Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-27

MR BERGER: What political aims and objectives were you furthering by killing that child?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: My political objectives, as I indicated, on killing this child, are similar to the objectives of COSAS considering what they wanted to do to me.   They hurt my mother very much so when they came to fetch me at school.  Those are such similar political objectives that I wanted to achieve.   It is therefore obvious that the mother of the child that I killed was ANC.   I was therefore killing a small ANC, they killed a small Inkatha.

MR BERGER: Were you familiar with the aims and objectives of the IFP at the time of the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I don't want to commit myself, I knew nothing, I was just happy to be toyi-toying around.   I used to sing.   I was the one who was taking the lead in singing.

MR BERGER: When Themba Khosa came to the hostel after the attack, you were there, correct?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not see him.   I only saw him when he left.

MR BERGER: You did not attend the meeting that he addressed after the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not attend such a meeting.   I came to the meeting shortly after Mr Khosa had left, that is I still remember very well, when I arrived Mr Damara was addressing the people to the effect that they should burn the loot from Boipatong.

MR BERGER: All right, so let's just get clarity on that.   Themba Khosa addressed the people and then he left.   After he left, Damara Quonquo gave an instruction that all the loot from Boipatong should be burnt?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And the loot was burnt after that?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, the loot was burnt, even though I did not see these items, I only saw fire, a huge flame of fire.

MR BERGER: Did you think, at the time of the attack, that the leaders of the IFP, Themba Khosa, Mangosuthu Buthelezi,  would have approved of your actions?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I think that they would not have approved of such actions.   Those people are highly respected, they are very prominent, to be supporting such matters as the killing of people, no, I don't think so.

MR BERGER: And you knew that that was their attitude at the time of the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not know that.

MR BERGER: No, no, at the time of the attack, you knew that the leaders of the IFP, such as Themba Khosa and Mangosuthu Buthelezi, would not have approved of the attack if they had known about it, correct?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, yes.   We could have been arrested, that was an attempt to kill.

MR BERGER: Why did you want your actions to be a secret, why did you not want anyone to see you?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: The reason behind that is that those who did the same thing to me kept it as a secret to themselves.   I think to this day no-one saw them, but as far as I know or think somebody must have seen them, because in my case Richard saw me.

MR BERGER: But why didn't you want your comrades, who themselves were killing people, young people, old people, babies, in Boipatong, why didn't you want your comrades to see you?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Mr Berger, would you please repeat the question.  I told you I had a hearing problem.

MR BERGER: Why did you not want your comrades, who themselves were killing old people and babies, to see you as you killed the child, why did you want to hide it from your comrades?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I had to hide this from them, because the very same comrades who killed my sibling kept this as a secret to themselves as well.

MR LAX: Mr Berger, you may be confusing him with the word "comrades".

MR BERGER: Mr Khubeka, why did you not want the people who were with you, the people who were attacking Boipatong with you, to know what you had done?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: It is because I don't want them to know that I did that, killing the child, an innocent soul, that's an innocent soul that I took away, that is the reason.   Had I told them that, they could have been dumbfounded about it.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you say about the Kwamadala committee?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am saying that they would have gone as far as bringing me before the Kwamadala committee to try and address my shame of having killed a child.

MR BERGER: Approximately a week before the attack, there was a meeting at the hostel, correct?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, there was a meeting.

MR BERGER: And at that meeting you were told about an attack on Boipatong, correct?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, but they did not give us the name of the township.

MR BERGER: They just said, "In a week's time, we are going to attack", but you did not know where?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, they did say that.

MR BERGER: And as far as you were concerned, it could have been anywhere, you weren't concerned to know?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Anywhere, as Mr Mkhize had pointed out, he did not divulge the name.

MR BERGER: Of course that's what Mr Mkhize has said here, so you're not going to contradict him, is that right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I want to say that Mr Mkhize spoke at the arena to say that we will go and attack, but he said, "I don't want to tell you where we will be going to launch this attack, because you people are corrupt, some of you will sneak the information out to the police", he said, "I will tell you on that particular day.   Now you can go".

MR BERGER: But he did tell you at that meeting, "In one week's time, on the 17th of June, we will be going on an attack", he did tell you that, he just didn't give you the destination?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: He did not tell us where we were going to attack and he could not have told us.   I emphasise that because there are many traitors at Kwamadala, we sell each other out.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he tell you the day when you were going to attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, he did not tell us.

MR BERGER: Well, what did he tell you on the 10th?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I remember that that was the day on which he was going to tell us where the attack was going to be launched, but he did not tell us the name of the township.  I think that was the meeting, even though I'm not sure of the date.   I would have told you had I remembered it.

MR BERGER: What did he say about an attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: He said, "People, I heard your cries, you've been crying for a long time now, crying to me to the effect that `we are dying', and now we are going to go, but I'm not going to tell you where we will go and attack at that place", and therefore each one of us had to conclude what kind of arms each one of us were going to use.   He said he was going to tell us on that particular day and there was no date.

MR BERGER: And then on the 17th, he told you, "Now we are going to attack Boipatong"?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I had come from toyi-toying that day, I was very tired, I thought that we were still going to go to Boipatong, I had already thought of that.

MR BERGER: On the day of the attack, at the stadium, Mr Mkhize said, "Now we are going to attack Boipatong"?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, he did speak that day to say, "We are going to Boipatong today".

MR BERGER: Isn't it correct that you have only disclosed facts which are already known to this committee and that you are not prepared to say anything further than what your co-applicants have already said?