Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — UNKNOWN

WITNESS: So Kinikini arrived at my house with his wife and two daughters and two other men.  They came into my yard.  They were in a rush.  They were using one of their business cars.  It was a black station wagon.  He was a Counsellor at that time.  
He was not a Mayor.  They came through the kitchen door.  He was talking.  He was saying, "We attack anyone even during the day."  My whole house was locked and I was so scared, only to find out there were Rovers outside, half a dozen of them outside.  They were patrolling around my house and just beating up whoever is trying to get close to my house at No 1, Nojola.  If you were just passing by and were not even aware what was happening at my house you would be beaten up by these people.  I did not even have arms with me so I decided to take a knobkierie.  I used the small window in the kitchen.  While they were busy knocking, I knocked the door and the window.  We can tell the truth and I am going to tell the truth as we speak now.  One of those daughters was cut by one of the glasses on her arm.  She still has that scar.  So I ran.  I got out of one of the windows and then I escaped.  These Rovers did not do anything to me.  I could see them properly now what they were doing.  I left and I ran to No 88.  That is how I escaped.  During the day there were people from Stoto who came to tell me that their house has been vandalised.  When they saw my house was vandalised they could not even tell me their story now.  Because of what happened I took my bedroom suite and hid it next door.
Now when we were going to Kwanobuhle I had my four room, No 1 Nogoko Street.  My family, people like my brother's aunts were staying next door at No 2.  I took out my bedroom suite from No 1.  I wanted the police to investigate so that if the lawyers can be allowed to come back and just do so freely.  I put my bedroom suite at No 3.  I was guarded and I knew that I was under police eyes.  If you are under such an eye, you are very sensitive.  When I borrowed Fiksi's van he said to me, "If you get to Ngoli still alive you will be very lucky."  It shows how sensitive you become, how radicalised you have become in many aspects of your life because of harassment.  I knew that.  I even had a certain solution in some instances.  That is how I survived and that is how I am here today.  The people who are my pillars are the people in this hall as we speak.
Now going on.  The Council used to switch off the electricity of a certain area so that during that time certain people with balaclavas would come when it is dark and you would not even be able to see them.  You would have to hide and then you would be given certain reports later.  On 5 December 1984, my goods were still at No 3.  The police did not even care about investigating the vandalising of our homes.  
On 5 December, I am not sure of the time, I was not at home, my brother, Lesley Kobese was sleeping in my bed at No 3.  No 3 was bombed by a firebomb and there was fire again.  My house at the time was just walls.  I was not in at that night and my brother was now hit by that bomb while sleeping next door at No 3.  My brother died after five days at the Livingstone Hospital.
When this bomb was fired there were people inside.  The policemen took Lesley and he was badly burnt.  His body was swollen almost two times his normal size.  They took him with a van.  They did not put him in an ambulance.  That was the last time the family knew where they were taking him.  They did not even know whether he was getting treatment or not.  This is a picture of his body, the one that I have here.  This is his face.  These are his legs and these are his arms.  I am still going to use it again.
When this chaos of this bomb happened, Zolile Kobese was there in the house.  During this whole chaos there was gas in the house which I could still smell, but I could not identify that gas.  I am sure it was in that bomb also.  He broke one of the windows and his left hand side was damaged, one of his hands was damaged.  
He was taken to hospital.  He saw Gerwel who was one of the Special Branch.  He was standing next to him.  Gerwel was one of the top prosecutors.  I am sure he has now been promoted but at the time he was one of the security branches.  He was starting to harass Zolile, who was in a hospital bed.  As the result Zolile had to hide.  He ran away from the hospital because he wanted to hide.  He was afraid of being killed.  Even today his arm is still damaged.  It still does not work.
A man who had visited Lesley had also been suffocated by this gas.  My mother who is here, I am with her, and my aunt, Violet, who has now passed on, they also had to be taken to the doctor for shock.  We prepared for the funeral of Lesley.  Le Grange, he was the Minister of Police, he issued a banning order of the things we are used to.  I am not going to mention it, we are used to these things.  I was not used to the fact that if we are in a vigil, that we are supposed to take this body into a cemetery.  This body had been burnt, but people wanted to see how much he had been burnt.
(?) Please, let me interrupt you.  Was there a postmortem done on Lesley?

WITNESS: Yes, there was, but we did not get the report.  We were never given a report of the direct cause.
(?) Were you there when the report was done?

WITNESS: No, we were not there.  The family was a soft target to the police.  Whoever was a Kobese was a target for the police.  It was very difficult for us to follow up anything.  I only saw Lesley Kobese once at Livingstone Hospital because I disguised myself that is how I could do it.
When I went to Johannesburg I was with Thobile Mhlahlo who is now the MEC of Public Works here in front of us.  He told me, just when we were close to Transvaal, the meeting has been cancelled.  The caucus has been postponed and it will be called again.  I said to him, "Please tell me something", after a minute of silence, "Has Lesley Kobese died?"
The day of the burial of my brother Lesley we had a vigil as usual.  I slept at around 02h00 because it was very full there.  There were people from Uitenhage and from other towns.  Lesley was a disciplined breadwinner of that family and he was very famous that is why it was so full on that day.  I slept at No. 8, No-Joe Skweyiya, Nojomba.  While I was sleeping I was suffocated by tear-gas only to find out that this teargas that I am sniffing at No 8, it originated from my own house, from the house where the vigil was.  
When I got out there were policemen all over and there were people who had guns.  I could not even see this house even though it was not far from me.  Policemen were kneeling shooting everyone, even small babies.  They dropped down the ceiling.  They pealed the tiles on the floor.  They spilled all the food that was there, scones, because we were waiting for people from different places and we bought so much food.  These policemen in the yard where the vigil was held kicked and killed one of the members of the Youth Congress, Bantom.  They took me to Walmer Police Station.
(?) Do you know any of the policemen who took you?