Human Rights Violation Hearings — Middelburg — 1997-06-04

RUSSELL ALLY: Yes.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: They made all the arrangements.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.  I'll give you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin?

YASMINE SOOKA: You know, I'm just wondering this - do you think this, his killing was related to his trying to bring the gangs together?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Pardon.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you think that he was possibly, that possibly the reason he may have been killed, is because he tried to bring the gangs together rather than it being political?  I just wonder?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: No, I don't think so much it's because of bringing the gangs together.  Because of all the threatenings and the phone calls and the harassment of the police, following us on the road, pushing him off the road, it wasn't the gangsters.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you think the gang was just used?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: That's what I think.  I think they were used.

YASMINE SOOKA: So every time you went to court, you say that Godphrey would then - the people would say he was not fit to stand trial?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: So the matter would then be postponed again?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: And at what stage, how long after the matter started, did the proceedings sort of die out completely?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I don't know.  Maybe two, three years after the killing.

YASMINE SOOKA: And since then, nothing?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Since then nothing, yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you try to make enquiries of your own?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I did went once.

YASMINE SOOKA: And?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: And they just told me that Godphrey was not fit.

YASMINE SOOKA: And were you ever called when the magistrate said that this man is not fit to stand trial?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: No.

YASMINE SOOKA: And so he can't bring proceedings against him?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: No, before I could actually enter, I was just at the door to find out in which court or what;  they would tell me, no, Godphrey is sent back, because there won't be a trial.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you actually suspect that the police were behind his killing?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: I see.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I suspect that, in fact, he was also pretending to be mentally ill.  He wasn't mentally ill.

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Perhaps he was told to act like that, because when I saw him in the community, in Schoongesigt, he was well.

YASMINE SOOKA: Is he - you did mention that some of the witnesses have died in mysterious circumstances?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Now you mention that Godphrey himself is dead?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: How was he killed?  Was this in a gang war fare or ... (intervention).

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I just know that he was shot.

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I don't think it was in a gang war.

YASMINE SOOKA: I see.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Prof Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Liberty, just a few questions.  I'm sitting here listening it happened over a long period of time that you were harassed and threatened and then eventually eight years ago your husband was killed so cruelly.  How did you and your family cope with what happened to you?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: After Eric was killed, I went back to college again, because I wanted to complete my course.  The family were the only people that were helping me.

PROF MEIRING: How many children do you have?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: I have two children.

PROF MEIRING: One is called Liezel?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: One is called Liezel.

PROF MEIRING: And the other one?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Allistair.

PROF MEIRING: Allistair.  Liezel was the daughter that saw her father was being humiliated and threatened in the house that day?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Did she receive treatment afterwards?  You say that she was very, very anxious about what happened and she felt very bad.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Were you able to provide psychiatric help for her or counselling for her?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: The counselling we got after he was killed.

PROF MEIRING: So the family, all of you, did receive counselling?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Pardon.

PROF MEIRING: Did the whole family receive counselling after this thing happened?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Myself and the children, yes.

PROF MEIRING: That's good.

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: For a few times, but until now my son, last year he had to get again some treatment.  Because up till now he can't really get to terms with it.  He becomes very angry and very aggressive when he talks about his father.

PROF MEIRING: I can imagine that.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Liberty, you say you taught Godphrey.  What was his age at the time of your husband's death, more or less?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Eighteen, 19.

CHAIRPERSON: Eighty nine was the date of ... (intervention).

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Eighteen or 19.

CHAIRPERSON: Eighteen or 19.  So he was a youngster?

FLORENCE B LIBERTY: Yes.