Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-30

CHAIRPERSON: What's your problem Mr Majola?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I have a problem.  I did tell you before that I received an instruction from my commander, Sugar.  Now I don't know what to answer the following question because I told you I received my instructions from Sugar.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I think the questions are very simple.  Where did you get the instruction to kill Mrs Shongwe or from whom did you get that instruction?  If you can't answer the question say so.

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It's not that I'm not able to.

CHAIRPERSON: Well then answer it please.

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I don't remember.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't remember where you got an instruction to kill somebody, is that what you're saying?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We received the instruction from Sugar.

CHAIRPERSON: To kill Mrs Shongwe?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I can say that.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he with you when you went to Bobolina's house?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes he was with us.

CHAIRPERSON: And he decided to kill the mother?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: I thought in your evidence in chief you said you got instructions from Nkobogazi.  Would you explain this?

CHAIRPERSON: Be fair to him Mr Mapoma, he said that person suggested and everybody agreed and that person went into the house and he heard two shots.  I think I'm right by that.

MR MAPOMA: Yes sir, thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Well you - what was that person's name?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Nkobogazi.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't you say a little earlier that Nkobogazi suggested that since seeing you couldn't find the original person that you targeted that Mrs Shongwe should be killed?  Everybody agreed and he went into the house and you heard two shots?

MR PATEL: With respect Mr Chairman, the evidence in chief was that when he got to the house after the meeting, this is the house where the meeting had been held, it is at this stage that the instruction was given by Mr Nkobogazi.  When they went to the house of Mrs Zini Shongwe it was somebody else that was ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Well let me clear that up.
	You remember you testified that when you went there looking for Bobolina you couldn't find him do you remember?  Just yes or no.

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We were in the yard.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when you go to a house normally you go into a yard.  I'm asking you when you got to that house and looked for Bobolina, you couldn't find him.  That's you and your colleagues.  Do you remember saying so?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: When that was discovered that he wasn't there it was suggested that Mrs Shongwe get killed, not so?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Who made that suggestion?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was Sugar.

CHAIRPERSON: And everybody agreed and Sugar went into the house and you heard two shots?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did he tell - why did you agree that Mrs Shongwe should be killed.  What did she do?  How did she lead Zwane to his death because that was the purpose of your trip to go sort out the person you suspected of leading Zwane to his death.  How did Mrs Shongwe get involved in that, how was she linked to the death of Zwane?  Can you answer that?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was decided that if we can't get hold of Bobolina it's best that we kill his mother.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, that was decided there when you discovered Bobolina couldn't be found, isn't it?  I'm asking you why did you agree to it?  Have you got a reason or did you just agree with it because you were in the company?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes I went along with it because there was absolutely nothing I could do if the commander had decided on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Mapoma.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you sir.  Was Mrs Shongwe alone at her house?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I do not know because I never go inside, I was standing outside the house.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you.  No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Patel have you got any more questions?

MR PATEL: Just for clarity, Mr Nkobogazi, who is he?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I do not know his name, he was an Inkatha chairperson.  His surname was Nkobogazi, I do not know his first name.

MR PATEL: Did he accompany - how many people went to the house of Mrs Shongwe?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: It was a large group.

MR PATEL: Was Mr Nkobogazi part of that group?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: He wasn't.

MR PATEL: The large group that went to the house, what was the armour, what weapons were taken with?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Two of them had guns and we had an assortment of weapons, pangas.

MR PATEL: Apart from that was there any other material?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I think that was about all, I did not see the hand grenades but I did hear some explosion at some stage.

MR PATEL: I have no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PATEL

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Majola, tell me would Mrs Shongwe was she a member of the IFP or the Black Cats or the ANC?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: She was a member of the ANC.

ADV BOSMAN: How did you know this?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I stayed close to her place so I knew it.

ADV BOSMAN: Alright, let's take the unknown person who was attacked when you were a member of the ANC.  Did you know to which political party this person belonged?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: The unknown man that we chased was an IFP member.

ADV BOSMAN: How did you know that?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Excuse?

ADV BOSMAN: How did you know he was a member of the IFP?  You didn't know the man, is that right?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We knew him to be a member of the ANC.

ADV BOSMAN: But I don't understand, you say you did not know the man?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Are you referring to the man that we chased whilst we were still IPF members?

CHAIRPERSON: In 1991 I think you were still an IFP member.  You say you attempted to murder an unknown black male, sounds like a police docket, how are you able to say what his political affiliations are if you didn't know who he was?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We got the ...[indistinct] the two that we chased away.  I don't understand your question could you repeat it?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Majola, what don't you understand.  Exactly what don't you understand?  The question is simple.  If you didn't know the man how do you know what political affiliations he had and then it follows we're going to ask you why did you attempt to kill him?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I did not know where he stayed but Chris said we should destroy anything in our path.

ADV BOSMAN: The question is how did you know to which political organisation he belonged?

CHAIRPERSON: Isn't it true you didn't know?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes, we were destroying anything and everything in our path regardless of political affiliation because when we met this man one of our members said here are the others, here are some of the members of the political group and we saw them running away.

CHAIRPERSON: Look, you're confusing me now.  I don't know who is more confused, you or me.  Was your order now to destroy anything in your path irrespective of political affiliations, was that your new order now?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Anyone who was not one of our members we had to destroy or attack.

ADV BOSMAN: How big is this Wesselton township area, how many people live there more or less?  Do you have any idea, hundreds of people, thousands of people?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Thousands but there are different sections.

ADV BOSMAN: Now how do you know who are IFP and who are ANC and who don't belong perhaps to any organisation?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: We knew each other as members of the IFP and if you were not in our group we assumed that you belonged to the other groups.

ADV SANDI: Do you perhaps know how old you are Mr Majola?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: I'm twenty eight years old.

ADV SANDI: Do you have any regrets about having done these things?

DAVID ELVIS MAJOLA: Yes that is so.