Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR PRINSLOO: And the details are contained in the Deed of Sale?

MAUREEN VENTER: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Can you tell the honourable Committee when you took occupation of this residence in Krugersdorp?

MAUREEN VENTER: In the beginning of March 1993.

MR PRINSLOO: Since you have moved to Krugersdorp did you make any contact with Mrs Derby-Lewis?

MAUREEN VENTER: My husband contacted Mr Derby-Lewis before the time.

MR PRINSLOO: And did you contact Mrs Derby-Lewis at any stage?

MAUREEN VENTER: No, I don't know.

MR PRINSLOO: After you moved into the house did you join any organisation called Sport International?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And by whom did you join this organisation?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was through Mrs Derby-Lewis.

MR PRINSLOO: I would just like to submit copies of this document to Mr Bizos in case he would like to study the document.  I don't know if the Committee wishes to receive any copies?  We do have copies if it would be necessary.

CHAIRPERSON: Up to now we don't know what the relevance of it is.

MR PRINSLOO: You joined this organisation on the 19th March 1993?

MAUREEN VENTER: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know when your husband met Mr Derby-Lewis?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was before the date of us joining the Sportron Organisation it must have been before then because my husband contacted Mr Derby-Lewis after we had taken up residence in our home in Krugersdorp.

MR PRINSLOO: Did your husband on that day say that he had contacted Mr Derby-Lewis?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And what happened at your home on that day?

MAUREEN VENTER: We had a party at our home.

MR PRINSLOO: And what was the date?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was the 10th March 1993.

MR PRINSLOO: What was the reason for the party?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was my son's birthday.

MR PRINSLOO: When was your son's birthday?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was on the 7th March and the party was held on the 10th March.

MR PRINSLOO: For which reason was the party held on the 10th March and not on the 7th March?

MAUREEN VENTER: Because my son was not home on the weekend of the 7th March.

MR PRINSLOO: During the specific day of the 10th March did your husband mention anything to you with regard to a firearm?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes he did.  He mentioned to me that he had spoken to Mr Derby-Lewis and at that stage we owned a weapon in the house which was not licensed which I was aware of and he did mention to me that he and Mr Derby-Lewis had had a discussion and that Mr Derby-Lewis had said to him that they were collecting weapons in case of trouble in the country and that he had decided to give the weapon to Mr Derby-Lewis.
	He also said among others - he asked me what I thought of it and I expressed my approval thereof so that we could be rid of the weapon because it was not licensed.

MR PRINSLOO: And did your husband do anything on that day with the weapon?

MAUREEN VENTER: Well he decided to take it to Mr Derby-Lewis and he wrapped in a plastic bag and he left with the weapon.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you see him place it in the plastic bag?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: And was it in any way open apart from the plastic bag?

MAUREEN VENTER: No it was also placed in a plastic container or box and that container was placed into the plastic bag.

MR PRINSLOO: Was a jersey used at any point to conceal the weapon.

MAUREEN VENTER: No, not that I could determine.

MR PRINSLOO: But when he put it in the plastic bag there was no jersey?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you see him take the weapon?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes he told me that he would be taking a drive and that he would be back shortly.

MR PRINSLOO: After you had joined the Sportron Organisation on the 9th March, the person who helped you to join was Mrs Derby-Lewis?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you place any orders with her for the products which were being marketed through the organisation?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes I did place an order for certain products.

MR PRINSLOO: And did you pay for these products or how did it operate?

MAUREEN VENTER: No, I paid on delivery, at least I would pay on delivery.

MR PRINSLOO: Did Mrs Derby-Lewis deliver these products to you?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes, she contacted me at a certain point and told me that she had the products which I'd ordered and asked when it would an appropriate or convenient time for me for the delivery and I mentioned to her that we hadn't had tea for quite some time and I said that Saturday morning would be a good time if she wanted to pop by and deliver the products at my home.

MR PRINSLOO: And on what day did Mrs Derby-Lewis deliver the products?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was Saturday the 10th April 1993.

MR PRINSLOO: Was Mrs Derby-Lewis accompanied by anyone on that day?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes Mr Derby-Lewis was with her.

MR PRINSLOO: And was this at your home?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes this was at my home.

MR PRINSLOO: On that specific day were their any snacks?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes, Mrs Derby-Lewis brought something along, a kind of Danish apple tart which we would have with our tea.

MR PRINSLOO: And on that specific day while you were at home with the Derby-Lewis' did any significant event occur?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes, I received a telephone call, I answered the telephone myself, it was one of my sons and he asked whether or not I had the radio on and I replied no, that we were having tea, that we were outside and I did not have the radio on and he told me "Mommy, did you hear that they shot Chris Hani?"

MR PRINSLOO: And did you convey this news to anyone?

MAUREEN VENTER: Yes I conveyed the news to my husband and Mr and Mrs Derby-Lewis and I told them that my son had phoned and said that apparently Chris Hani had been shot.

MR PRINSLOO: After the event, was this during tea, after tea?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was towards the end of tea, just about before Mr and Mrs Derby-Lewis were leaving and as they were leaving, I informed them of the telephone call and they subsequently left.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you know in any way that your husband was involved in some kind of conspiracy to murder Mr Hani or supply any kind of weapons to Mr Derby-Lewis?

MAUREEN VENTER: No, there was no such talk of it.

MR PRINSLOO: The documents which we have at our disposal are those which pertain to the Sportron Organisation plus the identity documents of the son of the witness in case the date would be disputed.  I will not hand these documents in but I do make them available.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: On behalf of Mr Walus are there any questions you wish to put?

UNKNOWN: No questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BIZOS

GEORGE BIZOS: Madame, for how long had this gun been in your home?

MAUREEN VENTER: If I remember correctly, it could have been for about two and a half years even longer.

GEORGE BIZOS: And why was it kept by you?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was not kept by me, it was kept by my husband and it was given to him.

GEORGE BIZOS: Why was it given to your husband and why was he keeping it?

MAUREEN VENTER: It was given to my husband.

GEORGE BIZOS: And why was he keeping it?  Why did he keep an unlicensed firearm?

MAUREEN VENTER: Well I should think because it was given to him.  I never queried him or asked him about why.  It was given to him and I accepted the fact.

GEORGE BIZOS: Who gave it to him?

MAUREEN VENTER: Somebody by the name, if I remember, Mr Gene Taylor.

GEORGE BIZOS: And who was Mr Gene Taylor and why should he have given a gun to your husband?

MAUREEN VENTER: Well because he knew him.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, I'm sure that you know lots of people, you're not going to say that just knowing a person is a sufficiently good reason to hand out a licensed firearm - unlicensed firearm.

MAUREEN VENTER: The exact reason why the weapon was given to my husband, I can't explain that.  That firearm was not given to me.

GEORGE BIZOS: But you knew that it was in your house?