Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-22

CHAIRPERSON: Morning everybody.  Mr Burger I remind you you're still under your former oath and when we adjourned yesterday Mr Kahanovitz was putting questions.  Mr Kahanovitz.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: (s.u.o.)

MR KAHANOVITZ: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR KAHANOVITZ: (Cont)
	Mr Burger, yesterday we were looking at the diary of Wouter Basson.  Can we carry on looking at that diary at page 29, the entry for 27 July?  You will see once again there are a number of entries on this page concerning South West Africa.  There's an entry about "Gemarteldes", people who have been tortured, "Vergaderings bywoon", attend meetings and about recruiting people who want to take on tasks out of revenge, you see the Afrikaans:  "Recruit members to do revenge tasks"?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I see.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Are you aware of some plan to recruit people who'd been tortured by SWAPO, to become unaware members of the CCB?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You're not.  Alright.  In the middle of the page after, you'll see those six notations about observing the routine of the person, so on and so forth, there's an entry that says the following
"Girls like Bessenger, close to Tjongarero, may fall two weeks after Hamutenya."
Now in CCB language, I'm assuming, well you tell us, what do you think the word "val" means there, fall?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Eliminate.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Alright.  Now Calla Botha tells us in his statement at bundle B page 9, I'll just read you two sentences from that.  He says
"Hamutenya was a project of Burger's"
and he carries on to say:  
"Hamutenya was a well-placed project but had to be cancelled because of a wrong identification."
Now do you admit that Hamutenya was your project?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So is Mr Botha not telling the truth?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes..

MR KAHANOVITZ: Was Hamutenya a CCB project?

MR BERGER: I don't know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You've got no idea.  He also says that you recruited a local dancer to go to South West Africa to gather information, is that true?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That's true.

MR KAHANOVITZ: That's true.  Alright.  He also says that you went there and I also have a further statement from Slang van Zyl which I'll hand in if necessary, which he gave to the Namibian police, who were investigating Lubowski's assassination in which he says that you and Maree visited South West Africa regularly.  Do you dispute that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No, I do not agree.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So both Mr Botha and Mr van Zyl say that you visited South West Africa.  You're however sticking to your story that you only spent part of a day there.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: As I said before, I went in in the morning and I left in the afternoon on my own.

MR MARTINI: Chairperson, could we at least have sight of the statement some time?  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Kahanovitz, could you arrange for that, that that last statement that you referred to.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'll give it to Mr Martini at the tea break.  Now Tjongarero, was he a project?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Not as far as I know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Once again from, I think its in Mr Botha's statement, yes, he says again at B(9):  "Ferdi" referring to Ferdi Barnard, "was sent to South West Africa by Louis" which is Lafras Luitingh's code name, "to gather information about Tjongarero's movements".  Do you have any knowledge of that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: None.  Chairman, I think these questions come from Article 29 statements.  I have no knowledge of those and I do not talk about external projects and these persons' names are linked to SWAPO and the then South West Africa.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Well, there is considerable evidence also from a former operative by the name of Pieter Botes, do you know who he is?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you heard Mr Verster mentioning his name.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, I saw him for the first time at the Harms Commission and I spoke to him.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Well, I'll just draw it to your attention that Mr Botes has confirmed that there were projects involving Bessenger, Hamutenya, Tjongarero.  I assume you don't want to answer that.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I deny it and I will not answer any questions on that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Kahanovitz, could you just refresh my memory, who was Mr Botes?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Botes was a member I think of - he wasn't in Region 6, I think he was in Region 2, but he was used in the Namibian campaign, but Mr Verster or Gen Webb mentioned that he'd been dismissed from the CCB and that's where his name came up in the evidence here.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright, if you could please turn to page 30, the 1st of August.  Now the entry there reads
"Bert must chase Grosskopff and have his supporters attacked"
and then there's a dash:
"G Evans"
Now if we read that entry together with your amnesty application and your evidence which you gave in chief, your evidence has been that one of the reasons for targeting Gavin Evans was the CCB's belief that he was in some or other way involved with Grosskopff, is that correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It's correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: That's right.  Alright.  And Bert, we know is a reference to you, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So this entry appears to corroborate what you say in your statement, namely that you had been tasked to make preparations for the elimination of Gavin Evans.  Is that correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Correct, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And if we can just skip, jump to page 33, that is the entry for the 24th of August, you'll see at 1 o'clock, well first you'll see at the top of the page it says
"keep day open for in-house Region 6."
You with me?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And then at 1 o'clock it says
"N.B.  Jack will talk tomorrow with Chairman about Evans."

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I see that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So that Jack we know is Joe Verster, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And that is an entry that suggests that a meeting has been set up for the following day for Verster to talk to the Chairman about Evans.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It seems like it, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But do you have a recollection of discussions along this nature having taken place round about the 1st of August?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I cannot remember the dates but it could be true.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Do you have any reason to dispute the dates as they appear in Mr Basson's contemporaneous diary?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You'll agree with me it's more than likely that these dates are accurate in the sense that Mr Basson made them at that time and his diary was seized before he would have had the opportunity to alter anything on it?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It's true.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.

CHAIRPERSON: There seems to be very little in the way of alterations, or certainly there's none on this page.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes.  So you wouldn't be in a position to dispute that these discussions were taking place round about the 1st of August 1989?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.  You see, if I understand your evidence-in-chief correctly, you mentioned that Mr van Zyl's operatives were brought up from the Western Cape and they were going to attempt to stab Gavin Evans, to make it look like it had been a robbery, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now, it seems to me, just let me give you also a date, that is on Mr van Zyl's version, that occurs round about March/April 1989.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: March.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, that's where we started with Evans and Maree.