Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

MR NDOU: Thank you Chairperson, I now call upon applicant number 2725  Nemakhavani D, and his application appears on pages 120 etc.  May I request that he be sworn in?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: (sworn states)

MR NDOU: Mr David Nemakhavani, you are also an applicant in this matter, is that correct?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: That is correct.

MR NDOU: You have applied for amnesty in terms of Section 18 of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act of 1995, is that also correct.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes that's correct.

MR NDOU: Now I see in your application you indicate that you are here because of certain offences that you want to state before the Committee and ask amnesty on, that is the charges pertaining to murder, arson and assault TBH, is that correct.  Are those the charges that you were convicted in the court?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: The murder of who?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: The murder of Edward Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Arson in respect of what?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: In connection with the house of Mr Edward Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: And the assault?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I assaulted Nkambereni Mahvunga but I wasn't charged on that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: So what are you convicted of?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Of murder and assault.

CHAIRPERSON: But want to make application in respect of the assault TBH as well?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes that is also included.

CHAIRPERSON: Why Mr Ndou, is assault sole TBH for which he has been charged and acquitted, why do we have to deal with that?

MR NDOU: Well apparently at the time when the form was filled in, it was inadvertently filled in, it only appeared now that he was in fact not charged on that count, so we will not delve into that.

CHAIRPERSON: So you're withdrawing it, take instructions on that?

MR NDOU: Yes we have spoken to him and indicated that wont fall within amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.

MR NDOU: Now I want to find out from you, during 1990, if I look in your application, you were born on the 2nd of April 1970...(intervention)

MR NDOU: Well I don't think there's any dispute as to the formal particulars.

MR NDOU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there Mr van Rensburg?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes I agree, there's no dispute on that.

MR NDOU: Now during 1990, were you a member of any political organisation?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I was just a supporter.

MR NDOU: Of which organisation?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: ANC.

MR NDOU: Now in your area was there any formal structure that had been formed politically?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: No it was not yet.

MR NDOU: What did you have?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: There was no structure but before there was the release of Nelson Mandela.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes please explain.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: When Nelson Mandela was released, then we felt that we now understand political issues and accordingly we were happy that he was released.  It then led us into knowing what was happening as far as politics was concerned.  It is then that we people of Mahvunga decided to be involved in celebrating the release of Nelson Mandela.  It was then that we went further because in other countries youth congresses were being formed and then we also decided to form such youth congress of Mahvunga village.  What was more important was for us to be involved in politics because we were starting to realise that there are many things which we were expecting in relation to politics.  When we formed this youth congress it was then that we started to establish something which we wanted to correct because there were people who were having grievances, not knowing how to overcome them. We were having grievances in connection with ritual murder and witchcraft, some of the obstacles which were disturbing and then that led us into asking our headman by then that we be allowed in that Mahvunga country, that all the people who were involved in witchcraft should be evicted if possible.  What happened in which we were interested is that we were happy to free so that we were free.

MR NDOU: Of which headman are you speaking?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I'm referring to the headman Mr Adam Mahvunga.  There are people whom we wanted to be evicted.  That letter was written and taken to the headman. We want the following people to be evicted, Mutshini, Tshinakaho, we also have Edward Mahvunga, Makwarela....

MR NDOU: M-A-K-W-A-R-E-L-A.  What's the surname?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: The surname is Mamegwa.

MR NDOU: M-A-M-E-G-W-A.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: We also have Liswoga Matamela.

MR NDOU: Liswoga is L-I-S-W-O-G-A and Matamela is
M-A-T-A-M-E-L-A.  Ja?

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you want him removed?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Because we want him to be removed because they were alleged to be witches.

CHAIRPERSON: All of them?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, all of them, but I still have some here.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, I know, but I mean all of them that you have mentioned were believed to be witches and that's why their removal was being sought.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, it's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja.

MR NDOU: Any other names?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Petrus Mahvunga.

MR NDOU: Ja.

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Khangari Mabunga.

MR NDOU: Khangari is K-H-A-N-G-A-L-E Mabunga.  Ja, any other person?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: We have Alilali Lafhefho.

MR NDOU: Alilali is A-L-I-L-A-L-I.  Mapepu is spelt L-A-F-H-E-F-H-O.
	Any other person?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Phophi Muravha.

MR NDOU: Popi is P-H-O-P-H-I and Muraba is M-U-R-A-V-H-A.
	Now you say this list comprises of people that were being accused of practising witchcraft, is that right?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, it's correct.

MR NDOU: Now, who drew up this list?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: This list was drafted by us who were appointed to be in the youth congress, so that what we have should have channels.

MR NDOU: Now this list that you're referring to, is it the same list that you took the headman, Adam?

ADV DE JAGER: Could you kindly try - you say "The list was drawn by us.  We were appointed in the youth congress", was he elected as a committee member himself or what was his position actually?  We are talking in general of "we" and "us", we want to be more specific about his role.

MR NDOU: Thank you.  Now this youth congress that you talk about, was it something already formalised, in the sense that you had office bearers?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Yes, there were people who were appointed, who were leading us?

MR NDOU: And were you amongst ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Appointed or elected?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I was one of the members.

CHAIRPERSON: Elected or appointed?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: I was elected to be the assistant.

CHAIRPERSON: Assistant what?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Assistant to the leader of the marshals.

MR NDOU: And as a marshal, what were you expected to do?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: When there are meetings it was expected that there must be order.

MR NDOU: So there were other people ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The marshals saw to the discipline amongst the youth at meetings etc., matches and rallies, correct?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR NDOU: And the other office bearers, are they amongst the applicants here?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: Up to now some are there, but some are not there.

MR NDOU: Now there you were - having drawn up a list which you then took the headman, Adam.  That is the legally appointed headman of the area, is that correct?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: The one we take the list to.

MR NDOU: Now what did he do with the list?

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, just before you proceed on that point, on what basis did you identify these people to be witches?  What was your reason?

DAVID NEMAKHAVANI: All the people in the village, because all the people were gathering, people went on to identify people.  So anybody who knows that this person is suspected to be a witch, anybody was given a chance to say who was a witch, then we'll write the name down.