Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-25

CAPT MENTZ: No, not at all Mr Chairman.  The first time I heard about this was in the newspaper and I 
later saw it on TV, it's only Ngqulunga's brother and Mamasela mentioned this, but from the time that it 
happened until 1995 when I had left Vlakplaas long before, I hadn't discussed it with anybody, I was no 
longer a security policeman.  But in the period after leaving Vlakplaas when I was still a security 
policeman I never heard anything about this again.  I vaguely remember that Baker long after that said that 
De Kock had told him that the Generals had said that the operation had been carried out successfully, I 
don't know which Generals were involved, but I deduced that it was General van Rensburg.
	At Vlakplaas, when something happened, you were forbidden to discuss it with anybody because 
everybody drank there and you never knew what somebody would say if he were to be under the influence, 
these things were never discussed again, definitely not from my side, it was something which I wanted to 
forget about.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay, Captain Mentz, did you regard your activity or your actions as 
something against liberation movements?

CAPT MENTZ: Yes, Mr Chairman.

ADV DU PLESSIS: And to whose advantage did you regard your action to be at that stage?

CAPT MENTZ: Well, the Government of the day Mr Chairman.  I as a policeman had to serve the 
Government of the day.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 114

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay, Captain Mentz, did you have any discussions with the other persons who were 
involved in the incident, the people whom you've mentioned, Colonel Baker, Captain Bellingham and I 
think it is Captain Botha?  Did you have discussions with them?

CAPT MENTZ: I had Mr Chairman, but only at the end of last year when they had indicated that they 
were also submitting amnesty applications.  I can't remember the exact date.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Could you briefly indicate to the Committee what their point of view was with 
regard to the reason for this operation?  Did it agree, did it disagree?

CAPT MENTZ: ;	It was exactly the same Mr Chairman, that the man leaked information from Security 
Headquarters and it
was Baker and Bellingham's instruction to me at the time as well.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay. Captain Mentz the allegations made that Ngqulunga was a potential witness, 
where did you hear these allegations?

CAPT MENTZ: As I've already stated Mr Chairman, in the newspapers and Mamasela, but not that 
which he had said here in the Prime Evil video, it was on another programme, as well as Ngqulunga's 
brother which I saw on TV one evening.  The rest of it was in the newspapers.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Are you aware that these allegations went any further as far as your knowledge goes 
today than mere allegations?

CAPT MENTZ: No, Mr Chairman.  As I've already stated Brigadier van der Hoven or Taylor, if they 
were to come and state it here that that was the reason, then I will agree and say no, I believe it, but until 
now I don't believe it 
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 115

CAPT MENTZ: Mr Chairman, because in my opinion it was a matter that he gave out information, no other facts had been 
proven.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Okay. Captain Mentz then could I take you to page 55 paragraph 3, you testified 
there that Ngqulunga had said "no comrades, no comrades, I'm one of you", can you remember those words 
specifically being stated?

CAPT MENTZ: Yes, Mr Chairman, I can remember that.  Not in Afrikaans, he stated it in English, he 
didn't say it, he shouted it out.  The man knew that he was possibly going to be murdered.  He was a small, 
slender man and he struggled and he shouted these words.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Could you then just state very clearly to us why you thought he would have stated 
these words, or shouted these words?

CAPT MENTZ: Mr Chairman, I would have imagined he was an ascari who was working for the 
Security Police, he was passing on information to the ANC or to whichever liberation movement, but I 
mean he would have realised that it would have been totally impossible for everybody in the liberation 
movement to know about him, because then he would have been smoked out and at the stage when he was 
shouting out, I thought he wanted an opportunity to explain to the members of the ANC as he suspected, to 
explain to them that he was still working with them.  So it was my impression that he was still involved 
with the ANC.

JUDGE MGOEPE: If he had realised he was going to be killed, surely a man under those 
circumstances would have said anything to save his life?   If he had been under the impression or if he had 
realised that you were the police, he still would have said the same thing and said people, I am working 
with you?
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DU PLESSIS: 116

CAPT MENTZ: I have to grant that Mr Chairman, yes.

JUDGE WILSON: Who were grabbing him at the time?

CAPT MENTZ: It was I myself, Piet Botha, Riaan Bellingham.  Baker was standing at the vehicle -  no I 
can't remember whether he was standing outside or whether he was sitting in the vehicle, but Bellingham 
and I and Piet Botha opened the left-hand door, hit him, grabbed him and dragged him over to the kombi, it 
was a struggle from the Golf to the kombi.

JUDGE WILSON: You were all white men wearing balaclavas which would have left your face 
exposed?

CAPT MENTZ: ;	Mr Chairman, it was quite strong dusk and the balaclavas were not the balaclavas where 
you have an open face, you could only see the eyes, we were wearing dark clothes and long dark gloves.  
You wouldn't really be able to see our skin colour.  Mr Chairman, I can't really
remember the exact time, but it was late afternoon when it was going onto dusk.  I can't remember, I can't 
tell you exactly what the time was.  After five, probably six o'clock, but I can't remember the exact time, 
but it was dusk.

HASSAN MALL: The instructions to eliminate this man, came to you not from De Kock himself but 
through somebody else?

CAPT MENTZ: Yes, Mr Chairman if I remember correctly I was on the farm and Baker and Bellingham 
came and told me.  It didn't come from De Kock directly to me as far as I can remember.

HASSAN MALL: Have you finished Mr du Plessis?

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, I am finished, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER

<UNKNOWN>: S BY

ADV DU PLESSIS: .

<UNKNOWN>: S BY

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Mentz, could you clarify.  You said you arrested 
Nofomela at some stage or were you
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

ADV DE JAGER: 117

CAPT MENTZ: involved in the arrest?

CAPT MENTZ: Almond Nofomela, yes, that is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Is that when you were working at the murder division?

CAPT MENTZ: Yes, that is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: And you were then recruited to go over to Vlakplaas?

CAPT MENTZ: That is correct Mr Chairman.

ADV DE JAGER: During his arrest, did you receive information regarding the functioning of Vlakplaas?

CAPT MENTZ: No Mr Chairman, as a matter of fact I didn't even know of the existence of Vlakplaas 
when I was working at the murder division.  It was after I had first arrested Nofomela's co-accused Johnny 
Mohane if I remember correctly, it was only after that when he had been arrested that
evening, that he made an admission to me that he had implied Almond Nofomela ...(tape ends) I made 
enquiries then and said that we were looking for the man and then Almond Nofomela was sent from 
Headquarters to my office and when he arrived there, I arrested him.

ADV DE JAGER: Was there at any stage an effort made to cover up Nofomela's deed at that stage?