Amnesty Hearings — Tzaneen — 1999-06-30

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, Mr Chairperson, I amafraid I still have to argue that point on the basis that if we are to believethe applicants, then the reason why they went to the farm was to kill the occupantsof the farm and as Mr Swanepoel testified, there was actually nothing that stoppedthem from actually killing him.  From that I deduct that it was possibly notthe motivation of these assailants to actually kill these people and that iswhy I deduct that there must have been another purpose to the attack.  I amnot prepared to argue this point much further and I leave it to the discretionof the Committee.
        May I justadd another few factors which I consider to be pointers in the support of mytheory that they in fact went there to rob the place namely the fact that atthis stage the Committee have to accept that there is absolutely no basis onwhich they identified the target being a political target.  Mr Swanepoel testifiedthat he had actually no political affiliations, that he was definitely not amember of the AWB and that it was actually his livelihood to trade with blackpersons.  He definitely did not hate them.  If that motivation is then negated,it only leaves one other possibility and that is the fact that he was a farmer,a chicken farmer and I would suggest that it was then common knowledge thathe would have guns and a large amount of cash on the farm. 
        Secondly,Mr Swanepoel's evidence was quite direct on the point that they directed himto the bedroom where the safe was located.  He did not walk in that directionvoluntarily.  This points to the indication that the assailants, the applicants,had prior knowledge of where the guns and the cash would be kept in that house. I want to step off from that specific point and come to my learned friend'sargument that there was no material discrepancies between the versions of theapplicants.  Unfortunately Mr Chairman, I cannot accept that suggestion.  Iam of the opinion that at least for Mr Thobejane's part, I got the impressionthat he tried to make the case against him, or his involvement in that, in factas little as possible.  He fabricated a gun to be in the possession of the farmerwhen he walked out of the house.  I think there can be little doubt that therewas no gun at that stage.  He tried to put as much distance between himselfand the person who actually killed Mrs Swanepoel, he said he was preoccupiedby trying to shoot Mr Swanepoel in the circumstances, but had to concede thatit actually took place in the very same room, there was no different runningaway and shooting.  The two assailants were next to each other at the entranceof that specific main bedroom, that is the evidence of Mr Swanepoel and again,Mr Swanepoel testified, there was absolutely no reason why they did not actuallycarry out their, or why they couldn't carry out their mission, namely to shootthe both of them.  
        To sum uptherefore, I would suggest that there was in fact attempts from the witness,specifically Mr Thobejane, not to put the real evidence before this forum, thathe in fact in that sense, failed to make a full disclosure.  Also referringto the involvement of a certain Jameson Baloyi which he admitted at a very latestage, and under cross-examination to be one of the persons harbouring theseassailants.

SISI KHAMPEPE: What has that to do with regardto the offences for which they are seeking amnesty, the harbouring by Mr JamesonBaloyi?  He did not participate in the murder of Mrs Swanepoel,  nor the attemptedmurder of Mr Swanepoel?

MR VAN RENSBERG: Well, at the time he wasat least harbouring and hiding these assailants which was an offence at thetime.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, he merely gave them accommodation. To them, that was not an offence?

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, thank you Mr Chairperson. The last aspect I want to address you on is the point that was raised earlierduring my cross-examination with Mr Thobejane and that is the fact that he consequentlyomitted to bring the fact that he was in fact convicted for attempted robbery,under the attention, or to the attention of this Committee.  If we look at hisapplication, and specifically paragraph 9(a) thereof, it was required of theapplicant to furnish sufficient particulars of the acts, omissions or offencesassociated with a political objective in respect of which amnesty is soughtand at (i) he then stipulated murder, attempted murder, possession of explosives,possession of arms, possession of ammunition, the attempted robbery is specificallyexcluded there from.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Isn't it included under "etc"?

CHAIRPERSON: No, it is not in 9.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Are you dealing with 9(a)? Yes?

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, from 9(a), obviouslythere is no mention of "etc".  If we can turn to the specific paragraphthat you are referring to, it is paragraph 12(e), the question is "if prosecutionfollowed, state (e) the offence in respect of which found guilty and sentenced,if applicable".  There he listed murder, attempted murder, possession ofammunition, possession of machine guns, possession of explosives, possessionof pistol, etc.  I am firmly of the belief Mr Chairperson, that that etc, canin no way cover him for his, or can be interpreted to include his applicationfor amnesty for attempted robbery as well.

CHAIRPERSON: But he doesn't apply for attemptedrobbery?

SISI KHAMPEPE: He is not applying.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, that is so.

CHAIRPERSON: I mean and when you questionedhim on it, he said that well, there wasn't any robbery, they never had any intentionetc, but my impression is well, he hasn't applied for it.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes, that is exactly thepoint I am trying to make.  If I understand the member of the Committee's questioncorrectly, it can perhaps be read, the "etc" can be interpreted toinclude armed robbery and it is that question that I am addressing now.

SISI KHAMPEPE: That has nothing to do withthe acts for which amnesty is being sought for by the applicant, Mr Thobejane.

MR VAN RENSBERG: Yes.  To close off then thepoint that I am trying to make is that at least for the count of attempted robbery,Mr Thobejane has not made application for amnesty and it is therefore not withinthe powers of this Committee to grant him amnesty for that specific offence. Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Van Rensberg.  MsMtanga?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, I will leave thismatter in your hands.

CHAIRPERSON: Any reply Mr Mbandazayo?