Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-13

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were cross-examined, I think it was by Mr Lowies, you indicated that at some stage - this is the stage I would like you to clarify for me, when you heard the noise you went to the gate and then you saw nothing and you returned to your house and continued watching television.  Do you remember that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Now when you went to the gate, was the Koyoco, or had the Koyoco that you saw already arrived or was it before?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No, it was before it arrived.

CHAIRPERSON: It hadn't?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It had not arrived.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And then you said that after the Koyoco had left - I'm now talking about the Koyoco that you saw on your garden, are you with me?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You said after that Koyoco had left you then saw a crowd, a group of people, is that right?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is right.

CHAIRPERSON: And I think you estimated them at about 400.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It must have been over 500.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Were these people passing next to your house, on the street next to your house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There were some walking in the middle of the street and some were walking along the sides.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And it was part of this crowd that went to Mr Buwa's house and the other one went to Mr ...(indistinct) house.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: The people who were walking along the sides were the ones who went into the Buwa and ...(indistinct) households.

CHAIRPERSON: This is what I want to find out.  When you saw Mr Zulu, had this group of people gone past your house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: They were just walking along because they were a throng of people, some carrying goods.  The people had already gone into Buwa's house and it was at that time that I saw him.

CHAIRPERSON: Whilst there were people at Buwa's place, was part of the crowd or the group of people that you had seen still going past your house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, there were many of them, they were still passing.  These other people just went into these houses and did what they wanted to do.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you mentioned, I think you said about three people came to your house, amongst the three there was a person who had an axe.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now as these people were coming onto your house, was part of this crowd that you had seen earlier on still going past your house?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, they were still passing by.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: Now in regard to the items that were either stolen or damaged at your house, you mentioned that - was the gate to your house damaged?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And the front door was also damaged, was it?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the hi-fi set was also damaged, was it?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, it was damaged outside the house.

CHAIRPERSON: And then the television set was stolen?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It fell on the ground.  Yes, it was damaged.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And the bedroom door, the door to your bedroom was also damaged?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Apart from these items, were there any other items that were damaged or stolen?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There were items of clothing that were stolen.  It belonged to a small child.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything else?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: And the windows, four windows.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: ...(no English interpretation)

CHAIRPERSON: Would that be for what, for the dressing table?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: As a window was thrown into - as a stone was thrown into the window a dressing table window was shattered.

MR LAX: Just repeat that please, I didn't catch it all.

INTERPRETER: He said a stone was thrown through the window, a dressing table glass was shattered.

MR LAX: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you at any stage make a statement to the TRC, setting out the damage to your house, things that were stolen?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Yes, there were some statements, but I don't think I ...(intervention)

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, we have submitted forms on behalf of all of the victims.  We've lodged them with the TRC.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay.

UNKNOWN: It was done last year already.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes.  Is there a cut-off date in regard to this?

UNKNOWN: I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, okay.

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Baloyi, I was looking at the map here of the footbridge, the pedestrian bridge, what goes underneath the bridge?  Initially I thought maybe it's a bridge over Frikkie Meyer, but when you look at the map it's just between Frikkie Meyers and the township.  What goes underneath the bridge?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: ...(no English interpretation)

MR SIBANYONI: The footbridge.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: Footbridge?

MR SIBANYONI: Yes.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: It is just water, water from the factories as well as drain water.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Chairperson, I also want to seek your indulgence, I've also got one question.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Actually one statement and one question.
	Mr Baloyi, you did not testify at the Goldstone Commission, is that correct?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I never went to court, they refused me entry.  I was supposed to be the first person, but I was refused entry.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, the question I want to ask you is; did you give your version of what happened to the ANC or their legal representatives at the time that the Goldstone Commission was in progress, or just before that?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There have been many statements that have been taken from me.  I did give information to the Goldstone Commission as well as in Delmas.  I have given statements there.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the - have you ever heard of the Goldstone Commission?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: There was talk about it, but I cannot say who it was.

CHAIRPERSON: But as far as you can recall you have never testified before a judge or an inquiry such as this one, do you know?

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: No.  We were taken there many times but never had the opportunity to speak.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: That's all thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you, Mr Baloyi, you may stand down.

MACHIHLILE WILSON BALOYI: I thank the Committee.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: At least I kept my promise.

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, my learned friend, Mr Malindi will lead the next witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.

MR MALINDI: Thank you, Chairperson.  Chairperson, the next witness will be Thabo Johannes Rahantlhane: R-A-H-A-N-T-L-H ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Will you just come again.

MR MALINDI: R-A-H-A-N-T-L-H-A-N-E.

CHAIRPERSON: And the other names are?

MR MALINDI: Thabo Johannes.

CHAIRPERSON: And how do you pronounce the surname?

MR MALINDI: Rahantlhane.

CHAIRPERSON: Rahantlhane.

MR MALINDI: Yes, Chairperson.  The witness will testify in Sesotho, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.

MR MALINDI: May I proceed?

CHAIRPERSON: Is there an indication that he has objections to taking the oath?  We're not going to read anything into that refusal, unless you are deliberately ...

MR SIBANYONI: Mr Rahantlhane, would you rise.  Do you have any objection to taking the oath?

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: No.

MR SIBANYONI: Would you state your full names.

THABO JOHANNES RAHANTLHANE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you go on.  There is yet another document here which would appear to be a statement by Mr Buwa, is this statement intended to be handed in?