Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-13

MR TIPP: ....[inaudible what took place then, Mr Chairman you will recall that evidently precipitated by my announcement that the present witness is Zulu speaking, there followed a commotion of utterances and gestures. I'm instructed that amongst what was said were the following:  that Mr Zuma has betrayed his nation and that before the end of this hearing he will be put to death.  There was also some vulgar abuse that need not be relayed.
	Mr Zuma is to a very real extent concerned about what was said.  He nevertheless assures me that he is anxious to proceed with his testimony, Mr Chairman, but he does request whether you might not direct, Mr Chairman, that in view of the nature of those threats that the press should be directed not to publish photographs of him and that a similar direction should be issued in respect of the television broadcasts.  I may say that similar rulings were made in the course of the inquest before his Lordship Mr Justice Nugent.

CHAIRPERSON: I will consider this request after consulting with my colleagues and we will then take a decision in that matter at that stage.  Thank you very much.

MR TIPP: As it pleases you Mr Chairman.  Might Mr Zuma then be sworn in?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: (sworn states)

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma, I would like you to begin please by just placing on record some details about yourself and your involvement with the African National Congress.  I'll lead you on a few of the preliminary aspects.
	You were born in Natal in 1967 and you schooled there is that correct?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Correct.

MR TIPP: And whilst at school you became the Chairman of your SRC?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Correct.

MR TIPP: And you also then became involved in the activities of the Youth Congress and of COSAS?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Correct.

MR TIPP: Would you please tell the Committee when and in what way you became involved with the African National Congress?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I was involved with the African National Congress, the MK underground in 1985.  I received a crash course in military combat work which I specialised in urban warfare.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you repeat what you said?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I did military combat work, crash course with emphasis in urban warfare and I operated with the MK unit since then.

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma, I'm going to ask you please just to speak up a little so that all the members of the Committee and the counsel at the far end of the hall can hear you clearly.
	Now were you arrested at any time?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes I was arrested in 1986 under Section 54, Internal Security Act and I was later transferred to the State of Emergency and I was released from the State of Emergency in 1987.

MR TIPP: So you were detained then for a period of several months, about seven months, is that correct?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: And after you release did you continue to work with the MK underground?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Correct.

MR TIPP: Is it correct also that from 1990 you became an employee of the African National Congress working full time in KwaZulu Natal?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Yes in 1990 we had to come above board.

MR TIPP: And as from 1992 were you employed at Shell House in Johannesburg?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: On the day that we are concerned with, the 28th March 1994, in what unit were you involved?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: I was involved in the unit that was protecting Mr Sisulu who was the Deputy President of the ANC then.

MR TIPP: And were you on duty in that capacity on the 28th March 1994?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Mr Zuma you've made an application for amnesty - for that purpose you have lodged an application form with details about yourself and the reasons for the application made in your own handwriting?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: In amplification of your description of the events on 28th March 1994 at and around Shell House you also filed with that application a typed affidavit deposed to by yourself?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: Mr Chairman, the Committee will find those documents at page 30 to 41 of the bundle.  There has, unfortunately, there's been a duplication - pages 42 and 43 should simply be disregarded - they duplicate certain pages and Mr Chairman there is also a supplementary affidavit deposed to by Mr Zuma which is in the second small bundle at pages 43a to 43d.
	Mr Zuma, I want to get to the point of the event that has given rise to your application for amnesty as rapidly as possible.  I don't want to dwell on the early hours of the 28th March 1994.  You have set out a brief description of what you did before you got to Shell House and the early observations at Shell House in your affidavit and that has been incorporated by you in the application, is that correct?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: What I would like you to do is first of all to describe briefly to the Committee your impressions of the earlier groups of marchers who you see moving in front of the entrance of Shell House in Plein Street.  What sort of conduct by them did you observe?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Well those were large groups that were armed with an assortment of weapons ranging from assegais, knobkierries,
pump action and other pangas and traditional weapons.

MR TIPP: Sorry, what was the last thing you said, I didn't hear it very clearly?  Pump Action?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: Panga.

MR TIPP: Panga?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: And they were very wild.

CHAIRPERSON: They were very what?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: They were very wild.

CHAIRPERSON: Wild.

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: They were very wild and they were doing mock attack on the security that was deployed in front of Shell House at the time and they would launch mock attacks on the security and they would tear placards for elections that were in front of Shell House.

MR TIPP: It's common cause Mr Zuma that no action was taken by the ANC security guards at any one of those groups?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: You have described also an incident that took place in Plein Street involving a shot, that was shortly before the main shooting.  Would you describe briefly to the Committee what you can recollect of that incident?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: A small group of marchers came from the westerly direction towards the east of the marchers.  They were chanting and singing and they and at that time when they came I was at the corner of King George and Plein with two members of the SAP, one member of the Defence Force, Eddie Khumalo was there and they fired a shot in our direction.  We all fell down to the ground to take cover and a member of the SADF was carrying an R4, responded by one shot which I'm not sure whether it was deliberate or it was out of trembling because he was visibly shaken when that shot went off and the police that were there issued instruction to him not to shoot and they said that they will go and arrest that person, they have seen who amongst that crowd had fired.  They ran down towards the crowd and immediately after a few seconds they came back running and they said that crowd is dangerous, it's armed with dangerous weapons, they cannot come close to them, they need to have an armoured vehicle in order to get close to that crowd.

MR TIPP: And that crowd dispersed and no further incident took place in relation to them?

BETHUEL MONDLI ZUMA: That is correct.

MR TIPP: I would like you next to deal with the incident in De Villiers Street immediately before the main event, the main shooting, would you describe that to the Committee please?