Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-10

COMMISSIONER: Please take your time, Mrs Madela.  We know that this must be very, very difficult for you to go through.  (Pause)  Where did you go to after that?  Did you in fact leave Madadeni?

WITNESS:   I went to Nambithi in my sister's house, and I told them that people came to my house, told me that they were coming to take me.  So my sister said, "You can stay in my house for a while."  My sister asked me what am I going to do with my household goods, so I told my sister that, "It really doesn't matter.  My life is more important than my properties."  I stayed there for four months, and my family advised me to go and rent in town.  I went to town at Aboo Park(?).  That's where I rented a flat.  One day I went to my house, and I had asked people to take care of my house.  I received a letter from a superintendent asking me to come to his office and talk to him.  I went to his office at Madadeni, and Mr Jele said to me, "Mrs Madela, do you know that I was supposed to take you out from that house a day after your husband had died?"  So I said, "No, I didn't know that.  And how were you going to do that, because I am his legal wife?"  So he said to me, "The law says I must take "you out.  Now I am calling you to tell you that I am taking that house."  I told him that, "No, don't do that because that's my house, and I have spent so much money to renovate the house."  He said he is taking the house, and he said to me what he can do for me, he can look for a stand for me, for a site.  And then he said to me the reason he is taking the house it's because I didn't pay the rent.  So I told him, "But this is the usual thing.  We only pay rent once a year, and I am still prepared that I am going to buy the house."  And he said to me, "That's okay, you can leave now and you'll see me another day."  I explained to him that the reason I am not in that house it's because I am scared, not because I don't want that house.  And then he said to me he will look for another house in another section where he is going to put me, because someone had bought that house.  And I was surprised because I was still alive, and whoever bought the house didn't buy the house from me.  He sold my house on his own.  As I am talking today there's a woman who's staying in my house who is single, and he chased me out of my house.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   I am staying at Nambithi with my mother, and when I am here at work I am staying with my sister.  I am working at Shoprite Checkers temporarily.

COMMISSIONER: Now, this person whom your husband mentioned, Themba Nkabinde, do you know Themba Nkabinde?

WITNESS:   No, I don't.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... to the police when you reported your husband's death?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did, and my husband also left a statement with the police before he died that if anything happened to him Themba is the one responsible. (Inaudible) ... he was a member of the IFP youth you don't know who Themba is?   ---   No, I have never seen him.

COMMISSIONER: This phone call that you got from this person from Eshowe, what was his name - on the night that your husband died?

WITNESS:   He said he was Thango

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... organisation he was from?

WITNESS:   Thango said he sympathises with us because he had heard that Inkatha youth was going to attack us.  In section 1 there was Inkatha.  In my house at Savuka an Inkatha youth came to my house, and the leader of these youths was Themba Nkabinde.  Even at the police station my husband told them that Themba Nkabinde will be the one responsible for his death if anything happens to him, even though I don't know what actually happened between my husband and Themba.  My husband was secretive.  I don't even know Themba Nkabinde.  I only know the name and the last name.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... time of the attack on your house and your husband's death did you say that you were living in section 1, Madadeni?

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: And the IFP people also lived in section 1, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, there were members of IFP, and a lot of them, in section 1.

COMMISSIONER: Do you think that they knew that your husband was not a supporter of the IFP?  Was he a supporter of the IFP, or did he support the ANC or the UDF?  Which organisation did he support, your husband?

WITNESS:   He was a member of ANC, or a supporter.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... youth people wanted to drive you out of that area in section 1, to make you go and live somewhere else?

WITNESS:   Yes, because they used to shout and say that they don't need us in that area, they don't need Madela's house in section 1.  That's why we even decided not to bury my husband from Madadeni, we went to his house in Chugisa, because they have said they didn't need us there.  They didn't want us there, and that's why - that's the reason they took my house away from me.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... Mrs Madela, you've mentioned that in the house with you at the time was your husband's daughter, Delisile, is that right?  Was that your daughter or your husband's daughter?  She was 17 years old at the time, Delisile.  Who's daughter is that?  Is that your daughter or your husband's daughter?

WITNESS:   My husband's daughter, but I am the one who raised her up.  I took her since she was a child because her mother left her when she was eight months old.  Now she is 21 years old and she is still with me.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   With my husband's family.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... any idea whatsoever about the identity of the people who killed your husband?  Does she have any idea of the identity of the people?

WITNESS:   I am not sure whether she can mention or identify them, but because she was still young, she was a youth at that time, she might be able to tell who exactly she saw.  All I heard myself is that one person called a name out, Phiri, which I don't know whether Phiri was the name or Phiri is the surname.

COMMISSIONER: And have you given this information to Sergeant Ndlovu?  You said in your statement that a certain Sergeant Ndlovu told you that he was investigating the case, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did tell him, and he said to me I must only talk about something that I know

COMMISSIONER: /that is

COMMISSIONER: that it exists, not something that I heard.  So I told him that, "What I am telling you is what my husband told me, and the truth is I believe that Themba Nkabinde is the one who killed my husband."

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Madela, was there a court case or an inquest that was held to investigate your husband's death?  Did you go to court and tell the same story that you're telling now to a Magistrate?

WITNESS:   Nothing happened.  I went there to ask the police.  I was never called in court or in police station not even once.  I don't remember a single day hearing that there will be an inquest or court case.

COMMISSIONER: And can you tell me what was the situation like at the time in section 1 and elsewhere in Madadeni?  Was there a lot of fighting or killing, attacking?

WITNESS:   In 1992 and 1991 we had violence between Savuka and Salala.  I can't tell whether it was politically motivated or it wasn't, because Salala seemed to be criminals and Savuka they were like Inkatha youth.  But eventually they joined Savuka and Salala together, they became Inkatha youth.  Everyone knew that they were bad, they were criminal, and they were youth.

COMMISSIONER: Is Sergeant Ndlovu from Madadeni Police or Newcastle Police?  Is he ZP or SAP?

WITNESS:   Ndlovu came to my house.  I am not sure in which police station was he working.  I am not sure which police station he was from.  I was scared to talk everything with him because I didn't actually know him that well.