Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR JANSEN: public to implicate the ANC, and always blaming it, make it look as if it is the ANC that killed their own members.  That was, for instance, also what - the impression that they tried to create with the askaris when they shot Brian Ngulungwa.  His own colleagues came out as facts in the Gene de Kock trial, with an AK47 to give the impression that he was killed by the ANC.

MR JANSEN: Yes.  Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no further re-examination other than these documents that I wish to hand up.  I am sure that we could have those documents ready within the next 10 minutes or so, if we could possible then just adjourn for a short while.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you hand these documents in to Mshe, to pass them on to the Committee?

MR JANSEN: Yes.  Yes, Mr Chairman, and I will also make - ensure that the representative for Mr Khondile has them as well.  Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JANSEN

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mshe - you are excused for the time being, Mr Coetzee.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much, Mr Chairman.

MR MSHE: Mr Chairman, I am told by my colleague, legal representative for the Khondile family, that he is not calling anybody to testify.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MSHE: Then therefore, Mr Chairman, I have in my possession a letter that was received by myself today by fax.  It comes from one of the implicated persons upon whom we have served a notice.  Mr Chairman, that is Lothar Neethling, and he has written his statement, and urges that his letter be read into the record, and that there
	/should
should be proof that it has been read into his record.  If the Chairman allows me I am going to read it.  It is not a long letter.

CHAIRPERSON: This is a letter addressed to the Commissioner, TRC, from Mr Lothar Neethling?

MR MSHE: Yes, Mr Chairman, but it is a response to our Form 2 that was sent to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Please read it into the record.

MR MSHE: It says,
"The Commissioner, TRC.
Sir, I am writing to you in connection with the notification received by me on the 1st of November 1996 at 19:10 in terms of the provisions of section 19 (4) of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act 34 of 1995.  I am presently indisposed, having recently undergone major surgery, and I am due to be hospitalised again this week.  I will obviously in these circumstances be unable to attend your hearing.  I have taken note of the contents of your notification and wish to comment as follows.  I deny most emphatically the allegations of Dirk Coetzee, and I deny further that I was in any way whatsoever involved in the alleged murder of a Gonisiwe Khondile.  I have become aware over the past years of various unfounded and untrue allegations made by Dirk Coetzee, in particular against
	/myself.
myself.  The said allegations were considered by the Full Bench of the Appellate Division, including the Honourable the Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa.  I respectfully refer you to the reported decision of Neethling v du Preez and Others.  I concur fully with the findings of the Appellate Division, and I respectfully refer you in particular to the finding regarding Coetzee's evidence on page 801, where CJ CORBETT said his capacity for deception, mendacity and the fabrication of false evidence, and his ingenuity in this regard.  I require the above submissions to be read into the record, and to be taken into consideration by the Commission.  Kindly confirm in writing to the above address that my submissions have been read into the record.  I further reserve all my rights in the above regard, including my constitutional rights in terms of the provisions of the Constitution Act 200 of 1993.  If there are further aspects relating to the above matter do not hesitate to contact me at the above address, or telephone me at the address given below.  Yours faithfully, L P Neethling."
	/That is
That is all, Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: This letter bears the date 14th of November 1996, and will be entered into the record as Exhibit E.
LETTER HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT E

MR MSHE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: The 4th of November.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, I now ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen, have you see this letter?

MR JANSEN: We have just received a copy, Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, I do have those documents now, which I wish to hand up.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your reaction to this letter, Exhibit E?

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, I have no objection to it going in as an exhibit.  I think the probative value thereof is of no real concern.  It's obviously for General Neethling to decide whether he can, health permitting, assist the Commission in whatever way at a later stage.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible)  ... the documents you wish to hand in.

MR JANSEN: Yes, Mr Chairman.  I think conveniently it should go in as a bundle, being F, I would imagine.

CHAIRPERSON: How many documents are there?

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, I haven't counted them.  (Pause)  There are 13 pages, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: 13 different documents?

MR MSHE: No.  No, 13 pages.   There are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven - there are eight documents, Mr Chairman.
/CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Collectively should they be referred as Exhibit F?

MR JANSEN: Yes, Mr Chairman.  And if I could also just refer you to the brief content of the - it's the fourth page of that bundle.

WILSON J: (Inaudible) ... page 29.

MR JANSEN: Yes, it's page 29, and it's dated the 11th of September 1981, and it's a report of an informant of some sort, and it is here where the different allegations relating to Mr Khondile's disappearance is set out.  And then the other documents also relate to Mr Khondile, and on the face of it it seems there are allegations made, or information is placed on record as to the information that he gave or that emanated from him.  I think it would ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Where does that appear?

MR JANSEN: Well, on the third page, Mr Chairman, it says,
"Sizwe Khondile beweer dat uitgewekenes wel - that people did get training in Maseru for using firearms.  This training was done after March, this training in theory."
Just after that, page 29 (1), in other words the fifth page, he says in a sort of a telegram style - it also sets out various different facts relating to Mr Khondile.  Again I would submit that the value and the context hereof should be left for argument at a later stage.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   Mr Mshe, does this bring the proceedings to an end for the time being?
/MR MSHE

MR MSHE: Mr Chairman, that concludes the Khondile matter, and at the same time concludes the hearing for this week in Durban.

CHAIRPERSON: The date and venue of the subsequent hearing, are we in a position to finalise that at this stage?

MR MSHE: Mr Chairman, not yet, but the dates are still certain.  The only problem is with the venue, Mr Chairman, which will be made known to the Committee Members as early as Monday.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MSHE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen, you're aware that the resumed hearing will take place at some other venue and not here.

MR JANSEN: Yes, I am fully aware of that, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mshe, what is the date to which it is being adjourned?

MR MSHE: The dates will be the 25th to the 29th of November, Mr Chairman.  25th to 29th of this month.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  I adjourn this hearing, which is to be resumed on the 25th of November, and will proceed until the 29th of November, at a venue to be determined as soon as it is reasonably convenient to do so.  That brings to an end today's hearing.
PROCEEDINGS  ADJOURNED  TO  1996/11/25
/TRANSCRIBER'S