Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-20

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: If I remember well I think I last said we were at Mfayela and coming back, after he had identified the house of, identified the taxi owner's house and I was explaining about the distance as to who should be hit and after that we should confiscate some cars and burn the people.  We were talking about the ammunition in the house and about the Ntelezi. I think that is what I last said, I'm not sure.
"At the time when we were in the house we had two AK's, the one that I had in my possession and the one that was in Mfayela's son's possession and who brought it to the house.  He left to go fetch the R1.  You see they don't keep such guns in the house.  These guns that we used to kill people were always hidden outside the house.  The guns that were there at the time were two AK's, one R1 and one 9mm 9 shot, not a long one but 9 shot.  The one that would have been used to kill the taxi driver and the 9 long that I had in my possession, the one that I said I got it from the station commander and that I did not know his name but now I know he is Hlengwa although he said to me in prison I must not divulge his name.
	At the time as I'd already explained there was a plastic bag full of ammunition and we started loading this ammunition in the guns and Simo gave us socks to put on our hands and hand gloves so that our fingerprints won't remain on the cartridges.  In case we shoot and the cartridges are lying around, it should not be associated with us in any way because police from Ndwedwe were not longer trusted, they were looked at as hit squad because they were killing around and terrorising around.   
	But one thing painful I knew was that the people of Mokomo depended on the stability and little did they know that this was the third force.  They would pretend as if they were patrolling and yet they have hidden agendas that they would like to fulfil.  People did not know about this.  You see when you don't know you are as good as not seeing or blind.  
	At that time we loaded our guns and I had a 9 in my possession, the very one that I had and Mdu took AK and Zwelaki Mbambo took another AK as well and Tendi Dungweni took the 9 shot that I referred to and Simbishisi took the R1 that I referred to as well.  This R1 was known very well by Ntindi and Dungweni and Mdu and Zwelaki.  
	As soon as you shoot using it, it was an automatic one, so that it will not discharge a cartridge.  You have to change it and cock it and it will only be then that it will discharge, just like 303.  That is how it operated.  
	Then I took my gun because Sishi had that one and I took my 9 one and gave it to him and I took, in other words we exchanged guns.  They could not use that gun and I was the only one who was well conversant with the use of that particular gun.  They were not given automatics.  I think these whites did not trust themselves, although those Boers who were so filthy did not trust themselves.  I know ANC wants so much information and I'm prepared to divulge that much.  We left the house and Simo was already waiting for us with a bucket just outside the house.  
	You see right next to Mfayela's house there was a caravan that was parked there and there was an open space.  There are just ordinary houses, one will not think that the owner is the parliament member.  That open space that is where the Cressida was parked and he reversed the Cressida a bit, Mfayela himself and stood behind.  In other words the car turned and was parked facing the opposite direction.  This is how you go to Mfayela's house.  On the left it was an open space and that's where he turned the car facing it to the opposite direction.  There was a street going upwards, something like a T-junction.  You see this is how I'm demonstrating it.  There was no any other road ahead, it was a T-junction and you either turn left or right.  
	Simo was standing there with a bucket behind the car and we were sprinkled, we were told to stir this Ntelezi inside the bucket using firearms, the back of the firearms.  In other words, dumping the guns in the Ntelezi and we were told to leave and not to look at the back, we should just go forward.  I knew very well that Ntelezi sometimes is mixed with pieces of people's flesh or flesh and I had my own reservations inasfar as what we were doing.  We therefore left the place.  The Cressida left and charged forward instead of going backwards and it turned a bit and left to the right-hand road and went towards the left.  And ...[indistinct] us we should lie down and kill the person there.  Simbisishi knew the person very well, the taxi owner.  
	Simbisishi knew the taxi owner very much because his house was not too far away from where the taxi owner's house was and where the Lindilani people were harboured as well, he knew very well.  That place was used as a place of cover for such people who would be in hiding.  
	As you approach the taxi owner's house you would have to walk upward and leave the other road which is turning, off-ramping from the main road and you go upward and you pass this off-ramp.  We alighted from the car and now joined the other route which was leading us to the taxi owner's house.  
	Another thing that I may say which I believe I should say is:  we were using camouflage uniform or clothing, camouflage clothing, yes and Simbi had that on.  
	We stopped there right on the road leading to the taxi owner's house.  It was towards dusk.  We saw another kombi approaching and Simbi said: 'Yes, this is the car, this is his very own car.'  We emerged immediately and pointed the guns towards the kombi.  
	So there were two.  The first one in front was an E20 and the guy surrendered and lifted up his hands and we approached the vehicle and opened the door and gave the gun to Simbi.  I took my 9 and put it in my pocket and I said: 'Leave, we are in a rush, we want to go to Nduzuma.  If he remembers very well, the taxi driver that is, he will recall my words.  
	There was another person, a passenger inside, he was resisting all this and the other boys wanted to assault him and I said no, they should wait a bit.  I said to him: 'Stop resisting because you will be in danger in no time'.  I told him that: 'We can leave you or drop you at your house'.  And Simbi said: 'This is the one that - this is not the one that we are looking for'.  This is why we did not even shoot because he was not there.  Simbi realised that this is not the person we are looking for because he knew the person very well.  
	Then we discovered that this is not the person we are after.  I said to the person: 'Well shift, give us some room.  If you wish we could drop you at that house'.  And he said: 'How do you know that house'?  I said: 'I know that house, we could drop you if you wish but if you want you can accompany us to Nduzuma and we will bring you back'.  
	I was winding away time because I knew very well that this is not the person we are looking for or after.  He seemed a bit delirious or confused and he resisted, he said he did not want to come along with us.  
	The old man's house was not too far away from us.  I drove the kombi myself, the one that was in front the first one, the E20 one.  We got inside, we drove right into the premises and turned around a bit or made a u-turn and right next to the house which had ...[end of tape] said to the others they should get outside the car.  He was not too sure why I was saying that because we already had a car. He seemed a bit confused as to why we were not leaving because we already had the car whilst we were whiling away time waiting for the taxi owner to arrive.  
	As the other one was knocking at the door, Ntini fired.  I heard him screaming, the driver that is, the other one was just a boy and he said: 'Father open the door, please open the door', shouting, saying that.  And he shot twice.  I asked him: 'Why are you shooting because we are not shooting these people'?  He answered back and said: 'This one is troublesome and resisting all the instructions'.  I said to him: 'Please don't shoot because this will call for attention, people will be aware of what's happening, neighbours that is'.  
	We saw the next kombi approaching, the second one that is, and we went down, driving down and I parked on the side.  The other kombi stopped.  Then Simbi said: 'This is the target, this is the person we are looking for, this is the very one who is inside the other car'. 
	Dongweni was in front and alighted from the vehicle.  I think the other one wanted to ask: 'Where are you going at this time'?, wanting to know what's happening because he saw the car approaching the gate and yet it was supposed to have been parked because it was after hours.  He shot him here, right on the head using the 9mm.  I was a bit terrified and I got outside of the vehicle and I saw a woman who was with the taxi owner and said something that I did not hear and said: 'I'm beginning to be powerless'.  He almost shot the women and I said: 'No, don't shoot the woman'.  I said to the woman: 'Get off the vehicle'. 
	We thought we should go back to the other car which was already facing the exit.  As I tried to reverse the kombi overturned.  Mdu was given me the directions as I was reversing the kombi.  Before I knew it the kombi overturned.  I kicked the windscreen and exited.
	The other kombi had its lights on and I could see that I had a chance to reach the vehicle, the E20 and drive off with it but we left that alone and decided to walk away by foot.  
	I was not too sure if that was a whistle or a trumpet that was being blown in that house but there was some noise that we heard, sounding something like a trumpet and some gunshots as well we heard but we could not see as to who was being shot at.  There was a person already who had gone to Mfayela to report that somebody had been shot already at close range and he rushed us to our houses and he got rid of us immediately from the vicinity.  We went back to our house.  He dropped us there and he went back.
	The following day the white bakkie came again. When I got to Mfayela's house, - I think the kombi I want to talk about now was red, and there was another one, a white one.  There were people from Mpumalanga and Mkukuza and Dosiana.  There is a mistake there on the statement, they say Hosiana, it Mkukuza, people coming from Mkukuza not Hosiana.  So that is an error that's being reflected in the statement.  
	When I got there I realised that there are already police and everything has been arranged and people should be hit or assaulted at night.  The person I'm referring to I did make mention of in the statement although he does not appear in my application.
	And even at the time Sister Sheila was investigating this I told her about it but I am so sure, dead sure that at Somkomo there was a person we shot in the street.  He was just walking on the street and we shot the person.  We were driving along the streets of Somkomo when we shot that particular person, that I'm dead sure of.  The cartridges that might have been recovered from the person was the shotgun ..."
...[intervention]