Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LYSTER: You have given us in your evidence a very clear description of what conditions were like in Mpumalanga township in those terrible days in the late 80s ... (incomplete - end of Side A, Tape 1)

MR LYSTER: MR MKHIZE

MR LYSTER: Good morning, Mr Mkhize.  How are you today?  We thank you for having had the courage to come and share your story with us, the courage to come and tell this Commission, as well as the community.  Maybe many people will be helped by your revelations.  Even before we go any further I would just like you to give me your background, your family background, whether you still have parents, sisters or brothers?  Can you hear me?

WITNESS:   I have a mother.  My father passed away in 1985.  I do have sisters and brothers.  My brother died in 1988.  I have a sister only.  We were only three.  My brother died in 1988.

MR LYSTER: Is your mother working?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is working.  She is a domestic worker.

MR LYSTER: Are you married or are you still staying at your place?

WITNESS:   I am having a temporary job at Tastic.  I am staying at Imbali in a shack.  I am not staying at home.

MR LYSTER: Are you married?

WITNESS:   No, I am not married.  I don't have any children.

MR LYSTER: We appreciate knowing your background.  Just tell us briefly about what happened, or the events that preceded your harassment in Trust Feed.  Just tell us what were the circumstances, what was happening, even before we get into the gist of your story.

WITNESS:   I would like to ask a question.  As to what was happening at Trust Feed?

MR LYSTER: Yes, at Trust Feed.

WITNESS:   I was not at Trust Feed most of the time.  At the beginning of 1988 I was not there.  I only went back after the 22nd.

MR LYSTER: Where were you staying before that?

WITNESS:   I was staying at Sweetwater. Now, can you tell us what happened on the 22nd of July when your brother was stabbed?  Just tell us what happened.  Or were you not there, you just heard people telling you as to what happened?   ---   On the 23rd I received a message early in the morning, and at that time I went home to try and investigate.  I was told that my brother had been injured.  After a while I went home.  When I got there I couldn't see anything.  Then I went back home.  Police - I don't know what the police said because I was a little bit disturbed.  Then I stayed.

MR LYSTER: Let's go back.  Before the police came what had happened?  What message did you get?

WITNESS:   I heard people who told me that they were fighting for a candle.

MR LYSTER: What had happened to the candle?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  I don't know what had happened to the candle.  I just couldn't get the story right.

MR LYSTER: Where were your other brothers as well as your mother at that time?

WITNESS:   My mother had moved from that place.  It was quite a while.  I think it was 1977 when she moved.  She was staying at Sweetwater.

MR LYSTER: Were you staying with your mother at Sweetwater?

WITNESS:   No, I was staying with my aunt.

MR LYSTER: What about your brothers?  Who was staying at Sweetwater?  Who was staying at Trust Feed?

WITNESS:   My aunt was staying at Trust Feed.

MR LYSTER: You told us that - just to clarify this one.  In your statement you said the person who stabbed your brother was Fundakwezakhe Ngubane.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

MR LYSTER: Was he arrested?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was arrested.

MR LYSTER: Tell us about the police who came to you.

WITNESS:   Must I explain when they came to my place or when I went to look for my brother, the police that I met?  I met the police just next to this boy's place.

MR LYSTER: Do you still remember the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.

MR LYSTER: What were their names?

WITNESS:   It was Isaac Mhlongo, Sidney Mthethwa.

MR LYSTER: And then what happened?

WITNESS:   They talked to me, but I really didn't pay much attention because I was very disturbed.

MR LYSTER: What did they say to you?

WITNESS:   I didn't hear what they said to me because I was disturbed.

MR LYSTER: On the 20th of August what happened?  You said the police came to you.

WITNESS:   Police came to me where I was.  It was round about 10 o'clock in the morning.  I was sleeping.  They were fencing my place.  The policemen came with Mfanafikile Mbongwe.  He is my brother-in-law.  They said they wanted to see Mduduzi Xamani.  They said they wanted to see the elderly people who were at home.

MR LYSTER: Do you still remember them?

WITNESS:   It was Christofina Mkhize and Maria Mkhize.  I am forgetting all the other ones because it's a long time since this happened.  I also asked to accompany them, because whatever they were going to talk about I believed involved me.  Because there was nobody from my home so I wanted to represent my family.

MR LYSTER: Where is Umhlawathi?

WITNESS:   It's New Hanover.

MR LYSTER: The police took you to New Hanover?

WITNESS:   Yes, they took us with.

MR LYSTER: When you got there what happened?

WITNESS:   They said there was going to be a meeting between my family and the police, that is the station commander, as well as a white man whom they said had bought our plot.  When we got there the station commander said he couldn't get hold of this white man who had bought our place.  We spoke to him.

MR LYSTER: Who is the station commander?

WITNESS:   I think it was Brian Mitchell.

MR LYSTER: Do you know the person who wanted to buy your plot?

WITNESS:   I don't know his name, but they used to call him Manugela.

MR LYSTER: When you got to Brian Mitchell?

WITNESS:   When we got to him we talked.  They asked what our problem was.

MR LYSTER: Let me take you back a little bit.  Was the killer part of the family?

WITNESS:   No, he wasn't.

MR LYSTER: Was there any problem between you as a family, or you went with regard to the death of your brother?

WITNESS:  I think there was a problem within the family, because when I grew up they used to have altercations.

MR LYSTER: Did you report the death of your brother?

WITNESS:   I believe somebody did, because whoever stabbed him was arrested thereafter.  Maybe he handed himself in.

MR LYSTER: Was there any case?

WITNESS:   I could not go, and nobody could at home, because I was busy with my own case.

MR LYSTER: So you don't know what happened, what was the outcome?

WITNESS:   No, I never got any information with regard to that.

MR LYSTER: Now, when you got to the police station to Brian Mitchell what happened?

WITNESS:   We talked to Brian Mitchell.  He was asking us as to what the problem was between us.  The previous day the family was having a verbal altercation, and I was also there.  I asked them as to why they were swearing at each other and saying they had squandered some monies.   When you say you were dying in your family, were you speaking with regard to your brother?   ---   I think that's what they were referring to, and even maybe other matters before this one.

MR LYSTER: You said when you were at the police station they said they were charging you with arson.  Just tell us more about that.

WITNESS:   As I was still saying, I asked them as to what they were referring to when they said I had squandered the money.  I thought Mr Mbongwe was part of our family, but I never got an answer to that.  The station commander said I should be taken by one policeman and he must put me into another office.  I was taken by this policeman and put into a certain room.

MR LYSTER: Just explain to us how does Mr Mbongwe feature into the whole thing?

WITNESS:   I think he was staying at that place, at my place, which was where the altercation was emanating from.  I think he was part of what was happening.

MR LYSTER: You were taken into another room and what happened?