Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

MR NDOU: I now call upon number 2726, Abel Mulady.  His application appears from page 1, sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Page?

MR NDOU: 1 to 20.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mulady, what language would you like to use?

ABEL MULADY: I will use Venda.

ABEL MULADY: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Please proceed.

MR NDOU: Thank you Honourable Chairman.  Mr Mulady,  you brought an application for amnesty in respect of charges of murder, arson and public violence, in respect of whose murder was it?

ABEL MULADY: It is in connection with the deceased and what happened in the kraal of the deceased.

MR NDOU: And the arson charge, in respect of which incident?  Was it the incident on the 28th or around the 6th of April?

ABEL MULADY: It is in connection with the 6th of April.  Maybe I can also add that it is linked with the 28th of February.

MR NDOU: But for which incident were you convicted?

ABEL MULADY: I was convicted - in the part of the 28th of February, it was public violence and on the second part, on the 6th of April, I was convicted with murder and arson on the body of the deceased.

MR NDOU: Now, we have heard evidence that a Youth Congress was formed at Mahvunga, were you also part of this Youth Congress?

ABEL MULADY: In short, I can say that I don't know whether people were taking me as a member, but I was just a person who most of the time,  I was there where the Mahvunga Youth Congress was.  But that I was a member, I don't know.

MR NDOU: So you were not an office bearer?

ABEL MULADY: It could have happened, maybe in a particular meeting and then I tried to air my views and tried to give, to make things to be in order, but when people see you that can say that this person is a member, whereas one was not aware that one is a member.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you not an Executive of the Youth Congress?

ABEL MULADY: Let me say it this way, I was not a member of the Executive Committee of the Mahvunga Youth, but I used to attend all the meetings of the Youth Congress, most of them, I attended them.

MR NDOU: Now could you explain to the Committee ...

CHAIRPERSON: Is there another Abel Mulady?  Mr Ndou, wasn't one of the previous witness' evidence that Abel Mulady was a ...

MR NDOU: It was indeed so, that is what he said.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, he was one of the co-applicants?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: He was the only co-applicant?

MR NDOU: That is so.

CHAIRPERSON: That was a member of the Executive?

MR NDOU: That is what he indicated.

CHAIRPERSON: You say that is not true?

ABEL MULADY: I can repeat and say that personally on my own, I don't remember that I was a member of a Youth Congress of Mahvunga Youth Congress.

CHAIRPERSON: You must remember that, whether it was or was not the case.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, can we get some clarity here, maybe I took my notes, or I did not understand properly, but with the previous witness in my notes, he said the leader was Ntsundene Mulady, or did I get the name wrong?  He did not mention, I actually looked and I see this one is Abel so I thought it was another Mulady.

MR NDOU: Yes, he said Ntsundene.

ADV SIGODI: Yes, Ntsundene Mulady, so can we get some clarity as to whether this Mulady is the same one as the applicant here.

MR NDOU: Do you know somebody by the name of Ntsundene Mulady?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I know him.

MR NDOU: Is he also a resident of Mahvunga?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, he is residing at Mahvunga.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he also a co-applicant?

MR NDOU: Is he also a co-applicant?

ABEL MULADY: No, that I don't know.

MS PATEL: Honourable Chairperson, sorry, if I may come in here.

ABEL MULADY: He is not here, that is why I am saying I don't know whether he applied for amnesty.

MS PATEL: The previous witness was asked through you, you went through the list as to who he remembered as being part of the Exec and Abel Mulady was one of the people that he confirmed was one of those people.  He also mentioned Johannes Muratu and Andrew Mivan, it was at the stage when we mentioned that he wasn't an applicant.

ABEL MULADY: Muratu is referred to and (indistinct), it is Muratu who is here now.

MS PATEL: That was Mr Nemakhavani.

ADV SIGODI: Yes.

MS PATEL: That testified to that effect.

ADV SIGODI: Yes, but I have notes here and when he was, the previous witness was being cross-examined by Mr Van Rensburg, if we could clarify that.

MR NDOU: Okay.

ADV SIGODI: He mentioned the Treasurer to be Tangeni Pungu under cross-examination.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I am talking about ...

ADV SIGODI: The Executive, the Chairman of the Youth League?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nemakhavani, he said, he was asked is there any of the applicants who were members of the Executive and he said yes, himself and Abel Mulady.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Chairman, I think he also said after we sorted out that he mentioned some names of the persons who are not applicants, he also added Sioma which was a marshal?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VAN RENSBURG: You have the situation right, Abel was not the only other one of the applicants who was pointed out, it was also Sioma.

CHAIRPERSON: No, he retracted Sioma, he said he was a marshal, not an Executive member.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Okay, I understand, I apologise.

CHAIRPERSON: You asked the question who of the co-applicants were Executive members?

MR VAN RENSBURG: That is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Then he said himself and Mulady.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Abel, yes, yes.  And that is the situation.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but that is the position.  Any way, you carry on.

MR NDOU: Okay, now you say you never held any office in this Mahvunga Youth Congress?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, that I don't know.  I don't know even in the books of Mahvunga Youth Congress, so if (indistinct), I will be found as one of them.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou, will you find out from that other applicant of yours, who he was talking about now?

MR NDOU: Yes, he did mention the name of Abel, but he wanted to articulate that he was one of the marshals, not an actual office bearer.

CHAIRPERSON: But he did mention Abel Mulady?

MR NDOU: That is so Chairperson.  I want you to explain to the Committee as to what you did on the 28th of February 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: That public violence was in respect of the deceased's house?

MR NDOU: That is so.  Can you remember as to what you did on the 28th of February at the deceased's house?

ABEL MULADY: Yes.  I still remember.

MR NDOU: What did you do?

ABEL MULADY: On the 28th, I was one of the people who held Peter who was the member of the family, Peter Mahvunga and then I assaulted him, and then I was one of the people who talked to Boshoff and Eric "where is your father?"

MR NDOU: Is that all that you did?

ABEL MULADY: That is all I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you part of a group of people?

MR NDOU: You were part of a group of people who had gone to the deceased's kraal, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Behaving in a violent manner?

ABEL MULADY: Yes.

MR NDOU: I see, and then you also proceeded to the deceased's house on the 6th of April, is that right?

INTERPRETER: Could you please repeat the dates.

MR NDOU: Did you also proceed to the deceased's house on the 6th of April with a group of other people?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I did.

MR NDOU: What part did you play at the deceased's house on that day?

ABEL MULADY: I was one of the people who threw stones to the deceased, I was part of the people who took the petrol which was inside the house in one of the rooms and take it and pour it on the tyre and that tyre, I lit it and then I took it and put it over the body of the deceased, while he was laying on the ground.

CHAIRPERSON: You say you went into a room in the house, you took a tyre, did you find a tyre in the room?

ABEL MULADY: I found the petrol, a find a 25 litre or a 20 litre, I am not clear then, but it was a petrol container inside the house.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?  What did you do with that petrol?