Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-17

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.  And Mr Maseko, what was the position of Baba Mahladla in the ANC?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: He was the ANC Chairperson at Table Mountain.

MR PANDAY: And would you happen to know how he was able to get hold of all these firearms?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: No, I do not know how and where he got hold of them.  I would just receive them from him and he would give them to me to protect the community.

MR PANDAY: And Mr Maseko, was there any money which changed hands for the receiving of these weapons?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: No.

MR PANDAY: So is it correct to assume that these weapons were solely provided for the protection of the organisation?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Maseko, after the attack on Thulane Mkhize's residence, did you become aware that any persons were injured as a result of the attack?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes I did see that some people were injured when we launched the attack because there were two persons who were in a vehicle.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko after the attack and your retreating, what became of the weapons that were used in this attack?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: They remained with us in case they counter attacked so that we could protect ourselves.

MR PANDAY: And were the weapons kept in one specific place or did each person keep the weapon with them?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: They were kept in one place.

MR PANDAY: Where about in this one place were the weapons kept?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: If we were not using them, we would normally hide them, maybe bury them under the ground or hide them in caves.

MR PANDAY: And Mr Maseko, who was in charge of all of these weapons when they were not in use?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I was in charge.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, would you happen to know what has become of these weapons since your arrest or at the time when you were arrested?  Do you know what became of these weapons?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Mbongeni Nthuli removed them or took them from me after the war was over, Mbongeni Nthuli and Celo Makai.

MR PANDAY: And when was this war over?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: If I remember correctly it was in 1992.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, by launching this attack on Thulane Mkhize, did you achieve or benefit from this attack?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: I never benefited or gained anything from the organisation.

MR PANDAY: Okay.  But in terms of the organisation and the people by this attack, was anything achieved?  Were the goals of the organisation achieved?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, I would say there were objectives that were achieved.

MR PANDAY: And these objectives were the objectives of the organisation, the ANC?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Mr Maseko, in a nutshell, to put before the Committee, is it correct to assume that the sole reason for the attack on Thulane Mkhize who was the IFP Chairman at the time, was purely for protecting and ensuring that the organisation, the ANC was being protected, would that be a correct assumption?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Panday.  Mr Mapoma, questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson.

MR MAPOMA: Mr Maseko, Mr Mkhize is here, I think you have seen him.  Mr Ndlalose is also here.  Mr Ngcobo is not here, he's a policeman in kwaMakutha.  Those who are here are saying that in principle they are not opposed to your application for amnesty, but they want you to
disclose as full and relevant as possible relating to this incident.  Do you understand that?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, I do.  What I can tell them is that if they need to ask anything from me, they should feel free to do so.

MR MAPOMA: Yes.  Now, you, if I understand you well, you said you got instructions from Zitha to launch the attack.  Is that correct?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Mr Mathe.

MR MAPOMA: Oh yes, Mathe yes, sorry.  Now where did he give you those instructions?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: At that time we were at Mapumulo.  That is in ...(indistinct)

MR MAPOMA: Were you alone when these instructions were given?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: There were two of us.

MR MAPOMA: Who else was there when the instructions were given?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Sipho Shelembe.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just repeat that Ms Interpreter a little slower.

INTERPRETER: Sipho Shelembe.

CHAIRPERSON: Shelembe?

INTERPRETER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Sorry, Mr Mapoma.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Sir.  And when he gave you the instructions, did you formulate a plan with him as to how are you going to attack?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, we did.

MR MAPOMA: What was the plan?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: We planned on how to attack and on when to launch the attack at Mr Mkhize's home.

MR MAPOMA: Yes, that's what I want to know.  Please tell the Committee, how was the plan?  They are here as well, Mr Ndlalose and Mr Mkhize, they want to know.

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: We left at about 2 a.m. so that we could get closer to his home.

MR MAPOMA: Sorry, just there.  When you left, how many were you?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: There were six of us and the others were not armed, so the six were the ones who were armed.

MR MAPOMA: Now, the six of you who were armed, were you armed with guns, all of you?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That's correct.

MR MAPOMA: Now if I understand you correctly, when you described the weapons that were there in your possession, they are five.  Can you explain this?  You said, if I remember well, it was one AK47, one R1, one 308, one 303 and one shotgun.

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: There were two 303's.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it's two 303's.

MR MAPOMA: Sorry, thank you.  The others who did not have the firearms were five, if I understand?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: That's correct.

MR MAPOMA: Now what was the plan?  Was the plan to go and kill Mr Mkhize, Thulane Mkhize?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, ...(indistinct) that attacked him.  We felt that if we could get him then everything else would fall into place.

MR MAPOMA: Yes and do I understand that you were aware that he was under police guard?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: Yes, we did.

MR MAPOMA: Now these policemen, were they South African police or KwaZulu police who were keeping guard Mr Mkhize?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: ...police.

MR MAPOMA: Yes.  Now proceed then.  You said it was 11 of you, you left at 2.00 a.m. all armed as a group, what happened?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: At about 5.00 - 6.00 in the morning, at that time he was still at home before he transported some people to work.  We had planned to launch the attack at that time before he left for work.  His car was parked on the premises.  We divided ourselves into three, the six who were armed with firearms.  I approached the vehicle in front.  At that time there was music playing on the radio in the vehicle.  I think I fired two shots towards the vehicle but I didn't see anyone inside.  Because there was no-one inside I took cover and did not proceed to shoot anymore.
	The other comrades approached from the direction where his vehicle would drive off and the others approached from below the house.  On hearing shots, some people whom we could not see, fired towards us.  At the time I could not see Mr Mkhize because there were gunshots very close to where we were, but we could not identify the source of that gunfire.  Because of that situation, the exchange of fire, we could not then proceed into Mr Mkhize's yard.  We remained outside the house.

MR MAPOMA: Now when you shot at the motor vehicle, did you observe who was inside the motor vehicle?

ALBERT SBANGELISO MASEKO: When I shot at the car it was to frighten whoever was inside, so that they would not climb out because our intention was to get hold of Mr Mkhize.