Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1976-07-19

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr van Wyk do you have parents of your own?

MR VAN WYK: Yes I do and they are here.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Both parents?

MR VAN WYK: Yes they are.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Do you mind to tell us what the occupation of your father is?

MR VAN WYK: My father is not occupied because he is retired at the moment.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Retired?

MR VAN WYK: That's right.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What was he before he retired?

MR VAN WYK: He was a superintendent, something, of Transnet.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Superintendent of Transnet?

MR VAN WYK: Ja, in Durban, that's right.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did he have his own political convictions?

MR VAN WYK: Yes he had his political convictions.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were they different from yours?

MR VAN WYK: Totally different.  We argued a lot.  I tried to make him see my objectives seeing that he was more conservative you know, like the mainstream conservative people, Afrikaners of the time I would say, and we argued a lot, which a couple of times he chased me out of the house because of it because I could just not see how he could not open his eyes and see the danger that was upon us.  Surely it was not acceptable to me and I - although I respected him and I still respect him I crossed the line because I thought it was something too important to just let it be.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Ja.  What is it that you argued most with him upon as far as politics is concerned?

MR VAN WYK: Pardon?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What is it that on which you argued most with him pertaining to politics?

MR VAN WYK: I think the basic point was he did not agree with me seeing that a military strategy would work in this country because I think he knew that I was heading that way although I did not tell him directly, and secondly I think because of the Jewish conspiracy that I thought was upon us you know.  He did not at all - he did not share that conviction with me.  I mean if I can only give you, or if I can show you the White Man's Bible you would be able to see what I am talking about. It's an absolutely fear-inspiring document, and it's seeing conspiracies around every corner and every bush and he did not share those convictions with me.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Can you then say that your father did not have much influence on you as du Plessis (Snr) had on you?

MR VAN WYK: No he did not have the same influence at all.  I think Mr du Plessis (Snr) at that stage was more of a father to me than my real father was.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And what was your mother's occupation?

MR VAN WYK: She was employed at the Receiver of Revenue at that time in Durban.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I see.  Did you sometimes have some chats with her about politics, your convictions?

MR VAN WYK: With my mother?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: H'n.

MR VAN WYK: No we didn't actually speak much about politics seeing the ways mothers are usually.  She was more I think nurturing and we had a very close emotional relationship me and my mother at that stage.  I think to such an extent that at home I was closest to my mother than actually my father.  Actually it was not the way it was supposed to be there as well.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What made you get in touch or come in contact with Mr du Plessis (Snr)?

MR VAN WYK: When?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What made you get in touch with him?

MR VAN WYK: Oh me and du Plessis were very good friends.  I think there was a ...(intervention)

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You are referring to Senior not so?

MR VAN WYK: Junior now.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Oh Junior, alright.

MR VAN WYK: Yes, I think we got it off from the first moment we met because I think we were more intellectual than the rest of our peers were at that stage.  We were more enquiring and I think we enjoyed each other's company to such an extent that you know I had to - sometime or other I ended up in his home and seeing that he was a small replica of his father you know, so I basically became a good friend with his father as well.  It was more of an easy-going friendship relationship that I enjoyed with his father that really made me go back there. And I think he also took care of my intellectual needs at that stage.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: How often did you see du Plessis (Snr)?

MR VAN WYK: It's difficult to say, sometimes it was every day, every afternoon I would perhaps go over there.  Sometimes only over weekends, I mean it's very difficult to say but it was very regularly.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Could you say that you had constant contact with him, close?

MR VAN WYK: Yes I had constant close contact with him.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: For how long were you in contact with him?

MR VAN WYK: Basically up to my leaving school and going over to Pretoria but even then I had some contact with him.  Whenever I got back to my home town and so on or whenever he came to Pretoria because his mother lives here so I had really a contact during that stage as well.  Not really to the same amount, obviously, but whenever.

JUDGE WILSON: Where was home?

MR VAN WYK: Pardon?

JUDGE WILSON: Is home Durban?

MR VAN WYK: That's right, Amanzimtoti.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And what was his occupation, du Plessis (Snr)?

MR VAN WYK: I think at that stage he was unoccupied.  He was an engineer before that here at the CSIR, but I don't know why we never spoke about why he was unemployed.  I should have asked him that question, but he tried to establish a few businesses from home as well etc, but I don't think it went too well.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: In your own knowledge did Mr du Plessis (Snr) ever have contact with your own parents?

MR VAN WYK: Ja he had contact with them a few times, not on any regular basis, but they weren't house friends, let me put it to you that way, but they spoke every now and then, yes.  And just another point to come back to your previous question Mr du Plessis (Snr) was writing at that stage a book which he intended to distribute, ja.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: What was the book about?

MR VAN WYK: Aag, it was basically about the rise and fall of civilisation etc, etc.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Sorry, Mr van Wyk was he also not a sand-washer at that stage, Mr du Plessis (Snr)?

MR VAN WYK: Was he not a?

SISI KHAMPEPE: A sand-washer at that stage?

MR VAN WYK: A sand-washer, I am sorry I don't ...(intervention)

SISI KHAMPEPE: He was involved in a business which had to do with sand.

MR VAN WYK: Sand - ja.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes.

MR VAN WYK: I think he previously was involved with that at that stage, not to my knowledge that he was involved in that business.  There was a few businesses he wanted to go into, repairing houses etc, I know he was an own-builder for instance, but I think he was previously involved with the sand business.  I am not quite sure.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now this Church of the Creator, how long were you a member thereof?

MR VAN WYK: I was never a member of the Church of the Creator.  Maybe I could elaborate on that.  There was a reason for me not becoming a member of any political organisation at that time.  I thought that in the circles I moved, which were not your normal rightwing organisations but more of your ultra rightwing organisations, they had to be infiltrated by the security police, I knew that, so I did not want to expose myself to that kind of thing, becoming known and becoming known to the security police at that stage because of my activities at that stage.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: But did this church have any influence on you?

MR VAN WYK: Yes it had its influence on me even before I stepped onto the official premises of the church in due regard to - through Mr du Plessis (Snr).  I mean that's where I basically got into contact with the Church of the Creator seeing that he was a member at that stage and a very avowed member.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Mr van Wyk the initial idea was that as you expected to find a helper at Mr le Roux's house, the idea was that she would be tied?