Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-08-05

CHAIRPERSON: What I think we envisage is that after Mr Van den Berg has had an opportunity, he or his assistant, consulting with his client, it may be necessary not to recall him but to call him again to amplify his evidence on certain aspects and then obviously you could question him on them.  Mr Prior?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman I agree with everything that Mr Van den Berg said.  I do apologise to the extent that Mr Van den Berg was not fully appraised of all the documents, but may I just put on record that from the nature of the applications before the Amnesty Committee and our discussions with the ANC desk, that is Mr Brian Kopede and the former counsel that was involved with Mr Matshididi and Mr Shoke, at no stage was it envisaged that there were would be a dispute about the people who were injured and to that extent I think the Committee will also recall that I did not put up all the bundles of damaged property, which had been prepared, we didn't simply want to burden or have the voluminous statements read and wasting time because certainly my understanding was that there was no dispute about who was injured and what was damaged.

CHAIRPERSON: The only dispute is where they were injured, where they were at the time of injury and that dispute only arose after the present applicant gave evidence.  Prior to that the evidence before us was that at the time the bomb exploded, the applicants were all 1.9 kilometres away and wouldn't have known where the people were so it wasn't relevant, it only became relevant yesterday afternoon.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman, to that extent I do apologise to Mr Van den Berg, I should have, as of yesterday, provided those bundles but ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Provided we can be guaranteed that he will get, that both counsels will get all the bundles now, we can then - do you agree we adjourn now till Friday morning?

ADV PRIOR: That will be the practical solution under the circumstances.

CHAIRPERSON: While we are dealing with matters, can I correct something else, a mistake on my part that I was confused - this was before you arrived on the scene Mr Van den Berg.  I think I said on the first day that my impression was that Ellis Park with tennis rackets are shown on page 53 was another ground and that the ground we were talking about was where Ellis Park appears in capital letters up above.  That is obviously completely wrong, the rugby ground is the same place as where the tennis rackets are depicted.  All the - you will discover when you read the statements I've referred to, all of them talk of coming out of the north east gate of Ellis Park and walking in a northerly direction up Upper Meyer Street.  So when I said on Monday the converse, it was a mistake on my part, I had misread the map number at page 53.  It becomes much more sensible when one realises that Upper Meyer Street doesn't continue to run into it and if I misled anybody, I apologise to them.  All of you probably know Ellis Park far better than I do and were not misled but that being so, with the agreement with the members of my Committee with whom I have discussed this matter, we will adjourn the present hearing, expectantly, until Friday morning at 9 o'clock.  The applicants are all at liberty aren't they?

ADV PRIOR: They are Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: The applicants are excused until that time.  Please it is very urgent that they remain in close contact with their legal advisers if they need to get further instructions from them and counsel and his assistant are also excused and thank you for your assistance and I'm very sorry that I didn't realise yesterday that you had not had an opportunity of seeing these bundles, it's an oversight on all our part for which we apologise to you Mr Van den Berg.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we ready to go on now or do you want a few minutes adjournment to change your papers and matters of that nature.

MR LANDMAN: Mr Chairman could I ask for a few minutes adjournment, I also want to explain to the applicants in the first matter, the one that stood down, the importance that they be here on Friday as well.

CHAIRPERSON: And in fact if you want to obtain any information to clarify anything that they should be ready to give it to you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS