Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-13

WITNESS:  You said:  "Die regterbeen."

MR BERGER: You were then asked by the Court, when were you in hospital for the second time, and your answer was in 1993, "... ek is nie seker van die datum nie."

MR BERGER: Now let me just get to the point, when you were in hospital the first time when you were shot in the left leg, that was on the 17th of August 1992.  On that day a bullet was removed from your left thigh.  So what I want to put to you is that the attacks that you are talking about took place after the attack on Boipatong, and not before.

JACK MBELE: I agree with you when you say - yes, the left leg was shot after the Boipatong incident.

MR BERGER: And the right thigh was shot even later, according to your evidence at the criminal trial in 1993?

JACK MBELE: I was shot twice on the right leg in 1991 and yet the other time.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you just repeat the answer.

JACK MBELE: I say I was shot twice on the right leg, I was first shot before the incident of Boipatong, and I was shot another time after the incident, which was in 1993, that Mr Berger has referred to.

CHAIRPERSON: Was that on your right leg?

JACK MBELE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: At your criminal trial, how many times did you say you had been shot, twice or three times?

JACK MBELE: I do not remember how many times did I say I was shot.

MR BERGER: You mentioned that you were arrested once by Sergeant Peens.

JACK MBELE: He did not arrest me.

MR BERGER: He was there when you were arrested, what were you arrested for?

JACK MBELE: We were - it was being alleged that we were the hit-squad from kwaMadala Hostel.

MR BERGER: Is it correct that you were involved in criminal activities in the Sharpeville area?

JACK MBELE: No.

MR BERGER: Were you friendly with a person by the name of Dennis Mofokeng?

JACK MBELE: Yes.

MR BERGER: And you and he were involved in criminal activities in Sharpeville.  As a result of that you fled to kwaMadala.

JACK MBELE: I knew Dennis after I went to kwaMadala, and from then onwards he became my friend.

MR BERGER: Were you and Dennis accused of being involved in hit-squads operating from kwaMadala?

JACK MBELE: Dennis was not involved, I was the only one being accused of that.

MR BERGER: You say that you never entered any houses and you never killed any people.

JACK MBELE: Yes.

MR BERGER: According to the evidence of Mr Bujose, you entered a house on the corner of Shlube and Bafokeng Street.  Would that be correct?

JACK MBELE: That is not correct.

MR BERGER: According to Mr Maloi who was a state witness, you and others were seen coming out of a house with a duvet, a television set and a wall-clock.  Would that be correct?

JACK MBELE: That is not correct.

MR BERGER: In your criminal trial you said that you'd been shot in the upper leg, and you had been taken to hospital two weeks before - I beg your pardon, and two weeks before the 17th of June you were discharged.  Is it correct that that incident that you were referring to was the incident which occurred after the attack on Boipatong?

JACK MBELE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Now the house on the corner of Shlube and Bafokeng Streets is house no 734 Bafokeng.  In that house two people were killed, Mr Andries Manyeke, age 50, and Ms Lena Manyeke, age 47.

MR LAX: Sorry Mr Berger can you just give us the paragraph numbers just to help us, that you're referring to in your memo.

MR BERGER: I'm referring to the Annexure, and it's pages 14 and 15 of the Annexure, the last three pages of the document.

MR LAX: So it starts at the bottom of page 14, no 734?

MR BERGER: That is correct yes.

MR LAX: Thanks.

MR BERGER: And that house is on the corner of Bafokeng and Shlube Streets.  Mr Manyeke was stabbed above his waist;  he had back wounds;  he was chopped in the back of the head, and he was also shot above his right eye.  Ms Lena Manyeke was stabbed all over her body, her chest, her head, and there were too many stab wounds to count.  Wasn't the state witness Bujose correct when he said that you entered that house, and doesn't it follow that you were part of a group of people who attacked and killed Andries and Lena Manyeke?

JACK MBELE: I was not part of that group.

MR BERGER: You see, the other thing that is interesting is, is that according to Mr Bujose you emerged from a house, another house, carrying certain property.  And very close to 734 is 722 Bafokeng Street, and in that house Matilda Shloebe was killed, Elizabeth Shloebe was injured, and Paw-Paw Shloebe was killed.  But what's really interesting is what was stolen from that house.  A TV set was stolen, and amongst other things, a duvet was also stolen.  Two of the items which Mr Bujose - I beg your pardon, Mr Maloi said he saw you carrying out of that house, you and a group of other.  Is this just co-incidental Mr Mbele?

JACK MBELE: He made a big mistake that person.

MR BERGER: Are you saying you were not in the area of Bafokeng Street at all?

JACK MBELE: You see, I do not know Boipatong very well when it comes to streets, but I did not get into the houses, he is making a mistake.

MR BERGER: Were you together with Sonny Michael Mkwanazi, in Boipatong?

JACK MBELE: I only remember Makuka, Simon and Gose.

MR LAX: Sorry Mr Berger, would you just repeat the names, I didn't catch all of them when you asked the question.

MR BERGER: Mr Lax it's one person, his name is Sonny Michael Mkwanazi, he's applicant no 7.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR BERGER: Are you saying that you might have been with him, you can't remember, or you were not with him?

JACK MBELE: I am saying I did not encounter him where I was.

MR BERGER: And Timothy Stals Mazibuko, applicant no 5, were you with ...

JACK MBELE: No.

MR BERGER: Is it correct that the three of you, applicant no 5 and applicant no 7 and yourself, are the three youngest members of the group of applicants?

JACK MBELE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: And you're saying the three of you are not friends - were not friends at the time?

JACK MBELE: We were friends at that time.

MR BERGER: Surely if you were friends, you would have gone to Boipatong - gone on the attack together?

JACK MBELE: I did not know how the next person felt.  You know, we are different when it comes to emotions.

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, the - what counsel is putting to you is that because you were friends, you must have gone to Boipatong together.

JACK MBELE: I do not agree with him.

MR BERGER: What room were you staying in at kwaMadala Hostel?

JACK MBELE: 2023.

MR BERGER: And what room was Timothy Mazibuko in?

JACK MBELE: 2002.

MR BERGER: And Mr Mkwanazi, Sonny Mkwanazi?

JACK MBELE: 2002 as well.

MR BERGER: Was your room close to their room?

JACK MBELE: Yes, nextdoors.

MR BERGER: And when the signal came that you must go to the stadium that night, the night of the 17th, surely you went there together, you, Sonny and Timothy?

JACK MBELE: No.

MR BERGER: Did you see them at the stadium?

JACK MBELE: Yes, I saw them.

MR BERGER: Surely you went to stand with them?

JACK MBELE: No.

MR BERGER: Why not?

JACK MBELE: There was no reason for me to stand with them.

MR BERGER: Were you standing with other friends?

JACK MBELE: I was just in a group of people, I would not say who was next to me.

MR BERGER: You were a very young man at the time, I take it that you were quite nervous about participating in the attack, or am I wrong?

JACK MBELE: I was not nervous.

MR BERGER: So you never felt the need to go and associate yourself with people who you were friendly with?

JACK MBELE: Not necessarily that, there was no need.  But there was no reason for me to go and stand next to them, we were all inside the hostel.

MR BERGER: And when you left the hostel and you moved to Boipatong, did you move together with Timothy and Sonny?

JACK MBELE: I would not say whether they also left.  I did not see them, I saw the other men who stayed in the hostel.