Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-13

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you so much Mr Clarence.  We welcome the lady on your left.  Is she a family member?

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Sorry, can you can speak a little louder?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I say we welcome the lady on your left.  Is she a family member?  That is the lady sitting.

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Yes, it is my wife.

THOMAS MANTHATA: We welcome you Mrs Clarence.  Mr Clarence this conditions of employment which denied one compensation, were these or are these known to most of the civil services say in the Air Force in the Defence Force, whatever.

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Definitely not.  In fact, even certain Generals, Brigadiers, Generals, Colonels, senior officers in the Air Force with whom I worked could not believe it that I had suddenly been treated as a worker and not as an Officer, as a soldier.  One of the excuses, apparently, that came from the Accident Commissioner is that had Pretoria been considered an operational area I would have been considered to have been on duty 24 hours a day.  It, we can obviously see that from the freedom struggle point of view, Pretoria certainly was an operational area, but from the Defence Force point of view at the time, the only operational area we had was up in Northern Ovamboland and that was also one of the technical problems.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes, then the question of your documents
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being, whether shredded, destroyed and what not, how does the present Defence Ministry view that kind of a situation of documents of Officers being destroyed?  More especially those who had a cause against the State?

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Sir, I am not too sure.  I do not think the, my personal documents within the Defence Force archives itself were destroyed.  The records, apparently, at the Accident Commissioner, a sub-section of the Workmen's Compensation division of the, which I believe falls under now the Department of Health and Population Development or Health and Welfare, those records are apparently being destroyed.  So the case I had made against the Accident Commissioner in claiming for compensation, his records, the Accident Commissioner's records have been destroyed or so they claim.  Whether they have been destroyed is, I cannot confirm it.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Have you any idea of how many of your candidates, that is in this whole company of computer for the disabled, come from, say the, army or these could be the people who were involved, you know, in the previous Government?

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Are you asking me do I, are some of our clients from, disabled clients from the former freedom forces?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Let me even say from the former people who were in the Government at the time not necessarily those who were freedom fighters before.

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Well, very, very few.  It is a company.  We formed a company to deal with people irrespective of where they come from and irrespective of their background or their present.  We deal with clients who have been injured and
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disabled, obviously, in civilian incidences, non-military related incidences from throughout Africa.  In fact it has given me, it has been quite a rewarding experience, I think, to be able to assist people from the former MK and even from APLA, people who became disabled either in action against the former Security Forces or in accidents whilst in service for MK or APLA.  Disability is a great bonding mechanism between human beings and I have had the pleasure of being able to assist, as I say, people who have actually been injured as well, just as I have in bomb explosions, but people who have worse from the so called enemy forces of the past.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You have truly a source of strength and support.  I thank you.  I have no further questions Mr Clarence.

MR MALAN: I have no questions, thank you Mr Clarence.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Clarence, I want to thank you for coming before the Commission to relate your experience and I think that some of the things that you have said have been a privilege to actually listen to them.  Your ability to put the conflict into a perspective which you want to see contribute towards an understanding rather than bitterness and recrimination.  Your ability to show initiative and compassion.  There are two things which I think are very important in your testimony.  The one is in the next, in next week there are going to be submissions from all political parties including the ANC and I am sure that some of the issues that we have been dealing with yesterday and today and throughout the life of the Commission will be part of those submissions as well as submissions from other political organisations which we hope will give us a better
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understanding of the conflict and all its sides.  
 The other issue is the challenge, I think, that we are all being asked to face on reparation and rehabilitation and, particularly, your case of your struggle for compensation which you believed that you were entitled to.  I think on that issue the most that we could probably do is support and forward your request.  The area that we are really concerned about is reparations and rehabilitation and I think it is stories like yours which make it such a challenge for the Commission when it considers a policy on reparations and rehabilitation.  Once again thanks very much for coming forward to share your experiences with us.  Thank you.

NEVILLE JAMES CLARENCE: Thank you very much.
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