Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, I thought you were going to give us a little   time so we would have had some questions, now you have about five minutes. Do   you want to get to a proper full stop.

MR D K KOKA: Yes. Well let me for a final thing to saythis is the philosophy   of Ubuntu, which we think the TRC as a structure when it stops being a commission   but declare itself into an institute to carry on this philosophy of humanness   to all over. Can I put a stop there? Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Wonderful. That is a very nice place for a full stop. If you would   please switch off your - thank you very much. Thomas?

THOMAS MANTHATA: How do you see all what you are saying, you know being either   crystallised to be handed over to any structure that shall be implementing what   the TRC shall have recommended to the State?

MR D K KOKA: We have already tried by all means to actualise it, that is we   are giving now lectures even in universities. We are giving lectures and mostly   amongst the workers and where companies were, this is being preached, we see   a difference. For the whole thing is that the employee and the employer must   recognise themselves as but one, belonging to one humanity. What I am saying   is a result of the field work that we are doing at the moment.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Is there no way that this could be so simplified that it could   be taught either in the families or even at schools? At the lower levels, because   this is where we are being confronted by real moral decay.

MR D K KOKA: This is where we are inviting the TRC as a commission to embrace   the philosophy and to work with us in simplifying that philosophy for acceptance.   Anyway, just how are we going to say it, because amongst the black community,   that philosophy is there, is operating. Among the white community, we are still   to prove that they are one with us. And that this philosophy is not a peculiarity   of the African people but as created beings, I do believe that the divine spirit   was breathed into their nostrils.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You keep saying "we" are you perhaps an institution   of some kind, with scholars or with people who have learnt with clear understanding   of what you are talking about, to transmit it to the communities?

MR D K KOKA: I belong to the transformation forum of South Africa, which we   are extending into Africa and also I belong to the Ubuntu school of philosophy   and all of us we are trying to do research that we take it upon ourselves to   propagate this philosophy. Let me say to you we failed in the past, simply because   we were not doing our own work. We realise that as long as the lions, we say   until the lions can have their own historians, tales of hunting will always   glorify the hunter. Until we, ourselves, can take it upon ourselves to bring   out our philosophies and concepts we shall always be underdogs.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Dada we are very deeply gratefulare   you distributing?

MR D K KOKA: Sorry Mr Chairman. I did not submit my - because I said I'm never   sure of what I will say until I have said it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much. We appreciate - we hope you will be   able to remember what you said and can write it down. I just wanted to welcome   the wife of the Premier of this province, Mrs Namitha Stofile. Andimboni kodwa.   Ungaphakama? Mamakutheni? We are going to have a slight change in the   programme. Bishop Leghanyane has arrived in town, but the person who is bringing   his mission is I think still in Gauteng or somewhere and can arrive here only   about 4'o clock or so, so we will have to switch and have Bishop Lekganyane   tomorrow. We'll have to look to see whether we might not have one other group   that might be ready to come in today. If not, well we will have a bonus, en   ons kan gaan slaap!
Can we stand, now you will remember that we said yesterday that there is lunch   first for those who are designated guests and then others. Let us say grace.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS.

CHAIRPERSON: I think I should do this more frequently, and I am very sorry   I was unavoidably delayed. I apologise. We will ask now the two representatives,   Archbishop Ntongana - four? You have multiplied into four? You will introduce   your colleagues and whilst they go up to the podium so to say, Archbishop Ntongana   had already indicated to me that he wants to speak in Xhosa, and what is going   to happen is that these wonderful people who deal with the technical side, are   going to put the English translation through the loudspeakers so you don't need   to have the contraption. Thank you very much, we'll see how that works. Let's   just see how that works.
Archbishop you will please introduce your colleagues to us.

ARCHBISHOP T W NTONGANA: Chairperson and your colleagues, next to me I have   the General Secretary of the Council of African Instituted Churches, the Reverend   Molisiwa. Next to him, they have just joined me, I will ask them to introduce   themselves. 
REV.

GCALASHE: I am Reverend Gcalashe.
REV.

JONASHE: Reverend Jonashe.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Could you please stand up to take the oath?
ADMINISTERS OATH.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your presence here. We know your contribution   to the church even during the time of the struggle for liberation. We are very   grateful to you and hand over to you Archbishop.

ARCHBISHOP T W NTONGANA: Mr Chairperson of the Commission, and all those that   are next to you. It is a great joy to us and a privilege to be called here.   This was a sudden thing to us, a sudden invitation. We could have been a great   number is we were invited in time. What would have been very good our children   were going to come here with their congregation uniform. I thought I was in   Khotso House here when I looked at this platform. I feel at home now. We were   very busy Mr Chairperson during the very difficult time, especially from 1976   to 1988. However, because of the SACC, as we are also members of the SACC, our   problem was not clear, because we are not standing on our own, but standing   with other churches that members of the SACC. I won't be very long, the gentleman   next to me the Reverend, will speak in English. My ancestors, my clan, refused   that I write down a submission. We are people who believe in ancestors, we don't   hide it. We are people who believe in ancestors. We are people of the people.   This is why we can heal people. We are able to heal. We pray for people we lay   hands on them, we give them water, they are healed. This is the Zionist Church.   Some of your own members, Mr Chairperson come to us in the dark and they go   back to you in daylight, to your church. That's good to us, because that makes   us one. It is uniting because our churches are different. 
If the Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Dr Beyers Naude were not there, the cart   would not be there. They started the cart together when the empire of ...[inaudible]   was destroyed. It was very poor, had nothing. We still are very poor, we still   don't have anything. We don't have an office, we have a shack within the office   of the bible college, Ikhanya. We are asking for help from anyone who is able   to do so. We don't even have a pencil or piece of papers.

CHAIRPERSON: Archbishop, we did not give you this opportunity to make an appeal   for your church. Please tell us more about your work.