Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

WITNESS:   There was an incident that took one week.  I was taken into an office and they said I should stand against the wall.  They put a bag on my head and I can't remember what happened.  They took me outside and they took me into the car.  I was made to lie at the back seat of the car, and one of them was trampling on my shoulders and one of them trampling on my legs.  I didn't know where they were taking me to, but I could feel I was now out of the prison, out of the cell.  I can't remember what place did they take me to.  They took my clothes off and they took something.  They put - on my every finger they put a cord, and my hands and my feet were tied together.  They even connected this to my private parts.  I don't wish to go through the pain I felt on that day.  They did this on different days.  They would kick you, they would assault you, and they would say to you, "Tell us the truth."  They would ask us do we know anything about the ANC people.  They asked us about the MK soldiers.  They asked us about the hand grenades.  They would ask us, "Where have you put the hand grenades?"  It was really difficult.  From there I wasn't allowed to sleep for a week.  I would be interrogated.  They would come in shifts.  Each shift would take close to seven hours.  From Monday to Saturday I couldn't sleep.  There were times I could remember well I fell.  Not because of the assault but because I wanted to sleep.

MR NTEBEZA: Mandla, what did they say during those times?  The Government of the day said no, we cannot allow such things to happen.  Now, what do you request?

WITNESS:   We only heard that the security were in control of everything.  If they felt that they don't want you to see the Magistrate or the lawyer you would not see the Magistrate, you would not see the lawyer.  Because they even controlled the doctors.  I used to report to the doctors who visited me, but nothing took place.  They would say, "Tell the police the truth, they will leave you."  These are the so-called district surgeons.

MR NTEBEZA: There was a time in this whole incident that you wanted to go to court.  Have you been to the court?

WITNESS:  Yes.  Yes, I was charged.  They said it was a Terrorism Act.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, that's right.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible) ... in this country, was it not?

WITNESS:  Yes, that's true.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible - end of Side B, Tape 3)

WITNESS:   There was a R10 000,00 bail that had already been paid.  I wasn't allowed to meet more than one person, I wasn't allowed to attend meetings, I wasn't allowed to - the restrictions said I had to stay at home.

MR NTEBEZA: So you were from another prison to a bigger prison.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's right.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible) ... of those charges?

WITNESS:   At the end it was discovered that the evidence from the Government side did not exist and I was discharged.

MR NTEBEZA: (Inaudible) ... which you have described so graphically, what effect did they have on you, and your memory and everything else, if any?

WITNESS:   I have to say that I was affected in a way.  Before I was arrested I used to write things down.  If you would give me a number I wouldn't even write it, I would keep it in my memory, but after having been tortured my mind is not working perfectly well.  I have to write everything in details.

MR NTEBEZA: Now, what would you like the Commission to do if it was possible for it to do anything at all?

WITNESS:   Maybe it would be very nice for the Commission to investigate who these people are.  I want to know why did they do such horrific things, because at the end I still don't know who they are.  I know the people who chased me, the people who detained me, but the ones who really assaulted me I don't know who they are.  I feel this was the violation of human rights.

MR LAX: Mandla, while you were in detention what sort of food were you given?

WITNESS:   While in detention we used to eat all kinds of food.  It wasn't the normal food.  Soft porridge, samp mealies.  They were just normal food, but prepared in a different way.  You know, we would stay for two weeks without food, because we used to tell the authorities that we are not satisfied with the food.

MR LAX: Besides your memory, and problems with your memory, have you suffered any other ill effects from this torture and harassment while you were in prison?

WITNESS:   I have to say the other thing that really disturbed me, my right leg cannot function properly because I am now forced to use a flat shoe.  I can't wear any shoe that has a heel.  Some of the exercises I cannot do as I used to.  Even the football that I used to play I cannot play now.

MR LAX: What are you doing now, Mr Cele?  Are you working, or what are you doing actually?   I was asking are you employed now?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.  I am working for the municipality union affiliated to COSATU.

MR LAX: I have a very sensitive question.  Are you married?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am married.

MR LAX: Now, this torture, how did it affect you?

WITNESS:   I have to say from my family's side I used to be a very patient person, but I cannot do that now.  I get angry very quickly.

KHOZA MGOJO: I am going to ask a few questions, very short questions.  I heard you saying you were arrested in Durban but the police were from Newcastle.  Were you used to being followed by the police?

WITNESS:   Everything that I did the police would be after me.

KHOZA MGOJO: Another short question.  During your detention when did your family know that you are detained?

WITNESS:   They only knew after eight months that I was in gaol.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who informed them?

WITNESS:   They heard that from the lawyers, because we went to the Legal Resources.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you go to the doctors to get any medical certificate thereafter?

WITNESS:   Yes, there are doctors that I went to, two of them in 'Maritzburg, and the other one here in Durban.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did they give you certificates?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did.

KHOZA MGOJO: Could I start by just following up on that last question asked by Dr Mgojo?  Would it be possible for you to remember the names of the medical doctors who saw you after you came out of prison?

WITNESS:   Even if it's not so easy the one I can remember was Dr Diliza Umjee(?).

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much.  And the names of the lawyers who represented you when you were charged and were found not guilty?

WITNESS:   Mlaba and Shezi's company represented me.

KHOZA MGOJO: You mentioned that whilst you were being tortured from time to time you were visited by district surgeons or doctors, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's right.

KHOZA MGOJO: Would you be able to remember who those doctors were, or is that asking too much?

WITNESS:   I still remember their names.  One of them it's Dr Kotze, but all of them are based at Utrecht.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you very much, Mandla.  We don't have words any more to keep on saying we're really sorry and we sympathise with you.  We thank you that you managed to come.  We only ask God to really bless you, to embrace you with His grace.  We want to thank you for appearing before the Commission, and we are very glad that you brought us freedom together with other people.  Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Welcome to you in this first afternoon session.  We are very grateful to you for coming.  The story that you are going to tell is one of harassment, assault, arson and shooting, and in particular that concerning the death of your son, Khumbulani Dlamini.  Before you tell us your story I'd be very grateful if you'd stand so that you can take the oath.

JOYCE NOMVUYA MSISAZWE: (Sworn, States)