Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-26

UNKNOWN: Well, yes, I had a strong suspicion that they were going to be there.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Was your information that they were there every night?
W/

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: Mr Mpshe, any questions?

JUDGE WILSON: Isn't this the case when Captain Hechter came back he said, "anybody who was so 
lucky, who had so much luck on their side, he'd rather leave alone"?
W/

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

JUDGE WILSON: The house had been blown down and they hadn't been hurt?
W/

UNKNOWN: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Just to refresh my memory, how was the house demolished, how was it blown down?
W/

UNKNOWN: Captain Hechter and I one night went to the house, Captain Hechter carried the 
self-constructed bomb, I knocked out the window with an AK47 and Captain Hechter threw the bomb into 
the house, we turned around and ran away, Mr Chair.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.

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MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That will be all Mr Chairman.  That will then call for an adjournment to the following day, 
Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Is there no other matter that we can dispose of?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Counsel are aware of the fact that because this venue is required for a meeting by the 
Council we are expected to vacate shortly and that is why we can't proceed for the rest of this afternoon.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, Mr Chairperson, we are aware of that, we thought that this matter would take a 
little bit longer than it did, otherwise we might have been able to arrange for something else.  Yes, but in 
any event, any of the other matters would have had to stand over, and if they had to stand over there would 
be General van der Merwe's evidence inbetween which we thought would not be appropriate.

UNKNOWN: Yes, it would be inconvenient.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Can we resume again at 9.00 tomorrow morning.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, thank you Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: Mr Mpshe, will you see to it that everybody that is involved will be available and ready to 
proceed at 9.00am.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That will be done, Mr Chairman.

UNKNOWN: As I understand it, we will begin with Mr Van der Merwe, is it?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman it will be General van der Merwe and thereafter KwaNdebele Nine and 
thereafter Pepco Three.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Mpshe have you managed to receive any information about the identity of the 
KwaNdebele Nine?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman I do not have it at hand but I had 
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a discussion this morning with a Dr Pretorius together with Mrs Antionette De Jager and they said to me 
they could not do anything in this regard, but they will give me whatever they have done so far and I am of 
the mind that they will be able to give me information tomorrow to table before the Committee.  They said 
they will also unsuccessful but they will give whatever they have done.

UNKNOWN: Mr Mpshe, while you are about it, Annexure 8 to the post mortem report ...(intervention)

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes, Mr Chairman, as I indicated yesterday that I got the post mortem attached to the 
report from the Investigative Unit.

UNKNOWN: That's right.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: But it is not difficult for me to obtain that Annexure A, because the inquest was held at 
Garankua, which is about 25 km from here, I have arranged for it to be brought.

UNKNOWN: It's possible that it may very well be in the possession of the Attorney General's office.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: They may also be having that, Mr Chairman, I can obtain it.

UNKNOWN: I think that if you just make a telephonic enquiry and find out, it might save some time.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I will do that.

ADV DE JAGER: It might have been handed in at the De Kok trial.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes, I think the Attorney General must be having that report of the inquest, but if they 
don't it is available at the Magistrate's Offices.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, Mr Chairman, I was also told this 
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morning that it was part of the evidence in the De Kok trial, so it is ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Evidence by - Mamasela?

ADV DU PLESSIS: Well, part of the State's evidence in the De Kok trial.  So it might be part of the Court 
record of that hearing.

UNKNOWN: Yes, very well. If there is nothing that can usefully occupy us, we will adjourn and we 
will resume at 9.00 o'clock tomorrow morning. Thank you.