Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-17

CHAIRPERSON: Please, we are about to adjourn.  May we be seated and let there be order in the hall.  This disturbs us.  We have just found out that amongst the children that were injured in this incident that Chief Molefe has just related it's that the parents of those children are present here, and we will request the parents of the children who were injured in this incident to stand up so we may see them.  The parents of the children that were injured in this incident the chief has just related.  You may be seated.  We realise that you are hurt inside, and we await the time when your wounds will be healed.  And we know that as the chief was relating you were taken back in time when all this happened, and also we'd like to thank you now for coming here, knowing very well that your story is part and parcel of what the chief has related, and you were still brave enough to be here and listen to the chief, and also give the chief the moral support which he needed the most as he rendered his testimony.  We do believe that the Lord will be by your side and the wounds will be healed in no time, and we trust that even you will be able - or will plan to meet the counsellors, the Truth Commission counsellors that we'll also leave here in Vryheid.  We do believe that you will be helped by getting in touch with them, and God will bless you.
Before we adjourn for lunch we have a few announcements here.  On the 12th May, next month - we refer to next month - in Mondlo location we will be having statement-takers who will be taking statements.  We do request you that you send the word around so that people may prepare to go to Mondlo at 10.00 am to submit their statements.  On the following day, on the 13th of May, the statements will be taken in Vryheid at the same time, that is 10.00 am.  On the 12th it will be at Mondlo, and on the 13th May it will be here in Vryheid at 10.00 am.  Now, the venues, the locations rather where the statements will be taken, will be announced in due time through the Radio Zulu.  Now, please pay attention to every detail from Radio Zulu so you may know when and where especially the statements will be taken.  We do request that you send the word around and people get to know about this, even those who did attend, because we need to hear your views and your versions of the story.
We will adjourn for lunch now.  It is 1 o'clock.  We'll just have a short adjournment for lunch because our day - we are running behind time.  We will be back here at half past one and continue with the programme of the day.  Thank you.
LUNCH ADJOURNMENT
ON RESUMPTION
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: (Incomplete) ... to each and every one of you.  We'll carry on with our programme.  We will be listening to Albert Mhande Nsibande.  He is already seated on the witness stand.  Good afternoon.  You are here to relate about the murder and the shooting of Mr Mcetywa and yourself.  We will ask you to stand up to take the oath.

ALBERT MHANDE NSIBANDE: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: The Commissioner who will lead you will be Mr Mdu Dlamini.

MR DLAMINI: Good afternoon, Albert.

WITNESS:   Good afternoon to you.

MR DLAMINI: How are you feeling, how are you faring?  Are you okay?

WITNESS:   I am not fine.

MR DLAMINI: You have already given us the names of the children, Ndisi Mkwanazi.  How old is Ndisi?  Just a rough estimation.  How old is Ndisi?

WITNESS:   Four to six years, just a rough estimation.

MR DLAMINI: Don't you worry.  I know men always have problems in knowing the ages of the children.  Thanks for that estimation.  What about Lindiwe Ngcube, her estimation?

WITNESS:   I think Lindiwe is six, around the same age.

MR DLAMINI: What about Sepelele Ngcube?

WITNESS:   Sepelele is seven years old.

MR DLAMINI: And Siyabonga?  (Pause)  I know men are like that.  Don't you worry, I know that.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: About the parents, do you still have your parents?

WITNESS:   I have one left and it's my mother.

MR DLAMINI: How is your mother, how is she faring?

WITNESS:   Well, she is struggling.  She is not fairly well because she was injured on her leg.

MR DLAMINI: What about your father, is he late?

WITNESS:   Yes, he is deceased.

MR DLAMINI: Was he sick or he died from an attack or violence?

WITNESS:   No, he was sick and died.

MR DLAMINI: Are you married?

WITNESS:   No.

MR DLAMINI: What about the children, do they live with you or with their mother?

WITNESS:   I gave two to my sister, and the other two are with the mother.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Nsibande, the story you are going to relate to the Commission is the incident that took place when you were going to - while awaiting the funeral of Mcetywa, who was the leader, and - the leader of ANC in Pongola.  Mrs Mcetywa has already given us a clear picture with regard to the structure of ANC and its beginning in your area, and the duties and work of Mr Mcetywa up to the time when he was killed.  I will therefore ask you - I know you would have loved to give us the whole story, but give us an abridged version, and start from November 1993 when you were at a night vigil when you were injured.

WITNESS:   On that day when we had the night vigil, a night before the funeral of Comrade Mcetywa, during the day of that day I was sitting under the tree alone watching, waiting for the right time to go to the night vigil.  A car passed by, a three-litre Ford Sierra passed by, and I saw the people who were inside the car, as to who they were.

MR DLAMINI: The people you saw are the ones you have in your statement, Police Nyuni Nyango and Police Maseka, and Gribond, who is a police?  Gribond, is this a nickname or the real name?

WITNESS:   No, we used to call him Gribond.  I think that's his real name.  I don't know his surname, but that's the name.

MR DLAMINI: Would you be able to find out the surname after some time?

WITNESS:   Yes, because the girlfriend is somewhere nearby in the neighbourhood.

MR DLAMINI: We will ask you to kindly find out the surname.  We'll probably get back in touch with you telephonically.   The registration of this car, what was it?

WITNESS:   If I am not mistaken it's ... (incomplete)

INTERPRETER: The interpreter could not catch that.  The interpreter is asking for the witness to be audible.

WITNESS:  NO 1336, that was the car registration used by the ZP.  1336 car registration used by the ZP.

MR DLAMINI: Yes, I did interpose right there.  Now, you saw that car and the people in the car.  Now carry on.

WITNESS:   After that I went back home and took a shower and prepared myself to go.  And I left, I met with other colleagues, and we went to Comrade Mcetywa's place.  I think it was about half past eight when I said to one boy, "Hey, boy, let's get outside and just sit out there and chill and smoke."  Yes, we did smoke, and it was beginning to be dark, and we saw the very same car.  It came by still, coming to A section, and it take a U-turn under the light and I said to the boy, to Mfana, "We are not safe outside here.  Maybe we have to get right inside the yard for protection."  Indeed we crossed the street and went inside the premises, the yard.  As we were approaching the house we heard that sound.

INTERPRETER: The interpreter could not get that.

MR DLAMINI: The interpreter could not get that.  Please clarify what that is.