Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-06-23

CHAIRPERSON: Do you hear the translation?  Can you please come to his assistance, apparently no translation is coming through his headphones?  Ms Moodley, may you repeat your question for the benefit of your client?

MS MOODLEY: Thank you Honourable Chairperson.
	Mr Mngomezulu, I take you back to paragraph 8 which relates to the incident of the shooting.  And I would like you to comment or add or qualify what is contained there if you feel so inclined?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: It was on a Friday morning, Gweni Nglovu who is Thulani Madlala uncle, was shot.  Gweni was then taken to hospital.  At about 11, we went to the hospital to visit him.

MR MALAN: Alright, did you get it?

MS MOODLEY: I got the Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: You were still explaining that it was a particular Friday morning when you were advised that Thulani Madlala's uncle had been shot?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes, before we reached ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: What happened before you got to town?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Before we got to town we tried to enquire as to who had shot Thulani's uncle.  Unfortunately we did not get that information but the ammunition that had been used, it had come from the area that Amabumvu stayed in.  We then went to the hospital to check on Gweni's condition.	On our arrival, we discovered that he had been shot but he was not in a very serious condition.
	On our way back from the hospital we were travelling in a van, that is a van belonging to the family of Thulani.  When we arrived at the taxi rank we found a lot of people waiting there.  We then requested that the van should at least give transport to those people, to take them to their township.  The van then proceeded to the township and I remained with Thulani.  Moosa was the driver and he was in the company of Intunzi Indelani when they went to the township.
	As we were still standing there at the rank Mr Christopher Phewa approached, he was in the company of Detrix and some of his other friends that I did not know.  As he approached the rank his manner was very aggressive and he showed Detrix that he was one of the people who had killed his father, he was pointing a finger at me at that time.  On seeing this I asked him if he had witnessed me doing this or if he was present when the incident took place but because we had a very poor relationship to such an extent that if you see or if we saw one another we would just attack or shoot one another if we had a chance.  On realising that my life could be in danger I drew my gun, a 7.65, and shot at him.  If I'm not mistaken, I think I fired four shots at him because my ...(indistinct) was damaged.
	After I shot him he fell to the ground and I tried to flee.  Thulani then approached him and I'm not sure how many shots he fired at him.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose or were you still proceeding to give your evidence?  Yes, is he still proceeding?

MS MOODLEY: Yes.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As I was running I was being chased by White persons as well as some Indian persons.  The police eventually caught up with me.

MR MALAN: What do you mean eventually?  When did the police catch up with you?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I committed this incident it could be - it was a short distance after that incident, it couldn't have been more than two kilometres thereafter.

MR MALAN: Were you being pursued while fleeing?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes I was.

MR MALAN: Thank you, you may continue.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: That is how I was arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence in Exhibit A you state that you fired those shots because you were protecting yourself?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: That was part of it.

CHAIRPERSON: What reason was there besides the statement that was made by Phewa that you were one of the people who had killed his father?  What other reason prompted you to think that your life was in danger?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: It was his manner, the attitude that he approached me as well as the situation between myself and his colleagues.  There was war between us, there were Amabumvu and the ANC and they called us robbers and they had a separate leader who had been or who was an ex-ANC member.  That was the situation that prompted me to think that if I do not defend myself I will lose my life because at that time I was Mr Mkhize's follower.

CHAIRPERSON: At that time did you see if Phewa or his companions were armed?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I cannot be too certain about them because they did not come closer to us, the only people who came close to me was Phewa and his friend Detrix.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Phewa and Detrix armed?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I would be lying, I'm not sure, I do not know.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not see anything in their possession, maybe in their hands?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Because of how quick this whole thing happened, I did not notice anything.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean when you say you wanted him?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As I mentioned before, the relationship between us was very bad, to such an extent that if we meet there was something that was going to happen between us.  It's either I or they that would die.

CHAIRPERSON: In your affidavit you explain that Mr Teaspoon Mkhize's son had been killed.   When did this happen?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: The son, Mr Mkhize's son died before this war erupted between the SACP and the ANC, he was killed by IFP members.  I think it happened in '92, 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: It had happened before there was a split in the ANC which led to the formation of this group Amabumvu?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes that's true.

CHAIRPERSON: When did your father die?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: He died in 1993 but he did not die as a result of the political conflict, he was just a sickly person.
	I then returned from my hide out to attend his funeral.  I then could not return because of the situation at the time because there was no one to look after the home.  I was therefore forced not to return to where I had been.

CHAIRPERSON: What problems did you have, what was the source
of your conflicts between yourself and the Amabumvu?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: What I can say is that the Amabumvu did not want to understand the situation.  Mr Mkhize tried several times to broker some peace between us.   He even called on Mr Gwala to explain to them that ANC and SACP were not enemies, they did not understand that.  Mr Blade Msimande even came to explain the same thing and they did not want to understand that because they wanted to commit and achieve their own objectives in the name of the SACP.  I knew that the SACP and ANC were allies but because of these boys, the acts that they committed as well as for the fact that I and Mr Mkhize resided in the same section and I was the follower of Mr Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you are speaking too fast for the translators to be able to pick up everything that you are saying.  They are struggling, they are trying to translate at a breath breaking speed.  You are making their jobs very difficult.  I am going to repeat my question.  I will now address you in English because I think it's important for the Committee to understand the nature of the conflict that existed between your group and the Amabumvu group.  Will you slowly repeat what you have just stated?  I myself was unable to keep up with you because I'm listening to you in Zulu and trying to listen to the translators in English.
	What was the nature of the conflict?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: What I can say is we had a commander Mr Blade Msimande.  Because of that position he was very close to Mr Mkhize.  I think there was something that they could not see eye to eye with Blade because when Amabumvu was formed there was another person called, his name was Mkhize.  He is the person who then became their leader, he removed these boys who had been guarding Mr Mkhize.  He then managed to get a lot of these boys away from Mr Mkhize.