Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:  Yes, I did.  He went to the hospital in August.  He remained there.  Then in mid-September he was discharged.  Then he stayed for only two weeks at home.  Thereafter he got sick.  We took him back to the hospital.  They took him to King Edward Hospital.  We went to see him on a Monday.  Then we came back with him because he was discharged.  When we got home on Monday he couldn't sleep because his whole body was aching.  I took him again to Edendale Hospital.  That was on a Monday.  He remained there until Thursday.  That's when he died on Thursday.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's go back to the death certificate.  Did they give any cause for his death, or did they say what caused his death?

WITNESS:   In the death certificate they said from Vulindlela - they made a mistake because they said he had died of cancer and pneumonia, and yet it wasn't like that.  Part of his liver was left at home.  Now, how can he die of cancer when part of his liver was left at home, because I picked it up there.

MRS GCABASHE: What is it that you picked up?

WITNESS:   When we went to Vulindlela the death certificate was written that he had died as a result of cancer and pneumonia.  That wasn't so.  Maybe it was cancer, because part of his liver was picked up from the floor at home at the time.  That is a piece of liver.  Now when I got the death certificate they said he had died of cancer and pneumonia.  I do have the death certificate with me, because it wasn't like that.  At the time when he went to the hospital I phoned the police at Plessis.  When the police came they asked who had shot him.  I told them that I couldn't see the people because they just knocked and it was dark.  He couldn't even see them, because when he opened the door that's when they shot him, so we could not identify them.  But what I know is that before my husband got injured they came to attack us.  They were members of the Inkatha.  They told us that they had come to look for children who had joined the UDF organisation.  There's only one I could identify amongst those people.  That was Jerome Mncwabe.  I knew him because I heard his voice, because I knew him, he was our councillor and we had no problem with him.  So he said the children ought to be assaulted.  They took a sjambok and told my husband to assault my son so as for them to see that he didn't agree with what they were doing.  Then they said we shouldn't go out of the house.  We accepted it and my husband did assault my son.

MRS GCABASHE: At that time when your children were no longer staying at home where were they?

WITNESS:   I don't know where they went because they just chose to go away, because they felt that staying at home was quite  uncomfortable because the police kept on harassing them.  At that time the children belonged to a youth organisation at Siqongweni.  They were attending school with Sipho Gabela.  That's why they chose to go away, but still even then they came back to shoot the father of my children.  He was a Christian, he didn't belong to any organisation.

MRS GCABASHE: As you say you were not satisfied about what was written on the death certificate as the cause of death, is there anything that you did to try and show that you were not satisfied?  Did you ever investigate as to what the cause of death was?

WITNESS:   I believe that he died as a result of the gunshot, because he was shot in the liver.  I believe that he died from the gunshot.  That even disturbed me.  After having taken the statement they sent another Indian guy.  Then when this Indian guy came they said he has come to take photos and will come back with the results, but he never showed up thereafter.  The bullet that I said was in the jacket pocket they came back and took it.  They said they wanted it, they wanted to conduct a search.  I gave it to the police and they went away with it.  The results as to what had happened nobody told me.  That was the end.  And I even gave up because my husband had died and I felt it wasn't going to help any more.  Now I decided that I should come forth and talk this matter over.  I don't want anybody to get arrested because this won't help, but I want to be helped.  I want God to help us, those who are living, to come to terms with all this to live peacefully.

MRS GCABASHE: Those two sons, where are they now, those who were harassed?

WITNESS:   Bheki, whom they said was a comrade, died last year on the 4th of June.  He was shot in Johannesburg.  We don't know who shot him.

MRS GCABASHE: Was there any investigation that was conducted as to why he was shot?

WITNESS:   I just left everything as it was because I felt I was at my wit's end.  I just couldn't do anything any more.  The other one just went to Johannesburg.  He never came back.  He is still alive.

MRS GCABASHE: How are you?  How do you survive?  What are your means of living?  Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working, I am just at home.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you qualify for pension?

WITNESS:   No, I don't think so because I was born in 1942.  I tried, but they told me that I don't qualify.

MRS GCABASHE: We do sympathise with you.  Have you ever tried looking for a job?

WITNESS:   I used to sell vases, I was a hawker, but I got involved in a car accident.  That was a kombi.  We were from a funeral.  Thereafter I couldn't carry anything on my head, I would get dizzy spells, so I stopped worked.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you very much, Mrs Ngcobo, for having related your story and what happened to your family.  We really do sympathise with you.  We thank you very much for having come here before this Commission.  I shall hand back to the Chairman of our Commission.

MRS GCABASHE: I also thank you, Mrs Ngcobo.  When I got here you were already relating your story, but the least that I got gives me a picture of the harassment, the trauma that you went through.  Archbishop Tutu usually tell us that we, as the people of South Africa, haven't yet understood or got to terms with the way that women have been harassed in the past when we were fighting for freedom.  In the true sense of the word the Commission would have neglected to do its job because it does not actually reveal the way in which the women went through hardship in fighting for freedom.  We must not forget that.  We must just not overlook it.  You are one of the people who keep us on our toes, always thinking of the hardships that women went through.  I don't know whether you have any questions.  Maybe there is something that you would like to ask.  Are there any questions from the Commissioners?

MRS GCABASHE: We thank you, Mrs Ngcobo.  There are very few people who have been harassed in the manner that you have been.  Your whole life gives a picture of a family that has been traumatised.  It wasn't easy for a parent to sacrifice his children or her children to be harassed.  But what I want to get from you, Mrs Ngcobo, can you just give us a brief explanation as to how this altered or changed your life.  Is there anything that changed in your life when this happened to your family, whether to your children or to yourself personally?  We just wish to know.

WITNESS:   It's true I was traumatised.  I just told myself that when I was staying alone now, my children had gone away, I would take my child that was the youngest, I would sleep on top of the bed and put a sponge under the bed, so that the youngest would sleep under the bed so that he or she would relate to others what had happened to me if I happened to die.

MRS GCABASHE: I can see now that you are very emotional.  We do sympathise with you.  Is there anything that still troubles you in your life during the time of harassment that you would like to talk about at this present moment?