Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

UNKNOWN: It was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and we were together in Mogapola Street, when the vigilantes arrived and chased us.   We were gathered there, discussing the news we had that there were some of us in the Youth MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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Organization who were included in the hit list.
 When we were still there the vigilantes arrived.
And we could realise that they were approaching us.   We tried to run away.  We ran down Mokutani Street.  When we reached Somumu and Mokutani corner we dispersed.  The other ones took the other directions and the others the opposite directions.  
 The late Monamodi took another direction.  We took the opposite one.   I was the only one who took the opposite direction.  So I was able to hide myself behind the stones that were packed in front of a certain yard.   
 While I was still hiding there the van came together with the people inside - we used to call them Inkatha, because they called themselves so.  They entered the yard.  Just before they entered the yard there were some people who were moving on the street, trying to see why we came 
running.
 There was a girl who they approached and they asked her, did you see where the person who came running, went to.   This girl was so shocked, because she could see that if she didn't point out where the person was hiding, she would be killed.   Therefore, she pointed out that the person who came running went in at the house on the corner.  And then they came out with the person in the house.
 I was still hiding, looking at what was going to happen.   When they brought the person out of the house they were pulling him, kicking him.  Other had self-made swords in their hands and the other one was carrying a knopkierie, which had a very big head.  And they were also assaulting him with this knopkierie.
 The other one came with a big stone which he threw on MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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his chest.  That is from his chest upward.  I can't remember specifically whether it was on the face or the chest, but it was from the chest upwards where it landed.
That happened while he was still lying down.
 After they threw him with this big stone I saw Steven Mathloko having a gun in his hand, which he pointed to this person who was lying on the ground.  And he fired two shots.   On the area of his face.  
 I couldn't see well where they were shooting him, but I was able to see where the gun was pointed.  
 There was the other one who was Bux Loabile. After Mathloko shot this guy Bux kept attacking this person with a hand-made sword, while he was still lying down.  That was when I realised that Monamodi had already died.  
 From there I run away and I stayed at home for a 
while, until late in the afternoon.  And I thought I had better go to Monamodi's place to tell them about what happened, because I wasn't sure whether there was anyone who could go to his place to report about what had happened.
 Therefore, I met his mother and I told her what happened.  From there I went home.   
 That is the end of my story.

DR RANDERA: Yesterday, when Zero spoke he also talked about a list of names and you were also talking about that list of names now.  Are you talking about the same list?

UNKNOWN: This list of names I talked about, we heard that our names appeared on that list.  Therefore, I don't know if Zero was talking about the same list I talked about.  Maybe he was talking about another list.  But if he was talking about the one I was talking about, it must be it.   If he wasn't talking about another list, that is.
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One boy, called Bennie, brought that list to us.  Whilst we were standing there we were looking at that list, just before the Inkatha people arrived.

DR RANDERA: Ms Gasebue said earlier on that there was really very little going on before then.  What made the Councillor and these vigilantes come to the meeting where you were and start attacking people?

MR MOTHALE: What made the Councillors to attack us is that they knew that we were members of the UDF and we were against some of the things they imposed on us in the township.  They wanted us to leave the township and be sent to Pudumo.
 There were many things that we realised were not to our benefit.  Therefore, we started being their targets.  They They thought we might disturb them in achieving their aims.  And they also wanted to threaten our leaders.

DR RANDERA: I have two more questions.  You say in your statement that you actually saw Frida Mabelane pointing out where Monamodi Gasebue was, in which house he was.  Is that what you said in your statement and are you standing with that statement?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is what I said and I stand by my statement.  I saw her.

DR RANDERA: Pointing out the house to whom?

UNKNOWN: She was pointing out to these Inkatha guys who were chasing us.  So the person who spoke to her was Bux Loabile and other ones that I don't know.

DR RANDERA: We heard earlier on that there was a case.  Did you go to the police and made a statement about what you saw?

UNKNOWN: I wasn't able to go to the police, because MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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after that day I became a target of Inkatha's.  On the following day there was another incident and though we wanted to see what was happening we found that Mr Hoffman Galeng's house had been burnt.
 From Mr Galeng's place these Inkatha people again attacked me and I sustained injuries.  These bruises you see on my face, were caused by Inkatha people and I have also some bruises on my head.  
 Therefore, I went to sleep at the hospital on the very same day.  I spent about a week at the hospital. 
 When I was discharged from the hospital I went to the police station.  Therefore, I couldn't make a case in the first instance.  I had to go and tell the police what I saw.
 When I was at the police station they opened a case against me that I am one of the members of the UDF who threw stones at houses in the township.

DR RANDERA: Before you came to us, had you discussed events of that day with any of your comrades. Did you go to Ms Gasebue and told her about what happened or have you kept this to yourself all these years.

UNKNOWN: I told Monamodi's mother this.  She was the first person I reported to.  After her, there was no one else I shared this event with, that is about the death of her child.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Herman, I have just one more question for Ms Gasebue herself.
 Mrs Gasebue what are your expectations of and from the Truth Commission?

MS GASEBUE: I don't know.    After Monamodi's case I was a very sick person.  I became very weak, because of what the police did to him.  They didn't even want to give Monamodi's MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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clothes to me when I wanted to take them.  They didn't give me the certificates.  This incident has made me a very ill person.
 It was the first time I heard someone had been shot in Huhudi, that is being shot with three bullets, as if a lion was being killed, in the presence of the police.
 I don't know whether it was allowed for another person to shoot another person, as if he was shooting an animal.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Ms Gasebue.

MS SEROKE: Herman, is your other name Thanaka?

UNKNOWN: Yes that is true.

MS SEROKE: In your statement you said, that when she
pointed out, what did you hear she was saying?

UNKNOWN: They asked her where are those people hiding themselves who came running?   And she pointed to that yard and said they ran into that yard.  And that was it.  Then they left her and entered the yard.