Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-07

VERNON VOSLOO: No, I doubt it because any rational person would certainly have found other ways of resisting.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Vosloo, if that was the position as you have testified now, then according to your own version you are saying that the alcohol which you've consumed, was the cause of the deed you committed and not any political motive which you wish to achieve.

VERNON VOSLOO: Sir, that is perhaps a wrong way to put it.  The liquor perhaps gave me the false courage to act in accordance with that which I felt so strongly.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Vosloo, what did you hope to achieve by killing a person who was walking passed you and what political objective did you have in mind and what were you hoping to achieve politically?

VERNON VOSLOO: I didn't just want to sit still and allow myself to be taken over and ruled by an opposition party.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So by killing a person, this particular person, who was walking past where you and your friends were drinking, you were hoping to resist the take over, is that what you want to convey to us?

VERNON VOSLOO: The general talking that was going on at that stage, was that everybody felt that manner and in that way and I felt that I had to do my little bit and that I wouldn't be taken over without any resistance.

JUDGE WILSON: Are you seriously suggesting that everybody felt that they must kill any Black person they saw?

VERNON VOSLOO: If that was your conviction and you found yourself in that position that you had to resist in some way or another, then you will act in the manner that you thought fit and at that stage I thought that was what I had to do.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr  Vosloo, were you ...

ADV MALAN: Excuse me, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I would just like the Committee to confirm that the applicant fully understands the English language.  He has been told about the facilities, translation facility, if he is comfortable.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Vosloo, would you like to use your headphones for ease of translation to Afrikaans, the language which I am sure you will feel more comfortable
with.

JUDGE WILSON: Has his earphones ... (tape ends)

ADV MALAN: I am told that the adjustments had been made.

SISI KHAMPEPE: To just make a follow up to a short question which I wanted to put to you Mr Vosloo, were you aware at the time of the commission of this offence, that negotiations were taking place at Kempton Park during the Nationalist Party led government and other role players, which included various political organisations and liberation movements, were you aware of those negotiations taking place?

VERNON VOSLOO: Yes, I was aware of those.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, I would presume that the take over that you were so scared of and that you wanted to resist, was as a result of the negotiations which was taking place at Kempton Park.  Would I be correct in my assumption?

VERNON VOSLOO: Excuse me, could you just repeat?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were you scared of the take over from the Nationalist Party led government by the Black people which you regarded as a threat because of the negotiations that were taking place at Kempton Park?

VERNON VOSLOO: Yes, I was afraid of that.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, in that context then Mr Vosloo, did you not regard the Nationalist Party as a threat because they had initiated those negotiations?

VERNON VOSLOO: Perhaps to a certain extent, yes, because by doing so they would have me ruled by a party of a different colour.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So you therefore regarded the Nationalist Party as having sold out on the ideals of the Afrikaner people and they therefore were the correct political target
for you to have directed any of your attempts at resisting such a take over.  Why did you not launch any attack against the establishment or anything that would have been associated with the Nationalist Party and why did you decide on an innocent person whom you knew very little of?

VERNON VOSLOO: At the time of the crime, I did not really regard the National Party as my opposition.  That which I regarded as my opposition, what I saw was that Black people would be governing the country, and that was what I was afraid of.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You can continue sir.  I am sorry to have interrupted you.

ADV MALAN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Vosloo, if it had been a White person who walked passed you on that evening, would you have acted in the same way or not?

VERNON VOSLOO: If a White man walked passed me, he would just have walked passed.  I did not see the White man as a threat.

ADV MALAN: Did you consider this threat only to come from Black people or all the people in the country other than White people?

VERNON VOSLOO: The vast majority who wanted to take over the country, were Black.  Therefore, in general I saw the threat at being Black people, as well as at the same time, other people of other colours.  There are coloured people who might look Black, but generally other race groups presumably than White, I would have seen as my opposition.

ADV MALAN: You have completed an application for amnesty and you have a copy of this application, is that correct?

VERNON VOSLOO: That is correct.

ADV MALAN: You would stand by the submissions or the
statements made in the application, is that correct?

VERNON VOSLOO: That is correct.

ADV MALAN: You also refer to it that you consider yourself to be a supporter of the AWB, the Afrikaner Resistance Movement or Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging, is that correct?

VERNON VOSLOO: That is correct.

ADV MALAN: Can you remember what the threats of the AWB had been at that time?  What would they have done if there was a take over or if the negotiations continued?

VERNON VOSLOO: The talk was that people had to take up arms.  That is the single message that remained in my mind, that people had to take up arms to protect themselves against the rule of others.

ADV MALAN: Did you at any time consider the taking up of arms as a full scale race war between Whites and Blacks or a war between the army and Blacks, or how did you consider this for yourself, what was your view of this?

VERNON VOSLOO: I would have said "yes".  The Afrikaner people felt threatened and the message which was given to the people, was that people had to take up arms and defend themselves and that is what I did.

ADV MALAN: How did your action link with this view?

VERNON VOSLOO: Although I was not directly a member of the AWB, I was a serious supporter of their movement.  It was my feeling that I am an Afrikaner similar to them and that I had to act in this manner, in the manner expected of an Afrikaner.

ADV MALAN: The question whether you considered the National Party as your enemy, did you consider the National Party to be acting voluntarily in the hand over of power?

VERNON VOSLOO: Please repeat that?

ADV MALAN: How did you experience this, did the National Party act voluntarily out of their own choice by handing over power, or how did you feel?

VERNON VOSLOO: The political changes I think, forced them in that direction.  They had no real choice whether they wanted to or not, they had to negotiate.

ADV MALAN: Did you ever consider joining one of the action groups such as the AWB, I've heard the term "storm troops", did you consider joining one of these action groups at any time?

VERNON VOSLOO: I am a solitary person, I see things very individualistically.  I understand things in my own view and I act in those terms.  If things continued in that direction and if I was forced to join such a action group, I might have, but I would still have preferred to act on my own and do things in my own way.

ADV MALAN: Did you agree with their goals in all senses or in - with the views of their leadership?

VERNON VOSLOO: No, not always.  The basic principle that we had to act against the people who wanted to take over, with this I agreed.  That we had to resist such a take over, with that I agreed.