Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

MR NKOSI: What I remember was that, is that people were called before the court.  But I don't have enough information as to how the court case was conducted.  The only thing that I know is that my child was not called to appear before the court.  And thereafter I didn't go further to follow the hearings.

YASMINE SOOKA: So when you went to court you went out of your own and not because the police issued a subpoena or asked you to come to court?  Do you remember whether you received a document from the police asking you to come to court?

MR NKOSI: No, I wasn't asked to appear before the court.  The only reason why I went to court, is because I felt since he was guarded at the hospital, I thought he was one of the suspects.  So if the others were to be called before the court, he was supposed to appear too.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you remember when you spoke to Lawyers for Human Rights, do you remember the name of the person that you spoke to at Lawyers for Human Rights?
 I know it's a long time ago.

MR NKOSI: The lawyer's name, I can't remember well, but he was an Indian man.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was it a Mr Colepin?

MR NKOSI: I can't say that, I might be lying.  I don't remember.  However, he was a young man.

YASMINE SOOKA: And can you tell me;  did you discuss taking, bringing a case against the police, with these lawyers;  for the shooting of your son?

MR NKOSI: I didn't talk to him about that, because I thought my child will also be charged or maybe if he doesn't get convicted;  then they might start some civil proceedings.

YASMINE SOOKA: But you never brought any civil proceeding?

MR NKOSI: Yes, we didn't.

YASMINE SOOKA: Also, just a little about the injuries that your son sustained.
 You say that the bullets, that the bullets that were used, actually past right through his leg.  And can you tell us a little bit about the injuries that your son sustained and about the hospital treatment the he underwent at the time?

MR NKOSI: The injuries;  I would say that he was shot just right through the ribs and then the bullet went through from the front to the back and I shall say that the bullet opened a very big hole and some small, a number of small holes at the back.
 That's what made me suspect that it was another kind of bullet, those spreading bullets.  Small bullets or splints happened to hit him on the arm.  And there were five stitches.  And through the navel to the back there are about 12 stitches.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did the hospital, could they tell you how many times your son was shot?  Was he shot once or more than one time?

MR NKOSI: They didn't tell me anything about that.  But I think and believe that it was one shot.

YASMINE SOOKA: And this policeman;  do you know whether he still lives in this area?

MR NKOSI: He's still around ...

YASMINE SOOKA: Is he - sorry, carry on.

MR NKOSI: It looks like he's an investigating officer and he also got promoted.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you also tell me the case;  did it take place in Middelburg, the case that was heard?  Was it at the Middelburg Magistrates Court, the court case?

MR NKOSI: The case was held at Belfast.  On the first date it was in Belfast.

YASMINE SOOKA: And did your son return to school after he came out of hospital?

MR NKOSI: Yes, he did go back to school.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did he finish school?

MR NKOSI: He didn't finish and at the present moment he's in Durban at a technikon and we're trying to help him, because I don't think he can do some heavy jobs.

YASMINE SOOKA: What is he studying at the technikon in Durban?

MR NKOSI: He's studying ML (...indistinct) technikon.  He's starting information technology.

YASMINE SOOKA: Is he in his last year or what is he in?

MR NKOSI: It's the 2nd year.

YASMINE SOOKA: I see.  Thank you very much, Mr Nkosi.

CHAIRPERSON: May I just ask one follow up question on your son?  In your statement you say he is not presently in a stable condition.  What do you mean?  Is it simply that he's weak or is there other complications?

MR NKOSI: His problem is that the operation is so extensive.  And also his hands isn't well.  They make it difficult for him to cope when it comes to work under heavy conditions or doing some tough work.

CHAIRPERSON: But otherwise he's stable.  It's not that there's anything threatening or - he copes as he is?

MR NKOSI: I would say that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me.  One other question;  in your evidence you said that the community organised this march protesting the rent.
 Now your statement was taken through an interpreter.  You spoke in Zulu and it was written down in English for us.  So something might have gone missing.  That usually happens in translations in that fashion.   
 But in your statement to us, you are saying that the community organised this march against the municipal police who were violating human rights.  Is there a connection?

MR NKOSI: Yes, there is a connection.  This particular policeman, he was working as a police for the municipality and he was involved in municipality matters, I mean in connection with rent.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he issuing summonses or in what way was he involved in the collection of rent?  Don't you pay this at the offices of the municipality?
 I'm not trying to put you questions that you can't answer.  I want to know, really, what the subject matter of this gathering was?  Was it really focused on rent or was it on the violation of human rights by municipal police?  And if so, what were you referring at?

MR NKOSI: I would say it was concerning rent boycott.  As I wasn't deeply involved in such matters, I just heard that there was a meeting for rent boycott and that this policeman was also suspected as one who abuses people when it comes to rent issues.
 And that's all that I know, because I wasn't that fully involved in such things.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, but the focus was not the human rights violation by policemen.  The focus was the rent boycott.  So we can strike the other from our record, just for our personal records.

MR NKOSI: I would say the cost was the rent issue.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Thank you very much, Mr Nkosi.  Thank you for having come to us.
 There seems not much outstanding in terms of what we can really follow up to get more information and I think the information as to what has happened is clear in your mind;  much more clear than in most of other cases that are coming to us.  
 Especially where people have disappeared and so on or have died.  That does not say that you're not experiencing pain.  We acknowledge it, especially if it's your child.  We can just imagine what is must mean to a parent, although we haven't personally experienced that.  Or certainly not all of us, not many of us.  
 We wish you well and to the extend that we may be getting more information.  We will communicate that to you, but you will in any event be hearing from us in due course.  Thank you for coming to us.  Also to your sister.  May you go well.  Hambagashle.
 Ladies and gentlemen I think this is an opportunity, time again for us to break for lunch.  It seems to be some announcement here.  
 The idea - just before you get up please - tell me what this is about.  I forgot my glasses at home.  I'm going to ask Mrs Sooka to read out the note here to you, just a second please.

YASMINE SOOKA: We would like to say that we are very pleased that the following people have come to participate in the hearing and have graced the hearing with their presence:   Mrs Mapule Maseko from the local Reconstruction and Development Committee.
 Could you stand please, so we could acknowledge you?  Thank you.  Thank you mama, you may be seated.