Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 2000-06-12

MR COETZER: Thank you Mr Chairperson and Members of the Committee.  I am Riaan Coetzer working for the firm Vermaak and Denis here in Bloemfontein and represent Mr Sam Odendaal, the son of the deceased in this matter.  I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Coetzer.  I think there's a lady next to you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chair, I am Lulama Mtanga the Evidence Leader for the Commission.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may proceed Mr Mbandazayo.

BONGANI KHUMALO: (sworn states)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Khumalo is it correct that you were born on the 25th of May 1968 in Bethlehem?

BONGANI KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Am I correct that you grew up in the Orange Free State Province?

BONGANI KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How far did you go at school?

BONGANI KHUMALO: Standard 7.

MR MBANDAZAYO: In which year did you leave school?

BONGANI KHUMALO: 1986.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now, to which organisation do you belong?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I'm in the PAC.

MR MBANDAZAYO: When did you join PAC?

BONGANI KHUMALO: In 1990.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Where did you join it?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I was in Phuthaditjhaba, Qwaqwa.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Who recruited you into PAC?

BONGANI KHUMALO: It is Daniel Makara.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Were you at any stage a member of APLA?

BONGANI KHUMALO: No.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now you are applying for amnesty for an incident that happened in 19 - sorry Chairperson,

ADV SANDI: 1992.

MR MBANDAZAYO: For an incident that happened on the 25th December 1992.

BONGANI KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you tell the Committee why did you - why were you involved in this incident?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I do not understand.  Which incident Sir?

JUDGE DE JAGER: Was it on Christmas Day in 1992?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson?

JUDGE DE JAGER: Was it on Christmas Day in 1992?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Chairperson according to -  ...(intervention)

MR COETZER: Can I just correct you?  It was the 25 February 1992.

MR MBANDAZAYO: 5th of December.

MR COETZER: 25th of February 1992.

MR MBANDAZAYO: About the incident that happened on the 25th of February 1992, how did you become involved in that incident?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I was sent by my Commander Daniel Makara.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes.  What did he say to you?  Where did you meet Daniel Makara and when did he give you whatever instructions to go there?  Let me start - where did you meet Daniel Makara?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I met him in ... (no sound coming through)

MR MBANDAZAYO: So you were recruited by an APLA member to PAC?

BONGANI KHUMALO: That is so, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: He did not recruit you into APLA

BONGANI KHUMALO: He recruited me to the PAC.

MR MBANDAZAYO: How often were you meeting with Daniel Makara after he recruited you?

BONGANI KHUMALO: He used to frequent Qwaqwa, especially for the PAC meeting.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now did he ever speak to you about operations of APLA or anything during your meetings with him?

BONGANI KHUMALO: No, he did not often talk about them.  In short let me put it this way, he did not talk to me about them.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now then on the 23rd of February according to you he came to you?

BONGANI KHUMALO: That is correct.

MR MBANDAZAYO: What did he say to you?

BONGANI KHUMALO: He explained the issue of attacking farmers, white farmers.  He wanted me to lend a hand to assist the organisation for what was needed.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, continue.  In what sense, to assist the organisation in what sense?  What was needed in the organisation?

BONGANI KHUMALO: He explained to me that the organisation wanted firearms, anything that I could lay my hands on at the farms where he sent me and he asked me whether I knew the place he was going to send me to.  He asked me whether I knew the ...(indistinct) area.  I told him yes, I know the area.  He then explained to me that he wanted me to go and assist there in the farmers around that area and he said:  "Well, you will choose the day you want to go, that is if you have found a suitable time."  In other words, the place I was going to, I was not provided with a weapon.  How I was going to carry out the instruction was on my shoulders as to how I get there.
	When I arrived at this farm at Riets, that's where I met Jabulani Shabalala, but his other name is Dladla and this is the person I familiarised myself with at that farm and I wanted information about a white man called Odendaal as to what did he have, what was going on because it looked like he had been employed at that farm for quite a long time, but at that time there were not many employees.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Khumalo, when is that?  You told us that you met Daniel Makara on the 23rd, when did you go and see Dladla now, was it the same day?

BONGANI KHUMALO: I went on the 24th, actually it was on a Monday.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Okay, was this Dladla working on the farm?

BONGANI KHUMALO: He was not working at that time but he had previously worked on that farm, according to what he told me.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Can you then continue?

BONGANI KHUMALO: Let me start from the 24th and that's when I acquainted myself with Dladla.  I spent that night.  The next day, on the 25th in the afternoon, that is from the morning of the 25th - let me say that from the 24th in the afternoon I actually told him how we wanted to get there, because I knew that always when you go to a person in the company of someone who knows, that person would not be suspicious of anything, that is why I decided to take him with me, but he was going to be a spy, he was going to be someone who will look, he will watch the situation as I proceed with my

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Khumalo, Mr Khumalo, you know you are racing.  I hear my interpreters battling to keep pace with you.  Could you, whilst testifying, give them a chance to interpret because we all want to hear what you are saying?  I realise that your nature is to speak fast, but could you put it in second gear for a while and give them a chance?  Thank you, you may proceed.

BONGANI KHUMALO: Okay.  On the 25th I reminded Jabulani Shabalala that he would stand at a post when I get at Odendaal's place.  We agreed with him and we were going there at 5.30 because the girl who worked there, Anna Magwa, we knew that she knocked off at 5.30 as well as a person who was mingling the cows there.  In other words, two people were employed there. Now half-past five was the time Id discovered that these people would have left.  Now I was taking him with me so that should it happen that anything disturbs me, then he would inform me quickly but he did not know my mission to that area.  Yes we went there and everything went according to how we planned it.  We went in at Odendaal's place.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Did Shabalala know that you're going to kill this man?

BONGANI KHUMALO: No, he did not know.

JUDGE DE JAGER: Thank you.