Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-29

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: As I have already said, Mama, that this man use to kill children and police would see him and the police were looking after him, but the day he came to shoot at our house, even now I would, I would like to, I would really like to see him coming to apologise to us.  There are many things that he did.  There are so many statements, we put the down, we wrote them down, but those statements were never taken any further and one of the days our statements were brought into civic centre, but nothing came out of this.  This showed that he was working with the previous regime, that all the things, all the attempt we had tried, there was nothing that came of it, because one small child saw them and even my husband saw them.
 And one of the soldiers said we are looking after his house.  In the meantime he is the one who is organising the burning of other houses and some of the neighbours did see his combi was near our section.  Many people saw it and ran away from it.  There was nobody who could help us, but we have only had all those things after this incident had happened quite a long time ago and we had already been released at the hospital.  I really would like to see him coming to ask for forgiveness.  I forgave him on that very day, but I still want him to come out, because he was working with this organisation that did not want to see a Black person liberated here.

CHAIRPERSON: You said at the time when you were injured in your hand, you spent an amount of R37 000,00.  Why were you being treated and for what reason?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: The small child, when Dr Ledwaba transferred me to Johannesburg Hospital, at Johannesburg Hospital I spent R4 000,00.  This other child spent R37 000,00 at the Union Hospital.  We do have documentation to attest to what I am saying.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you pay that R37 000,00?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Yes, it was paid.

CHAIRPERSON: Who paid that?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Our elder son paid this amount.  Even now there is no good communication.  My husband is too involved in politics.  Even my son use to complain that my father is involved in politics.  Now I am getting all these expenses, because of him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  I will give this opportunity to other people to ask you questions.  Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Mama Mavuso, I would like to know as to whether this child who had been shot, did this child get any counselling and how old was this child?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: This child was six years old.

MS SEROKE: And did you try to get counselling for this child?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Round about 1994 my husband started working with the Lifeline counselling.  They did try to get counselling for this child, but most of the time this child  still keeps saying, granny, I will, one day when I grow up I will work and become a soldier, get a gun and kill these men and that is why, so he still has, full of this hatred and that is why I say he will kill this man who did this gross act.

MS SEROKE: And what is your husband doing?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: He is still the Priest of the Church of Christ.

MS SEROKE: So, he still does have a congregation?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Yes, we rented a school.  We are still not able to live in our house.  We are living at my in-laws, but we are able to run our church services in the school.  At Eden Park when I started staying there I got a lot of jobs.  Now we are paying about R950,00 for a double garage and two rooms so that we can live there.  Last year, in 1996, my husband said we must go back home rather than pay so much money.  Indeed, we have gone back to Ndebele Section.  That is, in fact, to my in-laws.  That is where we are living with my in-laws, my father and other children.

MS SEROKE: What is happening to your house?  You have not renovated your house?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: They are busy renovating the houses in Thokoza, but things in Thokoza are still not in good condition.  We still have the taxi problems and a bit of tension.  In Thokoza they are renovating the houses and that those other people who moved into peoples' houses who were victims of the violence, they are now moving out, but they are breaking down the houses as they are moving out of them, but there is an organisation of the people who tried to return the refugees into, who were victims of the violence in their own houses, but this is not the ANC.  This is just another new organisation, but I am not, I cannot remember exactly.
 They have contacted other members of the community.  The Government is prepared to renovate our houses and, but there is a third element that is involved.  They go and vandalise these houses that the Government is trying to fix, but we can see there is progress on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama, I just have a few questions.  Did you ever make a statement to the police about this matter?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Many a time.

YASMINE SOOKA: And nothing has happened?

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Nothing.  Those people are still living in Thokoza.  He is still working with a beautiful car.  I remember one day I was going to buy the vegetables for the children and when I just came out of the fruit shop, he went in.  He was shocked, I was shocked.  He touched me, he said hello Mrs Mavuso.  He did not know what to do.  I gave him my hand, because I had fears and everything.  He is still a beautiful, handsome man working with beautiful cars.  Nobody has been arrested.

YASMINE SOOKA: Well, let me just tell you that there, you know, I do know that the Attorney-General of Johannesburg was, in fact, investigating a number of cases around Bishop Khumalo and the Khumalo Gang.  So, I think that the investigation, obviously, still is in progress.  The TRC has also received a number of statements from people who have suffered a similar fate in Thokoza.  So, an investigation is also taking place at that level.  So, we hope that by the end of the term of the TRC we will be able to give you some more information.

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Alright.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Mama.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your coming here.  We hope that when you go back you will be safe and what you have already related here in this Commission will be a way of beginning to heal yourself and your family so that you can move on and have re-established the contacts with the community especially the Minister's fraternity.  We think that they can assist you if they can find a way of getting in touch with them and turn to some negotiations to resolving this issue.  Thank you.

SARAFINA THANDI MAVUSO: Thank you.