Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — UNKNOWN

CAPT BOKABA: This office called GOS in Mamelodi station, I would explain it in this way. I would say it was an office which was used by the South African Defence Force and together with the South African uniformed police.  In that office called GOS, there were radios, which they were able to contact their patrols, that means vehicles outside.  They were using that as an office by the South African Defence Force and the uniform police. That is the explanation I would give this time.

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes. Now Capt Bokaba, in respect of information obtained by the security branch, how did you deal with that information with reference to GOS?  Can you elaborate a little bit on that?  Did you receive information as part of the security branch? Did you give information to people, how did that relate to GOS?

CAPT BOKABA: I don't understand your question clearly.  May you repeat that question, Sir?

CAPT BOKABA: Yes. Captain, let me ask you this.  Was one of the functions of the security police to obtain information in Mamelodi and the surrounding areas?

CAPT BOKABA: That was not our work to gather information from GOS office.

MR DU PLESSIS: No.  No, the question was not translated to you properly. I wonder, Captain, if I shouldn't ask you in Afrikaans.  Well, that question wasn't ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Couldn't we just ask him what his duties were?  You have got him having transferred to the security branch, Northern Transvaal on the 1st of May 1986. But he has told us nothing about what he did.

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes. Captain, can you explain to us what your duties were at the security branch?

CAPT BOKABA: My work was to gather information. I was handling informers, in short that was my work. I used to do that work on a daily basis to handle the informers.

MR DU PLESSIS: And what did you do with the information?

CAPT BOKABA: After I have gathered the information, from our informers, every morning in our office, which was in Compol Building, we used to have a conference, then we will take that information and hand it over to Col Loots.  And during the day we would go and see our sources and then in the afternoon we would meet again.  Then we would hand that information to Col Loots.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Captain, did you yourself ever take information to GOS?

CAPT BOKABA: I had never gathered information from GOS.

MR DU PLESSIS: No, Captain, the question is, did you yourself ever give information to the people who worked at the office at GOS?

CAPT BOKABA: Yes, that is true.

MR DU PLESSIS: And who did you give the information to at the office at GOS during the period 1986, '87, 1988?

CAPT BOKABA: I would give that information to Capt Boshoff of the South African Defence Force.

MR DU PLESSIS: And when you gave the information how did it take place, was there a formal meeting, did you speak to him personally or how did that happen?

CAPT BOKABA: We would hand over that information in GOS, I would explain this way, what kind of mission would be handed over.  On the day when we meet our sources.  There is a kind of information which would find it an emergency information, which they would say at this time there will be a protest march.  That information, that is not information which I will hold it to myself. We would rush to GOS and explain to them that at this time there will be a protest march, make sure that you contact your police stations to monitor that specific protest march.

MR DU PLESSIS: And when you gave the information, did you speak to Capt Boshoff personally?

CAPT BOKABA: Yes, I would speak directly to Capt Boshoff.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did you ever have an office at the Mamelodi Police Station or at the GOS part of the police station?

CAPT BOKABA: We didn't have an office at GOS.

MR DU PLESSIS: Captain, did you ever see Mr Ngo at the GOS station, and the Mamelodi Police Station, did you ever see him there?

CAPT BOKABA: I never saw him at GOS.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Captain, who worked with you at Mamelodi?

CAPT BOKABA: All those who were working with me in Mamelodi, that would be Capt Hechter, Warrant-Officer Van Wyk, Warrant-Officer Hlongwane, then later we were joined by Dennis Selasi, Joshua Dennis Selasi, whom he was called Slang.

MR DU PLESSIS: And what vehicle did you use when you were working in Mamelodi?

CAPT BOKABA: When I started at security branch on the 1st of May 1986, there was a yellow Colt Galant which was used by Warrant-Officer Hlongwane.  That is the car that I used.

MR DU PLESSIS: It is a Colt Galant. Now Capt Bokaba, and while you were working, let's just talk of the period from 1986 to 1990, where were you staying, where were you sleeping?

CAPT BOKABA: I was staying in Mamelodi barracks.

MR DU PLESSIS: And can you just give us an indication who slept at the barracks? Was it one unit or how did it work?

CAPT BOKABA: Mamelodi barracks was a place where different unit members were staying there, I will mention a few. Vehicle theft members, murder and robbery squad members, liquor squad members, Unit 19 squad members, detectives of various police stations, security branch. I was the only one member who was staying in that barracks. That is to say the members of the different units were staying in those barracks, but I was the only security police who was staying in that barracks.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Captain, can you remember when you met Mr Ngo, and where it was?

CAPT BOKABA: As he was a member of the Unit 19, he was always, also staying at that barracks.

MR DU PLESSIS: Did you have contact with him frequently, can you elaborate to us?

CAPT BOKABA: No.

MR DU PLESSIS: And Captain, can you perhaps remember when you saw Mr Ngo at the barracks, how was he clothed?  Did he have normal clothes on or did he have a uniform on, can you remember?

CAPT BOKABA: I remember the first time we met he was wearing plainclothes, but always they were wearing uniform.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Captain, when you applied to become a member of the security force, can you just shortly explain to the Committee the procedure that was followed - the security branch, the procedure that was followed when you applied to become a member of the security branch?

CAPT BOKABA: Shortly I would explain it this way, the way I was recruited. While I was working at the Mamelodi uniform branch, Warrant-Office Hlongwane told me that he wants to work with me at the security branch. He informed me that he would make an interview with the then Capt Loots, Capt Van Wyk and he took me to Capt Loots.  From there I underwent an interview. Then Col Loots told me to go and submit my application transfer to my immediate commander, who was Col Lekangane and then I did that application.  Then I give it to Col Lekangane. Then he took it through the right channels.  Then my application was approved, I think it took about three months before it was approved. Then from there I was transferred to security branch and then when I arrived at the security branch, there are forms which you had to fill in, which they would say they were clearance forms, and they were top secret forms.  That is the procedure you follow.

MR DU PLESSIS: Now Captain, did you have an office at the COMPOL Building?

CAPT BOKABA: Yes, I did. I was sharing an office with Warrant-Officer Hlongwane.

MR DU PLESSIS: Right. Now Captain, you have read the amnesty application of Mr Ngo, and you have heard his evidence.  Can you tell the Committee how you remember the incident where Mr Ngo contacted you and the interview with Col Loots. Can you just explain to us what happened there?

CAPT BOKABA: Do you mean the first time, initially when he came to me or during the interview?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes, explain to us - well, let me ask you this.  Did Mr Ngo ever contact you about the security branch?

CAPT BOKABA: That is true.

MR DU PLESSIS: And where did that happen and what was said?