Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-23

CHAIRPERSON: That's stretching it.   Mr Khaba, is there any particular reason why you did not, in your application, say that when you shot at the deceased, that you did so because of instructions from your commander?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Chairperson, I'm not fluent in English, but I think if you have to scan the whole application, I don't think that I mentioned the person's name, but I've furnished a lot of detail with regard to the killing and everything pertaining to the killing.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, let me tell you that your writing isn't so good as well, I can't understand this.   Will you take the time tonight to read through this application and tomorrow morning you point out to us where and what you said, and I'm going to give Mr Hattingh a chance to ask you about it.   Is that okay?   I'm going to adjourn to half past eight tomorrow morning, because we're finishing early.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khaba, you are still under oath to speak the truth, do you understand that?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Khaba, if we turn to page 43 of the bundle, that is the page for your application in paragraph (b) you are, in terms of this application form, requested to write down your justification regarding the acts, omissions or offences associated with a political motive - objective, do you see that?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I understand that when we adjourned last time Mr Khaba was given an exercise, a request to go through this document to explain why he did not specifically mention - but if ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: No, that's not quite true.  All I asked him to do was read through his document to ascertain what he said where and so that he would be in a position to answer the questions should the questions be directed in that line.

MR HATTINGH: Thank you Mr Chairman, I misunderstood.
	Mr Khaba, perhaps we could just clarify this issue.  Did you read through your application last night?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: Sorry, what was the answer?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes I did.

MR HATTINGH: Did you do it with the assistance of any interpreter?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: The people that I was with were helping me, explaining to me where I did not understand.

MR HATTINGH: What I mean is last night when you went through your application form, with whose assistance did you peruse the contents thereof, if you had assistance at all?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Some of my inmates were helping me - Umlindo.

MR HATTINGH: Now do you now understand, full understand the full contents of your application?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: If we then look at paragraph (b) on page 43 where in terms of this form you are requested to indicate your justification for those acts - again I do not see any reference to Mr Gushu having given you the instruction, a specific instruction to execute Obed.  Can you explain that?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes it is not stated here.  I would like for you to understand the position I was in when I wrote this statement.  It is because I was in jail.  I did try to get hold of a form written in isiZulu but I was not able to and only this English form was available.  No explanation was forthcoming as to how to go about filling this form because I had just been granted this opportunity to apply for amnesty and I had to just fill in the form after which I did not realise that there would be a problem such that I went as far as writing the statement with my lawyer.

MR HATTINGH: At the time when you completed this application form did you understand at the time that you were required to ask for amnesty for certain incidents?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Yes.

MR HATTINGH: And whatever and wherever you noted it on the form did you also understand at the time that you were required to state the reasons why you committed this particular act?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: Will you please repeat your question?

MR HATTINGH: When you completed this application form for amnesty - at the time when you completed this form, did you also understand that you were supposed to give the reasons for your actions for which you were applying for amnesty?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is why I have explained to you that I am not well conversant in English, there are some areas that I do not fully understand.  That is why there was such a mistake in this form.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are saying that further to mention the actual instructor was a mistake?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: As far as I knew, I took it that every information that I have filled in was correct.  I only realised now that it was a mistake because there was no clear explanation.

MR HATTINGH: But Mr Khaba you very well did give reasons for your actions at the time when you completed this application form and one of those reasons afforded to you at the time was that you acted in self defence because you were endangered, your life was endangered, that's why you shot at Obed, is that correct?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: And another reason ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Let us just clear that.  What do you mean by your life - you yourself or your group with which you associated?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I am particularly referring to the life of the community including myself because I'm part of that community.

MR HATTINGH: On that night when you went to the disco, did you go to the disco to execute Mr Obed?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I went to the disco to protect members of the community.

MR HATTINGH: This is also a fact which you did not mention in your application for amnesty, is that correct?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I trust that there is an instance in the application form perhaps where I indicated that my life and that of the community were in danger.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Khaba, the question is - at the time when you went to the disco your reasons were, according to your own evidence, that you wanted to protect the community?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: What I say is that again this is not set out in your application form?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I trust there is a place where I have indicated that I committed this offence because the community was in danger because they were being attacked and harassed by members of the Black Cats.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you show us that part?

MR BLACK: May I just refer to page 44 - 11(b), this is possibly the word which Mr Hattingh couldn't make out yesterday.  Third line
"they're trying to kill", then it's "us, the community and me."  "Indube Tonight Disco"

MR HATTINGH: Is that where you noted that you went to the disco to guard the community, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: He didn't say that.  He said he went to protect not guard.  If you read that paragraph he explains what he did to protect the community.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Khaba, I put it to you that this whole version of yours that you had to go to the disco because of problems caused by the Black Cats at the disco and that you went there to protect the community is a fabrication of the event, is something that you thought out afterwards.

CHAIRPERSON: On what basis are you putting that Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: If you would allow me I will then first put the basis.
	You sent through a criminal trial, is that correct?

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: Did you ever at any stage mention this version at the criminal trial, that you went to the disco to protect the community?  I ...[indistinct] can assist you, you never did.

BONGANI WILBERFORCE KHABA: I do not remember quite well what I said in court.