Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-02

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: You see, this whole thing about the branches and so on, I do not have knowledge about that.  It is sort of confusing to me, I only know that Buloshe induna was Mr Mbonambi.

MR LAX: On what basis do you say you were an active IFP supporter, you weren't involved in any branch activities?  What meetings did you go to of the IFP that says you were an active member?
	What structures did you attend of the IFP that says you were an IFP member?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I was only a supporter of the IFP.

MR LAX: Yes, but how could you be an active supporter, if you didn't attend meetings or belonged to any structure or maybe you were an active fighter for the IFP?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, that is not true, that is a mistake.

MR LAX: Then explain to us, how you could be active if you weren't part of any structure or didn't do anything, you can't tell us what you did in order to be active?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I was residing in the IFP area as a civilian there, not necessary that I held a position in the IFP structures.

MR LAX: Yes, but how were you active?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: When we travelled or we go to discuss certain matters, I would be found there.  But with regards to positions, no, I did not hold any position.

MR LAX: No further questions, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: When the attack took place at the Mthetwa establishment, were any shots fired?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Whether there were shots that were fired, are you referring to the attack in Ngonweni?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I am referring to the attack at Mthetwa's house, the one that you went together with the applicant and two other people, and the one which you are sitting in prison for at the moment, were shots fired?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I did hear sound of a gun.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you yourself, shoot?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, I did not shoot.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see anybody shooting?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, I did not see anybody.  But I did hear the sound of a shot.

CHAIRPERSON: One shot?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I think it was once.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think it was shots that you were being shot at, or do you think that shot came from one of the people in your group?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: It could have been us shooting, or one of us shooting, but at the same time, I don't want to dispute the fact that it could have been from, emanating from the other side.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have a firearm?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you use it?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I did not see any need to use the firearm, especially that in rural areas, we don't effectively use firearms, but we rely strongly upon traditional medicines.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions arising Mr Maharaj?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: I have no questions Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAHARAJ

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: No questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Luthuli, that concludes your evidence.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: That was the case for the applicant, Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: Mr Chairman, I am going to lead two witnesses, and I would plead with the Committee members, to proceed until we are finished.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps we could take a five minute adjournment, just to allow the Interpreter to have a little break, or do you think it is necessary, unless she thinks it is not necessary?  Okay, we can proceed then.

MS THABETE: Mr Chairman, I would like to call Mr Shangase please.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Luthuli, you can stand down, and go back to your seat please.  Mr Shangase?  Mr Shangase, what is your full names please?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Konakwakhe Elliot Shangase.

MR LAX: Just spell that for us please.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Konakwakhe.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ms Thabete?

MS THABETE: Mr Shangase, how old are you?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I am 42 years old.

MS THABETE: Are you working?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: No.

MS THABETE: Where do you stay?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: In the area of Ndwedwe, under Chief Cele.

MS THABETE: Is this the place where the deceased were attacked at Mthetwa's house?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Yes, that is the area I am coming from.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that Ngonweni?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: That is correct, Ngonweni is a river.  This is why I am referring to it as under Chief Cele, but Ngonweni is the name of the river.

MS THABETE: Would you say this was an ANC area?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: We are talking now about 1992/1993.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Yes, I am also referring to then.  There never was an organisation from that area, from the beginning of the area, to where the area ends, the whole area belonged to the Chief, to the king, there never was anything known as an organisation, a political organisation so to say.

MS THABETE: Where there any political conflict between any political groups in the area?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: With regards to politics, there never was any struggle or conflict.

MS THABETE: Can you tell the committee members, do you know the applicant, Mr Zulu?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I know him very well.  He is Zakhele Zulu.

MS THABETE: Where do you know him from?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: I know him from his house, from his place.

MS THABETE: In 1993, where was he residing?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Let me go back.  I don't remember the year in which he left, but he left after there was conflict that transpired between us and them, due to the criminal acts that they would launch at all times.

MR LAX: Mr Shangase, if you can just move the microphone.  Move that thing, not that thing, the microphone, move that forward a little bit towards me, yes.  That is fine.  You can carry on talking now.

MS THABETE: Mr Shangase, I will lead you to that, I just wanted to know where was he residing at Madada during 1993?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: At Bolushe, under king Khumalo.

MS THABETE: How far apart is Chief Cele and Chief Khumalo, where he was residing?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: There was a border between, there was a border and next to the road there was a church, and Mthetwa's house and Dlamini's house and then beyond that, there would be Mlula's house and Mteyani's house the other side of the road.  Not necessarily that the area was demarcated by the road.

MS THABETE: Can you give a ground information and tell the Committee members the circumstances which led to the attack at the Mthetwa place?

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: Yes.

MS THABETE: Please do so.

KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE: It started early in 1992.  There were people who have been harassing and torturing the area of Khumalo where they were living.  They started getting out now of the area of Khumalo, infiltrating other areas now after they were done with Khumalo area.
	We resisted that and we did not want to accept that, at no standard, that they should come all the way to attack and harass and torture us.  They were criminals, known as criminals.
	They would rape school children, they were breaking houses.  When you asked them to go and kill a person, that was nothing.  It was a very easy task for them to kill once you asked them.
	When they were coming now towards our area, we felt we should resist.  We had a meeting, discussing this matter.  The first meeting, Mr Luthuli was present.

MS THABETE: Are you referring to Mr Luthuli's father?