Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-16

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Du Preez and Mr Taylor.

ADV BOSMAN: But this is what I don't understand.  Mr du Preez said that he couldn't remember, as a matter of fact he testified that only last week did he establish that he had arrested him in connection with his trade union activities and this puzzles me, who jolted whose memory?  Did you jolt Mr du Preez's memory, or did he jolt your memory?  How did this come about?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, the Bulwer railway line, the elimination of him at the Bulwer railway line, jolted the memory and during the composition of our statements then Mr du Preez didn't mention anything about arresting, so I presume he had forgotten that portion, but we did recall eliminating Ninela on the railway line.

ADV BOSMAN: In what respect did you jolt Mr du Preez's memory?  Can you tell us?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, I was the person who shot Mr Ninela.

ADV BOSMAN: One would expect you to have remembered that, but was there as far as the other detail which we have heard about this morning is concerned, what did you remember that Mr du Preez had forgotten?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Between the two of us we recalled going to the shooting range to collect Mr Ninela and then transporting him out to a likely site in Bulwer.

ADV BOSMAN: And who recalled what Taylor had told you?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Mr du Preez recalled the limpet mine, then I recalled that episode taking place and between us we recalled what Mr Taylor basically said.  I can't remember who remembered what sentence where, but it's a long time ago and he was not really a subject of mine.  He wasn't under my attention, Mr Ninela.

ADV BOSMAN: And was it between the two of you that you remembered sufficient to say that Mr Taylor's application is a confused version of what had happened there?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: It's definitely a confused version, especially the fact that he accompanied us.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.  Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR VISSER: Yes, sorry Mr Chairman, with your leave.

MR VISSER: Mr Wasserman, did you, were you instrumental at pointing out the precise point where Ninela was killed and blown up to the investigation unit of the TRC?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Did you also- this happened during approximately January 1997, I'm told.

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That must be correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: And did you then accompany members of the investigation unit to the scene?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: And thereafter here in Durban in I believe July that year, 1997, did you make yourself available for questioning by the investigation unit?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's correct, Mr Chair.

MR VISSER: And in this process during that period of time, were you able to recall aspects of this incident and refresh your memory along what you have seen at the scene of the crime as well as in preparing for the questioning?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: And did it occur to you that the investigation team was busy with a pretty thorough investigation?

LAWRENCE G WASSERMAN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I see I've gone a minute, two minutes over the time.  I do apologise for that Mr Chairman.

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you wish to put questions?

MS THABETHE: No, Mr Chair, can I make a request?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: I realise it's 1 o'clock and with the permission of the Committee and my colleagues, I would have suggested that we continue the other applicant's evidence, I don't think it will take that long, so that after lunch we start with the victim's case.  I don't know whether that's acceptable to you?

CHAIRPERSON: I have no idea how long the evidence of this other applicant is going to be.

MS THABETHE: I don't know whether my learned colleague can give us an indication?

MR RORICH: I have no objection to that Mr Chair, but the evidence may be in the vicinity of half an hour.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, we'll take the adjournment now and resume in 45 minutes.

MS THABETHE: As it pleases you, Mr Chair.

MR RORICH: As it pleases.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS