Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-25

DR RADERA: This is the former station commander?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes.

DR RADERA: Mr Palmer?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, Sir.

DR RADERA: But he has been transferred somewhere else, you say.

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, Sir.

DR RADERA: Now you went and you filled in some forms at Shell House in Johannesburg.

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, that's true, Sir.

DR RADERA: And this Mr Morris who came afterwards to see you, was he a lawyer from the ANC?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, he is the person who accompanied us to the Shell House in Johannesburg. He was helping us to fill in the forms.  He was a leader of the ANC.

DR RADERA: Is he from Johannesburg or from Ventersdorp or where is he from?

REBECCA MAPOGO: This Morris, he is staying at Ventersdorp.

DR RADERA: He stays in Ventersdorp.
KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 R MAPOGO

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes.

DR RADERA: Now once that was done, you know where the bullets went in. Was that from the post-mortem?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, it was from the post-mortem report.  My elder uncle is the one who came with the information, and those papers, we lost them when we were on our way.

DR RADERA: After that, was there an inquest?

REBECCA MAPOGO: There was nothing extra, Sir.

DR RADERA: Did you report it to the police station?

REBECCA MAPOGO: We did report it to the police station but they didn't help in any way.

DR RADERA: So Mr Morris - did you got and ask Mr Morris again after that what was happening?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, we went to ask him.  Then he said we should not be impatient, we are so many, so we should not be impatient, they will give us a report later.

DR RADERA: So you are saying that after the post-mortem you heard nothing else, besides filling in some forms with Mr Morris?

REBECCA MAPOGO: We didn't hear anything thereafter.

DR RADERA: Rebecca, I don't have any further questions, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Rebecca, I just have one question.  Your uncle, he lived with your family.  Is that correct?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, that's true, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was your family dependent upon him, his income, did he contribute to the family's finances?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Can you repeat the question, Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: Did he bring money to the family?

REBECCA MAPOGO: Yes, he is the one who was taking care of the family.  He was buying us everything. He was clothing us,
KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 R MAPOGO
buying us food.

CHAIRPERSON: And when he died, what happened to the family?

REBECCA MAPOGO: We were just suffering, not having somebody to look after us.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much.

DR RADERA: Rebecca, and your auntie, you know sometimes we are lost for words when we hear the stories that people tell us. I must say I am lost for words right now, because here was a man who was doing his work, who had his job, who was  on his way home, supporting his family, and people shoot at him.  Then they actually say that they were not sure whether they would be able to shoot at a person. There are so many of these stories of what happened in our country, and even in these last few days, as we have heard, the stories from different townships in this, what I call the circle, the old Western Transvaal area, undoubtedly there were young people, there were elderly people like your uncle, who were either tortured or in your uncle's case, killed.  We need to find some answers.
 In many ways, I think one of my fellow Commissioners, Ms Sooka, said yesterday that the very people who are meant to be the custodians of our safety, appear to be implicated in what was going on.  
 Her appeal and my appeal, of course today, is that we need to listen from their side, so that this truth that we talk about, can be laid open and we can understand what happened from both sides. 
 I thank you very much for coming and you will be hearing from us again.  Thank you very much.
KLERKSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG