Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

REV XUNDU: You said that there were men who came to you saying that they heard that Tamsanqa, Nombuyiselo and Nombulelo said that in the meeting, your shop must be boycotted?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Were these children members of the ANC?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, they were members of the ANC.

REV XUNDU: Did you try to find out the truth about this matter?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: About what matter sir?

REV XUNDU: The one that it was discussed in the meeting by Mrs Tabalaza that the youth have to boycott your shop?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, I did find that it was true because all they said, happened.

REV XUNDU: Your shop was burnt down?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: But the children that burnt down your house, were not charged?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, they were not charged.

REV XUNDU: They were not sentenced?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: No, they were not sentenced.

REV XUNDU: They appeared in front of the Magistrate and it was found that there was not enough evidence?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, their lawyer represented them and it was found that there was not enough evidence.

REV XUNDU: Again, you mentioned Zihle Twala in your statement.  You said that Zihle confirmed that it was discussed that your house and your shop and Sipika's house must be burnt.

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Can you please repeat?

REV XUNDU: You said that Zihle Twala confirmed that it was discussed that your shop must be burnt?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, he came to tell me that.

REV XUNDU: Did he testify in court?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: He was not there - at that time he was in Durban.

REV XUNDU: As you were listening to the evidence here it was said that after all these incidents, you were charged by the Magistrate and you were sentenced.  Were you sentenced because you organised people to burn down these houses?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: It was said in court I had no right to revenge.

REV XUNDU: This revenge, you mean that you were leading people who were burning down these houses?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: They said in court I was the one who burnt down their houses.  The Magistrate took their side.

REV XUNDU: The Magistrate sentenced you because he was satisfied by the evidence given?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: The Magistrate was satisfied, but I was not satisfied.

REV XUNDU: Did you make an appeal?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, I did.

REV XUNDU: What was the result of that?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: After an appeal the sentence was reduced.

REV XUNDU: But you were found guilty, but they just reduced the sentence?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, they just reduced my sentence.

REV XUNDU: You were released after that?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, I was released due to the laws made by Mr Holomisa.

REV XUNDU: What would you like the Commission to do - what would you advise the Commission to do?  Due to the situation in your village, what would you like to see happening in your village so that the people can be compensated?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: What I can advise the Commission is to make an investigation of how did all this happen.  Who between myself and Mrs Tabalaza is the cause  of the conflict and this led to the burning down of people's houses.  Because what the police found out we were not satisfied and as they were testifying here, they said that their houses burnt down first, but their houses were burnt down after my shop and Mr Sipika's shop burnt down.

REV XUNDU: And the Headmen's house?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, the Headmen's house was the first one.

REV XUNDU: Is there anything else you want to say?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: What I can say to the Commission is that this took a long time and we want peace in our area and I hope that - I know that some people have forgiven me because I had something in my house in December, I had a function in December and people came, but now it surprises me that people talk about my wife.

REV XUNDU: Is she ill?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: No, she is not ill, but there is conflict between her and other people.

REV XUNDU: Is that all you want to say to this Commission?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: What I would like to stress is that if there is a way, I would like the Commission to investigate it so that it can get evidence on what exactly happened because people's houses were burnt down because of the conflict between myself and Mrs Tabalaza.

REV XUNDU: In other words, you want to say that you want peace in your community so that people can be united as they were before?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: We forgave each other with the youth.

REV XUNDU: What about your transport, your taxi's?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: My taxi's are used by the people in the community, except for Mrs Tabalaza and Mrs Ndabambi, they do not use my taxi's.

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, I will hand over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mr Ndleleni, we are not going to want you to explain all the charges laid against you, because there is no time, but I have a few questions for you.
 The court case where it was discussed about your shop, you said that the two boys confirmed that Mrs Tabalaza sent them, Tamsanqa Ntandazo was in court.  Tamsanqa, was he accused of anything?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, he was accused.

ADV SANDI: Tamsanqa said that Mrs Tabalaza sent them to burn your house?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, he said that in court and the Magistrate asked where is this Mrs Tabalaza and Mrs Tabalaza, I think that she heard all this and she went out of court and she disappeared after that because they tried to look for her.

ADV SANDI: The police who were investigating this case, were they present in court?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, Mr Gomenge and other police were there.

ADV SANDI: Didn't they say that they will take steps concerning Tamsanqa's evidence?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: No, they did not say anything.

ADV SANDI: You said that you received amnesty.  For how long were you sentenced?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: I was sentenced for five years.

ADV SANDI: How long did you serve there?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: I stayed for 11 months, I was released in the 12th month, but the sentence was reduced at that time.  I was sentenced for two years, if I am not mistaken.

ADV SANDI: The amnesty referred to - I would like you to explain because there are different kinds of amnesty.  There were different kinds of amnesty before the Truth Commission amnesty.

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: I am not sure about the different amnesty that were there, but when our dockets were checked, if you were arrested before - if you were not arrested before, you would be released.  Such people were released, so that is when I was released.

ADV SANDI: The amnesty you referred to was it an amnesty where you made a request that you were a political prisoner?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: I don't remember whether politics were involved.

ADV SANDI: You head Mrs Tabalaza saying that you chased
her to the bridge.

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: She said that but I did not do that, I over
 - I was going home to Bathurst and my car stopped because of a flat tire and she thought that I was following her.

ADV SANDI: It is clear that there were various things that were happening there.  According to you were the police interested in taking steps to try and stop all the chaos?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: Yes, they were trying.

ADV SANDI: What were they doing?

BARNABAS MBULELO KEKENI NDLELENI: They - the soldiers guarded our village so that there can be peace after all this incidents.