Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-18

MR RHEEDER: As the honourable Chairperson pleases, I do have a few points that I would like to take up on instructions.
	Mr Dyasi, to start off with, your final statement I am instructed to put the following statement to you.  My client indicated that he did not contact you at all since the incident, he is as a policeman and was taught if there is any possibility of criminal charges being investigated against him as a policeman, you should not contact the complainant or their families in the sense that that can lead to further charges of obstruction of justice, the indication is there, I am not giving you evidence at this stage, I am just making the statement to you, you can respond to it if you want to or not.

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: I understand what you are saying sir, but I don't think that it would be the obstruction of justice if you ask for forgiveness to the person that you have offended or maybe if you can write a letter.  I don't think that will be obstruction of justice, so that that letter can be proof that indeed, he has asked for forgiveness.

MR RHEEDER: Then Mr Dyasi, I am also instructed to put to you that and we will get to certain points in due course, a lot of your evidence that you have given to the honourable Committee is to a large extent hearsay testimony and opinion evidence.   If you can just indicate if you understand what hearsay and opinion evidence is or if I should maybe explain that.  It is evidence that was conveyed to you by somebody else, in this instance the unfortunate circumstances of your deceased son and secondly then, opinions that you made yourself due to what you saw and is not, you were not a witness to the specific incident of the shooting itself.

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: It is true that I was not present, but my son told me like I testified.

MR RHEEDER: Regarding the unfortunate circumstances and incident that occurred that specific evening, if I understand your testimony correct, it was approximately nine o'clock that evening that you requested your son to go and have a look for your daughter?  Is that correct?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: I cannot remember, yes, I sent him out to look for my daughter, but I cannot remember the exact time.

MR RHEEDER: Maybe if I can refresh your memory, on the 5th of November 1985 which was two days after the incident you made a statement to the police in Worcester, is that correct?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: I think I made the statement on the 4th.

MS PATEL: Sorry, I am just showing him a copy of what you are referring to.

MR RHEEDER: Maybe to assist the Committee, it is page 31, pages 29 to 31 of the Bundle and on page 31 is the specific stamp by the police indicating that it was attested to on the 5th of November 1985.
	In any event, you do acknowledge that you made a statement, you admit that you made a statement to the police?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, I made the statement.

MR RHEEDER: You also indicated to the police in your statement and started off by saying that you do speak Xhosa, Sotho, but you also understand, to such an extent that you can read, write and - sorry, read, talk Afrikaans or read and speak Afrikaans?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, I do speak Sotho, Xhosa and Afrikaans.

MR RHEEDER: In the statement you indicated that it was nine o'clock that evening that you sent your son out, you remember it specifically because it was just as the TV programme, Network, ended and it was nine o'clock?  Can you now maybe better remember the time when you sent him out?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, I do remember, we were watching TV at that time.  Yes, I do remember that we were watching TV.

MR RHEEDER: It is also, in terms of your statement you went to bed after you sent him out and it was quite a few hours in the excess of three to four hours later that you were contacted by your neighbours, indicating that your son was shot?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, that is correct.

MR RHEEDER: You personally have got no indication as to what your son did from the time when he left the house until the time when you got him or met in the house where you found him after he was shot?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, that is correct.

MR RHEEDER: I want to put it to you that it was possible and in accordance with Mr Luff's testimony, possible that your son could have partook in the attack and the stone throwing on the community hall that evening?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: I wouldn't know sir, as I have already said, I was not there.

MR RHEEDER: Thank you.   You also, when you made the statement, I would assume the incident was very fresh in your memory at that stage, at the time when you made the statement?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, that is correct.

MR RHEEDER: If I understand your testimony this morning, correctly, you indicated at the time when you met your son at the address after he was shot, you indicated that you saw blood and pellets coming from his mouth?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: That is correct.

MR RHEEDER: You see, nowhere in the statement do you make, nowhere in the statement is there any reference to any blood or pellets coming from his mouth.  You do indicate that you saw on his right upper arm and also between his shoulder blades, as you testified this morning, but there is no indication in the statement that there was any blood or pellets coming from his mouth.

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, because I wasn't asked that question, but what I am saying is that I saw the pellets and the blood coming out of his mouth.

MR RHEEDER: It is also correct that you testified before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings on the 24th of June 1996 and I refer to pages 237 and further of the Bundle?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, that is correct.

MR RHEEDER: You see also in that testimony you referred to the bullets coming out of his mouth, but again I couldn't find any reference to any blood coming from his mouth at that, you know, you also didn't mention it to the Commission when you conveyed the version to them.

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, I do remember that I mentioned that the pellets were coming out of his mouth.

MR RHEEDER: Sorry, you didn't mention the blood?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: No, I don't remember mentioning the blood.

MR RHEEDER: You see the reason I am putting this to you is because Mr Luff, as he testified, said that they didn't notice any pellets or any blood coming from your son's mouth at the time when they found him or when he found him at that house, that specific morning.  I assume you can't really respond to that, except to take note of it.
	A further point, just to take you back to the statement that you made to the police, on page 30 of the Bundle, you also mentioned to the police, you did mention that according to you he was in pain, but you furthermore mentioned that he was capable of speaking normally.  Can you remember that?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Yes, I do remember mentioning this and he could speak normally.

MR RHEEDER: So he was not in so much pain that he was not able to communicate with you and speak normally even?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: I was there, I was in front of him, I could see that he was in terrible pain and I wanted to wake him up, but he couldn't wake up, so how can you say that he was not in pain?

MR RHEEDER: You are now referring to waking him up.  I understood you to say that you spoke to him and he conveyed to you in a normal way, he spoke to your normally so can we then take it that he was awake at the time when you got there?

STEPHANS METLE DYASI: Sir, if you understood me well, I said he was laying down when I arrived and he was in pain.  He was screaming silently, he was in pain when I was arriving there and I could see that he was in pain, that is what I said.

MR RHEEDER: What was your impression at that stage, were you under the impression that he was in serious danger?