Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1998-01-27

ADV MEMANI: I'm sure that the bombing of the house of Winnie cannot be described as unrest if it happened at night and it was not known who did it.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Yes, I would agree with you.  I was given the instruction to investigate the matter, specifically the house.  In the case of the clinic I said it was not of a political nature and it was transferred to the detective branch at Brandfort.

ADV MEMANI: How was it determined that it was not of a political nature?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Are you referring to the clinic?

ADV MEMANI: Yes.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: By enquiring on the site of the crime what had happened, I asked whether there had been a collection of people but there was no indication of that nature, I just heard that the place had burnt.  I didn't know what else had happened and I determined that it wasn't unrest related and I transferred it to the Brandfort branch.

ADV MEMANI: And what prompted you to go there in the first place?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I received an instruction from the senior officer to go there because the house had allegedly been burning.  I did the preliminary investigation.

ADV MEMANI: Obviously you were sent there because it was Winnie Mandela's house and it was anticipated that there was a political motive for the bombing of her house..

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Yes, whether politically or otherwise unrest related. I don't think at that stage when the person sent me out, he knew exactly what had happened.  One probably received information that there was a fire at the clinic and that had to be investigated.

ADV MEMANI: Did you also investigate in the attempted murder on Ngo?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No, I did not investigate that.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Bester, where were you before you went to security branch?  I'm sorry, you might have told us but I missed that.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I was with the detective branch and I did detached services with the security branch.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Bester, we know that security branch's interest was in matters of a political nature.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: If that was a questions, yes it was so.

ADV MEMANI: And I do not understand why you do not seem to be prepared to say yes, you were involved in a political nature only.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I'm going to give you a very easy reply.  There were two investigating teams with the security branch, the unrest investigating team of which I formed part and then the investigation team of which I was not part, which investigated those matters.

ADV MEMANI: This unrest that you investigated was related to the political situation in the country isn't it?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: In broad terms yes, it would probably have been related, the unrest stemmed from the political situation in the country.

ADV MEMANI: And you must have come to know about the "Eagles Club"?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I had nothing to do with them.  I later heard of them, long afterwards I heard of the "Eagles".

ADV MEMANI: Did you hear about the "Anti-comrades Gang"?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: What I did know was that there were comrades and there were people who were not comrades but I know nothing about anti-comrades but it could have been non-comrades, people who were not comrades.

ADV MEMANI: No, a gang that called themselves the "Anti-comrades Gang" or that became known as the "Anti-comrades Gang".

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: It is possible, If that's the way you wish to state them.   I didn't know them as anti-comrades, I knew them as people who were not comrades.

ADV MEMANI: A gang is a formation, did you know a gang that called itself "Anti-comrades", Bester?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: No.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Mister Bester.

ADV MEMANI: As the Chair pleases, I'm sorry Mr Chairman.
	Mr Bester.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't behave like that again Mr Memani.

ADV MEMANI: I promise I won't Mr Chair.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chair, I was not aware of a group, a gang which called themselves the "Anti-comrades Gang".  The way I understood it, there were people who were comrades and there were people who were not comrades but the people who were not that, I don't know whether they had formed into a gang.

ADV MEMANI: And did you come to know about the "Three Million Gang"?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: In 1992 I first had something to do with the Three Million gang and that was the first time I heard anything about their existence, that was in 1992.

ADV MEMANI: Did you come to hear about Mr Peshlani?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I know Mr Morgan Peshlani very well.

ADV MEMANI: And did you know about the attack on his shop?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: If you could just guide me as to the date approximately when that attack took place?

ADV MEMANI: Well it's whether you knew of an attack on Mr Peshlani's shop or you do not know about it, irrespective of the date.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I heard on an occasion that the shop had been burnt, where the front door had been set alight.  If you're referring to that, yes, I know about it.

ADV MEMANI: And did you come to know that his son was involved with a gang that was called the "Anti-comrades Gang"?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chair, I've stated a number of times that I didn't know about a gang named the anti-comrades.  I had replied that I knew there were comrades and people who were not comrades.  If his son was not a comrade then I accept that the question is correct.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Bester, you can't assume that people were not comrades were anti-comrades.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I agree with you.

ADV MEMANI: Yes, and did you come to know that Mr Peshlani's son was associated with the "Anti-comrades Gang?

CHAIRPERSON: How many times must he tell you that he has never heard of such a gang?

ADV MEMANI: As the chair pleases.  I was trying to remind him in a way Mr Chairman, it might help him recall to repeat it.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the second time you have repeated it. He's answered the question once already.

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chairman, may I ask the question for the last time?

CHAIRPERSON: No.

ADV MEMANI: As the Chair pleases.
	Now Mr Bester, did you come to know about the "Eagles Club"?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Yes, I came to hear of them and that was in Bloemfontein and even in Botshabelo.

ADV MEMANI: Did you come to hear about them in Brandfort?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I think after I heard of them the first time, cases didn't occur in Brandfort which I had to investigate but more in Botshabelo and in Bloemfontein because I really didn't hear about them in Brandfort until such time as this notice had been served on me and I read about it.

ADV MEMANI: When was it that you heard about them for the first time?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chair, it was probably in the late '80's, I would guess '87/'88, I'm not 100% sure, it should have been round about that time.

ADV MEMANI: And at that time, did you come to learn that they had previously been operating in Brandfort?

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: I first heard that they were active in Brandfort after the notice had been served on me.

ADV MEMANI: And we were told in a separate application that certain incidents occurred which involved members of these gangs and comrades.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Chairman, it's possible, I don't know about it.

ADV DE JAGER: That the Eagles were involved or which gang?

ADV MEMANI: Mr Chairman, I'm not so sure of the particular gang involved in this instance but I'll quote an example, in one instance a comrade was killed and no investigation followed.  If my memory serves me well, it was the "Three Million Gang" that killed him.

HENDRIK JAKOBUS BESTER: Mr Chair, with all due respect, I cannot answer that questions, I do not have any knowledge of it, I did not investigate it and I honestly don't know anything about it.

ADV MEMANI: Let me be brief and say that we heard evidence that there were many occasions where comrades were involved in conflict with these gangs.