Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-11

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I think generally everyone was scattering, people were scattering in all directions to the effect that there has been a shooting at Lancet Hall and I decided to go and see what the situation is at Lancet Hall and I proceeded to Lancet Hall.

GEORGE BIZOS: How far is Lancet Hall away from Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: It's two streets up southwards.

GEORGE BIZOS: On what street is the main entrance of Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: Plein Street.

GEORGE BIZOS: I beg your pardon, Lancet Hall.

GARY JOHN KRUSER: It's Jeppe Street.

GEORGE BIZOS: Is there a garage entrance to Lancet Hall.

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That's correct, I think it's in Von Willieg Street if I got it correctly, I'm not sure.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what were you told, or what did you see when you got to Lancet Hall?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: On arriving in Jeppe Street I noticed an ambulance parked a bit east of the entrance into Lancet Hall and went to have a look what was happening there.  I saw medical people treating two people, I don't know whether they were injured or they were dead, but they were surrounded by medical people and I then proceeded into Lancet Hall.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you speak to anyone in Lancet Hall?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: In the foyer of Lancet Hall I met a few of the Lancet Hall security people and we discussed, and I asked them what had happened there, we had a discussion, and the conclusion we came to that these people were injured in the process of them attacking members in Lancet Hall's entrance.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did what you saw and what you were told affect your state of mind as to what might happen at Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I think it further cemented the intelligence or the information I received, that the IFP was intent on attacking Shell House.

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you know whether that attack at approximately 08h00 in the morning was reported to the police?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I was not aware then, but ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The attack on Lancet Hall?

GEORGE BIZOS: Lancet Hall.  On Lancet Hall, Mr Chairman.

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I was not aware then, but I'm aware of it now.

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you now know that it was reported?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That's correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: By whom?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: When we were busy with the inquest it come to light that the police tried to go into Lancet Hall and tried to investigate the matter.  I read it, or in discussions when we were doing preparations for the inquest it came to my knowledge.

GEORGE BIZOS: And what did you do when you returned to Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: On my return to Shell House I proceeded to brief the Late Commissioner Gadu who was when I came into his office busy on the phone trying to get assistance from the police.  We then had a discussion about the information which was available to us from our intelligence organs and he then gave me instructions to try to find members of our Intelligence Department and also arm them and deploy them together with the rest of the security members.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you have any discussion about any further information that may have come in?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: We did discuss briefly around that thing, but the urgency was to get more people and firearms down to the bottom.

CHAIRPERSON: The people they were supposed to arm, were they people from the Intelligence Unit of the ANC, or were they people from the Security Unit?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: Maybe I should just explain, Mr Chairman. Our department was a department of Intelligence Security.  It consisted out of four sectors, we had a Security Department which dealt with physical security, VIP protection and vetting and those sort of things.  Then we had a Counter-Intelligence who dealt with counter-intelligence as I explained, and then we had the Intelligence which dealt with gathering of information, then we had the Processing Division which processed all the information and did analysis of it.  The decision we took was to involve, which was not unusual even at big rallies, we involved everyone from the Department of Intelligence and Security who were all trained in security.

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you know what your Chief, Mr Gadu did, whether he phoned the police?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I said he was busy phoning the police when I came into his office and when I spoke to him he also continued to get assistance from the police throughout the day.

GEORGE BIZOS: Do you know whether he was given any assurance?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I don't recall exactly at this time.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you issue out firearms?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That's correct, Mr Chairman.

GEORGE BIZOS: Where were those firearms?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: They were held in our armoury on seventh floor in Shell House.

GEORGE BIZOS: When had you obtained most of the weapons in Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The weapons arrived on Friday the 25th, late afternoon, and again on Saturday the 26th, the morning of the 26th most of the weapons arrived from the gun dealer.

GEORGE BIZOS: For what purposed were they ...(inaudible)

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The weapons were purchased for the purpose of election security for the ...[inaudible

GEORGE BIZOS: And were they going to remain at Shell House or were they going to be sent to the regional offices?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: The purposes of the weapons was to be distributed to all 14 regions and from there to the sub-regions.

GEORGE BIZOS: Were they locked up at Shell House in safety on Saturday 26th March and Sunday the 27th?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: That's correct, we had an armoury on the 7th floor.

CHAIRPERSON: When were they supposed to be distributed to all these regions?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: As soon as possible.  As soon we would get firearms in, as soon as we would get licence from the police, we would fetch firearms as they were delivered and we would then contact the regions to come and fetch them to dispatch as soon as possible.

GEORGE BIZOS: Were any steps taken to try and find out what was going on near Shell House?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: Initially in the morning I sent out small units to do surveillance in and around Shell House, also later on we developed surveillance units and commanded to monitor the events of the marches throughout town so we could get feedback what was happening in town and the direction the marches were moving in.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you receive any reports from these people that you sent out?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: One of the reports I remember was that they tried to storm the, I think it was the TEC if I'm correct, building in town and the police shot at the marchers from - I remember that's one of the reports I got.  After receiving that reports I then sent people to our election offices which was in the Carlton Centre because we were then getting scared about all the offices in town.

GEORGE BIZOS: Where was the Independent Electoral Commission's office?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I know it was close to the Carlton Centre.  I don't know the exact address, but I know the building itself, but I don't know the exact address, but it was close to the Carlton Hotel.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you have any thoughts as to why that particular building or that particular office was attacked and required police intervention?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: It made sense to me, it was part of the process of transforming this country into a democratic country and that would be one of the things they would do to stop the elections from taking place.

GEORGE BIZOS: If they succeeded in attacking or destroying the Electoral Commission's offices, that would have served their purposes?

GARY JOHN KRUSER: I think it would have had an effect on the country and the timing of the elections.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you receive information from other people as to what was happening in the greater Johannesburg during the course of the night before or the morning of the 28th?