Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-19

MR POTGIETER: We are going to conclude this session with the testimony of the last three witnesses.  Reverend Xundu.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I want to request Mr Chairman that we include a person who beyond his means was not able to be present when he was balled earlier and that is Ntsikelelo Dugmore Flepu who is now present.  Jameson Phuphani, Thozama Samson Mejane and Ntsikelelo Mxoli.

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: (sworn states)

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: (sworn states)

THOZAMA SAMSON MEJANE: (sworn states)

NTSIKELELO MXOLI: (sworn states)

MR POTGIETER: Thank you Reverend Xundu.  Can I just at this stage ask to be excused unfortunately from further proceedings.  The time has caught up with us unfortunately.  Dr Ramashala and myself have to be back in Cape Town by tomorrow and in order to be able to do that we need to leave unfortunately.  As usual it was wonderful to be here.  Quite a pleasure to share the panel with you and to have acted up to this stage as the Chairperson of the proceedings.  I think you very much for that.  It's always a very, very special experience to be in this region.  Thank you for that.

REV XUNDU: Chairperson I would like to respond by thanking you for agreeing to Chair this two day hearing.  I
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particularly requested you to do so because of the difficulty I feel whenever I have to deal with the Bisho Massacre event and how closely I was associated with the developments which were trying to avoid it.  I wish to thank you Chairperson for the very dignified and able manner in which you have Chaired over these two days.  You brought into our hearings your special gifts in terms of patience and tolerance, and we are indeed indebted to you for the smooth way in which these last two days, which were indeed very difficult have been so ably handled.  We record our deep sense of gratitude and appreciation.
 We would like also to thank Dr Ramashala and in absentia Hlengiwe Mkhizi also for their participation and for their contribution to this hearing.  
 Unfortunately if you are going to catch a flight you will have to leave now and we have to take leave of you, not because  - we would have loved to have ended this thing properly with you in the Chair.  Thank you very much,
CHAIRMAN AND DR RAMASHALA LEAVE THE HEARING

REV XUNDU: Okay, over to Ntsiki Sandi.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I will start with Mr Ntsikelelo Dugmore Flepu.  Mr Flepu where were you shot on that day?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I was shot on my back and the bullet penetrated and came through the shoulder.

MR SANDI: How old were you at the time you were shot in 1992?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I was born in 1975, I don't remember how old I was in 1992.

MR SANDI: Were you at school or what were you doing at the time?
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NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I was at school.

MR SANDI: Are you still at school at the present moment?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes I am still at school.

MR SANDI: Were you disturbed in your studies due to this?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes I was disturbed Sir.

MR SANDI: Can you please explain.

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I have a difficulty because my health is disturbing me in my studies.  I spent some time in hospital and I don't have strength.

MR SANDI: Did you get any treatment?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: No.

MR SANDI: Didn't you go to hospital or a doctor?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I was at Frere Hospital on the day I was shot and that was the last time.

MR SANDI: What is your request to this Commission today?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I want the Commission to help me in my medication and my treatment.

MR SANDI: You mean you don't get any treatment and you need treatment?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes I don't get any treatment Sir.

MR SANDI: Are there any hospitals or clinic in your area?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: There is a clinic Sir.

MR SANDI: Can you please explain to us about the treatment you are requiring?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: When I am not feeling well I usually go to the clinic and they give me a rubbing stuff, but it doesn't help me.  They don't give me any medicines there.

MR SANDI: Is that all you want to say Mr Flepu?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes Sir I have a difficulty, I can't even afford to go to a hospital because there is a lot of money required there and my parents do not have this money.
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MR SANDI: Who are you staying with at home?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: I stay with my mother and my father.

MR SANDI: What are they doing?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: My father is looking for a job, my mother is a housewife.

MR SANDI: Is that all you want to say Mr Flepu?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes Sir that's all.

MR SANDI: Did you go to any attorneys, Mr Smith?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: Yes I did Sir.

MR SANDI: What was the outcome of this?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: They are still busy with my case, that's what they told me.

MR SANDI: There is no result or outcome for this case?

NTSIKELELO DUGMORE FLEPU: No not yet.

MR SANDI: Thank you.  I will hand over to the Chairperson.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Flepu.
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MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am sorry that you have had to wait such a long time.  I believe that you are here today to tell us about how you were at the Bisho stadium, in fact you were approaching the stadium when you were shot in your left upper arm.  The statement states that the bullet went in the front and went out the back, is that correct?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: Yes that's correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: I'd like you to tell us how it has affected your arm, what is the situation with your arm now?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: My arm is not working normally.

JUNE CRICHTON: Do you get any kind of treatment for your arm?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: No I don't get treatment except the one I got in Frere Hospital, that was the last time I got treatment.  When I have pain I buy Panados or Disprins and I use them all the time.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is your arm badly enough injured for you not to be able to work anymore?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: My arm is very painful and I cannot use it properly and it's affecting me because I cannot work because of it.

JUNE CRICHTON: After the incident did you approach any attorney?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: No I didn't approach any attorneys.

JUNE CRICHTON: I believe you have five children is that correct?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: Yes I have five children.

JUNE CRICHTON: And you have asked in your statement that the TRC would recommend that there be assistance given to you
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for the education of these children?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: Yes, I requested the TRC to try and assist me with my children and to assist me to get a pension because my wife is supporting me, I cannot work and she is selling to support the family.

JUNE CRICHTON: We have noted that.  Now is there anything else that you wish to tell the Commission about that event, or any statement you wish to make?

MTHUTHUZELI JAMESON PHUPHANI: I would like the Commission to help me to my request I have already put forward if that is possible because there is no one supporting me, it's only my wife's business that is supporting us.

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Phuphani I thank you and I hand you back to the Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you and we will take the next one.
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THOZAMA SAMSON MEJANE

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I would like to lead and help Mr Mejane in his statement.  Mr Mejane we will now ask you questions, in which clan are you?

THOZAMA SAMSON MEJANE: I am from the Stathu(?) clan Sir.