Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

MR WILLS: Now, you have been convicted for this offence and you were given a twelve (12) year sentence.  You were convicted as a result of a guilty plea, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: And after the sentence you met privately in Ermelo with the Theledi family?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: Now, I know that you've apologised to them privately.  What have you got to say now to them publicly?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I know that I got a chance, an opportunity like this during the trial in Nelspruit to meet with the family and apologise about my dirty work, but I think that today it's the right opportunity since I have the whole community and the people of Mpumalanga, because I heard after I was convicted that Mr Buthelezi, he was a person who was of help to the whole community, especially the Bushbuck Ridge community and surrounding areas.  He used to help them with their problems and many other things.  Therefore I know that my deed didn't only cause a loss to the Buthelezi family, however, the community as a whole which used to get help from Mr Buthelezi did suffer a loss.  Therefore I will say to the community of Mpumalanga I'm sorry, and I apologise for what I did.  I know that my words are not powerful to wipe off your tears and also cool your hearts.  However, what I'm doing at this time, this is all I can do to tell you the truth today as to why it happened and how it happened, and I ask for your forgiveness.  Thank you.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Mr Mbambo, you also made a commitment to the Theledi family, on that occasion I spoke to earlier, about assisting in making sure that the other persons responsible were also brought before the law, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, it is correct.  After I pleaded guilty in court, I became a State witness.  I gave the same evidence that I am giving before the commission to help the Government to convict those who were accomplices in this murder of Mr Buthelezi.

MR WILLS: Yes, Mr Theledi.  Sorry, if you can just bear with me.  Sorry, you're referring to Mr Theledi?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.  I'm saying I tried to help the Government as a State witness so that all my accomplices could be convicted.  I mean those people who laid a hand and killing Mr Theledi.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And is it not so that you did in fact appear at Mr Wiseman Nconco's trial as a State witness and as a result of your's and other evidence available at that trial, that person was indeed convicted for the same offence that you were convicted?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Wills.  Do you have any cross-examination?

MR MAGADI: I have no cross-examination, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAGADI

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any cross-examination?

MR NTULI: None, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR NTULI

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Muller, do you have?
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MULLER

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Swanepoel, do you have any cross-examination?

MR SWANEPOEL: No cross-examination, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR SWANEPOEL

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Just on question, Mr Chairman.  Mr Mbambo, I see on page forty four (44), paragraph ninety eight (98), you state that you were convicted for murder and two counts of attempted for the same incident?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Who are the other two persons?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I don't know them, Mr Chairperson, by their name.  I just met them during the trial.  I also explained that to them, that I cannot explain even today how they got injured, but I know that they were injured because of my acts, because I never shot directly at them, but they said that I shot at them.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: But you're not applying for amnesty for these other two incidents, not so?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I do apply an amnesty, with respect, to them.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: How do you apply to that, because the incident is only the Japhi Theledi matter only?  There's no any other person mentioned here.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I think I explained or I would say I wrote the statement before the trial of Japhi Theledi, the killing of Japhi Theledi.  When writing this statement I didn't know that there were other two people who were injured.  I only discovered this during the trial, that two people were injured when I shot at Theledi, and I also accepted or admitted in court that they might have been injured because of my actions.  I think that's the reason why it doesn't appear in the statement.

UNKNOWN: You have applied for it.  I think you have inserted it in your application which is on page three (3), Mr Mpshe.  Page three (3).  It is included.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo, these two people that were injured when you were shooting Mr Theledi and who you saw or learnt about them for the first time at your trial, were they seriously injured at all?  Can you remember?  Did they give evidence as to how seriously they were injured?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: During my trial they didn't testify because I pleaded guilty.  I didn't explain as to how they were injured because I didn't even know how they were injured, but I did meet them and I had talks with them, and I apologised.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they appear to be crippled or permanently injured at all?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No, they were not crippled.

UNKNOWN: To your knowledge then, Mr Mbambo, you did not cause anyone harm other than Mr Theledi?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

UNKNOWN: So, how can you apply for amnesty in respect of an offence that you never committed?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: The reason for that application is when I entered the shop to shoot Mr Theledi, he was not alone, but he was close to me.  He was the person who was closest to me.  I didn't point the firearm to any other person besides Mr Theledi, but they explained that when I shot at Theledi they were inside the shop.  I don't remember anyone shooting inside the shop except myself at the time.  Therefore if they were injured at the time when Mr Theledi was injured ... (CASSETTE 1B) ... at their back.  I didn't see whether he shot or not.

UNKNOWN: So, you wouldn't know whether the two people who got shot were shot by him?  You wouldn't be able to gainsay that, would you?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I won't be able to say.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: May I just continue that one, Mr Chairman.  You told the Committee now that you spoke to these other two people when you were attending the criminal trial?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You saw them and you know them?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Why is it not that their names are not disclosed to us?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I don't know their names.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: But you were confronted with a charge sheet or an indictment wherein their names were mentioned?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now, why were you not given their names?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: As I'm trying to explain, if they are not in my application, I don't have any reason to explain why they are not there, because I only saw it in the indictment that the other two people were injured and I had to meet the family of Mr Theledi and they have to show me the areas in which they were shot.  That was the only time where I recognised that other people were injured and I can't explain further.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Ja.  Did you, when consulting with your lawyer, MR John Wills, disclose these other two incidents to him when you were drafting up this affidavit?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I should have explained that to him, if provided I wrote the statement after the trial, but if I wrote the statement before the trial I will not have told him.