Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1996-11-27

ADV POTGIETER: Did you ever notice what happened to that person?

G SIBACA: He ran into the forest.  I don't know what happened in the forest, but he ran into the forest.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Sibaca, were you called to give evidence in this matter?

G SIBACA: My name is not  Sibaca -  it is Sibaca.

CHAIRPERSON: You can just say General -  [indistinct] his name.

ADV POTGIETER: All right - the Chairperson has just given me very good advice.  Perhaps I should just call you General.

G SIBACA: If you just say Sibaca, it is all right, but I am not Sibaca.

ADV POTGIETER: That's fine - I won't  try - I won't try that, I will - with your permission I would call you General.

G SIBACA: Okay.

ADV POTGIETER: Is that all right - now were you - were you...[intervention]

G SIBACA: No, it is all right, you can call me General.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you never called upon to give evidence in court about this incident?

G SIBACA: I was called thrice - first to the Regional court in Wynberg.  Then in the Parow -     sorry, first it was in Cape Town, then Parow and then Wynberg - three times.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you General.   Now just finally - it appears from what you are telling us, that the person who put up his hands was shot after his firearm was taken away.  So he was unarmed when he was shot.

G SIBACA: He was shot after his gun had been taken from him.  They first took the gun from him and then they shot him.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much for your testimony.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you - any questions - Dumisa.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Mr Sibaca,  I just want to ask, you said that after the Cape Times people came, the police arrived, is that so?

G SIBACA: What I said, is that the police arrived after the Cape Times people were there.  This is after they had cleaned the blood off the road.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Was Mbelo  a policeman?

G SIBACA: He was an investigator.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you very much General.

CHAIRPERSON: [indistinct] Pumla Gobodo.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you  [indistinct]  - I just want to be clear, when the police were calling you and the case was investigated, exactly what statement where they requiring from you,  because I couldn't  - your statement you said that the police kept on  calling you and prosecuting you, saying that they are going to arrest you.
They asked how much Mr Bateman have given you, why did the police promise you money - what  is it they wanted from you?

G SIBACA: They wanted to ascertain if I was an eyewitness or if I was just telling a story.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So as they kept on calling you and threatening you - threatening to arrest you, why then did they want to arrest you?

G SIBACA: They were just threatening.  They were trying to ascertain if I was really an eyewitness or perhaps the Cape Times people had bribed me.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: In other words, they wanted you to say that what you had seen was not true.  The Cape Times people had bribed you.

G SIBACA: Yes, that is what they wanted me to do and then they would arrest me after that.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you - Mary Burton.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Chairperson,   Mr Sibaca, is that right - just - it's me.
G

SIBACA: Yes - yes  thank you.

MARY BURTON: You - you remember very clearly what happened on that day, don't you?

G SIBACA: It was a while back,  but I remember quite a lot.

MARY BURTON: I want to check with you - you  said that after you had spoken to the Cape Times the police came and asked you questions, is that right?

G SIBACA: Yes, it is so.

MARY BURTON: Did they take you to the police station to make a statement?

G SIBACA: They would take me to the police station at Bishop Lavis.  They would use their own transportation.  It wasn't just once, it was either twice or thrice.

MARY BURTON: So they started on that day and then on other days as well.

G SIBACA: Yes, ma'am.

MARY BURTON: The reason I am asking is because the statement that we have seen has the date of the 12th  of March on it.

G SIBACA: Was that the day they fetched me?

MARY BURTON: No that was about nine  days after the killings.

G SIBACA: There is none such.

MARY BURTON: But you say that they  came and they took - they asked you questions on several days?

G SIBACA: They started on that very same day, they fetched me that day.

MARY BURTON: And you  also went to the police station on some other days as well.

G SIBACA: Precisely.

MARY BURTON: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you General.   We are also grateful for the way you answer your questions.  We can see that you are very sharp,  because when you say - when we say his name is Chris Bateman, you say well if it is so - you don't necessarily agree to it, you just say well if that's his name - it's all right.
Thank you very much, because you certainly form a very good impression, create a good impression on any people listening because you were very careful, not for instance to speculate.  You were asked what happened to the person who ran into the  bush and you said you don't know.  Whereas it is easy to have tried to make out that  -   [indistinct] and we thank you for your  contribution in our search for the truth.
Thank you for your contribution as we are trying to get to the truth, thank you very much.