Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-03

UNKNOWN: That was in some in the minds of many like, you know, my dad, that was there with him and others, elderly people, but his followers are phasing strongly in early, I mean, early April 1984 and people then started having meetings, having social gatherings and those social gatherings, you know, things of national importance like these were discussed and so on.
 I must say that it has been said here that ANC was involved in a way and so on and that they kept on saying that ANC was involved.  ANC, as far as my knowledge goes, was never directly and physically involved.  Of course, we did have people around here, UDF and so on.  People that we use to have, you know, meetings with, but they were not directly involved.  They were involved morally because when we had this meeting on the 14th, after that meeting of the 14th and after people have made their voice against independence through a certain gentlemen, a Mr Masong, who was one of the newspaper people.  We were congratulated by, you know, I want to demonstrate that we were supported morally.  We were congratulated by the office or the President, the then President of the ANC, Oliver Tambo, that the stance that we have taken as a KwaNdebele nation make 
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them proud and makes them confident that the system of 
homelands independence was coming to an end.

CHAIRPERSON: Tom, any questions?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Prince, I am sorry.  You have been grilled for so long.  What is your work presently?

UNKNOWN: Can you repeat yourself?

THOMAS MANTHATA: What is your work presently?  In short what are you doing?

UNKNOWN: Okay, unfortunately, and that is very hurting that I am not working.  I am a pensioner and a pensioner, you know, from the apartheid regime, not from the present Government.  Unfortunately, I had to be forsaken by my own comrades.  What for, I do not know.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay.  In fact, mine is not going to be a question so much.  You have shown so much interest and rightly so with people who went missing, with people who lost limbs, you know, were maimed and people who physcologically, you know, depressed and so on and you would want that, you know, ought to be done for these people.  I am saying the way we operate, the TRC, is that let this people be assisted to make statements.  It is only from their statements that we can be able to begin to grapple with how to meet their requests.  Can we be assisted in that direction?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I have already started.  I have made arrangements for statement takers, you know, to come to my area to come and take statements and we have been trying to encourage people, you know, to come forward, but the biggest problem here is the fact that people, like the Chairman said, people are not yet sure of the relationship between Amandabele, that side and the Sotho speaking people their
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side.  Now the location of the TRC sitting now does not give them courage to come forward and appear before the Commission here.  So I want to also, you know, to make a plea to the Commission that it must look into the possibility of coming into our area.  I believe there a lot violations, atrocities and so on would then come forward.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, in response to that, it will be borne in mind that when first it was discussed that we are going to have the Moutse hearings, it caused great concern among the KwaNdebele people and we finally reached an agreement with the KwaNdebele leadership who, on their own and of their own, decided that let be hearings be here in Moutse, but that be as it may, we are likely to have hearings later next year in KwaNdebele itself.  So this should help the people, but at the same time we are saying we are going out for a drive for statements, that does not have to wait for the hearings in that area because when you talk about the problems that you still have with Imbokhoto, more especially that impede on reconciliation, we would love the Imbokhoto people to understand that anything that was occasioned them during the years of conflict, should as much as possible be brought before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
 We are still mindful of the fact that some may still want other channels, but only when they have been here to us and they can stop to be a burden to your efforts for reconciliation then can be the matter be handled wisely, I think.  Thank you.  No further questions.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.
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