Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-17

MR LE ROUX: As Cliffie.  I called him by his first name.

ADV BOSMAN: What was the culture in the AWB or to be more specific, within the Ystergarde, how did you address each other in general.

MR LE ROUX: We addressed each other on our ranks but at the Trim Park the first time we were called up in Ventersdorp, it was said by Leon van der Merwe: "From now on no more ranks, we only address each by names because we are moving into certain operations".

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

MS VAN DER WALT: With regards to that point to which the panel just asked you a question, Barnard, is it correct that he had another position than the normal member within head office or how did you see it?

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, there were several bomb explosions in Western Transvaal and those places, there was a leading up to this election and in that time certain AWB members launched operations, we knew that.  The small talk amongst ourselves showed that we knew that certain guys were responsible for it or that they gave the instructions and Barnard by coincidence was quite high up as far as the operational structure was concerned.

MS VAN DER WALT: You already testified that he had very close contact with Eugene Terreblanche.

MR LE ROUX: Absolutely.

MS VAN DER WALT: And the rest of the Staff Generals?

MR LE ROUX: I said before that Nick Prinsloo, General Nick Prinsloo was in charge of the Ystergarde and this was only with regards to the camp itself at the game farm, he was not the General of the Ystergarde itself.  I just want to rectify that.

MS VAN DER WALT: No, but Barnard, did he also have close contact with the rest of the Staff Generals?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, very close contact.

MS VAN DER WALT: You also made mention that you knew who the Generals were of the AWB and if there were  gatherings then the Generals would be present on stage or in front together with Eugene Terreblanche, what was the situation?

MR LE ROUX: That's correct, usually they'd sit on stage together with the leader of the AWB.

MS VAN DER WALT: You said that, and now we go back to the shooting range where the bomb was built, you said that Peugeot was a stolen car, was this Peugeot stolen during these operations which you executed?

MR LE ROUX: Whilst we were busy on Koesterfontein and when we got back we heard that this car was stolen.  We had a look at the car and the guys said that it was available for a bomb.  At that stage I did not exactly know where the car came from or how it was stolen, I only learnt about that during the Court trial.

MS VAN DER WALT: And during the Court trial you also heard that one of the accused, Mr Hattingh was found guilty of the theft of the car?

MR LE ROUX: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And he was sentenced according to that?

MR LE ROUX: That's correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: And Hattingh, is he: "weeskind"?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, that's him, he drove the car.

MS VAN DER WALT: And now you testified that the vehicle's flat tyre was prepared?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, it was quite late at night.  When I got back Barnard told me that I could sleep a little bit and he would wake me early the next morning so that we could go to Jan Smuts.
	We also then discussed where at Jan Smuts we'd plant the bomb.  It had to happen at the internal or international departure halls of the airport.  He said the reason for that was that if people from abroad came in, people who would assist the new government or to pay respects to them, that they would see that there is resistance against the whole election and anything that goes along with it.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was your purpose to create chaos before the election or not?

MR LE ROUX: Chairperson, I was told that we had to create chaos and we had to try and stop the election.  It was concerned with one thing and that was the obtaining of a volkstaat in the Western Transvaal area.

MS VAN DER WALT: Now the next day the bomb went out, is that correct?

MR LE ROUX: The morning very early ...[intervention]

MS VAN DER WALT: This is the Tuesday morning?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, the Tuesday morning very early Barnard woke me and there I found Johan du Plessis and also Jannie Kruger.  They were appointed to drive the bomb car and I would once again drive the leading car.  At that stage my car did not have a coil and I took a blue car from Jaco Nel who is also one of the applicants here today.  It was a blue Toyota car and I used it as the leading car ...[intervention]

MS VAN DER WALT: Sorry, were you driving alone?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, I drove alone.  We discussed the radio procedures, how we would talk to each other and exactly how we would drive at the airport.
	Johan du Plessis was a Commandant then and I explained to him that I'll take the exit just before the airport, I'd quickly swerve off and they had to continue on straight and close to the open parking area I would part and he must find a closed parking area at the building where the bomb would then also explode.

MS VAN DER WALT: So it was planned that it would happen at the parking area and not where there were a lot of people?

MR LE ROUX: Barnard also said this to me, that the bomb had to be in the parking area, we didn't want to kill foreigners.  It was a very definite instruction.

MS VAN DER WALT: And then you left for Jan Smuts?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, we drove to Jan Smuts.  It happened exactly as we planned.  I turned off just before we got to the airport, the bomb car followed the correct route and the top level of the airport is where he parked.
	I stopped right in front of the building, I got out and I did not know whether they could see me from where they were or not, that is Johan du Plessis and Jannie Kruger.  
	I walked towards the building to see where they were and whilst doing that I met Johan du Plessis half way and I asked him where Kruger was, he said that Jannie Kruger somehow got lost.  We then walked back to the vehicle.
	In the leading car I took out my stop watch, I took off my watch which I used as a stop watch and I said we'd wait two minutes and see if Jannie Kruger cannot find the guiding car.  In those two minutes the bomb exploded with a massive bang and I said we have to get away from there.  We drove towards the gates of the airport. 
	The security personnel at that stage, we didn't know it, but it seems to me they waited for me.  I saw them come running down the road.  We paid at the gate and we drove out.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did it seem to you that the security personnel were waiting for you?

MR LE ROUX: Because there were a lot of them, there were a great many of them, and the moment the bomb exploded they were running towards the bomb.

MS VAN DER WALT: And where did you go then?

MR LE ROUX: Then we discussed with Barnard that we'd meet up in Ventersdorp.  We then went to Ventersdorp and on the way there we heard on the radio that we were looked for and that they caught the guys at the shooting range at Waterkloof.

MS VAN DER WALT: So you did not return to Ventersdorp?

MR LE ROUX: No, we did not.   And then I was on the run for a few months.

MS VAN DER WALT: And later you were taken into custody?

MR LE ROUX: That is correct Chairperson.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were you at all influenced by certain leaders of the AWB to follow instructions and to have committed the deeds you have committed?