Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

MR MHLABA: Thank you, Chair.  May I now call on Mr Phillip Mosia?

PHILLIP MOSIA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mhlaba?

MR MHLABA: Thank you, Chair.
	Mr Mosia, can you confirm that you were born during December 1959, on the 1st?

MR MOSIA: That is correct.

MR MHLABA: And can you give the Committee your educational background, up to what standard did you attend school?

MR MOSIA: Up to standard two, Sir.

MR MHLABA: You were involved in a crime where two police officers were killed and at the time of the commission of this offence you were in the company of your co-applicants, being Jack Mofokeng, Solomon Sera and Isaac Mohomane, is that correct?

MR MOSIA: That is correct, Sir.

MR MHLABA: You are presently serving a prison term in respect of the various offences, is that correct?

MR MOSIA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MHLABA: You have applied for amnesty in respect of the very offences, can you explain to the Committee whether you are the one who completed this form or was it done on your behalf by somebody else?

MR MOSIA: Somebody helped me to fill out this form.

MR MHLABA: Can you tell us who helped you?

MR MOSIA: It was the ANC desk, Sir.

MR MHLABA: Where was this form completed, did they visit you in prison or did you attend to their offices?

MR MOSIA: They paid me a visit in prison.

MR MHLABA: Was that pursuant to a request from yourself or can you explain how it came?

MR MOSIA: They came to all comrades who were in maximum prison.

MR MHLABA: So in other words you're telling this Committee that you were known by the ANC desk to be a member of the organisation?

MR MOSIA: That is correct.

MR MHLABA: The reason on which you are applying for amnesty is that the offences in question were committed with a political objective and you've already indicated that you belonged to the African National Congress.  Can you tell the Committee of your involvement in the ANC?

MR MOSIA: I was a member of the ANC as from 1986.  I became a full member of the ANC in 1990.  I became involved with SDUs in 1991.

MR MHLABA: And while a member of the SDU, who was your immediate commander?

MR MOSIA: It was Isaac Mohomane, Sir.

MR MHLABA: Were you getting instructions from any other persons or were you getting instructions only from Isaac Mohomane?

MR MOSIA: I received instructions from Isaac Mohomane, and that I should keep the guns in my place.

MR MHLABA: So the guns were kept at your place, is that correct?

MR MOSIA: Yes, that is correct.

MR MHLABA: When did you come to know Isaac Mohomane, before joining the SDUs or only when you were recruited to the SDUs?

MR MOSIA: I knew him for a long time because he was attending school next to where I grew up.

MR MHLABA: Did you know or were you ever told of him being a suspect in a robbery case?

MR MOSIA: Do you mean did I know or I was informed?

MR MHLABA: Did you know, or yes, informed and gained knowledge of that.

MR MOSIA: He told me that he was arrested for a robbery case and then he was just a suspect, therefore he was acquitted for that case.

MR MHLABA: When did you come to know of that, when did he tell you, was it after this operation or was it before, that is the operation of the 5th of June '93?

MR MOSIA: That is before the operation because he was arrested and then he received bail, then he came to my house and informed about that particular case.  That he was arrested together with unknown people who were policemen, then I was surprised.

MR MHLABA: Did he tell you was the investigating officer in that matter?

MR MOSIA: No, he did not.

MR MHLABA: On this very operation, can you tell this Committee how it was planned and for how long were you involved in the planning of the very operation on the 5th of June '93?  Was it planned a night before the operation or some weeks, months, before the operation?

MR MOSIA: Which operation do you mean?

MR MHLABA: I'm talking about the incident on the 5th of June '93, where two police officers were shot dead.

MR MOSIA: He was talking about it on Thursday, then they met at my place, then he said all of us who were members of SDUs must meet on Friday, then they came on Friday.  Then he left this 15 shooter gun at my place and the 38.
	On Thursday they came together with other SDU members.  Solomon Sera was not present.  Mofokeng arrived and Sera arrived later.  He came with a car.  They went together with Isaac Mohomane to go and identify targets.  They left.  After some time they returned.  It was at dusk.  Then they informed us they were able to identify a police car but they don't know how many policemen were inside that van, so we should go there.  
	So he took this 15 shooter, he gave it to comrade Jack Mofokeng.  We went into the car.  We went to that place, shopping centre, we parked, then we saw that police van within other cars.  Then he instructed me to go inside so that I will be able to identify those policemen and how many there are.  
	I bought cigarettes, then I looked at those policemen, then I was able to identify them.  Then I bought the cigarettes, then able to identify the three policemen.  I went outside.  There were two male police and one female police.
	After informing them that after some time they informed me to go again inside the restaurant.  I went there for the second time.  Then I was able to see that they were finishing their meal, they were just about to go outside.
	Then I went outside, informed my comrades and said: "It looks like they are just about to leave".  He told Solomon Sera to leave and park the car so that we'd get the car ready.  After some time the police went outside the restaurant, then they looked as to whether who were going straight to the car.  
	I saw only two policemen going direct to the car, that is where they started shooting them.  I was at the back sitting down looking at them.  After they were shot at we went to the car where Sera was and then we went inside the car.  
	We dropped comrade Mohomane at his place and comrade Mofokeng at his place.  After a day, that is on Saturday, Solomon Sera brought the gun, that is a 9mm to my place, then he told me that there are police and soldiers who are going inside all the houses in the vicinity, who were searching.  Then he said I should remove the gun in my place.
	A certain friend of mine whose name is Tshabalala arrived then I requested him to hide that gun at his or her place.  I told him or her that I would come and pick up that gun, I don't know when.   
	We were arrested on the 9th and the police were looking for the gun.  That is where I led the police to Tshabalala.  That is where the gun was identified as SDU property because I was given that gun by Isaac Mohomane.

MR MHLABA: You have told the Committee of you going into the restaurant to identify the police officers, did you recognise or know any of the police officers inside the restaurant?

MR MOSIA: I did not know their identity, I only knew them as police.  I saw on their faces that they were police.

MR MHLABA: I want to take you back to the moment when you joined the SDUs.  Did you become a member of the ANC before you joined the SDUs or did you join the SDUs first and then became a member of the ANC?

MR MOSIA: I became the member of the ANC and thereafter I became a member of the SDU.  I was a member of the ANC before I became a member of the SDU.

MR MHLABA: Do you know whether the people who were being recruited to be SDU members needed to be of necessity members of the ANC?

MR MOSIA: That is correct.  The way comrade Mohomane explained it to us I had faith in him.

MR MHLABA: So were you satisfied that this very operation, the incident of the killing these police officers, had the blessings of the command structures of the ANC?

MR MOSIA: He told us before that he had already taken the decision with the leadership that on that particular, on Friday, we have to take out that operation of killing the policemen.