Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR MARAIS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Tshikalanga, you were telling the committee about your family relationship and how many children you were.  How many were there?

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible) ... not getting an English interpretation.

CHAIRPERSON: Is his evidence being interpreted into English?

WITNESS:   What I said was, what you were asking me was about my birth place.  I did tell you where I was born, Sibasa, in Venda.  That is the main town, Sibasa.  Secondly you asked me about the family members at home.  What I am trying to answer you is all about my family situation.  We - I was referring to the family members from my mother, in accordance to your question.  I am not talking about my own family, my children.

MR MARAIS: And how many brothers and sisters did you have?

WITNESS:   I had only one sister and there were about five brothers.

MR MARAIS: Mr Tshikalanga, how far did you advance in school?

WITNESS:   I did pass standard eight.

MR MARAIS: And was your family a religious one?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MARAIS: Was there political discussion and awareness in your family?

WITNESS:   No, there wasn't anything like that.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... did you meet Dirk Coetzee?

WITNESS:   I met Dirk Coetzee - well, if I am not mistaken or forgetful that was in 1973.

MR MARAIS: Where did you meet him?

WITNESS:   That was at Sibasa.

MR MARAIS: And did you then work for him in his garden?

WITNESS:  Yes, after school I used to work in his garden as a gardener.

MR MARAIS: /(Inaudible)

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... happen that you ended up at Vlakplaas?

WITNESS:   Well, I can simply say that all the time when I was attending school my main aim was to finally work as a policeman.

MR MARAIS: But you started working at Vlakplaas before you became a policeman, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR MARAIS: What kind of work did you do then?

WITNESS:   Well, I  was just an ordinary worker in ordinary types of jobs.  Like, for instance, I used to cook for some wives or some foreigners, people like Mkehle, and there were a lot of people who used to come to such places from other countries.

MR MARAIS: And was Dirk Coetzee then already at Vlakplaas when you arrived there?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was already there.

MR MARAIS: When did you then join the police force?

WITNESS:   I joined in 1981.

MR MARAIS: And when did you do your training at Hammanskraal?

WITNESS:   That was in the same year, 1981, there in Vlakplaas.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... between 1973 and 1983 what kind of work did you do?

WITNESS:   Well, what I can say is during school holidays I used to phone Dirk Coetzee and tell him that I will be coming for a visit, like in Volksrust or in Oshoek or in Middelburg.

MR MARAIS: So you followed Dirk Coetzee wherever he went?

WITNESS:  Apparently I can say that.  That is what I was doing, because I used to visit him quite often.

MR MARAIS: During November 1981 you were still a student constable, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MARAIS: What did you know at that time about the ANC?

WITNESS:  Well, as a person who was staying with people who some of

MR MARAIS: /them were

MR MARAIS: them were coming from Mozambique or elsewhere - Zimbabwe, and even including askaris who were defectors from the ANC, that is - well, I heard a lot of things from those people.

MR MARAIS: Was that at Vlakplaas where you heard these things?

WITNESS:   Yes, indeed.

MR MARAIS: Did you regard the ANC and other resistance movements as the enemy of the State?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MARAIS: Did you receive any training at Vlakplaas?

WITNESS:   Are you referring to the year 1981, or - because I was a student constable, and after that I went to the college.  I am not sure exactly which specific year you are referring to.

MR MARAIS: Did you receive training at Vlakplaas before you went for your training at Hammanskraal?

WITNESS:   No, the training - there was no formal training other than these ordinary things which askaris were telling us.

MR MARAIS: Do you remember what month you went to Hammanskraal?

WITNESS:   If I am not mistaken it could be in 1981, November. December, I am sorry.

MR MARAIS: During November 1981 you were in the Durban area with a group from Vlakplaas, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR MARAIS: And during this time you received instructions that a certain lawyer had to be killed, is that correct?

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR MARAIS: From who did you receive the instructions?

WITNESS:   What I can say is during the time when they took me there were other askaris who were with me.  I can't remember who they were.  It was in the hotel or disco-like place.  Almond and Joe Mamasela and Brian Ngulungwa,those are the people who took me there.

MR MARAIS: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: The question was not that, you know.  The question is did you receive instructions?

MR MARAIS: Mr Chairman, the question was from whom did he receive the instructions.

WITNESS:   Shall I answer that?  I was instructed by Joe Mamasela and Almond, who had received it from Dirk Coetzee as he had been the one who was responsible in giving authority.

MR MARAIS: What instructions did you receive from them?

WITNESS:  What they told me was that there was a specific person who had to be eliminated by means of knives, not through guns or whatever.  We had to kill him using knives.

MR MARAIS: Were you told why?

WITNESS:   Yes, because it was to be like a robbery kind of an activity.

MR MARAIS: Did you accompany the group while surveillance was done of the house of the lawyer and the office where he worked?

WITNESS:   If my memory still serves me well I think there was a time when I saw his photo, and then if I am not mistaken I also seen the office, which was a double-story one right here in town.

MR MARAIS: Can you describe the events that occurred on the day of the actual killing of Mr Mxenge?

WITNESS:   Yes.  On the day when Mxenge was killed we left for - when we were four.  It was a little bit drizzling, it was raining a little bit.  And then we went - I think the house was on a hill.  Well, we were travelling towards that and there was a red Passat which just emerged, and we were told that it was his wife getting out.  It was a station wagon car.  Then the car passed.  Lucky enough not long - before long another car appeared behind it.  That was an Audi car, and we were told it was him, and Almond got off the car and opened the bonnet of the car, pretending as if there was

MR MARAIS: /a problem

MR MARAIS: a problem from the car.  Then he ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... further confusion.  Which car is he talking about?  Obviously not Mr Mxenge's car.

WITNESS:  You mean the one which was from the house or the one which followed, or which one are you referring to?

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... somebody opened the bonnet of a car.  Was that the car that you were in?

WITNESS:   That was the car we were using on travelling, the one we used when we were travelling.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   If I am not mistaken it could be Almond.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... four of you.  Who were the other two there?

WITNESS:   It was Joe Mamasela, Brian Ngulungwa, Almond Nofomela and myself.  Who we were - ja, all in all four.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... bonnet of your car then to pretend that you had a problem with the car, is that correct?

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Thereafter, after a while - that was after this Mxenge car had been parked behind that van, because now the way was not so wide in such a way that it could pass.  Then thereafter that is when Almond and Joe Mamasela and Brian Ngulungwa went to him straight away and hinted that they had a problem, they wanted some jumpers, as if the battery was flat.  After all I suddenly heard them say to me, "You must bring the car, follow us," and then they were driving along.

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... did you go to then?