Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

MR PRIOR: I just need to know from you how it occurred that on this particular day the 18th November 1992 when you attacked this vehicle - how, as I understood your instructions last week, was that no vehicle where an African person was either riding on, passenger or driving was to be attacked?  How that mistake could again have occurred on this occasion -sorry, I'll rephrase it - how that mistake arose on this day, the 18th November - you shot at a vehicle where in fact Mr Ndeleni who will later be called to give evidence was in fact a front seat passenger?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The data I heard about those cars was never mentioned that there will be African people.

MR PRIOR: So did this come as a surprise to you on that day that you saw an African person?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: So there was no need - there wasn't any warning given by whoever was waving his hat or his hand?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No there was no warning.

MR PRIOR: So in fact the warning was simply that a vehicle was approaching?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: The signal that was given had nothing to do with the occupants of that vehicle, is that correct?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was with the car as they know the car, the type of the car which was approaching.

MR PRIOR: Now Mr Griesel, I understood, worked in Sterkspruit, I think he was an electrical contractor or he worked for Eskom, he was laying cables there, did you know that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No, I didn't know.

MR PRIOR: So on that particular morning, what was your specific information about this vehicle, what were you to expect?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The person I deployed to give us the early warning knew about those cars so he was in the position to identify the cars.

MR PRIOR: Alright, you say you didn't know the identity of the driver or the owner of the vehicle.  Were you expecting more than one vehicle on that occasion to come through over the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was expecting more than one.

MR PRIOR: How many?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: More than one will mean two or three.

MR PRIOR: Well what was your information, would there be three vehicles at that time in the morning or was it - were you just going to take a chance?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was expecting more than one, I didn't know how many would there be.

MR PRIOR: And you were going to attack all those vehicles as they came across the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: If at the time ...[inaudible]

MR PRIOR: When you started shooting at this bakkie, how far away was it from you?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was a distance away from me.

MR PRIOR: Can you point out that distance from where you are sitting as you can see in the hall?

CHAIRPERSON: If that doesn't help you can go outside and point it out outside, it may be a more realistic distance.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Don't you have pictures of that area?

MR PRIOR: Yes, go to page 53 of the bundle, 54, 56, 57, 58.  Mr Chairman, unfortunately I don't have the originals of all those photographs.  I do have an original of I think the photographs in bundle B.  Yes, could you also maybe look at the bundle B which is also photographs of that bridge?
	Can I possibly ask you this question first - did you attack the vehicle, shoot at the vehicle as it was approaching the bridge or after it had crossed the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Before it approached the bridge.

MR PRIOR: Right, if you look at page 53, photograph 1, it's a photocopy but it's fairly clear.  There's a point A which indicates an arrow, in other words the vehicle was driving towards the photographer, do you agree with that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And all those points B, H, J, G, and you can see there's two vehicles parked in the background.  Is that where the shooting occurred, from that direction?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I think if you can use page 54, I think it's a clear one.

MR PRIOR: Okay, that's the direction from which the vehicle was travelling, from Zastron towards the bridge, Sterkspruit?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: And I take point A to be the first bullet where it started the shooting.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, no, point A just gives you the direction of the vehicle.  All the other points where cartridges were found, all along that area, starting from point J towards the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The shooting started when the car was from this area of point A.

MR PRIOR: Alright, can you see there's a white car on the left hand side, looking at page 54?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: I don't want the exact spot, was it more or less from that area that the shooting started, when the vehicle was in that position?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was more or less from point A.

MR PRIOR: Okay and it was shot at as it was driving towards the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And when it passed you did you then run after it firing your R4 rifle?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No.

MR PRIOR: Did you stay in one position?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And did any of your comrades further up towards the bridge, did they also fire at this vehicle?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I didn't notice that.

MR PRIOR: Okay.

MR LAX: I understood your previous evidence to be that once the vehicle had passed you, you realised there was an African in it and you stopped firing?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: So you didn't continue shooting after it had passed you?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: Okay, I just wanted to clarify that because your last answer made it seem as if you might have carried on shooting after the vehicle passed you.
ADV. SANDI: Let's have a look a page 54, that's photo number 2, where were you, were you on the gravel road or are you able to indicate the point where you were when you opened fire on this vehicle?  Where were you in relation to this photo?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was just next to the bridge.
ADV. SANDI: Next to the bridge would be, if we can use annexure B, photo 2.

MR LAX: Were you standing at the point where he is pointing to?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was around there.

MR LAX: Somewhere in that vicinity?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: Were you behind that barrier or in front of the barrier?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was behind it.

MR LAX: Were you on the other side of the fence or - see there's a fence there - behind the barrier a bit further back there's a fence that runs.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No I don't think I was behind it.

MR LAX: So you were between the fence and the barrier?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: Somewhere in that vicinity?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I've been passed a note by the caterers that tea - can tea be served, it's twenty to twelve.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I was just wondering, we started late but I'm aware that some people may have been here waiting for some time and whether they would like a short adjournment.

MR PRIOR: I think just from their side because they have after the tea, they have to start to preparing the lunch which is quite - so that's the note that's been passed so can we take the adjournment now?

CHAIRPERSON: I'm prepared to agree to a tea adjournment provided it takes about ten minutes, we don't have the normal long dragging on.  Right we'll adjourn now and come back at ten to twelve.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

MR PRIOR: (cont)
	Thank you Mr Chairman.  
	Mr Dolo, you are unable to tell us who else in your unit whether they fired or not?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: (s.u.o.)
	...[inaudible]

MR PRIOR: There was no report made to you after this operation by the other members as to what they did during this operation?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't recall what did they say.

MR PRIOR: I just want to just deal finally with the one aspect that I dealt with before the tea adjournment.  You confirm that your specific instructions or your specific command was to attack settlers, white people who had interests, business interests or had worked in Sterkspruit - they had to be attacked specifically in this area?