Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Is there anything that you wanted to add?   Mncebisi?
REV.

M XUNDU: Thank you your Grace. You have made a very wonderful presentation.   There are just one or two things which for clarity, one would like to hear from   your, amplifying what you have said. It does seem as if in the time we are addressing,   that is from 1960 to 1994, you concentrated mostly on spiritual upliftment without   properly addressing environment and what was happening. Sometimes it is said   that silence could be interpreted to be collusion. What tacit example can you   give of your faith protesting or witnessing in order to change the mindset of   those who were oppressing, to convert them towards being good and non-discriminatory?

MR Z ZITANDELE: Mr Chairman, as indicated in the presentation, there was no   visible or tangible effort that was explicit, except teaching the fellow brethren   in South Africa about the significance of unity and the elimination of prejudice.   That was only the message we believed could be touching the hearts of the people   that believed in God, that apartheid was one of the issues that were not condoned   in the eyes of God. 
REV.

M XUNDU: What concrete contributions to you think you could make for people   outside your faith, not necessarily in ...[inaudible] but in witnessing of the   values which you hold so dear, in order that they may themselves begin to see   your values and begin to in solidarity with you all, that they may also change   like in the period that we're talking about (1960 to 1994)?

MR Z ZITANDELE: Mr Chairman, the contribution that the Bahais believe in is   the change of the mindset to each and every citizen of South Africa in believing   that the economic problems of this country have got their solutions in the spiritual   aspect, whereby we believe that the main focus should now be in education and   training of our children towards a value, the life and the values that would   lead to the prosperity of the country. And we believe that the base for that   is the fear of God.
REV.

M XUNDU: You have said in your submission that you were not popular with   people either from the oppressed or from the side of the perpetrator for the   mere fact that you were not able to witness to your objection of racial prejudice   which was taking place at the time. Are you able just to amplify and explain   more on that, because we are here saying that all of us have a degree of guilt   for not having stood up in the name of God to oppose the forces of apartheid   and therefore asking for God's grace and forgiveness. After you have heard some   of the people talking, how do you feel about that? Do you feel that there is   nothing that your church owes in explaining to that position?

MR Z ZITANDELE: Again, as the adherents of the teachings of Bahaula, the sense   of guilt does not strike the religion because we felt that the practise of being   together with the blacks and whites was supposed to draw animosity from both   sides, blacks and whites, because this was no in line with the laws or the legitimated   apartheid. But the Bahai faith believes that it has got to obey the laws of   the ruling government, and the only way that the Bahais can help with, is to   influence the consciousness of the individuals to believe and also have an insight   of the injustices that need to be eliminated. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Bongani Finca?
REV.

BONGANI FINCA: In the submissions that have come before the commission yesterday,   some of them mainly submissions that came last week in the business hearing   in Johannesburg, there was a focus on the question of economic justice, or economic   reconciliation, very fundamental to the process of reconciliation in this country.   But there has been no spelling out of how this can be achieved and you have   just mentioned something in your submission, which has not before been asked,   and I'm sorry if I'm misquoting you, but one of your principles, one of your   doctrines teaches avoidance of excesses of wealth and poverty. I am interested   to hear more on that. How do you define excesses? For instance I don't want   excesses of poverty, that I know. Excesses of wealth when does wealth become   excessive? I say so, because we are in a country where those who have find it   completely impossible to share with those who do not have, because they believe   that they don't have enough. And those who do not have grab, grab, grab and   never stop, because I don't know about wealthwe all just want to accumulate   it and have it and it never stops. How does your religion teach avoidance of   excess?

MR Z ZITANDELE: Mr Chairman, our religion emphasises a reduction of gaps between   the extreme poverty and excess wealth. In this case, the practical method is   that those that have, need to assist in the realisation of closing the gaps   between themselves and the have-nots. And how this could be done we say training   and education becomes fundamental because if the contributions from the "havens"   can be directed towards creation of refined skills with those that do not have,   then the economy can be boosted. We have no strict measurement that wealth becomes   excessive and poverty becomes extreme, but we are saying absolute poverty needs   to be discouraged and excessive wealth needs also to be discouraged where an   attempt is made to bridge the gap, but the gap will remain but by trying to   reduce that gap, we will have to make contributions to the well-being of those   that are poor. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce?

MS JOYCE SEROKE: In your submission you said that you presented your teachings   on unity and oneness of humankind to President Botha and President De Klerk,   and then later on from guidance from your World Centre in Israel, you had to   now centre your teachings around blacks and coloureds. 
I have two questions here. Did those teachings have any impact on those presidents?   And did you feel that when there was no impact on all, then you had to concentrate   on the blacks and coloureds?

MR Z ZITANDELE: Thank you Mr Chair. With regard to the submissions made to   the presidents, these were meant to create awareness of other dimensions that   could be considered when administering the apartheid system in the country,   which we were asked to present. Then the measure of the success or the impact   of the submissions to the presidents, one may say they might have been on long   term, they have not been having any effect at all, but we didn't have any ways   of measuring. To the question of concentrating on coloureds and blacks, these   were the part of the society that were being affected negatively by the system   of the country and we were meant to give a hope that there is a measure of hope   that is lying ahead through the teachings of Bahaula, that God is the ultimate   answer. That's all, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We are very grateful to you for having come and I reiterate the   expression of sympathy and condolence that my colleague has given to you. Thank   you very much, you may stand down.
It's tea time now and I gather that you are re-invited to tea, all of you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. We hand over to you.