Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

CHAIRPERSON: We have lost time in the process.  Mr Vally it is quite clear to me that we are not going to finish either this witness - we are not either going to finish this witness or recall the other two witnesses who we had wanted to warn.  It's half past three now, by quarter to four almost half this panel will have left.  I suggest that this should be a convenient stage to adjourn.  To adjourn only for five minutes for you and counsel to arrange dates and for me to warn all the witnesses who are here to appear on that date.
 Can we then adjourn until twenty five to?

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chair.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Can you get ready to resume please before I am left without a panel.   Mr Vally please make this one as painless as possible.  I don't want to fight anyone, I even want to hug Mr du Plessis and everybody else, I just don't want a fight -  please.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did you have some ecstasy in the break.
(General laughter)

DR RANDERA: He is looking for some.
(General laughter)

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: Do you want me to talk to you about dates now Mr Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: Well there are just a few things that I would like to put on record.
 Firstly, that I have been advised by the investigators that they did actually contact Mr Roelf Meyer at the time that their investigations were going on.  He did make some explanations and it seems, therefore, that being aware that the investigations were being pursued in contemplation of a hearing of the nature that we've held, though we can't say he waived his rights, he was very much aware of it.  And in any event should a finding be made an opportunity will be made available to him in terms of Section 30.  I just wanted to place on the record that we are satisfied that no undue prejudice was made to Mr Roelf Meyer.
 Secondly, the Archbishop, who is the Chairperson of this Commission, asked us, as the panel, to extend his own sense of gratitude to all the people who have made these hearings the sort of hearings that they are.  
 He wishes to place on record his appreciation of the way in which all those who were participating in these proceedings have conducted themselves, in the course of battles, before the battles, after the battles.  He got a distinct impression as we were proceeding, that notwithstanding differences, the legal representatives and everybody else were conducting themselves in a manner that showed that there was an attempt to get the process going on.  
 In particular he said I must indicate his sense of gratitude to all those who made the work possible, the investigators in particular.  But by extension all the staff members who make it possible only for us to sit here and appear to be very clever when in fact the work has been done in the backrooms.   
 Those are the remarks that I wanted to record.
Mr Vally now that I've indicated that everybody has cooperated and the Archbishop has seen that I expect that you are going to go through this one very quickly, showing the same degree of cooperation.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chair the situation is as follows.  Mr du Plessis is available for next week Thursday and Friday.  Mr Arendse will make himself available.  He has matters but he has kindly agreed to move those matters to make himself available.  Mr Cilliers has indicated that he has got commitments but he would also try, he stressed he would try to make himself available for Thursday, Friday next week.  And that's where we are until you recalled us.
 So our suggestion is this hearing be postponed to Thursday and Friday of next week, which I believe is the 18th and 19th of June.

CHAIRPERSON: Are those dates being confirmed in the manner in which Mr....

MR CILLIERS: Mr Chairman that is correct as Mr Vally has said.  I am just worried, I will try, but as you know if you come from a practice, I am just frightened I can't give the assurance.  I have to go back to various attorneys and see whether we could get some postponements.  I am worried about the situation that large group of people will assemble and I will keep in contact with Mr Vally, but I am worried about a cost aspect.  There are many legal representatives who will have to come here at a high cost, that you will postpone to a date that I am not sure of.  My learned colleague is definitely not available, but if one of us could be here we could continue with this.  But I want to place on record that I will try to get here, but it's a matter of various arrangements to be made on Monday.  My position is regarding  Thursday and Friday is problematic.  But I have given Mr Vally the undertaking I will try my best.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, can we then put it on the basis that these proceedings are postponed to Thursday of next week, the 18th of June, the intention being for the proceedings to proceed on the 19th as well; that all the witnesses are warned to appear; that in-between arrangements, should these be necessary, should be entered into between legal representatives Mr Cilliers and Mr van Zyl with Mr Vally, and that we should then be placed in a position to understand what the position is.   But otherwise the matter is postponed to or adjourned to the 18th of June at nine o'clock at this venue.

MR VALLY: Yes I have got no problems with that except on Monday, but I will arrange with Mr Cilliers to contact someone else.  Thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: The proceedings are adjourned.
HEARING ADJOURNS TO 18 JUNE 1998