Special Hearings — Legal Hearings — 1997-10-27

MR NAKA: Thank you Madam Chair. I must say I've been a magistrate in KwaNdebele for a very short period. Because it was from the 1st of March 1984 to the 6th of August in 1986. That I was a magistrate to my mind was not a mistake. It was my conscious and deliberate choice. After the experience I had in 1976 when I was doing matric in Bupeti Mapeti. I was one of the students that were arrested in that day for the protest that we had at our school. Subsequent to our arrest we appeared in a magistrate court where the magistrate was black, the prosecutor was black, the police officer investigating the matter was black. But the type of justice or the type of injustice that we got in that court persuaded me to pursue the legal profession.
 And when I landed in KwaNdebele it was simply because I happened to have been introduced to James Mashlanwe and I got the bursary from KwaNdebele. But when I went in there I thought as part of the administration of justice I could make a difference. With the hindsight I realise that was naivety if not utter stupidity. The system (...indistinct) me completely. I went in there, I could not be independent. If I took a decision that the executive or any member of parliament did not like they would use the office of the secretary of justice to come down very hard on me for the decision that I took. And we were given instruction on a number of issues. Even though we tried to resist the orders that were given to us. But as my submission I mean will indicate, even though it's not a very good submission. It was just notes that I was making. 
 Because we tried to resist the orders that were given to us I was suspended and eventually locked up under a state of emergency. But prior to my being locked up, when I was dismissed I was just called to the cabinet and I was fired. And when I went to the secretary to say I was fired he then said you must come tomorrow you will get your letter of dismissal because I had insisted on it. The following day when I went there it was not a letter of dismissal but a suspension. And the charge that I was facing in terms of that letter was that I'm insubordinate, I refused to sign attendance register. But the truth was the secretary was covering for the dismissal that the minister has effected. 
 In terms of the interference with our duties. One: we were in a self-governing territory. It had the tribal authority and if we took judgements against those tribal authorities we would be told that we are encouraging the undermining of the traditional system in the particular area and therefore we are making ourselves guilty of insubordination. 
 And the other cases that Mr Skosana presided over it was a bail application by James Mathlanga, who was then a prominent opponent of the government of the day. He appeared there, he was arrested with his attorney he arranged or bail application. They sat I think until two 'o clock. Bail was granted and then lieutenant van Wyk he came to Skosana and told him look that is a very unpopular decision you took and it cannot be sustained and the following day James Mathlanga was again arrested and this time he was put under the emergency regulation so that we should not be able to grant bail in that particular set up. But there it be to be short on this aspect. It's I got in there hoping that I could make a difference in this legal system but I must tell you I was (...indistinct) by the system. We tried to complain because we were part of the department of justice anyway in South Africa. The prosecution, the team was part of the attorney general. We tried to protest and complain but nobody listened and at the end of the day I was kicked out of the system. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Hanif?

MR VALLY: Maybe we should start with Mr Skosana. Mr Skosana we had this strange situation where KwaNdebele was self-governing territory with it's own (...indistinct) for justice but the person responsible for the courts and for the prosecutors was the attorney general based in Pretoria, is that correct?

MR SKOSANA: That's correct. That is correct and as the situation worked that time the attorney general would only give you a certificate, a mandate prosecutor by the employment and the powers rested with the government. That's why wherever there was a conflict in terms of an instruction and the government we often fell prey of the government.

MR VALLY: When you complained to the attorney general in Pretoria, attorney general of the Transvaal did he ever support you on political issues?

MR SKOSANA: He never wanted to be drawn into a conflict situation. He never wanted to be seen in coming with (...indistinct) a situation (...indistinct) this aspect.

MR VALLY: On what authority did Lieutenant van Wyk take all dockets regarding cabinet ministers and MP'S directly to the attorney general in Pretoria?

MR SKOSANA: Initially lieutenant van Wyk came to office and told me that he had that instruction. That he was the only person within the entire homeland who is having the capacity to handle those matters which in fact I disputed. But I verified it with the office of the attorney general and what followed thereafter we were served with a written instruction from the attorney general's office indicating that all case matters involving the cabinet ministers and the MP'S had to be handled directly by lieutenant van Wyk with the attorney general and we should not interfere or access those matters. And if given that chance I would go and search for that documentation because we were all served with that document in all the prosecutors.

MR VALLY: So from your point of view was there unbiased justice meted out with regard to cases involving cabinet ministers and senior officials in KwaNdebele?

MR SKOSANA: I don't follow the question?

MR VALLY: Did the prosecution behave in an unbiased manner in determining whether or not to prosecute cabinet ministers or senior government officials in KwaNdebele?

MR SKOSANA: I may say yes. Because they were quite in a very difficult situation as I have indicated earlier on. Because they were always threatened. There were in fact two prosecutors who were expelled from the government for being trying to work in an ordinary manner with and treat those members of the executive the same way as other people.

CHAIRPERSON: May I follow that up with a question? Did you ever prosecute any members of Imbagoto?

MR SKOSANA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you prosecute ANC activists in the area?

MR SKOSANA: What, on those political matters what would happen they would arrange a special hearing where a magistrate and a prosecutor would be deployed from Nelspruit to come and handle those cases which involved comrades. And we were perceived to be sympathetic to comrades therefore we were not trusted with those matters because the members of the executive felt that we could not stamp our authority upon them. Therefore there was a practice whereby people they were deployed from outside to come and handle those matters. Only with regard to the members who opposed the government.
 And what happened to the matters involving members of the (...indistinct) and executive members, they were never prosecuted. But immediately after the change of government in the area all those cases that had been opened which involved (...indistinct) resurfaced. And there was some effort to reinvestigate those matters and charge those people thereafter, after the whole situation.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Skosana. I just want to ask Mr Naka this question. I think a lot of the area has been covered already and if you need to, especially on the issue of interference with your functions as a magistrate please raise it. But the one specific question I want to ask you is as a magistrate after you were appointed in 1984 were you allowed to preside in cases where white people were accused?