Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-11-15

MR VISSER: Now you've already started telling us about what the letter said, but I want to deal with that in more detail.  First of all, had you seen this child ever before that day?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: I saw him for the first time.

MR VISSER: So you didn't know this child at all?  You never saw him before?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Why is that?  Not seeing your son's child for two years, because he was apparently two years old at the time, wasn't he, in December 1987?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: They were in exile.

MR VISSER: Had you see photographs of him before?  Was a photograph sent to you of this grandchild of yours?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: I hadn't seen photos before, that was for the first time I saw him.

MR VISSER: In fact it seems that there was no contact, either between you and your son, while he was in exile, or between you and Nomasonto Mashiya, while she was in exile, is that correct?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: My son was in Russia.

MR VISSER: That's not my question.  I've put to you that it would appear that there was no contact in any way, between your son and yourself or Nomasonto Mashiya and yourselves, while she was and he was in exile.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: It was during that time, you would not be able to communicate through post or through letters.

MR VISSER: So do you agree with me that there was no communication?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Did you then accept that this child was in fact your son's child when you got the letter?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, Chairperson, I accepted.

MR VISSER: Because there was no way in which you could either confirm that it was so, or confirm that it wasn't so, not so?  You had no contact with your son or with Nomasonto.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, I just accepted that child as my grandchild.

MR VISSER: Where is this child at the moment, is he still alive?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, he's still alive.

MR VISSER: And where is he, where does he live?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: He is staying with me.  We came with him in Johannesburg.  We were not able to come with him here because he's writing exams.

MR VISSER: I didn't want you to bring him here, the point is you have been looking after that child ever since?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: We were helping each other, myself and ...(indistinct) family.

MR VISSER: Yes, alright.  Now when your son returned from exile in 1993, did he recognise the child and confirm that it was his child and that of Nomasonto?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, he confirmed, but we were still waiting for Nomasonto to return.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Now this letter, you say the letter stated how old the child was, did you say that?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, the letter stated that he was just about to finish the second year.

MR VISSER: Did the letter say anything about inoculations that the child has to receive, or injections?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, Chairperson, the letter stated, because the letter was no accompanied by a clinic card, so it was stated in the letter.

MR VISSER: And when you refer to a clinic card, I take it you refer to those certificates which are issued by the clinics, which is a printed form, to say on this date he received that inoculation and the next inoculation he must receive will be on that date, is that what you're referring to?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, that is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And the child's clothes were also brought by these two unknown gentlemen to you?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: That is correct, Chairperson, it was clothes and nappies.

MR VISSER: What did you think was going on when this child arrived on your doorstep?

INTERPRETER: Can you start again, I missed the first part.

MR VISSER: What did you think was going on when this child arrived on your doorstep with two strangers?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: I was scared and surprised, because I was surprised why the child would be brought by male people.

MR VISSER: Did you ask the two gentlemen what their names were and what was going on?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: We asked their identity, but the names are out of my memory.  They said that they were sent by Sonti to bring the child home and that they were comrades.

MR VISSER: You still had this letter in 1993, according to your evidence.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, the letter was there in 1993.

MR VISSER: So where is it now?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: We searched the letter and we couldn't find it.

MR VISSER: Didn't you put it away in a safe place, it was an important letter, wasn't it?  It was the last time and in fact the only time that you heard from Nomasonto since she went into exile.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: I put it on a safe place, then I gave it to my son, so I don't know what happened thereafter.

MR VISSER: Alright, where is your son, Tsietsi?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: He's there.

MR VISSER: He's there, but he's not here today.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: He is present today.

MR VISSER: So perhaps he will give evidence and we might be able to ask him a whole lot of things.  Now, who is this Mr Mashiya?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: He is present today.

MR VISSER: Who is he?  Where does he fit into the picture?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: He's Sonti's father.

MR VISSER: I see.  So are you saying that there were two letters.  The one was addressed to yourself and your husband to look after the child and if you either did not want to or if they could not find you, there was a second letter to Mr Mashiya and I take it to his wife that they must look after the child, is that a reasonable inference to be drawn from your evidence?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, because when we looked at these letters, they were written the same way.  All of them were contained in pink envelopes.

MR VISSER: Yes and it would make sense then that the contents of the letters would have been the same, or similar, the one addressed to you and the one addressed to them, because it would deal with the requirements of the child.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, much of the details were similar.

MR VISSER: Yes, I understand.  How well can you remember the details that were set out in this letter?  Do you have a clear memory or is your memory vague about it?  Because if you say you have a clear memory, I'm going to ask you some more questions about the contents of this letter.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: I have forgotten some of the facts which were contained in the letter.

MR VISSER: Fair enough, it's thirteen years ago, not so, it's a long time ago that this happened.  Do you agree?  One tends to forget things.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: One of the things that I have to ask you about is this, we were given to understand that there was a wedding and at this wedding an unknown female person arrived who gave you certain information about Nomasonto, did that ever happen?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: In regard to that marriage, I was not present, I learnt about the discussion during that wedding, after my son had returned from the Mashiya's family, so they would say much about that.

MR VISSER: I see.  I understand what you say, but then it cannot possibly be correct if somebody stated that you went to Lesotho to go and look for Nomasonto.

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: No, I didn't go to Lesotho.

MR LAX: Just on a point of clarification, you said the wedding was in the Mashiya family, not in her family.

MR VISSER: Well, that's the point, I'm just clarifying, so it must have been her own parents that went and not this person.  And that's all you can tell us about this whole story?  That's all you know about the disappearance of Nomasonto Mashiya?

SIPOLOLO MARIA MOKHELE: That is all, Chairperson, I can tell in regard to her disappearance.

MR VISSER: Well, then I have no further questions, thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER