Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-02

MR LEWIN: Obed, thank you.  Thank you very much for that.  What I would like to do if I may is to ask one or two questions and then let the others fill out the story.  Could I just ask how old was your brother at the time?

MR NTIMANE: He was 16 years old.

MR LEWIN: And what activities was he involved in that got him shot in the first place?

MR NTIMANE: Well I don't know much because by the time when he was shot I was not near by there.

MR LEWIN: Okay.  And could you tell us also after the funeral was there any assistance given to you by way of a
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post mortem or assistance thereafter?

MR NTIMANE: Actually I did not get any help but the doctor who did a post mortem then he said to me if people who can assist me there are some lawyers there and then I felt that if I can pursue this matter I won't have money to do that.

MR LEWIN: And there was no case opened by the police into how your brother was shot?   (Nothing further recorded on tape).  Skhunbuzo, could you please briefly in your own words tell us what led to the incident and what your experience was.

SKHUMGUZO MASHABA: During 1986, July on the 2nd, it was on Monday, we were just standing outside in one of our streets at home, together with Temba Ntimane and Amamzi who has also passed away.  We were just discussing and then we saw a casper passing from the other street and it was going past.  It stopped at that bus depot.  Then I showed Temba that look those are the police.  I don't know why are they stopping there and then I said now that we are here they may come, they may come to us and I saw them coming from a passage.  When they came out Temba was standing you know facing me and together with me was Amamzi who was facing us as we were standing there discussing.  And from there I ran, I heard a gunshot and they shot again and then they missed me.  I went to another street and I looked back, I saw another 4 x 4 car and they were kicking Temba Ntimane who was lying down.  And there was another police and then the other people were saying no you should not kick him.  And then I left the place.  I ran to Temba's place.  I went to Temba's place.  On my arrival there  I found Aboti Ntimane, who has also passed away, who is also a relative.  He is the brother to Obed.  Then I explained to them.  I said to them Temba has
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been shot.  They asked is he dead and then I said I don't know because he was lying down.   And then Obed said let's go and have a look and then we went to the scene.  We did not find anyone there.  And then we went back again.  At home then we were waiting for the old people and then Obed said no let's go to Legasi to go and check whether is he dead or what.  And then we went to hire a vehicle.  We went to Legasi.  We found the policemen and then I did not say anything but Obed was discussing with the police officers.  And we went back to the police station at Matsulu.  And they went inside to the police and after that there was discussing further with Obed.  And then they said to us well there is nothing that you can do because the person is dead already.  And then we went back.  I also went home.  The following day while I was fast asleep I woked up, I felt some pain here.  I don't know why am I feeling the pain here and I felt there are some - it is bulgy here.  And then I said maybe the birdshots there they are inside.  I took the razor and I cut myself and these birdshots came out.  Then I went to the place where they shot us.  I found a lot of cartridges and I found these cartridges.  They were falling there.  I looked at them.  I took them to my home.  I showed my mother.  When I showed my mother then my mother said oh well it is fortunate that - and they said to us no the police are busy hunting for you.  Then I went to another place, at the trust.  On the funeral day I had to go back to attend the funeral and it was on Friday.  On Friday when I came to Matsulu I discovered that busses were not allowed to enter Matsulu township.  I alighted the bus and then I went through the bush to the place to my home.  And the evening when I wanted to hear what was taking place and then I heard
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that the soldiers don't want anybody there.  Then I said well I will go despite what they are saying.  Then at the funeral there the soldiers came with and they tear-gassed us and then we went away until the following day.  During the funeral the following day the soldiers were there.  We went to the graveyard and we were just marching while others were in busses.  As they were conducting the funeral the soldiers were up on the hill and after the funeral we went - the old people were actually using the busses transport and we were walking by foot and we were following by foot.  When the bus were about to enter the township and were running and the 4 x 4 vehicle was following us on our footsteps and then we ran away and they were shooting at us.  We did not know what was actually happen.  We only heard that or some of our friends have been shot.  We did not even go back to that very home again.  That was how it happened.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much Skhumbuzo.  I would just like to ask again a couple of just brief questions.  How old were you at the time this happened?

SKHUMGUZO MASHABA: I was 16 years old.

MR LEWIN: 16.  I want us to try and understand what was happening.  You have both told a very graphic story.  But why were you shot?  Why do you think you were shot?

SKHUMGUZO MASHABA: We know that these people if they see you they simply shoot at you.  They don't want to see you in a group.  They say they don't want to see people in a group, they just shoot you if they find you in a group.

MR LEWIN: So when you first saw that casper down the street you weren't actually doing anything?   You weren't throwing stones at them for instance.

SKHUMGUZO MASHABA: Actually we were not doing anything. We were
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not throwing stones.

MR LEWIN: And when you came back from the funeral was that the case as well?

SKHUMGUZO MASHABA: No, we did not throw stones when we were coming from the funeral.  We were just, you know, cool and collected.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.  If I could now ask Mama Banda.  It was your son who was particularly affected after the funeral.  If you could please tell us in your own words what happened to you.  Thank you.

NONASWAZI BANDA: During the year 1986 in July on the 14th, it was the day when Temba Ntimane was buried and we were in a bus and most of our youth were actually walking.  We were going to the graveyard and the police were also there observing.  And when we finished funeral we used the bus but as we were going back we saw a lot of policemen pointing at us and as adults which went ahead we went home and in the evening at round about half past six a boy came to me, told me that Richard has been shot dead in the street of Irene.  And then we went to the very same street at that time and then they said to us oh the police have already removed the corpse.  Then we went back home.  It was after Sunday, on Monday - on the Tuesday the police came to our home.  They came right into my house.  There were three but I understand there were three others outside.  And then they said to us Richard Banda is at the mortuary in town, I must go on Wednesday to go and see him.  On Wednesday I went to the mortuary.  I was together with Maseko and another person known by the surname of Ngubene.  Another mother.  Miriam Ngubene. We went to the mortuary.  It was on Wednesday.   To show us the corpse.  They removed him - they removed him, he was just dressed as
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he was when he left home and he was shot.  Wounded.

MR LEWIN: Take your time Mama.