Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

MRPETER SOLLER: Is it correct that subsequently after a lengthy trial, you were found guilty by His Lordship Mr Justice Solomon and you were sentenced to death by hanging for this crime?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Prior to the criminal trial before his Lordship Mr Justice Solomon - Mr Mbatha, I now this hurts you a lot and you must be the only person in this room who has had the misfortune of being sentenced to death by hanging, prior to that, had you been asked to make confessions by the South African Police?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Prior to the date on which you were sentenced to death by the Judge, had you been asked to make confessions by members of the South African Police?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: I'm talking about the stage at which you were being investigated - of course investigation may not stop there, what happened during the investigations prior to you appearing in a Supreme Court?  Were you interrogated?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry, I really have to ask that you should - you've had nearly an hour.

MRPETER SOLLER: Mr Commissioner, may I just ask the witness then - I don't like stopping a witness from asking, I shouldn't do it but may just ask him to curtail his answers and I will curtail my questions and get to the point.  It's very difficult for me to tell a witness to stop telling his story Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: (No English translation)

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: Okay.

MRPETER SOLLER: Thank you Mr Commissioner.
 Mr Mbatha, were you tortured at all by the police?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Would you explain to the Commission why you were tortured and what the police wanted you to say?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Mr Mbatha, did you at all get an opportunity to mention Mrs Mandela?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: What did you explain to them?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: And are you saying that nobody was prepared to take notice of and reference you made to Mrs Mandela?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Did that persist right up until your trial, that you tried to tell people about your involvement with Mrs Mandela but you were stonewalled each time?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: I want to ask you one last question.  Did Mrs Mandela ever have the right on your behalf to communicate with the Department of Prisons about the manner in which you were being treated in prison?  Please answer that question.

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: In 1985 - I'll show you now, Mrs Mandela's lawyers addressed a letter to the Commissioner of prisons pointing out that you were being assaulted in prison, did you authorise Mrs Mandela or her lawyers to write that letter for you?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Can you explain to the Commission how it possibly could have been that on the 25th of May ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Soller, you don't have to hold the microphone, the further you are from it the better because you keep having an explosion.

MRPETER SOLLER: Thank you Mr Commissioner.
 Can you explain how it is possible for Doctor Serete to have written a letter to the Commissioner of Police on the 25th of August - the 25th of June 1995, stating as follows and I quote:  - please Mrs Interpreter, tell me if I'm going too fast.
"Furthermore, it has come to our client's knowledge that Mr Zakhele Mbatha, presently serving sentence at Pretoria Central Prison and who is kept at Medium C, Block B, was severely assaulted by the police who were forcing him to sign a statement which implicates our client in several criminal offences and he was also promised a substantial cash amount, amnesty and a new identity document if he signs this statement"
Do you know anything about this letter being written?  How could Mrs Mandela's lawyers have known that you were being assaulted?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: You had nothing to do with her whilst you were in prison and since you were in prison?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: The last two questions Mr Chairperson, I promise you Mr Chairperson.
 You didn't apply for amnesty did you Mr Mbatha?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Would you tell the panel why not?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: I think you must be a bit more specific on that answer if the Chairperson pleases.
 Were there certain questions you couldn't answer?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: You mean you couldn't give a true answer to the questions which were being asked to you because of the fact that the people who were talking to you didn't seem to know the background of what had happened?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: I think you have to ask your last question.

MRPETER SOLLER: As it pleases you Mr Chairperson.
 Mr Mbatha, do you intend staying in prison for the rest of your life or do you intend doing what the law allows - to facilitate your early release from prison?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: Mr Chairperson, professionally I promised my client that I would offer him one thing before he concluded his evidence, he wanted to say something to you Mr Chairperson.
 Mr Mbatha, please listen to me slowly.  When I consulted with you, you asked me if you would be given an opportunity to say something to Doctor Asvat's family, is that correct?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

MRPETER SOLLER: I didn't discuss with you what it was you wanted to say in detail, would you please use this opportunity? - it's your last one Mr Mbatha.

CHAIRPERSON: (No English translation)

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (No English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: (No English translation)
Thank you very much.

MRPETER SOLLER: Mr Chairman, perhaps a five minutes adjournment from both parties point of view would suffice.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, can we have a five minute adjournment?
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: There are too many people who don't seem to understand English, settle down please, thank you.
 Mr Mbatha please?
We are waiting for Hanif Vally who has disappeared into thin air.
 Mr Dlamini who was going to be a witness we were due to have taken has been detained in hospital overnight because according to the doctor we believe he's suffering from dehydration. 
 Mr Hanif Vally?

MR VALLY: Thank you Archbishop.

CHAIRPERSON: If you are able to help us to cover up some of our schedule, I would be deeply, deeply grateful.  If for instance you are able to do in 10 minutes what you would have done in 15, you would get a bonus in your salary.

MR VALLY: Thank you Archbishop.
 Mr Mbatha, at the trial for which you were charged for the murder of Doctor Asvat, you were also charged and found guilty of robbery six months before, is that true?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: Could you please repeat your question.

MR VALLY: The same trial when you were charged and convicted of the murder of Doctor Asvat, you were charged and convicted of robbery of a Mr Ephraim Ndlalose at a shop in the district of Ngoma, is that true?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: That is true, I was also convicted with regard to that.

MR VALLY: And your co-accused in that matter was the same person who was your co-accused in the murder of Doctor Asvat?

ZAKHELE CYRIL MBATHA: No, I did not work with anyone, I was just convicted with him but I did not know as to how he got involved.