Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-23

MR HEWIT: Yes and did you also hear that Romeo Mbambo said that he had been arrested by a Captain Struiwig of the vehicle theft unit on a charge of robbery of a motor vehicle. Did you hear that evidence too?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I heard.

MR HEWIT: Now once again I would like just to place on record your affidavit dealing, on certain parts of your affidavit dealing with incident number 7 which is this murder of a person named Nate Gumede. Do you understand?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do understand.

MR HEWIT: I am now reading from page 398 of your affidavit which is the typed page 24 and paragraph 50. That reads as follows: "Romeo mentioned that he wanted a certain person known as Nate Gumede to be eliminated." Do you confirm that? Do you confirm that, that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes it is in the affidavit.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) "I do not recall what the reason was for this person to be eliminated." Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I remember.

MR HEWIT: Then you say
"However in view of the fact that Romeo suggested it was because it appeared to be one of the normal missions I thought that this mission will also help the IFP because that was the purpose of every other mission. I therefore thought that Nate Gumede was a member of the ANC and hence a threat to the IFP."
Do you confirm that, that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I see that.

MR HEWIT: And do you agree with me that nowhere in your affidavit where you deal with the murder of Nate Gumede did you mention anything at all about a commercial transaction between Romeo and Nate Gumede? Nothing about motor vehicles at all? Do you agree with that? Do you agree with that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I explained before that I do not know Nate. I did not know and I was not concerned about that transaction. I do not know how it happened but what I know is that if I had been given instruction I will carry it out as directed. Anything other than that I was not concerned with. If my commander gave me an instruction to do something I would do as Nthena had directed. I would not object. And in this instance I also could not object. Anything other than that I did not know about. I do not know anything about that transaction sitting in the car.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) Mbambo?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) different hits or operations with Romeo Mbambo in the past, correct?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Do you believe the two of you built up a friendship together?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) that a certain camaraderie developed between the two of you? Soldier together, correct?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: Did you ask Romeo any details at all when he suggested Nate Gumede was to be eliminated? Did you ask him any details about this man? What is he supposed to have done, who is he, how do you know him? Any questions like that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I have already explained that when an instruction was given to me I would do that. An instruction had been given and I would not have objected to it.

MR HEWIT: Did you ask Romeo Mbambo anything about Nate Gumede, why he should be eliminated or anything like that? Can you remember?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Sir what I know is that Nate Gumede was a prominent ANC member at Langnesua, nothing beyond that.

MR HEWIT: You never specifically asked Romeo Mbambo any details about him?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: If a person had been certified a prominent member of the ANC he had to be killed that was my job.

MR HEWIT: My question is you never asked any specific questions about him? Please just answer that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: There was no reason to ask questions from them.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) did not ask any questions about him?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) we have in relation to the murder of Nate Gumede this strange feature that of the four accomplices who killed this man two of them were apparently arrested and charged independently for crimes involving motor vehicles. Namely Andile and also Romeo Mbambo. Do you say that is just a coincidence, it had nothing to do with the murder of Nate Gumede?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I do not understand what you are saying. Can you please repeat yourself?

MR HEWIT: You see what I am saying to you it looks like two of the members of the team which murdered Nate Gomede both have problems with motor vehicles and the police. So what I am suggesting to you was there ever any kind of criminal theft syndicate amongst those two? I am asking you do you know whether they had any criminal syndicate relating to crimes in relation to motor vehicles?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I do not know anything about that.

MR HEWIT: Did you ever hear at any stage that Romeo had been charged for robbery relating to a vehicle involving Nate Gomede?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I heard about that?

MR HEWIT: When did you first hear about that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: After Romeo had been arrested.

MR HEWIT: So just for the record when, well did you ever find it strange that Romeo had been arrested for a car theft and then shortly after that another member of the team which murdered Nate Gumede is also arrested for car theft? Did that ever strike you as strange?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would say in this regard Romeo had been arrested because of our activities. I do not know anything about car syndicates or that Romeo's connection with cars did not concern me. I did not know anything about it. All I knew was that we were supposed to kill Nate. I do not know anything about car thefts.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hewit just to be fair it must not be overlooked that we have evidence that Mr Mbambo was acquitted on the car theft charge. So if he was acquitted on the charge the arrest might reflect more on a mistake on the part of the police than him being let off on a technical point because we hear that he was acquitted after the leading of lengthy and in-depth evidence.

MR HEWIT: I am aware of that Mr Chairman. I just wanted those facts placed on record. And I have no further questions for the witness other than to state what I have done in relation to those persons whom I represent, namely that they deny their complicity in any crimes where they are implicated by this witness. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Hewit. Mr Mpshe do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes Mr Chairman just one question. Mr Dlamini I note in your affidavit in the Daliwe Mkhwanazi incident, the last sentence in your paragraph on page 402 you state that: "I can remember there was a passenger with him." Do you see that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Can you tell us as to whether this passenger was an adult or a child or a woman?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: It was an adult.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (...indistinct) by yourself?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I do not know he was hit because there was just one shot fired.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Do you remember in your evidence as well as that of Nthena is that after this incident he rushed to the police station to go and await any report in this regard? Did Nthena tell you as to whether two people died or one person died?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No he did not tell me. He just told me that Daliwe was dead.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chair that is all.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Stewart do you have any re-examination?
RE-

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Dlamini you have  testified that you were born on the twenty first (21st) of
September 1969, is that right?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: That is correct.

MR STEWART: And you went to join the KwaZulu police which led to your training in Caprivi starting in the earlier part of 1986, is that correct?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: That is correct.