Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We arrived at Umtunzini, I went to the witness box and they told me that the case was being postponed for further investigation and I was told that I would be kept in custody during that time.
	This shocked and annoyed because we'd agreed on the R500 bail with Major Ntunu and Brigadier Msemela, how did it come about that I was not granted bail.  When I left at the time Major Nkunu came to apologise to me and he showed me an entry on the docket which stated the recommended bail - R500 and he said he doesn't know how this could happen because he had specifically written R500 bail so he didn't know why the court was refusing the bail.  He said I should not worry about this, they would take me to the Sondumbile Police Station and he would return to Brigadier Msemela and explain to him what had happened, it's definitely they're going to devise or try ways of getting me out.  
	I flatly refused to go to Sondumbile, I said I wanted to see Brigadier Msemela first.  We went to the eSikhawini Police Station to see Brigadier Msemela and Ntunu explained what had happened in court.  Brigadier pleaded with me and said I should return to Sondumbile and that they would contact a lawyer and who would then be able to request bail for me.
	I agreed and returned to Sondumbile Police Station.  On that evening Mr Gabele and his wife arrived, they had brought me food, they told me not to worry and they said they were going to return the following morning so that we could arrange for bail but he gave me an assurance that I would be released quite soon.
	The following morning he returned and he requested to see me from Major Zama and he said I should prepare a sum of R1000.  I told him we could go withdraw the money from the bank.  Major Zama then issued out two policemen with whom we went in Mr Gabele's car, a Mercedes Benz, to a shopping centre known as Rankins and I withdrew R1000 from there which I gave to Mr Gabele.

MR WILLS: Now, you are a policeman with at least some years experience, this way you were treated is it the way people are usually treated when they're arrested for murder?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Even if they had been arrested for pickpocketing, they wouldn't be treated in the same manner.

MR WILLS: Yes, now I just want to refer the Committee to the other volume, unfortunately it's not given a volume number but it is the volume which contains the judgements and those [inaudible] reports and such like, I want to refer the Committee to page 41 of that volume, it's page 1768 of Judge van der Reyden's judgement on sentence.
	Mayor Nkunu gave evidence, at that stage he was a Major in your trial before Judge van der Reyden, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And he was cross-examined quite extensively on the part that he played after your arrest, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, is it not so and I'm going to read this into the record and for the benefit of the public that Judge van der Reyden found and I quote and I want you to confirm this that having heard and I quote "having heard and experienced the whole tragedy twice, first on the State's version thereafter the defence version which in material respects confirms this court's judgement on the merits and I emphasise, all indications are that what was viewed as incompetence on the part of Members of the KwaZulu Police Force was in all probability a deliberate attempt to frustrate and prevent a proper investigation into the murders of the four youths and that of Sergeant Dlamini.  The lack of proper and vigorous investigation of these murders and more so, Sergeant Dlamini's murder tend to support the accused version that the murders were committed on instructions as part of their hit squad activities."  Do you recall that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: [inaudible]

MR WILLS: [inaudible] Nkunu's evidence, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: Now here, you were in respect of these of the four youths and the murder of Sergeant Dlamini and the murder of Nati Gumede effectively you got a seventy five year sentence, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: You got 25 years for the murder of Bafana Jeli and other three youths, you got 25 years for the murder of Sergeant Dlamini and you got 25 years for the murder of Nati Gumede, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And you got five years for the kidnapping of Nati Gumede?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: That is only that five year portion that is to run concurrently so effectively you've got a seventy five year sentence?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: I've touched on this paragraph 122 to paragraph 124 which involved you assisting with the operations of Kanele Pumatenja and Lucky Umbiasi with their operations, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now these - you refer to certain - below in your affidavit you're referring to certain operations that were conducted by the hit squad which was operated by these youths and not you people directly and that the youths I refer to again are Matenja, Lucky Umbiasi, Bernard Mlambo?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes as well as Constable Umkanasi.

MR WILLS: Yes and on two incidents Siobonga Umbiasi is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now the first incident you mention is the attack on the ANC leaders house, that's the ANC leader called Beki Ntuli?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now you weren't involved in this attack?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No I was not.

MR WILLS: You were not involved in the planning of this attack?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No I was not.

MR WILLS: In fact you had nothing to do with this attack, the only reason you include this in your affidavit is for the purpose of full disclosure of everything that you know about these operations, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes and also that it was me, Mrs Umbiasi and Mbambo who went to the Eshowe Hospital after they'd been injured.

MR WILLS: Yes but you're not applying for amnesty for the attack on Mr Ntuli?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No.

MR WILLS: Now I don't think we need to dwell on this matter very much, just to confirm what Mr Mkhize said, essentially these persons attacked Mr Ntuli's home, there was a certain amount of shooting at the home and then essentially they were injured with a hand grenade and ended up in the Eshowe Hospital, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And you actually assisted in the transport of these people to the hospital.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You lost a shotgun in that attack, is that right or they lost a shotgun?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: It is correct.

MR WILLS: I want to refer you to page 61 of the record, your paragraph 130.  Sorry, just before I leave that incident of Ntuli, just to confirm that the reason for these persons' arrest was not through the investigations of the KwaZulu Police at eSikhawini?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you remember why it was and who or who it was that arrested them?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: It was Captain Somalo of the Riot and Investigation Unit from Durban.

MR WILLS: Yes, okay paragraph 130 you indicate deals with issue of collecting ammunition and you confirm there that you - can you just refer to that paragraph?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I see it.

MR WILLS: And who gave you ammunition on the occasion you refer to there?