Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-16

CHAIRPERSON: What time, when did they leave?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: I assume it was early in the evening, dusk and when I remained behind and they went on.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they leave you at dusk at Onverwacht when they were going to fetch this young lady?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: That is how I remember it, yes, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: What time would that be?  We are talking now about October, dusk would have been when?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: I estimate probably six o'clock, half past five.  It could even have been half past six.

CHAIRPERSON: After the border post had closed?  You have told us the border post closed there at six o'clock as I understood your evidence?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Mr Chairperson, that was the evidence of Mr Botha.  I answered that I was not sure when the border post closed.
	If it was earlier, I would agree with that.  If it was an hour or half an hour before that, I do not have a problem with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?  Re-examination?

MR VISSER: None, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER

MR MALAN: Mr Steyn, I  would like to ask you a question that I asked about Mr Vlok and at previous opportunities.  This pressure that was interpreted as an expectation, in that you must act illegally, I think you also came to that conclusion, if you really interpreted it in that way, why would you not then at that stage, where these things were brought under your attention, then inform those above you?
	If you thought that that is what they expected of you, why didn't you then report back on successes because then the killing would then be a success?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Mr Chairperson, no, I would never have thought that I could deal with it in that way.  The responsibility was mine in Natal.  I still had the responsibility and I still had to keep the peace here in this area.

MR MALAN: Let us look at the Bhila case.  If Mr Taylor thought that it was expected of him to execute certain acts or acts like these, because the pressure is now from you onto him, why wouldn't he then report back to you and say I would just like to report back a success Colonel.  We took out Bhila, we will have no more problems?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Mr Chairman, I do not know why he did not do that.  But I would like to be honest and say that if he did that, and the circumstances was of such a nature that it fell within our framework, then I would have identified with it.  I would not have taken it any further.

MR MALAN: You would not have addressed him, this is now before Ndwandwe, a year before that, wouldn't you at that stage have said that we have got a certain framework and a structure and we have got certain capacities and abilities, would you not have scolded him?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Like I said earlier on, at that stage I already went through the school in the Western Transvaal where I had to deal with similar situations.

MR MALAN: Thank you Mr Steyn.

CHAIRPERSON: One purely geographical question, this farm house that you came back to, was it a farm called Elandskop or was it at the place Elandskop?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Mr Chairperson, as I understood it it was on the farm Elandskop.

CHAIRPERSON: In Maritzburg, the Maritzburg district?

JOHANNES ALBERTUS STEYN: Yes, in the Maritzburg area or district.

MR VISSER: At the risk of being blamed to give evidence Mr Chairman, the witness is wrong, we will give the right evidence to you later.  May the witness be excused Mr Chairman?
	I don't know whether you want to take a five minute break for change over Mr Chairman or whether we should go directly on with the next witness?

CHAIRPERSON: What do you feel, do you want to break?

MR VISSER: The shorter breaks, I am not quite sure how you have in your mind?  They seem to be eager to continue Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED