Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR JANSEN: In 1973 you were in the then Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, and more specific, Bendura area, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Could you just briefly tell the Committee in what capacity you were there?

WITNESS:   I was at Bendura in

MR JANSEN: /charge of

MR JANSEN: charge of four dog handlers, and we did tracking of any incident, land mine explosions or any other incident, where insurgents were involved in.  It is there that I first assisted the Rhodesian Police in getting rid of freedom fighters that were killed in that war by driving them a little - a few miles out of Bendura on the road into the bush, digging a shallow grave, lining it with plastic, put branches in it, and up to seven corpses at a time of insurgents that were killed were then put into this grave, petrol poured over them, and they were set alight up to the stage where their head, feet and hands were burned so that they couldn't be identified, and they were then covered in that shallow grave.

MR JANSEN: Can you tell the Committee what your ... (intervention)

MR DE JAGER: Mr Jansen.

MR JANSEN: Sorry?

MR DE JAGER: Sorry.  Are you leading evidence in accordance with, say, volume 1, page 13 or 14?  Can you refer us, because that would greatly assist us, then we need not write down everything.

MR JANSEN: Yes.

WILSON J: You've just got to page 15.

MR JANSEN: Yes.  Mr Chairman, unfortunately I did not prepare my evidence in accordance exactly with the chronology as is found in Evidence Book No 1.  Evidence Book No 1 does seem to have - does seem to follow the same type of chronology.  These are obviously round about the -the present evidence would be as from page 13, paragraph 3.

CHAIRPERSON: You must just conduct your case in the way
	/that's most
that's most convenient to you and your client.

MR JANSEN: Yes.  And, Mr Chairman, the questions that I now ask will relate to paragraph 3.7.6 on page 17.  Mr Coetzee, could you briefly tell the Committee what your activities involved during the Soweto uprisings of 1976?

WITNESS:   Mr Chairman, as an instructor in the Police College I had to go there with some of my junior personnel and a lot of students, and we were based in John Vorster Square in the gymnasium, where we slept and ate.  And we had to visit key points, which involved the bus depot, the mortuary in Hillbrow, and five other points.  I know that - I think that they called it the Bantu Commissioner's Office in those days, or something like that, and the Magistrate's Court, etcetera.

MR JANSEN: And during that time what observations did you make that related to the uprising?

WITNESS:   I beg your pardon, Sir?

MR JANSEN: What observations at any of these key points did you make?

WITNESS:   Well, one of the worst ones was of course the mortuary, where corpses were, more than 200 at a time, stacked all over the place of young people that was killed in the unrest situation, and family members queuing outside, crying and trying to identify their beloved ones, or find out whether they were in fact at that mortuary and to identify them.

MR JANSEN: At that time what was your personal feelings or attitude towards, for instance, what you saw at the mortuary?

WITNESS:   A question of that they got what they deserved.  They were involved in riots, they were - clashed with the police, and as a result of that was shot because they didn't want to listen.

MR JANSEN: /In 1975

MR JANSEN: In 1975 you did an officer's course, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, I now turn to page 20 of Book 1, paragraph 4.2.  Were you lectured on the ANC during that officer's course?

WITNESS:   I was, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Can you tell the Committee what that comprised of?

WITNESS:   It comprised of a Brigadier Niels du Plooy from Security Police Headquarters, which visited us with a so-called "terr" in those days, whom they called "Bra Moss."  It is one of the first ANC cadres that they caught, I believe.  And they would come to the officer's course to lecture us with publications of - revolutionary publications, which were not allowed for the eyes of the world ever, and trunks - two police trunks full of guns, AK47s, land mines, limpet mines, whatever, and Moss would then demonstrate it to us.  We were also lectured in detail by Brigadier Niels du Plooy on terrorism and communism and what went with it.

MR JANSEN: Were you impressed by these lectures?

WITNESS:   We were absolutely, all of us, hanging to his lips, Mr Chairman.  Usually there was a lot of tomfoolery around when lecturers of other departments came to give us lectures on certain subjects for periods up to 40 minutes at a time, whereas when Brigadier Niels du Plooy arrived he was there for half a day and you could hear a pin drop, and it was absolute and amazing.  You could sense the atmosphere.  He would start off as - he would come over as a big Christian and start off in a soft voice, and work us up into a frenzy, and tell us how these vicious terrorists and blacks in the Eastern Cape has cut up nuns who served them so dedicatedly in education and health purposes and

MR JANSEN: /other

MR JANSEN: other trainings.

MR JANSEN: Did you believe in the political system of apartheid at the time?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did, unfortunately, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Now, in January 1977 you became the commander of the border post at Oshoek, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: What was the ordinary or normal activities of the border post unit?

WITNESS:   Passport control, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Was there any specific relationship between the border post command, or border post commands in general, and the Security Police?

WITNESS:   That's correct, there was, Mr Chairman, in that they all fell under the regional office Security Police office in the area, and Oshoek border between Swaziland and South Africa, where I was based, fell under the regional commander, Security Police, Eastern Transvaal, which was based in Middelburg, Transvaal, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: How did it come about that you were appointed to the border post command?

WITNESS:   Late in 1976, whilst based at Volksrust Police Station as station commander, Mr Chairman, I was approached by the Regional Commander Security, Eastern Transvaal, Brigadier van der Hoven, at that time a colonel, and the Ermelo Security Branch commander, Captain Nick van Rensburg at the Volksrust Police Station, and I had a choice to either go to Oshikathi or Oshoek Border Post, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: Did you at any time at that stage apply to go to the Security Police?

WITNESS:   No, I did not, Mr Chairman.

MR JANSEN: According to you what was the general practice?  Did you apply, or were you hand picked, as it were?

MR JANSEN: /You could

MR JANSEN: You could apply for admission to the Security Police, upon which a vetting process would take place, but in the majority of cases it was - you were selected by superiors to come to the Security Police.

MR JANSEN: And do you have any idea why you were chosen?

WITNESS:  Well, I suppose because I was a successful policeman, Mr Chairman.  I was successful in curbing crime at Volksrust.  I was elected during my student years as best student of the year in the police station, and I was promoted through the ranks from constable to officer in five years, Mr Chairman.  I can only guess.  I am not ... (incomplete)

MR JANSEN: Other than your normal duties at the Oshoek Border Post were you involved in any other activities of the Security Police?

WITNESS:   I 90% became involved in the activities of the Security Police, and more specifically Ermelo branch under Captain Nick van Rensburg, and the regional branch, as I already said, Middelburg, Transvaal, Mr Chairman.