Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-08-05

CHAIRPERSON: ... whether to hold a hearing to allow the Applicants to give evidence and I think you must be put in the picture, you must be given an opportunity of seeing all this information that we have before us because it is from that that certain problems arise which I will raise in a few minutes, but now that I know you haven't seen them it becomes even, well it becomes perhaps easier to understand.

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chairman ... (intervention)

MR VAN DEN BERG: (Inaudible).

CHAIRPERSON: Well they must then.  Could I then ask your client one or two questions?  Mr Dumakude you will remember that you are still under your former oath.

MR DUMAKUDE: (s.u.o.)
Could you tell me firstly, you told us you went on a reconnaissance on Friday night. What time was that?

MR DUMAKUDE: I went on reconnaissance on Friday, it was the afternoon.

CHAIRPERSON: The afternoon.

MR DUMAKUDE: I don't recall exactly the time.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible).  Secondly am I correct that my recollection of your evidence yesterday afternoon and the notes I took is that after you had got out of your car, having set the bomb - activated the bomb would perhaps be a more accurate expression, you saw these two men and then you walked down the road to where you have indicated on the photograph, which would have been as I understand it the intersection between Upper Meyer Lane and Bight Road, you stood there?

MR DUMAKUDE: Yes Mr President.  What actually happened, I stood next to the car, acted as if I'm a chauffeur waiting for somebody.  They approached coming towards my position.  As they were approaching it was a question of them coming across the street to my position.  Partly that action was an action that they were coming from me.  I moved with trying not to raise any suspicion, just moving towards the intersection.  As one of them increased the pace to try and come to in line with me I also increased the pace.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not particularly interested in this detail, what I wanted to ask you was, you told us that you walked down to the intersection of Bight Street, you have indicated that by drawing a cross on the photograph.

MR DUMAKUDE: That's correct Mr President.

CHAIRPERSON: From there you watched what happened.

MR DUMAKUDE: That's correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understood your evidence yesterday, the only people you saw in Meyer Lane at the time were these two men?

MR DUMAKUDE: That's correct Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And on the map you must have been about 15 metres away from the car.  Is that correct?

MR DUMAKUDE: According to the map that's correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You then decided to activate the bomb rather than, to avoid the risk of any people coming out of the stadium who might subsequently be injured.

MR DUMAKUDE: Yes Mr Chairman because my moving away from that corner I was going to be out of the radius to be in a position to detonate and to observe the situation.

CHAIRPERSON: And there were no other people, there were just the two men in the road at the time?

MR DUMAKUDE: That's correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were 15 paces away from the bomb when you activated it?  Approximately, nobody's going to take a metre or two.

MR DUMAKUDE: Sir I would say, just to add on that, according to my recalling of the situation, it must be around 30 - 50 metres.

CHAIRPERSON: Well we have a scale map of the area available which shows the distance from where the bomb was to the intersection with Bight - sorry it's not 15 it's about 25 metres.

MR DUMAKUDE: What (indistinct).