Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-05

MR MOGASWANE: Now  my story took place in 1986 then.  I was arrested by the Kwandebele police.  They were driving in Hippos in the township of Moutse.  I remember the date, it was on the 24th June 1986.  They took me to the local police
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station here at Denalton and I was kept there for more than three weeks and we were requesting them to release us or maybe take us to another prison. Because it was a cell and we were packed and the conditions were not good.  And they took us to Middelberg prison.  That is where we arrived in large numbers. We were many.  I spent a few days, it can be plus minus five days.  We were seven in numbers and one day we were just called by our names.  Our names were called.  This person had a list in his hand and he said please follow us and we went out.  There was a van parked outside.  That was a police van belonging to the Kwandebele police.  And the seven of us got into the van.  They drove with us until to a point called Witbank Park Stand, that is a prison in Witbank.  We were kept there, the seven of us.  The prison was full to capacity.  People from Middelberg, Nelspruit.  The police were picking up just everybody.  After quite some time, if I remember well it was towards the end of July, the prisoners that were left behind at Middelberg were transferred, all of them, to this Witbank prison.  That is Limpec Stand.  As we were still in prison on the 11th August in the same year.  Let me say it was just a few days before the 11th August, it was heard that a minister, a chief minister in Kwandebele, has passed away and it was alleged he was behind this unrest and we were told that this chief minister was Makawe Ntuli and people were surprised and on the 11th when we woke up in the morning they said to us the Kwandebele group you have to go back because the person who was the perpetrator of the unrest in Kwandebele is dead.  Now go back to your community and join your leaders.  We were released on that day and we came to our respective homes but the unrest went on.  The unrest never stopped.  We
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were released in August and in March the next year, I can't remember the date but it was in March, a certain man knocked at my door at night.  It was about ten o'clock and he knocked at my door.  I kept quiet and he continually knocked and and I had to ask who are you and he said to me I am a policeman, open up and I said to him what do you want and he said to me I am sent here to pick you up, you are speaking in Zulu.  I knew that the township was not stable and I couldn't resist opening the door.  I opened the door and when I opened this door this man was standing wearing an overall.  It was a jacket and a pair of trousers and he had a balaclava but not covering his face.  It was just up to the forehead and he said to me where are your clothes, we have to leave and I said where are you taking me so late in the evening.  He said I am taking you to the police station.  I said to him don't you think it will be wise for me to come to the police station the next morning.  He said don't waste my time.  I then dressed and then we left.  But just before we could reach the gate there was a white man heavily built and he had a towel just behind his head and when he saw me he turned so that I could not identify his face and he spoke in Afrikaans and he said blindfold him and I didn't understand what is this blindfold him and this man grabbed me and he said stand still.  And he had one hand in the pocket and with immediate effect there was a cloth and I was blindfolded and I said I am not just going to die a silent death, I want to fight for myself and I was battling to remove this cloth on my face but this other white man with a towel was heavily built and he came to me and I tried to scream for help.  I think I only screamed once.  Opening my mouth they managed to put a cloth into my mouth.  I don't
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know what cloth it was.  And my wife heard that there was a scream outside and she came out of the house.  She wanted to see what was going on but she was late because we were right inside the yard and outside the yard very close to the gate there was a Ford van, 150 model.  Those who know cars will tell you it has a red stripe from the front mudguard to the back mudguard and it had a canopy and three men were standing by the van and two of them were standing by the van and the other one was just standing.  And that was the last time I saw what happened because I was blindfolded.  I tried to remove the cloth but I couldn't because these were very heavily built men.  I was then handcuffed at the back and my feet were chained and I was picked up.  I was thrown into this van.  I was made to lie and as I was lying my head was between their feet.  They didn't insult at all, they didn't assault me.  Because I was born and bred here I just used my senses to follow the direction as the car was turning and I could feel that it was turning to Moutse not Mutsi, that is the direction from Mouteti.  It was now turning towards the left to Mouteti village and I knew that there was T-junction and I said to myself oh well if it is going to Mouteti it is going to take the right turn.  If it is taking a left turn it will be heading for other villages.  And when we arrived at Mouteti I could feel that we were now in Mouteti.  They turned to the right and I now felt now they were taking the Seobuswa direction.  We drove for quite a long time.  At one stage the car slowed down.  Even if you are blindfolded but when you get into a very light room you will see that you are in the light now.  You are no more in the dark.  So I could see that light was on my face but I was lost.  I didn't know where I was.  I think it was Marble Hall because
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of the lights.  I am not sure but I think the car drove into a yard.  They took me out of the van.  I was put inside something, I don't know how to describe this thing that they put me in.  It was moving as I was also moving and I thought it was a caravan and I didn't know what to call this thing.  When I got into this I heard a person crying and I could hear that this person was crying because of pain and I said oh this is what is going to happen to me and I said they aren't going to kill him, he is continually crying and shouting for help.  I think the distance where the sound was coming from might be very close to those walls outside.  I was then put into this thing that I have told you and they poured petrol into my nose and they said Khala can you smell that.  I said no.  They said you are lying.  This is petrol, you have been burning people to death.  Today we are going to burn you.  And I said to them please, if you want to kill me you rather shoot me, don't burn me.  They said but you got it right to burn other people and I said please.  I don't know what happened but was I was lying one of them put his boot on my chest and I was the bridge of some kind because he was going in both directions passing over my chest.  After a few minutes there was silence but people who were conversing, it seemed as if they were whispering these people as they were talking, they were hiding something.  They were really whispering at all times and they left me in that little room and I was left with a certain man, the man who knocked at my door when I was at home and I spent the night with him until the next morning when the sun rose.  Nobody came that day.  I was together with him, he was sort of my friend for that day but he was cruel.  He wouldn't say anything to me.  Nothing.  He was quiet, he didn't even
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cough.  You know when a person is tired he would normally stand up, stretch himself, but this one didn't do such things.  I mentioned earlier on that I was handcuffed and my feet were chained.  I tried to feel my nose, I tried to just open this cloth so that I can see but I could see this house built with corrugated iron with thatched roof but I couldn't see from a distance and I saw trees around.  There was this house that I have mentioned and next to the house there was a line of trees.  It was a very big house.  The second day went by.  At about two o'clock a certain white man came, he was also a very hefty man wearing the South African uniform and he conversed with this other man and he said I am here to talk to this man today.   We want him to tell us the truth, only the truth, we don't want lies.  If he co-operates with us we will co-operate with him.  And then this other man said to me are you listening to that.  The white man is telling us that he wants to talk to you and should you lie you will be in for it and I said to him I am happy that he got a chance to come and speak to me and this white man got out of this room so to say and I was then unchained and he said to me let's get out of this house and I could feel the stairs as we went down and we went into the other caravan.  I think he wore his balaclava and he unchained me again on the hands.  And he removed this cloth on my face and I was looking around.  There was a small toilet pot in the caravan and there were chains again on the floor where they would fasten you and he said to me you are going to undress, you have to be naked and I followed the rules.  I undressed and they used these cords to fasten me.  There was also a microphone and a set of headset.  The white man was outside the caravan, he was wearing SAP uniform and both my
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legs were fastened to those chains that I have mentioned and I sat on this toilet pot and he was talking to me. He said Khala can you hear me and I said yes I can hear you my boss and he said to me I want us to talk business and he said to me which language do you prefer and I said to him you can speak in Afrikaans because I am conversant in Afrikaans and he said to me Khala I want you to tell me where were you born and I told him and he asked me when were you born, I told him the answer.  He asked me who is your mother, who is your father and how many are you at home.  Who comes just after you, are they all alive.  And I gave him that information.  He went further, he said Khala I want you to tell us now, I want you to say to me you have been to school for so many years and you have to tell me that you worked in different places and I said to him well I went to school for so many years.  It was very surprising because I remember I used Afrikaans as an oppressive language, showing respect.  And I said to him in 1965 I went to a kaffir school and he stopped me, he called me to order.  He said Khala I am sorry it is not a kaffir school, it is a mountain school and I said to him thank you for that correction, I don't know Afrikaans very well.  And I thought that no for that correction he is a very co-operative person.  He doesn't want me to use any dirty language and I talked to him, I told him that I went to the mountain school, from there I went to Boksburg to work and I told him when did I come from Boksburg.  I told him about the business I started.  And he asked me when did I get married, who did I marry, how many children do I have.  And he said to me do you have a passport, I said no sir I don't have a passport at all.  And he said to me if you don't visit South Africa which nearest
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country do you normally visit and I said to him tell me what do you mean and he said I am referring to countries such as Botswana, Swaziland and I said to him I have never been to our neighbouring countries.  He changed the topic, now he was asking me about the issues around the township.