Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

MRS GCABASHE:  Was Thamsanqwa affiliated with any political organisation?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was with the ANC.

MRS GCABASHE:  This area where he was staying at Mthetwa's area ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   Ja, that area it's just an area which I didn't know about it because I never even went there. What about the post mortem?  Was it done?   ---   He went to hospital.  I don't know.  If the post mortem was done, I don't have the results.  I don't know anything.  He went to Ngwelezana Hospital.

MRS GCABASHE:  In other words, you're telling us that this thing happened and then he was taken to hospital and they didn't tell you?

WITNESS:   No, they told us.

MRS GCABASHE:  Did you hear that he was in hospital?

WITNESS:   Yes, we heard.

MRS GCABASHE:  Do you have the records from Ngwelezana Hospital?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.  Maybe my grandfather or my grandmother has those documents.  What I have is the death certificate.

MRS GCABASHE:  What's written on the death certificate?

WITNESS:   What's written there is he's dead and that's all.

MRS GCABASHE:  Did you report this matter to the police?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.

MRS GCABASHE:  But the police didn't come to your house?

WITNESS:   No, they never came to my house.  I don't know.  Maybe they went to the place where he died not at our house.

MRS GCABASHE:  Was there any case or were you called to come to the court?

WITNESS:   No, nothing happened.

MRS GCABASHE:  Up until today there are no suspicions or nothing happened?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.  We never heard anything up until today.  What happened, he died and we buried him and that was the end of the story.

MRS GCABASHE:  You said Thamsanqwa was your grandfather's child.  No one did anything?

WITNESS:   No, because my grandfather died as well, so no one did anything.  It's just me.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now that you're here and you're telling us the story, do you know how it affected them?

WITNESS:   It  really affected them, especially my grandfather.  Even my grandmother, I think - I suspect she's not well mentally.

MRS GCABASHE:  What about grandfather?

WITNESS:   Grandfather got sick and then he died.  I don't know what he was suffering from because he was complaining about everything.

MRS GCABASHE:  What about grandmother, is she getting any medical assistance or medication?

WITNESS:   She does go to clinic at Dlemdlenu(?) Clinic.  Dlemdlenu is the name of the clinic.  It's there at Sokhulu area near the school.

MRS GCABASHE:  You also mention that you suspect that your grandmother is not mentally okay or well.  Does she see doctors?

WITNESS:   Ja, she has tablets.  She's getting medication.

MRS GCABASHE:  And is your grandmother receiving any pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, she does.

MRS GCABASHE:  Thamsanqwa had any children before he died?

WITNESS:  No, he didn't.

MRS GCABASHE:  In other words, no one was seen doing this and no one is being accused or alleged to have done this?

WITNESS:  Yes, that's true.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now that you came to the Truth Commission do you have any request or wish that you would like to ask the Commission to do for you, because in your statement it's written that you want us as the Commission to decide what to do but you are the one who was staying with the grandmother.

WITNESS:   I think you should see what you can do.

MRS GCABASHE:  What about you?  You don't have any suggestion or any wish?

WITNESS:   My grandmother is really old. You don't even wish to know who killed Thamsanqwa?  ---   We really want to know who killed Thamsanqwa.  We would like the Commission to investigate that.  We would like the Commission to go to Mthembu's area and try and investigate.

MRS GCABASHE: Thanks very much, Viera(?), for putting yourself into this trouble to try and find out, to do this for grandmother.  I'll hand over to the Chairperson.

MR LYSTER: I also thank you very much for coming in today, Viera, telling us your story and to commend you on being so brave to come here and represent your family in this attempt, this quest, that you making to find out who killed your uncle.  We hope that we will be able to do something constructive in that regard.  We hope that we will be able to find some clues and we will certainly pass those on to you.  So thank you very much again for telling us your story.  You have come from KwaSokhulu and you have sat here and you've heard many, many other stories from Sokhulu today.  We know it was a very bad area, a very dangerous area, and we hope not only to solve the case of your uncle but many of the other cases which we have heard today in order to help some of the people come to terms with the loss that they have suffered.  Thank you very much.
/MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: Quiet please.  We'll start with the next witness now.  Thank you.  Good afternoon, Mr Makhoba.  Thank you for coming in.  You've come from Ulundi to speak to us today and this relates to the burning of your house and the assault on members of your family.  Before you tell your story can you please stand to take the oath.

BONGINKOSI GABRIEL MAKHOBA: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

MR LYSTER: Thank you very much.  Dr Mgojo will assist you now.

KHOZA MGOJO: Good day, Mr Makhoba.  After we heard the speaker who just left the stage now, we will try and talk to you.  It's really difficult now.  It would have been much nicer if we'd heard Mary afterwards - after all the witnesses but anyway we'll still try and do it now.  I would like you to give me a picture of your family.  You tell us you are Bonginkosi Gabriel Makhoba.  Do you have a mother or father?  How many brothers and sisters you have, all about that?

WITNESS:   I do have a mother.  My father is late.  He died in 1993.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Was he sick?

WITNESS:   I think what affected my father was the burning of our house and he was diabetic and then he died.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about your brothers and sisters?

WITNESS:   They're still alive.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How many brothers and sisters do you have?

WITNESS:   From my mother we are six.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you have two mothers?

WITNESS:   My father was married to two women, my mother and another one.  From  my mother we are six.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How old are you?  How many boys?

WITNESS:   Three boys.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How many girls?

WITNESS:   Three girls.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is there anyone who's still at school?

WITNESS:   No, we aren't.  We are now finished.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are there any ones who are married?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How many?

WITNESS:   All boys aren't married and two of my sisters are married.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where is the one who's not married?

WITNESS:   She's at home.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is she working?

WITNESS:   No, she's not working.  Oh, no, I made a mistake.  The one who's not married who's at home, she's working.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Does she have a child?

WITNESS:   No, she doesn't.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, I want you to paint a picture of your family, if your family belonged to a political organisation, a certain political organisation or not.

WITNESS:   We didn't belong to any political organisation.

KHOZA MGOJO:  All of you, all members of your family?

WITNESS:   Yes, all of us except for my brother who's in Johannesburg.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What's your brother's name?

WITNESS:   Mandla Makhoba.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What political organisation is he affiliated with?

WITNESS:   ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO:    Where were you staying at?

WITNESS:   We were at a rural area.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Do you have political parties there?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't have.  We didn't have Inkatha or ANC.  Even if they were there but it wasn't active.  There was never any activity that will show that there were political  organisations or members in that area.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How big was your house?  How was your house built?