Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-09-10

MR FORTUIN: Do you know whether in the National Office or in the Regional Office ...

CHAIRPERSON: No, let's put it this way, were you authorised, have you been authorised by the PAC to come and give evidence today?  Isn't that what you are trying to get?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Members of the PAC came, that is where I am going to go and give a report to when I leave here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  So were you, the question is have you been authorised and asked by the PAC to come and give evidence?  I think the lawyer wishes to know whether you are authorised by the PAC to come and give evidence, either yes or no.

WILFRED SITYODAMA: No.

MR FORTUIN: I have no further questions, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR FORTUIN: .

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any questions to ask?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, just a few Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

MR MAPOMA: When did you as the PAC Branch have the data base?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: We started to establish our data base in 1992.

MR MAPOMA: And I take it that each and every Executive member of the Branch had access to the data base, is that so?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Yes, all Executive members have a right to look at the data base.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: What work do you do?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: At the Medical Centre at Elsies.

ADV SANDI: When you say in 1993 you reported, you say we reported the attacks to the Police.  Who is we who did that?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: It was myself and other members of the Executive of the Branch.

ADV SANDI: You reported at the same Police station as the one you reported in 1991?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Yes, at Nyanga.

ADV SANDI: You mentioned some name of an Investigating Officer, was it the same Investigating Officer in 1993 who looked into these attacks?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: We got a new Policeman to whom we then reported.

ADV SANDI: Do you recall his name?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: No, I do not know the new one.  I only know Mr Carolus.

ADV SANDI: You mentioned two names, I think you said it was Yster and Hlaheta who were shot.  Where were they shot?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Yster and Hlaheta were shot inside Hlaheta's house.

ADV SANDI: What that at night, during the day?  Are you able to say?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: It could have been about seven o'clock, after I had left them.  After they had gone inside the house, they were shot inside.  It was not late, it was not too late, it was about eightish, seven or eight at night.

ADV SANDI: Was there any suspicion as to who could have shot them?

CHAIRPERSON: What is the use of that evidence if it is just a suspicion?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: No, we had no suspicions as to who may have been responsible.

ADV SANDI: The people who were shot at the house of the Elese family, did you know them?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: I know the mother whom I know for a long time.  The others I do not know very well.

ADV SANDI: I take it that you will not be able to say whether those people had anything to do with the attacks on members of the PAC, would you?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: I would not be able to.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Goso, any re-examination?

MS GOSO: Yes Mr Chairman, just two questions.  Do you know whether members of the PAC would support this application?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: I am certain that members of the PAC would support his application.

MS GOSO: .

ADV SANDI: Why do you say that?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Because they know him as a member and would like him to be released and be amongst them.

ADV SANDI: Is that the only reason for which you think they would support his application for amnesty?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: That is the only reason that I can think of.

DR TSOTSI: Apart from Mr Maduna, do you know any other members of the Task Force?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Yes, there are other Task Force members, though we do not know their real names.

DR TSOTSI: Do you know Victor Sam?  I think I am correct, that is the name isn't it?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: I know him.

DR TSOTSI: Was he a member of the PAC or of the ANC, do you know?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: PAC.

DR TSOTSI: PAC?  Do you know a man called Tinage?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Yes, I do.

DR TSOTSI: Is he a member of the ANC or PAC?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: He was a member of the PAC.

DR TSOTSI: Until when or what happened?

WILFRED SITYODAMA: Tinage was later arrested in Transkei where he is currently serving his service.  Victor Sam is still a member and has just recently renewed his membership, two months back.

DR TSOTSI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much, you are excused from further attendance.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Fortuin?

MR FORTUIN: We call Mr Vuyisile Mketsu to testify on behalf of the victims.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you please stand.  Will you just spell your full names please?

VUYISILE MKETSU: (sworn states)

MR FORTUIN: Mr Mketsu, where do you live?

VUYISILE MKETSU: Crossroads, Unati area, number 1690.

MR FORTUIN: When did you join the PAC?

VUYISILE MKETSU: In 1990.

MR FORTUIN: Was there a Branch in 1990 in Crossroads?

VUYISILE MKETSU: No.  I was the man who tried to gather people around the PAC.

MR FORTUIN: So is it correct then if I assume that you were one of the founder members of the Branch of Crossroads, is that correct?

VUYISILE MKETSU: Yes, I was the one who was a founder member of the Crossroads Branch.

MR FORTUIN: What was your position which you held in 1990 with the establishment of the PAC Branch?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I had no position.  I simply gathered people for the PAC.  I used cards or I was the one who was recruiting members into the PAC.

MR FORTUIN: When the Branch was established, the PAC Branch in Crossroads, and the Executive of the PAC Branch was elected, what position were you given or elected in?

VUYISILE MKETSU: A Branch was elected in 1991, but because I was in possession of money as the original person who recruited members, I was made the Treasurer.

MR FORTUIN: When people wanted to join the Organisation, would you be the person that they would first speak to and pay the membership fees and fill in the forms as Treasurer?

VUYISILE MKETSU: Yes, they came to me.

MR FORTUIN: And how long did you hold this position as Treasurer of the PAC?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I was Treasurer from 1991, 1992 and 1993.

MR FORTUIN: Could you tell the Court who was Chairperson in 1991, 1992 and 1993?  Chairperson of the PAC Branch in Crossroads?

VUYISILE MKETSU: The Chairperson was Mr Sityodama and his vice was Mr Sdjale.

CHAIRPERSON: For my benefit please spell the names of the people that you have mentioned.

VUYISILE MKETSU: Sityda ...

MR FORTUIN: Was that the Chairperson of the Branch in 1991 and is that the same person that testified just before this?

INTERPRETER: Not both names were spelt.

VUYISILE MKETSU: Sityodama was the first Chairperson of the PAC and then Galine later.

MR FORTUIN: And the previous witness testified that he made sure of the fact that the applicant Mr Maduna, became a member in June 1991.  Do you know the applicant, Mr Maduna?

VUYISILE MKETSU: You see, the name Mr Maduna is very new to me.  I do not know who Maduna was as to how he looked even.  I do not know Maduna.

MR FORTUIN: Are you quite sure that Mr Maduna was not a member of the PAC in 1991, 1992 or even in 1993 while you were Treasurer of the Branch?

VUYISILE MKETSU: No, I never heard the name Maduna.  It is the first time that I get to know a person called Maduna.

MR FORTUIN: Mr Mketsu, the previous person also testified that the PAC has got a data base.  Can you explain to the Commission how the collection, or what the data base is as you understand it and what happens to the data base or the numbers in terms of membership and monies and so on?