Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-06

COMMISSIONER: Thank you Mr Sotsu. You have said a great deal and right at the onset from the Commission we want to still show our sympathy and empathy with you and your grandsons sitting there.  I am sure it can't be easy for them and for yourself.  If you will, sir, I am going to actually now proceed to ask several questions and then I will hand over to our chairperson.  I want to actually start by saying that yes, we are listening to the human rights violations that were committed against your family but we also tasked with developing as complete a picture and therefore at times I may actually change historical periods if you don't mind.  Can I just come back to your lady wife Constance, is that right?   Sorry, Constance, yes.  Was she involved in political activity herself? 
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MR ERNEST SOTSU: Constance, my late wife, was a member of the ANC Womens League.

COMMISSIONER: And in your statement you say you reported these threats to the police and so did your wife.  Besides the statement made after the fatal killings by the police were you given any protection at all?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I was never given any protection. In fact I did not even see the reason why should I get protection from the people who were aiming to kill me.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Sotsu you have said yourself that - and you have mentioned where and when your political activity started in this area, we are looking at a period of intense volatile activity as you yourself actually said in your statement.  Was there protection provided by - I mean we are talking of protection units within the Vaal by political movements at that time. Was there protection given to you by the ANC or the Mass Democratic Movement, and your family?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: During that period on my arrival from prison right in Boipatong there was a youth league and that youth league in Boipatong were the people who were protecting me but they had no arms.

COMMISSIONER: Can you just tell us how old your wife Constance was at the time of her death, and the other people who were killed.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: She was about 40 years, she was born in 1936 and you can just cut it out of that.

COMMISSIONER: So she was - okay.  And Margaret?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Margaret was over 30.  She was born in 1958.

COMMISSIONER: And Sabatha?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Sabatha was two year old.  He was on the
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third year.

COMMISSIONER: What about Vusi and Vuyani, I know they are here today.  How old were they at the time?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Vuyani was 12 years, he was entering the 13th year. The other one was 10 years, he was entering 11th year.

COMMISSIONER: Okay.  I just want to ask about the injuries that both Vusi and Vuyani suffered.  Can you tell us something about that.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I think the Commissioner will pardon me if I would say the facts will speak for themselves because those injuries are still very visible even now.  One Vuyani on the extreme right he has got his body from here round down riddled with bullets.  He is still having a bullet in  him right now.  And then Vusi had a bullet on his left foot right above here in the joint of the foot which went down.  He now is even limping right now.

COMMISSIONER: If I can ask, sir, you said that the children were asked to identify Khetise.  Was that done with them standing behind a two way mirror  or were they asked to go and identify clearly in a row?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I was asked that question before the identification parade as I said that I was prepared to put my head on the block, my neck so to say.  I said to them I want them to identify them visibly and this was done so.  They went to the man.

COMMISSIONER: Now I just want to come to the charges against this gentleman Khetise.  Who else was charged with him?  Was he alone in this or were there other people charged?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Khetise was alone.  That is the only man
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who was alone because the police did not want to reveal the other people who were there.  The children said they saw other people there but those people were not known to them.

COMMISSIONER: You also mentioned this person Vananda Zulu.  Can you just tell us a little more about him.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: The so-called Vananda Zulu, shall I say so-called Mtwana, baby, he was a neighbour to me.  When I came out of prison I found this strange man in my street.  Little did I know who he was until one day he stepped in my house unknown to me and saying that he was being threatened by the youth league.  So he wanted me to intervene.  I asked him who he was.  He then told me he was the so-called Vananda Zulu.  Then I said I am the member of the African National Congress and I will talk to the youth.  Go to your place and sleep in peace if you have no problem.  So that is how I know.  Within a week he was fetched by the police and accompanied and taken to what came to be known Kwamadala hostel.  That was a hostel which was already you know disused by Iscor. But now that, I mean Iscor at the beginning of Inkatha activities in the Vaal started now to prepare this hostel, renovating it, meaning that they are preparing it for occupation and Vananda Zulu was among the first to get in there and then after that Zone 7 rally that is where the group after killing people was taken there to join the same Vananda Zulu.  And it became now a harbour for criminals.

COMMISSIONER: Now you have spoken about, in your statement, first of all today you have said that Mr Khetise was part of a gang but at the same time in your statement you say he was a member of Inkatha.  Now is that a perception?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Yes, let me just put this clearly.  From
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the beginning the so-called Khetise was just a gangster interested in stealing cars somewhere in Zone 7.  That is the story I gathered after the killing of my wife and thereafter he started now to have bad blood with the youth in that particular area and he sought refuge from Inkatha.  Then he became now a member of Inkatha.

COMMISSIONER: I just want to stay on that.  Again in your statement - so you are saying you only became aware of Mr Khetise after the killing of your family?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Good.

COMMISSIONER: So this point that you make in your statement that he was always seen in the presence of police in the Vaal region, especially at scenes where violent political clashes took place, this is post the killing of your family. Or is this what you found out from people?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: You see earlier when this Khetise started to appear in Boipatong I didn't know at all about him. I knew, I only knew a bit from the children who told me that there was an element called Khetise, a bad element.  Then I didn't take this into consideration as such and they said he is always going with this Vananda Zulu and company.  They were threatening the youth.  Now I became serious therefore after the killing of my children.  After getting the report before that he was with Vananda Zulu during one day before I left for the conference, whereby they intimidated my wife asking my wife about my whereabouts and that if I do return home that night I should report to Kwamadala where I am to appear before the tribunal of Inkatha and account.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you.  Mr Sotsu I have a few more questions.  I am sorry for posing so many questions.  I want to go back now to your emerging as a leader in the Vaal from
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underground activity in the '84 period and I suppose I am coming back now to this complete picture that we are trying to develop.  You said quite clearly earlier on that the Vaal Civic Association was opposed to the apartheid councils that were created.   We heard yesterday about some of the incidences that took place during that time.  I wonder whether you would like to actually throw light on that period.