Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1992-05-12

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I have - give evidence to the effect that two of our comrades in Natal, as I said earlier, were asked by the ANC and they were given assurances by the ANC leadership that if I testify in the trial, I don't have the specific details but I had it at that stage of the inquest, if they testify in the trial they would get the necessary protection.  Those two comrades were killed very shortly after testifying.  I was not prepared even though Mandela gave the assurance of co-operation to sacrifice my comrades.

GEORGE BIZOS: One of the other issues - the accesses into Shell House - you were asked to name the accesses and you requested that it should be kept confidential and did you write out the accesses other than the front entrance and the two garage entrances on a piece of paper and hand it to the learned Judge?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That's correct, I informed the Judge.

GEORGE BIZOS: The learned Judge had at some time - we're not sure whether it was before or after an inspection in loco at Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I was told that, I wasn't there.

GEORGE BIZOS: Now you were told about or you were questioned about the political motive and a portion of your application was read out, could you please have a look at page 4 of your application?  Page 3 is what was read out to you but not the supplement of page 4 and in which you've set out in greater detail and more particularly the last sentence that this would derail the elections as planned by the IFP?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That is correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: Now, just for the sake of clarity, about the duration of the period of the shooting, once we deal with the learned Judge's findings, on page 51, the type page Mr Chairman, I'm sorry that our copy hasn't got the - it's 205 I'm told Mr Chairman, of the large koki pen pagination.  I'm sorry I mispronounced it but you mustn't expect too much from an uitlander.  The last paragraph - "the shooting seems to have lasted for only a very brief time, perhaps about ten seconds according to one witness and when it had abated, eight people lay dead or dying on the pavement on the street opposite Shell House in the vicinity of the north western corner of the intersection of De Villiers and King George Streets and many others were injured."  Do you accept the period found by his lordship of ten seconds?"

GARY JOHN KRUSER: It's very difficult to recall but I can accede to that.  It seemed like a lifetime at that stage.

GEORGE BIZOS: Have you or did you before the inquest court and before this Committee make full disclosure of everything that you know about this event?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: To the best of my knowledge, Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BIZOS

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] these groups that came towards Shell House prior to the last incident when the shooting occurred, did you see each of those groups?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I recall three groups prior to the event.  I was either on the ground floor or on the parapet during that time.  While I was there I kept on with observation.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

GARY JOHN KRUSER: They were very hostile, they were performing mock attacks, smashing down the posters in front of Shell House, those sort of things Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Were any of them armed?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: They were armed, various groups were armed with various different dangerous weapons, pangas, assegai, sticks.  I specifically, in the one group, while I was on the parapet saw a man with an automatic rifle wrapped in a jacket with the top coming out, I could see.  Other members of the department saw other guns, that's all I saw.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have a clear picture of the different groups, the three groups?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I recollect the one group going westwards, one eastwards and one down Plein Street, that's my recollection of that.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] time that lapsed between the first group and the second group?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I would say about twenty minutes, I not clear, I'd say around twenty minutes to half an hour.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the one after that?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The last group was round about tennish, I remember that the one which there was exchange of gunfire with Klein Street, round about tennish that one took place.

CHAIRPERSON: And how long after the previous group did they come?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: Probably the same time I think the duration was probably about twenty minutes I think, more or less all the groups.  Twenty minutes, half an hour, I'm not exactly sure.  It's very difficult to recall.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you form any impression whether the activities of these groups was co-ordinated or were they completely independent of each other?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The previous three groups were led by police officers with a van and people - they seemed to be organised and moving somewhere with the police were at the front of the groups itself and I got the impression they were being led somewhere.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that that morning you went to Lancet House as well.  When you arrived at Lancet House had the group already left there or were they still there?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: There were just those people lying on the ground being treated by medics, there were no groups in that vicinity.

CHAIRPERSON: But the marchers or those who took part in the demonstration, they were not there?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I didn't see any people there.

CHAIRPERSON: The slogans that were being chanted - were there slogans being shouted or chanted by these people?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The slogans - I think it was mainly Zulu, I don't speak Zulu so I could not interpret - I was told by people some of the slogans.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know what they were saying?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: No I don't.

CHAIRPERSON: The information that was received by the ANC the evening before this incident, when was that conveyed to you that there was going to be a march the next day?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: No we were aware of the march beforehand Mr Chairman.  Information I received on Sunday evening was to the effect that the march was a decoy to attack Shell House.

GARY JOHN KRUSER: And this information, was that conveyed to you by members of the ANC?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The late Commissioner Radu was my immediate commander who conveyed that to me, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: The news that Lancet House or Hall was attacked, how did that come to you?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: When I came in from the basement to the foyer there was a phone call and the security guard in the reception indicated that there's someone on the phone and I still - I'm not sure I think it was Africa Khumalo, I'm not exactly sure -but I was informed by a phone there was an attack and shooting at Lancet Hall.

CHAIRPERSON: After the shooting and when the crowd had disappeared, were any weapons found on the road or on the ground?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The main incident Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Outside Shell House.

GARY JOHN KRUSER: From what I saw, I saw dangerous weapons and things, I didn't go very close to the marchers, we stayed on the corner, we stayed on the corner, we didn't go very close to where they were.  I never saw any guns or anything from where I was standing.