Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-03-27

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And did you refuse to join the CCB?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes, I refused.

MR DUKADA: Can you turn to page 16 of your affidavit, can you read from the words "I never participated ..."

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just before you proceed Mr Dukada, I've just read this very briefly prior to starting and one thing came to mind.  Are you sure it's the CCB, or was it not C10?  It's just that the use of - he says that they used askaris and as far as I know, the askaris were used by C10, rather than the CCB.  I don't know, maybe if your client could just clarify that.

MR LAX: C10, just for your information, was Vlakplaas.

CHAIRPERSON: C10 is Vlakplaas, it's commonly known as Vlakplaas, that was under the command of de Kock, Eugene de Kock and Coetzee at the time, in Pretoria, but they were from time to time in the East London area in particular as well.  They made the use of askaris.

MR DUKADA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, Honourable Member, the witness will explain the terminology.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: This term CCB, I do not know about it, I only knew the Vlakplaas branch that was in East London. In one farm that was East London, I also assisted the TRC to go and point out that farmhouse.  When I left Umtata I was going to assist in the investigation because it was said that a so-called terrorist was arrested in East London, but when I arrived there there was no terrorist.  I was then taken to a farm, it was late in the night, I was taken to a farmhouse outside town.  We were driving in a tinted kombi.  This kombi was full, I was sitting in a certain space, occupying a certain space, not the seat, facing the opposite direction as the kombi was going forward.  I couldn't see the road ...(intervention)

MR DUKADA: Sorry Captain, just to make the story very brief.  Is it correct that there was an attempt for you to join the Vlakplaas Police branch?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And you declined to join the Vlakplaas.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes.

MR DUKADA: And requested that you be returned to Umtata immediately.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: In fact you did return to Umtata and you have absolute no knowledge about the Vlakplaas activities.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: Yes.  And you say in your affidavit that time and again you'd see a tinted minibus in Umtata, with black persons who would be identified as askaris and they were in the company of a certain van Wyk from the SAP.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And it transpired to you that the Transkei Security Branch had something to do with the askaris in Transkei.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: What askaris?

MR DUKADA: No, no, what I'm saying is, just for your convenience, if you can just turn to page 16 of your affidavit, that's where you say that - you say
"When I was recruited to join CCB, a certain person who had been left with me in East London, identified himself as an askari and told me about the activities of askaris and their cooperation with the SAP and Transkei Police Force."

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And you deny having worked with any askaris or any member of Vlakplaas or the CCB in Transkei.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I never worked with any of them.

MR DUKADA: Right, if you can turn to page 17 of your affidavit, paragraph 17.1.  Whilst you were a member of the Security Police in 1989, you also encountered two ANC detainees, Mayapi and Zambian(?), is that correct?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And at times you would have discussions or conversations with the two detainees about political issues.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And the two detainees would tell you about the exact role of the ANC in South Africa.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: Did you become convinced by the teachings of the two detainees?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Those were the people who managed to persuade me.

MR DUKADA: And then you stopped assaulting and torturing detainees.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I never assaulted anyone thereafter.

MR DUKADA: Now in 1990 you were transferred from the Transkei Security Branch to the Head Office in Botha Sigcau building and there you stopped doing security duties at all.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And according to your affidavit, your duty was merely to sort out the mail in the offices.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes, I was sorting mail.

MR DUKADA: Now you enquired from the police as to the reasons why you had since been stopped now from performing security duties, is that correct?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I didn't hear the question.

MR DUKADA: Now when you were transferred from the Norwood Security Branch to Botha Sigcau building to sort out mail, did you enquire as to why you were transferred from the Security Branch?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I was told.

MR DUKADA: Is it your evidence that you were accused by your Commander of being argumentative and uncooperative at the Security Branch?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: And later you were transferred from Botha Sigcau building to the Anti-Riot Unit in Bangaliso Police Station, where you remained until Transkei became reincorporated.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct.

MR DUKADA: The last incident at paragraph 19 of your affidavit, page 18.  During the course of consultation you explained an incident relating to the attempted coup against the then Gen Holomisa.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: That is correct, I indicated that.

MR DUKADA: And you were told by a member of the Military Intelligence of the Transkei Defence Force, to be part of an operation which was to thwart an attempted coup.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I was not going to be involved in the coup, we were going to attack the people who were going to overthrow the government.

MR DUKADA: Yes sorry, Captain, to put it ...(indistinct), I intended asking a different question.  Can you read from paragraph 19.3 of your affidavit.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Point 3.

MR DUKADA: 19.3, at page 19.

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: Yes.
"On the night in question, at about 12 midnight, I was given an R1 rifle and driven to a quarry ..."
...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: That's the quarry you refer to above, that's the quarry next to the Tescor premises.

MR DUKADA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: It should be Tescor, with an "r" at the end, the Transkei Electricity Supply Corporation.
MR SIQHOLA
"The driver, instead of taking the route towards the direction of Qogolweni administrative barrier, took a turn and proceeded towards the Tescor.  The security guards at Tescor drew out firearms and we surrendered.  We were delayed by the security guards because they did not know us.  While we were being questioned by the guards, we heard gunshots from the direction of the quarry.  We did not go to the quarry subsequently.  Subsequently I learnt that the minibus was damaged and people were seriously injured.  Later I learnt that one of the occupants of the minibus died as a result of injuries sustained during the shooting."

MR DUKADA: Is it your evidence, Captain, that you don't know the names of the persons who were inside the minibus?

NELSON NKOSINATHI SIQHOLA: I was even scared to ask them their names, even those who were in my company, I couldn't ask their names.

MR DUKADA: And lastly, Captain, can you read from paragraph 20.1 of your affidavit.
MR SIQHOLA
"In retrospect I realise that I caused great harm and suffering to a number of innocent persons, including those referred to above.  I sincerely apologise to those who were victims of my ill-treatment while in detention.  I humbly pray the Honourable Committee to grant me amnesty."