Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

DR RANDERA: Thasibo welcomed.  Can you tell us who is sitting next to you?

THABISO MOLALE: It is my mother.

DR RANDERA: Welcome to your mother too.

THABISO MOLALE: (sworn states)

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thabiso, can you please tell us what happened to in 1985.

THABISO MOLALE: Yes, I can say.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You can continue.

THABISO MOLALE: It was in 1985 on the 14th of July.  I made a mistake when I said it was on the 2nd of July. It was the 14th of July.
 It was when my mother sent me to the shop, it is a shop in Mariri Street and when I went to the shop I met a group of the youth singing a song at the corner.  It was on the day that a meeting was held.   Now they didn't want to disperse immediately after the meeting.  They waited at the corner to sing.  And I went into the shop and bought what I was supposed to buy and then when I left, next door to the shop the youth was throwing stones at a house.
 The police was shooting at the people and I didn't manage to survive, I was also shot with two pelletS that ultimately made me fall.  While I was still on the floor I heard another two shots and they went straight into my leg MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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and the other one was on my buttock and the other one was on my back.  And the last one on my head.
 Next to me a person saw that I had fallen and it wasn't only me, but we were two.  Now this person who saw us called for help and somebody came to help.  Mr Galeng was called to take us to the hospital.
 We managed to reach the hospital safely but the police were also waiting for us.  It was at about past six when the shooting took place but at the hospital our parents were called to come and see us.
 We stayed in the hospital for two weeks under the Security guard.  And after that we were forced to sign a statement that we were the people who threw stones at the Councillor's house, because the Councillor was not wanted during the time.  
 Because I wasn't involved in that incident I did not want to sign.  I didn't want to agree to what they were saying.  I refused and they took us then.  They put us in something like a toilet.  There was a tow bar on the floor and for about ten minutes they sprayed us with teargas.
It was difficult to get out of that room.  We were suffocating and our faces were very hot.   The saliva was just flowing out of our mouths and the tears from our eyes.
 They came to pick us up and they assaulted us.  They said we should take out the people who were the leaders, the people who told us to throw stones at that house.  They took us to the cells for two weeks without any charge and after that they said they will assault us again until we tell them the truth.
 I went to the hospital and from the hospital I was 
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sent to Kimberley and then I asked my parents to accompany me to Kimberley.  I was still under police guard.  
 I stayed in Kimberley for two to three days.  My parent was called and it was my mother.
 From Kimberley we went to Bloemfontein.  I was not in a stable condition.  The four pellets have been removed from my body but the other one was still remaining in my body.  At Bloemfontein they could not take the pellet out of my body.   
 I listened to stories that if I drink a lot of Coke the pellet would stay in my body until they can be in a position to remove it.   
 From the Baragwanath Hospital we came back home for the case, but after that we were discharged.  Nobody was found guilty.
 Thereafter I had a problem with the pellet that couldn't be removed from my head.  I was under treatment from a doctor at Vryburg.  I had many problems with this pellet that was in my head because I can't hear well when someone speaks to me.  I hear here and there and I can't see properly with my eyes.   Other things I can't remember because of the pellet that is still in my head.  It is also very problematic for me to remember of the other events that occurred to me here and there.

CHAIRPERSON: I thank you, Thabiso. How were you at that time?

THABISO MOLALE: I was about eleven or twelve years old.  I was still in standard two by then.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you in the group of the youth who were throwing stones.

THABISO MOLALE: No, I wasn't in that group.  I was sent to
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the shop by my father.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you the same age as the youths who were throwing stones, because there ages were ranging from nine to fourteen?

THABISO MOLALE: Yes, they were only up to 18.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the leaders from the Youth Organization and the Civic Organization do to help you when the youth were in such trouble as you were in?

THABISO MOLALE: The help I got was being picked up where I had fallen by Mr Galeng, who is now a Mayor, who took me to the hospital at that time.  I was also helped by the other youth who was still around at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: I see here that you have travelled to many hospitals, even up unto Bloemfontein.  My question is, did you have a private doctor who would remove the pellets which were in your body?

THABISO MOLALE: I couldn't hear your question clearly.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't your family receive a private doctor who could help to remove the pellets that were in your body?

THABISO MOLALE: All of them were removed, but the one that remained was in the head and I was told that it wouldn't be removed because if it was removed, I would die or be mentally ill.  The other ones were removed really.

CHAIRPERSON: You said you had hearing problems, you had sight problems. When was it last that you went to a doctor regarding these problems?

THABISO MOLALE: That was after I was released from Koto's House, after I was sent there by the ANC leadership and the UDF who were present  at that time.
 I only came to know when they went to inform the 
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lawyers that they had a letter of what happened at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, I have no more questions.

MR MALAN: Thabiso, how old are you now?

THABISO MOLALE: I am 22 years old now.

MR MALAN: When you went to the shop on that day, as you went to the shop did you see the people at the Councillor's house.  Was there a gathering at the Councillor's house already as you were going there?

THABISO MOLALE: No, they were at the corner of the street, singing freedom songs.

MR MALAN: Were they at the time still on their way to the Councillor's house?

THABISO MOLALE: Yes, it seems like that.

MR MALAN: Can you remember what you went to buy for your father?

THABISO MOLALE: Yes, I can still remember.  I went to buy candles and paraffin.

MR MALAN: And when you came out they were already throwing stones at the house.

THABISO MOLALE: Yes, they were already throwing stones.

MR MALAN: And you didn't stop to watch the proceedings?

THABISO MOLALE: I was surprised at what was happening.  During that time I heard a gunshot and when I tried to run away I realised that I had been shot and I couldn't run away and I fell down.

MR MALAN: Thank you.

DR RANDERA: Thabiso, from your statement it is not clear who shot you.  When you went to the shop and on your way back were the police surrounding the Councillor's house.  Who actually shot you?
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THABISO MOLALE: It was another policeman, they call him Odirile.  He was with the other one whom I don't know and I heard from people who were around that when we were at the hospital there were police at the Councillor's house.

DR RANDERA: ... is related to this hospitalization and the police guard.  What does it actually mean when you say you were under police guard at the hospital.  Did they have you on leg irons, were you ...?

THABISO MOLALE: No, they were just sitting around, because I was a very injured person.  We were three.  I was not alone in the room we were in.  There were about two policemen who guarded us per day.