Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-04-22

MR MEIRING: After the vehicles had been searched and the passengers had been searched and questioned the questioning was still under way when Martin gave the instruction to take the Mercedes and to drive back and to see why the 2 vehicles had stopped. Andre Visser and I as well as the driver of one of the vehicles, I do not know which vehicle, climbed into the Mercedes and drove off. We wanted to see what they had thrown out. We only found a packet of ice where they had stopped. I reported to Martin that I had found only a packet of ice at that place.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened then?

MR MEIRING: After I had reported to Martin that I had only found a packet of ice I went back to the Sentra and I stood behind the Sentra. And the reason for that is so that I could see if some one was trying to run into the veld. Right after I stood there I heard a shot fired. After which I heard more shots being fired. This lasted for approximately 10 seconds.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you fire any shots?

MR MEIRING: No. I did not fire any shots. None of the black persons were running to the veld. I also could not shoot in the direction of those who were seated because otherwise I would have shot at my own people.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the persons had been shot, what happened then?

MR MEIRING: After the shooting I shouted that a vehicle was approaching but I could have been mistaken. I saw it as a vehicle. There are lights from residences in the area. We climbed into the vehicle, those of us who were driving in the Sentra and when we drove away Kloppers shouted to us to meet them at the Randfontein City Hall.

MR PRINSLOO: You then went to the City Hall?

MR MEIRING: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Before you proceed, at the City Hall was anything given or shown to you?

MR MEIRING: Yes a case of cassettes was taken out as well as a tool box. The mechanics officer, Diedericks was not with us at that point. Peter Matthews took the tapes and the equipment on the order of Kloppers. He said that it might have had propaganda on it.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that what was said to you or did you hear it?

MR MEIRING: No I did not hear it, Matthews told me.

MR PRINSLOO: So that is afterwards?

MR MEIRING: Yes that was afterwards.

MR PRINSLOO: You did not hear Kloppers say it. But at the Town Hall who received the cassettes and the equipment?

MR MEIRING: The cassettes were given to Visser. I took the equipment to hand over to the mechanics officer at the next meeting. However there was no following meeting before we were arrested.

MR PRINSLOO: What would have been the purpose?

MR MEIRING: It would have been for Mr Diedericks.

MR PRINSLOO: What was his rank? The rank of Diedericks?

MR MEIRING: I cannot remember what his rank at that point was.

MR PRINSLOO: You would have given it to him?

MR MEIRING: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: When were you arrested?

MR MEIRING: On the 6th of January 1994.

MR PRINSLOO: And therefore you could not hand it over to Diedericks?

MR MEIRING: Correct.

MR PRINSLOO: After the meeting at the Town Hall where did you go then?

MR MEIRING: We did not meet Phil Kloppers and the others at the Town Hall because a number of sirens were going off. I do not know if they were sirens of emergency vehicles. I said that we could not stand around there in public. That we had to go back to Mr Badenhorst's house where we dressed in civilian clothes. Because the instruction was to meet Kloppers there and I immediately went back to the Town Hall in order to carry out the instruction and wait for them there.

MR PRINSLOO: Why couldn't you stand around there in public in your uniform when you heard the sirens?

MR MEIRING: I was afraid that they would arrest me.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you then go to Badenhorst's home?

MR MEIRING: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened there?

MR MEIRING: There I dressed in civilian clothes and we returned to the Town Hall to wait for Kloppers.

MR PRINSLOO: Did they arrive there?

MR MEIRING: No they did not arrive there. We waited awhile and then we returned to Jaco Badenhorst's house where we found Kloppers and the others.

MR PRINSLOO: And at Badenhorst's house, what took place there?

MR MEIRING: Kloppers asked each one of us who fired shots. Everyone answered in the affirmative as well as myself because he was in a very aggressive mood, him and Martin because we had driven away so quickly from the scene without helping them to pick up the shells and so forth.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened further at Badenhorst's house?

MR MEIRING: Kloppers showed us the ear which Martin had cut off and after that we all went home.

MR PRINSLOO: Did Martin keep the ear or did he give it to some one? Do you know?

MR MEIRING: I do not know. Kloppers had the ear taken from the car. I do not know who went to fetch the ear from the car.

MR PRINSLOO: And after that you went home?

MR MEIRING: Yes that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And you said that you were arrested on the 6th of January 1994?

MR MEIRING: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you then detained in terms of Section 29?

MR MEIRING: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And during your detention according to the stipulations of Section 29 you made a statement?

MR MEIRING: That is correct. I did make a statement.

MR PRINSLOO: To who did you make the statement?

MR MEIRING: I made the statement before a magistrate. I do not know who it was.

MR PRINSLOO: Was your statement served in court as an exhibit?

MR MEIRING: I myself did not testify. My advocate advised me to submit a plea explanation.

MR PRINSLOO: But the statement which you made in front of the magistrate, was that ever submitted to court?

MR MEIRING: Yes it was submitted.

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson I could not trace the statement in order to make it part of the documents. We did make certain attempts but the Deputy Attorney General does not have the dossier at his disposal. That is why we do not have the statement.
	You were then prosecuted?

MR MEIRING: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And we will submit the indictment to the Committee. After you were prosecuted you were detained in Diepkloof Prison?

MR MEIRING: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And in Diepkloof you were visited by members of the AWB, is that correct?

MR MEIRING: At a point AWB members visited me. Among others General Nick Fourie and General Oelofse.

MR PRINSLOO: Was he also detained in that prison because of other matters?

MR MEIRING: Yes that is correct. He was detained in the same section with us.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you speak to him or did he speak to you?

MR MEIRING: Yes we did speak to one another.

MR PRINSLOO: And did Oelofse mention anything with regard to this case?

MR MEIRING: He congratulated us with what we had accomplished. He said that we had done a good job and he even told us that we would receive medals.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you promoted in any way while you were there?

MR MEIRING: Correct I was promoted to the Assistant Commander.

MR PRINSLOO: On whose recommendation did this take place?

MR MEIRING: I do not know upon whose recommendation but Deon Martin did promote me.

MR PRINSLOO: Would the recommendation for that promotion have come from some one else or could it have been done on own initiative?

MR MEIRING: I am not well versed regarding the procedure for promotions.

MR PRINSLOO: But you were promoted?

MR MEIRING: Yes. That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And why would you have been promoted while you were in prison on murder charges?

MR MEIRING: We were promoted because the General had said that we had done a good job and that we were an example to the others.

MR PRINSLOO: You mention the General, which General?

MR MEIRING: General Jappie Oelofse.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you ever receive any medal?

MR MEIRING: No. Thus far I have not received anything.

MR PRINSLOO: You have heard the testimony of Commander Martin, did you attend the meeting at the Voortrekker Monument?