Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-11

ADV SIGODI: Now if he said that it was Inkatha that was going to attack, why did you think that the Police were going to attack you when you saw them, why did you link the Police with the Inkatha  when you saw the "koyoco" in front of your house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Because earlier on when they started firing these teargas, they were indiscriminate and some of this teargas would go into people's houses.

CHAIRPERSON: We understand that the Police shot teargas, but what you are being asked is that the warning given to you was that it is the IFP that was going to attack either Boipatong or the other township.  What you saw standing next to your house was a Police vehicle, is that right?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: It was not an Inkatha motor vehicle, was it?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, it was not an Inkatha vehicle, but they used to work in collusion with the IFP, they would frequent the hostel from time to time.

CHAIRPERSON: So the Police were working with the Inkatha?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, they did.

CHAIRPERSON: When the Police came earlier that day, shooting the teargas at the comrades, you did not think that was the beginning of the attack?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I did think so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: You just said that the Police used to frequent the hostel, what do you mean by that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: What I am saying is that I would see the "koyoco's" going to the hostel, they would come through the township, head straight for the hostel.  The Vaal Command would come to the township and they would also go to the hostel.

MR STRYDOM: But what is sinister about that, I mean that is the main road going to Iscor, that can be part of a normal patrol so is there anything sinister in your mind, about that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The other vehicles would not go straight to Iscor.  They would just go and park in front of the hostel at the parking lot.

MR STRYDOM: Did you see them there?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It was not for the first time that I saw them do that.

MR STRYDOM: Could you see from your house at 732 Bafokeng Street, what is going on in front of the hostel?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I do not mean that I saw them parked at the hostel, but from my house I can see as far as the robots.

MR STRYDOM: Yes.  Mr Baloyi, it seems to me what you want to suggest is that the IFP and or kwaMadala hostel was in cahoots with the Police, is that what you are saying, for a long time?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.  Very well.

MR STRYDOM: Why do you say that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Because when we were attacked, they were there.

MR STRYDOM: So only at the stage when the township was attacked, did you form that opinion that the Police and the IFP were working together?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It confirmed that they were working together because they travelled together after the attack.

MR STRYDOM: I will return to the house, you say that you saw the "koyoco" outside and you thought that was the beginning of the attack.  Did you tell your wife that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.  I told her that the people who were going to attack us, have arrived.  The engine was not even running.  Normally when they travel along the road, they will make a lot of noise, the engine would make a lot of noise, but on this particular day, it was just silent.

MR STRYDOM: Did you tell your family to run away or not?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I told them to go into the toilet because it was big and it had a steel door.  I also told Dududu to go into the toilet as well, and that they should lock the door and wait there.

MR STRYDOM: Did you move to the window to have a better look?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: My dining room looks like this space here, whether you are seated or standing, you can see outside.

MR STRYDOM: So did you remain seated, is that what you say?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, I did not continue sitting.

MR STRYDOM: What did you do, Mr Baloyi, that is what I want to find out?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I stood by the window and looked at the street, I also went into the bedroom and looked through the window.  I was just keeping watch all over.

MR STRYDOM: So this "koyoco" was clearly visible, did it have its lights on?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, the lights were on dim.

MR STRYDOM: Before that stage when you saw the vehicle, did you hear any shots being fired in the township or anything of the kind or was the first sign for you that there was an attack, when you saw the vehicle?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The shots were fired at Nqwani's home, the house that they went to as I was watching through the window.

MR STRYDOM: But before you saw the vehicle, did you hear any shots being fired or not?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No.  I did not.

MR STRYDOM: When you looked through the window and you saw this vehicle, apart from the vehicle that had its lights on dim, what else can you say about the occupants, about anything else in relation to this vehicle?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, it is not possible to see the occupants.  You can't see properly, you cannot identify a person.

MR STRYDOM: So it was dark, is that what you are saying?  Was it dark?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, there was sufficient light.  You could see everything.

MR STRYDOM: What source provided the light outside?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I hope you know what the township looks like, there are tall electric poles and they provide light, you can see just about everything.

MR STRYDOM: Those Apollo lights, are those the lights that are there?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Isn't it so that the closest Apollo light to you, is the light in Batswana Street?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Oh, you know because from Batswana Street, it casts a very bright light to my area or to my house.

MR STRYDOM: If I put it to you that the Apollo light is more or less in front of house 790 Batswana Street, is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I know the area.

MR STRYDOM: That is why I am asking you, do you agree with me?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: If this light was so bright, why didn't you see the people in the vehicle?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The windows of that vehicle are not very big, you cannot see a person or an occupant properly.  You just see them a bit.

MR STRYDOM: What was the colour of this vehicle?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I am not a Police Officer to know the different colours.  The Police are the people who know the colours very well.

MR STRYDOM: But these "koyoco's" and other Police vehicles used to patrol the streets of Boipatong during that time, isn't that so?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, they would not patrol, they would just be parked in front of our houses.

MR STRYDOM: So it was absolutely nothing strange to see one of those vehicles in the township, isn't it so?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It was not strange, but because of the attack, I would say it was surprising.

CHAIRPERSON: If these "koyoco's" used to come and park in front of your houses, why are you not able to tell us what the colour of this "koyoco" was?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I will put it this way, white people are very clever.  After they had attacked, the "koyoco's" or after an attack, all these "koyoco's" would be resprayed in a different colour.    Therefore  you cannot really speak about the colour, because they would respray all of them.

CHAIRPERSON: Before they were sprayed, what colour were they?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The casspirs are yellow, the pick up vans, Police pick up vans are also yellow.  The casspir has a blue stripe as well as a blue light on top.  The "koyoco's" have a back door.  The colours are sometimes grey and some have the same colour as Police camouflage uniforms.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, the "koyoco" has more than one colour.