Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-25

MR SIPHO: Mr Chairman, Xolani Tsotetsi, his application is on page 160 of the papers.  His evidence was dealt with on page 241 of the trial record, of the judgement rather.

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Sipho?

MR SIPHO: Thank you.  Mr Tsotetsi, how old are you?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: 28.

MR SIPHO: During 1991, where did you live?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: At Nhlalagahle township in Greytown.

MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know the deceased in this case?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I know her.

MR SIPHO: What was her name?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Mxquso Victoria Mthembu.

MR SIPHO: Okay, now you are aware that she was killed on the 28th of September 1991.

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I am aware.

MR SIPHO: Did you take part in the killing of the deceased?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.

MR SIPHO: Okay, now on that day, were you travelling along in a kombi in the vicinity of the HLH compound?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes.

MR SIPHO: Okay, at about what time was this on that day?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: About quarter to three in the afternoon.

MR SIPHO: What did you see as you drove passed the HLH compound?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: As we drove near there, we saw the deceased inside the compound.

MR SIPHO: Now, you have heard the evidence of the witness who gave evidence before you.

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.

MR SIPHO: Do you agree with the evidence that he gave?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I do.

MR SIPHO: And you would agree then that the HLH compound was inhabited by members of Inkatha Freedom Party?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I agree.

MR SIPHO: The members, the people of the township where you lived, were members of the ANC?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Was it normal for people from the township to go and visit people at the compound?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No, it was not because of the situation in the township.

MR SIPHO: Okay, how did you feel about having seen the deceased at the compound?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I did not feel good about it because I knew her to be one of our members.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  As far as you were concerned, her presence at that compound, what did it mean to you?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: We were in one organisation.  Her presence being there, did not feel good to me, I wondered what she was doing there, it actually gave me a different picture.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Did you then confront the deceased at some later point that day?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No, I did not approach her.

MR SIPHO: Okay, were you in the company of certain other people at the time when the deceased was assaulted?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I was.

MR SIPHO: Who were the other people?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: The people who are here, as well as (indistinct) and Khanyile.

MR SIPHO: When you refer to people who are here, do you mean all the other applicants?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  What did you do to the deceased, if anything at all?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I also partook in assaulting her and we then took her to Mr Msolo's home.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Is it true that the deceased made a certain confession to you and to the other people that were present there?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, she did.

MR SIPHO: What was the gist of that confession?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: She confessed that she was an informer.  She would actually take whatever we were doing, and report it to the IFP and also was in contact with the police.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Were you also present at the home of Mr Msolo?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I was there.

MR SIPHO: Who is Mr Msolo?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: He was the Chairperson of the ANC in the township.

MR SIPHO: Did you also take part in stabbing the deceased later that evening?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.

MR SIPHO: What exactly did you do?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I stabbed her.

MR SIPHO: Do you know how many times you stabbed her?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I do not remember.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Is it true that each and every one of the applicants here, took turns in stabbing her?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, that is the truth, we were all there.

MR SIPHO: Okay, why was it necessary for everyone to stab her?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: We had started this all together, and we had to finish it together.

MR SIPHO: During that time, well, you have always been a member of the ANC, is that so?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes.

MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know for how long you had been a member of the ANC at the time of the commission of this offence?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I wouldn't be able to remember quite well, but from the time that I was born and grew up in the township, I have always been an ANC member.

MR SIPHO: Now, when you gave your evidence in the trial court, did you readily concede that you were a member of the ANC?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No, I did not.

MR SIPHO: Is it true that the Judge found that you were very evasive when it came to giving information about the ANC?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIPHO: For the record, I refer to page 242 of the judgement.
	Why were you evasive about it, why didn't you simply say that you were a member of the ANC?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: At that time, I believed that white people were prejudiced against the ANC.  That is why I did not admit it at court.

MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know how members of the IFP would have reacted had you made an admission that you in fact killed the deceased, whilst you were a member of the ANC?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No.

MR SIPHO: Okay, in all other respects, do you confirm the evidence that was given by Mr Mhlambo?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes, I do.

MR SIPHO: Mr Chairman and Committee members, I don't intend to get into repeating everything that was said by the other witnesses, I have just covered certain specific areas.  I intend to leave his evidence at that.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIPHO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sipho.  Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MS THABETE: No Mr Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS THABETE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?  Sorry, there is no re-examination obviously.  Mr Lax?
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SIPHO

MR LAX: Chairperson, if you will just give me a moment, maybe Mr Sibanyoni can carry on.  There is one thing I just want to check up with my notes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I do not have any questions for this applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Tsotetsi, are you still serving your term of imprisonment or have you been released?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No, I have been released.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that also during August of this year?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have a Self Defence Unit there in that township?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No.  We were just the people responsible for protecting the community, but there was no unit.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Mr Msolo still alive?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: No, he is deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, you alluded to the one area that was worrying me, I just wanted to check the form.  If you look at page 160, which is the translation of your application form, perhaps to be fair to you, one would also look at page 149, which is the Zulu version of your form, at the answer to paragraph 6(b), you  say that then I was in the Self Defence Unit.
	You have just told us there was no Self Defence Unit.  Why did you write that in your form, or why did you give that answer in your form?  What did you mean by that answer?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I meant that I was a member of the ANC who was acting under the guidelines of the ANC.

MR LAX: But you know what an SDU is, you have heard of the term before?

XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: I am not very conversant about what they are.