Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-05-13

N JACK MENERA: I just want to explain this to the Committee so that you understand perfectly well.  We were the Matemasu Youth Congress and we engaged in consumer boycotts and we would discuss it among ourselves that we are not going to buy in town for a certain period until our demands are met. What was happening and during this consumer boycott, when people were at work, we would have members of the youth to stand at the gate where we know is a passing point for everybody who was going to town, and we would make it a point that every person who comes from town doesn't have anything in his possession that he has bought in town. Any car that was coming from the town would be stopped and we searched it.  But Mr Morgan Phelane's car and the car belonging to his son, Edward Phelane, they would not stop, even if we requested them to stop. Even a person who wanted to buy would do that freely knowing that he will be given a lift because that car won't be searched.  Mr Phelane knew very well our intentions.
	In other words, Mr Morgan Phelane was not happy at all about our activities.  He was also involved in the politics and he knew very well that consumer boycott was a strategy used by the ANC to cripple the De Klerk Government but himself, Mr Morgan Phelane showed the public that he was against the freedom of the people.
	One day the school kids were marching, they were marching from the school into the township.  I am not sure as to the direction they were marching to, I don't know where they were really going to, I'm sorry.  It happened that as they were marching from the school, his son's car approached, that is Morgan Phelane, and it was driving at a very high speed and it went to the marchers but the children were very careful, they saw it from far away and they managed to jump out of the road because they realised that this car was speeding and there was a possibility that it would never stop. And it was known that the driver of the car was against the song the kids were singing.
	When this gangster heard the slogans or the people toyi-toyi'ing, they would harass the youth and they would start violence and at the end of the slogan there would be fighting. All these activities were done by Mr Phelane's gangster. As the self defence units of Brandfort we also realised that these people are going too far, we have to take a step to counteract what they were doing in the community and truly we came together as the self defence unit and we planned how to kill them.  That is the gangster and including its leadership, like Mr Morgan Phelane.

UNKNOWN: In the trial during which you gave evidence before sentence was passed, there you referred to an underground structure of the Youth League as having decided on what action had to be taken.

N JACK MENERA: You were too fast Sir, I was still on my way to explain that. We elected people in the self defence unit whom we called underground structure.  We were going to elect a person we know very well and a person we know his activities.  It was during those difficult times, you wouldn't get into a hall and call a mass meeting and tell people that day, listen today we're going to burn a certain person. You'd never do that in the past, that is why we had this underground structure to come and co-ordinate and work underground. In other words you were not supposed to see what I was going to do to you, and you were not going to be in a position to understand anything that we were going to do in future.  Now this underground structure met and they realised that we have to kill Mr Morgan Phelane, we have to kill Susan Phelane, Edward Phelane and his gangsters. The person who was on top of the list was the person that he passed away, Rabela Mutsi and a certain Mr Obuta, I think he is among us as we are talking now.  He is one of those people who we deemed that they were an obstacle and the people were not going to achieve their freedom while these people were still present.
	Now we had to remove this obstacle so that the people can move forward because there was nothing that the people in Brandfort could do while the group that I've mentioned to was still present because they were the obstacle.  I am explaining that the same gangsters are still fighting as now, they are still fighting the comrades of the township, even today there are still comrades who go to the charge office to lay charges against these gangsters. As I'm talking to you now this still continues.

UNKNOWN: Mr Menera tell us now about the circumstances surrounding the death of Mrs Phelane.

N JACK MENERA: Right I am going straight to that.  I already said that as the underground structure we sat together and planned, Mr Morgan Phelane, Susan Phelane and Edward Phelane and his gangster Bhuto Rabamutsi and them were supposed to be removed from the society and we agreed as the group of the underground structure of the ANC.  We left on the 14th of July in 1991, we went to the shop where we knew that Mr Phelane and Susan Phelane, they were always in that shop. We didn't have a doubt.

UNKNOWN: But Mr Menera it will help us a lot and everyone else and you in particular, if you could give your opinions in an unemotional way so that we can follow your flow of thought and understand you. We are being taxed a little bit too much in trying to follow your flow of thought. Now why was a decision taken to kill these people. We must first know why it was so decided and if a decision was taken, where, by whom and then lead us nicely in a step by step fashion to the ultimate point.  Now we're starting as to the reason why these people had to be attacked.

N JACK MENERA: The first reason, according to our knowledge and the education that we were given, or the instruction that we were given by the same person Mr Phelane, this is what we knew.  If you were a member of the organisation at the time of the struggle, if I was to resign from the ANC, Mr Phelane taught us that the person who is resigning will have to be eradicated from the community, he would have to be killed because he's a sell-out. This is a lesson that we received from the same Mr Phelane.  Now his teachings got into our heads, everything he taught us was practised and we were doing in turn what he taught us to do.
	I have explained that there are policemen who (end of tape)...and that their houses were burned Mr Phelane knew very well and he knew indeed and I am sure...(intervention).

UNKNOWN: I appreciate your explanation and the teachings the lectures you received from Mr Phelane, now tell us why these people were to be attacked?

N JACK MENERA: Let us first talk about the issue of councillors.  We saw councillors as people working for an apartheid structure.  Now when you were a councillor you were an informer and it was a well-known thing that an informer was to be burned. That is the reason for Mr Phelane and his wife Susan.
	Let's now consider Edward Phelane.  Edward is the organiser of this gangster that was terrorising the people in the township. I've explained that we took a decision that these people have to be eradicated because of their activities.  The ANC couldn't go anywhere and it couldn't do anything in the presence of this gangster, that is the reason we reached a conclusion to remove them from our way. They were blocking the community way.
	Can I now carry on and tell you how the attacks were?

UNKNOWN: You must first tell us where was the decision taken, under what circumstances and by whom?

N JACK MENERA: There is no person within the ANC that we can say, this is  the decision-maker. Even the State President Mr Mandela, he doesn't take decisions on his own.  Within the ANC we sit down and discuss the issues. Everyone takes out hid programmes and you are the Commission and you are 10 in number, if you are six...(intervention)