Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-30

CHAIRPERSON: This is the 30th of October 1997, we are hearing the applications of Mohase and Monyake.  The panel is constituted as follows, myself Judge Ngoepe and to my left Advocate de Jager SC and to my right Ms Khampepe, Mr Mpshe will lead the evidence.
	Would you place yourself on record Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chair, it's Mthembu for both applicants, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman and members of the Committee. Mr Chairman, we're going to start with the application of Stephen Mqeketsi Monyake, application number 1352/96.  Mr Chairman, I just want to put on record that all the people affected by this application, that is the victims and next of kin have been informed.
	I have copies of the notices sent out to them and they have sent the acknowledgement of receipt back to Cape Town, I have them with me and they've indicated that they will be coming.  My information which I got yesterday as well as this morning via Mr Dennis Bloem who's here in prison is that the ANC has arranged that they  be brought here today by Kombi and they're coming with one of the ANC leaders, Mr Thulo Machaba.  
	They are on their way per Kombi but I want to make an application that we commence with hearing because the message given to me by him as well as the legal representative - and when I spoke to them yesterday, is that they are not opposing.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we proceed, I notice it's now 10 o'clock and we indicated yesterday that we were adjourning unit 9 o'clock and we have been waiting for an hour, what would be the explanation for that Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, the explanation that I can give is that we were delayed today by the Correctional Service Department.  Yesterday at - I made a note somewhere, I'll find it, yesterday at about a quarter past 3, I telephoned the Correctional Services here in Kimberley, I spoke to a certain Mr Visagie and arranged with him that the applicants must be here by 8 o'clock today and he informed me that only one that is Mr Mohase, was already with them but they were expecting Mr Monyake who was to come from Kroonstad and he said he will come and he will make sure that they are here today at 8 o'clock.  I was here Mr Chairman at twenty to eight - I was already waiting for them to arrive, they did not arrive, I telephoned the Correctional Services Department at about five past nine and I was told that they had left at a quarter to nine.  And later on at about twenty past or twenty five past nine, Committee Member Advocate Chris de Jager telephoned them again to find out what could be happening, he spoke to a Mr Britz who is herein and Advocate Chris de Jager was told that the people were still in prison at that time and I drove down to the prison with one of the policemen here and we actually found them still at the jail there and we had to follow them to come down here - the whole delay was caused by the Correctional Services.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Britz?  Is he here - Mr Britz?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, he's not here.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, is there anybody to maybe explain to us what was the problem?   You could speak in Afrikaans if you choose.  Maybe you could come a little bit nearer.
No sound.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, as I've ...[indistinct] with the Monyake matter.  Another thing before handing over to my learned friend Mr Chairman, Mr Chairman and members of the Committee do have a copy of the transcript in a matter that was heard by this Committee, I'd rather refer to it as Volume 1, that would perhaps help or bundle 1 and Monyake's application, I'll refer to it as bundle 2 for convenience  and Mohase's application, I'll refer to it as bundle 3, thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman, reverting to bundle 1 then, it is the transcript of the evidence of both Machaba Thulo and Dennis Bloem, this has a direct bearing on Monyake's application.  Mr Chairman, they are going to be here, Mr Bloem is already here, Mr Thulo is on the way as I've already explained.  I was making an application Mr Chairman, I've discussed this with my learned friend Mr Mthembu that this be regarded as forming part of the record that will enable the Committee to dispense of Mr Thulo and Mr Dennis Bloem's evidence in that regard.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I suppose that there will be no problem if Mr Mthembu is happy with that.

MR MTHEMBU: I'm happy with that Mr Chair, thank you.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman, I'll hand over to my learned friend.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chair.   Mr Chair, I will call Mr Monyake to the witness stand.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the gentleman sitting?

MR MTHEMBU: That is correct.

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: (sworn states)

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chair.
	Mr Monyake, you are the applicant in this matter, is that correct?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: ...[inaudible]

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chair, the applicant informs me that apparently there is no-one who is translating.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chair, with the Chair's indulgence, perhaps if we could just swap because the applicants were talking on this mike, then it will save time if they will just come over here.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Monyake, you are the applicant ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Your full names?

MR MTHEMBU: In this matter, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Mthembu, make him give us his full names for the record.

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: Stephen Mqeketsi Monyake.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Monyake, you are the applicant in this matter?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: That's correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Is it further correct that you are applying for amnesty for the murder of one Tefo Molele on the 2nd of May 1992 in Kroonstad?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: That's correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Monyake, at the time of the commission of this offence, were you a member, supporter or officer bearer of any political organisation?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: Yes, I was within the ANC, the ANC Youth League.

MR MTHEMBU: In what capacity were you serving in the ANC Youth League?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: I was in the self-defence unit.

MR MTHEMBU: Would you then Sir in your own words, tell the Committee why you regard your act as associated with a political objective for which you are now seeking amnesty?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: The deceased Mr Molele was a member of the Three Million and the Three Million was a group of people which was collaborating with the South African police at that time in Kroonstad under the leadership of Nkatha Freedom Party.

MR MTHEMBU: Yes Sir, proceed.

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: The Three Million was harassing the community of Maukeng, it happened that we engaged in a fight with them as the defence unit.  When they got hold of the ANC's, they were harassing them, killing them and we were defending.

MR MTHEMBU: I just heard you now mentioning defence units, could you just in brief explain to the Committee what role the defence units played at the time?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: The role played by the defence units by that time was to defend the community of Maukeng, the community as a whole against the Three Million.

MR MTHEMBU: Were these defence units formed or established under the auspices or banner of the ANC or not?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: They were formed under the auspices of the ANC.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Sir, proceed.

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: They were formed under the auspices of the ANC.  I remember one day at Gelukwarts - it's part of Kroonstad, we were forming the defence units in 1990, I can't remember the day and the month.  It was in preparation of the fact that the Three Million gang should not harass the community anymore because this was the usual thing to do, harassing the people, raping the people, killing the people.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Sir, is it further correct that on the day in question you and the deceased had met at a tavern in Gelukwarts?

MR MTHEMBU: That's correct.