Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

CHAIRPERSON: Before I welcome Thalitha Sekhaulelo, you are so welcome. You have brought somebody with you.  Are both of them going to speak. We need two headboxes if you could help us with that please, two earphones, thank-you we have that. Do we have Thalitha and Demakatsu with us? Rachel both of you are going to speak so both of you have to take the oath. I'm going to ask that both of you stand please with your hands in the air and I'm going to ask Ms Seroke to conduct the oath.
 MS SEROKE: The story that you are about to tell is the truth and nothing else but the truth so help me God.

MS THALITHA L SEKHAULELO AND RACHEL;: (sworn states)

MR PIET MEIRING;: Thank you so much I would like to hand you over to Dr Randera who will assist you in telling your stories

UNKNOWN: Thalita and Rachel good afternoon, you have come to talk about your son Ronnie who was killed in 1986 by the Bophuthatswana Police in Hammanskraal.  Now both of you made the statement Thalitha in the statement you say it was Rachel who was there who saw the incident but before we get to that perhaps you can tell us about Ronnie, how old he was at the time, what was he doing, what was happening in the area, was he involved in any political organization as such. Was he involved in any political organization.

THALITHA SEKHAULELO: Ronnie is my sister's child. He was a member of COSAS at that time there was a middle school which was recently opened by Zacherema Katleng. At that time Ronnie was not at school because of certain reasons. On the 10th of February at that school there was an unrest by students where they were lodging some complaints. It was around 9 o'clock in the morning, I was day off then, I'm working at Ellerines Furniture Shop in Warmbaths, Ronnie passed with his friends, there were two they were passing next to my house, I called to him, then I said to him come here where are you going. He said to me sister I'm coming back I'm going somewhere down there. I said to him I'm requesting that you should not go there I was highly pregnant, I want to send you to the shop because I was busy with washing. He came to me when he arrived I gave him money that he must go and buy paraffin he went to the shop and bought those things, when he came back I requested him to make tea for me, he went to the kitchen, he did that. We sat under the tree and drank the tea. It was cloudy on that day, after we drank tea he went back to the kitchen and washed the cups and I continued with my washing. After some time a certain child came to me, I don't remember his name well, then he said to me Ronnie Kokalise is calling you, by then at school there was an unrest at school and we are not staying far from that school. When he said Kokalise is calling you I asked that boy what is he calling for they said he is asked to chop some wood then I released him then said when you finish come back I want you to accompany me somewhere. He agreed and then he went, by then it was around 11 o'clock. I was staying with my younger brother who was doing standard seven in that middle school. He was coming home for lunch. After the boy left with Ronnie to chop some woods police vans were passing, there were seven vans at Bedwang Police Stations, we used to call them pigs, they were looking like pigs and this big police vans were passing it was the direction of the school and others were parking next to the bus stop. Ronnie left, when that child came back for break he called me from a distance whilst I was busy washing. He said the police are beating Ronnie.

UNKNOWN: Thalitha just take your time. Can we give her some water to drink. Thalitha are you able to continue?

THALITHA SEKHAULELO: I left my washing then I went to that bus stop this incident was happening at the main bus stop at Severence Gate, at a distance I was seeing police beating with batons and sjamboks and iron bars. When I arrived there they were picking Ronnie to police van. After they throw him to that police van there were three boys a girl and continued with them I passed there and went to that police van the certain policeman passed some aspersions because my reason was just only to see Ronnie.

UNKNOWN: Rachel would like to go elsewhere, does she feel comfortable sitting and listening, she's very, very upset I can see that. Do you think one of the briefers should take Rachel out?   Thank you. Sorry if you could continue Thalitha.

THALITHA SEKHAULELO: When I arrived at that van Ronnie was inside that van and he was lying, his leg was curled as if it is broken and he was wearing tackies and he was wearing a (indistinct) and a lumber and a shirt and a sporty. I picked, I handled his leg and I said to Ronnie, Ronnie then he didn't respond, then I did that again and then he didn't respond.        After that I saw a policeman called Kavambo who spoke me harshly, he said why do you call this boy. I said I should call him I want to find out what you did to him, he said leave that cow then I just stood there then he said I will hit your stomach that you should give birth now, then I held my ground whilst they were still busy beating those people the rain started to rain. They assaulted  those three boys, kicking them and put them in the police van again and they took them. It was raining now  then I went back home at around 4 o'clock I said I should go to my aunt because Ronnie's mother was working, to find out    what was happening to Ronnie otherwise we should divide means to find out.
 When I arrived there Ronnie's sisters were cooking and they were dishing out, they were saying we should dish out for Ronnie he'll come back and eat, my aunt said don't dish out for him because you don't know what time he'll be back it was round 7 then I went back home. I slept, tomorrow morning around 6 o'clock I went back to my aunt to find out what was happening and phoned Ronnie's mother to come. At my aunt's gate I found two people standing there I didn't greet them, when they saw me they bowed down their heads then I went into my aunt's home I greeted my aunt then I said what are they saying? Then he said Ronnie has died. Then they said I should go and phone Ronnie's mother that he should come home and phone other relatives to come. At that time when I left the police came. This thing happened on Monday, on Tuesday is then that we informed Ronnie's mother that their is a problem. They took my aunt to that place, what was surprising is that those police, when they came to tell us that Ronnie has died, they were telling us limitations that they don't want people to attend the funeral and that Ronnie should be buried by the family only and that he should not be buried during the week, during the weekend. On the day when they said they are bringing him, we were preparing for to bury him on the weekend. Then they said he should be buried on Wednesday. It was only the family which attended the funeral. In Ronnie's clothes, they were not complete, other clothes have disappeared. They didn't allow us when they brought the corpse that we should see it. The car which was carrying the corpse was full of blood. They asked my sister that they should go and sit on the blood and that Ronnie is not going to be brought in the house. I don't as well if it was Ronnie or not. They were harsh and the time when we were burying Ronnie, they came with there different cars. My sisters house was surrounded by the police. 
 During that time the family attended the funeral with that van, with the coffin on that blood and my sister was staying on that blood, we didn't know whose blood was that. That's all.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Thalitha. It's still very painful, this whole experience. Does Rachel want to say anything - your sister? Oh sorry, that's Rachel. My apologies. Does Thalitha want to say anything?