Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-06

MR LYSTER: Now I just stress that the second part is a further use of these particular groups.  The primary purpose is to act offensively against the ANC, UDF and related groups.  Under the heading, "The location and arming of the offensive element and the clear separation of support to Inkatha and to KwaZulu", a document was produced during April 1986 and according to this document, Buthelezi purportedly emphasised that the support to Inkatha including the paramilitary support, must not be mixed up with the support supplied to KwaZulu governmental structures.  So although we are all aware that Inkatha controlled the KwaZulu Government, for the particular purposes of this project, there was a strict separation between support to the political party, Inkatha, and the support to the homeland government of KwaZulu.  He further reportedly emphasised that the offensive element must not be a separate unit, but it must form part of the larger paramilitary unit.  It is also evident from this document that the offensive group was to be armed and it was proposed to set aside a substantial amount of money, in the sum of R200 000 for weapons and ammunition.  The money for this and other endeavours will be secretly channelled through Armscor.  Moving to the next sub-paragraph entitled "Training".

MR MACADAM: Sorry, Mr Chairperson, is it necessary that we have evidence on the training through Mr Varney at this
 /point?
3B point?  We have heard considerable evidence from three trainees as well as an expert in counter revolutionary warfare.  If we are driven by time restraints, is it necessary that this aspect be actually heard again?

MR LYSTER: I think if you just deal with - for the record, just deal with that in a couple of sentences.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER: Because as Mr Macadam says, we've had extensive evidence of recruitment, training and - etcetera.

WITNESS:   Fair enough.  I shall only refer to the evidence of one Captain Jacobs who, during his training, referred to an attacking capacity in respect of the training of offensive actions.  And further, according to Jacobs and I think this is very important, those trained - it was - the purpose of the training was to enable the resistance movements to operate independently of the SADF.  I think that is important to remember and indeed the main documents, as we will now see, refer to a capacity of self-sufficiency and therein, Chairperson, lies the connection between the training and the subsequent activities of this group during the 1980s and years later as well, in the 1990s.  No documents were supplied for the months of June to December 1986, except for one document in October.  Now the months June to December 1986 coincided with the training in Caprivi and I think it's no coincidence that no documents were supplied for those particular months, which is, Chairperson, I have included a reference to the Katzen documents, because Katzen was carried out by the same people, the same department, DST.  It had the same modus operandi.  It was there to carry out certain violent actions and I believe it will be

MR LYSTER: /... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: 3B ... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: MR   (?): Mr Chairperson, I thought there's a ruling in this regard.

MR LYSTER: Ja.  I've said that Mr Varney could refer to it as another special operation of the Director of Special Tasks.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER: And I would ask you not to go into any detail as to  the specifics of Operation Katzen.

YASMINE SOOKA: (?)    Sorry, Chair, with respect, if Mr Varney is simply drawing parallel conclusions, as long as names are not being mentioned, I cannot see that it should be a problem.

MR LYSTER: Ja, I think just try and deal with it as - in as circumscribed a way as possible.

WITNESS:   Yes, Chairperson, I mean ... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: MR   (?): Sorry, could you just repeat that?  I never heard what was said.

MR LYSTER: I asked Mr Varney to deal with any reference to Operation Marion(?) in as circumscribed a manner as possible - sorry, Katzen.

WITNESS:   Katzen.

MR LYSTER: In as circumscribed a manner as possible.

WITNESS:  Chairperson, I will endeavour to be as concise and as short as I can and I won't run through all the points in my submission, but I do believe that that similar fact evidence can be extremely useful in painting the overall picture, particularly since the same parties were involved, but to proceed ... (intervention)

MR LYSTER: MR   (?): May I place on record, there is a ruling in this regard;  there is limited time available, specifically because of circumstances beyond, definitely, the defence's control.  We have not received people

MR LYSTER: /involved

MR LYSTER: 3B involved in Katzen and have not received notice.  We do not have the documentation relating to Katzen.  A ruling has been made relating to Katzen.  The most important thing about this inquiry is Marion and I object severely that any reference is made to Katzen.  There is limited time available, let's stick to Marion and the issues there.

MR LYSTER: Mr Varney, please continue with ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Thank you.

MR LYSTER: ... with - insofar as this relates to Operation Marion.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Katzen, like Marion, also involved the elimination of targets and there are references in the Katzen documents to "elimineer", being taken out and so on and so forth.  As I have mentioned, key players in Marion also featured in Katzen.  Other important parallels are the security risks which I have referred to briefly and will return to in Marion and again, the same crops up in Katzen under 11.4 there.  The weapons again, often the same parties are involved and in this instance the same individual involved.  If one looks at the groups trained, it is evident from a Katzen document produced during November 1986 that they also envisaged similar type groups to be trained for the Katzen purpose as Marion and here they refer to intelligence gathering and recruitment.  It's referred to in different circumstances.  Here they're talking about the group that goes in to carry out the offensive actions or eliminations, not be used from - not to be used for other purposes such as intelligence gathering and recruitment in case they're arrested.  Anyway, I move on from that parallel.  I'm not going to deal with point 12.  It relates to - suffice to say that

MR LYSTER: /it