Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-04-29

CHAIRPERSON: We will commence with the application of Jabulani Tunene Ncokwane.
TECHNICAL PROBLEM WITH RECORDING

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee is the same as it has been earlier in the week, that is Mr Sibanyoni has rejoined us in place of Dr Tsotsi.  Would you please place yourself on record?

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you, Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee.  I am John Wills, attorney from Pietermartizburg.  I'm representing all three applicants in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson, I'm Lula Mtanga, the Evidence Leader and I will be appearing on behalf of the victims in this matter, thank you.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Just for the benefit of the Committee, what we intend doing in this application is leading the evidence of Izak Shange initially and then he will be followed by Jabulani Tunene Ncokwane and finally it will be Jabulani Dota Cele.  Then maybe, depending on how things proceed, there may be a witness in addition to that, but that decision will be made depending on how the evidence proceeds.  Thank you.  May I commence by calling Mr Shange?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: (sworn states)

MR SIBANYONI: Please be seated.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  May I proceed, Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: You may.

MR WILLS: Mr Shange, you completed an amnesty application on the 13th of September 1996, at Westville Prison.  I've been through that application with you, do you confirm the contents contained in that application?

MR LAX: Sorry, I notice he's not wearing any headphones, would someone just assist him there please.
MR LAX EXPLAINS INTERPRETATION EQUIPMENT TO WITNESS

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Shange, you completed an application form for amnesty on the prescribed form on the 13th day of September 1996, at Westville Prison, do you recall doing that?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now do you confirm the contents of that application?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, I'm referring to the document that is at page 43 to page 55 of the bundle, and the translation thereof commences at page 36.

CHAIRPERSON: There's one slight problem, that the translation for some reason does not include the  translation of pages 48, 49 to 50.

MR WILLS: Yes, Mr Chairperson, I need to have a look at that.  We have made a further statement, which I think goes into some detail, but is that translation not available at all?

CHAIRPERSON: We spoken to the translators here.  They have read it and they are prepared to translate it into the record now.

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I have drawn their attention to the fact though, that if you look at your record, at page 48, you will see the page is marked 8.

MR WILLS: 8, ja.

CHAIRPERSON: At page 49, it is marked 7 and at page 50 it is marked 6.  The three pages have been filed in the wrong order, but I have asked the young lady who is doing the interpreting, if she would start at page 50, 49, 48, to get it in the order it apparently should be.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I'm indebted to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you assist us in that way, please.

INTERPRETER: We are about to finish, we haven't yet.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, I propose that we stand down until such time as that translation is completed.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that is only fair that it should be, it should have been made available to you very much earlier, but it should be on record before the witness is asked to testify about it.  So we will take a further adjournment and let the young lady get on with it.  As I told them, when they came to see us they thought it was going to be an easy task, but the handwriting is not the best handwriting that I have seen and it's obviously taking some time to read.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn further.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that the passage that we requested of the application has now been interpreted and we have all been served with a copy of that.  I would like to place on record my gratitude, that of my Committee, and I'm sure that of all other parties to the young ladies concerned who had to do something far away from their normal duties.  We are all very, very grateful to you.
	Right, can we now proceed, we now have a properly interpreted copy of the statement that he has already confirmed having made.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I take it that you don't want this read into the record, there's no longer any need?

CHAIRPERSON: There's no need, we now have a written copy which we will merely insert into the record. The pages are numbered 6, 7 and 8 and will take the part of numbers 48, 49 and 50. Oh, sorry, I'm wrong there, that will be in at page 39(a), (b) and (c).

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Shange, you've confirmed making these statements in support of your amnesty application, I want to deal briefly with your background.  Now can you tell us when you were born and what educational standard you achieved when you left school.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Can I explain?

MR WILLS: Go ahead please.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: I was born in 1974, March 15.  I went up to standard five in 1992 - my apology there, standard five in 1991.

MR WILLS: Now it's clear from your statements that you were an ANC supporter, can you tell the Committee when you became an ANC supporter?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Go ahead.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: In 1991.

MR WILLS: And what made you become an ANC supporter?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: It was the organisation which I liked.  I liked the policies of the ANC, because it was fighting for human rights.  That is why I decided to join the ANC.

MR WILLS: And after you joined the ANC, you became involved in this incident which occurred on the 27th of April 1992, is that correct?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: That's correct.

MR WILLS: And you admitted having taken part in the incident where six people were killed and eight people were injured?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Prior to discussing the incident, can you tell us the background, the political background in the area in which you were residing?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And I just want you to commence from the part in your statement where you mention that a meeting was addressed by Nkosi Hlengwa.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: In 1991, we were told that there was a meeting at the chief's place, Chief Hlengwa.  I joined the people who were going to the meeting.  We were together with other people and these people were armed. ANC supporters didn't go to this meeting.  I went and I joined other people who were going to this meeting.

MR WILLS: I'm just going to interrupt you, why did you go to this meeting if, as you say, you were an ANC supporter?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: The reason I went to this meeting is I found that there were other people who were going to this meeting and people were told that they should go to this meeting, all of them.  	We went to this meeting.  When we arrived at the chief's place - I left while the meeting was still on, I went back home and other people were still in that meeting.  I ate and then I left home.  When I was in the street, these people came back from the meeting and gunshots were fired.
	When they arrived near my place, they said they've seen a war.  They said we should go to this war.  I wasn't armed.  I took a stick.  I joined these people to go and attack. When they arrived there they didn't enter the place, but gunshots were fired and the people who were there had already ran away.

MR WILLS: Whose place was attacked and why was it attacked, in your opinion?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: It was Lapagama'a house.

MR WILLS: Can you give his full name please.

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Lapagama Izak Shange.

MR WILLS: Is he also known as Master Shange?

IZAK MHLAKOLA SHANGE: Yes.