Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-26

MR SEMENYA: Mekgwe, at least before the TRC, has said that it was only open hands which Mrs Mandela used in the assault.  He also admits though that in the Richardson trial he had mentioned about the fists and the sjambok but I'm putting it to you now that according to Mekgwe, before the TRC, he said he was only assaulted with the open hand, what's your response?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I do not know what to say, that is what he wanted to tell the Commission, and I am telling you my version, I'm telling you something that happened to me.  I do not know the reason for him to tell you that, he's got his own feelings, I have my own feelings - we are two different people.

MR SEMENYA: In your evidence just now - may I just put it to you that it is incorrect to say that Mrs Mandela participated in the assault on you and the other group?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I am correct, sir. I was present, I am the person who felt the pain, and I believe when you feel the pain you realise this person inflicting pain in you.

MR SEMENYA: Did Miss Falati as well participate in the assault?

BAREND THABISO MONO: According to my recollection I do not remember seeing her taking part in any assault. I do not remember her daughter assaulting me.

MR SEMENYA: In your statement you're saying
"No doctor came to see us at Mrs Mandela's house",
and you use the plural "us". Can I put it pertinently - as far as you know no doctor saw Stompie at Mrs Mandela's house?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I do not remember any doctor coming to see Stompie in our presence.

MR SEMENYA: And in one aspect of your evidence you say Richardson said you must go to the funeral of Mr Mabuza senior?

BAREND THABISO MONO: The funeral of Mr Sipho Mabuza?

MR SEMENYA: You were told by Richardson nevertheless?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, that's Richardson, he even gave us track suits - he gave us track suits to wear.

MR SEMENYA: Did Mrs Mandela say to you that you must go to that funeral?

BAREND THABISO MONO: No.

MR SEMENYA: Now let me quote what you have just told us today. You said
"I was taken to a funeral by her",
meaning Mrs Mandela?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I do not remember saying that, I said the person who gave us track suits was Jerry Richardson.

MR SEMENYA: If the record indicates you said that, you must have been wrong, right?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, if that is what I said, I must have missed your question.

MR SEMENYA: When you went together with Richardson to assault Ikaneng Lerothodi, did Mrs Mandela say to you you must go there?

BAREND THABISO MONO: No.

MR SEMENYA: Sorry, I missed your answer.

BAREND THABISO MONO: The person who told us to go there was Jerry Richardson.

MR SEMENYA: ... [indistinct] that assault on Ikaneng, that it was on the instruction of Mrs Mandela?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I never heard that, sir.

YASMINE SOOKA: Sorry Mr Semenya, my understanding is not that the witness testified that he was instructed by Mrs Mandela to assault Lerothodi Ikaneng, so your cross is a little ...[intervention]

MR SEMENYA: Am I correct, Madam Commissioner, that Richardson's version is going to be that it was on the instruction of Mrs Mandela, and if it is correct we have a witness here who was at that scene.  I'm trying to establish whether Richardson ever mentioned to a co-assault ...[indistinct] that he was operating on the instruction of Mrs Mandela.

MR NTSEBEZA: But is the evidence that you anticipate about Richardson going to be that at the time that the alleged instruction was given, this witness was present?

MR SEMENYA: I do not know, Commissioner Ntsebeza, all I know is if Richardson was committing it on a consensual understanding of the instructions, then this witness will assist me to deny it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Fair enough.

CHAIRPERSON: ... [inaudible] all I'm saying, me, poor layperson, is that that particular piece of evidence is not before us at the moment, and I would have thought that you were canvassing with him - cross-examining him on the evidence that he has given.  I thought that that was what is cross-examination, but then I'm just a retired Archbishop and so don't know a great deal about law.  What I would also be wanting to do is, not to make things difficult at all.  If it is going to be assisting your case, then whatever I was feeling, or whatever the logic seems to be, say you should put it.

MR SEMENYA: Mr Mono, I'm just trying to get your assistance.  It would seem to me the assault on Ikaneng was by you jointly with the others, and I'm trying to establish whether at any stage you understood your participation there and that of others, to have been at the instruction of Mrs Mandela?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I never heard of such an instruction, so I never thought of her involvement.

MR SEMENYA: Let me finally touch one aspect with you. You're telling us that you on an earlier occasion lied about Bishop Verryn?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, that's correct.

MR SEMENYA: Your lie was, according to you, suggested by Richardson?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Yes, before we met with Sydney Mufamadi together with Xoliswa Falati, they called us, they said we should not talk anything about the assault, we should tell them that Paul molested us.  That is the reason why we left the Manse to stay in Mrs Mandela' house.

MR SEMENYA: ...[intervention] allegations about sodomy are a lie, is that correct?

BAREND THABISO MONO: We were only asked once.

MR SEMENYA: You say that once Pelo left the country you began to get scared for your life?

BAREND THABISO MONO: That's correct.

MR SEMENYA: You're not suggesting by that statement that you feared for your life that the threat would be emanating from Mrs Mandela, are you?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I could not tell at that time who took Pelo away, and I did not know was going to happen, and I was just scared of these people who took Pelo away because I did not know how they took him.

MR SEMENYA: ...[inaudible] at the time it was alleged that he was spirited out by Mrs Mandela, was that your information too that led to you being frightened?

MR MAKANJEE: I don't recall Mr Mono ever saying that - Mr Chairperson, I don't recall him using the words: "Mrs Mandela spirited Mr Mekgwe  out".

YASMINE SOOKA: I need to be fair to Mr Semenya, I think he asked if that was what he had heard, that Mrs Mandela had

CHAIRPERSON: Thabiso, would you be in a position to answer that question?  Did you understand that Pelo ran away because of Mrs Mandela?

BAREND THABISO MONO: That is not what I heard. I only heard through the phone - a person received a call where we stayed, and he woke us up and he said, Pelo has been taken away, and he did not tell us who took Pelo away and how he was taken away.  The next morning we were supposed to give evidence and we felt that it was not safe for us to do anything. That is why we refrained from giving evidence.

MR SEMENYA: You have no reason to doubt when Pelo tells us that he left on his own accord with the chairperson of his region assisting him?

BAREND THABISO MONO: I'll be putting myself in danger to agree or disagree with the arrangements, I did not know how it came about that he left.  I won't dispute what he told you, I was not present when they arranged the whole issue of leaving.

MR SEMENYA: Did you say that you went and obtained taxi money
from Zinzi?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Jerry told Isaac to fetch the taxi money from Zinzi, then we left.

MR SEMENYA: So you have no factual basis to support that in fact that happened, am I correct?

BAREND THABISO MONO: Jerry ordered Isaac, Isaac went into the house, and we left.  I do not know what happened in the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Yes?

MR TENGE: Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: If you will please identify yourself for radio, thank you.