Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-11-15

MR VISSER: Well, who else would have sent you this telegram?  Your second son went to join the ANC not so, in exile.  Isn't it reasonable to assume that it's on behalf of the ANC that this telegram was sent to you?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I think the person who could send me the telegram was his brother, because they were two.

MR VISSER: Hang on I don't understand this, whose brother are you talking about?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I'm referring to Godfrey Tax.

MR VISSER: Tax's brother?

MR LAX: No, what she's trying to say is that she assumed that the other brother, in other words Tax, had somehow made sure the telegram came to her.

MR VISSER: Is that correct?  Is that what you thought?  You thought it was Tax that had the telegram sent to you?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: It is not Tax, as it appears, but the only person I thought who could send me a telegram after his brother's death, could be Godfrey, that is Tax Sejanamane.

MR VISSER: Thank you, I understand.

MR LAX: Mr Visser, just for the record, I looked at the envelope and the original.  The date is a Roman 8, in other words (viii), and that's why, because it's not in ordinary numerals, but if you look at it carefully, that's what it is.

MR VISSER: Yes, I'm not concerned about the date any longer, it's more or less August 1989.

MR LAX: Yes, I'm just confirming that it is in fact August.  It is a Roman 8, that's why it wasn't that visible.

MR VISSER: Thank you Chairperson.  Were you concerned when you got this telegram?  You obviously were distressed, not so?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, I was.

MR VISSER: And this telegram invited you and your husband to obtain further details if you contacted the sender of the telegram at a P O Box number in Lusaka.  You understood that?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR VISSER: Did you write to that P O Box number, to this person, to request for details of the death of your son?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: No, we did not write.

MR VISSER: Was there any particular reason why you didn't follow that up?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I did not do that because my husband was sick with a stroke.

MR VISSER: You told the Committee, well I'm not even going to ask you that.  You said in paragraph 11 at page 39, that could possibly be shown to you, that you're opposing the granting of amnesty to the applicant, is that correct?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And you said the reason was because you are not convinced by their story about the disappearance of Tax, is that correct?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is correct.

MR VISSER: What story is that that you refer to?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I am not satisfied because they are applying for amnesty, but I don't know in regard with what, I don't know what they did.

MR VISSER: You said in March of this year, 2000, you said you were not convinced by the applicants' story.  To what story are you referring?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is when they say they are applying for amnesty, that's when they say they apply for amnesty.

GEORGE BIZOS: But that's not a story, that's an application.  What is the story you're talking about?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: That is their application for amnesty.  Can you really apply for amnesty if you haven't done anything?  You have to explain why you're asking for an amnesty.

MR VISSER: And how did you know that the applicants did not explain why they were applying for amnesty in March of this year?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I learned that they were applying for amnesty through the TRC.  Kaiser Mbatha had a form from Maseru.

MR VISSER: So you really don't know why you're opposing this application, is that what it boils down to?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I am against their applications because I want to know where my children are, as they were arresting my kids.  I just want to know where my kids are.

MR VISSER: And if they can't tell you because they don't know, what then?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: How will I forgive them, if they don't tell me where my sons are?

MR VISSER: Mrs Sejanamane please, if they don't know where they are, how can they tell you?  Are you assuming they must know, is that the point?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: How do they apply for an amnesty?

MR VISSER: I have no further questions.  Just a moment, Mr Chairman.  My attorney believes that I should just explain some of the questions Chairperson.  It's really argument and I can't ask the witness, but we will refer you in argument to the statement of the ANC to the TRC from which we will show you that the name of Philip who died allegedly of natural causes in Tanzania, is also not mentioned in the list and we will make certain submission to you in that regard.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Visser.  Mr Mapoma, any questions?

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any re-examination Mr Malindi?

MR MALINDI: None, Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MALINDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Malindi.   Any questions from the Panel Mr Lax?

MR LAX: Sorry Chair, I omitted to ask the others this question and it suddenly struck me as a relevant one.  Mrs Sejanamane, do you know whether Tax or his wife had any children?

MARIA DIJENG SEJANAMANE: I don't know.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, that's all I wanted to ask.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you.  I've got no questions Mr Chairperson.

MR LAX: Mr Malindi and Mr Koopedi, would you follow up with your clients with regard to the other people and the other families, just so we can have a clear picture of who the relatives and dependants are in case it becomes a relevant issue in due course?

MR MALINDI: We shall do so, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Lax.  I don't think there's anything that arises from what members of my Panel said.  Before - this brings us to the conclusion of the matter.  As I discussed with counsel in chambers, ...
	Forgive me Mrs Sejanamane, we have finished with your evidence.  You can be released and go back to your seat.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: As I discussed with counsel in chambers, I am worried when listening to the evidence in this matter, there are certain people who have been here and since they have not been called and because I am interested, I take it upon myself that these people should be subpoenaed.  I have identified some, as I look at the bundle of papers here.  They would be Bulelo, who allegedly came with the photograph of K K and I would say to you, Mr Mapoma, take advantage of the presence of Ms Ngono who testified before me to get full particularity regarding that person.

MR MAPOMA: It's Bulelo, Chairperson.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike.