Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-06

MR LYSTER: We will begin this morning's proceedings with evidence from Mr Zweli Dlamini who, as indicated yesterday, will be testifying with a balaclava so that his image is not projected in the media in order to protect his safety.  The panel as well interested counsel have had an opportunity to identify him.  Thereafter we will call Dr Rocky Williams from the side of the Defence Force and after the lunch break Mr Howard Varney will make an unsworn submission and those parties represented here who wish to make a counter or rebutting submission, will have a limited opportunity to do so, bearing in mind the time limits which are available to us.  We have - it has been indicated to us by counsel for General Liebenberg that they would want to make such a submission and they can do so after Mr Varney's evidence.  If anybody else representing implicated persons wishes to make a short submission, if they could please notify Mr Macadam during the break so that we can look at limiting the length of these submissions so that we are able to finish this afternoon.  
For those people in the audience who wish to follow the proceedings with the use of earphones, the evidence - the first witness will give his evidence in Zulu and it will be broadcast in English in the hall, but there are earphones available for those who want to follow it in Afrikaans or in the original Zulu.
Dr Boraine who was with us for the last two days is not here today and he will not be returning to the panel and I would like to welcome another member of the Truth
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1A Commission, Professor Simangele Magwaza from the Reparations Committee.
I think those are all the opening remarks I want to make.  Mr Macadam.

MR MACADAM: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I have been approached by counsel representing the Inkatha Freedom Party who indicated to me that he wished, prior to evidence proceedings to place certain things on record if he may be permitted to do so.

MR LASICH: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, there is a matter that concerns us.  As we understand it, Mr Luthuli is still a witness in this matter.  His evidence will continue after the hearings dealing with the Caprivi training and we have good reason to believe that Mr Luthuli gave a press conference after the Commission adjourned yesterday, which is something we believe amounts to a gross irregularity.  This morning I contacted Mr Macadam to ascertain what transpired and he seems to be more familiar with the facts.  He's definitely not involved in the press conference and we are not suggesting the Commission had anything to do with this.  I would appreciate it if he could just indicate to the Commission what his understanding of what transpired yesterday, what took place, in other words, yesterday, if he could just indicate what took place yesterday, for the benefit of the Commission.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR MACADAM: Mr Chairman, what transpired is that a member of my staff who is on duty at the proceedings was approached by a media person indicating that the media wished to interview Mr Luthuli.  According to him, he referred the matter to Mr Luthuli's counsel and the matter
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1A was dealt further by Mr Luthuli's counsel.  I noticed at the adjournment of the proceedings, while I was preparing my files for today's proceedings that Mr Luthuli was surrounded by a number of people on the stage before he left the actual stage, but what transpired at that stage I'm not aware.  I may place further on record that I had occasion to listen to the 8 o'clock news broadcast on TV3 where the - Mr Luthuli was reported as having indicated that Minister Buthelezi was aware of his activities or had sanctioned them, words to that effect, but as I understand Mr Luthuli's evidence, at no stage did he in any stage implicate the Minister.  All his allegations related to Mr Khumalo.  I'm not - I cannot comment on where the television got that information from, whether it's a misquote of Mr Luthuli's original evidence or whether it was information volunteered after the adjournment of the proceedings.

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mr Macadam.  Mr Stewart, is there something that you wish to offer?   I certainly can't take the matter any further, I didn't know about these developments, although I would caution against witnesses still under oath from talking to the media, but would you like to ... (incomplete)

MR STEWART: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Luthuli has come forward over the process of a number of years now wishing to tell the truth as he experienced it and as it happened and that's what he wishes to do before the Truth Commission now and in due course in his amnesty application and he is committed to doing that and he shows no disrespect to the Commission.  Quite the contrary, he is committed to the process that the TRC is embarked in.
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1A There is nothing which prohibits him from also speaking the truth, as he knows it, elsewhere than before the Commission and in clarifying certain questions or certain matters which he had given in evidence yesterday and clarifying them to the press yesterday evening, which is what happened and what the press had sought, he didn't contradict in any way the testimony that he had given before the Commission yesterday and merely answered some questions that the press had asked which they may well have felt that Commissioners may have asked Mr Luthuli in order to clarify certain aspects of his evidence.
And if I may say one additional thing and that's in response to Mr Macadam, the record of course will reveal it, but in my recollection it's not quite accurate to say that Mr Buthelezi wasn't implicated in any way in yesterday's testimony.  He was implicated in certain respects about functions which took place when the trainees returned from Caprivi, so there were certain aspects in which he was mentioned and in that sense implicated.
I have nothing further to say.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR LASICH: Mr Chairman, I wish to hand over to my instructing attorney who has some things to say on behalf of Dr Buthelezi and the Inkatha Freedom Party about the incident yesterday.  All I can say it surprises me that an officer of the Court would condone such actions.  If I may then hand over to Mr Falconer.