Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

ADV GCABASHE: You see again your answer suggests to me that the basic purpose for gathering in the Western Transvaal was to protect yourselves, your families, the people you identified with. I put this to Mr Venter, the last witness. These men you left your families at this critical time because I beg your pardon - you left the "wildsplaas" and the "skietbaan" at this critical time because you were going to protect those close and near and dear to you and that in fact is the original purpose for moving up to the Western Transvaal. So the day before all this chaos, all this election fear is supposed to come about you go back to your original purpose for gathering in the Western Transvaal; to protect those you identify with who are close to you. And that is really why people gathered. It wasn't to derail the election. It was to make sure that you as a people were secure until things had settled down.

J P NEL: No Mr Chairperson my instruction was that it would be war. At various other meetings it was said and my instruction was that we are going to fight in this war. And at the game farm we were told that we will disrupt the elections in order to force them to provide us with a "Volkstaat." We believed that if the elections will take place at the end of the day we will not be able to get a Volkstaat with an ANC majority. That is why we went to go and disrupt the elections and to put so much fear in the people that they will not go and vote. We wanted to force the government to give us a "Volkstaat."

ADV GCABASHE: But again the interpretation could be that you were just acting as spoilers, I will use that word just as an easy word, just as spoilers. You didn't really have a political objective. You had a motivation yes, but no real objective when you embarked on these minor missions. You were just acting as spoilers. As a splinter group somebody else might say. What do you say?

J P NEL: No Mr Chairperson I believed that everything was under the hospice of the AWB and that the Generals in staff were present when I was at the meeting that they held. And because of the fact that General Prinsloo was at all times involved with Brigadier Leon van der Merwe and also at the shooting range afterwards when we left to go there General Ackerman Jr. and General Smit with Nico Prinsloo were also present. And I believed that the AWB is giving the instructions. They are leading us in this process and I believed that the AWB is in charge of everything and they will take it further.

MR MALAN: You say that your wife did want to come with you. You did not know but you found out during the day you went to your home?

J P NEL: Yes Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Why didn't she want to go with you?

J P NEL: My wife at that stage was very angry with me because it was my children's' birthday and the ice cream cake was melting at that stage and I said I was leaving.

MR MALAN: Did you meet your wife after that?

J P NEL: After I was arrested my wife came to visit me with my parents and we did reconcile.

MR MALAN: Are you still married?

J P NEL: Yes we are still married.

MR MALAN: Just to add to what Advocate Gcabashe's question. It does not seem as if you wanted to protect your own family. You went to go and protect the land to take it and protect it if I look at your statement now.

J P NEL: I believed that I will go to protect the Volkstaat and as much as I would like to have my wife and children with me I could not force them over the barrel of a gun to come with me. I believed in the ideology. I believed in what was put to me. I believed in the AWB's objectives and the fact that they wanted to establish a volk and a piece of land for us where we could go there afterwards and if God-willing I could get my wife and children and establish them there with me if they wanted to go with me.

MR MALAN: You see the problem is to understand your evidence is with all these convictions and beliefs that you had and the commitments that you had you go now get a pipe bomb. It takes you more than a day to plant this bomb. You visit till late that night with friends. The next day you go back. You report again or you go back to friends again. How does this fit in that you were not then involved in this war? How does it fit in your commitment to this war that you were rather sort of on holiday away from this war? It is very difficult to understand this.

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson I was involved from the beginning on the 14th of April I went up. I was with the people all the time. And the first opportunity that I got was that the day of the 25th.

MR MALAN: Maybe we must just then investigate that. You said the 14th of April you were called up. You went immediately?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

MR MALAN: What did you do from the 14th till the 25th?

J P NEL: The 14th of April we were at Ventersdorp at Trim Park  and then we went to Clifton Barnard's farm. There during the days we did guard duty. We protected the leader's wife. We protected the head office and some of the farmers within the direct vicinity of Ventersdorp.

MR MALAN: The leader, was he at Trim Park  from the 14th?

J P NEL: No Brigadier Leon van der Merwe was there. The leader was at the head office.

MR MALAN: Were you between Trim Park  and head office? You said you protected him.

J P NEL: No our base at that stage where we all gathered with the wives from the Trim Park  was Clifton Barnard's farm. And from there after the wives were with us for a stage and then the wives left to Ottosdal. And from Clifton Barnard's farm at various instances we got instructions that we must go to the leader's house.

MR MALAN: Make it simple for us. This we, is all of them who were there. What did you do from the 14th to the 25th?

J P NEL: My instructions there was to protect the leader.

MR MALAN: Were you constantly with the leader?

J P NEL: No not all the time. I was at the farm or at the leader. Then I went back to Clifton Barnard's farm, then I went to his house to protect him there and then went back to the farm. Where he went during that period before we went to the game farm I had the task to go with them.

MR MALAN: Who gave you the instruction to always go to these different places?

J P NEL: Major Smit and Brigadier Leon van der Merwe he was in command there.

MR MALAN: So you accepted that from the 14th of April to the 25th your contribution to the war was the protection of the leader?

J P NEL: Yes and the fact that with a previous meeting at the Trim Park  before we were called up we were told, that was in the February month that a fax was found where they would hunt the Ystergarde and would kill us.

MR MALAN: But no actions were planned or talk about actions from the 14th till you received the pipe bomb instructions?

J P NEL: No not at all.

MR MALAN: When did you think would the war start?

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson I thought that from my call-up instructions I thought that we are available. That it could happen any time.

MR MALAN: You said that your children's birthday, your wife is angry with you, you walk away and all that you had to do was to protect the leader but anybody else could have done it and you do not think about the war. Did you have troubles at home before you left or only after you left?

J P NEL: It was only after I left there. When I left there yes.

MR MALAN: I can understand if you had troubles and you want to get away from your wife but it is difficult for me to understand if you do not want to leave your wife.

J P NEL: For me the struggle that we were involved in, the fact that I was called up now is the time I believed that then it was told to me that it is going to happen. So I was ready to be available at any time.

MR MALAN: Do you know if your father then went to go and visit your wife and children?