Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR NTSEBEZA: What is your view about an attitude that is held by some that the UBJ was formed notwithstanding the existence of SASJ precisely because there were shortcomings in SASJ, and that those that went into UBJ felt that they were not properly represented by SASJ or SASJ could not articulate their aspirations as black journalists?

MS MAYET: All I can say to that is that it's entirely possible.  I'm not sure, I can't remember you know, it's such a long time ago, but I'm not even sure whether blacks were allowed to be members of SASJ.  I may be wrong, I'm not sure about that.

MR NTSEBEZA: Now if you look back, speaking just about yourself, if you look back, would you say that the Union of Black Journalists was formed because black journalists felt that they had aspirations that necessarily did not find expression in what was commonly white institutions like the SASJ? Even if it is for the reasons that you state, namely, that only white journalists could form themselves into unions that were recognised by the apartheid estate?

MS MAYET: Well as I say UBJ was formed because we felt there was a necessity for us to unify and to try in various ways to improve ourselves as journalists and to improve our situations, you know, at work.

MR NTSEBEZA: Ja I think the point that I want to make, and you of course cannot make it if you are not able to make it, was the UBJ formed to cater for aspirations of black journalists as black journalists?

MS MAYET: Yes, yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Was it because the Journalist Union that was there was perceived by those black journalists as serving white interests only or unable to articulate black interests in the way in which black journalists would have wanted them to be articulated?

MS MAYET: I would agree with that, yes.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you Mr Chair.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Dumisa, Hugh.

MR LEWIN: Juby, if I could just ask one question about the relationship between journalists and politics, because we heard yesterday a great deal, we had a great deal of discussion about this. I've got two questions actually but the first is in relation to that.  	The experience of UBJ members seems from your testimony and also from history to have been one of total confrontation with the then government, so that people like Joe Thlolwe, like Zwelake Sisulu, like yourself spent a large amount of time in detention. Do you thing that was inevitable at that stage?

MS MAYET: Ja, I guess I would say that.  I don't think the system liked us very much at all.  I don't think they liked the way we wrote about what was happening, so whether we were politically inclined in whichever way at all or not, this was going to happen.  I personally was not a political person.  The problem here is that in this country, if you were black, you were political whether you liked it or not because politics bound up your whole life. Politics was where you lived, where you worked, who you slept with, what bus you took, you know, the whole thing. So whether or not you were a political person, which I was not, I still became a political person, but I was a journalist first and foremost and I think I can safely say that of most of my colleagues at that time.

MR LEWIN: Taking that a step forward into what we have to do which is to write a report giving recommendations to Parliament about the future, do you think that that applies still?  Are there any lessons from the past in terms of the relationship between say journalists and government and the role of the journalists?

MS MAYET: It's a difficult question that.  I will say this. Journalists should feel free to do their jobs and not have to worry about who's watching me, who's tapping my phone, who's going to do this, that or the other to me if I write this story. They should feel free to do their jobs properly, conscientiously and with truth always the first in mind.

MR LEWIN: And my second question relates to the fact that you were working as a journalist long before most of the people in this room were born.

MS MAYET: I'm not that old.  (laughter)

MR LEWIN: We did work together so I can claim to be the same age.

MS MAYET: Yes, okay.

MR LEWIN: No but the fact was that you were one of the only women journalists.  Have you thought about this and where do you think we should go from here?  What can be done about that?

MS MAYET: That's a difficult question.  I've always been weird, you know, so I suppose that's why I became a journalist.  Most other women aren't weird, you know I'm weird.

MR LEWIN: I think we'll take that as a definition. Thanks very much.  (laughter) .

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Hugh. I don't know, we'll probably have to look into it but this must be a record.  I mean at least the re-born UBJ came into being in '75. It seems to have been formed somewhere around '73.  But the time that it was really becoming active and the time that you became involved, that was in '75.

MS MAYET: That's correct yes.

ADV POTGIETER: And then it was banned in '77.  I mean within two years. It might be a record.  I mean we'lllook into that.  And I suppose what you're saying is that the fact that it was a black organisation has attracted the attention of the authorities and that's when you were on this collision course. No matter what you did, I mean you say that basically you were striving to advance the interests of your members, I mean you're not a political organisation as such.

MS MAYET: No.

ADV POTGIETER: So I mean it seems by definition, just the fact that you were a black organisation that that sort of resulted in this sort of instant banning.

MS MAYET: Ja, that's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: But at least I note that you say that you had at least more fun in those times than now because you seem to have been quite resourceful.  You had a new constitution for a new association immediately available and so forth.

MS MAYET: Right.

ADV POTGIETER: So ...(intervention)

MS MAYET: We were on the ball.

ADV POTGIETER: Oh sure.  (laughter).   But I want to thank you for having come and at least to share the story of UBJ.  It's important for us to take note of stories like this, the role that was played by organisations and individuals like yourself and your colleagues that you've referred to.  I have noted from the material that we've got that you haven't shared your entire personal experience with us which has been much much more extensive in terms of bannings and personal sacrifices and so on, but we've noted that and we're grateful that you at least came and brought the story to us. Thank you very much.

MS MAYET: Thank you.
UNIONS - MWASA

ADV POTGIETER: The next two witnesses are still from the unions, we're still looking at the situation of the experience of the unions.  In this instance it's MWASA and it is the two persons who would be making their presentations, Tseliso Ralitabo and Zakes Nene, not Jakes as it's given on the programme.  Can I call them forward please?	Gentlemen good morning and welcome.  Just before you relax completely I'm just going to administer an oath to you, so I'll do it jointly.

TSELISO RALITABO: (sworn states)

ZAKES NENE: (sworn states)

ADV POTGIETER: You may be seated and relax completely now.  Dumisa Ntsebeza will facilitate your testimony.