Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chairman.  May I call Bennet Mnyaka Ndabe.

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning Mr Ndabe.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Good morning.

CHAIRPERSON: What language are you going to speak?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Madasa?

MR MADASA: Mr Ndabe, how old are you?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I am 39 years old.

MR MADASA: How far did you go at school?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I failed from five.

MR MADASA: December 1993, did you live in (indistinct)

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is true.

MR MADASA: Which Extension and Block?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: (Indistinct) Extension 2, Block D.

MR MADASA: In the SDU, were you a patroller or an operator?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I was a patroller.

MR MADASA: In the killings of December 1993, were you involved?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No.  I only participated in capturing (indistinct)

MR MADASA: How did it come about that you were involved in capturing those people?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: In the morning just after sunrise we left, myself and Sonti and Shuga.  We had been sent to report to Mnyala that the youth has already attacked people.

MR MADASA: Who sent you?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I don't remember quite well, whether that was from the community or himself, as he was a member of the Executive Defence.  I just escorted him or accompanied him.

MR MADASA: This day that you are talking about, is this the day of the killing or is it the day when Blanko and Bulelwa died?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Blanko died on that day.

MR MADASA: Where did you meet these people who sent you?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: At Bulelwa's corpse.

MR MADASA: You went to Bulelwa's corpse?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is where we were, we were keeping guard the whole night.

MR MADASA: With whom?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: We were quite many in number plus the community of Block F.

MR MADASA: Were you asked to guard the corpse or did you go there voluntarily?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: It is our culture as black people, we can't leave our corpse alone.

MR MADASA: Did you hear that Bulelwa had died or how did it come about that you went to her body?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: As part of the group, we heard the whistle blow.

MR MADASA: You heard a whistle, and then you went to Bulelwa's body?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps Mr Ndabe, if you could just tell us how it came to be that you were at the spot where Bulelwa's body was found and how it came about that you went with Sonti and Shuga to make a report to Mnyala and what happened thereafter, do you understand that?

MR MADASA: I don't quite understand what you want.

CHAIRPERSON: I am saying you have already told us that you did not kill anyone.  What you did was to escort or accompany the people who were going to capture and you took part there, and you have already made mention of the fact that as a man who belonged to that particular organisation or group, you had to go as part of the culture to where the corpse was.
	You were in the company of Sonti and Shuga to convey the report to Mnyala.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, what I am asking from you please concisely explain to us as to how did it come about that you landed right next to Bulelwa's corpse and found yourself going to Mnyala, and also we want to know what happened subsequently, in other words we want for you to explain to us exactly what you did.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The way we used to operate was in this fashion, if there is a place that has been attacked, we would hear a whistle blow, because people will alert us by blowing the whistle, and we will run to this thing where this whistle was being blown.
	That is exactly what happened on that particular day.  We heard the whistle and we had to rush in the direction where the whistle was being blown from and that is what we found Bulelwa's corpse.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: We were there for quite some time, and some other comrades that is next to the corpse, some other comrades left to go and sleep at night, since they had to go to work the following morning.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Towards the early hours of the morning, or at dawn, we heard sounds of gun fire.  Suddenly there was fire.  We had to rush there with some other men who were with me around the corpse of Bulelwa that is.
	We found Blanko's shack burning fiercely.  We were quite many in number and we tried to extinguish the fire.  Then comrade Oscar arrived and explained to us, he was already from Sonti.  He was telling us, that is Oscar, who killed the person, who killed Blanko and was seen killing Blanko.

MR MADASA: Did he tell you who did he see?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: He did mention his name.  He said Tusaneng was the person.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: We therefore left and went back to Bulelwa's corpse, some of us that is.    Some left in search of some other people like Ntshebe Dondolo.  I forgot the other one who used to be a Chairman at F, Nxeba, I just remembered.  His name is Nxeba.
	They went.  They went to fetch the Peace Committee at the hospital to fetch the corpse.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Comrades left us there by the corpse.  When Nxeba's car drove towards B or A, I am not too sure, we also heard gun shots at that point.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: When these men followed towards that direction, they came across the other group and more gun shots were heard and we were still there, keeping guard at the corpse, so we don't know exactly what was happening, we just saw them coming back with youth.
	It was Nongeba Sonti and Shuga was also there.  I don't know the others.

MR MADASA: Do you know those kids they brought back?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I never knew them.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Those kids were taken to a shack which was near, just closer to where Bulelwa's corpse was laying.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Rooivalk was chosen and somebody else, to keep guard.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The group left again, going to locate as to where Nxeba was.  When they came back, they brought more kids and claimed that they met them somewhere, and Tusaneng was amongst that group if I am not mistaken this time around.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: And when they arrived, they were also forwarded to the shack.

MR MADASA: Did they return with one person or more than one person?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I don't know how many they were, but it was a group.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Early in the morning, I felt so sleepy, I felt I wanted to go to bed and sleep and I joined Nxeba as they were leaving, I left with them.

MR MADASA: Whom did you join?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I joined Nxeba and Shuga.

MR MADASA: Nxeba who?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Nxeba Sonti.

MR MADASA: Where did you go?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I was going with them to where they were going, they were going to Mnyala's house.   We met Tsepo at the taxi rank and we asked him about the matter that transpired yesterday since he was also sent.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: And he told us that they were shot and one escaped and no one could tell as to who was running into which direction and so forth.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: And he went to sleep wherever he slept and we left him alone and we got into a taxi and we told him where to go to a meeting where people had gathered.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The taxi took us to Mnyala and we alighted.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Just after getting out of the taxi, we saw Mnyala standing with Nxeba and three boys that belonged to the youth.

MR MADASA: Yes?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: When we alighted from the taxi, we approached their direction.  One ran, fled and shot at us at the same time as he was running.

MR MADASA: Do you know who that was?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, I do know.

MR MADASA: Who?