Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-09

WITNESS:   No, they didn't initially say that.  They beat him up and took him out of the door.  They were assaulting him while they were taking him away.  He kept on falling and getting up and up the drive-way and into the street.  I went and peeped through the window in the dining room.  I saw that there were three private cars in the street.  There was no police van.  They went to the car that was in the middle.  I thought there was somebody inside, because they didn't get into the car.  They just stood outside the car and talked to somebody, and then they brought him back inside our house.  There were lots of them.  They were swearing at people who were going past and everybody who

KHOZA MGOJO: /was coming

KHOZA MGOJO: 11A/14 was coming to pass through, they were swearing at them and saying they must go back, they must go away.  They were swearing at the people a lot.  They brought him back inside the house and said, "Produce the gun".  Austin said, "I don't have a gun".  They assaulted him and said he must tell the truth, where is the gun, and the other ones came inside and started searching in our house.  They turned everything upside down, but they didn't find any gun they were looking for.  They were busy beating him up.  While things were still in that situation they took him outside and continued to beat him up, to the extent that the T-shirt he was wearing it was completely torn.  He only had a nick (?) on him.

KHOZA MGOJO: What was that they were beating him with?

WITNESS:   They were hitting him with their hands and also with a gun butt, the back of the gun.  While things were still like that, they came in.  They went to our grandmother's bedroom.  They had looked for everything and they couldn't find anything.  At my grandmother's bedroom I was with other people, who were with Siphiwe.  They had been looking in the bedroom.  Suddenly I heard Siphiwe said, "Are you shooting me, my boy?"  Austin said, "With what can I shoot you?"

KHOZA MGOJO: Please don't hurry.  Take your time, my daughter.

WITNESS:   I then heard - I heard a gun fire.  Austin said again, "Please don't shoot at me.  But how could I have shot you, because I don't have a gun?  You've been looking for the gun, but you can't find it".  After that I heard a second gun fire.  He said, "Please ...", Austin said, "Please, don't shoot at me.  Why are you shooting at me?", and the third time I heard this gun fire again.  I tried

KHOZA MGOJO: /to get out

KHOZA MGOJO: 11A/16 to get out of our bedroom and tried to go to my grandmother's bedroom.  The one who was in front of me stopped me.  He was standing in the passage.  He said I must sit down.

KHOZA MGOJO: As a person who grew up in Lamontville, among these policemen, did you recognise anyone?

WITNESS:   No.  No, there was no one I knew.  Even this Siphiwe I didn't know.  I didn't know him at that stage.  After that I heard somebody saying, he said, "This dog is going to die".  They got out.  Those who were in the bedroom with Austin came out.  Even the one who was in the passage got out.  When I went to Austin, the other one said, "I sit down.  You go and sit in the bedroom.  What kind of help do you think you can give to him?"  I cried, because I had seen Austin, that he was lying down on the side and he was bleeding.  They came back again from outside.  They said, "Where is the telephone?  We want to phone".  I allowed them to phone.  I opened the telephone, because I thought they were going to phone for assistance for Austin.  I didn't know what they wanted to phone about.  Whilst things were still like that they phoned in the bedroom where I was and that's where the telephone was.  I heard that they were phoning for some more police people.  These were the Umlazi Police.  They were from ZP.  What I heard Siphiwe said, he said, "Because we will not be able to, we are going to move out of here.  Please meet us at Easy Way, as you enter Lamont.  We'll wait for you there."  Indeed they left.  At the time when they left, they all left with all their cars.  I was there with Austin in the house.

KHOZA MGOJO: Before you go ahead, there's something that must be

KHOZA MGOJO: /cleared.  You

KHOZA MGOJO: 11A/20 cleared.  You said the police from ZG.  Could you explain, who are these police?   Who are these ZG Police you are talking about?  I will help you.  The police we have here in Natal, there's SAPS and KZP.  Which ones are these ZG?

WITNESS:   These are KZP.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

WITNESS:   When they left, I went into the room where Austin was.  There was no assistance I could give to him.  They left him there because they could realise he was dying.  The neighbours, when the police had left, the neighbours - there was a boy who came at the very minute just when they had left, with another man.  They came to try and help.  I told them they must please leave.  They shouldn't stay there because these policemen said they were coming back again.  If they come back in the house they could also harm them.  I said, please, they mustn't touch Austin because the police also said I mustn't touch Austin, I must leave him lying down there.  They left, as I said.  After a while these people came back.  These cops came back - the same policemen, with the police vans from Umlazi, with an SAP van.  When they got inside the house they came in and they were with other boys who also come from Lamont.  They said, "Pick up your friend.  Pick up your friend and go and throw him inside the van".  When I heard - apparently these boys had been picked up along the way just in the township, so that they must come and pick up their friend.  They told them when they were already inside the car.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know these boys?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do.  These boys, they picked up Austin and they were told to put him inside the van from Umlazi - from Umlazi Police.  Indeed, these boys did as they were instructed.  I was very, very

KHOZA MGOJO: /hurt when

KHOZA MGOJO: 11A/24 hurt when they took him to the ZP van, and the SAP were there.  I didn't know where they were taking him.  I wasn't sure if we would be able to get his corpse.

KHOZA MGOJO: Where did they take him to?

WITNESS:   I didn't know then where they were taking him.  They didn't say where they were taking him.  Even the SAP didn't explain to me.

KHOZA MGOJO: And how did you eventually get the corpse, the body?

WITNESS:   We found him at the Government Mortuary.

KHOZA MGOJO: [Break in recording]

WITNESS:   They took me to the police at Wentworth, where I made a statement.  They said this matter would be handled by the investigators from Wentworth.  I made a statement there and they brought me back home.  After that, as days went by, there were lots of telephone calls coming through.  When I remember one of the people who phoned was a woman.  She said she was phoning from Ulundi.  She works at the offices there.  I shouldn't try and go ahead with a case because I will be in trouble.  Going ahead with the case will not bring Austin back.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did she say the name, who she was?

WITNESS:   No, she didn't.  I asked her what her name was.  She didn't want to tell me who she was.  There were lots of telephone calls we received.  They were asking us what steps had been taken with regard to Austin's death.

INTERPRETER: Excuse the interpreters there is cutting off the sound system.

WITNESS:   At home, I was forced to stay at home because my Granny wasn't there at home some of the times, even after the burial of Austin.  My granny is a person who survives on selling second-hands.  I was also forced to go with my granny where she was selling.

INTERPRETER: Excuse the interpreters, there is a total cutting

INTERPRETER: /now - there

INTERPRETER: 11A/29 now - there is a total cutting of the sound.  Excuse the interpreters.