Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-03

MS MKHIZE: You say, when they were picked up, they were never taken before the magistrate.  Now according to your knowledge, what happened?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: I only heard from rumours that the government gave them guns and they saw him wearing a police uniform, but I have never seen him with my own eyes.
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MS MKHIZE: You earlier on explained that there was a time that when you were moving around the streets people would point fingers at you but the brave ones would come to you and tell you that there is a possibility of your son being killed.  Did you have a chance to ask your son about the reasons why the community was now pointing fingers at you?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: I asked him, I said, "Lucky, you were involved in the struggle. Now what does the policeman seek after you? And I didn't know that he was involved with the policemen, I've never seen him with any policemen.  He said, "Mum they might help us in some way because they have never taken us to the cells".  I said to him, "Lucky, the reason that they haven't taken you to the cells allows you to cooperate with them?"  He said, "Mum they also gave us guns". I said to him, "Lucky, why?"  But he couldn't give me an answer.

MS MKHIZE: You said the brave ones came to you to warn you.  Now when you investigated this matter, why were they given guns?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: I don't know why. I can't even tell you what they were supposed to do with these guns.

MS MKHIZE: In your statement you said, nobody from the Government came to tell you that your son was dead. Can you please tell us, how did Priscilla get the news that your son was dead?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: The police never came to me to tell me about the death of my son, my sister, my son died next to
Mkalipani Secondary School where my sister stays, she stays next to Mkalipani and that's how she got to know that my son was dead.

MS MKHIZE: We'll have to look at your sister's statement because we know that she has given us one at the TRC who NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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will take a look at her statement.  There is something that I want to ask you.  You said you were brave enough to count how many wounds he had and you also said he was burned. Is there anything else that you noticed that might have led to his death? You said he had eighteen holes and he was burned.

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: That was the only thing I could see.

MS MKHIZE: I want to thank you, I will now take you back to the chairperson and he will give others a chance to ask you questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Mkhize. Ms Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama I would just like to ask you a few questions to clear up some of the things you said in your statement.  You said that after your son was released from jail, he was no longer involved with the comrades.  You also said that he was given guns by the police.  And then you also said that you say him moving around with police vans.  Can you tell us a little more about that please?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: The police would come to my home very late in the evening and they would harass us and at the end I didn't know.  For two weeks I couldn't see my son.  On the third week when I saw him, it was on a Thursday and on  Friday I was told that he passed away.

YASMINE SOOKA: Once they had taken him you said that you didn't see him for a week, but then you heard rumours that people had seen him moving around in police vans.

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: That's correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: What were people saying?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: As I walked along the streets, people would say, "Her son is involved with the police", and you know people would be pointing fingers at me and I would check as to whom they were pointing at only to find that they were NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
 
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pointing at me.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you ever ask your son after he came out whether in fact he was working with the police?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: I asked him on Wednesday on the day he arrived and I said to him, "I heard rumours that you are involved with police".  He said, "Yes mother, the police ended up arresting me, they took me to the cells and they assaulted me and after assaulting us we spent a week in jail and at the end of that the police gave us uniforms and they gave us guns".  And I said, "Why did you take those?", and he said "Mother, I thought that they would leave me alone."  You know, the Government could have arrested him, I think my son would still be alive today.

YASMINE SOOKA: You talk about seeing him in the company of another person.  Do you want to tell us a little bit about that as well please?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: I would only see this car. He used to drive in a car driven by Speedy, a policeman, it was a Mazda.  That is the car I saw parking at my grandmother's house and I asked, "What does this car want here, and he said, "No it's not me who put this car here".  I said, "If you told me it's a boy who put this car here, can you please call him to take it away?"  It's a big house and I got into the house, I don't know what time did the car leave because it was just next door to the grandmother's house, it wasn't parked in front of my house.

YASMINE SOOKA: Who was arrested by the police, was he alone or were there other people with him?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: He was together with others.

YASMINE SOOKA: Were they also given guns and uniforms by the police?
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JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: Yes they were also given guns and uniforms.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you have any names of these friends who were with him.

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: Yes I have their names but it is not right to reveal them here.

YASMINE SOOKA: You will however give the information to us later on?

JAMEYA GERTRUDE MNISI: Yes I will.  The other one passed away, he was killed, only one is still surviving.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You've been very helpful in telling your story.  I think you have reminded the community again and reminded us that one of the saddest things about the whole struggle were the divisions between family and family and neighbour an neighbour and son and mother and people taking different sides.  So it sounds to me as though what you're saying to us is that your son was one of the comrades, was arrested, assaulted and in the hope of being freed and having the assault being stopped, that he offered to assist and joined different sides and then people act against that.  Nothing of this is right, no one has the right to go and kill people and have 18 wounds and to burn a person. But the whole struggle led to enormous divisions. I hope that if those divisions are still there, if the community is still divided, that after ten years, we will learn to come to terms with these, we don't understand everything, we cannot explain everything, but perhaps through this Commission, through the telling of your story and so many other stories we've heard, that there will come healing not only for yourself, for your sister, but also for the community, so that people can live in peace.
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That is my hope for you and for your community and I want to thank you very much indeed for coming and telling us your story.  We have heard what you've said, we have noted what you have asked for and we will do our best to do what you have asked. Thank you very much indeed.