Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-05

CHAIRPERSON: You then went on to advance the second reason that whilst you were in prison you were visited by some IFP leaders who pleaded with you not to implicate leaders of the IFP when applying for amnesty to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and that's why you lied in your application form when you gave information and particulars about how this incident happened and why it happened?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What I want to understand from you is, if you had given the evidence you gave yesterday and today, how would that had impacted negatively on the leaders of the IFP?

MONDLI NGXONGO: If you can please repeat that?

CHAIRPERSON: What I want to know is if you in your application form had given the information that you gave when you were giving evidence yesterday and today, how would that have effected your organisation?

MONDLI NGXONGO: When I made this application it is not clear on my application about the involvement of the leaders of IFP therefore if this application were to pass in any hands of a member of IFP they were going to approve it and they were not going to return it back to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Your application form was not completed with assistance with any member of the IFP?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes and the application form was not dispersed to the offices of the TRC through the assistance of the IFP, is it not so?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So you had no reason to believe that whatever you would have said in your application form would come to the knowledge of the IFP, is it not so?

MONDLI NGXONGO: What I didn't know or what I wasn't certain of is that how safe it was for the application to leave my hands and go straight in the offices of the TRC.  I wasn't certain of the safety of my application.

CHAIRPERSON: Fair enough, my difficulty however is the reasons that you have advanced are not harmonious with the information that you had supplied in your application.  For instance on page 3 of your application form at paragraph 9(a)iv you that the purpose of Mr Mbambo I suppose of going to Nelspruit was unknown to you.  How would that if endangered your life if you had given the truth about that aspect of this mission?

MONDLI NGXONGO: If you could please repeat that question?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have the application before you?  You see paragraph 9{a)iv, that's the last paragraph?  Why was it necessary for your to say you didn't know the reason why Mr Mbambo was going to Nelspruit?

MONDLI NGXONGO: You mean why I said I didn't know why was going to Nelspruit?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, as it stands there in that paragraph and then you proceed to say on the next page that you were not aware of the purpose of the trip and on page 5 you say you only became aware of the purpose of the trip, I'm using your words, 5 minutes before the shooting took place?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes that is correct, this is what I've written.

CHAIRPERSON: The reasons that you have advanced for having lied in your application form in my opinion are not harmonious with what is contained herein.  I mean why should you have lied about that kind of information?

MONDLI NGXONGO: As I have explained yesterday that at this time I was loyal to the IFP or at that time when I wrote this I was still loyal to the IFP.  I thought or I knew that IFP was going to stand by me therefore I didn't want to implicate IFP in any way, I was loyal to them.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the purpose of the plan for amnesty then?  Why did you have to apply for amnesty, what did you hope to achieve?

MONDLI NGXONGO: They promised to help us with the ...[inaudible] there were no people who were standing by us and Mbambo also told me that I must write anything but I mustn't implicate the organisation therefore I wrote whatever on my application and that's why when time goes on I realised that I was supposed to come to the Commission as well because I realised that they came and they told the truth and yet they told me not to and I decided to go ahead.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know whether you understood the ambit of my question, I'm a little troubled nevertheless with what has emanated from your misunderstood question by me.  My question was basically the following.  For what purpose did you lodge your application for amnesty when you did on the 6th December 1996?  Why did you apply for amnesty?

MONDLI NGXONGO: I needed people to forgive me for what I've done.

CHAIRPERSON: Based on the full disclosure of your participation of what you had done?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Could you please repeat?

CHAIRPERSON: You wanted amnesty for what you had done and my question is you obviously were basing that, your application was founded on having to disclose your participation for what you had done?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you agree with me that it didn't attempt to do that?  Your application did not attempt to give any truth about your participation?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And if I understood your evidence yesterday was that you became angry with your organisation after they had stopped visiting you and that's why you decided to apply, do I understand you correctly?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And I asked you a question yesterday when they stopped visiting you - I asked you a question, I don't know, I seem to be corrected by a member of my Committee.  Did you understand what I earlier on said, that you became angry with your organisation when they stopped visiting you and that's when you decided to apply for amnesty?

MONDLI NGXONGO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: However, you went on to say they stopped visiting you in 1998?

MONDLI NGXONGO: At first I thought I've mentioned that they had promised to help me in every way and they came again promising me as well and then they stopped in 1998.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes but the reason why you became disgruntled was when these visits were stopped by your organisation and that only happened in 1998 after you had already applied for amnesty.  Now I find a contradiction in terms there.  How could you have decided to apply because they were no longer visiting you when the visits only stopped in 1998 whereas your application was lodged in December 1996.

MONDLI NGXONGO: In 1996 they promised to help me, 1998 they stopped visiting me.

CHAIRPERSON: So in 1996 when you applied for amnesty, did they say apply for amnesty and lie, we'll nevertheless assist you?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes they promised to help us and they said we must never implicate leaders of the IFP.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the translation is incorrect.  They told us to lie, is that not you were saying Mr Ngxongo ?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes they told us to lie.

CHAIRPERSON: But why in your lie would you not indicate that you were aware of the reason why Mr Teledi had to be killed?
Why in your application form should you not disclose the fact that you were aware of the reason why Mr Teledi had to be killed because he was a political liability to your organisation, why should you not say that?

MONDLI NGXONGO: I was protecting the IFP at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: But surely you knew that the basis for succeeding in an amnesty application is that you must have a political context?

MONDLI NGXONGO: Yes that is correct but I told myself that if it was successful for my application for me to be called before the Commission I was going to tell the truth then because I told myself that the Committee was going to have a question mark.