Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-06-01

MR GERBER: Oh yes, very definitely so.  I have the same feeling as that held by my colleagues in the Forces and we were fully prepared to avert this armed attempt upon the Government of the day.  We were prepared to use everything in our power to do so.

UNKNOWN: Did you believe that at that stage you were making progress or losing ground?

MR GERBER: I thought that we were actually  losing ground.  The assaults and attempts became more intense.

UNKNOWN: What motivated you to act in the way that you did act in this particular case?

MR GERBER: The total onslaught which we were experiencing at the time and also statements made by the Government of  the day that strong action had to be taken against these organisations.

UNKNOWN: Your conduct and investigations which you performed at strategic key points such as Sasol field depots, etc., did you there cooperate there with members of the police?

MR GERBER: Yes, throughout.  I cooperated with them, especially where national key installations were concerned and in connection with potential clients who wanted to have their installations declared as strategic keypoints.  Their  greatest fear was a terrorist attack.

UNKNOWN: Were you still a member of the Police Reserve Force at the time?

MR GERBER: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: How was that significant for you?

MR GERBER: Well, I was part of this massive machinery which operated.  Although I was not active on the list I still had to comply with the requirements.

UNKNOWN: Mr Gerber, how do you feel now after all these events?

MR GERBER: Honourable Commission, I have been in prison for 3 1/2  years in a single cell.  I've had enough time to ponder the matter.  We listened to statements made by our President  which strongly supports reconciliation.  I have  a lot of remorse in my heart today.  I don't know if Samuel Ranaka's mother is here today, but I want to apologise this morning, I want to hold out my hand to her and say I am sorry.  I am sorry for what I have done.   Samuel had a lot of opportunities.  I often told him and his colleagues  that  they were playing with fire but they wouldn't listen, they
just continued with what they were doing.   I would like to extend my hand this morning and to ask forgiveness and reconciliation.  But that's not all.  I also want  to apologise to my family from where I am sitting here this morning.  I want to apologise for everything that I have done to them.  I remarried.  I actually forgot to mention that I remarried and my wife has supported me throughout  under very difficult circumstances.  We had many threatening  calls.  I had to sell my big house whilst  I was  in  prison.  And I want to say them thank you.  And  to all my colleagues and friends, all those  whom I disappointed, I  would like to apologise  as well.
	I would like  to ask that other people in my position, they might perhaps not be in prison, but outside, I want to say to them that only a small part of what actually took  place has been disclosed to the public and to the world  at  large, but nobody has actually spoken about the assaults  and attempts on us and our lives, how we were intimidated, shot at, houses burnt down and the terrible battle which we  had to fight as well.  And for that reason  I appeal to everybody out there to come forward and to tell the Commission where things went wrong so that there can be reconciliation in this country.    They say that stress kills and causes you to kill, but nobody talks about how  stress  kills you as a person.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chairperson, that is the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

UNKNOWN: Mr Gerber, you testified that you have always been in contact with the Security Branch, is that correct?

MR GERBER: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Correct then at  the time when this offence was committed you were not a member of any security branch, the South African Police Security Branch, you were not a member?

MR GERBER: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: And will it be further correct that what you did on this particular day, for why you are here, you were doing that in the interests of Fidelity Guards?

MR GERBER: To a certain extent for Fidelity Guards Honourable Commission, but also in respect of the immense onslaught.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you draw the attention of Mr Gerber that he  is entitled to answer in Afrikaans.  If he wants to listen to the headphone just in case he may not understand sufficiently the questions that are put to him in English.

UNKNOWN: Mr Gerber, as the Chairperson has indicated, you are entitled to answer in Afrikaans and you may listen to the interpreters on the headphones if you should need to do that.  If you don't understand  please just tell the Chairperson.

MR GERBER: Thank you.  If I am not clear I will ask.

UNKNOWN: To take up on that.  You said you were acting to a certain extent in the interests of Fidelity Guards.  Can you continue.

MR GERBER: Yes, that is correct.  The company was very important to me, but the onslaught was also very important, the onslaught against Fidelity Guards.  It wasn't just aimed at us, but at all financial institutions.  They were all targets during that time and at that stage the liberation organisations needed funds and finance was a big problem for  them.

UNKNOWN: It is on record,  Mr Gerber, that you interrogated the deceased because of the armed robbery that had taken place, am I correct?

MR GERBER: Yes, that is correct.

UNKNOWN: How is  that connected with the security of the country?

MR GERBER: My sources made me to understand very clearly that  people belonging to these liberation organisations were going to infiltrate firms and that is what in fact happened.  Not only the Fidelity Guards but various other big companies.  Keypoint installations were infiltrated and my chief objective was not only to protect Fidelity Guards but to strengthen the hand of the then Government in every aspect.

UNKNOWN: I understand you very well, but I want us to confine ourselves to the incident at hand.  I said to you that you took this man to investigate or to interrogate him because of the armed robbery that had taken place.  Are we still together there?  Now my question I repeat.   How is this armed robbery connected to the security of the country as a whole?

MR GERBER: At that stage there were about between 40 and 50 armed bank services, branches, it wasn't only the Hillbrow branch, we had branches across South Africa, and this particular crime committed in Hillbrow could very easily have spread to other branches and for that reason it was very important for me to solve this problem because we were dealing here with a gang of people who were totally ruthless  and who would not have stopped at further murder and bloodshed.

UNKNOWN: Was deceased Samuel declared a terrorist?

MR GERBER: I can't tell you Honourable Commission.  My information was that Samuel was a member of the PAC.   Whether he was a member or what I don't know, but he certainly had contact with them.

UNKNOWN: I am going to show to you a letter which is now on the way to you and the members of the Committee.  I want you to have a look at that letter and tell if you know anything about it?

MR GERBER: Yes.  I do know about this letter.

UNKNOWN: Honourable members of the Committee, it was written by the Managing Director, of Fidelity Guards.

UNKNOWN: The date mentioned on the letter is 7 November 1989.  You will agree with me that it is a  year before this offence was committed.  Now when you went with Samuel and your other colleagues to the veld for interrogation, was there any shop steward present?