Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-02

MR BLACK: What seems to have been hidden also in one of your answers, in these questions, is that you did also state initially, before Mr Chairman started asking you and I think while he was reading from the notes, that you didn't want anything made known - that is my note.  You wanted nothing to be made known at the scene, at what had taken place at the scene. That's why you didn't make accurate records and you didn't also - your second reason is, you admitted that you didn't act professionally.  Do you recall saying that?

A J G ERWEE: No, I can't say that I remember.  What I can say is that the concealment wasn't so much - the concealment was to actually conceal the whole causal chain of events.  That would obviously include the exact place on the Breslau Road.

MR BLACK: So part of your not recording and photographing and drawing an accurate record of the scene, was in order to conceal what had taken place and where the event had taken place.  Is that correct?

A J G ERWEE: That is correct.  That is why I explained about the notes which I handed in.  I explained why I thought I needed to protect certain constitutional interests and perhaps also the information network and informants and so on.  That was part of my motivation.

MR BLACK: And it wasn't simply just to clear the road because some farmers might come along and the public might come along.

A J G ERWEE: No, there was a lot more at stake, yes, than just clearing the road.

MR BLACK: Now this inquest which - oh, yes. Was, as far as the tape-recording is concerned, which you say you didn't listen to, did you ever draw either of your - well, first of all before we get there.  Who were your superiors, who did you regard as your superiors?  Was Col Van der Merwe your superior, for example?

A J G ERWEE: No, he was my commanding officer, Col Willem van der Merwe and Brig Coetsee was the second in command.

MR BLACK: Okay. Did you ever draw their attention to the fact that there existed a tape-recording of this - no matter how, of your questioning of the wounded man?

A J G ERWEE: No.

MR BLACK: Did you ever discuss with either Brig Coetsee or Col Van der Merwe that you intended to mislead the Court deliberately, the Court which was going to hold the inquest, before you decided to do that?

A J G ERWEE: No, I didn't do that.

MR BLACK: So on whose authority did you take it upon yourself to mislead the Court and to in fact, instruct other members of the security force to mislead the Court?

UNKNOWN: Excuse me, Mr Chairman, if I may interrupt. Could my learned friend just explain where the misleading of the Court is that he is talking about?  Because that has not been identified.

CHAIRPERSON: He is referring to the inquest.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I know, but what is the misleading aspect, Mr Chairman, because we certainly don't know what that is.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, the first sentence that you drew the attention of the witness to when he read his statement.  You remember you said to the witness that that is not, that is strictly not correct.

UNKNOWN: Is that what he is referring to now?

CHAIRPERSON: I think so.

MR BLACK: Well, with respect, I would say that it is not simply the one sentence, but the impression that was given to the Court by your entire watered-down statement and that of Mr Swarts, was not the correct impression. Is that correct?

A J G ERWEE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Not the correct version or it actually did not   reflect what had taken place. Let me put it that way.  And that I would - would you agree?

CHAIRPERSON: He says he agrees, he says that is correct.  And your question was - to come back to him before we lose it, you are actually, your question was on whose instructions.

MR BLACK: Yes, on whose instructions or on whose authority did you decide to - and I will use the word, mislead the Court, mislead the inquest inquiry?

A J G ERWEE: I took it upon myself to do that.

MR BLACK: But - and did you also take it upon yourself, if I assume, upon yourself to instruct Mr Swarts and Mr Dreyer and all other parties, not to give a correct version to the inquest inquiry?

A J G ERWEE: That's correct.

MR BLACK: So they also colluded with you in - that's Dreyer and Swarts - in not presenting all the correct evidence to the inquest inquiry. Is that correct?

A J G ERWEE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BLACK: But you go further in your statement, in your evidence, and you say that in so far as you were concerned, and you handed up as an exhibit, either E or F, that you gave reasons for why you did not tell the full facts to the inquiry, and one of the reasons is you ended up by saying that you believed that you were acting lawfully for the State.

A J G ERWEE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: Without getting into semantic debates, and ranks and all that, who did you regard as your seniors at the time?

A J G ERWEE: Col Willem van der Merwe and Brig Nick Coetsee.

MR BLACK: Okay. So you go on to say that you received no criticism for this action from your seniors or from the NIS. They did not object.

A J G ERWEE: I should just correct that. I didn't receive any criticism from my immediate superiors or from the Department of Justice, but I didn't make mention of National Intelligence.

MR BLACK: But now you see we have heard evidence to the effect that Col Van der Merwe only became aware of this incorrect version or statement of yours to the inquest inquiry, only about two months ago.

A J G ERWEE: That is correct.

MR BLACK: The first time that he was made aware of it.

A J G ERWEE: I accept that is correct.

MR BLACK: And I gather from him that he - whether it was criticism or not, but I gathered that he advised that it would be you, it would be advisable for you to apply for amnesty.

A J G ERWEE: No, Col Willem van der Merwe didn't move me to apply for amnesty.

MR BLACK: Now at this inquest from the information, documentation that I have, in my possession, I don't see there any mention made of the tape-recorder which was handed in as part of a record of the events.  Do you know if such a tape-recording was handed in?

A J G ERWEE: I don't know whether the recording was submitted.

MR BLACK: But it existed.

A J G ERWEE: I know about a tape-recording made by Col Van Dyk when we interrogated the deceased, that tape-recording must have lasted for about three minutes also.

MR BLACK: Yes.

A J G ERWEE: The one made by Col Van Dyk.

MR BLACK: Okay.  Then no information was given to the inquest inquiry by Col Van Dyk either, having looked at the papers that have been given to me.  Is that correct?

A J G ERWEE: I accept that.

MR BLACK: The only version of events given to the inquest inquiry is your version, your statement and that of - I am not sure what his rank is, but Mr Swarts.  Is that so?

A J G ERWEE: According to my knowledge we were the only two, yes.

MR BLACK: Yes. I notice on page 16 of Section B, you made this statement or not a statement rather, it is an affidavit under oath.  You made that on the 11th of July.  That's the day after the event. B16 or C, sorry. C16.  Would that be correct?

A J G ERWEE: I don't have the document before me to check that.

ADV DE JAGER: Is that the date of your statement?

A J G ERWEE: My statement is dated 11th of July, that is true, that is the date after the incident, I accept that.

MR BLACK: And this was attested to before Johannes Hendrik van Dyk, a lieutenant.  Is he the same Van Dyk who was at the scene and who was supposed to gather information?

A J G ERWEE: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR BLACK: So he knew that you were not telling the truth?

A J G ERWEE: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR BLACK: And if you page over to 17, C17,this is the affidavit of Mr Swarts.

A J G ERWEE: Yes, Sir.