Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1991-09-08

MOHONAETSE STEPHEN MOTSAMAI: He said: "we are going to commit murder there".  Then he showed me the firearm made of a .38 firearm.  It's a small firearm, very small - it uses small bullets.  I looked at the firearm and the inscribed numbers have been  rubbed off, they have been rubbed off or rather scratched.  Then I gave the gun to him, I said: "let's go, we will hear once we get there",  we left together.  We got into the office, we found Colonel Coetzee and Lieutenant Shaw.
	On Colonel Coetzee's table were two files, mostly as he talked to us he referred to the files.  I asked myself whose files are these - I poked Sergeant Mamome and enquired from him: "whose files are these" and then he said that's China's file and the old man he stayed with - China's place at the corner in Melk Street.
	Colonel Coetzee started giving us the command, he said: "Boyzi, you must be very cautious, look after yourself because here now you're going to kill somebody or people you would find there but as far as you got the information, these are two people who stay there, the only people.  Mostly, the old man stays alone but there's this boy referred to as China who stays with the old man".  
	Now, I asked him how they got the information, they said they found the information through - he told us that this is a person who's 
been arranging for people to skip the country to join the MK wing, Umkhonto weSizwe.  He said that there is that old man together with China, they work together according to the information we received - that's what he stated.
	He asked Mamome to take out the firearm and he showed - he enquired about the bullets, there were six.  The gun was already loaded.  He said to us: "you can leave, go and do this task but before that, take here this money" -  it was R10,00, "you must buy petrol so that after finishing - after you have finished killing these people you will burn the house, set it alight" if possible.  Mamome took the R10,00, then we left the office.  
	We went to the next level of the building.  He timeously came to me - he asked me: "are you prepared"? and then I said to him: "do I have a choice, we are security police and we have been given an order".  	The afternoon came and they'd already clocked off duty - he came to me driving in a car.  I have already bought the petrol, it was in a container.  
	We left that place where I stayed.  He was the one driving the car.  We drove down Mosheshwe Street until we reached Cooper Avenue at the corner, we turned to the left.  That road led to 4 and 6 section of the location.  At the end of Cooper Avenue, he turned left, he parked the car along the road.  
	We got off - I had the petrol and I put it down and then I started putting on hand gloves and I pulled down my face the balaclava that Sergeant Mamome brought along.  He also did the same, he even used hand gloves - he put hand gloves.  We left the car there.  We went down the street on foot, we went up that Melk Street until we reached - we were leading to the corner.  
	We used the small gate at that house, the two of us. We came to the door at the back of that house, that's the door we came - we used.  I knocked, the old man responded, he enquired: "who is it"?  I spoke in a low tone so that he could not identify us - he opened the door.  As he opened the door Sergeant Mamome approached him.  As he did that he said I must take out the gun.  He had the gun in his left ha - left side pocket, I pulled the gun so that  - we knew that two people were staying in this house.  If it happened that there'd be the third person in the house, I should shoot that person.
	He pulled the old man but he grabbed the door and then he started screaming.  He was holding the door with his right hand.  He was being pulled by his left hand.  He gripped the door and he - the door hit him on his chest.   Now he just had one choice to get with the old man in the house and then he grabbed the old man on the neck.  He tried to pull himself loose but however failed to pull himself loose.
	I entered the house - I opened the door, it was dark inside.  You 
- a person would not leave but they would see that there's something happening there and would keep quite as a result.  I entered the house after having opened the door.  I saw the old man's head - I shot him on his head, on his left side of the head and then he let him fell just next to the door, not very far from the door.
	We went into the house and there weren't any people inside, he was the only one in the house.  The petrol I referred to was at the door.  I went outside to fetch the petrol, then I started sprinkling petrol all over the house and even on his body.  I sprinkled his body with petrol, then I went outside.   
	Mamome, Sergeant Mamome took out matches and he set the corpse alight.  After setting the corpse alight, we left but we didn't leave through the gate.  At the time we were setting the corpse alight, the house at the corner along Cooper Avenue - I saw somebody standing there.  I don't know that person.  He was observing this house where we were and when he once saw me, he disappeared - that person disappeared.  Probably that person could see something bad was happening there.
	The house caught fire.  We jumped the fence and went back to the car.  We got into the car, he drove the car through 4 and 6 section of the location.  Now we were going through Bato location.  He used the tarred road down there in Bato location and he took me home.  He 
had the gun with him at that time.  I gave the gun back to him.
	I got home - I slept.  We went to work in the morning - we were all in the parade, myself, Mamome, Miningwa - at the parade and Mtyala - M-t-y-a-l-a.  We were all reported for duty then we reported about the union activities, student activities, COSAS, AZAZCO, AZAZIM.  They reported about churches - what is the situation at different churches.
	After they have completed reporting, they left.  We were left behind, myself and Sergeant Mamome because as we entered Colonel Shaw - Lieutenant Shaw and Major Coetzee enquired from us whether we completed the operation.  Nobody knew that we had killed or murdered somebody.  It was only Coetzee and Lieutenant Shaw and myself and Mamome who knew what happened, that there's somebody who died, who has been killed.
	We agreed or rather confirmed that we did take out the task.  Mamome was left behind - we went for tea.  Whilst having tea, he came.  I could tell from his expression that he was a bit sad.  I asked myself now what error had we done because we took out the order as it was given to us.  He said to me, Major Coetzee and Lieutenant Shaw wants to see you.
	I went to them.  As I entered their office, the other one sat on the left hand side and Colonel Coetzee stayed across the - Major 
Coetzee stayed across the hall there.  Colonel Coetzee started questioning me - why ...[inaudible] we didn't complete the task in full, "you were supposed to have burnt the whole house".  Now I found myself in difficulty.  We were given an order and now we are told that we didn't complete the task, why is it like this?
	They kept quiet, they stared at each other.  I'm referring here to Shaw and Coetzee.  I could tell that they're discussing something, then Shaw said: "it's okay my boy, you can go and drink - you can go and have coffee - tea.  I went upstairs to have tea.  After a few hours, it can be one or two, I'm not sure - right in that office, Mamome came back.  He told me he's from Bato location.  He wanted to find out if the detectives did find out who committed that arson and murder.  He told me that the person who's handling the case is Sergeant Ramara.
	He asked him in a different manner just to find out if he knew we were there or who committed that act.  I don't know whether he was lying to me or whether he asked Ramara directly.  He said that Ramara told him that people who were at the scene, they thought it was China who killed this old man.  I'm referring here to the person who was staying with this old man.  Until today, the case has never been dealt with.  It is now that I'm telling the whole story about this case.