Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-14

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.  I know the dates because indeed this incident to which you are referring, was the last incident before my arrest and I was arrested in the same year in 1993, there is no any other incident beyond that.  It was actually the last one in my hit squad operations, and therefore I know that it was on the night of June 1993.

MR WILLS: Sorry, if the Committee will just bear with me for a moment.  This, you have explained to the Committee earlier in your evidence what the problem was as regards Sergeant Dhlamini and by that I refer to the fact that it was alleged that he was supplying information to the Goldstone Commission and that was partly the reason why he was killed.
	I would like you to, sorry before going into that incident, I want you to just briefly go through the occurrences of that evening, prior to that which involved the murder of the four persons at Gundani Shezi's Shibeen and then go on to tell the Committee about the circumstances surrounding the death of Sergeant Dhlamini.

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Can I please explain this.  Nobody died at Gundani's Shibeen.   People died at Paul Ngema's Shibeen, not at Gundani's Shibeen.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, whose shibeen?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: They died at Paul Ngema's shibeen at J1 section.

MR WILLS: Yes, sorry Mr Chairperson, I must withdraw my question.  I had in fact made a mistake, the events comments at Gundani's shibeen and then later on four people were killed at Paul Ngema's shibeen.  That is correct.
	Can you describe the circumstances in which those four persons were killed to the best of your knowledge?  I know that you weren't directly involved in this incident, and you were originally tried, as you have been alleged to have been involved in this incident, but you were indeed acquitted, but as far as you know what happened to those four persons, at that shibeen.

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: On the night of the date referred to, I was at Gundani Shezi's place, H2 section.  I used to go there sometimes either for information or I would sometimes go there, sit down and drink.
	As I was doing that, as usual, one person by the name of Nmbula said you think we are fools, we don't know what you are.  We know exactly what you are, you cannot fool us.
	You mislead us.  We know how dangerous you are to us, and you make yourself a brave person by coming to our place.  We started arguing, because I, myself, had already taken some few beers and we quarrelled and we ended up fighting literally, by fists.
	He is quite a hefty person, maybe heftier than I am.  He too, was drunk.  The problem started, I had my 9 mm pistol and I saw everybody now coming forward as if they were surrounding me.
	I rushed to withdraw my pistol and everybody had now their hands on my pistol, which was still in my body.  There was a struggle with my gun, which ultimately came out of my holster, and as the barrel of the pistol faced up, I don't know what happened exactly, but there was somebody who pulled the trigger.
	A bullet went off, but fortunately the barrel had faced up.  I would not just let go of my gun like that, and everybody stepped away, frightened by the gunfire.  I took the pistol and threw it to a boy who was called Skedi and I threw the pistol to him.  Skedi received the pistol and I hit Membula with my fist.  He hit me back, I fell face up.
	I picked myself up and I was now fighting with fear because I knew that I was all alone there, all these people were within the same group.  I was hesitant to hit him properly with my fist, because if I did so, I feared I might end up in trouble.
	What annoyed me, what really annoyed me was that I realised that the people who were trying to set us apart, were actually not trying to separate us.  And as I was being separated, they were giving Membula a chance to hit me, which he did.
	I got furious because ... (tape ends) ... I left the place and Gundani made his car available to take me home, and somebody was provided to drive me home.
	There was also a lady with whom we used to have a fling, and I did not want to give them any indication that I was furious.  I was actually so furious about the fact that they were pretending to help and yet they were not.  I now had these bulges, a bulging face and I knew that the person would not beat me if there were two of us.
	On arriving at my place, I spoke to Ali.  He has a green Skyline.  I requested him to take me to J2 to Romeo.  He took me together with this lady who was to be dropped at HY where she resided.
	We went to Romeo's place.  What God in heaven has written is such that it is known that I did not go to Romeo's place to accompany me back so that we can shoot the people.  It is known that every man who gets beaten, can get angry.  I only went to Romeo so that I too can have my own people and Membula already had his own people, and we should be given a chance as men, so that we can fight using our own fists.
	Also I had a chance to shoot Membula at the time, but I took the pistol which was loaded and threw it to Skedi who received it and I proceeded fighting with my fists.
	I did not try to shoot him.   I then arrived at Romeo's place in J2, I knocked, they opened the door.  I then told them about the whole story.  I then asked them to return with me to this place, because I wasn't afraid of this person and he wouldn't really defeat me, but I was also tipsy.

MR WILLS: Sorry, Mr Mkhize, I just want to try and, we've got a lot to get through today, I want to get through some of the evidence a bit more quickly.  I think it is common cause that you eventually ended up with Romeo and Israel and Andile at Paul Ngema's shibeen which was next door to Membula's house, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: And then you jumped over the wall to enter Membula's house in order to deal with this embarrassment that you had suffered earlier on in the evening, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, I was at the time looking for Membula.
	I went to look for him in his brother's house, whose house is opposite Paul Ngema's shibeen.

MR WILLS: Yes, and while you were in the house dealing with Membula, you heard gunshots being fired, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, I heard gunshots whilst I was still inside the house with Membula.

MR WILLS: You came back out of the house because the gunshots were close and you established on talking to Mr Mbambo and Hlongwane that they had in fact eventually killed this person who you knew as Mbanda.  Is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is the truth.

MR WILLS: And in addition to that you established that they had also killed the three persons who were with Mbanda, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: Is it not also true that all of these persons were armed, these deceased persons and that you took their weapons, or shall I rather say Mr Mbambo and Mr Hlongwane disarmed them and stole their weapons, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: From what I heard, I think it was Mbanda who had an AK47 and two of them had pistols, but one of them was not armed.

MR WILLS: And those weapons were taken by either Mr Mbambo or Mr Hlongwane, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you decided for whatever reason to continue that night and proceed to Sergeant Dhlamini's home, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: Can you explain to the Committee what occurred at Sergeant Nhlamini's home?