Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-26

JAMES BARILENG THLAPI: Yes, that is my first investigation which I did in 1986.
 After that, after that I was able to see that those others were released who were imprisoned.  All the names which appeared on the files, those who were arrested under Section 29 were released.  After they were released Hilda came to the house and said - then I said since April has said, has taken Boytjie outside the window at the police at Stilfontein, taking him to other offices, CID offices.  Then he asked me didn't he come home?  I said no, he did not come KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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home.
 Then I began to go to the ANC people, the ANC Youth League to tell them what has happened.  Then they were able to take some steps.  We went to make a statement at Khosa House, we made a statement there.  We met Mr Chris Naidoo. I don't remember the date.  We took all the comrades to that place, the witnesses who were there were five, whom I met with to Johannesburg.  They were taken to the doctor.  I don't know what happened with them at the doctor.  So they made a statement.  Then I went back to Potchefstroom.  
 After I see that it was a long time, I went again to Chris Naidoo.  When I arrived there Chris Naidoo was not there.  There was a certain lady who was helping us. We came back again.
 The ANC was able to see that it was too far, because I have no money to travel.  Then I told them that I am not able able to travel again because of lack of money.  Mr Sarties Rupa came with Mr Dlavani, who have taken that case to Johannesburg.  Then when it arrived in Johannesburg, they began to investigate again.  They were not successful that the case should be in the court.  Then Mr Dlavani tried to make it possible that it should appear in court.  Then all those rumours which appear from the police, that there are holes where people were thrown in, like Buffeldoring, James shafts.  Then they pressurised that there should be an inquest to be held in those holes.  
 We arrived there, but what was surprising that those people who had arrested my son, are those people who did those investigations there.  The divers who went deep into those waters are the people who have arrested my son.  They didn't enter for a long time, and it is quite deep.  The
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distance might be from the police station to that place.  They were four and then they took two to three minutes, and they said it is too dark and again, it is muddy, they are not able to see. 
 I was surprised that even when people came back, it appeared as if they held hands.  Then I said if you are a diver somebody should come first and the other one should follow and the other one should follow later. But they appeared at the same time. When we were in that hole looking for them.
 Then we left. Outside Dlavani said something to these people.  He said to them we will make a date where other divers should be brought who are not police people, so that they should go back to the same water, if possible. If possible, they should come back to the same water so that we should look deep and see what is the problem in there.  Because they said it is too dark or the machine should incept the water. It was not possible for them to go back.  They did not go back at all.
 We went home. Then I got another date, I was called by Abe Dlavani. When we arrived there we went to James shaft.  There were cameras at James shaft.  This shaft, as the other witness who is an ex-policeman said, this place was the place used by the police for mysterious deeds.  After he has reported that - may I wait a little bit ...?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, wait a little bit while Mrs Thlapi is taken away. Thank you very much.

JAMES BARILENG THLAPI: Thereafter cameras were brought to James shaft.  We were told that the people were from Pretoria to come and picture the whole event.  This big hole was covered.  We were told that it was four metres broad and there was a
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tunnel made of big stone, and I peeped through this tunnel and this was a 4 000 metre hole.  It could even be 6 00 metres.  There was a red pipe. In other words, this pipe was used to take out the smoke from Margaret. They used their torch to light this hole and the light was not that bright.  But ultimately we could reach the bottom of this hole and I saw clean water.  The stones in that water were not stones, natural stones from underneath the ground, they were from the first level.  
 A person came, I don't know if he was a policeman or not, because he was wearing private clothes.  He said to me are you now satisfied?  I said to him why do you say I am satisfied?  He said because you saw the bones. I asked him what is that object in the water.  He said no, it is an old iron. I told him that I was told that when you were troubled by these young men you would put them into plastic bags and throw them into the water.  He was puzzled and he didn't know what to say.  
 The policemen were there and they also had their video.  I am definitely sure they also had a cassette for the first hole.  Abe Dlavani was very aggressive.  He told them that we should go back to the first hole and we should get private divers, the people that will do the perfect job.  The police realised that it was now becoming difficult and they issued out an inquest.  
 We went to the court and there were witnesses. I also gave my testimony. I told the Court how my son disappeared and the story ended.
 I think it was last year, presently I should tell you that the magistrate gave out a report and in his report he said he would call me, he would first go through the
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documents and he doesn't know who to blame.  He said he would send those documents to the Attorney-General who will then tell me what steps to take or he will give me a reply.  The Attorney-General will tell me who was responsible.
 Gentlemen, at this present moment I haven't received an answer. It is a year now.  The inquest was in October or September of last year.  Let me say that it was in September. It is again September,  a full year and no response has been given to me.  
 They told me that after three months they would respond to my case.  But after six months that I have waited, no answer was given to me. 
 I gave the independent board a telephone call, because at one stage I went to see them to get help. I said to them I have been calling the lawyers at Klerksdorp, but they don't answer their telephone. I was talking to Celesela and I was told that I will be given a reply the same day, the afternoon of the same day.
 I don't know maybe he heard Motala's telephone numbers because he called me later and then he said Mr Thlapi, the office of the Human Rights in Klerksdorp is not available any more in Mafekeng.  I was shocked.  How could my lawyer transfer me to another place while I was here.  
 That is the difficulty that I came through until I heard about the Truth Commission and I hope and I have this wish that the Truth Commission can help me investigate this matter. The people involved are Viljoen and April and this other one April who witnessed the electrocution of my son.  I would appreciate it if they come to the court and tell exactly what they did to him. If my child is alive, please bring him back. If he is dead, still okay, let them 
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bring him back and then I will be bury him. 
 He had children and the eldest one is doing Std 9.  The other two are staying with the granny because their mother cannot afford them. Every time these children need something they come to me.