Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-25

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know when Mr Zulu went to KwaZulu Natal prior to the attack?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR BERGER: So how do you know that Prince Vanana Zulu was not present in the hostel on the day of the attack?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I believe I would have seen him in all the meetings of Kwamadala.  His house was located next to the gate.  One would have seen him because that was the gate that we used for exit and entrance.

MR BERGER: And if someone were to say that Prince Vanana Zulu was in Boipatong at the time of the attack would you say that that is not correct or would you say it's possible but you never saw him?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I dispute that.  Had he been around Boipatong I would have seen him, I would have seen him again at the meeting.

MR BERGER: Thank you Mr Mkwanazi, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: Thank you Chairperson I have no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis?

MS CAMBANIS: No questions thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Chairperson.
	How often did Mr Themba Khosa come to meetings at the hostel?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want him to tell us the exact number of times that Themba Khosa came to the meeting?

MR STRYDOM: Not exact, I want an estimate of how regularly did Mr Themba Khosa come to the hostel to address meetings.

CHAIRPERSON: Then put that question.

MR STRYDOM: Yes the question is how regularly did Themba Khosa come to the hostel to address the people?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Mr Khosa used to come regularly to the meetings.

MR STRYDOM: Before the attack on Boipatong do remember when was the last occasion when Mr Khosa came to the hostel to address the people?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Can you please repeat your question?

MR STRYDOM: Before the attack I want to know if you can remember the last occasion before the attack Mr Khosa came to the hostel to address the residents?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember when it was, I do not know the date.

MR STRYDOM: Can you give any estimate whether it was weeks, days or months before that?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: It might be a month before.

MR STRYDOM: At any meeting which you attended did you see Mr Khosa together with the person that stood there, Mr Peens, on Friday that he stood there?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Chairperson just bear with me, I'm just taking an instruction?  I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Pretorius?

MS PRETORIUS: I have no further questions thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr da Silva?

MR DA SILVA: May it please you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mkwanazi, you testified that Mr Mabote had an AK47 in his possession and he fired this AK47 at the military vehicles.  You say there was a series of gunfire.  Is it your recollection that Mr Mabote was shooting single shots or was the AK47 semi-automatic?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: He was shooting on automatic.

MR DA SILVA: And while he was shooting on automatic were there several bursts of fire at the military vehicles or was it a single burst of fire?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: An automatic will shoot many times.

MR DA SILVA: But if you think back of the incident was there a burst of fire and then a pause and then another burst of fire?  Was this what happened on several occasions or was there just one continuous burst of fire?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: The gun was on automatic.

MR DA SILVA: And he was just shooting in the direction of the military vehicle?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR DA SILVA: Can you recall more or less what time in the evening this incident took place?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I would not remember the time sir.

MR DA SILVA: Now I understand your evidence to be that the vehicles parked directly opposite the steel footbridge that leads to the main road where the group eventually crossed, is that correct?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct, that's where we were supposed to cross, that's a small bridge.

MR DA SILVA: My instructions are that the military vehicle that was there in Frikkie Meyer Boulevard never stopped opposite the footbridge.  Do you have any comment?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: The vehicles that I saw on the 17th June stopped at that bridge, that's when Themba Mabote shot in their direction.  They were removed from our way and they drove off to the direction of Sebokeng.  We managed then to cross the bridge.

MR DA SILVA: Now Mr Timothy Stalz Mazibuku you say moved in the same circle as what you did.  What I want to know, did he form part of that group that crossed that bridge when the military vehicles were there, was he part of the same group?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I would say yes.  Remember we had split into groups now some people were still coming to join the group, some were right behind.

MR DA SILVA: I would state to you that he was part of the same group because his evidence was that he was standing next to Mr Mabote when he fired the firearm.  Would you dispute that?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I would not dispute that, I would not confirm that, we were many.  I did not go there to inspect as to who was standing next to who.

MR DA SILVA: Why I'm asking you this question, Mr Mkwanazi, is that Mr Mazibuku's recollection of the events is different from yours.  He says that this vehicles or the vehicles approached close to the group and they were about thirty metres away and then they turned around and drove away, that they did not come from Vanderbijlpark and stop at the bridge.  I don't understand his evidence to be that.  Do you have any comment in that regard?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: It might have been that he was right at the back but I still say I saw the vehicles that approached from Vanderbijlpark.

MR DA SILVA: Now your evidence is that these vehicles drove away in the direction of Sebokeng.  If I put it to you that these vehicles drove to the gate of the hostel and at later stages fired canisters of gas into the marsh, you won't be able to dispute that would you?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct, I would not dispute that.  When they arrived we were already inside Kwamadala.

MR DA SILVA: I don't have further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you sir.

MS PRETORIUS: No re-examination.

CHAIRPERSON: Did I ask you Mr Mapoma if you had any questions?

MR MAPOMA: ...[inaudible]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mkwanazi, you say Prince Vanana Zulu was not at the hostel because if he was there you would have seen him during the meetings.  My question is if he was there and he didn't attend the meeting can you still dispute that he was not there?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: There would never be a meeting in his absence.  He was a respectable man and he would attend meetings of elderly people and address them.  He would be there.

MR SIBANYONI: Now we understand all men were called to the hostel.  Are you in a position to say everyone attended the meeting of the 17th at the stadium?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: Was Mkambalani Buthelezi also at the meeting of the 17th at the stadium?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember. Mkambalani Buthelezi was a sickly person, I don't know whether he was suffering from T.B. or he had ulcers but he was sick.  He was the leader of the Youth Brigade.  Now he at times would not attend our meetings.  Instead Thembu would chair all these meetings.  As I said he was a sickly person.

MR SIBANYONI: You can't say whether or not he was there, you can't vow and say definitely he was not at the meeting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I did not see him on the 17th, I do not have certainty as to whether he was there.