Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-30

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: He said he had nothing to say.  The policy of the ANC is if a person acts in this particular matter, he is actually reverting or blocking the road to freedom, so he must be attacked.

MR WILLS: Can you tell the members of the Committee how you in fact performed this operation?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: In 1993 we took a decision that this man should be surveyed and be put under surveillance.  He was not coming regularly to our area any more.  I learnt that he was staying somewhere at (indistinct) and when we looked for him, we couldn't find him.
	He was also reported to be in Pinetown, but we couldn't get hold of him.  He arrived ...

MR WILLS: When you say we took a decision to put him under surveillance, who are the persons that made that decision?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I was with Linda Xaba and Filo Mandla Mthetwa.

MR WILLS: Okay, continue.

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: He arrived at about March 1994 and we realised that we shouldn't let him go so that he should be attacked quickly,  when the police, his colleagues arrive, he would be late.
	This is how it happened.  We went to a certain house, Xaba's house.  On arrival ...

MR WILLS: When you say we, who do you mean?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I was with Fila Mthetwa.

MR WILLS: So, Xaba was not around at that stage?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: No, he was not around.

MR WILLS: Continue.

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: On arrival, I greeted this person and he greeted us back.  I told him that today he has no chance, it was his last day, because his comrades were not around.
	I then cocked a G3 rifle and I shot him.

MR WILLS: Whereabout did you shoot him?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: On the thigh and on the chest, he died at the scene.
	Sbusiso Mlaba was sitting on the bed and at that time Filo Mandla Mthetwa had a pistol on him, a 7,65.  As Sbusiso was trying to flee out of the window, Filo shot at him I think at the back of his head.
	When I asked him why he did this, he said he thinks if he flees, he will go and report the matter to the police, and that is why he decided to kill him.

MR WILLS: What did you think about the death of the second person, Sbusiso Mlaba?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I thought that Filo did the right thing by killing Sbusiso Mlaba because he would have indeed gone to the police and we would have been in trouble, because they were seeking ANC members left, right and centre.

MR WILLS: You were convicted in the High Court in Pietermaritzburg in respect of the deaths of both of these persons, and in respect of the possession of a machine rifle, is that correct?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And you received an effective 25 year period imprisonment?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: What have you got to say to the family members of the deceased persons today?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, I would like to start or begin with regard to the Mlaba family.  I am very sorry, I deeply regret what happened.
	What happened stemmed from the decision to kill Nhlamvu who was an informer.  I deeply regret the death of Sbusiso Mlaba who was so young at the time.
	In my attempts when I was in prison, I contacted my family and requested them to just go and they went with people from the Nazareth Church to just go bless the family and the graveyard of Sbusiso because I knew what had happened was bad, because we are related to the Mlaba's.
	With regards to the Mkhize family, I am deeply sorry and regret what had happened.  What happened, was not intentional but was due to the political situation at that time.  I ask for their forgiveness.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson, that is the evidence in chief.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wills.  Ms Thabete, do you have any questions?

MS THABETE: Yes Mr Chairperson.  Mr Mlaba, is it true that the kwaXemba area was an ANC area?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, that is correct.

MS THABETE: Is it also correct that Sbusiso Mlaba the deceased, is part of your family in the sense that your father and Sbusiso's father, are brothers?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I think that is so, although I had not followed it closely whether we are really closely related.

MS THABETE: So, what are you saying, are you saying that you were not aware that you are related?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I know that as Mlaba, he is a family member, but I didn't know just how, that in detail.

MS THABETE: Before I speak about the killing of Mr Nhlamvu Mkhize and the killing of Mr Sbusiso Mlaba, I just want to get some background information.  You say you and Mr Filo Mandla Mthetwa,  decided to go to Lungisani's place, is that correct?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: That is correct.

MS THABETE: What were you going to do there?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: We were looking for Mr Nhlamvu Mkhize.

MS THABETE: Did he stay there?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: That is where he normally used to arrive or he used to stay, when he arrived in the area.

MS THABETE: So what you are saying to me is that you went there with the intention of killing Mr Nhlamvu Mkhize?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, we had been searching for him for a long time, we decided that if he arrived at the area, we should kill him.

MS THABETE: Okay, you say you killed Nhlamvu Mkhize because he was a police informer, is that correct?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, that is correct.

MS THABETE: What did he do?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: As I explained before, Nhlamvu used to work with the SB members.  I even received this information from a police person from Webber police station.

MS THABETE: So, I am trying to ascertain what did Mr Nhlamvu Mkhize say about you to the policemen?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: He actually told the police that I was a person who was dangerous, because I had received training from Umtata and I was the eldest amongst the people that I have been trained with.
	Therefore if they had been able to get hold of me, they would actually have gotten the head of the gang.

MS THABETE: When did you ...

MR LAX: Sorry, if both of you could just be aware that it is being translated, and sometimes you are asking questions before the translation is finished.

MS THABETE: Sorry for that.  When did you start living at kwaXemba after you had been trained?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: In 1992.

MS THABETE: When you arrived at Lungisani's place, you found Mr Nhlamvu Mkhize there, is that correct?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: Yes, we found him there.

MS THABETE: Did you ask him any questions about the allegations you had heard about him?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I did not question him, because we had discussed or I had tried to talk to him previously and he was arrogant and he didn't want to speak to me.

MS THABETE: So you just came in there and you shot him, is that what you are saying?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: I told him Nhlamvu, this is your last day, you are going to be killed today.

MS THABETE: Are you aware that Mr Nhlamvu was an ANC member?

MZAMO THABANI MLABA: No.

MS THABETE: I am asking you this because I consulted with the victims, I mean with his relatives, and apparently he was even active during the election time, because when you killed him, it was in 1994, March, just before the elections.  Are you saying to me that you were not aware that he was very active in getting voters and supporting the ANC for the elections?

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Chairperson, if I could intervene here.  I am of the respectful view that my colleague is not being entirely fair with her line of questioning.  I have had sight of the investigative report of the TRC in respect of this matter, and it is clear from this report that there are independent witnesses in this report, who indicate that the deceased in this matter, was indeed a police informer.
	If the purpose of my learned friend's questioning is to try to suggest that the deceased was not such an informer, I would suggest that that would be unfair that she too has had sight of this report.