Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

MR NONGENA: Yes, it is Xanti whose mentioned his name.

CHAIRPERSON: When Xanti said  that Card is going  to sort you out, what  did Card  do ?

MR NONGENA: Card would beat us up.

CHAIRPERSON: With what ?

MR NONGENA: He would kick us, punch us.  He was demanding the truth, so to speak.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the duration of time ?

MR NONGENA: It was over a few days.  It is Charles and Hatanga that were there all the time.  Card was not there all the time.  I said that they must take a true report, put it on my forehead and rather shoot me.

CHAIRPERSON: Therefore, you're saying that Card was there only on one night?

MR NONGENA: Yes, he was present the one night only.

MS MAYA: Thank you Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Boyi, maybe you can clarify the form of torture that was  used  on
you people.   Mr Nongena said that a straight-jacket was used as a form of torture.  What were they using with you ?

MAHKI BOYI: They were beating us up, punching and kicking.

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence you said there were three policemen, but the one you remember, is Card.   You've forgotten the others.  Could you give us a reason why it is that you would remember Card only.

MAHKI BOYI: I remember his name because a lot of people were talking about card in a similar manner.  This is why I did not forget his name.  He was known for torturing people.

CHAIRPERSON: Xanti Sebe, known as Charles Sebe.  Was he in King William's Town or East London ?

MAHKI BOYI: King William's Town.

CHAIRPERSON: And Card ?

MAHKI BOYI: He was stationed in East London, but I would see him often in King William's Town, but apparently he was stationed in East London.

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence Mr Boyi.  In your evidence you mentioned Johnson Nongena.   Sorry, it is the other gentleman that mentioned his name.  Please give him the mike.  Mr Nongena in your evidence your mentioned Johnson Nongena.  Where you arrested together?

MR NONGENA: They were arrested before me.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were tortured with the method of a straight-jacket, was Mr Nongena there ?

MR NONGENA: He was there, but he'd been shot already.  We were  in different  cells,
we were not in the same cell.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there people that you remember who are still alive, who would help us with this evidence, witnesses perhaps ?

MR NONGENA: The person who would help me has passed away.  He had a car accident.  He would help me, were he alive.

CHAIRPERSON: The last question, Mr Boyi.  When you were arrested, you were at work ?  Your boss called  you and told you that the police had come to arrest you.  Do you remember your boss's name ?

MAHKI BOYI: It was Mr Botha.

CHAIRPERSON: Which firm was this ?

MAHKI BOYI: Athangkite is now referred to as water affairs.

CHAIRPERSON: You probably don't know his first name because we did not know outr boss's first names at the time.  Who ? Botha ?

MAHKI BOYI: No I don't know him.  We just referred to him as Botha.  I don't expect you to know because we referred to him as Baas.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your evidence.  It humbles us to know that this battle was fought from of old by elderly people like you, our parents.  People under the impression that the youths in the 1980's were the people of the struggle for liberation.  As we are learning and growing within the Commission, especially in Pondoland, we heard elderly, elderly men who were fighting in the early 60's on the mountains in Pondoland for liberation.  That makes us realize that we are a people who sacrificed themselves from of old for the liberation that we have to-day.  Thank you,  Mr Nongena.
Even though you were touched deeply and you cried.   We are  not happy, they are happy, 
they hurt us.  We thank you that when you were asked to list your requests, you were altruistic enough to think of the other people in the village and not yourself.  A lot of people are self-centered.  If they need a mat that is that.  They forget about the rest of the nation.  
 Your request that there be a monument for all those who passed on through the struggle for liberation.  You said that there should also be a project that would help the people of the village and not yourself.  There are only a few men like you.  We should learn from you, so that we also can be honourable people one day.  We thank you both for your evidence.  We request that you now step down, knowing that you have touched us deeply.  Thank you.
        We welcome you, Mr Clarke.  You have already introduced yourself, to us, but just for sake of record, could you please just confirm that you are who you are and the instructions that have been given to you.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I am, I've been requested to assist Mr Donald Card? at the hearing and the name is Clarke, the initial I.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Welcome, Mr Card?.  We will request you to take the oath, so that the testimony that are giving is under oath.  Over to you Reverend Xundu.
MR CARD?: (sworn states)
( The speaker's mike is not on).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Card? and Mr Clarke.  I will, I will be asking Mr Clarke perhaps just to quickly address us on the procedure that he wants to follow, but before I do  so, I  would like to  welcome you.   We  had  some  confusion  when  your  name  was
mentioned in a hearing in Queenstown by a certain Mr Yoyo .  At that time we operated on the understanding that we are not required to give notification, but since then we have had a ruling of the appellate division which requires us to give notification of a person who is likely to be named in a hearing and who, according to the statement received by us is named as an alleged perpetrator, so we duly given you notification in this regard and you have indicated that you would like to come and give your side of the story to the Commission so that it's on record and whatever decision we contemplate making on the matter, we have your side of the story and this is the opportunity for you to do so, but of course Mr Clarke will take his responsibility of choosing the matter that he would like to follow.

UNKNOWN: May I just clarify firstly, that the matter was postponed on Monday, I understand, until to-day, but the date and time of to-day of 11 o'clock was actually arranged with Advocate Sandi and it wasn't that we weren't here on Monday.  It was actually a time arranged with Advocate Sandi to appear to-day, if I may just clarify that issue.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, we regret the misinformation that we received.