Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Luthuli, we welcome you here today.  can you hear me through the earphones and understand me?

MRS LUTHULI: Not through the earphones.

COMMISSIONER: Maybe it's not on the right programme.  (Pause)  Is that better?  Can you hear me now?  Can you understand me?  Are you hearing anything?

MRS LUTHULI: I can hear you.

COMMISSIONER: Are you hearing my voice translated into Zulu?

MRS LUTHULI: I am speaking Zulu.

COMMISSIONER: The witness should be understanding me now in Zulu through the earphones.  Okay, do you hear me now, Mrs Luthuli?  Can you understand me?

MRS LUTHULI: Yes.

COMMISSIONER: Good.  Thank you very much.  Sorry about that.  You are from Umlazi township, but you have come to tell us today about experiences in Chesterville, where you were harassed and intimidated by members of the A-Team in Chesterville.  Before you give that evidence I'd like to ask you to stand please to take the oath.

MRS LUTHULI: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Dr Magwaza will now assist you with your evidence.

DR MAGWAZA: We greet you, Mrs Luthuli.  We thank you for having come here.  Even before you tell us about your story could you please relate about your family.  Tell us more about your family.

WITNESS:   I am sorry, I have got flu.  We grew up in Chesterville in Umkumbane.  That's where we stayed with my family.  But unfortunately or fortunately I never grew up in Umkumbane.  I was staying in the rural areas with my grandparents, who later died.  I had just finished my first year, and I grew up in an orphanage.  I went to school at the orphanage, and later on I came back to stay in Chesterville.  That is where I had got my uncle, because my father had been deceased at that time, and my mother had also been deceased.  That is where we got involved with my husband, who at that time was active, and also very close to Chief Luthuli from Groutville.  They were freedom fighters both of them.  They were very active in fighting for human rights.  At the time my uncle was not literate.  He always used to encourage me to read newspapers, and he encouraged me to read for him and translate or interpret, and he would later on tell me what was meant in those newspapers.  He made me somehow politically aware by reading newspapers.  And at that time I realised that we were an oppressed nation and I decided that I was going to be a community helper because I was against oppression and I was against harassment.

DR MAGWAZA: Even before you go on further just tell us about your family.  As you are staying in Umlazi together with your children how many children do you have?  Where is your husband?  Just give us a brief picture of your family.

WITNESS:   I got married to Mr Mkhize, and I was quite unfortunate because there were family fights.  They were fighting for inheritances, and my husband gave me a chance to take refuge together with my baby, and I flee with my baby.  At that time when I was away my husband was influenced or poisoned by his family and he died in 1975.

DR MAGWAZA: How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have only one child.  That is Mduduzi.  But now I do have a daughter who is handicapped.  I had adopted her after she was abandoned by her mother, so I have two children at this stage.

DR MAGWAZA: Just tell us briefly, and stick to your story to what happened.  Just give us a brief history as to what happened to you.

WITNESS:   The most difficult part of the story started in 1981.  That was in May the 1st.  That was when my sister died.  She died whilst staying at the rural areas, and I had to go and bury my sisters.  There are no mortuaries at the rural areas, and I got a telephone call that my sister had died and I got myself transport to go home and bury my sister.  I went and buried my sister.  I stayed there for about a week after having buried my sister.  She died on a Sunday.  I am sorry, it was on a Saturday and I was told on a Sunday, and I buried my sister on a Monday.  When I came back after having buried my sister I came back to Chesterville, and when I came back there was a lot of confusion, and I discovered that somebody in the family had been killed.  And I went to that person's house because we used to go to church together with that family, and we were quite close, and I wanted to go and see the family.

DR MAGWAZA: Could you please tell us as to who died, and how did he die?  What has he got to do with all this, because you say in 1985 there were many people who died, and they were being killed by the A-Team as well as the police.

WITNESS:   That is what I am coming to, because that's where the whole thing started.  It started when this person died in 1981, and after the death there was a lot of clashes, fights, as well as a lot of confusion in the residential area, because the person who was killed was killed by certain people who were not known.  Then in 1985 there was another fight that broke out.  I don't know how this fight started, but at the end of the day there was a certain bottle store, as well as a bar, which was burnt down and converted into a police station.  And police were staying there, and when the police started there it's then that people started dying.  The first one who died was a certain man from the Mthembu family, who was killed and was run down by a police van.  And at that time the person who was in charge was Commander Visagie.  After this little boy had been run over by the van we started asking ourselves as to what was happening in the community.  Within a week thereafter Phumu from Road Seven, KwaZamisa died.  Within a short while thereafter at Road One a Madonsela boy also died.  And now this became a usual occurrence that young men died in that area.  All of them were quite young.

DR MAGWAZA: Let me just interrupt you.  Who was killing these young men?

WITNESS:   They were being killed by certain people.  They would be surrounded or circles and they would be killed.  For instance the Madonsela boy, as well as the Zamisa young man, they were attacked.  Their house was surrounded, and whenever they tried to go out or escape they were shot on the spot.  I wouldn't know who was actually shooting them or killing them, but police were involved, as well as certain members of the community were working hand in hand with the police.

DR MAGWAZA: Are you referring to the A-Team when you say some people?