Amnesty Hearings — Messina — 2000-07-05

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.  These proceedings will be simultaneously translated and if you wish to benefit from the translation, you must be in possession of one of these devices.  I see the sound engineer is handing them out.  You've just got to tune into the correct channel for your language and you'll get the translation.
	Before we start, I'd like to briefly introduce the Panel to you.  On my right is Adv Francis Bosman.  She's a member of the Amnesty Committee and she comes from the Cape.  On my left is Mr Jonas Sibanyoni.  Mr Sibanyoni is also a member of the Amnesty Committee and he is an attorney from Pretoria and I am Selwyn Miller, I'm a Judge of the High Court and I'm attached to the Transkei Division of the High Court.   
	We will today be listening to the applications of Messrs Z A Mhlongo and A M Masil, I'm not quite sure how you pronounce it and at this stage I would request the legal representatives to kindly place themselves on record.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson and Honourable Members of the Committee.  My name is Lungelo Mbandazayo.  I'm representing the applicants in this matter and I'm from the Eastern Cape in East London.  Thank.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.

MR VAN DER HEEVER: Mr Chairperson, I'm Adv J A van der Heever.  I'm representing the Bouwer family.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr van der Heever.  Mr Mbandazayo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson the first applicant to testify will be Zweli Absolon Mhlongo, Chairperson and he will be speaking Zulu.

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mbandazayo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlongo's application commences at page 1 of the bundle of documents before us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Chairperson.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Mhlongo, is it correct that you were born on the 20th May 1972 in Alexander?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes, that is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee how far have you gone to school?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I went as far as Standard 4.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell, Mr Mhlongo, when did you join PAC?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: In 1986.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How old were you when you joined PAC?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: 14 years.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct that you indeed went to exile and when did you go to exile?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes, that is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, can you tell the Committee which year did you got to exile?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: 1987.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct that in exile you joined APLA which is the military wing of the PAC?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee, where were you trained as an APLA cadre?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: In Uganda as well as Tanzania.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How long did your training take?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Two years in Uganda and one year in Tanzania.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee in which field were you trained?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I was trained in infantry.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  Now Mr Mhlongo, when did you come back to the country?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: In 93.

MR MBANDAZAYO: At what time in 93?  The beginning of the year, the middle of the year, or at the end of the year?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: On the 10th of May 1993.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct to say that the year 1993 was the year in which the Commander of APLA, Sabelo Pama declared the year of the Great Storm in which you came back.

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, Mr Mhlongo, when you came inside the country, how many were you, or were you alone?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: There were four of us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.  Tell the Committee about those.  Who were those people?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I cannot recall their surnames, they are people residing in different places.  We all came in one plane.  One that I can remember is Shepherd Mogale.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  Mr Mhlongo, you are applying for amnesty for two incidents.  Can you tell the Committee whether at the time you came inside the country, did you become active in APLA activities or not?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: On arrival on the 10th of May, I spent some time in the township until around September, October, up until Moses Motapo came to fetch me.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.  Can you - Chairperson Moses Motapo is the one who has been referred in most of the applications as Morapapa, Chairperson.  He has been mentioned in many applications Chairperson.  I've been given his name as Moses Motapo, but the others knew him as Morapapa or Moss.  Thank you Chairperson.
	Now can you tell us what did Moses Motapo say to you?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Moses Motapo was one with whom I was training in Uganda and Tanzania and I was not surprised when he came.  I knew he wanted us to discuss APLA matters, maybe to go out on a mission because that is what we were trained for.  When he came to Alexander I told him - he actually told me that we should go to the Northern Province where he was staying.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, continue.

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: So we arrived in the Northern Province around September.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say we arrived in the Northern Province, who are you talking about?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I'm referring to Moses Motapo.  We only went to the Northern Province because he wanted to show me his homes, he has two homes.  There's one in Pietersburg and another one in Alexander, so he wanted to show me his home in the Northern Province, but we then came back to Alexander Township.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, continue, what happened?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: In 1994 in February we went to the Northern Province.  It was himself and Lebohang, whose other name is Silo as well as Ashley, there were four of us.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now can you tell the Committee about Silo.  How did you - did you know Silo before and how did you know him?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I knew him.  He was a member of APLA.  He too was trained, so I knew him from Tanzania.  Actually I knew him from Alexander Township before we went into exile, so I knew him.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your co-applicant?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No Chairperson it's the other one who I understand escaped.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  So the people who went to the Northern Province was himself, Motapo, Lebohang also known as Silo and Ashley.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Chairperson.  Ashley is ...

CHAIRPERSON: Is Ashley the co-accused?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So four of them went?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.  Now did you have, whilst you were in Alexander, did you have any contact with him before you went to the Northern Province?  Did you have any contact with Silo who is Lebohang?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: Yes, we resided in the same street, in the same yard.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now how did you know Ashley?

ZWELI ABSOLON MHLONGO: I knew him through Lebohang.  He was a friend or known to Lebohang.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now tell the Committee, you moved or went to the Northern Province.  Carry on.