Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-11

LOTHAR NEETHLING: In 1993 I was an independent entity.  I joined the Police - first let me start from the beginning.  I had a bursary from Agricultural Services.  I want to the USA in 1959, and I obtained my Doctorate there.  I came back and worked for the Department of Agricultural Technical Services till 1970.  I was stationed at two places, at Roodeplaat Agricultural Institute, I doesn't have anything to do with the other Roodeplaat, that was my first station and I did many experiments there regarding grapes.  Afterwards I went to Onderstepoort where I became the head of the X-ray section because my background in the USA entailed the use of radio-active materials in the field of agricultural research, and this involved the use of isotopes in agricultural research.  I became involved in a big project where certain analysis had to be done where large pieces of analysis were made regarding cenellium and other substances leading to those diseases which caused diseases in agriculture and losses were made during certain cycles and caused great problems.  Then I went to the South African Police.  On the 15th of January 1971 I started there and I was asked to establish a Forensic Laboratory and that activity suited my temperament very well.  I'm not a person who likes routine because I like to be involved in a lot of things at the same time and the forensic science was a very attractive option because I ...(intervention)

MR VALLY: I'm sorry, we have been told by your counsel that you want to catch a plane.  I just want to know your professional history from this period to this period I was a Constable or a Lieutenant, from this to this period I was in this rank or that Department, that's all I want to know.

LOTHAR NEETHLING: In 1971 I joined the South African Police as a full Colonel.  I was promoted in '79 to Brigadier.   I was promoted - I'm sorry, in '74 I was promoted to Brigadier Assistant Commissioner and in 1976 a full Brigadier and 1979 I was promoted to a Major-General, and 1985 to a Lieutenant-General.  In other words, I was part of the general staff of the Police from 1979 until I retired in 1992.  There was nobody longer before or after me and I think I can speak on behalf of the South African Police.  Is that what you wanted?  After August 1992 I retired.  The post which I occupied at that stage was the post I occupied since '85, it was - I was overhead responsible for a whole range of departments.  I was  responsible for information systems, for communication, the dog school, the criminal record system and the forensic department.  I handed over command of the forensic laboratory unofficially in 1985 when I Lieutenant-Colonel, and 1989 from moving from one building to the other, I handed over to the new Commanding Officer, that was Brigadier Heyn Strauss, and he also retired - he left the service a few years later and he joined SASOL.  And in the meantime two other Commanding Officers were appointed.  Since 1985 I was not involved in the daily activity of the laboratory.  I was responsible for those five departments and I was also responsible for other loose kind of jobs.  This meant that I was overhead responsible for a budget of more than R1 billion.  It increased during that time because, as you know, computers and things are very expensive, and we were at all times involved in eradicating a big backlog regarding information systems, especially with the criminal record system.  That was my career.
 An unfortunate incident took place in 1989, the end of 1989, certain information was made available regarding ...(inaudible) and there was an appeal after a court case in 1994 where the allegation was made that I was responsible for the provision of poison to Dirk Coetzee, and at that stage I categorically denied that.  I did not do that.  My laboratory, while I was there, did not provide poison to anybody at any stage.  We did our very best to develop an analytical capability which would enable us to solve any analytical problem which would develop in solving crime.  That was my main purpose with the establishment of the laboratory, which was very successful and is becoming even more and more successful using new techniques like DNA.
 I'm very sorry that I had to read all these lies in the newspapers and this has ruined my career.  The Police had to make a plan and this post of the Head of Criminology in 1985 - they described it in the same way as what they did when they had to get somebody out of the system, they changed the job description and I landed up being an advisor for the South African Police, especially the Commissioner.  My whole career in the Police was geared at the establishment of the laboratory.

MR VALLY: Sorry, Gen Neethling, did you wish to read a statement to the Commission before I started questioning you?

LOTHAR NEETHLING: I have no statement in front of me.

MR VALLY: Okay, sorry, I do have your Police career right now.  I need to ask you some questions.

LOTHAR NEETHLING: Please do.

MR VALLY: Thank you.

MR VALLY: Firstly, when you were in charge of the Police laboratories, do you recall the Thallium poisoning case of Simpiwe Mtimkhulu?

LOTHAR NEETHLING: I was notified about that, or I became involved in that through the Deputy Attorney-General, I don't know which of the two posts of the Eastern Cape.  He contacted me at a stage and he said such a case did occur there.
 This was mentioned also to the laboratory and said an analysis had to be done on a urine sample from a certain person.  This sample was flown in, the dossier is available on the, that was in December, I don't know which year, it was early in the 1980's.  The person who picked that up, it was sent by courier, he brought the sample to the laboratory.  I wasn't present there, It was December, I was on two weeks holiday, that was the only time I could spend with my family.  It was damaged there, and when they opened it there was no sample.  Everything was dissolved in the cottonwool or the paper.

MR VALLY: The identification of a poison with which Mr Simpiwe Mtimkhulu was poisoned was done by Professor Frances Ames from the University of Cape Town, is that correct?

LOTHAR NEETHLING: That is correct, yes.  I have spoken to her on the telephone.

MR VALLY: And you specifically requested her to send you samples, was it tissue samples, hair samples?

LOTHAR NEETHLING: No, I asked for hair samples and for urine samples, and I only received a urine sample.  The hair sample, that was the only case where we had an example of possible Thallium poisoning, and there were certain characteristic strains in the hair of a poisoned person which is easily identifiable according to the literature, but there was no sample which we could use for that.  The analysis which Dr Ames did was done in England, and there was no question that I would question or query these findings.

MR VALLY: So the sample that was sent at your request to the Police Forensic Laboratories, either was damaged or didn't arrive.  Your Police Forensic Laboratories where you were in charge of them didn't give any response to your perception of what the poisoning was.

LOTHAR NEETHLING: There was no way in which we could determine what the possible toxin could be, and there was not further way how we could obtain another sample, because, after enquiries, they said there was not person available from whom they could obtain the sample, the person had disappeared, so there was no possibility to get another sample.

MR VALLY: We do know now what happened to Mr Mtimkhulu, are you aware of what happened to Mr Mtimkhulu?

LOTHAR NEETHLING: I read during the court cases that he in one or other way was abducted and that he had disappeared, but how, I don't know.