Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-03

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I didn't do anything.  I just informed the people who were in my company, that he intended to kill me.
	Even if he doesn't himself, personally kill me, they should know that I am on the list, I am going to be killed.

CHAIRPERSON: As soon as you were told by him, of his intention to kill you, you then intended to kill him yourself?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I don't understand the question.

CHAIRPERSON: Once you became aware that he intended to kill you, you then also developed an intention, you cultivated an intention to kill him?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: You mean I developed the intention to kill him?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, I didn't have the plans to kill him at the time.  I started developing that intention or making plans to kill him, after realising what he did to other people, not only directly to me.

CHAIRPERSON: So it wasn't the fact that he had vowed to kill you, that made you kill him?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, that was not the only reason.

CHAIRPERSON: I am getting very confused if that is so, because I thought that was the basis of your application?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I have been trying to explain that these are the things that he said and also did some of the things to other members of the Inkatha people, Inkatha members.
	It is not only because he made a vow to kill me.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in your application, at page 8, you explain yourself as follows, I shot dead Mr Mshenga Phumayo on self defence after he attempted to shoot me.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Chairperson, I think I have already denied that and give reasons.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I am aware of that.  Yes, then you proceed to say I earlier received a tip to the effect that the deceased made a vow that if I could be eliminated, the organisation in our region, will have a peace of mind.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I got the rumours.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and you then proceed to say I was also told that they have planned to kill me?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Are these not the reasons why you killed him as stated in your application?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: These are some of the reasons why I killed him.  What I want to emphasise is the reason why I wanted to kill him, even myself, I was afraid of him.

CHAIRPERSON: You killed him, because you were afraid of him?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, if he wasn't doing anything to myself or the other members of the organisation, or the organisation itself, I wasn't going to kill him because I think no one has the right to kill someone else without a reason.

CHAIRPERSON: If you could encapsulate your reason or reasons for killing Mr Phumayo, what would you say they are?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I can put forward the following reasons.  I would like to apologise to drag you back what I have said before.
	Firstly I said he was a b rave person, I was afraid of him, and we, the members of Inkatha in kwaDela, we were the minority and I knew that if I were to be killed first, the Inkatha will be extinguished in the area, because I would be gone.
	That is the reason why I took a decision that  we should kill him, in order to establish good support in that area.  We were so few if I were to count before the Commission, there were a few young male members and a few female members.

CHAIRPERSON: Who was the Chairperson of the IFP locally in Davel?  The local branch, I am not talking about the Youth Brigade?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: It was Napoleon Nkonza.

CHAIRPERSON: The meeting that you held at the creche where you yourself took a decision to kill Phumayo, did he attend that meeting?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: No, but we did inform him and he knew that we normally had weekly meetings.  After two weeks, we used to have meetings and he knew about it.

CHAIRPERSON: Who had convened that meeting?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I personally, I was involved, I was in charge of arranging meetings.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the purpose of holding that meeting?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Most people had recently joined the party, and they didn't know much about the policies of the party.
	They didn't know practical things like if you were to be found, not in line with ... (tape ends) ... therefore we will meet, so that we can inform them about the disciplinary procedures and the policies of the party.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the issue of Mr Phumayo discussed at that meeting?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Chairperson, I tried to explain that I was afraid to inform these young people about this planning, because if I did so, it would be easy for me to be arrested, because if police came to investigate the case and question them, they might leak information.
	Therefore I decided to make it a secret, not to tell the others.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you discuss with the Chairperson of the IFP locally in Davel, your intention to kill Mr Phumayo in order to advance the interest of your party?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I didn't tell the Chairperson, Mr Nkonza himself.  The person whom I discussed this with, was Mtimzimotha who was the Chairperson of the Youth in Ermelo.

CHAIRPERSON: Why was Mr Nkonza as the Chairperson of the organisation, not made privy of your intention to do something that would have advanced the interest of the IFP?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I knew that he was not going to allow me to go and do it, since he had a high ranking position and he was afraid to be finding himself in a position where he could have given such instructions.
	I will say it will be so difficult as a grown up person, even at home, we are not allowed in our tradition, to send each other to go and do bad things.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying it was not the policy of the IFP to kill political opponents and that is the policy you knew, and that is why you didn't tell Mr Nkonza because you knew he would abide by that policy of the party?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is not correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So why should you not make him privy and further, why would he not have allowed you if that was the policy of the party?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: I didn't see the reason to go and see and tell him, but however, when I was at the police station, I did tell him the truth, that I am the one who did it, and I knew that after doing it, you will know that I did it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mtambo, I had earlier on asked you a very simple question, why you did not tell the Chairperson of the organisation about something that would have advanced the interest of the party, and your response was that you knew that he would not have allowed you to kill Mr Phumayo.

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So why should he not allow you to kill Mr Phumayo if it was the policy of the party to kill its political opponent?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: He will refuse to allow me to commit the act because he might have thought maybe I will also issue instructions, there might be a situation where I will also issue instructions to other people, to commit such acts.
	There wasn't a single day where he gave us instructions to go and kill and it was us who were responsible of looking at the situation, and trying to find the ways how to protect ourselves if we are attacked, we will go and attack on our own.

CHAIRPERSON: Isn't it speculation on your part to say that he would have refused, had there been an instant where you had so requested and such a request was refused by Mr Nkonza?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: Yes, I never stood before him and told him this is what we were going to do, before.

CHAIRPERSON: I thought you used the word courage, I don't know if my question was properly translated to you.  Is it not speculation on your part to say that Mr Nkonza would have refused you permission to kill Mr Phumayo if you had so requested?

SOLOMON COLLEN MTAMBO: That is correct.