Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-09-02

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is true, Sir.

ADV MEMANI: Were you acting on instructions from you superiors within the Police Force?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is true.

ADV MEMANI: Did you do so for personal gain?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: No Sir.

ADV MEMANI: Did you receive any personal reward for so doing?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: No, I didn't receive any reward Sir.

ADV DE JAGER: This would apply to all the incidents you are now about to give evidence about, you were acting in the scope of your employment, on the instructions of your seniors and you didn't get any remuneration nor gained from the incidents?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is true Sir.

ADV MEMANI: Now, in the incident that you referred to regarding the burning of the house of, the clinic of Winnie Mandela, that is now incident number 2.4 and the burning of the Ford Cortina of Jani Mohapi, that is 2.5.  The burning of the minibus of Elia Mohapi, 2.6, were there any people present in the house, the clinic and the vehicle concerned?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: There were no people in those incidents, in the car, in the clinic, in the house and in the cars.

ADV MEMANI: And when you, how did it come about that you were involved in the various acts of arson and malicious damage to property in those instances?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: We were sent that we should burn those houses and those cars.

ADV MEMANI: Who sent you to, let's deal with them one by one.  Who sent you to bomb the clinic of Winnie Mandela?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is Colonel Coetzee.

ADV MEMANI: Where did he give you the instruction to go and bomb the clinic of Winnie Mandela?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: In Fountain, Sir.

ADV MEMANI: The offices of the Security Branch, you have referred to before?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is true.

ADV MEMANI: Now, as far as the burning of the Ford Cortina of Jani Mohapi, who sent you to burn that car?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Those were instructions from Colonel Coetzee.  All those instructions are from Colonel Coetzee.

ADV MEMANI: And was it, were all three of these incidents arising out of your duties as a policeman?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is true.

ADV MEMANI: Just one second.   Thank you Mr Chairman.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Can I interrupt you.  If we didn't do this in the beginning, maybe we should do this now.  The document that you have in front of you Mr Ngo, was it written by yourself?  This long document, handwritten one, with several pages?  From which you have been apparently reading?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I wrote it after I received a letter from the Amnesty Committee that my application is not complete, so this is a copy I sent to them to given them a full explanation of the incidents.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: So do you confirm the truth of the contents of this document, it starts from page 1 to 25?  It starts from page 1 to page 25.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Yes.  On the report I have, the last page is number 20.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Well, I am going to show you page 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, then tell me if that is also part of your document and if what stands in there, was written by yourself and if it is the truth.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Yes, that is my handwriting.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Do you confirm that what is written there comes from you and that it is the truth?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so, Sir.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: I suppose with that Mr Memani, you can then just highlight, pick up whatever important points that you want to pick up from the document.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps we should also just for the sake of clarity, I think it was recorded earlier, but not very clearly, when you made your original application, the Prison Authorities undertook to type out your statement, didn't they?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: And that was the original document, annexed it was a typed document?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: And you then later received notification from the TRC offices that the application, the original application which had been dated the 25th of August 1996, was not in order and you wrote out by hand this other long statement, and you sent that with an application on the 7th of March 1997?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: And that is why we have two applications from you before us, and two statements?

ADV MEMANI: Mr Ngo, we are now going to deal with matter number 2.8, the attack on the house of Nino Gint.

ADV DE JAGER: That is on pages 43 to 44?

ADV MEMANI: That is correct Mr Chairman.  It is page 21 in your papers Mr Ngo.	Mr Chairman, I think he has recently indicated that his pages run up to 20.

ADV DE JAGER: Have you got a copy Mr Memani?

ADV MEMANI: I should have.

ADV DE JAGER: Well, give it to your client so that he could give evidence.

ADV MEMANI: I cannot understand why that should attract the ire of the Committee, it is not through my fault that he hasn't got and I was going to suggest that I must go, the matter stand down, so that I can give him a copy.

ADV DE JAGER: Well, if you've got a copy, try and descend it to him so that he can give his evidence.

ADV MEMANI: As the Chairman pleases.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I am happy to lend the applicant my copy.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Ngo, do you have page 21 now in front of you?  There should be two numbers ... (intervention)

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Yes, I have it.

ADV MEMANI: Now, the next incident there is the acts of offences petrol bombing and attempted murder in Mamelodi, 1987 to 1988.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: Yes, I see that.

ADV MEMANI: Now, can you tell the Committee about that incident?

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: It was in 1987 towards 1988, when I was based in Mamelodi police station as a member of Reaction Unit, working with the members of the Security Branch and the SADF to oppress the political activists in Mamelodi.
	When I committed the following incidents.  It was twelve midnight, myself and Hendrik Bokaba, Dannyboy Selahla went to A1 section to a house belonging to a member of Mamelodi Youth Organisation namely Louisa Mbongo.
	We had two petrol bombs.  On our arrival at the house, I personally threw two petrol bombs at the house while Hendrik Bokaba assisted me to light the bombs when I was setting the room of the house alight.  Throwing those petrol bombs, their sitting room was burnt and the furniture.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chair, this appears to be a convenient time.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that all he is going to say about this incident?

ADV MEMANI: No, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Wouldn't it be more convenient to finish his evidence on this issue.  It doesn't take very much longer, does it?

ADV MEMANI: May you proceed.

MPHITHIZELI NELSON NGO: The following day, the next door neighbour of Louisa and also a member of MYO held a meeting at their place where he suggested that they should hold a protest march against those members who have bombed their houses.
	Captain Loots instructed that the house should be bombed.  Myself and Hendrik Bokaba, we went to that house, that member of MYO, it was known as Nino Gint, it is a four roomed house, it was next to Louisa.
	Myself and Hendrik Bokaba threw petrol bombs from the front windows.  Then Nino Gint's house was burnt down.  After that we heard that she died in hospital.  I really don't know whether it was because of the heart attack or not.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chair, it seems that that is in essence the end of the incident.	I don't know if it is a convenient time?

CHAIRPERSON: We will take a short adjournment now.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chairman, my learned colleague would like to put something on record.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I would suggest that the witness be warned that he is still under oath.

CHAIRPERSON: He has been giving evidence now for about two days, hasn't he, I think he should recollect that he is under oath.