Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: When we were consulting with our legal advisors, I maintained then that I was justified in my actions but I was then advised that things could have happened otherwise as I saw them and I was told that the possibility exists or other Committees, courts etc may find that things did not necessarily happen the way I said they did and it could be found that I had exceeded the bounds of self defence.  I was therefore upon those basis advised to apply for amnesty and I did.

MR TIPP: Do you concede now that it is possible that you might have exceeded the bounds of self defence?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes I do.

MR TIPP: On what do you base that concession?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: I was shown the both the medical - I was shown the ballistic evidence and was told of the medical report and the medical reports indicate that most of the people who got injured and who were killed were shot from behind and therefore the possibility therefore exists that they might have been struck by a bullet from my pistol from behind.  The possibility exists also that I might have shot one or two bullets more than it was necessary.

MR TIPP: Do you concede that it follows from - from what you have just said, when you say that they might have been shot from behind that if it was your bullet that struck those people, or bullets that struck those people, that you fired those shots after those marchers who were struck, had stopped their attack?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: A possibility exists, yes.

MR TIPP: You were talking also about the ballistic evidence that was shown to you?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes.

MR TIPP: And what do you understand from that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: My understanding of the ballistic evidence is that my perception and my recollection of events as I state that I shot because I was fired at indicates that actually the barrel of the gun from the marchers was not necessarily directed at me.  It indicates that it was directed somewhere else, but nonetheless, at that moment I heard gunfire, I saw marchers charging.  The only thing that came into my mind under those circumstances was that the marchers were shooting at me, but it was clear then that what I thought was is not.

MR TIPP: Has this ever happened to you before?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes it had happened.  I am going to quickly try and illustrate, for about a minute or so, that in a military situation one was in Angola and we had to travel lots and lots of kilometres from one camp to the other and on this particular incident, when we were leaving Luanda for one of our camps in the north of Angola, it was a very long journey and we were in a convey and it was a single route in and single route out and the information that we had was that there was a possibility of an ambush on that road and we were tense and nervous because you are not sure as to where exactly the ambush is going to be carried out.
	We are sitting on a truck that's moving very slowly because it's a very long convoy and what complicates things is that in Angola the civilians who also wanted to travel that route could not do that on their own because they would be ambushed, they then seek refuge amongst us and we could not deny them that refuge because we were trained soldiers and we were armed so we would allow their cars and trucks to be part of our convoy which then made things even difficult for us because they're breaking our own convoy, but nonetheless we did that and having that in our minds, we were tense because we have dual responsibility that should an ambush ensue, you have a responsibility to protect yourself, to protect your other comrades, but further more you have civilians that you cannot just leave, you have to try and protect them.  Should it happen that because it's not a tarred road, it's dirt road and it's bumpy, people cock their weapons and we are told that you can cock your weapon but don't put your finger on the trigger.  
	Because of fright and other things some of the soldiers would nonetheless put the finger on the trigger to be more ready than the others and by accident a truck goes into a ditch and out and you have your finger and accidentally you pull a trigger, that shot comes from this truck, from your own cadre, the reaction is that should that happen everybody on the truck jumps out, takes cover and others went to an extent of actually shooting to a direction which they thought the fire came from when in actual fact that shot emanated from here.  
	So it is that mindset then that you expect to be ambushed should somebody accidentally shoot, your mind tells you that the enemy is shooting at you and you jump out, take cover and others would shoot so this, yes it did happen.

MR TIPP: This actually happened to you in Angola?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes it did.

MR TIPP: Mr Beea, very briefly, you say in paragraph 10 of you amnesty application at page 83 that the political objective which you sought to be achieved was to protect the election process and the ANC leadership and property.  Could you briefly elaborate on that?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: As a member of the ANC one had a responsibility and that responsibility was to protect, at all times, the leadership of the ANC first and foremost and the property of the ANC, protect yourself and to always try and protect you comrades, if I understood your question.

MR TIPP: Could you - you've already told the Committee that that's why you shot at the crowd, to protect yourself, to protect the ANC, to protect the leadership.  How does that relate to the election process?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: The African National Congress as an organisation for many a years and I as a member, were fighting within and outside the borders of South Africa for the eradication of a system of apartheid and to replace that system with a system of democracy where everybody and I mean everybody, Black and White, young and old could benefit, where order could be restored and the only way, we believed and I still believe, that the only way for us to - the only way that we could do that, we believed was through elections.
	There were other rules that were debated within the camps of the ANC in Angola and those were taking the country through arms and we sought that we did not want to turn this country into other countries that we have seen in the country.  In Angola we've seen what war does, in Mozambique we've seen that and we therefore held - I as a person in the ANC held elections very dearly, extremely dearly, they meant quite a lot to me.  This is one of the things through the years I have been fighting for, amongst other things because I believe that through elections it was possible for us to be able to transform the country where everybody could live and their dignity could be restored as South Africans.

MR TIPP: Did you believe that if you had not shot, that the elections would in some way have been jeopardised?

COLSON TEBOGO BEEA: Yes I did because Shell House was the only and last hope for a lot of people in the country, particularly the Black majority in our country.  People were scattered in township because of violence.  Violence had created no-go areas and no-go zones, but at least people could still go to Shell House and they were looking up to the ANC at Shell House to bring about changes in the country through a democratic process of elections and I believe that had Shell House - at that time if it was stormed, that act in itself would have brought about chaos in the country and my intention was to try and stop that.

MR TIPP: Finally Mr Beea, I want to ask you to tell the Committee, bearing in mind the fact that you now concede that you could have exceeded the bounds of self defence, you could have shot people after they had stopped attacking Shell House.  How do you feel about that now?