Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-15

CHAIRPERSON: Arthur are you still in the police force?

CAPT KEKANE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?  Where are you stationed?

CAPT KEKANE: I am at Ennersdale.

CAPT KEKANE: You heard when we were talking to Mrs Fourie and we want to hear your side of the story, what do you know about the death of these two people.  You can continue, sir.

CAPT KEKANE: I don't remember the date but what I can then say, let me put it this way.  The CID's came to my home after they arrested Fourie who was working under - he was the lieutenant and I was the warrant officer.  And they came to me with a policeman who they arrested, they said this policeman shot at a person at Matete.   I left with them, we went to the police station.  And when I arrived at the police station I called the now deceased Fourie and I told him that a policeman has been arrested and I said to him Fourie we took his firearm the first time and we told him that he mustn't be in possession of a gun any more and now here he is, he was now involved in a shooting incident and we don't know how he got hold of the gun.  And I said to Fourie do you have a police officer who is on standby to come and investigate this issue.  Then Fourie said to me I do not know, I will check on the list but don't worry, I will personally come and we will go to the place and
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investigate, that is the place where this incident took place.  This man, when they came to my house they were four.  It was a man and a woman and a policeman and this other policeman was arrested and I don't know what happened but  seemingly there was altercation and the policeman claimed this wife from her husband he released his gun and pulled the trigger and this man ran away.  The policeman then took the woman but I don't know how this running man knew that the approaching vehicle was a police van.  He stopped and they went back and they went searching all over for this man and this man's wife.  By then the husband to this wife didn't know that the abductor was a policeman and that is when I called Fourie.  I said Fourie this is a very complicated issue, please send someone who is on standby and he said no I am coming personally.  He asked me how did he get hold of the gun, I said to him Fourie I do not know.  He said I am preparing myself to leave now.  When I arrived in Seobuswa I will contact you and take those people so that we can meet at a T-junction at Motete, that is the one leading to Marble Hall and Pretoria. He said we should meet at that T-junction.  I don't know where he was at the time he contacted me but I think he was at Seobuswa because that was our agreement.  He contacted me and I called the people that were in the office.  The car was parked behind, I said to them let's go and we got into the car and we drove off.  We were heading for the T-junction where we were supposed to meet with Fourie.  When I arrived there his car was parked the other side of the road and I was this other side of the road and our cars were facing each other and I dimmed my lights for him so that he can realise it was me and no reaction from his side and I drove up to his car and I
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couldn't see anybody and I took my car, I drove past so that I can take a turn so that we can park our cars next to each other and I realised there wasn't anybody in the car and I jumped out of the car, I peeped through and I saw this person in the car and I called my senior to come and resolve this issue.  I heard Mrs Fourie referring to Frans.  I think there is a mistake that she didn't understand.  Frans was fighting for promotion.  I am talking about Frans Masiza and they altercated with Fourie and it came to my knowledge that this Frans wanted promotion, he was a constable and he said he didn't want be a sergeant, he wanted to be a warrant officer and if Fourie doesn't promote him he will go to Majozi and he will get that promotion, he will get the rank.  That is what he said.  Many senior police came to the scene then after I reported this.

CHAIRPERSON: The people who were in your company to meet Fourie, where were they?

CAPT KEKANE: They were in the car, it was a man and a woman, they were in the car.  We were three in other words in this car.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words you waited there until ....

CAPT KEKANE: Yes, I waited until the other policemen came.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you do then after they arrived?

CAPT KEKANE: I don't remember who arrived first and what happened thereafter because I was shocked.  I didn't know what to do but I managed to call them. They came flocking to the scene.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this the statement - what you have just said now, is it a statement that you gave to the seniors who came to the scene?

CAPT KEKANE: Yes, that is the same statement.
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CHAIRPERSON: Did you end up just there?

CAPT KEKANE: Yes, I don't know what happened thereafter because the other investigators took over because these two people had to go and point out where the policemen shot at them.  Now the purpose for Fourie to come was to go and investigate this matter, to go and inspect the place where the shooting took place.

CHAIRPERSON: Besides Frans Masiza isn't there anybody who was arrested on suspicion?

CAPT KEKANE: No, not according to my knowledge.

CHAIRPERSON: Not even to call him in the office to question him?

CAPT KEKANE: I don't remember such activity taking place.  We talked with Mashigo who is the person who shot a man wanting to take his wife from him and we asked him why did he shoot.  He used a gun previously and he was disarmed and he was told not to carry a gun any more.

CHAIRPERSON: Didn't it show that they might have taken a direction where you met the two deceased?

CAPT KEKANE: I don't want to confirm that.  I don't think there is any connection between the two.  Mashigo was in conflict with the two people.  He shot at this man at Matete far away from this place.  He was shooting that man for ...
his wife.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kekane were not in conflict at any stage with Fourie?

CAPT KEKANE: No.  This is Fourie's wife and she knows I used to visit Fourie and I used to go to her home to fetch Fourie's lunch and he used to send me to get him lunch.  And I was working with him in Denalton.  He was the station commander and I was the second in charge and he left this
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area to work where he was working and he called me to follow him and I left this area.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it possible at that time to know the conflict that was going on between the Mbcoto and the comrades?  Do you think he knew about this and they started to follow him?

CAPT KEKANE: Fourie used to attend meetings.  He was in charge and he was well known.  He used to go to their meetings and he used to go to the special meetings, he was the special person in charge, especially at Mahlanga.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say he attended their meetings do you mean he was attending their meetings as a member or as a policeman?

CAPT KEKANE: No, he was attending meetings in his capacity was a policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you perhaps know what the attitude of the people was against the police?

CAPT KEKANE: No. People at that time didn't really like the police.

MR LEWIN: Captain Kekane if I could please ask a couple of questions, if you could clarify some things for us.  You mentioned finding the car and then looking into the car and you have just said that you saw Mr Fourie, Lieutenant Fourie.  Did you just see one person or were there two people in the car?

CAPT KEKANE: I saw two people in the car.

MR LEWIN: Did you recognise the other person?

CAPT KEKANE: No, I didn't recognise the second person.