Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-27

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I had explained already that I was trying to restore that which had been taken away from me, so that this child's mother should cry the same way as my mother did, such as a calf would, such as a cow wood, trying to locate its calf, a calf to come and suckle or suckle.

MR STRYDOM: Do you know Mr Nosenga?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I don't want to commit myself, I don't know him, I only heard about him.

MR STRYDOM: After the attack and during July of 1992, did you go to Ulundi to the rally, or the annual rally that was held there?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Unfortunately, I had been arrested.   Having been arrested on 30th of June, I was at lay-off.

MR STRYDOM: Just to get it straight, when were you arrested and in connection with what were you arrested?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I was arrested for the Boipatong incident, nothing else.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but we all know now the attack took place on the 17th of June 1992, can you give an indication how soon thereafter were you arrested?

MR LAX: Mr Strydom, he said he was arrested on the 30th of June.

MR STRYDOM: 30th? I heard 13th, that's why I ... ...(intervention).

MR LAX: Okay.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, sorry.   No, no, I won't take it further, I just heard wrongly then.   During the course of the attack, did you see any military or police vehicles in Boipatong?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I don't want to commit myself, I did not see any police vehicle, I explained so earlier.   I indicated that on entering and on moving out, or getting out of Boipatong, I didn't see any such a vehicle, I was in a hurry, I wanted to go back to the hostel, and I was also frightened.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM
NO QUESTIONS BY MS PRETORIUS

MS TANZER: At the time of the Boipatong attack on the 17th of June, was your brother, Themba Khubeka, staying at the hostel?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: That is correct.

MS TANZER: Did your brother participate in the attack of Boipatong on that night?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I saw him last when we were at the arena.

MS TANZER: Did you speak to your brother after the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not speak to him.

MS TANZER: You've been sitting in these proceedings and you've heard Mr Nosenga's versions of the events that led up to the attack on Boipatong and the attack itself.    According to Mr Nosenga, your brother was one of those in fact in a Casspir on the night of the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I could have seen him.   Had these vehicles been at the arena, I could have seen him, but I do not remember seeing him getting into a Casspir.   He is a criminal, he cannot be associated with the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your brother?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that's my brother.

MS TANZER: Well, I put it to you that insofar as your version differs from that of Mr Nosenga, that you are not being open and honest with this committee and that Mr Nosenga's version is the correct version of what took place that night.   What are your comments?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am saying I do not agree with what you are saying.   You are telling me about Nosenga, I don't know Nosenga, he doesn't know what he is talking about, he shouldn't commit himself to something he doesn't know, he is telling a blue lie.   You will hear for yourself when he comes forward to testify, then you should ask him those questions.

MS TANZER: It is correct, however, that the last time you saw your brother was at the stadium and that you did not speak to him after the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: (No audible reply).

MS TANZER: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

MR BERGER: Mr Khubeka, did you see your brother after the attack?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I did.

MR BERGER: Where?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I saw him in the house with his Z88, 9mm pistol.

MR BERGER: In the house where?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I'm talking about his room, the number of which used to be 101.

MR BERGER: His room at the hostel?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, his room at the hostel.

MR BERGER: And when did your brother die?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I think he died in 1993.   I cannot recall the date.   I don't want to tell a lie.   It could have been easier had I brought along the death certificate.

MR BERGER: And you never discussed the attack with your brother at any stage until his death?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Had I discussed such matters with him, he would have beaten me up, because he is stubborn, he would say I was still young, what is it that I wanted at Boipatong.

MR BERGER: You were implicated in the criminal trial by Mr Bojosi and Mr Moloi, do you remember that?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I remember.

MR BERGER: Their evidence against you, was that the truth?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is the truth.

MR BERGER: According to Mr Bojosi, after the attack you bragged about stabbing a person, is that correct?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I did brag that I stabbed a person, but I did not explain how old the person was.   Mr Moloi did say that as well, and I showed him that I used my spear, I showed it to him.   He did say that in court.

MR BERGER: So you were very proud the day after the attack, that you had killed a little baby girl, am I right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct, because I achieved my goal.

MR BERGER: When you gave evidence before lunch, did you refer to Mr Richard Dlamini as an impimpi?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, he is an impimpi because he involved me, or he implicated me.   I still maintain that he is an impimpi, because he saw me, had he not pointed that out, I would not have said that he is an impimpi.   He is an impimpi because he is exposing me, I was trying to hide myself.   I still maintain he is an impimpi.   I am not happy about that, because I was trying to hide myself.

MR BERGER: Mr Richard Dlamini shouldn't have been a traitor, he should do what all good comrades do, that is keep his mouth shut, is that right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I still maintain he should have shut his mouth.  What I am saying is correct, it is the truth.   You would not have found out about my having killed a person had he not pointed it out, I would not have revealed anything, because if I keep a secret, I do so fully.

MR BERGER: And you're not an impimpi, are you?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am not an impimpi, because I did what I wanted to do and I kept my secret.   I am an impimpi now that I have said something about Quonquo.

MR BERGER: No, Quonquo is dead, I'm talking about people who are alive, you are not an impimpi, you would not tell the secrets of your co-applicants who are still alive, am I right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am saying I am an impimpi because the registers of God have all these bad things, even after a person has died.   I still maintain that he killed a person, the person who died there, I am quite sure it was Quonquo who killed him, he killed a person, he should be prosecuted in heaven as well.

MR BERGER: I am talking about the people who are living.   Is it correct, Mr Khubeka, that you are not the type of person to tell the secrets of the living?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I am the kind of a person who can tell all, tell it all, if you want an explanation as to who did what, I can explain that.   I don't have secrets.

MR BERGER: Well, will you tell this committee please about the participation of the police in the attack on Boipatong?