Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you Reverend Maqina for the way you have explained and the way you have used this opportunity.  Before I hand over to the Chairperson of the Commission, the acting Chairperson of the Commission, I just want to ask you a few questions.
 My first question is according to your statement, I am not talking now about AZAPO that is concerning you, do you not have even just one thing that you know which could justify you asking for apology from the Port Elizabeth community so that there should be some reconciliation and acceptance so that this chapter of the events of the past, could be closed, so that you could move forward hand in hand?  Is there anything that, in your opinion, anything that you know that would require you to apologise to the PE community?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Chairperson, I would like to say that, to answer your question the conflict between these two organisations, it was not good thing to witness for anyone.  There was no one who wanted for people to lose their lives, both sides.
 Both sides, who were killed by UDF and who were killed by kids who used to stay at my place.  I believe very strongly that I am very sorry about that but I cannot erase it, because if it was there, I cannot erase it.
 I just want to be open that I can't apologise, I can't see myself apologising for false accusations, because there were false accusations spread about me and I can't apologise because I didn't commit.  Because if I can apologise, then it would be admission but because of lives that were lost at the time, I humbly apologise for that.
 I was never able to go to Kotoloze family to show my sympathy because there was this perception, this rumour that was spread that I was responsible, I couldn't go to the Goniwe who were my relatives, because there was this perception that was spread that I was responsible.
 Now if maybe you suggesting that I should apologise for those, I am not able.  I am sorry about it, but to the  people of Port Elizabeth, I am thankful that I have got this opportunity but if you feel that I am guilty, that is how you feel.  I do not blame you for not believing, because all these years that's what you've known all these years.  But that's okay.
 I would just like to ask people to go home and think about this and know that there was not just one organisation.  It was two organisations.  I do not know if I have answered your questions.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  Thank you Reverend Maqina.  That was - I just want to explain to you that I can't make you say I am sorry.  I  understand quite clearly that potential for reconciliation does exist at this moment, without just checking if that potential can be realised.  But you are definitely saying in your conscience there is nothing that would require you to apologise because you are not responsible for the tears that were shed here, you are just being accused.
 The other thing I would like to understand, you have mentioned misinformation that was spread in the press about you.  At that time did you take any steps to correct this misinformation that was being spread by the press about you?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Thank you Chairperson.  I just want to correct what you've said because I have said that because of lives that were lost at this time of the conflict, I humbly like all those who humble themselves and apologise, but what I tried to emphasise was that for accusations that were false, I cannot apologise.  I just want to make that point very clear.
 It doesn't suggest that I am not apologising, so much so that I even raised that even amongst the leadership we were friends, we were scratching one another's backs.  I tried as much as I possibly could Chairperson, to correct the perceptions and the accusations that were being spread in the press.
 I remember I tried through the  City Press when there was an article which said when I was visited by some ladies (indistinct) who visited me to try and get a solution, these were the traditional women who came to see me, who were wearing traditional wear, I said this is something good that you are going, but I would like the UDF leaders to be here.
 We quoted Mr Monopogela.  When these ladies went to Mr Monopogela they told Mr Monopogela.   What surprised me was that in the City Press the report was that Monopogela was the head of the UDF leaders.
 This shocked me.  What is usually the problem when you correct statements like that is that they, if they are released they are stuck away articles, very small stuck away and the accusation is splashed at the front page and the stuck away explanation is not seen by people.
 I just saw when AZAPO was reacting to accusations, there was just one small stuck away article regarding their response to this accusation.  But I tried everything I could.  Thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  The last question to Reverend Maqina, then I can hand him over to you.
 Reverend Maqina, we know that at the time of the oppression, many of our people, I am one of them, who were victims.  People that I say is victims, myself included, who were because the system was desperate to keep itself in power, it took some people and used them and when they were finished with them, it discarded them and threw them in the rubbish box.  People who were used like disposable handkerchiefs and thrown away when it is dirty and then they are forgotten about.  I just want to ask you a question.
 If you find it uncomfortable, just tell me.  How do you see yourself, do you in any way think that the system used you or do you think that what you did you did out of your own conviction as a person?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Chairperson, I am bitter and I am angry to a great extent, especially to my people.  To a great extent, to my people.
 When they could accept that their people who were in the forefront of fighting for the struggle with their own people, people that they knew because they were a nuisance to the system, in other words the system would use opportunities like this to smear them, then they believe, then they forget conveniently the things, the contribution of those people.
 I am not saying there are no, none of our people who were leaders who didn't cross to the side of the White, but I say I shall like others, I am not the only one, who withdrew because their people are looking down upon them.
 There are some speakers here when I was listening, who explained clearly how the system tried to defame them, but other people are not being believed when they say that this is the way the system was doing this.  I find myself a victim because the system was very, very effective in making people to see me as someone who was the cause of conflict, because that's what they wanted, because I was a torn in the system's flesh.
 Chairperson, it was not the first time that I was protecting kids, giving kids shelter.  Kids like Kuzeni Getsi, he used to go and hide, some of them were taken by the system and projected them as people who were with them and I am one of those victims, I have never been part of the system.
 I was protecting AZAPO and African kids who were members of this liberation movements, and I will say this up till I die.

BONGANI FINCA: Any more questions?  Mr Sandi?