Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

MR SANDI: Mr Maqina, the step that you've taken is a very big one, it is a very big step that you've taken.  We have very few people who could take the step that you've taken.
 When they are being accused, when there are some allegations that have been made about them, and have the courage and come up in public and react publicly in respond to those accusations and allegations.  I just have a number of questions that I would like to ask you.
 I will summarise, I will reduce them because of time constraint.  Firstly I would like you to clarify this information in connection with your membership as an AZAPO member.  Did you say you were not, you are not a member of AZAPO, did I get that right?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Yes, I said so.

MR SANDI: Are there any other political parties in which you were involved or for which you have been a member?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: I've never been a member of the PAC, because I was accommodating Africanists and for the method that I was an Africanist, people thought that I was a member of the PAC.

MR SANDI: The picture that you tried to present before us, you mentioned the fact that there was a conflict between AZAPO and UDF.  Did the AZAPO members stay with you and you accepted them?  You also mentioned that the reason for them to be at your place you said you were more orientated towards Black Consciousness and PAC, was that the reason that you accommodated them?  Were they members of those organisations?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Yes.

MR SANDI: Do you have any explanation for the reason for them to run to your place?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: I explained this before.  (tape starts) ... mention this organisation.  I was used by AZAPO mostly.  Maybe I didn't explain this - when AZAPO was founded its organiser Siphaqo Njaka who is presently an ANC member went to my place and I accommodated him.  That might be another reason that the people associated me with AZAPO.
 The third reason I can say this was not a planned arrangement.  I just saved them impulsively.

MR SANDI: I'd like to pose this question so that we will not take a very long time.  ... decided to come and ask for safety at your place?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: No they didn't explain anything to me.  They just saw me assisting some of the children and taking them to hospital and that was the beginning for all of them to go to my place.

MR SANDI: When we had hearings last month here in Port Elizabeth there was one of the witnesses Major General Holomisa, I think you know that he submitted some files to the Truth Commission, and there was a question that was directed to him, which went like this.  And I would like to state that your name had already been mentioned frequently during that period.
 There was a question to ask that was your name there, Mr Holomisa said yes.  Can you explain this?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Mr Chairperson, unfortunately I didn't have those files, I have never seen them before, but I said to you I was never used, I still say I have never been used.  I have never seen the files.  I want to explain this.
 In the first inquest, during Goniwa's inquest I was mentioned as a person who was responsible for some of the killings, but thereafter when investigations were made, the findings were that I was innocent.  I cannot comment about those files, because I didn't see them, but I am not afraid of anything.

MR SANDI: Did you make any public statement when there was this conflict between the two organisations?

MZWANDILE EBENEZER MAQINA: Yes, I did.  I explained that I was not a member of either  of the two.

MR SANDI: Thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: We'd like to thank you very much Mr Maqina.  I'd like to express this - probably the Archbishop would also say the same.
 I just want to add on what Mr Sandi has already said.  I still want to thank you for your bravery and courage to appear before the Commission so that you can give the other side of the story.  You have been courageous because there have already been stories alleging your involvement in all the problems that were prevalent at the time.
 I also heard about the fact that you were mentioned during the death of Goniwe and I was interested because we were arrested and detained together with Goniwe.
 I also attended the inquest, I heard what was said about you.  I was disturbed, because I regarded Matthew as my brother, I still regard him so and as such you say you have nothing to do with his killings.
 You have sworn and you say that in public.  Truly speaking we might not know the truth presently, until we meet the other perpetrators of the violence and the evils that took place at the time.
 Probably they will tell us the reasons and the real information of what happened.  As Reverend Finca has already said we would also encourage that we should reconcile.
 We've heard what you've said.  You have expressed yourself in the public and specifically you communicated directly with the community of Port Elizabeth.  I am certain there will be other talks again about your name, we hope that what you'd hear when the people are thinking over of what has been presenting here today, they would also attend and pay attention to what we have said in connection with reconciliation.
 We hope that one day the truth will come out so that even the community in Port Elizabeth and South Africa as a whole, should reconcile and be healed because they would have got the truth that day.  Thank you very much.