Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-11

PROF TERBLANCHE: As I said, I was cut short, or a paragraph, that perhaps what we need - perhaps let me start at another point.  A clear understanding of the structural nature of the whole process of exploitation or at least ascension(?).  It's so important, that perhaps the government should consider the possibility of appointing another commission, parallel to this one.  A commission that I would like to call a 'justice and reconciliation commission'.  Such a commission can then perhaps also investigate the possibility of the suggestion that I've made of a wealth tax.  Without a clear understanding of the systemic and structural nature of exploitation that have taken place, over the last at least hundred years, it would not be possible for business and other beneficiaries to make the necessary confessions, to show the necessary repentance, to experience the necessary conversion and do, be and to be prepared to make the necessary sacrifices.
 All these things, confession, repentance, conversion and sacrifice, are not only pre-requisites for forgiveness by victims.  All these things are also a precondition for promoting social stability and systemic justice in the long rung.  Social stability and systemic justice are in their turn, preconditions for economic growth and job creation.  I'm also making the point that although the 'De Beer' (?) program,  which is an excellent program.  I think it was formulated in too narrow economic terms.  It did not give enough attention to the real problem South Africa.  
 South Africa's real problem is not an economic problem.  The real problem is the absence of a real social structure.  And to create that kind of social structure and social stability, and systemic justice, I think we need not voluntarily, archbishop, not voluntarily , ...(inaudible) but restitution in the form of a wealth levy.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Alex.

DR BORAINE: Professor Terblanche, I'd like to follow up on that question, which you outlined on page 25.  In your proposal you talk about ten or twenty years.  I'm sure your familiar with the German experience in 1945 where a single, once-off tax was imposed upon those who were in a position to afford that.  That's the first part of the question, is it not in your judgement possible, possibly counter productive to have this for a longer period of time.  It is not possible to consider a shorter period.  Second in discussion in the TRC about this whole question of inequality and poverty which I agree with you, is the fundamental problem facing South Africa and would create enormous instability and therefore make business development almost impossible as well.  If we had to take that with the seriousness that you have taken it with, the people who would be requested or demanded of to pay that tax, would be in large measure, a small white community.
 In terms of the new constitution, it has been argued against me, publicly, that this would be unconstitutional, because you cannot discriminate on the grounds of race.  Those are two questions I 'd like you to answer please.

PROF TERBLANCHE: On the first one, the German case, I can't remember  that typical German word, but it was in place for forty years from 1948 till 88.  It was a tax on those, who did not lost property during the war.  Now people had an option to pay a lump sum immediately, or to pay a very small percentage for a forty year period and my information is that it was very important in (word unclear), Germany, West Germany it was and for, played a role in what is commonly called , (word unclear).
 On your second question, that is maybe unconstitutional.  No, I'm not proposing that such tax only, wealth tax only, be imposed on whites only.  Other people also benefited for example, Homeland leaders and those that participated in the tri-cameral parliament etcetera, etcetera, especially in this period of optive dominance during the eighties.   All people with assets of more than two million, two million one can make quite a strong case that directly and indirectly, they have been the beneficiaries as Mr Man-, Professor Man-, what's his name? Mandani, called them and that those that have especially been beneficiaries, have been enriched, as I said undeservedly, will have a responsibility towards those millions, eighty million, that are now living in abject poverty.  Something must be done and I think this kind of wealth levy will have a very important symbolic value.  
 It is to my mind needed also for mainly white adult education of what really happened during this century in this " wye en droewe land"  van NWP Van Wyk Louw.

CHAIRPERSON: Baie dankie Professor. Please stand down.  I am pleased to welcome Minister Jay Naidoo.  His trying to be modest and sit at the back, and also I see a friend from Germany.  They've just been talking about Germany.  Rudolf Hentz.  You are welcome here dear friend.  Right you are, will he have the representative of Nafcoc please.

DR BORAINE: Good morning gentlemen.  Welcome, thank you very much for coming.  Can I ask, will all three of you be participating or one or more.

NAFCOC: All of us will be.

DR BORAINE: Would then all three of you please stand, and could I ask whether you would like to take the oath or the affirmation?

NAFCOC: Yes, the oath, thank you.

DR BORAINE: Dr Boraine administers the oath.

NAFCOC: All participating parties, take oath.

DR BORAINE: Thank you, please be seated.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kongwane, could you please introduce your colleagues and yourself for the record.

MR KONGWANE: Thank you very much.  I am accompanied here actually by the whole leadership of Nafcoc.  Before I introduce these gentlemen sitting with me here, I would like to introduce to you the Deputy President of Nafcoc, Mr Rabilee(?), he is sitting right there at the back and the Senior Vice President Mr Mokwena and the Chief Executive Mr Mochabe.  Sitting with me here is, on my right, Mr George Ngota who's been at Nafcoc a very long time and on my left is Mr Michael Lieve who is a past Secretary General of Nafcoc.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.