Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR HLONGWANE: The Inkatha Freedom Party.

MR WILLS: And now you say that at this training you were trained by some white SADF members, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: And that you were trained in the use of AK47's, Uzzi machine guns, shotguns, G3 assault rifles and F1 and RDG5 handgrenades?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: And you say at page 169 of your affidavit - can you look at paragraph 103, page 169?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Have you got that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now what was the purpose of this training?

MR HLONGWANE: It was to protect IFP or areas that were controlled by Chiefs, as well as to kill the ANC.   There would also be an election in 1994.   At that time we were supposed to block the routes along to Tugela and kill those who were going to the election.

MR WILLS: : Now you say that there were certain people in charge of you, the Commandant of the base and I refer you to Page 170 below the list of names - you say that the Commandant of this base was Mr Luthuli.   Is that right?   And then there was a Mr Powell, Mr Philip Powell was second-in-charge.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.   The person in charge was Philip Powell and Mdlanduna was his assistant.

MR WILLS: : Now you say that at the end of this training, you were called the Self Protection Unit.   Is that right?  The SPU.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Now you were addressed at the end of this training by Mr C J Mtetwe.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : We were in fact expecting Chief Mangasuthu Buthelezi but on that morning we were told that he had a trip to undertake, therefore Mr Mtetwe was the one who came to address us in fact.

MR WILLS: : And what did he say to you?

MR HLONGWANE: : He thanked us and said that the chief Minister was also grateful that we were heroes.

MR WILLS: : And what did he say you were going to do?

MR HLONGWANE: : He said we will return to our areas to wait there.  We would be killing the ANC, and at the training we were trained on how to attack and penetrate.   So he was grateful for all of this.

MR WILLS: : Yes, thank you.   Mr Chairperson, I see its 16h00.

CHAIRPERSON: Would this be a convenient time to adjourn for the day, Mr Wills?   Yes, thank you.   We have again come to the end of proceedings.   We will adjourn until tomorrow at 09h30.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION ON 22 APRIL - DAY 10

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning everybody.   Yesterday Mr Hlongwane was or had commenced giving his evidence in chief, and Mr Wills are you ready to proceed with Mr Hlongwane's evidence?

I N HLONGWANE: (s.u.o.)

MR WILLS: : Yes thank you Mr Chairperson and Committee.   Mr Hlongwane can you hear me?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I do.

MR WILLS: : You will recall yesterday we were ... just got to the point where you arrived at eSikhawini.   I'm proceeding for the record, I mean for the benefit of members of the Committee.  I'll be proceeding from page 171 of the record and also at this stage I would just like to re-emphasise, in case there is any misunderstanding, that through an agreement with the Evidence Leader, I have purposely left out incidents which occurred in areas other than Northern Natal as one, the victims of those incidents aren't here and secondly, there has been some complications as regards advising those victims of these hearings;  and it obviously is our intention to lead that evidence at a later and appropriate date.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes we understand that Mr Wills, thank you.

MR WILLS: : Right, your primary purpose initially to - when you were sent to eSikhawini was to guard B B Biela.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : And that you were stationed at his house and you lived with him for a long period of time.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : And then later you moved to Romeo's house.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Now, you were also told by Mdlanduna that sometime a person, whose code name was `No Touch' was going to come and see you.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : And who is this person `No Touch'?

MR HLONGWANE: : Brian Mkhize.

MR WILLS: : And did this person in fact arrive?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes he did arrive.

MR WILLS: : And what did Mdlanduna tell you about this person?

MR HLONGWANE: : Mdlanduna had told me that when Maduna arrived, he will tell me about the activities or about a job about killing people here at eSikhawini, and I would also be under Maduna's command.

MR WILLS: : And essentially that's in fact what happened, not so?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is what happened.

MR WILLS: : Now there has been talk in the earlier evidence from all the three previous Applicants, about various meetings that took place from time-to-time, between sometimes with the local leadership, sometimes with the hierarchy in Ulundi.  Now did you participate in these meetings?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I will be present but my task will be guarding the place or and their cars, but I will not be inside the room where the meeting was held.   I will be just guarding outside.

MR WILLS: : So, I mean in other words you were not an active participant in the meetings.   You trusted that what was happening in the meetings ... well you had no participation in the actual meetings themselves.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : No I did not have a role to play in the meetings as such.

MR WILLS: : What was your role?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was to eliminate IFP enemies.

MR WILLS: : Now moving to paragraph 111, you described in some detail the attack on the IFP Rally and this attack is through your paragraph 111 and 112.   Just to emphasise the gravity of that incident, I see that you say that this fighting essentially went on the whole day.  Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : And you say many people from both the ANC and the IFP were killed and injured on that day?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : You also say that you, yourself, didn't kill anybody that day?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I did not.

MR WILLS: : Now you go on, on paragraph 113 to talk of a meeting at Hlanganane Hall.   This is one of these incidents where you were guarding those persons meeting at the hall.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : But you confirm that paragraph 113 and this for the convenience of the Committee members, is the meeting that's been referred to earlier as regards the instructions to take some... to identify targets.   You confirm at that meeting, to the best of your knowledge, that the persons who were present were B B Biela, Mrs Mbuyazi, Chief Motaba, Kina Mkhize, Romeo Mbamba, Mr Nzuza and Zwele Dlamini?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : You also indicated that at that - from your knowledge of that meeting, that certain people were identified and that those people who were identified to be killed were those people you have listed in paragraph 115, Vincent Mkhwanazi, Sietla Makatini, Jerome Zabani and Themba Mmbasa.

MR HLONGWANE: : That's correct.

MR WILLS: : And you say that after the meeting ended, you recall some discussion and complaint about vehicles.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : What was that complaint?

MR HLONGWANE: : We were complaining that we didn't have a car to use on these attacks on the ANC.

MR WILLS: : Yes and then after the meeting, where did you go?   Can you remember?

MR HLONGWANE: : I don't remember where we went.

MR WILLS: : Well just to refer, you say at the top of page 46 the end of paragraph 116 that the meeting ended and I went back to my post at the Mayor's house.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's how it happened.