Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MR BLACK: There's Annexure B and Annexure C.   Then there is a further Annexure A that is referred to on page 18.   I've requested a copy of this annexure from my attorney.   He says he's unable to locate that annexure, but it simply relates to a fairly important incident of harassment relating to the planting, alleged planting of an AK47, on the premises of the applicant.   My attorney says that the information contained in there was personally conveyed to him and he is prepared under oath to confirm it, if necessary.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, will that part of evidence take us anywhere in enabling us to come to a just and equitable decision in respect of the offences for which Mr Sambo is seeking amnesty?

MR BLACK: It simply relates to a series of incidents of harassment, which eventually motivated Mr Sambo into committing this shooting, and which influenced his motive and thinking at the time, but the facts themselves Mr Sambo himself can just testify about, as to what he discovered and that particular incident, as to who planted the AK47, what political other parties were involved, I don't think would really be relevant at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   I think anything that will be within Mr Sambo's province we'd prefer to hear it from him, and not from an attorney because that wouldn't be direct evidence.

MR BLACK: That is so.   I just wanted to draw the committee's attention to the fact that that annexure wasn't admitted, and it's simply a confirmatory affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BLACK: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I must warn you at this stage that we would not like to hear evidence in any greater detail, if any at all, which relates to his harassment.    We have read his affidavit and it deals quite extensively with his harassment.   So any evidence that would probably add more to what we have already read in his papers, we would welcome, but anything that would be repeating what is contained in the papers before us, we would be reluctant to grant you any indulgence in adducing that kind of evidence.  We must warn you at this stage.   You are, however, free to address us when an appropriate time comes in order to persuade us to view the matter differently.   You may proceed now, Mr Black.

MR BLACK: Yes.   Thank you, Madam Chair.   I may just add that there are one two incidents which may be referred to not in the papers which came to light during the course of consultation.    Then, without further ado, may the applicant be sworn in and then we may proceed.

VOICE SAMBO: (sworn states)

MR BLACK: May I just also place on record that the applicant is and will be testifying in Seswati(?).   Thank you.

MR BLACK: Mr Sambo, I'll refer you, unfortunately, in an affidavit typed... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Switch off your microphone, Advocate Black, if you are talking to your instructing attorneys lest what you say privately becomes incorporated into our record.

MR BLACK: Or it may be offensive in some ways.

CHAIRPERSON: ...had a copy that they would be able to read.  You do have?   Thank you very much.

INTERPRETER: I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Black?

MR BLACK: Thank you.   Madam Chair, with the indulgence, as I've indicated, there may well be, it may come across as a bit of leading evidence, but should there be any objection, please let me know, because of the difficulty that we have with the reading aspect ability.

CHAIRPERSON: What, I mean don't you simply want to find out if he doesn't - if there is anything that he doesn't agree with in his statement, wouldn't that (indistinct) these proceedings instead of having to go through the evidence... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes, as the Court - as... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: ...that is before us by way of an affidavit?

MR BLACK: Yes.   As it pleases Madam Chair.   Mr Sambo, you've signed an affidavit, you first of all signed an application form which you submitted to the TRC?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Right.   Now, we'll come back to that application form, because there's one aspect of that which I want you to explain to the Court.   Now, after that, a further typed out statement was prepared for you with the assistance of an attorney and you signed that before a commissioner of oaths, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Now the contents of that affidavit have been read to you and do you confirm that what is contained in that affidavit is true and correct?

VOICE SAMBO: It is true.

MR BLACK: Then, subsequent to that affidavit typed being prepared, a further supplementary affidavit was prepared, giving information found out by your attorney and relating to further investigation of this matter, and a handwritten copy of that affidavit was also signed by yourself, after it had been read to you and the contents explained to you, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Now, Mr Sambo, what is contained in these affidavits, is there anything in addition that you want to place before the committee, do you want to, I understand there are certain issues that you want to raise before the committee which were not contained in this affidavit?

CHAIRPERSON: You may be lead him by indicating which aspect... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes, okay.

CHAIRPERSON: ...you want him to address us on... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...or to testify about... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ...otherwise he will probably just go on rambling, Mr Black... (intervention).

MR BLACK: Yes, all right.

CHAIRPERSON: ...take charge of the proceedings.

MR BLACK: Thank you.   Mr Sambo, we've already established on your affidavits that you are and were trained, military trained, as a member of the African National Congress and that you entered the country and were arrested in 1991, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: I don't understand you, what about 1991?

MR BLACK: You were arrested by the security police in Khanya Mazane?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: You were then released, by way of indemnity proceedings, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Then you attempted to live a normal life?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: You allege here now that you were approached and offered a bribe to work for the police, or a front organisation of the security forces, and to give them information?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: I just want you to tell the committee, what was your position, both within the ANC and in the community of which you lived in Komatipoort, what status did you have there?

VOICE SAMBO: I was an MK commander as from 1987.   In my community in Komatipoort, Nkomaze area, east of Nkomaze area, I was working as a co-ordinator and commanders used to contact me and give me messages and I will take various messages to relevant guerillas, and I would recruit people for MK and also help them to escape through Swaziland.   When they are in Swaziland, I will organise for them to get to the refugee camps.   I will help them to go up until they are and get their training.   I was also responsible for the mobilisation of ANC members.

MR BLACK: Okay, right, Mr Sambo, your prominent position in the ANC, a key role in that area, was that known to the security police, after you had been released?

VOICE SAMBO: I do suspect that they knew that, but there was no confirmation, they knew this from informers.

MR BLACK: So after they had attempted to recruit you and you refused their bribe, what did you experience then from the security police, how did they react to it?