Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-03

MR LAX: Just one last thing, do you remember that you made an application for indemnity?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.

MR LAX: And you said that the motive for killing the deceased in that application, was so that your organisation could win the 1994 election?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: To explain about the indemnity application, the purpose for making such an application was just to get some way to get out of prison, because it was a terrible place to be.
	I thought maybe if I tried to apply for indemnity, I will get a chance to get out of prison.  Thereafter I discovered that there is a Commission on which we can come and apply for amnesty.

MR LAX: I see, so that is a lie what you have put here?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is not true, that is correct.

MR LAX: Just one last thing, very last thing.  You said there were many reasons why you wanted to kill the deceased, and when you were asked to expand on the many reasons, the only other reason you gave, was that he harassed people, which was basically the same as the first reason you gave.
	What other reasons are there that make up the many reasons you have told us about?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, there was one which I just remembered now.  One night, while I was at home, inside the house, I saw him together with another young man by the name of Themba, holding a five litre petrol.  I saw them with this five litre petrol, when I saw them holding, it is a 25 litre, not a five litre petrol, my uncle was still alive at that time, I called him out to come and see what I was seeing.
	He came out and also expressed his views that these young men is a problem, and expressed that he is one of the people who are preventing us from getting more support.

MR LAX: If all your members were complaining, including your uncle, about this harassment, why did you take the decision on your own, why didn't you take it as part of your structures?
	Everybody in your structure was complaining, this man is harassing us, didn't you discuss this together in your structure and come to that decision?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: To explain, I will say that the other members in that area, were few or were young, so I realised that maybe if I tell them about this planning, they might leak the information out and I might be arrested.
	In most cases, we wouldn't tell women, female members about incidents like this, that we are going to attack a particular person.  I knew that they could be easily influenced somehow, that they can leak out the information.
	They are not strong enough to keep the information.

MR LAX: The issue was, these were the very people who were complaining about this man, your members.  They came to you, they told you he is harassing us, threatening us with pangas, we can't walk in the streets, you tell us of another incident with the petrol - surely you, together in your meetings said, well, what are we going to do about this guy?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I didn't sit with them at any meeting, but I knew that if I killed him, they will know that I am the one who killed him, and they would be happy about it.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Claassen and Ms Thabete, I will have to request for your direction.
	I wonder if this would be an appropriate time to take lunch adjournment?  I have only one aspect to pursue with Mr Mtambo, whereafter I think you can be ready to give us your addresses, which I think shouldn't take long, because we have scheduled another matter today and I would like us to finish that matter today.
	Do you propose that we take a lunch adjournment now or we conclude this matter and take our adjournment at half past one?

MR CLAASSEN: Madam Chair, I have no specific preference, it is entirely up to the Committee, I am easy both ways.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe it is an issue which really impinges on people who are far much more important than the members of the Committee, and that is the Logistics Officers - I can't locate them now, they don't seem to be around, and the Translators.
	I wonder if they can just respond whether they would prefer that we take a 30 minute adjournment now, or we only adjourn at half past one?  Will that be okay if we adjourned at half past one?

INTERPRETER: It looks like it will be fine.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, will that be fine with you?

MS THABETE: It will be fine Madam Chair, but I wanted to do some redirect, and just one question, and also I had intended to call one witness from the victims' side who would like to testify.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Is it only one witness?

MS THABETE: It is only one witness, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: In that case, would you propose that we adjourn now?  Let's hear an indication from the Logistics Officers, because there are quite a number of things that really impinges on other people rather than us.
	We are unfortunately requested to have our adjournment now, rather than later, for logistical reasons.   We will then adjourn and reconvene at half past one.  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: (still under oath)

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence, you have testified and your testimony would seem to suggest that the information that you got from one Duduza Qaba, that you must be aware that the comrades wanted to kill you, it is that information that made you sensitive to the fact that the deceased Mr Mshenga was one comrade who wanted to kill you.
	Did I understand your evidence to suggest that?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You then went on to say that two days approximately, two days before that incident, you had been informed by the deceased himself, of his intention to kill you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: May you please, I don't understand, especially with reference to the two days before.

CHAIRPERSON: I understood your evidence to say that the deceased had vowed that he would kill you, he told you that he would kill you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct, he said that.

CHAIRPERSON: You went on to say that he told you that he would kill you, two days before you killed him?  That was your approximation?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is not correct.

CHAIRPERSON: May we then correct that part of your evidence, when did he tell you that he would kill you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I can't remember because it was, there was a long period from the time he told me to the time I killed him, but I don't remember the exact time.  I won't be able to say the exact date when he told me.

CHAIRPERSON: When did Duduza Qaba warn you about the comrades wanting to kill you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: It was on Saturday, 29th of May 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: How long after the deceased had informed you of his intention to kill you, was it a week before, or a month before the 29th of May 1993?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Duduza was the second one to tell me that I was going to be killed.  The deceased himself told me, earlier before Duduza could do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  All I want to know is whether you can approximate in terms of weeks, whether the deceased told you a week before Duduza warned you about the comrades wanting to kill you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I would like to apologise in that I wouldn't be able to give the specific time, because what was important at the time, to me, it was the words that he said to me.
	The time period, it is difficult for me to estimate exactly when it was.  I can't remember.

CHAIRPERSON: When he told you of his intention to kill you, did you believe him?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: And you felt threatened by that intention?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yet, you can't remember when that was said?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I won't be able to remember the date and the month, what I can remember is the place where we were at the time, and also as to what was happening.

CHAIRPERSON: Subsequent to him saying that, what did you do?