Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-14

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay.  Can you ...(intervention)

JUDGE DE JAGER: What did you do to the farm?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: What we did, we threw petrol bombs because we only had petrol bombs with us, so we used those petrol bombs.

CHAIRPERSON: What were you aiming when you threw these petrol bombs?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Our aim was to pressurise those people because we knew that the farmers were the backbone of the Government of that day, so they were supporting the Nationalist Government and they were not treating the Africans well, so we knew that the farmers were supporting that Government and there were farmers all over the country, so our aim was to pressurise those people in order for them to talk to their Government so that we can get what we wanted, that was our aim.

CHAIRPERSON: My question wasn't clear, I said - you said on this day you had petrol bombs, now I mean at this far what were you aiming?  Were you aiming at the house or what were you wanting to throw the petrol bombs at?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Our aim was to burn the house, the one that we burned, that was our main aim, to burn the house only, because we knew that there was nobody in the house, they would come back, the owners of the house would come back maybe during weekends but they were not sleeping there.

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed Mr Mbandazayo.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now what I wanted to know is that who gave you the order to go and attack this farm?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: It was Mr Letlapa.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who did the reconnaissance of the farm?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: It was myself.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you have already indicated that you told the Committee why you attacked it, now you know that Mr Myburg would take it that, I don't know whether you knew who the owner is before you attacked the farm.  Did you know the owner of the farm before you attacked it?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No, we did not know the owner of the farm, but we knew that it belonged to a white person, but we did not know him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Myburg and his wife are here, what do you say to them after what has happened to their farm, after you attacked it?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I know that they worked very hard to reach at the point where they were.  They tried by all means to have that house or to have their property, but what I can say is that out of all that happened, I would like to ask for forgiveness because we were doing that under the past situation, so I'd like them to forgive me, because I was not aiming at them personally because I did not even know them at the time but it was the situation of the time that led us to do what we did.  So I'm asking for forgiveness.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's the evidence Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Could we have a brief moment.  I see Mrs Myburg is indisposed, that she receives attention before we proceed.  We will adjourn for 5 minutes for Mrs Myburg to recover.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Coetzer, can we proceed?  Is your client able, that she could appreciate what is happening?

MR COETZER: Chairperson, Honourable Members of the Committee, she has indicated to me that she is now prepared to continue and that everything is in order.  As it pleases you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr Coetzer.  Mr Mbandazayo, you were still speaking.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, that's the evidence of the applicant.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr Coetzer, do you have any questions?

MR COETZER: Chairperson, Members of the Committee, only singular aspects.

MR COETZER: Mr Gqomfa, how did you know that there would be nobody at the house that evening?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: As I was able to go to that farm and to meet with the workers of the farm, I monitored the place.  I knew that those people were not staying in that farm, maybe they would be there during weekends, but they were not spending the nights there, that is the information I got.  We did not know where they were sleeping, but we knew they were not sleeping in that farm house.

MR COETZER: Therefore would you say that your intention was purely to incur damage?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes, but we did not want them to be on those farms because when they came here they didn't have any farms, since we all knew the principles of the PAC, we wanted to get our land back.  So we had to use force so that they can move from those farms because in those areas, it is where we were planning our attacks.  So the principle of the PAC, we were putting it into practice so that we can get back our land, but not that we were attacking specific people, or them specifically, but we were looking at the farm in totality.

MR COETZER: On the farm Fairview there was also an attack.  Were you involved in that as well?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I don't know.  Which attack are you referring to?

MR COETZER: It is also ...(intervention)

JUDGE DE JAGER: There was a bakkie or a motor vehicle burned at the farm Fairview.  How far is Fairview from Wilgerspruit?  I understand - if I heard correctly it's about 8 kilometres from the farm Wilgerspruit which you have testified about just now.  Were you involved in another farm attack on a farm about 8 kilometres from there?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No, I was only involved in the one that I gave evidence about.

MR COETZER: Mr Gqomfa, if I could refer you to page 61 of the bundle, is that the house that you burned down?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I don't know whether it is the one that is in this photo, I'm not sure.

MR COETZER: No further questions, thank you Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR COETZER

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Coetzer.  Ms Mtanga.

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson, I just have one question for Mr Gqomfa.

MS MTANGA: Mr Gqomfa, were you involved in one farm attack in the Lady Grey area?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

MS MTANGA: I have no further questions Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Mtanga.  Adv Sandi, any questions?

ADV SANDI: No thank you Chairman, no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: My brother, do you have any questions?  Any re-examination Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Gqomfa, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson that's the evidence of the applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Coetzer are you going to call for any evidence?

MR COETZER: Chairperson we would like to lead evidence regarding the extent of the damage.  However I will leave it to the discretion of the Committee, if the Committee feels that this would be relevant to the proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Coetzer we've got a full statement by Mr Myburg.  I don't know whether anybody would dispute it.  It's part of the papers and if it's not disputed, we'll accept the facts set out in that full statement of his, so we wouldn't need oral evidence if nobody is disputing it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbandazayo, you have had sight of the full statement made by Mr Myburg.  Do you dispute the statement?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No Chairperson, we don't dispute it.  Luckily for me I had sight of it as early as 1998 of the statement so we don't dispute the statement, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mtanga, do you dispute that statement?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, I do not.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  In that event Mr Coetzer, when we have the full statement and not disputed by anybody, we'll accept the statement and we would make our decision around the statement as well, having that statement in mind.

MR COETZER: In that case I will not be leading any witnesses at this stage.  I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: While I was speaking to you, it appeared as if Mrs Myburg wished to tell you something.  Would you take instruction please?