Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-05-25

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: Yes, we were charged for attempted murder, and we were charged for being in possession of weapons unlawfully. At some stage, we were forced to make some statements. The example, myself. I think we made the statement after 10 days because I told them that I couldn't - I was not in a position to make a statement without seeing my legal representative, but because of the pain on this arm, I was forced - we were forced to make a statement. The other reason is that we were severely beaten up and even in court some of the statements as our case was held at the Regional Court, we were forced to tell lies. And the people that we mentioned in court, those people that we said we got the arms from, we said we got the firearms, the weapons from Zukise Mabethu and today I want to tell this Commission the truth that Zukise Mabethu at the time of our arrest was in Uganda attending a training of Umkhonto weSizwe there. And the second one was Robert Desi and at the time he was not present.
	The reason for us to tell lies. First of all our Commander Sotyifa is the one who gave us the weapons. If we told the truth that time, it would happen that each and every command structure of MK in Border region including the other leaders of African National Congress would be arrested because we did not know the other people who were also involved with our commander. That is why we decided to mention the names of the people who were in the exile to try and protect Sotyifa. And we wanted to give them the wrong directions so that we could get a relief and we would let the people look for the people who were not around.
	We were taken to different camps, sometimes we would be tortured on the farms. Sometimes they would open the windows and instruct us to jump and run away - jump from the window. But we refused to do that. We were divided. I was left up at Mdantsane and others were at Tamaga Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, for how long were you detained before you were released?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: The others appeared about two times in court before I could appear. I think the others spent a week. I think I spent something like three weeks. They said I was arrested or detained under Section 26 of Internal Security Act of Ciskei at the time.

MR VABAZA: Do you want to add anything to what you have already told the Committee?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: What I would like to add before concluding. I would like this Committee at this hearing to know very well that all we did at the time refers about the political climate of the time as I have already given a picture, political picture of those days. It's not that we used to hate him or we were hating him, Mxolise Ngqolozana, but the situation prevailed at the time forced us to take those steps. And we are so thankful that today he is still alive. As much as we say that our actions were politically motivated, we know that we cannot say we are sorry. We are only sorry towards the Amnesty Committee that because of the political climate at that time, the lives of the people were in danger. We know that everything that was happening at the time was a result of the policies of Bantustan and the policies of apartheid regime. And all those things were caused by Bisho Massacre which did not even end there. And after that we, after the Bisho Massacre we couldn't sleep at our homes before we are making a general request to show that we are opening up our hands, that we are stretching our arms to all the people who were affected by the situation.
	And I also request that during the process of considering whether we will get this amnesty applications or not, but it should be known that all these things happened, they happened because of political climate. It was not just criminal actions, they were not criminal actions. Thank you.

MR VABAZA: What has happened to your case in the Regional Court? Do you know?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: It was postponed. It was postponed pending on the decision that it be taken by the Amnesty Committee.

MR VABAZA: Fine. The policeman, Mxolise Ngqolazana, was he stationed at Tembeni Location or station somewhere? Do you know?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: This policeman was stationed at Mdantsane, but he would go to the village at Tembeni, that is, and work there and go there when he was not on duty. And he would disperse the meetings, not because he was on duty, but he was using his powers as a policeman, but a policeman that was not on duty. He was actually stationed at Mdantsane and his home was at Tembeni.

MR VABAZA: You also told the Committee that you sustained some injuries. Were you seen by a doctor as a result of the injuries you had sustained?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vabaza, I don't think that is really relevant to the application.

MR VABAZA: Oh. Thank you, Mr Chairperson, but I thought in view of the statements they were forced to make ... (indistinct). You are thus requesting the Committee to grant you amnesty because of the reasons you have already tabulated to it.

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: The reason for asking amnesty is because at the time the police were the enemy. More especially the police who were associated with Gozo's government. But even today the people who had assaulted it as the African National Congress, we have forgiven them. That is why we are asking for amnesty so that we could unite with them and stay in peace in our country.

MR VABAZA: Tell me, were you in a position to refuse the order from the Commander of the MK structure? Could you refuse to obey or to carry out what you were told to do?

MTHETHELI CROSBY KOLELA: That was impossible. You would be regarded as a person who was defying the orders of the organisation. If the Commander instructs you to do something you must not question, but you had to do it. There was a term that was used that says you comply and complain later.

MR VABAZA: You also told the Committee that at Zelini Police Station you were able to phone the African National Congress to advise them of your arrest ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vabaza, what relevance is all this evidence?

MR VABAZA: Well, Mr Chair, I thought it would also help to fortify their version. That in fact it was to the instructions of the ANC. That is why that when they got a chance to, at Zelini Police Station, they had to ... (indistinct) the structure that had ordered them. I thought that will indeed, but if the Committee feels it is irrelevant I will drop the question.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm just trying to follow the relevance of it, because their evidence is that they acted in terms of an instruction. Whether they were able to refuse or not is neither here nor there.

MR VABAZA: Thank you, Mr Chair. Do you have any other thing or are you through with your version. Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VABAZA

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson. I have got one or two questions to ask. Mr Kolela, the soldiers you were going to attack at the Frankfort Hotel, were they the only people who were attending, or who were drinking at that hotel at the time?

CHAIRPERSON: They don't know because they never found the soldiers.

MS MTANGA: Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: He doesn't know because he never found the soldiers.

MS MTANGA: Let me rephrase my question then. During the time you were doing a reconnaissance, were there other people besides the soldiers who were drinking at that hotel?