Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-06-23

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I think because there was no formal regiment of discipline within the CCB, to use Defence Force terms, disciplinary actions were left to the discretion of Regional Managers in co-ordination with Mr Verster.  I'd say that because Mr Botha acted against the guidelines we wanted to punish him, if you want, that's why he was suspended for such a period of time with the objective that he wouldn't make himself guilty of such a thing again.

CHAIRPERSON: If a person's suspended knowing that at the end of the day of his suspension he's going to face some sort of disciplinary action, then I can understand the suspension, but if I'm naughty and my boss comes to me and says "Well you've been naughty, you can take leave with pay for six months" or "Don't come to work for six months but you'll get your full salary."  I just can't under any circumstance, understand how that can be seen to be a disciplinary measure.  In fact it's like giving a person leave.

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I understand that you make that statement.  The members in the CCB were very active and they wanted to take part in this anti-insurgency process and the biggest punishment you could give somebody was to do this.

MR KAHANOVITZ: In fact evidence has been given in other proceedings of two examples of how Mr Botha tried to impress his superiors while he was placed on ice, in the hope that he would once again gain good favour.

WOUTER J BASSON: Who said that?  Mr Barnard?

MR KAHANOVITZ: No, Mr Botha.

WOUTER J BASSON: But who said that?

MR KAHANOVITZ: Well I'm going to give you the two incidents.

WOUTER J BASSON: Okay.

MR KAHANOVITZ: The one relates to the recruitment of Donald Aitchison.  You're aware of that?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, I'm aware of it.  I just want to say that - yes, Mr Botha came to us with the name of this person.  I wasn't aware of the fact that he got the details from Mr Barnard.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But if you read both Mr Barnard and Mr Botha's statements, what they say happened is the following.  Barnard initially recruited Aitchison where a friend of his in the Police Force, a W/O Knox, contacted him and told him that he'd arrested this guy Aitchison and he might be the kind of person that Barnard was interested in.

WOUTER J BASSON: I think I read that, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.  And what then happened was that Barnard and Botha who were aware that Botha had got into trouble with the CCB, agreed that Botha would bring Aitchison along to the CCB, in the hope that this would impress Joe Verster.

WOUTER J BASSON: Well Chairperson, if I can comment on that, if that was Mr Botha's objective to impress somebody, then he didn't succeed because his period of suspension was not lifted because of that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: The other incident is the Webster assassination, and here the suggestion was that Botha drove the car for Barnard, in the hope that his participation in eliminating this opponent of the State would impress his superiors.

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, if that's what they thought then that's what they thought, I cannot comment any more on that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But the point is, if that idea which they had was to have any impact, their superiors would have to find out that they were involved, you agree with me?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, it makes sense.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now were you involved - let me put the question this way, Chappie Maree became Donald Aitchison's handler, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What projects was Aitchison to be involved in?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, Aitchison was recruited and he was tasked to establish himself in the then South West Africa, now Namibia.  It was decided specifically to use him as a long term project to deploy after the elections.  He had to establish himself physically in Windhoek, he had to make contacts, he had to look for work.  So in terms of establishment, Mr Aitchison was used by Mr Maree.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Mr Aitchison was a self-styled, or what he called himself, an international mercenary, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, you can say lots of things if you want to impress other people.

MR KAHANOVITZ: To call a spade a spade, he was a low life.

WOUTER J BASSON: Please repeat.

MR KAHANOVITZ: A low life.  "'n Skurk".

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, he ...(intervention)

MR KAHANOVITZ: How would you want to describe him?  Let's put it that way.

WOUTER J BASSON: I remember I read his CV at that stage and he seemed to me to be somebody who pretends to be what he isn't.  If one is exactly like him, then - I don't know.  I was quite sceptical about what I read.  But if you want to ask me if he was a scum bag, then probably he was.

MR KAHANOVITZ: And he wanted to project himself - whether this was true or not, he projected himself to the CCB as a potential assassin.

WOUTER J BASSON: I think the impression - ja, you can get that impression.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Ja, he claimed that he had skills in that regard?

WOUTER J BASSON: I can't remember everything that appeared in his CV, but you could make that assumption, yes.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now Aitchison told the Namibian Police in a sworn statement that he was tasked to assassinate the Editor of the Namibian newspaper, Gwen Lister, and that the plan would involve inserting toxic tampons into her hygiene kit.

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I'm not aware of that.

MR KAHANOVITZ: When Aitchison was arrested in Windhoek, the CCB paid for his legal fees, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I'm not aware of it.  I don't deny it, but I'm not aware of it.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Now page 1186 of your testimony at the Harms Commission, you indicate there that the CCB was interested in the activities of the End Conscription Campaign, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: That's correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: What were you told was to be done about the End Conscription Campaign?

WOUTER J BASSON: Well apart from the order from Mr Verster ...(intervention)

MR KAHANOVITZ: Okay maybe I can ask the question more specifically.  Tell me what projects were launched related to the ECC.

WOUTER J BASSON: Only the project with regard to Evans.

MR KAHANOVITZ: But wasn't Roland White also an ECC person?

WOUTER J BASSON: Roland White, I cannot remember.  If he was, then I accept it, but there was no project on him.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Do you remember the name Lawrie Nathan?

WOUTER J BASSON: Chairperson, I've listened to these names, I want to remember the name but I can't place him.  I'm not sure.

MR KAHANOVITZ: Alright.  Then at page 1189 you denied to the Harms Commission that there was a project to kill Gavin Evans.

WOUTER J BASSON: No, I ...(intervention)

MR P DU PLESSIS: Could we just get the sentence referred to specifically.

MR KAHANOVITZ: ...(indistinct) from the top of the page to round about line 15.  He's being asked questions about his diary.  Well I'm particularly interested in the sentence - you see you're asked about your diary entry, the one that I cross-examined Mr Burger about yesterday and the entry concerning
"Bert must chase Grosskopf and his supporters ..."
no, sorry the wording is:
"Bert must chase Grosskopf and make his supporters fall over"
and then there's a dash and it says:
"Gavin Evans"
Right.  In your amnesty application you say that one of the reasons, or the main reason for wanting to assassinate Evans was related to the belief that he was in some or other way associated with Grosskopf, correct?

WOUTER J BASSON: Yes, correct.

MR KAHANOVITZ: From that I infer that you agree that the entry in your diary relates to just that statement.