Amnesty Hearings — Vosloorus — 1998-11-24

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: I will say that when I was released from prison 5th of September 1990 I arrived inside Thoboza and found that there was a serious violence taking on and during that period I realised that this violence, it's clear that it's being controlled by professional people, people who have the know how and I stayed for two weeks, if I'm not mistaken and on the third week there was an attack which took place inside Thokoza and they attacked two consecutive days, day and night.  As a member of MK I found myself in a situation where my community was being attacked and I'm not in a position where I could help them and assist them with anything but immediately when I was busy thinking about how to respond of the situation that is going on, one comrade from Kathlehong who unfortunately is not alive currently, his name is Comrade Jackie Macheko, he was a member of MK.  He arrived and handed an AK47 to me and as I said earlier, when I was released I realised that people who are attacking the community inside the township are professional people and they have the knowledge of what they are doing.  By then SANDF had deployed Koevoet, Battalion 32, inside the township and as I said there was an attack which took two days.  I participated when I realised that during the attack the attackers were using a strategy that is well known which has been used by the regime in the past, to demoralise the liberation movement.  People could defend themself but there was a military ambulance that was busy taking bodies, more specially bodies which were members of IFP.  So it is during this period that I realised that I should participate.  As I said I had an AK and the attackers intended to attack Phola Park.  So on our way to Phola Park they were stopped at Thokoza Stadium and it's where the two days attack took place because when I was released I found the community armed themself already and I could see that there it was full of AK47's inside the township and I realised that there was no direction and on the side of the community of how to handle such an attack and as a kid who grew inside that township and as I say as a kid I'm well known inside the township.  I could manage to assist, to show those who were defending the township that - what to do in fact and I said I participated.  I was part of a group that was based inside the old Thokoza Hall and there were members of IFP who were inside the stadium and I could see that on the background the military cars which are moving with them and I did participate in shooting.  If I can still remember I spent something like three magazines of AK47's during that day and earlier I did say that the attackers were using a strategy and that strategy was to demoralise the community of Thokoza.  The army on the background was taking bodies and one day the violence stopped, the only bodies which could be discovered there were the bodies from the community.
	Mr Chairman, I just want to raise something.  We talk of Thokoza and we are not inside Thokoza and I'm aware that you people have the background of what happened but I'm quite sure you people, maybe some of you have never been even inside Thokoza so I thought maybe it would be better if I bring in Thokoza inside this story.  So I brought a map where I wanted to, when you talk of Khumalo, we shall know how Khumalo goes inside Thokoza.  There is a perception of people who are not staying inside Thokoza that when you talk of Khumalo, it's like the whole street was not operating, there was no life inside that street and I know that there was life.  At one stage when the violence went on I gave orders to the external and internal members of MK who were inside the township that they shall give training to members of self defence units and we shall start making demarcation lines where we could see the enemy coming in.

ADV DE JAGER: Right, could you kindly tell us when was that, that you gave those orders or suggestions?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: It was in 1990 more specially after the two day attack.

ADV DE JAGER: So that was after the event that you're applying amnesty for?

CHICHELA ESAU MACHITJE: I've applied because I gave orders on a certain incident that I want to specify here.  After my release I was appointed by the late Chief of Staff of the military wing of the ANC, the late Chris Hani and during this period he made it clear to me that my task it will be to organise defence units which are inside the township and make sure that members of MK who were inside the township, assist and give them know how to do self defence units and I'm here applying again for the distribution of ammunitions, explosives during the war inside the East Rand and this specific incident that took place in 1992 that I'm applying for too because I personally moved from section to section in forming or rather instructing commanders within those sections that there is a funeral of the wife of the so-called Reverend Mbegesini Khumalo.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Machitje, that's why we asked when you started to testify, for which crimes you apply for amnesty.  Are you saying you want to talk about an incident in 1992?  Is there a crime which occurred during that 1992 for which you wish to apply?

MR MAKANJEE: Sorry, if I could just have a moment with my client please?

MS PATEL: Honourable Chairperson, if I must just - I was handed, well a statement by the present applicant just before we commenced now.  I'm not sure if you're in possession of a copy?

CHAIRPERSON: Well maybe it's for them to decide whether they want to submit it or not.

MR MAKANJEE: My apologies Mr Chairperson, I think that was a result of a misunderstanding between myself and the evidence leader.  We will see that the panel has got copies of the further particulars.  My instructions are that my client also ordered a full scale attack on the IFP during a funeral procession through Khumalo Street to the Schoeman Cemetary.  The attack took place in 1992, this is the attack that my client is referring to Mr Chairperson.  My client does wish to apply for amnesty for this event as well as is contained in his further particulars.

CHAIRPERSON: What specific crimes were committed and for which he applies for amnesty?

MR MAKANJEE: The crime is that my client gave the order to his members to attack the funeral procession of IFP march members.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Makanjee, I know of no crime the elements of which would be what you described.  Perhaps the results of what he ordered may have given rise to crimes like people being killed in which case it would have been murder or assault or attempted murder and so forth.  You tell me that he gave the order for an attack on a funeral procession.  That doesn't help us.  That in itself is not a crime because we don't know what occurred.  Now that's what I'm asking you, what is your client applying for, in respect of which crime and that is not for him to say, it's for you as a trained lawyer, to be able to advise him what crime he would have committed.

MR MAKANJEE: My apologies Mr Chairperson again.  The witness - it was not our intention initially to call this witness as the first witness.  I realise that is not the panel's fault, I just want to place it on record.

ADV DE JAGER: On the facts that he's given you, would you say there was a common cause to commit murder or that he was a party to conspiracy to commit murder or attempted murder or public violence or whatever?  ...(inaudible)

MR MAKANJEE: If I could just recap.  My client gave an order to members of his cell that they should do anything at all costs including shooting at marchers, which did occur, to prevent the marchers from proceeding through to the funeral site, to the cemetary.

CHAIRPERSON: Is he aware whether any deaths or injuries ensued?