Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-06

PROF MEIRING: Amandla thank you so much.  You have taken us through the story and I think that I, as well as some of the Commissioners would like to clarify a few points with questions we want to put to you and maybe then if you feel that you've left out things you can add to that.  May I ask you a number of questions just for the sake of clarity.  You speak about your brother Christopher, what was his
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occupation?  You said that he went to visit a client at some stage, but what did he do, Christopher your brother?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: Chris was installing ceilings and he was a carpenter.  It was his part-time job.  Most of the time he was an organiser for the ANC Youth League.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  A second question for the sake of clarity you said repeatedly that it was the IFP, the Inkatha Freedom Party, members of that party who abducted your brother and were also responsible for the massacre, are you very sure?  Is there evidence that they were involved?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: Yes I still want to stress there is a lady who has just spoken that there was an IFP rally and her child was shot.  I am sure that their general was Beulah Gubeka.  Temba Gubeka is her son, and this particular group that we are referring to, the one that the lady had spoken about it is true that they used to hijack cars but they used to specialise in force.  They were that group who used to specialise, I wouldn't say they were a gangster, I could say they were stealing or hijacking cars.  But what happened is that at that time Beulah took them. When they were investigating this matter there were rumours that they were trying to solve or tried to solve a clash between Inkatha because Beulah at that time was the general of Inkatha.  He had recruited Temba and Ketisi to join Inkatha and at that time we knew that they were members of the IFP.

PROF MEIRING: Another question which is at the back of my mind the whole time when I listen to you, why did they pick on Christopher?  Why was Christopher the man they wanted to get out of the way?  Was it because he was a member of the ANC and they didn't like it?  Was it because he was a
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 witness to a murder?  You say in your written statement that he was a witness to a murder by Ketisi and that that may be why they want to get him out of the way.  Or can it be because they were friends initially and they had fallen out along the way?  If you have to answer that question, why was it Christopher that was the man who was the victim?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: I'll just explain it.  As his mother had said that Ketisi, Hunter and Zanzi had taken my brother and they were taken to eat inside together with Lucky Mboyane, the first incident is the one that I had already related is that he forced a certain woman to drink acid and that woman died.  And that woman shared the surname with his wife from Mkopane family.  I don't know whether her parents came to submit a statement.  But Chris did indicate that he knew something about this incident.  I also know this as well as Sotetsi knew this.  At the time the comrades were taking them in their car it is correct that they were going to be burned but Lucky Mboyane told me that Chris came to intervene, not that they ran away or were able to run away, but Chris intervened.  What I was told was that the car had no petrol anymore that's why it couldn't take fire.  Then Chris, as he was nearby that place, and it is correct that the car was at Ketisi's relative's place, but they were not able to escape but Chris intervened and pointed out that they were still handling the people's case and no further action should be taken pending the decisions of the negotiations.  Probably that's what caused him to die.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much for that.  Just for the record you speak about "Zanzi", do you have a surname for Zanzi, or is Zanzi the only name you know?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: I don't know Zanzi's surname but I know his HRV/312 mother/...
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mother is Tandi and he is Zanzi.  They used to stay the same street as myself.

PROF MEIRING: And then "Hunter", the surname of Hunter?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: Yes Hunter's mother has just testified..

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  And Sipo?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: I know only the name.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you.  And then a last question I would like to ask you and then I will hand over to the others, after everything that happened, after the death of your brother, after the attack, the massacre, everything that happened in the community do you think reconciliation between the ANC and the IFP is possible?  Will it be possible in future for people to live together in Sebokeng?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: To tell the honest fact, as the community is present, especially Sebokeng people the IFP has used the poor people, that is (...indistinct) people as well as the Ndlovu people.  There is no IFP in Sebokeng.  Beulah was using some means by conducting rallies there.  The people who were there were not residents of Zone 7.  They were coming from the hostels, as well as in Sebokeng Hostel there weren't any members of the IFP.  What I could say is the community, because the people who were affected were not the ANC members, the PAC members were also affected, as well as Hunter's mother.  Hunter's mother did not belong to any political organisation.  According to my opinion I think as the mothers are sitting here Ketisi's mother as well as Chris' mother are the ones who felt the pain because we want the mothers to come together.  We want them to set an example for us, the youth.  We want them to tell us that we have felt the pain so you as our children should not inherit the pain that we have felt because they are the ones who
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have lost the most.  Now we want them to set an example for us especially the mothers are the ones who were affected,  I am talking about my mother as well as the family members who died at my place, as well as Ketisi's family.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you ever so much.  I really appreciate your answers and I am going to hand over now to the Chairlady for other people to ask questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera?

DR RANDERA: Amandla can I come back to your statement.  You said that on the day that Chris was abducted you went to Ketisi's and you saw firstly your brother in the house, who else was in the house at the time?

ALBERT AMANDLA NANGALEMBE: As I have already said I could identify my brother.  In this car I did not notice, or I could not identify anyone.  There were two people.  He was sitting at the back seat, there were two people sitting beside him.  I don't know who these were.  I could not identify them.  I identified my brother because I know him very well as he was in the car at the time and the car was parked in the yard.  I did not get into the yard, I was driving past, because Ketisi's house is right at the main road.

DR RANDERA: And then you went back with the riot squad people you said after you had been to the police station and Ketisi was not there and you had already told them that they had gone in the direction of Boipatong, was there anybody at the house when you went there at that time?