Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-07

MR MACADAM: 1B we would be convicted for such crimes - crimes relating to robbery and other things.  Unfortunately, we are not involved in such kind of crimes.  We went to report this matter at Ulundi to Captain Langeni.  Captain Langeni asked me about this Nathi, as to who he was and what we knew about him.  We explained to him that we don't know Nathi.  It became clear that he is an ANC member, who is furthering the aims and objectives of the ANC.  The first instruction that we got with regard to Nathi was that we, as police, we should go and investigate, to find out the root cause of this, to find out where he comes from, to which organization does he belong, because we didn't even know his affiliation.  We did that.  We had to contact different and many sources of information.  One of them was Andile Cele, who has passed away.  We ended up cracking the root cause of knowing Nathi.  We found that he was a member of the ANC and even his relatives were working for organizations like COSATU, who were aligned to ANC.  At times, when we went there, we would find cars which we knew belonging to Bongani and other members of the ANC.  They were at his home, and we came to realize that he's really doing something, not that the arrest of Romeo is not just the kind of job that he did, the only job that he did.  I personally - Captain Langeni sent me alone as to whether maybe they were fighting over a woman and I discovered that there wasn't such a thing.  After having discovered this information from Andile Cele about Nathi's involvement and discovering as to the aim to eliminate our syndicate, which was going to disturb the Inkatha power, a time came when we had to be called to Ulundi with Romeo.  We went to Madlanduna.  We didn't

MR MACADAM: /start with

MR MACADAM: 1B start with Madlanduna, we went to houses known as Emofloteni, where the Legislative members stay, and we met Mrs Mbuyazi, who was at Ulundi at that time, and she was working at Nongoma as a teacher.  We took a small car from her, which was a Toyota.  We used the car to go to Daluxolo Luthuli.  Although it was not usually said, His Highness wanted to see us.  That was Prince Gideon Zulu.  At that time he was the Minister of Pensions.  Madlanduna called the Minister and the Minister recommended that we should come to see him.  I, together with Madlanduna and Romeo, went to his house and, to be brief, I will say that at the Minister's house we had a meeting.  We were outside the house, not inside.  We were just on the lawn.  In that meeting there was Umtwanakaminyo - that's Prince Gideon Zulu - his driver by the name of Nyawose, Romeo, Madlanduna and myself and Prince Gideon's son.  I don't know his name.  He was there.  That's where we discussed the arrest of Romeo.  The Minister got angered by this and he said that this ANC, even though we try all ways to frighten them, they don't get frightened.  Therefore, he suggested that Nathi should take the first bus, and he was angry, saying, "Why did you leave him for such a long time?", and Madlanduna also turned against us in front of the Minister, saying, "I don't know why these guys are so relaxed, doing nothing".  We explained that Nathi is not staying at that place.  He is now staying in Durban, and we don't have cars to go and do the work and we can't use our own cars.  The Minister said he'll organize a car.

MR MACADAM: Sorry to interrupt you at this stage.  When you say the Minister said he would organize a car, can you just tell us which Minister that was.  What portfolio did he

MR MACADAM: /hold?   ---

MR MACADAM: 1B hold?

WITNESS:   He said he's going to organize a car.  That was Prince Gideon Zulu, the one that I've already explained was a Minister of Pensions and Welfare in the KwaZulu Government.  After having told him about the problem of transport to Durban, he said he will personally organize a car for us to go to Durban, in order to make Nathi to take the first bus.  He got into the house and made a telephone call.  He said he was going to contact Mathe to find out if he can't organize a car.  When coming out from the house he didn't say we should go and collect a car from Mathe, he said we should go to Robert Mzimela's house.  Robert Mzimela was a Secretary of the Legislature in KwaZulu.  He said he had already talked to Mzimela and he will give us a car.  Before we leave he said we have to combine this task of eliminating Nathi with another task which we were supposed to do at Eshowe.  He said Eshowe, in the place called Gezinsila, it's rotten because of one person who is a male nurse with the surname Nxumalo.  He mentioned his name.  However, I don't remember.  I only remember the surname, which he said it was Nxumalo.  He said he himself, together with Nyawose, are getting attacked at that place because of this one person who was a male nurse with the surname of Nxumalo, and he said we have to go to Eshowe and we'll be given information there from one of his sons, and he said we were going to collect a firearm from his son at Eshowe.  However, we didn't get such a firearm at Eshowe.  We left and went to Robert Mzimela's house.  Nyawose was present, together with Madlanduna.  Mzimela gave us ... [end of tape] ...

MR MACADAM: 2A ... saying that we should handle the car with care and he said he knew that police can drive and, when driving cars,

MR MACADAM: /they drive as

MR MACADAM: 2A they drive as if like they are driving vans.  We promised that we won't drive this one as though we are driving a van and we will treat it with care.  We drove the two cars, went back and dropped Madlanduna at his house and we took the car to Mrs Mbuyazi at the flats.  We got into the Monza which was given to us, and we left, and we made it possible to kill Nathi, using that very same car which was given to us.

MR MACADAM: If we can proceed further, what did you then do?

WITNESS:   The someone from Eshowe, this Nxumalo, the male nurse, we tried to attack him.  There was violence at Gezinsila.  Soldiers were deployed in the area.  The SAP were deployed in the area and also the KwaZulu Police, and the Nyalas, which were armoured vehicles, and we discovered that the whole place was patrolled by securities.  Therefore unlawful firearms like AK-47 we couldn't smuggle then in and out of the place easily.  We had to go and leave them with one teacher with the surname of Mbambo at Gezinsila.  We drove and met him.  He was driving a blue Corolla.  He was driving towards the hospital and he had some young boys inside the car.  We dropped Hlongwane and Israel to run to the front of him. I would say he was very lucky because at that moment soldiers came and the whole mission was ... (inaudible) ... and we left him and went back to - went to Nathi, and that was at night.  We found Nathi.  We took him.  We came back with him.  We found him at Brickfield in an Indian area.  However, we had a problem on the way, because on our way it was difficult for us to ask him as to who was involved in the structure, as to who did this and who came with the suggestions, so we couldn't get information from

MR MACADAM: /him.  We

MR MACADAM: 2A him.  We were not able to ask him this because at the time when we took him from Brickfield we had to hide from him that he was going to be killed.  We told him that we are investigating in which he was involved.  It was a case which involved a car and a case or the place where it happened it was at Esikhaweni.  We told him to take the logbook and he took the logbook, and we left with him, and under that impression we left with him while we knew that we had our own intentions, and it so happened that we had to ask him on the way about his strategies.

INTERPRETER: Sorry, he's saying they didn't get a chance to ask him because he was thinking that they were police.