Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

<UNKNOWN>: Could you continue Captain?
ANSWER:
3b "...Father /...
MR DU PLESSIS 306 J HECHTER
  "...Father Makatshwa's telephone at that time had beenbugged by the security police and because of this and becauseof access to the phones of other prominent activists, it was possibleto obtain information that Father Makatshwa at a particular daywould have arrived at Durban airport.   From where he would havearrived I cannot remember, I cannot remember whether this waslocal or international travel but we made preparations to eliminatehim at the airport in Durban.   The arms were already preparedat that time because of the information received.   With a Kombiwhich I can no longer remember the model or colour, I can rememberthat there were curtains in front of the windows, we screenedthe inside of the Kombi with curtains and there was also a curtainin between the seat of the driver and the back of the vehicle.   Very early that morning we departed at a time I can no longerremember and I can no longer remember what time Father Makatshwawas supposed to arrive, we had his flight number and the timeof arrival.   We arrived in Durban, I can remember that we arrived...(endof side 2)...clear view of the main exit of the Durban airport.  At a certain point, Father Makatshwa who was very well knownto us, we saw him leaving the exit but he was, there were oneor two people in between us and him all the time, there was someor other woman and possibly two men, one or two men but I couldbe mistaken.   There was a woman in front of him all the time.  As they came closer to the
4. Kombi /...
MR DU PLESSIS 307 J HECHTER
   Kombi we were parked in such a way that we had a clear viewwith which to shoot.   It was very dark inside the vehicle andas Father Makatshwa walked closer and became ever clearer, thiswoman was in between him and us all the time which meant thatwe could not fire on him.   Mr Van Vuuren who grew up on a farmwould have been the shot.   Subsequently when he had passed us,we decided that we would follow him to see if we could not eliminatehim along the road with an AK-47 rifle.  What happened however,was that he entered a particular vehicle, I cannot remember atall what kind of vehicle, what colour of vehicle or how many peoplewere in the vehicle, but I can remember that when you leave theairport, (apologies), you had a toll-road through which you hadto exit and where you had to pay.   The vehicle in which FatherMakatshwa was driving left through the toll-road and then a personbetween us and him had some trouble to find the ticket with whichto pay at the toll-gate and then Father Makatshwa drove off.  By the time we had paid to leave the toll-road, we could no longersee his vehicle, or it was no longer available.   We drove overa bridge and if I remember correctly, the bridge had a road goingtowards the South Coast, one to the North Coast and one to theblack township and we did not know in which direction Father Makatshwahad driven, so we decided that that would be the end of the matter.  We then took the North Coast road towards Durban and then
4. we /...
MR DU PLESSIS 308 J HECHTER
   we turned home.

<UNKNOWN>: Captain who gave you the instruction to eliminateFather Makatshwa?

ANSWER: Captain Loots called us in at that time and GeneralBasie Smit was our Commanding Officer.   I was called in and toldthat it was decided that Father Makatshwa had to be eliminated.  Neither of them was there Chair.

<UNKNOWN>: Captain Hechter, the question is when you receivedyour instruction, who was present?

ANSWER: My apologies Chair, Captain Loots gave me theinstruction directly claiming that it came from General BasieSmit and that it was to say that it was at that level.  CaptainLoots for the interest of it was my direct Commanding Officer,my immediate superior.

<UNKNOWN>: Captain Hechter you also explained a furtherevent in your application, could you explain this to the Committee?

ANSWER: At a later stage, the exact time is somewhatvague to me at this time, but I think it was early in the nextyear then Brigadier Smit gave instructions to myself and W/O PaulVan Vuuren calling us to his office, and being aware of our covertoperations, called us to his office and gave us instructions toplant a quantity of Mandrax tablets on Bishop, or on Father Makatshwaand that we had to force some down his throat so that it wouldappear as if he died from an overdose.   Myself and W/O Van Vuurenreturned to my office, discussed the matter, and decided thatat that time General Smit was new, he'd only been at the Branchfor a couple of months, and after the previous fiasco I did nottrust his approach, his modus operandi.   I discussed thiswith W/O Van Vuuren and told him that this might pass that
4. we /...
MR DU PLESSIS 309 J HECHTER
we had to just wait and see what happened.   The passage of timedoes pose a problem but sometime later, possibly two weeks ora month I cannot remember exactly, I was called in or both myselfand W/O Van Vuuren were called in by General Smit or then BrigadierSmit and he asked me to what extent we had prepared in this regard.  I then told him that I did not think that I would want to continuein this kind of operation and that I don't want to be part ofthis game any longer.   There was a big explosion in the office.  The Brigadier was very angry to such an extent that he transferredme from this Unit to a unit known as the, this was a unit in whichwe had to decide which people were appropriate for the SecurityBranch and I, and Paul was made into a driver who had to lookafter General Smit and he had to look after his garden, work inhis garden whenever there was work necessary.    In this way ouroperations at the Security Branch came to a complete halt.

<UNKNOWN>: Captain Hechter could this instruction havebeen carried out, realistically speaking?

ANSWER: It was highly unlikely since at great dangerto ourselves we would have had to intercept and kidnap FatherMakatshwa, we would then have had to force these pills with greatviolence down his throat.   Anyone with some experience knowsyou can't just push pills down someone's throat.   In my viewand out of my experience this instruction was not logically andrealistically possible and that's why I believe that this wasnot the right way to go about it.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MPSHE

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you Mr Chairman.   The rifles, who
4. built /...
MR MPSHE 310 J HECHTER
built...

ANSWER: At the Security Branch we had a technical sectionwhere specialised and technically trained persons worked and someof these persons prepared the firearms for us.

<UNKNOWN>: ...told as to the specifications of the weaponsyou wanted?

ANSWER: That was unnecessary to inform them what exactlythe weapons were to be prepared, what they did know was that Ineeded this for the purpose of elimination and that the targetand the date, well that was not known to them, they did not needto know that.

<UNKNOWN>: What I'm trying to ask you is these two weapons,did you, did anybody give the technical team specifications ofthe weapons, in other words how must it look, how must it be?

ANSWER: No, I prepared the specifications personally,whether we would use the 308 or .22 rifle.   I have some technicalbackground and knowledge of firearms.   I decided that we wouldneed a 308 or a .22 rifle, depending on the circumstances.   Inthe case of close range it would be a .22 or 308 for a furtherdistance, we were not quite sure at that time of our preparationsat what distance we would have to fire.

<UNKNOWN>: (Inaudible).

<UNKNOWN>: Yes positively so Chair.

<UNKNOWN>: What other weapons did you have in your possession?