Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-12

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct but the opportunity was given to us by Trevits because without Trevits we did not have the opportunity earlier here in Port Natal because we were not authorised to work in Swaziland.

MR MALAN: So your first participation in Trevits was in 1986?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes and that is my experience that Trevits already existed.

MR MALAN: Well if it already existed, how did your participation come about there and how did it come about that the desk officers which you refer to constituted Trevits in it's meetings, what was it constituted of before that?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Chairperson, you might have missed that point.  I said that Trevits existed as a structure at police headquarters.

MR MALAN: I'm with you now, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry, I'm not with you completely.  Was Trevits a unit which had it's own ranks and then there was this committee that you sat on with Mr Taylor on occasions and there were representatives from all the provinces on that committee, were they?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Chairperson, Trevits only existed as a committee, it was not a structure on it's own.

CHAIRPERSON: Well who went to Swaziland to gather the information?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: The members of the security branches of the Eastern Transvaal and members of the security branch of division Natal.

CHAIRPERSON: Ordinary members were sent on certain missions?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Did they remain members of the Port Natal branch or the Northern Natal branch and they merely acted on behalf of Trevits, but Trevits didn't have permanent staff?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Just to get clarity for myself, you say that the normal members could go into Swaziland now?  Those decisions to gather intelligence, was that done at the regional level independently or was that to gather that specific information was that decided in the co-ordinating committee between Eastern Transvaal and Natal, was the planning done there?  In other words your intelligence, did you have to liaise with Eastern Transvaal or was the planning done there?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Both were relevant there.

MR MALAN: But you would have free access to gather your own intelligence and it could happen that you in Eastern Transvaal would be looking for the same intelligence?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR MALAN: And gather intelligence independently without knowing of each other?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, I must just place on record here that we did not anticipate that we were going to deal with Trevits as a subject and the witness is now giving evidence from his recollections and I must place on record that he may well be wrong with certain of his facts.  If it's of importance to this Committee we will attempt to have the documentation couriered here and this witness can continue on Monday, Mr Chairman and deal with it more fully.  But at this stage I would prefer not to go any further with Trevits other than just stating the principles, with your leave.

MR MALAN: Mr Visser, I speak for myself, this is not central but the issue of Trevits you touched on and you spoke of the perceptions that existed and it is important for me that we get more information.  We have the source basis and we can pursue it further but I don't think it is primarily relevant to the amnesty application, I agree with you.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairperson and then I would like to return to the main road Mr Botha.  Yesterday you gave your experiences to the Committee of the political situation, you have explained that to the Committee and you also mentioned that here in Durban you were in a war situation where bombs exploded and where you had to work hard and long hours in order to combat the violence.  I would just like you to address the committee as to how you saw this war situation and how you saw your own position, you in particular, in this cadre of regulations and rules in which you had to act as opposed to what you were fighting.  Can you just sketch how you saw yourself in that situation and what your experiences were?

MR MALAN: Mr Chairperson, the revolutionary struggle as it happened here, here in Natal and specifically the focal point of Durban, was much more serious than a conventional war.  The enemy had no rules with regard to targets and with their acts of terror or their methods of terror and consequently I at grassroots level made decisions or took decisions which I thought were the correct ones because of the situation and of these decisions, as shown in my application for amnesty, that is why I am here, but I believed that those decisions were justified under the circumstances of what happened here and at all costs I had to stop the wave of terror.

MR VISSER: Mr Botha, can we now move to Exhibit A, that is a typed version of a written document is that correct?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: What is this and where does it come from, this Exhibit A?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Mr Chairperson, Exhibit A is an abstract from a register that was kept by Colonel Andy Taylor.

MR VISSER: Was this an official register or was it his own notes?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: It was a non-official register, Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman the - well a copy of the original is available for inspection by anybody who is interested.  The only relevant point pertaining to the handwritten manuscript Mr Chairman is the fact that quite clearly different people wrote with different handwritings into this manuscript, this record.  I don't believe, with respect, that anything turns on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you perhaps tell me, does it appear that the different writing is different incidents or perhaps different pages or - what I'm getting at is would someone come and report to him and write down the incident they were reporting or did somebody fill out the pages for him?

MR VISSER: I follow your question exactly, Mr Chairman, the answer is I haven't that study myself, perhaps that should have occurred to me.  We will look at that and perhaps if you want to look at it yourself, the document is available.

MR MALAN: Can I just ask another question?  Mr Botha have you made any entries into that register?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes I have Chairperson.

MR MALAN: And your entries, you did not act as a secretary, you made reports in there?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Thank you.