Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

MR LOWIES: I want to put it to you that you could not have seen Mr Zulu, because he was in Natal on the day of the incident.  You must have been confused.

ELSIE BUWA: No, I deny that, he was present.  I even heard his voice as he left my house, calling out: "Come out you comrades, we have arrived".  I maintain he was there.  I can say it in front of his face, he was there.  I am a churchgoer, I would not tell something that is not true.  I would not tell lies.  Jesus Christ does not condone lying.  I do not align myself with such trickery.

MR LOWIES: No, I'm suggesting to you that maybe you are making a honest mistake, that you saw somebody else and thought it was Mr Zulu.

ELSIE BUWA: The only person who is making a mistake is the person who says Mr Zulu was absent, that is the person who is making a mistake.  When a person tells lies he should be aware that God knows what he's doing.  I fear God.  The person who does not respect God, will perish.

MR LOWIES: My instructions are that on the very same day he was in Natal and over that period, the 15th to the 17th he ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lowies, what point will it serve to put that question, which is already denied, she said he was there.

ELSIE BUWA: He was there I maintain, Zulu was around.  I don't know if there are two Mr Zulus, one here, one in Natal.  The truth must be told, that is why I am here.  I will not sustain injuries for nothing.  Mr Zulu should tell the truth, he should explain to me why he was killing me.  Where is he today?

MR LOWIES: Do you hate Mr Zulu?

ELSIE BUWA: I hate him for what he did after we had been together in the township, I hate him for what he did to me.  I don't know what I'd done to him.  I do not owe him anything, I had never done anything to him.  He should explain to me why he was killing me at my own house.  He should explain here.

MR LOWIES: Do you know what position he held at Kwamadala Hostel, in '92 and at present?  Let's start off with '92.

ELSIE BUWA: No, I never even went there, I do not know about the goings-on in the hostel.  I didn't even go there, I never used to go there.  I've never been there.

MR LOWIES: I want to suggest to you that you think he was behind the attack and therefore you place him on the scene of the attack, whereas he wasn't there.

ELSIE BUWA: No, I am saying I saw him with my own eyes.  This is not something I was told by somebody else, I'm the person he attacked.  Why does it seem like we're going to spend the whole day speaking about this, something I do not understand.

ADV SIGODI: Please answer the questions only, we don't need you to elaborate so much.

MR LOWIES: Didn't Mr Wilson Baloyi tell you that Prince Zulu was there on the night of the attack?

ELSIE BUWA: How would Baloyi tell me that if Mr Zulu was in my own house and Mr Baloyi was at his home.  Mr Baloyi did not tell me that.

MR LOWIES: What I'm suggesting, maybe to put it clear, didn't he also mention the fact that he saw Zulu outside there on the night of the attack, didn't he mention it to you?

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand her evidence, she's denied that she spoke to Mr Baloyi.

MR LOWIES: Thank you, Chair.  Did you do anything in the presence of Zulu, to protect the children from being assaulted?

ELSIE BUWA: I told you before that the other grandchild I was trying to protect when I was hacked on the finger.

MR LOWIES: How did you try to protect the child, what did you do?

ELSIE BUWA: I raised my hand and that is when Mr Zulu hacked me and my grandchild was running to me.

MR LOWIES: Your evidence regarding Prince Zulu is denied.  I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LOWIES

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions?

MS PRETORIUS: Only a couple of questions, not many.

CHAIRPERSON: How long will you take, because it's about 3 o'clock and I had ...

MS PRETORIUS: Well maybe when we come back, but it won't be long.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well, we'll take the tea adjournment now.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Buwa, may I remind you that you're still under oath.

ELSIE BUWA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ma'am.

MS PRETORIUS: Mrs Buwa, that particular day, did you have any warning of an imminent attack, before the attack happened?

ELSIE BUWA: No, nobody warned us.

MS PRETORIUS: Mrs Buwa, and then you said that you hate what Vanana Zulu did to you, was there a lot of animosity at that time in Boipatong against the residents of the Kwamadala Hostel? - before the attack.

ELSIE BUWA: No, I do not know.

MS PRETORIUS: I have no further questions, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PRETORIUS

MR DA SILVA: I have no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

MR BOTHA: I have no questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOTHA

MR STRYDOM: I have no questions, thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Tanzer?

MS TANZER: I have just one or two questions.
	Mrs Buwa, are you a parishioner at Father Patrick's church?

ELSIE BUWA: I attend the Apostolic Church.

MS TANZER: Is that Father Patrick's church or not?  My apologies, I retract that question.  When did your children stop going to the Kwamadala Hostel to learn the traditional dance?

ELSIE BUWA: They stopped a long time ago.

MS TANZER: A long time before the attack on Boipatong?

ELSIE BUWA: They left a long time ago, long before the attack.

MS TANZER: Did they stop going because of the acrimony
that existed between the Kwamadala residents and the Boipatong residents?

ELSIE BUWA: No, my children were taken away by their mothers.

MS TANZER: So in fact they would have gone had they stayed with you, they would have continued going had they stayed with you in your home?

ELSIE BUWA: They would have continued going there because there was no acrimony between us and the Zulu family.

MS TANZER: On the night of the attack, did you notice whether Mtwana Zulu or any of the unknown attackers had firearms with them?

ELSIE BUWA: They had a sharp instrument, I did not notice any firearm.

MS TANZER: Do you know the in-laws of Mtwana Zulu well, the Mothos?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, they grew up with my children.

MS TANZER: Do you know whether the Mothos were at home on the night of the attack?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, they were present.  The lady of the house came to us the following morning and she went into Mxane's(?) home.  They were present.

MS TANZER: And their house was not attacked that night, on the night of the attack?

ELSIE BUWA: No, they were not attacked.

MS TANZER: You gave evidence that on the day after the attack the Koyoco arrived and they offered you some clothes, you also gave evidence that Mr Baloyi came out to see what was going on.  What was his attitude towards the people in the Casspir?

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean when you say; "What was his attitude towards the people in the Casspir"?

MS TANZER: My question is, how did he relate to them, was he hostile, was he friendly, was he asking; where were you the night of the attack, what was his attitude, what was his ...

CHAIRPERSON: Asking who?  Was Mr Baloyi asking the police whether ...(intervention)

MS TANZER: No, I'm asking this witness what Mr Baloyi's attitude was when he came out to the Casspir, when the Casspir, when the Koyoco arrived, excuse me, when the Koyoco arrived outside her house the next day, and she gave evidence that Mr Baloyi came out too.  That was my question, does she recall what his attitude towards the police in the Casspir were that night, that day.

ELSIE BUWA: Mr Baloyi did not do anything, he did not even speak to the police, he was just standing there observing.

MS TANZER: I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination.

UNKNOWN: None thank you, Chair.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, I've got no questions, Mr Chair.