Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-17

ADV PRIOR: The questions that I put to your colleagues, you heard it?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: Have you got any comment or can you maybe assist us in that regard?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: Is it possible that you at one stage in April 1987 rather than Nxiweni, abducted the wrong person?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Why do you say that?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Because I did not pick a man up before that.

MR MALAN: No, I do not think that they refer to you, they refer to the unit?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, I do not know about a person that was picked up.

MR MALAN: The question was is it a possibility?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I do not think that it is possible, that a person would be wrongly abducted.

MR MALAN: Did you have any knowledge of Bhila's abduction and elimination?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, I did not.

MR MALAN: Why is it not possible that you would not have any knowledge of that attempt to eliminate Nxiweni?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I have not heard anything like that.

MR MALAN: But you haven't heard about Bhila?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Is it possible that there was such an attempt?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, it is possible.

MR MALAN: Is it possible that the wrong person was picked up?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It is possible.

ADV PRIOR: During the Ramlakan hearing and also the investigation thereof, mention was made of a Taylor unit, the Allan Taylor unit, is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: During Ramlakan?

ADV PRIOR: Yes, Nxiweni had ties with that unit, is that correct?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is.

ADV PRIOR: Can you remember who else were members of that unit, that is now during the Ramlakan hearing?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I remember that there was a person named Chichanzi and I cannot remember the other person.

ADV PRIOR: Was there another person?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, there was.

ADV PRIOR: Do you agree that that unit broke away after the arrests, or disbanded completely, they did not exist, because of the Ramlakan charges?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

ADV PRIOR: And that was also the information that you had?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, that is correct.

ADV PRIOR: The whole organisation was infiltrated to such an manner as we heard and that the information received, was of good quality?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, it was.

ADV PRIOR: In 1988, what was the information that you had concerning the Allan Taylor unit?  Did it still exist?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: At that stage Nxiweni, there were two other members with him.

ADV PRIOR: Who were they?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I tried to remember their names.  I did know their names Mr Chairperson, but I cannot remember at this stage.

ADV PRIOR: They were not your informants?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.

ADV PRIOR: What happened to them according to the information that you have?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: The two people were taken back by bus to the Transkei after Pumeso's elimination.

ADV PRIOR: Just a moment Mr Chairperson.  Mr Chairman, may I place something on record, to correct a statement of fact that was put to, I think, Colonel Botha.  I don't have any more questions of this witness.
	If the Committee will recall Exhibit H was tendered and I had indicated that these were notes made or preparatory notes made in the course of an investigation.  A lot of the information had not been corroborated. 
	It was then put to Mr Botha and some of the others that Pila Portia Ndwandwe had remained in attendance at the Ramlakan trial, which conflicted with the applicants' version, that she had left the country in 1986.  I have subsequently been able to confirm that in fact, she left the Republic in October of 1986, which means that she was not present at the Ramlakan trial, as was suggested to the witness.
	I thought it necessary to place that on record Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR

MR VISSER: Yes, I thank my learned friend Mr Chairman, not that I believe that there was really a big point turning around it, but we thank him for his honesty.
	Mr Chairman, I have one question this time by way of exception, in re-examination.  I might deal with it immediately, unless the Committee has questions to this witness, in which event, we will stand down till tomorrow.
	Well, then may I deal with the one question Mr Chairman.  Mr Du Preez, one easily thinks that if one arrests someone, take him to court and he is charged or put into jail for a period of time, that he would have no influence in the community, is that true?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Why do you say that is not true?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I think if we can just look at the ANC leaders at Robben Island and the influence they had on the organisation.

MR VISSER: In your experience, is it that messages were sent in and out of jail?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: And that instructions were given from out of jail?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes.

MR VISSER: Not just in our country, but all across the world?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Yes, it is the general experience.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.
It is quarter past three Mr Chairman, I hope your dentist is going to be waiting for you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: No, my turn is half past.

MR VISSER: Oh, I thought 3 o'clock.

CHAIRPERSON: No, half past.  Do you want to start another witness, or do you want to finish early?

MR VISSER: We can start another witness, yes Mr Chairman.

ADV PRIOR: May I suggest that we take the adjournment now, we have one last witness, Mr Chairman.  By all accounts, we should be finished with the evidence tomorrow as a whole, so we are ahead of schedule.  If we call a witness now, he is going to stand over, we are not going to finish any of the cross-examination.

MR VISSER: Yes Mr Chairman, I would go along with that.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS