Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR WESSELS: That is on the day after the shooting incident that occurred.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I met Colonel Booi at his office.

MR WESSELS: What happened when you met Colonel Booi at his office?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: General Kawe came to Colonel Booi's office and he said me and Bra Mos must make statements.

MR WESSELS: Is that all that happened?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

MR WESSELS: Would you kindly turn to page 38 of the bundle of documents? About the 6th line from the bottom. The sentence reads as follows
"On our arrival at the Umtata head office security branch Colonel Booi took us to General Kawe."
Do you have that reference?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I see Sir.

MR WESSELS: It does not state there that General Kawe came to Colonel Booi's office as you have now explained.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: When we arrived we went to Colonel Booi's office. General Kawe came to the office of Colonel Booi and he then say I and Bra Mos must make statements. We then proceeded making those statements. We then moved from that office to General Kawe's office.

MR WESSELS: Very well. Regarding the making of the statements is it your evidence that only you and Bra Mos were instructed to make statements?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

MR WESSELS: Now I don't want to play with words but was the instruction that only the two of you must make statements and not the others or was the instruction that the two of you must make statements? Do you understand the emphasis that I am drawing between the two versions that I am putting to you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I would like the question to be repeated please?

MR WESSELS: Is it your evidence that the instruction was that only - and let's underline only, that only you and Bra Mos must make statements and not the others?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir. I am certain Sir.

MR WESSELS: Did anybody tell the other two persons not to make statements? That is Shosha and Shabalala.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I do not remember and I did not get to hear anything about them.

MR WESSELS: Were all four of you in General Kawe's presence at Umtata or was it just yourself in the presence of General Kawe?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was myself and Bra Mos.

MR WESSELS: And why was it necessary for only you and Bra Mos to make the statements?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: We were told that it was in preparation of the case so that it cannot fly - to destroy the case that is.

MR WESSELS: This reference to the destroying of the case was that mentioned by General Kawe?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir. Just to go on to refer. After we made those statements we were then told that it is only me and Shabalala who were supposed to accept being charged. All of that in preparation for destroying that case.

MR WESSELS: Well let us now not confuse the issue. There were two incidents. The first report, the first appearance there with General Kawe that you referred to and then after a couple of days when you were called again. Do you remember that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes I do remember that.

MR WESSELS: Now I am presently dealing with the first visit to General Kawe when you were instructed as you say that only you and Bra Mos were to make statements. At that stage, on that occasion, that first occasion was there talk of the destroying of the case?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes there was talk.

MR WESSELS: By General Kawe, is that your evidence?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes Sir.

MR WESSELS: Was there talk at the second visit to General Kawe's office of the destroying of the case?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Even when we were at the office of Colonel Booi it started there when we arrived.

MR WESSELS: Just listen to what I am asking you. You have explained to us now that on your first visit to General Kawe's office there was talk about the destroying of the case. What I am asking you is was there talk of the destroying of the case at your second visit? This is after a few days at your second visit to General Kawe's office?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes there was, even from when we first arrived. Even at the second occasion he did.

MR WESSELS: Let us then just look at your founding affidavit and I will ask you to turn to page 14 of the bundle of documents at paragraph 31. Do you have that in front of you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes.

MR WESSELS: Paragraph 31 reads that
"General Kawe, who was the head of the security branch instructed that only myself and Bra Mos should make statements concerning the incident."

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I see it Sir.

MR WESSELS: And then paragraph 32 deals with the second visit. Do you see that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I do Sir.

MR WESSELS: In other words in paragraph 31 dealing with the first visit there is no reference there of destroying the case. Do you agree with me?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It does refer to that in the sense that he said it is only me and Bra Mos who are supposed to make statements. And yet we were four operatives at the incident.

MR WESSELS: I understand what you are saying but what I am pointing out to you is that in paragraph 31 you describe the first visit to General Kawe and nowhere in paragraph 31 do you make any mention of the fact that it was said by General Kawe that the statements must be made so that the case can be destroyed. Do you see that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: As far as I am concerned this is very clear that when he said statements must be made by myself and Bra Mos and yet we were four it shows.

MR WESSELS: I propose labouring that point further. Let us deal with the command structure as it was in 1984 at head office Umtata. Who was Colonel Booi's supervisor?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: General Kawe.

MR WESSELS: Was there not somebody in between?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: There were people in between.

MR WESSELS: Give me their names?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: General Damooi, Brigadier Tamsanye.

MR WESSELS: General Damooi at that stage still a brigadier?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes he was a brigadier at the time.

MR WESSELS: Did you report to Brigadier Damooi on your return to Umtata after the shooting incident?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No we go to Colonel Booi.

MR WESSELS: Would you please turn to page 18 of the bundle of documents? This is part of the cover-up statement if we can refer to it as that. Do you agree? Page 17 and 18 is part of the so-called cover-up statement?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR WESSELS: Now on page 18 the second last paragraph the last sentence of the second last paragraph reads
"We then returned to Umtata and reported the matter to Brigadier Damooi."
Do you see that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes I do see that.

MR WESSELS: Was that the truth?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No Sir we got to Colonel Booi.

MR WESSELS: Why does that reference to the reporting to Brigadier Damooi appear in that statement?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: As I have said so before that this statement was written more as a statement to cover up the truth and some of the things were added that were added even without my knowledge departing from the statement that may have been written by hand.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dandala if you had reported to Colonel Booi upon your return to Umtata do you know what were the reasons for suggesting that you reported to Brigadier Damooi when in fact you didn't report to him? What would be the purpose of saying you reported to Brigadier Damooi instead of Colonel Booi? Do you know what would be the reason for that?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I do not understand why such a thing would be written as from even the beginning I never made a mistake of saying that we were reporting to Brigadier Damooi.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you read this statement before you signed it?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I did read it Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you query anything in this statement?