Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-06

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I think she said something to that effect.

MR MALAN: Okay, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that you fell tired and you went to your house to sleep? ... (tape ends) ... that you were going home?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I did not report to anyone.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there a reason why you did not report that you were going home?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I just thought that I am sneaking out to go and sleep, and I will quickly coming back.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anyone see you leaving?  There were many people there I suppose?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, there were many people, Defence, with other people of the community.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but did anyone see you leave?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The person who saw me was one of the civilians in F because I passed by their house.

CHAIRPERSON: And could any other member of the SDU who wanted to do what you did, have done that just go home and sleep?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wouldn't know that much.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, if you are able to do it, is there any reason why the others could not have done that?  Did you get the question?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I heard your question, I am still thinking.  I suppose no, I wouldn't know.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I mean you were present at the scene and you were able to go home, sleep until the afternoon.

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And thereby avoid going to the veld where the persons were killed.  Is there anything which could have prevented the other members of the SDU from doing what you did - simple go home, sleep until the afternoon?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wasn't avoiding whether I did not also know whether people will be killed or not.  I was there at the corpse, I thought people would explain it to the community as to what was happening.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in other words you assumed that because they have now been brought to the community, the community will then have to decide what to do with them, your duties as an SDU had come to an end, you can simply go and sleep?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I had to go and sleep because it was in the morning.

CHAIRPERSON: There was nothing which - the other members of the SDU's could have done the same, couldn't they?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Some had to keep guard, they had to be there.  It wasn't easy for them because there was another group that was released at night to go and sleep.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that, you see you told us that as far as you understood the situation, because the people had been brought to the community, the community was then to decide their fate, you were free to go and sleep, that is what you told us, right?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So I am saying, any other member of the SDU could have done the same, they could have gone to their respective homes and slept the rest of the day?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Were you aware of a rumour that the members of the ANC Youth League were out to kill members of the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That they left their ...

CHAIRPERSON: They were planning on killing members of the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I wouldn't confirm that because we are still trying to arrange meetings where we could discuss these matters.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but did you hear the rumour though that members of the ANC Youth League ...

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The rumours, yes, I heard them.

CHAIRPERSON: That they wanted to kill the members of the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What steps if any, were taken by the members of the SDU to protect themselves against such a planned killing?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: We did not try to protect ourselves, all that we did was to write a letter, we send Vuzi Mthembu to write a letter to them so we arranged a meeting and we discussed this matter, but that was to no avail.

CHAIRPERSON: Blanko was a member of the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: That is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Bulelwa would sympathise with the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: She was the community member and the street committee in the Civic.

CHAIRPERSON: Did she sympathise with the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: This is how Civic is structured in the SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: I am not talking about the Civic, I am talking about Bulelwa.  Did she sympathise with the SDU?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, she liked SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, the killing of Blanko who was a member of the SDU, did it not suggest to you that the ANC Youth League was now carrying out their plan of action to kill SDU members?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: It was so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MOTATA: Mr Ndabe, comrade Motlokwa recognised at least one person, that is Tusaneng who were attacking the house of Blanko, would I be right?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No, he said Tusaneng and Vips are the ones that he saw.  Otherwise they were quite many in number.

MR MOTATA: Yes, that is what I am saying, and did he tell you about the looting of tuckshop of Blanko?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: He only told us about the shooting and we heard as well and we ran in the opposite direction, and at the time when we were running towards Blanko, that is when Nxeba Sonti was there as well, we found that their house was burning fiercely and Blanko was sitting on the chair, helplessly.

MR MOTATA: You mentioned in your evidence that you met members of the Youth League with cartons of cigarettes, did I hear you correctly?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes.  They did not meet with me, or I did not meet them, but the man that left first in the company of Oscar, following the car that was going to fetch the corpse, then they met because he told us that those boys were coming out from another shack and shooting and insulting and they chased after them and they went to this tall grass and this boys now appeared with the cigarettes in their possession, and tin stuff.

MR MOTATA: Now, whilst you were told about the tin stuff and the cigarette cartons, wouldn't you say they are the same even if obtained from any other shop?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: Yes, they are the same.

MR MOTATA: But your comrades, the SDU's did they use this finding of tin stuff and cigarette cartons that these were part of Blanko's merchandise?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: It is so.

MR MOTATA: Because you know I want an explanation, I don't understand this that up to you, nobody has mentioned that Blanko's tuckshop was looted but there was merely a suggestion, but nobody said he saw it.
	They said that came from Blanko's shop because when they killed him, that for instance we saw Tusaneng, for instance, because this is a person we all know was positively identified that we sat Tusaneng helping himself to the merchandise, but when people are met with some tin stuff and all that, then some conclusion is made that these are the people who had attacked Blanko and taken some of his stock.  Could you probably shed some light that we understand the whole thing that happened the 6th of December 1993, are you able to do that?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: I am certain that the tuckshop that they attacked, had tin stuff, although I am not sure as to how much stock there was, since Blanko was so helpful in the community of F as far as food is concerned.
	When you got there to the tuckshop the shelves were empty suddenly, the fridge itself was empty.

MR MOTATA: Thank you Mr Ndabe.

MR MALAN: When I asked you about this Pinky you gave the indication or you left the impression that you know the Pinky who was with Bulelwa when she was shot, did you know her well?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No.  Even Bulelwa herself, I did not know her.

MR MALAN: Do you know the Pinky that was with Bulelwa when she was shot?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: No.

MR MALAN: How do you know that it is not the same Pinky?

BENNET MNYAKA NDABE: The one that I am talking about is younger and is this mother's child, it is a school child.

MR MALAN: Okay, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Madasa?