Special Hearings — Media Hearings — 1997-09-15

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you Mr Terreblanche, you have your own time limitations but let us pass the microphone to Hlengiwe.

MS MKHIZE: Professor a lot has been said about the interference of government in this institution, the SABC.  In your own views, how, can you give us the details as to what exactly happened because we seem to be getting a confusing picture?

UNKNOWN: We didn't have full knowledge of this type of influencing which was taking place.  The pressure was often exerted on the chairperson only during the period when there was a good relationship between Dr Verwoerd and Dr Meyer, it was obviously probably not necessary because they were cut from the same mould, cast from the same mould at the time but, and with Dr Vorster I'm not sure to which extent they saw eye to eye, but Dr Wynand Mouton became chairman later and the ministers often phoned him.  We had a long conference in Durban and at times he was reprimanded quite strongly, if that's the best word to use, regarding the things that were happening in the SABC.   There were also constant rumours about how the SABC as some people had said in the SABC, the heads of news etc had been phoned by politicians. There was a time when Mr Pik Botha was the minister, he was the great light at the time but nothing came of that and I was also a part of this Verligte hoop, I had personal contact with the minister, the relevant person in his department, if necessary I can mention his name, phoned me quite often, I knew whom he phoned quite often.  It was the beginning of the '80's when there was a really strong struggle going on between the Verligtes who wished to take over the SABC and because the Piet Meyer establishment had been entrenched so thoroughly they couldn't succeed.  And I must tell you it was quite a frustrating period when we as the Verligtes could not succeed in gaining a grip on the SABC so that we could come with our transformational propaganda and reform.    Today I realise that wouldn't have been the true thing either, the true reformation and true reform.  Do I answer your question?

MS MKHIZE: Thank you, but if I may just ask you a related question.  I mean the listener out there might be left confused about the stature of this institution, the SABC if maybe you need to just give your own views as to how do you think people should be appointed. It's difficult to accept what you are hearing that it's one institution which can easily be manipulated either to the left or to the right.

UNKNOWN: If you say that what I have said is confusing to the listeners out there then the easiest excuse would be to say that it was a confusing period. Perhaps even more strongly stated, it was at times a virtually chaotic period and what happened in this larger establishment which increasingly became aware of the growing threat, in many and various ways there was infighting to obtain influence and the SABC was justly regarded as a very mighty arm in the arsenal.   The cultural organisations, broederbond etc, all regarded this as important and wished to gain a grip on the SABC, on people in the SABC to gain exposure for themselves, exposure for their ideas which they wished to promote and propagate. So that it was a pretty chaotic affair is beyond any doubt.   Perhaps if time allows I could perhaps tell you this little story just to explain how ridiculous it sometimes was.  In the SABC we heard that a programme would be broadcast, and I hope that I announce correctly, Darryl in Russia.  Apparently Mrs Elise Botha was watching television and if she saw something she didn't like she would complain to Mr Botha about it and then Mr Botha would speak to Mr Pik Botha about it and it is said that PW Botha at times asked Pik Botha, "you are so unhappy about something according to the SABC but I didn't complain", and he replied, "yes but when I saw the programme I just buggered them up before hand so that they couldn't broadcast it".  Pardon the expression but that's exactly what was said.   Now Mrs Botha heard that something about Russia would be broadcast and the programme was prevented from being broadcast and we were told that something had gone wrong with the sound track of the programme because there was time required to convince Mr Botha and Mrs Botha that this programme really had nothing to do with the total onslaught. The programme was later broadcast and it concerned a young man who walked around in the forests in Russia and described the animals to the people.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe while they are digesting what they are saying, I mean based on what you are saying it's like the SABC is very, very important medium through which to influence the public.  But in your own views, how can, I mean because for us, the Commission also as it has been said, it's important to be thinking about what should be done in future to make sure that the things we are concerned about today are not part of our history again. Regarding the SABC as an organisation, it's like I don't want to believe that in future it might not be exploited to influence public opinion. In your own views how can it be structured in such a way that those mistakes don't happen again?