Special Hearings — Helderberg Flight Special Hearing — 1998-06-01

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: These ones here Sir?  What I wanted to clarify is that the basis, and I'll try and make it a simple straight sentence without repeating myself.
 The purpose of the big discussion on the tapes is based on the fact that there was communication between the aeroplane and ZUR.  Now in the evidence the people who were there before, the Mr Dick and Mr Naude, they stood up for the system and said it's a wonderful radio system and it's in actually fact a very relevant system.  You could to ZUR all the time.  Well, in actual fact they were wrong.  They gave wrong evidence to the Court, they were incorrect.  And the point that I make is right.  Now why I brought that evidence from this last flight and also in addition to this, when Mauritius radio called ZUR 3 times x four frequencies the following day and didn't get them, the point I'm making about it is that HF Communications is not a telephone.  That is the first thing.  The probability we had over six hours no contact a matter of a week ago, and this is just an example because it happens every second night.  It's not every night, it depends on the ...[indistinct] sphere and I've brought documents to give to the Commission to show that the base line of saying that communications did take place Sir, it did not take place.  If they did transmit there it skipped distance over the top, on top of the world, through the ...[indistinct] sphere and there was none there.  Doctor Klatzow is a scientist and I'm very happy to give him all these documents.  I've got documents from Aikaho, from Iata, from Afri Region, the whole lot of them, to show that HF radio is not a good means of communication.  So the simplest assumption that you can say, I spoke to ZUR or was suggested by a lady who came to see me in Mauritius, she said: "You telephoned", I said: "No, Madam it's not a telephone, you're lucky if you get it", so ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Does that seek to confirm that there was nothing on the tape?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: That seeks to confirm that the probability that there was no transmission between the aeroplane and ZUR.  And then my next link to this is, if that is the case and the man had heard it, he would have written it down but he didn't ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Would that kind of evidence not have helped Justice Margo then in coming to an informed decision in his inquiry?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: But he did.  He said there are five pilots on this Commission and he has come to the conclusion that there's no point in going down that particular road, that's exactly what he said.

MR MAGADLA: So it was the basis of your evidence or your information that Justice Margo came to the kind of finding that he came to?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, Sir.  Mr Germishuys, Mr Thomkins, all the other people were pilots there.  I was not part of the discussion with anything with the Commission or the Judge.  I only went there once Sir, for this meeting and then I was a witness.

MR MAGADLA: But if you were so clear in your mind about helping Justice Margo, how is it that you have this kind of difficulty about informing about the tape that had been taped over or producing that tape?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: It was so irrelevant Sir.

MR MAGADLA: Irrelevant?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes, yes.  If I know that there was no communication and my man didn't write anything then, I know what radios can do and I know what radios can't do and they didn't call.  So if it didn't come through them, I just disregarded it, it was very low priority.

MR MAGADLA: But hearing that, I think it has been said quite often here that he was furious about this issue of the tape and you were there then to say: "Judge it is relevant because I know there was nothing on that tape"?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: It was said Mr Commissioner, it was said.  It was said that what was written down was on, Mr Nadel handled all of that.  I didn't handle any of the ZUR processes, the other four people, I think it's four, spoke to Judge Margo and handled the whole process.  At the end of it he said: "That's enough of that".
 So, I don't run ZUR, they were one of the many things that were there but I certainly didn't run ZUR and hence the reason, when I knew there was nothing on the tape and nothing on the sheet, it's a very low priority process.

MR MAGADLA: But finally, there has been talk of a delay in this plane taking off from Taipei.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes, Sir.

MR MAGADLA: Now what about that delay, what was the
reason and how was it explained?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, I don't know.

MR MAGADLA: Was there no delay?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I don't know.

MR MAGADLA: Are you hearing it for the first time now?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: At the back of my mind I think there was a delay.  There was a 20 minute or, there was an incoming aeroplane for moving cargo or something.  An incoming aeroplane had ...[intervention]

MR MAGADLA: Was that on the ZUR?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: No, no, no, I read that there was an incoming aeroplane and there was cargo to be transferred from A to B.

MR MAGADLA: Cargo to be transferred from A to B?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Yes.

MR MAGADLA: What sort of cargo?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I don't know.  Pilots don't know what's the cargo and that is quite important too.  A pilot doesn't know what the cargo is, he merely signs the load sheet and that sort of thing.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Excuse me to interrupt, I would just like to know if there is anything to be photocopied to save time?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: I've brought the photocopies with me, so I've got a double to give to you.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Wonderful, thank you.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: It's very important what I tell you.

MS TERREBLANCHE: I would just like to ask one question quickly, you were quoted very recently in the Saturday Star of 23rd of May 1998 and in it you are to have said:  "The truth about the event leading to the Helderberg crash will probably exceed even the wildest fantasies of any ...[indistinct] fiction writer.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Commissioner ...[intervention]

DR KLATZOW: Could I answer that for you, because the quote emanates from a reporter who listened to the conversation which I had with you and misquoted you and the quote about that is incorrect.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Sir, you're on my side for once.

DR KLATZOW: No, I'm on your side all the time Captain Mitchell, when you're on the side of truth.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Ja.  Commissioner I brought this in to say the first thing that I want to take about, is that, I got this on Saturday morning when I got to South Africa and clearly, I don't have to go any further, that's wrong.

DR KLATZOW: That particular quote is wrong.  What you did say to me when I put these versions to you at the original tape recorded conversations I had with you, was that: "You could believe these stories about the tape recordings and what have you if you believed or if you read James Hadley Chase".  That is what you said, quote.  And that was taken out of context and misquoted to give the quote which is in the paper, which I must apologise for although it was not my fault.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Where did she get the tapes?

DR KLATZOW: What tapes?

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: The ones, how did she manage to get that?

DR KLATZOW: Because I played it to her in my study.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Really?

DR KLATZOW: Yes.

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Oh dear me.

DR KLATZOW: Not: "dear me".

MICHAEL PETER MITCHELL: Dear me.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Okay, are there any more questions that you'd like to put?

DR KLATZOW: Just one last question Madam Commissioner.

MS TERREBLANCHE: Yes, Doctor Klatzow?

DR KLATZOW: It must have been very - you must have been very curious as to what happened to the Helderberg?