Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-08

JAN LOURENS: Well, the first exposure that I witnessed was an explosive device - evaluation of an explosive device, it was a sort of a stone grenade, and it was in - that particular evaluation wasn't done at Roodeplaat, it was done at one of the military test sights, I think it was Walmansthal, where the Roodeplaat scientists provided the animals, and at that stage it was rats, to a company which it's now called Medchem, it was Dr Vernon Joint at that stage.  So that was my first exposure.
 Subsequently at Roodeplaat I witnessed the exposure of baboons to the substance called CR, which is a teargas.

MR VALLY: We'll come back to that.  Whilst you were in the Special Operations grouping, you were still a member of the Permanent Force?

JAN LOURENS: Yes.

MR VALLY: Did you hold any rank?

JAN LOURENS: Yes, I was a Captain.

MR VALLY: Now, was this a formal military unit like other military units were, where people were in uniform, went around saluting each other?

JAN LOURENS: Absolutely not.  As a matter of interest, this is that I think the only time that I was in uniform during my attachment to Special Operations, was in cases when I was sent to the border.  For the rest we were always in civilian clothes, and there was in actual fact, practically no rank structure.  It was a very very informal structure and it was relaxed environment.

MR VALLY: Now before this laboratory at Roodeplaat was developed, you mentioned a Block C.

JAN LOURENS: Yes.

MR VALLY: This Block C, where was it located?

JAN LOURENS: Block C was located in Special Forces Headquarters, on the eastern side, on the ground floor of Special Forces Headquarters.  It was a small lab.

MR VALLY: What was it used for?

JAN LOURENS: It was used for the manufacture of this teargas called CR.  They manufactured CS as well, but that was a previous generation teargas.  The focus at that stage was on the development of this new generation product called CR.

MR VALLY: Can you tell us who else where members of the Special Operations?

JAN LOURENS: Of the medical unit the members at that time was Dr Basson, as officer commanding, Dr Swanepoel, although he joined a little later, he was basically the admin officer, Dr Philip Mijburgh, Dr Chris Blunden, Gerrie Odendal, a doctor as well, Deon Erasmus, Hennie Bester and Ben Steyn, and that was basically the group at that time, and of course myself.

MR VALLY: This unit, the Special Operations unit, who did it report to?

JAN LOURENS: Dr Basson reported to the then General in command of Special Forces, which was General Kat Liebenberg.

MR VALLY: Did the Surgeon General at the time, General Nieuwoudt, have any role here?

JAN LOURENS: Yes, the medical staff was allocated from SAMS, the medical services, to Special Forces.  The moment you started to move outside the grouping of special operations, in other words towards the projects, being the biological and chemical warfare projects, these projects resorted directly under the Surgeon General, so Dr Basson had dual reporting structure, on the one side to General Liebenberg, and the other side to the Surgeon General, General Nieuwoudt.

MR VALLY: Was this the situation throughout your involvement with Dr Basson, that he had a dual reporting structure, to the Surgeon General, as well as to General Liebenberg?

JAN LOURENS: Mr Vally, it's difficult to answer the question in the sense that I don't think any one of us fully knew who Dr Basson reported to.  Dr Basson had a wide range of roles and duties that he played within the South African Defence Force, amongst them Military Intelligence as well, so I think at least into two channels did Dr Basson report into.

MR VALLY: Did Dr Basson have any reporting structure that you are aware of, or any contact directly with politicians?

JAN LOURENS: Not that I'm aware of at all.  I was - Dr Basson is a private man, and the only relationship that I knew of in terms of him and any politician was with the State President, Mr P W Botha, because Wouter acted as his physician and he saw him from time to time, but I have no intimate knowledge in terms of the type of relationship.

MR VALLY: Thank you.  At some point Special Operations evolved into a different unit.  Can you tell us about that?

JAN LOURENS: During Dr - General Knobel having taken over from subsequent to the death of General Nieuwoudt ...(intervention)

MR VALLY: Sorry, do you remember when that was?

JAN LOURENS: No, I don't, it is late eighties.

MR VALLY: I think it's 1988, I think that General Knobel took over.  Please go on.

JAN LOURENS: Then the Special Operations unit was transferred from Special Forces back to South African Medical Services and it became what was known then and still is as Seventh Medical Battalion Group.

MR VALLY: Now, at which stage did you relocate from Special Operations, I'm talking about physical relocation?

JAN LOURENS: In 1985.  What happened in 1985 is, there was - there were two facilities being built.  One was the big biological research facility on the same farm at Roodeplaat, and the other was a chemical facility in Midrand, called Delta G Scientific, and at that stage there was a number of, not really problems, but there was a requirement for an engineering input at the Delta G sit, and I was transferred to Delta G to work as a site engineer on the construction phase of this plant.  During this time, though, I remained working at Roodeplaat, and I assisted a number of the scientists in manufacturing various types of equipment that they would use, and the equipment was all related to animal experimentation.

MR VALLY: What was the biological facility at Roodeplaat called?

JAN LOURENS: It was called RRL, being or standing for Roodeplaat Research Laboratories, and the Afrikaans version was RNL, Roodeplaat Navorsings Laboratoriums.

MR VALLY: Were these official wings of the Defence Force, or were they constituted differently?

JAN LOURENS: No, it was not at all - as a matter of fact, it was strongly denied that there was any links with the Defence Force.  It was front companies, and there was no evidence of anything military, other that the security systems in place.

MR VALLY: When you say "front companies", can you be a bit more explicit?

JAN LOURENS: Well it was a front company in the sense that it had a - it was registered as a PTY Limited.  There was a board of directors constituted, they operated in a manner as close as possible that you could - close to a private company with some sort of funding, and the image that was projected into industry was that it was in actual fact a private company.

MR VALLY: Let us first talk about RRL, Roodeplaat Research Laboratories.  Who were the Directors of RRL?

JAN LOURENS: When I introduced to the company initially, the Managing Director was Dr Danie Goosen and the only two Directors that I can recall at the time, was a Dr Schalk van Rensburg and a Dr Andre Immelman.  Dr Danie Goosen left the company round about '85/'86 and he was replaced by Dr Wynand Swanepoel, one of my ex-colleagues from Special Forces.

MR VALLY: And Delta G, who were the Directors of Delta G?

JAN LOURENS: Delta G initially the Directors were - the Managing Director was Mr Barry Pithy - no, untrue, the Managing Director at the time was Dr Willie Basson.  Barry Pithy was a Director, Dr Gerrie Rahl was a Director, and there was a Mr Andre Redelinghuys.  Dr Willie Basson left the company as well at roughly the same time was Dr Goosen left, and he was then replaced with Dr Philip Mijburgh.

MR VALLY: What role did Dr Wouter Basson play in the establishment of these two companies?