Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-22

MR PRIOR: Mr Mbandazayo, are you referring to the affidavit at page 25 of the papers?

MR MBANDAZAYO: My, Chairman, it think it's ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: Page 8, page 8, sorry.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, it's the affidavit at page 8 which is translated from page 15 which is typed from page 16, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: I'm referring to that affidavit.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, as I indicated, as I go along there will be certain corrections in the affidavit and certain additions.  Mr Chairman, it's not numbered, I will have difficulties, but I'll try explain which paragraph, but for the purposes of this hearing, Mr Chairman, I'd like us to use the typed one which is more clearer, which is from page 16.  Mr Chairman I will start with the last paragraph of page 16 which the first one is self-explanatory.  For Mr Dolo, I'll read you the last paragraph of this affidavit and I would like you to explain to the Committee in details as regard this paragraph
"On a certain date in December 1991 we held a meeting.  It was me, Lethlapha Mphahlele and another Comrade, met with intention of getting instruction from the Commander of Operation.  It was then decided that we were to attack the Lady Grey Police Station as our main target."
Now, what I want you to tell the Committee, is the place where you met with Mphahlele and the details of the discussion regarding the attack at Lady Grey.  Can you take the Committee through the steps in your meeting.  What transpired in the meeting?  Explain it in detail.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was in December 1991.  We were in the house.  It was myself Mphahlele and Vuyo Wilson.  When Mphahlele came he told us that one day we will have to attach the Police Station in Lady Grey.  He told us that he will come to us on that particular day.  He will tell us all the details about when to leave.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Could you tell the Committee please where you met on the day of this meeting?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We were at Jozanna's Neck.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Whose place was it, that you were, whose, whom or whose house was it that you were occupying at Jozanna's Neck?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was at Mbele-Mbele's place. My African Mbele-Mbele's place.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.  Mr Chairman I'll proceed to page 17,

MR PRIOR: Mr Mbandazayo it might be helpful, just if we follow the numbering that's already there, could we just number each paragraph after that.  So the last one on that page 16 is 13 and then we go over the page, that's a continuation of the first one.  The next one will be 14 and onwards.

MR MBANDAZAYO: 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20.

MR PRIOR: Correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: It's easier just to refer to the numbering.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I'll proceed to paragraph 14.  Now, in paragraph 14 it says that on the second day of January, Mr Chairman, I,
"....on the 2nd of January 1992 Lady Grey Police Station was already targeted.  We went to Transkei and hijacked a bakkie and drove to Lady Grey.  Comrade Lethlapha was the driver, and myself as well as Vuyo was sitting at the back."
Mr Chairman, I think the correct date will be the 3rd of January.  That's the day of the incident.  Not the 2nd.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, perhaps he ought to correct his affidavit rather than you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I'll do that.  Mr Dolo can you take the Committee through what happened then on the day of the incident.  You have already told the Committee that Mr Lethlapha Mphahlele came to you and told you that you are going to attack Lady Grey's Police Station and you'll receive from him, you will hear from him.  Now, can you tell the Committee what happened now on the day of the incident?  Take us through the preparation.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: On the 3rd of January we were in Mbele-Mbele's home.  Comrade Mphahlele told us that on that particular day we'll go to Lady Grey to attack the Police Station.  On that same day Comrade Mphahlele showed us some guns.  The R5, two pistols and a grenade.  He told us that those were the arms that we were going to use.  On that same day we left the house, we took the arms.  I had an R5 rifle.  We boarded a taxi.  We left for Sterkspruit.  When we arrived there at Sterkspruit we boarded another taxi that was going to Herschel.  When we arrived there we left Comrade Mphahlele there in Herschel.  Myself and Vuyosile we left.  We were actually looking for a car.  A bakkie, a van, the van that we would use when we were going to the Police Station.  When we were on the way there was a van, a bakkie.  We stopped this van.  The owner refused to stop.  I heard a sound.  The van passed.  We went on.  We reached a certain point.  We waited there.  We waited.  Another van came, a bakkie.  We tried, we stopped this vehicle, we stopped this van.  It also passed.  There was a sound.  We shot, it stopped.  When it stopped we ran.  We ran towards the van.  There were two people inside.  There was a lady and gentleman.  They asked us not to kill them.  We told them that we were not going to kill them.  We were just, we wanted them to borrow us their car.  We would use it and we would bring it back again.  We asked for the keys.  The keys were inside the car.  I went straight to the driver's seat and Vuyo came in also.  I drove the car.  We went on to collect Happy in Herschel where we had left him earlier. Comrade Happy became the driver. We went, we take the direction Lady Grey.  On our way there, my self and Vuyo.  We alighted the vehicle from the front seat, we boarded at the back of the, of the van.  We went strait to the Lady Grey Police Station.  When we arrived there the Lady Grey Police Station we went past, we looked at this Police Station. There was someone outside.  When we came back again we find that that person was still there.  Myself, I shot, when I shot, when I was still busy shooting, Vuyo threw the handgrenade.  We went on.  We went back to Sterkspruit.  When we arrived at Sterkspruit, we parked the car on the main road, in front of the main road.  We went on.  We went to a certain point. Comrade Happy fetched, fetched some transport. He came with this transport.  He took us back to Comrade Mbele-Mbele's place where we spent the night.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Tell the Committee, what type of, of grenade that you used.  You have already told the Committee that you were having an R5 rifle, what type of weapon, what type of pistol was Happy, if I'm not mistaken you mentioned that they were having pistol, what type of pistols where they, Happy and Vuyo were having?  The grenade and the pistol.  Can you still remember, can you tell us?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was a stick grenade.  The pistols were 9mm and the revolver.  What I'm not sure about was Happy's, I'm not sure which one was carrying one of those, I'm not sure between Happy and the, and Vuyo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee, do you know what happened to the first van that you tried to stop?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The first van that we tried to stop, what happened there, I heard a gunshot.  This car passed, went on.  I don't know what happened.  The car passed, I don't what happened.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Mbandazayo.  Can I ask the applicant, are you able to say who was shooting?  You say you heard a shot, where was it coming from, was it coming from you or who was it from?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was Vuyo who was shooting.

MR PRIOR: Just one second, I just want you to clarify for me.  Who was driving that other vehicle that Vuyo shot at?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We could not see the driver, I don't know his name, I don't the name.

MR PRIOR: Could you see if whether was a black person or a white person?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was a black person.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can, can you tell the Committee what was the reason why Vuyo fired the shot?  Do you know what was the reason?