Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR WILLS: : Yes, I agree with that Mr Chairperson.   You see what worries me is the end of your report of this incident in your Affidavit.   You say the Kwa Zulu police arrived and it was discovered that people were burned in the car.   Then you go further and you say the police then came to the hall and dropped off a member by the name of Mr Mbato, who was a constable stationed at eSikhawini.   Constable Mbato stayed with us until the following morning.   Did the police not come in and ask questions about what had happened as regards the burning and the firing of that car and want to take statements from people?

MR HLONGWANE: : When the police arrived at the hall, they first started eating.   There was a Constable Mbato.   When he got off the car he went into the hall and spoke to Mrs Khumalo and said he was very hungry.   They went to the hall before they went to the scene of the incident.   They knew very well that the people who had burned the car were inside the hall.   They even saw the guns and weapons but they didn't do anything.   But Constable Mbato was left with us.

MR WILLS: : Okay, Mr Hlongwane, I want to now go through a couple of incidents very briefly, because both Mr Mhambo and Mr Mkhize have given details of these incidents and I'm just going to ask you to confirm certain things, okay?    The first incident I want to refer to is the return of the weapons.   It seems that these same people from Johannesburg were arrested by the Kwa Zulu police and Mr Mkhize gave evidence that both, they were released after being arrested by the Kwa Zulu police and their weapons were returned to Mrs Mbuyazi.   Do you confirm that?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's what happened.

MR WILLS: : Now you've heard a detailed account from both Mr Mkhize and Mr Mhambo about the assassination of April Tarliwe.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's so.

MR WILLS: : And do you confirm that it was initially intended that you would be in that assassination squad but these people returned to Mrs Mbuyazi's house after they had already killed him.   So you didn't participate in the attack.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes they went to investigate initially, and then they would pick me up later.

MR WILLS: : But when they came back, they told you he was already dead?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Now the murder of Napthal Khumalo is the next incident.  I see you participated in this attack.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I was there.

MR WILLS: : You have heard the evidence of Brian Mkhize and Mr Mhambo in relation to this incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : They put it the way it happened.

MR WILLS: : Now just one little aspect of this incident.   You ended up at Mr Robert Mkhize's house.   Is that correct, that night?   You were dropped off and you weren't taken home.   You walked to Mr Mkhize's house.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was not Mr Mkhize's house but it belonged to his girlfriend.   We did not find him at his house, and then we proceeded to his girlfriend and there we found him.

MR WILLS: : Yes, sorry - that is contained in the Affidavit.   I apologise for that.   The important thing is that when you found Mkhize, what did you say to him?

MR HLONGWANE: : We told him that we had made ...(indistinct) board the first bus.   He was very pleased and he woke up the girlfriend for us to make tea, and then he made a call to Manziwa, B B Biyela and told him not to worry, and that the boys were at his house.   Thereafter we got into his car, a BMW, and went to eSikhawini and he dropped us at Mr Hlela's house.

MR WILLS: : Yes thank you.   This incident that you report on page 178 in paragraph 123 is a new incident, that nobody has heard about.   It was some time in 1992, when there was an attempt to assassinate Mr Beki Ntuli, the ANC leader Mr Beki Ntuli.   Do you recall that incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I remember.   I was there.

MR WILLS: : Now who was with you.   Do you recall who was with you that night?

MR HLONGWANE: : Mrs Mbuyazi had asked me to take Izingabi to Mr Beki Ntuli's house.    So I was with police Izingabi, the group from Johannesburg, to identify the house of Mr Beki Ntuli.

SISI KHAMPEPE: : Mr Wills, I note that in the application, it is Mr Mbuyazi who was supposed to have given this order.   Is this a typographical error?

MR WILLS: : I can clear that up.   Sorry I can't remember myself the consultation.   I'll clear it up.   Thank you for pointing that out Ms Khampepe.   Who gave you the order to attack Beki Ntuli's house on this occasion?

MR HLONGWANE: : Mrs Mbuyazi was responsible for giving orders to attack.   Mr Mbuyazi has never given me an order.

MR WILLS: : Thank you.   It must be with respect a typographical - Thank you Ms Committee member.   Now it's just in short, you find out when you'd returned that you, in fact, made a mistake.   Is that correct?    As regards to the target?

MR HLONGWANE: : I was told by Mrs Mbuyazi and who told me that we had actually attacked number 123 instead of 125.

MR WILLS: : Now do you know who lived at house number 123?

MR HLONGWANE: : I would be telling you lies.   I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anybody die in the attack?

MR HLONGWANE: : I wouldn't know because Mrs Mbuyazi reprimanded me heavily about this.   As I said, I wouldn't know but Mrs Mbuyazi was very upset.

MR WILLS: : Right, I want to go now to the murder of ANC Youth Leader, Vincent Mkhwanazi.   Do you recall the incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I remember.

MR WILLS: : Are you saying your Affidavit is the same as being confirmed by Mkhize and Mhambo that this individual was mentioned at the original meeting in Hlanganane Hall where certain ANC targets were identified.   Is that correct?    He was an identified troublesome ANC person who was on a hit list.   Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Can you explain the circumstances leading to his death?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I can explain.   What I remember clearly is that Mbuso and Hlela had been told by myself that they should go and meet Pristi Junie Zulu, because a telephone call had come through that they were supposed to go there.

MR WILLS: : Slow down please.

MR HLONGWANE: : Romeo was alleged to have stolen a car.   Thereafter there was a meeting.   I don't know whether we used Mr Biyela's car, but we went to attack Nati's home.   On the following information, I was not really involved in the following information.

MR WILLS: : Sorry, sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we talking about the same incidents here?

MR WILLS: : I am just going to clear that up.   I want you to refer to paragraph 124, sorry page 178 paragraph 124.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the incident involving the ANC Youth Leader by the name of Vincent Mkhwanazi.

MR WILLS: : Not Nati Gumedi.

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I see it.

MR WILLS: : Do you want to refresh your memory and look at the paragraph or can you remember the incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I remember.

MR WILLS: : Now, I'm going to start this incident again, now.   This person's name was mentioned at a meeting at Hlanganane Hall.  Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Now tell us how he died.

MR HLONGWANE: : These boys who were mentioned as being troublesome at eSikhawini, that Inkatha was tired of these boys;  at the meeting that was held, they were identified by Mrs Mbuyazi that they were the people who were going to take the first bus.

CHAIRPERSON: So you say more than one person was identified.   You have referred to the boys and they were identified.   Who was identified?

MR HLONGWANE: : It was Vincent Mkhwanazi, Sietla Makatini, Jerome Zebani, Themba Mmbasa, and Themba Mmbasa was a hitman.   Jerome a hitman as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Those are the names referred to in paragraph 115.   Thank you.

MR WILLS: : Now continue.   How did this person die?