Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR JORDI: I don't really want to take this matter much further, it seems that we're wasting time on a relatively petty point but I just wanted to note that it was not the instructions of any of my clients nor of Miss Nkadimeng that Mrs Madikizela-Mandela was a police informer.
 I think my learned friend Mr Semenya has twisted my words and my argument.  I'm not alleging that Mrs Madikizela-Mandela is an informer, I'm just saying that on his own logic he leads himself to conclude that his client must have been a police informer because she associated with Mr Cebekhulu and Mr Richardson and I don't think I can add anything further.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  I have made my point and I'm saying please, please, all of us need to be extremely careful.  Once you make that particular kind of assertion - any one of us, it is very difficult for anyone to disprove it.  It is a ghastly thing and we've listened here - on the whole what has then happened is that maybe the police say they confirm that so and so actually was collaborating with them but again knowing what the police were like, you can't take that at face value, you have to have found other evidence that corroborates that.
 But I have made my - if you like, I don't say it's, well it's probably a ruling that please, let's be extremely careful what we do say about people - everybody, thank you.

MR SEMENYA: Chairperson, can I welcome that ruling and indicate that I think equally difficult must be the type of statements which are made about my client having relationships with Temba when there is no basis at all to say such things.
 And for the 7 days that I have been here, the ...[indistinct] which have been made about her I have never as yet to see the factual basis upon which those allegations have been made and maybe this is what is confusing the tenia of the evidence that is tendered.

CHAIRPERSON: Go ahead, you're still cross-examining.

MR SEMENYA: No, I do not have any further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Any other?  Thank you, you're wonderful people.  No, you'll get your last bite.  What about you guys here?  Thank you, none of you? - you're wonderful.  Yes?

MR JORDI: I just have one question for Miss Nkadimeng.
 Were you ever a police informer or a police operative or did you ever willingly co-operate with the police in any way during the period under discussion?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I would say I am a well-known activist in the Northern Province and I think credibility is being built by a person.  If people elect you into a certain position within the ANC, then you tell yourself that you are a trusted and that has been happening until today.
 And to inform you, today I am at the head of the Agenda in SATU Pogwani branch in Nebo where I'm working and up to now - since I completed in 1990, I have been in the executive of SATU in the Nebo branch.  I didn't buy any trust within the teachers but they just elected me into office. 
 And from long ago when I was in college in course one until today.  So I don't think why I should today be turned into a police informer.  And I think when my comrades in prison told me about Temba and he even instructed me to expose this person to comrades before he can do any dangerous things ...[intervention]

MR SEMENYA: Chairperson, can the witness be warned not to describe Temba in terms which she does not have a factual basis to support ...[indistinct]

CHAIRPERSON: I think that you have answered the question your legal representative has put to you.  Thank you very, very much.  Sorry, did you?

MR VALLY: No, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, you are wonderful.
 We thank you, thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: The next witness is Lerothodi Ikaneng.
 Mr Lerothodi, would you indicate which language you're going to use?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Zulu?   Ikaneng - what kind of a Zulu is that?  Are you speaking in Zulu?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for coming today, we do trust and hope that you will assist us to reach the truth.  Miss Sooka will help you take an oath.

YASMINE SOOKA: Are you able to hear me clearly?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you state your full names for the record please?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, order please.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you state your full names for the record please?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: (sworn states)

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Chairman, I'm Sanjay Makanjee and I'm acting on behalf of the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, it's your turn for 15 minutes.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Ikaneng, were you a member of the Mandela United Football Club?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR MAKANJEE: When did you join the club?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: We formed the club in 1987, not that I joined it.

MR MAKANJEE: Am I correct in understanding you that the club was only formed in 1987?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is so.

MR MAKANJEE: The reason I ask you this is just to clarify a point, Absolon Madonsela made a statement saying that sometime in April 1987 the club was disbanded, can you comment on that?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, it was not disbanded, it was never disbanded.

MR MAKANJEE: You were detained after an incident in Zola, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that's correct.

MR MAKANJEE: How long were you detained for?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: For 10 months.

MR MAKANJEE: Which year was this in?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: In 1987.

MR MAKANJEE: Was this after you joined the football club?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR MAKANJEE: Can you tell us, the events that led to your being detained after that even in Zola?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I may explain.  In January 1987, we were at Mrs Mandela's home even before we were arrested.  We were coming from a funeral of one of the comrades by the name of Pojo and as we were at the funeral - we were comrades from various places, from Zolamdeni and so forth and the comrades from Zola told us that they will be having a night vigil and they were inviting us to their night vigil.
 That same night at Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's home - we were already sleeping in the back room and there was this shack that was referred to as Lusaka, in that evening one comrade came to wake us and I was woken up and I thought that could be the time to go to the night vigil in Zola.
 I woke up and as I woke up some were left behind and I went on ahead to the car and we drove off to Zola.

MR MAKANJEE: This incident that you're referring to, is this the incident where Oupa Saheri and Charles Zwane were implicated?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR MAKANJEE: Can you briefly describe that incident that took place?