Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, Mr Botha and I made several excursions to Dr Webster's residence, without any success, at various times of the day and night.  Every time we were operationally ready, we had the false number plates, we had balaclavas, which I obtained for us, until the day of the 1st of May, which was the day upon which Dr Webster was killed.  I once again picked up Mr Botha at his apartment which wasn't far away.  We were operationally prepared.
	We drove to Dr Webster's residence as we had upon previous occasions.  We drove around the block two to three times because we would have to drive down three street blocks in order to get back to his residence.  Every time we drove past.  We stopped at the top point with the nose of the car pointing in the direction of the one-way street.  There was a cafe on the corner.  I would do the shooting and Mr Botha drove the vehicle.  Both of us had balaclavas on our laps and the firearm was tucked in next to my leg in the front of the vehicle.  We decided to wait a while.  
	We waited approximately 45 minutes, perhaps even 50 minutes, then Dr Webster's bakkie came past us from the back and stopped in front of the house, at the residence in Eleanor street.  The car faced in the same direction that our car faced down the one-way street.  I focused on him completely, cocked the weapon, I took it off the safety, I put the balaclava on my head and Mr Botha did the same.  He moved forward and when Mr Webster disembarked from the vehicle and came walking past the back of the bakkie, he then opened the bakkie, we moved towards him very slowly.  We were approximately two metres away from him.  He was standing with his back towards me.  I called him by his name.  I said:  "Webster".  He then turned around, as he did so I stuck the shotgun out the window and shot him at point blank range.  I fired one shot, Dr Webster collapsed on the ground, we drove away somewhat faster, but we didn't want it to look as if it was a car chasing away.  
	We removed our balaclavas.  I looked back and saw that there was a vehicle coming after us.  I "respun" the weapon.  I had another weapon in the car as a back-up.  I thought that it might be somebody who would be wanting to make a citizen's arrest.  I would have shot the occupant if he had continued to pursue us, but the car stopped.  We drove back to the West Rand.  I dropped Calla Botha off and went to my house.  
	I made a report to Brenda.  Her evidence in this regard during the trial was the truth, the fact that she knew about it, that she had watched the car or the house with me.  I did not make the report to everybody as I had said, but I did report to her and while I am telling the truth and it is the time in my life to tell the truth, I must just say that I made this admission to Jacques Pauw, the Journalist.  I tried to discredit her during cross-examination.  I wanted to make it look as if he was after sensationalist stories and that is why he gave this evidence against me in the Supreme Court, the fact that I made the submission to him outside a restaurant in Melville is completely the truth.  I had been using crack, I had been drinking and once I started sobering up, I realised that I had made quite a serious blunder and he could have made it much worse if he wanted to during his evidence, so with his journalistic integrity, even though we do not sit by the same fire, his evidence in this regard was completely correct and I would just like to admit this because it is something that has been bothering me.

MR COETZEE: Mr Barnard, after you shot Dr Webster and you drove off and dropped Mr Botha off, what was the next step which was taken, or which occurred after the incident?

FERDINAND BARNARD: The balaclavas and the gloves and the shotgun that I had, as well as the number plates which were on the vehicle when the murder was committed, I got rid of all of these items.

MR COETZEE: Did you report this to any institution?

FERDINAND BARNARD: When I returned I listened to every news report or media report that I could obtain.  It came to me as a shock because I had not realised what the nature and scope would be of that which had taken place.  I knew that there would be a reaction because I had shot people on numerous previous occasions, but there was never such a reaction.   Although this was an assassination, it bothered me and I began to contact Lafras Luitingh.

MR COETZEE: You said that you had shot people previously, is that with regard to the cases for which you were sentenced to imprisonment?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes, and also as part of my service in the South African Police.

MR COETZEE: But you had not shot anybody previously for the CCB?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No.

MR COETZEE: Did you indeed make contact with Lafras Luitingh?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson, for two to three days I struggled to get hold of him.  I don't know exactly how long it was, but he eventually came back to me and we set up a meeting at the Hyperama in Florida, where we had had previous meetings.

MR COETZEE: What was your contact method?

FERDINAND BARNARD: It was a pager.

MR COETZEE: And when you saw him at the Hyperama, was he alone?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes, he was alone, but I wasn't alone.  I took Calla Botha with me.  Mr Botha was in the vehicle while I got out to go and meet Luitingh.  Lafras Luitingh and I didn't really get along very well and I cannot say that I didn't trust him, but there was something about him that bothered me, I wanted someone to be there, that is why Botha came along, because it had been told to me previously that one could do a job and then simply be taken out just like that.

MR COETZEE: Do you know if he saw Mr Botha there or not?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I don't know.  I doubt it.  He never told me subsequently that he had seen Mr Botha there.

MR COETZEE: What took place between you and Lafras Luitingh at the Hyperama?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I made my report to him and I said:  "Listen, you've got to do some damage control here.  You've said that you've been able to squash things."  He congratulated me and he asked me to tell him briefly what had happened.  He wanted to know what I did with the vehicle and the firearm.  I told him that I had destroyed the items.  I didn't tell him what vehicle I had used, I didn't tell him what exactly I had done with the firearm.  He wasn't really interested in any further details.  He then went to the boot of his car where he removed a brown A4 envelope and handed it over to me.  He said it was a production bonus and also that Joe was very happy.  I drove away from there with Mr Botha.  We stopped at a certain point.  I opened the envelope and inside there was R15 000 in cash.  I gave R5 000 to Calla Botha, R5 000 of that money.

MR COETZEE: Very well, Mr Barnard, this is now common knowledge, that afterwards allegations were made concerning the death of Dr Webster and it was from one side to the other side, there were speculations in the media from various involvements of various people.  What did you do?  Did you then continue as normal with your CCB activities?  What was the damage control, if there was such a thing.