Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1997-02-10

BONGANI FINCA: Mrs Rose Hobana, we welcome you.  We thank you for coming before the Commission this morning.  Reverend Xundu is going to administer an oath to you just before you give your evidence.  Thereafter he will be leading you with questions on behalf of the Commission.  Thank you.
 Who is the one next to you?

ROSE HOBANA: She is a witness.

BONGANI FINCA: What is her name?

ROSE HOBANA: Lydia Dyantyi.  Lydia Dyantyi.  We welcome you Amelia Dyantyi.  As the witness who is accompanying Mrs Rose Hobana, and because you will be talking here, you will also take an oath.  Thank you.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  I am going to start with you Rose Hobana.

ROSE HOBANA: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  I am coming to you Amelia Dyantyi.

AMELIA DYANTYI: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Mr Chairperson, they are sworn in.  Mrs Hobana, you are here today to testify about the death or Sebenzile Jacobs.   I would therefor request you to tell us briefly, giving us the full picture of the incidents of the time until the day of his death.

ROSE HOBANA: In 1984, on the 15th of April it was at
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night, I was in the house with my husband, the children came
to tell me that Sebenzile, my son, was stabbed at Sekolho Street.  We arranged transport, we were going up and down looking for transport to go there.
 But when we got there, we were told that he was in Galawe.  I found him there, he was laying there, dead.   And the people of that place said he said his parents should be told what happened.
 The police came to fetch him.  The following day in the morning, Sebenzile's friend who was with him at the time, gave us more information.  He told us that they were toyi-toying, but they decided to go back to the house to see his girlfriend.
 The Gwali family was chasing them and Sebenzile ran away.  Amelia came, the one who is next to me.  She is the one who gave me the full information, he was so brave to come and tell me.
 Therefor I request her to say something.

REV XUNDU: Tell me, was Sebenzile a scholar at the time?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, he was doing standard 8.

REV XUNDU: Is Fezile also a scholar?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Was Fezile a member of any organisation?

ROSE HOBANA: I am not sure, I don't know anything about him.

REV XUNDU: Let us come to you Amelia.  Can you please tell us Amelia Dyantyi and give us your picture so as to help the Commission to know what happened?

AMELIA DYANTYI: I was standing in front of my house.  The people who were toyi-toying went passed, I can't remember the person who was dead at the time.  They were facing the
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Xalata direction.  
 After the people who were toyi-toying had disappeared, it was when here at Lingaliqi the police were assaulting people.  This child came from another direction, he was being chased by three people.
 We also ran into the house, I peeped through the window and I could see that it was a human being.  The other people were holding a torch, there was one gentleman by the name of Pa from the Gwali family, he was also holding a torch.
 Fezile's father was holding this child.  Fezile was stabbing the child.

REV XUNDU: What time was it?  What time was it?

AMELIA DYANTYI: It was at about eight o'clock.

REV XUNDU: Was Fezile a scholar also?

AMELIA DYANTYI: Yes, he was a scholar.  It was during the times when the schools were disturbed in Cradock, but he used to go to school.  He used to be accompanied by the police van.

REV XUNDU: What was the cause of this conflict, was it because of the quarrel among the neighbours or was it school related or was it the boycott?

AMELIA DYANTYI: It was the people of Lingaliqi community.

REV XUNDU: I want to know, were they quarrelling because of political reasons?  I want to clarify this question.  It usually happens that the children would fight in some places because of different reasons, maybe the would fight over a girlfriend, sometimes they would fight because of their different ideas.
 So I just want to know what was the cause of their quarrel.  Was it because of the different opinions from different political organisations at school?
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AMELIA DYANTYI: I don't know.

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, there was a conflict.  It was during the time when Goniwe was taken out of the school.
 Fezile was on the side of the police and my son was on the side of Goniwe.

REV XUNDU: Thank you, you have given us a better light that they were fighting because of different opinions in political organisations.
 Was there any investigation, were there any charges laid after this incident?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, Fezile was arrested.  We were requested to make a statement.  Goniwe and Xwalata were in prison in Gauteng at that time, but the case didn't go on.  When Goniwe was released, they began to investigate the case.
 There was another conflict between the Gwali family and Goniwe.  After that, Goniwe died.  Then the case ended there.

REV XUNDU: Do you mean that the court didn't do anything about this case of Fezile?

ROSE HOBANA: ; No, there was nothing that happened.

REV XUNDU: The situation in the community, how was it?  Were there police working within the law or maybe they used to do whatever pleased them at the time?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, they were doing whatever they wanted to.  They used to take the law into their hands.  But I requested them to bury my child, because at the time I didn't have money, they referred me to Goniwe to bury my child.
 Then I had no alternative, I had to bury my child.

REV XUNDU: Did you lay any charges with the hope of getting compensation because of this?

ROSE HOBANA: After that, they left Cradock because of
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pressure from the community.

REV XUNDU: Where is Fezile now?

ROSE HOBANA: Fezile is in Alice.  There are people that we know in Alice, we are going to ask them for more information.  The whole family left.

REV XUNDU: It seems that people run away to Alice.  Oliphant went to Digene and now he went to Digene as well.  As you are here today, it is obvious that you must have a request or a wish that you would like to tell the Commission because of the death of your son?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, I have a request.

REV XUNDU: Can you please tell us?

ROSE HOBANA: First of all my child died when he was doing standard 8 and I was working as a domestic worker, trying to educate my child.  He used to have casual jobs during weekends, trying to help me.
 Secondly I buried my child alone.  I only got R250-00 from the organisation.
 Thirdly I cannot do anything for my child, I cannot afford a tombstone for my child.  I would like the Commission to help me in trying to erect a tombstone for my son.

REV XUNDU: Are you talking about something like a tombstone?  Are you talking about a tombstone?

ROSE HOBANA: Yes, and I also request some compensation because since the death of my son, I was never - I am not healthy, I am sick.  I usually go and see a Doctor, sometimes.

REV XUNDU: I thought that I had finished everything concerning this matter, but I think my colleagues might have some questions.
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BONGANI FINCA: June Crichton?

JUNE CRICHTON: I think it is possible that Amelia might answer this question for me and I am sorry that I have to take you back to it, but I think she said - can you hear me Amelia?  When you were speaking, you mentioned that Fezile's father was present at the time of Sebenzile's death and that he was holding him down.  Did I hear correctly, while he was being stabbed by Fezile he was being held down by the father of Fezile?

AMELIA DYANTYI: Yes, he was holding him.

JUNE CRICHTON: That's all I wanted to know.

BONGANI FINCA: Tiny Maya?