Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1976-07-19

CHAIRPERSON: ..... recuse himself.  Please carry on.

ADV DE JAGER: Chairperson, in this matter I did an interview with one of the applicants whilst he was conducting a hunger strike and on his behalf I made certain representations to the then Minister.  In the light thereof it might be seen by some people as that I have a personal interest in this matter or that in these circumstances where I acted on his behalf, should not sit in this matter.
	I think it is correct that this Committee must be seen to be unbiased at all times and an independent Committee and in the light of that I think that some members of the public might say that I was a representative for one of these parties and therefore I think it is correct therefore that I recuse myself from this matter, and for that reason I am now going to recuse myself and you may proceed with the matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman first an apology that we had to start as late as we are doing now.  It is due to some logistical arrangements that were not in place.
	Mr Chairman we have two applicants today to start with, that is Cornelius Johannes van Wyk, and Pierre du Plessis.  Mr Chairman we will first start with the application by Cornelius Johannes van Wyk, represented by Attorney Gimsbeek.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any dependents of the victims, if there were any, in this matter, are there relatives who have to be notified and have been notified?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman I had given out a memo to the Investigating Unit, particularly Advocate Andre Steenkamp in Johannesburg and Major Swart to do that for me.  Unfortunately when I got hold of Andre Steenkamp this morning he told me that due to time constraints they couldn't, but some members they cannot trace and I asked him to be present here after lunch to give me a full explanation.  At the moment they are not here.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, you may proceed.

MR GIMSBEEK: Thank you Chairperson.  I would just like to inform the Committee of the format which we will follow.  We will not proceed in terms of the official application as submitted.  My client has indicated that he prefers to give his evidence in chronological order, the background and then to proceed to how the actual offences were committed.
	I would like to start with a short introduction and then my client will testify.  You are Cornelius Johannes van Wyk?

CHAIRPERSON: The witness must please switch his microphone on.

CORNELIUS JOHANNES VAN WYK: (sworn states)

MR GIMSBEEK: You are Mr Cornelius Johannes van Wyk?

MR VAN WYK: That is correct.

MR GIMSBEEK: You are currently serving a sentence of imprisonment for a series of crimes?

MR VAN WYK: That's correct.

MR GIMSBEEK: The offences with which you were charged are contained in the indictment which is annexed to the documents in front of you.

MR VAN WYK: That is correct.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you just read them out, these offences.

MR VAN WYK: I was charged on a charge of theft of motor car; three charges of murder; attempted robbery with aggravating circumstances; contravention of Section 2 read with Section 1 of the Arms and Ammunitions Act; housebreaking with the intent to steal and attempted theft; two charges of robbery; housebreak with intent to steal and theft; contravention of Section 32(1) read with Section 139 etc of Act 75 of 1965, illegal possession of firearms, alternatively a contravention of Section 6(1) of the Explosives Act, and contravention of Section 6(1) read with Section 1 etc of the Explosives Act, Act 26 of 1956 and a contravention of Section 36 read with Section 1, 39 and 40 of Act 75 of 1969, illegal possession of ammunition.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you indicate for which of these crimes, on which of these crimes you were convicted?

MR VAN WYK: I was convicted ...(intervention)

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Just a minute, we are trying to get this document, the indictment.

MR GIMSBEEK: If I can assist the Committee it's just attached after Annexure Z12, it's the first document after Annexure Z12, sorry Z13.

CHAIRPERSON: Attached to the letter of Z13 is it?

MR GIMSBEEK: Just after that Annexure is the indictment.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Have you another copy of that document?

MR GIMSBEEK: I unfortunately only have the one copy that I am working from, but my learned friend has indicated that he can assist.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may proceed.

MR GIMSBEEK: Thank you.  Mr van Wyk you were telling us on which of these charges you were convicted.

MR VAN WYK: I was convicted on charge 1, theft of motor vehicle.  Charges 2-5, three charges of murder and attempted robbery with aggravating circumstances and on count 6 I was convicted, contravention of Section 2 of the Arms and Ammunitions Act; charge 7 housebreaking with intent to steal and attempted theft; both charges 8 and 9, they were charges of robbery and on charge 10 housebreaking with intent to steal and theft; charge 11, contravention of Section 32, illegal possession of firearms, and I was acquitted on charges 12 and 13.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you tell the Committee what sentences you received for each of these convictions?  I then refer you to the sentence attached at the end of the bundle of documents, page 108.

MR VAN WYK: On charge 1, five years imprisonment; 2,3 and 4, life imprisonment on each of those; charge 5, eight years imprisonment; count 6, one year's imprisonment; count 7, five years imprisonment and count 8 and 9, taken together for purposes of sentence, 12 years imprisonment.  On count 10, eight years imprisonment; count 11, ten years imprisonment.

MR GIMSBEEK: How long have you been in prison since imposition of sentence?

MR VAN WYK: I have been there for two years.

MR GIMSBEEK: How old were you when you were sentenced?

MR VAN WYK: I was 24.

MR GIMSBEEK: So therefore you are currently 26?

MR VAN WYK: Yes.

MR GIMSBEEK: Mr van Wyk you have indicated that you prefer to testify in a chronological order and start right at the beginning and tell us a little about your childhood and your personal background and the various influences which led you to commit these offences.  Could you start right at the beginning.

MR VAN WYK: Yes.  I think it will be suitable if I start during my puberty. I was about 12, 13 years old and at that stage - well I grew up in a very strict, conservative and rightwing home.  I had very rightwing views right from the outset.  I was never radically rightwing though until I met Mr du Plessis in standard 6 when I was in high school.  I became good friends with him to such an extent that I visited him at his home quite often and had a lot of contact with his father, Mr du Plessis (Snr).  And it was Mr du Plessis (Snr) who had this influence on me and which changed my views to a more radical direction, and he introduced me for the first time to the ultra rightwing thoughts.
	And I, at that stage, my father and I didn't have a very good relationship, we didn't talk very much, there was a bit of division between the two of us and I was therefore quite vulnerable and these new ideas had quite an effect on me.
	I was in standard 6 when I met Mr du Plessis and through Mr du Plessis (Snr) I was introduced to the very rightwing ideas and concepts such as the Church of the Creator.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you just tell us a little bit more about the Church of the Creator which you have just referred to, what did that entail, the Church of the Creator?