Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-02-09

UNKNOWN: The establishment of the Lesotho network you have already explained, was that something that happened overnight?  Is it quick to establish such a network?

MR DU PLESSIS: This is time-consuming and I want to say this, it took a few years to establish this network.

UNKNOWN: You held discussions with the deceased and provided information to him how he had to communicate.  According to you then he would have become a source of intelligence to be used in Lesotho, is that correct?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: The deceased was at that stage still detained at Jeffreys Bay, is that correct?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes that is correct.

UNKNOWN: And at a certain stage you visited him again, after he had said that he was willing to cooperate?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Where was he detained at that stage, where in Jeffreys Bay?

MR DU PLESSIS: In the cells at the Jeffreys Bay police station.

UNKNOWN: Tell the Commission what happened then.

CHAIRPERSON: .... some idea as to when that was, what month that was?

MR DU PLESSIS: I can only speculate.  It was round about the end of July, the beginning of August, but it's only speculation.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR DU PLESSIS: I went to his cell.  At that stage he was showering in the cell complex.  I sat down on his bed to wait for him till he had finished showering.  When I sat down on the bed I heard some paper.  I took out those papers thinking that those were reports he was compiling for me.  I started reading through those notes and received a note apparently directed to the ANC.

UNKNOWN: Was this note in Mr Kondile's handwriting?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes it was his own handwriting.

UNKNOWN: What was the contents of this note?

MR DU PLESSIS: Shortly, if I can remember correctly, it was to inform the ANC, it was directed to a person to inform the ANC that firstly, they had been arrested, and secondly that he pretended to be an informer.  That at this stage he had provided no information which would harm any ANC member.  That was what it was all about, shortly.

UNKNOWN: When you saw this note what was your conclusion?  At this stage you thought that he had become an informer, what was your impression what was going on?

MR DU PLESSIS: I realised I had made a mistake, that he was not loyal and that he had misled me.

UNKNOWN: This man was in security detention and now you found that note, what was the importance apart from indicating that he was not loyal?  Would it be possible from him to smuggle this documentation from jail?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes definitely it had happened at various instances, at every police station this happened.  Ordinary people were detained in the same complex, ordinary criminals, and it was quite easy and it did happen in that way that prisoners on their way to court were asked to carry this information.  It could have been that he had recruited one of the policemen to do the necessary for him.

UNKNOWN: Mr du Plessis when you realised that this so-called informer was not reliable, what was your reaction?

MR DU PLESSIS: I think the normal reaction of a security policeman where, for example in the first place, because I trusted him I was shocked, I was terribly disappointed.  I realised that this whole network was in danger because of this.

UNKNOWN: Right.

MR DU PLESSIS: Because of the fact that he knew who the agent was.

UNKNOWN: And then when he came out of the shower did you mention anything?

MR DU PLESSIS: No I didn't say anything, I did not take those notes.

UNKNOWN: Why not?

MR DU PLESSIS: At that stage I honestly want to tell you I did not know what to do.  I didn't know what the next step had to be, and I wanted to seek assistance.

UNKNOWN: In the first place what did you do then regarding the deceased himself, regarding his accommodation?

MR DU PLESSIS: I arranged that he would get a barracks room at the Jeffreys Bay police station and that he should be guarded by Raath with the specific instructions that provision should be made that he absolutely had to make provision or see to it that nobody visits him and nothing could get out of that barracks room.

UNKNOWN: Did you give the deceased an explanation why you were doing this?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes I told him that because he was cooperating so well I want him to be treated better.  I don't want to keep him in the cells anymore but that he should get a room to live in.

UNKNOWN: You emphasise that you told Sergeant Raath that he was not allowed to communicate with anybody, what was the purpose of that?

MR DU PLESSIS: In the first place I did not confiscate those papers.  If I had done that you would have realised that I had taken possession of that, and at that stage I did not want him to know that I was aware of the situation.

UNKNOWN: Why did you want to keep him in communicado?

MR DU PLESSIS: Because he could not make contact with the ANC.

UNKNOWN: Afterwards where did you go to?

MR DU PLESSIS: I approached General Nick van Rensburg to assist me in this regard.  I told him in detail, if I remember correctly, van Rensburg was aware of the fact that I regarded this as a breakthrough to recruit Kondile.  I am honest today to say that I was proud of that.  This whole thing exploded in my face and he was the only person at this stage who could give assistance to me.  He had more experience than I had.

UNKNOWN: Then in essence you told Colonel van Rensburg what had happened and that this informer was not such a good informer, and did you also tell him that the network had been exposed?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: What happened then?

MR DU PLESSIS: Van Rensburg then proposed that we go to Colonel Erasmus, now General Erasmus, he was Divisional Commander of the Eastern Cape Security Branch.  There I sketched this whole dilemma for him and we considered various alternatives.  There were not many.
	Firstly, because we couldn't detain him for a longer period.  If we should do that we had to release him at one or other stage or charge him.  And then this information and the identification, in other words of the information network would become known.  By eliminating this - the agent it would lead to making known of other sources and this was also sketched to Erasmus.

UNKNOWN: Did you consider other alternatives to prevent this information from leaking?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.  Erasmus asked at that stage that all the problem areas regarding Kondile had to be put in writing, I did just that.  I gave it to him and he wanted to consider all the various options.

UNKNOWN: After all the facts had been discussed and the matter was investigated did you decide that Mr Kondile had to be killed?

MR DU PLESSIS: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Can you perhaps tell us how that happened?

MR DU PLESSIS: At that stage we decided that there was no other alternative and we contemplated and asked where, how.  Firstly we did not have the experience in this regard.  We did not have the place to do it and if I can remember correctly Colonel van Rensburg told or suggested to Erasmus that he was in contact with Dirk Coetzee from Vlakplaas and that Dirk had the necessary infrastructure or had already indicated that he had the necessary infrastructure to solve or address these problems.

UNKNOWN: This happened in your presence, this whole conversation, what was Erasmus' reaction to this?

MR DU PLESSIS: He agreed to this and said we had to make the necessary contact and that we had to get a team together to do this.  At that stage it was decided that Mr Kondile had to be killed and that Dirk Coetzee's and Vlakplaas' assistance should be obtained.

UNKNOWN: A little while later did you get feedback from van Rensburg in this regard?

MR DU PLESSIS: Yes, I can't remember how often but shortly he said Dirk was able or in a position to assist and at a later stage he said when it would be done.