Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-21

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's why Mr Chairperson, I'm saying this interpretation because it's thought he specifically referred to himself, not to them.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think we accept what you say Mr Mbandazayo and the best way was - when the limpet mine was shown to you, do you know where Xolani was?

MFUNDI SEYISI: He was in his room.

MR LAX: Thanks Chairperson.  So Xolani was in his room and where were you and Mr Namba?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I was also in my room, he came to me to show it to me.

MR LAX: So he came to your room, he showed you the limpet mine.  What did you do, did you look at it, did you ask him about, why did he even show it to you?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I looked at it and I asked him, he said we were going to accompany him to Umbilo.

MR LAX: What happened after that?  He told you that, he showed you the limpet mine, what happened after that?

MFUNDI SEYISI: We stayed for quite some time or a while, thereafter we left.  We went to board the bus.

MR LAX: Well before you would leave, how did Xolani know that he should come with you?

MFUNDI SEYISI: After he left I don't know where he went to, that is why I say we stayed for quite some time or a while, thereafter we left.

MR LAX: Sorry I don't understand your answer.  Explain what you are saying to me?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Robert left my room.

MR LAX: And so you do not know where he went after that?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I do not know where he went thereafter.

MR LAX: Because you said "we" waited for quite some time?

MFUNDI SEYISI: What I meant was that we did not leave at that particular moment, we remained in the area for quite a while after having discussed the issue.

MR LAX: Yes.  What I'm trying to understand is, he shows you the landmine, he says to you we're going to go and put this at Umbilo Police Station, he then leaves your room and then there's a delay of some time.  He didn't discuss any other preparations with you at all?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No he never elaborated beyond the fact we were going to accompany him to the police station at Umbilo because he specifically said we were going to accompany them.

MR LAX: Yes.  At the time he said you were going to accompany him was Xolani present?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I've already said he was in his room.

MR LAX: So when did he tell Xolani to accompany both of you, that's you and he?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I wouldn't know, but we left all of us.

MR LAX: You see your earlier evidence was that he told you and Xolani together that you were going to Umbilo.  At some point you were together when he told you that.  Now you're saying he told him separately from you.  I'm a bit puzzled.

MFUNDI SEYISI: I was all by myself when he told me but I got the implication that he had told Xolani because we left all at the same time.

MR LAX: You see when I asked you about it, it was right in the beginning when I started asking you questions and I wanted to know about that and you were quite clear that you and Xolani and he were together when he told you you were going to Umbilo.

MFUNDI SEYISI: You might have misunderstood me.

MR LAX: Now you were not a member of APLA?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I was a member of PASO.

MR LAX: Yes but you haven't answered my question, you were not a member of APLA, yes or no?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No I wasn't.

MR LAX: Well when Mr Mpshe was asking you about these issues on your affidavit around paragraph 14 of that affidavit and whether that related to your objective in relation to the accident or in relation to the use of the limpet mine or the possession of the limpet mine, you said
"We as members of APLA"
and then you went on to talk about that being an APLA operation.  Was that a mistake on your part?  Why did you say that?

MFUNDI SEYISI: May I please rectify this?  Vuyani was a member of APLA.  We were members of PASO, but we helped each other, that is PASO and the PAC.

MR LAX: You see, as my colleague asked you what assistance were you going to give this man and you can't give us any indication of what assistance you might be to him.  You were totally untrained apart from accompanying him, there is no other possible assistance and even your accompaniment might have been a danger to him rather than an assistance to him?

MFUNDI SEYISI: We probably could have helped him when we reached the destination.  The time had not arrived for us to help him when the bomb or the limpet mine exploded.

MR LAX: Well how would you have helped him, what possible help could you have given him?

MFUNDI SEYISI: As I have already explained before that he was going to tell us as to what sort of help he needed and we were going to render any kind of help that he would have required us to.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Seyisi, when you got onto the bus did you sit next to Vuyani?

MFUNDI SEYISI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you sit in relation to him and can you also tell us where Xolani sat, where about did the three of you sit on the bus.

MFUNDI SEYISI: I was occupying the seat in front of theirs and they were sitting behind me.

CHAIRPERSON: In what was the limpet mine contained when you got onto the bus?

MFUNDI SEYISI: It was inside a bag.

CHAIRPERSON: Then when you say a bag do you mean a - what sort of bag, a plastic bag or a sports bag or a leather bag?

MFUNDI SEYISI: It was a small bag, it was a leather handbag.  It was smallish not a very big handbag.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know if that bag was opened and the bomb touched at all during the journey on the bus?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I did not necessarily see what happened because they were seated behind me.

CHAIRPERSON: When Vuyani Namba showed you the limpet mine at Red Hill did you see a detonator?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I did not see the limpet mine as a whole as he actually covered it or it was covered in whatever thing it was covered in, I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: So you just got a brief glance at it?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes we just glanced at it.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you injured as a result of the explosion yourself?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes I was.

CHAIRPERSON: How serious were your injuries?

MFUNDI SEYISI: My right ear is - I suffer from a loss of hearing from my right ear and my right side as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that the first time that you had embarked on what we can call a military operation with an APLA cadre?

MFUNDI SEYISI: Yes it was the very first time.

CHAIRPERSON: And how old were you at the time, Mr Seyisi?

MFUNDI SEYISI: I was 21 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.  I believe Mr Lax has indicated he wants to ask you one further question.

MR LAX: Thanks Chairperson.
	Mr Seyisi, just this bag interests me, you say it was a small leather bag.  Where did the bag come from?

MFUNDI SEYISI: It was Xolani's bag.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Seyisi, that brings your testimony to a conclusion, you may stand down now.
WITNESS EXCUSED