Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1997-06-11

CHAIRPERSON: I know you took an oath before reading this, but do you confirm that what stands in this statement is the truth?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mojapelo, we will admit it as Exhibit A.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: .

ADV MOJAPELO: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mojapelo.

ADV MOJAPELO: Mr Skosana, is there perhaps anything else which you did not include in your statement, which you would like to add or convey to the Committee?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, I would like to add something that after the attack took place, Joe went to the house with Dr Mamoyepa.  When he got back to inform us as to who were the occupants of the house at the time, I discovered that one of the victims, or one of the people who were in the house, was my relative, Mr Peter Mnifi.

ADV MOJAPELO: How are you related to Peter Mnifi?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: He is my cousin.

ADV MOJAPELO: Is there anything you wish to add or is that all?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is all.

ADV MOJAPELO: That would be the end of my examination in chief, Mr Chairman and members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Patel?

ADV PATEL: I just want to refer to paragraph 34 on page 8.  In the paragraph you say the operation was discussed for some time and on the 11th of November 1992, it was decided that it should be carried out.
	When you say it was decided, could you tell the Committee who made the decision?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: After this discussion I talked about here, it was decided by all of us who were in that planning process, but the instruction came from Joe Nkuna.

ADV PATEL: Mr Skosana, we would feel more assured and feel a lot more confident with regard to what we are doing, if you could testify in your own language so that later we would not have some arguments and we do not end up misunderstanding one another.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Okay.  After we discussed about this operation, we also asked questions when we felt we should as questions from Joe, because he had already told us about this whole thing and about the fact that these people were corroborating with the State and were agents.
	And we also found out and also committed ourselves that we should go on ahead with this operation.

ADV PATEL: Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black?

MR BLACK: Mr Skosana, I just want you to clarify an issue again on the same page 8, paragraph 35.
	You say four of us were going to carry out the operation.  It was Conrad Nkuna, Joe Nkuna, Soli and yourself.  By including Mr Joe Nkuna, did he physically accompany you to Mr Shabangu's home that evening?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, we were together.

MR BLACK: You also make mention of the fact that weapons were going to be used and  you talk about AK47's and handgrenades.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Now, who supplied those weapons?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: We were given these weapons by Joe Nkuna.

MR BLACK: I must just put it to you Mr Skosana that the evidence led on behalf of both Mr Joe and Mr Conrad Nkuna is that you arrived at Mr Joe Nkuna's house together with Soli, and when you arrived at his house for the first time when this mission was to be planned, you arrived armed with AK47's.
	You brought your own weapons to Mr Nkuna's home and that he didn't supply you with it.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: That is not true because when we left Witbank, it wasn't easy for us to be armed and carry arms all the way to Nelspruit and usually there are roadblocks along the way.
	If, in case you come across a roadblock you are going to raise a suspicion, so that is why we were not armed coming this way from Witbank and our intention was not to come here and carry some operation here in Nelspruit, but assisting Soli to skip the country.
	There was no need for us to be armed from Witbank to Nelspruit.

MR BLACK: Do I understand that when you travelled from Witbank to Nelspruit, did you come along the main highway?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: We used the N4.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, I can't remember what Mr Nkuna senior, testified, what he said around that aspect, but with regard to Conrad, subsequently he conceded that he could not with certainty say whether or not Mr Skosana did bring the weapons along with him from Witbank.
	When I put questions to him, he said well, when he saw Mr Skosana for the first time, Mr Skosana was already having those weapons, so he didn't quite categorically say that Mr Skosana had brought along those weapons from Witbank.
	Earlier on he did say so, but when I asked him later, he said, well, he wasn't very sure about it.

MR BLACK: Yes, Mr Chairman, my recollection is that they brought the weapons along and that is as I recall Mr Nkuna senior's evidence.  However, there is a record and I will go through the record before presenting argument to the Committee, thank you.

MR BLACK: I am sorry to get back on to the first question I asked you, could you just elaborate a little bit as to the role played by Mr Joe Nkuna on the actual attack of the house of Mr Shabangu?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Joe Nkuna was around, he took a position where we were attacking.

MR BLACK: So was he like acting as a lookout?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, he was the person responsible for the whole operation.

MR BLACK: And then essentially I must just put to you that a synopsis of the evidence of Mr Joe Nkuna is that when you arrived at his house, you and Soli, subject to correction, you were armed and that you informed him, Mr Joe Nkuna that you had arrived there on instructions from Head Quarters to carry out a mission which entailed the attacking of amongst others, Mr Shabangu's house.  In other words, you arrived there and you informed Mr Nkuna that you had received orders from Head Quarters and you were there to carry out that mission to attack amongst others, Mr Shabangu's house because he was an enemy agent.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I would say that is not true.  When we left Witbank we had one intention - it was to help the comrade to skip the country and we came to Joe because we knew he was the Regional Commander and he could possibly help us to get the person to skip the country.
	We didn't have any instruction from anybody.

MR BLACK: And what was your role or rank in the MK?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I was a rank and (indistinct).

INTERPRETER: We didn't get a clear interpretation of the last statement.

MR BLACK: What was your station, could you just repeat that please?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Sorry?

MR BLACK: Could you just repeat that.

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: I was just a member, I didn't have any rank or responsibilities that were assigned to me.

MR BLACK: And after this attack on Mr Shabangu's house, were you ever called upon to give an explanation by any senior members of the African National Congress as to what had taken place?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: No, I wasn't.

MR BLACK: How long after this attack were you arrested?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: It took only - I would say it is four days.

MR BLACK: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Skosana, tell me, just take your mind off this case for a while.  This Soli Morapi, was he ever imprisoned for a political offence?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he from Witbank?

STATEMENT OF MR SKOSANA HANDED IN AS EXHIBIT A: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he convicted in a case in Delmas?