Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-23

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

BONGANI FINCA: We welcome you Lydia.  We also thank you for coming here before this Commission today, to come and share your painful experiences when you were tortured until today, you are what we see here in front of us.
 Thank you for, because we can see that it is not easy for you to move, but you have made it a point that you have come to appear here.  It is good that you have come here in person and not sent anyone to come and represent you, so that we don't get a report of your condition, we should see it.
 Even people here can see how people have caused damage to you.  We shall now hand over to Dr Mapula Ramashala who is going to help you and ask questions based on your statement.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Ms Nomathemba Lydia Jack, good morning.  Chairperson, as you've said before us is Ms Nomathemba Lydia Jack, she walks with difficulty, her life has been changed, and changed forever.
 She had wonderful dreams like all of us.  And as a very young woman she lost a baby.  She will tell us this morning what happened to her.  
 And I think in her story will be revealed the unique 
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way that the police tortured women.    Ms Jack, take your time and when you are ready, would you please start by telling us a little bit about yourself.
 What happened before that eventful day of September 1985?  What you were doing and what your dreams were and how they were interrupted by the conditions in South Africa.  Please proceed.

UNKNOWN: (No interpretation) ... then they used - the policemen used to come at two in the morning to our houses and then on this particular morning, Xongwani and Charles who were policemen were in the company of others, came to my grandmother's place and then they threw  away the beer that was there.
 I ultimately went to the police station and I found Zola Olivier and Awa, then I asked them what they wanted from me.
 Then they said I was a comrade from Cape Town who had come to Indwe to instigate, then I said no, all I received was just a paper that was telling me that there was a meeting to be held.
 So they took me and put me into a cell and they squeezed by breasts.  They kept me in the cell.  Whilst I was there, a policeman named Awa called me aside only to find that he wanted to rape me.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Ms Jack I know this might be very uncomfortable for you, but it is important for us to have as clear a picture as possible.  I'd like you to explain a little more by what you meant by they also pulled my breasts.
 Exactly how did they do that?

UNKNOWN: The pulling of my breasts was in, they did it
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aside, they asked me to come to them because they were calling us one by one.  What they did, they opened up my breasts and then they squeezed until my breasts, until they turned red.
 Then I told them I wanted to go to the Doctor, but they refused.  They kicked me and only allowed me to go to the hospital just once.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How many of the policemen tugged at your breasts?

UNKNOWN: There were three of them, Oliphant, Awa and Zola.  Then in 1986, whilst I was there in the cell, the policeman came at about ten and asked me said someone was calling us.
 Then I went out, only to find that there was no one actually calling me, but there was Awa standing waiting for me.  Then I screamed.   I then went back to the cell and wrote a note which I threw over.
 Then Awa asked me to keep silent and not to tell Steve, then I asked but why, then he said he would shoot me, then I wrote a note and threw it outside.
 But I kept in the cell in Dodrecht in 1986.  Christa told me that we were going to be there for 14 days and that did not happen.  We were again called one by one, there was Charles and another policeman from Queenstown.
 This policeman said, asked me what member of an organisation was I.  Then he called me a "skelm", then he said I was also an illiterate and he said I came from Cape Town and they even said "voetsek" to me and kicked me.
 Then I ignored that, they asked me who was our leader.  Then they asked me whether I knew Ringo, then I said yes.  
 They pushed me outside, kicking me.  Then outside I saw Xicka, we were moving in one by one.  We then went back to 
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the cell.
 Mchlongwane came whilst we were in the cell and then said we should pack our clothes, because we were going home.
 Then we left with the Black policemen, we were put into the van and taken to Dodrecht.  They beat us up there in Dodrecht. 
 I was pregnant then someone asked why they brought me there.  I fell down, I had problems with breathing, then Finki took me and the policemen also came and called me Mandela's dog.
 Then another policeman came to keep guard on me in hospital and handcuffed me.  Both my legs were handcuffed and could not even move, I couldn't even get to the toilet.
 Then I was given only a bed pan to use.  Then I was under Dr Pillay's care.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Ms Jack, I want you to go back when the two policewomen interrogated you.  Did you know before you were arrested, that you were expecting a baby?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I knew that I was pregnant.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: ; And how did this two policewomen find out that you were pregnant?  Did they examine you or were you showing already?

UNKNOWN: I was obvious, I was pregnant.  It happened that when I got to Queenstown, Pillay examined me and I was in a private ward, then the policemen came, one was a White, short policeman.
 They called me Mandela's dog, I even answered back and said you are also dogs.  Then they took me to the cell and beat me up.
 I couldn't walk, then they transferred me to East London and I found policemen once more.  They were White 
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policemen, they were beating me, sending me to the cells now and again.
 Whenever there was no Doctor, they would beat me and they would handcuff my legs.  I got confused, then I asked where is my child.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Before we get to the point where you loose the baby.  In your statement you say that there were several policeman who were interrogating them.  Among them was Andiwe Awa and that Mr Awa was forcing you to have sexual relations with him, am I correct?  And that when you refused, he pulled you by your hair and dragged you back to your cell, am I correct?  What happened in the cell?

UNKNOWN: In the cell I told the other girls who were sharing the cell with me, I then wrote a note and threw it over to the cell that was occupied by the males.
 I wanted Steve to read it, one of the comrades.  Then the male comrades decided to go on a hunger strike for this and it happened.
 Then even in hospital I will continue do this.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: is it true that Mr Awa stopped or was prevented from sexually assaulting you because you screamed very hard?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I cried.   When Awa was trying to have sexual relations with me, I screamed and cried.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: You can go on with your story.