Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-30

CHAIRPERSON: Ja but was he - oh is he here with you?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh I see okay.  So you were arrested together in Middledrift did you say.

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct, we were arrested in Middledrift and we were arrested unlawfully.

CHAIRPERSON: Now did the police find any of the stolen goods in your or your cousin's possession?

RHANDILE BHAYI: They never found anything in our possession.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether they found any of the stolen goods in the possession of the other applicants?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I do not know about that.

CHAIRPERSON: What did they have in court when you were being tried, did they have the firearms in court?

RHANDILE BHAYI: You mean in court?

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, when you were tried in the Supreme Court?

RHANDILE BHAYI: That will never happen that you'd see a person with a firearm in court as we were busy in the trial.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, no let me explain to you.  You actually misunderstood me.  Did they bring, did the police bring the firearms that were used in these attacks, the rifle of Hansel to court to show the court here's the rifle that was used by the accused?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they bring anything else apart from firearms?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I think there are other things that were brought in court but I cannot remember them clearly but a jacket was also among them.

CHAIRPERSON: Groceries?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I did not see any groceries.

CHAIRPERSON: So you remember the jacket and firearms, you can't remember anything else?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Otherwise you've just heard that there were other things that were taken in these incidents.  In the court, you just heard people saying in the court that there were all sorts of taken from their farms?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes I heard that.

CHAIRPERSON: You've never seen any of those items?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I cannot remember whether I saw them or not because this incident happened quite some time ago.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes I assume you're talking about court, seeing them in court because I understood you to have said you hadn't seen it at the scenes of these crimes?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I said what I noticed there in court was a firearm and a jacket.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Alright.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Bhayi, do you know how did it come about that you were arrested.  Why did the police arrest you, how did they know to arrest you?

RHANDILE BHAYI: They asked my mother about my whereabouts and she told them that I was in Middledrift as I used to go there to Middledrift.  I went there for the treatment of an eye, that was something that used to happen before.

ADV BOSMAN: But do you know why they asked you mother, why did they suspect you?  Why did the police think that they must go and look for you?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I want to say these police went to my home with Mr Hunsian Ntonga.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kincaid, have you got any re-examination?

MR KINCAID: I have none Mr Chairman thank you.

RHANDILE BHAYI: There is something else that I would like to clarify, actually it is a request.  I would like to request that I be given an opportunity to explain something that we did of which I did not apply for and the incident of the Matamela Hall.  I was there and I saw everything that was happening there at the Matamela Hall.  I would like to be given an opportunity to explain that scenario.

CHAIRPERSON: We understand that you were there when the Advocate was leading your evidence.  He asked you whether you were there and he asked you also to confirm whether what Jimmy told us was in fact how it happened and what happened at the hall.  Is there anything else that Jimmy left out that you want to add that we haven't heard before because it's not necessary for you to tell us again exactly what Jimmy said to us.  If there's anything that he didn't mention about the hall incident, by all means you can mention it to us but I want to ask you not to repeat what Jimmy had already told us.  We have taken very detailed notes of that and we know exactly what he told us what happened there.  So do you understand that?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes I do understand that but there are other things that he forgot about that were taking place in the hall.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, can you briefly just tell us what it was that also happened in the hall that Jimmy didn't refer to?

RHANDILE BHAYI: When we were at the Matamela Hall I was standing next to the church bell.  The police came, they instructed us to get inside the hall within five minutes but it was a lot of us, it was impossible for us to get inside the hall.  Just before that, five minutes elapsed, they fired i.e. the police and the soldiers.  There were police casspirs and the military vehicles.  They fired inside the hall.  Having done that they left.  After they had left the hall the police and the soldiers, we tried to help the other people injured in the hall because that hall was made of cement bricks and corrugated iron and people sustained injuries from the material that the hall was made of and the glass and even the hall itself was demolished, the walls, and the people who sustained injuries there were taken photographs of.  One of those people was a person who was a teacher at Stutterheim.  He got injured in the leg and the other casualties were elderly people.  Those people were taken to the hospital in Stutterheim.  In Stutterheim they were not welcome, they were then taken to King Williamstown and to Mdanzani where they were admitted.  Those who sustained minor injuries were treated in the local clinics.
	The person who was there was a Reverend Father and Mr Njtingwa, that is Reverend Ntjingwa, and another one who is a mayor in Stutterheim who is known as Chris Makwanani.  Those Reverend went out of the hall being assaulted by the police.  That is all.
	Other things that took place in the - after this incident of the hall it was at the soccer playground where Umfana Green was addressing the meeting telling us that we are to go to the farms and intimidate the farmers to leave their farms and get weapons from them.  We took an action on that very same day.  In one farm, Madameni Farm, what happened there was this.  We surrounded the house, pelting it with stones, trying to get this white man out of the house.  This white man was a soldier.  We could not reach his place because he went out and he started firing and we set garage alight where his tractor was kept.  After having done all these things, after the Kei route, we left with a comrade, Umfana Green was present and the others and Mujoju Ndane and Apol Ndane were there and the others.  We got into this house of this white man.  We pelted the roof with stones.  No one came out but we saw the cars inside the yard.  I had petrol in my possession and we went into the house and we caused chaos and we searched the house for weapons.  Fortunately we saw this big truck with weapons inside.  We took this truck out of the house.  We poured petrol inside the house and we set it alight.  After having left that house we also got hold of an axe, we destroyed this trunk with this axe.  We found two firearms, a long one and a short one but during the time because some people who were arrested on that day, in court the owner of the house came in court and he said he is not prepared to lay charges on anyone because he knew very well that the comrades were the cause of these things so he was actually doing away with the charges, he was dismissing the charges.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you.

MR KINCAID: That is the evidence for this applicant, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.  Mr Bhayi you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED