Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-26

PETER JOHN STOREY: On Sunday the 15th of January, Mr Ayob went to see Mrs Mandela and was again unsuccessful in obtaining the release of the youths.  We were very, very frustrated by this time, and we were willing to try any method we could - any avenue, so that afternoon the Reverend Sizwe Mbabane and Mr John Reece and myself went to see Doctor Nthatho Motlana, who had just come back from Lusaka and had discussed this matter with ANC leadership there.
 Doctor Motlana first of all said he was extremely glad I had not gone to the home the day before.  He confirmed to me that when he had first visited Mrs Mandela, she had not given access to the youths, and he agreed that he would have one more attempt and try later in that day.  Then a little later in the day I received a message from Mr John Reece, which had come via Mrs Albertina Sisulu who he had seen the previous evening, and the message was to the Reverend Paul Verryn that he must stay out of Soweto because his life was definitely in danger.
 Doctor Motlana visited - according to him - his report to me, he visited Mrs Mandela at around 5 p.m. on that Sunday the 15th and spoke - he said - extremely strongly to her.  I had to make a decision, and I would want this Commission to understand that one of the many dilemmas related to Mr Verryn's safety: on the one hand, he had been subjected to vicious allegations about his character, and I did not wish to take any steps which would give the slightest hint to the public, to the media, or to anybody else that I had any doubt about his integrity.  
 And so I didn't want to withdraw him from Soweto, I didn't want to take him out of that house, I wanted to leave him where he was so he could get on with his job, and it would be clear that his church had confidence in him.  And at this point - having received a warning now from Mrs Sisulu, whom we respected very, very deeply - I had no option, and I ordered him out. And we took him out of Soweto and placed him on a sort of leave for the time being.  Then a little later in that day I was again asked to prepare accommodation for the youths because they were coming out. That was a phone call from Fink Haysom.  Then in the evening Xoliswa, Jerry Richardson, and three youths were in fact brought to Ismail Ayob. Ayob was told that before they could be handed over, there were certain matters to discuss and conditions.  
 He replied that his instructions were that they must be released unconditionally, and there was a fierce disagreement apparently, and they left with the children still in their custody.  On Monday the 16th of January, sometime in the morning, they were handed to Doctor Motlana and they wanted to go to the mission house, but he refused.  
 He then - through Mr John Reece at 3.30 in the afternoon, I got a call that Doctor Motlana was taking the youths to the offices of Krish Naidoo in Johannesburg. He said:quote: "There are four of them and one seems high on drugs" unquote.   I then spent a little while getting hold of two community leaders because I wanted credible community leaders to be present when these youths were handed over.
 And Stuart Ngwenya and Maths Ramagope arrived. Then I went to Krish Naidoo's office and I found four people.  There was Gabriel Mekgwe (Pelo), there was Thabiso Mono, there was Katiza  Cebekhulu, and then there was an older man of about, in my judgement, 30 who gave me his name as Manwa Maseko.  He was later identified by the youths, once they were out of earshot of him, as Jerry Richardson, so I realised that he must be some form of escort and not one of the youths themselves.
 There was a long discussion in the office. Mr Krish Naidoo indicated that these kids just want to lay allegations about Paul Verryn. And I replied that I would certainly listen to any allegations very, very carefully, but that I would also be having questions I would want to ask them about the circumstances of how they left the mission house, and who did it and why.
 Then Mr Naidoo indicated they wanted to get clothes at the mission house, and I indicated that that could happen. Somebody could fetch the clothes for them.  I then in the meantime had heard that this promised community meeting at last was taking place that night at a secret venue, and it seemed to me fortuitous that these events had coincided.  And I indicated to the youths that this meeting was about to take place that evening, and that it was to address the whole issue of how they had left the mission house and why, and whether there were true allegations against Reverend Verryn, and all the other things surrounding this crisis, and, therefore, would they be willing to come to that meeting?
 Two of them that is, Pelo and Thabiso agreed, they said they'd be happy to go to the meeting but Katiza  - who I think is the one that earlier Dr Motlana had suggested might be high on drugs, was extremely upset throughout the time that we were in that room together.  He couldn't sit still, he was very emotional, he was talking to himself quite a lot, and he refused the invitation to go to the meeting, and said he would not return to Soweto because he was afraid.
 Krish Naidoo then offered to look after Katiza  and said: "Can I take you into my care", and he agreed to that.  So at about 5.15 after a fairly tense hour or so in that office, I left with Gabriel (Pelo) and Thabiso, and we walked a block or so up to the Central Methodist Mission where the two civic leaders were waiting.  The man who later I discovered was Jerry Richardson followed us and then peeled off and went his way.  And it was clear that, when he had finally left the scene, there was a little bit more relaxation on the part of these two.
 In the meantime I had instructed Reverend Paul Verryn that he was not to communicate in any way with the released youths until after the community meeting had had a chance to question them.  So we got them some food, and then I drove them - and it was one of those things that happened in those days, you went to one place and they told you another place and you went to another place and they told you another place, and we finally ended up at the Catholic Hall in Dobsonville.
 In the car the two of them volunteered the following information: they never wanted to go back to the Mandela house, that they were badly beaten and the phrase that sticks with me is the phrase: "Our eyes could not see for a week".  They were worried about Stompie, and they had been told to accuse Paul Verryn or be killed.  They were also assaulted by Mrs Mandela herself and their companion earlier they revealed to me was Jerry, who they said is the worst of them all.
 Then we got to the meeting, which finally started at about 7.30 in Dobsonville. There were some significant church persons there, Father Lafont, a Catholic priest, Reverend Mbande of the Church of the Province, Reverend Bangula, a Methodist Minister, Mr Verryn was present, as was I.  There were about 150 people there representing every civic movement and trade union around at the time.
 And there were also some people who had been invited to come from Temahole, where Stompie originated from, and from Ikageng, where I think Thabiso and Pelo came from - their civics were represented - and the Crisis Committee was there.  There were also present at that meeting, 9 or 10 young people who had lived in the mission house at Orlando West and had not been abducted.
 The meeting was opened in prayer, and Mr Bangula then spoke on behalf of the Methodist Church and its concern, and how the church was concerned and involved in this situation.  I want to say if I may - just to put a little context to this - I was profoundly impressed by the atmosphere in this meeting. I didn't know what to expect and some community meetings can be very emotional.  There was a sombreness about this meeting, there was a gravitas about it, and one had the sense that the people present knew they were dealing with a profoundly hurtful, painful situation, and they conducted themselves - seeing that it was a kind of enquiry not unlike this one - they conducted themselves, I think, with immense dignity and concern to discover the truth.
 First of all, the residents of the mission house had a statement which they had all signed, and somebody by the name of Celo read that statement and gave an indication of how the abduction had taken place, who had come, who had been abducted - he himself had been apparently taken and then put back on the grounds that he was quote: "politically reliable" unquote. He felt that he'd had a narrow escape.
 And then Pelo and Thabiso were asked to tell their stories, and in summary what they said was, they had been abducted against their will, they'd been taken to Mrs Mandela's house, they had been beaten first by her, then by other members of the football team.  While they were giving evidence, Krish Naidoo arrived with Katiza,  accompanied by a member of the football team, and I have never seen such terror on people's faces.  If the football team knew where this meeting was taking place, should the meeting continue at all or were we all in fact in danger because they were heavily armed?
 And there was a debate for a while about whether the meeting could take place or continue but it was finally decided to continue but Mr Naidoo was ... [Tape ends]