Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR VALLY: Miss Nkadimeng was requested by ourselves to come to this hearing, the reason she was requested to come to this hearing is in following up information given to us by the police officers who were here yesterday in trying to track down the whole issue of Mr Johannes Mabotha, especially as we had obtained a copy of a human rights violations statement by a family member of Mr Johannes Mabotha.
 We found out about Miss Nkadimeng because her name was also mentioned by Miss Xoliswa Falati and we have requested her to give evidence here, it wasn't as if she's approached us, thank you Mr Chairman.

MR SEMENYA: Chairperson, I don't know whether I should have any use for this commentary which is telling me about how Mr Mabotha was killed by de Kock by blowing him up.  We're supposed to be here I'm told, to listen to human rights violations about the soccer team and Mrs Mandela.  I don't see the connection and why this witness is just sprung on us again.
 On the 7th day of the hearings again this morning we're given a document to start reading and I'm trying to make a connection.  How is the evidence of this witness connected with the issues before this Commission?

MR VALLY: I think it's obvious Mr Chairperson. There are a number of legs to this, the first leg is the issue of Xoliswa Falati and Katiza Cebekhulu being sent out of the country to contact the press from outside the country regarding the whole Stompie issue.
 The second issue of relevance is the fact that an informer is in the Madikizela-Mandela household, that this information is brought to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's attention and nothing happens, especially since there has been allegations regarding how informers have been treated or alleged informers have been treated, so both issues are entirely relevant to this particular enquiry.  
 To what extent were the police complicit in the incidents that happened at the Madikizela-Mandela household - number one, number two, to what extent is the Mandela United Football Club and Mrs Madikizela-Mandela involved in the whole issue of Stompie and the subsequent attempts at covering up.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you should put your questions to the witness.

MR SEMENYA: Thank you Chairperson.
 Ma'am you were telling us about Xoliswa Falati, Richardson and Cebekhulu on their way to Lusaka when they come to your home?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: And all of a sudden they are no longer going to Lusaka, they are coming back with you to Soweto?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MR SEMENYA: Can you explain that to us.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Since I was restricted, I felt that ...[indistinct] that I was still detained but at home and then after getting this information that these people are from Mrs Mandela and they're on their way to Lusaka, I couldn't be an inbetweener.   I couldn't stop their trip but as the situation that prevailed at that time - after hearing the message from my comrades that the police are looking for you, there was no way I could just leave that situation as it is.

MR SEMENYA: Can I interrupt you Ma'am?  Why did Xoliswa Falati, Richardson and Katiza Cebekhulu not go to Lusaka as they were on route to Lusaka, do you know?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Sorry for the correction, Richardson was not involved in this trip, it was Xoliswa, Cebekhulu and Bosmont, not Richardson.

MR SEMENYA: Okay, why did Bosmont, Xoliswa and Cebekhulu not continue to Lusaka, do you know?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Temba left them at my home.

MR SEMENYA: Do you know why they didn't proceed to Lusaka?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: May you repeat your question?

MR SEMENYA: Do you know why they didn't proceed to Lusaka?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I think it's because I stopped because of the information from the police cells, that's why ...[indistinct] ...[intervention]

MR SEMENYA: Because ...[intervention]

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Firstly, it's because of the disappointment of Temba and secondly it's because I got the information from the comrades about the police who were seeking me and what came into my thoughts was: "Okay, Temba dropped these people here and he went to call the police to come and detain me together with these people" when I didn't even know how to handle the whole situation.

MR SEMENYA: So, you managed to stop them and said: "Guys, you're not going there"?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I would say so because I had to make them return to Soweto.

MR SEMENYA: We're told that when people are classified informers at Mrs Mandela's house they are assaulted and some are killed, did anybody threaten you there?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: The threats - he didn't come face to face but the way the information circulated within that house I could feel that I was in real danger and I could be killed at any time.

MR SEMENYA: Did anybody lift an arm for you?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: No.

MR SEMENYA: Did anybody use vile language against you?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: No.

MR SEMENYA: Did anybody say they were going to kill you?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Not at Mrs Mandela's house.  As I am explaining that the way the information circulated - after Temba alleged that I was an Askari - I mean I was an informer, there was tension between me and Mrs Mandela, there was no trust between me and Mrs Mandela.
 And as I said, Mrs Mandela was always in the company of Temba.  Temba I understand was busy everyday, he was busy fabricating stories against me but he was not telling me straight.  He would tell Mrs Mandela and Mrs Mandela would tell Xoliswa, Xoliswa would come to me and I would deny the whole thing and Xoliswa would go and tell Mrs Mandela again that: "Euvodia is denying the whole thing".  Temba got again - with those stories on an everyday basis until I was arrested.

MR SEMENYA: You say Mr Mabotha was your boyfriend?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I say so.

MR SEMENYA: Was Mr Mabotha your boyfriend?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I would say in quotes because I said yes to his proposal and even when we went to Tzaneen he slept with me.

MR SEMENYA: What does that mean?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I cannot answer that one, I think it's obvious to everybody.

MR SEMENYA: It's because you say you had a relationship with him in quotes, now I don't understand what you mean by quotes.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, what I mean when I say - you asked me if Mr Mabotha was my boyfriend and I said: "in quotes" because as I explained before that I didn't take that affair as anybody would take it any normal affair between two people.

MR SEMENYA: And yet you sleep with him.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, I slept with him.

MR SEMENYA: Ma'am

CHAIRPERSON: Order please, this is not a film.

MR SEMENYA: Let me put it to you that Johannes Mabotha is not Temba, the name Temba was given to him by Mrs Mandela.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Can I give my version about that?

MR SEMENYA: Yes.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: In prison Johannes Mabotha told me that he is Johannes Mabotha, that's his real name and that's what I established when I was released but then when I went to Mrs Mandela's house I found her calling him by that name of Temba.

MR SEMENYA: That's right.

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I assumed it was a nickname but the real thing is, he is Johannes Mabotha and not Mabothe - t - h - a.

MR SEMENYA: But let me tell you why he was using that name, he was using the name because he's the very first person who disclosed the Vlakplaas story which was communicated to Lusaka, can you deny that Ma'am?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: I cannot deny that because I only found him being referred to as Temba, as to the origin of the name I cannot tell.

MR SEMENYA: You come from Pietersburg, you'd know there are no Temba's there because that's a Zulu or Xhosa name.  Is that right?

MAGALI EUVODIA NKADIMENG: Yes, it's a Zulu name I think.