Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-15

ELIZABETH NOTHEMBILE HASHE: On May 8, it happened that we received a telephone call.  Please excuse me, my mind is really troubled.  On May 8 this happened. My husband, now people are now joining P, they want to come and join... (end of tape)
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 (start of tape 3)....because we didn't have a telephone at my place we used my neighbour's telephone if there was
something.  He was there to answer.  On his return he gave us a report that the people who were working in the house, he said the telephone call was from Mr Fassi, he said we are wanted at the offices now.  We have to attend to a very urgent meeting at the airport.  He said to us we have a meeting that I have to attend with the British Consulate.  
 This went on, people joined.  During the day they would break and Mr Kaqaule would to is place to have lunch and Galela would do the same. While still working he would come back and say, "Ntobile, prepare me some meals", and I would go home, prepare some meals, it's now late, it's becoming dark and they have to leave now.  Busy preparing the food, not even on the plates, Mr Fassi stepped in.  They were driving in a red car.  Our van is in the garage. Mr Fasi entering the house would say,"My brother are you still here? When are you going to leave? You are late",  and he would stand up, prepare himself, he would go into the room and say, "Ntobile, please take care, I'll come and have my meal when I come back".  And I would go to him as he has mentioned, and I would say to him, "I will take everything that you have bought", he bought this hat from Mr Duze because he had a shaven head, so I said that is how he was easily recognised. He said, "I'm coming back",  and then I told him to put the hat on so that he can hide his shaven head. He told me where the money was, he told me that it was the organisation's money and also he told me where our money was and they were at separate places, our money and that of the organisation, because they were also selling liquor as off-sales.
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 He went away with Mr Fassi and Mr Ngoyi.  At the time
 when there was this telephone call, Mr Fassi brought a message that he , Mr Fassi, Mr Ngoyi, Malgas and my husband are called by the British Consulate who will fetch them from the airport.  Mr Fassi told him on their way that he, Mr Fassi and Ngoyi will not be going along because they are going to a meeting in Uitenhage.  He also told him that he should get some people who can give support and accompany him to the airport.  On their way to the airport, I'm a bit confused, but please bear with me, on their way to the airport, when they went out from the house, there was a police van which also reversed from our area.  They went past on the next street and my husband, whom I valued very much, went away together with Mr Galela, late.
 I didn't go to Mr Galeka's place to find out what is happening but now it was a long time since they left and I became so anxious because what kept them so long.  I was outside with one of my neighbours and one of the men who was also a member of this organisation, we saw a white car coming along next to our place, there were two whites in front and at the back we suspected that black people were sitting there.  And when we looked and scrutinised the car we could see that these people were carrying guns which were protruding through the windows at the back.  
 They asked whether we were fighting.  But when I was about to answer, this young man put a hand on my mouth because he knew that I was going to swear at these people, and then he answered himself and said that we were not fighting.
 The car went away to the next street and just it's front was visible. I was getting very restless now and I was EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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very anxious because I was looking at this car with the revolvers protruding out the windows, and I was anxious that my husband was not there to support me.  The girl next door was also anxious because she came along and informed me that this car was nearby and also that guns were protruding from the back windows.  At some stage the car just moved on and didn't go by the way in which they arrived.  It went along the Stefel Road next to the stadium and I was panicking all the time and wondering what was happening about my husband.  But I kept on hoping.  
 Later Mr Fassi came along again very early in the morning and he was also surprised that my husband was not back yet, and I also hopelessly informed him that he really didn't come back.  We are recognised relatives, Mr Fassi and I because we share the same clan name.  And then he advised me to take this issue to the attorneys and he also said that he recognised that the car, our van was not back yet, and that's what made him realise that my husband is not back yet.  As he went away, I was unhappy and I was also certain that he was arrested.
 I kept on wondering and I was also restless and late, but not very late, one lady came and said, "There are people who are reported to have got lost", and my husband was one of them.  I was also surprised and asked what is meant by saying my husband is lost? Sookie who informed me about this, said we must go along, because he came by car.  We went along trying to go to each and every charge office and we were afraid to get in, so that we knew that the minute we got in, they would do something to me because they already know me and that I was also in the struggle.  We were just putting the car outside and just peeped through, and 
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at the end we went to Port Elizabeth at Walmer.  
 We came back in vain.  There were young men who always held vigil as my husband was away. And they also learned about this tragedy that my husband has not come back, and were also panicking and asking themselves as to what happened. On the 8th, late at night, and on the 9th, the people came and so many of the children who were also recruited for this organisation came and we were also worried about the fact that we were unsure about the AZAPO Organisation, because each time when there was something which was done, it was said it was said that it was AZAPO which had caused anything which was bad in the community, but they would never be arrested. And then we started to doubt their relationship with the police and the security.
 And then we decided, that as they were all come along, because AZAPO and PASO were together at my place, and we felt that we should reduce the numbers so that not so many people at my place.  Late at night a person threw a stone into the house whilst I was feeding the children.  When I opened the door, I saw many torches and these were directed at my door.  I closed my door again and warned the children and said to the young men who were here, "These are the Boers who have come here, it is not AZAPO", and when I was saying this I was also worried that the children would be shot at.  I rushed out and I was shouting at everybody to be on guard and to be secure but at the same time there were a lot of people who were throwing stones at my house.
 When the house was burned some time back I had sewn some cloths and put some stones and gravel inside, and I would sew these little bags and put some stilts on the stones, knowing that we were going to fight against each 
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other,  the AZAPO and this PAKO.  At the same time I was giving instructions to all who were around of how to attack and also to defend ourselves.  And we were sure that we were going to use this heap of bags and bags of stones.  There was a child who was shot in the process, in the arm. Tear gas was thrown at our place and we were overpowered and we took the children away from the place and put them with my next door neighbour.  When I was trying to come around I saw a lot of people and at the same time I saw some fire and I did not know what was burning.  When I woke up the next door neighbour took me and said I must wait a bit, and we were talking in whispers and this gentleman told me to wait and see exactly what was happening so that I can give evidence.  At the same time I was unable to sit down.  I was so restless and I jumped out, I couldn't tolerate what was happening.  I could see that everyone was in my yard. The children were being assaulted, it was havoc and my children were also amongst those who were being attacked.
 There was also an explanation that the children were being arrested, we could hear the vans being closed and the Boers stayed in my house and they and they used Caspars and they cordoned the place and we couldn't move in.  So my place was their place and they were fully occupying my place and I couldn't do anything about it.  So I was next door watching them as they were enjoying themselves, they were celebrating their victory because they were having a braai and everybody was dancing amongst them.  We were helpless and couldn't do anything about this situation.  In the process one lady came in, and while we were there the police came next suspecting that I was accommodated in this house. So they broke the window but they didn't come in.
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 When we went there it was instructed that we should not touch or take anything in the house.  Because at that time they had dispersed.