Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-08

JUDGE WILSON: I think it should be placed on record that the Judge in the portion of the judgmentmade available to us indicated he didn't think the witness was a very satisfactorywitness. But in the portion of the judgment lent to me by Mr Arendse the Judgemade the finding that as no ownership had been proved as regards the wallethe could make no finding, so no finding was made at the trial although evidencewas led.
	One other aspectI would like to ask your comments on, you have told us, as has the previouswitness, what One Settler, one bullet meant, that it meant killthe Whites, that is so isn't it?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes that is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: Now do you remember at your trial Mongesi Manqina gave evidence? He is the gentlemansitting at the end of the row isn't he?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes I do remember.

JUDGE WILSON: And he said he was the vice chairman of his branch of PASO.

MR NOFEMELA: That is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: And he gave evidence that the slogan One Settler, one bullet,a settler means anyone who was not in agreement with what theAfricans want, do you remember him giving that evidence?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes I do remember.

JUDGE WILSON: And when he was asked to give an example of this sort of person he gave thename of Chief Gatsha Buthelezi as being a settler, do you rememberthat?

MR NOFEMELA: I do remember that.

JUDGE WILSON: He further said the slogan was not aimed at killing. ...(intervention)

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman may I interject.

JUDGE WILSON: He further said it was a slogan that was not aimed at killing, do you rememberhim saying that?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes I do remember him saying that.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Nofemela do you agree with that explanation given by Mr Manqina before thatforum? Do you agree with the explanation given by Mr Manqina of what the sloganOne Settler, one bullet means?

MR NOFEMELA: No I don't agree because we did not want to be sentenced, we only wanted tobe found not guilty.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So the explanation that you have given today you would regard in your opinionas the right explanation, or at least as how you understand the slogan to meanto you?

MR NOFEMELA: That is correct.

JUDGE WILSON: He was the only one of you who gave evidence wasn't he?

MR NOFEMELA: If I remember well he was the only one.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Mr Chairman if I may now interject. I think it should also then be put to theapplicant that accused no.1 the Court found that he did not impress the Courtas a truthful witness, in fact the Court found that he lied. And the applicantManqina will deal with that aspect when he testifies before this Committee.

JUDGE WILSON: He was then dealing with the fact that he wasn't guilty wasn't he?

NORMAN ARENDSE: That's correct.

JUDGE WILSON: He said he wasn't at the launch of the branch, he made all sorts of denialsand that is what the Court made findings about.

NORMAN ARENDSE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Miss Gozo any re-examination?

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Mr Nofemela what was the situation in the township?

CHAIRPERSON: When?

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: During the time when Amy Biehl was killed.

MR NOFEMELA: The situation was very bad in the township.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Why do you say that?

MR NOFEMELA: Because the teachers were fighting for their own rights and the students werealso fighting for their rights. Cars were stoned and some were burnt down.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: And would you say that was in fact the reason why it was, the reason why youhave said earlier in your evidence that it was not safe for White people tocome to the township unprotected?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes, because they were not safe to go to our locations.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Nr Nofemela, in your own words, do you think you can today, you can tell theCommittee what effects the incident had on the people who were coming from thelaunch, what effect did the incident with the police have on them?

MR NOFEMELA: What happened with the police is that they shot at us. Some of the White peoplewho were passing by also helped the police. That made us to be very emotional,that each and every White person we met we will try and do something to thatperson.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Could this have been the mood that you have time and again referred to in yourevidence before the Committee?

MR NOFEMELA: Could this?

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Could this have been the mood that you have time and again referred to in yourevidence before the Committee? May I interject Mr Chair, the interpretationis not quite accurate. Can I please repeat that. Could this have been the moodthat you have time and again referred to in your evidence today before the AmnestyCommittee?

ADV DE JAGER: Could you put it to him in your language.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Is this the mood that you are talking about in this evidence you are givingin front of the Committee, that has had an effect on what you did, can you tellthe Committee?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Can you please tell the Committee, you have already said you were a PASO member,did you hold any position in the leadership?

MR NOFEMELA: Yes.

ADV GOZO COMMITTEE: Can you please tell the Committee?

MR NOFEMELA: I was the organiser.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONSBY ADV GOZO

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Were you an organiser for the branch or the regional or the national?

MR NOFEMELA: Our unit at school.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: By the way, in what standard were you that year?

MR NOFEMELA: I was in standard eight.

JUDGE WILSON: Do I understand that the unit was only launched on the 25th of August 1993,that that was what the launch was? Oh no sorry, you were at Joe Slovo High Schoolweren't you? What is now called Joe Slovo High School and you attended thisother launch, no, sorry, I withdraw that question.

MR NOFEMELA: That is correct.
NO FURTHER RE-EXAMINATIONBY ADV GOZO

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you may proceed.

NORMAN ARENDSE: Thank you Mr Chairman. Can I then move on to Mongesi Christopher Manqina. CanI also then hand up the original affidavit as Exhibit C.
EXHIBIT C HANDEDUP - AFFIDAVIT M MANQINA

NORMAN ARENDSE: May I proceed Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Please do.