Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-14

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) recall one of the applicants to testify, namely Mr (Indistinct) Wordsworth Lethuli, who in fact has already testified in this matter when we were in Durban.  The application for the recall has been done by Mr Ngubane, and it was not opposed and we indicated yesterday that he would in fact be recalled today.  Mr Stewart, it will just be for purposes of cross-examination?

MR STEWART: Mr Chairperson, thank you, my understanding of the application is that it's for the purposes of cross-examination on behalf of victims who weren't notified to enable their questions to be asked in Durban.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Lethuli, do you mind coming forward please?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ngubane?

MR NGUBANE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, before I proceed cross-examining this witness, I would like to bring to the attention of the Members of the Committee that my cross-examination might perhaps be not cross-examination in the strict legal sense, some of the things which the witness has said in Durban, I might ask him to have reference to them without going into too much details for the benefit of the community.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR NGUBANE: Mr Lethuli, is it correct that you were a member of the ANC and as a member of the MK, you were convicted and you served a period of ten years?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And after your release, is it correct that you thereafter joined the Inkatha Freedom Party?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: And it occurred at some stage that you were employed to Mpumalanga, is it correct?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: What was the purpose of your deployment to Mpumalanga?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: I would say the reason for me to be deployed in Mpumalanga was to assist (Indistinct) Mkeshle(?), because the IFP leadership realised that the IFP was losing its strongholds.  That was the reason why I came to Mpumalanga.

MR NGUBANE: Was (Indistinct) Mkeshle operating alone, or he was in cohorts with the other high-ranking Inkatha officials?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: I can say initially he was a member of the central committee of the IFP.  In that committee, the dignitaries of the IFP met.  He was also a leader of the IFP in Mpumalanga.

MR NGUBANE: Okay, Mr Lethuli, what I am driving at is, waging the war in Mpumalanga, were there any other Inkatha officials who are based locally in Mpumalanga that were assisting him?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes, I would agree that in Mpumalanga he had people like Psychology Ndlovu, Mandla Ndlovu, Mashenini, Sipho Mdlaba and an induna from Njanga, whose name I have forgotten, Sibisi from Chongweni and others.

MR NGUBANE: Now, you have mentioned people who were residing outside of Mpumalanga, was your war confined to Mpumalanga or you went to the extent of attacking areas like Chongwneni and the area known as Kwaximpa and Georgetown?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: I would say at that time, Mpumalanga comprised of from Bengesi to Chongweni, as well as Maxonxo, Nyavene, Slaxeni, Mopela, those were all the areas.

MR NGUBANE: Now all the activities of the Inkatha, that is the war, if I may call it war activities of Inkatha in all those areas, were they reported to you?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: Now, you have heard questions being put about the incident that occurred in the cemetery at Mlangeni here in Mpumalanga, do you bear any knowledge about that incident?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Yes, although I personally was not present, but I know about it.

MR NGUBANE: Can you tell the Members of the Committee who, in the first place, commissioned that there should be that activity and who participated in the actual execution of that mission?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: I think the person in charge was Mr Sekele, there was a funeral, although I do not remember whose funeral it was.  There were also Caprivians from Unit 4 who were present, people like Damlefe, Babanene, Vusumbeje and other Caprivians, who were from Ward 10.

MR NGUBANE: Right, and all those people, you say they attend, the people at the cemetery at Mlangeni, correct?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: They could answer for themselves, but all I'm saying is that they were present at the funeral.

MR NGUBANE: Now is it correct that when you committed these acts of killing people and injuring people here in Hammarsdale, you personally had a weapon, a .303 weapon, is that correct?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Can you describe its make, its peculiar make?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: It is a 303, it has a front and a rear side, and on top it has another sight attached to it, so that if a person is about maybe a distance of 100, 200 metres away, I can actually see him or adjust the distance so that he is about 50 metres away from me.

MR NGUBANE: Right, and that's the weapon which you used in whatever act you did when there was a target to be eliminated?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: That is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Now I'm not sure whether you have a copy of your papers in which you made your application, I'm going to ask you about the incident at page 259, that is the killing of Mrs Mazebugu, do you recall that incident?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: 259?

MR NGUBANE: Yes, that is the incident when you attacked with Lawrence Zuma, Jerry Mtanda, Swanepoel Mkulu, Zweli Godfrey Dlamini

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: We can proceed.

MR NGUBANE: Those people... (intervention).

ADV MOTATA: Mr Ngubane, it would be in 17.2.

MR NGUBANE: Yes, after 17.1 downwards, 17.2 and so on and so on.
	Firstly, before you talk about this incident, these Caprivians that I have mentioned, where did they reside?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: The people you have mentioned were not Caprivians, but were members of the BSI.

MR NGUBANE: In Mpumalanga, can you tell the Committee where these people resided?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: These people resided at Ulundi, but they were deployed all over Natal to assist if maybe the situation was tense in an area, the BSI will send these people you have mentioned.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Ngubane, Mr Lethuli could you just briefly explain what the BSI was?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: It was a wing, similar to the Special Branch of South Africa.  Their duty was to monitor and survey the political opponents of their government and they were under the KwaZulu Police.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  And where did you people decide, where did you decide to go and attack Mrs Mazebugu?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: On this day, I was called by Sikumlaba, he reported to me that some people had been killed on their way to work and the people who were responsible for this, the one person that he mentioned by name was Mazebugu's son, whose name I have forgotten, this person was well known as a member of the UDF, he said he and others were responsible for this act.

MR NGUBANE: When he told you about Mrs Mazebugu, did he give you any specific instructions?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: He was very angry and he said we must do something about that house.

MR NGUBANE: And did you eventually attack that house and kill Mrs Mazebugu?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Although I do not know whether Mrs Mazebugu died, but we burnt the house down.

MR NGUBANE: Now I turn over to page 263 of your papers.

ADV MOTATA: Mr Ngubane, just on that point, if I may interrupt, how did the burning down of this house take place, Mr Lethuli?

D WORDSWORTH LETHULI: Sorry?

ADV MOTATA: How was this house burnt down?