Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-26

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, at the risk of being out of order, and if I am so, please rule me so. I have now 
heard for the first time of an application for apparently Section 29 for notices to be given to certain people 
of which some are some of my clients, I am not certain how the Committee deals with such an application?

UNKNOWN: The Committee will take into account the fact that these people have applied - a number 
of them have themselves applied for amnesty - it is a factor that the Committee is going to take into 
account.

UNKNOWN: Yes.  I was just wondering - we would have liked to have made some submissions but we 
are obviously - we might be out of order you having reserved your judgement at this point in time. I just 
wanted to place that on record 
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

UNKNOWN: 173

<UNKNOWN>: that we were unaware, completely unaware of this application.

UNKNOWN: Well, if you are unaware it is unfortunate that that was so but the Amnesty Committee 
itself could not have warned your beforehand that this was going to happen. An application was made on 
Monday and if you haven't a copy of that, you should get it from Mr Currin and study it, but my remarks 
that I have made about when we will give our decision and so on, stands.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I understand that, that is why I said I would probably be out of order, Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

MR CURRIN: May I, just for the record, state that the surname is MORUDU, M-O-R-U-D-U, and not 
Morudi as stated  in the documentation.

SCHEEPERS MORUDU: (sworn duly states)

MR CURRIN: Mr Morudu what is your date of birth?

MR MORUDU: 6th June 1969.

MR CURRIN: In what standard at school were you in when this incident occurred?

MR MORUDU: I was doing Std. 8.

UNKNOWN: Was it Std. 8 or Form 8?

MR MORUDU: Std. 8.

MR CURRIN: Where were you at school?

MR MORUDU: Letlahbile High School.

MR CURRIN: Could you tell the Committee a little bit about your involvement in student affairs or 
student politics?

MR MORUDU: In 1986 I was elected the Deputy Chairperson of the Mamelodi Students Congress.

MR CURRIN: I see. What were the activities of the Mamelodi PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

MR CURRIN: 174

S MORUDU: Students' Congress, what was the nature of those activities?

MR MORUDU: The most aim was to get the students back to class and organise them and like fighting for 
the things like free books for students.

MR CURRIN: Were you a member of any political organisation at that stage?

MR MORUDU: No.

MR CURRIN: You have heard evidence that you were involved in bombings, petrol bombings and other 
acts of violence, what is your response to that evidence?

MR MORUDU: That is untrue. I was never involved in any violent acts.

MR CURRIN: I see. You have also heard evidence that you were severally tortured, the version of the 
torture that you heard before the Committee, is that a correct version, would you like to add anything to 
that?

MR MORUDU: What I would like to add on that is that they didn't use that shocking device of them on 
my hands or my legs, it was used on my private parts.

MR CURRIN: Is there anything else that you would like to add with regard to the actual torture?

MR MORUDU: What I can just add is that these people before interrogating me they first started by 
assaulting me severely without asking any questions.

MR CURRIN: Did they tell you what the purpose of the assault and interrogation was?

MR MORUDU: No.

MR CURRIN: What did they say to you during or after the torture?

MR MORUDU: What they told me to do was to write down the names of the members of my Executive 
on a piece of paper.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

MR CURRIN: 174

MR CURRIN: Did you eventually do that?

MR MORUDU: Yes. I was under duress. I had to do it.

MR CURRIN: I see. Did they threaten you at all?

MR MORUDU: Yes, they threatened me, they swore at me and they were talking a lot of things to me.

MR CURRIN: What did they say when they threatened you, what did they threatened that they would do?

MR MORUDU: They threatened to kill me if I don't cooperate with them.

MR CURRIN: And you then became an informer?

MR MORUDU: That is correct.

MR CURRIN: How do you feel about that and what has that done to you as a person and to your life, will 
you just share that with the Committee please.

MR MORUDU: This act ruined my life and I could not walk safe in the township and each and every 
person suspected me of (...indistinct) and even today I knew that my conscience was clear, I wouldn't have 
collaborated with them and they knew that for a fact when they interrogated me and that is why they 
brought in Mr Mamasela to come and talk to me - whereby I even refused.  And when one of them left the 
office, Joe Mamasela told me in no uncertain terms that I am going to die if I don't work with them.

UNKNOWN: Just repeat that, I didn't hear Mamasela told you what?

MR MORUDU: That van Vuuren and Hechter and together with him, they are going to kill me if I do not 
work with them. That was their main intention if I do not work with them.

MR CURRIN: You probably heard the evidence of I think it was Warrant Officer Van Vuuren, he said 
that if you did not work with them they probably would have killed you?
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

GAUTENG: PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

MR MORUDU: Yes, I heard that.

MR CURRIN: How do you feel about amnesty?

MR MORUDU: In this matter which is - which they are asking for amnesty on this matter of which I am 
involved, I would ask this Committee not to give them amnesty because they didn't even come to me 
before they saw me on Monday and they didn't even make attempts of coming to me myself as a person 
and ask for forgiveness.

MR CURRIN: This morning, were you not approached by one of the applicants?

MR MORUDU: This morning I was approached by van Vuuren and I think his approach came after Mr 
Currin asked me whether he came to me yesterday or the day before yesterday and asked for forgiveness, 
so I don't take that that I should first hear it from somebody then he should come and ask for it.

MR CURRIN: If we could maybe facilitate some discussion, some real sort of heart to heart discussion 
between you and the perpetrators to help you deal with the matters, do you think it may help you?

MR MORUDU: No, at this stage no, I don't think it will help me.

MR CURRIN: Are you working at the moment?

MR MORUDU: Yes, I am working.

UNKNOWN: What work do you do?

MR MORUDU: I am working at this moment.

UNKNOWN: What work are you doing?

MR MORUDU: I am a clerk.

UNKNOWN: You are a clerk?

MR MORUDU: Yes.
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

UNKNOWN: 176

UNKNOWN: Did you have to undergo medical treatment for the injuries that you suffered?

MR MORUDU: Yes. I underwent medical - my last operation was last October 31st.

UNKNOWN: Where?

MR MORUDU: Medforum Hospital.

UNKNOWN: For what was that?

MR MORUDU: According to that doctor they said my nose was -the bone which separates the two 
nostrils was - went to the other side. I think it is as a result of them kicking me in my face.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Mr Morudu I think we need details, more details about what happened then at your 
encounter with the applicants. I assume they came to you and picked you up?

MR MORUDU: Yes, they abducted me on the 17th May, it was around 7.00pm.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Ja, tell us about the abduction, start there, tell us what happened.

MR MORUDU: I was in Mamelodi East at a certain comrade of mine reading newspapers and when I 
went home it was dark.  It is an open veld. I noticed two Whites and two Blacks and they pulled out their 
firearms and one of them shot and I was apprehended by one whom I realised as Hendrik Mokaba(?). And 
from thereon my feet and my legs were chained and they drove me to the Security offices in Pretoria.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did they tell you why they were taking you to Pretoria at that time?