Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mrs Radebe, very much.  We again thank you very much for coming in today.  We again express our deep sympathy to you on the loss of your son, and we promise you that we will try and do what we are able to do to get to the bottom of this and find out who was responsible for your son's death.  Thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today.

COMMISSIONER: (Incomplete) ... about something that has happened to them.  We do have statement-takers here today, and they will be happy to take your statement.

QUESTIONER: We remind you that if there were any people who were tortured, harassed, who did not get any opportunity to give their statement there are statement-takers amongst us.  Please go forward, get in touch with the statement-takers so you can open up.

COMMISSIONER: And please can I just ask anybody here who has got a cell phone to please switch them off, because when it rings it interferes with the television cameras.  Thank you.  Mrs Dladla, thank you very much for coming in.  You have also come from Mkwanezi, which is in Murchison, like the other two witnesses before you, and this relates to a death of a family member as well, like the witness before you, and we express our sympathy to you.  Before we ask you to tell us that story please can you stand up and take the oath.

MANA BUSISIWE DLADLA: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

MR LACKS: Good morning, Mrs Dladla, thank you for coming.  Before we proceed to hear the story of the death of your uncle could you just tell us a little bit about your family.  How are you related to the person that died, Robert Dladla?

WITNESS:   It's my uncle.

MR LACKS: And how many of you were living at home at that time, or how was your family made up of?

WITNESS:   I have two sisters.  We were six.

MR LACKS: Are your parents still around, or are they still

MR LACKS: alive?

WITNESS:   No, they died. Your uncle, did he have any children, was he married?   ---   He was not married and he had two children.

MR LACKS: The mother of those children, where does she live?

WITNESS:   She died as well.

MR LACKS: Who looks after those children at the moment?

WITNESS:  My eldest sister who's working is the one taking care of the children.

MR LACKS: Now, at that time you were living at Nkanyezini.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LACKS: Did your family always come from that area, or did you come from another place before that?

WITNESS:   We were born at Nkanyezini at that place.

MR LACKS: Now, was the deceased a member of any political party, was he involved in any politics of any kind?

WITNESS:  No, he was not a member, and he knew nothing inasfar as politics are concerned.

MR LACKS: Thank you.  Now, you've told us in your statement that this incident happened on the 11th of April 1991.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LACKS: And you said that earlier in that day your cousin, Bhekithemba Radebe, had been murdered.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LACKS: That's the same person we've just heard about now.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR LACKS: Please tell us as far as you know what then happened that evening, you said round about 9 o'clock, when this second incident happened.

WITNESS:   We stay with my grandmother.  We arrived to my grandmother that night and they told us that we have to sit in one place, and they told us a man should go to a camp.  It was in that evening as we were sitting, and then two men came into the house and they said - one of them said, "We would like to get into your house and light a cigarette."  The other one said, "No, we mustn't do it here because when the attackers come here they will find us here.  They might even end up injuring these female people inside here."  After they went out of the house we just heard some sound, and he was crying, crying, he was calling his mum, and after that we didn't hear any cry.  I asked from my grandmother to go outside to relieve myself, and she said, "You mustn't go outside because it's dangerous outside," and then I couldn't go outside.  It was early in the morning and it was dark, and I insisted that I should go out and relieve myself.  When I get out and I meet one of the neighbours from the Dladla family and they said that they have taken my uncle to hospital.  They told me that one aunt from the Mfeka family they have carried my uncle to hospital with a wheelbarrow, and I decided to go and see him at 10 o'clock.  When I arrived I realised that he was badly injured.

MR LACKS: It's okay, you can take your time.   (Pause)   Do you think you can continue now?

WITNESS:  I tried to ask him as to, "Who hurt you?"  He told me that some other men attacked him, and I asked him their names and he gave me their names.  He was injured on the face there, and I went to see him on Friday.  Later on Saturday we went back to see him.  Unfortunately when we arrived there was some liquid oozing from his mouth.  He was stabbed all over the body.  On that day he couldn't even talk, on Saturday evening when we went to see him.  We used to sleep at the hospital, and in the morning we decided to go home from the hospital and we went home.  My dad sent me to go and tell the relatives that my uncle's dead.

MR LACKS: (Inaudible) ... the names of the people that he told you that's fine, you can tell it to us later, but if you feel free that's okay.  Could you tell us who he mentioned, the people who attacked him?

WITNESS:   I think I included the name in my statement.

MR LACKS: You've mentioned to us in your statement there were a group of you inside the room that were staying together that night with your grandmother.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR LACKS: You said there were about 10 of you.

WITNESS:   I don't remember well the figure.

MR LACKS: (Inaudible) ... and come to your grandmother's house.  Did I hear you correctly?  You said you had run away and gone to stay at your grandmother's house, is that right?  Did I hear you properly?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR LACKS: Where did you run away from?

WITNESS:   I was from my home and I ran to my grandmother.

MR LACKS: What made you to run away?

WITNESS:   There was fighting, and one of my aunt's sons was killed.

MR LACKS: You uncle spent how many days altogether before he died in hospital?  Can you remember?

WITNESS:   I will say he stayed for one day, because he was injured on Thursday and he died on Saturday morning.

MR LACKS: By the time you saw him on Saturday evening he had passed away?

WITNESS:   When we arrived he was not yet dead.  They were still trying to treat him and he died at that time.

MR LACKS: Now, did you ever report this matter to the police?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't. Do you know whether there was ever a case about his death of any kind?   ---   There wasn't such a case.

MR LACKS: Now, you said to us that your uncle had been told, together with other men, to go to a camp that night.

WITNESS:  Yes, they were from a camp at the time they arrived at the house.

MR LACKS: Do you want to explain to those of us who don't know about these things what was the camp, what were they doing there?

WITNESS:   They were camping because they normally fight during the day.  Then they wanted to try to prevent the people who are coming to attack during the day.  Unfortunately these people arrived at night.

MR LACKS: So the camping was a grouping together of men for the sake of protecting the area?

WITNESS:   That's true.

MR LACKS: (Inaudible) ... during the day and the people gathered together for protection?

WITNESS:   That's true.

MR LACKS: Do you know whether anyone else died on that day besides your cousin?

WITNESS:   No, he was the only one who died.

MR LACKS: Busisiwe, as you have already told us about the loss that you suffered, you said that you uncle did have a meeting with police.  Which police force from which government?