Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

ANSWER: In the context of the security operations that I was involved in, all of them, the Regional Office instructions and picking specific targets always came from the Regional Office and was passed on to the Branch Office, but in this specific case, as I say the message was relayed to me as coming from the Regional Office.

<UNKNOWN>: Whose function was it to identify ANC targets?

ANSWER: The officer responsible for the ANC desk in this specific country - Lesotho - was at the time W/O Prinsloo, Hendrik Prinsloo, of course in consultation and with the final decision of his Regional Commander who was Colonel
1a	Coetzee /...
MR JANSEN	6	D J COETZEE
Coetzee.

<UNKNOWN>: Can one also assume that somebody like Captain Louw would know that your Unit, Section C1 fell directly under the command of the headquarters?

ANSWER: He knew that explicitly, yes Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Would it be your practice to report back on missions to your superiors at headquarters.

ANSWER: That is true Mr Chairman and it is also done by the Regional Office itself, but I then de-brief my officer commanding Brigadier Schoon in headquarters upon my return.

<UNKNOWN>: Would somebody like Captain Louw have been aware of the fact that you would be reporting back to your superiors at headquarters?

ANSWER: 100% Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Was it at all your function at Section C1 to evaluate and identify targets?

ANSWER: Not at all Mr Chairperson, I didn't work with any files or was involved in any collecting of information as far as the freedom organisations were concerned.   I was on the operational side only.

<UNKNOWN>: How did you then satisfy yourself that your operations had a direct bearing on your work as a security policeman?

ANSWER: Well I accepted it in context of the Security Police operational side, with so many people involved I knew that if it was at all any private enterprise it would never could have happened with the people involved at regional level in the Orange Free State, at branch level at Ladybrand and with me reporting back at Security Police Headquarters.
MR ?:: (Inaudible, no microphone.)

ANSWER: At regional level, Colonel Coetzee, in
1a	Bloemfontein /...
MR JANSEN	7	D J COETZEE
Bloemfontein, Regional Security Headquarters.
EXAMINATION BY MR JANSEN (contd)

<UNKNOWN>: Captain Louw at branch level at Ladybrand is that correct?

ANSWER: That is true Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Did you at the time regard an operation into a foreign country as being part of the Security Police legitimate work?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

<UNKNOWN>: Did you at the time regard the elimination of identified enemy targets as being justified police work?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairperson, common practice.

JUDGE WILSON: Common practice in 1981?

ANSWER: That's correct as far as our operations, secret operations, so-called "secret operations" against the enemy is concerned.   That's correct Mr Chairperson.
MR JANSEN (contd)

<UNKNOWN>: In exile you were told something more about the identity of this person called comrade A, is that correct?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

<UNKNOWN>: What were you told?

ANSWER: That the name of the person and as I say I haven't, I didn't see the exact spelling of it, it was just mentioned to me something in the line of... (impossible to transcribe)... or something like that, I can't pronounce it.  So the spelling in my manuscript is on hearing the name only, not seeing it how it's spelt.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JANSEN
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MPSHE

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Coetzee, in the manuscript on page 90 is stated that, and this you also repeated in your evidence,
1a	this /...
MR MPSHE	8	D J COETZEE
this paragraph 5.4, page 90, book 1, paragraph 5.4.11.3.7 this you also confirmed in your evidence that the specific instructions you gave to them was that they should knock at the door and when he opens, they must fire and throw a hand grenade?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: It would seem from the manuscript and your evidence that they did not do that, instead they shot him through the window?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairperson.

<UNKNOWN>: Did they explain to you as to why they did not carry out the instructions as given to them by yourself?

ANSWER: If I could remember correctly that when they knocked, comrade A did not want to open the door, if I understand the question correctly.

<UNKNOWN>: They reported to you that they shot at him through the window, did they explain to you or report to you the extent of the injuries, whether they did shoot him at all?

ANSWER: I can't remember whether they were 100% sure whether they did in fact, whether he was caught in the firing, they believed that there was a possibility that they did hit him.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MPSHE

UNKNOWN: What did you report to Schoon?

ANSWER: Exactly the order that I received Mr Chairperson and what happened and what was reported back to me by the team after the operation.

UNKNOWN: Did you say it was a successful operation or what did you report in that connection?

ANSWER: I couldn't explain in detail as I say, it was not
1a	my /...
MR DE JAGER	9	D J COETZEE
my duty to do the after assessment of the success of the operation afterwards, that would have come from the Ladybrand branch office through the Free State/Bloemfontein Regional Office to headquarters, a full report on the final result and outcome of the operation.   The name was of no meaning to me at all and I've never met or seen the target Mr Chairperson....an ANC operative with the code name "comrade A".
QUESTIONS BEING ASKED - SPEAKER HAS NO MICROPHONE

CHAIRPERSON: What reason did you have to assume that the instructions that were given to you were reliable that the person who was about to be attacked was indeed an ANC activist?

ANSWER: Well Mr Chairperson, in strict theory it could have been possible that it was not, but because of the number of officers and persons involved and my reporting back in context in the job that I was employed and the experience that I had, it was impossible to execute an individual, a private operation of that magnitude into a foreign country, with the risks attached to it, being caught amongst other things without the necessary knowledge and back-up from as high up as Security Police headquarters.  There is examples in my operations where this in fact happened, if for instance I could remind the Commission of the abduction of Joe Pillay(?) where action was immediately taken two days after the incident and in fact even on the Sunday from Department of Foreign Affairs level and from General Johan Coetzee who was then the Regional, the headquarters security commander in Pretoria.
MR DE JAGER(?):: Sorry Mr Coetzee, I can't understand.   You are in charge of this whole operation, you've been
1a	brought /...
MEMBER OF PANEL	10	D J COETZEE
brought down from Pretoria to Ladybrand.

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: You went back to Pretoria and you can't report whether this operation was successful or not?

ANSWER: Well I can report that the shooting did took place and as I say, the postmortem of the operation is then done as I did not collect any information on the target or assess the target, in the same way it was not my job to assess the result of the specific operation.   That was done by the branch office and feedback was given through the regional office to security police headquarters.

UNKNOWN: But you instructed him to throw a grenade?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Did you enquire whether he did so?