Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-21

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I suppose I must have been there, I don't know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Mr Burger, there is other evidence that ...

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: What it says here is
"... Region 6, Nico Bessenger"

MR KAHANOVITZ: But there is other evidence that the CCB was working on a project relating to Nico Bessenger, are you aware of that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, it is possible.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You cannot recall?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I think I have to say that it is an external Region, I cannot discuss it any further.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Okay.   Then, the following page, might I just put it to you the reason that you don't want to give me an answer to that question is because you are aware that Region 6 was working on a project encompassing the possible assassination of Nico Bessenger?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Is that an assumption that you are making?

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, I am putting that to you that that is why you are giving the answers that you are giving.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.  No, that is not so.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Page 17, 28th of April, once again, two entries in roundabout the middle of "things to do", once again
"... phone Hekkies ...",
	and once again -
"... ammunition for Region 6"

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I see it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You will also see the last entry,
"... passport and ID photographs for S. le Roux (who is Chappie Maree)"

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now, are you prepared to comment on what that passport was being obtained for?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Inference, external.

MR KAHANOVITZ: All right, that seems to be a logical inference.   If you could turn the page, page 18, the 9th of May.
	You will see the entry at one o'clock, it says -
"... Region 6 (appointment time and under 'things to do' it says) pre-study on priority targets."
	All right, so we infer that there was to be a meeting of Region 6 concerning the preparatory studies on the priority targets.  Does that sound fair to you?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Right, then you look at the bottom left hand page, sorry the bottom left hand corner of the page, you will see the names of the four people attached to Region 6 appear in the left hand column, and in the right hand column reference is made to the targets that they are working on.  Andries, we know, is Slang van Zyl, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: We know that he was working on Omar, which is what appears from that entry, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: The reference to SWAPO, what is that a reference to?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I am assuming it was the incident with the bus, the minibus.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you don't really know?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.

MR KAHANOVITZ: All right.  Then there is a reference to Deon which is a reference to Calla Botha?  It says he is working on Two and he is working on Bruce White?  Who is Two?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I don't know.

MR KAHANOVITZ: We will get to, it comes up again later.  Stephan, is Chappie Maree?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Evans?  Which accords with the evidence here, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Bert is you?  And that entry is a reference to Von Vinkelstein?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You were working on Von Vinkelstein, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I was supposed to work on him, but I didn't.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was Von Vinkelstein?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: He was a person who lived in Namibia.

MR KAHANOVITZ: He was a white member of SWAPO, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: That is correct, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You say you were supposed to be working on him, well, what happened to the project?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Well, we never actually worked on it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But why, if it says that Slang will work on Omar, and Deon will work on White and Evans will be worked on by Maree and we know that all of those things happened, why would yours not be processed?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It wasn't done.

MR KAHANOVITZ: That is all you are going to tell us?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I don't know what more to tell you.

MR KAHANOVITZ: It appears that he is a priority target, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Well, it is clear that Von Vinkelstein was allocated to me, that I was told to monitor him or get some information about him, but there were no projects or anything on him, although it is external and I don't have to answer any questions.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Who assigned him to you?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: The information came from the Co-ordinator, via the Managing Director.

MR KAHANOVITZ: All right, so you would then have to travel to Namibia to go and monitor him or get someone to do that job for you?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What did you do?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Nothing.

MR KAHANOVITZ: You, just of your own accord, decided to drop him?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: No.  There were other things that I was busy with.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Namely?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I cannot remember.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Oh, you can't, all right.  Turn the page, the 30th of May, page 19.  You will see that the salaries that everyone is getting there, have now jumped rather dramatically.

CHAIRPERSON: At least three or four fold in some cases?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes, would you care to explain that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I beg your pardon Mr Bizos?

GEORGE BIZOS: I just said to Mr Kahanovitz, once you are asking, that it wasn't a Christmas bonus because it was during May.

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR MARTINI: Chairperson, nowhere on this diary does it say that is a salary.  The other ones we have seen "salaris" on the top.

CHAIRPERSON: No, that point is taken, Mr Martini, it doesn't say salary, but perhaps the question can be asked what were these payments, Mr Burger?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Chairperson, it is definitely not a salary adjustment.  For whatever reason there must have been a bonus paid out or - I can't remember.  We were barely settled into the Region at that stage, I don't know what it represented, but it must have been some kind of bonus.

CHAIRPERSON: And that ...

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: But not based on production.

CHAIRPERSON: I see there are two figures against each name, one is a large amount in the R9 000-00's, in your case in
R11 000-00's, which may or may not incorporate salary, seeing it is the 30th of the month, plus some other money, and then each one has an amount of R701-40, a very particular amount.  Do you know what that might have been for?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I think we were paid a car allowance, but I think Mr Basson will be able to give you a clearer picture, whether it was a car allowance, we also had pager allowances as well.  I don't know what it would represent, but there was such an amount, R701-40 which we got additionally.

MR KAHANOVITZ: All right ...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Kahanovitz, these, all these monies received, that would have been cash, you confirmed that?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Everything in cash, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Next page 20, the 2nd of June.  Now, "Project Maxi", was one of your projects, correct?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes, that is correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What was "Project Maxi"?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It was a foreign project.

MR KAHANOVITZ: That is all you are telling us?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: Yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: So the entry
"... Get Goldie Maxi Makarov bullets ...",
	are you prepared to explain that to us?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I don't know if those two lines form one sentence.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Why were you getting bullets for a Makarov?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: I beg your pardon, Makarov?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Yes?  What project does this relate to?

DANIEL F DU TOIT BURGER: It could refer to the project of Mr Omar.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But you are guessing there?