Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-12

DR RANDERA: Sorry.  You have talked about the groups called The Men and The Women, but what were the other issues that led to that day when the Inkatha people marched through Swanieville?  Were there other things that were happening that could have contributed?

M X KHULUSA: I think the reason or the root cause were the Boers.  They know the root cause because they were the ones who said we should sleep.  Why did they say we should sleep when we were going to be attacked?

DR RANDERA: Now, I just want to clarify this point.  I mean when you say the Boers who are you referring to?  The police?

M X KHULUSA: Yes, I am referring to the police as well as Inkatha because there was an interpreter who was a member of Inkatha and the Boer was speaking in Afrikaans.  They were the ones who said that we should sleep and we were attacked thereafter.

DR RANDERA: I understand the day before the attack took place, the police had come into Swanieville and gone on a house to house search and had confiscated whatever weapons they found.  Is that right?

M X KHULUSA: At that time I heard once when I was still in
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hospital that the area was being searched.  I do not have firsthand information with that regard.

DR RANDERA: I am talking about the day before the attack.  Were you in hospital that day?

M X KHULUSA: No, I am not referring to that day.  What I am saying is on the days that they came in, they never searched, but they went through the streets telling us that we should sleep, we should not be around the streets at eight.

DR RANDERA: Had Inkatha, well, the people from the hostel, had they ever attacked Swanieville before?

M X KHULUSA: It has never been done before.  It was only that once.

DR RANDERA: So why do you think on that day they came into Swanieville?  Why did they not go into Kagiso or somewhere else?  Why Swanieville?

M X KHULUSA: I think the reason was because in Dobsonville they also attacked.  That is how I took it, because if they attack one location they might as well attack another.  That is how I took it.

DR RANDERA: How many people were killed on that day Mr Khulusa?

M X KHULUSA: If I could estimate I think the maximum number could have been 30, up to 40.

DR RANDERA: Now, you say that when the attack took place and you came out of your house when the shack was burning, you saw a policeman pointing a gun towards you and he in fact shot a young person who was running away.  Are you saying the police were standing there while Inkatha moved through Swanieville and attacked people, shacks, property and did nothing?
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M X KHULUSA: That is correct because the Casper was there.  I saw a policeman who was shooting at a certain young man who was jumping the fence.

DR RANDERA: And they were not stopping the people who were burning and looting and killing?

M X KHULUSA: They never even lifted a finger to try and help.  I discovered that they were protecting Inkatha now because they were driving and Inkatha members were driving in the middle of the Hippos.  They were heading towards Kagiso one hostel.  They were still escorting the Inkatha members.  They never even lifted a finger to help the residents.

DR RANDERA: And you yourself were not a member of any organisation at the time?

M X KHULUSA: Not at the time.

DR RANDERA: Where do you come from yourself, Sir?

M X KHULUSA: From Kagiso.

DR RANDERA: Okay, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khulusa, we have heard your story.  Our research unit has already tried some attempts to find out what was the cause of the conflict and according to their report was that it was on the 12th of May 1991 when Swanieville was attacked and 28 people died on that particular day, that six people got injured and 112 shacks were burnt down.  The reason for this fight or this attack was that the owner of the place where you had built your shacks was Mr Swanepoel.  Do you know anything about the conflict that took place between the residents and Swanepoel?

M X KHULUSA: What I know is that Swanepoel was increasing the rent every month which means that if you pay R20.00 this KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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month, the following month you had to pay R20.00 and the other month you had to pay R40.00.  He said to us he was going to provide us with clean running water and that he had a borehole.  He was going to supply us with clean, running water.  The rent was going up every month so that he could do all those things he was promising.  There was a certain man at the time who had died and he had a conflict with Swanepoel at that time because at that time we never use to go closer to Swanepoel as individuals, but we use to send or delegate certain men from the group and they had an argument with Swanepoel with regard to the rent.  As from then I do not know what happened, up to such time that we were attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: Rumour has it that the rent that was always going up, you refused to pay that rent, but there were certain people who were collecting the money, but not giving it to Swanepoel at that time.  That was when the conflict started.  Is that correct?

M X KHULUSA: No, I do not know anything about that because the leaders who use to speak to Swanepoel were leaders who were elected to go and speak to Swanepoel.  There would be a meeting thereafter convened to come and give us the results of the meeting and if the meeting was on a Sunday I had gone to other places.

CHAIRPERSON: If he did not like the situation or was not satisfied he sent some men to attack you.  How far true is that?

M X KHULUSA: I also am not clear with regard to that.  All that I know was that we referred to as women and they referred to themselves as The Men and that they were going to rule us and if we do not want to be ruled we would be
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killed.  That is how I know it.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much for having related the story to us.  We are not clear as to whether there is anything that you would like to say with regard to this incident.

M X KHULUSA: Yes, there is something that I would like to say.  I want to know from this Commission as to whether what should I do or what steps should I take in order to be able to get payment for my damages.  That is damages to my car and secondly I would like to know as to whether these people who died as well as their families, what reparation can they get from the Truth Commission with regard to the deaths of their family members?

CHAIRPERSON: I shall refer that to Professor Meiring so that he can answer that question for you.

PROF MEIRING: As it happens with all other victims who come to the fore.  When we receive your testimony as we have it, it is referred to the Truth Commission and then they make a finding on whether a person is a victim or not.  After the finding requests are given to the R & R Committee and they try and see what they can do for that.  So, as with all the other cases, your request will be put before the Commission and they will have to act upon that.
 The other people about whom you are concerned.  Maybe you should advice them to come to the Truth Commission and make statements for their own, all by themselves because you cannot make a statement for all the other people, but their families will have to make statements.  So it will be a good idea if you ask them to go make statements and come to the TRC all by themselves.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much for having come to
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appear before this Commission.  We shall contact you in due course as soon as we have conducted our investigation.  Thank you.
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