Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I do not know the other one, I know only one.

UNKNOWN: Who was that?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: His name is (Indistinct) Motsi(?), he was being chased by Palo.

UNKNOWN: Yes?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Palo was running after him, hitting him.   We then, I then grabbed him and then I said Palang must take him to the shack, and then he took him right away.

UNKNOWN: Who is Palang?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Palang Kosa of Moleleki Extension 2, he was a member of the SDU.   He is still around in Moleleki.

UNKNOWN: Yes?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: When Palang took him to the shack, we were left behind and the commander, Dondolo Mchebe, arrived.

CHAIRPERSON: How many persons were taken to the shack?   I thought two boys came to where you were?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I was close to the community, to the members of the community, just on the road, they came from a certain direction, I think he called them up in the veld towards block F direction.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand that, but were these two boys then taken to the shack, both of them?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, he took both of them to a shack.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Comrade Dondolo Mchebe arrived and he asked them their names.   I was outside.   (Indistinct) revealed that Mavuso went to his home to wake him up, in other words he was at home sleeping, he was telling all this to Comrade Mchebe Dondolo.   Comrade Shongwe has already alluded to the fact that Mavuso also revealed.

UNKNOWN: Yes.

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: We were then told to fetch Mtabang, myself, Shongwe and Comrade Themba.

UNKNOWN: Did you fetch them?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes sir.

UNKNOWN: Themba you're referring to, would that be Themba Christopher Mtshali?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: What did you do with him when you found him, Mtabang?   After you found Mtabang, what did you do with him?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: No sir, I said the comrades that I caught up with, I don't know who's (Indistinct), but he was among the people who...(tape ends)
	...Mtabang was already captured, he actually revealed the name of this other person.

UNKNOWN: Mavuso?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, he identified Mavuso.

UNKNOWN: Okay.

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Myself, Shongwe, we went to fetch Mavuso from home with Themba.

UNKNOWN: Did you find Mavuso?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, we found him.

UNKNOWN: What did you do with him?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: We found his mother at home, his mother, his father and his sister.   We requested permission to go, to leave with Mavuso, we said the commander, Mchebe Dondolo, wanted to see him.

UNKNOWN: Yes?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I am the person who was holding him and the others were coming behind, we took him to that shack.

UNKNOWN: Yes?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: We put him inside the shack and then I came down to wait there.   That will be all.

UNKNOWN: Did you go to the place where they were killed?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, I did go to the place where they were killed, I was there.

UNKNOWN: Tell us about your involvement in that?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Before we go to the veld, Lepele Shia, one of our comrades, he came with a rope and then he gave it to us, so that we tied them up.   We did just that.

UNKNOWN: Yes?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: After tying them up, I then went outside to sit.   Then Comrade Shia was also outside leaning against the pole.   We were then told that a commander issued out an order that they be killed.

UNKNOWN: Who told you that?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I heard from Lepele Shia, he did not go down with us, he was left behind, because I also left after quite some time of their departure, it might have been a distance from here to that door.

UNKNOWN: Did Shia tell you where the order came from?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: He told me that the commander issued out an order.

UNKNOWN: Oh.  Did he tell you who that commander was?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, he told me, Mchebe Dondolo.

UNKNOWN: Did you then escort the people to the open field?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Sir, I already told you that I was not close to them, I was far behind them and they were walking ahead of me.

UNKNOWN: So you followed?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, I followed.   I followed them.

UNKNOWN: Yes, continue, you followed them, then what happened?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I saw Comrade Mchebe shooting, and thereafter AK47 rifles were also used.

UNKNOWN: Were you armed?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: With what?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I had a spear.   Because I usually had a knobkierie, I don't remember where did I get hold of this spear.

UNKNOWN: Did you kill anybody?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, chair, after they were shot with guns, Comrade Mchebe said, "Lefu, Mavuso is not dead, stab him", and then I executed that order, I just stabbed him once.

UNKNOWN: Did he die?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: He was already shot when I stabbed him, I stabbed him just once and then I pulled out the spear and then I left.   I don't know whether it was my stabbing or the bullets that he had already received that killed him.

UNKNOWN: Is there any other person that you attached at the scene?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: No sir, nobody else, because I was so scared, I stabbed quickly because I was so afraid, and then I immediately left.

UNKNOWN: These people who you killed, do you know them?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I've already said that I did not even know Motsi, I knew them thereafter, and then I happened to know Mavuso, but the rest I did not know, and I only knew, I knew Vips, who was taken and killed in Khumalo.

UNKNOWN: Were you told to which organisation those people belonged?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, I was told.   When I arrived in 1992, in September, when I arrived in Moleleki, the SDU was working with the SDU, they were together.

UNKNOWN: No, we know that history, but what I'm asking is, the victims, did you know if they were members of the ANC Youth League?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes, I knew, but not all of them, some of them were members of the ANC.

UNKNOWN: Sorry, can you come again, some of them were members of what?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: ANC Youth League, and some of them were members of the PAC, they were mixing.

UNKNOWN: Do you know why they were killed?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Why?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: It's because of the deceased No 1's death, I think it's (indistinct) Bulelwa, and Mr Comrade Blanko.

UNKNOWN: To your knowledge, is there any other reason why they were killed?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Members of the ANC Youth League you are referring to, sir, which members are you referring to now?

UNKNOWN: The whole (indistinct).

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes sir.

UNKNOWN: Why?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: There were side talks from them when they were reprimanded about their lootings in the spaza shops.

UNKNOWN: So were they also killed for their criminal involvements, is that what you're saying?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: That is not a big reason, they took that step because they were reprimanded, members of the Self Defence Unit reprimanded them, warned them, now what they did in turn was to kill Mr Blanko and Bulelwa, because they were being reprimanded of the activities in the township.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but I think what you are being asked is whether, are you aware of any other reason why they were killed, apart from the fact that they killed Bulelwa and Blanko?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: I only know of that reason, sir, I don't have any other.

UNKNOWN: All right, listen, was their killing connected with the SDU protecting the community?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: Yes sir.

UNKNOWN: Was it connected?

LEFU PATRICK MOKOENA: The SDU protected the community and the situation was violent during that time, IFP and other organisations were attacking.   At times the Stability was attacking, coming to take people by force from the township, because when they entered the township they entered with gun shooting.