Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-16

S G DU PREEZ: Chairperson, at that stage there were many such cases where people were charged and were freed on small technical points, so I realised that if Taylor said that he did not have enough evidence and that it was possible that this person could be released on technical points.

MR VISSER: On that point Mr du Preez, you in the Durban vicinity, did you also experience the effect of intimidation?

S G DU PREEZ: That is certainly so, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And you don't know, but what would the chances be that the person who was injured and who had been taken up in hospital, could be used as a witness against Mr Ninela?  What would you think in terms of the general background?

CHAIRPERSON: You know, I think that that's not a fair question.

MR VISSER: Perhaps it's a question for argument.

CHAIRPERSON: Because he doesn't even know the individual, unless he says he knows the individual and had a talk with him.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Yes, perhaps you're right, Mr Chairman, it may be too argumentative.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Visser, may I just enter here?  I don't know whether I lost the evidence somewhere.  Mr du Preez, you said that you experienced intimidation here as well.  To which intimidation do you refer?

S G DU PREEZ: I mean in general.  The witnesses or the people or persons who would give evidence in court for us, were murdered or they just disappeared.

ADV BOSMAN: Yes, that clears it up.  So in other words, what you're trying to tell us is that matters could not continue because witnesses were intimidated.

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Please continue Mr du Preez.

S G DU PREEZ: I had no personal knowledge with regard to Ninela's circumstances or his activities and I don't know where and when he was arrested?

MR VISSER: Can you please pause there for one moment?  Documentation became available which included copies of certain letters which the same Mr Ninela had written to the Minister of Law and Order during his detention in 1987.  You'll find that in bundle 2.   There are quite a number of them Mr Chairman, but perhaps I should just refer you to page 77.  What Mr Ninela says, Mr Ninela says on the 23rd January 1987 he was detained and then he was taken to CR Swart Square where he was severely assaulted and tortured by a group of white members of the Security Branch.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mr Visser, there's just a technical problem with the translation and the sound system, if you can just hold on a few minutes while he sorts it out.  Is it fixed up now Ian?  Let's try again.

MR VISSER: I will repeat.  Mr Ninela, in one of his letters to the Minister of Law and Order, wrote that on the 23rd of January 1987 he was arrested at his workplace, where he was employed by Shell Chemicals in Reunion and he was taken to CR Swart Square where he was severely assaulted and tortured by a group of white members of the Security Branch and that you were one of them, or he says a Mr du Preez was among them.  Can you shed any light on this?

S G DU PREEZ: Chairperson, after I had read these documents on Thursday and I recall that I was the person who arrested Mr Ninela at his workplace and had taken him to CR Swart.  I was not involved with his interrogation.

MR VISSER: Did you have any further dealings with him, except for his arrest?

S G DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Did you thereafter have any dealings with him ever, before now that we know that the day that you met with Mr Taylor?

S G DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, not that I can recall.

MR VISSER: Can you please tell the Committee, did you assault him or torture him that you can recall?

S G DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Very well, if we may then return to page 3, page 6 in the bundle.  When you say that you had no personal knowledge with regard to Mr Ninela's activities and circumstances, to what have you referred here?

S G DU PREEZ: To this arrest or these events where he was involved, where the person was blown up.

MR VISSER: And you say that you did not deal with him in the past except for this arrest?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Can you recall what he was arrested for?

S G DU PREEZ: From the statement which I have read, it seemed that it was activities, union activities.

MR VISSER: And in 1987, would that have been in terms of the state of emergency?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct.

ADV BOSMAN: Excuse me, may I just interpose here?  I would just like some clarity.  You have referred to statements which you have read.  Are these statements which you have read recently, or are you referring to statements which you read back then?

S G DU PREEZ: No, these are statements which I had read on Thursday, which the Evidence Leader had given to us from his family and about circumstances in which he was arrested.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you, you may continue.

MR VISSER: So the short of it all is you referred to the past Thursday, last week Thursday, the 12th, when you say these statements for the first time?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

S G DU PREEZ: I accepted that Mr Ninela was unlawfully detained and on the - Col Taylor told me and Wasserman to eliminate Ninela.  Col Taylor was senior to both Wasserman and I and we were obliged to carry out his instructions.  I was satisfied that the elimination of Ninela was in regard to combating the onslaught of MK on the RSA and I had no reason to doubt the information which Taylor gave to me.  During the discussion Taylor mentioned to us that Ninela was caught by the askaris while in possession of a limpet mine.  Wasserman and I took over Ninela along with the limpet mine and we drove to Bulwer.

MR VISSER: So he gives you Ninela and the limpet mine?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And he tells you this is the limpet mine which they found in Ninela's possession when he was abducted?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.
We got close to a place near a railway line, which I pointed out to the TRC.  We then took Ninela from the vehicle and took him to the railway line.

MR VISSER: Was Mr Taylor there?

S G DU PREEZ: No, Mr Taylor was not present at this event.

MR VISSER: You are aware that in bundle 1 from page 1 the amnesty application of Mr Taylor is embodied and on page 4,
Mr Taylor says that he accompanied you to the railway line in the vicinity of Bulwer, that is along with you and Wasserman.  What is your comment?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct, I read it as such but it was not the case and I am certain that Mr Taylor must have confused this with another event.

MR VISSER: Was there any other incident which also took place at a railway line in the vicinity and where other persons were killed?

S G DU PREEZ: There was a similar incident at a railway line, but not in that vicinity, that was in Durban.

MR VISSER: So this was at Verulam?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And you specifically referred to the incident which had been heard before the previous Amnesty Committee under the Chairmanship of Justice Wilson, the kwaMashu 3 incident, was heard?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And that included the person Sibusiso Ndlovo, Manzi Vilakazi and Elias Gift Mtjale, is that correct?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Was Col Taylor present at that event?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And was this also an instance where the remains of the persons were blown up?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Very well.  Please continue.

S G DU PREEZ: Mr Wasserman shot Ninela in the head with his 9mm service pistol and he died instantly.  I then placed Ninela's hands and head on the limpet mine and activated the limpet mine.

MR VISSER: Was this on the railway line, or close the  railway line, or where was it?