Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

MR VEAREY: I got feedback from some of my colleagues who were attending the hearing on Monday that an allegation was made that I had offered Captain Benzien a job and my statement is to address that particular thing as I see that it is an attack on my particular integrity as a person and as a police Officer.
	Could I ask Your Honour, that the exact record perhaps be read of that particular statement.  I was not present here, I would just like to have an idea of what the exact wording was and what was said in particular?

CHAIRPERSON: By Mr Benzien?

MR VEAREY: By Mr Benzien.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you recall in what context Mr Vearey's name was mentioned.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, I am reading, Senior Superintendent Jeremy Vearey approached me a year ago to ask for a transfer to the Intelligence Unit of the South African Police, to assist them.  I asked him whether it was in connection with politics and if it was the case, I was not interested.  These were only two sentences.

MR VEAREY: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You have heard that Mr Vearey?

MR VEAREY: Yes, that is correct.  I deny that I have made any such requests to Captain Benzien.
	When I did see Captain Benzien about a year ago, early in last year, I was at that time busy with an investigation into some crime family in the Northern Suburbs and I was informed given his past experience in Murder and Robbery, he would be able to make a substantial contribution to some information that I might require in relation to that inquiry.
	I do recall that at that occasion, I did tell Mr Benzien - raised some issue regarding whether or not I feel comfortable with the past that the two of us had together, that past being the fact that he was part of the team that arrested me in 1987 and he was also part of the team for the first session, that actually questioned me.
	In that regard I told him at that particular occasion, when I met him last year, that I have no personal grudges, I bear no personal grudges against him.	Those are the two references to our only conversation we have had in early last year.  
	I want to add that I was neither in a position at that point in time, in the South African Police Service to have offered him a position at all in any rational way.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything else?  Is that all you wish to say?

MR VEAREY: That is all I wish to say Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, your statement is recorded, thank you.
	Mr Cook, I understand that it is your intention to make an application at this stage?

UNKNOWN: That is indeed the case.  I spoke to you in Chambers this morning and I told you what the situation was.  I would like to place it on record.    I would like to confirm it without going into the full particulars, but just to make it part of the record, at this stage, I request a postponement on behalf of my client to be able to place certain documents before the Commission and to call certain witnesses.
	What it amounts to is that I would like to put before the Commission, the chain of command.  Several questions were asked by the victims and documents were handed in as Exhibits and my client was expected to answer certain things which he was not able to do by virtue of his junior rank at the time and by virtue of the fact that he didn't have access to this privileged information and policy forming.
	I consulted a Senior Officer last night, a Senior Officer in the South African Police, he is a General and he is prepared to come forward and to admit that there was a chain of command which came from the top.  And that unconventional methods were indeed used, or could be used and that they were authorised to do so.  It is important that my client be given that opportunity to place that information and evidence before the Commission.  At this stage he is being left out on a limb and it is only fair that the Senior Officers must now realise the consequences of their actions and that they come forward to face those.
	The second part of my application deals with the fact that I wanted to submit a psychiatric report.  The Psychologist told me that she could not at this stage, provide the Commission with the necessary information apart from a short summary and she would like to have follow up consultations with Mr Benzien to be able to provide the necessary background information and a properly formulated finding.
	I think that it is in the interests of truth that this information be placed before you and I therefore request you to adjourn these proceedings to give my client that opportunity.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: This request obviously involves the matter which is set down, or was about to be set down in connection with the application of Mr Liebenberg as well?

MS INTHANGA: Yes, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You did indicate a date to which we might postpone this application?

MS INTHANGA: Yes Chairperson.  The matter will be heard from the 17th of October and it will continue to the following week.

JUDGE WILSON: That is Friday the 17th?  Why do you propose starting on the Friday?

MS INTHANGA: It is because we will be hearing hearings in that week Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Pardon?

MS INTHANGA: We will be having hearings on the Guguletu Seven from the 13th which is on Monday, to the 16th.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I beg your pardon, yes.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, I am not available on the 17th of October, I am in High Court.  If you could adjourn it to the 20th, the next week, that would suit me.

CHAIRPERSON: That is the Monday?

UNKNOWN: The Monday, yes.

MS INTHANGA: That will be fine with us as well, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  This doesn't clash with any other matter that is set down for the 20th of October, does it?

MS INTHANGA: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  This application is adjourned.  Mr Papier, you have an interest in this matter?

MR PAPIER: I do Honourable Chair, and we have no objection to the postponement.

CHAIRPERSON: No objection to the postponement?  This matter is now postponed and we will resume on the 20th of October, 1997 and we will continue until we have finished it.

MR PAPIER: As the Chair pleases.

UNKNOWN: As it pleases the court.

CHAIRPERSON: There are people present here who have been implicated who have asked questions of Mr Benzien -can I have your attention please, those who were involved in putting questions to Mr Benzien.
	You have heard what has been said and I want to tell you that this application is now postponed until the 20th of October and we will try and dovetail this application in such a way that Mr Liebenberg whose name has also been mentioned and who has applied for amnesty, that that application will also be considered as soon as we can immediately after Mr Benzien's application.
	So this is notice to all of you who may be interested to attend the matter will proceed now on the 20th of the October.
	If they are not here, if the interested parties are not here, and I don't know whether they are, Mr Papier would you kindly assist in conveying this to them.

MR PAPIER: I will indeed do my best Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Will the evidence leaders make sure that all the implicated persons are told.  Mr Papier and Mr Cook and Miss Lulama, it is likely that a number of documents may be used at the resumed hearing and we suggest that a convenient be fixed with counsel so the equivalent of a pre-trial conference is held so that documents may be handed in by consent without the need to call relevant witnesses and where possible to eliminate the need to call witnesses if their evidence is good, it can be handed in by consent.
	Mr Cook, will you endeavour to sort that out?

UNKNOWN: Indeed My Lord.