Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-13

COMMISSIONER: Because we have heard many other witnesses tell the same sort of story yesterday, particularly in areas like Murchison, where people were forced to go on night camps, and if they did not go some of them were assaulted and even killed.  And it seems as though that you were being forced into the same sort of thing, to go on an night camp, is that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mr Mapumulo, is Greener Park under some chief?  Who is the chief?

WITNESS:   It's Samelo.  Samelo is the chief.  Samuel is the chief.  Samuel Mavundla is the  chief.

KHOZA MGOJO: Your place is still there?  I've heard that your house got burnt, but you still have your area, some space there in Greener Park?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you prepared to go back some time?

WITNESS:   No, I am not prepared.  I am not going to go back.  I'll be taking a risk.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there any violence still going on in Greener Park?

WITNESS:   Maybe I shall say this.  You know things now are - they are just - the situation has changed as such, but there are still those who are marauders.

KHOZA MGOJO: As the chief, Samuel Mavundla, did he have any words after all what happened in Greener Park?

WITNESS:   Yes, he did have a word, especially he went on to say, "Anyone who is a coward must be left alone.  You must not pursue any cowards.  Just leave the cowards alone.  Don't harass the cowards.  Because this thing of IFP is not right to play around with people's feelings."

KHOZA MGOJO: Did he put a stop on that?

WITNESS:   Yes, he did.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Mapumulo, we want to thank you very, very much for coming here today and telling us this very tragic story.  It's very, very difficult for us to understand how people can do that, to attack elderly people in their house, to burn the house down, and to kill their child.  It's very difficult for us to understand that, but we have heard so many stories like that.  We express our deep sympathy to you and your wife.  You have lost your greatest asset, your house, your greatest physical asset, and you have lost another asset in that your child has also been killed, has been taken from you,  and instead of being able to relax in your retirement in your home with your children around you you are now forced to rent a house.  You said in your statement that you are paying R340,00 a month for the rent of the house out of a pension of R410,00 a month, and it's very sad that at this stage of your life you should be placed in that position.  We will try and investigate why those people weren't charged, the two people that you have mentioned.  We will try and follow that up, and we will also be making recommendations to the Government as to how you, and other people like you, who have been so badly dealt with, how you should be assisted, and we will be making those recommendations to the President.  So we want to thank you again very much for coming in to talk to us today.  Thank you.

COMMISSIONER: We welcome you and greet you this morning, Mrs Dlamini.  Can you hear me and understand me through the earphones?

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: Yes.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you.  I see that there's somebody else who's with you on the stage today.  Who is that?

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: It's one of the family members.

COMMISSIONER: One of your family members?

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: This is Mrs Mavundla, Esther Mavundla.  She is accompanying me.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Mrs Dlamini, you have come here today, along with several other people who are in the audience today, to tell us about a terrible incident which took place in Nsangweni near Port Shepstone.

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: In April - sorry, in October - no, sorry, in September 1992.  I apologise.  It was a massacre which took place at Nsangweni, and 11 people were killed in that massacre, and you lost your daughter, Thandekile Goodness Dlamini.

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: That's true.

COMMISSIONER: Before you tell us that story can you please stand up and take the oath.

TOKOZILE DLAMINI: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: I'd just like to mention that Mrs Mavundla, who is with you on the stage, is the mother of somebody who died, the mother of a child who died in that incident.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

COMMISSIONER: /DR MGOJO

KHOZA MGOJO: Good afternoon, ladies.  Mrs Tokozile Dlamini, where do you stay?

WITNESS:   I am staying under Chief Samuel Mavundla at Zolwini.

KHOZA MGOJO: With whom are you staying there?

WITNESS:   I am staying with my children.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many are they?

WITNESS:   They are 10.

KHOZA MGOJO: Are you saying they are 10 at the moment?

WITNESS:   yes, I mean the whole family we are 10.  I am the 11th.

KHOZA MGOJO: So it means you had 11 children and you were 12 in all?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where are your children at the moment?  These 10 children, are they schooling?

WITNESS:   Yes, four of them are schooling.  Others don't go to school, and the other three are the children of my elder children.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is your husband passed away?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

KHOZA MGOJO: How long since he passed away?

WITNESS:   It was 1985.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was he sick?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was sick.

KHOZA MGOJO: What kind of work are you doing?

WITNESS:   I am working as a temporary worker at St Michael's store.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time when all this happened did your family belong to any particular political organisation?

WITNESS:   yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Which organisation?

WITNESS:   It was IFP.

KHOZA MGOJO: What form did you play in the organisation?

WITNESS:   I was the Women Brigade's leader within the IFP.

KHOZA MGOJO: You mean at your area?

WITNESS:   Yes, at our area at Nsangweni.

KHOZA MGOJO: And on 1992, September 1992, can you tell us briefly what happened?

WITNESS:   It was on the 4th of September 1992.  We were to take a journey to a youth conference at Ulundi.  Before the 4th of September as a mother I had to accompany the youth.  I organised the youth, telling them that they should form church choirs.  And it happened like that, they used to come to sing these choruses.  Then on Thursday it was the appointed day on which we had to leave to Ulundi.  And the youth have to go back to their homes on Thursday, they had to come back on Friday.  And they started preparing their song.  This means that they were to leave the place to Ulundi on Friday, not Thursday.  While the youth were busy rehearsing their songs one of my younger daughters - I think at that time she was about 12 years old - the others asked her, they wanted her to accompany them because she has a good voice, so they wanted to accompany her in the rehearsals.  They continued their songs.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said you were not happy about taking your young daughter with you.  You said she might be killed.  Do you have any experience of killings?

WITNESS:   Yes, I could feel it in my bones at the time before that happened.  I wanted to sleep and wake up.  I wasn't feeling well.  After that a man came.  He was also a leader of the Men's Brigade, and they had to go to the induna, the headman, to ask for an inthelezi in order to spread it on us before we go.   This headman from whom you have to ask the inthelezi, was he the one who was using the inthelezi?    ---   No, he wasn't using it, but we used to think that he's the one who have this inthelezi.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was it the normal thing that used to happen before you go?

WITNESS:   Yes, we used to go and get inthelezis before we go.  My sons went to the headman to ask for inthelezi.  Before they came back - at my home this house is divided into two.  There is one side which is completed, the other one is not yet complete.  I was sitting in front of the complete building, opposite to the unfinished house, and the children were singing at that time.  I heard a sound.