Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-28

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning. I am Judge Pillay and I read my name into the record for the purposes of identification for the benefit of the typists.

ADV POTGIETER: I am Advocate Potgieter for the purposes of the recording.

MR SIBANYONI: I am J B Sibanyoni and for the purposes of the recordings I introduce myself and I hope my name is distinct they will easily pick it up.

CHAIRPERSON: Will the various representatives do the same for the purposes of the record please? Mr Mapoma which matter are we dealing with first?

MR MAPOMA: Sir we are dealing with the matter of Simpiwe Bleki, amnesty application number 003/96 and Oscar Nongongo, amnesty application number 0041/96.

CHAIRPERSON: Well then only the representatives involved in that matter need identify themselves.

MR WESSELS: I am representing both applicants; Mr Bleki and Mr Nongongo. My name is J W Wessels, Advocate J W Wessels. I am instructed by the firm Nonkosi Munthlanthla and Associates.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Wessels. Are there any introductory remarks that you want to make or any agreements that we should be made aware of?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Mr Chairperson. Mr Chairman sorry Sir for the purposes of record my name is Zuko Mapoma, the leader of evidence for the Amnesty Committee. Mr Chairman we have agreed, myself and Advocate Wessels that the two applicants; Mr Bleki and Mr Nongongo are going to make joint application for the purposes of evidence. And Mr Bleki will testify. Mr Nongongo aligning himself with the testimony of Mr Bleki. That is it Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma just for clarity sake is the victim or his family members present?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Mr Chairman the deceased's wife, Mrs Maliti is here.

CHAIRPERSON: I understand the victim in this matter did not lose his life as a result of the actions pertinent to this application?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson the deceased died some years later after the (...indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: And the application is in respect of attempted murder?

MR MAPOMA: Absolutely yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And certain offences under the Act relating to ammunition and firearms?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you offered any assistance to the family of the victims, should they need assistance?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson I have consulted at length with Mrs Maliti and the other victim.

CHAIRPERSON: And are they aware that you can be approached at any time?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Wessels?

MR WESSELS: Thank you Mr Chairman. I propose then to call Mr Bleki, the first applicant to testify in support of his application for amnesty.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR WESSELS: Your full names Mr Bleki?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: My name is Simpiwe.

MR WESSELS: And your second name?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Lincoln.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bleki are you comfortable with english? You are entitled to talk Xhosa. There are interpreters.

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I will speak Xhosa preferably.

MR WESSELS: Yes. Mr Bleki may I proceed in administering the oath then?

CHAIRPERSON: I will do so.

MR WESSELS: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bleki have you got any objections to the taking of the oath?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: No objection.
(SORTING OUT OF MICROPHONES)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bleki have you got any objections to the taking of the oath?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: No problem Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you stand please?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Be seated.

MR WESSELS: Mr Bleki in support of your application for amnesty you have completed the necessary application form and you have also submitted a detailed affidavit setting out the facts in this matter. Do you confirm that?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

MR WESSELS: During the period 1992 to 1993 and more in particular at the time of this incident which took place on Sunday the 8th of August 1993 at Middelburg what was your position in the ANC at Middelburg?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I was a member of the African National Congress in Middelburg. I was also a member of the self defence unit. I was a political commissar.

MR WESSELS: Is it correct that you were also responsible for the safety and security of members of the Middelburg community?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

MR WESSELS: The victim in this matter, Warrant Officer Leeman Maliti was he a policeman attached to the security branch section stationed at Middelburg?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is correct.

MR WESSELS: Now you have in your affidavit given particulars of the problems and difficulties that you had with the victim. Could you very briefly just highlight what was the nature of the relationship between the victim and the greater part of the community in Middelburg?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: I can do that. I am going to start and say that the relationship between the members of the community of Middelburg and the late Warrant Officer Maliti was not good at all. He was a security policeman. He used to fight against people who fought for liberation, people who were in the struggle for liberation. It was his job to oppress us, to take us to the police station, to beat us up. He would go to our homes as freedom fighters. He made it very difficult politically for us. He made it very difficult for us to reach our goals as freedom fighters in Middelburg.

MR WESSELS: In the past were there any actions taken by the community towards or directed at Warrant Officer Maliti?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes there were a lot of attempts that they made or things that happened that showed the enmity between the community and Warrant Officer Maliti. People would toi-toi trying to show that we were not working together with him. His house was attacked. We tried to show him that we do not want him in our community.

MR WESSELS: And how did he react towards the feeling of the community as shown by the community?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: When he would see a group of people who would be toi-toiing towards him he would go out with his weapon or gun trying to protect himself. He would go raiding peoples houses' that he suspected that they contributed to whatever demonstration there was against him.

MR WESSELS: And is this something that was restricted to a very short period before the fateful day of August 1993 or was it something that was protracted over a number of years prior to that?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: This was over a long period of time before the 8th of August, the day of this incident.

MR WESSELS: Did the victim in the course of those years also detain you personally?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: A number of times, a lot of times.

MR WESSELS: And how did the victim treat you in the course of your detention?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: He was very oppressive, he beat me up. As a result I laid charges on him.

MR WESSELS: Are you aware that some of your co-inhabitants of the township there were also detained by the victim?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Correct, that would happen I am aware. His oppression was not only directed towards me. It was anybody who was a freedom fighter in Middelburg at the time. He did not pick and choose. Youth, elderly people, even old ladies, reverends as well he would arrest.

MR WESSELS: And the way that the victim treated the detainees was this the subject of general discussions there in Middelburg?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes it was terrible his attitude towards the community, we would talk about it.

MR WESSELS: Would it be correct to describe the situation as a situation where the community in general was angry with the victim?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: That is absolutely correct.

MR WESSELS: Did anybody lose his life as a result of the actions of the victim?

SIMPIWE LINCOLN BLEKI: Yes, a lot of people lost their lives because of the victim.