Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-02-01

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we'll stop there for the moment.  We'll take the luncheon adjournment, we'll reconvene at 2 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

PUMELELE GUMENGU: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Malan.

MR MALAN: (Cont)
	Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Gumengu, you can commence.
MR GUMENGU
"I was saying as the incident happened on the 11th of January 1988, on the 20th of January while I was in Johannesburg I received a call to come back urgently and on the 21st I met with Mr Mfazwe and Mr Xhoyia, they told me about the propaganda that was done by the Sangoni Partnership, believing that the ANC said it was going to blackmail the military government.  So the decision they took at the department and the government, they were going to do police propaganda that the people who did this had been arrested, knowing very well that we were going to be released on the same day or the day after, but it had to be on the headlines that we were arrested.
	So when I was going to go there I would join my colleague, Mr Tjane, who was already arrested in the morning before I arrived from Johannesburg.  Indeed I agreed.  I gave them the car.  I then told them that I would get that car when I was released.  What remained with me was one firearm, a 9mm.  Even when I was arrested it was still with me.
	The following day I appeared in court and the case was postponed for another date.  They told me immediately - or what happened is a policeman came, a uniform who was working in court, he said that we were given a bail, R50 bail in Namakwe court.  That  happened after a few days because that police said that we were supposed to be released but he didn't deliver the message to us.  But whilst we were still thinking about that, about sending somebody to our families in order to pay this R50 bail, Capt Mfazwe came with Lt Maliwa.  Lt Maliwa spoke with Mr Tjane and Capt Mfazwe spoke with me, he told me that he was there to tell me not to pay the R50 bail because there was a government gazette that they were busy preparing that would indemnify us and all the other prisoners that were arrested concerning that action.
	We didn't pay that bail even though we had received that money, but we didn't pay that R50 bail.  The gazette came to us, they brought the gazette to us.  There was no government gazette number but the date of issue was there and it had been signed by the State President.  We were given a copy of this gazette.  
	Capt Mfazwe came to me saying that I should tell Mr Tjane because the law didn't permit us to be told at the same time, he had to tell one person and that person would forward the information to another.  He was always together with Maliwa when he came to see us, so that Mr Maliwa can be busy with Mr Tjane on the other hand.
	Before this date arrived he came to us and said that there was an opposition of this government gazette, but that didn't mean we were not going to be released, they are trying to negotiate with the government because the State President had already agreed.  At the time it was Mr Ndamase, the President.
	The other day we were waiting to be released any time and we were also given the date to appear at the Supreme Court in Umtata.  While we were still waiting there, because we would go to a checkup once a month, the police came to take us to the doctor.  They told us that they've have been asked by the authorities, the prison authorities to come and take us to the checkup at the doctor.  They took us to the doctor.  Whilst we were still there in hospital a Warrant Officer, uniform police from Umtata came with a liberation warrant which had a Supreme Court stamp.  He told us that we have been released by the Supreme Court.  
	What he wanted to know is that were we going to leave or we're going to wait for the treatment at hospital.  I said we were going to leave, he must take me to Msobumvu Police Station, whereby I was going to get a car because Capt Mfazwe told me that he had parked the car there, so I must go and pick up that car there at the police station.
	When I arrived in that car there was a police by the name Dhlomo from Umtata, so there were two policemen, but I didn't know what this Warrant Officer's name was but other one was Mr Dhlomo from Umtata.  And when I arrive in the car Mr Tjane was there.  We went inside the car.  I told them that I was going to pick up the car first, so that I can drive with it.  Indeed they took us with this car, a Sierra.  I think they came with that car from Umtata.  They dropped me at Msobumvu Police Station.  They said that they were going to Namakwe to drop that liberation warrant.
	After that I met with Capt Mfazwe, the same day and I told him that I was going to go home and I did go home.  He told me to rest for a month before going back to Johannesburg in my office.  After a month I continued with my job.  I think that is all.

MR MALAN: Mr Gumengu, just to wrap up your testimony in-chief, I'd just like to pose a few questions.  To sum up, do you testify before this Committee that all your actions mentioned in your testimony were born out of political motivation?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct, Sir.

MR MALAN: And did you receive no personal gain financially other than normal salaries that was given to each and every person in that capacity?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, there was no other benefit.

MR MALAN: We've just learnt now that you received presidential pardon for this criminal matter, and in the light thereof, is there any reason that you didn't or are afraid to make a full disclosure of the events?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Everything that had happened is what I've just said, except maybe the fact that I have forgotten, but there's nothing I want to hide.

JUDGE MILLER: Sorry, Mr Malan, if I could just intervene.
	You say - did you receive indemnity for the shooting of Mr Zokwe, presidential pardon or whatever?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct, Sir.

JUDGE MILLER: Because I see - if you take a look at page of the documents, that's the form that you filled in yourself, it says there that you've been charged in the Supreme Court case number 491, attempted murder and it says
"Still pending for outcome of this application"

PUMELELE GUMENGU: What happened is when I was arrested in 1990 for the coup, when I was refused a bail by the Attorney-General, he said that I had a pending case which is this one, so I went to him and asked him to explain this to me.  He said that the indemnity that I got was not recognised, so his advice was that I must make another application.  And at that time there was the Commission of Inquiry of Mr Dumbushana here in Umtata in 1991 or 1992.  I then made that application in the Supreme Court, but he answered me and said that he had cases, specified cases that he was supposed to look at, so I had to wait for this one.  That is the reason why I made this application because I realised that that first one was not recognised, but we were released from jail.

MR MALAN: Alright.  Mr Gumengu, you testified that you at some stage received several handgrenades, what's happened to them?  The South African M26 handgrenades.

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I said when I was arrested in January 1988, I handed my weapons over, the R4, the BXP, the AK and grenades.  What was always with me in the cell was the 9mm pistol.  These are the weapons I handed over to Capt Mfazwe.

MR MALAN: Did you use any of the handgrenades at any stage?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: No, I did not use them.

MR MALAN: When you accompanied the deceased at the scene where he subsequently died, did you have any handgrenades with you on that particular day?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: No, I only had a 9mm with me.

MR MALAN: You testified that it was part of your orders in any event to execute Mr Zokwe.  At what time did you intend to do that?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: At any opportunity, at any right opportunity that I had found.  I was supposed to execute the orders at the right time.