Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-04-14

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: You mean in the case?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: No, I wasn't accused number 1.

CHAIRPERSON: You are MB Mhlongo, not so?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, that is so.

CHAIRPERSON: This judgment we have from that judge, he signed it, he says you're accused number 1, FJ Nkosi, I assume it's Fani Nkosi, is accused number 2 and Kleinbooi Tshabalala is accused number 3.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, at the Court I was accused number 2, Fanie Nkosi was accused number 1 because the third one was on bail, he was out on bail and I therefore became accused number 2.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Joseph Fani Nkosi arrived indeed on a Friday in Kleinbooi Tshabalala's company and they were three when they arrived.  Keifas was there as well, Keifas Kweniga.
	When they arrived I took them with to Shavias Biaha, who was our leader in Tsakane branch of ANC.  I showed them to him and I also showed Shavias the owner of the car.
	The owner of the car demanded petrol money and R15 was tendered to him.  We got some gas and we left on a Friday.  Joseph Fani Nkosi was the one directing the driver as to where we were going until we arrived at that particular house in Delmas.
	The car was parked outside and it was at night, around something to nine.  We entered the house.  We found two white men in the kitchen.  Myself and the owner of the car, Kleinbooi Tshabalala captured one or we held one white man and we went with him to the bedroom and we asked for weapons from him like firearms and he showed them to us and at the same time he was resisting.  We got hold of an electrical wire in the room and we tied him with it.  
	He showed us the safe where the firearms were concealed and the ammunition as well.  We opened the safe and took what was contained in it.  When we were going out in the kitchen we found out that the other white man whom we left in the kitchen was lying on the ground bleeding profusely.
	I asked Joseph Fani Nkosi as to what was the matter and he answered and said Keifas Kweniga stabbed that man.  Keifas Kweniga was the one who was left with him in the kitchen when we were busy dealing with the other man in the other room, in the bedroom.  And Kweniga said no, Joseph Fani Nkosi, you are the one who stabbed and I asked the reasons that led to this offence and they said he was making a noise, that man, the white man.
	When I tried to lift him  up to sit on the chair in which he was sitting, I discovered that he did not have any strength and I left him lying there as well and we left with our firearms, with those firearms rather, and we went back to Tsakane.
	We got the firearms that we got there ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: How many firearms did you leave with?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Three.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it three pistols, three rifles or a mixture?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Pumpgun.

CHAIRPERSON: Three?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: One pumpgun and an R4 and another one that was a bit massive and that used a different kind of ammunition.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you get ammunition there?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, we did gather quite many of them, ammunition that is.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you people left with?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, we left with all of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all you took?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Keifas also had something else that looked like binoculars, a set of binoculars.

CHAIRPERSON: That's all?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, that's all.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: We took all of that and we went back Tsakane, arrived in Tsakane at night.  I think it was about 1 or 2 a.m. on Saturday.  We took these firearm to Shavias Biaha and Mhlango and Mshudulu.  Those were the ones who ordered us.  We left those firearms with them.  	On that very Saturday morning we went back to them, we left the house in other words and went back to them on Saturday morning again and I was telling them that I was due to leave to Kwandabele and the same day, Saturday, I left for Kwandabele and came back or returned on Wednesday.
	Friday now - well Friday morning, early hours Friday morning I saw them arriving with police at my house ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Just hold that.  Ms Thabete, those people he just mentioned, were they informed?

MS THABETE: Are you referring to the co-accused, Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: No, those people to whom the guns were taken.

MS THABETE: What happened is, our Investigator went to the plot mentioned in the judgment and they no longer live there, so we did make a media advertisement for them to contact us, but no-one contacted us.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Carry on.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: On the 17th of September 1993 on a Friday, I think it was about 2 or 3 in the morning, the policemen arrived in a Kombi with two bakkies or vans and they knocked at the door ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Were you arrested eventually?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: On the 17th I got arrested, 1993, on a Friday morning.  When they came to me they asked, when they got to me they asked as to whether I'm Beki Mhlongo and I said and they said I should dress up and they asked me about accused number 1, Joseph Fani Nkosi and I took them to where he resided and that's how we were apprehended.  And in the kombi I found the other people that we handed firearms to already arrested.  And we were all taken to Springs Police Station in the morning.  Midday we were transferred to Benoni Hyper Square.
	When we arrived there in Benoni during the day we took the Benoni Police to show them the scene where this whole thing was committed and we got to that particular scene and we came back and we were charged, the seven of us.  Charges were laid against us for murder.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mohlaba, is this at all relevant to the application?

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chair, I wanted to interject as well.
	You have mentioned that when you were arrested the people who you also handed firearms to were also in that vehicle, is that correct?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, the people we handed firearms to on that Friday were already in the kombi, but I went into a van, not a kombi, but they were already there as well.

UNKNOWN: And amongst these people was Shavias Biaha there?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Shavias Biaha.  Yes, he was there together with Mshudulu, Ezekia Mhlango ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Do you know where Shavias is today, do you know his whereabouts?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: No, I don't know.  He stays in Tsakane, but I don't know exactly the house.

UNKNOWN: And this is the person who was your commander at the time?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: So is it your case that in robbing and committing this offences of robbery of firearms, you were in furtherance of the interest of your political organisation, that is the ANC and the SDUs?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: That will conclude the evidence-in-chief, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlongo, how long were you a member of the Self Defence Unit before this incident?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: I had about three years.

CHAIRPERSON: Three years?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Yes, if I'm not mistaken.

CHAIRPERSON: But the Self Defence Units were only established in 1993.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: When we got to that place it was around 1992, or it was in 1992 rather.

CHAIRPERSON: What place?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: Tsakane where we had our shacks.

CHAIRPERSON: But I'm telling that the ANC testified about this and they said they established the Self Defence Units early 1993.  What do you say about that?  In other words, as far as we're concerned the Self Defence Units never existed three years prior, in 1990.

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: No, we've been comrades since 1989 in the area of Tsakane.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell me, what did you do in the Self Defence Unit?

MILTON BEKI MHLONGO: We were protecting the community.  At night we would patrol.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you patrol yourself?