Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-28

MR TSHOLANKU: I'll keep his hands off the mike Mr Chairman.
	Mr Smiles, before this hand grenade incident, how long had you been a member of the ANC or the member of the particular unit falling under the command of Mr Mbatha?

WALTER SMILES: I joined the civics in 1990, 1991 I joined the ANC Youth League, I joined the MK structure in 1992.  In 1992, I had to leave the country because of the same incident -  I still felt unhappy about the mother, I felt that the mother should know who was the person behind this whole event so I came back from Johannesburg.  It was for me very difficult for me to explain because the family was in a very bad condition.

MR TSHOLANKU: Now, what I want to find out from you is - ever since you joined this command structure under the command of Major Mbatha, have you ever at any given point in time disobeyed an order that was given by him?

WALTER SMILES: I never refused an instruction from him.

MR TSHOLANKU: Why is it that you've never disobeyed an order?

WALTER SMILES: Sometimes if you refused an order there could be drastic action against you, not to say that he would do it personally but an order was an order.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interpose Mr Tsholanku?

MR TSHOLANKU: You're welcome.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I don't know whether I have taken the correct notes here, did Mr Smiles say that in 1992 he left the country because of this incident?

MR TSHOLANKU: He said in 1992 he wanted to leave the country because of this incident but he then returned back from Johannesburg but I can ask him to clarify that - whether it was in 1992 or later, what is it that he exactly wanted to convey.
	Mr Smiles, can you clarify the point pertaining to your wanting to skip the country pertaining to this particular incident, when was that and what happened?

WALTER SMILES: It was in 1992.

MR TSHOLANKU: Are you sure it was 1992 Mr Smiles?

WALTER SMILES: Yes, it was 1992 - I've still got my passport here.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did you leave the country in 1992 after this incident?

WALTER SMILES: I wanted to leave the country, I should have left the country.

ADV DE JAGER: Why did you have to leave the country?

WALTER SMILES: About the same incident.

ADV DE JAGER: I think what the lawyer is asking you was that the incident was only in '93, why is it that you wanted to leave in '92?

WALTER SMILES: Then I misunderstood him.

ADV DE JAGER: Now, when did you want to leave the country - after the incident?

WALTER SMILES: After the incident, that's correct.

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you, that will be the evidence of Mr Smiles, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR TSHOLANKU

CHAIRPERSON: Professor de Koker?

PROF DE KOKER: Mr Chairman, may I venture to suggest that this might be a good moment for a five minute break, I'd appreciate it if you could allow me to get my notes in order and it might also break this rather long afternoon.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we'll proceed to Mr Bode.

MR BODE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Smiles, I represent several of the victims and more specifically in the first instance, the parents of Izekial Mokone.  The parents of Mr Mokone are present today and I firstly want to know, did you know the deceased Izekial Mokone?

WALTER SMILES: No.

MR BODE: Did you at any stage go to the house of the parents of the deceased or at any other place went to them and apologised to them for
your action?

WALTER SMILES: No.  Mr Bode, it was difficult at that time - I don't know how the people feel, there may be people who feel a bit better, some felt bad about it - that's why I couldn't go.

MR BODE: Did you - after the incident had occurred, did you go to the ANC and did you say that you threw the hand grenade and that you accept responsibility, did you do that?

WALTER SMILES: Mr Bode, I went to my Major, he was in the ANC office, I explained about the incident - that is correct.

MR BODE: Besides you commander Laurens Mbatha, did you go to any other person in the ANC and said that you had committed it and that you accept responsibility?

WALTER SMILES: Mr Bode, I work on instructions - I cannot go to anyone else, I just work through Laurens.

MR BODE: You must remember that the parents of Izekial, they weren't present with the hand grenade attack, they don't know what happened but they have a lot of pain about this loss of Izekial and they specifically asked me whether would here in front of all the people, be prepared to say to them that you are sorry for what you have done, that you regret the fact what happened to his son.  Will you say it today?

WALTER SMILES: Yes, I explained it last year and I want to explain it again, I apologise for that what I did.  Those who were injured I have to apologise, that was the only choice I have.

MR BODE: You knew that the Trust Bank building in a high building, approximately 10-15 floors high, is that so?

WALTER SMILES: Yes.

MR BODE: When you went to the Trust Bank building and you knew that you were going to throw this hand grenade, you also knew that is was approximately midday and it's in the middle - it was a week day, what did you think of the other people who could be present, people who weren't part of this march, people who weren't part of - members of the organisation?  What about the people working there, the people who were in the shops, the people passing by, what did you think about these people?

WALTER SMILES: What I thought was - it wasn't my intention to hurt them.

MR BODE: But didn't you think that if you threw a hand grenade at such a place at that time - that time of the week, that other people could be injured?  Didn't you think that other people could be present in that Trust Bank building?

WALTER SMILES: As I explained the first time, the aim of the hand grenade was that the people had to go back, they had to move away - at that stage I would throw it into the Trust Bank building, that was the aim.

MR BODE: Those were the people who were part of the march, the marchers but what about the other people - the people like my client Mr Dan Pethani, that was where he worked - he's allowed to walk there, what about him?

WALTER SMILES: What I explained and what I say and I also asked forgiveness in my amnesty application for him.

MR BODE: Several of my clients, Mr Dan Pethani, Miss Audrey Gorrel, Miss Millicent Mtebe, Mr Frank Moremedi and Paul Kock, all of them had to go to hospital because of injuries they sustained and up to today they still suffer from these injuries, they still have shrapnel in their bodies and the possibility of medical attention in the future is not excluded.
	And my instruction from these clients - these people who still suffer because of the action, is that today you should here in the presence of the public apologise to them without any reservation, without holding back that you say that you are sorry for what you have done because you apparently haven't done it.  Are you prepared today to do it?

WALTER SMILES: Yes, I am prepared and I apologise.  I don't know whether they are here or where they are but I believe they can hear me and I apologise and that's all I can say.

MR BODE: Did you ever at any stage besides reporting to Laurens Mbatha, did you ever go to any of these people that I mentioned or any of the other victims perhaps who aren't here, did you ever go to them
and say to them: "I'm sorry for what I did and I give my apology"?

WALTER SMILES: I remember this one girl, I know her, we worked together, we are both in the army, that was the only one because I trust her and she has given me forgiveness.

MR BODE: Mr Chairperson, I do not have any further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BODE

CHAIRPERSON: Professor de Koker?

PROF DE KOKER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Smiles, when did you learn first about this march?

WALTER SMILES: It wasn't so long beforehand.