Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is true.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Did they tell you what the reason was?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they did.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: What was the reason?

UNKNOWN: They said they wanted my eldest brother Odirile.  After we knew about Japie's murder.  When we followed Japie trying to find him, even the time they abducted Japie from work, a day before that, they all arrested us together with our family.  We were gaoled in different prisons.  After that we came back the same day.  In the afternoon we looked for Japie at his girlfriend's place but he had not yet arrived.  That is when I started searching for him.  That is when they arrested myself and my family.  They asked us about Odirile, but we told them that we are looking for Japie.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: (Inaudible)

UNKNOWN: I went through all police stations myself.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: But they did not know or what?

UNKNOWN: They told me they don't know anything about Japie.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: But according to the information you received Japie was killed in 1985.  Your detention, I assume, was after the disappearance of Japie.

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is true.

UNKNOWN: Have you perhaps got any information about the bomb blast in Pretoria, the newspaper clipping or some more information that you could furnish us with?

UNKNOWN: I used to have them.   The problem is that when policemen started harassing us we threw away all the (indistinct) because they came like wild animals to us.  Then we tore everything.  I had a file containing all the
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evidence, but we were not able to keep such documents with us so we threw them away.

UNKNOWN: Can you still remember in which newspaper you read about it?

UNKNOWN: Yes, the other one was Vaderland.

UNKNOWN: Could you give us an approximate date of his death?

UNKNOWN: Honourable members, I cannot remember which date it was.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Amongst the police, I assume it was Security Police, whom you say harassed you.  Is there anybody in particular that you recall either as the person who was in apparent charge of the situation or who was most prominent?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there is one.  There is one from Krugersdorp that I clearly know.  Kleinhans.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: You don't by chance know what his rank was?

UNKNOWN: I don't know his rank, but he was the one who had a senior position in Krugersdorp.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Is that the only name you can remember now?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is the only name I can remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, are there are questions you wish to put in re-examination?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, there are no questions, but just to help the member of the Committee about the newspaper reportings.  I am told by the other brother who is sitting behind me that it was on 17 April 1988 and this appeared in the newspaper Beeld or Vaderland and Kleinhans was a Captain by then.  That is all.

CHAIRPERSON: What was it that happened on 17 April 1988?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: The newspaper report of the bomb blast on Odirile.  That is all, Mr Chairman.
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CHAIRPERSON: /...
224

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr Mpshe, his desire for his family to be told where the remains of Japie could be might be something that might be referred to the R&R Committee or the investigators, if it is at all possible to find out.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes, Mr Chairman, I have indicated this to him and to the briefer this morning.  Just for completeness sake.  The other brother, who was (indistinct) did testify in the HRV hearings about this very same incident, so they are aware of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Marais.

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, I recall the applicant, Mr Nofomela.  His evidence will deal with the incident in paragraph 16 on typed page 26 of his application.

ALMOND NOFOMELA: s u o

MR MARAIS: Mr Nofomela, you are now serving a prison term for a conviction on a charge of murder in 1986 on a farmer by the name of Lourens in the Brits area, is that correct?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MARAIS: During your trial you denied any involvement in this murder and your presence at the scene of the murder totally.

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Why did you deny it?

MR NOFOMELA: After the case I went to tell Captain Eugene de Kock at the time, my commander, and he said that if you should be arrested you should deny everything with regards to this matter.  I will assist you and I will speak to my superiors about this matter as well.

MR MARAIS: Nevertheless you were convicted of this murder and sentenced to death, is that correct?
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MR NOFOMELA: /...
MR MARAIS	225	A NOFOMELA

MR NOFOMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MARAIS: Then on the 19th October 1989, the evening before you were due to be executed, you made a statement regarding your involvement in the activities that you are now seeking amnesty for, correct?

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: In this statement you also denied your involvement in the murder of Lourens.

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Subsequent to that you gave evidence at the Harms Commission where you admitted that you stabbed Mr Lourens several times and that he died because of that.

MR NOFOMELA: Yes.

MR MARAIS: Can you explain to the Committee now how this killing occurred?

MR NOFOMELA: It was on 11 September.  I remember it was during the day, I cannot remember what time it was, I was with Johnny Mohani, who came to me and told me where - I knew where Lourens and them stayed - but he said to me that Lourens and them have money, lots and lots of money in their house which we can go and steal.  So I did not have money at the time and I had a large family to take care of at home and the money which I obtained by going out to work in places like Durban and Rustenberg was money which I used to claim for travelling at Vlakplaas, and when De Kock came he said that I should not be sent out any more, that I should remain at Vlakplaas and I found that by staying at Vlakplaas I did not receive this extra money any more, and I had somewhat adjusted my budget to accommodate that and I had just bought a house and furniture and my car was at the garage and I had a lot of expenses and I found that what
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Johnny Mohani was saying to me about this money that we were going to go and steal there seemed like a good idea and I agreed because of my financial problems.  When we got to Mr Lourens's house we found him there and when he appeared he said to me, what are you kaffirs doing on my farm?  And he was carrying a firearm and there was no chance for me to run away.  That annoyed me, the fact that he called me a kaffir, especially when I thought of the way which I worked at Vlakplaas because quite often I worked for whites who were oppressing blacks and today here a white man is calling me a kaffir.  This term that I absolutely resented.  I was angry and he grabbed me and we wrestled for the firearm he had.  I had a knife and  firearm in my possession.  While we were wrestling I took out the knife and I stabbed him with it.  He fell with the firearm.  From there onwards I found that Johnny had already gone inside and I called him, not knowing what he had found inside the house.  I lit a candle which I had found and put it under the curtain to set the curtain alight so that whoever arrived there would think that the house had burnt down to eliminate any traces of even Johnny's fingerprints if police were to arrive.  We did not proceed to do what we had set out to do because of what then happened between Mr Lourens and myself.

MR MARAIS: Would you say that in your training at Vlakplaas and the work you did in the Security Police influenced you in the way you reacted when he spoke to you?