Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

MR MAKANJEE: Did you make any other statements concerning this event when you were back in Johannesburg from the Defence Force (indistinct) where you are now presently employed?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I was.

MR MAKANJEE: Who did you make this statement to?

PELO MEKGWE: To the representatives.

MR MAKANJEE: Which representatives?

PELO MEKGWE: The representatives of Mrs Mandela.

MR MAKANJEE: Why did you make a statement to Mrs Mandela's representatives?

PELO MEKGWE: It is because I thought that they are from the legal department of the ANC and ultimately they are going to represent me in this case.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Chairman, for the purposes of the record, we ask that any statement taken by the legal team of Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, be excluded as it is privileged.  My client was under the impression that he was giving a statement to his legal representative.
 We ask your permission to make a ruling on that.

CHAIRPERSON: I have consulted as you can see, and yes.

MR MAKANJEE: Tell me Mr Mekgwe, you made a statement and then you appeared at a press conference, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: Exactly yes.

MR MAKANJEE: Did you make this statement before you were asked to attend the press conference or after you were asked to attend the press conference?

PELO MEKGWE: It is before we attended the press conference.

MR MAKANJEE: When were you asked to attend the press conference?  Were you asked to attend the press conference after you had made the statement? ... (tape ends) ...

CHAIRPERSON: I hope the people will take note.  Hanif?

MR VALLY: Thank you Archbishop.  If I could just go through a few things with you.  When you gave evidence in the Jerry Richardson trial, his murder trial, were you talking the truth then?

PELO MEKGWE: It is not everything that is the truth by then.

MR VALLY: I beg your pardon?

PELO MEKGWE: It is not everything that was the truth by then.

MR VALLY: Well firstly, I will ask you just now what was not the truth, but why weren't you talking the truth then?

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat that question?

MR VALLY: I asked you at the Jerry Richardson trial, were you talking the truth and you said it wasn't everything that was the truth.  My first question is why weren't you talking the truth at the trial?

PELO MEKGWE: It is because I was not aiming to give the evidence by then.

MR VALLY: I am sorry I don't understand your answer.

PELO MEKGWE: I am saying the reason is that I was not prepared to give evidence.

MR VALLY: Were you in detention at the time you gave evidence?

PELO MEKGWE: Sorry?

MR VALLY: Were you in detention at the time that you gave evidence?

PELO MEKGWE: I was not.

MR VALLY: Did you have legal representation?  Did you have a lawyer?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I had.

MR VALLY: Why did you not tell the truth at the trial?

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat that question?

MR VALLY: Why did you not tell the truth at the Richardson trial?

PELO MEKGWE: As I said, I said to you now that I was not prepared to give evidence.

MR VALLY: You were not a willing witness?

PELO MEKGWE: I was not willing to give that evidence.

MR VALLY: Why not?

PELO MEKGWE: Because when I judged the government that was ruling this country by then, it was the apartheid government and ultimately I was against everything by then.

MR VALLY: I am going to jump a bit.  I want to jump after you had been taken from the manse, after you had been assaulted, I want to take you to the incident of Leratodi Ikaneng.
 Do you remember that incident?

PELO MEKGWE: I don't remember it exactly.

MR VALLY: All right, let me take you through it.  Did Jerry Richardson take yourself, Thabiso, Kenny Kgase, Killer and Isaac to (indistinct) to look for a boy there?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, that is correct.

MR VALLY: Did you meet a boy along the way who tried to escape, were chased and caught?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct, yes.

MR VALLY: Did you hold one of his legs and someone stabbed him in the stomach and Jerry Richardson cut his throat?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct yes.

MR VALLY: Did Jerry Richardson tell Kenny Kgase to throw him over the bridge?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, he did.

MR VALLY: Did you talk the truth about this incident?

PELO MEKGWE: Sorry?

MR VALLY: Did you talk the truth about this incident?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, that was the truth.

MR VALLY: So what objections could you have about telling this to a court of law when such things could have been done and you could have been involved in it.  Were you involved in it of your own free will?

PELO MEKGWE: It was not on my free will.

MR VALLY: So what objections could you have to tell a court about such an incident?

PELO MEKGWE: The reason is that I was told to take part on that incident.

MR VALLY: You were forced to take part in the incident?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I was told to do it.

MR VALLY: Were you forced to do it?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR VALLY: Do you have any objections to telling a court this is a brutal assault which took place, which I was forced to be part of?

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat the question?

MR VALLY: Did you have any problems telling the court about this brutal assault which you were forced to take part in?

PELO MEKGWE: I said it in the court.

MR VALLY: Fine.  Let's go back.  This happened on the 3rd of January, you were taken from the manse.  The Methodist manse on the 29th of December 1988, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: I am not sure in terms of days, but it is a long time ago.

MR VALLY: Fair enough.  You were then taken to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's house, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct yes.

MR VALLY: You stated in the trial that accusations were made against you, Kenny and Thabiso as well as Stompie.  Allegations of homosexual activity, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: Correct.

MR VALLY: You said that these accusations were made by amongst others, Mrs Winnie Madikizela-Mandela.

PELO MEKGWE: She was told.

MR VALLY: Did she repeat them?

PELO MEKGWE: She repeated it because she was told as I am saying.

MR VALLY: You stated in your trial that the assault began on you when Mrs Madikizela-Mandela assaulted you with open hands and fists and sjamboks used.

PELO MEKGWE: She didn't use the two things that you mentioned.  As I said, I think I said to you and to everybody else that she used only open hands.

MR VALLY: Why did you lie in court about this incident especially since it was an apartheid court and you wouldn't want to give them false information about someone who was involved against  the system, why would you lie to court about that?

PELO MEKGWE: I was doing all these things because I wanted the case to finish.

MR VALLY: Whether you said that or you didn't say that, what difference would it have made to the length of the case?

PELO MEKGWE: The time was going and I wanted the case to finish as I say.

MR VALLY: So you gave details of Mrs Madikizela-Mandela using a sjambok and using a fist because you wanted the case to finish quicker?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR VALLY: I want to talk to you about the second assault on Mr Stompie Sepei.  Briefly you all were assaulted as a group the first time.

PELO MEKGWE: Exactly.

MR VALLY: Who took part in these assaults on you?

PELO MEKGWE: The members of the Football Club.

MR VALLY: Can you give me some of the names?  Was Jerry Richardson there?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, he was.

MR VALLY: Was the name I've got here is Slash, was he there?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, he was.

MR VALLY: Was Killer there?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR VALLY: Was Katiza Cebekhulu there?

PELO MEKGWE: Katiza was part.

MR VALLY: Did Xoliswa Falati take part in the assaults?

PELO MEKGWE: She did yes.

MR VALLY: What did she do?

PELO MEKGWE: She helped with the beating.

MR VALLY: What exactly did she do?  Did she punch you, did she kick you, did she sjambok you?

PELO MEKGWE: She punched.

MR VALLY: Did her daughter take part in the assault, Nampobolelo?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.