Special Hearings — Media Hearings — UNKNOWN

MARY BURTON: Thank you Chairperson.  I think we would like to  thank you for a very positive picture of the way that the company is structured now and its plans for the present and the future and, as Mr Wilson said, it is a way of responding to the past, but, as you know, it is part of our task to look at those years which are, the TRC's mandate, and to make sure that we remember what happened there.  So, what I would like to say, and it is not really so much in the form of a question although you may wish to respond, is what I would also have wished to say to the TML representatives if I had not feared the wrath of the Chairperson and that is really to look at the way in which the public was deprived of information during those years.	At the Commission we are often, often told by members of the public, you are having such a terrible time and to think that we did not know what was going on.  Well, now you can guess that those comments come from, largely, white English speaking people.  So, there are, they would have been the readership of that sector of the media and that is a heavy responsibility to carry, that there was a role there to inform that public who might, one can always say people do not read what they do not want to read, but nevertheless, there a number of people who were able to say they did not know what was going on, is too great for this country to bear.  Change might have come quicker if people had really been conscious of what was happening.	It is important, I think, for us to try and work out the balance between the commercial interests and the power of the advertisers and the body of the readership that the newspapers served.  Even now, as we have done our work, perhaps, much more in small rural towns, we have found that some of those small newspapers have not wanted to talk about the TRC and its work in those towns, because their advertisers will not like it.  So, one has to keep that balance, I think, as we look into the future, very, under a very tight reign.	The other thing that I would like to say arising directly out of the Commission's work is that our corroboration teams go back to look at those newspapers of the period for evidence of the testimonies that will corroborate the testimonies that people make to us.  It has extraordinary to be reminded, again, of the little unrest monitoring boxes that the newspapers published citing the daily events and at the beginning of the State of Emergency they often appeared on the front page and gradually, as the months wore on, they tended to move further and further back into the newspaper.  So, it was not a question of the fact that that could not be published, inadequate as it was, but it was not the news that the public wanted to read.  	We do have to recognise that, maybe, we all have a responsibility, that our newspapers are needed by our public and they do have a responsibility to give us the information that we, as the reading public, have to have.  So, I think it is very positive that you take that into account in your submission and refer to it and I really regard the new plans that you have as a way, the past cannot be undone, so this is a way of responding to that and I would just like to acknowledge that.  Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mkhize?

UNKNOWN: I have been looking at your document, especially from page 52, where you talk to conclusions, saying it is well prepared, making it almost difficult for us to raise issues of concern.  Having said that, I would say, on paper, as it stands there, under the conclusions, it is impressive.  We have heard people especially from the Black Journalists Forum and some unions arguing for space for them, mainly because of their experiences, they have reached a point where they think, it is like having doubt that established media forums in South Africa can be of any help and we were trying to say to them, look, maybe we need to look at ways of exploring existing resources in this country and see how they can be utilised in the betterment of all journalists, irrespective of colour and, also, making sure that print media, for instance, is not tailored for a white middle class community or this class, but for the people of South Africa.  I would like  your views on that.

IVAN FALLON: Would you like to respond, Shaun?

SHAUN JOHNSON: Thank you, I think we are very mindful of those issues, particularly as people who are newly in leadership positions in this company come from quite a range of backgrounds and, certainly, as far as Moegsien and myself are concerned, a background that included the experience of the, eventually, rather unsuccessful Independent Media Diversity Trust, the Swedish model that was looked at very closely by Comptask and all of those issues.  So, I think that they remain very high up as a priority.  Certainly, we as a company, are looking very hard and have been in the last couple of months since the new leadership in the form of Ivan Fallon took over, as to how we serve what we call the publics of South Africa and where the gaps are.  	I am happy to say, that subject to a lot of homework still to be done, we are looking at launching more newspapers ourselves as Independent Newspapers to address communities that we think we are not dealing with properly at the moment, but beyond what we do ourselves, I think that it is the genuine attitude of this company, the diversity is good for the country, diversity is good for the industry, diversity is good for us and we would like to participate, genuinely and sincerely, as much as possible.  Moegsien and I have talked about it at great length.  	The one area in which we have clear resources is in training.  Rory referred, for example, to the Nieman initiative that was last year, significantly, it was not confined to Independent Newspapers journalists, but broadly to try and increase the standards as much as possible, but I think that there is, without speaking with the authority of my colleagues, but that there is the time and the space in the country now for serious discussions around how the existing institutions which are very, very important and others can talk about co-operating in terms of increasing diversity.  So, I think the time is right and the attitude is right.

CHAIRPERSON: Hugh Lewin?

MR LEWIN: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Again, it is very much a question of asking for some guidance on questions which we have which might fall outside of your particular experience, but they are questions relating specifically to your submission and to Independent Papers. If I could ask, there is a rather peculiar statement on page 54 which is very much domain to our, to what we are looking at, it is point 15.  It says,		"A major problem in accessing culpability on human rights abuses arises from different agendas of liberal journalists as opposed to liberationists."Do you think you could somehow explain that?

IVAN FALLON: Moegsien.

MOEGSIEN WILLIAMS: First read it properly.  It is difficult to respond to that one.

MR LEWIN: I mean our problem is that it is making this link, as put earlier, that all the white press was colluding with apartheid.  Taking that statement and then trying to link it with the fact that our brief is quite specifically to look at the committing of human rights abuses and the role played by the media generally, but this, I think it is one of the few references in the whole report to human rights abuses.  So, I thought you might be able to explain it.