Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: We were charged with public violence.

MS MAYA: What did they say what had you done?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: We were told that we were stoning the police.  What happened was that the trial continued and after people were set free, were released on Monday the trial continued for two to three weeks and while we were conducting the trial, myself, Wintie and someone else were arrested for intimidation.  We were now in custody for the intimidation matter and we were still on trial for this other matter.  I was sentenced to seven years imprisonment.  The others were sentenced to five and three years imprisonment.

MS MAYA: Did you serve the sentence?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: We were in custody for about five months, because I was still awaiting trial and I think we stayed there a month or two and we would then change to St Albans.  Then we were taken to J C Steyn in Kirkwood and we were released after five months or so.

MS MAYA: How were you released?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: We were released after our appeal had succeeded.

MS MAYA: With regards to the intimidation charge, who were you accused of having intimidated?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: There was a white policeman in Towe, there was someone in Towe who had been bribed by a white policeman by the name of Oberholzer.  There was a beer-hall which belonged to Oberholzer.  Now this beer-hall was something which intoxicated people, because they use to sell a sort of malt beer called Shlukusha and we tried to get rid of that beer-hall by holding a prayer service all week, trying to alert the people to the dangers of this.  The people then became aware and decided not to buy at that beer-hall anymore and because it worked we were accused of having intimidated people.

MS MAYA: What happened with that matter?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: It was withdrawn.

MS MAYA: In both matters were you represented by a legal representative?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: In the public violence we were represented by de la Haap and in the other matter we were represented by a Mr Morena from Durban.

MS MAYA: Now that you are before this Commission, is there any request which you like to make?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: What I would like to see done is that people should come and tell the truth before the people, because what people did, they should say why they did and who had sent them, because even when we were on trial the Brigadier who was in charge of the riot squad came to give testimony and not the policeman who had actually pulled the trigger.  We want them to come here and come and tell us the truth, tell us why they did this, who were they.

MS MAYA: Were there any other requests which you made?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: Yes, I suffered a lot in the oppression of the struggle, I worked without any problems, I had worked all along without any problems, but all this affected me in such a way that it even effected my house.  I am now living under these circumstance because of that.  I have children who were at school and I am unemployed and it is just very difficult.  Also, these pellets which are in my body are not supposed to be in my body.  They cause me great discomfort and if I could be put in touch with a doctor in any way to have them removed, I would like that.

MS MAYA: You also mentioned the building of schools in Port Alfred.

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: Yes, that is one of the things which I would like to see done.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much Mr Gqolodashe.  We would like to go to Nomalady.  The last question, Mr Gqolodashe, why did you leave work after you were injured, were you dismissed or, were you dismissed?

TOBILE CECIL GQOLODASHE: All these things happened when I was still at work.  After I got injured I could not go back to work because of my injuries

MS MAYA: Thank you very much.  Can you please explain to us, are you Mrs Tyuku or Tuka?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: Tyuku.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much.  In your statement in front of us you are going to talk about Madodana Zolisile Tyuku.  Is the one Mr Gqolodashe referred to?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: Yes, he is the one.

MS MAYA: How old was Zolisile, Mam?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: He was still a young man at the time.

MS MAYA: Do you remember his age?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: No, I do not remember his age.  He was a young man.

MS MAYA: Was he still at school?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: No, he was not at school.

MS MAYA: According to your knowledge, was he a member of any political organisation?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: No, he was not a member.

MS MAYA: Why was he shot by the police?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: He went to work at that day.  When he came back from work the police were shooting all over in Makamangeni.  I told him not to go out of the yard and he listened to me, he did not go out.  He just told me, he asked permission to go to a neighbours house to play cards.

MS MAYA: When you are saying that the situation was bad in Makamangeni, what was happening?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: There was a boycott at that time.

MS MAYA: Why?  Do you remember?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: No, I do not remember clearly.

MS MAYA: Was he shot when he asked permission to go to the neighbours house to play cards?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: Yes, when he was going out a Hippo passed in that house.  When I looked through the window I saw that there were police in that Hippo.

MS MAYA: What happened after that?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: I heard that the Hippo stopped in that street.  I did not have a chance to go out and look outside, I stayed inside the house.  We had supper.  After a while I heard gunshots in that street.

MS MAYA: When did you hear that he was shot?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: We heard when the Hippo left Makamangeni and one white man left.  I heard gunshots and I peeked through the window again.  I heard one man saying, shoot him.

MS MAYA: When you were looking through the window did you notice anyone?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: It was Nocanda.

MS MAYA: What happened after he got injured?  Did you get an attorney or did you lay a charge against them?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: I could not do that although we had a lawyer, an ANC lawyer, hired by Mr Mkweni, but I could not, I did not know what to do.

MS MAYA: What happened in the case?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: We appeared in court once, but after that we did not hear anything.

MS MAYA: What happened to the lawyer?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: I could not go to the lawyer, because at that time I was weak.  My mother and Mr Mkweti were consulting with this lawyer.

MS MAYA: There is something in your statement I want you to clarify.  You say that the undertaker offered money for you, he will give you amount of money if you claimed that your brother died because he was sick.  He told you not to say that he was shot.

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: Yes, Kitile came and I was taken to the mortuary.  The Boers were there together with their guns.  They told me to go and look at the body.  He was lying down in a cement, there was a black bucket next to him.  They told me to take off his clothes and I did.  I was taken to the front office.  They said that he stoned a van.  I told them that he did not do that, because he was just coming out of the house.

MS MAYA: Do you know the reason why Kitile says that you must say that he was sick, he was not shot?

NOMALADY NOMELUMZI TYUKU: We did not know the reason, because I asked him what did he mean by saying that we must go and bury him with the prisoners.  He wanted us to bury him immediately and I told him that my family is not around, we have to inform them, because they were in Johannesburg.  He said that if we can agree, they will give us this amount of money together with the prisoners.  I told him that I am not going to do that, because this child was not sick, he was shot.