Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1996-07-04

MR DLAMINI: admitted, even if I didn't know. They told me that they didn'tactually want me, they wanted six people. They wanted Mr Malema, Mr Rabushaba,Mr Libenya. There were five actually. They said if I could get all those peoplethey'll leave me. I said, "Oh, you're hitting me, you're assaulting me becauseyou want other people." It's only then that they charged me. I don't know whatthey were charging me for. In 1971 they told me that I am supposed to appearin court. When I got there I got all papers which were alleging that I was aPAC member, I was trying to overthrow the Government. When we got to court thecourt was held in Bloemfontein. Accused No 1 was John Coetzee, No 2 was Lithiyane,No 3 was Mr Mekwe, No 4 was Rabushaba, No 5 was Libenya, 6 Malema. The threeof us got four years, the other five got five years. On the 2nd of December- on the second week they told us we should prepare ourselves, we were goingto Pretoria. We saw a Land Rover coming. There was a man who was speaking Afrikaans.I thought it was a white man, but it wasn't. I saw this car proceeding upwards.We went in this Land Rover, we went past Bloemfontein to Beaufort West. Whenwe got there the gentleman who was inside told me that we were proceeding forRobben Island, but he was afraid to speak. When we got to Cape Town, in NewlandPrison, at 6 o'clock I said, "I am very young. Where are you taking meto?" We got so many people there. We looked at the blackboard and it was written1 016. I was surprised that I could be taken as Robben Island as young as Iwas. I regarded that as a misdemeanour, not a serious offence, so I was surprisedwhy they were taking me to the Robben Island. I met Steve Tshwete and all theother people who were there. These old men told me, "My child, we can see thatyou don't know anything about politics." I admitted that I didn't know anythingabout politics. I said to them, "No, I don't know what I have been arrestedfor, so I just want to sit and think." They said to me I must join the organisationsbecause when I go outside I will be harassed by the police. I ended up joiningthe organisations. Then they told me that I was going to do one year in RobbenIsland. When I went out I was taken to Pretoria - Port Elizabeth. I stayed forquite a few weeks. They took me to East London Juvenile Prison. I stayed fora few months. They took me to Welkom. They took me to Ligwa(?) maximum prison.I stayed for a few weeks. They took me to Bethlehem. I stayed three days. Itwas like I had stayed there for three years, because I was being thrown in andout of every prison. They took me and they said I was going to be interrogated,I am going to be taken to Welkom, to Qua-Qua. I was even given a house there.I asked, "What is actually going on?" because I was being to another countrynow. By then the Minister of Justice was Mr Ben Johnson. He allowed me to cometo Welkom. When I got there they were following me. I got my mother. My motherwas sick, she suffered a stroke. My father had also left the police force becausehe was sick. I met another gentleman who said whoever was coming from RobbenIsland could be helped financially. He gave me an address as 81 Jureson Streetin Braamfontein, South African Council of Churches. It was still being led byJohn Rees. When I came back I was arrested once more. They said to me I wastaking money from the communists. When I came back from there they said, "Wesaid to you you "must deal with the mines, don't get into the towns." Theytook me another time. They arrested me for two years. Then in 1977 I said tothem, "If I come out of this prison please don't harass me any more. I havejust had enough of your harassment." Then they took me, they said, "There comesa communist."

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Mekwe. I just want to ask a few clarifying questions.You mentioned that when you were arrested you were too young to understand whatwas happening. How old were you?

WITNESS: I was born in 1946 in January on the 21st.

MR DLAMINI: And also you said that you were coming from work. What typeof job were you doing at that time?

WITNESS: I was a clerk.

MR DLAMINI: Can you tell us more about the organisation and the dutiesthat you were performing as a clerk?

WITNESS: I used to do quite a number of jobs.I would be a clerk, an accountant, because at that time they used to just giveyou work, just ordinary work, ordinary office work. I was doing quite a numberof jobs. When they see that there's something that - I was also a storeman.When they see that there's an odd job they would give it to you.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ...the company you were working for?

WITNESS: It wasWelkom Engineering.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you. Can you also tell us about your family, the wifeand the children in particular? I know that at the moment you are staying withyour mother.

WITNESS: I had a wife, as well as kids. When I remember quite well,according to the old laws when you get arrested the Security Police would goand tell your wife that she must divorce you because he is going to die in RobbenIsland.  So women used to listen to that, so when she came back shedivorced me.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you. And the children, where are they and how old arethey?

WITNESS: Since they ran away with their mother I have never seen them. Evenwhen my father died they never came to the funeral. I never saw them again.

MR DLAMINI: The conviction that was imposed on you by the Court in Bloemfontein,what was the nature of the conviction? What was the offence?

WITNESS: When the Courttold me - according to my attorney they said to me I don't know anything. Theysaid to me I must tell the Court as to how I was arrested. I told them thatI was assaulted, I was never told - I was just told that I was a member of PAC,I was a member of all those organisations. So the Court threw away such evidence,they said to me I was vague.

MR DLAMINI: In your opinion what do you think was the real reason behindyour arrest and sentencing?

WITNESS: That question is a very beautiful question thatshould be asked. When we asked the gentlemen with whom I was arrested therewas a Council here in Welkom. This Council used to harass people, and therewas also another Council in 1969. We followed up that Council. As we were followingit up unfortunately the people with whom we were arrested, Moses Libenya andJohn Coetzee, they had a book called, "Cry Our Beloved Country." At the timethat book was banned. Now, these police got this clue that this gentleman whowe were attending school with, that is me, we had this banned book in our possession.Now the police told me if I point out the people who were in possession of thatbook they would release me. Now, I saw it was difficult because they ... (incomplete - end of Side B, Tape2) ... myself how could I have handled such a gun. I don't even know where Tanzaniais. I don't know even know Bloemfontein, I am from Welkom. I know Welkom. Youcan ask me about Welkom.

MR DLAMINI: One more last question from myself and then I'll hand overto the Chairperson. Are you presently employed?

WITNESS: I am not working at all.When I work I work only for three weeks, then they tell me that they don't wantme. Now I am working as a volunteer in the offices. I help in the welfare department,especially in the pensions department, especially when the white people robthem. I help in so many ways, as well as grants. Now they help me financiallybecause they know that I am not working.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible) ... Mekwe. I'll now hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We thank you very much. We cansee that you are grown up now. We thank you for the story that you've relatedto us, and the manner which you were harassed. We hope that this Commissionwould perhaps be able to assist you in any which way it can. We will help. Wethank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Good afternoon, Mrs Matsunyane. Can you hearme all right?