Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR PIGOU: And in your interview with John Carling you indicate that having been taken to Mrs Mandela's office you were confronted with the fact that you had given a statement in connection with Dlamini's death, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: With regard to Dlamini?

MR PIGOU: That's correct, yes.  Were you confronted by Mrs Mandela?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is correct.  Excuse me, at the time when we arrived at the offices she didn't ask me that, she didn't ask me but she just told me that this is what I have come for in the Mandela family and she started assaulting me.

MR PIGOU: Thank you.  After you had been assaulted and your throat had been cut by Mr Jerry Richardson, did you attend a public meeting on the 16th of January in Dobsonville where I believe members of the so-called Mandela Crisis Committee and community leaders - church leaders and so forth, were present and where we believe that - we are told that you related what happened to you, did that in fact happen?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I did.

MR PIGOU: I'd just like to go quickly to two different aspects - and I know I'm jumping backwards and forwards in terms of time period so you'll forgive me, but in your interview with Mr John Carling you talk about a Disciplinary Committee and you indicate that there was a register in which people's complaints were registered, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: And that those complaints were shown to Mrs Mandela and that Mrs Mandela chose which people were to be brought to the house or asked to come to the house, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: And that there was a Disciplinary Committee which was headed by I believe, Mr Sizwe Sithole and with other members Shoes and Mateo on that Committee, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That's true.

MR PIGOU: And that as a result of the decisions taken by that Committee, punishment was administered to guilty people or guilty parties by members of the football club, is that correct.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: And did Mrs Mandela participate in the Disciplinary Committee?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I wouldn't lie, I've never seen her assaulting anyone if a decision had been taken for one to be assaulted.

MR PIGOU: Did Mr Jerry Richardson participate?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: At that time Jerry Richardson wasn't there he was on and off, he used to come and go and I've never personally witnessed any incident in which Jerry Richardson was involved.

MR PIGOU: You've also spoken in this interview about a sort of internal Disciplinary Committee for members of the club and that there was some control put over club members that people were made to disclose where they were going, when they were expected to come back etc., is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That is true.

MR PIGOU: And if you didn't keep to the times or if you didn't actually disclose this information, that you could also be subject to physical assault in terms of discipline, is that correct.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: And were you personally Mr Ikaneng, were you beaten?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I was.

MR PIGOU: And who participated in those assaults?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Other members, core members.

MR PIGOU: Can you give us any names?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: As I've already counted some, Shoes, Bosmont, Mateo and it's quite a lot, even Jabu, Mazagaza, quite a number of them.

MR PIGOU: Thank you.  In  February 1989 in your evidence in trial you said that your brother Pete Ikaneng had come to warn you about a meeting that had taken place in which a decision had been taken to either fetch you or to kill you and Sibusiso ...[indistinct] Chili, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Dodo, not Ikaneng.

MR PIGOU: Was your brother Pete Ikaneng a member of the Mandela United Football Club?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No.

MR PIGOU: Never a member.  No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Semenya?

MR SEMENYA: Thank you Chairperson, Chairperson may I for the record state that we do not appear on behalf of Mrs Mandela Shlangwane - Zinzi, we're just placing that on record that we're not appearing for her.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, yes.

MR SEMENYA: We learn Sir, that even before the formation of the football team, you would highjack furniture trucks that came into the township, is that right?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, these were the things that happened during the period 1984 and '85.

MR SEMENYA: And at whose instance were you doing these things?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: You'll remember that during those times the struggle was very rife and any furniture vehicle or delivery van that used to get into the location would get burnt down, those were the times during which we did that.

CHAIRPERSON: You're not answering the question.  He's asking where you got the instructions from.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: The decision would be taken at a meeting of SOYCO in Orlando West.

MR SEMENYA: And these activities, did they stop when the football team was formed?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Was there a meeting where SOYCO decided not to stop the targets?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No.

MR SEMENYA: Did you witness the Mandela United Football Club play soccer?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Until what period did they continue playing soccer?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: When I came back from detention in 1987 we continued playing soccer until 1980 I think - sorry 1988.

MR SEMENYA: The attack on you, when was it?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: In '89.

MR SEMENYA: And you say you were attacked by the members of the football team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Why do you describe them as members of the football team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: When I decided to move away from the Mandela Football - from the Mandela yard, they still called themselves the Mandela Football Club.

MR SEMENYA: Is that the reason why you call them the Mandela Football Team?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: According to you, is this team - the Mandela Football team, still in existence?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Not now.

MR SEMENYA: Are you able to tell me when it stopped to exist?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I've no idea.

MR SEMENYA: Are you able to give us an impression maybe of when in your opinion it stopped to exist?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I've no idea.

MR SEMENYA: I have a statement that says
"It was dissolved in April/May of '87"

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That's not true.

MR SEMENYA: Did you see them play any soccer beyond April/May?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: As I've already explained, during '87 when I was released from detention we played some soccer during 1988 and as time went on we stopped playing because houses got burnt.

MR SEMENYA: Against whom did you play in 1988?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Many clubs.

MR SEMENYA: Can you give us examples of the teams which you played against in '88?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Could you please repeat your question?

MR SEMENYA: Are you able to give us names of teams you played against in 1988?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I don't remember but we used to play in Zlameni, Jabulani, Diep Soweto and Riverside - I don't remember the names of the clubs.

MR SEMENYA: Your allegation that Mrs Mandela assaulted you is incorrect, what is your response?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: It's true because I'm alleging that she assaulted me.

MR SEMENYA: No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  You have to help me, I was told there was a Miss Sita - you are Miss Sita?

MS HASSEN: Yes, Mr Chair, my name is Hasina Hassen and this Mrs Kalpana Sita, we are different individuals from the same firm.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm glad I was misled by the lady on my left.  Yes?