Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-05

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what sort of car did you purchase or who purchased it, Mr McBride?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: I purchased the car sir.

CHAIRPERSON: What sort of vehicle was it?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: A sedan.

CHAIRPERSON: Sedan?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: A blue Cortina.
"The car was then loaded with explosives, that is ten SZ6 charges.   One was left behind because it was going to be used in case there was retaliation for the operation.  It was going to be used for an additional response in an attack possibly a police station, which we had reconnoitred earlier.  As per instructions, detonators were added to all SZ6 charges, so as to give the explosion a greater impact.  In other words you would have simultaneous detonation of all charges.   If my memory serves me correct, it was Oupa who gave me the instruction to use detonators in each SZ6 charge so that all aspects of the explosion was simultaneous.
	Also as per instructions, I added shrapnel to the explosive charges.  Those I was able to get from for example cutting old burglar guards in my father's workshop and placing it amongst the shrapnel.   
	All these activities were in accordance with how I was instructed and taught on how to make a car bomb.  This is the only way I knew how to make a car bomb and the only way explained to me on how to do it."

MR DEHAL: Mr McBride, did you use any nails as shrapnel?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: No, I don't think so.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr McBride, whereabouts in the vehicle did you put these explosive devices?  Were they all together in a big pile in the boot, or were they distributed throughout the vehicle from front, back, in the engine space, wherever?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: No, they were placed in the boot, that is the way I was instructed.  They were placed in the boot and secured so that they don't move around, because you have detonators in each one of them.  If you hit a bump and they move, it would go up prematurely.

CHAIRPERSON: And you estimated, you mentioned earlier, 60 kilograms?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your estimate?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, yes, that is my estimate.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, you have said it was your first bomb, but where would 60 kilograms rate?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It is a small car bomb.  It is a small car bomb, other car bombs generally in the region of 200 kilograms.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ADV SIGODI: Mr McBride, you say you took these cut burglar guards and then you put them amongst the shrapnel and you go on to say that all these activities were in accordance with how "I was instructed and taught how to make a car bomb"?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, yes.

ADV SIGODI: Who taught you to put in burglar guards, was it part of the training, who taught you that?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct.

ADV SIGODI: Who taught you that?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: It was, I think it was Oupa at that stage, Oupa and at an earlier stage, Chris also had explained using shrapnel in explosive devices.  But if I can remember correctly, it wasn't specifically at that stage for a car bomb. At the time of being given instructions specifically for June the 14th car bomb, Chris was not around.  I last saw Chris when I dropped off Gordon Webster, he was arrested the day before the May 19th raid into Botswana.  I didn't see him again until here at this hearing.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, you can continue.

MR DEHAL: Mr McBride, you recall the person you refer to as Chris was one of the applicants in this matter?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct.

MR DEHAL: That when he testified, he talked about how he trained you in the use of shrapnel in the car bomb operations?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes, but my memory is that all three of the proceeding co-applicants all trained me in various aspects of explosives, including car bombs and including the use of shrapnel.

MR DEHAL: Chris in particular talked about aerosol, shrapnel, etc?  What he referred to there, was gas ...

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Canisters to give it an extra charge, if you wanted to make it bigger.

MR DEHAL: But you had no used any gas canisters?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: No, I did not.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.  Paragraph 9?
MR McBRIDE
	"When the explosive device in the car was ready, I then sought assistance of Matthew Lecordier and Greta Apelgren.  Greta was used in securing the exact spot that I required at the Why Not bar and Matthew served to give me cover.  Both Matthew and Greta were unaware that this was a car bomb operation as already mentioned.  We proceeded. 
	I am not sure who followed who and the exact sequence of events there from Factorama, but we went to West Street.  As this was during the state of emergency, I expected to have roadblocks in town.  As a result, I parked the car containing the bomb in the upper end of West Street, to enable me to do (this should be) reconnaissance further down, closer to the target.   Here I am referring to reconnaissance of possible roadblocks or anything that looked suspiciously like a trap."

MR DEHAL: Sorry Mr McBride, whilst you are there, you talk of the state of emergency, is it correct that the national state of emergency was then just declared, a day or two old?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: That is correct, it was declared on the 12th.

MR DEHAL: That is the day you entered the country?

ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE: Yes.

MR DEHAL: And this happened two days thereafter?