Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR BERGER: And you will remember that before that, on the 22nd of July 1990, there was an IFP rally in Everton, Zone 7, do you remember that?  That was, if I am correct, the first IFP rally in the Vaal?

MR MKHIZE: It was not in Everton, but in Zone 7.

MR BERGER: Zone 7 Sebokeng?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, in Sebokeng.

MR BERGER: I beg your pardon.   That was when the violence started in the Vaal, am I correct, after that rally or from the time of that rally, 22 July 1990?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: After the deaths on the 4th of September 1990, is it correct that there were many IFP members arrested including a person by the name of Sibusiso Qunchu?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And is it correct that Sibusiso Qunchu and Damara Qunchu are the same person?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: And then there were many other incidents of violence that happened in Sebokeng, in Everton, around the Sebokeng hostel, but there was no violence around Boipatong, and I am talking now right up to the beginning of 1991.  No violence around Boipatong, would that be correct?

MR MKHIZE: I would say that that is correct to a certain extent, because we were being attacked by the entire Vaal Triangle area.  It could have been the people from Bopuleni, Boipatong or wherever else in the Vaal Triangle.  Everyone who was Inkatha or Zulu speaking, was being attacked.

MR BERGER: Isn't the position rather Mr Mkhize, that the IFP had no real presence in the Vaal, prior to July 1990 and then after that rally, I beg your pardon, in July, the 22nd of July 1990, the IFP established a presence in the Vaal by continuously waging a war against the residents of the Vaal.  Isn't that what was happening at the time?

MR MKHIZE: No, that is not correct.  That rally was held to commemorate the burning down of our members' houses which had been burnt by the ANC members.

MR BERGER: And also I am referring now to the beginning of 1991,  there was a gang operating based at kwaMadala hostel and headed by Victor Keswa, also known as Katisi.  Do you know about that?

MR MKHIZE: I don't have knowledge thereof.

MR BERGER: You don't have knowledge about Victor Keswa at all?

MR MKHIZE: I know Keswa very well.  What I know was that there was a gang that he was with, the people who came from the township.    Whether he was their leader or not, I am not aware thereof.

MR BERGER: I am asking you whether you know that Victor Keswa's gang operated from kwaMadala hostel?  Not that they worked at the hostel, that they were based, Victor Keswa and his gang were based at kwaMadala hostel and launched their attacks from kwaMadala hostel on residents of the Vaal?

MR MKHIZE: I don't have knowledge of that sort.  If you have knowledge or evidence of such, I would not dispute it because they used to reside at the hostel.

MR BERGER: Victor Keswa and his gang did reside at kwaMadala hostel, is that what you are saying?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, they did reside at the hostel.

MR BERGER: Would you describe the AmaButho as the military wing of kwaMadala hostel, would that be a fair description?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I could describe them as such.

MR BERGER: And so you were the leader of the AmaButho, you as the Commander, you would have been aware of what fighting units were resident in kwaMadala hostel and what they were up to, correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I would have known, except in circumstances where a person was secretly involved in criminal activities.
	I knew all that there was to know about the AmaButho and the activities in the hostel.

MR BERGER: On the 12th of January 1991, there was a night vigil for Christopher Ngalembe and at that night vigil, the people at the vigil were attacked, 35 people were killed and over 40 people were injured.  Do you know about that attack, it was in Sebokeng?

MR MKHIZE: I heard about it.

MR BERGER: And you also heard that Victor Keswa's gang was blamed for that attack, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I heard about it.

MR BERGER: Do you know whether Victor Keswa and his gang were responsible for that attack?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not have such knowledge.  I was away at home at that time, I returned when they had already been arrested and their trial was in progress.

MR BERGER: Victor Keswa was released after that.  Did you never question him about his participation in the attack?

MR MKHIZE: No, I never discussed it with him.

MR BERGER: Is that because you were afraid of him and his gang?

MR MKHIZE: No, he was a small kid.

MR BERGER: Victor Keswa was a small kid?  Did you say Victor Keswa was a small kid?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, he was very young, much younger than I am.

MR BERGER: Did you know that amongst the people arrested in relation to the Ngalembe night vigil massacre, was Darkie Qunchu?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I was aware of that.

MR BERGER: He was the brother of Damara Qunchu, Sibusiso Qunchu, right?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: As well as Thomas Lukhozi, he was also arrested?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Was Thomas Lukhozi with you on the night of the attack on Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: I don't remember, but I think he was present.

MR BERGER: And Daniel Mabote, Themba Mabote, he was also arrested with Victor Keswa following the night vigil massacre?  Is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: When those people were arrested, Victor Keswa was in hospital.

MR BERGER: That was in January, February 1991, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: Although I cannot remember quite clearly, but I do know that Victor Keswa was in hospital.

MR BERGER: Do you know a person by the name of Aaron Mtjale?

MR MKHIZE: What is the name again?

MR BERGER: Aaron Mtjale?

MR MKHIZE: Maybe I know him by another name.

MR BERGER: Is that not the Mtjale who served on the senior committee?

MR MKHIZE: I don't remember.

MR BERGER: Do you know of an incident which occurred between the 4th and the 10th of March 1991, where Vanana Zulu went with Inkatha members from the kwaMadala hostel to some shebeens in Boipatong, and threatened that Inkatha would invade residents to teach them a lesson?  This is March 1991?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not have any knowledge thereof.  I don't remember ever having accompanied Prince Zulu anywhere.

MR BERGER: Well, did you ever discuss with Vanana Zulu, Prince Zulu, his attitude towards the residents of Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: Please repeat the question.

MR BERGER: Did you ever discuss Prince Vanana Zulu's attitude towards the people of Boipatong, did you ever discuss that with him?

MR MKHIZE: It was something that we used to discuss and he would tell me that we should wait a while because he was still trying to find a way of discussing this issue with the leaders from Boipatong.  That is what we usually discussed with the Prince.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say that Vanana Zulu would say to you, you must wait?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: What did the applicant want to do?

MR MKHIZE: We used to tell him that people were complaining that they were being attacked and killed daily and I was of the opinion that we should launch a revenge attack.
	The Prince said we should wait whilst he was still trying to meet leaders from Boipatong, with whom he will discuss this matter, so that the killing would stop.

MR BERGER: We are talking about the period 1990 to 1991, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Do you know a man by the name of Ernest Tsotso?  Ernest Tsotso?

MR MKHIZE: I do not know him.

MR BERGER: Do you know the name of any leader of the ANC in Boipatong during the period 1990 to 1992 or even 1993?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not know any.

MR BERGER: So you as the leader of the AmaButho, you did not know who was leading the ANC in Boipatong, you did not know any single member of the ANC in Boipatong, is that right?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did not know anyone.