Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR BERGER: What was Themba Khoza's position at the time?

MR MKHIZE: He was a senior leader in Johannesburg, in the Johannesburg area, not here in the Vaal Triangle.

MR BERGER: He used to come to kwaMadala before the massacre to speak to you, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: You knew where to get hold of him, you knew that he was a senior leader, correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I did know.

MR BERGER: Why didn't you contact him and say Mr Khoza, I am having problems here at kwaMadala, I need your assistance?

MR MKHIZE: With regard to IFP leadership, it is not easy for you to actually inform leaders that you intend killing some people.  You only have to discuss such matters with people at your level.
	Mr Khoza was a senior leader, it was not something that would have been easy for me to do.  He would have regarded that as disrespect and I could have been disciplined for that.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand your evidence, the residents of kwaMadala hostel, had been complaining for some time about the fact that they can't leave the hostel and they are being attacked, whenever they are out of the hostel.

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When this was first brought to your attention, this is now this complaint, who did you discuss it with?

MR MKHIZE: I called a meeting and we discussed the matter with the residents of the hostel.  I also informed Prince Vanana Zulu and the Prince said I should actually hold on because he was going to communicate with leaders in Boipatong, so that ordinary members would be called upon to stop the fighting.

CHAIRPERSON: What about the members of the Committee of which you were a member?

MR MKHIZE: We did not discuss this in the committee.  I thought it was better to inform the Prince.

CHAIRPERSON: What position did he have at the hostel at the time, was he the most senior IFP member?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, he was the most senior person at the hostel.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Berger.

MR BERGER: Thank you Chairperson.  How long before the attack, did Prince Vanana Zulu leave the hostel?

MR MKHIZE: It could have been a week or two, I am not quite certain.  I do know that it was not less than a week, before the attack was launched.

MR BERGER: Mr Victor Mthembu has told this Committee that he saw Prince Vanana Zulu leaving the hostel to catch a taxi, during the afternoon of the 17th of June 1992.

MR MKHIZE: That was not true.

MR BERGER: Prince Zulu has left you with instructions, not to launch an attack, this is now on Boipatong, this is now a week, possibly two weeks before the actual attack on Boipatong, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: He did not issue an instruction that we should not attack on a specific date, but he asked us to wait until such time that he managed to communicate with leaders from Boipatong.

MR BERGER: Yes, now you have said a week, possibly two weeks before the attack, he had already left the hostel.  My question to you is, a week possibly two weeks before the attack, you had already decided to attack Boipatong, correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, because of the suffering of the people in the hostel.

MR BERGER: Now, if Prince Vanana Zulu has told you don't launch an attack, and he leaves, and the pressure on you gets too great that you have to launch an attack because otherwise you would be killed, why did you make no attempt to discuss the situation either with members of your own committee or with any other leader of the IFP, whether in the hostel or outside, such as Mr Themba Khoza?  Why did you not speak to anyone?  To be clear, not to say we are going to attack, but to say there is this pressure for us to attack, what can I do, can you help me?  Why didn't you do that?

MR MKHIZE: Mr Khoza was not a person who was readily available to us at any time.  He is the one who usually came to us to inform us of various matters.

MR BERGER: Did you make any attempt to contact or to speak to any other leader of the IFP, either in the hostel or outside  or in Johannesburg, did you make any attempt to do so?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

MR BERGER: Why not?

MR MKHIZE: It did not occur to me to do so.  After informing the Prince, I thought that there was no other person that I should inform, he was the one who would have informed other leaders.

MR BERGER: With respect Mr Mkhize, that can't be so because he had gone on leave, he had gone home, and you knew that.  He wasn't going to inform anyone?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I think I made a mistake by not thinking of telling any other leader.

MR BERGER: Would I be correct to say that in your mind, at the time you decided that you had no choice, but to launch an attack on Boipatong, it was your view that such an attack was not in the best interest of the IFP?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Despite that, you failed to call upon any other leader of the IFP, including Mr Themba Khoza for their assistance, to prevent what you knew was not in the interest of the IFP, would that be fair?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: I put it to you Mr Mkhize, that that is not correct and that, let me be specific on what is not correct, you launched that attack because you had the permission, the authority of other leaders of the IFP, including Mr Themba Khoza and you knew that the attack was sanctioned by the IFP, isn't that right?

MR MKHIZE: No, that is what you wish for, it is not so.

MR BERGER: I put it to you, let me ask you this, at the time of the attack, were you a loyal and disciplined member of the IFP?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR BERGER: I put it to you that as a loyal and disciplined member of the IFP, you would not have participated in conduct which you knew, was not in the interest of the IFP, unless you had the authority from the IFP to do it?

MR MKHIZE: I did mention that I did this because of the pressure that I was experiencing.

MR BERGER: This pressure was building up over many weeks prior to the attack, correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Now, would you like to take a break Mr Mkhize, are you tired?  Are you tired at the moment, would you like to take a break?

MR MKHIZE: Just continue asking your questions.

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, just a point which I would like to clarify.    You say that you were the leader of the AmaButho, who chose you to be the leader?

MR MKHIZE: I was actually elected by AmaButho themselves.

ADV SIGODI: If you can just clarify to this Committee, not all of us are Zulu speaking, what is a AmaButho, is it the military wing of the IFP or how do you define AmaButho?

MR MKHIZE: I would describe them as protectors, not necessarily for the IFP, but for Zulu's in general.
	But we are divided in groups, when we attend ceremonial gatherings, I would lead the AmaButho.

ADV SIGODI: How many groups were there in kwaMadala hostel?

MR MKHIZE: There was just one.

ADV SIGODI: And did it consist of all the men, or how was it formed, who would be a member of AmaButho?  Would it be all the men in the hostel?

MR MKHIZE: Every male person at the hostel, was part of AmaButho.   There would be differentiation along the lines of youth, and senior members, but in cases where we went to rallies or maybe to ceremonial gatherings, to the king himself, we would go as one group, AmaButho.

ADV SIGODI: What were your duties as a leader of that?

MR MKHIZE: For instance, if we were going to attend a ceremonial gathering, I would advise them on what we were going to do.  	I would also act as a mediator if there was a quarrel amongst members of AmaButho.

ADV SIGODI: Thank you.

MR BERGER: Thank you.  Mr Mkhize, how were the AmaButho subdivided within the hostel?  You had the whole structure of the AmaButho and then how were they placed into smaller groups, if that did happen?

MR MKHIZE: It was not subdivided.  There would for instance be a youth wing or maybe there would be other groups, but the entire group of men was AmaButho, they were known as AmaButho.