Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietersburg — 1996-07-18

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: (sworn states)

MR MALAN: Mrs Tlhathla, you gave us a statement of an incident where you were assaulted around about 1979.  If you will please tell us, at the time you were residing at Chipane in Hamatla village.  Please tell us what happened on that occasion.

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: We were sitting and just saw people coming to fetch our donkeys.  After that people came.

MR MALAN: But tell us exactly what happened please.

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: What happened is that when were sitting we just saw a group of people coming. I was in the field with my animals, with the cows under a tree.  While I was sitting there relaxing and the cows were grazing, I just saw something like a car, and when I looked at it I saw a group of people.  I stood up and they said to me I must just stand still.  After that I was very frightened and they said I mustn't mope.  They came to me and asked me for papers.  I asked what papers and they said they wanted papers of settlement.  I told them I didn't have those papers and they asked me why I didn't and why I was there when I didn't have such papers.  I told them it's because I didn't have money at the time, and they started beating me.
 I started to run away, I tried to but they beat me and others were screaming at me and shouting.  They beat me again and I ran away.  I ran to the field and I never came back.  At the same time the houses were burned.

MR MALAN: Do you know who these people were?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I don't know them.

MR MALAN: Do you know on whose behalf they came there?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I don't know who sent those people.

MR MALAN: Did they represent the chief at the time?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: The car which they were driving was the Matlhathla lorry from the chief's place.

MR MALAN: Did they ask only for papers or did they ask for dues, for money?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: Yes they told me to go to the settlement.  They asked me why I was staying there.

MR MALAN: Where had you been staying when this happened?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: They beat us in those years and I was still staying there.

MR MALAN: Or did you come from another area?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I was from Mathlethong.  They removed us from Mathlethong.  Those people who burned our houses when we ran away at the time, they were the same people.

MR MALAN: Are you staying at Chipane?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: Yes now I'm staying at Chipane.

MR MALAN: You talk in your statement in the last paragraph about the feud that led to the death of many people in Hamathla and others lost property.  Can you tell us a little about the feud, what is this feud?  A feud between whom and whom?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I don't know between which groups of people it was.

MR MALAN: ...(indistinct)

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: No there was nothing like that.

MR MALAN: Mrs Tlhathla you say that many people died, can you give us an idea as to how many people we're speaking about and when was this?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I don't know how to read and if I remember well, I think this happened in the '80s and I don't know exactly when because I don't know how to read and to count.  I cannot tell the number.

MR MALAN: But what did you personally lose. In your statement you do say that you were attacked, but you also lost things.  What did you personally lose as a result of what was happening in this period?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: My houses were burned down. All of them.

MR MALAN: Your family members, were they also affected? Did anything happen to relatives, to members of your family?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: Yes my mother in law's family and my father's brother also lost property.

MR MALAN: Was it just property, houses and cattle which they lost?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: All the furniture in the house was burned out.

MR MALAN: Were you aware of anything political that was taking place. Do you think that this was because people belonged to different political organisations, are you aware of anything like that going on?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I don't understand you.

MR MALAN: The question says, do you think there was a conflict between the chiefs in your village at the time?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: Are you saying they were ...(intervention)

MR MALAN: Were here conflicts between your chiefs at Hamathla at the time?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: ...(indistinct)

MR MALAN: What do you expect the Truth Commission to do for you by way of assistance or reparation?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: What happened to me, I'd just like the Commission to help me where it can.

MR MALAN: But why it happened, is that your real concern, or is it to help you with your life?
 Should I repeat the question, the question is, would you like the Truth Commission to help you really find out what really happened and why it happened or do you actually want the Commission to help you with assistance with your house or with anything to help you along in your life?
 You have come to the Truth Commission to tell us your story and we do appreciate that very much.  The question now remains, what can the Truth Commission do for you?  Would you like us to find out more what happened, do you need information on the event and why it happened or would you rather like some assistance from the Commission?

MAPUTI TLHATHLA: I would like the Commission to help me build a house.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you very much for letting us hear about the things which happened to you.  We don't yet understand exactly what happened in your village as you're saying that you don't know.  Actually it's going to be very difficult for us to know where to help you.  Again we would like to thank you for coming forward to tell us.  We'd like to know more so that we can help you.  Truly all this happened a long time ago and many people don't remember well the cause of all those things but we do thank you very much for coming forward.