Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: There is a reason or a justification because we were there to tell her to close her shop.

MR CLARKE: The initial statement that you submitted with your application for amnesty, which was undersigned, stated that you had initially gone there to - sorry, Mr Chairman, this is at page 28 of your record, about three quarters of the way down, where the five incidents are referred to - the initial statement reads as follows
"The fourth target was a farm shop which was selling groceries to the farm workers as we were busy with a consumer boycott.  We met a white lady and we demanded weapons.  After she denied having weapons we assaulted her with open hands."
That explanation there is a far cry from the explanation that you today offered the Committee, not so?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: That is not so, this is the same explanation.

MR CLARKE: The explanation as I understood you today, was that you went there to tell her to observe a consumer boycott and when she stuck her hand under the counter you attacked her.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: This is the same explanation, it's connected, because if she didn't reach under the counter we wouldn't demand weapons.  And our intentions to go to her shop was to tell her to close the shop and if we would get a chance to get a firearm or ammunition we would then take those.

MR CLARKE: Just to rap up I would like to set out her version of events.  She instructs me that at approximately 2 o'clock on this day, her husband had moments before set out on business to town, set out to town on business, that as she opened initially one of you entered the premises and asked her to get down a Makweta blanket from one of the top shelves.  She told whichever one of you it was that, whichever one of the three of you it was, that Makweta blankets were all the same and that you would obviously know what a Makweta blanket looks like, if you want to buy one she will get one down for you.  Moments thereafter the second accomplice entered the store with a balaclava on, got onto the counter and demanded a coke, a coca-cola drink.  She then could clearly see that there was something drastic about to happen and started moving towards the door when a third person entered, who was by all appearances keeping guard.  She was then assaulted, I mean strangled and struck with fists, choked and money was demanded.  She indicated that she could not open her till.  She then pulled the till - when one of you tried to open the till as well, she then pulled the till from the counter which was chest height, fell to the floor, it still wouldn't open.  The noise attracted her 14-year-old son.  The 14-year-old son caused the three of you to take fright, you stopped the attack and you ran away.   Do you dispute that account of events?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I dispute that when she says that the second person went in with a balaclava on.  I was the one who had a balaclava in my pocket.  I was the third one to go in the shop, so I dispute that.

MR CLARKE: She specifically denies that firearms were demanded of her and she specifically denies that there was any mention of the current consumer boycott.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: That is what we told - that is what I told her when I went in the shop, because I was in a hurry.  These people were in the shop and I was waiting for them outside.  I thought that they would tell her that why was she operating in a shop.  I then realised that they were not coming out.  It was a long time.  I just went in and told them that we must hurry up and go, and then I said to Mrs Clackers, why was she trading in her shop?  I went next to her, she then reached for something under the counter.  I was the third one to go in.  The first two were already inside the shop.  And the fact that we struggled because we wanted money and the till fell down, that is not like that.  She is the one who told us that she would give us money.  We saw that as just wasting time for us, we were in a hurry.

MR CLARKE: The nett result is that she absolutely denies that what you claim you were doing was an act associated with a political objective and asserts that this was an act of common law robbery.  What do you say to that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: What I'm saying is, this was not something that we planned ourselves, this came about at the time of the boycott, that we must go and close shops, it is not because we wanted to rob.  That is not like that.

MR CLARKE: The second and the final closing point she wishes to raise is that you've not made a full and a truthful disclosure of what happened on the day and accordingly that the Committee should, by reason of that, be precluded from granting the amnesty that you seek.  What do you say to that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I'm asking for forgiveness because those were not our aims.  I didn't have anything against here.  I'm also worried about things that happened at the time, things that affected a lot of people, that we're quite far from them.  So I apologise and I would like her to listen to what I'm saying, the way I'm saying it.

MR CLARKE: Just to backtrack very briefly, and I'm virtually finished, Mr Chairman.
	Before you entered the shop, did you wait there some time?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, we didn't wait.

MR CLARKE: Did you see her husband setting off for town?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, we didn't see him.

MR CLARKE: I see.  Mr Chairman, if you'd bear with me.  Mr Chairman, in all likelihood I'm finished.  I take it you're taking your lunchtime recess now?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, what do you want to do, check your notes or are you not ...(intervention)

MR CLARKE: I beg your pardon.  There are one or two minor issues.  I'd like to raise them when we restart at 2 o'clock, but I promise I won't draw it out any longer.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  We'll take the luncheon adjournment and reconvene at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nokawusana, I remind you that you are still under oath.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Clarke, have you got any further questions?

MR CLARKE: (Cont)
	Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have very few as I promised.
	I would like to just clear up that sequence of events, according to my client, when the attack took place in her shop.  I had put it to you that one of you who by your own admission appears to be you, grabbed her and manhandled her.  My instructions are that she was throttled, she was - one of you grabbed her and squeezed her windpipe very viciously, was that you?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct, I am the one who was mishandling her, but I did not strangle nor squeeze her windpipe.

MR CLARKE: Who did so?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I was the one who was wrestling with her, but I did not strangle her.

MR CLARKE: You must have seen who did so if you didn't do it, who was it?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I never saw a person who was doing that.  When we left there I was the one who was wrestling with her.

MR CLARKE: She carried severe bruises on her throat for a number of months after this attack, which bore testimony to the viciousness of it.  Who did it?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: As I've already explained that we were wrestling, but I cannot remember myself strangling her.

MR CLARKE: If you didn't do it you must have seen who did do it because you were engaged with her in hand-to-hand combat.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I did not see anyone.  I was the one who was wrestling with her, but if she says that I strangled her I am saying I did not do that, or perhaps if that happened, maybe I have forgotten about it.

MR CLARKE: Someone then approached from behind her with a knife, did you see that?  One of the three of you approached her with a knife, about to stab her.