Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-19

MR LOWIES: Jotham Zulu working there for longer than 20 years.

MR LOWIES: Sifiso Phinda Zulu, according to this person, may work there now but he does not know what the situation was ... Let me rephrase, Chairperson, I started with the wrong name and I apologise.  Everything I was wrong.  Let me start again.  Nkambuzana Bernard Zulu did definitely work there in '92, he's now on pension.

CHAIRPERSON: So that is the one that, you should have started with him?

MR LOWIES: I'm sorry, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, so we'll simply make an arrow here, right.  Amos Velenkosini?

MR LOWIES: He thinks he works there now but he does not know whether at that stage he worked there.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.

MR LOWIES: Mr Qwambelani Buthelezi I think knows that he's been working there.

CHAIRPERSON: What about Jotham?

MR LOWIES: Jotham Zulu works there for 20 years.

CHAIRPERSON: At least that's one thing that was correct.  Alright.

MR LOWIES: Sifiso Phinda Zulu, not sure whether he worked there then, has a suspicion he works there at present.

MR LAX: So the suspicion regarding whether he works there applies to both Sifiso and to Amos?

MR LOWIES: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, yes?

MR LOWIES: That's all, thank you Chairman, that I know of.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, is Mr Lowies saying that all these persons were present during the attack?

CHAIRPERSON: No, these persons were working at Iscor in 1992 and they were accused persons at the trial.  That's all I'll answer.

MR LOWIES: No, the point is not, I'm not implicating them on behalf of my clients or anything, all I said is they were working there and they were accused persons, fullstop.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Pretorius?

MS PRETORIUS: I have no questions, Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS PRETORIUS

MR DA SILVA: I have no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

MR BOTHA: I have no questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BOTHA

MS PRETORIUS: Mr Mey has no questions, Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MEY

MS TANZER: I just have one question.
	Did you know whether your husband worked closely with Vanana Zulu, when he was at Iscor?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: ...(indistinct)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

MR LAX: Just repeat your answer, the mike wasn't on.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: My husband worked at Iscor Medical Station as a nurse there.

MS TANZER: My questions was, did you know whether he worked closely with Vanana Zulu, while working for Iscor?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I would not know that point because they are at the firm and I am not there.

MS TANZER: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, Chairperson, I've got a question.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: You made mention of Miriam Monokoane.  I just want to put to you she testified at the criminal trial and not your husband, but according to her testimony she heard the following at the stage when the people came into your house, as far as I can recall, Bafokeng Street.

CHAIRPERSON: You say ...

MR LAX: George.

MR STRYDOM: No it's Miriam who testified, George did not testify.

MR LAX: You're saying George didn't testify, Miriam testified.

MR BERGER: It has not been interpreted for the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Mrs Monokoane, what counsel is putting to you firstly is that according to the court records your husband did not testify at the trial.  Do you have any comment on that or don't you know?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I do not know, Sir, because he would leave with my daughter-in-law when they were called.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and is your daughter-in-law Miriam?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the second aspect of the question is that according to the records only Miriam, that is your daughter-in-law, testified but you don't know that.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I do not know that Sir, because they were first from home to that place.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Strydom.

MR STRYDOM: Now from Miriam's evidence it appears that she was in fact asked if she heard the people that came in say anything.  That appears in volume 14 on page 1585, towards the bottom of the page.  Now she was asked
"Did you hear any people talk at any stage?"
That's now with reference to after they had been in the house, came into the house and her answer was:
"Yes, when they came into the house - yes, as they were coming into the house they asked: 'Where are the dogs'?"
And then she used the Zulu words:
"Zipi izinja"

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: So did you also hear that?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: At the time they entered the door, after they had kicked the door inside.

MR STRYDOM: And she didn't state anything further in answer to that question, and specifically did not state that she heard your late husband saying anything.  She doesn't state that.  I just want to put that to you.

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I would not be able to answer that because I do not know.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malindi, do you have any re-examination?  I beg your pardon, Mr Mapoma.

MR MAPOMA: I have no questions, Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: Just a few questions, Chairperson.
	Mrs Monokoane, where was your daughter-in-law Miriam during the attack?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: She was in the bedroom.

MR MALINDI: And where was your husband?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: He was standing at the door of our bedroom.

MR MALINDI: And where were you?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I was hiding.

MR MALINDI: Where?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: Underneath the bed.

MR MALINDI: Of which bedroom?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: In my daughter's bedroom.

CHAIRPERSON: Which daughter?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: There is a daughter of mine who was also stabbed, she is still at school.

MR MALINDI: Can you say what the distance more-or-less is between where your husband was and the bedroom where Miriam was in?  Chairperson, I think the interpretation is no - the question that I asked.  I'm asking the distance between where ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Put the question in Sotho.  Put the question to her in Sotho if you can.

MR MALINDI: Oh, okay, Mr Chairman.
	Mrs Monokoane, would you tell us the distance between the room where your daughter-in-law Miriam, was sleeping and where your husband was attacked?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: Miriam's room is at the passage as you walk out of the sitting-room and my husband's room is on the left.

MR MALINDI: Thank you, Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MALINDI

CHAIRPERSON: Just repeat the answer, I didn't catch that.  Miriam's room is where?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: It is on the right of the passage as you leave the dining-room.

CHAIRPERSON: And does this room open to the passage?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And where was your husband?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: He was in our bedroom.

CHAIRPERSON: And does this bedroom also open into the passage?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: That is correct, the passage that leads to the kitchen.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this a separate passage from the one that you referred to earlier on, to which Miriam's room leads to or is it the same passage?

PHULANE HILDA MONOKOANE: I'm referring to two passages.  These passages, the other one is from Miriam's room and my room.  They are separate passages.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Yes, thank you.  Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: I said I have no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, I beg your pardon.  Mr Sibanyoni?

MR SIBANYONI: I've got no questions, Mr Chairperson.

ADV SIGODI: No questions, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ma'am, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the adjournment now and we will return tomorrow morning at half past eight.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS