Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-12

MR LOWIES: And when you were at the gate, did you see anything? - at that stage.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I did not see anything and I went back into the house.

MR LOWIES: Did you proceed to watch TV or did you now do anything else?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The television set was on and I was watching at the same time.

MR LOWIES: Yes?  What made you get up again?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The noise was approaching, getting closer.

MR LOWIES: And then?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: And I looked through the window.  They had not come within my view at that time.

MR LOWIES: Did you see anything at that stage?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I did not see anything at that time, it was just noise.

MR LOWIES: And did you remain standing or did you go back to sit and watch TV again?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I am saying, when I heard this noise I thought that this could be the people coming to attack us or the comrades, so I was not sitting down really.

MR LOWIES: That's not the question.  We heard that you went to the gate, you went to sit and watch TV, then ...(intervention)

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That was at the beginning.  That's what I said.

MR LOWIES: Then you heard a noise and you went to the window again.  Now at that stage, did you go back to sit again or did you stand there in front of the window all the time?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I am saying to you I never sat down again, I continued watching through the window and watching television at the same time, trying to make out as to what this was.

MR LOWIES: What was the very first thing that you saw to make you realise that now there is trouble?  See, that you saw.  The operative word is that you saw, not heard at that stage.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I had received a message.

MR LOWIES: No but Sir, I specifically said to you "that you saw".

CHAIRPERSON: He'd been warned before that there is going to be an attack, then he hears the noise and then he saw the Koyoco.  He warned his family.

MR LOWIES: He didn't say that now, Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: But he said that yesterday.  That has been said many times.

MR LOWIES: I'll leave it at that.
	Now when you saw the Koyoco, what did it do, did it just go there, park there and nothing happened regarding that Koyoco?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: This Koyoco came to a standstill there and the noise of the engine was running almost quietly and the lights were dim.

MR LOWIES: No, my question is, did anything specifically happen or did it just go there and park there and nothing else happened regarding that Koyoco?

CHAIRPERSON: We were told yesterday it came in there and parked and then moved on.  That is what we were told.

MR LOWIES: Chair, I hear that.  I just want to clarify because this was never canvassed, whether anything happened regarding that Koyoco, except for the fact that it went there and parked and moved.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Nothing happened after the Koyoco had arrived, it just came and parked there.

MR LOWIES: Nobody alighted, nobody got into it, nobody loaded anything into that Koyoco?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Nobody alighted because had somebody alighted I would have said so.

MR LOWIES: And the Koyoco, whilst it was there, could you see people inside the vehicle?

MR BERGER: Chairperson, with respect, ...

CHAIRPERSON: Inside what?

MR LOWIES: The vehicle.

CHAIRPERSON: What vehicle?

MR LOWIES: The Koyoco.

CHAIRPERSON: But he told us yesterday that he could see the people that were, two white people that were in front.  He told us that yesterday.

MR LOWIES: I specifically made a note of that.  I wasn't sure whether he said in front, inside or standing in front of the vehicle.

CHAIRPERSON: Just put that to him.

MR LOWIES: Were the people inside the vehicle or were they in front of the vehicle? - outside.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yesterday I said - I think you were here, but if you were not here yesterday I'm going to tell you now.  You did not hear this.
	I am saying it came to a standstill, no single white person got out of this Koyoco. The people who were inside this vehicle were visible, but not as clear as one would have expected.

MR LOWIES: Why do you say they were white people?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I know a white person, what are you?  I can see you are a white person, finished.  Look I can see.  You mean I don't know a white person now?

MR LOWIES: But it was dark wasn't it?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I know a white person, even if it's at night I'll know a white person.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, I'm sorry to interrupt, I know that it doesn't help, but I wouldn't be doing my duty to my client if I didn't object at this point.  I have advised my client, as has Ms Cambanis and my learned friend, Mr Malindi, that your ruling means that they will not be subjected to cross-examination of this sort.  Perhaps we don't understand your ruling but we've always thought that not being able to revisit issues means that these kinds of questions can't be asked.

CHAIRPERSON: I will allow the question.  Counsel is free to canvass the issue.  If I believe that the question is a repetition I will do so, I will stop him.

MR LOWIES: The question was; it was dark, not so?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There was light, a bright light and there was the moon as well.

MR LOWIES: I would like to put the following to you, and that is; it was so dark, Sir, you would not have been able to see inside that Koyoco.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: You see the Koyoco had no curtains so I could see the people inside.  I could see them through the windows and the ones who were in front were even more visible.

MR LOWIES: They did not wear balaclavas, did they?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, they did not have these balaclavas on.

MR LOWIES: Now what provided the illumination at that stage?  Where did the light come from?  And you must please mention all the light sources.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Moonlight, the floodlights.

MR LOWIES: Yes?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Nothing else, except for these things.

MR LOWIES: You see I've handed out to everybody a document which is an assessment of certain evidence before the Goldstone Commission of Inquiry into the Boipatong Massacre on 17 June 1992.
	I would request that this be admitted as Exhibit EE, Chairman.
	Now in this document, Sir, an independent firm, Inloptro(?) described the elimination conditions, and I want to put it to you that it was not brightly lit outside, the illumination was actually very bad.  This is the crux of their finding.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The person who is saying that is saying what he knows and I am saying what I know.  It was very bright that evening.

MR LOWIES: Because I'd like to just mention the following to you - Chair, for the assistance of everybody - at page 6 thereof if I'm not mistaken, paragraph 4.1, you'll find the following description
"At the time of the incident, at about 22H00 on 17 June 1992, ..."

CHAIRPERSON: Where is this?

MR LOWIES: Chair, two document were handed to you, the one on top is document I think: "Recollection and Impressions of Inspection at Boipatong".  Now I think four or five pages further there's a report which is titled: "An Assessment on Certain Evidence Given".  Then on top of this document it says page 6 of 10.

MR LAX: Mr Lowies, the page numbers of this document are at the bottom right-hand corner.

MR LOWIES: That's 17, thank you, Mr Lax.  I would submit that that is the correct page.

MR LAX: Sorry, we don't have the fax thing on the top on our copy, unfortunately.

MR LOWIES: Page 17 is actually a much better reference.
	Now it is stated there, Sir, that at the time of the incident on that day: 
"It was two days after full moon and the moon was approximately 30 degrees above the horizon.  The illumination at the time ..."
...(intervention)