Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA: Ms Mkhize, I would like to repeat what I said, but put it in the following terms.  We are a black controlled company, as TML, with the National Empowerment Consortium holding a majority shareholding in our controlling company, which is Johnnic.  Our ethos is, essentially, the transformation of the institution that we now have control over.  Processes are in motion, they are being put in place and they are being executed to transform this TML and I am rather glad that you note that the delegation is predominantly white.  We are not going to try to make an excuse for that or run away from it.  	That is what we find in TML and these gentlemen, who sit next to me, admit that that is a problem and have, therefore, embraced this transformational targetry that we now want to proceed along.  I am rather pleased that that has been accepted.  If your Truth Commission meets again in another year, you will find that TML will be transformed from what it is.  We are taking measures and, hence, I also welcome the criticisms that were raised earlier by the speakers or the people who made submissions before me.  This is a matter that we take seriously.  We are not just being flippant about it and we have to do this for commercial reasons as well.  	It is not just for political reasons or for TML to look great or whatever.  It has to be done for commercial reasons, because there is a commercial imperative for companies to transform themselves to begin to reflect the true demographics of this country.  Much more than that one cannot say except to say that, or to stress, that there is a lot of vigour, there is a lot of commitment from the new controllers of this company to transform TML and to make it a company of the new South Africa that we are in.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you comrade Cyril and your delegation.  As I say, it remains for me to really indicate my appreciation for the frankness with which your delegation approached us and gave us a perspective which we, obviously, have to take into account in view of other perspectives.  I think, particularly, it is gratifying to note that there is a conscious realisation that there is a need to move and move ahead as speedily as possible.  I need to say, for my part, that in order for a meaningful future to be built, there is a need to take the present and, especially, as it is also shaped by the past, I would hope that in an endeavour to also say, those who criticise us as the mainstream media, must take into account what we have done and we have done well.  That that predisposition should not lead to a resistance to accept some of the realities, unpalatable realities of the past, because that will, unfortunately, lead to what lawyers call confession and avoidance, where you say, yes, I was wrong, but...  	My experience is that that causes the twin objective of this Commission, reconciliation, come very hard, of achievement, when once there is, possibly, an unconscious resistance to say what are the others, what are the other people saying, because it is only when once you are able to absorb and allow yourself to absorb all that the other people are saying that you will be able to say, wait a minute, I thought that I knew what they were going to say, but now that I have given myself time to think and listen to what they are saying, I am able to find out what they are saying and (indistinct).  	I come from the Eastern Cape and the Eastern Cape has a newspaper that has got a long tradition.  It celebrated 125 years of existence last (indistinct) and as we grew up, it was the champion of progressive thinking in that part of the world.  I heard you site the manner in which it dealt with, for instance, the killing of Steve Biko and stuff like that.  So, to me, that was an image I had of that newspaper and I still have that image, but part of my task in the Commission is to investigate things and one white reporter came to me and said, you know, I had an experience that made me very uncomfortable in that newspaper.  Where a black reporter, Tenjiwe Mtinso, was assisted by that newspaper.  She was given the opportunity to be a reporter, but it was on condition that she should not expect to be remunerated.	He says, I came on as a white reporter, I got into the system and before I knew what was happening, I was well ahead of Tenjiwe. I, being a white reporter who could manage economically and otherwise.  Even as a trainee reporter I was getting payed.  It is a small story, but it just indicates that when we hear these stories and put to you, for consideration, it is not because we have suddenly found (indistinct).  We are saying, listen to what that story says, because it does not make us unaware of the fact that had the Daily Despatch not been there, we possibly would never have known about how Steve Biko died and many other such stories.	There will be lunch served, cold lunch, and it will only be for 25 minutes and we should be back here at two o' clock.  Thank you.

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: We have strictures of time.  Can you please get settled.  The submission we are going to take is from Independent Newspapers and I believe the people, you will place yourselves on record, obviously.  I will ask Commissioner Mkhize to swear you in, but I believe that the people before me are Rory Wilson, Moegsien Williams, Shaun Johnson, Ivan Fallon, but you will, obviously, place yourselves on record.
INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS

UNKNOWN: Welcome, gentlemen.  I will ask you to tell us your names for the record and then stand so that I can swear you in.

IVAN FALLON: Okay, my name is Ivan Fallon and I am the Chief Executive of Independent Newspapers.  I shall stand.

RORY WILSON: My name is Rory Wilson and I am Managing Director of Independent Newspapers in the Cape.

SHAUN JOHNSON: Shaun Johnson, I am Editorial Director of Independent Newspapers.

MOEGSIEN WILLIAMS: I am Moegsien Williams, Editor of The Cape Argus in Cape Town.

UNKNOWN: I will ask you to stand so that you can take the oath.

IVAN FALLON: (Duly sworn in, states).

RORY WILSON: (Duly sworn in, states).

SHAUN JOHNSON: (Duly sworn in, states).

MOEGSIEN WILLIAMS: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Mary Burton is going to facilitate your presentation.

MARY BURTON: Thank you, Chairperson.  I would like to welcome you all here this afternoon and to thank you for your extensive submission which we have before us.  Thank you very much, indeed, for your participation in this process.  Mr Fallon, are you going to, I am only saying that, because you have the mike in front of you, but are you going to introduce the discussion.