Human Rights Violation Hearings — Kimberley — 1996-06-11

CASE NO: CT/00647

YASMINE SOOKA: [indistinct] in Kimberley the last day, we'd like you to stand up and take the oath please before you begin your testimony.  
THABO MOOROSI Duly sworn states

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thabo as it is customary we have asked a Commissioner to assist you with the leading of your evidence, he's Commissioner Dumisa Ntsebeza on my left hand side and he will assist you to tell your story.  I will hand over to him now.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Thank you Madam Commissioner, now are we going to be speaking in English.

THABO MOOROSI: Yes, I'm going to speak in English.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Oh yes, right.  Now Mr Moorosi can you quickly tell us about yourself, where you were born, where you grew up and what work you do now, what you did before this fateful day in 1986.

THABO MOOROSI: I was born  on the 27th of   November 1956 in a small town in the Northern Free State, Vredefort.  I attended my primary education at the Vredefort Bantu Committee School as it was called by then.  And then I proceeded to Kuruman to join my parents who were working there.  There I did my secondary and high school education, that is till 1975.  And then I joined the underground structure of the ANC in 1975.  
 So we were recruiting members underground until the police were aware of that in 1978, then I was - I was trained even inside the country until I left the country in 1982.  When I  came back in 1986 I was  on a mission  - I - disappointment.  He revealed to them that I was in Botswana, I enter the country and then I return to Botswana.  So when I entered the country in - in - for the second time in 1986 it was in June -  July - I'm not sure of the dates, then they arrested me because all my weapons were - I didn't have weapons with me, they were at Mandibogo - at the DLB.
 So they arrested me at the bus rank when I was supposed to go to Mandibogo and then proceed to Kimberley.  Then when they arrested me it was soldiers and this Security Police.  So definitely there were aware that I was coming.   So I was taken to Mafikeng Police Station where I was - I was forced to remain naked in a cell and then I was tortured brutally.  And then I was hit with the butt of a gun on my head and all these horrible things were - were done to me.
And then when they realised that I was becoming weak, then they sent me to Rooigrond Police Station where I was seen to - interrogated by Lieutenant Tsutsubi and Lieutenant Makinta and Captain Venter.   So they interrogated me in Rooigrond  but realising that I was already weak and then mentally I was becoming unbalanced.  So I stayed there for - for two months and then realising that my condition was worsening then they took me - Sergeant Tsutsubi took me Bophelong Hospital and then I was dropped there.  And then at Bophelong Hospital they didn't state that - state the condition in which I was and then I was just given the treatment given tablets and then I stayed there for two months in hospital and I was given an injection.  And then they took me to Kuruman at home.
 When I arrived at home my situation worsened because during that time - it was during the reign of Mangophe and then hospitals were under - under his control and then the type of treatment that you were suppose to get - it was still in his hands.  So as a result I became confused from 1986 until the un-banning  of the ANC not knowing whether today - what was the day, I had lost my orientation although I was receiving that treatment.  Until the ANC was un-banned and then I met mamma Ruth Mompati - he came to me actually.  And then he said he heard about my conditions and then he took me to - to a psychiatrist here in Kimberley and then he gave me the treatment that I'm receiving even today, thank you.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now I would like to take you back a little,  I know it's - it's always very difficult to relive an experience of mistreatment.  And the tendency is that  witness or witnesses usually skirt over the details.  Now if you don't mind I would like you to go back to the time that you were captured and were places in Rooigrond Prison.  
And if you are able to remember on a day by day - say who on a particular day tortured you because the Commission would like to see if there is a pattern - it the same persons come up again and if the same methods are used so that, you know we can - we can present this completed picture as possible in our report.

THABO MOOROSI: Yes,   [indistinct]  when I was tortured I was sent to Mafikeng Prison and then the person - I only know the person because they were called by their juniors by their names.  Than is Lieutenant Tsutsubi and Lieutenant Makinta, the rest I don't know their names, they're unknown to me.  But those who were administering the torture were those two that I've mentioned   [indistinct]

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now [intervention]

THABO MOOROSI: And then on daily basis they introduce me to me as being from the Security Police as well to them from the Botswana Military Intelligence.  So they wanted Military information from me, beating me every day.  Then there would come another group saying they were from the Security Police - beating me and then I was naked.  Pulling me with my private parts,  hitting me on the head and even I've got a spine were I hurt.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now when you say they were pulling you by your private parts, what do you mean, how did they do that?

THABO MOOROSI: They pulled me through - with - with the private parts because I was naked.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now, you said you have scares from stitches [intervention]

THABO MOOROSI: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Where do you have this scares, on your head?

THABO MOOROSI: Ja, on my head here.

ADV NTSEBEZA: What did they beat you on your head?

THABO MOOROSI: I don't know whether it was just a butt or was I hit against the wall.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now, you've said in your statements that   [indistinct]  to see psychiatrist and you live on the drugs, is that the position today still?

THABO MOOROSI: Ja, I went to see a psychiatrist here in Kimberley.  In Mafikeng where I was brought by the Security Police.  Their medicine did not work, apparently the  standard of their medical was not of  that higher standard.  So it was until 1993 when I was taken to a psychiatrist here in Kimberley that I received the correct treatment.  I don't know whether is it correct because he's not a private psychiatrist because I don't have money to a private psychiatrist.  Because if I don't get that treatment I become confused.  Sometimes even if I get it, I remain confuse sometimes because I cannot sleep.  
 Even if I  try to work, I was supposed to - to be - to have joined the integration process of the Army.  So even the doctors there realised not I was not suitable for the Army.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now, what was the role played by Venter if any when you were being tortured by Tsutsubi and this other person?

THABO MOOROSI: So Venter was interrogating me at Rooigrond Prison wanting to know what was my mission when I entered the country.  Why did I - I leave the country, what was I having with me, with whom was I staying in Botswana - all such things.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now, Rooigrond where's that place, is it in Bophuthatswana?

THABO MOOROSI: The place in Bophuthatswana, it's the only prison - central prison of Bophuthatswana.

ADV NTSEBEZA: And when Venter interrogated you, was it whilst you were naked?  Were you interrogated in cells or were you interrogated in - in an office?

THABO MOOROSI: I was interrogated in an office.

ADV NTSEBEZA: And were you naked at the time or [intervention]

THABO MOOROSI: No, by then - I was naked in Mafikeng, in Rooigrond I had my clothes on.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Now let me get this clear.  Is Rooigrond and Mafikeng two different places?

THABO MOOROSI: Yes.

ADV NTSEBEZA: Where were you kept for five  days naked and stretched with your private parts and all that  [indistinct]