Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   Yes, on my return to Bergville I spoke to van den Heever telephonically about this incident and related matters.  He told me that the special constable was taken out because he had a green pocket book with a record of the activities committed by the members of the Riot Unit, and that this special constable was going to reveal the information.

WILSON J: Could I also raise one matter?  My brother has mentioned paragraph 150.  When Mr Mitchell gave evidence a few minutes ago in setting out the last sentence he said, "He would use this information if the pressure was put on him regarding this case."  It should be "this

WILSON J: /"information."

WILSON J: information."

WITNESS:   "This" is the word.  That's right, M'Lord.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: In that case, Mr du Toit, it solves my problem.  It solves my problem.

MR DU TOIT: I think it does, yes.  Now, as I have said, after the judgment certain remarks were made, and I would like you to come to paragraph 156.  Would you read the quote that you have drawn there from the judgment by WILSON J.

WITNESS:   After sentence WILSON J made certain remarks.  The Judge said an inquiry should be held into the part played by the Joint Management System in the events at Trust Feed.

MR DU TOIT: Ja.

WITNESS:   And whether it was desirable that members of the South African Police should be involved in such an organisation, a counter revolutionary body.  I quote,

MR DU TOIT: "The next matter which I think should be inquired into is the part played by the Joint Management Committee or System, if any, in the events at Trust Feed, and whether it was desirable that members of the South African Police should be concerned in such an organisation, a counter revolutionary body.  It appears from the evidence of accused No 3 that the South African Police in fact played - and played ..."

MR DU TOIT: (intervention)

MR DU TOIT: Or played.

MR DU TOIT: "Or played a leading role in this organisation.  Connected with this is

MR DU TOIT: /"the part

MR DU TOIT: "the part played by accused No 3 and his predecessor as station commander at New Hanover in the formation of a Landowners Committee, which was clearly of a political nature, and whether it is proper for members of the South African Police, particularly commissioned officers and station commanders, to participate in the formation of such political bodies, which will then be involved in political disputes which exist in this country."

MR DU TOIT: And the next paragraph, read that please.

MR DU TOIT: "It is clear from accused No 3's evidence that he and Captain Terblanche contemplated using members of the South African Police to assist one of the political parties to the extent of committing murder on their behalf, and I think it should be in the general interest that there should be a full inquiry as to whether similar operations have been conducted in the past by the Riot Unit or by Captain Terblanche or by any other officer."

MR DU TOIT: Was this inquiry into these two vital aspects ever held?

WITNESS:   No, it was not.

MR DU TOIT: Was it in your interest that there should have been such an inquiry?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was.

MR DU TOIT: Did I ask you to disclose the information which you have there?

WITNESS:   Yes, you did.

MR DU TOIT: /And did

MR DU TOIT: And did you?

WITNESS:   Not at the time, no.

MR DU TOIT: Paragraph 158.  You have a view that you express there, please.

WITNESS:   Sorry, say it again.

MR DU TOIT: Yes, in paragraph 158, please express that view.

WITNESS:   Okay.

MR DU TOIT: "It was in my interests that it should be revealed that there was a strategy;  that there was a mistake made by the Security Force members because of the Nationalist Government's policy, and that the police were used by them to do their dirty work.  I for one would not be in the position I am today had I been a motor car salesman."

MR DU TOIT: Now, can we deal with paragraph 159.  With what motive did you commit the acts on the evening/morning in question?

WITNESS:   It was with a political objective.

MR DU TOIT: And what was the objective as you stated it there in paragraph 159?

MR DU TOIT: "It was to counter the revolutionary onslaught of the UDF/ANC, and to assist Inkatha against the UDF/ANC."

MR DU TOIT: Did you outside of the scope of your duties?

WITNESS:  Yes, I did.

MR DU TOIT: Outside?

WITNESS:   No, I did not.

MR DU TOIT: And did you receive orders?

WITNESS:   Sorry, again?

MR DU TOIT: Did you receive orders to commit those acts?

WITNESS:  Yes, I did.

MR DU TOIT: You have said from Captain Terblanche.  How did you see yourself as being engaged?

WITNESS:   I saw myself engaged in countering or resisting the struggle of the

MR DU TOIT: /political

MR DU TOIT: political organisations.

MR DU TOIT: WILSON J found that your acts were not committed with a political motive as political is normally understood, but he did find that you did not seek to satisfy a personal motive.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

MR DU TOIT: Was there any personal motive involved here?

WITNESS:  No, there was not.

MR DU TOIT: Did you receive any remuneration?  Were you involved in the acts because you were being paid?

WITNESS:   No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: This was not one of the events that resulted in your getting a medal?

WITNESS:   No, M'Lord.

MR DU TOIT: At paragraph 145, if we may just return to that for the moment, Mr Chairperson, on page 32.  Did you seek the death of women and children, Mr Mitchell?

WITNESS:  No, I did not.

MR DU TOIT: And that was accepted by the Trial Court, the Trial Judge and the two Assessors, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DU TOIT: I have a reference, if I may.  The reference in respect of women and children is found on page 616 of Volume III of the judgment, and the second is 614.  Pages 616 and 614 in Volume III, referring to the judgment of WILSON J and the two Assessors on mitigation and mitigating factors.  614 and 616, Mr Chairperson.   Mr Chairperson, my learned junior, Advocate Naidoo, will conclude the examination with your permission.

MR DU TOIT: QUESTIONED BY MR NAIDOO

MR DU TOIT: Mr Mitchell, are you now desirous of making amends?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

MR DU TOIT: /Yes.   ---

MR DU TOIT: Yes.

WITNESS:   Although it may be impossible to do it, but I am desirous of that.

MR DU TOIT: Yes.  Now with hindsight, having gone through the experience you have, have you acquired any greater understanding of the acts and the situation?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do understand now why it happened and how it came about.

MR DU TOIT:  	And do you have any better understanding of the struggle of the liberation movements?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.  I understand now why and what they were struggling for, and that just as much as they were struggling for their own freedom they were struggling for the freedom of the whites.

MR DU TOIT: And is there now a shift in the values you used to hold previously?

WITNESS:   Yes, absolutely.

MR DU TOIT: What is that shift?

WITNESS:   I've become a Christian.  I am able to ... (incomplete)

MR DU TOIT: Yes.  Now ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   ... to rethink what I did in those years and why I did them.

MR DU TOIT: Yes.  Insofar as you've set yourself down in paragraph 161, that you've become a Christian and understand the value of forgiveness, will you let us have your thoughts on that?

WITNESS:   Yes.  I understand that forgiveness does not come cheaply.

MR DU TOIT: (END OF TAPE 3 - START OF TAPE 4)

MR BRINK: But how did that house come to chosen, or was it just a random shooting?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, this is where I have a bit of a problem in being able to explain why that particular house was taken out.  It's something that His Lordship, the Honourable WILSON J, and myself didn't agree on in the trial, and I can't explain why the special constables chose that particular house.