Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-22

MR NGUDLE: Firstly in 1963 I lost my husband and before he died he just disappeared.  He didn't write, he didn't sent any money I was - I was living with three kids.
We were very poor, we didn't know what to do.  After a while his cousin came - the husband to his sister.  I asked her where is your brother-in-law, and she say no, my brother-in-law is not here, he got arrested.  And I asked her how long is he going to be in jail, then he said no he's been several - he's been arrested several times.
That's when I told him that my husband is not sending any money to me.  After a while, we were still living that kind of life, one day in 1963 September the police came in - in my house where I was living with my mother, my mother-in-law.  They came to tell me that my - Looksmart has passed away.  My mother asked them what happened they said he killed himself, so my mother cried and we all joined her.  And then the police left.  They went back to where they came from, we didn't even know where they were from - was that your home.
In the same week black policeman came in - this policeman said they want us to go Middledrift, myself and my mother-in-law so that we can be given a ticket to Pretoria.  My mother-in-law said I cannot go to Middledrift because I have a small baby, my baby was a month old.  My mother said the person who was going to go there, will be her, she'll be the one to go to Pretoria.  She left for Pretoria, she was given the ticket.  When she got there, she went to the first prison.  When they asked what they can help her with, she said I am here to bury my son.  They asked the name of the son, he said it's Looksmart.
They said she must go to the second prison, when she got there, she was also asked what is her purpose of her visit, she said I am here to bury my son, I was told to come here.  She was also sent to a third prison, when she got there, she was also asked - this was a very tall building.  There were other woman from Pretoria, she was also asked - what is the purpose of your visit, she said I am here to bury my son, I am told to come here.
Then she was told to wait a little while.  They said who is this - name of your son, he said he is Looksmart, he was told to wait.  They are going to come and they are going to take her to an upper floor.  While she was still waiting, she said she is looking for her clothes - for his clothes.  Nobody answered him - her with the question of clothes.  While she was still waiting, she was asked by the other woman what she was doing here, she told them the same story that she was still here to bury her son.
But now in all this prisons I've been told that I should come to this tall building.  What she was told by this woman, was that she must just run away from this place and go to the station, nobody is being buried here, this is where people are being killed.  She must just escape as fast as she can.  And she did that and she took the train and she left for home.
When she got home we asked her were is Looksmart buried, she said no, instead I was nearly killed, they didn't even give - give her the clothes, but he was just advised by this other woman to run away to the station before she gets killed.  While we still sitting at home a telegram came in from Zithobile, her brother he was here in Cape Town.  He said they were still investigating about the case.
What - they said what happened was I am the one who is being wanted now.  Now he sent me money so that I can come here to Cape Town, so I came to Cape Town.  When I got here in Cape Town, I went to Guguletu, in [indistinct] - when I got there to my uncle, the police came, they took me to the police station.  The police asked me what did Zithobile said to you.
I said no he didn't say anything to me.  He said are you sure - they said are you sure he didn't say anything, I said yes I am. They said you are going to go to Pretoria, so I asked who am I going to go with. And they said I am going to go with the special branch and I asked how will I do that when I have a small baby, so they said we will all go, the three of us.  
So we all left to Pretoria, the three of us, including the wife of the special branch police.  When we got there they said Beauty we are going to put you into prison you are going to sleep in this prison because we have no place to - for you to sleep in.  So the police in Pretoria took me so I asked where am I going to sleep, then they said you are going to sleep in this linen room for the police because we have no place for you.  And my child was crying, so I asked what are we going to do with my baby, because she needs to be bathed, they gave me water with a bucket so that I can wash the baby, so I did.
They brought food, I refused it.  I slept in that room until the morning.  In the morning the police came to fetch me telling me they said Zithobile is here with the lawyers, so I left, we went to Court.  In Court I didn't say anything the lawyers were doing all the talking.  They said to me your husband wasn't killed by us, he hanged himself.
They discussed and we - there was just harassment and fighting and squabbling, police were just going up and down, not telling me anything other than that, my husband killed himself.
Afterwards we left, I just saw people leaving, so I also left, I was told that I should also leave hurriedly, the police just said I must be - escape quickly to the station, running away from the police because when they - the police, if the police see us they will - they will shoot us.  So we took a different secret routes, we went to my uncle.
Zithobile left because he was on holiday and I was left in Orlanda, he was the one who was going to - to the Courts.  Because I was too nervous, I can't even tell you what was going on in that Court.  In the third instance, to the Court proceedings, the lawyers said afterwards, they said Beauty, these policeman are refusing with the witnesses in here.
We have lots of witnesses inside, people who saw what was happening, but they simply refuse that the witness should come forward.  I stayed for three months in Johannesburg, only God will answer your case, that's how I came back.  Something else that I have forgotten.  When I came back, I was coming back home, I was told that the boers were keeping on coming in at night looking for Beauty they were going to give her money for the death of her husband.
During that my mother-in-law was injured, because she was running away from this police.  My mother-in-law escaped, she got cut by a rock and she - in the fields just under her foot, then she was treated in hospital for this.  After that the policeman didn't come again, people were coming in with the special branches, they were, they kept on asking how am I living on with my children.
I would just tell them that we are poor, there is nothing for us to eat.  And after that I went to look for work for my children, I have been working since then, my child now are at home - are at school.  So the questioning of you and your family went on for quite a long time even after your husband's death.

MR NGUDLE: Yes the - the detectives use to come.

MARY BURTON: Did you believe that your husband had hanged himself?

MR NGUDLE: No I didn't believe that, they showed us the photograph and they told us that he was arrested and on the photo he was in the accompaniment of the police.  So it was clear that he didn't hang himself.  They publicised him showing him and saying that he has committed suicide.  They said he just the pyjama tie to hang himself.  
 Are there other things that you would like to  end of Tape 2, side A.