Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-07-07

DR MIJBURGH: The defence force placed the order and the CMC was given instruction about the manufacture of the substance which was mentioned by name and the CMC had fairly senior defence force officers who indicated that they were aware of the project. So I assume that it was an approved project.

MR VALLY: You only had contact with the grouping once or twice a year as you put to us. They couldn't have given you the order to manufacture it. Who gave you the order to manufacture it? It is a very simple question.

DR MIJBURGH: The CMC probably gave it to me.

MR VALLY: But you only met them once or twice a year. Are you saying in that once or twice a year that is when you got the order?

DR MIJBURGH: Probably.

MR VALLY: I put it to you that is highly improbable. Highly improbable. That you know who gave you the order and for whatever reason because of your involvement, deep involvement in this military front company that you are not disclosing what you know. What is your response to that?

DR MIJBURGH: No I am sorry I can't recall specifically who placed that order.

MR VALLY: Is there besides the Ecstasy which you are aware of that General Knobel accepted the offer that was made to him - is there any order that you are aware of that came from the defence force as to who placed it with you? Any order?

DR MIJBURGH: No I am not with you.

MR VALLY: Well how would you get orders?

DR MIJBURGH: CR was manufactured as part of the instruction of Delta-G. As part of the order of Delta-G. I can't tell you today who specifically placed the order for x tonnes of CR. I can't give you a person's name. It was built into a budget. It was a request of the defence force and was incorporated into the budget and we got approval for the spending of that money of that budget.

MR VALLY: You have indicated to us that the overall control was by this group of senior army generals. You have also indicated to us that you only met them once or twice a year if that. I need to know from you who supervised what you people were doing at Delta-G? Who watched you?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't think anybody was breathing down our neck to supervise. The project leader was Dr Wouter Basson. So technical matters were discussed with Wouter Basson as well as administrative matters. And that was done at regular intervals.

MR VALLY: And how often was this?

DR MIJBURGH: At least once a month perhaps more often.

MR VALLY: And did he come to Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: And you reported to him what you were doing and he told you what to do?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: And he didn't have to tell you where he got his instructions from?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: You assumed that it came from the defence force?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes I was never lead to understand anything else.

MR VALLY: And if he lied to you, you wouldn't know?

DR MIJBURGH: Perhaps I would have noticed that at a feedback session or a report back session because then the CMC would have indicated that we were doing something which they hadn't instructed us to do. That is why I submitted written reports and these reports I understood were sent to the CMC.

MR VALLY: You were aware of questions of financial impropriety around Dr Wouter Basson in 1991?

DR MIJBURGH: I read it in the press.

MR VALLY: You never asked him about it?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes but he didn't answer me.

MR VALLY: He just didn't answer you?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: And you accepted that?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: Yet you are willing to tell us - and this is 1991, yet you are willing to tell us that you delivered a 1000kg of Ecstasy to him?

DR MIJBURGH: I can't remember that there were any question marks in 1991. If you give me the dates. I understood that it was much later that certain questions were raised around Dr Basson's activities.

MR VALLY: The first questions were in that period. The financial improprieties. The allegations regarding other aspects such as poisons, etc took place at a later date. However even those further allegations took place on a date before your company - again your company Data Images, Information Images of Images Information. I forget the name right now.

DR MIJBURGH: Data Image Information Systems.

MR VALLY: Data Image Informations Systems. Yet you were working with Dr Basson on putting all the information on chemical and biological warfare onto discs.

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: But by that stage you were aware of questions being asked about him?

DR MIJBURGH: I can't recall that it was being asked at that stage already.

MR VALLY: Hadn't he just been retired from the defence force by ex-President de Klerk?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: So wasn't it a big question?

DR MIJBURGH: But he was entrusted with handling some more of these or the data gathering operation.

MR VALLY: By whom?

DR MIJBURGH: By the defence force I assume.

MR VALLY: Who specifically?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't know.

MR VALLY: You see there are a number of issues which worry us. And the issues that worry us are that you a managing director of a plant which manufactured a 1000kg of Mandrax, of Methaqualone and a 1000kg of Ecstasy. You very loosely told us about I don't know who delivered it. Yes it may have been in the basement. Yes the defence force has got access to the basement. Yes they may have put tablets there. I don't know. And your vagueness I put it to you is intentional because in view of your primary position as managing director. In view of your tentacles in all these other companies, a lot of which have connections with the military that you were a much more important player in front facade set up by the military than you are putting forward to us right now. And I would like to hear your response to that?

DR MIJBURGH: I do not believe that I was.

MR VALLY: Did you make a lot of money from these companies that you were directors of?

DR MIJBURGH: I did make money, not a great deal.

MR VALLY: Are you aware of anyone who made money out of the manufacture of Ecstasy?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: And Methaqualone?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Is there in retrospect now that you are here today and you have read a lot of the evidence and you have heard some of the evidence yourself in retrospect do you believe that you did anything wrong in your involvement with the military front companies?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't believe I did.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chair. I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Vally. Any cross-examination? Mr (...indistinct)?

COUNSEL: I have got no questions Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr du Plessis?

MR DU PLESSIS: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Brian?

MR CURRIN: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Zyl?

MR VAN ZYL: Nothing thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: No questions. Mr Cilliers? Any questions from the panel? Dr Wendy Orr.

WENDY ORR: Dr Mijburgh why did you study medicine?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't really know today. I didn't know what I wanted to study when I went to university. And medicine seemed an attractive option.

WENDY ORR: Because, I may be incorrect but it seems to me that you haven't actually practised clinical medicine for a very long time.

DR MIJBURGH: I haven't and I actually wanted to stop my studies in my 4th year but my father convinced me that it would be a rather stupid thing to do, to waste. That is why I did a B.Com later because commerce interested me more than medicine did.

WENDY ORR: So you would not describe yourself if someone said what is your profession you wouldn't say I am a doctor?

DR MIJBURGH: Not really.

WENDY ORR: When you graduated did you take any oaths, the Hippocratic Oath or the Declaration of Geneva or anything like that?

DR MIJBURGH: No we didn't.

WENDY ORR: Is that not done at the University of Pretoria?

DR MIJBURGH: It wasn't in my time. I believe they are doing it nowadays.