bitter-aloe/trc-testimonies huggingface dataset:
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-30

DR BORAINE: Chairperson the final witness appearing before the Commission is Mrs Paulina Mohale and I will ask her to come forward please.  Can you hear me all right?

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: Yes I can hear you.

DR BORAINE: Welcome to the Commission.  You have been waiting a very long time, since early this morning.  You must be quite exhausted, but finally your turn has come and we look forward to hearing your story.  First tell me who is with you today?

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: This is my mother.

DR BORAINE: We would like to welcome your mother very warmly and I am grateful that you are together today.  Your story goes back to 1976 and it is a very grim story and we are going to ask you to tell us that in a moment.  But first of all if you would please stand for the taking of the oath.

GOTLA PAULINA MOHALE: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  I am not going to ask you any more questions or help you to tell your story, instead I am going to ask a colleague, fellow commissioner Ms Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Good afternoon Paulina.  I just want to give you some background notes about the time in 1976.  The General Law Amendment Act of 1963 was still in place in 1976.  This legislation allowed detention without trial and
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
2 G P MOHALE
it authorised any commissioned officer to detain, without a warrant any person suspected of political activities and to hold them without access to a lawyer for 90 days.  In terms of this act and the terrorism act many people were detained in connection with the alleged recruitment of guerilla fighters in South Africa.  June 16 1976 saw the outbreak of violence on a larger scale than has ever been experienced in South Africa.  During this time police were engaged in countrywide arrests, both adults and children were arrested.  Quite a number of children went missing and most of them were not being held by police but had gone into hiding following the house-to-house raids.  It was during this time that Pauline got arrested and suffered all kinds of human rights violations, such as detention, interrogation, torture and lack of basic human needs.
 Pauline in your statement you said you were arrested together with a lot of your friends in 1976, can you tell us what were you doing before you got arrested, were you working, what were you doing actually?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

MS MKHIZE: Maria I think I heard you saying that you starting fighting with the cops during the funeral, would you be able to remember how old were these people who were fighting the cops?

MS M MTHEMBU: They were in the age of between 17 and 19, it was COSAS, the student congress because the child who had been killed there was a COSAS student, he was still at school.
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
30 M MTHEMBU

MS MKHIZE: Another thing I would like you to explain to the Commission, you said they took you, arrested you, put you in jail, they were hitting tables and they just put you on a cold floor, are there other things you would like us to know that they did there?

MS M MTHEMBU: Things that they did there is that while I was in the cell they used to come at night, pull me out of the cell and they'd show me a cell and said you see this cell there were lots of blood around in this cell.  And then they said if we are going to kill you we are going to kill you - the place will look like this cell.  Those were things they used for threatening and harassing you and then they would take you back to your cell after they had shown you all of that.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you Mrs Sarah, Dr Boraine has already said that we empathise with you.  We hope and believe that maybe the Commission will be able to assist you and investigate who killed Jerry.  We thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

CHAIRPERSON: Any other questions?  I am sort of going to begin to sound like a cracked record with the needle stuck because I am saying to different people of course much the same kind of thing.   Firstly we are enormously grateful to all of you who come to give testimony here to expose your pain to the public.  We hope so very much that in that process a healing will begin to happen because the nation acknowledges that something did happen to you.  As we are aware it is awful things that have happened on both sides.  The person who preceded you is a victim of violence from the liberation movements allegedly.
 But we want you to know that we will not forget the contribution that people like yourself and your husband have made to help bring us to where we are today that we can now sit here, that we could have our President come here and it be our President, where all of us were involved in his election.  I hope it is some comfort ...(tape ends) ...make it possible for freedom to come.
 We hope too that as you see the police being rehabilitated, becoming our police, that God will help you too, that that change there too can happen.  I like your smile.  Thank you very much.
 I suggest that we break for tea.  Will you please stand JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
19 R SALOJEE
as the witnesses go out.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS FOR TEA
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-30

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know if you heard they were asking that they were taken with his friend because they were keeping ANC ammunition, did you know that?  Did you know that your husband that he was working together with the ANC?
JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
6 L SEFOLO

LIZZIE THANDI SEFOLO: I don't know anything about ammunition and weapons.  I don't know anything about the weapons.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is there anybody with a question?

DR RANDERA: Perhaps I am asking the same question but in a different way.  You have told us what happened or what your understanding of your husband was, what happened to him, can you perhaps tell us about your husband because we don't know anything about him and I think people should know who your husband was and other aspects of him that you want us to know about.

LIZZIE THANDI SEFOLO: Harold was a businessman.  He was also involved in the organisation but they were calling it the underground.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mamma.  We have listened.  We can also hear your requests.  We thank God for having given you the strength to go through all those difficulties all these years, that you are able to bring up the children and educate them and that you are able to come here to this Commission to come and relate your story.  Thank you.  May God console you and we also on our side we will try to investigate about your request.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

CHAIRPERSON: We are all hurt as much as you are hurt.  We've heard of Omgepotsi many a times.  Most of the times when we were involved in rallies his name was used.  We know that you are deeply hurt and maybe there might be a remedy.  Our nation regarded him as a very brave person, as a hero.  We were part of him.  I know that will never bring him back, that is why most of us, even if you say you don't know whether he was involved in politics or not he was one of our people who started saying to the Black people be proud, be proud of your colour, don't imitate the Whites.  He's one of those.  He had a very great portion of participation in the struggle.  We are thankful that you brought him into this world, a brave person.  Thank you.  We thank you, you can leave.

MOLESENG ANNA TIRO: I just wanted to say something first.  I have a request, can you please investigate who really killed my son, or maybet have any suggestion now because he is not here with us.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

DR BORAINE: Chairperson before I call the next witnesses I would like to extend a very special word of welcome to Nobel Peace Prize winner, Oscar Arias who is the former President of Costa Rica, and as the Archbishop reminded us yesterday the first President of any country in living memory to ban an army, there is no army in Costa Rica and that's a remarkable thing.  We must talk.

APPLAUSE: (Tape ends)
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: Mr Siyoko thank you for coming to talk to us we can understand the feeling that you have that even though this is passed you would like the true facts to be known and that you still have a sense of injustice at having been convicted for something you say you didn't do.
 It may not be possible for us to go back into that court record and to re-examine - sometimes it is possible - we will have to see.  But many years have passed since that time and maybe in a way this is the best opportunity for you to say what is on your heart and you've had that opportunity.
 The important thing is for you and the other members of your community - to go forward and not backwards and we hope very  much that this will be a step forward out of that - that past which can't be undone as you say you were blessed that you did not have to serve the long prison sentence you would otherwise have been convicted.
 So we thank you for coming and for helping us all to understand and to remember the terrible things that we all did to one another in that time.  And we hope that you will be one of the leaders who can take this community forward.  It is possible for example some - there are church organisations and other organisations which offer opportunities for healing of the memories - workshops to take place.  And it may be that you as the people of Hanover would like to explore that as a possibility and we will remain in touch with  you all and do what we can to help to make sure that those wounds are healed and that reconciliation begins to happen.  Thank you very much.
 We are now going to take a break and we will ask you please to remain in your  places while the witnesses leave the hall.  They are going to go and have some lunch and we will be back here it's now just after quarter past one, we will aim to resume again at quarter past two.
 I would remind you again please to leave your headsets behind when you go out of the hall and we look forward to see you again at quarter past two, but please just stay where you are while the witnesses leave through this door I believe. Please would the witnesses leave the room first - thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

CASE NO: CT/00381/

VIOLATION: SEVERE ASSAULT -

MARY BURTON: Can you - can you hear me well Mr Sonamzi.

NCAMISILE SONAMZI: Yes.

MARY BURTON: Please will you stand to take the oath.
NCAMISILI STANLEY SONAMZI duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Thank you - will you please sit down.  Mr Sonamzi you are the last of our witnesses from Hanover to talk to us this afternoon.  We welcome you - you are going to tell us how you were involved in opposing the actions of informers and then later you were yourself branded as an informer.  Please tell us your experiences before this happened and then after you were arrested what happened.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: Thank you Mr Sonamzi - I am going to ask my colleagues if they have any questions they want to ask you.    Mr Sonamzi you've given us another picture of the events that took place in Hanover at the time, and our investigators have tried to follow up the information that you have given us and they have corroborated the times that you were held in detention.
 You have yourself pointed to the way in which communities were divided and people were affected by the conflict of the time.  And clearly that was a very big factor in your life at the time.  And we hope that you have had some satisfaction from telling your point of view of the story and if there is anything  you would like to ask us to do, please -please do that.

NCAMISILE SONAMZI: I request that the Commission - the people that I am - the names I am going to give now that you would call these people - it is four police, I want to talk to them, Maliti, Dick Dick, and two other policeman from Middelburg, one is a Coloured man, and the other a boer.  The four of them and Gasmene who is amongst the people here in the hall, together with Dini.
 I want to sit down with them, I want to talk to them, I want to talk to these people, I want to talk to the police about my life.

MARY BURTON: As I said to you earlier, to everybody earlier I think it's clear that there is a great deal of work that needs to be done here amongst you and all the other people in this community.  And we will be available to hold further meetings and to try and bring people together as we return particularly with our reparations and rehabilitation's committee to see what can be done to deal with the issues that still divide people in this community.
 But we also ask that all of you take responsibility also for dealing with each other in polite and peaceful ways.  It is important that people have a chance to come together to talk, but what we don't want to do is increase feelings of hostility between different people.  So the aim must be to try and resolve differences that still exist so that we can work towards reconciliation together.
 But we will do what we can in that regard and we have taken note of the names that you've mentioned, thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: I am sorry about the noise that you have to compete with - it's quite a dramatic wind outside today.  You have given us a very strong picture of the way in which in those years the authority figures of the time felt that they could do anything.  That the state of emergency gave them powers to detain people without trials, hold them in solitary confinement, to subject them to physical torture.  
And one of the things that we hope to do towards creating the kind of society in which that can never happen again.  Community organisation like NOYCO was seen as centres of resistance that must be stamped out at any cost and I think that it's important for us to remember that in every little town, those struggles of the people in organisations like NOYCO and others that were affiliated to the UDF and to other political organisation - other view points even - were all part of the contribution that brought about eventually in this decade the first democratic elections and the new government that we have.  
So what you suffered was not for nothing.  It was part of the struggle to build the new society.  But we also now that you paid a heavy price - that although you say that you are reasonably well now, that experience does create an emotional impact on you and you have to rebuild your lives.  
We wish you well in doing that  and we hope that Mr Maseti you will be able to find employment because it's all very well to talk about the new democracy, but until that translates into development for the small country areas as well as for the cities and jobs and better futures for the people, we won't really be very far along the road to transformation.
But we thank you for the things that you did to help towards that process and for coming today to talk to us and to tell us what it was like to be young in Noupoort in 1985 and 1986.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Bukula thank you very much for you testimony.
MR

BUKULA: Thank you sir.

MS SEROKE: Mr Bukula you say that you your ear has been injured such that it is deaf.  Is there a doctor that you go to that gives you treatment for your ear.
MR

BUKULA: No, there's none.

MS SEROKE: Is it because you have given up or is it because you cannot afford.
MR

BUKULA: I cannot afford a doctor.

MS SEROKE: How many teeth did you loose.
MR

BUKULA: Five.

MS SEROKE: You could not help yourself by getting dentures.
MR

BUKULA: I do not have money for false teeth.

MS SEROKE: Do you enjoy walking around with no teeth?
MR

BUKULA: No, I do not enjoy it.

MS SEROKE: What is your request in connection with your ear and your teeth.
MR

BUKULA: I need help so that I can go to the doctor.  So that I can get dentures.  
Mostly I need help, my son needs to be educated.  When my parents were still alive, they would take my child to school.  Now they no longer, therefore I need help.

MS SEROKE: I trust that you are aware that as the Truth Commission we cannot promise that we will give you money to educate to your child, to get dentures and to get you a doctor to help you, but we do have the authority to recommend to the government to help you.  That is what we are going to ask the government to do for you.  Sir, it is not something that will happen immediately, but we will try.  
MR

BUKULA: Thank you very much.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] just yet.  I just want to thank you very much for coming and to hope that you will feel better as a result of having talked to us about the very bad experience that you had when you were in detention  and we ask that people should treat those experiences with respect and understanding.  As Ms Seroke said we are not in a position to be able to say that we can solve your problems, but there are things that we can do to recommend that you get proper treatment and we will do our best in that regard.  We thank you very much indeed for coming here today.  You can leave the stage now.
MR

BUKULA: We thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

JANE JAPHTA: No, I just heard a shot. I didn't see anything. I thought they were just shooting. I thought that was the warning shot. I didn't see anything.

ADV POTGIETER: Would you mind just, we need to make a note of your full names. We don't have written statement from you, so just give us your full names please.

JANE JAPHTA: I am Jane Japhta.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] thing with Mr Mosotho that stage.

JANE JAPHTA: Yes, he was my boyfriend.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much Miss Japhta. I got no further questions.

MS SEROKE: Mr Mosotho, you said that you are receiving treatment from doctors. Can you please explain that.

PETROSE MOSOTHO: I got injured in my work place in Bloemfontein. I em suffering from epilepsy and I am receiving treatment.

MS SEROKE: Are you still suffering from this.

PETROSE MOSOTHO: Yes.

MARY BURTON: We can see that you had a very bad experience and that you are still suffering from that and we offer you are sympathy and we hope that the treatment that you are getting now. Will be of some help to you. We thank you very much for coming to tell us what happened to you. Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MARY BURTON: [Indistinct] to talk to us today.  You were a very young man when these things happened to you and they have obviously had a very severe impact on you life since then.  We have taken note and we will see whether there are things that can be done to help your physical and mental condition, because obviously you are depressed still by these things that happened to you and your present circumstances.  So thank you very much for coming today.

SANDILE BOTHA: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

ADV POTGIETER: Just one other bit of information that was given to us by our investigators when they looked at the case.  At the inquest that was held subsequently into your late brother's death the police submitted some plan - a sketch plan of the scene of the incident.
And also there was evidence of the injuries that your late brother sustained and our investigators make the point that according to the explanation that the police gave - your late brother's - the right side of your late brother's body would have been turned towards the policeman who shot him, according to the way the police explained what happened, but the actual wounds in the body was on the left hand side.
So that just on that information the incident could not have happened as the police tried to explain to the court.  So that it appears as if there were quite a bit of discrepancy in the explanation that the police tried to give for the death of your brother.  But in any event you have given us your version and your version clearly contradicts even this version that the police gave, although the version of he police itself is full of difficulties and we have noted what you have said about that.
I just wanted to give you that explanation so that you have as much information as possible.  Thank you.

MARY BURTON: Ms Magam thank you for coming to tell us about this today.  It is a very hard thing for you and your family to have lost your brother in that way and we express our sympathy with you and your family.  We hope that what you have heard about the evidence that our investigators have followed up makes you feel that it was worthwhile to come and to know that there are other people who give credence and weight to the testimony that you have given today and that there is greater public understanding of the way which your brother died.  
And we know it takes courage and it puts you through additional pain to come and talk to us today, but we value very much that you came to tell us and we thank you very much indeed.  Is there anything else that you want to say to us or ask of us.

NOMPURURU EVELYN MAGAM: What I would like to say is that my brother was a breadwinner at home.  He was the one supporting us.

MARY BURTON: [Indistinct] understand that and your family is probably suffering hardship now.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

ADV POTGIETER: His right leg and foot was healthy when he was taken into detention.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: His leg was fine.  He always used to play rugby.  His leg was normal.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] is now got a mental illness - he's never had a history of that - neither has your - nobody else in your family has had any mental illnesses.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: There's no such history in my family.

ADV POTGIETER: After he came out of detention.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: He started being ill in prison - in detention.

ADV POTGIETER: I just want to ask you one final thing - are you working for a Doctor Standard - is that his name or Stander.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: Yes sir, it is his surname.

ADV POTGIETER: And you said in your statement that there were other people who were also tortured in detention apart form your son and you've mentioned the name of Babela Ngada.  Is that correct.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: It is so sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And you are talking to - about the son of the lady next to you in fact.  Just that the spelling was not right in the statement.  Can I ask you perhaps briefly to move the mike to Ms Mjada.

ADV POTGIETER: I am sorry I'm just going to ask Ms Ntsizakalo a last question.  Would you just move the mike to her please.  Ms Ntsizakalo does your son still get treatment for his medical condition at present.

GLADYS NTSIZAKALO: Yes, he's under treatment.   When he gets disturbed mentally we take him to Queenstown.  He gets treatment from the clinic.  He gets an injection.  At the mental asylum he gets an injection.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.

MARY BURTON: Ms Mjada and Ms Ntsizakalo I think every mother who heard you speaking today ill be able to sympathise with you.  We all hope that our sons will grow up healthy and strong and able to lead productive lives.  And we can really understand your anxiety about them now about their future.  You've shown a terrible picture of the kinds of things that happened to young people at that time in your area.  
We hope that your worries about the possible discontinuing of the disability grant will not be realised and we will do what we can to recommend that they go on receiving the support that they need and we hope that they will be able to get the medical and psychological attention that they need and that you'll have that anxiety set at rest.  You were very brave to come here today and tell about this and we thank you very much indeed and we pray that you will be comforted.  
We are now going to take a in a minute a short break - just for ten minutes or so to give people a change to stand up and move around but we will ask you first to remain seated and to allow the witnesses to go out to the foyer which I presume is at the back.  So will the witnesses now leave the room.  You can follow Gail in the red jacket and you are very welcome also to leave the stage.  I presume you will go that way.  Thank you very much indeed.  And we will be back here.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MARY BURTON: Can I move then to Mrs Juda.
ELIZABETH JUDA  Duly sworn states

ELIZABETH JUDA: Yes, we can proceed.  On this day of this incident I was at home together with my child and I stayed at home the whole day.  Just before eight o'clock in the evening I was trying to sleep.  And my child just went out and I asked her where he was going and he said that he was going to look for his sister and I refused for him to go outside.  
There was a toi-toi outside and I could see that he wanted to go there.  He said to me he is going to come back just now.  He just wants to go and see Nomaliso.  And I fell asleep.  I didn't wait up for him.  At about early in the morning, I heard a knock in the window and Mrs Sionzana said that our children have fallen.

ELIZABETH JUDA: [Indistinct] told her to go out and look for him to look for my son.  Nomaliso went out to look for him.  She was looking for Mongezi outside.  She kept she went around looking for him and at about five o'clock Nomaliso decided to go and look for him in the hospital and she went to the hospital to look for him. 
 When she arrived there she asked one man who was working there.  She asked whether Mongezi was there.  And this man said that he saw him.  And they came with they went to the police station with the van.  No police came to me, even until today.

MARY BURTON: I notice in your statement that the library is named after your son, Mongezi.
It seems strange that you have a library named after him, but you've not even got a death certificate for him.  You are now pensioner yourself and you have other children.  Are they able to help you.

ELIZABETH JUDA: Mrs Sionzana and myself were called in the police station and they told us were our children were shot.  My were shot in the head and I saw this white man and I was dizzy at the time, because I was thinking about my son, because he was studying in Transkei and he was here in Colesberg for the school holidays at that time.

MARY BURTON: Do you want to tell us.

ELIZABETH JUDA: It hurts me because he's the only one.  I expected him to go further with his education.

MARY BURTON: [Indistinct] have any at the moment.  Is it working all right.
We understand that you had high hopes for Mongezi because he was the one who was studying.  And your children, where are they now.

ELIZABETH JUDA: I didn't see any policemen, any comrades, there was nothing about my child.  If this woman was not here to tell me where my child was, I would still be not aware of what happened with my child.

MARY BURTON: One of the things that is coming out in the testimony of all of you is the strength that you gained from one another and the help you were able to give to one another.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MARY BURTON: Ms Sionzana, shall we turn to you.  If we could move the mike there.  
JULENA SIONZANA  Duly sworn states

JULENA SIONZANA: Whilst we were sleeping, we had a few people singing and as these sounds was approaching, it stop right in front of my yard.  It took some time.  My brother's child went into my house, Fundiswa, and she told Funeka that we must go.  And Funeka was already up  at that stage.  They left together.  
After a while when they were gone, I just heard a few shots.  After a time they've gone, I just heard a few shots.  After the shots, there were children who ran past.  They were running.  Thereafter I lay down until in the morning.  And then my sister Sionzana arrived and she said your child is in Bloemfontein in the government mortuary.  And then I was shocked and that's the last thing I heard. Thank you.  It seems I have finished giving my testimony.

MARY BURTON: You have mentioned that in your statement that Funeka and also Nombulelo were taken in the same ambulance, is that right.

JULENA SIONZANA: Yes, that is so.

MARY BURTON: And was there ever any court case or any enquiry of investigation?

JULENA SIONZANA: Yes, there was a court case.  We were called to appear there.  We were called and we were told that our children's matter will be discussed.  In that court there were four policemen.  Apparently were from Graaff-Reinett.  They case was discussed in our but we were not aware as to what was happening and the case was to be postponed to Grahamstown.  Till today we are still waiting for that.

MARY BURTON: Mr Sionzana you mentioned that in your community clinic has been named after Funeka, but that one of the things you would like to do would be to have a [indistinct]
JULENA SIONZANAYes, Funeka is the clinic is named after her.  I don't know why, but the clinic is named after her.

MARY BURTON: Thank you.  Is there something else you would like to say before I move on to one of the other witnesses.

JULENA SIONZANA: The one thing that I want to say is that I am very hurt about my child because she would have been helping me today.

MARY BURTON: You are now dependant on a pension, is that right?

JULENA SIONZANA: Yes, it is so.

MARY BURTON: But you have to care for your other child and your grandchildren.

JULENA SIONZANA: Yes, it is so.

MARY BURTON: Thank you Ms Sionzana.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MARY BURTON: Mr Kopung thank you for bringing your case to our attention.  I think it is one more illustration of the way in which many of the municipal police at that time felt that they could act in ways in which one would not expect policemen to behave and we certainly will see what can be done to investigate further how this apparent quarrel over a soccer difference escalated into such a severe incident.  Is there anything else that you would like to say.

PAULOS KOPUNG: No, there's nothing else.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much then for coming here today.

PAULOS KOPUNG: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

MARY BURTON: We have two more witnesses to hear.  One of them we know is in hospital and I am not sure whether he has been able to get here.  He is Siphiwo Ndomile.  Is he here yet.  Siphiwo Ndomile, is he here yet.  Siphiwo Ndomile.  No, I don't think so and we will call the next witness. Mimi Themba Rasmante.  Please come the stage, Mr Rasmante.
Good afternoon, Mr Rasmante, Can you hear me well.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: Yes.

MARY BURTON: Please will you stand to take the oath.
MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE Duly sworn state

MARY BURTON: Can I make sure that I am pronouncing your name correctly.  Is it Rasmante?

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: Rasmante

MARY BURTON: Advocate Potgieter will facilitate your evidence.

ADV POTGIETER: Good afternoon.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: Good afternoon.

ADV POTGIETER: And welcome.  Your testimony will deal again with the incident that happened very early in 1985 which we've heard about from quite a few of the witnesses that testified before you.  Now your statements starts off with what happened on the 2nd  July in 1985 here in Colesberg, although you were not personally involved  in what took place on that particular day.  You indicated that there was some action taken by the youth who were blockading the entrance to the township.  And that that was followed the following day, the 3 of July 1985, by some further incidents.  Now I'd like you to take it from the 3 of July onwards.  From the time that you were actually involved and tell us what happened.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-09

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Rasmante, [indistinct]

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: I am a bricklayer, but I have a problem as I have stated before.  I can not bend for a long time, because my back is so painful.  It is hurting.  And my job requires me to bend all the time.

ADV POTGIETER: You say that you were tortured and assaulted over a number of days.  Were you constantly told to tell the truth.  Did the police want you to admit to these four charges that they eventually brought to you.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: Yes, they wanted me to agree with them.

ADV POTGIETER: Chris Labane, is he a policeman from Colesberg?

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: When I was released from prison, he was no longer here.   People say that he is in Aliwal North.

ADV POTGIETER: Now he seem to have been central in what you have experienced.  How do you feel about that and how do you feel about Mr Labane at this stage?

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: When I hear the name of Chris, I get very, my heart is so painful when I hear that name.  When I think about Chris, the things that he did to me.  I will never forget them until I die.  I'm still thinking of that, because even now I am not healthy.  I frequent the doctors, even the doctors they not help me.  Sometimes I go to the chemist to buy myself medicine.  But I say to Chris I don't want to see him in front of my eyes really.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] nothing else to ask.

MARY BURTON: Mr Rasmante, thank you for coming here today.  It's clear that you have suffered a great deal and that these memories are still very clear and very painful for you. We hope that this will have been one step in a process of healing for you in mind and body and we thank you again for coming.  I don't now if there is any final thing that you would like to say to us before you step down.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: There is nothing else.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much indeed once again.

MIMI THEMBA RASMANTE: Thank you.

MARY BURTON: As I mentioned before, we were expecting to hear the testimony of Siphiwo David Ndomile.  He has been transferred from the hospital here to Bloemfontein, so we will not be able to hear him today, but we want to assure his mother, who I think is still here that it makes no difference.  That his statement will equally be recorded and be taken into account by the Truth Commission.  He told us in his statement, his written statement that he was arrested by members of the security forces round about September 1979.  And they gave him something which turned out to be a explosive device.  They told him not to show it to anybody until he got home and then when he got home, he tried to open it.  It had a very strong smell and members of his family urged him to take it outside and throw it outside and as he was doing so, it exploded in his hands and severally injured his right hand.  We thank his mother for coming today and him for making a statement.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

ADV POTGIETER: So the - the only reason why they attacked you, was because you were trying to stop them from attacking your niece.

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes that's the only reason.

ADV POTGIETER: You say that you laid a charge against them - with the police.

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes I laid a charge and we went to the Magistrate but the case just disappeared.

ADV POTGIETER: And nothing happened to them at all.

MR SIMAKADANE: To - no nothing happened to them.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you know why that, why that is so?

MR SIMAKADANE: This is the reason I am here - I want to know what happened - many of the Councillors we have and many of them are members of the ANC now - and I want the Commission to find out from the Magistrate what happened on that case - how can he just leave the case and not consult me, that is very difficult for me to understand.

ADV POTGIETER: We have noted that, I can perhaps mention to you at this stage that our own investigators looked into the case to try and find out what was going on and they have been to the police station in Phillipstown, but they could not find any record of the case that you have laid with the police.
 So unfortunately up to this stage we haven't yet been able to locate the records about - in connection with the case that you have laid.

MR SIMAKADANE: I think you can find this person he is in Bloemfontein - his name is Bothma - he is not overseas -he is in Bloemfontein.  He can tell you about this dockets, I think he is the one who destroyed the dockets, his name is Bothma.  He is a Magistrate, he was here before.  He must come here and tell where the dockets are.

ADV POTGIETER: He was a Magistrate where in which place?

MR SIMAKADANE: Here in Phillipstown.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Simakadane is there anything else that you would like to bring to our attention, anything else that you want to add to what you have already said?

MR SIMAKADANE: No there is nothing, I am full.

ADV POTGIETER: I am glad to hear that you have cleared your heart,  you have spoken your heart, that's what we are here for, thank you very much.

MR SIMAKADANE: Ja - dankie.

MARY BURTON: Just wait one moment please Mr Simakadane, do you want to ask - Mr Simakadane just to be quite clear Lholho Khapha was your niece is that right - is your niece?

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes that's the one.

MARY BURTON: And [indistinct] her father, who was injured is Mr Mahoko Khapha is that right.

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes that's correct.

MARY BURTON: And what is this relationship to you?

MR SIMAKADANE: He is my brother-in-law.

MARY BURTON: Brother-in-law.

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes.

MARY BURTON: And are you - you are working at the moment?

MR SIMAKADANE: Yes I am working.

MARY BURTON: So you have helped us to understand some of the situation in Phillipstown at the time, and we will do what we can to follow up the indications you have given us.  
 We are very sorry that you suffered this injuries and that you've lost your teeth, but we thank you very much for coming here today, thank you.

MR SIMAKADANE: Dankie.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: It is now for me to thank all the many people who helped to make this hearing possible.  It has been a privilege for us to be in Hanover today.  We thank the Mayor of Hanover Mr Booysen and the Town Clerk Mr Nothnagel for all the help that they have given us in arranging places for us to meet and in making contact for us with the local people.
 We thank also Mr Mweba the Town Clerk of Noupoort and the other representatives from Noupoort who are here.  
 We thank Mr Mweba senior for helping us  with  statement taking and Bonwabise.
 We thank all the people from Noupoort who have come to hear the Noupoort testimonies today.
 We thank also the helpers we've had from Phillipstown, Gemane Batwali and Mr Benson.  Janet Booba and Bull Matiso.
 We thank also all the hard workers who have helped us to prepare these hearings.  We thank Solly Terblanche and his team for providing the sound and the amplification.
 We thank the interpreters for making it possible for you to hear these testimonies in the language of your choice, we think they do a wonderful job and we are very grateful to have them.
 We thank the media who are here to record and write about what they have seen and heard today.
 We thank the statement takers who were here in the area before and are here now and have built up the body of evidence from this region.
 We thank the briefers, our own full time briefer Paul Haupt and the team of people from the local communities who have supported our witnesses today and have been with them beforehand and will remain in contact with them afterwards.
 We thank the local people who have helped us with provision of food also, and the entire team of our own staff under the leadership of our logistics officer Gail van Breda with perhaps particular thanks to the drivers who have had to cover long distances to bring people to the different places where we've met.
 We thank the members of the South African Police services who have protected us here in this building today and in all our travelling about the area.  It isn't always easy for them to hear allegations about past events, but we know that we are in a new different society now and we need to built trust and confidence in a new viable trusted police service.
 And finally we thank all of you, representatives of the communities of Phillipstown, Noupoort and Hanover for your presence, for your support and interest and we rely on you to carry forward the process that still has to happen.
 As we have said several times during the day, miracles don't happen overnight, there is a good deal of work that still needs to be done to bring about reconciliation, and part of that has to be in development in the area so that people will find jobs and be able to have benefit in the new and better life in a free society.  We wish that for you as we wish it for all the communities that we work with, thank you very much and travel safely home if you have distances to travel.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

MARY BURTON: Thank you for telling us that.  We are aware that people are sometimes afraid or reluctant for other reasons to come and testify.  So that's another reason that we are grateful to have heard from you.  
We hope that during this process that this Commission is doing it's work, we can begin to establish the kind of relationships, where people will not be afraid to come and speak the truth.  Because we can't carry forward the same kind of problems that we had in the past.  We have to build a society where people can be honest and can speak without fear  and that is one of the things that this Commission will be working towards, but we need the co-operation of many people to achieve that.  
Ms Dwyali, thank you too for coming today.  These experiences have an effect on families and everybody suffers when a son or a husband or a brother or a wife experiences this.  So we hope that things will be better for you in the future and we thank you very much for coming today.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-08

MARY BURTON: Welcome again Mr Nkumbi - you have come to tell us about the death of your brother Albert Nkumbi and also of the experience of your sister Charlotte is she here today.

MR NKUMBI: No she is not here.

MARY BURTON: Ms Seroke is going to facilitate your evidence.

MS SEROKE: I would like to greet you Mr Nkumbi - we appreciate that you came here today to tell us what happened to your brother.  Is he your older brother or your younger brother.

MR NKUMBI: My older brother.

MS SEROKE: Can you please tell us Mr Nkumbi the situation in Hanover at this time - at this time of the riot.

MR NKUMBI: I thank this opportunity to be here today to come in front of the people to tell my pain to - to express my pain.  In 1985 I was a teacher in Phillipstown and in September I terminated my services in Phillipstown, I came back because I got a post here, but unfortunately when I was here, they told me that the post was no longer available.

MS SEROKE: Sorry what was the post about.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

MARY BURTON: Good morning Ms Tantsi.

MS TANTSI: Good morning.

MARY BURTON: Can you hear me well through the ear phones - thank you.

MS TANTSI: Yes,  I can hear you.
BEAUTY TANTSI  Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: You have come today to tell us about what happened to you and to a number of members of your family  in July 1985.  And - your other members of your family are here as well, the other people who were injured at the time.

MS TANTSI: Unfortunately my mother is not here - she's is ill.  She is not feeling well.  That's why she's not here today.

MARY BURTON: I am sorry to hear that.  Please give her our greetings and good wishes.  Please will you tell us then about what happened in your family home on that day in July 1985.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

MARY BURTON: Thank you - thank you Ms Tantsi.   We've taken note of your request on behalf of your sister, Olga, and I am pleased to know that both you and she are receiving medical and psychiatric care.  This experience has obviously had a very bad effect on your lives and we hope that you will be enabled to lead happy and satisfactory lives.
You've lost a great deal, but now after all of that time, we have come to a new society, a new democracy and we hope that in some way you will feel that the things that you experienced were part of the process of transformation of our country and in that way you have made a contribution.
So we wish you better health and that things will go better for you and your mother and sister and your family.  Thank you very much coming to tell us today.

MS TANTSI: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-10

CASE NO: CT/00139

TESTIMONY BY: ELISA ADONIS [mother]

DR BORAINE: Elisa Adonis we ask her please to come to the witness stand.  Good afternoon Ms Adonis, can you hear me in the earphones.  Good, thank you very  [indistinct]

PHINEUS ADONIS: Yes, I can hear you.

DR BORAINE: You've had a long wait and you've been very-very patient and we are very grateful to you and you are most welcome.  You are going to tell us about your son  Phineus who suffered very deeply at the hands of the police in 1992.  And all of you suffered during that time and even afterwards and you're going to tell us that story and we are going to listen to you because you are important and we care very much about your experience.
 Before I ask Glenda Wildschut to help you tell your own story, would you please stand for the taking of the oath.
ELISA ADONIS Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: Right, thank you very much, please be seated. And I'll ask Glenda Wildschut to take over from me please.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Good afternoon Ms Adonis.

INTERPRETER: I'm sorry the witness doesn't have the mike on.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Good afternoon Ms Adonis how are you?

PHINEUS ADONIS: I'm very well thank you.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: [indistinct]  a bit worried about talking today but we hope that and we will try to help you to tell your story in you own words.  Are you  hearing my voice through the earphones - she speaks Xhosa?  Are you hearing a Xhosa translation in your ears?

PHINEUS ADONIS: Yes, I can.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So we understand each other now?

PHINEUS ADONIS: Yes, I understand you very well.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Could we start now, are you ready to start?

PHINEUS ADONIS: Yes, I'm ready.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay, perhaps you can tell us a little about yourself, tell us who you are and where you stay and then could you also tell us about your son Phineus.  How old was he at the time this happened and what he was doing at the time of the incident?