Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ladybrand — 1997-06-26

MR LAX: And you had never been to that farm before?

WITNESS:   I did not even know where the farm was.  The police took me to the farm.  They wanted me to point at the farm.  They had a camera in their possession.  They wanted me to point at the farm so that they can take pictures of me.

MR LAX: It looked like you were pointing to your own actions?

WITNESS:   Yes.  They even put a hand grenade in my hand to demonstrate.  I do not know how to operate even this hand grenade.  They told me to pull a pin and demonstrate.

MR LAX: Your other colleagues who you've mentioned, Theko and Themba, were they also quite badly injured during their torture and detention?

WITNESS:   I think all of us were injured during the torture, but I am now talking on my behalf.  I was severely injured, because after all the others were released they came for me.

MR LAX: Why do you think they came for you a second time?

WITNESS:   They were now torturing me alone the second time.

MR LAX: Why do you think they did that?

WITNESS:   I explained that these people alleged that myself and Themba were the leaders of the PAC.  So now these policemen were given information by Comrade Pius because ... (intervention)

MR LAX: Can I just stop you there.  Unfortunately you didn't talk about Comrade Pius in your statement originally, and so we haven't had an opportunity to give him notice that you were going to talk about him.  And we're required to be fair to all people who are named, so - you mentioned it, it came out.  I didn't stop you at that point because you just mentioned it once, but I can't allow you to continue to talk about it without giving him an opportunity to reply.  So we will have to write a letter to him and explain what you've told us and get his side of the story.  So you must understand we have to be fair to everybody.

WITNESS:   I understand.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... for the moment.  You must understand I am not covering up for him, I am just - I have a duty to protect him as I would have to protect you if you were named.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

MR LAX: After you escaped from the police did they ever try and re-arrest you or charge you with anything else?

WITNESS:  They could not arrest me because I ran to the bushes.

MR LAX: Did you not go home after that?

WITNESS:   I never went home.

MR LAX: Were you on the run?

WITNESS:   I went to spend the night with my friends.  I was afraid they would come home.

MR LAX: So you were on the run just for that one night?

WITNESS:   I was on the run and I went to Botshabelo to the head office of the PAC, and we explained to them what the situation was involving the members of the PAC ... (inaudible - end of Side A, Tape 4) ... I was spending the nights at my relative in Botshabelo and they could not find anybody at the head office.

MR LAX: Who is they, sorry, the police?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Did the head office have some communication with the police around these issues?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LAX: As part of our investigations into your statement we wrote to the police at Ficksburg to try and find out whether you were charged in any cases and whether they had any records of you having been charged.  They said the only records they could find during September - and it may have been that you were charged much later - were of a Clement Ramahawe.  Is that not a name you may have used?

WITNESS:   I am Clement Masemola.  Maybe they wanted to write my name.

MR LAX: The other two names they gave us were a Clement Mubatha and a Clement Ludsula.  Those are not names you may have used?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LAX: They are completely unrelated cases as well, so we just think that it's not the same thing.  I just thought I'd check it with you.  Mr Masemola, thank you very much for coming to tell us this quite difficult story.  The issue of the APLA campaigns is quite well know, particularly in the eastern Free State, and we're grateful to have some evidence of how the police went about investigating those cases.  And the story you've told us is very similar to what we've seen in other places, where the police picked up all sorts of people totally unconnected, and tried to get information through various means of torture.  You've given us a very clear account of what happened to you, and we wish to thank you for that, and we hope that in your having the opportunity to tell your story it could bring some relief to you, to at least be acknowledged.  And we hope that your friends whose stories we haven't heard can at least in some way share in your telling of the story.  If any of your friends would like to tell their stories as well, at least to give us statements, you can get the details of our Bloemfontein office and we can arrange for statements to be taken from them as well if they would like that.  Because clearly there are other stories that need to be told about what happened in your area.  So we thank you for coming and we wish you well.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

MR LAX: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, Mr Setene.

SOLOMON MAJO SETENE: Good afternoon, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: You, like the previous witness but one, Mr Semakale, you also come from Ficksburg, and you have come to tell us about a similar sort of incident as Mr Semakale told us about.

SOLOMON MAJO SETENE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And this happened to you in August 1993.

SOLOMON MAJO SETENE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you give your evidence you have to take the oath.

SOLOMON MAJO SETENE: (Sworn, States)  (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Now, just give us some idea of your background.  Have you always lived in that area of Ficksburg?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... there now?

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... a family?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have my family.

CHAIRPERSON: At that time you were living with your mother, is that right?

WITNESS:   Even now I am still staying with my mother.

CHAIRPERSON: That's Rosalina Setene.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't have a family of your own, you don't have children and a wife?

WITNESS:   I have children, I don't just have a wife.  I am divorced.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  Now, at that time in August 1993 were you working in Ficksburg or what were you doing?

WITNESS:   I was just at home, I was unemployed.

CHAIRPERSON: Now Mr Semakale, who gave his evidence earlier this morning, gave us some idea of the conflict which existed in Ficksburg between the South African National Civic Organisation and the ANC.  Do you want to confirm that, or tell us a little bit more about how that conflict happened, or what it was about?