Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-23

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I had fired my 6 shots when Mr Meiring shouted that we should depart because a vehicle was approaching. We climbed into the Sentra. And before we pulled away Mr Kloppers shouted to us to meet them at the Town Hall. We then left and waited for them at the Town Hall. We saw emergency vehicles from the fire brigade, the Police and the ambulance driving past us and I assume that they would have been on their way to the place where we had just been. And we tried to get out of town as soon as possible so that we could go to Mr Badenhorst's house and change into other clothes. Mr Meiring and I went back to the Town Hall to see if we could find Mr Martin and Mr Kloppers. They had not yet arrived. We went back to Mr Badenhorst's home and there we found Mr Kloppers, Mr Martin and Mr Visser. But Mr Diedericks had already been dropped off at Mr Martin's home.

MR PRINSLOO: And there at the home of Mr Badenhorst was there any object? They mentioned an ear, do you know anything?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Mr Kloppers asked who had fired shots. Everybody answered in the affirmative even those who had not fired any shot because Mr Kloppers was severely agitated. He thought that we were trying to run away from the scene. He was rather angry and everybody answered in the affirmative. He said that he had received an ear and he ordered some one to go and fetch the ear in the Mercedes. The person fetched the ear, brought it in and he showed it to us. He said that he would take the ear to the General the following day because he would have wanted it.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that General Oelofse?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And after that did you return home after these events?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Chairperson after Mr Kloppers and Mr Martin had spoken to us we left for home. Mr Meiring and I drove together.

MR PRINSLOO: On the 16th of December 1993 did you attend the proceedings at the Voortrekker Monument?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No I could not attend the proceedings I was in Lichtenburg at that point. I was relieving the manager there. And I could not attend the proceedings.

MR PRINSLOO: Is it correct that on the 6th of January 1994 you were arrested?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: By the South African Police?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And that you were detained in terms of Section 29, the Act on internal security?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: How long were you detained?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: It was from the 6th until the 17th when we first appeared in court.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you make a statement to anybody?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: To who did you make a statement?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: To Lieutenant Louis Smit from the South African Police.

MR PRINSLOO: What led to your making a statement?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: They came to fetch me at home, they did not arrest me.

MR PRINSLOO: Is this the Police?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes that is South African Police. They took me to Protea in Soweto Murder and Robbery. When we arrived there I had not said anything. I had denied everything as anybody else would. I tried to maintain my innocence. The Police officers showed Kloppers to me. It looked as if his face was as big as a watermelon because it was so swollen. He also showed me Mr Martin who was seated in another room and I could clearly see that his face was very swollen, that he had been tortured and they said to me: "If you do not want to talk then this will happen." And I made the statement.

MR PRINSLOO: And this statement that you made was it submitted during the court proceedings as evidence?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes, they used my statement as an exhibit.

MR PRINSLOO: And do you have a copy of the statement in front of you? Is the truth contained within that statement or not?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Chairperson as I am sure, I am speaking for myself, I tried to maintain my innocence. I did not want to admit that I had committed the act. I tried to appear innocent and I tried to place as much of the blame on the shoulders of others. It is very confusing seeing as I was on medication. I had a heart attack on the 4th of January 1994. I was on very string medication at the time that I made the statement.

MR PRINSLOO: So what you are trying to tell the Committee is that it contains certain untruths?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And in the court itself did you testify?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: Regarding this specific case?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: This case and that of Mr Martin and Mr Kloppers did you speak the truth in your own case?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No not the whole truth.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you at any moment say that you had used alcohol?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I thought that if one had been under the influence of alcohol it would be a mitigating circumstance and I told them that I had been drinking a lot.

MR PRINSLOO: Was that the truth?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No I was sober. I had only had one glass of neat whisky and it did not make me drunk.

MR PRINSLOO: Did it influence you in any way?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: No.

MR PRINSLOO: In the prison itself after you had been placed in prison did you meet General Oelofse there, who was being detained?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes. He had been detained from the time of Soweto Police Station with us.

MR PRINSLOO: And in the Diepkloof Prison did General Oelofse speak to you or speak to other applicants in your presence?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: He spoke to all of us because we were held alone in a section and it would have been difficult to speak only to one or two persons and he told us that he wanted to congratulate us with what we had done. That he was very proud of us and that we would later be given medals for the operation which we had carried out. He also said that he was very angry with the other areas who had not acted as they should have.

MR PRINSLOO: Did he express any doubt in terms of what Kloppers had told you that evening at Harry's Roadside Cafe?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: I executed instructions as I received them. I did not doubt them.

MR PRINSLOO: But the question is; when you heard what General Oelofse was saying to you and your group in prison regarding the others who had not carried out instructions, did you in any way after hearing that have any doubt in that which Kloppers had said to you at Harry's Roadside Cafe?

CHAIRPERSON: Before that he doubt the veracity of the instruction then?

MR PRINSLOO: I will repeat the question. Was it affirmative to you regarding what Oelofse had said to you in the prison that what Kloppers had told you to do that evening was in fact the truth?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And in the prison were there any congratulations extended?

PETRUS JOHANNES MATTHEWS: While we awaiting trial I was promoted to a field cornet by the General because he was there with us, that is General Oelofse. As well along with the two Commandants. He promoted me to field cornet. And later when we had already been sentenced Mr Terreblanche came to visit us in December 1995. He and certain members of the Generals and staff. And  from there it became even more clear to me that Mr Kloppers had been speaking the truth. And Mr Terreblanche also congratulated us and after that we also received further promotion in our ranks. And I took this to be a congratulations for the deed.

MR PRINSLOO: Regarding the deed itself the shooting of those persons on that evening, why did you do it?