Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-24

DUMA MOSES NKOSI: Thank you.  That was when the police vehicles were used to transport people's property to remove them from their homes.  It is very true, Commissioner, that you say that, there are sworn in statements that we took from people who experienced that the police themselves and soldiers who would practically help you leave your own home and make you pay for that service.
	I will also say that in 1993 in May the situation that prevailed in the area, there was a point that came up that the ANC organisation, in fact ANC organisation discovered that we were being oppressed and there was a march organised by ANC that we should have freedom and independence in the area and freedom of speech.  We referred to this as the Free Political Activity March.  Now that march took place and there were problems that we encountered.  The reason why I'm highlighting this is that I want to transcend to Annexure 11 and show you as to what transpired that particular day in 1993, May 22nd.  At all times when there will be a problem that would erupt, there will be problems that the community will face.  I will talk about the IFP march in particular in September 8, 1991 where the police informer assisted that the people of IFP shall be killed or eliminated.  What happened was that Sam Nduli was killed.  Now this resulted from the march and the killing of the IFP people.   The reason why I'm bringing this to your attention is that even though there were fights in the past or prior to this as I indicated earlier on around the triangle, you will find that as time went on there were no people who were fighting each other, instead you'll find people armed with weapons driving cars around and killing indiscriminately.  The late Sam Nduli, the manner in which he was killed, he was isolated from other people and was killed that way and it is still our desire with his family that the whole truth must surface because this is the time.
	Another thing that I'd like to say is that after the march, in fact I shall go back to Sam Nduli, we were working hand in hand with him to look into this Peace Accord of ANC with IFP.  As he was killed or a day before he was killed, we just had a meeting about this peace, forming the peace and stability in the area.  He was killed around that time because after the march of May 22 as the ANC branch in Thokoza on the 25th we lost our treasurer, our branch treasurer, by the name of Dan Makanya.  He was killed in a way that a taxi was taken into the hostel and ever since he disappeared and was discovered two or three days later in the Alberton mortuary by his wife.  
	Something else also emanated shortly after that.  At that time, it was on the 5th July 1993, I lost my neighbour.  The mistake I saw was that I think those who were attacking him thought they were attacking me.  The mistake he made was that he resided in Extension 2, the same area as mine and he was driving the same car and colour as mine.  Thirdly and lastly which is important, he had the same surname as mine, he is Isaac Nkosi and resided in Extension 2.  He was killed on the 5th July.
	Why am I saying this?  I'll tell you.  I've already said that people were being killed and it was no longer an indiscriminate effort now, they were being killed deliberately and will be isolated from others or from a group and be killed particularly, so it was a deliberate action.  You will be asked when you are walking around and be asked as to "we have heard there is a big function, somebody has killed" and that was fashionable at that time then to conduct funerals all over because people were being killed deliberately, with deliberate motive.
	Lastly, maybe two examples, we also heard a certain lady who was in the ANC Branch Youth League by the name of Punsi Umbata.  I don't think there's anybody who is not aware that Umbata is a Zulu person.  Umbata was a member of ANC and this attack or this fight was in so much that it would divide people according to their families and their surnames as well.  Even in KwaZulu Natal it's still happening even now.  The community will fight one another, people in the community will fight one another and the same thing happened to Umbata.  On the 5th November 1991 was killed.  The person who killed her just approached her and asked whatever he asked, after that he shot at her and fled the scene.
	And the last thing that I will like to bring to your attention is that as I've already indicated earlier that there many things that were happening, activities.  We spoke about the political struggles or strife, there were other people who were furthering their agendas with ulterior motives like Vusi Shabalala who was a member of SANCO or Civic if you so wish, he was killed in 1992.  But around that time there was a report or an announcement that we submitted that in Annexure 12 the situation was in such a way that there was a gang called Khumalo Gang.  I was only saying this so that I may be able to explain the whole situation and give you as full a picture as possible so that as the Commission we are so happy and delighted about the fact that you've afforded us opportunity to say all the things we've said.  It is important and very crucial for these things to come to the surface so that they are known and you are helped also to further your work easier and one thing that makes us happy is that most of the people who have submitted their amnesty application are people we've motivated to do that because we believe that the truth must be known because our major word is that the community was attacked.
	Secondly, we are saying this picture that's being portrayed now about IFP and ANC that those who planned and succeeded because they were working behind the scenes, that is not really so but there is a wound that remains because they were working behind the scene cooking whatever they were cooking and making sure that the evil gets done.
	Another thing that we forwarded to the Commission is that we wanted the whole story to be clear and to be laid on the Commission's table.  There is another point that I will like to bring to your attention, we had a discussion, us as ANC, because some felt that when you go to the amnesty you will be arrested.  Worked so hard to motivate them and encourage them to bring forward their applications for amnesty and the majority agreed to that and a few of them are still hesitant to bring their application for amnesty to the Commission.
	The reason why I'm saying this is that what transpired from the discussion we had, we realised that the difficulty we are faced with is that some are saying why should we apply for amnesty when we are being attacked?  It's the same situation as now, we are coming to apply for amnesty and we are perpetrators.  But we are from the community which was being attacked or harassed so we were victims of this harassment.  It was not as easy as we thought to get everybody to come to apply for amnesty.  We tried all we could in our power to get the majority to come to apply for amnesty.  There is no other place that you have realised the many applications for amnesty as here.  
	In closing, it is of great importance, we believe, that as we brought forward our amnesty application we did that from the structure but we do believe that the Commission does look at the incidents and we thought we shall explain the way things happened, even myself as Duma Nkosi, it is possible that I may have omitted other incidents but I do know as a member of central command that when I said that people must defend themselves and lived with the people and a person will have a weapon to defend himself, it could have happened that that person will kill obviously and inevitably.  So it was obvious that as a person given a weapon to defend yourself it will in the process happen that you will end up killing so that if it happens that you find yourself in a situation whilst defending yourself you have to kill, you should kill.
	Another thing that may be confusing is that we had this deep rooted anger and we had various beliefs in our area.  The violence that was facing the community made them in so much that they had to employ every means possible to defend themselves so that a preacher should or a pastor pray, a doctor should do his duty, everybody had to contribute to see that the community is defended.
	A point that may bring difficulty as times goes on and I'm not well conversant in as far which doctor or traditional healing is concerned, but there was a belief traditionally that if a person has been killed by a weapon, even in the house the corpse won't be brought into the house, in other words the corpse won't be brought into the house because he'll be bringing evil spirit and another belief was that if a person has killed by the weapon, the corpse should be manoeuvred with so that the evil spirit go back to the killer.  So that is a belief, you don't have to believe this, it's something that is there, it happens we believe in it.  The reason why I'm saying that we may encounter difficulties for the Commission to understand our position so that things like after you've killed a person and you'll have to burn the person.  The reasons behind that you may not understand them because killing a person is not acceptable at all.  Now even setting the corpse alight is even worse but things like that had to be done because there were belief behind that.  I plead that there should be a person to explain this point to the Commission as to the beliefs to such effect.  Well, in the western culture when you go to the court of law you would think this is an animal that because he has committed heinous deeds but then it's not so with us.  We talk about Indilezi or traditional medicine, how to use this traditional medicine called Indelezi in a situation of war.  For instance such things were being used, you don't have to believe that but these things are there.  I thought I should highlight on this because I deem it important for the Commission to have clear understanding so that people brought forward so much to see that the community has been defended appropriately.  If you believe in whatever you think will alleviate the pain from the community, you will do so.  The Indilezi story or this traditional healing or medicine, it's a belief that is a belief that is from our ancestors and is still present.  It's not like the black people are animals, they eat one another, but it's really not so, it does not work that way, it must not confuse this Commission but the request we have is that those who have invaluable information in as far as explaining this concept of Indilezi, please they shall do so to the Commission but this not suggest in any way that it should believe in this.  People believe in this and it does happen.
	We were fortunate in our residential area throughout all this violence and things I've talked about.  We were able to contribute in the betterment of our area.  The President of the country was able to bring stability in our area.  The houses that were destroyed were so many in number but the majority of such houses have been built again and others have been refurbished as well due to the contribution of the President.  The reason why I'm saying this is that everybody has contributed to this process.  According to me, in 1993, it so transpired that or it so happened that President Mandela and De Klerk arrived here and brought together a certain group we called or referred to as Task Group.  When they formed this I was also part of that group or a member.  I was elected by the union or COSATU.  It was to see that there was peace in the area and we built a new place and it had various departments and missions.  We wanted to ensure that the security is in place, like Duarte was active in that and the one who was - Dan Mofokeng was also in communication continuously with the community and we were also looking into the needs and the services that were applicable and the infrastructures to see that it's promoted and we knew that as we were fighting people go disturbed because a certain department, Social Services, now the activities of that, social activity, was to stabilise people and show that the ordinary and the daily routines of the community go on and we have such services as counselling done in that department.  The reason why I'm saying this it's because that's where the ISU was removed, that was in 1993, and soldiers were brought in.  In the township of Thokoza they saw an army camp, it came in at that time.  I also wanted to point this out that even this was a Presidential project, Mr Sekwale, the Premier, who was the one who was closer.  He employed Themba Malulega as manager.  There was also the then Minister of M.E.C. for Police, Duarte and others.  Sekwale who was Premier at the time used to come here often to see what was happening.  Mr Matoli who is presently Premier of Gauteng is one of the people who would seeing that he is a lawyer would assist us in legal representation.  I just wanted to indicate that we were not doing things in isolation, we were always in contact, asking for assistance where necessary but yes, we did some of the things on our own.  We left our families, went out to work out there, knowing that our lives were in danger on a daily basis.  It is near miraculous that I am here today.  For example if you find yourself in a situation such as that it would be possible for one to die any time.  People had to work towards building their communities.
	The continuation of the talks between the IFP and us is something very important.  We know that the repatriation of people back into their houses is something very important, it is still continuing.  We had hoped that we would bring together different organisations when we unveiled Induli's tombstone recently, we wanted to bring people from different  organisations together.  We want you to know this, we don't want to go back to that situation.  I do not believe that we can continue in the same manner as we did.
	I would like to conclude by saying that in the report that we submitted there are other suggestions that were made that people who were psychologically effected are the youth, some of whom were part of the SDU and therefore it would be very important to make sure that they get counselling.  I'm here today, I'm not sure whether I'm operating as well as I should, I'm not sure about that.  I'm not in any way suggesting that I have lost my head either.  I am saying here that if a person can be helped insofar as counselling is concerned, that would make things easier and secondly, we are suggesting that we should try and identify a spot or areas where job opportunities can be created.  We refer to what we call a job centre.
	Attempts were also made elsewhere.  One example that we have here is that in England, in Brixton, where such a thing was established.  That would be something from which notes can be taken.  Attempts are also continuing that we should erect a tombstone or a monument in respect of all those died during the violence.  We know that some people died, some have lost their entire families and some survivors do not know where their next of kin have been buried...(inaudible) rise from their grave they should know where to find their next of kin.  	Now if you look at job opportunities, we are looking at a situation where it would be possible to work for the community like for example our counsellors should always think about the youth because these are the people who should not go idle, they might end up doing something undesirable.  Many people discontinued their education as a result.  Some of these people did not continue with their education and therefore it would be very difficult for them to go back to school now but then they should be given that opportunity to continue with their education.  
	One of the things that was raised is that some people got injured.  Say a person is looking for an artificial leg after he was amputated, or a person has lost an eye, these are some of the needs, these require lots of money.  People cannot do this on their own.  Some people got crippled and among those we are trying to establish any means for their subsistence.  These people have to be assisted insofar as food is concerned.  And lastly, we are saying there are orphans out there who came about as a result of these problems, people that are orphans they are cared for by other people.  Some money has to be made available to further their education.  These people have to further their education.  
	Let me once again thank the Commission for having granted me a hearing.  This is where I will end with my report.  I am prepared to answer any questions, thank you.