Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay, that is very important.  Secondly you speak about your son being a leader in the youth movement and in politics in your statement.  Can you just tell us a little bit about that.  Did he hold any position or what kind of leadership role did he play?

MARY NOMSA MASEKO: He was doing his matric.  I don't know of any political involvement.

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay, thank you, Mrs Maseko, that is all.

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask - did you do a statement?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: I will ask Mr Wynand Malan to lead you in taking an oath.
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GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: (sworn states)

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you make a statement to the TRC?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you want to confirm what has just been said now by Mrs Maseko about what was said to you?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: Yes, I want to confirm that. On the 25th May 1986 we were studying, it was on the 25th and at half past seven he took me halfway because I wanted to go home and we separated in the middle of the field and I said to him man we have to set an appointment for tomorrow so that we can finish our business and the next morning when I went back to him I was told that he was at Denelton hospital because he was shot and I wanted to see him and I took initiatives to go to Denelton hospital and on our arrival we were told that he was in the theatre, we should wait for a few minutes and we really waited for those minutes and thereafter he was released from the theatre and he told me, he whispered this, he said Makawe, Madota, Mtimunya shot at me, they were driving a white Skyline with tinted windows.  I called his mother in Germiston, I said Mom Vincent is at the hospital and the same day she came home and they asked who the mother was and we were told that he passed away.  Myself and his brother, who is since deceased, went to the police station to lay charges and thereafter a funeral was arranged and everything was completed.

RUSSELL ALLY: Yes, but what actually happened to that (indistinct).

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: Yes, we went to lay charges at the police station.  We were at the Kwagga police station to lay these charges and we were then told that he had already died.

RUSSELL ALLY: And these charges that you laid, did anything
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ever happen, was it followed up, were you contacted, asked to make a statement?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: They said they will give us calls or letters but this thing ended up nowhere until today.

RUSSELL ALLY: So you were never called back by the police after you laid the charges?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: No, we were not called at all.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did you ever take this up with lawyers or any other organisation?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: After this incident I left this area but I think his mother went to Komhlanga but I don't know what happened thereafter.

RUSSELL ALLY: So is this the first time that you were speaking about this incident now since the time that you went to the police station to lay charges, since 1986, is it the first time?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: Yes, this is my first time to say this openly because I was the victim all the time.  We were harassed at all times.  Even at school I was harassed.

RUSSELL ALLY: Could you just tell us a little bit about Vincent's political activities.  What kind of role did he play at school?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: We were going to bury Mr Ntuli because he was killed by the Mbokoto, they got entry into his house through the ceiling and we were on our way to the cemetery and the police arrived in Hippos and they dispersed us with tear-gas.

RUSSELL ALLY: But Vincent himself, was he involved in any student structures, in any organisations or political organisations, the UDF or anything like that?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: We were the students representative council.  We
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were doing our activities underground.

RUSSELL ALLY: So I don't want to put words into your mouth but are you saying that you were actually involved in a struggle against the Mbokoto, that you saw the Mbokoto as ...

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: We were not fighting Mbokoto but we were against the rules like going to bed at nine o'clock because we wanted to study, we were doing our matric and we had to stay until late and Mbokoto would disturb us every time when we were at school.  They would throw stones at the windows.  We were not fighting them, we just wanted to know the reasons for them to give us rules like going to bed at nine o'clock and we wanted to know the origin of Mbokoto because as a businessman you have to concentrate on business, not involve yourself in school issues.  We wanted to know their involvement really.

RUSSELL ALLY: So are you saying that both you and Vincent were actually - are you saying you were known to Mbokoto that they knew of your involvement and they knew you as students and Vincent in particular was he known to Mbokoto members?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: These people did not target specific people, they would target everybody.  When they see you in a group they would attack you.  When you are from work in the evening they would attack you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say that before Vincent died he actually mentioned those names to you which you gave us now.  How did he know these people?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: He whispered these names.  He described the white Skyline with tinted windows.  Before he died the Mbokoto members arrived, it was at about four o'clock.  I wanted to escape through the window, there was a white policeman carrying a gun and when I looked around I saw two white
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kombi's with white Skyline with tinted windows.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sorry let's just - it is very important that we go over these events that we can understand clearly what you are saying.   You and Vincent were walking together.  You then went your separate ways.  You went off home you say  and he then turned around to go back to his place.  Or are you saying that you were actually close when the shooting took place?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: We were studying and sometimes we would study at his home and at times we would study where I was boarding.  And every time after studying we had to go different ways and every time we would make an appointment that man we are meeting tomorrow at nine.  So we were studying and at half past seven he took me halfway and that is where we separated.  I didn't know when I heard the gunshot that he was the person being shot at because after hearing this gunshot I ran because it wasn't safe at all.

RUSSELL ALLY: And is that when you saw these cars that you are speaking about, the Skyline and these kombi's?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: No.  I was going to my home, I only heard that it was a white Skyline.  I heard this information from the deceased.

RUSSELL ALLY: You didn't see the car yourself.  This is what  was told to you by (indistinct) at the hospital.

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: I already mentioned that before he was shot I saw this white Skyline with tinted windows.  That was long before he was shot.

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay, no I wasn't sure what you were saying.  And did you have any idea then who this Skyline belonged to?  Who the owner of it was.

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: I don't want to tell you lies.  I only know that
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it was a white Skyline with tinted windows and you wouldn't be in a position to see who was inside.

RUSSELL ALLY: And after this incident did you ever make any attempts to find out who owned such a car, the Skyline with the tinted windows?

GREGORY MADODA AMIGO: There was no time because my friend was no more and I was also disturbed and I had to go back to Daveyton, my original home, and I came back for my exams and the schools were closed and I went back home.