Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-02-10

SISI KHAMPEPE: Can I just get some clarity, Mr Wills.  Your witness has referred to a Chief who was sick at the time.  Would that be his father?  Is he making reference to his father?

MR WILLS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's correct, that's my father Lindelishle Mzimela.

MR WILLS: If we could just clarify this.  Lindelishle Mzimela, when did he die?

UNKNOWN: If I am not mistaken, it was June 1993 because he was sick.

MR WILLS: How long before his death did he nominate Booi Mzimela to be his successor?

UNKNOWN: It was a very short time, because he was sick when he said this.  He died in 1993, but he said so in 1990.  And the person who took over his duties was Booi.  In 1990
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MR WILLS	157	MR MZIMELA
Booi took over officially.

CHAIRPERSON: Booi took over officially while your father was still alive.

UNKNOWN: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?

MS THABETHE: Mr Mzimela, I want you to clarify something for the Committee.  The deceased was Chief Chancellor at Makoloko Reserve, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MS THABETHE: Your father was Chief where, where was he Chief?  In the same area?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MS THABETHE: What was the relationship between your father and the deceased?

UNKNOWN: There is an Induna and councillors in every area.  Like I said he was a chief councillor.  It is not like he was above the Chief.

MS THABETHE: ... under your father's wing.

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MS THABETHE: ... evidence by you in connection with your brother's death and in connection with the IFP/ANC wars in your areas.  But what I am not clear about is why was specifically the deceased killed in relation to everything you've said?  Can you explain that to the Committee?

UNKNOWN: As I have explained that he was the leader of the Inkatha people.  And they had a meeting and that's where they killed my brother who was also a soldier.  As I've explained this went on until my brother Bongo Nkosi was killed and some people who attended those meetings used to tell us most of those meetings were held in his place.

MS THABETHE: ... that Mkhononodaka was involved in the
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MS THABETHE	158	MR MZIMELA
killings of your brothers, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MS THABETHE: That's correct.

MS THABETHE: What proof did you have of this hearsay that Mr Gumede was die person who was involved in killing your brothers?

UNKNOWN: It is obvious and it was obvious at that time.  People who used to attend those meetings.  And in these meetings that's where decisions were taken that they should kill these ANC people, as I have already mentioned some of the meetings which were held at his house or his place.   It wasn't everyone who attended those meetings who agreed with this, so they used to come back to us and tell us who said who to kill.

MS THABETHE: You refer to meetings of the IFP that were held at Chief Gumede's place, that is the late Gumede.  As far as I know the tradition is if you are a Chief the meetings of the community are usually held at the Chief's place.  Were there such meetings that were held actually, community meetings before?

UNKNOWN: I think you are asking the right person if you are asking like that, because I know most of the meetings were held at Chief's place, at my father's place, and these meetings were different.  In the old KwaZulu Government, all the Chiefs were Inkatha members.  Mr Gumede was a Chief's councillor and the councillor has the right to call a meeting and these meetings were to ... (break in recording) ... so he like to further the aims of the organisation.

MS THABETHE: You didn't report it to the police?  You didn't try and investigate it?  You decided that this was true and you proceeded with plans to revenge.
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UNKNOWN: /...
MS THABETHE	159	MR MZIMELA

UNKNOWN: I think you are asking me, like I explained to you, all these incidents which took place at the area, no single one where the police took a stand we reported.  I even explained to you that a policeman who was guarding a Chief, one of them was taken by us to the police to explain and all the people who were implicated in the police never did a thing about it.   Police never arrested anyone.  Also in Gerald's incident, I was there, and he was killed on Saturday evening.  The next day, Sunday, we told the police,  we explained everything to the police, we gave the police e every information we had, but nothing was done.  And after the meetings people were telling us whatever decisions which were taken there and we used to tell the police all this.  And were told that there were guns which came by a Citi Golf from Ngwelizane.  One guy's name was Makothombani and he is well-known because he was a killer.  Police were told about this, nothing happened.   The following week my brother was killed.  Even though we reported before time to the police, nothing was happening.  I think even if you are lying to the police the police must prove if you are lying to them.

MS THABETHE: Was the deceased killed because he gave instructions that your brothers must be killed, or because he actually was involved in the killing?  Can you make that clarification please?

UNKNOWN: He was the one who was taking the decisions and giving the instructions and he was personally involved, he was there when he was killed.

CHAIRPERSON: This man the deceased, was your father's counsellor.

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was the one that actually killed Gerald?
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UNKNOWN: /...
CHAIRMAN	160	MR MZIMELA

UNKNOWN: As I have explained, a mob was there and Mr Gumede was there and he was a leader as well.   Makhothlom Gumede from Ngwelizane and he is Gumede's son.  He went to fetch him from Ngwelizane to do what he did.  There were many people.  Some of them I don't remember their names.

CHAIRPERSON: And in respect of the death of your other brother?

UNKNOWN: What we heard is that there was a meeting at Mr Gumede's house and a decision was taken that Bong Nkosi must be killed.  Dawuxele was there.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible)

UNKNOWN: I will be lying if I can name one person because it was a mob.  They came by night with cars.

CHAIRPERSON: ... at the time?

UNKNOWN: I wasn't there, I was at work.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?

UNKNOWN: SADF at Mtulo.

CHAIRPERSON: The decision to kill the deceased, was that your own decision?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it was mine.

CHAIRPERSON: Precisely how did you kill him?