Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

WITNESS:   I didn't hear anything from the police.

BATHINI NGCOBO: These policemen, from which city were they?

WITNESS:    /These

BATHINI NGCOBO: These were black and white policemen.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Do you know them?  Do you know one of them?

BATHINI NGCOBO: I don't really know them.  I don't really remember the investigator, but I can't remember his name.  I just remember his face.  No, I don't remember the name.

BATHINI NGCOBO: But if comes before you can you identify him?

WITNESS:  Yes, I can.

BATHINI NGCOBO: After this incident you were afraid, you ran away.  Where did you run to?

WITNESS:   We ran to my brother's house just next to our house.  We stayed there for one day and came back to our place.  We stayed at our place.

BATHINI NGCOBO: In your statement you said after two months your house was burnt down.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   Yes.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Who burnt the house?

WITNESS:   I don't know.

BATHINI NGCOBO: When did they burn the house?

WITNESS:   I wasn't there at the time.  We were sleeping at the hospital.  When we arrived back we found that the house has been burnt down.

BATHINI NGCOBO: You said you were at the hospital.  What happened to you?  Were you sick?

WITNESS:   No, I wasn't sick, but that's the place where we used to go and seek refuge and we slept at the hospital.

BATHINI NGCOBO: It means when you came back the house was burnt?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

BATHINI NGCOBO: In your statement you said some of your cattle were stolen.  How many were they?

WITNESS:   They were five.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Can you tell who did this?

WITNESS:   No, I can't remember.  I don't know.  Everything happened at night.

BATHINI NGCOBO: When all these things happened I didn't hear anything as to what the chief's reaction was.  Are you under a chief?  Who is the chief?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's Chief Ndwelane. Did he happen to know all the incidences that you experienced?   ---   Yes, he did.

BATHINI NGCOBO: What did he say?  He didn't say anything?

WITNESS:   Yes, he didn't say anything.

BATHINI NGCOBO: You said you have four children and they are not attending school.  Why are they not studying?

WITNESS:   After their dad passed away I was not able to send them to school.

BATHINI NGCOBO: You say the first one is 10 years old.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

BATHINI NGCOBO: The last one, how old is he?

WITNESS:   I have mentioned in my statement, like I have written their ages, and I also brought their certificates, birth certificates.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Have they ever been to school?

WITNESS:   Yes, the other one was doing standard five, the other one was doing standard four.  The other one was still young, but he was doing standard one.

BATHINI NGCOBO: At the moment they are at home?

WITNESS:   Yes.

BATHINI NGCOBO: But you wish that they must go to school.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

BATHINI NGCOBO: And how do you survive yourself?

WITNESS:   (No reply)

BATHINI NGCOBO: Take your time.

WITNESS:   (No reply)

BATHINI NGCOBO: Take your time and we will wait for you.

WITNESS:   (No reply)

BATHINI NGCOBO: Can we now start?  These people you said they help you support yourself in the shacks, who are they?

WITNESS:   These are people who just come in and leave.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Your children, did they see the people or the whole incident when your husband was shot dead?

WITNESS:   Yes.  I also think they were psychologically affected, because it looks like they were affected, and the way they were  asking questions during the funeral.  (Pause)  I am sorry.

BATHINI NGCOBO: We would like to apologise.  We would just like to

BATHINI NGCOBO: ask some few questions as to how we can help you.  These sufferings that you went through, how did these impact on your life as you have already told us that your husband was killed in front of your children.

WITNESS:   This has caused us much pain.  Most of the time when things go touch the children always say, "If Dad was alive things were going to be better."

BATHINI NGCOBO: Does it mean that they always talk about their dad?

WITNESS:   Yes, they always say if he was around he was going to help us.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Here you requested the TRC to assist if possible to help you to send your children back to school.  Is that true?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Because your husband was the breadwinner at home.

WITNESS:   Yes.

BATHINI NGCOBO: This food that you get from the other shacks, is it enough for the children?

WITNESS:   It's not enough, but there's nothing I can do.  I just take whatever I get.

BATHINI NGCOBO: After all these sufferings that you have gone through have you ever been in contact with psychologists or other doctors to help you?

WITNESS:   We went once to one place.

BATHINI NGCOBO: I can't hear you well.

WITNESS:   We just went somewhere where like food was distributed and we get some small portions of food.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Sorry, I am talking about your psychological problems, things like worry, like you have nightmares, seeing all the incidents what happened before.  It's necessary that you get into contact with people who can  help you.  Did you ever go to such people?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't go to such doctors.

BATHINI NGCOBO: Maybe you need to be put in contact with them so that they can help you.

WITNESS:   Yes, we'll appreciate that.

MRS GCABASHE: Mrs Ngcobo, we pity the whole situation, especially your harassment and the loss that you have suffered.  You also told us that you are not working.  In your statement it's written you were born in 1983.  Can you exactly tell us exactly as to what is the correct date of your birthday?

WITNESS:   I don't know because I am not educated.

MRS GCABASHE: But in your view do you think that you are someone who is ready now to get pension?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever try to get pension?

WITNESS:   No, I never tried to get pension benefits.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever go to welfare services to get some help?

WITNESS:   No.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you for coming to talk to us today.  You have suffered a great deal.  We have heard many, many stories from people who've come to this Commission, but yours is one of the saddest stories I've heard.  We've all suffered in some way during our lives, to think of how you have suffered, you have watched someone shoot - murder your husband right in front of you, you have had your house burnt down, and you have had all your assets, your cattle, stolen from you.  And that is a terrible burden to carry, and we really do extend our deep sympathy to you.  I would just like to ask do you have any idea of why those  /things

COMMISSIONER: things were done to you, or to your husband?  Do you have anything that you'd like to tell the Commission here today

COMMISSIONER: why you think - why did that happen?  Do you know?  Do you have any idea?

WITNESS:   I will say that I don't know exactly the reason behind this.

COMMISSIONER: Do you have any idea of who those people were, or who sent those people, or why they did it?  Do you have any idea of who those people might be?

WITNESS:   I don't even know the people or whoever sent them.

COMMISSIONER: You don't know where they come from?

WITNESS:   I don't know.

COMMISSIONER: When you discussed it with your neighbours did they share any ideas with you as to who it might have been, or didn't you talk to your neighbours about it?

WITNESS:   I couldn't stand for what I get from other people because people told us a lot of stories.