Amnesty Hearings — Tzaneen — 1999-06-30

SISI KHAMPEPE: You no longer have the Offensive,the Repossession and the other Units?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: Not at all, we are part and parcelof the government structures now, members of the Defence Force.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, you have heard the evidenceof the applicants, I think it was the first applicant who said that, or at leastimplied that he never got that instruction because he was in jail at the time. The question is what are you, or what have you done, what are you doing to makesure that the people who are still in jail and many of them are perhaps nowmaking application for amnesty, that they have received the orders to stop thearmed struggle?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: We made a lot of effort, even wewent to an extent of visiting some of the members who were in prison as wellincluding the applicants themselves, I think I have been in contact with thefirst applicant as well, even as late as when was it, last week, if I am notmistaken, so we have made an effort to make sure that we get into contact withall former APLA members wherever they are.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Are you saying that you,yourself, gave the order to the first applicant that the war is over now?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: I didn't, because I was not directlyresponsible for him.

MR VAN RENSBERG: If I understand your evidencecorrectly, you said you never had any knowledge of this specific attack thatwe are talking about, until after it had already happened?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: Yes.

MR VAN RENSBERG: That definitely was not thecase with Mr Mpahlela, is that not so, he knew about the attack?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: It was, it was the case as well,because Mr Mpahlela was not a Regional Commander, he was a Director of all Operations. Regional Commanders were reporting to him and telling him what they intendedto do, and his responsibility was to ensure that those operations fell withinthe mandate and guidelines of APLA and the PAC.

MR VAN RENSBERG: I see, so Mr Lethlapa Mpahleladid know about this attack?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: He did know about the attack yes,because he gave the authority to go ahead.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Do you know if Mr Mpahlelahas made application for amnesty?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: I am not too sure whether he hasfinally did it for this one specifically but I know that he did apply for anumber of other operations were he was directly involved, but in terms of thisone specifically, I am not too sure.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Do you know what positionMr Mpahlela is holding at the moment?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: Mr Mpahlela has not integrated,he is in the PAC.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Is he a politician, stilla politician?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: Yes, but he doesn't hold any postwithin the PAC.

MR VAN RENSBERG: I see.  Just a last question,may I ask if you yourself, has made application for amnesty?

MBULELO RAYMOND FIHLA: I did make an application for amnestyand it was turned down.

MR VAN RENSBERG: I see.  No further questions,thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN RENSBERG

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Van Rensberg.  MsMtanga?

MS MTANGA: No questions, Chairperson.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, do you have anyre-examination?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Judge Khampepe, do you have anyquestions?

SISI KHAMPEPE: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Adv Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: No questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you General, that concludesyour testimony, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson andHonourable members of the Committee, that is the evidence of the applicants. That concludes the evidence of the applicants, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Van Rensberg?

MR VAN RENSBERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Atthis stage we are ready to proceed to lead the evidence of the victim, it willonly be one witness, Mr Swanepoel.  I don't know if you want us to proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: We could have the evidence nowif possible, thank you.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Mr Swanepoel will give evidencein  ... (mechanical problem) ...

MR SWANEPOEL: ... on the Ganula smallholdings.

MR VAN RENSBERG: All right, let us start,on the 27th of April 1993, APLA launched an attack on your farm, is that correct?

MR SWANEPOEL: It was the 28th of April 1993.

MR VAN RENSBERG: 28th of April, could youplease tell the Commission what happened from that morning when you got up?

MR SWANEPOEL: I got up at about five o'clockin the morning and I had a shower, I opened some of the windows in the house,I opened the back door and the front door and I made tea and took my wife sometea in the bedroom.  We were sitting on the bed - may I just go back a littlebit, early that morning, just before I got up, the one dog who sleeps in thebedroom with us, there are two who sleeps in the bedroom, one dog rushed tothe window and barked.  I got up and I went to have a look, but I didn't seeanything.  Then later, I got up and washed and took my wife some tea in bedand while we were drinking tea, I was sitting on her side of the bed, and Ilooked out in the direction of which I would leave the house, I had alreadyput on my socks and shoes and I was weighing medicine for the chickens and Ithen left the house, it was about quarter past six in the morning.  In eachhand, I carried a little bowl of medication and approximately 15 metres fromthe front door, I heard a muttering.  There was a cement pond surrounded byflowers and I saw man standing, jumping up from the flowers and I actually thoughtit was one of my own labourers and I wondered why he was up so early, what hewas doing on our property so early because it wasn't yet time for work.  I openup the cages first thing in the morning and only then do the labourers arriveand the man approached me and said that I should halt.  As he approached me, Mr Thobejane also jumped up amongst the flower bed and when the first man wasabout five metres away from me, he aimed a pistol at me and when Mr Thobejanestood up, I saw that he had an AK47.  I then stood still, I first wanted torun and then the person with the pistol said I should stand still.  As I wasstill thinking what I was about to do, I took the two bowls of medicine andI bent forward and put it down on the path in front of me, he once again toldme to stand still.  He then told me to go back to the house and he pushed thepistol in the small of my back and we turned around and walked towards the house. Mr Thobejane walked next to us with the AK47 aimed at the dog, I have a StaffordshireTerrier dog who stays outside the house on the smallholding, and he kept thisweapon aimed at the dog.  At the door, the person with the pistol led me inthe direction of the room, we first entered into an entrance hall, we then turnedright into a passage and at the end of the passage, on the right hand side,is the main bedroom.  When I got to the bedroom door, I saw my wife standingin the middle of the room and I knew I had to do something.  I then jumped intothe room, and as I did so, I slammed the door shut, but as I did so, I hearda shot go off and it missed me by millimetres, it missed my arm.  As the doorbanged shut, my wife onto the floor in front of me.  I knew that she was dead. I stepped over her, I stepped over her body and went to my safe because I knewthat this was trouble.  Whilst I was standing in front of the safe to unlockit, shots were fired at me through the window from outside.  By the time I gotmy weapon out of the safe, I heard people shouting at each other outside andthen there was quiet.  I first looked out of the window to make sure if therewas anybody outside, there was nobody and then I went out, I left the houseand there was nobody outside.

MR VAN RENSBERG: So were shots fired fromoutside into the bedroom?