Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-18

MR KROMA: I was part of the Youth Structure in  [indistinct]  the  [indistinct] organisation.  In fact in 1986 I was secretary of the organisation.  The previous year I was a student in  Thobaletu  High School in Fort Beaufort.   I was not able to - to finish schooling precisely because of my  political involvement, involved in the SRC and being organiser of COSAS I had to run away from Ciskei, in fact I had two choices, to stay and continue there and risk -  loosing my life there.
 I chose to come back home, in '85 when I came back, I came back in about July.  I was started - I  started to be involved in the youth.  In '86 I was made secretary of the youth.  On the 12th of June a State of  Emergency was announced, that evening everyone who  was young, who was involved, was picked up.  I was fortunate in this sense that my mom Ms  Madikane who are sitting here now, she came to wake me up and told me that the police were busy picking up people a few houses from where I was staying.  I managed to hide in the wardrobe and one of the police in fact stood leaning against the very same wardrobe that I was in, they were not able to catch me.
 Maybe that is one of the things that made them to deal with me when they got  me was the fact that the police in Oudtshoorn were never able to catch me, in all the race that were there, I was only detained in Uitenhage and I  was detained in Johannesburg.
 It was in the early hours of the morning when the police came and they were not able to find me.  Me and my brother,  [indistinct] and the late Michael Lucas we decided to leave Oudtshoorn.  We went to Uitenhage to my aunt who is staying there and we were in Uitenhage for a few months.  One morning there was - it was about two o'clock in the morning, we just heard the bang in the door and the window pane was going and kicks and so forth.
 In a few minutes the police were in the house, they wanted me firstly.  And they were able to get me.  And Michael was also in, and  Mxolise Madikane  in the house my aunt started to ask what was happening.  She was the first person to be beaten up and so we were taken outside.  Mxolise  and Michael were handcuffed and were put in the back seat of the car with their heads between their knees.  I was given a taste of what I was going to get.  I was thrown on the tar road,  and they started jumping on me.  There is one Coloured chap, I don't know him, he is a policeman, he knew a bit of Xhosa, that guy dealt with me, he did his job.
 And after they did  that, they put me in the boot of the car - it's a small car, it's an Nissan X - it's a very small boot and very-very uncomfortable.  The only friends I had in the boot of the car, were four bottles of beer, well in any event I could do nothing to that beers, because I was handcuffed.
 And so they drove with us, on the way out of the township Kwanobuhle township, they stopped again.  They pulled me out of the boot and the very same show continued - they kicked me, jumping on top of me.  Again I went back to my place - the boot and we drove to Church Street, police station is in Church Street in Uitenhage.
 When we got there, we were made to sit in front of one of the doors there.  And they first took Michael Lucas in, well there was very little that we could hear what was happening inside, the only thing that we could hear was Michael screaming, they dealt with him for  about two hours.  I was sitting on the other side of  the door and  [indistinct]  on the other side.
 They finished with him and they called me in.  When I  went in, I identified Mngoma he was a security policeman and the late Piet Gouws, I am glad he is dead and also Mnyamana they call him  [indistinct] in the township and Kurt Bouman and there was a group  of policeman that I obviously don't know who are from Uitenhage I suppose.  And this Coloured chap was amongst them.
 When I entered the room, still handcuffed they made me to sit - straightened my legs and they brought the SACP flag and they used the flag to tie my legs.  My hands were handcuffed at the back.  So they took off the handcuffs and handcuffed me from the front now.   They produced a khaki T-shirt - no a khaki shirt, not a T-shirt a khaki shirt with black, green and gold  lapels on top.  And they said to me that they are going to deal with me with my own belonging, obviously we had the ANC lapels and the SACP flag here.
 And they brought up the electric - electric wiring, all ten of my fingers were wired with this thing, the live wire the plastic is of, the one that is covering the wire.  And the other one moved right around -  around my body.  Sergeant  Mnyamana task then was to ask me questions, and he - as I was sitting - three of them were sitting on my legs - Piet Gouws is a very big man, he was playing rugby for SWD in the front row, very strong man.  He was sitting on my lap, the Coloured chap  that I am talking about his task was to beat me up and he - he made sure that he was hurting me.
 Time and again he would deal with my private parts, and Mngoma would ask a question, the first  [indistinct] of interrogation was trying to  link Michael who was with me to a case of somebody who  was shot and killed in the township.  I think it's a Mr Blouw if I am not mistaken.  They wanted me to admit and agree that Michael said to us that he was responsible for the shooting of  Mr Blouw.  And in fact it happened up to a position where they wrote down and said that Michael said to us that he was responsible for this and my task then was to sign that statement.
 When they finished with this case of Michael - you should understand I  was secretary of the youth, the whole township was in turmoil.  I was suppose to know of each and every move that is happening in the township  as secretary.  Each and everything that happened in the past years or  so, I  was asked to give account.  The worst part of it was the fact that I  was also involved in the formation of  youth structures in George, in Mossel Bay, in Knysna where we helped with the formation of youth structures, that information was with the hand -  heads of the police.
 So at certain stages I had to give account of  events of George and Mossel Bay too.  Mngoma's task was to ask a question, after giving an answer, if he is not satisfied with my explanation, he would give a mandate for them to fire.  Firing meant to put  on the electric short.  They were - the other wire started coming  from the hands would pull me right up to my shoulders and this one, would take my whole upper body and I  would be shaking like this when they put on the wire.
 They continued in that fashion as I  was screaming, there is a - there is a freedom song that we usually sang that says
 We are going to destroy your body  - the comrades are crying.
 Mngoma was singing that song for me and say that you are crying right now, he was singing the very same song.  They dealt with me for about two hours and so they  left me and then they came to  Mxolise. 
 We were taken to the police cells, we spent a couple of  days in the police cells, I was only in my pyjama bottom a vest on top and stokkies, that's how I spent my time in detention there, not going to wash for all that time until they  brought me to Oudtshoorn, in Oudtshoorn I spent a few days also in the police cells in the very same clothing until they took me home.
 Then it was the last time that I saw Michael, when I was released from detention and he was charged and ultimately hanged, that was the last time I saw him.
 That is how they - they dealt with me, to be more precise is to say that Mngoma's task was to ask me the questions.  Mbondo was the one who was using that khaki T-shirt I was talking about, they would put it in a bucket of water, and tied it around my face, making it impossible for me to breath because the thing was wet.  When I breath it  [indistinct] in - into my nostrils and then usually got water in, so I could not  breath, that was his task.
 Gouws because he was tough and strong, was there to keep me down and Kurt Bouman participated in seeing who  was able to kick me harder than the other one - that is my story.