bitter-aloe/trc-testimonies huggingface dataset:
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Balfour — 1997-05-23

DR RANDERA: Sipho, can I just ask a few questions please ?  First of all, this is on the side, has your brother come back from Tanzania, the one who ran away in 1976 ?

MR NHLAPO: What I've heard about him is that he is working within the ANC but he hasn't yet come back into this country.  I've heard from family members, that is, my relatives in Johannesburg but I do not know in which camp he is.  I know that he does visit his home but I haven't ever seen him.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay, can I take it then to 1986.  On that first of May when you were also arrested.  Just tell us what happened at the funeral of Abram Nguni ?  What was the behaviour of the police or was it the army that was present that day ?

MR NHLAPO: At that time what the organization did at that time disturbed me because when I looked at what was happening around me when I was growing up, my eyes filled with tears.  This person was sleeping but he had been shot and it was his right to be buried but the then Government called upon the police to come and refuse us permission to bury our Comrade.  Even his parents or his parent's rights were eroded because she could not exercise the right to bury her son.  We don't know where they buried him and that's what disturbs me even more because they smashed the corpse and took it with.

DR RANDERA: Sipho, you said earlier on that your brother's house was also burnt on that day but you were also arrested for burning houses on that day.  Is that right ?

MR NHLAPO: They said they were arresting me for having been present at the Comrade's funeral.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, I have no other questions.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sipho, thank  you very much.  You've given us a very long statement and very comprehensive.  You've also spoken for quite a while on your experiences, your torture.  You give the names of people who you say were involved in your torture, du Preez and others, de Bruyn rather sorry and du Preez.  We have written to these people, tried to trace them to let them know that these accusations have been made against them, which is what we do whenever people are named as alleged perpetrators.  We give them an opportunity to respond by sending letters to them.  As soon as we have any new information on your case we will certainly be in touch with you again.  Thanks very much for coming and giving your statement.

MR NHLAPO: What I wanted to say is this, I also want, I remember that I was working.  Maybe I was also part of the people who tortured members of the community because whenever a boycott was called by an organization I was also part of the people who intimidated  members of the community so that they stayed away from work but that was the political situation that prompted me to act in that fashion.  So I would like the community to forgive me for my past or previous criminal acts.  I would like to confess before this community, I am happy that I never killed anyone.  I thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Balfour — 1997-05-23

RUSSELL ALLY: It's very difficult to know what to day in a situation like this.  It was hard enough for you to lose your son in the way in which you did and then on top of that for  you and your family to be subjected to that treatment where your son's coffin is taken away and your son is buried at a place away from your home and  from the community.  We have heard your requests, your request for compensation.  We've also heard what you've said that members of the community have said that there should be some form of justice and that your son should be re-buried in Siyathemba.  Also that the body should be exhumed from where it's buried in Greylingstad and we will certainly look into those requests.  In the recommendations that we make, we will certainly take into account what you have said.  Once again thank you very much for coming to speak to us and to share your painful experience with us.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

ADV POTGIETER: Is there anything else that you'd like to ask from the Commission, or that  you'd like to tell us?

MR YABO: No.

ADV POTGIETER: Is that all you've wanted to tell us?

MR YABO: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Okay, thank you Mr Yabo. Thank you, any questions from the Commissioners, Mary Burton.

MARY BURTON: Mr Yabo, I would like to know whether you're receiving a disability grant?

MR YABO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other?  Sidney, we thank you for your presents here and we thank you - we thank you for coming to talk here and we sympathize with you and we also feel for you whiles walking down the street you had to be shot.  
We are going to try and hear from your lawyers as to - as to what happened to the - balance of the money.  As I said earlier, that - there are many who have suffered but what can give hope is that what they suffered for they have gained for it, because here we are now we have gained freedom that we have been wishing for.  So you also have a contribution into this freedom through the pain you have suffered.  
We all wish therefore that you could have seen all the beautiful things that happened like the inauguration of Mr Mandela as the president, but unfortunately you couldn't see all that because your eyes were removed.  But though you don't express it, but in you heart you still know that he is president and you even say you have also made a contribution with your eyes until we are here in this level.  
I now hear you saying you can never work again, but there are many people who are blind but learn a lot.  Now don't you want to try and learn something because I know of those who're telephonist, et cetera and many other things.

MR YABO: I will.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you say? I say I didn't hear your answer and because you said you were no longer going to be able to work.  Now I'm saying there are many blind people - even in our office in Cape Town we have our - a telephonist who is like you - he is blind to - therefore I'm asking you whether you do not have any wishes to do some studies, so that you can be able to work for yourselves - self.  Okay, you'll think - you'll think about this.  
I must remind you about people like Stevie Wonder - perhaps you can also sing, don't - can't you play a guitar?

MR YABO: No, I can't.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, we therefor thank you, Sir.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

ADV POTGIETER: So, you are saying that Mr Esop contacted a attorney?

MR MOLOWITZ: Yes, I don't know how far he got with that.

ADV POTGIETER: But you personally never went to an attorney.

MR MOLOWITZ: No.

ADV POTGIETER: And you never instituted a claim for the damage which you suffered?

MR MOLOWITZ: No, not yet.

ADV POTGIETER: No claims

MR MOLOWITZ: No

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Molowitz, thank you very much.  We, as the Commission, will try to see what help we can offer to you.  You've experienced something very terrible and when one thinks of all the people who have been assaulted, injured and so many of them are people that we don't know anything about.
We don't even know what happened to them.  We appreciate people like yourself  who have come forward to come and give evidence here.  And we would like to be something which is going to go down in our history books.  Something about all the people who have been injured, who have been killed, who have been assaulted, who have made a contribution to the progress that we have made thus far. 
We now have democracy, we have a democratically elected Government and that is thanks to the contribution made by people such as yourself because of the trauma which you have suffered and this has helped to bring out democracy - make our democracy a reality. 
 We thank you and we would like to  assure you that we will do our best to see what relieve we can bring you.  Thank you very much, thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes, it was only Katriena who got burnt and she got the - she fell and had an injury on the heal and at the time she had to move on a wheelchair because she could not walk.  But she is all right now and she is in George.

ADV POTGIETER: I just want you to confirm, you said to us in your statement that Katriena got burnt.  She burnt her feet trying  to put out the flames, is that what actually happened?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes sir.

ADV POTGIETER: She was in hospital for several months, is it for six months?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes sir.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] for that period of time?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Her legs were burnt, then she got you say vel - it's a - and she has an injury on the heal, and she also got skin grafts and she would use a wheelchair.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] if I ...[intervention]

DORA VUMAZONKE: Katriena Aapies

ADV POTGIETER: Is it Aapies?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Where is she now?

DORA VUMAZONKE: She is in George.

ADV POTGIETER: Is she a relative of yours?

DORA VUMAZONKE: No, we know her - we just know her very well.

ADV POTGIETER: In which hospital was she?

DORA VUMAZONKE: She was in one of the hospitals here in Beaufort West.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you have an address where she can be contacted?

DORA VUMAZONKE: No, I don't have.  People would come with - I don't have their address.  One who has got - have phone number is Zuziwe who is in here,  I don't know their telephone number.

ADV POTGIETER: Would you be able to assist the Commission to get in touch with her?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes, Zuziwe  is sitting there at the back, she could help.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Ms Vumazonke.

MARY BURTON: Ms Vumazonke are you speaking - are you here on behalf of your brother because it's his house which was burnt down?  Your brother sanctioned you to come here and speak on his behalf?

DORA VUMAZONKE: Yes ma'am.

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] coming to tell us of the experience that you and your family had.  As dr Ramashala has said this is not the first time we have heard of the experience of people who either were or had been community counselors.  It was indeed fortunate that nobody was killed and we will follow up some of the indications that you have given us.  We thank you very much for coming today.  We ask the audience now to stand as the witnesses leave the room.  We will break for lunch and be back at 2 o'clock.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

ADV POTGIETER: And as far as you were concerned you hadn't committed any offenses, you merely went there because you were elected and to represent the plight of the people.

MS HUGO: No because there weren't any such crimes in Murraysburg.

ADV POTGIETER: So did the council of ten -  after your arrest was the council of ten dissolved - did it cease to exist?

MS HUGO: Yes, everything ceased to exist because it's a small place.

ADV POTGIETER: So do you think that the reason that the police arrested you and a few other people was to disband the council of ten - to cease their activities?

MS HUGO: It has to be because the woman's league and everything ells has been disbanded.

ADV POTGIETER: And what has since happened to the complaints of the people about their houses?

MS HUGO: People are still battling, they are still oppressed, they still live in chanteys.

ADV POTGIETER: And has there never since been a structure that's been established after the council of ten, is there no civic organization or anything?

MS HUGO: No, not as far as I know.

ADV POTGIETER: And you say that the complaints are still the same?

MS HUGO: Yes, everything is still the same.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you

MS SEROKE: Ms Hugo, you say that you've got two children and that your husband has disappeared and you are out of work.  How do you manage to bring up these children, who helps you financially?

MS HUGO: The two married sisters always give us something to eat, but they cannot contribute towards everything such as clothing or school uniforms  and things like that.  But as far as food is concerned they'll always give us a bit of food and we've got to find ways to survive and it was just very difficult, you couldn't always put your case forward and in 1994 I applied here at Fort Beaufort -  at Beaufort West and I am still waiting for a reply.

MS SEROKE: Ms Hugo, thank you very much for coming to tell us this picture of Murraysburg as it was in '86 and of the problems that still persist today.  We're very grateful to you for coming, thank you.

MS HUGO: Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

ZOMARIUS BOCKS: No, sorry I told - I tell a lie.  What happened is like - I went to the doctor at that stage, Dr Neeht.  Today he is not in my home town, but what happened  he only give me pills for my kidney cyst - the only way - I told him everything what happened with me, but unfortunately he's just taking it cool because it's his brothers who done that to me.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And you still suffer dizziness today?

ZOMARIUS BOCKS: Today still  and had have even a problem with my kidneys because laying on the floor, that side.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay, thank you.

ADV POTGIETER: Any other questions?

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Zo-Marius.  We've said that many of you young people made a large contribution significant to the liberation of our country.  Many of you are victims and maybe  if it helps you what you've suffered there - those years - actually have helped to bring us to this point in our history where we are a country busting a democratic system.  
I don't know whether it helps to levitate the pain you know, if you think back like this, you can say at leased that it was not in vain because we are now experiencing the fruit of you efforts.  Now and then we need to remark that many of our young people have not enjoyed their youth and they had to participate in this struggle in the way - like the people like you have had to do it.  But we want to thank you, we also need to say that we have to remind ourselves that a very high price was paid for our freedom and we must not waist our freedom easily.  We thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

ADV POTGIETER: We would like to remember those who laid down their lives and I would ask you to stand as I read their names, please.  We remember all those who laid down their lives in striving for justice, equality and freedom, but in particular we remember
Mzandeli Injeneni
Nono Kellem
Jerry Ndishe
Mandlenkosi Kratshi
Vujani Macoba
Emily Manong
May they rest in the memory that they sacrifices there not in vain -  thank you.

MS SEROKE: Thank you,  Chairperson.   I will read the list of witnesses who will be appearing for the day  
Zenzile Lolwana - will be appearing on her behalf.  The nature of the violation is  detention and torture in 1985.
Rosy Hugo - appearing  on her own behalf.  The nature of the violation is detention in 1986. 
Matthew Sindile Yanta - appearing on his behalf.  The nature of the violation is detention and torture, 1986.
Johannes Bonas - appearing on his behalf.  The nature of the violation detention and torture.
Nonight Annie Qayi - appearing on her behalf.  The nature of the violation detention in 1985.
Masinda Fatyela - appearing on his behalf.  The nature of the violation torture by police in 1985.
Dora Vumazonke - appearing on her behalf.  The nature of the violation her home was stoned and burnt down by toi-toing youth.
Simphiwe Kratshi and Nonceba Mangaliso appearing on behalf of Mandlenkosi Kratshi.  The nature of the violation the father shot and killed by police in 1985.   
Chairperson, I will ask our first witness for today to come forward please and the name is Zenzile Lolwana.  Mr Lolwana can you hear me?

MR LOLWANA: [indistinct]

MS SEROKE: Good morning, could you stand to take the oath please?

<UNKNOWN>: Could the victim just put on the microphone.
ZENZILE LOLWANA Duly sworn states

MS SEROKE: Thank you, my colleague  Ms Joyce Seroke - will assist Mr Lolwana in his testimony.  Thank you.

MS SEROKE: Morning Zenzile.

MR LOLWANA: Good morning

MS SEROKE: You are going to tell us about what happened in 1986 when you were tortured by the police in George.   We are therefore going to ask you to present your story briefly.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

MARY BURTON: Press the button so that you can speak into the microphone.  I see that you have somebody to support you is she a relative or a friend?

MR STUURMAN: A relative.

MARY BURTON: A relative, you very welcome.    You want to use a headset or can you - you are all right.  Mr Stuurman will you  please stand to take the oath.
SIPIWO IVIN STUURMAN Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Thank you, Chairperson we have heard this afternoon from Sidney Yabo, from Jan Molowitz and from Thabo Metsing, and we were expecting to hear from the brother in law of Jerry Ndishi.  And we are now going to hear from Sipiwo Stuurman.
 They were all victimised in similar ways, in a similar period and we earlier today thought - in memory of Jerry Ndishi who at the age of  13 was shot dead on the 1st of January 1988.  I am going to ask advocate Potgieter to help Mr Stuurman in telling us his story.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Mary - good afternoon Mr Stuurman.   Are you comfortable?

MR STUURMAN: Yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Good, you have waited a while to get your change to give your testimony.  I thank you  for your patience.  As Mary had indicated, yet again your story takes us to that era when the kitskonstabels were operating in the township in Beaufort West .  The incidents had happened as Joyce Seroke has indicated this morning between about May/June of 1987 to about the  beginning of 1988.  And your story again relates to that period and you are also one of those people who  fell victim in that - in that era.
 But before we get to the shooting incident, involving the kitskonstabels, your story starts a bit earlier than that, it starts at the time when you were still schooling in 1985.  So can I ask you to start at that stage when you were still at school in 1985 and then take us through to the actual shooting incident where you  were injured.
 So would you start by - by telling us about the situation when you were still at school.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

ADV POTGIETER: Why - why do you think you were arrested?

MR YANTA: When they took me they said we had a made trenches there.  I did appear in court but I was found not guilty and after that I was arrested for state of emergency and I was again found not guilty.

ADV POTGIETER: The first arrest in June 1986, was that for having dug trenches in the - in the township or was it - under the emergency.  What did they tell you?

MR YANTA: That first time they arrested me for digging trenches and they took us to the Magistrates Court and we were found not guilty and from the court they again arrested me, saying that they were arresting me under the state of emergency.  Because it was after that case of the digging  of trenches.

ADV POTGIETER: So - so what they did as soon as the Magistrate found you not guilty, and you were supposed to have gone home, they immediately arrested you again and said well now we're arresting you under the state of emergency?

MR YANTA: Yes, it was like that.

ADV POTGIETER: And - and it was then they kept you for a number of months in detention?

MR YANTA: Yes, that's true.

ADV POTGIETER: And were you charged again during that second period of detention.

MR YANTA: No, they did not charge me.

ADV POTGIETER: They just kept you there locked up and eventually just released you without even charging you for anything?

MR YANTA: Yes, it's like that.

ADV POTGIETER: How do you feel about that?

MR YANTA: When I recall this as even now as I'm sitting - when I talk about it, I feel like a person who's still under arrest.

MARY BURTON: Mr Yanta, I'm sorry I'm looking at the wrong piece of paper.  I wanted to ask you when you returned to Murraysburg, you mentioned that you found that the people were on strike for the houses.  Is that the same - same action that Ms Hugo  was telling us about?

MR YANTA: I've haven't made mention of anything like that.

MARY BURTON: So when you came back to Murraysburg it was - you didn't - it was not anything that  you were  doing in Murraysburg that you think that made you be arrested?

MR YANTA: What I think is there was nothing that had led to my arrest.  I was  arrested for nothing.

MARY BURTON: Thank you very much Mr Yanta, we can see that you still are angry at what happened to you and not satisfied and you we are - we are pleased that you have come to tell us about it, so that it can be heard in public and so that people can understand what conditions were like at that time.  Thank you very much for coming to talk to us this morning.

MR YANTA: I also thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

WILLIAM MAKULANI: The second one is a University Student at the University of the Western Cape.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How are you paying for them at the university?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: [indistinct]

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How are you paying for the one at the university?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: I'm unable to pay  her school fees but she  is there at the school.  I do get accounts that she is  [indistinct]

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How about the third one?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: Then the third is not attending school.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: How old is she?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: He is quit old.   He's around about thirty years of age.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: And the last one?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: The last one is the one at the University.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Makulani, how are you managing?  I mean I know you say your wife is working, but do you get any kind of assistance like old age pension or  young age pension?

WILLIAM MAKULANI: Yes, there is.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Makulani, thank you very much.  I will - Chairperson thank you  very much.  I wander if my colleagues want to ask questions before I go to Mr Mralasi.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any questions?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Thank you, Mr Mralasi.  How are you?

ALWINUS MRALASI: I'm fine, thank you - nothing bad - it's just that I'm happy to see you and also to see so many people here after such a long time.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: I suppose you two are friends.  Am I right?

ALWINUS MRALASI: Yes, we are friends.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: So you have been helping each other threw out  this ordeal?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

CHAIRPERSON: Don't worry.  Let us say to both of you, as my comrades I'm saying to, we thank you.  Because there are some people who always consider freedom as having just started in 1976 -  for getting what your input too.  What surprises is that most cases as you said you were not even active but you were just arrested for nothing.
We therefore thank that the judge talked in the manner in which Mary Burton explained to us and he decided to release you.  But let us all say - let us observe that freedom.  We had to pay a very big price for it and in most cases people think that all these things happen only in Soweto, in Cape Town, in Durban and they tend to forget that this is just all over, especially in those hidden places.
This Commission helps therefore to let us know that our people were really suffering all over - not only in Soweto or in Cape Town, but in all the places.  And we therefor  must thank you and lift up our caps and say the price that you paid makes us remember and not to forget that we should play about with  the freedom we have got.
We also thank that - we thank you that - God also touched your heart when you saw this man,  that you intended to kill and you also listened when God  said to you look at his condition.  And you had, as you mentioned.  All the people in here were quiet  at the  time because I think even God at that time was touching our souls and reminding us that there are many wounds that are within us.  But what we are trying to do at the moment to give you that key you mentioned - the key that opens the hearts so that you are able to say everything and by so doing you feel as if  someone is putting some oil in those wounds -  to heal those wounds, so that we should all thank God for giving us this time.
And God forgiving us that we should - we should not have hatred. We should not want to revenges ourselves, we should reconcile instead and we should except one another so that this land that went through all this, should be blessed by God and God should place us in a position where we shall be exemplary to Rwanda, to Burundi and we point back to our past.  And say to them, here we are today, united we are.  We therefor thank you so much,  I thank you.
Thank you, may God bless you too and keep you and take care of you -  even your families as well, because God says what can you do to men and he places you in a very wide place.  I thank you.  We are now going to take a break for lunch, let us all stand as the witnesses removes them from their places,  please.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

MS SEROKE: Mr Bonas, I just want to be quite clear you went to the doctor when the police took you to the doctor and the Mr Kalolo helped you to find another doctor.  Which of those doctors was Dr Basson?

JOHANNES BONAS: When I was released, Kalolo took me in his car and took me to DR a certain - to a certain doctor in DR a  Moslem doctor, I have forgotten his name.

MS SEROKE: A certain Dr Basson was the doctor that the police took you there?

JOHANNES BONAS: Yes, it's a doctor there in Richmond.

MS SEROKE: Mr Kalolo was a leader in Richmond at the time, was he?

JOHANNES BONAS: Yes, he was a leader but we could not say that because he to was in danger because the policemen wanted to shoot him too.

MS SEROKE: So you were protecting him and you were not giving his name?

JOHANNES BONAS: I was forced to protect him.

MS SEROKE: And then afterwards he helped you with a lawyer and a doctor?

JOHANNES BONAS: Yes, because he ordered his doctor - his  lawyer from Graaff-Reinet and brought it to the Police Station.

MS SEROKE: And he's - he's  no longer alive, is that right?

JOHANNES BONAS: Yes, he died.

MS SEROKE: Mr Bonas, thank you very much for coming to tell us the things that have happened to you.  We've taken note of them all and we will see what more we can find out and what can be done, thank you very much for coming.

JOHANNES BONAS: I also thank you ma'am.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

CASE NO: CT/00582

MARY BURTON: Ms Qayi can you hear me?

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI: [indistinct]

MARY BURTON: [indistinct] you be convertible, good thank you.  Would you stand to take the oath, please?
NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Chairperson - my colleague - Ms Joyce Seroke will facilitate the witness.

MS SEROKE: Good morning Ms Night, is this name you got from your marriage?

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI: Yes, it is.

MS SEROKE: Before you can explain to us what happened to you in 1985, could you briefly tell us about your family and how many children you have and what you are doing as a person?

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI: I have eight children but they are quite old  because some of them are married.  Those I live with - there are only two of them and they are boys.  One is of school going age attending school in Cape Town - another one is here with me attending school.

MARY BURTON: How old are they?

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI: The one in Cape Town is 25 years old and the one I live with is 21 years old.

MS SEROKE: You mean even the one who is 25 years old is still attending school?

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI: Yes, he is in a university in Bellville, all right.

MS SEROKE: Now, explain Nonight what happened to you in 1985.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-13

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mr Fatyela, good morning can you hear me?

MR FATYELA: Yes, I can hear you.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay.
MASINDA FATYELA Duly sworn states

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Chairperson to facilitate the testimony of Mr Fatyela is Adv Denzil Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Dr Ramashala, Mr Fatyela I see - I noticed it's afternoon, good afternoon to you and welcome here.

MR FATYELA: Good afternoon.

ADV POTGIETER: You are from Richmond, is that correct?

MR FATYELA: Yes, it's like that.

ADV POTGIETER: Can you just very briefly just  tell us who you are, something about yourself before we talk of the incident that you want to tell us about.

MR FATYELA: Thank you, my name is Masinda - my full name Masinda Phifakela, my clang name is Xhati, I live in Richmond in Sabello.  I like music and sport and I play rugby - I am not married.

ADV POTGIETER: Well thank you very much for that, what do you do at the moment.  Are you employed or what - what do you do?

MR FATYELA: I'm there at home, I'm doing part time jobs there at a local creche which is controlled by the residents - there is no other work I do.

ADV POTGIETER: The story you want to tell us relates to 1985 at a time when you were still at school.  In fact you were then at Ixaya Combined Junior Secondary School in Richmond, is that correct?

MR FATYELA: Yes, it's like that.

ADV POTGIETER: What standard were you doing there?

MR FATYELA: I was doing Std 6 then.

ADV POTGIETER: And  [indistinct] you were then a member of the SRC at the school ?

MR FATYELA: Yes, that's true, I was a member of the SRC then there at Ixaya.

ADV POTGIETER: And the incident happened around October of that year - of 1985 - is that correct?

MR FATYELA: Yes, it's true.

ADV POTGIETER: And you were in fact arrested at school by the police and removed from the school premises, is that so?

MR FATYELA: That's true.

ADV POTGIETER: And can you tell us what happened when you were arrested at - by the police and taken away?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Beaufort West — 1996-08-12

MARY BURTON: I am sorry we kept you waiting a long time and I know you are not feeling very well.  But thank you very much for coming to tell us your story this afternoon and I am glad to see that you have somebody to accompany you, is she a friend of yours?

UNKNOWN: Ja, she is my sister.

MARY BURTON: Very nice, you very welcome too.   Are you happy without the headsets?

UNKNOWN: Ja it's quite noisy when I put them on.

MARY BURTON: All right, please will you stand and take the oath.
NTOMBIZANELE ELSIE ZINGXONDO Duly sworn states

MARY BURTON: Thank you, you live here in Beaufort West now don't you?

UNKNOWN: That's correct.

MARY BURTON: But the incident that you are going to tell us about happened when you were living in Knysna.

UNKNOWN: That's right.

MARY BURTON: Was that originally the place where you grew up?

UNKNOWN: No I was visiting people there.

MARY BURTON: Oh! okay, well you have a difficult story to tell us this afternoon and it started in 1986 on the 17th of June 1986 when you were in Knysna and you were arrested and accused of committing an act that you say - said then and say now that you did not commit, is that right?

UNKNOWN: That's right.

MARY BURTON: And what happened to you then when people came  and arrested you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Benoni — 1997-02-05

MR LEWIN: Yes.
 Mrs Beech what we will do is obviously try and follow this up through the contacts.   The most important opening that has come is that there has been the official submission from the SADF which is something that we as a Commission is following up.   So that we are in a position  where we can ask specific questions.
 I mean, we fully understand the situation that you and your family are in, in not knowing what happened and also in quite legitimately, quite justifiably wanting to know what happened to your son.  If he was killed, where he was killed, where he was buried.

MRS BEECH: We want him back.

MR LEWIN: And bring back his remains.

MRS BEECH: Well the international Red Cross said that he had applied for identification autopsy and post-mortem report and a death certificate and we got nothing.

MR LEWIN: So that was the Red Cross in Harare?

MRS BEECH: No that was the Red Cross here in Pretoria.  They went up there.

MR LEWIN: So we could follow that up with them as well.

MRS BEECH: Yes.

MR LEWIN: OK.  Well thank you.   As I say it is a completely unfair situation to be in, where private citizens have no recourse, no way of breaking through this official silence.
 We totally sympathise with you on that and will do whatever we can. 
 We would like to thank you very much and your family for coming forward in this way.   It is actually very important that through these hearings we are able to show actually the breadth of experience that took place in these years and we would like to thank you very very much for coming forward.  Thank you.

MRS BEECH: Because we just want a little bit of fair treatment.  That is all.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

MRS BEECH: Thank you.
 Where do I give in this extra papers?

MR LEWIN: You can give them to us here.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Ladies and gentlemen we will now break and come back as soon after half past eleven as possible.

COMMISSION ADJOURNS: .
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Benoni — 1997-02-05

MR LEWIN: We would like to try and offer some comfort, but I mean there is, what you have told us and what you have been through, is something that nobody can compensate.   Nobody can bring back your child.  Nobody can make any compensation which would be sufficient to compensate for what has happened to you, because it was something that was particularly cruel and particularly callous and unnecessary and senseless.
 So what we can try and do is to find out more about the case, to answer that question for you.  Not only who was actually responsible, but why.  To try and do that and explain for you and many many others who are in the same position.  
 And what we would say also is to thank you for your courage in coming forward, because what you have done in doing this is to help everyone understand a little bit more about what happened, about the suffering that was imposed by the system and to ensure therefore that nothing like this can ever happen again to any of us.
 So for that we would like to thank you and we will assure you we will do what we can.
 Thank you very much for coming.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Benoni — 1997-02-05

MR LEWIN: Could I please call the next witness, Lawrence Mbambo.  Would you please come forward.  And could the rest of the people please now settle down and keep quiet.   Mr Mbambo, welcome.  Thank you very much for being patient and waiting for us.  Hope you feel comfortable.  And before I ask Dr Randera to lead you in your evidence could you please stand and take the oath.

MR MBAMBO: (sworn statement)

MR LEWIN: Could we just, before Dr Randera starts, could we either close the back door or keep it quiet there please.

DR RANDERA: Mr Mbambo good afternoon.  How are you?

MR MBAMBO: Thank Mr Chairman.

DR RANDERA: Mr Mbambo, before you proceed could you just introduce the person who is sitting next to you?

MR MBAMBO: The person next to me is Zimelda Langa.  She is my cousin's sister.  She is the only person who was in the house.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, I welcome her too.  Mr Mbambo you are taking us to 1991.  You are going to be talking about yourself and what happened to your wife.  Please take your time in going through your story.  We will be asking some questions at the end but that is just for clarification.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Benoni — 1997-02-05

MS SEROKE: Yes, I would like to ask, if the people who were shooting were police or soldiers?  My last question is now you are still waiting and at the end of the TRC it is just then we will be able to recommend on your behalf, but for now how are you surviving at home?

VICTOR NKWAMBA: As I have said that we are suffering at home.  I do get a disability grant which is not much.

MS SEROKE: How much is that disability grant?

VICTOR NKWAMBA: It is R430 a month.

MS SEROKE: What about the wheelchair?   Do you have a wheelchair?

VICTOR NKWAMBA: You can come and have a look at my wheelchair now.  At the hospital I found out that if I wanted a wheelchair I had to pay, about R300.

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Victor, are there any other questions or any other points that you would like to make?   And of course you are free to make further representations to us.

VICTOR NKWAMBA: No, I said I have said all that I wanted to say.

MR LEWIN: OK.  I would like to thank you very much for coming, for telling us this.  I mean you are one of those people whom we salute, because of your suffering, I think because of your courage and the way that you have shown, those of us who were not affected in the drastic way that you were, have shown us through the years how to continue, how to survive.
 Yes it is a terrible thing for you and we will obviously do what we can.   Russell has explained about the way in which we will make recommendations.  How the Reparations Committee make recommendations to Parliament, but obviously that will affect both medical support, possible medical support for you, possible support for your education.
 What we would, what I would like to say is, you know, continue in that way.  The fact that you have come forward as you have, shows tremendous courage and tremendous fortitude. And we would salute you for that and recommend that you stay in touch.  You are not alone, do not forget that.  There are unfortunately large numbers of people in the same position as you are.  
 We would recommend that you contact and make use of that network.  And obviously come back to other people.
 Before you go I think there is nice coincidence.  You mentioned in your statement that on that day, 21 years ago, one of the people who was a fellow student who actually helped you to the hospital, was one Cyril Rabotata who is sitting as our Media Officer for the TRC, and sitting with the media.  That is a nice conjunction.
 Thank you very much for coming.

VICTOR NKWAMBA: Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Benoni — 1997-02-05

MR LEWIN: Alegria we would like to welcome you.  It is good to meet again.  Very pleased that you have been able to come.
 Before asking Tom Manthata to lead your evidence could I please ask you to stand and take the oath?

MS NYOKA: (sworn states)

THOMAS MANTHATA: With whom are you?

MS NYOKA: Can you repeat please Sir?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes.  I was saying, good morning.  Please relax.  And I further wanted to know with whom are you?

MS NYOKA: My name is Alegria Nyoka from Daveyton and I am the sister of the late Caiphus Nyoka who was killed in 1987.   With me here, next to me is my mother, Saroma Nyoka and next to her is one of our family friend, Monica Wright who were very sympathetic to our family after the occurrence.   And in this row I have got two uncles who are here to support us.  They are brothers to my father and they are two sisters again, who are younger sisters to Caiphus Nyoka.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And you are the eldest child in the family?

MS NYOKA: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  And presently, what are you doing Alegria?

MS NYOKA: Presently I am working as a Community Health
Nurse at Daveyton Clinic, but I am under the greater Benoni Council.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Would you give us roughly an estimate number of the family members, that is directly affected by the past political conflicts?

MS NYOKA: Can you repeat your question please?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Can you roughly give us the number of the family, you know of the Nyoka family, directly affected by this political conflict of the apartheid era?

MS NYOKA: The immediate family that was affected by this death, is my mother, myself, I have got a brother who is presently overseas, and my two sisters, who are teaching, and there is the last born brother, Titus, who unfortunately is not here.  And then my two daughters as well.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And if I get it right, that entire family was politically conscious and politically active.

MS NYOKA: I would say so.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Alegria I see we have quite a thick statement from the family but we would have loved that you give us a precise picture of how, you know, the brother was killed, you know, the involvement of the police, perhaps even the courts if ever they were used.  Could that please be all.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-09

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to remember the deceased now, Sputsu Cameron Matikinca, Tobile Kali, Vusumzi Sydney Nqabisa, Monde Ben Mfenge, Nathaniel Mnyamezeli Myeha, Luzuko Ramncwana, Vukani Mbula, Zwelitsha Lali, Xolani Kaleni, Thembinkosi Harold Billie.  We would like to ask Father Nangna to say a prayer for us.

FATHER NANGNA: Let us close our eyes and pray.  Can we first sing this hymn. [singing of hymn]  Dear God be with us, where there is hatred let us sow love, where there is danger let us sow peace, where there is discord let us sow harmony, where there is doubt let us sow faith.  Dear God, where there is despair let us sow hope, where there is darkness let us sow light.  Dear God where there is sorrow let us sow joy and make our presence dear God, make it unnecessary for comfort, let us be the comforters, make us understanding so that we should not want to be loved but rather let us love because it is in giving that we shall receive because it is in forgiving that we shall be forgiven, because you have taught us God that it is in death where we will be born into life everlasting.  You have done all this God and You'll do all this in the name of Your Son who has died for us and risen for us so that we can live in Your Spirit. Amen.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-09

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, thank you very much.  The paragraph on the bottom of page 4 which you have referred to now again.  'Managing relationships with the TBVC was the most depressing and distressing experience of my life.  I inherited a nightmare that was once a dream.'
 Now I want to suggest that it is inevitable that the majority of people who did not believe in the establishment of so-called independent states were, could hardly be blamed if they felt that the South African government, having created these states, could never really disown parenthood, that they were the parents of this, the father if you like, of these states and therefore had authority to exercise control.  
 I think you will concede that the South African government never hesitated to exercise control when it wished to do so, certainly for a very long period of time.  Now it does seem to me that what you are saying is that in fact what the South African government of that time created, was a Frankenstein or something that got out of control and yet when it clearly needed to be stopped in its tracks, those who created it couldn't do that because these people now said, we're independent, keep your hands off us baaskap or you know, the way you described it.
 What I'm saying is that in a very real sense the responsibility of what happened on September 7th is not just  ... end of Tape 6, side A ... and that this was a consequence and what we are living with now is a legacy which is extremely hard to manage.  You yourself have indicated this and anybody knows as they look at the situation now, two years after elections, that there is desperate poverty in these parts of the world, that there is unbelievable corruption which has taken place over a very long period of time and that there were attitudes demonstrated on that terrible day which had no respect for life.
 I don't know, understand how, I don't know any other way of describing what happened that day when I look at it and listen to the victims and so on, that, and Goldstone's own considered opinion, that this was, this was bloody murder.  Now you can understand therefore, Mr Botha, I'm sure that there are those who still feel that somehow you and your colleagues had the power to pull the plug, either by simply declaring some moratorium, disposing of this man, providing a referendum, something in order to get to the will of the people before this conflict became unmanageable.
 Now you have made a number of statements in recent months and years which reflect a considerable thinking of your own role and of the government's role and of what's happened in this country and so on.  Does anything I say make sense?  I am trying to get to the roots of the matter rather than just the actual events of those days.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-09

WITNESS:  It would be difficult but I would like to do it because I have heard this Commission previously say that it hasn't got anything.  I am a student and while I am school I am busy with standard ten and I would like to continue with my education and during the course of my studies what I have heard from doctors is that there are certain things that I am not going to be able to do.  Another problem that I have is that I constantly complain about backache and I get tired very quickly, so I would then ask the Commission to assist me so that I can continue with my education and that it should give me assistance so that if ever I, whenever I experience these pains again that I should be able to consult a doctor.

UNKNOWN:  Did you say that you made an application for a disability grant?

WITNESS:  Yes that is correct.  We were in Mdantsane Constituency offices on a Friday and we were told there that the Truth Commission statement takers were not there yet and we were told to go back on Monday.  When we went back the Monday and I tried to establish from the lady who was there at the Constituent offices how I could go about this and she said that you could try going to the hospital and there you could ask them for your medical report.

UNKNOWN:  What did the doctor say in the medical report?  Did he say whether or not you are fit to receive a disability grant?

WITNESS:  Yes, the doctor declares me fit to receive this grant.

UNKNOWN:  Have you ever been to an attorney for assistance, to institute a civil claim?

WITNESS:  No I've never been to one.

UNKNOWN:  Was there any reason why you did not do this?

WITNESS:  I did not know where to start.

UNKNOWN:  Is that all you would like to say to us Mr Gusha?

WITNESS:  Yes that is all.

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much.  Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank all of you and would like you to know that we sympathise with you and those who have lost friends and family and the request that you have put before the Commission, even though you say shame, this poor Commission hasn't got anything, hasn't got any money.  That is true but we are going to try by all means to see what we can do.  Thank you very much.  ... end of Tape 8, side A ...

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 1 - 9 SEPTEMBER 1996

RONNIE KASRILS: RONNIE KASRILS  Duly sworn states

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you very much, you have to leave me.