Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

MEMBER OF PANEL: We think that the gentleman who can also UMTATA HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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tell us, because you were also there in the Botha Sigcau offices, perhaps you can also tell us what happened.  We also want to thank you for the dignity you have shown and the respect that you have shown during the time that the witness has been testifying.  Thank you.
 Mr Vhana, could you please tell us who you are and on which rank were you at the time in the Army and how you met Craig Duli and your relationship with Duly.  Before you give us the details of what happened in the Botha Sigcau offices.

MR VHANA: With the permission of the Commission, I am Samuel Vhana, I am from Mphebatho(?).  I was never a soldier.  I used to work in the Transkei Development Corporation.  There was a friction between the TDC and myself, because of certain situations at work.  Then I was expelled from work, through what was called a disciplinary action. When I complained about this, it was all in vain.   In short, in my efforts trying to go up and down, trying to go back to work, I asked Gen Holomisa - in fact he was trying to ask everyone he said anyone who knows anything about corruption must come forward.  So I did, I had my documents.  Documents which exposed all this corruption that was happening in this corporation.  It looked like nobody had taken care of this.  They simply ignored it.  It looked like the military government was not looking for the truth, they just took over the government, because they wanted to do away with the corruption.
 That is when I met Col Craig Duli.  He said my case must started over again, but then it was found that I was never guilty right from the very first.  Again, I met Lieut Craig Duli. I asked him a lot of questions, especially about them, but it looked like there was a certain 
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misunderstanding.  He did say to me please, Madiba - that is my clan name - don't go on investigating these things, I am going to fix all this; I am going to talk with these other men, then we will fix everything for you.
 By fixing this, he meant bringing democracy back to the people.  It is because I said to him the reason why you took over the government from Stella Sigcau is because you said it is because Stella Sigcau said to you from the self-defence department, you were corrupt. The other reason why you took Stella Sigcau from the government is because the Pondos were killed by Lieut-Colo Vakashiyo - who is dead now - together with his brother.  They were on the house, on the roof the house.
 During that time there was a friction between the Pondos of one village and the other village.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sorry, sorry, a little slower, Madiba.  Let's go back to the issue at hand. What we are talking about today is Craig Duli.  Let's talk about the day, this particular day you were all at Botha Sigcau. When he was getting out of Botha Sigcau did you see him alive?  This is the human rights violation we are trying to investigate here today.  Have you any evidence connected to the human rights violation of Craig, please Madiba, let's go back to the issue at hand.

MR VHANA: With your permission, Commission, in the morning of the 22nd of November 1990, I was entering Botha Sigcau with Lieut-Col Duli and the late Davis.  Lieut Craig Duli's injuries were on the left eye.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sorry, were you together when you were going into Botha Sigcau?  Were you preparing to do the coup?

MR VHANA: That's correct.  At the time we were going to do
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the coup, as the military government.  When we got in ...

CHAIRPERSON: Please audience, please.  Sometimes people give certain evidence that you don't quite like, but when they are here before the Commission they have all the rights to say freely what they need to say.  Now our job is to take that evidence, investigate it and then get to the truth about it.
 Yesterday you behaved yourselves so well. I was also hoping that you were going to do the same today. It may happen that later today that we might hear - sometimes you would want to laugh about something a person is saying.  Could you please now try to control yourself.  Give him a chance to finish off his statement, and that the person who is leading the witness, please guide the witness into the real issue at hand.  Thank you.
 Please continue, Sir.

MR VHANA: It is now on the third occasion, around three pm, when I said stop, I was shouting, trying to stop the shooting that was happening at the time.  On this occasion now it stopped, there was this fire.  Somebody from outside asked who are you. I said I am Samuel Vhana.  I was then called. So then I went. It was Lieut-Col Derek Mkwebe.
 When I got closer I was asked where is this Col Craig Duli.  I said here is inside, in the toilet.  I was told okay, I must stand where I was, it was next to the lifts.   Lieut Craig Duli approached me. He was with two soldiers.  Now that was because he was limping, he was injured.  He got shot on the right thigh.  When we got the lifts, we got in and we went down.  On our way out of the lifts, I was on the front. I took a couple of steps and then I waited for him again, because he was limping.  We parted. Just when were 
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about to get to the steps outside, then I was led into the boot of another car.  Then we went to the camp.
 That's when I was locked up.  I saw Col Craig Duli on the following day, where there was a media. That time Lieut Craig Duli was already dead.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Now the injury you only know about on Col Duli is only the one on his leg?

MR VHANA: When we were getting out of Bordersdal, he was only injured on the left eye and he was also injured on the thigh of his right leg, and this wound on the right leg was a bullet shot.  The injury of the eye, he was injured by a tube from the mortar.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sir, is that the end of your story according to the injuries of Craig Duli?

MR VHANA: Yes, Sir.

MEMBER OF PANEL: I hand over to you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Topsi,  I would like to ask you, this Genl Mbulava you are talking about, is he the one who died later?

NONTOBEKO DULI: Yes, that is so.

CHAIRPERSON: When he was telling you this, did he say there was any investigation so that he can find out who are these people who shot your husband?

NONTOBEKO DULI: He never said to me there was any investigation that he was doing.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any investigation that you think that should have happened by the police or even by the lieutenant-generals?

NONTOBEKO DULI: No, I didn't even ask for any investigations.

CHAIRPERSON: But Genl Mbulava died during the time when the military government was even over. You never even went back to Gen Mbulava or you didn't even have trust in the
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government?

NONTOBEKO DULI: No, I didn't go back to him because one of the things that hurt me the most was people were very afraid to associate themselves with this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Pumpla Gobodo?

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Dobsi, I would like to ask you about your children.  How old are they?

NONTOBEKO DULI: Our first-born was born in 1981, the other one is 1974.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: How are they, how are they affected by the death of their father?

NONTOBEKO DULI: It really affected them.  Especially the one who was writing the exams at the time.  They used to be quite scared, especially when there would be thunder storms.  During this period we were told that we were going to be bombed.  Now this thought used to make them very scared, it really affected them.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: I remember that you also told us that when you see a crowd of people, you also get scared, remembering the way your husband died. It looks like you also were affected by his death.