Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

DR MAGWAZA: me I don't like it.  I am not used to this kind of thing.  I have never seen a person being killed this way."  They didn't do anything to me, they respected me and they left.  I stayed there.  Later on, because this thing happened about four, and at around six I got worried about this person who was lying here.  I left and I went to the one who had grabbed him first.  I said, "But now the person you grabbed that person is still lying there.  It's better for us to go and call the police car so that they can take this person to the mortuary.  But now because he is lying there he needs our help.  Now he is dead there is nothing we can do."  The second thing, we had been called to the meeting that when we see such things we must try and hold together and work together, we shouldn't just leave these things.  And he respected me and we went to the other person who had also grabbed at him, and when I arrived at that person I found lots of people there.  And when I came in the other one said, "Hau, you men, are you crazy?  Why are you here?  Please get out of here.  Please get out of here, this is a meeting.  A meeting of ours like this one does not need a person like you."  I was confused, but anyway I managed to escape.  When he was still talking to me another child stood up and insulted me, and he grabbed at me and pulled me out of the door.  And I had a knobkerrie.  When he tried to hit at me I hit back with this knobkerrie.  The other one said, "Be careful of him, he's a dangerous person when he's got his knobkerrie."  They took my knobkerrie.  That's where they stabbed at me, stabbed me all over.  I didn't even see how I was stabbed and by who because there were lots of them.  But later on they stabbed me, they stabbed me and pushed me towards the door.  That's where I fell and they finished off with me.  I could hear that they had finished with me and I couldn't get up there, and I thought I was going to follow the other guy they had stabbed.  While I was still lying there there were two people who tried to help me.  They put me next to the street.  That's where I got some kind of assistance, but I was unconscious ... (inaudible) .. my mind had escaped me and I was confused according to how I had been stabbed.  I think I was just fortunate, I managed to get up again and walk towards home.  When I arrived home they nursed me.  I couldn't even go to the doctor on that day as it was on the 17th, and on the 18th, the following day, and on the 19th.  There was no way I could go.  On the 19th this Thembi arrived with Cele at night.  They said to me, "Hau, you survived."  I said, "Yes, I survived."  They said, "You've very fortunate in what happened to you there."  And the other one said, "No, it means you are a Xhosa indeed, you are not part of this group.  But we had told you you were going to follow up this other person who died."  That was about nine.  And then they left.  After they had left it was nine, it was 10, and 11.  At 12 the petrol bomb came in.  My whole house was surrounded.  They hit my house.  They petrol-bombed my house, and there were bullets all over.  There were lots of bottles inside the house.  But what I really saw, they were burning - they hit them.  When they hit them they were burning, but when they fell inside the house they stopped, the fire was extinguished.  I think because of this what happened as an inyanga my house was protected, because petrol bomb it's weaker than the muthi.  That is why I didn't die.  That is why the petrol bomb didn't explode into my house.  It's because my house was protected with the medicine.  They disappeared into the darkness.  They disappeared into the darkness, and I was worried because I thought my children would die because of the smoke.  I tried to pull them outside.  They came back.  When they came back the second time they tried to burn my house.  They kicked my door.  The door opened and they pushed themselves in.  They went into the house and they were thrown outside.  They tried to push themselves in, but every time they would be thrown outside.  They went outside to my four cars and they lit them up.  As the cars were burning I managed to get out of the house as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.  If we say order, please listen.  Every person must be given the opportunity to tell us his story.  Please don't interrupt.  If you don't want to listen it would be better to go out, because we are here to listen to the stories, to listen to everybody.  Please don't interrupt.  When I ask for order please do respond properly.  I wouldn't want to ask you to leave, because we have to be given the opportunity of hearing each person's story.  Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: You can continue, Sir.

WITNESS:   When they came for the second time they tried to carry on with their mission, but they just stopped.  They went out to my cars and they lit the cars.  All the cars were burning, and during that time I managed to get out of the house.  I don't want to make any mistake here.  One of them saw me and he said, "Is this person still alive?"  One of them said, "Get aside.  You didn't kill him inside his house, you will never kill him outside."  I went out and I left the house.  I left everything in that condition and they removed themselves from my premises.  I came back to have a look at the damage.  The house was still all right, but the cars were burnt.  And I went into the house.  I said, "If I die I would die in my house."  I stayed at my house until 6 o'clock in the morning.  I was wide awake throughout the night.  At about 6 o'clock a car arrived at my place.  It was from KwaMashu, a person whom I cured.  This person helped me a lot, because he took me to the police to report that my cars have been burnt.  While busy giving the statement an investigator, Ntshangase, arrived, and I said to him, "Ntshangase, I was hurt, I was injured at home, as you see me here.  I want to give my statement in.  I was attacked last night, but before I was attacked I actually rescued a person who nearly got killed."  The investigator was really surprised to hear that.  And I said to him, "I don't know, because things are now bad."  The investigator, Ntshangase, went direct to my place.  He came back and he said to me, "There is nobody at home.  You have just said to me that your children were at home, but they were not at home."  And I went back home.  It was true, my children were not at home.  Well, I left the statement, I searched all over the place for my children.  They were with my brother at Mbhambhayi.  Every time there was harassment at my family they would run away to see their uncle.  I came back to give my statement.  I was there throughout the day until it was dark.

DR MAGWAZA: Can I please interrupt you?  Can you please summarise?  Can you summarise your story?  Say everything you want to say, but summarise.

WITNESS:   On my way back from the police station to give them my statement I was going straight home.  My house was now in flames.  My house was completely burnt down.  That was the end of the 19th.  I escaped because one of my friends helped me to escape.  I went to section B.  I only stayed one day at section B.  There was also fighting.  I don't know what the fighting was all about.  I moved over to the place where I now stay.  Since my arrival in December in 1990 I never left that place any more.  That is where I am based now.  As I have already explained to you that was my story.  I never took any initiative to lay a charge.  I didn't know what to say, because nobody was there to be charged.  I thought it was unwise to lay a charge against a person whom I do not know, but I only pray to God to strengthen me, and I am grateful that I survived.