Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

WHITE MOHAPE: I am saying this thing, because in the same evidence of Ngo in court it showed that the State, the evidence that was put was a cooked evidence and that was done by some people and I will say, yes, his handlers they did that, because even when I was detained, when I was arrested for that incident, when I was at Bloemspruit I was fetched from Bloemspruit by van Dyk, Ben and others and they took me to Bhato Police Station where a group of them, Erasmus, Coetzee and the rest were there and, yes, they had a relationship with the investigating officers and I will say also why I am saying this thing.  At the time when I was told to go and point the place where I was, you know, where they were beating me up, that Major, he was the investigating officer on this thing of the kidnapping, he was Major Kriel or Kruger, something of that sort, he took me at Folks Way, I went to meet him at Folks Way.  I want to  show you how people are.
	I went to Folks Way, he said to me he is going to arrange a parade where I can point those policemen if I happen to see them.  The day when I went there at Folks Way he, I came with my lawyer.  He then said to me, no, no, I cannot do that today, because all security branch members today are under examination of some sort, our inspection,  therefore you cannot be able to go and identify them.  You will then, maybe we will then arrange some time for you to do that.  Later on he said I must go and show him the spot where they were beating me up, but he took me there, to that spot, at past five and past five at that time it was going, it was already, you know, going to the evening. 
	I went to that spot, I could not see a thing, because he wanted, he was asking me if I can see the cartridge of the gun they used and I could not see it, because it was already at evening at the time when he took me to that spot.  That is why I am saying, yes, the court case at that time, it has been a crooked, everything that was done in that case.

MR VISSER: What precise evidence was crooked?

WHITE MOHAPE: I think the evidence of Ngo saying I stabbed him and the neurotic sequence of the stabbing.  A person standing in the middle being stabbed at the back, turning to look at who is stabbing him, somebody stabbing him this side, turning to look who is stabbing him this side, somebody stabbing him, you know, it was a crooked evidence, because it was merely showing that it was meant to, you know, for me to be charged and found guilty out of evidence that was crooked and if they are honest, this, all the security branch who have been involved in those things, they will honestly say, yes, those things happened and, perhaps, we can talk otherwise.

MR VISSER: Mr Mohape, I have asked you know in, what evidence was crooked and what you are referring to is ... (intervention).

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes.

MR VISSER: ... the evidence which Ngo gave.

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes.

MR VISSER: But you also added just now, having been prompted from the Committee, that this was cooked by his handlers.

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes, I believe so.

MR VISSER: Why do you say that?

WHITE MOHAPE: Because I know what they have been doing at that time.

MR VISSER: No, but give us concrete evidence, an example  of why you say so, not just speculation.  Why do you say so?

WHITE MOHAPE: You know why I think they said so?  Ngo, at that time when he was, after he has been stabbed, he was still working with them and working with Erasmus, they were able to prepare him for that case.  That is why I am saying, yes.

MR VISSER: So it is speculation?

WHITE MOHAPE: Perhaps, you may take it, like, that way.

MR VISSER: Is there any other reason upon which you base your opinion that the handlers of Ngo cooked the case against you?

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes, because they have for a long time wanted to get rid of me.  They have so many times arrested me and that in itself, it really showed me that they had everything in their power that they wanted to do to get rid of me.

MR VISSER: Did you lay a charge after you were, let us call it, abducted?

WHITE MOHAPE: Yes, I laid a charge.

MR VISSER: Can you remember who the investigating officer was in that case?

WHITE MOHAPE: After I laid a charge I had to go to school, I went to Western Cape.

MR VISSER: No, no, no that is not the question.

WHITE MOHAPE: No, no, I want to tell you.  At that time when I laid, I laid a charge at the police station saying, Bayswater Police Station and before I went to Cape Town no policeman, or what is his name, investigating officer, came to me and said to me, let me not mistake this one.  The person who investigated that is the one that I am saying Kruger, the one who was coming to me and say I must go and show him the places and it is the one who was investigating that case ... (intervention).

MR VISSER: Was the ...

WHITE MOHAPE: ... and after that I went to Cape Town.

MR VISSER: Was the investigating officer not a person by the name of Terreblanche?  Sorry, I withdraw that, I am told I am wrong, Mr Chairman.  May I just ... (intervention).

WHITE MOHAPE: You will always be wrong.

MR VISSER: May I just check on the record, I think there is a reference on the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Which record are you referring to?

MR VISSER: I am referring to our record, Mr Chairman.  In fact, the evidence of that abduction, I was just going to refer you to it, is in, Mr Ngo's evidence and it commences at page 68 of the record.  It then continues up to page 84,  actually 83.  So, for your information, Mr Chairman, from page 68 of the record to page 83 you will find the evidence of Mr Ngo in cross-examination on this whole issue of Mr White Mohape.
	I do not want to waste your time, I will check it tonight, Mr Chairman.  I have the investigating officer's name somewhere.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this the only bit?  I had a recollection and this is maybe what I have read, that I had read something further about this stabbing of Mr Ngo by White and I wondered whether we, have we got amongst all the other papers we have got, any extract from the court proceedings.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I was busy checking it in the lunch time, but, unfortunately, I ran out of time.  It took too long.  I will, my attorney and myself will, I promise you, go tonight and find all the relevant references.
	There was, of course, the evidence in-chief of Mr Ngo ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR VISSER: ... and there was a very brief reference to Mr White Mohape in relationship to this particular incident in the evidence of Mr Motsamai, because you will remember that Mr Ngo implicated Motsamai as having been part of the attack whilst Motsamai denied it.  So, the real evidence is to be found in Ngo's evidence and, as you stated, Mr Chairman, there are other bundles, loose bundles, which we will have to go through.
	I may tell you, Mr Chairman, also that we have attempted to obtain a record of the proceedings of that trial and we have not been successful.  We have attempted to obtain the docket.  Somehow I thought it was a Mr Terreblanche, but anyway, I will check the name, the docket, but the person who was the investigating officer has become deceased and, unfortunately, we have not been able to trace the docket either.  We were very keen to have an affidavit which was in the docket of Mr Mohape, but we have not been able to track it down.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.