Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

MS FALATI: I participated in a way because I sang so as to drown the voices of those who were being brutally assaulted.

MR SEMENYA: You are the only one who did not physically assault any of these boys?

MS FALATI: I did not physically assault any of these boys.

MR SEMENYA: And you are the only one?

MS FALATI: I'm not the only one, even Nonxlanla ...[indistinct]  She knows who I'm referring to, she knows everybody - she and the attorneys deny and even I myself she's denying the fact that she knows me.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

MR SEMENYA: In your evidence earlier you're saying that it was not Morgan who drove the car to fetch the boys from the Manse?

MS FALATI: Pardon?

MR SEMENYA: When you testified earlier today you said it was not Morgan who drove the car or the bus to go and collect ...[intervention]

MR KUNY: Mr Chairperson, that's not my understanding of the evidence, in fact my understanding of the evidence is that she specifically stated that John Morgan had gone to fetch the boys.

MR SEMENYA: In any case you just said it was another driver, I recall this distinctly.

MS FALATI: Which driver?

MR SEMENYA: ...[inaudible] witness and ...[intervention]

MR KUNY: If I may just make my objection, I think my learned friend has misunderstood the evidence.  She said that after they had fetch Katiza that they then went to Doctor Asvat' surgery and at that stage John Morgan - a different driver had come and taken them to Doctor Asvat' surgery but her evidence as far as I'm concerned is clear that John Morgan had in fact gone with them to fetch the boys.  If my learned friend would like to see my notes he's welcome.

MR SEMENYA: Who collected the boys from the Manse, who was the driver?

MS FALATI: The driver was John Morgan.

MR SEMENYA: Who was the driver to Doctor Asvat?

MS FALATI: It was somebody else, a tall guy from Orlando West - it was a different person, not John Morgan.

MR SEMENYA: According to you John Morgan has never went to Doctor Asvat' surgery.

MS FALATI: No, not that day, not on the 28th.  We are talking here about the 28th, the beating of the boys was on the 28th, the fetching of the boys was on the 28th, the 28th was when we came from Victor Verster, that was the 28th.  I'm talking about that day which was confused as cover-ups - saying 29, 29 everywhere.  It was the 28th, you can go to the airport and go to Victor Verster and you will see she was there on the 28th - that was the 28th I'm talking about, not the confusion of the cover-ups.

MR SEMENYA: Chairperson, would it be a convenient time to take the lunch adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon?

MR SEMENYA: Would it be a convenient time to take the lunch adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, it looks like in fact the lunch has arrived.  I was told that lunch is at 13H30 but I can see it has arrived and it seem to me that - I think we should maybe say yes, let's break and return at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: Order then.  Mr Semenya?

MR SEMENYA: Ma'am, can I take you back to some aspect of your statement ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I think we're going to have a bit of a problem with - can you just try to move them a little further away from - thank you very much.

MR SEMENYA: You say in your statement that you understood that Madondo was beaten up because of Mrs Mandela.

MS FALATI: I beg your pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please just repeat your question.

MS FALATI: I've got a problem with my headset.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you hear?
COMMITTEE HAS PROBLEMS WITH HEADPHONES

MR SEMENYA: Your statement says you heard that Madondo was beaten up at the instance of Mrs Madikizela Mandela.

MS FALATI: Can you come again please?

MR SEMENYA: Your statement records that Madondo was beaten up at the instance of Mrs Mandela.

MS FALATI: Madondo was?

MR SEMENYA: Beaten up, did you say that?

MS FALATI: That he was beaten up?

MR SEMENYA: Did you say Madondo was beaten because of Mrs Mandela?

MS FALATI: Beaten up when?

MR SEMENYA: Do you know if Madondo was beaten up?

MS FALATI: I know when he was beaten up by Mrs Mandela at Mrs Mandela - I'm talking about at the ...[indistinct] house when I found him laying in this position flat on his stomach.  When I asked him

<UNKNOWN>: "Why are you sleeping right here in the sun", he couldn't answer me, he was moaning ...[indistinct]  I asked these other boys, they told me that he was beaten up by Mrs Mandela because he didn't go for the mission which he was supposed to take.  When I asked at a later stage which mission he was supposed to go to Dukile's house - go for this ...[indistinct] Dukile's son.  That was the reason why he was beaten - he never went there.

MR SEMENYA: Were you present when Madondo was beaten?

MS FALATI: I was not present when Madondo was beaten but I could see from his bruises that he was beaten up.

MR SEMENYA: Who told you that he was beaten up?

MS FALATI: The boys there, there were so many boys - that is the Mandela Football Club who were there at the office at Commerce House.

MR SEMENYA: Who of the boys told you that?

MS FALATI: They answered that he had been beaten up by "Mamma".

MR SEMENYA: You're not able to give us a name?

MS FALATI: Can I please ask you a question?

CHAIRPERSON: Don't bring the mike close to you please, it's very sensitive.  Are you able to remember any names?

MS FALATI: There were boys who were actually around every time at Mrs Mandela's Commerce House where she was occupying an office, that is just along Orlando station when you go under the bridge from Orlando to Orlando East.  From Orlando West to Orlando there's a Commerce house, it's still there even now.

MR SEMENYA: So you're not able to give us the names?

MS FALATI: That was when I came at Mrs Mandela, it was not staying with her during that period.

MR SEMENYA: Earlier you said Katiza was sent by Mrs Mandela to mess all of you up.

MS FALATI: Yes, it was because of what I've seen in the television - which was reported on the television, that was my first time to know that Katiza was sent by Mrs Mandela - the first time.

MR SEMENYA: Isn't at least your version this, that you are the one who went to Mrs Mandela to say Katiza has a problem?

MS FALATI: Has a?

MR SEMENYA: Made a complaint to you?

MS FALATI: That he was sent by Mrs Mandela, I have taken Katiza because he complained to me about the homosexual abuses in the mission.

MR SEMENYA: What I'm trying to say is ...[intervention]

MS FALATI: I'm trying to answer your question that - now you want to say that I was the one, Katiza has revealed that he was sent by Mrs Mandela to go and fabricate stories about Father Paul Verryn.  At the end of the day you want to blame me and yet Katiza is here and he is going to testify that he is the one who was sent by Mrs Mandela to go and fabricate stories, stories that messed up our lives.

MR SEMENYA: You say Katiza came to the Manse and found you there already, is that right?

MS FALATI: Came to what?

MR SEMENYA: To Bishop Verryn's Manse.

MS FALATI: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: And he was coming for the first time there?

MS FALATI: Yes, for the first time.

MR SEMENYA: And he didn't give an impression he had been to Mrs Mandela before, is that right?

MS FALATI: No, in fact he was brought by Miss Engeleza and that is why I was devastated when I heard that he was sent by Mrs Mandela because to my impression I thought he ...[indistinct] by Miss Engeleza, not knowing that Miss Engeleza had taken Katiza from - Katiza went to Miss Engeleza from Winnie and all that ...[intervention]

MR SEMENYA: No, let's talk about the fact now, as far as you're concerned Mrs Mandela was seeing Katiza for the first time when you brought him to her, is that right?

MS FALATI: You said Katiza was what?

MR SEMENYA: According to you Mrs Mandela was seeing Katiza for the first time when you had ...[intervention]