Human Rights Violation Hearings — Worcester — 1996-06-24

MR KARIEM: Yes, it was Symington who was driving.  He went over the red lights in town and then when we got to the charge office of the police,  the woman constable asked what the charge was and then swearing Symington said that he would disregard the charge.  He then swore at the woman police officer and told her simply to book us.
We never knew what the charge was against us, we were simply booked and we were held under arrest without a charge.  We were then searched and they found a pamphlet in my pocket - I still have this pamphlet in my mother's car.  They then found the pamphlet in my pocket and then he put the pamphlet on the desk and then he gave instruction to the constable to write this down as my property.  This was a white woman but she was a gentle person.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you charged?

MR KARIEM: No we were not charged, we were just placed in the cells.  I was in a single cell and they then switched the light off so I don't know what happened to James.  When they put us together to charge us and have us appear in court it appeared that James was going to be taken to the De Doorns police cells but he insisted that they put him in the cells also in Worcester so we were in the cells in Worcester.
I am a smoker and we didn't have any cigarettes Orr anything.

ADV POTGIETER: For how long were you kept under arrest?

MR KARIEM: For two days.  Then on the Wednesday we were taken out of the cells to  be taken to the CID offices.  We didn't know where we were being taken but we went to the CID offices and there van Loggerenberg, also known as Oupa who also until today is still a detective in this town.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you then charged - were you taken to court or what happened?

MR KARIEM: We were charged with public violence.

ADV POTGIETER: What happened with that case?

MR KARIEM: Actually nothing happened, the case was withdrawn against us on - or during 1987.  We appeared on that Wednesday and we were threatened psychologically threatened - they took Coke bottles and while he was questioning us and taking down notes - while they were trying to find out what we were doing at the Sohnge march and putting emphasis on the Sohnge march - so eventually this charge was withdrawn.

ADV POTGIETER: [inaudible]

MR KARIEM: Yes it was.

ADV POTGIETER: So in that October you were again arrested - is that the case?

MR KARIEM: On that occasion I was taken into custody on the Friday as well as a teacher from Breede River as well as a teacher at one of the Primary Schools - these were all taken into custody.
May I mention their names?

ADV POTGIETER: It may be unnecessary, we only want to really know what your story is today.

MR KARIEM: Myself and the particular teacher were then in a cell together during that morning at four o'clock in the morning.  They knocked at the place where I was.  Then at the time of morning prayers, I was in  Durban Street at the time and when we arise for morning prayers the lights were on and the whole house was surrounded by the police and the Riot Squad members and then Niewoudt took me out of the house himself.

ADV POTGIETER: What did he say, what was the reason for your being taken in?

MR KARIEM: He said that we were being taken in for questioning, and we were  slightly stupid still at that time because he then told me when we got to the charge office that I was under custody in terms of Section 50.
Then we were put in he cell together, myself and this teacher and we received no food that morning, we hadn't had breakfast.  I was then taken out of the cell on my own and then he began - it's a thing that you use at the dances you have bouncers who use things that shock you and it's the same instrument  that this Niewoudt used.
He shocked me with this - gave me electric shocks.  And he asked me no questions he just gave me these shocks and then he said to me yes, I am going to get you, I told you I was going to get you. That was his words.
Then on the Saturday evening the State of Emergency was declared and all the detainees -  also those of whom we had only heard, we were all taken out of the cells and placed in a space where they always keep people before they take them into the court.  From about 12 o'clock we were all put together in this cell - this large cell.  No-one could sleep and we were left there until the next morning.  We only had some dry bread, we had no other food.
My parents tried to bring us some food but they were not allowed to give us this food.  On the Sunday, the next day we then were told that the State of Emergency was declared and we were then all put into one of the large police trucks.  We then didn't know where they were taking us and one of our friends, Soraya and Sheila were at the garage and we then said to them we were being taken somewhere - we did not know where we were being taken.
The driver of the end of Tape 2, side A ...  is but he was called Tekkies and he told us that we were being taken to Pollsmoor but we didn't know that we were being taken to Victor Verster.  We then stopped at the Paarl branch of the Security branch of the police which was the main branch in the Boland area at that time.  We were left in the truck when they got out and then they returned and took us to Victor Verster.  We were then put in single cells.
When we arrived at Victor Verster there was a friend of mine who was a staff person at the prison - a prison warden - and he was still a young person and I asked him if he wouldn't phone our families but he refused to do so.  He was someone who knew the people where I stayed, he knew the phone number was, but he would not help us.
In the reception area where they take your information down I was given a number, I was detainee 51/85.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you held at Victor Verster?

MR KARIEM: We were kept in single cells for about a week.  We were not asked whether we were Moslems or not and we were given pork to eat but fortunately I was not the only Moslem there - there were also other Muslims there, but when I saw the food we asked the warden what this food is, what kind of meat it would be and he told us it was pork chops and we told him we can't eat pork so then we had to spit the food out.

ADV POTGIETER: So how long were you kept at Victor Verster?

MR KARIEM: I was detained for roughly four months, that is from the beginning of the state of Emergency right through to  the 31st January 1986 - I was released at that time.

ADV POTGIETER: Did they question you, did they give you reasons why you were being held?

MR KARIEM: They gave us no reasons but they did question us.  When they questioned us there would be a number of special branch staff, three to seven -  sometimes the one would swear at you and the other would be sympathetic to you but particular Symington would swear at us.
And the other people would just sit around.  They were not able to injure us or harm us right there, because the prison wardens were right outside and the prison wardens would always ask whether we were harmed - physically harmed in any way.  Their whole approach was to break me down psychologically.

ADV POTGIETER: Someone gave you electric shocks - who was that?

MR KARIEM: That was Niewoudt.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you mistreated during the time of your detention?

MR KARIEM: I had some nice top teeth and I had them filled and the dentist at that time at the prison messed up my teeth so I had to have my teeth taken out.

ADV POTGIETER: You said that they mistreated you psychologically and that you were in detention for four  months.  Is that correct?

MR KARIEM: Yes it's correct.

ADV POTGIETER: What happened after you left detention, did you need treatment?