Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-12

WITNESS:   In detention they interrogated me.  They didn't allow me to smoke.  I am a smoker.  For the whole day they didn't allow me.  They were busy interrogating me.  I was handcuffed the whole day.  At about half past five they took me to prison, or to my custody.  I was hungry.  They didn't allow me to eat.  When I was there when I tried to smoke I only pulled twice and I collapsed.  That's when I realised that I am going to die, I am going to leave my children behind, because I lost conscious up until half past eight in the evening, and police were surrounding me, and the prison warders.  The senior prison warder asked them what was going on, so I explained to him that they were interrogating me and they didn't allow me to smoke.  He made me to make a statement.  They gave me food.  On the 24th they didn't give me food on that day.  They arrested me and they didn't give me food.  Another thing, on the day when they - my problems are dates, I can't remember the dates.  On a certain day they took me from Newcastle to Waterval Prison.  When I arrived there I found Mr Geldenhuys.  When I arrived there he interrogated me, and when I asked him what wrong did I do to him for him to do this to me he told me, "Nothing happened to you.  You were only interrogated.  No one beat you.  I want you when

MR DLAMINI: /"you leave

MR DLAMINI: you leave this place to know very well that you mustn't go to Vryheid because I am going to shoot you.  I don't want to see you."  I kept quiet those days.  They put us in small cells in solitary confinement.  I was in solitary confinement.  While I was there I was thinking about Mr Geldenhuys, what actually did he mean when he said I mustn't go to Vryheid, and if I do he'll kill me.  He came back the next day.  He came there to harass us.  They opened our cells, they told us to take off.  We took off our clothes.  They told us to go outside our cells.  They searched the cells and they couldn't find anything.  Our clothes, which were ironed, were thrown away.  We were supposed to fix them afterwards.  We didn't have the power to fight them.  This is how they harassed us.

MR DLAMINI: The time that you spent in detention, how long was it?

WITNESS:   It's from the 24th of June in 1986 up until 1988 on the 11th of November.

MR DLAMINI: When you were released you were given a house arrest.

WITNESS:   Yes, and it was for a long time, because Sergeant Gama used to come and visit me at home, who was the one that I asked that I wanted to see my father.  I used to write letters to Newcastle and they used to tell me that they my father is still alive, and my father died the next day after he said my father is alive.  I can't even meet Mr Gama at street.  I don't even know if I can meet him today what am I going to do because emotionally I am really disturbed.

MR DLAMINI: If Sergeant Gama can come here and say to you, "Mr Hadebe, we were struggling.  You were struggling for freedom or for rights, and I was also trying to have bread, I was struggling for the Government"?

WITNESS:   I can

MR DLAMINI: /"forgive

MR DLAMINI: forgive him if he can tell the truth, if he can tell me why he did what he did, because we know that other people were being used.  Because of money people would do so many things, bad things.

MR DLAMINI: Is Sergeant Gama still alive?

WITNESS:   I can't tell because I don't even meet him.

MR DLAMINI: You also said you are no longer the very same who you were before.  What can you tell us about you?

WITNESS:   Emotionally I am not happy at all.  A lot of things happened to me.  Police changed my life.  Today I can't even stay at home being happy.  My children aren't happy.  I don't have money.  My rights were taken away by the police, by oppressing me.  Today my wife here next to me -as you can see she is still young - she is now having high blood pressure.  My staying at home ... (incomplete)

MR DLAMINI: Is your wife getting any treatment for her BP?

WITNESS:  Yes, she is.  She does attend some treatments at the hospital, and she is taking some BP tablets.  It is very well known that BP is not curable, but it's controllable, and she can die at any time.  And if she can leave me in this condition that I am in I am not really sure about my children's future, as well as funeral expenses.  Because the very same police destroyed my prospects of being a good worker, because I never got my money.  I worked at Consol, and I started in 1969 up to the time that I got arrested in 1986.

MR DLAMINI: Were you ever accepted back at work after you were released?

WITNESS:   No, I was never.  They just sent me a cheque to the amount of R2 400,00.

MR DLAMINI: Did they ever explain what that money was for?

WITNESS:  They said it was my money.  That's all I was worth. I am going to ask the Commission to write to Consol so that we can see whether there are any attempts that we can make in order to persuade the Consol employers, or your ex-employers.  I can see that you are very traumatised.  I'll give you an advice that there are people like psychologists, as well as briefers, who can advise you as to how to go about seeing psychologists.  I will take you back to the Chairperson.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Hadebe, just two small questions for you please.  Firstly, you've mentioned a policeman called van Huyssteen ... (inaudible - end of Side A) ... okay, we'll just wait a second while they correct that for you.  Which police station was he from?

WITNESS:   He was from Newcastle Police Station.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... up on that.  You've mentioned Sergeant Gama.  What other policemen were involved in your interrogation and in your arrest?  Do you know any of the other names at all?

WITNESS:   I don't remember quite well.  There is another policeman who was involved at that time, but I don't know what his name is.  I don't remember quite well.

MR LAX: The second question was which other people were detained with you at that time?

WITNESS:   My wife says the other policeman was Sibisi.  He was also from Newcastle.

MR LAX: Who else was detained with you at that time?  Which other people that you can remember?

WITNESS:   Some were from Glencoe and others were from Sibongile, as well as Reginald Zwane.  I was with Reginald Zwane and Masondo, and Oscar, as well as Professor.  We were together at Waterval.  Mandla Cele was also with me.  Mzwakhe Sithebe.

MR LAX: /(Inaudible)

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... do you remember?

WITNESS:   It's Zulu.  Zwane.

MR LAX: Thank you.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Hadebe.  You heard the remarks which I made to Mr Zwane, who came before you on the stage, and these remarks also apply to you.  The decisions that were made to arrest people like you, they rested with the local Security Branch people, people like Major de Kock.  We know that from that time.  And we wonder how these people feel knowing that the - knowing of the sadness and the hurt and the misery and the pain which they caused to people like yourself, who were in detention for two years and eight months, and you lost your job which you had held for 17 years before that.  The behaviour of the police during those days has left a lasting impression on thousands of people, and it has undermined their view of authority.  Policemen who behave brutally and unlawfully don't deserve respect, and in places like Newcastle, where some of these policemen still hold senior positions in the SAP, it is not surprising that the relationship between the police and the community is not what it should be, and we hope very much that we are now entering an era when that relationship can be slowly changed, and that people can start again to trust the police.  But I know that for many people that will be a long journey.