Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

MS VAN DER WALT: I now call Mr Nico Prinsloo.

CHAIRPERSON: What are your full names?

MR PRINSLOO: Nicolas Marthinus Prinsloo.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you prefer to speak Afrikaans?

NICOLAS MARTHINUS PRINSLOO: (sworn states)

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Prinsloo, you were a member of the AWB during the elections of 1994, is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, it is.

MS VAN DER WALT: When did you join the AWB?

MR PRINSLOO: Early 1992.

MS VAN DER WALT: And during 1994, what rank did you have in the AWB?

MR PRINSLOO: Secretary General of the AWB.

MS VAN DER WALT: The Honourable Committee have at various times heard of the generals in staff, can you just tell the Committee if you were part of this?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I was.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you specific tasks within the generals and staff?

MR PRINSLOO: During the political actions where Mr Terreblanche held speeches throughout the country, I was closely involved in the arrangements of these meetings as well as administrative tasks at head office in Ventersdorp.

MS VAN DER WALT: Can I put it to you like this, were you then the secretary of the generals in staff?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: At the end of 1993 and beginning 1994, were you involved with the AWB's head office in Ventersdorp?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What was your position there?

MR PRINSLOO: My tasks at the head office were to be head of the administrative services, I would also be the liaison officer between the generals in staff and Eugene Terreblanche.  I did the liaison with the media and the public and that included the South African Police Services and the South African Defence Force, as well as political organisations across the world.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: Evidence was led in the application, that Mr Prinsloo gave instructions to the applicants in what happened there during that period.  Can you tell us, are you that Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I am.

CHAIRPERSON: Well tell us then what happened concerning those instructions.

MS VAN DER WALT: With respect, we will have to go back before the instructions to the applicants and that is to where Mr Prinsloo received his instructions from.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue please.

MS VAN DER WALT: Thank you.
	I would like to take you, if you will allow me, you now explained what your position was and what your task were as a member of the generals in staff.  You attended various meetings with Mr Eugene Terreblanche, is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, it is.

MS VAN DER WALT: And with the generals in staff, did you also attend meetings?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I attended all meetings.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was a meeting in the second half of 1993, on a farm in Ottosdal, do you know about this meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, I do know about it.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was it an open or closed meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: It was a closed meeting.

MS VAN DER WALT: Where only the generals in staff were?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What happened at this meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson, it was discussed in general amongst the generals and visiting Special Forces of the South African Police, of the Defence Force, Medical Corpse, Air Force members, and who addressed this meeting.  The people were brought in to convey certain information to us regarding secession as well as the announcement of an area which would be the Volkstaat.

MS VAN DER WALT: If you talk about secession, what do you mean?

MR PRINSLOO: During that period or in that time certain towns in the country were given to the right-wing or gave the peace to the right-wing ...[intervention]

MR MALAN: In other words, they got the freedom of the town?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.  Most of these towns were in the Western Transvaal.  There were towns, amongst others, in the Free State as well as two in Natal as well as the current Mpumalanga.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we limit the evidence of this witness concerning the applicants?

MS VAN DER WALT: I think the applicant's evidence is concerned with all of these aspects and the reason why they went to the Western Transvaal.  I think it can now be placed in perspective with the people who were involved in it.

CHAIRPERSON: But they said themselves why they went to the Western Transvaal, but they also testified that they received instructions from a Mr Prinsloo.

MS VAN DER WALT: I will try and limit but you must allow me to highlight certain aspects because at the end of the day I would like to present the best for the applicants in front of this Committee.
	A map was drawn up, and it was shown in the video, do you have any knowledge of this map?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who drew up this map?

MR PRINSLOO: I personally did it with the help of other administrative personnel in Ventersdorp.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you also carry knowledge of a meeting or an order group meeting that was held in a bus in 1994 at ...[indistinct] Spruit Dam?

MR PRINSLOO: That's is correct, the discussion of this map, or we discussed the map there, the borders were drawn up and these borders with the information contained in it came from military information as well as SAP special information.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms van der Walt, we accept that they were called to the Western Transvaal, all of us.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why is that clear enough, is it clear why they went there?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, to go and fight in the war.

MS VAN DER WALT: Then I accept it.
	I would like to take you to a meeting at Fyndooringtjies.  Where exactly is this place?

MR PRINSLOO: It is a nature reserve outside Ventersdorp.

MS VAN DER WALT: And who was present there?

MR PRINSLOO: It was the generals in staff.

MS VAN DER WALT: And when was this meeting held?

MR PRINSLOO: It was approximately the Saturday, approximately a week before we all went to the game farm.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were any instructions given to you at that specific meeting, and if so, by whom?

MR PRINSLOO: Specific instructions were given, everybody at that stage knew what their tasks were.  Amongst others I was divided into a combat general and every general had his own area.  My area was North East of Ventersdorp which includes Rustenberg, I was on the border of the PWV area.  The Ystergarde was under my command.  I received these instructions from the generals in staff, specifically General Dirk Ackerman.

MS VAN DER WALT: What instruction did you receive?

MR PRINSLOO: The instruction was to identify a Spes person, give him the instructions to assemble a bomb,  more specifically a motor or a car bomb that they must take or send to the Johannesburg area.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was there a specific time that was given to you when this bomb must be detonated?

MR PRINSLOO: This bomb had to be detonated on the Sunday.

MS VAN DER WALT: Which Sunday are you talking about?

MR PRINSLOO: That is a week after.

MS VAN DER WALT: Is that then the Sunday before the elections?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes, why did it have to go to Johannesburg?

MR PRINSLOO: It specifically had to go there because it was the largest area of people who would support the government, ANC supporters, and it was a well-known international city.

MS VAN DER WALT: At that meeting, that is the week before when you received these instructions, did they tell you which targets you had to choose?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, we had to choose soft targets.  I'd like to rectify something or clarify something.  A perception was created, if it was purposefully or not, that it would purely be a racist attack and it would only be targeted, or the black people would only be targeted.  It was not the case, it was directed against SACP/ANC supporters.  We made a conclusion that the larger support group of the ANC or SACP alliance at that stage was black people.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you choose that target, what was the purpose in that?