Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-11

J A VORSTER: I cannot recall whether his hands were cuffed when we transported him.

MR VISSER: But when you took him out to the place where you had dug the grave, his hands were definitely cuffed behind his back?

J A VORSTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: According to your recollection?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Very well, what happened there at the grave?
MR VORSTER
"At the grave Wasserman hit Cele unconscious with one blow to the head by means of a baton.  If I recall correctly he hit him on the right-hand side of his head.  Cele collapsed on the ground.  Wasserman and I then carried him to the grave, where we removed his clothing.  As far as I can recall he still had his underpants on and W/O Wasserman shot Cele twice through the head with a silenced pistol, in the left side of his head as he lay in the grave.  As far as I can recall, the shells ended up in the grave.  That is how I recall it."

MR VISSER: In your application, if I recall correctly, you stated that Wasserman went to fetch the firearm in a vehicle, is that correct?  Let me just make one hundred percent certain of that.  Yes, at the bottom of page 41 you have stated in your statement that
"W/O Wasserman (in the final paragraph, Chairperson) then took a silenced firearm which he had fetched from his vehicle."
Can you recall that clearly?

J A VORSTER: No, it is vague to me.  The vehicles were parked there and we walked past the vehicles.  It was dark.  I cannot recall this definitely or precisely.

MR VISSER: Because Wasserman's evidence will be that it is his recollection that he fetched the firearm from Col Taylor.

J A VORSTER: I would not be able to dispute that.

MR VISSER: Very well.  Please continue.  Paragraph 17.
MR VORSTER
"After this, as Cele's body lay in the grave we sprinkled lime over the body, which was there on the farm.  How it came to be there on the farm is unknown to me ..."
...(intervention)

MR VISSER: What was the purpose with putting lime over the body?

J A VORSTER: The purpose behind that was to keep wild dogs or animals away from the farm so that they would not uncover the grave.

MR VISSER: So it was to disguise the odour?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.
"After this we burnt Cele's clothing and thereafter we rejoined Col Taylor, who had been in the house all the time.  And after we had reported to him that we had eliminated Cele, we departed to our respective homes. And as far as I know, in my presence, Cele was never assaulted or badly treated."

MR VISSER: Yes, Wasserman will give evidence that he at a stage was guarding Cele while he was there on the farm, or at least that he was in his presence and that he assaulted him once, twice or thrice, that he slapped him with an open hand ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well that's - I think that you shouldn't bother about that actually.

MR VISSER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You can't tell him what Wasserman is going to say when he wasn't there.

MR VISSER: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You can't ask him to contradict or confirm that.

MR VISSER: No, what I want to ask him is this, Chairperson.
	Is it possible that Wasserman was alone with Cele at a stage and that he may have assaulted him when you did not see him do so?

J A VORSTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that's basically all I wanted.
	Please continue, paragraph 20 please.
MR VORSTER
"The acts and omissions which I committed, I committed in the execution of my official duties, upon the order of a higher officer whose orders I was obliged to execute.  I did this as part of the opposition to the struggle and my actions were aimed against supporters of a liberation movement.  Whatever I did, I did in order to protect the interests of the government and the National Party and to combat the revolutionary onslaught.  As such I believed bona fide that what I did fell within my express or implied authorisation."

MR VISSER: Now you request amnesty - if we could just return to page 1, for the abduction of Dion Cele, for his unlawful arrest, or depravation of his freedom, the murder of Dion Cele, the transgression of border control regulations, as well as any other lesser offence which may emanate from the facts of this case.

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, that's the evidence.  Perhaps - would you bear with me a moment please Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly, certainly.

MR VISSER: Yes, Chairperson, perhaps I should do this by way of a question.
	In your application the applicants which are appearing before did not mention the name of Goodwill Sikhakane.

J A VORSTER: That is correct.

MR VISSER: But afterwards it became known that the TRC in its Report, in volume 2, on page 132, paragraph 36, has indeed mentioned this name.

J A VORSTER: Yes.

MR VISSER: And from there then the fact that it is now being mentioned by you and the other witnesses.

J A VORSTER: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, Commissioner Lax referred to a report of an exhumation in a bundle.  It's just been pointed out to me that the only exhumation report that we have is in regard to Tekere, not in regard to Cele.  It may be that you may have a bundle which we don't have.

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair, can I respond?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.

MS THABETHE: Yes, it's my mistake.  I gave you the same bundle that you have, instead of the bundle of the exhumation report, but I've asked Ms Charmaine to get you the right copy.

MR VISSER: Well as long as it doesn't meant that I have to read that bundle twice, Mr Chairman.  I understand ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I don't know whether it is that relevant at this stage.

MR VISSER: No, thank you, Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct) matters of such detail.

MR VISSER: Yes.  That is the evidence which we wish to place before you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  You did say it was volume 2, page 132 of the TRC Report is it?

MR VISSER: Yes, indeed and it's at paragraph 369, Chairperson.  It reads very briefly
"Cele was persuaded by a colleague, Mr Goodwill Sikhakane to enter a minibus after leaving night classes in Manzini and then unbeknown to him Sikhakane was at the time an informant ..."
And it goes on to describe his abduction, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Thanks.  Have you any questions to ask this applicant?

MR NEL: I have not questions, thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Is there any cross-examination?

MS THABETHE: Thank you, Mr Chair, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Please put your questions.

MS THABETHE: Thank you.
	Mr Vorster, I must have missed the question.  I heard my learned friend asking whether you verified the information that you were given by Mr Sikhakane.  Was your response that you did verify it?

J A VORSTER: I did not verify information, the information came from Sikhakane himself.

MS THABETHE: Why didn't you verify it?

J A VORSTER: At that stage - or let me put it this way.  In my evidence-in-chief I also said that upon the evening before his abduction, we once again met with Sikhakane in order to determine once again whether Mr Cele would be willing to co-operate.  But Mr Sikhakane was the only source of our information at that stage, or at any stage for that matter.

MS THABETHE: If Mr Cele was willing to co-operate with you, as Mr Sikhakane had informed you, why was it necessary for you to go and abduct him?  Why didn't you command Mr Sikhakane to go and tell Mr Cele to approach you since he was willing to co-operate with you?

J A VORSTER: It would have exposed Mr Sikhakane's identity that he was already an informer of the SAP, and at that stage Mr Cele could have jeopardised Mr Sikhakane's life.  One would not use an informer to recruit another informer.

MS THABETHE: I don't quite understand it because you did go with Mr Sikhakane to abduct Mr Cele, isn't it?

J A VORSTER: Yes, that is correct.