Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-07

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I did not know before and after it, but subsequently I did discover it because the whole township lights went out.

MR DEHAL: And then there are those two DLBs, the Shangweni DLBs, which were termed as acts of terrorism in your trial.  These are the two that you were acquitted of.  Here again, all you did was support as per your role with an MK, in that you drove Robert and various persons in those two operations to the DLB, to the site of the DLB and back, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: The Edendale operation of course, you were convicted on some counts.  There are I think about five or six counts that you were acquitted on.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: There were four, four of the six.

MR DEHAL: Murder and the other things?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I was acquitted yes, of the murder and attempted murder.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  There again your role was purely a support role?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Now your sister, Jeanette Apelgren was a State witness in these trial proceedings at some stage.  Do you remember that?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: She suffered terribly as a result.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Both before she testified and after?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.  Mostly psychological damage.

MR DEHAL: And she's now living in Australia in Victoria in Australia, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: You had facilitated the service of the notice in these proceedings that were addressed to Jeanette Apelgren sent to me and then I gave to you and you sent to Jeanette in Australia, correct?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: Now you've had discussions with her since, by E-mail and on telephone.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR DEHAL: Is it correct that she cannot avail herself at these proceedings primarily because of the enormous costs for her to come here and she has no monies and none were offered to her?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: Secondly, is it correct that you have discussed with your sister Jeanette Apelgren the disclosures that McBride, comrade Robert has made here before this Commission and that which you intended to make?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR DEHAL: And what is your sister's attitude to these full disclosures?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Well she said she wishes us luck with our amnesty application.  She supports our amnesty application and she would really like it if we do get that amnesty and though, I suppose to some extent she did express some anger still towards the system of apartheid, but yes, she fully supports it.

MR DEHAL: And has she any reservations, misgivings about your full disclosure, the version in your full disclosure and McBride's?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, she has no problem with that.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Sorry, if you'll bear with me.  Yes, Chairperson, that is all, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DEHAL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Dehal.  Mr Berger, do you have any questions you'd like to put to Ms Narkedien?

MR BERGER: Chairperson, we support Ms Narkedien's application for amnesty.  We have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ms Kooverjee, do you have any questions that you would like to put?

MS KOOVERJEE: None, thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS KOOVERJEE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Richard?

MR RICHARD: A number, but I won't be that long though.

MR RICHARD: Now, in and during the months January to end of June 1986, ending at the time that you were arrested, did you travel to and from Botswana with Mr McBride on a number of occasions?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, that's true.

MR RICHARD: Do you recall how many?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I can't recall how many, but I can just try to roughly count on my fingers.  I think we went once in February and once again in March, in April, in June, possibly May as well.  I think almost once a month virtually, so it was about four or five times.

CHAIRPERSON: And you would travel in a motor vehicle together by road?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR RICHARD: Now when you went to Botswana, did you meet with the first applicant, Mr Ismail?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I did.

MR RICHARD: Were you present at any discussions between him and Mr McBride?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: On the first occasion when I met him there were discussions with a lot of us sitting there.  Robert and Rashid were present, but that was a social occasion, probably for just about 5 minutes or so.

MR RICHARD: Now did you know what the purpose of the trips to Botswana was?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Well when Robert recruited me early in January 1986, he explained to me that he cannot explain the purposes to me.  In fact he didn't even tell me that we were going to Gaberone.  I discovered when we were in Mafikeng that we were now going - that's where we're actually going.  All he could say was that he was a Commissar for the ANC, absolutely nothing else, so I never knew what the purposes really wee.

MR RICHARD: Now in and during the same period, were you aware that there were various attacks on substations and other installations in and around Durban?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, I read about some in the newspapers.

MR RICHARD: Did you connect your trips to Botswana with the various attacks and various infrastructures?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No.  No, not necessarily.

MR RICHARD: Did you know you were bringing ammunition and weapons and equipment back into South Africa?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, he didn't tell me, he didn't show it to me, so I didn't know.

MR RICHARD: Now, you gave evidence concerning dead letter boxes.  What's a dead letter box, do you know?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Well I subsequently, when we were preparing for our trial, that it really mean caches of arms that would be stored in some remote place by person A or person B to come and collect.

MR RICHARD: But at the time, did you know what was being done?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: At which time?

MR RICHARD: At the time you transported Mr McBride and other members of his unit to various places?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No it was not possible to know.

MR RICHARD: Now on the evening of the 14th of June, 1986 when  you went towards the centre of Durban from Wentworth, were you aware that you were going on a mission?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, I wasn't aware, not at all.

MR RICHARD: Now, were you aware that two motor vehicles were involved in whatever you were doing?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Sorry, that two vehicles were being used?

MR RICHARD: >   Yes.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, because we travelled in two vehicles.

MR RICHARD: Now when you arrived, in the centre of Durban, did you drive directly to where you parked the car, or was there a certain amount of driving around to different places?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: When I got to the centre of Durban, the city centre...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Take it from when you left the - did you come down the southern freeway when you got off the southern freeway, I think, is that what you're asking?

MR RICHARD: Yes.

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes.

MR RICHARD: Did you drive directly to a destination or did you go to a number of places?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: No, we did go into the city centre round about the, what is it, house and home Hyperama, or something like that and then after that we did go directly down to the beach front area.

CHAIRPERSON: But Ms Narkedien, if one were coming from the Southern freeway and going to the beach front area, that wouldn't really be out of the way much, would it, to go past that Hyperama?  Was that in West Street, or Smith Street or something?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Yes, it's in West Street and you would come off the freeway into West Street and then we stopped there.

CHAIRPERSON: But what I'm trying to say, it wasn't a circuitous route to get to ...

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: Oh I see, yes it was on the way, so to speak.

MR RICHARD: At what time did you leave Wentworth?

ZAHRAH NARKEDIEN: I don't recall the time, but I would say it was very early evening.