Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1976-07-19

MR VAN WYK: Yes.  On the 13th of October 1991, that night we went through to Louis Trichardt in a stolen vehicle which we had obtained earlier.  We went through in this vehicle and just outside Louis Trichardt we slept over that night and the next morning at four o'clock, it was still dark White dropped me off just in front of these premises and he then parked the stolen vehicle at the hotel.  And then we entered the premises and he and I then hid next to the road, the driveway.   I was quite well hidden in the bushes and he was a little bit ahead of me.  We were in radio contact and he also had a pair of binoculars with him.
	We waited until about six o'clock.  A BMW vehicle passed our way, left the premises and White then told us that everybody had left the premises.

MR GIMSBEEK: How did White inform you of this?

MR VAN WYK: Well White was sitting closest to the road and he could see what was happening and he also knew exactly how many people were on the premises, their movements and so on.  We were in radio contact with each other.
	Later at about seven o'clock we then proceeded to the house.  There was a bushy area in front of the house and we took up our position there.  Mrs Dubane, at that stage was outside busy sweeping the stoep, and we waited for her to leave the premises so that we could enter the house.
	At some point she came to the front of the house and she was standing right in front of us and virtually looking straight into White's face without actually noticing him because we were camouflaged, but I think she became suspicious at some point and that's when White told her in her own language, he greeted her, he said hello, and she turned around and he then shot her from behind.  He then proceeded to cut her throat.  
	At that stage I thought we should withdraw because the operation was not going according to plan and it was planned that we would withdraw under those circumstances.  But at that stage Mr Dubane came around the corner, saw Mrs Dubane lying on the ground and fled down the path.  White shot at him, he missed at him and told me to shoot.  I then followed Mr Dubane down the road and fired a shot at him.  White came around and passed me.  At that stage Mr Dubane was lying on the ground, he then slit Mr Dubane's throat.
	At that stage once again I thought we would withdraw because we were heading in the direction of where our clothes and equipment had been left.  But White said no, we should continue with the operation.  	We then entered the house, I can't remember which door we used to enter the premises but we did enter the premises.  We proceeded down the passage where we expected to find the particular arms we were looking for.  White said we should search the cupboards and we didn't immediately find the guns.  
	There was a separate change room to one side and it contained a lot of built-in cupboards.  I then started searching through these cupboards and he did likewise.  At some point I heard him slamming a cupboard door and he then fired a shot into one of the doors and I did exactly the same purely on instinct and it was only later that I realised that Mrs Roux had been inside the cupboard.   I didn't know that beforehand.

MR GIMSBEEK: But you did suspect that there was somebody inside the cupboard?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, but I didn't know it.  White then opened the cupboard, slit Mrs Roux's throat.  At that stage that action had a great impact on me. You know we espoused the cause of the Afrikaner people and now we had killed one of our own people. 	At that stage it wasn't a great sadness for me to see two Black people dying, but to see Mrs Roux dying was a terrible thing for me to have to witness.
	I think without detracting from what I said the way I feel now, the experience I have now gained I would like to say to Mr and Mrs Dubane's family and all their friends, I would like to say to them I am really sorry for what happened.  And I would like to say to Mrs Roux's family and friends I am truly sorry for the error which we committed there.  I am really, really sorry.  I have no words to express how I feel and nothing can undo, no words can undo what we actually did, but I am very sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: If we may take a short adjournment at this stage.  We will resume in 15 minutes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CORNELIUS JOHANNES VAN WYK: (s.u.o.)

MR GIMSBEEK: (cont)
	Mr van Wyk to return now to the scene in Louis Trichardt.  During the State's case against you in the Supreme Court evidence was tendered to the effect that there was an R4 gun in the room and that on that particular day the gun was no longer there, could you elaborate on this aspect please?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, that R4 would probably have been on the gun rack against the wall, but on that particular day it wasn't there and the R4 which we wanted to get for our further operations at Oudtshoorn that was being planned.

MR GIMSBEEK: Did you eventually find any arms, any ammunition there?

MR VAN WYK: No nothing.

MR GIMSBEEK: Did you take anything else?

MR VAN WYK: No, nothing.

MR GIMSBEEK: Could you not trace any weapons?

MR VAN WYK: White suspected that the weapons perhaps were inside the cupboard but we didn't take anything, and I didn't see any weapons there.

MR GIMSBEEK: Now you made a statement saying that it didn't bother you that much, the fact that the two Black people had been killed, it was only when you saw the White woman being killed that you were quite shocked, because she was one of your own. What was your view at the time, how did you view the victims at the time?

MR VAN WYK: Well we tried to justify it afterwards by thinking along the lines of casualties of war. We knew that people would die somewhere along the line as a result of our actions.  It was unavoidable and in the light of what we had planned and aimed for it was inevitable that people would die, so we dealt with it on the basis of these victims being casualties of war.

MR GIMSBEEK: And that they, according to you, had to die to achieve your aims?

MR VAN WYK: Yes, we would avoid it wherever possible, but I was prepared to die and all the members of the organisation were prepared to sacrifice their lives and we would do anything to achieve our objectives even if it meant innocent people being killed.  We were quite aware of that possibility.

JUDGE WILSON: Were you aware of that before you went there, that it might mean innocent people being killed?

MR VAN WYK: In an overall sort of way I expected that people would die at some stage, but before we went there on that particular day I didn't really think that innocent people would die.  We armed ourselves to combat any possible police action to ensure that we weren't captured alive.
	According to White's information and reconnaissance beforehand we did not expect to find any people at the house on that particular day, nobody except the servant, and we had planned to just tie her up if she should become suspicious.  So I didn't expect anybody at the house on that day.  I was quite shocked to see people there.  For instance Mr Dubane, it was totally unexpected that he was there, and the same in the case of Mrs Roux, so I did not expect that people would die on that day, not civilians at any rate.

MR GIMSBEEK: Right.  You then left there and you committed certain further offences.  Could we come to those now.