Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-06-18

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I am not sure because when a person arrives in the meeting I think it was the first instance that happened in front of me at the meeting for example like a podium a person would be asked questions, there would be people asking questions to that particular person so I didn't notice because there were a lot of us, I didn't notice from whom the key came from because after that I was asked to go and look for General  Nqoya, I was one of those people who went looking for him as we were waiting for him so I went out looking for General Nqoya.

MR OBOSE: When you went looking for General Nqoya, was it now in the evening, early evening or towards midnight?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: No, it was during working hours because we found him in his office together with other officers that were working with him.

MR OBOSE: Oh you found him in his office?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes we went there, when we arrived there there was a counter where, like a reception, there were bodyguards there who were armed, his son and one gentleman by the name of Moagetsi and Impungluwango, when we got there they were there.

MR OBOSE: How were they armed?  Side arms or automatic firearms?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Two of them had Uzis and one had a side arm but two of them had Uzis.

MR OBOSE: Was this normal that his bodyguards would be armed with sub-machine guns?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: It was not normal to us because at the time there were a lot of things that were not normal that were happening like the police being guarded, a commissioner being guarded.  We only knew that it was only the ministers who were supposed to have bodyguards.

MR OBOSE: So you found these bodyguards, two were armed with sub-machine guns.  What happened?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: They refused access for us to go to General Nqoya but we told them that we from the college and at the college the general left the police saying he was going to come back so we wanted to speak to him concerning that matter because he had left the police behind saying that he was coming back.  I think that they were not aware of that so they decided not to restrict us so they gave us permission to go in.  We went to the office and then we found the general at the office.

MR OBOSE: With whom was he in his office or at least was he in his office or another officer's office?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: As the offices would be changed, if the commissioner was working I was not sure whether that was his office but I thought that was like a conference room and he was together with other officers in that room but I can't remember the name of those officers.

MR OBOSE: Okay, did anyone speak to him?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I was the one who was supposed to speak to him but when we arrived he was speaking on the telephone, he then lifted his hand showing that he was still busy.  He continued speaking on the telephone.  Because we were near him I could hear him saying that their officers were taken hostage by the police, they were at the police college.  The junior ranks and the warrant officers, he said that there are others in front of me here, he then said that I will call you again, he dropped the phone.  I think that maybe he was talking to Brigadier Gqozo.

MR OBOSE: Yes, did you take him to the meeting?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I spoke to him telling him that "General, we are waiting for you at the meeting at the college so we are here to take you", I told him that he should go to the meeting.

MR OBOSE: Did he agree to this?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: He didn't make this difficult, he pretended as if he was agreeing with us.  He said that he had things that disturbed him in the office, he wanted to go back to the meeting so he said he was going to go to the meeting but he still has to do some things, he would go there by himself so we must trust him that he would be there.  We then left him, we went and gave out a report back to the college.

MR OBOSE: Was this accepted, your report back to the college?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: It was rejected very badly, our report back was rejected because we were told that we were sent to come to bring Nqoya with us so we were told to guard the camp after that and then another group was sent to take him.

MR OBOSE: Oh, so your unit was seen as not having carried out the task and you were demoted to do guard duties now?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes, it seemed as if we had failed, we were also disappointed because we'd failed, that person had lied to us so we left him there at his office, so it was very hard to be a failure amongst other people.

MR OBOSE: Thank you Mr Chairman, nothing further.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR OBOSE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nompozolo, any questions?

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you, just a few Mr Chairman.
	Now you are saying that you went, you were sent to fetch General Nqoya.  At that stage were the freedom songs being sung?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes they were sung.  They were singing and the Gqozo name was mentioned it was said "down with Gqozo and ADM".

MR NOMPOZOLO: And every time when an officer comes it would be said "down with that officer" for instance it's Dolo, it's going to be said "down with Dolo" and then back to Gqozo, "down with Gqozo" not so?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I can't well whether we did say down with an officer but there was that general attitude towards the officers, we were not seeing eye to eye.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Because of the working relations?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: According to my perception as I've already said that I was a member of Popcru because of the working conditions, I assumed that they were part of the ruling.

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NOMPOZOLO

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you Mr Nompozolo.  Yes Ms Collett, have you got any questions?

MS COLLETT: No questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.
	Mr Sibuqashe, do you know S S Gola who is an applicant in these proceedings?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes I know him.

MR MAPOMA: Did you see him on that day in question, that is the 22nd and 23rd March 1994 during that incident?  Did you see him?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: No I didn't see him, I don't remember seeing him.

MR MAPOMA: Do you know Zalake Kolele?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Yes I know him, Sir.

MR MAPOMA: Was he there?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I once saw him in the hall.

MR MAPOMA: Was he amongst those who were chanting slogans and singing freedom songs?

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: I didn't specifically look at him but what I'm trying to say is that I saw him that day as others.  I saw Mr Nkwenkwe and Mfene and others.

MR MAPOMA: Okay, thanks a lot.  Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mapoma.  Any questions from the panel?

DR TSOTSI: Nothing thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes from you as well?  Alright.
Yes, Mr Sibuqashe you are excused.

VIYANI SITO SIBUQASHE: Thank you Sir.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR OBOSE: That will be all the applicants Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are those your witnesses?

MR OBOSE: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Collett, is your witness here?

MS COLLETT: Mr Chairman, my witness is here.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  You still got one left Mr Nompozolo?

MR NOMPOZOLO: Thank you Mr Chairman, I still have a witness but I want to reconsider my position.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.  Ms Collett are you able to call your witness?

MS COLLETT: Yes I am.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you do that please?  What is the name?

MS COLLETT: It's Mr Luwana, Inspector Luwana.

CHAIRPERSON: Luwana?

MS COLLETT: Luwana.

NOPOMO VICTOR LUWANA: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MS COLLETT
	Is it correct that you are a policeman attached to the South African Police Services?

MS COLLETT: What rank do you hold?

NOPOMO VICTOR LUWANA: I'm an inspector.

MS COLLETT: Is it correct that on the 22nd March 1994 you were a bodyguard to Commissioner Nqoya?

NOPOMO VICTOR LUWANA: That is correct.