Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-05

WITNESS:   After that I tried some means to convince the leader of the IFP.  Unfortunately he didn't co-operate, especially with regards to the killing of people, therefore I divided the two(?) Caprivians that they should infiltrate them in order to recruit the youth, especially in those Inkatha group who didn't see the need to fight or didn't want to fight and also to ensure that if the Theloweni people, there is some burning of houses and fighting, they should run to the area of the people who didn't want to be involved in violence action, to create an impression to the UDF people that even the other group, the Inkatha group is also fighting, so when they are attacked they could attack all of them.  Therefore because of that arrangement, the peaceful arrangement which was the Inkatha, find itself getting involved in the fight.  That was used as a strategy to get them involved in the fight and we used the Caprivians to achieve that.  During the day the Caprivians worked as police, go out of the police station, do their raids.  However, in the evening they have to take off their uniform and get involved in

MR MACADAM: /the

MR MACADAM: 3A the struggle.  When I refer to "struggle" I mean it's getting themselves to do what they were trained to do in Caprivi.

MR MACADAM: Just explain to us what they actually did then do?

WITNESS:   I just gave you a picture which will explain this.  If there was a UDF stronghold, the Theloweni group will be taken because it was well - it knew the place very well.  They know the targeted houses which were to be burnt, so when they arrived at night, their task will be to throw petrol bombs and run away and the Caprivians will stay behind and they will shoot people who will be running out from their houses.  That was their task.  It was because of the war which was between the two organisations, because if it so happened that houses was burnt on the other side, the other people are retaliating by burning houses on their attackers' side.  Sometimes if they were prominent leaders which we know were encouraging what was happening, they should be killed.  Attacked and killed.  That was the aim.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... approximately did this continue?

WITNESS:   It took a very - the time came where all the Caprivians, excluding the offensive group were taken to ... (inaudible) to be trained as specialists, who were to come back and help in Pietermaritzburg, because the situation in Maritzburg has intensified.

MR MACADAM: Just to clarify, what I want to hear from you at this stage is only an indication of over what period the attacks in the Mpumalanga area of Hammarsdale occurred.

WITNESS:   It took a very long time.  I don't remember as to when it was agreed that they actually lay down arms.  I don't remember the year, but it took some time.  During

MR MACADAM: /that

MR MACADAM: 3A that time where people were fighting at Mpumalanga, police and the military intelligence were one thing together with the Inkatha, collaborating with Inkatha at Hammarsdale, because if Inkatha was to attack in UDF area, they will first have a meeting between the military intelligence and the police before the IFP could attack that particular place.

MR MACADAM: Just to clarify, were you yourself present at any of these meetings, or not?

WITNESS:   I was present.

MR MACADAM: Who(?) else(?) was present?

WITNESS:   Sipho Mlaba used to be there.   Paul Berry(?) from the military intelligence, Deon Terblanche from the SAP used to be there.

MR MACADAM: Approximately how many of these meetings were there?

WITNESS:   A lot of them.  I can't remember.

MR MACADAM: Can you describe to us in detail what was done as a consequence of what was decided at those meetings?

WITNESS:  In the military intelligence I find it when I arrived there it was ... [break in recording] ... started operating in Hammarsdale, because leaders of IFP at Hammarsdale had bodyguards.  They were guarded by the military intelligence.  I'll say the whole leadership in Mpumalanga, I happened to find myself at the scene after the death of Zakhele who was a prominent leader at Mpumalanga.  That is the first time I met this man.  Thereafter I was called to Botha's Hill, Polo Pony where this man, to introduce himself to me.  I asked M Z Khumalo about this man.  M Z Khumalo arranged for another meeting where we all met, declaring that he knew the people.  Their task was to supply ammunition, the production of pamphlets.  If there was a pamphlet to be made by the UDF,

MR MACADAM: /they

MR MACADAM: 3A they will interpret(?) the particular pamphlet as if it was produced by the IFP and they will distribute these pamphlets in the township.   It was discovered that Paul Berry while preparations for the Caprivi training were being done, this was one of the men who was contacted and because of his knowledge I believe that it was true, because he explained to me as to how we left the place and the whole idea as to where we left(?) and he knew everything about it.

MR MACADAM: And did you ever at any stage inform other people about any attacks which you were planning, or not?

WITNESS:  I would say Deon Terblanche.  His task was eliminate police and also to protect those who happened to be arrested.

MR MACADAM: MR   (?): Mr Chairman, I'm terribly sorry to interrupt.  You will not believe the answer I just heard over the Afrikaans to which I just switched over.  Could that question that has been put a moment ago just be put to the witness again and to let him give the answer again, because what I heard is that Terblanche - "... dat dit Terblanche se taak was om ..." ... (intervention)

MR MACADAM: MS   (?): That Terblanche's "taak" was to eliminate the police.  This does not make any sense to me.

MR LYSTER: (?)   That was the same answer given in English.  Perhaps the question should be put again.  I don't - I didn't understand it.
MR   (?): The answer was that Terblanche had the task to eliminate the police.

MR LYSTER: Yes.  Mr Stewart, can you just clarify that?

MR STEWART: The word used by the witness was "susa" and not being a Zulu expert, but I understand him to mean to
 /remove
3A remove the police from the area, not to eliminate them.

MR LYSTER: Let's put that to the witness, please, Mr Macadam.

MR MACADAM: Can you - Mr Luthuli, if you can kindly clarify for the Commission what you meant to convey that Major Terblanche would do in connection with the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I mean that, to remove them, because he was in charge of the Riot Unit, so he had to oversee the violence situation in the townships.  He is the one who knew as to the deployment of units.  If the IFP was preparing to attack, he is the one who knew the arrangements and as to where which unit to be deployed in any particular area.  He knew the times and he will send them to go and patrol those places, specific places.  There, for the IFP will get into a particular area, attack and after a time have elapsed, a good time have elapsed, the police will come running to the area, after the IFP people have disappeared.  So this was his task.

MR MACADAM: And you also described in these attacks that the Caprivians would have firearms.  Where did these come from?

WITNESS:   The person who supplied us with firearms was M Z Khumalo.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording] ... where he had obtained them from, or not?

WITNESS:   He got them from the Defence Force, South African Defence Force.

MR MACADAM: What type ... [break in recording]?

WITNESS:   They were - those arms were including UZIS, AK47, Makorov, Tokarev, the offensive and defensive hand grenades.  Those were from the Eastern Block countries.

MR MACADAM: You mentioned that at a certain stage these Caprivians went for training at Koeberg and became

MR MACADAM: /specialists.

MR MACADAM: 3A specialists.  What exactly do you want to convey by that?