Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-07

MR LAX: Perhaps we can just clarify here because we've been using this word senior citizens, are you talking about prominent people or elderly people?   Let's maybe use those terms so that we don't confuse the issue.

MR KIECK: Yes I think there were a few prominent members of the community at the wine function that evening.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman and is your evidence that some of the people who were on the Golf Day which was organised by Mr Radie also participated in the wine tasting.

MR KIECK: That is correct - in fact quite a number of people that played golf - I would say almost half the members of the wine circle play golf.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yourself as you were a Captain what else are you doing other than being a Captain of the Golf Club?

MR KIECK: In my business world?  My business world I own a bottle store in King William's Town.

MR MBANDAZAYO: I hope you still remember me?

MR KIECK: I do very much, sir.

MR PRIOR: What do you have to hide Mr Mbandazayo?   No I'm just joking.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Well Mr Chairman, just for your benefit there was a strike, workers who are working at his bottle store so I was representing them - it's not..

MR LAX: I thought maybe you were a prominent patron there or something.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Is it true that also that as you indicated in the Committee that golf is an expensive sport and as such that was the reason why there were few blacks in that sport?

MR KIECK: Yes, it's not affordable to everybody, you know, golf is - if you're playing golf regularly you've got to be earning a reasonable amount of money because the cost of maintaining and belonging to the Golf Club is rather expensive.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Information was given here that there were cadres who were paid a certain amount, there was an agreement to pay them a certain amount for assisting.

MR KRIECK: Yes Mr Mbandazayo, I was Captain of the Golf Club, I became Captain in 1986.  This was my seventh year as Captain and I had Caddie Committee going so that they could look after themselves and we set a price and then we see that it's adhered to and according to Xundu when he carried the bag he only got paid 20 cents.  On the 5th October in '92 I had a meeting with the caddies, it was myself as Captain, Mr Dorrington as the President of the Club and Mr Max Stimelo who is a prominent black member of the club, where we sat down and discussed the increase and what we'd expect of them and what they want of us and that we did on a three/four times a year basis.

MR MBANDAZAYO: With the permission of the Committee thus EXHIBIT D of the Golf Club, especially I think it will be, Mr Chairman, Centenary, the one address 1892 - 1992 Centenary.  Now, Mr Chairman, ...[inaudible] Club, more caddies can apply to be rated.   Now those caddies who were paid this amount you agreed were caddies who were rated?

MR KIECK: No, no, all caddies were paid that amount, that was the minimum amount a member had to pay a caddie if he used a caddie.  We introduced another system where - to try and grade the caddies - so that in other parts you grade your caddie A, B and C and they get paid accordingly.  What we introduced was that once the caddies were graded, they would then be given a shirt with an Aloe on it which is the King William's Town emblem.  If they caddied a bag their tip would be extra, they were classed as A caddies and they were also entitled to use the course free of charge on the 1st and 3rd Tuesday of every month to give them a chance to practice.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Were you keeping any list of caddies who were?

MR KIECK: Yes there was a comprehensive list I can't supply to you at the moment but we always had a list of the caddies that were there.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Was it possible for any other person who is not in your list to participate there as a caddie?

MR KIECK: Oh yes, there wasn't you know that - if they wanted to come and bring a bag, Mr Xundu said he came along and said he was a student - the caddie committee would have let him do so, it was at their discretion.

MR MBANDAZAYO: So you can't dispute that because he was not in the list of the caddies that he was paid whatever amount that particular person deems it fit?

MR KIECK: No I can't dispute that he wasn't paid 20c but I couldn't believe that he could be paid 20c because no member at King William's Town would pay that kind of money, I mean quite honestly no caddie would take a bag for 20c.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Well, I think we'll believe him because he went there for a specific mission, he would take it - won't he?

MR KIECK: I don't believe anybody would take a bag for 20c.

MR MBANDAZAYO: I've no further questions Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

MR LAX: Any re-examination Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Not specifically, but this document has been referred to - this centenary celebration letterhead.  For what it's worth may it be handed up unless the Committee thinks it's not necessary?  But it certainly confirms what Mr Kieck has testified about.  It may also effect the probabilities in this matter.

MR LAX: The list of names that is copied here is that the same as D that we've already referred to?

MR PRIOR: Yes, Mr Chairman.   It's handed up the original script of Mr Kieck.

MR LAX: Okay we call this whole EXHIBIT D just for the record purposes which includes the list previously handed up.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.
ADV. GCABASHE: If you could just explain, Mr Kieck, the Caddie Committee, who comprised that committee?

MR KIECK: They elected their own committee, the caddies did, I had a meeting with all of them, I explained the position to them, they then elected their own committee which used to meet with me periodically.
ADV. GCABASHE: And it would have a manager, I don't know what he'd be called, the person who headed that committee, it would have somebody like that?

MR KIECK: That's correct yes.
ADV. GCABASHE: And a new person coming to the club would then talk to that particular person about becoming a member of the group of caddies?

MR KIECK: Ja, the caddies have their own structure, they more or less looked after themselves and if we had a problem we used to just call the committee and say listen we're having a problem in this area, you know they must address it and nine times out of ten it was addressed that way.
ADV. GCABASHE: So he's the person who would know all the caddies, the club membership wouldn't necessarily know who and who are not caddies?

MR KIECK: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: I take it from your list that when you wanted - from the form not the list sorry, the caddies were supposed to stay in the caddies enclosure - if you wanted a caddie you went to the caddies' enclosure?

MR KIECK: That's correct we had a caddie master who would then call and the committee would forward, you know, the caddie to carry the bag.
ADV. GCABASHE: Then a slightly different aspect, in your evidence in chief you talk about Mr Radie's booking.  Now would you know if he had a fixed booking or whether his was one of the short term bookings?

MR KIECK: I wouldn't know that offhand but I would imagine, you know, he would have booked a good few weeks in advance, be it a month or two months, that I'm not sure of.
ADV. GCABASHE: Then the final aspect, looking at some of these pictures, there are items of clothing that are depicted in a few, we can find them if we look through them and photo 25 is the jacket and I'll assume that's the jacket of one of the victims but you have other bits for instance photo number 50, I don't know if you can shed any light at all as to whose that might be, I'm just, there are a few of them that are in dotted places - number 52, 51 and 52 again there's an item of clothing.  Whose would these be?  Would you know?

MR KIECK: No, that was found outside, I'm not sure.
ADV. GCABASHE: You don't have a report or anything like that from the police about what they might have found there?