Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

ELSIE BUWA: I've never injured anyone, or no-one has ever laid a charge against me, up to my old age, no.  I have never been to court, I've never been to prison.  That is the truth.  I'm telling you the truth, I've never been apprehended for anything.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and you know that if a person has injured you, you report that to the police, do you not know that?

ELSIE BUWA: Who would I report it to?  Because the police who were supposedly our protectors, where were they when we were attacked?  I do not trust any policeman now, I only put my faith in God.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Mrs Buwa, we ask you please to answer the questions as they are put to you.

ELSIE BUWA: What am I doing now, am I not responding to your questions?  What am I doing?

CHAIRPERSON: You are asking questions.

ELSIE BUWA: I'm not asking questions, what I'm saying is, how could I have gone to lay a charge with the police?  I don't regard them as present because we would not have been attacked had they been present.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Lowies?

MR LOWIES: Who is Nonosi Mavis Buwa?

ELSIE BUWA: The same girl who was hacked on the head.

MR LOWIES: Now we have a statement from her - which is just the very next statement, Chairman, whereby she states that in your presence she spoke to the police and she also made a statement to them.  Can you recall this incident when Nonosi was present and the police asked her what happened.

ELSIE BUWA: No, I was not there, I've never heard of such.

MR LOWIES: Because on that occasion Kekana was also present, Lucky Kekana.  Do you know this policeman?  He took the statement of Nonosi.

ELSIE BUWA: I do not recall that.

MR LOWIES: That was in April '93.

ELSIE BUWA: Where was Nonosi when the statement was taken?  I do not know anything about that.

MR LOWIES: Because Nonosi stated that while she made the statement she was in your presence.  That she says in her first paragraph of her statement.  You cannot recall this at all?

ELSIE BUWA: No, I do not recall.

MR LOWIES: Is it because you are like a child nowadays?

ELSIE BUWA: I am old.

MR LOWIES: And is it maybe because of the old age that you've forgotten this?

ELSIE BUWA: You must remember that you do not always keep in mind what happened a long time ago, because as a human being there are many thoughts that go through your head, particularly if you have children.

MR LOWIES: No, I can understand that children can cause problems, being a father myself, but the point is, did you forget this incident when Nonosi and yourself made statements to the police, as a result of your old age?

MR LAX: Just hang on a second, Mr Lowies, there's nothing, on the face of this document, that they both made statements at the same time or anything to that effect.  Hers is not dated and it's two different people.

MR LOWIES: I agree with that.

MR LAX: So really, to suggest to her that she made, that this statement, that she made hers the same time, maybe you need to clarify that first.

MR LOWIES: Can you recall an incident where Nonosi was in your presence and she made a statement to the police?

ELSIE BUWA: I and Nonosi went to Delmas, we never made a statement here.

MR LOWIES: Now the statement that I showed you where you made a mark, was that taken at Delmas, can you now recall?

UNKNOWN: Sorry Chair, I don't her evidence is that she made a mark anywhere, on her statement.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I think what he wants to find out is the statement on which there is a mark, did she make that statement in Delmas.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chair.

MR LOWIES: What is your answer?

ELSIE BUWA: I went to Delmas, together with Nonosi and they enquired about our injuries and we explained to them how we sustained them.  That was when they took a statement, but with regards to Vanderbijl, there was never a police officer who took a statement.

CHAIRPERSON: What were you asked at Delmas?

ELSIE BUWA: They asked us how we sustained our injuries and we explained to them.

MR LOWIES: Was the person who asked you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether they wrote down your answers?

ELSIE BUWA: It is possible that they were writing down as we explained, because they even checked Nonosi.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you also tell them how you were injured?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I did tell them how I sustained my injuries.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you also tell them how your house was attacked?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I did explain everything.

CHAIRPERSON: After you had explained everything to them, did they require you to make a mark anywhere?

ELSIE BUWA: No, they did not because I told them that I could not write.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR LOWIES: Did they repeat to you what you told them,  in other words what they wrote down, after everything?

ELSIE BUWA: No, they did not read it back to me.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them that you know Vanana Zulu?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I did tell them.

MR LOWIES: Can you recall whether the chap that took the statement from you, one of them was Mr Lucky Kekana?  Not took the statement down, the one that was present.

ELSIE BUWA: I do not know those people, I do not know Lucky Kekana.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them there at Delmas, that  you were asleep with young children when you were awoken by the sound of a firearm?

ELSIE BUWA: I told them everything.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them you tried to hide yourself under the bed?

ELSIE BUWA: No, I did not mention that.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them that you noticed two unknown black males inside the bedroom at that stage?

ELSIE BUWA: I told him that three people entered the room, the bedroom.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them that they were unknown, these people?

ELSIE BUWA: I did not know the two people, but there were three altogether.  I knew Mr Zulu, but I did not know the other two.

MR LOWIES: Did you tell them that you tried to use the bed base as an object to hide behind?

ELSIE BUWA: No.  Where would I have hidden myself, I did not even attempt to hide myself.  It was the children that I hid under the bed, not myself.

MR LOWIES: Did these people remove the bed base that night before they assaulted anybody?

ELSIE BUWA: No, they just removed the mattress, they just wanted to see if there was anybody under.  They just removed the mattress, but they did not lift the bed up.

MR LOWIES: And did they see anybody, could they see anybody?

ELSIE BUWA: I don't know.  Because I don't think they saw them because with regards to the children who were hiding under the bed, no-one amongst them was injured.

MR LOWIES: Now what were you assaulted with, do you know what object?

ELSIE BUWA: I do not know the weapons that they carried, but they had a black handle.  They hacked me on the head and I had to receive stitches in hospital.

MR LOWIES: Would you say it was a panga?

ELSIE BUWA: They also stabbed me.

INTERPRETER: There where the witness is pointing.

ELSIE BUWA: I have something here on my head that needs surgery.

MR LOWIES: Would you say that they hacked you with a panga?

CHAIRPERSON: Wait a minute, just for the record, I think you are, would you just point out again.

ELSIE BUWA: They hacked me on the head, right about there and they stabbed me there, my arms were both swollen, I could not do anything.  When I went to the hospital my arms were swollen badly and something was inserted into my finger to try and straighten it, but it never came right.

MR LOWIES: Would you say that you were assaulted with a panga?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I would say so because it was a sharp instrument.  They did hack me with a sharp instrument.

MR LOWIES: Would you say that you were stabbed with a self-made sharp instrument?

ELSIE BUWA: It looked like a sharp instrument called Nxua(?), Inxula(?).

MR LOWIES: Did you see this instrument?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I saw it.

MR LOWIES: Can you show us the length of this instrument?