Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-04

KHOZA MGOJO:  Are there any members who were affected psychologically or healthy, physical health?

WITNESS:   No, we are well, except for the fact that we lost my son.

KHOZA MGOJO: We heard everything you said.  We will take your request and your wish will be taken to the President and the President will look at it and the Government will be the one who decides what to do for you, but we've taken everything down, everything that you told this Commission.  We have taken a note of everything and we will take everything to the Government and the Government will see what to do.  We thank you for coming and relating your story to us.  I'll pass it over to the Chairman.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mrs Mnyaka, did you ever attend any court case of any sort, where the death of your son was talked about?

WITNESS:   No, there was never any court case.

CHAIRPERSON:  You said in your statement that ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   I was never told, but maybe my daughter-in-law appeared in court.

CHAIRPERSON:  Did you go to court at any stage about your husband's death?

WITNESS:   (Lindiwe Mthembu replies)  There was never any investigation or inquest.  There was never a court case.  I was never in court at all.

CHAIRPERSON:  Finally, you said that your son was attacked and killed because he was employed at RBM - that's Richards Bay Minerals?

WITNESS:   (Mariette Mnyaka replies)  RBM.

CHAIRPERSON:  Was that common in those days that people who were working at RBM would be attacked?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was common that everyone who was working at RBM was going to be killed, because they were believed to be ANC members.

CHAIRPERSON:  And who was attacking or who was encouraging them to be attacked?

WITNESS:   We don't know.  IFP members, because we were ANC.  We were just divided by where we stay.

CHAIRPERSON: 2B/0 Thank you very much.

KHOZA MGOJO: Just one question.  How do you know that IFP killed them?  How do you know them if you didn't see them?

WITNESS:   Because they were killed at IFP area.  That area where they were killed, it was IFP area.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you.

PROF MAGWAZA: You also mentioned that there was someone who came and fetched your son to go to Mthembu's house.  Do you know this person or the name of that person?

WITNESS:  No, we don't know.  We only heard after he died.  What we're relating here is something that we were told.

PROF MAGWAZA:  I would like to ask you, Lindiwe, because you didn't relate that much.  You said you are receiving a monthly grant from RBM company for the kids.  Is this grant going to take care of the children until they are old, do you know the cut-off line?

WITNESS:   (Lindiwe Mthembu replies)  Yes, they said they'll give one child R100,00 for his or her education and for maintenance until they go up to matric.  R100,00 each until they are 18 years and then after that there will be nothing.  I won't be receiving anything from them.  This money is too little.  I can't afford.  R100,00 is too little.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Another thing that I would like you to explain to us is we heard Mnyaka saying that you are well.  We want to hear from you how this thing affected you.

WITNESS:   Yes, it did affect me badly and my children are still asking for their father.  I'm still staying in that house alone with the kids.  I'm missing him.

PROF MAGWAZA:  It's natural for you to feel this way.  I would like to ask you one last question.  We feel very bad, we, as the Commission, if we meet people who are young like you and facing hardships like this.  Don't you think it can be good for you to find a job and work, so that you help your family and yourself?

WITNESS:   I don't know.  It's really difficult for me to find a job, because I'm not educated. Even if you can try and make things, but if you aren't educated it's really difficult.  I'm staying at home and I'm doing nothing and I'm relying on this grant and it's really difficult for me to find a job.  Some people who are educated don't even find a job, so for me it's even worse.  I'm still ... (inaudible).

PROF MAGWAZA:  What standard?

WITNESS:   I left school at standard 5.

PROF MAGWAZA:  You heard about RDP, that the Government is trying to help people like you to help themselves.  Don't you think it can be a good idea for you to join this organization or those projects?

WITNESS:   Yes, I can.

PROF MAGWAZA: Thank you very much.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you try to sell things like your mother-in-law?

WITNESS:   No, I'm not, I'm sitting at home doing nothing.  The person who is selling things is my sister-in-law, not me.  I don't even have the money to buy the stuff so that I can sell that stuff.  The money that I'm receiving is only enough to buy food for the children.  Most of the time when I have to buy the things to go and sell it, it's when I don't have the money.  I only have money to take care of my children.  When I receive the money, it gets finished same time.  I don't have the money to buy the stuff to sell.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Professor Magwaza has mentioned something - you've mentioned something to her.  Are you seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist or social workers?

WITNESS:   No, I'm not.  No, we never even tried to go to them.  We don't even know where they are, so we never went for assistance.

KHOZA MGOJO:  If you can know where they are, can you go for assistance?

WITNESS:   Yes, we can. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs Mnyaka, Lindiwe.  Thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today.  You have both lost someone who is very dear to you, your son, your husband, and we were very glad that you were able to come here and sit together and to give each other comfort on stage.  We know that the people of this area have suffered very badly - people from Sokhulu and other areas around Empangeni, Esikhaweni, Sundumbili.  We know that there's a high degree of political intolerance in this area and we hope that the work of the Commission can start to change the attitudes of people and your stories are very important, because they tell us of that intolerance.  So we want to thank you very much for coming in today.  You were both brave.  You were the first people on stage today, which I know must be difficult for you.  Thank you very much.

WITNESS:   Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN

CHAIRPERSON: 1B/0

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Mrs Msane.  We welcome you here, can you hear me and understand me?   Can you hear me?  Can you hear what I'm saying?  Are the phones working at the moment?  Can she understand me?  Perhaps she can try the other one.  Is that any better, Mrs Msane?  Can you hear me now?  Thank you very much.  Sorry about that.  You are the mother of Siphiwe Khumalo and you have come to tell us about his death in 1992.  Before you tell us that story, could you stand up to take the oath?

ZIBUYUSILE MSANE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Dr Magwaza will now assist you in Zulu.

PROF MAGWAZA: We greet you, Mrs Msane.  Are you well?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

PROF MAGWAZA:  We appreciate the fact that you are here with us today to relate the story of your son.  In a statement it's written that two people were killed.  It was Siphiwe and Lotha Khumalo.  Are these your children?

WITNESS:   Lotha is my husband.

PROF MAGWAZA:  I would ask a few questions about your family.

WITNESS:  We are residing at Sokhulu.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Your husband, when he was killed, how old was he?

WITNESS:   No, I don't know.  I can't tell his age.

PROF MAGWAZA:  How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have six children.

PROF MAGWAZA:  How old are they?

WITNESS:   One was born in 1969, the other one 1974, the other one 1976 and 1980.  The other one was born in 1982.  The last-born was born in 1988.

PROF MAGWAZA:  Out of these six children how many are there still at school?