Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-14

ABEL MULADY: Well, my request is that the statement shall be regarded as null and void in this application.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

ABEL MULADY: Because I now realise that there is a lot of conflicting evidence, when I am listening to the way it had been read.

CHAIRPERSON: All right, now let me tell you, or let me ask you then to be fair, you have read the contents of the statement?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: When you made the statement, did you make a statement to the Police?  Did you make this statement to the Police?

ABEL MULADY: This statement when I was arrested, I was beaten heavily and I was made to say that I had to be a State witness, therefore I had to say in order to protect myself.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you have made a statement had you not been beaten?

INTERPRETER: Sorry, just repeat please.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you have made the statement or signed the statement, had you not been beaten?

ABEL MULADY: Well, if I had not been beaten before writing the statement, I would have signed although I had already been beaten, I was forced to do that as well.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, would you have otherwise have made the statement if you weren't beaten?

ABEL MULADY: No.  I would not have made that statement in that way.

CHAIRPERSON: There you have it.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairman.   Okay, let's forget about the statement, can I just ask you have you ever heard of a letter that Mr Edward Mahvunga wrote after the Chief spoke to him about these allegations against him?

CHAIRPERSON: The letter was addressed to the community?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, I would say that it was addressed to the community and handed to the Chief, yes, thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you heard of such a letter?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, I heard about the letter.

CHAIRPERSON: Why are we struggling about it for the last ten minutes, the Attorney has been asking you about it for how long,  because he has heard about this letter.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Is it not so that the idea was that that letter should have been read by the Chief to the community so that every one can know what the contents of that letter is, that was the plan?

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know about that?

ABEL MULADY: Repeat the question.

CHAIRPERSON: You know about this letter that was handed to the Chief, was the Chief not supposed to have read this letter out to the community?

ABEL MULADY: Well, I know the letter which was given to the Chief, the Headman by the people, I don't know about a letter which was given to the Headman by the late.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes.  Do you by any chance have heard what the contents of that letter is?

CHAIRPERSON: He says he doesn't know about such a letter.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Oh.

CHAIRPERSON: He knows about a letter that was given by the community to the Chief.

MR VAN RENSBURG: I understand.  I just want to get this clear if you can just give me an opportunity, thank you Mr Chairman.  So you say you have never heard of a letter which the deceased was supposed to have written and was addressed to the community and handed to the Chief, you have never heard of such a letter?

ABEL MULADY: No, I never heard about that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: I see.  Okay, you were sentenced to five years imprisonment for the public violence count and 15 years imprisonment for the arson and the murder, is that correct?

ABEL MULADY: Yes, it is true.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And that is the most severe sentence that all the applicants that are here today, has received for their role in this murder and arson?  It is the worst sentence, that you have received?

ABEL MULADY: Well, I did not get what I worked for in an orderly manner.

MR VAN RENSBURG: The question is was any of the other applicants, did they receive a sentence of 15 years for the arson and the murder and five years for the public violence, did anyone receive such a heavy sentence, except you?

ABEL MULADY: Amongst us, there is no other person who received such a heavy sentence.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Okay, now what I would like to know is do you know why you have received the most severe sentence of all of them?

CHAIRPERSON: The Judge reasoned that you were the leader?  What do you say about that?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairman.

ABEL MULADY: Well, I understand that the Judge took that decision after hearing the different statements from many people and the way they were expressing themselves and perhaps he was influenced to take that decision that I shall be the leader in that situation, whereas ...

ADV DE JAGER: Could you just tell us, were you in fact a leader during the operations of the burning of the house and the killing of the deceased?

ABEL MULADY: Well, I don't regard it like that personally.  People may, like I have explained before ...

CHAIRPERSON: You were the one that went to find the petrol, you were the one that found the tyre, you were the one that lit the tyre, you were the one who put the tyre while it was lit, on the body of the deceased?  Do you not consider that a leading role?

ABEL MULADY: Well, today as I am being told, I can say that I was the leader.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ABEL MULADY: Today.

CHAIRPERSON: No, but you always knew that you did that, not so?  You knew you played a leading role in that man's death and in the whole attack?

ABEL MULADY: No.

CHAIRPERSON: You didn't know that, someone told you today that you were the one that put the tyre on the man's body?  Is that what you are saying?

ABEL MULADY: Well, what I am saying is that I am trying to express that the judgement that was given in those days and the time, was taken despite the fact that I was not in agreement with that.  However, what I am saying today in this Commission, I am trying to say that I agree with them in them saying that I am or I was the leader in the group that was involved on the specific day.  I will agree with that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Mr Mulady, I put it to you that you are trying to downplay this leading role and thereby wilfully trying to mislead the leading role or your involvement, pardon, let me just rephrase that, I put it to you that you wilfully are trying to mislead this Committee by downplaying your leader role that you played on that day.

ABEL MULADY: What I am saying is that in court when they sentenced me, I didn't realise that I was the leader, however today, I am in agreement with the fact that I was the one who was the leader of a group regarding the role that I played in taking the tyre and putting petrol on it, lighting and putting it on top of the deceased's body.  I do agree now that I on that day, played the major role, I agree with that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you.  The leader of the Youth Congress, what was his name again?

ABEL MULADY: One of the applicants said it was Finnias Mulady.

MR VAN RENSBURG: I am asking you what was his name.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know what was his name?

ABEL MULADY: Well, the name of the leader of the Mahvunga Youth Congress, I now know that it was Finnias Mulady although when it was selected, I wasn't in.  However now, when it is now clear, I can now connect it and say the leader was Finnias (indistinct) Mulady.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes, was he there on the day?

ABEL MULADY: Please say that ...

MR VAN RENSBURG: Was he there on the day of the 6th of April?

ABEL MULADY: It was so full, I can't tell exactly whether he was in or not, I can't tell exactly whether he was in or not, because it was full.

ADV DE JAGER: I want to know whether this leader in fact as a leader, called you together and said "let's go there, let's go and get this man out of the house", was this a decision of the meeting and did the leader of your organisation say "listen, let's go, let's do this and do another thing" or did you act on your own in doing all these things?