Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-15

REV QUMZA: I hurt a lot for the mother.  He was working for his mother and he was - he got shot.  There was no court case, just to hear exactly what went on.  We wherefore had to gather as Capetonians - we have an organization called  [indistinct]  to help each other bury members of our families.  We therefore helped each other to bury Malusi.  
 Capetonians therefore could not go to Mbekweni and people from Mbekweni to Cape Town.  We had to clean our bank accounts so as to help Malusi's mother.  Malusi's mother was in deep pain - weeping.  If the police could help us because we were struggling.  These police - it is as a result of these police that I had no money to continue with my education.  It is only now that I continue with my education.
 Therefore if I could get some sort of reparation to - to help me.

REV XUNDU: So your request as a Reverent - you spent money - you spent money on Malusi therefore you need to be helped in a monetary way as well.

REV QUMZA: Secondly I will ask  that Malusi's mother would be helped.  This was his - this was her youngest son.  Therefore as an elderly person if her heart somehow be helped - if the Truth Commission could help her as she has lost her son.

REV XUNDU: Had - did Malusi not have any rights at his workplace?

REV QUMZA: We went to his workplace, there was no back pay there.  He only earned for the hours that he worked for.  We went to try to get an employment card for Malusi - the card we got stated that Malusi is dead - his employment card is also dead.

REV XUNDU: Could you give us the name of the firm that employed him because we need to investigate.

REV QUMZA: I beg your pardon.

REV XUNDU: Could you give us the address of Malusi's ex-employers so that we could investigate if there is - there's any money that is due to Malusi.  We would investigate should you give us the address.

REV QUMZA: I will give you the address.

REV XUNDU: Is there a tombstone or a stone that commemorates Malusi?

REV QUMZA: There is nothing to commemorate Malusi.  My elder brother is paralyzed - his leg is paralyzed.  His one eye is blind therefore we emptied our pockets and just took a piece of wood and wrote his name on it.

REV XUNDU: Maybe you would have a request for his tombstone.

REV QUMZA: I would be very glad that we get a tombstone for Malusi so that even his siblings would see the tombstone.

REV XUNDU: I will give you back to the - Mr Chairperson but I want to thank you for  having come here to give your testimony.  I realized that the Reverend's in this area played a big roll in this struggle.  The effort that Christians took in this area is great although the church would make mistakes now and again but there are those churches who stand together with the people of the community in order to help.  It is good to have churches that are trustworthy in the community, thank you.

REV QUMZA: Thank you very much.

<UNKNOWN>: Reverent a number of questions I'd like to ask.  Firstly you told us that your a minister of the C.C.A.C - what does that stand for?

REV QUMZA: Christian Catholic Church in  [indistinct]

<UNKNOWN>: Christian Catholic Church  [indistinct]

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you very much, the second questions.  Can you remember the date of this happening when Malusi was shot?

REV QUMZA: I don't remember the date exactly, I remember the month.  According to our church regulations when we would go towards the 10th of October and it was a public in the previous regime.  We would them take the Thursday and make it a long 
week-end.  As  [indistinct]  would be on public holiday we would them take the long week-end and use it to discuss the issues of our church.  I don't remember the date particularly.

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] long week-end is on the 10th of October 1986.  That will help us a lot.  Another question which you said that nobody was allowed to help Malusi - he was shot and he was there - laying there and the police allowed nobody to help him.  And only at 11 o'clock the next morning you were able to go to him.  Is it possible that he - that he could have lived if you were able to help him directly - to take him with an ambulance to the hospital or was he killed on ...[intervention]

REV QUMZA: If Malusi had been helped - if an ambulance at leased would have come or if we were allowed to take him in our cars and take him to hospital.  As Tygerberg has some doctors that I know personally, perhaps Malusi would still be alive to this day.  There are people that worked until 12 o'clock got there, he was still alive - he was still struggling.  The hospital would definitely have been able to help him somehow.

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] his body?

REV QUMZA: He was shot at the back of his neck.

<UNKNOWN>: This question has to do with his old mother who's very infirm, who can not attend today.  Who's looking after the mother at the moment?

REV QUMZA: As we speak here the mother is at home.  She is alive today because we feed her, we give her food now and again.  Her husband - she does not belong to my church.

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] he helps her?

REV QUMZA: No the husband is passed away.  She's the only one who's still alive at home.  She gets a pension.  She also gets something from her vegetation, now and again we also give her money.  Sometime she would write to us and ask for money, we would give her the money should we have it.

<UNKNOWN>: [indistinct] what the pension is, how much money she receives every month.

REV QUMZA: I'd be lying if I said I knew, I don't know sir, I don't know at all.

<UNKNOWN>: Those were my questions.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson, Reverent just one issue.  Why did the community refer to this group of policemen as INKATHA?

REV QUMZA: These police came from Durban, they had come  [indistinct]  Allandale next to the Paarl Prison.  They call it  Allandale, it was a huge camp with soldiers as well.  These are not Capetonian police or PE or Queenstown.  You could even hear the accent, there's a difference.
They spoke Zulu, you could easily determine and distinguish that they're not from here.  They would identify themselves as Gutsha Buthelesi's police - the INKATHA.  We excepted the truth that they give to us, when I got to Queenstown and I identify myself as an ANC member people are going to refer to me as an ANC member, people are not going to dispute that.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] to say that if appears as if this was a group of police officers who were brought in especially from elsewhere to deal with the community here in Paarl, particularly Mbekweni?

REV QUMZA: That is a big truth, they are the cause of the slaughter of many people here in Paarl.