Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Yes, she made a voluntary statement in her own handwriting.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you suggest any statement or words to be included by her in her statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: No, that wasn't my style, and I had no particulars which I had to give her to put in her statement.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you on this day, the 26th of April, subject her to any form of ill-treatment in order to induce her to make that statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: No, I treated her well.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let's turn now to page 19.   You have already read page 19.

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: On the date mentioned on page 19, the 27th of April, did she make a statement as well there?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Yes, she continued with her statement, Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was she under any form of duress in making that statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Not at all.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you tell her what to write in her statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Not at all.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now I want you to turn to page 22.   Is that your handwriting on page 22?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: That is correct, the second entry, the long one.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Is that the last time when you had an interrogation with her?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Would you mind reading that as well?
MR DE WAAL
"2.5.87, 12:50, report.   Detainee, Mrs Derby-Lewis was booked out by a female officer and taken to be questioned.   She had a bath and she had breakfast at the police station.
		At 9:10, a magistrate from Germiston visited her at Edenvale Police Station and a minister, Jooste, came round about 10:30 to visit her in room No 11, in the presence of Warrant-Officer Press of Benoni and female officer Strydom.   Warrant-Officer Strydom took her photograph, took her fingerprints, as well as handwriting samples.   
		At 11:30, I myself joined Els and female officer Strydom and Mrs Derby-Lewis.   In room No 11, I had a discussion with her, had an interview, and asked her whether she was willing to indicate the place where the so-called murder list was handed to Mr Arthur Kemp.   She said that she was willing to do that.   Afterwards, I warned her, according to judicial rules.   
		At 11:40 I asked Captain Louw to have an interview with Derby-Lewis and to take her for identification should she oblige.   During the interview, Mrs Derby-Lewis indicated that she was not willing to go for identification.   An interview was held in his office by Captain Louw.  I received a message from Colonel Van Niekerk that Mrs Lewis had to be taken to Benoni Police Station.   I requested Els and Strydom to take Mrs Derby-Lewis to Benoni Police Station at 12:35.  Sergeant Miller arrived at 12:45 at Edenvale Police Station and handed in a notice at the office that Mrs Derby-Lewis could not be detained according to section 29.   
		Signature J A De Waal."

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What was your treatment of Mrs Derby-Lewis during this time?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Mrs Lewis requested a lot of things, she required books to read, she gave me a list of the books, I bought these magazines out of my own pocket, I took them to her, she thanked me for those.    When she was questioned, you would see during the first questioning, we were busy for one hour, she said she was feeling tired, it was a long day, I booked her back into her cells, I told her that she could have a rest, I would not bother her the next day, she could have a good rest.  	When she complained or asked that she wanted to have a bath, although it was time to eat, we obliged.   We treated her very well, and she thanked us for the way in which we treated her.   She did not expect to be handled so well during detainment.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mrs Derby-Lewis has told this committee that you treated her so much that even at the time when you approached her for the first time and subsequent thereto, you did not even warn her according to the judge's rules?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: In her own words she said that I acted very professionally.  She said that she could see that we were trained very well, and she compared me to members of the Russian KGB, and she said the training we received was comparable to that training.   Well, I felt very good about that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now let's go back to the statement that she made.  Did she talk and you did the writing, or what happened?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Mr Chairman, I asked her whether she was willing to make a statement.   She said she had no problem to make a statement and that she will start with the historical report and continue, and she started writing.  She wrote that in her own handwriting.   Female Officer Strydom typed the pages she completed in her own handwriting.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: This statement, did you tell her time and again what to write in the statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: No, I did not do that at all.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now the typed statement by your colleague, was this given back to her to check if that was the correct statement of what she had written?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: After it had been typed, it was presented to her again.   She perused it and she indicated a few spelling errors, there were a few, typing errors rather, and that was corrected and she said if somebody wrote for the Patriot, she can't accept spelling errors and that was corrected.   Afterwards she said she was not satisfied with the spelling errors in the statement, she was dissatisfied with the spelling errors and she wanted to retype it without spelling errors.   We obliged, we gave a typewriter to her and it was retyped, and afterwards there were no spelling errors.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you at any stage correct or attempt to correct her statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: Never ever, Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, members of the committee, I'm going to refer to Exhibit AC.   I want you to have a look at that document, merely at the last page, and tell the committee whether that is your signature?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: It is my signature, yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Exhibit AC.   Is this the statement made by yourself?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: That was the statement made by myself, Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I'm not going to ask you to read the statement, it is quite lengthy and members of the committee and all parties have the copy thereof.   What is the gist of this statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: This statement indicates that should there be prosecution, I would know what was in this statement and could explain it in a supreme court.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Do you align yourself with the contents of Exhibit AC, the statement?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: The statement is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is all, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos, are there any questions you wish to put to the witness?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, there are a few questions that I would like to put to the witness.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr De Waal, Exhibit Z, you told us that this is a file that was kept at the police station.   Do you recognise it as a continuous record of the important events that occurred during Mrs Derby-Lewis's detention?

JONAS HENDRIK DE WAAL: That is correct, Mr Chairman, this file was not opened by me personally, it was opened by a member of the security police who detained her at Edenvale Police Station.  These are according to precise procedures that such a file should be opened and handed to the commanding officer at the charge office.   Whether she had a complaint at the charge office or at the magistrate, or any complaint, that was entered into that document.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.