Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1999-02-02

ALAN TYANI: No when the door was closed I couldn't see him but when the door opened a light reflection came through the window then I could see him again.

MR MNQANDI: Even though you were behind Mr Gumengu you were able to see the deceased?

ALAN TYANI: First of all when Gumengu is shorter than me and I said he was at a distance.

MR MNQANDI: I just want to know even though you were behind Mr Gumengu you were able to see the deceased, that's what I want to know?

ALAN TYANI: Yes I could see him properly.

MR MNQANDI: What direction did Mr Gumengu take after shouting when he took cover?

ALAN TYANI: If my memory serves me correct I shifted to his right-hand side and then he moved to the left hand side but I was not looking at Gumengu now I was actually looking at the danger.

MR MNQANDI: Can you give us an estimate of how big the passage was in which you were?

JUDGE MILLER: Sorry, do you mean how wide or how long?

MR MNQANDI: How wide yes.

ALAN TYANI: With the length I don't think I can be able to measure it properly but I can say it was from the fabric at the corner there to where I am right now but if the owner if the house can say it was actually shorter than what I'm estimating then I cannot dispute that but this corridor was not that big but I was just estimating.

MR MNQANDI: Are you talking about the width or the length?  I want to know about the width.

ALAN TYANI: I cannot say about the width but it was not that big but it was not that big, I cannot say for certain how wide was it.

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, estimate it, you've just estimated the length now from that fabric to somewhere else.  Just estimate the width, that's the question.

ALAN TYANI: As it was dark in the house I'd be doing some guesswork.  I can say it was from a distance of the mike in front of Mr Sibanyoni to where I am but I cannot be certain about that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we've estimated that to be about two paces.  Yes Mr Mnqandi?

MR MNQANDI: Two paces.

JUDGE MILLER: Sorry and the length estimated for what it's worth is about 8 paces.

MR MNQANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	And you say when Mr Gumengu shouted "handgrenade" you moved towards the door and he moved towards the direction in which you had been standing?

ALAN TYANI: I was not next to the door, it was Gumengu who was next to the two doors but then he shouted "handgrenade" and then I moved towards his right-hand side and looking straight at the person who was alleged to be having a handgrenade, my enemy.

MR MNQANDI: What I want to know is the direction which Mr Gumengu took when he was taking cover?

ALAN TYANI: If my memory serves me correctly I think he moved towards the left and then I shifted towards his right although I did not walk past him.  I was facing the deceased and I wanted to be sure about what he was saying, the handgrenade and I was looking at the deceased's hands.

MR MNQANDI: Mr Gumengu, when he was testifying, told us that you had passed him and you were on the other side of the door when the door was opened?

ALAN TYANI: As far as I'm concerned I did not pass or walk past him because if I did that I wouldn't be able to see the deceased.  Perhaps he took it as if I had passed him but I think even himself at the time he was already shocked because he could smell the danger.

MR MNQANDI: When you saw the deceased was the pin of the handgrenade on or off?

ALAN TYANI: I did not take note of that.  When he fell I just went out of the house, I was also shocked because I could say that that was our last day on earth and I did not check the pin but I know that the handgrenade would only explode when the pin is removed, it will never explode when the pin is still on.

MR MNQANDI: I wanted to know, at the time that he opened the door and was holding the handgrenade, was the pin on or off at the time not after you had shot him?

ALAN TYANI: I saw the handgrenade and he was holding it and he was holding it and as far as I'm concerned if you are handling it with the handle I couldn't see the pin hanging out there but if I had seen the pin hanging loose I was not going to shoot.

MR MNQANDI: Why did you not take cover when Mr Gumengu warned about the grenade?

ALAN TYANI: There was no cover at the corridor but you would try and cover yourself but that would also depend.  If there are stones or a hole then that you can call a cover, safe cover.  You can take cover but some of the shrapnel or debris can injure you but nothing will ever save you from the exploding grenade in that kind of a situation not unless you are next to a wall.

MR MNQANDI: Mr Gumengu has testified that when he saw the deceased holding the handgrenade he shouted and then he took cover.  My question is why didn't you take cover at that time?

ALAN TYANI: That depends on how you perceive things or when you are facing death, how is your state of mind but to me it was apparent that nothing will ever save me from his handgrenade if I was there on that corridor but I could have tried perhaps to reduce danger but fortunately he did not fail on the passage.

MR MNQANDI: According to you what prevented the deceased from throwing the handgrenade?

ALAN TYANI: In my perception and our condition I can say the reflection of light that came through the window perturbed him and he couldn't see exactly where we were positioned even though he could see Gumengu but I think he was still looking for the right time to throw the grenade because he was disturbed by the light that came through the window.

JUDGE MILLER: But he had been in the light the whole time because he was in the room where the light was, I mean it wasn't like the light was suddenly coming to him as it was to you?

ALAN TYANI: Yes he was in the light and even when he had closed the door but I think that when the door opened as you were in the passage it was a bit dark in the passage.

MR MNQANDI: But surely he did not have to aim when he was throwing a handgrenade, he knew that you were in a very narrow passage so he could have got you in the passage?

ALAN TYANI: But I think that he wanted to be sure where we were, I am just guessing because he never mentioned that because he wasn't sure, perhaps he couldn't be sure whether we were in the passage or not.

MR MNQANDI: The fact that you were the person who was behind the door and Mr Gumengu was just in front of the door, does it not become strange that you were the person who was able to shoot the deceased whilst you were the person who was behind Gumengu?

ALAN TYANI: Situations changes from time to time because I had one enemy that I could see that he was holding something dangerous.  I think that since Gumengu had opened the handcuffs maybe the firearm was not in his hands therefore the situation had to change.  I'm the one who had to protect his life and mine.

MR MNQANDI: My instructions are that if you were not directly in front of the opposite door there was no way that you could be able to see someone who was inside that room.

ALAN TYANI: He was visible, anyone could have seen him because if you had looked through the door you could have seen him, I am sure about that because that doesn't mean that there is a curve on the passage, just straightforward and the deceased was the point of focus.

MR MNQANDI: When the deceased - when you saw the deceased holding the grenade how far was he from the door he had opened?

ALAN TYANI: I think he was not far from the door and he could be partly visible but he did not have to go out the room.

MR MNQANDI: Was it necessary for him to throw the grenade to open the door wide or he could have just opened it a little bit and threw the grenade outside?