Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very very much, I think because we are going to go through this, if you would now go through, you want to now take us through the press statement. If you might be able to just do that crisply.

MURPHY MOROBE: Yes, okay, no I just thought Chairperson ...(indistinct) what was going on my mind at the time.
 We then went about dealing with this statement because this statement is the major intervention that the Mass Democratic Movement made on this issue.  Now as you would sense from the statement, the statement had been actually cast in such a way that it was clear that there was a number things that we were uncertain.  There were certain common threats even amongst the issues and the reports that we were getting. One of which was the element that we referred to in the statement relating to what we referred to as the obvious complicity of Mrs Mandela with respect to say the disappearance and even the subsequent death of Stompie Seipei.  Now it's a statement that took us many hours to construct.  In fact to be precise, over six hours it took us to actually get to a point where it became more or less a reasonable statement that would not even go to a point of levelling the accusation that the individual who is the subject of the statement  is by definition guilty of what we actually say is the reason for us making this statement. 
 So the point about this statement Chairperson is that this was a statement that we hope with its being put into the system would help in stemming the tide of what we began to see as an explosive situation in Soweto and I'm sure that people that were observers at the time would actually take note of the fact that there was a degree to which it had a desired effect because certainly, here was a statement that said, irrespective of who you are in the organisation and in the liberation movement, it is important that we become uncompromising against issues relating to violations of human rights because it is precisely because we are fighting against that from the system that some of us went to jail, some of us were tortured in jail and it was therefore important that we shouldn't get to a situation where we condoned these activities and perhaps one might say, as you would know Bishop, that in some ways God works in mysterious ways.  That certain things would then happen in order to present you with opportunities to make certain decisions that you cannot necessarily plan for in advance.  It happened that this was the case involving Mrs Madikizela Mandela and at that time for us the question was not whether, who she was, it was a question of what lay behind the decision that we made.
 Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you I thought you were going to be - Hanif you..

MR VALLY: Thank you.  What the Archbishop was going to say is we thought you were going to read your statement into the record but that's no problem, we have your statement.

CHAIRPERSON: You haven't actually finished because you have a 20 here which you didn't in your submission.

MURPHY MOROBE: I happen to be a chairperson as well, Chairperson and I always respect chairpersons when they tell me to stop.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you should complete.

MURPHY MOROBE: Okay.  Just to complete then Chairperson, for me personally they issue here is that this process is important for me because this statement has had a profound effect for me as an individual on my relationship with Mrs Madikizela Mandela who I'd come to know from a very early age in the early '70's.  In fact it could be said I actually grew up under her.  And in fact it has an effect on me in terms of my relationship with here and with many others inside and outside of the movement, who, given the proximity or otherwise to the intensity of the events being investigated by the TRC, who would at the time and perhaps even now still have taken positions one way or the other.  I'm saying this because if you stayed in Orlando West you would have one sense of these issues, and perhaps an even more intensive sense of what was happening around the Football Club.  If you stayed in Zola or in Meadowlands perhaps you would experience events like Mr Sono experienced there, you know intermittent forays into your area.  And if you stayed very in Bisho or you know in Pampierstad, these events should be very remote from you and I think those of us who were right in the situation had the level of intensity.
 Now the point I'm making in conclusion is that what I got involved in as  Murphy Morobe had nothing to do with a personal vendetta I have against  Mrs Mandela, I think there were issues of principle here that for me it was important that my organisation, my movement begin to confront upfront. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Hanif.

MR VALLY: Thank you Arch.  Gentlemen what do you say to the proposition that your statement that you issued on the 16th of February 1989 is part of a Stratcom operation?

MURPHY MOROBE: Well I'm glad that Paul Erasmus saw us on your list of witnesses.  I'm sure he will be able to give you advice on that but all I can say for me, that's a ridiculous proposition.  I've made the point here that arising out of the events in Soweto I was part of the drafting of the statement.  We drafted the statement right until about 3 AM the 16th of February.  There was no member from Stratcom in that situation unless you're telling me that perhaps somewhere there were machinations of Stratcom of which we had no power over, and I have indicated in the statement and what I've actually said, that in fact it was common cause, I think there are documents that have been put, the ANC Submission also I think has had indications of how Stratcom was operating those days and in this particular case, as you would see from the events in all of what people are saying, no one said that that there was a Stratcom involvement here.  This was a Mass Democratic Statement, this statement is consistent with our feelings in the UDF in particular and the Mass Democratic Movement subsequent to this statement, actually endorsed it at a formal at a sitting.

MR VALLY: If Mrs Madikizela Mandela was involved in these activities as is set out in more detail in Mr Cachalia's submission, and if you Mr Morobe felt that it was important enough to release this press statement which has very strong allegations, very briefly we are outraged by the reign of terror that the Team has been associated with.  We are of the view that Mrs Mandela has abused the trust and confidence which she has enjoyed over the years.  We are outraged at Mrs Mandela's complicity in the recent abductions and assault of Stompie.  Had Stompie and his three colleagues not been abducted by Mrs Mandela's Football Team, he would have been alive today.  Very strong allegations, very strong statements.  Did the UDF, being the structure that both of you belong to, not consider it correct to approach Mrs Madikizela Mandela directly on this issue?

MURPHY MOROBE: Chairperson, through you, it is common cause that upon the occurrences beginning to happen in the way that can be described in various statements and even in the reports by the Crisis Committee, initiatives were taken.  I have also indicated what the state and the situation was in respect of the organisations, people being banned etc.  But an initiative was taken by local leaders of the Mass Democratic Movement in Soweto.  Reverend Frank Chikane, Sidney Mufamadi etc, they were part of our structures, they were part of the MDM, and for us that was sufficient by way of an interest and a desire to intervene and try and resolve this.  I don't that there was a necessity for any other additional steps because we took the cue from that.