Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR MKHIZE: I cannot remember very well, but the only instruction was that we should now enter, because we were going to fight.
	We were tired of these people, we were dying every day, we were being killed, and we had to go and attack.

MR STRYDOM: In your own mind, you say that you wanted to attack and the people wanted to attack Boipatong, can you describe what you thought, what kind of attack would take place?

MR MKHIZE: Would you please repeat the question.

MR STRYDOM: You testified that you were going to attack Boipatong.  In your own mind, what was your decision, in which manner were you going to attack Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: We were going to avenge the death of many of our people, and we too, had to do the same attack and kill.
	We just went there to avenge the death of our fellow members.

MR STRYDOM: In your own mind, who would be the victims of the attack?

MR MKHIZE: What I had in my mind, was that people who were attacking us, were the Self Defence Units.  We had already heard that they were patrolling the streets at night, and these are the people that we wanted to attack and kill, because they were the ones who were burning people.

MR STRYDOM: These Self Defence Units, do you know at that stage, who was actually supporting them or responsible for them to be established?

MR MKHIZE: I am not in the position to say, I don't want to tell a lie.  I have no idea, but yes, we know that the people who were in charge of the township, were the Self Defence Units.

MR STRYDOM: How well, at that time, did you know Boipatong, the township itself?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I knew Boipatong.

MR STRYDOM: Did you know the name of the streets?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not know the names very well.  The one street that I knew, was only one Mzimvubu and Majola I think.  That was the street that I knew very well, not the others.
	It was a township where I used to catch a bus, the form of transport to work.

MR STRYDOM: I want you to explain how Boipatong was entered on that night.

MR MKHIZE: As I have already explained, we just gained entry into the township, but I cannot remember what street we used to gain entry.
	I did explain that I do not know the streets quite well.

MR STRYDOM: Can I ask you this way, did you enter from Vanderbijl Park's side or the factory side?

MR MKHIZE: From the main road from Vanderbijl Park, that is the direction that we took, and we proceeded towards the township.

MR STRYDOM: That main road, is that called Frikkie Meyer Boulevard?

MR MKHIZE: I think so.  Even though I do not know the name quite well, but I am referring to the big road with the traffic lights.  The one that is going to Sebokeng.

MR STRYDOM: Tell me, would you be in a position to explain to the Committee you have followed in Boipatong itself, after you entered Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.  I know the route that we took.

MR STRYDOM: Would you be able to explain the route if you looked at a map?  Would you be able, if you look at a map, to explain the route, or won't you be able to?

MR MKHIZE: I don't know, maybe I will be able to identify the route.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I think the Exhibit number is J, I just want to make sure, I just want to get my Exhibits at the back.
	I am going to show you a map of the Boipatong, if you just want to orientate yourself, and look at the map.  Do you understand the map?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Just to make sure that you understand the map, Frikkie Meyer Boulevard is to the left of this map, to the side, and the hostel is further to the left.
	Do you follow that?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I do follow that.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know the portion of the township called Slovo Park?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Do you see Slovo Park on the right hand side of this map?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, now I think I see where it is.

MR STRYDOM: During the course of the attack, did you go into Slovo Park?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, we did.

MR STRYDOM: We have already heard evidence of two groups, is that indeed so that there was a split up at a certain stage and two groups were formed?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Were you leading one of the groups?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Who led the other group?

MR MKHIZE: I think it was  Qunchu because I never got to see him again.  He was not in my group certainly.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.  With reference to Exhibit J, can you state the approximate route that was followed by your group?

MR MKHIZE: I think we were further down and the other group was further up.  We took the downward direction and there were no other people further down, except for ourselves.

MR STRYDOM: Did your group follow a route towards Slovo Park?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Shortly after the two groups entered Boipatong, what happened if anything?

MR MKHIZE: I cannot remember quite well, but when we arrived near the shops, we came across the Self Defence Unit members from whence we started exchanging gunfire and they ended up fleeing.

MR STRYDOM: Did you use your AK47 to shoot?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Which direction did you shoot?

MR MKHIZE: I shot towards the Self Defence Unit members.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know if you hit anybody by shooting?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not have information to that effect, but I can assume that people must have been shot because it was at night.  Yes, we did see some shadows.

MR STRYDOM: After that first shooting incident, what happened?  What did you do with your group?

MR MKHIZE: We proceeded on towards the downward direction, running after them, and they fled towards Slovo Park.

MR STRYDOM: Did you go into any houses at any stage whilst you were at Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, some people got into houses, but I did not because we were making sure that some of our own, are not attacked from behind, so we had to remain behind.

MR STRYDOM: Did you personally see anybody who was attacked and killed or injured?

MR MKHIZE: No.  No.  I only discovered the following morning, that there were many people who were really injured.

MR STRYDOM: Who was responsible for breaking all those windows in the township?

MR MKHIZE: I would say some of the people in our group, did that.  It was damaging and damaging all the way.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see any person or anyone of the attackers, in possession of any goods, stolen goods or things like that?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I only - well, I can say I did not see them quite well, but I only learnt the following day because when we got into people's apartments the following day at the hostel,  we learnt that some people brought home stolen property, but they had hidden some of these.
	That was not our instruction and that was not my instruction.

MR STRYDOM: You refer now to instruction, can you just tell us more about the instruction you gave during the course of that night?

MR MKHIZE: The instruction was that we should go and attack and kill and that is all.   We were meant to kill the people who were killing us all the time.

MR STRYDOM: When was this instruction given?

MR MKHIZE: The instruction came out when we left the hostel for Boipatong.  I indicated that we had no alternative.  We had to avenge.

MR STRYDOM: Approximately how long did this attack take place, before your group left the township again?

MR MKHIZE: I would not be certain, but I think it could have been one and a half hours to two hours, but it was not a very long time.  That is just but an estimation.

MR STRYDOM: During this period that the attack took place, did you see any military or police vehicles in the township?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not see any police or military vehicle, except for the one vehicle that we saw on our way out from the township.
	This vehicle was coming from the Vanderbijl direction.  That is the only vehicle that I can recall.

MR STRYDOM: Would that include Slovo Park, did you see any vehicles in Slovo Park, military or police vehicles?

MR MKHIZE: No.