Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-13

WITNESS:   No, they didn't.  They died.  The other one was Bhekithemba Radebe.

MRS GCABASHE: Was he also injured?

WITNESS:   He died.

MRS GCABASHE: You may continue.

WITNESS:   After that there had been some attacks from both sides. When you say you were attacking each other, who was attacking who?   ---   They were attacking us.  I am trying to say the IFP people were attacking us.  They continued attacking us and harassing us, and people lost a lot of belongings, including furniture and livestock, because when they arrive when we run away they take anything that they could find.  As we were sitting waiting to find a solution as to the problem we tried to call the police, the police from Shepstone Police Station.  We talked to the station commander, telling him about our problem.  He did come to our place.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you remember his name?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do remember.

MRS GCABASHE: What was his name?

WITNESS:   They used to call him Mr Fourie.  After that Station Commander Fourie arrived we tried to explain to him our problem.  We told him that the IFP is attacking us and harassing us, and they are also accompanied by the police and we don't know what's going on.  And he asked us when did they attack us.  We told him, "Here are the people who died, Bhekithemba and those I am mentioning, and this man from the Dladla family."  He just kept quiet after that.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you remember you said - you mentioned a captain who was with him.  Do you remember his name?

WITNESS:   No, I don't remember.

MRS GCABASHE: Was he a black man or a white man?

WITNESS:   He was a white man. He talked to us, trying to find out as to how he can help us.  We explained to him what happened to us.  He agreed as to what we were telling him.  However, he asked us why don't we want to become IFP members.  We told him we can't be IFP members because we are UDF members.  After that Mr Fourie said so many things, and we asked him as to why the police are always assisting the Inkatha in the attacks.  He said we mustn't ask him that question.  And he took off a shirt that he was wearing.  He was wearing a white shirt.  When he took off this shirt he showed us some wounds, showing how the comrades have injured, and we told him, "We don't know about your incidents, but we are trying to explain to you about the people who have died here."  From that we differed in views.  He took out his gun and R4 rifle.  He cocked it and put it on top of his shoulder and started walking away.  He was walking on foot, and the IFP members were standing somewhere from a distance and he went towards their position.  We were so confused we didn't know what was happening.  And he left us and said, "You can do whatever you want to do."  After he left we were attacked and we didn't know what to do.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you see the people who attacked you?

WITNESS:   Yes, we used to see them, and we also know them.  After that people attacked us, and the police were gone at that time.  We used not to sleep at home.  We used to go back to the forest at night and come back during the day.  And it continued like that.  On the 6th of May 1991 the IFP again, together with the police, attacked one family.  That was the Ngcobo family.  The father of the family was Ngcobu Ngcobo.  On that day when this happened I was outside at the gate.  We were just sitting with some of my friends.  We were just smoking, sitting outside just watching exactly what was happening around us.  It was about quarter to 10 or 10 o'clock in the evening.  We saw a police car passing.  It was from a place called Crossing.  It was going to Mtengwane.  During the time we were watching this car as it was passing.  After it had just passed it shined its green light on top of it.  At about a few minutes, about 10 minutes the started attacking us.  That's where we discovered that there were police in their company, because they were also accompanied by soldiers because they left their cars and came on foot from the other side.

MRS GCABASHE: Can you go back to the 22nd of November 1991 where Momomu Ndelwane, an IFP leader, was killed?  Can you tell us something about it?

WITNESS:   On November the 22nd, it was 1991, one woman came shouting at this place, Ezikaleni.  This woman stand on top of the hill and started shouting that the IFP together with the police they are coming to look for Momomu.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you still remember this mother?

WITNESS:   No, I don't remember.  After that we sat together with my friends and we decided to go and investigate as to where were these people, the police together with the IFP were coming from which direction.  We rushed towards the place to find out as to who were those people.  We wanted to find out because the place they were coming in it was in our place, the comrades area, it was not an IFP area.  We saw the car.

MRS GCABASHE: Are you still talking about what happened on the 22nd?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am talking about the 22nd.  The car came.  Some of our comrades went towards it to find out exactly as to what are they doing there.  Before we arrived - as I have said there were some of my friends were in front - the people from the car started shooting, and some police alighted from the car and they started shooting at us.  They continued shooting, and those comrades tried to defend and protect themselves.  Some ran to hide, some fired back.  They continued shooting at us and we didn't know what was happening.  And then so many people came out from the houses and we were becoming many in number.  These police it was one white man and three black man.

MRS GCABASHE: You mean is it those people who shot Sifiso?

WITNESS:  Yes, they are the people who shot Sifiso.

MRS GCABASHE: Did you ever find out exactly who were in the car?

WITNESS:   Yes, we saw them when they were coming back for the second time.

MRS GCABASHE: Is it true that it was B P Cele?  Do you remember their names?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.  The first one it was investigating officer B P Cele.  It means ... (inaudible) ... and the others who were in his company, and also a white man.  They left after shooting us on the first time they started shooting, and after some few minutes, about 20 minutes - after some few minutes, like 20 minutes, they came back with police, and some other police were at the back of the car, and they were holding their guns.  Again people started shouting as they have seen them coming down, and they said, "There is the car that killed us."  Since we were from the forest then we came out of the bushes to find out exactly why is the car back in our place.  When we came out of the bushes they started the very same story that they did before.  When we arrived at the scene they started shooting at us.

MRS GCABASHE: Is this the time where you got shot?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MRS GCABASHE: After you were shot what happened to you?  Did you go to hospital, or what happened?

WITNESS:   I went to hospital.

MRS GCABASHE: Which hospital?

WITNESS:   I went to Shepstone Hospital.

MRS GCABASHE: What did they do to you in hospital?

WITNESS:   They treated me, and they told me that I was so badly injured and it will take a long time for me to recover.  And I stayed for about three months in hospital and thereafter I was discharged.  I went back to my place at Gamalakhe.

MRS GCABASHE: You said you were operated.  Did they extract any bullet from your body, or what happened?

WITNESS:   I don't know, because I can't remember how I arrived at the hospital as to when and how.

MRS GCABASHE: Was there any case opened on this matter?

WITNESS:   No, there was no case.

MRS GCABASHE: Didn't you report the case to the police?

WITNESS:   The police came to me while I was in hospital.

MRS GCABASHE: Do you know those police who came to you while you were in hospital?

WITNESS:   I don't remember them well, but I can identify them if I see them.