Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-04

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Truly speaking, I would not say why there
were so many rumours that I was a police informer and I was feeling very bad because I even approached Lawyer Whitey, I even approached Lawyer Whitey, I even approached the person who was alleging that I was an informer and he refuted or the people concerned refuted all that and my neighbours knew very well that I was not an informer, that these were lies.  Those people kept saying all those things and on the other hand I had those who were supportive wanting to investigate why and where were the rumours coming from.  Now, they kept framing me as a police informer.

MR LEWIN: Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.  Thank you.

MRS SEROKE: Nhlanhla, you have said in your statement you were tortured because you were manufacturing petrol bombs at home, you opened your own factory of petrol bombs.  Is that true?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes, that is true.  Not alone.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: With other Comrades.

MRS SEROKE: Were you alone or you had some company in this manufacturing?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: As I have said, we were many, except that the venue was my home.

CHAIRPERSON: Please, people, we are here to listen to each and every word that comes from the witness.

MRS SEROKE: What was your intention in manufacturing of these petrol bombs?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I hated police, I hated Boers because quite many times you will find people being shot for no apparent reasons.  Everyone was a victim, even the innocent one and we decided this was enough and this was too much, we should
start manufacturing petrol bombs now and we decided now that when we see any Hippo or any police vehicle, we will fire at it.

MRS SEROKE: Okay.  Now, the people who turned around and said you are an informer and even gave evidence against you, were they taking part in this, in all of this?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: No, we had our own area.  At times we will meet other people coming from different areas.

MRS SEROKE: What do you know about the murder of Mrs Dilana, the nurse?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: There is nothing that I know, absolutely with regard to the nurse.  As I say, this is the TRC, I am here to tell you the truth.  Now that I did not say anything about the nurse, that tells you that I was not involved in the killing of the nurse.

MRS SEROKE: Order please.  You do not know a thing about the killing of Mrs Dilana, the nurse, but you know she was killed?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes, I know she was killed.

MRS SEROKE: You say you launched an operation after they injured you at your private, on your private parts.  How are you fairing now?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: No, I feel good, I feel good about myself.  I, that is what I will say.

MRS SEROKE: Okay.  Order please.  Order.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Buthelezi, we are very grateful for you to come and share with us today.  We quite appreciate the trauma you experienced both from the police in prison and, perhaps, even from the Comrades who later turned against you.  I think you will have a broad mind and understanding that the times from which we came or from which we come were possible and it was possible to produce all that kind of mixed reaction towards each other.  So you will appreciate that those who might have called you an informer, it was simply because of the pressures of the time.  I think it if for you to look at them very broadly now and understand that they were liars and time will prove who you are.  We thank you heartily and we say grow and be above all these things and give our regards to your family.  Thank you.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: No, no, no.  No, I have no peace whatsoever and I will not forgive.  I do not even see why the TRC is existing and how it is helping us in a way.  If the TRC was conducting its work the right way, it was supposed to let me make mention of the names because I know those names, but if you refuse me to mention those names how I am going to reconcile.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Buthelezi.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I want to mention the names now.  Why did they decide to call me a ...

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please ...

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: police informer because ...

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please listen.  We have never stopped you from mentioning those names.  If you did not for the time that you were sitting there, do not blame it on this body.  We are saying thank you, let us give others a chance.

MR LEWIN: Did he give us the names?

RUSSELL ALLY: Sorry, where is.

CHAIRPERSON: You can still, you can still give us the list of those people.

MRS SEROKE: Tom, the names are in the statement anyway.  We will deal with that later.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for the, we have the list of those people.  Thanks, please, I can literally say, can you please learn to give us the quiet that we need which, I think, you personally need, because you need to understand what is going on and you will appreciate that if you have got remarks to make, please make them out of here.  We would love to give everybody a chance.