Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR MATUWENI: You came up with the name of Colonel Booi as a person who assisted you in making your statement. Only when you were cross-examined here yesterday you didn't mention that in your examination in chief. Isn't that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is so. I said there were other suggestions from other people that even if I am making statement I mustn't implicate the others because when they come back they will come back to me they might attack me.

MR MATUWENI: Who did you in fact save by not mentioning in your statement because you seemed to have mentioned four of you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I mentioned the four of them in my statement.

MR MATUWENI: Then could you explain what you mean by saying that you would save others by not mentioning them if you have mentioned all four? How would they be saved?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I won't be able to explain but I did mention them. But I am saying there were suggestions that when I am making my statement I must not implicate them.

MR MATUWENI: Is it correct that you claimed yesterday you were advised by a number of persons some of whom you no longer remember by name?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR MATUWENI: Would you be able to say about how many advised you to make this statement?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I wouldn't be able to say so.

MR MATUWENI: Would you be able to say which advice you followed of these many people who advised you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I won't be able to say Sir.

MR MATUWENI: Colonel Booi will deny that he advised you in any way in making your statement.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: If he denies that I don't know.

MR MATUWENI: Are you afraid of Colonel Booi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I am not afraid of him.

MR MATUWENI: What surprises me is that you were bold enough to mention the head of the security, General Kawe whom I would have expected you would be scared to mention and you then left out Colonel Booi in your evidence in chief. It was only after cross-examination that you mentioned his name.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Will you please repeat the question?

MR MATUWENI: What I am saying is I would have expected that you would be scared to mention the head of the security who was in a much higher position. But you were not scare to mention General Kawe as the person who tried to cover up and General Booi's name only came at cross-examination stage. How is that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't think there is anything that I would be afraid to say or maybe there would be a person that I would be afraid to mention his name.

MR MATUWENI: I would put it to you that you are falsely implicating General Booi. He never assisted you. Hence you didn't mention his name in your application for amnesty.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Colonel Booi was my superior. Normally you discuss with the person who is your superior. In cases like this he would give some suggestions to ensure that the case is destroyed to prepare the case for the court.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Matuweni when you put it to the witness that he never mentioned Colonel Booi in his application for amnesty you have got to be specific because as far as I recall he mentioned Colonel Booi as being a person who called him I think in about September 1995 I think it was and assigned him to the duties in Barkley where he was supposed to go and assist the South African security branch. I mean that occurs at page 8 paragraph 9 of the bundle. So perhaps you would have to indicate the context in which he omitted to mention him.

MR MATUWENI: Sorry Mr Chairman no I take your point. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was actually referring to the area of the cover. In your application for amnesty you mentioned that there was a cover-up and you mention specifically General Kawe. Is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR MATUWENI: Is there any reason why you didn't mention Colonel Booi at that stage if he indeed was involved in any way in the cover-up?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I won't say so.

MR MATUWENI: Why didn't you mention his name if that was the case?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: The person who called me to his office was General Kawe when he was telling me that I was to be charged, myself and Shabalala in order to destroy the case. And even by the time when we arrived he said only myself and Bra Mos who must make the statements.

MR MATUWENI: I will put it to you that you are twisting the situation in order to fit your application within the amnesty situation. That what you are saying in implicating General Booi is not in fact correct.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Colonel Booi was my superior where I was working. That alone I am not implicating him. He knows that.

MR MATUWENI: On page 18 of your statement you mention that you reported the matter to Brigadier Damooi. What was the value of that if that was not the truth? Why did you say you reported to Brigadier Damooi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I don't remember that concerning Brigadier Damooi.

MR MATUWENI: Could you turn to page 18. I think you have been referred to this before. The second last paragraph, at the end there. You said, the last sentence
"We then returned to Umtata and reported the matter to Brigadier Damooi."

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I see that.

MR MATUWENI: Could you explain why then you reported to Brigadier Damooi and not your supervisor?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It is what I don't know. Only Colonel Booi whom I went to.

MR MATUWENI: Colonel Booi will deny that (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon Mr Matuweni. Is the position that in the statement, in the handwritten statement you had written that you returned to Umtata and reported the matter to Colonel Booi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Colonel Booi.

CHAIRPERSON: That is what you said in your statement?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I think so Sir because I don't remember General Damooi.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's understand that when the statement was returned to you after it had been typed it now contained Brigadier Damooi.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: (... no English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: Well is that what happened? I am trying to find out.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I can't remember if I saw that at the time but I can see it now.

CHAIRPERSON: You see what I want to find out is in the handwritten statement that you wrote out yourself you had written that you reported the matter to Colonel Booi.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I am sure that he is the person that I talked to in the office.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) for one moment about. What I am asking you is in the statement that you wrote out in your own handwriting you had written: "We returned to Umtata and reported the matter to Colonel Booi."

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: When this statement was returned to you after it had been typed it now had a reference to Brigadier Damooi.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I just saw that now. I don't remember if I did see it before but now I can see it. I don't remember seeing it before.

CHAIRPERSON: I see so when you read the statement then before signing it you didn't notice that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MATUWENI: My learned friend had referred you to the same paragraph in cross-examination and you didn't speculate as you are now saying that it is probable that in your handwritten statement you had written Colonel Damooi. Why is that? You had two opportunities to explain this away?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Will you please repeat that question Sir?

MR MATUWENI: I am saying that my learned friend here Mr Wessels referred you to this specifically to your reporting to General Damooi. I have also referred you to it. But now it seems you are saying it is probable that you had in your written statement entered Colonel Booi and not Brigadier Damooi.