Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR SIBANYONI: [inaudible] Mr Sonti, on Page 39 of this document, you are saying - you are referring to Case Number CR 903/95 and when the questions asked on which charge you say, same murder who were found not guilty.  Were you charged for this particular incident and found not guilty?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Sir I only go up to standard 6 as far as my education is concerned.  I have - I was imprisoned concerning this matter.  I went to Alberton.  The trial or the case was at Alberton and I was charged on this matter.  The 1993 matter I was arrested on the 23rd September 1995, released in 1996, 26th January.  I then filled up this form on 10th May 1997.  In other words my lack of education perhaps or because of my lack of education I probably did not answer the questions correctly in the form.

MR SIBANYONI: On Page 37 of your Application you are saying, when you are asked about the political objective, your answer there says, the community of Katlehong were under the attack from IFP hostel inmates.  Further down you are saying, I responded to the call of our political leadership.  Now my first question is, you are only referring to the attack from IFP hostel inmates?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct.

MR SIBANYONI: But the ANC Youth League were not from the hostels and my question is why didn't you mention that?  You were protecting the community from the ANC Youth League who were operating other - which were doing criminal activities in the community, why was that not spelt out clearly?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: As I had already said sir, I am not well educated.  I think the closing date for the Applications, it was in May, there was little time and this is quite a big document.  I did not give myself enough time or I did not have enough time to read through it again to do it thoroughly because I wanted to hand my Application in.

MR SIBANYONI: My second question in this respect will be, where you are saying, "I responded to the call of our political organisation, our political leadership, the ANC".  What call was that?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: To respond to the call of the leaders.  I was trying to say that all the decisions that are made in ANC meetings we would obey, even though we did not get enough time or did not get clarity on the decisions made or the code of conduct what we are supposed to do as the members of the ANC.  As members of the self defence unit, we did go to school but stopped at very low standards, like myself, standard 6.

MR SIBANYONI: Do you agree Mr Sonti that there was no call from the ANC to kill these members of the ANC Youth League?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is correct sir.  There was no call.

MR SIBANYONI: When you were saying people should come to identify dogs with your patrolling the previous day, to whom were you referring as dogs?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Sir, I am divulging all this as I have come to tell the truth.  The night of the conflict Mr Chairperson it is a group that we came across.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Sonti, let me interrupt you, the group you met referred to you as dogs but when you use those words, to whom were you referring as dogs?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I was referring to the people that were found because these were the people that we were in conflict with.  I was referring to the people that we did find.

MR SIBANYONI: [inaudible] the people you captured that's all.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further questions.

MR MALAN: Mr Sonti, first question and I want to re-visit that meeting in Block F where the new SDU was established.  You remember which meeting I'm talking about?  That's the meeting where you were asked to withdraw.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes sir, I do remember.

MR MALAN: Mr Sonti, on that occasion, that meeting was attended eventually by one of your comrades Moloi who was a resident in F, is that correct?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct sir.

MR MALAN: Did Moloi report back to you after that meeting?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Mr Moloi did not get back to me.  He knew what was going to happen sir.  He just disappeared from Extension 2 Moleleki.

MR MALAN: Did you never see him again?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: He never stayed at Extension 2 Moleleki again.  He went home to Qua Qwa.

MR MALAN: So he accepted the community's ruling there, that he was out, that he was not to be a member of the SDU anymore, is that the reason?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I think so sir because he did not bring a report back.

MR MALAN: But you also gave evidence that your SDU also accepted the community's wish?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct sir.

MR MALAN: You are aware that the document that both you and Mr Motlokwa refer to, "For the sake of our lives," says that a community can replace individuals or an entire SDU, you are aware of that?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes that is possible sir.

MR MALAN: Now you also said that at some stage you decided there was no benefit for you in that new SDU, didn't work?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct sir.

MR MALAN: Did you call another meeting again to discuss the formation of yet another SDU?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I did not call a meeting sir to form another SDU.  There was only one SDU.  We wanted to be part of the new one so that we could discuss matters together.

MR MALAN: But eventually you had most of the members of that SDU, the youth members in any event, you had them killed?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct sir.  As I have already said they were from our group.  I did not take part in killing anybody.

MR MALAN: Let me just ask you again about the role of Bulelwa and you would have heard that the question was put to Mr Motlokwa about the rumour that did the rounds, that he killed Bulelwa?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I heard that sir.

MR MALAN: Do you have a comment on that rumour?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: No, no comment sir.

MR MALAN: Now, you also said that Bulelwa did attend that meeting and she didn't speak.  She was told to stay quiet because she's a woman, is that correct?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct.

MR MALAN: Now, on your own evidence you were not present at that meeting, so you didn't speak, you withdrew?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes sir.  I was chased out of the meeting.

MR MALAN: Then when Bulelwa wanted to speak and I assume this is after - when the meeting started, she was made to shut up?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Please listen carefully sir.  Bulelwa did go to the  meeting.  She heard what the people were about, disputed everything, this is when she was told to keep quiet because she was a woman.

MR MALAN: But at that stage you had already left?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: That is her report.  We had already left.

MR MALAN: In other words you are saying Bulelwa told you that she was made to shut up?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Correct.

MR MALAN: Do you have from no other source any information about this because the only other possible source was Moloi and he never returned?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I have already said sir that the people that were attending the meeting or two of the people who attended the meeting are here requesting amnesty.

MR MALAN: Who are those people?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Moses August, Themba Mtshali.

MR MALAN: Did they attend your - were they members of the SDU?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes they were members of the SDU sir.

MR MALAN: Now when you met after that meeting, as SDU, where Bulelwa - where you reported what Bulelwa told you, were they present?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: As I have already said sir, I worked with Bulelwa.  We had meetings on Sundays at Extension 2 Moleleki.