Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-04

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I went to Skaweni, first I went to see Mbusa Mbambo, I told him about the phone call.   We then both decided to go and see Mrs Mbuyazi personally.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell the committee, Mr Romeo Mbambo, where did he fit in.   You were a member of the hit squad, was he also a member?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Romeo Mbambo, together with Israel Shlongwano Delimkese, they were operating on the north coast, we were on the south coast region, and they were on the north coast region.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Right.   Was he also a member of the IFP hit squad?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Yes, that's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Okay.   You testified that yourself and Mr Mbambo went to Mrs Mbuyazi, is that correct?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell us about the visit that you paid to Mrs Mbuyazi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: We told Mrs Mbuyazi and then she decided that I wasn't going to go back to Durban, and we were supposed to go and take over Sipiwe - which was - the thing that was supposed to be Sipiwe's mission of killing Mr Thalede.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose again, Mr Oosthuizen?   Did you on your own decide that you wouldn't go back to Durban, but would proceed to attend to the Thalede issue?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And what was the instruction from Mr Mbuyazi, when should you complete this uncompleted mission?

CHAIRPERSON: Where is that evidence, Mr Oosthuizen?   Are you not leading him?   We don't have the evidence that there was any instructions from Mr - and it's Mrs Mbuyazi - to him, that's why I was asking him whether he himself decided to go to Bushbuck Ridge on that Thalede issue.   We don't have any evidence that he was ever given any instructions by Mrs Mbuyazi.   You are asking a leading question.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Chair, if I might just to respond?  According, or how I understood it is that the applicant himself and Mr Mbambo went to Mrs Mbuyazi and she herself instructed them to complete the mission that was not completed at that stage.

CHAIRPERSON: That's not what I have and that's not what I heard.   I think clear that up.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Madam Chair, I will do that.   Mr Ngxongo, what exactly were you told by Mrs Mbuyazi when you and Mr Mbambo visited her?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: After we've told Mrs Mbuyazi about the report which we've got from Mr Makwena, she said we were supposed to go to Bushbuck Ridge on Friday so that we are there on Saturday.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And at what day of the week did you got this instructions from Mrs Mbuyazi?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Do you want to know the time... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: No... (intervention).

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: ...or the day?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: ...I just want to know the day.   You said you got instructions to leave for Mpumalanga the Friday, on what day, was it the previous day, was it two days before  you left, when was your instructions from Mrs Mbuyazi to leave for Nelspruit?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: The same Friday, immediately after we've reported this matter to her, she told us to leave on that very same Friday.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you.   Are you aware of any previous unsuccessful trips that was undertook by Mr Romeo Mbambo and other hit squad members?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.    They came here for the first time, it was the three of them, and then the second time they were unsuccessful, and then when they were supposed to go for the third time, that's when Sipiwe was killed.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Okay.   You testified that you arrived in Nelspruit the Saturday, is that correct?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I clear something which is not... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: No, certainly, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ...clear in my mind, in terms of the towns that have been deposed to?   Is your evidence to the effect that after you reported to Mrs Mbuyazi about the conversation, the telephone conversation you had had with Mr Makwena, did she then instruct you to come to Nelspruit or to Bushbuck Ridge?    I've got here on my note that you were then instructed that you must go to Bushbuck Ridge on Saturday.   Is that what you said?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I would like you to clarify one thing for me.  We were told to come to Nelspruit to meet Mr Makwena in Ganyamazane Township.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were not instructed to go to Bushbuck Ridge?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you say so before?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That was a mistake.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And you arrived here the Saturday morning?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: That's correct.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Where did you met up with Mr Willie Makwena?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: In Ganyamaza..., just in front of the police station in Ganyamazane Township.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell the committee who made these arrangements that Mr Willie Makwena will meet you before or in front of the police station in Ganyamazane?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: After we've spoken with Mrs Mbuyazi, she went inside the house and she made a telephone call, I think she was calling Mr Makwena, and then when she came back, she told us we must go, we will meet Mr Makwena and what car he'll be driving and the police where to meet Mr Makwena.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: From the time that you met Mr Willie Makwena at the police station, what happened then, tell us from there?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: He arrived and he was driving similar car to the one we were driving.   We greeted each other and he said he was happy since he's known me from the telephone, over the phone, and then he said we must follow him and he was going to provide us with accommodation, so that we rest, since we were driving the whole night.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Just before you continue, can you tell us the numberplates of your vehicle, was that the original numberplates or was it false?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: After I've passed Macheladorp, I parked the car aside, at the side of the road, and I put a false registration and I put computer numbers registration on the car.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: You testified that you drove with Mr Willie Makwena to his house.   What happened there?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: We were following him, he was also driving his own car, we were following him.   We went to his place.   His house is at his business area, where you can find his hotels and his house on the same premises.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose, Mr Oosthuizen, for purposes of the record?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Excuse me, Madam Chair?

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose... (intervention).

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: ...and just clear a few things before he proceeds?

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Certainly.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it your evidence that you got to Nelspruit and you had arranged to meet Mr Makwena just outside the police station at Ganyamazane, and that's where you first met him, outside the police station on Saturday morning?   You then proceeded from that place outside the police station to his hotel, is that how I understand your evidence?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: I didn't make those arrangements.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I'm aware of that, but that's where you met him?    Yes, you first went to Ganyamazane Police Station and that's where you met and he was in his kombi.   You then drove in both kombis to his other place or hotel somewhere?    Okay.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Can you tell us where this hotel is situated?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: In Bushbuck Ridge.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Were you introduced to anyone else at the hotel?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: A guy came and was introduced to us as Willie's brother.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: Is his name familiar to you?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: David Makwena.

MR OOSTHUIZEN: And what did David do that evening, what was his duty?

MONDLI WISEMAN NGXONGO: Late in the evening, he was told by Mr Willie that he must go and check if Mr Thalede was still in his business earlier, or in his business premises.