Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-18

UNKNOWN: Yes there was a report.  They say left the cells together with the police for the hospital. The police
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came back alone and they said he had died on the way to the hospital.  Well on their return they had his clothes in their possession.  They said that the cure is not in his clothes.  The police were asked, where the underwear was, because this person had worn underwear, but the police said, no they are not his family members, only family members can ask such questions.

MS MAYA: Now did you receive the underwear that the police took? In what condition was the ....(tape ends)
(tape 18) ....part of his body was the blood from?

UNKNOWN: No.  Well after that the post mortem report was released.

MS MAYA: Do you understand the contents of the post mortem?

UNKNOWN: This post mortem report explained exactly that Mbuyiselo died from a certain disease.

MS MAYA: Did they say he fell sick and he died? Didn't they explain that he was injured?

UNKNOWN: They said he was sick and nothing and that would account for his death.

MS MAYA: Well did they try to open an inquest?

UNKNOWN: Yes the attorney general said a request will never be made, because this person died of natural causes.

MS MAYA: That was the end of the story, no inquest, nothing?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MS MAYA: Were there other plans that you tried to carry out so that you can understand exactly the cause of his death?

UNKNOWN: Well I left everything in the hands of the people who were arrested with him.  After they indicated
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that the attorney general refused an inquest, I left everything.  An internal inquiry was conducted.

MS MAYA: Your appearance before the Truth Commission shows that you have a wish?

UNKNOWN: Yes I have a wish about my husband.  I want to ask the Truth Commission to investigate, firstly, Mbuyiselo had asthma, the police knew this and they still arrested him in that condition.  They knew that a person with asthma will not be in good conditions here in East London.  The police let him stay here in East London. I want to ask the Commission, if a person is arrested, doesn't he have any rights?  Because he would have asked for a transfer to Queenstown.
 The second point, why didn't he receive treatment for such a long time?
 Thirdly I want to understand, this underwear, if he really died because of flu, why was his underwear full of blood?

MS MAYA: You talked of stones.

UNKNOWN: Yes it's a problem.  When we switched on the TV, and we saw the graves of the strugglers having tomb stones, especially this young child, she would ask when I was going to erect a tomb stone for her dad.  Every time this question comes, I don't have any answer.  I wish that I can. I know I'm one of those widows, and I wish I can erect a tombstone.

MS MAYA: Do you think that there is anything that we have left out?

UNKNOWN: Yes there is something that I want to add.  I had two children with Mbuyiselo, the first one as I've already indicated, is Nomawande who was also very active.
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He said to me, "I will start where my father ended".  I was really scared because if there was a meeting somewhere he would rush off to that place.  He went to Bisho and came back. He passed away last year after being stabbed to death by a friend.  I'm left with Lungiswa for whom Mbuyiselo really had a lot of love.  Before his death he wanted me to bring her so that he can see her, and I said no every time as I didn't think it was the right time.  
 As I've said he loved her so much, he wanted everything beautiful, everything nice for these children.  He wanted to give them education.  Lungiswa, I understood and I came to the conclusion that I would take her to school because her father wanted that.  She is now at the Cathcart High School, I'm also studying this year because I felt that it is important that I should upgrade my education.  Well I cannot reach up to his wishes, even at school I'm a very bad payer.  Every time she has an envelope that would be telling me that I'm a bad payer.  I have a wish that the Commission would please help me with this child so that she can carry on with her education.  Thank you very much.

MS MAYA: Thank you.

WENDY ORR: Mrs Songelwa, may I just ask you one question? The white man in the prison who was asked for help, does anybody know his name?  When your husband had that asthmatic attack?

UNKNOWN: Those who can help with that question are these who are right next to me.  I didn't hear the name of that person very well from them...(she confers with her companions)...They say his name is warder Els.

PANEL MEMBER: I'd like to ask you concerning the attorney general deciding there was no need for an inquest, but there was a departmental inquiry. Is that right?
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UNKNOWN: Yes, internal inquiry.

PANEL MEMBER: Right and this was an inquiry involving a certain individual, a certain person.  Do you know his name?

UNKNOWN: No I do not know the name of the person.
   May I ask this question from these two gentlemen who are here now?  This internal inquiry was in connection with the negligence which was made by the medical officer who was supposed to give treatment to my husband.  It was Mr Crouch.

DR BORAINE: Indeed?  And you had no report as to what was the result of the inquiry?  You never heard anything more?

UNKNOWN: No I didn't hear anything thereafter.

PANEL MEMBER: Mrs Songelwa, I would just like to make sure I understand properly. Your husband was a sentenced prisoner, he had been convicted of political offenses?  He wasn't detained without trial?

UNKNOWN: No he was not yet sentenced, he was just detained and never sentenced.

PANEL MEMBER: I see, thank you.

UNKNOWN: Yes there were questions which were asked in court.  They were awaiting trial at the time.

DESMOND MPILO TUTU: Did you know what they were charged for?

UNKNOWN: It was terrorism.

MR SANDI: I just want to find out, who was your attorney in this case?  And what did your attorney say?

UNKNOWN: The attorney in this case was Sangoni and Partners.  He would keep on telling me that the case ended up the was I've mentioned.  There was an internal inquiry conducted because of the medical officer who didn't attend to his medical treatment.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mrs and you gentlemen, thank you very much for your presence here.
 We will have a tea break, can we please stand up.