Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-12

CHAIRPERSON: Just for the purposes of continuity, the matter we heard yesterday involved a number of applicants.  It involved Mr Labuschagne, who unfortunately was not here.  I have been in communication with his attorney and I've told him that it is desirable that his client's application be heard by the Panel as it is presently constituted, because a great deal of the evidence relevant to the background in this matter has already been placed before us.  The members of the family of the deceased were present throughout the hearing.  One wants to avoid causing them inconvenience and the upshot of it is, I have now arranged for him, that's Mr Britz, to give him a special dispensation by interposing his application at half past nine on Wednesday morning.  He is going to come down with his client and we will then be able to close this chapter of the hearing.  So, we must work between now and then on the basis that on Wednesday morning we might have to suspend whatever we are doing to enable us to finish another matter.  Thank you.
	Are we ready to begin Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Yes, Chairperson.  Mr Chairman, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry to tell you, you must realise that the delay in beginning this hearing is not due to any delay on the part of members of the Committee.

MR VISSER: The thought never crossed my mind, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We're trying to organise our schedule in such a way that we can bring forward matters set down in the future so that we can save more time.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Yes, while we're on that point, Mr Chairman, Ms Thabethe has an impossible task, it seems, to bring matters forward.  Perhaps the problem here is in the whole attempt to place matters for certain dates.  It would seem and the present hearings do seem to be the best example of that, that one must place the incidents without dates, to run as a running role, so that people must know that they must keep themselves available because we are under an accelerated situation and it just won't do for attorneys and advocates to say "I'm sorry, you said it was the 3rd and therefore I'm not available before then".

CHAIRPERSON: That is part of the problem.

MR VISSER: Yes, that is certainly a big part of the problem.

CHAIRPERSON: That is part of the problem, the other part of the problem is the unavailability of the dependants.

MR VISSER: Yes, of course.

CHAIRPERSON: And sometimes that has caused a great deal of delay, but I appreciate the ...(intervention)

MR VISSER: We attempt to assist as far as we are possible, but our hands are also tied.  We can only be ready to go on with our clients, but we can't speak for others, as long as you understand that.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, good, I do.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, may I briefly refer you back to the Cele matter, just one matter which I neglected to mention?  You will recall that in the evidence of Lawrence Wasserman, he mentioned that he shot Cele with a firearm.  Now we did not lead him fully on that, but if necessary when he comes back he can give the evidence.  It was a Russian firearm, a Makarov, I don't know whether he said so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: But the fact is Mr Chairman, what I neglected to do, was to add to his request for amnesty, amnesty also for possession of an unlicensed firearm and ammunition, if you would be prepared to consider that as well?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, we are now proceeding to the matter of Mr Tekere, M K Tekere.  In this matter we act for Mr Vorster, Mr du Preez and Mr Wasserman and we will first of all call Mr Vorster.  You, I hope have before you the additional bundle which has been prepared by Ms Thabethe in the Tekere matter because that bundle includes the statements, which we have prepared of their evidence, at page 37 of the additional bundle.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we have that.

MR VISSER: If you will then turn to page 37, Chairperson, you will find the evidence of Vorster.  I beg leave to call him.  He will give his evidence in Afrikaans and he has no objection to taking the oath.

J A VORSTER: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Mr Vorster, you have given evidence previously before this Committee, is that correct?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And do you incorporate that evidence, in so far as it may be relevant, to this evidence that you are intending to give?

J A VORSTER: That is correct.

MR VISSER: What was your share in the Tekere incident?  Will you go to page 38 of the additional bundle and please address the Committee.

J A VORSTER: Chairperson, during the end of 1988 or the beginning of 1989,...(intervention)

MR VISSER: Just a moment please.  Is there a problem with the microphone?

CHAIRPERSON: You carry on, we're trying to get another one.

MR VISSER: Well, let's rather get you a proper one.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  You were saying that towards the end of 1988 or beginning of 1989?

J A VORSTER: That is correct Chairperson, I'm not certain of the date, Col A R C Taylor contacted me telephonically and requested for me to meet him at a safe-house in Pietermaritzburg.  It was on a farm in the Elandskop vicinity, which was used by me as a safe-house.

MR VISSER: Is that the same farm that you referred to yesterday during your evidence regarding the Cele incident?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Please proceed.

J A VORSTER: He requested me to meet Maj du Preez and W/O Wasserman in Pietermaritzburg and to bring them with to the farm.  I met them in Pietermaritzburg and they followed me in their car to the farm.  Upon our arrival there it was already dark.
	I found Col Taylor, along with a black man, there.  In this regard I was mistaken in my supplementary statement, on page 37 of the Tekere bundle.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

J A VORSTER: By saying that I found du Preez and Wasserman on the farm as well.
	Col Taylor informed us that the black man's MK name was Tekere and that he was a trained terrorist as well as a member of the ANC's Special Operations Unit.  That he had received specialist training in the manufacturing of explosive devices and that he had knowledge regarding the situation of DLBs and I would just like to specify that DLBs in this regard refers to weapon stockpiling locations.  Col Taylor further informed us that he had attempted to recruit Tekere to co-operate with the Security Branch, but that this was unsuccessful.  He also said that he believed the Tekere could not be released because he would continue with his terrorist activities.  Furthermore, he could also not be released because he would then be capable of identifying members of the Security Branch as well as informers.  
	I noticed that Col Taylor in his amnesty application, that being Tekere bundle page 4.

MR VISSER: That's the original bundle Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

J A VORSTER: Said that Tekere had been captured whilst he was on his way to set an explosive device.  I cannot recall whether Taylor told me this on that particular evening, but it is possible.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, perhaps I should just read that in page 4 the late Mr Taylor said
"My recollection of this incident is vague.  If I obtain further information about this, I will file a supplementary affidavit."

CHAIRPERSON: I see that.
"What I remember about Tekere is the following.  Tekere was an ANC operative who was caught while on a mission to place bombs in the Durban area."
That is what the reference is about and this witness says he can't recall that that was told to him.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

J A VORSTER: According to Col Taylor, he did not possess sufficient evidence to prosecute Tekere, consequently he decided that Tekere had to be eliminated.  Due to this information it became clear to us, or at least to me, that Tekere had been abducted and was being detained unlawfully.  On the basis of our subsequent actions, I therefore associated myself with this.  After this briefing ...(intervention)