Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-08

MR MBEKELA: There were organisations, there was a residential association known as GRACA, there was another one which still exists today known as COSAS, there was a womens' league known as the Grahamstown Womens' League which was part of the ANC Women's League, also the youth organisation known as GRAICO and at that stage the decision was taken that these organisations be formed and in 1985, since a decision had been taken at a COSAS conference in 1979 that it is important that a youth organisation be formed known as Youth Congress.  The youth who were not attending school at the time took the initiative and here in Grahamstown a Grahamstown Youth Congress was formed, but at that time there would be organisations for Grahamstown, P E, East London and so forth.
 But because we knew that the battle for South Africa was not a regional battle there was a decision taken that there should be one organisation formed for the entire country because we were not fighting battles for Grahamstown individually or individual regions and that's why in 1980 a meeting was held in Durban where the National Youth Organisation was formed but it was an interim committee.

MR SANDI: We are now talking about the period 1985 and at the time you were a member of the GRAICO organisation here Grahamstown.  Could you just very briefly tell us about that?

MR MBEKELA: At that time Chairperson, I was the chairperson of the Grahamstown Youth Congress.  We at that stage were busy in organising the youth and informing people as to exactly what the people of South Africa wanted, what kind of freedom we were striving for, because if we could remember correctly Mr Chairperson, the logo of the Grahamstown Youth Congress was a trend which showed that it did not necessarily mean that the youth did not want to be educated but it was an indication that we wanted the youth to be educated, that is why we said that in our meetings, and there was also Pickaxe, where we showed that there are workers amongst the youth as well, and that showed in which direction we were moving so that they could see what kind of liberation we were fighting for.  There was also within the logo of the Grahamstown Youth Congress, an assegai, which showed that the assegai was a sign that even when the youth wanted to go for training, the objective was to get rid of the oppressive government, that was why our slogan was Freedom now and not tomorrow.

MR SANDI: Before we speak about the incident of the 25th of May 1985, were there any problems which you encountered with regards to the police or the authorities.

MR MBEKELA: Let me put it this way Mr Chairperson, I could say that I was one of the persons who was more fortunate, I wouldn't regard myself as having been more fortunate than others, I was still very young to have attended school at an early stage.  While others were only at Metutu School at seven years of age, I started school at the age of five and at some stage I went to Durban and I matriculated in 1981.  In 1982 there were problems because even in Durban I did not just rest on my laurels, I came back here in 1982 and  when I got here, I familiarised myself with what was happening, because people were more politically active and that was the last time I led a stable life Mr Chairperson, in 1984 because at that stage I wasn't sleeping at home anymore.  My parents would testify to that because even when I got home I wouldn't even sit down and have a meal, I would have a meal on my feet and I'd been all over the country, Durban, Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth where we were mobilising this organisation.  There was something else which we called scuttling, I would refer to that as township terminology which describes when one has to hide and the police made life unbearable to and extent where they would even break into cars just so that we would be nervous all the time and where they would take you for interrogation and constantly threaten your life.
 I'd like to sketch this very clearly because even when we speak about the spirit of reconciliation we place it in a proper South African political context.  In the same way that I am here today in the situation which I am going to describe, it's just a pity that one of the police, I think it was WO Strydom, died during the State of Emmergency, I don't know if he realised that the situation was beyond his control because when he spoke to me during interrogation, he would want to know when we were going to stop this because they were going to kill us.  There was a day, because I even assisted SAMU which is a workers' union which was led by Phila Nkaye and Tobile Mseleni and the like, and while I was seen there I was still very young.  I was then taken to these buildings which the youth knew as the Carlton Centre and this WO Strydom was there and the others, Fonya and company were also there (end of tape)....and that's the security branch and particularly in Grahamstown as at the time was full of black people who would just sit there and not question you, but they would merely be sent to arrest you. And when it came to interrogation they would just sit there and not participate. I would hate to think that it was lack of intellect.
 We had also organised burial committees and I was representing the youth at the burial committees and at that that stage there was the organisation called GRACA and I was then called in and questioned about this burial committee and there was nothing which we hid.  I explained to them that the intention of the burial committee was to assist the parents of victims because for some people it was very difficult.  In some homes you would find that they did not even have any refreshments or anything and we would send our people to go to the shop and collect money, and some shop owners would even give us food, and Strydom said to me, Chris what we're going to do to you is come to your house. I said to him that I don't have a problem with that. He said, do you know what wer'e going to come and do there? And I said that it was for him to come and tell me. 
 He said that what they would do is go there and sit there for a long time and ask for tea or something and then people would come and attack us after they had left, thinking that I was an informer.  I said that I don't believe that people would be that rash, yes people would do that in the past but they would be able to differentiate between someone who is trying to destroy the apartheid system and someone who wasn't.  They said that the reason why they were telling me this is because they were going to kill me. The reason why I'm saying this is because I know it was very painful even for the Mtimkulu Family and some of the people who are applying for amnesty where some people were denied that. Even Meister who is a supposed leader knew about and knew that it had already been decided that myself and other comrades were short listed to be killed, and on a particular day we left for Rhodes University to some comrades who were studying there.  
 There were three of us and we were intercepted by the  Security Police and there was one gentleman whom I knew at the time and towards our release he was transferred to Pretoria.  They stopped the three of us, they had these search lights which practically blinded you if shone in your face.  They asked us where we were coming from and we told them and they said we were lying and that we would see.  What helped us was that a hippo was coming in our direction and we were saved by the fact that they misunderstood this hippo to be saying that they should go.  If that had not happened I would not have had this opportunity to come and tell you the truth today.

MR SANDI: Mr Mbekela on the 25th of May 1985 when they set your place alight, would you just sketch to us what happened there?