Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

CASE NO: CT/01520/

VICTIM: AMBROSE

MARY BURTON: Please will you stand to take the oath.
SANGO MPEPETO Duly sworn in states

MARY BURTON: You are accompanied - is it by your wife?

SANGO MPEPETO: It is my mother's sister.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much for coming too.  Advocate  Potgieter will facilitate your testimony.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Mpepeto and ma'am, good day and welcome again thank you for coming.  Mr Mpepeto you will tell us about your late brother Ambrose Mpepeto who was shot and killed during 1990 it appears - but before you do that, your brother, your late brother was involved in the Civic Affairs in De Aar.  Is that correct?

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, that's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: What position did he hold and in which organisation was it?

SANGO MPEPETO: My brother was a President of the DARA organisation.

ADV POTGIETER: That is the De Aar Residents Association, is that?

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, it was the Residents Association of the Nonswagasi.

ADV POTGIETER: And in 1990 it seems as if the incident happened during August - August of 1990.

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, that's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: Was your brother, did he have a family or was he unmarried.

SANGO MPEPETO: He was married, but he had no children.

ADV POTGIETER: And was he living on his own with his - with his wife -  his own house.

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, he was living with his wife.

ADV POTGIETER: Now at that time when he was shot and killed - what was the situation like in De Aar?

SANGO MPEPETO: This situation was bad here in De Aar at that time, because there were police all over the township.  On the 1st of August - it was Wednesday - at night - in 1990 - at about 1 o'clock - I heard a knock at the door in my house. It was a daughter from my neighbour crying.
And he - she told me that my brother was shot in Street 10 and I woke up I was shocked - I went to my uncle in Street 5.  Because my brother was in my uncle's house and I told my uncle that my brother was shot in Street 10.  We both went there and we heard people crying there in Street 10.  My sister's mother who is  sitting next to me.  He was staying next to my brother's place.  When we went there my younger brother - who is Johannesburg now, was there - was already there and he was the first one to see my brother's body.
The police were there and Mr Snyman was there.  And my younger brother - when he wanted to pick up my body, they shot my younger brother with a tear gas.  They didn't want anybody to pick up the body of my brother there -   he lied there for a long time.  
When we arrive there, we were told that people were crying and the police didn't allow anyone to pick my brother's body up.  When we arrived there with my uncle, we saw the police vans taking the person who shot my brother together with them.  We picked up my brother's hat and it had a hole and we - we - I said to my uncle we have to go tell my mother what happened.
When we arrived to my mother, we knocked at the door and she asked who are we and I told her to open the door.  We entered the door together with my uncle.  And my mother asked us why we were there.  We told her that my brother was dead, but firstly we didn't know how to tell my mother, but we had to tell her and I said to her, mother, please sit down, because we are here to tell you something about your son.
Because the shots you heard fired outside, they killed you son Ambrose and we tried to comfort her.  She was strong.  
We went back to our homes and we slept and the next morning we went to the hospital to the mortuary to look for him.  And we were told to wait for another surgeon and this white surgeon came and we said we just wanted to see the body of my brother.  We - they showed us this body, my brother had a shot - a wound in the forehead and in the chest.  And they  - he also had a wound made with an axe in his body.  We then went home.  
There is a man from the Tantsi family.  At that time there was a teacher's car that had been burned down.  This man from the Tantsi family had gone to Street 10. He went to a house that had shot my brother.  They asked why they'd burned the car.  Apparently that's when my brother arrived.  He was with Pickup Tantsi.  My brother said they must stop this violence. [indistinct]   then took out a gun and shot my brother, twice and he fell down - after that they axed him.  
Time went on, Pickup kept on saying that if he is wanted for evidence, he wanted to come - and Pickup wanted to come and give evidence that my brother had died in his place.  He was the one who have meant to have died.  When we went to find out what's going on with the case, they kept on saying he was a communist, an ANC communist.  We just gave up saying the Lord is in control.  
My mother's health deteriorating.  As we are here today, she could die any moment.  One day in 1992 -   one said the case continuos, because I was working at night, I came to the police station.  And  the family was not told, truly the case was on -  I sat at the back.  The false case continued before me.
Gladys Ngcaga, who was at the time a Mayor, said he's the one who shot my brother.  She then said my brother wanted to rape her.  She said she was in a car with the doors locked.  They asked - did he go about trying to rape you.  She said that she had opened the windows just a bit.  I was sitting there -  listening to all this lies -   all this deception.  She was then asked what she did, she said she took the gun and shot him.  She was told to describe to the - to everyone what happened exactly.  She cried and that was the end of the case.  
The continued as Mayor - as Mayoress in our location.  Because I am a man of peace, because I preach peace, I had to forgive her.  Ms Gladys Ngcaga once called me to her office.  I told my mother and I went to the office.  She closed the door behind me.  She said to me Mr Mpepeto I see that you are a man of peace.  I see your mother all the time  I can see that she is hurting.  She's hurting and  she's in poverty, because it is her son that helped her.  I want to come to your home as a family, to ask for forgiveness.  I then said they must come so that they can also be free.  They did not come to this day.  
In conclusion - my mother can die any moment.  She is emotionally disturbed.   Each and every day she says that before she dies, she must know who killed her son.  Then she will have peace in her heart.  She wants to die peacefully.

ADV POTGIETER: Now this Mr Ngcaga and his wife, did they belong to any group or organisation.

SANGO MPEPETO: They are PAC members.

ADV POTGIETER: And the DARA, the residents association, was that affiliated end of  Tape 2, Side A ...   [indistinct] your mother have any arguments -  disagreements with the Ngcaga before the incident.

SANGO MPEPETO: I know of no discordance with the Ngcaga family.  Even when there were meetings he used to tell me I know about my brother.  He used to investigate everything.  If there was any corruption, he would investigate.  Even in the meetings he spoke openly.  But he never told me of any discordance with the Ngcaga family.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you say he was a person who was quote forthright about anything that was wrong and investigated things that was done wrong.  Now in that investigation did it in any was affect the Mayoress,  with the money issues and all that.

SANGO MPEPETO: I am not sure.  But she was the Mayor at the Nonswagasi township.  Her husband was not working.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you were telling us that you yourself, you are a man of peace, your brother we know, your late brother was the first president or the president of the Residence Association.  What sort of person was he?

SANGO MPEPETO: Yes, it is so.

ADV POTGIETER: Was he a man of peace.  What kind of person was he?