Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

CHAIRPERSON: Joseph Cochran please.  Joseph Cochran, we welcome you.  Thank you.  We welcome you.

JOSEPH COCHRAN: Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: We will hand over to Reverend Xundu who will ask you to take the oath.

JOSEPH COCHRAN: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We will give over to June Crichton who will ask some questions to you Mr Cochran on the statement that you have already made to the Commission.

JUNE CRICHTON: Good morning Mr Cochran.

JOSEPH COCHRAN: Morning.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you for coming again for the second time.  Mr Cochran, you are here today to talk about yourself and about an incident that happened on the 16th of December in 1989.  This was to do, apparently, with the launching of the Buffalo Flats Youth Congress.  Is that correct?

JOSEPH COCHRAN: It is correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: Would you then tell us exactly what happened on that day specifically and then we will start the questioning as to what happened after that.

JOSEPH COCHRAN: Thank you.  The previous night I was one of four Youth Congress members selected as Chief Marshals to co-ordinate the security arrangements for the following day.  We me briefly the following night to plan the security arrangements.  On our arrival at the sports grounds, the north end sports grounds at the time, we noticed there were Security Police within the grounds.  We met briefly and since I was the only Chief Marshall that accompanied the other marshals, it was decided that I should approach the few, of the marshals and ask them to leave or what were their reasons for their presence within the sports grounds since it was the launch of the Buffalo Flats Youth Congress.
 They tried to be nice with sweet words, but we told them straight away that no, we know the reasons for your presence, but we would like you to leave, but they were adamant to leave and we pursued the cause to insist that they should leave.  They eventually did.  We inspected the sports grounds and found that there were no electricity supply.  We spoke to one of the neighbours and which, who agreed to assist us to supply us with electricity until we had made some other arrangements.  We did that, but we were constantly harassed, wanted to gate-crash the events before it took place.  We prevented them and it was decided that I should be posted at the main entrance with some other marshals.  
 We were approached by this guy, Venter, and he told me that he was still hanging up the flag of the ANC.  He told me if we are busy arranging a terrorist meeting or a gathering, he told me that that is nonsense.  You can see there is the Buffalo Youth Congress flag next to the SAYCO flag.  That is the ANC flat.  He says, yes, but you are supporting every banned organisation.  He said the ANC are a banned organisation, but the ANC flag were never banned before and we asked, we argued and he left.  He came back with more security policemen.  Eventually we went outside with them and argued with them and Hinsa Siwisa arrived and he asked me what the problem was.  I explained to him and he interfered.  Eventually they left and said that, yes, but they are watching us.  
 In the meantime we organised a generator in case they harassed, a neighbour who supplied us with electric supply.  Our guests speakers arrived, but we were constantly harassed.  A police guest speaker arrived.  He wanted to gate-crash and force their way into the sports grounds, but because of the guys posted outside the stadium we were notified beforehand.  We prevented them from entering the gates and we were approached by a certain Colonel.  He was wearing uniform at the time.  He approached me and asked me my surname, my name.  I told him that as far as I am concerned, you are supposed to identify yourself, because ...

JUNE CRICHTON: Mr Cochran, at this point you have mentioned the name of two people in your statement.  Is this the name of this man who approached you, this Colonel?  Is he mentioned in your statement?

JOSEPH COCHRAN: No.

JUNE CRICHTON: No.  Alright.  We will then, we will leave his name out then.  Thank you.

JOSEPH COCHRAN: Well, he tried to detain me for divulging, for giving information concerning myself, but I told him that I do not know you and you are supposed to identify yourself before I do that and Hinsa Siwisa approached again.  He asked me what is wrong and I told him, no, these people are constantly harassing us.  He told me that we are supporting a banned organisation, a terrorist organisation, but I have explained time and again that we are busy with the launch of the Buffalo Flats Youth Congress, a sub-branch of SAYCO at the time.  Hence, they interfered, they left and then we were notified that they were harassing the neighbours supplying us with electricity supply.
 In the meantime we were organising a generator and I was posted with two marshals to go and have a look at what is going on outside.  On our arrival there the other security policemen were harassing these neighbours, giving them their, supporting a banned organisation, a terrorist organisation and I interfered and said, no, do not mislead people.  We are launching the Buffalo Flats Youth Congress and even so the ANC flag has never been banned.  You have been sending our people to prison for the wrong reasons.  Even your (indistinct) have acknowledged that and he harassed me pushing me around and I told him do not push me around and I shoved him one side and he pulled a plug, unplugging the electricity supply.  We left, because we knew that we had a generator ready.  
 They were so frustrated and telling me that, in Afrikaans, "julle is nogal slimgatte" and I said, no, do not use vulgar language, but what is your problem?  He said, yes, "julle raak nou nes die kaffirs" and he smacked me and I asked him what are you hitting me for and I pushed him back and then I was nearly tramped by Venter in a brown Sierra.  I jumped out of the way and just got out of the car.  He smacked me and kicked me and asked me what is your problem and he told me that we are detaining you under Section 29 of the Internal Security Act.  I said, well, in that case then I have problem.  I went and he hit me with the fist behind my neck and he kicked me into the car.

JUNE CRICHTON: Were you the only one that he took with him?