Amnesty Hearings — Potchefstroom — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Can we then say that with the death of David Mayeko,  who you have told this Committee that he was the
leader of this vigilante group, you managed as the self-defence unit, you managed to restore peace and stability.

UNKNOWN: Yes, peace prevailed after his death, and as I have already indicated, that we went to the meeting to  discuss that there should be peace amongst people of Khutsong.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, I thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV DLAVANE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, you can go.
	Mr Mpshe, members of the Committee feel that we should  take a break at this stage .... if it hasn't already been obtained.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, the record has not been obtained.  I have just caused copies to be made of the investigation report to me and these copies will be tabled in that it is stated that even the case docket has disappeared, but I am going to table that when the Committee resumes.

JUDGE WILSON: In this case the docket has disappeared?  What about the Judge's judgment?  Has any enquiry been made if a copy of that is available?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: (Inaudible)

JUDGE WILSON: Was it?  I say this because I have changed ....(intervention).

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It was in the  Circuit Court, Potchefstroom Circuit Court.  I will endeavour to find out if anything can be found.  We will just take a drive to go and check.  And a  report  will be given thereafter.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee will adjourn now and resume at a
2	quarter/...
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quarter to two. 
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, the applicant before you is Johnson Themba Ncube.  Johnson will be speaking Xhosa.  May he be sworn in, please

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: s s

UNKNOWN: Mr Ncube, in the period of 1990 you were a member  of the ANC Youth League, Khutsong, is that correct?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: And you served in your  capacity as a member of the self-defence unit of that organisation as well, is that so?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: Mr Ncube, I appeal to you now to listen  very carefully.   Answer the questions as  they may be asked.  You were yourself and your co-accused Faltein, were convicted and sentenced for having committed an act of murder, one, two attempted  murder charges, robbery, and malicious damage to property, that is yourself.

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: Were they tried together?  As I understood it, the previous applicant was charged only with murder and two attempted murders.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, the applicant was charged with applicant  No 1 only in the case of murder and two  attempted murder cases.  The case of malicious damage to property and robbery was tried in the Regional Court.

JUDGE WILSON: You asked him were yourself and your co-accused convicted and charged.  They weren't.  Himself and his co-accused were only convicted and charged with murder
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and two attempted murders,  isn't that so?

UNKNOWN: That is so, and I accept the explanation.

UNKNOWN: And  these offences as they are and as they appear in your application for amnesty, these are the acts that you are now here today asking this Committee to grant you amnesty thereon,  is that correct?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: It is  so.

JUDGE WILSON: Is there a proper application before  us for amnesty in respect of the robbery and the malicious damage to property?

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, I refer to the charges as  they appear on the applicant's application for amnesty and I believe that having been tried and sentenced on these charges the applicant believes that they too do fall under the category that he is applying for amnesty.

JUDGE WILSON: But he is responsible forgiving full details in the application for amnesty and what his application says, "Robbery, can't remember the date committed, but was sentenced on the 29th  May 1991".  He doesn't  tell us where or when it was committed.  He further says on page 3 of  his application "Robbery came to be as a matter of hunger whilst on the run as well as malicious.  PS  A statement in detail will  be enclosed together with this form".  No such statement was enclosed as far as I know.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, I went through the statement of the applicant and I believe from the interpretation thereof that the two  offences of malicious damage to property and robbery were in fact committed at the very same time and they are interlinked with this case of murder.  Thus, I believe the  applicant will be able to expantiate more  when  he gives his  explanation before this Committee.  I will
3	appeal/...
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appeal that he be given the chance to expantiate further on this as he shall be giving his evidence.

UNKNOWN: Mr Ncube, let's start with this case of this murder.  This murder was committed on the 24th December 1990, is it correct?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, it is  correct.

UNKNOWN: And listen to the question very carefully now.  Who did you kill on this date of  the 24th December 1990?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: I killed David Mayeko.

UNKNOWN: The two attempted murder cases, who are these people that you attempted to kill and when was  it?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: It was on the same day I killed David Mayeko.  The other one was Maseko and Daniel Sgoqo.

UNKNOWN: So these two, Maseko and Daniel Sgoqo, were with David Mayeko on the same day and time when you killed Mayeko.

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, it is.

UNKNOWN: To clarify the Committee further, I proceed to this one of malicious damage to property, if I am allowed.  When was this offence committed?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: In 1990.

UNKNOWN: Which property did you damage?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: It was a car that was delivering  - a bakery delivery van and police houses.

UNKNOWN: Now robbery, who did you rob and when?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: I robbed these bakery vans, Blue Ribbon and Delmas because we needed money to help each other as comrades.

UNKNOWN: Now let's go back again to this one of murder. David Mayeko you killed, who was this David Mayeko?  Can you briefly explain that to this Committee.  Who was this David
3	Mayeko/...
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Mayeko who deserved to die?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: David Mayeko is a person that I know, we grew up together.   We used to play football together in the same  street.  We were schooling at Hlangabesa and he was in Pororong(?).  We joined the ANC organisation.  As we joined the ANC David Mayeko was very greedy for money therefore they were bought by the police, the white policemen, so that they can be able to kill activities(sic) in Khutsong.

UNKNOWN: So this David Mayeko, was he David Mayeko who belonged to the vigilante group of Khutsong at the time?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, it is  so.

UNKNOWN: And what did  this David Mayeko do in particular that ultimately led to his death on the 24th December 1990?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: When the comrades were in a rally on our way back he - they will be waiting  for us with the  police on our way back from these rallies and they will be shooting us, disturbing the funerals of the comrades and so on and he killed people who didn't ....(intervention).

UNKNOWN: I am asking what was this David Mayeko doing actually that led ultimately to his death on the 24th December, that is prior to the 24th December?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: David Mayeko was somebody who was harassing the comrades as a whole in Khutsong.  In our rallies they were around shooting people.  On our way back home they will be shooting people and when we were supposed to bury the same people they will be coming in the night to disturb in the  night vigil, shooting.

UNKNOWN: Do you know of any person that you know to have been killed by this David Mayeko and his group?

JOHNSON THEMBA NCUBE: Yes, there is.
3

UNKNOWN: /...
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UNKNOWN: Can you disclose that to the Committee?  Can you mention names of people you say were killed by David Mayeko and  this vigilante group?