Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-02

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, I knew, because Inkatha wanted me, and they had been seeking me for a very long time.  They wanted me to join so that I can be part of amabuto.  We were still young at the time so I knew that the attack on the homestead was actually aimed at myself.  I am the one who was targeted.  I had fled at the time.

MR SHANE: Now, regarding the killing of Stephen Radebe.  Is it correct that before the ANC was unbanned, and during the 1980's, this person Stephen Radebe was known to you?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, I knew him, but I didn't know him for the 80's.  I started knowing him from the 90's when we started getting involved in politics, following different organisations.  That's when I started to know him insofar as his membership or affiliation.  He's also one person with whom we played dice, and the grounds, we were playing soccer.  I knew what he was doing, or about what he was doing, for a long time.

MR SHANE: When you say you knew what he was doing, what do you mean?  What was he doing?  What are you referring to?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: First of all, he was a member of Inkatha.  Secondly, he was an inyanga of Inkatha, and an informer of Inkatha.  And he's one person who used to provide them with 'ntelesi' on their attacking sprees or going out to shoot a person.  Equally he was trusted, loyal to Inkatha in this, and what I can say, one thing that I still remember, something that happened, something that I witnessed, he cut somebody's private parts, a person who was alleged to be an Ikosa who had alighted from a taxi, and he cut his private parts after he was shot.  That is one thing that I witnessed him doing.  He also used to give them 'ntelezi' when they went out to attack Polla Park.

CHAIRPERSON: What is ntelezi?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Ntelezi is a medicine, a kind of medicine that one would use going out to attack, so that the targets should get drunk and not see what's happening, and to protect oneself against bullets in a war situation, and one would easily come back safe.

MR SHANE: Is it also correct that you, or they tried to, or including Stephen, tried to get you, force you to join the Inkatha Freedom Party?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Not myself alone.  He was not forcing us, but when we were playing soccer or dice at Madondo park, at Penduka, he used to convince us, and in our case it was not easy for us to defend the ANC or ANC/PAC.  We would keep quiet most of the time, and he used to involve Inkatha in his topics, saying how Inkatha can help people in whatever was happening, but then he was not compelling us, he was trying to influence us to attend meetings.

MR SHANE: Is it correct that the deceased ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Why do you think that the Inkatha Freedom Party was so interested in obtaining your membership?  Where would they have got the information that you would be an appropriate member?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: It was not only myself.  There is also the situation where any person who resided there, it was not only myself.  Any one boy who resided at Penduka was sometimes forced.  Some of them were sjambokked and beaten up with knobkerries, forced to attend meetings and mornings, and we would escape by way of staying indoors, and we would be beaten up.  The one thing that they wanted, was that we should defend Ngcala in case it is attacked.  That is Ngcala or Polla Park.  They wanted us to take the forefront in the defence of these two areas.  There is also many other amaZulu who had come from Natal, who were recruiting us.  Some of them came to us with promises that we should shoot, Inkatha, they would give us firearms.  And one other thing is that I stayed opposite the hostel gate, and therefore it was easy for us to, or easy for them to see whatever move we were making.

CHAIRPERSON: I appreciate your modesty, but it would appear that they took special interest in you.  You yourself associate the attack on your family home to their quest to acquire your membership.  Where would they have found out that you would be a prized member?  Who would have told them that?  That Mr Mabaso is a good person to get as a member.  Who do you think?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: I have no knowledge for now, but they got information from their informers to the effect that we have an AK, and that we were planning to defend the community against Inkatha, because Inkatha had already harassed people quite a lot, and we were working, or coming across dead bodies every day.  Young children were no longer scared of dead corpses or dead bodies.  Maybe they managed to get information to that effect, because I was active insofar as gathering money is concerned, to buy AK-47.

MR SIBANYONI: So when they attacked your family house, you were already a member of the MK?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Not exactly the MK.  I'm talking about SDU's.  I was a member of the SDU's.  I was a year old within the SDU and I was no longer residing at the homestead, I had moved, but my parents had remained behind.  And the parents, or should I say the boys in that area, most of them had left that area.

MR SHANE: Are you a Zulu?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes.

MR SHANE: That factor that you're a Zulu, that would have made you acceptable to the Inkatha Freedom Party because that was primarily at that time a Zulu organisation.

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, I would say it is an organisation of amaZulu, but then there are many people who are amaZulu who did not join the IFP.  They actually wanted us to join the IFP because we were boys and we were the youth.  They thought it would be easy for us to get hold of AK-47's to defend the IFP.  My being an umZulu insofar as the TRC is concerned, I would say we are divided into two.  We have amaZulu A and amaZulu B.  There are those who come from Natal who are referred to amaZulu A, and we from the township are referred to as amaZulu who are not in line with them.  There is a difference.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) the amaZulu B?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, insofar as this whole thing is concerned we are amaZulu B because we speak a different isiZulu.  It is different from that of a person who comes from Durban, Umlazi or Natal.

MR SHANE: Now, can you explain the circumstances which led to the killing, or the murder, of Stephen Radebe.

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: As I have already indicated that everyone knew that Stephen is involved somewhere.  Let me just confine myself to Stephen.  Everybody knew what Stephen was.  We were at, or in the office one evening having supper with others who patrolled.  Myself as in charge of, issued an order to the effect that he should be fetched, so that he could be questioned about his activities as to where he stands, because we were not sure of his stance.  We have different departments and we also had our own intelligence department which would take care of anything pertaining to intelligence.  I'm sorry, are we talking about Stephen or Beki?

MR SHANE: We're talking about Stephen Radebe.