Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-30

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Sibeko?

MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, may I be excused for now, Mr Mopedi will proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, is your colleague, Mr Mopedi taking over?  Right.  You are excused, Mr Sibeko, thank you.
	Mr Mopedi, you're back  on the record?

MR MOPEDI: I beg your pardon, Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: I say you're back on the record.  Will you indicate who the next applicant is.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  The next applicant is Siphiwe Madondo.  It is for Lusaka-B and it's on page 111, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Madondo, please stand and give us your full names.

SIPHIWE MADONDO: (sworn states)

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Madondo, you are the applicant in this matter and you were also, you are also a formal member of the Self Defence Unit for Lusaka-B, is that correct?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes.

MR MOPEDI: When did you become a member of the Self Defence Unit?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: In 1992.

MR MOPEDI: You became a member in 1992.

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes.

MR MOPEDI: But according to your application here it appears that you became a member in 1993, is that not correct?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, but I as involved in more activities in 1993.

MR MOPEDI: Who was your commander?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: It was Makasonke Mhlope.

MR MOPEDI: For your section, Lusaka-B, did you have a Committee of Seven?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No.

MR MOPEDI: From where were you taking instructions?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: We were taking instructions from Makasonke Mhlope.

MR MOPEDI: Could you tell us why you are applying for amnesty?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: In 1993 we were instructed by Makasonke to patrol during the day because it looked like the commander heard that there were people from KwaZulu Natal who were promised jobs here by their brothers who were staying in the hostels.
	We had to take the instructions.  We started patrolling during the day.  Whenever we suspect a person we would go there and question the person and search that person's property.  We met this other gentleman one day and when we called him to ask him questions he told us that received a letter from his brothers who were staying at Kweseni hostel.  	
	We searched him and we found a membership card of IFP and we told him that we would show him where Kweseni hostel was.  We took him.  It was during the day.  When we were on the way at Everest next to Radebe section, the other people came because everyone was patrolling at the time and this person was assaulted at that point.
	I threw some stones at him and the other one came and shot at him.  I don't even know that person because there were a lot of people there.  I couldn't see who the person was.  
	It happened again in 1993.  We were patrolling again as commanded by the commander at Nguni.  It happened that there were people from Slovo section patrolling.  A car from the mortuary came from Ngaki Street towards Penduka hostel.  We heard Jamani screaming and saying "Here is the commander from the IFP".  We started running towards that direction.  The coffin from the hearse was taken out and the coffin was burnt down.  That is why I'm asking for amnesty.

MR MOPEDI: Okay, let's got back to the first incident.  You say this person, the one who eventually was killed who was going to Kweseni, are you referring to - could you explain if you say to Kweseni, which place are you referring to?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Will you please repeat that, will you please repeat your question, Sir?

MR MOPEDI: I'm saying, pertaining to the first incident you say there was a person who was actually told that he was going to Kweseni, now I want you to explain, if you say Kweseni, are you referring Kweseni hostel, are you referring to Kweseni station?  Please be specific and be clear.

SIPHIWE MADONDO: I'm referring to the Kweseni hostel.  This person told us that he received a letter from his brothers who told him that they were going to find a job for him, so he was supposed to go to the Kweseni hostel.  We decided to search that person to see if you had no firearms but we found the membership card of the IFP organisation.

MR MOPEDI: Were you seeing this person for the first time?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, that is why we suspected him.

MR MOPEDI: And you didn't even know his name?  Will I be correct if I say so?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, that is correct.

MR MOPEDI: So the role that you have played, you have told us that you threw stones and one of you fired a shot at this person.  I want to know, you in particular, what role have you played?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: People who were afraid were not given firearms and our job was to patrol during the day because we were afraid to patrol during the night because the majority of us were taken by the Stability Unit and others would die.
	I was only participating by using things that I would come across if a person is captured, just like the person we took to the Kweseni hostel.  That is why I'm asking for amnesty because I did not do much.  I did not participate in most things.

MR MOPEDI: Were you carrying a firearm?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, as I've already you, it's not all of us who were given firearms.  We were not brave, all of us.  Some of us were not in favour of carrying firearms because we were not brave.  Therefore I did not have a firearm.

MR MOPEDI: Did you do anything during the killing of that person?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Perhaps by throwing stones I killed that person, but I won't know.

MR MOPEDI: If I understand you very well, at one stage you threw a stone or a brick at this person.

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, I threw stones, bricks, I threw bricks.

MR MOPEDI: Let's come to the second incident.  What role have you played during the second incident?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: When Jamani called us, I am the person who heard that he was calling us and I rushed towards that direction and I was the first person.  It was myself and Jamani who dragged the coffin out of the hearse.  There were people who were called Chiza Boys in the township.  I don't even know where the petrol came from but I saw petrol there and the person was in flames, the dead body was in flames.  The only thing that I did was to drag the coffin out of the hearse and it broke.

MR MOPEDI: And do you know who was in the coffin?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, I did not know.  I had Jamani who told me that it was an IFP commander.

MR MOPEDI: And do you know the name of the said commander of the IFP?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, I cannot remember.

MR MOPEDI: So you want to tell this hearing that at no stage did you carry a firearm, an AK47?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, I have already said that it's not all of us who were brave enough to carry the firearms.

MR MOPEDI: You are asking for amnesty in respect of your acts, the first one being where you threw the person who was going to Kweseni hostel with a brick?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, because I am not happy because of all those things that I did.

MR MOPEDI: And the second one where you have pulled a coffin out of a hearse?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes, that is correct.

MR MOPEDI: Are there any further incidents that you would like to tell this hearing?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No.

MR MOPEDI: Is there anything that you would like to add?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No.

MR MOPEDI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mopedi.

ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP

CHAIRPERSON: Panel?

ADV SANDI: Thank you, Chair.
	Mr Madondo, did you see the name of the funeral undertakers?  Normally they will write the name of the company on the vehicle, did you pick up the name?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, this took place in 1993, I cannot even remember what was written on the car, on the hearse.

ADV SANDI: That vehicle of the funeral undertakers, was it also burnt?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: No, it was not burnt down.

ADV SANDI: Only the coffin and the body were burnt?

SIPHIWE MADONDO: Yes.