Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

<UNKNOWN>: You will find it on page 113 of Brigadier Cronje'sapplication Mr Chairman, 113.   Mr Chairman I just want to applyfor the inclusion of two other Acts on page 112 just to be safeMr Chairman please, arson and possession of illegal explosives.  Brigadier Cronje on page 113 your application begins, couldyou tell the Committee with regard to your statement here whatyour involvement had been with the death of Pete Ntuli?

ANSWER: Mr Chair the Mbkhoto was a movement in Kwandabeleof which Pete Ntuli was the leader.  The ANC attempted to destabiliseKwandabele, this occurred by means of the burning down of housesand schools as well as boycotts and school boycotts.   I receivedinstructions to eliminate Pete Ntuli since he was destabilisingthe area in Kwandabele and in effect advanced the purposes ofthe ANC.
1b

<UNKNOWN>: /...
MR DU PLESSIS 555 J H CRONJE

<UNKNOWN>: Brigadier could you stop there, you don't needto read the next section it has to do with Trevits and we've hadsufficient evidence in that regard.   Could you possibly expandon your instructions, can you remember who gave you the instructionsand if you cannot remember could you tell the Committee or couldyou sketch for the Committee the possibilities as you see thistoday who might have been the source of these instructions?

ANSWER: I'm not entirely sure how this came about butthe most likely is that I would have made presentation to Trevitsmyself or that I did so in co-operation with Special Forces.

<UNKNOWN>: Brigadier could you continue at the final paragraph?

ANSWER: The information to us was that Ntuli was involvedin a variety of unrest incitements, murder, arson, unrest, seriousassaults, tortures, intimidation, theft, the illegal possessionof firearms and consumer boycotts.   He planned the consumer boycottsso that he would walk into a place and he would simply close theshop.   He would cut off the electrical supply to the populationor even the water supplies to the population.   It was thereforenecessary to achieve stability in the area and to counter theANC's plan of destabilisation to eliminate Ntuli.   Pete Ntuli'scase had been discussed at several (indistinct) at the Joint InformationCentre which was a sub-section of the Joint Management Systemwhich consisted only of the police, military intelligence, thearmy itself, only the intelligence community as such were involvedin this Joint Information Centre.   All the security informationavailable had been discussed, as well as all the incidents and
1b possible /...
MR DU PLESSIS 556 J H CRONJE
possible actions were discussed.   The decisions then made werereferred to the State Security Council who then took the finaldecision.

<UNKNOWN>: A moment, you are saying that this was discussed,were you personally present?

ANSWER: I had sitting on this Joint Information Centre,I was personally present.   It is possible that the decision withregard to Pete Ntuli would have been taken in the Joint InformationCentre and that it would have been confirmed by the State SecurityCouncil via Trevits.   I made several recommendations that PeteNtuli should have been detained under security legislation butI was told time and again that this was not possible since MinisterHeunis, at that time of Constitutional Development, was opposedto the detention.

<UNKNOWN>: We will return to this particular matter withregard to which I will question you.    Brigadier, Dantjie VanWyk at that time in 86 was in charge of a special investigatingteam with regard to unrest in Kwandabele and working with himwere Sgt Gouws and W/O Oosthuizen, they investigated in particularthen the Mbkhoto incidents or incidents in which the Mbkhoto movementwere involved.

CHAIRPERSON: What is this organisation, how do you spellit?

MR DU PLESSIS: : I'm not with you Mr Chairman, which organisation?

CHAIRPERSON: Mbkhoto.

MR DU PLESSIS: : We're not sure if that is the correctspelling Mr Chairman, we're not 100% sure if that is right butthat's the way we thought it is spelt.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, do carry on.
EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS (contd)
1b ANSWER: /...
MR DU PLESSIS 557 J H CRONJE