Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-20

CHAIRPERSON: Would, that would be on the left hand side of the road going towards Sterkspruit?

MR PRIOR: No, the right hand side of the road.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is the wear Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Chairperson, you can see it quite clearly as there is a solid line to the right of the bridge on that photograph.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the weir?

MR PRIOR: Yes.  Mr Chairman if one looks at page 20 of the new bundle, those bundled "B", the second photograph marked 4(a), one has a better picture of what the ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Is that what one sees in paragraph 17.

MR PRIOR: Yes, Mr Chairman.  There seems to be quite a drop from that position.  The weir one sees on the right hand side of the photograph at page 20.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Mbandazayo are you ready to start?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, thank you Mr Chairman, we are ready to start, Mr Chairman.  May the applicant, Phila Martin Dolo be sworn in?

MR SIBANYONI: Okay, just to start off with one practical point, channel 2 will be English and channel 3 will be Xhosa.  So can you assist Mr Mbandazayo to make sure that he is on channel 3.  Channel 4 will be Sesotho.   I understand Mr Mbandazayo, your client is Xhosa speaking, am I correct?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, that is correct.  And he's on channel 3, he is already on channel 3, Mr Chairman.

MR SIBANYONI: We will now swear him in.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: (Duly sworn in)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Dolo, do you confirm that this affidavit which is before the Committee has been made by you and you abide by its contents?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, as usual, Mr Chairman, I want, I'll take you to certain paragraphs of his affidavits for the explanation of the Committee and I'll immediately jump page 1 of the affidavit and go to page 2 which is paragraph 5, Mr Chairman
"I was the Regional Commander of APLA and I was deployed in the Sterkspruit-Zastron Lady Grey area by Lethlapha Mphahlele on the instruction of Sibelo Palma."

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you for the benefit of the Committee explain what do you mean when you say that you were "Regional Commander" and also that "you were deployed in that area on the instruction of Lethlapha Mphahlele on the instruction of Sibelo Palma"?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Firstly I will start with where I was stationed at Sterkspruit and with its surrounding areas of Zastron and Lady Grey that area regarded as a region when we divide South Africa.  So, all that area was under my command and second we come to the question of Lethlapha Mphahlele and Sibelo Palma.  The time I was entering the country of which I was once in Zimbabwe I met there Comrade Sibelo Palma who gave me instructions to get inside the country and engage Settler's Colonies in continuing for the liberation of our people.  And when I arrived inside the country, I met Comrade Lethlapha Mphahlele who instructed me that I have to be stationed at this stated area there of Sterkspruit of which I would be the commander of that area.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman I am proceeding to paragraph 6
"The target was identified by myself.  The armaments used in the operation was organised by myself.  On my capacity as a Regional Commander I was charged with the task of getting the ball rolling operationally and intelligence wise, and I was reporting directly to the director of operations regarding my activities an operation before and after they have taken place.  I was therefore always having Cadres at my disposal as I was involved in training new recruits"
Now I have read this paragraph I would like you first to start with the first sentence and tell the Committee how did you arrive at the target?  How did you identify the target? Can you explain to the Committee?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: As the Commander or the Regional Commander of that area, there will be soldiers who are  under my command.  They will be engaged in surveillance work and recognisance work and all that will be brought under my command.  Then I will decide out of that information or out of that data in what target or which target we have to attack.  Then whatever operation that took place in that area it was then under my command.  I was the one therefore that we targeting the targets and identifying targets which ones have to be attacked.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, "the armaments used in the operation was organised by myself".  Can you explain that to the Committee? How did you organise the weapons which were used?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: When I arrived in that area of Sterkspruit there were arms that I found that they were there already.  They were handed over in my command.  In that way I was the one therefore in charge of those arms.  And further if there has to be other arms that has to be transported in our area and they will needing my identification and my approval.  I will briefly state it that way.

MR LAX: Sorry, who did you take over from?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Sorry, repeat the question?

MR LAX: Who did you take over from when these arms were handed over to you when you took over command?  Who handed them to you and who did you take over from?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Sorry, Mr Chairman just I want because we speaking in English I think the best way is to put it ...(intervention)

MR LAX: On channel 2.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Channel 2.

MR LAX: Sorry just to repeat the questions.  There are really two or three different questions in one.  So let me do them separately.  Who did you take over command from in that area?  Who was the commander before you in other words?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Before I arrived?

MR LAX: Yes.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was another guy by the name of, I think it was his Sotho name, by the name of Phila.

MR LAX: Phila?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Aha.

MR LAX: I know you use chimarengan names, but do you know Phila's proper name?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I know him as Phila.

MR LAX: No other chimarengan name?  No other code name?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I take it that would be his chimarenga.

MR LAX: And who handed over the arms to you?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Sorry Mr Chairman, I just want to, it seems as if you don't get each other.  I'm sure there's a problem with his microphone.

MR SIBANYONI: Yes, but he is supposed to be on channel 2 there. If he addressing the Committee in English.  Is he on channel 2?  What does it say there on this thing?  Does it show a 2 like this?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, it's okay now, Mr Chairman.

MR LAX: Just for your benefit  on the right hand side of this unit is a volume control.  If you push it downwards it will increase the volume.   So, just to repeat in case you didn't year me, you only knew Phila's chimarengan name, you didn't know any other name of his?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No I didn't know any other name.

MR LAX: He didn't use any other chimarengan names?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: There was also another name.

MR LAX: Yes, what was that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Sipawa.

MR LAX: Now, you took over from him as you said.  Who handed over the arms to you?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was him.

MR LAX: And what arms did he hand over to you?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I have R4 rifles.

MR LAX: How many?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Two.

MR LAX: Carry on.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Pistols.

MR LAX: How many?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't recall.

MR LAX: What sort of calibre?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: 9mm and a revolver and grenades.

MR LAX: How many grenades?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't know how many grenades.

MR LAX: What sort of grenades?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: M24.

MR LAX: Any other firearms?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't recall.

MR LAX: Ammunition?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: There was ammunition for all these weapons I have mentioned.

MR LAX: Roughly how much per weapon or are you unable to say?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I would say for the rifle was a lot, but for the pistol we were short of ammunition for the pistols.

MR LAX: What was the calibre of the revolvers?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was an R4, which is ...(intervention)