Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-14

TRC: be a formidable vehicle to forge towards that end. We want to express our thanks to
Mr Tommy Matthee chairman of the local ANC Paarl branch.
Mr Lloyd Fortuin
Ms Marietjie  Victor for some last minute help with regard to the Statement.
However, we accept full responsibility - myself -  for any inaccuracies and misstatements and other views in this statement that I'm making.  Requests on behalf of the Paarl community to the

TRC: 1. That you help those of our people who are entitled to reparation
for losses that had  been sustained to receive such.
2.   That there be investigations instituted into unsolved political 
cases of gross human rights violations and that calls for amnesty 
by political prisoners still incarcerated be looked into for possible 
validation.
3.   That the Paarl community be assisted to erect a worthy 
monument in memory of those who died for the struggle or who 
have suffered persecution and gross human rights violations in 
the furtherance of peace, justice and freedom.  I thank you.

WENDY ORR: Thank you very much Rev Maart, I have no questions to ask.  But I like to hand you over to the chairperson.  Thank you very much, thank you.  Anyone here who would like questions for clarification, Denzil.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Denzil Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you chairperson.  Rev Maart in regard to the decade of the 80's which saw the mobilization for the masses and the establishment of various community organizations and structures.
Now in that era what was the situation in regard to inter-organizational strive and conflict.  Was that one of the  strategies that was adopted by the authorities to deal with this growing phenomenon of community organizations and structures?

UNKNOWN: Ja, I believe that the state had embarked upon a strategy of a - of bringing people against one another.  What do you call it again - divide and rule - words run away from you when you sit here.  Divide and rule, and I think this was basically the strategy that was employed by the state.  And they were very successfully in doing this because at the moment as a result divide and rule strategies we are still divided.  Many organizations  within the townships are still at log a heads with one another.  Is that true?

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you, that - that might be one of the challenges that's facing the community in terms of reconciliation, I should imagine.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I think so.  How we do it, I don't know where we start.   For one thing the group aria a act has been responsible for further - you know - furthering this thing of division, but we certainly have to - will have to work at ways and means of getting together our town.
The mayor who was speaking at a function over the weekend and he was appealing to us all that we put our heads together,  put our hands together to work to bring our town together.  I think lots is been done in the recent past, in the municipal elections where co-operation and working together has been become more and more real, yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Reverend, thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

<UNKNOWN>: Rev Maart I just want to, first of all, say that there seems to be a common pattern what ever there was conflict in so-called townships. That the police almost took the side of other radical groups like CASEY or AZAPO in confronting so-called UDF and this caused a lot of pain and cause those groups  [indistinct]  themselves.
What processes of reconciliation which were both specially in those arias where Mbekweni  there was conflict between AZAPO, AZANU against UDF with police collaborating with those groups.  Are there any suggestions that you far made, that you want to make to the Commission?

UNKNOWN: That's a very difficult one because it is clear that the regime had infiltrated townships, had infiltrated community organizations and have been responsible for conflict of this nature that you described. I wouldn't want to venture this morning how we going to overcome this problem but I think there's a certain amount of co-operation has been established already.
People are beginning to forgive and to forget, to work together towards bringing  healing.  I believe that Mbekweni, today, they're actually coming back to the period where they used to be - one undivided community.  I believe that there is a greater co-operation between people than - than where was during the time of the infiltration of the regime into their area.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very-very much, I  [indistinct] very well.  Your particular roll as a committee leader when it was not popular.  When churches were about the only places or mosques and so one where our people has space to be able to express themselves and we want to give thanks to God for the leadership that people like yourselves gave in a time and we are glad that you are continuing  in the posed freedom period, to go on with your people so that you consolidate that freedom, thank you.

UNKNOWN: Can I just thank you to, Arch Bishop, for the time when you came in the townships and  [indistinct] of burning.  Yourself and Allen Boesak and other - others like yourself came to Paarl in the heat of things.  When the church was surrounded by Caspers, that you came and you spoke to us and you there  [indistinct] us out, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we should be a mutual admiration society.