Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Over to you Mr Bizos.

GEORGE BIZOS: We have a witness who is waiting to be called ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: Microphone?

GEORGE BIZOS: A witness to be called by us is Mrs Theresa Beyers.  Perhaps we could get her to sit on that side of the table there Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] be convenient.

JUDGE WILSON: Mr Bizos, if the chair is put there for her, couldn't this other table be put in front of her and you could put the microphone on it?

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Beyers, are you prepared to take the oath?

THERESA BEYERS: (sworn states)

GEORGE BIZOS: Mrs Beyers, where do you live Madam?

THERESA BEYERS: In 3-13th Avenue, Houghton.

GEORGE BIZOS: And where does President Mandela live?

THERESA BEYERS: At number 4-13th Avenue, Houghton.

GEORGE BIZOS: Your house must have acquired quite a lot of value?

THERESA BEYERS: Hopefully.

GEORGE BIZOS: For how long have you been living there Mrs Beyers?

THERESA BEYERS: 17 years.

GEORGE BIZOS: Speak up towards the Committee because we must all hear, the Committee and the applicants and the counsel on the other side, so please speak up.
	When did Mr Mandela move over the road from you?

THERESA BEYERS: In May - I can't remember, May '91 - May '92.

GEORGE BIZOS: May '92?

THERESA BEYERS: May '92.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.  And is his house under guard?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes, it is.

GEORGE BIZOS: And on a particular day, do you recall the day that you saw something unusual on your street?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes, it was the 12th of July 1992.

GEORGE BIZOS: Now, how do you fix this date Mrs Beyers?

THERESA BEYERS: We were going to an engagement party, so that's how I remembered it.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what time did you decide to set off for the engagement party?

THERESA BEYERS: It was probably about 5 o'clock - 5H00/5H30.

GEORGE BIZOS: This would be in winter, was it already dark or was there light?

THERESA BEYERS: No, it was still light.

GEORGE BIZOS: And you say that you intended going to an engagement party, who were - you or ...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: It was me, my husband and my daughter and her boyfriend.

GEORGE BIZOS: What did you see when you emerged from your driveway?

THERESA BEYERS: My husband came out the drive and turned left and made an error, he should have turned right to go onto the motor-way, so he did a U-turn in the road and we saw a white bakkie parked on the pavement - our pavement, over the road from Mr Mandela's house.  We then drove down to Central Avenue, turned right and this ...[intervention]

GEORGE BIZOS: What did this bakkie do when you made the U-turn?

THERESA BEYERS: The bakkie pulled off straight away - as soon as we'd made a U-turn, the bakkie pulled off and drove down the road towards Central Avenue - drove down 13th Avenue, towards Central Avenue.

GEORGE BIZOS: Drove westwards?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes.

GEORGE BIZOS: Towards Central Avenue.

THERESA BEYERS: That's correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: And how far is your house and Mr Mandela's house from the corner of ...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: Two houses.

GEORGE BIZOS: Two houses?

THERESA BEYERS: Two houses from Central.

GEORGE BIZOS: From the corner of Central and ...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: From the corner of Central and 13th Avenue.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did he drive off in a leisurely fashion?

THERESA BEYERS: No, he wasn't in a leisurely - he didn't drive off in a leisurely fashion, it was quite quick.  We then turned right into Central Avenue where this car was in front of us and we caught up with him again on the bridge - on the motor-way, the Glenhove Road bridge where - because of the strange behaviour, we had a look at the car and the occupants - there were three of us and my husband was obviously driving, he couldn't see, we saw a white bakkie with a man in the bakkie talking obviously on - I presume, on a two-way radio.  He had - there were no number plates at the back of the bakkie and there were bullet holes in the side - the driver's side of the bakkie.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you consider this a usual or an unusual event - having regard to Mr Mandela's position?

THERESA BEYERS: We were a bit suspicious because President Mandela was living over the road and because he'd driven away - we hadn't noticed him to start with, but because he drove away so quickly, we were suspicious and when we got to the function I phone the President's security to say: "Please be on the alert".

GEORGE BIZOS: When you stopped on the Central Street and...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: Glenhove Road bridge.

GEORGE BIZOS: Glenhove Road bridge, did you have a look at the driver?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes, I did.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you have a good look at him?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes, I did.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is he anywhere here?

THERESA BEYERS: Yes, it's Mr Walus.

GEORGE BIZOS: When did you connect what you saw on the 12th of July ...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: After Mr Hani was assassinated and we saw the photographs in the newspaper, that was when we connected.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you report this to anyone?

THERESA BEYERS: No, we just mentioned it - in passing, to the President when he came for lunch one day.

GEORGE BIZOS: You say, from the party you telephoned ...[intervention]

THERESA BEYERS: We telephoned the President's house to alert his housekeeper and the security.

GEORGE BIZOS: That was on the 12th of July?

THERESA BEYERS: That was on the 12th of July.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is there any doubt in your mind that the driver of that White bakkie was Mr Walus?

THERESA BEYERS: No.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you Mr Chairman, we have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Any cross-examination?

MS VAN DER WALT: I would like to just have my microphone seen to, it's not working properly.
	Mrs Beyers, on the 12th of July ...[intervention]

GEORGE BIZOS: ...[inaudible] give the witness.

MS VAN DER WALT: On the 12th of July 1992, you allegedly saw Mr Walus in this bakkie, when did you then see the photograph?

THERESA BEYERS: After Mr Hani was assassinated.

MS VAN DER WALT: So, that was after the 10th of April 1993?

THERESA BEYERS: That's correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Now, can you give a description of the bakkie?

THERESA BEYERS: It was a white bakkie.

MS VAN DER WALT: What kind?

THERESA BEYERS: I've no idea.

MS VAN DER WALT: But then how can you recall the finer details of Mr Walus but you can't tell the Committee what type of bakkie it was?

THERESA BEYERS: As I said, when the President moved over the road from us we were aware of a security risk, so when the bakkie pulled away, we didn't see the type but we did notice it had no number plates at the back and there were bullet holes in the side but I'm afraid I didn't get the make.

MS VAN DER WALT: It seems rather strange to me that you can recall all those other details but a statement was made by Mr Bizos that it was a Hi-Lux bakkie.

THERESA BEYERS: I don't think to here - I didn't say it was a Hi-Lux.

GEORGE BIZOS: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: Microphone?

MS VAN DER WALT: Mrs Beyers, you say that your husband made a wrong turn as he exited your gates?

THERESA BEYERS: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: Is your house opposite Mr Mandela's house?

THERESA BEYERS: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: Where exactly was the bakkie parked?

THERESA BEYERS: ...[inaudible]

MS VAN DER WALT: Is it immediately in front of your house?

THERESA BEYERS: No, where the bakkie was parked is part of my property, it was in front of my tennis court and the President's house is over the road from my tennis court, it's a sub-division.

MS VAN DER WALT: When you left your property, did you immediately see the bakkie?

THERESA BEYERS: No.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why not?