Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-28

THANDI SHEZI: I think what could help them, is that our Government must make a women centre where women can go and voice their innermost feelings and concern, because it would seem in most cases our Government looks after male needs and I think we played a very important role in the struggle and the history.
 And some of our guys, the males who were beaten up, but then they didn't have to go through that sore that we went through, but if there could be like centres, counselling centres and give women something to do, give them an opportunity to express themselves.
 As I have spoken here, I'll go home with this trauma, but fortunately I have been receiving this counselling, but what about somebody else who have experienced similar situations and they just go back with the wound having been opened and thereafter they don't get any assistance in the form of counselling and support.
 So if there could be some kind of centres where that could support women who have gone through similar experiences.

MS MKHIZE: Thank you very much, Thandi.

CHAIRPERSON: Thandi, put the earphones on so that you can -I'm going to ask you the questions in English, but you'll be able to hear in a language of your choice.
 Are you able to hear me?

THANDI SHEZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Some of the questions I'm going to ask you, is in a sense really going to deal with some of the trauma you experienced again.
 You mentioned in your statement that you were tortured.  Now, part of what we have to do is in fact, record all these allegations of torture, so that we can have a sense of understanding of what the different methods were, that were in fact used throughout the country, so that we can begin thinking about ways of retraining people so that torture actually doesn't take place in our country again.
 You mentioned that you were tortured by way of suffocation.  I wonder if you can just give us some more details, please?

THANDI SHEZI: The sack they put on you, it's a square sack and the material they used;  it's as if it is made in such a way to suffocate you, you cannot breathe, it can't allow the air you breathe out and in.  You're able to breathe through your mouth, but you can't breathe through your nose.
 But once they've put water in this sack, it sticks to your face and then it closes your nostrils.  Now the only way you can breathe is through your mouth.  But when they electrocute you, you get shocked and as you're shaking from this electrocution, then it closes your mouth and you cannot breathe and also your nostrils are blocked at that stage.  You cannot use them for breathing.

CHAIRPERSON: When they tortured you, did they take off all your clothes?

THANDI SHEZI: There was no need for them to unclothe me, because the very clothes I was wearing, they were completely torn off from my body.  They were just holding onto my waist and it was completely torn.  I was almost naked at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: You have mentioned that there were in fact four men who raped you.  Now, were all of these men White or were there some Black policemen amongst them?

THANDI SHEZI: They were all White males and they were speaking Afrikaans.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell me how long you were actually held by them in prison?

THANDI SHEZI: I was arrested in September and I think it was three months and I was released on the 1st of December.

CHAIRPERSON: And during this time, your treatment in prison, did the women wardens come and see to you when you were menstruating?  Where you given any of the things that women need during that period?

THANDI SHEZI: Yes, they were giving me those things, because I was in a single cell.  The cell, there was like a toilet,  there was a bed and a toilet and a basin.  I was not even allowed to get out of the cell.
 A warden used to come in to give me food and all those other things that I needed like changing clothes and the prison clothes, because I didn't have my own clothes there.

CHAIRPERSON: You also mention in your statement that you recognised an Askari and you even mentioned his name. How did you know that he was an Askari?

THANDI SHEZI: When I was released, when I told them the person
who was there, whose name was Sam, they told me it's Sam from Alexander who was an Askari.  He's burned in the face.  He'd been banned by comrades in Alex, because of the scar.  Because I was able to describe this person, because he had a burnt mark on his face.

CHAIRPERSON: When you came out of prison, did you, were you examined by a doctor?  Did you go to a doctor and ask him to check you out?

THANDI SHEZI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Not.  Did you lay charges against the policemen concerned?

THANDI SHEZI: Yes, I did lay the charges.  They told their lawyer, Chris, that they would not take this case forward.  They did put some reason why they wouldn't, but I don't know what those reasons were.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were raped, after the rape, did any of the wardresses who were attending to you;  did they know about the rape?

THANDI SHEZI: No, they didn't know.

CHAIRPERSON: But after this, were you treated in any way, properly?  Were you taken for any kind of medical examination.

THANDI SHEZI: Yes, I was treated by the jail doctor.

CHAIRPERSON: Who had decided that or when you went to lay the charges, did the police decide that they don't want to press charges against these men?

THANDI SHEZI: Yes, the letter that I'd got ...

CHAIRPERSON: What did it say?

THANDI SHEZI: They said Adriaan Vlok said that there are no charges that are going to be laid against those policemen.

CHAIRPERSON: And the name of your lawyer so that we could get more information from him?

THANDI SHEZI: Chris Naidoo.

CHAIRPERSON: Chris Naidoo.  You also talk about the fact that your partner left you and in fact said that you were very frigid.  Did he not realise the impact that the rape in fact had on you?

THANDI SHEZI: No he didn't know. I actually didn't tell him.  At that time I didn't tell a single soul about it.  I thought I was a person who had a problem.  That is why they raped me. That's why they did what they did to me. I though I was to blame for it. I didn't want people to know about what had happened to me.

CHAIRPERSON: When you talked about the fact that there were other women who were part of your group, but they had spent shorter times in detention.  Now, when all of you came out, you said to me now that you didn't speak about it.  Did any of them discuss with you what kind of experiences they had in prison?

THANDI SHEZI: Yes, they used to talk about assault, that they'd been electrocuted and being insulted also, but they didn't go any beyond that.  We didn't discuss about other things.

CHAIRPERSON: How - I know that you've said that you're going for counselling now, but I'm very happy that you've in fact come forward to talk about your experiences.
 But how do you feel?  Do you feel that openness in fact begins to heal?  And how do you feel about other women sharing their experiences in this way?

THANDI SHEZI: What has really helped me is Kulumane Support Group, because I saw other people relating their own experiences in Kulumane;  talk about their painful experiences.
 I then also decided that maybe that's about time I related my experience.  I shouldn't keep it forever hear.  And the Kulumane helped me to go and see a psychiatrist for counselling, because I was becoming very violent.  I wasn't very tolerant of other people and I would get very violent when I was talking to other people.  I have become completely intolerant, because I think that's how I was trying suppress this feeling and experience that I've gone through.

CHAIRPERSON: You mention during your testimony that you felt you were responsible and perhaps you'd in fact invited the sort of attack on you. Now having gone through counselling, do you accept that you in fact are not to blame?