Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-09

MR SHANE: All right, A21 Lekwano Street, Tokoza, you took part in arson there.  Give a full description of what you did.

BONGANI NKOSI: In A81, that is a Thabete house, I was staying at 18 and the Thabete family was staying at 21.  We were planning how to destroy that household.  There were lots of shacks in that yard, and the Zulu's were there.  As this was my favourite job, shooting was my favourite job, and I decided to do the job myself, I went there shooting and when they were still taking the covers, we got the opportunity to set the shacks alight and they did not come back again, they ran away since then.  We told ourselves that we had defeated them.  That was the Thabete household in A21.

MR SHANE: So that wasn't a shack, that was a house that you burnt down, is that correct?

BONGANI NKOSI: The shacks were built right around the house, a lot of shacks were built in that yard.

MR SHANE: You destroyed the shacks and what did you do to the house, the actual house?

BONGANI NKOSI: We stoned the house, we used hammers to demolish the house until nothing was left.

MR SHANE: Now, these Thabete people were almost your neighbours, correct, they lived very near to where you lived?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: What happened to the Thabete family?

BONGANI NKOSI: They ran away, they fled.

MR SHANE: Have you ever had contact with them since?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, I saw him and we greet one another and the situation is that they come and check the place, they know that they used to stay there.

MR SHANE: If for example Thabete happened to be at home on that day and having said what you said about shooting, do you think you would have killed Thabete had he been there?

BONGANI NKOSI: We were very angry on that particular day.  Even the dog wouldn't survive.

MR SHANE: Was Thabete, was the Thabete family IFP members, IFP sympathizers, do you know?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, I have no doubt about that.  Even if you can ask me that question at 2 am, I will tell you that yes, I knew that family very well.

MR SHANE: But as you said now, you are now at peace with the Thabete family, as you are with the IFP?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, there is peace in our residential area, you can walk, you can walk from one place to another.  There is no place that is a no-go area, there is no violence.

MR SHANE: Right.  You also involved yourself in arson at A4 Mazibuko Street, Tokoza?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, it is where we used to tip toe and go to and it was very difficult to go to other places, to those places that were on the other side.  That used to be an IFP territory.  I went there to set the shacks alight also.

MR SHANE: Can you remember when it was?

BONGANI NKOSI: No, I cannot remember.

MR SHANE: Can you remember how many shacks there were?

BONGANI NKOSI: No, I cannot.

MR SHANE: Who was with you?

BONGANI NKOSI: These two heroes that I was talking about, Sicelo and Charles.

MR SHANE: Then you burnt four shacks at A21 Lekwano Street?

BONGANI NKOSI: I do not understand your question about A21 and the burning of the shacks.

MR SHANE: Will you describe what happened with that incident, when was it?  When did this burning of the shacks at A21 Lekwano Street, happen?

BONGANI NKOSI: I told you that that was the Thabete family house.  I have explained that.  I do not dispute the fact that I burnt down the shacks there.

MR SHANE: Right.  Then you are applying for amnesty for the burning of Albert Mlaba Mafulela's house.  Do you remember that?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: How many counts of arson have we got now?

MR SHANE: Sorry, I did not get that Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: How many counts of arson have we dealt with already?

MR SHANE: This will be the last, I believe it is four Mr Chairman.  This is the last act, one was repeated Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Let me tell you what I've got.  The one at A18, the one at A19?

BONGANI NKOSI: Nothing happened at A19.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, A18, there were two not so, two shacks?

MR SHANE: Two shacks, that was his yard where he lived, as I understand.

CHAIRPERSON: At A21, there were four shacks burnt and one house destroyed with hammers.  The house destroyed with hammers would be malicious injury to property?

MR SHANE: Correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: So we've got six and at A4 Mazibuko Street, we've got another burning as I understand it, one shack?

MR SHANE: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So we've got seven already?

MR SHANE: Yes, if I can just clear up.  This house that you said you destroyed with hammers, did you burn that house at all or was there no burning on that house, did you just burn the shacks?

BONGANI NKOSI: A21 is Thabete's house, the one with the shacks.  As we were burning the shacks, the following day we came to demolish the house because the shacks were built next to the walls of the house.
	Though the walls of the house were effected by the flames from the burning shacks, we came back the following day to demolish the house with hammers.

MR SHANE: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: The walls of the house at 21, the Thabete family house, those walls were scorched?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that was in A21.

CHAIRPERSON: Then that is arson?

MR SHANE: I would submit both, arson and malicious damage to property together, although it was one act.  The house was destroyed not by the fire though, although it might have been damaged by fire.  That is just academic Mr Chairman.
	Now Albert Mlaba, who was Albert Mlaba?

BONGANI NKOSI: He was an IFP member.  He was a handsome guy, you wouldn't think otherwise of him.  We knew him very well.  He used to shoot, he was very good in firing and at that time, I could fire and I knew that I can stand him.  We planned and we went to his place and we inserted a burning tyre in his house and the occupants of the house ran away, because they could see, they could feel that we were very angry.
	We inserted the three tyres in the dining room.  The roof was made of asbestos and the house was set alight.  We ran away because there were no occupants in the house.

MR SHANE: Did this house burn down, was it destroyed by the fire?

BONGANI NKOSI: No, it is only the dining room, the roof, that was destroyed.  Maybe the floor itself, I cannot remember whether there were vinyl tiles or something else, but I think it was destroyed.

MR SHANE: You were together with Charles and Sicelo, is that correct?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Was there anyone else with you?

BONGANI NKOSI: No, I was always in the company of these two gentlemen because I knew that they were very brave.

CHAIRPERSON: ... of Albert Mlaba's house?

INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please repeat the question.

CHAIRPERSON: The address of Mlaba's house?

BONGANI NKOSI: The house is in Mazibuko Street, in the A Section, but I cannot remember the number, A2,3,1, but it is amongst the first smaller numbers.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR SHANE: Have you since had time, have you seen Mr Albert Mlaba?

BONGANI NKOSI: I have been with him so many times, we talk and discuss about peace in the area.  We discuss a lot of issues with him, and I even asked him to sell his house to me and I had visited him to discuss because I want to buy his house, the very same house that I had set alight.  Even if he is driving passed, he just hoots and greets me.

MR SHANE: Have you actually apologised to him personally for what happened to his house?

BONGANI NKOSI: Truly speaking, it is appearing for the very first time that I am the one that set alight his house.  It is only today that I have revealed that information, because I am asking for amnesty.
	Even if he is not here, he must know that I came forward to ask for amnesty.  Even our own houses were in danger.  I think as from today, he will know that I am the one that set his house alight.

MR SHANE: It is correct from what you said, that you consider Albert to be your friend now?  You are quite friendly with him now, is that right?