Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

WITNESS:   Yes, this is Mazwi Mdluli.

MR LAX: Did he make a statement to us?

WITNESS:   Yes, he made a statement.  He made a statement to those people who were writing us down, who were registering us.

MR LAX: Thank you.  No further questions, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

WITNESS:   I was requesting that since this thing happened I got injured in my hand.  It was the hand that was already affected and that's the hand I got injured on.  I got attacked on.  Now, most of the time, even if I try to get part-time jobs many people say, "No, you will not be all right here, because your hand is not

CHAIRPERSON: /"strong.  It

CHAIRPERSON: 20B/17 "strong.  It won't be strong enough to do this job".  Now, because of that I don't know as the Commission, if it could perhaps - if perhaps there could be some kind of assistance that they could give me, since I got harassed in this way.  If they could just maybe assist me with something I can do - some light job that I will be able to do with my difficult hand, because I'm not able to use both my hands.  I can only work with my on hand, which is also not in a right condition.  I don't know what could happen around that issue.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any more questions?  Order, please.

MR LYSTER: Mr Mhlongo, do you know, with regard to the A-Team, did they work with the police or were they associated at that time with the police in Chesterville?

WITNESS:   Another thing that I had forgotten, while there was still a vigil of those people who had died, Nokwazi Mdluli died first, and Brenda and Bongi.  They all died.  The three of them died.  While we were still having a night vigil the police, together with these A-Team people - well, we hold the night vigil throughout the night - I think it was before ten in the evening, the police came with this A-Team and together with the mourners who had come to be with us the police threw teargas and people started running away - got scattered.  The police were with the A-Team when they did that, and as they were leaving they were laughing.  After the A-Team had done this - a few days after they had burnt our house, they used to walk up and down and nothing happened to them.  They used to undermine us and be nasty to us.  They used to say, "Oh, we've burnt the cats".  That was Bobo Mfene who said that.  I know him.

MR LYSTER: /So that does

MR LYSTER: 20B/21 So that does partially answer my question as to whether the A-Team worked or co-operated with the police.  Was that the pattern during the time that the A-Team operated in Chesterville, that they used to move around with the police or seek refuge with the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, because when you were at home you could see this A-Team street at 13.  You would see the police together with the A-Team boys.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE: Thank you, Chairperson, just one question.  Am I right in saying that there was a court case about this attack?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a court hearing.  The case was heard by the Judges.  What actually happened, the Court found that the investigators of that court he left the court case in the middle.  Those were the human rights people something.  They were the ones who wanted us to tell the lawyers about what had happened.  Okay, the human rights people wanted us to pursue this matter because they saw the case had not been pursued, so these human rights people took the statements and the court case started all over again.  Somebody was in charge.  An investigator, Tshabalala.  The first investigator, Dlomo - I can't remember his name - but he's also a police in the township - this other second investigator investigated until the case was taken to the Judges.  When the case was continuing then this Bheki was there and this Bheki was arrested, but when the case was before the Judges even this jacket that when I tried to hold him he ran and left it behind with me, they kept it.  Even on the day of the hearing it was part of the evidence, an exhibit.  They took this jacket and they made him fit it and indeed it

DR BORAINE: /fitted him

DR BORAINE: 12B/24 fitted him because he was trying to deny this jacket, that it wasn't his.  They said, "Do you know this jacket or not?"  He said, "No, I don't know this jacket".  When the Judge asked him, "Why does this jacket fit you?", and he didn't have anything to say.  He says, "No this jacket won't fit me", and this jacket was given to him and indeed it fitted him.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   The police was investigating this matter, he didn't put this matter in a clear case.  One day they had to suspend the case until the Judge wanted to go the following day to see that place.  We had to wait at home that the Judge would arrive there.  The Judge did arrive with his assessor.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  We really don't want to know all about the case.  I just want to know if Bheki was found guilty and, if he was, what was the sentence?

WITNESS:  He was found guilty and the doctors came to examine these children who had been burnt out.  The doctors explained how they had examined these children and how they had been burnt and so on and that it was fire that had killed them.  The case eventually ended up in Pietermaritzburg and that's where the sentence was passed.  At Pietermaritzburg he got 27 years and death sentence three times, but after that within two years we saw Bheki walking freely outside.  Another thing I was requesting, why would they give a person such a heavy sentence, death three times and 27 years but within two years that person was walking freely outside.  That's another issue.  If it could be investigated how come such a thing happened, when a person got such a heavy sentence and then within two years he's already walking out freely.  If you could investigate that

DR BORAINE: /matter.

DR BORAINE: 20B/27 matter.

DR BORAINE: We will go into the matter very fully, because there were many people who were very badly hurt in Chesterville.  We will look at this and we will come back to you.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, baba.  Together with you who are accompanying him.  You have already heard that we are going to try by all means at our disposal to investigate this matter, together with this matter you're raising and the wishes you've put before us.  Even though we are short we are going to try.  May God bless you and may God be with you.

WITNESS:   I was just wondering if he cannot give more information to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we have heard the whole story, but if there is something extra we need they are going to take a statement from him.  Thank you very much.  To the Chesterville people whose names have been raised here, we want to give an assurance to you that this is not the end of the hearings today.  We hope that we will have some more hearings where many people who didn't get an opportunity today to bring their testimony this week will get an opportunity, together with you.  You are going to get an opportunity, some of you, at that time.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: /DR BORAINE

CHAIRPERSON: 20B/28

DR BORAINE: Thank you, Chairperson.  The final witness for the session this afternoon is Thelakuhle Bongikile Sithole.  Could we have the earphones on, please.  You are Thelakuhle Sithole?

MRS SITHOLE: Yes, I am Thelakuhle.