Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did you open up a case?

WITNESS:   Where would be open the case?  We never did open a case.  I only heard over the radio when a certain policeman admitted that he killed Simon and the policeman was crying.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What's the name of the policeman?

WITNESS:   I heard over the radio because this policeman was asking for amnesty and I asked myself as to when was he arrested.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, according to what you are saying, the people who abducted your son and his friend were the stability unit as well as the KwaZulu/Natal Police.

WITNESS:   It was police as well as the stability unit and I was told to remain at home.  So my daughters were going around  reporting the matter.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, how did they feature into the whole thing because you had an altercation with the induna.  Now, were did the police come from?

WITNESS:   We were branded as ANC criminals, that's how they called the police to come and attack us.  And when I sat down and spoke to the police telling them that there was nothing of the sort, they said I was a criminal myself - the white police.  When I go to KwaMbonambi they would make me a laughing stock.  They said my child was a criminal.  And I asked them as to why they had killed him if he was a criminal.  He should have been arrested and not killed.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And was your son buried?  What happened at the funeral?

WITNESS:   We never slept at home on that particular day because the police were frequenting our place and we used to sleep at the forest.  During the day or at night they would come and urinate on my child's grave and at times they would mess it up and I would go and report the matter to the police but the police said there was nothing they could do.  The very same police destroyed my home and I did not know the reason why they were doing it.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did you get the death certificate?

WITNESS:   I do not remember getting it because even if I did get some documents the police used to come and search the place and they would ransack it and take all the important documents.  They took my ID as well.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What do you know about Van Niekerk?

WITNESS:   Yes, I understand the policeman who said he killed my son was Van Niekerk.  Maybe it's because I'm old and I'm a bit deaf but I think they said it was Van Niekerk.  Now, I  say I want Van Niekerk to come and speak the truth and I want him to tell the whole world as to who sent him because I went to Velbang(?) and Duffle - Duffle - I could speak to Duffle at some stage and there was a certain policeman called Mpotosi.  That is the one who came after they had killed Musa.  They killed Musa.  That's when the policeman from Mpotosi ran away.  Velbang was from KwaMbonambi and he's the one who was sending them to come and attack people.  Here it is Duffle.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Then it's Van Niekerk?

WITNESS:   I'm not really sure as to whether it is Van Niekerk who's arrested and who's asking for amnesty.  Then there was a certain policeman from Mpotosi but he has moved away now.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What is Mpotosi?

WITNESS:   It's a shop.  It was called Mpotosi and this person bought the shop and he owned the shop but at the same time they say he was a policeman.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, we want to come to the conclusion of this matter.  Now, would you please tell us what your expectations are from this Commission.  You've gone to the police to report the matter and you also went to the chief.  Now you've come to us.  What are your expectations from this Commission?

WITNESS:   I want the people who killed my sons to come forward because this is a time for reconciliation.  I want to forgive them and I also have a bit of my mind to tell them.  I would be happy if they could come before me because I don't have sons today.  Their father died at an early age and I put them through school.  Now, they've never been criminals.  They've never had any problems, even with  the neighbours.  They were Christians.

KHOZA MGOJO:  So you say you want to see your son's killers?

WITNESS:   That is correct and I also want to speak to them because I want to speak to them before I forgive them.  I want them to tell me who sent them to come and kill my sons.  Maybe they are my enemies, maybe they are not.  So I want to establish as to who they are and why they did what they did.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is there anything else that you'd like to say to this Commission?

WITNESS:   I wish that there could be a thorough investigation as to who sent these policemen.  I know that I might probably not sleep at home today.  Maybe they're looking at me even now because I've survived so many attacks.  I'm staying at KwaSokhulu.  When my second son died - Si, my son, left the place.  After he died - he died just after he had prepared the fields and re-fenced them.  I'm still staying there and the induna is still alive.  I went to him during August and I wanted him to sign a certain document so that Mondi could come and plough my fields and he could not sign the document.  He refused.  The chief is also alive and they're very close with the induna and they do not want to have any dealings with me.  The name of the chief is Mhloleni Mthiyani.  Now I'm scared to face him because I suspect that he could even kill me.

KHOZA MGOJO: You have related your story to us.  We will try and investigate the matter further.  If there's a need for us to see the chief as well as the induna and the police that you have mentioned in your testimony - because now that there's this government we do not want people to be still violated.  We thank you for your courage as well  as your son's courage that he refused to hand over his father's land.  He died as a hero fighting for what he believed in, fighting for his rights.  You should also be proud that your son died as a hero and he re-fenced the place.  They killed him because he had done that but he died as a hero.  We shall try all that is in our power to find some answers to your questions as to who sent the people who killed your son, whether they were sent by the chief or the induna and where do the police feature in as far as this is concerned because they were supposed to be the law keepers.  They are supposed to be the ones who protect the community that is at threat but now the very same police have turned to be criminals and they attack the community.  We thank you for your courage and as you say that you're still getting threats, you have shown so much courage.  Thank you.

MRS GCABASHE: Mrs Msweli, there's just a few questions that I want to ask you.  I want to take you back to the altercation that you had with the induna.  Why did the induna choose you in particular?  Did you ever have a problem with him before?

WITNESS:   We had a good relationship with the induna's father whilst he was still alive and the induna himself who was kind towards me and I don't know when did this change because he ended up saying I had a very big place which needed to be divided and sold and there were certain white people who came who were building the gum-trees.  They said we should move to another place but Msweli at that time refused to move from that place because he was self-employed.  That was his sole source of living.  He said that he was going to fix the land for himself because he  /wanted