Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-13

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Desai, is there anything else you wish to add?

AMINA DESAI: I would say that - that I think they were so horrible and so cruel and the interrogators, because they just - but on the whole, I must say, when I hear of what has been done to - what was done and what is still being done to other women, then I think they treated me on the whole, very well.  Even my interrogators, they kept me there for 52
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hours, on and off, I mean with slight interruptions, on the whole, but I got accustomed. I had a very sick husband for a very long time. I looked after him.  I got accustomed to going without sleep for many hours.  So the fact, the only thing was that in the Pretoria prison, the Central Prison where they took me first, I had never believed that the floor could heave with insects, and that was what I found in my cell.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us how many years you were in prison for?

AMINA DESAI: Pardon?

CHAIRPERSON: How long were you in prison for?

AMINA DESAI: I can't hear?

CHAIRPERSON: How long were you in prison?

AMINA DESAI: Was I in ...?

CHAIRPERSON: In prison. How long were you in prison?

AMINA DESAI: I was in prison for five years. I didn't have a day off.

CHAIRPERSON: After your release, I understand you were placed under a banning order.

AMINA DESAI: Yes, I was under house arrest for five years and that period was very hard for me because my people really couldn't understand, most of them couldn't understand that I was under house arrest and that I was not aloof from them, but that I was forced to be aloof from them.  I couldn't even have my brother to come and see me. I had to get special permission to come to hospital.  But you live with it and you survive.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Desai, I want to go back a little in time. In your statement you tell us that your husband was a founder member of the Transvaal Indian Congress.
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AMINA DESAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You shared his views but your leanings were strongly towards passive resistance.

AMINA DESAI: Yes, we were - I was, have been a pacifist all my life. I have also of course been very - in the old days we used to call it feminism.  I believed in that, absolutely.

CHAIRPERSON: Earlier on you expressed your shock at being charged - well, first of all even being arrested at the time of Amemol's arrest and Essop's arrest and I think it was Mr Essack and Endreson Moodley who you were charged with.  One of the things you were charged with was under the Communist Act.

AMINA DESAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were accused of being a Communist.

AMINA DESAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us something about that?

AMINA DESAI: Well, I think during the time that they were interrogating me, they asked me why I had sent my son to a military college. I told them that because he had been in trouble here with the police and he had actually been locked up for a weekend because as a child he had sprayed something on the school walls at the time when they wanted to close down our school. They had picked him up and taken him - and we had then sent our son to Lawrence College in Raipindi, which had been originally a college where the English officers sent their children. This was the college that accepted him.  But for - because he was only a Std 9 pupil when he left for India.  After that of course, he found his way to Sweden and studied there.  But now they wanted to know why did I sent him. So I told them it was just
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incidental that they happened to have some training, it was just part of the syllabus and the curriculum of the old - the school where the officers used to send their children, the British officers sent their children. It was part of the curriculum of the school.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Desai, at the time of Mr Timor's arrest and Mr Essop's arrest of course, the police found - what is referred to as Communist literature in the car, in the boot of the car and that was your car, of course.  I also understand books were found in your house. Now were you aware of these things happening in your house?

AMINA DESAI: Well, I had so many books and I was very busy with my work, and Timor used to come there because he used to take - do certain work for me and had to take away my orders and go post it, because I am an agent, a manufacturer's agent.  I myself didn't drive and I used to give him the car and tell him go and post my orders.  Of course, when he had schoolwork to do, because he used to sit, because I was alone in the house. He used to sit there and do his schoolwork, and he was also studying. So he used to sit at my house because it was quiet, because he stayed, lived quite near there, but his parents had a very small flat, so there were children there and other people there and I don't think he really had any chance to sit and study there. He used to sit and study in my house.   He had some books there, but of course he used to leave his briefcase there and his books there and I never bothered to go through his cases and his books.

CHAIRPERSON: When did you find out that he had actually died?

AMINA DESAI: I only found out that he had died the day that KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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I was brought to court.  My lawyer told me when I told - I told the lawyer you know, they have got me a - pinned me down on this and they kept me there all these months, but Timor I am sure can explain it all away.  So he told me but don't you know that Timor is dead.

CHAIRPERSON: So in all that time ...

AMINA DESAI: All that time I never knew, because they had two very elderly wardresses, not the normal wardresses of whom they possibly have for the other prisoners, who used to come and bring my food and take me for the shower. I never had - nobody ever spoke to me about anything.  I never knew about it.

CHAIRPERSON: Now in the trial that took place, a list of names was put forward, it was found in Mr Timor's possession again.  I understand your name was also part of that list. Were you aware that you were ...

AMINA DESAI: I think I was confused with another A Desai. I am quite certain that on that list there must have been - because I know he had a young cousin who was also - her name was Aysha, and I know that she may - I don't know whether she did, but I know she was in a typing school.  Whether she may have - because I know that I never typed anything for him on my typewriter, that I know for a fact.  My typewriter was there on the desk. He had access to my house, because he often had my car and when I used to go away sometimes, if I had to go to a conference or somewhere, because I am an agent, I had to go sometimes to these business conferences, then I would leave him ... (Change-over to "B" side".

CHAIRPERSON: ... Mr Brown as the security police were involved in your interrogation, is that right?

AMINA DESAI: Yes.
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CHAIRPERSON: Then again,  you mention that at the time of your arrest you were living by yourself. Your husband had passed away.

AMINA DESAI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And all your children - you have three children, is that right?

AMINA DESAI: I had four children but they were all overseas then.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Mrs Desai, I just have one last question. You mentioned that at the time of your release and your banning order, that the community looked upon you and may have thought that you were aloof. How, in that period that we are talking about, from the time of your arrest and subsequent history, what was the support that you gained from your community?