Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-27

MR BERGER: Besides Themba Mabota and your sister, Nongeba, there's no other member of your family who was killed?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, no-one else was killed in my family.

MR BERGER: You never saw your brother when you were leaving Boipatong?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not see him.

MR BERGER: You never saw him firing at the military vehicles?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I never saw him, I don't want to associate myself with that, because I did not see him.

MR BERGER: You never heard about that either?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I first got this information here, this information about my brother shooting.

MR BERGER: So you went to Boipatong to restore what you had lost?   You went to burn down a house and to kill a baby?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is correct, Mr Berger, because this is what happened to me also, I did not want to do more than what was done to me, I just wanted to show the people of Boipatong that the value of a human being should be respected, all the lives are the same, as you have mentioned that I wanted to kill a person, killing a baby is the same as killing an adult, there's no difference.

MR BERGER: Now, Richard Dlamini made a statement, at page 222, he says, second last paragraph on that page
"We went into a house.   Themba was with me."
Now that's Themba Mabota:-
"Children were crying there.   I asked the child, `Where are your parents?'   Bumbum, Thembiso Khubeka, stabbed the child with a spear."

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I did stab that child with a spear.   He is making a mistake for not mentioning the fact that I came after some time while Themba was already inside, he is making a mistake for not mentioning that part.   Let me try and rectify that.   Yes, he is telling the truth when he says that I killed a child.

MR BERGER: And he's also telling the truth that Themba Mabota was in the house when you killed the child?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I said he is making a mistake, he did not mention the time, at the time when I went into the house, while Themba Mabota was already out of the house.   I found Mr Richard Dlamini in there.   Perhaps he used the back door or the front door to exit the house, but if I met with him at the back door, I could have seen him, because I came through the kitchen door.

MR BERGER: Now, you say that the child you killed was at 743 Schloebe Street?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I am not saying anything about the house number, but I think it was in that vicinity, I think so, maybe that could be the place.

MR BERGER: There were two small girls who were killed in Slovo Park, and at the house, at a house in Schloebe Street, I won't hold you to 743, but at 765 there were two small children killed, as well as a woman.   Now the house where you killed the small girl, was there anyone else in that house who had been killed?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: It was not necessary for me to get into more houses, I did not see such a thing, I just saw this child that was talking to Richard, I went straight to that child, because he was facing the opposite direction, I just came through the kitchen door, I saw them standing at the passage and I heard Richard talking to this girl, I went straight to this child with my spear and I proceeded.

CHAIRPERSON: No, Miss Interpreter, he said, "I stabbed the child and went past", is that what you said?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes.

MR BERGER: You did not see anyone else who had been killed in that house?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: No, I did not see anyone.

MR BERGER: And when you threw a burning tyre into the other house, you did that to burn down that house as your house had been burnt down?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, as I have already mentioned that I was doing the same thing that they did to my house.   If I could, I could have burnt two houses, but I was too scared to do that.   That is why, even today I'm still frightened.

MR BERGER: And if there had been people in that house that you threw the burning tyre into, all the better, because then they could have been killed like your sister was killed?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, I want to emphasise on that one, I didn't care, as I was doing that I didn't care, because if you want the bomb to explode, it hits everything, it doesn't choose, it doesn't see the difference, that is what they did to my home, they knew very well that if you throw a bomb, it hits everything.   If I had a bomb, I would have thrown the bomb inside the house.

MR BERGER: So the more houses you could have burnt and the more children you could have killed, the better, that was your aim that night?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: That would be better, because I was doing the same thing that they did to me.   It was very painful to me to realise that my sister died in my own hands, I did not know what to do, my mother came late in the evening, she cried.

MR BERGER: Would it be correct to say, Mr Khubeka, that your reason for attacking Boipatong, and for killing that small girl... (intervention).

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I don't think that was a girl, the child was a boy.   Don't continue, don't say that the child was a girl, he was a boy.

MR BERGER: You're sure about that, it was a boy and not a girl?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Well I'm not certain, he was wearing a pair of trousers, that's why I'm saying it was a boy.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you repeat, what was he wearing?   What did you say?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: He was wearing a trouser, a pair of trousers.  If my memory serves me well, it was a corduroy, the pair of trousers was made of a corduroy material.

MR BERGER: Well I'll refer to a small child.   The reason, your reason for attacking Boipatong was in revenge for the attack on your family when your sister died?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Yes, that is true, Mr Berger, that was a revenge that was influenced by politics as they did the same to me, I was doing the same thing as them.   I want to emphasise that it was a revenge.   I left Kwamadala Hostel willingly, though I was scared, I was frightened.   If I came across a person of your stature or size, he could have easily taken the weapon or the spear away from me.

MR BERGER: So you never went out to attack people of my size, in fact you avoided people of my size and you went for the children instead?   I'm right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: Mr Berger, I still maintain, had I come across my peer, it could have been very bad, but a person of your size, really I could not have come across any person of your size, because I knew that something bad would have happened.  It's better that I only stabbed this one child, so that when I got there, I had to make sure that the child is dead, so that the parent could cry in the same way as my mother did.  That is still painful.

MR BERGER: My question is, you avoided people of my size and you concentrated on killing small children, that was your aim?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I agree with you.   You wanted him to kill me.  I could not have come to people such as, you know, of your size, because they could have taken the spear away from me.

MR BERGER: And in killing this small child, you were not furthering the aims of any political party, you were simply taking revenge for what had been done to your family, am I right?

BUMBUMONT GOMERES THEMBISO KHUBEKA: I do not concur with that.   As far as I am concerned, we were pursuing political motives, we left the township and we were dogs and we had to be sent away, myself, Thembiso Maboga, Montgomery, stabbed this child because my intention was political as they did to me.   You make me hurt when you talk about that, Mr Berger.