Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-05-19

CHAIRPERSON: This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee. The present members of the Committee are Judge Mall as Chairman, Judge Wilson on my left and Ms Khampepe on my right.  The leader of evidence is Mr Robin Brink and the attorney appearing for the applicant is Mr Williams.  Are we ready to proceed?

JUDGE WILSON: Before we do, can you turn that light slightly up or slightly sideways.

MR BRINK: Mr Chairperson and members of the Committee, this is the application of Patrick Ndlumbini for amnesty.  The victims concerned were Ndimphiwe Nthekiso and Eric Xegetwane. Mr Nthekiso was served with a form 2 notice, by registered post at his last known address which was care of the SAPS, Onluste-eenheid 10, Maitland.  That was the address given to me by the prosecutor of the Wynberg Magistrate's Court - Regional Court, rather.   Mr Xegetwane, we had great difficulty in tracing the man, but I understand from my colleague that in fact he saw him at court recently and advised him that the matter was proceeding, but Mr Xegetwane not only indicated he was not the slightest bit interested in this application or indeed, with the continuing proceedings in court.
	The position relating to the applicants in this matter, is that he has, I understand, pleaded guilty to the charges and has been convicted very recently. But he is to return to court for sentencing on or about the 16th of July this year.
	I do not know whether Mr Nthekiso is present. May I just ascertain?

CHAIRPERSON: Please do.  Mr Williams, are you ready to proceed?

MR WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, before I proceed with leading the applicant, I just want to give a short background, your Worship - Mr Chairman, with regard to this matter.   The trial of - this case has been partly heard.  Initially the applicant pleaded not guilty in respect of both charges relating to both victims.  The reason for that was that the only evidence that the State had was a confession which was allegedly extracted from the applicant under duress. It is on that basis, he contested the admissibility of the confession.  The matter has been protracted and continued over a lengthy period and at the last court hearing, the applicant pleaded guilty in respect of the one matter, and that is the one relating to the Ndimphiwe Nthekiso.  The reason being that the other victim, Mr Eric Xegetwane indicated that he is not interested in the court proceedings.
	So the case had been postponed for sentencing to the 16th of July.  Mr Chairman, I will not proceed with leading the further applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Just stand.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Are you prepared to take an oath?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: (Duly sworn, states).

MR WILLIAMS: Mr Ndlumbini, are you going to give your evidence in English or in Xhosa?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: I think I am asking for the Xhosa. I would prefer Xhosa, I would use the Xhosa language, if it is necessary.

MR WILLIAMS: Mr Ndlumbini, are you a member of any political organisation?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: I am a member of the African National Congress, MK.

MR WILLIAMS: When did you join this organisation?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: I joined the organisation in 1985, in the African National Congress. I went for training inside the country underground and then I left in 1988, early 1988. I crossed the borders.  I went to Zambia. From Zambia I went to Angola, I was training there.

MR WILLIAMS: Can you tell the Committee what is the reason why you joined the ANC?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: It is because of the oppression here in South Africa, that was one of the reasons that made me, and some of my comrades were killed.  They were killed, that was in the Guguletu 7.  They were killed under the regime of apartheid. I was forced to go there.

MR WILLIAMS: So is it correct that you saw the ANC as a vehicle for effecting change in South Africa?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes, I have seen that ANC is only the organisation that will bring the changes here in South Africa, and I take my decision to go and join the African National Congress.

MR WILLIAMS: You mention that you received military training whilst you were outside the country.  Is that correct?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes, after I joined the African National Congress, I received - I have received military training here inside the country, and then I have fulfilled the missions.  I was ordered to attack certain places and then after that, yes, and then I moved.  When after that I moved out of the country.

MR WILLIAMS: Mr Ndlumbini, did you receive military training whilst you were outside the country?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes, I received military, my basic training was in Angola and then also I finished my training in Tanzania.

MR WILLIAMS: When did you return to South Africa?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: I returned to South Africa in 1991, the time the exiles were coming back home.

MR WILLIAMS: Now after you returned back to South Africa, what work did you do, where did you work?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: At that time I started to be assistant guard of Comrade Chris Hani.  So we were guarding Chris Hani, the time he was visiting Cape Town.

MR WILLIAMS: So were you based in Cape Town?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes, I was here in Cape Town.

MR WILLIAMS: And can you give the Board an indication what happened whilst you were guarding Chris Hani?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Well, the time I was guarding Chris Hani we were attending the meetings in Crossroads and Khayelitsha and in Hermanus, where Comrade Chris Hani was going to brief the people about the development.  And after that we were on the way to Stellenbosch.  So it is where Comrade Chris Hani explained to us that there are - we are in the car, the Mercedes-Benz and three comrades inside.

MR WILLIAMS: Yes, you can continue. Continue?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: So I was at the back with Comrade Chris and Comrade Xhoxho who passed away.  Xhoxho, he was shot dead.  So we were, it was me and him and the driver and Comrade Chris, and Comrade Chris is telling us that the people are complaining and the MKs here inside the country, but there are attacks that the people are complaining with, that at night there are attacks - he tell us about the death squad and also the detectives and the taxi wars and the gangsters and all these things.  So he explained to us that we must take initiatives because we are the soldiers, we are here, and now the people, they are looking at us and as they know that we are inside the country.
	So we was waiting for him to tell us something but so he tell us that no, you must take initiative and you must ask the civic organisation, so that they can discipline people.  So those disciplined people who can ask from civics so that we can train them, so that these people can defend the people from these attacks of which, at that time in 1991, it was happening in our townships, you see.

MR WILLIAMS: You referred now to taxi wars and gangsters.  Who were they actually attacking?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: In the question of taxi war, there were a lot of fighting in New Crossroads, also in Guguletu, also all around.

JUDGE WILSON: Were these people disorganising the life of the community, by the violence they were bringing?

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes, because what was happening, the innocent people were killed,  you see and the people who were not involved in this taxi wars.

MR WILLIAMS: And is it correct that Chris Hani essentially told you that you must start protecting these people, the community?

JUDGE WILSON: I don't understand that to be from his application. What Mr Hani told you, wasn't it, that you must form self-defence units in the community.

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: This was a community effort, that you should get members of the civic community to form self-defence units and you must train them.

PATRICK NDLUMBINI: Yes. Yes. Yes, yes.