Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I think it appears to be quite clear that the others have abandoned any interest since the previous occasion, they no longer consider they are represented by you, because they have not communicated with you, but my recollection is, and I would like counsel to refresh my memory here, that this man White Mohape might be a fairly relevant witness, might he not.  In those circumstances I would suggest that we take the adjournment early today till two o' clock.  If he has said he may be back here we will be in a position to call him then and dispose of him rather than ask Mr Visser to start with someone and then have to adjourn to interpose.

MR VISSER: Yes, there was also another person, the blind person, Thandi, that has not been recalled.  I am not sure whether she is here, I have not looked around.  That is the only other outstanding issue.  Not that it is terribly important, Mr Chairman, I think by this stage, by this time you know exactly what we are saying, so it is not really necessary for me to call her back to put it to her.

CHAIRPERSON: I do not think that she has been back since then and I can well understand someone with her disability having problems coming to a place like this and, well, not wanting to prejudge anything, I do not think there is anything in her evidence that demands possible cross- examination.

MR VISSER: I am pleased, Mr Chairman, because we are not insensitive to her condition and we will certainly not insist that she comes back.

CHAIRPERSON: No.

MR STANDER: From my side I would just like to tell you that yesterday we tried by means of members of the Commission to get her here.  We sent a vehicle to go and fetch her, but as a result of the fact that the schools opened yesterday, I was informed that she had to take care of children at school.  Where she is today I cannot say, but apparently it is a problem with transport.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I think we can let her, let that matter rest and we will take the adjournment now, be back (...indistinct).

MR STANDER: As it pleases you.
HEARING ADJOURNS

WHITE MOHAPE: (Duly sworn in, states).

MR STANDER: Mr Chairman, Mr White Mohape is already in the witness stand.  May I proceed, Mr Chairman?
	Mr Mohape, what school did you attend when you were still a scholar?

WHITE MOHAPE: Can I (...indistinct) if I can speak English?

MR STANDER: You can speak English if you want to.

WHITE MOHAPE: I was a student at Lereko High School.

MR STANDER: Were you a member of Cosas?

WHITE MOHAPE: I will ask that the interpreter interpret Afrikaans, you know, like translate it into English, because I am not well perfect in Afrikaans.
	Can you repeat your question?

MR STANDER: Were you a member of Cosas?

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes, I was a member of Cosas in Bloemfontein.  I was also elected into the national executive of Cosas, first as their Administrative Secretary as later as their Vice-President of Cosas.

MR STANDER: Tell me, Mr Nelson Ngo, did you know him at all?

WHITE MOHAPE: I knew Mr Ngo at school, also as a fellow student, as a fellow activist, as a member of Cosas.

MR STANDER: Before I proceed, what were the objectives of Cosas?

WHITE MOHAPE: Well, still now, still that time student, Cosas represented students interests.  They dealt with student problems in terms of lack of school books, lack of facilities at school, overcrowding and a better education.  In actual fact, one of the objectives of Cosas was that we were striving for the change of education from apartheid education to a better education that is affordable to all students.

MR STANDER: Were they affiliated by any other political organisation?

WHITE MOHAPE: At that time, yes, Cosas affiliated to United Democratic Front.

MR STANDER: What was the position of Mr Nelson Ngo in this organisation known as Cosas?

WHITE MOHAPE: Well, at that time at school Ngo was one of the executive members of Cosas.  That time he was elected we, in actual fact, one time deliberately elected him as a secretary of Cosas, but he has been in the executive of Cosas.

MR STANDER: Why do you say that you deliberately elected him?  Were you, did you want to nominate him as a member of the executive committee?

WHITE MOHAPE: I think that will be explained later by, you know, activities that took place that involved Ngo himself.

MR STANDER: Later it was discovered or let me state it differently.  Did you discover at one stage that Mr Ngo was not actually a member of your organisation as you thought him to be?

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes, we, there is one thing that I would want to explain about Ngo.  Ngo was a well-known student amongst, you know, amongst the community of students and, as I said, he was one of the executive members, he was, you know, in a position of influence, but then we realised, you know, out of all the work that he was doing in Cosas, that there were certain things that were wrong that we could pick up from his own behaviour and his own activities and one of those was when we started to realise that some of our documentation was disappearing and there are instances, and I will explain those instances, where documents of Cosas disappeared and, also, where new members, you know, students who joined Cosas, were picked up by the security branch and one other phenomenon was that Ngo was starting to live, you know, another life, you know, like, it is clear for us.  We knew that Ngo was from the outskirts of Bloemfontein and as such we know when you talk about the outskirts of Bloemfontein, you are talking about this, you know, small dorpies, you know, where, in terms of living standards, people cannot really live the way, you know, people will live in the big cities like Bloemfontein, but, you know, with Ngo starting to wear expensive clothes, when we will argue that maybe he is wearing that because the brother or the cousin, wherever in Bloemfontein he could buy that, but, you know, those were some of the things, but I think I will put them into detail.

MR STANDER: What happened then, after you realised that he was not such a trustworthy member of the executive committee?