Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-21

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now let's go back to what I'd said to you initially or sometime in the beginning.  Before you could attack and kill the deceased, were you told of any physical action by the deceased where he attacked IFP?

M R NDLOVU: We had received information from Sibonelo Dlamini that the deceased supplied weapons to the ANC for them to attack Mpumuza and organising them to actually attack the area.  This war went on and some people were injured and killed during the course of the conflict.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were you told by your informer, once more, as to when was the IFP attacked and as to whether the deceased was involved in that attack by supplying arms?

M R NDLOVU: Sibonelo told us that the deceased was behind all these activities.  He supplied them with weapons and he would also instruct them or recommend to them how they should attack the area and he would be amongst them.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: When was the last attack on the IFP orchestrated by the deceased on the period?

M R NDLOVU: It was in 1991.  There was an ongoing war between January and March 1991.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And your informer told you that the deceased was involved in that fight or war?

M R NDLOVU: Yes, that is what he told us.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did you tell this when you were being led by your lawyer?

M R NDLOVU: I explained it to my lawyer.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No,  in evidence now, when you're giving evidence about the information given to you?

M R NDLOVU: He did not ask me about that, I only responded to questions that were put to me.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let me remind you, you were telling on your own about the informer who came to you and told you everything.  He never asked you questions about informer, you volunteered then you told what happened.  Is that not so?

M R NDLOVU: That is correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you did not tell us this portion that you are telling us now?

M R NDLOVU: I am explaining it because you are enquiring about it now.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Don't you think this was an important part because you alleged that you killed this man because he was orchestrating wars against the IFP.  Was that not important for your case?

M R NDLOVU: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now you discussed this incident, unfortunate incident with your brother, Tabani, and you went and executed your plan by killing the deceased.  Did you not have leadership in your earlier IFP leadership?

M R NDLOVU: There were some leaders at Mpumuza but Tabani was the IFP Youth Leader and everything was reported to him.  I received many orders from Tabani, I did not see a reason to go report or discuss this matter with other leaders because Tabani was there and he was also a leader, a youth leader, in the area.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now seeing that you are going to carry out as you allege you carried out this operation on behalf of the IFP, wasn't it necessary for you and Tabani to discuss this with the local leadership, not youth leadership, the local national leadership or any regional leadership?

M R NDLOVU: I assumed that Tabani communicated with the leadership because Tabani was a leader and he was the one who was closest to us as the youth leader and I assumed that he communicated whatever we discussed with the other members of the leadership in the area.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did Tabani or yourself have any authority in terms of the IFP structures to - can plan and execute a plan and kill a person or authorise any operation?

M R NDLOVU: Yes we had that right to plan that because Tabani was responsible for the security of IFP members in the Mpumuza area.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Are you saying you even have the authority to can authorise a killing of a person on behalf of IFP?

M R NDLOVU: Yes he could have that authority because even the leaders at Mpumuza relied on him.  They all came to report to Tabani at Mpumuza about the war and what they suffered.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Let's turn to page 12.

MR LAX: Sorry, before you go away.  Which leaders came to report to him?

M R NDLOVU: IFP youth members from Mpumuza and some other men, people like Mr Ngobo, they were attacked and they would come to Tabani and complain to them that they're being attacked and there he was as their protector and he was doing nothing.  Women and children also come to Tabani to report to him.

MR LAX: Yes I asked you which leaders, which leaders at Mpumuza came to him?  You said the leaders came and reported to him.  I know ordinary people might have come but which leaders came to him?

M R NDLOVU: Mr Ngobo and Mr Phillip Umhlongo reported to Tabani.

MR LAX: And who gave him the authority to look after the security, which senior people?

M R NDLOVU: Tabani used to work in the kwaZulu Police, he had been stationed at the Mpumalanga from Ulundi, he would report at the police station.  I do not know who specifically he reported to but it was known that he was in the area protecting IFP members.

MR LAX: Mr Ndlovu, if your brother and this is your oldest brother and it's clear you were close to him and you discussed these matters with him, if he was responsible for the whole of Mpumuza's security, he would have discussed it with the IFP leadership at Mpumuza at least.  You've not mentioning any of their names here, why?  Why are you not telling us about these other people?

M R NDLOVU: We discussed some things but some of the things he would not tell me because I was younger and maybe he suspected that I may not keep that information to myself but whatever we knew we heard from him.  Even if there were meetings, maybe if he had meetings somewhere else he would tell us but he had never mentioned to me the specific leaders who he met because I was younger and I was also afraid to ask him some of the things.

MR LAX: Who were the leaders at Mpumuza of the IFP?

M R NDLOVU: It was Mr Phillip Umhlongo.

MR LAX: Yes, what was his role?

M R NDLOVU: He was the chairman of the IFP.

MR LAX: And what police station was your brother based at?

M R NDLOVU: At the Mpumalanga Police Station in Hammarsdale, that was the one station closest to Mpumuza in Pietermartizburg.

MR LAX: And who was he responsible for guarding?

M R NDLOVU: He was responsible for protecting IFP members in ...[indistinct] and Mpumuza and he also protected IFP members in parliament like Mr Nabisa Ngobe.

MR LAX: Carry on Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you.  Just to go a little back, the meeting where the plan was done between yourself and your brother, where did this take place?

M R NDLOVU: It was held at my home at Mpumuza.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It was started there and finalised there then execution followed?

M R NDLOVU: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: When you say your brother was a leader, was a youth leader, what position did he hold in the youth leadership?

M R NDLOVU: He was the chairperson of the IFP Youth League.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Would I be correct to state that there was a youth committee in that area as well for which he was a chairman?

M R NDLOVU: I did not fully understand the workings of the youth committee but he was in the youth committee and he was the chairperson.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You don't know whether he was a chair of a committee, all what you know is that he was a chair of the youth?

M R NDLOVU: He was the chairperson of the youth.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: At any given moment did yourself and your brother discuss this with any leadership in the youth?

M R NDLOVU: Other people that we could have discussed the matter with that those people that my brother trusted were already deceased.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No I'm not talking about brothers, I'm talking about leaders in the youth leadership, he was a chair of the committee.  Were they involved in this planning?

M R NDLOVU: No, they were not involved.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: After doing all this, did you report your actions to the IFP leadership?

M R NDLOVU: Tabani reported.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: To whom did he report?