Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: ... others to come to my place because we could see that the other attempts of the ministers, as much as they did, but they were not succeeding.  Mr Nqowi, Mr Fazi, Mr Malgazi, Mkozeli Jack and others came to my place.  They managed to come to my place and we talked at my place.
 For the first time attempts that was being made, peace prevailed because immediately they left and went to their constituencies to preach about peace and (indistinct) was the only newspaper that reported this at the time.
 However, our attempts didn't end there because the Archbishop himself, I once requested the National Executive of AZAPO to appeal to the Archbishop and ask him to come down here.  But I am very sorry that the National Executive issued a statement in the Herald in which they didn't take my advice.  I am trying here to show our attempts at creating peace.  
 The steps that I took to create peace.  I was never a member of AZAPO and I am not a member of AZAPO.

BONGANI FINCA: Sorry people, please, please let's be tolerant, let's be patient.

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: For quite some time we tried to explain this but the newspapers always jumped into that conclusion and give me that position, because when they came  they would ask me about AZAPO, but is became very clear  at the first inquest of Mr Goniwe when Imran Moosa the AZAPO attorney, he was also a member of AZAPO, he explained very clearly that although there were AZAPO members, they got accommodation at my place.  He explained to people that Reverend Maqina was not a member of AZAPO.
 I don't know what other proof I should bring to show that I wasn't a member of AZAPO.  Coming now to allegations or accusations of Mrs Xunta, who was organising the rally, who is said to have been organising the rally, asking if the evil deeds which I have perpetrated were forgotten, but he didn't mention this and he reported that AZAPO was looking for him three times or four times.
 Mr Xunta didn't tell the Truth Commission that the reason for AZAPO to look for him at that time was that he had some groups which went to stop at Getje's house and Molelo Getje at the time was a member of AZAPo.  He still is, I think he is in Johannesburg up to today.
 They wanted him, it is his home and he was not there, he was hiding at my place.  When they didn't find him at home, they took his grandmother and burnt her feet.  The grandmother to whom Molelo Getje had spoken.
 That was the reason that Xunta, we call him Notu, he is known as Notu, that is why AZAPO is looking for him.  This accusation and this smear campaign against, didn't only start yesterday, it started way back in 1985 when UDF couldn't defeat AZAPO.  UDF had some regiments, some groups fight who had been used to fight very fearsome groups at the time.

BONGANI FINCA: Excuse me just for a moment, I just want to make a plea, maybe I don't have the system, but I am talking now about myself, maybe it would upset me if it could appear here now that he and Dr Boraine are gone, order has also gone with them.  I am not going to expand more on that.  Let's give reverend Maqina an opportunity to speak, whether we agree with him or we don't, let's give him the opportunity.
 We talk a lot, we will react when he mentions things that we do not agree with, I want to make that clear that we should give him a chance and be tolerant.  Okay, you can go on.

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Very briefly and quickly Chairperson.  The smear campaign because there were problems with defeating AZAPO, they even went to the extent of saying there is Maqina in a helicopter, at that time I am at home.
 There he is, he is in a hippo.  I've never been into a hippo, it was only Xosilo who used it when he was going to my place.  I remember one of the freedom fighters at Walmer, well-known freedom fighters from the Black Consciousness Movement, got the same problem.  Moqitweqisan, we were surprised and shocked, the other day he came to my place and said, hey, it is alleged that I was in a hippo and he even decided to leave for the Transkei.
 I am trying to say that there was a smear campaign against some of us and reports were that Maqina and AZAPO had killed Qodolezi and this would spread, but fortunately today those people are coming out and no one is asking for forgiveness.  It would be alleged that if AZAPO had killed Goniwa, but Mr Bam who explained it at the first inquest that Mzwandile Maqina is not involved in this. 
 He said this at court, but still this smear campaign continues, but no one came forward to say no, we are sorry, you are just being, it is just a smear campaign against you.  I don't remember hippo's protecting me next to my house.
 Chairperson, AZAPO never wished that there should be an intensity of conflict between itself and UDF.  If that was their wish, we would stay at Masangwana, there are families that are well-known members of the UDF, they are now ANC members, those families were never touched and yet that AZAPO was predominantly in that area, which was said to be their area.
 All those show that us, people at Masangwana, young or adult, they were never asked to get up to protect us because UDF was attacking.  As it was happening in other places and this was the witness of the UDF strategy because they would wake people up and say let's go and fight.
 People who didn't know how they were going to fight and now when they can't defeat AZAPO, in these rallies they would accuse AZAPO of any things that they had not done and they would smear them and then they would say it is because maybe these police are watching them.
 Chairperson, AZAPO and Africanism and members of liberation movement, they are not members of homeland structures or structures that were created by apartheid.
 It is unfortunate, it is very unfortunate that at that time when there was conflict between the structures then there would develop this conflict.  Now there is a mix up, a misleading, there are allegations that are misleading.  People should say that AZAPO is helping police against UDF and it was not recognised that AZAPO had no intention of standing in the way of UDF programmes.
 But they wanted to defend themselves because they were being attacked.  How this started, I do not know.
 I am concluding now, Chairperson when I say it is becoming clear now when these stories are being investigated that there was something odd, there was something very odd about what was happening to the extent, to regard to the extent the Boers were using people.  I don't say AZAPO wouldn't retaliate, but it is clear that the Boers got the opportunity to fan, to help fan the conflict so that they could disrupt the struggle for liberation, but I am glad that after peace was cemented on the 1st of January this conflict came to an end.
 I tried every, I tried as much as possible to show you that it was unfortunate that I found myself between the two factions.  However, for us to be portrayed as murderers who were looking for people around to burn, there was conflict between two organisations, but we were friends with the members of the UDF like Aqweni, there was no ill-wind between us.
 But I am sure that even the UDF leadership were very sorry about this conflict which was there between two organisations.  Thank you Chairperson.