Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-18

MR SANDI: Could you please switch off please. Mr Williams you are well protected, we have afforded you longer time than any other witness that has come before us up to this stage. We wish that you bear in mind that there are six more witnesses which we still have to take. Could you please in summary form as the person is asking you who is leading you. Given us Human Rights Violations which were done to your by the ANC on those camps and give us your requests to the Commission.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: As I said as a mutineer, we were rounded up and we were put in a concentration camp we were 21, and the ANC had a concentration camp.

MR SANDI: Mr Williams, I am trying to protect you and I am doing my best, could you come to the Human Rights Violations - call them by name so that we can record them and come to the request that you would like to put to the Commission.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: I was in the concentration camp in Paola - where some of the mutineers were put there, for what was so-called rehabilitation - we didn't need rehabilitation, we were well rehabilitated. We were put here to hue, to hue wood and draw water. Simply that. And it was said we are being reorientated, with being given politics - we were just fed food, food that we didn't even trust, some of us didn't want the food and were asked many questions. I was called upon one day and I was told that I was going to be roped up to a tree by "Green" - this "Green" was a chief of staff at Paolo, we knew him to be an informer, former police spy - so-called tender - revolutionary - Green said to me "Listen, for your defiance we are going to rope you up to a tree, and you are going to stay overnight" there. I said "No, it would never happen to me", and he started to box me to hit me, I parried him, the Commissar went in, he said "What are you doing, are you fighting against the Chief of Staff". I said "No, I am not fighting, I am just blocking him, I haven't yet started fighting, if I start fighting, I will hit him very hard. The Commissar said ...(intervention)

MR SANDI: Mr Williams, sorry, I am afraid I think we, we have given to very close to an hour - can we go onto your instructions or your requests to the Commission. What are you asking the Commission to do - in a nutshell, can you say that very, very briefly please?

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: No, excuse me Sir. You see there are more Human Rights abuses that happened to me, these are just petty ones, being roped up to a tree overnight, they are petty - what about refusing to be chained to a tree - I was taken to Quattro.

MR SANDI: Please elaborate on your recent statement after you have testified, there is no problem about that. But can we now ask you, to ask exactly what are you asking the Commission to do? I see in your statement here you are saying the Commission should get the ANC to have you compensated for the years spent in exile preparing to fight for liberation of your country. Is there anything more you want to say in addition to that?

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: That one is not important Sir. What is important is that I will request, because you see, when I am here, I am not simply here.

MR SANDI: You also say in your statement you tried to get what you call "demobilisation packages" at the ANC offices but nobody seems to what to cooperate with you in regard to that. Is there anything more you want to say in addition to that.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: Yes.

MR SANDI: In the interest of time, I must emphasise this - in the interest of time.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: What I would like to request the Commission to do for the sake of the people of South Africa, especially for the sake of those fathers and mothers who had their children killed in exile without any reason - that the African National Congress if it's prepared to face the truth, to cleanse itself it should come up at least with all the names who died in exile and along each name an explanation be attached or be given that this one died of malaria at such and such an hour. This one died at the hands of UNITA, at such and such an hour. This one died because he was resisting the ANC security or whatever, or this one died because the Security killed him - for this reason or that reason. Or this one committed suicide.

MR SANDI: OK. The long and the short of it is as I understand you is that the ANC should provide a list of names of all the people who died in exile in whatever circumstances, whatever the circumstances may have been. That is what you are saying in a nutshell.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: Yes. that's right. To the public, to the public - that is my request.

MR SANDI: Any further request.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: Another request.

MR SANDI: When I ask you any further request, I am not asking you to suck them out of your thumbs, if you think you have exhausted your list of requests - you can simply ask me - hand me over to the Chairperson.

TEDDY EDWARD MWASE WILLIAMS: Another request is that the African National Congress or rather the present government because now I think it is now the question of the present government, including all the parties - they should give reason why I cannot be given the packages like all other MK Soldiers, APLA Soldiers and their - I as an individual.

MR SANDI: OK. We have noted that. I am now handing over back to the Chairperson. Thank you Mr Williams.