Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-05

WITNESS:   I would like to take you back a bit to clarify and I will say that when the group came to Caprivi, they came as a single group.  There were four different groups.  They are not the groups I was referring to when I mentioned offensive and VIP, contra-mobilisation.  These are the groups which were selected after they have all completed their 18 weeks.  After completing their 18 weeks' training and concentrating on the same training, all of them, the purpose of that was to ensure that they shall receive the same training.  So after six weeks they could be divided and separated and then contra-mobilisation will transpire thereafter.  During that 18 weeks they were doing one and the same thing and one other thing that I would like to dilate upon is that at the time when I talked about the private company that was employed by the IFP, that was the response which I was given as a commissar, because they were asking me, the boys in Caprivi, as to why would we be trained by boers and yet we were fighting them?   Are we the liberation movement and what kind of liberation movement are we, fighting them and on the other hand the very same boers were training us.  That was the question which was put to me and I forward that question to Khumalo as well, asking the area in which we were training as to

MR MACADAM: /who

MR MACADAM: 2B who were the trainers as well, those who were training us and he told me that I shall respond to them in this way, tell them that it's a private company which has been employed by the IFP to train us, because I later discovered that some of them already knew that they were going to Israel, insomuch that that Caprivi area, as you may know as well, that it's Caprivi - it was given another name by them, that is Khaphanahum(?).  They did not know about Caprivi, they knew Khaphanahum instead.  That was explicitly showing that they knew what they were doing.  Those were the things they used to question me a lot about and themselves used to quarrel and argue also and they did that.  It was later discovered that some of them did not know anything, were naive, they were told that they were going there to be trained as police and as the training progressed, they started having questions that they put forward and that's where the name or the words transpired that the person who used to question a lot shall be sent to the bus(?) and that meant to kill that person and I was faced with this problem to explain to them, who knew the purpose of training as to why they were there, that those people had no mistake, but the organiser itself is the one which was supposed to explain to them where they were going, but now that they were there, there was nothing that should be done to them and no one will be killed or rather sent to the bus, but one thing that should be concentrated upon, is that they should be organised and work for Inkatha, so much that I even made them join Inkatha right there in the forest and it got better now that they saw that they were uniformed.  I want to show to the Commission that within these 18 weeks they were given

MR MACADAM: /uniformed

MR MACADAM: 2B uniformed training to kill, even though at the end they were going to be divided according to their areas of expertise that each person will belong to a certain group and those in contra-mobilisation should know exactly what his role is, as a soldier to operate either offensively or defensively, but knowing very well that he belonged to the contra-mobilisation unit.  After 18 weeks, after the selection, there were those who were specifically selected for a certain mission, namely offensive, meaning they will be completely.  No politics, no socialising, they would keep aloof from the community.  They will only follow the instructions of killing and they will be told to kill and go and kill and come back to where they would be kept.  I have already explained this term, but the people who were training there were South African soldiers.

MR MACADAM: You've told us earlier that you had yourself been a member of Umkhonto We Sizwe and had received military training while you were a member of this organisation?

WITNESS:  That is correct.

MR MACADAM: Can you comment on the training you received as a member of Umkhonto We Sizwe and the training which was given in the Caprivi to these recruits?

WITNESS:   The training that was received by the trainees in Caprivi was similar, exactly to the one that I received in Soviet Union.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... that you received in the Soviet Union entail?

WITNESS:   In the Soviet Union I did guerilla warfare.  Now guerilla warfare is to hit and run and not be seen anywhere in the scene and I therefore trained on mobile warfare where you would be placing(?) yourselves with the ones - or fighting direct with the

MR MACADAM: /ones

MR MACADAM: 2B ones that you are - the people that you are fighting.  Now that training was similar to the one in Caprivi, because they were also taught the guerilla warfare and also taught the mobile warfare, to attack using major weapons, firearms and the minor firearms.  That's why I say the training was similar.

MR MACADAM: During the period of your recruitment where you were brought in to be the Political Commissar of the group and afterwards while you were at the camp where the training took place, was it ever stressed by either the persons who recruited you or by the instructors that the purpose of the training was firstly to protect the political leaders, secondly to protect the KwaZulu Government property from attack and thirdly to prevent political rallies from being disrupted?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR MACADAM: What stages was ... [break in recording]?

WITNESS:   I will say before the training commenced, we had already discussed how the training will progress and the form in which it will progress and the exact type of training that will be needed.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ...?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR MACADAM: No, who were the persons who were part of that discussion?

WITNESS:   It was M Z Khumalo, Silford Bhengu and Mncwango.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... these three concepts to be embodied in the training?

INTERPRETER: May you please repeat your question?

MR MACADAM: How were these three aspects to be embodied in the training?

INTERPRETER: He doesn't get your question quite clear.

MR MACADAM: I put to you earlier that a possible object

MR MACADAM: /of

MR MACADAM: 2B of the training was firstly the protection of political leaders;  the defence of KwaZulu Government property and the prevention of rallies being disrupted.  Now you agreed that that was discussed, you said prior to the training commenced.  Now I want to know how that filtered through the training that you received - that these persons received?

WITNESS:   I will say as there were some who were trained under defensive and the VIP group, their duty was to carry that ... (inaudible) ... and they were sent back to Ulundi where they carried that operation and these other groups came back and were under Khumalo and myself and it was up to us as to how we will deploy them.  I'm not too sure if I'm answering your question or it is clear?

MR MACADAM: It's clear.  If we could now move on to the aspect, once the training was completed, where did you go to?

WITNESS:  After the training, even before the training ended, I left Caprivi with Commander JJ and one other by the name of Swart, who was a senior to JJ.  We left Caprivi for Ulundi.  One reason why we went to Ulundi was to prepare the return of the group which trained in Caprivi, so they may be allocated in different and respective areas and what role will they play.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... after that?