Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-14

MR MALAN: Can I ask you to please tell us specifically what you saw on television. We have all the other information about the conversation with the attorneys.  You do have all that, but I mean, you are not giving us information relevant to how this whole thing was solved.  You saw something on television, you saw the combi at the Hallmark Building which, the combi your son was driving and you also have further information about how you saw who was, how you find out who was responsible for your son's death.  Do you not please just want to tell us those two things, please.

MR SHONGWE: As we were still amazed, surprised there, when they were taking the corpse on or when they were showing the corpse on the television they also showed the combi scratched outside, with scratches.  We saw that combi and
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they were saying that David was in that Combi and David planted bombs in Hallmark Building where that combi is parked and we were surprised.  Where David got those bombs because we knew David to be a very innocent person.  He was not even affiliated to any of the political organisation. How could he do that because he was not even active in as far as politics were concerned.  
 The City Press also came to ask us questions so we could tell them what we know.  We went to the building.  We were refused entrance except the people who were working there like soldiers and, we went.  The City Press journalist went, insisted to go in and he found us some information that that combi was driven by whites and apparently ...  This boy said he witnessed everything, he saw everything that happened.  So the boy came to tell us.  You know, I felt better now that I knew the truth.  This boy who witnessed this, there are some people who attacked at his place.  We just heard afterwards that Ellias had taken this boy to a place of refuge somewhere in Johannesburg.

MR MALAN: It is very important, I know you would like to tell us everything, but we would like to know, they arrested somebody at stage in connection with your sons's death.  Is that correct?  Who did they arrest?  Do you not want to tell us that?

MRS SHONGWE: A boy from Mamelodi by the name of Ellias Mabena was arrested from Mamelodi.

MR MALAN: Did they tell you they arrested him because of the murder on your son?

MRS SHONGWE: They said these murderers were two, but one has fled by the name of Ellias and Ellias Mabena did appear in court.
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MR MALAN: Was there a court case?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes.

MR MALAN: Did you attend at Central?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes, in Pretoria.

MR MALAN: Did Mr Mabena appear in court?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes.

MR MALAN: Was he represented by an attorney?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes, he had a State Attorney.  You are welcome to listen to the interpretation, but it is clear that you understand me when I speak to you in Afrikaans.  You say that there was an advocate representing him as well and you also mentioned in your statement that he applied for amnesty, this Mr Mabena, and that he was granted amnesty.  Is that correct?  Is that correct?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.  He was granted amnesty, but that amnesty, he did not disclose the reasons why he killed him or what had happened, but he was indeed granted amnesty.

MR MALAN: You brought to our attention an affidavit which Mr Mabena laid before a magistrate.  Is that so?  You gave us a copy of a document, a copy of an affidavit which Mr Mabena submitted where he acknowledged his part.  Is it true that you have a copy in your possession?  Was it given back to you, did you receive it?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes.

MR MALAN: Would you like to tell us what he says there?  What did, what was his explanation, what did he say?  Can you remember what he said?  I think if you turn the page there is a short explanation which he gave.  What did Mr Mabena say?

MRS SHONGWE: He said he shot him twice or three times, but
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the day when we went to the Courts of Law he did not explain as to what had happened and why.  They also told us that this case will be postponed and we will be called again, but we were never called up to this day, but he was granted amnesty.  When we heard that they were at the Court of Law the attorney was, were not there during that time, that court case.  So we do not know what was discussed.

MR MALAN: Can you remember that he mentioned in his affidavit that he simply needed the combi and that they were not specifically looking for your son, but that it was merely coincidental that he was in the combi, that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time and that is how he was shot.  Is that what he said, that they took the combi?  Is that what they said?

MRS SHONGWE: That is not true.

MR MALAN: Can you read?  Have you got the declaration in front of you?  You gave us a copy of that declaration.  That does not particularly matter.  We will look into the matter.  You said in your statement that he was granted amnesty and that he was honoured.  What was that for?  Do you know who honoured him and why?

MRS SHONGWE: I do not know.  I would not say, but at the Court of Law he was laughing at us, making us laughing stocks.  He was not showing any signs of being regretful or, whatsoever.

MR MALAN: Thank you very much Mam.  I would just like to put one more question to you.  You say that you took the police to where you went to see the corpse.  That was at Britz Police Station.  Are you certain that it was a police station or was it somewhere else in Britz?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes, I am certain.  That is Britz Police
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Station.

MR MALAN: Fine.  Thank you very much Mam.  I have no further questions.

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Shongwe, just one more question.  You said that your son, David, is survived by two children.  I would just like to know where they are.  Are they with their mother or who takes care of them?

MRS SHONGWE: No, they are with me.  One is with the grandmother at Witbank.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry.  Russell.

RUSSELL ALLY: If I could just ask you one or two questions please.  The person who admitted responsibility for the death of your son, was, it says a member of the ANC, David Mabena.  Did the ANC ever speak to you about this event.  Did they ever approach you and discuss this matter with you?

MRS SHONGWE: Yes, ANC was so helpful, but the ANC did, the Lawyers for Human Rights did come to me although the ANC as a body did not come to me.  I had to pay them though.  You know when we got to Britz we wanted our own doctor so the Lawyers for Human Rights did pay. ANC was not so helpful.

RUSSELL ALLY: And then you also, Zwane, who, sorry, Zwane, whose name came up in the beginning, he was the one who approached your son in the beginning.  His name comes up again.  What, and in your statement you say that he was also thought to be involved in this.  What happened with Zwane?  Is there anything more you want to tell us about Zwane?