Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — 1997-11-25

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Maybe we should just find out whether there are other people.  Yes?

MR KADES: Mr Chairman, Norman Kades on behalf of the Asvat family.  Mr Mekgwe, you appeared to suggest earlier in your evidence that apart from being seen by the Doctor to whom you were taken by Paul Verryn, that you had also been seen by another Doctor prior to seeing that Doctor and after your assault, is that so?

PELO MEKGWE: No, it is not the truth.

MR KADES: Were you only seen by one Doctor on one occasion after you had been assaulted on the night of the 29th?

PELO MEKGWE: By one Doctor only, you are correct.

MR KADES: By one Doctor only?  Now, did you know either Tulani Dlamini or (indistinct) Mbatha prior to the murder of Dr Asvat?

PELO MEKGWE: I don't' know anything concerning that.

MR KADES: Did you not know either of them?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

MR KADES: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

MR TRENGOVE: May it please you Chair, my name is Wim Trengove, I act for Bishop Verryn.
 Mr Mekgwe, how old are you?

PELO MEKGWE: I am now 30 years old.

MR TRENGOVE: It means that at the end of 1988 you were 21?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct.

MR TRENGOVE: Mr Mono Thabiso, do you know how old he was at the time?

PELO MEKGWE: I am not sure.

MR TRENGOVE: I am told that he was of about your age?

PELO MEKGWE: Maybe you are right, I am not sure.

MR TRENGOVE: As far as you know, he was of about your age?  He wasn't significantly older or younger?

PELO MEKGWE: I cannot say.

MR TRENGOVE: Mr Kenny Kgase?

PELO MEKGWE: He was older than I.

MR TRENGOVE: He was 29 at the time?

PELO MEKGWE: I think so.

MR TRENGOVE: Mr Katiza Cebekhulu was of about your age?

PELO MEKGWE: I am not sure.

MR TRENGOVE: Stompie Sepei, we know was a teenager?

PELO MEKGWE: Exactly, you are correct.

MR TRENGOVE: Apart from Stompie Sepei, the rest of you who were taken to the manse, were grown men.

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat your question?

MR TRENGOVE: Apart from Stompie Sepei, the rest of you who were taken from the manse to Mrs Mandela's home, were grown men?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct, yes.

MR TRENGOVE: You were not tender youths in need of her protection?

PELO MEKGWE: Sorry?

MR TRENGOVE: You were not tender youths in need of her protection?

PELO MEKGWE: Whom are you referring to?

MR TRENGOVE: The four of you who were taken from the manse to Mrs Mandela's home.  Correct?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.  Can you repeat it, I don't understand you correctly?

MR TRENGOVE: Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's counsel referred to the five of you as boys.  Was that a correct description?

PELO MEKGWE: It was said at that time.

MR TRENGOVE: You were grown men.  Stompie was the only boy amongst you?

PELO MEKGWE: You are right.

MR TRENGOVE: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I don't know, let me maybe as my colleagues here.  Dumisa?

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you Chair.  Mr Mekgwe, I am trying to find where we should begin to establish when are you speaking the truth and when are you not speaking the truth.
 I would like you to confirm if I have understood the various statements that you have made.  Now in your trial, as I understand it, you said that Mrs Madikizela-Mandela assaulted you in several ways including sjamboking.
 Do you confirm that?

PELO MEKGWE: I say it yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: And in your typed statement to the Commission, you stated that you are not sure if Mrs Mandela was part of the assault, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: I said it yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: And in your handwritten statement you say she was part of the assault.  Is that correct?  In the handwritten statement that was shown to you by Mr Semenya.

PELO MEKGWE: That is not my writing that one, I was only requested to sign it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, in that handwritten statement is it correct that there the suggestion is clear that you were saying she was part of the assault.

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, I've said it.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, no, I know what you've said, I just want you to confirm the steps.

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct, yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Yes, and in your evidence in chief today you say you were assaulted by Mrs Mandela, but it was only with an open hand.

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct.

MR NTSEBEZA: And under cross-examination from Mr Semenya you have suggested that the discrepancies in your statements are as a consequence of a TRC investigator virtually suborning you to commit perjury, in other words telling you a disadvantage or disadvantages of you not being consistent in your statements?  Did I get you correctly?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct, yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now can you assist me in understanding in all of this where I should be able to accept what is the truth about all of these things you have said?

PELO MEKGWE: The truth is the statement that I am now giving here.  As I said because I have said at the beginning that the time I was doing the statement of the TRC, I was told that if my statement is not similar with the statement I have given in the court before, in the court of Richardson, I can be imprisoned for that case.

MR NTSEBEZA: Are you saying we must ignore all these other inconsistencies and believe you only today even when something you say in your evidence in chief, does not tally with what you say under cross-examination.  Is that what you are asking us to do?

PELO MEKGWE: I am requesting you to do that because I am now saying it openly and with a fairness inside.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Alex?

DR BORAINE: Just a follow up because I am as confused as my colleague is.  Let me ask you just a very simple, straight forward question.  As you sit there today, appearing before this Commission publicly, was Mrs Mandela part of the assault or wasn't she?

PELO MEKGWE: She was part of the assault.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Mekgwe, the statement that you made to our investigators, is in fact consistent with what you have told us now?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: So are you still then suggesting that there was influence brought to bear upon you to tell an untruth?

PELO MEKGWE: Can you repeat that statement?

YASMINE SOOKA: You have now said to the Commission that Mrs Mandela was part of the assault, you have indicated that you were told by our investigator that your story should be consistent with what you said at court, but you are not denying that Mrs Mandela was part of the assault?

PELO MEKGWE: The question is that was Mrs Mandela part of the assault?

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes?

PELO MEKGWE: It was not said that what part she played in the assault, of which I said in the beginning that she beat us with open hands.

YASMINE SOOKA: So she was part of the assault?

PELO MEKGWE: Yes, that is why I said it.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I can't say I am quite sure now what - are you able to make your client tell us in fact what is the thing that we have to believe.

MR VALLY: I will try my best Mr Chairman.  Mr Mekgwe, you said that the statement you gave to the TRC was, you were pressured to make that statement, is that correct?

PELO MEKGWE: You are correct yes.

MR VALLY: Okay, when you gave evidence in the Jerry Richardson trial, were you under pressure to make any statements at that stage?

PELO MEKGWE: By then I was under the protection of the police and also as I said at the beginning, that I was not willing to give that evidence.

MR VALLY: But were you under any pressure to make or give evidence at the trial?

PELO MEKGWE: I was not under pressure.