Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

CHAIRPERSON: Did you try to go and see psychologist?  As a nurse you will have this background.  You and your son.

WITNESS:   No.  I don't want to lie, I never tried that.

CHAIRPERSON: What about reverends or pastors?

WITNESS:   No, no counselling at all.

CHAIRPERSON: What about you, how do you feel?  Are you still the same Lindiwe as you were before, or this experience affected you a lot?

WITNESS:   Yes, it affected me.  I used to be a kind woman, but now I am very cruel and unkind.

CHAIRPERSON: You never tried to go for counselling, see psychologist?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: What about your mother, what is she saying when she realised that your son is doing this?

WITNESS:   No, my mother is trying her best to show my son that I am his mother, and sometimes my mother will tell my son to come to me to ask for things.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were arrested you were never taken to court, there was no trial, or what?

WITNESS:   That's why I am here before the Commission, because I was just arrested and put in custody, but I was never taken to court.  I would like the Commission to find out.  Thokozani Mthembu, Tororo, those were the people who went to court.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they charged?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were charged, but they were discharged.  Yes, they are still alive, and if you need to contact them you can.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have their address or their addresses?

WITNESS:  No, I don't, but Thokozani is coming forward shortly.

CHAIRPERSON: We heard that you've been harassed for something that you don't know.  One other thing I have forgotten to ask, did you receive your salary?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did receive my salary when I was in police station in Newcastle.

CHAIRPERSON: That's okay.  I would give my colleagues a chance if they have questions to ask you.

MR LAX: Sorry, just one question please.  You were never charged, so under what law were you actually detained?  Do you know?

WITNESS:   Under state of emergency.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  What happened to you was a usual thing that will happen to most people in South Africa in those days.  People were arrested not knowing what they did, and that's why we as a Commission we are happy when we get people like you coming forward to relate to us things like this.  As you have told us that you and your son are having problems, the lady who is next to you will help you, giving you contact for counsellors and psychologists.  Thank you.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to find out if there are any witnesses who have just arrived to render their testimony?  We will adjourn, have a short adjournment for tea.  What we would like to say here is that if there are any who have already given statements, and knowing that they want to come forward to give the testimony to the Commission, they shouldn't fear anything.  But as long as they know that they were to come forward to give the testimony in front of the Commission I would like Mrs Msomi to meet with them.  All those who knew that they are to come forward to render their testimonies today, we would like to meet with Mrs Msomi.  And as we'll adjourn for tea we'll take a short adjournment. for 15 minutes, from five to 11 to 10 past 11.
One other thing that I would like to announce to you is that tea only has been prepared for the witnesses and their families.  We do, however, apologise that some of you who are present here we could not provide tea or refreshments for you as well.  I would like Mrs Msomi to show the witnesses and their families where they will have refreshments, and some others may just go and bask in the sun outside.  Maybe we shall stand up now in respect of the witnesses as they leave the hall.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe we should announce this, that we do have the statement-takers with us here, and all those who will wish to give their statements, and knowing very well that they have been tortured, should go around the building next to the green curtain.  That's where they  will sit and await for the statement-takers so they may render their statement.  All those who would like to render their statements, there is a statement-taker with us today, so kindly go to the left.
And we would like to put it to you that if there is anyone who would like to have these things, the headphones, there is English in channel two, there is Sotho in channel four, and there is Zulu coming to the floor.  Thank you.
And those who have just arrived, and who will have to give their testimonies today in front of the Commission, please get in touch with Sithandwa Msomi so we may insert you in the programme.  And we do trust and hope that those who haven't arrived, they will arrive in due time.
Somebody is talking from the audience, and it is not audible enough, so we will not interpret that. 
The names that I will call now, if they are by any chance present here please get in touch with Sithandwa Msomi, the ones that I will announce their names right now.  Constance Mbutho, Samuel Mbatha, Vusimuzi Duze, Michael Sihlako, Selby Nene and Mpilondle Khanyile.  I'll repeat, Constance Mbutho, Samuel Mbatha, Vusimuzi Duze, Michael Sihlako, Selby Nene, Mpilondle Khanyile.  If they have arrived please do contact Mrs Msomi right here in front.  Thank you.
We are about to resume now.  We will kindly ask Prince Blessing Muali to come forward to the witness stand.
Before we go on we have an announcement here.  Those who would like to listen to Sotho please let us see you,  because we will only have Sotho when there is a witness
relating his story in Sotho.  If there is anyone speak Sotho, or who needs Sotho, please get in touch with Mrs Msomi, then we will make arrangements for Sotho.  If there is anyone who will come to render his or her testimony in Sotho please do mention that you would like to have Sotho, listen to Sotho and speak in Sotho.  Thanks.
/CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to greet you, Prince.  You are with someone there.  Is she going to relate the story?

PRINCE BLESSING MUALI: No, she is not.  She is my wife.

CHAIRPERSON: What's her name?

PRINCE BLESSING MUALI: Her name is Thabusile.

CHAIRPERSON: So she is your wife?

PRINCE BLESSING MUALI: Yes, she is my wife.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to thank Thabusile for her support.  We would like you to tell us more - or first of all to stand up and swear.

PRINCE BLESSING MUALI: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: The person is going to help you in leading your evidence will be Mr Ilan Lax.

MR LAX: Good morning, Mr Muali.  Thank you again for coming.  Before we proceed to your story we would just like to get a few of your family details and so on from you.  We are pleased to see you have your wife here to support you.  Please tell us a little bit about your family.

WITNESS:   The one next to me is my wife, and we have two children.  The first one is 13 years old, the second one is five years old.

MR LAX: What are their names and genders please?

WITNESS:   The first one is a boy and his name is Sibonelo.

MR LAX: The second one?

WITNESS:   The second one is - her name is Gugu.

MR LAX: Do you have your parents?

WITNESS:   I do have a mother, and my father is late.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... us of your own family.  Did you have brothers and sisters?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.

MR LAX: Just briefly, how many brothers and how many sisters?

WITNESS:   I have one brother and I have seven sisters.

MR LAX: Now, the story that you're going to tell us about took place during 1990.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: It is quite a well known story, and it made the newspapers and so.  It is quite a tragic set of events that happened during that time at Hlobane Colliery, which is near to Vryheid.

WITNESS:   That is correct.