Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-28

MR NONTENJA: My Lord, I just - I wanted to ask him, in fact, as he indicated right from the beginning that he was not personally  involved in that operation, I just wanted to find out from him whether he was aware of this incident which occurred at Sprigg Street.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you aware of an incident that occurred in Sprigg Street immediately after?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: No, I was not aware of anything that happened in Sprigg Street.

CHAIRPERSON: You see, I appreciate what your position is because it's not been put to you in any detail.  We talk about the incident.  We must now assume it was a violent incident related to your unit's activities, that's why I asked Mr Nontenja, you know, give us some details so that we could connect it.  It may be some other incident, like a knife stabbing or something that had nothing to do with your unit.  We don't know and that's why I think it's better to clearly put it to the witness, maybe he can say:  "Look, I know" or "I don't know".

MR NONTENJA: Thank you Judge.  Mr Mafu, it is alleged that immediately after the commission of the operation at Madeira Street the members of your unit attacked person in Sprigg Street.  Are you aware of that?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: I'm not aware of that incident, Mr Nontenja.  What I know is that during the commission of the operation there was another member of the unit who was deployed outside the police station, because there were some policemen coming in, so I know there was shooting and outside the police station.  I'm not aware of Madeira Street.

CHAIRPERSON: Of Sprigg Street.

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Of Sprigg Street, I'm sorry.

MR NONTENJA: My Lord, I don't have any further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NONTENJA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair.

MS THABETHE: Mr Mafu, I also don't have any questions with regard to the incidents you've applied for, except just to clarify the issue of dates and maybe one other aspect.  On page 27 of the bundle there's a newspaper article, do you have sight of it?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Okay.  In the third column towards the end, there's a line which says
"Following a bomb attack at Mzamba One Stage hotel on April 18 1986..."
then it goes on.   Would you concede that this is the date?  Do you have any problem with that, that this is the date on which this incident happened?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: As I'm saying Ma'am, I might not be sure of the sequence of events.  I'm not sure.  I can't dispute that that was the date.

MS THABETHE: Okay.  Also on page 27 of the bundle, the second column now, further up, there's a paragraph starting with
"After details of shoot-out ..."
Do you have sight of that paragraph?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Yes.

MS THABETHE: It makes mention of Zolile Nklati as the Commander of the ANC's military machinery in Transkei.  Do you have any knowledge of this person?  Was this person the military Commander?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Well as you are aware Ma'am, this was not written by me, it must have come from somewhere else.  I know that we went under very different names.  At some stage, Makadeza was Zolile, he had gone under different names.  I don't know who Zolile Nklati is.

MS THABETHE: Thank you Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

MR MGIDLANA: Thank you Judge.  Just a follow up Mr Mafu on this Zolile Nklati.  You'll see that it appears there that there were four people involved in this incident, as mentioned in that report.  How many people were involved in that particular operation?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: In the operation we were three.  As I've mentioned, it was Kaya, Maziz, Makadeza and myself.

MR MGIDLANA: Sorry you were saying that people were going under different names.  Did I get you as mentioning Makadeza as one of the persons commonly known as Zolile?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Yes, I'm saying that at one stage he went under the name Zolile.

MR MGIDLANA: So shall we take it therefore that that could be a repetition, one and the same person?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Maybe.

MR MGIDLANA: But otherwise you are certain that there was no other person by that name involved in that particular incident?

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: That's correct.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MGIDLANA

MR LAX: Mr Mafu, you'll accept if one looks again at page 27 in the first column towards the bottom there's an underlined portion which refers to the shoot-out as having occurred on the 21st and 22nd.  From that we will infer that your involvement was on the 22nd.

BASIL DUMISANE MAFU: Correct.

MR LAX: It just helps us peg the date clearly.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mgidlana, have you got any argument.  Before that, have you got any other witnesses?

MR MGIDLANA: No, there's no other witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nontenja, have you got any witnesses?

MR NONTENJA: No witness to call.

MS THABETHE: No witnesses.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got any submissions to make?

MR MGIDLANA: Yes, very few Judge.

UNKNOWN: My submission is that from the evidence of the applicant, it is clear that he committed these particular offences as a member of an identifiable political organisation, namely the African National Congress as well as being a member of the Military Wing of the ANC, namely Umkhonto weSizwe.
	Furthermore it is clear that the targets were targets that were associated with the political order in existence in the area called Transkei.  They were indeed Government installations, even in respect of Mzamba, we have heard that the Transkei Government was owning the portion of whatever share holding was there and as such deriving some funds for the operation of that Government.  
	There is no evidence suggesting that the applicant committed these offences in furtherance of his own ambition, personal ambition.  He was involved in all these incidents in furtherance of the struggle, he being on the side of the liberation movement, fighting against an oppressive government that we all know was in existence in that area and as such he did not derive any benefit.  There hasn't been any suggestion made to the effect that he has not made any full disclosure and as such my submission is that his evidence has just been so clear and is in compliance with the promotion of Reconciliation Act and as such he has made full disclosure and it is my submission that he qualifies to be granted amnesty and I therefore apply that such amnesty be granted in the favour of the applicant.   That is all.

MR NONTENJA: Thank you.  Thank you Judge.

UNKNOWN: According to the instructions of my clients, although they are not opposed to the granting of the application, but they do not have the final detail to that effect, it is therefore in the hands of this Honourable Committee to make a finding accordingly.  Thank you.

MS THABETHE: I have no objections to amnesty being granted.
NO ARGUMENT BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  We will reserve our decision in this matter and it will be delivered in due course.

MR MGIDLANA: Thank you Judge.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe, what is the position at the moment?

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair, the position is that I had set down three matters for today.  The Mafu matter, Mahambane matter and the Pilay matter.  I haven't seen Mr Pilay yet.  Mr Mahambane is here.  I had requested the legal representatives to be here at 2, the representatives in the matter of Mahambane, but I did telephone them and requested them to come earlier.  The lawyer for the victims is present, I've seen her.  Ms Loonat is on her way.  She said she'd be here by half past 12, so I would request an indulgence of maybe five to ten minutes and I'll let the Committee know as soon as they are here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, so be it.

MS THABETHE: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS