Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-17

CHAIRPERSON: We have heard in the morning when Mrs Mcetywa rendered her testimony with regard to what happened in your area at this given time.  We are sorry and sad that when you did not even intend to do any harm, but only supporting what happened, and subsequent to that you found yourself in this ordeal.  It is sad that that happened to you, and especially it shows that our very own people, I mean police, did take part, and they are our hope.  Now that they fight against us it's a wonder.  However, we thank you because you were heroes in one way or the other, and you stood very firm on what you believed so that everyone could benefit in the country.  Mr Dlamini has already made mention of the fact that - as for your recommendations will be compiled, and a report will be forwarded to the State President, and he will see how you should be helped.  What I would like to know is that as you are still attending, going to see the doctor at the hospital, what happens?

WITNESS:   No, I do wish to go to the hospital so they may extract the iron inside that was inserted in me.  And it's been time since I have seen the doctor.

CHAIRPERSON: But it is imperative that you see the doctor, are you aware?

WITNESS:   Yes.  I don't have money.  Money is the centre of my problem.

CHAIRPERSON: Don't you have hospitals around?

WITNESS:   Yes, there are hospitals, but I will prefer to go to the hospital that I first went to.  In that way they have the history of my injuries and stuff.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe it will be necessary for you to say everything to the counsellors, our counsellors, so they may advise you better, because it is dangerous for you not to see any doctor or receive any medical attention at this stage.  You have to receive medical attention in whatever way.  On top of that I would like to thank you for coming to the commission and disclose of your story.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: Our next witness who will be afforded opportunity to relate his story will be Andreas Mphani Sithole.  We greet you, Mr Sithole.  You came here to relate to us about your story of how your house was burnt.  Before you start relating your testimony to us we would like you to stand up and raise your right hand.

ANDREAS MPHANI SITHOLE: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Mr Dlamini to lead you in giving your testimony.

MR DLAMINI: I greet you, Mr Sithole.  Mr Sithole, according to our records you are staying in Haladu in Nquthu.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's where I was staying, but I am no longer staying there.

MR DLAMINI: Where are you staying now?

WITNESS:   I am now staying at eMadwaleni.

MR DLAMINI: I would like to rectify that area.  Do you have a house at Madaleni or you're renting a place?

WITNESS:   No, I am still renting.

MR DLAMINI: Where is eMadwaleni?  Is it at Nquthu?

WITNESS:   No, it's at Nqeni, next to Mdlalose's area.

MR DLAMINI: Another thing, Mr Sithole, you didn't give us information about your family background.  Do you still have your wife?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is still alive.  I have two wives.

MR DLAMINI: Are they around today?

WITNESS:   No, they aren't here, they are at home.

MR DLAMINI: How many children?

WITNESS:   I have four children.

MR DLAMINI: How old are they?  Are they still young?

WITNESS:   Yes, all four of them are still minors.  In fact my kids -they are actually my grandchildren.  Only one is mine.  I have three children, but they are already on their own dependent.

MR DLAMINI: Are they working?

WITNESS:   One is working, the other one is not working.

MR DLAMINI: And the third one?

WITNESS:   The third one is just getting babies at home.  She is not working.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Sithole, you are here because you want to relate to us as to how your house was burnt.  This incident occurred in 1994.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR DLAMINI: Would you please tell us what happened before?

WITNESS:  I don't know what happened, but there was a conflict between ANC and Inkatha, and then I ran away.

MR DLAMINI: When you ran away is there anything that happened to cause this running away?  Were you attacked first before you ran away, or you heard of a meeting for another organisation?  Were there other people attacking other people?  What happened?

WITNESS:   I can't tell because I ran away.  The situation was so bad that I just ran away.

MR DLAMINI: What happened, what caused this running away?

WITNESS:  We saw a group of people coming and they were shooting at each other, and then we ran away.

MR DLAMINI: Were these people ANC people?

WITNESS:   I think so, but I am not sure.

MR DLAMINI: Were they coming to your area, and your area is predominantly IFP area?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

MR DLAMINI: The conflict between ANC and IFP in your area is caused by what?

WITNESS:   No, I can't tell that.  I don't k now what actually causes this conflict.

MR DLAMINI: I am asking this because we've discovered that in 1994 at Haladu the situation was terrible bad.  People lost their stock, and some people lost their lives.  That's why I wanted you here today to tell us what happened, or how can we solve these problems.

WITNESS:   I don't know.  I don't know how we can solve this and I don't know what causes this.

MR DLAMINI: When you ran away with your children and your wife were there people who got injured in your family?

WITNESS:   No, no one.  Everyone was safe, because my family ran away first and I followed afterwards, not knowing where they ran to.

MR DLAMINI: Your stocks?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't lose any of my stock.  I took it with me.  Only my houses were burnt, but my stock was safe.

MR DLAMINI: Did you report this matter to the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.

MR DLAMINI: Which police station did you report this matter?

WITNESS:   I went to Espicon, next to Mondlo, and then I went to Nquthu, because the police from Espicon Police Station couldn't help me.  Then the police from Nquthu were the ones who helped me to gather whatever was remaining behind.

MR DLAMINI: Did they give you your case number?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't.

MR DLAMINI: I am asking this because our investigators went to Mondlo Police Station to gather the records as to what actions they've taken after this incident, and they found that in their records there was no evidence as to whether you did come to them and report the matter.

WITNESS:   No, they didn't give me any case number.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Sithole, I would like to know if you are here because you want the Commission to ask something on your behalf with regard to what you've lost.

WITNESS:   Yes.  I would like the Commission to help me with regard to the damages I've suffered.

MR DLAMINI: You mean your houses which were burnt?

WITNESS:   Yes, I would like the Commission to please rebuild those houses for me.

MR DLAMINI: Did you manage to remove the goods inside your house?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't, because we were running away.  We just ran.

MR DLAMINI: Mr Sithole, this is very sad.  According to our records you are 68 years, and someone who is as old as you to run away and not knowing what caused the violence, and I would like to express our sympathy to you, and I trust that you will be helped in somehow.  As we have said to others that we are going to take all these statements and we are going to make recommendations to the President, and what I would like to tell you is that it will take time because everyone will be given a chance to come forward and ask for whatever he or she wants to ask.  So it won't be something that will occur today or tomorrow, it will take time, like maybe next year.  Don't stand up because the Chairlady will have a word with you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sithole, I am not quite sure whether I didn't hear this one correct.  Are you receiving any pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: From these two wives of yours is there any of them who is getting pension?