Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you gentlemen.  I'll just put a few questions and you can answer them in any way in which you feel any of the two of you is the best person to answer that question,  But maybe, let me start almost immediately by putting a question relevant to the SABC. You have made a statement that the SABC was essentially the Nationalist Party/Broederbond on air.  Yesterday there was a testimony from a certain Mr Raubenheimer who was in the SABC for a substantial period of time and within the confines of the time that we had and which we have with you, we were not able to go at great length to test some of the submissions that he made.  But he conveyed an impression that even if it can be conceded that the Broederbond had some measure of influence over the SABC, that by itself was not a basis for anyone to conclude that the SABC was not independent. That they were an agent or a propaganda tool of the government. That's the first question.   Now what would your comments be on that in view of your experiences?	If I may ask another question. He also conveyed a similar impression about an admission which he made that a functionary or an organ of the State Security Council in the form of STRATCOM was an organ which he particularly, he used to attend the meetings of STRATCOM, STRATCOM was one branch of the State Security Council at which major decisions were made and he said even though he did attend those meetings, none of the things that could have been decided there had any impact on the manner in which the SABC conducted themselves.  In other words, they were not necessarily influenced by what came from those meetings.  In other words he gave an impression that the SABC notwithstanding those influences, was independent, was fair, was able to deal with its policies in a manner which shows them to have been completely autonomous and uninfluenced by the government of the day.	Now you seem to be testifying differently. Can we have your comments on those, on Mr Raubenheimer's evidence?

TSELISO RALITABO: Ja, the first part of the question Mr Chairman, I would say it would be unfair for anyone to justify the atrocities of the SABC during the era of the past regime, because for instance,one, if you were a black person working in the newsroom, you were given a script to read on air for your audience, that would highlight things or maybe that would refer to liberation movements or the people who were involved in the liberation struggle as terrorists and we are lucky that today we are conducting this hearing here, the SABC.  If we may go to archives now and check the material that was produced or perhaps handled by Cliff Saunders, you would find that some of the material was first handled by the government officials before it goes on air, in Afrikaans, English and then translated into black languages. So if anyone denies that SABC was operating along those lines, we have archives here and we can actually go and check that material.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you.  Now sjamboking - if it was not so serious it would be laughable. But would we be able to access any evidential material in the form of statements from people, would you assist the TRC to access people who actually were sjamboked because they found that that was an option?  Can we make it very clear to them it's not an intention to humiliate them?  If anything it's to restore their dignity. We need to have details.

ZAKES NENE: Yes we can compile that and provide a submission within 7 days from today.

MR NTSEBEZA: I am sure you would have to do that and make those available to Mr Hugh Lewin.

ZAKES NENE: Okay.

MR NTSEBEZA: It's unbelievable, but it's material that we need to have. It's so direct in the form it illustrates gross violations of human rights by a media which was supposed to be a public broadcaster.	Now did any of your members die in detention?  I do think that there is a reference in your submission to somebody who died within 24 hours of his detention in a Bantustan prison.  Can you give an account of that on record?

TSELISO RALITABO: Yes we had a member who was working in the then Northern Province, Comrade Makompo. Comrade was detained in 1986 and we had tried to rush to the police station and try and secure his release, only to find that within a very short space of time Comrade Mokompo Kutumela has died.  We  put up massive court applications trying to follow up and get information but we were told that Comrade Makombo has hanged himself and as a suicidal accident and nobody has been charged with that.

ZAKES NENE: Maybe to add Mr Chairman there was no investigation that was conducted, it was just that kind of explanation and then the case was closed.

MR NTSEBEZA: We'll possibly follow that.  In fact I think we need to follow that and find out what really happened.  Members of the Investigative Unit will possibly want to know the details so that we can just wind up this aspect and see to what extent it can be done.  	Now do you have any recommendations as people who are aware that our mandate is to make sure, via our own recommendations to the State President in the country, that such things that you have talked about should never happen again? Can you briefly give a view of what you think ought to be the function of the media in a democratic and non-racial, non-sexist society based on freedom and equality?

ZAKES NENE: Ja personally through you Mr Chair I would like to come in on affirmative action which is something that some of our members even feel it is becoming a national anthem because it is always talked about in passages but it is not being handled in the manner it is supposed to be. 	If you look at other companies in the printer like for instance Perskorporasie, our members in those companies are working under the conditions of semi- slavery, so at this stage I don't think a company like Perskor, which still operates in the pillars which were formed along the thinking of Dr Hendrik Verwoerd, that is those things are still operational and it is very unfair for those people who are subjected to those conditions actually to support such a company.  And the intransigence from Perskor management clearly indicates that they operate outside the labour laws of this country. Therefore we need something that would actually be done by the South African Government itself to ensure that these media institutions actually do something about black empowerment and affirmative action.