Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-19

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Harris do you wish to take the oath.

MR HARRIS: Ja.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Could you stand please.
FREDDIE HARRIS Duly sworn states

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Chairperson will facilitate the evidence.

MARY BURTON: Thank you - good morning Mr Harris.

MR HARRIS: Morning.

MARY BURTON: I would - I believe you want to speak Afrikaans.

MR HARRIS: Ja.

MARY BURTON: And is it all right if I  ask you questions in English?

MR HARRIS: Ja.

MARY BURTON: If you  want to, you can use the earphones for the Afrikaans translation.

MR HARRIS: I'll do so.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much for coming to tell us today about the killing of your niece - will you please tell us what happened on that day  in 1976.

MR HARRIS: Well it was the 13th of September 1976 that was the year when the youth rebelled and that was also the case in George.  In Borcherds, that's where I live, in that particular year, the youth were in revolt and there was a lot of stone throwing, they - they stoned the  vehicles in Sandkraal Road.  And next to Sandkraal Road, there was a wooded area and the youth moved out of the bush there to stone the vehicles.
 And then when the police arrived, they would run back into the bush into Acacia Street to get away from  the police.  And many of us ran into Lawaaikamp, that is the same Gracia Road which divides Borcherds and Lawaaikamp.  
 At about five o'clock, somewhere between five and six o'clock, people started arriving home from work and there is a road on the other side of  this bushy area where the bus usually stopped to - for the workers to get of.  Now there was al little foot path through this bushed area to the shop  and it  also went on to Lawaaikamp's area.  Now from this Gracia Road, there was also a foot path leading to  the shop and then on to Lawaaikamp.
 The police was shooting at people at that stage and they also shot at the innocent workers who had just come from work.  And they shot at us, whom they thought was stoning the police vehicles and the police.  It was between five o'clock and six o'clock when Abida was on her way to the shop, she wanted to  go and buy some sweets.  She was totally unaware of all the dangers lying in wait for  her.  And it was at that stage that the police started shooting again -  shooting at innocent people.  Abida was one of those shot by the police.
 The people who were arriving home from work, were also  shot, some of them - they were totally innocent, they had just arrived home from work.  Now Abida was shot, she fell - the police picked her up - they picked her up by the arm and the one leg and threw her into the police van.  This happened between five and six o'clock in the afternoon.  And they took me away as well.
 I can't tell you whether they went straight to the hospital with Abida or whether they still drove up and down, because at that stage anything was possible.  The police could do anything.  When my parents went to  the police, they were told that Abida had already died, that she was dead on arrival at the hospital.   She wa 12 years old at the time - 1976.  She was in std 5 at Heidedal school, that is all from my side.

MARY BURTON: Were - were you present - did you see all of this?

MR HARRIS: Yes I was part of a group of  people stoning the police vehicles, I was part of what happened yes.

MARY BURTON: You were part of  that group but  Abida was not, she just happened to be there at that time.

MR HARRIS: Yes Abida was not a part of this crowd of people who were throwing stones, you wouldn't expect that of  a 12 year old little girl.  She was a totally innocent person, she was just on her way to the shop from Gracia Street into the foot path which then leads to the shop - the shop is on the Lawaaikamp side.

MARY BURTON: And Abida's parents are they here?

MR HARRIS: Yes, Abida's father who is my eldest brother, he is dead already unfortunately, her mother is still alive and she lives in Pacaltsdorp.

MARY BURTON: It is one of the many tragedies that we hear that an innocent child passing an event like this, should have been killed and we very grateful to you for coming to tell us about it.  
 Would any of the other members of the panel like to  ask any questions -  Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Harris when Abida was shot, was she alone - was she alone when she was walking to the shop - were there other people with her?

MR HARRIS: No she wasn't alone, she was walking along the foot path towards the shop and the people who were coming from work, walked through this  Bluegum area, Bluegum foot path - there is another foot path which also leads to the shop and - so there were other people who were also shot  on that particular day.
One person lives in Thembalethu unfortunately isn't here to testify today, but he was also  shot at the time as Abida was and there is another person, who unfortunately now lives in Cape Town, now longer in George, he was a disabled man, a big man, he was on his way  from work.  He got off the bus and walked through this Bluegum path, he was on his way to go home and he was also shot  by the same group of policeman who  shot  Abida.

RUSSELL ALLY: And are those people prepared to come and testify before the Commission or have they done so, to make statements?

MR HARRIS: Well I heard that the one person wasn't - wasn't certain when the Truth Commission would be sitting to obtain statements from people shot in 1976 he is still living in George, he lives in Thembalethu.  The other person as I've said, the other person was shot on that particular day, this person was on his way from work, he was going home and he was shot.  His wife still lives in George, but he now lives in Cape Town.

RUSSELL ALLY: Would you be able to give these names to the Commission and you say  these people are prepared to make statements or the person who is still living in George is prepared to make a statement.

MR HARRIS: I will do my best to try  and get hold of this person and just to tell him to contact the Truth Commission.

RUSSELL ALLY: It is extremely important  to know what really happened on that day because as you will understand it is many years ago and many of the documents are  not available anymore so the more people come and tell us what exactly happened the better, it will give us a fuller picture of the events.  It will make our job much easier.  It will enable us to get a fuller picture of the events in 1976, the year when so  many things happened.

MR HARRIS: Yes I  will - I will tell these people when I see them .

RUSSELL ALLY: The Commission is extremely sad to hear that such a young person was killed in these circumstances, thank you very much, thank you very much.

MARY BURTON: Mr Harris just to  let you know that our investigation unit have followed up the - as much information as they can find, and they have got the inquest records, which confirms that Abida died from a gunshot  wound.  They have not been able to get the records of the - from the police for that day, what are called the police deployment records.  It looks as if those records have been destroyed.
 Perhaps we could just repeat the Afrikaans translation again for Mr Harris  to hear.

INTERPRETER: Could the Commissioner just repeat the question in English.

MARY BURTON: The - it wasn't so much a question, I  was just explaining that our investigators have found the inquest records, which confirms that Abida was killed from a gunshot wound but they have not been able to find the police deployment records from that day.  It seems together with many other police documents that they have been destroyed or are missing.
 So we do need to try and get as much information as  we can to  complete the story.   And we thank you very much for coming to us today  and as Dr Ally has said, extend our sympathy to you  and your family.

MR HARRIS: Thank you.