Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-25

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Koki, thank you for your story. It is a harrowing tale that you told us.  May we ask a number of questions, just to clarify and then we will be able to let you go.
 If we go back right to the beginning. You said that you were a member of the ANC.  It seems to me that you were very prominent, in a leadership position in the women's league in KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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the ANC. Is that correct?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Yes, that is true.

PROF MEIRING: Now just - I have made a number of notes.  You said that you were initially arrested because of your help in the swuatter camp. I didn't hear very well, were you building a house for yourself or for somebody else?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: I have my own house, but because people were suffering, and seeing that one yard was occupied by twelve shacks with one toilet, I realised that that open area was useless, and I realised that I have to leave my house and go and help these people who are homeless.  That is why I went to help.

PROF MEIRING: I imagine that when the policeman came and he hit you with the gun, there was quite a scuffle and that was the reason why you were injured.  Your teeth were broken loose, but did you refuse arrest or were you only trying to protect yourself?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: I was trying to defend myself.  This is a very heavily built man, hitting me with the butt of the gun on the chest. I am a woman and he is a man.  Even our fight was useless, because I was telling him you are killing me, Sir, you are just killing me.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  And if we turn a few pages and we come to the moment when your son was arrested for allegedly killing this Inkatha man, is there a strong Inkatha presence in the township?  Was there tension between the ANC and Inkatha?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Our ANC group was very strong. Inkatha members were about ten.  Yes, our group was very strong. It was a fight between the ANC and the Inkatha.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  There is another thing I want to
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clarify.  After you left prison, after you left the cells, you went back to your home, and then the house was bombed, as you told us.  Why did they bomb the house? Was that to intimidate you or to scare you?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: I was also shocked as to why was my house bombed, because my son was not even present at home. In other words, these people were killing me.  Because their suspect was now in jail. I was told to pay the R1 000,00 bail. I paid it and they brought it back.  In other words, they were targeting me.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  Then a last question from my side before I hand you over to my colleages.  Did I hear correctly that your son was probably killed because he wanted to go and vote, that it was because he left the house in order to go and vote that he was killed?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Can you please repeat your question?

PROF MEIRING: If I heard correctly, you said that your son wanted the magistrate, the person in the office to allow him to go out from his house arrest position to go and vote, and it was not allowed?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: They didn't give him an answer, not even the magistrate. He requested them to send him a person so that he can vote at home, but no answer was given.

PROF MEIRING: Did he leave the house in any way, to vote?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: That is correct.

PROF MEIRING: And then he was killed?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: He was shot.  If he had been given an answer I would have been satisfied.  Thomas was a hero.  He was a future leader.  The Schweizer-Reneke community was proud
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of my son.  Everything that he was doing, he was doing it in the name of freedom, but this was shattered in a minute.

PROF MEIRING: Those are the questions that I wanted to ask.  But I am sure that my colleagues would like to add a question or two from their own side.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mrs Koki, how did it come about that the ANC left you?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Just after the death of my son the ANC turned its back against me.  They withdrew themselves from my family, the family they used to visit.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Was your son the leader of the youth or was he a member of the ANC Youth League?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: He was a member of COSAS.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When he was arrested, was he alone or was he together with other members of COSAS?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: I sent him to the police station as to enquire why did they want him.  Instead of giving him information they arrested him.  Two days thereafter they took Boyes and Sipuma and afterwards many of them were arrested. I think about eight of them.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My question is: after his death, what did his friends say?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Two of them who used to be in his company are still paying me visits, but the rest of them are gone. I am just stinking, they don't want to come close to me at all.  They will never bring him back.  I am not saying they are responsible, but where is the love, where is that love, the first love.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I understand ma'am, it is very painful.  Were there no conflicts between COSAS members? In those years we
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used to know that or we used to hear about informers or spies.  Didn't you come across such a situation maybe?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Not at all, no, not at all, and I have never heard anything about informers and spies.  And on the very same day of his killing we were friends.  But the last day I am telling you, it was still clear, and he wasn't maybe perceived as a sell-out or anything.

THOMAS MANTHATA: This Richard Spoole that offered you some help, what happened.

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: My case was dropped and I was discharged and that is when I rested.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At the time you departed from the ANC, was Richard Spoole present to be of assistance between yourself and the ANC?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: One time I called Richard Spoole, telling him about my problems, and he said to me I am no longer in the Gauteng area, I am in Mafekeng, please talk to the people around you. I said to him Richard, these people have turned their backs against me. I gave him a telephone call three or four times and until I gave up hope and I said to myself God is there, I buried my son, I repaired my house and I buried my husband, but nobody gave me any kind of help.  The people of the ANC made me suffer most.  They were now really making me suffer.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You were talking about Slovo squatter camp.  The people who were staying at Slovo squatter camp, how did they regard you?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: No, we were working closely with them and even if we are together we discuss about this incident,  it is so exciting. It is painful because when we meet we start to discuss, but they tell me how we suffer, you were helping
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 us, but now we are suffering. We are suffering now. Even if there is work, but it is given to those people who belong to the family members of the staff.  They forget that we have taken these people from the farms.  We just talk with them peacefully, there is no problem.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Apart from your severed relationship with the ANC and that even Slovo people are still supporting you, in the village, who are those who are supportive of you? Let me make it simple.  In the church, around your area, what kind of member are you?

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: Do you mean what kind of a person am I within the community?