Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] matter of Mr Absalom, Mr Dladla is it, and Mr Ndlovu.
	Mr Alberts, you are appearing for both of these applicants?

MR ALBERTS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And Mr Brink, you are leader of evidence?

MR BRINK: Yes Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are we ready to commence?

MR BRINK: Yes we are. I think Mr Wills is here to represent various next-of-kin.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have a name of the list of the people that you represent?

MR WILLS: I do Mr Chairperson.  If you could just bear with me?  I represent the following people: Welcome Themba Ngoso Mkhize, David Lembeti, Nbongeni Nxobo, Theresa Theni Nxabi, Elbertina Bongikile Chezi, Makwapeli Dlamini, Pindile Zuma, Mita Mkhize, Janet Ndlovu, Florena Dlamini, Sibongili Trivina Ndlovu, Queen Khanyezi, Sipho Ernest Khoneni and Ntongkozizi Xulu, Titus ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell that surname?  Xulu?

MR WILLS: X-U-L-U Mr Chairman.  Titus Dlamini, A S Dlamini and Dumisani Johannes Sithole.

CHAIRPERSON: These are people who are either parents of those that died or their next-of-kin or those who have suffered injuries themselves?

MR WILLS: That is correct in every instance Mr Chairperson.

MR ALBERTS: I then call the applicant Mr Dladla, the first applicant.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: What are your full names?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Mabhungu Absalom Dladla.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please proceed.

MR ALBERTS: You are currently serving a life sentence for a murder of ten people and attempted murder of two others on the 5th of March 1993, is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Was it the sentence or the commission of the offence?

MR ALBERTS: The offence was committed the 5th of March 1993.
	Mr Dladla you must please speak up, it is difficult to hear you.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I do not understand what you mean by life sentence.   No, I was sentenced to death, not a life sentence.

MR ALBERTS: Where did you grow up?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I grew up in Camperdown.  In Table Mountain.

MR ALBERTS: And where is that?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Near Pietermaritzburg.

MR ALBERTS: That is near Pietermaritzburg?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Ja.

MR ALBERTS: Did you grow up in a western community or were you brought up in a more traditional Zulu way?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It is traditional.

MR ALBERTS: Did you comply with the Zulu tradition, for example slaughtering animals?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: And you were also a member of the IFP, is that correct?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: How did you come to join the IFP?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: My parents were IFP members and I started liking it because my parents were supporters of it.  I became one of its members and I got a membership card.

MR ALBERTS: Did you have any specific authority in the IFP for example a chairman of something?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: No, I was just an ordinary member.

MR ALBERTS: The incident that took place on the 5th of March 1993 for which you are applying for amnesty, how did it come about that you decided to commit this offence?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: On 2 March 1993, the IFP children on their way to school, in a van, were murdered.  This happened in Maqongqo.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know by whom?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, I know one person who was mentioned by the survivors.  He is Qeda Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Spell the first name of that man, Nxteta Zulu?

INTERPRETER: Qeda Zulu.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR ALBERTS: And when you decided to commit this act was there somebody else with you? Did you discuss this matter?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, there were other people.

MR ALBERTS: Who was with you?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Nkanyiso Wilfred Ndlovu and Makhekhe chistopher Zondi.

MR ALBERTS: Mr Ndlovu is the second applicant here with you today, who was also convicted with you?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Where did this meeting take place?

CHAIRPERSON: Let's just before you go to that. You see Mr Alberts he's talked about school children being killed. You haven't asked him where, what time, when, shouldn't that be cleared up?

MR ALBERTS: Yes. The school children who were killed do you remember their names?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes, I remember their names.  I knew Wa Khumalo, a certain Mkhize, a Gwala girl.  please give me a chance to remember some of them.

CHAIRPERSON: In the meanwhile can you tell us where were these children killed?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: They were killed in Table Mountain area, at Mboyi.

MR ALBERTS: Do you know how this incident took place? What happened during this incident when the children were killed?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: No.  I was not there.  I was at home and heard gun shots.  i then got into the army car that was proceeding there, where the kids were injured.  When we arrived there ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: He wasn't there.

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I was there when they were killed.

CHAIRPERSON: What did you see there?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I found the kids there.  Some of them were already dead and some were injured but could still talk.

MR ALBERTS: And this person that the people told you was involved, who was he?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: He was Qeda Zulu.  He was also a resident of Camperdown.  My neighbour.  Thereafter, he fled the area and went to stay in Nkanyezini.

MR ALBERTS: Yes who is he?  Why would he have been involved in the killing of these children?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: ...[no English translation]

CHAIRPERSON: Had they tell you what had happened?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I asked the children what had happened and they said they had been shot.  They said Qeda was amongst those people who shot them.

MR ALBERTS: Why would this Mr Zulu have been involved in the attack on the children?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: He is an ANC member.  The parents of the children who were attacked were IFP members.  Perhaps Qeda hated their parents and that is why he attacked these children.

CHAIRPERSON: They say it could be, is that what you are saying?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: I think he killed them because they were staying in the IFP area and their parents were IFP supporters.

MR ALBERTS: What was the situation in the Tableview area at that time, was it peaceful?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: There was violence.

MR ALBERTS: What resulted in the violence?  What was the reason for the violence?

CHAIRPERSON: What was the cause?

MR ALBERTS: The cause for the violence?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: It was between the IFP and the ANC supporters.

MR ALBERTS: Can you tell us what caused the violence between the IFP and the ANC?  What caused them to fight against each other?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: The ANC supporters were attacking us.

MR ALBERTS: Okay, after the incident of the children being killed you had a meeting with the other two people you mentioned, what was decided or discussed at that meeting?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: After the attack on the children, I talked to Makhekhe and told him that we had to avenge this.  I thought a revenge was necessary this was not the first time that the ANC supporters had attacked us.

MR ALBERTS: Where was this discussion held?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We were near Mkhize's house where the children were killed.  I was there to offer support as a youngster, because the adults were mourning.  Sepiwe was also there.  I then discussed with him that we had to avenge, and he agreed.

MR ALBERTS: What did you then decide to do?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: We discussed that our target should be Nofu's kombi that was driven by Qeda Zuma.  We chose this kombi because it is the one that was used by ANC supporters to attack IFP supporters.

MR ALBERTS: Was it only you and Makhekhe at that time?

MABHUNGU ABSALOM DLADLA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: Okay what did you do to implement your plan?