Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-29

LESTER DUMAKUDE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger.

MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson.

MR BERGER: Mr Dumakude, you have before you a bundle of documents marked A1, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: Now, the document from pages 93 to 96 of that bundle, do you confirm that that is your application for amnesty?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes.

MR BERGER: In addition to the application you have made a statement, which has been handed in as Exhibit B1, do you confirm that that is your statement?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BERGER: Now it's correct that you've given evidence at another hearing of the Amnesty Committee, but I'm going to just ask you some questions very briefly about your background.  For starters, as is contained in Exhibit B2, your MK names included Chris and Tommy Masinga, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: You were born on the 24th of October 1952 in Sophiatown, Johannesburg?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: After your family was moved from Sophiatown, you went to live with your grandparents in Diepkloof, Soweto, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: You left school whilst you were completing Standard 8 and although you wanted to go to a Technikon to complete your education, you were unable to do so and you had to begin to seek work, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: What were you doing at the time of the uprising on June 16 1976?  Where were you?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: I was working for a newspaper company.

MR BERGER: I'm going to ask you Mr Dumakude to please speak - you don't have to worry the microphone will pick you up.

LESTER DUMAKUDE: I was working for a newspaper company, as an inserter.

MR BERGER: As a result of the impression on you of the uprising on June 16 and the events which followed, you left the country towards the end of 1977 and you went to Swaziland, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: From Swaziland you were sent for training to Angola.

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: You underwent further training.  You eventually were trained in the Soviet Union and after your return from the Soviet Union, you were appointed as an instructor in the camps, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: You were initially an instructor at Klakulama camp and then you were transferred to Fundafunda, Kashito, is that right?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BERGER: Now, in 1981 you joined Special Operations, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: That's correct.

MR BERGER: What were your early responsibilities in Special Operations, from the time that you joined?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: When I first joined the Special Operations unit, my responsibilities were to infiltrate the trained cadres and to help them to find accommodation and also to give them materials which they will need for their various operations and also to recruit people and also to recruit others to help us with accommodation.

MR BERGER: Initially you were based in Swaziland, is that right?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes.

MR BERGER: At that stage when you were infiltrating cadres into the country for the purposes of carrying out operations, did you have any knowledge as to precisely what operations they were being sent in to carry out?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: No, I was not involved in the planning, I was only involved in helping them to cross the borders.

MR BERGER: Now, after the signing of the Nkomati Accord, which was in 1984, you then left Swaziland?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, I left Swaziland because I was arrested.

MR BERGER: You were deported to Tanzania and thereafter you received instructions to open up a front in Botswana, is that right?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Now, can you just describe briefly for the Committee what your duties then were from Botswana, from the moment that you opened up that front?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: It was not different from the one that I was doing in Swaziland.  I would arrange, I would recruit, arrange accommodation and provide material when necessary.  What I was doing in Botswana, was not that different from my responsibilities in Swaziland.

MR BERGER: Your responsibilities only changed then in July/August 1987, when you were promoted to Commander of Special Operations?  You took the place of comrade Rashid, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Now, do you recall when it was the first time that you met either comrade Gordon Webster or comrade Robert?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: I cannot remember exactly, but I think it was early in 1985 when I met with comrade Gordon Webster.

MR BERGER: And was it after meeting comrade Gordon, that you met comrade Robert?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.  I first got to know comrade Robert through comrade Webster.  I knew comrade Robert through comrade Webster.

MR BERGER: When you met both of them, the one, then the other, you were already in charge of the Sub-Command of Special Operations in Botswana?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.

LESTER DUMAKUDE: You worked with Mr Pule, who gave evidence this morning and you say in your statement that his MK names were Vusi, Oupa and also T Man, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: In brief, I know it's in your statement but if you could just briefly outline for the Committee, what was the extent of your interaction and how did you operate with the, if you can call it the Webster/McBride unit, or comrade Gordon, comrade Robert.  How was it that you operated with them?  What was the nature of your interaction?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: My interaction with Gordon Webster's unit, I would get instructions from my senior, comrade Ismail Rashid.  I would do everything per instruction.  I would be told as to what to do for them, where to assist only.

MR BERGER: And in what way would you assist them?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: When Webster came, we were supposed to facilitate with the infiltration.  When he was inside the country and we had to get out of the country, we had to arrange his meeting with Rashid.  There was supposed to be material that would be given to him by us when necessary, if it was necessary for the training of the unit, we would be told to train them in whatever.

MR BERGER: What was the nature of the training?  Was it political, was it military, was it both, your training of them?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: It was both, political and military.

MR BERGER: From the political point of view, I take it that you trained them in the policies of the ANC?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And from a military point of view, what was the nature of the training?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: We would train them, facilitate them for a deployment and the material or equipment that they would use.  If a person was going to use a firearm, that particular person would be trained in the operation of the firearm.  Even with the grenade it would be the same.  If a person was to use car bombs, he would get that kind of training.

MR BERGER: When you talk about a person, we're talking now specifically about comrade Gordon and comrade Robert, is that correct?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: Yes, that is correct, because I am here because of that case.

MR BERGER: And this provision of materials, so that they could come back into the country and carry out operations, did this happen on one occasion when you were present, or on more than one occasion?

LESTER DUMAKUDE: The trips were more than one, therefore it was more than one occasion.