Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

REV XUNDU: Can you please stand up so that you can take an oath.

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

BONGANI FINCA: We welcome you Nonzwakazi Plaatjies.  I am going to hand over to Ms Tiny Maya who will be asking you questions on behalf of the Commission.

MS MAYA: Thank you Chairperson.  I greet you Ms Plaatjies.  Your story is from 1976, September.  You are not sure of the date, whether it was the 8th or the 9th, is that true?  On this particular day you said you were accompanying your grandmother to the Doctor at Cookhouse.  You had a conflict with the police, can you please tell us in your own words what happened on this particular day?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: As my mother was suffering from asthma I was taking her to the station.

MS MAYA: Just hold on.  Who usually counted six?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: The name of the train is Mixi, it is the train.  We used to call the old train Mixi.  Not now, the old train, we used to call it Mixi.  So she was taking a train.
 When I came back, I was afraid of taking the tar road, I had to go through the veld.  When I came, I saw the police.

MS MAYA: Without interrupting you, can you please come
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closer to the mike?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I saw a hippo.  It was full of policemen.
 I was walking down the road, they stopped and they alighted from the police casper, they were shooting.  The White policeman that I managed to identify, he was Dr Schoeman.
 He was wearing his uniform.  He was also shooting and there was also another Xhoza policeman, Bomba Aron and the others.

MS MAYA: Can you just stop right there.  You said these policemen alighted from the police casper - with whom were you at the time?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I was alone.

MS MAYA: Where was your grandmother?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: She had gone, she took the train.

MS MAYA: You are talking about Dr Schoeman, was Dr Schoeman a medical practitioner, a general practitioner?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: Yes, he was also a police, he came out, he alighted from the hippo and started shooting.

MS MAYA: You mean sometimes he used to be a Doctor and sometimes he would be a policeman?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: Yes.

MS MAYA: And at the same time he would examine the people who were injured?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: Yes.

MS MAYA: Can you please go on.

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: They came to me, I fell.  I had a bullet on my neck, that caused me to fall.  They started assaulting me.

MS MAYA: What was it that they were doing?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: They were just stamping on my body and they
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were hitting me with a (indistinct).  If they wanted to put you into the police casper, they don't put you there properly, they just throw you in.  There are also some of the policeman inside the casper.
 One of them is big and fat.  At that time I was already bleeding through the nose and ears.  They said to me I must stand up and go and kiss the White man who was on the corner, they were pushing me towards him.
 They were kicking me.  One of them, by the name of Aron responded and said to the other policemen, he said, no stop doing this, this is our blood.  We can't do this in front of these people, in front of the capitalists.
 Why should we help the capitalists hitting our own people?  Aron said Bomba, this is your sister, you can't do this in front of the White policemen.
 He said the police should start home first.

MS MAYA: Let me take you back a little bit.  How old were you at the time?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I was a big girl at the time.  I was a big girl, I think I was 23 years old or 24, I am not sure because right now I am 44 years old.

MS MAYA: You mean you were no longer a scholar at the time?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: No.

MS MAYA: What was actually happening in your community?  What do you think was the real cause of this assault?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: The people were rioting.

MS MAYA: What was it, can you specify, can you remember what was happening in 1976?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: Yes.   The children, the students were toyi-toying through the townships and they were arrested.

MS MAYA: After the police had arrested you, where did they
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take you to and what is it that they did?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I went into the police van, they drove to the township.  They stopped somewhere but I don't know where because I heard one of them saying the one who was Aron, I heard  him saying, they are stopping in front of the shop, one of the shops in the township.  The others in front alighted from the police casper with Dr Schoeman and the driver.
 I was at the back.  They were talking here inside and they were telling each other who is going out and who is going in.  They went there, they had a list, they brought the list into the police casper.
 They drove to the hospital.  The police casper parked outside the hospital and the other doors opened.  Dr Schoeman and the others went in.  After some time they opened at the back where I was.  I went there and I brought my car, hospital card.
 I was standing in the passage.

MS MAYA: Where is this passage?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: The passage in the hospital.  I was standing there and I was bleeding.  He came from one of the rooms.

MS MAYA: Can you please come closer to the mike.

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: Dr Schoeman came from one of the rooms in the hospital.  He just looked at my ears, he didn't even examine me, he didn't even made me to lie on the bed.  I went back to the cell.

MS MAYA: For how long were you arrested?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: It was on a Tuesday, I stayed there Thursday and Friday.  The following week we were sent to Cookhouse, from Cookhouse to Somerset.  December I was in Somerset.

MS MAYA: What was the reason for the arrest?
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NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: They were accusing me of assaulting the police, saying that I burnt down some of the houses and robbery, but they didn't know the real reason but they just decided that I should be released because there was no evidence.

MS MAYA: When you were arrested, did you appearing court?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I was swollen.  I used to go to court, but I couldn't talk because I was swollen.  A Magistrate by the name of Mehlekati did not want to hear anything about these Boers, they would make me to stand there and that Magistrate would say take her back to the cell.

MS MAYA: Where did Mehlekati come from?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I don't even know.

MS MAYA: Where was this court of Mehlekati?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: It was here in Cradock.

MS MAYA: Do you know his real name?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I only know him as Mehlekati because the people were calling him Mehlekati.

MS MAYA: When did you last see Mr Mehlekati?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I didn't see him after that.

MS MAYA: When were you released?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: I was released on the 8th of January.

MS MAYA: ; Without any charges laid against you?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: No.  What they said, there was another lady who was with us at Cookhouse whose husband arranged a legal representative here for her and I was also taken there with her, it was  Aunty Modi.

MS MAYA: Do you know her surname?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: No.

MS MAYA: Where is she now?

NONZWAKAZI PLAATJIES: She is here in the township.
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MS MAYA: We will request you to give us her details.  After you release did you lay any charges - maybe you sought for help with a legal representative?