Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-25

MR BERGER: Besides the meeting you have spoken about on the 10th June as well as the meeting in the stadium on the 17th June immediately before the attack are you saying there were no other meetings at the hostel prior to the attack where an attack or a possible attack was discussed?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: There were meetings before the attack, yes there were meetings.

MR BERGER: But you never attended any?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Some of the meetings I did attend and some not.

MR BERGER: Did you attend a meeting on the Sunday before the attack, that's the 14th June?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And Mr Themba Khosa addressed that meeting as well, is that right?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And he said at that meeting if people come and attack you, you are supposed to fight back and kill them?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I did not hear that part but I do know that the people from Boipatong wanted to come to the hostel to attack us.  The police stopped that because when we heard of a possible attack from the township we went out and we met at the police at the robots.  They stopped us, we went back.

MR BERGER: You are talking about an incident which took place after the attack, am I right?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: I am talking about a meeting on the Sunday before the attack, the one where Themba Khosa was also present, about three days before the attack.  What did Themba Khosa say at that meeting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember what Themba Khosa said but he was addressing the meeting though.

MR BERGER: What about the meeting two weeks before the attack on the 3rd June 1992, did you attend that meeting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember the date but I was attending the meetings.  No I do not remember the dates, I did attend some meetings.

MR BERGER: I'm talking now about two weeks before the attack.  At that meeting Themba Khosa was also present, am I correct?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I remember the meeting that was held on the 10th, this is the meeting I attended and I still remember.

MR BERGER: So you don't remember what happened at the meeting of the 3rd June 1992?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not remember.

MR BERGER: And so you wouldn't be able to dispute whether Themba Khosa was present at that meeting as well?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I would not dispute that.

MR BERGER: You were not employed whilst living in the hostel?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Were any of your friends employed whilst living in the hostel?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR BERGER: Did you know Jabogo Magubane?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: You were friendly with him before the attack?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: In fact you were all part of the same circle, you Jabogo, Timothy, Dondo?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes we all stayed in one room.

MR BERGER: And you never went out stealing to get money and to get stuff to survive?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR BERGER: The two army vehicles that you saw driving along the main road from the direction of Vanderbijlpark, remember?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes.

MR BERGER: You say at some point along that main road they turned to face your group as you were congregating in the veld outside Boipatong, this is now after the attack?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes.

MR BERGER: And they shone their lights on y our group?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: How did they try to stop you from crossing the road or whatever?

MR BERGER: The cars parked exactly where we were supposed to cross.  Themba Mabote then shot at them and they moved through the point where we were supposed to cross and we managed then to cross to Kwamadala Hostel.

MR BERGER: So the only thing that the soldiers did you stop you was to park in front of you, face you and shine their lights at you?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: How many shots did Themba Mabote fire at the soldiers?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Many times.

MR BERGER: Approximately?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: It was a series of gunfire, I would not be in a position to count or estimate as to how many times he shot.  What I remember he had an AK47 rifle in his possession.

MR BERGER: So he fired an AK47 at the military vehicles?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.  I do not know whether he hit them or the bullets just went - just passed by but he was shooting in their direction.

MR BERGER: And was he the only member of the attackers who shot at the military?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I do not know whether he was the only one who shot but as I've said there was a series of gunfire.

MR BERGER: He was the only one you saw shooting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: You didn't see anyone else shooting?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Except in the township, inside the township I saw Damara and Mkhize shooting.

MR BERGER: Yes, now I'm talking about at that point in time in the veld outside Boipatong.  You didn't see anyone other than Themba Mabote shooting at the military?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And the military vehicles then turned to face Sebokeng and drove away?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: They didn't stop at the robots?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: They were stopping at the robots.  The other one was in the front, the other ...[indistinct] and they drove in a convoy to Sebokeng.

MR BERGER: As you were crossing the road they drove beyond the robots towards Sebokeng?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And so then it was easy for you to return to the hostel because there were no soldiers in your way and you re-entered through the main gate?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: You say it's not correct that Casspirs transported some of the attackers to Boipatong and assisted with transporting the loot from Boipatong back to Kwamadala, that is not correct?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Were you a friend of Victor ...[indistinct]

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: No.

MR BERGER: But you know he was called the Vaal Monster?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Prince Vanana Zulu, he was the most senior IFP leader in the hostel, would you agree with that?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: His word was law in the hostel?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: He was the leader of the Indunas.

MR BERGER: Nothing happened in the hostel without his permission, am I right?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: There were many leaders in Kwamadala Hostel.

MR BERGER: Was Prince Vanana Zulu the most important leader at Kwamadala Hostel, yes or no?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: Yes he was most honoured.

MR BERGER: And if he said something should happen then it happened, correct?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: He used to address meetings of the elderly people and there was also a separate meeting of the youth.  Mr Buthelezi conducted the meetings that included the youth.  He chaired the meetings of the elderly people.

MR BERGER: I'm asking you a simple question, if Mtwana Zulu said that something should happen, he gave an order in the hostel, that order was carried out, am I right?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: If he gave an order and said something should not happen, that order was obeyed and it did not happen.

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Prior to June 1992 when was the last time that Prince Vanana Zulu had gone home on leave?

SONNY MICHAEL MKWANAZI: I only noticed that he was not present within the hostel, it was after the attack when I saw him getting out of a taxi.  When did he come back from KwaZulu Natal, I do not know.

MR BERGER: When was the time before this that Prince Vanana Zulu had taken leave, do you know?