Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — 1997-05-16

UNKNOWN: The questions that I am going to ask are now just to elicit some advice and commentary from you.  Your submissions focus our attention on the role of English South Africans in the conflicts of the past, e.g. the dominance of the economy, their even greater sense of superiority than Afrikaners in relation to the people of Africa, that is on page 7. Up till now there has been a lot of silence around the role and responsibility of this section of the White population in the work of the TRC.  Do you perhaps any suggestions for us how this silence may be addressed, the silence of the White population?

GEN VILJOEN: I see no sinister meaning in this.  I see this as a result of different cultural approaches to this point.  It just demonstrates how far the cultures are apart.  The White people, including the English people, have a different culture.  To them the proceedings of this Commission is not as appealing as to, for example, the Black population having suffered through the victims.  Even the victims of the White people do not go through the same emotional experience.  I think it is just a matter of difference of culture.
 Can I say also, that let's be frank.  The image of the Commission is not good enough at the moment, the image of the Commission is not acceptable to many of these people at the moment, as I have referred to in my presentation too.  I am not criticising the Commission, I am just saying, that in a way we are seen to have lost the idea of reconciling also that part.  A lot has been done for the reconciliation of the other part, but little has been done for the reconciliation of this part, because the methods applied by the Commission suits the one part of the culture, but it does not suit the other part of the culture.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: General Viljoen I wonder if you would care to comment on a statement that I am going to make now, and I say it as a so-called English-speaking South African, whatever that may mean.  It is my view that a large part of the English-speaking White South Africans have excluded themselves from the work of this Commission because they think, as some other groups think, that their hands are clean.  That a great deal of supposed opposition to apartheid was also anti-Afrikaner, and that it was the liberation forces who were resisting and caused so much trouble, it was the Afrikaner government, the National Party which was the antagonist in terms of its policies and practices and therefore the English-speaking White South African community can argue that they were not part of that and that they opposed both.
 You've heard it from one particular political party many times, which suggests that business, the economy, the professions, the English-speaking community simply don't have anything to be ashamed of or admit to or own up to or confess, and therefore the Commission really is very interesting and they listen with horror and whatever else, but it doesn't really touch them.  I mean that certainly is a view and I wonder how you see that.

GEN VILJOEN: Chairperson I think basically I agree.  I think that the English-speaking part of the population is probably standing back saying we have not been part of this fight, we have not been guilty, maybe they think their hands are clean, it's possible, but you know I think had the Commission followed the specific line of reconciliation and had more been done by the Commission towards active steps to find reconciliation, maybe the English-speaking community would then have been more eager to come in.  But I think you are right, they probably see themselves as not part of this dirty battle.
 In fact as I say this is not quite correct, because they were the more wealthy people.  The Afrikaners are the more poor element of the Whites, and they have, for a long period, benefitted from the apartheid system, I'm referring to labour, cheap labour and so on, possible.  But I don't want to speak for the English community, I think they should speak for themselves, but this is my perception too.  I think the English community is a very important community, and they certainly should, in a way, associate themselves.  There are many English-speaking people associating themselves with the Afrikaners, especially from the rural areas and we welcome those people, but they sort of fit in completely with us.  But agreed, the big business, the English-speaking big business people, they seem to carry on with their business and make money and leave the rest of the country to whoever wishes to govern.  But I agree, there is a problem, I share your sentiments.  That's all I can say.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  This is the end of our questions.

GEN GROENEWALD: Can I perhaps add something to the last point Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes General Groenewald.

GEN GROENEWALD: I think amongst all peoples you cannot generalise first of all.  But I think what we should remember is that the so-called anti-insurgency warfare conducted in South Africa goes back not only a long way in South Africa but also in neighbouring states.  You will remember that when the South African government supported the Rhodesian Regime it was South African policemen that were sent over, not South African Defence Force people.  And a lot of the methods and tactics which they subsequently used in South Africa basically comes from the experiences they picked up in countries like Rhodesia.  That can of course be fed back to countries like Malaya and so on and so forth, and I think that's an aspect which you should just take into consideration.