Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-18

MR VISSER: In 1985 you then arrived here in Durban at the Security Branch, is that correct?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And you were then placed in the terrorism section under the command of the then Major Taylor?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.  Not directly, I first served in another division before I was transferred to Major Taylor's section.

MR VISSER: Very well, in this capacity were you involved in any operations where it was about, among others, the interrogation of alleged terrorists and so forth?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Mr van der Westhuizen, never in your career as a policeman have you killed anybody, is that correct?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: However, you were present at, among others, this incident involving Mr Nxiweni where someone was indeed killed?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that's correct.

MR VISSER: The scenes which you experienced and your perception of the political violence, did this lead you to the conclusion that in certain exceptional circumstances aggression had to be applied for example in the case of Mr Nxiweni?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And is that the reason why you reconciled yourself with that murder?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: If we could move to the actual incident, Mr van der Westhuizen, with regard to Pumeso Nxiweni, is it correct that on the afternoon of the fourth of November you received an order from Mr Botha along with Mr Du Preez to go to a certain place at Kings Park Stadium?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: On the way there did Mr Botha say anything to you in connection with why you were going there?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: What did he tell you?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Mr Botha put it to me that a person we were going to go and arrest was a very dangerous ANC terrorist and that we were going to capture him and that he was going to be eliminated.

MR VISSER: And that was on the way there?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: In the light of the fact that in 1985 you came to Durban, did you have any personal share in the investigation of the Ramlakan matter?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No.

MR VISSER: To tell the truth, at that point in time on 4 November 1988 while you were on your way to King's Park Stadium, what was your rank at that stage?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I was a Sergeant.

MR VISSER: So you were the lowest in rank of those three persons who went to the stadium that day?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And were you also the lowest in rank of the persons who ultimately became involved in the incident?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: It is history now that Mr Pumeso was found there after he had been lured there by an informer and that he was then arrested by you in order to, put it that way, he was grabbed?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: You then went to the safe house in Verulam?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And we know that Mr Nxiweni spent the rest of the day and the evening and the following morning there being interrogated?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Did you yourself participate in his interrogation?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: With what purpose?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: With the purpose of obtaining further information with regard to other units and his units.

MR VISSER: Anything else?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: To make a final attempt to convince him to become an informer.

MR VISSER: Did you within your own conscience have any hope that you would be able to win him over as an informer?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No.

MR VISSER: And was this as the result of his attitude which he displayed there?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, that's correct.

MR VISSER: Did you yourself know about activities which Mr Nxiweni had been involved, did you know about this previously?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And that it was alleged and that you had information that he participated in actions which led to violence and death and mutilation?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that's correct.

MR VISSER: Did Mr Botha tell you why he believed that Mr Nxiweni should be eliminated?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: What did he tell you?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Mr Botha told me that Nxiweni was a very dangerous operative, that he did not believe that he would be recruitable and that we could not replace him into society again seeing he was a dangerous person.

MR VISSER: In other words this was the only way to stop him?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: During the process of the interrogation, according to the evidence which we have already heard, we understand that Mr Nxiweni provided information to you with regard to an explosion that had taken place the previous evening at the Rossburgh Railway Station in Durban?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Were you present when he provided this information?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes.

MR VISSER: What did he say with regard to his own share?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: He said that he and his members had planted the bomb.

MR VISSER: And did he also provide any information regarding what was to happen on that evening of the 4th November?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: You may tell us?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: He told us that he had already on the previous evening planted on a bomb on the railway line near Montclair.

MR VISSER: What happened then as a result of this information?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: After that Du Preez and I left immediately for Montclair to see if we could trace the device.

MR VISSER: And both of you were demolitions experts?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Was the idea to render the bomb unharmful?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: What happened upon your arrival at the scene?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: When we arrived there we saw police vehicles and drew the inference that the bomb had already exploded.  We were also informed as such by the policemen on the scene.

MR VISSER: Did you go back to the safe house after that?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: I understand that on the following day Mr Nxiweni also provided information with regards to a DLB?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Were you there when Botha left for the place where the DLB was supposed to be?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: No.

MR VISSER: Did you remain at the safe house?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Who remained there with you?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Mr Taylor.

MR VISSER: And we know that it was Botha, Wasserman and Du Preez who then went to the Alan Taylor Residence?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: When did Taylor and Wasserman arrive on the scene, can you remember?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: The second day, that would be the 5th, they arrived there late that afternoon.

MR VISSER: And after that it was when the people went to the Alan Taylor Residence?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Well truthfully, it was in the evening?