Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

WELCOME MKHIZE: I do not understand the question because on that day I was on the road the whole day.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR ALBERTS: You only left after this - I'm sorry, you left before this incident of the shooting, you left the area and went to live in the suburbs, is that correct?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: I just want to confirm; your earlier evidence was you only left to go and live in the suburbs some time after this incident where your vehicle was ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, he said: "But when the violence started I moved away to the suburbs."  Now: "When the violence started" might mean the general violence in that area it might mean this incident.  Now I think that if you want to clear that up what you might ask really is; did you move, were you living in the suburbs at the time of this incident?

MR ALBERTS: At the time of this incident where your vehicle was attacked, were you living in the suburbs by then?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Let me explain that my mother was still staying in the area and I was running a business.  I did not forget that there were people staying there.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR ALBERTS: And you also said that when you moved to the suburbs you put the area behind you.

CHAIRPERSON: What about the area?

WELCOME MKHIZE: ...(no English translation)

MR ALBERTS: This taxi route that you take does it go into that area?  Just maybe to clear that up.

WELCOME MKHIZE: No.  It was not reaching the area where people liked to attack each other.

MR ALBERTS: Isn't that where you were attacked, in the area where you were staying?

CHAIRPERSON: But I think that really you want to know on that day if it is clear that he was the driver and Nxedi, isn't that the end of the matter?

MR ALBERTS: Yes, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  He says that on that day he was lucky he got out alive and wasn't killed, so he was the driver.

MR ALBERTS: Yes Mr Chairman, I am just trying to establish on other days as well.  That is also relevant. What is your relationship with this Mthethwa?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I was not related to Qeda.  We just grew up together, even with the applicants here.  I then moved to the suburb and left them there.

MR ALBERTS: Thank you Mr Chairman, nothing further.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ALBERTS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink are there any questions you wish to put?

MR BRINK: No, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

CHAIRPERSON: You have ...(inaudible) to say yes.

MR MALAN: I just want this one question to be, for the sake of my peace of mind answered finally, how would you know that Mthethwa never drove your vehicle or have never driven your vehicle if it was in the control of another driver?

WELCOME MKHIZE: If I am at work, I would not know what happens to my vehicle.

MR MALAN: Was the other driver a permanent driver, this Thulani Zimu?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

MR MALAN: Would any one from time to time stand in for him, drive on his behalf?

WELCOME MKHIZE: It would happen that Ndaba Cebekhulu drive my car.

MR MALAN: Could Mthethwa have driven the taxi?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I cannot say, but as far as I know, he never drove it.  But one cannot know what the drivers do when one is at work.

MR MALAN: Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions?

ADV MOTATA: Just one.  Mr Mkhize you said you moved to the suburbs because there was violence.  In which areas was there violence?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I was born in Mboyi.  Violence then started and people left the area.  I then moved to the suburbs for safety of my children.

ADV MOTATA: Now within this area when you say violence was it gangster related or was it organisation against organisation?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I did not know what was happening because one would just wake up in the morning and find a person dead.  When you ask who killed that person, there would be no answer.  I then realised that I might also be a victim and the best thing for me was to leave the area.

ADV MOTATA: In respect of political organisations, that is the IFP and ANC do you bear knowledge of which organisation was dominant in the Ziboya area?

WELCOME MKHIZE: It was the IFP in Mboyi at that time.  One cannot say the killings were done by the IFP or the ANC, but it is still going on.

ADV MOTATA: How long after the violence had taken place in that area did you move out to the suburbs?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I stayed there for some time, and when I saw that the killings were going on, I decided to leave.

ADV MOTATA: Now I am asking you an opinion here, if you can't answer this please say so.   Whilst you were living in the area was there talk that the ANC and perhaps the IFP were attacking each other?  Did you ever hear something of that nature?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.  That happened but eventually I left because people were killed mysteriously.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think that really the purpose of that question is that.  I think the purpose of the question is to find out from you whether it was well-known that in that area there was on-going conflict between the ANC and the IFP.

WELCOME MKHIZE: There were political differences and people started killing each other.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, my question was that it is well-known in that area that there was this conflict.

WELCOME MKHIZE: It was well known yes, because other people had left the area and were staying in tents in Pietermaritzburg.

CHAIRPERSON: Does that answer your question?

ADV MOTATA: ...(inaudible)

MR MALAN: Can I just follow up on that?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes certainly.

MR MALAN: Mr Mkhize do you support a political organisation?

WELCOME MKHIZE: No.

MR MALAN: At the time of the incident were you a supporter of the one or the other organisation?

WELCOME MKHIZE: No.

MR MALAN: This Mr Thulani Zimu do you know him well?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I will not say I know him that well because I am married and have children and Thulani does not have children.

ADV MOTATA: Mr Mkhize did you vote during the last elections in April 1994? Did you vote for any political party?

WELCOME MKHIZE: Yes.

ADV MOTATA: Which party did you vote for?

WELCOME MKHIZE: ANC.

MR MALAN: Do you know whether Mr Zimu voted and where he voted?

WELCOME MKHIZE: I do not know because he is a bachelor and I am married.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, thank you very much.  You are excused from further attendance.  Thanks for coming and volunteering to give evidence when requested to do so. ...(indistinct)

WELCOME MKHIZE: Thank you, too.
WITNESS IS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink isn't it a convenient stage to take the adjournment?

MR BRINK: Yes, Mr Chairman it is.  I don't know, possibly my colleague could give an indication how long he proposes being with the second application in this matter because?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  I am prepared to carry on but I want to take into account the people that operate, the interpreters, the people that operate this equipment and so on.  They may have transport problems.

MR BRINK: I understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BRINK: Possibly if we can adjourn just for a few minutes then I can ascertain whether after the break they are prepared to carry on.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well I will stand down for a little while.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) of carrying on until a little later this afternoon but the prospect of finishing the evidence of a witness between now and 5 o'clock is remote and therefore we have decided that we are now going to adjourn and we will resume promptly at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.  I trust that counsel will make themselves available in time with their witnesses and everybody else so that we can promptly begin at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.  Will that be convenient to you?

MR ALBERTS: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Very well we now adjourn until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS