Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-20

MR SIBANYONI: Okay.  I heard you keep harping on the issues to say that for the offence for which you are serving imprisonment now you were arrested for your car.  In other words, did I understand you correctly to say for this offence you were framed in order to influence you not to expose people you were working with at Ndwedwe?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: That is correct.  I had already started to give information to the police about what was happening at Ndwedwe.  I could ask for amnesty with regards to criminal activities I would have but I do not want to mix issues.  I was arrested and convicted, I was framed for that offence because I had started telling on the people who had been involved in the crime.

MR SIBANYONI: But what do you specifically mean when you say: "I was arrested for my car", what does that mean?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I requested an ID parade in Court.  There was no ID parade in Court.  I was never given a warning statement, I was never given that opportunity.  Normally I would have been given a chance to make a statement but I was not given a chance, I was just charged.
	The prosecutor asked me if I had a car and he asked what type and I said a green Toyota Corolla and they said I was lying.  They asked me where I had got it from and I said I bought it from Cele and they said I was lying.  They said the car had been stolen and it was stolen from Mr Cele.  It was originally a blue car.  I was told, it was alleged that I had stolen that car from Mr Cele and repainted it.
	I explained that the car is in Kranskop but they said I was lying.  I was sentenced for 10 years for that.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Chairperson, I've got no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sibanyoni.  Mr Lax, do you have any questions to ask the applicant?

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Before I move on to a more general question I want you to look at page 18 of the papers.  Well before you do, I can ask you the question without you looking at it, don't worry, Mr Gwamanda.  Mr Gwamanda, are you listening?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Yes, I am listening.

MR LAX: Did I understand your evidence correctly that after you had stopped the first taxi at Gumede's place, that you kept the two people who were in the taxi, the driver and the other chap, in the kombi with you and you then drove into the premises.  The one person wouldn't stop resisting, as you put it, he then left the kombi and shots were fired at him when he got to the door of the house, is that correct?  That's what I understood your evidence to be, is that right?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: That is correct.

MR LAX: Okay.  I'll read to from page 18, paragraph 26 of your statement and your affidavit.  You say
"We kept the driver and the conductor in the kombi and waited for the other taxi which was driven by the owner according to these two persons."
You then carry talking about waiting there for the 30 minutes and what happened and then the other vehicle arrived.  In the way you've told it in this affidavit it's only after the shots are fired and the taxi owner falls out of the vehicle that you then, and I'll read:
"We instructed the lady to get out from the kombi, which she did.  The driver and conductor of the other kombi were ordered to get out and shots were fired at them."
Now what the question I want to put to you is that there are two quite different versions of the same event here, one in your affidavit and one you've told us in your evidence today.  Please can you explain that for me?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I did explain before that the paragraph is not correct, this was not properly written.  I did say that.  The information contained here is incorrect.  I did mention before that I was going to explain it.  Even the TRC Investigators knew about it.  I explained to all of them about this paragraph, that it was written in a hurry therefore it was incorrectly written.  Maybe there was a mistake when they translated from isiZulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we know that it is a mistake because Mr Mpshe has confirmed that the Gumede family say what you have said here today to be exactly what happened.

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I made this statement in isiZulu and the person who took the statement translated it to English.

CHAIRPERSON: No, we understand, we accept that this statement is wrong, either because it was taken in a hurry or else because it wasn't properly interpreted.

MR LAX: Thank you, Mr Gwamanda, I just wanted that explanation.
	The second aspect I want to move onto is, and I'll start first with the issue of Mr Phosa and your training.  What was your personal political motivation for undergoing that training and for participating in an assassination attempt on Mr Phosa?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I would not have gained anything by killing Mr Phosa.  That is the reason why I have come here before this Committee.  I realised that my agreeing to work with those people was a mistake and my killing Mr Phosa would not have helped me in any way.

MR LAX: Yes, you may realise that now but I'm saying at this time when you were doing it, what was your political motivation?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I would explain it in this manner.  I was convicted for a criminal offence and that is what I knew to be the reason for my being incarcerated in prison.  This happened unexpectedly and therefore I did not have any reasons and objectives.
	The reason for being in prison in the first place was to serve my sentence and get it over with and return to my community, try to find a job.  I had been involved in criminal activities because of the hardships that I'd experienced.  I was earning as little as R22,00 a month and that is what propelled me into crime.
	Therefore, when I was in prison I did not know anything about it but I was very happy when Mr Mandela was released from prison.  It was a joyful moment in the prison when we were arrested.  I did not have any aim or an objective of killing Mr Phosa, what happened happened unexpectedly.

MR LAX: Okay.  And then if I can move to the offences that you committed when you were in Ndwedwe.  What was your political objective in participating in those offences?

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: I cannot mention one political objective because I grew up in Greytown(?).  I am well-known in the community and my family is known in the community.  My house was burnt down and I could not flee the area because a lot of people had fled the area.  I stayed because I wanted to find out more about what was happening in the area and that is how I have all this information I have today.
	Of all the people that were attacked at Ndwedwe, none of them can actually identify Mfayela because this happened in secret.  I still maintain up to this day that I was not a member of Inkatha, I was just forced into these activities.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mchunu, do you have any questions arising out questions that have been put by members of the panel?

MR MCHUNU: None, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MCHUNU

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Falconer?

MR FALCONER: None, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR FALCONER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel?

MR NEL: None, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mukadam?

MR MUKADAM: No, thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I'm in the same boat, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Thank you, Mr Gwamanda, that brings to your testimony to a close, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

BOY VUSIMUZI GWAMANDA: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mchunu?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, on the question of argument, Mr Chairman ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mchunu, is that the case for the applicant?

MR MCHUNU: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Falconer?

MR FALCONER: Mr Chairman, I won't be calling any witnesses, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel?