Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-12

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: If I recall well I think the reason - firstly, I would say the manner in which the management hired the workers.  Secondly, because we didn't see eye to eye with the Inkatha members.  For instance, if we decide to engage in a strike action we wanted the management to address our grievances.  For instance if we say we want R30,00 extra we would sent by the workers to negotiate with the management and if the management do not want to comply the next best thing for us to do is to go on a strike or on a go-slow until such time that the management complied with our request or our demand.
	Now we noticed that there were other groups or members who were not joining us in the struggle or in the strike when we demanded more wages, instead the Inkatha members were alienating themselves from us and working hand-in-hand with the management but when we get a raise they would also get a raise.
	The other reason was that when COSATU announced that there should be a stay-away, go-slow or a strike for one day, two days or whatever number of days where we would not go to work then we would do that accordingly and we would inform other workers that we are engaging in a strike action, go-slow or a boycott and thereafter we would go back to work and discover that the Inkatha members were continuing work.  
	When we go to check their clock cards as shop stewards we realised that they had been working all along and they had been working whilst we were on strike.  They would tell us that they have come to work and they don't care for the union because the union is disguising itself, it was actually the ANC that was operating within the factory.
	I think the other reason was the hiring system at the factory.  I think we were about 900, there were temporary workers who could have been 20, 30 or 40, to come and help us when there was a lot of work to be done and the system that was used was that a white person who was being helped by Amos who was our chairman, would hire these people but we were not aware that these were Inkatha members and after the period or the temporary period has come to an end the other ones had to leave, others would get permanent employment.  They had to choose from the 20 and get the 10 that was going to get permanent employment.
	We would be told at a later stage because Amos would be involved in the selection of the permanent workers and the other ones who had to leave.  After the other ones had left or the other group, we would realise that the people who had left were members of the ANC and the ones who had got permanent employment were members of Inkatha.  That's one of the reasons that angered members of the ANC and FAWU, the selection process with regard to getting permanent employment.  That is when the people got angry because the rumour circulated that the selection process was unfair, it was favouring Inkatha members.  I think these are the three basic reasons that I've already elaborated on, that caused this fight.

ADV GCABASHE: I'm sorry, can I just ask?  Which Amos, you talk of Amos, which Amos?

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: It's Amos Makjanya.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you.  I understood you saying the management was sort of - these are not your words, were biased in favour of Inkatha.  You were saying they were even paid when they were absent from duty.  Were your members, in other words members of FAWU, not paid when they were absent from duty?

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: No, we would not be paid.  There was a police of no work no pay.  Even when we go on a tools-down strike we would not be paid, even when we inside the factory itself.  We would not be paid because they would say no work no pay, but the Inkatha members were getting paid whether they were at work or not.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Gcabashe?

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you, Chair.
	You mentioned earlier in your testimony that you reported the attacks on the workers to management, you also reported to FAWU and the ANC.  The report to management, what was the solution suggested by management?  Did they do anything at all to protect the workers?

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: When we reported to the management they said there was absolutely nothing they could do because whatever was taking place took place beyond the gates of the factory, so whatever happened outside the gates had to be dealt with by the police.  He said to us he was dealing with fights or anything that broke inside the factory itself but not beyond that.  The only day that he actually helped us was when we were out on lunch we had gone outside to buy some food and as we were still buying food we got shot at and some ran into the factory.
	There's a certain guy by the name Biza who was shot and he fell just next to the gate.  That is the day that we said that we were going to sleep inside the factory.  That day he phoned the buses to pick us from the factory to our respective places.  That is the only day that he helped us with regard to being attacked because that was an indiscriminate attack on everybody who worked at the factory.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  A different question, you say you collected money from the workers to buy these arms, yes?

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: That is correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Was it from all of the workers or most of the workers or just very few people?

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: As I've already said that we were about 900, that is women as well as men, we were asking for donations but people were quite willing to donate because this was regarded to be for a good cause of protecting ourselves so people donated freely and wholeheartedly.
	If I remember quite well I think it was R3 058,00 that was collected and which was deposited into a bank account and withdrawn as the need arose.

ADV GCABASHE: And then Zwane, you attacked Ngcobo, you had a fight with Ngcobo, a fight with Shandu and Zwane, just to summarise.  Where was Zwane when the whole incident started, when you started fighting with Ngcobo then Shandu?  I wasn't too sure as to where he came in.

ZANDISILE PATRICK KONDILE: We have different working stations, some would be working where I am and others would be a distance a little bit further.  When the fighting broke I think Zwane was a distance from the point where I was attacking Shandu and Ngcobo.  At that stage when I had finished dealing with Shandu and Ngcobo I saw Zwane dashing off.  I think he was just nearby and that is when I started chasing him until the policeman came to help.
	I think when I started attacking Shandu and Ngcobo probably he saw when I started attacking and Zwane did not come to help.  When he realised that I was attacking the two he tried to run for his life.  That is when I started chasing him.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  No further questions, Chair, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr van den Berg, any re-examination?

MR VAN DEN BERG: No, Mr Chairperson, I have none.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DEN BERG

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is that the evidence of Mr Kondile?

MR VAN DEN BERG: That's the evidence of Mr Kondile.  I wanted to call an additional witness, a Mr Graham Simpson who is present but I haven't had an opportunity just to discuss the matter with him, so I'd ask for a short recess, perhaps five or ten minutes if that would be in order.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, we'll adjourn for a short while and you will advise us once you're ready to call Mr Simpson.

MR VAN DEN BERG: I will do so, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We adjourn.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van den Berg, are you ready to proceed?

MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I'm indebted to you and to your Committee Members for the indulgence.  May I call Graham Simpson.  He is present and he's seated on my left.

GRAHAM SIMPSON: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr van den Berg, over to you.