Amnesty Hearings — Kroonstad — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Were you at school?

B J MPONDO: No, I had left school by that time.

UNKNOWN: In what standard were you when you left school?

B J MPONDO: I was in Std 7.

UNKNOWN: At which school were you?

B J MPONDO: I was at (inaudible) School in Viljoenskroon.

UNKNOWN: When this incident happened where were youstaying?

B J MPONDO: I was staying in Pumulung.  That was athome.

UNKNOWN: Where were you staying?

B J MPONDO: I was staying in Pumulung(?).

UNKNOWN: Do you mean Pumulung Location at Maokeng?

B J MPONDO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Were you ever taking part in a certain politicalorganisation?

B J MPONDO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Which organisation is that?

B J MPONDO: It is the ANC.

UNKNOWN: In which way did you enter the ANC?

B J MPONDO: I became a member of this political organisation.

UNKNOWN: Were you in the ANC organisation or wereyou another part of the ANC?

B J MPONDO: I was in the ANC organisation.

UNKNOWN: Do you know of the ANC Youth League?

B J MPONDO: Yes, I know the ANC Youth League.  I wasa member of the ANC Youth League.

UNKNOWN: In the membership in the ANC Youth League,were you in any committee or were you just an ordinary member?

B J MPONDO: I was just an ordinary member.

UNKNOWN: Now coming to this incident which you werefound guilty of.  It happened on the 11th May 1991.

B J MPONDO: No, it happened on the 4th May 1991.

CHAIRPERSON: His application form shows the other date, the11th May.

UNKNOWN: I say the 11th May because in your letterof plea for amnesty you say this incident happened on the 11thMay 1991.  Maybe you made a mistake there.

B J MPONDO: Yes,  it was a mistake.  It happened onthe 11th May, not on the 4th - on the 4th, not on the 11th.

UNKNOWN: We heard testimony regarding the 3 milliongang.  Do you know of that?

B J MPONDO: Yes, I know the 3 million gang.

UNKNOWN: We also heard testimony that there wereunits, which were called SDUs that were formed.

B J MPONDO: Yes, I know about that.

UNKNOWN: Did you ever take part in this unit?

B J MPONDO: Yes, I was a member of the SDU.

UNKNOWN: Were you a member of this ANC wing, in whicharea were you?  Because it seems there were many units.

B J MPONDO: I was at Pumulung.

UNKNOWN: Then on the 4th May 1991 this incident happened. Can you please explain to the Committee what happened on thatday.

B J MPONDO: On the 4th May, it was on a Saturday.  Iwas together with one of my comrades at home.  When we were stillat home a girl arrived at home and she said to me there is a kombiwhich has brought about two 3 million members near the church. At that time Comrade Tsediso was still washing in the house. I thanked the girl for what she told me and I said to her I willprotect myself.  She then went away.  After a long period Tsietsiearrived together with his other friend whom I don't know.  I leftthem outside the house and I went to tell Tsediso that Tsietsieis here and he is with the other friend, I don't know.  I alsotold him about what I heard from this other girl before Tsietsiearrived.  I then went back to Tsietsie and when I got outsideTsietsie was alone and his friend was not there.  I asked himTsietsie where is your friend?  And he said he is visiting hisrelative.  I don't know where they are.  And then I went to comradeTsietsie and told him to get into the house.  I showed him toTsediso and Tsediso came to see him and then we sat down.  Andthen I left the house with Tsediso to go and talk to him.  Whilewe were still talking and telling him about what happened ComradeDaniel also arrived.  Comrade Daniel's spirit was high.  He lookedlike a person who was scared, and he said to me he saw the 3 millionkombi passing at my workplace and in the kombi I saw Tsietsie. I asked him Tsietsie and he said yes.  I then asked him further,are you sure of what you are saying and he said yes, I saw TsietsieI know him very well.  And then I said to him Tsietsie is in thehouse.  And he got shocked when he heard that.  And then I saidto them, what we have to do is to take Tsietsie to our comradesso that he can explain what is happening.  And then we took comradeTsietsie.  It was the three of us, together with Daniel and comradeTsietsie was fourth person and then we went away with him to lookfor our comrades.  We were told that our comrades were at PiedPiper and we went there.  On the way some of our other comradesjoined us and they were surprised why we were accompanying Tsietsieas they know he was a member of the 3 million gang.  And thenwe went to the club where we found the other comrades but theynever listened to us.  They chased us away.

UNKNOWN: Can you please explain what the club is?

B J MPONDO: It is a drinking place.  It is a nightclub.

UNKNOWN: Can you continue please?

B J MPONDO: When we got there the comrades never listenedto us.  They said we have to leave the place because that placewasn't okay for our comrades.  Because there are other comradesamong us who are being looked for by the police.  Therefore thepolice are still inspecting that area.  Then we left and we wentto another tavern which is called Jack Nose.  It is also a shebeen. When we got there I found the comrades there and I asked them,please comrades, I want to go home together with you so that wecan solve this issue of Tsietsie and then they agreed to comewith me.  We left the place and on the way one of the comrades,it was Tsediso or Daniel who informed the other comrades we foundat Jack Nose of what happened.  He said when (inaudible) at home. On the way one of the comrades asked Tsietsie how did he getto my place and who was with him.  (Indistinct) answering thatTsietsie tried to run away and we chased him until at a housebetween the school and the Roman Church.  We got him out of thehouse and we never asked him anything, and then we started stabbinghim with knives.

UNKNOWN: What happened after you stabbed him?  Didyou go to the police to tell them about what you did?

B J MPONDO: No, we went away.  I never went to the police.

UNKNOWN: After how long were you arrested?

B J MPONDO: I was arrested on the 10th June of the verysame year, that is 1991.

UNKNOWN: In this case at court, did you find yourselfguilty?

B J MPONDO: No, I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: What does that mean, when you say "he foundhimself guilty"?

UNKNOWN: Sir, I don't know whether the question wasinterpreted correctly, because I said as far as the indictmentwas concerned, were you found guilty?  Were you found guilty forwhat you did?

B J MPONDO: Yes, I was found guilty.

UNKNOWN: After you were found guilty, did you everstop to think about what you did?

B J MPONDO: Yes, I did, and I regretted what I did. But I didn't do this intentionally.   That was the situationthat was reigning in Maokeng that caused me to do that.

UNKNOWN: If you estimate, how old was the deceased?

B J MPONDO: He was still young by that time, but I don'tknow exactly how to estimate his years.

UNKNOWN: Was he older than you or was he youngerthan you?

B J MPONDO: I would say he was older than me.

UNKNOWN: The people who stabbed him, among the peoplewho stabbed him, are you the only person who was found guilty?

B J MPONDO: No, there was two of us, me and ComradePatrick Serola(?).

UNKNOWN: Was he also found guilty?

B J MPONDO: Yes, he was also found guilty.

UNKNOWN: Where is he now?

B J MPONDO: He is still in gaol, that is here in Kroonstad.

UNKNOWN: You will remember that you were told atthe beginning that in order to be afforded amnesty you have toshow that the act you did you perpetrated under political influence.

B J MPONDO: Yes.

UNKNOWN: We now hear that someone was running awayand you chased him and you stabbed him.  To chase a person, apprehendhim and stab him, how does that come in line with politics?