Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-26

CHAIRPERSON: We are resuming with the so-called CCB Hearing.  I welcome everybody back.  Is the legal representation as before?  No changes.  When we adjourned, Mr Basson was being questioned by Mr Kahanovitz.  Mr Kahanovitz, are you in a position to proceed?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We've also just been handed a bundle of photographs, I don't know if everybody is in possession of these photographs.  I think we may as well deal with them now.  Is there any objection to these being handed in as an exhibit?  There's an obvious error in the affidavit, it was signed on a date that doesn't exist, two weeks, referring to events that took place weeks after the date of the signature thereof, I'm sure that's meant to be the 31st of August, not September, '89.  And also, if one reads that paragraph it looks like it should be two dates, because "we were there in the evening and then the next morning", so it's probably the 31st of August '89 and the 1st of September '89, but I don't think much hangs on that.

MS COLERIDGE: We'll call it Exhibit K, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Exhibit K.  Each of the photographs are numbered, so we'll call it K and then when we refer to a particular photograph it will be K1, 2, 3 whatever one is being referred to.
	Mr Basson, I think we'll take the oath again seeing it was so long ago since you took the last one.

WOUTER J BASSON: (sworn states)

MR KAHANOVITZ: Mr Chairman, just two procedural matters.  There is another legal representative and maybe that should be placed on record.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Kahanovitz.

MR STIPP: Good day, Your Worship, my name is Riaan Stipp, I'm here for Mr Hardien, my firm is De Klerk and Van Gend Attorneys.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is that S-t-i-p-p?

MR STIPP: Yes, Your Worship.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Stipp.

MS COLERIDGE: And Chairperson, just before we proceed, I'd just like to place on record the extra documentation which is bundle H, I and J.  Bundle H and I are the transcripts, Chairperson, and then bundle J would be the copy of Wouter Basson's diary.

CHAIRPERSON: Does everybody have a copy of these bundles?  Thank you.   Yes, Mr Kahanovitz.

MR KAHANOVITZ: The other issues relate to errors in the typed record.  Might I suggest in the interests of progress, that I just point out the page and the error and then one could ask the other representatives at some later stage during the day, whether they agree that those are indeed errors?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, Mr Kahanovitz.  We'll start with bundle H.

MR KAHANOVITZ: At page 147 of the record there's a quote from the finding of Judge Harms, at the bottom of the page there's a reference to
"Verster, Brand, Cillier and Britz"
Judge Harms' finding refers to:
"Verster, Braam Cilliers"
is what should be typed there, not Brand, Cillier.  
	Then at the very first line at top of page 154, Mr Bizos is putting a question to Mr Verster and he's asking whether a certain person was a member of the inner core, that person's surname starts with an "M", Meerholtz, not with an N.
	Then in, I think it's been called bundle H, at page 1006, the very last line of that page Mr van Zyl is quoting from his own statement and the sentence reads:
"would involve the elimination of a man by the name of Gavin Evans"
Mr van Zyl's statement actually reads:
"Michael Gavin Evans"
	Then at page 1129, I'm reading from ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: 1129?

MR KAHANOVITZ: I'm reading there from the statement of the bomb export, sorry bomb expert, where I say
"I determined that the explosive device was detonated"
it says 10H35, it should read:
"20H35"

MR MARTINI: Sorry, Chairperson, why should it read 20H35?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Because that's what his statement says.

CHAIRPERSON: It's a quote from the statement.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Those are all the errors that I noticed in reading the record.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thank you very much, Mr Kahanovitz, you may now proceed with the questioning of Mr Basson.

MR KAHANOVITZ: (Cont)
	Mr Basson, you've already testified that in October 1989 you were told to shift the emphasis of your work from co-ordinating Region 6 to co-ordinating Region 2, you recall that evidence?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I think that is what I said.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You recall the context was as to why people with the names of Nick and Theo became involved in the Omar project at the time that the poisoning plan was being implemented?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, that is correct, it was after Mr Botes resigned.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now your evidence was also that you had worked on Region 2 projects before you became involved in Region 6.

WOUTER J BASSON: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And just for purposes of the record, Region 2 is Mozambique and Swaziland.

WOUTER J BASSON: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I take it that you were involved in Region 2 activities in 1988.

WOUTER J BASSON: Foreign operations.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes by definition, Mozambique and Swaziland are outside the country.  My question is, were you involved in Region 2 activities in 1988?

WOUTER J BASSON: I cannot recall specific operations or incidents, however I was a Co-ordinator for a period of time, I was a Co-ordinator of Region 2.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What period?  For what period in 1988 were you the Co-ordinator of Region 2?

WOUTER J BASSON: I think it was, and I'm speaking under correction, but I think it was the first  six months of 1988.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So I take it that in April 1988 you were the Co-ordinator of Region 2?

WOUTER J BASSON: I think so, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Would you care to tell the - or let me preface the question this way.  Pieter Botes says that at that stage he was the Regional Commander of Region 2, is that correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: Perhaps I should just clarify that the moment when Mr Botes was recruited for the organisation, from that moment onwards my duties fell away as the Co-ordinator for Region 2, and I handed over all the administrative and other projects of that time to him.  I just cannot specifically recall the time when this took place.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Can we just clarify here.  Mr Botes says he was the Regional Commander, or the other word that has been used here, the Regional Manager, in other words he occupied a position similar to that of Staal Burger vis-a-vis Region 6.

WOUTER J BASSON: Correct, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: In other words, he wasn't the Co-ordinator, is that correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: I am not certain how his structure functioned, he was also a Co-ordinator and he was never really viewed as the Regional Manager, due to his lower seniority to the rest of the Regional Managers he was viewed as more of a Co-ordinator enjoying the functions of a Co-ordinator but he was also someone who managed projects in that capacity.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Would you care to tell the Committee about some of the CCB projects in Mozambique in 1988, that you were involved in?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, once again we are with foreign projects and I don't know if I will have to repeat myself regarding my sentiment and viewpoint regarding this.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Let me put some - so you're saying you, if I understand it in line with what you have previously said, you are unwilling to tell the Committee about your involvement in CCB projects in Mozambique in 1988?

WOUTER J BASSON: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: I just want to place before for your comment, certain things that Pieter Botes has to say about CCB projects undertaken in Mozambique, both in 1988 and in 1989.
	Mr Chairman, with your leave I'd like to hand up excerpts from the book by the journalist, Jacques Pauw.  It's been previously referred to.  It's called "In the Heart of the Whore", the story of apartheid's death squads.  It was published in 1991.  I have for the convenience of all concerned, drawn a line down the margin of the specific paragraphs that I intend referring to.