Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-14

THOMAS MANTHATA: What were you doing as youths, besides this that came into your mind later?

ZANDILE J MUSI: We would have church meetings.  We would meet for
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religious meetings.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At that time, which I think even now, you were religiously inclined.

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, I was a church-going person.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At the time you met this Ephraim, had you told about your brother, and where he had left him?

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, he did say.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What information did he give about your brother?

ZANDILE J MUSI: He said that my one brother is back in Germany and the other one in Zambia.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So those were the reasons why you trusted and believed in him.  But as you say, when he brought these new men with his car, did he introduce himself to you?

ZANDILE J MUSI: No, he did not introduce them.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The time after this explosion, did the families of the comrades ever visit you?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I was not admitted, I was just treated, I did not sleep at the hospital, I was treated and taken to prison.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did they attend your trial?

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, they did attend.

THOMAS MANTHATA: ... support.  When do you think they lost faith in you, that they began to doubt you?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I just thought that they were doubting me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Of course, this was compounded by the feeling of guilt on your side, that you had organised the youth yourself.

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, that is the reason.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Musi, don't regret it.  Then for the second arrest they said you were found in possession of firearms, is that what they said?  That is the 1985 arrest.
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ZANDILE J MUSI: It was explosives, I did not have firearms, just explosives.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Where did you get that from?  Were you already, even at that time, organised into another cadre of comrades?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I was a comrade, but not a cadre as such, but I was a comrade.

THOMAS MANTHATA: My last question would be, even at this time in 1985, in your operation as a comrade, did you kill anybody?

ZANDILE J MUSI: No, I have never killed anyone.

MS SEROKE: Prof Piet Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: I only have a few things I would like to ask. There are a number of things I would like to ask just to complete the picture.
 The first thing I want to ask, is you said, I think it was in 1985, when you were in prison, you were being tortured and then there was a major who intervened on your behalf. After his intervention things improved and you were released. Is that so?

ZANDILE J MUSI: It was in 1982.

PROF MEIRING: Do you know the name of that major who came to your assistance?

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, I do remember him - no, I do not remember him.

PROF MEIRING: A white man or a black man?

ZANDILE J MUSI: It was a white man. He helped me in the sense that he testified in court that I was being beaten up and assaulted.

PROF MEIRING: Another question about your own personal circumstances.  In your written report you say that you had
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two ear operations, but you can't hear properly and you also had an operation on your right leg. Is that so?

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, that is so.  My hands are all right, but I have a problem with my ears.

PROF MEIRING: Are you working at the moment, are you employed or are you without work?

ZANDILE J MUSI: No, I am not working, I am unemployed.

PROF MEIRING: What education do you have?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I am supposed to write Std 10 examinations. I have got a problem with my memory and concentration.

PROF MEIRING: Musi, are you married, do you have a family, any children?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I am not married but I have children.

PROF MEIRING: How old are your children?

ZANDILE J MUSI: My eldest is 11 years old and the other two months old.

PROF MEIRING: A boy and a girl?

ZANDILE J MUSI: They are both boths.

PROF MEIRING: The last question I wish to ask is - oh, yes, I want to ask.  You are not able to work. Who are helping you financially? Do you have a pension or are you dependent upon your parents, who helps you with money?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I depend on my mother.  She helps me.  She is an assistant nurse at the hospital.

PROF MEIRING: Then the very last question is:  you said in the course of your testimony that the feelings between the families are sometimes not too good.  Do you think that today in coming to the Truth Commission will help to heal the relationship between the families?

ZANDILE J MUSI: Yes, I would really appreciate it if the Truth Commission would help in the reconciliation of these
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families.

MS SEROKE: Zandile, according to your statement here, you say that you and your late friends were affiliated to Cosas and also active in the Kagiso residents organisation. You then continued to say that Cosas dealt with political and educational issues and Kagiso residents organisation dealt with community issues. You were involved in all those issues.  At what stage then did you deviate from this way of reparation?

ZANDILE J MUSI: I did not deviate.  But I realised that the best way to help the community would be if we joined the MK.  We were not deviating as such, we were just in the struggle.

MS SEROKE: Thank you for coming here today to tell us what happened in 1982.  I am sure that you feel that at least there is less magnitude and gravity now that you have spoken.  What we realise is that you were a victim because Emphraim took advantage of the fact that he knew your brother and you trusted him.  Because you must have thought that somebody who knows my brother is like a brother to me too.  We realise that all these years you were stigmatised, people were suspicious. I don't know, but I should think so, that your friends in the township, even the parents of the deceased, probably suspected that you were involved in their children's murders.  It is terrible to be suspected of something you are innocent of.  We understand that you must have felt guilty for having fetched these children at home, from home, to put them in such danger.  Besides the fact that you were on Robben Island for three years, psychologically you must really have been badly affected, especially your youth, because you are quite young, you are still growing up.  What I really want to say is that before
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you step down, is that I can imagine how much you were traumatised.  We have heard your request, because you do not hear well and the lapse of your memory.  Before you leave I would like to give you an opportunity, maybe there is something you would like to say to the audience.  Maybe you would like to address the parents of the deceased now that the truth is out.   Maybe you can also address your request to the parents.

ZANDILE J MUSI: My request is that Fanjane and Jingo have contributed to the freedom we have to this day.  They died being aware that there will be a qualitative change in our country.  They have died as heroes of South Africa.  Could their families perhaps get some form of compensation?  Perhaps the Truth Commission could help me with my life as well, so that I can continue with my life and live like a normal person.  That is my request.

MS SEROKE: Thank you very much.  We have heard your requests.  We will put forward a recommendation to the President and we will see what we can do.
 It has been a very tough decision to speak today, but we are glad that you have let all this out.  Thank you.
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