Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-02

CHAIRPERSON: ... because two or three of our witnesses have not turned up we have a bit of time.  Unfortunately, the last witness Roelf Meyer, the Secretary-General of the National Party was scheduled to be here at four thirty.  We cannot do very much about that.  What I wanted to suggest and I am very sorry, I mean, we have to apologise, but the three witnesses did not pitch up.  I wanted to suggest, perhaps, that we take a break now and resume, you are suggesting at three thirty.

MR MALAN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: That we resume at three thirty with the last two witnesses.  We just want to welcome specially Dr Heino Valke from what use to be East Germany and his wife and their friend Mrs Reine.  As you know Lebonarie they experienced freedom after East Germany when East Germany lost communist Government about the same time as when we were becoming free as well, but we welcome you very much and ask that you continue to pray for us as we move from Egypt through the wilderness into the promised land.  I have one other notice there.
 Maybe people are afraid thinking that if they come here they will be in trouble.  Let us remind them that we have the South African Police services who give us security and they will help them to protect them and, again, if there are MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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problems about that, we have witness protection programmes that if people want to come here and maybe there are people who are threatening, they should tell us, then we will give them that protection.  If you know that you want to do something within the Truth Commission, do not be afraid.  Alright.  Russell.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you Father.  We now call our next witness, Chief Piet Mathebe.

INTERPRETER: The speakers mike is not on.

RUSSELL ALLY: It is on.  Coming through?

INTERPRETER: No Sir, very softly.

RUSSELL ALLY: I do not know.  It is technology.  It does not agree with me.

INTERPRETER: That is okay.

RUSSELL ALLY: Chief Mathebe is going to present a statement looking at Moutse, the historical background, the political situation which led to the violence.  He is also going to speak about the consequences of Moutse's incorporation and issues of reconciliation.  So, if Chief Mathebe can please come forward and Commissioner Malan is going to assist him with the statement and with the oath.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I said the organisers were the people who gave us this platform.  In fact the person who did that is one of our briefers, Fikila.  So I must give praise to the right quarters.  Fikila is jealous that you clapped hand for the wrong people.  Can you clap hands for her.

MR MALAN: Will you please stand.

UNKNOWN: (Duly sworn in, states).

MR MALAN: The gentleman with you, would you like to introduce him to us.

UNKNOWN: Yes.  That is Mr Giyane.  He is one of the
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Committee leaders in our area.  May I start?

MR MALAN: Chief Mathebe you did give us a statement which we have read, but we will prefer you taking us through your statement and at the end, I am sure we will have quite a number of questions which you could help us with.  You are welcome to start.  Thank you.

UNKNOWN: I thank you, Sir.  As Mr Russell has said I am going to give just a background about Moutse in details.  How did it come that Moutse existed and the incorporation into KwaNdebele and the deletion of that policy and so forth.  Again, I am going to talk about the overview of the realities which happened at that time.
 First, let me start by the geographical location of this place.  Moutse is a stretch of land situated between Groblersdal and Bronkhorstspruit in the Mpumulanga province.  The problems of Moutse are directly linked to the implementation of this policy of separate development by the Nationalist Party Government.  The task of that Government policy was to separate people according to their ethnic affiliation and located them in pockets of land where they would be granted a measure of self-rule under the tutelage of the Central Government.  These pockets of land were later to be called homelands.  
 Apartheid began to manifest itself in Moutse with the creation of what was called Regional Authority.  That was a grouping of Chiefs in a particular area under one authority.  This was called Regional Authority.  These groups were later to be grouped into what has to be called Territorial Authority.  The predecessor to the homelands.  With that institution of the tribal differences through the various imaginations of apartheid policies of Government, the 
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KwaNdebele group was accorded their own Regional Authority.

CHAIRPERSON: Do not listen to it.

UNKNOWN: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: You are listening to your translation.  Just speak.