Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I can see that, sir.  Before I explain here.  In Davel, after the burning of the house, I realised the need that - I realised it's not going to work because there are ANC members who like to avenge, so I have to get people posted in Davel since it was not necessary to have them in Ermelo.  So each and every house we posted young men and one day as I was coming to check my posted men.  I was with Jomo, Bongani Khaba and Sdiga.  I started from Mkhonza's place.  I found Bongani.  I ask the whereabout of Dumisani.  Bongani said, "Dumisani have just left.  He is going to Felani's place".  And I said, "Okay, I'm going".  And I passed to another place where there's a lady by the name of Gumbe.  I checked that place and thereafter I went to another man's place by the name of Mathibula, I don't remember if he was an Ikatha member.  I found some young men there.  I asked them how they progressed.  Unfortunately I had three (3) rounds in my firearm and I realised that things were still fine.  When coming back I met about fifty young men.  They asked me how does it come about that the ANC people are getting killed.  They stopped us in the middle of a road, they were holding stones and fork spade and spades.  They said during the times of the Black Cats, it was Sibusiso, I don't remember well, I think he ran away with my identity or my photo to join the ANC in Davel and they already know me and I could see that as they start ask questions to this man that there will be problems.  And I asked Sdiga and Jomo to keep quiet and I told them that it's better that I speak to these men to avoid any conflict.  The information they had was that there was a policeman from KwaZulu who is killing ANC members.  Things became tough.  I was armed with this 9mm which I got from Noah and there were many and they were having stones on their hands.  I pulled out my firearm.  This shining gun like the glass windows at the interpreters' booths and it is - I mean the frame, the steel frame.  They said it's a toy and they came towards me.  I shot one on the arm and I realised that I only had three (3) bullets, and when I shot Sdiga and Bongani realised there's going to be a fight and they ran away and I was left.  I gave them a distance to run away and they didn't enter Mkhonza's place, they passed the place and ran.  I shot one on the arm, they all scattered and I was left with two shots and I ran away.  They followed me.  I realised they were coming close to me.  I kneeled on the ground and I shot back.  They stop and I started running again.  And we ran until we entered a farm, a white man's farm.  When we arrived there Sdiga was stabbed by the comrades and he had been stitched on his stomach.  As we were running and then I shot the last one.  The police in Davel has already noticed this and they were running on the other side of the road trying to stop us at the front.  I said to them stomach down.  They lay on the ground on their stomachs and then we hid in the grass.  They came to the grass because they saw us and then they found us.  They took us.  They didn't arrest us or handcuff us.  They took us and Felani asked me, "What are you exactly doing.  You could have been shot because we didn't know it was you".  But they said, "No, you don't have to worry because nothing will happen".  At the time we were at the police station ... (intervention)

MR WILLS: Sorry, sorry, Mr Hlongwane, I want you to slow down a bit.  I just need to ask you one or two questions.  You're referring now to the time that you were arrested by the police, is that right, after the incident where you had the shootout with the fifteen (15) ANC people?  Is that right?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Just to go back to the incident, just to finish the incident.  I just want you to say that we've subsequently established that one person was injured and his name was Patrick Vilikazi in that incident, and he was in fact injured by a bullet wound to his forearm, is that right?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: So when you say that you hit one of them in the chest, you were mistaken in that regard?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think he said chest.

MR WILLS: I'm referring to when he says that in the affidavit.  When you say in your affidavit that you hit one of them in the chest and he fell down, you're actually making a mistake there?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now, returning to the aspect you were busy discussing regarding how you were arrested after this incident, you refer to a person by the name of Felani.  Who is this person?  Is this the same Felani that you spoke of earlier, ie Felani Mthethwa?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Okay.  Tell us what happened after the police got you, but if you can please, Mr Hlongwane, try and slow down.  There's people trying to take notes and I'm trying to keep up with you.  Just slow your pace down a little bit.

UNKNOWN: Mr Wills, before it escapes me.  You will notice that not only is the fact that one person was allegedly shot in the chest, which is not what is being said now in his evidence-in-chief, but he has also said that he ran away after shooting this person when he was left with two shots, with two bullets.  And in his affidavit he says that he actually ran out of ammunition and that's when he ran away.  Can you just clear some of the things which seems to be contradictory to the evidence-in-chief which has been quite a few things appearing here.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Hlongwane, you see here in the end of your affidavit, you say you only ran away when you ran out of ammunition, but in your evidence-in-chief you said that you ran away whilst you still had two shots left.  Can you just clear that up, tell us what the position was to the best of your recollection?  And, Mr Hlongwane, all we're wanting here is the truth as you can remember it.  If you can't remember something a hundred percent (100%) you mustn't be afraid to say that.  We just want to know what you think, what your best memory of these incidences are.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: When we were still discussing with these men and we started an altercation and these other two ran away who were in my company and that's where I took the firearm and shot once, and I ran with my arm loaded with two bullets.  After running away they chased me.  As they were coming closer I was forced to fire the next shot.  I shot at them.  They stopped and I started running again and I was left with one.  And that's where I find Sdiga who was injured.  I hold him by the hand.  They were coming closer.  To stop them from coming closer I shot the last bullet, fired the last bullet and we ran a bit and the police were coming and then I instructed them to lie on their stomach.  That's where we were hiding under the grass and the police saw us and they came and found us and took us out from that place.  I didn't ... (incomplete)

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Hlongwane.  Now, tell us what happened when the police arrested you?