Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mooiriver — 1997-05-28

WITNESS:   I do not have the school uniform because I can't buy school uniform.  I cannot even pay for my school fees.

KHOZA MGOJO: How much do you pay the school?

WITNESS:   The last time I went to school it was R20,00.

KHOZA MGOJO: With the new government there has been provision that from first year up to standard 10 there are no payments made to the school, and that the children who cannot pay for their schooling can go to school for free, and receive books for free.  With regard to the school fees as well as the books, you can get them when you go back to school without having to pay.  I hope you do understand that.  Now, we want you to tell us about the other two who are not attending school, who left school at standard six.

WITNESS:   They are older than me.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you think they have a desire to go back to school?

WITNESS:   Yes, because they can learn a trade in order to be able to maintain themselves.

KHOZA MGOJO: It's not necessary that they go back to school behind the desk, they can learn sculpturing, or art, or any other type of skill that they are interested in just to be able to work for themselves.  If they could come forward or submit their names they could be helped in this regard.  I just wanted to explain that to you.

CHAIRPERSON: It's difficult for us to imagine, Thandeka, what it must have been like for you as a child to see your father killed, murdered in front of you.  You sit here in front of us so confident and articulate one would never believe that you had suffered such a dreadful experience.  It's also difficult for us to understand the extreme callousness and brutality of people, of men who would murder an unarmed man in front of his children.  It really is a very difficult thing to come to terms with.
And we thank you both for being brave enough to come here and tell us that story.  We can see how this thing has affected both of you, and we are glad that you are able to be here to tell the story together, and to support each other.  Thank you very, very much indeed.
/CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: The next witness is Matrina Zaca.  Good afternoon, Mrs Zaca, we welcome you here today.  Thank you for coming in in this cold weather.  You've got someone on the stage here with you.  Who is that?

MRS ZACA: My granddaughter.  My granddaughter.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And is she just here to be with you?  Is she going to talk at all?

MRS ZACA: She was there when this incident occurred.  I wasn't there.  I only went there to look for my sons.  That's when I discovered that they were late.

CHAIRPERSON: How old is your granddaughter.

MRS ZACA: 16 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Zaca, the problem is that the Commission has taken a - has made a rule that no one under the age of 18 may give evidence in public, so we can speak to your granddaughter afterwards in private, but we're not allowed to allow a person who is under the age of 18 to give evidence in public.  Were there any other grandchildren or children who were present at the time who are here with you today?

MRS ZACA: No, no one.  They aren't here.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... then we'll have to speak to your granddaughter afterwards, and if you can just tell us the background to what was happening in the township at the time.  And it may be better if your granddaughter then goes and waits for you in the chair there, that she doesn't stay on the stage, because we don't allow people under 18 to be on here.  Before you tell what you do know please can you take the oath, and you don't need to stand up.
/ZWELEKILE
ZWELEKILE MATRINA ZACA   (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: This was in August 1991.

WITNESS:   That's what I heard.

CHAIRPERSON: At that time ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   It was on August 29.

CHAIRPERSON: ... were you living together as a family?  How many children did you have?  Was your husband still alive?  Just tell us a bit about the background.

WITNESS:   I had seven children, and I lost two, and I am still with the remaining five.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... or are they working?  Are they helping to support you?  What is the position?

WITNESS:   Some of them are married and they are in their own places.  One just died in January, who was working.  There's no one at home who's working at the moment.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you on pension, are you receiving a State pension?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am on pension.

CHAIRPERSON: And do you support yourself?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And your husband, is he ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   He died a long time ago before I lost my children.

CHAIRPERSON: And the two boys, Mlotha and Muhle, what age were they when they died?

WITNESS:   I am not sure.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... were they teenagers, were they young boys, were they ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   Teenagers.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Mlotha was not in school because he was handicapped, and this other one, Muhle, was working.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... handicapped?  Was he physically disabled or mentally disabled?

WITNESS:   Mentally handicapped.  He couldn't speak and he couldn't use his hands, and this other one was normal. And he was working at the time of his death?   ---  Yes, he was working.

CHAIRPERSON: What was happening in the township at that time, August 1991?  Was there fighting?  Was there violence?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was violence.  There was terrible violence at that time.  And they didn't die in my house, they died somewhere.  Because my other son was handicapped, so I had to remove them from my house to ask for refuge somewhere.  And Muhle had injured his legs, so that's why they were not with me.  These people looked for them until they found them there.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Weston.

CHAIRPERSON: Weston?

WITNESS:   Weston College.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... next to Brandville, the farm school.

WITNESS:   That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And is that the place where some people took refuge or fled to to get away from the violence?

WITNESS:   That's correct.  They didn't go there to look for these two boys, they went there because they were looking for the refugees.  That's where they found them and killed them and I was left alone.

CHAIRPERSON: (Inaudible) ... amongst refugees who fled to Weston.

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And tell us what you know about how they died, Mrs Zaca.  I know that you must have been told about this by other people, including your young granddaughter.  Tell us what you know about it.

WITNESS:   I wasn't there, and I wasn't at home, I went to my husband's brother's house because he had lost a child at that time.  I only got back home early in the morning.  That's when I received a call that they have died and they are in the mortuary here in Mooi River.  Three of them came back from hospital after they were injured, and these two died instantly.  Almost five of them died that day, but because of God's will it didn't happen that way.  Only two died.  I only heard that when they came there they kicked the door.  The house was lit and they got inside.  They said they were looking for boys.  Then they saw Muhle.  They shot at him, and they went for Mlotha.  They shot at him as well.  My elder daughter woke up and asked them what was happening, so they shot her as well, and then they left.  They left them lying there.  I received a call from here and then I went there.  When I arrived there they were no longer there, and police told the white people from Brixton and they took their bodies.  There was no case, and even the witnesses, people who were there, couldn't say who killed them because they had Balaclavas covering their faces.

CHAIRPERSON: The people who ran away and took refuge at Weston, who were those people?  Which political group were they from?

WITNESS:   ANC.  Those people were the ANC members.