Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

JEREMY CRONIN: Well, I suppose I could speak from personal experience.  In the days and week following the assassination, there were spontaneous strikes throughout the country, stay-at-home's and mass meetings in virtually every township.
	And at that period I was not particularly regarded as a speaker at mass rallies as your ideal speaker Chris Hani and others were more adept to doing that but we were so stretched by the occasion that someone like myself was deployed into an unlikely place like Sebokeng township and I found myself addressing an audience of - well, I don't know how large it was but it appeared to be some 20 or 30.000 strong and they were calling for armed action, they were calling for revenge on Whites and I was deployed into this situation.  
	There was - I remember, a PAC speaker agreeing with the mass sentiments at the time and it was my job as part of the collective of the ANC/SACP leadership, to
  tell people not to fall into this provocation, to focus attention on the demand for one person one vote elections and to say that this needed to be the battlefield on which we fought this matter out.  It was on the battlefield of elections of democracy and that we must not fall into the trap of those who were seeking to prevent and to delay that.
	And indeed I think that in doing this - in making this appeal, one of the things that helped us was to precisely to be able to quote what Chris Hani himself had been saying so eloquently in the three years before his death and indeed in the days -literally, before his assassination.  We were able to say: "It's not just us making a ...[indistinct], Chris Hani himself was asking you to take this attitude and not to fall into provocation.

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, the last paragraph - the conclusion, is argumentative and I do not intend asking the witness to deal with it as it's matters that were more dealt with - more properly dealt with by us in argument ...[indistinct]  rather a witness.  Those are all the questions we have to put to the witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

CROSS MR PRINSLOO: Mr Cronin, from what you've told the Commission - as I understand it, there were people - even in the ranks of the ANC and the SACP, who were sceptical as to a negotiative settlement, is that correct?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes, that's absolutely true.

MR PRINSLOO: And so, would it also be true - on the other side, people supporting the right-wing or Nationalist Party people were also sceptical with regard to a negotiated settlement in the country?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes, I accept that.

MR PRINSLOO: Now, Mr Hani - as you told the Committee, was a very popular person and the most likely person to succeed President Nelson Mandela, would it be fair comment?

JEREMY CRONIN: I don't want to speculate about the succession to Mandela,  I think that's pure speculation but he was certainly a very popular political leader.  He himself always said that he had no interest in going anywhere near Government and that he wanted continue to be an activist on the ground - that was his self image.  Whether popular pressure and the pressure of his organisations would have seen him moving into Government, is a matter of speculation - he was a strong willed person too.

MR PRINSLOO: In the minds of the people on the ground - the public at large, they perceived that Mr Hani would indeed be the successor to Mr Mandela, would that be unfair?

JEREMY CRONIN: I'm not sure.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.  And you've heard the evidence of Doctor Hartzenberg this morning?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And yesterday, as to what he told the Committee as to how the viewed Mr Hani?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes, I did hear.

MR PRINSLOO: And the views, that was not disputed - as to how those people viewed Mr Hani, do you agree to that?

JEREMY CRONIN: I can accept that those may be the perceptions of Doctor Ferdie Hartzenberg.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Cronin, in the past there's been a lot in the media and that there was at times - prior to the assassination of Mr Hani, attempted assassinations on the life of Mr Hani?

JEREMY CRONIN: That's correct, there were at least three assassination attempts on him during his exile period and in our view there was also an assassination attempt against him the year before - in 1992.

MR PRINSLOO: And would it be fair to say Mr Cronin, that the people accused of that would be people that supported the Nationalist Party at the time - the Government, the police force etc., that supported the Nationalist Party?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes, that was certainly our conviction, we've not been able to - in the case of the earlier assassinations in the exile period, those were by and large defence force operations into neighbouring countries.  In the case of the assassination in 1992 - assassination attempt, we've never been able to determine precisely who was behind it but our suspicions were and remain that it had something to do with the apartheid security forces.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Hani was viewed and regarded by many people from that side, as an enemy?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And the reasons behind it - although it's not public, we don't know but the speculation is - as to why they wanted to assassinate Mr Hani in the past, it's because of his track record?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes, certainly during the armed struggle he was a leader of that - he was a leading figure in that armed struggle and he made no bones about that, and accepted that he was - in that period he accepted that he was a target of military action.  After the ending of the armed struggle in 1990, our attitude was that he was no longer a legitimate target - there was no longer an armed struggle being waged, but that there were elements seeking to assassination him, I don't dispute.

MR PRINSLOO: What I'm referring to Mr Cronin, - that's now prior to the unbanning of the ANC, you are referring to subsequent to the events of the unbanning of the ANC and what developed thereafter, is that what you're referring to?

JEREMY CRONIN: I'm saying, prior to the unbanning of the ANC - between 1961 and 1990, there was an armed struggle, Chris Hani was an active participant in that armed struggle and would have seen himself as a military target within that armed struggle.  After 1990 - he was an active leader within the negotiations and peace process in our country, there were still elements in our country seeking to assassinate him.

MR PRINSLOO: Up till when was Mr Hani still the leader of Umkhonto weSizwe?

JEREMY CRONIN: He was not the leader of Umkhonto weSizwe, I think he would have ranked as number three within Umkhonto weSizwe and that was up until December 1991.

MR PRINSLOO: 1991?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: December 1991?

JEREMY CRONIN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: When was it publicised that Mr Hani was no longer involved in Umkhonto weSizwe?

JEREMY CRONIN: In December 1992, it was very, very widely publicised because that was the point at which he accepted election as General Secretary of the South African Communist Party and many political commentators put to him: "Why are you choosing this route, isn't the fast track to ministerial office - to becoming a Minister of Defence or whatever in the future of South Africa, isn't the fast to that particular ambition remaining on within the ANC"? and he said: "Well you know, I remain committed to the ANC but I'm choosing a different career track and that is that I'm taking on the leading position within the SACP".
	So for those who were trying to watch - as you seem to imply in your ...[indistinct], where Chris Hani were heading and whether he was going to be number two or number three or whatever in a future South Africa or a future President, this was certainly of a great - there was a great deal of public speculation around this matter in December 1991 and many people said they couldn't understand Chris Hani taking on this role, he was sidelining himself.