Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-21

STEPHANIE MILLER: Phila Portia Ndwandwe.  And I seem to think that she was also shot, if my memory serves me correctly, with a 32 bullet and it seemed to me, seeing that there were twelve cases that were in the specific amnesty applications that I dealt with, that five - let's exclude Ntombi for this specific answer, that the three from Elandskop were shot in the head, that the Nxweni body that was exhumed was shot in the head ...(intervention)

MR VISSER: That's at Verulam?

STEPHANIE MILLER: At Tongaat.

MR VISSER: Tongaat.

STEPHANIE MILLER: ... and that by admission in other amnesty applications ...(intervention)

MR VISSER: Ndaba and Tshabalala.  Let me help you.

STEPHANIE MILLER: ... Ndaba and Tshabalala were shot in the head.

MR VISSER: Yes.

STEPHANIE MILLER: That the three at Phoenix were shot in the head.

MR VISSER: Shot in the head, yes.

STEPHANIE MILLER: We never recovered Stanley Biela's body, so I'm not sure about him.  We haven't recovered ...(intervention)

MR VISSER: Well he was shot in the head as well.

STEPHANIE MILLER: Spo Phewa, I don't know how he was killed.

MR VISSER: I don't even know who that is.

MR LAX: Sorry, just for the record, Spo Phewa is the Sbu that's referred to in this case.

MR VISSER: Oh, Sbu.

STEPHANIE MILLER: So given that there were twelve cases and we now have, I'm not sure how Blessing Ninela was killed, your client ...(intervention)

MR VISSER: Shot in the head.

STEPHANIE MILLER: ... he was shot in the head.  It is amazing.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Well let me tell you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Just on that, when you say they were remarkably similar
"The bullet wound sustained by the deceased was remarkably similar to the bullet wounds found in the other bodies."
you're actually talking about the fact that they were shot in the head?

STEPHANIE MILLER: They were all shot in the head and if I'm correct, and I can't swear to this because I don't have the information in front of me, I think they were all shot with a 32.

MR VISSER: How could you ascertain that fact from just looking at, or are you referring to the ballistics report that came back to say it was a 32 bullet?  Is that what you're referring to?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I'm referring to what the forensic pathologist advised.

MR VISSER: And  did he say this is a 32 bullet entry wound?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Well he would have sent it for ballistic testing and done whatever he needed to do.

MR VISSER: Yes, yes.  You see I was going to suggest to you, I don't know of any expert that will give you an opinion just on looking at an entry wound in a skull, as to the size of the bullet that ...(intervention)

STEPHANIE MILLER: I'm certainly not in a position to ...

MR VISSER: That's not what you're doing here?

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's not what I'm doing here.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Chairperson, the bell is tolling at 1 o'clock on my watch here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I see that it is 1 o'clock and unfortunately we'll have to adjourn for the day as some people have aeroplanes to catch.  We'll resume with your evidence, Mrs Miller, on Monday morning.  What time will we be able to start on Monday?

MR LAX: I understand Mr ...(indistinct) is only coming in at half past nine, so ten is ...

CHAIRPERSON: We come further, Chairperson, but we will be here earlier than my learned friend.

MR VAN DER MERWE: I'm trying to cut down to have to listen to Mr Visser all the time.  Thanks, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: So what time should we start, at 10 o'clock?

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MS THABETHE: Can I then assume that I mustn't phone Dr Steve Naidoo to come in on Monday, because it's not likely that we'll be able to hear his evidence on Monday?

CHAIRPERSON: Well I don't know how long we will be, but we're all aware, well I don't know if you people here are aware that on Monday afternoon we will be moving away from here to listen to some evidence in this matter in town, which is going to be a video conference relating to some evidence relating to the skull.  I don't know if Dr Naidoo would be attending that matter, in which event he should come, he shouldn't be told not to come.
	So we will then adjourn now until 10 o'clock on Monday morning, but here.  We will be here at ten in the morning and then we'll move across.  We'll probably have to adjourn, I don't know, maybe at half past twelve or something to get across there and get ready for the other ...  Thank you, we'll adjourn.

MS THABETHE: Can I also place it on record that I've got the colour photocopies of the photos for anyone who wants to have them.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh thank you very much.  The colour photocopies of the photographs are available, Ms Thabethe has said.  Thank you very much for arranging that, Ms Thabethe.
	Thank you, we'll now adjourn until 10 o'clock Monday morning, same place.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: ... while we're looking at it, but we will be looking at it very shortly because we haven't seen it at all.  Thank you.  But anybody who wishes to watch it with us, probably in the press room downstairs, I'm not sure exactly where, are invited to do so.  Thanks.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS