Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

DR BASSON: Chairperson, I'm not a legal person.

MR VALLY: Fine.   I will read you what part 3 of this Act says, under the heading
"UNDESIRABLE DEPENDENCE PRODUCING SUBSTANCES"
it says:-
"Methaqualone, including mandrax, isonox, Quaalude(?) or any other preparation containing methaqualone and known by any other trade name."
Clearly in terms of the legislation, mandrax is a trade name for methaqualone.   So let us not fool around with that issue.

DR BASSON: That's not true, Chairperson, he's basically raping basic scientific knowledge.  Methaqualone is one of the substances of mandrax.   Mandrax has got a different one, diphenhydromine(?), which is also part of mandrax, which is a more addictive substance.  So you'll find it in cough medicine and other medicine which has got anti-histamine, and it's actually treated by that.   So to make an allegation that methaqualone alone is addictive is absolute rubbish, there's no such thing, it's the combinations which cause the effect.   If mandrax was so addictive, would the user find it necessary to mix it with dagga?   Mandrax is not used on its own.   So you have a combination of three substances which work on the brain at one time.   Addiction is parallel to the amounts used, and not about one specific substance.   So I'd like Mr Vally to just stop raping basic science.

MR VALLY: I think Dr Basson fell into it with his cholera argument and I will repeat what I've said about methaqualone.    Methaqualone itself was no better than what we know as mandrax, and the point is that in terms of our legislation in this country, methaqualone in itself is as evily regarded as mandrax, it's contained in the same sentence.   However, I want to move on from this item... (intervention).

DR BASSON: I'd like to point out to Mr Vally that weapons and ammunition are also controlled in this country.

MR VALLY: I accept his explanation, we'll make our conclusion about it before, he's wasting time purposely.  I also want to talk about an affidavit by Mr Jacome, Annexure G3, which Dr Basson has been given.   This was an affidavit made by Dr Jacome, who was used by Dr Basson to transmit money to Croatia to buy methaqualone.   This affidavit was made at the South African Embassy in Bonn on the 21st of January 1987 I believe.   No, no, I beg your pardon, it looks like there was a mistake here, on the 13th day of August 1994, I beg your pardon.   He says
"During November 1992, Dr Basson arranged for an amount of 2,3 million US dollars to be transferred to my existing bank account in Zagreb."
He goes on:-
"A few days after the money was transferred to my bank account, I received a telephone call from Dr Basson and he instructed me to effect two payments in cash of 450 000 US dollars."
One can go on with a number of these documents, and we in fact put it to General Knobel that Dr Basson, just by using the telephone, was able to control millions of US dollars, and General Knobel conceded this.   I put it to you, by virtue of this affidavit, that you are being dishonest at this hearing when you say that you were not in control of such sums of money, in sole control, where the person on the other end receives a phone call from you to give it to someone else who gives certain codes, that you are being disingenuous with this Commission again when you say that you were not in control of such large sums of money?

DR BASSON: Chairperson, can I please answer this question?  I find this upsetting, because we're once again moving in the economic area and instead of we're sticking to human rights violations, but if Mr Vally wants the answer, I'll give it to him.   The basic process of financial control in the South African Defence Force and specifically Project Coast, worked as follows. Annually there was a budget meeting and during this budget meeting certain goals and objectives were approved and specific amounts of money was allocated to them.   After these amounts were allocated, the projects for the year were then further implemented.   When the money was needed for a specific goal, the CCC or the financial management work group got together and if the amount was above a certain level, I can't remember the level, then approval was once again given that this amount of money be spent.   Now if this amount had to be spent, General Knobel wrote an authorisation where he authorises the spending of the amount of money.   If the spending of that money was authorised, then I could have taken that authorisation to the financial official of the project, and then he could get the funds to flow.   I had no signing authorisation, there was no way for me to control it.   If there were transfers to abroad, then we received authorisation from the South African Reserve Bank.   The CCC went to the South African Reserve Bank and to explain to the officials why the money was needed, in broad terms of course with regards to the secrecy, and to make sure that it's an official state transfer through the proper channels.   After this was done, the financial official then went back and the funds were then spent.
 Once again I'd like to say I did not have control over millions of dollars, I couldn't pick up the phone and do transfers or arrange transfers, I couldn't just phone people and give them codes, there was quite an integrated approval process.   I concede that at certain times when certain operational decisions were made quickly, I did have some discretion, but those discretions was not unapproved, and if I made my own discretion, it was approved de facto.   
 So to make an allegation that these millions was involved in any sense, firstly, in an uncontrolled process, and secondly in the violation of human rights or the buying of drugs to enslave South African people, the South African people did not need our assistance, I think they're more than willing to take their own risks and to obtain their own medicine in their own fashion, and I want to add, as far as Mr Jacome's affidavit is concerned, I have no control over that, I was not there, I was not present when it was taken, I did not influence him, I did not take his statement down in any way, I do not know why Jacome said what he said.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, (indistinct) half past seven, which is the time that I indicated that I will not like to sit further than.    I do not know whether, as an act of grace, you do not have a few questions which you can put in ten minutes.

MR VALLY: Thank you, Mr Chair.   Dr Jan Lourens advised us that you instructed him to make certain applicators which were screwdrivers which had a capacity to inject or stab toxins into people, walking sticks which did something similar, or could shoot pellets of poison into people, what's your response to this allegation?

DR BASSON: My response to that allegation is the same as to TRC52, every security service has that equipment to be used and it is being used... (intervention).

MR VALLY: Dr Basson, sorry, we don't have much time, do you confirm that you did give him such instructions?