Human Rights Violation Hearings — Alexandra — 1996-10-28

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: It is difficult to explain before the Commission because as a leader I wouldn't know exactly as to how old were they because there were so many. Only the relatives can know about their ages.  Some of them I could just estimate and say, well like one of them Makateni (indistinct) organisation of (indistinct) so his sons, I know them.  This Makateni I know.  So the others I may not be able to know.  But all I know again about that Banda was shot dead while he was from work at Third Avenue and (indistinct) at 9th Avenue.  The magistrate in turn ... in a letter which was written by Mr Huyzen the attorney, he says here in the letter
"Permission is hereby granted in terms of the authorisation given to me by the Honourable Minister of Law and Order as contained in GN 582
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dated 27 March 1986 to hold a gathering at the Alexandra cemetery for the burial of the undermentioned deceased on Saturday 17 May 1988 at times set out below".
Now it reads as follows, the time which was scheduled by the government now to us to tell us how should we bury our dead ones.  He said that Banda, his funeral service will start at half past one and to half past two.  Colin Dothli, his service will start at two o'clock to three o'clock.  Elias Nduli was scheduled to be buried at half past two to half past three.  Woes Dube from three to four.  Saphinium Dagane half past three to half past four.  Albion Makateni two o'clock to three o'clock.  Bele Sangwane, half past two to half past three.  Jacob Pefadu three o'clock to four o'clock.  And we were told that only the ordained ministers will perform on that service.  And the restrictions which were given to us is that the bodies will not be carried on the shoulders but into the hearse.  People were angry by that time.  Such restrictions they wouldn't stand for them.  They couldn't stand definitely for them and we couldn't do nothing even if those restrictions were given to us to conduct them, we couldn't do nothing.  The ministers which were scheduled to conduct the service, it was Reverend Madisha, Reverend A Matuma, Reverend M M Dhlamini, Reverend J L Makweba, Reverend S Mavula, Reverend Ganagomo, Reverend N A Ntombeni, Reverend Langa.  I was scheduled to be an MC on the (indistinct).  Another funeral which we - in fact let me just finish up again this part.  How we buried these people we went, I personally went with the other comrades from ACO to Puni's Undertakers at Lenasia.  We asked them for full funeral service.  If those people are here I would
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like to thank them very much.  Those are the people which did the great job for our people. It was very fine what they did, they gave us free of charge full service of the whole service.  Not only in this funeral.  In the following mass funerals that we had which is ....

MS MKHIZE: Maybe to help you in order to gain, go back to the focus, I would like you to explain as to what happened in 1991 where you stated that the way a number of people who were harassed during the time.

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: Yes, I am going to that incident in fact.  I don't know whether these people came before the Commission but I also informed that I was coming to give a statement that they should also come and give their evidence, if possible.  At First Avenue it was a night vigil.  In this night vigil people which were killed, it is Leon Pamapanga from 154 Second Street, Alexandra, Eric Jawa from number 14 First Avenue, Mike Mlovo 34 Fifth Avenue, Cilo Pering 57 20th Avenue, Sipho Gadebe 134 Fifth Avenue, Sidwell Jantjie 130 16th Avenue.  Now his body was transferred to East London.  There was also a body that we identified at the government mortuary as I was appointed to escort the bereaved one to go and identify their dead ones.  Bodies which were picked up out at Alexandra it was Jacob Dhlamini and Timot Mabundla, Zwelitsha Mbumka, Ntandi Sizwe Napai, Dimonti Ramagula.  We buried them.  I had this lady which was now here, she said that there are some bodies - her child was killed and not been found.  I got a list of bodies which I took from there, the government mortuary, which people I couldn't get them to go and identify their bodies.  Probably it was because it was difficult to identify your body, the bodies there they were dismembered, you couldn't -ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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they were beyond identification.  Some of them they were packed in a big hall up to a certain - but bodies from Alexandra which were not identified, the names I don't have them but the body numbers I have got them.  601, body number 601 it was left there unidentified.

MS MKHIZE: We would like to thank you.   However details about the numbers we will be able to get it from the papers before you and I would like to, however, take you back to the Chairperson so that the other Commissioners might be able to pose questions about what happened at the time.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Father, could I ask you, as someone who administered this so much, could you explain to us what a night vigil was.

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: At that time it was now very much difficult for us to attend night vigils because why we would become victims of police.  Some of these bodies, when there is a night vigil, they paint black their faces.  You can only see them by their eyes that this is a white man.  That is what was happening in this place.  It was really hell by that time.  I am sorry to put it that - but it was bad.  I really request the TRC to call upon these people which were doing all this mess here, let them come here, let that Minister of Law and Order come here and come and tell you why he was refusing to give our people permission to bury their dead ones.   It is not a privilege, it is a right to bury our dead.

MR LEWIN: Could you explain, what seems to have happened is that the people were shot in the streets by the police.  The families would then organise a night vigil and then they would be attacked.  The families themselves would be
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attacked at the vigil and more people would then be killed.  Is that correct?

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: Everyone knows that.  Yes, that is true, they were attacked.  Normally in most night vigils people were attacked.

DR RANDERA: Father you have said several times this afternoon that you want these people to come forward.  Now when you say these people are you only referring to the police and army or are there other incidences that took place in Alex where human rights violations took place and you are also asking those people to come forward.

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: I think I have mentioned that the Chief Magistrate at Randburg also abused our human rights by refusing us to bury our dead ones in a mass funeral.  Those are our rights and the police as well which killed these people.  All those people, those even which I didn't mention them, I do not know of them, they should come up and be honest and come in front of you.

DR RANDERA: So you are primarily asking the police to come forward.

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: Those which were involved in doing all this to us.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Father.

YASMINE SOOKA: Father I have one question.  Were mass burials also not the way that people used in those days to meet with each other and to politicise each other?  Was mass funerals, mass burials and night vigils not a mechanism used for mobilising support in the community as well?

SNOEKIE MZAMBU: May you please repeat your question.

YASMINE SOOKA: What I am saying is that in those days there was a state of emergency and often the only way people could
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meet freely together was either at a night vigil or at a mass burial. Now was that not a mechanism used by the community to get together to mobilise each other and to politicise each other?