Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR RICHARD: Chairperson, I am indebted.  My client does want to tell all the details, however, from past experiences during the week, time is limited.

CHAIRPERSON: I hear what you say you have arranged your information according to categories, but because we don't have enough time, please be brief.  When he asks you a question, quickly look at your sketch and answer immediately.

MR RICHARD: Thank you Chair, so we can go back to the High court.  Now, have you finished telling us what happened at the High court?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes.

MR RICHARD: Now, according to what I am told and instructed, one day you were going to a station somewhere near where you lived and you saw a vehicle with an individual in it.  Would you please proceed from there on?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Each time I went to work, I will put on the Mandela United tracksuit.  Now they used to trace me and to want to find out where my residential place is.  At the back the tracksuit was written Mandela United Football Club.
 I went to Muzimuhle station and I saw a car parked.  I went home and I took my tracksuits to gym.  I met the boy that time.  I went to work and I got back and he stopped me.  I saw one guy called Shabalala who called me and said I am a (indistinct) Chief and I said what (indistinct) are you talking about.  Then he said, no it is fine, just go.
 Just before I reached my house, I saw another car parked and I got inside my house and I saw the boy or the gentleman that I was talking to, passing again.

MR RICHARD: And what happened next?

JERRY RICHARDSON: After that, I was confused as to what was happening.  One day Pretorius got home and arrested me.  He took me to a bush and when we got there, he said coach I would like for you to work with me.
 I said, in what manner?  I want information, that was Pretorius saying that.  I want information about the Football Club and I realised that I was in danger now and I said yes, I can work with you and he said okay, let's get into the car and we drove off.
 Now, I went to Ellis Park and I saw him in the car again and he gave me a lift again and said I should get inside the car and he said I will make it a point that I keep an eye on you and he dropped me next to the road and he took off and I got inside the stadium and I watched soccer and he came to my work place as well.

MR RICHARD: And did you start providing Sergeant Pretorius with information?

JERRY RICHARDSON: No, I never gave him any information.

MR RICHARD: You didn't start providing him with any information that might have been useful to the Police about the Mandela household or the Football team or the activities of cadres?

JERRY RICHARDSON: No.  I never did.

MR RICHARD: Right, so we will come back to that.  That leads us onto an event, that leads us to an event on the 9th of November 1988, where were you on that day, you remember it clearly?

JERRY RICHARDSON: 1988.

MR RICHARD: The 9th of November?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I was at my house in Muzimuhle.  I was with some friends that I used to call them with their names Sipho and Debogo.  How I knew my friends was through Mrs Mandela because she said she will give me some guys to live with and she did bring them to me.
 On that day when she brought them home, she never left both of them, she only left Sipho and she went away with Debogo.

MR RICHARD: On the 24th of November 1988, do you remember making a statement to the South African Police about the events that took place on that day?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes.

MR RICHARD: And do you remember giving both Adv Vally and myself a statement about the events of what happened at your house?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, I do.

MR RICHARD: Now, without me reading the statements to you and taking you line by line through it, would you briefly describe what happened?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I don't want to hide anything.  I have put everything on paper.  Like I said, I have given so many statements, but they are very economical with the truth.

MR RICHARD: That is why I am asking you to tell us and take us into your confidence now as to what happened on that day.

JERRY RICHARDSON: I want to go back to that matter.  What I am about to say, won't collaborate with what is in the statement, today is a different day completely, it is not that day.

MR RICHARD: I am not concerned with what I have in front of me, I am concerned with what you are about to tell us.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please thank you.

JERRY RICHARDSON: This is what I have in mind.  Mrs Mandela came with two people in her micro bus.  Shakes was the one driving.  There was Shakes, Mrs Mandela and the two others in the car.
 Mrs Mandela got out of the car and got inside my house to me.  She had told me before that she was coming and she told me that I am bringing these people now and I said no problem, Mommy, because I had my girl there in the house and he left the boy.
 I knew already everything as to what was happening and Sipho got inside and we were playing TV games with my girl, my daughter and Sipho requested that I excuse the girl from our company because he wanted us to talk about something.
 And we started talking and said Mommy has told me everything about you, you are very alive and you are very active with soccer and Mommy told me everything about you.  Now, we will get into details about life.  I am a guerilla.  Then I said oh, I have heard about guerilla's and Sipho went on and on talking.
 And he asked as to which bedroom he will sleep in and I showed him the bedroom and I told him that I will be sleeping in the sitting room.
 When he was getting to the bedroom, I already knew that he was going to sleep there and my girl came back to me and now we were talking, the three of us.  He was looking around, kept looking around the house and he lived with me then.

MR RICHARD: For how long did he live with you?

JERRY RICHARDSON: He lived with me for quite a long time, possibly nine months upwards.  What I mean is he lived with me close to nine months.

MR RICHARD: Now, did anyone else come and live with you during that period?

JERRY RICHARDSON: It so happened that where Debogo used to live in Diepkloof extension, he had a conflict with the people in that house because of the girlfriend issues and each time he went to Mrs Mandela's, Sipho would have to go and get information from Mrs Mandela and Sipho told me that there was a problem emanating and he did not know that we were living the four of us, in the house now.
 And Sipho said without Mommy's knowledge, we might get into trouble.

MR RICHARD: And what else did Sipho and Debogo ask you?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Sipho told me that it was time for me to go get my material.  I should go to Mama and indeed I went to Mama and I told her that Sipho had sent me.  He had given me some letters and he had covered them and I did not even bother to open them, I did not know what they were communicating about through the letters.
 Indeed, I gave Mama the letters and Mama said Gogo Falati, go with Jerry to give Jerry that bag.  Just around the corner, they went there and they got the bag and they gave it to me and I ran out of the yard with the bag and I got to the house and I gave it to Sipho.  Sipho opened the bag in the house in the bedroom, and there was a lock.  It was locked and Jerry showed me in the bedroom all what was inside the bag and instructed me that I shall never let the child get inside that room.

MR RICHARD: What was in the bag?

JERRY RICHARDSON: There was AK47, but divided.  There was AK47 separated, there were grenades as well.  I was even scared of touching those things, I just looked at them.

MR RICHARD: Now, this clearly is slightly different to what happened on the 9th of November.  How long before the 9th of November was this?  Some days, some weeks?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I don't remember.  It was around November.