Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-09-14

CHAIRPERSON: The reason why I am asking this is on that same video, there was apparently problems between Terreblanche and Viljoen, that was on the 2nd of April?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How is it then that you thought that the AWB can receive support from Viljoen is there is problems between the leadership?

MR SMIT: We would not have supported Viljoen.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he not in charge or at the Head of the Military wing of the Security aspect?

MR SMIT: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: You did not have any knowledge that he was the General of the Defence Force?

MR SMIT: Yes, I knew that.

ADV BOSMAN: At that stage, when Mr Terreblanche and Viljoen had problems, what was Viljoen's position then with regards to the Defence Force, was he still in the Defence Force?

MR SMIT: At that stage, as far as my knowledge goes, he was not a member of the Defence Force any more.  He had his own right wing movement and that was the Volksfront.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand you correctly then that according to you, Viljoen would not have anything to do with the war of the AWB?

MR SMIT: In the beginning or in the beginning of the planning, he was involved until he decided to vote.

CHAIRPERSON: But when did you then discover that he is going to vote?

MR SMIT: It was just before April 1994.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it not a few days?

MR SMIT: It was just before the bombs went off.

CHAIRPERSON: The bombings occurred around the 27th, 28th of April.

MR SMIT: I haven't got the exact dates.

CHAIRPERSON: And we are talking now about the 2nd of April.  You see, evidence was led earlier on that indicated that the support of Viljoen and the Defence Force carried a lot of weight, and some of the evidence was that they did not know that when bombs were planted, that Viljoen indeed pulled out?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: But on this video apparently on the 2nd of April already, there were problems between the two?

MR SMIT: I cannot testify about that.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you think, you personally?

MR SMIT: At that stage it did not even come up that there were problems between Viljoen and Terreblanche.

CHAIRPERSON: So you thought that the AWB would still receive support from Viljoen or the Defence Force?

MR SMIT: No, I did not think of Viljoen at all, but I still thought that we would receive support from the Defence Force.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you think that would happen?

MR SMIT: Well, like Chris van der Heever said of the vehicles that we would get at Zeerust, military weapons.

CHAIRPERSON: And men?

MR SMIT: Yes, we did have the men.  Terreblanche said we had 60 000 men.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's say 100 000 men, did you think that 100 000 men would win a war in this country?

MR SMIT: I would win it with 5 000.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you believe that?

MR SMIT: Yes.

MR MALAN: Can I just follow up here, why do you believe that with 5 000 men you would win it?

MR SMIT: At that stage I did believe it.

MR MALAN: You believed it then?  Can I just follow the following up, you said that the men went to go and greet their wives for the last time?

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MR MALAN: Why do you say that?

MR SMIT: At that stage like I also testified, it was within a time span of 24 hours from when we left the game farm and the afternoon when the men left to go home where Gen Ackerman said that we cannot turn back, things are looking good, we now continue.
	So we went to go and greet them and then continue with this war for a month or a year.

MR MALAN: You see, you initially thought that it would be very short and the evidence that we received from all the applicants was that they accepted that it would be a long period because they sold all their assets, they brought their families with them.  The women were there.

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MR MALAN: And that they would build up a community there to start the Volkstaat?

MR SMIT: That is correct.  Every person had his own view.

MR MALAN: But you testified that it would be a short period of time and then everybody would go home?

MR SMIT: That is correct, everybody had his own opinion.  I left all my things at home and I would have gone to fetch it.

MR MALAN: Don't you want to talk just for yourself then, you said we and our group.  Every time you talk on behalf of the group.  If you have an opinion, please make it clear that you are busy with your own opinion.

MR SMIT: Yes, I will do that.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you carry any knowledge that people left their homes and left their work?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did they do this?

MR SMIT: Like I said everybody has his own opinion.  They thought it would be a long thing, I thought it would be a short thing.

MS VAN DER WALT: You further mention that at the shooting range, there was a further discussion with regards to explosions?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: What did you hear there?

MR SMIT: I heard that the last bomb must go to Jan Smuts airport.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who gave this instruction?

MR SMIT: Nico Prinsloo.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you hear why it had to go to Jan Smuts?

MR SMIT: Yes, it was for international publicity, in order to stop or prevent any international investments and communism was supported by foreign countries.

MS VAN DER WALT: Who was present when this discussion took place?

MR SMIT: It was myself, Abie Fourie, Johan van der Merwe, Nico Prinsloo and Johan du Plessis.

CHAIRPERSON: What about the white people that would have been killed in that bomb?

MR SMIT: Like I said earlier on, in war there is no innocent people.   There are no innocent people.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you then remain or stay behind at the shooting range?

MR SMIT: No, I also went back to my home.  I then went to my parents' home in Pretoria.

MS VAN DER WALT: This Gen Ackerman that you are talking about, what is his position in the AWB?

MR SMIT: I am not quite sure, all that I know is that he was part of the Generals in Staff.

MS VAN DER WALT: Evidence was led that there were two Ackermans.  Of which Ackerman are you talking about, the one who was at the shooting range?

MR SMIT: It was Dirk Ackerman.

MS VAN DER WALT: That was at the shooting range?

MR SMIT: No, it was at the game farm.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were there any other Generals who visited the game farm, except for Ackerman?

MR SMIT: With him was Alec Cruywagen and then a third person whom I do not know.

MS VAN DER WALT: When did they visit this game farm?

MR SMIT: You now mentioned a meeting where the pipe-bombs were discussed.  Was this before or after?

MR SMIT: It was after, it was the morning of the 26th of April.

MS VAN DER WALT: That was the morning before you left for the shooting range?

MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Statements were made to some of the applicants that the people who acted there at the game farm and at the shooting range, was a splinter group or the people at Koesterfontein.  What is your comment on this?

MR SMIT: No, it was not a splinter group.  All the groups from Koster and the shooting range and countrywide, we were a combined group in instructions from the Generals in Staff and Eugene Terreblanche.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know if there were any other explosions, except for those in Johannesburg and in ...

MR SMIT: That is correct.  The Boere Krisis Aksie just before the election, they took responsibility for certain bombings at power lines.

MS VAN DER WALT: Do you know if it was done by the AWB?

MR SMIT: No, not before we started working at the game farm.

MR MALAN: Can I just take you back to a previous question.  You now again said that the people were gathered all over the country by the Generals in Staff.

MR SMIT: That is correct.

MR MALAN: But before you were asked about that, you said that you did not know.  Can I just ask you, is it not true that the evidence of the applicants were that they came from the Free State and some from Natal?