Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-24

BONGANI FINCA: We welcome you Nombulelo.  Asking that before we hand over to Adv Denzil Potgieter, that you should put on your earphones in readiness to answer the questions that are going to be posed to you by the Advocate.

ADV POTGIETER: Good afternoon Miss Charlie.  Welcome here.  The statement that was given to us, came from your mother who gave us some idea of the background to the incident that happened to you in August 1985, but we are happy that you are here personally so that you can give us a first hand account of actually what happened on this particular day.
 So please relax and tell us exactly what happened when you were injured.

N CHARLIE: It was in August 1985 when we were at school the big boys instructed us to leave school because in the afternoon we were going to a meeting, so we did exactly that.
 In the afternoon we went to Masesames School, but I did not get inside, I stood outside, because it was full in the room.  So we talked that they were forcing us to be taught in Afrikaans, so we toyi-toyed and I decided to go home.
 The following day at about five o'clock, I was on my way to the shop to buy paraffin.  As I was walking in a passage going back home, I saw a hippo from afar, but I couldn't see who the policemen were who were driving this 
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hippo.
 That was the last time I can remember, then I don't know what later happened thereafter, because I think they shot me and left me there.
 Someone picked me up from there and they did not know me, they took me there and someone just left there.  My whole body was covered with blood, they hit me on my eye.  I could not be taken to a Doctor because those days you would be arrested if you were taken to any Doctor, so I kept indoors.
 Late at night, the police came and knocked.  I said to my mother, oh, please, hide me.  They came, then my mother saw one called Cross  saying VIVA.  Then this policeman asked where is Nombulelo, then my mother said, I don't know Nombulelo.
 Then they said is the child here who has been shot on the eye, then they took my brother away.  After three weeks my aunt who used to work for a particular Doctor asked me to go and hand myself over.
 So they took me to a Doctor and the Doctor said I was to go to a Hospital in East London, so I did go there.  I was there for about two weeks and they said they were going to take my whole eye out, because it was spoilt, so I had to go back home and wait for the Specialist.
 My brother gave me the money for travelling because my parents were not working at the time.  I then went back to hospital and then they were going to take out the eye and put in an artificial eye and they were asking for R285-00, then I agreed, so they put in this artificial eye and we paid the R285-00 for this.
 I used to go for treatment frequently, I still go for 
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the treatment even now.  Then one bullet was here on the forehead and it was taken out and one that was in the head, could  not be taken out.
 I sometimes have headaches.  Some other times I would go to the Hospital in Sterkspruit for treatment, but now I've come back.  That is all I have to say.
 Even those policemen who shot me, never got arrested.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you said that when this incident happened, you were still at school.  You were doing standard 6 and how old were you?

N CHARLIE: I was 15 years old.

ADV POTGIETER: Now, were you on your own when you were walking to the shop?

N CHARLIE: Yes, I was on my  own.

ADV POTGIETER: And, was there anything going on in the street, was there any unrest, was there any problems or was it normal and quiet?

N CHARLIE: There was a toyi-toyi in another street.  No.

ADV POTGIETER: Was the only vehicle that you saw in this street where you were walking, this hippo that you referred to?

N CHARLIE: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: And it subsequently appeared that you were shot amongst other things?  Could anybody else except the people who were in the hippo, have been responsible for shooting you?

N CHARLIE: Yes, it is these people who were in the hippo that shot me, because they were the people who were in the street where I was walking.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you say that you were struck on your eye, you were hit on your eye, is that correct?
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N CHARLIE: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Is that the eye that had to be removed subsequently?

N CHARLIE: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Now, you've referred to the injury to your eye and the bullet that was removed from your forehead, and there was another one that you referred to in your evidence.  Did you have any other injuries?

N CHARLIE: The other bullet is in my head.

ADV POTGIETER: So was it just the two bullets - the one in the forehead that was taken out and the one in the head?

N CHARLIE: The bullet in the head is still there, they could not take it out.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay, that's no problem.  What happened after this incident - did you continue your schooling or what happened to your schooling?

N CHARLIE: I continued with my schooling in  1986, but my eye gave problems and I could not write properly, but now I am not going to school.

ADV POTGIETER: I notice that you are wearing glasses.  What is the condition of the other eye?

N CHARLIE: I can see, but not clearly.

ADV POTGIETER: What are you doing at this stage?

N CHARLIE: I am just sitting at home, doing nothing.

ADV POTGIETER: And do your parents care for you, do they look after you, maintain you?

N CHARLIE: They  do some of the things, but they don't do everything for me because they are unemployed.

ADV POTGIETER: Have you got any idea who it was that shot and assaulted you, hit you on the eye - which policeman?

N CHARLIE: I really can't tell, because they were far at QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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the time.

ADV POTGIETER: Have you ever consulted a lawyer or anybody else in connection with a claim for your injuries?

N CHARLIE: In 1988 a certain man took me by the name of Mr Mbona and Nkosana Nogani, took  me to a hotel in Lututu and said there was an attorney there, so I went there and gave him my statement and he said he would call me.  Then the person who had taken me there, Mr Mbona died.
 But I was never again called to those lawyers.

ADV POTGIETER: Can you still recall the name of the lawyer that you saw?

N CHARLIE: I really can't remember well.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you know where the lawyer was from?

N CHARLIE: They said he was from Grahamstown.

ADV POTGIETER: From Grahamstown?  The other person that was with, Mr ... - the one person died you said and there was another person with when you went to see this lawyer.  Is that other person still available, can he be contacted?

N CHARLIE: Unfortunately they both died.  This other one died recently.

ADV POTGIETER: Is there any other way in which we could trace the lawyer involved, find out who it was because it could be of some assistance?

N CHARLIE: I can't think of anybody, because even my brother did not know.  I just went to the hotel where the lawyer was with these two men who died, so there is just no way in which we could get information leading to the lawyer.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay, we can think about that problem later.  Is there anything, any request that you want to make to the Commission, Miss Charlie?

N CHARLIE: I'll request the Commission to help me
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because if I had continued with my education, I may have helped my parents, because those I was with at school are now teachers and nurses, so my aim was to work for my parents.

ADV POTGIETER: We have noted that and we want to thank you for coming personally and telling us what happened.  I will now hand you back to the Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Any questions?  Dr Romachela.