Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is exactly the point that I would like to make. That is why you gathered in the Western Transvaal and you specifically were called together to protect that area as well as to protect the farmers who lived in that area.

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson we were a large number of people who were called up for the protection of the Western Transvaal. I do not know where the people gathered but according to my knowledge we would go to Ventersdorp and the rest of the people would be called up in the rest of the Western Transvaal.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But the Western Transvaal the AWB divided into parts and groups were sent to protect the certain areas or parts and you were there to do protection in this area close to the game farm.

J P NEL: In that area as well as in areas where the Wen Kommando could not cope with it.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is now my following point. If the Wen Kommando could not be able to handle the situation you at the game farm you are Ystergarde you would then assist them. Is that correct?

J P NEL: Yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Paragraph 23 why did the theft of four by four vehicles, why didn't you succeed in that?

J P NEL: We went out that evening. We went to Klerksdorp. Jannie Kruger knew the area. He identified a garage and the people who went in first came back and from there we drove back to the camp. I do not know why it did not take place at the end of the day because they immediately said that we must retreat.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So you used the word things went wrong so you cannot say why?

J P NEL: Yes we did retreat there.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That Sunday evening that was when you were tasked regarding the pipe bombs?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: After you received this task did you remain the evening at the game farm and the next morning you went to Pretoria?

J P NEL: That is correct yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: You could not continue with the planting of the bomb. You then went to friends where you remained the day?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: What did you do during that day?

J P NEL: The morning we ate and from there we left. I got false number plates at a place and we waited for it.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: I assume that you were the whole day there?

J P NEL: Yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Did you watch television?

J P NEL: No we did not. There wasn't a television.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Did you listen to the radio?

J P NEL: No not at all. We sat in the car and I think at one stage I went to go and sleep as well.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So you did not follow the elections or the happenings or whatever? You did not discuss that?

J P NEL: No not at all.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: What time did you plant this bomb approximately?

J P NEL: It was approximately eight 'o clock that evening.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And during that day because I accept that you probably arrived in Pretoria early that morning?

J P NEL: Yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: The whole day did you in any way try and make contact with head office in Ventersdorp to say people there are problems. We cannot execute our order. We are going to be here longer than we thought?

J P NEL: No Mr Chairperson because my instruction was that we have to detonate the bomb and I waited for an opportunity to go and detonate it. I did not contact the head office because my direct commander was at the game farm and he gave me instructions there.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But the game farm was in radio contact with the head office?

J P NEL: Yes that is correct.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: So if you wanted to inform them that there is a problem you could have done it?

J P NEL: I did not know if the radio connection worked at all times.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But you also did not try and find out?

J P NEL: No I did not.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: After you ignited the pipe bomb you left to a resort at the Hartebeespoort dam?

J P NEL: That is correct yes Mr Chairperson.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Why did you have time now to go to a resort?

J P NEL: The same people who we stayed at in the flat that day said that they will leave and go there and from Pretoria we drove there and I first went around to go and visit them.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: To do what? You are busy with a war if I understand the applicants' testimony.

J P NEL: Mr Chairperson some of the people they were two blind men and I was quite good friends with them and they asked us that evening. They did not know what we were doing and they said that if we return that evening they asked if we could just go around at their place.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: And so the whole day you spent with them?

J P NEL: No they were not there the whole day.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: That is the impression that was created. You go and plant your bomb and you socialise at a resort at the Hartebeespoort dam.

J P NEL: That was early the morning we arrived there at the flat and we ate there and a while later they left. They gave the flat to me to spend time there. I did not give them any reason I just asked them if we could stay over and they said yes. And I asked for the number plates. After we had received the number plates we waited till it had become dark and then we drove and detonated the bomb.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: But at the resort you stayed there till three 'o clock the morning?

J P NEL: Yes.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Sir I put it to you that is not a war situation.

J P NEL: Sir the circumstances in which we were when we went to the resort was for me was something different. I went to go to friends and we visited there. And now suddenly if you leave there in a hurry or do something wrong they would like to know why can't you sit still.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Did you only talk that evening, no drinks taken, nothing of that sort?  ...[transcriber's own translation]

J P NEL: We didn't drink at all no. We sang Boer songs.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel after the operation who did you have to report to?

J P NEL: I would have reported back to Commandant du Plessis, the person who gave me the instruction Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You are now on operation you go and plant the bomb. It is a war situation and it was controlled from a head office or from a farm. Why didn't you think it good to go straight back and to report back whether you had a success or whether it was a failure?

J P NEL: Chairperson after we detonated the bomb I thought of the people whom I said I will go and visit them so I drove there. I cannot explain to you why I didn't go back to head office.

CHAIRPERSON: Why didn't you go back - did you go back and report to du Plessis?

J P NEL: When I got back at the game farm du Plessis wasn't there. They were already busy with preparations to leave for the shooting range in Rustenburg.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever report back to him that you have planted the bomb and what the consequences of it was?

J P NEL: When I got into the hall - when we walked into the hall me and Fourie, this is now after we returned Major Smit shouted very loudly in this hall. Sorry my language his words were: "Where are you now coming from?" And everybody in the hall heard that. It wasn't necessary for me to report back.

CHAIRPERSON: In a war situation I am not surprised he shouted at you. How did you explain it to him?

J P NEL: That was his attitude at all times Major Smit's that is. He always gave threats that he is going to shoot you and that you cannot turn back and that you had to complete your instructions.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you explain? What did you say where did you come from?

J P NEL: He knew I was on a mission because he was there when everybody was issued with their missions.

CHAIRPERSON: That is my point.