Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-07-01

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Col Roelof Venter came in and told me that White and Grobbelaar were dead.  Then he left the office. At that stage I still was refusing to say anything at all.  They made me stand.  The one policeman shouted at me, ordered me to stand up and I had to stand like that for a long while.  Later he left the office and another young policeman came into the office. He spoke to me in a gentle way.  He left.  The first policeman, the older one came in, I can also mention his name. I think it was Warrant-Officer Tjaart Fourie. He shouted at me and asked me who had given me permission to sit.  He made me stand up again, and just sat and stared at me in a very intimidatory fashion.

UNKNOWN: Let met interrupt you.  Were you given any evidence that White and Grobbelaar were indeed dead?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, at one stage Col Venter came in again and asked me did I still not believe that White and Grobbelaar were dead.  Then he - I think it was two pieces of paper with photographs on them of their faces, very seriously mutilated faces, depicting where they had been shot dead at Nunipoort.

UNKNOWN: What was your reaction when you saw these gruesome sights?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: When I saw that all my resistance crumbled, I began to cry, and then I sat down and then I gave my full co-operation.

UNKNOWN: Then you left on bail. Mr Du Plessis, did you at any stage going through a period where you formally renounced violence as an option?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, during my first amnesty application, I think it was 1992, I formally renounced violence as an option for the purposes of achieving a political objective in this country.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, in 1994 when government changed in this country peacefully, what were your feelings, what were your perceptions about this development?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, it was unbelievable to me. At that stage I was involved in Radio Pretoria, and there was, for example, a Mr Da Silva, who regularly broadcast on that station.  He was of Portuguese extraction. He regularly told of what precisely had happened in 1974 with the take-over in Mozambique and how people were murdered in the streets and I believed firmly that something similar was also going to happen in this country, and that basically there would be a kind of uhuru in this country. When nothing happened, I was amazed.

UNKNOWN: Did this bring about any change in your attitude, in your perceptions, this peaceful transition?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, it made me look anew at my entire attitude regarding our country, regarding what I had been taught throughout my life and it made me question many things. It just before my trial was due to begin, and I was more involved in my court case at that stage.

UNKNOWN: You were found guilty, you were convicted and sent to prison as indicated in your application. Tell us what your attitude is today, how did your political and religious convictions change or grow?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: In September 1994 I was found guilty and sentenced to 12 years imprisonment.  By about December 1994, my wife and I began to experience serious problems in our relationship.  At one stage I just lay on my bed in my cell and cried for three days. I didn't eat, I didn't drink for those three days.  At the end of the third day, the Lord spoke to me and said to me, Jean, all that is wrong in your life now is that you haven't yet given your heart to Jesus Christ.  Then I gave my heart to Jesus Christ.  That was the beginning of a complete reversal, a complete about turn, a process which has lasted for two years until now.

UNKNOWN: Do you now regard yourself as dedicated to Jesus Christ? What do you to express your Christianity?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: In February 1996, I was transferred into maximum security.  I befriended a Coloured person there and we decided that we should establish a church in the maximum security prison.  We began to preach, first in the cell, for three days solid, we preached and then too many people attended. Then we went to the chapel in the prison and from there the church grew.  Every day at half past 12 we held a service, and initially just he and I preached.  But as the church grew other people came in who made themselves available to preach and at the moment I preach once a week.

UNKNOWN: Do you have any support from chaplains or other religious people?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, my pastor, Pastor Jack Armstrong sees us every Sunday or every second Sunday rather, and in liaison with him and various other clerics.

UNKNOWN: How big is your congregation, if we can call it that?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: It is between 20 and 30 people active.

UNKNOWN: Does it give you satisfaction?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, immensely.  It is actually the only outlet in prison, when you are trapped in the flesh, you need to be free in spirit.  The feelings of guilt which wracked me, the feelings of reproach about the people who had been killed, all those negative emotions towards other political parties and other races which I had experienced, all those things I am released from by getting to know Jesus Christ.

UNKNOWN: Now what is your attitude towards racism and the relationship between nations and cultures?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: In the year we started up this church, it was only Black people who were prepared to come to our services and as I grew in Christ, I came to realise that to be a child of God, has nothing to do with do culture, race or language and that anybody who gives his heart to Jesus Christ is reborn into a spiritual nation.  That is the nation I am now striving for.

UNKNOWN: What are your political convictions these days?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: I feel that our country's problems cannot be overcome politically, I do not believe that with the politically economically or militarily our problems can be solved. I believe the way to peace and reconciliation in this country is through Jesus Christ.

UNKNOWN: Right.  What do you intend to do with the rest of your life? Are you studying?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, I resumed my studies.  I enroled for a BA, but I stopped that to study information, political science and communication law.

UNKNOWN: Did you pass your first year?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Are you contemplating completing the degree?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes.

UNKNOWN: And what career are you contemplating when you leave prison?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, I studied Development Administration last year and I will continue with that. I believe that I can make a contribution in this country by building up the people and to try and alleviate ignorance and poverty, especially as regards - ignorance regards religion. I would like to rectify that. I am thinking of doing missionary work, although I am not hundred per cent sure about that yet.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, I know that it is painful for you to talk about this, but your relationship with your wife.  How was it and what is it like at the moment?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Well, we went through our darkest hour during the time I was in prison.  But on the other hand it was only a blessing that I was sent to prison, and perhaps we would never have found out our marital problems, if I had remained outside prison, because I was extremely obstinate in my views.  We grew apart quite badly but during the last couple of months by means of a lot of prayer, God has brought her back to me and we now have a more wonderful relationship than ever before.

UNKNOWN: Are you satisfied that you will make a success of this marriage?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: Yes, I firmly believe that.

UNKNOWN: Will she be able to wait for you if you have to serve a long period of imprisonment, will she wait for you?

JEAN DU PLESSIS: If that is what is necessary, I hope so, I trust so, but it will be very difficult for her.

UNKNOWN: Mr Du Plessis, if you cast your mind back, with the knowledge and experience which you have now, would you have done what you did which caused you to land up in prison?