Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-03-30

MR NODADA: How many policemen were you?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: We were three.

MR NODADA: I understand you were to take over from other members who were knocking off at almost about the same time?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: That is so.

MR NODADA: Right.  When you got to the university did you know where the place where you were going to perform your guard duties?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: We did not know it.

MR NODADA: Who showed you the place?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: It was Mr Makumba who was a security guard there.

MR NODADA: A university security guard?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: That is so.

MR NODADA: Where did you meet him?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: We met him at the last row of the chairs at the university as they have levels going up.

MR NODADA: Is it correct you were actually directed to go to the auditorium of the university and that is where you met Mr Mankumba?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: That is so yes.

MR NODADA: I suppose you introduced yourselves to him and he also introduced himself to you and then what happened after that?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: He introduced us he told us that he's a worker there at the University of Transkei and told us what he was doing.  He never ultimately showed us inside where the monies were kept.

MR NODADA: Was it your first time to set foot at this auditorium?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Yes it was my first time.

MR NODADA: Right, you got inside, did you find any people inside other than this Mr Mankumba?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Yes there were other people inside.

MR NODADA: What people were those?  What were they doing?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: When I noted I saw that there were also security guards as they were wearing the university uniforms and others wearing privately that I thought were maybe clerks working there.

MR NODADA: Right, you got inside, met Mr Mankumba and obviously security officers and then what happened.

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Then he introduced himself to us and then I left him standing with Pama and I went to another security guard of the university to whom I asked as to whether we cannot close two of the three doors so as to leave one entrance for use.

MR NODADA: Yes, was that suggestion upheld?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: That is so yes.

MR NODADA: Right and then did anybody take steps to close those doors and if so who was it?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I was told that I may close those doors myself.

MR NODADA: Who said that to you?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: It is the security guard I was talking to.

MR NODADA: Right and thereafter what happened, did you go to close the doors?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I moved as though I was jumping over a door going to close a door behind, I hear bullet shots.

MR NODADA: Excuse me Mr Chairman, there seems to be a mistake in the interpretation, the interpreter said he jumped over a door and yet the witness was saying over a chair, can you just rectify that?

INTERPRETER: I beg you pardon, he jumped over a chair going to a door behind to close it then he heard bullet shots.

MR NODADA: You heard those bullet shots, were you able to detect from which direction they were, whether they were inside or outside?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I could not determine where they were sounding from.  What happened when I heard them, I turned around to see where perhaps they may be coming from.

MR NODADA: Yes, carry on.

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: On my turning around I was trying to draw my own gun.  I had pains on my leg which confused my brain and I was trying to respond to a person who was wearing a khaki cap, you know, wearing also a overjacket, a khaki overjacket, wearing a striped pair of trousers.

MR NODADA: Okay, let's go back a bit, go back to this something which you felt on your leg.  Can you repeat what you felt on your leg?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I felt something hitting very hard like a doctor's injection on my leg.

MR NODADA: And what happened to you immediately after that feeling on your leg?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I drew a gun, hoping to respond to this gun that I thought was shooting.  I saw this person wearing a khaki cap, a khaki overcoat and a striped pair of trousers.

MR NODADA: Yes, what did you do with the firearm which you drew out?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: After that when I tried to look at him to identify him I heard bullets from behind at me.  At the top of my right leg and I fell on my back, you know, unconscious afterwards.

MR NODADA: I want you to tell us what you did with your own firearm when you drew it out, what did you do?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: The only shot that went out was one that went into the air because it was when I was already shot and confused.

MR LAX: Sorry, are you saying that you fired a shot?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Yes that is so.
ADV. GCABASHE: But you don't know which direction that shot went in, you simply drew your firearm and shot?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I shot into the air at that time not really able to respond properly to the situation.

MR NODADA: Why did you shoot?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: It's because I heard that we were being shot at and I too had been shot at the time.
ADV. GCABASHE: Were you facing the chap in the khaki jacket at the time you drew your firearm or were you facing in a different direction?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I was looking at this khaki clad person.

INTERPRETER: I think I cannot properly understand what the witness is saying?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I was looking sideways at him.

MR NODADA: Why did you decide to draw out a firearm?
What made you decide to do that?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Because I heard the two gunshots going up.

MR NODADA: Now how long after you had heard the two gunshots did you feel something striking you on your right leg?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I could say that it was something happening within three seconds.

MR NODADA: Where was your firearm on your body?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: In a holster in my waist.

MR NODADA: Right and after you had fired this shot in the air what happened?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I felt something hitting on my leg like a very strong injection, I fell down then.

MR NODADA: Now this something which fell you down was it first or second or third, you have mentioned some similar striking on your leg.  The one that actually put you to the ground, was it the first one or some other subsequent one?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I cannot remember because there was a number of bullets hitting me then.

MR NODADA: You fell down and thereafter what happened?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I fell unconscious.

MR NODADA: Where were you when you regained consciousness?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I regained consciousness on hearing people asking people what tragedy is this.

MR NODADA: Where were you?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I was lying on the ground.

MR NODADA: Where?  Still in the same auditorium or somewhere else?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: Still in the auditorium.

MR NODADA: Now when you felt this something striking you on your leg had you already reached the door you were going to close or were you still on you way to it?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I was still on my way to it.

MR NTONGA: And how far were you from that door if you can estimate?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I may say from here to Mr B B Ntonga, that's the distance of the - between myself and the door.

CHAIRPERSON: Already estimated at about five paces.

MR NODADA: Right, how was that door opened, was it wide opened or was it just ajar or was it partly closed but clearly not closed properly?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: They were differently opened - others half open others a bit open.

MR NODADA: I'm asking you about the one you were proceeding to.  How was it opened, half opened?

CHAIRPERSON: Was it a single door or a double door?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: It was one door.

MR NODADA: Right and how was it opened?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: It was widely open.

MR NODADA: Did you see anybody outside or immediately outside that door as you were proceeding to it?

WILBERFORCE SANDLA: I saw nobody.