Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

MR NGUBANE: (cont)
	Now Mr Mkhize, you indicated that when the house of Begi Nthuli was attacked, there was one constable Nkwanaze who was present.  Is that right?

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR NGUBANE: Do you have his name?

DJ MKHIZE: I have forgotten his name.  But I know him well.  I can identify him and his surname is Ndete Nkwanaze.

MR NGUBANE: Where was he stationed?

DJ MKHIZE: He was stationed at the Esikhawini police station, and he was thereafter posted to guard Mbuyazi's house at J2.

MR NGUBANE: And the last time that you knew of him was when he was guarding that house or he was transferred at some other place.  Can you assist?

DJ MKHIZE: I know that he left for training at the Ulundi Police College as a fully-fledged policeman.  The last I knew was that he was suspended because he had been discovered to have a criminal record.  And he was therefore suspended.
	I think I heard a rumour that they have however been successful and he is now a policeman somewhere.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you.  I am indebted to the Members of the Committee.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NGUBANE

CHAIRPERSON: It was indicated earlier that the brother of Sgt Khumalo had certain questions to ask.  Is he present?

MR KHUMALO: I am present.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Could you please state your full names?

MR KHUMALO: Mr Chairman, my name is as follows: I am Leonard Mongene Khumalo.  I stay in Esikhawini.  Youngest brother of the deceased, Sgt Khumalo.  I am actually here charged with the main duty of voicing a concern from the bereaved family members.  And some of them are present among us here.
	No 1, I would like to pose a few questions for clarity's sake before I continue with the rest of the questions.  Mr MZ Khumalo and Dalothulo Ntuli mainly implicated here, how did they get themselves involved in the assassination of Sgt Khumalo?

DJ MKHIZE: I explained the formation of the hit squad.  I did not say that MZ Khumalo and Dalothulo were involved in the murder of Sgt Khumalo.  But I described them as people who were involved in the formation of this hit squad.  With reference to how they were involved.  I think those are questions that could be directed to them, and then they could explain how they were involved.

MR KHUMALO: According to this document...

CHAIRPERSON: Which document are you referring to?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khumalo could you put your mike on?  That red light must be shining.

MR KHUMALO: Okay, thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: It's pg 116, para 85.

MR KHUMALO: Mr Mkhize, you have just indicated that Sgt Khumalo (inaudible) was suspected by regarding Mzimela to be an ANC sympathiser.  Is that true?

DJ MKHIZE: What is written in the statement is true.

MR KHUMALO: Is it such as the time went on MZ Khumalo and Dalixolo Luthuli and Maj Langene once held a meeting in Ulundi where my brother, the deceased, was then suggested to be assassinated.  Is that correct?

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR KHUMALO: So in other words they were involved in actual fact in the assassination of my brother as far as your recent answer is concerned?

DJ MKHIZE: I did not deny their involvement.  They were.  But I thought that maybe you - maybe I did not understand the question correctly.  I thought maybe you mentioned that it was just the two of them who were involved in the planning of this crime.  But it wasn't just the two of them.  There were people like Maj Langene that he did not really mentioned.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) me including Maj Langene.  What role did he play in the execution of my brother, Maj Langene?

DJ MKHIZE: When I was in the counsel chambers the phone call that has been made by Mrs Mbuyazi and I was thereafter called to the phone, it was Maj Langene that I spoke to on the phone.  And that was where I received the instruction that I should execute Khumalo.  I got the instruction from Maj Langene himself.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) hierarchy.  So Maj Langene was the top man to issue instructions to you to carry out.

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.  The instruction to kill your brother was given to me by him.

MR KHUMALO: If Maj Langene ordered you to kill your own brother biologically, how would you have handled that?

DJ MKHIZE: That is a very difficult question.  I admit that it could have been difficult to kill my own brother.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) to concede that killing my own brother because he was not biologically related to you.  In other words you were discriminative in a sense.

DJ MKHIZE: No, that is not so.  It was the political situation at that time.  And moreover, if you have been present during these proceedings I explained that I could not refuse a command after it had been issued.  Because refusing such a command was similar to committing suicide.

MR KHUMALO: So are you happy to realize the fact that you were not made to commit suicide, but you were made to kill my brother and as such you are still alive?

DJ MKHIZE: I know how you feel about this.  But as I said, I don't deny what you're saying.  I don't deny what you think, and I know how wrong I was.  And how much I wronged you.

MR KHUMALO: In other words you are actually telling this Commission, Truth Commission and the Committee involved that you are actually admitting the fact that the instruction you took from Maj Langene was completely unjustifiable for you to carry out.

DJ MKHIZE: At the time I thought it was proper because of the entire situation that I have explained since Tuesday.  But at this present moment as I appear before this Commission, let me not say since I am here now, but let me rather say since I've realized how wrong I was and what harm I had caused to the Esikhawini community, that is when I can then admit and agree with you.

MR KHUMALO: So in this case, what are your expectations from the bereaved family?  What are your expectations?  Could you please give us details?  I believe you've applied for an amnesty of which my brother is part of, that you assassinated.

DJ MKHIZE: I know that I expect that the family must hate me so much that they may wish to kill me themselves.  I know that and I expect it.  But I am happy that when I die, I would have told the entire truth to the community and to the Khumalo family.

MR KHUMALO: Is it true that you were a trained policeman?

DJ MKHIZE: Yes, that is true.

MR KHUMALO: In terms of pursuing killings, is that acceptable for a responsible policeman to carry out within the community?  Especially to the colleagues of his as you did?

DJ MKHIZE: A policeman is expected to protect the community and to serve the community.  But please understand that I am a policeman who was indoctrinated.  If you were here when I was explaining about the Caprivi training, you will realize how much influence I had about ANC supporters and ANC sympathizers.  Therefore the political situation at that time was responsible for the fact that I ended up not protecting the entire community; that there were such instances as the killing of your brother which I regret today.

MR KHUMALO: (Inaudible) one of these paragraphs, I think para 85.  Somewhere in 86.  You indicated that at one stage Capt Masinga was sort-of a branch commander of the unit that was operating at Esikhawini.  And at the same time it appears as if you were also operating under another unit.  You were reporting to a number of units.  You're reporting to branch commander, Capt Masinga and at the same time reporting to Maj Langene who was the head of the hit squad unit.  Is that correct?  That's how capable you were in executing your police duties.

DJ MKHIZE: I will not deny what you say.  It is as you say.