Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1999-02-02

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Firstly I will deal with the quarry incident.  I would submit to this Committee that the evidence that has been presented by Mr Gumengu cannot be accepted because it is difficult for us to visualise exactly what happened when they reached the quarry.  I would urge the Committee to accept the evidence that he has been presented by the last witness as the more probable because even if you take Mr Gumengu's testimony there are contradictions in the statements that he made and those that have been presented to this court.  I'm referring in particular to the bundle, page 16, and if I may point directly to the middle of that page where he says, it's in Afrikaans:
"In die buitewerke van die Staat het ek Sthembele Zokwe beveel om uit die voertuig uit te klim en my te volg"
	And following that paragraph, what is contained in that paragraph is in total contradiction to what he has presented to this Committee, he even in the affidavit admits that he fired two shots which he has denied when he was presenting evidence.  It is my submission to the Committee that as for the incident in the quarry, the witness has not made a full disclosure of what exactly happened.  He seems to be hiding behind an instruction that he had to kill Zokwe but even those instructions at times when he was supposed to have executed them, he seems to have a reason not to have done so because instead of making so that at the quarry he shoots to carry out the incident, the only reason that he shot him was that he was running and it was only as a hindsight that he says:  "in fact I even heard the instructions to kill him anyway".  
	And if we go to the final killing at the homestead it is my submission that as for the evidence that has been presented there was never any intention to kill, they, both witnesses, did it in self-defence and my submission is that they should not have come to this Committee to ask for amnesty because all their actions were done in self-defence.  That is all I will submit.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mnqandi, Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I have no submission, thank you.
NO ARGUMENT BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mapoma.  Mr Malan, any reply?

MR MALAN: I've got nothing further thank you Chairperson.
NO REPLY BY MR MALAN

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes, that concludes this part of the proceedings.  The Panel will consider the evidence and the arguments that were submitted to us and we will formulate a decision as soon as the circumstances permit us to do so.  So in the circumstances we would reserve the decision in this matter and we will notify the parties as soon as that decision is available.
	We express our gratitude and thanks again, Mr Malan, for your assistance and Mr Mnqandi, Mr Mapoma.  Is there anything else on the roll here?

MR MAPOMA: There is nothing on the roll now Chairperson because the matter that was supposed to follow has already been - arrangement has been made that it be removed from this roll, it will be reinstated later on.

CHAIRPERSON: So that concludes our proceedings here?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, we would then just express our thanks to everybody who has assisted us in having this session here.  It normally goes with a great deal of effort to be able to have proceedings of this nature and we are always grateful to all those people who are assisting us in that regard.  A part of the Panel will proceed to some further business that we have to do so at this stage I would like to just take my colleague, Judge Miller, for his assistance here, he would not be joining us on a further leg of our hearings and we also appreciate the presence of the members of the public because after all this process is a public one and it's important for the people to be part of it and to witness the process.  We appreciate your presence and again our gratitude to those people who have assisted us in having this hearing.  	We are now adjourned.
HEARING ADJOURNS