Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And you knew that at the time of those meetings?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Very well.  Koesterfontein, did you know on that Sunday evening who was based at Koesterfontein?

MR SMIT: What do you mean by that?

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I mean the persons who were at Koesterfontein on Sunday evening.

MR SMIT: Well I knew that Koper Myburgh lived there, it was his farm.  I knew that Cliff Barnard was with him.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And who else?

MR SMIT: And the so-called Koekemoer.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Only those three?

MR SMIT: That I knew of.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KRIEL

ADV PRIOR: Chairperson, just one or two aspects.
	Mr Smit, do you know Fred Rundle?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

ADV PRIOR: Apparently during the criminal proceedings he testified in order to mitigate his sentence, is that correct?

MR SMIT: Not when I was present.

ADV PRIOR: Didn't take any further interest after your conviction?

MR SMIT: Sir, I also have a job to see to.

MR BRACHER: Just answer the question.

MR SMIT: No, I wasn't involved in it any further.

ADV PRIOR: According to a newspaper report of 2nd April 1996, on page 12 of Annexure A, for these proceedings, Mr Rundle was called as a witness and according to the report under oath he said that the AWB never gave instructions to members to plant bombs in order to disrupt the elections.

MR SMIT: As far as I know I cannot testify according to his evidence.

ADV PRIOR: Is that surprising to you?

MR SMIT: Definitely.

ADV PRIOR: That on he on behalf of the applicants, during the criminal proceedings, that he testified this?

MR SMIT: Well it is surprising to me now.  I think that he would have incriminated himself in a number of matters if he had admitted.

ADV PRIOR: Even before the trial on April 26, 1994 in Business Day, on behalf of the AWB, Rundle also denied that the bomb explosions could be ascribed to the AWB.

MR SMIT: I can't give evidence regarding that.

ADV PRIOR: Is it your evidence that Mr Prinsloo had direct instructions for the AWB to plant these bombs?

MR SMIT: From Mr Eugene Terreblanche and the fellow generals in staff.

ADV PRIOR: As I understand the issue Rundle would have liaised with Terreblanche, he couldn't simply make utterances.  He would have been briefed or told what to announce to the world.  He couldn't personally make any kind of announcement, he would be speaking on behalf of the AWB, is that not so?

MR SMIT: That's correct, but I could also ask other people to lie on my behalf.

ADV PRIOR: One final aspect.  The preparations for the manufacturing of the bombs and the transportation of the bombs, is it your evidence that for the first time, regarding you, you came to hear of it, on the game farm?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

ADV PRIOR: And you were the person who would have asked: "How are we going to build the bomb and what is our equipment?"

MR SMIT: No, I didn't ask that, I was present when we discussed it.

ADV PRIOR: For the first time?

MR SMIT: For the first time.

ADV PRIOR: Did you know that they were going to use Mr Terreblanche's trailer?

MR SMIT: No, I heard about that for the first time in the meeting.

ADV PRIOR: And a grass roller which was on the farm purely by coincidence?

MR SMIT: I have no knowledge of a grass roller.

ADV PRIOR: What contribution did the Natalers have in the whole affair?

MR SMIT: They were members of the rest of the group.

ADV PRIOR: Why were the proceedings at Koesterfontein so secretive, or kept secret from the other people on the game farm?

MR SMIT: Well my honest opinion is that any military action which was to follow should be kept secret until a certain stage.

ADV PRIOR: And the statements made by the AWB which appear on page 13 of Annexure A, that according to Mr Rundle once again, this was on the 22nd of April 1994, and I quote
"We are not planning to act aggressively, however if our people are attacked, the attackers will get to do with the entire power of the AWB.  Furthermore, no we are not going to disrupt the elections.   What should we do to achieve this, physically prevent people from reaching the ballot boxes?  We're not going to do that because we are not kaffirs"

MR SMIT: I cannot testify regarding his evidence.

ADV PRIOR: Is it not true that this small group at Koesterfontein had their own agenda?

MR SMIT: That's not true, that had absolutely nothing to do with the agenda of the AWB, not at all.

ADV PRIOR: It would appear as such.

MR SMIT: But that's your opinion.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Abie Fourie said that regarding him it was more patrolling and the protection of farms and farmers and so forth.

MR SMIT: That was the initial call-up instruction to get people there.

ADV PRIOR: When did it change?

MR SMIT: On the game farm during the closed meeting.

ADV PRIOR: On the Sunday evening?

MR SMIT: Well I talk - probably the Sunday evening, when it was said that we would disrupt the elections.

ADV PRIOR: And according to you Mr Prinsloo has to assume the entire responsibility for that decision?

MR SMIT: He gave the direct order.

ADV PRIOR: Without that you would have continued with the ordinary patrolling?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY ADV PRIOR

MS VAN DER WALT: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Smit, were you present here during the previous session of this hearing?

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

ADV BOSMAN: Can you tell at which stage you went home from the game farm?

MR SMIT: The afternoon of the 26th of April 1994.

ADV BOSMAN: And when were you arrested?

MR SMIT: In Pretoria.  I went to my parent's house, not to my own house.

ADV BOSMAN: Why did you go there?

MR SMIT: I didn't have any further interests there.

ADV BOSMAN: Didn't you think that the war should continue?

MR SMIT: I felt that it would be continued on the morning of the 27th of April.

ADV BOSMAN: And where did you think you would be on that morning?

MR SMIT: We would go back to the shooting range outside Rustenberg.

UNKNOWN: Can I just get this right, you were arrested in Pretoria, where were you arrested?

MR SMIT: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: One other question.  As part of the strategic planning group or that group of leaders, how did you plan to co-ordinate your effort with the efforts of the people at Koesterfontein for instance, and the other "punte" that you knew to be operational points?  You know, where others had gathered to do what you were supposed to be doing.  How were you going to co-ordinate your activities?

MR SMIT: That would have been co-ordinated by means of radio communication.

UNKNOWN: But your radio didn't work, you have told us that.

MR SMIT: Yes, that's what I just said.

UNKNOWN: So how would you know that one of the other groups had not targeted, for instance Johannesburg Airport?

MR SMIT: Personally I wouldn't have known that.

UNKNOWN: But you were part of the general planning around the bombing?  I just use that as one example.  I'm just visualising this, your group could be arriving to bomb Bree Street, any particular place, Germiston, another group could be arriving to do exactly the same thing, you have no radio contact with head office, how would you avoid chaos in your own ranks?

MR SMIT: As far as I know our order was to do with the Rand, the North Western East Rand, so the other groups and the other members and the other leaders had their own orders.

UNKNOWN: And just to get this absolutely right, at no stage did Terreblanche come and visit you, either at Koesterfontein, at the game farm or at the shooting range, is that correct?

MR SMIT: That's correct.