Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR BERGER: Did you make any attempt to find out who the leaders of the ANC in Boipatong were, who the leaders of the SDU's, Self Defence Units in Boipatong were?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

MR BERGER: You never discussed it with Prince Vanana Zulu or Victor Keswa or anyone else?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

MR BERGER: What position did Victor Keswa hold in the IFP, during the period 1990 to 1993?

MR MKHIZE: I do not know him to having had any position.  I do not know if he had a position in the youth.

MR BERGER: You don't know that on the 3rd of July 1991, Mr Ernest Tsotso's wife, his daughter and his six year old son, were shot dead at their home in Boipatong?  You don't know about that?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not know about that.  I may have heard about it, because there was a lot going on at that time, but I may not have known exactly whose family it was.

MR BERGER: The allegations were that Mr Victor Keswa and residents of the kwaMadala hostel were responsible for this attack on Mr Tsotso's family.  Did that ever come to your attention?

MR MKHIZE: I have already said that I do not know about it.

MR BERGER: You see because Mr Ernest Tsotso was a prominent leader of the ANC in Boipatong at that time.  You didn't know that?

MR MKHIZE: I have already mentioned that I do not know any leader, ANC leader, from Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mkhize, did you at any stage prior to the attack on Boipatong, receive information that there were people from the hostel who were attacking people in the township, from time to time?

MR MKHIZE: No.  I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you at any stage prior to the attack, hear that there were allegations that people like Keswa were attacking people in the townships?

MR MKHIZE: No.  I did not hear about it.  They may have done this covertly.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I understand that you may not have been aware of those attacks, but what I am asking you is, did you at any stage hear of those allegations?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you ever heard that there were allegations that there were people such as Mr Keswa who would attack townships?

MR MKHIZE: No.  I only heard after they were arrested.

CHAIRPERSON: As a leader of the AmaButho in the hostel, did you make any enquiries from Keswa about these allegations?

MR MKHIZE: I have never questioned him, because they did not reside at the hostel all the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you concerned about the allegations?  You see, you were in charge of - were you in charge of AmaButho?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you said AmaButho were the military wing of the hostel?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: If an attack was to be launched, AmaButho would be involved?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So if there was an allegation that an attack had been launched from the hostel, would that not concern you that AmaButho would carry such an attack without your approval?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you not try to investigate about it?

MR MKHIZE: With regard to this instance, I was not able to investigate because no one claimed to have knowledge of that incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you investigate?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask anybody?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did discuss it with Prince Vanana and he didn't have knowledge of who had committed the act.

MR BERGER: Thank you Chairperson.  Victor Keswa and other residents of the kwaMadala hostel were arrested as you say, in relation to the Ngalembe night vigil, but they were then released and in fact, Prince Vanana Zulu asked the Court at their bail hearing, to release the accused into the car of the hostel dwellers at kwaMadala.  Do you know about that?

MR MKHIZE: No.  Victor Keswa was not arrested for that incident.

MR BERGER: What incident was he arrested for?

MR MKHIZE: I am not very sure.  There were various crimes that he was arrested for, but he was not arrested for the incident at the night vigil, because he was in hospital.

MR BERGER: Do you know of an incident in July of 1991, where approximately 300 men from kwaMadala hostel attacked the residents of Boipatong?  Do you remember such an incident?

MR MKHIZE: That is precisely the incident we are discussing.

MR BERGER: No, no, July 1991, about a year, eleven months before the massacre?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not remember that.

MR BERGER: Do you know a person by the name of Billy Mokuthedi?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not.

MR BERGER: You don't know of the allegation that he was killed by residents of Boipatong, July 1991?

MR MKHIZE: The same Billy?

MR BERGER: Yes?

MR MKHIZE: Was he an IFP member?

MR BERGER: Would it make a difference?  Do you know of a person by the name of Billy Mokuthedi who was allegedly killed by Boipatong residents?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not know him.  Maybe I do know him, it could be that I do not recognise the name.

MR BERGER: I am still in July of 1991, do you know anything about an incident where two people were killed and houses were damaged, when armed men went on the rampage in Boipatong, July 1990?  This is now the 29th of July?

MR LAX: Did you say 1990 or 1991?

MR BERGER: I beg your pardon, 1991?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember that incident.

MR BERGER: Do you remember a stay away that was organised by COSATU in August of 1991 where COSATU protested against ISCOR for allowing kwaMadala to be used as a base for attacks by members of the IFP on residents of the Vaal?
	I can tell you the stay away was on the 12th of August 1991.

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember.  It could have been at the time when we were in prison.

MR BERGER: Unless you have been in prison for other offences, I am talking about August 1991, before the massacre, about ten months before the massacre?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember.

MR BERGER: In the middle of August, the 15th of August 1991, between 300 and 500 Boipatong residents marched to ISCOR.  They had a memorandum which they handed over to the ISCOR management, demanding the closure of kwaMadala hostel because kwaMadala was being used as a base for attacks by the IFP on residents of the Vaal.  Do you remember that protest?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know that the, or were you aware at the time that the residents of Boipatong were unhappy about the fact that they were being attacked from kwaMadala hostel?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.  There was a  lot of conflict between us and the residents of Boipatong.  I know that they were unhappy about us.  We also were unhappy about them.

MR BERGER: No Mr Mkhize, the attacks were coming from the kwaMadala hostel.  I will tell you the attacks from the residents of Boipatong.
	One I told you was in relation to the death of Mr Billy Mokuthedi, that was the end of July 1991.  There had been attacks before that by certain elements in kwaMadala hostel on the residents of Boipatong and the residents of the Vaal in general, that is July 1991.
	The next incident in relation to Boipatong, was on the 12th of January 1992, when Mr Bongani Mbatha was killed.  That was the next incident.  So it is from July 1991 to January 1992 and during that time, and before July 1991, there are these attacks from kwaMadala hostel.  Can you comment on that?

MR MKHIZE: I do not know about that.  What I do know is that Bongani Mbatha was killed in Boipatong.

MR BERGER: And you know that he was killed on the 12th of January 1992?

MR MKHIZE: Are you referring to Bongani?

MR BERGER: Yes?

MR MKHIZE: I am not certain of the date, but I do know that he was killed in Boipatong.

MR BERGER: You said that you held meetings in the hostel, and residents were complaining about the fact that IFP members and supporters were being killed every day and you held one such meeting, two weeks before the attack on Boipatong, that would put it roundabout the 3rd of June 1992, am I correct?