Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-11

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, as a commander he is the one who was connected with MZ and he is the person we were asking and actually taking instructions from and we would report everything to him.

SISI KHAMPEPE: How long after Mrs Xhaba had been killed did you bring this operation to Mr Lethuli's attention?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Maybe after a week but after some days, but we did not tell him immediately because he did come there to us and then we told him when he arrived.  We did not tell him immediately because we couldn't communicate with him.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now when you were questioned by Mr Hewitt you stated that it wasn't your policy to shoot a person from behind, do you remember when you were questioned by Mr Hewitt and you responded in that fashion?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do remember.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Are you able to advise this Committee how many persons you did shoot, not from behind but whilst they were facing you in close proximity as Mrs Xhaba was?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I cannot say that.  What I can say is that there is no-one that I have shot behind, that I can say.  I've never shot anyone from behind.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Moloi, do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MR MOLOI: Thank you Chairperson.  I just need to clear a few points here.
	Mr Khumalo, you said your duty as it were was to ward off any attack on the IFP or its membership, am I right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is the truth.

MR MOLOI: And to that extent you would not spare any effort to protect the IFP?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I would do anything to protect the IFP, even the spilling of blood in protecting myself and protecting the IFP.

MR MOLOI: In Incident 5 for which you apply for amnesty, you apply for amnesty in respect of murder, attempted murder, assault and conspiracy, am I right?  Page 359 of your affidavit.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: You refer here to an occasion when Ngcobe's house was burnt down, am I right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

MR MOLOI: You further testified this morning that you were armed with a .38 revolver, right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: You said that the situation was tense and stone were thrown first and later fire was exchanged, right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: And you emphatically said you did not shoot at all in this particular instance, am I right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it's the truth.

MR MOLOI: If your duty was to protect the IFP, especially under attack and armed as it were with a revolver on this particular day, why did you not shoot?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: When there's throwing of stones nobody actually came close by, at a shooting range.  If I could shoot because a particular person was giving a particular it would be wasting the bullets because my revolver wouldn't even reach there.  I even remember that the shooting of the gun, they were actually shooting because they were cornered.  Otherwise there was no close encounter so that I could just shoot.

MR MOLOI: The second point I would like to clear up is relating to Incident 7, the Three Lines attack.  You said in that respect you were the only one armed with a firearm and the others had knives of bush knives, am I right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is the truth.

MR MOLOI: And you admit having fired a shot in that instance, right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: You further stated that one person remained on the ground, you even looked at him and confirmed he was dead, right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I stabbed that person with the aim of killing this person but, because I actually felt that I did not accomplish my mission.

MR MOLOI: From your observations of this person, what caused his death, a gunshot or a stab wound, merely from your observations?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Well I couldn't establish that.

MR MOLOI: You tell this Committee that the interests of the IFP were primary in your mind when you acted as you did, is that correct?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: You were not quite happy with your position at Koeberg, am I correct to assume that?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Maybe you should actually clarify, I can't quite get your question.

MR MOLOI: At Koeberg, you were not getting your usual salary of plus minus R900 to which you had grown accustomed and instead you were paid R300.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is the truth.

MR MOLOI: You were not happy with that set of facts were you?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I wasn't happy because we were promised that we will continue earning that money and we wouldn't lose any rights.  If I was told that everything would be like that then I wouldn't have complained.

MR MOLOI: So the promise that was broken about what your income would be made you disgruntled or you became disgruntled as a result?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is like that.

MR MOLOI: Likewise at Secunda where you were posted by the very IFP, you wouldn't stick because the money was not right, am I right?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, even there money, just money.  I didn't have much problems with the money, the main problem was the promises that were never kept because when we left we were told that we will get paid for three to four months so I knew that by March we wouldn't be getting that money and then we will continue getting that R500.  I didn't have a problem with that because I knew that ultimately I will earn that money.  My main problem was the breaking of the promise.

MR MOLOI: And ...[inaudible] of force to those broken promises was money, is it not?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: No, I wouldn't say it's money.  It's just that it's so unfortunate that the promise that was made involved money but according to myself or what I didn't like is the breaking of the promise.  That the promise, it would have been for anything but any promise that is never kept I don't like.  But unfortunately, I don't know whether I should say unfortunately or fortunately money was involved.

MR MOLOI: If then Mr Khumalo, money was not the issue, why did you raise these issues in your evidence?  Why did you say: "I was working six to six and paid only R500"?  Why did you raise these issues and also Koeberg: "I was used to R900 plus minus and suddenly I'm earning only R300 and I'm not happy"?  Why didn't you just refer to promises that were broken?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: The reason that made me leave the Special Constable position and leave Sasol, the main thing I was trying, because the person asked me why I left and actually asked me why I left Sasol and this is how this thing was revealed.  That I left because of the promises that were never kept, that's how this thing came about.

MR MOLOI: If I understood your evidence properly one of the promises that was made to you from the onset was that you would be protected at all times, is it not?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: And it is your evidence that when you needed
protection, accommodation, a hiding place, you were denied the same by MZ Khumalo, he wouldn't offer you that, am I right?  That was your evidence.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is like that.

MR MOLOI: And yet you did not abandon your task that was entrusted to you because that promise was broken, did you?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it is so.

MR MOLOI: Why then where money is the issue you then just drop everything and leave?  Is it not personal interest?