Human Rights Violation Hearings — Worcester — 1996-06-24

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] thank you very much Mr Kariem. You have given us a very clear picture about how such a young man could  get caught up in activities and you had several weeks of detention in Victor Verster prison as well as here in Worcester.  It clearly made a very-very  vivid impression on you and your family which is still visible today.
I thank you for coming to tell your story, I have no questions Mr Chairperson.

DR BORAINE: Thank you, any other questions from any of Commissioners - Mr Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Just one matter - you explained that in the beginning of 1986, you attempted to return to school - was that - when was that.

MR KARIEM: That was the beginning of 1987.

ADV POTGIETER: You then mentioned you did not succeed in re-entering the school.

MR KARIEM: I could not enter any of these schools.  At the end of the final exams in 1986 we received forms for application for return to the school. I completed that form I was with a friend  Erna Abrahams.  And on that day we put our forms in together.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you pass your exams the previous year - you wanted to enter std 7?

MR KARIEM: No  I was in std 7 in 1987 but I failed in 1986.  I then applied for a - being   allowed again to school so that I could  std 7 again during that year.

ADV POTGIETER: No - no - do you think your detention and the whole history which you have sketched for us that this was the reason why you were not taken back to the schools.

MR KARIEM: During the school boycotts of 1985 and 86 I was very active.  We always called the school pupils together and there were a group of us, both of senior students who no longer wanted to take a high profile role because they felt the school committee was threatening them and would not re-allow them to write their exams at school so we thought we were std 6 - std 7, std 8's  and we all decided together that if the senior students in school  wouldn't do anything then we would have to begin trying to do something.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you think it was because of this?

MR KARIEM: The attitude of the school committee towards us as well as the principals was the reason why we could expect anything from them.   I then in 1987  permanently left school after I was refused admittance at various schools.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Dr Orr.

WENDY ORR: I don't have a question, I just want to make a comment and that is - on the role that  your mother played.  I think the mothers and  sisters and wives of South Africa have suffered so much and you are very fortunate to have a mother who fought so hard to get you out of jail, thank you very much.

MR KARIEM: Okay.

DR BORAINE: Mr Kariem, we have listened to an unfolding story of persecution if you like of children and we have recently celebrated Youth Day where the country sought to give its respect to young people and  the role that they have played in the past and the responsibilities which they have in the future.
I hope that despite the very bad experiences you've had as a youngster - 14 - 15 years old, that this will not take away from your commitment to justice and to helping this country -  make it possible for your children if you should have children and children who come after us, that they will not have the same treatment.  Thank you very much for coming and we wish you well in your future life, thank you.

MR KARIEM: ... the situation that we have today in our country, also in our town here in Worcester, the behaviour of the police in relation to our community,  as things are at the moment, the Truth Commission was started to make these things known.  We from the community still feel threatened - some times because of vehicle accidents because of violence with gangs and the police are involved.
 If you look at gang violence the police simply stands and watch how people murder one another and at the end of the day, once a person is shot, or once the person has died, then this person's family would ask questions and they are simply told that the police can't get involved in these kind of cases.
 I  really would like to know from the Commission if a police officer who is suppose to serve the community surely this person cannot just see that people murder one another without getting involved.

DR BORAINE: This is not an easy question.  So let me reply in English - would you mind if I reply in English.

MR KARIEM: No.

DR BORAINE: In South Africa we have moved from one system to another what we call a democratic system of Government.  We are in on your journey - we haven't arrived yet.  There are many people who saw the police as the enemy - a great deal of that  has changed.  Right now as we sit, the police are protecting this hall and protecting witnesses and protecting the Commissioners.  
 And we got to learn to change not only the police, but you and I as well that we are in a new situation, you are in a new country, we have to find one another and we have to develop a community trust so that we begin to built each other up rather than break each down.  That's not easy and that will take a very long time.  But it's really young people like yourself and others who have the future in your hands in order to try and move beyond where we have been in the past.
 There will still be problems, there will still be mistakes made, but it's not all on the one side.  There will be people who will break into homes, there will be people who steal, there will be people who murder, without a police force, we would be in chaos and in darkness.  What we got to find is a new way of approaching both from the community point of view and from the police point of view.
 And we are committed to a new transforming process, then there is some hope for all of us, but I appreciate your concern, I wish that we had time to discuss all of it, but there are people who are sitting waiting to come and tell their stories and we have given you a lot of time.  So I must now ask you to leave and thank you very much indeed - baie dankie.

MR KARIEM: Alles reg.