Amnesty Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1997-09-10

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you recall that there was a parade of prison and police officers and police witnesses and prison officials in Port Elizabeth and in Pretoria who all said that they saw this injury.  The only persons who denied that that injury was not clearly visible, was you and your colleagues in the security police.  Do you recall that?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, I did not notice this mark.  I did, however, subsequently gain the information from statements received that Mr Biko had fallen from a bed and also at the Walmer Police Station, it might have occurred there. I did not notice it and that is why it is not mentioned in any of my statements.

GEORGE BIZOS: Where did you get the story that he fell out of a bed?

MR SNYMAN: I had heard that this was noted down in statements.

GEORGE BIZOS: Whose statements were they?

MR SNYMAN: I do not know the names of the persons, but I believe it was the warden and someone at the police station.

GEORGE BIZOS: The one difference between your story now and the story that you told in Pretoria, is that in Pretoria you described how - you described how, when, after Biko fell, he fought against the
four security policemen that he had had a scuffle with and that it took a considerable period of time to bring him under control.  Have I summarised your evidence correctly?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, that statement made at the judicial inquest was false as I have said at the beginning.

GEORGE BIZOS: I asked you whether I have correctly summarised your evidence?

MR SNYMAN: (No audible reply).

GEORGE BIZOS: Have I correctly summarised your evidence?

MR SNYMAN: I do not know, your Honour.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, we'll refer to the passages in order to satisfy you and the Committee that it is a correct summary, but let us proceed.
	Do you recall that it was the opinion of Prof Procter, of Prof Loubser - the Chief State Pathologist and Dr Jonathan Gluckman that your story could not possibly be true, because the contracoup injury on Mr Biko's would have lead to immediate unconsciousness as if it were a knock-out blow delivered by a heavy-weight boxer.	Do you recall that?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, I cannot answer at this stage, but I can say that as we have stated, the way in which the head bumped against the wall, did in fact knock him out for a while, but he was not entirely unconscious.

GEORGE BIZOS: In Pretoria, your evidence and your colleagues'
evidence were shown to be false, because you said that Biko fell;  that is where he must have got his injury above his left eye, but despite that, he continued to fight with strength and determination that not even four security policemen could bring him under control.
	Now, the convenient stage that you and your colleagues have changed the story to, was that he appeared to be confused, a sort of halfway stage to unconsciousness in order to make your story fit at least in part the medical evidence given by such eminent medical people.
	Isn't that the reason that you now changed your story, because you knew that unless you admitted at least in part, that portion, the medical evidence would again show that your evidence was false.
	Have you got anything to say about what I'm putting to you?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, what I have said in my application now, are the true facts.

GEORGE BIZOS: What I am asking you is that;  were you not when making up this alternative story aware that you had to say something that fitted the medical evidence, at least in part?

MR SNYMAN: No, your Honour, that is not the case.

GEORGE BIZOS: My learned friend, Mr Mpshuwulana, that's sitting next to me, has drawn my attention that in his affidavit Mr Beneke who's also sitting at that table as far as I know - I am told that he is, he says in his affidavit
"I noticed that there was a bruise over his left eye and that his lip had some blood on it and was slightly swollen."
Any reason why you could not see what Mr Beneke has reported as having seen?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, on my observation, I did not notice it.

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you recall whether in your evidence in Pretoria you said that you saw that Mr Biko hit his head against the wall?

MR SNYMAN: That is possible, your Honour, but I cannot after all of these years, recall.

GEORGE BIZOS: Well, let me assure you that you did not say it, nor did you say it in your statement and my senior colleague, Mr Kentrich, put to you the contents of the affidavits of the other people who were in the interrogation room;  that none of them actually said that Mr Biko knocked his head against the wall.
	If those be the facts;  can you explain why you did not say, either in your statement or in your evidence that Mr Biko had knocked his head against the wall?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, I did say that that statement made for the judicial inquest, that that had not been founded on the actual truth.

GEORGE BIZOS: People lie in order to serve their purposes.  How would your purposes be served by not mentioning to Mr Biko knocking his head against the wall.

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, as we made our statements subsequent to the incident and under pressure, similarly we gave testimony in Pretoria ... (intervention).

GEORGE BIZOS: I think you must try and come to terms with my question, Sir.  Let me illustrate it, Sir.  Meaning, you gave a reason to my learned friend representing you why you lied about the date when the injuries were sustained. You said because a doctor was not called on the 6th as he should have been, but because of the 7th.  As reprehensible as it may be, we can understand why you want to tell that lie.
	Please explain to us what purpose would it have served to withhold that you had seen Mr Biko knocking his head against the wall?

MR SNYMAN: (No audible reply).

GEORGE BIZOS: Any answer to the question?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, in my current statement I did explain that the incident occurred on the 6th and at that time we were told that it happened on the 7th.

GEORGE BIZOS: But surely this false version was orchestrated in order to make it as non-culpable as possible?  Not so?

MR SNYMAN: That is possible.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is there no answer to my question?

MR SNYMAN: I said that that might have been the case.

GEORGE BIZOS: If that be so, what purpose would have been served by you withholding that you had seen Mr Biko striking his head against the wall?

MR SNYMAN: Your Honour, I did not keep this information silent.  In the entry in the occurrences book, it's clearly mentioned that he in fact bumped his head against the wall.

GEORGE BIZOS: Please repeat your answer.  Neither of us heard you.

MR SNYMAN: (Indistinct - microphone not switched on).

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, no, I am aware of that.  What I am asking you is whether or not the keeping away that fact from your statement and from your evidence, would have helped you to put together an exculpatory version?

MR SNYMAN: That is how we drafted our statements at that time and that is the testimony that we gave.

GEORGE BIZOS: Please tell me who was the conductor, so to speak, in this orchestrated act of perjury?  Who was the smart guy there who could make up stories best?

MR SNYMAN: No, your Honour, there wasn't any smart guy who fabricated it.  These facts as we have them in our statements now, are the actual facts ... (intervention).

GEORGE BIZOS: I'm sorry, I again have not heard your answer.  Please repeat it.

MR SNYMAN: The facts are as we have now stated them in our statements.  There has been no change of the facts in these statements ... (intervention).

GEORGE BIZOS: I'm going to appeal to you, Sir, to raise your voice.  I understand your Afrikaans.  I find it very difficult through this system to hear you and I would appeal to you to raise your voice.
	You asked many questions in your life.  Please raise your voice as if you were asking the questions.  What is the answer?  (Laughter/Applause).