Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-12

WITNESS:   When I was naked they pushed me into the chair and they tied me ankles to the legs of the chair with tube.  They tied my arms to the arm rests.  They put which looked like a wire - they put toilet paper around the end of the wire, they wet it, and they put it inside of the tube, one in my ankle, one underneath my armpit, and one they put between my genitals.  They put a gas mask over my face which was painted black, and then they threw a bucket of water over me.  I then experienced being shocked.  Then the current would come through my leg, then through my armpit, then through my genitals, sometimes they would come all three together.  And this would carry on for quite a while.  They would ask me questions.  Despite the fact that I would answer the question they would still shock me.  They would ask me if I would co-operate.  I would say yes.  They would torture me again.  They later removed the gas mask, and the major said that I will sign an affidavit linking me to the assassination of Dr David Webster.  I refused, and they carried on.  I don't know how long this carried on, but suddenly the questioning and the pressure that they put on me ceased.  This Warrant Nick Dieklifs went and sat in front of me on his hinges, and told me that I was a disgrace of a man, that I had never taught my wife and my family to respect a police officer, that they had phoned and were inquiring where I was and how I was, and that they had spoken to them in a way that not befitting a officer of the police, and because I cannot discipline and teach my wife manners and respect they will teach me.  And he laughed and the proceeded with the electrical shocks.  He told me - while this was going he shouted at me why don't I call my God to release me from the chair, and that I would see that they, the Security Branch, they are God, that not Mandela, not Treurnicht, Terre'Blanche or de Klerk ran this country, but that they ran the country.  I could not speak, my mouth was very dry, my tongue was swollen, and they would give me little sips of water, and I would become unconscious.  They would then throw water over me again and they would proceed with this shock treatment, although I was co-operating, although they weren't even asking me questions.  They then untied the tubes and told me to stand up, to put on my clothes.  I tried to get up out of the chair but I couldn't.  My legs could not hold me and I collapsed on the ground.  They laughed at me and kicked me.  The major put his foot on my head and he said he can squash me like a bug.  He called them all around me, they stood in a circle around me, and they all proceeded to urinate over  me because they said I am a dog, that is what you do to a dog.  Major Pretorius was laughing at me, and he told one of the askaris, "Fetch a limpet mine, then we blow him away."  He said to me that they could put me into a car and detonate the limpet and it would look like I had an accident.  He took out his pistol and he cocked it, and he told me that he could shoot me right there and then.  They brought in a black woman, and he put the gun in my mouth and he said to me I will have intercourse with this woman or he'll kill me, and then they just laughed at me.  They took the woman away.  I remember seeing the fear in her eyes.  They told me to get dressed, and I sat in the room.  The major, Nick Dieklifs, they were all consuming large amounts of alcohol.  In fact the major said I must just wait, he's going to get himself a new drink.  He came back and he told the members, the askari members, to return to Vlakplaas, and he told Eugene Pitout and Chris Lombard to take me - to transfer me to John Vorster Square.  He also told me that I must - that I will be going to see the Magistrate the next day, and that when I go to the Magistrate I must not say anything because they have my friends and they know where my family is, and it doesn't matter what I say to the Magistrate I would still be in their custody.  I don't think I went to the Magistrate the next day.  I remember staying in John Vorster Square a day, and then I went on the Sunday.  (Inaudible - end of side A) ... police stations, and I was kept in solitary confinement in cold, wet cells.  When I had asked for blankets they would say that they aren't available, and every day the questioning would carry on.

MR LAX: Can I just interrupt you there for a moment?  You said that these - they were going to take you to the Magistrate, and you said you don't know if you went on the next day, but on the Sunday you went.  Did you actually go before a Magistrate?

WITNESS:   I went before a Magistrate.

MR LAX: And what did you tell the Magistrate?

WITNESS:   They had briefed me in what to say, and they said it was merely formality.  The Magistrate, he barely looked up at me.  I don't think he was really impressed working on a Sunday.

MR LAX: Do you know who that Magistrate was?  Do you remember his name at all?

WITNESS:   I can't remember him.

MR LAX: But was it a Johannesburg Magistrate, a Sandton Magistrate?

WITNESS:   A Johannesburg Magistrate.

MR LAX: You were obviously afraid, you didn't say anything about your assaults at that point?

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LAX: Now, this questioning continued for quite some time as you've said.  Approximately how long were you in detention for?

WITNESS:   I was in under article 29 for about three months.  I did see a doctor in that time, who had treated me, and I told him what they had done to me.  He just listened, he never answered me, and he said he would prescribe medicine, and that was it.

MR LAX: Where did you see this doctor?

WITNESS:   The first time I saw a doctor was very late in my detention.  After they moved me around I eventually - the last place they kept me was at Protea Police Station in Soweto.

MR LAX: Is that where you saw the doctor?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: You don't know who the doctor was, do you, by any chance?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LAX: So that was at the Protea police cells.

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LAX: Now, you said - is that the only time you saw a doctor during your whole detention, or did you see one later on again?

WITNESS:   No, I saw again afterwards, but prior to me getting to Protea I was held in Krugersdorp, I was held in Klerksdorp, in numerous places.  I had never seen a doctor, I had never seen a Magistrate.  I later found out that I was supposed to have seen a Magistrate, but I never saw a Magistrate.

MR LAX: Now, finally you appeared in court.

WITNESS:   I was taken to court.  I did not mind.  I was happy to go to court.  It felt like you got your life back, some form of control of your own life.  I appeared in Johannesburg Magistrate's Court and was then sent to Johannesburg Prison, or Diepkloof Prison.

MR LAX: Now, in your statement you say that when you got to court you told that Magistrate before whom you appeared of your treatment.  You at that point felt confident enough to say what had happened to you.

WITNESS:   No, I did not tell the Magistrate.

MR LAX: Not at that stage?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LAX: So when did these rumours come out, or when did the story come out?