Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-06

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: But he was busy in East London.  And subsequent to the attack, he was Gerring Inhaus(?) or something or something like that, but it was the person after the attack who was, who got a new appointment as the head of whatever division of the SAP.  And I vividly, I just remember one picture of him holding something which looked like a device, I think they were looking for cartridges at the back side of the golf club, as I could see them in the printed media.   So his a mention, his name was mentioned there.  Now I could recall after they said he got an appointment and he's facing that challenge to apprehend or whatever, and stabilise the security situation ...[indistinct].  So that is the extent to which we were informed.

MR PRIOR: I see.  Now, you were in constant contact with the other caddies at the golf club, is that right?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Constant contact?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Contact, you were getting information from them on a constant basis.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: From?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: The caddies, the other golf caddies?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Yes, yes, yes, in fact after each and every day.

MR PRIOR: Now, you see my ...[intervention]

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Can I ...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Sorry?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Can I, because for the purpose of your question, after each and every day we were there we used to gather around as these black people, show each other somebody has got R2, 25c and what but the two of us, either myself some of the days or comrade Lester, would got to that chap, the man that I've said I've forgotten his name and just have a chat with him you see and ask for extra money.
	I remember one time he gave me R2 more, more than the 50c I got.  So that was all an information gathering exercise.

MR PRIOR: You see - I don't want to belabour this aspect, but you've referred to it three or four times in your evidence, the 20c and the 50c, did that cause a particular anger in you or an embitterment in you towards the golf club, the fact that you were treated so badly as a caddie?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: No.  Let me say: "No" because that was not what motivated me to plan the attack.

MR PRIOR: I just want to make that clear because you refer to it constantly.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Ja.  But of course, I mean, it proved a point to me that, okay real here in our own country we are being treated as underdogs.  I mean you could - the way even they were speaking to us or generally to those black caddies.

MR PRIOR: So there was a strong racial tension there or element there, is that correct?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Let me say, because it was them they undermined us too much.  Sad that I remember, I remember one time comrade Skumiso telling me about one of the campaigns of the PAC, the status campaign, saying: "You see comrade, Sobukwe saw this thing that status campaign".
	It's really relevant to prepare the African people to wage a war against the white people because the way that our guys were, it was disturbing.

MR PRIOR: Can I just stop you there?  Do I understand you that you were being prepared to wage a war against the white people, the black people against the white people?  Was that the idea behind this status campaign?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: The idea behind the status campaign was to remove the inferiority complex from the African people.  I mean to remove the very idea that when they see you, they see you as a bas....  I mean from that position it would be very difficult to ...[intervention]

MR PRIOR: Are you addressing that directly to me as the evidence leader?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay, no, no, no, not in that fashion.  No, not in that fashion.

MR PRIOR: May I ask the Chairman please to mention to the public that these are very serious proceedings.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay.

MR PRIOR: There have continued outbursts of laughter and I think detracts from the serious process of what we're about.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't agree that there have been repeated outbursts Mr Prior, but I would ask people to control themselves a little.

MR PRIOR: I'm indebted to the Chair.
	Mr Xundu, may we just move on.  The information that I have and the evidence that will be led is that on that particular day that you planned the King William's Town operation, the golf club operation, there certainly was a golf day that been arranged by Mr Radu, who was the Nationalist Party member of Parliament for King William's Town but that had come to an end towards the end of the afternoon and that the function which had continued, which had in fact commenced in the evening was the Wine Tasters Club which consisted predominantly of senior citizens of the area and which had nothing to do with the Nationalist Party or the South African police services or the army or whatever.
	If I could just explain to you the words: "senior citizens", it has particular meaning in English, which is people who are elderly, people who are retired, not high ranking people, that's is the meaning of the word: "Senior Citizens" in English, just so you understand that.  
	Do you understand what I'm putting to you?  It seems - sorry, first of all, do you understand the question?  It's that the factual position on that day was that there was a golf club organised by this Nationalist Party figure, that that golf day came to an end, the function which was on the go when you made the attack was in fact the Wine Tasting Club that were having their annual Christmas party, their end of the year party.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay I understand your concern about the interpretation of: "senior citizens" and okay, that was not the only, that was not the only thing which I said I received.

MR PRIOR: Do you understand what I'm putting to you, that there was certainly a distinction, a difference between the patrons that you had targeted?

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: There was a difference?

MR PRIOR: Well, ...[intervention]

MR LAX: Maybe I can help you, it's really quite simple.  There were two separate functions on that day, one was a golf day which Mr Radu had organised then that was finished, in the evening the Wine Tasting Club had a function.  Now the Wine Tasting Club was a different organisation from Mr Radu, that's what he's putting to you.  So he's saying, do you realise there were two different functions on that day?
	The one involving Mr Radu was already over at the time you launched the attack and in fact the people who were present in that room you attacked were not Mr Radu's connections, it had nothing to do with him, it was a separate group of people who were part of a Wine Tasting Club.

THEMBELANI TANDEKILE XUNDU: Okay, whatever it ...[indistinct] to be, but what we knew was that the function at the golf club that day would start in the afternoon and proceed to the evening.  In fact on that day I must have gone with comrade Lester but could not enter the club, just to see the situation from a distance.
	We saw that there were many cars parking and therefore it means this function that we had was, it was confirmation.  That's what we did before we took the other guys for final reconnaissance.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prior, both you and Mr Lax have confidently said that the one function was over.  If you look at photograph 15 which seems to be a photograph of the bar, it would look as if it were very busy at the time.

MR LAX: Just for the record, I was simply repeating the question Chairperson, I wasn't putting the proposition, it was his proposition, but anyway.

MR PRIOR: Yes Mr Chairman, I was trying to limit and explain the question as it went on.  The golf day was at an end, I'm not suggesting that no-one who participated in that golf day was not in the bar but the bar in the dining room where the wine tasting function was held were two distinct parts of the premises.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.