Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-27

CHAIRPERSON: We are going to call upon Amanda Eunice Magwaca together with Wonga Billie, they should come to the stand please.
 Good afternoon to you Mrs Magwaca and to you Mr Billie.  I'll ask Reverend Xundu to swear you in so that you can start with your statement.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairperson.  I welcome you  before I request you to take the oath, thank you for your contribution and the contribution of your children who fell in the struggle for liberation and whose death were not in vain.  Can you stand up please.

AMANDA EUNICE MAGWACA WONGA BILLIE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: I'll hand over to you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, thank you Reverend Xundu.  It is usually our procedure, we will request Ntsiki Sandi to help you and guide you in your statement.

MR SANDI: Mrs Magwaca, your statement is about your husband Vukile Magwaca, he was a member of the street committee at Kwazakele township in 1986.

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, he was a member of the area street committee.

MR SANDI: Was there a state of emergency at that time?

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, yes, yes, there was.

MR SANDI: You said in your statement on the 19th of June in
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1986 Security Police came, three Security Policemen and one Black Policeman came to your house, who was there when they came?

MRS MAGWACA: The first thing, I just want to apologise because some of the things I haven't included in that statement, they are just coming to mind now.  On the evening of Wednesday, at one o'clock my husband was not sleeping at the house because he was afraid of being arrest.
 On that particular night he was at home and then at one o'clock in the morning we heard a car stopping outside and we woke up.  He went to the window and peeped and I also peeped.
 Then he asked whose car is this and then I said I don't know because it is a state of emergency, so we just ignored it, but the car didn't stop directly in front of our gate, diagonally opposite and then we went to sleep again and then on Thursday, the following morning and then about at the same time on Thursday now, and I was alone on that particular night, I heard a kombi stopping outside and then I looked through the window and found that it was the same kombi.
 And I couldn't sleep, I was scared, I was just laying on my bed because my kids were still very small, my three kids were still very small.  The older one was not at home, he was serving a prison sentence in Mntansane and I was scared and sleepless.
 About 15 minutes later after hearing this I heard a knock on my door and the doors were being banged, kicked and the windows and then my light was not off, so I braised it and then the Boers were shouting at me to open and then I went to open and then my third child and the two younger
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ones and a friend of his from the street, were sleeping in the other room and these police came in together with this Black policeman.
 And when they came in this first Boer asked where is Lamla, where is Popi and we want Lamla, we want Popi and Lamla because your child is very good at making petrol bombs.
 I said I didn't know where they were, because they were not at home.  And the Black policeman said how could I say I didn't know, I said no, they don't tell me when they go, they never tell me when they go.
 And then they pushed me around and pushed me and I would fall and get up and then they would ask me to dress up.  They said I will have to tell them where my husband was, I told them I didn't know.  And then they said Lamla is a member of a political organisation as a comrade, I must tell them.
 They were turning everything upside down and took away our photo's next to the phone and some of them, I still had a phone, which was also taken away at that same time.  They took some photographs and they were searching and they took an album.  Every picture of my husband was taken away and they asked me to dress.
 I didn't want to put on my clothes, but I was getting cold and my body was aching because they were throwing me down.

MR SANDI: And eventually did they take you?

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, they did take me.  They forced me to put on my clothes because of this policeman and these White ones.  This policeman dragged me forcefully and then I put on my clothes.  The reason I didn't want to leave is that I
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was worried about the kids, the young kids that I had to leave behind.

MR SANDI: So where did they take you to?

MRS MAGWACA: They took me in their vehicle, in the van which I found parked outside when I got out.  I got into this van, there was a gentleman, one gentleman who said to me there were other cars lining the street, he said, this man said, you know they have been wanting to get you because they want this Popi and Lamla so we went and a number of people were taken, collected and they were going up and down with me.
 They were taking people in the community, in the street until they filled the van.  Then they came back to our street and then they took another lady and the van was full and then it went to drop its passengers at Algoa.

MR SANDI: Did they return you to your place?

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, in the morning, in the morning, towards six o'clock, between five and six and then they stopped at this lady in front of us and then they stopped closer to my house in the street.

MR SANDI: Who did you find at home when you returned?

MRS MAGWACA: It is the young kids that I left behind that I found.  When I entered the gate I met my husband at the gate and he asked me where I was from.  I said I have been taken away by the Boers and they are looking for you and Lamla and I didn't sleep as you can see.

MR SANDI: Who was he with at the time you met him at the gate?

MRS MAGWACA: He was by himself.  We met at the gate, on the lawn there, he was alone, he was just coming.

MR SANDI: Didn't you say there were four people who were
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with him, Temakozi and Tando Mbambani?

MRS MAGWACA: No, they had not yet arrived at the time.  It is just my husband and I and then we entered and then we sat and I had a neighbour with whom I was going to work, another lady.  Whilst we were inside the house, these four comrades came in and they talked and chatted with my husband and I was saying to my husband he should go and come back later to make porridge for himself, but they delayed.
 They continued with their conversation and then at about quarter to seven I heard a knock at the front door, then we looked at one another and I went to open.
 As I opened these Boers came in together with this Black policeman who was in uniform.

MR SANDI: Who was this Black policeman?

MRS MAGWACA: I don't know sir.  I really don't know, but the comrades here they know him.  They know the policeman who arrested.

MR SANDI: Were they all taken together with Mr Billie, next to you?

MRS MAGWACA: Yes, that is so.

MR SANDI: Did you go to a lawyer for assistance or advice about the arrest of your husband?

MRS MAGWACA: I went to Mr Ganuno to tell him about what happened to my husband and he did enter into some correspondence with the police and the Black Sash.  They were was a response to the fact that my husband ran away, he escaped.

MR SANDI: Did you see him after being arrested, your husband?

MRS MAGWACA: No, I didn't, no I didn't see him after he was arrested.  We tried, but all in vain and the lawyers
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tried to write letters, but they were told that he skipped the country.  His younger brother tried also, but now and again he would report to me where he went to search and it was not successful anywhere.

MR SANDI: And Mr Wonga Billie next to you, was he one of those who were arrested with your husband?  Do you think his statement we will touch on that?