Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-07-07

DR MIJBURGH: No, I can't remember it specifically because I don't have any documents to corroborate that.

MR VALLY: So you don't know that either?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Why is it that in the documents we have, we've seen no reference to research, specifically at Delta-G into methaqualone?

DR MIJBURGH: I don't know, Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: General Neethling advised us that 200 000 mandrax tablets were given to Dr Basson for research purposes.  If that is true, did you ever have discussions with General Neethling about this issue?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: He never mentioned to you, by the way I slipped 200 000 mandrax tablets to Dr Basson, how is it going?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Did he mention anything about LSD, did you ever do any work on LSD?

DR MIJBURGH: Not as far as I know.

MR VALLY: Did you do any work on dagga?

DR MIJBURGH: We did some work on cannabis, yes.

MR VALLY: Can you tell us what?

DR MIJBURGH: There was an extraction of the active ingredient of cannabis from the amount of cannabis which we received from the Defence Force via Dr Basson, and I understand that it come from the Police.

MR VALLY: Alright, let's just take the mandrax a bit further.  We know you got 200 - well, we know that General Neethling gave Dr Basson 200 000 - approximately 200 000 mandrax tablets.  Are you aware of when you started sourcing mandrax tablets - sorry, methaqualone, directly at Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: I can't remember precisely when.  According to the documents it seems that it was manufactured in 1988, roundabout then.

MR VALLY: Alright, so you started manufacturing it in 1988.  Do you recall how much methaqualone you manufactured?

DR MIJBURGH: I think, but I'm not sure, that there was 1000 kilograms that was manufactured.

MR VALLY: So we've go 200 000 mandrax tablets, possibly delivered to you, but definitely Dr Basson, we've got 1000 kilograms of mandrax which you manufactured yourself - methaqualone, I beg your pardon.  What did you do with the 1000 kilograms?

DR MIJBURGH: It was delivered to the Defence Force or the Defence Force came to fetch it, I can't recall exactly how it happened.

MR VALLY: You don't know?

DR MIJBURGH: The physical procedure followed, that I can't comment on.  I can't remember that I was actually involved and I can't remember how it happened.

MR VALLY: But you were the Managing Director at the relevant time?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: What about the methaqualone ...(indistinct) from Croatia, did that come to Delta-G?

DR MIJBURGH: I am not aware of methaqualone from Croatia.

MR VALLY: You have no knowledge of it whatsoever?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Dr Mijburgh, do you recall you went to Switzerland?

DR MIJBURGH: I beg your pardon.

MR VALLY: Do you recall you went to Switzerland?

DR MIJBURGH: I went to Switzerland on several occasions.

MR VALLY: Specifically regarding the issue of Dr Jacomet?

DR MIJBURGH: No, I had nothing to do with Dr Jacomet.

MR VALLY: We have documentation showing that you went to Switzerland regarding the issue of Dr Jacomet and his involvement ...(intervention)

MR VAN ZYL: Chairperson, with respect, once again we're dealing with documentation and we have no copies in front of us.  Please will Mr Vally hand it over to my client so that we can have a look at it and consult perhaps.

CHAIRPERSON: That is fair comment.

MR VAN ZYL: Chairperson, and also as far a further procedural arrangements are concerned, if there's other documentation which Mr Vally would like to refer to, he must please give it to us now so that we can do all our consultation with the client now and then we can continue without interruption.  Any further documentation to be used must be handed to us now so that I can consult my client on that, otherwise we are going to have this piecemeal procedure which is going to be very time consuming.

CHAIRPERSON: We've reached a stage where we should be talking about that.  That's a very fair comment, Mr van Zyl.  Mr Vally if we're going to be using documents, the witnesses are entitled to have not only sight of them, but to be able to consult with their legal practitioners on the basis thereof.  It's so standard that I'm sure there's been a slip-up.

MR VALLY: I agree with that, these were the documentation that we received form General Knobel.  We're still waiting for an answer from Advocate Arendse, we want to use this documentation and we're waiting for them to come back to us on that.  We've had discussions with them.  I apologise, and I may need to come back to this issue.  Dr Mijburgh for the record said that he had no knowledge of the mandrax from Croatia and I want to come back - methaqualone rather from Croatia and I will come back to that issue, Mr Chair, but maybe we can jog Advocate Arendse along a bit.

NORMAN ARENDSE: I don't think it's a question of jogging me along, Chairperson, the provisional arrangement the last time was that these documents would fall into category B, subject to Mr Vally and Mr Chaskalson having a closer look at them.  They've come back to me during the break to indicate that they only feel there's one particular document, but I don't see what that's got to do with the witness and his counsel requesting these documents in advance.

MR VALLY: I am aware ...(intervention)

NORMAN ARENDSE: ...[inaudible] allegation arises from which document it relates to but it's not my witness.

MR VAN ZYL: With respect Chairperson, it doesn't solve my problem yet.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I appreciate that.

MR VAN ZYL: And I in any case don't understand what proliferation there could have been in whether he went to Switzerland or whatever, I simply want to have sight of all the documents now.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Vally, are you going to be using or referring to any documents which the witness and his legal representatives have not had sight of, let alone consulting on the basis thereof?

MR VALLY: I hear you Mr Chairman.  We'll sort that out by lunch time.  There is some doubt in our minds as to which documents we want to use but we weren't clear that we had been given the go-ahead to use them but if that is the position that suits us fine and we'll do it over lunch.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any questions which you still want to put to this witness that do not involve documents?

MR VALLY: Yes, I do.

CHAIRPERSON: Please go ahead Mr Vally.  Mr Vally?

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr Chairman.
 For all you know, whatever was encapsulated by Steven Beukes could possibly have been mandrax?

DR MIJBURGH: It could have been anything Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: So it could have been mandrax?

DR MIJBURGH: Correct.

MR VALLY: Have you heard of The Citizens Co-operation Bureau, CCB?

DR MIJBURGH: I have heard of them, yes.

MR VALLY: When you were with Special Forces were you aware of them?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: When did you first become aware of them?

DR MIJBURGH: Press reports.

MR VALLY: Were you aware that they were also attached as one of the Special Forces part of the South African Defence Force?

DR MIJBURGH: Only what I read in the media.

MR VALLY: Are you aware that certain individuals involved in Delta-G had contact with operatives from CCB?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: Did you know Doctor Immelman?

DR MIJBURGH: Yes.

MR VALLY: How did you know him?

DR MIJBURGH: He was an employee of RRL.

MR VALLY: Did you ever have any contact with him?

DR MIJBURGH: I did have contact with him, yes.

MR VALLY: Regularly contact?

DR MIJBURGH: Not regular, no.

MR VALLY: Monthly, weekly?

DR MIJBURGH: No.

MR VALLY: How often?

DR MIJBURGH: One in two to three years.

MR VALLY: I see.  I want to show you a document which you do have.  This is what is called the Steyn Report or the documentation prepared for the, the information prepared for the Steyn Report, do you have a copy of that document?  I'm just trying to find a reference for you,  I think it's 112.

MR VAN ZYL: 111.