Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

MR DLAMINI: blood as if a cow has been slaughtered. You know, the floorwas full of blood ... (inaudible) ... a lot of soap or whatever they use toscrub the blood out. The whole office was simply full of my blood. I didn'tprovoke this man in any way, I just kept my peace. I just kept quiet. I saidnot a single word, but he just found it ... (inaudible) ... or whatever thatpeople who keep quiet they teach them in that type of way. That's how they teachthem. They will teach you how to talk here in ... (inaudible) ... now afterall that, when the chief officer arrived, really I was - you know, I cried likea little boy, like a child, asking for help when I was reeling round on theground, unable to stand up because of my knee. And I stood up and tried to supportmyself. I did at long last manage to steady my legs and to stand. And then thechief most fortunately arrived, and was shocked and said, "What is happening?"He asked him. He never answered. And then he asked me, and I pointed at home,I didn't talk. And I still remember what that man said. I respect him for thatphrase. He said, "Man, you are not a Magistrate," and I turned and I said tothe man, to the office, "Please let me go to my wife, because my children arenot here, and I want to show them that what you are doing to me." He said, "Thepeople of Komdraai have asked me to go and teach there, because the School Boardof Thaba Nchu have sacked me, and my children - one is at Fort Hare, theother one is at Jordan High. I have no money to pay for the fees. Now, pleasego to Komdraai so that they can pay you something. Now I want to go and showhim that you say - which this policeman of yours what he have done to me. That'swhat you do when people come  "and look for work." And he said no. And then at the same timemy face was swelling up, you know. It was terrible.

MR DLAMINI: Those who saw me really ran away at the hospital. Then I wasbleeding from my noose, I mean through my nose, through my ears, all over. Mywhole face was bruised and bleeding, and I was not steady on my legs, I didn'tknow - I looked terrible. Then he simply ordered a police van to take me tothe hospital. I was taken to the hospital, rushed there, because they were toofrightened. I was bleeding. The bleeding had to stop. They couldn't do it, andI was taken there. When I got to the hospital many people thought I was deadbecause I was just punch drunk. I just didn't do anything. And you know whathappened to me at the hospital? Nothing. I arrived there in the morning, andwas fetched by the police at sundown. Not a single nurse saw me, not a singledoctor attended to me, and I was taken back to the police station. At the policestation just - it was just - the whole thing was just a mess. I was told togo home. Nobody had time for me there. "Just go home." I went to Selosesha.You know about Selosesha at that time, a tsotsi infested place, limping, punchdrunk, hardly knowing what I am doing. And so far really I don't know if youhave made any sense with my scattered remarks. I just don't know how far I'vegone.

MR DLAMINI: You have made a lot of sense, Babu Molatseli. I am now interestedin the ... (intervention)

WITNESS: Let me just make a correction there. My name isMolatseli, M-o-l-a-t-s-e-l-i.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you for that, Babu Molatseli.

WITNESS: I beg  your pardon, yes.

MR DLAMINI: Babu Molatseli, the person who did this to you, is it the sameAbraham Ohane who is reflected in your

MR DLAMINI: statement? Can I confirm?

WITNESS: Yes, that's the same person.

MR DLAMINI: Secondly, which court did the case go through?

WITNESS: We wentto Thaba Nchu Magistrate's Court at Selosesha.

MR DLAMINI: At the time when the police were interrogating you you deniedbelonging to any political party. It wasn't safe at that time. Can I confirmare you a member of any political party now?

WITNESS: I will never have to do withanything with that.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you. Can I also ... (intervention)

WITNESS: I you mentionpolitics to me I have nothing to do with you. Just go away.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you very much, Dada. Can I also confirm, one of yourrequests to the Commission is to be helped with the hearing aids. The Commissionhas noted that. The Chairman will refer to it when he summarises. Secondly,you also made a request that you would wish to meet the perpetrator so thathe can explain to you why he did what he did to you, and that has also beennoted. The Chairman will refer to it when he summarises. Thank you very muchMr Molatseli for sharing with us. I know it's a painful and humiliating experience,but the manner you have shared with us we have all learned from it, and we area lot wiser than we were before it. Thank you. Can I now hand over to the Chairman.

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much for coming in today andtelling us your story. It was a very coherent story,  contrary to what you believe. They were not scattered remarksat all, it was a very coherent story, and a very sad one. And it's a story whichtells us a lot about the

MR LYSTER: previous government in this country. You had in your housea very famous book by Booker T Washington ... (intervention)

WITNESS: I am listeningto you, Sir.

MR LYSTER: ... "Up from Slavery," and you also had a picture of SteveBiko's hands in handcuffs, and these two items created such fear and insecurityin the police that they detained you, they subjected you to assaults, and theymade you report daily to the police station for a period of months, and theyaccused you of propagating politics in your school. And that's very sad, andas I've said before hopefully we now have a police force where that sort ofthing, that sort of interference with private citizens, can never ever happenagain, and we have to work hard at protecting the system which we now have inplace.

MR LYSTER: As my colleagues have mentioned to you we will try and assistyou insofar as the impairment of your hearing is concerned. We have, since wehave been in Bloemfontein, entered into an arrangement with the Ministry ofHealth in Bloemfontein, and they have undertaken to assist people who requireurgent treatment arising out of injuries and assaults that they received arisingout of incidents which took place under the scope of the Commission, so we canrefer you to somebody in the Ministry of Health who may be able to assist you.

MR LYSTER: But we thank you very much for coming here and sharing yourstory with us, and we wish you and your wife well.

WITNESS: I want to thank you,Sir.

MR LYSTER: Thank you both for coming in today. Pleasewill you confirm that you can hear me through the earphones. Can you hear myvoice? And are you both going to be giving evidence, or will just one of yoube talking today? Both of you will be giving evidence, and you will be givingevidence together about an incident which took place in June 1990 in Botshabelotownship, and it relates to an assault upon you both by the police. And youwill be giving evidence together because you - this thing happened at the sametime. Before we proceed could you stand and take the oath please.

SHADRACK RATABA AND JONAS MOLEHE: (Sworn, State)

MR LYSTER: I am going to ask one of my colleagues, Dr Magwaza,in the leading of your evidence. Have you decided which one of you will be talkingfirst? You are Mr Rataba?

WITNESS: I am Mr Molehe.

MR LYSTER: Mr Molehe. Okay, thank you very much. Dr Magwaza.

DR MAGWAZA: You are still very young. I can't help feelingthat at a very tender age you were subject to gross abuse, and such violationwill leave scars, or has left scars that will take a long time to heal. We arehere today to listen to your story, to acknowledge your pain, and to give yousupport. You can begin to tell us your story. Probably, Jonas, you can beginby telling us more about yourself.

WITNESS: I am Jonas Molehe. I am the son Mr Molehe,who was a teacher in Botshabelo. At this moment he is on pension.