Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-11-19

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Cases in the Western Cape and where, we did not work there long.  After the Guguletu 7 we opened a cell in Crossroads of freedom fighters and some of my members of staff or personnel were involved in inquests where people were wounded and, if I can remember correctly, were killed and in the Yengeni case, we were also responsible for the arrests together with other units, the arrest of Mr Yengeni and his group, that is, and people were also wounded there.  I will have to ask Lieutenant Liebenberg if he has any statistics, but of my personnel were also involved in shooting incidents.  There were incidents in Soweto where some of my personnel were involved as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, how many were there and how many people were killed?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Mr Chairman, ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: That you were responsible for, that you planned operations, that your people, your group performed?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: If I say ten, then it is ten.  I will have to go and enquire as to this, because all our documentation was destroyed at the security head office.  I have no evidence, our colleagues do not want to speak to us to assist us in this case.

CHAIRPERSON: Because I find it difficult that you say here now, I will have to go and enquire.  Surely, before you decide to apply for amnesty, you try to get the information of the various offenses you have been involved in, you discuss it with your attorney and your advocate, you do not say you will have to go and enquire now.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: I asked them about shooting incidents where people were involved, is it necessary to apply for this or only for the controversial cases where we murdered people and then they said that the Guguletu 7 was one such incident, because I brought the weapons from Pretoria and that case, I was scared that I would get the, idea that we were ajan provocateurs.  Some of my people did not apply for this.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, which were the cases where you murdered people?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: It was in the case of Mr Brian Kalunga, the Dirk Coetzee bomb, there were foreign operations, Swaziland and Botswana and there was an incident in the canteen where I was not involved, which I had just had knowledge of.

CHAIRPERSON: Right.  One other matter, I do not know if it is a waste of time or not, because I have not consulted with Mr Mbane, but you have been questioned, quite at length and it appears he is going to give evidence and I think that there are certain other things he has said which you should be given an opportunity to explain before he comes and gives such evidence, if he does and in his statement, not affidavit, which we have been given portion of, he says, and it is at page 393, paragraph 28, that while he was infiltrating these people, Lieutenant Liebenberg sent an informer by the name of Lizo, who was found to have a tape attached to his body, and that he, as Commander, decided to shoot the informer and killed him.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: I have no knowledge of that incident.  I know that he had an informer there, Lieutenant Liebenberg, but the first time I heard about this was whether, when my legal team informed me as to this paragraph.

CHAIRPERSON: So, he talks about having an urgent meeting with Lieutenant Liebenberg to ask him about it and he told him about it, you were not present and Lieutenant Liebenberg never told you?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: No, I have no knowledge of such an incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Because he goes on and says at paragraph 13 that Lieutenant Liebenberg sent another informer, without his knowledge, who was also found with a tape and that he then instructed Chris Rastaman to shoot and kill him.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: I have no knowledge of this.

CHAIRPERSON: And, finally, that yet another informer was sent by Lieutenant Liebenberg who was interrogated by Eric and who admitted that he was an informer and that he and Eric then shot and killed him.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: I have no knowledge of that incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Nobody ever told you, none of your own people, none of your askaris, nor Lieutenant Liebenberg?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Have you got any questions.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Bellingan, you have stated throughout your evidence that the primary objective of the whole operation was to effect an arrest of the insurgents, that is so?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: That is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did you believe that the askaris had succeeded to gain the trust and the confidence of the insurgents?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: At stages I was told that the group did not trust them and that they were antagonistic towards them.  So, I am not 110% sure that they were in control of this insurgents group.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But they had been there for, according to your evidence, almost four weeks, whereas Mr Mbelo had not lasted a night.  He only lasted one night.

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: They were trusted, but there was always the possibility that there could be a problem.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Was it not possible for you to suggest to the askaris to convene a meeting of the group at a venue that you would have previously have discussed with the askaris, which would have, which would then have enabled your group to effect an arrest at a grand scale, because they would have been in one meeting?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: That idea did occur to me, just as one wanted to arrest them, we tried to get them away from Guguletu, but they said that those people would not leave Guguletu.  They were too scared of police roadblocks.  It was raised, we looked at the West Coast Road, at the possibility of catching them there.  These possibilities were investigated, but Mbane told me that those people were too careful and scared, they would not move outside the Black townships.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did Mr Mbane or Mr Maluleka ever told you the type of weaponry that the group possessed?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Yes, I was told from time to time what kind of weapons they had in their possession and how they could still obtain more if they needed them.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And what type of weaponry were you advised were in their possession?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Hand grenades, AK47's and Western weapons, that is weapons that look like those of our countries security branches, were also in their possession from time to time and on occasion we found R5 army guns in a house in Guguletu.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, you also have stated that it was normal practice for Vlakplaas to pay, what you termed, head-money to askaris?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: That is correct.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, what I want to know is, how was the amount determined?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: If I can remember correctly, it was first
R1 000,00 per arrest or whether he was dead or not, 
R1 000,00 per head and then later this amount was moved up to R2 000,00 or R2 500,00 and this was determined on merit.  I cannot say how this was determined, it can, it was revised regularly.  It could even be revised yearly.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So, the amount was not dependent on the type of operation which had to be executed?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: Yes, if it was high risk, it could have been higher.  It depended on the Commanding Officer.  I only gave the motivation and they gave the motivation to the Secret Fund Department.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Now, on this occasion there were no arrests?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: No, it was either dead or alive.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So, on what basis did you proceed to effect a, head-money of R7 000,00 to each askari?

W RIAAN BELLINGAN: I included this all in my report with a covering letter.  I would give it to Colonel de Kock and he would send it to Brigadier Schoon and Brigadier Schoon would take it to the Commanding Officer of the Security Police.  I could not decide what the amount was to be.

SISI KHAMPEPE: No, why did you pay R7 000,00 to each askari, because there were no arrests which had been effected?