Special Hearings — Armed Forces Hearings — 1997-10-08

JOHAN LODEWYK MEIRING: Chairperson, with all honesty no, I do not know.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I just want to then in conclusion say there is very little that the Commission as the Commission can do to assure persons of its commitment to even handedness.   Yesterday you may have heard that we were at the receiving end of precisely the same tenner of perception from members of APLA, that the TRC is on a witch hunt, it is seeking to criminalise acts which they were genuinely believing were acts in furtherance of a just cause, but central to their submissions was the fact that they have no confidence in the TRC.
 You have not gone that far, you have indicated what you conceded to say it is an inherent distrust.  I will want to say for purposes of today's record that there is no attempt by the Commission to call upon any people to apologise for things that they did if it is their view and perception that they did them for a good cause.
 Secondly the Commission seeks to say that we were appointed in a belief that we are men and women of integrity.  That is a difficult thing to defend, one's integrity, you can only state it.  And whilst I am very sad that it is clear from what you said, there is an inherent distrust of the TRC process in the members of the South African Defence Force, we can only say that we will try our best. 
 If we put questions that are vigorous and robust, if as I indicated to you for instance, that there are people who would regard the sort of answer that you gave to a specific question, with a pinch of salt, it is not in any way an indication that we have predetermined issues that we have a witch hunt for specific institutions.
 It is all in an endeavour maybe a lame endeavour, to arrive at a balanced view.  I think part of these hearings, part of the reason that we have these hearings was because we felt that people were in the armed forces, whether statutory or non-statutory, have not had an opportunity to give a perspective.  Their perspective as people in the armed forces.  So to the extent that you have not only come but have stayed even beyond the hours that you were supposed to be here, you have assisted us and I need to record my personal and sincere appreciation for that effort.
 I also have to thank you for having indicated that some questions should be put and you will do your best to reply at them within the next 30 day period.
 I would only hope that since you represent the future, certainly in the armed forces, in so far as you have transcended the barrier of the past and you are part of the future, you should be one person that should make sure that all of the things that were contained in the Steyn report, remain only rumours and allegations certainly for the future because this Commission would have been in vain if any of the things that are mentioned as allegations, were to come about in the future and you are part of that future, and a very central figure in that future because you are at the Head of the armed forces.
 I believe that subject only to those questions which would be put to you and which you have indicated you will reply to, we should bring the proceedings today to an end, but your legal representative indicates that he possibly needs to respond or you need to respond to the remarks that I have made.

JOHAN LODEWYK MEIRING: Chairperson, thank you, I am sure my legal representative would like to say something, but can I just enhance what you've said by looking at the future, by putting on the record today again, the submission I made to this Commission on behalf of the South African National Defence Force, that expressed the with of the reconciliation part of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, indicating the road forward, indicating the way we came being integrated into a new South African National Defence Force, and perhaps your remarks should be mirrored against that specific submission which we made some time ago.
 Thank you very much.

MR VON LIERES: Mr Chairman, I am sure that we have all been uplifted by the assurance of even handedness which you have just expressed so very thoughtfully and speaking for myself and also on behalf of my client, I accept those assurances wholeheartedly.
 I must however, draw that to your attention which I believe requires your personal attention.  I have listened with some amazement and a great deal of concern at the utterances of the member of the Commission  My Lyster, who attacked the credibility of my client, General Meiring by describing his answers as  being entirely disingenuous. 
 Now Mr Chairman, it is a normal principle of fairness in any proceeding that if a person wishes to make such a finding, that he provides the witness with a basis on which he seeks to make such a finding.  I find it distasteful to have to mention this to you, but I do believe that the attack by Mr Lyster in these circumstances on my client, were not justified.  I would just like to place that on record, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lyster do you want to reply?

MR LYSTER: Yes, sorry the remark was not aimed at General Meiring at all, and I should have explained when I made the remark, that it was with certain of the, some of the material contained in the reply which General Meiring himself did not prepare, that he merely facilitated the responses to, so there was no personal slight intended at all on General Meiring.

MR VON LIERES: Thank you for that assurance Mr Chairman, through you, I just want to draw the member's attention to the fact that he needn't refer to the answers contained in the submission, but he addressed General Meiring and he said I find most of the answers you have given, highly disingenuous, so that is what I found of some concern, but I accept Mr Lyster's assurances that he withdraws any imputation of any incredibility on behalf of my client, and on that basis, I will let the matter rest, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: And on that withdrawal note, I adjourn this proceedings.

COMMISSION ADJOURNS: .