Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 2000-02-14

MR DEHAL: I just want to take you back to your wife's statement, this page 18.  You've agreed with the contents of the last three paragraphs, excluding the paragraph that says
"I know and understand ..."
... without counting that, the last three paragraphs.  You agree with that?  You don't remember.  Sorry, maybe I should ask it differently.  You see this last paragraph here of your wife's statement, where she says -
"I believe that the deceased was killed because he was found in the ANC area while he was residing in the IFP area.  Even though I know that the deceased did not belong to any political organisation, I think that his death was politically motivated."
You recall I read that like I did with the preceding two paragraphs and you admitted, you agreed with them?  You remember that?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Yes, I do agree with that because my brother was not politically involved, but he was killed in an ANC area.

MR DEHAL: Right, so those were going to be my questions - that was going to be my first question.  So he was killed in an ANC area, and the second question is this, you will not dispute that any person in the ANC area looking at your brother coming from the IFP area, would have correctly have regarded him as being an IFP supporter, for he resided in the IFP area?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: At that time a person from Ehlanzeni, if they were found in those areas, Dangani and Mcina, they would be killed because they were regarded as IFP members.

MR DEHAL: As in the case of your brother, correct?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: As it happened to my brother.

MR DEHAL: Yes.  So that inasmuch as on your version your brother was not an IFP member, the fact that he lived in an IFP area, seen from the perspective of a person living in the ANC area, would have made him an IFP supporter and given the violence between the IFP and the ANC at the time, it would have been reason to kill him as a political act, is that what you're saying?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: That is so.

MR DEHAL: I have no further questions of this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DEHAL

JUDGE DE JAGER: As far as your last question is concerned, am I correct in saying that what you've put, this last question, isn't the version of your own client?

MR DEHAL: Sorry, Mr de Jager, I don't follow the question.

JUDGE DE JAGER: That wasn't the reason why your client killed him, according to his own evidence.

MR DEHAL: Correct, I agree it is not, but at the level of argument it becomes necessary to establish his mental intent.  Thank you.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson.
	Mr Mbukazi, where were you employed during 1991, I mean during 1992 when your brother was killed?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I was employed in a panel-beating firm in Jacobs.

MR MAPOMA: How far is that from your home?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: It is quite a distance, it's very far.

MR MAPOMA: So you were just on holiday at that time when this occurred?  Do I understand you?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: So would it be fair for me to say to you that you were not averse of the activities of your brother during 1991, because you were not staying with him at home?  Because you were for the greater part of the year at work.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I do not understand you because I worked in Jacobs, but I resided at home.  My brother was young and he would inform me of his activities because I was his elder brother.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you go from home to Jacobs to work every day?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Even today I work in Brickfield Road and I travel from Umkababa to Brickfield Road every day.

MR MAPOMA: But you did not answer the question from the floor.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I was trying to make things easy.

MR MAPOMA: How old is the child of the deceased and Alzina?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: For the reason that the child does not stay with us I cannot be certain, but I think the child is about four.

MR MAPOMA: What is the name of the child?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Mlungise.

MR MAPOMA: I suppose it's a boy.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Yes.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination?

MR PANDAY: Just one question in re-examination, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Mbukazi, the Power School, in what area is it?  Is it in the IFP area or the ANC area?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: It's in an IFP area.

MR PANDAY: Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY

JUDGE DE JAGER: May we just clear up this, you said his child is about four years of age, would that be his age now or would that be his age at the time when his father was killed?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I think at the time the child was two, but he stayed with his mother so I cannot be certain of his age.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Well if at that time he was two years old, then today he should be ten years old about.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I would not dispute that because I do not stay with the child.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where your brother spent the night before he died?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: When he left home he was going to his girlfriend's home.

CHAIRPERSON: And you've told us your father celebrated the night before, did you join your father in the celebrations?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: The homestead was big so we were in one hut and they as the elders were in another hut.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR DEHAL: Could I, Mr Chairperson, a question arising.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR DEHAL: Thank you.
	You said on the night before your brother had left to go to his girlfriend's home, did he return to your home and stay with you or did he not?  That is the night before he died.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Please repeat that question.

MR DEHAL: The Chairperson asked you
"Do you know where your brother spent the night before he died?"
... and your answer was -
"When he left home he was going to his girlfriend's home."
My question to you is, do you know whether he returned from his girlfriend's home and stayed at your home or did he not return that night before he died?

JUDGE DE JAGER: Perhaps you should start off and find out at what time did he leave for his girlfriend, was it the previous night, during the night or the early morning.

MR DEHAL: Fair question.
	You've heard Mr de Jager's question.

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: He left at night.

MR DEHAL: Yes, at about what time?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: I cannot recall the time, but it was at night, it was already dark.

MR DEHAL: And can you tell whether he returned thereafter and if so, at what time?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: As I mentioned before, I last saw him on that day when he went to his girlfriend's home.

MR DEHAL: No sorry, as I understand you, you say the night before the day he died - he died on New Year's Day, the 1st of January, and the night before whilst it was dark he left to his girlfriend's home, is that your version?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: Yes, he informed us that he was going to Alzina's home.

MR DEHAL: And then on the morning of the 1st of January, your version earlier was that at about seven thirty, eight o'clock you last saw him because he was on his way with Alzina to the market.  This I presume was at your house, correct?

FREDERICK MFANAZOTINI MBUKAZI: That's correct.

MR DEHAL: Now when did he return to you house, because that night before he left to his girlfriend's home, when did he return?

CHAIRPERSON: He didn't leave his girlfriend's, he left for his girlfriend's home.

MR DEHAL: Indeed, sorry, perhaps the syntax is incorrect, I apologise.
	When did he return from your girlfriend's home to your home?