Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-03-30

MR MASEKO: It was four of us, we started on three operations.  We had three groups, the first one was assault group, the second one the support group, the third one was a cut out group.

MR NTONGA: Who was in the assault group and how many were there?

MR MASEKO: I can't remember not unless I can page through the document.

MR LAX: You'll find it on page 4 and 3.

MR MASEKO: I was with Mazi in the support group and Boponi, there was Kembe, there was Ianda, there was Haspa who was called P.B. that was the assault group.
	In the support group there was Jomo, Pagati, Jomo was called Pagati.  There was Liza who was called Mpule, there was Kagis who was called Lungu and the other one it was myself, in the cut out group I was called Njebe.

MR NTONGA: Were you alone in the cut out group - with somebody else?

MR MASEKO: There were two of us it was myself and D.K. who was called Roobooi.

MR NTONGA: When you got to the University tell the Commission how did you carry out this raid.  Did you plan before you get into the university?

MR MASEKO: Yes we planned before and we planned according to what was supposed to happen in the group, the support group was going to get inside and the support group was going to give them assistance in whatever that was happening so that if when the time to go out - if it was time to go out then they were going to help us, they were going to help the group that was inside and the cut out was left outside to try and terminate anything that would happen that would disturb the people who were already working inside.

MR NTONGA: What happened when you arrived there having planned all this and having divided yourself into three groups?

MR MASEKO: They went inside, they followed the instructions as they were given and assault group was the group to go inside and find some money and the support group was giving them assistance but when they weren't inside it happened that there were policemen in private clothes and they started to shoot.  Then the others shot back that's where one of the people passed away and the two others were injured.  I was injured, I didn't see what happened inside because I was outside, all I know is what I got from the people.

MR NTONGA: Who was in command of the unit when you carried out this operation?

MR MASEKO: The whole unit - the overall commander was myself and the three groups in the assault group, the support group -for each of them there was a separate commander so that the things would go as planned without any conflict but I was the overall commander.

MR NTONGA: Where exactly were you stationed during this operation?

MR MASEKO: I was outside in the cut out group, outside the premises, outside the target area.

MR NTONGA: And what happened after the assault group had gone inside the auditorium of the university?

MR MASEKO: I heard the gunshots after they were inside.  There was exchange of gunfire and I was behind.  I saw one person carrying a gun and he started shooting and I was shot right above the knee.  That's where I started looking for cover at the residential area where somebody dressed my wound.  It was already far from the car, I couldn't go to the car, I took a taxi.  I went through the yard of the University.

MR NTONGA: Do you know the person who gave you assistance in the Campus?

MR MASEKO: It was a student, I don't know the name, I just saw the person at that time.
	I took a taxi, I went back to the spot where we agreed that we were going to meet after the operation and all the members of the unit didn't manage to reach the place.  They came the following day, I saw them the following day.  They came with all the money that was taken there, I took the money straight to the APLA Administrator in the Transkei Region.  That money was about R5000.

CHAIRPERSON: R5000?

MR MASEKO: It was R500 000.

MR NTONGA: Okay, can you tell the commission before you made the raid or operation where did you get the instructions to carry it out?

MR MASEKO: As we were soldiers, soldiers normally get their instructions from their superiors.  My superior at the time it was Lelape Mphalele.  He's the one who was giving me the orders.

MR NTONGA: And after the operation did you report back to your superior?

MR MASEKO: Yes, after each and every operation you've got to make a feedback and tell exactly what happened in total things that we have taken from wherever, things like money or whatever, we would take them to the Administrator, it was Mandla, the one that I gave him all the things that we got during the raid.

MR NTONGA: And all this was planned and these were your instructions each and after every raid or operation?

MR MASEKO: After each and every operation we do a report back.

MR NTONGA: Page 22 of the bundle there's a list of people in the report made to the administrator.  Let's start with that.  Did you make this report to the administrator?  You submitted an affidavit.

MR MASEKO: I can't see it.

MR NTONGA: See this part at 22?

MR MASEKO: Yes I can see.

MR NTONGA: Did you make it yourself or did somebody make it on your behalf?

MR MASEKO: This is not my handwriting but when I look at this report it's like that report the one that I did.

MR NTONGA: A list of names - there are eight and it does not tally with what you have submitted at page 4 of your affidavit.  Can you explain to the Commission the nicknames and who is who?  The number is correct, 8.

MR MASEKO: All these people who are here they had their pseudo names but whenever the people are making the - during the operation, just before the operation people normally get their new names but I can remember two or three of them, of their real names.

MR NTONGA: So are you saying to the Commission that the people in the report to the administrator are the same as at paragraph 12 of page 4 of your affidavit?

CHAIRPERSON: Which affidavit are you referring to?

MR NTONGA: That is page 74 - his affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Page?

MR NTONGA: 74.  His own affidavit.

MR MASEKO: These people here are the same people but they are different names but they are the same people.

MR NTONGA: In this report it is alleged that Zambi was the commander.  Does Zambi stand for your name?

MR MASEKO: It's Njebe not Zambi that was myself.

CHAIRPERSON: What did he say I didn't catch it?

MR NTONGA: Njebe.
	When you carried out the operation do you still remember what type of arms were you people carrying?

MR MASEKO: I can't remember clearly but we didn't have enough because we were eight and we had only seven arms so I ended up with a knife because there was shortage of arms.

MR NTONGA: So you won't remember what is in this report at page 22?  These arms that have been listed down there?

MR MASEKO: There's a mistake here - there was a mistake we were supposed to be given the arms equivalent to our number but on that particular day there was a shortage.

MR NTONGA: Is that why you were armed with one Okapi as you say in the affidavit?

MR MASEKO: That's correct sir.

MR NTONGA: After the operation you said you handed over the money to the administrator in the Transkei?

MR MASEKO: That's correct sir.

MR NTONGA: What was he supposed to do with the money?  ...[inaudible] in the reference?

MR MASEKO: Actually if there was no money - planning normally requires money and he would have to take money from the budget of APLA.  And the same money would be used because we had a belief that this Boer Regime was the one that was actually oppressing us and part of their policies actually failed therefore, that's why I had to give this money to the administrator.

MR NTONGA: So are you saying to the Commission that the money was not for your personal gain or unit personal gain but for APLA ...[inaudible]

MR MASEKO: That's correct sir, that's what I'm trying to say.

MR NTONGA: You and the unit did not retain any money you handed to the channels ...inaudible?

MR MASEKO: That's correct sir.