Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-11-18

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry.  We should place on record, I think, that it has been agreed that the leader of evidence will reserve her cross-examination of Mr Bellingan until she has managed to obtain certain other information.  However, so as not to waste time, it has been agreed that the second applicant, Mr Mbelo, will commence his application and will give his evidence in-chief this afternoon and we will then adjourn till tomorrow.

MR P WILLIAMS: Thank you Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  Mr Mbelo will testify in Tswana.  	Mr Mbelo,

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mbelo, can we have your names in full?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Tikapela Johannes Mbelo.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Sorry about that.

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: (Duly sworn in, states).
EXAMINATION BY MR P WILLIAMS

MR P WILLIAMS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Mbelo, your formal application is contained on pages 224 until page 232.  Is that correct?  That is on form one.

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And then on page 233 you give some police background.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: You give a more detailed statement with regard to the facts and circumstances relevant to this amnesty application starting on page 234.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: Can you confirm that in paragraphs one, two and three you basically deal with your personal background and history?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And when did you join the South African Police?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: It was in 1981 in March.

MR P WILLIAMS: Can you inform the Committee how did you or how were you recruited into the South African, into the security branch of the South African Police Service?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

SISI KHAMPEPE: It is on.

MR P WILLIAMS: It is on.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Mbelo, (not translated).

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Okay.  I was recruited whilst I was doing my basic police training in Hammanskraal in 1982.  I was recruited by Colonel Baker so as to become a member of the security branch.

MR P WILLIAMS: Do you know when did you actually join the security branch?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: It was immediately after my completion of my police training in 1982.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, in paragraph five of your application you state that 15 policemen showed an interest in joining the security police and of the 15 only seven of you were selected, of which you were one.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, let us go to paragraph six.  When you joined the security police, did they tell you what your duties would entail?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: They never told me what my duties were going to be, but I was just told that we were going to be stationed in the security headquarters under the security headquarters battalion.

MR P WILLIAMS: And is it correct that you were then taken to
a farm known as Vlakplaas, a so-called anti-terrorist unit?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, when we got there we did not know what that farm was called.

MR P WILLIAMS: Can you tell the Commission when is the first time that you heard that this is actually called Vlakplaas?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: That was after a few days when I was at that farm.

MR P WILLIAMS: And can you confirm that the first two people that were based at Vlakplaas that you actually met were David Jikalanga and Almond Mufamela?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: During my training David Jikalanga was doing his training as well in Hammanskraal and he was one of the people who went to collect us from the college.

MR P WILLIAMS: And can you inform, confirm that members of the initials groups that you were part of were, included people like Joe Mamasela, Brian Galunga, Moses Shabalala and Mr Bellingan?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And your first mission was to patrol the Western Transvaal Border?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: In paragraph seven of your application you basically deal with, what you call, indoctrination, that you were indoctrinated about the so-called total onslaught which the ANC, the PAC and other liberation movements were waging against the apartheid regime.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: And you also state that it is common knowledge that the ANC, at that stage, wanted to make South Africa ungovernable and thereby create the conditions for the overthrow of the apartheid regime.

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: Can you tell the Committee, at
Vlakplaas itself, how did the people, who were based at Vlakplaas, how did they operate?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: At Vlakplaas we were split into a few groups.  The, we were in few numbers in these groups and each group had a leader.  We were spread throughout the provinces of South Africa.

MR P WILLIAMS: You confirm at that stage, you confirm that the groups were never, you never worked in a fixed group and that the groups often changed?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Chairperson.

MR P WILLIAMS: As was the testimony of Mr Bellingan?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: And you also confirm that you were requested by different regions of the security branch to go to a particular area and assist there?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: And that whenever you were in a specific town for a specific operation, that the local security police branch would assist you there?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: In paragraph nine of your application you confirm that you have seen Minister Adriaan Vlok there at the party on one occasion.  This is also confirmed by Mr Bellingan and, in an affidavit, by, from Mr Adriaan Vlok himself.  Is that correct?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Sir.

MR P WILLIAMS: In paragraph ten you say that apart from or that you were part of a group called C10 and that apart from C10, there were also other groups like C11, that you were unaware of the activities of the other groups?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.

MR P WILLIAMS: Paragraph 11 you mention that you frequented shebeens and hotels.  Can you tell the Commission what was the purpose of that?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: We had to visit hotels and shebeens in order to scan the areas and at train stations so that the askaris should be able to identify all the people that they were trained with in exile.

MR P WILLIAMS: Okay, Mr Mbelo, let us come to the substantive part of your application.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, before you go on, can I ask something at this stage.  Do I understand from what you have just said that the idea was that the askaris should go to as many public places as possible where they would see other people in the hope of being able to recognise people they had trained with?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so, Chairperson.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, let us deal with the substantive part of, when is the very first time that you visited Cape Town for this particular mission?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: It was in the beginning of 1986 when we came here to Cape Town for this Guguletu 7 mission.

MR P WILLIAMS: Now, prior to 1986, were you ever in the Western Cape or in Cape Town?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: No, it was not my first time.

MR P WILLIAMS: But before 1986 you came here in, with regard to other activities, not so?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: It was missions that had nothing to do with Guguletu 7.

MR P WILLIAMS: And is it correct that when you came down to Cape Town you were accompanied by Mr Eric Maluleka, amongst others, Mr Jimmy Mbane, Mr Bellingan and Captain Moss, who
we learnt, at that stage, was a Warrant Officer?

TIKAPELA JOHANNES MBELO: Yes, it is so.