Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-12

DR RANDERA: And you have mentioned twice now that when you were taken to Leratong Hospital and also at Garden City Clinic, there was this concern that if the police found out
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that you were in the respective hospitals, they would come and get you.  Why was that?

DAVID SMITH: I was concerned about this because I knew that my wife would not be able to come and say to me.  After I left he was confronted and asked where I was and he then told me that this had nothing to do with them.  I knew for certain there were many incidents where I know about people who went missing and nothing came of that.  I was worried about this.

DR RANDERA: Now you mention this person called Jones, that is because ...

DAVID SMITH: Yes, Jones.

DR RANDERA: ... when you were in Mr Collins' house people came and said Jones has been shot.  Was he killed.

DR RANDERA: Yes, that is the person that was killed.  It is Carno.  His real name was Jones, but he was referred to as Carno.

DR RANDERA: The same person as, okay, sorry.  When you went out of the house, you and your friends, were you carrying anything, any weapons?

DAVID SMITH: Nothing whatsoever.

DR RANDERA: Was there any warning before the shots, before you were shot?

DAVID SMITH: No, there was no warning.

DR RANDERA: And you were shot with birdshot?

DAVID SMITH: Yes, with birdshot and rubber bullets.  I have a cut on my arm and, as the doctors told me, my entire hand and arm was blue which would have been from the rubber bullets which would have caused that or which might have caused that, but through my chest and my lungs and in my face, I was shot with birdshot.  There is a proof that not only one person shot at me, but more than one person.
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DR RANDERA: So the birdshot actually went into your lungs?  Is that why you spent all those days in intensive care unit?

DAVID SMITH: That is the case.

DR RANDERA: Okay.  Now, you talk about the problem with your vision.  Did you wear glasses before the shooting or is it only after the shooting that you started wearing glasses?

DAVID SMITH: No, I did have glasses beforehand.  We all had to have glasses.  So I did wear glasses.

DR RANDERA: Okay.  David, do you just want to tell us briefly about this young man, Carno, who was also shot and killed on that day?  From what you heard because you were not there yourself.

DAVID SMITH: The only words which I heard was as I left the yard, people were shouting that he was shot.  At that moment, like any other person would, I went to go and see what had happened, but I never actually got around to seeing because I am not really able to say anything.  This is what worries me.  As far as I know it would appear that nothing had come of that case.  His mother has since died, his father had already died, he himself is dead and nothing had come of this entire incident.

DR RANDERA: My last question, David, is how long did the rioting continue in Toekomsrus?  You were in hospital, but I am sure other people must have told you.

DAVID SMITH: My wife did visit me that Friday.  On the Saturday she told me that the unrest was continuing, that there were still some problems because of the curfew which had been put in place.  When I left the next week or came out of hospital the next week after 11 days, on the following Saturday, things had calmed down and that was the day on which Carno was buried.
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DR RANDERA: David, my last point.  I see from your statement and I want to actually read it.  You say after the incident I developed hatred towards the people.  Now, it is the police you are referring to.  Your friend or sorry, the other gentlemen said it was soldiers.  Are we talking about soldiers or police here?

DAVID SMITH: I would say we are speaking of both because there was a whole bunch of them and there were Caspers and also South African Police.  Some had the blue uniforms, some had camouflage uniforms.

DR RANDERA: Who shot you?

DAVID SMITH: I think it was not from the Casper which they shot.  They shot also from the large vans.  As I approached them I saw a van immediately in front of me and I was shot right from the front.  So if I am right, I must have been shot from this police van.

DR RANDERA: Alright.  Okay, just to quote again.  After the incident I developed a hatred towards the police.  Now I am beginning to reconcile with them.  Can you just tell us a little bit about that?  Both the hatred and why you are beginning to reconcile?

DAVID SMITH: With regard to the hatred, if I though what position I had or could have had as a working person today at the place where I worked.  I already had a senior position.  I lost my job.  One of my children had to go to university the next year, but I was not able to do this.  He could not go to university.  My wife and my children suffered in consequence for 17 months.  I had no income whatsoever.  A young man of 37 years at that time being bordered because I was not able to continue with my work.  This caused me to feel deep hatred because I knew that these KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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policemen to whom I did nothing, I had great respect for them, because I knew that they were supposed to maintain law and order, but rather they showed that they could do as they pleased.  This cause great hatred in me.  Today I have friends who serve in the police, but even them could tell what I said then and that I told them then that I hate them because of what they did to me and my family.  Today this young son, for whom I had such great hopes, simply works at a normal place and I believe that he could have achieved more by today if it had not been for that incident.  I could have had a very good position myself.  The pain which I still experience, in many applications for work which I have had, when they hear that I have been bordered in that very industry, where for 20 years I had worked, and that then everything fell apart because of this incident.  This is what caused me to feel great hatred, deep hatred, but with the passage of time as my wounds healed I came to say as the Lord himself says, if I could forgive why not others.  It then came to me that I decided that I would forget what had happened and that I would attempt to patch together a better life.

DR RANDERA: Thank you David.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Smith, I just want to ask you a few questions.  The witness before you talked about the fact that the community was protesting about the increase in rents, but I notice in your statement which you actually say that the riots were caused by the Council turning off the electricity in a number of houses.  Could you tell us a little bit more about that please?

DAVID SMITH: As far as I could hear on that same day as the
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incident.  When the Caspers came into the township they did so to protect the people from the electrical services because they were coming to switch off the lights and the electricity and that is what caused the problems.  The people did not want to allow them to switch off the electricity and the lights since everything had already happened exactly because of the high rent and the high electrical and water tariffs.  This would have increased the conflict.  After the shooting, of course, things went out of hand.  Everything was the consequence of the water and lights and the rent boycott.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mention that you were bordered after this.  Did you bring any civil action against the police or the Defence Force for what had happened?

DAVID SMITH: No, I did not.  As I have already said, I was frightened since I knew what would happen.  I did not want to get anywhere close to them.  I was extremely scared.

YASMINE SOOKA: How are you able to support yourself now?