Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-18

MR VISSER: The next witness I wish to call is Mr Lawrence Gerald Wasserman.  His statement is Exhibit D before you.  He will give his evidence in English and he is prepared to take the oath, Chairperson.

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Wasserman, you gave evidence previously last week before this Committee?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Chairman.

MR VISSER: Do you confirm your evidence and the confirmation of the documents and other evidence which you made last week again today?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I do, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Were you involved in the incident which took place which is known as the Quarry Road incident?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Can you address the Committee and tell the Committee what you remember of this incident from page 2 onwards?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Okay Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: I'm sorry Chairperson, I neglected to say that the amnesty application is from page 40 to 54 in the bundle, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR VISSER: Yes please continue?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, on a Sunday of what I'm reminded was the 7th September 1986, I was summoned by Col Taylor to go to the kwaMashu Police Station.  Upon my arrival there and later during the day a large number of the police congregated there.  I was informed that a gang of MK terrorists which had operated in the Durban area was observed entering a certain house where according to information available they had previously left weapons and ammunition after an attack on the wife and children of an IFP member.

MR VISSER: Now I must ask you this question now because we'll later come back to that, did you personally know where this particular house was situated?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I did not, Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Alright, well continue then?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: I was told that the house was being kept under observation by certain members of the Security Branch who were in radio contact with the police station and a description of the terrorist car was also given.  I was informed that no attempt was to be made to arrest the four terrorists at the house as that would compromise an informer and the plan was to allow them to drive away from the house whereafter the reaction unit would intercept the vehicle and execute arrests.
	As Maj General Steyn was present, I fell directly under his command.

MR VISSER: But who directed the operation on the ground?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: It was General Steyn, he was my commander on the ground, Sir.

MR VISSER: Your commander?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: And who would arrest the - or perhaps we'll come to it.  You can just go on?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: At a certain point a message was received over the radio that the suspects had left the house and had driven off.  A frantic scurry took place with everybody jumping into vehicles and setting off with a view of intercepting the terrorists.
	I landed up in a kombi mini-bus with two Black members, Lembede and Nduli.

MR VISSER: Lembede is spelt L-E-M-B-E-D-E and Nduli is spelt N-D-U-L-I?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Correct, Mr Chairman.  The latter drove the kombi.  I was seated on the seat behind the front seat and the three of us were armed with service pistols only.  We stayed as close as possible to the car in which General Steyn and Mr Botha were travelling.  At some stage we noticed the vehicle of the suspects travelling North to South along the N2, this is a three lane freeway.  It was a wild chase which went on for about 5 to 6 kilometres.
	Mr Botha's car was to the left and slightly behind the suspects car and we were to the right.  At one point I say Botha's car draw up alongside the suspects' car and I saw Botha waving out the window to indicate them to stop.  The suspects' car then executed two or three sharp swerves to the left in an obvious effort to ram Botha and Steyn off the road.  Nduli accelerated and drew alongside the fugitive's car.  It immediately swerved sharply to it's right and collided with the kombi and at this point Lembede opened fire at the suspects.  I heard other shots being fired as well.
	I then opened the sliding door of the kombi.  I was tossed around inside of the vehicle as a result of the hectic way in which Nduli had to drive and it was a life threatening situation which was ameliorated only by good, excellent driving skills of Nduli.  I was unable to get a steady aim but I fired in the direction of the vehicle and might have hit one or more of the occupants.

MR VISSER: Can you tell us how many rounds you fired?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Mr Chairman, I fired a magazine, 15 rounds.

MR VISSER: Fifteen rounds?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Yes.

MR VISSER: And all of this, can you give us the angle at which you fired at that vehicle?  Were all the shots fired while the two vehicles were travelling in exactly the same position in relationship to each other or what was the position?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: No, Mr Chairman, it was from side being parallel with and then the vehicle behind us as well but all from the right hand side.

MR VISSER: All from that vehicle's right hand side?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: The driver's side of the vehicle.

MR VISSER: Out of the left hand side of the kombi?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Left hand side of the kombi, yes.

MR VISSER: Did Mr Nduli fire any shots?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: No, he was the driver but Mr Lembede fired.

MR VISSER: Can you please continue?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Apart from our firing I heard other shots, one or two being fired.  I could not tell whether the shots came from the mini-bus or from elsewhere.

MR VISSER: When you refer to the mini-bus, you're referring to Mr Lembede firing from in front of you, you couldn't tell whether it was his shots or came from elsewhere, is that what you're saying?

LAWRENCE GERALD WASSERMAN: Well actually here, Mr Chairman, some of these shots must have been Mr Lembede but his hands were outside the vehicle so it would have been his and other shots coming from the other side.

MR VISSER: Alright.