Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

COMMISSIONER: I want to say good morning to you, andto welcome you very warmly to the Commission. We are very glad that you tookthe trouble to come to the Commission and to tell your story to our membersof our staff, but now to tell it to the Commission itself and to the peoplewho are in this City hall, and to many more people outside. It's very importantthat people tell stories of what happened to them, whatever that may be, andwe are very grateful to you for coming. You are going to tell us about the timewhen you were in great distress when your own was burnt down, but before youdo that I would like you to please stand for the oath.

THIWE MAGADALENA MHLABENDE: (Sworn, States)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much. Please be seated.Dr Mgojo is going to take over from me and lead you as you tell your story.Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mrs Mhlabende, I want you to relax and tellall what is causing your pain as far as the burning of your house is concerned.Don't fear anything, just say everything. But before I do that can you justtell us about your family, the background about your family?

WITNESS: Can you pleasetell me - say what to do.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you speak Zulu? Okay. If you speak Xhosa you will understandme, because Zulu and Xhosa are close. You will help Mrs - please tell us allthat you went through. Tell us the pain you felt when your house was burnt down,but before you tell us that could you just give us a brief background of your family. Who are you, wheredo you come from, etcetera? This is a very painful experience that you wentthrough, having your house burnt down. Especially if you are a black personit takes a long time for you to rebuild that house .

WITNESS: You have taken quitea long time to build that house, and at the end of the day you have it burntdown. We sympathise with you very much. I request you to tell us who you are,where you are coming from, etcetera. --- My name is Thiwe. I am from Butsabelo.My name is Thiwe. I am from Butsabelo. I was staying at Butsabelo. That wassection K in Butsabelo. They burnt my house in 1993. They started throwingstones at my house. That was in November. It was on a Friday. On a Saturdaywe slept in the house, and the Sunday we slept in the house, and then on Mondaythey threw the petrol bomb. Only the bedroom got burnt. We were able to runaway, but we came back to try and extinguish the flames. All that was in thebedroom got burnt. Thereafter we were sleeping outside because we didn't haveany place to sleep, and we were keeping a vigil as to what was happening. Aweek thereafter my husband, as well as my brother, were staying outside so thatI could get inside and sleep because I was looking after my father-in-law. Theyburnt my place for the third time. That is they heard one of the perpetrators- there are trees in my hard, so he was hiding in the trees. So when he gotin there they don't know how he came in there, they just heard noise in thebushes. When they looked they caught a young man. When they asked him what hewanted he ran away. They chased him. At that time I heard there was some noisebecause I was inside the house. Then I went outside to investigate. Theyasked him who he was. He ran away and they actually chased him. When they gothim they assaulted him. We later called on the police that night. When we calledthe police the police came, but I said they mustn't come into my house becauseI am afraid the Comrades would burn us later and they would also kill my childrenbecause they were burning the houses. The policemen came. They took us to thepolice station. They took this would-be perpetrator to the police station. Wealso went there. My husband opened a docket, but that docket didn't really materialisebecause he did not appear in court. The docket got lost, and my husband wassentenced because they said he had assaulted the would-be perpetrator. Theywere sentenced to two years inside - outside, and one year. They spent six monthsin prison, and nobody was working at that time. They were the breadwinners.I sold my house because I couldn't make ends meet. My husband got out in Julyof that same year. (Pause)

KHOZA MGOJO: Have you finished giving your testimony?

WITNESS: I feel as if Iam suffocating. I am getting dizzy.

KHOZA MGOJO: Bring her forth. (Pause)

WITNESS: It was like that. That's how itwent on. It was very difficult for me to make ends meet. It is still like thateven now when my husband had come out of the prison. I believe I have finished.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you. I'll ask you just a few questions. Please tell meif you can't hear any of the questions. In your statement you said the peoplewho burned your house were Comrades. Who are the Comrades?

WITNESS: It was Mahloand Mainline, as well as Maputhi. No, I am not asking the names, but I am just asking what arethe Comrades? Is it - it's ANC? --- Yes, it's ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO: How old are these people who burned your house down?

WITNESS: Theother one was quite old. The other ones were just juveniles. But they were quitegrown up, but I don't know how to explain their ages. I just know their ages,but ... (incomplete)

KHOZA MGOJO: When you think that amongst all those houses in Butsabelo whydid they choose your house? What do you think was the reason? Did you have analtercation with the Comrades?

WITNESS: My husband never collaborated with them whenthey wanted to arrange or stage stay-aways. We were working and we never wantedto take any part in stay-aways because our bosses were promising us that theywould chuck us away if we don't turn up for work. So we never used to go totheir meetings. Maybe they took offence because we didn't.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement you said your husband was arrested becausehe wanted to revenge. How did he want to revenge?

WITNESS: He was arrested when hewas trying to revenge. He was arrested when they were trying to burn our housefor the third time. The first time they threw stones, the second time on a Mondaythey burnt the house down. A week thereafter I believe - I should think it wason the third week - they had come to try and burn the house down again, butthey couldn't really do it, so my husband got arrested at that stage.

KHOZA MGOJO: We don't seem to be seeing eye to eye. In your statement MsMagdalena it says your husband wanted to revenge. Now what I am trying to say,what was he using when he wanted to revenge that caused him to be arrested? ---He never wanted to revenge. I think the person who wrote the statement did notunderstand me because I speak Xhosa, and the person who was writing the statementspoke Zulu. I'll put it in that way that we didn't actually understand eachother.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Mrs Mhlabende, just to try and clarify thatlast part, I think you mentioned that on the third occasion there was someonehiding in the bushes or in the trees, and who obviously was wanting to attackyour house again, and I think your husband chased him. Did you say that he assaultedhim, and for that reason he was arrested.

WITNESS: (Inaudible)

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible) ... for assault of someone who was trying to attackyour house, and was sentenced for two years, and served for six months in prison.Did the police ever catch the people who tried to burn your house down, or assaultyou or stone your house?

WITNESS: (Inaudible) ... arrested them.

UNKNOWN: They did arrest them? They didn't arrest them?

WITNESS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Your husband was defending the house and he is arrested, andthe people who tried to burn your house go free. Is that what you're tellingus?

WITNESS: Yes, he was arrested for that.

UNKNOWN: One last question. You mentioned that there was a docket thatyour husband must have laid charges against the people who burnt your house.That docket was lost. Who lost the docket?