Human Rights Violation Hearings — Piet Retief — 1997-05-21

MR MNISI: I don't hold any particular position and (it's not clear what the witness is saying at this stage).

DR BORAINE: Sipho how do you, looking back at what happened to you four years ago, how do you feel now, yourself?

MR MNISI: I feel very bad about what happened to me.  I feel quite terrible that some lives were lost.

DR BORAINE: Just take some more water please. But do you feel that the tensions which gave rise to your being shot and the other people being killed, do you feel that those tensions have gone?

MR MNISI: I think the situation has calmed down.  It's not like before.

DR BORAINE: And do you yourself feel safe now?

MR MNISI: I still fear for my life like before.

DR BORAINE: You do?  From the same people?

MR MNISI: Yes I feel that the people who attacked me may still come back because I don't know what they attacked me for, and they might probably attack me once more for the same reason or for reasons best known to themselves.

DR BORAINE: Sipho, you're still a very young man.  What are your plans now for the future, what do you want to do?

MR MNISI: I would like to further my education so that I can be able to support myself as well as  my parents.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Hugh, Russel?

RUSSELL ALLY: Sipho, fifteen is quite a young age to be so involved in political issues. I know that it was happening to many of the youth in the country, but could you just give us some idea of how it was at that relatively young age, 15 that you were so actively involved in politics?
 Sipho did you follow what I was saying or would you like to think about it?

MR MNISI: I didn't hear you quite well, your question was not clear and it wasn't complete.

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay I'll start again.  I wanted to know how it was that in such a young age, 15 years old, you became so actively involved in politics. What caused that,  led  you become involved?

MR MNISI: I liked the ANC.

RUSSELL ALLY: The township that you were living in at the time and in which I suppose you still live in...(intervention)

MR MNISI: Yes I'm still staying at the same place.

RUSSELL ALLY: ...throughout the early 1990's was characterised by quite a lot of political struggle and conflict, rent boycotts, consumer boycotts.  Can you just tell us from your own experience, what it was like living through this period.  What life was like in Thandukukhanya at that stage?

MR MNISI: There was a lot of violence at that time in Thandukukhanya.  At times you would get attacked whilst walking down the street or you would hear some gun fire from the opposite direction.

RUSSELL ALLY: And how would you respond to what the police were saying about what was happening at that time.  For example they say that during this period the youth would go around intimidating people, stoning people, attacking police, burning down places and that they became involved in order to try to restore some law and order or to bring peace into the township?

MR MNISI: No the police were not just attacked at random.  The police themselves would provoke the youth.  Thereafter the youth would retaliate later on.

RUSSELL ALLY: So there were attacks. You say the youth were provoked.  What was the nature of these attacks?  How would the police be attacking?

MR MNISI: At times the hostel dwellers would block the taxis and say the people were not supposed to go to work and instead of the police intervening and blocking the hostel dwellers, they would come and fight us as the youth. They were collaborating with the hostel dwellers.

RUSSELL ALLY: But during this period a name that comes up very often from the side of the police is a certain Captain Pretorious.  Does that name mean anything to you?

MR MNISI: Yes I do know the name, it sounds familiar.

RUSSELL ALLY: What do you know about this person.  Is there anything more you can tell us?

MR MNISI: I knew that he was the station commander at that time and I had an encounter with him when he assaulted my sibling who was incarcerated by him.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Sipho, are your parents still alive?

MR MNISI: Yes my mother is still alive.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And then brothers and sisters?

MR MNISI: Yes they are still alive.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And do you know anything about the parents of those youths who died at the attack which you survived?

MR MNISI: No I don't know anything.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You mean you don't know those families or you don't...(intervention)?

MR MNISI: I do not know the families of the deceased.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But did you attend any of the mass funerals of some of these youths that you were with?

MR MNISI: No I was hospitalised at that time.

THOMAS MANTHATA: On coming out of the hospital there was never a follow-up of what happened to some of your comrades and their families perhaps?

MR MNISI: Yes I tried to find out more information but I failed.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, the thrust of my question is based on, there should be almost a common feeling amongst the families that lost their children during that time, and if there isn't that, I would be seeing the youth who survived perhaps going out of their way to find out about those families and how do they think about their children who died.

MR MNISI: Yes we tried to get some more information as the youth, but we came across brick walls.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You came against brick walls as the youth and have you tried to look for some acceptable people in the community who could perhaps help you to reach those families?

MR MNISI: No we never enlisted any help of any prominent person.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Because I think where you have lost the closest of friends, where you were involved in a common action, you would never be happy until you know what you can do for them or what you can do for their families.  Hence one would think that where you met brick walls, you should go out of your way to find out who can be of help to you to reach these families.

MR MNISI: We tried but we couldn't get any information.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Are you still being together as youth, you know, with a leadership and with a common purpose of some kind amongst yourselves?

MR MNISI: No not at this juncture.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But what's the relationship so far in your township between the elderly people and the youth that you still belong to, who still push a certain line of action.  Is there any understanding between the elderly people and the youth of your group?

MR MNISI: Yes there is.

THOMAS MANTHATA: In short you are saying you can console the families that have lost their children andy you can even put together the entire community for a peaceful living amongst yourselves?

MR MNISI: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Sipho, I just want to ask one question myself before I sum up.  Can you tell us and/or show us the extent of the damage that took place because you were shot as I understand it, in the jaw. You've already described in your statement how much difficulty you have eating.  Can you just tell us a little bit about that?

MR MNISI: When I got injured the bullets went through one side of my jaw, out through the other side of my jaw and I lost some teeth, and when there's thunder and when it's cold, I should keep myself indoors and warm because when there's lightning and thunder I can feel it through my jaws.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you also tell us what help you have been able to, besides the treatment that you received at the time of the shooting.  What other help have you been able to receive in terms of helping you with the problems that you have now?

MR MNISI: Yes I used to go to the hospital for treatment but I am no longer going there now.

CHAIRPERSON: Sipho, my last question is, you presumably were a student at the time when the shooting took place.  How did the shooting affect your schooling at the time and subsequently?