Human Rights Violation Hearings — Upington — 1996-10-03

CASE NO: CT/04431/

TESTIMONY FROM: MARIA KATRINA PAPIER [daughter]
 ELISABETH  PAPIER    [wife]

MR POTGIETER: Is it Maria who is sitting in front of the microphone?  Good afternoon Maria, welcome here, and is it Ms Papier sitting next to you?  Good afternoon to you as well and welcome to you here.  Before you give your evidence you have to take the oath.  I will first ask Maria who is sitting in front of the microphone.  Will you please stand Maria to take the oath.
MARIA KATRINA PAPIER Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Please sit down.  Ms Papier you will also have to take the oath.  Please stand.
ELISABETH PAPIER Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Please sit down.  Ms Burton will be assisting both of you to lead your evidence.  I hand over to her.  Thank you.

MARY BURTON: Morning Ms Papier.  Are you feeling a little bit nervous?

MS PAPIER: No I am fine.

MARY BURTON: Good, good.  I hope you feel comfortable.

MS PAPIER: No I am fine.

MARY BURTON: You and your mother have come to tell us today about the death of your father, Mr Scheffers who went to work apparently completely healthy in February 1993, just three years ago, a bit more than three years ago.  Please tell us what happened.

MS PAPIER: The Thursday morning...

MARY BURTON: It's all right, you can just take your time.

MS PAPIER: The Thursday morning when my father left for work he was in good health and the Thursday evening when the Boer brought him back home, my father was standing on the back of the bakkie and he wasn't able to speak.  I asked him what was wrong. and the white person never answered me.  
 They took him from the bakkie and put him down on the stoep.  He was lying on the stoep.  I asked for the man, Gert Cloete who was with them, what was wrong with my father but they never answered me.  This white man went back to his own house and I tried to sustain my father but I couldn't help him at all.  This white man came back and said, is this bastard still alive, and I said you can't talk like this, you brought him here like this but he didn't give me an answer and drove off again.  He went back to his house and later on he came back again - has this bastard died already - and I said you can't talk like this, this is my father.  He drove off again.  I tried to help my father but it was to no avail.  
 My mother came home then and she said she must try and get a vehicle to get my father to the doctor.  She went off and tried to get a motor vehicle to take my father to the doctor.  We took my father to the hospital by car.  We only went to the hospital on Friday and they put a drip in his arm.  My mother talked to my father but he couldn't utter one single word.  We returned home again.  On Saturday morning we went to the hospital again and there we heard that he had died.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Ms Papier.  Your father worked for the farmer, Mr Hanekom, is that right?

MS PAPIER: Yes.

MARY BURTON: That is the person who kept and brought him home and then who kept coming back to ask if he was still alive?

MS PAPIER: Yes.

MARY BURTON: And what did the hospital or the doctors tell you was wrong with your father, what was the cause of his death?

MS PAPIER: I don't know.  They never said anything, I can't say what was the cause of his death.

MARY BURTON: Do you  have any suspicions about what might have happened?

MS PAPIER: As I understand, this white man took my father, took him home and he gave him wine to drink.  I don't know what kind of wine was that.  When he brought my father back his mouth was blue, his eyes were swollen and his mouth was frothing.

MARY BURTON: How was it that you heard that he had been given this wine to drink?

MS PAPIER: I could smell.  I could smell that he had taken strong liquor.  I don't know what they've put in this wine, I can't say but I could smell that he had drink, liquor.

MARY BURTON: And you mentioned that there was somebody else who came with Mr Hanekom to bring your father home?

MS PAPIER: Yes this man brought him home from work.  This man also went to the farmer's house and together they brought him back home and put him down on the stoep.  This white man left and the other man returned home as well.

MARY BURTON: That's  Mr Cloete this other man is it?

MS PAPIER: Yes he was Mr Cloete.

MARY BURTON: Was he also a worker on the farm?

MS PAPIER: Yes he was.

MARY BURTON: Ms Papier you say that you had the sense that there was the smell of some strong alcohol.  The investigators were able to look for the post-mortem report which says that your father died of alcohol poisoning but the blood sample that was taken from him was sent to be tested and there was no alcohol found in the blood, so there seems to be some discrepancy still there and maybe that is something that we still need to look into more deeply.  In your statement to us you, what you said was that you want to know why and how your father died.  We will continue to try and find if there is anything more that can be explored through the medical records.  Is there anything else that you want to tell us now?

MS PAPIER: I just want to know the truth why my father died, that is all.

MARY BURTON: We can certainly understand that, that wish.
 Does your mother want to speak as well?

MS PAPIER: Do you wish to speak Mother?  She says no she doesn't feel like it.

MARY BURTON: We can understand that it is very distressing for her.  Can I just ask you then - does your mother get a pension?

MS PAPIER: Nee ons het geen inkomste.

MARY BURTON: And your father was the breadwinner, so how do you manage?

MS PAPIER: We live with our mother's brother.  He doesn't work at the moment.  He sometimes does temporary work.  I also do not have a job.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much Chairperson I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Denzil Potgieter?

MR POTGIETER: Thank your Chairperson.  Maria, in your written statement that we have in our files, it says that your father and Mr Hanekom used to argue with one another because your father was a member of the ANC, is that correct?

MS PAPIER: Yes.

MR POTGIETER: So they didn't have a very good relationship?

MS PAPIER: No.

MR POTGIETER: And you also say that this Mr Hanekom never gave an explanation of what had gone wrong with your father.  He left for work a healthy person and that afternoon he brought him back in that condition you described.  I suppose this Mr Hanekom is the owner of some or other farm in the vicinity of Keimoes and is he still there?

MS PAPIER: Yes he is still there.

MR POTGIETER: One should accept that he will be able to give one or other kind of explanation what went wrong with your father.  Have you ever gone to court in connection with your father's death or in connection with this incident?

MS PAPIER: No.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mev Papier and Maria I find it very difficult to find words to express our feelings to soften your pain.  We hope that we can investigate this matter further to try and find out what exactly happened to your father.  Perhaps this will soften the pain in your hearts and souls and this will be a kind of ointment which will heal the wounds that you have in your hearts.  
 One cannot believe that things like this could have happened in our country, that people's lives were so cheap.  One just could take a gun and shoot another person like an animal or in this case, one doesn't know whether it was poison or what had happened.  But we just want to say, because we also feel hurt and we also feel with you and we pray that God will help all of us that incidents like this never ever happen again in our country.  
 Thank you very much.