Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-13

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: At that stage I was patrolling with Eddie Khumalo and we were at the corner of De Villiers and King George there by Jabu's Bakery.  Whilst we were observing we were hearing crowds chanting from the other streets and the songs that were - singing songs that were sung by the crowds that were passing by and a crowd emerged and some of them were already in De Villiers Street, part of the crowd that emerged from Wanderer Street from the westerly direction of De Villiers towards the east, they emerged towards us and in that process whilst we still observing a shot was fired in our direction and Eddie responded with a pistol and we ran across the street to Shell House and we reported the matter to Gary Kruser that there is a crowd that is coming from the other direction which has no police escort and they've already fired the shot and they're carrying heavy calibre weapons.

MR TIPP: Yes just proceed in your own words to relate what happened after that.

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Running into the foyer of Shell House, we found Gary Kruser there.  We explained to him what did that crowd that had come there done to us, that is shooting and that they've got no police escort and Gary Kruser then issued an instruction to us that we should go back into the corner there but that Eddie should get an AK and then we went out into the corner with Gary Kruser in order to take position and observe what was happening, what the crowd were doing.  But, as we arrived in the corner there, the crowd, part of the crowd were already in corner of King George and De Villiers and some had entered a little bit into King George and I noticed also that there were other marchers who were in the opposite pavement by the laundry, were carrying also traditional weapons but not firearms.
	Immediately, whilst we were there in the corner, a shot was fired in our direction, a short burst from an AK by one of the marchers, a man that I identified who was in the crowd there that was marching.  But I also understand that there is ballistic evidence which is also saying something contrary to my point of view, the point that I'm putting that they fired in our direction but my view then and my view now still is that they were firing in our direction but I know I might be proved otherwise by the ballistics.

MR TIPP: And what action then was taken by you and the other guards?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: We immediately took a prone position, we fell to the ground, we took prone position, I fired warning shots and I also know that V.J. did fire warning shots - V.J. Rama.

MR LAX: Mr Zuma, how many warning shots did you fire?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I fired four.

MR TIPP: In what direction?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Into the air and I know that V.J. Rama who was on my right hand side, he fired up into the balcony, up into the - underneath the slab of the balcony and that person fired again some short burst and the instruction was given by Gary Kruser to us that we should fire and repel the fire that was coming from the marchers.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say "that person fired again" who are you talking about?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I'm talking about the man with an AK who was amongst the marchers.

MR NGCOBO: Is that the man that you had seen earlier on firing the AK47 at you, at the guards or in your direction?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes that is the man.

CHAIRPERSON: A person fired again and what did you do as a result of that?  You were asked to repel?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes we were then asked to repel and to fire at the crowd.  We then fired in their direction.

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma, I would like you just to deal with your own actions.  Did you personally fire into that crowd?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes I fired about eight shots while my target was that particular person who was carrying that AK.

MR TIPP: Could you give the Committee an indication of your sense of how rapidly these events took place?  Can you put a time estimate to it all?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Well, if I were to estimate, I will say it's no more than ten seconds.

MR TIPP: How did you personally feel at the time, what was your state of mind?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Well we were under attack by these people so I was convinced that we were under attack and I had an obligation, I had an obligation to defend the ANC property which is Shell House, the leadership that was inside and also I had - I mean I can also say that it is my duty to also defend myself on being attacked.

MR TIPP: Did you have any sense about your own safety at that time?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Very much so, very much so because I was down there, I was exposed to the crowd and they were shooting.

MR TIPP: What was the crowd doing at the time that you fired the first shots?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: They were charging towards our direction and it was then that I decided that I should fire a warning shot, maybe they can turn back but they didn't.

MR TIPP: Can you give the Committee an indication of your sense of the mood of that crowd?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I think that was a very aggressive crowd, you could see that they were warriors as you noticed that most of the chants and songs they were singing were the traditional Zulu war songs as I would call it.

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma, in your supplementary affidavit, you've said that it was unfortunately necessary to shoot.  I would like you please to explain to the Committee why - what do you mean by "unfortunate"?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Well, I mean it was unfortunate that we had to shoot because it is not our intention, it was unfortunate then and it's still unfortunate today because now we did that shooting as a result of circumstances that prevailed at that time and there was loss of life, we know that, there were people injured and it is not the policy of the ANC to go about killing people, innocent people.  Apart from that we are also human beings, we know how bad it is to lose a member of the family.  Maybe some amongst them who might have been breadwinners and all those things so I mean each and every member of the family is valuable and even each and every life is valuable so that I know and I believe that is the policy that the ANC - that is the policy that the ANC has been fighting for over the years.

MR TIPP: And are you personally of that view also?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes as I say that I'm a human being also you know, it's not really - it doesn't please anyone to kill a person or to shoot at a person.

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma you've already told the Committee that you were on duty that day - could you enlarge a little please on the importance to you of the pending elections at the time and of the protection of the leadership of the ANC to which you've referred?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: The struggles that have been fought over the years by the ANC as a liberation movement and other organisations that were there at the time were the struggles for democracy, were the struggles to bring about change in the country, to end the system of Apartheid, the system that had suppressed many of our people, the system that had brought about poverty, that had brought about inferior education and all those things so those elections were the cornerstone towards achieving that goal.  So those elections - it was very important that they were to be held - it was very important that they were to be held because otherwise we'll not be where we are today if those elections didn't take place so I believe that the anti-election march that was - that is the IFP - had engaged in was directed at the elections in order to make sure that they did not take place but that does not mean that I'm saying their engagement in that anti-election drive justified that they should never to come there and that they were to be shot at.