Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-02-09

UNKNOWN: To come back to the "when" there is quite a dispute regarding this matter.  Page, in volume 2, to page 187.  In this document, this is an abstract from the Incident Book, is that correct, the date is the 10th of August 1981, Entry 630, I think, it follows
"Released S/N Konisiwe Kondile 14/11 - RELEASED"
I am afraid this handwriting isn't very clear.  Is this correct?  Can you assist us what did this person want to write - 14/11?

MR DU PLESSIS: I think it's the cell register number.  I don't know what is written here, it seems to me it says "Released".

UNKNOWN: And I refer again to documents which are not in the new bundle, they are in the old bundle.  Did you also send a telex dated - a telex from you in which you recommend he should be released?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: And the date of that telex?

MR DU PLESSIS: The 10th of the eighth month, 1981.  This was addressed to the Security Branch headquarters.

UNKNOWN: And here you are still saying that he was willing to cooperate although it was not true at that stage?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: And on page 45 of the same bundle it says that this person is released on this date.
	Mr Chairman I will make copies of this available.  It was part of the original bundle but for some or other reason it wasn't included in the new volume 1.  I will just make these two telexes available to you.  Mr Chairman if you want to see it at the moment we can lend you a copy.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Booyens.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.    What happened on the dates of those various entries?

MR DU PLESSIS: On that day Sergeant Raath and I, as we have indicated in the Incident Book, he was released, Kondile was released.  We went via Port Elizabeth where we met van Rensburg and we went to Bloemfontein.

UNKNOWN: I am sorry to interrupt you.  We are referring to Sergeant Raath, how is it that he become involved?

MR DU PLESSIS: Sergeant Raath was involved in this investigation, I trusted him and that is why after van Rensburg and I, in cooperation with Erasmus made our decision I informed him regarding the problem we have and asked him whether he would be willing to assist us.  I also gave him a choice in this decision and he came back and he said he had no other choice, he was prepared to cooperate.

UNKNOWN: Sergeant Raath, this is the third applicant?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) all about?

MR DU PLESSIS: In the execution of the elimination of the detained Mr Kondile.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the story which would happen in cooperation with the Vlakplaas people?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Well you've said you went to Bloemfontein then, why do you mention Bloemfontein specifically, was there anything noteworthy about Bloemfontein?

MR DU PLESSIS: Kondile's vehicle, when he was arrested and detained in Bloemfontein, was left behind there in Bloemfontein, not at a police station, as far as I can remember, but at a safe place.  And I made contact with the Security Branch in Bloemfontein and asked that this vehicle should be handed over to us again.  I can't remember today with whom I had made contact in Bloemfontein.  I can't remember whether we met him at the Security Branch or at the police station or where, but what I can remember is that we did find the vehicle there and Sergeant Raath was the driver of the vehicle and he followed us in this vehicle to Komatipoort.

UNKNOWN: And when you arrived at Komatipoort did you meet Dirk Coetzee there?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.  I can't remember precisely but I remember there was an arrangement that we would meet him at a certain stop street or at a certain bridge but it was in the vicinity of Komatipoort.

UNKNOWN: And tell the Commission in your own words what happened then.

ADV DE JAGER: What had happened to the vehicle then, was it still with you when you came there?

MR DU PLESSIS: No the vehicle and the Commission must please excuse me, I don't know that environment but I think it's in the direction of Barberton near the Swaziland border.  We left the vehicle there.  We left it by the side of the road and left it there with the keys in it.  Kondile went with us in our vehicle.  Sergeant Raath also got into our vehicle and together we drove in the direction of Komatipoort.

ADV DE JAGER: Your Advocate perhaps wanted to ask you the question.

UNKNOWN: Let's repeat this, who was in Kondile's vehicle?

MR DU PLESSIS: Raath.  Kondile was with me and van Rensburg in my vehicle.

UNKNOWN: Was Mr Kondile at any stage in his vehicle ..(intervention)

MR DU PLESSIS: ...because Mr Kondile and Raath got into our vehicle.

UNKNOWN: What do you mean?

MR DU PLESSIS: What I am saying is that Raath drove with us to Komatipoort.

UNKNOWN: It was in fact what Mr de Jager wanted to clear up because I had the same problem.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's make the position quite clear, that Raath at some stage drove Kondile's vehicle, stopped it near the border of Swaziland, got out of it and then accompanied the applicant?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: So there were four of you in your vehicle on the way to Komatipoort.  You met Dirk Coetzee in Komatipoort as you have arranged, is that correct?  Tell us what happened afterwards.

MR DU PLESSIS: From there we went to a deserted place which was full of bushes because it's the bushveld there.  I don't know how long it took us to get there.  I don't know how far it was.  I would guess or speculate it took us about half an hour to that specific place.  It could have been longer.  I can't indicate where the place is today.

UNKNOWN: Half an hour from where?

MR DU PLESSIS: Half an hour from where we had met Dirk Coetzee.

UNKNOWN: Was he all by himself?

MR DU PLESSIS: No there was another person with him who at a later stage, when we arrived there, was introduced to me as Mr Royote.

UNKNOWN: Right, you've been driving for half an hour, what happened then?

MR DU PLESSIS: We came to this place which I accept was the place where the elimination had to be done and which was done there.

UNKNOWN: What happened there?

MR DU PLESSIS: Kondile had to sit down against the trunk of a tree.  His hands were fastened, they were in shackles,  and shortly after we had arrived there were cool drinks and perhaps some beer, I can't remember, I can't say who had some beer.  I myself am not a drinker.  We also gave Kondile some food and he also had some cool drinks.  Later on I saw that Kondile, as he was sitting down slowly fell to one side and was lying on this side.  Somebody said at that stage that the elimination had to be carried out.  Perhaps they didn't use that word, I can't remember precisely which word they used.  As far as I can remember Sergeant Roy Otto took out his firearm and I think it was his service pistol and shot Kondile.  Afterwards he was put on some wood which was already there and we also gathered some more wood and he was burnt to death.

UNKNOWN: Did you remain there until he had been burned out completely?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes we remained there.  Early the next morning I, General van Rensburg and Raath left that place. Coetzee and Roy Otto were left behind.

UNKNOWN: Apart from the deceased I count five people were there, three people from Port Elizabeth, Dirk Coetzee and Otto, were there any other people present?

MR DU PLESSIS: Not that I know of.  Not any person I saw.

UNKNOWN: As far as you know there were five people present there.  And did you go directly back to Port Elizabeth?

MR DU PLESSIS: I think we returned to Port Elizabeth directly.  I can't remember that we slept over somewhere, but I can't want to exclude this as a possibility.  We were tired, we didn't sleep a lot and there was the possibility that we could have slept over.