Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I said to you white man, the directive that we got is that our operation should be unique, it should be different from purely a criminal, therefor if we involved the element of fire - and another thing is this, as we are fighting the powerful enemy as I have already referred you to the history of our great grandparents.  If the nation can make fire it's automatically obvious that nation can liberate the country.  That's why we decided to destroy everything that belongs to them.

MR PRIOR: ...(inaudible) you said that you were powerful by using fire and burning the vehicle and so on.  No, I just understand now, it's fine.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman I will proceed to paragraph 13,
"On coming over the bridge we drove
almost 2 - 3 kilometres from the bridge 
and abandoned the car undamaged with
it's keys.  Then we went to our RV for 
briefing and we handed the arms to 
Letlapa and went back to our respective 
places of residence as I was residing in 
Jozannas".  
Now can you explain the to Committee where was your RV,  please, where you had your briefing?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Let me put it this way, when you are talking about the RV, are you referring to our meeting place?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: After we had finished, after we had accomplished your mission we went back driving in a car.  We abandoned the car on the other side of the bridge.  We went to the bus-stop, that's where we were waiting for the car.  We had out debriefing there, because even this other Comrade was there because we were staying at different places.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr, Chairman, last point at paragraph 14,
"The transport we were using as a getaway car was a bottle-green Datsun 1600.  In this attack one person died.  The Commander of this operation was Letlapa."
Can you explain the transport you were using as a getaway car was a bottle-green Datsun.  What do you mean by that?  Did you have a getaway car?  Can you explain this paragraph to the Committee, paragraph 14?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: It is like this, when we left the scene of the operation we moved to the bus-stop where we were going to meet.  The other Comrades that I was not staying with, they were going to take the firearms with them.  As I was staying alone I would take a taxi, that's why I am referring to a getaway car.

MR LAX: That's the same car you referred to earlier in your evidence that took you to the place where you obtained the vehicle that you then drove to the bridge, is that right?

CHAIRPERSON: Who was driving it?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: There was a Comrade called KK, Oupa, I don't know his other name.  It's not Xhosa, Mr Chairman.

MR LAX: ...(inaudible) Khotle, who we've heard about in other matters?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: It's not Xhosa.  It's not Khotle, it's Oupa KK.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Gqomfa, what else do you want to tell this Committee?  Anything that you have left out regarding this incident, what happened during this operation?   Is there anything maybe you have left out, you want to mention it to the Committee?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: There's one thing I would like to clarify concerning this operation.  I'm sure everybody knows the way we were oppressed as a nation, more especially the Africans.  There are many things that took place, more especially the Africans at large, things that were ...(indistinct) by the Government of the day.  If people can remember there were even laws that were passed where the Africans would be placed in the reserved areas, the remote areas.  With the aim of surplus labour for the farmers and the other industries that were in there.  And another purpose was to make sure that they subsidise the wages of the migrant workers.  In order for them to control the influx of the Africans, as they made the Africans strangers in their own land, they were saying that the Africans cannot stay in this land because the land was too hot and they cannot go the Heaven, because Heaven is too far also.  The industrial areas called BIC or RIC were established, Border Industrial Corporations or Reserved Industrial Corporations.  There was a law that was passed that a white man will always be a manager and a black man will work under him, but when you look at this thing, this person was actually managing the oppression of the Africans, because the Africans, the aim was to keep the Africans away.  We were doing those operations, my political understanding is that we were doing those operations due to those reasons, those factors.  Concerning the families of the deceased, it would be painful if they are not here today.  I sympathise with them because of such actions, because when a person dies, it's quite a big thing, and we know that it's very easy to destroy a life of a person.  It's very difficult to bring the life of a person back.  I would request the gentleman to pass that message to the families, the mother and the children and the relatives.  I shall end there.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That is all, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Are you saying - I hear you saying now at the time that you killed Mr Smit there near the Mayaphuti Bridge that you have the same feelings for him, or did you have no feeling for him at that time - I just want to get this clear in my mind - at the time that you killed him, did you have those same feelings, but you were just carrying out our instructions, or did you have no feeling for him because of your political objectives, beliefs and your ideologies?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I'm detecting from the principal ...(inaudible), but I'm also a person and all the cadres are also people.  I'm passing this message as a human-being.

MR PRIOR: At the time that you fired into his body with your R5, while he was sitting there, did you feel, well, look he's also a human-being, I sympathise with them, but I'm doing my job as a soldier, or did you have no feeling for the man when you shot him through the body?  I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Where I'm coming from, how?

MR PRIOR: What was in your mind, what was going through your mind at the time that you shot this man?  He was sitting there in front of you, he couldn't go anywhere.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Let me put it this way.  My feeling was that I was very angry.  How?  First of all, is that the two people survived.  If they can lead - I'm an African, my life had no value in this country.  Anyway, that today, as an African, my life is in their destiny.  What I had at that time, is what I'm telling you.  That's what happened at that time.

MR LAX: Sorry, we're having great difficulty hearing the translation.  There's a lot of feedback.  Solly, I see you at the back there trying to sort something out.  The feedback is really quite difficult to hear what the translator is saying.
	Just talk please translators, let's just hear you say a few words.

TRANSLATOR: Can you hear me now?

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	I just want to know at that time, were you simply carrying out the orders of Letlapa Mphahlele when you shot this man sitting on the ground, or did you do so because you wanted to kill him, as a white man you saw him as the enemy, you had hatred towards him, you had no respect for him?  That's what I am trying to distinguish - were you simply carrying out an order, or are you saying because of your political beliefs or feelings towards the white oppressor, those were the reason why you shot and killed him.  Do you understand what I'm driving at?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: ...(no English translation).

MR PRIOR: It's between the two choices I'm giving you.