: No, he was not communicating with us about that, in that regard.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your mother  at the time, where was she ?