Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-19

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, the next applicant will be George Thabang Mazete.

CHAIRPERSON: What language do you speak?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Sotho Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any objection to taking the oath?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: What is your question Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any objection to taking the oath?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: What are your full names?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: George Thabang Mazete.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mazete, you have an affidavit in front of you which is also before the Committee.  Do you confirm that the affidavit which is before you was made by yourself and you abide by its contents?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: That is correct Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I will go to paragraph 6 of the affidavit.
	Mr Mazete, I'll read the second line, the third line of paragraph 6:
"I confirm that I drew up the map of the Wesselsbron Supermarket at the request of comrade Bhani.  I also confirm that the arms were left in my place after the operation, though I did not know when they left them.  I then realised after I heard of the attack, that the map I drew up and the arms that were dropped at my place on the day of the attack, were used in the operation at Wesselsbron"
I want you Mr Mazete, to take the Committee starting when you started drawing up the map, your role you played, the circumstances which led you to drawing the map of the Wesselsbron Supermarket.

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: As a member of the task force within the PAC, many things which we were taught as members of the task force is that we should know to do reconnaissance and that is why I was able to draw the map.  I think that is all.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee the reason why you drew up this map?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: To add on what I already said, as a member of the task force in every operation or in any work which you're supposed to do as a member of the task force which the organisation wanted to do, that is why I was able to do the map for them, of the supermarket.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you answer the question once again.  Why did you draw up this map?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: It is because I was instructed by comrade Bhani.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you know the reason why - did he tell you the reason why he instructed you to draw up the map?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you ask him: "Why are you saying I must draw up the map of Wesselsbron Supermarket, yet you know it" - I take it that you were all in Wesselsbron.  Didn't you ask him: "Why should I draw up a map when you know the supermarket"?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, I did not.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Did you think you knew why?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: After that I thought that he wanted to do something about the map, even if I did not know exactly what.

CHAIRPERSON: Well about the map or about the Wesselsbron Supermarket?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: About the map.

MR MBANDAZAYO: After the - let me ask you this way first, did you know that the Wesselsbron Supermarket is to be attacked?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, I did not.

MR MBANDAZAYO: I understand that the weapons, according to your affidavit, is that they dropped weapons after the incident at Wesselsbron Supermarket.  Did you know that when they were dropping the weapons that they were coming from attacking Wesselsbron Supermarket?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, I did not know.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did they tell you the reason why they were dropping weapons at your place?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: They did not tell me, they just request me that I should put those weapons in my house.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee at what stage you realised that the map and the weapons were used at Wesselsbron?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: After they were arrested and I was arrested, when we were in the police station, that is when I started to know.  That is when I started to know that those things were used for the attack.

MR MBANDAZAYO: At what stage did you hear about the news of the attack at the Wesselsbron Supermarket?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: On a Sunday the following day.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you not, after you heard the news, think that this map and the weapons which were dropped were used in the attack, were the ones which were used in the attack?  Did you not suspect that or think about that?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, I did suspect that they were used for this attack.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you became sure after the arrest, that indeed they were used in the attack?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, if there are no further questions I will proceed to paragraph 7.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I have a few questions that I think in the interest of your client we might get.
	You have told us that comrade Bhani instructed you to draw up this map.

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was comrade Bhani a member of any organisation that you knew of?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: He was a member of the PAC and APLA.

CHAIRPERSON: And who dropped the weapons at your house?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: That is Bhani, comrade Bhani.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I will proceed to paragraph 7 as I indicated Mr Chairman.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, do you know - was it discussed with you later, after the attack, how the map which you drew up was of assistance to the people who attacked the supermarket?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, I was not.

MR MALAN: May I just ask you, the map of the supermarket that you drew up, was that a map of the supermarket inside or was it the location of the supermarket on the streets?  What was this map consisting of?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: The inside of the supermarket.

MR MALAN: When did he ask you to draw this?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: If I remember well I think it was around March or towards the end of March or maybe the beginning of April, towards the end of April.

MR MALAN: So it was long before the attack, is that what you are saying?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, not that much.  It's not that long.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, almost three months.

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: It might be even in May because it was not a long time.  I don't remember well but I don't think it was such a long time, the duration between the drawing of the map and the attack.

MR MALAN: Did comrade Bhani know the supermarket then?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: I don't know, but he asked me to draw that map.  I don't know whether he knew the supermarket.

MR MALAN: Did you assist you in drawing up the map?  Did you do it in his presence in other words?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, he was present.

MR MALAN: Did he discuss with you and give you directions while you were drawing the map?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No.

MR MALAN: He didn't comment at all, is that what you are saying?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, he was quiet whilst I was drawing the map.

MR MALAN: Do you know whether he had been into that supermarket himself before?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, I don't know.

MR MALAN: Did he not tell you?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: He did not.

MR MALAN: Before you drew up the map did you go into the supermarket to check?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: You mean myself or him?

MR MALAN: No, yourself.

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: No, Sir.

MR MALAN: On what basis did you know the supermarket that well?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: I knew it well because I'm a resident there in the nearby township.

MR MALAN: Do you yourself often buy at the supermarket or did you then?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, mostly.

MR MALAN: Regularly?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, many times.

MR MALAN: And other comrades of yours, did they buy there?

GEORGE THABANG MAZETE: Yes, because they were residents there in Monyake.

MR MALAN: So the supermarket was frequented also by APLA and PAC supporters?