Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MOSES LENTSHISI THEMBA: I saw the smoke up on top of the corrugated iron. I said oh, God, it is not longer a boycott, it is now the burning, that is what I said. I was standing watching. Then I said, I went out together with my wife and I took the keys, ran to check if we could do something there, to try and extinguish the fire and we found that we couldn't,
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because the fire was right in front of the shop. It was just on the front there.  Whether it was petrol or somehow I don't know. We could not enter. If you look inside, you could see that it was a counter service there, you could see from the counters that it was burning, right from one side to another, but there was no way in which you could extinguish the fire.
 The people were coming in, trying to give assistance to extinguish the fire, breaking windows, throwing in soil and we phoned the fire brigade and even the police. Well, they asked me who is the suspect in this regard. I told them. Then they said they are going to investigate.  It continued and it was discovered that police came back to me and said well, the suspects whom you mentioned to us actually said they don't know anything about this.  They said they are only committed to peace. 
 On top of that, some few days thereafter, it was heard that I am actually suspecting those people who burnt my shop. I do have a proof which could sort of support my suspicion.  The following week James was helping in that shop. He never worked in that shop, but he was working as if he was so happy.  
 After that, as I was listening, some few days thereafter, in September another friend of mine who was a businessman also died.  There was a problem.  It was suspected as if we were actually involved in his death.  Then we tried that they should investigate the matter.  James turned around and said, he said myself and the other businessmen bought the guns to shoot the businessman who has died. I said to myself but what is he saying, look at this now.  He is talking lies. Something which I never talked. I 
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was shocked.  From there I started to be very suspicious about him.  From there we made a follow-up and we said he is actually - I am not here, I was open enough to him. I don't wish him any bad luck. 
 I think this is the Commission where I can sort of say, speak out, so that others can also listen to this.
 Lastly, before going further, he came back now, he said together with Minister of Housing in Umpumalanga and Mr General Tswana who is also a mayor and Mr Edward Morgan. They came at my home with the Bible on their hands.  They said no, let us reconcile, James doesn't know anything, and then they opened the Bible, and we did - because even myself, I don't really have evidence that James was actually the person responsible.
 Up until this year a person actually who came, who was together with James, and said to me Parra, Parra, I feel very much sorry for you, you should now have progressed but we realise that you are a successful busienssman and you have now turned from a big shop into a very smaller shop. I was - and he said to me, he is actually the person who was responsible for burning the shop. James' name was also included there.  That's where I said, oh, if it was not the Truth Commission and my good heart, maybe I could have done something wrong. But I am not that type of a person.  What I am trying to ask from the Truth Commission is that I have got, I owe a lot of money. I am owing a lot than the assets I am having.  I may go back home to find only that the electricity has been cut off, because I cannot afford to pay. I am now expecting some summons from the attorneys. I have got a summons which are worth R60 000,00. I have no chance even to go to the bank and lend money. Once I open 
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the door the bank manager will say no, we can't assist you. I have tried to apply from the Kuzuma Council somehow perhaps if I could be assisted there.
 I don't know. If I can bring a person, the way I was worried, because he is actually the son of my sister. I brought him, after the death of his mother, I brought him here. Today he has turned to be my enemy. If that is not the case, please talk to him, advise him. I think now if it was now he couldn't do this, because he is actually a blood relative to me.
 Let me come back now to the shop. I tried to, used the old corrugated irons.  If actually it was the new corrugated iron, I think I could have lost everything, but because it was the old type of corrugated iron I managed to have some. Now I am trying to explain here. If there is a way, a way which could be found. I am not trying to channel the Truth Commission here. Maybe if they could say to me go to this bank and they will give you a loan, I could go there. I am serious about this.  Because I know very well.

CHAIRPERSON: Could I ask people to remain quiet, please.

MS MKHIZE: We want to thank you, Mr Themba, about your story which you told us. I will ask you a few questions in order just to get some clarity.
 As you are here, we are here to try and investigate that what took place, was it politically-motivated or not.  Maybe you can explain to us, briefly, whether your suspect, maybe you had problems with him sometimes before?

MOSES LENTSHISI THEMBA: We never had a conflict.  I remember as you are a black, traditionally we do not get people from outside to work in the business, if you are a big family. I can just explain that his character was that he was a lazy person,
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that he was the conflict in the time that I know.  He cannot work at home. He could not work, he was stubborn, but he was very much active in the political issues. I can just say that straightforward. I don't think that could have resulted in the conflict. He moved away from my home without saying good-bye to me as a parent.  Maybe it is how he indicated that he was against me. That's why I am here today to say if there is a chance, could there be an investigation.

MS MKHIZE: If you are saying he moved away from home during the struggle, how old was he?

MOSES LENTSHISI THEMBA: I cannot go further than that one. I don't even know how old is he now, because I am confused. I can't remember what is his age now, I don't know him. I just see him as an old man now. I am not trying that I am diverting from the issue. I do not have an interest now.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe if one can just take you back to that, and refer you to that meeting where about 500 people attended that meeting and there was a resolution taken. If you can remember, usually in meetings, there used to be different ideas.  Can you just maybe remember whether there was just the proper reasoning and how about the resolution.

MOSES LENTSHISI THEMBA: What I can tell you is that they used to come there and put the tables and therefore they could stand up and talk.  Then thereafter they take decisions on there.  The committee is just to listen to them. Then at the end people say have you, do you understand.  Then people used to agree.  I am trying to say there wasn't a chance of addressing myself.

CHAIRPERSON: Order, please!

MS MKHIZE: The other thing you said was that you said somebody came like the reverend and the mayor and one of the HRV/THEMBA dignitaries/...
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dignitaries. You did not get any chance to explain why was your shop burnt.