Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

MS NKUNDLANE: In 1990 ............. was arrested  after Pops' car had been burnt out, the car was burnt on Thursday night and on Friday I went to school and I came back from school and after school I went to town.  When I came back from town and I was just at home.  I think it was about two or, or, and then the police car appeared.  There was a policeman with, called Pietersen Tomule.  He was alone in the car and he came and I was busy washing the dishes.  I was with my Mom.  He came in and greeted us and asked, who is Porschia.  I said it's me.  He said I'd come to fetch you and my mother asked, why are you taking her?  Where are you taking her to, he, and he says  in the list of the people who've burnt down the car.  My Mom said, what I know is that my child did not do that but if you take  her and kill......Ileft with this policeman.  We also went to fetch somebody called Margaret Chipo(?),  we also found her at home.  We also went to fetch other people they'd arrested.  All of were arrested were eight.  They took us to the police station and at the police station Pietersen Tomule said to us, you are going to speak the truth.  We said, what truth?  He  said, you know what you've done, you've burnt down the car.  We said, we didn't know that.  He started threatening us and intimidating us.  I said you're going to tell the truth.  We're going to show you who we are and we were scared.  We got very scared.  Eventually we wanted speak although we didn't know what seeing the car, but we'd seen some people dispersing after the car had burnt and we also wanted to say the names of those people who we saw running away but we eventually said, no, we don't know.
 They took us to the cells and locked us up in the cells.  They arrested us on Friday and on Saturday, in the morning, there was a group of policemen from Pietersberg who came.  I don't know if they were riot police but they were wearing khaki uniform.  They're very scary, they're very scary guys.  I don't know who to explain them.  They fetched us from the cells and the police called Ziken Mojani was on duty.  He came to fetch us and his job was to fetch one by one from the cells to take us to these other policemen.  They were sitting somewhere in a private place.  They took us one by one and they would look at you in a very threatening way so that when you start speaking you start talking things you didn't know.  And this Ziken Mojani said, if you arrive there, don't be scared of anything.  Don't talk things you didn't know.  If you don't know anything just tell them you don't know anything.  And when I went inside I already knew what to expect although I was scared and they said is, is, is it you, Porschia Nkundlane?  They said, what do you know about the burning of the car.  I said I don't know anything and they started swearing at me, speaking in Afrikaans and said to me, you're talking shit and to-day you're going to speak the truth.  And I said I didn't know anything.  They said, when the car was burnt, where were you?  I said I was at home.  And they said, why did you choose to be there when you, when, why other people chose you that you were there when the car's burning.  I said, I don't know if they hated me and they said to me, go but you're still going to tell us the truth.  You used to these things, you Kaffirs.  And even the food they brought to us, they used to give food to us like they were giving dogs.  I have never seen that kind of tea.  It's like they were burning the sugar and then put it inside of hot water and even the food that we ate, sis, it was full of maggots and worms and they wouldn't even give it to us nicely.  They will throw it at us but we didn't eat their food because the community was there to help us.  
 The community went to business people and asked for food and brought us very nice food and on Sunday they continued to question us.  There were  a lot of  boer police who used to come and threaten us.  We were very scared that they were going to kill us.  And on Monday, usually court in Messina, it  starts at nine but our trial on that day, half past seven.  It was early in the morning.  They took us from the cells and we had not even washed and they pulled us and they were really treating us very badly.  Ill-treating us and pushed us into vans and took us to court.  In court we didn't say anything and they didn't ask us any questions and when we came in, the Magistrate just said our court was remanded.  I don't even remember to what date was it remanded to but it was a far off date.  I think it was on a Monday and we'd been up, and the trial was remanded to thirtieth of March and there was no bail and there was nothing.  We were to remain in custody.  From there they took us and when we came out we saw the whole community was there.  Our parents and they were  waiting for the trucks to start.  In the meantime we'd already been taken in and outside of the court.  And the cops took us and threw us into vans and just real ill-treated us.  One of us hit the cop and kicked the policeman and the policeman spectacles got broken and they took us to the police stations.  From there they took us out of the van and put us in another van to take us to Louis Trichardt.  When they took us, they were real not treating us nicely, they were just very rough with us.  One of the cops had a knopkierrie.  When you get out of the van he would hit with the knopkierrie.  You'll be thrown out of the van and get this knopkierrie hitting and be thrown into another van and they'd push us into this other van and took us to Louis Trichardt.  When we arrived at Louis Trichardt, it would seem as if there were a lot of people,  they'd already phoned in advance before arrived there because we found there were a lot of people, they were expecting us and we were locked into cells.  
 I think on Tuesday, very early in the morning, I think a prison warder came and he called us in our names, one by one and the guys, somebody went to, to, to the guys' cells and we already were to wearing a uniform, awaiting trial uniform.   And they took us out and they told us that the Messina cops had come back to fetch us again.  So they took us from Louis Trichardt and took us back to Messina and they put us again in cells.  And much later the Human Rights lawyer, Serf, Serfontein Katjalia came and the trial was going to be at two, so they took us to a room in the court premises and this lawyer spoke to us and said, we are here for you.  Don't worry and don't panic and all those things and they also asked us what we knew about the incident.  We said, we didn't know anything.  And the trial started and then we were all given bail.  I think it was a group of about five, five hundred rand per person.  One, and the trial started at two.  
 I think they kept on remanding this case and we used to attend the case but every time it will be remanded and eventually we were taken to Louis Trichardt Regional Court.  We went twice and they remanded it.  And all those things were costing us.  It was costing our family to go to Louis Trichardt to attend this remanded court hearings.  And the third time we went to Louis Trichardt and, and when we were there, other people were charged and others were discharged but what I was really worried about was to suffer.  I suffered and I suffered for nothing and there was no reason for me to suffer.  And eventually I was discharged because I was not guilty and that's why the court discharged me because they saw I wasn't guilty.

DR RANDERA: Miss Nkundlane, is, is there anything else you want to say.

MS NKUNDLANE: No, I don't have.

DR RANDERA: Can I just clarify a few issues?  This incident relating to Pops, that you are talking about, is that the same as Mr Moraba was talking about earlier on because you are dating your incident in 1990 and the burning of a car.  He's relating an incident in 1991 and, and the burning of a house.