Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-03

THOMAS MANTHATA: Which means the last time you saw Obaba Skosana was when they drove you out of the house, that is him in one or he in one van and you in another?

MRS B SKOSANA: Yes, that is when they took us out of the house.  They put us in separate vans.  That was the last time I saw him alive.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So the next you found him lying dead in the house?

MRS B SKOSANA: Yes, that was at my home just on the stoep outside.  The gate was locked when we left, but they broke it so that they can go and put him on the stoep.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Have you got an idea, Mama, what position he held in the KwaNdebele Government offices here?

MRS B SKOSANA: Obaba?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Obaba.

MRS B SKOSANA: He did not have any position.  He was just an ordinary person.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So then what did you do with the corpse when you found it lying there?

MRS B SKOSANA: We called the police and they came to remove his body.  They took him to the mortuary.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At this time, perhaps, I would love to give Selina a chance to tell us what she saw or what she experienced that night.  Selina, can you take the mike?

MS S SKOSANA: My brothers, it was at 11 o' clock when they came back from school.  We were still at primary school and they were in high school.  We were just coming for break and they were just at home.  Mr father was also at home because he was sick.  My father asked them why are you so early from MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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school?  They said to him we were asking to have afternoon studies at our school, but Imbokhoto does not want us to have afternoon studies.  As we were talking in the house we decided to leave because we were still at primary school and my elder brothers stayed at home.  I think it was this discussed that they should go to the Tribal Authorities, but as we were on our way to school we saw that the high school pupils were not getting into the school yards.  There was not any way for us to go into school anyway.  We decided go back home.
 When I arrived at home, it was at about four o' clock I took the axe to go and chop wood.  Even before I could finish chopping the wood a car drove in, many cars driven by Imbokhoto members stopped at home and I left chopping the wood.  I ran to the stoep where my mother and them were sitting and I took the child.  They were talking and my father said to them, please, do not get into my yard because I am the owner here and I pay the rent.  They did not know what to do.  They wanted to get into the yard, but they stood back and one of them forcefully entered the yard and my father fought with him.  My mother went into the house to get my father a weapon.  They tried to fight.  We thought that they were driving away, but from far away another car approached and they started shooting.  They started pushing the doors and my parents were already in the house at that time blocking the doors and realising that the doors could not get open.  They jumped over the roof and they got into the house through the ceiling.  They climbed on top of my father's car and all the windows were broken.  My mother took the child from me and my mother said to them, I am leaving with this grandchild of mine.  I said to mum, mum 
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take the child, at least they will save you.  
 Then they all left.  We decided to go to our neighbours to spend the night there.  At about 12 o' clock, midnight, we were told that my mother had arrived and she had been taken to another house.  Very early, at about two o' clock in the morning our next door neighbour said to us there are people getting into your home, do you want to peep through.  We said, no, we are scared, we do not want to.  At about five o' clock in the morning when it was light we said let us go home and find out who are these people who were getting into the house.  
 There was a white van at the gate and we went into the house.  Just before we could get into the house my father was lying on the stoep.  He was already dead and we said let us go and find out where mum is.  On our way we met her and we said to her, mum, father is at home and he is dead.  We all went back home.  The police were called to remove the corpse.  That is it.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How old were you at that time Selina?

MS S SKOSANA: I was 13 years old.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And all this time where were your brothers on this night?

MS S SKOSANA: They ran away, they were in hiding.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How old were they?  Have you got an idea?

MS S SKOSANA: I cannot remember very well.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And how many brothers have you got?  How many brothers were there?

MS S SKOSANA: Two of them were at a secondary school and it was myself and the other three were in a primary school.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What are you doing now, Selina?

MS S SKOSANA: I am just at home.
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THOMAS MANTHATA: You are just at home and the two, the other brothers, are they working or are they still at school?

MS S SKOSANA: One of them is working and the other one is unemployed.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I do not know whether it could be you or Betty.  Do you have an idea of, do you still remember what happened on the day of the funeral?

MS S SKOSANA: The family was gathered and the soldiers arrived and they said, this is a large number of mourners.  We only want 50 people.  We said to them there is no way to dictate terms to us, we have a very large family.  The comrades were in the yard and they were drinking tea.  The soldiers arrived and they said can you please disperse, we only want 50 people.  The comrades were stubborn and they were promised teargas and one of the comrades said let us go, it does not help to be stubborn because they will end up shooting us.  The boys left and the soldiers left.  The comrades realised that the soldiers were gone and they came back.  The soldiers realised that they went back to the house and they threw their teargas.
 Another man stood up and he wanted to talk to the soldiers to tell them that the man who had just passed away is the owner of the house and friends and relatives are here to bury, but the police could not listen.  They threw teargas.  The soldiers picked the boys up and they took them to Kwaggafontein.  On the day of the funeral we were driving in my father's car and we were on our way from the cemetery.  Teargas was thrown at us by the soldiers.  They kept on shooting their teargas.  We were many in the car and they shot at the car.  The driver of the car was a very experienced driver and he dodged their teargas canisters.  
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THOMAS MANTHATA: You do not know what happened to the comrades and everybody in the village after dispersing from the funeral?

MS S SKOSANA: No.

THOMAS MANTHATA: That you do not know.  Do not worry about that.  Okay.  I think I will stop there.  Over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Manthata.  Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Selina or Mrs Skosana, were your children at Manliewetu High School?

MRS B SKOSANA: Yes, I had a boy and a girl at Manlenie.

MS SEROKE: When your husband went to enquire about the harassment to the children what was happening?

MRS B SKOSANA: No, the Imbokhoto was assaulting the children.

MS SEROKE: What was the reason behind this assault?

MRS B SKOSANA: No, they were assaulted for asking afternoon studies and their reply was this assault.

MS SEROKE: Do you perhaps have an idea of the demands of the school kids?  Maybe the demands that were written on paper requesting them to have a meeting with Imbokhoto.  Do you not have an idea?