Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-02

A J G ERWEE: When the question was put to him he didn't answer immediately.   It took quite a while because he sometimes lost consciousness. He would come to again and mutter things and then the answer would come.
	As I said, I was compelled to call the Army medic to come and give the injured person an injection in order to stabilise him. After he lost consciousness again and I realised that the person was critical and could die, and that he was of great value to us, I gave instructions that the person should be taken to Alldays immediately.  I knew that there was a hospital or clinic there.  At that stage I realised that the helicopter transporting Capt Bourne had already left and had already been airborne for some 10 to 15 minutes, and it certainly would not be able to turn back.  I was satisfied that the vehicle would be sufficient transport to get the man away.
	I can't remember who I gave the specific instruction to, but I can't imagine that I would have given the instruction to remove this wounded person to somebody other than somebody from Messina or Louis Trichardt, one of the security branch members, because Alldays and vicinity would not be that familiar for us who came from Pietersburg. We were not quite sure where the clinic was.  So unfortunately I can't remember exactly.  It was later said to me, and I quote what was said to me, that Warrant-Officer Gerber conveyed the wounded person and that some of the deceased were also in the same vehicle which went to Alldays.

UNKNOWN: So that was the only vehicle left over, that was the bakkie?

A J G ERWEE: As far as I can recall.

UNKNOWN: And the deceased and this wounded person were transported in this bakkie?  Is that, this Gerber, is that this Theuns Gerber who is now deceased, who was later shot dead by people?  Is that the person you referred to?

A J G ERWEE: Yes. I deemed it necessary to clear up the terrain very quickly because the road was used as a public road and it would not be healthy ... It would not be a good thing for the people in the vicinity who were already living in a state of fear as a result of insurgents to have their fears further exacerbated by seeing a shot-up vehicle and to see corpses in the road and so forth.  So if I remember correctly, the scene was cleared up within an hour or less and everything was removed from it and we all then proceeded to Alldays.
	When we arrived at Alldays I reported to Van Dyk, Kruger and Fuchs and I appointed them to handle all the equipment and all the information, exactly what was found on each body or corpse.  Something that I forgot to mention is that when I sent Capt Dreyer to go and phone, he also had to summons a fingerprint expert and a photographer to Alldays to photograph the corpses and also to take the fingerprints of the deceased for later identification purposes.
	Whilst Capt Fuchs and I were interrogating the injured person, Col Van Dyk, who was my intelligence man, and who was appointed to make notes for the later incident report, I noticed that he had a tape-recorder with him and I assume that in a bona fide way that he taped this very incoherent interrogation. I did not find it strange that a recording was made of the questioning, because a security force member had a tape-recorder with him most of the time. I think it was interviews with informers, et cetera, which sometimes had to be taped if notes could not be taken. 
	I didn't listen to the tape later.  I didn't think it was necessary for me to listen to that because I handled this questioning personally and in any event, there wasn't much to it for me to remember, and that was the reason why I had no serious interest in the tape.
	At Alldays I gave Dreyer and Swart instructions that they should deal with the inquest.  I also told them how they should deal with this inquest docket, and I made notes to make it clear to the Commission what I based my instructions on at that time. And if the Commission would allow me, I would like to make use of my notes.

UNKNOWN: Please continue.

A J G ERWEE: At that stage ... (intervention).

ADV DE JAGER: May I just get clarification, are those notes which you made at the time or which you have made now to be able to give evidence now or are these notes which you made contemporaneously with the incident?