Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-24

MR BRINK: I have ascertained that it was Teboho Makhuza, he was one of the victims.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: (sworn states)

UNKNOWN: Chairperson the interpreters cannot hear, we will be using one microphone. Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Kloppers you have applied for amnesty and it is embodied in volume 1 from page 1 to page 23 and Annexure on the page 117 to 126. You are aware of the content of your application forms as well as Annexures A and B. Do you confirm the content there of?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I confirm the contents.

UNKNOWN: Mr Kloppers how old are you?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I am 45.

UNKNOWN: Were you ever a member of the SAP or the Defence Force?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I was an information officer for the South African Defence Force.

UNKNOWN: And for how long were you there?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: For 10 years.

UNKNOWN: Did you ever perform border duty?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I did border duty.

UNKNOWN: For how long?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: On 5 separate occasions I performed border duty.

UNKNOWN: And time periods?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: 3 months every time.

UNKNOWN: And were you taught there in respect of the enemies of the Republic of South Africa?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: We opposed the ANC/SACP Alliance at that time and also SWAPO who was involved in our struggle.

UNKNOWN: And you became a member of the AWB?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That is correct in 1987.

UNKNOWN: And were you an active member?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I was not an active member. At that point I was called a TV member. I became an active member later.

UNKNOWN: What do you mean by TV member?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That I would wait for instructions and I became by my own choice.

UNKNOWN: Why did you join the AWB?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: From the very beginning at a meeting held by Eugene Terreblanche in the Town Hall in Randfontein he sounded convincing enough to me to associate with objectives which he set out there. Objectives such as a pure Akrikaner "volk," that we would have our own Volksfront just as in Bophutatswana which had its own independence. We would also achieve our own independence.

UNKNOWN: Did you at that point belong to any political party?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I was a member of the Conservative Party and later also a member of the Volksfront. And naturally I was a member of the AWB which is not a political organisation but a para-military unit.

UNKNOWN: You said that you were first a dormant member, when did you become actively involved?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I became actively involved in 1993.

UNKNOWN: Why did you become active in that year?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: After I had seen what was happening in South Africa that the National Party was granting a full take over to the ANC. And also had seen what had happened at the national summit with the Volksfront that they had burst through the doors and I decided that it was time to become personally actively involved so I could tell my children one day that I stood up for my country, my "volk," my fatherland. That was our motto.

UNKNOWN: Yesterday an exhibit was submitted, Exhibit A it was phase 1 of the then commander officers' course of the AWB. Were you aware of this booklet?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I am fully aware of that booklet. It is not only a manual but it also comprised parts of the training structure which I presented as an academic officer.

UNKNOWN: What was your rank? You said that you were an academic officer in 1993 in the AWB?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I started being a candidate officer. I moved quite quickly upwards and proved myself as a man who could be used in training because my work was involved with adult education. And that is why I was implemented as an academic officer for the West Rand. I was then promoted to Chief Commandant of Randfontein area and then I was promoted to a brigadier.

UNKNOWN: As an academic officer, what were your duties?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: As an academic officer I trained all the members of the then commando under my command and from other areas according to phase 1 that they would be familiar with it and that they would understand what was meant by an immanent revolution.

UNKNOWN: This phase 1, yesterday one of the members stated that it was merely an information piece.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: It was not only an information piece it was completely used as part of the training structure and I used it as such.

UNKNOWN: Would it have embodied the objectives of the AWB ... mentioned in any way in this Phase 1?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Our objectives are clearly stated in Phase 1, it is on page 11, 12 and 13.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry I think at some point the taking of photos should stop because I think they are about to detract the witness.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: Thank you Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: You have said that the objectives are embodied on page 11, 12 and 13?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: If I have it correctly.

UNKNOWN: On page 17 of the document.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: My copies are in my briefcase.

UNKNOWN: He does have a copy. I am indicating Exhibit A, if you will look at page 17, page 15 has to do about the historic origin of the AWB and then on page 17 there is a revolution at hand. And then I would like to refer you to the second last line of the first paragraph underneath that heading. It says: "The AWB does not plan or desire revolution." It is in bold print. " But will not hesitate and accept a Black Communist regime. It is then a struggle until death."

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: That is one hundred percent.

UNKNOWN: You have heard the testimony and I will lead you regarding the revolution which would originate but it goes further. "History has taught us that a revolution wastes its children. The AWB as a "volksbeweging" does not desire a revolution but if it is enforced upon it, it will with the help of God be the victor in the struggle. From the axles of the revolution the ideals of the "Boerevolk" will emerge. A "Boerevolkstaat" where in which the freedom ideal will be embodied." How do you reconcile this if you wish to testify that there was a revolution in 1993?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: The revolution which originated began within the situation in Kempton Park along with the Volksfront with the take over phase of CODESA. We saw that the revolution was at hand because it was advertised to us as such from the platform by various generals among others our leader at that time, Eugene Terreblanche. And we reconciled ourselves with that. That is why I was of the view that the revolution had broken out.

UNKNOWN: Did the AWB come to a decision then that the revolution was being enforced upon the "Boerevolk" and that it had to move over to that?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: In terms of my discussions and meetings with General Jappie Oelofse I would have to admit that. It is correct Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: You have testified that you then became active and you were appointed as Chief Commandant of area 9.

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: I was later appointed as Chief Commandant of area 9, it was an area of approximately 4000 according to the computer printout.

UNKNOWN: And the applicants in this case were they under your command?

PHILLIPUS CORNELIUS KLOPPERS: All the applicants involved in this case comprised part of my top structure but were directly under the command of my second in command, Deon Martin. We acted purely in a military fashion according to the structures of rank the hierarchy was formed. Anything which was communicated through to anyone else was communicated by my commandant.

UNKNOWN: During 1993 you said various meetings were held. Were meetings held where other political parties were involved which were not AWB members?