Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

MR CHETTY: To be honest I cannot say exactly what is location is at the moment, but I think that it may be possible to locate either families, if they are still alive, because there has been a lot of fighting in that particular area, and it is practically impossible for us to keep actual accounts of each family members that might have had - you know, been victimised as early as 1990 or 1989 because of the constant movement of people and the continuous fighting.

QUESTIONER: I think maybe it will be good if you do - what-do-you-call - make a follow up.  I mean an induna is a high profile person in the community.  It's easy to get where that family is of that induna.

MS IRISH: I mean we would be happy to co-operate with the investigation team in following up whatever witnesses are needed as a result of the report.

COMMISSIONER: Just one last thing.  I know it's quite difficult, but has any research that you might be aware of been done to try and quantify the extent of the displacement of people, how many people involved roughly?

MS IRISH: The Regional Peace Accord in 1994 attempted to conduct some research throughout the whole province.  I think the figure that they came up with at that time was 500 000 people throughout the province being displace.  They came up with the same problems that we did, that where communities as a whole were displaced and kept together in some way they were much easier to address than where there were individual people, mainly youth, that fled.  But I think the other group that would be possibly useful to contact in this is the Trauma Centre for the Victims of Violence in Durban, where they have been doing some research into this area and trying to work with some of the youth who have been displaced.

COMMISSIONER: Thanks.  Thank you both very much for that very valuable input, and if you could please make copies of the document available to our researchers, who are at the back of the hall.

MS IRISH: Thanks.

COMMISSIONER: Thanks very much.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Nzimande, can you hear me as I speak to you through the earphones?  Can you hear me and understand me?

THEMBANI CATHERINE NZIMANDE: Yes, I hear you.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much for coming to talk to us today.  I know it must be very, very difficult for you to relive the memories of what happened to you in 1992.  You are from the Murchison area.  We've recently, in the last few minutes, have heard about the terrible violence in the Murchison area, and you were affected there in 1992 by an attack on your house, and that is what you have come to tell us about today.  Before you tell us that story could you please stand and take the oath.

THEMBANI CATHERINE NZIMANDE: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

KHOZA MGOJO: Good morning, Thembani.  Please just sit down.  We are so happy that as soon as you heard the announcement that the time to verify has come you stand fast and came forward before the Truth Commission.  We'll just go along with you because there's still a lot that we would like to hear from you.  Firstly, I would like you to tell more about yourself - where were you born, how big is your family, and so on - before you start telling us more about your evidence?

WITNESS:   I have a very big family.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, you may continue and tell us more.

WITNESS:   I have a very big family.  I am from the Nzimande family.  I am a cousin to Ndelani family.  This means that I was born at Mbojwa at the Ndelani tribe.  My mother got sick.  She was working at Murchison Hospital, and that was 1986.

KHOZA MGOJO: That was the year in which she died, and we were still  staying at Mbojwa.  After her death it became clear that my elder brother suggested that we have to leave the place because my mother died.  We went, left the place, and went to Murchison.  That was 1980.  We stayed at Murchison, and that it was wonderful.  During 1976 this other brother of mine with whom we left Mbojwa said that we have to change the place to Murchison, and it happened that he passed away.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time you were at Murchison at which place were you staying in Murchison?

WITNESS:   We were staying at Mbhayimbhayi.

KHOZA MGOJO: How many were you?  Do you have a child?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have a child.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you have a child?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have one child.  It's one child.

KHOZA MGOJO: Will you please raise up your voice so that the people can hear you.  Please speak directly to the mike.

WITNESS:   I only have one child.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time when all this happened, July 1992, did you belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:   All I can say is that at that time - at the place where we were staying at Mbhayimbhayi we were under the ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO: The ANC?

WITNESS:   Yes, the ANC.

KHOZA MGOJO: Can you explain further exactly what happened on the 28th of July 1992?

WITNESS:   On the 28th of July 1996 ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it not 1996?  I would like to remind you?

WITNESS:  Yes.  Yes, I am sorry, I mean 1992.  It was on Wednesday, somewhere in the evening about 7 o'clock, and it was winter.  I was sitting just staying at home, and then an old lady came to my place.  She was my neighbour. Do you remember the name of this neighbour?   ---   I don't know well, but I just know her surname is Mampoja.

KHOZA MGOJO: So it means that the name that you used to call her is Mampoja?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was Mampoja.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was the surname?

WITNESS:   The surname was Numako.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, you may continue.

WITNESS:   As I said it was cold.  I was just sitting on the fire at home.  This neighbour came to my house.  She said, "My child, things are bad outside.  You don't have to sleep before - make a prayer before you sleep.  I would like to ask you to come to my place so that we can make a prayer before we sleep."  I said to her, "Mother, I am sorry that I am still busy at the moment, I am still washing," but she said, "No, just finish wishing, you can come and join us at home."  I did that.  I washed and I finished.  I took my young child and I went to her place.

KHOZA MGOJO: How old was your child?

WITNESS:   At that time he was five years old.

KHOZA MGOJO: Yes, you arrived at your neighbour.

WITNESS:   As we were entering the neighbour's place they were already finished dishing out the food.  The food was on top of the table, and the younger daughter said, "Let's sit down and eat because we have just prepared the food."  I told them, "I have already eaten at home.  The only thing I can take is just tea."

KHOZA MGOJO: Who is this Mazini?

WITNESS:   This Mazini was the daughter to Mampoja, and she said, "Since you don't want to eat then I will put the tea aside for you, the others will continue eating."  Yes, they started eating, and she put some - boiled some water for tea for me.  While they were still eating we heard some noises outside.

KHOZA MGOJO: These noises, has it happened before you prayed?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was the time before we started praying.

KHOZA MGOJO: Were you singing, or what?

WITNESS:   Not yet.  We hadn't started singing at that time.  When they finished eating my tea - this neighbour of mine started preparing my tea.  Before she can place my cup on top of the table before me - we were sitting in the dining-room with the grandmother - she started a song, a chorus, a church song.  We started singing in that house, we were singing these choruses.  While we were singing a young lady and her mother gets into the house.  They told us they are hearing gunshots outside the house.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where was this young daughter from?