Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-30

KHOZA MGOJO: said, yes, but he didn't know what was going to happen that day, but yes, I was 15 at the time, and he could have also been 15, and I sure knew the difference between right and wrong, and what that was was definitely wrong.

KHOZA MGOJO: Were you attended by the doctors?  Let me say Ryan.  Was Ryan attended by any doctor?

WITNESS:   Yes.  Well, once we had both been comforted by staff at the Lonsdale, yes, paramedics did arrive and stabilised us, and Ryan was taken off to Addington Hospital.  And I was later taken by ambulance to Addington Hospital too, where I waited until late afternoon until - you know, someone basically attended to my wounds and just made sure that I was - you know, I was okay still.  And then I was sent home.

KHOZA MGOJO: And Ryan?  In your statement here you say that Ryan's liver was damaged.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   Well, Ryan lost one of his kidneys, and yes, his liver was damaged, but most importantly I think his soul was at that day ... (incomplete)

KHOZA MGOJO: And is it true too that he lost his speech?

WITNESS:   That he lost his ... (incomplete)

KHOZA MGOJO: Speech.

WITNESS:   He didn't lose his speech.  It's just that Ryan before the incident was like any other 17-year-old guy.  Popular - you know, he was outgoing, friendly, and after that actually happened not just Ryan, but myself, became very withdrawn.  He - you can hear when he speaks to a person he stutters immensely.  He was extremely intelligent at school, and once that actually happened he left school, and I think that intelligence unfortunately was just overwhelmed by emotions.  Unfortunately he wasn't as lucky as I was, he didn't have a family who was there to support him.  He didn't have - you know, he didn't have a family behind him encouraging him all the way.  Although even if you do have a family behind you in a situation like that there's no one who can come to you and say, "I know what you're going through, it's happened to me before, or it's happened to someone I know."  You know, things like that just didn't happen to white people.  White people just aren't victims of violence.  That was the thing.  And Ryan didn't - I don't think Ryan had all the support I had.  And if you see him today he is - it's a pity that he didn't have that support, because he was truly a marvellous person, and he has been - he's just not the person he was.  He's been scarred with a terrible amount of, I think, torment.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where is Ryan now?

WITNESS:   Ryan at the moment - I don't see him often, but when I do see him he's got an odd job, or he's coming and going quite freely.

KHOZA MGOJO: Does he know that you did come here to speak about yourself and about him?

WITNESS:   No, he doesn't know.  I don't think any of the victims know.  I didn't think it was my duty - or I don't think it was my doing to go to those witnesses and say to them, "You should go to the Truth Commission," because it is how they feel.  If they want to come to the Truth Commission and let people know that things like that did happen, and yes, we all know because we saw it in the press, and it was well publicised, and supposedly it was taken to court.  It is their choice if they would like to come here.  If they prefer just to leave it and forget about it, and just not worry about it, then that is their own business.

KHOZA MGOJO: So you chose Ryan because he was your special friend?

WITNESS:   Pardon? You chose Ryan because he was your special friend?  ---   Well, it's just that I knew Ryan.  I didn't know any of the other victims.  The only reason why I knew - I got to know the victims was through seeing them at Westville Prison, or seeing them at the court hearings.

KHOZA MGOJO: Here you say - let me come to you now.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

KHOZA MGOJO: You say that you have never recovered from this incident which happened some time ago when you were 15 years.  Are you getting any treatment?

WITNESS:   Well, after the incident I did receive a little bit of treatment.  I was put onto Prozac, which is a medication to try and basically calm your nerves.  I did see psychologists, I went to doctors, but I felt that none of that really helped, because what I needed to do was I needed to get a grip of the situation and I needed to accept what had happened.  It was no use getting someone to try and talk me around the situation.  I needed to face the situation and say, "Well, it's happened.  There's nothing I can do.  I am just going to have to accept that it happened and get over it."  But you must realise that, although a person can forgive other people what had happened a person will never forget.  I was 15 at the time, I was very young.  I was still moving into my teenage years, I was still learning to become a young adult, and after something like that happens you just - about what, five, six, seven, eight years, you just seem to mature overnight.  You've got to handle a situation which only you can face.  There's no one else that's going to help you face that situation.  It's not like my mum here has died, or my sister has died, where I can actually console with the whole family, and we can get - as a family work together  how we're all going to, you know, work around that.  It's you yourself.  You have stared death in the face.  You cannot just say, "Well, it's happened, and I'm going to forget about it, and let's just be happy."  Because you do try.  You try to do that.  You try and forgive and forget, and luckily I'm a christian, so I have been able to have one counsellor, and I think that counsellor is the only counsel I do need, because if I've got this far I am sure that I don't have to worry about anything coming up because the worst is behind me.  And the biggest thing is that I've accepted what has happened, and I've got on with my life.  I haven't let it - you know, I haven't let it hold me back, or I haven't let it dampen my life in any way.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know if Ryan is getting any treatment?

WITNESS:  No, I don't know.  After the incident Ryan would also say, "Ah, you know, I don't need help.  I'm fine.  You know, I don't care what happened."  And there's no ways a person can say that, that they don't care, because you do care.  Although you try not to care it's going to affect you.  It's - you know, your emotions are shattered.  At night you cannot sleep because you keep imagining that you see things and you hear things.  You walk down the street you can't walk in a - you know, you can't walk without looking behind you, or being suspicious of people.  So no, Ryan doesn't receive - I don't think has ever received any sort of help, no.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.  I am about to finish you.  Aline, you have come to the Truth Commission, what do you want the Truth Commission to do?

WITNESS:   Well, firstly I would like to know from the Commission what is - not from you, because I am sure you won't know, but I'd like to know, the youth that attacked me personally, what has ever happened to him, where is he?  You know it's not a long time ago, the man must be still walking around.  If he is known, although he was a juvenile at the time, you know, I'd just like to know who he is and why he did what he did.  Surely he saw what was going on, and he must have thought, "Wow, you know, this is wrong.  Maybe I shouldn't be getting involved with this."  Did he do it because it was politically motivated, or was it under pressure that he did it, or for what reason?  Surely he had a reason to do what he did?  Yes, the leader had a reason, and we all know the reason, but what was the reason of that man?  Why did he do it?

KHOZA MGOJO: Okay, another thing?  That's all?

WITNESS:   That's it.

KHOZA MGOJO: Well, Aline, thank you very much for your narrative.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Sad as it is, unfortunate as it is, because I don't think that this is what we want to see in our country.