Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-22

MS MOODLEY: I think Mr Madlala has offered an explanation to this Commission which should be accepted that he was ill-informed and ill-advised at the time when he failed to speak the truth in his affidavit about the events that had occurred around this particular incident and that when he ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose?  In as much as he is literate, there is no evidence that he had at the time, he was in possession of our Act, that would have explained to him what is required of him when he applied for amnesty, is that not so?

MS MOODLEY: Yes but with all due respect and I mean this in the best way that I say it, I mean I don't want it to be misinterpreted, but when a document this morning in relation to that affidavit was deposed to by the next-of-kin was only shown to the applicants this morning and they immediately when I elicited instructions in relation to the paragraph 6, they immediately said if this is the position why is the next-of-kin not here because then we would be able to actually put it to him that what he was saying in there was not so.  I think at this stage both the applicants have taken the Commission into their confidence, they have made full disclosures and they would not at this point want to gainsay the fact that the deponent to the last affidavit was not telling the truth if that was not really the position.  I believe, my instructions are that in relation to the allegation in the - the statement in the affidavit that the deceased was not a member of a political organisation cannot be accepted and go unchallenged.  The instructions of the applicants are that ...(intervention)

MR DE JAGER: It's not their instructions, their evidence was in fact that he was partaking and he was - so it was not your instructions, we can't deal with what happened between you and your client, we're dealing with the evidence.

MS MOODLEY: No, no but that is the position that the applicants' views on that matter was that that was not so and that he was in fact a member of the organisation, this was a political offence and there were political reasons for the conduct of themselves on that particular day.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought we were however exhausting your point with regard to Mr Madlala in particular's dishonest disclosure with regard to the application, his initial form 2 application to the Amnesty Committee.  Have you exhausted that point?

MS MOODLEY: Yes I have.  And it's going to be my submission finally that the murder of Mpumalelo Phewa, according to the criteria in sub-section 3 is associated with a political objective and was committed by the applicant as members of the ANC in support of the ANC, bona fide in the belief and in the furtherance of a political struggle waged by the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: And that concludes your submission?

MS MOODLEY: Unless you would like to hear me on any other issue?

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.   Ms Mtanga?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, as I had indicated earlier on, I would like to leave this matter in your hands.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Ms Moodley and Ms Mtanga for the assistance you've rendered to the Committee in assisting us to reach a just and equitable decision.  A lot of evidence has been led in respect of these two applications.  We already have a portion which has been transcribed and because we already have a transcribed portion, we'll wait for the other one to be transcribed as well.  In the premises, we are going to reserve our judgement in respect of these two applications and give an assurance that we will pronounce our decision in due course.

MS MOODLEY: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Moodley, you will be advised of our decision and you will then immediately communicate our decision to your clients, the applicants in these applications.  This brings us to the end of our roll in Durban for this hearing.  As we proceed to our different destinations we would like to express our gratitude to members of Correctional Services for the prompt delivery of applicants to our venue.  I think for the first time I can proudly say that your service has been more than magnificent except for today when I believe there was a mix up with regard to notices but we thank you and hope that you continue doing the good work because this definitely facilitates us in expediting our work.  As you know we are a short lived Committee.
	We wish to express our enormous gratitude to the translators for a very difficult job that they seem to manage with such ease and our gratitude to the logistics officer for the organisational work, the venue and everything, we enjoyed our meals.  Our gratitude to members of the media and our support staff and our gratitude as already expressed to Members of my Panel and the legal representatives concerned and to the public at large.  We thank you.  Bye bye.
HEARING ADJOURNS