Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

WITNESS:   I cannot understand.  When Roland Petrus shot Dewitty he was caught within a week and sentence.  My brother was shot between 7 o'clock and 10 past seven that night, and the police told us that they couldn't catch anybody.  I feel that is impossible.  It was still light, they could have done something.  And among those four men who had surrounded him somebody had to have pulled the trigger.  The three names which we have added, Reginald Buffel, who is a school headmaster, Lieben Botha, is an officer in the Defence Force.  Edith Botha is his wife.  Their cars were on the scene.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Let's get this correctly now.  What is Martin Woods doing?  Let us get them - Marlin Woods.  Thank you very much for telling us.

WITNESS:   Marlin Woods is not working at present, he has never worked.

COMMISSIONER: Fabian Hardy?

WITNESS:   Fabian Hardy also is not working.  He doesn't work, he is unemployed.

COMMISSIONER: Reginald Buffel.

WITNESS:   He was a teacher at the high school.  He is now principal at the primary school.

COMMISSIONER: What is the name of this primary school?  Do you know it?

WITNESS:   Brandvale Primary.  Brandvale Primary School.

COMMISSIONER: Is it in Kroonstad?  Where is it?  Is it in Kroonstad?

WITNESS:   It's in Brand Park, Kroonstad.

COMMISSIONER: And Lieben Botha, what is he doing?

WITNESS:   He's an officer in the Defence Force in Kroonstad.

COMMISSIONER: Edith Botha, what is she doing?

WITNESS:   She is working at the CNA.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, in Kroonstad.

COMMISSIONER: And Baba Bester?

WITNESS:   He was a police officer.  He is now a security officer.

COMMISSIONER: Where?

WITNESS:   In Kroonstad.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you.  Is there anything you want to tell us?

WITNESS:   May I continue with what I was telling you just now?

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Okay.  I can't understand that the police didn't take any steps.  My feelings are that I think those people are in cahoots with the police, those four people who surrounded my brother, because they are friends of Dewitty, and Dewitty had been in cahoots with the police. Are you suggesting that you think that there was a sort of relationship between the Three Million Gang and the police?   ---   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: Okay.  Any other new thing?

WITNESS:   Let me just think.  (Pause)  In 1995 on a Sunday afternoon the same guys, the same men who was present when Andrew was murdered, except for Reginald Buffel, who was not there, my sister's son, Cassius and Mhlahoti were stabbed and chopped by them in front of my door, and he actually fell down in my yard.  My eldest son of 16 saw this happen.  I was lying in the room and he came and called me, and he told me, "Mother, come and have a look.  Uncle Marlin is busy killing Cassie."  And when I was there he was actually smothering in his blood, and that's when they were running away.  And they said, "We've killed another one of the kaffirs of the Petruses."  I don't know what they had against the Petruses.  Was it because Roland Petrus had shot Dewitty, their friend, or what was happening, but I deduce from this that that was probably the reason why.  There were two police vans that Sunday afternoon, but nothing further came of that matter either.  My other two sisters - my other sister's two sons had also been stabbed.  Also by Dewitty's brother, who had been killed.  And also Bana Woods, Marlin Woods' brother, and nothing came of those cases, either.  I myself took them to the hospital, the two brothers.  And I feel that I don't understand why the police acted like this against the Petrus police (sic), not having been able to do anything to catch Andrew's murderer up to this point.  Last year - no, 19th of March this year Ivodia came and told us that she had seen what had happened, and I myself,  /my sister,

COMMISSIONER: my sister, Mina Mattreus, Philip Petrus and Dennis Bloem had approached Captain Schilling and took her statement, and until this present moment in time nothing has been done about the matter yet.  And I feel very unhappy about this fact.  It is also affecting my marriage, because at presently there is friction in my marriage between my husband and myself because I don't want to go and make peace with the people who had been involved in my brother's death, and I've told him that I won't make peace until justice has been done.  Because they were able to give Roland 14 years for the death of a man who had killed many people in Mokeng, many lives, and he hasn't even been locked up for 24 years.  And therefore I feel that the Commission must please act against these people, because we are totally disheartened about approaching the police because they do virtually nothing when we approach them.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I would like to.  Yes, I would just like to add - my sister has already stated many things, but I don't think this case of Andrew should have been referred to the Commissioner.  I am Roland's father, Roland who had killed Dewitty.  The week when they were looking for Roland they spent a whole week doing so, and the SA Police spent a lot of money, when I was present, where they were looking for Roland.  And they found Roland.  I can't see how they cannot trace Andrew's murderer after they had been given information.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I am Roland's father.

COMMISSIONER: Do you know that your son, Roland, has applied for amnesty?  Did you know that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am aware of that fact that he has applied for amnesty.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you ... (inaudible)

WITNESS:   On the day that Andrew was shot I approached a Captain P Harter, and he was investigating the matter.   The morning when I was standing there on the scene, when they took the body away, I saw that the police was not interested in that case.  I actually had an argument with Senator Bloem, and he said that this van should continue, and I said, "I don't believe this man is interested in the case."

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... you approached Captain who?

WITNESS:   Captain P Harter.  He was in command of the investigating team.  Captain P Harter has now retired.  He got promotion, he and Captain Schilling.  On Roland's case they got promotion to majors, they're both majors, but he has now retired.

COMMISSIONER: And P Harter has retired?

WITNESS:   Yes, P Harter has retired.

COMMISSIONER: Where is Schilling?

WITNESS:   Schilling is still in the police force.  He's a major in the police.  He's in the detectives branch.

COMMISSIONER: Was Schilling also involved in the case?

WITNESS:   Schilling was also involved in the case, yes.

COMMISSIONER: Anything more which is new which would help us?

WITNESS:   No, I think that's all that I have to add.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Your case is a really complicated one, and before I say anything maybe the members of the Committee would like to say something.

UNKNOWN: I would just like to ask one question.  Is Dennis Bloem the same Bloem who is now a senator?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.  That's the senator, Dennis Bloem.

UNKNOWN: I just want to ask one question from Allie.  Allie, what happened to you was very devastating.  You were still very young, and I think your kids, one was one year or the other three years, if I am correct.  How has this affected your life and that of your kids?  We'd like to know more about your health?

WITNESS:   I was very weak, and I still suffer from stress now.  At nights I can't sleep.  An I have a five-year-old daughter who asks me every day, "When is my dad going to come home again?"

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible)  ... treatment for your stress?

WITNESS:   I have been to the doctor.

UNKNOWN: Do you pay for it?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do pay.

UNKNOWN: How is your daughter doing at school?

WITNESS:   It's  my son who is at school.

UNKNOWN: How is your son doing at school?