Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I decided to deal with all these things because most of the things took place while I was at work. I decided to combine all these incidents.

MR KNIGHT: If I can just refer you to page 48 of the record that is paginated 48 at paragraph 28. You will see the date reflected there is 1996. Is this correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is very wrong. It is not right. The date is wrong.

MR KNIGHT: The date is incorrect. It should actually read 1985?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it is 1985.

MR KNIGHT: Now on page 46 of the application at paragraph 12 you say that
"Once I became a full member of the SAP I was provided with new identity documents. I was asked by Colonel Eugene de Kock to choose a name and then I chose the name 'Thulani Basil Mavusu.' I was issued with a false identity book as well as a new police identity certificate. No particular explanations was given to me for the change of my identity."
Now is it correct that your name only changed after the murder of the deceased in this matter and that you had become a police officer long before this? Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is true.

MR KNIGHT: This paragraph is not entirely correct? In the sense that it is placed out of context. What happened, happened but not at the time that you were a constable. It happened after the murder of the deceased in this matter. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Mr Chairman perhaps it might be a convenient time to the other amendment - not the amendment but the paper I gave in with the amended papers yesterday was a photostat copy of the identity document. And perhaps one could enter this now and just give it an exhibit number for the sake of convenience.

CHAIRPERSON: Shall we perhaps mark the amended application Exhibit E and the photocopy of the first page of the applicant's identity document shall then be entered as Exhibit F.

MR KNIGHT: As it pleases the Commission Mr Chairman if I may proceed? Now I am showing you this photostat copy of your identity book. Does that reflect your correct name? The name that you were born with?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No this is not my real name.

MR KNIGHT: This is a copy of the identity document that you received?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it is a copy of the identity document that I received.

MR KNIGHT: And you received this after the death of the deceased in this matter?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I got it after his death.

MR KNIGHT: Now moving towards the incident itself. At that time in 1985 the Transkei was an independent country. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it was independent. Transkei was independent.

MR KNIGHT: Did Vlakplaas have jurisdiction, the South African police officers have jurisdiction to operate in the Transkei or any of the other homelands that were independent?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As our senior officers the head quarters, we don't know how do they used to operate because we would enter Transkei, they would talk. I don't know how but we would come and enter Transkei.

MR KNIGHT: Yes but did you as a South African police officer have the right to arrest a foreign national in a foreign country?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No.

MR KNIGHT: No. And that was the purpose why - if one were to take the Transkei incident - why it was necessary to have a Transkei policeman supporting yourself? Or being in your group for him to effect the arrest if there was an arrest to be made?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Now is it true to say that in many instances people were arrested and then handed over to South African authorities on South African soil?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Now when the Vlakplaas people went into the Transkei did you use false registration numbers on the motor vehicles?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we were using false registration numbers.

MR KNIGHT: Was this as a matter of course? In other word did it always happen?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes most of the times it happened that way because if we were coming to Transkei we would use the Transkei registration number.

MR KNIGHT: Now at your level of seniority at Vlakplaas you would have been supplied with the false number plates. It wouldn't have been your job to think about it and say: "No we need false plates." It would have been told to you. Or was it just a common practice that developed?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It was something common at the time.

MR KNIGHT: Now the day before the murder in this matter took place you were at Vlakplaas. Am I correct in that or did you come down a little while earlier? Or let me rather rephrase the question. You were sent from Vlakplaas to a place in the Eastern Cape called Barkley East. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Whilst in Barkley East you were introduced to certain Transkei policemen. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes in Barkley East we got certain white policemen from the Barkley East with two African men.

MR KNIGHT: Yes and was one of the Transkei policemen the first applicant, Mr Dandala?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes he was also there.

MR KNIGHT: Now were there, how did you come up with the name? How did it come about that you were instructed to arrest and abduct Mr Ndondo, the deceased in this matter?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: When we arrived there at Badplaas their commander told us it was a person. It was not one person. There was a list of names and there was also a photo album where there were certain people who were said to be dangerous in the Transkei. So we would recognise some of them. He was also among those people that we had managed to recognise. There was another girl also who was in our company who knew him. Who was with him.

MR KNIGHT: So it wasn't as if sitting at Vlakplaas you got the order go and arrest the deceased, Mr Ndondo. The decision to go and look for him and arrest him came after he had been identified in the so-called terrorist albums that you had looked through together with your colleague Shosha at the time and it was her that recognised. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I don't get your question.

MR KNIGHT: Simply when you were at Vlakplaas before you left for Barkley East it wasn't told to you then you are going to go and abduct the deceased or to arrest the deceased. You are going to go to Barkley East. It is at Barkley East that you look at the so-called terrorist albums and you then get the photograph there. So the planning to arrest Ndondo at that time was made in Barkley East. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that was decided in Barkley East.

CHAIRPERSON: The orders that you had received when you were in Vlakplaas were these the orders simply to go to Barkley East and assist the security branch in Transkei in apprehending the insurgents?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: When we left the Vlakplaas we knew that we were going to work with the Transkeian police because we were going to the Transkei. We met them at the Barkley East where we started with our journey.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the security branch in Transkei was then going to indicate to you the kind of assistance that they required from you?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you. Mr Knight the time now, my watch says it is about a minute or two to one 'o clock. You may continue but when it is convenient would you?

MR KNIGHT: Mr Chairman it would be a convenient time now presently to take the adjournment.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay we will take the lunch adjournment and return at two 'o clock.

COMMITTEE ADJOURNS: .
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabalala may I remind you that you are still under oath.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you may continue Mr Knight.