Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

MS B BAM: Yes. We coined a phrase, which is not acceptable to a number of   people. We call it critical solidarity. In fact that phrase came from discussions   we have had precisely on discussing how we are going to relate to the present   government. The problem we have is that we are coming from a tradition of protest   and we have understood ourselves to be the people who are watching the government.   The method we are using is not always the method that the country appreciates.   We used in the old days the press as the major channel for us to register our   protest. Now we are using the channel of negotiation with this government. We   realise that if we talk to them through the press, then there is no dialogue.   Everybody builds a defence. And so our method is that we negotiate with the   government and we discuss with the government some of the things, which we feel   the government is not doing correctly. But there is also a lack of ecumenical   position on the part of the churches. A number of churches seem to prefer to   dialogue as denominations with this government, and wanting their denomination   to be the one that the government recognises and works with and that is weakening   our position. And so we don't have an ecumenical position, and an example of   that is over this whole question of the land. We don't have an ecumenical position.   To say to the government we are not in agreement on the whole question of compensation.   How do we involve the communities in South Africa on the issues of benefits?   In some ways the SACC's position is not as clear because of our membership.   We are much more diverse now in our outlook on issues, whereas apartheid was   easier, because the beast was there and the beast you could see. But now, as   churches, we have different positions. For instance we couldn't address the   government ecumenically on the issue of abortion. On issues of homosexuals,   and those are some of the issues that are very important to some of the churches,   and not to others. There are those who feel that we have to address the government   more on issues of poverty, and issues of correctional services. So in other   words, our position as the SACC is not as clear as it was, but critical solidarity   remains the main concept that we affirm.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you. The second question that I want to put is coming from   your very statement about the non-nationalism, which I think that even during   the time we were facing this, the SACC did say that maybe the churches need   to speak one language. Hence there was the inauguration of the church leaders   meeting, which was just a consultation to see that things did happen. The churches   spoke in one voice. Is that group still in existence? So that maybe the churches   could discourse on these things even before they could go to the world and speak   about these issues. Is that organisation still there, of the church leaders?

MS B BAM: In fact sir, it is even larger than it was during your days, because   we have had a number of churches who have joined the SACC after the liberation   of the country. So in terms of the size, the church leaders' forum is much,   much larger, but the impact we can make as church leaders is not as strong as   it should be. We are hoping that we have this one common cause and that is poverty.   It is our hope that now that we have finally found a common cause that can bind   us together and enable us as churches to speak with one voice, we will again   be visible and audible to the public in this country.
DR.

KHOZA MGOJO: Because of the constraint of the time, I want to ask this very   important question There has been a complaint before that we get the support   for the SACC from the overseas donors and there was a cry that maybe we need   to come back home and challenge our churches back home to support all the programmes   of the SACC. Has that begun in this new dispensation? Are there any problems,   and if there are any, what are those problems?

REV WESLEY MABUZA: Thank you, Mr Chairman. It is very true that the SACC got   a lot of its funding from assistance from abroad. That is still true. Just in   October we met our funders or partners, and it became clear that the SACC is   in crisis. It is in financial because the kind of pledge they offered the SACC   is very little. That is a clear indication that therefore we need to come home   and appeal to our member churches. Mr Chairman, as you know, the churches themselves   in this country are struggling to survive as denominations. We think that that   is going to be a problem. However, we are beginning, as the SACC, to engage   the churches to come up with priority programmes. Programmes that will impact   on the lives of people and that is a process, but that process is in place.   We are engaging the nation in what is called programme audit, so that at the   end of the day we take those programmes that will be effective to the congregations.   We will need to acknowledge the fact that even local funders as well as foreign   funders are most keen to fund the government, so in that case then the government   becomes the main funder. And at this point, as you have heard, we are having   what we call, you know this kind of solidarity, critical solidarity, with the   state. We think that we will need to begin not only with the member churches,   but also with the local government, with the local private sector and with the   local agencies that can afford to give money to the church. But your question   is are we in a position to be coming to our churches? Yes, it's true. We are   debating with our churches to actually fund the programmes that are important   to the lives of the people of this country.
DR.

KHOZA MGOJO: The question now - I'd ask many questions, but we don't have time.   You have just spoken, Mr Spong, about communication. I think the mistake that   has been made by mostly church organisations is that communication is done in   a foreign language in some of the constituencies, which is English! When we   are speaking about churches, the majority of grassroots people, the ordinary   people, want to see the text in front of them in their own languages. What strategy   are you going to use when you are communicating with these churches, since you   want support from the local churches?