Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

WITNESS:   The Mpanzas are in Road 13 and we are in Road 12.  There were vulgar words that were uttered, and also threats.  And I asked her, "Why should we intervene as parents, because these are children.?  Why should we get into the whole thing?"  Well, I took an initiative, I went to the place, and I found out that these people who are here are so rude, and I asked, "Is your father here, and your mum here?"  They said, "Yes."  During that time Mrs Khanyile came, who was the teacher at Chesterville High School.  I think she is the one who instigated this whole thing.  Children used to ask, "How can we be taught by this?"

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you talking about Mrs Khanyile here, or who?

WITNESS:   Yes.  The husband was a teacher, Impiwane.  Impiwane was the husband.  The wife was already there, but Impiwane was already late then.  He had died.  Unfortunately he died at Mzisi's funeral, Lamontville.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was he sick or something?

WITNESS:   No, he was killed by children. You're talking about Impiwane.  What is his other name?  Oh, it's okay, it's fine.  Let's go on.   ---   Mrs Impiwane said, "There is nothing you can talk to Thandi, Mrs Mpanza, because the situation is in this condition because of her.  You see, Mrs Memela is the one who is provoking the situation in the location."  We had altercations.  We were quarrelling and in a heavy argument, and finally the others said, "Just get out, you bitch, or else I will stab you."  I said, "Don't call me bitch, and you won't stab me."  The said, "We will see where you will stay."  I said, "I will be here in Chesterville," and I am still in Chesterville.

KHOZA MGOJO: What about Thabani?

WITNESS:   Thabani was not at home then.  I left.  I went to work on Monday.  As I was at work the telephone rang, and I heard that Dan Mthembu and Darky Mbongwa and other members of A-Team were there attacking Thabani, and they had stabbed him.

KHOZA MGOJO: What year was that?   1983?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Darky was the one who stabbed Thabani.  He was given the knife by Dan Mthembu, the okapi.  I said, "Where is he now?"  They said he was taken already.  The ambulance could not enter the location because the children were all over blocking the traffic.  I said to the kids, "Tell Thabani to go, to find a way out and go to the hospital, and when he gets to the hospital please he should call me."  I had reported this to my employer, Dr Malahlela, and he asked, "What will you do?"  I said, "No, the community people are there.  They will see a way out, but I will continue this day."  When I got back home the police were all over, already waiting for me.  Myeza was ready for me right on the entrance, and so sure that they were arresting me.  I said to them, "I will ask for the warrant of arrest."  They said, "Don't tell us about our work."  I said, "That's what I want."  I went inside the house and closed the door.  They left.  After some time the situation got worse, and Thabani said, "Mum, I am going."

KHOZA MGOJO: Was Thabani better now, or what?  Where did he go?

WITNESS:   No, Thabani left the country.  He went through Maputo, and others followed.  After that Phumuza Dlamisa came to tell me that, "Mrs Thandi, please be alert because they are conspiring."  I said, "Oh well, it's fine.  If I die, I die.  They will see what to do."  At that time that's when many kids, children were being killed.  I think what made the situation to get worse it's because I was so much in touch and close the community of Chesterville.  A child who was 14 years old, one of those who were killed, seven of them, and one of those who were killed had no parents to bury him or her.  The father was injured and died from being assaulted by the police, and we had to put our heads together and see how we would bury this child who was an orphan.  And the community agreed and said I should stand as a mother and represent her mother.  I went to her place, and it was badly situated because it was at the corner of Road Eight and Road 11, and those places were ruled by A-Team, and they were predominantly A-Team.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it true that you would be taken by the police to C R Swart?  Was that routine?  Did that become some routine or something?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: And Allan Taylor was deeply involved?

WITNESS:   Yes, Allan Taylor was.

KHOZA MGOJO: Tell us about 1981 when you were taken from the surgery.

WITNESS:   It was 1985.  I was busy on duty.  I was on duty attending to one of the patients after giving her treatment.  Suddenly I saw the curtain opening, and when I tried to see and look what was happening I saw this guy facing at me, and this guy was a white man, a boer, who said he was coming from Carolina.  I said to them, "Please get out because I am still busy with a patient in here."  They said, "No, we have already spoken to the doctor."  They said, "We are not going out."  I went to the doctor, I told the doctor that, "The police are here, telling me that they are here to fetch me," and the doctor said, "You know the whole surgery is surrounded by the police.  Better you should go with them."  I left the surgery, and the patients were there wondering as to what was happening.  When I got out I saw seven cars, Cressidas, and 11 vans.  Some were coming from Dabeka.  I was taken and I was told I should go into Allan Taylor's car, which was the third one.  At the back there were two boers, who were pointing their guns direct to me.  In the car I had already seen Ntombela, and in another one there was Myeza.  We went back to C R Swart.  I was taken by Taylor, and he took me into a small room, and the walls were in blood, red.  That's where he told me that, "This is the end of the world for you today."  I am quoting him now.  That's what he said.  "This is where I killed Ndluli, and I am going to kill you as well."  I said ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO:  Who is Ndluli?  From Lamontville?

WITNESS:   Yes, Ndluli from Lamontville.  And they left and they were playing their tapes, and those tapes were playing songs of - freedom songs.  They asked me, "Do you know those songs?"  I said, "Yes."  They asked, "Who are the "singers?"  I said, "ANC."  They asked me, "Who are you?"  I said, "Anything you want me to me I am that."  I remember suffering from flu that day, and when he was giving me some treatment I said, "No.  Maybe you will give me some poison.  I don't want any treatment, any pills from you."  They took me out to the office and they said I must give a statement.  During the time when he was asking me to give him this statement I picked up the telephone, I called the attorney to tell them.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who was your attorney?

WITNESS:   Daya Pillay.  It didn't take long, I heard he was already there, and he was released.  But it did not end.

KHOZA MGOJO: What did they want from you?

WITNESS:   They said I should give the statement and say I am importing the weapons, and these are the weapons which are killing the people, and I am harassing the community.  And I said, "I don't harass any community, but if anything should happen I will try by all means to protect myself."

KHOZA MGOJO: And after that you left the whole thing.  You said, "The things are bad," and you left Chesterville?

WITNESS:   No, I did not leave Chesterville.  I did not have work after that, and shortly after that my house was burned.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know who burnt your house?

WITNESS:   I know very well.  It was the A-Team, Dan Mthembu and the Ntombeni family, and the Mpanza family, and the boy from Xebexulu, Xebexulu's boy, and many others, and the Isaacs.  I won't forget those, Mouser and Bupini.

KHOZA MGOJO: When they were burning the house where were you?