Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-12

MS VAN DER WALT: What type of training did you receive?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: The first phase of the training was a course in order to get into the Ystergarde.  It was then house penetration, hostage situations, fire and move, knife attacks, etc.  I was then qualified.  If you are then qualified, you will then be considered for further sophisticated training, that is about guerrilla warfare etc.

MS VAN DER WALT: How did you see this guerrilla warfare?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: It was actions by small groups, called cells.  It could be between two to twelve, to thirteen people.  It is a hit and retreat movement, you go out, you do your thing and come back.  And then again disperse amongst the ordinary people, it was the unit that acted in a conventional way, it was members who had no visible signs or they acted  ...

CHAIRPERSON: What are we busy with, is this an expert on guerrilla warfare or what?

MS VAN DER WALT: No, I will get to the point directly.
	You heard during the evidence that was led, that the applicants mentioned that a revolution would begin.  You as a confidant of the AWB leader, did you at any stage know about the revolution?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: It is true.

MS VAN DER WALT: And when or how would this revolution begin, would it occur on a certain day or start on a certain day?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No, it would come from what happened at the World Trade Centre where Mr Terreblanche said that all negotiations is finally off the table, and we begin the struggle and the revolution now, it would be a systematic escalation of actions, either bomb explosions or ordinary sabotage, arson, anything in that line, in order - the ANC or the PAC enemy, to attack them.

MS VAN DER WALT: During December 1993, did you have anything to do with instructions that were given?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes.  I had a special task and other members were also tasked, I don't know who they were, in order to eliminate head figures, for example Nelson Mandela during that period, to eliminate him.

MS VAN DER WALT: That was not executed?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No, because the weaponry was an RPG missile and it was not used.

MS VAN DER WALT: Gen Oelofse, did you know him during the period when you were at the AWB?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: That is correct yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: After you were arrested, did you at any stage have something to do with him?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: That is correct, yes.  He came to visit us in prison.

MS VAN DER WALT: Yes, what was your feeling at that stage, that is now he came to visit you in prison, that was after you were arrested for the bomb attacks, what was your feeling at that stage towards the AWB and the Generals in Staff?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: I did not like them, I to an extent hated them because they have put the goals, set the goals and the people then went further and when we acted on that, the Generals together with Eugene Terreblanche, they ran away like dogs and they left the people in prison.

MS VAN DER WALT: When you saw Japie Oelofse in prison, did he visit you alone?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No, it was the Generals in Staff, or some of them, with him.  Mr Terreblanche was also there.

MS VAN DER WALT: The feeling that you had towards the AWB, did you convey that to them?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes, I did.  I asked them what was their plan and their strategy for the future.  If they did not want to continue with the struggle, I would continue, they must just give me a chance and they must help me to get out of prison.

MS VAN DER WALT: Is it correct that Gen Japie Oelofse then called you to the side?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes, in the one corner he confidentially told me that I must not be worried, that he is busy planning our release and further plans would be made to release us.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did he say anything about the applicants, those applicants who has appeared in front of the Committee today?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes, I confronted him and asked him why do they not do something, why did they leave us alone?  He told us that his people did work, all that - the thing that he held against them was that they did not shoot or kill everyone.

MS VAN DER WALT: I have no further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: No questions, thank you.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Knoetze?

MR KNOETZE: No questions, thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR KNOETZE: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dreyer?

MR DREYER: Mr Myburgh, regarding the last part of your evidence, the matter regarding the fact that they were sorry that they were not killed, do I understand that this is a discussion where only you and Mr Oelofse were present?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: That is correct, there were other people in that room.

MR DREYER: Is there anybody else who was present, who could have heard what you said and which you referred to in your evidence, that they worked with the men and that they are sorry that not all of them were killed?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No.

MR DREYER: I will put it to you sir, that you have just made it up, that this discussion did not take place.  And that you
exclusively make this statement in order to give vent of what you felt in general, was or to the former top structure of the AWB as you expressed it, with antagonism namely that they ran away like dogs while you were in jail.
	I will put it to you that that is what you said, that was born from that antagonism and that you just made that up.

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: I have got nothing to make up.  If he is too bad or too pathetic to come and give evidence here, it is not my fault.

MR DREYER: Were you present when any instructions were given to his people?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No, unfortunately not.

MR DREYER: If you were not present, how do you know about these instructions and what the nature of them would be?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: The people would not have acted on their own initiative.

MR DREYER: Mr Myburgh, I do not know what your military background is, but let me ask you the following.  Do you know of any examples in the military history, not just this country but the military history of the world that says that military task will be executed without any order, also people misunderstood orders and that in the heat of the moment they could have taken it up and then acted on their own conviction?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: It does not happen very often.

MR DREYER: But you do say that it might have happened?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes, sometimes.

MR DREYER: Let me ask you the following, let us say - consider that there wasn't an instruction like this and that Mr Kloppers, whatever he planned with his group, let us say that there was a full scale follow, that there were activities that followed on this and that Mr Kloppers within the organisation of AWB would have been promoted?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: No, not if he acted without orders, he would have been thrown out of the organisation.

MR DREYER: Even if it was advantageous to the principles of the AWB?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: It would have shown that they are not doing their duties and not following orders.

MR DREYER: Good.  May I ask you what do you say about this newspaper report that was on behalf of the applicants, given in or submitted, what was published later on regarding this whole so-called onslaught of the AWB?
	I do not know what the Exhibit number is, maybe someone could help me.  I am referring to Exhibit 2.  A newspaper report that appeared in March, do you carry any knowledge of this?

ABRAHAM LIEBRECHT MYBURGH: Yes, I see it in front of me now.

MR DREYER: I would like to ask you then, you gave evidence here that you had contact with Eugene Terreblanche and other of the Generals in Staff, that you lived and worked with them?