Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

MICHELLE ASHUA: When I got to the bathroom, I found some blood stained clothing in a laundry basket which consisted of a shirt and a trousers and a towel.  And on the shirt the blood stains appeared on the front of the shirt and the front of the trousers.  And it appeared as if it was like blood, drippings of blood on the clothing and at the back section of the collar of the shirt.

MR PAPIER: Now, Ms Ashua, I would show you a series of four photos, marked G1, G2, G3 and G4 and I would like you to comment as to whether the blood you have now described, was in any way near this vicinity on the photo?   If you look at those photo's, can you describe who you see on that photo, on the photo's?

MICHELLE ASHUA: I see my brother Ashley.

MR PAPIER: And he is laying on the ground there, is that correct?

MICHELLE ASHUA: That is correct.

MR PAPIER: Is that anywhere close to the vicinity that you have now described to this Honourable Committee?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Can you just repeat the question for me please?

MR PAPIER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is he laying in that photograph?

MICHELLE ASHUA: He is laying outside on the back stoep of the house, Your Honour.

JUDGE WILSON: Which number is that, which photo?

MICHELLE ASHUA: G1, G2, G3 and G4.

MR PAPIER: I beg leave to hand it in.  Now, you then took possession of those clothes, is that correct?

MICHELLE ASHUA: That is correct.

MR PAPIER: Now, Mr Ashua, you have been present throughout the proceedings.  How do you feel about the proceedings or about the evidence that you have heard about Ashley Kriel, your brother, thus far?

MICHELLE ASHUA: I feel bitterly disappointed.

MR PAPIER: And why is that?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Because what I have seen on that premises in that house on that day, I had reason to believe that some information is still being withheld from the family.   We are here today at the Truth Commission - in fact we came here with the hope that we were going to hear the truth as to what happened that day and we are still in the dark.  We are still left in the dark.

MR PAPIER: Has the applicant at any stage approached you or other members of the family?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, he didn't.

MR PAPIER: Your mum is not here today?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, she is no longer with us.

MR PAPIER: And when did your mum pass away?

MICHELLE ASHUA: She passed away two years ago.

MR PAPIER: Was any explanation ever given to her?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, she died without knowing the truth.

MR PAPIER: I have no further questions, thank you.

MR PAPIER: .

JUDGE WILSON: Can I just clear up one point please.  You said a moment ago, you took possession of the clothes.  What clothes were those?

MICHELLE ASHUA: The clothes of my late brother, Your Honour, the blood stained clothes.

JUDGE WILSON: The ones you found in the bathroom?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, Your Honour.

JUDGE WILSON: Were those the clothes that he was wearing in this photograph?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, Your Honour.

JUDGE WILSON: Photographs G1 to G4?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, Your Honour.

JUDGE WILSON: Did you recognise the clothes you found in the bathroom?  Did you know them?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Only the shirt, Your Honour.  The fact that we didn't see my brother for two years, we weren't familiar with the clothing that he had worn during that time, but the shirt I remembered, a shirt which my mother bought him.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, do you know the name of the lady that you found in the house?

MICHELLE ASHUA: I can't remember the lady's name, but I am sure we can find out what the name is, Your Honour.

CHAIRPERSON: Was she alone in the house at the time that you were there?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, Your Honour.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether she was there on the occasion when the shooting occurred?

MICHELLE ASHUA: I don't know Your Honour.  At the time when we found her there at the house, apparently the occupants of the house had been detained.

CHAIRPERSON: So you wouldn't know who was in the house at the time of the shooting?

MICHELLE ASHUA: No, Your Honour.

CHAIRPERSON: When you said you were disappointed with these proceedings, were you talking about the manner of these proceedings or are you disappointed with some of the evidence that has been given?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Certainly not with the manner, with the evidence that has been given, Your Honour.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Cook?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Ashua, have you made a statement in 1988 relating to this incident of your brother?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, I did.

UNKNOWN: To whom did you make that statement?

MICHELLE ASHUA: To the Attorneys E. Moosa and Associates.

UNKNOWN: I am going to show you your statement, is this your statement?  Particularly would you look at the signature, is that your signature on both pages?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, this is my signature.

UNKNOWN: If you could just glance through the statement, is that the statement that you have made to Mr Moosa?

MICHELLE ASHUA: If you can just allow me to read through it.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, at this stage I would like to mention that we are trying to make photostat copies, and you would be provided with copies.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: I didn't have any copies. I have just now received a copy.

JUDGE WILSON: It appears the lady sitting next to the witness is also reading the statement and making comments from time to time.

MR PAPIER: As the Honourable Judge pleases, that is the other sister and she is sitting there purely for the purpose of comforting her sister.  May I with your leave request her not to make comments, as the court pleases.

UNKNOWN: Have you finished Ms Ashua?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, thank you.

UNKNOWN: Were you satisfied with Adv Gauntlett and Mr Moosa, the Attorney's handling of the inquest on behalf of the family?

MR PAPIER: I object to the question Honourable Chair.  The witness is being requested to express an opinion with regard to - that requires an in depth legal analysis of the proceedings of the inquest and I submit that they are not in  a position to express an opinion with regard to the performance of their legal representatives at the time.

JUDGE WILSON: She is being asked to say what she felt, not whether he performed competently.

UNKNOWN: Can you answer the question?

MICHELLE ASHUA: Yes, Your Honour, I was satisfied.

UNKNOWN: Isn't it so in that statement, you never made mention of the blood stains in the house?  Isn't it correct?

MICHELLE ASHUA: The blood, it is not mentioned here, but I did mention it to the lawyer, I certainly did.

UNKNOWN: You did mention it where?

MICHELLE ASHUA: To the legal representatives at the time of the inquest.

UNKNOWN: And they didn't put it in the statement?  Is that what you are trying to say?

MICHELLE ASHUA: We certainly did question that matter afterwards.

UNKNOWN: So despite your instructions, they didn't put it in the statement?

MICHELLE ASHUA: It might have been a slip, they might have been at fault, but I certainly did mention it to them.

UNKNOWN: I will also mention it to you, in the inquest it was never raised by Advocate Gauntlett that there was any blood stains in that house.  He is a very accomplished lawyer, why would he have slipped that up?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think that she would be able to answer that.

UNKNOWN: Okay, that is a statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that may be that the statement itself, the documents before him did not contain the information and that is why he probably didn't mention it.  We don't know how these blood stains got there, because she saw the blood stains later that evening.

JUDGE WILSON: The next day.

CHAIRPERSON: The next day rather, we don't know how many people walked in and out of the house when the police arrived there to see the body, when the photographers arrived there, we don't know who went into the house and who didn't.

UNKNOWN: I am only trying to make the comment or a statement that she didn't make mention of the blood stains.