Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-14

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: There are two attacks in which I was involved in Zastron.  The first one, we were three, it was myself, Roger and Mduna.  We had lots of cocktails, with the intention to go and attack at that particular farm.  We arrived there and used molotovs.  After that - there was no resistance which we encountered during that operation.  We retreated back to Transkei.  We burned the graze land.  After that we crossed to Transkei.  I'm not sure of the estimated damage, what I know is that the veld was burned. I'm not quite sure about the damage in the house, because we did not use many molotovs.  We threw these molotovs through the windows, inside the house.  After that we returned to Transkei.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Did you first, did you make any reconnaissance of the place and what did you discover during the reconnaissance of the place?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: The reconnaissance was done by Kleintjie but on the particular day of the attack, there was a problem because it was at night.  The people who were involved in the reconnaissance were not able to do that during that time because it was at night.  We decided that we should come back.  When we returned we met Comrade Letlapa.  Then he was briefed.  Then the following day it was late when he returned, but I should be present so that I should lead the attack.  All in all we were six and we split into two groups.  In my group it was Roger who was involved in the reconnaissance, therefore I was led by him because of his observations during the reconnaissance.  Therefore we split into - the second group involved Kleintjie, who was also involved in the reconnaissance.  Therefore we executed the operation.  The reason for the attack was that firstly it was an area which was used by whites and it is of benefit to the economy of the country because economically the white people there were helping to make the economy stable or grow and they also benefitted individually from that economy.  Therefore again, the - secondly the far workers - the farmers were members of the Commando structures and some of them were reservists, therefore we wanted to increase the liberated zones so that when we progress as liberation army, we'll be able to use those places as a springboard for further attacks.  That is why we intended to do that operation.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, can you then, Mr Khotle, go to the second farm.  Can you be able to specify and say this was this area in Zastron and the other one was in this area in Zastron?  Are you able to tell the Committee exactly?

JUDGE DE JAGER: Or perhaps the dates of the attack.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Or as the Member of the Committee indicates, the dates of the attacks?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: I'm not sure of the names of the farms, what I remember is that one is near the river between Transkei and the Republic of South Africa, after you've passed Walazar.  From Walazar you turn right.  Walazar is in the Transkei and you turn right.  It is within the - it is near the river where Walazar was and it bordered South Africa and Transkei.  The other one is from the direction - it's near Cuthbert which is in the Transkei.  Also from Cuthbert you turn left.  That is the explanation I can offer about these farms.  The other one is near bluegum, then from there you cross the river, then the farm is just near the river.  That is the only explanation I can give in terms of the description of these two farms.  Unfortunately I don't have sufficient details to offer this Committee.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you remember the dates, or you can't remember the dates or the year?

CHAIRPERSON: Page 35 gives an indication, could you confirm it?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Page 35 Chairperson, both of them I agree they were in 1992, Chairperson.  I wondered whether he remembers maybe at the beginning or at the end, the other one, when was the first one and when the second one.  Are you able to do that Mr Khotle?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: Yes, it was 1991, but I'm not sure of the months.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's say you were also involved in the Ficksburg attacks, let's take it from there because there you are able to say, to estimate and say, mid to late 1992.  Now the Zastron attacks and the Ficksburg attack, which one took place first?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: Zastron operations happened first.

JUDGE DE JAGER: And was it before the Wesselsbron operation?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: The Wesselsbron operation was in 1993.

JUDGE DE JAGER: ...(indistinct - mike not on)

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike.

JUDGE DE JAGER: ...(indistinct) round about 1991, 1992, is that correct, you operated in Zastron?  You're not sure of the dates.

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: In 1992 I was in Zastron.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Okay.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you then proceed?  Go to the second incident Mr Khotle, just please tell the Committee about the second incident.  How many were you and how were you armed?
MR KHOTLE
In this second operation we were five, it was myself, Scorpion Totina is one person, the third person was King, the fourth one was Roger, the fifth person was Kleintjie.  The reconnaissance for that attack was done by me.  There was a problem.  There was a house, supposed to be occupied by the owner of the farm and there were also houses supposed to be  occupied by the employees and there was also a place where the cows were fed.  Now that was the - there was a problem.  We noticed that either way, the owners of the farm do not live there.  They took Africans and they made them live in that house that was supposed to be occupied by them.   As a result we decided, yes, even if it was occupied by an African, but it qualified to be the target.  This does not mean Africans were automatically targets because they were in that house, we thought they were being used as shields and we had to minimise so that at the end the operation is carried, but there are no injuries, that is referring to the farm workers, so that not one of them gets injured.
		I was armed with a 7.65.  We had a stun gun as well and we had Molotovs and we had grenades that were not functioning well, the mechanism was not working well, but we took them anyway, so that at the time of throwing the molotovs, the information we do not have is correct, we'd throw them in the fire and they will explode through the help of the fire.   
		So we left then for the farm and on our arrival, that is when we approached, many dogs approached us.  We advanced towards them and they shied away to another room, where we threw the molotovs and people screamed inside, they cried.  Now that was the impression, the impression that I got out of that was that the people who were crying were the farm workers.  Now I concluded that they were being used as shields, the owners of the house were not in the house, they might have been living in town.  	Now during the course of throwing these molotovs, I took out another instruction.  I said the throwing of molotovs should be stopped, only to find that they had been thrown already and then we retreated.  Kenny, who has since died, had the grenades and the sabotaged hand grenades.  The initial instruction was not to throw the grenade in case it is noticed that the occupiers of the house are Africans, but during this whole incident, it happened that he dropped the grenade.  
		We thereafter retreated and then we burned the veld and we went back to the Transkei.  I wanted to know, at a certain point, who was left where and whether there were any casualties and that is where I learned that Kenny dropped that sabotaged hand grenade and that was the end of the operation.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Was anybody injured by this hand grenade?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: It did not explode Sir and to my knowledge it never exploded.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Will I be correct to say  at the present moment you are still standing trial for those farm attacks?

ABEL OUPA KHOTLE: After being granted amnesty  - no, no, I was granted amnesty and the charges were withdrawn.