Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

MR LAX: Can I just ask you a few questions to clarify some aspectsplease? This person who told you about this words and finding your son's body,do you know his name at all -the person from Johannesburg?

WITNESS: I do not knowhis name, but I think the ANC office in Gauteng will know his name.

MR LAX: Now, together with your son's body there were some documentswhich came back which you've given to us. Do you remember those documents? ---Yes, I have the documents.

MR LAX: We have made copies of those documents. You're aware of that?Now, one of those documents is what appears to be a death certificate in Portuguese.--- Yes. I asked them. "These papers are written in Portuguese. I don't haveany idea." They said, "Keep them safe. Just before the funeral is over we wouldhave changed those into English," but it never happened that they changed thedocuments.

MR LAX: Well, perhaps we can get that done for you. Apart from thestory of an exchange of words and your son being found outside in a pool ofblood, in your statement you also tell us that someone else told you that yourson had a stroke. Is that correct?

WITNESS: The ANC people told me that my son hadbeen killed because he had stroke. I asked them, "Is it possible that you coulddie of stroke and his bones be broken?" because he had a fracture in his bone.

MR LAX: Now, you told us about - sorry, before I move on, who in theANC - do you know who the people were who told you your son had a stroke?

WITNESS: It was Mr Malebu who told methat my son died of stroke.

MR LAX: Now, you spoke about two or three people that should have comeback with your son. Who are these people you are talking about? You said hewasn't to come back alone, but he was to come back with two or three other people.--- It's what they told me, that if one is supposed to come home he can't bealone, there should be two of them or three of them.

MR LAX: You don't know what that means? His friends, or his family,or people of that kind?

WITNESS: I think they are talking about the Comrades.

MR LAX: You don't know whether your son had any - a wife maybe in Angola,or any children there?

WITNESS: He was staying with a girl and they had a kid.

MR LAX: Have you had any contact with them at all?

WITNESS: I have onlyphotos. I don't even know her and she doesn't even know me.

MR LAX: I've also been led to believe that the police in Angola wereinvestigating your son's death. Do you know about that?

WITNESS: The Comrades toldme so. Even Macdonald told me.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... had any further reports about that investigation?--- I got only one.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... there's nothing coming through.

WITNESS: I havenever received any report from him, and nobody ever came to me to tell me whathappened to him.

MR LAX: Thank you. We can possibly follow that up for you. Thank you,Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to - yes, Dr Mgojo.

KHOZA MGOJO: Just one question, Ma Adelaide. In your questionjust now you have mentioned - you have made mention of a girl. There's a girlwho gave you Matzifiso's - your son's telephone number when he was out of thecountry, and then there's a girl who stayed with your son, and they had a kidwhen he was outside the country. Is this one girl or two girls?

WITNESS: The onewho had the telephone number stays here in Bloemfontein, and the one he hasa child with stays in Angola.

KHOZA MGOJO: This one in Bloemfontein, do you know how she came to knowabout your son's telephone number?

WITNESS: The Macdonald that I have referred tois the brother to this girl. He is the brother to this girl.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you, Sir.

UNKNOWN: Any further questions? Thank you very much.What we have discovered so many times on this Commission is that the situationin our country, particularly in the 1970s and 80s, was so turbulent, so muchconflict, so much confusion, and so many young people leaving the country, tryingto resist the system at the time. Many of them have come back, and it's very,very hard for people like yourself, whose son was away for such a long time,you hardly ever heard a word, and then you have a promise of him coming backand then he doesn't come, and you wait, and when he does come it's a body ina coffin, and you don't understand what happened to him, and that's perhapsthe hardest thing of all.
And my colleagues have already told you that we are going todo everything we can. That is why we ask the questions. Not because we are inquisitive, it's just that weneed to know so that we can help you. We will try our best, and we will do everythingwe can to assist, and once we've made the inquiries, and when we have some information,we will come back to you. 
Thank you very much for coming, and I hope that in the tellingof the story something of the burden that you have been carrying for so longwill be in a small way lifted. Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Mrs Jakila, we welcome you, and can I makesure that you can hear me through the earphones.

BERNICE JAKILA: I can hear you.

UNKNOWN: Loud and clear?

BERNICE JAKILA: I can hear you clearly.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. If you can put the mikeas close to her as possible please. Mrs Jakila, we have been talking this afternoonabout not really knowing sometimes where our loved ones are and what happenedto them. Your situation is about the disappearance of Andries Gorape, and you'regoing to tell us about that in a moment. And it's a long time ago, but I amsure it's very, very painful for you still. Would you please stand to take theoath before we start.

BERNICE JAKILA: (Sworn, States)

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. Please be seated. Mrs Jakila,my colleague, Mr Dlamini, is going to help you as you tell us the story of yourson's disappearance. Thank you. Mr Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman. Mama Jakila, thankyou for the time that you have accorded us. I would request you to tell us yourstory. It is a painful story, as the Chairperson has said already, but for usto be able to make an attempt in helping you it's only when you try and tellus as clear as possible, giving us all the clues that you think will help usto assist you. Thank you, and may I request you to start telling us about thecircumstances around which your son disappeared, and any other relevant informationthat you think would be of use to the Commission in order to help you. Thankyou.

WITNESS:  In 1964 I moved from home and I went to Gauteng. I left mychildren with their grandmother. As I was in Gauteng I heard that my childrenwere also in Gauteng, but I was staying in Orange Grove, where I was workingas a domestic worker. As they were still there in 1976, when there were riotsor uprisings in 1976 in Soweto, after about a few days Jeremiah - that is hisbrother - came to ask me where Andries was. I said I didn't know anything becauseI was staying at Orange Grove. He told me that nine days has lapsed since hedisappeared. I told him I hadn't seen him. I told him to go back to the locationto try and find out, because I could not go out. We were being arrested in termsof the pass laws. But I went to the police stations in town. I went to JohnVorster Square. When we were still coming they just chased us away. They toldus that they knew what we wanted and they were not interested to assist us.I went to Number Four. They also refused to help me. I went to Modder B Prison.There they tried to look at their documents, as well as files, but they saidthe couldn't locate him. That is when I felt I couldn't get him. I had a hopethat when the others were coming back he was also going to come back. As timewent on I realised that he wasn't coming back. I was now reaching my tether,because I just couldn't get any help. Right now my heart is very sore becauseI don't know what is happening to my son, or what happened to him. I don't haveany more to say.