Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-02

CHAIRPERSON: Was he there when you people were filling in forms?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, he was sitting next to me and three of us filled in the forms.  It was myself, Vushi Basinbata and Mzwake Ernest Buthelezi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shane there are issues relating to two other people, now I don't know their names.  Will you file a similar question in respect of those two names?

MR SHANE: Certainly, besides Mzwake, or let's dealing with Mzwake first.  You saw him filling in a form, is that correct?

VICTOR WANDA MUCHACHO MABASO: Yes, I saw him, because we were advising each other, reminding ourselves, reminding one another about the incidents.  We were discussing and I saw him, I'm a witness to that he filled in the form, he applied for amnesty.  And I'm the one who went to fetch him where he was, I wanted him to come and apply for amnesty.  He knew nothing about this process.  I explained everything to him and on Saturday we filled in the forms.

MR SHANE: And do you know what happened to your form after you filled in your application?  Who did you give it to?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know if he is able to say how those forms were processed afterwards.  Let's get onto those other two names summarily.

MR SHANE: Mr Chairman I am also unaware of the other names that - We won't, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Irrelevant, okay.

MR SHANE: If I can leave it at that, sir.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHANE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp maybe you can ask those questions.

ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman as far as I am concerned, and I will beg leave maybe if I'm just waiting for some detail regarding the other two applicants.  As far as I understand they're not directly involved in the specific incident.  I doubt very strongly if this applicant will be able to tell us, but if you will allow me just one second I will just get the correct details of these applicants.  Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman the position as far as I understand is that there was an application form, or two application forms, missing.  The one application form apparently is from this applicant.  I'm not aware if my learned colleague is aware of that.  I take it that can be sorted out and taken care by himself.  The other application form is the application form of the applicant who was stood down yesterday Mr Chairman, it was Mr Victor Mbatha.  It was different Mbatha Mr Chairman but it seems that there are no people who are available here whose applications are missing.  It's just the question of application forms, they filled in more than one application form.  But what I suggest Mr Chairman, we'll get the correct details the ...(indistinct) stood down.  I'm informed that this applicant will not be able to assist us in that regard.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV STEENKAMP: I've nothing further for this applicant Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I hope by lunchtime those we are complaining about these things are able to give us proper information.  We're not here to trace things.  I'm going to adjourn for 10 minutes for that purpose, before we excuse this witness.

ADV STEENKAMP: Thank you Mr Chairman.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR SHANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, insofar as this applicant before you, there is nothing further that we, that is his case, thank you sir.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SHANE

CHAIRPERSON: And no further applications?

MR SHANE: No further applications Mr Chairman.  In the circumstances I would ask the Commission to excuse this applicant, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mabaso you're excused.  Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED