Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-12-02

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I knew him because his house was alongside the road, so on my way to the bus stop I would pass his home.
	The bus stop is actually, his house is actually on the way to the bus stop.

MR LAX: Why did you go there to attack his house?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: That was because they had attacked the IFP.

MR LAX: Who is they?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Mr Mthetwa and them.

MR LAX: And who else?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I do not know the others because I did not see them.

MR LAX: So you didn't know whether anyone else there had attacked the IFP, as far as you were concerned, you only knew that Mthetwa had attacked the IFP?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes, I knew Mthetwa.

MR LAX: No, no, I know that you knew Mthetwa.  How did you know that he had attacked the IFP?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I had been told by Zulu that we would actually find these people at his house.

MR LAX: Zulu told you that you would find the attackers, did he say the attackers of your father, did he say the attackers of the ANC on the IFP, what did he say?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: He had just referred to them as ANC people.

MR LAX: He just said the ANC people, he didn't say the people who had attacked your home, or the people who had attacked your area, he just said the ANC people?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: He just said that they were ANC people who we would have found at Mthetwa's house, as the instructions from Buxusa.

MR LAX: So you went there simply to attack ANC, as far as you were told by him?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes.

MR LAX: You weren't going to attack people who had attacked your area as far as you knew, you were just going there because they were ANC and Buxusa as far as you knew, had said you must go and attack the ANC at that area?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes, it was also to prevent their attacks, because they had actually attacked us many times before.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Maharaj?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Thank you.  As I understand your evidence Mr Luthuli, you were in the company of the applicant and you were in the company of two other persons, that is Zita Zulu and the other person.  Can you please tell the Committee where were the deceased at the time that you arrived at Mthetwa's house?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: They were under a tree.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Did the deceased and the other two persons that you attempted to murder, where were they in relation to the tree?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: They were a group sitting around and they were just talking.  They were a large group and they were just discussing something, although I did not hear what they were talking about.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Can you estimate approximately how many people were they within this group?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Although I did not count them, there may have been about 20 or more, because they were quite a sizeable group.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Would you regard there as having been a person amongst the four of you, who was the leader of your group?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: There was one leader.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Who was that?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: The honourable Mr Zulu here, who was the Organiser of the Youth in the IFP.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: How is it that you came to attack specifically these four persons that have died, and the two persons who you attempted to murder?  Was the attack specifically levelled at these six people or was it an attack that was levelled generally at any members of this congregation of the IFP Unit that you attacked?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: We were attacking anybody, everyone there.  Anybody could have gotten injured, but we were not attacking women.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: So Mr Luthuli, are you saying that no specific instruction was given to you by Mr Zulu that you should attack these six people, because these six people were part and parcel of a group that attacked the IFP area on a certain date?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, he did not.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: You told the Committee as well Mr Luthuli, that your father was killed by this group that belonged to the ANC?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Was this attack that you were part of, levelled at the members of the ANC as a result of you wanting vengeance for the killing of your father or did it have any political, was there any political reason behind it?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: It was just trying to prevent a situation where they would launch further attacks on us.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Is there any particular reason Mr Luthuli, why you didn't disguise yourself at the time that you perpetrated this attack on the deceased and the victims in the Supreme Court trial?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: We did not disguise ourselves, because we were at war with them, because even when they attacked us, they would not disguise themselves.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Why is it that Maria Gcabashe's life was spared at the time that you attacked these people?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I don't remember a woman being killed from either side.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Mr Luthuli, in the event of your father having been killed by a fellow IFP member within your community, what action would have been appropriate to be taken by the people that belonged to the IFP in those circumstances?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: It would have been regarded as a mistake, but I don't think it would have been taken as an intentional killing.  It would have been discussed.

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: Thank you Mr Chairperson, that is the evidence of Mr Luthuli.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAHARAJ

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Maharaj.  Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MS THABETE: Yes Mr Chairman.  Mr Luthuli, are you in prison right now?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes.

MS THABETE: Which prison?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Westville prison.

MS THABETE: Is it the same prison where Mr Zulu is?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No.  I don't know where Mr Zulu is.

MS THABETE: Why didn't you apply for amnesty?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I did not get the opportunity, I cannot even write, I am illiterate.

MS THABETE: Would it not be correct to say that you did not apply for amnesty because you knew that the act that you had committed, was not political?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, that is not so.

MS THABETE: So you are saying that you did not apply because you did not know that you had to apply?  Is that what you are saying?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Yes, and I cannot even read or write.

MS THABETE: I don't know whether I heard you correct - yes, you see Mr Luthuli, there are many people like you who can't write, but the prison officials could have assisted you, should you have told them that you wanted to apply.
	Let's go on, let's proceed.  I don't know whether I heard you correctly in your evidence, did you say that Zakhele told you to go and kill at Mthetwa's place?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: Zakhele actually found me at the kwaMashu hostel.

MS THABETE: What I am asking is, did you say Zakhele told you to go and kill Mr Mthetwa?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: He came to me with what he had been told by Buxusa.

MS THABETE: When you came to Mthetwa's place, how many people were there?

CHAIRPERSON: In which group?  At Mthetwa's place or in his group?

MS THABETE: At Mthetwa's place?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: I think about 20.

MS THABETE: In your own words, why did you kill the deceased?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: We killed them because they usually launched attacks against the IFP.

MS THABETE: Do you know anything about the gang that called themselves Sinamandla?

LINDA HEMAN LUTHULI: No, I do not.

MS THABETE: No further questions Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Thabete.  Any re-examination Mr Maharaj?

SATHYANDRANATH RAGUNANAN MAC MAHARAJ: No re-examination Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MAHARAJ