Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-11-18

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: On my arrest I discovered that there was such a relationship particularly with regards to the station commander of Mid Illovo.  When I was being questioned or when I was about to be interrogated he came with a certain ...(indistinct).  He asked me what organisation did I belong to, the ANC, and I denied that because I was afraid they might shoot me because they were armed.  I could even smell liquor on their breath.  I thought that was the day for me that I was going to be killed because even Mr Sepo Mkhize was killed in custody.  He cocked his firearm and pointed it, pressed it against my forehead.  He told me that I should be killed and I thought that was the end.  I started praying.  They then left me but they told me that the IFP is much better.  If you were an IFP member your case would go much better but we cannot ...(indistinct) the ANC in this area.  That is when I realised that there was a good relationship.  They even went to the extent of telling me that if I was an IFP member they would release me but because they suspect I'm an ANC member they would not.  That was when I realised that the station  commander and farmers and the people around that area were aligned to the IFP.

MR PANDAY: Mr Mkhize, previous to this incident did you know of any relationship between the IFP and the ANC?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: You mean prior to the commission of the crime?

MR PANDAY: Yes prior to the commission of the crime.

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: It was only after my incarceration that I heard that there were moves towards reconciliation between the two organisations.  I also heard that political prisoners should apply for amnesty.

MR PANDAY: Mr Mkhize, what did you hope to achieve at the time that you launched this attack on the people you report were attacking you?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: At the time it was to assist the community of Empangisa.  They had suffered so many attacks that more than a thousand people had fled the area.  That is why I felt I should protect the indigenous people of Empangisa who were not even protected or taken notice of by the protection services.  My objective then was to protect the community.

MR PANDAY: These people that should attack the community, who were these people?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Are you referring to their names?

MR PANDAY: Okay, did they belong to any political party?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: I would say some of them were aligned to a political organisation and some were supporters or sympathisers of that organisation.

MR PANDAY: Of which organisation?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: The IFP.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Mkhize, on the day that you acted is it correct to be assuming that your actions were as a result of protecting the community from attacks that may be launched against the community by the IFP?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR PANDAY: Now the ...(intervention)

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: I had no intention of attacking the police, they were not my targets.  I was just protecting the community on the realisation that the police themselves did not do anything.  People were slaughtered like cattle and no investigations would be carried out so I was protecting those people but I had no intention of attacking the police.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Mkhize, the weapon that you used what weapon was that, to fire the shots?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: It was an F1 hand grenade.

MR PANDAY: Was it an F1 hand grenade?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Yes.

MR PANDAY: And the firearm, the gun?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: It was a home made firearm that I had made myself.

MR PANDAY: And where did you obtain the hand grenade from?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: I will explain briefly.  After Mr Sepo Mkhize's death, his son Sibo gave the hand grenade to me and he said I should be on the lookout because after killing his father the same people would be after me.  Mr Mkhize had been taken by the police for interrogation and he was killed in their custody.  Sibo then gave the hand grenade to me for protection because his father had been killed by the police for establishing the ANC in the area.

MR PANDAY: And do you know where Sibo Mkhize obtained the hand grenade?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: No I do not have knowledge thereof but he did hand it over to me.

MR PANDAY: Now Mr Mkhize, were you found with any other weapons in your possession?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: I will explain.  After we suffered those attacks I managed to make or to be able to make firearms so I would manufacture those firearms.

ADV SANDI: The hand grenade, where did you get it?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: It's the same hand grenade as I obtained from Sibo Mkhize whose father had been killed.  After that incident we realised that we were also amongst the targets.

ADV SANDI: Did he tell you where he had obtained this hand grenade?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: No he did not.

ADV BOSMAN: Who taught you how to make firearms?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: My father bought me a pellet gun a pellet rifle, there was another person, a certain Mr Mgamo, whom I approached as to how I could alter my pellet firearm to make it into a home made rifle.  He showed me and that is how I learned because I was intelligent I could catch on quite quickly.

MR PANDAY: Mr Mkhize, where was this Mr Mgamo from?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Please repeat that question?

MR PANDAY: Where was the man who taught you how to make firearms, where was he from, which area?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Indwengo but I understand that he is now deceased.

MR PANDAY: And do you know if he made firearms for any other persons or political organisations?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: He would manufacture them to assist the people who were under attack because even in his area, the Indwengo area, there were ANC supporters who were under attack from the IFP and the IFP came from the Inyoni area so he would make those firearms to assist the people who were under attack.

MR PANDAY: Mr Mkhize, I'm going to refer you to a translation of your affidavit that you had drafted.
	Sorry Mr Chairperson, one for me to hand the affidavit to the applicant first?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes where's this in the bundle?

MR PANDAY: The affidavit is on page 24, it starts at page 24 and finishes on page 29 and the translation is from page 21 to 23 of that affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it just a typed version of it?  Okay.

MR PANDAY: Mr Mkhize, I'm going to show you an affidavit that was taken down and this is on pages 24 to 29.  Now the signature that appears at the end of the affidavit, can you confirm that that is your signature?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Yes it is mine.

MR PANDAY: And you confirm that you had - and who helped you write this affidavit?  The signature appears here where my finger is, is that your signature?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: Yes that is mine.

MR PANDAY: Who helped you draft this affidavit?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: An inmate at the Ingome Prison.

MR PANDAY: Okay, Mr Mkhize I'm now going to refer to a typed version of your affidavit that appears on page 22.  Page 22 is a typed version of your affidavit or the part I'm going to refer to you.  I will refer to paragraph 2.10 and in that paragraph you say in your hand written affidavit there
"As explained they were assisting Inkatha who were fighting us."
Now who was assisting the Inkatha when the Inkatha was fighting?

MANDLEKAHISE JOSESPH MKHIZE: It was people like Tando Kwasi and other people from that area like Masitela.  There were many of them but Tando Kwasi Mtembu, he was their commander.