Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-22

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, are we ready?

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, the amnesty application of Steven Vusumzi Dolo, 0320/96 proceeds on the 23rd of April 1998.  Mr Chairman, I understand there's a request by the transcribers that the panel members and the legal representatives identify themselves ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well they wanted them to do more than identify themselves, they want them to talk for some time so they can get to know the voices.  We intended to do that this morning and have a special recording made, but unfortunately as matters developed we did not do that, and I see that Mr Mthembu is no longer with us.

MR PRIOR: Mr Mthembu seems to have a very distinct voice.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, we may think so, I don't know if the transcribers do.  But could we place on record that appearing for the applicant is Mr Mbandazayo.  Would you please put yourself on record.  Describe where you practice and where you come from, and talk for a minute or so.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I confirm that, Mr Chairman.  My name is Mbandazayo and my initials L, that is for Lungelo, and I'm representing the applicant.  And I'm coming from East London where I am practising as an attorney.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Prior?

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, my names are Patrick Charles Prior.  I'm an advocate with the Amnesty Committee.  I'm the evidence leader.  I've been conducting many of these matters with, involving APLA and I think my voice is pretty distinctive from the rest of the Committee.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I, my name is Andrew Wilson.  I am a Judge and the Chairman of this Committee and I think the same applies to me.  I think the people transcribing will have no problem recognising my voice.  I will ask the various members of my Committee now to introduce themselves and say something.

MR SIBANYONI: My name is Jonas Ben Sibanyoni.  While I'm a new member of the Amnesty Committee, but I think my voice is also distinct and I am from Pretoria and from a NGO - Non-Governmental Organisation on human rights.  Thank you.

ADV SANDI: My name is Sikolelo Sandi.  I'm originally from Grahamstown, but I now live in East London.  I'm an advocate of the Supreme Court of South Africa.  Before I joined the Amnesty Committee I was in the Human Rights Violations Committee, that is one of the Committees of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  I also thought my voice is very different to everyone's.  I think that's about all I can say.

MR LAX: Through you, Chairperson.  My name is Ilan Lax.  I'm an attorney from Pietermaritzburg.  Like my colleague Ntsiki Sandi, I was a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee until I was appointed to the Amnesty Committee.  Like my other colleague, Mr Sibanyoni, I'm quite new on the Amnesty Committee, but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest my voice was very distinctive, although I seem to, some people seem to think my manner is quite distinctive.  I think that's enough time spent on this.

CHAIRPERSON: I hope that will assist the persons responsible for preparing the records, but before we go on with this matter, I would like to record something else that has happened today.  My Mbandazayo, at the request of the Committee, and on behalf of the Committee, made contact with Mr Lethlapha Mphahlele, also known as Happy, a person whom he has acted for in the past and has advised on a number of occasions.  The purpose of this was to inform Mr Mphahlele that he was an implicated party in the matter to be heard today, as well as that to be heard next week.  He had already been supplied, as I understand it, with a list of all the matters set down for hearing and was thus fully informed of the matters.  Having been informed that he was an implicated party and to what extent he informed Mr Mbandazayo that he had no intention of appearing and that the hearing should proceed in his absence.  Have I recorded it correctly?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman, I confirm that.  That's what transpired between myself and Mr Mphahlele.

CHAIRPERSON: He was aware of what the allegations against him were, or were likely to be?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Correct, Mr Chairman.  He's aware of the allegations against him.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I on behalf of the Committee as a whole express our gratitude to you for the trouble you have taken today to make contact with this gentleman to inform him of the position and to bring his answer back to us.  It has saved us a considerable amount of time and trouble, and we are extremely grateful.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, the matter at hand, the Lady Grey Police Station attack, as you no doubt will have gleamed from the papers briefly, was an attack on the police station and on the 3rd of January 1992 at Lady Grey where certain members of the Police Force were having a braaivleis a handgrenade was thrown and certain shots were fired.  However preceding the attack the applicant, it would appear, and others acquired a motor vehicle on the Sterkspruit Lady Grey Aliwal-North Road.  It was a vehicle belonging to Mr Funchani and preceding that event another vehicle was shot at on the same road, a vehicle belonging to Mr Andele Mpela.  May I also inform the Committee that as far as the victims are concerned, a schedule has been put before the Committee.  The victims are listed there.  Mr and Mrs, or Mr Roetz and Miss Roetz, Sergeant Martens, his wife and a Sergeant Veldsman.  Out of those victims who have all been notified, only the Martens family responded. They are present at the hearing and they will no doubt make a submission later on, Mr Chairman.  The other victims expressed no desire to participate on these proceedings.  Mr Funchani is not present, however the family of the other person, Andile Mpela are present, Mr Chairman.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, I want to also to put this on record that as I indicated in Chambers that I've just taken over the matter, and as such, Mr Chairman, I will be using the documents which are in the bundle regarding this matter.  And also that, Mr Chairman, as we go along as usual he gives testimony reading the affidavit, he will allow for it as I consulted with him that there are certain things which needed to be put in the affidavit which are not there, as far as I am concerned which are necessary for this application.  But maybe, before I do any other thing, Mr Chairman, may the applicant be sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: If you have any problems don't hesitate to let us know.  We'll do all we can to assist.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Dolo would you please stand.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: (Duly sworn in, states)

MR PRIOR: Mr Dolo can you just speak a few words so that we can just hear whether the interpreters can hear you properly.  Can you hear me properly?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I can hear you.

MR PRIOR: Can you please just come a little bit closer to the microphone.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I can hear.

MR PRIOR: Can you ...(inaudible) now.  We'll just check these loudspeakers.  That might be the problem.
Right, you can hear me?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I can hear.

MR PRIOR: It seems to be connected to the, when they switch the interpreter's mikes on.  Chairperson maybe we should just take a short adjournment while we sort this thing out.  It's a bit difficult, it's just unfortunate.

CHAIRPERSON: I regret that we will once again have to adjourn, but I think you all know why now.
ON RESUMPTION

MR PRIOR: Mr Dolo, just to remind you that you're still under oath.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I'm still under oath, Sir.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Dolo do you confirm that the affidavit which is in this bundle which is before the Committee, this affidavit was made by you and you abide by it?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I confirm.