Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-26

REV XUNDU: Who burnt down your houses?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: I don't know who burnt our houses.

REV XUNDU: Did you lay a charge?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: No.

REV XUNDU: But according to your view, who do you think was the leader of these people?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: I think it was the people who were against the ANC.

REV XUNDU: The houses which were burnt down that day, the houses which burnt down, were those houses belonging to members of the ANC?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: No, because our Chief's house also burnt down.  I don't know who burnt down these houses because I was in the
forrest.

REV XUNDU: You were in the forrest and you don't know what happened?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: No.

REV XUNDU: You just heard a trumpet?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: Yes, I just heard a trumpet and I went to the forrest, I also heard gunshots.

REV XUNDU: What would you like us to do for you sir?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: I would like the Commission to help me because I have six children, one of them is doing standard 10, the other one standard nine, the other one standard eight and I am trying to build my house.
 I will have a request that the Commission help me with my four-roomed house, the Commission will see what to do.

REV XUNDU: What can be done so that there can be peace in your area?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: If Chief Mdutshane can leave the place, there won't be conflict.

REV XUNDU: if (indistinct) can be a Chief.  Is he the one who is killing you?

WELCOME MTUTUZELI JARA: He is the one who was arrested because he was leading the toyi-toyi.  We want him to come back to rule our village.

REV XUNDU: All you have said, have been recorded sir, thank you.  We will now call Mandlakayise Singleton Lumbo.  We want to know your clan name sir, what is your clan name?

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: My surname is Lumbo, I am from the Mpote, my clan name is Mkonde.

REV XUNDU: Do you have anything to add or what can you add in what have already been said, because we have already heard the story?

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: Yes, I want to add something because my house was burnt down that day.  As Mr Mdutshane has already said, our Chief is against us.  There is no peace, we want the Commission to call him here so that we can say our grievances so that he can ask for forgiveness, because he was the one who was beating people.

REV XUNDU: In your statement I can see that you want to be helped to build, to rebuild your house?

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: Yes.

REV XUNDU: You also mentioned your children?

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: Yes, I am - I don't have money to support and educate my children.

REV XUNDU: What can you advise the Commission to do in order to help you to have peace in your village?

MANDLAKAYISE SINGLETON LUMBO: We want Mdutshane to come forward to the Commission to apologise to the people.

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir.  Thandeka Mbaligontsi?  Let me lead you with questions, Thandeka.  I will go back to Tonga.   The story we have already heard concerning the Qobozo, the man who testified here, they explained what happened, but as a woman, maybe you have something different to say?  Can you please tell us briefly what is the reason for the conflict in your village?  If you have something to add, you can do so.

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: There is nothing more sir, because our Chief is against the ANC, he is against the members of the ANC, because he doesn't like this organisation.

REV XUNDU: Were you injured, or was there a member of your family who was injured?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: Yes, my husband died.

REV XUNDU: Was there a court case?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: Yes, there was a court case.

REV XUNDU: Is it still continuing?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: This the case is continuing, even now.

REV XUNDU: What would you like the Commission to do, or what would you advise the Commission to do so that there can be peace?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: I want peace in our village and I would like the Commission to help me with my children because they are very young.

REV XUNDU: ; How many children do you have?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: I have three children.

REV XUNDU: And your husband died?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: Yes, he died.

REV XUNDU: You also mentioned a tombstone?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: Yes, I would like a tombstone for my husband.  I am no longer staying in my home because there is conflict in the village, I am staying with my parents.  My parents are supporting me and my children.

REV XUNDU: Are you scared that because you came to the Commission, that you - do you feel threatened?

MANTWANTLE THANDEKA MBALIGONTSI: Yes,  because we are still members of the ANC and we will remain members of the ANC.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Let me go back to Mabutha Tonga.  Mabutha Magebethu Tonga.  Mr Mabutha Magebethu, is that you Ma'am?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: You have heard the evidence given here today.  Why did you come here, who was injured during this period?  What is the connection between yourself and Dlayiseka Tonga?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: He was my husband.

REV XUNDU: He was injured in this conflict between the
toyi-toyi and those who are in authority?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Did you open a court case concerning this matter?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Is it still continuing?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes, it is.

REV XUNDU: I am sure that the Chairperson will sympathise with you concerning this case of your husband.  What would you like the Commission to do, what is your request to the Commission?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: I would like the Commission to help me with my children.

REV XUNDU: How many children do you have?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: I have four children and they are still at school, they are very young.  I would like to be helped because my children are suffering.

REV XUNDU: You also mentioned that you want peace in your village?  You mentioned that you want peace in your village?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes, I want peace in our village because I don't know what is happening there.

REV XUNDU: Is that all Ma'am?

MABUTHA MAGEBETHU TONGA: Yes, that is all.

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  And we will now call Kango.  Mr Kango, please tell us in your own words if you have something to add to what has already been said?

AMOS MAZIZI KANGO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  The problem in our village arose when the political organisations were unbanned.  I am not going to explain as people have already explained.
 As I was an organiser organising ANC in our area, Chief Mdutshane ... (tape ends) ... he was together with other Chiefs, but at that time there was no ANC in our village.  There were seven tribal authority Chiefs.  The Chairperson of the Transkei ANC region, David Ndahonje, came to us and they laid a charge against ANC, they said that they do not want ANC in Flagstaff.
 And this case was defended by Nxinilifo who was representing the Chiefs and General Holomisa's Government, the Chiefs were told that the ANC was unbanned.
 They have to tolerate that.  That was from the Chairperson of the region.  Chief Mdutshane called a meeting after that and he said they won that court case, he was laying to the people who were not there.  We tried to tell the people that he was laying, he lied to the people saying that he won the case.

REV XUNDU: In your statement, you mentioned that there were police who helped the Chiefs?