Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1977-08-07

CHAIRPERSON: This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee which has met to consider an application by Vusi Linda Hlengwa.  The Committee comprises of myself as Chairman, Advocate Chris de Jager as Senior Counsel on my right and Advocate Ntsiki Sandi on my left.  Mr Brink are we ready to proceed?

MR BRINK: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shembe?

MR SHEMBE: Yes Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: That's correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: My full name is Phinda. (spelt)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: Surname is Shembe. (spelt)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Brink, why are we starting so late?

MR BRINK: The prisoner was not here on time, the applicant rather.

ADV DE JAGER: Is there anyone in command of the prison people?  Could we have an explanation as to why he's so late?

CHAIRPERSON: The prison opens up at seven.

MR BRINK: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: The prison opens up at seven.

MR WILLS: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: But I think you were told that we start at half past nine.  The Magistrate's Court starts at half past nine in the morning ...(inaudible)

MR WILLS: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: I understand you are ...(inaudible)   Mr Shembe are you ready to proceed?

MR SHEMBE: Yes Mr Chairman, I'm ready.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: That's correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you please stand?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: (sworn states)

MR SHEMBE: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Hlengwa, you are appearing today in front of the Amnesty Committee to ask for an amnesty for the offences you are just serving sentence for and in order for you to be considered for amnesty you must be truthful in all what you're going to say in front of this Honourable Committee today.  I would like you to take us step by step and precisely and concisely as to what actually happened because you are the only person who knows exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened.  Without you we cannot reach the truth which can lead you to freedom or which can keep you in prison as long as the sentence you were given.  I hope I make myself clear to you.  So starting now, you were convicted for committing six offences so for how many of them are you asking amnesty for?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: With regard to all the counts.

MR SHEMBE: Can you take us as to how did you come about to commit the offence number one, that is the murder Masulele Makanja?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I'll first start by saying that our place was having problems.  If Masulele - if we did not have problems that is the Inkatha as well as the UDF, Masulele would be alive today.  I don't know whether I should go on?

CHAIRPERSON: I think it would be better ...(inaudible) instead of allowing him to ...(inaudible) put your questions to him specifically you know, lead him.  It would be better if you led him.

MR SHEMBE: Thank you Mr Chairman.

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHEMBE: I beg yours Mr Chairperson ?

CHAIRPERSON: Now if you could tell us who was the victim Makanja?

MR SHEMBE: Mr Hlengwa can you tell us who was this victim Masulele Makanja?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Masulele Makanja was a person that I grew up with in that neighbourhood or village.  We were staying in different sections, he was staying at the other section but generally we grew up together.  We had friends in those different sections,  I had friends in his section, he also had friends in my section but as soon as there was this eruption of violence between the Inkatha and the UDF, that's when the cracks in the relationship started showing.

CHAIRPERSON: When...(inaudible) the eruption ...(inaudible)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I could say this started in 1989.

MR SHEMBE: Do you know which political party was this Masulele Makanja?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I do.

MR SHEMBE: Which political party was it?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: He was a member of the UDF.

MR SHEMBE: And what is your political affiliation?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I was a member of Inkatha.

MR SHEMBE: Are you still a member of Inkatha?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I could say that but I haven't been politically active since I've been  imprisoned.

MR SHEMBE: In your application for Amnesty you mentioned that your house was burnt down and that thereafter ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: That is correct.

MR SHEMBE: And thereafter there was this attack which, there was this anger which you had inside you which prompted you to attack.  Did you any specific person to attack after the burning of your homestead or you had the anger vented  against the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) we don't know when his house was burnt down.  I think you should first put that on record as evidence - he may have said it in his application for amnesty but that's not evidence.

MR SHEMBE: For the record Mr Hlengwa, is it correct that your homestead was burnt down somewhere in 1988?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, that is true.

MR SHEMBE: Do you have ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: That was in 1990 when my house was attacked.

MR SHEMBE: Do you know or do you have any knowledge as to how was that house burnt?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Yes, I do have some knowledge as to how my house was attacked.

MR SHEMBE: Can you briefly tell this Commission as to how this house was burnt and ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: Even before I get to the attack and burning down of the house, I was detained of the State of Emergency and thereafter certain members of the UDF who were my neighbours with Masulele included as well as Tambani Mbata, they came and Masulele pointed me out.  They were together with the soldiers and I was taken into the Casspir.  I was arrested and incarcerated CR Swart and the police at CR Swart tortured us and humiliated us.  That was their job to make us admit to some things that we didn't do and they broke my jaw.

CHAIRPERSON: When he talks about they arrested us and they tortured us, we would like to know what he's talking about, who is us - is he talking about himself or is he talking about a lot of other people?

MR SHEMBE: When you say ...(intervention)

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: I was arrested all by myself.  The other one who was with me has since been deceased.

MR SHEMBE: You have not come to the exactly, come now to the actual burning of your homestead, how was your homestead burnt then?

VUSI LINDA HLENGWA: It was at night, we were just sitting not expecting anything and we heard some gunfire outside.  Whenever there was gunfire people would switch off their lights and seek some hiding places and I was able to peep through and see as to what was going on.  I saw a group of people from different directions as well as the direction of the hostel and some were coming from just above my place.  When this happened it was apparent that these people were coming towards my place and I decided that we should either defend ourselves or run away.   I was armed at the time,  I had petrol bombs as well as self, a self-made pistol or gun and I was able to shoot at them, they got scattered.

ADV SANDI: Mr Shembe, can you ask your client who he's talking about when he says we decided to defend ourselves?  Who was that?

MR SHEMBE: ...(no sound)