Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-07-03

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: If you refer to the cassette, the instruction would be that you would have to take a brand new tape and that there should be nothing else on that tape, other than that which you want to record on it.
	In other words you mustn't tape that interview and then other things, that must be the only thing on the tape and then afterwards you would hand over the tape and the procedure as I've mentioned would take place, it would be sealed and kept in safe custody.

ADV VISSER: Now, what was the circumstances surrounding the tape recording you made on that day?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: The purpose of the tape recording was to refresh my memory later when I had to write my report for Head Office.
	I could then perhaps listen to the tape again, refresh my memory and then have all the facts proper and correct on the report.

ADV VISSER: Or if the people were arrested, what then?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Well, if they were arrested, we would have interrogated each one of them, especially the Commanders to be able to extract tactical information as soon as possible.

ADV VISSER: And you would have taped that?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Yes.

ADV VISSER: And you would have played that back later and placed the information in your report for Head Office?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Correct.

ADV VISSER: You did listen to this tape later?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Yes, that is correct.  I think I listened to it twice or three times.

ADV VISSER: Was there a sensational element attached to this tape?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: No, there was no sensation attached to it at all.  Other members found the tape sensational and there were other members who also listened to the tape?  I can't remember who, I think quite a number of them listened to the tape.
	And I know some of them made copies of the tape, I don't know who they were, but there were people who came to me and said they wanted copies of the tape.  Why they did that, I don't know.  Most probably because they found it sensational.  I didn't find it sensational.

ADV VISSER: After the events of the 10th of July 1986, how long did you keep this cassette in tact, if I may put it that way?  Not sealed and in a safe, but how long did you keep it in safe custody yourself without re-taping something else over it?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I would have to speculate here as far as specific periods of time are concerned, but it would have been a couple of months.

ADV VISSER: I am sorry I didn't hear your last answer?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I can't give a specific time, because I would speculate, but a couple of months definitely.

ADV VISSER: I am trying to check something here - did you destroy the tape by taping over it before or after the inquest had been finalised?
	Can you perhaps remember?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: No, not at all.  I don't know how long these inquests took, I really wouldn't be able to say.

ADV VISSER: As far as the sound which was on the tape, apart from the so-called sensational element thereof,  I see Chairperson on page 13, that the inquest was finalised on the 26th of September 1986, and according to the signature Magistrate Swart, would you have kept this tape after September 1986 or for a shorter period of time?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I can't remember.

ADV VISSER: What exactly was on this tape which would have caused anybody to want to hang onto this tape, apart from what you mentioned, the sensational aspect of it?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Nothing.

ADV VISSER: It could be put to you that there was a shot audible on that tape when Tokkie Fuchs shot this wounded person.  Would that be true if such a suggestion was to be made to you?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: No, no, that would not be true.

ADV VISSER: You then drafted a report for Head Office?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Correct.

ADV VISSER: In that report facts were watered down as Mr Erwee said in respect of the inquest or what was the position?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: No, it was a full and complete report.  It was also my task to number the bodies at the Alldays police station and to check the identity books etc, found on the bodies and also go through and make lists of all the clothes and bags and everything which they had in their possession, except for the explosives.
	That was given to the explosives experts, but all the other clothing and apparel which they had with them, I made a list of.  And as far as I could connect it with a specific body, it was done.
	If I could say, each body was numbered and each body - there were five of these identity books and each ID book which was found at a particular body, was then linked with that body.  I don't remember whether some of the ID books were found in the pockets or found on the bodies and I can't remember all the equipment, but there was a complete list which I compiled and I sent it along with my report to Security Head Quarters.

ADV VISSER: Was there any reaction from the Security Head Quarters to your report which gave rise to any further requests to give attention to the matter?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: Nothing, no.

ADV VISSER: Was it necessary for you to use your tape recording for purposes of drafting your report?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I believe that I would have listened to the tape recording before writing the report.  I know I listened to it twice or three times, not more than that, just to make sure of what had been said on the tape and to make sure that nothing had slipped my memory.
	It is very likely that I listened to it before writing the report.

ADV VISSER: Now, the six insurgents were killed, the inquest was held at some stage.  Was there any reason why you would then thereafter keep the tape?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: No.

ADV VISSER: If that tape was here today and it could be played here, what would you say would appear from it?  Would anything appear from it which would be in conflict with what these applicants have told the Committee or do you think it would have been in line with what they have said?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I believe the tape would have been a very good version of what was said here.  In fact over the past couple of days I have taken trouble to find out whether there isn't perhaps a copy of this tape available, but I couldn't find one.
	If one could be played, I think it would corroborate what was said here, especially what was said by Mr Erwee.

ADV VISSER: During tea time you mentioned to us that there is also something else which you've now remembered and you want to make a further enquiry to see whether you can find a copy of the tape and you are still intending to do that?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: That is correct.

ADV VISSER: Did you keep a copy of this report which you sent to Head Office?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I didn't keep a copy in my own possession.  The procedure at the time was that reports were filed in files and I can't keep copies of all my files with me, so it was simply filed as was proper procedure, I don't know where it is now.

ADV VISSER: Is that report possibly still available somewhere?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I really don't know.  I really don't know where that file could be found.  And if it could be found, the report would be in it.

ADV DE JAGER: Didn't you receive instructions to destroy all the files at some stage?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: I heard that there were such instructions, I don't know whether I was still a member of the Security Branch, I personally didn't destroy any files.

ADV VISSER: Apart from the attestation of the affidavit of Mr Erwee, is it your view that you did anything wrong during events of the 10th of July 1986?

JOHANNES HENDRIK VAN DYK: In respect of the 10th of July Mr Visser, I didn't do anything wrong.

ADV VISSER: Would you motivate why you nevertheless decided to apply for amnesty?