bitter-aloe/trc-testimonies huggingface dataset:
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-02

CHAIRPERSON: We do not have enough words to strengthen you and comfort you because one would be able to say those are saying this because it is better with the lives.  They did not suffer this pain, but we still say to you, may God be the one who would be able to anoint you with His Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit would be able to bind your wounds and even your families wounds.  We sympathise with
MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
6 D TIJANE
you for what you have experienced and now the nation is sympathising with you.  That is why we have this Truth Commission where people like you are able to testify that the whole nation would be able to say we sympathise with you of what has happened.  We hope that the pain you have by the death of your son was not out of nothing, was something which bore fruits that today we are people.  We are able to govern ourselves.  
 Yes, you suffer from that pain, but you know that when you are in war there are those who are going to fall, there are those who are going to survive.  We ask you that you will be one of those who would say, yes, we were hurt, but we are people who are now liberated.  We thank you very much sir.

DAVID TIJANE: Yes, if the soldier has died in war, is there no reimbursement?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that is what we are trying, that all of us would be able to join hands with you so that many people have made you hurt in different ways, others were imprisoned, others went into exile in other nations, others were killed.  Then today we said we want to hear the evidence of what exactly has happened so that we will be able to see how can we help each other.

DAVID TIJANE: I do not know that if that is true there is nothing I can say further, but the others must know that I feel pain by the death of my son.  After that I started to have a heart problem.  Then I said my son out of all the children, why my son died.  I even nearly committed suicide.  One man came to comfort me, came to advice me.  So that person has helped me.  I decided even to commit suicide.  Even now when I am thinking of my son my heart is sore.
MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
7 D TIJANE

CHAIRPERSON: If you are not a person, you could not feel that pain.  That feeling shows that you are a person and we are trying in a witness, we are trying to heal that wound.  Thank you sir.
MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-05

DR RANDERA: ... in Kwandebele from 1983 onwards.  You have a great deal of insight as to what happened during that period. You were intimately involved with the police and with the then Kwandebele cabinet and I am going to give you the time today to tell us your experience and your insight into what happened during that time and perhaps you can give us some light on some of the incidents, some of the stories that have been told in the last four days.  This is your time.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Moutse — 1996-12-05

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming to testify, that was very important to hear your perspective.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shabangu, I have asked Mr Lewin to lead you through your evidence. However, before he does that he will ask you to take the oath.  We would like to welcome you here today.

MR LEWIN: Mr Shabangu, if you could please stand.

EDWARD SHABANGU: (Duly sworn, states).

MR LEWIN: We are grateful to you for coming before the Commission.  Your name is not on the list, but your statement has come to us more recently, and we are very pleased to be able to fit you in, in what is a busy schedule. We are grateful to you for staying behind to come and make your statement.
 As I understand it, what you are going to be talking about is what happened to your sister.  This is during 1989. If you could please in your own time and in your own words tell us what happened.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwa, are you able to hear me?    Could you tell us who the lady is who is accompanying you so that we may welcome her?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: She is my mother.

CHAIRPERSON: Welcome Mamma, to the Truth Commission hearing.  Mr Hlongwa, before you start your story we will ask Mr Lewin to ask you to take the oath, please.

MR LEWIN: Mr Hlongwa, if you could please stand?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: (Duly sworn, states.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now ask Ms Mkhize to assist you with the telling of your story.

MS MKHIZE: We welcome you.  I request you if you try and speak loud so that people should hear you.  I will request you to tell us your story.  Tell us briefly about yourself and what happened in 1986, what were you doing, how were you involved and how did you make a living.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwa, I want to - Mr Malan has just indicated that he wants to ask you another question.  He says he will hold - Mr Hlongwa, I want to thank you for sharing the story with us. It is not a nice one, and is an
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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example of many of the stories that we have heard in our work this year.  There is no reason why we should not be able almost immediately to be able to arrange with the MEC for Health that at least you are able to obtain the health services that you need, because health services in our country is supposed to be free. Often it is question of simply putting you in touch with the right people who hold those resources. We will look into your matter and see what we can do.  Thank you for coming and sharing your story with us.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to acknowledge the presence of the students from the Academy of Learning that have just joined us.  The Academy is based in Nelspruit and we thank you for spending the afternoon with us.  We would also like to welcome those of you who joined us after lunch.  It is very important for the process of going forward in our country that as many people as possible know of what happened during the last number of years.  So that we can begin to set the record straight. But more importantly, so that we can make sure that they never ever happen again.  Mamma, can you hear me?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Yes, I can.

CHAIRPERSON: As is customary we would like to welcome you to the hearings of the Commission.  We normally allocate a Commissioner to assist you with the leading of your evidence.  Mr Hugh Lewin on my right is going to ask you to take the oath first and then he will ask you to tell your story.  Thank you for coming.  Do you want to tell me who the gentleman is who has accompanied you, so that we may welcome him.

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: It is Michael Ndowe.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to welcome you and thank you for coming to support Mrs Mbiba.

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: ;  (sworn states).

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.  You are here to tell us the HRV/MBIBA story/...
1
story of your son, Thembiuso Simon Ndowe. I just wanted to check, are we correct in pronouncing and spelling his name?  It is NDOWE, is that correct?

GEJANE PAULINE MBIBA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: This refers to a time in March 1983, which, if you could please, in your own time, tell us about.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-02

MS MKHIZE: Mr Mahaule, as you have related to us that there are people who are already back from Tanzania who are now driving luxury cars and since in the morning we heard that the policemen are doing this, what must be done in order that we should have good human relationship, people should
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
10 MAHAULE
not say well that policeman did this wrong to me, as you have already indicated that some are now back in the country and yet they burnt your home.  Where should we start in fact, what must we do in order to sort of go back to the normal situation?  I thank you.

MR MAHAULE: I am happy.  I am pleased that we should forgive one another and what has happened to me, the bad things that they did to me, I ask that God should help them because I think maybe at that time Satan was actually playing a major role in their lives.  Now that they are back and now they are driving BMW I am asking that we should work hand in hand.  I am saying this in front of this Commission that I forgive them.  In my Bible Jesus said that Lord please forgive them because they did not know actually what they were doing.  I am also saying I forgive them.

MS MKHIZE: We really thank you, Mr Mahaule.

CHAIRPERSON: We listened, we sympathise about the problems that you experienced and people who looked at you as a police officer.  And they were saying that as a police officer you are now part of the whites.  Of the boers.  And the boers were saying to you no we don't trust you.  You people you sort of collaborate with your own black people.  After such damage and you were only given R24, you know this really it is very bad, it is very sad.  The freedom that we are having today we should move away from those things of the past, we should come to the place where we are now.  Where the community should actually view the police officers as they are police officers, they are the people to look after their protection, they will respect them and the same should apply with the police that you should regard the public as people who must be given the necessary safety.  I
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am happy that you are a Christian and you in your capacity you say that you are prepared to forgive those who wronged you.    We believe that it is our duty in fact as a Commission that all those who were actually enemies before there should be some way that we should bring them together and they should reconcile.  They should be not enemies any longer.  They should become friends.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-03

MR LEWIN: Do you think you gave him any reason for shooting you?

MS MALOMA: There was no reason.
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
6 S MALOMA

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Sibongile we have listened very carefully, one of the tragedies that we have listened to in many parts of the country is the number of people who were shot in the face.  We don't understand it.  We don't know why this happened, but many, many people have come to us and have lost either the sight of one eye or both eyes, and people have been plunged into darkness, sometimes at a very young age.  You were only 15 when this happened to you.  You are still a young person.  I think we would like to encourage you to find a new meaning in life in terms of work, you mentioned you want to continue your schooling, you mentioned that you would like to learn to type, we will make enquiries and we will be in touch with yourself or with your father to see how we can help to make some opportunities for training to take on new life that even in the darkness there can be some light.  Thank you very, very much for coming and we are going to be in touch with you as soon as we can be.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mdawe, will you put the head-phones on or are you going to speak in English?  Can you hear me?

JABULANI MICHAEL MDAWE: Yes, I hear you.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you begin your evidence, I am going to ask Mr Lewin to ask you to take the oath, please.

JABULANI MICHAEL MDAWE: ;  (Duly sworn, states).

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You may be seated. Is that your brother who is accompanying you today?

JABULANI MICHAEL MDAWE: The person next to me is my brother.

CHAIRPERSON: We would like to welcome him too.  I am not going to hand you over to Mr Malan who will help you with your evidence.

MR MALAN: Mr Mdawe, you did give us a statement and you will be telling us of some events, starting in May 1986, eventually leading up to your detention and eventual release. I don't want to do the story for you.  We have read your full statement.  We will appreciate it if you will in your own words capture the major moments so that it makes a total picture, without expanding unnecesarily in view of the time constraints.  But you are welcome to address us.  Thank you very much for being here.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-02

MRS MATHEBULA: As I've explained, I'm trying. I go to the white people to work, on some days I am at work, but when I'm terribly sick I'm not present at work. And if I don't bring the medical certificate, I don't get a full salary. And every time I've been to the doctor, I have to produce a medical certificate and as time went by, this
woman just cut my working days and she said to me, "You are coming on certain days and on certain days not. It would be much better if we cut your working days and we cut the salary".  And because of that then, I cannot survive.

CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you Sister Gladys.  There is nothing painful like knowing that you are innocent and you are taken to prison and the authorities say, "No you will spend three years in jail", for something you know that you didn't do. It is very disturbing. We feel with you and we NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
10 MATHEBULA
really sympathise with you for your health.  Your marriage is also destroyed, you lost many things in actual fact, and we really do not know how to bring back everything you lost. But what we are doing here, we have to say yes, our Nation agrees that terrible things took place in the past and the Nation is saying therefore, we feel with you, we sympathise with you for the trouble that you have been through and please forgive us for the things that happened to you!  You will also realise that you were harassed, but that wasn't for a free cause. We now have freedom. We saw that when Mandela was released from prison. 
 I'm not saying that you should think that we are 
ignoring your pains. You still have pains but remember those were not for nothing.  They were pains to give us the freedom that we have today and we hope that the things that happened to you, that have happened in your life will never ever happen to anyone anymore.
 I don't know as to whether Mrs Slengiwe Mkize, because she is in the Reparations Committee, I don't know as to what kind of help will they give you with regards to the costs as you've been to many doctors. There might be something that they will forward to the President of the country so that you can be helped. We want you to be strong. May God help you, may he remove everything bad in your heart.  We thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: Because I did not know that something of this nature would occur, I had such documents.  Even when we consulted doctors, those papers were there.  When I heard over the radio that there will be a Truth and Reconciliation Commission here, then I heard that, I wished to appear.  It was my longing wish. I tried, when I come to Nelsville - I sent my husband, who is working at Malaga. I said he should consult in order that we should get a statement, and together with the photos. I wanted all those documents to be taken to Nelsville.   My father went there, my husband went there. Then he said to me Whitey said during that time policemen came in and policemen actually ransacked the house and they took everything.  There were a lot of things there.  They took lots and lots of documents, after searching that house. Most of the documents went missing. He doesn't have anything now.  But if the Commission would like perhaps to hear from him, he can provide his phone number, he has got
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
15 MRS P L MTHOMBENI
it.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, is this the doctor?

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: The doctor.

YASMINE SOOKA: Because you have his name, you have said his name in the statement. I just want to confirm what his name is.

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: Whitey or Widey, Dr Waddie.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, did you also ever appear in court with your son after this?

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: No, never.

YASMINE SOOKA: You didn't go to a lawyer yourself?

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: No, I have never been there, because I was told that the case is finalised.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: During those days, even if we were afraid, even though people could advise us that we could collect money to seek help with an attorney, we couldn't do it.

CHAIRPERSON: We want to thank you.  We really feel what happened to your child as a Commission here. When we were appointed as a Commission, there were a lot of different views.  Some said well, we don't need this Commission.  But it was then obvious that we do need a Commission so that we can be able to say what we want to say.  More especially those people who have been affected. You are one of those when you wake up in the morning, you look at your child and you are reminded that we are from the past, more especially the dark past.  Now we hope this very committee that is assisting us here, is going to help us in order to look into a matter like for instance, assisting your child, that whenever he consults a doctor he can be assisted, and more especially when it comes to an application for a pension. We also will do something on our own to forward your name up to NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
16 MRS P L MTHOMBENI
a stage where perhaps we can see what can be done. 
 I thank you.

PHALISANE LSBETH MTHOMBENI: I thank you.
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

MRS NGOMANE: Yes, I knew that he was a comrade, but I could not say anything to them, because by that time everyone who was a boy in that place was a comrade.
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA

<UNKNOWN>: MRS S N NGOMANE

MR LEWIN: These guns that they said they were looking for, did you ever see Patrick with a gun at any stage?

MRS NGOMANE: No, I have never seen him with a gun.  What I saw from his was a sjambok.

CHAIRPERSON: Order, order, please.  Order, please.  We have asked you that let's make sure that we afford the witnesses all the dignity and respect they deserve.  Please.

MR LEWIN: I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit more about the time when your husband was away and the house had been ransacked. You said you had to sleep outside in the bush.  Was that because of what had happened at the house or was it because of the police coming there?

MRS NGOMANE: They were threatening us that we will be killed.  These soldiers were coming during the night.

MR LEWIN: What happened to Patrick?  You say your husband was away for three or was it four years?  Did Patrick stay away all that time as well?

MRS NGOMANE: My son ran away also, he went into hiding in Germiston.

MR LEWIN: But you kept in touch with him?

MRS NGOMANE: No, I couldn't get in touch with him until he had to come back.

MR LEWIN: So if I could just make clear.  You were forced to close down the butchery and then did you stay on with your other five children, on your own?

MRS NGOMANE: I was afraid, because I was threatened that they were going to kill me. I opened and I tried to sell again, but people were warning me that I should not continue selling because they would kill me.

MR LEWIN: So how did you exist in that time while your husband was in prison?
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
7 MRS S N NGOMANE

MRS NGOMANE: There was nothing I could do.  The only assistance I got was from the Council of Churches.

MR LEWIN: Well, thank you very much. If I could now ask Mr Ngomane, your husband.  Mr Ngomane, if you could please explain to us and fill in the middle parts of your wife's story.  Can you hear me?
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to welcome you to the hearings today. Yours is a very sad story and is in fact one of the problems in our country.  Before you begin to tell us your story I am going to ask Mr Hugh Lewin to ask you to take the oath.

MOTSO ROMBENA NGWENYAMA: (sworn states).

MR LEWIN: Mr Ngwenyama, I will be leading you in your evidence this morning.  We would like to thank you for coming and to welcome you as the first witness this morning.  It is always difficult to be the first in the chair, but please feel relaxed, you are here amongst friends.  You are also here to tell us a story which takes us back much further than anything we have yet heard in this hearing.

MOTSO ROMBENA NGWENYAMA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Just get comfortable with the ear-phones.  Is that okay?

MOTSO ROMBENA NGWENYAMA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: You will be telling us of what happened in 1963 which is very ner the beginning of the time period that the Commission actually functions.  What I would like you to do please, is to tell us in your own words your story, and be as full as you like in telling the details, because it is a story that we need to know in detail.  If we could leave it to you.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-05

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Sir, for having brought to us a story which, as you have indicated, that it makes your life very difficult.  Your whole family hasn't healed because of the dark areas that go with the story.  I just also want to assure you and to say please, you should understand the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, that it is an independent body.  We are not concerned about any party or organisation in terms of worrying about who is implicated in human rights violations. We have got our own independence, and we also we want to assure you and many others, that it is an important process in this country, that has been created through the Truth Commission, for people to come forward and without any fear of intimidation and harassment, to say what they went through, which in their own minds and their souls, think is tantamount to a human rights violation.  Irrespective of who was involved in the perpetuation of that act.
 Your request is humble enough and they are in line with our thinking, within the Commission, that in this country, we will have to have symbolic burials, places where people can go on a regular basis, to visit their loved ones.   We are thinking that it will be proper and appropriate in cases of those people who are known to have died and supposedly who were buried with numbers, to recommend that their bodies be brought back to this country so that the members of their family can get an opportunity of offering them a culturally appropriate burial. 
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
6 MS N M NKAMBULE
 So we thank you very much.  Your wishes will be taken into consideration in looking at our reparation policy, which is a way of promoting healing and reconciliation.  Thank you very much.

SIPHO MOSES NKAMBULE: Thank you. I would like to add something before I leave here.  What about the means of communication?  Whenever you have furthered the matter and you have received something, how are you going to contact me then?

CHAIRPERSON: We have the particulars of all the people who have made the statements. If their particulars have changed, please get in touch with our statement-taker, to make sure that we can access you with ease. Because even our investigative unit, they will be following up some of the cases.

SIPHO MOSES NKAMBULE: Thanks very much.
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMULANGA
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-03

CHAIRPERSON: Well I want to say to you that you are young, you are bright, you have survived and I urge you to take hold of your life, to find a target and aim for that, and if it's nursing, go for it.  Don't let anything stop you. Make something of your life, don't be a victim for ever because it wasn't your fault.  You were just a youngster, you were caught up in all the happenings at that time, there were some very evil things taking place in our country. We have now moved and we are very very hopeful that young people like yourself and your friends can make a new start and give new courage for a new South Africa.  I hope you will be able to do that.  Thank you very much indeed, it's not easy to come and speak in front of all these people, and we are very grateful to you. We hope you go well, thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Roos, we would like to welcome you to the hearing of the Truth Commission today.  As is our usual practice, we have asked a Commissioner to assist you, and Mr Malan will administer the oath and will assist you with your evidence as well.  Thank you.

MR MALAN: Good afternoon, Mr Roos.  You may take off the head phone, because I don't think you are going to be needing it until question time.  Welcome, thank you for coming.  Just before we proceed will you please stand to take the oath.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: (sworn states).

MR MALAN: Thank you very much.  You may be seated.  Mr Roos, thank you very much for having driven all this distance to come and participate in the process of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  If we do not get the information from all angles of the conflict we wouldn't be able to have a complete picture.  We know that in certain circles that there is resistance to the Truth Commission. You are going to tell us about a landmine explosion, slightly more than 10 years ago, which led to the death of your spouse and your child.  I would appreciate it if you could tell us the story in your own words.  We have read your complete statement and we thank you for having given us all supporting affidavits, and whatever other documentation
you made available to us.  If you could just take us through the whole process again, to give us as coherent picture as 
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
2 ROOS
possible.  We would appreciate it.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MR LEWIN: Mr Roos, I would also like to thank you for having come here and I hope that there are more people that will come forward to come and testify before the Commission.  I would like to ask you, this explosion, was it the only landmine explosion in the area that you knew about?

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: No, earlier that afternoon at approximately four o'clock there was a landmine explosion nearer to Nelspruit
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
14 ROOS
on one of the roads and we heard about that explosion at church.  Apparently nearly an entire family was wiped out. In later years, until 1990, for example, we heard about incidents at the border where landmines exploded and in the Trompsburg area and such places where such incidents took place.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for sharing your story with us.  It is one of the many gruesome ones which come through the history of our country and which happened because of the conflict here over the last number of years.  Unfortunately land-mines don't know race, political affiliation, gender, they have no feelings, and yet they affect everybody equally and with the same kind of devastation.  One of the sad things though in our country is that this is still allowed to go on, and whilst we do not have them being planted here, they are being used in other countries, with great devastation, because they maim people. We are sorry to have heard your story.  We hope that we can be able to answer some of the questions which we have asked, and in fact, the political parties have already through their submissions, begun to address some of the questions that you are raising. But obviously there are a number of others which they will need to deal with as well. We hope that South Africans will put pressure on this government to ensure that land-mines, particularly, do not get used in countries anywhere around the world.  Because they prevent people from utilising sometimes the only resource they have, land.  We hope that you will also add your voice to that. You are resilient and
we are happy that you have shared this story and we thank God that you have your faith which has kept you so strong. 
NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
15 ROOS
Thank you for coming today.

JOHANNES PETRUS ROOS: Thank you very much. My last request, may I say a prayer for South Africa while sitting here, Mr Chairperson?  Do I have your permission to say a prayer?
 Dearest God, thank you that we can be here and praise you this afternoon.  Thank you for being a living God. Thank you Lord Jesus that you are the one who knows and that you are the one who can determine what happens to everyone. Oh, God, we pray this afternoon for this Commission, and we pray for people that have to sit here and give evidence, that you will give them the necessary support and strenth. We pray oh, God, for this country. We pray oh, God, that you will grant us peace in this land and that You, oh, Lord, will be recognised as the Almighty God. I ask this all through the name of Almighty God.  Amen.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-03

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mdudli, if I may ask just one question. Could you please, although you weren't there, could you please tell us exactly where this land mine was, it's not quite clear, was it on the main road or was it off, on the farm road?  And how far from the main road was it?
NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
 
6 SEGAGE

ALIYA ANNIE SEGAGE: It was on the road, the road leading to the farm.  It might be from this point I'm sitting up to the road outside.  When I went there there was nothing at all. We were just a family to go and investigate what had happened.  There were just pieces here and there and the family members gathered the pieces. The pieces belonging to this child.

DR BORAINE: If there are no further questions, all I want to say is, that I tried to say earlier, that the victims of the conflict in our country were both black and white, were young and old, were men and women and even children.  And this is what is so sad and horrifying about the results of conflict and violence.  Many many of the people who were killed were innocent bystanders.  Your daughter that took a lift was with her child and she never came back.
 We have listened to you very carefully. Our hearts go out to you, you have our sympathy and we will do what we can to find out more about what exactly happened and also to see if there is any way in which the Commission can be of assistance to you.  
 I want to thank you very warmly for coming today and I hope and pray that you will go with God and that he will give you the grace and the assistance which you are going to need as you continue with your life.  Thank you very much.

ALIYA ANNIE SEGAGE: I also thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-03

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Eck, the story you have told is like a nightmare.  It's a horror story. It's a story of a family who in the midst of holidaying, having fun, watching game, was suddenly blown to bits.  To lose a wife, daughter a son, NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
15 VAN ECK
friends, to experience damages to your own body, which you still have today, to lose your business, your farm, is one of the most horrifying stories that we have heard so far in different parts of the country.  What you have illustrated for us today and for the country is the horror of war.  The waste, the stupidity where young and old lives are devastated because people simply couldn't simply come around a table and talk and find a way forward.
 A little later on you're going to hear, if you are able to stay, that other people were blown up in landmines, equally innocent, young, black.  There's no name on the landmine, I think that's what you are telling us today, there's no name on the landmine, innocent people have been deeply hurt and whatever explanation is offered, from either side, no one can take away the horror and the stupidity that this country has gone through, and one of the things that we are trying to do is to make sure it never happens again.  If your testimony today can be heard in this hall and can be heard throughout South Africa, that we cannot afford to use violence, either for political ends or for criminal ends which we are experiencing today, and you are a witness to the total blindness of such an act. And therefore we are very much in your debt. 
 As my colleague has already stated, we have taken note, not only of your witness and your story but also the questions, the very difficult disturbing questions that you have raised.  We will not hide those questions.  Those questions will be taken to the people you have asked us they be taken to. We will ask them to give answers. There will be many questions in this dark night that South Africa has gone through.  We hope that through you and through many others, NELSPRUIT  HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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the sun will begin to shine, some of the light will come back, we hope that you in your own life will have some measure of restoration.  
 And finally, you yourself have said that your strength does not come from yourself, but it comes from God who has been a constant companion to you and is your strength today, and I trust that you will continue to rely on that and go forward in your life. Thank you very much indeed for coming.

JOHANNES FREDERICK VAN ECK: Thank you Dr Boraine.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-10

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Sithole, thank you very, very much for coming and telling us your story today.  As I said to the previous witness, Sergeant Nene, there were many young people who, in their anger about apartheid, they often did irresponsible things which resulted in their being sent to prison, and your son did something in terms of which he felt he was making a statement against the system that was prevailing at the time.  He was a very young person at the time, and he was arrested and he was sentenced for this, and he spent some time, as you have told us, on Robben Island, where you visited him twice and learned from him why he did what he did.  He served his sentence and he came home, and we have learnt how sad it must have been for you that he was only with you for four months before he died.
Now, you've described to us the circumstances under which he died, and it is clear that you are not satisfied with those circumstances, and from what you have told us -without looking at the court record, but from what you have told us, it does seem suspicious, and it is possible that he was taken to that place and he was deliberately killed.  We don't know that, but I am sure that is what you want us to investigate, to find out the real circumstances under which he died, and we will try and do that.  We have an investigative unit, and we will try and take those steps and see if we can find out what really happened there.  
With regard to yourself and your personal circumstances, we will make recommendations to the Government as to how we think that you should be assisted.  In the meantime we thank you again very much for coming and telling us your story.  Thank you very much indeed.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-11

WITNESS:   There was some violence in that place.  There was a certain place called Umlazi where certain youths were staying.  That is the IFP youths.  They were staying at Nxumalo's place, and there used to be sporadic outbreaks of violence.  What I have submitted in my statement I haven't yet said.  I am just giving you the background of what was happening.  There's a certain youth who was staying just next to my place, and he apparently was the boss - it's about the eighth house from my place -of the Inkatha youth which was harboured at Nxumalo's place.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... name.

WITNESS:   I don't remember his name quite well because he was a youth, but he was staying at Masibini.

MR LAX: Thank you.  If you could then move on to the details of the story about your son's death and the attack on your home and so on.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-11

WITNESS:   I do not have the money to visit psychologists or psychiatrists.

COMMISSIONER: We shall try by our own means to see as to how we can help you so that you can be seen by social workers, psychiatrists, as well as psychologists.  In certain places at the Free State the Minister of Health gave us permission that whenever there are people who need help, just like you, we should contact his department, and such people can be rendered help quite timeously.  So you can be helped as far as psychologists are concerned.  How did your husband die?

WITNESS:   No, he was sick.  He had asthma.

COMMISSIONER: There isn't much that we can say besides that whatever we have promised.  We shall try to make a follow up and try to keep in touch with you.

WITNESS:   One other thing that I am leaving out is the destruction of my household contents.

COMMISSIONER: We have already taken note of that, and that will take quite some time to be sorted out because we still have to file a report that is going to be submitted to the State President, Mr Mandela, together with his Cabinet.  Then they are the ones who shall take a final decision as to how people like you are going to be helped and assisted.  That is beyond our powers.  We cannot grant you or promise you anything, but we do have that in our report that you need some help with regard to your possessions.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible) ... you very much for waiting all day to tell us your story.  It's a sad story that we've heard, and we've heard many, many stories like that from parents like you who have lost their children, or whose children have been disabled or assaulted, and you are another one of those people.  You have told us that as a parent you tried to do the best for your son, and you did take him to the clinic and to the hospital as soon as you could, but it seems that he was so badly injured that he became permanently disabled from the assault.  And he was disabled as a result of ignorance and intolerance.  He was assaulted because he held views which were different to the views of the person who assaulted him, and we really wonder how that person feels to know that he has ruined the life of another human being.
But we are glad that you are still strong enough now to come and talk to us today, and, as Mr Dlamini has said, we will be making recommendations to the Government to see how you can be assisted.  So we thank you very much for coming in and telling us your story today.  Thank you very much.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: (Incomplete) ... period of localised struggles.  In Mpumalanga, where "kits konstabels" played a significant role in the violence.  In Fredville, where out-of-control youthful comrades generally intimidated and wreaked havoc in the area.  In Imbali we saw a reign of terror by an 18-year-old gunman called Mweli, who was subsequently charged and convicted.  There was significant violence in the Imbali township.   The Progressive Federal Party alleged in Parliament that Sixiso Zuma had killed at least 25 people, and yet received no response from Adriaan Vlok.  Zuma has still not, to the best of my knowledge, been convicted of any such offence.
In Edendale there were many refugees from Vulindlela whose hobby was to stone buses from Vulindlela carrying workers to Pietermaritzburg.  Community leaders complained about the lack of action, and about the need for the refugees to return.  Again there were failed peace negotiations.  In July there was another huge outbreak of violence in Mpumalanga.  Heavy machine guns were used, vast quantities of ammunition expended.  Again the complicated role of police who do not take sufficient action against perpetrators of violence.  There was violence in rural areas.  
On the 19th of November there was an Imbizo at which UDF, COSATU and ANC were denounced by the king and Chief Buthelezi.  Immediately after that there was a massive upsurge of violence in Mpumalanga.  People were killed, houses destroyed, and what is particularly significant about what took place on the 27th and 28th of November is that much of the action was witnessed by highly reputable witnesses, alleging police collusion.  An indication of the devastating scale of the conflict can be seen in the fact that the housing manager for Mpumalanga said that 1 000 houses had been destroyed or damaged since the beginning of the year.

INTERPRETER: In 1989 violence continued because police were removed from the township because the community didn't like them.  Violence went on to Mpumalanga, Hammarsdale, Nchanga, Vulindlela, Imbali.  Violence continued.  People were dying.  Guns, heavy machine guns, were used to kill people, and in all this time no one was being arrested.  Houses were burned in one year.  Sometimes after rallies, like imbizo rally, people were killed.  In one event Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi and the king called imbizo and people were killed, and afterwards people continued killing each other.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   Yes, I went there, but I couldn't make one.  I went to the lawyer, and the lawyer told me that the case has now expired because it's been a long time.

KHOZA MGOJO: What were you doing at Plessislaer?

WITNESS:   No, I just went there to fetch the number, the case number.  I don't know how I got hold of it because I was with someone who was accompanying me, so he helped me.

KHOZA MGOJO: Your husband had friends, good friends at KZP, the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   Yes, he had friends.

KHOZA MGOJO: I mean real good friends?

WITNESS:   No, I can't say that because he used to have many friends, so I don't know whether these were true friends or just colleagues.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was there anyone who came like offering help?

WITNESS:  No, there wasn't.  They said they don't know.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... the police and they die there's usually a pension that is payable to their beneficiaries, the people that are dependent upon them.  Have you had any pension from the police?

WITNESS:   No, I never received anything.

MR LAX: You've said that you got a case number from Plessislaer.  Do you have details of that case number at all?

WITNESS:   I think I lost it, because I looked for it a previous day and I couldn't find it.  I think I lost it.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... for you.  One last question.  Was your husband involved in any political organisations at all?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... was that?

WITNESS:   IFP.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Ngwenya, thank you again for being so patient, waiting the whole day - it's now half past five, you're the last person to give evidence today - and telling us your story, again the loss of a loved one, and again shot by the police.  We will do our best to trace the docket relating to your husband's death to try and find out why this happened if that is of some assistance or comfort to you to try and understand why this happened.  We will also, as my colleagues have said during the course of today, we will be making recommendations to the President and to the Government as to how people like yourself, who have lost breadwinners, how they should be assisted by the Government.  We can't tell you that now because we don't know that ourselves.  It's up to the Government to decide what assistance, rehabilitation or compensation in whatever form it is proper or appropriate to pay to people like yourself.
So again thank you very much for coming in and sharing your story with us.  Thank you.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... from the death certificate as well it is shown that he was born on the 23rd of August 1931.  Is that incorrect?

WITNESS:   That is correct.  Maybe I am little bit confused, but that's more probable.  I am not very sure, but that's more probable.

MR LAX: If you could please proceed and just tell us about the events that happened on that day, the 17th of May 1990, as far as you know them.
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL: (Sworn, States)

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  Brigadier Swanepoel, you were due to give your evidence tomorrow, but we have agreed to accommodate you because we understand that you have to go off abroad on official duties tomorrow, or to meet with foreign visitors, and we've agreed to have you in today.  We were going to have an Afrikaans translator in from tomorrow, so we apologise that we don't have one for you today, and we thank you for giving your evidence in English.

WITNESS:   Not a problem, Sir.

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  Also the subpoena which was served on you to come and talk today was unfortunately for some reason only served on you yesterday.

WITNESS:   Yes.

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  It should have been served on you last week, and you were not able to give us a written summary of your evidence.  Nevertheless we understand that you are just going to - you have put something together and you will be telling us about the perspective of the Defence Force from that time.  (Pause)  Sorry, we're having a couple of problems with the translation service.  Brigadier, can you then start by telling us what position you held in March 1990, and how the Defence Force - I think it was Group Nine - was structured.  We're going to suggest that you put the earphones on so that you can hear my questions in English without being disturbed by the Zulu translation.  Can you hear me through the earphones now?

WITNESS:   Thank you. Good.  Thank you.  Right, if you can then just start giving us an account of what position you held, briefly how the Defence Force was structured here, and then go on to tell us your account.   ---   Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen of the Council, first of all thank you for allowing me to appear before the Council today.  Is it okay?  Not working?

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  Sorry, we're just going to get earphones for ourselves because we can't hear above the Zulu translation.  I apologise for the delay.  (Pause)
Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   Yes, of course.  If you look back at any situation it may have been a good thing to do, but the fact is it didn't happen that way, and I believe there must be a number of reasons why it didn't happen that way.  And on the matter of, you know, knowledge and intelligence, I think that most of the things are experienced on the ground level and decisions are taken there within the broader framework of, you know, the plan.

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  No, I understand that.  My final question for you, and it really is my final question.  What do you know about Operation Doom that we've heard about?

WITNESS:   Operation Doom?

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL:  Correct.

WITNESS:   I don't know of Operation Doom.

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL: Thank you.

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL: Brigadier, thank you for giving us your account.  What you've had to say has been very revealing.  We don't hold you personally responsible, but I think it's evident from what we have heard you say, and from what we have heard other witnesses say, is that the people who died,  and whose property was destroyed, were let down by the

JOHANN MATHYS ADAM SWANEPOEL: Defence Force and by the South African Police.  I think that really is all one can say at this stage.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   Thank you, Sir.