Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-06

WITNESS:   That is correct.  The gang with which he was patrolling left, together with him, to Nseleni.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What did the chief say after your brother-in-law's house was burnt?

WITNESS:   They were arrested and they were ... (intervention)

KHOZA MGOJO:  For how long were they arrested?

WITNESS:   It was hardly a month.

KHOZA MGOJO:  It was hardly a month.  And what did the chief say?

WITNESS:   The chief called a meeting at the local school, so that the matter could be thrashed out.  Then Chief Mathaba came and they asked as to whether these people should be brought back to the place, that is Gingindhlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Go on, talk.

WITNESS:   They never came back and they only came back to attack for the second time.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You did not tell us as to when they attacked.

WITNESS:  It was on the 11th September 1992.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What did they do then?  Just give us a picture as to what happened.  Here they come at your place on the 11th September 1992.

WITNESS:   During the day I was at my home and during the night I could hear some gunshots.  When I woke up it was at about twenty-five past one in the morning.  As I was just listening then there came Jocko Gumede.  He knocked at my mother's door and he said we should go to my sister's house.  Jocko Gumede, he told me that my sister and their children had been killed.

KHOZA MGOJO:  He said you must go to your sister's place?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is Jocko Gumede still alive?

WITNESS:   He is alive.  He is staying at Gobandhlovu.

KHOZA MGOJO:  He said they had been killed?

WITNESS:   That is correct, and he said we must go and extinguish the fire, because the house was on fire, it was burning.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Which means they set the house alight?

WITNESS:   They first shot them and they set them alight and they also set the house alight.  I think it was a petrol bomb.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is there any survivor?

WITNESS:   Yes, Thabani was inside the house.  Thabani Mncube, the youngest one who was there.  All the other ones died.  There was a six-month old, Thabile, who survived the attack, but she was admitted.  She was also petrol-bombed on the left, as well as the hand, and her face was also burnt away.

KHOZA MGOJO:  So now she's disabled?

WITNESS:   Yes, she is.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about Thabani Mncube?

WITNESS:   Thabani Mncube was hiding, so he did not burn.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Who got Thabile after everybody else had been burnt?

WITNESS:   We were the ones who got her in the yard, so she's staying with me now.  She was six months old at the time.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What happened?  Did she crawl or what happened?

WITNESS:   Jocko rescued some of them and my brother-in-law had not yet died.  He crawled outside and the house fell on the other remaining members of the family, when it was being burnt down.

KHOZA MGOJO:  That's a horrible scene, like something from a horror movie.  They were killed by members of the IFP?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You said they were arrested for about a month.

WITNESS:  They got arrested for the second time and we were not notified when they were released.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did you ever go to the case?

WITNESS:   No, there's nothing that came out of the whole incident.  There was no case.  Probably they were not yet arrested.  We went to submit a statement at the police station.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Who was submitting the statement?

WITNESS:   Tholithemba.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Where did he submit the statement to?

WITNESS:   At Esikhaweni Police Station, and the detective was Gumede.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is Gumede still alive?

WITNESS:   He is alive and he is still staying at Esikhaweni.  I don't know his first name.  I only know his surname.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Have you ever seen him after the incident?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Have you ever talked about the incident?

WITNESS:   He took Tholithemba and they went to Nseleni.  They arrested those who had come to Gobandhlovu and attacked us.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, which means the case has not yet been to court?

WITNESS:   No, it hasn't.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did you get death certificates?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.

KHOZA MGOJO:  All of them?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Did they ever tell you as to what the cause of death was?

WITNESS:   Jameson was shot.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And what about the others?

WITNESS:   Gugu also was shot.  Tholani and Thokosani were also shot.  Nomusa was burnt.  Joyce was burnt, as well as Sindisiwe.  Others were shot only and others were shot and burnt later on.

KHOZA MGOJO:  This is a horrible picture you're painting to us, the whole family being burnt down to ashes in a matter of hours.  So you left with the surviving children?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  How do you make ends meet and how are they?

WITNESS:   Thabile is crippled on her left hand, as well as her left

KHOZA MGOJO: /wrist never

KHOZA MGOJO: breast never developed, as well as - the whole left side was actually burnt away.  She does not have a breast.  It never developed because she was burnt on the left side.  She also does not have an ear.  She does not have fingers and her hand can't stretch.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Can she speak?

WITNESS:   Yes, she can.

KHOZA MGOJO:  The other one?

WITNESS:   There is no other one.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What about yourself?

WITNESS:   No, I'm fine.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Mentally, how are you feeling?

WITNESS:   I don't have a problem.  I'm fine.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Who helps you to maintain the surviving children?

WITNESS:   I am not being assisted by anyone.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now, you are maintaining them and doing everything on the meagre salary that you get on your part-time job?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is Mathabela still alive and Bheki Ndlovu?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are.

KHOZA MGOJO:  If we can go to Nseleni can we possibly find them?

WITNESS:   Yes, you can find them.

KHOZA MGOJO:  As you've come before this Commission, what are your expectations or your wishes?

WITNESS:   I wish that Thabile could receive treatment, because I was always taking her to Ngwelezana Hospital and because I do not have medical aid I could not continue making her take treatment.  If she could undergo some plastic surgery I would appreciate it.

KHOZA MGOJO:  You want her to undergo plastic surgery on the face?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What else?

WITNESS:   As well as support for the remaining children.

KHOZA MGOJO:  And what else?

WITNESS:   And to have a shelter for them, because their houses were burnt down.  We don't have a place to stay.  That's all I request this Commission.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Wouldn't you like to see the people who attacked your family?

WITNESS:   Yes, it is my wish to see them and it is my wish for them to be brought to book.

KHOZA MGOJO:  I'm going to repeat these requests of yours and Thabile will also need psychiatric treatment, that is besides the face, because she went through an ordeal quite at an early age, so she might have been mentally disturbed.  I'll repeat your requests.  I do not promise that we can deliver, but we will pass these recommendations to the State President to give a final decision as to how you could be helped.  You said you wish that Thabile could undergo plastic surgery and you said you wanted to be helped with regard to support and education.  You wish to get a place to stay, together with the children.  You want the perpetrators to be brought to book, so that they can pay for their sins.  We also said Thabile should be seen by the psychologists, in order to be assessed.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

MRS GCABASHE: Babekhile, I want to ask you about Thabile.  According to your own observation, you have talked about the left leg.  Is it the leg or the arm?  How are her legs?

WITNESS:   No, her legs are quite fine, both of them.