Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1997-02-24

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, thank you.  There is just one issue that I would want to raise 
now before I call Capt Mentz and that is that there was a meeting on Friday between myself, Mr Britz, Mr 
Mpshe and Mr Currin pertaining to documents to be used during these trials.
	I requested both gentlemen to provide us with documents in their possession.  I requested Mr 
Mpshe to provide me with documents in his possession pertaining to any of these applications.	I 
wanted to get hold of those documents beforehand so I can take it up with my clients and have knowledge 
of what the documents entail.
	I also requested Mr Currin to provide me with any documents in his possession which are, we 
discussed it,
which are of evidentiary nature and which he would want to
use in cross-examination of any of the applicants.  He gave me an indication that he will provide me with 
such documents and I accept that he will do so.
	The only reason why I am raising this point now and I want to place this simply on record Mr 
Chairman, that I made such a request, is that the moment any documents come about or are introduced into 
evidence which have not been provided to the applicants in terms of that request and arrangement, 
I want to place on record now that I am going to object 
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<UNKNOWN>: against such documents, that I will ask for an adjournment to study the documents, to take it up with my 
clients if the Committee will allow me to, and that that is the case. 
	I want to place that on record now and the reason why I do so is that Mr Mpshe mentioned when 
he addressed you that he was in possession of statements of people who were on the premises or who 
arrived at the body of Mr Tsele later, afterwards.  I didn't understand him hundred percent correctly - I don't 
know if he is in possession  of statements or if he had seen statements or whatever. 	
	Now it is not something that has prejudiced my clients, I am not going to make an issue of that at 
this stage but in any event in respect of this application, in respect of Mr Tsele, but what I want to do is I 
want to place this on record, so that if a document comes up later on in any application that I am not 
prejudiced.

HASSAN MALL: Well, that shouldn't present any difficulties.  Up to now your applicants have not been 
cross-examined on the contents of any documents.
	Mr Currin, you have given an undertaking that you will 
make documents available?

MR CURRIN: That is correct and I certainly would do so.  My learned friend overlooked to mention 
that he'd given a similar undertaking.

HASSAN MALL: No, right now I am not interested in that debate.  I want to know whether that can be 
done as soon as possible.

MR CURRIN: It certainly can Sir.

HASSAN MALL: Right.  Thank you very much.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  May I call Captain Mentz?
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HASSAN MALL: Yes please.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

ADV DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, thank you.  In respect of Captain Mentz, he 
hasn't given evidence in respect of any application before this Committee.  He has set out a general 
background at the beginning of his application, starting at page 5.	I would want with the 
Committee's permission that he is not required to read this out to the Committee into the record, but that 
this be accepted as part of his evidence.  That would be from page 5 until page 24 and that deals with the 
following aspects
	His career, his functions at Unit C1, Vlakplaas, the structure of command, the way operations 
worked at Vlakplaas, that is page 8, in respect of weapons that was used, page 9.  Then the question of 
racism, page 11.  The effect of these actions, also page 11.	The destruction of documents, page 12 
and then specifically on page 12, the psychological evaluation.  You will see that as Annexure A an 
evaluation of him by a psychiatrist was attached.  It is not the psychiatrist that I am going to use in 
presenting evidence pertaining to his condition, but it is a similar report.	Then the general background 
about the struggle and then you will see on page 20 he refers to informants, page 21, the death of activists.  
On page 22, he deals with propaganda and then on page 24, he also deals with reconciliation.
	If you would allow me, I would request Captain Mentz to read to you the last paragraph on page 
24.

UNKNOWN: I am no longer sure today whether the things which I did, the things which I 
believed was in the interest PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/

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UNKNOWN: of South Africa and of the country. I am unhappy about the loss sustained by family members of victims 
and I hope that my revelations in this regard will lead to reconciliation amongst all South Africans.
	I am proud to be a citizen of the new South Africa and would like to put the past behind me.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  May I proceed with the witness?

HASSAN MALL: That is right.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain, before we continue with the application with regard to Mr Ngqulunga, 
what is the nature of the psychological care that you are receiving?  Do you still receive psychological 
care?

UNKNOWN: This is the case.

ADV DU PLESSIS: For how long have you been receiving such psychological therapy?

UNKNOWN: For approximately three years, Mr Chairman.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Does this therapy include treatment for post-traumatic stress?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is the case.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Mentz, could you briefly sketch the main events in your career just so 
that the Committee would have a brief overview.

UNKNOWN: ;	Mr Chairman, in 1977, December I joined the South African Police Force.   In 1980 I 
was stationed at Brooklyn Detective Branch in Pretoria, subsequently I was transferred to Murder and 
Robbery Squad in Pretoria.
	While serving at Murder and Robbery I operated on occasion with the Security Branch, Northern 
Transvaal.  While in service at Murder and Robbery, I arrested Mr Nofomela who was attached to 
Vlakplaas Unit C10.  This is 
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UNKNOWN: how I came in contact with the members of C1, Eugene de Kock and how I was transferred to Vlakplaas.
	That was during August of 1989.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain, are you still a member of the Force?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I am a serving member of the Force.

ADV DU PLESSIS: When did the Vlakplaas Unit disband?

UNKNOWN: If my memory does not fail me I believe it was during 1991.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You do mention on page 7 of your application, November 1992, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

ADV DU PLESSIS: You were then transferred to the Unit for protected species in Pretoria, is that 
where you are still attached?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is where I am attached at this time.

ADV DU PLESSIS: When did you come in contact with Nofomela?  When did you arrest 
Nofomela and come into contact with Vlakplaas?

UNKNOWN: It must have been during the time that I was attached to Murder and Robbery.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Yes, but what year?

UNKNOWN: If you allow me a moment ...

ADV DU PLESSIS: If you look at page 6, Captain Mentz at the top, you will notice that you were 
transferred to Unit C1, Security Headquarters, Vlakplaas on this particular date.

UNKNOWN: It was during August of 1988 when I became involved with the members of C1.

ADV DU PLESSIS: Captain Mentz, on page 6 you say in the 
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UNKNOWN: third paragraph, could you read this paragraph to the Committee?