Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you understand, did the other areas have to do anything?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Well, my type of instruction which I've received was that they wanted to see corpses, that it was the real McCoy and from that I understood that the other groups also had to exercise the same option to leave corpses behind.
	But they had to do something absolutely, there were two Commanders from various areas.

MS VAN DER WALT: When on the following day you arrived at General Oelofse's, did you ask if any of the other areas had undertaken anything?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I asked him whether or not he had heard anything from the other areas, he said that at that point, it was still quiet, but that he was fully convinced that the other areas had in fact done work.

MS VAN DER WALT: You said that you then cut off your hair and shaved off your beard.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That was during the afternoon Mr Chairman.  He said that nothing else had happened in the other areas, that we had to lay low and among others, he also told Deon Martin to get rid of his Mercedes which to me would have been futile.

MS VAN DER WALT: On the 14th of December, this is in 1993, you went to the Voortrekker Monument?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That is correct Chairperson.  Deon Martin and I went there in a caravan and later on the following day other members joined us as well as our wives.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you go and do there?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: The chief objective was the protection of General Japie Oelofse and we were also asked to form a guard of honour with the generals of staff, for praise by the generals of staff, and the AWB for our attempts at bringing about the revolution.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know of any bomb explosions which took place during that time period in Pretoria?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Not only during that time period, but shortly before bombs had exploded in Krugersdorp during the time of the celebrations of the Day of the Covenant, four bombs exploded with which General Oelofse and other members were involved.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know that a sub-power station was near the monument which had also been destroyed by a bomb explosion?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, the sub-station was not destroyed, it was not in working operation.  It was a futile exercise.

MS VAN DER WALT: But there was an attempted explosion?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who was responsible for that?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: General Oelofse.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you form a guard of honour then for the leader of the AWB?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I and some of my men who were present, along with the generals, formed a guard of honour.

MS VAN DER WALT: On the 31st of December you left your place of residence, is that correct?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, I wanted to see if there was any problems.  General Oelofse had been arrested for the bomb explosions and I did not know whether or not they were arresting all the Regional Commanders, and that is why I left on the 31st of December for a place very near Margate.
	I stayed there for three days, I lay low and then from there, I contacted my wife.  She didn't know the number, but I just wanted to know how things were.  She relayed an instruction to me that everything was perfectly safe and that I could return home.
	Everything was normal, that I could continue with the planning as conveyed to me by General Oelofse.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did you return home?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I returned home.  Martin van der Schyff came to fetch me personally and took me back to Randfontein.

MS VAN DER WALT: And then on the 6th of January 1994, you were arrested?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I would like to state it clearly that I had not been arrested up until this very day.  I was abducted.

MS VAN DER WALT: What happened?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That morning I was on my way to work, approximately three kilometres away from my home, there was a stop street.  There were people in civilian clothes with boxes or caps, it seemed that they were going somewhere.
	I was busy adjusting my airconditioning, when my door was opened and a 9 mm pistol was held against my head.  They told me to get out, I was under the impression that my vehicle was being stolen.
	I was forced into one of the busses and I saw that one of the men who had pulled me over, was climbing into my vehicle.  He drove ahead and the bus in which I was, followed.
	The other vehicles also followed.  We moved towards a field where they stopped, and asked me whether or not I would cooperate.  I said that if I could help, they should just say the word, but I didn't know what I could help them with.
	They told me, or Mr Andrew Leask told me that I couldn't help them, that I could only help myself.  He said tell us what you have done.  Seeing as I had been involved in other situations, such as meetings, patrolling and the manufacturing of firearms and I had been in possession of instructions on how to manufacture home made firearms, I did not say anything, I remained quiet.
	He told the man on my left side take him away, and give him the hard option, make him talk.  The man on my left side was a man by the name of Prinsloo, Joggie Prinsloo.
	How I came to know his surname, was during the first trial, we can get to that later.  They took me to a place which I did not know, because he immediately took off his jersey and wrapped it around my head so that I could not see anything.  I was placed on the floor of the minibus, and was kept there.  We arrived at a specific place.  If I could estimate, we drove approximately eight kilometres.
	I was left in the vehicle for a while and after that, I was removed and made to lay on my stomach.  Around my hands I could feel that I was laying on a certain type of blanket.
	My feet were first tied with a certain type of material after which they were tied with a certain kind of material, it could be wire or something like that, and the same was done with my hands.
	After that, I was rolled into the blanket.  They were clearly not satisfied with my position or the position of the blanket, they moved me, opened, repositioned me and rolled the blanket closed again.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mrs Van der Walt, there must be a limit with regard to details about which he is telling us, to which we can go, unless you tell us the relevance of that details.

MS VAN DER WALT: I will do my best.  You were then tortured by the Police.  Did you sustain any injuries?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, I was so severely injured that from the time that I was tortured by the SAP, I had undergone four operations.
	My left side has been partially paralysed, I have no balance towards the left side.

MS VAN DER WALT: And today you are in a wheelchair as a result of that?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, I am in a wheelchair and I have lost 90 percent of the use of my neck.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were detained in terms of Section 29 and when you were released, you were placed in the Johannesburg prison?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you meet General Japie Oelofse there or not?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I did not personally see General Japie Oelofse at Protea in Soweto where we were held under Section 29.  He shouted to me several times, to have courage, that the Boere would come and fetch us.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was he also held under Section 29?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, at that point he was held under Section 29 and he shouted at me that he was impressed and that we shouldn't be worried, that we were heroes.
	After we were released under Section 29, we were sent to Diepkloof where we were held with him and some of his Krugersdorp activists.