Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-02

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: Mr Mbandazyo came and he said: "How come that you ask a white person to represent you whilst we are around being attorneys of the party?  Okay Africans, sign these forms".  We've signed those forms having not read those forms.  Because he was in a rush he left.  	We realised later that this person came to rob us.  Our mistake was not to read those forms.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know what sort of forms they were?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: I've not seen those forms again, I do not know.

MS COLLETT: Now, how many forms did you sign without seeing the content thereof?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: The forms that we signed were those that we couldn't read, the ones that said we were not, we were against being represented by Sally Corlett plus those he said we must simply fill in our signatures as applications to the Commission and he would fill everything in in his office about the case as he knew everything about it.
	Later we thought: no we want this case to go on trial because we realised something is wrong now as they do not want this case to go on trial.  We felt we must go on with this case.  In Court at Bisho before this case we had a serious altecation with Mr Ntonga and Mr Mbandazayo and they said we must not go on trial with this case because if we go on they are going to represent us.  
	We refused that they must represent us.  We had a serious altecation and they said we are not going to get through otherwise we are not going to even appear before the Commission: "All Africans are going to be angry with you for having been represented by a white person in our presence" and we said: "No, we don't care".
	The case went on as it was going on.  I requested Sally Corlett as to, can she not represent us at the Commission and she complied.  She gave us forms to fill in that we are going to be represented by her at the Commission.  
	We duly did so and we told here: "If we are represented at the Commission, please tell the Commission we have stopped being represented by Mr Ntonga and Mbandazayo.  He must send those forms that was sent to the Commission through our names, those that he said he was going to fill in in his office and then bring them to us so that we could see them".  It did not come back.
	Indeed the Commission sent back those forms that were sent by them.  That form came back blank with our signature only.  What he did, what Mr Mbandazayo did was to go to the police and ask for a confession statement or confessions statements we made during our arrest and tied them to this with a stapler and sent them the Commission.  
	I showed him this at the Court in Bisho and said to him: "Is this the reason why you said we must not go to the Court"? and he did not answer.  Till today he does not greet me.  What he did now just recently, he met Dumisani's mother and said: "Ja, your sons have sold out, they took Tjobane to the TRC and to the Court.  They are not going to be saved by the Commission".  
	To say a person is: "sold out" is to just insult a person.  I do not know how they can say such a thing as I'm still in prison.  Today I've come to ask for amnesty as I have come to ask for forgiveness.  This matter that he was going to say this is what happened to the Commission passed.  
	The case went on, the police went to take Tona who was our driver during the Bahai matter and made this, and turned him into a State witness.  Tona's statement is the same as ours.  The Court could not hold us accountable.  
	The Court decided that Jimmy Jones must be brought in as a State witness to testify against us.  He did not do so.  After three days saying that he's consulting with Mr Mbandazayo he could not.  He said he was going to come to the Commission.  
	We called ...[indistinct] Mpashlele as the witness in our favour.  He told the Court the report back about all these missions including that of the Bahai Faith Tjabane got and he thanked him.  That is what he said at Court.
	During the case, Tjabane arrived in prison on a Saturday.  They arrived at the same time with my mother who came to visit me.  Africa Jimmy Jones had called myself and Dumisani, Jlomo and Siko to tell us that we must change what we told the Court because what we did was to sell out and to change that which we were going to say to the Commission because he's not going to go there, he's going to go and deny everything.
	We told him: "Africa, you see you don't command us here, it is not at the base here.  For that matter we are not guerillas we are just civilians and you cannot tell us what we must do and that which we must not do, this is not the army".
	He sweared to us and said we are people supposed to be killed and my mother was also telling him a lot of things, he left.  We told the Court about all of this because he's now threatening us.  The Court ordered him never to go back to prison.  
	It was not long thereafter another African came.  The last time I saw him was in 1995, Numanilili who aksed what madness we are doing, that we mention Tjobane at the TRC and at the Court.  As we were trying to answer he swore at me and hit me.  It was in prison.  I hit him very hard, I don't want to lie, I hit him very hard, I hit him. 	He left saying that he was going to charge me and I lay a charge against him too.

MS COLLETT: So is the gist of what you're saying that you were intimidated not mention Jimmy Jones as a person who was involved in giving you orders?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: That is so.

MS COLLETT: But nonetheless you did in fact mention Jimmy Jones to be the person who gave you the orders at the Bahai trial and you have done so in your subsequent amnesty application, is that correct?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: That is so.

MS COLLETT: Is that in fact the truth, was Jimmy Jones the person who gave the orders for you to carry out these missions?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: That is so.

MS COLLETT: No you've mentioned that the application that was filled in by the attorney in connection with the Bahai Faith Mission came back blank.  What do you actually mean by that?  What do you mean by blank?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: The application he had said he was going to fill in at his own office and we must simply append our signatures came back from the Commission with our signatures only, clearly he had sent it like that.  He had sent that with our confession statements we had made at the police.  Clearly he was selling us out, protecting Tjabane in order to have us staying in prison.

MS COLLETT: I'm going to show you an application at page 8 of the record, will you have a look at that?  Is this the application you're talking about?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: ...[no English translation]

MS COLLETT: And this annexure that is annexed to it, is this what you are alledging is the statement that you made to the police?
	Mr Chairman, I'm referring him to 14A which is annexed to this application.  It goes to 15A to 14R.

MR LAX: Just for the record Mr Collett, that is the confession that he made to the police that was used in the trial?

MS COLLETT: That's correct Mr Chairperson, that is the confession that was made that was rule admissable at the East London trial.
	Is that correct?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: Yes, it is.

MS COLLETT: Now, after you had seen this application, is it correct that you then requested that there be a supplementary affidavit prepared on behalf of both you and your co-applicant setting out what you regarded as full disclosure?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you go on, is this application that you've just been shown, that is the one at page 8, the application that as, I understood you to say, was returned in blank with only your signature and your statement attached to it?  Is this what you were shown, this typed application?

ZUKILE AUGUSTINE MBAMBO: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: So it wasn't blank, it was in fact filled in?