Special Hearings — Legal Hearings — 1997-10-27

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for a very inspirational submission. Now I'm sure Hanif does not have a question - do you have something, did you want to ask something Hanif?

MR VALLY: : Yes we have questions to ask Mr Chair. Do you want us to ask them?

CHAIRPERSON: I'm just a little concerned that now we have really only about 30 minutes for this panel discussion and I think, I mean that we really owe it to them to even 30 minutes .....

DULLAH OMAR: Chairperson if I may? I've been rather unfair to Hanif and the Commission by not providing him with the submission in advance. He's therefore at a disadvantage. I regard the work of this Commission as being so important that I'm quite prepared to come back at a time that you would have available Chairperson to answer whatever questions you require with regard to the submissions which I have made.

CHAIRPERSON: That I'm sure has disarmed him - but thank you very much for your generosity. One is aware that you work like many other people under very considerable pressure and to make that offer is a wonderful gesture. But thank you very much Mr Minister.
 I have a problem with people who do not wait for me to give them permission to clap. But yes that is very nice. Now the dear people over there, you have heard quite a few submissions and I saw you taking fairly copious notes and I don't know there are things about dereliction of duty, the accountability of the judiciary, apartheid as a crime against humanity, the death penalty, (...indistinct), and then the submissions by the Minister looking to the future and if I might say modestly the intervention of the Chairperson - I don't know whether you are going to be wanting - how you want to handle that. Whether we, oh you never tell me these things. But let me introduce you or you will introduce yourself. Maybe if you say who you are I will go down and then you can have them. Or as they speak. Okay he's suggesting that as you speak you then introduce yourself.

MR VALLY: Thank you Mr ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No the assumption is that you are going to speak, all of you.

MR VALLY: Thank you Arch. What we want to do is because of pressure of time try and restrict yourself to 5 minutes. If you have to go over, not more than 7 minutes. Please just identify yourself by name and your organisation. Only one person per organisation. I know Mr Trengove asked to go first but I think he's already left. We were too late for him. And we'll start off at the left and we'll go up the line. I was going to set the background but in view of time constraints I won't. I'm sure people have kept copious notes.

CHAIRPERSON: Hanif can you just find out whether it will be possible - an hour is that okay? If you see me walk out it won't be because I'm annoyed with what you are saying I've just got to catch a plane. Right you are, thank you.

MR VALLY: : Thanks. As I was saying I was going to set the scene but I'm sure everyone's got their notes and know what they want to say. So we can without further ado start off with the Association of Law Societies.

MR COETSER: Your left would be our right, so we start here?

MR VALLY: : Exactly.

MR COETSER: : My name is Nico Coetser and I represent the Association of Law Societies. And the truth is that some of us do need a break even if it's only for two minutes now.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought I had given you the break but I mean this being a free and democratic country, yes have the break.

CHAIRPERSON: We don't want accidents, let's have that break yes. Five minutes.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

YASMINE SOOKA: ...with a number of the panellists, there is a suggestion that it's rather unfair to expect people to comment when they've been presented with a fifty page submission today and they need to take time to consider what their responses should be. So I'm going to ask those of you who are presenting tomorrow to perhaps consider if you would rather like to respond whilst you are doing your submission tomorrow.
 However there are a number of groupings such as the Human Rights Commission, the magistracy who in fact are not making submissions and I would ask then if you are going to make a comment today that you try and limit that to 5 minutes and perhaps at the end of the third day you could make a fuller presentation on your own evaluation and responses to some of the issues raised. 
 I'm going to go back to the gentleman on I think my right-hand side of the Association of Law Societies and ask you to proceed please. We are suggesting that as people speak they could perhaps indicate what their names are and the organisations they representing.

MR COETSER: I'm Nico Coetser, representing the Association of Law Societies. Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Mr Coetser. Do you want to make a comment today or would you hold that for your submission tomorrow?

MR COETSER: : Unfortunately I won't be able to be here tomorrow ...

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you please just switch the red button on, your mike on.