Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-03-27

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  Today we're commencing our hearings which have been set down for Umtata.  We are going to deal with the application of Mr Wana first and then after that is the application of Mr Siqhola.
	At this stage let me just introduce the Panel to you.  On my left is Mr J B Sibanyoni, he's a Member of the Amnesty Committee, he is an attorney and he comes from Pretoria.  On my right is Mr Ilan Lax, also a Member of the Amnesty Committee, also an attorney, and he comes from Pietermaritzburg.  I am Selwyn Miller, I'm a Judge of the High Court, from Umtata, attached to the Transkei Division of the Court.
	I'd like to at this stage just ask the legal representatives to kindly place themselves on record for the application of Mr Wana.

MR MALAN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  My name is Kobus Malan, I'm the legal representative of Mr Wana.
INTERFERENCE ON MICROPHONES

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, let me put mine off and then if you can just repeat it again, maybe it was causing a disturbance.

MR MALAN: My name is Kobus Malan, I'm the attorney for Mr Wana.

MR NOTUNUNU: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  My name is ...(indistinct) Notununu from the firm ...(indistinct) Notununu and Associates, here in Umtata.  I'm the legal representative of the victims.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Notununu.

MR MGIDLANA: Mine is Mgidlana, Thandewefika.  I'm appearing for Col Booi, who is now retired, who had been implicated.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mgidlana.

MR MAPOMA: I am Zuko Mapoma, the Evidence Leader for the Amnesty Committee.  Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.  Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, it's my instructions to submit to the Committee today to withdraw the application of Mr Wana in this matter, for various reasons which were submitted to the Committee in chambers.  After careful consideration, we decided to withdraw the matter purely for the simple reason that after considering the facts, that Mr Wana does not fall within the ambit of Act 34/95.  We felt that we will unnecessarily prolong this hearing when then outcome is quite clear.
	It was however my instructions to make use of this opportunity to convey to the next-of-kin our sincere condolences for the unhappy and unfortunate event.  And we also would like to convey to the Committee that we are sorry to do it at this late stage, but it was due to circumstances beyond our control.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Malan.

MR NOTUNUNU: Honourable Members of the Panel, as already indicated, I represented the victims in this matter.  Honourable Chair and Members of the Panel, as victims we really do not know what to do, but the point is the applicant filled in forms wherein he was applying for amnesty and my instructions were to oppose the application in question.  Now that the applicant is withdrawing the application in question, we do not feel that there is anything we can do.
	I may mention, Honourable Members, that I've taken instructions from those who have instructed me, that is the victims, and it had been their hope that today they were in fact to be in a position to hear and know what had actually in fact happened to those they loved, but such an opportunity has however been missed and really there is nothing we can do, because we cannot, as the victims, force the applicant to move an application if he decides to abandon same.  
	We may mentioned of course that when we saw the application itself, that is the application for the amnesty, it refers to murders etcetera, etcetera, but we were are told that the whole thing, the whole truth and all the circumstances surrounding the death of those people, would in fact be revealed today, but it is very much unfortunate that such cannot be the position.
	We would request - I don't know if that is possible, we would request the Honourable Members of the Panel to please explain to our clients.  We have tried our best to explain to them.  This has been very traumatic for them.  For instance, they were here the last time and the application had to be postponed to today and this was after a long time they've been under the trauma.  It is worse that even today this matter is not going to go on for hearing.  We would request the Panel to, if that is possible, explain to them that well, such is the position and nobody can do anything under the circumstances and that the whole thing we'll take from here and see what's going to happen next.  Thank you very much, Honourable Chair and Honourable Members of the Panel.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Notununu.  Do you have anything to say Mr Mgidlana?

MR MGIDLANA: There's nothing more, Judge, except to say that insofar as the application was concerned, there was a mention of Col Booi, and the insinuation was made therein that he had issued certain instructions.  Ours were to deny that there were such instructions that were ever issued to go and kill anyone.  It's just to have that placed on record, Chairperson, otherwise there's nothing more.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mgidlana.  Mr Mapoma, do you have anything to say?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Chairperson, I have nothing to say in the light of the current developments, because Chairperson, the Committee cannot compel the applicant to apply for amnesty if he chooses to withdraw his application.  So I have nothing to say, Chairperson.  Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mapoma.
	As you've heard, the applicant has now indicated that he is withdrawing his application for amnesty, as has been stated by Mr Notununu and Mr Mapoma, that is in the discretion of the applicant to do so.  He has brought the application voluntarily to the TRC, to apply for amnesty, he has now decided to withdraw his application and unlike a criminal case where an accused person is forced by the State to attend, whether he likes it or not, we do not have the power, the authority, to force Mr Wana to proceed with his application because this is not like a criminal case.
	We, the Panel, when we came here, were expecting like I'm sure the victim's family and the victim himself, to hear the evidence.  We've read the papers and we were expecting to hear it but as you've heard, the application has been withdrawn and all we can do is to note that and to record that withdrawal of the application.  The effect of the withdrawal, it has no effect at all, other than we're not going to hear what happened.  We are not in a position now to make any decision at all, either granting or refusing amnesty.  So the status quo unfortunately remains the same.  And I can understand the anxiety of the victim and the family of the victims, in not hearing the whole story, the whole version as to what occurred on that dreadful day when their loved ones were killed and when the other victim was seriously injured.
	So in effect then, that brings this application to an end.  We've noted that it's been withdrawn, it won't be able to be reinstated again, it's the end of the matter.  So that is all that can be said.
	The other matter that we have on the role is that of Mr Siqhola.  We will be adjourning now and postponing until 2 o'clock.  We'd hope to commence with that at two.  We were informed this morning that people involved were told that it would start tomorrow because we expected Mr Wana's application to take at least the whole of today, but seeing that it's now been withdrawn, Mr Mapoma is now endeavouring to get everybody back again so we can start the Siqhola matter at 2 o'clock.  So we will then at this stage adjourn until 2 o'clock today when, hopefully, we'll be in a position to proceed with the other matter, that of Mr Siqhola.  Thank you very much.
APPLICATION OF MR WANA WITHDRAWN
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS