Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

WITNESS:   I received a telephone call.  That was in the evening.  It was in 1993 on a Monday, Monday evening.  It was at about quarter past eight or half past eight, thereabouts.  I was phoned and told that my son-in-law had been shot.  Two youths got into the house.  They were wearing coats, and they said they were policemen, and they said they wanted to see Thami.  And they were told that Thami was already asleep, and they went around searching for him in the house and they got into the bedroom.  They said to him he must take out the guns, because they had come to get the guns that he was manufacturing.  He directed them to look for the guns themselves, to search if they wanted to, because he did not know anything about the guns.  They told him to take out the guns, and he said they should search for them because they said they were policemen.  They did not even go into the other bedrooms to search, they just shot him on the chest.  And each time he asked them as to what he had done they kept on changing and they kept on shooting him.  When he tried to run away they held him - they held her and they said she should watch her husband being killed, and she was forced to sit down.  She sat down and watched as they shot her husband several times, until such time that he fell, he collapsed.  She was not sure as to how many bullets were pumped into his body.  So I am staying with his children presently.  I was staying them even after the accident, and I asked as to where he was.  They told me that he had been taken to the hospital.  I phoned King Edward Hospital, but I could not get any reply.  My husband told me not to phone because probably he was at the theatre.  Even if we wanted to visit him we would not be able to see him.  We tried several times to phone, but nobody answered the phone.  Then at about 5 o'clock in the morning I tried once more, and I asked as to where my son-in-law was and I told them the name of my son-in-law.  I also introduced myself as well and I told them that I was his mother-in-law.  They told me that he had died at 10 past 10.  They had tried all they could, but they could not save him because he was bleeding profusely due to the wounds, and he died at 10.  But the most disturbing thing is that I am staying with his children and I am maintaining his children.  I don't have the power to maintain the whole family single-handedly, because I have to put them through school as well, and at times when they ask for things as children I cannot be able to give them whatever they ask for, and this makes me feel so bad.  Because I don't know who can help me to raise the children because the money that my husband gets cannot be able to make ends meet for the whole family.  It cannot keep the whole family above water.  I don't know how or where I can get help.  Then I said to my daughter we should go to Thembalihle in KwaMashu.  When we got there they were accepted, they were welcomed, and now I was scared to stay at the sister-in-law's place so we had to come back.  She told them as to where the husband was working.  They required the address of where the husband was working.  They told her to take the children's birth certificates and submit them to their offices, and she duly did that.  When one of them was being stamped at the post office we were told to go to the police station, and we went to the police station to have one birth certificate stamped.  When we went to Thembalihle to submit the statements they did help us, because my daughter is also not working, she lost her job where she was working before.  The officer at Thembalihle Welfare told her to stay for five years and they would phone her and give her a file number.

DR MAGWAZA: This is a very terrible story that happened to your daughter.  There are a few questions that I want to ask from you, but this is going to be troublesome because Bhuwisile is not here and she is the one who is supposed to be answering these questions.  Let's just go back.  How old was your son-in-law when he died?

WITNESS:   I think he was 32 years old, but I am not very positive about that.  I am not sure whether he was 35, but he was in his early thirties.

DR MAGWAZA: Did he belong to any political organisation?

WITNESS:  He was a member of the ANC.

DR MAGWAZA: In your own opinion what was the reason for the attack?

WITNESS:   My daughter told me that the policemen who came there told him that he had moved from a certain place to come and be a comrade there, and comrades were not acceptable there.  And when he asked what a comrade was they said he knew exactly what the comrade was, and he had come to that place with comrade tendencies.

DR MAGWAZA: In your statement they said he must take out some guns.  Did he keep any guns?

WITNESS:   No, he didn't have even a single gun.

DR MAGWAZA: One other thing that's in your statement is that after they had killed him they said he must go and rest in heaven together with his comrades.  I don't know how this happened because you said he died in hospital.

WITNESS:   The people who had come to shoot him said they had killed the dog when they were going out.  They said that on their way out.

DR MAGWAZA: Had he died at that time?

WITNESS:   No, he had fallen, but he had not yet died.  He did not die at the same time, he died at the hospital.

DR MAGWAZA: The attackers, who did they say they were?

WITNESS:   They said they were police, but Bhuwile says she suspects that they were IFP members.

DR MAGWAZA: What made her suspect that they were not police but IFP members?

WITNESS:   She says they asked whether she was a comrade.

DR MAGWAZA: According to Bhuwile does she know the people?  Had she ever seen them before?

WITNESS:   She cannot identify them.  That's what she said to me.  I also asked her as to whether she could identify them because they did not disguise in any way.  She said no, she could not point them out.

DR MAGWAZA: Who else was in the house at the time the incident took place?

WITNESS:   The children were present, but they were very young at that age.  Her children were with me.  There was the youngest one who was with her.  She was two years old at that time.

DR MAGWAZA: I want to go back to Bhuwile, and I'll explain to you as to why I want to dwell on Bhuwile, because this troubles me that Bhuwile never came to submit a statement, and even today she is not here.  According to your own opinion what is her problem?

WITNESS:   I think her mind is not functioning very well, because after this incident she sort of lost her mind.  She is not of sound mental health.  I believe it's due to the worries, because she usually says she is going to the shops and she never goes to the shops, she goes around getting into other people's houses, or neighbours' houses.  And I believe that this started in 1995, and even my husband commented that she is not of sound mental health.

DR MAGWAZA: What else does she do that is out of way, that makes you suspect that she is not sound mentally?

WITNESS:   I usually see when I ask for money from her then she would ask me as to where is she working.  She does not have money.

DR MAGWAZA: But where would she get money if she was not working?

WITNESS:   I would say she should give me money, because even my son-in-law used to give me money and maintain the children.

DR MAGWAZA: Was the son-in-law not working?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was working.

DR MAGWAZA: Is there any money that Bhuwile got from the son-in-law's work?

WITNESS:   She told me that she was going to earn whatever money for four years from her husband's work.  I think she is earning some money, because it's four years now since.  She does not take anybody along when she goes to get the money. Are you not scared that she will get injured when she goes alone?   ---   No, I never get scared.  I always leave her to go alone.  I put all that in the hands of the Lord.