Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-18

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, we are about to call our last witness.  I see we've got one cameraman, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: He's focusing on you, Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: He's not, he's focusing on Mr Wasserman which is alright - Van der Westhuizen I'm sorry.
	Mr Chairman, just before we call Mr van der Westhuizen to give evidence, there is a matter which we feel constrained to make a remark about.  You will recall Mr Chairman that yesterday we were at great pains to argue before you in the public interest that you not make an order that the identity of informers be disclosed and Mr Chairman, of course, you did not make such an order, in fact your decision in that regard has been postponed pending the outcome of an interim agreement which was reached for practical purposes in order to attempt to solve the problem which would prevent you from having to make such an order.  
	This morning, Mr Chairman, we could not help noticing on television that the SABC sent into South Africa new supports which all but stated that the Committee had made such an order but which left no doubt in the minds of anyone listening and seeing that programme that there is now an order that the identity of informers be disclosed.  
	Mr Chairman, we attempted to make it quite clear yesterday that no police force in the world can work and do their work properly, solve crime, without the assistance of informers and how anxious informers are concerning their own safety.  It seems to us, Mr Chairman, apart from the fact that what the SABC did this morning appears to be precisely what the Act has in mind in Section 39(a) in anticipating an order but also, Mr Chairman, it has really made the whole proceeding of yesterday ludicrous because what we try to prevent has now been expounded by the SABC over the country.  
	We believe, Mr Chairman, that in fairness to the public, the SABC ought to make quite sure that the public is informed that they have made a mistake and that no such order was issued by this Committee.  We just wanted to place that on record, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I did not watch television this morning and I have not seen that report.  The press that I have read seem to have reported the matter with some accuracy and the purpose, as I understand it of the agreement, it was an agreement yesterday, was to enable these people to be notified that they might be involved and if they desire to take any steps they could do so.  It is only after that has been done that the question will arise for decision.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  We call Mr van der Westhuizen.

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Mr van der Westhuizen, were you born on the 10th June 1961 in Pietermartizburg and did you complete your school career at Greytown in Natal?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Did you apply for amnesty in this current session with regard to the death of Mr Pumeso Nxiweni?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I refer you to volume 2, page 72 to 84. 	You are familiar with the content of the written application which you have completed?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And which you have also signed?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Do you confirm the content thereof?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: In your amnesty application in the case of Mr Nxiweni, you have referred to the amnesty applications of Mr Steyn, Botha, is that correct?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: You have listened to the evidence of Mr Steyn and Botha with regard to the political background as well as the political objective which was to be achieved with the elimination - I beg your pardon - Mr Steyn's general political background and in the case of Mr Botha, the political motivation for the elimination of Mr Nxiweni?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Are you in agreement with that?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Please tell the Committee very briefly something about your family background, please Mr van der Westhuizen?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I was born into an Afrikaans family, conservative family.  My father served in the police forces as well as one of my uncles.  Most of my family's friends were policemen.

MR VISSER: Did your parents support any political party?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: They supported the National Party.

MR VISSER: And the policy of apartheid and so forth?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And while you were growing up, had there already been a build up of the political struggle?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And what was the viewpoint of your parents and your parents' friends with regard to the onslaught?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: They opposed it.

MR VISSER: Did you also regard it as the policy of the Government that the onslaught should be combated at all costs?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: You completed your schooling at Greytown?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And in 1979 you joined the South African Police?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes, directly after my schooling.

MR VISSER: After your training was completed, you then joined the counter-insurgency unit?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: How did it happen that you arrived there?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: I joined voluntarily.

MR VISSER: And after you had completed that, did you complete any service as a member of the counter-insurgency unit?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Where?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: In Craddock and the Grahamstown area of the Eastern Cape.

MR VISSER: And during this time period we are discussing, after 1980 was there already in that area an increase of unrest and violence?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And did you acquaint yourself with that personally, Mr van der Westhuizen?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: Did you later apply for a transfer to the reactionary forces?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And you then specialised in training?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And after that training or that training itself was aimed at combating and fighting, that which was regarded as the total onslaught of the ANC/SACP Alliance as well as other freedom movements against the Government of the country?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: The reactionary force was applied by the Security Branch as well as the murder and robbery division for investigations and actions?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Yes that is correct.

MR VISSER: And what would that have involved, for example?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: For example if the Security Branch wanted to search houses then the reactionary force was used to infiltrate the house.  They were to undertake the first penetration of the house and secure the area so that the investigational search could be undertaken.

MR VISSER: How would be involved, how would you be involved in these searches, what would the dangers be?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Well there would be the danger of armed people within the house.

MR VISSER: Yes and this occurred between 1982 and 1985 and later you joined the Security Branch?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And as a member of the Security Branch you also underwent demolitions training?

CASPER ADRIAAN VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: That is correct.