Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-15

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I won't be long in my address, sir, but I'll only touch on a few aspects, Mr Chairman.  Some have been covered in the judgment.  Mr Chairman, the only aspect I will deal with is the question of disclosure extensively, but I want just for the purpose of the completeness of this matter.  Mr Chairman, there's no doubt that Phila Dolo was a member of APLA, and as such a member of PAC, and that at Gauteng he was not familiar with this area.  He's originally from the Eastern Cape.  He only came to Gauteng only for a specific mission and that mission was on behalf of his organisation, that is APLA, and this incident was part of his action as a member of APLA.
	Mr Chairman, as I indicated, I don't want to waste time.  The court judgment also - normally in cases of this nature, Mr Chairman, earlier you find people denying even if they were members of political organisation, let alone of being APLA.  I know that they deny they are APLA.  Of course, one knows that everybody wants to get away with whatever he's charged of, but also it's also clear in the judgment, also even the Judge accepted that his actions in particular, because the others were acquitted, that is Peter and Godfrey, that his action with regard to this incident were political.  And also it transpired during the mitigation of sentence when the Deputy Secretary of PAC then, Carter Sliga, came and gave evidence and he also confirmed that they were members of APLA, though also the Judge said that it's clear though they were denying it.  Then it covers now that portion that they belong to a recognised political organisation, because also the court accepted that, and also the political motive it was also accepted by the court.
	Now, Mr Chairman, the point which is left is that whether the applicant has made full disclosure before this Committee.  Mr Chairman, it is my submission that the applicant has made full disclosure regarding his participation in these incidents.  The Diepkloof attack and the incident regarding surrounding his arrest what he did, Mr Chairman.  He forthrightly told the Committee what actually took place, even went to the extent of telling the Committee about even that there were delays, which even the Committee would not have been aware that he was not going to participate initially, would not have been aware of that.  But the way he put it, he wanted the Committee to have a fuller picture of what was happening.  He took the Committee to his confidence and told the Committee what actually took place.  And he did not lie to say that somebody else did the shooting.  He told the Committee that, "I was in the assault group.  I'm the person who did the shooting, and I was supposed to do the shooting".  
	And as such, Mr Chairman - and also he went further even before his arrest that, "I was the person who was going to initiate the person because I was going to avoid arrest.  That was the reason, I wanted to get away.  I was going to shoot the police, but unfortunately my firearm jammed".  So, he does not deny or hide any role he played in this matter, regarding the whole issue of Diepkloof and surrounding his arrest.
	And also, Mr Chairman, even his part in the Yeoville incident, that he supplied the weapons that were going to be used in the Yeoville Police Station attack.  Though I think, Mr Chairman, if I'm correct in reading the judgment, also that he was not, I don't think he was charged for that offence initially.  He was only convicted of possession of arms which were found in the house.  But he went further to tell the Committee that, "I was also involved in that incident, because I'm the person who supplied and who gave the order that they can go and carry out the operation".  And, Mr Chairman, as I indicated that I don't want to waste the time of this Committee regarding this part, suffice to say that I submit that the applicant have complied with the requirements of Section 20(1) and (3) and it is quite clear that he was acting on behalf of APLA, a publicly known political organisation and the liberation movement, which was engaged in the political struggle against the State at that time.  And also, Mr Chairman, that the applicant did not act for personal gain or out of personal malice or ill-will or spite directed against the deceased and the victims.  It is quite clear that he had no personal knowledge of these people and that he merely carried out the instructions, and he acted within the course and scope of his activities as a member of APLA and also as a commander of APLA.
	And on that basis, Mr Chairman, we are submitting and requesting that this Committee grant the amnesty to Phila Dolo as he applied for it.  Unless the Committee wants me to address on any point, thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.  You're asking for amnesty in respect of Diepkloof and the Yeoville incidence?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Diepkloof, Mr Chairman, and also the attempted murder on the ...(inaudible)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, I'll repeat it.  Mr Chairman, in respect of Diepkloof, also the possession of arms and ammunition as he was convicted.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry, can you refer to page 22 of the record.  They list a number of counts.  Do you want to just take us through that or refer to your application with reference to those incidents.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, let me thank you for the assistance.  Mr Chairman, as I indicated that we would like to apply for the amnesty to be granted for the incident which was in terms of the case, count one which was the murder of the Mabaso.  That is the incident at Diepkloof.  And also, Mr Chairman, the attempted murder of the victim Mr Nelushi who was also here, and also, Mr Chairman ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Is that count two, Mr Mbandazayo, the attempted murder?

MR MBANDAZAYO: The attempted murder of Mr Nelushi which is count two, this is there.  Also, Mr Chairman, the count three which was the contravention of Section 32, which is unlawful possession of machine guns which was AK, R4.  And also count four, Mr Chairman, which was also a contravention, possession of ammunition intended to be fired from a machine gun, machine rifle or any similar ornament which is the ammunition which was going to be used, and AK and R4.

CHAIRPERSON: At Diepkloof?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Diepkloof, Mr Chairman.

MR LAX: If I could assist you, Mr Mbandazayo.  If you look at page 38, on page 2 of the judgment you will see that the Judge describes these counts in quite a lot of detail.  He goes through all the counts quite carefully.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Ja.

MR LAX: And if you look at page 23, you'll see what Mr Dolo was actually convicted of, which of those counts specifically.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Or 22, if you read the sentence.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR LAX: Correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.

MR LAX: Are those the matters for which your client is applying?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, the one which he was convicted of, Mr Chairman.  Which also include the attempted murder, which was count eight (8), Mr Chairman, on the policemen who went to arrest him on the day of his arrest, where they were the shooting ensued.

CHAIRPERSON: Just to clarify it.  Your client was not convicted in respect of the Yeoville incident, but you have included it in your application?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.  He was not convicted, but we applied for amnesty because he was definitely - though there was no evidence in court of his involvement, he was definitely involved in some way because he gave an order and he also supplied to them with the ammunition.  So that was the reason we put it.