Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-12

CHAIRPERSON: Can we have the next witness, Mrs Patricia Gxidi.  Mrs Shumikazi 
Sara Jako.  Our witnesses for today, these are our last witnesses.  We would like to 
ask Reverend Xundu to help you take an oath.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairperson.  I will start with you Patricia Gxidi.

PATRICIA GXIDI: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mam.  You will make a testimony under oath.

SHUMIKAZI SARA JAKO: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mam.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs June Crichton.

JUNE CRICHTON: Can you put earphones on Mrs Gxidi, please.  Can you hear me 
Mrs Gxidi?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Yes, I can hear you.

JUNE CRICHTON: Would you mind if I called you Phumla?

PATRICIA GXIDI: I do not mind.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much.  Phumla, you are going to tell us about an 
event that happened to you in July of 1985 when you were on your way back from the 
funeral service for the Cradock Four.  You were travelling from Cradock back to 
Queenstown and at that time, according to your testimony, you were four months, no, 
I am sorry, five months pregnant.  Is that correct?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Yes, that is correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: If I may I would like to lead you in your questions so that, in the 
questions I put to you so that we keep the order of your story, which is very 
important, in order.  So I will ask you questions and interrupt you occasionally, if I 
may.  The first thing I want to check with you is that the bus was stopped at a 
roadblock.  Is that correct?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Yes, that is correct.

JUNE CRICHTON: That was at Whittle-Sea?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Yes.

JUNE CRICHTON: Who was it who took you off the bus?

PATRICIA GXIDI: The Ciskeian soldiers.

JUNE CRICHTON: And at about what time of the day was that?

PATRICIA GXIDI: We were coming, we left Cradock after five.  It was just before eight.

JUNE CRICHTON: Now I would like you to explain in your own words to us exactly 
what happened when they took you off that bus, remembering that you were four 
months, five months pregnant at the time.

PATRICIA GXIDI: When we were about to arrive at Whittle-Sea a lot of soldiers came 
around and they stopped the bus asking us where we were coming from.  We told 
them that we were coming from Cradock.  They asked us which funeral, whose 
funeral we attended.  We said that we were coming from Matthew Goniwe's and 
others funeral.  They asked us why we left funerals in our area and attended funerals in 
Cradock.  They said that we knew everything that was happening there.  They asked 
us to sing songs which were sung in that funeral.  We sang church songs and we told 
the that Mxenge was a speaker and they took us out of the bus and they took 
pamphlets in our bus and t-shirts.  
 They told us to lie down on our stomachs.  They hit us.  Some of them had 
hose pipes.  They spread water to us.  Two of us were pregnant and these soldiers 
wanted to kick us so that we can lose our children.  Soldiers were kicking us.  They 
were riding on top of us.

JUNE CRICHTON: Phumla, can I interrupt you to ask you just to make sure that we 
have this on record.  Are you saying that they knew that there were two pregnant 
women there and that even though you were lying on your stomachs, pregnant as you 
were, they were kicking you?

PATRICIA GXIDI: People said that there were people who were pregnant and they said 
that they want these pregnant women, because they are going to give birth to leaders.  
This happened until two in the morning and the police from Queenstown, White police 
from Queenstown came.  They had a list wanting people who attended the funeral.  
They found others, but they did not find other people who were in the list.  They asked 
us one by one questions about our interests to go to the funeral.  I told them that my 
parents are in Cradock and I was studying in Cradock, I knew these people.  They 
then assaulted me.
 There was one police by the name of Wanders, who was a Ciskeian police, 
from Cradock who was necklaced.  They then said that I was one of the people in 
Cradock who necklaced this police.  They then assaulted me.  After that they released 
us in the morning.  We were swollen.  We went back home.  Some of them were 
arrested due to that list.  I went to the doctor, because I was five months pregnant.  
My legs were swollen up and I was working for Buffalo Timber.  I did not go to work 
on that particular day.  I stayed until the time for me to give birth.  I gave birth.  
 When my child was growing up we did not see anything wrong with this child, 
but when the child started to attend school he was not grasping anything.  He was 
doing sub, standard A and I changed schools.  I took him to Dumangeni Mental 
Hospital in Queenstown to be examined.  A psychiatrist was called and he said that 
this situation might be caused by the fact that I was fighting with my child's, child while 
I was pregnant.  I then said that was not the case, but I told him the whole story.  My 
child's father, my child is 11 years old now.  I took him to the special school in town.  
He would tear up his clothes at Dumangeni Mental Hospital.  
 He came back at home one day and he was injured in his body.  When I took 
him to the clinic the nurses said that I was careless about the child.  I told them that I 
was working, I could not look after him all the time.  In this special school here in 
town they said that he got onto the tree and he fell, he broke his arm.  He does 
anything, he, you would get there and he would be bleeding, you will not know what 
had happened.  I have to look after him.  If something can be done for this child.  He 
does anything, even to other people.  I am scared that people are going to hurt him.

JUNE CRICHTON: Is he your only child Phumla?

PATRICIA GXIDI: I have two children.  My eldest is 25 years of age.

JUNE CRICHTON: And the other one is the, is this child that you have been telling us 
about?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Yes, is the 11 year old.

JUNE CRICHTON: I just want to ask you a couple of questions now.  You said at the 
time you were working for Buffalo Timber.  Did you continue to work for them until 
you had the child?

PATRICIA GXIDI: I was not working there all the time.  It was a part-time job.

JUNE CRICHTON: And until he went to pre-primary school were you unaware that 
there were problems in his mental health?

PATRICIA GXIDI: I was not aware.  I thought he was just very naughty.  I was told to 
stop shouting at him.  I must accept him as he is.

JUNE CRICHTON: When you consulted with the psychiatrist and he told you what he 
did and then you told him the story of what had happened to you when you were taken 
off that bus and the beating and assaulting that you had, was his opinion changed, what 
did he say then?

PATRICIA GXIDI: He did not say anything except that he was going to try to put him into 
a special school.  He took a whole lot of toys, because I told that this child was 
retarded mentally.  He put a whole lot of toys before him from a year old childrens' 
toys.  He was about eight or nine years.  He left, he did not enjoy the toys that were 
appropriate for his age group.

JUNE CRICHTON: Phumla, I think what I am trying to get at and what I want you to 
answer for me is have you ever had any medical opinion given to you that the reason 
why this child is as he is, is because of what happened to you when you were pregnant 
on that bus?

PATRICIA GXIDI: Well, what I told them is that I never fought with the child's father.  I 
told them that I had been beaten when I was coming back from Cradock.  They did 
not say anything after that.

JUNE CRICHTON: Phumla, I thank you and the last question that I need to ask you 
then is I see in your statement you are asking for assistance that this child, Lwando, 
will be able to attend some kind of special school and have a suitable education.  Is 
that your request?