Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-26

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: When I look carefully I could see that this is the result of the conflict between the two organisations, because I was not a member of any organisation, I was just an ordinary person, I was not one of, a member of any organisation at the time.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Questions?  Tom Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: If I understood you well, you do not know whether these people are IFP members or not.
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NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: I do not know whether they are IFP members or ANC members, because they were wearing private clothes.  They didn't have any sign of the party they belonged to.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The two that came during the day was a boy and a girl and during the night of the attack were two men.  Will you agree with us when we say there was conflict in the past year in Tigane between the ANC and the IFP?  What is your answer?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: Yes, I know there were conflicts.  My story happened in 1993. I knew that such things were happening.  My story took place in 1993.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Will you agree then with Annie Mogapi when she said there is peace today, conflicts have gone by?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: Yes, that is true.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just clarify something.  The girl and the boy that called at your tuck shop for a donation, wanted a donation for a funeral of an IFP person.

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you didn't give them any donation?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: I didn't give them money, I said they should wait for my husband.

CHAIRPERSON: And was it later that same day that your house was burgled, your tuck shop was burgled or robbed?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: It was in the same week, I can say they came on Friday or Thursday and the attackers came on Saturday evening.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you say in your written statement that your husband approached the IFP, the IFP leader in that community in Tigane the following day, and that he was chased away.
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NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: Yes, that's true.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did your husband approach the IFP leader?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: I don't know whether he knew these boys were members of the IFP. I just saw him the next morning, waking up very early.  He told me when he came back that he had been to the IFP members. I said to him do you have evidence that they were members of IFP?  He said whether there is evidence or not, but I had to go and see them, because they are giving us trouble.  I said to him listen here, you didn't get the TV in their position and the goods they took from us, you don't have evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he associate with any of the two groupings?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: We were not members of any party.  We didn't belong to any political party.  It is now lately that I have seen him with ANC card.  He didn't belong to any political party then.  Last year I went to visit Johannesburg and when  came back from my visit, I saw this ANC card. I said oh, my husband is now a member of the ANC, but during that time we were just ordinary citizens.

CHAIRPERSON: I am not sure of this, you might have mentioned this before, but did you take the matter to the police, did you ask the police to investigate for you?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: No, they only came to take a statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Did you never hear anything about their investigation?

NAUM T PULANE MOKAE: Nothing, Sir.  Every time I meet this other one driving a police van I would ask him where my TV licence as and he would not give me an answer.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions, Piet?  Nothing.  Mrs Mokae, we have noted your evidence.  We also have the written
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statement that you have given us.  Dr Randera has already earlier referred to the fact that you have patiently waited for some time to give your evidence.  We appreciate that.  We want to emphasise that the fact that you are the last person giving evidence, doesn't mean that your case is less important than any of the other cases.  It is just that we have to take cases in a certain sequence. So it is purely coincidental that you were heard last. In fact, you were the penultimate case on the roll, but we had to take the last one earlier for good reason.  So I just need to emphasise that your case will receive the same attention as any of the other cases.
 We have noted that you reported this case to the police. It obviously needs some investigation in order to try and ascertain exactly what happened.  Also, whether indeed it is a matter that falls within the mandate of the Commission. It seems to be a robbery. We will have to look in the context within which this occurred.  There seemed to have been an assault on your husband, as well, in the process.  So we have to look at it carefully.  Before we can reach any conclusions we would need some more information.  There will have to be some more investigation into the matter. But thank you for coming, once again, and thank you for waiting and thank you for being patient.
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