Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-11

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.  As I have explained, the situation during that time was tense and it was difficult even to make contact with the person who is outside our unit, not unit, I mean outside Three Lines, on that small area.  We couldn't even phone, we couldn't even bother any transport to go to Madlanduna and explain the situation to him and even himself on the other side was busy and the entire township it was just a war.
	When we realised that there was such a threat, we decided to take the decision on ourselves and then we decided that we will tell him thereafter.  We took it upon ourselves.

MR STEWART: Did you tell Madlanduna or any of your other superiors about this incident thereafter?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, we did.

MR STEWART: What was their response?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I can't quite remember what he said but I can't quite remember but he did not object to what we did.

MR STEWART: Was what you did within your general instructions for what you were supposed to be doing in that area?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, it was our real job, a definite job description.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But the question is, was what you did within the general instructions, is that what you're saying?  You're saying: "Yes" to that question?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I say yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And if you say: "Yes", who gave you those general instructions and when were they given to you?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I will explain like this.  Firstly, training that we received, we were trained that when we return, we were told that when we come back we come back to fight against UDF.  There were times when there was no need for me to wait for an instruction to do something and at the same time knowing very well that I'm supposed to do this because I'm trained.  I'm given everything that I need to face such a situation at that particular point in time.

SISI KHAMPEPE: I still do not understand your response to my question.  Were you ever made to believe that if you saw it fit to take an action against a person you perceived to be a UDF member or a political opponent, you were free to exercise your own discretion in taking whatever action that you deemed appropriate?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.  This case that I'm talking about I'm talking about the case whereby if I were to sit and wait for somebody to give me some authority or instruction to do such a thing maybe that time wouldn't have come and that time would come whereby I'm dead.  I'm talking about an emergency case whereby I couldn't just sit realising that things are going wrong because that person was actually handing out guns to attack us.
	So if I find somebody who is a cause of all these things and I realise that this is the person and I know that I'm trained to do this, I wouldn't leave such a person and wait for another day that I do not know, to report such a case because we on ourselves as Caprivians we have agreed amongst ourselves what we should do. I actually saw that that was fit for us to shoot.

SISI KHAMPEPE: If I may proceed further Mr Khumalo, how long did it take you to verify the information that you got from Bongo about the activities of Mrs Xhaba?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: It wasn't a long time, because as I've explained Bongo I actually trusted him, that he wouldn't actually come with the wrong information and I also asked other IFP members who were around there.  It wasn't a long time.  I asked the very same day and I heard it on that particular day and that was it.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you able to verify such information within minutes or did it take you a few hours to do so?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: It was minutes, just speaking with those people who were residing there.  Those are the people who knew the place.  I was new in that area and I didn't know anything.  I depended on what I was told by other people.

MR MOLOI: Mr Stewart, may I just get one point clear here.
	The report you made to Madlanduna, do you remember where and when you did so?  That is now concerning this particular incident.

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I can't remember the place and time but I remember telling him that such a thing has happened.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, were you to your knowledge ever investigated in connection with this murder?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: I did not know whether there was an investigation whatsoever.

CHAIRPERSON: Just on the Mr Stewart.
	You said that you fired two shots at Mrs Xhaba and she fell, now it's been referred to as a murder.  Did you know that she died or did you establish that she died?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I know that she died because I saw in the morning there were police there and when I went, and even people in our surroundings, the IFP members, I actually went asking what happened and they told me that Mrs Xhaba was shot there across.

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, Incident 9 at page 366 is referred to as an attack on Chonco's house and it's said to have been 1988 in Mpumalanga, do you remember this incident?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I do remember.

MR STEWART: Will you tell us how you came to be involved in this?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes.  Here at Choncos I was staying nearby that place because I was residing nearby at Mkhize's so I was nearby.  It was the base of the comrades.  The comrades used to camp here.  Whenever they were going to attack or whatsoever they used to be here.  If there were riot investigations the police used to be there and the riot investigation used to be there and actually would come and hit us and maybe take those people to lock them up.
	On this day we actually heard the rumour and it was full on that day, we heard that there was a policeman by the name of Ntagani and this Ntagani was responsible for the death of other IFP comrades.  When we heard this, that Ntagani is there we should actually rush, make it snappy and maybe we will find him there.  
	By then it was Musakulu, myself and Bengu.  The gun that we had was an HMC which was with myself and a 765.  I can't quite remember who was holding the other but the third person had a knife.  When we checked, because we wanted to enter in front where they were standing, we couldn't actually enter through that area because they would see us but we wanted to surprise them.
	We finally decided that we will actually enter through the house that is on the left nearby the Choncos.  We actually decided to go through.  And actually that house had a high fence and we couldn't enter well.  We hid on the corner of that house and we fired because there were some people who were actually appearing there.  
	I shot with the HMC, Musa or ...[indistinct] was having the 65 and then we shot and then we left because those people disappeared.  We then ran away.  We went to stay at Zweli Dlamini.  Before we arrived at Zweli Dlamini we passed by the house at Langa and Musa said: "Here's this prostitute that is actually bothering us", and then we fired and then we left.  We actually scolded him: "Why you actually shoot just before we arrive at home", because we were actually telling the police that we are this side now. ...[intervention]

MR STEWART: Mr Khumalo, before you carry on, the first attack that you mentioned where you were firing from a neighbour's yard, are you aware whether anyone was hit in that attack, if anyone was wounded?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Yes, I heard because I was arrested after a week or two and I was actually charged with attempted murder.  I did not even ask how big or how many people were killed but I was charged with attempted murder.

MR MOLOI: Was it you alone or the group you were with who were charged with attempted murder?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: There were 10 of us.

MR STEWART: And now you've explained that there was a shot fired and if I understand you correctly, at a prostitute on your way home, who fired that shot?

BHEKISISA ALEX KHUMALO: Musa Xulu is the one who did that.