Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-05

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes.  I must just also mention, this also made me suspicious at the time, that it was declared, perhaps I became suspicious wrongly after having given an instruction to plant a car bomb.
"Together with Greta and Matthew, both under my instructions, we proceeded down to the beachfront area in which I was able to do some reconnaissance.  At that stage I did not want to be transporting a car with the explosive in it, down to the beachfront to the target of the Why Not, without knowing where roadblocks were present further down West Street.  Hence I decided to carry out reconnaissance and Greta on my instructions, drove where I directed her to.   When I was satisfied that no roadblocks or no unusual (it shouldn't be political, it should be) police activity was present at the end of West Street, I then returned to the upper end of West Street where we picked up the other car and drove as close as possible to the other target.
	We left the bomb and left Matthew in the car together with Greta to try and secure a parking place.  Although there were other parking places around the Why Not bar, I chose the place most appropriate, which was the closest and right at the corner.  After the place closest to the Why Not was secured, I then walked back to where Matthew was and came with the blue Ford Cortina, which had the explosive device in the car.   I indicated to Greta to move out and then parked the blue Ford Cortina in the designated place.  I then activated the explosive and left the scene.  I then got into Greta's car and we proceeded.   
	As I had not filled up petrol in the getaway car, I then decided to do this.  This was normal procedure for Special Ops to fill petrol before any operation and I had neglected to do this.   The reason I was taught this for was that at some previous stage comrades had effected an attack, retreated and ran out of petrol during the retreat and were later killed.   We took it as an axiom,  always fill up the car with petrol.  On this occasion I forgot to do it.  I think we did fill petrol in Petrus Street or close to that area.  Immediately after filling up petrol, I realised that the bomb must have already exploded, because I set it only for 15 minutes.  
	I then proceeded to the Durban Flying Squad area on Ridge Road, where I expected to hear police sirens as this would have indicated to me whether the bomb had already gone off and whether a Security cordon had already been thrown around the city.    I was concerned that we might have trapped ourselves in the cordon by setting the time too short.  After sitting on the Ridge Road for approximately five minutes, we then left the area and drove home.  I dropped off Greta and Matthew."

CHAIRPERSON: Mr McBride, could you just indicate perhaps a distance, approximately how far that vehicle with the bomb was parked from the nearest point of the Why Not bar to it?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It is difficult to say at this stage, because I have gone passed the place recently and it seems to be a change of the pavement there where it is.   But I indicated using the police exhibit, at the TRC hearing, there should be an exhibit somewhere here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  But could you not just point out a distance, was it for instance the car further away from the Why Not bar than what Mr Richard is away from you at the moment, or was it hard up against it, close?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: About from here to where the Translators are.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  So that is about what would you agree to...

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It wouldn't be further than that.  Under 10 metres.

CHAIRPERSON: That is about 12, it can be paced off.

JUDGE PILLAY: About 15.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, it is about 15 paces, that distance I would estimate, I don't know what counsel thinks.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, it was the closest, I couldn't have come any closer by parking the car.

MR DEHAL: Mr McBride, when you say you couldn't have come any closer, are you saying that there were no parking bays closer to the Why Not bar, or is it because the pavement was wide enough away from the entrance to the Why Not to the road, where the cars are parked?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I can explain it this way, if I had gone on the pavement and parked right next to it, it would have been the closest, but I probably would have attracted attention and been arrested.

MR DEHAL: So the car, sorry the blue Ford Cortina in which the bomb was, was right next to the pavement, which pavement was closest to the Why Not bar?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct yes.

MR DEHAL: Not the opposite pavement or the adjacent pavement on the side road?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct yes, that is correct.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.   Sorry, just bear with me.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just while we are waiting for Mr Dehal, when you were there, when you put the car with the bomb there, did you see any activity at the Why Not bar and that area, what was happening people wise?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I didn't see any big amounts of people, I didn't notice people.  I didn't notice people.  I think when I got out of the car, there were some people near the entrance.

CHAIRPERSON: Approximately what time of the evening would it have been?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It was, as we had reconnoitred, it would have been about half past nine, if I remember correctly.  That is the same, a similar time to when we followed the people from C.R. Swart.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dehal?

MR DEHAL: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I am indebted to you.

CHAIRPERSON: We have just been handed some photographs here of the place.

MR DEHAL: Oh, I see, those are the photographs I presume from the trial exhibits.

CHAIRPERSON: ... numbers 95 through to 97.  Mr Dehal, you can continue if you want.

MR DEHAL: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr McBride, I now take you in regard to the Why Not incident, through the trial transcripts.  I have before me some excerpts from the trial records.  May I just show you three pages of the trial transcripts, enumerated page 761, 762 and 763 being an extract of the evidence of a witness, a State witness in that trial, the witness being Mr B.R. Erasmus.  In particular I show you page 762.  Would you care to read the relevant aspects thereof relating to his testimony wherein he alludes to his police activity, training, experience.  Mr Chairperson, before Mr McBride does so, may I just hand these in to yourself and the honourable members and my colleagues on the other side.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  This will be Exhibit J.  We will leave out the I.  This is Exhibit J.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Before I read this out, I must state that this was as per my instructions to my legal team as to the questions asked of witnesses.  This is how the questions went.
"Have you done any service in the Police Force?  Yes, I have.  When?  I left in either 1981 or 1982.  You left in 1981 or 1982?   Correct.  But for how long were you there?  Three, three and a half years approximately."

MR RICHARD: Chairperson, Mr Mall and I haven't got copies of the exhibit yet.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I couldn't find the spot where you are reading from Mr McBride, are you reading from page 762?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: 762.  Do you have it Mr Richard?

MR DEHAL: Sorry, I sent copies around.

MR RICHARD: I have nothing at all, I think there weren't enough to go around.  Mr Mall and I didn't get our ...

CHAIRPERSON: I think they will make other copies, but if you can perhaps use that one in the meantime and ...

MR DEHAL: I apologise Mr Chairman, I thought I handed over sufficient copies, it was not intended.  May I just look to see if I've got more copies.     Yes, I have additional copies.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we've got extra copies here, if you can just send them around, thank you.