Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-18

DR BORAINE: We invite Mrs Thembisa Constance Mginywa to the stand please.

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: You have come from Grahamstown and you have come to the Commission to talk about what happened to your son who was murdered at a political funeral.  It's a tragic story.  We are grateful that you have felt it was of some help to you to come to the Commission.  We are trying to give as complete a picture as possible of what happened in this country and you will help us by the telling of your story.  Miss Tiny Maya will assist you and I am quite sure that she will make you feel comfortable and relaxed.

MS MAYA: Hello Mrs Mginywa.  Mrs Mginywa how do you feel this afternoon?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: I am very well, thank you very much.

MS MAYA: Are you Mrs Thembisa Constance Mginywa from Grahamstown?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Yes I am.

MS MAYA: This afternoon would you like us to know about your son Mgcini Matthews who was murdered in Grahamstown?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Yes it is so.

MS MAYA: Could you please inform us about Big-Boy and who was this Big-Boy?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Big-Boy was my son.  He is the third born in
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my family.  He was attending school at Nombelelo Secondary School.  On the 13th of April 1986 it was in the morning because I went to work at the time, leaving the children as usual.  When I arrived from work I was advised at five o'clock, when I arrived in the afternoon I asked where Big-Boy and his sister replied and said she doesn't know and she is afraid.  She said she doesn't know where he went to and this is quite a long time ago.  A day before Big-Boy said to his sisters please wake me up.  I think they woke him up because I went to work.

MS MAYA: According to your knowledge did you know that he was going anywhere?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: No I didn't know anything that he was having any journey to undertake but I knew that there was a funeral which was in the vicinity.  Usually when there was a funeral we were becoming very anxious because we knew that boys would go to the funeral and some of them would never come back.  We knew that if one of your sons went away you would be very grateful if he comes back intact.
 When I stayed there there is a neighbour called Mr Ghalo who is working at Settlers Hospital.  When she asked after my health we exchanged small talk then she asked me if I know that Big-Boy was in hospital.  I was shocked, and then she said to me I must not be shocked because really he is able to talk.  He was able to give particulars about himself, but he is in hospital.

MS MAYA: What was the cause of admission in the hospital.

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: He was shot.

MS MAYA: What was the extent of the injury?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: The thing that he mentioned is that he was injured, he was shot in the leg, just between or above the
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knee.

MS MAYA: Did you make any efforts to go and visit him?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Definitely I rushed to the hospital and my children and my brother took me along, they accompanied me to there.  When I arrived there Mrs Ghalo is the nurse who used to knock off at 7 o'clock, but we didn't stay long at home.  At 8 o'clock we were already at the hospital.  When we went to the hospital the nurses told me that Big-Boy is late.

MS MAYA: What was the reason for his death because it was said the extent of the injury was not serious?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: I met some of the nurses and they were getting on duty at 7 o'clock.  The nurses who told me that there was only an injury on the leg had already knocked off, but the others said they tried their best but they failed to resuscitate my son.

MS MAYA: Did you get any details of the efforts made to resuscitate your son?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: No I didn't understand what they meant by that because they said the injury was minor.

MS MAYA: Can I ask what is the reason for attending the funeral and whose funeral was this?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: What I know is that the funeral was belonging to the Dokwe family, the child there was the same age group as my son.

MS MAYA: Was the type of funeral which was being undertaken?  Did you get any details?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Yes this child was also shot by the police and he was fatally wounded.

MS MAYA: Did you get any information what caused the death of this child of yours?
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THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: The people who attended the funeral told us that during the procession we got a further report that as usually used to happen at the time we would always bury children because if each time there was a funeral one child would be shot and this became a habit and the reverends and the ministers of religion were always ready for funerals because they knew that the majority of the youth was being shot at each time there was a funeral.  Most of the time then the procession would be led by the ministers or the children or youth would be in the forefront and then the ministers would be at the back. I further got a report that he was part of the crowd that attended the political funeral.  And then during that procession people saw him just collapsing.  It is said that the ministers were also available.  We had a minister Seboto and the other one was there because they waited so that he can be taken.  The child was taken away.  The policemen were the people who took the child away to take him to hospital.

MS MAYA: When you say he fell down what do you mean by that?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: It's because he was shot.

MS MAYA: Who shot the child, did you see anything?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: Nobody saw who shot him.  But what I can say there were caspers and the police were there but nobody could identify who shot the child.

MS MAYA: Was there any conflict between the police and the community and the funeral attendants?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: No we didn't receive any information about any conflict because the procession it was orderly.

MS MAYA: During the time when you were preparing for the funeral what happened?
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THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: During the course of the week preceding the funeral arrangements the police came in their caspers.  They brought a letter and said I must sign a letter and they gave me the orders that there are restrictions in the way in which the funeral should be conducted.  It was said that the people should not be beyond 200.  We were given restrictions about who should talk there.  I was surprised because usually we don't say a certain number should attend the funeral.  Everybody gives support and the people came voluntarily to give condolences.  It was difficult for me then to come and inform the people that they should not come.  I didn't see any reason that why should they come and give orders after they have murdered my child.

MS MAYA: I get the information that there is an incident which took place during the night of the vigil, what happened during that night?

THEMBISA CONSTANCE MGINYWA: On the night preceding the funeral while people were attending the vigil there were so many people and there were also children and a youth group, the age group of my child.  At the time I heard a big sound, listening to the sound immediately it was dark and there was smoke all over the place.  At the same period there were so many children, those who were outside wanted to come inside.  I stopped for a while but some of the people were also rushing, there was a commotion then and those who were outside wanted to come in and those who were inside wanted to go out.  There was teargas smoke and we didn't know what was happening because at the time we were not well accustomed to teargas.

MS MAYA: Where was this teargas?