Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-09-10

VUYISILE MKETSU: They made me very angry, because what I didn't like was the conflicts in our society being one nation, black people.  That made me very angry.  Most especially Mr Nongwe burnt down my house during those conflicts.
	That actually made me very angry, that is why I took a decision that I would never sit with Mr Nongwe in a meeting.

MS GOSO: Of course you have every right to be still angry with them.  Isn't it?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I was forced because of the way I saw the whole situation, I looked at the whole situation because if we are discussing our own matters, there is no need to have another member from another Organisation.  I asked the PAC members why was Mr Nongwe there, I never got any answer.
	Instead Mr Nongwe responded and he actually ordered me to go out.

MS GOSO: These are all the things, a combination of all these factors that make you still feel quite angry with the Organisation, isn't it?

VUYISILE MKETSU: Yes, certainly.  Yes, that is true.

MS GOSO: Can we pass on.  Do you, what do you understand to be meant by a roll call?

VUYISILE MKETSU: The roll call is for people who are at a meeting, it records how many members attended, how many members in a Unit and it also counts how many people who have joined the Organisation from the receipt book.  The receipt book and the roll call goes together.

MS GOSO: And a roll call is some kind of document, yes or no?

VUYISILE MKETSU: It is a book.

MS GOSO: And a book is a document, yes or no?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think you should worry about that.  Nobody can disagree with that.  It is recorded in writing.

MS GOSO: I take the point Mr Chairman, I am passing on to another point.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS GOSO: Now that you have since left the Organisation, you have no knowledge who keeps their documents containing membership, do you?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I had knowledge, when I became the vice Chairman, I handed over some of the things to the Committee, to Mr Goco who became the Chairman.

MS GOSO: I will repeat what I am putting to you.  Now that you are no longer within the Organisation, you have no knowledge who keeps this information containing names of members, isn't it?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I don't have any knowledge, I handed over to Goco.  I gave him everything about the membership because he was a Chairman at the time.
	I left everything with him.  I was not handling anything because I became the vice Chairman.

MS GOSO: Mr Mketsu, when I consulted I was given names of houses of members of PAC that were attacked during the conflict and your name is amongst those people.
	You were one of the people whose houses were attacked during that time, yes or no?

VUYISILE MKETSU: That is correct.

ADV SANDI: But he also said he believes his house was burnt by Mr Nongwe, Mr Nongwe attacked his house.  That was part of his evidence of that aspect?

MS GOSO: I am building up towards canvassing that point Mr Member.  There were other members of the PAC whose houses were attacked during that time, isn't it?

VUYISILE MKETSU: That is correct.

MS GOSO: This seems to have been an attack not just on your house alone, but on a number of PAC members by people and my instructions are, these people were not known who they were, that is what the last witness has said.  Do you agree with that?
	A number of members of the PAC, their houses were attacked by - there was a combined attack during more or less the same time?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I agree with the statement that says that the houses were being attacked, but the attack was not directed to PAC.  I knew in my heart that the person behind these attacks, was Mr Jeffrey Nongwe and whatever was happening at the time, I knew very well that it was Mr Nongwe who was behind this whole thing of attacking the houses.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that the houses of people other than PAC were also attacked?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I am certain that it was not only, the attack was not directed to PAC members only.  Everyone at Unati area was attacked, everyone was being attacked, not only the PAC members.

MS GOSO: Can you give us names of other houses?  I am sorry Mr Chairman, maybe the Interpreter is not finished yet.

INTERPRETER: Finished.

MS GOSO: Can you give us names of people that you know, whose houses were attacked during that time, who were not PAC?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I will talk about something that happened at that time.  I didn't take it as if it is happening to me because I was a member of the PAC.
	I was the first person to be attacked, it was late in the night.  I can't recall the time, I phoned Mr Mageduka and I told him that my toilet window was hit.  Mr Mageduka came to my house.
	While he was still inspecting this window, Mrs Mkumbusi phoned and she told us that she was being attacked in her house, but I didn't take this as the attack that was directed to PAC members.  I took this attack as if they were attacking the houses in general.

MS GOSO: My question was asking for just one thing, the names of other people, other than PAC members whose houses were attacked during that time.

CHAIRPERSON: There were a number of people whose houses - I understand a number of people's houses were attacked.  Do you know the names of all the people, or do you just know that people's houses were attacked?  Do you know the names of all the people whose houses were attacked?

VUYISILE MKETSU: All I knew was that the houses were being attacked.  I don't know all the names of the people whose houses were being attacked.
	All I knew was that there was a general attack on houses, on people's houses, not directed only to PAC members.

MS GOSO: The majority of the names that you have mentioned in your evidence today, happens to be PAC members, yes or no?

VUYISILE MKETSU: No.  I don't look at it that way, because there were a lot of people's houses that were being attacked.  I don't see it that way.

MS GOSO: I am just saying in your evidence in court here, not in court, during this hearing here today, you have mentioned names of people whose houses were attacked during that time, and in the names that you have mentioned, the majority of those names are PAC members?

VUYISILE MKETSU: It was myself and Mangwanya, but I didn't see it as the attack that was directed at PAC people, because they were just hitting the houses randomly.
	The reason for me to mention Mkumbisi's name, it is because she phoned me and she said she was also being attacked, just after my house was attacked.  I knew very well that she was a member of the PAC but I knew that she was not being attacked because she was a member of the PAC.
	She was being attacked because she happened to be in the house.

MS GOSO: Do you know Ms Nyangweni?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I know Ms Nyangweni, but I didn't get her story in full, but I know her.

MS GOSO: Do you know Noluyolo?

CHAIRPERSON: Can you spell that for me please?

MS GOSO: Noluyolo.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

VUYISILE MKETSU: I know her.

MS GOSO: Do you know whether her house was attacked during that time?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I am not sure, I did not hear anything like that.

MS GOSO: Do you know Mr Makoeto's sister, do you know that her house was attacked during that time?  She was attacked during that time?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I won't say at that time, because the battle of the houses started in 1991 and it was quiet in 1992 and then it started again in 1993, but I can't actually specify what period it was, but I heard something like that, but I am not sure whether it happened during the first conflict or the second one.
	Because even then they were just attacking randomly, they were not selecting.

MS GOSO: And of course you know that she was a PAC member?

VUYISILE MKETSU: I know that.

CHAIRPERSON: You are not suggesting that PAC houses exclusively were attacked, are you?

MS GOSO: My instructions are that there was an attack on PAC members' houses.

CHAIRPERSON: Exclusively?

MS GOSO: Yes, a concerted effort.