Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-12

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  I appreciate that.  The question was very vague.  That last point I want to make is that in your longer submission on page eight we've been trying to understand the nature of business, the nature of banking, the commercial sector.
 We think we have a few clues, but there are lots of blind spots and we're trying to learn, because we have different points of view expressed before this Commission.
 When you in 6.2.2 talk about the prohibition in the group areas act against the employment of any Black person in the position of supervisor or above and you give the reasons why there were so few Black people employed by the bank.
 On the bases of other comments that you have made and you talk about only in 1983 there seems to be a concern that the so unrepresentative and the need for additional staffing, (indistinct) and so on;  do I take it then that what you're really saying is not that you woke up one morning and said, Oh my God, we've got too few Black people here.  We really need more, but a recognition that the whole South African way of life was such that Blacks were the last in the queen.
 Apart from the laws, there was a natural tendency, it seems to me from listening to a number of business presentations;  that out of almost self-interest capital did enter a new approach which said all of South Africa have a right to work in our Industry and therefor the door should be open.
 How did that come about?

MR TAKI: It was easy enough to see what happened.  There was a concern.  If you say what drove the concern in many individuals who participated in that process;  that's a much more difficult and I'm not a sociologist or a political theorist, but I would suspect that it was a combination of a number of things and the factor is that the 1970's saw a very sharp deterioration in the economic condition of South Africa.
 I don't think there's any doubt that the 1976 unrest triggered a pretty high level of concern in - amongst business manager and bank managers in particular.  That combination of the rising tension together with the economic decline, you come through in the 1980's.
 In the 1980's I don't think that there is much doubt at all that the activity of the organisations like the Sullivan - the participants in the Sullivan Code, the activities of the Urban Foundation, unquestionably had an impact on managerial thinking.
 When they then looked around it was a combination of a number of things.  It was, guys, we're running out of White people to run our banks for us.  We've got a significantly increasing number of Black clients and those Black clients need to be served by people who can actually talk to them in the same language.
 Apart from that there were distribution of income.  You were already going over 40 percent of the total national income was being earned by the Black community and chaps, the harsh reality of it is that if we think that we can just carry on doing business with White staff serving White clients, we're coming to an end.
 I think it was a combination of all of those factors and I don't think that you can really sort of sort it out and say it was ten percent of this and 25 percent of that.

DR BORAINE: Can I just and this is not a question or a comment;  it's an apology.  Unfortunately I have to at another very important meeting I have to go to.  So, if you'll excuse me.  I'm quite sure my colleagues have lots of other questions they want to put to you and my apologies to the audience as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Dr Boraine.  I'm looking around and I don't see any nodding heads for more questions.  Mr Taki, thank you very very much.
 Let me thank you for your very open, wise comments here today on behalf of yourself and your industry and I want to thank all your colleagues for coming here today and showing solidarity with yourself and also as you said for the work the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is doing. 
 Thank you very much indeed.

MR TAKI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Browne, I'm giving you 15 minutes at the maximum and similarly with Mr Cassim.  Thank you very much.