Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

UNKNOWN: What killed him?

WITNESS:   I went to the police station to report him, but the policemen in Kroonstad did not want to take a case that involved the Three Million gang, and they said it was an unknown murder.

UNKNOWN: In your statement you state that you have your Title Deed, the house was given to you?

WITNESS:   Yes, my boss or employer gave the house to me.

UNKNOWN: Now, after you got this house, on the 16th in 1987, was there any other certificate or Title Deed that was issued to somebody else therefore depriving you of the ownership of the house?

WITNESS:   The certificate was signed 1987.   After a few years the house has been given to another person now.

UNKNOWN: Who got the certificate or the Title Deed?

WITNESS:   Is a member of the Three Million gang, who is still staying in my house.

UNKNOWN: What was his name?

WITNESS:   I know them by these short names, I don't know whether they are nicknames.   It - his name is Brou(?) Lahulu(?), Brou Samson Lahulu.  He is a member of the Three Million gang.

UNKNOWN: Do you know or have any idea as to how he got the Title Deed or the permit to stay in the house?

WITNESS:   I know absolutely  nothing, when you  get a house you get the keys  from the  Municipality office.   And when we went to  ask as to - the  people working at the municipality office were the one who  gave the Three Million gang the keys, they said when I escaped I escaped, I just ran, I never reported the matter to them.   Now, how was I going to report, because I was actually escaping.

UNKNOWN: Can you please tell us who gave them the permit or the Title Deed?

WITNESS:   I don't know ... (inaudible) ...

UNKNOWN: (END OF CASSETTE NO 1)

UNKNOWN: 2A/0 (START OF CASSETTE NO 2)

UNKNOWN: ... it is still like that even now.  When you go to them they say we don't know, that happened a long time ago, go and ask Mr Kwekwe, or go to the Three Million gang.  They don't give you anything tangible to hold on to, they always tell us that they don't know.

UNKNOWN: Now, let's go back to your life.   Where are you staying now?

WITNESS:   We are staying at a certain hostel.

UNKNOWN:   What hostel is that?

WITNESS:   It is Sasoville(?) Hostel, that's where I stay with my husband.

UNKNOWN: Are you paying any rent?

WITNESS:   Yes, we are, we are paying R80,00.

UNKNOWN: How many rooms is it?

WITNESS:   It is a two-roomed ... (inaudible) ...

UNKNOWN: Now, I do realise that you were harassed and traumatized during that time.   How do you feel now, how did this affect you?

WITNESS:   I was very affected, because I don't have a place to stay.   I am not stable in any place.   My children don't have any future, because I myself am not stable, I am staying at a hostel, and at some stage I will have to go out of the hostel because my children will be told that this is not your mother's place.

UNKNOWN: How do you feel physically or mentally or psychologically?

WITNESS:   I was quite disturbed and I got so many diseases thereafter, I ended up suffering from nerves.   I also had high blood pressure.   And I took some treatment at the hospital, as well as a private doctor, who also diagnosed me as being - as suffering from nerves.

UNKNOWN: Do you pay when you go to the hospital?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do pay.  It was R13,00 before, but now it is R15,00 and I am still paying R15,00.

UNKNOWN: Now, have you got any documentation or your cards as to the treatment that you are taking?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have some cards with regard to the treatment that I am taking from Wedumele Hospital, I have the private doctors papers as well as Wedumele Hospital documentation.

UNKNOWN: Are you getting any pension or grant?

WITNESS:   I am not getting any pension, nor am I getting a grant.   At times I don't go for my treatment because I don't have money.

UNKNOWN: Who told you that you will get your grant when you take your treatment?

WITNESS:   It was the clerks who told me, the hospital clerks.

UNKNOWN: Maybe you should try to approach the welfare department, so that they can assist you.   Where is your husband?

WITNESS:   My husband was retrenched, and that's when he left work, so he is not able to go back.   He was actually trying to apply for his pension money.   He was working at the municipality offices, so they are trying to give him his pension.   He hasn't yet got the pension.   It is only now that he is trying to apply and prepare the documentation for the pension.

UNKNOWN: Is there anything that you want to say to the commission, or the help that you need?

WITNESS:   I was just asking for help or assistance with regard to my pension.

UNKNOWN: We thank you very much, because you have come from so far, to come and relate your story to us.   And tell us your problems.   We will hand over to the chairperson.

WITNESS:   I ask that my house should be returned back to me.

CHAIRPERSON: I shall just ask you to explain to us as to what is the Three Million gang?   When they talk about the Three Million gang, what sort of people are they?   And how did they have a relationship with the police, are they still alive?   Just give us a brief explanation?

WITNESS:   The Three Million gang were quite huge people and the ones who were leading the gang are now dead, but the policemen were working hand in hand with the Three Million, because whenever the Three Million was chasing you, even if you wanted to help the community to kill the Three Million gang, the police would come with teargas canisters and throw them at the community, which means they were actually helping the Three Million.   And whenever you were fighting with the Three Million gang, the police would kill you.   That is how it happened, because the Three Million gang now that is left are the youths, who are now scared to go back to their homes, because they are scared of being victimized by the community, because they were used by the leaders, and the people of the ANC now are there, and the ANC has made peace, but these youths cannot go back to their own houses because they knew how they handled the people and how they conducted a reign of terror within the community.   Mr Kwekwe is the one who was taken out of the council, because he was working with the Three Million.   He used to pay them every Monday, and he used to give them food and the SAP was not co-operative, they were protective of the Three Million gang instead of being protective of the community.   That's the life we lived in Kroonstad.

CHAIRPERSON: We have already had Nozizwe Madlala, who spoke about the harassment of women, as well as the decision to lead the community and fight for the rights of the community. As a person who has lost your son what do you think the commission could possibly do for you, or to help the Three Million gang so that they go back and re-integrate into the community so that they can live peacefully?

WITNESS:  I think it can help in combating the crime in Kroonstad that's still be conducted by the Three Million gang.   I believe there is still something that the community can do.   Some other criminal groups or vigilantes are beginning to form now, besides the Three Million gang.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.   I want to add on to what Mama Mkhize has already said.   This Three Million gang, do they have parents there at the location?

WITNESS:   Yes, they do have parents.

CHAIRPERSON: What are their parents doing?   Are they working?   Are they aware that their children were conducting a reign of terror?   How do the people live with the children of those parents?