Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson, at that stage, or history taught us that not even the Boere Kommandos could stand together.  We thought that history would never repeat itself but it was then proved that it will repeat because whites cannot stand together.
	It was proved again, these people never had the support of any right-wing group, right-wing leaders only did this later on in order to create a perfect platform for themselves.

CHAIRPERSON: Let us continue then.  How would Mandela have known or FW de Klerk have known that they had to do something about the Volkstaat of no-one told him that these bombs were detonated for this reason?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Mandela told him that he must establish such a council.

CHAIRPERSON: But the government who had to announce this Volkstaat for the right-wing, who would have told the government that: "We are detonating these bombs because we are looking for a Volkstaat"?

MR PRINSLOO: Well it had to be our right-wing leaders who had to do this, it was their responsibility.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you not say why it was never done?

MR PRINSLOO: They were scared that they would then  ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: But Mr Prinsloo, then it doesn't make sense to me.  The end of this plan was to create this fear and to plant these bombs and to take the lives of people, the goal had to be that someone must tell the government that this is the reason otherwise it is useless in taking people's lives.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now who according to the plan had to go and tell the government that this is the reason and: "Give us a Volkstaat, otherwise something else would happen"?

MR PRINSLOO: That would be Mr Terreblanche.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that according to plan?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes and Dr Ferdie Hartzenberg had to make the announcements nationally and internationally according to secession.

CHAIRPERSON: Therefore I assume that both leaders whom you've just mentioned knew what was going on, is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, with General Constand Viljoen.

CHAIRPERSON: Pardon?

MR PRINSLOO: Together with General Constand Viljoen.

CHAIRPERSON: And Constand Viljoen knew on the day of the elections, who it was and what was going on?

MR PRINSLOO: He knew who it was, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did the generals in staff not go to Mr Terreblanch and tell him: "Make your public announcement that we did it and this is our reason"?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson, according to my perception and my co-commanders, they were too scared to do it.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm now talking of the generals in staff.

MR PRINSLOO: Then they would ...[end of tape]

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] or did the planning. You knew that this was a risk.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes. That is what we could not understand, why he did not do it.

CHAIRPERSON: And you knew that you were going to plant and that lives may be lost and that there will be a lot of noise.  "Because we are looking for a Volkstaat and at the end of the day the leader certainly had to, whoever it was, make a public statement and say; This is the reason and give us a Volkstaat."  And that is the most important, the goal of the whole operation was the most important aspect. Is that not true?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Now can you then tell us why the most important point of this whole operation, people sold their houses, left their jobs for this Volkstaat and the most important item of the whole agenda was not executed. Why not? All those things that the people did taking their families with them, selling their stuff, took the lives of other people it was all useless. How so?

MR PRINSLOO: That is how we saw it as well.

CHAIRPERSON: I ask again. The Generals in staff according to the evidence that we have heard were a very powerful body.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't they go to Terreblanch and say: "Look now the goal of this plan go and execute it" Or why wasn't it executed?

MR PRINSLOO: I believe that requests were directed at him.

CHAIRPERSON: But Mr Prinsloo you were the secretary, you have to know.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson I was then in Protea prison in Soweto. At that stage we did not have any contact with the outside world.

CHAIRPERSON: You were arrested on the day after the elections. That was the 28th.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes that is correct. On the day.

CHAIRPERSON: On the day. The first bomb in Bree Street was on the 25th or the 24th.

MR PRINSLOO: The Sunday.

CHAIRPERSON: Why on that day didn't you go to Terreblanch or the on the 26th and say: "Go and tell the people that is part of our plan. They must know why we are detonating these bombs. Why people lost their lives. Go and talk to them."

MR PRINSLOO: They had to do that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I know that they had to do this and that they didn't do it. Why?

MR PRINSLOO: Well it is my view that they were afraid prosecutions.

CHAIRPERSON: But they were aware before the first bomb that this was a possibility and part of the plan was that a public statement was supposed to be made. That was before the first bomb.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And lives were taken, buildings were blown up. So isn't there any reason that we can determine as to why this wasn't done?

MR PRINSLOO: Well I can't say why Mr Terreblanche didn't do it. He was supposed to have done it.

CHAIRPERSON: Look I can understand that you can't say but could you perhaps tell us why the Generals in staff didn't go and tell him: "Look go and talk to the people"?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, sorry, I don't want to interpose. Mr Chairman, Exhibit F was handed in to the Committee and that certainly possibly the Chairman would like to just to refresh your memory.

CHAIRPERSON: No I am aware of that. I want to find out what the inner workings of this Generale staf was and what their reasons were for not asking at least why it hadn't been done.

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson it could be possible that members of the staff approached Mr Terreblanche and directed such a request at him. I think that it is highly possible. I don't know about it.

CHAIRPERSON: But how could you not know? You were his secretary. You were very close to him. Why didn't you yourself ask him: "Mr Terreblanche why don't you speak out so that the whole world can hear if bombs are going off and claiming the lives of people, blowing up cars and buildings?"

MR PRINSLOO: I can understand what you are saying but at that stage I was no longer involved with the secretariat or administration component. It was a very difficult time.

CHAIRPERSON: Well let's just forget about the position of secretary. You were next to Terreblanche. In other words you could have gone to him. Isn't that true? It was during your career and the construction of the entire operation that you were the secretary.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So you could have gone to him at least on a friendly basis and said to him. So that last point is the most important point and it is your duty to carry out your tasks. Why didn't you do that?

MR PRINSLOO: He was supposed to have done it out of his own.

CHAIRPERSON: But he didn't and why didn't you go and ask him: "Why not? " Or "When are you going to do it?" Or "Are you going to do it?"

MR PRINSLOO: We assumed that he would. We have always believed that.

CHAIRPERSON: After the first bomb he didn't do it. After the second, after the pipe bombs he didn't do it.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: After a trailer bomb in Germiston he didn't do it.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Well at that stage a lot of bombs had gone off, peoples' lives had been lost, buildings had been affected, why not then? Most of the operations had been completed.

MR PRINSLOO: In my opinion Mr Terreblanche wanted to prove that the right-wingers and specifically the AWB could achieve precisely the same as for example the ANC soldiers of that stage.