Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-26

ANDILE JACK: He reversed the car from the stop sign and stopped and then he went straight, he proceeded to a spot under the trees because he wanted to go to the people who were calling him.

MR JAMIE: Okay, did he have his lights on?

ANDILE JACK: Yes the lights were on.

MR JAMIE: What could you see as he drove under the trees, could you see anything?

ANDILE JACK: I saw people standing and then he rolled down the window trying to talk to those people.

MR JAMIE: Pro rolled down the window to talk to them?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.

MR JAMIE: How many people could you see?

ANDILE JACK: I saw three people.

MR JAMIE: Could you describe them?

ANDILE JACK: I cannot describe them because I did not see their faces because it was misty on that day.

MR JAMIE: It was misty, was there any other reason why you could not see their faces?

ANDILE JACK: They were wearing some things like balaclavas when I saw them.

MR JAMIE: And those were covering their faces?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.

MR JAMIE: What then happened after Pro rolled down the window?

ANDILE JACK: They just turned and shot at us, they never uttered a thing.

MR JAMIE: They didn't say a thing, they just shot?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.

MR JAMIE: What happened to you?

ANDILE JACK: When he saw the firearm he pushed me.

MR JAMIE: Are you talking about Pro now?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.

MR JAMIE: When he saw the firearm he pushed you, where did he push you?

ANDILE JACK: He pushed me under the dashboard.

MR JAMIE: And what then happened?

ANDILE JACK: I got under the dashboard and the firing started.

MR JAMIE: Do you know how many shots there were?

ANDILE JACK: No I do not know but the shooting took some time.

MR JAMIE: How did you feel or sorry, not how did you feel, what did you think was going to happen to you there?

ANDILE JACK: Will you please repeat the question, sir?

MR JAMIE: What did you think was going to happen to you when the firing began?

ANDILE JACK: I thought they were going to talk to him first.

MR JAMIE: Do you remember for how long the shooting went on?

ANDILE JACK: It could have been ten to twenty minutes, I'm not sure.

MR JAMIE: When the shooting stopped, what did you do?

ANDILE JACK: He pushed me under the dashboard.

MR JAMIE: When the shooting stopped, what did you do?

ANDILE JACK: I also tried to push myself under, I also tried to get under the dashboard.

MR JAMIE: Sorry, I'm talking about when the shooting stopped.  What did you do?

ANDILE JACK: As they were pointing the firearm at us that is when he pushed me under the dashboard.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jack, after the all that, after the shooting stopped, what did you do, did you run home, what did you do?  Did you stay in the car, did you get out, did you run home, did you go tell your mother, what did you do?

ANDILE JACK: I opened the door and I got out of the car and I ran to my home.

MR JAMIE: And did you tell them what had happened?

ANDILE JACK: When I got into the house they enquired, they wanted to know what was happening and I told them that we were being shot at and they wanted to know if he was still alive and I told them that he was alive.  I was a bit unconscious, I was a bit confused.

MR JAMIE: So you were a bit confused.  Were you injured?  Had you been hurt?

ANDILE JACK: Yes I was injured.

MR JAMIE: Where and how were you injured?

ANDILE JACK: My chest.

MR JAMIE: In your chest, yes, and anywhere else?

ANDILE JACK: I had wounds, I had sustained some wounds at my back.

MR JAMIE: Your back as well?  Did you go back to the scene that evening?

ANDILE JACK: Yes I went back with the other people to show them where the incident took place.

MR JAMIE: And what did you see when you got back?

ANDILE JACK: I found out he was dead.

MR JAMIE: Was his body still in the car?

ANDILE JACK: Yes his body was still in the car.

MR JAMIE: Were you taken to hospital that evening?

ANDILE JACK: Yes I was taken to hospital.

MR JAMIE: And how long were you kept in hospital?

ANDILE JACK: I think it was plus minus two hours.

MR JAMIE: So you were discharged the same evening?

ANDILE JACK: Yes I was discharged.

MR JAMIE: What standard were you in at school at that time, at the time of the incident?

ANDILE JACK: I think I was doing standard four.

MR JAMIE: How did this incident affect you if at all?

ANDILE JACK: I couldn't perform well even at school, I would still feel like I was hearing this firing in my ears all the time.

MR JAMIE: Besides school, did it affect you in any other way?

ANDILE JACK: I couldn't be heard thereafter because I thought that some people would come again and try to shoot me.

MR JAMIE: You were scared, is that correct?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct, I was scared.

MR JAMIE: Did you still take the same interest in things that you did before?

ANDILE JACK: My life changed and it was completely different from before.

MR JAMIE: Did you continue going to school and was it the same as before?

ANDILE JACK: My life changed because even during the half year exams I did not perform well and even with the final exams I did not perform very well.

MR JAMIE: Are you still at school?

ANDILE JACK: Yes, yes I was.

MR JAMIE: Yes but are you still at school now?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct, I'm still at school.

MR JAMIE: What standard are you in?

ANDILE JACK: I'm enrolled at a certain technical college.

MR JAMIE: So you eventually left school, is that correct?

ANDILE JACK: I am at a technikon at the moment.

MR JAMIE: Did you ever receive counselling or any other medical or other assistance after this incident?

ANDILE JACK: No.

MR JAMIE: Thank you Mr Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JAMIE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Jamie.  Mr Riley have you any questions?

MR RILEY: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Now Mr Jack at the time that this incident occurred were you fourteen years old?  Fourteen, fifteen years old?

ANDILE JACK: I think I was fourteen years old.  I cannot remember very well but I think I was fourteen years old.

MR RILEY: And it appears from what you say to us today that the deceased, you were very attached to the deceased, he was probably more like a father to you?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.  He was prepared to educate me and do everything for me like a father.

MR RILEY: Now you said to us that - let me just actually find out from you, after the incident had occurred, you went back to the scene, is that right?  Did you there speak to any police officers and tell them what had occurred?

ANDILE JACK: Yes that is correct.

MR RILEY: So you did make a report to the police after the incident?

ANDILE JACK: I never reported the matter to the police.

MR RILEY: I'm sorry, I did understand you to say just before this that you did in fact go back to the scene and tell the police about the incident?

ANDILE JACK: The police were not at the scene.

MR RILEY: Did they not arrive on the scene and did you not tell them what had happened before you went to the hospital?

ANDILE JACK: Before going to the hospital the police came and enquired and I told them that he was shot.

MR RILEY: Now do you recall what you said to them?

ANDILE JACK: I told them that we were shot, that's all.

MR RILEY: Is that all you said, you didn't say by whom or how?

ANDILE JACK: No, I did not mention that because I didn't even know the people who did that.

MR RILEY: Did you in fact at a later stage after you were discharged from the hospital, did you make a statement, a written statement to the police, did they come and take a statement from you about what had happened?

ANDILE JACK: After coming out of the hospital the police came to my home.

MR RILEY: And did they take a statement from you about what had happened?

ANDILE JACK: I told them that the people who called my uncle's name and after that they shot at him.  I cannot remember more about the details that were in the statement.