Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

CHAIRPERSON: Then I will administer the oath to Mr Ndzamela.  Can you please stand, Mr Ndzamela.  Can you give your full names please?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ntanunu, he's your witness.

MR NTANUNU: Thank you, Honourable Chair.
	Mr Ndzamela, there is an affidavit which I've read into the mike here and which has been marked Exhibit B.  Now first of all, have you deposed to that affidavit?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NTANUNU: Now, in the affidavit in question you have in paragraph 3 in particular, and 4, mentioned that the whole affidavit of Mayapi has been read and interpreted to you and you confirm the contents thereof, is that the position?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NTANUNU: Now, you have heard some other things which were said by Mr Mayapi here, both at the time I was leading him and also at the time he was cross-examined by the counsels for the victims.  You heard him?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is so.

MR NTANUNU: Now, insofar as his replies to those questions are concerned, do you also align yourself with them?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes.

MR NTANUNU: Now I asked Mr Mayapi a question where I've asked him whether it has since come to his knowledge that a small child, a boy of about 12, in fact lost his life in the operation in question and also that those two girls who are seated over there also lost their father, you are also aware of that.

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR NTANUNU: Now it is a painful thing to lose a loved one, what do you say, what can you say to them?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: I would like to apologise to them and I would like to add that we did not aim at certain people or certain families even though they were affected, so I'm sorry, I apologise for what happened.

MR NTANUNU: Lastly, are you pleading with the Honourable Amnesty Committee to grant you amnesty?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is so.

MR NTANUNU: Is there perhaps anything which you'd like to add, which you feel has not been covered?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, there is.

MR NTANUNU: Can you just add that?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: What I would like to say is this.  When this incident happened the political situation that existed at the time, I don't think it was clearly explained.

MR NTANUNU: I seem to having problems with my headphones, can you repeat what you have said, Mr Ndzamela.  The other thing that I request of you is not to be fast please.  Can you just repeat what you have said and not be fast.

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: What I'm saying is, the political situation at the time, I don't think it was explained clearly, so I would like to add on that point.

MR NTANUNU: Is that the only think you wanted to add?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes.

MR NTANUNU: Thank you, Honourable Chair, thank you, Honourable Members of the Committee, I think I'm through with this witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Ntanunu.  Mr Jaco, any questions?

MR JACO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, just one question of this applicant.
	Mr Ndzamela, you are very brief in your affidavit, are you sure you have made a full disclosure of the events, in accordance with the Act?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR JACO: You also confirm what we have been told by the first applicant in his affidavit, that is Mr Mayapi.

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MR JACO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JACO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Jaco.  Ms Wild, any questions?

MS WILD: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  	Mr Ndzamela, Ms Hudson was a little distressed that you didn't in fact look at the girls, she wondered whether you could maybe look at them.  She didn't feel that you'd maybe seen her in directing the remarks which you made.

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, I can.  I don't have a problem, I can look at her.

MS WILD: And I take it that you do apologise to her as she understands?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, I do apologise to her.

MS WILD: And in that regard I take it that you also request forgiveness, as your colleague did?

IAN NDIBULELE NDZAMELA: Yes, that is correct.

MS WILD: I'd like to indicate, Mr Chairman, and other members of the Committee, that Ms Hudson would like to forgive the second applicant as well.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Wild.  We have noted.  Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chair, I have no questions for this witness.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Mr Ntanunu?

MR NTANUNU: Thank you, Honourable Chair, no re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR NTANUNU
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jaco, have you got any evidence that you wish to lead?

MR JACO: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, there is no evidence, except that Mrs Ntakana, the one I'm representing, Mr Chairperson, wishes to state that she is forgiving the two applicants also.  Thank you, that is all.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Jaco, we have noted the view of your client.  Ms Wild, are you going to lead anything?

MS WILD: No, Mr Chairman, Members of the Committee, we won't be leading any evidence, we'd just like to place on record though that both the daughters of Mr Hudson, by virtue of the death of their father, suffered great financial difficulty and are now both orphans, having suffered the recent death of their mother and that it is from their position of suffering and hardship that they have suffered as a result of the loss of their father, that they forgive them.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Wild.  Ms Patel?

MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, I do not intend to call any witnesses, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Patel.  Mr Ntanunu, any submissions?