Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-21

MR SIBANYONI: I know I said finally, Mr Chairman, but can you, am I correct to say that you were trying to reconstruct the incident that happened in 1992, three years thereafter with the lady who was involved in the incident?

MR OELOFSE: That is correct.  Those were the points that they showed me and where we marked them and took the photographs.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV SANDI: No questions, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman I hoped to have called Mr Fransisco who was a colleague of Mr van Rooyen from the bakery in Sterkspruit.  Either he is not yet arrived.   I then wish to call Miss Alda Tsemane, this is another sister.

MS H TSEMANE: I'm ...(indistinct) from Bloemfontein.  I'm the eldest daughter of Mr James Tsemane.

ADV SANDI: ...(inaudible) swear her in.

MS H TSEMANE: (duly sworn in states)

MR PRIOR: Madam, is it correct, you are the daughter of the deceased in this matter, Mr James Tsemane?

MS H TSEMANE: Yes, I'm the eldest daughter of the deceased.

MR PRIOR: You are talking on behalf of your widowed mother, Mrs Tsemane.

MS H TSEMANE: No, I'm talking on behalf of all the Tsemane children.

MR PRIOR: Where you at the time of your father's tragic death of the 19th of November 1992, where were you living?

MS H TSEMANE: I was in Bloemfontein.

MR PRIOR: And we understand from what we've heard that your father lived in Sterkspruit.  Is that correct?

MS H TSEMANE: Yes that is correct.

MR PRIOR: And he worked at a bakery in Sterkspruit?

MS H TSEMANE: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Do you know, or do you remember the name of that bakery?

MS H TSEMANE: No, I don't remember the name of the bakery.

MR PRIOR: Yes, you've indicated that you'd like to talk on behalf of the children of the deceased.  Could you proceed then and ask questions.

MS H TSEMANE: I would like to talk directly to the applicant.  I wonder whether Mr Martin and James know of the cost to the people of the family members of the deceased.  I'm not expecting answers from them, but I would like to hear how they feel about what they did.  My father wasn't into politics.  He was a very respected person in the community.  He had no discrimination against anyone.  He worked for his family and the community.  He was also an assistant to "Sebota".  My father never killed anyone to help the other person.  He took my mum's friend away from her and many children.  Some of these children had to leave school because they had financial problems.  Presently as I am speaking here some of the children who have finished school were helped by the white person that you hated.  Even your, even you own brothers and sisters are being helped by white guys whom your parents worked for, work for.  I would like to withdraw from killing white people.  We have learnt a lot of things from white people, whether they are bad or good.  My sister asked James whether he was asking for forgiveness from us only, although my father and Ms Brummer got killed, whose blood mixed in the car.  As I understand you mixed the blood of the two people to make a sacrifice for freedom.  Now how do you divide the blood of the two deceased when you ask for forgiveness from only us?

MR PRIOR: We must apologise for that sound you keep hearing on your machine.  It's caused by the electrical power, it's not very stable, unfortunately, so it's nothing we can do about it.  Just so that everyone understands.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, I don't want to stop this witness from continuing to tell us this, but is this the right stage of the proceedings?  Is she going to give us any evidence dealing with the merits of the application?

MR PRIOR: Unfortunately I was going to call Miss Alda Tsemane, and this lady came in her stead.  I hadn't precognised her at all, but I think she, having commenced, I don't think she's got very far to go, and ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well, we'll continue, but then I think we should take care of other witnesses at this stage, deal with the merits.

MR PRIOR: Yes, I'm alive to that.  Well she going to be, if we stop her now, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Let her continue if you say she hasn't much longer to go.

MR PRIOR: Please proceed ma'am.

MS H TSEMANE: As I said that you've mixed the blood of these two deceased and you want to divide it again.  My father died because of a white person.  I wonder how are you going to die, you.  What is the death that is accepted in heaven?  We are unable to forgive you because you ask for forgiveness about things we have already forgotten about.  You are only causing us heartbreak about the past.  You were only out to please your Comrades, that you call Africans, whose names you don't want to disclose.  All you want to do is to appear on TV.  I can't see any truth in what you've said.  Let justice take its course against you.  This is your own medicine.  Taste it.  We thank the Truth Commission because today we know how our dad died.  You the killers, I am merciful to your parents because no parents want to bore, or to bear a killer.  I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I take it you have no questions yet.

MR SIBANYONI: None, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Madam.  I call Miss Alda Tsemane.

MS A TSEMANE: (duly sworn in states)

MR PRIOR: Miss Tsemane, I just need some information about your father.  We understand he was married to your mother.  You mother still is living, is that correct.

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, she's still alive.

MR PRIOR: During 1992 at the time of his death, he was living with your mother in Sterkspruit?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes it is true.

MR PRIOR: Did you also live in the Sterkspruit area?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, it is true.

MR PRIOR: How many children did your father and mother have?  Can you just tell the Committee, how many daughters, how many sons?

MS A TSEMANE: We are many.  I think we were eighteen.  There were five sons and thirteen daughters.  All in all we are eighteen and one has passed away.

MR PRIOR: Were you a close family?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, Sir.

MR PRIOR: Now, Mr Chairman, may I just ask that the public, particular the second row, they seem to find the evidence of this witness particular amusing.  If the public would just be reminded that this is quite a difficult time for the family and that they respect that feeling of the family, please.  I'm indebted to the Committee.  I hope that's been translated.
   Miss Tsemane, your father worked at the bakery, is that correct?   In Sterkspruit.

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, it is true, he worked at the bakery, until his death.

MR PRIOR: And how long had he worked there?

MS A TSEMANE: He started working there in 1970.

MR PRIOR: And we understand, we've heard that Mr van Rooyen was, was he the owner or the manager of the bakery?  He also worked there.

MS A TSEMANE: He was the manager of the bakery.  Initially the bakery belonged to Jimmy Nathan, and when he left he left it with Mr van Rooyen.

MR PRIOR: Mr Louis Fransisco, was he also employed at the bakery?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, it is so.

MR PRIOR: And did you know those two men?   Apart from just knowing of them, did you know them on a personal basis?

MS A TSEMANE: I only knew that as working at the bakery, because they stayed in Lady Grey, not Sterkspruit.

MR PRIOR: And like Mrs Brummer, is it correct they commuted on a daily basis from Lady Grey to Sterkspruit to work at their respective employment?

MS A TSEMANE: Yes, it is so.  They used to go to their work places everyday.

MR PRIOR: Now, in questions that you've put to Mr Makoala this morning, you indicated that Mr van Rooyen, at least, had been involved in an attack, and it seems that that was an attack referred to by the applicants where they were trying out their petrol bombs.  Did you know of that incident from what the community was saying, or from any information that came to your attention?

MS A TSEMANE: As I said earlier, I said Mr van Rooyen was working with my dad.  That's how I came to know of that.