Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-19

MR BERGER: Chairperson, if I could say that the context was, how it all arose, Mr Strydom wasn't here, was Mr Lowies put to Ms Molete yesterday
"I put it to you that there were no whites or no police involved in the attack."
And her comment on that was:
"No, it's not correct, because even when we went to Pretoria, Mr Strydom said to us he accepted that there were whites and police involved."
And then went on to explain what happened.  And then she was cross-examined on that whole context of what happened in Pretoria.  That's how it arose, it arose as a response to a proposition which was put in cross-examination.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, Chairperson, but if that was in response to the question, why was she led in-chief now, the second witness, to also state what happened in Pretoria?

MR BERGER: Okay.  She was led in-chief because she was referred to by her sister, Miriam Molete, Florence Molete was also there, and I thought if I don't lead her in-chief I'm going to be criticised for, or some inference will be drawn for not leading the evidence which is apparently available to us.  That was the only reason for putting it up in-chief.

MR STRYDOM: Because the same situation arose earlier on in regard to Mr Berger, that I've become a witness now.  I will cross-examine this witness now on these aspects and if needs be we will have to investigate this whole issue further and then I'll have to call witnesses at a later stage, to rebut what these witnesses are saying.  But just for record purposes, I must rely on my memory, I obviously deny one hundred percent that I paid them any money whatsoever and my recollection is that they did not want to speak to us, as is reflected in the record, at that stage.

MR BERGER: Well then surely that should be canvassed in cross-examination.

MR STRYDOM: But I'm in the situation that I must cross-examine a witness now, which makes an allegation towards me ...(intervention)

MR BERGER: I had to do exactly the same.

MR STRYDOM: Would that mean that I can put leading questions to this witness in that regard?
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

MR STRYDOM: Can I proceed with the cross-examination?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: (Cont)
	Yesterday I asked you about statements you made and if you testified at the Goldstone Commission.  We've established now that you did testify at the Goldstone Commission.  The question is, did you tell the Commission exactly what you told this Committee, as to what happened in Boipatong?

MR LAX: Just let her speak to us directly.  Just explain your problem please.  Please explain your problem.

FLORENCE MOLETE: I can't hear properly.

INTERPRETER: Apparently the witness doesn't receive the message.
MR LAX ARRANGES DIFFERENT HEADSET

INTERPRETER: She can now receive.  May you please repeat the question, Advocate Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: The question was; did you - the version you told to the Goldstone Commission, does it correspond with what you've stated here in front of this Committee, in relation to what happened in Boipatong on that night?

FLORENCE MOLETE: At the Goldstone Commission I remember everything that happened, but now I have forgotten some things that took place that day.

MR STRYDOM: After the Goldstone Commission and at a later stage you've signed another statement which was taken by Lucky Samuel Kekana, the police officer, do you remember that?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Lucky Kekana came to us and took the statements but I don't remember whether I signed that statement.

MR STRYDOM: I want you to have a look at Exhibit GG, the statement appears on pages 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14, but look at page 11, the bottom of that.  A portion of the signature is cut off, but can you still make out your signature on that page?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, I do see.

MR STRYDOM: And also on the next page, page 12?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, I do see.

MR STRYDOM: And then at the end of your statement, on page 13, there also appears the signature of Florence Molete, is that your signature?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, that's mine.

CHAIRPERSON: What page is that, Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: 13, Chairperson.

MR BERGER: Mr Lax, it will be 11.

MR LAX: Ja, I've got it.  Not only do we work backwards, but you know ...

MR STRYDOM: When you spoke to Kekana, could you understand him?

FLORENCE MOLETE: He was speaking in Sebedi, Northern Sotho, mixing with other languages.  I speak Sesotho, but I could understand him because I do understand iSebedi.

MR STRYDOM: Which languages did he mix?

FLORENCE MOLETE: He would mix iSebedi and seTswana.  I know iSebedi.

MR STRYDOM: But did you tell him what happened on that night in Boipatong?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: And did he write it down?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: And after the statement was written down, did he read it to you again, translate it to you again?

FLORENCE MOLETE: No.

MR STRYDOM: When you signed the statement were you happy that what you were signing is in fact your statement?

FLORENCE MOLETE: May you please repeat your question again.

MR STRYDOM: I'll put it differently, why did you sign the statement?

FLORENCE MOLETE: He told me to sign the statement as he had finished writing.

MR STRYDOM: But will you only sign a statement if you're happy with the contents of it?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I was not happy because I was still feeling pains, emotional pain as well.

MR STRYDOM: Why did you sign the statement then?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Because he was a policeman I did sign the statement.

CHAIRPERSON: What are you conveying, Ms Molete, are you saying that you did not want to sign the statement?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I did sign the statement.  He said to me I should tell him everything that I know.  I did so, then after that he said to me I should sign and I signed the statement.

CHAIRPERSON: And as far as you are concerned, you told him everything you know of and concerning the attack?

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, I told him everything except my injury.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we know that.  And before you were asked to sign the statement, it was not read back to you?  Before you signed the statement, it was not read back to you?

FLORENCE MOLETE: It was not read back to me, he was in a hurry.

MR STRYDOM: But the statement you gave you did so freely and voluntarily, is that right?  You were not forced to do it.

FLORENCE MOLETE: Yes, I did it voluntarily.

MR STRYDOM: You testified yesterday that the one injury to your private parts is something you kept for yourself up to two months ago and that was the first occasion, about two months ago, when you were prepared to tell someone about that, is that right?

MR BERGER: She didn't say two months.

MR STRYDOM: I think the estimate was two months ago.

MR BERGER: A few months ago.

MR STRYDOM: A few months, a few months, sorry.  A few months ago, is that correct?

FLORENCE MOLETE: That's correct, that's when I was prepared to tell everything concerning my injury.

MR STRYDOM: But why weren't you prepared to tell the policeman, Kekana that?

FLORENCE MOLETE: He is younger than myself.

MR STRYDOM: Why were you not prepared to tell Caroline Nichols and Barbara, I forgot the surname again ...

MR BERGER: Sudana.

MR STRYDOM: Sudana.  ... that at an earlier stage when they took a statement?

FLORENCE MOLETE: I was still afraid to tell that.

MR STRYDOM: But will you be afraid to tell about the injury you sustained?

FLORENCE MOLETE: May you please repeat the question.

MR STRYDOM: I can't understand why you were afraid to tell about the injury you sustained.

FLORENCE MOLETE: It was embarrassing to me.  Even Caroline and those people who accompanied her were younger than myself.