Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-30

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: We took an action because we were defending ourselves, it was not out intention to attack them.

ADV DE JAGER: What time did this incident take place?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: It was in the afternoon, I do not specifically remember the time.

ADV DE JAGER: Was it dark or was it not yet dark?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: It was not yet dark.

ADV DE JAGER: What time did you arrive at the tavern?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: Round about past 10 to 11.

ADV DE JAGER: And were you drinking from that time until late in the afternoon?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: Yes, but not until late.

ADV DE JAGER: When they arrived there you were still busy drinking?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: Yes, we were still drinking.

ADV DE JAGER: Did the alcohol affect you?

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: No, I was not influenced by liquor.  At the time when the deceased arrived myself and comrade were playing pool, we were still playing pool.

ADV DE JAGER: But in paragraph 4 on page 21, you state
"I was sitting and drinking my bottles"

STEPHEN MQEKETSI MONYAKE: We were playing and at the same time drinking.

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR MTHEMBU: None, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Any witnesses that you wanted to call?

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chair, given the fact that Mr Thulo and Mr Bloem testimony won't be necessary, there aren't any further witnesses to be called, thank you and that will be the applicant's case.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: Would Mr Bloem or Mr Thulo be in a position to give evidence about the deceased himself and anything connected with this very incident or wouldn't they be in a position to give it?

MR MTHEMBU: I believe Mr Bloem could to an extent be able to give evidence about the deceased himself but I'm not certain if he could on the incident itself.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want to find out from him whether he knows - if there's anything about this incident?

MR MTHEMBU: Yes, Mr Chair, with your indulgence.  Mr Chair, thank you for the indulgence, Mr Bloem has indicated that he could tell the Committee about the deceased himself but with regard to the incident his testimony would be hearsay because it would be what he heard from the applicant's attorney in the court accord.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't - unless you feel otherwise, we don't think that his evidence will take the matter any further because I am sure it is a - there is no dispute about the fact that the deceased was a member of the Three Million gang but on other aspects, circumstances under which this particular happened he cannot be of assistance can he?  The incident, when these people met, how they met, what happened - Mr Bloem would not be able to know.  Are you listening to me through the interpretation Mr Mthembu?

MR MTHEMBU: Correct, Mr Chairman.  My apologies Mr Chair.  Mr Chair, what he has said to me was that what he would testify about with regard to the incident will be what he had heard from the applicant's attorney in the court accord.  I'm not certain if the Committee would admit such hearsay evidence or not?

CHAIRPERSON: No, we can't hear such evidence, it's hearsay evidence of the worst kind.

MR MTHEMBU: In that regard then Mr Chair, I do not have any further witnesses or witness to call that could shed more light with regard to the incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the applicant's case therefore?

MR MTHEMBU: That is correct Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, are there witnesses that you would like to call?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, then we - you are excused Mr Monyake, you can stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mthembu, would you prefer that we take an adjournment now for 15 minutes or so, so that you - it's just about 11 o'clock, instead of quarter past 11 we can adjourn now if you want to have a short consultation with Mr Mohase?

MR MTHEMBU: I would appreciate it Mr Chair and the Committee members.

CHAIRPERSON: Then we'll adjourn for 15 minutes, we'll be back at about 11H20.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS