Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

ROBERT KOHL: There were no disruptions, what happened there, we proceeded to the funeral, from the funeral to the graveyard and back and there was not even a caspar that moved about in the area there.  It was only about seven that a caspar moved along the main road in the coloured area, that's all. But there were no sort of disturbances that prevented the people from coming or going.

MR SANDI: What was the effect of tragic death of Bully in your community?

ROBERT KOHL: Well everybody was sort of, we felt that this sort of incident had never happened in that area, how come this incident happened there, people asked me, in Afrikaans,"What happened to him, why did it happen?" It really touched me that people talked like that to me and said, I feel with you, My condolences with you and with all the family, so the people in that area, I knew them very well and they knew me very well, so it was a family sort of a thing, actually, especially from our side and from the other side of the township.

MR SANDI: Are you saying the death of Bully had the effect of bringing the two communities much closer together than before?

ROBERT KOHL: That's true.  Even some of my friends from the white areas were there at the funeral and it was a sort of atmosphere it was a whole family meeting together to pay their last respect to my son.

MR SANDI: Is there anything else you would like to say Mr Kohl about this matter?

ROBERT KOHL: The thing is, it's very difficult for me, when it EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
15 ROBERT KOHL
happened I didn't feel anything.

MR SANDI: Mr Chairman that's all I've got to ask the witness to testify, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ntsiki.  Any other questions?

WENDY ORR: Mr Kohl, I know that nothing can bring your son back, but what do you believe  the Commission should do for your family or for a family like yours who have lost sons in the struggle?

ROBERT KOHL: The thing is it's very difficult to answer your question, but very simply that, it happened to me, and you don't know the time, the place or when it's going to happen, so if you are prepared then you must, as a family stay together. if that's happened to you you must stay as a family together and I ask the Commission, I know the person now but he's dead, but to go into this matter and to see that everybody is treated in a right manner.  Each case that has come up today, yesterday and the day before, as these people said. a sort of remembrance of some sort.  There is a remembrance in Grahamstown, at Mary Waters on the 12th of May they usually have a day off when they go and visit the grave and have wreaths put on and have speeches there. So we have a day in Grahamstown that remembers this occasion, it happened there.
 But there are other people in Grahamstown that have gone through this same sort of situation, I ask the people on the Commission to investigate those cases too, there are other cases there that people haven't brought forth. there was a little girl that was also killed on the same day, she was just 14 years old, she was also shot dead on the same day, and I don't see that family here, I didn't hear a report of this family here.  But these are things that we 
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
16 ROBERT KOHL
have to look at, bring them to the Commission and the Commission can sort it out and give us a sort of a guide line and help us in our situation.

DR BORAINE: Mr Kohl who telephoned you to tell you about your son's death?

ROBERT KOHL: Mr Austin sitting next to me, he was with my son and they were schooling together at Mary Waters, they served on the same committee, the students council and on the
Grahamstown Youth Movement.

DR BORAINE: And you received a report from him, what happened that day?

ROBERT KOHL: Ja he gave me a short report on what happened.  I was confused and you can't listen to a report at that time, you're just concerned about your son, what happened to him and so forth.

DR BORAINE: Of course I understand, would you like Mr Austin to give testimony now in support of your witness?

ROBERT KOHL: I would very much like that Dcotor.

DR BORAINE: Could I ask you Mr Austin, are you willing to speak on behalf of this case.  Then I will have to ask you to be sworn in, so would you please stand?

TYRONE AUSTIN: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: Mr Tyron Austin, that is your name?

TYRONE AUSTIN: Yes Sir.

DR BORAINE: You were there when it all happened.

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Austin, the testimony before the Commission is that you were there when it happened. Can you try and give the Commission as full a picture as possible what happened and in particular how Bully was killed and by whom?

TYRONE AUSTIN: Well Sir just to come back to your question
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
17 T AUSTIN
in terms of what Mr Kohl said what happened at the police station, I wasn't there when they went to the police station the first time, but I can just relate what happened at the stadium in terms of the joyous mood that the police were in that day.  Firstly while the funeral proceedings were on at the stadium, you could see hippos parked all round the stadium and you could see the tops of the hippos where the policemen were sitting on top of the hippos throwing beer cans on to the crowd.  Stones on to the crowd and really the marshals had to handle the crowd not to retaliate in terms of that.
 Then after that the power supply to the stadium was cut off in terms of the P A System and the speakers eventually had to use the loud hailer to address the crowd.
 When the proceedings towards the cemetery took place, there was a delay in front and we later the police prevented the proceedings to continue in the planned route that was agreed upon, and the back of the proceedings moved in another direction and we ultimately heard that the police wanted the front of the group to move in the direction that the back of the group was moving towards.  We didn't even move for about...(intervention)

MR SANDI: Did you say there a direction that was initially agreed upon?  A route, you mean a route that was going to be followed from the stadium to the graveyard?