Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-13

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Sir, I believe I'm a soldier, I'm an African soldier and you are given an instruction.  No matter what the circumstances, you do not tell the truth.  Rather than telling the truth, you rather kill yourself.  I was now hiding the secret of the organisation.  Had I opened the case, had I opened my mouth that I was fulfilling and carrying forward the operations of APLA, I would have let the cat out of the bag and the Government of oppression was going to protect the farmers and our intentions would never be furthered.  Now I was protecting the organisation by not telling what I am telling here today.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson I know I said finally but there is one point I would like to canvass and it will be the last point.  You indicated that you joined PAC in 1990, am I correct?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Yes, you are correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Around when did you join PAC in 1990?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: On the 23rd of August, here in Phahameng, Bloemfontein.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct that you were well-versed with the leadership of the PAC?  You knew the leadership of the PAC well?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Yes, I knew that.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you know who was leading the PAC then?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Yes.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who was leading the PAC?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: It was Mr Mofishli Dikotsi, he was the Chairperson of the PAC in the Free State.

MR MBANDAZAYO: No, I didn't ask Free State, I'm asking the PAC national leadership.

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Yes, I knew.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who was the leader of the PAC?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: It was Clarence Makwetu, his deputy was Motsoko Pheku, Secretary-General was Benny Alexander, those are the people I still remember.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Do you still remember the founding President of the PAC?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: Very well so.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who was he?

PITSO PETRUS PELEO: It's Robert Sobukwe.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson, that is all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Surely you don't have questions?

MS MTANGA: No, Chairperson, no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Peleo for having come forward to testify.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Is that your case Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's the case for the applicant, Chairperson, that's all.

CHAIRPERSON: I would request short submissions.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, I'm in a difficult position, I must say so.
	Firstly the incident itself, that unfortunately myself as I normally know some of the names used in the liberation movements, unfortunately the one Dlogodlo I couldn't  come up with.  Secondly I know Tabiso Makwala, luckily he was one of the applicants in  one of the incidents, who subsequently died, but the problem I'm faced with is the question, the timing of the whole thing.  The applicant was in jail when this whole thing was planned and it was hardly three days when he left prison and he was given an instruction to go and - on this mission.  Now I don't want to put my neck on a block.  I know that the Committee will come and ask me questions because I used to make submissions on how the operations went and how APLA was operating.  Well definitely, I have to concede that this one, definitely Chairperson, was not in terms of what I understand and what I know and Chairperson, as well that there is this element of sexual assault, rape, in this matter, which of course, Chairperson, that puts me in a very, very difficult position to argue anything on that.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Ja, I understand your position and we've heard his explanation about it and it's whether we accept it or not, but we understand your position.  No I don't thinks it's necessary for you to further address us on the issue of rape, we follow your submissions in that regard and we've heard his evidence and his explanation.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, thank you.  Chairperson, mine is to say to the Committee, you have heard the evidence and have listened to the applicant and the witness and the Court records and everything, mine is to say that I think, Chairperson, without adding anything or diluting what has been said by the applicant and the witness and what the records are saying, this information is enough for the Committee to reach a fair and just decision in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Ms Mtanga?

MS MTANGA: Chairperson, I have no submissions to make.  I leave this matter in your hands.
NO SUBMISSIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  The Committee reserves it's decision.  It shall be given as soon as possible.  I would give an undertaking personally that a decision shall have been reached by the end of this month, a written one for that matter.  You can hold me to that Mr Mbandazayo.  Thank you very much.  Thank you for your assistance.  Mr Peleo, the applicant, Mr Tuis, would be informed in due course, that is two weeks from hence about the decision of this Committee.  We shall have to deliberate about it.  You are excused and he is also excused.  Anything further on our role, Ms Mtanga?

MS MTANGA: Yes, Chairperson, our next matter is the application of Mr Thejane and I have noticed that both representatives are here.
	 Would the Committee consider excusing the prison officials?

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying the people from Correctional Services, whom they've got to take back.

MS MTANGA: Yes, Chairperson, unless the Committee is of the view that we will be able to hear Mr Pudumo after this matter and by looking at the time, I don't think that it will be possible.

CHAIRPERSON: It doesn't look possible.  Thank you very much.  We would commence at the same time tomorrow, that is 9 a.m. and we'll start with Mr Pudumo immediately.  Thank you very much, Gentlemen.  We'll give you time to take the applicants back to the various places of safe custody.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, can the interpreters have a 5 minutes break please?
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS