Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MR LEWIN: I would like to ask if you don't mind, some details. You have gone into great details about the injuries which you found, you saw on his body.  Just go back where the policeman said "se vir hom hy is opgehang".  Were you
HRV/MBIBA given/...
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given any more details, how he hanged himself or he is alleged to have hanged himself?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: They did explain to me how he hanged himself. They even showed me the rope, a very small rope like that of a sock.  It was around his neck.

MR LEWIN: So the marks, were there marks on his neck as well?  Were there marks?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: There were no marks around the neck.  There were only scars on the forehead, even on the sides, as even in the foot.

MR LEWIN: Would you, with your medical knowledge, expect there to have been marks on the neck, if he had hanged himself?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Can you repeat your question?  Especially in the hospital, I cannot understand clearly.

MR LEWIN: Would you expect there to be marks, if he had hanged himself, would the body show marks around the neck?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: There were no symptoms of any marks, there was just a small shoe lace, it was just around the neck.  There were no marks on the neck.

MR LEWIN: What did the post-mortem find?  You mentioned that a post-mortem was taken, what were the findings of the post-mortem?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Do you mean in the theatre, what do you mean?  After his death?  They came and collect me and the doctor was there. They wanted me to just to go and have a glance. I did look at him.  They were just - the head was cut and they did make stitches, until down to the stomach. They did not tell me anything.

MR LEWIN: You didn't see anything on the post-mortem certificate, what the cause of death was given as?
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GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: /...
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GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: I didn't have the death certificate, I was very confused, how could I even apply for the death certificate, even if I don't know how was he killed. I only saw the coffin.

MR LEWIN: Could I just ask one thing before handing over to other Commissioners, could I ask one question. Do you think your son killed himself?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: I do not think so.  Even the youth, they do not even think so. I do not think he can hang himself.  Even in his joining of the ANC he wanted to talk about unity and he told the people about the Bible.  I do not think of that.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much, Mrs Mbiba.

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma, I am going to ask the other Commissioners if they want to ask you questions.  Mr Malan?

MS MKHIZE: I want you to give some clarity.  Maybe is there a person who actually had a chance of doing some inquest besides yourself?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: At home they all looked at him and they realised that the body was actually damaged.  They did see him. They saw him.

MS MKHIZE: If I may further ask about what has been said by the police.  When you were looking closer to him, what did other people say, because some other people did look at the corpse.

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Those people who actually saw him, were surprised to see what has happened.  They questioned that of hanging himself, because he knows very well that it is now allowed.

MS MKHIZE: Yes, I understand that.  Maybe when they look at the neck, were there some scars or anything that indicated it?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: They were surprised because if he hanged himself, HRV/MBIBA that/...
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that string should have gone deeper into the flesh, and the very shoe lace that was used actually, it was just a small thing. It is something that was made out of wool, in fact.

MS MKHIZE: I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mamma, you mentioned in your evidence that Mathew Possa and Mr Bissos helped you. Was that with the inquest or was that just to get the body back?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: They assisted me in getting the corpse. That time he was still practising as an attorney, together with Bissos. Otherwise I wouldn't have got the corpse. They were refusing to release the corpse.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they attend any inquest on your behalf?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: I want to know, are you referring to members of the family, whether they do make any inquest or at home or not?

CHAIRPERSON: No, usually when someone dies and the reason for the death is not clear, the court usually has some kind of hearing with a magistrate presiding, so that they can begin to establish the cause of death.  Did the family members, together with Matthews and Bissos attend any case at court, where they could try to find out what had actually happened?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Yes, they did make an inquest.  They did even go to the magistrate court, but George Bissos and attorney Possa.  They actually denied there that no, this person did not hang himself.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the magistrate say at the end of all of that?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: I will give my son to give further explanation.

CHAIRPERSON: Before your son talks I will just ask him to take the oath, Mamma. Could you stand Mr Ndowe?
HRV/MBIBA MICHAEL NDOWE/...
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MICHAEL NDOWE: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may be seated.  Will you very briefly tell us what you know about the inquest, please.