Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-26

MSOKOLI NQANDU: I was from work, Sir, and when I arrived at the location I saw that there was something happening there.
 I then proceeded to go home and when I passed the Methodist Church I saw that there were people lying there near the school and there was this Municipality lorry somewhere near there.
 I then proceeded to go home and when I got there my wife was there and I asked her "why are you sitting here" and she said, no, you go, I think our children have been shot.
 I then went to this place where the children had been shot. We wanted to go there but the police wouldn't allow us to go near and said that we can't see these children.
 While we were standing around there and ambulance arrived and took them and we followed the ambulance to the hospital. We got to the hospital, it was myself and another guy by the name of Ntuti, in his car. When we got to the hospital the police would not allow us to come near them and they wanted to know "is this your child?" and I said "yes", and they said "no, you may not see them".  They wouldn't even let us go near them and Ntuti, "Goefie, do you know him, do you know me?" and he said "Yes, I know you, you are Ntuti", and we said well OK, we see you, you are here. The policemen said "there is nothing else here for you, you just leave", and we said "No, we can't leave, we would like to see what is going to happen to our child".
 It was not as if he was unconscious or anything, he was looking at us. We were told to go home, we would be able to come and see him the following day. 
 The following day we woke up and I went to work and while I was at work, my wife phoned to say that she had received a call and that it had seems as if that child had passed away.
 I asked permission from my work and we went to the hospital. When we got there we were told that he had passed away and I wanted one question and I wanted to know why he had passed away because when we saw him the previous day, when we were there the previous day, he was still alive and then we were told that he had been shot in his head.
 We said OK and we left, we went home. When we got home, we were told that we should go to the mortuary. We then went and we found all these corpses stacked on top of each other in a corner and we were told to identify which one was our family.
 We identified him. They were just placed there on top of each other, a lot of them and we were told that a post mortem was going to be conducted and we would hear in due course when we could have him.
 We decided that we should consult with the Undertakers and they are the ones that then proceeded to do things for us.

MR SANDI: Were you informed when the post mortem was going to be conducted?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: Yes, we were.

MR SANDI: What were the findings of the post mortem?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: They did not want to say anything to us after conducting the post mortem. When we asked this white man, he said that the police will tell us.

MR SANDI: Do you know the name of the doctor who conducted the post mortem?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: No. I don't know that doctor.

MR SANDI: In your statement, Mr Nqandu, you say that the police came to your house begging you to lay a charge, in other words, lay a charge against somebody?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: That's right.

MR SANDI: But you didn't agree?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: No. I did not.

MR SANDI: Did you have any reasons why you did not want to lay a charge?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: Yes, it is because I didn't shoot my child. They shot my child and I felt that they should be opening a case, because our children were shot and we didn't even know why.

MR SANDI: Is that all you would like to say Mr Nqandu before we go to Mr Salje?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: No Sir. That is not all. Our hearts are very sore about the deaths of our children. Our children didn't do anything, they were at school when they were shot. We are heartbroken. My wife would not even be able to sit here in front and tell you the way she was heartbroken.

MR SANDI: Do you mean to tell us Mr Nqandu that your request to the Commission - what is your request?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: We would like and investigation into this matter so that we can know exactly how our children were killed because we don't know the details.

MR SANDI: Referring to your statement, you say that one of your requests from the Commission is that there be a tombstone. Do you have any reason for lodging that request?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: Yes Sir. Because if help is available, I would like that.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Nqandu. Would you like me to go over to Mr Salje now?

MSOKOLI NQANDU: Yes Sir.

MR SANDI: Good day to you Mr Salje.

HENRY SALJE: Good day, Sir.

MR SANDI: When we spoke during the tea break, you said that you had information about where the police came from, where they had concealed themselves with these branches and come into the location. Could you Mr Salje please take over from there and tell us what you say prior to the police coming into the location?

HENRY SALJE: Yes Sir. I can give you the complete picture but I am going to apologise because about where I saw the branches being loaded.
 I was coming from Sawmills where I was working, near the bridge, on my way home and there is that crossing facing Despatch and . . . . (inaudible)  call that near the location. I was at the stop street there waiting for a bus to go home and I think it was about the 18th April, it was on a Thursday, in 1985.
 While standing there waiting for a bus, a lorry appeared from the direction of Uitenhage, having loaded branches and when they got to the training school, where they learnt to shoot, it stopped on the tar road near the gate and things were bad at the time. 
 This lorry stopped and a hippo appeared from the direction of the location and entered into the training camp where they learned to shoot and stopped near a big tree. I don't know what kind of tree it was. It was obvious that they were going to do something in the location, because the lorry parked behind the tree.
 Two policemen alighted from the hippo, the others remained in the hippo and they got under the branches in this truck and I realised that these boys are up to something. There is definitely something that these boys are up to. They planned something about us.

MR SANDI: What time was it, was it in the morning?

HENRY SALJE: I come out of work at 5 'o clock, by 6 o'clock I am at home. So, it was still day, be that as it may, I realised that these policemen were up to something, they wanted to do something with us there at Despatch.
 Since there was no bus, I stopped a car. You must remember it cost me 30c to get home, but I paid somebody R2 to take me home, to save our children from the lions. Fair enough, God had sent a car that took me, but this man spoke with a Zulu accent and took me home and I was limping, but I ran to tell our children that they must watch out for this Blue Municipality lorry with branches over, and they mustn't dare go near that truck.
 I ran past No. 6 and No. 5 to my house at No. 4, and I put my bag on the table and as I walked out, the shots rang out and they started shooting.
 The Boers shot. They had stopped near the school, near Mr Mbolekwa's house. It appears that a lot of other people were injured as well. 
 That lorry had stopped by that time and the police were shooting and that is all I want to say.

MR SANDI: The Mr Mbolekwa you are referring to, is it the man that gave evidence here?

HENRY SALJE: Yes.

MR SANDI: Thank you very much Mr Salje. I would like to hand over to you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Revd. Mxundu.
REVD. XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
 Did you know any of these policemen?

HENRY SALJE: No, I did not know any of them, because when they got to this training school, this range, they were wearing blue clothes, like the policemen present here today. White policemen, there were no black policemen amongst them.
REVD. XUNDU: Thank you very much Sir.