Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: I'm referring to the part of Penduka that was known as "no-go" area.  As we were listening to all these gunshots, because of the fact that we were people who were, it was the end and whenever people would be running for safety they would run and approach our area.  	"So that particular day it was myself, Xholile and Spaza and others.  We were quite many.  Now I'm referring to Lusaka-A.  These comrades arrived with photos or pictures, the real pictures, not photographs, no, not newspaper articles but the photographs and we learnt from those photographs that some of them were members of Inkatha and we learnt that some of them resided in the same area as us, and they requested some help from us and they said things are so bad where they were coming from, which was the upper area from ours, and they told us that these are the people who ...(indistinct) identified in this area, if they are available or around.
	We left immediately and we went to the house that we knew the occupants were Inkatha members.  As we gained entry into the house they fled.  We were left alone in that house.  
	When we got out of the house trying to search for them, hunting from one street to another, unfortunately when we were at Mgaki just before we crossed to Lusaka-B one of the houses around there, it was found that one of them was hiding in that particular house.  When we got there we realised that he is one of the people appearing on this photograph.  
	We kept arguing with him trying to establish the truth as to why would he be involved in other dirty works and yet we reside with him in the same area.  Why would he behave in such a manner.
	As we were arguing with this gentleman and he was disputing every fact that we were putting across, they guys who had the photographs arrived instantly and they showed him the photograph.  We said now that you are disputing all the facts we are putting across, who is this appearing on this photograph?  Then we had this altercation with this gentleman and we did not have any weapons, we were not armed in other words.  He tried to run away but fortunately one of our comrades approached as he was trying to run away and he had in his possession an AK47, and he shot once.  The sound of the AK47 was unusual, it was an unusual sound.
	Now that it was so close we had to fly and run away as well.  We fled the scene because we were so scared as to what was happening now as a result of the sound emanating from the AK47.

MR SIBEKO: Your comrades came to you with those photos, the photos of IFP members, what was wrong with the photos?  What was the reason for him to bring those photos to you?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: ...(no English translation)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibeko, just hold on for a minute.  I think we might have a problem with the translation.  You're client's testimony that he had just given was not interpreter so perhaps you can just lead him on that again, on the photographs, the point that you were making about what was unusual about the photographs.  Perhaps you can just repeat that.

MR SIBEKO: Mr Majiki, you told us that your comrades came to you with photos of IFP members, what was wrong with the IFP members in those photos, what was the significance of those photos to you?
MR MAJIKI
"The way we looked at those photos, it appeared to us that they were some evidence to us that they were informers as it was common cause at the   time.
	Now these particular photos were some kind of evidence that amongst the residents there are some informers, as there was that division that there would be IFP members one side and ANC one side.  Now these photos were part of the evidence, a piece of evidence that we had in our possession as we had all the atrocities that were going on in the area, finding that people have been killed during the night and we discover that in the morning.  And we will patrolling in the dark, we will not be knowing what's happening."

ADV GCABASHE: Can I just interrupt.  Mr Majiki, it's still not too clear to me as to what was depicted on the photographs, what made you decide or agree that these particular people were either IFP people or people who associated with people who were attacking you?  What did you see, was it a party, was it dead bodies with them standing next to them?  I'm not too sure as to what you saw in these photographs.

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: I will say in our area, residential area, we had this conflict facing the Xhosas and Zulus as well and it went on to an extent that it did not discriminate.  Now anybody would be affected, even Sotho's as well would be part of this.
	At night when there would be attacks they would attack indiscriminately and they would kill at random just like that and in the morning we will discover dead bodies because of that.  
	In our residential area we knew that we did not need any IFP member, especially in the section we occupied.  We were not quite sure about their activities inasfar as the attack was concerned, so we managed to leave or be isolated from them so that it is clear that they fall in one group and we are in the other group.
Just to continue, from these photographs I will say that the first house that we went to we got inside the house and they ran away, they fled and they never came back.  To date they never came back to that house.  So the house has different or new occupants.
	Now these are the photos that helped us identify the law abiding citizens and the acceptable citizens as well and isolate us or ourselves from the Inkatha people or sympathizers."

MR SIBEKO: Mr Majiki, by the time you ...(intervention)

ADV SANDI: I'm sorry, Mr Sibeko.  I think the witness has not - in my understanding, if I follow his answer to the question that was asked by my colleague I think he's not, he's made no attempt whatsoever to answer that question.
	Mr Majiki, what exactly did you see in these photographs?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: We saw people on those pictures, many people who had red headbands with spears in their hands.  They also had T-shirts of their organisation that they belonged to.

ADV SANDI: This person you were talking about, was he also one of these people on this photograph?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: The one I'm talking about is the very one who was in the front of the whole group that appeared on the picture.

ADV SANDI: Who did you say came with these photographs to you?  Did you say it was - they were your comrades?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: May I ask if you are referring to the ones appearing on the picture or the ones who brought the pictures, the photos?

ADV SANDI: The ones who brought the pictures.

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, they were comrades, the ones that brought the photos were comrades.

ADV SANDI: Where did they say they got them from?  Did they tell you who had taken the pictures?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: No, they did not say as to where they got those photos.

ADV SANDI: Thank you.

MR SIBEKO: Now Mr Majiki, having looked at these photographs, how did you come to the conclusion that these people were at the time at that particular house which you visited?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Lusaka-A as our residential area, as the community we will know exactly as to who is residing in a particular house and who is the occupant of this house and if they are Sothos and so and so on.  And we will also know that at Ndlovu's house there will be having also in the same premises Xhosa speaking people or Zulus and so on.

MR SIBEKO: I'm not yet answered.  In those photographs - let us start here, at the time those photographs were taken, were these people outside the house or inside?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: These are pictures of the people who formed part of the march.  The people who appeared on these photos were people who were in a march.