Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-10-12

CHAIRPERSON: What has been saying to us now in response to Mr Richard's question are applicable to both those establishments, Magoo's and ...(intervention)

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: They are applicable to both, yes.

MR RICHARD: In fact in what criteria would you choose which side to go once you walked in the entrance?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Depending on how you're feeling at the time, Magoo's was always very packed, generally very packed.  Sometimes you'd want to squeeze through the people and get into the bar at Magoo's, sometimes you felt it's not worth the hassle, turn left and go into the Why Not bar and get a beer faster than you could of if you turned right into the Magoo's bar.

MR RICHARD: Now did you know anything of who occupied the hotel rooms on other floors of the building?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Not to my knowledge.

MR RICHARD: Now let's talk about the age groups of the patrons, was there any difference in the age grouping of people who would go into either one or other side?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I think the younger age group tended to go right or to Magoo's.  Well it's hard to say, both sides but as again, if Magoo's had filled up before anyone could get there then we'd turn left and went into the Why Not bar.

MR RICHARD: Now what was the general age grouping of the people who congregated in the Parade Hotel?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I'd say 18 to mid 30's.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  Now on a Friday night what would the attendance at the hotel be?  Busy or quiet?

CHAIRPERSON: Was the 14th June a Saturday night?  Why are we therefore interested in Friday nights Mr Richard?

MR RICHARD: On a weekend night.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Generally at that time it was well patronaged on Friday and Saturday night and Saturday afternoon as well.

MR RICHARD: Now when you came from where you lived to the hotel how would you normally travel, would you come by car, bus or walk?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well on that particular night I was staying nearby and I walked, walked at the back of the Edward Hotel up left into the Why Not bar.

MR RICHARD: And what was the condition of the traffic in the Marine Parade?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Marine Parade at that time was generally always busy.

MR RICHARD: What time would that have been Mr Jeffers, when you walked there?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Plus minus 9 o'clock.

MR RICHARD: Indeed if you had a choice between walking and talking a car which would you prefer?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: It depends where I was living at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: It depends, he wouldn't walk in kilometres if he lived around the corner he'd walk.

MR RICHARD: Was parking a problem?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Parking was basically a problem, yes.

MR RICHARD: Now if on a Saturday night between eight and half past nine you walked up to the hotel, what would you see, would you see evidence of it being active or quiet?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In the vicinity?

MR RICHARD: Yes.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In the area in the Marine Parade?  There was always people walking all over the place and cars up and down.

MR RICHARD: Would there be other pedestrians around?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes.

MR RICHARD: And on the night in question, that's the Saturday 14 June 1986?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes there were people around and traffic.

MR RICHARD: Now how full was it that night when you arrived?

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps you could be a bit more specific, if you deal with a particular bar you're dealing with Garfunkel's as well and the hotel rooms.

MR RICHARD: Mr Jeffers, what time did you arrive that night?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Plus minus 9 o'clock and I'd say it's about 18 percent full as far as I can recollect.

MR RICHARD: And were you people that you knew then inside.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes.

MR RICHARD: Now what did you to do once you entered, what bar did you go into?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I went into the Why Not Bar.

MR RICHARD: Why did you choose that bar?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Because generally that bar was the easiest place to get service quicker, the bar lay out, it was easier to get a beer.

MR RICHARD: Now after you entered the Why Not section how long were you there?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I was there until the explosion.

MR RICHARD: How long was that about?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Plus minus 40 minutes as far as I can remember.

MR RICHARD: Now during that 40 minutes do you remember what you were doing, who you were talking to?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: The last thing I remember was holding a beer and speaking to a friend of mine, David Fletcher and then all I felt was a force, then the lights went out and I went over.

MR RICHARD: Were you injured?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes.

MR RICHARD: What were your injuries?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: My face was - I had injuries from glass to my face, chest and arms and I had to have an operation on my hand here as well.

MR RICHARD: Now were there any people in uniform in the pub that night?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Not that I recall.

MR RICHARD: Did you go into Magoo's section that evening?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I don't think I had the chance to.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RICHARD

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Richard.  Mr Berger, do you have any questions you would like to put to Mr Jeffers?

MR BERGER: A few questions, Chairperson.
	Mr Jeffers, you say that you lived in Durban since 1980.  Where did you live before that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I spent plus minus 9 years in Australia but prior to that from the 60's our family moved to Durban in 1961 for the second time.

MR BERGER: From where?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: From England.

MR BERGER: And then you left South Africa when?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: In 1970.

MR BERGER: Why was that?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I left South Africa to go surfing.

MR BERGER: In Australia?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes and not to do my military training.

MR BERGER: So you were opposed to serving in the South African Military.

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I preferred surfing as doing military training, yes.

MR BERGER: Well I'm sure most people would but my question was more pointed than that.  Did you leave South Africa for political reasons?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Well at the time I was about 18 years of age so it's hard for me to say at the time I was a political objector but now I think down the line we didn't want - none of our family, there was five boys in my family, none of us really wanted to do military training for some reason or the other.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Jeffers, did you say you originally came from England?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: Yes Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you a South African citizen, were you liable for conscription?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: At that time yes.

MR BERGER: So would it be correct to say that you left South Africa to avoid military service?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Because you were opposed to serving in the South African Military?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I can't question at this - well at that time I wasn't sure because none of my friends that I grew up with ever wanted to go to the army.

MR BERGER: Would it be correct to say that you opposed apartheid and that was the reason you didn't want to serve in the military?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I've never agreed with apartheid.

MR BERGER: No?  Would it be correct to say that at that time you opposed apartheid and that was why you didn't want to serve in the military?

JONATHAN JOSEPH JEFFERS: I can't - see I was 18 years of age at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes can I just ask the audience please to be tolerant and give the witness a chance?