Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MS MKHIZE: We thank you very much Mr Ncube.  Can we please have some silence so that we are able to communicate clearly with Mr Ncube.  Mr Ncube we thank you very much.  Your story is quite a moving one.  I would like to ask you a few questions just to clarify a few things before your lawyer can add on any information.  I will ask you to tell us briefly it seems you were harassed from 1984 as you have mentioned.  In 1984 were you in any leadership position?
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 NCUBE

MR NCUBE: I was the organiser of the ANC. I am the first one who started Ntombeka Section with my son Jackie.

MS MKHIZE: At that time when you were an organiser were you armed or how did you do your organisation?  What were you expected to do?

MR NCUBE: According to the struggle I was to make people aware of the present situation and to ...(tape ends).

MS MKHIZE: For how long were you detained in 1984?

MR NCUBE: They only kept me for a week and released me and then they detained me again in 1986.

MS MKHIZE: When you were detained in 1986 did they torture you or assault you and what were they asking you about?

MR NCUBE: They were asking me as you said that people will govern here what makes you say that?  I say that because even you, deep down in your heart, you are the witnesses of the fact that people shall govern.  It is something that we established on the 25th of May in Cape Town when we adopted the Freedom Charter.  It will never change, we will govern this country whether you like it or not.

MS MKHIZE: Coming to 1985 you say that they detained you again in that year.  Other than asking you did they do anything like torturing you?

MR NCUBE: No they never tortured me, they just took me and dropped me at Olifantsfontein and released me again the following morning.  And I told them that I am expecting this all the time but the people will govern.

MS MKHIZE: Talking about the period from 1986 to 1989 that's where they detained you for a long time and they released you with conditions, is there anything that they did like torturing?

MR NCUBE: They did, because when I was released I was
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 NCUBE
taken by Smith and Engelbrecht and they took me to a special branch office and they said I must shut my dirty mouth up that tells people that they mustn't pay their rent.  Should we find you sitting with more than five people, should we find you in the company of five people we will take you away and your wife will never find you.  Should we find you in the company of two or three or in whatever company of more than five we will take you away, to the extent that I only left the house at six o'clock and I should be back at five again.  If I wanted to go to town I should telephone the special branch to collect me and take me to town.  When I alight from the vehicle I told them that John Vorster is just a young boy compared to me.  I am your chief.  Even when you are sleeping you just think of me, I am always in your minds.

MS MKHIZE: In brief you have mentioned a few people that were injured, you mentioned Jabi and his wife ...(intervention)

MR NCUBE: .... and their child and David the youngest of my sons, because I've got four sons and the youngest of my sons was born in 1967, David.  That is the one they hit him and his finger was picked up by neighbours in the yard on that night.

MS MKHIZE: We thank you very much.  Your story is a very painful one.  I will ask your lawyer to introduce himself in full and he should explain as to how did he try to help you.

OCTAVIUS MAGUNDA: My name is Octavius Magunda.  I am working with Steve Nkosi and Partners at Kempton Park.  Just in short I know Mr Ncube as early as 1984, since I was born as well at Tembisa.  I guess perhaps one might say we belonged to the same organisation as from that period onwards up to when Mr
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
11 MAGUNDA
Ncube was detained. I was with Mr Ncube in detention up to that stage, and I knew what the suffering that Mr Ncube was going through.  All the stories, the bombing of his house together with some other activists we made it a point to go and visit Mr Ncube from time-to-time with a gentleman like Alilitliyane who is presently the president of Sanco as Mr Ncube has mentioned.  And as from 1992 I have always been acting for Mr Ncube in matters that relate to the family.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much Mr Magunda.  I will just ask Joyce Seroke if she has any questions.  Mr Ncube could I just ask about your son Jackie, how old was he at the time when this happened and why were the police so keen to get at him?

MR NCUBE: He was involved in the struggle, he was an activist and he was the president of the Cosas at school.  He disappeared.  He was there and I was taking him to my elder brother's house in Winterveld and then I would take him back again to my elder brother in Katlehong. I used to take him around because they were looking for him and they wanted to assault him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Ncube we would like to thank you very much for coming to tell us your story and to give evidence as you have done today.  I think that in many ways what you are telling us is the sort of inspiration that has kept alive in some many people's hearts the fact that, yes, the people will govern.  And the fact that you have survived despite all the setbacks and the injuries that you have had yourself and to your family, particularly your wife, is an indication of the sort of fortitude and the courage that actually has got us to the position that we are in today.  We would like
TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
12 NCUBE
to salute you for that.  
 We will certainly investigate your queries.  We will investigate the people that you mention.  We will also see what can be done in terms of your actual claim.  The Reparations Committee is not in a position to make actual compensations, it makes recommendations to Parliament at the end of the Commission's life, but what you tell us, your story, and what your losses are will obviously be part of the recommendations that we can make.
 We would like to thank you very much for coming and to Mr Magunda as well.  Thank you very much.