Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — UNKNOWN

MR MOOSA: So what you are saying is the whole plan was laid out there, it was done between you, Mr van Rensburg, and was anyone else present?

DIRK COETZEE: No it was only between myself and Mr van Rensburg.

MR MOOSA: And was a date, plus/minus, that was set for these events to occur?

DIRK COETZEE: No the agreement was that he would contact me up-front and let me know of a date.

MR MOOSA: You mentioned a car of Mr Kondile, would you tell us about that, where was the car at the time?

DIRK COETZEE: It was parked in one of the police garages in Jeffrey's Bay, and I said it was a two door Stanza and I said I think the colour to be light green or light blue, but it later proved to be yellow I believe.

MR MOOSA: Were you contacted about the Komatipoort expedition that was arranged in detail?

DIRK COETZEE: The first time I was contacted again was by Brigadier Schoon when he instructed me to pick up the drops from Lothar Neethling and proceed to Komatipoort and team up with Archie Flemington, Major Archie Flemington, the then branch commander of Lebombo or Komatipoort then Security Branch, where Mr Nick van Rensburg would join us.

MR MOOSA: Could you tell us who else was present at Komatipoort, let's divide it into first people from the Eastern Cape besides Mr van Rensburg whom you've mentioned?

DIRK COETZEE: The first to arrive there was myself and one of my staff members, then W/O Paul van Dyk from Pretoria.  Major Archie Flemington joined us with two of his men and later on towards late afternoon Mr van Rensburg, Mr Herman du Plessis and Mr Jan Raath, together with Kondile arrived and Kondile had a balaclava on and was handcuffed.

MR MOOSA: You had already arranged for the body of Kondile to be burnt, not so?

DIRK COETZEE: That was discussed at the time when the car was stolen, that's correct, how the body would be disposed of.

MR MOOSA: And the wood and tyres and so that were brought, tell us how that happened?

DIRK COETZEE: That was - the wood and tyres was carried or driven to the scene by the two non-commissioned officers of Major Archie Flemington with a 4X4 vehicle which belonged to Security Police at Komatipoort Security branch.

MR MOOSA: There has been mention of a Sergeant Otto who did the shooting, have you any comment on that?

DIRK COETZEE: I have lately, after the allegations, seen a photo of Roy Otto.  I have never met him in my life and he was a hundred percent not for sure, not the person who pulled the trigger.  I have never met him in my life and he wasn't present.

MR MOOSA: For the record could you describe the person we all know that you didn't have a name for that person?

DIRK COETZEE: A slender, tallish, light hair, built person which was a sergeant or a warrant officer.

MR MOOSA: Could you perhaps help us to fix a date of this event, of the assassination of Sizwe Kondile?

DIRK COETZEE: I can't be specific but on evidence coming out in the Lothar Neethling trial and at the Harms Commission it would have been late October, beginning November, the first week in November.

MR MOOSA: And when the gun was used to shoot Mr Kondile was there a silencer or was there not?

DIRK COETZEE: It was a Russian made Makarov pistol which belonged to Major Archie Flemington with a silencer on.  The same gun which was used to kill Peter and Vusi some weeks earlier.

MR MOOSA: You have previously stated that it was actually taken from Major Archie Flemington and then used, is that right?

DIRK COETZEE: That is correct, by this junior officer of his.

MR MOOSA: Tell us whether you heard anything else about this plan to leave the car at the Swaziland Holiday Inn after the event or perhaps on that day.

DIRK COETZEE: Yes, it was originally discussed that I would have taken care of the car too, but on arrival Mr van Rensburg confirmed that the job has been attended to by Lt Chris Deetlefs and Sgt Chris Rorich of Ermelo Security branch.

MR MOOSA: Your counsel has mentioned something about a stop-over on the part of the Eastern Cape policemen in Ermelo do you know anything about that?

DIRK COETZEE: It wasn't specifically mentioned how long they stayed but it was obviously that they did stop over, for how long I can't say Mr Chairman.

MR MOOSA: Mr Chairman I believe those are the areas I want to raise.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jansen are there any questions you wish to put?

MR NYOKA: Just one question, one question Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR NYOKA: Did you suggest that the body, rather than be left on the Mozambican side should be burnt to any person present?

DIRK COETZEE: There was no plan to leave the body on the Mozambican side, it was originally discussed on the night that I stole the Audi that the body would be burned to ashes and it was obvious to me that that would have been the first time that Mr van Rensburg had witnessed or got first hand knowledge of this method to be used.  But it was my suggestion that's correct, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NYOKA

JUDGE PILLAY: Is that why the wood was kept in preparation as it were?

DIRK COETZEE: That is correct Mr Chairman, it was done in advance.

ADV GCABASHE: Was there any particular reason why you suggested this method of disposing of the body?

DIRK COETZEE: Well Mr Chairman I first came into contact with this method in the former Rhodesia where we, as dog-handlers, assisted the Rhodesian police in getting rid of the freedom fighters that were shot in ambush, identified and then eventually were buried in shallow graves, they were just partly mutilated until their hands, face and feet were burned away and then they were covered in shallow graves.  That's where I first made contact with this type of method.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Booyens are the questions you wish to put to this witness?

MR BOOYENS: Mr Coetzee let us just get a few preliminary things clear.  The stop-over in Ermelo of which you can't remember the detail, that's what you testified, is that correct?

DIRK COETZEE: That's correct Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Could have been a stop-over to buy a meat pie.

DIRK COETZEE: It could have Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: Not necessarily a stop-over to sleep there.

DIRK COETZEE: No Mr Chairman.

MR BOOYENS: And something which you might remember but if I had been travelling on that route and perhaps stopped over to put in petrol, buy a meat pie I might not even remember, so nothing was significant about the stop-over?

DIRK COETZEE: No Mr Chairman, except what was told to me.

MR BOOYENS: Now if it was so insignificant, 18 years later and you remember it.

DIRK COETZEE: Well there's some things I remember vividly.  It would have been my job to take the car through to Swaziland Mr Chairman, and then it was obvious that Mr van Rensburg took the planning over further as he was based apparently at Ermelo and I was there for quite a long while with him in the area.

MR BOOYENS: No Mr Coetzee but the question is simply, and please listen to my question.  Why is it that you remember something as insignificant as a stop-over in Ermelo which had nothing to do with the Cape ...(intervention)

MR JANSEN: No Mr Chairman I object to this question.  It's factually incorrect.  There was never been mention made of a stop-over in Ermelo, not as a direct piece of evidence.  It was made by way of assuming that because of the reference or the alleged reference to Deetlefs and Rorich that there was an assumption that there was a stop-over in Ermelo. I am not aware of any piece of record of Mr Coetzee putting it in any other way.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Coetzee said so just now Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: He remembers referring to the fact that there was some mention of the stop-over.  The significance of it is what - he admits that there was no real significance in the mention of the stop-over.  Mr Booyens you may proceed.