Human Rights Violation Hearings — Upington — 1996-10-02

CASE NO: CT/04205/

MR POTGIETER: Good afternoon Mr Jacobs.  Do you hear me, do you hear the translation?

MR JACOBS: Yes I can understand perfectly.

MR POTGIETER: I am going to ask you to stand to take the oath.
JOHANNES JACOBS Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Thank you.  Doctor Wendy Orr will help you giving your evidence and I hand to her.

WENDY ORR: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Jacobs thank you very much for coming here today.  Who are the people with you?

WITNESS:  These are my two daughters.

WENDY ORR:  Thank you and thank you to your two daughters for coming here to support you today.  You are going to tell us about your grandson is that correct?

WITNESS:  Ja.

WENDY ORR:  Dikkie Jacobs

WITNESS:  Yes it is.

WENDY ORR:  Your grandson died in 1985 and you are going to tell us about the incidents leading up to his death but first can you tell us how old was he, was he at school, was he a member of any organisation?

WITNESS:  First of all, there is a mistake with the date.  Maybe I made the mistake.  The date was the 14th 1986.  First of all I want to tell you about our first tragedy, about his elder brother.  As he gave evidence on the 13th November his grandmother was there.  She fell on top of him and was injured, that was the first calamity that befell us.

WENDY ORR:  [Indistinct] ... at that meeting on the 13th November 1985 that we have speaking about today?

WITNESS:  Yes, yes ma'am it was at the meeting, the very same meeting.  Now talking about Dikkie, on the 14th in 1986 the police came, Dikkie was sleeping together with Bennie.  The mother was also sleeping.  The police came and woke them up.  They asked my wife, my wife asked what was going on.  The police said they had come to fetch my children because the 16th June was approaching, therefore they want to look after the school children so that no danger befalls them.  So we thought, you know, this is a good thing.  We then allowed them to take our children.  After the 16th passed, our children did not come back.  We went to look for our children.  It was on a Sunday, I do not remember the date.  They told us that we cannot see our children.  After that, we went back yet again.  The answer was they were not there.  We were then told that he is in Groblershoop.  We took the car and we went to Groblershoop.  We went there with our luggage.  When we got there we were told that we cannot see our child.  They were given orders for us not to see him.  We left clothing for the boy.  We did not say much because we were scared they were going to imprison us.  We went back, having spent so much money yet we did not see him.  When we went again we were told that he is present, he is there but we were not able to see them.  After that, it was clear that our son was to go back to school to write exams.  He then tried to liaise with his aunt who is sitting on my left.  I would like the lady here to give evidence.  I wonder if it is possible.

WENDY ORR:  We will ask her to give evidence when you are finished because we will have to swear her in first.  So you finish telling your part of the story and then we will let her talk.

WITNESS:  Yes, thank you.  As time elapsed, on a certain date that I cannot remember, we got a report that Dikkie has passed away in prison and they brought his clothes to us.  They told us that he had committed suicide.  We got up and then next morning we went to the police station.  When we got to the camp he was lying on a cement floor.  It was not where he had said, it was not where the police had said he had hung himself.  It was on a cement floor a distance from there.  We went closer to the corpse.  When we got to the corpse we looked at it, we saw no evidence that he had hung himself.  The T-shirt that they said he had used to hang himself was next to him.  We look at his neck time and time again and there was just no evidence that he had hung himself.  We looked at his stomach to see if it had not swollen up, it was flat.  His mouth was closed, his lips pursed together like someone who had just died.  When we went back they told us that he had, the corpse had to be taken to Bloemfontein for a post-mortem.  They told me that I would go with them.  When we went back to town we tried to find a lawyer.  We got a lawyer who was staying at the Upington hotel at the time.  We talked to the lawyer, he said he would represent us.  I have forgotten the lawyer's surname.  From there, we went to the police camp with the lawyer.  The lawyer then asked if they know Dikkie Jacobs.  The men that were there said yes.  They asked what had happened, they said he had hung himself.  The lawyer then asked that they show the lawyer and the grandparents the exact place where Dikkie had hung himself.  They said they would not be able to do that, they were given orders not to do so.  The lawyer said, as a lawyer it is his prerogative to see where Dikkie had hung himself.  They said they cannot go beyond the orders that had been given to them.  The case then began.  When the corpse was taken to Bloemfontein they told me that I could not go with after all.  Only the police would go.  They then went and came back.  When the case began, as the case went on, it was clear that the lawyer's representation was absolutely stunted because he did not see the place where Dikkie had hung himself.  This was a female lawyer from Cape Town.  This lawyer insisted that he could not continue the case without having seen the place where Dikkie had hung himself.  They then took the lawyer by himself, saying that we as grandparents could not go.  They took him allegedly to the place where Dikkie had hung himself.  After they had taken him, the case was postponed.  This lawyer never, did not come back.  Another lawyer took the case.  Maybe you know this lawyer.  This second lawyer also went to see the place where Dikkie was hung.  This lawyer said the people who were supposed to be prison warders are the people who murdered Dikkie.  The case was postponed yet again.  When this lawyer went to Windhoek for another case and he was killed there and that was the end of the case.

WENDY ORR:  [Indistinct] ... Anton Lubowsky?

WITNESS:  I do not remember the surname well but I think that is the name.  The lady here on my left will tell you.

WENDY ORR:  Before we hear from your daughter I just want to ask you a few questions about Dikkie.  How old was he when he died?

WITNESS:  He was 17 years of age.

WENDY ORR:  [Indistinct] ...  school, do you know what standard he was in?

WITNESS:  He went to school in a certain village, in standard 10.  He was in standard 10 in Dimbaza.

WENDY ORR:  Do you know if he was a member of any student organisation or any particular group?

WITNESS:  I do not know about his place of schooling but back home where he used to come for holidays, he was not a member of any organisation.  When the police said they came to protect him from June 16th, we thought that it is a good plan because he was a peaceful child from our perspective.

WENDY ORR: [Indistinct] ... Chairperson to administer the oath to your daughter so that she can tell us any additional information.

MR POTGIETER: Miss Jacobs, can you give us your full names please.
MATHILDA NONSAMI JACOBS Duly sworn states

MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated.

WENDY ORR: Mathilda can you give us any additional information you have about Dikkie and the time he was in jail?