Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-24

INTERPRETER: I am sorry I can't hear the microphone is off.  They beat her up and they put a tire on him - on her.  There was nobody who could stop this, the police were looking for - for her but they were lost and they couldn't find her.  She tried to go to them, when she got there, the people who tried to hurt her and [indistinct] they couldn't because she didn't have a voice, the police took her to Bloemfontein.
In Bloemfontein she stayed for three days, she started to mention everybody who did this to her.  Then after that, she died.  They didn't allow her to be buried in Colesberg, because they said she was an informer.  After - they said if she was buried there, they were going to burn the church.  Then she ended up being buried in Pilonome Hospital, that's where I will stop for a moment.

UNKNOWN: I assume that this incident had taken place in the township in Colesberg.

MR MALITI: Sorry?

UNKNOWN: I assume that the incident happened in the township in Colesberg.

MR MALITI: In the location.

UNKNOWN: In the location?

MR MALITI: Yes it was [indistinct]

UNKNOWN: Now was the deceased involved in any politics, supporting any movement?

MR MALITI: Yes he was in every meeting that was held, she never missed any.

UNKNOWN: In those days there was the UDF, the United Democratic Front.

MR MALITI: Yes it was the UDF.

UNKNOWN: She supported that movement?

MR MALITI: Sorry.

UNKNOWN: She was supporting that movement.

MR MALITI: Yes she use to attend UDF meetings every day.

UNKNOWN: You - I assume you knew the deceased well.

MR MALITI: No I can't hear well no.

UNKNOWN: I will just repeat that - I'll repeat the question just see if it's coming through to you.  I accept that you knew Ms Delato well.

MR MALITI: Yes I knew her well.

UNKNOWN: Ja, was there - was there any truth in this allegation that she was an impiempi an informer?

MR MALITI: She is my cousin, my uncle who was a policeman was looking for her, they said if they can't get part of her family, they are going to get her then.  That's they got her, now but the reason why they burn her is because my uncle is a policeman.

UNKNOWN: And the people responsible, who are they - I mean - what - where do they belong in the - in the situation in the location at that stage, were they comrades - what were they - were they [intervention]

MR MALITI: When they - what they called themselves was that they were comrades.

UNKNOWN: You say that their names were given to the police, do you know what happened further?

MR MALITI: Yes they were arrested in 1985 and they were sent to Middelburg Cape.  Then after that they were arrested.  I am sure they got out of the prison after Mandela was released from prison, then they were also released.  One of them was going to be hanged, I don't know what  saved him, his name is Tifo Sihlaba.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much, I've got no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you - are there any further questions, Dumisa Ntsebeza.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Is your name Thomzama?

MR MALITI: Yes my name is Thomzama.

ADV NTSEBEZA: There are just a few things that I would like us to explain,  you said while this happened there was a boycott of the shops that time.  One of the names stood up we were told now that we should boycott all the shops, a consumer boycott.  Your mother's main offence was that she went to  buy meat from the butchery, is there anything else?

WITNESS: No there is nothing else is just   end of Tape 15, side B ...

ADV NTSEBEZA: You will correct me if I am wrong, she tried to clear her name.

MR MALITI: Yes sir.

ADV NTSEBEZA: According to the report that you gave us earlier, the people who were taking the statements earlier of the Commission.  She paid in
R100-00.

MR MALITI: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Where did she send this R100-00?

MR MALITI: She send it to the comrades and the comrades announced it that she did pay this R100-00 trying to ask for forgiveness for buying meat during a consumer boycott, they said they forgive her.  At that time she was staying in town, not in the township.  Now she took this letter to the township.

ADV NTSEBEZA: In other words she wrote a letter, saying that is asking for forgiveness for what she has done, and she would like to come back to live in the township, but - and she was told that - yes she has been forgiven by the comrades and again this was announced in the meeting.  It was announced that  yes she was forgiven?

MR MALITI: Yes this was so.

ADV NTSEBEZA: When she came back to the township she was under the impression that she was forgiven.

MR MALITI: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: In other words her killing - she was killed while she was still under the impression that she was safe, knowing that she was forgiven.

MR MALITI: Yes that's so.

ADV NTSEBEZA: When did the police come in?

MR MALITI: The police arrived when she was burnt already.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What do you mean now by that?

MR MALITI: When the police came in, they could - they were trying to find out where she was, but they could hear her crying.  They saw her in the Main Road, she was already alight.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Did she run after she was burnt?

MR MALITI: No she couldn't run, she was just walking slowly, her clothes were burning.  She went to the direction where the police were.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Was she walking around while she was naked?

MR MALITI: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Were the people afraid to help her?

MR MALITI: No-one was allowed by the comrades to help her, so she went alone to the van.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Where these comrades who were chasing people away, where were these people at this time?

MR MALITI: There were five of them, at the beginning there were too many but at the end they were just five, one of them was Tifo Sihlaba, it was Tabo Gusha, Pinkdyaan Kelem, Toto Mayaba, Tembile Falati.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What about Zolile Silwayane?

MR MALITI: Zolile Silwayane is the one who actually accepted the money, he is the leader of this whole situation.

ADV NTSEBEZA: I just wanted to clarify that.  So Zolile is the one who accepted the money?

MR MALITI: Yes he is the one who - he is the one who announced that  she has - he had received the money and that he was the one who actually went back again and said she must be ignited.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now this policeman Fezile Malitiba  - Maliti is he your uncle?

MR MALITI: Yes she is my uncle and the deceased uncle.  We are [indistinct] to him.

ADV NTSEBEZA: So you are related to Fezile?

MR MALITI: Yes, my mother is Fezile's brother.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Who is Fezile now?

MR MALITI: Fezile is the policeman - Fezile Maliti is his name.  He was wanted because he was a policeman, but because he was staying in town the comrades couldn't get him.  The actual person who they wanted was Fezile, now the comrades.

ADV NTSEBEZA: So the comrades decided to take - to take Fezile's relative.

MR MALITI: First they came to me, then they went to my - to the deceased.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What was your offence?

MR MALITI: Our offence was because we were related to this policeman - Fezile our uncle.   I ran to Cape Town.

ADV NTSEBEZA: We understand Thomzama that this is very painful, could you please and endure until I finished asking questions.  These questions will enable us to finish this report.
This - this is a very unique case from all the cases we have heard, we've been listening to cases where our people were being killed by police and the Government but now this is unique because our people now are being killed by our own people at the same time.  But now we are forced now to try and get all the details about this, so that in the report that we make, the Chairman of this Commission can be able to bring out the foolishness of these murders just by suspicion - just a few questions then I will let you go.  Do you know the husband to the deceased?