Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

MR KINCAID: Did you ultimately meet Mr Pretorius that night, Jimmy?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, we met him, because what happened is, we managed to go inside Mr Joe Senti's house and he was shot in the arm, in the hand when he was trying to close the door.  We apologised to him, we told him that he was shot by mistake, our intentions were not to shoot at him.  We asked him to take us together with his wife to the farmhouse and we wanted to ask the white man to take him to the doctor or to the hospital because he was injured.  That's how we met Mr Pretorius.

MR KINCAID: And what happened when you did meet Mr Pretorius?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: We stood next to the gate and the lady that was with us called him and Mr Pretorius went out to meet with this lady.  We were hiding ourselves behind this lady.  When he was near I heard a shot and Mr Pretorius was hit.  He was shot.  We did not have a chance to speak to him because the police appeared during that time.  We then ran away.  So we didn't meet him the way we wanted to.

MR KINCAID: Do you know who shot Mr Pretorius, Jimmy?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes.

MR KINCAID: Was it Mr Mzuyanda Ntonga again?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, because he was the one who had a firearm.

MR KINCAID: Were there any others in the group who were armed with firearms?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, there were others who were armed.

MR KINCAID: With firearms?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, with firearms.

MR KINCAID: Is it true to say once again, Jimmy, that you were unable to get any firearms from Mr Pretorius?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, we didn't manage to get firearms from him.

MR KINCAID: Yes, we didn't manager to get firearms from him.

MR KINCAID: Was anything else taken from Mr Pretorius' homestead?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, because we didn't get inside the house, we just stood outside because when we heard the shot we went to him and we hit him, we then ran away, we didn't go inside the house.

MR KINCAID: Once again Jimmy, can you tell the Committee that the attack on Mr Pretorius was not one motivated by spite or ill-will or any personal dislike of Mr Pretorius?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: And once again, was the objective in going to his home that of arming yourselves by robbing him of weapons and intimidating him from his land?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, Mrs Clackers, she owned a farm stall, a farm stall on the farm Endwill(?) Farm in the district of Stutterheim, do you know the farm, Jimmy?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I do know the farm, but I didn't know it before.

MR KINCAID: Where is the farm Endwill in relation to the Kabusi township of Stutterheim?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: It was quite far, but you could walk to the farm.

MR KINCAID: Yourself, your brother Melville and Mzuyanda Ntonga were convicted of robbing Mrs Clackers in her farm store on the farm Endwill in February of 1990, can you confirm that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Why was Mrs Clackers targeted, Jimmy, why did you decide that she should be the target of your attacks?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: We didn't discuss it, we didn't conclude that we were going to attack her, it just appeared when we were embarked in a roadblock.  Comrades  came, they were travelling with a kombi and these comrades told us that there is a farm around where we can get firearms or weapons.  That is how we went to her farm.

MR KINCAID: So you went to the farm Endwill, once again with the purpose of finding and robbing firearms, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is so.

MR KINCAID: The judge found that three of you were involved in that attack and it was Mrs Clackers' evidence that three attackers came into the shop, can you tell the Committee how many people set out on that day in February to the farm Endwill, with the purpose and objective of attacking the farm and getting firearms?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: This farm that you are referring to, I'm not sure whether I'm confusing this.  As I've already said before I don't remember certain details, but now I can remember it.  When you state three people, I thought that you are referring to the farm that was in Kei Road.

MR KINCAID: No, that is the final incident we'll come to.  That is the incident involving Mrs Marulia.  Mrs Clackers, Jimmy, traded on her farm.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I do remember that now.  She had a shop and that farm was not far from us.  I had a family or relatives that were staying there.  I used to go and visit them.

MR KINCAID: Why did you decide to attack Mrs Clackers?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The reason was that there was consumer boycotts, we were not supposed to buy in shops that were owned by white people, and she opened her shop in Kologa and she would take things from town and take them to her shop and she would sell those stuff to the people.  We had to go and close that shop because there was this consumer boycott.

MR KINCAID: And who was involved in the attack on Mrs Clackers?  Is it correct that the judge found that it was  yourself, your brother, Melville Nokawusana and Mzuyanda Ntonga, or were there others in the group as well?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, it was only the three of us, but when we arrived at the shop there were people in the shop.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, so if I understand your testimony correctly, it was to go and intimidate Mrs Clackers to force her to close her trading store and to stop supplying the people who were under Stutterheim consumer boycott, from buying from her?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is so.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy the charge sheet alleges that Mrs Clackers was robbed of a PM battery or batteries to the value of R44 and a bread knife and R50 in cash.  You were convicted of that, as were two of your fellow applicants.  Why were those items taken from Mrs Clackers?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I don't know whether those things were taken from her.  I don't remember anybody taking such items, except maybe it might be people that we found in the shop when we arrived there.

MR KINCAID: I gather from that reply that you say that you did not rob her of money or batteries or a bread knife?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: That is correct.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, once again, the motivation for attacking Mrs Clackers was not because you harboured her ill-will or spite or had any malice towards her, it was not a personal attack on her? - motivated for those reason.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct, we didn't hate the farmers because they were helping in that area.

MR KINCAID: Finally, Jimmy, the last incident for which you seek amnesty is the attack on Mrs Morilia who resided in the Kei Road area, on a farm Bushview.  Do you recall that incident now?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I do remember it, it was the incident that I thought you were referring to before.  It was the one which I was confusing with the one I just testified about.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, how many of you were involved in the attack on Mrs Morilia?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: There were a lot of us, I think it was 40.  I didn't notice how many we were, we were in a kombi and the kombi was full.

MR KINCAID: Did you travel there in one vehicle or did you have more than one vehicle conveying you all there?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: It was one vehicle, one kombi.