Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1997-08-04

CHAIRPERSON: This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee which comprises of myself as Chairman, on my right Advocate Chris de Jager, Senior Counsel and on my left Advocate Sandi.  We're here this morning to consider the application of Mr Hlope.  Mr Brink, are ready?

MR BRINK: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I understand the application for amnesty relates to the conviction for the murder of Zazi Kuzwayo and Nicolas Mkhize.  The application also relates to the attempted murder of C D Sekekane and J Letule and you will see from pages 128 to 132 of the bundle, affidavits from those two gentlemen appear which indicate what happened to them.  The applicant in this matter ...(intervention)

ADV DE JAGER: Sorry could you kindly repeat the pages?

MR BRINK: Yes.  Pages 128 to 132 - the affidavits Mr Sekekane and Mr Letule.  The applicant has not however been charged ...(inaudible)  The next of kin are represented by, well let me say the applicant is represented by Advocate Shangweni and the next of kin and interested parties, are represented by Mr ...(inaudible)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

MR BRINK: Sorry.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name of the other person...(inaudible)

MR BRINK: Mr Letule - I'll give you his full names now Mr Chairman sorry, I missed that.   Bhiki Leda, that's Bhi - well it appears in paragraph two of page 128.  ...(no sound)  that's the one.

CHAIRPERSON: May we proceed?

MR SHANGWENI: Thank you Mr Chairman, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHANGWENI: That's correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you prepared to take the oath?

MSIZI JETHRO HLOPE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shangweni?

MR SHANGWENI: Thank you Mr Chairman, members of the Committee, the applicant Msizi Jethro Hlope will now give evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) Mr Diaz is appearing for the victims and relatives ...(inaudible)

MR BRINK: Well I agree with you Mr Chairman, I was told the situation as such was that he would listen and then he would change places when ...(inaudible) agree, possibly he could get a table.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) during the adjournment ...(inaudible)

MR BRINK: ...(inaudible)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR BRINK: Could we adjourn for two minutes or so just to see if that could be done?

CHAIRPERSON: If this can be done then we'll take a short adjournment.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MSIZI JETHRO HLOPE: (s.u.o.)

MR SHANGWENI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  With your permission Mr Chairperson, I would like to call Msizi Jethro Hlope who will now give evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR SHANGWENI: Msizi, do you accept the contents of the affidavit you have written as true and correct?

MR HLOPE: That's correct.

MR SHANGWENI: With your permission Mr Chairperson, I beg leave to submit the original of his affidavit for the purpose of record.  I think you have copies thereof.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR SHANGWENI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  For the purpose of record please state your name and surname.

MR HLOPE: I am Msizi Jethro Hlope.

MR SHANGWENI: How old are you?

MR HLOPE: I was born in 1972 on the 4th of December, in Klenaville, Nduduma.

MR SHANGWENI: How long did you live there?

MR HLOPE: I was born there and I grew up there until I was arrested.

MR SHANGWENI: Which schools did you attend and up to which standard?

MR HLOPE: I attended school at Zakele HP School until standard four.

MR SHANGWENI: You are presently incarcerated at Pietermaritzburg prison for the murder of  Zazi Kuzwayo and Nicolas Mkhize, is that correct?

MR HLOPE: That's correct.

MR SHANGWENI: Could you in your own words tell the Commission how it came that you were involved with Samuel Begezizwe Djamile?

MR HLOPE: Yes, I can do that.

MR SHANGWENI: Could you explain please.

MR HLOPE: Mr Djamile is my neighbour at 21 Street.  Mr Djamile was a prominent member at Claremont.  In 1987 Mr Djamile at Claremont, he was of the prominent political leaders for the IFP.  I started working with Mr Djamile.
	At that time I was 16 years old and I was not affiliated with any political organisation, neither was I a UDF nor IFP member.  I became an IFP member after I pointed some members of the UDF to Mr Djamile, then Mr Djamile gave me a membership card.  It was in 1987.

MR SHANGWENI: Mr Hlope, now let me direct your attention to the events leading to the killing of Mr Zazi Kuzwayo, what happened?

MR HLOPE: I was coming there.  I just wanted to take you step by step.

MR SHANGWENI: That's correct, you can continue.

CHAIRPERSON: I think you should just answer questions as they are put to you.

MR SHANGWENI: I will repeat the question Mr Hlope.  I'm directing you to the - your attention to the events leading to the killing of Zazi Kuzwayo, what happened?

MR HLOPE: In 1987 Mr Djamile told me to not disappear at his yard and he also told me that there were boys who were coming to his house.  I found Dalikolo Letule who was one of the trainees from Caprivi and Vusi Kumalo, Velamkunu and another three people whom I didn't know their names.
	Mr Djamile told me to take all these boys to Mr Zazi Kuzwayo's house for me to point out Mr Kuzwayo's house.  We went there - we drove by a Cressida which was tinted.  Just before we arrived at Mr Kuzwayo's house they slowed down and I showed them Mr Kuzwayo's business or shopping centre.  
	After that we went back to Mr Djamile's house and  I explained to Mr Djamile that I've pointed Mr Kuzwayo's house.  Then as we were there Vela Mkunu came to me and told me that they were going to go back to Kuzwayo's house to kill him.

CHAIRPERSON: The same day, was that the same day?

MR HLOPE: Not at the same day but he said they were going to go back - not at the same day.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR HLOPE: Vela Mkunu told me not disappear because we were still going to go to Mr Kuzwayo's house.  When Mr Kuzwayo was killed, I was called by Mr Djamile at his house.   He told me to accompany Begezizwe, Socha Kumalo and Velamkunu and another two people whom I didn't know.
	At that day we were also with Shlagani Pani Djamile - that's Mr Djamile's son.  I can't remember the car which we drove that day but we went to Mr Zazi's house and we parked the car near the Claremont Post Office.  Vela told me to go to Mr Zazi Kuzwayo's shop and look if he was there.  If he was there I mustn't come, I must just raise my hand or waive my hand as a signal to them that he was there.  I did like I was told.  
	I went inside the shop, I found Mr Kuzwayo inside his shop and I signalled to them as I was told.  I just waived my hand and I went to my stepmother's house and to Mr Djamile's house. 
	Later the same day Vela came and told me that they were successful in their operation of killing Mr Kuzwayo and Vela told me that he was the one himself who shot at him and then he said, as they were running away from that shop they met someone whom they also killed.
	After that soldiers were sent and also security forces came at Mr Djamile's house as securities and there were braai's and they were firing guns.  They were celebrating the killing of Mr Zazi Kuzwayo.  I left Mr Djamile's house that time.

CHAIRPERSON: What day of the week or when was that, do you know?

MR HLOPE: I can't remember the month and the day but I do remember that it was in 1987.

ADV DE JAGER: What was your sentence after you've been arrested and the hearing, what was your sentence in respect of the death of - or weren't you charged with this at all?

MR HLOPE: You're referring to this case that I'm talking about now, Mr Zazi's?  I was sentenced for 12 years.

ADV SANDI: Before the incident we're talking about, that is the day when Mr Kuzwayo is killed, did you know Mr Kuzwayo before?

MR HLOPE: Yes, I did.  He was a business man at Claremont.

ADV SANDI: Did you in any way regard him as a political opponent or enemy to you or a political organisation to which you belonged?

MR HLOPE: Yes, he was a UDF member.