Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

WITNESS:   I know all of them.   On the day of my release Mr Taylor came and he said I must pack my belongings, and I asked him as to why I should pack my belongings.   He did not explain it to me, he just said I must collect my belongings.   And I didn't have any belongings.   He said to me he was going to send with people who were going to deal with me accordingly and he sent Botha together with two males and he said they must pull me outside and one of the criminals who came into my cell I slapped him across the face and he went away.  He said they were going to call some who were going to deal with me.  He came with seven policemen, Indians, whites as well as a black person.   When they came I realised that I was not going to fight or be able to fight with them.   I wanted an attorney and when I was in a cell I felt safe that they would not do anything to me, but if they take me to another place I felt I wouldn't be safe.   I realised that it was better for me to fight with these policemen up till such time that they had to drag me on the ground, taking me to the charge office, where they wanted me to sign a certain statement and then I would be released.   They wanted to take my fingerprints and I refused to give my fingerprints.  They ended up taking prints of my fists.  Then I went away.   I was not fully dressed.   It was on a Saturday during the day and I went to Kwenz(?) Mlaba's office.   And they were sort of also surprised as to where I was coming from, because they were giving me nine tablets per day and they used to make me drink those tablets.    I think those tablets condemned me for life.

MS T MAYER: After drinking those tablets how did you feel?

WITNESS:  I would feel very tired and my eyes would be hazy and when I came out of the prison I was partially blind, up till such time that I was taken to the hospital, my whole body was swollen.

MS T MAYER: How long did you stay at the hospital?

WITNESS:   I was treated and Mary said she wanted me to come to Lamontville at her place, then whenever I went for treatment she would take me with her to the hospital, but now I am receiving psychiatric treatment because I had a post traumatic stress syndrome.

MS T MAYER: How long did you stay in the wheelchair?

WITNESS:   It wasn't very long, because I moved with Mary to her place and I continued with the treatment, I felt better then, and the doctor said I should get more exercise.

MS T MAYER: When you got back home, what was the situation?

WITNESS:   The situation was quite bad.   We could not stay at home because the police used to come and pick up all the children, even the youngest of them all.   They took Mrs Dorothy as well as all the other children.  Even the doctors who were staying in Westville were taken.  Then I realised it was time for me to take my children to go and join MK, because I realised this was a battle, and it was survival of the fittest.   I was forced to take my children.   My children also went out of the country, they were travelling in groups.   And Shembe said I must just be free and relaxed and I would put them at Shembe's place and we would take them in groups so that they would escape the country.

MS T MAYER: Where is your husband and how is he?

WITNESS:   Yes, the times he was at home and at times he would phone for a car to come and fetch the children.   And I would wake up in the morning and go to Maputo and in the afternoon I would be at home because we were always looking after the children who had been victimized.

MS T MAYER: Now, as you had given up your home, did you ever manage to get another home where you could stay peacefully?

WITNESS:   After our arrest we were not able to conduct a proper family life, we ended up separating with my husband.   My husband is in 'Maritzburg and some children are with him, the others are with me.

MS T MAYER: So, are you a family now?

WITNESS:   Yes, we are a family but there is absolutely no contact, real contact of cooperation as a family.

MS T MAYER: When you started you said you gave yourself up or gave yourself in, what were you doing?

WITNESS:   I gave myself to the organisation, I sacrificed my time and my main task was to help people who wanted to skip the country.

MS T MAYER: Which organisation was that?

WITNESS:   It was the ANC.

MS T MAYER: There were certain names that you have been mentioning in the past.  You spoke about Thomas Shabalala, Khanyile, and Albert.  Who are these people?

WITNESS:   Shabalala is one of the prominent members in Lindelani.  Shabalala was the leader of Amabutho and they were conducting a reign of terror within the community.   Albert Smit was a flying squad, member of the flying squad, and all of them were involved in harassing me as well as Basson.

MS T MAYER: Is Shabalala and Khanyile involved in any particular organisation or movement?

WITNESS:   They are members of the IFP, because they said we were against the IFP and we were members of the UDF, we were going around promoting ideologies of the UDF.   And they felt that we were working against them. Mrs Mbatha, you said when you got out of prison  you were mentally disturbed.   You suffered from PTS.   Is there any treatment that you are receiving with regard to that illness?   ---   Every month I go to see my doctor and whenever I skip my treatment my doctor gets very troubled because I am supposed to take my treatment, because your mind doesn't function properly when you are from solitary confinement, especially when you are being harassed by men when your husband is also in the cell and they would shout at me or call my name as if I was some sort of rag or something that has just hopped out of a dustbin.

MS T MAYER: The people who were harassing you, when you think about them now, how do you feel?

WITNESS:   I actually feel pity for them, because when I came back with my children, they were the ones who met me at the airport and they said, "Virginia, you are back with your children".  I asked them, "And so what, what has that got to do with you?", because I did not know what they wanted from me when I was coming from outside the country.  My children were now not able to go on being educated in South Africa, even after I had got a site I was told that I had absolutely no right to get a site in South Africa.  Then the NUM women tried to get me a site.  When I was arrested they took my car, a Ford Cortina, and they went around arresting the comrades in my car.

MS T MAYER: What are your wishes?

WITNESS:   I wish that they could repent from their sins of the past.   I want them to turn over new leaves and change their lifestyles as well as their ideologies.  I feel terrible about the fact that my children have been affected by this aftermath, because they still suffer even now.   And I feel very bad when I think about Albert Smit, who came to ask me about Samora Machel as to whether I had seen pieces of his body, was he buried all intact or was he in pieces, and they said I must toyi-toyi.  They were actually mocking me.

MS T MAYER: Lastly, Mrs Mbatha, is there any message or any wish that you would like to put before this commission?