Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-02-01

MR MALAN: Sorry, was it during the day or the night?  What was the light condition at that point?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: It was during the night.
"After that I went to these other people without getting closer to him and then they asked me if I did hit him.  I said, 'Yes, there was no reason for you to go to him, I am sure that I managed to hit him'.  They never asked any questions.  I instructed them to leave with me.
	As this was happening I was not aware of the instructions that they were given concerning this issue.  I'm not sure whether they were told to arrests him or they were also told to kill him because when I was given my instruction I was all alone, they were not there.
	We got into the car, we left for Umtata ..."
...(intervention)

JUDGE MILLER: Sorry, just before you proceed, Mr Gumengu, before you get onto another point.  Why didn't you go and check to see whether you had fatally shot Mr Zokwe?  You said that you were sure you hit him, but the fact that you shot at somebody and hit him doesn't necessarily mean you would kill him, and your instruction was to kill him.  So why didn't you walk up to where he had fallen to make sure what his condition was?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: The reason for me not to go there to inspect is because I was so confident that when I hit him it was on the head and with the distance where he was, with a 7.5 pistol he wouldn't survive and I was so sure that I hit him on the head.  There was no need for me to go back there and make sure that he was dead, or finish him out, but I was so confident that he was dead.

MR MALAN: How many shots did you fire on the deceased?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Only once.

MR MALAN: Right, you can continue.
MR GUMENGU
"We came back to Umtata and I joined our colleagues.  W/O Spambo told us to disperse because we couldn't get hold of Tami Moweli."

MR MALAN: Sorry, I must interrupt you Mr Gumengu.  In your affidavit in Afrikaans, page 16 you indicated that you have fired two shots and you are informing this Committee that it was only one, can you just clarify that for us please.

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, I can clarify that.  I pulled the trigger only once but I think and after getting the report, I thought that the rifle was on double-action because it is possible with this kind of pistol to fire at double-action, though you only pull the trigger once.  That is possible with this kind of a pistol.

MR MALAN: So there were indeed two shots fired, but you pulled the trigger once, do I understand you correctly?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is correct.

MR MALAN: Thank you, you can continue.
MR GUMENGU
"We left for Butterworth on that particular night after going to our places.  I never went to bed that night, I went to Capt Mfazwe to tell him about what had happened.  Capt Mfazwe was very pleased, he said that was what was supposed to happen and no-one should worry about anything because this mission was approved, no-one will face any problem."

MR MALAN: Were you at any stage issued with a warrant for his arrest through the normal channels of apprehending a person?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: No, I was told that I must not apprehend him, I should shoot to kill when I meet him.

MR MALAN: But wasn't it part of your instructions in the first instance, either to arrest him or to kill him if need be?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Please repeat the question, Sir.

MR MALAN: Was it not your instructions to either apprehend and arrest the person or if you cannot do that, then prefer to the killing of the deceased?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Initially that was the instruction at the time where there was this informer, Mfazwe's informer but after the attempts from his side to attack the office, the orders took a turn and I was told not to arrest him but to kill him straight away.

MR MALAN: Are you familiar with the term dynamite house, or place called dynamite house?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, I used to hear about such houses.

MR MALAN: On page 4 of the bundle that was given to me yesterday, the supplementary bundle, in the Supreme Court of the Transkei where you were in the criminal matter regarding this thing, there was a summary in terms of Section 149(3)(a) of Act 13/83, and in this summary it was suggested that you being one of the accused, took the deceased on this occasion to the so-called dynamite house where he was shot three times in his head and neck and where you left him for dead.  Can you confirm that?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I do not know the area and it was during the night and I told them to go to any place as long as it was outside of Umtata.  If the charge sheet mentions the fact that there were three bullets or whatever, as far as I'm concerned with this 7.65 I pulled the trigger only once, but when I heard later that the bullets that were found in his body were more than one, I was sure that since this was a pistol, the pistol had released more bullets though the trigger was pulled only once.  And I'm the only one who pulled a trigger there.  Even if they say any number of the bullets, I am accountable because I'm the one who actually pulled the trigger.

MR MALAN: Would you deny it if it was put to you at any stage that you indeed took the deceased to the dynamite house and shot him inside the dynamite house, may I call it mafia style, execution style?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: That was not how it happened, taking him to the house, that is not true, it happened the way I am explaining it here.

MR MALAN: Alright.  At a later stage you learnt ...(intervention)

JUDGE MILLER: This place where the shooting took place, was it not near the quarries?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I heard that in the newspaper and in the charge sheet, that it was next to a quarry, but it was very dark and I did not see and I do not know and I was not familiar with that vicinity.  But if they say that it was next to the quarry, I cannot dispute that, that is possible.

JUDGE MILLER: Yes, and one would imagine then that the dynamite house would mean the house where the dynamite that is used in the quarry to blow up the rocks would be kept - the dynamite house would be near the quarry.

PUMELELE GUMENGU: Yes, that is also possible, but I'm not familiar about that place.

MR MALAN: You subsequently learnt that Mr Zokwe survived this onslaught on his life, when did you learn that?

PUMELELE GUMENGU: I heard that.  I was called Capt Mfazwe coming from Umtata, saying that Mr Zokwe was in hospital.  His intentions to go to Umtata was to go there and report to the authorities, to tell them that the mission was accomplished but he got a shock when he heard that he was still alive and he was in Umtata hospital.  And the police of Umtata, they arrested him, he is in hospital but under police guard.  And I also got that information from the newspapers.