Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-03-17

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  When we adjourned yesterday Mr Martini wanted to make sure that he had covered all the aspects.  Mr van Zyl may I just remind you that you are still under former oath.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: (s.u.o.)

MR MARTINI: (cont)
	A few question, Chairperson.
	Mr van Zyl, as regards the information that you received from the unaware operatives, if you can call them that - was it part of your duties within your employment with the CCB to verify that information?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Chairperson, no.  I understood that my services would entail that the information that I received from unaware members would be sent through the prescribed channels, in other words to the Co-ordinator and it was the function of the intelligence structure with whom the Co-ordinator had contact would then verify that information and then would find if it was true or not at the end of the day.

MR MARTINI: Mr van Zyl, I want to go through each of the incidents, in respect of the Dullah Omar incident, were you acting on orders from your hierarchy?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is so, Chairperson.  It was an approved project and it was submitted according to the prescriptions and I received my instructions from my Regional Manager who was my immediate commander.

MR MARTINI: Who was that?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: It was Staal Burger.

MR MARTINI: Now I don't want to go through each act, I take it - can you confirm that in respect of the Evans, Early Learning Bombing and Bishop Tutu incidents the same applied, exactly the same, your acting on orders as you stated earlier?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is indeed so Chairperson.  I would just like to point out that in with regard to the Evans matter I personally did not do the submission to the Chairperson, it was not my project.  Only at the eleventh hour was I instructed by Staal Burger to execute the operation for the project with regard to the ape foetus matter at the Archbishop's house, I did not do any submissions, I received a direct instruction from the Regional Manager to do what I had done as I have testified yesterday.

MR MARTINI: Mr van Zyl, do you have Exhibit D before you, that's the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's Report?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I have it.

MR MARTINI: I just want to read two paragraphs and ask you to comment.  Paragraph 141 and I'll read it.  No, there's another one.  The heading is "1985 to 1989 The War Comes Home".

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, this is the one where there are two 141, two paragraphs, 141 is the second one.

MR MARTINI: It's under the heading "The War Comes Home", Chairperson, paragraph 141
"However, by the second half of 1985 unrest is spread throughout South Africa whereas previously unrest had occurred sporadically in the homelands and in the rural areas.  In the post 1985 period it became more sustained.  The widespread demonstrations and more violent forms of dissent and opposition which began in the Vaal Triangle in August 1994 surprised not only the government but also the ANC."
I want to read paragraph 144:
"The opposition of MK in this period can be categorised as follows.  Firstly there were bomb attacks on urban targets.  The targets selected were meant to be Security Force related but the reality is that more civilians than Security Force personnel were killed in such explosions.  The reasons included technical incompetence, faulty devices, poor reconnaissance, poor judgement or misunderstanding by operatives.  In addition there were some deliberate blurring of the lines which gave operatives the leeway to vent their anger of placing bombs in targets that were not strictly military.  Lastly, there were instances where explosives were tampered with or Security Force infiltration resulted in civilian deaths."
Now I want to take you to paragraph 163:
"Finally the above took place in the context of a nation-wide state of emergency that effectively remained in place from June 1986 till mid 1990."
164, the first sentence:
"In the year after the imposition of the national state of emergency the full force of the strategy of counter-revolutionary warfare unfolded domestically."
Is that how you understood the situation to be prevailing in South Africa at the time that you were employed by the Special Forces, by CCB being the Special Force unit of the South African Defence Force at the time?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is so.

MR MARTINI: Now 384, when you agree with the statement of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission
"Thus the CCB represented a new method of State directed warfare in South African context, a part of Special Forces but structured and functioning in a way intended to make it seem it was not.  Would that be correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Yes that is correct.

MR MARTINI: Thank you.  Now Mr van Zyl, we come to the victims.  Let's start with the Dullah Omar incident.  You were in Court when you heard Minister Omar make a statement to the Commission, is that correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: When the statement was read by his daughter, yes.

MR MARTINI: Now is it correct, Mr van Zyl, that in respect of the Dullah Omar incident you've already been given immunity from prosecution by a judge of the Supreme Court?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is the case.

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl, before these hearings had you ever had occasion to meet Minister Omar before testifying, let me put it that way.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No Mr Chairperson, I had an occasion on Tuesday morning and I used this occasion to apologise to Minister Omar personally for my part that I played in the conspiracy to kill him and I did this because of my human and Christian convictions, there was no pressure put on me, I know it is not expected of me but I think it is nothing more than just right.

MR MARTINI: You did it voluntarily and not in the presence of all these proceedings?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct, yes.

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl, in respect of Gavin Evans, had you ever had occasion to meet Mr Gavin Evans prior to these hearings?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Yes Mr Chairperson, as long ago as March 1990 I had the occasion to meet Mr Evans, I see his parents are sitting at the back here, I assume that those are his parents.  In these proceedings and at that occasion this was in the Cape at the Somerset West, Strand.  I used this occasion to apologise to him for what I was involved in referring to the project aimed against him.

MR MARTINI: So you also apologised to Mr Evans before these hearings?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Long ago, ten years ago.

MR MARTINI: Had you ever had occasion to meet Bishop Tutu?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No unfortunately I've never had the occasion and I hope that in the future I will have the occasion but I would like to use the occasion to apologise regarding the Archbishop Tutu matter and I am sure that he is a very good person, he is a Christian person and I believe that he will understand the circumstances and he will accept my apology.

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl, have you ever had occasion to meet any of the victims of the Kewtown Youth Movement or we've heard that Mr Sonn in these hearings is a trustee of the trust that owns the building, have you ever had the occasion to meet the representatives of the owners of the Early Learning bombing centre prior to these hearings?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I have never.

MR MARTINI: Do you have anything to say to those victims?