Human Rights Violation Hearings — Sebokeng — 1996-08-08

PROF MEIRING: Mr Phele thank you so much for telling the story.  I can just imagine how painful it must be for you today after two years, after how many years, after four years to re-tell the story.  I don't want to prolong your difficulty but may I ask a number of questions just to clarify issues.  You said that your son Frans Molefe he went into exile in 1990, was that to be trained?  Was he trained as an Apla cadre?

ABEL PHELE: I don't know as to whether was he a soldier, a trained soldier or not.  I only knew him as a very active member of the PAC.

PROF MEIRING: I am asking that because I want to know why the police were after him, did they see him as an activist or a dangerous man who was trained?

ABEL PHELE: I don't know because he was schooling.  I don't know what kind of person he was as they looked at him because at the time when they arrested him they didn't tell us any reason.  That was the first time.  We were not told of any reasons of his arrest.

PROF MEIRING: Did your son tell you about what happened to him in Tanzania, about the training he had or didn't he tell much about that?

ABEL PHELE: He never said anything.  He didn't tell me as to what kind of training did he get.  He said he was in school in Tanzania that's all he told me.

PROF MEIRING: If I continue the story you told that the
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first time when he was arrested at the Trek garage he was taken to the Houtkop police station and then he was tortured, you said that his face was badly injured, can you tell us a little bit more about the torture and why he was tortured.  Did they want to get information from him?  Why was the torture?

ABEL PHELE: When I asked him he said they started assaulting him, telling him he was a leader of the PAC and he refused and they said to him he must tell them the truth.  That is the reason why they assaulted him.  They wanted to know his position within the PAC.  They kicked him.  They used their butts to hit him on the face and on the back.

PROF MEIRING: Another thing that struck me as something I want to ask about is when he was shot on that New Year's Eve day, the 31st of December of 1992, you said that he was shot in the buttock and did you think that he was very badly injured, did you expect that he would die from a shot in the buttock the next morning?

ABEL PHELE: Not at all.  We never thought that he would die of that injury because it was a very small wound. And according to the post mortem report they said they got two bullets in his body and I was surprised because he only had one wound on the left buttock.  That's what surprised me a lot.

PROF MEIRING: It surprises me too.  At the inquest did they talk about that?  Did they give more information about the second shot?

ABEL PHELE: No they never gave me any explanation Sir.

PROF MEIRING: You told about the two sons of Mr Modidi, you gave the names as Tabo and Ndladla, is that right, are those the sons?
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ABEL PHELE: These are the two boys with whom he was at the passage at the time he was shot.

PROF MEIRING: But are they the children of Mr Modidi?

ABEL PHELE: No I never said anything about Modidi. Mdala's surname is Mofokeng.  Tabo belongs to the other father and Mdala to the other family.  I can't remember Mdala's surname.

PROF MEIRING: And  you said that there was an inquest held and there's no specific outcome already, may I ask whether you received any compensation for the death of your son?

ABEL PHELE: I didn't receive any kind of help, not even from his organisation.  No assistance was given to me.

PROF MEIRING: I see in your written statement you said that you buried your son at your own expense and there was no compensation from nobody, from no institution.

ABEL PHELE: That's correct Sir.

PROF MEIRING: Mr Phele thank you.  I have asked the questions I needed to ask for clarification but I am positive that some of the other Commissioners also want to add questions.  I hand you over to them.

DR RANDERA: Thank you Professor Meiring.  Mr Mantata?

MR MANTATA: Did Frans according to your observation continue attending PAC meetings?

ABEL PHELE: Yes he used to attend the PAC meetings in Zone 13.  He was an active member.

MR MANTATA: And was he the only one who was being followed by this Golf or were there other PAC members who were similar victims of this car?

ABEL PHELE: I only know him.  I don't know of any other who had been a victim of the white Golf.

MR MANTATA: At what point did Mavundla stop representing
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the family, if he did?

ABEL PHELE: The case is still in his hands but I don't get any reply from him.  What he came to request he asked me about the expenses of the funeral and he wanted the certificates and I sent him all the necessary information but thereafter I never got any response from him.

MR MANTATA: But at the funeral was PAC represented?

ABEL PHELE: Many of them Sir were present.

MR MANTATA: Thank you.  No further questions.

MS SEROKE: This car that you even know of the registration did you ever at any stage get to know who the owner of the car was?

ABEL PHELE: Yes we knew who was the driver of the car, it was Constable Mohapi.

MS SEROKE: You said when your child came back from Tanzania he went back to school, what standard was he doing?

ABEL PHELE: I took him back to standard 8 because he left without completing it.

DR RANDERA: Mr Phele I wonder if I can just ask you a few more questions.  Can you please tell us are you a member of the PAC yourself, or are you a member of any political organisation?

ABEL PHELE: I am an ANC member, I belong to the ANC organisation.

DR RANDERA: Now you say your son left in 1990 and then came back in 1991, why did he leave and where did he go to?

ABEL PHELE: He left with his friends.  They all belonged to the PAC.  I was only told that your son is not here anymore.  Some of the parents came to me whose children had already left.  The reasons for his leaving South Africa I do not know.
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DR RANDERA: From your statement it sounds like from the time that Frans came back he was being harassed and then like so many others in this area and the historians have called this "drive-by shootings" you know, many people seemed to have lost their lives that way.  Can you in your own words tell us what do you think the motive was for killing your son?

ABEL PHELE: I think his arrest led to his death so that they can wipe the evidence.  Maybe the case was too heavy for them.  Maybe they felt guilty for arresting him for sweet nothing.  I think they decided then to wipe him off.

DR RANDERA: And my last question is related to this car again.  You say when you were making a statement with these other young friends of your son you saw the car there and you recognised the people who came out of the car, is that how you found out that the car belonged to this Constable Mohapi that you just mentioned?

ABEL PHELE: That's where I realised that it was a police car.

DR RANDERA: It was a police car or it belonged to a policeman?

ABEL PHELE: It was a police car.  It even had an aerial.  The people who were occupying the car were the policemen.

DR RANDERA: And this Constable Mohapi is he still working for the police?

ABEL PHELE: A few months ago he was still working for the Police Services.  I don't know at this stage where he is.

DR RANDERA: Mr Phele my last question is, what is your expectation from the Truth Commission?

ABEL PHELE: I have just one request from the Truth Commission.  The funeral expenses were heavy on me and I
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still have to erect a tombstone.  I would request that TRC erect a tombstone for this child.  Since the funeral expenses I cannot go back to my normal financial situation.