Human Rights Violation Hearings — Karoo — 1996-10-07

MARY BURTON: We call the next witness to the stage.  He is Headman Dwyali.  Do you know whether she is going to speak too.  Good morning.

HEADMAN DWYALI: Good morning to you to Ma'am.

MARY BURTON: Please will you stand to take the oath.  Will you switch the microphone on please just press the red button.  That's right.
HEADMAN DWYALI Duly sworn states.

MARY BURTON: Your testimony will be facilitated by Adv Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  Good morning Mr Dwyali, welcome here. There is somebody with you - is that your mother?

HEADMAN DWYALI: Yes, it's my mother.

ADV POTGIETER: Morning to Mrs Dwyali as well  and welcome to you as well and thank you for coming with your son.  
Now Mr Dwyali I want you to relax and tell us exactly what happened.  Now your testimony relates to your detention and what happened subsequent to that on the 4th  of July 1995.  
Now before we talk about that, the actual incident, perhaps you can tell us, in 1985 what were you doing then - were you a student?

HEADMAN DWYALI: No, I was not at school in 1985.  I had stopped schooling already.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you involved in the structures in the community that existed at that time.  We've already heard that was the sort of peak of activity and opposition to the system.

HEADMAN DWYALI: Yes,  I was political. - I was political.

ADV POTGIETER: Were you involved with [indistinct]  at that stage?

HEADMAN DWYALI: Yes I was.

ADV POTGIETER: [indistinct] congress in De Aar then.

HEADMAN DWYALI: Yes, there was sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you in fact got arrested and detained on the 4th of July in that year of 1985.  What did the police say, why were they taking you?

HEADMAN DWYALI: When they arrested me they said I was burning down structures.  All the structures that were burning down, they said I was involved.  They said I was involved in burning down a priest's house.

ADV POTGIETER: [Indistinct] person that was arrested in connection with these allegation or were you a group of people?

HEADMAN DWYALI: No, it was not me alone.  There were other people - there was a few of us.

ADV POTGIETER: And what did you gather, was the police just sort of questioning you in general, they did not have any specific information about your own involvement.

HEADMAN DWYALI: They were not asking me, they were telling me what I had done.

ADV POTGIETER: Now perhaps before we just move onto the incident, were you involved in, you say that you were involved in the youth structure, but how were you involved.  Were you just an ordinary member, were you on the executive, what sort of involvement were you.
MR

HEADMAN DWYALI: I was just a member,  I was not in the leadership.  I loved that organisation.

ADV POTGIETER: You say that the police took you in and they were telling you that this is what you have done.  How did things develop from there -  I assume you denied what they were saying.

HEADMAN DWYALI: Should I start my story now.

ADV POTGIETER: Yes, please do that.

HEADMAN DWYALI: I was arrested in the morning - his name was Snyman, Thomas and Smith.  These were the policemen that arrested me - China as well.  China is the one who pointed me out and  identified me as Madoda.  They took me in the morning.  They put me in a police van.  They drove me to the police station.  
When I got to the police station, they had taken other people with as well.  When we got to the police station, it was still  in the morning, we sat there.  Our parents came the same day to this police station to ascertain what happened.  They were told that they could not see us.  At about seven -  eight the same day,  Snyman and Thomas came and opened my cell.  
They took me into a van yet again.  I was asking myself where am I going in the evening.  I thought they were taking me to a place where they were going to take a statement.  The place was familiar, the building had two floors.  We went to the upper floor.  Thomas then said to me today I am going to tell the truth.  They said I must tell the truth, I had burned down those buildings.  You know exactly what's going on.  I said I do not know.  I was not there.  They said you are going to tell the truth today.
I don't know where Snyman emanated from, he had a sack he put it over my head.  I could not even move, because there were quite a few policemen there.  He put it on me, after he put it on  he took my hands behind my back, tied them.  After he tied my hands, he threw me on the floor.  I was told to lie on my back and look upwards, my legs were pushed up.
There is a cane that was put under me.  This cane, they put some stuff in my body as well.  My body  was just going funny in a very painful way, with sounds, I was crying and  crying.  Then they switched off whatever it is they were using.  They said I must tell the truth.  I burnt down the structures,  I said it was not me.  
They started again, they switched on whatever it is that they were using.   It was very painful, my strength evaded me.  They stopped again - they asked yet again.  I denied, again they started.  And eventually I just admitted.  They then said that they would stopped and they stopped.  
They put me in another office from that office.  Every man that came there into that office,  right through the night, just came to give me a beating.  It was all  boers.  I wanted to fight back, but I could not, because there was quite a few of them.  I don't know where they were coming from but everyone who came into that office, boxed me around, beating me up.  I really wanted to fight back, but when I looked, there were too many of them.  I don't know whether they got tired of beating me up.
Eventually they said I must go make a statement.  They took me into a cell,  I slept.  I told the other comrades, the accused, exactly what happened to me.  
My friend was taken and the same was done to him the following day.  I was sleeping during the day.  Our parents came, but they were - were not allowed to see us.  At about eight - nine in the evening, this policeman came again to fetch me from the cell.  They put me in a van.  There was no ventilation. I asked myself what type of a van is this.  I had never seen one before.  We drove away from De Aar, we stopped somewhere.  I don't know exactly where we were.
I heard a sound - they took a huge box out of the car.  It was just me and the van.  Somehow my head was being slapped back and fro.  I was dizzy.  There was tear gas everything -  I was falling all over.  There was no ventilation.  There is nothing I could break - it was just iron everywhere.  I was going up and down at the back of the van.  I was bereft of strength.  
They opened the van eventually and I just fell on the road.  Snyman kicked me.  He said I am going to tell the truth.  I was dizzy.  I was just crying, asking what have I done, they would not tell me.  They carried on until they were tired and they put me back into the van. They drove back - back to my cell.  
On the Saturday, we were sitting, all the comrades - we were singing.  A  policeman, Ngonmo Nbeni, walked past us.  He went into a van, he took something that's about  1/2  meter long.  He took it into the cell, it was tear gas.  There was confusion and chaos in the cell.  We did not know what to do.
Our parents were told not to come that day.  They were told that they could not see us.  We took our heads and put them in the toilet, because all we wanted was air, we wanted to breath.  We were fighting over the toilet.
At night they took us and threw us outside - that is the only time we got some air.  After we breathed sufficiently, they took us back into the cell.  
My life has never been the same.  I was sentenced twelve years in prison.  After I was sentenced I was mentally disturbed.  Now and again I get disturbed.  Even now -  I served my term and I was released when the other political prisoner were released.  This was after six months in jail.