Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-06

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I heard that my relatives had been killed, when we launched that attack on Boipatong.  That is what I heard.   I am not sure whether any relative of mine died before that attack.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I am lost now.  When my colleague asked you a moment ago, I understood you to say that there were relatives, some of your relatives were killed in Boipatong during the unrest?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I must have misunderstood that question.  My relatives were killed during the attack on Boipatong, when the hostel residents went on that attack on Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: I see, so when you went on to say - you did not know who killed those relatives?  I see.  Your relatives were only killed during the attack on Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And these are the relatives you used to go and visit prior to the attack?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, and these are the relatives that you don't know their names?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct, I have forgotten their names.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg yours?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I have forgotten their names.

CHAIRPERSON: Surnames?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: They are Nosenga's.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.

ADV SIGODI: Where did they stay in Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Some stayed in Slovo Park and some stayed in the township, but I do not remember now because I have spent some time in prison.

ADV SIGODI: Can you remember the Zone in the township, in Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know, but they stayed in the township, I will just take a taxi, but I don't know which Zone they stayed in.

ADV SIGODI: Do you know the street?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nosenga, let me ask you Mr Nosenga, if you don't understand a question, say so, so that we can repeat the question or explain the question to you.  Yes?

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Nosenga, who are your friends whom you visited in Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: As I said before sir, I have forgotten their names, but I did have relatives that I used to visit in Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: No, you are not being asked about your relatives, you are being asked about the friends, your friends that you visited in Boipatong, do you understand the difference?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes.  The one person that I remember is Vusi.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  What is his surname?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know the surname.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR STRYDOM: How many of your relatives were killed during the attack?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I don't remember how many they were.

MR STRYDOM: According to you, were some of your friends also killed during the attack?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not have knowledge in that regard, but I did have friends in Boipatong.  I am not in a position to tell you whether they did die or not during that attack.

MR STRYDOM: So this person you mentioned, Vusi, was he killed or injured according to you during the attack?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not remember.

MR STRYDOM: How can you say you do not remember, do you know if he was injured or don't you know?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Sir I do not know whether he was injured or killed.

MR STRYDOM: You testified that your relatives that were killed, have the same surname and you also said Nosenga.  I want to put to you that I've got the list here of all the people that were killed during the attack, and there is not a Nosenga amongst them, do you have any comment?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I was told that my relatives had been killed in that attack.  My family told me so.  It is not something that I have just made up.

MR STRYDOM: Who told you that, which family member of you told you that?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: My sister, Nomvula.

MR STRYDOM: Now that you have testified that you had been in Boipatong prior to the attack, I want to know how well do you know the township itself?  I will start off by asking you do you know the name of any street in that township?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, as I stated before, I do not know the street names.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know the factories on the northern side of Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I will be telling a lie.

MR STRYDOM: Do you a company by the name of Metal Box?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I only know of the factories near Tserelo, close to the BP garage.

MR STRYDOM: Are you sure it is a BP garage near Tserelo that you are referring to?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, it is a BP garage.  It is close to the robots, it is close to the robots and there are factories near by.

CHAIRPERSON: But do you know the Metal Box, is it Metal Box, yes, the Metal Box firm?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know, it could be one of those.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know this BP garage has got the yellow and green colours that is connected to these garages, do you know that?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I do not.

CHAIRPERSON: What he is saying to you is that BP garages have a yellow and a green colour.  Do you know that?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: It is possible, but I cannot tell a lie.  I know that it is painted, but I do not know the colours.

MR STRYDOM: The garage that you are referring to, can you state which colour is painted at that garage?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I cannot.

MR STRYDOM: You see, I want to put to you that the garage on the corner, close to Tserelo is actually a Trek garage, will you agree to that?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know about that.  As I stated before, the garage I know is next to the robots, and there are factories close by, on your way to Sebokeng.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: How often, prior to the attack, how often did you go to Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I used to visit, but not regularly.  I would go there once and go there again after a while, it was not an everyday occurrence.   I would go there once and go there again after a couple of days.

CHAIRPERSON: How would you get there, would you use a taxi?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, I used to board Taxi's to Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: During these visits, did you also go to Slovo Park?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I used to go to the township, but I did have a relative in Slovo Park.  I used to visit those people who resided in the township.

MR STRYDOM: I want to know did you visit relatives or any other people for that matter, in Slovo Park?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: As I said before, I had relatives at Slovo Park as well as at Boipatong, the township, but I used to visit the township.

MR LAX: You still haven't answered the question.  Just listen carefully to the question and we will all finish a lot quicker.  The question was a simple one, have you visited anybody, let's put it as plainly as that, at Slovo Park, yes or no?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No.

MR STRYDOM: So the first time you ever set foot in Slovo Park, was the night that you went there to attack according to you?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct.  That was the first time I went to Slovo Park.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't visit your relative who is at Slovo Park?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I used to visit the township.  I would go to the township, not to the shack area.

MR STRYDOM: Can you give any indication in relation to the township, where will you find Slovo Park?  Can you state the Slovo Park section, in relation to the township Boipatong, where would you find that?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: When you enter Boipatong and you go down the street, there is a mixed hostel.  Further down there is a clump of trees and further down you will find Slovo Park, that is after you have left the township, on your way towards Sharpeville.