Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR WILLS: You sat down with Mr Vany of the TRC and you spent weeks with him going through all of your dealings and telling him as much as you could remember about them. Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Sorry that was Mr Vany of the ITU, the Investigative Task Unit, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You also spent some time with Colonel Marion and Colonel Dutton and you told them about everything you knew about these incidents. Is that correct.

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You met with a special advocate who was attached to the Attorney General's investigative team of Pretoria and you told them all about your incidents in Ermelo and you assisted and are going to be used as a State witness in Ermelo. Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You in fact flew in a helicopter with Mr Vany and others and you went to a particular, you pointed out a particular bush camp north of Ulundi that was still operating. Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct, it was the Mpolozi Camp.

MR WILLS: And as a result of your intervention in that regard this camp was closed down. Is that right? It is because it was found out. It was a secret camp prior to this.

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And can you remember who was at that camp?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I remember the people who were found at the camp. We found Mr Philip Powell, Smubengu, another boy whose code name was Swatekisi. Two boys were arrested, Philip Powell was found with ammunition in his car but he was never charged and arrested. The weapons which we found there, weapons like G3's and shot guns were (...indistinct) All those weapons were then taken in by the ITU. The Umfolozi base was then closed down but nobody has been charged or arrested for it. And no one has come to take statements from me. I was with Captain Scotts. We spent some nights at Ituba. The two boys who had been arrested were released the following day. We left that place and that was the end of the case.

MR WILLS: Yes and is it not so that up until this point in time that Umfolozi Camp was another of these secretive camps is that righ? Nobody knew about it?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: By that I mean the authorities did not know about it?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes they did not know.

MR WILLS: It was only the IFP authorities that knew about this camp is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes they were the only ones who knew.

MR WILLS: Now is it also not so that you are prepared to assist any investigator from whatever quarter he comes in order to give information in order that the large amount of crimes can be solved, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And since your arrest there has not been one occasion where you have refused to assist the many requests that have been made on you to provide information?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now why have you been all of these, why have you been assisting so many investigative teams?

MR HLONGWANE: The reason for doing this is that I do not want other people to find themselves in the same situation as we did. The government in collaboration with Inkata used us to kill these people. Therefore I am prepared to fight such violent crimes until the day that I die. I will do this in every possible way that I can. That is my objective.

MR WILLS: Yes, now is it not true as well that you are a member of the IFP Prisoners' Committee, this committee which Mr Mbambo chairs in the prison and that you are working in this committee to foster reconciliation between the prisoners at the prison in Westville?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson and members of the Committee. That concludes my evidence in chief.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wills. Mr Stewart do you have any questions to ask this witness?

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Hlongwane I want to take you back and remind you of the incident you told us about involving the pipe bombs, do you recall that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I do.

MR STEWART: And in your oral testimony before us earlier today you mentioned two people being with you. You mentioned Lucky Mbanjuwa and some one you described as your girlfriend, Tabele Txulu. Do you remember that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I do.

MR STEWART: Now you have said in your affidavit that Zweli Dlamini was also with you on that occasion. Mr Dlamini will come and say he knows about this case but he was not involved. What do you say to that?

MR HLONGWANE: I will say that maybe the mistake was mine.

MR STEWART: So you agree that Zweli was not there?

MR HLONGWANE: I was with Tabele Txulu and Lucky Mbanjuwa. Zweli's name was mentioned by mistake.

MR STEWART: Mr Hlongwane I want to take you back now to your days in Mpumalanga when you were part of the IFP Youth League. Do you remember telling us about that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I remember.

MR STEWART: And you mention at one place in your affidavit that you were introduced to Mdlanduna or Mr Luthuli at a meeting. Do you remember that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: And I am referring now for the assistance of the members of the Committee to paragraph 19 on page 139. And you say there Mr Hlongwane you one day had a meeting at a school. You remember a well built man stood up and introduced himself as Mdlanduna and you say there you had not seen him before. And that Mdlanduna complained that you being the youth had not been disciplined. Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR STEWART: And he warned you about carelessness and if you continued in that fashion the UDF would finish you off. Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR STEWART: And is it right that Mdlanduna was concerned about the reckless and careless way in which the youth there were conducting their fight against the UDF, ANC?

MR HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR STEWART: And he encouraged you to become more organised and disciplined and to conduct your attacks with a political objective. Is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: No further questions Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Stewart. Mr Ngubane do you have any questions?

MR NGUBANE: Yes Mr Chairman thank you very much. Mr Hlongwane I know that these incidents were numerous and that they ocurred some time ago but I have instructions to ask you about certain incidents and if you can remember then please tell us. Do you recall the 2nd of August when there was a mass action by the ANC at eSikaweni to remove the KwaZulu flag at the police station?

COMMITTEE MEMBER: Mr Ngubane can you assist me, 2nd August of which year?

MR NGUBANE: 2nd of August 1992, yes thank you.

MR HLONGWANE: I do not remember.

MR NGUBANE: Do you recall or did you participate at any stage in the attack of a house wherein a certain Mrs Mbanjuwa who resided at D950 when that house was attacked do you recall that incident?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes I remember.

MR NGUBANE: Who gave you the orders to attack there?

MR HLONGWANE: Mrs Mbuyazi.

MR NGUBANE: And is it correct that Mrs Mbanjuwa's neighbours' house was also bombed on that particular day?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is true.

MR NGUBANE: Who were with you when these attacks were conducted?

MR HLONGWANE: It was myself and Izinkabi.

MR NGUBANE: Now is it correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Just for the record is Izinkabi that is the people who came from Johannesburg?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR NGUBANE: And is it correct that the english name for the word Izinkabi is oxen which are used?

MR HLONGWANE: That is true.

MR NGUBANE: Which are used to plough the fields?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes that is true.

MR NGUBANE: Was there any member of your hit squad members of eSikaweni present when that attack was undertaken?

MR HLONGWANE: I do not know whether Lucky Mbanjo was there or not.

MR NGUBANE: Now these izinkabi were they brought by Mr Xhosa to eSikaweni?