Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:  Yes, I do, but unfortunately Mr Mhlongo said I mustn't do anything before I contact him, but it so happened that one day I decided to leave the place.  I took all my belongings which I could at that time and I hired a car.  I took my children and went away because I was afraid.  But Mr Mhlongo told me I mustn't go without contacting him before doing anything, so I didn't contact him, I just left the place.  It happened after I left that I had to come back to Mpumalanga to visit the offices, administration offices.  I did went to see Mr Mhlongo.  He said to me, "Look, I told you you mustn't go before you contact me."  I just told him that I left, and I told him exactly where I was staying at the moment, and I directed him to my place.  I thought maybe he will be investigating, there will be something that he will like to give me, and from there nothing happened.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you.  We'll try to investigate and find out as to what happened, and also to find out who were the perpetrators and then we'll come back to you to tell you exactly what happened.  And we will also try to contact Mr Mhlongo.  I also like to find out, before your husband died Mrs Mncwabe died, who was an IFP member, and the Committee asked your husband to come and bury him, but your husband refused, saying that he doesn't want to be involved with any people in politics.

WITNESS:   But he didn't say that to the person who come to ask him.  He told them that he had some other business to do so he couldn't come to bury this Mrs Mncwabe.

MR DLAMINI: Again in your neighbour, the Khanyile family, someone died and they were UDF.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Yes, their sons were UDF members.

MR DLAMINI: The picture that we get from your explanation was that your husband was a person who stood for truth and he was a true Christian, and he didn't betray anyone.  This means that the Committee have lost a great man.  This is a person you should all be proud of.  Maybe you can explain to us that after all this psychological harassment did you ever go for treatment to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, people who can help you to survive?

WITNESS:   People who did help me were the Christians in our church.  One of them was Mr Khumalo.  He donated the amount of R1 000,00 from the church.  People from Mpumalanga were crying with us but they couldn't attend the funeral for some other reasons.  At the funeral there were only a few people.  Most of them were our family churchgoers.  About the community, I just heard that many people were crying and they wished to come, but they couldn't, and they were worried because they couldn't attend his funeral for the person whom they used to be friends.  So I had to leave, and they didn't see me from there.

MR DLAMINI: What about your health?  Are you healthy?  We know you are strong, but we have to find out the after effects of what has happened.

WITNESS:   When you look at me I look healthy.  I do all things, I work for myself, but psychologically I am very, very sick.  When I am alone maybe I go to the toilet, I will sit there and cry alone and think, and this is painful for me.  I am so worried because there was not even a court case about this matter.  It just ended up there and I don't know what's happening. And this haunts me a lot.

MR DLAMINI: You said you had grandchildren when this incident happened.

WITNESS:   Yes, they were there.  At that time I didn't have any child who was working, they were all at school, and things became difficult, very, very difficult.  I didn't have a home, I didn't have a father, I didn't have a husband, I didn't have a place to stay, and I have to go to some relatives at Umgababa to stay.

MR DLAMINI: At the present moment how do you survive?  Did you get anything from his workplace?

WITNESS:   No, we only get some few cents.

MR DLAMINI: And how do you make ends meet?

WITNESS:   I had to stand up, try to find some part-time jobs, and even my children they have to go out and look for jobs in order for us to survive.  So they started teaching, as I have already explained.  I used to pay for their school fees.  They had to go to colleges and I have to pay.  This worried me a lot because I was always telling myself if my husband was around he was going to help me somehow or some way.  But it was so difficult because now I was alone, I have to stand by myself and do all the things for my children.  And I also have to try to find a home for them.

MR DLAMINI: At Umgababa where you are staying did you find a place where you could build your own house?

WITNESS:   Yes, we find a place and we built a house.

MR DLAMINI: Mrs Ziqubu, we like to thank you, and we would like to say that we appreciate the fact that you have been strong even giving us the evidence, and we would like to tell you that this matter will be investigated and they will have to find out exactly what happened in court.  And we also listened to all your requests and wishes.  What we can say at the moment is that we will take all this to our leader, the President Mandela himself.  We cannot make much promises, but we'll see later what's going to happen.

MR DLAMINI:  Mrs Ziqubu, your matter is painful, but I would like to find out - from your statement there's something that I didn't understand about the burning of the house.  Was your house burnt at the day in which they killed your husband?

WITNESS:   No, they burned the house in 1987, October the 15th 1987.

MR DLAMINI: You are trying to say that the house was burnt before his death?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was burnt in 1987, and we were in the house at that time, and we were lucky because he worked so hard as the house was burning.  The house was burning all the rooms, the dining-room and the bedrooms were burning.  My husband stood up, he worked so hard trying to extinguish the fire, and also trying to sort of like help those who were trapped in the fire, because also the Khanyile house was burning, we have to go and help them.  And also one of our sisters-in-law we had to help her out of the burning house.  Because on that same day they also burned the Khanyile house with petrol bombs, and we also helped them to extinguish the fire.  We managed to contain the fire and they didn't burn the whole house.  At the very same night the Khanyile family were sitting at my place with their children.  We stayed with them, and Mr Khanyile was working night shift sometimes, but at that time he was working a day shift and he was with us.  And he slept on the sofa, and my husband slept at the bedroom, and all the other Khanyile family kids and my children slept with me.  However, I took some of the children because I was afraid and took them to their relatives, because I was afraid they might even come and burn our house.  We also thought of running away, but we decided we should stay.  The Khanyile family came to us for shelter because we are their neighbours, and if they had problems they usually came to us for help.  So they had to sleep at our home.

MR DLAMINI: Those people who burnt the house in 1987, did you ever find out who they were?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't.  This happened at night at about 11 o'clock, and they ran away after that.

MR DLAMINI: Did you ever reported the matter to the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, we reported the matter the next morning, and we also made a statement.  However, the police came that night to take a statement.  At that time while we were busy trying to extinguish the fires we saw the red car passing, so my husband did go to Mlaba's house, and they saw this car which passed by our place in Mlaba's place, So they didn't even try to help us, those people who were in the car, they just passed.

MR DLAMINI: I am trying to correct my record here.  During the time while the house was on fire you saw the red van, and also at the time of the death of your husband you saw the red car?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.