Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-24

MR VALLY: In view of your involvement with the ANC, as well as the fact that the police had come before to your house, why did you go to the police to report Lolo's disappearance?

NICODEMUS SONO: I have to go to the police to report because if I didn't go they wouldn't understand the problem that why didn't I bring him with me to them, because this was made to make sure that they have no loopholes whatsoever that they can be able to get me.

MR VALLY: So you reported Lolo's disappearance in order to ensure that the police wouldn't be upset with you for not coming with Lolo to them?

NICODEMUS SONO: Not exactly that.  In that time you know that the police, if you don't co-operate with them in some other way, you were just inviting trouble.

MR VALLY: When you reported Lolo's disappearance to the police, did you directly implicate Mrs Madikizela-Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: I mentioned what happened exactly.

MR VALLY: I need to ask you this question.  You were on very friendly terms with Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, even though you seem to indicate now you believe that she was responsible for your son's disappearance. You went to her house, she paid your bond, how do you explain this contradictory - ?

NICODEMUS SONO: That is to say that I had a belief all along that my son is somewhere in Zambia, in ANC camps or whatever, because when she said I will take this dog to the movement, the movement will see what to do, to me the movement is that he was being taken outside where there are ANC camps or something.

MR VALLY: How long did you have this belief for that your son may be in ANC camps?

NICODEMUS SONO: I had this belief all along until all sorts of things came out and read in the paper where some other people claimed to have killed my son and all that. It's when that I saw it in the papers that people say they know the secret grave of my son and all that, then it's when I started having doubts about it.

MR VALLY: Mr Sono during the first in camera hearing, inquiry for Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, on page 113, we put to her the version given by yourself and your wife that you last saw Lolo injured in her presence outside your home, that you pleaded with her to release him. Her response was this was incorrect information.  She went on to say that there was no such incident which you and your wife described.  She further stated that your assertion that you pleaded for his release is false.  She said your allegation that Lolo was beaten is absolute nonsense, at page 114.  In short she almost completely refuted everything you alleged.  She also said you have come to her house subsequent to that period but you have never raised the issue of Lolo's disappearance with her.  Is this correct?

NICODEMUS SONO: It is not correct.  I did go and raise Lolo's issue with her, and it is true that when she went away with Lolo in a blue kombi she was herself present in the kombi and it was driven by Michael Siyakamela.

MR VALLY: Do you have any knowledge of Lolo working as a courier for Mrs Madikizela-Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I don't have that knowledge.  As I have mentioned earlier that Lolo used to hang out with Peter, Sepo and other young men at my place and I was - I don't have any knowledge of that.

MR VALLY: Mrs Madikizela-Mandela said she used him as a courier a number of times, do you have any knowledge of this?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I don't have, I don't have that knowledge.

MR VALLY: Mrs Madikizela-Mandela at the Section 29 inquiry also said that the last time she saw Lolo was when she came to pick him up at your house and dropped him off with his cousin Frans or Tebogo, and the other gentleman with him, and that's the last time she saw Lolo.  What's your reaction to that?

NICODEMUS SONO: It's incorrect.

MR VALLY: Did Lolo often spend nights at the house of Mrs Madikizela-Mandela?

NICODEMUS SONO: Not to my knowledge.

MR VALLY: In the back rooms?

NICODEMUS SONO: At Mrs Mandela's house?

MR VALLY: That's right.

NICODEMUS SONO: Not to my knowledge because as he has explained to me when he went on Monday, the very Monday and Tuesday he went to Mafulo with Siboniso they spent nights at Siboniso's aunt in Mafulo, not at Mrs Mandela's house.

MR VALLY: Was he ever a member of the Football Club?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, I don't know of that.

MR VALLY: Have you ever raised this issue with the ANC?

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes, in 1990 when the ANC was unbanned, I went to 54 Sauer Street and I made a statement to two young chappies, which they even asked me for Lolo's photo, which I gave them the photo and I made a statement to them, and they never come back to me until somebody in Pretoria has spoken on behalf of Frans, and Mr Morodi and another gentleman and a lady, they contacted me.  By then the ANC has moved to Shell House, which they invited me to Shell House. I spoke to them and they told me they were the people that received all the people that were sent to exile and they knew everybody, they have photos, they have names and as they are unbanned they are coming back to go to parents that has lost their children in striking, that has lost their children in training, they go around and tell them what happened. So they said to me they will look at my matter, and they did come to my house and they said they don't know of Lolo and they haven't seen him, they don't even have his picture or his nickname.

MR VALLY: Thank you, Mr Sono.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Semenya.

MR SEMENYA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Mr Sono, Mrs Mandela recalls the day when you, as you say, you brought the ammunition and arms to the house.  That is consistent with what you are saying, am I correct?

NICODEMUS SONO: That is not correct because she cannot recall the day that I brought the ammunition to her house only and not recall the other days that I have seen her before.

MR SEMENYA: No, I am just mentioning one of the days.

NICODEMUS SONO: Yes, that is correct. I was there, she saw me.

MR SEMENYA: And that you did come when you had financial difficulties to request for assistance?

NICODEMUS SONO: That is correct, I did mention that.

MR SEMENYA: Now if I understand you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Could you speak sort of directly into the - ?

MR SEMENYA: If I understand your evidence, the only reason why, according to you, Lolo was brought by Mrs Mandela to you was that they must come and tell you that he's a spy?

NICODEMUS SONO: That's what she said to me.  I cannot say the only reason, that's what she said to me.

MR SEMENYA: Are you aware of any reason why Lolo was brought to you?

NICODEMUS SONO: Well, according to me, I think Lolo could have brought Mrs Mandela and the boys to me so that I can be able to rescue him from Mrs Mandela and the boys. That's why he led them back to my house so that I can be able to plead for him, and which I failed.

MR SEMENYA: No, but, if I understand, if they didn't want to come to your house they would not have come to your house.

NICODEMUS SONO: I cannot answer to that one because I tell you my version, I cannot answer to that one.

MR SEMENYA: But, according to you, you can't think of a reason why they would just bring him purely to say your son is a spy?  That they could have told you any other occasion, is that correct?

NICODEMUS SONO: No, that, I strongly believe that he might have promised them something.  You know it's two things here.  He might have promised them something that is at the house, that is why they had patience to wait for me when I was not home.

MR SEMENYA: Did Lolo say to you that he had promised them something?

NICODEMUS SONO: He did not speak to me in the kombi or outside the kombi, because when he wanted to say something he was told to shut up.

MR SEMENYA: Now where do you get this thought that Lolo would have promised them something?