Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

YASMINE SOOKA: There also were residents who were saying that the police were involved in that attack, do you know anything about that?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: It is so.

YASMINE SOOKA: There are allegations that the police transported the attackers into the open veld that separated the various sections, do you know anything about that?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes I know something about that.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you want to tell us?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: On this day of the 31st of July it was 6:30, my uncle's child says she saw the Caspers dropping off people at the BP Garage and she decided to run away.  She thought that it was members of the ZCC congregation but realised that there is something strange about them and hid on top of the roof.

YASMINE SOOKA: What did she see then?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: She saw these people who were shooting people and even in the yard, in our yard, when they came in and they killed the servant there and the husband.

YASMINE SOOKA: There are also allegations that when the attacks stopped that these people were picked up by the Caspers as well, has that been confirmed by people you know?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Can you repeat your question?

YASMINE SOOKA: From the information we have people are also alleging that when the attackers went back after the attack that the Caspers pick them up to take them back to where they had come from.

NOMUSA NGWANDI: I would not confirm that because on that day there were many Caspers in the Township.
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 NGWANDI

YASMINE SOOKA: And were the policemen from the Caspers, were
they intervening to separate the attackers from the residents or were they participating in what was happening or did they simply stand by and let people be killed?  Who were they helping?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: The policemen were helping those people in the Township.

YASMINE SOOKA: So they were saving them from the attack?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: I say the policemen were working hand-in-hand with these people who were shooting randomly in the Township.

YASMINE SOOKA: I see.  There was also an allegation that the attackers were shouting "bulala, bulala", is that correct, did you hear that?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: No, in my statement I said that since there was this patrolling the comrades were saying wake up men, wake up men, and they said that you must wake up so that you must join the patrol, that's what the comrades meant.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also said in your statement that you were attacked when you tried to find your husband's body, do you want to tell me a little more about that?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: As I have said earlier on that after the shooting I thought that it was quiet, I asked our cousin to take a wheelbarrow and I will take a blanket and we will go and fetch my husband where he saw the place where he was shot and then we saw a Casper brightening our house and then I suggested that we should go to this Casper and tell them that we are being attacked at Ntombeka.  But before we got that there were gunshots and we left everything there, the wheelbarrow and the blanket and we hid in a house that a caravan outside and that's when these men passed by and they TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 NGWANDI
were looking for us, but they never found us.  We only managed to go back home at 2 o'clock because we could not go out.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mrs Ngwandi I did say earlier on that there are some members of the Toasters Gang that are going to apply for amnesty, how do you feel about what would happen if they were to live with you in the community?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: I would forgive them because there is peace now.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much.

MS SEROKE: Nomusa you said that your brother-in-law was in the company of your husband, they were out from work, can you tell us exactly as to how he described the incident to you?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: He told me that when they alighted at the BP Garage they heard the gun sounds, and these were unusual sounds and they suspected those were the young children who were patrolling the place.  And he said he's going to tell them he's not going to join the patrol today because he is tired.  They proceeded home.  When they were about to reach the new houses that were built next to Ntombeka they went through these men and he told them that he won't be patrolling that day because he was tired, he was from work.  My cousin said he joined the people because they were singing Usuthu, Usuthu slogans.  These people who asked them were not comrades.  In order to save his life he joined them and continued the activities of breaking other people's houses until later they discovered that the men from work is back.

MS SEROKE: You can take your time and drink some water.

NOMUSA NGWANDI: That's what he told me when he arrived at
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 NGWANDI
home.

MS SEROKE: In other words they joined these men who were attacking because they thought they were the patrollers?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes that's true.

MS SEROKE: And they heard them sing Usuthu, Usuthu?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes my husband heard them saying Usuthu.

MS SEROKE: And that's when they discovered this was the wrong gang?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes that is true.

MS SEROKE: After your husband told them that he can't patrol it's now that he was one of the patrollers?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: That's correct.

MS SEROKE: That's how they killed him?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes.

MS SEROKE: Did your cousin explain as to how he was killed?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Yes he did explain.  I only discovered when they brought his clothes home, on the front side, on the chest side the clothes were torn and it shows there was a wound on the right side, and his pockets were turned inside-out, which shows as if he has been robbed.

MS SEROKE: Can you tell us more about the name Usuthu?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: This is normally a slogan from the Zulu people.

MS SEROKE: Maybe I can ask you a question, this cousin of yours how did he survive or escape the incident?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: He told me that he joined them and started to sing their slogans and also get involved in the breaking of the windows of other people's houses.

MS SEROKE: From what you heard your husband refused to do what they asked him to do?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: No.
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 NGWANDI

MS SEROKE: I also, as you know that as a Commission we are here to listen and also to see what can be done to help people like you.  As a person who has made a statement what is it that you wish can be done that would satisfy you?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: Can you repeat the question?

MS SEROKE: (tape ends....).... to help people who have been harassed or who have suffered the consequences and yourself as you have given a statement, what is it that you wish?

NOMUSA NGWANDI: The thing that can make me to reconcile is that I would like to see the people, the perpetrators to come before and be identified and known.

MS SEROKE: Thank you very much.  Yours is a painful story and you are one of the people who can be taken as an example of the women who have suffered after having lost their husband or men without a reason.  We would also like to thank you, your spirit to say that they are gone but they have opened us a way to live in peace today.  One of the things that you say, you said you would like to see the perpetrators come before the people and explain.  It is also a wish that the people like them come before us, work together with us.  As you know people reconcile and get to rest if they know exactly what happened.  We also invite all of them, especially the perpetrators to stand up, come up and explain everything as to what happened, and this is what we think can bring peace within the community.  Thank you.