Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, the reasons of the commanding officers at that stage was about the freedom struggle, the war that is now raging and my instruction was to take a bomb and to stop the elections which is only a few days away.  We had to sow panic and we had to withhold the people from taking part in the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: At the taxi rank were there mostly black people or what was the situation?

UNKNOWN: I think the person who gave the instruction had his purpose because it was definitely a black taxi rank.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know Mr Venter anything about the planning of the Germiston bomb, do you know anything about that?

UNKNOWN: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you contribute to the explosion of the Germiston bomb?

UNKNOWN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you know it was going to go off?

UNKNOWN: No I did not know at all about the proceedings or the things which were happening at Koesterfontein, I did not know anything about that.

CHAIRPERSON: And you were found guilty of that?

UNKNOWN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: And Bree Street?

UNKNOWN: No.

CHAIRPERSON: You were not found guilty?

UNKNOWN: Bree Street, Jan Smuts, Koesterfontein I wasn't found guilty of any of those things.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter, do you confirm the statements as they are contained in Annexure A and B?

UNKNOWN: Yes I confirm them.

MR PRINSLOO: Now since these explosions have happened ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Before you continue Mr Prinsloo. Mr Venter when you started testifying you said you are applying for amnesty for all the charges?

UNKNOWN: Yes, all the charges I was found guilty of.

CHAIRPERSON: Of which you were found guilty?

UNKNOWN: Yes. I was found guilty of the incident in Pretoria.

CHAIRPERSON: Please go a bit slower, I want to write it down.  For which cases did you apply for amnesty?

UNKNOWN: I apply for Randfontein where I was personally involved and then in court because of conspiracy I was found guilty of Pretoria, Western area and I am not sure about the others, attempt to murder, possession of explosives.

CHAIRPERSON: This attempt for murder where did this take place?

UNKNOWN: Pretoria and I think Western area and Randfontein.

CHAIRPERSON: Western area, Pretoria and Randfontein is it those three incidents?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: So everything that you have been found guilty of happened at one of these incidents?

UNKNOWN: Yes, at these pipe bomb expeditions.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter, how do you feel about these specific deeds that you were found guilty of and the specific application and with regards to the people who were involved?

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, the people who were involved and the people who lost people because of the bombs, my sympathy, my condolences for the family.  It was a freedom struggle that we had to fight, it was war.  After all these things happened, the bombs and also the criminal case, I came to the conclusion that it was not really our goal, it was the leaders and the people behind us who motivated us to do these things but they did not even assist us in what we were doing.   I am sorry that we fought a senseless battle and that people died from that and they had to experience senseless suffering.   Once again I can only emphasise that I am really sympathetic towards all the people who suffered because of what we did and because of us who did not really have a goal, did not really have a purpose after these things were indoctrinated into us.

CHAIRPERSON: A question was asked yesterday with regards to a message which was sent to a specific family after the case. Do you know about that?

UNKNOWN: I do not know about it.  I was in prison for three years and (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, this is in the court.

UNKNOWN: No, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: You do not know?

UNKNOWN: No.  I learned it yesterday here but otherwise I do not know anything about it.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] yesterday asked that after the case was concluded or finished or during the court case a message was sent to one of the victim's family members to say that they are really sorry that a white child died or something to that effect and this was not accepted on the condition that a message must go to all the victims' families and afterwards there weren't any other messages sent.  This witness says he doesn't know anything about the message.

MS CAMBANIS: Mr Chair, the message was not from the applicant but from a wife of one of the applicants.

CHAIRPERSON: I misunderstood it.

MS CAMBANIS: Sorry, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: But you do not carry any knowledge with regards to any message being sent?

UNKNOWN: No, not at all.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter, are you still a member of the AWB?

UNKNOWN: No, Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: No further questions Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you Mr Chair. So you are not applying for the Bree Street, you are not applying for amnesty for Bree Street, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: That is correct yes.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you.  You said that you realised in paragraph 21 page 150 that the AWB was responsible?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MS CAMBANIS: But you also say that, that is only an assumption that you made (...indistinct)

UNKNOWN: Okay I made that assumption afterwards. While I was there busy with the war as they called it, I knew that with all the meetings and all the leader figures that was involved with this, that it had to come out of the AWB.  I also know that all these bombs and all these things wouldn't have been prepared if it was not for the leaders in this that had actually gave the order for this to happen.

MS CAMBANIS: But you were never told that the AWB were responsible for the Bree Street bomb?

UNKNOWN: I knew they were responsible.

MS CAMBANIS: But you were never told that by anyone in the AWB?

UNKNOWN: The people that were involved are direct from head office, direct people in the leader network there and it had to come from the head office itself.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Venter, you say the first time that you heard about this was on the television that evening.

UNKNOWN: That it was these specific people who were involved in?

CHAIRPERSON: No, that the bomb exploded there.

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: I assume it was approximately 8 'o clock that evening when this news report was on television?

UNKNOWN: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there no suggestion in that report that the SACP were involved, or can you not remember or did you not hear that?

UNKNOWN: At that stage what I saw and observed what I did the day before in transporting the bombs and when I saw the vehicle on the television I immediately asked Koper Myburgh and I said to him: "It is your vehicle".  I do not know what was said on the television and what the people or who the people thought planted the bomb but my conclusion was that I immediately went back to Koper Myburgh and said to him: "It is your vehicle".

CHAIRPERSON: Where did you see Koper Myburgh's vehicle?

UNKNOWN: On the television, and the car was in pieces and it was lying almost in a radius of two blocks.

CHAIRPERSON: And you just saw it on the television, the Bree Street bomb was that evening on the television?

UNKNOWN: Yes, and when they showed it I saw that it was that Audi with which Koper Myburgh and Cliff Barnard drove and directly after that I took it up with him.

CHAIRPERSON: This Audi was that close to the explosion where it occurred?

UNKNOWN: It was the car bomb.

CHAIRPERSON: I see, I see it was the car bomb.

UNKNOWN: And then I knew it was them.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairperson, can I just say that the video material is now available if the Committee would like to see it.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you still like to show it Mr Prinsloo?