Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: They didn't have any knowledge about those settlers we had specific interest in that area of Sterkspruit.  I only told them that we would be attacking certain cars whose occupants would be settlers.

MR PRIOR: You see, why I ask you that, it seems out of all the APLA matters that I'm aware of and this is a very general question, your operations in that area seem to be the only operations that targeted a specific community, a specific business community unlike the other attacks which seem to have been more of a random nature.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Do I have to say something?

MR PRIOR: I just want to know can you comment on that?  There seems to be a different pattern that emerges in your unit's operations during 1992 in the Sterkspruit area, that a specific interest group was targeted rather than random targets throughout the country as it occurred?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It occurred that way.

MR PRIOR: The suggestion that was put last week and I must put it again in fairness to you, were you possibly protecting any particular person's interests in the Sterkspruit area?  A business man for example?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No.

MR PRIOR: Who may have had sympathies towards PAC, who was a PAC supporter?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I said no.

MR PRIOR: The three persons that you mentioned, their names I think it was Pitso, Buyafuti and I there was another person that you mentioned who stayed in the ....[intervention]

MR LAX: Nopise was his name.

MR PRIOR: Nopise.  Do you know whether those were business people, whether they had business interests in that area?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Buyafuti I know him as a business person and Pitso we were using his house as our base and Nopise I knew him that he was an Africanist and he was having a car.
ADV. SANDI: Mr Dolo, should we understand you to say that of the three names that you've mentioned, that is Buyafuti, Pitso and Nopise only Buyafuti was a business man - is that what you're saying - and not Pitso and Nopise?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: To my understanding, Pitso, I don't recall whether -I never heard that he was having any businesses around Sterkspruit.
ADV. SANDI: Just to get clarity on one aspect of the matter here, let us go back to this day of the attack.  If a white person unknown to you driving a vehicle unknown to you had driven past the point where you were planning to be attacking from, would this person have been attacked?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: The person I deployed to act as a early warning was familiar with the cars that were travelling during those hours so he knew which cars he was going to give signs to that we have to attack.

MR PRIOR: Could I maybe try and illustrate that a bit further by an example?  If for example a tour bus with white people were driving over that bridge, would you have attacked that bus?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I take it we would have attacked it if it were having settlers, occupants.

MR PRIOR: Even though they were unconnected to Sterkspruit?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I take it so.  The initiative it would be depending on me.

MR PRIOR: I see, so that would be the decision you'd make on the ground then and there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.  We were there for those specific operations.

MR PRIOR: Yes but you were there to attack vehicles that were going to Sterkspruit specifically?

MR LAX: Mr Prior, what he said, his evidence so far is that the person whose job it was to provide the early warning knew exactly which vehicles what was intended to attack.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: That's you evidence as I understand it?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: Presumably he wouldn't have given you a signal if a vehicle wasn't amongst those came past.  He would have only have given you a signal if it was the vehicles that were part of your reconnaissance and part of your information gathering process and your intelligence.  Those would have been the vehicles you would have attacked?  Do I understand it correctly?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR LAX: Thank you for the clarity, I'll leave it there.

MR PRIOR: I just need to put this to you.  Mr Griesel, the white man, who was in the vehicle, he was in fact the driver.  He was injured in the upper body, the shoulder area and he went to the Sterkspruit hospital.  You don't disagree with that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I don't disagree.

MR PRIOR: He certainly wasn't fatally injured he had flesh wounds which were treated and he was later discharged.  I need to put to you that Mr Ndeleni was also injured, that is the black man.  Do you accept that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't deny that.

MR PRIOR: And in fact when you noticed it was a black man in the vehicle, you called off or stopped the attack, is that right?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And you allowed the vehicle then to pass over the bridge?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Thank you I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRIOR

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
	Sorry, just one point I wanted to clarify.  It is correct is it that you went there about June, July 1992?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chairman, I will call Mr Makoala to the witness stand.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR MTHEMBU

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Makoala is it correct that EXHIBIT D is your affidavit?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: And is it further correct that you have read Mr Dolo's affidavit and you wish same to be incorporated into your affidavit?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct, I read it and I would like it to be incorporated into mine.

MR MTHEMBU: And you also confirm Mr Dolo's evidence in the main?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Yes that is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Now would you please tell the Committee what role you played in this attack, did you fire any shots or not?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I did not shoot in this attack.

MR MTHEMBU: Is there anything further that you wish to tell the Committee or is that your testimony?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I would like to say to the Committee we were engaged in the armed struggle and I was also a soldier and I took orders from my commander.  I was committed because we were really fighting for the liberation of the Africans.
	Comrade Dolo explained already that the war was between the Africans and the Settlers, in other words the oppressors.  It was a fight between the oppressors and the oppressed.  I am not sorry for what I did.

MR MTHEMBU: And is that your evidence?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: That is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Thank you Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MTHEMBU

MR PRIOR: Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: No questions Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman I take it what he said last week is also relevant to these proceedings because - thank you.
	Mr Makoala were you also on this occasion as you were in the Lady Grey Hershel Sterkspruit ambush where Mrs Brummer was killed, were you also the person who gave the signal of the approaching vehicle?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Which attack are you referring to sir?

MR PRIOR: This one that you've asked the amnesty for today, the Sterkspruit Mayaphuti Bridge on the Zastron Sterkspruit border.

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: No it was not myself.

MR PRIOR: Who gave the signal of the approaching vehicle?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: I do not quite remember who gave the signal because these incidents took place long time ago and I was involved in many incidents, I do not remember very well.

MR PRIOR: Is this incident fairly vague in your memory, this particular one?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: Can you repeat your question sir?

MR PRIOR: Is this particular incident fairly vague, you can't remember much detail about this incident?

THABISO JAMES MAKOALA: There are parts where I remember and some I do not remember.

MR PRIOR: Well what weapon did you have with you?