Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:  We travelled then, the three of us, to Ixopo in my car, which was a blue Golf.  I was driving, Reggie was sitting next to me in the passenger seat, and Shaiks was sitting in the back.  We arrived at Ixopo and then went to the Anglican Church, where the meeting was meant to be taking place.  We met local members of the ANC at the meeting, in particular Mr Magubane, who was chair of the ANC in Ixopo.  There were also members of the IFP, in particular a Chief Dlamini who, as far as I recall, was a member of the KwaZulu Cabinet.  I think he was Deputy Minister of Agriculture, and Chief Khawula Ngwenya Mkhize.  There were also members of the police.  Eventually the meeting started at about 11 o'clock.  There was some delay because Dennis Nkosi from the Regional Peace Committee was late in arriving.  When the meeting started there were some problems in that Chief Dlamini arrived in the meeting with three men, young men in their 20s.  They introduced themselves as Luthingo, Luthuli or Ntuli, I can't remember which, and Mabaso, and they said they were his security.  The altercation was over whether they should be in the meeting or not, and eventually Chief Dlamini agreed that they should go out.  The altercation was really over that it wasn't usual for people to bring security guards or bodyguards into peace meetings.  The first item on the agenda was freedom of political association in the areas around Ixopo under local chiefs.  Chief Dlamini opposed discussion on the issue on the basis that not all local chiefs were present, and after discussion on the point it became apparent that the meeting could not proceed, and the meeting was then adjourned to a date in the future.  That was at approximately 12 o'clock.  The ANC had indicated that it wished to have a meeting with the police to discuss a memorandum that had been given in to the police some time before, and that meeting then, after a short break, commenced.  The issues that I remember discussing were, in particular, the question of the G3 firearms that were present in the Ixopo area, that a number of the associates of the chiefs had been given G3 weapons, and these were being used in the commission of crimes.  As far as I recall the police response was that they couldn't really do much about it.  And the police we were meeting with - from what I remember it at least one of the people was the district commissioner of Kokstad at that stage.  Ixopo fell under the Kokstad police district.  The meeting then adjourned, that meeting, second meeting, then adjourned shortly before lunch, and Reggie, Shaiks, myself, Mehmout Peer, who was from the ANC locally, and Mr Magubane, and there may have been a few other people, then went to lunch at the local hotel.  Over lunch Reggie told me that Chief Mkhize had spoken to him during the break and had told him that he didn't like peace meetings, that he was still filled with hatred, and that he now knew Reggie, or words to that effect.  Reggie interpreted those words as a threat.  Just after two we then proceeded from Ixopo back to 'Maritzburg along the main road.  We were seated as we had arrived at the meeting.  That was myself driving, Reggie in the front passenger seat, and Shaiks sitting in the back.  In the car we were talking and joking and sort of having quite a lively conversation.  We crossed over the Umkomaas River.  There's a big valley with the Umkomaas River at the bottom on the way between Ixopo and Richmond.  There's a steep drive down to the river and a steep drive up on the other side.  So we went through this valley, we crossed over the river, and were proceeding up the hill on the other side.  At one point there's a hairpin bend and a low concrete wall on the left-hand side of the road.  As we were driving past this area there was a very loud bang.  It sounded as though it was very close.  My first reaction was not knowing what was going on, but immediately after that there were a number of shots, or the sound of a number of shots that were being fired, and were obviously being fired at the car, and I then realised that we were being fired at.  While the shots were being fired, or throughout the whole period, I continued driving.  Because it was a steep part and a bending part in the road it was difficult to accelerate or move much faster.  Whilst the shots were being fired I noticed that Reggie was lying with his head on my leg.  At that point I assumed he was ducking for cover.  Shaiks also remarked that he had been hit, and that I must try and drive faster.  Eventually we got out from the shooting - it seemed to carry on for a long time - and at that point I noticed that Reggie had been shot in the top of his neck and appeared to be badly injured.  I was not aware at that stage that he was dead.  I then drove as fast as possible to Richmond, where I thought there was a hospital.  At some point on the road to Richmond the back windscreen of the car fell out because it had been hit by bullets.  When I got to Richmond I went to the Richmond Chest Hospital - I thought that was an ordinary hospital, but it was only a TB hospital - and tried to get assistance.  There were some difficulties in that there were only nurses there.  They didn't seem to be that willing to give assistance.  Eventually we got them to examine Reggie, but that took some time - they wanted to put on gloves and things - and they then said that he was dead.  They didn't want to move Shaiks.  Shaiks had received a wound in the back.  They didn't want to move him as they were worried about whether moving him might cause further problems.  I asked them to call a doctor and to call an ambulance.  No doctor arrived, but eventually an ambulance arrived, and the ambulance drivers just took Shaiks out of the car and put him in the ambulance.  There was then a further argument in that the ambulance was wanting to take Shaiks to Edendale Hospital, and Shaiks and I didn't feel that that was safe, we wanted him to go to Greys Hospital.  The ambulance drivers, however, refused to take Shaiks to Greys, and said if they took him there Greys would just refer him to Edendale.  So I got Shaiks to come back into my car.  Reggie was still in the car at that stage.  There was a local Comrade who I knew who was at the hospital, and he came with us and I then drove to 'Maritzburg, intending to go to Greys.  Driving into 'Maritzburg there were too many traffic lights on Alexander Road that I was going through, so I went to Medicity, which is the nearest hospital.  And at that point Shaiks got treatment, and I contacted the police and the local ANC office.  I believe that Reggie was killed with the first shot, the loud bang that had been fired, and I believe that he was killed instantly in that he didn't make any noise or any movement.

MR LYSTER: Sorry to interrupt, where was he when you drove into 'Maritzburg and into Medicity?  Where was his body?

WITNESS:  He was still in my car in the front where he'd been killed - in the front passenger seat.

MR LYSTER: Please continue.

WITNESS:   Ja, that's sort of basically it.  The car was hit a number of times.  Shaiks was hit with pellets, apparently from a shotgun, that had gone through the back of the car.  There was a baby seat which was in the boot of the car which absorbed some of those pellets, and that may have resulted in him having fewer injuries.  The pellets then went through the back of the - the back passenger seat.

MR LYSTER: And was his body taken out of the car at Medicity?

WITNESS:   That's right.

MR LYSTER: What was the response of the police in this matter?