Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

MR SESELE: At the time when you recruited the other three applicants in this matter, were there any criminal cases pending against you?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: As an individual I was not engaged in any criminal activity because ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, the question was, at that time were there any criminal cases pending against you?  He's not asking whether you were involved in any criminal activity but were there any cases pending against you, whether you were guilty or not of the cases involved, if there were any is a separate matter, but were there any cases pending against you?  That is the question.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: At that time there was a case which the police were trying to implicate me in.  As they told me it was a case of armed robbery which was robbed in Qwa Qwa.  I was detained together with other police(?) who came from Bethal.  In that case we received bail.  After some time I was acquitted, I was acquitted from that case.

MR SESELE: There was that armed robbery case pending against you when you recruited the other applicants in this case?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: That armed robbery case was in 1993, we were detained in 1993.

MR SESELE: On the 5th of June 1993, that is the date of this incident, the case was still pending against you, is that right?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Yes, I was attending Court.

MR SESELE: And amongst others the deceased, Sergeant Makau was the investigating officer, is that correct?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: As to whether one of the deceased was the investigating officer, we were informed in Court it was the fabrication of the police that one of the deceased was an investigating officer of the armed robbery case.  I was not detained by one of the deceased, I was detained by Sergeant Pitso.  I was charged by Sergeant Motlaung.  That is Sergeant Motlaung, whom I knew was responsible for that docket.

MR SESELE: After your arrest you were charged and there was a criminal case against you and the other three applicants in this matter, is that right?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Do you mean that criminal case was on me, on my shoulders or for other applicants?

MR SESELE: I'm referring to the criminal case involving yourself, Mr Mofokeng, Mr Sera and Mr Mosia, the very same case for which you are serving a prison sentence.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Yes, we were imprisoned for this particular incident, not for the armed robbery.  I did this incident because of the instructions I received from my commander.  We would not regard that particular incident as a criminal case.

MR SESELE: When you were charged do you remember that there was also one Mr Kele who was arrested with you in this murder case?

CHAIRPERSON: What was that name, Mr Sesele?

MR SESELE: Mr Kele.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I saw him for the first time in the police cells.  I knew him because we attended this case together and then he was acquitted.

MR SESELE: Do you remember that Mr Kele in the High Court when you were charged, was a State witness against you?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: He was not a State witness. ...(no English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, we're not getting the interpretation.

INTERPRETER: There was a little problem, Sir.  We want the applicant to repeat.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Mohomane, could you please just repeat what you've said?  There was a complication in the interpreter's box and it wasn't coming through.  If you could just repeat your last statement.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Abraham Kele, his evidence was in regard to the gun which comrade Sera hid to his place.  He gave evidence only with regard to the gun which comrade Sera hid in his place.

MR SESELE: In Court you did not give evidence personally?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: That's correct.  I was not prepared to address that Court because I knew that they would not interpret what I'm saying in that Court and that is why I ended up being given that sentence.  So I was not prepared to testify in that Court.

MR SESELE: Mr Kele, there's evidence on record, and I would refer the Committee to page 122 of the bundle, the last paragraph and again at page 123 the last paragraph and in particular at page 123 Mr Kele testifies about what he heard between you and the other applicants regarding the background of this shooting.  At page 124 Mr Kele says the applicant, Mr Mosia, who was then accused number 3 in the case was actually blaming you and Mr Sera for having led them into this killing.  Do you remember hearing that in Court?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: No, Sir, I don't remember hearing that evidence.  The only thing that I remember in Court was the evidence by Mr Kele concerning the gun.  And then he also gave evidence about the story that he alleged that he heard us holding while we were at the police cells.

MR SESELE: Mr Kele also said in evidence against you that you are the person who suggested that the late Sergeant Makau be shot because he was an investigating officer against you in an armed robbery case.  Regarding that I would refer the Committee to page 124 of the bundle at line number 7, rather number 6.
	Do you remember him saying that in Court?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Yes, I do.

MR SESELE: And I would also refer the Committee to the evidence of Sergeant van Staden at page 130 at approximately line number 21.  This Captain van Staden testified in Court that the deceased, Sergeant Makau was an investigating officer in a robbery case against you, can you remember that?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I remember the Court asking Captain van Staden about that, whether one of us were attending a case which was handled by one of the deceased.  That concerned accused number 2 and others.  They were attending a case which was investigated by the deceased, but like I have already explained I was never arrested by the deceased and that we killed him because of that case, that one I don't know.  I don't understand and I don't remember that the other person died because of what they were doing or what is alleged that they were doing.

MR SESELE: The first robbery case - according to Captain van Staden in Court, the first robbery case, regarding the first robber case you only got, you were released on bail on the 5th of June and that is the day on which the deceased died, that deceased that was shot by you and the other appellants.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I was not released on bail on the 5th of June.  Like I've already explained they were just trying to implicate me.  I was arrested in March as I remember well and the deceased died two weeks after I was arrested.

MR SESELE: The State witness against you namely, Mr Kele - and I'm referring the Committee to page 124 the second paragraph from the bottom, testified in Court that when there was talk of, when you were in detention and you were talking about this case in the presence of all other applicants, none of you objected to having taken part.  That is the evidence that is standing on record that led to your conviction.  Do you remember hearing that in Court?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I don't understand your question or what you are trying to explain, can you please repeat your question?

MR SESELE: In Court, do you remember Mr Kele testifying that when you and the other applicants were in prison you talked of the killing of Sergeant Makau in particular and Sergeant Mosebi as ...(indistinct) and concerted action?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Like I've already explained, the evidence given by Kele in Court was not against me, what he said in Court was that he heard us while we were still on trial, that what we did we did as a group, that is collectively.

MR SESELE: The factual findings made in Court on the evidence of Mr Kele and Captain van Staaden let to your conviction but you never, and you had the chance of contradicting that in Court but you never did so, why?