Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-29

MR PATEL: In committing any of these offences for which you claim amnesty, were you motivated by personal malice or gain?

PELELE L SHONGWE: No, that is not correct.

MR PATEL: And in respect of these offences for which you claim amnesty, have you been prosecuted?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, I was arrested for the same offences.

MR PATEL: Which offences were you arrested for?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I was arrested for killing Bongani Malinga, Ernest Malele and the attempted murder of this other National Party member who was in the company of Ernest Malele and to be found in possession of unlicensed firearm and ammunition.

MR PATEL: What happened with regard to the charge of murder of Bongani Malinga?

PELELE L SHONGWE: When I arrived in court, I was granted bail and thereafter I went for the trail in Bethal and the Judge said there wasn't enough evidence, I should go home.  I also attended a trial for the  Malele case, I was granted a bail and it was also indicated that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute me and I came back for an inquest and I indicated that I knew nothing, and it was said that I should go home.

MR PATEL: The person you mentioned that was with you in White River, Pat whose surname is unknown, do you know where he is today?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Patel, tell me why is this application then made?  I don't follow why it is being made.  He is not at risk for prosecution?
	Indeed in one of the matters he has been at risk and acquitted?

MR PATEL: Mr Chairman, as I understood the position to be and you must bear with me, I took over these matters at a late stage, these things had been done already but as I understood in so far as Bongani Malinga was concerned, there wasn't an acquittal.
	It appeared to me to be more a withdrawal of a charge.  In so far as Ernest Malele is concerned, also a discharge after an inquest, it still leaves you at risk as far as I can recall.

CHAIRPERSON: I am not too sure that you are correct, but I suppose we are three quarters through his evidence, you might as well continue with it.  Carry on.

MR PATEL: As it pleases you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

MR PATEL: .

CHAIRPERSON: What has happened to the fifth count of theft of a firearm and ammunition?

PELELE L SHONGWE: As I have explained, I came across a drunk Police person and I robbed him of his firearm.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

PELELE L SHONGWE: It is because I wanted to defend the ANC members as well as the community.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kemp, have you got any questions?

MR KEMP: I have no questions, Mr Chairman.

MR KEMP: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Van der Walt?

MS VAN DER WALT: No questions, thank you.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo?

MR PRINSLOO: No questions, thank you.

MR PRINSLOO: .

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh?  You are earning your keep?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Shongwe, with regard to Bongani Malinga, this incident occurred on the 22nd of October 1993, is that correct?

PELELE L SHONGWE: That is correct.

MR HATTINGH: We have already heard evidence from one of the previous applicants that by 1993 things had calmed down to a fair extent, that there was no more fighting in Ermelo?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I would say the situation had not changed here.   I am one of the people who reside at Extension where the Black Cats were located.  I was not in the position to stay at home because the situation was still the same.
	Whoever says the situation was better, I want to say before this Commission, that is a mistake.

MR HATTINGH: I am not going to take it any further, apart from saying it is one of your co-applicants who said so.
	However, on that day when you killed Bongani, you said that he was together with another person, could you just repeat the name of the other person?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Would you please repeat the question.

MR HATTINGH: On the day that you killed Bongani Malinga, he was with another person.  What is the name of the other person?

PELELE L SHONGWE: He was with Bongi Mkhwanazi, a member of the Black Cats.

MR HATTINGH: All that happened in that incident was that you left your home, you ran towards Bongani Malinga and you shot him?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

PELELE L SHONGWE: He was a danger to members of the ANC Youth League as well as the community, such that in the instructions that we received, the instruction was such that we should identify dangerous people.  I saw him as a dangerous person because we could not communicate with him, instead he was harming members of the ANC as well as the community.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR HATTINGH: You considered him a dangerous person because of what he did to other members of the community?  Was that the only reason?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Apart from that, he did not want peace and we could not talk to him, he didn't want organisations to operate freely.
	For example, he didn't want ANC members to go and canvass for support at the Extension.  It was difficult to communicate with, he didn't have peace.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Shongwe, I would like to give you a further opportunity.  Were there any other reasons why you ran out of your house, ran towards Bongani and killed him, apart from the ones that you have now mentioned?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Would you please repeat, I do not understand you?

MR HATTINGH: I say I would like to give you a further opportunity of telling this Committee your reasons why you killed Bongani Malinga, apart from what you have already mentioned.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I would like to expand on this one.  I don't know whether that is permissible.

MR HATTINGH: Please.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I reside at Extension, we grew up together with the same Black Cat members.
	If a person wanted to continue residing at the area, a person had to join the Black Cats - I refused.  And I decided to leave the area, I went away to stay wherever.
	I was trying all my level best to communicate and talk to these people.  Many members who went to join the ANC, did that as a result of my effort trying to talk to them.  Instead he refused, he threatened to kill me and destroy the ANC, saying that Inkatha would be the final stamp here.
	I realised and took him to be a dangerous person in the township.  Our aim was to make sure that there was stability.
	These are some of the reasons that led me to killing him, he was stubborn and full of violence such that these other Black Cat members would after I have recruited them, I would actually ask them how they were doing things and tried to retrieve information about certain individuals within the Black Cats and they indicated to me how dangerous he was.
	I realised that he was going to harm the community even further, that is why I decided that such a person should die.

MR HATTINGH: Now your application form which we find on page 144 up to page 149 or 150, if you could just turn to those pages.

PELELE L SHONGWE: Which page, which area should I look for?

MR HATTINGH: Who completed this application form?

PELELE L SHONGWE: On page 134, this has to do with the murder of Obed and this doesn't involve me.

MR HATTINGH: Turn to page 144.  Is this your application form?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is my application.

MR HATTINGH: Who completed this form?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I did this myself, but I was being assisted by the people who were in my company because I do not know English quite well, that is why they were assisting me.

MR HATTINGH: Who were those people in your company?

PELELE L SHONGWE: These are some of the people who are here, applying for amnesty.

MR HATTINGH: In your supplementary statement which we find from page 151 and further, in particular on page 152.

PELELE L SHONGWE: On which page?