Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-10

CHAIRPERSON: I do not want to punish you people.  You have tried to behave but what has been reported you are going to spoil because you are humming, you are making a noise and we cannot allow that.  Please.  We thank all of you who were giving evidence here today and we even see those that were dosed with Savlon and we trust that your wounds would have healed, even though it seems you are going to be a surgeon because you would remove these things of yours with a razor blade.  Let us say that one of the things which we find here, is that so many times it is the youth that was in the forefront of the struggle but we find that even older people were involved and that it was the whole country.  The whole country had actually come apart.  
 We thank you for your contribution towards the liberation of our country so that we are a free country today and we will try and see what we can do about your requests and how we can be of assistance with the bit of authority we have and ask Madiba by letting him know, here are the requests that have been placed before us, how can you be of assistance to these people.  And also, we would pray that you people will find comfort and strength in the bad experiences of the past, because of the change that we are experiencing today is thanks to the contribution of people such as yourself who have made these sacrifices.  So we thank you.  
 We will adjourn for tea until half past.  We would like you all to rise so that the witnesses can leave the hall first.  Order!  Please be quiet.  We would like to ask you all to leave the headphones behind because as I explained to you, they become extremely aggressive when removed from the venue.  Thank you.
 ... end of Tape 2, side B ...

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 2 - 10 SEPTEMBER 1996

CHAIRPERSON: Rev. Finca has a short report to give to me.

ALL FIVE WITNESSES SWORN IN: Your Grace, I wish to report that there is of necessity a change in the order for today.  Yesterday I reported to you that I received a letter from Brigadier Gqozo where he acknowledged our invitation with thanks and he accepted our invitation to attend at 1130 on the 10th September accompanied by his legal representative and he asked that we advise if there is any amendment to the order of proceedings.
We responded of course thanking him and confirming that there is no change.  Your Grace this morning at about 9 o'clock we have received an application by Brigadier Gqozo where he is requesting that the matter be not heard  today and that his testimony be deferred until such time as he is fit to make such contribution to the Commission.  
 Your Grace, the letter, the application is accompanied by an affidavit which is signed by Elizabeth Anneways and I wish to propose on behalf of my colleagues that we deal with the application first before we deal with the next matter and we invite the representative of the applicant to take the podium, if you agree Your Grace.

CHAIRPERSON: We have no other option, I mean every, what I've got to say is that you confirmed Commissioner Bongani Finca, on the basis of the letter that you refer to which you received from Brigadier Gqozo, you confirmed to the media that he was going to be appearing this morning and in the Daily Despatch report on the front page he was still under, well we were still under the impression that he was going to be coming.
 I think we will ask the legal representative if there is something that you want to say, please take the stand.

ADV COLLETT: Your Grace, Honourable Mr Chairman, Commissioners.  I appear as council on behalf of Brigadier Gqozo.  I confirm that yesterday morning Brigadier Gqozo received your invitation to attend today's hearing and as you are well aware, he responded to yourselves and accepted such invitation.  As his legal council, pursuant to his acceptance of your invitation and his willingness to co-operate with the Commission I embarked on consultations with Brigadier Gqozo.  It became abundantly apparent to me during such consultations that Brigadier Gqozo was not in a fit position to make a meaningful contribution during consultation, to enable me to advise him as to his legal rights or to prepare him for today's hearing.  He suffered from a lack of concentration, confusion and extreme fatigue.  
 Yesterday I consulted with Doctor Elizabeth Weiss who is a state psychiatrist, who confirmed that Brigadier Gqozo's behaviour is consistent with the major depressive episode from which he is presently suffering and in this regard, I refer to the affidavit of Doctor Weiss who examined Brigadier Gqozo, which affidavit is annexed to the notice of application served on the Commission earlier this morning.  I place on record that Brigadier Gqozo is presently receiving treatment for his condition under the care and supervision of Doctor Weiss.  Accordingly, it is for these reasons that I humbly request that the contribution of Brigadier Gqozo to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission be deferred until such time as he is in a fit position to do so.
 I shall ensure that the Commission is kept abreast of Brigadier Gqozo's condition.   May I take this opportunity further Your Grace, Mr Chairman, Commissioners, to apologise for any inconvenience caused to this Commission.  I submit that clearly Brigadier Gqozo, in his willingness to co-operate, underestimated the seriousness of his medical condition.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  We are grateful obviously for the fact that you, as his legal representative, was ready to come personally to express the apology for his non-appearance.  You will, as I indicated to you, be aware that it has placed the Commission in some difficulty because it would have been I think better, obviously you are not to blame, nobody is to blame.  I'm not trying to apportion blame, I'm just saying that it would have been better if we had been apprised of this position earlier, before Commissioner Bongani Finca was placed in what is a somewhat invidious position.  
 We do not want to apportion any blame.  We are appreciative of your willingness to come here.  We, because in a sense there is no legal obligation.  We have not subpoenaed him.  We invited him and we were grateful that he was going to come voluntarily but it may be that some of my colleagues have questions, just for clarification.  I hope you would be willing to try and answer if you can do that.  Would you be willing to do that?

ADV COLLETT: In so far as I am able, I am quite willing to answer.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes all right.  Thank you very much.  Are there any questions that you on the panel here may be wanting to put?  Denzil Potgieter?

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  I don't have your name unfortunately.  You have not put it on record so I don't know how to address you.

ADV COLLETT: My name is Advocate Sally Collett.

ADV POTGIETER: Now Advocate Collett, it appears and it's in fact common knowledge that the Brigadier appeared recently on a charge in court.  Now when was that, when did he appear on that particular charge?  When was the last occasion that he appeared on that charge?

ADV COLLETT: The last occasion that he appeared in court on that charge to the best of my recollection was Friday last week.

ADV POTGIETER: That was subsequent to the affidavit that we have been placed in possession of from Doctor Weiss, is that correct?

ADV COLLETT: That is correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Now what was the nature of the proceedings?  Did he simply plead guilty or did he give evidence, did he give evidence in mitigation or what happened?