Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1998-02-10

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe I should explain to you this way that when your Advocate talked about Cape Town, I didn't understand either as trying to go deep into what you did in Cape Town.  I thought that he was trying to show to us that you were in fact a genuine trained member of APLA, in other words, they didn't just pick you up that evening in Newcastle and just used you there and there.
	He was trying to show that you have got a history as a soldier of APLA, to complete the picture because sometimes you find somebody who becomes a member of a liberation movement, five minutes before he kills people and then he comes and he says, well I am a member of APLA.  For how long, for five minutes, but in order to show that you were a genuine member of APLA he wanted to show some history, that you had been working for APLA for many years or for some time before that.
	But they are not going to ask you did you kill somebody in Cape Town, did you throw a hand grenade in Cape Town, they are not going to ask you that.  We will guard against that immediately.  Do you understand?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: To cut it short, I had a programme to train the defence unit for the PAC.  I also had a programme to oversee the PAC in Cape Town so that the units doesn't get infiltrated and also receiving members of the Force and I also had to train the members of the Task Force.
	Those which were supposed to meet the APLA members, I used to unite them, get them together.

CHAIRPERSON: Does that answer your question Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: In some way, yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Prior, what is the status of those other incidents?  Are they pending?

MR PRIOR: Yes, I understand, I give the Committee the assurance that in so far as the applicant has applied for amnesty for these matters and they do not serve before us today, I will not question on them in any detail whatsoever.
	The question is simply a background question.  I don't know why the applicant is so defensive.  I simply want to go into his background insofar his military background and his training is concerned, which will then lead me to Newcastle.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes, but is the fact that those things are pending before the Amnesty Committee, are they ...?

MR PRIOR: Maybe Mr Arendse can answer.  I know there are several applications for amnesty from various APLA members regarding Guguletu and Khayelitsha and the other matters.

ADV POTGIETER: That seems to apply to both the first and second applicants, they seem to be the operatives and they seem to have been involved in some other incidents now.  We are not sure, be obviously are only dealing with the disco at this stage.

MR PRIOR: May I give the Committee the assurance, we are only dealing with the disco.  I understand that the statements were prepared in response to questions which were directed by the analysts some time ago, regarding the application which indicated some other incidents and in order to identify them, those questions were asked.
	Somewhat belatedly the replies came to those questions and unfortunately they were included in the statement which is now before this Committee.  We are only dealing with Newcastle and to that end I shall not deal in any depth at all, or in any respect, of those other incidents which have no bearing on the Newcastle attack.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: If I understand you correctly, obviously part of the training dealt with the use of firearms, is that correct?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Were you proficient with the use of particularly the R4 rifle?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: And on the evening in question, that is the 14th of February in Newcastle, did you have a fully loaded magazine before you fired into the discotheque?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: And how many rounds did the magazine contain?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: There was 30.

MR PRIOR: You discharged all 30 rounds into the discotheque?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I won't be able to say exactly that I used 30.  I think I used less than 30.  When coming back to the car, I didn't look to see as to how many bullets were still inside, I just loaded full again.

MR PRIOR: Did you change magazines at any stage during the attack at the discotheque?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: We didn't change magazines.

MR PRIOR: Mr Shiceka, did he also have an R4 semi-automatic rifle?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: He had an R5.

MR PRIOR: Does that magazine also contain 30 rounds?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: When looking at the operation, each and every member had to carry his own firearm, to load it, to see whether it is working properly.  I won't be able to answer that question.  I can't answer for you.

MR PRIOR: As the Commander in charge of that operation, were you aware that he had a fully loaded magazine with him, or can't you say?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes, it is usual that it is supposed to be full when you are going to do an operation.

MR PRIOR: Do you know if he changed magazines after shooting initially at the, in other words what I want to know did he change magazines and continued shooting into the discotheque or are you unable to say?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I won't be able to say that because if a soldier is holding his own firearm, he has to take care of his arm and I was taking care of my arm.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.  How many hand grenades were in your possession on that evening?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I had a hand grenade which was one.

MR PRIOR: You mentioned a launch grenade, is that a rifle grenade?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Just tell us the hand grenade is that an M26 hand grenade?  Described as an M26?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Did you have wire nails taped onto the outside of the hand grenade?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: It wasn't reinforced, it was an M16 which was not reinforced.

MR PRIOR: Are you familiar with that addition to the grenade by taping wire nails onto the outside of it to cause maximum carnage when it explodes, or are you not familiar with that method?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: We use those type of hand grenades as APLA members, that is correct.

MR PRIOR: All right.  You have explained why you never threw a grenade into the premises.  What about the rifle grenade, were you supposed to shoot that into the premises?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The launch grenade too was prepared for reinforcement if ever we meet a roadblock when coming back.  We didn't intend to use it at the disco.  The hand grenade we didn't launch or throw it because there were bars, iron bars, it could bounce back near us and also injure us.

MR PRIOR: Tell me before you started shooting, did you find out whether there was a back entrance to the discotheque?  A rear entrance?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: The back door was not used by us.  Our aim was to, we shouldn't take longer time to enter into the disco, however, we were operating from the outside through the front door.

MR PRIOR: What I am driving at very simply is, were you able to gain access from the rear entrance or was that door locked which prevented you gaining access to the premises?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: I didn't investigate as to whether the back door was locked and since the targets were selected, when leaving the restaurant, we went straight, we aimed to go and attack the disco.

MR PRIOR: All right.  You had previously identified the discotheque as a target together with this restaurant in Newcastle, is that so?

WALTER FALIBONGA TANDA: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: And did they qualify as targets because they were frequented or they were places frequented by white people only?

INTERPRETER: The microphone was off, can you repeat the question please?

MR PRIOR: Were the targets identified solely on the basis that they were places frequented by white people?