Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1997-02-10

MS MAYA: Thank you Chairperson.  Just to add to the question of Mrs Crichton, you said there was a person called Pa Gwali, he was a policeman is that true?

AMELIA DYANTYI: He was a teacher.

MS MAYA: Was he also one of Fezile's brothers?

AMELIA DYANTYI: He was Fezile's cousin.

MS MAYA: Were they all present during Sebenzile's death?

AMELIA DYANTYI: Yes, they were present.

MS MAYA: Maybe Mrs Hobana, you can answer this question.  Were they also prosecuted during the court proceedings?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, they were at the court, they submitted a statement.

MS MAYA: Were they sentenced?

ROSE HOBANA: No.

MS MAYA: Do you have any idea where they are right now?

ROSE HOBANA: All of them, they relocated, they left Cradock.

MS MAYA: One other question, maybe you will be able to clarify this.  This thing of the scholars that used to be
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taken with the police vans to school, was this a common thing here in Cradock?

ROSE HOBANA: ; Yes.

MS MAYA: It was a certain group, only a certain group of scholars who could go to school?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, they continued going to school, but some other children were not going to school because they were fighting.

MS MAYA: Were there any other children who suffered the same as Sebenzile by being stabbed?

ROSE HOBANA: There are a lot of children who were also injured here in Cradock, but different cases.

MS MAYA: But do you think there were any relation?  Do you think the police were linked to this incident?

ROSE HOBANA: Some of the children were injured by the police.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mrs Hobana.  I have a few questions for you so that I can get clarity.  In your statement, if it is correct, you said the Attorney General refused to prosecute Fezile?  Can you please explain to me what happened?

ROSE HOBANA: Do you mean in the Magistrate's office?

BONGANI FINCA: Yes.

ROSE HOBANA: Fezile was arrested and his father and his cousin, they also went to court.  He was called and he gave a report, but there was no discussion and they said they would call us again, but that never happened.

BONGANI FINCA: Do you know the Prosecutor who was there in the court?

ROSE HOBANA: No, I don't know him.  And the attorney was Mr Siwisa.
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BONGANI FINCA: Thank you if we would like to get more details, we are going to consult Siwisa.
 Secondly, you are giving us a picture of differences in the community of Cradock being caused by a dismissal or transfer of Mr Goniwe?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, the people were in the struggle and Goniwe was the leader and it appeared that at school some of the people were not in favour of him.

BONGANI FINCA: You mean that was the cause of different opinions from the residents?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes.  The Gwali family was working hand in hand with the police.

BONGANI FINCA: After the death of your son, Sebenzile, how was the atmosphere in the community?

ROSE HOBANA: Things got worse because during the death of Sebenzile, Goniwe was still alive.

BONGANI FINCA: Was that the cause of the conflict between your family and Fezile's family or perhaps it also affected the whole community?

ROSE HOBANA: The whole community was affected.

BONGANI FINCA: How was the funeral?  Were all the people there?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, all the people was there, but the police had the rules.

BONGANI FINCA: What kind of instructions?

ROSE HOBANA: They said at a certain time, the funeral should start at a certain time and only a certain amount of people should be there, should attend the funeral.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Mrs Rose and you Amelia.  I think this is helping us a lot that if you have made a statement, our investigation unit may follow up on those statements,
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because I think that your statement is a good example that when it is difficult for the Commission to get a clear picture of the situation at the time,  it is likely that the Commission can reach an improper conclusion or decision.
 Your statement looks like it was just a conflict of people, but now by getting deep into the details of the atmosphere of the community, it is clear of what was happening and what was happening during the death of Sebenzile.
 I want to commend on the way you have explained, you have told us the story and we are now clear about the situation of Cradock at the time.
 I want the people to know, all the people who have made a statement, must know that our investigation unit is going to make a follow up, so that they can be able to differentiate between the issues of the community and things that are politically related.
 Though this Commission would like to get deeper into the details, but unfortunately we are restricted in some of the issues.  Therefor I want to thank you, you and your witness for coming forward and telling us that story.
 Thank you, you can take your seats.