Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-05

CHAIRPERSON: But you had gone on to say something that implicated the organisation?  Now if you have recourse to page 6, if you have recourse to page 6, you had said something about the IFP leadership as being the persons who approved of the killing that you were applying for amnesty for?  Do you see that?  It appears on paragraph 11(a), you speak of IFP leadership you put them in there.  Then at paragraph 11(b) you then put the name of Mrs Umbuasi, was that not exposing your organisation that you were seeking to protect?

MONDLI NGXONGO: In my application there is some truth in it and some lies.

CHAIRPERSON: And in explaining the objective which you sought to achieve you then give a reason that Mr Teledi was smuggling arms which were killing IFP members and therefore an order was given?  That is not protecting your organisation?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now why should you lie about such an important and unimportant aspect like having to disclose that you knew why you had to go to Nelspruit and that an order had been given to you by Mrs Umbuasi when in any event in your application form you do include the name of Mrs Umbuasi and you do state that the order for the killing of Mr Teledi came from the IFP leadership?

MONDLI NGXONGO: When I was making this application I was just making it on my own, I didn't have any assistance from someone.

CHAIRPERSON: I think I will leave that aspect.  In your evidence yesterday you stated that you received a call from Mr Mkwena after Mr Umviani's death in which he was still expressing a need for Mr Teledi to be killed as the mission remained incomplete.  Do you recall saying that?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Then travelled to Empangeni to convey this message to Mrs Umbuasi.  Why did you have to go to Mr Mbambo and not to Mrs Umbuasi directly?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Most of the time when I was going to Mrs Umbuasi I used to go to Mr Mbambo's place first.  I didn't have a reason for this but it was just a usual thing to me, I used to do so to study at Mr Mbambo's place first and then go to Mrs Umbuasi.

CHAIRPERSON: Why was it necessary for you to discuss that telephone conversation with Mr Mbambo?  He wasn't your commander at that stage was he?

MONDLI NGXONGO: No he wasn't but as a person who used to know everything it was necessary for him to know this information and plus he went there before to Mr Teledi's place or to Bushbuck Ridge.

CHAIRPERSON: Why was it necessary for him to have known about this conversation that had been made by Mr Mkwena to you and to nobody else?

MONDLI NGXONGO: He was a hit squad member therefore I just informed him and since he knew about this particular operation I wanted to put him in the picture.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge did Mr Mkwena know Mr Mbambo?

MONDLI NGXONGO: This is what I believed because Mr Mbambo, Hlongwane and Mr Umviani went to Bushbuck Ridge before.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you know that Mr Mbambo, Hlongwane and the deceased Mr Umviani had been to Bushbuck Ridge before?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes I had that knowledge before.

CHAIRPERSON: When you got the telephone call from Mr Mkwena did you ask him why he was calling you about this mission?

MONDLI NGXONGO: No I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: And to your knowledge did Mr Mkwena know Mrs Umbuasi?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it not strange that Mr Mkwena should be calling you an ordinary member of the hit squad and not call Mrs Umbuasi who was the leader in Natal?

MONDLI NGXONGO: I wouldn't know that, I wouldn't know why he decided to call me, I just took this as a serious matter since he had told me and then I took this forward to Empangeni.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you not call Mrs Umbuasi, why did you have to drive to Mrs Umbuasi's place, that's quite far from where you were?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you have to drive and not call her?

MONDLI NGXONGO: I wanted to see Mr Mbambo as well because there was going to be a funeral on Saturday, funeral of one member of the hit squad and also to discuss about transport.  If he didn't have transport I was going to take him from Empangeni to Durban and then when we went to see Mrs Umbuasi she actually told us not to go back to Durban to go to Bushbuck Ridge.

CHAIRPERSON: You also gave evidence yesterday that when you left Empangeni your first port of call was next to a police station in Nelspruit in a township known as Khanyamazani?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo's evidence is not to that effect.  Mr Mbambo said you actually went to Khanyamazani to a house in Khanyamazani?

MONDLI NGXONGO: He's telling the truth.  I didn't mention this because I thought it wasn't important like I didn't mention stopping at garages, filling stations, I just stick on something which was relevant to the whole operation.

CHAIRPERSON: But I think I remember confirming this portion of your evidence yesterday in order to understand it properly and you remain resolved that your first port of call was at the police station and that's where you met Mr Mkwena?

MONDLI NGXONGO: The reason I can mention this house it's because I thought it wasn't important because it's not relevant to the whole operation but I'm not denying that we went to a certain house but it wasn't before - we went there before the time which we were supposed to meet Mr Mkwena.  We arrived earlier and the house which we went it's not far from the police station where we were supposed to meet Mr Mkwena.

CHAIRPERSON: Now are you therefore correcting your evidence that you did not meet Mr Mkwena next to the police station in Nelspruit but that you met Mr Mkwena in a house in Nelspruit in Khanyamazani?

MONDLI NGXONGO: We met him at the police station.  Before we went to the police station we went to this house which is not far from the police station.

CHAIRPERSON: And when you were at the police station did you meet Mr Mkwena or not?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes he arrived.

CHAIRPERSON: So your evidence would be that indeed the first meeting you had with Mr Mkwena was outside the police station in Khanyamazani and not in a house in Khanyamazani?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And that Mr Mbambo would be making a mistake if he says that the first meeting was in that house and not at the police station, outside the police station?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That's a mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: After Mr Umviani had passed away who became your commander?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Mbambo only became my commander on that operation only, on this trip but he wasn't my commander.

CHAIRPERSON: My question is after Mr Umviani had died who became the commander of your unit?

MONDLI NGXONGO: There was no commander after Umviani passed away.

CHAIRPERSON: And did your unit participate in any activities immediately after Mr Umviani's death?

MONDLI NGXONGO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: And how many members did your unit consist of?

MONDLI NGXONGO: We were five.

CHAIRPERSON: Would that include Mr Umviani?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there any person who was senior, who was the immediate senior after Mr Umviani in your unit?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct, there was.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Mr Teledi aware of the structure of your unit?  Sorry, Mr Mkwena, William Mkwena?

MONDLI NGXONGO: ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: Was he aware of the structure of your hit squad unit in Durban?

MONDLI NGXONGO: No I don't know.  He used to contact Umviani.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he aware of the special relationship you had with Mr Umviani?  Was Mr Mkwena aware of the special relationship you shared with Mr Umviani?  You evidence is that you and Mr Umviani were quite close friends.

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Oosthuizen, emanating from the questions from the panel, do you wish to re-examine?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: I've got no re-examination Madame Chair, thank you.