Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-08

WITNESS:   Seeing that the Truth Commission is here I want the case to be re-opened.  Justice has to be done.  That's what we want.  One other thing.  As we are speaking the Commission and the Government say they are healing the nation, but something puzzles me.  There were people in those days who were arrested just for selling liquor.  A person would be arrested and would be sent to gaol.   But something surprising, a person killing another person would be just left free.  To make it a point that such things do not happen again those people have to be punished.  One thing that I am requesting from the Commission when investigating, the Judge or the Magistrate who was in charge of the case, I don't know was he mad or was he drunk, because he couldn't find anybody to be blamed.  I think he was inefficient.  If he is still working at present he has to come before the Commission, and he should be asked does he know the difference between a good and a bad thing.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: The last question.  We have heard that many times when people had been killed by the police while busy preparing for the funeral there would be harassment from the police.  Did you get anything?

WITNESS:   No, I don't want to lie.  The police never came to our house, but there was a little -  one of the A Team wanted to pass by the house and the Comrades attacked him.  He ran away.  The police came, but they never did anything wrong, no harassment of any sort.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: We understand that you want the case to be re-opened.  I am now asking this.  Is there anything that you would like the Commission to assist you with?

WITNESS:   No, I don't want - I don't choose anything, but it will depend on the Commission how to help my family.  But what I want to happen is the Commission should help us to re-open the case, and if those people are found guilty they should be charged and sentenced.  And that will give us an indication - or it will lead us to reconciling.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Was Lefu your brother or was he just younger than you?

WITNESS:   He was my brother.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: We thank you very much.  We would see if there are any Commissioners who have questions.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much for your very clear description of what was very tragic.  You must have been very young when your brother was killed.  Can you tell us how old you were?

WITNESS:   Okay, I am 28 years old now, so you can just take the ... (incomplete)

DR BORAINE: Ja, we will get a computer and work it out.  I want you to tell me just a little bit more.  Parys in the 1980s was, like many other parts of the country, very, very stormy, but you and others who have appeared before us, and who will appear before us later today, talk a great deal about the A Team.  Please tell us was this a branch of the police, was it people outside of the police, was it a combination?  Who was the A Team?

WITNESS:   Okay.

DR BORAINE: I am sorry, do you want me to repeat the question?

WITNESS:   No, I have hear the question.  I will now speak in Sotho.  This was an organisation supported by the police.  Why am I saying this?  It's because everything that they reported to the police would be taken into consideration.  If they were attacked at their houses the police would go and protect them.  This means they were part of the police.  It was a gang supported by the police, because some of them are now policemen.

DR BORAINE: (Inaudible) ... just to help us get the fullest information so that we can try and help you.  You say that when "they" were attacked, or "they" needed help, they would go to the police and the police would - now, who's "they"?  I mean is it another organisation?  Is it a group of young people?  Who are these people who combined with the police?

WITNESS:   Most of them were elderly people.  Even if there were youths, but it was mainly elderly people.  The one who chopped my brother's neck was a very, very elderly person.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

DR BORAINE: Thanks, Chairman.  My question in fact related more exactly to the question of the composition of the A Team.  From what I hear you say you're saying they weren't police.  Do you think - I mean were they quite specifically set up as a force for political ends?

WITNESS:  Yes, it was a group supported by the police, and it was a group formed by the police.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you very much and we understand your request.  We are not saying we will do as you have requested, but we will try, because we have to do something about the stories that we hear from the witnesses here.  Thank you very much.  Pass our regards to your mother.  We wish her good luck and we wish her well.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: (Incomplete) ... and I'll ask him please to come to the witness stand.  (Pause)  Could I ask the witness please to put on the earphones so we can check and make sure that he can hear?  Can I check that now?  Can you hear my voice and the translation?  Okay, well then you can relax.  That's better.  You're very welcome.  Thank you very much for coming.  You have been listening, so you know how we operate and how we do things.  Your story is about yourself, but it's also about assault and murder committed, and we have just listened to the story of Lefu Raseko, and you knew him, or you knew of him.  You knew about the A Team, you're from Parys.  You have a grim story to tell.  Before you do that would you please stand to take the oath?

DAVID MHLAPO: (Sworn, States)

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.  Please be seated.  David, Mrs Gcabashe is going to lead you as you tell your story, so I am going to hand over to her now.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just announce that I gather there's a technical problem.  There is not going to be a Zulu translation until after Mr Mhlapo.  So don't break the machines there because they don't produce Zulu, and you think - they can't produce the Zulu yet, but after Mr Mhlapo, who is going to be speaking in Sesotho - I am sorry about that.  I do apologise.

MRS GCABASHE: Good day, Mr David.  I know even if you are Mhlapo you are a Free Stater, you speak Sesotho.  Now, we will communicate in Sesotho.  We have already heard that you are representing yourself, and the Vice-Chairman has already indicated that your case is similar to the one who have just give evidence.  But before telling us your story just tell us about your family and about yourself, who you are and how are you?

WITNESS:   I am Selelo Mhlapo.  My father is from the Mathuli family.  He is Mathuli, but I was born in the Mhlapo family.  I grew up in this Mhlapo family.  Until I joined the UDF organisation I was in schooling in Mmabatho.  That was from 1984.  While in the UDF my other sister was in love with one of the attackers, one member from the A Team.  I didn't want to join this organisation.  We came from different families, but she was my sister.

MRS GCABASHE: You said you were schooling.  When did you leave schooling and how old were you?

WITNESS:   You mean when I left school?  I left school while I was 16 years.  I was arrested under the state of emergency.

MRS GCABASHE: Okay, you can carry on.

WITNESS:   After being released I left schooling because of the positions that I held at school.  I met Lefu Raseko.

MRS GCABASHE: In your statement you said the A Team tortured you.