Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-08

CHAIRPERSON: How old was he when he was killed?

WITNESS:   He was  born in 1966.  I'm not quite sure how old was he at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: But he was born in 1966.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he in school?

WITNESS:   He was at school at Lebohang.

CHAIRPERSON: What standard?

WITNESS:   He was doing Standard 8.

CHAIRPERSON: Standard 8.  Before your son was killed he went to exile.  Do you know where he went to?

WITNESS:   I don't know in exile where he went.

CHAIRPERSON: What made him go to exile, do you know?

WITNESS:   I don't know the reason.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  According to your statement he left in 1985 and do you know which country he went to when he left this country?

WITNESS:   I don't know in which country he went.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me remind you according to your statement you say that he went to Tanzania.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   They said he went to Tanzania.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  And then is that true and he returned in 1990?

WITNESS:   That's true.  He came back in 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: Then can you tell us what happened then from there when he returned?  When he came back from Tanzania what happened with him?

WITNESS:   When we heard about his death when he was in Cape Town, we were told that Samuel Baloi has died in Cape Town.  We heard by Monica's son who was staying in Tabong.  They were together in Cape Town.  That's the one who told us about Samuel's death.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is that who told you about his death?

WITNESS:   The one who told us about his death is Monica.

CHAIRPERSON: Monica - is that a lady or a man?

WITNESS:   She stays at Tabong and she was at Cape Town College. Did she tell you how your son died?   ---   She was told by Samuel's friend and that friend told Monica that Samuel Baloi has been killed by police.  Monica is the one who gave us the information at Tabong that Mzuga has died.

CHAIRPERSON: With whom did your son go to Cape Town?

WITNESS:   I don't now who went with him.

CHAIRPERSON: What was happening in Cape Town, do you know?

WITNESS:  I don't know.  Maybe he came back from Tanzania to Cape Town but I don't know what was happening at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, can I remind you according to your statement that according to your statement you said that your son was shot in Guguletu in Cape Town during the celebrations of Nelson Mandela's release.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Did your son have other relatives?

WITNESS:   He was having a friend called Nabo in Guguletu.

CHAIRPERSON: Nabo was a friend in Guguletu.

WITNESS:   That was his friend in Guguletu.

CHAIRPERSON: When he was murdered was Nabo there in Guguletu?

WITNESS:   I don't know as to whether Nabo was there.

CHAIRPERSON: You have never tried to find out?

WITNESS:   No, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: In the Baloi family, do you know of a person called Geoff Baloi?

WITNESS:   I don't know him, Sir.  Maybe he's known by my husband.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  In your statement here you say that you sent your lawyer to fetch the body.  Who was that lawyer?

WITNESS:   ANC Comrades instructed Advocate Rampai to go and fetch the corpse in Cape Town.  They were accompanied by my eldest son to go and fetch the corpse in Cape Town.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where this lawyer is, could be found?   /---   I know

CHAIRPERSON: ---   I know his office is in Tabong.  I don't know where he is right in town.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you people get the death certificate for your son?

WITNESS:   Yes, we got the death certificate.

CHAIRPERSON: What was written on the death certificate?  What was the cause of the death?

WITNESS:   I don't know but it has been caused by  ... (incomplete)

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know what is written on it, what caused his death?

WITNESS:   I'm illiterate.  I don't know how to read.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Was there an inquest made about the death of your son?

WITNESS:   Advocate Rampai went there to go and fetch the corpse.  He did discuss with those people there in Cape Town.  They went to where he was shot.  When they returned they returned with the corpse.  Then the corpse was brought by an aeroplane.  After that when we were supposed to make some investigations to look for his clothes, they said the government has burned his properties;  they were full of blood.

CHAIRPERSON: Who said the government has burned his property;  it was full of blood?  Who said that?

WITNESS:   That's the government there in Cape Town.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it the people of the government in Cape Town who said that they burned his clothes?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there ever any court case about the death of your son?

WITNESS:   There was no court proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the reason for that?

WITNESS:   We lacked funds to travel to Cape Town and therefore the case didn't go on.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you get any advice from you lawyer Rampai?

WITNESS:   Since I left him during the funeral I've never met him again.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is your son buried?

WITNESS:   He was buried at Tabong.

CHAIRPERSON: How has the death of your son affected you and the whole family?

WITNESS:   We were badly affected where me and my husband went to hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: How were you affected?

WITNESS:   I had asthma immediately.  Then I was not even able to talk.  My husband is diabetic and has high blood pressure.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you getting any treatment?

WITNESS:   We get treatment at Oppenheimer Hospital.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it free of charge?

WITNESS:   They deduct from his salary.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mama Baloi.  We have noted here your request as here on the paper specially that one of investigation of the circumstances of your son's death and we'll do all what we can to see if we cannot fulfil your wish by doing this investigation.  Thank you very much.  We know the pain you're having to lose your son in this way when he was back from exile to come and die at home during the dawn of a new era when we were celebrating our liberation and he could not enjoy the fruits of what he has been fighting for.  That is really painful indeed.  Again I want to repeat to say that the seeds of the death people was our liberation although some of them did not have to see this new era or dispensation.  Thank you very much for coming but I'm going to leave it for the other committee members if they've got any questions they want to put to you before I release you.

CHAIRPERSON: /PROF MAGWAZA

PROF MAGWAZA: Mama Baloi, I have just two more questions.  The first one, when your son came back from Tanzania, did you know that he was back?  Did you meet him before he died or was it the first time you heard that he was back when he was killed in Cape Town?

WITNESS:   I was surprised when I heard about his death in Cape Town.

PROF MAGWAZA: Did you think he was still in Tanzania?

WITNESS:   Yes.  (Witness emotionally upset)

CHAIRPERSON: Take time, Mama.  Just take time.  We know that you are feeling the pain.  Just take your time.  What you are doing is not something that is abnormal.  It's a normal thing for people to shed tears when they feel the pain, especially under these circumstances.

PROF MAGWAZA: When you feel better, Mama, you can answer the question.  I know you have been trying to control yourself for a long time.

WITNESS:   I will give an answer.

PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.  The other thing, Mama, which I would like to ask is that we would like to follow your request of getting the identity of the killers.  Do you have some information about how your son was killed?  Did somebody shoot at him or did the police use a grenade to attack him or was it anybody else other than the police?  What rumours did you get?