Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, that is correct.  We were concerned regarding the situation when the vehicles had stopped before.  I think I myself asked Kallie Meiring and Andre Visser to take one of the accused and take them to the place where they had stopped, and determine what had been dropped of or whether they had simply climbed out.
	When they came back, they reported negatively.  They spoke about a bag with melted ice, but the problem was that it was open plains and that it was dark and one would not have been able to see whether or not someone had been dropped off, therefore we could not determine what had happened there.

MS VAN DER WALT: You have testified that you regarded this as the appropriate target, what did you do then?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: After that, and I want to state it clearly that Kallie Meiring, Gert Diedericks and another person took the view that if anybody attempted to run away, they should apprehend them.
	They stood behind the chevron board in order to determine whether or not there were other vehicles approaching.  Those men who I could reach were told that these were ANC people, Jaco Badenhorst was still busy on the one side, searching a vehicle.
	The others entered into the group and I am sure that the message was conveyed to them, we formed a line.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you say when you were in the small group?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: It is not what they said, it is what I alone said.  I said that these are ANC people, this is our target group.  These are the people who we are going to shoot.

MS VAN DER WALT: Very well, proceed.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: We formed a line, whereupon I told my second in command to remember that he was the one who had to fire the first shot.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who was that?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Deon Martin.  He had a pump action shotgun with which he fired the first shot.

MS VAN DER WALT: How would the other persons have known when the first shot was fired, that they were also supposed to fire?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: When we stood in the group I told them clearly, when the first shot is fired, you must commence shooting.

MS VAN DER WALT: You may proceed.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: We all shot, I believed that everyone who was supposed to shoot, did.  It was a very short span of cross-fire, approximately 10 to 15 seconds in duration.
	After the shooting Kallie Meiring shouted that a vehicle or vehicles were approaching, upon which they climbed into the Sentra and sped away.  Before they could get away, I told them to meet as at the Town Hall.
	While they were driving away Gert Diedericks who was behind one of the vehicles, came along and I told him to put the flash light over the victims, they all appeared to be dead.  I did not try to determine this by feeling their pulse, they all lay very still.
	I told them to pack up all the shells, all the shells were removed from the scene.  If you would like to know the shells were removed in order to ensure that we would not be identified until we had caused enough chaos in the Randfontein area.
	After we had removed the shells and while we were removing the shells, I gave the instruction to Deon Martin to cut off one of the dead black men's ears.  It was a specific order from General Oelofse.  He wanted an ear to show to the other areas that work had in fact been done.
	I did not ignore his orders, they were not funny.  It had been done several times on the border.  Deon Martin carried out the order and handed over the ear to me, which he had placed in a plastic bag.
	We drove and first stopped at Deon Martin's home where we dropped off Gert Diedericks because he had to fetch his vehicle and his children.  He was excused from the small group meeting which we would have held after that.  We went to the Town Hall and couldn't find the men who had been with us.
	After that we went to Mr Badenhorst's home and there we got the group together.  I was in a very uncomfortable mood.  I felt that they had left us there alone without sufficient lighting or manpower.  I asked whether any of them had shot or had not shot.  Everyone answered in the affirmative.
	I asked whether or not they were aware that everyone had been killed, and they answered in the affirmative.  I sent someone to the Mercedes to go and fetch the ear.  I showed them the ear, upon which I also told them that this ear would be handed over to General Oelofse the following day, in order to prove to him that we had done work that night, and that we had completely carried out his orders.

MS VAN DER WALT: You picked up the shells on the scene, what happened to the vehicles?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Deon Martin and I set the vehicles alight in order to ensure that all forms of evidence would be destroyed, and that no fingers could be pointed at us.

MS VAN DER WALT: You have testified regarding the meeting there.  Do you know anything about audio cassettes?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Yes, the cassettes were inside one of the vehicles.  It was removed and shown to me along with car keys.  I would say tool keys.  I told the men to take them.  The tool keys had to be handed over to Gert Diedericks, who was our Mechanics Officer.  He would take that and then Pieter Matthews would ensure that someone with a decent system would listen to all the cassettes in order to determine whether or not there were any propaganda on the cassettes.
	We discovered that the first part of the cassettes had pop music and then a couple of other items, and after that, propaganda would be on the cassettes, so therefore if you found cassettes and you only listen to the beginning and the end, you would only hear music.  That is why I asked that the cassettes be taken and listened to.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you do on the following day?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: At 6.30 I was at General Oelofse's smallholding, which also served as the Headquarters.  I placed the ear in a blue cardboard box, knocked on his door, no one answered.
	I stood back and I saw him approaching from his cement dam.  I saluted him or gave him the "boere groet" and then related to him what had happened the previous evening.  I then handed over the ear to him.  He was very impressed and praised me quite much.
	I could clearly see that he was very impressed with this.  I suggested that we would visit him later that day for further instructions.  He said that from now on things would start happening.  I went back to work.
	There I had a video machine and a television in my office because of the nature of my work.  I switched on the television and on the morning news I saw that not all of the people who had been shot at (indistinct), had passed away but only four had passed away.
	Three had passed away and one was so seriously injured, that he passed away later in hospital.   Others had been injured.  I phoned Deon Martin from my office.  Later on that afternoon, I don't recall exactly what time, we went back to General Oelofse.  Upon his suggestion he was uncomfortable with the fact that we had left evidence behind.
	He told us to shave our hair and to cut off our moustaches.  At that point I wore a moustache and a goaty beard.  We cut our hair at that very instant.  His wife, Stephanie, cut our hair.  He also advised us to lay very low, and not gather again as the same group that had been involved.
	I found this quite strange because we were involved in a revolution.  I reported back to the men.  Deon communicated it to the soldiers that he could contact, that we should lay low at first.  We understood that there were problems with the revolution but that it would take place the following day because this entire revolution would coincide with the day of the covenant on the 16th of December of that year, 1993.

MS VAN DER WALT: You have testified that at the Order Group meeting every individual area was given instructions?