Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

CHAIRPERSON: And one of the conditions that was imposed was that you would have to cooperate and work with them? With the police?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes they said I must cooperate. I must work with them because there was no other way.

CHAIRPERSON: And did you accept those conditions?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I accepted the conditions because I didn't have a choice because I was already home.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MALE SPEAKER: Sorry Mr Chairperson. Can I just clarify this. Did you return on your own to South Africa or were you infiltrated into the country and then thereafter you changed your mind to hand yourself over to the police?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I came back on my own.

MR KNIGHT: Thank you Mr Chairman. Now shortly after your arrival the first commanding officer was Captain Jan Coetzee and is it correct that there was a further commanding officer called Jack Cronje who followed him?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Shortly after my arrival he became my commanding officer.

MR KNIGHT: And at the time of the incident that we are presently moving to, that we are applying for amnesty here today at that time Colonel Eugene de Kock was your commanding officer. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes he was the commanding officer after the other one.

MR KNIGHT: What were your duties at Vlakplaas as an askaris? Can you just tell the Committee briefly what your function was?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Most of the times we were dealing with arresting those who were outside and we were dealing with ammunition, explosives. Some of them we could identify them. We knew them.

MR KNIGHT: So your official function as askaris was to assist in the tracing of insurgents and the arrest of the insurgents. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct that was my job.

MR KNIGHT: Now in operations would people be abducted? There was obviously a lot of things that happened at Vlakplaas that were not normal police work in the strict sense of the word? In the uniform sense of the word?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I don't get your question Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: The question is; in the Vlakplaas were you responsible for abducting people because a lot of things that were happening there is things that were not normal? That were not the job of the policemen. Were you working on your own? Doing your own things?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The way we were operating as far as I am concerned when we were arresting a person we would arrest that person and we would take the person to the nearest police station wherever we were. Or if that person is from the exile we would try to convince that person to work with us and if possible we would work with him. But if he refuses or disagrees we would charge that person. That person would be charged.

MR KNIGHT: Thank you Mr Chairman. Now after your arrival at Vlakplaas you were appointed as a police officer. Is that correct? As a constable?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Now at the time that you were at Vlakplaas did you ever get orders that were in writing?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No none, no instructions that I got in writing.

MR KNIGHT: Is it true to say that all of the orders given at Vlakplaas to yourself as a student constable and askaris would have been verbal?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes the orders were verbally but they were reading from something, from a book but they were telling us verbally. They wouldn't give us something written for us to read. They wouldn't give us anything to read.

MR KNIGHT: Did you ever question any of the orders that you were given?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I never questioned.

MR KNIGHT: Did you regard the orders that you received as legal orders?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As our officers we saw it as the right thing and the job that we were doing we didn't have a problem.

MR KNIGHT: Now were any disciplinary steps ever taken against you for your activities at Vlakplaas and regarding the present application in respect of the death of the deceased?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: There was no problem. Nothing happened.

MR KNIGHT: Now moving to this application in respect of the murder. Were you part of the planning of the operation to move from Vlakplaas to go to Barkley East? Were you part of that planning or did you just receive orders to proceed?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: We got the orders telling us where to go but concerning the deceased we got the orders when we were already in the Transkei in the Barkley East that is when we were told that there are people who were dangerous to the community who were involved in some activities.

MR KNIGHT: Yes I will come to that later. I am just trying to establish at this point your level of seniority at Vlakplaas was am operational, you were a foot soldier. You didn't have any working in target evaluation or projects. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I was just a constable.

MR KNIGHT: And you were following orders.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes our seniors would give us instructions.

MR KNIGHT: Now did you regard the operation that you proceeded in to arrest or abduct the deceased in this matter as being an operation directed against the African National Congress?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I regarded it as a job because if the government issued some instructions I wouldn't have a problem. I would proceed with the job that I was given. I wouldn't suspect anything. I wouldn't think of anything wrong or right. I was just taking orders.

MR KNIGHT: Yes I understand that. I am asking was it directed against the ANC because the deceased was a member of the ANC?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I can say this was directed to the ANC and the PAC. Those were the organisations that were existing.

MR KNIGHT: Now at the time was the ANC and the PAC in 1985 a band organisation?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is correct they were band.

MR KNIGHT: Did you regard the ANC and the PAC as enemies of the Republic of South Africa?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I regarded them as the enemy.

MR KNIGHT: Now the deceased was he to your knowledge a member of the ANC?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I didn't know him as a member of the ANC but we got that information that he was a member of the ANC.

MR KNIGHT: You were told this?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

MR KNIGHT: Now Mr Shabalala before we proceed into the details of the incident I just want to go through parts of your previous amnesty application and I want to refer you to 41 of the paginated record. Now this is the statement dated the 13th of December 1996. This statement. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that is correct.

MR KNIGHT: Now where was this statement, where were you at the time? Were you in prison?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I was in detention in Piet Retief.

MR KNIGHT: For what reason were you in detention in prison in Piet Retief?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: There is an incident that took place in 19-something when I arrived in Piet Retief at work I was charged for that incident.

MR KNIGHT: And that is the subject matter of another amnesty application. Is that correct?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I made an application to that effect.

MR KNIGHT: Now at page 54 of the record there is another amnesty application and this is filled in, in handwriting. Can you identify whose handwriting it is that wrote the application out for you? Is it the person who signed at page 60, being Reverend Dino Gabriel? Did he also assist you in the drafting of your amnesty application?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes this is the Reverend that I met in Piet Retief and I had some books during the trial telling me that I can make some applications. That is what I got in Piet Retief from that Reverend.

MR KNIGHT: So why did you have two applications? Did you get worried that the one wasn't being dealt with and you were approached in prison?