Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-12

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... Newcastle, and you will be talking about your experiences at the hands of the Security Police, torture at the hands of the Security Police, in 1992 after your arrest.

LEONARD VEENENDAL: That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Before you give that evidence can you stand to take the oath?

LEONARD VEENENDAL: (Sworn, States)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  Mr Lax will assist you with your evidence.  You're welcome to have your wife on stage with you if she wants to come.

MR LAX: Good afternoon, Mr Veenendal, welcome.

WITNESS:   Good afternoon.  Thank you.

MR LAX: As you've heard it's customary for us to get a picture of you and your family, and before we start you - just for the record you are 30 years old.  What is your date of birth please?  Sorry, just if you press the red button.

WITNESS:   The 9th of April 1966.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Is it correct that you are presently a Conservative Party councillor in Newcastle?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: Having been so elected just in the recent Local Government elections.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: Now, you are married, and you confirm that you're married, and your wife is also a councillor in the Newcastle Council?

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LAX: Just for the record, you may speak in Afrikaans if you so wish.  We do have an Afrikaans interpreter.  I know you told us that you prefer to speak in English at this stage, but just for the record's sake we'd like you just to be aware of that.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

MR LAX: Are your parents still alive?

WITNESS:   Only my mother.

MR LAX: Your mother.  And do you have brothers and sisters?

WITNESS:   I have.  I have a younger brother and a younger sister.

MR LAX: Do you have any children?

WITNESS:   Yes.  I have three children, a daughter of 10 and a son of six and one of - turning four.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Now, in July 1990, when these events commenced for you, you were in Johannesburg at that time, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LAX: And will you just tell us what you were doing at that time which might have led to your arrest and so on.  You were obviously involved in some political activities.  What were those?

WITNESS:   I was involved in what is termed right-wing politics.  I was involved in para-military - I was involved ... (intervention)

MR LAX: It will help you if you put the earphones on, then the translation won't interfere with your thinking and speaking.  (Pause)  All right, can you hear me now?

WITNESS:  Yes, now I can hear you.

MR LAX: Now you'll hear yourself, and what will happen is that the translation won't override your own voice because it's simultaneous, so it'll allow you to speak freely.  Thank you, you may continue.

WITNESS:   I was involved in para-military groups, and the political objectives we wished to achieve - I don't think I at this stage want to elaborate on that.  I would at a later stage elaborate more extensively on that in terms of indemnity or amnesty application. Thanks.  Now, if we can then move to July 1990.  If I read correctly from your statement you were arrested in Rosettenville, which is a suburb of Johannesburg.   ---  That's right.

MR LAX: At that time - take us through what happened to you from there onwards please.

WITNESS:   I was staying at a friend's house, and at about 4 o'clock in the morning we noticed that the house was being surrounded by a large contingency of police, and we could also hear a helicopter.  We rushed out of the back door and managed to get into the covers of the shadows and darkness, and we knew that the police were there to arrest us.  We were both armed, and we were in two minds whether we should shoot and fight our way out, because we felt that we had managed to fast enough move into this shade.  And in front of me there was one young policeman, and he was sitting looking in the wrong direction, pointing his rifle towards the house which we'd come out of.  And I knew that the only way that we could get away was if this policeman had to be shot.  But we were of the opinion - it was our belief that we were not at war with the police, that they were not part of the political structures, that they were supposed to be merely policemen.  I could not be part of such a thing, so we surrendered and we threw out our weapons.  We were then told to lie on the ground with our hands behind our heads, and I remember that as soon as we were on the ground the same policeman we had no intention of any form of aggression against viciously started to kick us while we were on the ground.

MR LAX: If I could just interrupt you there.  Who is the other person that was with you?

WITNESS:   His name is Darryl Stopforth.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Please continue.

WITNESS:   We were then arrested and told that we were being placed under section 29, the Internal Security Act, and we were then loaded into separate vehicles and taken to Sandton Police Station.  They didn't really speak to us much.  We were just held there until about 8 o'clock in the morning, or about half past eight in the morning, when we were taken to see a district surgeon.  He examined us and we went back to Sandton.

MR LAX: Do you remember who the district surgeon was?  Do you remember his name at all?

WITNESS:   No, I don't remember.

MR LAX: Where was his office?  Do you have any idea?

WITNESS:  It was in Johannesburg, central Johannesburg.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Carry on please.

WITNESS:   On arriving back at Sandton Police Station, at what they call the Security Branch, the whole situation changed.  I was screamed at, verbally abused, I was slapped around, I was punched, I was told to shut up, sit in a chair, then I was questioned.  When I answered the questions I was told that I was lying.  I was smacked again.  And this carried on to an extent where I actually jumped up off the chair and started fighting back.  Four, maybe five policemen viciously knocked me down, and they put me back on the chair and handcuffed my hands through the chair, which resulting that I could not get up.  I was then continuously smacked and punched, and despite the fact that I was co-operating, I did not have need to lie to them, this treatment carried on.  Later during the day I was taken to a farm in Krugersdorp, where I had undertaken to co-operate and point out where there were explosives.  They loaded me into a vehicle with three Security Branch members and they tied a jacket over my face, smothering me, and over that they pulled a Balaclava which was the wrong way round.  The whole time since that morning at 4 o'clock my hands were handcuffed behind my back and my feet were in leg irons.  We went - in that condition we went to Krugersdorp, where they removed the things from my face and I showed them what I came to point out.  When we were finished the policemen, two of them, proceeded - the one held me up and the other one proceeded hitting me in the stomach.

MR LAX: Who were these two policemen?

WITNESS:   The one's name was Sergeant Chris Lombard and the other one was Sergeant Eugene Pitout.

MR LAX: Where are they from?

WITNESS:   They're from - at that time they were stationed at Sandton Security Branch.

MR LAX: Please continue.  Sorry, just before you do, what were the things that you pointed out to them at that stage?