Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 2000-02-01

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Bongweni, just indicate to us if your headset is working.  Do you hear the interpreters?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: I can hear, but no properly.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright we'll assist you.  Will you please stand to take the oath.  Are you full names Zandisile Edwin Bongweni?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may sit down.  Ms Dambuza.

MS DAMBUZA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Bongweni, are you an applicant in terms of Section 18 and 20 of Act 34/95?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: That is correct, Ma'am.

MS DAMBUZA: Which acts are you actually applying for amnesty in respect of?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: It is because I was involved in the group that planned the coup.

MS DAMBUZA: Who approached you to be involved in this planned coup?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Bongolani Ndamase.

MS DAMBUZA: What did he say to you, Bongolani Ndamase?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: He said that Col Duli wanted to see me.

MS DAMBUZA: Did you know Col Craig Duli before Ndamase approached you?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, we were working together.

MS DAMBUZA: When Bongolani Ndamase approached you as you have said, what were you employed as?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: I was training the soldiers that were attending the military school.

MS DAMBUZA: And where exactly were you stationed?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: In Ncise.

MS DAMBUZA: And what was your rank?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: I was a Sergeant-Major.

MS DAMBUZA: Did Bongolani Ndamase tell you what Col Duli wanted to see you about?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, he did not tell me.

MS DAMBUZA: Did you go then and see Col Duli as requested?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes.

MS DAMBUZA: How did you get there?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Ndamase was driving a car, he took me with him and then we met Mxutu and Zwamadoda Ntisana and Mazizi.  We all drove to Queenstown and we met with him in Queenstown, that is Col Duli.

MS DAMBUZA: What did Col Duli tell you when you met him?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Col Duli said that he wanted to see us because as we knew that the government said that it would hand over to the people's government, but that didn't happen yet, so he said that he had already met with other soldiers so we had to overthrow Mr Holomisa's government.

MS DAMBUZA: And what was your response?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: We said that we had wanted that to happen because Gen Holomisa had promised that the government would be returned to the people.

MS DAMBUZA: Were you involved in the pervious coup when the government of Ms Stella Sigcau was toppled?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, I was involved.

MS DAMBUZA: What happened then after you agreed to be involved in the coup?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: He told us that we must go to Port St Johns and inform the soldiers there, so that they can be aware of what was going to happen.  He said that he had already told the officers in Post St Johns, but the other soldiers were not aware of what was going to happen.

MS DAMBUZA: And did you go and tell them as instructed?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, we told them as we were instructed.

MS DAMBUZA: Did the coup in fact take place?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, it didn't take place because when we came back from Port St Johns, when we arrived here in Umtata the day before the planned coup, we were told that we had to abandon the plan and then on the following day when we were going to work we were then arrested.

MS DAMBUZA: And were you subsequently convicted and sentenced in respect of this deed?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Can you please repeat the question.

MS DAMBUZA: Were you then after your arrest, subsequently convicted and sentenced for your actions?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, I was convicted and sentenced to 8 years, 4 years suspended.

MS DAMBUZA: How many years did you serve and when were you released?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: I served four years and I was released in 1994, end of November 1994.

MS DAMBUZA: When you met Col Duli in Queenstown, was Mr Mxutu in the same meeting?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, that is correct.

MS DAMBUZA: And what part were you going to play, you yourself, in the intended coup?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: I was going to talk with the soldiers, inform them about what was going to happen, so that there could be no conflict.

MS DAMBUZA: Did you foresee any bloodshed or even loss of life when you were planning this coup?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, there was nothing like that because Col Duli said that he had informed all the officers, they were aware of what was going to happen.

MS DAMBUZA: Are you now applying that the Committee grants you amnesty for your acts as you've just outlined?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, I would like the Committee to give me amnesty for my actions.

MS DAMBUZA: Mr Chairman, that is the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS DAMBUZA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ma'am.  Mr Nodada, questions?

MR NODADA: Mr Bongweni, by the way where were you based as a solider at the time?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: At Ncise.

MR NODADA: And how were you going to inform the members of the special forces at Port St Johns about this intended coup?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: We would meet with them in Port St Johns and tell them, those that were the same level of ranks with us, that Col Duli had told us to inform them, as we indeed did so, we told them.

MR NODADA: Did he tell you how you should actually go about telling them, namely whether you should call a meeting of all of them and announce this, or how did he say you must actually inform them?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: He told us that we should meet with some few members that were in the same ranks as ourselves and tell them.

MR NODADA: Did he give you the assurance that most of the soldiers were in favour of the coup that he was planning?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, that is correct, he gave is the assurance.

MR NODADA: You have said in your evidence you did not expect that there would be bloodshed, why did you not expect it if it was going to be as planned by Col Duli?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: It is because he said that he had met with the soldiers, they were aware of what was going to happen, so there was not going to be any conflict.

MR NODADA: What did he say about these senior officers, that is senior members of the TDF?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: He said that he had already met with all of the senior members of the TDF, they were aware of this and they were supporting him.

MR NODADA: Did you believe that personally?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, I believe that because there was nothing that could make me not to believe it.

MR NODADA: Did you also share the feeling that the military council that was ruling at the time should be overthrown?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Yes, I also shared that feeling because I thought that it would be better if the government was ruled by the civilians.

MR NODADA: And you know now what actually happened, how the whole coup was carried out and when it was actually stage in November later that year.

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, I don't know how it happened.

MR NODADA: Now do you consider yourself responsible directly or indirectly, for the loss of life as well as the loss of limb that was occasioned by the aborted coup of 22 November 1990?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, because I was already in jail at the time.

MR NODADA: So you do not consider yourself responsible for that?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: ...(no English interpretation)

MR NODADA: You do not consider yourself responsible for that ultimate ...(intervention)

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: No, no, because I was not there, I was not involved.

MR NODADA: Now why are you applying for amnesty, what do you want to be pardoned for?

ZANDISILE EDWIN BONGWENI: Because I was sentenced and I have a criminal record, so I would like that to be removed because I cannot even get employment, I can't do anything.