Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

MR LAX: Mrs Mkhize, there are just a few small questions that need to be asked to follow up on some of the details you've told us.  If I could just take you back to just before your husband was murdered.  You spoke of two different people - they may be the same person - who came to warn you of these attacks, who came to say, "You must get rid of these young boys, otherwise you will be attacked".  Do you know who those people are?  Could you identify them?

WITNESS:   Yes, I can.

MR LAX: Now, you also mentioned that there were cars driving past your house while you were in mourning.  They were firing shots at your house.  Is anyone able to identify those cars in any way?

WITNESS:   No, nobody.  The situation was tense, but we were still preparing for the funeral.  This car came up and down and was shooting, but it also came back at night when we had heard that he was already at the mortuary.  Nobody was outside.  Everybody was inside, but this whole shooting incident happened at night while we were still busy making funeral arrangements.

MR LAX: /You spoke

MR LAX: 17A/17 You spoke about these letters that were written to Mr De Klerk and Mr Vlok, and the tape recordings, and you said the tape recording went to a Mr Phiri.  You mentioned that name.  Could you just explain a little bit about that?  I am not sure what you meant when you said he went to Mr Phiri.

WITNESS:   He went to Phiri to show these letters he had written to De Klerk and Vlok, together with the tape, where he had taped the killing of Mr Mkhize with Pearl Tshabalala, because Phiri is one of those people who were attacked during those days.

MR LAX: Now, you've indicated in your statement that your son who is present here still has nightmares and a difficult time about this incident, and one can understand that.  How is it that we, as the Commission, could try and offer some assistance to you?  What would you want from us in that regard?

WITNESS:   I would like the Commission to assist me because my child keeps on crying - cries quite a lot.  When we ask him what is he crying for he says he is missing his Daddy, and sometimes he says, "Here is my Daddy.  Mommy he is full of blood.  Please take the washing rag and wipe him.  He's full of blood".  I think this thing disturbed him mentally.  One day I phoned Mrs Khuzwayo that she must come and help me because I wanted her to accompany me and find out what's happening.  He keeps on saying, "Here is Daddy.  He is bleeding" at night.  I also phoned his aunt, Dr Vivio (?), who came and assisted me.  He told him that Daddy was gone and you must forget and you mustn't talk about him.  My younger girl, Mabuse, she also used to have that image and that nightmare in the house.  She doesn't want to talk about it.  She doesn't want to talk about her father's death.

MR LAX: /She has also

MR LAX: 17A/21 She has also been severely affected, emotionally.

MR LAX: Has anyone in your family had an opportunity to go for counselling, for help to try and work through these difficult problems?

WITNESS:   No, we've never got any assistance, because in the family we suffered quite a lot.  Even the elderly women really got severe - and we usually just go to Dr Pather (?) if I realise the situation gets worse, but the one who is Johannesburg, my mother-in-law has been sick ever since that occurrence.  She is not well, and his mother eventually died from heart-related problems because of that incident.   The other thing that I would like the Commission to assist me with is that even in that cassette it is said that he wasn't alone, he was with the ZP. Could you please come forward - these ZP come forward?  I would like to know them, because I still have got a wound inside me, which I don't know where it comes from.

MR LAX: One very last question from me before I hand you back to the Chairperson, and that is, there was a case involving Mr Jamile and Mr Msizi Hlophe.  Were they convicted in relation to your husband's murder and sentenced for that murder?

WITNESS:   Msizi was sentenced for killing my husband.  That's what he's been sentenced for and for identifying Mr Khuzwayo, but Jamile was never charged because he's the one who sent Msizi, together with the ZP he had authorised to come and kill my husband.  That's another thing that's worrying me, because how can it happen that a person can hire people to kill other people and then he doesn't get charged for that?  Because they had no intention of killing my husband.  They were hired by this person to kill my husband.  Why wasn't he

MR LAX: /charged with

MR LAX: 17A/25 charged with hiring the people for killing my husband?

MR LAX: Mrs Mkhize, we will do our best to look into this matter and try and get to the bottom of the truth of what happened and maybe that will help you know what happened.  Back to you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Dr Boraine?

DR BORAINE: Mrs Mkhize, just one or two questions to help us to try and do what you have asked us to do, namely to try and find out who was responsible for the death of your husband.  First, could I ask you, the man who brought you the documents and tape recordings, do you know where he is now?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know where he is.  He's in a hiding place, because he's also been harassed, because this issue was in the City Press and on that day the issue was revealed in the City Press, they were shot on that very day and he had been with us during the week, but on the Sunday when this issue was revealed, on the Sunday they attacked his family, so he ran away.  We hid him with all his family and his wife and children.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  I don't want you to tell me his name, because I don't want to put his life in danger, but could you tell me, if we could get his name from you privately, would that be all right?

WITNESS:   Yes, I can do that.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  The second thing is, the documents and the tape recordings, do you still have those?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have that.

DR BORAINE: Do you think we can have a look at those and listen to that later?

WITNESS:   The cassette is in the court.  It's with the investigators of this case.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  We will follow that up.  Just one last

DR BORAINE: /question.  The

DR BORAINE: 17A/29 question.  The man who spoke to you from his cell, that was Mr Hlophe?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is.

DR BORAINE: And you say that you think he is willing to testify before the Commission?

WITNESS:   I got from the newspaper that he is prepared to come forward and speak, but I don't know if he wants to speak in front of the Commission or where he wants to reveal this, but we have read in the newspaper that he's prepared to reveal things.

DR BORAINE: Yes, we will follow that up.  Thank you for your help.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Magwaza.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Mkhize, in your statement here we established that you have reported that there are people who threatening you, giving you death threats, which started in 1992.  Are these death threats still continuing?

WITNESS:   It's always there.  That's why I left Clermont.  Even where I'm staying, I can't even put a telephone because even now we've through - when we heard about this Truth Commission we did get threats with Mrs Khuzwayo, that they said they know we are going to come forward to this Truth Commission.  We got death threats since the establishment of this Truth Commission.  Our lives are in danger, together with Mrs Khuzwayo.  Our lives are in danger.  We are not safe.

DR MAGWAZA: I've also noticed that you've requested that the Commission should give you protection, because your life ... (end of tape)

DR MAGWAZA: 17B/0 Maybe what you could do now is that once we have finished here now, you must contact us about this problem of witness protection.  The last thing I would like to say, as a member of the Rehabilitation and Reparation

DR MAGWAZA: /Committee is that