Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: No, he didn't die soon afterwards, he died within the last year.

MS TERREBLANCHE: That's a matter of the urban legend, that he died two weeks later, would you say... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: No, that's not correct, I spoke to him, I can give you the exact date, but it was at the time of the Star inquiry, and his death occurred allegedly by heart attack towards the end of last year.

MS TERREBLANCHE: To go back to APC for a moment, some other people believe that it could have been either plutonium or CCM.   Have you looked into the possibility of that?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes, I have.   Neither of them have the characteristics which would have caused a fire.   There were an enormous amount of speculations and rumours about red mercury, about mercury fulminate, none of these have any scientific basis in terms of causing the fire.   Red mercury may very well exist, in fact red mercury does exist, the contentious issue is whether it plays any role in the nuclear arms sphere.   There is no doubt that red mercury exists, I can refer you to the original chemical articles on this particular form of mercury, and there have certainly been a number of unexplained deaths in people who've allegedly been linked to the red mercury industry, not least of which was Alan Kidger, but there is no evidence whatsoever that either plutonium or anything of that nature could have caused the Helderberg disaster.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Last question, have you yourself ever been threatened during your lengthy investigations?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: I was at my holiday home in Simon's Town during the last investigations, when I noticed that I was under observation from the other side of the road, if you know the Glencairn housing settlement, there's a beach, the Glencairn beach, there was a group parked there in a car, and the number plate I can give you if needs be, and they were observing me closely, and when I took out my binoculars they were thrown into disarray, I took their numberplates and they disappeared hotfoot. Now that number plate was a false number plate, but that is the closest anybody's come to intimidating me, apart from strange phone calls with nobody on the other end.

MS TERREBLANCHE: I have no further questions.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Dr Klatzow, I'm trying to work out whether Captain Uys had another alternative at his disposal in trying to land the plane, if he had realised that there was a fire on board.   If we take it that, if we follow your theory that things were still all right about two hours after leaving Taipei, one can assume that maybe the fire happened just soon after the two hours maybe?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: On a nine hour flight... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: ...nine hour long flight, instead of trying to land maybe in hostile territory like Bombay or somewhere else, could he have turned back and gone back to Taipei, as an alternative, if he had realised that there was something amiss?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Well, that's possible.   You must remember that Taipei at the time was under military dictatorship... (intervention).

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: ...that it is not certain by any manner of means that they could avoided having the hold searched there, with all the international and political repercussions that that might have involved, but there is theoretically no reason why he couldn't have turned back, gone back to Taipei.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes, ja, that would have been my next question, if it were possible that he could go back, what were the constraints, I mean the fact that there was... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Absolutely.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: ...of course a military dictatorship at that time?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Absolutely.   If there was military ordnance aboard that aircraft, South African Airway could never have afforded to have the hold searched.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes.

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: It would have effectively killed the airline.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Yes.   Which makes me wonder about checking the cargo at Taipei Airport.   Do you suspect that there was any irregularities about the... (intervention).

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: ...checking of the cargo at Taipei, because usually they need to have a checklist of what is on board?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Correct.   Well there are two statements made on that.   The first statement is that - by SAA personnel such as Theuns Kruger, who said to me, "Why Taipei?   It's a very difficult place to have it done by".   But the second statement I think should be given more weight, because it is the very man who is in charge of it, and that is Mr Jakobs, who said that that would be the right place to do it, that it was the easier place to do it at Taipei.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And then the issue of, much later on of course now with all the inquiries and so on, it seems, from the documentation I have here, that Jimmy Moutons had some documentation, that he had fed it off to London for safe-keeping.   Can you just elaborate a little bit about that?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Well I've known about that for some time.   All sorts of things - firstly Mouton was aware that material was disappearing from the Airline Pilots Association safe, he was also aware that they were falsifying the medical records of the pilots, that if there was a plane crash or an accident or some incident, they could blame it on the pilot's ill health.   He was aware that he'd been threatened.   Mickey Mitchell had approached him at the inquiry and said to him, you know, "Are you suggesting that we're trying to cover up the second fire?", kind of thing.  Now all of those things, Mouton was a terrified man when I spoke to him four years ago.   He honestly believed and told - and this came back to me, that I was a CCB agent attempting to assassinate him.   Now that is the ravings of a frightened man.   The second thing is that I know that Mouton was called in, because on Friday or Thursday last week I tracked down Yvonne Belagarde, the wife of the flight engineer, Joe Belagarde, who was lost aboard the Helderberg, and she confirmed to me that she was with Mouton, that they were close family friends, and that Mouton had been called into Margo's chambers, come back visibly upset and had told her at the time of the inquiry that he'd been threatened to drop the inquiry that he was launching, and incidentally, Ray Scott's wife confirmed that her husband had been intimidated.    So there are four people, none of whom have volunteered the information, all of whom I've had to drag the information out of, who've confirmed that Margo somehow didn't want them to give that report, and it wasn't for the reasons that he put about.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I take it that the insurance company had paid out SAA?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: To your knowledge do you know whether the insurance company had launched any inquiry?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: Nothing of any consequence.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And then, the families, were they compensated as well?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: In the most niggardly fashion that it is possible to imagine.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Can you just elaborate on that?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: They paid the bare minimum that the flight regulations allowed them to be paid, and they were coerced into signing documents of waiver, they were treated rather shamefully, and there were a number of people who refused to sign it.   Jenny Smith, who lost her husband aboard that, refused to sign that "shameless piece of paper", as she referred to it.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And do you know if any differential payments were made out to passengers on board?

DAVID JOSEPH KLATZOW: I've never been able to prove that, okay?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you very much.