Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-30

CHAIRPERSON: It is Friday 30th April 1999, the continuation of the amnesty applications of Jimmy Nokuwasana and others.  The parties are as previously indicated as well as the Panel.  Mr Kincaid, who is the next applicant?

MR KINCAID: Mr Chairperson, I intend calling Rhandile Bhayi, applicant AM 0122/96.

RHANDILE BHAYI: (sworn states)

MR KINCAID: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Bhayi, I'll refer to you as Rhandile, are you comfortable with that?

RHANDILE BHAYI: No I don't have a problem with that.

MR KINCAID: The incidents for which you seek amnesty relate to convictions on count 1 of the robbery of a 12 bore shotgun from Mr Hansel.  Count 2, malicious damage to Mr Hansel's
property in that you cut his telephone wires.  Count 3, the attempted murder of Mr Cobus.  Count 4, housebreaking with intent to rob Mr Cobus.  Count 5, malicious damage to Mr Cobus' property in that you cut his telephone wires.  Count 7, the attempted murder of Mr Pretorius.  Count 8, housebreaking in that you broke into the home of Mr Senti.  Count 9, malicious property to Mr Senti's property in which you broke his window and count 10, malicious damage of Mr Pretorius' property in that you cut his telephone wires.
	Rhandile, is it your contention that these convictions were improper and were not founded in fact or in law or do you accept that you were correctly convicted of these crimes?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I was not wrongly accused or wrongly convicted.

MR KINCAID: At the time of the commission of these crimes Rhandile, you were 16 years of age is that correct?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: You lived in the Kabusi Township, Stutterheim and you lived in amongst the conflict and the tensions of community life which has been described to this Committee by your co-applicant Jimmy Nokawusana.  Do you confirm Jimmy's portrayal of everyday community life in Stutterheim during that time period?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy testified to a shooting at the Matamela Church Hall in Stutterheim in December of 1989.  Were you present at that meeting Rhandile?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: And Jimmy's description of events there, are they accurate, is it an accurate portrayal of what happened?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: What kind of emotions did this violent dispersal of the meeting instil in you, what did it cause you to feel, to think?

RHANDILE BHAYI: This whole situation effected me.

MR KINCAID: In what way, Rhandile?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I did not like what the police did there and as I was looking at it I did not like it.

MR KINCAID: Usanda and Moago say that they were very angry at what at happened there, did you likewise experience emotion of anger?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I was also very angry.

MR KINCAID: The consequence of that shooting, there were two meetings held in the Kabusi Township on the soccer field.  Did you attend those meetings, either one or both of them?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I attended one of them.

MR KINCAID: Which one was that?

RHANDILE BHAYI: The one that was on the playground, the one that was at the playground.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy's evidence was that at the meeting held on the soccer field a decision was taken to target the farmers to take arms from them, violently if necessary and to intimidate them off their lands.  Were you aware of that decision, Rhandile?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Did you in consequence of that decision then form part of the group which attacked Mr Hansel on his farm?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: And can you tell the Committee, Rhandile, what your role was, what you did during that attack?  There have been other applicants who have testified to the broader detail of the attack but can you specify your personal involvement?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I would like to first understand whether you are referring to the decision when the decision was taken at the hall or you are talking about the incident where we were getting to Mr Hansel's property.  Which one are you referring to?

MR KINCAID: I've moved from the church hall shooting to the subsequent meeting and what I wish to know from you now is that you testify ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kincaid just a minute?
	Can I ask you not to read your paper here, please?
	Carry on.

MR KINCAID: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	I asked you whether you were aware of the decision to target the farmers and you said you were and then I asked you whether you formed part of the group which attacked Mr Hansel on his farm.  Can you confirm that?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes I was present.

MR KINCAID: Rhandile, can you tell the Committee what your role was, what you personally did during that attack?

RHANDILE BHAYI: We went to Mr Hansel's house.  When we arrived there we surrounded the house.  After doing that the other members of our group got inside.  Within a moment one of them came, she called us through the window telling us to come inside the house.  I got inside with the others.  When I got into the room where it was used as the owner as his bedroom, I found him covered in blood and there were people who were surrounding him.  What I heard there being said by the people they were looking for weapons from him, they wanted weapons from him.  The role that I played there, I was armed with a hammer.  I hit him with the hammer because I wanted him to give us the firearms.  I hit him three times on his back with the hammer.  I kicked him while sitting on his bed.  In that process we searched the house looking for weapons because he was refusing to tell us where the weapons were and he did not want to give us the weapons.  We kept on searching the house.  I reached a dressing table if I'm not mistaken.  I opened there, as I was looking for a firearm but unfortunately I did not get anything there.  We went on with the search in the house and we even went to the other rooms looking for the weapons.

MR KINCAID: The annexure to the charge sheet alleged that there were items removed from the house such as a radio, an alarm clock, a wrist watch, trousers, shoes, bedding, keys, torches, items which by no manner or means related to weaponry or arms or ammunition.  Those items were taken from Mr Hansel, the evidence was at trial, do you know anything about the removal of this property?  Did you involve yourself with taking any of the property, did you see any other of the group take such property?

RHANDILE BHAYI: I did not see anything of that nature, anyone in possession of such items.  I also did not take anything like that.

MR KINCAID: When you attacked Mr Hansel, did you do so motivated by ill will or spite or any personal malice that you bore him?

RHANDILE BHAYI: No, that is not correct.

MR KINCAID: Rhandile, the next incident was the attack on Mr Cobus' farm.  Were you part of the group that had attacked Mr Cobus' farm and him?

RHANDILE BHAYI: Yes that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Can you tell the Committee just how you involved yourself in the attack on Mr Cobus, what you did?