Amnesty Hearings — Durban — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   I was trained for six months in Hammanskraal about guns and how to use them, about the law and how police should work.

MR MARAIS: At that stage did you receive any training in the political arena?

WITNESS:   I was not trained.

MR MARAIS: After you left Hammanskraal where did you go?

WITNESS:  I left Hammanskraal 1980, December.  I went to the Security Headquarters.

MR MARAIS: Did you apply to go to the Security Headquarters or were you selected?

WITNESS:   I was selected.  I was selected at the college.

MR MARAIS: Do you know on what basis you were selected?

WITNESS:  I would not know.  I was told that my profile was checked and he said that he believed that I should go to the headquarters.

MR MARAIS: /WILSON J

WILSON J: How long had you been at Hammanskraal then?

WITNESS:   Six months.

WILSON J: Where were you before you went to Hammanskraal?

WITNESS:   I was in Krugersdorp Police Station as a student constable.

MR MARAIS: Did you do well during your training at Hammanskraal?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did well, Sir.

MR MARAIS: Were you interested in joining the Security Branch of the police?

WITNESS:   I agreed when they told me.  It is not something that I aspired to.  I had no idea about it.

MR MARAIS: You arrived at Security Headquarters then in December 1980, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, it is so.

MR MARAIS: Is that in Pretoria?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was in Pretoria.

MR MARAIS: And for how long were you at the headquarters?

WITNESS:  I was fetched by Solly Mahawu from the headquarters, who already worked there.  I was then taken home to deliver my goods as I was from the college.

MR MARAIS: Did you work in the headquarters of the Security Police in Pretoria?

WITNESS:   I worked from two to three days and then I was taken to Vlakplaas.

MR MARAIS: When you arrived at Vlakplaas who was in charge of the farm?

WITNESS:   There was Colonel Victor and Captain Dirk Coetzee.

MR MARAIS: Who was your immediate commander?

WITNESS:   It was Captain Dirk Coetzee.

MR MARAIS: Did you receive specific training at Vlakplaas about what your duties there would entail?

WITNESS:   I was not trained during the Dirk Coetzee era, but I was trained later on.

MR MARAIS: /What were

MR MARAIS: What were you told when you arrived at Vlakplaas about what your duties would be?

WITNESS:   I was not told specifically what I was going to do.  I was just showed the askaris that were already there.  They said that these are the people that came from the ANC and from the PAC, and I was going to work with them.

MR MARAIS: Were you told what kind of work you were going to do with them?

WITNESS:   Not at that time when I was introduced to them.  I was told when I left with them what I was going to do.

MR MARAIS: And what was that?

WITNESS:   I was told that they were going to identify the former Comrades.

MR MARAIS: Was the ANC and other resistance movements indicated to you as being the enemies of the country, and was that the enemy that you had to fight as a member of the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's what I was told.

MR MARAIS: At Vlakplaas?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

MR MARAIS: Did you see any of Captain Dirk Coetzee's superior officers at Vlakplaas during the time that you were there?

WITNESS:   Yes, quite a lot of times, Sir

MR MARAIS: Who did you see there?

WITNESS:   Colonel Skoon, Colonel Baker and Colonel Buchner.

MR MARAIS: What was your personal belief about the fact that the ANC was pointed out to you as the enemy of the State?

WITNESS:   I did believe it.

MR MARAIS: And were you willing to assist the police force in their fight against the ANC?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I was prepared.

MR MARAIS: And were you prepared to accept orders from your superiors in this regard?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

MR MARAIS: Now, you heard the evidence that Mr Coetzee gave

MR MARAIS: /about the

MR MARAIS: about the incident regarding Mr Mxenge yesterday.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, I did hear.

MR MARAIS: Can you recall what your first knowledge about this was, and when you got your first instruction in this regard?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do remember.

WILSON J: Can I clear up something please.  Was the evidence he gave interpreted to you yesterday?  The evidence Dirk Coetzee gave, was it interpreted into Xhosa?

WITNESS:   No, it was not interpreted to me, Sir.

MR MARAIS: Did you follow the evidence that Mr Coetzee was giving in English?

WITNESS:   Here and there, Sir, I would understand.

MR MARAIS: What was your first instruction about the killing of Mr Mxenge?

MR DE JAGER: Sorry, Mr Marais, perhaps before we proceed. Mr Mshe, what about the other applicants, have they got earphones?   Did they follow what's going on now?  Shouldn't we arrange that they could follow the evidence?  (Pause)

WILSON J: Mr Nofomela, you were asked yesterday if you wanted headphones, weren't you, and you said you didn't?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, that is so.

MR MARAIS: Mr Nofomela, can you indicate to the Committee when you received the first instruction, and what the first instruction was that you received about the killing of Mr Mxenge?

WITNESS:   I got my instruction when I was in C R Swart by Dirk Coetzee, that there is an attorney in Umlazi that should be killed, that I should be part of the people who are going to kill him.  He then told me that Joe should also be there.  Joe was not there at the time.  He then gave me his car.  He said he would

MR MARAIS: /arrange

MR MARAIS: arrange that I should find Joe at the farm.  I took Dirk's car.  When I got to Vlakplaas I found Sergeant Scott Gede.  I can't remember whether I found Joe at Vlakplaas or in Soweto.  I then came across Brigadier Skoon.  He told me that there is a mission that should be completed in Durban.  Usually when they're talking about a mission they are talking - they are referring that has nothing to do with identifying ANC and PAC members.  It means something else altogether.  It could mean you should go and steal a car.  That was a mission, something illegal.  I then only had to listen to what Dirk Coetzee would instruct me to do carefully.  Joe and I then went to Pretoria - sorry, Durban.

MR MARAIS: You're referring to Joe Mamasela?

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir.

MR MARAIS: And you and Joe Mamasela then returned to Durban after being given these instructions by Brigadier Skoon.

WITNESS:   Brigadier Skoon only talked to me.  Joe was not present at that time.  I was the only one who was told that I must listen to every word that Dirk Coetzee says.  He did not tell me the content, he just told me that there's something Joe and I should do.

MR MARAIS: What happened then when you arrived back in Durban?

WITNESS:   We were then called.  Dirk Coetzee emanated from where he would sleep.  I can't remember what the time was.  I was with Joe and Brian Ngulungwa.  I can't remember where we picked up David from, but we were told to pick him up.  There were four of us.  We were told that we must go look at the place where Mr Mxenge stays, and what car he uses, what route he usually uses.  We were shown the house.  I can't remember the time, but the people that were there were Captain Taylor, Sergeant Myeza was also

MR MARAIS: /there, Brian

MR MARAIS: there, Brian Ngulungwa, David Tshikalanga and myself, also Dirk Coetzee.  Those are the people I remember.  We went to see where he stays and where he works.

MR MARAIS: MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

MR MARAIS: (Inaudible) ... of the translation.

WITNESS:   Everything is all right.

MR MARAIS: I did not hear the answer to my previous question.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps you can repeat that question.

MR MARAIS: Was this on the day before the actual killing took place?

WITNESS:   Before we went to check where he stays, which routes he uses, and which house he stays in we just went to check where he stays.

CHAIRPERSON: They question was whether that was the day before the killing?