Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

MR KUNY: You were charged for the kidnapping and assault of Stompie Sepei?

MS FALATI: Originally I was charged with the murder of Stompie Sepei.

MR KUNY: Then that murder was turned to kidnapping and assault.

MR KUNY: And Mrs Mandela was your co-accused?

MS FALATI: Yes.

MR KUNY: Now, you gave evidence in that trial and in the time available to me I have not had an opportunity to look at the court record, but I believe it is common cause that you gave evidence at that trial that Mrs Mandela was not present when the assaults on Stompie and others were committed, is that correct?

MS FALATI: Yes, I said so in my evidence at court.

MR KUNY: Firstly can I just ask you, is that evidence true?

MS FALATI: I was told by her to protect her.  I was flown to Durban to fabricate some statement to protect her.

MR KUNY: Why did you agree to give false evidence to protect her?

MS FALATI: That was our culture to protect our leaders.  That is number one, and number two, I was scared of seeing how people were brutally beaten.  And in the first place I never knew that Mrs Mandela was taking these hard drinks and she is aggressive when she is taking that.  She gives you orders, you don't have to reply.
 You are not to reason, you are to do and die.  You have to take orders or do and die.

MR KUNY: And I take it, Mrs Mandela was very influential, a very influential person and influential in the community?

MS FALATI: Can you call that influential, I don't know.  It could be that he was powerful.  Can you use the power instead of the influential because a person who has got power can order you to do anything, but a person cannot influence me to do something, but he can order.
 Order and influence is something different.

MR KUNY: Now, is it correct that at a certain stage you did actually stay at Mrs Mandela's household?

MS FALATI: Yes, I stayed at her place, that was January 1990.

MR KUNY: At the time of your trial, were you staying at Mrs Mandela's house?

MS FALATI: Yes, I was still staying at Mrs Mandela's house.

MR KUNY: Were there any instances where you were approached at the time of the trial, other instances apart from those you have already mentioned, that you were flown to Durban, but were there any other instances where you were approached about the evidence that you were to give at the trial?

MS FALATI: Yes, that was during the questioning by the State Prosecutor, Jan Swanepoel, when I was awoken by Dali Mpofo.  He woke me in the middle of the night and asked me to change some of the version.  So during that testimony the following day I was supposed to be questioned by the State Prosecutor, I said I told my lawyer which was (indistinct), that I am so tired I didn't sleep because Dali Mpofo was there.  I told her that Dali Mpofo said that I must change some of the version.
 (Indistinct) said to me that I must say that in court, but that was not the right time, because I was not prepared to give in from the protection of my leader.  I was still protecting my leader, if I could have exposed (indistinct), that would have jeopardised the chances of protecting my leader.

MR KUNY: Now, you subsequent to that you left Mrs Mandela's household?

MS FALATI: Pardon?

MR KUNY: After that, at a later stage you left Mrs Mandela's household, do you recall when it was that you actually stopped staying with her?

MS FALATI: That was when she attacked me in the middle of the night.

MR KUNY: What happened in that instance?

MS FALATI: It was Zinzi's engagement party, so she had told me not to come to the party, to the engagement party so I was so surprised because she was not in a friendly mood when she told me that, but I decided to stay.
 But what she did, she forced me to give me her keys, the bedroom which I was sleeping in had the Y7 key.  So she said I must give her the key and the keys, the bundle of keys from the main room, that is the old 8115.  So I gave her those keys.
 Then after that she said to me she will come back.  She went away, you know I know her because I have stayed with her, when she is going to strike, then I went to my neighbours to say it could be there is something that I anticipate, can they please bring the key, Y7, so they gave me a spare key, that is Y7.
 The Y7 which I used to lock the door, then she attacked me in the middle of the night, that was ten past twelve.  We tussled, she said I must open the door, I opened the door, she came in and said where is the key, I said I don't have the key.  She said where is the key, because I've tried to open the door through the key which you have given me.  I said no, eventually she said (indistinct) in Xhosa, then I gave her the key, because it was on my left hand.  Then we tussled, she was actually trying to open the zip of the sling bag that she had, she was dressed smartly because it was the engagement.
 So we tussled, I knew that there was something because I was staying with her, I knew that there was something in the bag, so we tussled for the zip not to open it.  She got tripped over my feet and when she fell, I ran.  She fell on the bed, I ran out.  Then I found the five other people, that is the Mandela Football Club, that is Mills and the others, that is Vuyisile and Rubin and the other two leaders.

MR KUNY: What was in the bag?

MS FALATI: That was a pistol.

MR KUNY: Do you know why Mrs Mandela didn't want you to stay at her house any more?

MS FALATI: That time I had served the purpose of protecting her, so I was of no use.

MR KUNY: And where did you go after that, you didn't go back to her house?

MS FALATI: No, I was taken by the ANC security to the East Rand for four days, then I came back to the safe house, the ANC safe house in town.  Then after about two weeks, I said I wanted to integrate with the people, I cannot be detained here.

MR KUNY: Now, Ms Falati I want to ask you specific questions in relation to other assaults, disappearances and deaths which form the subject of this Commission.  To start off with, evidence was led yesterday of Pumisile Dlamini and an alleged assault on her, do you have any knowledge of what happened there?

MS FALATI: To?

MR KUNY: Pumisile Dlamini?

MS FALATI: No.  No, I don't have.

MR KUNY: She testified yesterday that she was pregnant and that there was an allegation that she was having an affair with a boyfriend of Mrs Mandela?

MS FALATI: No.

MR KUNY: Do you have any knowledge about the murder of Sikhela Dlomo?

MS FALATI: Yes.  I know about the murder of Sikhela Dlomo.  She actually told me when we were supposed to be going to the East Rand, there was a rally in the East Rand in KwaThema Springs for the first time, she was going to address that rally.
 Whilst we were still at home, she was so enthusiastic that she decided to do, actually when we were still - hey how is KwaThema, how is the people.  I said, they are highly political and what, what, what.  As we were talking, she actually told me you know, somebody told me about Sikhela Dlomo that I wiped him out.
 Then I asked her did you wipe him out yourself and she said no, Sizwe is doing the disciplinaries.  And then I asked the question why and then she said he was taking the information to the church ministers at the SACC.

MR KUNY: Do you know where was Sikhela Dlomo working at the time, do you know?

MS FALATI: He was working at the SACC.

MR KUNY: There was two attempts on Leratodi Ikaneng, an alleged, one instance he was shot and another instance his throat was cut.  Do you have knowledge, hear-say or otherwise of these attacks on him?

MS FALATI: No, I do not know about the first attack, but I heard about the second attack, the orders were carried in front of me.

MR KUNY: What orders?

MS FALATI: He ordered, Tanqi (indistinct) that is the MK soldier from KwaThema, she ordered  (indistinct) to wipe Leratodi Ikaneng.

MR KUNY: She, being who?

MS FALATI: So I went to ...

CHAIRPERSON: She being who?