Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-09

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairman, I would like to swear the witnesses in, starting with you Nomtandazo Lydia Kaleni.

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: (sworn states)

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: (sworn states)

MANDLA BROWN KASO: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  Chairperson, they have been sworn in.  Ma'am, I would like to start with you.  Please tell us very briefly in your own words what happened?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: I had gone to work on that day and I used to come back late because we knock off duty at six o'clock.  And only my two grandchildren used to be at home, no adult.  When I got home, my children came to me and said Ma, Veza has been shot.
 They used to call him Veza, they said to me Veza had been shot and there and then I was so upset, I wanted to know who shot at my children.  They said a casper, he had been shot from a casper.  I wanted to know where is he now and they said we do not know if he is at the hospital where our aunt works.
 I worked at the Town Hospital and she worked at the Provincial Hospital.  I walked around in a daze, hoping that a neighbour at least would come and tell me what had happened - nobody came and I did not know where to go, where
to start, who to go to first.
 After my daughter had come off duty, before I gave her a chance I asked her if Velile was at hospital and she said what happened to Velile?  And I asked her is he not at your hospital because he has been shot and she wanted to know who told you - I said well, these children told me.
 She did not know anything about him having been shot.  Not even one of the people in the street or the location ...

REV XUNDU: Just one moment please Ma'am.  I am trying to reach a point of clarity.  I hear what you are saying about the behaviour of the police which resulted in this, which hospital was he taken to?  Which hospital was he taken to?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: He was taken to Alice by the people who took him.  From Alice because he was in a critical condition, he was taken to Cecilia Makiwane Hospital in Mtansani and he passed away at Cecilia Makiwane on the 31st.

REV XUNDU: Did the police ever come to you to tell you about something like this?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: No, not one policeman came to me and I never went to report anything to them.

REV XUNDU: Where was this child shot, was he playing in the street or was he at school?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: They had come from a prayer service at the Apostolic Church, or at one of the churches in the location.  It was on a public holiday and they were on their way home, when a casper passed them, they were close to home.

REV XUNDU: Was there a struggle in which they were involved at the time?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: It was the struggle of the youth that all the youth were involved in at the time.

REV XUNDU: Objecting to their gutter education?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: With regards to his funeral, were there any conditions laid down?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: On the day of the vigil, I was phoned and asked when I was going to bury the child.  The Investigator phoned me and wanted to know when I was going to bury the child.

REV XUNDU: Do you know who the Investigator was?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: I have forgotten his name.  He left.

REV XUNDU: When did you bury him?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: We buried him on the Tuesday according to what they wanted us to do.  I wanted to bury him the Saturday and they refused for us to bury him the Saturday.

REV XUNDU: Were there any certificates which you obtained with regards to the cause of his death?  What did his death certificate state his cause of death to be?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: His death certificate stated that he had been shot in his head.

REV XUNDU: Did you ever consult an Attorney in regard to charging anyone or anyone investigating the matter?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: No.  After the child passed away, I went to the hospital in Alice and I was never referred to where the child passed away.

REV XUNDU: And now that you are here before the Commission, what is your wish or request from this Commission?  What would you like this Commission to do for you?

NOMTANDAZO LYDIA KALENI: I have since left the matter in God's hands.  God will answer my prayers, and I maintain the same today.  I say that God will comfort me in regard to my child.  I have nothing more to say.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Madam.  We know that you are still heartbroken about this, but it seems as though you have told your story completely.  We are now going to go on to Tembile Alfred Swartbooi.  Mr Swartbooi, you are here to tell us about yourself, you were severely ill-treated.  It is clear that in Fort Beaufort and in other places, the police were lawless, they are doing anything, everything to people.
 We notice that this is the same in your story, but I would like you to tell us in your own words what happened to you.

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: I was coming from work, I was working in the Municipality.  It was around half past five, I was going home.  They called me while I was in the yard.  It was late at that time.
 They assaulted me.

REV XUNDU: Who were calling  you?  Who called you from the yard?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: The police called me.

REV XUNDU: They just beat you?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, they beat me.

REV XUNDU: This man is telling us a story, his painful story.  He is not in a cinema, please behave yourselves.  It is not a laughing matter, you are making him a victim although he was a victim before.  They kicked you and you were injured?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, I was injured.

REV XUNDU: You then went to the hospital?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: In which  hospital?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: I went to Adelaide Hospital, they then transferred me to East London.  Even today I am getting
treatment from East London.

REV XUNDU: You got injured that day?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, I got injured that day - before I was well.

REV XUNDU: Was there a case opened?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No, there was no case.

REV XUNDU: Did you get any compensation?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No, I did not get any.

REV XUNDU: Do you get a pension?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: I do get a pension, a grant.

REV XUNDU: By coming here to the Commission sir, what would you like the Commission to do for you?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: ; I would like the Commission to assist me because I am like an old man today, I am still very young.

REV XUNDU: Do you have a wife?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: No, I don't have a wife.

REV XUNDU: Do you have children?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, I do.

REV XUNDU: How many?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: I have two children.

REV XUNDU: In which standards are they?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: They are doing standard 7.

REV XUNDU: You would also like the Commission to assist you to support your children?

TEMBILE ALFRED SWARTBOOI: Yes, I would like the Commission to do that for me.

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir.  Thank you.   Let us now come to you Mandla.  Mandla, you were also a victim of police violence and maybe anyone listening to this history of police violence, will realise that never again should the police abuse their position of power of authority.
 Could you please just tell us very briefly about your assault by the police and if you were a member of an organisation, tell us which organisation you were a member of and what your role was?

MANDLA BROWN KASO: I was at home and I heard shots in the street behind us.  I was struck by a bullet in my eye.  I was then taken by car to Alice.  At Alice I was told that this required specialist treatment and I was taken to East London and for a whole week this object was in my eye.

REV XUNDU: Did you ever lay a charge against the police who shot you?