Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-12-01

CHAIRPERSON: Before you go Mr Mqibi, you are one of the on the ground leaders or used to be in that area, correct?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: I was a commander that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: Now while things have happened and there's nothing we can do to change it, people have lost their properties, people were injured, people lost family members, how do you feel about that today?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: Thank you very much for asking that question, it's a very good question.

CHAIRPERSON: I know it's good that's why I asked it.

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: What happened at that time was terrible, the devil came and was living with us and that's why today we are here to ask for amnesty.  We don't know where the devil came from and who brought the devil in South Africa.  Even today if you see the people who got injured it's sad, it's sad to everyone because somebody's blood is never quiet or somebody's soul, that's why I'm here today to ask for amnesty.  I'm not asking this from the people who suffered only, I'm also asking from other people who suffered, even the whites especially in Section 2, too many whites died there.  I'm saying I'm very much sorry, it wasn't our intention, we were defending ourselves and the devil was among everyone of us and now I'm asking for forgiveness, even to Sibongele.  It wasn't the intention, the devil came, we were living together and the devil came and divided us.  He made sure that some people died and some are suffering and I want to tell everyone in this house that devil just came and we are very sorry.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Now you see, how are things in the area now, are they quite, peaceful or what?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: It's quite and very peaceful.

CHAIRPERSON: And the last time this devil came to pay his attention to the area was just before the last elections, not so?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: It was just after the election when the devil passed and people lived.  If I can tell you today how it was and then take you today and go with you to Thokoza, you will think that I'm lying.

CHAIRPERSON: No, I know what you're talking about.  How do I ask the question you know, would you agree that was real madness, people dying for nothing?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: I don't know whether people were mad but what I can agree with is that the devil was there.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm not saying the people were made I'm saying what happened there was madness, it was not right?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: The situation was really bad.  Whether it was madness or what I don't know but it was very bad.

CHAIRPERSON: Right.  Now next year these elections come along again, you know that?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: Yes I know that very well.

CHAIRPERSON: And you know the devil may just come pay his respects again, not so?  It always happens election time.

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: That's correct because the devil can come again but he likes those situations, we didn't know the first time he was going to come and he came and he might come again.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you think the people of the area can learn the lesson of the last time and resist doing and repeating what happened last time, if the devil does come back here?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: I would say people who had been present, people who had experienced the past, if there's anyone who is going to allow the devil to enter his heart, that person won't be a living human being.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that people have learned their lesson?

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: Yes they have truly learned to wait for the devil so that when he comes he mustn't enter their hearts.

CHAIRPERSON: Well all I can say is that I hope that you are right and if the devil does come I can only plead with you to do your best to avoid him being successful.

THANDUXOLO PATRICK MQIBI: I'm happy, thanks for that, I hope it will be like that too.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED