Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you finished, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Mr Chairperson, I again neglected to ask something.

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

MR VISSER: Mr Visagie -  can you recall whether, during the events of the particular evening upon which Mrs Khubeka died, whether you saw him there at the scene?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I cannot recall.

MR VISSER: Therefore you wouldn't really be able to say what his share was, if any, in this event?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Mr Nel, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the witness?

MR NEL: Thank you Mr Chairman, only one.

MR NEL: Mr du Preez can you recall in any way whether Mr Spyker Myeza was involved in this incident in any way on that evening or that day?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, I cannot recall.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Merwe, do you have any questions you'd like to ask?

MR VAN DER MERWE: I have no questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DER MERWE

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Botha, do you have any questions you'd like to ask.  Just for record purposes, Ms Botha is standing in for Mr Hugo who is involved in another matter held in these same premises.

MS BOTHA: Mr du Preez, during the meeting and delivery at Battery Beach, did you in any way see Mr Simon Radebe there in the vicinity?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I cannot recall.  I cannot recall whether I would have been able to identify any of the persons as being present there.

MS BOTHA: Because Mr Radebe will say later that he drove the vehicle and because he was seated behind the steering wheel, he activated the indicator light, but you cannot recall seeing him there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It is possible.

MS BOTHA: And when you arrived at Winkelspruit, you were sent to buy food, how long were you away?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I cannot recall the length of time which I was away, all that I can recall about the incident is that when I returned Botha, informed me about the death of Khubeka.

MS BOTHA: And when you returned after buying food, did you see Mr Simon Radebe anywhere there in the area?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No.

MS BOTHA: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTION BY MS BOTHA

MR LAX: Can I just follow up?  Did you go and buy food, or did you go and get on with other duties, because your evidence so far is that you went and did other duties?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think that among others I went to buy food.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, where would you have gone in relation to the place, the shooting range at Winkelspruit, to buy that food?  Would it have been very close by or would you have had to drive some distance, or did you walk there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I cannot recall precisely what I went to do.  My recollection of the incident is that when I returned, Botha told me about the incident.

MR LAX: How long were you away for?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I cannot recall.  I cannot say with certainty.

MR LAX: Was it several hours, or was it 10 minutes?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I really cannot recall.

MR VAN DER MERWE: Sorry, Mr Chairman, maybe in the light of these questions, there's just maybe one question which I neglected to put to the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr van der Merwe you may ask questions.

MR VAN DER MERWE: Mr du Preez, in terms of these questions, my instructions from Mr Baker are that on that specific evening he also drove with you when you went to buy food, do you recall anything like that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I do not recall who accompanied me.  It is possible that he drove with me.

MR VAN DER MERWE: And that at the stage, when you returned, he was with you when you were informed that Mrs Khubeka had passed away.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is possible, Chairperson.

MR VAN DER MERWE: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER MERWE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Samuel, do you have any questions you'd like to ask the witness?

MR SAMUEL: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR SAMUEL: Maj du Preez, on the morning in question, do you recall what were the instructions given to Mr Jimmy Mbane, or Mr Radebe for that matter?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, I did not speak to them.

MR SAMUEL: Were you present at the meeting when the instructions were given to either Mr Radebe or Mr Jimmy Mbane as to what they should do in regard to Ms Khubeka?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, I wasn't.

MR SAMUEL: Do you know any reason as to why Ms Khubeka was brought to Mr Botha and yourself on that day?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, when we departed for the beach front, I understood that the C1 members would bring the terrorists to this rendezvous point.

MR LAX: If I may interpose, Mr Samuel?  You've just referred to terrorists in the plural that were going to be brought to this point, have I understood you correctly?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, that is what I understood, that we would meet a terrorist or terrorists there, that they would bring a terrorist or terrorists to the rendezvous point.

MR LAX: What were you going to do at the meeting place with the terrorists?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: We would arrest them.

MR LAX: So one or more would be irrelevant, you were going to arrest whoever came to that place?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Samuel, you may proceed.

MR SAMUEL: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Jimmy Mbane will confirm that he was given instructions to pick up Ms Khubeka from the Durban station and bring her to Battery Beach, but going on from there, do you recall who was in the vehicle that brought Ms Khubeka?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, I cannot recall who the persons were.

MR SAMUEL: So if Mr Radebe and Mr Dube were present in that vehicle, you would not be able to recall that.  Am I right?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I cannot recall that.

MR SAMUEL: Mr Mbane's version will be that when they came to Battery Beach with Ms Khubeka, Mr Radebe and Mr Dube were present in the vehicle.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It is possible.

MR SAMUEL: Do you recall whether you met Mr Jimmy Mbane after he had handed over Ms Khubeka to yourselves?

CHAIRPERSON: You mean on the same day?

MR SAMUEL: The same day, yes.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.

MR SAMUEL: Now, do you recall whether Ms Khubeka was handcuffed or tied up when she was put into the vehicle in which you were in?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I cannot recall whether she was cuffed during the journey to Winkelspruit but in the kombi we pressed her down.  It was a panel van which was open at the back.  There weren't any seats in the vehicle and she was blindfolded.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr du Preez, is it not so that it would have been common practice to cuff somebody in those circumstances? I mean when you detain a person, or abduct a person, or apprehend a person, wouldn't it just be second nature for you or any other policeman to cuff the detainee?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson, but I cannot recall specifically whether this was done or not.  We would have kept her under force.  As far as I can recall, after she had been placed in the vehicle, she did not struggle to break loose or anything like that.

MR SAMUEL: Thank you.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Maj du Preez, Major Mr Jimmy Mbane will tell this Commission that when he arrived back at Winkelspruit with Mr Dube and Mr Radebe, he had noticed that Ms Khubeka was tied both hand and foot and she was also blindfolded.  Can you admit or deny that?