Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-10

MR SNYMAN: Col Goosen attempted to speak to Mr Biko and probably also determined that the interrogation could not continue.  He then told me that the interrogation had to provisionally be brought to an end.

MR BOOYENS: Were you present when Goosen spoke to him?  What was the response evoked from him by Goosen?

MR SNYMAN: No response.

MR BOOYENS: Goosen then instructed you to bring the interrogation to an end?  The deceased at that time was still chained to the metal grille as described by you;  was he then unchained or was he left there?

MR SNYMAN: He was left chained there.

MR BOOYENS: On whose instructions.

MR SNYMAN: On the instructions of Col Goosen.

MR BOOYENS: When Goosen instructed you to end the interrogation, did you give any instructions to the other members present,  the members of your investigative team?

MR SNYMAN: My instruction was that they had to take careful note whether his situation changed, his state changed so that we could continue with the interrogation.

MR BOOYENS: To whom did you give this instruction?

MR SNYMAN: To Niewoudt and Marx and Beneke.

MR BOOYENS: The interpreter believes that the person also said "and Beneke", but could not hear clearly.
	What was your next action?

MR SNYMAN: After having given this instruction to the other members, I received instructions from Col Goosen that I had to go to Baken Street Police Station to make a note of the injury to the detainee.

MR BOOYENS: Let's return to your instructions.  You say that they had to come and tell you if there was any improvement on the part of Mr Biko?  Did they at any stage report to you that the interrogation could be continued?

MR SNYMAN: No, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: That was on the 6th, the 7th or the 8th?

MR SNYMAN: On the 7th I was informed by the members again who then told me that there had been no change in his well-being.

MR BOOYENS: Also on the 6th they did not give any information to you?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Can you recall whether during the course of the 6th, subsequent to having given these instructions to the members, whether you saw the detainee again or the deceased again?

MR SNYMAN: At a later stage I went to him with Col Goosen again, but in the meantime I withdrew under the instructions of Col Goosen.

MR BOOYENS: For clarity's sake you say that you again went to him with Goosen;  was that on the occasion when you and Goosen went to speak to him or was there a subsequent occasion?

MR SNYMAN: No, it was that first occasion.

MR BOOYENS: So you did not again see him on the 6th?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Did you give any instructions that he had to be unchained from the metal gate or was he left in that position.

MR SNYMAN: He was left in that position.  Col Goosen also said that he would then take over the entire matter from then onwards.

MR BOOYENS: Did you see the deceased on the 7th?

MR SNYMAN: I was informed of his situation.  It was reported to me that there had been no change.

MR BOOYENS: Were you in an office on the same floor as that in which the interrogation room was where the detainee was kept?

MR SNYMAN: No, we were on the fifth floor.  The detainee was interrogated on the sixth floor.

MR BOOYENS: Did you make any arrangements for medical treatment of the deceased or do you bear any knowledge of efforts to bring medical attention to the deceased?

MR SNYMAN: I reported to Col Goosen what had occurred with a view that he would take the necessary steps to provide for a medical investigation or medical treatment.

MR BOOYENS: Do you have any personal knowledge whether the deceased had been visited by a doctor?

MR SNYMAN: I had heard that he was visited by a doctor on the 7th.

MR BOOYENS: So you had heard that a doctor visited him on the 7th and would that have been the district surgeon?

MR SNYMAN: It would have been the district surgeon.

MR BOOYENS: Did you have anything to do with the deceased subsequently?

MR SNYMAN: No, not after that day.

MR BOOYENS: You do know that on the evening of the 8th, or did you hear that he was removed to the prison on the evening of the 8th?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: It is also known, possibly for the sake of completeness, did you visit him at the prison at any stage?

MR SNYMAN: No, Your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: You have mentioned that there was an entry made by yourself in the occurrence book?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, Your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Although this is a photocopy, but it's in the witnesses' handwriting.  The original is obviously nowhere to be found.  This is documents that we obtained with the courtesy of my friend, Mr Mpshe.
	I'm showing you a copy of a document.  Do you recognise the handwriting there on?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Gee net vir my die getikte afskrif.  Your Honour, with your permission, we have an illegible copy and I will ask the witness to read this into the record, but I do want to give typed copies of that which will now be read to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, does it form part of the record at present?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It is not in the bundle, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: It is not in the bundle?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It is not.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  What is this document headed or what is it called?

MR BOOYENS: It's a - Mr Chairman, it's a photostat of an occurrence book, occurrence book entry at the Bakenstraat Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR BOOYENS: What you have got in front of you at this stage, is
a typed copy of what will be read out now, due to the fact that it's not very legible.  I hope I can guarantee the accuracy of what you are reading Mr Chairman, but if you see the handwriting, that guarantee certainly is not hundred per cent.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  This will be EXHIBIT C.
EXHIBIT C HANDED IN

MR BOOYENS: The document in front of you, please look at the photocopy of the occurrence book.  Is that in your handwriting?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, Your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Would that have been an entry number 633?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: The time is 10:44?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: Or 10:45, when was this entry made?  When was this entry made?

MR SNYMAN: On the 8th, Your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Could you perhaps indicate, to the best of your knowledge, you have a typed copy of the copy of the original entry.  Have you compared these and in your view, is this an accurate transcription of the original handwritten document?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Could you perhaps read out what is written there?

MR SNYMAN: "Injury article 6(a) detainee.
Maj Snyman reports that on 7/9/79 at about 07:00 he and Siebert and Beneke at the security offices in Sanlam offices  interrogated Steven Bantu Biko.  The detainee was extremely arrogant, went berserk, took one of the chairs in the office and threw it at Snyman.  With his fists he then stormed at the other members and the other members overwhelmed him.  After a violent struggle, he fell with his head against the wall and with his body on the floor and in this process he received injuries on the lip and body.  Warrant-Officer Beneke received an elbow injury and nonetheless did not go off duty.  The district surgeon was informed and visited the detainee."
And then my signature appears.

MR BOOYENS: Is that in fact your signature that appears on the copy of the handwritten entry?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct.

MR BOOYENS: The entry is in your handwriting, but there are corrections in a another handwriting.  The word "injury" and the word "service" was changed.  Whose handwriting would that have been?

MR SNYMAN: I do not know.

MR BOOYENS: Would you confirm that this was your entry?

MR SNYMAN: That is correct, your Honour.

MR BOOYENS: Could I ask leave to hand in the photocopy of the occurrence book then as I presume C - C1?
EXHIBIT C1 HANDED IN