Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-25

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: It is painful that somebody had to be killed for this reasons.  I do not feel good about it.  What I can say to her family is I am sorry for what happened.  I did not mean to kill her.
	I did not have a grudge against her, but it was because of the political situation at that time.  If I could, if it was possible, I would pray that they indeed rise from the dead.

MR SIPHO: What precise role did you yourself play in the killing of the deceased?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: When we left Mr Msolo's home, we hit at nearby cottages.  When the deceased emerged from the house, we chased her when she turned into Jabula Road and we caught up with her, and we started stabbing her.

MR SIPHO: Okay.   In the trial where you appeared as an accused, you said that you did not have any knowledge that the township was predominantly occupied by members of the ANC.
	And you also denied that you were a member of the ANC.  Do you agree that you have made those denials in the court?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes.

MR SIPHO: I do not know whether it is necessary Mr Chairman, but I am referring to the record at page 276.  Can you tell us why you denied knowledge of the fact that the township was predominantly ANC?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, I can explain.  When we were in court, it was during the time when there was differing of political opinions between different organisations, I had a belief that the Court was prejudiced against the ANC.
	Therefore I found it difficult to admit that the area that I came from, was an ANC stronghold and that I was also an ANC member.  That would maybe have led to the death of my family if they knew that my family were ANC members.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  Will that also be the reason why you denied having participated in the killing itself, as well?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes.

MR SIPHO: And in the trial, at page 266 of the record, the Judge said that according to your evidence, you could neither agree nor disagree that the compound is predominantly occupied by Inkatha supporters.
	Is that what you said in the court, that you couldn't agree or disagree with the fact that the compound was predominantly occupied by Inkatha supporters?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, that is what I said.

MR SIPHO: Okay, and did you give that evidence basically for the reasons that you set out earlier as well?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes.

MR SIPHO: Is there anything else that you want to add to the evidence that you have given thus far?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: What I would like to emphasise is I wish to pass my regrets to the family of the deceased.  I would, I am asking for their forgiveness, that is what I would like to say.

MR SIPHO: Okay.  At the stage when this killing took place, were you still at school?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, I was still at school.

MR SIPHO: Was your education then interrupted during the period that you were in jail?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, it was interrupted.

MR SIPHO: Have you now resumed your education?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, I have resumed my education.

MR SIPHO: What are you studying at the moment?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: I am an apprentice.

CHAIRPERSON: What are you studying towards, an apprentice in which trade?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: An apprentice in electricity.

MR SIPHO: When were you released from jail?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: In August of this year.

MR SIPHO: That is the evidence that I wish to lead of this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIPHO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sipho.  Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MS THABETE: ;   Yes Mr Chairman.  Mr Mhlambo, can you tell us what your relationship was with Spelo?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: You mean Spelo Khanyile?

MS THABETE: Yes.

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: I say uncle to his father because I am born by, my mother is a Khanyile.

MS THABETE: Were you in good terms with Spelo?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, there was a relationship.

MS THABETE: What was the relationship between Spelo and the victim, Thembi  Mthembu?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: None that I know of.

MS THABETE: So the reference in the court record on page 245 and 251 that they were lovers, is not true?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Well, I wouldn't know that.  What I think is that people who can really answer that, are the people who were most of the time with them.  Although he was the relative to me, I was never most of the time with him.
	It is his friends who can actually talk about that, and they are present at the moment.

MS THABETE: Okay.  Coming to the issue of IFP area being a no-go zone for ANC members, can you explain for the Committee members what was wrong with an ANC person going to an IFP area?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: What would happen, IFP members if they were at their stronghold where we couldn't enter it, would meet and plan to attack the township.  Mostly at night when we are sleeping, we would actually wake up in the morning and then refer to the gunshots and then we will be told that so and so was shot or maybe a particular family was killed.  That is the reason there was no good relationship between the two organisations.
	We knew that whoever is going there, will die or will be killed.  They were also not regularly coming to our place.

MS THABETE: I am not sure, I don't think you have understood my question, but maybe to make it a bit clearer, let's take for example if an ANC member right, had a relative or a friend in an IFP area, what would be wrong with that person going to visit the other person in the IFP area?  In your opinion as an ANC person?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, there wouldn't be a problem according to them, but if we refer back to that particular time, when you were an ANC member and going to an IFP stronghold, you would be killed.  But now there is no problem, you can actually visit anyone in an IFP area, and that person may actually also visit you as a relative, as it is happening right now.

MS THABETE: So it would be correct for me to say it didn't matter what the reason was for an ANC member or supporter to go to an IFP area, it wouldn't matter what the reason was.
	If you saw an ANC member going to an IFP area, you would kill that person?  Would it be correct for me to say that?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: The way the things were at that particular point in time, you are telling the truth.

MS THABETE: So, can you briefly tell us again what was the reason for you to kill Thembi Mthembu specifically?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: What happened there, there was some youth that were killed, shot by the ZP's and by IFP members, like Fiso Manyangi and Msai Fani Nqobo and a certain boy of Mkhize.
	Truly speaking, we wouldn't actually understand who would follow after their death.  If a person is in such a fright, and you realise that if you see people in the situation, or you see such people, you should do something about that, because you might be next to be killed.

MS THABETE: When you took the victim to Mr Msolo's house, did you question her as to what she was doing in the IFP area?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, are you saying was she questioned at Mr Msolo's house?

MS THABETE: Yes?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: Yes, she was asked.

MS THABETE: And what did she say?

ALFRED MANDLA MHLAMBO: She said she went there because of her job that she was doing, that she would actually send names of the people who are activists, ANC activists.  Therefore a person would actually be frightened and thinking and wondering whose names are there.

MS THABETE: I want your response on this statement I am just going to say now.  Isn't it strange though that the victim was assaulted on the way to Mr Msolo's house and then when you questioned her, she would just give such information what she was doing in the IFP area, was to sell you out, so to say?  Isn't that strange especially when her life was in danger, and her life was threatened?