Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-15

CHAIRPERSON: Were you present at any meeting where the youth discussed (indistinct) 'If he refuses to go, what are we going to do to him?' or about that?

CHESTER RAGWALA: I remember that in one meeting at the chief's kraal when the late was told to leave because he was apposing the children at Mahvunga, the meeting did not resolve well because it was then that Petrus' house was burnt down.  As the deceased was really fighting against the people and they started singing towards the house.  And that led to the ending of the meeting, not in a peaceful way.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, you're excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR NDOU: That will be all the evidence for the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: Here are the three original affidavits.  They can rectified.  Yes, Mr Van Rensburg?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, at this stage I'd like to call to this stand Rosinnah Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mahvunga, what language would you prefer to use?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: ChiVenda.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any objection to the taking of the oath?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: (sworn states)

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Rosinnah, can you first start to explain to us what the relationship was between yourself and the deceased, Mr Edward Mahvunga?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: The deceased was my husband.  We were two.

MR VAN RENSBURG: His other wife, where did she live during February 1990?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: The other wife was staying at her original or maiden home at Vereeniging.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) sound disrespectful but it is important for us to know (indistinct) to us so that if necessary when we declare victims, we know who to declare as victims.  Were you formally married to the deceased?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Could you repeat the question?

CHAIRPERSON: Were you formally or by custom married to the deceased?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes, customarily so, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And this other lady, who you say was his other wife, was she still his wife while you were his wife or was she divorced from him or what is the position?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: They were separated or divorced by then.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were his only wife at the time of his death?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VAN RENSBURG: How many children did you have with the deceased?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Four.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Can you quickly give their names, please?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Peter Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) is Peter? Or when was he born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1980.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Mashudu Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: When was Mashudu born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1983.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) to ask, is this male or female?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Male.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) of course is male.  Mashudu was born in 1983.  Next one?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Tshianeo Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Male or female?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Male.

CHAIRPERSON: Born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1987.  Tshipifhiwa Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Male or female?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Female.

CHAIRPERSON: Born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1989.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Were there any children from the first wife, the other wife also staying with you at that stage, round about 1990?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes, there were.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Please give their names.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Thatheni Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct)?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Male.

CHAIRPERSON: Born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I can't remember.  I don't know exactly.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) perhaps?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Roughly 1962 or 1961.

CHAIRPERSON: (Indistinct) what was the age of the deceased when he died?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I can't tell exactly unless if I had brought a death certificate, well, I didn't bring that.

ADV DE JAGER: (Indistinct) a fairly senior, fairly elderly person?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Maybe middle aged, not so old.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Chairman, just for information, if I can quote from the charge sheet, it said that he was 52 years old, for what that is worth.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll regard it as his approximate age at his death.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you.  Yes, the other - second child of the first wife that was staying with you?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Aubrey Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, any idea when that child was born or what the age is?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1964.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Boshoff Mahvunga

MR VAN RENSBURG: Male and his age?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes, male.  Eric Mahvunga.

MR VAN RENSBURG: (Indistinct) that, just give us the age of Boshoff.  Approximately.

ADV DE JAGER: I think (indistinct) both of them sitting there so ask him what's his age.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you.

ADV DE JAGER: It's formal.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1970.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Born in 1970.  Yes the next one.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Eric Mahvunga.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Male, born in?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Mtanga.

MR VAN RENSBURG: When was Eric born?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1971.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Next.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Morinsi Mahvunga.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, female born which year?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I can't remember.  The boy may come back to explain.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Chairperson can we just quickly establish the age of - Morinsi is present today.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: 1973.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Born in 1973.  Okay you've mentioned five children that were living with you at this stage, around about 1990.  Any other children of the first wife that lived with you then?

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any children that weren't living with you?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well except these five, I used to live with these five.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any other children that didn't live with you that he had?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: So in total he had nine children?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Please carry on.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Okay can you describe for us where did you live at the time when the deceased was killed and the house that you lived in and what were you doing there to support yourself?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well we were staying at Mahvunga Village.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Describe the house.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well he was a hardworker.  He had a farm which could be six hectares.  It had a number of trees, advocado trees and mango trees and orange trees.  He also farmed in tomatoes which he will really export to Delport.  Avocados he will also export to Mr Fish.  We will also plant mealies and that we didn't use our own hands we were using trekkers which we also use different irrigation schemes, spray method.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mahvunga we all know why we are gathered here.  It's an application for amnesty in respect of the attack on your house that day as a result of which the house was burnt and your husband unfortunately killed.  Basically most of the versions indicate that there was a belief that your husband was involved in the practice of witchcraft, what do you say about that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know anything about that.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it possible that he was involved in it that you didn't know?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know anything about that.

CHAIRPERSON: It was also alleged that he wanted to assume the mantle of the headman in the area, in the appointed headman's absence, have you got any comments about that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I don't know anything.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it not true, or is it possible, or is it just you don't have knowledge of that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: It's not true.

CHAIRPERSON: It was also alleged that he interfered at times, especially after he discovered that he was on a list of people who were thought of to be involved in the practice of witchcraft, that he interfered with political meetings, especially that of the youth.  Do you know whether that occurred, or can't you say or what is the position?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: It's not true.