Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-23

MR MAY: Yes, I believe that they've done that, in fact they've taken that writing specimen with most of the political detainees in that period.

<UNKNOWN>: And is it your believe that the receipt was deliberately left at the place where it could be seen by your comrades therefore perpetuating the impression that you are receiving money from the security police?

MR MAY: Yes, I believe so they deliberately left that receipt so as to divide COSAS.

<UNKNOWN>: They couldn't deal with COSAS effectively by detaining us they knew that we have been detained, we have been through lot of tortures.  So in order for them to succeed in dividing us or confusing the public they must resort in other methods 
 Was this strategy and I hear you that the strike was aimed at dividing COSAS.  But are you in agreement that it could also have caused great harm to you, you could have been killed?

MR MAY: Yes, I - I believe that

<UNKNOWN>: And can you tell the Commission how you felt when it appeared that some of your best friends were accepting that you were an informer?

MR MAY: I was very humiliated and embarrassed because there were lot of other people young people, for example students who were looking at us as role models.  And so to hear that I mean some of these people they were regarded - that they regarded as role models were also working for the security police, it was really embarrassing and humiliating experience.

<UNKNOWN>: Were there times when you felt that you didn't want to continue been an activist as consequence thereof?

MR MAY: Yes, I decided not to take part to any political activity until this matter has been - at least proved to be incorrect

<UNKNOWN>: Has that impression in fact been disproved with the passage of time, or do you thing that there's still a need to investigate that further so that your name can be cleared if it is possible?

MR MAY: I feel that there should be further investigations into the matter and it should be exposed as police lies.

<UNKNOWN>: Ja thank you, now one final aspect that I want to cover, you mentioned Mthimkulu both in your testimony when being asked by my colleague, Mary Burton and in your statements.
 Now this Mthimkulu, you are referring to, are you referring to the gentleman who was called Siphiwo Mthimkulu?

MR MAY: Yes, I'm referring to him.

<UNKNOWN>: Is he the person who was arrested in Port Elizabeth and was severely tortured in detention?

MR MAY: Yes, that's him - I am referring to him.

<UNKNOWN>: Is he the gentleman who was released from hospital - I mean from prison but needed hospital treatment in Port Elizabeth?

MR MAY: Yes, I am  referring to him.

<UNKNOWN>: He was the person who was in very great pain and could not walk and was hypersensitive and hysterical you know that, don't you?

MR MAY: Yes, I do

<UNKNOWN>: And he is also the person who was transferred to Groote Schuur Hospital here in Cape Town, as a consequence of the pain that he received in prison.

MR MAY: Yes.

<UNKNOWN>: Is he the man that was diagnosed and was treated for thallium  poisoning?

MR MAY: That's right

<UNKNOWN>: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Any other - Denzil?

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson, just Mr May in regard to  Mr Mthimkulu, who was it that reminded you of the fate of what happened to Mr Mthimkulu?

MR MAY: It was Mr Roelofse of the security branch in Port Elizabeth.

ADV POTGIETER: In Port Elizabeth?

MR MAY: Yes

ADV POTGIETER: Was he - was he on his own when he reminded you of that?

MR MAY: No, there were some other guys I think there was Tongata and also Niewoudt as well he was in that group as well

ADV POTGIETER: And Tongata was also a - or might even still be, a member of the police?

MR MAY: Yes, he is one of the Security police guys in Port Elizabeth

ADV POTGIETER: And Niewoudt?

MR MAY: And Niewoudt as well

ADV POTGIETER: Did you - did you come to know these - these police people when you were down in Port Elizabeth?

MR MAY: Yes, I used to see them driving their cars around the townships.  I've seen them several - on several occasions and then also when they went to fetch me from home in Port Elizabeth

ADV POTGIETER: Have you - have you received or become aware of any lately - recently of any news of Niewoudt?

MR MAY: Yes, I'm following the proceedings

ADV POTGIETER: Which proceedings is that?

MR MAY: Like these statements that have been made on TV by Mr Mamasela who - who has been part of the Vlakplaas security network.  I was watching him on TV when he confessed that Niewoudt was beating- in fact was responsible for the beating of the PEBCO 3 who disappeared in the '80's

ADV POTGIETER: Have you got any knowledge whether Mr Niewoudt is presently on trial for any charges?

MR MAY: Yes, I'm following the fact that he is involve in another case in Port Elizabeth where some police members were bombed whilst they were driving a car, so he is involved in that case.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you  - just a regarding to the allegation that you were a police informer, was it also alleged that you were receiving money from the police at that stage?

MR MAY: Ja.

ADV POTGIETER: Was that a specific allegation against you, that was made against you.

MR MAY: Yes, see the reason why I'm here today is to definitely to spell that kind of allegation, I never received any moneys from the police.  If they claim to have given me some moneys it means they owe the public an explanation.
 Now, at this stage you were in Port Elizabeth if I understand your evidence correctly.

MR MAY: That's correct ja.

ADV POTGIETER: Now, what did you - what did you do after this rumor was spread against you, did you  have to leave there?

MR MAY: I, couldn't do anything because I didn't have the receipt to would be able to challenge this thing in Court.  So - and also I was also worried because of the fact that some of the COSAS members were disillusioned, and then  some of them joined other political organizations like AZAPO.
 So it - I was very much concerned with this kind of a rumor I didn't know how to deal with it.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you eventually leave Port Elizabeth?

MR MAY: No-no, I didn't I worked for the - after 1982,  I worked for SA Breweries, in 1983 and then also because of the conditions within the company I was part of the people who founded FAHWU within the company itself and also nationally because there was, in fact many unions were coming together on specific industries.
 So again whilst I was working for the breweries I think a personal officer in 1985 asked me how did I get employment om Port Elizabeth - in fact at the breweries because senior management were concerned of the activities of the union within the company and that there were there quite a number of activists who were employed and I was one of them.
 And they wanted him to explain how he employed us,  it was a black personnel officer.  But I explained to him that he was not the guy who employed me, I was employed by a white personnel officer so they should rather direct those questions to him not to the black guy.

ADV POTGIETER: Mr May, thank you very much.

MR MAY: Okay.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Chair, Mr May was there any discussion within COSAS about the fact that you were  being accused as an informer.  I'm trying to determine how you managed to escaped being killed because the communities were very definite about people who were identified as - or accused of being informers.  Was there a discussion within the organization about that - that receipt.

MR MAY: Yes there were some discussions within COSAS although some people wanted to believe it.  But I believe they had also in their mind that I couldn't possibly had been a police informer because they know my involvement in COSAS and how I suffered at the hands of the Security police.