Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-08-28

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman the next matter is that of Velile Mxhosana, application no. 0118/96 and Leboane J May, 0180/96.  Mr Chairman both applicants are here.  Just to put on record Mr Chairman inasfar as the victim is concerned Mr Chairman, a police constable Mr Makaloi I was in contact with my colleague in Cape Town, Ms Thabile Thabeta who forwarded to me a copy of the notice served on the victim and the fact that she had telephoned his station and he was told that he was on his way, which thing I also did and I was told that he was on his way.  During lunch time, no before lunch time I had requested one of the policeman in this hearing to check if he has arrived but he had not arrived and the policeman took it upon himself to phone the police station and the report he gave me is that they told him that they would look for him to tell him to come.  During lunch time, just after talking to members of the Committee in chambers the said policeman came back to me and said that he has phoned again to check from the person he spoke to before and it's now that he got another explanation that this person has left for Bloemfontein but he comes from Aliwal North.

CHAIRPERSON: When was the notice served on him?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman it is dated the 8th of August, I got a faxed copy this morning.  It was actually faxed to him - to 05512315.

CHAIRPERSON: And when you phoned this morning, or attempted to phone, where was that, to phone where?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I phoned the Bloemfontein Police Station as I thought he was in the Bloemfontein Police Station.

CHAIRPERSON: And he was from Aliwal North?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: He was from Aliwal North as per information, my informer is sitting right behind me now, who spoke to the police.  My information is that he spoke to a Sgt Theron who is manning the radio control that contacts all police stations, Sgt Theron.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that how he learnt that this man is on his way?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is so Mr Chairman.

ADV SANDI: The notice to the victim does it not say what time the proceedings will start?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: It has been blurred but normally our notices state 9 a.m, yes it is clear 9 a.m.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well you may proceed Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Thank you.

MR MTHEMBU: That  is  correct Mr Chairman I will call Mr Leboane John May.

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: (sworn states)

MR MTHEMBU: Mr May is it correct that during the commission of this offence that you are now applying for amnesty you were a member of the PAC as well as its military wing, Apla?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Yes that is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: When did you become a member of the PAC?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I became a member of the PAC while it was still banned in 1985.

MR MTHEMBU: And is it further correct that you were charged with the following offences, attempted murder, malicious damage to property, illegal possession of machine guns, illegal possession of handgrenades and also illegal possession of machine guns and ammunition?  And that on the 4th of March 1993 you were convicted and sentenced for these offences to an effective term of 11 years imprisonment?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Yes that is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Now Mr May would you tell the Committee as to where did you receive the orders to participate in these acts?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Do you mean a person or a place?

MR MTHEMBU: Who gave you orders to participate in these acts?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I got orders from my commander Velile Mxhosana.

MR MTHEMBU: And what was the nature of the orders that you received from Velile Mxhosana?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I received an order to go and attack the security forces, the police.

CHAIRPERSON: Where?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I got an order to go and attack in Mbatu Police Station, here in Bloemfontein.

CHAIRPERSON: When did you get the order?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I got this order on the 14th of December 1991.

ADV SANDI: How was the order given to you?  Did he come to speak to you face-to-face?  Did he phone you?  How did you get the order?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: He came to me and he spoke to me face-to-face.

ADV SANDI: Was anyone in his company whilst he was talking to you?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: There was one man by the name of Ray who was with him.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR MTHEMBU: Is it further no correct that you were a member of an Apla unit that was under the command of Mr Mxhosana at the time?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Yes that is correct.

MR MTHEMBU: Now will you proceed to tell the Committee about your participation in the acts that you are now applying for amnesty.

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: What I can tell the Committee is that I do agree that I was one of the people who were there on this attack on the 14th of December 1991.  My participation is that we went to this place, this police station, briefly we had handgrenades and petrol bombs.  What happened is that we got to that police station, that is we got near the police station and it was dark, we stood near the police station.  It was sunset and we got an order to attack and Mxhosana threw the handgrenade and I followed, I threw a petrol bomb.  After that we left because we could see that there was some disturbance there.  The petrol bomb which I threw did not go to the right place.

CHAIRPERSON: It did not go what?  The petrol bomb did not go to where?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I lit the petrol bomb.  After that I threw it.  It didn't explode but it was - it landed on the right spot but did not explode, then that made us to leave.

SISI KHAMPEPE: What spot are you referring to Mr May?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I am talking about Mbatu Police Station as it was called.

MR MTHEMBU: Who had supplied you with the handgrenades and the petrol bombs?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I found them at the place where we met as the unit, I mean those petrol bombs and those handgrenades.  They came from my commander, the leader Mxhosana.

CHAIRPERSON: Where is this place that you met at?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: There is a location called Pahameng at Vultures.

MR MTHEMBU: Is Vultures a name of a place or the name of a person?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Vultures is a person.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr May do you know if anyone or any policeman was injured or killed during this attack?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: After we have been arrested and went through the court cases it appeared in court, we heard in court that there was a person who was injured who is a policeman who was working at that place in that evening.  I am not sure as to whether I am wrong, his name is Makaloi, that is the person I heard about that he was injured because it was said that the grenade, when it exploded, he was hit by the shrapnel from the handgrenade when it exploded.

MR MTHEMBU: And do you know the nature and extent of the injuries that he sustained?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: I don't remember well as I have explained in the beginning that the shrapnel from the grenade hit him when it exploded so that is the explanation we got in court when evidence was led.  What I don't remember well as to whether which part of the body he was hit by this shrapnel, but he was injured by the shrapnel when the handgrenade exploded.

MR MTHEMBU: Mr May will you tell the Committee what was the reason for this attack?

LEBOANE JOHN MAY: Shortly I would say at that time it was the time of war and we were continuing with the armed struggle.  At that time the members of the security forces were regarded as targets because we regarded that they were used by the government of that time.  Those are the people who were the pillars, if I may use that word, of the government of that day.  We regarded them as people who give the previous government power, who sustained the existence of that government that the oppression should continue.  That is why we regarded them as targets.

MR MTHEMBU: What did you and your unit intend to achieve by this attack?