Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-07-07

DR MIJBURGH: No, we knew what we were making, the name ecstasy was just only not known to me then, but only became known to me about a year ago.

MR VALLY: And at that stage what did you think you were making?

DR MIJBURGH: An amphetamine derivative.

MR VALLY: And where did you get the formula from?

DR MIJBURGH: Are you referring to the formula ...(intervention)

MR VALLY: I'm talking about the formula for MDMA, your code name Baxil, where did you get the formula from?

DR MIJBURGH: I'm not sure what you're referring to, are you referring to TRC 77?

MR VALLY: I'm talking about the 1000 kilograms of what you call Baxil, which we know now is ecstasy.

DR MIJBURGH: We had an order from the Defence Force for a specific substance.

MR VALLY: Where did you get the formula from as to how to manufacture it?

DR MIJBURGH: The manufacturing method was established and developed at Delta-G.  Dr Johan Koekemoer developed it.

MR VALLY: What was this made for, the ecstasy?

DR MIJBURGH: It was - the MBMA was manufactured for the Defence Force, for their order.

MR VALLY: What for?

DR MIJBURGH: The Defence Force indicated that they wanted a certain quantity of it as a potential incapacitating substance.

MR VALLY: Was the head of research at the time Dr Koekemoer whom you referred to earlier?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't know if he was the head of research, there were three senior researchers, it could have been him or Dr Gert Lourens.

MR VALLY: Well you just advised us that Dr Koekemoer was the person who determined the process.

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: So he would have been closely involved?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: He had given us evidence to the effect that he didn't think that ecstasy was a very effective incapacitant, that he was concerned about this issue, concerned enough to have raised it with various people.  Did he raise his concerns with you?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Do you know General Neethling?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Personally?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Did he visit you at Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: Not as far as I know.

MR VALLY: He may have?

DR MIJBURGH: It's possible, but I can't remember that he ever came to Delta-G.

MR VALLY: What dealings did you have with him?

DR MIJBURGH: I met General Neethling in the early 80's, the Defence Force sent me along with him to a conference in Israel, I think it was a forensic conference, and the purpose for my going along was to look at certain water canons from a medical point of view.  The Police wanted to procure these at the time in connection with the security aspect, whether it could injure people, etc.  And from time to time, I in my capacity as Managing Director of Delta-G had contact with the Forensic Department of the Police and purely on the basis of courtesy I would have phoned him to talk about analytical methods.  And on a social level, my in-laws or my wife's father also studied with General Neethling and they were friends.  So on that basis, on a social basis, I also had contact with him and got to know him.

MR VALLY: So your dealings with him, if I understand you correctly, were in the early 80's, you went to Israel together, while you were still with Special Forces?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes, when I was with SAMS.

MR VALLY: When you were with South African Medical Services to look at water canons?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: But you were an ordinary doctor at Special Forces?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes, I was a medical officer at that stage.

MR VALLY: Why would they send you to look at water canons?

DR MIJBURGH: I'm assuming that the Police requested a medical doctor to go along.

MR VALLY: I see.  You're not sure why you were chosen?

DR MIJBURGH: I can't specifically recall why I was chosen to go, I was relatively junior as a medical officer, and I went along as a doctor.

MR VALLY: Where did you qualify?

DR MIJBURGH: University of Pretoria.

MR VALLY: Which date?

DR MIJBURGH: 1979.

MR VALLY: So it was shortly after your qualification as a medical doctor you were sent to Israel with General Neethling to look at water canons?

DR MIJBURGH: Three or four years afterwards, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When you got there, what did you then understand, what was the purpose of your being asked to be part of that delegation?

DR MIJBURGH: I beg your pardon.

CHAIRPERSON: When you got there, what did you understand to have been the reason why you had been asked to accompany ...(intervention)

DR MIJBURGH: I had to comment on the safety aspect of the water canons in terms of the jet of water, whether this could injure people's eyes, whether the pressure was too high, etc.  It wasn't a particularly complex issue.

CHAIRPERSON: So there was a purpose for you?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You understood that before you left?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally?

MR VALLY: Surely the Police have their own medical doctors, why did they need a military doctor?

DR MIJBURGH: The Police didn't have medical doctors at that stage that I was aware of.

MR VALLY: Well fine, your other dealings with Dr Neethling is out of courtesy you'd phone him about certain analytical details.

DR MIJBURGH: If people wanted to consult with him, yes.  It happened from time to time that from Delta-G's analysts phoned the Forensic Department.

MR VALLY: So there was regular on-going contact between Delta-G people and General Neethling?

DR MIJBURGH: It wasn't on such a regular basis, it happened from time to time.  If you want me to say how regularly, it was once or twice a year, if that often.

MR VALLY: I see.  No other dealings with General Neethling?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: You're not aware of 200 000 mandrax tablets being brought to you?

DR MIJBURGH: I think at one stage we extracted methaqualone from tablets at the request of the Defence Force, but I cannot recall this specifically.  I just read this in the notes which were mentioned here.

MR VALLY: You're not aware of it personally?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I wasn't personally involved.

MR VALLY: As Managing Director of Delta-G would you not have known if such a thing had happened?

DR MIJBURGH: I would have know about it, yes.

MR VALLY: Did you have the facility to crush the tablets and extract methaqualone?

DR MIJBURGH: I'm sure that we would have been able to do it, yes.

MR VALLY: You're not aware of it ever having being done while you were at Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: I cannot recall this specific case.

MR VALLY: Can you recall any case where you crushed tablets to extract certain active ingredients?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I cannot recall one specific case.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I don't understand that, Mr Mijburgh, with respect.  What is your reply, are you saying there could have been an occasion where this happened, except that you don't recall it, or are you saying in fact it never happened?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I cannot recall the specific case, but it could have happened.  I think it did happen, but I cannot recall the specific case.

CHAIRPERSON: So in other words you know that it did happen, that you know, you know that these things were crushed there for the purpose indicated by Mr Vally, but you can't say it happened on such and such a date and I was present - so and so was present?  You don't recall that details, but you know that an event ...(intervention)

DR MIJBURGH: Yes, we did it, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally?

MR VALLY: Your answer to the Chairperson is slightly different from what you told me earlier, and let me get clarity on this, you are aware, other than what you heard at our hearing, that there was an occasion where tablets were crushed and certain active ingredients were extracted?

DR MIJBURGH: Methaqualone was extracted from tablets, yes.

MR VALLY: When?

DR MIJBURGH: I do not know exactly when it happened because I cannot recall the specific case.

MR VALLY: Was this when you were Managing Director?

DR MIJBURGH: I think so, yes.