Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-20

MS MORAKA: Chairperson the next applicant is the 12th applicant Patrick Smangaliso Simelane.  Chairperson Mr Simelane's going to testify in Zulu.

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: (sworn states)

MS MORAKA: Mr Simelane is it correct that you've submitted and application for amnesty and that it is from page 137 to page 143?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: And with your application you submitted an affidavit  that you attested to from 143A to 143D?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: Is it further correct that your application, the form for application, you did not fill in with your own hand, under your own hand.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: Would you tell the committee why it is that somebody else had to fill in this for you?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: On that day when I was supposed to fill out my application for amnesty my arms, both of them, were injured so I could not fill my application form.

MS MORAKA: Do you however accept or confirm the correctness of the application and the affidavit ?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: Can we for a moment move away from your application Mr Simelane and talk about your personal particulars for the record.  You were born on the 22nd of September 1970 in Soweto.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: You grew up in KwaZulu Natal but attended high school in Soweto and at the age of 13 you were detained for 5 days for having part of a boycott against age limitation?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: In 1984 you became a member of SOYCO and in 1985 you left the country?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: You received military training in Angola and a commander course.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: In 1986 you came back into the country, arrested in 1987, charged with murder, escaped from prison or from hospital, rearrested, another charge was added to this one, you were acquitted of the murder charge and convicted on possession of explosives.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: 1988.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: Sorry Chair, this is 1989.  You were then sentenced to one year of imprisonment, five thereof suspended.  You were however released in 1990 in terms of the Groote Schuur understanding?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: Upon your release you continued with your studies and you matriculated?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: During the period 1990 to 1993 you worked for the ANC, for want of a better word, in the Welfare Department?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: And in 1993 you were redeployed and you went to the Regional Headquarters of the ANC?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: In 1993 the Regional Headquarters moved to Lance Hall.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: Yes that's true.

MS MORAKA: The Regional offices are at the corner of Jeppe and Von Weilligh Street.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: The main entrance is along Jeppe Street?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: And the parkade entrance is along Von Weilligh Street?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: Can I now draw your attention to your application and the statement that you made.  Is it correct that you filed the same statement for the inquest hearing?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: On the 28th of March 1994 you were employed by the ANC at the Regional Offices as a security guard.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: And on this particular day of the 28th of March 1994, you state that you had received certain information.  Can you tell the committee what information you'd received and from whom?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: As it is know that there was this big publicity that there will be this campaign to boycott the election.  On the 27th, the evening of that day, I met Africa Khumalo.  He was the one who was the head of security Regional Office ANC, that is.  He explained to me that as there will be this march, there are details that we have gathered in as far as the attack of the ANC offices.

MS MORAKA: You arrived at work on the 28th at approximately 07:30.  Is that correct?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is true.

MS MORAKA: Were you armed?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: No I did not have any firearm in my possession.

MS MORAKA: Do you possess your own firearm?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: Yes I had my firearm.

MS MORAKA: Why did you not have your firearm with you when you went to work?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: It so happened that day when I was leaving my house in the morning, there was already some chaos in the location, it was around 6 am.  For that reason I decided to leave my firearm with my younger brother to protect my family.

MS MORAKA: An incident occurred during the early hours of the 28th in front of Lancet Hall.  I will not draw your attention to that incident but however, thereafter you were deployed in the basement of Lancet Hall.  Is that correct?  After the incident.

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: With what were you armed?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: I had a 12 gauge shotgun.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Ms Moraka, what incident are you referring to, for completeness sake?

MS MORAKA: As the committee pleases.  Would you perhaps very briefly tell us about the incident at 08:00 at the entrance of Lance Hall in Jeppe Street?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: To briefly Explain it so happened that I was on the 5th floor, I heard some noise and I left that place I went down to see as to what was happening down there.  When I got there I found other ANC guards that I will not be in a position to remember or recall their names.  They were standing there with a group of people that had just fled into the building.  There were certain men having traditional weapons in their possession, they approached and they stood right next to the entrance of the ANC offices.  As they were still standing there they were chanting their slogans, war songs.  Immediately one of this men got out and pointed us with his spear and said:  "The dogs are going to die today", and one of the guards that I was standing next to by the name of Silo drew out his firearm and shot in the air and he went back to the other group, that other men.  That is what happened that day.

CHAIRPERSON: The person that fired, what was his name again?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: His name is Silo.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did he fire?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: He shot upwards, he fired upwards.

MS MORAKA: To correct that, at that stage you only knew his name as Silo but you now know that he is Mr Magagula?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So what happened after this man named Silo fired upwards?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: The other guy who had an assegai ran back to the other group and the rest of the group proceeded downwards, I don't know to which direction.  I don't know where they were going to.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes very well.

MS MORAKA: You had your shotgun with you at that stage is it not?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: Yes that is correct.

MS MORAKA: You are now at a stage when you're deployed by Mr Khumalo to the parkade.  Whom did you find there?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: I got the late Vilikazi (?), he was also an ANC guard.

MS MORAKA: (inaudible)

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: That is correct.

MS MORAKA: What kind of weapon did he have with him?

PATRICK SMANGALISO SIMELANE: He had a CZ83 nine millimetre.