Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-03-26

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The police came and took Mr Zikhali's body.

CHAIRPERSON: You saw them?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: They picked up the body of Zikhali?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: There was no further shooting on that day in that area?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, there was no further shooting.

CHAIRPERSON: Nothing further happened on that day?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Nothing happened until the following morning.

CHAIRPERSON: Right then that is the end of that chapter.

MR ALBERTS: Yes Mr Chairman.

MR MALAN: Sorry could I just get one follow up.
	You said there was a telephone call from Regina Gcabashe?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: You went to fetch Vusi and Zuma, correct?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: You went to Mr Nyawuza's place?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR MALAN: Is his place close to the scrap yard?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It is not that close to the scrap yard.

MR MALAN: So did you not go and investigate the attack that Mrs Gcabashe phoned about?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We had gone to fetch the boys, not that we went to investigate the attack.  We knew what had happened there.

MR MALAN: Were the boys at Mrs Gcabashe's place, Vusi and Zuma?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They went into the scrap yard but thereafter went to report to Regina Gcabashe.  She was also helping at the scrap yard.

MR MALAN: Were they attacked at the scrap yard?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, they were not being attacked.  This is the trick we use if something has happened in the location.

MR MALAN: What did you see there?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Nothing, we just went to fetch the boys.

CHAIRPERSON: Look here just understand, after the shooting incident when Zikhali was killed you received a telephone call whilst you were at this house from Mrs Gcabashe that there was an attack so you take your friends Vusi Myeza and the other friend of yours and you go there, was there an attack that the telephone call was all about?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: No, there was no attack.

CHAIRPERSON: There was no attack. So on that day there was just this one incident when Zikhali was killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: There was no fighting in the location on that day.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes can we move on to the next incident?

MR ALBERTS: Okay the next incident that you applied for amnesty for is that of the killing of a person by the name of Botha, is that the same person as Vusimuzi Mbokazi?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Botha was staying in the Ubambiswano School teacher's quarters.  He was just a school attending boy.

CHAIRPERSON: No, just the question is, is he the same person?  Is his full name Vusimuzi Muntukaziboni Mbukazi Botha, is that one person?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I do not know his surname.  I know him as Botha.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the only name by which you know him?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes do carry on about talking about this killing of Botha.

MR ALBERTS: Okay was a decision made to kill this Botha person?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, we took a decision to kill Botha.

MR ALBERTS: Who was present when this decision was taken?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: It was Mr Dlulane, Vusi Myeza and myself.

MR ALBERTS: The three of you?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: And that is the same three persons that were involved in the meeting regarding Mr Zikhali, is that right?  That is the same people you mentioned when you spoke regarding Zikhali?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were four when we decided to kill Mr Zikhali.

MR ALBERTS: Yes but that is the same people, three of those people that were mentioned there are the three people you are mentioning now?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When was this decision taken?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I cannot remember the date when Botha was killed, but it was a Saturday.

MR ALBERTS: Where was this meeting held?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were at Mr Dlulane's house.

MR ALBERTS: And why was it decided that Botha was to be killed?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Mr Botha came to Mr Dlulane one day, after it was known that he was friendly to some ANC members.  At that time, IFP supporters were no longer allowed to attend classes at Ubambiswano School.  We were of the opinion that whenever Botha visited Mr Nyawuza's house in our absence, he would gather information and see whether Mr Nyawuza's house was guarded or not.  We then decided, the three of us, that we must do something to him.  We decided to shoot.

MR ALBERTS: Okay was this suspicion that you had regarding him being, let's call it a spy, is that something you saw or that you heard or is it just a mere suspicion?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: We were not just suspecting.  We knew that when he went to Mr Nyawuza's house when we were not there, he wanted to get some information from the boys who were also staying there.

MR ALBERTS: Okay but can you tell me how do you know that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was also in the company of the ANC boys, and was not attending IFP meetings in the location.

MR ALBERTS: If you say he was extracting information, how did he go about doing that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was asking the boys when we were going to a meeting and where.  The boys would then report to us.  Usually, after getting this information, our bus would then be ambushed on the way.  That is how we knew that he was passing information.

CHAIRPERSON: So what did he do when he gathered this information about where meetings were going to be held, what did he do?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was telling the ANC people that information.

MR ALBERTS: Are you trying to say that is why the bus or how the bus was attacked?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

MR ALBERTS: You also spoke about school kids not allowed to go to school, what was this Mr Botha's involvement in that?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He was involved in hitting the IFP youth members, especially the girls.  He was in the forefront.  He used to do this with other boys like Schoolboy and others.

MR ALBERTS: What do you mean he was in the forefront, did he do something physically?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: They used to carry firearms and use to stab schoolgirls on their buttocks.  They were doing this because these children were IFP members.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's just get this clear, I get a very confused picture from you.  You say he would stop children from going to school, how would he stop children from going to school?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: The children were attending school at Ubambiswano High School.  When this violence started, they attacked these children and chased them away from the school.  These children could no longer attend school.

CHAIRPERSON: So are you saying that he, this Botha and others would go to school and attack the children and the teachers at school?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I had warned Botha several times that they should not attack the children because they were just attending school.  I told him that I did not like it.  His reply was that it is because we were "klovas" (derogatory word referring to IFP members).

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see this happening?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you at the school when this happened?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, I saw it with my own eyes.

CHAIRPERSON: So when you see this happening did you not go up to him and ask him why he is attacking the children?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: I approached him.

CHAIRPERSON: So you were on talking terms with Mr Botha?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: Yes, we were on talking terms with him.

CHAIRPERSON: What did he say when you asked him not to interfere with the children's schooling, what did he say?

THULANI MZOKHONA MYEZA: He used to tell me that there was nothing I could do and that I was speaking on their behalf because we were all IFP members.

ADV MOTATA: Mr Myeza did he come out clear that he was an ANC member?