Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I heard them saying that some of his body parts should be removed because a certain invanga wanted them.  I did not want to be involved in removing some of his body parts because we had done what Mr Nyawuza had ordered us to, that is to kill him.  They removed some of his parts.

MR ALBERTS: Were you present when that happened, when the body was mutilated?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I was not present when his body was mutilated.

MR ALBERTS: And where did you go to?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I went to Khuzwayo's house.

MR ALBERTS: Did you report this incident to anybody?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I did not tell anybody.

MR ALBERTS: Just to take you back to one aspect, did you know why the wife of Dludlani was killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, Mr Nyawuza's wife was not killed, she was shot and her hip was injured.

MR ALBERTS: Sorry but did you know why that was done, why it happened?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: His house was attacked because he was an IFP leader.

CHAIRPERSON: He won't know, he just thinks so it doesn't take the matter very much further.   We will take the short adjournment at this stage and resume in 15 minutes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR ALBERTS: Mr Chairman there are two incidents mentioned in a statement by the applicant that is attached to his application that happened before the cut-off date but it is not mentioned in his form 1, the application itself.  I don't know whether I will have permission to proceed in leading evidence in that regard.

CHAIRPERSON: Where are they?

MR ALBERTS: It is on page 24 and 25, middle paragraph on page 24 and the first paragraph on page 25.

MR MALAN: Mr Alberts, are you referring to the Mahaye incident and the son of Nthuli?

MR ALBERTS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: This is in the form of an affidavit.  This statement is in fact an affidavit isn't it?

MR ALBERTS: That is correct, its heading says affidavit but it was however not deposed as an affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Well it does appear to be, page 27.

MR BRINK: In fact Mr Chairman the typewritten document appears to be a transcript of the handwritten document which appears from page 8 to page 20 and it appears on page 20 that in fact the applicant affixed his thumb print and the Commissioner of Oaths certified it.

MR ALBERTS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And is it his desire to apply for amnesty in respect of these matters?

MR ALBERTS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR MALAN: Mr Alberts, may I also refer you to page 26 at the top there, the reference to two school boys, are you not including that as well?

MR ALBERTS: I apologise, yes that should also be included.

MR MALAN: You may proceed.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Brink may not this be, may produce some difficulties in the sense that parties who may have an interest in this matter are not here?

MR BRINK: That is absolutely correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And there is no way of finding out whether they may not have a view that might affect the facts that are set out?

MR BRINK: Indeed.

CHAIRPERSON: In these paragraphs.

MR BRINK: Indeed. I think with great respect Mr Chairman, it would be inadvisable to proceed with this aspect of the application at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Unless we hear his evidence and then you take it upon yourself to obtain affidavits from the affected parties only to the extent that they may have a view of the fact that are different and then you obtain those affidavits to place their version of the facts.

MR BRINK: Yes, that could be done.

CHAIRPERSON: And we may postpone taking a decision on the matter and you and Mr Alberts can go through those facts to find out whether there is any difficulty between the two of you, otherwise it might mean postponing this application and then sitting again on another day when the three of us may not be sitting together for a long time.

MR BRINK: Yes, I see the problem.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you say to that?  Yes I think that it is only proper that we will not make a decision on this matter until the dependants and the relatives have had an opportunity to express their views concerning them, concerning the matters that affect them.  In the meanwhile we will allow and we will accept his application in respect of these matters so you may start, you may proceed with them.

MR ALBERTS: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	You also made mention in your affidavit of an attack of the Msomi kraal.  Was there a meeting held to decide on this aspect?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were still talking about Ngoso.

MR ALBERTS: Mr Chairman. I don't know if anybody else has something further about Ngoso or the previous incident that we dealt with?

CHAIRPERSON: Well for the time being we haven't but we may ask him questions if the need arises.

MR ALBERTS: Thank you.
	Okay we moving onto the attack on the kraal of Msomi now, was a meeting held?

CHAIRPERSON: No, start off with, instead of whether a meeting was held, start off with what was done, what did these people do before you talk to him about what the meeting was about isn't it?

MR ALBERTS: Yes, Mr Chairman.
	Do you know why the kraal of Msomi was attacked?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: What was the reason?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The reason why Msomi's kraal was attacked is because another boy, namely Mbeshe Mahaye was killed.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know by whom he was killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I do not know why Mbeshe was killed, I only received a message that he was killed.

MR ALBERTS: Did you suspect anybody?

CHAIRPERSON: Well they just received a message that he had been killed.
 Did you know this man Mahaye?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I knew him.

CHAIRPERSON: When was he killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was in 1993/94, as far as I can remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Where was this man from, Mr Mahaye?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mahye was from Mkhukhuze, in Nyanini.  It is in Exhowe area.

CHAIRPERSON: You received a message that he had been killed, what happened after that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We came together, we IFP boys.  A KwaZulu policeman was also present.

CHAIRPERSON: Just give me the names of the people who gathered?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The KwaZulu policeman was Ngema, I have forgotten his first name.  Another person was Thokozani Ntuli.  He was not a KwaZulu police but an IFP member.  Mbeshe Mahaye's brothers, namely Mso and Kusakusa were also present.  Kusakusa is still a KwaZulu policeman.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: K U S A K U S A.

CHAIRPERSON: B-U-S-A?  Yes do carry on.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I do not know the other people because there was many.  Thulani Myeza, Thokozani Ntuli, Kusakusa Mahaye and myself.

CHAIRPERSON: There was yourself.

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Where did you gather?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We met in the scrap yard.

MR ALBERTS: What was decided at this meeting?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We decided that we must destroy these boys houses because they had killed another boy.

MR ALBERTS: Why was the kraal of Mr Msomi chosen?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The message we received ...[intervention]

MR ALBERTS: What was the message?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The message was that the people who killed Mbeshe were staying at Msomi's place.

MR ALBERTS: Yes but what does that have to do with Mr Msomi, why was he chosen?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The reason why Msomi's house should be attacked is because the boys who murdered Mbeshe stayed there.

MR ALBERTS: And how did you know the identity of the attackers or that they were there at Msomi's place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: That is the message we got, that these boys were at Msomi's kraal.

MR ALBERTS: And what was decided at this meeting?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We decided to go and destroy Msomi's house.

MR ALBERTS: Was that a decision taking by everybody together or was it one person that made the decision?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: This was a decision from all of us.