Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... much for giving us, first, that background to the killing of Phineas Sibiya and others in Mpophomeni township, and also for telling us about what happened to you in 1990.  You said that the strike at Sarmcol had really taken over and affected your whole life, and we know that that is true for those who have followed this - what can only be described as an epic over the last 10 or 11 years;  that people battled in the courts again and again and again to get their jobs back, and while they were fighting that battle in the courts they were also fighting a battle back in their homes, trying to protect their homes from people who were attacking them and intimidating them and killing them.   As my colleague, Dr Magwaza, has said, our job is to make recommendations to the Government.  We as a Commission are not able to promise or give you anything at this stage, but we will make recommendations to the Government as to how we think people like yourself should be assisted.

MR LYSTER: So thank you again very much for coming in today.

WITNESS:   I also thank you.

MR LYSTER: We have asked Mrs Ngobani also to come up and sit on the stage.  She originally gave a statement to the Truth Commission some weeks ago, and there was a little confusion as to whether or not she would be giving evidence.  She was initially unsure as to whether she wanted to give evidence, but she had indicated today that she does want to give evidence, and we thought it would be appropriate that she sits on the stage with Mr Sibiya.  Mr Sibiya was the survivor of the infamous massacre in 1986 at Mpophomeni, and Mrs Ngobani lost her husband, Simon Ngobani, in that massacre.  Mr Sibiya, before you give your evidence can I ask you to stand up to take the oath please.

M SIBIYA: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: I am going to ask my colleague Mr Lax to assist you today with your evidence.  When we get to Mrs Ngobani she will be sworn in as well and Mr Lax will assist her.

MR LAX: Thank you, chairperson.  Greetings to you, Mr Sibiya and Mrs Ngobani.  Mr Sibiya, can I just confirm - and just for the record, your correct surname is Sibiya, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR LAX: I am asking this question because there was a small error on the summary of your statement and the name is shown as Mngathi, but that's clearly wrong.

WITNESS:   What's written on my statement?

MR LAX: On the summary of your statement your name was incorrectly shown Mngathi, and it is in fact Sibiya, and I am just confirming that for the record.

WITNESS:   I am not Mngathi, I am Sibiya. Yes.  Mr Sibiya, is it correct that you are 37 years old?   ---   Yes, when this happened I was 37 years old.

MR LAX: So you're in fact some nine years older than that at the moment.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: As Mr Lyster has said this story relates to your abduction, and in your instance attempted killing, and the killing of your three comrades on 5 December 1986.

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR LAX: Before we start with that story tell us a little bit about yourself and your family.

WITNESS:   Yes.  I am a resident of Mpophomeni.  My father had three wives.  My mother is the youngest wife.  My mother had eight kids and others are now dead.  And I got married and now I have eight kids as well and I am left with six kids.  I am a resident at Mpophomeni.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)   ----   Yes, she is still alive, even though she is not well.  Yes, she is still alive even though she is not so well.

MR LAX: Let us move to the difficult story that you have to tell us about what happened on that night, and if you could perhaps start - as I understand the story you were at home and Simon Ngobani, Phineas Sibiya, who was your brother, and Florence Mngathi arrived at your house.  Will you tell us what happened from there please.

WITNESS:   I wasn't at home, and I heard that Inkatha was going to come.  And on Friday, on a particular Friday, Inkatha has arrived.  And a friend of mine told me, and we confirmed that Inkatha has arrived.  I went to the hall, community hall, and then I went back home.  When I arrived home I was driving a car and I saw them in the car.  And I went to them and I told them that, "you heard that Inkatha has

MR LAX: /"arrived?"

MR LAX: arrived?"  So they said, "Yes, we heard."  And after a while we saw eight guys coming and they were armed.  And when they came they came direct to the car and told us to come out from the car.  And we said, "Why?" and they said to us what are we doing.  So they said to us, "Let's go with them to the hall."  And then they took me by force because I didn't want to go with them.  So they said, "Why don't you want to come?"  I said, "No, I don't want to come," because - I wasn't inside the car, so one of them stabbed me at my shoulder.  And we went to the hall.  They put us in a small room.

MR LAX: There was a rally going on at that hall, is that correct?  An Inkatha rally was taking place at the Mpophomeni Hall?

WITNESS:   I won't be that much sure whether it was an Inkatha rally or not, but Inkatha people were full in that hall.

MR LAX: Would you carry on please.  So you were placed in a small room.

WITNESS:   (Inaudible) ... she wasn't locked with us.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... interpretation unfortunately, so if you could just say - you were placed in this room, and carry on from there.

WITNESS:   The lady wasn't locked with us, she was locked in another room.  I don't know, because we were locked in a small room except for the lady.  The lady was locked in another room.  After that they hit us, they kicked us, they asked us which organisation we belong to.  And then they said to us, "You see, you said Inkatha people won't come here.  Now we are here," and they continued kicking us, and they asked us why can't we join Inkatha.  And we said, "We don't know anything about Inkatha.  We don't want to belong to Inkatha, but our

MR LAX: /"councillors,

MR LAX: councillors, our township councillors belong to Inkatha."  And then the ZP came and pointed guns at us, and one policeman came and said, "No, you mustn't do this," and then afterwards they listened to this guy.  And then they continued asking us, "Why are you on strike at Sarmcol?"  And we said, "No, it wasn't just us who made people to boycott.  We all agreed on a strike."  And then this man left and then the Zulu Police continued to kick us, hitting us, and then they took us to the doctor.  They said they were taking us to the doctor.  And the car was parked outside the hall, and Mr Ngobani went out.  He started running and they shot.  I am not quite sure whether he was shot or not, but they brought him back.  And they said we must get inside the car, and we got inside the car on the back seat and the lady got inside the front seat.  And one police - one ZP police was on my left-hand side, and on my right-hand side was another Zulu Police.  And in front of us there was another car, and they had a 25 litre of petrol, half of 25 litres.  It wasn't full.  And they said they were taking us to the doctors, but the car didn't go to the doctor's place.  I tried to push the police on my right-hand side so that I could get away, and the police started hitting me and he said to me I must talk over the over and tell the others that I am not coming (sic).

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... there full of other people.  Whose car was that?

WITNESS:   It was Mr Thusi's car.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... car.

WITNESS:   Yes, he was driving and other people, Inkatha people, were also in his car.

MR LAX: The car that you were in was the car that belonged to Mr Philip Dladla, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was Mr Philip Dladla's car, but it was used by my younger brother.

MR LAX: Who drove that car?

WITNESS:   Another policeman, ZP police, was driving that one when they said they were taking us to the doctors.