Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-14

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, there was.  There was Mr Gabela who had a house an Nyoni under Nkosi Mataba's district.  He usually wore a black robe and represented people in court, although eventually it emerged that he was never a qualified or professional Attorney.

MR WILLS: It transpired that this person, Mr Gabela was in fact tried by the Magistrate's court at Ntinzeni and found, and convicted under provisions of the Attorney's Act for not being a lawyer, that is the case, not so?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: You then - I want to turn now to the incident that you referred to in paragraph 65, page 107 of the record, that involves the action that you took as a result of the incident where Constable Dunca was killed and Constable MacBeth Ngubane was seriously injured.
	I am going to go through this incident relatively quickly, or attempt to.  My understanding is that you were present when Constable Dunca was killed, in fact he was in your arms when he died, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: He died in my arms.

MR WILLS: And you conducted certain investigations and you got the information that a certain person whose code name, and MK person, by the name of Mbanda was in fact responsible for this attack?  Is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.  We all knew in the syndicate that the  ZP who were attacked at J1, were attacked mainly by a person known as Mbanda who was trained by MK and who used to infiltrate schools and posed as a student and mobilised the youth and mobilised attacks against ANC congress enemies.
	We knew this person by the name of Mbanda.  He was not only responsible for attacking Dunca.  There are other incidents at J1, that occurred as I have explained in my affidavit.
	Incidents like that of Constable MacBeth Ngubane, all those who had been attacked in J1.

MR WILLS: And you say in your affidavit that as a result of that incident where Constable Dunca was killed, you wanted to take some action and so you discussed a plan of action with Mrs Mbuyasi and Chief Mataba.
	I am referring to page, your affidavit page 36 and page 108 of the record.  Do you recall that?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, I remember.

MR WILLS: What was decided at that meeting, what action was decided upon, that is arising out of the meeting between yourselves and Mrs Mbuyasi and Chief Mataba?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Let me explain this a bit.  Our problem was that the ANC was still strong, if they could afford to attack a ZP van, like Constable Ngubane was shot whilst he was inside a van.
	(Indistinct) was also attacked in full uniform at J1.  He is today crippled.  Dunca was also attacked in J1, he is now deceased.  We were then forced to do something about this, not necessarily because of retaliation purposes, but because there was political fighting.
	It had become clear that if Police could be attacked or defeated by the ANC, it meant that at the end the Police station would be mainly manned by ANC Policemen.  Therefore it became clear that we were going to lose our support, even from the Police.  
	As I have mentioned that the most important thing that we were fighting over was support.  This necessitated that we should take steps to make sure that these attacks on Police people are stopped. 
	We discovered that people at J1 were reluctant to give information on who was killing these Police, nobody was willing to talk to the Police.  No one would come forward and give information on the death or the attack on Policemen.  It became clear to us that these people were all ANC supporters, so we decided to take action to stop these attacks on Police.
	We then agreed in the meeting that if the ANC attacks a Policeman, we would then go directly to that area where the Policeman was attacked, and kill or shoot everybody in the area, to send a message to the ANC that they are being hit because they had attacked a Policeman.
	We were wanting to stop this practise.  We wanted the ANC to know that if they attack a Policeman, people will die.
	That is why when Constable Dunca was killed, I decided to collect my group and go to the area where he was killed, and attack those people.

MR WILLS: Yes, and indeed you did that and together with you was Mr Mbambo, Mr Hlongwane, Mr Dhlamini and Siobonga Mbuyasi and as I understand, that person is the older brother of Lucky Mbuyasi, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, we did.  Yes, the others that you haven't mentioned, Constable Mthetwa.  It may be I also didn't mention them in the affidavit, but they were there.

MR WILLS: Yes, you have indeed mentioned Mthetwa in the affidavit.  You then conducted an attack with these people in J1 section.  When you were in fact driving a kwaZulu Police van and you have listed that as ZP777, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, I was driving the car.

MR WILLS: And you have indicated that as a result of that attack, you came to the knowledge that a person by the name, a female by the name of Mathilda was killed and other people were injured?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes.  I am not sure of all the people who were effected or hit in that area, but a lot of them or a lot of people were hit.  We were not really specific on who we attacked, but we attacked at random.
	I am however, sure that Mathilda was killed in that incident.  There are others who have also been hit and got injured but did not die.

MR WILLS: You then say that you picked up your men, you were the driver of the vehicle and you went back to Mrs Mbuyasi's house where you found her together with the Chief and you must be, I presume, referring to Chief Mataba and you were questioned about what kind of firearms you were using, because the gunshots were heard from Mrs Mbuyasi's house?  And then you later reported that to Major Langeni, is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: And at the same time when reporting that to Major Langeni, you were requesting more ammunition because you were running out of ammunition?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: As a result of the request for more ammunition, you got more ammunition?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: You have never been charged or prosecuted for this incident?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: No.

MR WILLS: I want to turn now to the incident involving the kidnapping and murder of Nathi Gomedi, which starts at your paragraph 68 at the bottom of page 108 of the record.
	You have indicated in your affidavit, the circumstances surrounding why Nathi Gomedi was isolated as a target and it is very briefly and I am going to summarise your affidavit very briefly, it relates to the fact that it was believed by you that he was the main principle in an attempt to fabricate charges against Mr Mbambo, car theft charges with the result that Mr Mbambo could well have been arrested?   Is that correct?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, it is so.

MR WILLS: And as a result of this, you and Mr Mbambo attended a meeting at Prince Gideon Zulu's house in Ulundi where this issue was discussed, not so?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us who was at that meeting and what decision was taken at that meeting?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: It wasn't a formal meeting as such.  The people who were present were Prince Gideon Zulu and his son, I have forgotten his name, and Mhlanduna, Mr Dalaqolo Luthuli, and Romeo and myself.  There was also Prince Gideon's driver, Mr Nyaosa, we held this meeting on the front lawn on Prince Gideon Zulu's house.

MR WILLS: What was decided at the meeting?

BRIAN QUNA MKHIZE: The decision was that Nathi Gomedi should be killed immediately.  It was not only Nathi whom was decided that he should be killed, but a certain Mr Khumalo from Eshowe was also mentioned, as well as a security guard who worked at the Eshowe hospital, although I forget his name.