Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-13

MR REDPATH: As the Committee pleases.  Mr Chairperson, as I have indicated on behalf of my clients, there will be no statement or evidence at this stage.
 We however, do not wish to create the perception that we do not want to be of assistance to this Commission.  We most dearly do wish to be of assistance.
 We have had insufficient time and information initially placed at our disposal to investigate the incident, the alleged incident.
 There was additional information made available to us only this morning through yourself Mr Chairman and a great deal of further investigation in regard to the Stutterheim affairs or battles as you've termed them, need to be done.
 In respect of the evidence of Busika, I would wish to draw a distinction.  Obviously what this witness alleges happened to her whilst she was busy serving her prison sentence, I do not understand that evidence to implicate my clients, the police, in any way.
 I hold no brief for anyone other than the police, so our investigations will be limited only to that aspect of her evidence which implicates them.
 If my understanding in this regard is incorrect, then we would appreciate being advised of that fact timeously if at all possible.
 Further in regard to Busika and Maqubela, it is Maqubela who spoke of a trial within a trial.  I am instructed that these versions which these two witnesses placed before the Committee this morning, are most probably and I must stress this, most probably, the same versions that were placed on their behalf before the trial court, in the trial within a trial.
 I cannot verify that at this stage, that is one of the aspects why we need time to investigate and see whether it is the same incident.  Mr Chairperson, if indeed it is the same incident, then with respect I would refer the Committee to the trial record in that case.
 It would have been the Supreme court of the Eastern Cape Provincial Division sitting on circuit in East London.  Mr Chairperson, in regard to this specific incident, I have nothing further to add to the record at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Redpath.  Just to give you clarity on the matter of Neliswa Busika.
 You are representing Mr Dion Oates.

MR REDPATH: I am representing Oates, Swanepoel, Ntebe I understand is deceased, and in the letters presented to us there is a Mr Peters.  On the information given to us he is apparently the one who gave certain orders at one stage.
 There may be an identification problem with regard to him at a later stage, so I am unwilling to disclose whether such a Mr Peters actually exists by that name, at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I was referring you to the matter of Neliswa Busika, specifically because I want us to draw a distinction between two alleged perpetrators in that regard.
 There are those which are mentioned in the statement which relate to the pre-trial period, the detention and the pre-trial period and I think Mrs Neliswa Busika said in her testimony that she has not provided us at this stage with the prison officials.

MR REDPATH: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So, we do not have that information, so as soon as she has informed us who the perpetrators are, we are going to then inform them and we understand that you do not have a brief for those people at this stage, because they are not on record.
 Indeed, perhaps when she gives us the name, they may approach somebody to represent them, not necessarily yourself.

MR REDPATH: Correct, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We are not contemplating making a finding at this stage on any of the perpetrators mentioned in the four testimonies we have listened to.
 We understand that you are going to apply your mind to what you have heard and decide whether you want to make a statement to us or not.  If we are contemplating making the finding, which is detrimental to your clients whom you have mentioned, we will definitely inform them through your office.

MR REDPATH: Mr Chairperson, I don't know if this is the correct forum, but might I request that a typed copy of the evidence as given by the witnesses, be made available to us?

CHAIRPERSON: Indeed, you will have to approach our office in writing and we will translate the information to the relevant office.
 Thank you very much Mr Redpath.

MR REDPATH: Thank you Mr Chairman.