Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR HLONGWANE: I started getting involved within the IFP, that's when they attacked my house and I could not even go out to the shops.  That is when we started fighting, stabbing each other and burning each other's houses down.

MR WILLS: When you say: "each other", am I to assume you were fighting with the IFP against the UDF?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now you say, and you use the words in your affidavit, you say: "you had to participate in the activities of the IFP failing which you would considered an enemy"

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you also say that you regarded the UDF as the enemy, is that correct?  I'm not talking about the IFP generally, I'm referring to your own state of mind after you had joined the IFP.

MR HLONGWANE: It was not just me, everyone in my family regarded the UDF as the enemy.  My parents also told us the UDF was not a good organisation because at that time the UDF had already started stopping people from going to the shops, they used violence.  And at that time our parents, my father at the time was a Xonda and the UDF was against Xondas.

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Hlongwane, if you can just remember to slow down because the Committee Members are writing things down, just talk slowly.  What is a Xonda?

MR HLONGWANE: Xonda were those people who worked as police like the security guards but were not professional.
...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Please be quiet.

MR HLONGWANE: At that time if a girl wore pants she would be beaten.  If they found a male and woman together, they will be beaten.  They would also guard the streets.  That was my father's duty.  One day Samsa told me that I was arrogant like my father, that's where the conflict started.

MR WILLS: Am I to understand that your father was a traditional, a person who believed in the traditional values of Zulu culture very firmly?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you say in your affidavit that in these early days there was intense fighting between the youths, the UDF and the ANC youths, and that there were no firearms that were used, is that correct?  In the early days?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is the truth.

MR WILLS: And so you fought with knives?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, knives and stones.

MR WILLS: Now you also say that your basic job in Mpumalanga was to rid the township of UDF members.

MR HLONGWANE: Not only in the township, there is Summersdale and Georgedale.  At that time there were four sections in the township and then there was Bopele and Georgedale.  We would attack every boy in that area for the reason that they were supposed to be IFP.  If they did not attend meetings we would attack everybody.  If maybe children from a particular household did not attend a meeting we would attack everybody in the house or if there was no-one in the house we would attack the house itself and maybe burn it down.

MR WILLS: Now who told you to do this?  Did anybody tell you to do this or did you decide to do this on your own?

MR HLONGWANE: We would be instructed on Tuesdays and Thursdays.  We named Nkethle's house Las Vegas, the Central Committee Member.

MR WILLS: Sorry, when you say you meet at his house - first of all Mr Hlongwane, you don't have to talk very close to the microphone.  If you talk close to the microphone it creates distortion.  You can keep your head far away and it will pick up your voice.  And also I must remind you again to slow down.  If we have to sit here all day tomorrow to take your evidence that's fine, we're in no hurry.  Do you understand?

MR HLONGWANE: I will apologise because I am not able to speak slowly.

CHAIRPERSON: I think the pace that he's being going at has not been too bad Mr Wills, we can cope with it.

MR WILLS: Thank you.
	Okay.  Now you mentioned that you met at somebody's house on Tuesdays and Thursdays, whose house was this?

MR HLONGWANE: Zakele Nkethle's house who was a Central
Committee Member and he was also a Councillor at Ward 10.

MR WILLS: Now you also say that eventually because of your - the fact that you were loyal and brave you were put in charge of a group of persons, is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, it is so.  I was in charge of a group of Telewene.

MR WILLS: Now you name the people in paragraph 15 of your affidavit as being the persons who you were in charge of, do you confirm that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: I'm not going to go into the details of that at this hearing, I will do that when the people from Mpumalanga are present in the gallery.

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: I want you to refer to paragraph 17 of your affidavit where you say that all of these Inkatha groups were formed with a specific purpose, what was that purpose?

MR HLONGWANE: Will you please repeat the question?

MR WILLS: I say - okay, you speak in your affidavit of three Inkatha groups that were formed in Mpumalanga area, you speak of your own group or the group that was - sorry, Zakele Nkethle's group, you speak of Mrs Khulu's group and you speak Villa Nkuna's group, okay?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Now what was the purpose of these groups, what did they want to do?

MR HLONGWANE: It was to fight the UDF and to kill the UDF.

MR WILLS: Now you say that you had meetings and you also had camps, what happened at these camps?

MR HLONGWANE: We were taught about Inkatha and the dangers of the ANC returning to the country.  Zakele Nkethle used to tell us that if the ANC returned we would never have our women and they would also take our houses, cars and if you were a shop owner they would take everything.

MR WILLS: And how did that make you feel?

MR HLONGWANE: I was very angry.  I was very angry that a person can just come and grab my belongings without permission, that was the reason why I hated the UDF.

MR WILLS: You also indicate that you received assistance from the KwaZulu Police in these operations and you refer to two persons, particularly you refer to one person, Jabulani Makatini and another person whom you recall as a policeman by the name of Kaluse, do you recall that?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Those are the persons that you can remember?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR WILLS: When you say the KwaZulu Police helped you, what do you mean?

MR HLONGWANE: There were police who were known in the township as Amakesi and they used to travel an NO kombi.  When the fighting intensified between the Inkatha and UDF they helped by giving us ammunition.  That was the assistance that they gave us.  And they would also inform us of the whereabouts of our opponents.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And you say that you yourself personally received ammunition from Jabulani Makatini who is a KwaZulu policeman, is that right?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, that is so.

MR WILLS: It wasn't only the KwaZulu Police that helped you, it was also the South African Police, is that not correct?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, there was van Vuuren and Steenkamp.  Van Vuuren was a Warrant Officer and the other one was a Sergeant at the time.

MR WILLS: How did they help you?

MR HLONGWANE: They did not help me personally but they helped the IFP.  If we were to attack or maybe if somebody was going to be arrested they would tell us that this person was going to be arrested and they will inform us of when that person would return.  If that person did not return, a Central Committee member would be informed and that person would have to be fetched.  They reported to us.  I forgot to mention Smith who was a Station Commander at Hammersdale.  Before a person was arrested we would sit down at Las Vegas, Zakele Nkethle's house and discuss whether this person should indeed be arrested when he would receive bail.  That is the kind of assistance that they gave us.

MR WILLS: And did they do anything in regard to firearms or ammuntion?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes, we did not have ammunition, we would get this from them.