Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-03-24

ADV THABETHE: What I did is I asked the matter to be investigated by the Investigative Unit and I've got a report back from them and it doesn't mention Mrs May.

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry could I ask - when I mentioned the name Mrs May you said yes, is that correct?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes that is correct Sir.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you know her before the event?

HENDRIK LEEUW: No I did not know her before.

ADV DE JAGER: Any one of your co-accused, did they know her before the event?

HENDRIK LEEUW: I don't think they knew her.

ADV DE JAGER: Did any one of you know Mr Fourie before the event?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you know him?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes I knew him well.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you work for him?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes I worked for him.

JUDGE WILSON: Did Mrs May give evidence at your trial?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes she was present in court.

JUDGE WILSON: Did she give evidence?  Did she go into the witness box?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes she did.

JUDGE WILSON: Thank you.

MR MTHEMBU: Now Mr Leeuw, besides having worked for Mr Fourie how else did you know him?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Mr Fourie was one of the people who was in charge of training, he was one of the commanders in the army.

MR MTHEMBU: Now at the time when you were working for him, where were you staying?

HENDRIK LEEUW: I was staying on the very same farm.

MR MTHEMBU: For how long did you stay at this farm, and when did you leave it?

HENDRIK LEEUW: I stayed there for 15 years, I actually grew up there.  I left there in 1975.

MR MTHEMBU: Now Mr Leeuw would you tell this Committee what is the political objective that you sought to achieve?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Our political objective as a branch of the Operation Grand Storm and as he was the leader of the Free State branch he gave us the instruction to attack these farms.

MR MTHEMBU: I see here Sir on your application form for amnesty, paragraph 7(b), you state that the organisation, the movement concerned or your membership that you were actually a member of the task force, could you explain to this Committee what was the objectives of the task force and it's link with APLA and/or PAC operations?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Task force is closely linked with APLA, it had
to assist APLA in it's attacks on these farms.

JUDGE MGOEPE: So were members of the task force also members of APLA?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Task force and APLA were separate entities but they assisted each other in attacking the farms.

JUDGE MGOEPE: What was the relationship, if any, between the task force and the PAC?

HENDRIK LEEUW: The relationship between the task force and the PAC is that they all formed part of APLA.  They were the military wing of APLA.

JUDGE MGOEPE: You surely must be incorrect here.  PAC was not a military wing.  We know that the military wing of the PAC was APLA, not the other way round, isn't that so?  APLA was the military wing of the PAC,  not the other way round.

HENDRIK LEEUW: APLA is the military wing of the PAC, and we as the task force assisted APLA in attacking the farmers according to the order by Sabelo Pama in 1991.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Leeuw you mentioned Operation Great Storm, would you tell this Committee what you know about Operation Great Storm?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Operation Great Storm was a joint venture of APLA and the task force.

MR MTHEMBU: During the launch of Operation Great Storm in 1991 there were certain objectives of Great Storm that were enunciated, would you tell this Committee about some of those objectives?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes I can.  Operation Great Storm was formed in order to assist APLA to attack the farm owners because they were assisting apartheid regime by training women and children and they were also in the police force in the special branches.  They were assisting in the oppression of
the Africans.

MR MTHEMBU: Sir were you a member of the PAC?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes it is so Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: When did you join it?

HENDRIK LEEUW: I joined in September 1990.

MR MTHEMBU: Have you received any military training of whatsoever kind, and if so what was the type thereof?

HENDRIK LEEUW: The training that I received was through John Showa who came with Oupa Kohla who were within in prison.  He introduced John Showa to us and that was in June and he trained us and thereafter he did this in a house no. 337 in Botshabelo.  He used AK47 firearms and a 3.8 and a Scorpion and a handgrenade and an R1.  After June he left and he said he would come back in November.  That was in 1991, in June, when he promised to come back in November.  He did as he promised and he trained us again.  And he brought one gun, 3.8 Special and left it with us and he said the rest of the armoury we will find it wherever we go and do our jobs.  And he left the word that we must start working and go forward with the African struggle.  And that's when I started getting together Daniel Magoda, Mishek May and Petrus Nkgwedi.  We got all the training in June and in November again he trained us all again and left us only with this 3.8 gun.

MR MTHEMBU: Sir do you have any justification that your acts were committed with a political objective?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes this offence was with a political objective because it was in accordance with an order given by our commander that we must attack those farmers.

JUDGE WILSON: Your commander is the gentleman set out in your application form, Comrade Jan Showa?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes it is so.

JUDGE WILSON: Do you know where he is now?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes I know.

JUDGE WILSON: Where?

HENDRIK LEEUW: He is late.

MR MTHEMBU: Sir, after having killed Mr Fourie why did you spare Mrs May?

HENDRIK LEEUW: We did not see any reason for killing Mrs May.  We were just beating her.  It was just to let her pay the price and to show those who assisted in apartheid regime as to what will happen to them.

JUDGE WILSON: Did you know her or anything about her?

HENDRIK LEEUW: No I did not know her.

JUDGE WILSON: So you don't know if she did in fact assist in the apartheid regime in any way?  She may have been a fierce opponent, is that so?

HENDRIK LEEUW: I could not take any decisions about her because it was the first time I saw her.

MR MTHEMBU: You say amongst the articles that you took, they included items of clothing?

HENDRIK LEEUW: That is so.

MR MTHEMBU: Why did you take the clothing away?

HENDRIK LEEUW: By taking these clothes, it was the command that was given that we should take everything that we can assist those who were disadvantaged.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Did you do that?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Yes I did that.

JUDGE MGOEPE: To whom did you give that clothing?

HENDRIK LEEUW: These clothes were confiscated by the police.  They were taken before we could do whatever with them.

JUDGE MGOEPE: After how many days were you arrested by the way?

HENDRIK LEEUW: After two days.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Yes.

MR MTHEMBU: And the coins that you found in the safe, why did you also remove that?

HENDRIK LEEUW: We also had to take that and hand that over to the organisation so that they should assist the APLA soldiers that were still in the bush, so that the struggle should go on.

MR MTHEMBU: And the vehicle?

HENDRIK LEEUW: We took this car and the Organisation was to decide what's going to be done with this car.  It was to assist the APLA soldiers.

MR MTHEMBU: But now how would that vehicle have assisted your soldiers, using your words, knowing that that vehicle was stolen?

HENDRIK LEEUW: Our taking this car, the intention was to get transport to Botshabelo and this car could generate income to assist the Africans.

JUDGE MGOEPE: I don't understand you.

HENDRIK LEEUW: We were going to hand this car over to John Showa.  He was going to make a decision about it, because he's the one who gave the order that if we can find a car we shouldn't leave it behind.