Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-12

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: I have heard this question, because people have been asked.  What worries me is that my husband was attached to my children, very close to them.  The one twin Didane, when we could go to the docks in Robben Island, they would be stripped naked.  We would take some clothing and food for him.  Didane was close to  his father.  Even the father, when he wrote, he would say he misses Didane with his broad smile.  What I realised is that when his father got this treatment after he had been operated on the lungs, when Didane would go to the Kimberley Hospital to visit him, Didane would weep when he would go see his father.  For a year he could not do anything, he started drinking.  Didane is heavily affected.  I request that the new Government, because in 1979 we took Didane to King Edward for  psychiatric treatment.  I request that our Government, the new Government contribute in his rehabilitation.   If he could learn some form of trade, some skill. He has kleptomania.  When he gets to the hospital he just takes down curtains and everything.  He is not well.  Sometimes he would be taken to jail, he would be arrested.  They would release him,  because he would handle himself well.  Shortly after his father died in the hospital he would rob nurses, take their purses and run away.  I request that he go, that  he be taught some form of skill.  Didane is in prison at the moment, sentenced to six months for housebreaking and theft.  When he gets into jail he gets parole all the time.

ADV SANDI: Is that all you have to say Mrs Sobukwe before I hand you over to the Chairperson?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: Yes, but I also have a request that the Commission refurbish the schools in our area and also if there would be a sport field so that people are occupied in a proper way.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mrs Sobukwe.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Xundu.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  I remember the day of the burial of Comrade Sobukwe.  There were a whole lot of people.  His funeral reflect that a whole, that people supported him. There was Mangosotho Buthulezi  amongst those people. He said that he had gone to the funeral, but he was not allowed to attend it.  People complained that Buthulezi's presence at the funeral was putting down the standards of  the leadership of Sobukwe.  Do you think that this leader should not have been arrested and  should have been allowed to be amongst his people?  Do you understand my question?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: No, please repeat your question.

REV XUNDU: The presence of the people at the funeral service of your husband was an indication of the respect of the nation for the contribution your husband had given to the liberation struggle and, further, the fact that people would not allow the presence of persons who were assumed to be collaborating with that system to be present, was an indication that people did not want to compromise the struggle that your husband had waged against apartheid.  Would  you consider that to be true?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: A funeral is a funeral.  Even if you are a witch you should not be chased away from a funeral.  It is not good to chase anybody away from a funeral.  It is not a good thing.  There is no dignity in that, no honour.  No matter how cruel you are, you should not be chased away from a funeral.

REV XUNDU: In the numbers in which they were in, was an indication that the people were in solidarity with your husband in every respect, about the fact that his human rights had been abused.  So that it is pain of your pain and the nation's pain at large.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.  The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: To be married to the man of the stature of Robert Sobukwe must have, and his life, must have affected your life, your health and that of your children.  How did your life get affected by the fact that  you got married to this man, Robert Sobukwe.

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: When I met my husband he was already in the struggle.  He had come to the Victoria Hospital in Lovedale.  As nurses we did not even know about the Youth League.  We were on a strike, because we would do our jobs properly, but we were not properly treated.  We wrote down our complaints, ten of them.  One nurse was told to leave and we said we are all leaving.  We were not members of the Youth League.  They were members of the Youth League. However, the people from Fort Hare would come and help us.  We were told to go home for two months, unpaid leave.  Sobukwe had been  addressing a gathering in Queenstown.  This is from the early years when I had just gotten to know him.  Nothing came to my surprise or shock, because from the day I met him he was in the struggle and he died in the struggle.  Everything was to be expected.  I was not too grieved, in the sense that I expected these things.

CHAIRPERSON: When he was arrested or his arrest left your home fatherless and you were without a husband, you were the father of the home, as Robert Sobukwe was arrested, were your children still at school or were they working?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: My first born child was six years old.  In 1960, Melissa was six and then my second born was four years old, my twins 18 months old.  I took them to Lesotho.  I realised that as the police would not even give us a peaceful night, I realised that my children go to boarding school.  Then I took them to Lesotho from Sub B up to matric.  It was better for me, because at work I would be at peace as my children were at boarding school.  Between nine and ten the police would always come.  We tried to cheer ourselves up as the ladies and we would laugh, make a joke out of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever have time to live together as a family after Mr Sobukwe had been released from jail?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: Yes, from 1969 to 1978 we were able to do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Were your children with you at the time?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: They were still at school.

CHAIRPERSON: When Mr Robert Sobukwe was arrested how was his health?  If you could give us a picture so that we can see and compare his health before he was arrested and after he was arrested.

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: He was a teacher at Standerton.  We were staying together.  He was lecturing also at VISA.  There was not one single day where he would not go to lecture.  He was fit, never even complained of a headache, but after he left Robben Island his health had deteriorated immensely.  Before he would go to work he would exercise.  That is how fit he was.

CHAIRPERSON: My second last question, Mrs Sobukwe.  You say that Mr Sobukwe was operated on whilst in custody.  They operated on him even though you had not given them permission as his wife.  Did the police give you the name of the doctor?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: No, they never even told me that he had been operated on.  He just told me in a letter that he had been operated on.  I do not even know what they diagnosed.

CHAIRPERSON: The last question, Mrs Sobukwe, from me.  Yesterday was the last day for amnesty applications, Saturday, sorry, it was the last day for the application for amnesty.  I do not want to miss an opportunity to have somebody of your stature, if the perpetrators have applied for amnesty, what is your view about these applications?  I would just like to know.  For example, say the doctor that operated on your husband is one of the people that has applied for amnesty, according to your evidence, his life had deteriorated because of this operation.

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: Yes, even the people that were feeding him, giving him food with pieces of glass.

CHAIRPERSON: So if these perpetrators ask for amnesty, do you want, would you like them
to get amnesty?

ZONDENI VERONICA SOBUKWE: First they must divulge all.  I want to know, for example, why the doctor did not report this.