Amnesty Hearings — Benoni — 1998-09-07

MR KOOPEDI: Mr Chairman, I would ask for some direction here.  I am not sure what this Committee proposes to do.  When this Committee proposes to close for the day.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly not now.

MR KOOPEDI: I would then ask or request to call the third applicant, I wanted to indicate that I wanted to call him, but was not sure when the Committee intends breaking up, thank you.
	The next applicant is Mr Ndlovu.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, page 28 - 34.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlovu, which language would you prefer to use?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: English.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you comfortable with that?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes.

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: (sworn states)

MR KOOPEDI: May I have an indulgence for a second please, there is a document I am trying to find.

ADV MOTATA: Whilst your counsel is finding a document, how do you pronounce or spell your second name?  I am not sure of the spelling on page 28 of the second name?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Mabore.  Actually it was misprinted because during those days, we had problems.  Now my name is being changed to be Mabore, my real name is Mabope.

MR KOOPEDI: I have found the document I was looking for, if I may proceed Mr Chairman.  Thank you for the indulgence.
	Is it correct that you are one of the applicants in this matter and an applicant in terms of you being, or having been a member of the Johannes Nkosi Unit?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Could you speak up to the microphone?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Now, would you tell the Commissioners, the Honourable Committee Members before we go into the details of the acts for which you are applying amnesty, who you are, when were you born, when did you join the ANC?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Okay, actually what I will do is I will read the biography that has been prepared.
	My name is Alfas Mabore Ndlovu.  The address is 35 Esangweni Section, Tembisa.  The date of birth, 1964-07-02.  I joined the ANC and the People's Revolutionary Army, MK in September 1985.
	I joined the liberation forces during the time when colonialism and perilous forces were displaying African people in particular, and killing them.  The total full, calculated military aggression against the front line States, suppression of student bodies, that is COSAS and working class formations (indistinct).
	The military skills which I acquired within the ranks of the African National Congress and Umkonto We Sizwe is as follows:  I received the following military training in Angola in 1985.  I have done the following courses, military engineering, politics, firearms, military tactics, typography, physical training and artillery.
	Further I went to Cuba and I have done the following course, that is suburban warfare, Commander's course in the year 1986.
	And furthermore, I have done military combat work in 1989, that is the former Soviet Union.  That is finished.

MR KOOPEDI: Now, will you tell the Honourable Committee members, the offences for which you are applying for amnesty.

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually what I would say is that I am applying for all offences which my fellow applicants spoke about.

MR KOOPEDI: Will you please enumerate them?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Number 1, that is the bombing of "Kitskonstabels" in Mnisi Section, Katlehong.

MR KOOPEDI: ...[inaudible] for which you are applying for amnesty.

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually what I would say is that I am applying for all offences which my fellow applicants spoke about.

MR KOOPEDI: Would you please enumerate that?
MR NDLOVU
1)	Number 1: That is the bombing of "Kitskonstabels" in Mnisi Section, Katlehong.
2)	The bombing of sewerage pipes in Sunwatt Park.  
3)	The bombing of "Kitskonstabels" and SAP.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on, the bombing of the "Kitskonstabels" in Mnisi Section, what did you so there?  What was your role in that?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: My role was that physically and practically I went there to execute the operation and even part of the planning.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Okay, the second one is the bombing of the sewerage pipe.  In this one I do agree with my fellow applicants, that together being a unit that was stationed or to organise activities around East Rand, I also planned and approved the operations that it must executed.  ...[indistinct] the planning.
4)	The third one: Ambush of the "Kitskonstabels" and SAP in the Motsamai Section.
My role, it was that I went there physically and I took part in the execution of the operation.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: By carrying an AK rifle and went there to demoralise the enemy by firing shots.
5)	The other one is the bombing of Wimpy Bar.
And this one I went there personally to execute the operation.  
6)	The bombing of the rail line and electrical sub-station next to Katlehong Station.
My role was that I went there physically to execute the operation in benefit of our people.
7)	The last one - not last.  The bus terminus in Germiston.
I also took part in planning and giving the approval with other comrades and my commanders, that the operation should be carried out.

MR KOOPEDI: Is it correct that the incidents that you are referring to are all enumerated on page 10 of Exhibit A?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes.

MR KOOPEDI: Is it also correct that in all these operations, even though you did not personally, you may not have personally carried out or executed an act, however you were involved in the planning thereof?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes, I was involved in the planning and the other things, the operations which were being carried out by our sub-unit.  That is the attacks against councillors.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I didn't hear that one.

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: I'm talking about the attacks against councillors.

SISI KHAMPEPE: What about them, did you also take part in their planning?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the names or identities of these councillors who were victims or possible victims?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: No, I don't know the identities.

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't know if any attack took place?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually through media we heard the reports ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know yourself?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know yourself?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually I'm trying to indicate that operations were being carried out, especially by our sub-unit.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But didn't your sub-unit come back to report to you as people who must have been higher than them, about how they had fared with the operations?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually, when it comes to that issue, they do give reports but it was not possible or easier to locate our comrades, especially in the sub-units, to give proper reports because we also were operating under difficult conditions which were by that time, it was not conducive enough for our units to operate.  We operated under difficult conditions.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Difficult conditions which made it impossible for your sub-units to come back and give you reports about operations that you had given them instruction to execute?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Yes, that's too difficult to locate our  units, especially after operations you find that, let's say a person might be under serious stress or either fear of being caught, would take retreat position or take underground retreat.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How many instructions did you give to these sub-units to carry out in respect of the councillors?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually the instructions which we gave is that they were collective, not as an individual.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Was it at one given time or were you able to meet and give them further instructions with regard to the conduct of further operations?

ALFAS MABORE NDLOVU: Actually what I can say on that issue is that we do, sometimes we do meet but not meeting - how can I put it, regularly.