Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-29

JOYCE SIKHAKHANE RANKEN: I think, Commissioner, it is a very difficult, you know, question you are asking me.  I think if we understand why we had apartheid in this country, that apartheid was aimed at dehumanising all of us.  I think there is not a single South African, especially the South Africans, maybe, who came from the White community, who would say I was not collaborating with apartheid.  You know, I am making a sweeping statement, you know, right now, but apartheid benefitted, as you know, largely, the White community.  Therefore, one can say they were just as equally responsible for what happened to those who ended up in detention, who did this, who were brutalised by, you know, apartheid.
 I think those who broke down in detention, if they were to come and say to South Africans we broke down, we understand, we were there.  We have met quite a number, we talked to them.  South Africa is reconciling.  I do not think they were the enemy.  The people who were the enemy, it is these ideologues I was mentioning.  The Johan Coetzee who even when TRC started they said there was no torture, we treated the detainees very well.  He challenged the, you know, TRC to take to court, he wanted to take to the TRC to court, but because the people of South Africa had resolved that the TRC will be there and will continue, he has failed, but I think in his failure, it would be good to bring him in front of the TRC to say, why is it that he did that.  He was Mr Clean.  He was a mind torturer.  He did not stab, he did not put the electrical shocker on, you know, sexual parts of his victims, but he was behind those menials, the men who did that.  He was the paymaster of those people.  
 Okay, so we have to look at this in terms of that somehow.  The people who did break down, I think they should come and say, yes, we did and I think South Africa, the South African democracy is so strong that they, it will say we understand this has happened to you in your life.  They may not expect forgiveness, because I do not think people are expecting them to say forgive me.  People are expecting that they should accept that they did fall.  I think earlier on I said, you know, people who fell, it was not just a question of falling and dying at the hands of the enemy, it was also at what they turned you to become later on.  Others have become monsters, okay.  That is part of falling and that is what the enemy enjoyed and that is what they are enjoying today, people like Johan Coetzee, you know, Swanepoel, Rooinek, okay.  
 So, I think, if we look at it in that way the press, the one which is responsible for taking a very simplistic, you know, answer to this question, they will have to go and dig and find out where Johan Coetzee is, where Rooinek Swanepoel is and ask those people why did they turn people into this.  I think they will find the answer there.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  Joyce, you also alluded to a matter which also is a human rights violation, that which, in fact, the Truth Commission has not been tasked to deal with as have a number of other issues, the Pass Laws, for instance.  You talked about the Immorality Act.  I know that it is quite personal for you to talk about your own experiences and if you do not feel free to discuss that, that is okay, but we have not really had the opportunity to deal with that, because, quite frankly, our mandate is to deal with gross human rights violations, but I was wondering if, while you are here, you could just give us a very brief comment on the Immorality Act and your own experience.

JOYCE SIKHAKHANE RANKEN: I have often said to people that, you know, the Immorality Act was a denial of what South Africa was all about.  Before it was even instituted how many mixed people did we have in this country?  How many cross cultural marriages or relationships did we have in this country?  That was a testimony that, you know, that South Africa, you know, people have gone beyond, you know, just being a specific racial group, a specific this and that.  So, it was the denial of the reality which was there in that country.  So, I knew in the heart of hearts that one day it will just pass, because even before changing this country, Immorality Act was outlawed, even before there was political change.
 Therefore, it was not really the issue in South Africa.  It was, the issue was power, political power, the issue was economic power and in whose hands it fell and they just used Immorality Act as one of those methods of dividing the South African population.  Just as they did with the homelands, the ethnic question.  So, that is how I saw it.  It is nothing special being married to a person who is White.  It is nothing special.  It is like when you marry, you know, the person you fall in love with.  It is nothing special, you know, in the true sense of the word.  It is two people falling in love.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Joyce, you mentioned the censorship through informers.  I just want to inform you about a hearing, a special hearing on the media that we, the TRC is going to organise for next month and I wonder, I would, as a journalist and from what you have experienced, I am sure we would like to have a submission from you, as a journalist, particularly related to that hearing which will only deal with the things that happened through the media and the misinformation we are talking about here and, I think, it would have more importance if it came through that hearing and I am just making this invitation in case you did not hear about it.  Thank you.

JOYCE SIKHAKHANE RANKEN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce, thank you very much.  It is pleasing to note that there are people like yourself who, although they have gone through this difficult journey, but who are thinking about these things.  Much as you are sharing about  your personal experiences, your statement clearly reflects your commitment to even what should happen during the phase of healing and reconciliation.  We really appreciate your coming forward today.  Thank you very much and also thank you to your son.  I hope this is Nkosinatie behind you.

JOYCE SIKHAKHANE RANKEN: Yes, that is him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, okay.  Thank you very much for coming with your mother Nkosinatie.