Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duncan Village — 1996-09-23

BONGANI FINCA: We would call Nombelelo Elizabeth Thole and Nongoku Zwelifile.  Will you please come forward.

REV XUNDU: I would like them to take an oath.  Nombulelo, will you please stand up.

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Nongoku?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

BONGANI FINCA: We welcome you to this Commission.  I would like you to put the microphones in your heads because Ms Crichton is going to ask you questions.  She will ask you questions in English and you will get interpretation in Xhoza.  Thank you, over to you June.

JUNE CRICHTON: Good afternoon Ms Thole, good afternoon.  You can hear me?  Can you hear me?  I am conscious that I do not want to interrupt.
 Let's try again now, can you hear me now?  I am conscious that there is an audience here who needs to hear what you say, so I am going to ask you very few questions and let you tell your story.  I may need to interrupt you
to clarify a point, though.
 After the funeral on the 13th of August, two days after it in fact, your brother was shot and killed, by the South African Defence Force soldiers.  Would you tell us as much 
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as you know what happened?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: Yes, I will tell you.  Yes, I can explain.  My brother Zandisile Thole was shot on the Monday, in the morning and men had been asked to go outside and he was sleeping.  People came in our house and they said all men must go outside and my brother went outside.
 There is a street called Bomele Niomzamo, we found him ...

BONGANI FINCA: Sorry I want to interrupt you.  There are people listening in the house, there are people listening on their radios around South Africa.  They are listening because they want to hear your story.  Please when you are talking, be clear so that people can hear you, thank you.

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: It was on Monday when Zandisile was shot.  People came at home in the morning, they said that all men must go outside, and he was sleeping at that time.
 And they came to my house and they told us that all men must go outside and he also went outside.  When they were around the Bemene Street near Mzamo, someone came at my house and told us that Zandisile was shot on the corner and we went there and we saw that he was shot at the head and in his leg.
 We didn't find any car so that we can take him to the hospital, some boys helped us to take him, to try to take him to the hospital.  When we approached Gonstown, we saw a car coming because there were no cars near Duncan Village and then we went through the Coloured area in Buffalo Flats, we went to the hospital and the hospital was so full, we waited for a long time.
 And they came and took him to the wards, we left him there.  We went back home with the car.  On Tuesday we went 
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to the hospital to look for him, it was so difficult for us, we also went through the Coloured area.
 In hospital they told us to wait, and we waited.  While we were still waiting, two nurses came to us - they told us that he died yesterday, he didn't survive.   That is when we knew that he was dead.

JUNE CRICHTON: Can you tell me about the funeral, were there any incidents at the funeral?

INTERPRETER: Can the Speaker please come closer a little bit to the mike?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: On the funeral day he was buried, but whilst we were still there, people said that the soldiers were near the holes in the stadium.  We waited there for a long time before we can go to bury him.

JUNE CRICHTON: In your statement you say that you want assistance with your deceased brother's child who is schooling.  How old is this child?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: He is 12 years old, he is 12 years old.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is he at school still?  Is he at school?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: Yes, he is at school, he is in standard 4.

JUNE CRICHTON: Were there any civil claims made, did you visit an attorney at all?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: No, we didn't go to any attorneys because we didn't have money, he was the only breadwinner at home.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is there any other request that you have that you want to put to the Commission?

NOMBULELO ELIZABETH THOLE: My request is about his child.  I want his child to be educated.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much, Ms Thole, I am going to hand you back to our Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you June.  Are there any questions?
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Thank you.  Are there any questions?  Okay, take the next person.

JUNE CRICHTON: Nongoku Zwelifile, take the stand please.  Can you hear me Ms Zwelifile?  Are you comfy now and can you hear me?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: You are here today to tell us about your brother, Bonakele Bongani Zwelifile, is that correct, who was shot?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: Yes, that's correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: Shot on the 11th of August by the South African Defence Force, is that correct?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: Yes, he was shot by the soldiers.

JUNE CRICHTON: Will you tell us what happened as you understand it?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: What happened on that Tuesday of August, there were men who came to my house and they, when they arrived at home, they said that they want all men to be outside.  They didn't respond to that and this people waited outside and they said that they want all men to go outside.
 And my mother said to the children they must go outside, I am the oldest and my brothers are younger than me.  I said to my mother, they are younger, they should not go outside and I said to my mother she doesn't know who wants them and why they are wanted and then he woke them up and said they must go outside and they went outside.
 They left us there at home, they were shot and my older brother came back home and he didn't, he wasn't shot.  The other one - he was shot in his heart where there was an ID book in his pocket.  My mother said that that looked like my son and it was him.
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 He was taken there and he was dead at that time, people were not aware that he was dead.
 They wanted to take him to hospital, but they couldn't.  When the car arrived the owner of the car got injured.  He was shot, but fortunately ... (tape ends)  My older brother was fainting because he was so shocked at home.  My mother was so afraid, he was so scared.
 He asked me to go to Cambridge because they were so afraid, they were not strong, they were weak.   They wanted me to go there to take my brother to the mortuary.  They asked me what happened, and then I said that people arrived at my home and I don't know who they are.  I didn't see them.
 We waited for the funeral day, praying and soldiers used to come while we were still praying and the comrades used to come to my house to pray and the soldiers used to go there every time.
 We were so scared, even when the comrades were praying for us, we were so afraid.

JUNE CRICHTON: Ms Zwelifile, I'm going to stop you at that point and I want to ask you a question.  You say that after he was certified dead and a year later, you were told to go to court.  Will you tell us about what happened at court please?

NONGOKU ZWELIFILE: I received a letter from court and then I asked my brother to accompany me there.  We went to the court, I didn't go to the courtroom, I just went to another room, to the private room.  And I was asked a question of whether my brother hit the police with stones and then I said I didn't know that, because my brother was not alone.  And he didn't throw stones to the police.
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JUNE CRICHTON: Can you tell me how they tried to persuade you.  You said they tried to persuade you, what did they do?