Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-03

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean when you say you turned the house, maybe that has not been properly translated?
	If you can just please repeat what you have just said.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: When I left the house, or when I came out from the house, I went behind the house, I took the gun from the bag and I cocked it.

CHAIRPERSON: Now what do you mean by saying that you took the gun from the - is it back or from a bag?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: My apology there, the gun was in my pocket, in my trousers pocket, in my trousers pocket.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may proceed Mr Mtambo.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I took the magazine, I put it in my left pocket.  I only had one bullet in that gun.  It was loaded inside the gun.
	I left Maria's house, I went straight to the deceased, Mr Mshenga.

CHAIRPERSON: Did I understand you to be saying you left Maria's house for the deceased's house, Mshenga, was that properly translated?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I went to Mshenga straight, not in his house, he was on the street, not in his house.
	When I arrived there, I greeted him.  He answered back and I asked him why he was there.  He said he was there, looking for his girlfriend.  I didn't trust what he said because I have already heard something.  That is when I took out the gun from my pocket.  He was facing downwards, and I shot him from the back and then I ran away.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you believe him when he said he was there for his girlfriend?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He never used to frequent that street, and I didn't know that he had a girlfriend on that street.  This is why I didn't believe him.
	I didn't know whether he was telling the truth as to his being there because he wanted to see his girlfriend, or if he was there because of what I have already heard.
	When I shot him, I ran away.  I ran away, I passed Maria's house and I jumped the fence.   I got inside the yard, I opened the window, I got inside through the window.

ADV BOSMAN: Can I just get clarity on this please Mr Mtambo.  The street you shot him in, is this the same street Maria's house is in?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, that is the same street.

ADV BOSMAN: You explained to us earlier on that there were streets that were to be used by IFP members and streets to be used by the ANC members.
	Was this an ANC or IFP street?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I will say it was an IFP street.  IFP members used to use that street frequent, more than the ANC.

ADV BOSMAN: And then the members who visited Maria's house, who were not IFP members, which street did they use?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: The people who used to frequent Maria's place, they were neighbours, who were drinking and we used to take them as alcoholics.
	These are the people who used to frequent Maria's house.

ADV BOSMAN: Who were not IFP members, I just want clarity on that?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Most of them were IFP members who used to visit Maria's place, but those who were not affiliated with IFP, they were just alcoholics and neighbours.
	I can give an example and say ...

ADV BOSMAN: It is not necessary.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madam Chair.  Mr Mtambo, you have just testified that you had heard something from this person Duduza and that made you mistrust the deceased.  Who is Duduza and what did he tell you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct, Duduza, what Duduza told me made me  mistrust or distrust  Phumayo?

CHAIRPERSON: The question was who is Duduza and what did he tell you, there are two questions.
	Who is Duduza Qaba and the second question is, what did he Duduza Qaba tell you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Duduza Qaba, it is a member of the ANC, he was a member of the ANC and it is a female, I grew up with her.  We got along very well, and she got along well with Sophy, Ndono.
	They were friends with Sophy, Ndono.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Sophy, Ndono?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Her name is Ndono, her mother is Sophy.

CHAIRPERSON: Who are they?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Sophy is my aunt and Ndono is my cousin.  Ndono is my niece.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Mtambo, and what did this Duduza tell you?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He greeted me and he told me to be careful and when I asked him as to why should I be careful, he said I know about those people who were referred to as comrades, but he didn't give me the name of the person who was going to give me a problem, which he has already perceived.

MR LAX: Sorry, you are being very vague.  Please explain this, you are talking around.  Did she say that you know these people or maybe there is a problem with the translation, I am not sure.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He said I know the comrades, he said and I know the fact that we don't get along with the comrades and the enmity between the IFP and the ANC.
	I knew that he was there most of the time, in the township.

CHAIRPERSON: I think there was something wrong that probably you didn't say, you omitted to say or probably was omitted in the translation.  You seem to have mentioned somebody's name, but it was not translated.
	Can you repeat what you have just said so that we can get our notes corrected.  There is something missing in my note and I see there is also a nod from one of the Committee members, that he is also missing something.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I don't remember mentioning someone's name, I mentioned only Duduza.

MR LAX: Perhaps I can help here, what we are trying to understand is what exactly did she tell you?  Did she say to you I know these people, that she knows them, or did she say to you, be careful, you know these people, they are your enemies and make an implication that there was something you had to be careful about?  It is just not coming out clearly in the way either you are saying it, or it is being translated, so I want you just to try and give us the sense.
	Did she say she had heard something that you should worry about, or did she say you know these people, I have a feeling something might happen, etc?  That is what we are trying to understand.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He said to me, Stumu, you must be careful today.  That is what he said.

CHAIRPERSON: He said be careful today?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And then he used a certain name, which included comrades, what did he say about comrades?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I asked him why should I be careful, and he said you know that there is enmity between you and the comrades.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you try to ask him as to who exactly among the comrades you should be careful of or from?
	In your knowledge, the number of the comrades in Davel, were they a majority?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, they were.

CHAIRPERSON: And in other words, he was warning you to be careful from all the comrades?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Mtambo, did this Duduza mention the name of Mr Phumayo?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, I can't remember whether he mentioned his name, but if I recall very well, I don't remember him mentioning his name.

CHAIRPERSON: You just said that she did not identify any person in particular.  That is the note I have here?
	Did she or did she not, or can't you remember?  These are two different things.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, she didn't tell me.

CHAIRPERSON: Just stick to the evidence you have already testified to.  You don't have to say you don't remember if you know that he didn't identify any person.
	You get a contradiction in the two things you are saying.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: My apology there.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you Madam Chair.  Mr Mtambo, just to get back, you started your evidence by saying that you were a member of the IFP.  At that stage, how long had you been a member, and what was your rank inside the IFP?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: At first I was a Vice-Chairman of the IFP.  Mkhize left and then I was the Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it of the IFP or of the IFP Youth Brigade?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Of the IFP Youth Brigade.