Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-01

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, for me too.  I have never been present where a person was assaulted with a sjambok while the person was interrogated.

ADV BOSMAN: Did anybody make a remark about this while you are saying that, while you are conceding that it is strange?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, nobody told me anything about this.

ADV BOSMAN: And you also don't know whose sjambok it was?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Chairperson.

ADV BOSMAN: Then the disposal of the corpse.  I cannot recall that you testified whether there was a specific reason given to you why you had to dispose of the body in the circumstances where somebody had died of natural causes.  My impression was, from your evidence, was that you accepted that you had to dispose of the body and that you had just drawn inferences as to where you had to drop off the body.  I want to just ascertain, did anybody state a reason to you why you had to dispose of the body and who?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, from Botha and Taylor's discussion, I drew the inference that the person had to be left there so that she could be found.

ADV BOSMAN: You have been asked as to why the idea was that she was supposed to be found.  If she was found shortly after the body was disposed of there, would it have come to your knowledge?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Not automatically Chairperson.  I never inquired about it.

ADV BOSMAN: That is what is somewhat strange to me, that some people would, that one would expect that if a person, if a body is disposed of and dropped off somewhere and it was found and you never hear that the body was found and one would want to ascertain if the information didn't come about and one would do some research.  Why was no research or inquiries ever made?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It might have pointed fingers to us, Chairperson, if we went and inquired at the police station and then persons would ask, "Why are you inquiring?".

ADV BOSMAN: Yes, I think that would be the obvious answer, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax, do you have any questions you'd like to ask?

MR LAX: Thanks Chair.  If I could just immediately follow up on what Adv Bosman's put.  Is it not so that you could have asked questions in a way that didn't point fingers at you at all?  If, for example, a known terrorist co-ordinator's gone missing, you're looking for her.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, there were possible methods, but we did not do it.

MR LAX: You could also have, through your informer network, asked questions.  You didn't do that either?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson.  An informant would have created the idea that I had killed the person.

MR LAX: Why would it do that?  You already had informers who were telling you about her activities.  If she suddenly went missing, the most logical thing to do and for them to assume, would be to say "Where's this woman disappeared to?"  Why would that point to you killing her?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I know that Capt Botha gave the askaris instructions to do some inquiries.  I don't know specifically what the inquiries were that they did, but I know that they inquired afterwards.

ADV BOSMAN: I have to interrupt my colleague, somewhat.  Did you have access to the registers in the mortuary, for example, in the state mortuary?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I could have gone there and inquired there.

ADV BOSMAN: You would not necessarily inquire there, you would have consulted the registers, wouldn't you?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: A person at the state mortuary would have asked me what was the reason for my visit.

MR LAX: With respect, Lieutenant, sorry Major, if a Lieutenant arrives at the mortuary asking just to look at the registers, you could have given anybody any reason under the son, to just check through the mortuary's registers.  It wouldn't really have pointed in any way at you.  You're looking for missing suspects, you're looking for missing informers.  You're looking for all sorts of possibilities.  Surely that's ...

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That is true Chairperson, but I did not do it and this unfortunate incident was placed behind me.

MR LAX: You see, that's the answer that I would have expected from you.  The one you've just given is the one I would have thought the most likely answer.  You put this thing behind you, you didn't think about it again.  You weren't worried about anyone pointing - any fingers pointing in your direction at all.  The fact of the matter is, you didn't think about it again, you put it behind you.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR LAX: Now, the place where you dropped the body off, where you off loaded the body, you've said to us that it was a busy place during the day.  There were taxis there and there were other ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: He said it was on a taxi route.  I didn't get the impression that it was a taxi rank, yes.

MR LAX: I'm just trying to understand what you mean by it.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: It was the Inanda highway.

MR LAX: Capt Botha gave us to understand that there were people that walked past this spot, or maybe you did, maybe I'm getting confused.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: During the day, yes.

MR LAX: And where would these people be walking to or from as a matter of course?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: From Inanda in the direction of the city or to kwaMashu.

MR LAX: Of from Ghandi Settlement or from all the other places round there?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Correct, Chairperson.

MR LAX: So it wasn't an isolated spot?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, it was not.

MR LAX: Because you were asked a question whether there were any buildings around there and you said no, there were no buildings in that vicinity.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR LAX: Were there not shacks and things in that vicinity, in the area, or within reasonable close distance of that area?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No, Chairperson, in later years it was built, but at that stage it was an open field.

MR LAX: Now ...

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Lax, while you're just on that.  Could you give an approximation about how far the nearest building was from the place where the body was dumped.  Are we talking a matter of 10 metres or half a kilometre, what ...(indistinct - talking simultaneously)

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: I would say 300 or 400 metres.

MR LAX: One thing puzzles me here about the arrest of this lady and at the point which you people arrested her at Battery Beach, did you, you didn't give the impression that you were arresting Mbane or any of the others who were with her?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: No Chairperson, not that I can recall.

MR LAX: Why not?

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, the manner in which she was taken, she would also not have known what was going on.  I cannot recall that we tried to create the impression that we also arrested them.  This person was arrested in such a manner that she must have been, or she was only aware of her own arrest.

MR LAX: With the greatest of respect, if the others were not arrested contemporaneously, or at least an effort made to give that impression, she would immediately know that she had been sold out by them, or that they were participating in her abduction or her arrest.  That's pretty obvious, isn't it.

SALMON JOHANNES GERHARDUS DU PREEZ: Chairperson, I did not think that.  She may have possibly thought that.  My opinion was not that she would know.