Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Ma'am to which clan do you belong?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: I belong to the Chawe clan.

REV XUNDU: You came here today to tell us the story that is well-known to the South Africans, that the Boers of this country went to Maseru and they killed people there and amongst those people, your son was there.
 In short, can you please tell us about your son, Bantwini?  Where was he at the time, what was he doing when he was killed?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: We knew that Bantwini was going to East London.  It was during December.  We were surprised when we were told that he was shot in Maseru.
 He was shot on a Wednesday and we were told on Saturday.

REV XUNDU: Where did he stay?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He was staying in Pietermaritzburg.

REV XUNDU: What was he doing there?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He was a  Doctor.

REV XUNDU: And you heard that he went to Maseru.  Did he know anybody in Maseru?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: I don't know about that.
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REV XUNDU: Did you have any relatives in Maseru?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: No.

REV XUNDU: You heard that he was one of the people who were killed there?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: You said there is a witness in this matter Baba?  Can you please tell us about Baba, where is he from?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Can you please repeat that question?

REV XUNDU: Can you please tell us about Baba Ngenzi?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Baba is a girl who was present, who was with him.

REV XUNDU: Was this girl his friend?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes, it was his friend.

REV XUNDU: Was she his sweetheart?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: She came to tell you what happened?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: No, we did not hear from her, but we heard this news from his friend, Mzwakindla.

REV XUNDU: Were they buried there in Maseru?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes, and we couldn't go there because we didn't have passports.  When we tried to apply for passports ...

REV XUNDU: Can you please continue now?  You did not manage to get passports?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: No, we tried to apply for passports, but we couldn't get passports, but we were almost arrested by the Detectives in King William's Town.  It was myself and my brothers and my sister.
 And we decided to come back home.  We were harassed all the way from King William's Town until we arrived home.

REV XUNDU: Let me assure you the funeral of these people
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were so dignified, they were not buried like dogs by the people who buried them.  Even Tambo and Chris Hani were there so I want to assure you that it was a dignified funeral.
 And as heroes they were buried in a respectful manner.  In other words, I want to say your hearts must not feel pain because Oliver Tambo was there, he came from Mozambique to go to that funeral although he was threatened by the South African Government, so I want to assure you that the people who were with your son, respected him.
 They buried him in a dignified manner.  I know that you might have requests that you want to make to the Commission and I know that the incident of Maseru is one of the incidents that made people to look forward, not to look back and other countries saw that this country is strong and the people of South African was strong.
 In other words I am trying to comfort you Ma'am.  You have requests here for this Commission, can you please tell us what are these requests?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: I want to know the perpetrators and I would like his remains so that they can be buried here.

REV XUNDU: Do you want to know the Commanding Officer?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: And you want his remains to be reburied here?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: There is one thing I want to clarify in that matter because in Lesotho they gave that land respect.  Maybe if we can negotiate, this can come through.  The Commission will try to help you out.
 Secondly you talked about a library, can you explain on that?  There is a library named after him in Somerset East,
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in other words his dignity in Somerset is kept.

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Is there any other thing you want to say Ma'am?  It seems as if you are finished Ma'am.
 Mr Chairperson, I would like to say the Dilima family was one of the families which was strong in this country.  His blood was shed for the struggle.
 He contributed a lot to the liberation of this country.  It goes back three generations in the family.  I just wanted to contribute this much about this lady's family, thank you sir.

BONGANI FINCA: Mr Sandi?

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mrs Ngciphe, how old was your son at the time of this incident?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He was 27 years old.

MR SANDI: He was 27 years old?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes, he was 27 years old.

MR SANDI: When did he leave to Maseru?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He left in December 1982.

MR SANDI: I can see that he was educated, can you please tell us about that?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He was a Doctor in Adendale Hospital.

MR SANDI: That means that if he was not killed by the SADF in Maseru that day, you would be living a better life today?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: Yes.

MR SANDI: At the time he was living here, was there any conflict between himself and the police?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: No, he went here to look for his cousin and he was supposed to come back that same week.

MR SANDI: Did he have any children?

THEMBISA CYNTHIA NGCIPHE: He has got one child and his girlfriend.
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MR SANDI: Thank you.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Ma'am, I am not going to disrupt what Reverend Xundu have already said.  I think he was there, he was at the funeral himself.
 He has tried to comfort you that you cannot cry for such heroes.  He told us about the history of your family and we could see that your boy was from the hero's family.
 He gave up his life, because if he didn't do that, today he would have been a rich man.  He was fighting for this country.  We salute you today for that although other people wouldn't like us to do that.
 I want to assure you that the perpetrators are coming forward, every day we find revelations and they are telling the people what they have done.  One of the things that the Commission is busy investigating is what was involved in the SADF.
 Your first request was that you wanted to know who were the perpetrators, who gave command.  Maybe some day we will be able to answer that question even without investigating because today they are coming forward and they are telling us what happened.
 Reverend Xundu has already said that as you have requested that his remains should be brought back to this country, we are dealing with that as a Commission but we hope that such people who were buried in countries like Lesotho, their families will come together and decide what they want to do.
 Maybe some people will say that they want their people back, but they have to come together.  Today we would like to say we thank you for coming forward.  We thank you.