Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: And they could assume fairly safely that they'd probably done by uMkhonto?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But they wouldn't know who had done it?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, they would also be aware that some of these operations will be false flag operations, which was part of the scenario at that point in time, there would be operations conducted by the apartheid Security Forces so as to discredit Umkhonto weSizwe.  So, but they would know which - they would know the general trend of operations and in their discussions with the military, they would know what the military plans were and what is likely to happen in the near future.
	Likewise, the military would be able to also receive general information of what was going to happen in the political underground machinery.  But these were general trends and tendencies without identification of persons or structures that were involved.

MR LAX: Just with regard to the APMC, was there a political component of that?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, that's the P in APMC.

MR LAX: Right.

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Area Political Military Committee.

MR LAX: It was within that context that you then acted as a liaison?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, there would be occasion when the top person in the military and the top person on the political might have an occasion to meet to discuss.  I would be involved in setting that up and taking the necessary precautions but would not have to be part of the meeting itself.

MR MOERANE: Mr Ramlakan, in the papers served on you it's alleged that you are implicated in the Grosvener Girls School explosion on the Bluff on the 24th October 1985.  What do you know about that particular incident?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Some two hours after the operation itself I was visited by Vulamele Khlate who handed over to my care Sibusiso Mazibuko and I was informed by Vulamele that I had to treat this man and ensure that he leaves the country if that is possible.  Now I was not informed as to how the man which I assumed was a comrade, how the comrade was injured or the actual events that lead up to him arriving at my home.  I proceeded to treat him for his injuries.

MR MOERANE: What were the injuries?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: He had sever lacerations on his face and he had a burst eardrum and once he had stabilised and we had arrangements for his transfer to Swaziland, I and Ricky Naidoo who served in largely on a number of occasions as a logistics support officer, transported him to the border where he was handed over to the comrades who were based in Swaziland.
	Upon questioning Sibu Mazibuko as to whilst he was recuperating under my care as to what had happened, he'd informed me that he was involved in the explosion at Grosvenor Girls School which was a polling station for, if I think my memory serves me correct there was a referendum around that time by the apartheid government.  He was involved in that operation with two other comrades, one Zinto Cele, the other one was Mandinkosi Dimande.

MR LAX: Just repeat the last name for me please?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Mandinkosi Dimande.

MR MOERANE: The names appear on page 6 of bundle 1, under incident 13.

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: What had happened was that Zinto had gone to place the charge which was armed and Mandinkosi was about two or three metres about him and Sibu himself was a good ten metres or more behind.  The charge exploded when it was switched on and he found himself on his back on open ground.  He got up and ran away.  He didn't let me know any further details, where he ran and what he did but he ran away and that's how he ended up being handed over to me.

MR MOERANE: Before Sibusiso Mazibuko came to you for treatment, had you known anything about that particular operation?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: No.

MR MOERANE: It's also alleged that you are implicated - yes, in incident number 6.  This is on page - well it's incident number 6 in bundle 1, 19th June 1985 - Durban Beachfront, Excel Tearoom Explosion.

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, that appears also in bundle 2 on page 41 at paragraph 4 where the allegation in court was that I drove past the restaurant to ensure that the device had exploded.  I did no such thing and I was not involved in that operation.

MR MOERANE: Yes.  Now for your involvement in the African National Congress, in Umkhonto weSizwe, the underground, did you receive any financial benefit?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: No.  The obvious other question is not asked, did I receive any financial disadvantage?

MR MOERANE: Well Mr Ramlakan, I'm not going to ask you that.  Some other persons might ask you that.

MR SIBANYONI: Were you practising as a medical practitioner?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, I'd been five years qualified and at that point in time I was actively running the casualty department of King Edward VIII Hospital.

MR SIBANYONI: As a person who was involved in a struggle, obviously comrades will now and again come to you for treatment if they were involved in an operation?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Not necessarily because that would flout the rules of need to know.  If somebody were to present to me with an injury I would be the kind of doctor who would not ask any questions or feel a need to report as required statutorily the nature of certain injuries that I had treated.  I would simply not comply with the legislation requiring me as a doctor to report to the Police authorities that for instance I treated a gunshot wound.  But I was not the doctor, the military doctor who was going to treat military comrades, there were numerous sympathetic doctors who treated our people who were injured and in operations or as a result of activities of the South African Security Forces.

MR SIBANYONI: The last question, like for example Dr Ribeiro?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes, of course, he was known by the Security Forces to have treated a number of comrades and that we are given to understand is why he was killed.  If I were to be the doctor who was chosen to treat the comrades, most likely that would have come to the knowledge of the Security Branches as well.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you very much.

MR MOERANE: What sentence did you receive?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: 12 years.

MR MOERANE: And of that how much did you serve?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: We were released after four years of the actual sentence itself but altogether we had been incarcerated for close on to six years.

MR MOERANE: I see.  So you are applying for amnesty in respect of the offences that you have disclosed?

VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN: Yes.  It's been quite difficult to decide what to apply for and I think overall, speaking for myself, but I think it applies to all who follow me, is that the definition of an act, what is an act, is not really understood by we laymen and in my case I didn't know whether I had to apply for those activities where I served a command function and whether - because you must remember, even in the TRC overall, there seems to have been lack of clarity about whether those of us who had been to prison would need to apply for the acts for which we had been to prison and in my application you would see that I say as requested by the Archbishop.  Of course the Archbishop could only be Archbishop Desmond Tutu, but he made a plea to all of us.  That combined with the instructions from Albert Luthuli House, from military headquarters that comrades who had been to prison should apply, resulted in us applying for amnesty at a very late stage.  I think it was on the Friday before the applications closed on the Monday.  So what you'd see is applications by our group that were done in quite a big hurry.  We were complying with the request from the Archbishop and from our military headquarters.

MR MOERANE: That is all the evidence I propose leading.  Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MOERANE