Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-21

STEPHANIE MILLER: I recall contacting Tongaat Funeral Services who were listed in the mortuary records, and discovering that they had now changed to an ambulance service, they were no longer a hearse service.  They advised me that they did not have records that would go back far enough, but that these were held, that they had a contract with the hospital in Stanger to use Charlottedale cemetery in Groutville, and that they would retain the records.  I contacted Stanger hospital and ascertained that they did in fact have the records and they gave us access to them.

MR VISSER: And that record isn't here either?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I don't know if they're here, I have not got them.

MR VISSER: Yes, neither do I.

STEPHANIE MILLER: However, I do note that in the bundle there's some ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Can I just ask a question?  There are some documents in the bundle, 85A, 86, registers of burials, 87, are those not ...?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Those are the registers that I photocopied.

MR VISSER: Oh well I'm sorry, then I misunderstood completely, I'm looking for something entirely different.  Thank you.
	So these are the records which you then ...(intervention)

STEPHANIE MILLER: We went through at Stanger, yes.

MR VISSER: Okay, thank you.  I beg your pardon for having confused myself with this.  But the point is, the original of these aren't here, the full record isn't here, this is an extract of a record of which we don't have the full record here, that would be correct?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I think that is ...(indistinct)

MR VISSER: You see, and I'm going to tell you why I'm asking you these questions, it's because I'm going to suggest other possibilities to you other than number 580, and I already foresee the problem we're going to run into,  because the first problem is, did you ever draw post-mortem reports on those cases?  That's the first question.  And the second question is, do we know in which graves they were buried, you see.  So that's why I keep on harping about the records, okay.  And I'll come to that.

STEPHANIE MILLER: Mr Visser, I can only speak to the case that I did.

MR VISSER: Yes, yes.  Well, you're going to have to speak to more than that because you say this was the only possible case, and I'm going to mention some others to you, two others in fact.  Now you arranged for this exhumation to take place, as I understand the position.

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's correct.

MR VISSER: At that stage, had you attended other exhumations which you also had arranged before?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I had attended other exhumations, not that I had arranged.

MR VISSER: You hadn't arranged them?

STEPHANIE MILLER: No.

MR VISSER: But may we assume that you knew how to go about arranging such an exhumation from your previous experience of how you saw it was done?

STEPHANIE MILLER: No, I had no experience of arranging an exhumation, I had never done one before, I had seen it done twice previously.

MR VISSER: Right.  Where did you see it done twice previously?

STEPHANIE MILLER: At Elandskop and at Tongaat.

MR VISSER: Did it - well, were there photographers at Elandskop and Tongaat, when those exhumations were done?

STEPHANIE MILLER: There - to the best of my knowledge there was a video, I do recall a police video unit being present and at Tongaat I do recall a huge press core being present, so yes, there were a lot.

MR VISSER: What I find striking is the fact that a body is exhumed and there isn't a single photographer in sight, can you explain that?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I didn't arrange for one.

MR VISSER: Why not?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I had never done an exhumation before and I had not been advised by my superiors to get one present, so I did not do that.

MR VISSER: What do you think were the photographers doing at Elandskop and Tongaat then?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Oh I knew what the photographers were doing, in Tongaat certainly, the photographers I saw were putting it in the newspapers and on the SABC and the video camera, I wasn't sure at Elandskop who had arranged the video unit in fact, I didn't know whether the amnesty applicants had done so, or we had done so.  I subsequently found we had done so, but at that time I was not aware.

MR VISSER: Yes.

STEPHANIE MILLER: An explanation, Mr Visser, I think I have to explain at this point that I was part of the civilian component of the Truth Commission, and therefore possibly might not have known all the correct procedures in a legal proceedings such as this.  Had I obviously been aware, I would have arranged suitably.

MR VISSER: Yes.  I accept that you're not a legal expert, nor are you a medical or a pathological expert, nor are you a ballistics expert, do I assume correctly?

STEPHANIE MILLER: You assume correctly.

MR VISSER: Yes, well we'll deal with your evidence on that basis, that you went as a civilian and you did what you thought was the right thing to do.  Alright.  But I just have to place this on record, because it does create problems for us in trying to come to the truth of what the situation is.
	Now you said, and I wrote down what you said, you said:
"The body bag with the remains was handed to the SAP and the SAP handed it to Dr Naidoo", (then you said) "For the second post-mortem to be done."

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes.

MR VISSER: Now I take it that is assuming that it is Ms Kubheka and it's assuming that it's a body on which a previous post-mortem had been done.

STEPHANIE MILLER: Well if the paper trail was correct and it was the correct number, then a post-mortem allegedly had been done.

MR VISSER: So it's on that assumption, certainly.  Thank you.  You say just thereafter that you then contacted the D'Oliviera team and you were able to meet Capt Holmes and you also obtained Vlakplaas records, and then you said you went to see them, and I just want to ask you who precisely are you referring to when you say
"I went to see them"
did you refer to Vlakplaas, or to the D'Oliviera team?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I went to Pretoria to meet with Mike Holmes and Insp Pietersen(?)

MR VISSER: Thank you.  Now again, accepting that you're not a ballistics expert, you say that
"...was of particular interest"
was the words that you used.  
"On the other bodies which were found at Elandskop, all three had bullet holes on the top of their heads."
Is that a correct reflection of your evidence?

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's what my memory is, yes.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Well you also referred to Verulam and bodies exhumed there.

STEPHANIE MILLER: A single body exhumed there.

MR VISSER: A body?

STEPHANIE MILLER: A single body.

MR VISSER: Is your recollection all of them had bullet wounds in the top of the head?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes, or in the head.  Maybe not specifically on the top of the head, but in the head.

MR VISSER: Well this body which we are now dealing with, had a bullet wound on the top of its head.

STEPHANIE MILLER: That's correct.

MR VISSER: I just read to you my note of what you said, that
"The other bodies found at Elandskop (and as I have it), at Verulam, all had bullet holes on the top of the head."
You say you want to amend that slightly by saying "in the head"?

STEPHANIE MILLER: I don't want to amend it insofar as - as my memory serves me, I think they were all shot in the top of the head, but I don't specifically recall the Verulam specifically, as being in the top of the head, but being shot in the head.

MR VISSER: Well, you would have been correct to take the amendment, because they were not all shot on the top of the head.

STEPHANIE MILLER: But they were all shot in the head?

MR VISSER: They were all shot in the head.  Mrs Miller, on the issue of photographs, you were here in September when this matter was first heard, can you remember, last year?

STEPHANIE MILLER: Yes.