Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: What happened there?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: On arrival we reported to Mrs Umbiasi what had happened and she was excited and she said she was going to phone Brigadier Msemela and inform him about this and he left it to Dina to inform Captain Hlungwane at Ulundi.

MR WILLS: Do you know if Mrs Umbiasi ever did phone Brigadier Msemela?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.

MR WILLS: How do you know that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I know this because Brigadier Msemela was someone that I did really contact, he was excited about the death of Sergeant Khumalo and because I knew that I did not inform him, Mrs Umbiasi therefore must have informed him.

MR WILLS: Sorry, I think Sergeant Khumalo's younger brother indicated in his questioning of Mr Mkhize that Brigadier Msemela attended the funeral and I think he said he provided a goat for the family to be slaughtered, did you hear that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I did.

MR WILLS: So why do you think, I mean this contradicts completely with the evidence that you're giving at this point in time, can you try and explain that to us?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I think Brigadier Msemela did that, who was in charge and superior to Sergeant Khumalo and after having worked under him for a very long time he could have easily done that even though he may not have been killed by Brigadier Msemela.  That was a way of showing, a way of acknowledgement for Sergeant Khumalo as a police that was working under him but what he did considering that was himself who killed Sergeant Khumalo, he was trying to cover up and shame the Khumalo family.

MR WILLS: Did Mrs Umbiasi ever report back about her telephone conversation with Brigadier Msemela to you?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: After phoning him it was indicated that Brigadier Msemela had already been informed about everything and indicated that Brigadier Msemela was going to phone Ulundi and report what has happened and said that she should wait and he would phone her back and indicate to her what it is being said by Ulundi but Brigadier Msemela did not phone back later instead Captain Hlungwane is the one who phoned explaining that Brigadier Msemela has already informed him about the whole thing and he then gave the instruction that Sergeant Khumalo must be dead by Monday.

MR WILLS: Sorry, you're misunderstanding the phone call Mr Mbambo, I know you've been in the witness box for some time.  I'm referring to the phone call after you reported to Mrs Umbiasi that Sergeant Khumalo had been killed.  You indicated that she was going to phone Brigadier Msemela?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Did you get any feedback in relation to that phone call i.e. the phone call that was made after you had reported that Msemela was killed, not before when the order was given?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I cannot remember quite well whether she phoned him at that time because it was now late at night.

MR WILLS: I just want to refer you to the bottom of page - paragraph 82 on page 37.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Wills, I think the confusing thing to Mr Mbambo is the date because I think that telephone conversation that you want him to give evidence to is the one which Mrs Umbiasi made on a Monday.

MR WILLS: Yes thank you, I'm also getting tired, thank you Ms Committee Member.
	The phone call was made later the following Monday to Msemela between Mrs Umbiasi and Msemela, was the contents of that phone call reported back to you at all?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes we did discuss that with Mrs Umbiasi.  She explained that Msemela was so excited about the death of Sergeant Khumalo.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, is this a convenient time to take the lunch adjournment?  I'm going to move on to the next incident now.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think so Mr Wills, I see it's just before one o'clock, we will now adjourn for lunch.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills just before the lunch adjournment you said it was it was a convenient stage to adjourn because you were getting on to a new aspect.  You may continue.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: (s.u.o.)

MR WILLS: (continues)
	Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mbambo I refer you to page 38 of the record, your paragraph 84.  This is an incident in respect of which Mr Mkhize's testified quite extensively - it concerns the activities that stemmed from the assassination or the killing of certain policemen and notably Constable Danka.  A meeting shortly after Danka's death was held.  Can you just describe the details concerning that meeting?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We held at meeting at the IFP offices at Empangeni.  The people who were present was myself, Dina Mkhize, Zwele Dlamini, Joyful Mtetwa and M.R. Mkhize as well as Israel Shlangwane.

MR WILLS: Now what was the purpose of the meeting?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: J1 section at eSikhawini had endured several attacks of KwaZulu Police.  The names of such police have been mentioned before this Commission.  One of the policemen who had been killed in that area was Constable Danka therefore we were discussing that this area should be attacked urgently so that we could demonstrate our retaliation for the death of Constable Danka.

MR WILLS: You subsequently as a group and those persons have been mentioned by Mkhize attacked J2 section, is that right?  The university lecturer section, is that right?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: You also used a KwaZulu Police vehicle ZP777 and attacked ANC areas generally that night?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You got ammunition for this attack, can you remember where?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: At the meeting in the IFP offices, Joyful Mtetwa reported that he couldn't be present when we executed this operation.  What he could do was to give us guns and ammunition.  We told him that the only thing that we required was ammunition for AK47 rifles and that we wouldn't require guns as such and that afternoon we went to his house together with Constable Mtetwa who worked at the B.S.I.  We went to Constable Joyful Mtetwa's house at Ensileni.  He then gave us ammunition for AK47 rifles.
  We returned to eSikhawini.  On the very same evening Dina Mkhize who was driving a ZP777 arrived, he was with Zwele Dlamini and Siam Umbiasi.  At that time Israel Hlungwane stayed with me, we shared the same house.  We took the guns and some hand grenades and we proceeded to J1.

MR WILLS: Yes you detail clearly in the following certain paragraphs that you attacked J1 and J2 and that you then returned to Mrs Umbiasi's house, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: And she asked you a question, can you recall what that was?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Can you please repeat the question?

MR WILLS: She asked you, on your return, she asked you a question can you recall?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We found her sitting outside her house, if I remember correctly she was not alone, Chief Mataba was also present at the house but when we actually arrived at Mrs Umbiasi's house Chief Mataba was at a house that is opposite her house.  He was drinking a few cans of Hansas which were on top of his car.
	As I've mentioned Mrs Umbiasi was waiting for us outside when we returned.  She then asked what kind of guns were we using tonight because the way that the shots were ringing out I could hear from here that they were not the usual type of shots I normally hear.

MR WILLS: Yes you've indicated by default that she wasn't at the meeting at the IFP offices is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: But she still knew what you were going to be up to that night?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: Now that is the evening that Mkhize has referred to that the woman who you knew as Mathilda was killed is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.