Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-04

MR MACADAM: 2B down", it means you have to lie down on the ground on your stomach quickly.  When they say, "Stand on your foot", it means you must be up.  That is the march.  And also you are taught about firearms.  You should know that there is an AK-47 and you should know this falls under this particular category, for example like machine guns, and also that this belongs to pistols - the pistol category and the mortar - the mortar category you have to know.  And the other different types of explosives.  Category of hand grenades.  However you should know they might be different.  You should know this is a hand grenade.  This is the basic I'm referring to.  It gives you the limited information about the life in the military and above that it helps you to be conscious to know that a slight mistake that you make does not only injure you, however, it could injure the whole group, and it also teaches you to be quick in whatever you're doing and teaches you to be alert, to think positively and to be vigilant and be very observant.  And also to know that the lives of all the people who work with you depends on your intelligence and your actions.  That's the kind of basic training that we got.

MR MACADAM: During that ... [break in recording] ... were you and the other trainees issued with any weapons that you would yourself carry?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

MR MACADAM: What were you issued with at this basic stage?

WITNESS:  If I remember well, during the basic we were given firearms like AK-47, a Tokarev pistol and that's all.  We continued to learn more about the others, but these were the ones that we kept in our tents where we were sleeping.  They were not kept in the other armaments - in the

MR MACADAM: /armaments store

MR MACADAM: 2B armaments store rooms.  Therefore we had these two with us.

MR MACADAM: Were they loaded with live ammunition or not?

WITNESS:  Yes, we were given the magazines aside.  I will say we were already trained how to load the firearms and also how to strip it - to take out the base of the magazine, the spring and the filling plate, and how to clean them and assemble the rifle.  Also to load it and to know the position of ammunition, we were taught during the basic training.  Therefore they were given to us and we kept them.

MR MACADAM: Were you shown how to shoot them - to actually fire them yourselves?

WITNESS:   Even if we didn't see that during our experience in the training we learnt more about that on second things, which was called, "Advanced course".  That's where we were deep into the practicalities and we went to the shooting range, where you were showed as to how to use a firearm.

MR MACADAM: Can you proceed to tell us then more details of this advanced stage which, it appears, followed your basic training.  What happened at that stage?

WITNESS:   That's where the training started to intensify.  There are so many things that were taught during the advance phase.  However, all the trainings were differentiated by names which were named in relation to what we were doing.  For example, if I remember well, there was a phase called, "Fire and movements", where you have to be taught as to how you work with a partner.  It is called the, "Buddy/buddy system".  You are taught that in the military you are not supposed to work alone.  You work with a partner at all times.  You have to jump over tyres which

MR MACADAM: /were built.

MR MACADAM: 2B were built.  When you get out of them you fall into a cell, into a pit, which was dug.  When you roll into the pit a live bullet will be fired over your head and a small grenade, which is different colours, will be thrown at you.  While you are still under the smoke, whether the green or orange smoke, you will find a barbed wire which stops you or barricades the way.  You must find a way to cross that barbed wire.  After crossing the barbed wire they will throw thunderflashes, which will explode and cause a lot of commotion, and also throw dummy hand grenades.  If you manage to survive those in front of you there will be another obstacle which you will have to overcome.  After managing through you will find a target on the other side which you have to shoot.  You will use one of the methods which you were taught - method like two quick kill, method like deliberate fire, method like snap fire.  And there are so many different kinds of shooting methods, which were taught, and also the positions of shooting.  There is lying position - those are the positions of shooting.  There is kneeling position, there is standing position.  There are so many to mention.

MR MACADAM: Did they explain to you what the purpose of teaching you all this shooting was aimed at?  Whether there was a specific goal that had to be achieved?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.  From the beginning of the training, it was always insisted that we should - that we would protect the Government of the time, that we be a hindrance to the liberation movement, that no one should succeed to take over our country.  We were also given examples of countries where communists managed to fight and take over such countries.  The countries which were referred to us

MR MACADAM: /by our

MR MACADAM: 2B by our instructors, they mentioned numerous countries like Ethiopia, Uganda, Mozambique and many, many other countries.  They didn't only mention those names or countries, they also showed us videos, which portrayed the poverty in such countries, and we really discovered or saw that these countries were living under poverty.  We saw the children in those countries with big heads, with ribs which you can count, with flat stomachs, with small thighs and legs.  We could see a lot of ... (inaudible) ... lying down on the ground.  We would see churches destroyed into rubble, big cities which were all brought down to rubble, and they were telling us that all these things that we are seeing those are the countries where communists have succeeded in furthering their views.  They also gave us a briefing about Karl Marx, about Lenin, about Stalin during the German wars, I would say.  All that gave us the impression that if we allow that particular situation the communists want to happen to our country really we have to answer questions to our grandchildren as to how we allowed communists to take over the country.  There was only one purpose, it was that as soon as we came out of the training to go back and fight and eliminate the ANC, to protect our country from falling into the same train as the other countries which were shown in the videos, that such things mustn't happen in our country.  Because we were told that the ANC have signed contracts with the communist countries, that as soon as they succeed in their struggle the communist countries will have a share - a communal share in our country.  This is the kind of situation that we were trying to prevent from prevailing.  Even if we knew that we were oppressed by the whites,

MR MACADAM: /however, that

MR MACADAM: 2B however, that makes us feel that it's better to live with the oppression by the white people, however, prevent the situation of communism not to prevail or happen to our country.

MR MACADAM: ... [Break in recording] ... that you had to protect or defend your Government from this taking place.  Can you tell us specifically how - what form that defence would take?