Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-05-02

MS MKHIZE: Philip I just want let you rest a little.  Can you rest a while, you have indicated these horrifying stories to us.  You look very young but you have been through hard times, I want to ask you a few questions and thereafter relax and give us an answer.
 What I didn't quite understand well, you said you were four and then people from exile arrived and they said they wanted to train you.  You didn't tell us how old you were, were you at school?  Were you not working, were you belonging to any organisation besides COSAS?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: During that time I was a student at Lawani Mohlape, I was together with Paul doing standard seven.  These people arrived while I was in COSAS, Congress of South African Students.

MS MKHIZE: Don't you remember how old you were?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I was 20 years old.

MS MKHIZE: Can I go back and ask you a question about what you have said to us?  They first took you and they said they want to train you, can you give us an explanation, when they took you for training, what happened when they were training you?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: They told us that they were going to train us. On our arrival we didn't think anything.  They said they were just going to train us and they gave me and Gadaffi and Lekatsa the hand grenades, they said we are brave, we have to go and throw those grenades to show others how a hand grenade is thrown and they explained that you should throw it and lie on the floor and that we should go and hit targets on the following day.

MS MKHIZE: When they sent you to hit the targets, can you explain to us how many were you when you went out to hit the targets?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I can say in Duduza there were 10 and in Tsakane there were six.  In Kwa Thema we were only two but I was shocked to see that in the main power there was a first explosion of the grenade, that really surprised us.

MS MKHIZE: Maybe the Commission might be helped in some way to hear exactly what you referred to, when they said targets, what do you think, did they have people in mind?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: They were referring to power stations, houses belonging to policemen and councillors.

CHAIRPERSON: Any more questions, other questions?

MR MALAN: Mr Lukhele, you indicated that you were eventually convicted on one charge.  Can you tell us what that charge was?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: Public violence.

MR MALAN: And this was that you were accused of?  They must have given you the circumstances of that charge? Was that related to the hand grenades or what was it?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: They were charging me on burning a person at Kwa Thema.

CHAIRPERSON: If I can help you Philip, this Commission is trying to give you the opportunity to explain to the Commissioner about how that thing happened. If you could explain a little bit more on this charge about this person who was burned as trained people, how involved were you and if you were not involved you should also explain that.

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I was actually charged with many cases, but the last one took me to prison which is burning a person.  They said we burned a person to death. We were three, I was the first accused, the second accused was Pedi Nhlapo, the third one was Jabulani Sibanyoni and they got four years suspended and they were in for six years.

RUSSELL ALLY: You explained that it was your friend who was going to throw the hand grenade first and when he pulled the pin the hand grenade exploded and he was blown up.  Can you tell us about your particular injuries, what happened to you?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I don't know what happened, I was hit by lots of stones, I don't know if it was the hand grenade or whether I was hit by it, I really don't understand Sir.

RUSSELL ALLY: But there was permanent damage to you from what you say in your statement, can you explain that to us, the injuries that you actually sustained?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: When the grenade exploded there was shaking, I didn't think, I was at that stage very confused. ...(indistinct) on the left hand side

RUSSELL ALLY: And the people who allegedly gave you these booby-trapped hand grenades, where are they now do you know, do you have any idea?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: No I don't know.  As far as I hear is that one of them has been arrested, but I don't know.

DR RANDERA: Philip I want to ask two questions.  My first question is related to the actual throwing of grenades because one of the areas we're entrusted with is to develop a full picture, are you with me, of what happened?  Now you said that the grenades were thrown at councillors' homes and at police stations but within these homes and police stations there were people. Can you explain to us where these decisions were made, was it just a discussion that took place amongst you as comrades, or did that come from somewhere else?  Were you following orders?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: We were following the orders that were given to us.  These people came with a paper and told us where to go, some of the addresses were written for us, we were told who to go and attack.

DR RANDERA: Philip my second question is related to reparation, what would you like the Commission to do for you?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I would like the Commission, I cannot take the decision, I would like the Commission to take the decision on how to help me, what to do for me.

MR MALAN: Mr Lukhele may I take you again to your hand grenade that was taken to Priscilla Jana, was that ever further investigated, the innuendo is that the grenades were boob-trapped, I guess that's the evidence?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I do not know anything, we just left it at Priscilla Jana, we just left a statement, I made a statement, I was with Paul, I don't know if there was any investigation thereafter, I really don't know what happened thereafter.

DR RANDERA: Philip I just want to go back to the beginning of your statement again, you talked about Congress Motsweni, did you ever come into contact with Congress Motsweni again?
Do you know who he is?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: I have never seen him up until today.

MS SEROKE: This person they said you'd burned, was this person involved with hand grenade, this person they said you had burned?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: No there was a complaint that this person was an informer of the policeman, among those policemen who came to my home, those who arrested me.

MS SEROKE: So this person was an informer, where did you meet this person?

PHILIP JABULANI LUKHELE: We met her on the field at the place called Masimini School.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Philip.  God bless you.