Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1998-03-30

CHAIRPERSON: This is the application of Mr Niewoudt in respect of the death of Mr Biko and an assault on Mr Jones.  Yes, Mr Booyens?

ADV BOOYENS: Thank you Mr Chairman and members of the Committee, I appear on behalf of the applicant Mr Niewoudt, instructed by Van der Merwe and Bester.  I call the applicant.

GEORGE BIZOS: May it please you Mr Chairman and members of the Committee.  I appear on behalf of the Biko family, to oppose the application for amnesty, together with my learned friend, Mr Patric Mtshaulana and instructed by the Legal Resources Centre.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: (sworn states)

ADV BOOYENS: Mr Niewoudt, please refer to your application.	  Do you confirm page 1?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: Page 2?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: Page 3?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: Page 4.

ADV DE JAGER: I beg your pardon, are you referring to the bundle of documents, bundle 1 page 24, is that what you are referring to?

ADV BOOYENS: Chairperson, unfortunately we were never placed in possession of the official bundle, so that is why I am referring to Mr Niewoudt's application, when I refer to page numbers, I am referring to the typed page numbers at the top of his application.
	On page 4 paragraph 7, there you are referring to John McEwan, something which was conveyed to you, can you please tell us where that was?  That is page 4, paragraph 7 Chairperson.

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Chairperson, this was during lectures and training courses where this extract was conveyed to us.

ADV BOOYENS: Do you then confirm page 5?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Niewoudt, may I read it to you and I want you to tell us how it influenced you.  Winning a revolutionary war will take mass organisation, dedication sacrifice and time.  The government must decide early if it is willing to pay the price.  Half measures lead only to protected costly defeats.
	What did you understand by this and how did it affect or influence you?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: The way I understood it is the following that all measures should be used to protect the government of the Republic of South Africa and to keep them in power, and whatever methods would be used, would be justifiable, that is what I thought at that stage.
	And that one could use all methods at one's disposal.

CHAIRPERSON: To do what?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: To protect the government especially in its fights against the total onslaught and the overthrow of the government which was a threat at the time.

ADV BOOYENS: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Page 5, 6, 7 and 8 up to paragraph 9(a), do you confirm that?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: Just briefly, the incident that we are dealing with here, took place in 1977?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: And what was your rank in 1977?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: I was a junior Sergeant at the Branch Mr Chairperson.

ADV BOOYENS: Just for the sake of completeness, in your application you said that your immediate superior or immediate Commanding Officer was Major Fisher, is that correct?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: That is correct.

ADV BOOYENS: And he was the Commanding Officer of the so-called black desk?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: That is right.

ADV BOOYENS: Could you please tell us what was the size of the Eastern Cape Security Police and where did you fit into the hierarchy of that Branch at the time?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: As far as my white colleagues are concerned, I was the lowest in rank in my particular section, and even as far as the Security Branch in Port Elizabeth as a whole is concerned, it was the Commanding Branch of the entire Eastern Cape, Cradock, Grahamstown and Uitenhage.
	At that stage we didn't deal with the border area and our Commanding Officer was Colonel Goosen, he was the Divisional Commander.  Major Fisher was in charge of the black affairs desk, he was the head of that desk.
	Then there was the white affairs  section or desk, a Captain was in charge of that section.  Then there was the coloured and Asian desk.   Major Snyman was in charge of that.  And then there was also an administrative affairs section, it was a small branch.

ADV BOOYENS: You said that you were the lowest ranking Officer or member in the white component.  Were there any white Constables in that Branch?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: No, only black colleagues.

ADV BOOYENS: So you were the lowest ranking white person at that stage?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes.

ADV BOOYENS: Paragraph 9(a), there you give particulars of the acts for which you request amnesty?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: That is correct.

ADV BOOYENS: The paragraphs are numbered there as well.  Some of the other applicants have already had their applications finalised, and you refer to Marx and Beneke who were Warrant Officers.  Snyman and Siebert, where did they fit in?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: They were attached to the coloured and Asian desk and Snyman was in charge of that.

ADV BOOYENS: What was Snyman's rank at that stage?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: He was a Major.

ADV BOOYENS: Siebert?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Siebert was a Captain.

ADV BOOYENS: Paragraph 2 on page 9 of your application, there you deal with the issue of unrest in the country.  Please in your own words, sketch for us what the situation was on the ground as from 1976 onwards, and specifically referring to the situation in the Eastern Cape by 1977, that is more or less the time of the detention of the deceased, Mr Biko, that is August 1977?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Mr Chairperson, on the 16th of June 1976, that is the day when the unrest and the riots erupted as a result of the issue of Afrikaans as medium of instruction in the schools in Soweto.
	On the 17th of August of 1976, the riots started in Port Elizabeth, and that led to total anarchy.  Schools were burnt down, vehicles were burnt, police vehicles were burnt out and black police members had their homes attacked.  Delivery vehicles entering the black areas were robbed, burnt and the beer halls belonging to the administration boards were totally burnt down and robbery took place there as well.
	The riots started as a result of the fact that Afrikaans was the medium of instruction as part of the so-called Bantu Education policy, and it was a defiant action against the Education system of the State and it led to total anarchy.   Everything was orientated towards black power at that stage, and the ANC and the SACP played a very minimal role at that stage.
	Black power was at that stage the leading internal revolutionary organisation.  
	The situation escalated and people who had done certain building operations to their homes, found that their homes were also attacked and burnt because the inference was drawn that those people had to have received money from the State to be able to build and renovate their homes.
	Innocent people were burnt, and their homes attacked, there was a total boycott and that spilt over right down to 1978 after the banning of all black power organisations, BPC, SASO and all related organisations.

ADV BOOYENS: For the record, BPC is Black Persons' Convention, and there is also the South African Students' Organisation, that you have referred to, is that correct?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: That is correct.

ADV BOOYENS: The black power organisations that you have referred to, BBC and SASO etc, the deceased in this matter Mr Biko and the other affected person, to call him that, Mr Jones, did they play any role in those actions at all?

GIDEON JOHANNES NIEWOUDT: Yes, in the riots, that was the information at our disposal.

ADV BOOYENS: Could you please tell us what the information was that was conveyed to you?  What role did they play personally and what role did the organisations to which they were attached, play?