Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-15

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: Thank you.  Just, if anyone over here has any doubts about my training or about, for example the depression, then there could be some type of indication for example, and then I could hand letter in from the person I've been seeing about that.  For example, my counsel wouldn't be in a position to argue that later on, Mr Chairman, unless it's been brought to someone's attention.  So that's only for that reason that I mentioned it.
	As far as the NUMSA matter is concerned, Mr Chairman, it is so that at the time that I did this I did foresee that the idea would replicated in general, but in my amnesty application I can't ask specifically for amnesty for other matters because I don't, they're not within my personal knowledge, except that I am responsible insofar as the idea was replicated.  I just wanted to stress that, Mr Chairman.
	At one point there was a suggestion that the meal at MacRib had cost R250 and that's not so.  The R1 000 I mentioned and the R9 750 that was drawn, that R250 difference was not anything to do with a meal at MacRib.  It certainly was not a sumptuous meal at all, Mr Chairman, pertaining to the NUMSA matter.  
	Mr Chairman, the article in Mr Trengove's bundle, is an article in there by Mr Horak from the Mail and Guardian, concerning the NUMSA and those types of operations.  I'm not quite sure if that is a local newspaper, I think it may be a British newspaper.  The point being that I hadn't seen before anyway, before the start of this hearing.  Because we have a Mail and Guardian here and there's one in the UK as well.  I think this, that article was from the UK one, because as I understand it, Mr Horak at once stage skipped and went to the ANC in London and probably made the article there.
	As far as the forms for transfer into, for the untransacted or unintended transfer into Judy White's account, Mr Chairman, the Nedbank form that was filled in which was never intended by me for any such transfer, I can just confirm that that was the case and that most likely the date on the top right-hand side of the form was already entered onto the form before I took it out of my briefcase.  That is could have been the case, if one has a look at the fact that the numbers slant different ways.
	Then I'd just like to mention that as far as the R30 000 divorce settlement, Mr Chairman, I just want to reiterate that at no stage, although I would have been happy to pay it, at no stage was I under any obligation to pay any divorce settlement to Janine, quite the opposite in fact.  Even during the meeting with Mr Mendelow I already told him then, any such demands or requests by Janine were ridiculous.  So I just wanted to make that clear, Mr Chairman.
	In terms of the murder itself, Mr Chairman, it's been repeatedly suggested that I did that to save my own skin.  If I wanted to save my own skin, Mr Chairman, I could simply have joined the ANC, I could have sought political asylum in New Zealand ...(intervention)

MR RAUTENBACH: Again Mr Chairman, I have to come in here.  We are busy once again with argument.  I think the time has come for Mr Bellingan to decide whether he wants to do the argument and do it at the appropriate time of whether he wants to leave that to his counsel, but it is now happening over and over again.

MICHAEL BELLINGAN: These are things I was thinking about at the time, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, perhaps I, I think it is important - I've given the floor so to speak, to my client, the applicant, but perhaps if we could just for a few minutes have a break and I will just explain to him and then we can just cover the balance of what he wanted to say, in a manner which is more appropriate.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think so.  We want to give you every reasonable opportunity to present your case to us, but there are certain limits, technical limits, and that's why there are these objections.  Perhaps it was a good idea that we do take a brief adjournment just to allow Mr Hattingh to perhaps give you some guidance so that we don't have an unnecessary re-canvassing of issues.  We'll adjourn briefly, thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR HATTINGH: I explained to my client that he's not at this stage to lead any argument.  I would however that we conclude this part in a manner that we started.  And to the extent that any argument may perhaps slip through, I think my learned friends would then just indicate to the witness that he's not supposed to once again move into argument, and secondly, in the end it's not going to form part of the argument which will be submitted to this Committee and it will then just be left out altogether.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and he appears to be virtually through with the document in any event.  Go ahead, Mr Bellingan.  You are still under oath.