Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR MBAMBO: I would say plus minus R5 000 because there was R2 000 that I received M R Mkhize, he was in fact shutting me up, he didn't want me to talk about it because we had realised or discovered that the guns that had been brought to him by Citi Mtetwa  were supposed to be distributed within the police and he was not supposed to sell those guns but he did so.  	He gave me this amount of R2 000 so that I would not report him.

MR HEWIT: And are you talking about a person who was a member of the hit squad?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: So it came to your knowledge that a member of the hit squad was in fact stealing money that was earmarked for other purposes?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Did any other crimes like this, theft of trust money in effect, come to your attention amongst members of this hit squad?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Did all members of the hit squad receive sums of money at various points of time from various different people for the jobs they did?

MR MBAMBO: They would receive money but not for the activities that they carried out.

MR HEWIT: What would they receive money for then?

MR MBAMBO: In case of their personal needs like furniture instalments and such other things.

MR HEWIT: In other words sums of money which would make their standard of living better?

MR MBAMBO: You will say that if you like.

MR HEWIT: So the hit squad members then were not doing what they were doing simply for love of their particular ideology but they were also making a tidy bit on the side?

MR MBAMBO: Even if I did not receive the money, because the money issue was not even discussed initially, I would have carried out these activities for the IFP.  So, the money was not an issue but our love and patriotism of the organisation and for the Zulu people inspired us to carry out these activities.

MR HEWIT: The receipt of this extra money must have made your work more attractive, correct?

MR MBAMBO: You would say that.

MR HEWIT: So it would be an over simplification to say that you simply did what you did for ideological reasons but you were also somewhat of a higher dun and so were other members of your group?

MR MBAMBO: No, that is not correct.

MR HEWIT: When you joined the police did you have a motorcar?

MR MBAMBO: No, I did not.

MR HEWIT: Did you ever own a motorcar during your membership of the KwaZulu Police Force?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: What motorcars did you own?

MR MBAMBO: A VW Jetta and BMW 328I, 320I.

MR HEWIT: Yes, any other motor vehicles?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Now those two motor vehicles which you have mentioned, did you own either of them at the same time?  In other words have two motor vehicles together?

MR MBAMBO: No, it was at different periods.

MR HEWIT: When Nati Gumede was murdered, what motor vehicle did you have?

MR MBAMBO: I did not have a car.

MR HEWIT: Was Nati Gumede the person that you had bought a motor vehicle from?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: What motor vehicle was that?

MR MBAMBO: The VW Jetta.

MR HEWIT: And at the time he was murdered, did you still have that blue VW Jetta?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Where was that Jetta then?

MR MBAMBO: I have no idea.

MR HEWIT: Well when you bought the Jetta from him, didn't you say in your affidavit that you took in for various repairs?

MR MBAMBO: That's correct.

MR HEWIT: Were the repairs effected to that VW Jetta?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, but they hadn't completed the repairs.

MR HEWIT: So where was the VW Jetta then when Nati Gumede was murdered?

MR MBAMBO: It was no longer at the panel beaters at Richards Bay.  They said somebody had come and fetched the car.  I went to the vehicle theft unit in Empangeni and saw Warrant Officer Cloete because he knew about the car.  I asked him about it and he said he didn't have any information.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying Mr Mbambo, that that vehicle was stolen?

MR MBAMBO: I would say that it was stolen although Cloete thought that Nati could have taken it.

MR HEWIT: Did you have your BMW motor vehicle up until the time you bought the Jetta from Nati Gumede?

MR MBAMBO: No, I bought it thereafter.

MR HEWIT: Yes, but did you get rid of the BMW just before you bought the Jetta?

MR MBAMBO: I did not have a car before I owned the Jetta.

MR HEWIT: For how long a period of time was it that you didn't own a car?

CHAIRPERSON: Between the VW and the BMW?

MR HEWIT: Between the BMW and the Jetta?

MR MBAMBO: I think it was about two or three months.

MR HEWIT: Now Brian Mkhize, did he have a motorcar?

MR MBAMBO: He had a Mazda 323.

MR HEWIT: A Mazda 323?

MR MBAMBO: Yes.

MR HEWIT: And did he have that Mazda 323 at the time of Nati Gumede's murder?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: At the time of the murder, round about that time you used to see Brian Mkhize driving that Mazda 323?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: Who was the other person that committed the murder on Nati Gumede with you, apart from Mkhize and yourself?

MR MBAMBO: Israel Hlongwane, Zwele Dlamini, Andile Xele.

MR HEWIT: Alright, let's deal with Israel Hlongwane, did he have a motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: No, he did not.

MR HEWIT: Are you saying that Israel Hlongwane never owned a motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: Who was the other person you mentioned?

MR MBAMBO: Zwele Dlamini, did he have a motor car at that stage, round about the time of Nati Gumede's murder?

MR MBAMBO: No, he did not, he used a vehicle from the IFP offices.

MR HEWIT: And this other person you mentioned, I think it was Andile Xele, did he have a motor vehicle at the time?

MR MBAMBO: No, he did not.

MR HEWIT: Right, now is there any particular reason why you couldn't have gone to Durban to kidnap Nati Gumede, using Brian Mkhize's Mazda 323?

MR MBAMBO: We wouldn't have used ...[indistinct] car because it was his personal car and not for these activities.

MR HEWIT: Is that the only reason you wouldn't have used his car?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: Not because it could be recognised?

MR MBAMBO: No, you could have changed the registration numbers.

MR HEWIT: Now what vehicle do you say you were given to perform this murder?

MR MBAMBO: It was a white Open Monza.

MR HEWIT: And you drove to Durban in this Monza to kidnap Gumede?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: Now whose Open Monza was this?

MR MBAMBO: It belonged to the Chief Minister's Department.

MR HEWIT: With official government number plates on?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR HEWIT: So, is your evidence that your private car - was your private car ever used for any operation?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Was Brian Mkhize's private car ever used for any operation?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Were the cars of any of the members of the hit squad, their private cars, ever used for any operation?

MR MBAMBO: Except for Bebe Biela's.

MR HEWIT: And every time you used Biela's motor vehicle, did you change number plates or just drive the motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, we did change the number plates.

MR HEWIT: So he was happy each time for you to change his number plates for these operations?

MR MBAMBO: Yes, we changed our plates regularly.

MR HEWIT: And was this his private motor vehicle, not a government motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: As far as we knew it was a car allocated to him as the Mayor of eSikhawini.

MR HEWIT: Now, didn't you also use, according to you, Mrs Mbuaze's motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: No.

MR HEWIT: Did you never drive her motor vehicle?

MR MBAMBO: Mrs Mbuaze's vehicle?

MR HEWIT: Yes.

MR MBAMBO: I drove it many times.

MR HEWIT: And when you drove it on those other occasions, were the number plates left on or did you change those number plates?

MR MBAMBO: I would use it with it's original number plates.

MR HEWIT: And did you often drive in that car with her as well?