Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So really at that point you were intending to kill him.

MR STERRENBERG: Yes ma'am as I felt at that stage my life in imminent danger.  And that - had I not taken that action then likely I would have been killed.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: By a man who lay down with seven  bullet wounds already on his body.

MR STERRENBERG: At that stage ma'am I wasn't aware that he been wounded by myself or anyone of my other colleagues.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I am just going to  circulate if you may again another Exhibit - picture - photograph nr 3,  4 and photograph nr 60, 61, 62, 63, 64 - photograph nr 3 and 4 show Christopher Piet lying face down - 3 and 4.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Do you see that -  lying face down with his gun - lying over his gun faced down - he had already fallen.

MR STERRENBERG: That's right.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And could you turn the pages please to 60.

MR STERRENBERG: 60.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: 60 - 61 - 62 - 63 - 64 - and that is the body of Christopher Piet with  several wounds.

MR STERRENBERG: Yes ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: That's probably it.

MR STERRENBERG: To 64?

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes 64.

MR STERRENBERG: Yes.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Can you see the wounds on Christopher.

MR STERRENBERG: I can see the wounds ja.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Can you just look at the head there - the head wounds.

MR STERRENBERG: Yes ma'am.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: The post-mortem  reports - actually the forensic report by the doctor who gave evidence at the inquest indicated that there were twelve bullets on Christopher Piet's head, starting from the neck upwards and several on his body as well.  So I just want to submit that for the evidence and you do recognise that two shots - are those maybe the shots that you had fired - some of them.

MR STERRENBERG: I think more than likely would it occurred I wasn't the only person firing at this individual.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So - so yes.

MR STERRENBERG: As I say the shots that I fired were from his left hand side at the time he was running and then the three at his head when I was behind the tree - it is possible that of my  colleagues did fire at him as well.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: And you will state under oath that your intention was really to disable him - to capture him so that they are imprisonment -  not to kill him.

MR STERRENBERG: Initially yes, that was before that any action was taken which endangered my life - the life of my colleagues or any other innocent civilians who may have been in that vicinity.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: That meeting of the 2nd of March - rather of the night - of the morning - early morning - of 3rd March 1986 - we have evidence that the intention - the plan that was given to officers who were sent on this operation was to shoot - to kill.  Can you tell us anything about this.

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am then I didn't attend that meeting - the briefing that I attended we were ordered to arrest people - trying to flee and obviously action was taken that required shots being fired then that was left in the discretion of the officer at that time.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I'll stay with the plan again, at what stage were you given an description of the van that these men would be driving.

MR STERRENBERG: It was during the course of the briefing at two o'clock when we were told that it was the Kombi transporting which normally transports police officers to Guguletu police station.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I am talking about the Kombi that the men - your targets were driving - at what stage were you told which van they would be driving.

MR STERRENBERG: I didn't - I wasn't present when that was given.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you went to the scene of the expected crime without knowing what van this men would be driving.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct ja.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: When were you given a description of the Askari's from Vlakplaas who were with these men?

MR STERRENBERG: As far as I can recall we weren't given any description - we were just told that there were two informers with the group and they would be moving with the group.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you were told that there were two informers but they did not tell you what van these people would be driving with the informers.

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am end of Tape 2, side A ...  that I can relate.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Doesn't that seem strange to you to be given a description of people who are with your targets without being informed what car they are driving.

MR STERRENBERG: Ma'am I was placed in the stopper group and was there to stop people, the main attack or assault would have been - had to take place in NY111.  Other people were deployed in vehicles in order to stop these vehicles as well - I was actually on foot.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I see - so you were going to stop people and you did not know what van they were driving.

MR STERRENBERG: No.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thanks - after the events do you remember what kind of firearms were found on these men.

MR STERRENBERG: I remember on the individual that I had been standing at - a AK47 was recovered from him - which had two magazines - three magazines - two were taped together.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: That's all you remember?

MR STERRENBERG: I know that weapons were found on other people but I don't know as to the calibre's of the weapons that were found.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: But in all of the victims there were weapons found.

MR STERRENBERG: As far as I can recall ja.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes - now the gentleman - an officer who was part of your team - where was he when the shooting took place was he in die bushes or did he mingle with the rest of the team?

MR STERRENBERG: Ma'am when the shots had started firing after the explosion, I don't know what occurred to him or where he ended up because at that time I think everybody moved in different directions.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Yes - I just want to go  back to the discoveries that the police made of these firearms.  We have a video tape of the events  of the day together with the photographs that have been submitted to us - and one of the things that have been gleamed from this video tape - is a voice of someone calling out to Trompie to bring out the Tokarev - now this is the final stage when everything has been done and obviously the searches of  these men to see what can be found.
 And one of the things that we hear from this video is a voice by some officer who says that Trompie has the Tokarev - I am trying to find the exact - ja - the voice says - Trompie het die Tokarev.  Now this is the stage where the person - you are obviously trying to establish what firearms there are - and what is strange to us is that Trompie is called out - someone calls out to say Trompie has the Tokarev.  
 And beyond that another voice comes up and says moenie die wapen naby hom sit nie.  So the picture we have is that of a group of officers planting  at least this Tokarev to a victim - this is what it seems from the voice over on the video -  Trompie het die Tokarev and then obviously we imagine Trompie bringing the Tokarev and  another voice comes out and says - nee moenie die wapen naby hom sit nie.
 Now Trompie was one of your men -  I don't know if you can tell us anything about this, because the question was - you know waar is die Tokarev and someone says Trompie het dit.

MR STERRENBERG: No Ma'am I would suggest that perhaps Trompie be asked to explain what his moves were there.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: But you do confirm that Trompie was a member of your team.

MR STERRENBERG: Trompie was a member of the team and he had been placed with Major Odendal.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So you were not part of this conversation yourself.

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am.