Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-20

DEREK GROOTBOOM: After my release from prison, we met, myself and Derek Basson who was my co-accused and who served with me the seven years, comrade Chris Hani at Cowley House in Woodstock and what he asked us to do was to return to our towns and to mobilise the people there because we still didn't have a vote.  One of the demands or one of the campaigns around which we had to mobilise the people was constituent assembly.   Now, when we returned to Dysselsdorp, we were taken up in the ANC Youth League again and I became the Chairperson and Derek Basson the vice-Chairperson.   To mobilise the people around the constituent assembly which would have been responsible for getting us to the democratic system of one person, one vote, was to use local issues and these local issues was for instance that we still had the local Town Council which was in government in our town and our attention was directed to the local Town Council, our attention was directed to the police brutality and also the interference of the police in our campaigns to mobilise people around the constituent assembly idea.   In our mobilisation of people around these local issues, because of the police interference time and again, Dysselsdorp's ANC Youth League Branch decided occupy the police station and to hand a memorandum to the police, as well as to the Town Council and the Divisional Council about our grievances and demands.   We had a meeting on the day that we occupied the police station as the ANC Youth League, where we decided upon this and from where we proceeded from that meeting, to the police station where we occupied it, until the Divisional Council, Town Council's representative did then appear to receive the memorandum as well as the police.

MR WILLIAMS: Firstly, can we just deal with the date.  Is it correct that this incident occurred on the 21st and 22nd of June 1991?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: That is correct.

MR WILLIAMS: Okay, you can continue.

DEREK GROOTBOOM: When we arrived at Dysselsdorp police station, there was only one police person there, Cons Esau.  We entered, the leadership, the Executive of the ANC Youth League entered the charge office while the rest of the 48 others of that group, waited inside the police yard.  They later also, we sent Mark out to call them and they entered the police station and then we started to occupy the police station.  Inside, later Sgt Murray and Tarentaal appeared. Sgt Murray ran away as well as Esau and we did then keep Tarentaal inside the police station with us.

MR WILLIAMS: Is it correct that Sgt Murray was injured by members of the group?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, when they came in, members of the Youth League was still entering the police station, so a scuffle broke out and he was injured.

MR WILLIAMS: Okay, continue.

DEREK GROOTBOOM: While we were waiting on the police, a Colonel or high ranking officer as well as the Town Council persons, one Swart, the Youth League started to interrogate Cons Tarentaal because he was one of the police persons at the time, who was notorious in our community for assaults on members of the community and we also regarded him as part and parcel of the apartheid regime and that he was to us, one of those persons who worked for them actively in trying to oppose us to get to the point where South Africa can be a democratic country.

MR WILLIAMS: Now, is it correct that he was also not allowed to leave there, by the group?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, that is true.

MR WILLIAMS: Okay.  You can continue.

DEREK GROOTBOOM: However, I think I must put it on record that our occupation of the police station was never to harm or injure anyone in the station, it was plainly to go in and to make it clear to the police that we do not like them to interfere in what we thought then was plainly political issues.   And also that we did have problems with them being brutal to members of our community.

MR WILLIAMS: Was a list of grievances handed over to Mr Swart?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, a list of grievances was handed over to Swart and one Colonel from the police and after handing over our list of grievances, we decided to leave the police station peacefully.  We were then arrested and assaulted by the police and later then convicted in the George Regional Court.

MR WILLIAMS: I see in the bundle of documents that one of the statements also says that one of the group members asked one of the policemen to hand his gun to him.  Do you have any knowledge of this incident?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, that is true.  I must also state that when we decided to occupy the police station, we were aware that one of the members in the Youth League was a police informant and he was then also with us in the police station at that time, so - Farrel January - so we actually asked him to take the gun from Cons Tarentaal, to make it safe and to hand the gun then to Derek Basson who had to keep it in his possession for safety purposes.

MR WILLIAMS: What was the purpose of taking the gun from him?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Because we didn't want any violence or that he, Tarentaal, used the gun to injure anyone.

MR WILLIAMS: Okay.   Is it correct that you were charged as a result of this incident?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes.  I was charged with the group as a result of this incident.

MR WILLIAMS: And that you were given a suspended sentence?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLIAMS: You have also stated that you were a member of a political organisation at the time of the incident?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Yes, I was a member of the Dysselsdorp ANC Youth League Branch.

MR WILLIAMS: Did you benefit financially from this incident?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: No, I did not.

MR WILLIAMS: Did you do it because of malice or for reasons of ill-will or spite?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: No, it was plainly for political reasons.

MR WILLIAMS: Is there anything else that you think is important, that you wish to bring to the attention of the Committee members?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: No.  Not at this stage, no.

MR WILLIAMS: Okay.  Mr Chairman, that is then the testimony of the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLIAMS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Williams.  Ms Patel, any questions?

MS PATEL: Thank you honourable Chairperson.  Just for the sake of completeness, Mr Grootboom, Mr Tarentaal stated in his statement that was made just after the incident that after you and Mark Cronje, or after he told you and Mark Cronje that you are not allowed at that specific part of the police station, that he says you and Mark had then pushed him around a little bit, can you recall this, would you like to comment on that?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: I cannot remember specifically that I pushed him around, but that might have happened.

MS PATEL: Okay fine, he also states further that later in the evening he was told that he should sit down and that he was also told that unless he does as he is told, he will be assaulted, can you comment on that?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: Please repeat that.

MS PATEL: Later in the evening after he was taken hostage, he states that he was told by some of the people there that unless he sat down, he would also, and behaved as he was told, that he would also be assaulted if he didn't do as he was told.  Can you recall this?

DEREK GROOTBOOM: No. No, I cannot recall this.  It is not possible because for us, safety was very important, that is why we, and not to assault him or anyone in the police station, but yes, I can definitely not recall that.

MS PATEL: Okay.   Thank you honourable Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Patel.   Has the Panel got any questions?

ADV BOSMAN: I have no questions, thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any re-examination Mr Williams?

MR WILLIAMS: No re-examination Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR WILLIAMS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WILLIAMS: That is the case for the applicant.