Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

MR PRINSLOO: And your wife, during that meeting was she at her house or where?

UNKNOWN: Yes she was at home.

MR PRINSLOO: After that meeting, Mr Du Randt, when you arrived home did your wife tell you anything or not regarding something which had to be delivered there?

UNKNOWN: She told me that somebody had left Clive's jersey there.  That happened after eight, after prayer meeting.

MR PRINSLOO: What did you understand by a jersey?

UNKNOWN: I thought that it would be a jersey that you could wear.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you have a look at that item?

UNKNOWN: No because my wife said she's put that in the laundry.  I wasn't interested, it was just a jersey.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you contact Mr Derby-Lewis regarding this matter?

UNKNOWN: He told me that I had to contact Derby-Lewis to come and fetch his jersey.  I did contact him and he said
that he would come the next day and collect the jersey.

MR PRINSLOO: What happened the next day?

UNKNOWN: The next day I got up as usual, I did my business between eight and ten and between eight and ten Derby-Lewis would have come to fetch the jersey and my daughter phoned and said why aren't you coming to my house so I said no I was waiting for Clive to come and fetch his jersey and then I said I'll rather go and deliver the jersey at his house and then go to my daughter.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you then go to Derby-Lewis' house?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we went to his house.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you take the parcel with you?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Who handled this parcel?

UNKNOWN: My wife.

MR PRINSLOO: Where did you take it to?

UNKNOWN: We took it to Derby-Lewis' house.  We drove up the driveway, we stopped in front of the front door, I got out of the car, knocked at the door.  Mr Derby-Lewis came then I told I had brought the jersey.  I went round the motor car, got into the car again.  While I was walking round the car I spoke to Derby-Lewis, handed the jersey to him and some post.

MR PRINSLOO: Then you left?

UNKNOWN: Yes then we left for Pretoria.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Du Randt is it correct that during April, round about the 21st April, the South African Police arrived at your house?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And did the police arrest you there?  Did they take you away?

UNKNOWN: Round about 4.30 that morning they knocked at my front door, I went to the door to see what it was about.  Somebody presented himself as Mr Human and Mr Assur and they said I had to come and make a statement regarding a firearm that was used in the murder of Mr Hani.

MR PRINSLOO: At that stage when they asked you about a firearm and Mr Hani's death did you know anything about it?

UNKNOWN: No, I did not know anything about a firearm or Mr Hani's death but that Saturday, I've already heard that there was an assassination.

MR PRINSLOO: The police, did they question you there, did they take you to Benoni Police Station?

UNKNOWN: Do I have to tell everything which happened there?  I haven't opened the door then, they were in private clothes, I did not know whether they were policemen or what.  My wife came there and when she said Assur, my wife came there and the one Detective said he was Assur and she recognised him as a friend of her father.  We opened the door and they came in and they said I had to accompany them to the Police Station and I said I'm going to wash first, I was still wearing my pyjamas.  When I went down the passage on my way to the bathroom to wash my face and to shave, I saw a policeman behind me with a long gun, a kind of a revolver and he said "there's no time to play now, you must hurry" and I said no, I'm first going to read the bible and pray and then we left.  Then we went to Krugersdorp Police Station and from there Mr Human got out of the car and Sergeant van Niekerk accompanied Assur and me to Monument Town and we stopped there at a house and according to what I could remember, they picked up Mr Faan Venter there.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you know Mr Faan Venter at that stage?

UNKNOWN: I've never seen him before, I did not know him.

MR PRINSLOO: And then from there you went to Benoni Police Station.  Having arrived there were you interrogated?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: What did they ask you?

UNKNOWN: When I had arrived at Benoni Police Station they told me that Mr Derby-Lewis had said that I had provided the firearm to him and I said he was lying.  Then they fetched Mr Derby-Lewis, I greeted him and I said "How are you Clive" he said "Fine, under the circumstances" and they said "tell Mr Du Randt what you've told us" and he told me I just had to speak the truth.

MR PRINSLOO: And at that stage did you know what you had given to Derby-Lewis was a firearm?

UNKNOWN: No I did not hand over the fire weapon to him because they told me in that parcel was not a jersey it was a firearm.

MR PRINSLOO: At the police station did they show you a jersey at any stage?  Did they show you a firearm?

UNKNOWN: They showed me various firearms and every time they wrote something down and they want me to sign that I've seen these various boxes and I've seen the firearm.  I refused to do that.

MR PRINSLOO: This little box or little boxes you're referring to which they've shown there, were these little boxes in which firearms were kept?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you make a statement to the police as far as you can remember?

UNKNOWN: Yes I made a statement.

MR PRINSLOO: How did they treat you at the Police Station?

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, this is a very difficult matter.  I know they have to do their duty but they did not treat me well.

MR PRINSLOO: After you've made your statement, did you see your wife there at the Police Station at Benoni?

UNKNOWN: Yes later that afternoon round about 5 o'clock my wife and daughter came to the police station.

MR PRINSLOO: Did they ask her questions?

UNKNOWN: Yes we went from the one room to the other room and Mr Mike Holmes interrogated my wife whether she had seen this little box.

UNKNOWN: Your wife testified that the date that this weapon was received was the 24th February and the 25th February was apparently your daughter's birthday and at that day the weapon was delivered at Derby-Lewis' house.  Having had a look at these documents was that the correct date?

UNKNOWN: No, those dates were wrong.

MR PRINSLOO: And later that evening after you've made the statement and after you've been interrogated did the police take you back to your house?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  I myself, my wife and my daughter.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you at a later stage make any notes of your treatment you received at the police station?

UNKNOWN: Yes I did.

MR PRINSLOO: Yes you had, I'm just asking.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is it suggested that this witness made any statement under duress?  If not, why is the record being burdened with these matters?

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chair, with respect, I do not intend burdening the record, I'm merely leading the evidence that you made notes about and it's available, I'm not handing it in.  It will be up to Mr Bizos if he wants to see it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Though I'm not getting to that.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you finished?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you any questions on behalf of Mr Walus?

UNKNOWN: No questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bizos?

GEORGE BIZOS: Mr Chairman, my learned colleague, Mr Malendi, will examine the witness.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes please proceed.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MALENDI

MR MALENDI: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr Du Randt, did Mrs Du Randt at any stage tell you that the packet contained a weapon?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

UNKNOWN: After a delivery with Mr Clive Derby-Lewis?

MR MALENDI: She did not at any stage tell you that the packet which was supposedly a jersey actually contained a weapon?

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.
The speaker's microphone is not on.