Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

MR LYSTER:  So did you come from Swaziland especially to be here at the Truth Commissioner today?  How did you hear about it?

WITNESS:   Yes, I only came to appear before the Commission. How did you come to know about the Commission?   ---   I have a relative at Esikhawini.  I took their phone number and addresses and I gave the ANC people so that they should contact me through this family.  That's how I got a telegram from Esikhawini family and I knew that I should appear before the Commission.

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mrs Mngomezulu.  I'll ask my colleagues if they have any questions they would like to ask.

MR LYSTER:  Mrs Mngomezulu, is Mr Schoon the only name that you know of the policemen who were involved in the abduction of your father-in-law?

WITNESS:   He's the only one that I know because my sister-in-law, Lokutu, is the one who told me.  This other guy, I don't know his name, and my sister-in-law is the one who can tell you more.

MR LYSTER:  Is that Lokutu your sister-in-law?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is my sister-in-law and Mr Mkhetwa is my brother-in-law.

MR LYSTER:  Now, if we wanted to speak to them to get more details about what happened to them, would they be willing to speak to us?  Did they support you coming down here to talk to the Commission?  Would they be willing to talk to us?

WITNESS:   Yes, you can talk to them but the thing is they are scared to come here.  They are the ones who sent me here.

KHOZA MGOJO: Another person that can help us here is Gerald Mngomezulu because your family seems to be very big.  Do you know where we can find Gerald if we want to?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  Since he's done this terrible thing, he disappeared.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about his family?

WITNESS:   Yes, he's got a family but not his own family.  He was still young.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where are his parents?

WITNESS:   His parents - some  of them are at Ingwavuma.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You mean we can go to Ingwavuma?  They might know where he is?

WITNESS:   I don't know whether they do know.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about Schoon?  Is Mr Schoon still around?

WITNESS:   I don't know but I trust he's still there.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is your father-in-law having other children except for these two?

WITNESS:   He's got three sons and the one who said I must stand up for this is Elliott his last-born and my mother-in-law Sephiwe.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is she?  Is she in Swaziland?

WITNESS:   Yes, Themba is in Swaziland.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You mean all of them are in Swaziland?

WITNESS:   Yes, all of them, they are in Swaziland.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Mngomezulu, we thank you for coming in today.  Thank you for coming all the way from Swaziland.  It's very brave of you to come all this way to talk about the disappearance of your father-in-law and to tell us what happened to two other members of your family.  We know that the South African Police were involved in many, many abductions, particularly from Swaziland, and they carried out these abductions in complete violation of international law.  They went to Swaziland, they killed people in Swaziland.  They abducted people from Swaziland and brought them back here and often tortured them and killed them in this country.  We will obviously do everything that we can to find out what happened to your father-in-law.  We can't guarantee that we will be successful but we will certainly try and we hope that just the fact that you have come here today and have talked about it in public is helping you help your family in Swaziland to come to  terms with his disappearance and there is the possibility, of course, that we will find out what happened to him.  We will speak to the policeman concerned, Mr Schoon, to see whether he can tell us where your father-in-law is and we will communicate that information to you and hopefully we will be able to get to the bottom of this.  So again thank you very much for coming and telling us this important story.  It really does help us to paint a complete picture of what the South African Police did in this part of the world and in other countries.  Thank you very much.
/MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: The next person will be speaking in English so if there are people who don't follow English very well, there are these simultaneous translation machines which you can get from that little door in the side wall there.  Thank you very much for coming here, Mrs de Haas.  You are not giving evidence today as a victim.  You are coming to give us the benefit of your experience as someone who has been monitoring political violence in this area for many, many years but we will nevertheless ask you to stand up and take the oath before you tell us what you have to tell us.

MARY DE HAAS: (Sworn states)

MR LYSTER: Before you start, could you just place on record who you are and what you do and what qualifies you to tell us what you're going to tell us?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LYSTER:  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   I'm a researcher and a lecturer at the University of Natal and I have been doing research in the province for the past 17 years and I have been quite actively involved in research since the 1980s in the North Coast region.  I started off doing research on a variety of topics including customs and activities involving the sale of liquor in the Empangeni, Gingindlovu, Eshowe area.  And then I also became involved in monitoring violence in the mid-eighties and as part of my violence monitoring activities, I was working together with the Progressive Federal Party unrest monitoring group which subsequently became the Democratic Party group and that was co-ordinated by the then provincial regional director of  /the PFP,