Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:   I went to Gauteng two times and they told me that they will post everything.  Even to this day I haven't received anything from them.

KHOZA MGOJO: When was the last time you made inquiries in Gauteng?

WITNESS:   It was in 1994 and in 1995, because I cannot go to Gauteng every day.  I am not working.

KHOZA MGOJO: Ja, I understand.  Can you remember any names of people you spoke to in Gauteng?

WITNESS:   No, I can't remember their names, but they were elderly people.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much, that's been very helpful.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Magashule, the Commission would like to help you as much as possible.  You mentioned the name of one person here, Moma Kethe.  She gave you the letter.  Do you know where that person is?

WITNESS:   She is in Koppies.  She grew up in Parys, but she got married in Koppies.

DR MAGWAZA: Moma Kethe, was she the person who was in Tanzania, or she was a person you went along with?  Who was she?

WITNESS:   She was in Tanzania.

DR MAGWAZA: Up to now you haven't heard anything.  Do you have any knowledge of whether she came back to South Africa or not, or have you made inquiries about where she is?

WITNESS:  She came back to South Africa.  She went to her place of birth, and from there she moved on to Koppies together with her husband.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you think she is still in Koppies?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is still in Koppies.

DR MAGWAZA: The second question, you mentioned that when you went to Tanzania you asked them to exhume the body because you would have liked to bury your brother in South Africa.  If he is found to be the person who died in Tanzania would you still want to bring him back to South Africa?

WITNESS:   Yes, I would like that.

DR MAGWAZA: Okay, thank you very much.  That is very important to us, because as a Reparation and Rehabilitation Committee we want to get as much information as possible as to how to go about doing it.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much for coming to the Commission.  We will try by all means to help you, and we would like you to help us as well because we want to investigate about the disappearance of your brother.  And if he is really dead, and if he has been buried in Tanzania, we will try to help, to work together so that you can arrange him a funeral in South Africa.  Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: Ms Molokwane, can you hear my voice?

MARIA MOLOKWANE: Yes, I can hear you.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  I would like to welcome you very warmly on behalf of the Commission.  We are grateful that you have come a long way to tell us the story about your son, and you will tell that in a moment.  First can you tell us who is with you today?

MARIA MOLOKWANE: This is my mum, and I am her daughter.

COMMISSIONER: May I say a very warm word of welcome to your mother as well, and I am very grateful that you have somebody with you together with one of our briefers.  Before I ask a fellow Commissioner to help you to tell your story I have to ask you to please stand, and I am going to ask you a question on the oath, and then I would be glad if you would make your response.

MARIA MOLOKWANE: (Sworn, States)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Please be seated, and I am going to ask Mr Lyster, one of our Commissioners, to help you to tell your own story.  Thank you.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Molokwane, you have lost a child, which is the saddest thing which can happen to a parent, and the Commission expresses its deep sympathy to you.  You have told us in your statement that your son was harassed by the police during the rent boycotts in Thumahole township in 1984, and that after an incident when the police came to your house, and broke down the door, and threw tear gas into the house, your son was arrested and detained.  You have also told us that when he was in detention that he reported to you that he had been tortured by the police, and that he was released on bail.  Is that correct?  Can you confirm that part of your statement?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR LYSTER: And it was after this incident that your son decided to leave the country and to go into exile, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, he went to Zambia.

MR LYSTER: Can you tell us what happened after that?

WITNESS:   He arrived in Zambia and he stayed there for six years, and he didn't write us a letter.  We didn't know anything about him.  After those six years it was in 1990, and we received a letter that he is dead.  (Pause)

MR LYSTER: Please take your time to recover, Mrs Molokwane.  Do you know who the letter came from?

WITNESS:   Happy gave us that message.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... Happy?

WITNESS:   He is one of the fellow Comrades.

MR LYSTER: And did he give you that message by letter?  Did it come to you in a letter?

WITNESS:   He was also in exile.  We received a telephone call.

MR LYSTER: And he told you in the telephone call that your - sorry, I have been referring to him as your son, it's your brother - that your brother had died in Zimbabwe.

WITNESS:   Yes, the message said he died in Zimbabwe.

MR LYSTER: And did Happy tell you how he had died, or why he had died?

WITNESS:   There wasn't any further information about his death.

MR LYSTER: You've said in your statement that his remains were brought home for burial, but that you were not allowed to see his body.  Can you tell us about that?

WITNESS:   It was also difficult to get him into the country, because after hearing that he is dead the ANC people came and they explained everything in details.  We took some few days going up and down together with the ANC.  After getting to a conclusion on the third day they organised a meeting with Nelson Mandela and Walter Sisulu, where we met these people.  Mr Mandela and Mr Sisulu gave us a solution, but they also asked us a question how are we going to get this person.  I said to him, "No, we want him here.  We want to bury him here in South Africa."

MR LYSTER: You said in your statement that his remains were sent to you, is that right?

WITNESS:   I can't say it was his remains because the coffin was sealed.

MR LYSTER: So you're asking the Commission to try and find out exactly what happened to your brother, and whether the person that you buried is in fact your brother?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am here to request the Commission to help us.  The first point, was he sick or did he die in war, because on his arrival he was appointed to be a commander?

MR LYSTER: And are there any documents or other letters, or other documents which you have in your possession which will help the Commission's investigative unit to find out this information?

WITNESS:   Yes, I have documents.  While searching his belongings we received two photos.  There's a girl there, and the other one is Happy.  In 1993 we received a photo.  We couldn't actually reconcile because we were told that he has been buried, now is he now dead to send us this photo?

MR LYSTER: Was that a photograph of him that was sent to you?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's his photo.

MR LYSTER: And do you know who sent it to you?

WITNESS:   No, we don't know.  The photo was put inside a card, because he used to send my mum a card every month - every year in May, but it didn't have any information as to who it was. Mrs Molokwane, we will take those photographs and those documents and make copies of them, and we will give those things to the investigative unit, and we will attempt to get to the bottom of what happened to your brother.   ---   I'll be very much happy to assist.

MR LYSTER: Are there any questions that the other Commissioners or Committee members would like to ask?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Good morning, Mrs Molokwane.

WITNESS:   Yes, good morning.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: I have only one question.  When your son left the country to go into exile how old was he?

WITNESS:   He was born in 1962.  He is a boy.