Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-15

CHAIRPERSON: You see I asked that question particularly and I gave one of the options is that you may not have knowledge of that because there was an allegation that him and his two sons, I am not too sure if the names of the two sons were mentioned at the time had attacked a group of youth people - oh him and his four sons threw stones at a group of youths who were having a meeting on the mountain and chanting or singing songs involving politics and that was never denied. If you don't know whether that occurred or not then please tell us.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know that.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Is it true that his family, or one of his family members was in fact the headman of the village?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know of that.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know Adam Mahvunga?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes that one I know.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he the headman of the village?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he connected to your husband?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So that's what I am asking you, was a member of the family of your husband the headman of the area or the district if you can call it that, is it true?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes it's true.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Now do you know whether the headmen and the traditional healers and those types of people were actually involved in governmental authority?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know, okay.  Do you know whether people who were in governmental authority sought assistance of witchcraft to sustain their power?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know.  Are you aware that witchcraft was in fact practised in the area?  Not necessarily for political reasons but just in general.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Could you repeat your question.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether witchcraft was practised in the area at that time?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know or was it not practised?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I didn't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  So you don't know who, if it was practised you wouldn't know who would have practised it because you don't know whether it was practised, correct?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well I can say I don't know because I never heard anything about these kind of things.

CHAIRPERSON: Now let us get back to the 28th of February.  Was your house attacked on the 28th of February - that's not the day your husband died.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Your house was not attacked.  On the 6th of April ...(intervention)

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: The house was attacked on the 28th.

CHAIRPERSON: Of February?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now I don't want to go into the details of who did it and what time they did it.  That attack were you informed as to why that attack took place?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I wasn't told.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not try to find out?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes I wanted to find out but I didn't know how I will know and where to get the information.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not ask your husband if he knew perhaps, or your children?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I tried to do that.  We asked ourselves because when it was happening there was nobody at home except Boshoff and Eric.  When I came back in the afternoon and when the deceased came back he realised that there was this damage or attack and the boys were trying to put down the fire.  I asked myself as to what was happening at my place, at my home.

CHAIRPERSON: And you couldn't fathom that out?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No we could not fathom that out.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask your husband then or your children was there any possible reason why this could have occurred?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well we asked ourselves as to how, what is going to happen, what was going to happen, what was the reason for the attack but we could not get an answer because it was myself and my sons, or the children of the deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: Now at some stage we were informed that your husband wrote a letter to the headman which was intended to be read out to the community, do you recall that?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't remember that, I don't know that.

CHAIRPERSON: So you don't know anything about a letter that was handed to the headman?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know anything about it.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Do you know or did you go to the headman to seek assistance after this initial attack on the 28th of February?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well I didn't go anywhere, I was just at home.

CHAIRPERSON: Did your husband go to ask assistance from the headman for protection or whatever, or to settle the problems?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: He didn't go anywhere.  Well I think - well I don't remember exactly whether when that had happened as to how the police arrived, but I know the police got involved.  I don't know how they arrived but it so happened.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they say when they got to you?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well they had already taken the statements and they were discussing the issue with the ...(indistinct) as to whether the boys were identified and it was said nobody identified the boy.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  Now during that time shortly or a couple of weeks before your husband eventually died did the police come there to your husband to say he must leave the area or don't you know?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: On the day he died did the police come there?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: To tell him he must go.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Until the day he died were you aware that the people were wanting him to leave the area with or without his family?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Could you repeat the question please.

CHAIRPERSON: Up to the day on this attack where he died were you aware that certain people of the area wanted him to leave the area with or without his family?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I don't know because nobody came to bring that kind of information to tell us to leave.

CHAIRPERSON: At the time that there was this attack before he died was the possibility of him leaving the area never raised?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: There was just this attack?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes it was just - that's when I came back on the 28th there was this attack.

CHAIRPERSON: No I am talking about the 6th when he died.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes, now.

CHAIRPERSON: There was no indication that they wanted him to leave?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: When this attack started did they say why they are throwing stones at him?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Nobody explained as to why they were throwing stones.

CHAIRPERSON: There was no shouting that he must go?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Nobody said a word, they just acted because that was why they were there.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  How long were they there?  How long were there visitors or strangers at your house in or just outside your fence?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well it took a long time, a long time.

CHAIRPERSON: I see.  Did these people come, maybe a smaller group at about 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock that day?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Since the beginning of the day till late afternoon nobody came.  They came in the afternoon to do the job.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.  Now were you at home when they came there?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes I was at home.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your husband there?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes he was at home.

CHAIRPERSON: Did anybody come inside the house to talk to you or him?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No, no.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they just start to throw stones from outside?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes that's true.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that what drew your attention to the people outside the house?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go outside?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I could not go out.  I just started looking for the keys and locked the doors and we stood in the passage with the children.

CHAIRPERSON: What did your husband say?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: He was out.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Out of the house, within the yard.