Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-15

MR LANDMAN: I want to put it to you that the bomb in Bree Street was not planted in an attempt to stop the elections and that is apparent from the fact that the AWB never demanded that the elections be stopped after that bomb took place, after that explosion occurred.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

MR LANDMAN: It wasn't connected with a demand that: "You have now seen what we can do. You must now stop these elections." You never made that demand and I want to put it to you it is clear from that that, that bomb wasn't planted in order to stop the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: Then why would we have done it? For which reason? I don't understand what you are getting at.

MR LANDMAN: Isn't it so that for months before that you were planning a war and you were planning to succeed from the rest of South Africa and form your Volkstaat in the Western Transvaal. Isn't that so?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

MR LANDMAN: So you were planning for a war. Not to stop the election. Weren't you?

MR PRINSLOO: But then why would we want to wage a war? What would we want to achieve then?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Not to stop the elections?

MR PRINSLOO: No, that is not entirely correct. We wanted to thwart the elections. We wanted them to accommodate us in a certain way and we would commit succession in the Volkstaat if Dr Ferdie Hartzenberg were to announce it.

MR LANDMAN: Mr Prinsloo surely you realised by the middle of April 1994 that these elections were going to take place no matter what.

MR PRINSLOO: No we had not yet realised that.

CHAIRPERSON: Why? I mean you are all grown men.

MR PRINSLOO: We still believed Chairperson that a compromise could be arrived at.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you believe that you could win a war in this country?

MR PRINSLOO: Definitely yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But how?

MR PRINSLOO: Because we had the means to do so.

CHAIRPERSON: And when you discovered that Viljoen had left and that things wouldn't be as easy as what you thought they would be, what then?

MR PRINSLOO: Well Chairperson his soldiers were still extremely positive about everything. The army and its staff personally invited me, Mr Terreblanche and a large group of right-wingers to the Cape where we visited the air force base at Ysterplaat where we visited the Naval Bases. We visited Oudtshoorn. I was lead through the Western Transvaal with Mr Terreblanche to investigate stockpiling locations which had been established.

CHAIRPERSON: And this never realised?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And we can say it now, I think you could have said it then a few days before the election you could have seen that this was not going to work out.

MR PRINSLOO: We still believed that it would.

CHAIRPERSON: All of you?

MR PRINSLOO: All of us.

ADV BOSMAN: How long before the election did these visits to the bases take place?

MR PRINSLOO: I am speaking under correction but probably within a period of 5 to 6 months or 4 months.

ADV BOSMAN: That was before Viljoen left?

MR PRINSLOO: Long before he left.

ADV GCABASHE: I would like to ask a question. If you believed you could win this war why did you give up so quickly as soon as the first two or three people were arrested? Just put those two things together for me?

MR PRINSLOO: Everyone was arrested without - well many of the men's rights were not read to them and people were arrested without really having had anything to do with the bomb explosion.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo apart from the fact that judges rules were not read to those who were arrested what did that have to do with the fact that you withdrew from a war which you believed in after two or three arrests? If you commit war or if you make war then the possibility exists of ...[inaudible]

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson, that day at the shooting range all members who were present were arrested in a question of half an hour or let's say 50 people were arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: Why would you withdraw if only 50 people had been arrested?  You were busy with a big war with which you would take over the country?

MR PRINSLOO: It was then that we saw that no demands had been put forward by our leaders.  General Constand Viljoen had participated in the election, Dr Ferdie Hartzenberg said that he should be accommodated within the new dispensation and there was nothing left for us to continue with.

CHAIRPERSON: But then, Mr Prinsloo, I'm rather confused or one of us is confused because earlier you testified that the reason why the withdrawal took place was the arrests and you wanted to assist most of the men.  Is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: It had nothing to do with the leadership or what they did or what they didn't do?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So what's the truth?

MR PRINSLOO: The fact that people were locked up, men were anxious, there was chaos everywhere throughout the entire country.  People began to flee.

CHAIRPERSON: Who told you that?

MR PRINSLOO: It was that way.  Many right-wingers fled, some of them are still gone.

CHAIRPERSON: Right-wingers?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes, right-wingers.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.

MR LANDMAN: You see, Mr Prinsloo, I want to put it to you that at the end of your evidence, it's still unclear as to why the bomb was planted in Bree Street.  You still haven't given a satisfactory explanation.  Mr Chairman, in the light of the need for full disclosure, I would have hoped but I've lost hope.  Yes that was to be my last question.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LANDMAN

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Mr Prinsloo, there is one aspect and I promised you this morning in chambers that there would be one aspect.  Fyndooring - there was Generals in Staff meeting at Fyndooring.  If I understand it correctly it was decided at Fyndooring that these bombs would be planted.  Is that correct?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct, more specifically the Johannesburg bombing.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Mr Terreblanche the leader was present at that Generals in Staff meeting?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: During which it was decided to plant bombs and he expressed his approval for this?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you also gave your approval?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Therefore I accept that you would be prepared to accept responsibility for the bombs which exploded thereafter?

MR PRINSLOO: What do you mean?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Sir, you were part of a decision making mechanism and it was decided to plant bombs and I'm asking you whether or not you accept responsibility for those bombs which you did explode afterwards?

MR PRINSLOO: Yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And Mr Terreblanche was directly involved in that and he also expressed his approval for those bombs which were to go off?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And therefore he was directly responsible for the bombs which exploded?

MR PRINSLOO: That is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Then finally, I would like to read something to you and ask for your commentary regarding Mr Terreblanche's affidavit, it's the last paragraph
"As political head of the AWB I accept political and moral responsibility for deeds which were committed.  I accept that during a stormy period before the elections I made many public speeches and the content of my speeches was interpreted by the AWB and it could have been interpreted as orders."
Now I'm asking for your commentary regarding this paragraph from Mr Terreblanche's affidavit and you have just testified that there was a specific meeting which took place, a meeting of the Generals in Staff, during which he gave his specific approval.  Your commentary please?