Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-19

MR MPUNGA: My request to the Commission might be different from the others.  I hear people asking for forgiveness but I am still heartbroken.  Do you realise that I will never be the same Manzolwandle that I was before I was shot?  I was shot for nothing, I was innocent.  I requested the Commission, pull up your socks, you must sift as what you should forgive people for.  You can't just forgive perpetrators of violence.  In my life and our lives in South Africa we want peace but if the government, together with this Commission will just forgive people, perpetrators of violence, people are going to carry on being murdered if murderers are being forgiven.
 Even if it's one person that you do not forgive so that we also can have peace in our hearts and say that, yes justice has been done.  There are 18, at least 18 people who died and it is only one person who is responsible, but you are going to come out and say that that person is forgiven, 
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forgiven for lives that were taken without sin.  
 People just want their rights.  We went there unarmed, all we had was our fists up.  I didn't have sword, I didn't have a gun.  So I request that this Commission, I know that you are here for peace, peace is good but you must sift and choose who it is that should be forgiven and for what.

JUNE CRICHTON: Thank you very much for your comments, we have noted them, and I am now going to hand you back to the
Chairperson.
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MR POTGIETER: Thank you very much.  We are going to move to Mr Nebe.  Ntsiki Sandi.
WANDILE NEBE

MR SANDI: Thank you very much Mr Chairperson.  Mr Nebe according to your statement here you were shot at Bisho on this day.  Where exactly were you shot?

WANDILE NEBE: I was on a field at Bisho.

MR SANDI: Were you one of the people that were there?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes.

MR SANDI: How old were you when you got shot?

WANDILE NEBE: I was 20 years of age.

MR SANDI: Were you still at school?  Were you a member of an organisation?

WANDILE NEBE: I was a student.

MR SANDI: Were you able to go back to school?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes I went back to school.

MR SANDI: What standard were you doing at the time?

WANDILE NEBE: I was in standard 8.  It was in 1992.

MR SANDI: Maybe we should elaborate on your injury, exactly where were you injured?

WANDILE NEBE: On my left shoulder.

MR SANDI: Were you healed?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes I got some treatment.

MR SANDI: Was it at the hospital?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes at Frere Hospital.

MR SANDI: How many days did you stay in hospital?

WANDILE NEBE: Ten days at Frere Hospital in East London.

MR SANDI: Are you still getting some treatment?

WANDILE NEBE: No I am not getting treatment presently.

MR SANDI: Do you need treatment?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes I need treatment.
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MR SANDI: Are you saying that you still hurt on your shoulder?

WANDILE NEBE: This arm cannot lift heavy stuff, that is my problem.

MR SANDI: What are you doing at the moment?

WANDILE NEBE: I work in a firm in Dimbaza.

MR SANDI: Is there something else perhaps you would like to add to your statement?

WANDILE NEBE: No I have none.

MR SANDI: Did you go to an attorney?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes I did go.

MR SANDI: What happened to your case?

WANDILE NEBE: I was given money there, by attorneys in King Williamstown.

MR SANDI: Are you satisfied?

WANDILE NEBE: No I am not satisfied.

MR SANDI: You say that you cannot lift heavy stuff with your arm, are you saying that your job is to lift up heavy stuff?

WANDILE NEBE: No not necessarily.

MR SANDI: What exactly do you do?

WANDILE NEBE: We put cloths on long tables.

MR SANDI: According to your statement you are requesting help to continue with your education.

WANDILE NEBE: Yes I do want to carry on with my education.

MR SANDI: Are you studying at the present moment?

WANDILE NEBE: No I am not studying.

MR SANDI: Is that all?

WANDILE NEBE: Yes that is all.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Nebe.  I will hand over to you Chairperson.
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MR POTGIETER: We will move to Thobeka Magoloza.  Mapule thank you.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Good afternoon Ms Magoloza.

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Good afternoon.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: ... you can say about that day, the Bisho Massacre and I believe your story is mostly the same as the others, am I correct?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: What I want you to focus on is your life after what happened at Bisho.  Do you understand my question?  I would like you to focus ...(intervention)

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Won't you please repeat your question.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: I want you to focus on the effect of what happened on your life and the life of your family.

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Health wise I have never been the same again.  My health deteriorated especially when it is cold.   I cannot even go to the clinic when it is cold.  Sometimes I have to just buy Grandpa and have to do with that because my leg would hurt so much.  When it is not so bad I would go to the Berlin Clinic, they would help me there.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: You were in standard 7 when this happened, is that true?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: I had passed standard 7 at the time.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Are you alright?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: I am alright Ma'am.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: In fact you have suffered a double tragedy, not only what happened to you on that fateful day but that your mother was also killed last year.

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: It is so Ma'am.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: You are the oldest of seven siblings.

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes.
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MAPULE RAMASHALA: Your education was disrupted.  Are you all right?  Could you give her some water please.  Miss Magoloza let me try and guide you through your request to the Commission and tell me if that's correct or not.  You'd like to continue your education, but you are unable to do so because of financial problems and you would like the Commission to help with that, correct?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Your leg continues to hurt particularly on cloudy days and you'd like the Commission to help you with the medical attention, correct?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes Ma'am.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And you would like the Commission to help with the maintenance of your siblings particularly since you are the oldest child you are not able to work, correct?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: You have four siblings that are still in school and you would like us to check if we can help, correct?  And you tried to apply for a special pension and you were unsuccessful, correct?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: Yes Ma'am.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Is there anything else on this list that you would like to add?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: No there is nothing else.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Do you seek the attention or assistance of attorneys after the shooting?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: I never went to any attorneys, but two boers came to my home.  I tried to make a claim - they offered that I should make a claim.  I was not able to respond because I thought money would be needed.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Is there anything else you would like to
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add?

THOBEKA MAGOLOZA: There is nothing else Ma'am.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you very much, it's very hard.  Over to you Chairperson.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you Mapule.  Thank you Thobeka.
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BENNETTE NDYUNDYU JACK

MR SANDI: Thank you Chair.  Let us proceed to Mr Jack.  Sir do you stay in Dubu Location?

BENNETTE NDYUNDYU JACK: Yes Sir.

MR SANDI: Were you at the march?

BENNETTE NDYUNDYU JACK: Yes I was.

MR SANDI: You were shot?

BENNETTE NDYUNDYU JACK: Yes I was shot.

MR SANDI: Exactly where in your body were you shot?

BENNETTE NDYUNDYU JACK: I was shot just above my knee on my thigh.

MR SANDI: Did you get any form of treatment?