Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-17

MR SIBEKO: The part of the accident?

CHAIRPERSON: The mistake, yes.

MR SIBEKO: Yes, I request that it be withdrawn.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, then we leave the evidence.

MR SIBEKO: Yes.  From your evidence it transpires that you were in unlawful possession of two AK47's, that is the one that you took from Elijah and the other one that you took from Sipho, is that correct?

MR NHLAPO: Yes, that is correct.

MR SIBEKO: Do you also request that the two unlawful acts be also included as part of the applications that you are applying for for amnesty?

MR NHLAPO: Yes.

MR SIBEKO: Now sir, if you were to meet the survivors of Mr Nqobo and Reginald, would you happily cease the opportunity to make peace with the family and ask for their, in fact tell them how you feel as a result of your conduct?

MR NHLAPO: Yes.  I would like, I would appreciate that.  The death of Mr Nqobo is not my intention, but because of the situation prevailing at the time in the Katlehong community, I would request to be given that opportunity to ask for forgiveness.

MR SIBEKO: Thank you Mr Chairman, I've got no further questions for the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP

ADV GCABASHE: Mr Nhlapo, there are just two areas that I would like you to assist me on.  The first one is when you went to look for Mr Nqobo and he wasn't there, he was at work,  you then reported and what I had thought you said was you reported to the Commander, you hadn't found him.
	From what you said later, it would appear that you were still telling his sons that they should tell him that you had been there, when you saw him arrive.  Just clarify that for me, I was not too sure as to what exactly happened.  When did you see him arrive, where were you, what were you doing when you saw him come home from work?

MR NHLAPO: I left the meeting as I was told to go and check if he was there in his house.  I went to his house, I found his son sitting in the kitchen.  I asked them if their father was around, they said he was still at work at that time.
	I went back to the meeting, same meeting where the Commanders were.  I told them that Mr Nqobo was still at work, and I left the meeting and I saw him coming, walking on the play ground, he was on his way to his house.
	I went back to the Commanders again, and I told them.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, that helps me.  When you left the meeting, at that point, where were you going to?  Were you no longer part of this meeting?

MR NHLAPO: The meeting was only for the Commanders, I was not part of the meeting, because I was not a Commander.

ADV GCABASHE: The instruction you were given by your Commander was that you should go and fetch ...(indistinct) Nqobo and bring him back to the meeting?  I can't quite relate that instruction with the fact of the killing.
	What made you think that you had the authority to kill Mr Nqobo, having been given specific instructions to bring him back so that he could give an explanation about himself and his political affiliation?

MR NHLAPO: The authority to kill him, did not come from me, but that was said at the meeting because they were discussing the people who were among the Radebe community who were IFP members, which the Radebe community was ANC.  Those people who were not ANC members, were the people were the people who were supposed to come to the meeting and explain the position regarding to the community.
	They were supposed to say whether they are willing to work with the community or they were still working for the IFP.  I was told to bring him with and if he refuses, I was told to kill him.  That is what I did.  I did as I was told.

ADV GCABASHE: So you are saying when you originally left to go to ...(indistinct) Nqobo's house, you had one, an instruction to bring him back, and if he resisted, you were specifically told you should kill him, is this what you are saying?

MR NHLAPO: Yes, that is correct.  I was told to bring him to the meeting, but if he refuses to do so, I was to shoot him, I was told to kill him.  That is what I did.

ADV GCABASHE: After having shot at the house, when in fact it was the son, Reginald, who was injured, not Mr Nqobo, you left, you were under the impression that Mr Nqobo had been shot?  You left to go to where you normally base.  Were your Commanders at that base?

MR NHLAPO: No, the Commanders were not there at my base.  After shooting at the door, I took the firearm back to Elijah, the one who had given me the firearm.  From Elijah's place, I went to my base.

ADV GCABASHE: I am trying to again, work out the authority you had, or the reason, that you went back to Mr Nqobo's house to kill him, without talking to a Commander or without talking to anybody at all about what you were about to do.
	Just take me through that again, and tell me where you would then have had that authority from?

MR NHLAPO: The authority to kill Mr Nqobo was already given to me from the beginning when I was told to go and check him at his house, I was told to bring him to the meeting and if he refuses to do so, I was told to shoot him and kill him.
	That is what I did.  That is why I did not go back to the Commander to tell him, because the mission was accomplished.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you are excused.

MR NHLAPO: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED