Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1999-12-13

MR PANDAY: Now for how long Ngobo involved in killing your people?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Mr Ngobo was involved as from October 1990, in the attacking and general harassment of the people as well as killing them.

MR PANDAY: Now when Oswald was assaulted by the people, who had given the instructions for this assault to be carried out?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I did.

MR PANDAY: And was this assault being carried out after the firearm was recovered or before?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: After the recovery of the firearm.

MR PANDAY: Now when Oswald was shot by your comrade, was any specific order given to shoot Oswald?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Mbuyiselwa was standing behind him and I was chairing the meeting.

MR LAX: The question was, was any order given to shoot him.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, I gave the order that he should be killed because he's an IFP member.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Majola, having regard to the fact that you were the Chairman of Block 3, is it correct to assume that the comrades would follow your orders?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Now when Mavis escaped from the group, who had given the instructions to pursue Mavis?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No-one did, she just ran off and the comrades pursued her.

MR PANDAY: Now did the comrades pursue on anyone's instructions or they took it upon themselves?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: They pursued her because IFP members were not wanted in the area in any case, because they were responsible for attacks on us.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Majola, by having Oswald and Mavis killed or issuing the order to have Oswald killed, what did you hope to accomplish by having them killed?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I wanted the attacks by the IFP to cease because they had come there to destabilise our meeting, they did not want our area to develop.

MR PANDAY: Now you mention that ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you just tell them to leave your meeting?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: There was no time because the comrades at the meeting were very agitated at that time.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Majola, you mentioned that they were there to disturb your meeting.  Did these people affect the ANC in any way?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, they did because when we questioned them on the firearm they had received it from Mr Ngobo, the very same Ngobo who was a problem for us.  And they had also talked about going to an Inyanga at Eshowe.

MR LAX: The question was, in what way did they disturb the ANC.  You haven't indicated how they disturbed the ANC.  They got a gun from Ngobo, they went to see an Inyanga, but how did they actually do anything to the ANC at the time?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: As a recruiting officer in Block 3, it made my job difficult because people were scared of joining the ANC because of the attacks carried out by Mr Ngobo and his colleagues in the area.

MR LAX: Well had either of these two ever been seen involved in an attack?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: They had not been seen in attacks but they had a firearm belonging to Mr Ngobo, that is why they were questioned about it.  But they had never been witnessed in any attacks, it was just Mr Ngobo who had.

MR PANDAY: Mr Majola, did you question Oswald as to what he was doing with the firearm or why he had the firearm in his possession?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, I did.

MR PANDAY: What was his reply to you?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: He said he had bought it from Mr Ngobo.

MR PANDAY: And did he give you a reason why he wanted a firearm?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No, he just said it was his firearm.

MR PANDAY: Now why did you see him having the firearm as being a threat to your organisation?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It was because of Mr Ngobo's involvement, who was responsible in attacks on us.

CHAIRPERSON: But he had told you that he had bought this firearm from Mr Ngobo.  You had never seen him using it in any attack.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I regarded him as being a risk to us because firstly, he had received the firearm from Ngobo who was involved in attacks on us with the IFP, and secondly, for the fact that he had gone to strengthen himself with the muti from the Inyanga.

MR PANDAY: Mr Majola, this behaviour of Oswald, did it emphasise in any way his political affiliation?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: His behaviour pointed to him supporting the IFP.

MR LAX: How was that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: As ANC comrades we did not approach Inyangas when we were in trouble from the IFP, and we also did not approach the KZP when we wanted protection.  That was how we realised that he was an IFP person.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Majola, by having these people killed, did you in any way benefit from this incident, or did your organisation benefit from this incident?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I did not benefit in any way, that is why I wish to pass my sincerest apologies, because my intention was to see the area develop.  I would like to request the family members to accept my apologies because it was not my intention for that area to torn apart by war, but it was such that I wanted the area to be developed to have running water and roads.  But I did not benefit in any way.

MR PANDAY: And did the ANC benefit after the death of these two people?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I am not in a position to say.

MR PANDAY: Let me rephrase the question.  The people in Block 3 that were the ANC supporters, did they benefit as result of this?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: After I had been incarcerated I heard the that development of the area was in progress and that ANC members were still residing there.  So it was for their benefit.

MR PANDAY: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chairperson.
	As an ANC member did you have any formal training?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No.

UNKNOWN: Were you a card-carrying member?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, I was.

UNKNOWN: Do you have the card with you?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No.

UNKNOWN: Sir, you say that you were the Chairperson for Block 3, how was this position of chairperson given to you, did you take it up yourself or were you elected into that position?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I was elected at Block 3.  I was elected by the structures in the area.

UNKNOWN: So what structures are these that you're talking about?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I'm talking about committees that exist in the area.

UNKNOWN: Sir, I'm going to say to you that my instruction are that nobody elected you, you just took the position upon yourself.  What would you say to that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I would dispute that, because I was elected by the people in the area.

UNKNOWN: Sir, do you remember anybody in particular that did this election, anybody higher up in the ANC that actually condoned your appointment as chairperson?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Oh, Block 3?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: There are comrades in Block 3, Simolo Radebe and Mr Mahlango.  I am well-known in the area by the comrades. Dumisani Dlamini also resides there and other people from Block 1, people like Bigboy Ndlovu from Block 4.  These people knew that I was the chairperson in Block 3.

UNKNOWN: Sir, what other task did you carry out as chairperson, besides chairing this meeting that was held on the 7th of April '91?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It was recruiting for the ANC.  I would go to Durban to collect forms and recruit people and then I would return with their cards.  If you wanted a card you would be able to get it from me.

UNKNOWN: So what other duties did you have besides the card?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No, I would be responsible for convening meetings and I was also in liaison with smaller communities in the area.