Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-08-19

PEDRO IGNACIO DE CASTRO: I don't know what the difference is between AWB and another human being.  I was never involved in politics and I don't want to know about politics.  My concern was to make a living and to survive at the end of the day, and to see that my business would run smooth.  I had no time to differentiate people.  Whether he was AWB or PAC or NP, I wouldn't know.

MR STEENKAMP: When the attackers attacked your shop did they indicate whether they are PAC or APLA people?  Did they wear clothes or did they shout slogans, anything like this?

PEDRO IGNACIO DE CASTRO: Not at all, they were actually very smartly dressed that day.  Mr Bhani was dressed, had a leather jacket on, a black leather jacket with smart trousers on.  And I mean, if he was an army fighter or a soldier like he said here in front of the Commission, he should have had an army uniform or an APLA fighting uniform on you know, to show the people that they were soldiers.  So to my mind they were never soldiers, they were doing it for the purpose of robbing money for their own use.

MR STEENKAMP: Mr de Castro, can you tell what the effect of this attack was on you and your family?

PEDRO IGNACIO DE CASTRO: Well it's been very much detrimental to us because I mean, we had a, myself and my wife we had two kids, one being a six month's baby and one a three year old and that's, you know I've lost my kids now because now they're permanently staying at my in-laws because I cannot cope with the kids and the business.  And you know, I mean I loved my wife and you know I've lost my loved one and I'll never forget that you know.

MR STEENKAMP: Anything else you would like to add Mr de Castro, and tell the Committee?

PEDRO IGNACIO DE CASTRO: I'd actually like to tell the Committee that these guys are all lying to us because from their evidence which I've been listening to since yesterday, nothing that they say makes sense.  If they were soldiers and fighting for the freedom of people, they should have done it in another manner.  There's no use or there's no need to take other people's lives for liberating a country or whatever.
	Another thing that I'd like to make clear is that if they were fighting for the PAC or APLA, whatever, and they wanted to cause havoc within a community, why do they come to place where usually or 99.9% there would only be two people closing that business.  That clearly states that they were coming to that supermarket with the intention to rob, because at that time it wasn't trading time, it was closing time.  Normally at that time we were already closed.  So that clearly shows to everybody that their intention was to come and rob money.
	Thirdly I'd like to contest their amnesty applications.  I don't think they really deserve amnesty for what they did.  They clearly stated here to the Commission that their main objective was money but then come on and they talk about politics.  I don't even know if they know what politics is, I really don't.

MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr de Castro.  No further questions, thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want to start cross-examining?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I don't think I would like to start now.  If I'm going to be I wouldn't like to stop in the middle and then we adjourn.  I would rather start ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, in the light of the possible difficulties of getting back to the prison we will adjourn now until half nine tomorrow.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS