Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-07

MR PRIOR: Mr MacDonald is it correct that you today represent the MacDonald family or the survivors of the MacDonald family?

CRAIG MACDONALD: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: In understand you and your two brothers are present at the hearing?

CRAIG MACDONALD: They are, Alistair and Stewart.

MR PRIOR: Where do you reside at present?

CRAIG MACDONALD: I reside in Durban, my older brother in Pretoria and my younger brother in Cape Town.

MR PRIOR: During 1992 and particular on the 28th November the day of the Golf Club attack, were you resident in King William's Town?

CRAIG MACDONALD: No, I was resident in Gonubie.

MR PRIOR: It's common cause that both your parents died as a result or during this attack is that correct?

CRAIG MACDONALD: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: You have been present during the hearing and you indicated that you wish to address the Committee on behalf of the family is that correct?

CRAIG MACDONALD: That is correct.

MR PRIOR: Please proceed.

CRAIG MACDONALD: Thank you.
	First of all Mr Chairman, without trying to make a mockery of the proceedings, I find it very ironical that at this hearing, people who murder innocent people in golf clubs and in churches can take an oath before Almighty God.  The very murderers who talk about God and his people in their testimonies, how can we believe them no matter what political motive they imply.
	 I certainly do not believe that the full truth has been disclosed in these applications.  In terms of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, yes I can relate to the need to find the truth.  I don't believe we have heard all the truth.  But in terms of reconciliation, I must differ with my colleagues.  The only people I can reconcile with are other people that have been effected by these atrocities.  The Hani family, the Biko family and many, many others, black or white - it's not a racial issue.  Victims - but I can not reconcile with murderers.  I can identify with Mrs Hani and I can respect her stance regarding amnesty for Janus Walus and Clive Derby-Lewis.  What they did was a preplanned murder and I believe the same applies in this instance.
	I do not aspire to communistic or political ideals of any sort but as individual human beings we all share a tremendous sense of loss of our loved ones.  The process of transition to democracy was irreversible at this point in time when the attacks took place. 
	  Notwithstanding the purpose that the Truth and Reconciliation has served for some individuals and please, I'm not on a hatred and bitter path, I'm expressing my feelings as I feel them, there should be no reconciliation in my books.  Instead we should be having a War Crimes Tribunal if this is to be classified as an act during a war time.  The civilised world demands this of the Germans who committed atrocities against innocent Jews and so should we if we are to be seen as a civilised society.
	This atrocity shook the world let alone an entire community, black and white.  The eyes of the civilised world must again know what action this so-called democratic land of ours will take against cold blooded murderers who hide behind political motives.
	I believe that this Commission will be failing in it's duty if amnesty is granted because they may divulge the truth but they have not reconciled victims with perpetrators but rather victims with victims irrespective of their race or political affiliation.  That is all I have to say thank you.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr MacDonald, I understand your anger but I would like just a few clarifications to what you have said.  You told the Committee that you believe that the truth has not been told?
Can you explain that, what more you wanted to hear?

CRAIG MACDONALD: Yes there have been elements of doubt as to dates and whether the attack was postponed, whether this was in fact an attack on a military target with top brass military personnel.  These were innocent people.  There's contradictions by the applicants today in particular the last applicant as to some of the events that happened.  In my heart of hearts and I don't believe I'm on trial here, I do not believe that the whole truth is being told.
	There are names which we don't know, as Mrs Savage said there are still faces, there are still ghosts out there and she's possible more of a victim, in a sense that she was present, than myself who was not actually present on the day.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Well although I differ with you I've heard what you are saying.  Now my following question will be - are you feeling the same anger as you indicated that you can only reconcile with, across the colour line, whoever was a victim?  You have those strong feelings for those people who have been killed whether black and white from, if I may quote the nearest incidents which are still fresh from 1961-60 - Sharpeville Massacre, you come to the ....[inaudible] massacre, you come to the case of the Mklanga's as you have indicated, that's your feeling - you feel that Brian Mitchell and Dirk Coetzee should not have been granted amnesty?

CRAIG MACDONALD: I don't know if they have been granted amnesty.  If I can just put into perspective, mine is a controlled anger, I'm not against black people in any manner and I must make that clear.  My anger is more through a sense of helplessness, that is my anger.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr MacDonald.

MR PRIOR: There's no re-examination.

CHAIRPERSON: May we also extend our sympathy to you and your brothers.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I was informed that Mr Radie would be attending today but he has not turned up.  He however supplied the TRC with a sworn statement some time back and obviously I did not put it up with the bundle, I was anticipating that he would be present.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he on his way?

MR PRIOR: No he's not on his way.
	For what it's worth, it is a sworn statement, he has no objection to amnesty and sets out very briefly his views on the matter.  So I think it was tendered to the TRC after an approach by the Investigating Unit and I think I'm bound to possibly hand it 
up to the Committee with your leave Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you seen it?

MR MBANDAZAYO: I haven't seen it Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You haven't?

MR PRIOR: It's not a long statement and it certainly as I've indicated, it doesn't oppose the amnesty.  Yes I'm going to make a copy available.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, I just browsed through it, I don't have an objection Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: May I hand up copies for the Committee?

MR LAX: We'll make this EXHIBIT E.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman, I do not propose to lead any more evidence in this matter, subject of course to anything that may come to my attention that may alter the situation but I will obviously raise that with you in due course should that ever occur.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We agreed that it would be desirable for us to hear the evidence of Mr Letlapa Mapashlele and I gathered that arrangements, it was hoped that arrangements could be made for us to hear him because I understand from Mr Mbandazayo that he has had problems getting - making arrangements to communicate with him this week and that he desires to consult with him before he gives evidence so that the evidence that he gives can cover not only this but other matters where he was in position of authority and where people acted on his instructions.  It therefore seems impossible for us to continue and complete this hearing this week.  What do you suggest gentlemen?

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I think it would be wise possibly then to determine the availability of Mr Letlape Mapashlele first.  We are sitting in Aliwal North and I understand Mr Letlape is also involved in those matters.