Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: I am still coming there sir.  Chief Mdutshane from the day of the meeting, I asked permission from him to tell the people and to teach the people about the ANC, but after that he changed his mind.  He said that people are not forced to joint the ANC, there are other organisations such as Inkatha, Mangope and Qgozo who just killed people.
 People had a right to join the Qgozo organisation and the Inkatha.  When the meeting was over, people wanted to join the ANC and they joined the ANC.  After a few days we asked permission from him to have a meeting in the tribal authority premises.  He refused at first, but he eventually agreed.
 When we were having this meeting, he came, he attended
the meeting and he told us that he does not want ANC in his village because the ANC members wanted to overthrow him.
 One day he gave someone to four members of the ANC.

REV XUNDU: I want us not to explain in detail, I can see that this thing, it showed that the police were supporting the Chief.

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Mr Chairperson, on the 13th Chief Mdutshane called a meeting, Nxinilifo was also invited to attend that meeting, but he was not there.  That day was the day when people attacked members of the ANC, Xolisile Vugiti died on that day, it was on the 13th.
 People were beaten, we ran away, we are not sure whether he died on the 13th, but we saw him the following day, that he is dead.
 The police came to our village, they arrested all of us.  Mdutshane said that we are the ones who killed this person.  
 The case still continues, it is still on, it is in the supreme court.

REV XUNDU: What happened on the 14th?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: On the 14th, it is the day when people's houses burnt down, we were also arrested on the 14th.

REV XUNDU: Whose bakkie burnt down?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: It was my bakkie, it also burnt down while I was in prison on the 14th.  We were arrested here, I was detained here in Lusikisiki.  On Monday, the police came to tell me that my car burnt down.

REV XUNDU: Was there a court case?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Yes.  There was a court case, but the case was dismissed because witnesses wouldn't come and testify.

REV XUNDU: Where is Nxinilifo?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: I don't know where Nxinilifo is as we are here today.  I heard that he was in Bisho, Bloemfontein, Pretoria, Cape Town, I am not sure exactly where he is.

REV XUNDU: What are your requests to this Commission, or what would you advise the Commission to do?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Mr Chairperson, because I was ill-treated I would like the Commission to compensate me with my bakkie.  There are many things that happened to me because since then my life changed.

REV XUNDU: Your house was also burnt down?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Yes, my house was burnt down and my crops were destroyed.

REV XUNDU: According to your view now, is there still a conflict between your Chief and the people who are toyi-toying?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Yes, sir, our Chief is against us.  He doesn't like us but we are trying to tolerate this.  After Xolisile died, three other people from our village, the same village died.  The ones that were mentioned died in 1994 and they were killed by the people supporting the Chief.
 After that, they would cut certain parts of their bodies.  And Mr Chairperson, I think if the Commission can try and help us to bring him forward you can see who is telling the truth.
 It would be better if he was here to tell the truth to the Commission.  We are not scared, but we don't want to revenge, but he is treating us badly.

REV XUNDU: In other words you want the Commission to help you in your village?  The Chairperson is here to listen to all your grievances, he will try by all means to take steps in order to bring peace in your village, is that all?
Thank you, I will hand over to the Chairperson.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Before asking a few questions, I noticed that what is being said today is similar to what was said yesterday.
 There was one Chief's name that was mentioned yesterday and another one is mentioned today.  Let me start by asking this question.  The conflict between the conflict and the Chief in your village, according to your view is this happening in other villages as well?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: This is happening in all villages because the Chiefs are against the Government, the ANC Government.  They are against the leaders of the ANC.  This is happening in all villages, there is conflict between people and the Chiefs.

ADV SANDI: Are all Chiefs from all villages members of the CONTRALESA?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: All the Chiefs, especially in the Pondoland under Chief Nonkonyane, they belong to, they are members of    CONTRALESA.  They are against the ANC Government.

ADV SANDI: Nxinilifo that you have mentioned, is he a member of CONTRALESA?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: I would like to answer this way.  It is not clear now whether he is a member of CONTRALESA or what because he is not ruling at the moment.
 If he was ruling or if he was a Chief, we would know whether he was a CONTRALESA  or what.

ADV SANDI: The conflict you mentioned in your village, did CONTRALESA try to solve this conflict?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: No, Mr Chairperson, I don't remember any day where CONTRALESA attempted to solve this problem.

ADV SANDI: Did you take this problem and address it to
the leaders of CONTRALESA?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: The leader of Contralesa, Chief Nonkonyane, because from the beginning he is the one who was torturing members of the ANC in our village.  He called us Inkatha, Chief Nonkonyane from CONTRALESA.

ADV SANDI: Thank you sir.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I want to thank all of you.  We sympathise with you as Reverend Xundu has already said.
 We sympathise with those who lost their family members, but as I've already said to the people from Matatiele, the Commission is not supposed to deal with the conflicts amongst the villages.
 People can do that by themselves.  What we are looking at is the conflict, political conflict before 1994.  The cases of conflict between Chiefs and the people, is not one of the requirements of this Commission, we are not a Tribal Court, we are the Commission for the Truth and Reconciliation.
 You made requests to the Commission and we will forward your requests to the President.  If we made investigations and we found out that your incidents fall under our act, and you were injured because of the apartheid of the past Government, we will look into your matters.
 We thank one of  you by saying that you have to sit down and negotiate and discuss your problems in your villages.  I don't know what is going on in villages, because I used to stay in villages and people used to sit down and solve their problems.
 Unfortunately, Chief is not here because I also wanted him to be here so that I can address you together with him.
 The answer will not come from heaven or from Mandela,
the solution will not come from the  Commission, but it will come amongst the people of the villages if they can sit down and discuss their problems.
 Thank you.