Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-04-29

DR BORAINE: We invite Mr Gerald Thebe to the stage please.  Mr Thebe welcome to the Commission.  Just for the record can you hear my voice in the ear phone, can you hear the translation?

GERALD THEBE: Yes I hear them well.

DR BORAINE: Fine.  Thank you very much.  Are you comfortable and relaxed?

GERALD THEBE: Yes I am relaxed.

DR BORAINE: That's very good.  That's we would like to happen here and it's your opportunity to tell your story and we want you to be very relaxed.  But before you relax too much I want you to please stand for the taking of the oath.

GERALD THEBE: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Mr Thebe you will know better than most the turmoil that gripped the country in 1976 in particular and of course the years that followed.  And in particular you will recall what happened to you in 1977.  It's not a very nice story.  It will bring back many bad memories for you, but it's our view that in the telling of this story two things could happen.  One, it could help you a great deal to share that, and secondly, we could all work harder to make sure that it doesn't happen again.  Now Dr Faizal Randera is going to be working with you as you tell your story and I am going to hand over to him now.
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DR RANDERA: Gerald welcome.  I know it's been a long day already for you.  I am sure, like many of us here today the stories that you have heard have brought back many memories.  I would appreciate it if by starting you would just tell us what you are doing now, where you are living and then go back to that period in 1977, the story that you are going to tell us.  Also what you were doing before that day when you were arrested.

GERALD THEBE: I stay in Pretoria.  At the moment I am staying with my sister.  My sister stays in Mamelodi 1341.  The telephone number is 8011554.  She took me in Attridgeville to stay with her because I am attending treatment.  I take tablets every day and I get injections regularly.  I go for treatment every month and I take tablets every day.  Here are these tablets, I have got them with me.

CHAIRPERSON: Order, order.

GERALD THEBE: I attend psychiatric treatment.  They give me tablets and I get injections.  So my sister decided to ask me to live with her so that she can look after me.
 In 1977 I joined the ANC.  I left in July with Frans Muchacha who lives in 27 Mangena.  He was doing form five at that stage.  We left together.  We left to Northern Cape at Vryburg.  We went to address the students of the South African Student Movement that they must join ANC and leave the country and go abroad, go and be trained as soldiers.  Therefore I was wanted at Northern Cape because I addressed students at Kanyisa Taung and saw police arrest students and then we ran away from the Northern Cape and came back to Attridgeville.  
 The mistake that we made we had given the students our address in Attridgeville, we were staying at no.10 Nkomo but JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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I wasn't staying at home.  When I arrived in Pretoria I heard that I was wanted.  I went to Johannesburg Ketihladi at my uncle's place and I followed events there to find out how (...indistinct).  I heard people saying the police were there looking for me.  When I came back I heard that they had already been in Johannesburg as well.  So we decided to organise a meeting at Naledi and we decided that we were wanted by police we had better skip the country.  We arrange to go with, together with the Thebe brothers.  They call them Thebe brothers in our court case hearing and also Joseph.  We took a train to Mafikeng and in Mafikeng we took taxis to Masutlhi at the border.  When we arrived at Masutlhi we saw the soldiers on the border gate.  We stayed there at the border gate.  Somebody approached us and said what are you doing here?  We told him we want to skip the country.  He said wait here let me just look around the area and see if the coast is clear for you, in the meantime he had gone to inform the police.  When the police came I ran away and the arrested the other two, but eventually they arrested me at eight.
 When I arrived at Mafikeng I was interrogated the whole night and at eight o'clock they left me.  They took me to the van and they were escorting the van.  This van was full of bloody clothes.  I think they were from the other two brothers that they had been interrogating because those clothes were full of blood, and I was taken to the cell by one o'clock.  In the evening we were interrogated again.  We stayed about three weeks in Masutlhi.  They use to tie me to the chairs and they were kicking me in my stomach, hitting me with metal irons. For three weeks were being interrogated.  After that they took us to Rustenberg.  In 
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Rustenberg we were also being interrogated and again they took us to Pretoria to Mafikeng.  They took us from Mafikeng and sent us to Rustenberg again.  From Rustenberg we came to Compol building.  I was interrogated there until 1978.  The other one went to the mental hospital immediately.
 But before that they took me to the mental hospital because I was also dizzy.  I was unconscious. When I woke up I was at the hospital.  The doctor told me that if you were being interrogated there you can die at any time.  From Mafikeng they took us to the Compol building.  At the Compol building we stayed for two weeks without interrogating us and then they came after two weeks and started interrogating us again. Thebe, and even now he's still mentally disturbed after that.
 In 1978 we were charged. In 1978 when we appeared in court I was defended by Soggot and Eric Dale and that was the counsel.  I still have their addresses and their telephone numbers.  When we were in court the lawyer requested that I be taken to the mental hospital and I refused to go to the mental hospital.  I said I had a problem that when I got to the hospital those guys were very vicious with us.  
 On the 24th of August I was sentenced to five years.  They took me from Pretoria Newlock and took me to Leeuwkop.  At Leeuwkop I stayed there for two weeks.  I met people from South West and Port Elizabeth and they sent us to Robben Island.  By the time I arrived at Robben Island I was affected by nerves.  I was attending the doctor's treatment by Dr Neko(?).  I stayed there in 1978 to 1982 on Robben Island.  They released me in 1982.
 When I was released from Robben Island I stayed for two JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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weeks and I was sent to the mental hospital for two months.  I stayed for two months at the mental hospital.  They released me from the mental hospital but since then I have been taking tablets.  At the moment I cannot work and I am unable to work and I've got a child but I am not married to the mother of the child.
 Sir I am requesting that those people who harmed me, who damaged me, must help to support me so that I can support my child and take him to school, and get medical aid because I am not healthy, because at any time I am sick and I am not healthy.
 I am also asking for Joseph Thebe, what can we do about Joseph Thebe because up until now he is still ill, he is still mentally disturbed.  So I was just requesting you to take up this case.  I don't know what you can do about it.

DR RANDERA: I just want to ask you a few more questions before I hand you over to Mr Boraine and the other Commissioners.  Can you tell us how old you were when you were on your way to join the ANC?

GERALD THEBE: I was 19 years old at that time.

DR RANDERA: You mentioned three police stations in your statement, Mafikeng being one, Rustenberg and Newlock Prison in Pretoria as well as the Compol buildings, can you remember the names of any of the policemen involved?

GERALD THEBE: I remember only one policeman Archie (...indistinct).  He was one who was in charge of us.