Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-17

MR LAX: Somewhere in your statement you mention that it was suspected that these people thought you might be ANC supporters.

WITNESS:   No, that's not correct.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... misunderstanding?

WITNESS:   Yes, that was a misunderstanding.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... that you were IFP members at that time.

WITNESS:   That is correct, I was an IFP member.

MR LAX: Was there political violence going on in your area at that time?  That is in 1991.

WITNESS:   Yes, there was political violence, but one couldn't explain because ANC had no grudges with any other organisation, even Inkatha as well.  But there was no violence as such as to killing people.

MR LAX: So you don't really know why these people shot you?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.

MR LAX: I didn't hear very clearly the place where the court case was.

WITNESS:   Piet Retief.

MR LAX: And you've given us some dates which will help us trace the case.  Now, which police station did you go to?  Oh, here it is here - Mahamba Police Station.

WITNESS:   I went to Mahamba.  I gave them my statement.

MR LAX: You said it was Sergeant Hlope that handled the case.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Tshakala, we've heard your story and we would like to take this opportunity to thank you for coming here.  It is very disturbing to know or to realise that many people have suffered in those days, yet they didn't know why they were suffering so much.  This is reflecting to us how difficult it was for us in those days.  I trust that as you came here before the Commission you will find a little bit of relief, and we're going to take this statement and we're going to make recommendations to the President.  He's the one who will know what to do.  We do have counsellors, and we would like you to get into contact with them, and you must tell them everything, every need, every grievances that you have, something that will help you in this situation.  Thank you.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you for this opportunity that you have come forward to the Commission to relate your story.  Before we get started listening to your evidence we will kindly ask you to stand up and take the oath.

GRETA MTHETHWA: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax will lead you.

MR LAX: Good afternoon, Mrs Mthethwa.  Welcome again.

WITNESS:   I greet you also.

MR LAX: We've got the details of your family, and from this we can see that you have a son and three grandchildren.

WITNESS:   Others are grown up now.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... just for the record can you tell us who the other children are that you haven't mentioned here.  You mentioned ... (inaudible) ... I assume, or some other grandchildren.

WITNESS:   I am Sizagele.

MR LAX: Are you Sizagele?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Okay.  You've mentioned Thelemuza.

WITNESS:   That is my son.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Clarisse, Xolani, Windi, Sifiso.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, that's it.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Now, your troubles seem to have started in the Nquthu district when your late husband joined Contralesa.

WITNESS:   Not my late husband.  I have my husband.  He's alive.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... very confusing.  Sorry.  I apologise.

WITNESS:   What happened is this is my second husband.  He joined Contralesa.  My first husband died.

MR LAX: Okay.  Thanks for clearing up the confusion.  Please continue with the story and just tell us what happened from 1985.

WITNESS:   My husband joined Contralesa, and then after he had joined Contralesa ... (incomplete)

MR LAX: Please continue.

WITNESS:   After he had joined Contralesa - Contralesa was pro-ANC - pro-Democratic Party in the area, and it was not favoured in Nquthu.  People were very against Contralesa, and ... (inaudible)

MR LAX: Sorry, the - it's okay if you can speak in Zulu, that's also all right.  You don't have to speak in English.

WITNESS:   I can speak in ... (inaudible)

MR LAX: Please continue.

WITNESS:   All right.  And then there was ... (inaudible)

MR LAX: It may be helpful if you ... (incomplete)

INTERPRETER: What is happening here?  Yes, all right, go on ahead in Zulu.  I'll interpret.

WITNESS:   I would like to say that my husband joined Contralesa with Chief Molefe, Elphas Molefe of Nquthu.  When he joined Contralesa that's where things began, when we got to be enemies in Nquthu.  I tried my level best to show him and advise him of my background since I was an IFP member, and once was a member of Legislative Assembly, Inkatha Legislative.  I withdrew my membership from IFP and stopped politics altogether before I got married to Mthethwa.  Mthethwa himself joined Contralesa, and I pleaded with him not to join Contralesa because I knew very well what Inkatha and its members are.  I know them very well.  I was in the centre of IFP in the central committee.  But he wouldn't listen to me.  Things went on and now boycotts started, and I got married, and we had businesses that belonged to myself and my husband, and there were boycotts.

CHAIRPERSON: Tell us what kind of business?

WITNESS:   It was a supermarket, a restaurant, and a filling station as well.  And the fried chicken outlet.  And there was a book shop and the butchery.

MR LAX: Please take your time.  Take your time.  (Pause)

WITNESS:   My boys from my first marriage were still very young then, and it was easy for people to say they were ANC boys, and they weren't.  I never was a member of ANC even at once.  I am a child of God, I am a brethren.  At night I couldn't sleep peacefully because I had heard threats from people that my husband was in danger.  In 1987 - I am sorry, in 1988 he left for Lusaka to meet ANC.  That was before the ANC was unbanned, and he met the members of ANC and he was with the people of Contralesa.  And when he got back that was known, and I was told that it was not acceptable what my husband was doing and into.  I got a number of threats at work.  It was in 1989.  I was so scared.  And in 1990 people boycotted, and I could see danger facing my children.  I told my husband, and I was adamant, saying, "I know IFP very well.  Please withdraw."  He nevertheless went on, and I could see that my stay and everything wasn't safe.  I therefore decided to sell some of my businesses and we flee.  We left for Johannesburg, and my boys were attending high school.  When I got to Johannesburg we bought a house in a boer suburb, and the boers came and stole money, close to R1 million, because at the time the boers were very racist and could not accept any black person living around their suburbs.  We got back.  I left my husband in Johannesburg and decided to go back to Nquthu, and I deemed it fit for him to just remain and I will leave and go back.  Although I withdrew from Inkatha I have nothing against them, and they are no things that I do behind Inkatha's back, so I will go back to Nquthu.

MR LAX: In 1991 you moved back to Nquthu.