Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-11

CHAIRPERSON: Could you please excuse me a bit, let me just establish, maybe we should have established this from the beginning.  How much time do you need?

KOBUS DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, I do not think I am going to be much longer than 15 minutes more.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

KOBUS DU PLESSIS: May I proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: Please, yes.

KOBUS DU PLESSIS: Thank you.  With regard to points L1, 2, 3, there is a lamppost which was struck by bullets at the stadium, it is being showed to you and, as far as L4 is concerned, that is where a bullet hole was found in a concrete wall at the entrance.  With regard to this area, I found 16 spent cartridges at the scene.  The cartridge cases were found at the positions I am identifying to you now, N1, N2, N4, N6 and, N7 is not here but I found them there too.  A total of 16 cartridge cases were fired from 11 firearms, of which I could positively link five.  I move further to the Fort Hare campus and just to be a bit brief I am not going to refer to the photos because we went through that.  I would like to say that position BL1 on the plan, on the area plan, is where we found a bloodstain on the South African side of the border.  It was photographed.  We refer to Annexure H, photograph number seven, it is identified by an orange arrow, the position of the bloodstain.  
 At position D01 we found a 5,56mm spent cartridge.  I could not link this cartridge case to any of the firearms which I tested and you will also see that this cartridge case is out of the area where the soldiers were deployed.  How it got there and how it relates in any way to this incident, I cannot say at this stage, I cannot determine.
 With regards to D1, position D1, there was the rest of a thunder flash which had exploded and at D2, at D2 there was what was left of a stun grenade.  I established that it probably related to an exercise which was conducted where these things were thrown and then there was position S2 where a stun grenade, not a stun grenade, but a 40mm grenade launcher was found as the others that were identified as having exploded.
 With regard to line M2 we have several points here.  KA6, KA8, KA9 and KA10 is where the fence was shot at, damaged by bullets.  At one point, KA9, there was a point where there was a big hole in the fence that had been shot open.  This toilet building, T1, was also struck by 15 bullets and was damaged, which was shot from the position which I am showing to you now.  I have also identified positions at the pavilion which, if you look from the pavilion, the brown wall on the upper side at the back, at the top of the pavilion there is a brown wall where, on photographs 29, 30 and 34 there are points that were damaged, that in my opinion, were struck by bullets which were fired from the direction of line two, M2 in the direction of the pavilion.
 The exhibits which were found at these positions in the region of the lined, were picked up and I am not going to elaborate too much of that but we can look at the totals.  A total of 177 cartridge cases were found in this area and with fire from 42 weapons and a total of 19 firearms were positively linked during the course of my investigation.
 With regards to line M3, at MD this was the position of the deceased soldier and at points KA1 to KA5 where concrete poles were struck by bullets, the numbers of photographs are available and you can see in these photographs I give an indication of what direction it was.  Then the toilet building, identified as T2 was struck by a bullet which also came from this direction, in my opinion.  There were also trees which I identify as B1 to B4 which are in this area, which were struck by bullets which came from the direction of line M3.
 For the sake of interest, the distance from MD to B1 is 160 metres.  The distance from line M2 to the position above the wall at the pavilion is approximately 325 metres.  The exhibits which were picked up of the cartridge cases in this area totalled 23.  They were fired from a total of 15 weapons from which I positively linked seven firearms.  
 There were also spent cartridges found in the position behind where the lines were, which I positively linked, and since at the time of the incident, the soldiers moved back, one cannot necessarily make the assumption that one of these persons was necessarily the one that shot the soldier, because they moved back at the time of the incident and these persons could also have fired while moving back and they did not necessarily stand there while the others were standing in front of them.  So I couldn't determine that and I do not want to create the impression that any of these, from a ballistic point of view and in my opinion, was responsible for the death of the soldier.
 The last section, Mr Chairman, is the section with regard to line M6.  I also have photographs there which I point out, which I am not going to deal with at this stage with regards to orientation but what I want to mention, is that the distance between point M5 to the pavilion was approximately 500 metres.  I also want to mention that points B5 and B6, the positions on trees where I found bullet marks which were fired from this direction I am showing to you now. 
 Furthermore, with regards to position PA1, at the pavilion there was also a mark found where the bullet struck the roof of the pavilion and then deflected into the wall.  It is also as shown to you on the area photo plan, fired from the direction I am showing to you now.  Then positions G2 to G5, I found 37mm teargas capsules and in position KA24, one of the lampposts in the street was struck by two bullets which was shown to you on the area photo plan in the direction of the stadium.
 Furthermore, position S9, there was packing material which was identified as the material in which the 40mm grenade launchers were packed.  This is the material in which these grenade launchers were packed.  This doesn't necessarily say that those projectiles were used but this is the material in which it is normally packed.
 Furthermore, Mr Chairperson, with regard to the deployment of line M6, I said that the lampposts which were in the middle of the island, from the first lamppost at the island to the lamppost identified as lamppost number eight, the line was deployed, apparently along this fence and I found several cartridge cases there.  I picked them up there between the fence and the road which we have here, that is the cartridge cases were picked up on the pavement and on the grass.  It does not necessarily mean that it was picked up there in the road where I have shown the lampposts to be.
 Between lampposts one and four, the area I am showing to you now, there was a total of 18 cartridge cases which were picked up, which were fired from eight different weapons and I could positively link three of the weapons.  Between lampposts four and six, a total of 105 cartridge cases were picked up which were fired from 19 different firearms of which I could positively link 11.  Between lampposts six and eight, there was a total of 26 cartridge cases which I picked up, fired from four firearms of which I could positively link three.
 At line M4 in the region of K23, there were 36 cartridge cases which were picked up which were fired from seven different firearms and I could positively identify one.  Mr Chairman, this is my evidence with regard to my reconstruction of the scene and of the ballistics in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Could we perhaps put questions to you?  I think the panel would love to put one or two questions to you.  Advocate Potgieter?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Chairperson.