Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-26

CHAIRPERSON: Who is your next witness?

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, the next applicant is Petrus Mdiniso.

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the tea adjournment and return at a quarter to twelve.

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, may I please make an announcement?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: What language are you going to speak?  Please give us your full names.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not activated.

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may be seated.  Yes, Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Mr Mdiniso, I want to show your signature on page 195, that's the signature that appears on the Form 1: Amnesty Application.  Is that your signature?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: This document has been canvassed with you and translated to you, do you confirm the contents?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Now what you state in this document is that you were not part of the attack on Boipatong and you only heard about the attack after the attack, is that correct?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: And you maintain that you were incorrectly found guilty at the trial of this matter?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Now there's an annexure to your application stating the political objective of the attack, do you say that this is not applicable to your application?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You furthermore gave certain answers after a request for further particulars was shown to you, do you confirm the correctness of the answers as they appear on page 198 and 199?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Will you please repeat the question?

MR STRYDOM: During consultations certain questions were put to you and you gave certain answers and these answers were translated to you, do you confirm the answers as they were translated to you?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: You also signed an affidavit, and your signature appears on page 201, is that your signature?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Do you admit the contents of this affidavit as it has been translated to you?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, I agree, though someone was translating to me.  Perhaps there are mistakes, there could be some mistakes because someone was translating for me.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, it's short affidavit so I'll just translate it to you now and you can just confirm the contents
"During June 1992 I was staying at Kwamadala hostel."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes.
MR STRYDOM
"I moved in during 1990."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.
MR STRYDOM
"This was after all Zulus were chased out of other hostels and townships."

INTERPRETER: Can the speaker please repeat the last statement?
MR STRYDOM
"That was after all Zulus were chased out of other hostels and townships."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"Supporters of the IFP were killed by ANC supporters."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"It was not out of my own free will that I moved to Kwamadala."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I was forced to do so for my own safety."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"On the 17th of June 1992, it was my day off."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I stayed here at the hostel."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I did not know anything about an attack which took place, which would have taken place."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I went to go and sleep at approximately 8 o'clock pm."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: That is correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I stay in a room very far from the stadium.  I didn't hear the alarm or anything of that nature.  The next day at work, I heard on the radio about the attack."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I know many people in Boipatong and also stayed there some time ago."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: I did not get the last statement.
MR STRYDOM
"I know many people in Boipatong and stayed there some time ago."

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.
MR STRYDOM
"I feel very sorry for those who died and who were injured.  I was falsely implicated at the trial and was also wrongly convicted.  I nevertheless ask for amnesty but that does not mean that I did anything wrong."
Is that the affidavit?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Correct.

MR STRYDOM: The process of amnesty has been explained to you, is that correct?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: The process of amnesty, I did not have any idea as far as this is concerned, but I heard when Buthelezi and Mthembu were being questioned.  I did not have any idea.  I only got the idea when I was listening as they were questioned.  I came here to clear my name in front of the people of Boipatong and to mention that I was falsely implicated.  I was convicted, falsely convicted by the Judge.  I knew very well that my hands are clean.  I know nothing about the Boipatong incident.

ADV SIGODI: Could you speak slowly so that we can get the interpretation clearly because if you speak fast we can't get it.

MR STRYDOM: You were asked if you want to withdraw your application, you said no, you want to carry on with the application, why?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: My reasons are as follows:  I am prepared to tell the people of Boipatong that I am innocent, I know nothing about the attack.  That is the reason why I came here, because I know this place as a place to tell the truth.  I wanted to come here and tell the people that I know nothing about the Boipatong incident.  I as sick on that particular day, I had flu.  I was not feeling well, and that is why I had to go to bed as early as 8 o'clock.

MR STRYDOM: I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

MS PRETORIUS: No questions, thank you, Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS PRETORIUS

MR DA SILVA: I have no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

MS TANZER: Are you aware of the existence of Andries Nosenga?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: I don't even know him, I only hear about him here for the first time.

MS TANZER: So you don't know whether he was staying at the hostel or not?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: I won't even mention anything about him.  I don't even know what to say about him because I don't even know him.

MS TANZER: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: Chairperson, just one question.

CHAIRPERSON: I beg your pardon, do you want Mr Berger to start?

MR MALINDI: I would be ...(indistinct) to say it that way, Mr Chairperson.

MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Mr Mdiniso, if I understand you correctly, you did not attend any meeting prior to the 17th of June 1992 at which there was talk about an attack, am I right?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.  The only meeting that I attended is only one where there was a complaint when a car was burnt down.  A gentleman by the name of ...(indistinct) Sibiya and the other one whose surname was Zulu, they were together.  Their car was burnt down at Sondela.  I heard the complaints from the people and previously people had died and people were complaining because they were dying.  That was the only meeting that I attended.

MR BERGER: The only question is, at no meeting at which you attended was there ever any talk about an attack on anyone, am I right?

THULANI PETROL MDINISO: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: I just want to ask you one question or I want to concentrate just on one sentence in your affidavit at page 201 where you say
"I know many people in Boipatong."
At the time of the attack, did you know many people in Boipatong?