Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

MS M MTHEMBU: On the day Jerry was going to be shot there was also one of his schoolmates who died, whose name was Mike.  We were at his funeral and it was on a Saturday.  The actual conflict started there on that day of the funeral.  We started fighting with the police.  When we came out of the funeral, before I arrived at home I was already told, because at the time when they started shooting I fell into the water and then I swam and then I came out.  When I arrived at home I saw the ambulance coming towards the direction from home.  I saw my big brother's feet protruding out.  When they passed I was hiding because they were busy shooting.  After they had passed I went home and my mother said, where's Jerry.  My mother said sit down and I said no.  They have shot Jerry I saw him in the ambulance.  My mother said sit still here at home, don't go anywhere.  They went out to search for Jerry.  When they came back they said they can't find him.  I said I saw the direction where the ambulance went to, it went towards the direction of the Vasco da Gama, from Vasco da Gama it turned towards the animal hospital where they shot and killed other people.  They went to look there and they didn't find anyone.  The following day they went again to search and they didn't come and the third day they went to search.  The fourth day I said now I am coming out.  I went with Mr Rapalanyana and we JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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went to fetch my mother at work.  When I arrived at the general hospital other people said I must go to the government mortuary and said it's not a long time ago that this child was here.  When I went to the government mortuary it was for the first time that I saw the government mortuary, I spoke to some other men, they said go inside there are some children that have just been brought in and I had a book and a ball pen.  When I went inside I could recognise that the children were lying down.  I stole their numbers that were on their feet so that their parents could be able to trace them.  So I took down all those numbers and I looked at all those bodies that were lying down.  I didn't see Jerry.
 When this other man said I shouldn't go, there is still another lot that's arriving.  When the load came I took down all the numbers of the bodies.  When I was on the door I saw Jerry, and I said there's Jerry.  They said I must come in and identify him.  I just stood there and looked at him.  There was also our neighbour's child.  I put down their numbers.  When I came out of there I said let us go home I have found him.  I said yes of course it is him.  
 When we arrived at home we told Mayekiso and others that we found Jerry, but what surprised me is that when I asked people they said this child has only just recently come in, it means that this child has just recently died.  I said okay.
 When we arrived at home we started making funeral preparations.  There now all the numbers I had, I started giving them to Moses so that all those parents who couldn't find their children could go to the government mortuary and identify their children through those numbers that I had 
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because there was confusion, we couldn't even find our children where they were.  We couldn't even trace their bodies, those who were dead.
 While it was still like that we were still at home I started being frightened and being worried because I know how police are like.  As I went out somebody told me that the police were here looking for you.  They said it's because of your activities.
 They came in while I was still inside.  They said to my mother we are looking for Maria.  My mother said Maria is not here.  They said when we find her we will kill her we are telling you right now.  That's why I kept quiet and I was just inside the house and I kept quiet.  After a few minutes they kept on coming all the time, different police would come in.  
 While I was still sitting there they came in, and I saw them before I came in and I wanted to get out of the window.  When I look at the window I saw that the hippos had surrounded the yard.  There was also the SADF surrounding our place, and I said to my mother today they are going to kill me.  I don't know what I can do.  They said where is Maria.  I was holding onto the wall and then they all pointed guns at me.  I just stood against the wall and my mother said here is Maria, and I didn't even look at them I was looking towards the wall, I said let what can happen happen right now.  They said no we will find her in the street but what we do know Jerry died by mistake, we were really after you.  We are still going to kill you.  I just kept quiet.
 After two days there was a strange boy who came that I had not seen before.  He was wearing a UDF T-shirt and he 
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said to me there were a lot of us comrades there, there was COSAS and a lot of us, this guy came to me and he said here comrade you are Maria, he said I hear that you are so active but there are things I've got for you.  I said what are those things you've got for me?  He said let's go outside and talk together and he showed me landmines.  He said here are the landmines.  I mean they were complete but there was only the string that was missing to connect them.  He said here what we are going to do, because they have killed your younger brother this is what we must do.  He said now we must hit back at them.  He said take these landmines.  I took them and held them.  
 I called other comrades who were here, I said here are these things that have been given to me, this guy says he's so and so.  The comrades said to me listen who is this person?  We are not sure who this person is.  We need to trace who this person is.  And they followed this person towards the hostel but from the hostel this person just disappeared.  Then for two days I was hiding these things.
 On the third day when I said it looks like there's a trap here, it looks like I must take these things to the lawyers.  People said to me who is going to hold them because we are now going to call the taxi somebody will have to hold them.  At the time I was brave, I said if anything happens let it happen to me.  So I took those things and I wore a lumberjacket and I got into the taxi.  There were some comrades I was with.  I said if there is anything that happened that other comrades could relate that.
 When we arrived at Priscilla Jana I said I am looking for Priscilla.  They said I must say what is happening.  When I told them that really this is an issue that needs 
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Priscilla herself.  So I took out, when I saw Priscilla, I took these things and put them outside.  She said do you know this person who gave these to you?  I said no I saw this person for the first time but I can recognise this person if I saw him again.  She said you are so brave.  Are you brave enough that I can call the police, because the police must come and fetch these things from me?  I said yes, I am brave, I am prepared for them.  She said you must know that after this, after they have taken this you must just disappear.  They mustn't find you.  I said yes I will skip the country.  And they agreed.
 She said let me phone an advocate first.  She phoned an advocate and when the advocate came then they phoned the cops and when the cop arrived they thought they were going to find a very big and elderly person.  When they arrived they just came to me, I was a small person, and they just kept quiet and looked at me, they were also surprised.  They said do you know what are these things you brought here?  I said yes I know.  They said can you recognise the person who gave you these things?  I said yes I know, I can recognise this person.  They asked me some questions and they realised that I didn't know much about this.  
 After I came out from Priscilla things were not safe for me.  I really got frightened because I didn't know where the police were waiting but I just wanted to have enough strength to go and arrive home.  When I arrived at home in the township because when people tried to report issues the police would say go back to your comrades and lay charges there.  That is when we started the people's court because we could not take our concern to the police. 
 When the people's court started operating I wasn't part JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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of it, but I was one of the comrades who was active during that time.  As the people's court was operating these Boers used to come at home looking for me.  When we buried these children we buried them today and the following day I ran away.  I had to run away, I had not choice.  I couldn't stay in the township.  So I ran and went to stay in Pretoria.  When I was in Pretoria I heard that they had arrested my mother.
 Where I was staying I didn't even say goodbye to them I just came back and went home, but I found that my mother had already been released.  She told me that these people are looking for you, and when they find you they are going to kill you.  I said well it's alright, if they kill me they will kill me, I know that I have committed no wrong.  I was staying at different people's places, I wasn't staying at home during that time.  
 Whilst it was still like that one day I came back home in the afternoon, just when I came out the police came and said Maria where is Maria, she was just here, they said you know your Maria is troublesome.  Now her time has arrived, you must know that once we find out where she is we are going to kill her.  When I came back to my mother my mother said run away.  I said it doesn't help, if I run to exile who are people who are going to remain here at home and assist at home.  I said I am not going anywhere.  I am just going to stay here at home although I will not be staying in a stable place, I will be moving around but I won't leave the country.  
 As the days went on there was a funeral of the second group that was also killed. I was also called to come and give a speech but I couldn't even arrive at the place and 
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give a speech because I saw a lot of policemen and I realised that they are going to shoot me.  I saw Motemi, and this Motemi is a policeman, he is a very cruel policeman, so I ran away.
 There was a funeral at Duduza and we went to Duduza and I said no I am not going to go to Duduza.  Those who had gone to Duduza along the path there were roadblocks, they stopped all those people who had gone to Duduza, and they were asking all the people on the bus and taxi who were going to the Duduza funeral, where is Maria?  People came back and said Maria you must run away because I think these cops are really after you.
 My mother came to me and said these people are going to kill you, what can you do?  I said there is nothing I could do, I will just stay here and if they want to kill me they are going to come and kill me.  But I ran away again and I was underground.  I went to stay with other comrades in Thokoza.  In Thokoza I only stayed for two days.  On the third day they said things are hotting up again here let us run away.  Just the day after we ran away from Thokoza the police attacked the place and said there were MK people there.  
 So I left with this other comrade, Comrade Noti, we also stayed there three days.  At about 12 midnight there was one boy, this young boy told us the police were here, they are coming around,  you must run away.  So at about 12 midnight I ran away and we slept by the graveyard so that we could be safe.
 As we were running away we saw that there was a road block on our way.  One old man helped us who is the manager of Sales House.  This man, because Noti knew him talked to 
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him said Comrade just take out your car and help these people escape and just say these are members of your staff so that they can be able to pass through.  Along the way we were stopped by the roadblocks and this manager said no this is my staff at Sales House.  We went back to Alex but even in Alex there was really no life, we couldn't survive there.  On the day we slept at home that's the night they attacked our home, the Magabasa people.  I was on the gate and I saw people wearing blue shirts.  I heard the slogans, they were singing, I said aha but I don't recognise this slogan and I went inside.  I told the people inside they said run away, there are people who are coming, but by the time they started escaping these Magabasa shot and I just hid myself under the car.  They burnt all other cars around me except this car I was hiding under, and a lot of children were killed.
 When we came out at night we phoned the ...(indistinct)  and they didn't even respond.  There was a comrade who was staying at no.30, we went to him so that we could just stay there for a while because the police were busy patrolling at that stage.  There were lots of other cops who came in small cars.
 In the morning we came out, we washed and got ourselves ready.  I was wearing a T-shirt.  I was also wearing a green pants, pair of pants.  When I arrived and saw where they had burnt the houses the cops arrived, Alec saw me, when he saw me I tried to run, I just ran two steps, I heard a gunshot behind me.  I realised that if I continue running they are going to shoot me.  So they just grabbed me from behind and said aha, we've got you today.  They just picked me up and threw me inside the van.  I stayed inside there.
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 I had information with me, I knew that if they got this information from me I am going to go forever, there was nothing.  I tried to get rid - I realised that I had to get rid of this information I had with me.  The stupidity of it they took the van that I was in, they put it right behind the convoy and I called out to people.  I took out the cassette, I threw it out of the van and the van went off.  When it arrived at 15 at Ntatetele Mr Linda's place they took comrade Bapela put him inside.  Now there were two of us and then they took another comrade, then it became three.
 Ahead of us there were comrades that were busy fighting.  At the same time there was a child who was passing, he tried to run away, he said inside that van there are comrades don't shoot that van they are comrades, don't shoot that.  They are telling comrades don't shoot that van there are comrades inside that van.  So we were taken to the police station where they made us to squat on the floor and said who do you think we are.  They said do you think you are going to rule this country?  We just kept quiet.  We didn't answer them.  
 They took me to the women's section and took the men to the men's section.  At the same time people had already phoned lawyers and they told lawyers that we were under the state of emergency which is 48 hours.  When they came to me they said do you know Ace, do you know your comrade Ace they said come and see him.  Ace this is the person who got burnt while they were burning the house, they lay him down on the floor.  I just felt strong enough, stood up and looked at him and I saw he was burnt.  I said even you are going to follow like him.  They kept quiet. 
 After three days I was released.  There was another boy JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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called Zef, when we arrived at the first avenue behind the Roman Catholic Church he aha you have been released today we are going to kill you.  As I was going home I realised that I couldn't even reach home.  I took another direction.  On that night there was also shooting.  It was the base, the place where we were sleeping was called the base.  I said if I had been there I would also have been killed so I ran away and went to another place, so they couldn't kill me there.