Amnesty Hearings — Mabopane — 1998-08-06

MR VAN DEN BERG: If we can move onto the specific incident for which you seek amnesty toady, that is the death of Brigadier Molope.  You've heard an explanation of how he was identified as a target, would you like to add anything to that or do you agree with the evidence that was given by Mr Masina?

MR MASANGO: Well to start with of course, I must clarify that we never got a direct order that we should do Brigadier Molope per se, I never got order per se, but then I should also state that I'm actually the person who ...[indistinct] who attracted the unit's attention for the idea behind the elimination of Molope.  	This of course everybody, internationally, nationally, everywhere in Africa, they knew that there was a massacre in Boputhatswana and I am, I was a political commissar of the unit, I was staying in Winterveld, I was underground but above ground I was meeting with the people, they were discussing with them and everywhere where I met those people they were saying that Molope was there when those people were massacred, including Mokobojane.

ADV BOSMAN: Do you I understand you correctly, you are saying that Mr Mokobojane was also there when the people were massacred, is that what you're saying?

MR MASANGO: That's what I'm saying.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you, I was a bit confused.

MR VAN DEN BERG: What was your involvement in the operation which led to the elimination of Brigadier Molope?

MR MASANGO: Well whilst the unit had an interest on Molope, because we were the members of Umkhonto weSizwe which is the spear, the shield and the spear of the nation, I did not know Molope personally but we knew that from the people, because as a guerrilla we used to rely mainly on the information that we got from the people, we were interacting with the people.
	As I was saying that I was underground but above ground I happened to be involved romantically with a resident of Winterveld who co-incidentally one day told me that, when just asking, enquiring about, she told me that she's actually a friend to a woman who Molope has had an extra-marital affair with, somewhere in Beirut, I think in Beirut just nearby Winterveld.

CHAIRPERSON: Beirut, South Africa?

MR MASANGO: Yes, that's correct.

MR VAN DEN BERG: What did you do in pursuance of that link?

MR MASANGO: Well obviously I informed my commander and the unit that I seemed to have got information where Molope stays.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Did you investigate that further?

MR MASANGO: Yes, as I was saying I had this affair with that women in Winterveld - well I'm safe to say that my wife is not around here, I had that affair with that woman and seeing that she told me that she's a friend to Molope's mistress I started asking her to actually take me to that house, I know where the house is.  She took me and I even saw Molope's girlfriend.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Did you have access to the house?

MR MASANGO: I did get in one day next to the front door but we had to leave immediately because that woman told us that Molope doesn't want strangers in that house so we had to leave after that, but twice, thrice I was there.  I would go there on my own just to pretend to be looking for my girlfriend at that house, just to see about what is happening there.  That was part of the reconnaissance I was doing.

MR VAN DEN BERG: What else did the reconnaissance involve?

MR MASANGO: Well basically it involved what I was just saying, the information that I got from my girlfriend and myself going there sometimes personally with her and asking about: "Hey, we don't want to stay long here" or: "Are we going stay long, is he coming, is he not coming"?  Then I would get the information if he would be coming tomorrow or not.  Eventually she would say: "No, you can stay longer, he'd be coming on Friday or so".

MR VAN DEN BERG: So you were reasonably familiar with the area?

MR MASANGO: Ja, I knew the area very well there.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Can you explain to us how the operation was planned and how it was carried out?

MR MASANGO: On this particular Saturday on which Molope was eliminated ...[intervention]

MR VAN DEN BERG: Do you recall the date at all?

MR MASANGO: I only remember that it was on a Saturday.  I'm not sure about the date but it could be in March really, if I still remember well.  It could be in March, I'm not sure about the date.

MR VAN DEN BERG: You don't know.

MR MASANGO: I only remember the day, it was a Saturday.

MR VAN DEN BERG: Please carry on.  I'd asked you about how the operation was planned and it was executed.

MR MASANGO: Ja, on that particular day, as part of my reconnaissance, co-incidentally my girlfriend then told me that she's going to see Molope's mistress and  I said: "No, it's no problem I can take you there".
	There were rumours during the week that he might be coming over the weekend and on going there I saw the car of which I confirmed that, I was told that it was Molope's car and she also confirmed that no, Molope is in.
	That day we did not get into the yard because Molope was around, but she did go out of the car.  I remained in the car and then she talked to that woman to say that: "No, I'm not staying long, unfortunately today Molope is around".  
	After that I went to Mamelodi because our commander, Jabu Masina was there, he was based there that time, then I told him that ...[intervention]

MR VAN DEN BERG: When you went to Mamelodi were you alone or were you accompanied by anybody else?

MR MASANGO: I was with Makhura, Joseph Makhura, one of the applicants here.  Together with him we went to Mamelodi whereby I told Masina that: "No, Molope will be sleeping over at that place.  I've confirmed that he is around.  I'm only coming here to you Jabu to get the, to give us the green light, should be go ahead with doing Molope"?
	He gave us the order that: "No, if you are sure that the reconnaissance has been done properly, you've positively identified Molope, that he will be there then you are safe, you can go ahead".
	We drove back to ...[intervention]

MR VAN DEN BERG: Sorry, can I interrupt.  Were you given any specific instructions as to who was to drive, who was to do the shooting, or was that left to your discretion?

MR MASANGO: No, Jabu told me that I'll have to take them there, I was the driver, and then Makhura and Justice Mandla Shezi will do the actual shooting.  I'll only show them the place, drive them away from that place after they have carried out the operation.

MR VAN DEN BERG: I interrupted you, you said that you then received the green light from Mr Masina and that you were returning to the Winterveld, what happened then?

MR MASANGO: I dropped Makhura just next to Molope's house or girlfriend's house ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Was this after dark now, approximately what time of the day would it be?