Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-03-16

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, Mr Chairperson, Peaches Gordon and Isgak, just for the record, are people who stay in Cape Town and the Cape region was given to me, but at that stage when execution had to be given to the project of Mr Gavin Evans, neither Mr Botha or Mr Chap Maree had any unaware members or had access to the use of any unaware members, I was the only person at that stage who had already recruited unaware members and it was for this reason that I was asked by the Regional Manager to make Peaches Gordon and another person available to execute this project.

CHAIRPERSON: So do you know whether Peaches and that other person then went up to ...(intervention)

ABRAM VAN ZYL: They did, they definitely did.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh did they.  Thank you.

MR MARTINI: Chairperson, that was the testimony, they came up but the address was incorrect, so they cancelled the project.
	Now in respect of the Gavin Evans project, were you asked to formulate a plan to eliminate him?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, Mr Chairperson, there had already been a plan that was prepared.  I was told that an address would be given where Mr Evans would be residing and I was told that he would have to be stabbed with a knife so that it could look like a robbery.

MR MARTINI: In other words Mr van Zyl, the plan had already been prepared by somebody else, you were just instructed to carry out the plan, is that correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr van Zyl, you said in your evidence that these unaware people were used in high risk type operations and the aware operatives were used in low risk operations just so that in case they were caught then there wouldn't be any link to Special Forces.  Monitoring a person - forget about the elimination aspect, but just establishing whether a person is at an address, at a particular house in Johannesburg or wherever it is, or whether he works at a particular place, is there any risk involved in that?  Why bring two people all the way from Cape Town just to establish that the person's not at a given address?  Why didn't the operatives, the aware members themselves establish whether or not the person was at an address? It's a fairly easy sort of thing to do.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Mr Chairperson, I agree with what you are saying, but what I gave evidence to was that I had the two people come up to Jo'burg with the specific instructions and the specific intention that they would have to eliminate Gavin Evans, they were not brought up to Jo'burg to confirm his address.  I assumed and I accepted that when this address was given to me regarding the place where Evans stayed, that everything was already confirmed and that everything was already correct.  It was only after Peaches Gordon and the unknown person who accompanied him gave me feedback that the address was not applicable anymore, that he was not staying there anymore, that was the first time that I then reported it back to the Regional Manager, that was the first time that I became aware of the fact that the information that they gave to me was not applicable anymore.

MR MARTINI: In other words Mr van Zyl, you had no part in establishing the address of Mr Evans.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Not at all.

MR MARTINI: You had no part in formulating the plan to eliminate Mr Evans.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Not at all.

MR MARTINI: That was all prearranged by somebody else.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct.

MR MARTINI: Your only instruction was to arrange for operatives to carry out the plan.  In other words, to go to the address which you had been furnished and eliminate him.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR MARTINI: So Peaches and your other operative weren't brought out to go and monitor Mr Evans?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, not at all.

CHAIRPERSON: So in that period from 1986 through - at that period of time, that was in 1989, you were the only aware member of the CCB with unaware connections?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That I knew of, correct Chairperson.  Must I perhaps add "as far as I know and at my disposal."

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl, you did testify in the Barnard trial on the Dullah Omar incident, is that correct?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct.

MR MARTINI: After your evidence - let me put it this way, before testifying in that trial were you offered a 204 indemnity, so if you speak the truth you won't be prosecuted?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: That is correct.

MR MARTINI: And you testified at that trial on the Dullah Omar incident.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I did testify.

MR MARTINI: And were you given indemnity by the Presiding Judge?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Yes, by the Honourable Judge Els I was given indemnity.

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl, on the incident of the Early Learning Centre we heard Mr Williams stating that it maybe through an act of God that he's alive, was it your intention or your instruction to ensure that people were killed when that bomb went off?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, Chairperson, I've already testified that the whole purpose of that exercise was to render the whole hall obsolete so that it could not be used further by the organisation of the Kewtown Youth Movement.  There was never any intention to injure and/or kill anyone, it was specifically made as such and I requested as such during my presentation of this project, that it had to be detonated by a remote control and I deemed it necessary to accompany Isgak, so that loss of life or injury could be limited to a minimum.

MR MARTINI: Now Mr van Zyl you heard emotive language "kleuterskool", the bomb was placed at the "kleuterskool", what time did the bomb go off?  At approximately what time, do you recall?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: If I recall correctly it was approximately quarter to nine to nine o'clock.  I'm not exactly certain.

CHAIRPERSON: What day of the week was it, was it a weekend, a week day, can you recall?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: It was during the week, yes.

MR MARTINI: Now you were there, you said about 30 metres.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: Yes, it was probably a bit more than 30 metres, maybe about 60 metres away, but I was there, that is correct.  ...(transcriber's interpretation)

MR MARTINI: Did you see any kindergarten children or "kleuters" in the vicinity at the time?

ABRAM VAN ZYL: No, Chairperson, I did not see any children at that centre at that stage.  I would also like to mention that I was there personally, there were no vehicles in the parking area at the stage when the bomb was detonated.

CHAIRPERSON: This place, does it have a parking ground, a place that's meant to be a parking lot for people using the centre?  As opposed to just parking in the street.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: There was a small - when I say small, a parking area of approximately 60 square metres, that is the parking area that I refer to.  I do not know what the other people in the audience refer to.

CHAIRPERSON: But it would be - as far as you are concerned that place that you are speaking about, if any of us now had to go to the Early Learning Centre to visit there, would park there?  It would be he obvious place to park.

ABRAM VAN ZYL: I assume so, Chairperson.  That is the parking area, if I can call it, it would probably be on the western side of the building, yes, on the western side.

CHAIRPERSON: I was just wondering - I raised it sometime earlier about the nature of the premises, whether it's just a square hall or whether there are outbuildings, I was just wondering whether it's at all possible to, not to get a plan but just a rough sort-of drawing so that we can agree what it looks like where the car park is.

MR MARTINI: Chairperson, there are photographs annexed in the bundle at 254.  We were told - I'm not sure, we were told that photographs would be made available of the originals but not of the outside.  Possibly ...

MS COLERIDGE: We don't have pictures of the car park, Chairperson, but I could make the original available.