Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.  I am now going to ask Mr Ngolbeni if he will stand to take the oath.

MR NGOLBENI: (Duly sworn, states).

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, you may be seated.  Mr Ngolbeni, you are going to tell us about your younger brother who also died in that incident.  Will you tell us what his name was, how old he was and whether he was at school or whether he was employed, before you begin to tell us about what you learnt about this incident.

MR NGOLBENI: I will start by saying this.  He was actually a scholar. He was at Bosho Primary School, doing Std 5. What I am going to say here, is not what I have seen, but is what I have heard.
 It was during the day. I was not there at home, but it was said that there will be a meeting at school.  This meeting was actually to explain to the people about the struggle and about the freedom, and to teach people the freedom songs.  
 I was not there, as I have already said. As I came back from home, because we had a night vigil somewhere, as a member of the congregation.  When I came back I only slept.  I did not notice anything. I wasn't aware whether there was any freedom songs or slogans chanted. I don't know.  
 What I remember the morning thereafter, it was a Monday. I realised that well, something has changed here at school.  As we entered the classroom, some were looking at me. I did not realise what is happening now.  At one stage I realised maybe there is something wrong with me.  Now later on when already the classes were on, it was then that I learnt that some children had been shot.  As I was listening to that and I saw police and soldiers coming in.  NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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They never asked anything. Instead they dispersed us.  Everyone took his own direction. At round about three o'clock they were going from house to house, because they had expressed that at school. They found me in one of the houses.  They did not know that I am related to that particular family.  They said to me your brother, younger brother has been shot at. I took it very easy, because they did not say he is dead. They only said he had been shot at, amongst those who had been shot yesterday.
 Well, I have already heard that some were injured, some were shot, but I did not hear that one of my brothers is also amongst those.
 When I came home I was told that they were at Shongwa and from there they had been transferred to Ngondeni.  So that they can remove the bullets which were there. I don't exactly know where the bullets were lodged.  As we were preparing ourselves to go to Ngondeni Hospital and from there we were told that they will be transferred to Pretoria.
 The following day I was told that he is now in Pretoria. By late in the evening we were told that he is already dead.  
 So the other things are what have been mentioned here already. I thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  Could you tell me whether there was any investigation of this incident that came to your knowledge?

MR NGOLBENI: As far as I am concerned there was no investigation on the matter.  But some people who were prepared to assist us, but there was nothing that they could do.  That time we had a person who was the mayor at Naas who NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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wanted to assist us.  He tried by all means in order to find out exactly what was the reason behind.  He was always inter-acting with the police to find out exactly the reasons and the motive behind the shooting.  But he could not get anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you ever go to a lawyer yourself?

MR NGOLBENI: At that time let me say this, in our minds we were so disappointed, to such an extent, that we could not even make a move, because we were told you are not allowed to move in the street at night. If you are found you will be charged.

YASMINE SOOKA: It was the state of emergency then.

MR NGOLBENI: Yes, it was during the state of emergency.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much.  I am going to ask the Chairperson if she is going to ask the other people if they want to ask you questions.

CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you.  I will ask Mr Malan maybe to ask questions in order to clarify certain issues.

MR MALAN: Mr Ngolbeni, thank you very much.  I am still concerned about the perspectives and motives of the policemen who did the shooting. The Act enjoins us to find out also what the motives and perspectives of perpetrators were.  Now Nonsa in her evidence and in her statement, says that you were returning from a farewell to those students who had to go back to boarding school. I will come back to what you say in your statement.  You did say it is what you heard it is not what you saw.  Anthony in his evidence, said that the shooting took place at this four-way stop, still quite a way from the home of this constable, the policeman Mangezi. In your statement which is in writing before us, you say that you were told that eh meeting was a meeting to
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teach the people about resistance and teaching them freedom songs, which is a different purpose. You also say that the shooting, you were told the shooting came from the home of Mangezi, as the students were passing the home, shooting came from there. Now can you tell us who gave you this information?

MR NGOLBENI: At that time you could listen to everything that was told to you from your peer group and from whomever. That is why I said earlier on that what I am going to say is not what I have seen, but this thing happened. Now when I came home I slept innocently, not knowing exactly what happened. I was staying alone.  This boy actually who died, he was not actually staying with me, he was staying with my other mother.
 Now after this incident when I wanted to know more, to know exactly which street were they following when they got shot at, they said they had been shot by Mr Mangezi, but I have not seen Mr Mangezi shooting him. The hearsay says he has been shot by Mangezi.

MR MALAN: I think that is sort of common cause at least, in terms of the oral history, but that is not the issue. We are trying to find out why did Mr Mangezi do it, and also, where did it take place.  Was the evidence about the shooting not having taken place, not having taken place from Mangezi's home but from a car.  I guess that was news to you when you heard Anthony talk about that. The question as to the purpose of the party when you heard Nonsa speak, that it was simply to say good-bye to students going back to boarding school.  That must have also been news or have you heard those versions before?

MR NGOLBENI: I will say this.  They were shot at while they NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
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were singing but walking along the street. I don't know exactly what was happening at (indistinct) High School at that time. I don't know that.  All that I know, is that they were shot at and they were shot by Mangezi, together with his colleagues.  But I am told that amongst the police there was a white police officer. I am not sure, I never attended the funeral, but I am told that he passed away.

MR MALAN: Why do you think the police shot at the group?

MR NGOLBENI: In the first place I would say it was the very first day that the comrades were singing freedom songs.  More especially in that area, we were not (indistinct), w did not know anything about the struggle. It was for the first time to make - I think the police now, their aim was sort of to stop these people, because they were making people aware of the struggle.
 Secondly, is that as police officers, in other words, if they had to pass where they are, it was a sign of that they don't respect them in a way. That's what I can say.

MR MALAN: That helps me a lot, than you very much.