Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — UNKNOWN

REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairperson.  I just want to make
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sure that I understand from all of the persons who were testifying because it seems to me that it is true for us who are South Africans, that the dominant factor which is called violence in South Africa in particular, is a factor of Apartheid.
 And apart from the individual loss, but there is something to say that whoever thought of this system of separation, and also of opportunities being given to people in a way which were not equitable with justice, did harm to society.
 And against that background, that we should be coming as we come with our cases, against that background to say that there has been this monster and that a greater portion of this should go also for the person who actually margined such a skill and who continue to perpetuate it, to a point where others wanting to retaliate in their weakness, in the forms and ways which they felt they must be taken notice of.
 Nothing that that background does help us, to be able to understand the breakdown and the hatred that must have gone, I just want to say that to all of us.  Both for those who are victims, especially for those who are victims of different kinds, on different angles in that period of time.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  Are there any other questions?
Ntsikelelo Sandi.

MR SANDI: My question is for Mr Van Wyk.  To see that your, since your statement is in Afrikaans, I will put my question to you in Afrikaans.  The investigation which the Commission is going to do, is going to have to do, would you be in a position to tell us where to start?  Where you would like us to start?

AP VAN WYK: I cannot understand the question too well.
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Please put it to me again.

MR SANDI: As you've said you would like the Commission to investigate this matter, would you like to tell us where to start perhaps.  Where you would like us to start?  Do you understand the question?

AP VAN WYK: No, not really.

MR SANDI: Okay, let me ask you.  You don't understand the question, the Chairperson says the question is too fair.  As you are aware this Commission is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Do you perhaps have anything to say.  Let us suppose the people the who did this, were to apply for amnesty ...(tape ends)

AP VAN WYK: It should be, it would be a very important test to me.  In the regard that it those persons were to apply and were to give evidence and say they could come and say one of two things.  It could either be a politically motivated deed or that they were against me or my organisation, Spur or against me as a person.

MR SANDI: If it was the B option, that they were against me, then it makes the burden easier for me financially, because then my insurance company would have to pay me out, because I was insured against that if it wasn't politically motivated.
 If it would be A, that it was politically motivated, I wouldn't have a problem if they were to come before the Commission, but as Shane said, correctly pointed out, it would have to be sincere of them to come and say we are sorry.  This is why we did it, not because we just want to stay out of jail, but it has to come from them, it has to be sincere, it has to come from them sincerely, that look we are sorry for what we have done.
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 I don't know if I have answered your question.  I would like those people to come forward because that doubt that I have had since that day up till now, that doubt - I am still in business, all people, all races still come to my institution.
 But there have been so many incidents where people come in, where a specific Black person will walk in with a packet in his hand, or go to the toilet and I just relive that whole incident, I ask myself isn't it the same person, isn't it a bomb, because I don't know who those people are, I don't know how they look.
 And that doubt gnaws away at me every day and not a day goes by where I don't call the people in the Spur and say look, this is what we have to do today.  These are the instructions.
 And the reason for that vibe meeting, every shift, is that people are always told to be alert, we were very, very fortunate to get a second chance, there may not be a third chance.
 Up until today, those words are uttered every day from me to my people.  So I think that if the person were to come to me, sit in front of me, say Andrew, me and this one and this one are the ones that planted the bomb and this is why we did it and we are so sorry, please forgive us, then I know, these are the three people, this is how they look. 
 I don't have to worry myself about every other person, I don't know if it is this one or that one or that one, and this is what gnaws away at me, it is pressure, it is stress, call it what you like, but I cannot just shut it away.
 I always say in the Spur, you've got to take away the fig leaves, you've got to be wide awake, you've got to be 
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alert, because there could be an explosion, there could be something at anytime.
 And this gnaws away at a person.  And I would like to see this person either arrested or they should come forward themselves and come and give evidence before this Commission.
 And just lastly I would also like this Commission, the Reparation Committee to investigate if there is any way in which they could help me at this stage.
 They could ease it for me slightly in a few ways.  I am quite sure about it, that there is a way in which I can be assisted.  Myself, my family and my staff.
 I would like the Commission to attend to that as well.  Thank you very much.

BONGANI FINCA: I will address all of you at the same time to save time.
 Your story has been told several times.  But today I think it has touched us on this side of the table very deeply in a special way.  You have shared with us how your dreams were shattered by one act which no matter how you try to interpret it, fails to make sense.
 I am an African and I don't speak for the rest of the Commissioners, because I am speaking now personally.  At the end of testimonies of this nature, those who are African and have endured untold suffering, who have endured the shattering of their dreams, I always say at this time, we salute.
 I say that sincerely because I become proud when these ordinary women and men and children sit before the Commission to share with us the stories of how they have endured suffering, untold suffering.
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 And as an African I have become proud of them.  And something within me says these are African hero's.
 With admiration and pride I always say at this time, we salute you, but I must confess that just now I have got a different feeling.
 I feel a sense of shame.  I know that you want perpetrators to come before you and tell you why they did this, but if you allow me personally, just to express that very deep inside myself I do wish to say sorry.
 Even if it means nothing to you at this stage, you want something more than that.
 This shameful act, no matter how well you try to interpret it, within the context of our struggle, against Apartheid, it is still a shameful act and I feel a sense of shame.
 Thank you for sharing with this Commission a story.  We have heard what you have placed before us, we have heard your requests.  With all the stories that come before us, we promise that we'd try our best to get to the root of it and find out what help we can give where we are able.
 And again in this case, we will try and do that.  Thank you very much.  We adjourn for one hour, we reconvene at half past two.