Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-08-29

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I just knew the girls from the township as well as the deceased and Wiseman.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you identify them when you were there standing in Road 13 when Mkhize's girlfriend indicated or pointed to this group of people?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I could clearly identify the men from the clothes that they were wearing on the previous occasion when they shot at us.

CHAIRPERSON: So you knew at that stage that they were possibly armed, correct?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you run away at that stage already, because last time you had met them, they were shooting at you?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: As I have mentioned before, there was a tree that blocked my view and they were also in the company of women, so I did not know whether they were armed.

MR LAX: But these were the people who had given you trouble before.

CHAIRPERSON: Shortly before.

MR LAX: According to you, at any rate.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So why didn't you run away from your attackers, people who were not your friends, they were trying to kill you.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: As I have already mentioned there were women, but I was worried because I realised that Zwelibanzi was amongst them.  This also happened very quickly, because when Mondo went inside the house, went inside the yard, he just started shooting and that was when I ran away.

MR LAX: How far were you standing from this house where the tree was in the garden?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I was on the road, perhaps on that opposite wall to where I'm sitting.

MR LAX: About four, five metres, just the width of an ordinary road?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, it was a tarred road.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know Mkhize was going to go there and shoot the deceased?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not know that he was going to go in there.

MR LAX: Did you not know that that was the deceased's girlfriend's house?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not know that.

MR LAX: But you knew the deceased.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: yes, I knew him.

MR LAX: Well, didn't you know who his girlfriend was, if you knew him?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not know his girlfriend, I only learned about it at the trial.

MS MOHAMED: Mr Nyathikazi, I'm going to take you now to the bundle of documents.  Isn't it correct that you are aware that  Mondo Mkhize has put up an affidavit which is included in this bundle?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, I'm aware of it.

MS MOHAMED: Now in that affidavit on page 20 in paragraph 11 Mr Mkhize sets out the reason for killing the deceased.  Now do you care to comment on that paragraph?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I would say that I was not aware that Mondo was going to do anything to the deceased, because as we had been together, he had not shown any signs of wanting to harm anyone.

MR LAX: Yes, you were asked to comment on the reason he gives here and the reason he gives here is that there was a grudge between them.  He says he killed him out of a grudge, as mentioned earlier on, which I do not consider as political from my point of view.  That's what you were asked to comment on.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: As I've already mentioned, I met Mondo on the way.  He did mention afterwards that he had killed the deceased because of a certain grudge, because the deceased had killed his friend.  I think what he wrote here was advancing his reasons that he had a grudge against the deceased and for him it was not politically motivated.

MS MOHAMED: Isn't it correct that you associated yourself with the death of the deceased in this matter?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, I did associate myself with his death because when he was killed, I was also present,  that is why I have applied for amnesty, for the reason that I was present when Mondo shot Zwelibanzi.

CHAIRPERSON: I've never known a "deader" horse to rise.

MS MOHAMED: Sorry Mr Chairman.  Mr Nyathikazi, there's also an affidavit in this bundle which has been put up by Wiseman Ntuni.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes.

MS MOHAMED: Now in his affidavit he says that Zwelibanzi was still a member of MK as at the date of his death.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I believe he has written so because the deceased was his brother and also for the reason that he had been to exile.

MR LAX: Could I ask a question?  If you had a problem with this deceased, why didn't you just call him before the Comrades Committee of MK as existed in most places, and arrange for him to be disciplined according to your code?  If he was a comrade who was behaving badly, why didn't you just call him before the Street Committee or before the MK Committee?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: His behaviour indicated that he was no longer part of MK.  He behaved like an askari, so it was not easy to call him to a meeting where there would be people who would not necessarily be his comrades.

MR LAX: Well, did you at least report him to your committee?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes.

MR LAX: And what did you do ...(indistinct - speaking simultaneously)  Please continue.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Ms Mohamed we're waiting for you.

MS MOHAMED: Oh I'm sorry Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MOHAMED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Panday, have you any questions?

MR PANDAY: In the light of the evidence produced, not too many questions at all.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm surprised that you have one.

MR PANDAY: Mr Nyathikazi, isn't it correct that when the incident at Road 8 had completed, or when you were attacked in Road 8, that incident was completed and you had no intention of seeking any form of retribution?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not have any intention of retribution.

MR PANDAY: And isn't it also correct that you came across Mondo Mkhize by chance on the day in question?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: Yes, it was not pre-planned.

MR PANDAY: And you would have no idea of what sort of plan Mondo Mkhize had against Zweli Ntuni?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: No, I did not.

MR PANDAY: So finally isn't it correct that based on your evidence there is no way that you can be associated with the killing of Zweli Ntuni?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: What associates me with his death is the fact that I was present when he was shot.

MR PANDAY: Isn't it also correct then that the killing of Zweli Ntuni by Mondo Mkhize was not political?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: As far as Mondo is concerned, it was not politically motivated, but that does not apply to me.

MR PANDAY: Why do you say it does not apply to you?  You had no idea that Zweli was going to be killed on that day.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not know.

MR PANDAY: So if you did not know Zweli was going to be killed on that day, you cannot know about his intentions.

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I did not know what he had intended.

MR PANDAY: Now the family of Zwe Ntuni maintains that Zwe was an ANC member and supporter right up until the day he was murdered.  Why do you suggest differently?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: I believe that Zwelibanzi in whatever he did, he may not have told them what his activities were at the time.  I may understand that they are heartbroken because they lost their son.

MR PANDAY: When did you learn that he is no longer an ANC member?  In what year did you learn this?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: It was after a while.

MR PANDAY: In what year?  Can you recall the year that you learned that he was no longer ANC according to you?

DANNYBOY NYATHIKAZI: In 1993.

MR PANDAY: And did you report this to anybody?

JUDGE POTGIETER: It's hearsay, why must we - what is the value of this, he heard somebody say something?

MR PANDAY: I accept, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE POTGIETER: How does it help us?

MR PANDAY: I accept the point Mr Chairman.  Thank you Mr Nyathikazi, nothing further.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

MS THABETHE: Just a few questions.