Special Hearings — Mental Health Workshop — UNKNOWN

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct) can I say something? I think we must be clear about what was done yesterday. This was a compromise in view of the fact that we thought we can't have four groups. But I should think these, what has been put here it shouldn't really lead to a risk of us losing the theme. I can understand the concern where it's coming from. If we lose these things it can end up being like another general mental health exercise. So I should think what should happen in groups, people should be conscious of the fact that group 1 and group 2 has been collapsed together and then look at the theme which we have in our original document and make sure that they're not lost. What is here is merely a guide but the themes, that we have them focused. Make (...indistinct) of mental health care that's really a main focus.
 And then also they should know that there (...indistinct) intervention in government hospital and the themes are there. This was merely to assist people to structure their work but it shouldn't then make people lose focus. And again the concern that I suppose Michael is raising is under group 4 and 5 which has been collapsed under group 2. The facilitators will have to start off by talking to these things because this is really merely to help them.

PARTICIPANT: I've also written down under the heading of mental health intervention the heading called checks and balances, monitoring accountability. And I think a lot of the stuff that you talking about here could come under that sort of discussion from the use of appropriate testing to are there psychiatrists still in positions of power who in fact should not be there? So certainly in group 1 we'll be picking that up as well.

PARTICIPANT: So what was raised by (...indistinct) yesterday (...indistinct) in an important position. I should think those are issues which shouldn't be (...indistinct)

MR GREY: Okay are we happy then that they've been absorbed in the two groups?

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct)

MR GREY: No, no this is section 1.

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct)

MR GREY: No hang on.

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct)

MR GREY: No this is section 2, but this checks and balances is here.

PARTICIPANT: Is under 1 but torture and (...indistinct)

MR GREY: Torture is section 2.

PARTICIPANT: You combined two (...indistinct) generational (...indistinct)

MR GREY: This is 2. This is 2. It's decreed, it's going to be discussed in 2. That's all there is to it. It's 2 and this is 1.

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct) I think the onus here is on torture as a subject itself and (...indistinct) how are we going to do this and how are we going to look at it and where (...indistinct) all these people (...indistinct)?

PARTICIPANT: As a way forward can you just tell us about the programme? We're going to go into groups (...indistinct) and I think part of the (...indistinct) because of the nature of the (...indistinct) If there's going to be time (...indistinct)?

MR GREY: Yes. That's after tea, ja.

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct)

MR GREY: Ja, absolutely. So are we clear? No we're not.

PARTICIPANT: I've been struggling to find my way and I think my experience tells me that (...indistinct) I'm concerned and I want to stop this process for a moment, (...indistinct) I'm concerned about (...indistinct) And I remember (...indistinct) referred to the (...indistinct) of what's happening here in the (...indistinct) system. And then just clarify it for me, this is not the formal Truth Commission hearing with the objectives of finding all the culprits of (...indistinct)? (...indistinct) At times it did feel like that and I wonder will you be doing anything different (...indistinct) professional and have the information in supply (...indistinct) legal (...indistinct) what then are we (...indistinct) ? And what I want to say is maybe it's actually making it difficult to make specific recommendations and I'm not (...indistinct) and I realise that I would also like to (...indistinct) on a process level I'm reminded by words of (...indistinct) that the major part of the work is identifying myself that which I hate (...indistinct) And I'm concerned that we just splitting (...indistinct) and that everything's been split and there are (...indistinct) and it seems that if we from this perspective can make any, can make a real change it would be in the minds of all of us to (...indistinct) I just had to get that off my chest. I don't know what difference it's gonna make or where do we go with that.

MR GREY: That, my response to that is that I sit in an awful lot of commission workshops and meetings, they on reconciliation (...indistinct) and so forth and there is a sort of (...indistinct) micro process always going on within people. Do you know what I mean? People have been coming as professionals addressing these issue yet at the same time they're dealing, you know what I mean, with their own reconciliation. And it's always, it's always a split. I felt that in doing the workshop because there's a sort of task orientated nature yet there's this micro processes going on. And really over the time of the commission I've come to terms with that split. I don't think, I think it's a separate issue. I think we could have a separate workshop about where we're at as clinicians and with the process, you know with transformation and etc. I think it's a, I think we have to split it. It's a sort of false split. It's a sort of, it's a fallacy to imagine that we could disengage ourselves completely like that but I think for the work I'd invite us to put, I mean I don't think we've got time to naval gaze. I think we are anyway, I think we are anyway. I mean does anybody else have a contribution?

PARTICIPANT: (...indistinct) we are still trying (...indistinct) because (...indistinct) because anything (...indistinct) it's a process and then somehow there is going to be internal split (...indistinct) and of internal split. So what I think we have to look at the consequences of this collectivity before, so that we don't have to say in retrospect oh that we (...indistinct) what each want to do with our transformation activity because all of this is about (...indistinct) And obviously it has to be (...indistinct) if it has to be (...indistinct) and in that (...indistinct) some people have to move, have to (...indistinct) so that the rest shall (...indistinct) But let's take heed of what (...indistinct) because already I'm (...indistinct) so (...indistinct) That's how I went home yesterday. I said: "Wow" you know let it come out openly and also (...indistinct) psychologists are now wanting to create a human resource centre where they will be (...indistinct) So let us not go there because it's going to split. Let us look at the mental health care of everything and (...indistinct) psychological (...indistinct) how are we going to be changed? All of that (...indistinct) it's very relevant but let them be put in the relevancy. I know there was a (...indistinct) in Cape Town a steering committee which I have feeling it's giving me the same things Wendy, if I'm not wrong. That we are doing now. There (...indistinct) and somehow I brought that paper. I know (...indistinct)