Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to call Nombenqana Albert Koti to the stand please.  Are you appearing for Mr Koti?

ADV MATUIS: That is correct Mr Commissioner.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Koti, we are going to request to swear you in before we hear your evidence.

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: The witness has been duly sworn in Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Matuis, you have submitted two memorandums to us.  One deals with Mdyogolo, Nosipho Angelina.  Perhaps let us start with that one.  It is a short memorandum, perhaps you could ask your client to quickly summarise it for us in Xhoza so that we can then direct some questions to him.

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: Chairperson and Committee Members, I am extremely disturbed by certain incidents where I was involved.  I Nombenqana Albert Koti are 46 years old, have made a sworn affidavit.  I am going to start with the incident regarding Mtandazeli Patrick Mdyogolo.
 In the above-mentioned year, 1984, although it is mentioned as 1985 here, I was in the employ of the South African Police as a reservist where I was from the 21st battalion of this army and we were based here in Grahamstown.
 At the time there were incidents of riots and I was with recruits where we were patrolling Raglan Road and
Albert Street because cars were being attacked in Rockland Road.  
 We were patrolling those areas.  As we were patrolling that street, we were called by Mr Junkin who had a shop in Albert Street, he stopped the van and when  he came to the van he reported to us that his shop had been broken into a few moments ago and that I should please take his children to James, a relative of his. 
 We heard on the radio in the van, Sergeant Dekeda reporting to the police in New Street that a boy was found (indistinct), where he had been deceased, but had no wounds.  Sergeant Dekeda was making this report from New Street.
 Junkin was called and I said to him can you see it is bad in Joshua as well and also Makanaskop Bottle Store had been broken into and Junkin was surprised by this and he took these, this man's children to James.
 In the next few days I heard rumours that Mtandazeli Patrick Mdyogolo had been shot by me.  I went to Junkin there and then and asked him if he had also heard these rumours that I had shot Patrick Mdyogolo at Jole's.  He then said to me that if they wanted me at court, they wanted him at court that they should contact them and he provided a number because he was with me at this time of the incident, and other policemen were deployed at Jole's.
 We then went to court.  Captain Nel was in charge at the time, we went to court.  Although I don't see him here in Grahamstown any more, he had the occurrence book of the charge office because when we are deployed to places it is recorded in the occurrence book who is deployed where and I was recorded as having been deployed at Fingo and he gave the explanation at court, saying that Koti was working at
Fingo Village and he had not gone to the other area.
 I was then acquitted, found not guilty and set free to go.

CHAIRPERSON: In her testimony Nosipho Angelina Mdyogolo said under oath that you Nombenqana Albert Koti did not participate in the killing of Mtandazeli because  you were in the van, so we just want to place on record that the witness did say that you weren't responsible, but the Commission would like to put a few questions to you in trying to establish the truth.
 Were you working in one group?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: I think there is  mix up somewhere.  You talk about Mdyogolo and then you talk about me having been in the van.  I think you are confusing the incidents here.

CHAIRPERSON: Which is the incident where they said you weren't involved?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: If I understand correctly the incident of Nontle Koliti, in the death of Nontle Koliti.

CHAIRPERSON: We are now talking about the Mdyogolo incident.  Do you say that you weren't even present there?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: No, I was not.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were not even present where this incident took place?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: But you were working as one group and you were a reservist in this group?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When you got back from your deploy, you would get together and report to each other so you knew exactly who had killed Mtandazeli?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: I never heard who had killed him because I was at
this other place because if you got back before the others, you would make your report and then go off duty.

CHAIRPERSON: Who did you report to?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: We reported at the charge office.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was in charge?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: It was Captain Nel.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where Captain Nel finds himself these days?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: No, I do not know because he was transferred to Port Elizabeth while I was still here and I don't know what became of him.

CHAIRPERSON: So in your team it could happen that if someone was killed at any certain place, you would not get together at the end of the day and share your reports with each other?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: No, if an incident occurred anywhere, the people who were present there would report it before going off duty and it would be recorded.

CHAIRPERSON: Reverend Xundu?

REV XUNDU: I would like to put a question Mr Chairman, with regards to paragraph 3 where reference is made to Mtandazeli Patrick Mdyogolo, with reference to the turbulence and the political unrest.  If you say that there was a break in, it means that it had nothing to do with the politics of the time?  The break in at Mr Junkin's shop?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: It had to do with the toyi-toyi because some elements within the group, were criminal elements and while the toyi-toyi was taking place, they would participate with the intention of - with criminal intentions.

REV XUNDU: It is not very clear from this affidavit, that it had anything to do with the toyi-toyi.  It comes across as a criminal event, but I am trying to establish from you whether it had anything to do with the toyi-toyi?

NOMBENQANA ALBERT KOTI: Yes, it did.

CHAIRPERSON: Let us go to the second matter, the case of Elizabeth Koliti about the murder of Nontle Koliti.  We would one again like you to give us a summary of your affidavit in Xhoza.