Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR PRINSLOO: No I cannot remember that, that I tried to get hold of them.

MR MALAN: Is your answer no?

MR PRINSLOO: My answer is no.

ADV GCABASHE: Can I ask you. Is this the first time the applicants hear of this decision or have they heard about that decision prior to today? It is the first time this Committee hears of that decision.

MR PRINSLOO: What decision?

CHAIRPERSON: That everything must be stopped. Well at least the evening before the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: The evening before the Johannesburg airport incident there was talk that everything must be stopped because there will be arrests.

CHAIRPERSON: No it wasn't just talk. Everything was stopped. You knew about this.

MR PRINSLOO: That was the order yes.

CHAIRPERSON: The question that my colleague asked was the applicants did they know about this?

MR PRINSLOO: I believe that a very few of them knew.

CHAIRPERSON: They fall under your command. Why didn't they know?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct, yes. Brigadier Leon van der Merwe and co-commanders would have done this task and then convey it to the different groups. Amongst others the Ystergaarde at the game farm or shooting range.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo we are not playing rugby now. This is important. Peoples' lives are at stake here. Including the applicants' lives. You are the boss of a certain area, applicants fall under your command in your area. Why wasn't any attempts made to inform them about the fact that you are going to stop fighting this war?

MR PRINSLOO: I personally did not do it.

CHAIRPERSON: I know but why?

MR PRINSLOO: It was [intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Or did you want them to continue with this war irrespective of this decision.

MR PRINSLOO: No.

MR MALAN: Can I just come in here. I heard the witness said that they must stop everything because they will be arrested because the reason why he stopped everything it was not to prevent any further loss of life but not to be caught or arrested.

MR PRINSLOO: It could be.

MR MALAN: No I am asking you. You must decide. You said that the message came through; "Stop everything, people will be arrested." In other words: "Do not continue with the operations, we are in dangerous grounds now." Is that true.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes that is correct.

MR MALAN: But you must decide stop everything as the chairman understand what you said. "Do not go further and kill people, it is not the right thing any more. The elections will continue, we can do nothing about it." Or was the decision; "Stop everything, get away, the police will arrest us, look after yourself." What was the message that you received that evening?

MR PRINSLOO: Well it was not that clear or pertinent. "Stop everything because you will be locked up." The main reason was obviously that there will be arrests but that the people must break up and go and hide in that area.

MALAN: That was now the end of the operation in the
interests of the people who took part in this operation.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

MALAN: It wasn't a humane decision. "We must now stop killing innocent people."

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MALAN: So much more then the Chairperson asked you and the way he understand it and I still do not know what is the truth. If the instruction was to stop everything in order not to take further lives why didn't you convey this message: "Tell these people that we must not continue killing innocent people"? But I will put it to you differently. If you understood it in that it would be in the interests of the men who will be arrested why didn't you immediately drive from the farm and tell them? I do not know what this afrikaans term means but why didn't you tell them: "Get away from here, the police are onto you."

MR PRINSLOO: Most of the members were then already - they weren't at the shooting range any more. There were some members there and I am talking under correction. Mr van der Merwe made contact to us by phone in the Rustenburg area. I know some of the people phoned us during that night and said people were already arrested in the Rustenburg area and Koster area but specifically on the farm I cannot say. I know that it was at least four or five 'o clock in the morning when the people were or would have been arrested and that was from the previous evening.

MR MALAN: Mr Prinsloo I will undertake not to ask further questions to you but the picture in my head is that you suddenly became a combat general with responsibilities in this position. You have never done this before in your whole life. You get an area, certain things had to be done. You say that you delegate some of your powers. Myburg and Barnard clearly takes initiative for which you did not give them instructions but they started it and you are satisfied. You said Barnard is an expert, he will do the work and you are satisfied that the work is in good hands. I would put it to you that you were only in charge in name and you had no control of what was going on. I would like to hear your comment then I will stop asking questions.

MR PRINSLOO: I did have definite control and command over these people amongst others a person Koper Myburg and Cliff Barnard, the members at Koesterfontein who was also present there would under no circumstances make use of their own agenda without myself, Brigadier Leon van der Merwe and the other co-commanders and the Generals in Staff and Eugene Terreblanche's permission.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Prinsloo what is the military background of these generals? What military training did you receive?

MR PRINSLOO: I was in South West. I acted operationally.

ADV BOSMAN: What was your rank in the defence force?

MR PRINSLOO: I was a KO.

ADV BOSMAN: What is a KO?

MR PRINSLOO: Warrant officer. I was Katima Malibu based, stationed or stationed there.

ADV BOSMAN: And what was General Roodt's rank when he was involved?

MR PRINSLOO: I can't answer that.

ADV BOSMAN: Cruywagen?

MR PRINSLOO: I do not know.

ADV BOSMAN: Oelofse?

MR PRINSLOO: I do not know.

ADV BOSMAN: Ackerman, Dirk Ackerman?

MR PRINSLOO: No.

ADV BOSMAN: You see what worries me is that if these generals were not really generals but you said that you cannot help us with this. How well trained were they? Military trained.

MR PRINSLOO: The generals were well trained. They were also warrant officers or one of them was also a warrant officer in the police. They were well trained. If there was a shortage the generals would make use of specialised people in the South African Police or then South African Defence Force.

ADV BOSMAN: Just one more question then I will stop. On what basis were generals appointed?

MR PRINSLOO: Well according to the members he had under his command. He had to move through specific structures in the AWB.

ADV BOSMAN: In other words not for his military background and expertise?

MR PRINSLOO: No, not in all cases but we did have generals who was in charge of the culture and recreation and these type of things.

MS CAMBANIS: Can you please assist us with details. It is 4 years down the line, who and when did they decide to cease hostilities in this form of indiscriminate killing of civilians? You have had 4 years to find this out.

MR PRINSLOO: No, it was definitely not 4 years for me to find this out. The day we stopped all action with warfare was when we saw that it served no purpose. No financial gain but we remained where we were and where we did not want to be. When we realised that the ANC did or will win the elections and it can be proven we stopped all actions.

CHAIRPERSON: But you knew months before that the ANC will win. You even said so.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But why do you say now that just when you found out that the ANC will win you stopped?

MR PRINSLOO: We always hoped that somewhere we would be accommodated.

MS CAMBANIS: But Sir as you know Mr Barnard and Mr Myburg did not cease any hostilities.