Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-12

MR NGECE: He is a soldier.  He said that he could not go.  The answer came the following day and there was a report that they had completed their job and then he started being harassed.

ADV SANDI: Who said that?

MR NGECE: Madoda Kula.

ADV SANDI: Where is he?  Do you know him?

MR NGECE: Yes, I know him.

ADV SANDI: Is he here in the hall?

MR NGECE: Yes, he is here.  There he is.

ADV SANDI: Is that all the evidence you have?

MR NGECE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Can we go back to Mrs Ngece.  Mam, were you able to identify the perpetrators?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: Were they masked?

MRS NGECE: I was sleeping.  I just heard a voice.

ADV SANDI: Did you recognise any voices?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: After a while, did you find out who it was that had done this?

MRS NGECE: Mr Galane came to us saying that he was investigating a Dimbasa case and light came to our case as well.  Three people, Madoda Kula, Sandile Mati and Welcome Maronono.

ADV SANDI: Did  he question these people or interrogate them?

MRS NGECE: There was a case and the, with the three of them, but the case kept on being postponed.

ADV SANDI: Has the case been concluded?

MRS NGECE: The case was withdrawn, because, apparently, Nokuzola who had opened the door, said that she could not identify the people, but she could identify Sandile Mati?

ADV SANDI: Could she identify anybody else?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: Where was she identifying these people?

MRS NGECE: She was called  to a parade.

ADV SANDI: Is there something else that you would like to talk about?  Nombuyiselo, is there something else, mam?

MRS NGECE: No, if he continued with the story then it is alright.

ADV SANDI: What is this story about somebody buying you a jersey?  Who is it?

MRS NGECE: It was Dansda.

ADV SANDI: Was he the one who bought you the boots and the jersey?

MRS NGECE: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Who is Dansda?

MRS NGECE: I thought that he had bought me the jersey because we have the same clan name.

ADV SANDI: Is he a policeman or a soldier?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: Did Tsanda mention Dansda's name at all?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: So it is not related at all?

MRS NGECE: No.

ADV SANDI: Do you have requests before the Commission?

MRS NGECE: Yes, we have requests

ADV SANDI: Please go ahead.

MRS NGECE: First of all, I request that the Commission investigates this matter fully.  We would like the perpetrators to divulge everything and let the justice take its course.  If I  say I forgive these people, I would just be saying it.  I cannot forgive these people.  My child asked day and night where her father is.  I cannot forgive them.  They are with their children.  Sometimes Kayda points at men, at other men, strangers saying that it is her father.

ADV SANDI: How old is Kayda?

MRS NGECE: She is seven years old.

ADV SANDI: Is that all the evidence we have?

MR NGECE: I am going to agree with my sister-in-law.   I have no forgiveness for these people.  I hope that one day, whenever that is, they come before the Commission.  When people look at me in the streets they conclude that I am a criminal.  We had my brother killed.  There is no peace in my heart.  These people in the community look at me and they laugh.  These people, if the Commission finds these people I request that these people be jailed all  their lives.   I never want to see them again.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I am handing over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any questions?  Sorry, Mr Ngece, did this incident occur the same day as the "Buddy" incident in the village?

MR NGECE: Yes, it was the same day.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there two groups attacking the two homes or was it the same group?

MR NGECE: It was two groups.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it Mr Galana or Galena?

MR NGECE: It is Mr Galena.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he investigating this case?

MR NGECE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Until it was taken to court?

MR NGECE: Yes.  No, the case would be postponed now and again.  They would promise that the case would be taken to the Regional Court, but that never happened until it was withdrawn.

CHAIRPERSON: Therefore, Mr Galane, will, sort of, give us a lead?

MR NGECE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: There is a Mr Dansda who claims that he knows all the people who were involved.  How was he involved, was he one of these people?

MR NGECE: I do not know sir, because Mr Dansda was not working at the time, but before that he was working in Transkei with Lizo Lomzie.  He stayed in Msobomvu.  He said that I must go to him, because he has got all the information.

CHAIRPERSON: These people that you have mentioned in your statement, maybe Nombuyiselo can  answer this question, because it is her statement. Madoda Kula, Welcome Maronono, Sandile Mati, these three people you did not see them on that day?

MRS NGECE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dansda told you?

MRS NGECE: No Galane told us.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  There is Madoda Kula here with his advocate.  They want to dispute some of the things that are in the statement.