Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-01-29

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, it is now ten past ten. Where is Mr Memani?

MR RAPHADANA: Mr Chairman, we realised that we forgot the argument in the hotel room, so he has just gone to pick up that.

CHAIRPERSON: He what?

MR RAPHADANA: He forgot the argument in the hotel room. He just realised once we were here.

CHAIRPERSON: He knew he was to argue here at 10 o' clock this morning, you're now telling us he forgot the argument in the hotel room. What sort of conduct is that by a so-called 'legal practitioner'?

MR RAPHADANA: Well, Mr Chairman, unfortunately it happened like that. We do apologise for that, but I don't think he will be longer than 10 minutes.

CHAIRPERSON: So we all have to sit and wait for Mr Memani?

MR RAPHADANA: Well, that is the unfortunate part of the ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Why did he not come and see us and explain and ask leave to go?

MR RAPHADANA: Well, Mr Chairman, he requested me to come and explain to you and then I contacted Robin. Robin said there was no need, he will explain to you.

CHAIRPERSON: What do we do?

MR BRINK: Mr Chairman, before I had an opportunity of talking to you, you were brought into the hall.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you ready to start, Mr Stander?

MR STANDER: I am ready to start, Mr Chairman. I can start.
	Mr Chairman, in my argument I am going to refer you to the various victims and I am going to refer to each of them. I am not going to refer in detail, but shortly then, with your permission, I am going to expand on the legal position and show the improbabilities regarding the police evidence.
	Mr Chairman, I am going to start with Oupa Makubalo's evidence. You will remember that he was involved in two incidents. 
	The first one - and he also put it like that, in chronological order - was the incident when he was arrested in the street and shots were fired at him. According to him it was chronological that the first incident was according to this applicant. 
	Shortly, he told the Commission that that day he was standing there, he said was only wearing his trousers, he was relaxed. A police vehicle came there and it came to a standstill, and then immediately shots were fired at him. I am talking under correction, but he said that Mr Mamome had fired the first shots. 	Later on he could not tell us who else had fired shots at him because, as he said in his evidence, when you are being shot at and you are running away you just try to get away as quickly as possible. He also told us that later on he was very tired and that he stood still.

MRADV DE JAGER: The incident you are referring to is 6.16 under Mr Motsamai's application, the very last item.

MR STANDER: Mr Chairman, just one minute.

CHAIRPERSON: 14.

MR STANDER: That is correct, Mr Chairman. Thank you.

MRADV DE JAGER: It would assist us if you are referring to which item you are busy with.

MR STANDER: Just be patient with me; unfortunately I did not have the specific document with me while I was preparing my argument. I wanted to refer you to the specific applications.

CHAIRPERSON: 15 and 16.

MR STANDER: As it pleases you, Mr Chairman, and I will continue like that.
	Shortly, with reference to Mr Makubalo, then he was thrown onto the ground, he was assaulted and he identified specifically once again Mr Mamome and Mr Motsamai. He then told us that he was taken to the Security Branch and was further assaulted there.
	The further incident he was involved in is item 6.15, and that was the group of 19 who tried to skip the country. I am not going to try to provide detail about what happened on the border, it is well known information. 
	What is, however, important according to me is the fact that he was brought there, he was brought to the Security Branch, there he was identified as one of the leaders of that group. For three consecutive days, according to him, he was assaulted, and he identified Mr Mamome, Terreblanche and Mafisa and others. And he said that he knew Mr Motsamai very well and also Ngo who was on the scene.
	He also told us that as a result of the injuries he was treated in hospital and still has problems with his ears at the moment because of those injuries sustained.
	Mr Chairman, what I think regarding this witness, I think his evidence was given in a truthful way. In no way whatever during cross-examination it was found that he was telling a lie. I can't deny that one or two differences were shown during cross-examination but these differences can be attributed of less than importance.

MRADV DE JAGER: Can I just hear from you - did the police take him to a doctor?

MR STANDER: That is correct, Mr Chairman. I am talking from memory and you can help me, but I think he referred in that respect to the hospital.

MRADV DE JAGER: Was it during one of those three days, as far as you can remember?

MR STANDER: As far as I can recollect it was not during one of those three days, it could have been afterwards. I can't say precisely which day he was taken to hospital, but I think that one of the police witnesses said that it could have been on the third day, but I stand to be corrected on that point.
	Mr Chairman, the second witness, the second victim which I will be referring to is Mr China Oliphant. He is implicated by the applicants regarding items 6.15. He was also a member of that group who was brought back after they had tried to skip the country. He was identified as a leader of that group and he identified then Mr Tsoametsi.

MRADV DE JAGER: Swanepoel, Terblanche?

MR STANDER: Mamome, Erasmus, Motsamai, Ngo, Kopi and Miningwa. He also tells us that he, for three consecutive days, was assaulted. You will also remember that he testified that his face at a certain stage was so swollen that one of the police officers, I think it was Mr Erasmus, referred to him or said he looked like a monkey.
	 According to me, he was also a victim regarding the murder - just give me a minute to control - in the trial of Mr George Musi. It is item 6.1, the murder in Melk Street.
	Mr Chairman, you will remember that Mr Oliphant testified that as a result of disinformation which was distributed by the Security Police, he was branded as the murderer of Mr George Musi. He also tells us that his family up till this stage has rejected him totally as a result of that disinformation provided. You will also remember that here in the dock while he was interrogated regarding this incident, that he burst into tears and some members of the Truth Commission had to assist him. As a result of this what was done to him according to his uncle's murder, he can also be regarded as a victim. 
	I am going to refer to the Lekiklane ladies together to save time.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you go on, he went to a mental hospital as a result of his treatment.