Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-12

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes because after they killed Carno or shot Carno the children became very angry.  He was, after all, a young person, a young man out of the community.  We tried to stop the young children, not to throw stones because we said that this would not help and that we should rather try and get these other people to leave so that we can solve the problem.  In my view it was the fault of the police and the soldiers because they were very aggressive that day.  I could not have been ten metres away from this man when he shot me like that in cold blood.  I was very close to the armoured vehicle.

DR RANDERA: What made you yourself join the protest?  I mean you were working, you had a job.

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Because of the problems with the rent and the lights and water.  As a member of the community I wanted to add my voice to try and help and to try and talk and ask if someone could not bring a solution so that we could help, in particular, the pensioners, the old people.  Since we young people could afford the rent at that time, but the pensioners could not afford it and there were very many old
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
11 P STELLENBERG
people in our area.  People who received a pension and the rent and the water and lights that they had to pay, with the balance that remained, how could they live from that R40.00 or maybe even R20.00.  One cannot live from that little.

DR RANDERA: Now you mention both soldiers and police.

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes.

DR RANDERA: Who was actually doing the shooting?  Both groupings or just the police?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: The people who shot me were soldiers because they were in this armoured vehicle.  It was a vehicle for soldiers.

DR RANDERA: So they were soldiers not police.

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, they were soldiers.

DR RANDERA: I do not have anymore questions.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Piet Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: Mr Stellenberg, you have come through very difficult times, but I do want to ask you a few small questions with regard to the shooting in particular.  You were shot and your face, and particularly your eyes, were damaged.  Was this with sharp ammunition or not?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: When I was lying in Baragwaneth Hospital on Friday morning the doctors discussed with one another.  The one doctor said to the other that he could not believe that it was live bullet that was used because that would have blown away my whole face.  He rather thought that it might have been a rubber bullet or something that injured me in this way.  All my teeth were shot out of my mouth and so on.

PROF MEIRING: I also wanted to know, just to get back slightly to your own family circumstances.  Where are you working at the moment?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I work in Booysens in Johannesburg.
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
12 P STELLENBERG

PROF MEIRING: What kind of work do you do?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I work in an Engineering works.

PROF MEIRING: Is this where you have worked all along, also when you were shot?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, but the factory has changed its name over time.

PROF MEIRING: What kind of work do you yourself do?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I am a Turner.

PROF MEIRING: So you can continue with this work despite what happened to you?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, I can because I use my hands most of the time.

PROF MEIRING: What is the size of your family?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: It is my wife and two children.

PROF MEIRING: And what is the age of these young ones?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: At the time of the shooting the son was seven and my daughter was 13, but now they are much older.

PROF MEIRING: Do they attend school or have they left school already?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, they still both attend school.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  A last question.  In each case we have returned to the young man, Carno who was shot and who to some extent was the trigger of the events.  Would you know whether his parents still live in Toekomsrus?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: As far as I know his father was already deceased and his mother is since deceased.

PROF MEIRING: So you would not know whether his case has been brought under the attention of the Truth Commission by anyone?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, I really do not know.

PROF MEIRING: A final question.  Are things calm in
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
13 P STELLENBERG
Toekomsrus now?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, peace has returned.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you for having come here.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Stellenberg, just one question from me.  I would like to know what were the living conditions at Toekomsrus at the time when people rioted against the higher rental tariffs?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: After I had been shot and went to hospital, there was a curfew in Toekomsrus.  The people said that this is the quickest that a curfew has come anywhere.  Only within the course of 24 hours it came to Toekomsrus and they asked why such a small place would so rapidly be placed under curfew since the rioting did not last long.  We were simply put under curfew.

CHAIRPERSON: Were the services that you got from the Council which necessitated this increased rentals adequate?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, one could say that, but the services were good, not good enough necessarily, but if at that time they listened to what people were saying, I doubt that all of these events would have taken this course and I would not have been injured as I had been.  Now I have a scar in my face which I have to carry for the rest of my life.  I do not have a tooth in my mouth.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Stellenberg, for coming forward.  We know the discomfort and the pain you have to endure as a result of the screws on both your upper and lower jaws and also the fact that you are aware that it has changed your whole lifestyle and you are worried about these scars.  We can only say we hope you will try to go through this as you have done so wonderfully because you still maintain your job and as far as the request that you
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
14 P STELLENBERG
have made on your statement to the TRC about getting the policeman who did this to you, I can only say we will try to refer this to our Investigation Unit and we hope we could succeed.  Thank you very much.

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I want to ask the Commission whether it would be possible to help me to tell me where and to whom I should go since I do not know whether in future I might need further operations or other medical services related to this incident.  Since I am just a normal working person and the only working person in my family.  To whom should I go to assist me and who would pay me for this damage which I had sustained?  I will look the way I do now for the rest of my life.  In the past I use to enjoy getting along with strangers.  I have now withdrawn only to deal with the people I know well since they know me the way I am, but amongst strangers, people look at you without them saying anything, you can see in their faces what they think and what they are talking about.  I want to ask the Commission to whom I should go so that I may receive some reparation or whether it would be possible for me to receive any reparation.  Especially in future when I grow older I might have to have additional operations and I might then not be working at all.  So, how would I then pay for the operations I might undergo.  After all I do not know what the future holds.  Even though I have kept my work thus far, I do not know whether this would remain the case or for how long.