Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Residents said because of - they were emotionally charged - they said enough is enough.  They said we should apprehend these people firstly.  We should disarm them firstly because they are using those arms to harass the community.

CHAIRPERSON: You were going to apprehend member with the SDU and take them where?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Would apprehend them and take them to the community.

CHAIRPERSON: That's the community at that stage - you mean the community that had gathered at Block C?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I explained that because of - the community was emotionally charged - within those members of the community, the directive came that enough is enough, that we should apprehend these people.

CHAIRPERSON: You say the decision was taken that you should go and apprehend these people and disarm them.  Now I want to find out where were you going to take these people to?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We would take them to the place where we usually hold our meetings which is KBA.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: KBA sir.

CHAIRPERSON: KBA?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It is a place where residents of Mololeke used to hold their meetings.

CHAIRPERSON: Where about was it located in Mololeke, was it located in Mololeke section?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Yes it is within Mololeke section, it is in the centre of the Mololeke section.

CHAIRPERSON: In any specific Block?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: It is at the beginning of Block D.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you - was any decision taken as to who was going to take part in the rounding up of the members of the SDU and disarming them or was everybody, both the Youth League members and members of the community, going to take part in this joint expedition?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: The whole - all members who were present there, that is members of the community and members of the ANC Youth League will do that expedition.

CHAIRPERSON: And then did you then go in different directions and in different groups?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We now know that your group came across Oscar, Sonti and Rooivark?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I don't understand your information is when you say we met Oscar and Sonti?  Where, because when I explained on Friday I met them on Tuesday morning when they were looking for us.

CHAIRPERSON: Well maybe I didn't understand you.  From the meeting where did you go then, your group, where did it go?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: What time Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: You were at the meeting at Block C, where a decision had been taken that you were supposed to round up the members of the SDU, apprehend them and take them to KBA at the beginning of Block B.  Now from that gathering, where - and then you told us that you went in different groups to go and round up members of the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We went to Block D - Block E - that's where we went to Mr Blanko's place.  As I've explained that other members or other groups started at Vusi's place.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] group just proceed straight to Blanko's place - the group in which you were?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you tell Blanko that you wanted him to go and appear at KBA?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We explained to him that we're coming to fetch him because we are tired about their activities.  We requested him to go with us to KBA - that's where he resisted.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you started attacking him?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge were any members of the SDU apprehended by the community or the Youth League and taken to KBA?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No Chairperson because they saw when we attacked Blanko, then they assembled.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you attacked - did members of the SDU come to Blanko's house at the same time that you were there?  Did they find you there?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No sir.

CHAIRPERSON: When you left Blanko's place were the members SDU approaching Blanko's house?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I've no knowledge of that Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: By the time all of you left, the members of the SDU had not yet arrived at Blanko's place to your knowledge?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: As I've already explained that I have no knowledge when did they arrive at Blanko's place.

CHAIRPERSON: There was no shootout at Blanko's place between your group and the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: If I remember well Chairperson, we heard gun shots from us when we finished our work then that is where we went to the place where we stayed.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you run away from - when you left Blanko's place - were you walking or did you run away?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: We were running, running away from the gunshots.

CHAIRPERSON: Were people following you?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I'm not sure Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the cause of the conflict between the SDU and the Youth League?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: Chairperson as I've already explained, the conflict started after we saw that members of the SDU's, their activities were not in accord with the community's interests.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you suspect that members of the SDU were involved in criminal activities?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You had been suspecting them of this for a long time, is that right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: But up until Bulelwa's death, no action was taken against them, right?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I said as a leader of the community within the Civic, I wrote a report which I was directing it to their leadership so that they should come and reprimand them for their activities.

CHAIRPERSON: You wrote the report to who?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: I was writing that report to Central because I would take that report to a zonal meeting, then I had an assurance that that report has been taken through to the senior leadership.

CHAIRPERSON: But did that help?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: No it did not help because they were once called by the Central to be reprimanded but they refused to meet the Central.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, now, when Bulelwa was killed, it was then that the community and the Youth League members said enough is enough?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the community and the Youth League members took Bulelwa's death as being part of the criminal activities of the SDU?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay and this led to the decision, the killing of Blanko.  This led to the killing of Blanko?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And this led to the retaliation by the SDU members on Youth League members?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And that's how the victims that were shot at the veld met their death?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: They were killed because they had - they were suspected of having killed Blanko?

LETUSANG RAYMOND SHARON LEKABE: According to my knowledge that is how they were killed but according to the version of the members of the SDU they are not telling the truth.  That is not the truth they are telling here.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Lekabe.  Mr Madasa are you going to be very long in your - do you have any question that you want to put to the witness?

MR MADASA: Just one, Mr Chair.