Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.  Would you like to add anything to what Nomavenda said?

DENNIS CRUYWAGEN: All I can say is that I worked with some talented black female journalists and they have been very good and they have been in the field with me and faced bullets next to me, and the black males and the white males I have worked with, have never treated them as anything but equals. One of the black journalists is now deputy editor of the Weekly Mail & Guardian, Riana Rossouw.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.  Coming back to what you have just said, Nomavenda, you said you trained more or less at the same time with Jon Qwelane and Thami Mazwai. Can you tell us briefly about your training, where did you train, where you started and your experience?

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: Academically I trained as a teacher, but I opted for journalism.  I have never had training in the news room. That was a hands-on training.  The training that I had was perhaps when I travelled abroad and did courses abroad, but I didn't train. I went to no training school in South Africa.

UNKNOWN: In terms of what you are saying, clearly it is like, besides what we have heard from mainly male journalists, there are also issues which are specific to females.  But I want to get clarity. Are you saying that black women were treated differently from their female counterparts as well, or I am trying to see whether you are saying besides the race issue, there is an added burden of being a woman, or are you saying it is only a problem of race only for black women?

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: Well, I thought I said if black journalists were having problems, then black women journalists were even having more problems, because we were not treated in the same way as our male counterparts were.  We were not earmarked for promotion. Nobody paid any attention to developing black women journalists.

UNKNOWN: Okay. Thank you.  Thank you, that point has been noted. We have spent a lot of time hearing or getting different perspectives. One of the issues which has been raised, you do not, it is not mentioned here in your presentation, but I would like you to get to your views on that.  The relationship that journalists had with the State in the past.  It has really created problems.  Yesterday we listened to, we had an opportunity of interacting with one journalist who, when reporting, will concentrate on what Ministers were saying, without going an extra mile, by trying to get alternative views on whatever he was working on. Then there are cases like you have a feeling that politicians do not treat black female journalists with respect. So...

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: Black journalists, whether black or male, I am not aware that they had any relationship with the State. I don't remember a black journalist having had to call a Minister in the apartheid years to interview him or her. It was not our domain, it was white journalists who were doing those stories. We were dealing with black communities. So I can't imagine a state where one would have to call - one would have had a relationship with the State.  Today, although we wrote about these people, when they were activists, they are now different people. They are politicians.  They are no longer acceptable to us as they were in the past.  In fact, I find, what I find sad for the state of affairs is that they are ever so willing to talk to white journalists, more than they would like to talk to us. Those are some of the frustrations we have with black journalists, our politicians. Even if you wrote about them, during the apartheid years, when they were activists, today they'd rather give those stories to white journalists than they give them to black journalists.

UNKNOWN: Why - I am still trying to understand your views on how you see the relationship - how the relationship should be between the government - the State and the media.  Based on what we have heard, especially yesterday, it is like you are better off if you do not interact with members of Parliament. If you concentrate on what the public has got to say about them, because if you strive hard to work closely with them, you might end up finding a niche whereby you collude, so to say, instead of being the voice of the public.

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: I don't think we want to have a relationship with politicians, but I think the line should be open. I think in an age of transparency, they should be able to - we should be able to pick up the phone and ask for a statement.  That is what we want. We do not want to hobnob with them, that is not our role as journalists.  As journalists is to report what is going on.  But if there is a need for them to respond to our stories, then they should do so. I don't think we are looking for a lovey-dovey relationship with politicians, no. I don't think I would be a journalist if that was the situation.

UNKNOWN: Before I hand you back over to the Chair, we, as we are sitting here, we have been listening and also trying hard as to - because partly we have got to make recommendations about how and what should be done in future.  Now you have brought another dimension to the story.  In our own view, I mean, first of all, I must put my cards on the table.  I agree with you. In the South African media if we don't have a female voice we are missing out a lot, because the way you see things, you name things, you are influenced by your consciousness, not only as a - on racial grounds, but also on gender.	You know, do you have any views as to what should be done in developing competent female journalists?

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: It is not puzzle. It shouldn't - we shouldn't even be debating on what should be done.  What should they do for white journalists, the same way that they earmark white journalists who when they are entering the profession, they could do the same thing for us. I mean, it is easy to see that someone is a good journalist.  In six months you know that that is a journalist material and that is not. Why can't they do that, why can't they develop us?

UNKNOWN: As one of the - I mean you refer to yourself as a senior person and you, in terms of perception, you are aware, have you got a vision or a plan in your own mind as to what should be done, which you can table to maybe before a relevant Minister, challenge the Government, have you got a vision? Even some of the black journalists that you interviewed, have you thought of the solution, as you were talking to them?

NOMAVENDA MATHIANE: When I talked to them, the journalists that I interviewed, they said to me why bother even going to the Truth Commission, I mean, what is going to come out of it, you know.  And some people have said for black women journalists to have meaningful positions, they need to start their own newspapers, and I turn around and say have black journalists started their own newspaper? I mean, it is very well for people to say we should start our own newspaper when they haven't.  So what vision do I have?  I just think, you know, the same route that we have taken over the years to train white journalists should be done.  black journalists should be sent to universities and there are also journalists who come out of universities, who are also not even getting promotion.  So there is a problem there. Management should open up and just train journalists the way that they train, the same way that they trained white journalists.

UNKNOWN: Thank you. I will hand you over to the Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mary Burton?