Special Hearings — Women's Hearings — 1997-07-29

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mama, just to try - just interrupt   you a little bit, why do you think they were doing all of these things to you?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: The reason that I think they did this is   because there was no mistake in the job that I was doing, but there was some   hatred because I did not want to get intimately involved with one of them because   before they did this to me they said I should choose between the two of them.   He said if I chose Jacob he wouldn't be jealous. And if I chose the other one   Jacob would also not be jealous. They said I should have some men in my life   who could sort out my problems.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama you also mentioned, right at the beginning,   that at the time you were taken to Zambia there were nine comrades who had been   killed, do you think they believed that you were perhaps responsible for the   death of these nine comrades?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Yes amongst those nine comrades who died   I was the one who had opened up the route, but at that time that I did that   I explained the whole story to them. I told them that I had played a certain   part and I explained as to what part I played and at the time that they were   taken during the night I was not there. I only opened up the route to show the   commander that here is the safest route. But thereafter somebody else takes   over from me, that is the commander.
 I explained the whole story, that is why Comrade A Team   said to me he does believe in me and he realises that the mistake was not with   me. He then asked me as to whether these other comrades were not drinking along   the way. I told him the truth that they were drinking. They went into certain   bars to purchase some drinks and the principles or rules of the Congress did   not allow us to drink because we regarded ourselves as soldiers who were on   a mission... (tape ends) states of drunkenness. We wanted to discharge our duties   with honesty and then we could drink thereafter, only after the mission had   been accomplished.

CHAIRPERSON: Were these nine comrades killed by the   old Government forces?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Were they killed on the side of the Swaziland   border?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Beauty Simelane one of them?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Ja, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: I see. So actually you think that because   you had been involved in the escape route that perhaps they thought that you   had betrayed them?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: H'n, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama at any time during all of your experiences,   you have mentioned that they wanted you to actually choose between them, the   two of them, but were you sexually assaulted in any way?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Not like that. But I believed that as a   soldier I have been called upon by the authorities within the ANC structures   and I haven't come to get involved or romantically involved with some members,   but I had been called to come and account with regard to the deaths of certain   people within the ANC or the comrades.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama, when this experience had in fact   finished, were you ever able to complain to anybody in a high position in the   ANC about your treatment?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Yes, so many times. I wrote to Comrade   Zola Skweyiya, that is one of the people who exonerated me and who actually   said that I did not sell my fellow comrades. I wrote to him asking for his assistance   because I was suffering at the time. I also wrote to Matthews Phosa. We were   staying in the same house and I used to cook for Phosa. I used to also bake   cakes for them after they had realised that I was innocent, I hadn't done any   wrong.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you ever testified before any of the   Commissions of Inquiry about your own matter?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Yes, I did submit a statement in Ermelo   before the Commission went to Ermelo I submitted a statement to Reverend Khumalo   but the statement that I submitted was never forwarded to the Truth Commission.   I only realised after the Truth Commission had been to Ermelo that my statement   was not there. That's why I had to go and find out as to where the next Commission   would be held. I submitted a second statement. Even the passport that I left   with Reverend Khumalo, the one I used to come back from Tanzania, as well as   the ticket, I left that as evidence that I had been in exile and it was not   for the first time that I had been exiled. I had been to Angola and many camps   through Comrade Chris Hani.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama did you ever hear anything, were you   ever cleared of this allegation that you were in fact a spy?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Repeat again.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever hear from the ANC or from   any other comrades that in fact you had been cleared of this allegation or thought   that you had been a spy?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: Yes I did get some information at a later   stage that my name had been cleared. They even put me in the kitchen that I   should be responsible for the cooking because they realised that I was innocent   at that time. Even the Comrade Zola Skweyiya he told me in front of my eyes,   you are innocent. You are cleared, nothing. They proved that I wasn't linked   to the Boers.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mama. I am going to ask my fellow   commissioners if they have any questions for you. Hlengiwe.

MS MKHIZE: I will take you back. I was just going through   your statement. I will ask you just a few questions in order to try and clarify   certain issues. When you got to Zambia, are there any authorities, or did you   appear before any tribunal or disciplinary authority with regard to the alleged   deed?

LITA NOMBANGO MAZIBUKO: At first it was Comrade Jacob and Comrade   A Team, thereafter Team was taken off the case and Jacob did it all by himself,   Jacob and Mtungwa. Later on when we were moved away from Zambia that's where   I came across Comrade Zola Skweyiya. We were taken to another prison called   Sunset. That's where we were raped. I don't know how to describe this. That's   where I came across Comrade Zola Skweyiya. He's the one I spoke to and explained   to him the life that I was leading. And he told me that he didn't know as to   why I was being kept because I had been found to be innocent.

MS MKHIZE: You said your matter was dealt with but they   still put you at Sunset Prison? When you say you were raped, was it a principle   or a rule of that prison that women would violated in this manner?