Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-11-04

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, my next - I'll try to call them in a sequence Mr Chairperson since two are involved in two incidents.  I'll call Zola Prince Mabala, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Chairperson, just before he is sworn in to testify Mr Chairperson, I want to put it on record that he is the person we have been waiting for the whole of this morning.  Mr Chairperson, Mr Mabala, I've received information also myself I've consulted with him, is not well.  He's - if I may put it this way, he is suffering from memory loss, we have a problem even in communicating with him and he was in prison hospital, he's been kept in prison hospital because he can't, whatever he is saying you can't make sense from it, but he's trying if you are patient with him.  What I'm trying to, I'm calling him to confirm the affidavit.  That's why I didn't start with him though he's a commander, we are supposed to start with him concerning the affidavit of Mr Khotle.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr Mabala, do you wish to take the oath or do you wish to make an affirmation of the truth?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mabala, while you're testifying if you have any problems with your health just let Mr Mbandazayo know and he'll let us know and if necessary we can take an adjournment.

MR MABANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mabala, you have heard the evidence of Mr Khotle.  Do you confirm the evidence of Mr Khotle inasfar as it relates to yourself?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes I do confirm it.

MR MBANDAZAYO: And you abide by that evidence by Mr Khotle?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson, I'm not going to lead any further evidence, this witness is open to questions of the Committee.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No questions thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY ADV MPSHE

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Motata?

ADV MOTATA: I've got none Chairperson, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?

ADV BOSMAN: No questions thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me see if there's anything here?  Mr Mabala were you ever arrested or charged in respect of either the Vanderbijlpark incident or the Heilbron incident, the two that are the subject of this hearing?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes because I'm involved in a court case.

CHAIRPERSON: And that court case is still pending?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Has it been pended pending the outcome of this application?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes I think so.

CHAIRPERSON: If you take a look at paragraph 10 of Mr Khotle's affidavit.  You see Mr Khotle, the previous witness says that the unit which shot at the Vanderbijl ambush, which shot at the people inside a motor car was himself, Solly, that's Zola Mabala which is yourself, the commander and Boysi.  Now the commander there is that Jan, do you confirm that it was Jan?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: I was the commander.

CHAIRPERSON: Now who is Tabang?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Tabang is the one who just testified.

CHAIRPERSON: And - I can't read this properly - Masidwa?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: He's the one who just testified.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.  Mr Mabala, were you the commander of the unit that conducted these operations?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you in turn receive orders from anybody with regard to these operations?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes I got them from Cuma.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I notice from your application form that you're applying for a variety of incidents beyond these two that we are dealing with today.  Mr Mbandazayo, have those others been dealt with or will be dealt with in the future?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes Mr Chairperson, if I may clarify, all the others were, the operation in Cape Town, Heidelberg Tavern and Khayelitsha Police Station ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Have these been dealt with?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, already been granted amnesty in respect of all the others.  It's the only two which is remaining in his application.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you and Mr Mabala, on the conclusion of these incidents, the Vanderbijl incident and the Heilbron incident, did you report back to anybody?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: We went back to where we came from.  I gave back a report to the person who gave me this order.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, any questions arising out of questions that have been put by the panel?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Mr Chairman.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I have none Mr Chairman save on what the Chair has asked the applicant to confirm that he is awaiting trial on the two incidents.  I was phoned this very Monday by the State Advocate, he actually appeared in court on Monday and I was told by the State Advocate that the case will be postponed to next year pending the decision of amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe.  I'm sorry, just before I finish, because of the brevity of the evidence and his condition, with regard to the question of full disclosure, Mr Mbandazayo, do you confirm the contents of your application forms, Mr Mabala, namely that you were a member of the Pan Africanist Congress and also that you were a trained cadre in the Azanian Peoples Liberation Army at the time of these incidents?

ZOLA PRINCE MABALA: Yes I do confirm that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED