Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-11

MS THABETHE: Thank you, Mr Chair.
	They've raised concerns that its not quite clear to them why it was necessary for the applicants to have used the kind of method they used, especially because it was indicated clearly that Mr Cele showed or indicated a willingness to co-operate.  I did put these concerns on the applicants and they were here, they heard what the applicants have to say, Mr Chair.
	Secondly, they are also concerned with the violence as they put it - I'm quoting them, the violence that was used in killing him and they also say they don't see why it was really necessary to kill him.  They believe the policemen at that time did have a means to frame him, which could have led to his arrest.  Also I did put this to the applicants and they responded.  The victims were listening.
	Thirdly, Mr Chair, they've raised a concern that the applicants don't show any remorse, they believe that they didn't show that they were sorry.  I also explained to them the difference between what the Act requires so that someone can get amnesty and the issue of remorse.  I did explain that to him, that remorse doesn't form part of the requirements of the Act to get amnesty.  Nevertheless, they requested me to raise this, hence I'm raising it.

CHAIRPERSON: Quite alright.

MS THABETHE: The family also said I must raise it that they hope that it will be known not only in this room, but in public as well, especially where they live in KwaMashu, that Mr Dion Cele was not an askari or an informer, because all along they've been harassed by the community they live in because there were those rumours that Mr Dion Cele was an askari and was an informer.  And it became clear from the evidence of one of the applicants that probably because Mr Sikhakane was not told that Dion Cele refused to become an informer, that's where the rumours could have stemmed from.  	Mr Chair, the rest I leave it in your capable hands.  Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS THABETHE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee will consider all the evidence and the information placed before us and in due course will make known its decision.
	How to accede to one of the requests that has been made by the dependants of the deceased, or rather the family of the deceased, is to me a reasonable request and I do not know how one can accede to that request.  We will have to think of some mechanism which would make it known, when Dion Cele died he remained a loyal MK man, a loyal ANC man and that he never became an informer.
	Now we will have to think about how that can be done, but if there is any way in which that can be done, steps should be taken to achieve that.  You will convey that to your clients.

MS THABETHE: Yes, I think the media can assist us a great deal in that as well, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Right you are.  That brings us to the end of these proceedings.  We will now adjourn and resume at nine thirty tomorrow morning.

MR VISSER: Yes, Mr Chairman, that would be with the application of Mr Tekere - concerning Mr Tekere.

MS THABETHE: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Mr Nel, you're not in that are you?

MR NEL: Mr Chairperson, I - as I've indicated before lunch, do represent the late Col Taylor and the reason why I did not go to my office during lunchtime is because I've had a call from the South African Police informing me that they would - are considering me still carrying on for the late Col Taylor and they will communicate their decision to me in due course.

CHAIRPERSON: Well we've indicated to you what our views on the matter are.

MR NEL: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We'll adjourn and resume at nine thirty tomorrow morning.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, before you rise - I hate to give the impression that I want to be here longer than is necessary, but may I place something before you for your consideration.  We've raised this before.  The way in which matters are running, Mr Chairman, and we already anticipated this, we'll probably be finished by lunchtime tomorrow with Tekere, then we're going to have a half a day which - and a half a day on Friday, assuming that you will be adjourning at 1 o'clock on Friday as is usual, which makes up a day.  If it's possible that the Ninella matter might possibly be moved forward ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Will you consider that?

MR VISSER: ... to tomorrow ...(intervention)

MS THABETHE: Yes, Mr Chair, coincidentally I had drafted a suggested roll.  I was going to discuss it with my learned friends after this.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  At least you'll make the necessary enquiries and see if it is possible to do so.

MS THABETHE: Thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS