Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

MR WILLS: And you made a statement which I will show you, which is in Afrikaans, which I showed you yesterday.  Do you recall that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, Mr Chairperson, I was provided with this statement by one of my learned friends, the person is acting for some of Mr Hlongwane's accomplices.  I've made copies and I believe that the legal representatives have each been handed a copy, but the Committee members haven't.  I beg leave to hand this in.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Wills.  Mr Mpshe, do you have any idea as to what exhibit number we've reached, or should we just call this E1.  E for Ermelo.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I think that would be apposite, Mr Chairman, ja.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll call this E1 and then the other ones, if we get any further, will be E2, E3 etcetera.
STATEMENT HANDED IN MARKED EXHIBIT E1

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Now, you had an opportunity to go through this statement with me yesterday, and do you confirm the contents of this statement as being a true and accurate reflection of what occurred in Davula?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it's correct.

MR WILLS: Now, in that statement you refer to two attacks.  I know that statement is in Afrikaans and you can't read Afrikaans, but the first attack where you attacked two houses.  Can you recall that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I remember.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us what happened in those attacks?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: We left in the company of the Black Cats to Davel.  Arriving there we attacked two houses.

MR WILLS: And what do you mean you attacked two houses?  What did you do to those houses?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: We burnt them.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is "we"?  You and who else?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I'm referring to myself with the Black Cats.

MR WILLS: Can you remember the names of any of the Black Cats who were with you on that occasion?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I remember some of them.

MR WILLS: Can you please tell the Committee?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: It was Obed Nhlabathi, Bafana Khumalo, China and Sdiga.

MR WILLS: Now, you say in the statement that you've handed in that you also fired shots.  Do you confirm that?  At the houses that you attacked.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I confirm that.

MR WILLS: Now, you've indicated in your application and in the statement that I'm referring to that a person, a woman, was burnt to death in one of the houses in that attack, is that right?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, the house was burnt and the person was inside, and was also hurt or stabbed, and before we could enter the house they were busy trying to cease the fire with the hosepipe.  I get into the house and I shot about two times and the Black Cats entered into the other bedroom and killed the woman.

MR WILLS: Now, you also speak in your statement of a second attack where, and I'll just remind you very briefly, where you talk about you being supplied with petrol and being divided up into about five groups.  Can you recall that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I remember that.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us how it came about that that attack started?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Mr Mkhonza was complaining about the ANC in Ermelo and Noah will give me instruction to go to the place.  It was myself, him and Mr Felani.  And Mr Felani have to left to go and answer the telephone calls so that when the communities calls the police to complain he answers the calls but never come to investigate the scene of the crime.  It therefore so happened that Felani came one day during the day and we talked with him and finalised everything, and Noah came.  Roux also came together with Von Zweel.

MR WILLS: Sorry, Mr Hlongwane, when you refer to Felani going to answer the telephone call, which telephone is he going to answer?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: He was supposed to go back to sit on those lines where the community - are given the community to lay complaints if they have complaints within the community to the police station.

MR WILLS: Okay, continue.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Roux Nkosi came.  It was Von Zweel, together with Von Zweel.  I've forgotten the third white man, but I think I'll remember later.  They came to Mkhonza's place.  At the time before I was arrested, when entering Davel, you're coming from Ermelo going towards Bethal, you turn along the streets which enters the place and the first house it's at the corner, it's the Mkhonza house, these men started at Mkhonza's house and they found Mkhonza and Noah at the place.  And then they left, all of them, in cars going to the station commander at the police station.  That's where Noah informed that ten (10) minutes will be enough for Sadam to burn about ten (10) houses.  And then they came back and gave me the time and before they left Davel they passed us.  It was myself, Roux, Maree, and they said to me, "Please, we give you ten (10) minutes, do the work effectively", and I said, "Yes, I will do the work", and they left.  And they said the police won't be present and when we're finished working we must be free.  Therefore in the evening they took a car to fetch twenty five (25) litre of petrol, that's Mkhonza's car.  I called China as I've already given him instructions on petrol bombs.  So we made petrol bombs and we were running short of bottles.  I told them we have to do the work quickly and I told him to bring two litres of plastics and I cut them on the top.  There were five group, but the fifth one died.  We have to abandon because we didn't have enough firearms.  So I took the other who were belonging to the fifth group and add them to the other four groups.  There was on the other group Mandla Maluleka has his, December was holding his and the last one was with Dingaan Maluleka.  So, we were four groups under these four men I've just mentioned.

MR WILLS: Now, you mention in paragraph seventy one (71) of your amnesty application, your affidavit attached to your amnesty application, at the bottom of the page one hundred and fifty nine (159), that there were three groups.  Are you saying you were wrong in this regard and that you can recall now that there were five groups or four?  What was the position?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I made a mistake in saying that there were three.  There were five and we didn't have enough arms because each group had to have a firearm so that if someone shoot back at them they could be able to defend themselves. So, since we were five and we abandoned one and they became four, all of them.

MR WILLS: Now, you mention the names of certain persons in that paragraph seventy one (71).  Can you see on the top of page one hundred and sixty (160)?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I can see.

MR WILLS: Were those person involved?  That is Noah, China.  You say China had a 38 revolver and Bongani had a home-made firearm.  Bongani Khaba.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, Noah was present with his issued or lawful 9mm.  China was there having the 3.8.  My lawyer, I tried to explain about Bongani.  He was not armed with a home-made firearm, he was holding a shotgun Mossberg 500.

MR WILLS: Yes.  So, that's in fact a mistake in your affidavit.  You say a home-made firearm, but you've corrected that.  It was a shotgun that Bongani Khaba had?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.  Yes, it was Mr Mkhonza's shotgun.

MR WILLS: Yes, okay.

UNKNOWN: Mr Wills, just for my own clarity, I'm a little confused.  On page seventy one (71), the page that you've just referred to, right at the bottom Mr Hlongwane seems to be saying that China also headed one of the groups.  However, in his evidence he has spoken of Mandla Maluleka, December Mthethewa, Dingaan Maluleka as having headed the groups and China's name has not been mentioned.  Can you just clarify that aspect for me?