Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

MR MILLER: Chairperson, Mike Miller for Thulani Dlamini.  Dr Asvat, I would just like to ask you just a few questions.  Firstly you say that well one of the, let me put it this way, one of the crimes for which my client was convicted, was robbery of I think R145-00 from your late brother's surgery, is that correct?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

MR MILLER: Now you say that you have investigated this yourself, and you found no money to be missing?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

MR MILLER: Did you do a thorough search, I mean did you ... (intervention)

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, we did a reconciliation with the number of patients he had seen on that particular day and the float which was present, and they tallied practically equally.

MR MILLER: So did you reconcile his books?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: We reconciled his books at the time, for that day.

MR MILLER: Possibly it may be that your late brother had had certain cash on him, pocket money?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is a possibility, but there was enough money, he never carried a lot of money around with him.  If it was, it was R20-00 or R30-00 in his pocket.  There was much more around.

MR MILLER: I see.  Just a few other questions, to refer you back to your chronology of events on page 7 under the date 30th January 1989.  If I may just read it to you, at the offices of the Indicator newspaper in Lenazia, Attorney Mayet claims that he has important information about Dr Asvat's murder.
 He says he can only release the information in one month's time.  He also threatens to deny the meeting having taken place if knowledge of this meeting becomes public.
 Firstly have you got any personal knowledge of this meeting at the Indicator?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, I was present along with the then Editor of the Indicator, Mr Amin Ekalwayer and a few of my friends, Mr Motani, my younger brother and a few other people were present at that particular meeting.

MR MILLER: Do you know the Attorney Eunice Mayet who was present?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

MR MILLER: And do you know of the nature of the information that the Attorney had?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Well, he made a claim that he had some information with regard to my brother's murder.  He unfortunately was very reluctant to divulge such information, claiming that he would only be able to do so in about a month's time.  So when we approached him in  a month's time, he then claimed that he had no knowledge at all.

MR MILLER: Do you know if the Attorney had any professional contact with anybody who was able to supply him with information?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: The only person who could have supplied him with any information, was my brother, because it is believed that my brother saw him on the 27th of January of 1989, the morning before he got murdered.

MR MILLER: So in other words, he was your brother's Attorney?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

MR MILLER: Then to come to the 3rd of February 1989, in the very last sentence of that paragraph you say a third person is spotted and chased but he escapes.  Do I understand from this that there was a third suspect involved?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.  A gentleman by the name of Johannes, but they could not apprehend this person.

MR MILLER: So this person has never been arrested?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Never been arrested.

MR MILLER: What exactly is Johannes alleged to have done?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: I don't know, the police claimed that they were looking for three people and I presume that maybe Johannes were maybe one of the persons who might have provided the firearm, or whatever, I have no clue what Johannes' status there is.

MR MILLER: Do you know if Johannes has got another name, perhaps his name is Khazi?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: I don't know.  I have no idea.

MR MILLER: And Johannes isn't the same as Botha Swala?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: It could possibly be, but I don't know.

MR MILLER: Because that was my last question to you about Botha Swala, I see you call him Swala Botha, but my client tells me his name is Botha Swala.
 Under the entry dated 3rd November 1989, you state that Swala Botha is neither investigated nor determined and then you have the question mark police agent?  Now, in other words you had some suspicion that Swala Botha was a police agent?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, it is basically just a suspicion.

MR MILLER: No factual basis?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: No factual, I haven't put down, but this is what we had been hearing about from people.

MR MILLER: Thank you Chairperson.

MR MILLER: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Richard?

MR RICHARDS: Thank you Chairperson.  Dr, is it correct that there is a phrase, pain in the anus, written on the medical card?  Is that correct?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Pardon, just repeat your question sir?

MR RICHARDS: What is the note on the medical card as to the complaint that Mr Richardson came to see the Doctor about?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: It say pain in the anus and on the diagnosis side is put down query perianal abscess and he is treated with penicillin.  I can't make out exactly what the second item is and possibly - I can't make out those two items that he prescribed there.  But the one is penicillin injection.

MR RICHARDS: Would it be consistent that that ailment be treated with a series of injections of penicillin?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Possibly, but penicillin really is not the drug of choice when it comes to treating a perianal abscess.

MR RICHARDS: But it is a painful condition that would mean that a patient would go and see his Doctor?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, it is  a painful condition, and he would go and see his Doctor.

MR RICHARDS: I am not a Medical Specialist by no means at all, but it is possible that an antibiotic injection would be used to treat it?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, it is possible.

MR RICHARDS: And if a course of injections is what was chosen, it would be two or three visits and then hopefully the end of the treatment?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

MR RICHARDS: Because that is the version that Mr Richardson will give of his dealings with your later brother during that week.  No further questions.

MR RICHARDS: .

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Fazel Randera?

DR RANDERA: Ebrahim, I call you Ebrahim as I know you as Ebrahim.  Ebrahim, you seem to have gone through your brother's medical cards quite extensively and a great deal of rigor, would you say he kept very good notes including notes of going to do home visits?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: I would expect him to do that, yes.

DR RANDERA: But he had no notes on Stompie Seipei?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: I could find no notes on Stompie Seipei.

DR RANDERA: Were you very close to him, professionally as well as personally?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, I was close to him.

DR RANDERA: Would you have expected him to have had some discussions with you about Stompie then?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, I would have expected him to.

DR RANDERA: But there was no discussions?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: There was no discussions.  This was around the time that I was on holiday as well, so I didn't get much time to speak to him.

DR RANDERA: Okay, thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin?

YASMINE SOOKA: Dr Asvat, I seem to recall when I read the court record in this matter, that you were present at the surgery when a pointing out took place with Zakhele Mbatha the following day.
 I want to ask you because it seems the court relied on your evidence, that Cyril Mbatha had not been assaulted and he wasn't limping.  Do you remember that and could you just ... (intervention)

EBRAHIM ASVAT: Yes, I remember that.  He acted quite normally and he wasn't limping or anything of that sort.   He looked pretty healthy, there was no sign of assault or injury to him.

YASMINE SOOKA: So to your mind it didn't look as if anything had been done to him?

EBRAHIM ASVAT: That is correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Khosa Mgojo?