Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MS ZIQUBU: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: I will ask my colleague, Mr Mdu Dlamini, to assist you with your evidence.

MR DLAMINI: Good morning, Mrs Ziqubu.

WITNESS:   I can't hear you.

MR DLAMINI: We are so grateful to have you with us here this morning.  How are you doing at home?

WITNESS:   We are doing fine.

MR DLAMINI: How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have three children.

MR DLAMINI: How old are they?

WITNESS:   My first-born was born in 1956.

MR DLAMINI: What is he doing?

WITNESS:   He is a private teacher.

MR DLAMINI: And the second one?

WITNESS:   That one was born in 1968.  He is also a teacher.

MR DLAMINI: And the third one?

WITNESS:   Was born in 1968.

MR DLAMINI: What is he doing?

WITNESS:   He is also teaching.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, and we also like to thank God for the power that he has given to you for having been able to bring up your children so that they can stand on their own.  Before we get into the matter I would like you to explain the situation so that the Commission, as it will be listening to you, and also the people around you, can get the clear picture.  Can you tell us how old was your husband when he died?

WITNESS:   He was 62 years old.

MR DLAMINI: Did this all happen while you were at Mpumalanga township at Hammarsdale?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR DLAMINI: After that you ran away from the place to stay at Umgababa, and how are you doing at Umgababa?

WITNESS:   No, we are fine.  Everything it's okay.

MR DLAMINI: In your statement we discovered that your husband was an IFP member and he was working within the community to help the people.  Can you briefly explain exactly how he worked for the community, and also his role under the IFP.  Before we can get into what happened please briefly tell us about his involvement.

WITNESS:   My husband was a churchgoer.  The community used to call him Umfundisi, that is reverend, although he was not a reverend.  We were Presbyterians, and we were under Reverend S A Khumalo from Umlazi, from V Section.

MR DLAMINI: Is this Mr Sam Khumalo?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's Reverend Sam Khumalo.  He built a temple at Unit 1, Mpumalanga South.  He finished the temple and it was opened.  We had our church services at that place.  That was at Unit 1 South Mpumalanga.

MR DLAMINI: Just a bit can you explain to us, as you said he was a preacher at the Presbyterian Church, we heard that you used to have people especially to sort of like to give services at funerals, and that's where he got this name Umfundisi.  At that time he was working for a textile industry at Hammarsdale.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us his involvement with the IFP?

WITNESS:  While he was under the IFP my husband had a tuck shop in a place called Sankonji(?).  He was working together with Mr Gogo.  He was his assistant.

MR DLAMINI: This Mr Gogo is dead?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.  This Mr Gogo was his assistant, and they were all working together in the IFP, elected by the people.  At that time everything was in order and there was nothing wrong.  At the beginning of the violence people were dying, people were attacked, and we were all confused, we didn't know what was happening.  I remember one day there was a meeting at the school called Esikongeni.  My husband used to speak.  Especially when speaking he was frank and firm in whatever he wants to say.  During the meeting, when people were talking about the violence, there was Mr Ngihle, who was also working with my husband.  This man I am talking about was also there.  All this Mr Ngihle grew up with my husband.  They were used to him and they were friends.  When they were busy discussing about the violence issue my husband stood up and said, "If it is Inkatha who is doing all this it means we have to resign from the organisation."  There was no answer for that, and it was just one of the speeches that were given at that time, and things continued.  Things started to happen.  I had children, male children.  We were now all afraid because of the violence in the place.  You could see the children walking around were not safe.  They started pointing out families which were supposed to be burned.  We were all afraid because of all this.  Meetings continued to be held in the place where we were.  There was Mr Mlaba at that time.  He was the leader during the meetings.

MR DLAMINI: This Mlaba, is he one of the leaders, well known leaders at Mpumalanga, who happened to bring about the peaceful resolution of Mpumalanga?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: He's the one who is the mayor at the present moment?

WITNESS:   No, I don't remember well, because I don't stay there any more.  We had meetings.  As I said before people were all afraid, they didn't know what was happening, but it happened that they elected my husband to be the leader at the area in which we were staying.  Men used to go out patrolling the place, especially at night.  My husband used to join them in the patrolling process.  He decided to stop patrolling because he was afraid that he could be killed at night.

MR DLAMINI: In order to put our records straight, because your husband was working for IFP at that time, it means that the people whom they used to meeting holding firearms or arms, who were not in good terms with them, were they IFP members?

WITNESS:   Yes, they were IFP members.  People used to talk about exactly what was happening, asking, "Why do we have to leave other people?"  And it happened that they stopped patrolling the place.

MR DLAMINI: After that are you trying to tell us that your husband disassociated himself with the watch operations?  Did he also disassociate himself from the IFP activities?

WITNESS:   I don't remember well, but what I know is that he was no longer following the IFP views and policies, but you couldn't say that he was no longer working for them.  But he could see that everything was bad, and he could see exactly what was the cause of that.

MR DLAMINI: Especially with him as a Christian it means life was a bit difficult for him in that situation?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us, while you were at home with your husband in October 1989, what happened?

WITNESS:   My husband came back from work.  It was in the evening.  During those days it was very bad.  People who wake up in the morning and go to work, you were not able to tell whether the person would come back alive.  Some were taken out from taxis to work and killed.  My husband came back from work on that day.  He arrived at home.  I prepared supper for him.  My children were all around, and my grandchildren.  There was also my eldest daughter and my grandchildren.  They were all staying with me, and these were two grandchildren.  They were sitting watching TV in the dining-room.  Myself I was sitting with my husband in the kitchen.  Before any - before there was anything happening at that time I saw outside - we used to go outside to feed our chickens.  I saw a red car, and there was a young man. I remember well he was running, coming between the houses, and he was running towards the car.  We were standing just outside the door, and he just passed nearby as my family house is at the corner.  I saw him drive away.  He passes us, he looked at us.  To me that didn't mean anything because cars used to pass by.

MR DLAMINI: I would like to disturb you before I forget.  This young man who was running towards the car, did you know the young man?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't know the young man.

MR DLAMINI: The driver who looked at you, was he a person who was familiar to you?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't know him.  I used to see this car passing around, but I didn't know this young man.

MR DLAMINI: Does this car belong to any person whom you know?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was Mlaba's car, Sipho Mlaba.

MR DLAMINI: You may continue.