Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

CHAIRPERSON: I see you are optimistic about the weather today, Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman I will rectify that problem immediately.

CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, before we start the hearing today I would like to make it clear that we will be expecting you to address us when the evidence has been concluded.  To address us on the merits of the application.
	Right, have we got any more victims this morning.

MR STANDER: It is true we have a further victim present here today, it is Mr Molefe.  He is sitting behind the witness stand, I will call him to the stand.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Stander, could you just inform us, does he support the application or not.

MR STANDER: He does.
	Mr Molefe.

CHAIRPERSON: S.S. Molefe?

MR STANDER: S.S. Molefe, that is him, Mr Chairman.

SERAME MOLEFE: (Duly sworn in, states).

MR STANDER: Mr Molefe, just put on the microphone before you please.  Thank you Mr Chair.  May I proceed?
EXAMINATION BY MR STANDER

MR STANDER: Mr Molefe, during 1984 of which political organisation were you a member?

MR MOLEFE: The Pan Africanist Congress of Azania.

MR STANDER: Nineteen eighty four.  At that stage where did you return from?

MR MOLEFE: Robben Island.

MR STANDER: Were you in prison there?

MR MOLEFE: Yes.

MR STANDER: What happened or where were you employed after your return from Robben Island?

MR MOLEFE: Well, after my return from Robben Island I was found a job by my uncle at Metro.  My uncle is a shop owner in Bloemfontein.  He spoke to the manager of Metro with whom he was in good terms to give me employment.  That was immediately after my return from prison.

MR STANDER: What happened after you were employed there?

MR MOLEFE: Well, in no time the manager of Metro, Neil Otto, started questioning me about my attitude, about the present chairman of the TRC, Bishop Tutu then, who was advocating for disinvestment.  So, he looked me, at me from, at the same level as Bishop Tutu, because the police use to come to where I was working, you know, to ask me questions about people that I know.
	You know, they would come with names which were fictitious or unknown to me and I would tell them I do not know about such people and when I was called, say from the floor of the wholesale, I would find Mr Otto surrounded policemen amongst them Motsamai was present.  So, obviously they had been talking to him about who I am and who I come from and what I believe in.

MR STANDER: What happened eventually?

MR MOLEFE: Well, the manager developed a negative attitude towards me, police kept on coming there and finally it was unbearable for me to continue working there.  I remember even at, at the time the present MEC for the Police, Bapi Ganare, was organising there for a trade union council to be established there and he would come to me, talk to me that I must make it possible that the council must be established there and all those factors put together made Mr Neil Otto to be negative towards me.

MR STANDER: What happened after or let me put it differently, did you leave Metro later?

MR MOLEFE: Well, yes.

MR STANDER: Where did you go then?

MR MOLEFE: I went to a place not far from Metro, Coca Cola.  It was in Tannery Road, I was working for Metro Bloom, Tannery Road.  Now Coca Cola is not far from there and I happened to hear that they were looking for more hands, then eventually I got myself a job there.

MR STANDER: What happened after you were employed by Coca Cola?

MR MOLEFE: Well, they continue.  I remember at the time they were driving a Laurel, a Black and White Laurel, registration HSR.

MR STANDER: If you say that they continued are you talking about Mr Motsamai and other police officers or what do you actually mean?

MR MOLEFE: Yes, other policemen, Mr Motsamai present.  They use to come to Metro, no, no, to Coca Cola and talked to then manager who was coming from the local police force.  His name is just escaping me.  Anyway, he was a former policeman that manager.  He also started saying that I am a boss, I am a "Meneer", so evidently his attitude was that of regret that I had been employed.

MR STANDER: Why would you say did his attitude towards you change?

MR MOLEFE: Like I am saying the police use to go to Coca Cola, from where I was working I could have a good view of the tarred road.  I was working in house sales and I was issuing receipts there to people who were coming to make purchases when lorries could not make deliveries to their shops.  Now, I could see what was happening, their ups and downs were very clear to me and undisguised and I had an informant inside there, a person who told me to go and find for a job there, is a person of the same origin as myself.  He is coming from Petrusburg, by the name of Coetzee, Lifu Coetzee.  He informed me that the management were talking with the police and I have also been seeing them going in.  I mean, it is very clear.

MR STANDER: If you refer to the police who are you referring to?

MR MOLEFE: The special branch, the special branch.

MR STANDER: Were any of the applicants present during any of the visits?

MR MOLEFE: Yes, yes Motsamai was present.  He has always been present.

MR STANDER: Were you dismissed later?

MR MOLEFE: Unceremoniously, within one, a month and a half.

MR STANDER: Could you gain any other employment after you were dismissed from Coca Cola?

MR MOLEFE: I remember going to "Asyn", the vinegar "fabriek" not very far from Coca Cola.  I mean, I walked through the Hamilton in the streets, you know, from door to door trying to look for a job.  I remember at one firm the management wanted to know where I worked before and I said Metro and he phoned Metro.   After talking to Neil Otto he dropped the phone and only to say to me that, you know what, when I look at you, then I must put in glasses.  I am reminded of Robert Mugabi of Zimbabwe.  So, obviously he had painted me negatively and thereafter I went to "Asyn.
	The management of Asyn was looking for someone to man the store, I mean a storeman.  Well, I was ready for that, but then he wanted to know also where I worked before and he again or also phoned Metro and after phoning Metro he said, man, you are another Meneer, you know, so ...

MR STANDER: When did you have anything to do for the first time with some of the security officers or what happened after your dismissal from Coca Cola?

MR MOLEFE: Well, they kept going even to my home, I was staying with my uncle.  They would come in the morning, I would hear a knock, when I asked who is that, they would say it is the police.  When I opened the door, say slightly, I would see that, okay, here are they deployed, you know, around the house, you know, in front of the door and they would again say, ask me, do you know Tebogo, who is Tebogo,  no, Tebogo says he knows you.  No man, even if he knows me, but I do not know him.

MR STANDER: When were you arrested again?

MR MOLEFE: Well, I think I should mention that I was arrested in 1973, May 25, together with the PAC nationally, there was that kind of a (...indistinct).

MR STANDER: But I am now talking about the time after you were dismissed from Coca Cola.

MR MOLEFE: Well, police would only come and, for instance, yes, there was a time when the municipality policemen came for me to arrest me for being in Bloemfontein for over 72 and that was in 1984, influx control had been relaxed.  So, the came to me and I was sent before or brought before the Chief of Security, Mr Boucher there, with officers, you know having ...

MR STANDER: When were you arrested by the Security Police again?

MR MOLEFE: Well, formally it was 93, but in between they would go for me and take me to Fountain for questioning, you know.  Even the local police there, after that incident when I met Boucher, they still would come to me, I remember Khanya, one policeman in the security branch of the local police force.

MR STANDER: Can you just repeat the name for us, please.

MR MOLEFE: Khanya.