Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

CHAIRPERSON: Why wasn't there a bomb planted there, to stop them from going to the election polls?

MR PRINSLOO: Well at that stage there were more police deployed in those areas than in the whole of the PWV area, so it would have been senseless for us to go into an area like Sandton.  We didn't have the nice cars, they would immediately have picked us up.

ADV BOSMAN: Can I just ask one question?
	Mr Prinsloo, what do you say then concerning the evidence of the previous witness, that he specifically said that it was based on a racial, or it was racially based?

MR PRINSLOO: I do understand that, I hear what you are saying, but you must realise that many of the members had something against the blacks or people of another colour.  You got your soldiers or the grassroots level people who pertinently would say to you that they will not even think of it, to serve in a new dispensation with blacks and people of other colours.

ADV BOSMAN: Was this perception fortified by the AWB police?

MR PRINSLOO: If I can take the generals in staff, most of us farmed.  Up to the present the farmers work with black people and the blacks in this country know this, a right-wing farmer will look after his people.  The Citizen and the Sowetan also reported this, that black farm workers would never like to go and work in Sandton.

ADV BOSMAN: In other words you are saying that the leadership did not enforce this black/white distinction?

MR PRINSLOO: Well at some meetings or some public meetings it was, or the perception was created by Mr Terreblanche, yes it's definitely so.

MR MALAN: White we have the intervention, Mrs van der Walt, can I just follow this up?
	You said that you were part of the generals in staff, were you a full member?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I was.

MR MALAN: Were you just a secretary?

MR PRINSLOO: No, I was a full member.

MR MALAN: Did you participate in all the discussions?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MR MALAN: You did not see yourself beneath someone else?

MR PRINSLOO: No.

MR MALAN: The other members of the generals in staff were your equal?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, except where it comes to the arrangements of the wen kommando, there was a kommandant general who was appointed from the generals in staff.

MR MALAN: But concerning the Ystergarde, did anybody else have a say above you concerning them?

MR PRINSLOO: No, not at all because at that stage I was chosen by the generals in staff to manage that area and the Ystergarde was then appointed to me or placed underneath me.

MR MALAN: So you would only answer to the generals in staff in full meetings?

MR PRINSLOO: In closed meetings.

MR MALAN: In a full closed meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MR MALAN: That was the only place where you would answer to them?

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Not ...[no English translation]?

MR PRINSLOO: Not outside the AWB.

MR MALAN: Maybe the leader?  No, I'm talking about within the AWB.

MR PRINSLOO: That's correct.

MR MALAN: Then why did you tell us in the beginning that you received instructions from Cruywagen, specifically?

MR PRINSLOO: No, General Ackerman.

MR MALAN: I'm sorry, General Ackerman.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct, yes.

MR MALAN: How can he give you instructions?

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage he was the Kommandant General of the AWB.

MR MALAN: Now where does the wen kommando come in then, if you were involved with the Ystergarde?

MR PRINSLOO: You see the wen kommando was also divided into groups and areas, that is where most of the members of the AWB were.  Then the Special Forces - then there were special members amongst these wen kommando members who would then be taken up in special units, amongst others also the Ystergarde members.

MR MALAN: The planning and the decisions made concerning the farms, you said it was taken at the generals in staff level.  Why did Commandant General Ackerman, why did he then have to give another instruction after you as the whole generals in staff take this decision?

MR PRINSLOO: We were strictly a para-military and we worked according to military discipline and the giving of instructions and receiving instructions.  It was a discussion that was held a while ago and at that stage, the time when you are talking about now, it was the final discussion of it.  There wasn't specifics that were talked about, it was just to do the final arrangements.  Everybody knew exactly what to do and what their tasks were.
	At that stage I received a specific instruction to convey this to the special unit and to ensure that it is executed and then to get a special force member who could be used for this task.

MR MALAN: What I don't understand is why did you receive an instruction again if you said that all the decisions were made by the generals in staff in closed meetings?

MR PRINSLOO: You see this instruction was a specific instruction, everybody knew that bombs would be placed and people would be sent all over in the Eastern Cape, Western Cape, in Natal and in South Transvaal.  There would be actions all over and every area's commander or combat commander had his own instructions and he knew what was expected from him, he already had his instructions.  There wasn't a specific instruction to go that day and go and plant a bomb in Johannesburg.

MR MALAN: All those decisions, to give instructions for specific bombs at specific places right through the country, like you said even the Western Cape, was all of this handled by Dirk Ackerman?

MR PRINSLOO: No, it was handled by the generals in staff.

MR MALAN: Why did you then receive instructions from Dirk Ackerman?  And the people in the Western Cape, who gave them instructions?

MR PRINSLOO: To do what?

MR MALAN: To plant bombs, pipe bombs.

MR PRINSLOO: From their general, that specific general that was in that district.

MR MALAN: Kommandant Dirk Ackerman, was he your General?

MR PRINSLOO: Dirk Ackerman was the Kommandant General.

MR MALAN: Yes, but he wasn't your general, you were your own general.

MR PRINSLOO: Of course, but he had a higher rank in the generals in staff than I had.

MR MALAN: But the other generals or generals in staff, they also had lower ranks than that of Dirk Ackerman.

MR PRINSLOO: yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: But he did not give them instructions or did he?

MR PRINSLOO: Maybe he did.  At that stage I was not aware of other instructions.

MR MALAN: Did he have the sole or the last say in what would happen in the broader policy coming from the generals in staff, is that what you're trying to say to us?

MR PRINSLOO: No, not at all, he only gave me this specific instruction.  All of us knew what our tasks were and what we had to do.  He only gave me this one specific instruction, of this specific motor bomb or car bomb on this specific Sunday.
	We knew that we would start operating from the Monday and during the weekend people would act in certain areas as well as with me on the game farm.  We would get things in order and they will begin the operations in that week.  My instructions specifically to begin on that Sunday.

MR MALAN: Did he tell you how the car bomb had to be built?

MR PRINSLOO: No, not at all.

MR MALAN: Did you discuss this earlier on?

MR PRINSLOO: No, at that stage it was not necessary to discuss things like that in generals in staff meetings.  We knew that we had the knowledge and expertise and the special force members are there and could give the training and could do it.  The people who did the training and the instructions, the South African Police or Defence Force members, we knew that they would come from wherever, the we knew the people were there.  We did not have to tell a specific person to build a car bomb or a pipe bomb.

MS VAN DER WALT: I'd just like to take you, you said that commanders were appointed to a certain area, can you just explain this?  You said you were also a commander of a certain area.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.