Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-28

MR KINCAID: From what you say, it appears as though the youth of the day were very susceptible to influence from the leadership in the Stutterheim area, what was said by the leaders, what was ordered was generally carried out, would you agree with that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: You speak of the leadership, now the leadership of what organisation are you referring to, Jimmy, who were the leaders?  Were they politically aligned or were they just community leaders?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Those were political leaders, because we were under ANC at the time and even today we are still under the ANC.  Mr Malgas was one of them, Mr Rhandile Manele and Mr Mambuku, Michael Mambuku.

MR KINCAID: Were these ANC Youth League leaders?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Were you a member of the ANC Youth League, Jimmy, or were you a supporter?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I was a supporter.

MR KINCAID: Did you know what the official stance of the ANC Youth League was, what its political objectives were?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: I did not know the objectives completely, I was not that much in this organisation, but because of the problems that were taking place in our residential area, I had to come closer to the organisation.

MR KINCAID: Jimmy, you've deposed to an affidavit in which you make mention of an alliance between the ANC Youth League and the United Democratic Front, are you, were you also a supporter of the United Democratic Front?  Do you know that such an alliance existed?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I have some knowledge concerning the two.

MR KINCAID: I'm just listening to you speak, Jimmy.  It would appear you weren't completely au fait with what the objectives of the ANC or the UDF were at that time, and it's probably true to state that at that time both these parties weren't able to publicly espouse what their objectives were, they were still banned organisations.  Can you just confirm that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: What you tell the Committee is that you were a young man living in Kabusi township and that this community of yours was often attacked and raided by the Security Forces in Stutterheim at the time.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: You spoke of teargassing, what happened there, what kind of conflict was there, what form did the violence take in the Kabusi township?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: What was happening there, as I've already said there was a meeting between the Mayor of Tsumagala and the community.  There was a misunderstanding because the people had their own grievances or demands.  Due to the failure of those negotiations they announced a boycott.  We had to embark on a boycott and we were forced to hold roadblocks to check on people who would go and buy privately.  The others would wake up very early in the morning and go and buy some things.  As the youth we had to go up there to the bridges and hold the roadblocks.
	During those roadblocks the police realised that there was a roadblock and even the people were against these roadblocks told the police that they cannot buy anything because the youth is taking everything and destroying it.  The police tried to disrupt our roadblocks on those bridges.  That is when we realised that we were not safe, even on those bridges because it was easy for the police to come into our township and even arrest us.

MR KINCAID: I asked you what form did the violence take and you've mentioned specifically that there was teargassing, but were there other instances, other examples of violent intrusion in your life, other than teargassing and dispersing, breaking up roadblocks? - that you personally experienced.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: They were shooting at us, they were also using firearms, except the teargas.

MR KINCAID: Okay.  Jimmy, you've, in your application deposed to an affidavit in which you set out the background to the situation in Stutterheim at the time in which the offences were committed.  Your affidavit contextualises your actions and you mention that in 1985 there was a call for a national consumer boycott and that in Stutterheim this call was enforced.  Do you confirm that?

INTERPRETER: Excuse me, would the speaker please repeat the question.

MR KINCAID: I've asked Jimmy to confirm that the trouble in Stutterheim started as early as 1985, with a calling of a national consumer boycott.

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is true.

MR KINCAID: And you have mentioned in your testimony thus far, that the national consumer boycott resulted in people breaking the conditions of that boycott and purchasing from the businesses in Stutterheim and that necessitated the youth to set up what you called, roadblocks.  Do you confirm that?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, I do confirm that.

MR KINCAID: 1985, Jimmy, from 1985 through to 1990, was there a Security Force presence maintained throughout?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, that was not maintained throughout.

MR KINCAID: Why was it not necessary to maintain such a force in Stutterheim?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: As from 1985, most people were arrested. People like Mr Mambuku and Mr Malgas were arrested and even though, the majority of the youth.  People would just come in and make rounds and check the people who were inside and we had to leave the place, we had to run away and it became quiet thereafter.  It resurfaced again in 1989.

MR KINCAID: And 1989, you mentioned a decision was taken to approach the town clerk of Stutterheim, Mr Ferreira, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: What was the purpose of going to see Mr Ferreira?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The aim was to try and develop the living conditions because our residential area was more like a remote or rural area and the people who were owning their sites or properties, and most people were squatters in the other people's areas.  The aim was to try and make the point that even the other people who did not have their own houses should get houses or get land.

MR KINCAID: Were you personally involved in the delegation which went to see Mr Ferreira?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: No, I was not in the delegation.

MR KINCAID: What was the outcome of the meeting with Mr Ferreira, do you know?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, as I heard, it was announced that we should embark on the consumer boycott.

MR KINCAID: So Mr Ferreira was unwilling to accede to your requests and to provide you with more land and to improve your living conditions, is that correct?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: So once again the call was made to impose another consumer boycott in Stutterheim.  Who made these decisions, Jimmy, who decided to impose the consumer boycotts?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: That was the decision that was taken by the community or the residents.

MR KINCAID: And was this consumer boycott enforced?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes.

MR KINCAID: How did you enforce it?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: The shops belonging to the whites who were in our town were boycotted, like the people were not to buy in their shops.

MR KINCAID: And did the people of the township go and purchase in the town of Stutterheim, or was it necessary for you once again to establish roadblocks?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, we had to establish the roadblocks because the people would go there secretly and do some shopping.

MR KINCAID: Did the establishment of the roadblocks create tension between the youth and the police at the time?

NZUNZIMA JIMMY NOKAWUSANA: Yes, that is correct.

MR KINCAID: Now we're talking about 1989, Jimmy.  You said that there was no longer a strong Security Force presence in Stutterheim, but where there members of the Commando and the Army in Stutterheim at the time?