Human Rights Violation Hearings — Worcester — 1996-06-24

MR DYANTYI: Your question is very important because it should be directed to Van Loggerenberg and Van Heerden.   The Bible says you should forgive so that you can also be forgiven, we have a prayer which is the Lord's prayer, where he said forgive those who have sinned against you.  I would like to appear, not for me only, they have killed so many people, their bullets have been used for sufficiently, they should be satisfied with themselves.
 Some of - the people thought that they would be protected by the apartheid system.  I am not a racist, you  can see that the table here has people who are white people but they are hard, it can be regarded as black because of the support that they give to the black people.  Braam Fischer and others, and Slovo are such people.  How could we make it happen that those people could be awake today so that they can see the work that they have done, so that today we are here.  It is the work of God, its through the will of God that we are here today.
But I can state also that the evil is still amongst some of the people, there is good, there is bad and people have a choice to make.  So we can regard other people to be working for the evil or the devil.  But I believe that if I could see those people, if they could come and confess I think everybody could be relieved and the land could be healed.  This pain that we have been enduring is just like cancer.
 Before we can reach the judgement day, I promise you this land will never be healed before those people and the perpetrators could come here and confess.  God never created them to be evil that I am certain about.

WENDY ORR: Thank you very much.

MR DYANTYI: Thank you - thank you.

DR BORAINE: Are there any further questions.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you Chairperson the comments really - I would like to say shedding tears is very important at times, it is very difficult for us to control our emotions, but if you see somebody sharing what experience she had, you cannot control yourself successfully at times.  You gave us a good and clear picture of the type of torture which was experienced by many people.
 And some of the people were responsible for the lowering of the dignity of some of our people.  We know that you have experienced this humiliation and we know that those people are dehumanising themselves because if they can do that to do, it shows that they are just like beasts.  You've expressed yourself very well by saying the  devil is just walking around.  It is not very easy to forgive a person.
 This is not a easy thing onto the journey we begin only when the other person  demonstrates the willingness, to acknowledge that they have [indistinct] as well.  I just wanted to make a few comments I don't want to take over from the Chairperson or the leader, thank you very much.

DR BORAINE: There is just before I conclude today's hearing,  just two quick questions, first I wasn't quite clear when you saw or dr Van Heerden saw you, can you try and think back was it in the prison cell or was it in the office, was it in the hospital, where did you - where did he actually see you when you were - were nearly dead.

MR DYANTYI: Thank you very much sir, I would like to explain this, so that everybody can understand what I am saying.  The reason for these people to call the doctor is when they realised that the condition in which I was, was needing doctor's attention.  And they realised that it was due to their  torture, they have taken me from the cells and then taken me to their office, in other words the office of the security officers.  And then that's where they alternated trying to revive me.  Some of them were asking who did this to this person and you could see that everybody was surprised about my condition.  And that is when the doctor came in, I understand they called the doctor at the time.  When he came in, he stated that he wants me one security officer and himself only in the cells and the others should go out.  That's when they closed the door and then they said all these things I've mentioned.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much that's very clear - just a last question on that is dr Van Heerden still in Worcester or do you know where he is?

MR DYANTYI: I think he is still here in Worcester and Van Loggerenberg is still here.  he is the head of the Security Branch, I always see him around.

DR BORAINE: What is astonishing I think for all of us on the Commission is that in the midst of living or  reliving your own experiences which are quite horrifying you are also able to stand back and try to understand it and try to suggest the way  forward.  That takes a great deal of human courage and strength and you've been a great inspiration to us and I think to many others.
It's not easy in the mist of your own suffering and reliving to try and understand and suggest a way ahead.  We are very grateful to you and before you leave, perhaps I could just quietly end the proceedings today by saying that yet again we have sat through a full day where we have listened to personal stories relating to killing, to death - to torture to solitary confinement, to brutality, to assault and it's very difficult to believe that through all of this, there can come some hope.
 But the President of the country appointed this Commission not to heal the country but to play a small part in trying to bring about healing a new human rights culture, a new respect for law and in the process of ordinary people and extraordinary people telling their stories, this is a small part of a contribution  which I believe can help as we built a future.
We are very grateful to all of you who have come but we are especially grateful to the witnesses, to the survivors, to the families, to the friends and to people who stood by them today and of course for many days.  We will adjourn now and we will resume the sitting at nine o'clock tomorrow morning, to save Wendy let me ask you please not to take the earphones with you, they have to be recharged there is nothing you can do with them, just quietly leave them on the chair so that all of you can come back and listen again.  We thank you for your attendance, and this day is adjourned.