Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

DR RANDERA: Two more questions.  Again we asked your - the gentleman that we - Mr Lourens, earlier on about motivation as to why he became involved in that year, and I would like to ask that of you.  I mean here you are a businessman from Belgium, you knew sanctions were in existence against this country.  The United Nations had said apartheid was a crime against South Africa, you come to South Africa and sell equipment, I presume this was not on the list of your own country to be selling to South Africa; you break sanctions; you go off to Angola with the South African Defence Forces, can you explain to us what your motivation - was it to do with business, it's about business, or was there other motivations involved?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: No I think there was a very strong different motivation.  When I moved in this country, I have travelled all my life.  I have never stayed more than three or four years in a country because of my father's work.  My father is a retired general in the Belgium army.  I myself I am a rookie lieutenant in the Belgium army, in the paratroopers, and I am very sensitive to - when I came in this country after three years I decided to stay here.  It was for me a first move into a country which I am still am after fourteen years.  So it was a great challenge, I must say, that all of a sudden I could actually, as a businessman take a very interesting line of project, which is totally in my field, on the one hand.  On the other hand do something that I felt was necessary.
 When I was a young lieutenant in the Belgium army we were fully trained on chemical warfare, fully.  So it made very little sense for me for an army not to be equipped, just for the defensive reason, against possible attack or terrorism for that matter.
 So when, after presenting my product for more than two years to the military and always having a no, it was eventually suggested that we could supply it was a very exciting project for me.  And that's only in these terms that I - I actually cleared the moral issue with my father in Belgium and we decided that there was no reason to see that in the list of products that were sanctioning South Africa, there should be a protective product against chemical warfare.  We discussed it with the Belgium company and we came to a decision that it was right, so it was quite a challenging, exciting project for the first three years.

DR RANDERA: Mr van Remoortere my last question.  Is your main customer still the army?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Not at all.  I am not involved with the military at all.  What happened is that we closed once - these projects should have been still running now.  In the manufacturing of the mask with the Swiss we were supposed to go on a 15 years plan here, and when things starting degenerating and Dr Basson started cancelling his contracts we just accepted that it was not the right thing to continue.  So you know I am not - I've sold Protechnic, I've sold Hazmat and I have nothing to do anymore with the supply of any product to the military until maybe they need me again.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  I am just trying to understand why you were taken to Jamba.  You were trying, you were quite anxious to sell this product, the protective clothing.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: But the military was not interested in the product.  Now eventually you managed to sell it to them, but why did they take you to Jamba?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Maybe because the Belgium company have to be - that was the first time that this gentleman came over and he was taken by Dr Lothar Neethling and Dr Basson and myself straight to Jamba and I think there was maybe an effort there to motivate us, which it did, me, it motivated me.  Maybe it was solely for the sake of securing the motivation.

ADV POTGIETER: But that's the difficulty I mean you were very well motivated.  You were - they blocked you for a few years ...(intervention)

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Two three years, ja.

ADV POTGIETER: Two three years.  You were anxious to sell this to them, they didn't want to take it, so you didn't need much motivation on that ...(intervention)

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Yes but we were talking about a different level of co-operation now.  From what I was doing I was trying to sell, to trade these products.  What happened is that they were convincing us to transfer technology and so that the company, the Belgian company had to get fully involved behind it.  I think it was quite a different level of involvement, and maybe they thought - and it worked because the Belgian gentleman was very, very you know convinced that the Russians were using - I mean that was the explanation, now maybe it's not true.  I mean that was the explanation, ja.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes well that will be probably one of your question marks.  But just finally, what kind of business did you establish in Uitenhage?

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: In Uitenhage, it's a wide-width coating plant.  It's PVC coating on woven polyester or nylon which was woven by Industechs on wide-width Susner loom.
 So the company in - the reason why the Belgian company has that is because it's part of the treatment of fabric.  They weave, they make yarn, they weave, they treat, and on the same coating line you can treat fabric and impregnate it with all sorts of things and you can put PVC on the tarpaulins.  So they had a diversity of technology which was good for Industechs.  But they also had, because of the weaving, the manufacturing of the yarns, the weaving and the treating of fabric they could make the special fabric for the protection against chemicals, and that's where that company has all these abilities.

ADV POTGIETER: Oh I see.  So that was really an extension of that ...(intervention)

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Absolutely ...(intervention)

ADV POTGIETER: ...protective clothing business.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Absolutely, ja.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: He is originally from Uitenhage you see.  He wants to know whether..... (General laughter)
 Well thank you very much Mr van Remoortere.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: It's a pleasure.

CHAIRPERSON: And you are excused.

CHARLES VAN REMOORTERE: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally, who are you calling?

MR VALLY: I was thanking you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: You are welcome Mr Vally.  We are adjourned until nine o'clock.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS