Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

VOICE SAMBO: No, there wasn't, there was no-one.

CHAIRPERSON: And the evidence that suggests that it is not you who dispossessed him of his firearm, but it is in fact the people who had grouped around the scene of the incident, that evidence is in fact not true?

VOICE SAMBO: That's a lie.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, you may proceed.

MS THABETE: Mr Sambo, when did you, if there was nobody around the scene, can you explain when did your brother come to the scene?

VOICE SAMBO: I saw him when my wife was driving from my house.  I don't know where he came from, but I saw him jumping inside the car.

MS THABETE: Where was your wife going?   This is after the scene.

VOICE SAMBO: We were heading for the police station.

MS THABETE: I don't quite get you, Mr Sambo, I'm asking you when did your brother arrive at the scene?   You're saying you saw him when you were on your way with your wife to the police station?

VOICE SAMBO: This was after the incident, and this is when, after O'Farrell came with the ambulance and then Victor came and jumped in the car.   I don't know where he was coming from, I didn't see that.

MS THABETE: I'm a bit confused, I don't know whether... (intervention).

MR LAX: There's nothing to be confused about, Ms Thabete, his previous evidence was that after this whole thing, they drove to a police station, his wife drove him.    What he's now saying is that the only time his brother came "on the scene", in inverted commas, not necessarily the scene of the shooting, is when his brother got into the car at the time they were heading for the police station.   His previous evidence was that there was nobody else at the house, when you asked him about other people.

CHAIRPERSON: In the vicinity, not in the house.

MS THABETE: Sorry, Mr Sambo, before you do, what's confusing me is that in your affidavit you say you went to the police station together with your wife and your brother where you submitted guns and told them what had happened.   So what I wanted to know is, when did your brother arrive at your house?

VOICE SAMBO: I asked my wife as to where was my brother coming from, where was he coming from, because he only jumped inside the car when we were, me and my wife, we were on our way to the police station, I even asked my wife this, where did he come from, but he came after.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you still have difficulty with that response, Ms Thabete?   Do you still have difficulties?

MS THABETE: I do, but maybe I'm confused and... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETE: Ja.

CHAIRPERSON: What confuses you?

MS THABETE: What I was asking, the applicant says there was nobody at the house.

CHAIRPERSON: In the vicinity around... (intervention).

MS THABETE: In the vicinity around.

CHAIRPERSON: ...where this incident took place... (intervention).

MS THABETE: Right.

CHAIRPERSON: ...not necessarily in the house, in the premises... (intervention).

MS THABETE: In the premises.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETE: Yes, yes.   And my instructions are that the brother, together with other people, attacked Mr O'Farrell.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.   Now you will recall that when that was put to him, he said as far as he is aware, he only saw Mr O'Farrell, and he saw Mr O'Farrell cocking his gun approaching him, and that there was no-one around Mr O'Farrell at that stage, not the brother nor a small group of people that we are aware, according to the court records, are alleged to have been around and are alleged to have in fact assaulted Mr O'Farrell and dispossessed Mr O'Farrell of his gun.   He has further stated that it was not that small group who dispossessed Mr O'Farrell, it was himself who did that.   Now the brother, as he says, left him in the lurch, so to say, when this thing was going on, he suddenly appeared from nowhere after the shooting had taken place and as they were driving to the police station with his wife, and he doesn't know where the brother was.

MR LAX: Is that correct, Mr Sambo, as the chairperson's put it?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MS THABETE: I've got no further questions, Madam Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE

ADV BOSMAN: Could I just, before you finish, can I just clarify?   Mr Sambo, did you live on the premises where this incident took place?

VOICE SAMBO: No.   It's my parents' house, my house it's next door, next to my parents' house.

ADV BOSMAN: Now how far, how far from where the incident took place, is your parents' house?

VOICE SAMBO: 50 to 70 metres.   50 metres.

ADV BOSMAN: And were there people home that day?   It was daylight as far as I have it?

VOICE SAMBO: No, I didn't see anyone there.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.

MR LAX: Just to follow up, were there people at your house, which was about 50 metres away?

VOICE SAMBO: Yebo.

MR LAX: Lots of people?

VOICE SAMBO: There was my wife only.

MR LAX: Only your wife?

VOICE SAMBO: Yebo.

MR LAX: And where was your brother, before this thing happened, was he around?

VOICE SAMBO: I didn't see Victor at all before this incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Wasn't it your earlier evidence that your brother was sitting in the sand somewhere in one of the premises?   Am I recollecting incorrectly?   I could be.  If I am, please correct me.

VOICE SAMBO: No, I didn't say so.   I did mention a sand next to the BMW under the tree.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, and I'm glad I have been corrected, because I think I had made a note to that effect.   Now I recall, Mr Sambo, I think I am recalling the summary of the evidence given by Judge Curlewis, but your version is that your brother was never at the scene at all as far as you can recall, is it not so?

VOICE SAMBO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, do you have any re-examination?

MR BLACK: There are just two, perhaps three aspects that I just want some clarity on.

MR BLACK: It was put to... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: That's not really - are you sure that will be re-examination, if you want clarity?

MR BLACK: Well, I could, it probably would be re-examination in the sense, it was put to you by a question that after you had disarmed the deceased, this is what my learned friend put to you, that after you had bit the wrist and disarmed the deceased, you cocked the weapon and you waved it around, all right?   You denied that.

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Now at that stage had you already, after disarming the deceased, had you already been shot, before you had disarmed the deceased?

VOICE SAMBO: Yes.

MR BLACK: And then you said, it was then put to you that Mr O'Farrell then shot you, and your answer to that was, that's not correct, because by that time you could have killed him.

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Because at that stage you already had the gun of the deceased in your possession, is that correct?

VOICE SAMBO: Which time are you referring to... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: When you saw Mr... (intervention).

VOICE SAMBO: ...when you say "at that time"?

MR BLACK: Okay... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: When you saw Mr O'Farrell, you had a gun that belonged to Mr Van der Spuy.

MR BLACK: It was put to you that Mr O'Farrell was starting to walk towards you with his gun cocked, and that he's the one that shot you and not Mr Van der Spuy, and your answer was, "It's not true, because I could have killed him if he did that".

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: Because at that stage you already had Mr Van der Spuy's gun, is that correct, and you had already been shot?

VOICE SAMBO: That's correct.

MR BLACK: I have no further questions, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Black.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BLACK

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Bosman, do you have any questions to put to Mr Sambo?