Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-28

MR BODE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  For purposes of the record I wish to add a further name to the list of victims that will be represented by myself, the name of the 6th victim will be Mr P G Kock -  I'll spell it for purposes of the record: K-o-c-k.  I did furnish one of your personnel members with a hand-written list of the names of the victims, I trust that you have that in your possession,
if not so I will render a further list in due course.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is the person you are adding?

MR BODE: Mr P G Kock,  K-o-c-k Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, for the record it is now Mr Bode who is speaking.

MR BODE: That's correct Mr Chairperson.  I will then proceed Mr Chairperson.
	Major Mbatha, I'm firstly representing the parents of the decease Mr Izekial Mokone.  Can you tell the Commission, did you personally know the deceased prior to this incident?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, not personally.

MR BODE: The family of the deceased is very much concerned with the fact that after his unfortunate death, that you never ever approached their family up till this day in order to condone them on their loss.

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, my approach actually was this is a very serious nature - matter and if it is something that it should be done - I've actually even raised it with Smiles, it should be in a much more dignified manner.  The apology to go over to them, hence I even said to Smiles when we spoke about the matter: "It is very difficult at that stage, it is a very regrettable thing, it's a very sad feeling" and we would like actually when it is done, it should be done actually with the most atmospheric respect that it deserves.
	And at that stage would be when the correct decision came because I always had that belief and hope in my mind, it was not the fact that I'm trying to run away from there.  I've shared the pain, I've shared the feeling because loss is not something that you can just easily take light, particularly being a parent with an aspirant child who might have assumed a role in the family and it happened that out of my action, that his life was actually shortened at that time.  
	So the idea was not because of I'm running away from it, yes it is true Sir, I didn't go there.  I even said to Smiles, if it is done, it should not be done in drips and drabs as if he's hiding to go there, it should be done in a manner that when one goes over, when the truth is revealed about the process, that it will be in a much more dignified manner, thank you Sir.

MR BODE: Major Mbatha, you must also respect the wishes of the family and as to how they may feel about the loss of their own son and not so much of how other people may evaluate such a loss.  It is my specific instructions from the parents whom are present at this hearing, to ask you officially in public here and now to apologise for your action that led to the death of their son.  Are you willing to do so, yes or no?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes, Sir.

MR BODE: I believe that approximately two days after the unfortunate death of their son, members of the ANC Executive paid a visit to the residence of the Mokone family and certain promises were made regarding sharing the expenses of the funeral and other costs, unfortunately nothing materialised.   Do you know about  these proposals that were made?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, not to the best of my knowledge.

MR BODE: Did you ever try to find out whether the family of the deceased were comforted by any means of financial support or emotional support after the death of their son?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, honestly speaking - as I've said, it was a sad feeling and regarding myself and Smiles at the level that we have at this type of act, means of doing at that stage was waiting for the right moment to come.

MR BODE: You Major Mbatha, often referred during your testimony to the fact that as a result of the explosion certain comrades and members of the leadership were injured as a result of the blast, what about other people that were also injured and whom did not form part of the comrade grouping and/or the leadership?  What about the other people, the innocent bystanders, what about them?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, as I've said it is really regrettable for them also to become victims of the very same act.  That is where I would say also, I do convey my apology to them.

MR BODE: Major Mbatha, do you agree with the fact that the building in which the Bop Consulate was situated at that time, is a building of approximately 10 to 15 stories high, do you agree with that?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, it is a huge building with a number of floors upwards.

MR BODE: Mr next victim is a gentleman with the name of Mr Dan Pethani, now he was employed in that building at that time and he was merely walking past the incident and observing for that moment what was happening at the entrance to the complex in which his office was situated and as a result thereof he was injured by the blast.  Now, he had nothing to do with the whole march or he was no party to the planning and whatsoever  Do you specifically and also here without any reservations apologise to Mr Pethani for that what was a result of your actions?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes Sir, I do.

MR BODE: I've also a number of other victims here that are still suffering to various extents as a result of the injuries sustained, injuries that were sustained more that four years ago, people who still have shrapnel in their bodies and whom from to time may have to undergo further treatment.  Their names are as follows
Miss A Gorrel
Miss Millicent Ntebe
Mr Frank Modumedi and
Mr Paul Kock
Do you also here in public without any reservations apologise to them for the action done by yourself?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes, I do Sir.

MR BODE: One last question Major Mbatha, did you ever during the course of these years since the day of the incident, ever go to any of the clients as I've indicated to you whether directly or indirectly and conveyed to them your condolences, your regret as to what has happened and sharing the information that you were actually involved?  Did you every do any of these actions?

LAURENS MBATHA: Sir, as I've said actually starting from the family of the deceased that for one actually to address it in that fashion, my concern would be at that time because the loss of actually Mokone was the most striking one and it was a moment that when that time comes starting from the family of the deceased, to Jean Nel, Mr Cassandra and all the members who were there, to convey my apology to them and I would have liked that it should be done in public.

MR BODE: No further questions Mr Chairperson, thank  you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BODE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  Major Mbatha, in your application page 3 thereof, paragraph 10(a) - I'll read the question to you, it states
"State political objective sought to be achieved"
And in your answer you said:
"Political objective was not actually achieved"
Can you see that?

LAURENS MBATHA: Yes, Sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Right.  Now, you have not stated the political objective sought to be achieved in your application, instead you refer to the annexure which is page 8 of your application - page 8 and 9, also in that annexure the political objective has not been outlined.  Can you tell this Committee what was the political objective?