Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2011-01-21

WHITE MOHAPE: No, no, I think I could not, more especially, when people have put on balaclavas, you know.  Maybe it will have been more clearer when they did not put their balaclavas, when they are busy beating me I would then maybe recognise one or two, but because they have all, at that time already balaclava are on, you could never make in a sense out of a person and identify this person who is, you know, who is beating you.

MR STANDER: Where were you beaten on the body by these objects, the hammers, etcetera?

WHITE MOHAPE: You see, at time I had to protect my face and when I was protecting my face, yes, everybody was beating me all over and, you know, when I am talking all over I am saying the whole body.

MR STANDER: Were you in any condition to be able to say how many people were involved in these attacks after the vehicle stopped?

WHITE MOHAPE: You see, that is why I am saying I am able to say, you see, after those two people who were busy beating me, they were joined by another two, you know, and they were four of them who were beating me there.  You see, what is important is you are able to see these are four people around you, you know, and when they do that, they do what ever they like with you.

MR STANDER: What happened after this?

WHITE MOHAPE: And then I think after some few minutes one of them told me to jump a fence, because you must be aware that at that time I was naked, I was only left with my pants, like underwear, you know.  One, he started me to jump with that fence.  Now, what is happening in that, it is a fence and just, you know, after that fence is a row of trees and they told me to run in those trees and I had to do that.  I ran into those trees and somebody shot at me.  Now, lucky enough, for I do not know, that person missed me and then I just heard cars, you know, moving away.

MR STANDER: Do you know if any of the people of one of the two applicants were amongst those that assaulted you there?

WHITE MOHAPE: In that situation or at that time, I will not exactly, as I explained, that the two applicants right now I can honestly point them, you know, to say it is you, but there were people who beat me up, but they have been involved in other activities where I have been, you know, beaten or jumped at the security branch offices.

MR STANDER: Good.  While, after you were shot or they shot at you what happened after that?

WHITE MOHAPE: I had to walk back, you know, to the township and when I went there I got into a nearby house, you know, of a classmate of mine.  It is a woman and at that time, I think, the time was perhaps half past 11 or I cannot remember what time it was, but it was very late or to 12 and then I knocked at her door and when she opened she was damn surprised to see me in the condition I was and then she woke up everybody in the house and then they took care of me, organised transport to take me home, and when I arrived at home, yes, at home they were surprised to see me in that situation I was in and when I, you know, when I was getting out of the car that brought me at home, one car of the security branch, driven by a White guy, passed the house.
	My brother even remarked and to say, it means they are coming to check if they are finished, you know, or they have completed what they intended to do, because even, he even mentioned that person's name but, unfortunately, I cannot recall.  He might be in a position, perhaps, to recall that person who was passing at the house at that time alone, a White man.

MR STANDER: Very well.  Were you detained after this at all?

WHITE MOHAPE: You know, that is why I am saying yes.  There are sequences, but I will try to be as brief as I can and be specific to certain events.  I was, after that I was arrested, detained and when I was detained I was picked up by Motsamai and when I was detained I was made frog-jumps there at security branch Offices and ... (intervention).

MR STANDER: Was Motsamai the person who gave the orders?  Who was the person that told you to do the frog jumps?

WHITE MOHAPE: When I arrived there I was, for instance, with, I was taken with a group of students, but they were taken to other rooms and then I was taken to the kitchen and when I was taken to that kitchen, it was Mamome and Motsamai who were there and Mamome, you know, forced me to make frog- jumps and of which, you know, I had to comply with that, because they were, you know, they were big, like, somebody, it was Mamome himself, in actual fact, he was kicking me at the back and then from there I was taken to another room.
	When I was in that room, I stayed for a while in the room and Lieutenant Horn came in, Prinsloo came in, Erasmus came in, Shaw came in and Motsamai, Mamome and, you know, they were coming in and out, in and out, but there was one second that something happened to me.  That second is when Erasmus was saying I must look out of the window.  When I turned to look out of the window, looking outside, somebody within seconds put a black bag over my head and I was pulled down forcefully and within those seconds a whole lot of kicks and broom sticks around me was all over my body and, fortunately enough, I do not know, I grabbed one, you know, broom stick and when I grabbed it people just ran out. 
	I took out that black bag and I sat there being angry and then later on, you know, Erasmus came to me and said to me, White, what happened?  You know, it was damn frustrating and damn hurting, people knowing that what they have just done to you now and, of course, you know somebody comes, you know, ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Before you go on, now you were speaking very quickly.  Could you tell me again who came into this room? You gave a whole list of people?

WHITE MOHAPE: All right.  I am saying, you know, at that time a whole shoot of them came in, like they were coming in and out.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, well who were they.

WHITE MOHAPE: But then at that time, with the four seconds I was, you know, held down, before those seconds happened it was Erasmus, it was Prinsloo, because this Prinsloo is a (...indistinct), I just forgot their first names, it was Shaw, you know, ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: Shaw.

WHITE MOHAPE: ... it was Mamome, you know, and it was, you know, others who were there, because that thing happened within seconds when Erasmus said I must look through the window.

MR STANDER: Ja, you say ... (intervention).

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, while there is an interruption in your concentration or in the line of evidence, I find myself compelled again to mention what I did mention this morning, Mr Chairman.  How is this related to any particular incident which is serving before you for an application for amnesty by any person?  We cannot go on like this, Mr Chairman.  I find the evidence of the witness fascinating, but we cannot just go on with matters hanging in the air.

CHAIRPERSON: He can go on telling us that he is from time to time.  The other bit that do not merely, are fill-ins, as to what Ngo and Motsamai did, how they treated him, if they have not disclosed that, that is effect, may well affect their applications.  As you know they are under an obligation to make a full disclosure.  If this witness gives evidence of incidents that have not been disclosed and we accept the liabilities it effects their applications.

MR VISSER: I do appreciate that aspect, Mr Chairman.  The matter which concerns me more than anything else, is the question as to whether I am going to be expected to cross- examine this witness on all the new evidence which is not coming to light, whereas it is quite clear that ... (intervention).

CHAIRPERSON: This happens frequently at trials, Mr Visser, that evidence is led which you have to cross-examine on.

MR VISSER: All Right, Mr Chairman, as long as you understand my predicament.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.