Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-22

MR RANI: The Rhodesian police took me from Bulowayo from the police station, sent me to the [indistinct] Bridge, they took me to Messina, that's when we were taken to the South African - into the South African Police, from there we went to Pretoria and then the following day on six o'clock we went to - we were met by Fred van Niekerk and Stroom  - Stroom and Smith.

YASMINE SOOKA: When - what were you doing in Bulowayo when the Rhodesian police picked you up?

MR RANI: I wasn't doing anything, I was on my way to South Africa.  The first time we were arrested we were at Livingstone.  But the people from Livingstone - the police from Livingstone called South African Police who took us through to Bulowayo at eight o'clock.  Now we had the information from the Livingstone policeman.

YASMINE SOOKA: Who was with you, you talked about we and you said to me that Alfred and Malgas and Alfred Jantjies were with you.  Do you remember the other people who were with you?

MR RANI: Also Mathews Macalema, Alfred Conza and Nzuza - I can't remember the other [intervention]

YASMINE SOOKA: Can't remember - do you know what happened.

MR RANI: I can't remember everybody they are from different places.

YASMINE SOOKA: But do you know what happened to them?

MR RANI: They were sentenced.  Some escaped before I did, they were running away from the State of Emergency, they went to Lesotho, and now when they - when they were discovered they were told you were - you ran away at a certain time.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me what you do now?   How do you support yourself now?

MR RANI: I live on pension.  I try and save my pension that's how I live on, there is no other way, I don't have really energy to go and work.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you feel better now that you've come to the Truth Commission to tell your story?

MR RANI: Ja I do feel  a little better, because I can't say the Commission has any fault, but it's trying to dig up information, just to find out what happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: Are you happy to share that information?

MR RANI: I am very happy.  I am very happy so that everybody else can know what happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: What - what do you actually feel the Commission should you, what would make you feel better?

MR RANI: I - this is very difficult for me, I can't really ask the Commission to do anything, the Commission itself will see what to do.  I can't really instruct it to do anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much for telling us your story.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any questions - yes.

DR BORAINE: Mr Rani I need your help, you told us that after you were tortured you were visited by the doctor, the District Surgeon, who examined out.  Was that right - okay.

MR RANI: Exactly.

DR BORAINE: Can you remember what he said to you?

MR RANI: The only problem is the beating up, because no-one else can do anything for me, no-one can do anything really for me.  The only person, the only thing that can happen is for me to stay with me in prison.

DR BORAINE: Let met try to find out what you mean, are you saying that if the doctor helped you, he would also go to jail?

MR RANI: Yes he was going to be arrested because look my lawyer was also arrested.  He was really also going to be arrested.

DR BORAINE: That - thank you that helps me.  In other words even the doctors who should be helping were nervous to help people like you.

MR RANI: They were very scarred, very-very scarred.  They were really scared.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much for your help.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Rani just  a few more questions, were you tortured at the Pretoria Central or were you - at the prison or were you tortured at the police station, can you remember?

MR RANI: It was - it was at the police station in Gesina where I was prosecuted, not at the Pretoria Central, it was in Gesina.  That's were I was tortured, they wanted statements, they wanted information.

YASMINE SOOKA: And just another question, were you kidnapped first and you were then taken and arrested, do you remember - do you remember what happened first.  Were you first taken to the police station or did they kidnap you first, can you remember that part when you were kidnapped in Rhodesia.

MR RANI: When we were kidnapped in Rhodesia we went to Central in Pretoria.  That is where we were all split up into different places and we didn't know about the whereabouts of each other.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know if the others were tortured as well?

MR RANI: I can't be sure because I didn't see them.  But I know that it is - it is there usual duty to torture people.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were you - when you were charged in Court, when you were triad, were you trialed for leaving the country without having a passport, or were you trialed for having undergone military training, can you remember that?

MR RANI: The reason why I was arrested that side is because I didn't have a passport.

YASMINE SOOKA: And when you were brought to trial?

MR RANI: At the Court is - because I was charged for leaving the country.

YASMINE SOOKA: Can you also tell me do you recall ever being taken to a hospital after you were tortured?

MR RANI: No, I was never taken to hospital, I was treated in the cell.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Mr Rani just one issue, the policeman whom you refer to as Fred van Niekerk, where was he from?

MR RANI: I know Fred van Niekerk when he was still in Cape Town at Phillipi, he was still here, Phillipi at Cape Town.  He was transferred to Pretoria where he is at the moment.

UNKNOWN: And what - what rank did he have, what did they call him, did they call him Sergeant or a General or what, what did they call him?

MR RANI: They called him Major.

UNKNOWN: Major [indistinct]

MR RANI: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Thank you - thank you Chairperson.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Rani can I say that I am really struck by the way you have talked today.  You have such spirit and I am amazed by the fact that you can still laugh about your experiences.

MR RANI: Yes there is only one reason for this, is because out of all these people in this - in this house, I don't have an enemy.  If I had an enemy in this house, I wouldn't - I wouldn't be laughing.  Why would I - why would I cry, why - why would I be angry, there is no enemy of mine in this house.

MARY BURTON: Mr Rani the colleagues of yours who were kidnapped and then arrested with you, did you never see any of them again?

MR RANI: No, the ones I saw were only two.  One - it's Alfred Jantjies who died last year, Goodman Mlaili, who is now in Pretoria in the camp, he is working there.  Those are the only two.

CHAIRPERSON: I would also like to say that we thank you, we also thank the way that even the people who tried to destroy you, but now today you can be able to see this freedom, the freedom that you struggled for.  Thank you.