Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-24

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  Mrs Matlhoko, perhaps I can just ask you a question or two.  When eventually you got to the hospital and eventually to the mortuary to collect the body of your son, he was then buried.  Can you tell us about the funeral, please.

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: I was able to make preparations for the funeral, ANC members helped me where they will able to.  Then I was able to bury my son.

PROF MEIRING: They helped you with the finances for paying for the funeral.

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: They gave me R700,00 and there were some other debts which were left which I paid later, because I had another debt, which I was able to pay after the funeral.

PROF MEIRING: I would like to ask of you, was there an inquest, did you report the matter to the police and did they take it over, did they make an enquiry about the whole thing?

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: When they were making an inquest for my child, I was not there, because when I went to see him at the mortuary, they said he was supposed to be taken to Johannesburg to be treated there.  It was on Thursday when I went to Mandrop to look for a coffin, it was then that he arrived from Johannesburg.  One of the men told me, who was working at the mortuary, who said to me this is your son, he has just come back from Johannesburg.  That was the time when he was brought from the inquest in Johannesburg. I was not told when they are going to do the inquest.

PROF MEIRING: You didn't hear anything after his death, there was no police report, no findings of an inquest sent to you.

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: The police didn't come to tell me anything.
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PROF MEIRING: The next question I would like to ask you, you are left with your three daughters.  How old are they?

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: The first one is married, she is 28 years.  The second one, she is staying with me, she is 25 years, the third one is 22 years.

PROF MEIRING: Do they look after you or do you have to work for your own upkeep?

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: I am the one who is taking care of them, and there is no other person who is helping me.

PROF MEIRING: What work do you do?

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: I am working as a domestic worker, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much.  Those are my questions, but I think that some of my colleagues at the table would like to add to the questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera?

DR RANDERA: Mrs Matlhoko, I just want to - my first question is for clarification.  When you and your nephew talk about Inkatha, is this just a vigilante group that was there in Tigane, or were these people actually members of the Inkatha Freedom Party?

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: We could just say they are members of Inkatha, but at the same time we are not quite sure.  At our place called Tigane we have no hostel, where we know that Inkatha used to be. It is just a normal area. They call themselves Inkatha but they are Tswana people.

DR RANDERA: So these are - this is just a vigilante group in the area.  They were not members of the Inkatha Freedom Party necessarily.

THETIWE JULIA MATLHOKO: Those are the residents of Tigane, those are the people that we know.  They just used to call themselves Inkatha people.
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DR RANDERA: Can I ask your nephew to give his idea of that, please.

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: What I could say is, it is a gang of people who grew up in Tigane.  Thereafter they just called themselves Inkatha people. I would not verify that they are Inkatha people, they are just a gang of vigilantes, who are just against the people of Inkatha, who are just against ANC. I would say those are people that were bought by the police to be against the ANC.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  That helps me a great deal. I just want to know from you again, what was the atmosphere in Tigane at the time, what was happening.  You said that there was a funeral of a comrade that was taking place.  Can you just describe to us what was going on in the township at that time?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: At that time the location was full of confusion. Those people, so-called Inkatha people were confusing the people.  They didn't want to see ANC members.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you, Chairperson. Isaac, it is important for us to clarify exactly what happened and also to make sure that we don't have a misunderstanding and it is particularly important because we didn't get the written statement from you, independently. It seems that if what we were furnished with, was a combined statement by yourself and Mrs Matlhoko.  Now I just want to fill in the picture, so that we don't have a misunderstanding of exactly what happened.
 According to the written statement in our possession, your group that didn't run away, that remained, were confronted by two members of this group, this Inkatha group and your group then chased these two Inkatha members away
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and the Inkatha members seemed to have then or then ran to the house of Percy Pofolo.  Do you confirm that is actually what happened in detail?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: I agree with that, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You then saw six Inkatha members, sitting in front of their leader's house. Is that correct?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: Yes, that's true.

ADV POTGIETER: Who was the leader of this group, of the Inkatha group?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: They were at Percy Pofolo's house.

ADV POTGIETER: Then, according to the statement, a person by the name of Vuzi took out a pump gun from underneath, I suppose his lumber-jacket and he started shooting. Is that correct?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: That's true, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you know the surname of Vuzi?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: I don't know his surname, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Does he also live in Tigane?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: No, Sir, he stays at Bekkersdal.

ADV POTGIETER: And the second person who shot, Apie, that you referred to, the one with the pistol, the 9 mm pistol, does he live in Tigane?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: Yes, he stays at Tigane, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: I'm sorry, I might have missed it, but were these people ever charged for the murder?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: I don't know if there was a case opened.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you make a statement to the police?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: No, Sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Tame, I would like to ask you two questions.  Vuzi, was he a member of the Inkatha gang?
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ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: He was a member of that gang from Bekkersdal.

CHAIRPERSON: The other question I wanted to ask, is that it seems that the trouble happened because members of one group were passing through an area of another, and in fact in the statement he talks about a "no-go" area.  Would you give us more information on what this "no-go" area was about, please.

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: There is a section called Extension, that is the base where they were staying there and we were just passing there.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you not allowed to walk through there?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: That is the road we used to use when we go to the other area.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Dr Randera wants to ask one more question.

DR RANDERA: Sorry, Mr Nmani, this "no-go" area on that day, did you know that the Inkatha people would be there?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: We didn't know that they would be there, because we were accompanying people to Moscow.

DR RANDERA: You weren't actually daring this group at the time?

ISAAC TIMANE NMANI: There were no threats, there was no daring.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mamma, for sharing your story with us.  We will of course have to take a statement from Tami, so that at least your statement can be supported by his.  We will look into the matter and try and come back to you on it.  Thank you for sharing that with us.