Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-09-27

FERDINAND BARNARD: Lafras Luitingh.

CHAIRPERSON: Lafras Luitingh.

MR COETZEE: It is generally known that Lafras served as your handler at a certain point while you were in service at the CCB.

FERDINAND BARNARD: That is correct.

MR COETZEE: Was that from the very beginning, since your recruitment?

FERDINAND BARNARD: That is correct.

MR COETZEE: After your recruitment with the CCB, did you receive any training?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I did not receive any training.

MR COETZEE: Were you informed of what the nature of your tasks would be?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Not at the very beginning.  I had two administrative tasks, such as safe houses and places of co-ordination, dead letter drops, post office locations, the dead letter drops.

MR COETZEE: As you understood your tasks, you would be applied for regular legal Defence Force actions and tasks?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No, Chairperson, I knew that what we were going to do would be illegal, but I viewed this in the light of the circumstances and as I thought, I was so indoctrinated and brainwashed at that point, throughout the years, it had started since I joined the police and it was also due to my childhood and my upbringing that I felt that there was a high intensity situation of warfare in the country and that I was part of that war, that I would fight that war but by means of illegal methods.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Coetzee, if I could just ask a quick question while we're on this being employed by the CCB.  Were you paid a salary?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I was paid a fixed salary with benefits, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you have to have a blue plan?

FERDINAND BARNARD: That is correct, Chairperson, I had a blue plan to establish.  As all the others received full medical benefits, vehicles, annuities, I received everything in the same way.

CHAIRPERSON: Why I ask the question was because you referred to Lafras Luitingh as your handler.

FERDINAND BARNARD: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Because normally the handlers dealt with unaware members.  Why was it that you as a full member, ordinary member of the CCB on the same basis as your colleagues, had to have a handler?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Chairperson it became very clear to me that I was handled in a different way.  There was definitely a different plan with me and I was handled in a different way to the other members.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Coetzee.

MR COETZEE: Mr Barnard, if we could just return to the tasks and the fact that you realised that these would not be regular legal tasks, was it ever indicated to you what would take place if you were ever captured, or if you were ever exposed as being part of such illegal actions?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes, Chairperson, of course it was quite important to me because I was already on parole and I still had obligations in terms of my parole.  I made inquiries as such and I was given the fullest assurance that there would be support systems which had been created by the Defence Force, which would ensure that if we were to encounter problems regarding something that we did in an illegal or legal action, that we would not be prosecuted.

MR COETZEE: Did you occupy a position in a command structure?   With the exception of the fact that you had a handler, were you also subordinate to a Commander?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes, well overall to Joe Verster, I would assume.

MR COETZEE: Was that the highest level of the conscious command structure that you were aware of?

FERDINAND BARNARD: No.  I was aware that the line went as far as Gen Joep Joubert, although I never met him and I was also aware that it went as far as Gen Webb subsequently.

MR COETZEE: When you say subsequently, do you mean that this was after the dissolution of the CCB, or were you already aware of Gen Webb during your period of tenure with the CCB?

FERDINAND BARNARD: During my period of tenure.

MR COETZEE: And if we get to the remuneration system and the establishment of the blue plan, what was your blue pan?

FERDINAND BARNARD: After I was discharged from prison an insurance company gave me a job and I worked in their underwriting division and then ultimately I began to do investigations and risk evaluations for them.  That was part of my blue plan because I was so established in the Insurance world and investigations and so forth, there had been many successes, I had disclosed a number of fraud scams for example with vehicle insurance and panel beaters who were working with individuals in insurance divisions and so forth.  I basically carried this over and established it privately and still did the same work and also other work.

MR COETZEE: If we could look at your remunerative package, when you began there, did you receive any scale of remuneration?  Was that explained to you?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes.  A fixed salary was offered to me and in conjunction with this I would receive R700 odd worth of housing subsidies and another allowance for single persons, an annuity, full medical cover and a vehicle which I could purchase for the amount of R30 000.

MR COETZEE: What was your salary when you began there according to the package?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I think it was R2 400 but along with the benefits, without operational expenses, it was approximately R4 000.

MR COETZEE: You said that there was a six month period during which there was the basic inactive establishment of the blue plan.  Was that the same with you in terms of your application?

FERDINAND BARNARD: That is correct.

MR COETZEE: If we could then go to the criminal infiltration and the network, were you told why it would be important to infiltrate the criminal world and to recruit informers?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Yes, Chairperson, the point of departure, as it was conveyed to me by the top structure of the CCB hierarchy was that the MK as well as APLA and PAC liaised very closely with the criminal networks and criminal lines and that they actually walked hand in hand with one another and for that reason access would be needed in that part of society.

MR COETZEE: Your tasking in terms of how to act in such situations within the underworld, were you given any specific guidance or were any guidelines provided to you regarding how you should go about infiltrating such persons and what you were permitted to do and not permitted to do?

FERDINAND BARNARD: I basically had cart blanche regarding who I would recruit.  They just had to have the correct type of access and by that I mean they would have to be persons who had access to foreign countries and African states and where possible they would not move with South African passports.  It included all sorts of criminals.  One has the tendency to view criminal in a very restricted sense.  One would view such a person as someone selling dagga on the street corners.  In fact there are white collar criminals who occupy high positions in the corporate world, who are international figures from here to Tanzania and back.

MR COETZEE: And before we look at the particulars, let us look at the point where you were later recruited for DCC, was this also your task, the continuation of the crime infiltration and such?

FERDINAND BARNARD: Even more so, even more concentrated than with the CCB.  It was also said to me that they would do anything to maintain the network that I had established by that point and that they wanted to develop it even further.  I was financed and that finance grew by the week.  It basically snowballed.

MR COETZEE: Could you slow down please?  Mr Barnard, what was the result of this basic infiltration into the crime network, if we could examine the consequences it had on you.