Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

LEON A MAREE: While I was in Germany or in Europe, I received an instruction to remain there, but that my partner had to return.  This was the first time when my partner was informed of what was really going on because I didn't really have any other choice.  My co-ordinator told me what had happened, he told me that Mr Botha had been arrested and that Mr van Zyl had been arrested.  He returned after I had informed him precisely of what was going on.  The other staff members still didn't know what the real situation was and he returned to inform them of the actual position.  I remained and waited for further instructions.

MR P DU PLESSIS: This entire movement which took place surrounding the CCB was established to a greater extent by the fact that the police of Namibia, which at that stage had become independent and particularly Jumbo Smit, was conducting investigations in South Africa into the Lubowski case and it was in terms of this that you were instructed to remain where you were?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: You've already said that with regard to the Lubowski murder you did not perform any role nor did you have any knowledge of the incident itself.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: But by nature of the situation, there are fingers which pointed in your direction over the years and particularly those of a certain Judge Levy, you are aware of his finding that the CCB in Region 6 and particularly your name was mentioned and that you were to have been involved in the matter according to his findings.

LEON A MAREE: I deny this.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.  The final point with regard to the Lubowski matter that I would like to deal with is the report of the TRC to the State President, which was submitted here as Exhibit D.  This matter is dealt with in terms of Lubowski.  There are just one or two aspects about this that I would like to touch upon with you.  Before I get to that, however, after your involvement with the CCB, we know that the Harms Commission came into being early in 1990.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And you returned from Germany?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And you were here at the time of the Harms Commission being in session?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And subsequently the CCB was disbanded and your services were terminated with the CCB by means of a package system?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And it is common cause that from 1991 onwards you once again became involved with the South African Defence Force but with the Department of Covert Collections?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, the DCC.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And until when were you involved there?

LEON A MAREE: Until 1993.

MR P DU PLESSIS: That is the same matter regarding which Mr Wouter Basson gave evidence, namely that there was an investigation by the Goldstone Commission of Inquiry and as a result of this your services were promptly terminated?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Just to return to the report which I've already mentioned, the TRC report.  Mr Chairman I see that the pages are not numbered, it's Exhibit D, one of the pages deals with the killing of Anton Lubowski, but it's not numbered in my bundle or my Exhibit, it's paragraph 1.4.1. and further.

MR LAX: As far as I remember we referred to the specifics paragraphs for record purposes and perhaps you should just continue to do that.  They're all numbered, as far as I understand.

MR P DU PLESSIS: We'll refer to them by paragraph then.  They deal there in paragraph 1.4.6. with the fact that Judge Levy then made certain findings in which you and Chappies Maree were implicated.  Are you aware of that?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And then I can see that Mr Ferdi Barnard's name is also mentioned here as well as a Charles Wilscoat, formerly Nielsen, do you know of such a person?

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Mr Ferdi Barnard, you do confirm that you knew him before your involvement at the CCB?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: The other people are Joe Verster, Staal Burger, Abram Slang van Zyl, Calla Botha and yourself and Wouter Basson and it is then Region 6 as well as the Director General, Joe Verster.  Then Johan Niemoller is mentioned, do you know anything about him?

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Then Schutte we've already dealt with, you also say you do not know him.  Then there's reference to a Christoffel Nel and if you follow the evidence here, it is very clear that it is one Derek from the CCB, this is in paragraph 1.7., did you know this person during your involvement at the CCB?

LEON A MAREE: No, I did not.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Paragraph 1.4.8., said that
"What I've said is it's well established that the CCB was set up as a covert grouping with the purpose, amongst others, of killing political opponents.  So too is the fact that prior to the Lubowski killing, such opponents were subject to extensive target identification or intelligence gathering operations.  It has been established that Lubowski was the subject of such an exercise, an operation conducted by the West Front, South West Africa and Angola section of the Directorate of Cover Collection, DCC, then headed by Brig Koos Louw.  His Deputy Major Geoffrey Burton Price, also known as Arthur Wiltshire, was in charge of the South West African arena."
Now at that stage, we now know that you joined DCC.

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: That was in 1991?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: We are now talking about 1989 with the death of Lubowski.  Did you have any contact at that stage with DCC?

LEON A MAREE: No, I did not even know they existed.

MR P DU PLESSIS: The Defence Force, DCC?

LEON A MAREE: Well I did not know anything about them.

MR P DU PLESSIS: At that stage, did you know Brig Koos Louw at that stage?

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: And Major Geoffrey Burton Price?

LEON A MAREE: I only met him later when I joined the DCC.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What was Price's background?

LEON A MAREE: He was an ex-Rhodesian from the CIO.

MR P DU PLESSIS: What is CIO?

LEON A MAREE: Central Intelligence Organisation.

MR P DU PLESSIS: From the old Rhodesia?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: In other words, he had a military background?

LEON A MAREE: Yes, he had a military background from Rhodesia, that is correct.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Very well.  Then there's reference made in paragraph 149
"The actual eavesdropping operation was undertaken by the tenant Johannes Frederik Verster."
If I'm correct, I think it was also Rich Verster.  Do you know this person?

LEON A MAREE: Yes.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Did you know him in 1989?

LEON A MAREE: No, I met him at a later stage.  I heard about him before he was involved in - I think he went to jail for - I think some Zulu clan hired him to shoot another clan and I think he went to jail for that.

MR P DU PLESSIS: He was a convicted murderer?

LEON A MAREE: That is correct.
MR P DU PLESSIS
"Who provided this information to the Commission.  Verster was still running the surveillance eavesdropping exercise at the time Lubowski was shot.  He told the Commission that he was shot by the killing because we were recruiting him"
That refers to Lubowski,
"and it was the wrong person every to have shot.  He was instructed to return to South Africa immediately after the shooting."
Out of this it's very clear that Rich Verster was involved at DCC during the Lubowski murder, 12th September, 1989.  Are you aware of that?

LEON A MAREE: No.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Are you aware of the fact of the activities of DCC in Namibia?

LEON A MAREE: No, I wasn't.

MR P DU PLESSIS: Of any other Intelligence organisation in Namibia?

LEON A MAREE: A lot of them were involved, but I personally did not know of any operations by any intelligence organisation or any country's Intelligence Services.