Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LAX: (Incomplete) ... it is correct as far as I am aware that your attorneys made a case against the policemen involved, for which you suffered, and that you won that case and received certain monies for that.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Ja, that is correct, even though the conditions at that particular time were ... (incomplete)

MR LAX: We understand that aspect, but just to confirm that you did actually get some compensation.  And, Sipho, is it correct that after you were shot and assaulted by the police on this last occasion which you have told us about you were - you have said in your statement that you were so badly injured that in fact you were unable to walk for two or three years, and you had to relearn the process of walking.  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Ja, that is correct, because right now there are many things - some I can't reveal them, but I can mention a few.  I can't run, number one.  Number two, I have got some sort of a night blindness now.  Like I can't reveal the rest, but quite a lot has happened out of that.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR LAX: I wasn't prepared to ask questions because I thought that we don't have enough time, but I am forced to ask one or two questions.  I would like to ask Mrs Gabela that in most people that you know what made you know specific Jerome Mncwabe?

WITNESS:   He was the member of the IFP.

MR LAX: How come you knew him?  Was he your neighbour?  Why Jerome, because there were so many members of Inkatha?

WITNESS:   Firstly, he knew my husband.  In other words they were not close friends but they used to know each other very well, and before this incident they used to be friends, close friends with my husband.

MR LAX: Was your husband a member of Inkatha?

WITNESS:   No, my husband wasn't, but after he was tortured and harassed by Inkatha people he decided that, "I am going to join UDF, and you as well if you like you can come and join UDF. Because I am the Zulu I would like to be Inkatha, but because Inkatha have tortured me so much I would rather join UDF."  After Mandela spoke my husband went and joined the ANC.  His card came after he was dead, but with me I never joined any organisation up until this day.

MR LAX: I would like to thank you, Mrs Gabela and Sipho.  Sipho, I feel for you because you are still young, and it's so sad to know what you have things that you just wouldn't like to talk about them.  But we are also glad that you've at least came forward and you said whatever you can tell us.  We thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: (Incomplete) ... before you give that evidence you are required to take the oath.  Can I ask you to stand please and to take the oath.

SYLVASIA NGCOBO: (Sworn, States)

MR LYSTER: I am going to ask my colleague, Mrs Gcabashe, to assist you with your evidence.  Thank you, Mrs Gcabashe.

MRS GCABASHE: Good day, Mrs Ngcobo.  I do realise in your statement that you are affectionately called Gingile.  Is that your name?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's my name.

MRS GCABASHE: We know that you have come here to relate to us what happened to your and your family.  Can we just start by saying that we do sympathise with you, that we have gone through a time that had unbelievable tortures.  We hope that your coming here will make you see that whatever happened in the past is something that nobody liked.  Now we sympathise with you.  I want to get a few things from you so that we may be able to get as to who you are, where you come from.  In your statement you said you have got two children.  Are they the only ones who are alive, or there are other children?  If you can't hear me please tell me that you can't hear.

WITNESS:   Ja, please speak up a little bit.

MRS GCABASHE: I said in your statement you pointed out that you have got two sons.  Now I am asking as to whether you have any other children?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have other children.  All in all they are five.  I have got three boys and two girls.

MRS GCABASHE: Three boys and two girls.  Just give me the names of all those who are not here.

WITNESS:   It's Bheki.  I do have Bhekisisa with me in my list.  The other one is Mzo.

MRS GCABASHE: And who else?

WITNESS:   As well as Thandokuhle.

MRS GCABASHE: And who else?

WITNESS:   Dudu.  Philile.

MRS GCABASHE: Amongst your children ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Could you please speak up.

MRS GCABASHE: Amongst your children are there any who are still attending school?

WITNESS:   The last one has just finished matric, but she isn't working.

MRS GCABASHE: What about the others?

WITNESS:   The eldest one is Dudu.  He is working for the Department of Justice.  He's the only one who is working.  I don't have any other children attending school.

MRS GCABASHE: Now, you've come to tell us about the harassment that you went through that culminated to your husband's death.  Can you please tell us how old he was at the time of his death?

WITNESS:   He was born in 1931.  I am sorry, born in 1938, 15 January.

MRS GCABASHE: Let me just remind you a little bit.  In your statement you started by saying that you've come to talk about your two sons, Bhekizazi and well as Mzo Ngcobo.  I would like you to just tell us briefly as to how they were harassed.

WITNESS:   Bhekizazi Benjamin is my husband and not my son.  Bheki is the one who caused the death of his father, and Mzo comes after Bheki.

MRS GCABASHE: Just give us a brief history.

WITNESS:   There was a knock at the door at quarter to 10 in the evening.  It was on a Monday.  When they knocked at the door my husband was already in the bed and I was asleep.  When my husband had just put on his pyjamas, getting into bed, those people knocked.  They said, "Please do open us.  We've brought a message with regard to your eldest son, Bheki."  Then he went out and said probably they had killed him because they had been looking for him for the past few times.  Then he went to open the door.  Then he said, "I am not going to switch on the light inside."  Then he went to the door to open it.  As he opened the door we heard a gunshot.  The bullet went in on the right-hand side.  I could hear that loud bang and I went to investigate.  I fell on the dressing table, and there was a second gunshot and I ended up crawling.  When I was crawling towards him, when I approached him he had already fallen, and one bullet whizzed past my head and it went through the door, went through to the wardrobe, and got into a pocket, a jacket pocket which was inside the wardrobe.  I crawled towards my husband.  He was lying there on the floor bleeding profusely.  I screamed very loudly.  He kept on telling me not to cry.  He said I should bring his rosary.  I took his rosary and gave it to him, and I shouted for the neighbours to come and help me.  The neighbours were very scared to come and help me, because at that time people didn't want to get involved.  Once you go out you get killed.  So one of my neighbours came out.  That was Mr Sithole.  He is the one who took my husband with his work truck and took him to the hospital in Edendale. That's where he got admitted.  He was operated on.  He was very injured.  Thereafter he stayed throughout August, and then on the 24th of September, it was on a Thursday, he died.  At the time when he died it started raining.  That was on the 25th on a Friday.  That's when the Aitken Bridge was overflowing with water and cars couldn't pass.

MRS GCABASHE: Let me just ask, when did he go to the hospital and when did he die?  Did you get a death certificate?