Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

CHAIRPERSON: ... is sitting here, but it was unavoidable.  Before we commence, I would just like to introduce the panel to you.  On my right we have Mrs Acting Justice Khampepe of the Cape Division now.  On my far left is Mr Jake Moloi, who is an attorney in Pretoria.  He's the State Attorney there.  On my immediate left is Mr Johnny Motata, who is an advocate from Johannesburg, and I am Selwyn Miller, a Judge attached to the Transkei Division of the High Court.  I'd like the legal representatives please, at this stage, to place themselves on record for this portion of the hearing.

MR MAGADI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, my name is Sheldon Magadi from the Campus Law Clinic, together with Advocate Angus Stewart from the Durban Bar.  We represent Mr Daluxolo Luthuli, Mr Bhekiza Alex Khumalo and Mr David Zweli Dlamini.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, Committee members.  I am John Wills, an attorney from Pietermaritzburg.  I represent the applicants R M Mbambo, B G Mkhize, I N Hlongwane and B B Ndlovu.

MR NTULI: Thank you, Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  My name is Obed Ntuli.  I'm an attorney from Nelspruit representing the family of Theledi, victims of the applicant who will be heard just now.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you, Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  J M Mpshe for the TRC.

MR MULLER: Mr Chairman, my name is Kobus Muller.  I'm an attorney from Pretoria, from the firm Wagner Muller.  I'm representing Mr Funani Mthethwa who is an implicated person.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR HEWITT: Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  My name is Jeff Hewitt.  I am senior counsel from Durban and I am instructed by Mr Patrick Falconer, an attorney of Durban, and we represent in these proceedings various implicated persons whom the applicants have and will continue to implicated in these proceedings.

MR SWANEPOEL: Mr Chairman, members of the Committee.  My name is Konraad Swanepoel.  I'm an advocate from Pretoria on instruction of Mr Chris van Heyde, an attorney from Pretoria.  I represent several implicated persons in these proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Yes, the proceedings will be translated, I'm told, into English and Zulu.  Channel two (2) is English and channel three (3) is the Zulu interpretation on these little machines.
	This afternoon we will be hearing, I'm told, the evidence of one of the applicants, Mr Mbambo with regard to an incident which took place in the Bushbuck Ridge area.  Mr Mbambo, together with the other applicants in this matter, the other number of applicants in this matter, have all given evidence previous to today.  This hearing has commenced some time ago, I think it was in March of this year when we sat in Durban and we heard about incidents that occurred in the Durban area.  And then from Durban we moved up and we sat for a couple of weeks in Richards Bay where we heard further evidence as to occurrences which occurred in that region.  And then last month we moved down to the Hammarsdale area where we had another hearing, where we heard about incidents that occurred there.  And then of this whole application, this is the last leg of it, as it were, where not all the applicants are involved, but only two of them.  Mr Mbambo and Mr Hlongwane will be testifying as to incidents which occurred in this area, as well as the one incident which occurred in the Bushbuck Ridge area.  So, we'll now commence with Mr Mbambo's evidence.  Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you, Mr ... (incomplete)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo, I know from before, you don't have any objection to taking the oath.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: (Sworn States)

CHAIRPERSON: I think that was my fault for not switching off.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  May I commence?  Yes.  Mr Chairperson, for the record, the evidence that this applicant will be leading this afternoon is contained in his affidavit commencing at paragraph ninety four (94), which appears on page forty two (42) of Volume one (1).  For the benefit of members of the public, we will be briefly looking at his background which will summarise the first section of his affidavit.  Mr Mbambo, you've been a loyal supporter of the, initially Inkatha Movement and later than that the Inkatha Freedom Party prior to your arrest?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: (REPLY NOT INTERPRETED)

MR WILLS: And it was as a result of this association that you eventually decided to join the KwaZulu Police?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That's correct.

MR WILLS: Now, there was a certain individual by the name of Siphiwe Mvuyane who was an influential person in your life.  He too was a member of the KwaZulu Police and a staunch IFP supporter, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: And it was largely his influence which caused you to become a member of the KwaZulu Police?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: I want to refer you to paragraph six (6) of your affidavit which appears at page five (5) of the bundle, to just briefly describe the circumstances surrounding your joining the KwaZulu Police.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Are you asking me to open paragraph six (6)?

MR WILLS: Yes, page five (5) of the affidavit.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, I've found it.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Sorry, I just want you to tell us about the incident that occurred at Ulundi where you were in the presence of Siphiwe Mvuyane.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Siphiwe Mvuyane was a police of the KwaZulu Police Department, and he was also a member of the hit squad, acting as a commander of the hit squad in Natal, the South Region and also the Durban Central.  He was involved in hit squads in most of these areas, and there was an investigation on him and he was supposed to be arrested by the South African Police.  They have already requested that the KwaZulu Police should suspend him so that he could be investigated.  He was called to come to Ulundi by Ntwana Chief Gatsha Buthelezi who was the Minister of the KwaZulu Police at the time.  He wanted to discuss about the suspension.  Siphiwe requested me to accompany him to Ulundi.  We went together to Ulundi.  When we arrived at the Legislature in the KwaZulu Government that's where we met Dr M G Buthelezi.  After the discussions Siphiwe told me that they had discussion about his suspension and the Chief Minister agreed that Siphiwe should not be suspended from the KwaZulu Police.  However, the Chief Minister, referred to as Ntwana of Phindangene requested that Siphiwe shall come to work at Ulundi.  However, since Siphiwe was a person who lived in the cities, he didn't like going to go and work at Ulundi.  He put conditions that he can only come to work at Ulundi if he could be put in charge of any particular unit there.  All the units which were existing at Ulundi had their own commanders.  Therefore there wasn't any unit in which he could be assign.  Therefore they have to establish a new unit and they called it the Firearm Unit and they made him the commander.  Those were the things that they discussed with the Chief Minister.

MR WILLS: Yes, but this was reported to you by Mvuyane.  You weren't actually present at that meeting?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: In paragraph ten (10) of your affidavit you commence to say how Brian Gin Mkhize, one of your co-applicants in this matter, approached you in order to become a member of the hit squad.  Now, I know the Esikhawini hit squad.  I know that you've told this evidence before.  I'd like you to briefly go over it so that the members of the public are put in the picture as regards how you joined this hit squad, but I want you to concentrate on being as brief as possible.  If any party here to these proceedings wants more detail, I'm sure they'll ask.