Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-14

WENDY ORR: Ms Dennis welcome to you, who has accompanied you?

UNKNOWN: [indistinct]

WENDY ORR: Your husband, Mr Dennis, welcome to you to.  Are both of you going to give evidence or just Ms Dennis?

UNKNOWN: [indistinct]

WENDY ORR: Net me Dennis.  Can you stand to take the affirmation please?
JASMINA DENNIS Duly sworn states

WENDY ORR: Thank you, Adv Denzil Potgieter is going to facilitate your evidence

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Wendy, Ms Jasmina Dennis good afternoon.  With you is Mr Casiem Dennis, good afternoon to you to and welcome here to both of you. 
 Ms Dennis your evidence goes back to September 1976, to be specific on the 9th of September 1976.  We've previously heard about an incident would have happened the previous day.  It was also a shooting incident when somebody was killed.  In your case the victim was Yvonne Dube.  Is it your sister?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it's my sister.

ADV POTGIETER: Good, both you and your husband and Yvonne were together on that day.  Will you - would you like to tell us what had happened.

UNKNOWN: On the 9th of September 1976, it was during the fast, I, my sister and my husband went to the shops to buy food.  When we came to near the bioscope, people started throwing stones and we were forced to run into Mr Abrahams' shop.  He locked the door and we stood inside until everything had calmed down.  Round about 2 o'clock he told us that we could go out and that we could go home.  
 My husband and I and my sister walked home.  When we passed the police station I looked around and said there's a policeman standing there, aiming his gun at us.  He's going to shoot us and she said you can run, I'm not going to run because we haven't done anything wrong.  And then I stood still and my sister started walking on.  Then suddenly, while standing there. I heard shots.  After that - after this shot had quieted down - I came out and on my way to home my son came running along and said
Mommy, Aunty Eva had been shot.
And I said where is she?  And he said I've picked her up and carried her home.  My husband and I went home and when I came there she was laying on the bed and she could still say
Ja, take me to the hospital because they've shot me.
And she said
Where did they shoot me?
And they said they' shot me because I  haven't done anything.  And I said
Wait, we'll go home to fetch the car.
When I came there my mother asked me where my sister was and I said
No she's at my house.
Because I didn't want to tell her that she had been shot.  While we were standing there, my eldest daughter came there to tell us that her mother had died and - but I said no she couldn't be dead, she's just told me that I had to take her to hospital.  We still put her into the car and took her to the hospital.  The doctor put her on a stretcher and took her into the hospital.  
After a quarter of an hour he came out and he told us that she had died on the way to hospital.  We got into the car and the doctor said we had to go to the police station.  Having arrived there, I told them that I wanted a - to tell them that my sister had been killed and he said
Oh dear, another hotnot-meid had been killed.
And I said it not a dog who had been killed, it's a human being.  Then I turned round and went  home to tell my mother that my sister had been shot.  Thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: You and your husband are Moslem's and Yvonne?

UNKNOWN: She was a Christian, she belonged to the English Church - to the Anglican Church.

ADV POTGIETER: And you said when this happened it happened during the fast.

UNKNOWN: Yvonne us where necessary because my husband also looked after her.  She was not married.

ADV POTGIETER: Then she was shot while you were on your way back home from the shop.

UNKNOWN: After she had said
I'm not going to run because I haven't done anything 
wrong.
 She said
I'm not going to run because I did not do anything wrong.
There was no necessity for anybody to shoot her at all.  We were the only people in that road.

ADV POTGIETER: At which police station was that?

UNKNOWN: It was at Paarl East.

ADV POTGIETER: When you saw the police, were they carrying guns?

UNKNOWN: Mr Carstens said you had to go home now  - he was the officer in charge and my sister said you could see we were going home.  It was his duty to see that that policeman would not shoot us, because there were no people around us.  We didn't do anything wrong.  But he did not even do that, he could not stop them at all, he did not try to stop them at all.

ADV POTGIETER: So it was only one policeman who shot at you?

UNKNOWN: Ja, it was only one policeman with a gun standing at the door

ADV POTGIETER: And it looked as if he was going to shoot?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he pointed the gun at us and that's why I ran away but she didn't run away.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you know that policeman?

UNKNOWN: No, I didn't know him although he was stationed at the Paarl East police station - he was a white man.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you know where Yvonne was shot - was she in somebody's yard or was she in the road?

UNKNOWN: Yes, no END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A...  [indistinct] husband were estranged.

ADV POTGIETER: They were estranged at that stage?

UNKNOWN: Yes, she had five children.

ADV POTGIETER: And they all  - they lived with her?

UNKNOWN: Yes, they all lived together.  Her baby child was 13 years old.  She supported her children with my husband's assistance because she also didn't work.  My husband was a hawker and she assisted him.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes, she helped Mr Dennis.

UNKNOWN: The income she obtained was from my husband.

ADV POTGIETER: The income she obtained from helping your husband she used to bring up her children.  She was about 43 when she died and the children were they still young?

UNKNOWN: Yes, the eldest daughter were just over 20 years.

ADV POTGIETER: When she died, what happened to the children?

UNKNOWN: My husband had to care for the children because they had no income.  He was a hawker and then he had to care for 2 households.  He accepted the responsibility to also support those 5 children.  We also had to bury her.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you have your own children?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we have eight children and we had to bring them up as well.

ADV POTGIETER: You yourself did not work?

UNKNOWN: No, I didn't work, only my husband worked.

ADV POTGIETER: Was there a court case after this incident afterwards?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there was.  The Magistrate asked Captain Carstens whether he ordered the people to shoot and said no he never ordered them to shoot.  Then the Magistrate asked why did the policeman shoot at these people and he said he couldn't answer that question.

ADV POTGIETER: What happened to the policeman, was he punished?

UNKNOWN: No, because the Magistrate said if I was not able to identify the number on his jacket, they could not accuse him.  So the two of them told them that I could not say who actually shot because I have no real evidence and therefore nothing happened afterwards.

ADV POTGIETER: Was any claim instituted for any money?

UNKNOWN: Nothing, nothing at all.  Not a sent we received.

ADV POTGIETER: Ms Dennis is there anything else that you would like to add before I turn to Mr Dennis?

UNKNOWN: I just want to say that I was very sad to loose my sister in such a way.  After we did not do anything wrong, I felt very sorry that she was shot dead like a dog and I felt very sorry for her children because they had no parents to care for them.
And it was very hard for them and if it were not for my husband, I don't know what would have happened to them.  The eldest one is still without work and I still have to care for him.  I can't let him sleep in my home and there is not even money to look after - to care for him because he is sickly.  I would like that a plan would be made that he can get disability grant because he - perhaps is very ill.