Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

GIFT NTOMBENI: There was a disappearance of Sizwe Sithole's brother.  His name was Sinet and we discovered his body next to the river, he had been killed.  And this effected me, I went to Sizwe and I told Sizwe.  Sizwe asked me as to why I was crying.  I told him that we got Sinet's body next to the river.
 And Zinzi was furious with me, she asked me why I told Sizwe that Sinet had died.  She asked me as to where I got the right to divulge such information and she said to me I was an impimpi.  I realised that I was no longer safe in those premises as well as a member of the football club.

MR UNTERHALTER: And so you left?

GIFT NTOMBENI: That is correct.

MR UNTERHALTER: Were you approached by Sizwe or any other members of the club and threatened thereafter?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes.  Sizwe together with Lukhile got to Ethel Ngobesi's place where I used to go.  It was at night and he said he wanted to see me outside.  I went with him outside.  He said he was looking for Tholi.  I told him that Tholi and Lerothodi had gone up and he said I should go with him, but I refused.
 He said he knew about the night vigil that I was going to go to, but he was looking for Tholi and I should help him look for Tholi and he pointed the firearm at me and forced me to go with him.  And we went with him because he pointed a firearm at me.  He said I should get into Tholi's place and look for Tholi.
 They said Tholi had just gone out.  We went further down the street to  Nhlongo's place.  We got Lerothodi and Tholi.  They fought, there was an altercation of sorts.  Sizwe was fighting Nqlanqla.  They wanted to get a firearm, that is Jabu's firearm.
 Tholi took the gun that was from Nqlanqla and gave it to Sizwe and Tholi went further down leaving us at Nhlongo's place.  And when we got to a certain place, we saw Lerothodi and I told him that they were looking for Tholi was shot.
 And as we were running, we saw the micro bus, (indistinct) and Zinzi as well as Shoes were inside the micro bus,  that is Mrs Mandela's micro bus.

MR UNTERHALTER: Who shot Tholi?

GIFT NTOMBENI: It was Sizwe.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now, after this incident, were you approached again by members of the club?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Winnie came to me on a Sunday.  She told me that she was from Cape Town and she wanted to know as to who issued the order for Tholi to be killed.  She called me to Tholi's place.
 He said we did not know.  Then he said Gift was there.  I was taken by Sizwe to that place.  Then she left us there.

MR UNTERHALTER: I see.  Were you approached by two members of the club, Shoes and Sipho, at any point and asked to come to Mrs Mandela's office?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, we were at the swimming pool, that was myself and Lerothodi, when we got to the swimming pool Shoes and Sipho came and said Nomzamo was calling us, she wanted to see us at the office and we went to the office.
 When we got to the office, she said yes informer?

MR UNTERHALTER: Sorry, who are you referring to?  Is that Mrs Mandela?

GIFT NTOMBENI: It is Nomzamo.

MR UNTERHALTER: Oh, I beg your pardon.

GIFT NTOMBENI: From there she told Shoes to put us into a car and take us to Diepkloof and at that stage Lerothodi Ikaneng ran away and I was left with this gang.
 They took me to Diepkloof.  I got Tholo and Biza who were busy being assaulted and I was also assaulted at that stage.

MR UNTERHALTER: Who assaulted you?

GIFT NTOMBENI: I was assaulted by Guy Boy as well as Sledge.  I don't remember the other ones who assaulted me, but there were a lot of them who were assaulting.

MR UNTERHALTER: Can I just for the sake of clarity, you were taken to the office and it was said that you were an informer.  Who said to you that you were an informer, who accused you of being an informer?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Winnie Mandela said I was an informer.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now, after you were assaulted at the house, what happened to you, were you let go after that incident?

GIFT NTOMBENI: We stayed there for four days so that we could recover and we should not be discovered that we had been assaulted.

MR UNTERHALTER: Did you see Mrs Mandela in the course of those four days?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, she was present.  She would just go to the office and come back in the evening, or late afternoon.

MR UNTERHALTER: Did she know that you had been assaulted?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, she knew because she used to start the assaults.  Even at the office, she assaulted us and when we got to the room, that is called Fish Oil, she assaulted us.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now, after you left Mrs Mandela's house, were you approached again by Modondo and Katiza Cebekhulu about an attack on Sibusiso Chili?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, Katiza Cebekhulu together with Zakhele Mbatha and Maxwell Modondo came to us.  They said we should go.  I asked them as to where we were going to and they said it is (indistinct) that is Sibusiso Chili.  I asked as to what we were supposed to do.  They said they had got an order from Mama that (indistinct) should be killed.  I refused to go with them and I met Todo.

MR UNTERHALTER: Who is Todo?

GIFT NTOMBENI: I do not know Todo's real name.  We used to refer to him as Todo.  Then I told Todo that they were going to attack (indistinct) place only to find that Todo had gone earlier on to tell the family of Sibusiso Chili that there was going to be an attack.

MR UNTERHALTER: And what happened next?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Killa came back running to tell me that Maxwell had been arrested.  He said that he had been apprehended by the other members of the football gang.
 We went down, he showed me a suitcase in which there was a gun that he had had earlier on.

MR UNTERHALTER: Do you know what happened to Maxwell Modondo?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, I saw him.  He was laying on the ground and at the time Winnie Mandela arrived together with Morgan.

MR UNTERHALTER: How did she arrive?

GIFT NTOMBENI: She was driving a red Audi.  She just looked and drove by.

MR UNTERHALTER: Did she look at Modondo's body?

GIFT NTOMBENI: She never got out of the car, she just looked at him whilst she was inside the car, she sort of drove by, but she did look at him.

MR UNTERHALTER: Do you know anything about the attack upon Dudu Chili's house?

GIFT NTOMBENI: No.  That day I wasn't there.  I had been arrested at the Protea police station.

MR UNTERHALTER: Why were you arrested?

GIFT NTOMBENI: I do not know, they just took me and arrested me.  They later released me on that very same day.

MR UNTERHALTER: In 1992, you left South Africa for Uganda, is that correct?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, that is correct.

MR UNTERHALTER: Why did you leave the country?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Nomzamo had actually bought people to kill me, that is the boy that I was with at the Unit.

MR UNTERHALTER: Who are you referring to?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Winnie Mandela hired an assassin with whom I was sharing some residence and she said that I was an informer, I was going to sell the whole group out so I just deserved to be killed.

MR UNTERHALTER: Now, have you seen Mrs Mandela since that time?

GIFT NTOMBENI: Yes, on the 23rd it was on a Sunday, she sent ... (intervention)

MR UNTERHALTER: Sorry, can I just get the date from you please.  You say on the 23rd, which month and which year?

GIFT NTOMBENI: On the 23rd of November 1997.  She sent Jakes Mgojo to come and fetch me.  Mgojo didn't tell me straight that I was being sought after by Winnie, but he only told me when we were approaching Mandela's place and said Mrs Mandela was sick.
 She asked me as to whether I was going to testify at the Truth Commission.  I told her yes, I was going there and she asked me as to with who was I going to testify.  I counted the names of the people and she said I should go and call these people, but Morgan refused to go there.  We went back and told Winnie that Morgan had refused to come.  She said we should wait, she was still busy with her Attorneys.