Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So, why didn't you ask him?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Why didn't I ask him why he gave it to Kuba?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes.

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, perhaps I was too scared to ask him, I don't know no.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Scared of what?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I'm sorry - pardon?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Why were you scared to ask that question?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Because Kuba was our friend and he had the list and now we had a murder on our hands.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you not concerned about Mr Arthur Kemp?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I beg your pardon?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you not concerned about Mr Arthur Kemp as well?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, I was very - yes, I was concerned about Mr Kemp.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And you didn't want to pursue that matter in relation to Mr Arthur Kemp?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, I think when we were having lunch on the 12th, we discussed what we would do and Mr Kemp said something about: "Well, if the police come, I will deny everything", I think he said that in one of his - and I said: "Well, there's nothing to deny because you're not involved in anything, all I - I'm sorry that the list that you drew up is now been involved in this".

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, were you a member or owner of a company or business called Sportron?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, Sportron is a network marketing company and I was a member and not an owner.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And when did you first become involved with Sportron?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I think it was three or four months - maybe the end of December 1992 or November, I'm not sure.

SISI KHAMPEPE: When did you first sign Mrs Venter as a member also?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I signed up Mrs Venter sometime in early 1993 or March 1993, I think it was after - yes, Mr Venter phoned me and said he was moving to Krugersdorp and they moved to Krugersdorp on the 1st of March and sometime - I think he came to see us on the 10th and then after that I went to see his wife and asked her if she would like to become involved.
	And then I had to go and collect samples or something and then I went to her place and showed her the samples and then she ordered something and we discussed when I would deliver it and I think that was the reason why we went over on the 10th of April.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So, you first signed her up around March?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I think so, I'm not sure, it must have been after the 1st of March because that was when they moved to Krugersdorp.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And when did you sign up Mrs Kemp?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: I didn't sign up Mrs Kemp, I never had a chance to go to her.  I asked Arthur whether he thought his wife would be interested but she had just had a baby and she couldn't travel, so I was going to go over there one day with the goods.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, during your criminal trial you testified that there were two reasons for compiling the list with 19 names.

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Was that information correct that you gave before?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, there was a bit of ambiguity about that, I think the Judge came in and said he tried to define that there were - the reason was because of the MME marketing that came onto the computer and the second was to carry on the stories that I had already started and then the third reason which came in some time during the testimony was that Aida Parker and I were going to write a book but that wasn't emphasised too much, it was just given as testimony.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But you gave - you personally gave evidence to that effect?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: That the list was compiled for purposes of writing a book together with Mrs Parker?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, that was one of the reasons.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, you've also testified that you were unable to proceed with the interviews because you didn't get time as your husband was a candidate in the by-election?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, that's correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, if that is so, how were you able to get time to sign up Mrs Venter?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Because Mrs Venter's business was to make some money and I needed money and to sign up Mrs Venter was important to me, I needed the money.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But wasn't this supposed to be a scoop - these interviews?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, but as I mentioned before, it was a long period that I was writing those articles, it wasn't something that was of immediate interest to the public, it was an on-going subject.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, if you didn't get time to conduct the interviews with the people on the list, why did you not pass over that information to Mrs Parker?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Because Mrs Parker doesn't drive and that was also a long-term project, I would have to have gone to see her, she lives in Auckland Park and I didn't really have the time.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But did you tell Mrs Parker that you were now in the possession of the information?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, actually I asked her first if she had that information, she was the first person that I phoned and she said that she was a member of the S.A. Institution of Race Relations and that was where she got most of her information from but because she didn't drive she couldn't get it fairly quickly, so I said: "Well never mind, I'll phone up and ask Arthur Kemp and then I asked him.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, when you obtained the necessary information which you knew that Mrs Parker was also looking for, did you phone her up to say: "I now have the information that you've been looking for"?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, she and I were doing it together, she was collecting her side and I was collecting my side - we hadn't even had a meeting on it, we were just discussing the idea of a book because she and I think fairly much the same.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But I thought the evidence that you gave during your criminal trial was to the effect that she had actually gone out to look for this information and had not been able to locate it.

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, I mentioned that she wanted to get it from the S.A. Institute of Race Relations.   I did not mention in the evidence that she couldn't drive, therefore she had to get transport to go there and she had a problem.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, what is that you had against the journalist Mr Qwelani?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Well, I found Mr Qwelani a very vicious person, very anti-White and that I think that is shared - if you look at The Star and you see the letters that still keep coming in about Mr John Qwelani, I just couldn't believe somebody like that could be so consumed with hatred that he is.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, did you expect him - you've already stated that you expected him to give you an interview.

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, actually I saw Mr Qwelani at a place down in Newtown one day, he was sitting with the two journalists that I knew and - it was at the Market Theatre, and we were having lunch and somebody introduced me to him and he was quite pleasant so I don't imagine that he would have said no - one journalist to another.
	Everybody has their different personal opinion and journalists I suppose like attorneys, have sort of a code - you don't close the door to another journalist, you don't close the door to an interview - I've been interviewed by people from the liberal press so ...[intervention]

SISI KHAMPEPE: Do you know whether he stayed in a Black township?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: No, I didn't know where he stayed.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, if it had been found that he was staying in a Black township, would you still have gone there to interview him?

MRS DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, yes, of course, why not? - yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Notwithstanding the fact that during the period under review - that's about '93, Black townships were engulfed with serious violence?