Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-20

CHAIRPERSON: You will recall that yesterday we postponed this application of Mr Gwamanda until today because of the withdrawal of his legal representative and Mr Mchunu came and introduced himself to us this morning.
	Mr Mchunu, I'd just like to thank you for assisting us and standing in on short notice in this matter, thank you very much.
	Mr Mpshe, we've got another matter set down for today, that is the application of M R Ndlovu(?).  Is anybody here to represent him or any people here?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, I arranged yesterday with the legal rep that we will do his matter in the afternoon at 2 o'clock.  He will be here at 2 o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, and then we can take it, we can see what the status of this matter is and if necessary make an arrangement regarding that matter, thank you.
	Yes, well we can now start with this application.  Is there anything else, no startling surprises?   Mr Mchunu?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, may I before Mr Mchunu commences, by agreement with him just to bring some amendments?  I don't know whether you call them amendments or ...[inaudible]

MR LAX: Sorry, you're microphone has gone off again.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Some corrections to the application.  This has been confirmed by both the applicant and Mr Mchunu so that it does not cause confusion as we proceed.
	Mr Chairman, I will start on page 18 of the affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: 18 of the bundle?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: 18 of the bundle, paginated 18, paragraph 26.  That is the incident of the killing of the taxi owner.  The name of the taxi owner, Mr Gumede.  I just want to place it on record that it has been established that Mr Gumede did not die because of the applicant's act.  He was shot but he survived and he died later on of an illness unrelated to the shooting.

CHAIRPERSON: So he died of natural causes?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Natural causes.  And then still the same paragraph, line 7 of that paragraph, the sentence starting with
"The taxi owner stopped the vehicle next to the one I was driving"
Then he says:
"Mfeka alighted from the kombi"
It is actually not Mfeka there, it should read: 
"Mtini Ndokweni"

CHAIRPERSON: I see on my copy there's - you can see that somebody has written it in.  It's not very clear.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: The Chair had the privilege of using my copy.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh.  Is it Mtini Ndokweni?
N-D-O-K-W-E-N-I?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Correct, Mr Chairman and Members of the Committee.
	And if the Members are ready we move to page 24, paragraph 38.  In this incident no mention is made of the victim but it has been established, and the applicant has confirmed that, that the name of the victim is: Million, as in the actual million, Meyiwa:  M-E-Y-I-W-A.  Those are the only corrections I wanted to put on record, thank you Mr Chairman.  My learned friend can confirm that.

MR MCHUNU: I do confirm that, Mr Chairman and Members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Mchunu.

MR MCHUNU: Without any further ado, Mr Chairman, I will start straight away leading the applicant in this application.  I would call him and ask that he be sworn in.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Mr Mchunu?

MR MCHUNU: Mr Gwamanda, is it correct that you are in custody at Durban Westville Medium, a prison in Westville?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

MR MCHUNU: Before you were arrested and actually convicted of the incident, that is of the robbery of which you were finally convicted of, where did you reside?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I was residing in - are you referring to the first ones, the first incident or the first arrest?

CHAIRPERSON: You are presently serving a prison term, before your arrest in respect of the offence for which you are presently serving a term, where did you reside?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: At Ndwedwe, Mzumkulwayo.

MR MCHUNU: I understand that at some stage you were in prison round about the year 1983.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

MR MCHUNU: For a robbery at Matubatuba.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

MR MCHUNU: And after that I also understand that you served your sentence at various places.  Would you tell the Chairman and the Members of the Committee in which places did you serve your sentence?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I was first arrested at Matubatuba and I was taking to Empangeni Prison, after which I was transferred to Point Prison.  After spending one year at that particular prison, after a year I was taken in 1985 and I was taken to Barberton.

MR MCHUNU: Would you then lead us through your stay in Barberton Prison?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

MR MCHUNU: Particularly in relation to your application today.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes.

MR MCHUNU: Go ahead.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: In 1983 I was arrested in December, November 11.  I was arrested by the Mbunande police.  I was charged for robbery ...[intervention]

MR MCHUNU: Just to interrupt you, Mr Gwamanda, can you stick at your stay, particularly to your stay at Barberton Prison and relating to your application brought today?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I'm going there, please listen.  I am continuing now.

MR LAX: What your lawyer is trying to suggest to you is we don't waste time with the build-up as to how you got to Barberton but that you start with Barberton so we can move a little bit quickly.
MR GWAMANDA
"Yes, I'm headed there.  I was transferred to Point in 1985 in March and I was then transferred to Barberton Maximum.  There are different prisons in Barberton, yet in one premises.  I was taken from Maximum to Medium B according to my classification.  I left Medium B and I was taken to Open Kem(?)  I was transferred from Open Kem to town.  That was in 1990.  That is where I submitted my amnesty application.
	As I was in town prison I met Elijah Mhlaba.  That is where Elijah Mhlaba became my friend and we could converse as friends.  At that time in town prison, that's when Elijah Mhlaba told me that he was a member of Inanda(?) under Enoch Mabuza in Low Veld.  That's where Elijah Mhlaba told me that he works hand-in-hand with AWB".

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what did you say he was, a member of what, Nyanda?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Inanda.  There was an organisation called Inanda.  I don't know much about that organisation but the last time I saw him he was a member of Inanda under Enoch Mabuza.

MR LAX: Sorry Interpreters, the word is N-Y-A-N-D-A, not Inanda.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes, Nyanda, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Gwamanda, the interpreters have to interpret simultaneously with you and it's very difficult for the to keep up with you when you're speaking fast.  If you could speak just a little bit slower so it will make it a bit easier for the interpreters, thank you.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Okay, alright.

MR MCHUNU: You can go ahead.
MR GWAMANDA
"That's when Elijah Mhlaba told me he was working hand-in-hand with the AWB and he pleaded with me and said I should agree that I'm an IFP member so that we can be colleagues or work hand-in-hand in prison.  I agreed to that as he was pleading with me.
	He pleaded for a long time with me and I did not know then as to what to do because I was elected as a chairman in prison, elected by other inmates.  I was leading the entertainment part.  He told me that there were leaders in prison or authorities in prison who were also AWB members and who were working with AWB.  He said he will take me with and introduce me to them.
	Indeed he took me to them and showed me Sergeant Venter.  There he is, Lieutenant Venter, there he is.  Sergeant Venter took me and told me that we should go and identify targets outside the prison at the shooting range to plug those papers in preparation of practising in the shooting range".

MR MCHUNU: Sorry to interrupt you.  Apart from Lieutenant Venter, who else did you meet at Barberton Prison?