Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR PRINSLOO: He was a captain in the Ystergarde but he was also a specialist in his own field. He didn't wear a uniform in order to make it more specific. He didn't serve in any specific group or group of members of the Ystergarde or the Wencommando. He was the confidante of Mr Terreblanche. He was a specialist in his field and he was a very well highly trained person.

MR BRACHER: After the Johannesburg, Bree Street bomb who reported back to you about the events?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Barnard and Myburg.

MR BRACHER: Did they come to you on the game farm?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes I must have seen them there at a certain point but I can't remember exactly what time. It must have been on the Sunday.

MR BRACHER: It must have been after the bomb and before you went to head-office.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: What is your evidence about whether the radio on the farm was working or not?

MR PRINSLOO: On the game farm? Whether or not I had a radio?

MR BRACHER: Some witnesses have said there was a radio masted up and there was a radio communication with the outside world.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: Mr Smit said yesterday the radio wasn't working.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: Which is correct?

MR PRINSLOO: There was communication between the mast and vehicles who were moving around in the area, in the immediate area. There was also communication between the sleeping quarters or the barracks and the main entrance and then there was also communication between the mast, the ops and patrolling guards in the area.

MR BRACHER: And between the mast and head-office?

MR PRINSLOO: There was no communication. Well at least when I requested communication we had no communication. It could be that at a certain point we had communication at an earlier stage but I myself didn't have any communication.

MR BRACHER: Now when the bombers were sent out to go and bomb targets it seemed to me that the decision where to place those bombs was entirely left to the prejudices of the individual bomber. That there was no order from above as to where to place a bomb.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you mean specifically in which street or in which premises if that is what you are trying to determine? Because there was no such order.

MR BRACHER: What was the order for the Johannesburg bomb?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bracher I am sure you are referring to above in a political sense, not in the accurate sense.

MR BRACHER: Yes. What was the order for the Johannesburg bomb?

MR PRINSLOO: With regard to what? Which premises it should be?

MR BRACHER: Where did they have to plant that bomb?

MR PRINSLOO: There was no specific premises or name of premises, street address.

CHAIRPERSON: Which bomb are you talking about?

MR BRACHER: The Johannesburg, Bree Street bomb.

CHAIRPERSON: The general thing was that it was supposed to be in an area where the most victims would be black. Is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MR BRACHER: Was the order to go to Johannesburg or go to the CBD in Johannesburg or to go to a main street in Johannesburg or what was the order from the General staff?

MR PRINSLOO: The city centre of Johannesburg.

MR BRACHER: Did you give that order?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I gave that order.

MR BRACHER: Was that an order that came from a decision of the General staff meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: Correct.

MR BRACHER: And the Germiston bomb.

MR PRINSLOO: What about that?

MR BRACHER: Was the order to bomb the central area of Germiston?

MR PRINSLOO: Well that would have been the logical place to do it.

MR BRACHER: Pardon?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR BRACHER: And would that have come from the General staff decision?

MR PRINSLOO: Naturally that is correct because as I have testified earlier an area was assigned to me which incorporated different towns and everybody in Staff knew Germiston, Boksburg, Springs, Benoni.

MR BRACHER: Let's go back to the Johannesburg, Bree Street bomb. Is it correct then that the General staff didn't care where the individual bomber placed that bomb as long as it was somewhere in the CBD?

MR PRINSLOO: Johannesburg specifically had to be somewhere in the inner city. That was the discretion of the person who would be driving the vehicle.

MR BRACHER: And if he put that bomb outside an Inkatha hostel that was just too bad. Were there no ANC people?

MR PRINSLOO: No these people knew what they were doing. They did their homework.

MR BRACHER: Well you see it was a very funny thing. They didn't do any homework. They found one man that knew Johannesburg and it seems all he knew was where the massage parlours were.

MR PRINSLOO: Well.

MR BRACHER: That is not fair. It wasn't the only thing.

MR PRINSLOO: That is not fair.

MR BRACHER: Can you go back. I want to know about that map. I couldn't see it on the TV screen. What was on that map at the beginning of the TV programme?

MR PRINSLOO: The area.

MR BRACHER: What area? What were the boundaries of that area?

MR PRINSLOO: Well the area which we had cordoned off. Earlier in my evidence I stated to you that this was the area of which the borders had been determined by the granting of the freedom of the towns to the various right-wing groups amongst others the BKA, the CP and the AWB.

MR BRACHER: Mr Prinsloo don't make it difficult for me. Just give me the east, west, north and south boundaries.

MR PRINSLOO: I am explaining so that you can understand precisely how it operated.

MR BRACHER: What is the southern (...indistinct)

MR PRINSLOO: Where the southernmost tip of such a freedom of a town would be granted and the northernmost point and the easternmost point and westernmost point, that area which incorporated these towns or that region or those borders, the borders of these towns would determine the borders of the area and it has been indicated as such on the map.

MR BRACHER: What were the boundaries? Just tell me what was the southern boundary?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I can't answer you regarding that right now.

ADV GCABASHE: If I might just interrupt. Which town was at each point? I understand that you say it was the border of that town. Which town therefore was at each point?

MR PRINSLOO: Well the southernmost point I would assume would be Koster.

MR BRACHER: And the westernmost point?

MR PRINSLOO: I would estimate that this would be the Brandvlei environment.

MR BRACHER: The easternmost point?

MR PRINSLOO: Rustenburg.

MR BRACHER: Northernmost point?

MR PRINSLOO: Schweizer-Reneke and Hoopstad.

CHAIRPERSON: Sir, have you got any questions left?
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRACHER

MR MALAN: I would just like to ask you something about this because I can't understand it. On my map Hoopstad is definitely much more south from Koster and from Rustenburg and you have given that as the northernmost point. I think that you should draw a map for us.

MR PRINSLOO: No, the southernmost point - well let me put it this way, the southernmost point was Schweizer-Reneke.

MS VAN DER WALT: I beg your pardon but the video which we showed yesterday, the one about the Trimpark meeting upon which the map is clearly indicated perhaps we could watch that video if we could just have a short adjournment to prepare and then we could all have clarity on this.

CHAIRPERSON: But why can't the witness tell us?

MS VAN DER WALT: Well it appears that he has some problems with his directions. I beg your pardon Chairperson but this is with regard to what Mr Malan said that he should draw a map and I simply feel that in order to save time we could use the video.

CHAIRPERSON: Well let's ask him. What would you say is the southernmost point?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I would say that the southernmost tip would be more east from Ventersdorp. Let's say the Koster area.

CHAIRPERSON: And the westernmost point?

MR PRINSLOO: Rustenburg.

CHAIRPERSON: East?

MR PRINSLOO: The Brandvlei environment.

CHAIRPERSON: And northernmost point?