Human Rights Violation Hearings — Winelands — 1996-10-14

MS PHIKE: On the 1st of May we were organizing a May Day Rally.  We were restricted just after we finished our arrangements.  In the morning we got some other restrictions saying that we mustn't go on.  We phoned our lawyers and they referred us to the Chief Magistrate to ask for permission.  There was a bus full of youth who were arrested, there was one of them that I knew very well, that he was not even involved.  But when I asked, I quarreled with a policeman.  We were fighting at this policeman who said I - I should be taken to the cell.

REV XUNDU: Did this all happen in May?

MS PHIKE: Yes, that was the reason for my second arrest.  I spent a night there - I was released on free bail the next morning.  On the 11th of September 1990 - 1986 a State of Emergency was declared.  Unfortunately my cousin had passed away, I was still busy with arrangements of his funeral.  The following day the police came and took people to arrest them.  I left for Johannesburg - I didn't appear in court on the 17th of July.  I spent 3 months in Gauteng, in Oakeland Park, with my friend who was a doctor.  
I was arrested on the morning of the 22nd of September in Gauteng.  One investigator by the name of Pam came, he demanded my ID, I didn't want to give him my ID.  He demanded the address, he showed me the proof that he was an investigator from John Vorster Square.  He asked me if I was aware that I'm wanted - I'm a wanted.  I said yes and then he asked me the reason but I didn't tell about the Statement of Emergency.  I told him that I quarreled with a policeman - he took me with him.  I was on the way to the meeting in I&J - at least when the phone rang I could tell them I was arrested.  I went to John Vorster Square.

REV XUNDU: Did you come back here?

MS PHIKE: Yes, I came back to Paarl.  I spent something like a month - on that particular night was interrogated by Le Roux.  They asked me about people who are in Lusaka.

REV XUNDU: What do you mean when you say you were tortured?

MS PHIKE: I was not tortured, I was interrogated on that particular night.  Just before I went to sleep I told him that go officially to Lusaka for other things that are - are connected to the FAWU.  When my lawyer arrived I told them that I'm arrested for a  criminal offense because I quarreled with a policeman.  My lawyer told the Magistrate that my case should be only one.  I'm not - I was not there for political reasons but it was a criminal offense.
 And then they said if it's political related, I must - I must be - the charge must be changed.  Then they said I must stay something like month in jail.  I spent a month - I was there - I arrived on the 22nd of October until 22nd - 22nd of October until the 23rd.  
 Ntemi had a child with a lady from Fort Beaufort, fortunately this girl came to look for Ntemi, but unfortunately Ntemi was dead.  I knew very well that Ntemi had a child, some where there.  My aim was to take this child and help him at school.

REV XUNDU: Where is this child now?

MS PHIKE: The child is with me because I think the mother felt uncomfortable, because I didn't have a son and she left her child with me.  And her child is 11 years old now.

REV XUNDU: You've told us the story that shows that in your community there was conflict.  Are there efforts now that could lead you to reconciliation?

MS PHIKE: No efforts - there were no efforts, but we - during the elections I razed the point that the people who were oppressing us, who never apologized will never be our leaders.

REV XUNDU: You mean you have a wish that something should be done so that it could bring about reconciliation?

MS PHIKE: My wish is that the people just before they  -  [indistinct] the people who are going to be our leaders, they must first talk to the people who are oppressing us as we were fighting for our freedom.
 I'm talking about the AZAPO organization and UDF.

REV XUNDU: AZAPO?

MS PHIKE: I'm talking about the AZAPO people who never came to apologize who are also enjoying the results of our freedom.  We just want them to come and apologize so that we could be at peace.

REV XUNDU: Do you have any wishes - what wishes do you have and request that you have to the Commission?

MS PHIKE: There's a lot that I wish because what I was fighting for was freedom so that we can follow the freedom charter that the leaders who are going to lead who are going to lead to community are going to work according to your needs after liberation.  
Right now I'm going to ask because of that kind of a situation that I don't even have a house now with my children.

REV XUNDU: Your son Zhukile - the one that you've mentioned in your statement, how old is he?

MS PHIKE: Zhukile is 19 years  full, he'll be 20 on the 21st of November.  The one who was mostly affected - though I was not sure that he was clever enough to see, he didn't have any improvement at school.  I took him to the doctor, the doctor said he thinks to much.  
 When the doctor ask him, he said his mother is arrested and he told him - he told - the doctor told me that I'm involved in the struggle and I be arrested time and again so nothing is going to change.  And them we decided that he must leave school.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mamma, you're going to hand over to Boniswa now.  You are also going to add on the story of Lizzy Phike about the killing of the people of that area, which - so I would ask you to briefly tell us more and tell us who was Mr Mandula, who was Rasta so that we should get your story very well.  You should mainly emphasize on the PAC or should we say PAC and AZAPO.  We're working together with the same thing.

MS SISHUBA: I think I was going to give a picture of how this all happened so that you can also make out what actually happened.  
In 1985  [indistinct] shack was burnt and that is when the conflict started.  On a Sunday morning we saw a group of young boys going to some house where Rasta lived and they were shouting saying that the UDF members were responsible for the burning of the shack and a child had died.
Now I couldn't identify this young boys but the old people who had lost their children were up and about and he was amongst these young boys.  And he was shouting to and I was also attracted by a pregnant young boy - girl by the name of Nontando Matigani and I focused on them.  
They moved on to another house that belonged to a UDF house - member but no one took notice of all this  because no one expected that there was going to be so much damage.  So that very same night Rasta was chased and he was hurt and died.

REV XUNDU: And did Rasta have a home and parents there?

MS SISHUBA: Rasta originally came from Cape Town, he was just a visitor.  I had seen him only for two days.

REV XUNDU: So Rasta was killed that night?

MS SISHUBA: Yes, after his death these young boys were escorted by police van and provoking people in the location and people noticed all this and they started to defend themselves.  And that is when tear gas was sprayed and there was a confusion in the location.  And this really disturbed me and I wished that the police could stop all this because I could anticipate that many people were going to die from all this.

REV XUNDU: By the way you say there was  [indistinct] Williams , Yabo and Thembisele Ngehu who were this?

MS SISHUBA: [indistinct] Williams is a one witness where Rasta went to and was - in whose house he was hacked.  And I think he knows who actually killed Rasta.

REV XUNDU: And so you saw that the police was not involved, what steps did you take as women?