Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-09

WITNESS:   That is my deceased brother.  They said he alleged that he had los some money on that day and when he saw the police he asked them to search a person who was following him at that time.  And the police said he was drunk and they did not want to listen to him.  And they had an argument.  They were alleging that he was drunk and he was denying it.  And one of the policemen hit him with the fist on his chest.  Then he returned to fist to the police.  That's when the fight started.  The fight between the police and my deceased brother started then.  And that's when he was arrested.  He was taken to the police station.  The explanation that we got from the security was that my brother had assaulted a policeman, that's why he was arrested and he had to be taken to the police station.  We proceeded to the police station looking for him.  They denied his presence.  They said they had not yet arrested anyone of that description.  We decided that time was moving on and at about 3 o'clock a certain black surgeon, Mr Nbongo, arrived at the police station and he told us that he had seen a person of that description.  He had been arrested at that particular police station and he said that we should come later on when the station commander was present.  When we came back on that particular day the  station commander told us that he did not have time for us because we were very stubborn.  We were just like my brother who had been arrested at that time.  And he told me that my brother was present but we could not see him.  At that time we didn't know whether he was still alive or he was already dead.  It was late and we had to go home and sleep and come back.  We went back the following day on the 26th.  Then we were told that he had committed suicide.  He had hanged - killed himself.  We wanted to know the details surrounding his death but nobody could come forth with any information.  We were not told as to how he died.  They said they were arrested and were put in a certain cell together with eight other prisoners.  And one female said he was alone in the cell.  He was not with other detainees or prisoners.  When we enquired as to why he was arrested, they said he had sworn at the officers.  He said the were going on with "shit apartheid" and that's the insult that they said he uttered at the charge office.

MRS GCABASHE: Are you through?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's got back to your statement.  Is Constable du Toit still working?

WITNESS:   I don't know whether he's still working there because I've never gone to see him.

MRS GCABASHE: What about Sergeant Mbongwa?

WITNESS:   I think Sergeant Mbongwa has since died.

MRS GCABASHE: When they said your brother had killed himself did they ever tell you as to how he did this?

WITNESS:   There were even conflicting statements.  Another surgeon said he had actually ... (incomplete)  Sergeant Britz.  And there's another one who was not wearing uniform.  He said my brother had undone the seam of what he was  wearing and he hanged himself.  I don't remember his name but we spoke to a black policeman who told us that his name was Van Tonder.

MRS GCABASHE: What about Sergeant Britz, do you still remember as to where he was?

WITNESS:   I understand Sergeant Britz is still working in Welkom.

MRS GCABASHE: The same police station?

WITNESS:   He's working in Welkom now but he was working at Odendaalsrus before.

MRS GCABASHE: At the time was he still at Odendaalsrus?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever open a case with regard to your bother's death?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did.

MRS GCABASHE: How did it go?

WITNESS:   We were told that the matter has been referred to the Attorney-General.

MRS GCABASHE: There are certain documents from the Attorney-General and you had your own pathologist as well as your own attorney.

WITNESS:   We had an attorney.

MRS GCABASHE: What was the name of the attorney?

WITNESS:   It's  Mr Matsipe.  Mr T V Matsipe.

MRS GCABASHE: He was your attorney?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was our attorney.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you know where he's working?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know where he is presently.

MRS GCABASHE: What happened?  What did he advise you to do?

WITNESS:  He said he could not get a clear explanation on the side of the State because they were given conflicting statements as well as different statements.

MRS GCABASHE: And who was the other pathologist?

WITNESS:   We were not told.  We were told that he had gone out of he country.  He went overseas but the second doctor was Dr Olivier. Where's Dr Olivier now?   ---   Olivier was in Bloemfontein, the last time I heard of him.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever get any letters or documents from the Attorney-General?

WITNESS:   The last time the Attorney-General said he was not prepared to help us.  He was not prepared to prosecute on the case.

MRS GCABASHE: You also wrote to the government of the present day.  You wrote to the Department of Justice.

WITNESS:   Yes, they gave us a report from the magistrate as well as the Attorney-General.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you still have the reports?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do,.  I've already submitted them.

MRS GCABASHE: Let's now go back to your parents.  Even since this happened, how are the coping?

WITNESS:   My mother's got a heart problem which she got since my brother died.

MRS GCABASHE: And what about your father?

WITNESS:   I think my father is mentally disturbed from the time that y brother died.

MRS GCABASHE: Is that why he's not working?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's the reason why he's not working.

MRS GCABASHE: Are they getting any medical attention or medical help?

WITNESS:   No, they're not getting any because we have no funds but my mother does get some treatment but she only attends the doctors when we have money.

MRS GCABASHE: Have you ever heard about free medical clinic.  Hasn't this been introduced in Welkom?

WITNESS:   No, we've never heard of such because whenever she goes to the clinic she's referred to the hospital.

MRS GCABASHE: How does your father get treatment?  Is he getting any?

WITNESS:   Yes, he is going to a certain doctor, a senior doctor. Who is treating him?   ---   It's Dr van der Walt.

MRS GCABASHE: Have you ever taken your parents for counselling?

WITNESS:   He was admitted at the mental hospital at some stage.  He was taken to Bloemfontein but I'm not sure about the name of the hospital but it was in Bloemfontein.

MRS GCABASHE: We've heard your story, Jacob.  It's a very pathetic story that your brother was arrested only for one day and the following day he was dead.  In your statement you've said that they did not allow you to take the corpse from the State mortuary.

WITNESS:   They said that the matter was in the hands of the State and we could not take the corpse.  We were speaking to a Mr du Toit, a Constable du Toit.  Constable du Toit said my brother's matter is in the hands of the State and there was nothing he could do.

MRS GCABASHE: What efforts did you make in order to get your brother's body?

WITNESS:   We went to the ANC branch in Welkom and they helped us to get the corpse.

MRS GCABASHE: And on the day of the funeral is there anything that happened that was extraordinary?

WITNESS:   No, the corpse only came on the morning of the day that he was supposed to be buried and we could not conduct a night vigil.

MRS GCABASHE: You have told us your very painful story.  You said you wish that there would be an investigation conducted in regard to your bother's death as to how he died and who killed him because you do not believe that he could have killed himself.