Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

MR HUGO: Yes.  Yes, that's exactly what you testified, and you said you lied in the Harms Commission when you said that you saw Mr de Kock shooting Maponya.  That's exactly what you said.  Can you remember that?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, I said so.

MR HUGO: And let me just put it further to you.  Is it clear, or is it correct that whilst you were in jail awaiting the death penalty, a message was sent to you that de Kock says "Look, you killed a farmer and you must ma take the pain" and you were very cross and livid about that?  Can you remember that?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, I still remember that.

MR HUGO: And during the criminal trial you also testified about a letter that you sent to Mr de Kock whilst he was still awaiting trial and he was still kept in custody at the Adriaan Vlok Police Station, where you said to Mr - where you wrote to Mr de Kock "Well, now it's your turn to take the pain".  Can you remember that?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, I can still remember that very well.

MR HUGO: Yes.  Now let me just put it to you that it's clear that you certainly have a very strong vendetta against Mr de Kock and you would do anything possible to try and rope him in into incidents and activities where he wasn't involved.  Would you deny that?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, I had vendetta.  Yes, that is true.

MR HUGO: And you felt so strongly about that, that you would actually lie just to make sure Mr de Kock gets involved in criminal activities and offences, alleged offences, that he didn't commit.

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Not in everything.  I did not lie about everything, I only lied about Maponya's shooting, I did not smear him about everything.

MR HUGO: Now when did you make your statement to the Attorney-General for the first time, with the view of testifying in the criminal trial against Mr de Kock?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I cannot remember, Sir.

MR HUGO: Can you remember the circumstance, who actually consulted with you and who took the statement down?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: A lot of people.  I cannot remember when and where and who was the person.

MR HUGO: Yes.  But this was done before the criminal trial even started, they consulted beforehand with you, is that correct?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, that is correct, Sir.

MR HUGO: Now before I ask you that question, can I just ask you a question that I should have asked you, and that is, when you testified in the Harms Commission proceedings, why didn't you mention this Chesterville incident and the fact that Mr de Kock gave the instruction for these people to be killed?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I was not sure at the time about Lamontville and Chesterville, I was just mixing the two townships.  I was not sure whether it was Lamontville or Chesterville, therefore I had a problem of identifying the real place and my memory was not well at the time, I was a bit confused.

MR HUGO: Are you saying that your memory is actually now better than what it was about nine years ago?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I can say in a way, if I am calm and relaxed, not under the knowledge that I was awaiting death sentence, there was a lot of things that were happening, but now I'm calm and relaxed.  At the time I couldn't think straight because of the situations that were prevailing at the time, as I was awaiting death sentence.

MR HUGO: Yes.  I'm still not sure as to what your answer was, or your reasoning behind the fact that you didn't testify about this Chesterville incident during the Harms Commission.  What was your answer or your explanation?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I said it is because I was mixing - I was not sure which one was it, which township was it between Lamontville and Chesterville.  Therefore I was not sure.

MR HUGO: And then you decided look, you'd rather give that a miss altogether, you won't even testify about this most serious incident.  Is that what made you decide not to do that?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: It is not to say I did not want to mention it, but as I have already explained that I was not a position to think thoroughly or straight as I was also mentioning Lamontville instead of Chesterville.  That is a proof that I was not in a position to think straight.

MR HUGO: Now let's take it one step further.  Did you testify, or did you make a statement to the Attorney-General about the Chesterville matter, prior to Mr de Kock's criminal trial?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I do not remember, Sir, because when I was summoned by the Attorney-General, it was for the Maponya case, not Chesterville incident.

MR HUGO: Yes, but didn't you tell the Attorney-General, look there's this other very serious matter where people were killed and de Kock gave the instruction, please let me tell you about that and let's see if we can put together a further charge against Mr de Kock?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I am not sure that I would testify about something that I was not called for.  I was called for only Mr Maponya's incident, therefore I could not mention anything that was not asked, or something that was not called for.

MR HUGO: And maybe I'm going a bit out of sequence now, but the day before you were to be executed and hung, did you tell the Legal Resources Centre or a similar organisation, about the Chesterville matter?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: No, I do not remember telling anyone anything when I do not remember.

MR HUGO: Now Mr Nofomela, can I just ask you.  Why, if you had this information, did you not testify at the inquest after the Chesterville incident?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: I could not invite myself for the inquest without being invited.  How would I do that?  Even now, for me to come here I had to make an application, therefore I couldn't apply for inquest.  Even here I had to apply and I was called, therefore I couldn't just go and attend the inquest without being invited.

MR HUGO: But surely you could have told the investigating officer, look you were also involved in this operation and you have information and you were, amongst other people, at the bridge?  Couldn't you just tender that information to the investigating officer?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Even till today I don't even know that person.  What was I supposed to do, where?  I didn't even know where to go and who to talk to.

MR HUGO: Ja.  You have applied for amnesty in respect of numerous matters, is that correct?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, that is true, Sir.

MR HUGO: And you know what the requirements of the Act are, amongst others, that you have to make a proper disclosure and you have to have a political motivation, is that correct?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: Yes, my legal representative told me about that.

MR HUGO: Yes.  Now I'm very interested to hear what your political motivation is for this particular incident.  What do you think is your political motivation?

BUTANA ALMOND NOFOMELA: What I'm doing here is to tell that I knew that people were going to be shot at, I am the one who provided transport for them.  The fact that those people were infiltrated, those people were infiltrated as a result of the instruction that was from Mr de Kock.  And as far as I am concerned, as I'm not that clever, I think that is politically motivated and I applied because I knew I had knowledge that those people were going to be shot at that particular night.

MR HUGO: Yes, but your actions had to be directed against a political opponent, who was the political opponent according to your knowledge, in this particular incident?