Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

PAULINA MOGALE: Those were attacked before us or after us.  Because we only came across one that was burnt and others were stopped after they have burnt our taxi.

MR LEWIN: So there were a number of other cars or taxis being attacked at the same time?

PAULINA MOGALE: Yes it is so.

MR LEWIN: Was there any way of identifying or saying where the people came from who were attacking, these 100 men?

PAULINA MOGALE: I am not able to tell you on that score.

MR LEWIN: And afterwards was there anything ever done to identify this attack, who the people were?

PAULINA MOGALE: Nothing.

MR LEWIN: Have you any idea how many people were finally killed in that whole incident, not just in the taxi, but in the other attacks?

PAULINA MOGALE: I can estimate them at more than 100 there were many at the mortuary.  Those who were in our taxi were on the one side and those from other taxis and from private cars.

MR LEWIN: And the other statement that you gave was you said the policeman said that they didn't want to say anything because they were scared.

PAULINA MOGALE: Yes it is so.

MR LEWIN: Can you explain that, why were they scared, who were they scared of?

PAULINA MOGALE: I didn't ask them whom they feared and why they didn't want to speak about the incident.  According to me I thought that what was done was a thoroughly planned thing.
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 MOGALE

MR LEWIN: Planned by whom do you think?

PAULINA MOGALE: I do not know.  I request you to investigate that matter.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  Yes we will certainly do so.

MS MKHIZE: My question to you Mr Dladla at the time when this happened did people know exactly where the taxis were heading to, to different sections?  Even you Paulina when you got on board the taxi at Noord Street, did you know who this taxi belonged to?

PAULINA MOGALE: We didn't know.

MS MKHIZE: When you say you saw about 100 people what were they wearing?

PAULINA MOGALE: The one I saw clearly because I didn't want to be seen as they would shoot me on the head, I saw one of them wearing a Municipality overall with the letters "JM".  I won't tell lies I could not identify his face.  I saw a "JM" overall.

MS MKHIZE: There was something that they said or did you just see them unexpectedly?

PAULINA MOGALE: I only saw them when they ordered the taxi to stop, swearing.  I just looked once and then I ducked.

MS MKHIZE: When they ordered the taxi to stop were they speaking a language that you could understand identifying them as people who stay in the location or were they from outside the location?

PAULINA MOGALE: I cannot tell where they came from but they were speaking in Zulu.

MS MKHIZE: Paulina when you say the taxi driver took the money bag and the keys and stopped the car, ran away, do you think he knew what was happening, did this deliberately and run away?
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
11 MOGALE

PAULINA MOGALE: When we went to the police station on Sunday the policeman said the driver was at the police station in the morning, he is still alive.  It's like they did nothing to this driver.

MS MKHIZE: On this matter of the driver when he took the money bag and the keys we want to understand what happened when he stopped the taxi.

PAULINA MOGALE: After the driver left the taxi I didn't see where he went because I hid myself in that taxi fearing for my life.  Maybe I might get shot. I cannot tell in which direction he ran.

MS MKHIZE: What I am trying to find out here is did he lock the taxi or he ran away or he just walked, why didn't others leave the taxi?

PAULINA MOGALE: He took the money bag and the keys and walked away. He didn't run away.

MS MKHIZE: At that time before you hid yourself, I can understand it was very confusing at that time, maybe some of the people might have thought of escaping from the taxi, what we don't understand is that the taxi driver ran away and the rest of you were seated in the taxi.

PAULINA MOGALE: We were sitting inside the taxi.  The way these people attacked us we were not afforded even a chance to do anything whether to open the door or do whatever we might think of. Everybody wanted to shoot at the taxi.

MR LEWIN: Mr Dladla and Paulina I would just ask one final question, was there any newspaper report that you know of that appeared after this incident?

PAULINA MOGALE: I cannot understand the question.

MR LEWIN: After this incident did you see it reported at all in any newspaper?
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
12 MOGALE

PAULINA MOGALE: What I did read was the Monday edition of the Sowetan.  There is one man who said he witnessed the incident that there were White policemen.  Not knowing whether he is around here, what I am telling you is what I read in the newspaper.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.  We can follow up on that.  I would also appeal if there's anyone who knows or has come across the other man that you mentioned who managed to escape with you, if you know of him or if anybody else has come across them please ask him to contact us.  Paulina if I could ask please before you do leave if you could leave with us your full name and where we could contact you because we will follow up on this.
 I would like to thank both of you.  Paulina thank you very much for joining us.  Mr Dladla thank you very much for coming forward.  The story that you tell is another terrible one because it is one of such senseless violence where people for no reason at all, totally innocent people lose their lives and have such an impact on other people's lives, the lives of you and your family.  We would like to offer you our condolences.  We will certainly follow up as much as we can on this incident and try and get to the reason for why it took place and who was responsible.  We would like to thank you very much for coming to join us.  Thank you.