Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — UNKNOWN

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: Well, the immediate, as the attackwas progressing was horror. My ears were zinging from the gunshots and thenespecially from the two grenade explosions. I was afraid. I had visions of theattackers walking up the isle and shooting the people between the benches asthey were laying down. My concern was for my wife and my one son who was inthe service. I knew my wife was sitting at the entrance. One part of me thoughtshe can't escape, another part of me hoped that she had escaped. The attackcertainly did not last more than a minute. When I got up and people, there werepeople screaming, but immediately after the attack, it was as if a deathly silence,apart from a few screams and groans here and there, settled on the church.

<UNKNOWN>: ndit was like a whoosh as the people went for the exit doors. I went forward tomy wife, saw her still sitting upright. I thought that she might have survived,but she had not.

ADV BEMBRIDGE: I take it that the injuries that you sawaround you at the time, were quite horrific?

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: It was veryhorrific. Three benches in front of me the second handgrenade had landed andit had blown the whole bench apart.

<UNKNOWN>: nd I saw Dimitri Makogon laying there,as I now knew it was Dimitri. He was a bloody mess. I can't remember now thatI actually saw his legs blown off, but it was just blood everywhere, so it wasdifficult to - and then my attention was more focused to my wife. In walkingtowards her, I had to step over the dead bodies of Russians, I knew them, Icould identify them as Russians by their clothing and also by where they weresitting. One had his head blown open and blood was oozing out on the carpetfrom his head wound. Others were mutilatedly shot and were either dying or weredead already. There were about three bodies that I stepped over to reach mywife.

<UNKNOWN>: nd there were, I understand, all people of allages and all race groups ... (tape ends) ... and were wounded in the attack?

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: Well all age groups, children 12 and older, because the under12's had left the service, but yes, there were children. Mr & Mrs Harker'stwo boys, they are in their early teens, there was another teenager, the sonof a Pastor, Richard O'Keele, he was about 17 and then people like my own wifewas 45, I think at the time.

ADV BEMBRIDGE: What, or can you say whatit was that actually stopped the attack?

<UNKNOWN>: t that stage, Ididn't know. I only learnt afterwards that someone had returned fire and thatthis had caused them to flee.

<UNKNOWN>: an you describe the effectof the attack on you yourself personally?

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: I think in a shortsentence, it has devastated my life. Immediately after the attack and afterI had taken my wife to the hospital and where she died about 20 minutes later,I returned to the church in search of my children and was reunited with allof them there. The more longer term effect of the incident has devastated mein the following way in as much as I soon after that event, went into depressionwhich I did not recognise. It caused me to become progressively more unfunctionalin my work, in my ability to show emotion. I was diagnosed as suffering fromanxiety depression about a year later after I was already suicidal. I was hidingit, I was in a leadership position at the time of the attack. I had resignedfrom these leadership positions because I just felt I was not capable of performingthem.

<UNKNOWN>: nd I was not getting help and I was hiding the fact that I was sufferingfrom anxiety depression at that stage. In fact I didn't believe that I had it.It was only when I consulted a Doctor that he diagnosed me as such, that I confidedin my Pastor and also in my employer of my true condition. I was placed on medication,it did not have a good effect on me and I stopped taking the medication. I insteadsought counselling,

<UNKNOWN>: hristian counselling. I also confided in my

<UNKNOWN>: hairman atwork, where he on a continual basis monitored me and my ability to work.

<UNKNOWN>: DV

<UNKNOWN>: EM

<UNKNOWN>: RIDGE I understand that you have since lost your employment as a resultof the trauma you've suffered?

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: That is correct. That is correct.My condition deteriorated. The position that I held was that of Secretary ofan Industrial

<UNKNOWN>: ouncil, now known as a

<UNKNOWN>: argaining

<UNKNOWN>: ouncil for the clothing industry.It is a very demanding position. There were tremendous changes taking placein South

<UNKNOWN>: frica, it was the forum where the Unions and the employers would meetto negotiate. It was the forum where one of the most, the third largest Unionin the

<UNKNOWN>: OS

<UNKNOWN>: TU fold, being S

<UNKNOWN>: TU, came to do their negotiating business and withall the demands of the new South

<UNKNOWN>: frica, the changing-over, the democratisationprocess, the establishment of new health benefits and new Provident

<UNKNOWN>: enefits,it was a tremendous workload that I was in charge of and in the end I was unableto fulfil these tasks.

ADV BEMBRIDGE: What was the effect on your family?

<UNKNOWN>: ecause of my emotional, not only because of my emotional stumping,but certainly my emotions had been stumped, I find it impossible to be angrywith them. I should have anger, but I am not. I instead I am angry with my ownfamily members. It is very difficult for me to say this, but I have a need tosay it. I want them to hear it. I fight more with my children now than whatI ever had before, and we fight about stupid things. I have never cried overthe death of my wife other than have silent cries, but I have never had an emotionalcrying outburst. While Mr Makoma was testifying and he talked about his torturesand that he was suicidal, I could identify with that. I thought to myself andI wrote you a note to bring your cross-examination to an end, because what arewe doing here? The truth yes, but I looked at the way in which he answered youand his anger. How on earth are we going to be reconciled? May I add one thing?I am sorry, while it is in my mind now. I went on record after the event tosay that I hold no personal grudge, that I do not hate them and I stand by that.I also held out reconciliation to them, and I believe with all my heart becauseI've experienced reconciliation with God, through Jesus

<UNKNOWN>: hrist, that it is availableto everybody, including to them.

<UNKNOWN>: nd I held that out to them at the time andI still do so now.

ADV BEMBRIDGE: Perhaps leading on from that Mr

<UNKNOWN>: ckerman,what has been the church's reaction as a whole, to this attack and what effecthas it had on the church community itself?

DAWID JAKOBUS ACKERMAN: In the aftermathof the attack, a super-natural calmness and presence was felt by our church,we couldn't explain it. We just realised that this was of God. I understandfrom

<UNKNOWN>: ishop Retief that international journalists came to him or a group ofjournalists, including international, came to him and asked him please explainto us what is going on here, why are you forgiving, why are you not filled withrage and bitterness and he said that we have always told you that the

<UNKNOWN>: hristianmessage, the

<UNKNOWN>: hristian gospel does have power, now you see it, now you are thewitnesses of it, report that. That is what in the aftermath of the attack, whatit was, what we experienced. It has not been easy, there has been hurts. Therehad been people that have sort of reactions varied, people that couldn't returnto the church again, others that couldn't stay away. I for one couldn't stayaway from, in the immediate days following the massacre, to return to wheremy wife had been shot down. It was a release to me to go there and to be whereshe was killed.

<UNKNOWN>: nd as the time unfolded and the Truth

<UNKNOWN>: ommission started upand I heard the testimonies of my fellow

<UNKNOWN>: lack South