Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR MKHIZE: No, it did not occur to me.

MR BERGER: Mr Nosenga says that at that meeting on the Sunday, the residents were told that in this attack on Boipatong, everyone was going to be killed, women and children included?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember that.

MR BERGER: I am not going to go through the further particulars of that meeting, save to say that he says that at meeting, there were no police officers present.
	Were you an Induna Mr Mkhize?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR BERGER: During the criminal trial, you will remember that Prince Vanana Zulu gave evidence and at page 3126 of the criminal record, he was asked the following question:  Accused 9 and that was you at the trial, told the Court that there in the hostel, he is an Induna, Mr Mkhize, and Prince Vanana Zulu's answer was no, I don't know him as an Induna.
	Do you dispute that?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I dispute that.  I am an Induna at the hostel.

MR BERGER: Prince Vanana Zulu also was asked, or he said that you were correct when you told the Court that you took over certain functions from him, the functions that he had previously fulfilled in the hostel, you took over from him?  That is correct is it not?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: That is what he said at the trial.  What he also said at the trial, he was asked the question can Mr Mkhize, this is now accused 9, on his own, can he take decisions in the hostel about when a meeting should be held.  I hope I have translated it correctly.  I am getting the nod, so my translation is right.
	He was asked that question and his answer was no, telling the Court that you had no authority to decide on your own when meetings in the hostel would be called, is that right?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And that would mean that you had no authority in IFP structures, you had no authority from the IFP to call a meeting of the hostel, on your own, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And so are you therefore saying that when you called the meeting in the stadium on the evening of the 17th of June 1992, prior to the attack on Boipatong, you had no authority from the IFP to call that meeting, correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct, but then the Prince was not present.

MR BERGER: Even in the absence of the Prince, you had no authority, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And everybody who attended the meeting, would have known that, am I right?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Mr Nosenga goes on, page 20 paragraph 9, to say on the day of the attack, we alerted by a trumpet signal at about six to seven o'clock.  Is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: We gathered at the stadium at the hostel area, correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: When Themba Khoza arrived at the hostel, he gave certain commands to the Indunas who informed us that Khoza had obtained the guns and some of them were from Peens.  Is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is not true.

MR BERGER: He says that Peens came to the hostel on the day of the attack, together with his colleague Shaka.  Did you see Mr Peens at the hostel on the day of the attack, this was now before the attack, I would assume?

MR MKHIZE: I did say that I don't know that Mr Peens.

MR BERGER: Did you see any white man at the hostel on the day of the attack?

MR MKHIZE: I did say that I do not remember any meeting being held in the presence of a white person.

MR BERGER: I am not talking about a meeting now, I am talking about the simple presence of a white man who arrived in a white Opel Monza on the day of the attack, at the hostel.

MR MKHIZE: No.

MR BERGER: He says he came with his colleague, a policeman by the name of Shaka.  Did you know a black policeman by the name of Shaka?

MR MKHIZE: No.

MR BERGER: And he says that on that day, he saw Peens hand over money to Victor Keswa.  From that I infer and I am asking you, that Victor Keswa was indeed present at the hostel on the 17th of June 1992?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not remember really.

MR BERGER: You say you do not remember, but do I take it when you say that, it means you cannot dispute as well?

MR MKHIZE: I disagree with that statement, I do not recall seeing Keswa on that day.

MR BERGER: But you do not dispute that Keswa was there, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: I disagree with that.

MR BERGER: He goes on in paragraph 11 to say that at the stadium, we were told that if we drank muti, we would become brave and strong.  We drank and also poured muti on our weapons.  Is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: It was a medicine called Ntelezi.  This medicine is the kind of medicine that we use often times at the hostel.

MR BERGER: What is the Ntelezi used for?

MR MKHIZE: When AmaButho goes out for whatever reason, we use this.  We still use this Ntelezi even now.

MR BERGER: Is it not correct that the Ntelezi is used to make the AmaButho brave so that they will be protected and do well in war, isn't that what it is for?

MR MKHIZE: That is our belief as Zulu's.

MR BERGER: And in fact, that was your belief on the night and the Ntelezi was used, it was drank and it was also poured or sprinkled over the weapons, is that right?

MR MKHIZE: I am saying that any instance where AmaButho would have to go out, we use this Ntelezi.

MR BERGER: I am asking you about the night of the attack, on that night, did the residents drink Ntelezi?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is what I am saying.

MR BERGER: And did they sprinkle the Ntelezi or pour the Ntelezi over their weapons?

MR MKHIZE: We only sprinkle it.

MR BERGER: There were a number of people who were given AK47's, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I think so.

MR BERGER: There were also people with revolvers and shotguns?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I think so, even though it was night, I am not in the position to specifically indicate who was carrying what kind of a weapon.  I think yes, that was the case.

MR BERGER: And we know that there were also spears and axes?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: Then he says we all left by feet in the direction of the township, that is also correct, is it not?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR BERGER: And he says we were about 100 people.  Most of us were from the hostel, but I believe that there were some people from Natal amongst the attackers.  Correct or not?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, the majority of us came from Natal, that is why we resided at the hostel.

MR BERGER: Some of the attackers were wearing red head bands, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: Not some of them, all of them.

MR BERGER: Isn't it that some were wearing red and some were wearing white or am I wrong?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember quite well, but I remember using red head bands, but yes, all of us were wearing head bands, I cannot remember whether there were some white head bands.  I don't want to agree with you when you say there were white head bands used as well, no.

MR BERGER: It is not me who says that, it is Victor Mthembu who says that.  I will move on.  He says we walked on the road and passed under the bridge, which is located a few minutes' walk from the hostel, that is correct, is it not?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: When we came out on the big open field before the township, I saw four to six caspirs parked on the field.  Your comment?

MR MKHIZE: I did say earlier on that I saw only one caspir, it was just driving passed.
	I don't know anything about two or three or four caspirs.

MR BERGER: It is correct that you came out into a big open field before you entered Boipatong, am I right?  After you passed under the bridge, you came out into an open field?  Just before?  Isn't it that you went behind the nursery and then you moved towards the lower side of Boipatong, or is that not the way it happened?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not recall that.