Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I would like to explain or to add Sir, I will appeal to the members of the Commission to understand the prevailing circumstances during those years in our country.  I will request them to use their own discretion if these people who were called Blacks were oppressed during those times what was their expectations concerning those people if those people had bad feelings I will explain to the Commission that it was okay about what has happened.  But if they were supposed to be positive according to the situations because they were so under oppression, but if they were supposed to feel wrongly - I will request the Committee because use their own discretion.
	Another thing I would like to say concerning this amnesty if I am being pressed on my toes by somebody who regards himself as White I don't want to consider that as a mistake and told him that I could realise that your feet is on top of mine, no that is not a mistake at all.  What I am trying to explain here is that this person has pressed me on my toes so I need to explain to him will you please remove your foot from my toes.  I will quote in English Sir if you allow me:
"Where there is suppression and oppression there will always be resistance.  Where there is an action there is a reaction.  And where there is reaction there is resistance".
But not in this case which are appealing in our country and those people who claim as bosses they do whatever they want to do with us.  
	Ladies and gentlemen apartheid is a sin and it's wrong in such a way that we cannot compare it with anything in the world.  If it wasn't wrong it was not supposed to be approved.  It was supposed to be here today.  What I am trying because explain our history told us that in 1973 the United Nations made a special committee against apartheid isolating the apartheid which was prevailing in South Africa in 1973.  The history told us that there was a United Nations International Convention on the suppression and the punishment of apartheid, it was called crime against humanity, that is crime.  That is why they have scrapped apartheid.  They appealed to us that we must forgive them about what they have done.  This has happened for so many years, I am not talking about 18 or three years time in this case.  
	What I would like to explain because you is that we are the ones who have felt the pains and we know it exactly.  For example, gentlemen, we have been staying in Because and you know the houses, even the toilets just go to Because, even here in Manaung where Black people are being situated, you will see hunger, those people are very hungry, just enter here around us in this area, there is prosperity Sir, there is life in those areas.  It means that - there are so many bicycles, tricycles and the motor cars but in the area where I am staying I can't see a single bicycle, I can say it's very rarely.  The only thing that you can see on our streets is that a wheelbarrow.  Maybe it's the issue of our colour being black we are always carrying these five litres of paint just to paint our own people.
	Honourable members we were not being oppressed by mistake, this was a real purpose.  Mr Verwoerd is the architect of apartheid.  This has been planned, it's not a mistake to our Black people in this country.  This was intentional.  If you have to react they say you are wrong.  According to the laws which represented them perhaps the issue is that we were Blacks.  Even in front of court that is wrong.  I can't remember where in the Bible, I can't even remember comrades, that God have explained that people, especially the Black people should be oppressed.  All this has been done intentionally, we are the victims of apartheid. ...(intervention)

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi won't you sum up Sir.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am here to explain what happened.

MR MTHEMBU: Yes but you have explained your participation for the offence that you are applying for amnesty for.  The Committee has heard how you feel or felt about apartheid then.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I would explain to you Sir is that for the benefit of reconciliation in South Africa I would request even to the family of Mr Smith that I say from the depth of my heart, I would request them to forgive me.  Let us forget what has happened in the past.  But when I say to them they must forgive me they must not understand me wrongly that there was no apartheid in South Africa.  They must not mistake my information that our people were oppressed. For the benefit of peace and reconciliation I ask them to forgive me.
	I would ask the Commission again, please consider forgiving me.  I want because make a contribution to South Africa which I fought for.  Please consider forgiving me.

MR MTHEMBU: And that's your case, your application Sir.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: ...(intervention)

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Mohapi we could sit here and listen to you the whole day Sir.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am responding Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: That is your application?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Yes that is my application.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MTHEMBU

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mohapi do you agree with me that in your application the formal form that you completed from the TRC office, including your annexure to the application consisting of seven pages, nowhere do you mention how this offence was committed, not even a single word about the offence itself, do you agree?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Okay.  I fully agree with you Sir and I will explain why, if you request me to do so Sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes I want your explanation.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: If you refer us to page 29A1 to 3, are you referring to that page, page 2?

SISI KHAMPEPE: You are now at page 2 and you want to find out if Mr Mpshe is asking you about paragraph 9A and Roman figure I, II, III up to IV?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Yes.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I am not yet there.  I am saying to you the whole application, your annexure consisting of seven handwritten pages there is nothing said about the offence itself as you explained in such details today, nothing has been said in your application, do you agree?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Can you explain that Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that is very simple.  Nowhere in your application does it say what exactly you did when you committed the offence, that's all.

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: That is true Sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Right.  And as a, that's my opinion, as a learned applicant, you knew very well that in an application for amnesty full disclosure is one of the requirements?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I will request you not to mention me as learned, I am not learned.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: How are you?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am still in that process to learn myself.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: To learn yourself?  You say you are in the process to learn yourself?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: I am in the process to learn.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now when you filled in the application form did you know what is required in order to be granted amnesty?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I know shortly, yes I knew that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And you knew at that time that full disclosure is one of the requirements for you to be granted amnesty?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: During that time Sir this issue of full disclosure I didn't know anything about it.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Alright let us - just answer my question.  Let us go back, what is it that which you knew should be satisfied to get amnesty?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: What I knew is that as we have this amnesty Commission I am supposed to reveal the truth about what has happened.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That's it.  To reveal the truth about what has happened and this has to be in your application form, not so?

PETRUS TAPELO MOHAPI: Yes Sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now is this in your application form what has happened, the truth?