Special Hearings — Media Hearings — 1997-09-15

MR LEWIN: Because I am surprised, thank you Mr Raubenheimer, I am just surprised when you talk about the lack of access you had to news sources, you mention SAPA, you mention Reuters, now this was at a time when you had large numbers of journalists coming in for instance from overseas who were able to go back outside and make the documentaries, write the news stories which were actually condemned within the SABC as being anti-South African, so they were able to discover sources coming as strangers to the country which people within the country were not able to find.  And of course there was the local press, the so-called opposition press which was very often broadcasting or sending out stories.    If I could just ask one final question.  Human rights is something that we are very, very concerned about now, it's become a buzz phrase but it is very important, can you remember any instance where you uncovered, as a news department, uncovered excesses of human rights abuses which you then followed up?

LOUIS RAUBENHEIMER: Well it's difficult to - I need to come back to your question on neutrality of news, but it is very difficult for me to now recall a single news event that we followed up.  We did refer in some of the news talks about the way that the police acted in some of those instances, but I must admit in very mild terms.  I would like to admit that you would have liked to have seen it in much stronger terms than the SABC actually did it.

MR LEWIN: The death of Biko for instance.

LOUIS RAUBENHEIMER: The death of Biko for instance.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I know you are still hungry but I will have to restrain you and to give one

DR BORAINE: Sort of a composite question.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes alright, please.  Well yes we are trying to get to some truth and to be also able to form as clear and as accurate a picture as possible, particularly for what we want to see happen in the future if there are things that we have got to learn, that we have got to find out what the mistakes were that were made.  Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: From what I have heard you say today in a crisp way I suppose could be summed up by acknowledging that the SABC was not independent, am I right in that?

LOUIS RAUBENHEIMER: Well first of all the SABC board was constituted by the government of the day and was responsible to Parliament as you well know Sir.  Now that in itself I think can be taken in your terms as saying that the SABC was not independent, but then that exactly applies to the present SABC.    So what I am saying is I think if we want to talk about independence of a national broadcaster, such as the SABC, we need to go and look not only at the overriding structure of that organisation and how it fits in with the governing body of the land, but also I think you need to go and look at, I would like to call it the ethos within the news department of that particular organisation, the measure of autonomy that journalists are or are not allowed within that organisation.  I don't think, as far as I know news organisations, and I have been out of news now for a year or two or three, I don't think, there exists news organisations without policy guidelines, not newspapers, not radio, not television, not as far as I know.  In that sense news is manipulated, controlled if you wish, but then I think it depends on the culture of that particular country and the particular news organisation.In America for instance there's a much more open culture in the handling of news than I have seen at the SABC during my times when I was there.  And, ja, I wouldn't like to comment on the present situation because I am not part of the news division anymore.  But the fact of the matter what I am basically saying to you is, yes, there were controls, there were regulations, but within those an individual also had some limited scope for doing his own thing and saying his own thing.  Can I just quote you this, and this was from one of the last news commentaries that I was responsible for -    "In this stage of South Africa's political development it is extremely important that developments should be made in avoiding hindrances regarding negotiations, and if negotiations between representative leaders cannot progress it's because certain leaders are detained.  This has been accepted for a long time.  Some of the most prominent of these leaders is President Mandela.  To reconciling with the objective of peaceful development he redefined his policy.  Mandela has been involved with the broad preparatory work for negotiations".But in spite of and within all the regulations and guidelines of the SABC's news operation I, as Louis Raubenheimer and as the head of that department at that stage had the liberty of saying to the South African public but look people we've got to do something, we've got to remove this issue in order to get negotiations, and structured negotiations going.  That's maybe the best I can answer your question at this stage.

DR BORAINE: At the risk of incurring the wrath of my Chairperson here just one short follow-up to try to understand where you are coming from.  When I asked the question or made the statement that it seemed to me that what you were arguing was that the SABC was not independent it was putting it quite mildly.  The impression I get is that the SABC's function was to strengthen the government of the day and weaken the opposition to that government of the day as a broad mandate, and that only towards the late eighties, if you like, I'm not sure where that particular quotation comes from, I would imagine right, very close towards the negotiation period which of course reflected again the government's position which had changed its view quite drastically.  Now am I completely wide off the mark when I suggest that the SABC was in fact by its choice, by its omission, by its commission, in broad terms supporting the policy of the government of the day to the detriment of any kind of change which the vast majority of South Africans were demanding?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to do that briefly?

LOUIS RAUBENHEIMER: I am able to do it very briefly Bishop.  I think it would be daft to try and - can I say it in Afrikaans,  I think it will be extremely shortsighted to say that the SABC in the 1980's, not in broad terms, and you also referred to these broader terms, that they did not support the policy of the government of the day.  It does not mean that the news department agreed with the government in all respects, or even that they simply took their cue as to the reportage of news and the writing of these comments from the government.  But I think it would be extremely shortsighted to argue that the SABC in broader terms did not support the government of the day's policies regarding the problems of the day.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very, very much for a very clear exposition of I think something that is somewhat difficult.  Thank you.

LOUIS RAUBENHEIMER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: May I crave your indulgence and suggest that in order for us to get this three, if we could reduce the input to about 20 minutes, I mean the total of the next, is that okay.  We will see.  Thank you very much.  Mr Briscoe.  S A B C
DOCUMENTARY

CHAIRPERSON: Denzil Potgieter.

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Briscoe good afternoon and welcome.  Would you please just rise to take the oath.

DON BRISCOE: (sworn states)

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you very much, you may be seated.  Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Briscoe may I add my own words of welcome to you.  Thank you very much for being willing to participate in these hearings.  I wonder if you would mind quite shortly telling us of the position that you held and how you tried to exercise that responsibility during your years with the SABC and then I will follow up with some questions.  Thank you.