Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-11

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: From time to time, very irregularly, Mr Chair.

MR VISSER: Did you gain the impression that Mr Cele was willing to co-operate?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I was informed by both Taylor and Vorster that he was not prepared to co-operate.

MR VISSER: Please carry on with paragraph 12.
MR WASSERMAN
"Much much later, Col Taylor informed me that it was virtually impossible for this man to co-operate and I then went in and I had a chat with him.  He then gave me the impression that he would not co-operate.  I slapped him three or four times.  It made no difference whatsoever."

MR VISSER: Was this a serious assault?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: No, it was not serious, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Why did you slap him?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Up to that stage Mr Taylor and Mr Vorster had been "Mr Nice Guy", in one of the techniques that we use, so I was prepared to see if the raucous shouting and few slaps would create a different environment, but it did not work.

MR VISSER: Alright.  In paragraph 13 you say that Taylor then spoke to you and Vorster and stated that it's clear that Cele was not recruitable, is that correct?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Continue there please.
MR WASSERMAN
"He gave us various reasons.  He did state that if Cele were to be released it would be an embarrassment to the South African Government, as he had been abducted illegally in Swaziland and brought out illegally to the Republic.  That was one of the major reasons."

MR VISSER: Yes, and could Cele, according to your insight, be released to go back to Swaziland unhindered?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: No, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Why not?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: He could have - he would have continued with his activities.  In addition, placed Sikhakane in danger, as he would have realised by now that he was an agent of the Security Police.

MR VISSER: Yes.  And you say in paragraph 13, Taylor then ordered Vorster and yourself to see to it that Cele be eliminated?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Did you associate yourself with that order?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes, I did, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: What did you then do, you and Vorster?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Vorster and I then proceeded to the pine tree plantation where we commenced to dig a grave.  And once we had dug that grave we returned to the house where Mr Taylor was still with Mr Cele.

MR VISSER: Yes.  You remember something when you entered, is that correct?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.  Once when we'd entered the house, Mr Taylor gave us the sign that Mr Cele was to be now taken outside and to be eliminated and I realised that Mr Cele had not - had decided not to co-operate at all.

MR VISSER: And that you had to proceed.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: And we had to proceed with the operation.

MR VISSER: Yes.
MR WASSERMAN
"We then informed Mr Cele that he was going to be moved to another safehouse.  We blindfolded him so he could not see where he could go.  His hands were handcuffed behind his back."

MR VISSER: Now the blindfold you're talking about, Mr Vorster seems to remember a hood made of material of some kind.  What is your recollection, if anything, about the blindfold?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I can't recall if it was a bag or if it was merely a piece of cloth wrapped around the eyes, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Alright.  What did you do then?
MR WASSERMAN
"His hands were cuffed behind his back and we took him outside, outside the house and off the veranda and along the road, he walked along the road to the graveside."

MR VISSER: Did you steer him in the direction which you wanted him to go?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Yes.
MR WASSERMAN
"At the spot right next to the grave I had in my possession a police baton.  I rendered him unconscious with a heavy blow to the head."

MR VISSER: Why did you do that?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: To render him unconscious, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: For what purpose?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Then I was able to shoot.  So he would not know.

MR VISSER: Alright.  Please continue.
MR WASSERMAN
"Once unconscious I shot Mr Cele twice in the head."

MR VISSER: What with?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: With a silenced makarov.

MR VISSER: Was this your firearm?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: No, this makarov had been given to me earlier by Mr Taylor.

MR VISSER: Right.
MR WASSERMAN
"He was then placed in the grave."

MR VISSER: And the grave was filled in?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Clothing first removed.

MR VISSER: I'm sorry yes, you removed his clothing.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: Can you remember whether you left any of the clothing on the body or whether you took everything off?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, I seem to recall he was completely naked, but I could be wrong.

MR VISSER: Yes, alright.  And then you filled in the grave.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: We filled in the grave.  After sprinkling some line on the body first, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Yes. Do you agree with Mr Vorster as to the reasons or the purpose of the lime?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes, Mr Chairman, I do.

MR VISSER: Right, and then what did you do?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: We then filled in the grave and then proceeded up to the house with the clothing and burnt the clothing to ashes, to cinders.

MR VISSER: How do you see your participation in this incident as you set it out from paragraph 19 onwards?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, in doing what I did I saw as my duties as a policemen ...(indistinct) of the Security Branch, and I saw it as relevant to battling the conflict and the political violence that we were undergoing at the time.

MR VISSER: Go on.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: We were conditioned by speeches of politicians and directions of our senior officers, to do all that was in our power to confront the revolutionary onslaught at all costs.  And there were times when in terms of the prevailing legislation of the time, it was not possible to solve all the problems that came our way.  And the present case is perhaps an example of such an instance.
	In view of the above, I was in the bona fide belief that what I did in the present instance, in order to combat or derail the revolutionary onset and to protect the government and the National Party from political embarrassment, did fall within my express or implied authorities.  
	I did not participate in these events for any  personal gain and was not driven by any personal spite or malice and I received no reward.

MR VISSER: You apply at page 1, for amnesty for the abduction or the man stealing - I notice in the Criminal Procedure Act it's two different offences Chairperson, I wasn't aware of that.  I'm not quite certain which is the major offence, although it would appear that abduction might be because under the old Criminal Procedure code, abduction was a capital offence, you could receive the death penalty for that.  But be that as it may, you apply for abduction or man stealing of Mr Dion Cele, his unlawful detention or depravation of his liberty, his murder - yes, I've forgotten Chairperson, I do apologise - for the assault on Mr Cele as you have explained, here in Swaziland as well as on the farm and for - and what I've also neglected to put in in your case is any offence in terms of regulations pertaining to movement, border movements.  Is that correct?  As well as any offence or delict which may be supported by the fact.  Is that so?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: That's so, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that is the evidence which we wish to place before you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: It has just occurred to me that we don't know the date on which this man was abducted.  Can you tell us when that was?