Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I'm not sure that he would have been alive at that time.

MR PRIOR: Do you know why Mr Letlapa Mphahlele took his revolver and shot him in the head at that time, do you know why?  Did you know why he did that?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No, I don't know the reason.

MR PRIOR: When you were satisfied that he was dead, you then burned out the vehicle, is that right?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes, that's right.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't want to shoot him, did you?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: How, Mr Chairperson?

CHAIRPERSON: I'm asking you, is it true that you didn't want to shoot him, or did you want to shoot him?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I can't say I did not want to shoot him, because I've already shot at the others.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm reading from your own application for amnesty, do you remember what you said there?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Page 11, this is a traumatic part to myself
"We found this guy sitting.  Letlapa asked us why it seems as if we do not want to kill these people.  I was ordered to shoot him.  As the first clause in APLA code of conduct states, obey orders in all your actions.  Honourable Commissioners, I regret to say that I shot the person and Letlapa finished him with a 38 pistol, shooting him in the head."
Is that true so far?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You say here, "I regret to say that I shot the person", did you regret it?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes, as I've already said that if you kill a person, you do have feeling, but you have killed a person.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you say that you're being a pacifist and this act, you had to do it, as you had no alternative as the situation prevailed at that time.  If you did not, you hope anything would have been possible.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: But you are making the case there that you were unwilling to do what you did, but you were ordered to do so.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: That is your own interpretation, but I don't think I was sending that message.

MR PRIOR: Well, what did you try and tell us when you wrote those words in this application?  What were you trying to say to us?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Everybody if you kill a person you do have that feeling that you have killed a person.  And firstly the thing that we have killed people, we were not born as killers, but the oppressors forced us to do these acts and all of us, the Africans, we are a very peaceful nation.  But these people forced us and we ended up being killers.  When I'm saying that the consequence, I'm referring to the fact that this thing will torment me for the rest of my life, because I would have betrayed my conscience and my protocol confession.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.  When the vehicle went past you did you notice that there was a black man, black person, in the rear of the vehicle in the passenger, rear seat passenger?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No, I did not notice.

MR PRIOR: You noticed that when he alighted from the vehicle and was running away?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes.

MR PRIOR: You never shot at him?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No.

MR PRIOR: We know now that Mr Smit worked at Frasers at that time, it now became Score Furnishers, but he was the manager of the furniture store in Sterkspruit and the other two gentlemen were also working there, Mr Franzsen and Mr Maartens.  Mr Franzsen also worked at the furniture's and Mr Ben Maliehe was also working at the furniture's.  You never knew that?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, just before that, before that incident when you shot at the Corolla 16 valve, I seem to recall you saying there were other vehicles that had - one vehicle or more vehicles had gone past before the shooting had occurred.  Is that correct?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I think there were cars, if I remember well.

MR PRIOR: Do you know why these cars weren't attacked or shot at?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No I don't know.

MR PRIOR: And can you help us, were these cars driven by white people or black people, or can't you say?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: What I'm trying to say it that there was not much hope to look at the cars or who was driving the car.

MR PRIOR: You said that you were staying at Jozannas Hoek is that right - at the time of this operation?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Jozannas Neck.

MR PRIOR: In who's house were you staying at?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I was staying alone, there was no one else.  I was doing everything for myself.

MR PRIOR: Where there no other members of APLA at that house?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No.

MR PRIOR: And Ben, where was he staying at that time?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I don't know were they were staying, because I was placed in that area.  I don't know were they were staying.

MR PRIOR: Can I just ask you this question?  Did you ever go to Johannas Hoek - Jozannas Hoek, sorry, during that period, that is March of '92?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I did not go to Jozannas Hoek.  My instruction was that, when I was going out, I was going out following the instructions.

MR PRIOR: So, you've said to us that you were staying alone at this house, at Jozannas Neck, but you still haven't answered the question about whose house it was.  Whose house was it that you were staying in - whose woozy or kraal or whatever?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I said that I was placed in that house, there was no one there when I got there.  It was one house.

MR PRIOR: So, you don't know who owned that house?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: No, I don't know the owner.  I was not interested in knowing the owner of the house.

MR PRIOR: Who pointed out that place for you to stay at?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Comrade Mphahlele.

MR PRIOR: That was the only operation you carried out in that area, Sterkspruit-Zastron area?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Yes, that was the only operation, except for the farm.

MR PRIOR: I just want to - did you have any knowledge at that time that there was a unit in Jozannas Hoek?  We heard evidence last week and earlier on that Martin Phila Dolo had a unit in Jozannas Hoek.  Were you aware that close by to you there was a APLA unit?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: This is like this, I did not know that, but I knew that there were Africans around that area.

MR PRIOR: You were just deployed, it would seem to me from your evidence, for this one operation, and you were given the R5 rifle.  Were you particularly expert with that weapon?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: As I've already said one African, his rule was to drive.  He was not trained to use a weapon.  The other Comrade was internally trained.  I was given an R5 because I was familiar with it, because I was coming from outside.

MR PRIOR: I just want to know I maybe used the wrong word "expert", but were you fairly competent at using that R5 rifle?  I mean were you able to shoot accurately, was that - I mean there must have been a reason why Mr Letlapa gave you the R5, and not anyone else.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: The reason is what I've already told you, that one Comrade was internally trained.  As I was familiar, because I was coming from outside, maybe that was the reason for them to give me this weapon because it was a powerful weapon.

MR PRIOR: Can you tell us what your code-name was, or your chimirenga name was?
	Sorry, we didn't hear the interpretation.  Please repeat what your chimirenga name was.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Mtami.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.

ADV SANDI: Did you have any other code-name, Mr Gqomfa?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: There were a lot of names, some would call me Bruce, Zuko.

MR PRIOR: ...(inaudible) Bruce and Zuko, those were other ones you mentioned.  What else, any others?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: That's all.