Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did mention that there were several meetings that were held, although I cannot remember the exact dates of those meetings.
	Therefore I cannot say which meeting was on which date.

MR BERGER: But you do recall a meeting about two weeks before the massacre where residents were complaining about IFP members being killed by Boipatong residents, do you remember that?

MR MKHIZE: As I mentioned before, there could have been two or more meetings where residents had voiced these complaints.

MR BERGER: What I am more concerned about is the timing of these meetings.   You conceded when you were being questioned by Ms Tanzer, that one such meeting could have been held about two weeks before the massacre where these complaints were being aired, am I correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I do not dispute that.  What I am saying is I cannot remember exactly when these meetings were held.  It could have been two or three meetings or more.
	It is not that I am denying that I said that before.

MR BERGER: From the 12th of January 1992 until June 1992, there was a lot of violence in the Vaal, Sharpeville, Sebokeng, but not Boipatong.   Do you know of anyone who was killed, any IFP member who was killed in Boipatong or by residents of Boipatong after Mr Bongani Mbatha was killed and until the beginning, 3rd, 4th, 5th of June 1992?  Do you know of any IFP member who was killed?

MR MKHIZE: Although I cannot be certain whether people were killed before or after the death of Bongani Mbatha, there were people who were killed in the township.

MR BERGER: Do you know of an incident on the 4th of June 1992, where four ANC members were allegedly kidnapped, tortured, taken to kwaMadala hostel and forced to join the IFP?

MR MKHIZE: No.

MR BERGER: I beg your pardon it was in May 1992, do you know about that?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not know about it.

MR BERGER: The next IFP supporter to be killed, was Mr David Mbele, did you know him?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember him.

MR BERGER: And he was killed on the 13th of June 1992.

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember him.

MR BERGER: There were other IFP members who were allegedly killed, I beg your pardon, there is one other IFP member who was allegedly killed on the 13th of June 1992 in Boipatong, a woman.  Do you know of her?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I know of a certain Nomvula.

MR BERGER: And then on the 14th of June 1992, a Mr Bea Khumalo was killed in Boipatong.  Did you know Mr Khumalo?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did.

MR BERGER: My point is this Mr Mkhize, from the end of January 1992 until the beginning of June, in fact until the 12th of June 1992, no IFP members or supporters were killed in Boipatong.
	How then was it possible at a meeting held approximately on the 3rd of June 1992, for residents of the kwaMadala hostel to come and complain about members dying daily at the hands of residents of Boipatong, when in fact that wasn't happening on the 3rd of June, and hadn't happened for months before the 3rd of June 1992.  That is my question.

MR MKHIZE: I do not believe that we would just go out and attack people without a reason.  What I know is that we actually launched a revenge attack.

MR BERGER: Oh you had a reason Mr Mkhize, let me suggest to you what your reason was.  Your reason was part of an IFP strategy for the Vaal, in fact for the Transvaal at the time, and that strategy was to import people from kwaZulu Natal into those areas, and let's concentrate on the Vaal, and to create chaos in the Vaal so as to destabilise the political processes that were on the way at the time.  Wasn't that the whole reason behind this attack, this massacre on Boipatong on the 17th of June 1992?

MR MKHIZE: That is not true.  I regard it as an insult.

MR BERGER: Do you know what was happening at the time politically in the country, June 1992?  Did you know about CODESA?

MR MKHIZE: I would hear about it although I did not know what was going on.  I heard about CODESA.

MR BERGER: And there were negotiations underway, designed to produce a new constitutional dispensation for this country, to change the country from apartheid to a democratic South Africa?  You knew that that was going on at the time, didn't you?

MR MKHIZE: No, I was not aware of that happening.

MR BERGER: And the attack on Boipatong, I am putting to you, was designed to derail those negotiations, wasn't that the purpose for the attack on Boipatong?  It went far beyond you and the residents of kwaMadala, it was an IFP decision to attack Boipatong, so as to derail those negotiations?

MR MKHIZE: That is an insult.  I regard it as an insult.

MR BERGER: All right, well, you yourself didn't want to attack Boipatong, am I right, you were forced to?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And these requests for action against Boipatong, were being made to you over a long period of time, over many months before the attack actually took place, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And you, as one of the most senior leaders of the IFP in the hostel, who did you discuss a potential attack on Boipatong, with?

MR MKHIZE: I already mentioned that I spoke to the residents, because the Prince who was actually the most senior person, was absent.  Therefore I discussed the matter with the residents.

MR BERGER: Mr Mkhize, we are talking about leaders now.  You have told the Committee that over many months, there was this feeling amongst the residents, I won't put it any higher than that, feeling that there had to be an attack on Boipatong.
	My question to you is, which leaders of the IFP, either in the hostel or outside the hostel, did you consult with at any time, before you decided to launch the attack on Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: I did not discuss it with any leaders.

MR BERGER: You knew that, this is according to you, that Prince Vanana Zulu was against an attack, correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: You were against an attack, you have already said that that is correct.

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Why were you against the attack and why was Vanana Zulu against the attack?

MR MKHIZE: The problem I had was that people were going to be killed, but I also felt that my life was in danger.  The Prince can speak for himself as to his reasons for his unwillingness to go and attack Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Which people were going to be killed?  You said you were against the attack, because people were going to be killed.  Which people?

MR MKHIZE: I did mention before that it was members of the Self Defence Units.

MR BERGER: You were against killing them, but you decided it is better that they get killed instead of you getting killed, would that be fair?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And you were against killing them, because you thought, I ask you, that this would be contrary to IFP policy and would be counter to the aims and objectives of the Inkatha Freedom Party, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: You knew that Moses Mthembu was a senior member of the IFP in the hostel, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: He was not an IFP leader, but he was in a senior position under the ISCOR management.

MR BERGER: Why didn't you discuss a possible attack with him, or ways in which you could avoid attacking Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: It was not easy for me to tell something of this nature to him, because he was elderly.

MR BERGER: Because he was older than you, you didn't discuss your fears in relation to an attack on Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: Please repeat the question.

MR BERGER: Because he was older than you, you didn't discuss your fears with him in relation to an attack on Boipatong, is that your reason?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR BERGER: Why didn't you discuss the problem with Mr Themba Khoza for example, he was a leader of the IFP in the Vaal, you knew that, you could have spoken to him?

MR MKHIZE: Themba Khoza was not a leader in the Vaal Triangle.