Human Rights Violation Hearings — Piet Retief — 1997-05-21

CHAIRPERSON: ...But before I ask him to take over I would like Mr Hugh Lewin to help you in taking the oath if you will just stand please.

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: (sworn states)

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Mthethwa, who are you with, who is sitting beside you?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: It's my wife.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You are welcome Mrs Mthethwa.  Mr Mthethwa, what are you doing now, that is work-wise.

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: I'm a driver.

THOMAS MANTHATA: You are a driver for a firm or an own driver, self employed driver?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: I'm working for Lewis.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.  Can you please tell us what happened to you in 1983 when you were arrested?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: In 1983 I was working for Piet Retief Engineering Company and from there I got involved with woman I'm sitting with here.  I was from Jo'burg at that time and I visited Swaziland where I came across the ANC organisation and I felt I wanted to be a member of the ANC and I joined and became a card-carrying member.  Upon joining there is an oath that you happen to take that whoever asks you any questions or wants to know about the ANC, you have no right to impart that knowledge or that information to that person.  Our commander lost the papers and the police in Swaziland discovered the papers which secret documents they sent to the Republic of South Africa informing them that they have got a member of the ANC.  That's when they started looking for me and when they got me they went to the Piet Retief Engineering Firm when I wasn't there, but when I came back I was told that the police were looking for me.
 Quite some time elapsed when they came back looking for me and discovered that I was in Johannesburg. The third time they came back they got me.  One of the police was Mr Nsibi, the other one was Pretorious.  I've forgotten the other policeman's name but he's no longer in Piet Retief. They left me there, they didn't arrest me at the time but they came back at a later stage and I was in Johannesburg at that time. They came back for the umpteenth time and that's when they got me but they still didn't arrest me.
 Then at a later stage there was another policeman who  came back but I don't know what his name is, I was taken to the police station and when I got there I was questioned with regard to being a member of the ANC and I refused to impart any information about the ANC, and the police told me that they knew my father and they asked me about him. I denied knowing him and told them that my girl friend does not have a father and that I did not know him.  They thought I was joking and that's when they started assaulting me so that I could go and point out where my father was. I couldn't point him out because I knew that if I did so he was going to be killed.  
 I stayed at the police station until late that afternoon when they released me.  They fetched me once more and assaulted me even more, threatening me if I didn't want to speak the truth about my father-in-law and asked me why I didn't want to disclose his whereabouts.  I told them that it's because I knew that they were going to kill him and I was further assaulted until I temporarily lost my hearing.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay just relax.

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: Ultimately I realised that I had been so injured and needed medical attention.  They continued assaulting me, telling me that I was going to speak the truth and I flatly refused to do so because I realised that there were lives at stake and I couldn't tell them the truth about myself and my family, and when I was at the hospital in Piet Retief, early in the morning of the following day following my admission, I think it was at a quarter past six in the morning, when the nurses were changing the shift, I was put into a car and I was taken -- I remember the name of the other policeman, it was Nsivi Nxina Pina as well as Pretorious, they came in the morning to fetch me from the hospital and the nurses held me.  The nurses refused to allow the policemen to take me out of the hospital because I was sick and they took me back into the ward where I received further medical attention, and at the time I had temporarily lost my hearing.  I still have a problem with my hearing, especially in winter when it's cold.  I  remained at the hospital until I was discharged at a later stage and I went back home.
 When I was at home sleeping after I had been discharged, I was put under house arrest and whenever I wanted to go anywhere, especially Swaziland I had to go and report at the police station that I was leaving the police and the police would escort me to the border gate and they would count the days that I would be allowed to remain outside the borders. I continued feeling ill and told my wife that we should move from this place and we ran away and went to live in Johannesburg where I went to a certain doctor who gave me some medication as well as treatment.
 On one particular day in the morning when I had just woken up after sleeping on my right side, my right ear was bleeding. When I tried to sleep on the other side or the other ear, I bled profusely through the ears. ( I also bled at the police station where I was assaulted).   This doctor helped me for the two weeks that I stayed in Johannesburg receiving treatment and they...(intervention).. 
(part of the Mnisi case appears on the tape)
....attention or treatment with regard to the injuries that I sustained during the assaults because the police used to assault me, telling me that I should point out as to where the other ANC members were or where the ANC was operating.  I ultimately told them that they had better kill me because I wasn't prepared to tell them any information with regard to my organisation.
 Then I was under some surveillance and until today I still fell that I'm under surveillance, but I never pointed my father-in-law out until the time that he died.  I still feel very bad because I do not know why I was subjected to this.  That's why I've come before this Commission to tell my story.  It still feels very bad that I was assaulted and no reason was furnished as to why I was being assaulted.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Okay Mr  Mthethwa, we are going to ask you a few questions.  Where you are not clear don't worry yourself to answer those questions. First I would like to know, when you were made to take an oath being a member of ANC, were you told about the policies of ANC?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: Yes I was.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What were these policies regarding perhaps killing, destroying peoples' property within the country or particularly in Piet Retief where you were?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: What they told us was that during that time the ANC was fighting for the freedom of the people and they wanted there to be negotiations between the Black as well as the White people, but it seems the White people didn't want to understand the viewpoint of the Black people.  That is why I refused to point out the ANC headquarters or where the ANC was operating, because had I done that, I may probably have died or maybe a number of my brothers could probably have died. That's why I refused to give them this much information.

THOMAS MANTHATA: In short you say that the ANC policy was not to kill but rather to negotiate.

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: That is correct.

THOMAS MANTHATA: If I hear you well or if this house hears you well, you are saying that in order to know about your father and/or your father-in-law, were your father or your father-in-law members of the ANC at that time?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: Yes he was a member.

THOMAS MANTHATA: How did you know this?

NOTHI E MTHETHWA: It's because we used to stay at his place and we would discuss politics at times and we would discuss political matters with regard to the ANC.

THOMAS MANTHATA: And you went to Swaziland as an employee of the engineering company or you had gone to Swaziland expressly to meet the ANC and affiliate to it?