Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...and what was your next action?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: The first action was that I asked him whether everybody had been advised.   The answer was yes.  I then said to Viv, "Viv, get to the airport", okay, "I'll stay at home", and the reason for that is very simple, Mr Lewis stays much closer to the airport than I do, I'm 55 kilometres away, and I didn't want either of us to be travelling and not be available, so I said, "Viv, you go to the airport, let me know when you get there, then I will come out", and that's what I did.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Now, you then went to the airport?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I then went to the airport, and that gives you a better indication of the time, because it was that time of the year, I got to the airport just when it was, let's say about five o'clock, the sun wasn't quite out, okay, but it was on its way, it was dusk, and you can check from that what time it was.   It was round about five o'clock.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: That is correct.   And who accompanied - who was there with you, you were clearly the most senior South African Airways man at the airport, who was with you that morning?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: At that morning, Viv Lewis was already there, Captain Mickey Mitchell was already there, because he stays closer to the airport, and some of the other senior officers, I cannot give you all the names, and then of course the people that have to deal with safety and an emergency like that, and of course Mr Venter, our spokesman for the airline... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Let me remind you of one of the people.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...communication man.   Yes please.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Sorry, I'm sorry for interrupting.   Let me remind you of one of the people who was there.    Do you remember a pilot by the name of Captain Jimmy Deale being there?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: You were never... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: He could have been.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: You were never aware that he was there?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I cannot say I was not aware, you understand, I cannot recollect.   If you give me the name Jimmy, then the name Jimmy Hepworth jumps up.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Right.   But Jimmy Deale was there that evening, would you, you won't deny that?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I will not, well I cannot say yes or no. It's not that evening, please, it was early that morning.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Right.   Early the next morning?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Early the next morning.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: It was after midnight?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No, Saturday five o'clock... (inter- vention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Ja.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...in the morning, that's when I got to the flight ops building.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Was the legal adviser for South African Airways there at the time?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Mr Attie Malherbe, I don't think he was there at that point in time, no, I think he came later.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Okay.   Now, you've also been on record, very vociferously at the time and over the ensuing years, as saying that South African Airways, and clearly it is your own stated intention, wants to make absolutely certain that the truth about the Helderberg comes out?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: And that every assistance that the airline and yourself could offer was there for the taking?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: And that you would in no way intimidate or prevent the truth from coming out?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Definitely not.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: And that it was the airline's stated intention to find out what had gone wrong, through Margo?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Or through your own endeavours?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: We have nothing to do with an investi-gation into an airline, that is the responsibility... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: No, let me stop you... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...of DCA.   Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Let me stop you.   I understand that DCA bears the final responsibility, but you as an airline, having lost an expensive piece of equipment and 159 lives of valued crew and passengers, wanted to know what was going on, didn't you?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: You wanted to know what caused that fire, didn't you?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: You stated... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: We still do want to know that.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...you were going to offer Margo every assistance that was possible for Margo to get to the truth?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: To Judge Margo or DCA or anybody else.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: For Judge Margo read DCA, because they acted as one and the same group, but you were not going to inhibit that in any form or shape?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Definitely not.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Now, I'm going to come back to that.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Uhum.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ZUR, tell the commission what the functions of ZUR are.   Let me lead you through it.   ZUR, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is a home base radio station, which maintains long distance communications with your overseas fleet throughout the world?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes, on a periodic basis.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: I'll get to the periodicity of it in a minute. ZUR is set up as a permanent radio station at SAA?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: It has a sophisticated tape recorder?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Which has a 24 hour a day reel to reel tape recording apparatus?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: I don't know whether the reel occupies 24 hours, but it has a continuous recording capability.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Correct, it's roughly one reel per day, let me help you.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Thank you.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: And those reels are manned 24 hours a day by a staff of about three people?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Not only are the manned 24 hours a day, but Mr De Veer, those reels are kept for at least a month, and probably nearly five weeks?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Correct.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: And they are kept under lock and key?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Correct.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: What is the function of ZUR?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: To be able to communicate with the aircraft from the, let's say this central control of the airline, and to give the pilot the ability to record to central control, and we have the system of roughly every hour of reporting back to base station... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: That's correct.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...finding out whether everything is okay, whether there's any problems or any messages or any urgency, I mean (indistinct) just having chairs and things like that, right.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Sometimes more than an hour... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...sometimes it was an hour and a half, it depended... (intervention).

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...there were standing regulations?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Yes, and it also depended on whether one could reach the aircraft... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Correct.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: ...depending on the time of day, because this is not a foolproof communication system.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: No, I understand that.

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: Okay.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Now, ZUR, with it's full-time apparatus, its full-time occupancy of a building and its full-time staff on a three shifts a day, was not a cheap operation to run, was it?

GERRIT DIRK VAN DER VEER: No.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: It cost the airline a substantial amount in salaries, perks, benefits... (intervention).