Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

UNKNOWN: Firstly, my name is Luthando Dyasop.  I am originally from Umtata in the Transkei or former Transkei. I had done my education up to matric, that is in 1976, but I must say that when I went to school, I was more interested in education and I myself, I must say that I am an artist.  Something which is in the family, I must say. My father taught me art and I have always loved art.  When I went to school, it was for the love of education.  But then my father wanted me to be somebody. I shouldn't an artist like he was, I should be somebody, maybe a teacher, a clerk, but I was not interested in that.  But then I had to get something, a career. Then I got interested in architecture.   Then came 1976, I was doing my matric.  Of course there were the June 1976 riots, which influenced the whole country.  In Transkei, Transkei has been a place that has been, people have been politically motivated even prior to 1976.  In our local schools there used to be from time to time, schools like St Johns, there would be strives, which were politically motivated, and as you know, even the now President comes from that side. People who had been politically, been inclined sort of or ...
 So when 1976 came, I wanted, I knew that after my matric I had to do this architecture, but then I found
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that architecture was not, there was no faculty for Black people in South Africa, for architecture.
 Now this really disappointed me and I wasn't going to change maybe to be a clerk or a teacher or really I got frustrated.  So I used to help my father, as he is a painter, would go painting around Umtata, even outside the Transkei, we will be moving around with my father.
 Until of course, some people whom I later realised to be ANC people, I befriended these people.  We got more and more political.  That was from 1976.  When I failed my matric in 1976, and when I repeated it in 1977 I knew that my mind was not there. So I soon, I just dropped out from matric in 1977 and later well, I just decided that I should go to exile and join the ANC.
 Of course, there was the raid of freedom, which was also encouraging us to join the liberation movements.  So in 1980 I left for Lesotho. I arrived in Carters Neck(?) in November, the 2nd. I was kept in that Carters Neck police station and whilst they were still connecting with the UN. Then I was in the 14th of November, I was transferred to Maseru.  Where I could have a chance to join the ANC and the MKs.  
 Well, Lesotho was a different passage as opposed to others like Swaziland and Botswana. People like there stayed longer than these other countries. In Lesotho I stayed from that November until September 1981.  That's when I left for Maputo where I didn't stay long and then I went further to Luanda, back to Angola. 
 On December 17th 1981 I got my military training in Gamanlondi training camp.  We were later transferred to Quaqualama.  We opened this camp Qquaqualam in February 1982 SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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and our military, our course was suspended for some weeks.
Then it was resumed later.  After we had finished our course, around July 1982, I was taken to Quashito camp, also in Angola.  This Quashito camp is where people are prepared. They get their last preparations before they can infiltrate inside the country.
 I regarded myself very lucky to get the opportunity to come and fulfil my dream of fighting for my country.  But then there in Quashito I was to specialise in an anti-air gun, called Straler 2M.  So we got these instructors from the Soviet Union.  The course was supposed to be six months.  We did that six months and then we have some revision.  After that revision, well, there was a bit of a lull.  Then in August 1983 we were taken from Quashito.  In my group that was doing this Straler 2M was 16. By the time we were 15, because our commander was ill.
 The 15 of us were taken wholesome to the Eastern front. We were not briefed where we were going.  I thought I was coming back to South Africa to fight, but then we were taken to this Eastern front and I was there with my group, we were in this group called Kagiso.  
 In Kagiso we stayed. Of course it was a relief for some, for most members in the MK, who had been languishing in the bush, doing nothing.  Now having that chance, at least, to be within the community, to learn the beauties of some Portuguese and to have some experience.  Because that was the main thing that we were told, that we were going to this Eastern front to get some experience. It will be a matter of some three months, we get this experience, then we can use that experience here in South Africa.
 So we were fighting against Unita of Savimbi.  Now 
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Now as I have said, it was a relief to most of us, but then the reality was that we were fighting a war with people who were also fighting.  So when we got some casualties - our first casualty was when we were ambushed and the one comrade whose name was Caroline, died in that ambush.  What followed was that it was a hot pursuit after those who had ambushed our trucks, in which Caroline died.  
 Now one thing I must highlight is that we were fighting people who were guerillas, and we were also guerillas. We were not taught in counter-insurgency.  Having never been taught in counter-insurgency, we were not even assisted by the Government of Angola, because they had trucks, they had bigger guns, they had all the facilities, but we did this on our own.  
 Of course we were fighting alongside some locals who were not trained. They just got this crash course which would last some three weeks, then they will be handed an AK and we were to fight alongside such upstarts.
 All right.  Now the reality was that we were fighting and when we suffered these casualties and we made this hot pursuit, and we found out that Unita, Unita's strategy was to terrorise the people and capture them. They didn't mind capturing the whole village, and they would leave the old people, old people who cannot help them.  Then they take the young ones, together with food and they would go along with them, take them to the bush and train them.  
 Now we did our best and now on that hot pursuit, we arrested a lot of people, more especially people in whose villages we found our team staff which had been captured in that ambush.
 Now I must say that in trying to get evidence from 
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these people, some of us got harsh on these local people.  To the extent that these people knew, the locals now tended to have a negative attitude towards us.
 Now these people are not well-educated people.  They know that we are from South Africa and they know that in the south the South Africans are killing their brothers.  They said to us but you say you are fighting against the racists in South Africa, but how come now you kill our own people, and yet the racists down south are killing our people.
 There was some disillusionment from the side of the Angolans, they did not want to co-operate with us, and now this was becoming dangerous for us, for our own safety.
 For instance, they didn't mind at the post, at the guard post, just to put the AK there and sleep this side, so that if Unita comes, the Unita can just take his AK and leave him alone.
 This was the case and what happened is that we continued with some missions, because one thing that we were told, is that we were to defend the capital of Malanga province, which is Malange, and Unita was aiming to capture the Malange province.  So we were a buffer between them and Malange.  Sokikosa was strategically a place where, a place which we ... (TAPE 1 - SIDE B).
 ... trying to trace now the Unita rebels, trace from their bases, because we had gathered information that they were across the river, the river Quanla.