Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

MRS GCABASHE: Is it fine if I call you Matsidiso? Tell us briefly where doyou stay, where do you come from, who is your family?

WITNESS: I stay in Bathu location, a section called Fourand Six, but I use the Rockland address where I am staying. I live in a shackclose to Mangawung School, but I actually come from Rockland.

MRS GCABASHE: You said ... (incomplete)

WITNESS: My home is in Rockland,

MRS GCABASHE: There is something - you've just said now you live in Mangawung.Can you please elaborate?

WITNESS: I erected a shack close to the school in a ground.Yes, I have two places where I stay, but it's two years now that I have beenstaying at Four and Six.

MRS GCABASHE: You are here to tell us about the torture at the Fountain SecurityBranch.

WITNESS: Yes, that's right.

MRS GCABASHE: I have a question that I would like to ask you. You said youjoined the ANC in 1976.

WITNESS: It was around 1977 when I joined.

MRS GCABASHE: What happened then in 1980?

WITNESS: In 1980 I was arrested. Itwas '79 when I remember well. The schools were closing on that day. I wantedto say we were closing the shops down because we wanted to mourn for the June16 day. The police arrested us. We've already closed down all the shops aroundMangawung. I think it was the last shop that we were supposed to go to, andthe owner of that shop called the police. Very close to the hostel the policecame and they arrested us. They asked us what have we done to the shop owners,why do we tell people to close down their shops? I intimidated that gentleman.I said, "What have we said to you?" He said, "You told me to close down ourshops." They took us to Fountain Security Branch, and on our way a black policemenslapped one of the people who were arrested, and he used his elbow to press him against the seat. He left him and then he lookedat me. He also slapped me. I just looked at him. We were now getting into thetown. He was now talking nicely to us, and he asked us what do we want to bein the future. And then I can't remember what answer did we give him. When wearrived at Fountain Security Branch we parked on the other side, and the otherside was Fountain Security Branch. This hefty man was holding me and I was juston my tiptoes. When we got into the building Hendrik Prinsloo came in, and hesaid to me he thinks he knows me. And he quickly grabbed one of the Comrades,or one of the people who was in our company, he started assaulting him. He hithim against the wall. He even used his fists.

MRS GCABASHE: Matsidiso, I want to take you back. You said the Amabutho attackedyou. Can you please tell us who do you refer to when you say Amabutho?

WITNESS: Thefirst time when the Amabutho attacked me it was in 1986. I was from the ANCtraining.

MRS GCABASHE: Who are these Amabutho?

WITNESS: These were the police under theleadership of Mayor Matobisa.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you. You say you've been in gaol for six months. ---No, I was arrested because - can you please repeat that question. No, the ANCComrades arrested me. He was an MK member.

MRS GCABASHE: You said to us you were injured. Did you go to the doctor?Did you go to the doctor because you were injured?

WITNESS: Are you referring tothe attacks by the Amabutho? Yes, I went to Philonomi Hospital. I only wokeup at Philonomi Hospital. I don't know who took me to the hospital. These peoplewho assaulted me, they did all

MRS GCABASHE: this at ... (inaudible) ... they had a police dog with  them.

MRS GCABASHE: Can I please take you back once more. Do you know the nameof the doctor who examined you?

WITNESS: No, I don't know the doctor's name, butI think the files are still there.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, the name of the hospital you went to?

WITNESS: I went to PhilonomiHospital.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you have any record that will tell us that you've been admittedto the s hospital? If we want to know further about your stay in hospital shallwe get any document?

WITNESS: No, I don't have any document with me, but there isinformation. Even at the hospital I saw the policemen who tortured me, togetherwith Gerrard who used to search my home. I wanted to run away, but another girltook me back to the bed.

MRS GCABASHE: Matsidiso, we want to thank you. We have listened to the wayin which you were tortured and we feel very sorry. You said to us you even wentto the hospital to see the doctor. We will try to find out from the doctor whatkind of help can we give you. Are you still under medication?

WITNESS: No, not atthis stage.

MRS GCABASHE: Are you employed?

WITNESS: No, I was expelled in 1980.

MRS GCABASHE: Thank you very much, Matsidiso. I will now take everythingback to the Chairman.

WITNESS: I think I didn't mention most of the things that Iwanted to say. I was told that some of the things I will come and say beforethe Commission. The torture that they did to me I didn't talk about. I thinkthe people who tortured me were from the Inkatha, because they were speakinga different language.  Thank you very much. We will try to find out from the hospitalwhat happened.

MR LYSTER: Mr Marais, you said that there were threeseparate occasions where you were tortured or assaulted. One was in 1979. Thatwas when you were taken to the Fountain Security Branch headquarters. Againin 1980 you were taken to the Fountain Security Branch headquarters, and againin 1991 when you were attacked or assaulted at your home by the Amabutho. Isthat correct?

WITNESS: When the Amabutho assaulted me it was in 1990.

MR LYSTER: But is it correct that you were taken in 1979 to Fountain SecurityBranch and you were tortured there, and again in 1980?

WITNESS: Yes, that's true.

MR LYSTER: Do you want to just tell us briefly the manner in which theytortured you in 1979?