Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1997-04-08

ADV PRINSLOO: And Exhibit D the plea as set out there, was also accepted by the State except for the culpable homicide charge?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, that is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Harmse, the case served before Judge Els, is that correct?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, that is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: What was the total sentence that you have to serve?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: 18 years effectively.

ADV PRINSLOO: And when were you sentenced?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: 8th of May 1996.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Harmse, to return and to start with your background.  You were born on the 20th of February 1952, is
that correct?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, it is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Just for record purposes, that will then be Exhibit A to which you are referring, is that correct, regarding the background?

ADV PRINSLOO: Yes, it is correct Mr Chairman.  We are now referring to Exhibit A, page 10 as numbered for you.  You also have page 10, Exhibit A in front of you Mr Harmse?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, it is.

ADV PRINSLOO: Will you please tell the Honourable Committee where your political involvement started?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Chairman, my political career started at a very early age.  My father regularly participated in voting and in 1960, I remember there was the old Vierkleur, the four coloured flag, to show that the Boers wanted a republic as it used to be before.

ADV PRINSLOO: And did you or your father attend any political meetings?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, my father regularly attended meetings and I went with him.

ADV PRINSLOO: Did you undergo any military training?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: In 1970 I was called up for service in the SA Defence Force and I received training there.

ADV PRINSLOO: What age were you at that stage?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: I was 17 when I joined the SADF.

ADV PRINSLOO: In the Defence Force, were you informed regarding who the enemy was at that stage in the country or not?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: We were told that the ANC/SACP formed our enemy and we had to fight against them and against terrorists.

ADV PRINSLOO: And were you told at that stage what the plans of the ANC/SACP were, as you stated it, what they wanted to do?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The ANC/SACP's plans were to conduct a revolutionary war against the then government to make the country ungovernable.  We were also told that they are trained in communist countries and that they could thus return and commit acts of terror by attacking Black council members, the South African Police, security forces and officials of the State and eliminate them.

ADV PRINSLOO: You personally, were you against the SACP/ANC as they were known?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: I was totally against that kind of statements to take over the country.

ADV PRINSLOO: In addition to the fact that you had been called up by the Defence Force, did you personally feel that you had an obligation to defend the country, or not?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, I personally felt I had to defend my country against the enemy.

ADV PRINSLOO: The then government, in what light did they regard the ANC/SACP alliance and their words and statements against the country?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: No, they weren't friendly, the then government accepted the ANC/SACP declarations as a declaration of war.

ADV PRINSLOO: And in that light, you were then called up for border duty?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, I served twice on the border and this was in the combatting of terrorism inter alia communism.

ADV PRINSLOO: And where did you serve on the border?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: It was on the Angola border.

ADV PRINSLOO: And were you involved in the war there?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, I was part of the war there.

ADV PRINSLOO: Mr Harmse, during 1990 did you attend any meetings of any specific political parties?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, during 1990 I myself as rightwinger started attending rightwing political parties.

ADV PRINSLOO: Which meetings did you attend, which party's?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Some of the AWB and the BWB, Boere Weerstandsbeweging meetings.

ADV PRINSLOO: What does BWB stand for?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: BWB stands for Boere Weerstandsbeweging, Boere Resistance Movement.

ADV PRINSLOO: What are the objectives of this organisation, briefly?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The aims and objectives are briefly to fight for God, the nation and the father land, to resist against any other people who don't want to allow us our own country, to fight against them.

ADV PRINSLOO: Did the BWB at any stage strive like other organisations to obtain a Volkstaat?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, they did strive for a Volkstaat, their own state, or national state.

ADV PRINSLOO: Where would this national state be situated?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The national state would be the original Boer Republics, Transvaal, Free State and Northern Natal.

ADV PRINSLOO: And the principles of the BWB, Boere Weerstandsbeweging as set out in Exhibit C, which is serving before the Honourable Committee, is that correct?  Do you have it in front of you?  It is the document Programme of Principles, Boere Weerstandsbeweging.

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: That is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: It is page 22, Mr Chairman, chapter C.  Now if we refer to the second page of Appendix C, with the title Boere  Weerstandsbeweging, Programme of Principles, Foundation, was their objective as set out in the first paragraph?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The first paragraph is very clearly the objectives of the BWB, the foundation on which the organisation rested and the guidelines according to which they acted on that stage.

ADV PRINSLOO: To return then to Exhibit A, page 3 as typed at the top there, you referred to meetings that you've attended and you've referred to the aims and objectives, what was your impression around these objectives of the BWB?
Was it a weak set of goals or were they pure?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: They were very pure to me, they were the purest of those of all the organisations and I decided to join them.

ADV PRINSLOO: The meetings which you've attended, those of the BWB, what emphasis was place on these goals by the speakers?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Well the emphasis was always on the fact that we had to combat communism, in other words the ANC/SACP alliance.  We had to fight to preserve our country, our language, our religion and to keep it pure.

ADV PRINSLOO: The speakers at these meetings, can you remember whom they were by there names if possible?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: The main speaker was also the Chief Leader, Mr Andrew Ford and then at various meetings, there were different other speakers, inter alia Barend Strydom's wife and his mother-in-law.

ADV PRINSLOO: Who were the other people in the top
structure of the BWB whom you could mention, members?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: There was a Combat General, Mr Vaughn Bands.

ADV PRINSLOO: And Mr Vaughn Bands, where did he live at that stage?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Mr Vaughn Bands lived in Cullinan, just outside Cullinan on a small holding.

ADV PRINSLOO: And where did you live?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: I also lived in Cullinan.

ADV PRINSLOO: To continue with Appendix A, paragraph 7, do you have that in front of you?  The National Party in 1990 and thence onwards, what impression did it leave on you?  What was their plan according to your interpretation?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: At that stage, the National Party had decided to give over the country to the ANC/SACP alliance.  Mr de Klerk at that stage also mentioned that all religions would become equal and that was something that was totally against the BWB and against my own objectives because we believe that there is only one God.

ADV PRINSLOO: So is your testimony that the BWB was against this?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes, it is correct.

ADV PRINSLOO: And that which you mention here is also the view of the BWB?

PIETER JOHANNES HARMSE: Yes.