Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-09-17

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  My next applicant, Mr Chairman, is George Lulamile Khwankwa.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want him sworn in?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.  If he can be sworn in.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Khwankwa, will you please stand.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: (sworn states)

MR LAX: Sworn in, Chairperson.  You may be seated.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Lax.  Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Khwankwa, do you confirm that the affidavit of Nkosinathi Mpumelelo Mvijane has been read to you?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes, as far as I am implicated, I do confirm it.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.  Now, can you then, Mr Khwankwa, tell the Committee what were your activities before you met Moss?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Before I met Moss I was a delinquent.  I was involved in car stealing and other criminal activities.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, you have told the Committee that you confirm what is contained in the affidavit of Nkosinathi Mvijane.  Now, Nkosinathi Mvijane, in his affidavit, tells the Committee and also under oath that you were not involved in this incident and your application for amnesty indicates that you were involved in this incident.  Can you tell the Committee what is the truth about this whole matter?  What actually happened?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: With regards to my application, indeed I was not present when the incident occurred, but I was arrested and sentenced for twenty five (25) years in prison for something that I did not commit.  I made this application because I have been sentenced and I am aware of who committed the crime and I believe that it was a politically motivated crime which is why I eventually made the application.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, can you tell the Committee what Mr Mvijane told the Committee, that he instructed you to go to the place of the incident.  Can you tell the Committee what did you see when you arrived there?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: As Mpumelelo asked me to go and survey the place, I did go and I found other people standing around the deceased.  There was a small boy that I met, a person called Mphekeni who stayed near Mpumelelo's place and he was telling the police that he actually saw the people who committed the crime.  I went back to Mpumelelo and told him that there was an eyewitness and he knows them and that the police would indeed be arriving shortly or at any time.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How far were you when this young boy was telling the police that he knew the people who committed the offence?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I was not very far.  I could estimate maybe from here to the guy in the white shirt.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That, Mr Chairman, would be about two metres?

CHAIRPERSON: Which guy is it?

MR LAX: That guy over there.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh.

MR LAX: Three metres.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, that would be about three metres.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Can you tell the Committee whether this young boy - did this young boy saw you?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I am certain that he did see me because I was very close.  I am sure that he did see me.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is it also true that he told the court that you were not there when he testified in court?  That you were not there when this offence was committed?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes, he did testify that he did see the people who had committed the crime and he identified Mpumelelo and could not or did not see the other one, but he did mention that I was not there.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all, Mr Chairman, at this stage, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr Mapoma, any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, sir.  Mr Khwankwa, were you a member of the PAC?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I was a newly recruited member in the PAC.

MR MAPOMA: When did you join the PAC?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: In 1991.

MR MAPOMA: How did you join the PAC?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Somebody called Moss came to me and he recruited us to join the PAC and he also encouraged us to stop criminal activities and he also advised us on the ...(indistinct) way in which our country was being governed by white people and he convinced me to instead fight for the liberation of our country is that of engaging in criminal activities and I agreed with him.

MR MAPOMA: In the PAC is there any position that you occupied?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: No, I did not hold any position because, as I've mentioned, I was a new recruit and I had not received proper military training.

MR MAPOMA: Were you a card carrying member of the ANC - of PAC?  Sorry, of PAC.

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: As I have just mentioned, Moss convinced us to join and he said everything that we did he will report to the offices so we will just continue to carry out our activities.

MR MAPOMA: No, no, just answer my question.  My question is, were you a card carrying member of the PAC?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: No, I had not received a card.

MR MAPOMA: You will agree with me that the members of the PAC, I mean after the PAC was unbanned, it was joined by getting the card, the joining card, the membership card of the PAC.  How did you join the PAC without getting a membership card?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: As I have mentioned, Moss had not taught us everything about the PAC and I did not have proper information that I should obtain a membership card, but what we learnt was from Moss about membership in the PAC.

MR MAPOMA: Were you the member of APLA?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I can say that I was, although I did not have a card, but Moss had already recruited me and I had agreed to become a member of his unit in the township, and we would work together until such time that we obtained full membership.

MR MAPOMA: I see in your application form for amnesty, in paragraph 8(b) you say you were a member of APLA Secret Service.  What is that?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: This application was written by somebody else, and I explained to him that I was not a card carrying member of the APLA because of time constraints and we served as a secret force because we were not yet card carrying members of APLA.

MR MAPOMA: What was the secret force?  What is that?  Is there something like that in the PAC, secret force?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: I can say that it is part of the PAC because I regard myself as a member of the secret force, because there were a lot of other members who did not know me and I had not as yet attended any meeting.

MR MAPOMA: What activities were you engaged in as this secret force?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Our duty was to disarm Government members who had lawful weapons.

MR MAPOMA: Now, in the murder of the deceased, Simon Khungwane, you say you were not involved?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes, I was not involved.

MR MAPOMA: Is there any role that you played as a person?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: What is it?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: The role that I played was to go and survey the place as I was asked to gather information if there had been no eyewitness or if nobody had witnessed the incident or if anybody knew about it.

MR MAPOMA: Now, after your survey did you suggest that - did you play any role in encouraging the culprits to flee?

GEORGE LULAMILE KHWANKWA: Yes, I informed them that somebody had indeed seen them doing this act.

MR MAPOMA: Now that you were not involved in the actual murder of Mr Khungwane, why do you apply for amnesty?