Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-11

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, the Incident 2 dealt with in your application at page 353 is concerning the murder of Zazi Kuzwayo in Clermont.  You have given your evidence on that previously, in April although you were not cross-examined on it.  That may still happen but there is no need to give any further evidence in chief on that unless the Members of the Committee require it.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think we need to hear it again but of course as you mention, if there is to be any cross-examination of that, that that may be done when it's the cross-examiners' turn to do so.

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  The same goes for Incident 3 which was the attempted murder of Mrs Pam Tshabalala in Clermont, which is at page 357 of your application.
	Incident 4 for which you apply for amnesty is referred to as when you were on patrol duty with Jabulani Makatini in Mpumalanga, do you recall this incident?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do remember this.

MR STEWART: Perhaps before we do get into the details of it, you should explain to the Committee how it came about that you came to work in Mpumalanga and also explain about the appointment certificate.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: To come to work here in Mpumalanga I received an instruction from Madlanduna that now we will actually be deployed at Mpumalanga Police and that way Madlanduna, I don't know how he arranged that but we actually got the police certificates and indeed we did get those police certificates.  They were actually being ...[indistinct].  I myself received Detective Constable and we were actually then deployed in the KZP offices which were here in the court.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, is that at the police station that is very near here?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, however in that time they were actually working in court before the police station was opened.  Here the police station was under Lieutenant Makatini, however we were working with ...[indistinct].  When we were here the work that we were doing was night duty and ...[indistinct] duties.
	However, at times Madlanduna would actually come and take us to do some other jobs because he told us that we mustn't forget that we are still him even if we are working with the police. 	At times we used to go with Madlanduna.

MR STEWART: And was this arrangement whereby you were assigned to the police but you received instructions also from Madlanduna, was that known by superiors in the police?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, they did know that.

MR STEWART: Now you speak about this patrol duty or these drive-by shootings, can you explain that to the Committee?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.  At times we used to patrol at night but then we did not patrol the IFP areas, the areas which were filled with the comrades, strongholds of comrades.  At times we would jump off and sjambock them and hit them with whatever weapon we had.  At times we used to shoot.
	However I wouldn't say that I remember quite clearly when I shot somebody because when you arrive and people are in a group where you actually scatter and run away and then you just shoot everywhere and you don't even see who you're shooting, so I can't quite remember and I can't say if there was somebody who died or who got injured during those shootings.

MR STEWART: Were there many of these incidents?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, there were plenty.

MR STEWART: Are you in a position to estimate how many?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: It's difficult, I can't say because at times we would actually leave to go for patrol and without even chasing people or even shooting people and at times we used to target people and it's difficult to indicate but it's quite a number of times.

MR STEWART: Are you able to recall when this was and which year this took place?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Round about late '87 and '88.

MR STEWART: And what was the situation between the IFP on the one hand and the UDF and the comrades on the other hand in this area?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: During these times I will just talk about the area where I used to reside at too.  During that time when you will leave Three Lines and it is known that you are an IFP member you wouldn't actually go to Mgoi and buy freely because you would return being chased or you would come back being a corpse.
	Even the schools, the children, especially the IFP children couldn't even go to school.  At times they had to be accompanied and usually it went on until we couldn't even accompany those children to go to school because we were also shot.  At times we had to go and meet people from work because when they were on their way back home they used to be killed.  So, the situation was just like that, where you couldn't even go.

MR STEWART: And when you were performing these patrol duties, what was your objective, what were you trying to achieve?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: My aim was to, that in these areas, because the areas that were filled with the comrades, is that the comrades mustn't just sit freely and think that because they are on their stronghold they must just sit freely and just do as they please because their freedom means that it was easy for them to plan attacking us but when we actually tamper with them they wouldn't have enough time, they would actually think and be pre-occupied, think about defending instead of attacking.  	When we were trying to defend, that was giving actually the Inkatha a chance of our organisation actually to be strong because if these comrades beat us it will mean that the IFP is now going down and that will mean that our jobs that we were trained for of protecting Inkatha, we don't know our job and we are not doing our job.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Stewart, if I could just ask a question.
	Mr Khumalo, when you were doing these patrols were you doing them openly as members of the KwaZulu Police?  Were you patrolling in a police vehicle and were any of you in uniform or was it a type of undercover patrol?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: We were using the police cars.  There is a car called NOE20, it was blue and there was another one that was brown and with the number T, it was like a truck.  We used to use police cars but we never wore a uniform and we didn't even hide our faces.

CHAIRPERSON: But those marked police cars, I mean an ordinary citizen, would he know that it was a police car, did it have the police emblem on it?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: No, you would actually know if you know it.  You will see it if you know it but some people didn't know them but other people knew that these are the police cars.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, what colour vehicles did the KwaZulu Police usually use?  It's general knowledge for example that South African Police use yellow vehicles, what colour vehicles did KwaZulu Police use?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Light blue.

MR STEWART: And that was the same colour as that van you spoke of?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interpose Mr Stewart?
	When you committed these drive-by shootings that you've alluded to, was Mr Jabulani Makatini who was a full member of the BSI Police Force present?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, he was around, he is the one who was driving the car.  Nobody else was driving it except him.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did he participate in the so-called drive-by shootings?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: It is difficult to say that because even myself, if it is said that there are the comrades, I don't even look I just shoot, so even himself who was driving, I've never seen him, I'm not sure.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So you were the only ones who would intimidate and harass people you perceived to be UDF members but he would simply be a driver and not participate in the actual harassment or whatever form of intimidation that you ...[indistinct] on the perceived UDF members, is that what you are saying?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I can say that.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, did you receive instructions to undertake these activities?