Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-12

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, I am not trying to get into an argument with him, but I do not know how to respond to his question now.  What I am going to say is, the Koyoco that left the streets near my house proceeded to Amatola and thereafter the other two vehicles that were parked at Metal Box.  Then were another two vehicles that had been travelling along Umzimvubu.  They assembled and proceeded towards the hostel.
	Thereafter I came back just to make sure that everything was okay.  I then climbed onto the rooftop of the garage.  I was on my stomach in fact and I was watching out for what was happening.  It was at that point that I saw these two vehicles parked at Frikkie Meyer.

MR STRYDOM: I understand your evidence now, but what I'm saying is that yesterday you testified that at the time the light or the flare was fired into the air, you were on the garage.  Now it seems to me that you were not on the garage but standing somewhere in the street when you saw all this.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I did not mention the garage yesterday.  You did not question me on the garage yesterday.

MR STRYDOM: Sorry, I didn't question you, but sorry in your evidence-in-chief ...(intervention)

MR LAX: I just wanted to confirm for your sake, Mr Baloyi, that this matter was raised in your evidence-in-chief with you, by Mr Berger, and you did in fact say that you were on top of the garage, you saw a Koyoco parked under a tree in Amatola Street, and then you went on to describe how it moved and then the flare and a whole lot of other things, giving the impression that you were on the roof when you saw all these things.  So he's not tricking.  In fact you did give that testimony yesterday.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I cannot comment on it because we discussed many things yesterday.

MR STRYDOM: Apart from that one occasion when you saw this light being created in the air, did you see that again a bit later during the course of that same night?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: What I also saw were two buses coming from the direction of KwaMadala Hostel and they were travelling along Frikkie Meyer.

MR STRYDOM: Mr Baloyi, I'm not asking about - I just want to know, did you see another flare being fired during the course of that night?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No.

MR STRYDOM: Because I want to put to you that evidence was led at the criminal trial that after the attack a flare was fired on the KwaMadala side of Frikkie Meyer, to look for possible people that were hiding in the swamp there.  So you cannot give any comment?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, I did not see that.

MR STRYDOM: I want to refer you to Exhibit CC, that's the statement ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Strydom, before you do, I'm just trying to assimilate what you've just put to him, but I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, so just for my own benefit.  Are you saying that another flare was fired at a different time?  In other words that two flares were fired, or are you saying only one flare was fired?  I'm not sure what you're putting to him exactly.

MR STRYDOM: Sorry, I shouldn't have used the words "other flare".  According to the evidence at the criminal trial, a flare was fired after the attack on the KwaMadala side of Frikkie Meyer Boulevard, close to the swamp.
	I want to return to your statement, Exhibit CC, and just to put you into perspective I'm going to read from the fourth last paragraph:
"When they left the house, they left a suitcase in the living-room that did not belong to me, containing glasses and ladies shoes."
Do you agree with that?

CHAIRPERSON: What paragraph is it?

MR STRYDOM: The fourth last paragraph from the bottom.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay.

MR STRYDOM: Do you agree with that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Did this happen in my house?

MR STRYDOM: You found a suitcase and there were ladies shoes in that.  That is correct, you already testified that.  Do you agree with that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is so.  The suitcase burst open.  That suitcase belonged Mxena, whose wife was killed in the street.

MR STRYDOM: And then you told the person who took the statement
"I then went outside and climbed onto my roof. I was watching the group of people leaving the location"
- locations.  So according to this statement, and that's what I want to put to you, it seems to me that after you left your house you went onto the roof.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: We did not stand watching for a long time, we just looked and returned back.  We did not spend two or three minutes there, we would just watch for a moment and return maybe to the house and look at the other things.  There was no time just to stand around.

MR STRYDOM: But then you went along to state
"I also saw two police vehicles, one Nyala and one casspir, escorting the group of people.  The police in the Nyala shot a white flare into the air."
Do you agree with what is stated here or not? - that I just read to you.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: This refers to what I've just told you about what happened at Metal Box, or is this a different issue altogether?

CHAIRPERSON: I think what he is trying to point out is to reconcile what you have told us and what appears in your statement.  In the statement you are recorded as having said the following: - and listen carefully.
"I saw two police vehicles, one Nyala and one Casspir escorting the group of people."
Is that statement correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, that is not how I put it, no.  Escorting people, I did not know anything about that.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the statement goes on to say
"The police in the Nyala shot a white flare into the air."

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is so.  They were not in the Nyala, it was the police who alighted from the Koyoco.  There were three vehicles there.

MR STRYDOM: So this statement should have read
"Three vehicles escorted a group of people"
... not two?  Isn't it so?  Because you told us there were three vehicles driving behind people, with reference to the group of people that fired the flare.  So the reference here to two vehicles cannot be correct, do you agree?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is a mistake.  I just mention what I said.

MR STRYDOM: And then the statement goes further, and I'm going to read to you
"In the open field there were two cream-white trucks that were also leaving the location and were following the group of people to KwaMadala Hostel."
Is that statement a correct statement?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Cream?  How could I see the paint?  Where does it come from that they were cream?  I do not know about it.  There were Koyokos there but they were not that colour.

MR STRYDOM: You see I want to ask you where it comes from because, do you suggest that the person that took the statement just wrote there: "two cream-white trucks"?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: White?

MR STRYDOM: Cream-white.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, I do not know where he got that from.  Where does that person come from, where did he get that?  I was pointing out the people that I was with when they wrote the statement, I pointed out what happened and how it happened.  I only mentioned what I knew, what I saw from my house.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't at any stage tell the person who was taking your statement what the colour of the Koyoco was, did you?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, with regards to white, it's the first time I hear of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Now he's not saying that it's white, he's saying it was cream-white.  But you didn't tell the police ...(intervention)

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I never mentioned anything about cream-white, I just mentioned that they were Koyokos.  The colour of the paint was of no concern to me.

MR STRYDOM: And you also didn't say "trucks" because what's written down here is trucks, not Koyoco or Casspir or Nyala, as has been previously recorded in your statement.