Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-13

MR STEWART: But you were involved in shooting to repel the initial attack when the funeral procession first came past the house?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it's like that.

MR STEWART: Now in so far as incident 4 is concerned, is it right that you and I have been through together what is written in this paragraph, the first paragraph under incident 4, and that you can't recall what this was about, you can't sort out the details in your head, is that right?

MR DLAMINI: Yes Chair, I can't quite remember clearly about this.

MR STEWART: And as a consequence of that you withdraw any application in respect of that incident there which is reflected immediately the heading "Incident 4", that one paragraph, is that correct?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it's like that.

MR STEWART: Now in the following paragraph you mentioned an incident where you became injured.  Will you explain what happened there, how it was that you became to be injured.

MR DLAMINI: After this incident I remained there at the Nwabe's residence.  It was myself and Munene person.  We couldn't even go to the shop, and it was difficult for people to even go buy bread from the shop.  Myself and this Trevor Nene, we took money from these people and some few children who assisted us.  There was a tuck-shop nearby, and then we went on foot with the money and the guns that we had ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, sorry, just before you proceed Mr Dlamini, when you say you took money from people, what do you mean, did you rob people of money, or did you get money from them?

MR DLAMINI: No Chair, what I'm saying is that people couldn't walk, go there, so we were actually taking money from the people so that we can buy food for them at the nearby tuck-shop.  We were hit then, with Trevor, the late Trevor, just before we reached that place on our way, we were just hit by the bullet and the people that we were going with just ran away, and no-one asked anyone what is happening now.  I also knelt on my knee and I actually knelt next to those people.  It was a bit dark by then.
	I sat down and then I started shooting towards the people who were shooting us.  Because it was dark and I couldn't even see who was shooting, I also fired.  However it then became apparent it was the ANC people.  I was actually now shooting the soldiers themselves because it was dark, I couldn't see.  And we were actually shooting, exchanging the gunshots there for a long time, and my bullets actually got finished.  
	When I was trying to stand up where I was, trying to go back to look for the bullets, they then shot me and then I was lying down.  That's how I got injured in that place.

MR STEWART: Whereabouts on your body were you injured?

MR DLAMINI: The right foot and the right hand, because it was the trained people.  I also realised that you hold the gun like this, and they actually shot where I was holding the gun.  The were fighting for it so that I can fall down, because I also did not let myself down.  I was shooting, they were actually to shoot the gun and I was wounded - the right foot and the right hand..

MR STEWART: And this injury to your foot or your leg, did that take a long time to heal?

MR DLAMINI: In that year, that was '87, December approximately, that's when I got injured, and then I was hospitalised.  I was released in 1988.  When I left the hospital, when I discharged, it wasn't good at all.  When I was injured I went to this Edendale Hospital.  The leaders came, like Brigadier Sipho Mate, who was the Commissioner of the Kwa-Zulu Police by then and Captain Langene who was working at Ulundi.
	They came to visit me - and MZ Khumalo came to see me.  I couldn't talk by then, I used to be quiet.  Some few days passed by while I was still in hospital, and then I was better, I could then see and talk.  I was in hospital and the police were actually guarding me, two policemen were actually guarding me.  It was after about three months or four months, I can't quite remember, Mudla Induna came with Jabulani Makateni, then they said "we came to fetch you, be ready, we came to fetch you", and I asked them "what do you mean", and they said "no be ready, we came to fetch you".  I couldn't even walk by then.  My leg was hung there up, and my hand was actually hung up.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini, so did they take you from there?

MR DLAMINI: Yes they took me, Mudla Induna and Jabulani Makateni said: "we came to fetch you".  Two police asked if the two people, and then they said "this should go and buy cold drink, and when these two police went to buy drink, they just took me, dragged me, dragged me into the car.  And they dragged me painfully, I couldn't even cry, onto the car, and then they went to Hammarsdale here at home.  I stayed a few days here at home.  "You should remain here, somebody will come and pick you up".

MR STEWART: Is it right that you wanted to get away, this was an escape from the police to get away, am I right?

MR DLAMINI: Chair, as I'm saying, at that particular time I couldn't talk.  This was - everything was happening ...
CHAIRPERSON REQUESTS AUDIENCE TO CALM DOWN AND TO REFRAIN FROM INTERRUPTING THE WITNESS IN HIS EVIDENCE

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini, do you still bear the scars of that injury to your leg?

MR DLAMINI: Yes indeed, I still have that.

MR STEWART: Are you prepared to show that to the Committee to show that you were injured in that way?

MR DLAMINI: Yes I can show them.

MR STEWART: Will you show us now?

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, please calm down.  The witness shows a large scar on his - the witness shows a large scar in the right leg shin.  Please calm down.
	Mr Dlamini when you said you were shot in the foot, you mean you were shot - were you shot where you show the scar on the shin, rather than the foot?

MR DLAMINI: Chair, yes.  It's because I can't even take off the clothes now.  Even here on my thigh bullets did penetrate.  It's the foot, the thigh, the arm, all up.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Stewart?

MR STEWART: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Now Mr Dlamini we don't need to deal with this in detail because it's not that significant to your application, is it right that after having been taken from the hospital you recuperated here in Mpumalanga for a short period and then in Ulundi.  You were then flown to Venda where you spent some recuperating, and subsequently at the Mkuzi camp, is that correct?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it is like that.

MR STEWART: And that in all this time you were being hidden from the police?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it's like that.

MR STEWART: And were there any people in leadership or in command of you who were assisting in hiding you in this fashion?

MR DLAMINI: MZ Khumalo.

MR STEWART: And anyone else?

MR DLAMINI: Captain Langene.

MR STEWART: And anyone else?

MR DLAMINI: Those are the two that I still remember.

MR STEWART: Now is it right Mr Dlamini, that in accordance with your previous evidence in Richards Bay, that once you had recovered and you became active again, you were then stationed in eSikhawini with Mrs Mboyazi, is that right?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it is.

MR STEWART: Were you involved in any other incidents which you are able to remember, specifically in the Mpumalanga and Pietermaritzburg areas?

MR DLAMINI: Yes indeed.

INTERPRETER: I don't think he did get that question.

MR STEWART: The question Mr Dlamini is, other than the incidents you've already told us about, are there any others that you can remember the actual incidents in which you were involved in the Mpumalanga or Pietermaritzburg area?

MR DLAMINI: No there's nothing besides what I've written here.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini, at one point you say that you returned briefly to the area in order to speak with your mother, and you established that your father had died.  Is that right?

MR DLAMINI: Yes it is the truth.

MR STEWART: What were the circumstances of your father's death?