Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-06-23

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Amabumvu killed him, they took him from his car he was from work during the day and they killed him.

MR MALAN: Was this Thulani Mdlala?  Or is this a different Thulani?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: A different Thulani, this one is Thulani Mbaso.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mngomezulu, apart from the intervention of Mr Blade Msimande and Mr Harry Gwala who apparently then were members of the SACP, was there any intervention by the ANC hierarchy with regard to the peculiar situation in Wembesi concerning this conflict between your organisation and Amabumvu?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I think Mr Mkhize according to me, he contacted the Natal Midlands, the people from Pietermaritzburg and I think what he did was actually accurate because every time we had problems we were reporting to them in Pietermaritzburg but I comprehend the gist of your testimony to be saying that you were not entirely satisfied with the intervention of Mr Gwala whom you suspected to be siding with Amabumvu.  Did you not do anything to take issues further up than Mr Gwala whose intervention you were not satisfied with?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As I've already explained to the Commission that Mr Mkhize decided to resign as a Chairman.  He decided to give up on this whole issue and they brought someone called Mr Magesa to take over.

CHAIRPERSON: When did Mr Teaspoon Mkhize resign as chairperson of the ANC in Wembesi?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I think it was in 1994 the very same time when we had problems with the SACP.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it before March '94 when this incident occurred, that is the killing of Mr Phewa?  I'm referring to the Phewa the one you are here today for, I don't know whether it's the son or the father?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I think at that time Mr Mkhize had already resigned, was no longer a chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: And who had taken over the reins of chairmanship after his resignation?  You've mentioned a name and I didn't take it down.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Mr Magesa, he's the one who was a chairman when I was arrested, he was an acting chairman in fact.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he appointed by the community or recommended by the national leadership of the ANC to act as chairperson after Mr Mkhize's resignation?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: I cannot be certain but this is what I heard that after Mr Mkhize had resigned, Mr Magesa acted as a chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe, do you have any questions to put to Mr Mngomezulu?

MS THABETHE: Yes Madame Chair.  Thank you Madame Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Did we interrupt you whilst you were in the process of cross-examining?

MS THABETHE: Yes Madame Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Our humblest apologies.

MS THABETHE: Taken.

MR MALAN: Ms Thabethe, if I remember correctly you said we had already asked all the questions, you had only the one left?

MS THABETHE: I've got more questions from what has arisen, yes thanks.
	When you killed Christopher Phewa, did you regard - or at the time when you killed Christopher Phewa, did you regard Amabumvu as a political opponent or as a political ally?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: As I've already explained before that generally I know Amabumvu as an ANC alliance except for the group of Amabumvu which resided in my area but I personally, I thought that these people who called themselves Amabumvu, they were using the name of the organisation to reach their objectives, their personal objectives.

MS THABETHE: As an opponent?

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabethe, you both are making it very difficult for the translator to keep up because whilst we are still listening to her translation I think the applicant continues to gather speed speaking and I don't know how she has been able to cope with the ground breaking speed at which the applicant has been giving his evidence but I think she has been translating very well.  You please must try and accommodate her abilities, she can only do so much so please you have the advantage unlike the applicant of being able to listen to your headphones and you can hear when she's still busy translating and don't put a question to Mr Mngomezulu while the translation is still going on.  You may proceed to put your question.

MS THABETHE: I'm indebted Madame Chair.  Should I repeat my question?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Now what I was trying to ascertain from you Mr Mngomezulu is I understand you regarded the SACP, the organisation as an ally of the ANC but I'm talking about you now at Wembesi when you actually, at the time when you actually killed Christopher Phewa because you see, what I'm trying to ascertain, you're saying SACP, you saw SACP as an ally to the ANC generally but at Wembesi you saw it as a political opponent so my question was when you killed him did you believe to be directing your act towards a political opponent or a political ally, that's my question to you?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: The SACP from Wembesi were my enemies.

MS THABETHE: My section question is when you killed Christopher Phewa did you in your belief or did you believe that you - okay let me rephrase my question, when you killed Mr Phewa, were you in any way pursuing any objective of any organisation, political organisation or ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you kill Mr Phewa?

MS THABETHE: Thank you Madame Chair.  Do you understand the question?  The question is why did you kill Mr Phewa, did you think by killing Mr Phewa you'll be achieving any political objective on behalf of your organisation which was the ANC?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: My main objective was I wanted to gain peace between the ANC and the SACP.  In the morning of that day that had killed the uncle of my co-accused and at that time I was still angry but our main objective was to bring peace and to bring the two organisations together.

CHAIRPERSON: You want to take it up Ms Thabethe, I suppose?

MS THABETHE: Yes.  And by killing Mr Phewa, how did you think that peace would be achieved in your area?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: What I thought as a bodyguard of Mr Mkhize is that I know that if a political enemy comes to you with war, that's what you should use as well to fight war with war.  I told myself that if they are coming with war we were going to come with war and then if they fail or if we fail then we will sit down and talk about our different issues.

MS THABETHE: Did you regard Mr Mkhize as your leader at the time when you committed this offence?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: There are two Mkhizes, before I can answer I need to know which one you're referring to?

MS THABETHE: Teaspoon.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes I regarded him as a leader who can take us forward or was supposed to take us forward and I trusted that he was going to bring development in the townships.

MS THABETHE: You see why I'm asking this question it's because I'm trying to reconcile what you've just said, you said Mr Mkhize promoted peace in the area, he said you shouldn't fight, that's what he told you, isn't it, as an ANC organisation?  He was promoting peace as your leader.

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes I do agree.

MS THABETHE: Now you've also given evidence to the effect that when you actually killed Christopher Phewa he was no longer the leader in the area, there was somebody else who had taken over, Magesa, that's correct as well?

HAPPY AUBREY MNGOMEZULU: Yes I said so.

MS THABETHE: Sorry, let me just finish my question so that you can answer accordingly.  My predicament, I'm trying to understand why you decided not to listen to Mr Mkhize and why you decided even after he had left the ANC as the Chairperson why you did not stop what you were doing as he had advised you, why did you continue to fight the other party when he had advised you not to do so?