Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-11-15

CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon.  I need to apologise for the late start but we had a lot of technical issues to deal with in respect of this application.  We haven't dealt with it all but we thought it necessary to continue in matters that we are able to do so.
     For the purposes of the record I'm going to ask all my colleagues here and all the representatives to announce their names like I'm going to do so that when the record is typed the typists would know who was talking.

JUDGE PILLAY: I am Judge Pillay.

ADV SIGODI: Adv Sigodi from Port Elizabeth.

ADV DE JAGER: Chris de Jager a Member of the Amnesty Committee.

MR NDOU: Patrick Ndou, I'm a local attorney intern.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairman, my name is Van Rensburg S J, from Kriek and Van Rensburg Attorneys at Tzaneen, and I appear on behalf of the Legal Aid Board for the victims in this inquiry.

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson, Ramula Patel, Leader of Evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel, I understand that there are some of the matters that will not be able to proceed during this session because certain requirements of the Act have not been complied with.  I will suggest that we mention those right now so that those people concerned with those matters need not attend for the rest of the week.

MS PATEL: Alright.  Thank you Honourable Chairperson, the incidents to which you refer is that of the murder of Jack Ramarumo & others.  The second matter is that of the murder of Mudzunga Mulaudzi.

CHAIRPERSON: In the first matter who is the applicant there?

MS PATEL: Sorry the applicant is on Dhlukwa application number AM3278/96.

CHAIRPERSON: Well that matter we would postpone sine die.

MS PATEL: That is correct Honourable Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And who is the victim?

MS PATEL: It's the family of Mr Ramarumo.  I can check the exact names if you so wish Honourable Chairperson and revert to you later.
	Alright the next incident that I refer to is that of Mudzunga Mulaudzi ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you go on, I'm sorry Ms Patel, it seems that many people here are unable to follow the proceedings because they are not equipped with earphones, are there any left?  I wonder Mr Intrepreter, for the purposes of this few minutes, would you translate to all the public please?

INTREPRETER: Could you please repeat your question?

CHAIRPERSON: Would you kindly translate what Ms Patel has said so that everybody here can understand and follow what she has said.

INTREPRETER: That is what we are doing, we have done that.

CHAIRPERSON: No, you did it to those who have earphones.  Many of the people do not have earphones.

INTREPRETER: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, proceed Ms Patel.

MS PATEL: Thank you Honourable Chairperson, perhaps I should just repeat.  The matters that have been postponed sine die, are the following:   It's the incident relating to the killing of Jack Ramarumo, the applicant in that matter is Mr Lukwa, application number 3278/96.
    The second matter is the incident involving Mudzunga Mulaudzi, the applicant in that matter is Mr Malima application number 2537 of '96.  
    The third matter is that of Edward Mavhunga, the killing of Edward Mavhunga.  The applicants in that matter are Mr Ramwa, application 2727/96.  Then the second applicant Mr Maiva, application number 43007/97; and Mr Makhatu application number 4319/97.  And the final matter is that of the murder of Emely Makulane, the applicants are Mr Mulatsi, application number 3282/96.  The second applicant Mr Ramalata applicant number 3283/96 and the third applicant, Mr Matala, application number 3284/96.
	Thank you Honourable Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: With which matters are we going to proceed today?

MS PATEL: The matters that we can proceed with today Honourable Chairperson, involve the following victims Masithi; Netshivhumbe;  Mafulani;  Ralulimi;  Nemadandila.  That's the one application, and the second application relates to the victim Madadzhe and Maphaha.  Thank you Honourable Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Which application are we going to start with first?

MS PATEL: Honourable Chairperson with Masithi.

ADV DE JAGER: Incident number 2 on our list?

MS PATEL: That's correct Honourable Chairperson.

MR NDOU: We'd arranged for number 6 like we had agreed at lunch time, that we'll start with number 6.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou, what's the name of the applicant that you want to follow?

MR NDOU: Number 7356/97.

MS PATEL: Mr Van Rensburg is ready to proceed with the second incident as well, so it doesn't really matter Honourable Chairperson.

MS PATEL: Let's proceed with that.

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairperson, Honourable Members.  We are going to proceed with Application number 7356 and 6680, that is Mr Munyai and Mulaudzi and the matter pertains to the incident that occurred at Itsane and before you Mr Chairman is Mr Munyai.  He may be sworn in.

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: (sworn states)

MR NDOU: Mr Munyai, where do you reside?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I'm staying at Itsane.

MR NDOU: When were you born?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I was born in 1965 on the 25th of February.

MR NDOU: I see.  At the present moment, are you in prison?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes I'm in prison.

MR NDOU: What are you there for?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I'm there because of the murder which was committed by the community of where I'm staying.  That was on the 2nd of February 1990.

MR NDOU: I see, and now you've applied for amnesty, is that correct?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: Yes it's correct.

MR NDOU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  What sort of sentence are you serving at the prison?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: The sentence I was given was 46-years but that sentence was running concurrently, it's 20-years now.

MR NDOU: And what were you convicted of?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I was convicted of murder and arson.

MR NDOU: Could you explain to this Committee how it came about that this incident took place?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: On that day on the 2nd of February 1990, it happened that we were trying to recruit the school children and the other civilians of Itsane.  Then we requested people that on that day we must meet at 6 o'clock in the evening at the field or playground.  We were going to talk on what we can do in order to make the government which was ruling to fall because it was violating human rights.

ADV DE JAGER: We can't hear, you say: "We are doing this." Who were you and were you representing any organisation?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: At that time I was not a member of an organisation but I was just a supporter of the ANC.

MR NDOU: And with whom did you gather at this sportsfield as you say?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I gathered with the citizens and school children who were invited.

MR NDOU: Yes?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: While we were there, while we were still talking about what we can do in order to make the government fall one of us by the name of Thihanedzwi Tshikhudo then raised his hand trying to show us that here where we are in the villages,  if we want to do something, for example, if we want to find a solution to make the government fall it will be possible just like in Soweto where we can make rent boycotts for paying this and that but what we can do is to attack the people who are believed that they are participating in working with the people who were in the government, just for example by giving them medicine or muti.  A list was then made.

MR NDOU: How was this list drawn up?

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: I was one of the persons who was appointed on that day to be the leader of that meeting.

MR NDOU: Yes but how was the list drawn up and ...(intervention)

LANGANANI FOSTER MUNYAI: We drew the list in this way.  A person was expected to raise a hand and said that Maphaha and maybe Madadzhe, and then I just wrote on the names that people were mentioning on the list.

MR NDOU: Now what were the criteria used to determine these people.