Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-12

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Would you please address that paragraph?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Sibosiswe Sishle Ngomkwa, his real name is Robert Mglanzi.  He was later sent in after there was a power struggle between Khate, Glomu and Ramlakan.  He was sent in to take overhead command of the Durban A.B.M.C. or Operation Butterfly as it was known in ANC language.

MR VISSER: Can we refer to him at George Falkudo because it fits in well with the western tongue?  Was he in action for a long time before he was arrested?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No Chairperson, after his insurgence into the R.S.A. he was arrested with the rest of the members of Operation Butterfly.

MR VISSER: Very well.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: And the other members who were military trained was Linda Oskar Moni, with an MK name of Stan.

MR MALAN: Mr Botha, it is all put there, I think you could just refer it, you don't have to go so slowly through the names.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Chairperson, to add there is the name Kevin Qhoboshiane, he was responsible for the political side of the area political military committee.

MR MALAN: Can you just give the surname please?

MR MALAN: Qhoboshiane, I will spell it Q-h-o-b-o-s-h-i-a-n-e and that is if my spelling is not incorrect.

MR MALAN: Advocate Sigodi can tell us whether she agrees with that.

ADV SIGODI: Well I will agree except for the H after the Q.

MR VISSER: We'll settle Mr Chairman.
	Very well, is there anything else you would like to add or amendments or any other explanations?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Mr Chairperson, the units were already identified which had to be trained in kwaMashu, Lamontville, Umlazi and further north in the direction of Tongaat.

MR VISSER: Anybody there that was mentioned that is of important to these applications?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: The unit of Lamontville and I was of the opinion that there was more than one unit in Lamontville was Sipho Stanley Bhila and in Alan Taylor's unit was Pumezo Nxiweni.

MR VISSER: Alan Taylor is not a person, it's a place?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That's the medical residence of the University of Natal and they were all students there who lived there at this instance?

MR VISSER: Do you see any other names?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: The name of Pila Ndwandwe does not appear under the name of the unit although she was associated with the leader elements of Ramlakan and she lived in the same house as George Fakude and leadership members of the Ramlakan.  She was used as the secretary by Fakude and as an assistant nurse by Ramlakan when people were injured and as a courier to carry weapons from Swaziland.

MR VISSER: And if you have regard to the following page, this is page 2 of Exhibit H and there is a heading which reads MK Machinery 1988 and then reference is made in the left bottom corner, it was Suma's unit and we find three names there of three members of the kwaMashu unit for which application for amnesty is being heard.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Please explain that heading to us?  Let me ask it in this manner, according to your recollection when was the incident for which amnesty is applied for?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: If I recall correctly, it was November 1988.

MR VISSER: And just above the names I that I have just read to you or which I have referred to you, Vusi Mjali, Sibusiso Nglovu and Phila Khaze and there's the name of somebody else, that is Pila Mdwandwe acting commander?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson, she is identical to the person Zandile.

MR VISSER: By the way, there is no doubt or it is regarded as common cause that she was indeed acting commander because from the documentation in this document H which we received from Mr Prior, there is indeed notice given that a certain Richard Valihu, codename Jones, was called and he also says, in the first paragraph he says Phila Ndwandwe was acting commander in Swaziland from about July/August until her abduction as a result of the arrest of Tami Zulu and Fear - not meaning fear of the ANC - Mr Fear, the codename by the ANC.  These are the persons involved with these applications and are you satisfied with the placement of these names under the circumstances under which these names are placed as it appears in Exhibit H?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: I am satisfied.

MR VISSER: This is according to your knowledge how they fitted in together?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Just one question.  We've referred to it that there were two units in Lamontville, were there?  You would know if you know the structures.  What are you trying to tell us, I'm not sure if we have to take note of it.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Chairperson, this is not a document which refers to one unit.  I was of the opinion that names were divided into more than one unit.

MR MALAN: And if you say you were of the opinion, you say there was more than one?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: According to my recollection there was more than one unit.

MR MALAN: Two or three or ten, how many?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: I will have to study the documents to find out exactly how many.

MR VISSER: We have already referred to Exhibit A where reference is made to incidents which were part of the charges in the Ramlakan case.  Can we simply just say now that persons who acted under Operation Butterfly indeed had committed acts of terror and there was later the Ramlakan case with the consequences attached to those?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Can you please tell the Committee were there any arrests made?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Mr Chairperson yes, a total of 54 people were directly or indirectly involved in Operation Butterfly and from these arrests there were persons who were charged at the end of the day and that was 12 as mentioned.

MR VISSER: In the amended charge sheet?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Was Zandile accused?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No Chairperson, she was earmarked as a state witness.

MR VISSER: With you involved with any facet of the investigation of the Ramlakan matter?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes I was Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Who was the investigating officer?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: It was Colonel Andy Taylor.

MR VISSER: And did you assist him or did you perform other tasks?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: We formed independent tasks.

MR VISSER: Did you have anything to do with Zandile?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Are you able to say why she did not testify?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Chairperson when she was needed as a witness they could not find her and consequently she was not used as a witness.

MR VISSER: What according to your knowledge or information was Zandile's movements after the Ramlakan people were arrested and she disappeared as you were asked to testify, what was her movements.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: After her Section 29 statement she was released because she was earmarked as a witness and during that time when she was released and until she was needed in court as a witness and we became aware of it later she was involved with the continuance of all these criminals who were not arrested.  I refer to a total of 54 people who were implicated directly or indirectly.

MR VISSER: With Operation Butterfly?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes with Operation Butterfly.  All of them were not arrested.

MR VISSER: And they were not all charged either?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And what did she do?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: She grouped these people once again.

MR VISSER: For which purpose?