Special Hearings — Children's Hearings — 1997-05-14

WITNESS: My dream was that I told myself a long time ago that after I have matriculated   I'll go to technikon and I will do whatever I can to be a businessman on my   own, but all this didn't happen because of the situation I had to live in.  I   do understand what you're saying, you have a gift, but I still haven't got exactly   what your dream is. --- I would like to open a business of my own, like I would   like to have a big business, like I am gifted, I am one person who can build   things, make tiles, and all that.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Makozonkhe. Before I summarise just   one or two questions from me. You've said there was political violence in your   area. Who was this violence between? Who was involved in this violence?

WITNESS:   Black on black - ANC. It was ANC and ANC, because ANC got divided.

CHAIRPERSON: How were they divided?

WITNESS: They couldn't agree on one thing.

CHAIRPERSON: How did these two different groups come about - of ANC?

WITNESS:   There was a group which was planted in the township, and they came there just   to destroy the KwaNdengezi people.

CHAIRPERSON: Who were they planted there by?

WITNESS: We wouldn't know because   we don't even know the people who started this. They are now dead.

CHAIRPERSON: The previous witness said that one of the two groups seemed   to work with the police, and that it was the

CHAIRPERSON: KwaZulu Police, not the ordinary police.

WITNESS: That is

CHAIRPERSON: /correct.

CHAIRPERSON: correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were these Zulu police from, which police station?

WITNESS:   KwaNdengezi Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I just want to get some clarity. You said there was a   meeting at the church, and that one Comrade was killed at that meeting. Which   Comrade was that?

WITNESS: Khumbulani Msomi.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you said that you were waiting for his funeral.

WITNESS:   Yes, we waited until his funeral.

CHAIRPERSON: After his funeral there was violence.

WITNESS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: People shot at you from bushes.

WITNESS: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How many people were injured in that shooting? Do you have   any knowledge?

WITNESS: Many people got injured. And I don't think there was anyone   who was killed in that shooting, but many people were injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there ever a case about that shooting?

WITNESS: I don't have   knowledge of any case.

CHAIRPERSON: You then went on to tell us about the fact that things seemed   to quiet down and then you went back there

WITNESS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: In your statement you said there were peace negotiations and   there was some agreement reached between the differing organisations. Is that   right?

WITNESS: Yes, there was peace. There was peace, and people got together, and   I think they used this because they wanted us to think that it's over, and then   when they come back they'll kill us.

CHAIRPERSON: You then said that your cousin got killed in the

CHAIRPERSON: shooting there.

WITNESS: My brother.

CHAIRPERSON: /Khombiseni

CHAIRPERSON: Khombiseni.

WITNESS: Khombiseni Nzimande.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anyone else get injured or killed in that shooting on that   day?

WITNESS: I think there are people who were injured.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there any follow up cases or otherwise in relation to your   brother's killing?

WITNESS: They investigated but nothing happened afterwards. There   was a case in Pinetown, but that case ended up nowhere.

CHAIRPERSON: I can just tell you that our investigators have tracked down   the case of Khumbulani Msomi, but it is still under investigation today. We   have not yet followed up whether there was an inquest into your brother's death,   but our people will continue with their inquiries. Makozonkhe, thank you very   much for coming and sharing with us. You've given us a picture of what happened   in KwaNdengezi. We will obviously follow up that in much more detail. We will   investigate what happened, and how this group, the Amavaravara came into existence.   We also understand that there are still people from those groups who are around,   and that things are dangerous for you and others, and knowing that experience   makes it all the more important for us as a Commission to try and see what measures   we can come up with to prevent further violence, so that people like yourself   and your families can go back to your areas in peace. Thank you for coming here.

CHAIRPERSON: LUNCH ADJOURNMENT

CHAIRPERSON: /

CHAIRPERSON: ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: (Incomplete) ... Commission. There are people   from the Commission staff who are able to take statements. They were at the   back of the hall. If I can just ask them to wave their hands so you can see   who they are. Right there at the back. If anyone wants to make a statement please   will you contact those people at the back and they will try and take your statements.   Thank you.
The next witness will be Bhekisizwe Professor Mbanjwa from   Ephatheni. Good afternoon Bhekisizwe. If you can just put the headphones on   please. Can you hear me now?

BHEKISIZWE PROF MBANJWA: Yes, I can hear you.

CHAIRPERSON: You come from the Ephatheni area in Richmond,   and we welcome you here. Before you give your evidence if you could please just   stand to take the oath.

BHEKISIZWE PROF MBANJWA: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Please be seated. I will help you   with your evidence this afternoon. Now, you were born on the 10th of January   1974, is that correct?

WITNESS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we go into your story we would like to try and get a   picture of your family. Can you tell us about your parents? Are they both still   alive?

WITNESS: Yes, they are still alive, but I am staying with my father. My father   is at his home. We don't have our home. I am owning my own house now.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you married?

WITNESS: Yes, I am married.

CHAIRPERSON: And how many children do you have?

WITNESS: I have two children.

CHAIRPERSON: /Is that

CHAIRPERSON: Is that aged eight and one and a half years respectively?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is Sabelo Mbanjwa?

WITNESS: That's my child.

CHAIRPERSON: Your child. How old is Sabelo?

WITNESS: He is 13 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: He's 13 years old. Are you working at the moment?

WITNESS: I am   not working.

CHAIRPERSON: And are either your mother or your wife working?

WITNESS: My mother   is a pensioner, she is epileptic, and my wife is not working.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Now, the story you're going to tell us about happened   in July 1991. What was going on in the Ephatheni area at that time?

WITNESS: I will   start from the beginning. My mother left me with her brother. That was my uncle.   I grew up at my uncle's place. I was staying there with my grandfather ... (incomplete   - end of Side A, Tape 3) ... took care of me. I went on with my education even   though the situation was bad, and my uncles were working in Johannesburg, and   the other one was working for Hulett Company, and the other one was - I started   working at NPA. I left my uncles' place and I went and worked for a white man.   His name was English. I started working at Mr Gammon when I was 17 years old.   I could know stories about the Ephatheni area. I was no longer a hedge(?) boy.   My mother got me before she was married. I used to work from early age. That's   how I grew up until I became old, and when I was employed at Mr Gammon it was   because I was a soccer player, and he had a firm. I worked there. One day I   went visiting my home at Ephatheni. Violence began. I went visiting there. The   white man whom I was working at told me that there was violence in the Ephatheni   area.

CHAIRPERSON: /I went

CHAIRPERSON: I went visiting home. It was on Monday. I was a delivery boy,   so I brought maize meal at home.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.