Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you would have liked to use the dark to plant or detonate your bomb rather than in daylight?

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: But weren't there other taxi ranks in Pretoria where black people would use taxis?

J P NEL: That is why when we left there we made the registration plates and the night we drove I drove in the direction of DF Malan towards Pretoria North the station there because I knew there was a taxi rank there.

MR PRIOR: Why didn't you go back to the same rank?

J P NEL: We were there.

MR PRIOR: But now you found a drinking spot, Sanny's Cafe?

J P NEL: I did testify that we did return. We did go and have a look and the policing was still strong there and we accepted that we could be arrested then. And from there we left and we would have gone to the next taxi rank and at the end of the day this building we identified it and I thought it would have the same effect.

CHAIRPERSON: What was your instruction when you left there with the pipe bombs? What was the target?

J P NEL: We were told a taxi rank.

CHAIRPERSON: Who decided to throw the bomb somewhere else?

J P NEL: Chairperson we identified that building ourselves after we drove.

CHAIRPERSON: Who in the car did this?

J P NEL: Please repeat?

CHAIRPERSON: Who in the car made that decision?

J P NEL: We decided it together, the three of us who were together in the vehicle.

CHAIRPERSON: And that was one of the opportunities where you could have used your own discretion?

J P NEL: Because we did not place it that morning at the taxi rank because of the strong presence of the police I thought that if they were at one rank they could also be at another rank. So we went from the one to the other and then we identified the place and we placed the bomb there.

CHAIRPERSON: How far away from the taxi rank did you throw this bomb?

J P NEL: I would say about three or four kilometres.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: I do not understand the reason why you did not immediately drive back to the game farm and that you rather went to a resort up until three in the morning where you sang Boer songs or folk songs. Why didn't you immediately go back and report back to your commander?

J P NEL: I cannot really say.

MR PRIOR: Sir please you are a soldier. You were busy with a war. You go to Hartebeesfontein and you visit there and you sang songs. Did somebody have a guitar there?

J P NEL: Yes Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: And you are saying there was no liquor involved?

J P NEL: Yes Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Till three 'o clock in the morning you sang and you didn't drink a drop of liquor?

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Did you have a braai?

J P NEL: No Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Nothing to eat? Anything?

J P NEL: Nothing.

MR PRIOR: Did you drink soda?

J P NEL: No.

MR PRIOR: Not even coffee?

J P NEL: Nothing.

MR PRIOR: Well you surprise me. And you cannot give us a reason why you did it?

J P NEL: The only reason I can give is that, that morning I told you I will go around there.

MR PRIOR: And you felt obligated to go and see these two friends of yours and to go and visit there because you told them you would?

J P NEL: Yes Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: And what about the Ystergarde and your obligations towards the other men at the game farm?

J P NEL: This resort if on the way back to the game farm.

MR PRIOR: Did you realise that there was a security risk with regards to your mission?

J P NEL: I do not know what they thought?

MR PRIOR: So in other words you placed your men in danger. The longer you stayed away the bigger the chance was that you will be arrested?

J P NEL: Yes Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Did you realise it?

J P NEL: Not at that stage.

MR PRIOR: Did you ask for permission to go and see your wife?

J P NEL: We asked if we can go and see the wives?

MR PRIOR: Did you ask?

J P NEL: I was together with the group who asked.

MR PRIOR: When was this?

J P NEL: It was the 26th, the Tuesday.

MR PRIOR: When did you go to the game farm? You said in your application on the 14th of April you received the call-instruction.

J P NEL: That is correct Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Did you leave immediately?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Did you sell your house?

J P NEL: No.

MR PRIOR: Where were you living at that stage?

J P NEL: I was staying in Pretoria and my wife and my children - it was just on my child's birthday she refused to go with.

MR PRIOR: So she stayed behind?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Was this house in your own name or did you rent this house?

J P NEL: We rented the house.

MR PRIOR: And your job - where did you work?

J P NEL: I worked at Transnet as a train driver.

MR PRIOR: Did you resign?

J P NEL: No Chairperson I put in leave.

MR PRIOR: You put in leave?

J P NEL: I had leave. I was on leave.

MR PRIOR: Up until when?

J P NEL: I was on leave till late in April. I was on sick leave because I had my leg in a cast.

MR PRIOR: So after your leave you would have returned to your job if you could. Was that your intention?

J P NEL: Please repeat?

MR PRIOR: You would have returned to work after your sick leave.

J P NEL: If there weren't any call-up instructions yes.

MR PRIOR: Why do you think you were going to Ventersdorp?

J P NEL: Major Smit contacted me on the 14th of April and he said now it is time for war. It is now the time we must put everything together we are going to Ventersdorp and we are going to protect our Volkstaat and we are going to wage a war about which we have been told in several meetings.

MR PRIOR: Did you think the Volkstaat was going to be founded?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: So if it happened like that would you have stayed there?

J P NEL: Yes I would have stayed there.

MR PRIOR: And what about your job?

J P NEL: We were told that those who went there for the protection of the Volkstaat that we would be part of the protection of the Volkstaat and you would work for the government of the Volkstaat in a police capacity.

MR PRIOR: What about the Transnet job?

J P NEL: I would have resigned.

MR PRIOR: If you thought you were going to live in the Volkstaat why did you not resign before you left?

J P NEL: But at that stage I was still on sick leave. I wasn't close to my job. I got call-up instruction and I went.

MR PRIOR: But the instruction was to go and fight a war?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And the war did you think it would be at an end at the end of April?

J P NEL: With the run-up to all these events you cannot say when a war would stop.

MR PRIOR: Exactly that is my point. So you had enough warnings at the 14th of April you had enough time you could have told your employer look I am resigning.

J P NEL: If there is a war and at the end of the day if everything succeeded then I wondered if there would still be a Transnet station.

MR PRIOR: Did you think about that on the 14th of April?

J P NEL: I believed it was war.

MR PRIOR: And what about your wife and children? Would you have left them in Pretoria at the rented house?

J P NEL: She didn't want to go with me at all and I contacted her and if I can call my father he will also testify that I phoned them that they must go and fetch my wife and children because they didn't want to come with me.

MR PRIOR: And your leg was in cast? Could you run?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: With the cast?

J P NEL: Yes.

MR PRIOR: So did it get better?

J P NEL: It was in plaster my leg.

MR PRIOR: Did it get better? Could you run with this leg?

J P NEL: Ja I run races with my leg in plaster.

MR PRIOR: So it didn't bother you? It didn't hold you back?

J P NEL: No Chairperson.

MR PRIOR: Now after this planting of bomb you ask for permission to go and see your wife.

J P NEL: I was with the group who asked to go and visit the wives.

MR PRIOR: Why?

J P NEL: Because we were together in a group there.