Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-16

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I received a telephone call, Nomhle gave me a message and said, "Come and listen, Mama, come and guess who is on the telephone".  It was Siphiwo.  He greeted me and asked after our health, we exchanged some small talk and I asked him where he was.  He just said that he's there and he's alive.  He didn't tell me where his whereabouts were, but when I asked him when he's coming back, he said, "Those who come back will be those who'd enjoy, it doesn't matter whether I do not come back, but those who will be coming back will enjoy!"  But he did not finish his talk.  I asked him about President Mandela, if he would come back, because he was also away.  It was Christmas eve when I was asking these questions.  My son said Mr Mandela will come back soon. When I asked him when he himself is coming back, he insisted again and said, even if he did not come back, those who did so, would enjoy.
 It was a Christmas and the first time that I heard his voice since he'd gone, and he insisted that those who  come back would be those who would be benefitting.
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MR NTSEBEZA: What else did you hear about him after you received this telephone call?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: In January the following year, in 1988, Mrs Ngopo came to me, she is the wife to our Reverend, the reverend of the Anglican Church in our locality. She visited me together with the other women of the church.  They said it was a casual visit.  They exchanged glances, but didn't say anything, just insisting that they visited me casually.  During the process they started praying and everybody was emotionally moved and they started crying. They gave me the bad tidings that Siphiwo was reported by my daughters, that they are afraid to inform me of what has happened.
 They said they learned that Siphiwo was shot and fatally wounded in Umtata.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did they know when he was shot?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: No they didn't.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Late in the evening they phoned me and formally informed me about the bad tidings.  They said he was travelling by car with three comrades.  Two ran away and one who was left fighting until he was overpowered and shot to death. That is what they learned.

MR NTSEBEZA: How did they say they got this information?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: They said they received a telephone call from somebody anonymously, he just said "Come quickly to Mount Fletcher to the police station mortuary, because Siphiwo is being damaged.  His body has been there for quite a long time.  So this confirmed that he was killed.

MR NTSEBEZA: Did they go to the mortuary?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes they did.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who went?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Zoda and Nomhle.  They were afraid to look at
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the body and wanted somebody to escort them.  When they wee asked who gave this information, they said that somebody phoned them anonymously, but they didn't know his name.

MR NTSEBEZA: Didn't they go to the lawyers?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: They came back because there were some problems and there was an indication that they were struggling to get his body.  They went back to Umtata and they went to an attorney called Dumisane Nthabesa, and tried to get  means of getting the body. I do not know how this lawyer worked but they found him , but his body was already in a bad state.  They took him to the Gunesa Police Station.  He stayed there in the mortuary until the day when he had to be buried.

MR NTSEBEZA: When was he buried?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: He was buried on a Saturday, I cannot remember the date.

MR NTSEBEZA: I want you to inform this house and this gathering of what happened on a Friday, a day before his funeral.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: On that fateful Friday, somebody came and fetched me, Reverend Umgobo was also fetched, they asked was going to do the ceremony and I state that the Reverend will do it.  They also asked who the undertakers were, and I said it was Mathebesa who was also there and then we were taken to the office of the Special Branch at the OK buildings in Grahamstown.  It was a housefull.  I was informed that my son was a well-trained guerilla and that the people who attend the funeral have to be limited to 200 in number.  The person who was conducting the ceremony can only be the Reverend. The can be no freedom songs, speeches ...(intervention)
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MR NTSEBEZA: Did the police say so?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes the detectives said so. They said only the Reverend could carry on with the work, nobody should assist him.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did you say when this was said to you?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I told him that in our area nobody is invited to a funeral.  They just go there of their own free will.  What should I do and what should I say to those who had come on their own? They just kept quiet.  They said to the Reverend who was next to me, that he was the only person who could do the ceremony and they insisted that there should be no speeches, no freedom songs, nothing.

MR NTSEBEZA: When your son was buried, just give us a picture about your family during the day of the funeral.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: It was like a war.  It seemed as if it was a battle.  There's a big gate next to Josa.  There was a convoy, police , soldiers hippos, everybody.  This convoy was just next to my house and my house was surrounded by the police.  It stretched for quite a long distance.  They were all armed.  I've left something out.
 During the day when I was there, they asked when the body is going to arrive and I replied that I don't know the hearse will be arriving. They said the arrival should take no longer than three hours. The hearse arrived after nine o'clock and it was guarded by the police convoy. His coffin was shaken.  They shook the hearse.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did they want from the coffin?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: I do not know but they went forward and asked what was going on.  The reporters who came also witnessed but they were chased back. Some people came late and were driven away and nobody was allowed to come in. It was
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already full of people and they could not control the 200.

MR NTSEBEZA: There is this tradition that when somebody is buried, the relatives and the families are supposed to look and pay tribute for the last time. Did this happen to your son?

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Nobody was allowed to see him, I didn't even see him because his body was beyond recognition and the undertaker, Gwonisa, said to try his best to mummify him, but this was very difficult. So I could not see him for the last time, the last time when I saw him alive was in 1980.

MR NTSEBEZA: In other words, the policemen who killed your son in Mount Fletcher, didn't care, even when he was already dead, they also made it a point that his family, his relatives, couldn't even have a glance to see him because they kept him there for a long time.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: What did they say when you asked them what kept them so long, why didn't they inform you before his body was like this.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: They said they didn't know who he was.  They didn't know his name, so they couldn't do anything.

MR NTSEBEZA: We are now coming to an end of this testimony. Is it true that the first thing that is most disturbing to you is that you had sent your son to university, but the second time when you saw him, was when he was unrecognisable as a person, his remains were also unrecognisable.

TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: But am I mistaken when I say the most moving and disturbing thing is that the police did not give you the last dignified minute to bury your son in a dignified manner, according to your tradition.
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TONI LILLIAN MAZWAI: Yes it is so.