Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-04

MR MAHLANGU: Thank you very much, Chairperson.  Chairperson, first of all I would like to thank you for this opportunity and more especially for having invited me to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  I believe as briefly as you have stated to me what it is expected of me to come and testify on before this Commission and the audience, this is an opportunity which I have been awaiting for quite long, I think for ten years now, that I once upon a time be given an opportunity to come and state my case because I never found an appropriate forum where I could of course dispel all the allegations that were surreptitiously directed at me where I could not respond because as I have said people were talking continuously about my name, making certain allegations which were not true of course and I would at the same time in the same breath say that should there be any person who has facts about the allegations that were made against me over all these years since the conflict in Kwandebele in Moutse then that person is free to come forward, talk in front of the audience.  Facts, not hearsay statements or whatever, and then I also be given an opportunity to respond.  I think this Truth and Reconciliation Commission in my opinion, sir, is an appointment by our president which is very important to all the South Africans, which I believe that in his vision he envisaged of course what could bring the people of this country together after such conflicts which existed in the past in this country.  I must continue, Chairperson, to say that after such an appointment our president did not only
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end up at that but also in his clear vision he appointed a chairperson whom he very carefully selected and I would like to commend the chairperson so selected by our president together with his team for the job they have done in conducting the hearings at this Truth and Reconciliation Commission so far.  Limiting myself to some few points well I have heard the Chair that has mentioned a few things that it is expected of me to talk on or to (indistinct) on but I think it would be very appropriate at this forum for me to say first of all that the conflict between the residents of Moutse and Kwandebele did take place during 1986 and before 1986 there was a question of consolidation and this question of consolidation of course went about Moutse being incorporated into Kwandebele and Saaiplaas and all those places in the Nebo area being incorporated into Lebowa in sort of buttering the two areas for the two so-called homelands at that time.  Now the people who did the investigation about the incorporation were the people of the central government in Pretoria.  They in fact thought it wise in their opinion, after the recommendations made by the commission that was sent out to find facts in as far as these consolidations were concerned, they thought it wise that the incorporation of Moutse into Kwandebele should be effected despite the fact that the people of Moutse or the residents of Moutse sounded many warnings against this.  Of course after having forced this down their throats the people of Moutse felt that they should attack the residents of Kwandebele or the Kwandebele people who were residing in Moutse at that time.  They had to be removed to Kwaggafontein, Enkeldoringoog, Matthysenloop and all those place, given tents there to squat because their lives were
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no more safe in the Moutse area.  The people of Kwandebele could not longer use the road to Middelberg which went through Quarrielaagte.  They had to go via Groblersdal from Middelberg or via Winberg.  Of course on the eve of the 1st 
January 1986 there were people, now I am talking about what I have heard.  There were people at Soetmelkfontein who were waiting for others at the petrol station or somewhere in the nearby.  Now those people were attacked by the people who alleged to be residents of Moutse and their cars were burned down. One of them, a certain Mr Mahlangu, was also burnt to death.  From there the conflict went on because the news ran through to Seobuswa where these people were heading to for a meeting.  I was not personally involved there.  Now those people who learnt of this news came to Soetmelkfontein and that is where they started fighting against the residents of Moutse and even took them along to the Seobuswa community hall.  Now as I have said, sir, I am not very much conversant about whatever activities that took placed there except perhaps what I could have overheard from some peoples' mouths when they started talking about the activities there.  But all in all, Chairperson, I must say that before this incident of incorporation of Moutse into Kwandebele the people of Moutse as well as the people of Kwandebele were living very amicably as brothers. There was no single indication before that these people could ever have a conflict among them.  But then because of the incorporation, which was forced down their throats by Pretoria, this conflict did take place.  Now I regret that very much, Chair, because I feel up to now instead of this blame being put to the real perpetrator who initiated the whole of this move, now some people are being pointed
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fingers at and being blamed for this or that particular isolated incident or act.  I am not trying to say I am defending those people who are being blamed for this in their individual capacities but what I say I am just trying to give a clear picture to the Commission that before Pretoria did what they did with Moutse area, the people around there used to live together amicably.  I go further to try and explain a little bit about the conflict in our area, Kwandebele.  
 During 1982, or let me say 1968 Mr Chair, a homelands system was created in Kwandebele through the first tribal authority which was created for Benzunza people and this tribal authority went on to exist until the year 1977 when the three other tribal authorities were woven together with it to form a territorial authority.  This territorial authority became known as the Kwandebele territorial authority.  After the existence of this territorial authority out of this four tribal authorities, namely besides the Benzunza tribal authority there was Manalambongo tribal authority, Bongutsa tribal authority as well as Unzunza Lito or Lito Unzunzu tribal authority.  In 1979 the status changed from territorial authority to self governing territory.  In 1982 there was a motion adopted or raised and adopted in the Kwandebele Legislative Assembly, the motion to the effect that Kwandebele had to become or had to opt for independence.  Now Mr Chair you will pardon me because I only read this in the Hansard of 1983 ... Legislative Assembly members of Kwandebele were commended on the adoption of this motion by a certain Morrison who was a deputy minister in the Republic of South African government.
... politics of the area.  Well immediately when this
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Morrison had to talk about the adoption of this motion he mentioned something about consolidation.  He even promised the Kwandebele government that very soon there would be an announcement about the borders and so on and so on.  Now I must also here and now, Chair, mention that at that time the spirit amongst the people in the Legislative Assembly was that this independence or so-called independence should be gone for or opted for.  They went around advocating to this for the people of Kwandebele and of course they were telling them how good it would be after independence and so on and so on.  But these people, without mentioning their names, sir, I would like to say they did this for their own benefit.  Because immediately after they realised that they could not secure the positions they thought they would in the government and also be in a position where they could secure casions, they started talking against independence to the people.  Well I don't find any fault with that personally, Chair, but at least they could have told the people the truth, that we did want to go independent so long as we would be in the positions that we wanted to secure but as we now realise that we won't be in such positions or independence won't bring us what we expected of it to bring us, then we beg you to support us and let's fight against this.  I think if at all they informed the people fully there would have been no conflict about the issue of independence because in my opinion it was just an issue that could have been resolved by the people sitting around a table.  Of course, sir, many things happened.  The perpetrators have now come before the audience to this Commission and start telling the untruth still to the public.  And I regret that too because I feel that the
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public still expects to hear the truth.  It is a pity, sir, that most of the acts that the said perpetrators committed were attributed to me and to some other people.  It is a pity, I don't want to talk about myself personally but I just feel I have got to mention that because there is a perception running throughout the public's minds that I was involved in this or that.  I have heard some of the people mentioning such things but I am happy right now, Chair, that I am here now and I would be very happy if the members of this Commission could put any question to me regarding the gross violation of human rights without me mentioning what has been alleged against me in as far as the gross violation of human rights is concerned.  All I can say is that all that was said or the whole perception was and it is still wrong and it will continue to be wrong because I know right in my conscience that all of these things that are alleged against me are false allegations.  
 Maybe I should explain this.  Mr Piet Ntuli was not either the founder of Mbcoto or the president of Mbcoto but Mbcoto was founded by members of Benzuza tribal authority.  I think this happened as early as 1973 if I remember well.  If not 1974.  Well, Chair, I may just mention that during 1973 the first actions of a group of men took place at Mayiso Secondary School where an uprising by students who felt very dissatisfied about the food that they were given had to be suppressed.  And that was the very first day when the group of people who were called in the name of Ingwayama Umabusa, that Ingwayama Umabusa is calling on you people to go and do this and that at Mayiso because the students there are going out of hand.  They did go there.  Some of the students were assaulted, they went to this very Philadelphia
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Hospital, they were admitted there and then that was the end of the story for that particular year.  During 1976 the very same group of people or more now because the Kwandebele area had more people than it had at that time, people were grouped from all over the show, they were sent by the same voice or on behalf of the same Ingwajama Umabusa Maboa to go and arrest a certain Mr Makosana Klaus Mahlangu who was forcefully or who was deliberately refusing to hand over a Toyota kombi which belonged to a tribal authority to the people who served under Ingwajama Umapo.  From there these people dispersed after having made their report to Ingwajama Umapo.  Later on during 1978 the very same people again were called to the very same royal kraal and instructed to go and arrest the same Makosana Klaus Mahlangu who was at that time residing at Elmersdrift C.   They arrested him of course, brought him back to the royal kraal of Ingwajama Maboa where he was interrogated and assaulted in the presence of Imgwajama Maboa and after a few days the people of KwaZulu-Natal learned of this and because he is married to Princess Nohlanhla Zulu they had to come and remove them from the area to KwaZulu-Natal.  
 Sir, I forgot one incident which occurred during 1975, that is when this very same group of people were summoned to the very same Ingwajama Moboa kraal and instructed to go to Nebo district where there was trouble by Chief Jack Mahlangu against certain residents in this area who did not support him in favouring incorporation of Nebo district, over which he was a chief, into Lebowa.  
 I then come back to - okay, I would just briefly mention that after 1978 certain incidents occurred where this group of people were always summoned in the name of
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Ingwajama Moboa and go and either remove some people forcefully who were regarded as occupying an area which belonged to Chief Mabowa such as Chief Songala Magera, he was forcefully removed by the same group of people and they were also instructed to go and suppress a certain trouble which was occurring at Wetlaagte were Chief Lazarus Mahlangu was the head of the people there or of the tribe there.  During 1984 when I was also a member of the Legislative Assembly it was stated in parliament by the late Mr S Skosana that it was not a very good thing or a healthy situation where you find that people are just summoned at random to go and be involved in a situation where they do not bear any knowledge of, they have not been properly informed and they have just been pulled together, they don't know one another so well and so on and so on.  He said gentlemen better since you know that this organisation has been existing for years, how about making it become a proper organisation with a constitution so that it could be a very well disciplined organisation so that it could not just be at random summoned to go and suppress problems which the people who are involved do not know how did those problems perhaps begin and so on.  His suggestion was supported by the members of parliament.  If I remember well someone even mentioned that yes we did in fact say long before that as soon as we have a legislative assembly we will formally form this organisation, make a constitution and so on and so on.  Then to my surprise their name was already there.  Their name Mbcoto.  The Chief Minister himself simply said you remember that the name would be Mbcoto.  Then I later on wanted to find out where and when was this discussed and I was told that in the presence of a
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particular magistrate who wrote down the minutes at that meeting, at the same Maboa royal kraal this organisation was formed but it was specifically or pertinently stated that it should not be introduced publicly unless it has been sanctioned by parliament one day when we have a Legislative Assembly.  That is why.  And then the first name, if I still remember well, which was suggested at that meeting was Roc Idwala or something like that and then people said no the people of Keganas in the Mazane area do have such a movement by the name of Idwala so it would be a duplication and so on.  And the person who proposed the name of Mbcoto was the present King Mayiso II.  Now after its formation it was stated also, sir, that a constitution had to be formed.  I was elected later on a member who was to participate in the constitution making for this particular organisation, which constitution was never made because later on it became very apparent that most of the people who were members of Mbcoto have now turned against it.  For one reason or the other.  But if I have got to express my opinion in that regard, the people who felt that independence date was drawing nearer  because it had already been stipulated that it would take place on the 11th December 1986, felt that since they could not secure or they didn't secure the position they wished for or they ran for, they should as soon as possible destroy Mbcoto because Mbocot was almost everybody and if they could not do that they would not stop independence which, in their opinion, should be stopped because they were to wait until such a moment that they could secure the positions they wished for in parliament or the Legislative Assembly and then independence could be opted for.  And there is a letter I think which was directed to Minister Chris Heunis to that
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effect that the so-called princes were not against independennce being opted for but they did not want it to be opted for whilst they were not in the positions that they craved for.  Now as I say, Mr Chairman, this was an unfortunate situation because the man they felt they could not easily intimidate or destroy was Piet Ntuli.  They knew that Mr Skosana was very sick, was a sick person, as Captain Hechter earlier stated here, and they knew that the way Mr Ntuli had a support in the Legislative Assembly, as soon as anything could happen with Mr S Skosana then Mr Ntuli could become a possible next Chief Minister.  I think Hechter also did mention something to that effect though he did not put it in my words.  Therefore they felt that whilst they were on their campaign using the liberation movements, which they never told the truth to also, to destroy Mbcoto.  They should also run to the security branch, to this Brigadier Cronje and his colleagues, and ask for assistance, which of course they did get.  I say they did get it because at that time it was well known amongst us that the security branch is on the side of the people of the royal kraal at Ingwajama Mobowa's place.  We knew that they did go there and hold a braai just before the riots and some of them, namely a certain Colonel Blackie de Swart did receive some gifts for which he was later on sacked from Kwandebele by Brigadier Lerm for having accepted that bribe and so many things happened to the prejudice of the residents of Kwandebele to their oblivion of course or ignorance.  They did not know what was happening and the security branch as they have been testifying before the Amnesty Committee as well as here, were telling a blatant lie in as far as the things that happened in Kwandebele are concerned because I have a
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personal knowledge.  Okay, they were not there, they don't know, they were informed.  For instance they were telling things about Piet Ntuli being involved in this or that.  Those are the perceptions they created.  They even confiscated all of his cars at some stage and alleged that he used to steal cars and the cars were driven to the police station, the Seobuswa police station.  After three days they were released.  The Cressida in which he was bombed to death's key was missing and the driver who fetched the car had to use a duplicate key to fetch the Cressida.  My Toyota kombi's key was missing.  A duplicate key had to be used and I also had a personal knowledge or an information that they wanted to eliminate me.  Now they never told either the Amnesty Committee those facts or the Truth and Reconciliation Commission today but what I want to say as a fact in as far as the missing of the key is concerned is thereafter they went to make a special request that a special bomb that would fit on that particular Cressida be made.  It is very surprising, Chair, because at that time Mr Ntuli had more than five cars but a special bomb had to be made for this particular Cressida. Well enough the security branch on one side were supporting the members of the royal kraal.  That is why today Brigadier Cronje told this Commission and the audience that Prince James and Prince Cornelius at that time were trying by all means to keep peace, trying to convince the children to go to school and all that.  That was of course the language they were telling to Chris Heunis and Adriaan Vlok but that was not true because these people he referred to this morning were in fact the people who discouraged the children from going to school.  Organising boycotts and so on and so
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on.  I don't say it was wrong but all I am saying is, Chair, it is wrong for Brigadier Cronje to come and lie to this Commission whilst it is the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and for anyone else who would come and say he does not know about the formation of Mbcoto whilst he was personallly involved.  And it is also wrong for anyone to encourage the people to come and give evidence about the people who were abducted and who disappeared whilst he personally knows where he buried them.  It is only a pity that some of the people are not yet prepared to come and reveal all these truths before this Commission but I believe that in the Parsons Commissions reports somewhere some people did go and give evidence in camera at Groblersdal to the effect that they were instructed by Mr so and so and Mr so and so to go and abduct and kill and burn to death so and so and so and so.  For instance there are people, it is a pity I don't see the wives to those late gentlemen, who moved from Pieters kraal to Benzunza Maboa royal kraal to say but what have we done, please we beg you Mr so and so don't kill us and then it was ordered that they should be removed from the royal kraal and be burnt to death somewhere.  And many more who were killed in that particular fashion.  Now all I am saying is that it annoys the people a lot, sir, to hear the people of whom it is expected that they should tell this Honourable Commission the truth at least so that the process of reconciliation could be made possible to come and just start telling what they know in their conscience that it is untrue.  Now, Chair, without going further ...