Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

UNKNOWN: I'd like you welcome you. You've had a longmorning, and I understand that Mrs Thapedi is a little tired and would liketo go home as soon as possible, so we have brought you forward. Mr Thapedi,I understand that you are going to tell the story about your son, and that ifthere's anything else that needs to be said then Mrs Thapedi will confirmthat or add her own views and understanding of that. Is that right?

UNKNOWN: That's fine.

UNKNOWN: Fine, thank you. You're very, very welcome,and you have a very difficult story to tell, and we feel for you very much asyou start to tell that. Would you please stand for the taking of the oath, andyou can both stand together.

UNKNOWN: (Sworn, State)

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much. Please be seated. Mycolleague, Mr Lyster, is going to take over from me, and he will guide you asyou tell your story. Thank you very much.

MR LYSTER: I also welcome you, Mrs Thapedi and Mr Thapedi,and you, like many other people who have given evidence today, and who willbe giving evidence over the next two days, are telling about the loss of a familymember, a grandson and a son, and we know this is a very difficult burden tocarry and we express our sympathy to you. Mr Thapedi, I think you, as the Deputy-Chairmanhas said, are going to start and tell us about your son and his death. So ifyou are able to give a little background as to where you live, how many childrenyou have, that sort of thing, what motivated your son to go into exile, and then the story, as far as you know it, of his death, youare now welcome to start.

WITNESS: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I thankyou for giving me a chance to give evidence, because I am the one who knowsabout my son. I have three children. Two of them have passed away. One of themwas schooling at Larago. I was working outside, outside the country. When Icame back I got Mary, who told me what is happening at home. My son was bornin 1962. It happened because of some of the conditions that my child can goaway, go to Lesotho. When I tried to follow him I was longing to see him. WhenI was in Lesotho I got his file. They told me that he is in Tanzania. Even themessage that I got in that office of the Interior I was told not to follow him.I was told not to follow him always. I was told that we will see when he comesback. Now I have a request. I am here to request the Commission to help me.I am not even sure - because I have been told that he died I am not sure whetheris he the right person who had been buried. I heard from people who were talking.It was on the 18th in Paper Street in Haydida(?). An ANC spokesperson said thata person had been shot, and I didn't know that it was my son and I couldn'teven think whether was it my son. After quite some time - I think it was a year- I heard this from people when they were talking. I was told that the personwho had been shot was my son. You know it's difficult to believe in rumours.I am now appealing to the Commission to help me so that I can be satisfied.My heart is not at ease, because when he left he was still alive. I won't besatisfied for seeing the bones only. Now I didn't want to say too much, I wantto be very short. I am going to briefly give you some of the few things as well. The firstthing that I want the Commission to do for me, I want to know how was my sonburied, because the family was not even informed. The ANC, together with theprevious regime, they should compensate me. I don't know what are they goingto do, but they have to compensate me because I am deeply hurt. I want themto come closer to me and investigate this matter, because I was only given thebones, and it's hard for me to believe that it was my son. The family was notinformed, as I have already mentioned. The previous regime only buried my sonwithout my consent. I am not totally satisfied. They should try, both the ANCand the previous Government, they should come up with something so that I canbe satisfied. I am not satisfied as you see me now. The rest you will hear frommy mother, because she has got something to tell you. And I also want to passmy condolences to all the people who suffered the same thing. I am referringto the people who lost their loved ones. It's not only me who came across sucha thing. I sympathise with everybody who suffered. I want to thank you, andI will expect anything from the Commission. I want his belongings, because Ialso heard that he had a few belongings. It's impossible - if you die as a personyou die and you leave the loved ones behind. I want to put matters clear. Iheard again that he had a car. I want the investigations to be done thoroughly,and if there is a car it has to come back home. I don't want to say anything.There are so many of us who have to give their evidence. May God please addto what I didn't say to you today. I think I will end up there. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Thapedi. We will certainly try and investigatewhat happened to your son, but I want to ask you one or two questions. You saidthat he was buried by the State. Where was he buried? --- The ANC did some investigationsand they managed to get his bones. I didn't even know when they were busy doingthose preparations. I only knew later that it was my son. They brought me hisremains and we buried those remains, and I don't want to go further by exhumingthe body. That I don't want. I think our enemies should tell us exactly whathappened because I don't know, I am in the dark.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... body was exhumed and reburied. From where wasit exhumed, or don't you know that? If you don't know that just say you don'tknow that.

WITNESS: They exhumed the body in Pahameng Cemetery.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... Pahameng?

WITNESS: Pahameng, it's one of the townshipsin Bloemfontein. You go straight - you go past Rockland and then on the left-handside that is Pahameng location.

MR LYSTER: And who was it from the ANC that assisted you to - with thatprocess? Do you remember the person who assisted the family to exhume the body,and for the body to be reburied?

WITNESS: I still remember him. His name is YT Mohapi.

MR LYSTER: And you mentioned in your statement that someone from Bloemfontein,a Mr Mdewe, Oupa Mdewe, had notified you of your son's death and your son'sburial, is that correct? Mr Mdewe works at a pharmacy, he's a pharmacist, isthat right?

WITNESS: Yes, he was also involved, but the person who gave us a clearindication was YT Mohapi.

MR LYSTER: After you son went into exile, after he went to Lesotho and to Tanzania, did you hear from him after he hadgone there in 1982? Did he make contact with you?

WITNESS: I personally went to Interiorand I found his file there, and I was told that I am late. They didn't tellme how late I was, but they told me that he was now in Tanzania. I personallywent to the Interior.

MR LYSTER: (Inaudible) ... formal death certificate indicating that theperson who was buried was in fact you son? Do you have a death certificate likethat?

WITNESS: I tried to find a death certificate, but the previous Government didn'ttake me into consideration. But the evidence that my son died is there, becausethere was a funeral service.

MR LYSTER: As far as you know there was never any inquest or any sortof court case about the death of your son. Is that right?

WITNESS: There was no courtcase. We were never called.

MR LYSTER: Thank you, Mr Thapedi. I am going to ask any - hand over tothe Deputy-Chairman to see whether there are any other people who want to askquestions, and then we will go to your mother and ask whether she will confirmwhat you have said.

UNKNOWN: I wonder if I could suggest that we ask themother to speak first, because she may be able to give the ... (inaudible -end of Side B, Tape 3)