Human Rights Violation Hearings — Zeerust — 1997-05-06

RUSSELL ALLY: And do you continue to go to hospital for any, for any treatment still, or are you on medication of any kind ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I'm on medication.  I collect my tablets at the clinic.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did you ever have any counselling ?  Did you ever have anyone come and speak to you about what happened and go through these events with you ?  Did you have anything like that at, at any point?  A social worker or a councillor or a nurse, anybody speak to you about what happened to you, explain to you the meaning of all of this?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I didn't get social workers but I met social workers in Johnnesburg, because I was sent there  by the lawyers.

RUSSELL ALLY: And the social workers in Johannesburg ?  What did they do ?  Did they speak to you ?  Did they ...

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, they spoke with me, then they took me to general hospital.  Before I went to Johannesburg, I went through  to Johannesburg General hospital through the lawyers, then they took me to a specialist and then from there I was taken to the social workers.  Then the social workers sent me to the General hospital in Johannesburg.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you have any contact with the social, with social workers now ?  Do, do you still speak to anybody ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I don't speak  to them by now.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now tell us about this with the lawyers.  Is this, are these the lawyers who are representing you? Have you laid charges against the former Boputhatswana police?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: After we were shot, we were arrested for public violence, then we were taken to hospital.  After coming back from hospital, I was sent back to prison.

RUSSELL ALLY: Sent back to prison on  and how long did they keep, how long were you in prison?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I don't remember how long but I think it's four days.

RUSSELL ALLY: You were charged with public violence.  That was the charge against you ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I was charged with public violence.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you ever have to appear in court ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I did appear in court.

RUSSELL ALLY: Tell us about that, what happened?  You had a lawyer representing you and, and, and  others who had been charged, is that not so ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I was represented by a lawyer.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you tell us about what happened in court ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: We were found guilty about public violence.  We  were sentenced for five years but they were set aside.

RUSSELL ALLY: So it was a suspended sentence ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: That's, yes, that's  true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did you have to pay any fines or anything like that ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: No, I didn't pay any fine.

RUSSELL ALLY: In your statement, I was trying to see the name of the lawyer.  I don't see you mention the name of the lawyer.  Can you remember who the lawyer was. who represented you ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: We were represented by  Mam Rebenbach.  He stays in Zeerust.   Reben, Rebenbach.  If that is a clear pronunciation.  Breyt, Breytenbach, I believe.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now this suspended sentence, for how long  was it suspended because you know, when they normally do this, they say five years suspended for eighteen months, for one year, can you, can you remember more specifically the actual sentence after you were found guilty?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: We were sentenced for five years.

RUSSELL ALLY: Right, that was suspended.  Right ? The five years was suspended?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, it was suspended.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you remember if they said for how long.  In order words, if you commit something similar in a year or two years, you can then get the five years.  That's how it normally works.  Can you remember, if you can't, that's fine because we can get those details from the lawyer.   If you can't remember then don't worry.  If you can then  that is helpful to us.

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: ................ five.

RUSSELL ALLY: OK.  And did you ever consider laying a charge yourself, against the police for, for what happened to you?   Did you ever discuss with your lawyer for example ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: No, we didn't.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you know who these policemen were, who came and fired ?  Can you, would you be able to identify any one of them, more than one ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I will not identify them, because it,  the situation was confusing.  I saw  some policemen in court.

RUSSELL ALLY: You, didn't know any of them at the time and you still, and you say now, you wouldn't be able to, to name anyone or identify anyone?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: The one I know is Captain Masisako.

RUSSELL ALLY: Where is this Captain ? ... (interrupted) Where is he, where is based ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: He was at Motsweti police station.  I don't know where he is now.

RUSSELL ALLY: Can you tell us a little bit about your present situation now.  How do you cope ?  How do you survive ?  Who provides for you ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I'm struggling in life because I'm sick, I'm not able to work for myself and that is not possible because of my health state and at home they're struggling also.

RUSSELL ALLY: Who do you live with presently ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: My mother and my sisters.

RUSSELL ALLY: And  they take care of you, your mother and your sisters take care of you ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: That's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And you personally, what that you hope can be done  in your situation ?  When you came  to the Truth Commission, what is it that you, why were you coming to the Truth Commission ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: My desire is financial help.  Maybe I'll forget the problems I have.

RUSSELL ALLY: And what about schooling ?  What standard did you complete at school?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I passed the standard three.

RUSSELL ALLY: And then you stopped going to school ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I stopped.

RUSSELL ALLY: Why,  did something happen that made you stop ?  What ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: We are struggling at home.  We're living, we're living below the bread line, therefore they didn't have means to take us to school.

RUSSELL ALLY: Any political issues or community issues what ...

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I'm still politically active.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you very much.  I'll give you back to, to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Professor Meiring.
PROF. MEIRING: Only two very brief questions.  One is to do with your emotional state.  You said that you are still emotionally very disturbed and you're not receiving any treatment at the moment.  Would you like treatment ?  Do you feel that you need treatment for that ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I'm in need of help, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: ...................... is at night ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, I have bad mess, at night.
PROF. MEIRING: And just a last thing.  You mentioned the name of George Segwati who was shot on the very same day as you were shot.  Was he killed ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: Yes, he was killed.
PROF. MEIRING: Do you know if his parents or if his family have made a statement ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I don't know, Sir.
PROF. MEIRING: Can I ask you, if you have, if you still know where the people live where the Sekwati family live, that you will advise them that we would like a statement from them, telling about their son ?

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I know where they're staying.
PROF. MEIRING: Then we ask you to please go to them and say that we would like to have a statement from them.

JOHN MOKGATLANYANE: I'll do so.

CHAIRPERSON: John, thank you very much.  Is there anything else you want to say ?