Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

MR PRIOR: And if the witness had finished answering that part I was going on to suggest to him that in the bar there were other people in attendance.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, carry on and do so.

MR PRIOR: Could you maybe just - I didn't want to mislead you in any way.  There might be a suggestion that that is what is happening but what I wanted to demonstrate to you by my question was, the impression I got from your evidence was that your target was the Nationalist Party with their VIP bodyguards, with the police and with the South African defence force present at that gathering and I wanted to draw a clear distinction that the dining room in which you threw the handgrenade was the Wine Tasting Club, they were having their year-end.
	The gold day, which I understand was held or organised by Mr Radu, the NP, the golf had come to an end, there certainly may have been or probably were members having a drink in the pub but they were certainly not all concentrated and gathered in the diningroom as seemed to be suggested by your evidence, that that was the object of your attack.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  The afternoon session we were told, it's the one which was going to be formal, I mean we received firsthand information.  And then the informal part where people would be enjoying themselves was going to be the one in the evening and that is exactly why we saw it, that this is an appropriate time to, appropriate time to launch the attack, I mean, to achieve the element of surprise.

MR PRIOR: Yes, I follow what you're saying.   So you saw the distinction, that there was a formal golf day and after those formalities had been - after the golf had been completed, there was the functions afterwards?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: What we know, we didn't - to the effect that there were two different occasions.

MR PRIOR: You didn't have that information, that there were going to be two different functions?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: We took it as one occasion but the first one is going to be the formal one and then thereafter people enjoy themselves.

MR PRIOR: Alright.  When you arrived at the golf club, did it surprise you that there were no guards or security at the premises, given the fact that your understanding, that there were military personnel in attendance there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: One thing we were sure of, that the people there were not expecting to be attacked and because of that element there was no way - I mean, even in the military you will find a situation whereby there are no guards, were there is no threat or where senior commanders have made their appreciation so that there is no - in their threat analysis, there is no threat.
	When there is threat the guard system is intensified, so they were not expecting to be attacked, so it was a complete surprise.

MR PRIOR: I'm asking you, were you not  surprised to see that there was no security outside the premises, given your intelligence that fairly highranking military and police personnel were in attendance there that evening?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: We - I obviously could not expect those people you have just mentioned to be manning a guard, I expected them to be part of the party.

ADV SANDI: You mean to say Mr Xundu, that you were not expecting them to be in uniform?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I expected them to be wearing - dressed to kill in their suits.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understood what you were saying is that you did expect senior police officers of senior army officers to be on guard outside the building, you expected them to be at the function.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

MR PRIOR: But that wasn't the question, with respect.  The question, with respect, was: "Did it not surprise you that there was no security outside, given the fact that you believed and your intelligence that there were senior military and police personnel attending that function?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I mean, what was ...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: The absence of any security at that function, did that not start you thinking about who was inside the premises?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  Can you please, could it be so kind of you to phrase your question this way: "Any security in guard".

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman with respect, I don't understand the distinction.  I thought the question was very clear, that ...[intervention]

MR LAX: Sorry Mr Prior, I think he's answered your question because he said earlier that these people weren't expecting to be attacked, that's why he didn't even think they would have set up any guards in the first place.

MR PRIOR: So he thought, alright.
	Are you saying then that it did not surprise you that there was no security of whatever nature outside the King William's Town Golf Club?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja, given the background that I've given you about the attack, I was not surprised.

MR PRIOR: Was there any arrangement or any discussion or any precaution taken about injuring the staff of the King William's Town Golf Club, particularly the black staff?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No, we did not plan on the base of the black staff, unfortunately.

MR PRIOR: What do you mean by that?  If they were in the cross-fire, that would just be bad luck for them?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.  It was common sense that there could be one or two of them and if he is there he must be the one cooking.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, one?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: One cooking, doing the cooking in the kitchen.

MR PRIOR: Well, according to the list ...[intervention]

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I didn't expect them to be part of the - really.

MR PRIOR: My understanding is that there were two employees that were injured, a Mrs Xediswa Kaiele and Mrs Tlamata, were injured in the attack when the grenades and/or the shooting occurred, are you saying you expected those persons or those employees to be in the kitchen?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And not moving around in the area where the attack or the danger was?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Not at all.

MR PRIOR: And you never saw them in the diningroom area when you lobbed the grenade amongst the people seated there and when you discharged your rifle at the people there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I mean, I could not have the time to look at their faces one by one.

MR PRIOR: But you never saw them ...[intervention]

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I mean, I could look at them from this way and see the whole of them and ...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: You never saw black people amongst those white patrons there?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Perhaps because I was not looking for them I didn't see them.

MR PRIOR: You've looked at the photographs that I've presented to your legal representative and which was marked Exhibit C?   You've gone through those photographs?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes, please.

MR PRIOR: Do you accept that those photographs depict the aftermath of your operation, that is, the result of your operation?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: I cannot deny that.

MR PRIOR: And you accepted them obviously?  Now, I want to refer to the report at page 63 of the bundle.  There's a typed copy and then page at 65 onwards is a hand-written report, it's an "operation record" and it says: "Lebene regiment".  Was that written in your own hand, that report?

CHAIRPERSON: What page?

MR PRIOR: The typed transcript is 63, 64 of the bundle and the hand-written report Mr Chairman, 65, 66, 67 of the transcript.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja, first of all I understand this was part of the document that legitimately belonged to the PAC and APLA that the SAP ...[no English translation].  That is what I understand about these things.

MR PRIOR: No.  Please, without giving a comment Mr Xundu, the question is: "Was this report written up by you"?  How the police got it doesn't really concern us at this stage, but was that report written in your hand?