Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-02

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I cannot respond to that, I don't know why it didn't happen.  I think that the askaris would simply have withdrawn after the arrest, because we expected to arrest terrorists, a terrorist or more than one terrorist, and they would then have completed their operation and withdrawn and continued with other operations.

MR LAX: The point is though, even if you were arresting terrorists, you would still protect your askaris, you would still protect your informers, not so?  You wouldn't want their identities to be known?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR LAX: You wouldn't want the fact that they were askaris to leak out?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No, we wouldn't have wanted to expose this.

MR LAX: Precisely.  Your MO would have been in those circumstances,  your modus operandi to arrest the whole lot of them and give the impression that they were all being arrested together?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that is possible.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you recall the date upon which this happened, Mr van der Westhuizen?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No, I cannot specifically recall the date.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you recall what day of the week it was?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I think it was a Sunday.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you agree that it was April/May?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions arising?

MR VISSER: One, thank you Mr Chairman, arising from Commissioner Lax' questions about the lawfulness or otherwise of the arrest.  Mr van der Westhuizen, I have already warned you quite a while ago that I would do this, Mr van der Westhuizen, do you know what Judge's Rules are?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR VISSER: Did you warn Ms Khubeka according to Judge's Rules before you arrested her?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No.

MR VISSER: Did you tell her why she was being arrested, what you suspected her of?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: She was later informed, when we arrived at Winkelspruit.

MR VISSER: When you arrested her, did you tell her what offences she was suspected of?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No.

MR VISSER: Therefore was this a lawful arrest?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No, it wouldn't have been.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel?

MR NEL: Mr Chairman, yes, if I may, I have just got one question for Mr van der Westhuizen, arising out of the re-examination of Mr Visser, if I may.  Mr van der Westhuizen, there was no information which came from Ms Khubeka upon an answer of yours to Mr Visser, which led to an arrest of four example, these four persons, to which Mr Botha has referred.  Now I assume that their names were also not disclosed during that time?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Not that I can recall.

MR NEL: So therefore there wasn't really anything that Taylor heard which would have led him to a further arrest of four terrorists?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: The reason why Mr Baker came to the room upon occasion, was to receive further instructions, specifically perhaps for arrests or other penetrations, and he did not receive any such instructions to arrest persons.

MR NEL: So even though she indicated that she would cooperate, she didn't really cooperate because she didn't provide suitable information?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I don't know whether the names would have been disclosed at a later stage, or whether any names were disclosed, but at that stage, there was no information for other persons to be arrested.

MR NEL: Well, I know it is your opinion, but don't you think that it is possible that that could be the reason why Taylor hit her?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is possible.  Yes, it is possible.  She did provide information, she did cooperate, but it is possible that he struck her in order to obtain more information.

MR NEL: You worked with Taylor for a long time and that is why you say that he isn't a sadist?

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR NEL: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van der Merwe, any questions arising?

MR VAN DER MERWE: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER MERWE

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Botha?  Mr Samuel?

MR SAMUEL: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SAMUEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: No questions Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe?

MS THABETHE: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr van der Westhuizen, that concludes your evidence, you may stand down now.

MR VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Thank you sir.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: I think this would perhaps be a convenient time to adjourn.  I see it is just before four o'clock.  Would half past nine tomorrow morning be convenient?

MR VISSER: Yes Mr Chairman, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, we will now adjourn for the day and we will start again tomorrow morning in the same hall, at half past nine.  We will adjourn until tomorrow at half past nine, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS