Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-13

ADV SANDI: Such matters where a mere 7 year old dies, according to your knowledge, would these cases be taken to court, where a policeman would be accused?  Did you hear of any similar cases going before the court of law?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

ADV SANDI: You do not know about any cases whereby there is a trial perhaps?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.  The government of the day had no intentions, it was a wicked government to this day.

ADV SANDI: Do you mean that the courts of law would have no contribution into such incidents?

MATEYISI NDONDO: No.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndondo, is Mkhululi a first name or a surname?

MATEYISI NDONDO: I don't know.  I don't know whether it is a surname, but some say it is his surname.  I don't know his first name.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Would you be able to identify him?

MATEYISI NDONDO: It was the first time I saw him when he committed this atrocity in 1985, that was the last time I saw him.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there people that know him in the community?

MATEYISI NDONDO: Yes, there are.  People that saw him commit this crime.  There is a ward that was named after my child.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ndondo.  The intentions of this Commission are to bring reconciliation into the country.
 The hope is that after the life of the Commission, that we set a path whereby there is reconciliation so that we can be united.  However, when I look at your tears, the wounds that you sustained, the pain, this is what we listen to each and every day in these hearings.
 It is not easy for a man of your stature to weep in public like this.  It shows depth of the wounds and the pain.  This brings doubt into my heart, whether there is going to be reconciliation in this country because of the depth of the atrocities committed.
 For now, thank you.  We promise that even though we cannot heal the wound in your heart, we will endeavour to reveal the truth as to the death of your son and the perpetrator who Mkhululi is and what he is all about.  Perhaps in that sense a cleansing and a healing in your heart can come to pass.
 The request that you've made to us, we will take it forward.  For now thank you Mr Ndondo, you may step down.
 Mr Redpath?

MR REDPATH: Mr Chairman, my response with regard to this witness' evidence is the same as the previous responses, however, our investigations to date have produced some documents which are relevant to the Committee's investigation.
 I have here a copy of the post-mortem report, compiled by Dr Basil Wingreen on the 15th of November 1985.  The death register number is 779/85.
 A glance at this report would answer the one question posed by Committee member Crichton that the deceased was 1,26m tall, which makes him under five feet and he weight approximately 40 pounds.
 I would hand that document in to the Committee.  In regard to the issue as to whether there was any official legal inquiry into the death of the deceased, our enquiries to date showed that there was indeed an inquest.
 I would stress at this stage, in view of some of the questions posed by members of the Committee to the previous witness, that an enquiry by way of inquest can take one of two forms.  It can either be a formal inquest where witnesses are called to testify under oath in public and are subject to cross-examination from anyone who has an interest in the proceedings, or it could be informal.  In which event after the police investigation the documents are simply submitted to the Magistrate concerned of the area where the deceased died and he would behind closed doors, hold an informal inquest which amounts to him reading the document.  However, it is usual in a case such as this that the Magistrate would at least request members of the family to be present.
 I have photocopies of the relevant page excerpt of the police register which shows that there was an inquest held, it doesn't specify whether it was formal or informal, but we are continuing to investigate.
 Once again, I must reaffirm our commitment to be of assistance to the Committee and not to be obstructive to the Committee.  That is not the purpose of our request to allow us to present our case after proper investigation from our side in all the instances in which I appear.
 I have nothing further Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Redpath, thank you very much, but perhaps you can assist us and probably assist Mr Ndondo with some information that may begin to allow him to relate to his grief by identifying whether Mkhululi is the first name or a surname?

MR REDPATH: It is a surname.

CHAIRPERSON: And the first name of the person?

MR REDPATH: I am instructed that it is a Mr Gareth Mkhululi.  He is identified as an alleged perpetrator, but I may state at this stage that our investigation shows at this stage, that Gareth Mkhululi might well not be the person.
 Notwithstanding the alleged  confession to Mr Ndondo, we are fairly certain that we will be able to show to the Commission, who did do the shooting.  Whether the shooting was justified or unjustified in the circumstances, I don't know, I cannot express a comment.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Redpath.  Again we appreciate your offer of assistance to the Commission.
 You have sat through the proceedings, part of the proceedings of today and I am sure as a human being you have been touched as we all have been touched by the depth of pain that is still in the hearts of those who have lost loved ones.

MR REDPATH: Correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And how discovering the truth may begin the process of that healing.

MR REDPATH: We all have to ...

CHAIRPERSON: We are not interested in passing judgement really on those things, but to gain the truth and present it to the family and say there it is - begin to relate to it and begin to accept what has happened.
 We appreciate your assistance very much, thank you sir.

MR REDPATH: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  May I please be excused?

CHAIRPERSON: Please do.

MR REDPATH: And may I also express my appreciation for the obvious manner in which we have been treated here today.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Redpath.