Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1995-04-25

DR BORAINE: Anton Fransch -  I beg your pardon Mark Eugene Fransch.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: We want to welcome you very warmly to the Commission and express our appreciation to you for your readiness and willingness to share your story and your grief with us today.
 You are accompanied by Basil Snayer who is a neighbour I think, or certainly was and will be - and was a witness to the story that you will tell and he will tell his story as well about your brother.  You are Mr Snayer.

MR SNAYER: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Mark Fransch would you please stand. I am going to ask you to take the oath.
MARK EUGENE FRANSCH Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: Basil Snayer in the same way I would like to ask you please to take the oath.
MARK SNAYER Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE: I'd like to welcome those who have accompanied you as well to the witness stand.  Now  what we tried to do is to ask one of the Commissioners to assist you in telling the story in asking questions - just to - in order to help you and to get - give us maximum information.
 On this occasion I will be doing that and I want to stress that it's your story and your witness and all I am trying to do is to help you to tell that whole story, not put words in your mouth and not try to tell you how you should tell the story.
 So if I do that, you just stop me and we'll carry on.  So again warm welcome, I hope you feel as relaxed as you can under the circumstances, you  can let your shoulders droop if you like and just feel as though you are amongst friends which I hope you feel that you are.

DR BORAINE: Now I wonder if we could begin by your telling the Commission something of your own background, your family, where you come from, something about your parents, your family, yourself.  And then we can - before   we go on to the very tragic story that will unfold.  Is that all right, fine.

MR FRANSCH: I am Mark of course, this is Donovan and Brian next to me.

DR BORAINE: Are  they your brothers?

MR FRANSCH: Ja they all my brothers.

DR BORAINE: Well a very special word of welcome to you both, thank you.

MR FRANSCH: We come from Bonteheuwel and there is where Anton also stayed before he - he actually went away and my mother, she is also - she is still alive, she stays in Mitchell's Plain now and she could not make it to be there, because it's not good for her health.

DR BORAINE: Sure, does she know that you are here today?

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Fine.

MR FRANSCH: And I am actually handling everything.

DR BORAINE: Fine, thank you.  And are you working at the moment?

MR FRANSCH: Yes I am working,  I am a cabinet maker by trade, my own business.

DR BORAINE: Now you have several brothers obviously.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Anton was one of them, where did he come in the family?

MR FRANSCH: He was the second youngest.

DR BORAINE: Okay.

MR FRANSCH: In the family.

DR BORAINE: Tell us a little bit about him, I mean anything you like.

MR FRANSCH: To tell you the honest truth he was a committed member of the ANC and no - no matter who tried to stop him, he just went ahead and  through that he - he was wanted by the police and he was Police File and he was still - he was standing next to me that evening he was on Police File, so they said he skipped the country, he is wanted.  But he was standing next to me.

DR BORAINE: You watched the program together.

MR FRANSCH: Yes and so he felt the need to actually go away.

DR BORAINE: Okay.

MR FRANSCH: He went away for something like about two years.

DR BORAINE: Any idea where he went to?

MR FRANSCH: I wouldn't know.

DR BORAINE: He - but he was away from home?

MR FRANSCH: He was away from home, and like when he came back I believe my mother saw him and the last time she actually saw him, he was very sick and he assured her that what he is actually doing is to actually help her as well.

DR BORAINE: Okay, so he was very much involved in the struggle for freedom or justice is how he would express that.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Ja okay.  Now let's get on to the year 1989.  Tell us what you know or what you remember or what you heard about that night.

MR FRANSCH: What I know is I heard over the radio that a terrorist is busy fighting with the police, the morning when I woke up and I went to work - I didn't even know it was him, and about ten o'clock the morning, a newspaper phoned me to tell me that Anton's dead.  I didn't even hear from the police that he is dead, and I mean that's very upsetting to hear from a newspaper that your brother is killed.

DR BORAINE: Ja.

MR FRANSCH: And we went to the house, that same day and I saw parts of his flesh against the wall, his hair was - part of his hair was also against the wall and what I've heard is that they said they going to kill him he must come out the dog, you know you must come out, you dog.  I mean how inhuman can a person be to actually - there was many ways they could have taken, got him out - out there without killing him.  I mean he - you got means and ways to do that as well.

DR BORAINE: Ja.

MR FRANSCH: I mean the whole part of his body was blown away.

DR BORAINE: That must have been a very grim experience for you I am sorry.  Just take your time there is no hurry.   Mark can you remember where that was, where did the actual killing take place.

MR FRANSCH: It was in Crawford.

DR BORAINE: Okay.

MR FRANSCH: In Church Street.

DR BORAINE: Church Street and that was a normal house was it.

MR FRANSCH: It was a normal double-storey house.

DR BORAINE: Okay, did he live there on his own or was he staying with - with people?

MR FRANSCH: He was staying with people there.

DR BORAINE: Okay, did - what happened to them, do you know?

MR FRANSCH: They were in the house still.

DR BORAINE: I see.

MR FRANSCH: And he didn't worry with them, I believe they were in the house.

DR BORAINE: Okay, I see but you know when the attack took place and the shots were fired and the mortars and all sorts of things that happened that night, what happened to the family who - with whom he was staying were they quite safe?

MR FRANSCH: They were quite safe.

DR BORAINE: So it's just the one room.

MR FRANSCH: No it's all the rooms at the bottom.

DR BORAINE: Were flattened?

MR FRANSCH: Ja of the flat.

DR BORAINE: Okay, tell me your brother, how old was he when he died?

MR FRANSCH: He was - how old - he was 20 years old.

DR BORAINE: 20 Years old.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Okay, now you say that it wasn't the case of - from what you could see that he was merely shot, but something much-much more powerful most of brought about his death.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Ja, did there - was there an inquest at all about your - your brother's fatal killing.

MR FRANSCH: Sorry.

DR BORAINE: Was there an inquest or a Court case about his death?

MR FRANSCH: Yes there was an inquest about his death.

DR BORAINE: What was the cause of death, I mean did they establish that?

MR FRANSCH: They didn't establish it.

DR BORAINE: Okay, what was the conclusion, what - what decision did the Court find.

MR FRANSCH: I believe they said he bombed himself.

DR BORAINE: He bombed himself, okay.  So the decision of the Court was that your brother committed suicide.

MR FRANSCH: Yes.

DR BORAINE: Okay, were you represented with lawyers?

MR FRANSCH: Only the lawyer was there at the inquest, my mother could not make it to be there, because she was very-very sick.

DR BORAINE: Sure.

MR FRANSCH: I wanted to actually represent him as well, but they did not allow that.

DR BORAINE: I see, so only your lawyer was there and no members of the family?

MR FRANSCH: No member of the family.

DR BORAINE: I see, can you remember the name of the lawyer?

MR FRANSCH: It was Mr Mohammed.

DR BORAINE: Mr Mohammed okay and the practice, the lawyer was that Moosa.

MR FRANSCH: E Moosa and Associates.