Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

JERRY RICHARDSON: When Moodley came in 1995, we reached an agreement that he would give me an amount of R10 000-00 for me to point out where Kuki's body was dumped.  He had R10 000-00 with him, and we left.  I don't know whether we started at the Orlando police station.
 We went in a kombi, I got off and I told him that the school children are going to disturb us.  I wasn't going to be able to point this area out because that was an area where school children walked up and down, to and from school.  And really when I got out of the car, a school kid greeted me and this kid followed me and even touched me.
 She even asked for money which she was offered by Moodley.  I pointed the place out and they said they wanted to take a photo of me whilst I did the pointing out.
 These are terrible things that I did.  I told Moodley that he had made a mistake by taking me to that area during a school break.

MR RICHARD: Thank you.  We must turn to the next part of the subpoena and that is the kidnapping and murder of the five individuals, including Stompie Seipei.
 Now, there when did you first meet Xoliswa Falati?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I didn't care much about Falati, I used to see her coming to Mrs Mandela's offices and I think she was working hand in hand with Mrs Mandela.
 She would come and go.  She also had her two kids with her, but I don't remember which year was it that I first saw her.

MR RICHARD: Now, certain events happened some time around the 27th of December.  Is it not correct that on that day Xoliswa Falati came to the house in Diepkloof?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Which year was that?

MR RICHARD: 1988, 27th December, some time around there?

JERRY RICHARDSON: That is correct

MR RICHARD: And what did Ms Falati say, she had various complaints?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, that is true.  She had a series of complaints.

MR RICHARD: What were they, could you please tell the Commission what were Ms Falati's complaints?

JERRY RICHARDSON: She was seen by Mrs Mandela when she came, I was at the back room at the time.  I think she spoke to Mrs Mandela with regard to her complaints.  She was with four other people, Mompumalelo, her son, Katiza, she took them into the house, but I was told at a later stage by Extra Strong, that name was given to him by Mommy, that he was extra strong.
 Falati got into the house and Extra Strong came to tell me.  I wasn't there at the time when they carried out the conversation but they came to me whilst I was sitting with Sledge.  We were playing some music.

MR RICHARD: Right, now as a result of those conversations, you received certain instructions,  what were those instructions?  Weren't they that you and John Morgan should go and do something?

JERRY RICHARDSON: I think I should relate the story as full as possible, but due to time constraints I think I will be very brief.  We were given instructions that we should take the kombi.  Morgan was supposed to drive and the yard was full of youths.  I did not know who to select at that stage and they said that there was a problem, that we needed to sort out.
 I told Morgan that we should take the bigger bus that came from Durban.  So we took the bigger bus.

MR RICHARD: Where were you going to go in the bigger bus?

JERRY RICHARDSON: We were going to drop another group next to Muzimuhle and I would select a few members of the Club to go with.

MR RICHARD: And what were you going to do and why were you going to do it?

JERRY RICHARDSON: We were going to proceed to the church, greet with respect, introduce ourselves and ask to take the children who had a problem, that had earlier been reported.  We parked the bus a bit further down because Morgan didn't know as to where we were going.
 We were just singing our slogans and our freedom songs, so we left Morgan in the bus and proceeded into the church.  We said Falati should lead the way because she is the one who brought the complaint.  We followed Falati in.  Sledge also went in.
 They were playing cards inside and he stood guard so that they shouldn't escape.  Falati addressed them and called them by their names.  She started with Stompie and the others followed.  I had about four youths standing in front of me.
 At that time Sledge had started assaulting the  youths.  I admonished him to stop.   The poor children looked very terrified.  I told them to be free, because they were with Jerry Richardson, the coach of the Mandela Football Club.  They were quite relaxed to know me.
 We took them with.  We did not force any of the youths to come with us.  All went out voluntarily towards the bus.  We drove.

MR RICHARD: What were the complaints that made you go and fetch them, please tell us?  Something to do with Paul Verryn.  I can't ask leading questions.

JERRY RICHARDSON: According to Falati, that there was a white male by the name of Paul Verryn who was abusing the youths.  He was sodomising them.

MR RICHARD: Right, now you brought these young men and one person back to the residence and what happened there.  Was there a conversation between them and Mrs Mandela?

JERRY RICHARDSON: We drove the bus towards Diepkloof.  We were singing freedom songs and Xoliswa Falati was leading us in those songs and we were dancing and ululating.
 We were all free and happy inside the bus.  Morgan parked the bus.  We went into the yard, we proceeded to my room because they were not supposed to go into the main house which we called Parliament.
 We were busy singing our freedom songs, we went into the house, we sat.  We called Mommy, I am the one who fetched Mommy and I brought her.  I told her that we had brought the four youths.  Mommy was quite happy.
 When we got into my room, there were no chairs.  I sent one of them to go and fetch a chair and I wanted another chair to be brought in.  I told Morgan to stand up and offer the chair to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela, but he refused.
 One of the youths brought a chair, and I offered Mommy the chair.  She sat down and all of us sat down as we are sitting right now.

MR RICHARD: And then you were told to take one of them.  Who were you told to take?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Mommy introduced herself to the youths.  Actually it was Falati who introduced Mommy to the children and Kenny was the eldest.  I was instructed to take Kenny, Sledge took Stompie.  Each and every one of us had a youth with him.
 I went into the jacuzzi, but there wasn't any water in the jacuzzi.  I sat with Kenny and asked him as to what was happening at the manse.  Kenny related the story to me that Paul Verryn was sodomising them.   He would caress them and he wanted to sleep with them.
 I hit him with an open hand.  Because I usually put on rings on my fingers, he got a bruise on his eye and I said I was going to tell Mommy whatever he had told me.  I took him with to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela and related the story that they were being sodomised by Paul Verryn.
 Mommy sat him down and they others were brought in, but the reports that they gave were not reconcilable.  They gave different statements and conflicting reports as to what was happening.
 And comrade Falati said he had some little things with him which he could not account for.  He could not tell them as to where he got them from.  He had a watch ... (intervention)

MR RICHARD: Who is he?  Who is this person that Falati is talking about at the moment, Ms Falati?

JERRY RICHARDSON: It was Stompie who had some articles in his pocket.  He got a watch, a small wrist watch, a battery operated wrist watch.  I took this watch from him.

CHAIRPERSON: I just wondered how are we getting?

MR RICHARD: We are a long way through it, but it is still a long way to go.  Is it not correct that Sledge had Stompie with him and then the accusation was that Stompie, because of these things, was an informer?  Is that not correct?

JERRY RICHARDSON: Yes, I think it is so.