Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-16

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Sir, from Polla Park the mission was to go and defend people in Natal.  There was an outstanding order that at any stage, at no stage must anyone, the Security Forces or whoever, must take weapons from us.  For the reason of common purpose I knew that those weapons were going to be involved in war.
	Secondly, ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry to interrupt, Mr Makhura, but before it slips my mind, you say the standing order was that you mustn't be dispossessed of weapons, whose standing order, the SDUs?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Yes, that's SDU standing order, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue.

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Now a political mission was put on our shoulder.  I am aware that I did not participate in actually pulling the trigger when the police died but since I loaded those arms, since I loaded the magazines, since I was with my comrades, all of them and since I knew where we were going and I was lastly charged with the very same murder, because of common purpose I'm applying amnesty even for those murders, Sir, for that murder I mean.

MR MAPOMA: For whose murder?  For whose murder, Sir?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: I'm referring to the murder of a policeman, Sir.

MR MAPOMA: Do I understand you to mean the murder of Cornelius Oosthuizen who died at the shootout?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: I beg your pardon, Sir?

MR MAPOMA: Do I understand you to mean the murder of Cornelius Oosthuizen?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Yes, Sir.

MR MAPOMA: Is that the murder for which you ask for amnesty?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Yes, in my case there is only one murder, Sir, from the other side of the police, then two murders from our side.

MR MAPOMA: So do I understand you to mean that you associate yourself with the act of killing of Mr Oosthuizen?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Yes, Sir.

MR MAPOMA: Now in Court it was pointed out that at the place you were caught you were intending to commit robbery in a farm belonging to Mr Osmond, what do you say to that?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Well Sir, I believe I'm going to be long there.  Highly trained members of ANC like us on that day couldn't have just gone to one man to go and rob him even, because it later emerged in the Court that we were intending to rob a certain house.  We cannot carry five AK47s plus 10 magazines to go and rob one man, Sir.  And even the very same victim, not victim but the man whom it is alleged that we were intending to rob did not know anything about this.   It is not correct, Sir, that we were intending to rob anyone.

MR MAPOMA: Where exactly was this vehicle which stopped and which you left, where exactly was it, was it on the public road?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Where I left the van, Sir?

MR MAPOMA: Yes.

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Are you referring to the van I travelled by from Polla Park?

MR MAPOMA: Yes.

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: I left it at the side of the road.  I don't know whether it's a freeway or, but it's a national road to Harrismith, that's where we left that van saying that we are coming.  We want - its was Wellington Fokazi who said we will be coming back again.  Then from my knowledge they seemed to have waited for us at the spot but after realising that we were not coming in time, the van seemed to have made a u-turn to go and look for us.  That is where the shooting took place, Sir.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Doctor Tsotsi, do you have any questions - sorry, sorry, before I do that, Mr Mhlaba, do you have any re-examination?

MR MHLABA: Just one aspect.
	You have told the Committee of having heard a sound of AK47s thundering, are you able to give us an indication where that sound was coming from, was it from the position where you have left the van or can you not tell?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Since we were facing north, the sound of that rifle was coming at our back, from the south.

CHAIRPERSON: I know it's difficult but through your training and your experience, could you determine more or less how far away the shooting was from you?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Well I will say probably less than two kilometres, Sir.

MR MHLABA: Thank you, Chair, I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MHLABA

CHAIRPERSON: Doctor Tsotsi, do you have any questions which you'd like to put to the witness?

DR TSOTSI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions you'd like to put to the witness?

MR SIBANYONI: Just the same question, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Makhura, there was a person in Court, Thabo Motaung who apparently told the Court that he's aware of the plan, of the conspiracy to go and rob this Osmond family, do you know the reason why he told the Court all those things?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Sir, I'm going to mention something pertaining to what you are asking me, Sir.  This very same man you are talking about was even younger than my younger brother in age.  Now this man came to Kroonstad when I was on trial.  He came to the identification parade to come and identify some of the people I was with.
	Now he said when he came to the identification parade, that he knew nothing about the case but when I appeared in Court there was the man, a witness against me.  I do not know that man.  It later emerged that the man has since passed away, even though his death is still a question mark.
	To further answer you, Sir, my co-accused who are based in Leeuwkop Prison, used to get visits from high ranking members of the ANC.  For example, comrade Ronnie Kasrils, Paul Machatile, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, Robert McBride,  ...(indistinct).  
	Now it seems as if something was discussed because this Thabo Motaung visited one of my co-accused in Kroonstad.  The reason why he visited my co-accused in Kroonstad was that he wanted to come and tell him that he lied in the Court.  There is even a letter which is in the possession of my co-accused Fusi Simon Mofokeng, where this man it's alleged that he was promised, I don't know 75.000,00.  The letter is in our possession, Sir.  It's with my co-accused, Fusi Mofokeng.  
	Now it is very clear that that man lied, he did not know me, Sir.  I had only less than four weeks in South Africa, it was for the first time I went to that place, Sir.  Even at the parade that man did not point at me, he did not identify me, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: When was the very first time that you saw him?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: That was in Kroonstad identify parade, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: So he wasn't - when you said you stopped off in Bethlehem and while you waited for Nxala and Ndabeni to go and sort out their money problems you didn't see him at that stage?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: No, no, no, negative, Sir, I did not see him, Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Lastly, you say he was younger than your youngest brother, how old is your youngest brother?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: My youngest brother is about 27 years, somewhere there, I'm not sure, it's about 27 years.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: When you stopped the vehicle that you were in, when you and your co-applicant got out together with Nxala and starting walking away, was the bonnet of that vehicle opened at all?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Sir, I did not notice, I did not notice that, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have any difficulty with the vehicle, mechanical difficulty, problems?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Yes, I will probably say that because when we left that garage there seemed to have been a problem but I think the driver can explain it, but something was wrong with that car even though I'm not sure what was that, Sir, but something was wrong.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know Tshokolo Joseph Mokoena?

STEPHEN DONALD MAKHURA: Well he is one of my co-accused, Sir.  It was for the first time I see him in Court.

CHAIRPERSON: When did you meet the fourth applicant, that is Fusi Simon Mofokeng?