Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-13

MOOSA MOOSA: Many economists in the United States believe that anti trust laws make an important contribution to economic health and American leadership in the world economy.
 Mr Chairman, in this regard, so that I can begin to terminate my delivery, what I am saying is, that we ask the Government and we recommend this to the Truth Commission that urgent steps be made to prorogate anti trust laws which encompass anti monopoly provisions.
 Lastly, Mr Chairman, when one looks at the situation as it stands now, I would like to advance the request that a anti - a monopolist commission be constituted so that the issues that I've talked about and has been deliberated over the last few days, can be investigated and addresses in a manner which will bring about a just end.
 Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Moosa.  Dr Ally?

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Moosa, over the past two days there have been recommendations by certain individuals, also certain organisations on the question of how to address some of these inequities and injustice from the past.
 Calls for wealth tax, the issues of the debt and not necessarily, we're not abandoning the payment of the debt, but looking at other ways how this could be dealt with, because of the way in which - because of the fact that this money was used to finance and strengthen the Apartheid State.
 Other than the recommendation that you have made now on the question of monopolies;  what were you views and so on on some of those proposal that you put forward?

MOOSA MOOSA: Mr Chairman, some of the suggestions that I have crystallised, I in fact present in my submission.  You understandably curtailed me at quite a crucial moment, but I've tried my best to summarise it.
 To answer that question, I just want to say that I think that the representations made by Prof Sampie Terblanche in the last two days, I believe merits serious consideration.  That's certainly a very strong view I have having reflected on it.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was this the call for a wealth tax?

MOOSA MOOSA: Yes.  Yes, Mr Chairman.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this wealth tax, if you recall, Prof Terblanche actually spoke about it as the assets of all those people, more than two million rand.  He didn't make this restrictive to White business or to White people.
 So is it in an entirety that you support that recommendation?

MOOSA MOOSA: Mr Chairman, yes, I thought about that and I will answer that adequately.  On the one hand I can say that even though there were those that suffered under the system, one is not suggesting that as a result everybody was in poverty.  There are many, even among those of the disadvantaged and dispossessed, would fall within the definition.
 I believe in the spirit of nation building, in the spirit of the reconciliation we've tried to address and bearing in mind the words of our deputy president resent days of his concerns about - if this issue is not addressed properly what could be the consequences.  
 I believe, yes, I would agreed that it will apply to anybody and everybody.

RUSSELL ALLY: In your submission you indicate that there is a legal case still taking place between yourself in Ster Kinekor.  Is that correct?

MOOSA MOOSA: Mr Chairman, it is not a legal case.  The matter is in the hands of the board and the Minister.  Ster Kinekor as you might know, has now been sold to Primedia.  This why I said, formerly a subsidiary of SANLAM and Old Mutual, because those, that interest does not lie any more.  It's now in the hands of Primedia.
 The matter is at present on the desk of the competition board and the Minister.  It is not at this point certainly an issue of legality.  In other words, we're not in legal - we haven't joined issue.  There is an endeavour towards some kind of an amicable resolution to the problem.  
 Of course if that cannot be achieved then it will depend on how the Minister acts.  It will really be determined by the Minister of Trade and Industry.  So, we're not in litigation, if that's what you're concerned about.  We're not engaged in litigation.
 That may arise down the road, but certainly not at this stage.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much, Mr Moosa.  I think that probably one of the most startling things in your submission, certainly for me, was when you point at that even although the Apartheid system was - part of it based on this idea of group areas and that within those group areas the business is supposed to be reserved for the particular group to which the group area has been designated, but even within their own system, the greed I suppose of business undermines the very logic and rational of Apartheid.
 So that even in an area designated for Indians, Indians are not allowed to own the complexes established, but White business.  I think that actually was a very important part of the submission.
 Thanks very much.

MOOSA MOOSA: Mr Burg, your permission if I may just amplify the last point made by your learned colleague there.
 When I used my example as merely because I had to confine it to the subject I had dealt with, but I must tell you that this applied even in the African Black areas.  The same situation in my industry and I would imagine other industries as well.
 So it wasn't even unique to - I just used the Indian area example, because this was a real case history.  This has happened rapidly otherwise as well.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: No further questions?  Mr Moosa, thank you very much.  I hope you listened to my regret at the beginning that we haven't been able to give more time to groups presenting as well as groups who are not here.
 So I accept again your point that I cut you off at that - at different point of your submission.

MOOSA MOOSA: Mr Chairman, I shan't join issue with you on that, but I must say that I have since the slight feeling of disappointment that I've been here for the last three days and I have not experience any other grouping cut off and I found it a bit disappointing.
DEVELOPMENT BANK OF SOUTH AFRICA:  PRESENTATION

CHAIRPERSON: The Development Bank of South Africa, please.  Dr Goldin, good morning and welcome.  Are you going to be by yourself?  It's very brave.  A new boy in the block and taking all the responsibility.
 Mr Golden - Dr Goldin we of course read your very lengthy submission.  It goes into, if I remember rightly, almost 40, 50 pages.
 Thank you very much for the work that's gone into that.  I would like you please to try and stick within the time.  I'll try not to interrupt as you're finishing your most important point, but if I have to, I will.

RUSSELL ALLY: The oath or the affirmation?

DR GOLDIN: The oath.

RUSSELL ALLY: The oath.

DR GOLDIN: (Duly sworn in, states).

RUSSELL ALLY: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: You may begin.

DR GOLDIN: Honourable Chairperson, Commission and ladies and gentlemen.  I'm the chief executive of the Development Bank of Southern Africa  ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Ian?