Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

ADV SIGODI: In other words, you just wrote the name on the basis of suspicion, you did not go to any Sangoma, or traditional, or witch-doctor, to identify who were the witches in the village?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: No, we didn't go to the witch-doctors or anybody to find out that, but people were saying that according to their experience as they grew up.

ADV SIGODI: Okay.

MR NDOU: Thank you.  Then what happened to the list?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: What happened is that we went to the headman's kraal.  On our arrival we gathered there, then two kids were appointed and left and they were given an envelope with that letter, so that they can submit it to the headman and then the headman could come and speak with the people.
	And then the headman arrived and read the letter which was written.  It's then that letter, he said that he wanted to find out the feeling of the people by himself and the people pointed out that they wanted those people to be evicted because they no longer wanted to stay with them.
	What was funny is that the headman concurred with, to such an extent that he gave us a car so that those people should be followed to their homes, so that they can be called and come, but he said they must be allowed to board his car.  So that he was supporting our statement, because it seems he was knowing that they were practising witchcraft.
	Some of them arrived.  Those who arrived, some agreed that no, they will leave the country.  Then they were told to go and then they agreed, but Edward Mahvunga did not agree.

CHAIRPERSON: Did all of them agree when persuaded or ...?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Some agreed, except Edward Mahvunga

CHAIRPERSON: How many came?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Three women and Edward Mahvunga.

MR NDOU: And after agreeing that they will leave, did they later on leave?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, later on they left.

MR NDOU: And you say all these happenings were taking place after the release of President Nelson Mandela, is that right?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, that's right.

MR NDOU: Now what happened when Edward refused to go?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Edward pointed out that he won't go in that country or village and mentioned that he cannot be given instructions by the headman who was there at the time.
	Then he pointed out that he will not co-operate with anything which will be mentioned in that village.  And he pointed out that he will do his own things alone.  So meaning that he will not co-operate or listen anything.  This is, he will do what he wants, as he wishes and not what the headman intended to do.
	At the end the crowd dispersed and the meeting was over.  As this went on ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Did he say so in front of everybody?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Could you please repeat your question?

CHAIRPERSON: Did he say so in front of everybody?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, in front of everybody.

CHAIRPERSON: How many people heard this?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: There were many people there.

MR NDOU: Yes?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: There were incidents which occurred later on.

MR NDOU: Which incidents?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Incidents in connection with the deceased, Mr Edward Mahvunga, and others who are amongst us here.

MR NDOU: What happened?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: After when Mr Mahvunga denied to leave the village, what happened is that there were intimidations which were made against some of the youth.  And that thing, because of that problem with the deceased of refusing to go, there were meetings which were held in-between.
	We tried to gather the whole village.  In fact, all the people gathered and went to the place of Mr Edward Mahvunga.  On their arrival they requested him to take what belongs to him and leave the country.

MR NDOU: Is that on the 6th of April?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: No, that was not that day.

MR NDOU: Okay.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: It's then that we decided to find out an alternative route which would lead to Mr Mahvunga's eviction.  Then we decided to call the commanders of the police, maybe they will help to make him leave the country, or village.
	And then people were appointed to go and fetch the police commanders and then they came back with them.  The commander who was there was with the leader of the Defence Force.  What happened is that we explained what we were fighting for and they were put clear on why they were called upon.  And then they went to the home of the deceased and then they negotiated with him.  It's then that the deceased refused, saying that he won't go.
	Then they tried to persuade him in all ways possible.  It's then that he ended up refusing to leave.  Those commanders of the police and the Defence Force came back to us and indicated that they are unable to help us in getting the man to leave the village. 	And the people pointed out that "If the deceased is not going, if something at the end will happened, don't be surprised if we take other steps because we have tried in all ways possible, we even followed the legal routes, we called upon you, the legal people, to come and help us", but they were also unable to get him to go.
	At the end that day we dispersed.  Then there was an item in which we were supposed to meet again.  The people were going to gather at that village, at that home or kraal.  It's that day where the incident of killing the deceased happened.

MR NDOU: That was on the 6th of April?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes.

MR NDOU: Okay.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: It's then that the people pleaded with the deceased to leave and the deceased refused to go, saying that he won't do such a thing.  And then he did say that he is going to fight on and he will defend himself, so that he cannot be evicted.
	What happened is that there were differences, which led to a fight.  What happened is that there was a war between the deceased and all the people who were there at that moment.

MR NDOU: And you were also part of the group?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, I was part of the group.  What happened is that we tried to find things like petrol, so that it can be used in what would be taking place in that kraal.

MR NDOU: Who brought the petrol?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: The person who was sent to collect the petrol, I don't remember, but it was also in my possession by then.  I also collected money for the petrol to be bought.

MR NDOU: Yes?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Again what happened is that the fight was on and the deceased was being assisted by his children and his wife.  The fight took a long time.  What happened then is that I managed to get inside the yard of that kraal.
	On entering the yard I managed to pour petrol in the car and light it and it started to burn.  Then I ran away, outside the yard.  As the fight was on, people were saying there is a room where people are not allowed to enter and then the people of that home were not allowed to enter that room.
	So what I did, I took that petrol and broke the windows of that house, of that room or house and looked through the window what was inside.  I found that there was a big jacket and a baby bed.  There was a jacket which was very big and a small bed for kids.  People said there are things inside, I must be careful, but I said there is nothing.  People said "Burn it, you will see them running away, getting out".  Then I poured petrol on the curtains and everything which was there.  Then I lit inside there.  Then I ran away again.  
	The deceased was not yet dead and the kids and the wife were still there and they tried to make that room ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Just tell me something.  When you burnt these curtains in this room, did anything happen?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: We watched to see if something will happen, but nothing happened.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR NDOU: Yes, proceed.