Special Hearings — Trojan Horse Hearings — 1997-06-02

MS ABRAHAMS: That afternoon I took my children to the muslim school to (???). It was Toyer and Ashraf that I took. There was nothing in the road, it was a normal day. There were no children, many children in the roads. While I was taking my children to the muslim school, I would always go to Mrs Ryklief, we're like sisters to each other. I had taken my two children to the muslim school and returned. While I took them to the muslim school, I saw a casper standing on, at a certain point. I returned, they were at the muslim school. I was visiting with Mrs Ryklief as I did every afternoon.I always walked with my children, I accompanied them to school. I did not allow them to go on their own to school or to the muslim school. I was sitting at Mrs Ryklief's house, we  were sitting around there and then suddenly, there were many students and school children from all over and the road was packed with these young people. I then said to Mrs Ryklief, I'm going to fetch my children at the muslim school, and then she said - no, don't go - she'll go. I said " No, I will go and fetch them, you are too old."
 I then walked down Thornton Road. There were many children in the road already. I went to the muslim school and I went to ask the ghaliefa, if I could not take my children from there. She asked me if I was alright, and I said - I'll be okay now that I'm inside the house. The casper was still standing where it had been standing. There were many police in it. I was not looking at that, because I was too frightened.
 The seghtif, the principle of the muslim school, said to me - and that was segh Amie - He asked me if I was okay. And I said yes, I'm fine but I'm going to take Ashraf, Toyer, Shihaam, and another girl, who's name I can't remember at the moment. It was a child that their mother was looking after. I took these four children. The segh then said to me "Wait, I will go with you." And the principle segh Amie then walked with me to the corner. He  saw the casper standing there. With the four children, I then walked to Mrs Ryklief's home.
 Upon my arrival at that house, I said to her I'm frightened, I want to go home. She then said to me "Amina you can't go home with these two small children." Because there were children from all over, a variety of schools and a variety of places were standing around in the road. I said to her " I want to go home. She then said to me "No, you can't go home."
 I then panicked, because I said to her mother, I've got a premonition, something is going to go wrong in this road. She then said to me "No Amina, you have to stay here in the house, you can't go to your house now with these small children. We then stood there, and then Mrs Ryklief's mother went to prepare for Selah her sister who was there. We were sitting in the kitchen. I could not take it an longer, I said to her I want to go. I then went to the kitchen window to peer through the window and then I heard the shooting. I fell down in the kitchen. I was not sure where my children were. I had such a big fright. I then went to fetch them, I brought them into the house and I was lying down. Then I stood up and I was screaming, I was shouting "Ghowah, where are my children? Where is Ashraf?" - he was a six year old at the time, he was the smallest and I had to go and help him. This was a small kitchen, these are servant quarters, there is no room to run around in the building. 
 I then went through and I saw my friend, Jainap, standing at the door, and her sister was holding me back. I said to her - I must go and get Ashraf. She said to me - Amina look how they're shooting into the house. She made me to bend down and we were in a crushed position. Just as we were crushing down the shots went over our heads. You can still see in that building how it went because, then I was convinced that if I stood up I would be shot and I was convinced they would shoot my child. 
 After the shooting, I realised that I had to run to go and get Ashraf. The children were running all over. I was looking for the two of them. I saw Ashraf crying for me. I collected him. I could not see that they were bleeding, because of the colour of their clothing. They were wearing these maroon jerseys and black pants. I had a.........
......was holding Toyer and Ashraf in my arms, I was lying with them in my arms, and I was screaming for help. 
 As I was screaming for help, Jainap was screaming "Help me, help me."
I was shouting - Jainap help me, help me. She said to me "I'm your friend but I cannot help you." So I was lying there with the two children in my arms. I then looked on the one hand and I saw Ismail under the dressing table with blood. I looked up at Shaun, I saw him lying at the head of the bed. I looked at Toyer and Ashraf was crying. I then said softly - he's probably crying from the pain. Then he asked me, the last words that Toyer asked was "Are you okay?" That's what I heard. I looked at Ismail and asked Ismail ....   Then Toyer said "I'm okay." Ashraf was screaming. He looked around and he said, I then heard him, and I must say it - "The struggle must continue." Then his eyes turned around. I did not realise that he was dying. He fell backward, when he fell backward, I saw the policeman come into the room. I think he was wearing green army clothes. He came at me, he pointed his machine gun at me. I was lying with my two children, I was screaming. He was pointing the rifle at me and I was convinced that he would kill everyone in the house. 
 He was keeping the rifle pointed at me. He came towards me and Ismail under the dressing table. Then the one policeman was standing there, I can remember very clearly what he looked like. He was wearing a short sleeve blue shirt and blue pants. He was standing next to Mrs Ryklief. When he saw me still screaming for help - they didn't want us to use the phone or allow anyone into the house. He then, this person then said to me not to panic. He came closer to me, he took the phone and said he would phone the ambulance. I don't want to speak in his favour, maybe he's one of the guilty people from the truck but if it was not for him, we would all have been shot dead in that house. I think he felt that he is also a father of children, when he saw my two small children screaming, when he saw me screaming for help, when he looked and came closer to me and said "Don't panic." - then this big fat person let his gun down. Then they phoned the ambulance.
 I was still lying there screaming, I said I could not carry both of my children out. I had Ashraf and I think that one of the students from Sinton took Toyer in his arms. I was in the front and we got into the ambulance and there Mr Ryklief was at the door of the ambulance. I was inside the ambulance with my two children and he said that he wants to get in. I shouted from the ambulance "..... don't. They're going to kill you, they're going to shoot you." He had a knife in his hand and he said "I will kill you"
They did not want to allow him in. He wanted to get into the ambulance to assist us. The two policeman wearing blue, with blue jerseys were standing at the door of the ambulance and this is Mrs Ryklief's husband, ...., He wanted to get in, he was carrying, he picked up his rifle and then I shouted "Don't they will kill you." They would not allow him in and he then went away. We then left in the ambulance. We were standing for a long time in Thornton Road because the vehicle could not get through. There were all vehicles there, vans and caspers of the police and the ambulance could not get through to go to the hospital.
 When we arrived at the hospital, it was either Somerset or Groote Schuur, the two ambulances were following each other. When I got out, I was carrying Ashraf, someone else was carrying Toyer, I don't know who this was, I was too confused. Ashraf was my baby, he was only six years old. I was covered in blood. We had to rush to rescue him. When we entered the surgery at either Somerset or Groote Schuur, they said that they couldn't do anything for Ashraf. I left my one child at the hospital, that was Toyer, and then they rushed me to the Red Cross Hospital, the Red Cross Children's Hospital. When we arrived at the Red Cross Hospital, they took him into the theatre and then the principal of the school was there and he stayed there with me. When I put my child onto the bed, then the white doctor asked me "Where were you standing with your stone?" So I asked him - Would you send your child of six or seven years out with a stone? There's my child, on the verge of death, and he's asking me this question.
 They then called for the nurses, they were not helping my child yet, they wanted to know where he was standing with his stone. When he said this, I went hysterical. I did not know what happened to Ashraf then. The principal took me out. The other child was at the other hospital, so I had one child at the Red Cross Hospital, this was Ashraf, and Toyer was at the other hospital.
 I cannot recall how I returned to Mrs Ryklief's house. .......................
At Mrs Ryklief's home when I arrived there, I don't know who brought me there but Ashraf was still at the Red Cross. I can't remember how Toyer got back there, he had to return to the hospital later. I think my husband came there. They couldn't wait for him to sign before they operated, so they just had to do it. He was shot from an inch within his heart and his pulse and his lungs, his wrist. He had a lot of buckshot in his body. They took the larger kernels out. He was lying in the Red Cross Hospital for maybe a month, maybe two months, as far as I can remember. 
 There were many lawyers who came there but I can't remember any of their names, but a Mr Moosa came. They took us to Athlone, they asked us questions and while I was there they, I received a message about Ashraf and then I became hysterical. I had to have an injection because I was so entirely confused and screaming, I probably became bitter again, because they told me that Ashraf had died, but it appeared that it was a false alarm, some other Ashraf was killed but it was not my child that died. Then we became very ill. Vivian, sitting next to me, took us to a psychiatrist, for me and Mrs Ryklief. They took us there and I cannot remember what happened after that. Two or three years later, the case came to the fore again. (?) appeared in the court in Wynberg. Then they questioned Mrs Ryklief and myself. Sometimes you understand and other times you also don't understand, even the Afrikaans, one could not always understand. They asked me about, they asked me a certain question. I then did not know what they were talking about and I then said I couldn't continue, this was too complicated Afrikaans, I could not understand what they were speaking, so I did not reply any further and they took me out. And this is as far as I can remember.
 Another two or three years later, and now I want to ask a question, I want to ask the Truth Commission a question. Two or three years later, Ashraf had to go for his last operation at Gatesville and it was a white person, maybe a doctor, maybe someone else who took me to Gatesville. In the court case I had to appear again at ten o'clock at the Supreme Court in Cape Town, but eight o'clock that morning it was his last operation. This is probably two or three years after the shooting, I mean the case came before the court again. After they did that operation, the doctor showed me a small white container, they said they only shot buckshot but to prove to the court that they also shot real bullets, there was this evidence in Ashraf. Until today I don't know who's plan it was to do the operation, but the doctor showed me it was a large as indicated, it looked like a smartie, this bullet that was contained in this white container. I had to stay at Gatesville, the doctor rushed away to take this bullet to the Supreme Court. And until today, I don't know who paid for that operation, who's plan was it to take the child to the operation again. Until today he's not able to learn, he's not really had the opportunity to go to school. My husband has tried to get him into this particular place but the more I tell him that it's because of the shooting that, and the school just does not believe me, they did not want to give him an opportunity in life. They then said at that time, that was under the white government, this particular place, and they would not accept him, so until today he's not been back at school yet.
 He works with my brother-in-law, but he's not a child that he could have been. Until today he's still got a bullet in his leg, which is lying on a nerve, according to the doctor. He could not operate to remove this because that would have done him considerable damage. Until today, I do not know who did the operation. I would like to know where that real bullet has gone that they showed in the Supreme Court. I don't know what happened to that. 
 Gatesville was still a very new hospital, it was two or three years after the event that they did that last operation, for the sake of evidence for the court. I saw it and I realised that it was a white person with grey hair, who took the bullet to the Supreme Court. From what I can deduce the one policeman that I knew who visited my house he had the surname of Steyn, he was an old man with white hair and everyday he came with a white typewriter, he wanted to interrogate me. I never gave him answers to his questions. He always watched me, and he also went to Mrs Ryklief's house. 
 My eldest son is married. We're still friends. I still go to Mrs Ryklief's house.