Special Hearings — Conscription Hearings — 1997-07-23

CHAIRPERSON: : Thank you.  And my other question relatesto the issue of restitution.  When I was at the church I was shownthe development at the back of the church that people are involvedin, the development project and the work that people are involvedin and I spoke to a few people there who explained how this wasa source of income for them.  I do want to talk about that a littlebit but mostly what would be useful for us is to get an understandingof what it means to establish a restitution fund and what is involvedin that because that building was built by funds from your restitutionfunds so if you can explain a bit to us how you went about doingthis?

PASTOR BOTHA: I think we went through a stage when wewere quite overwhelmed by the whole situation and didn't reallyknow what to do or how to proceed and we consulted people in thecommunity and we also did some soul -searching and some homeworkourselves and realised that it would be good to target a particularcommunity to see something established in a particular area. We therefore got this fund going through our church where peoplecould put finances into that fund knowing that it would be goingto a specific community for upliftment and to build a centre inthe area of Khayelitsha and people responded to that in an overwhelmingway.  So I think if one could create channels even simple channelsand people know that there's an end product that it's not justgoing into a fund somewhere but it's helping a particular communityin a particular place.  I think people want to give to that sothat's what we did and it worked and people are still wantingto give, not just money but also themselves as well.  Obviouslythere are those that are still apprehensive about going to thetownships but will give finances into a fund to help with thingslike that so that also helps towards uplifting communities andso on.

CHAIRPERSON: : Thank you very much Craig, thank you foryour contribution we really appreciate it.

PASTOR BOTHA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to call upon Ian Liebenbergand if you could bring your identity as well.

MR LIEBENBERG: Thanks Pumla.

CHAIRPERSON: You're welcome.  Miss Glenda Wildschut willfacilitate the process thank you.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: You notice the more often Pumla says myname the better she pronounces it.  Thank you very much Pumla,thanks Ian for coming and making a submission to us.  Like withthe others the floor is open to you.  Once you've pressed thered knob after I've spoken.  You will make your submission uninterruptedand once you are finished there will be one or two questions thankyou.
EX-COMMANDER IN OPERATIONAL AREA

MR LIEBENBERG: Thank you very much members of the panel,Miss Chairperson and other people here for giving me this opportunity. Someone who read this thing which I call a submission to theTRC Ex-Conscripts said it's a hybrid, it's personal experienceand academic experience and they never sure what where and whatwhere.  At least I can assure you it's no poetry it's a hybridof the two and after thinking critically about it I decided tokeep it both personal and academic.  For those who read it furtheryou might find reasons why one would stick to that.   Lookingat the mandate of the TRC and more specifically at why we warehere today I think the TRC made it in this case quite clear thatthe request for submissions on conscription is neither an attemptto find perpetrators nor a process that will lead to awardingof victim status for purposes of reparation.  It's perhaps exactlyin that tension that a submission like to-day stands.
 Can I say that for me in the final analysis such a submissionentails just what is meant by it then, reflection about wherewe came from and where we are going as a community of citizensand hopefully in the process raising contextual awareness of thevexedness of our past and present in the aftermath of violenceagainst another.  It's a reflection on a history which was permeatedby a monster and a great deal of misunderstanding.  A lot of evilwas perpetrated and there was a lot of cruel conflict in the Southernmost tip of Africa.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Can I just interrupt you?  Maybe if you'regoing to speak Afrikaans maybe we should give the non-Afrikaansspeaking people an opportunity to put the earphones on so theyfully appreciate what you're saying.

MR LIEBENBERG: Shall I give you an early warning if Igo into English?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: No I think we've already had the warning.