Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-07

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.  After I left the course - we had a course at Tongaat - it was a police course.  After completing the course, I went back to Esikhaweni.  I was told that as a fact from Neville Melville.  I don't remember well, but I think he was a police reporter at that time.  He had arrived at Brigadier Khomo Mzimela ... (intervention)

MR MACADAM: This person you referred to is Mr Neville Melville, who was the police reporting officer.  Thank you.

MR MACADAM: /Thank you.

MR MACADAM: 2A Thank you.  The Brigadier told me that he is the one who sent the fax which stated that the Brigadier should transfer me as soon as possible and remove me from Esikhaweni because there is an investigation regarding my involvements - it was involving the death of people.  I tried to refuse for the Brigadier to transfer me, and he said, "If you don't want to move then you will expect more things to happen.  Maybe if you were to agree and go away things are going to be better", and he said I don't have to worry, I should agree to be transferred and I should agree and they would continue with the investigation, and he asked me which police station do I prefer.  Since I had a house at Dundee which I had just recently bought and which Dundee doesn't have the KwaZulu Police Station, the nearest was Nqutu, and I will be able to work at Nqutu and sleep at my home.  I asked him if he would transfer - it's better to transfer me to Nqutu.  I was transferred at night at about 12 o'clock and that was the first time for me to see a transfer being arranged at 12 o'clock.  I took my few belongings and left.  After some few days, working at Nqutu - I don't remember how many days, maybe five or six - a call came from the murder and robbery, Empangeni.  It came through to the station commander's office.  The station commander at Nqutu at that time was Lieutenant E N Masinga.  He called me and said there was a call for me, after having talked with the people on the phone himself.  In that conversation I had to speak to a white sergeant.  He introduced himself as Sergeant Croucamp, Sidney Croucamp.  He said he is working under the murder and robbery unit at Empangeni.

MR MACADAM: The South African Police Murder and Robbery Unit?

MR MACADAM: /---  Yes,

MR MACADAM: 2A

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.  He said he had a docket which was opened with regards to my involvement in the killing of people.  He said he will be coming to Nqutu to talk to me.  I asked him when was he coming and he said he will be coming on the very same day or on the following day, and it was a Friday.  It was August 1993.  I told him that he shouldn't come on that particular day, which was Friday and also he shouldn't come on the week-end because I had some plans.  There was something I had to go and do at my home.  We agreed that he would come on the following week.  I left the station commander's office.  The moment I was getting out of the office, just outside and I was moving towards the barracks I came across Constable Mbambo - Constable Patrick Mbambo was stationed at Ulundi.  He was in the LA Protection Unit, which was under Captain Langeni.  This constable was an ex-Caprivi trainee.  He was also present when we were training to become police.  I was also surprised to see him at Nqutu, because I knew that he was based at Ulundi.  I tried to greet him, but he said I should go straight to the gate.  It came to my mind that there is something and he said, "You should rush to the gate and you will find Nicky".  Nicky was a code name, which was used by the Caprivians, referring to Madlanduna.  As I was approaching the gate, I saw Madlanduna coming towards me - slowly walking towards the police station.  He didn't enter.  He was passing the gate, going towards the garage - the filling station which was near the police station.  Our eyes met and he signalled to me that I should turn to the left and proceed towards the filling station.  I did that without having communicated with him verbally.  When I arrived at the garage, to which I was

MR MACADAM: /instructed by

MR MACADAM: 2A instructed by him to go I found a Sierra which was blue in colour.  It was written - it's registration number was ZP555 - and I realised that he was referring me to that car.  As I was approaching the car, I could see inside that there was Constable Isaac Shobe ... [end of tape]

MR MACADAM: 2B ... at the KwaZulu Police.  However, he was stationed at Ulundi at the time I was stationed at Esikhaweni.  As I was approaching this car, he signalled to me and - he has since died.  He signalled to me to get into the car and I entered the car.  Madlanduna also came and he got into the car, and also Patrick Mbambo.  We drove away.  We took the main road in the direction to Ulundi.  Madlanduna said the white people are behind me and it's possible I will be arrested as soon as possible, and he had been sent by Captain Langeni to come and fetch me in order to decide what they were going to do about my matter.  I said, "Are you just going to pick me like this?".  He said, "Yes, we have to go".  I said to them, "I haven't made any arrangement.  I thought I will be going to my birthplace during the week-end", and the way I was dressed I had nothing.  I don't know when I'm going to come back.  Madlanduna said to me, "You know the life of a soldier".  I tried to insist that we should turn so that I can take some few things - clothes and some toiletries.  They agreed and made a U-turn and went back.  I went to Lieutenant Masinga and I stayed there since there was place for me at the barracks, because I was only to go to Dundee maybe at the week-end.  I went in, took some street clothes and toiletries.  I got into the car and we left - went straight to Ulundi and we went to Madlanduna's office, which was in A.  Madlanduna made a call to Captain

MR MACADAM: /Langeni.  Captain

MR MACADAM: 2B Langeni.  Captain Langeni was in the Legislative Assembly.  They talked on the phone and agreed that we will meet in the evening.  On that very same evening I, myself, with Madlanduna, with Mbambo - I am not referring to the Mbambo who is here today, I'm referring to Patrick Mbambo - we went to look for Captain Langeni in his office.  We were told that he had already left and we didn't find him.  We had to call him.  However, on that particular night we agreed that we are going to meet at Constable Mbambo's house.  It was in D, if not C Section.  I would say it was in D Section, because the houses were near each other.  It was dark, somewhere around 7 o'clock, and we left with Madlanduna.  We saw a car which was approaching and Captain Langeni was standing somewhere there and we proceeded to Captain Mbambo's place and we entered.  The car followed us.  Inside the car he was with Minister Mzimela.  Not the Mzimela to whom I referred as a District Commander at Esikhaweni.  It is this Mzimela who was the Secretary to the KwaZulu Legislature - his name was Robert Mzimela.  They entered Patrick Mbambo's house, and we had a meeting there regarding my matter.  A suggestion came out that I should be taken to hide - I'm not going to refer to Inkatha hidings, because the witness yesterday mentioned the hidings at Venda, Mkhuze and other places, where they could have hid me.  I could say even at Johannesburg, where they once hid Madlanduna there.  I refused to go into hiding.  I said I'm not prepared to run for the rest of my life, running away from the police.  I told them I am also police.  I also told them that the Government has all my information.  Therefore I can't leave on the run.  I knew that I couldn't stay away from

MR MACADAM: /my children