Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-30

DR BORAINE: Chairperson the following witness is Mrs Mabel Matlakala Makope, and I would be grateful if she would come to the witness stand please.  Could you please make sure you've got the earphones on your head.  Mrs Makope can you hear me on the earphones?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: Yes I can hear you.

DR BORAINE: Can I ask you, you have brought somebody with you, is this somebody to support you, who is that please?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: This is my sister.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much, and we would like to welcome your sister as well and we are so grateful that you've got somebody to come along with you and go home with you as well.  Mrs Makope you will tell the story of a third person who disappeared and in some strange way these three names have become linked and you will tell us what happened in July 1987 and then what happened subsequently when you first discovered what really happened to your husband.  I am going to ask my colleague Tom Manthata to help you to tell that story, but before I call on him I would be grateful if you will please stand to take the oath.

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: Please be seated and Mr Manthata, I will hand it over to you now.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Sister Matlakala I want to first ask you a
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question about this surname, is it Makope or Makupe?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: It's Makope.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Oh yes it's Makope.  Please relax.  I am going to ask two or three questions and then just give me answers.  Where do you live?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: We live at Mamelodi in Pretoria.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  Do you have children?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: Yes we have three children.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Are they at school?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: Yes they are at school.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Before Andrew's disappearance what was he working?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: He was running an undertaker, it was his brother's undertaker.  His brother was out and he left it with him.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Can you explain to us how Andrew disappeared?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: On the 17th we only saw that he was not yet back home.  I had a three-week old baby.  When the baby was supposed to be a month old, the following day and the father just disappeared.  I didn't see Andrew that day.  I saw him only during the day when he went to town to buy clothes for the child and he said he has a pain in the leg and he wants to go to the doctor.  I was only surprised to see it was four o'clock and he wasn't coming back.  And then I realised it's now six o'clock, I have to call and find out his whereabouts.  They said to me no he picked up his belongings and he went home.  I said maybe he's gone somewhere else.  He will come back.  That was the situation till the next morning.
 At eight o'clock I called his place of work and then I discovered that it wasn't open.  I called his granny, that's JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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Andrew's granny.  I called her and she said I went to work to find out what was happening, Andrew left with the keys and everything.  And she called me and she said we broke the key, we will buy another one, let's just go and search for him.  We went to the police station and I gave them the statement.  That was the first day.  
 I was welcomed by Mr Phuta.  In the middle of the statement he said no, I am not going to write this statement.  Are you telling me this is Freddy's brother?  No, maybe Andrew went along with his brother and he left the statement in the middle.  But tomorrow morning make it a point that you are here.
 Well the following day I went early.  I remained there until it was one.  I even requested them to fetch my child because I didn't feed the child at all.  Many White policemen came in.  They took me into Sergeant Ghanyani's office and they said to me your husband has run away from you, he's in Botswana.  If I really agree with what they say they will go to Botswana and go and search for him.  They will only do that if I give them certain information.  I didn't know anything.  And they told me they will build me a house.  They even indicated that he left me with a very small baby.  I said to them there is nothing I can tell you.   Well I left the police station.  They said they will call me back.  They called me, they asked me questions relating to Freddy as well as Andrew.  I told them never to ask me any question about Freddy, what I want is only Andrew.  And they said Andrew has been picked up by his brother because he wants to go and be with him.  They never contacted me anymore.
 We started our own investigations.  We went to the 
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hospitals.  I started losing my mind.  I was sick.  Andrew's mother and Andrew's father supported me throughout until today, because since his disappearance I have never been employed.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The policeman you said it's Phuta, Kuputa?  Who is this Phuta, were you used to him?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: He was the policeman at the charge office at Mamelodi police station.  The next day when I came they had already phoned the Compol policemen but I never saw him again.  Whenever I got to the police station he is no longer there until today.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who is this Laghanyan(?)?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: He is a big man, he is a senior policeman in Mamelodi.

THOMAS MANTHATA: According to your knowledge was Andrew involved in any political organisations, ANC or PAC?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: No Andrew wasn't involved in any organisation.  But Andrew used to visit his brother outside the country.  He used to take him money or other things that his brother required.  On one day he told me that my brother calls me quite a lot, but one day the police are going to arrest me.  So I said leave him, stop going to see your brother.  You can make use of other means of sending him money, don't go to him.  He said that if I don't go I will die.  I don't know what he was scared of or why was he obligated to see him.  All I knew is that he was not politically involved.
(Excuse me we cannot hear the speaker)

THOMAS MANTHATA: When he said he was afraid to go to Botswana to see his brother didn't he say that what he was afraid of was the police inside the country?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: I really do not know what he was afraid of
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because it had been quite a long time that he had been looking after his brother was out of the country, but it looks like he was obligated to look after his brother.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  The mistake is that here in the statement they said he once worked for the police up until there was a time they no longer trusted him. They thought he was going to reveal him.

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: No I do not know that.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Have you now given up in finding out what - have you been trying the traditional witchdoctors?

MABEL MATLALAKA MAKOPE: Many of these witchdoctors continue to tell us that he's there, he's still alive, but according to me, because he kept on going outside the country, I began to realise that he would not be alive, and where would he be you know, how could he just disappear with no trace.  I realise that there was no place where they could hide him.  But then I began to believe in miracles that maybe some miracles could happen, we will just see him appearing.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You said one day you were told by a person that he could have been taken by police in a combi?