Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-18

MR SANDI: OK. Never mind if you can't remember, it is not a problem. Who was defending his case?

MRS TIYA: The Minister of Justice presently, who is Dullah Omar was the one who was his lawyer.

MR SANDI: Were you able to attend the Court proceedings?

MRS TIYA: We were unable to do so. Even if we weren't there we were never expected to come in, we were prohibited from getting inside - we were always outside the court room.

MR SANDI: What happened to the accusations that were lodged against him?

MRS TIYA: Someday, some people from the Goza family came in and saying he was wanted, he was then taken to Court and it was said that the case was withdrawn against him and it was just after the unbanning of the Organisations. All the Political Organisations.

MR SANDI: Did you say in 1990 and 1991 you learnt that he was shot dead and was brought along by some people?

MRS TIYA: Shot, no, I cannot remember that he was shot.

MR SANDI: No, what I mean is when he was shot dead what happened?

MRS TIYA: It was in 1992 in January. We didn't hear anything from anybody about his death, but there were rumours that Aga was found next to the Roman Catholic - he was alone in a car and he was shot dead.

MR SANDI: Did you find his body and where did you find it?

MRS TIYA: Yes, his body was found but I was so much affected and I don't know what happened.

MR SANDI: During the funeral can you remember what happened during the funeral - were there any police present. Were you able to proceed well without any problems with the funeral? OK. You can take your time - we will wait for you.

MRS TIYA: There was nobody to come to give us the bad tidings - all we had was that he was at the mortuary and then we went there.

MR SANDI: Mrs Tiya, I don't want you to get into too much details about all what happened that day. I don't want to evoke more pain from you as you are already experiencing now. I would just like to ask one question. I don't say you must mention names, but I would just like to know was there anybody who came to report that he has any knowledge about what happened to say that he was present when this happened, is that so?

MRS TIYA: Yes, there was somebody who stated that he wants to come to the Truth Commission because he was present when this happened. The person said he would like to come here to the Truth Commission and it was stated that we would visit him, but that person denied flatly and said he has never said anything about being there.

MR SANDI: In other words, you are saying this person is denying any knowledge about what happened?

MRS TIYA: Yes, this person is denying.

MR SANDI: OK. Let's proceed. Was there any inquest in connection with this. Maybe to have any suspects brought to Court?

MRS TIYA: There were not even investigations, nobody was ever charged for what happened.

MR SANDI: In other words, if I understand you very well, amongst the requests there at home, you would like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission should investigate and make a follow-up of who was there and who were the perpetrators who could cause this brutality.

MRS TIYA: Yes, if it has powers, I would like that to do that. We were very disappointed because not even the members of the ANC could come and find out if they can give us any assistance.

MR SANDI: Is there any other request that you would like to present to the Commission?

MRS TIYA: Yes, there is. We would like that if the child who is in Tanzania could be brought back again. We would be very grateful because if this child had already being with us and then the mother took the child away again. We regard the child as the heir to the family.

MR SANDI: Is that all that you could say to us before I can hand over to the Chairperson?

MRS TIYA: The explanation is that the people wanted to make us a tombstone, we as family we wanted to go to the office of the ANC so that they can assist us with these arrangements but because I always forget, I am a forgetful person, I forgot to make a follow-up about that.

MR SANDI: Did you go to any lawyer for what happened to your son?

MRS TIYA: Yes, we did go to the Sangoni lawyers to get assistance but even at the police, nobody could state how this took place. Nobody ever knew what happened to our son.

MR SANDI: Do you think maybe you have left out anything that you would have liked to be presented here at the Commission? If you have something, you can please state it now. If there is none, then I can hand over to the Chairperson.

MRS TIYA: As my husband is now ill, when he was arrested and the day when my son was also arrested, my husband was also assaulted and they made his condition worse - they aggravated the situation and he is now amnesiac. We have a doctor who is our family doctor as he is suffering from amnesia - when he is disturbed my husband is always under pressure and is unable to think properly. Dr Mtankulu is our family doctor.

MR SANDI: Thank you very much Mrs Tiya - if there are any things that you would like to present for what you can still do that when my colleagues will be asking questions. Thank you very much. I will hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: I'd like to find out from Elias first. When he talks about the re-investment, what does he mean? Does he mean compensation or does he mean that he could get assistance, medical assistance?

MR NTSHINGA: I want to be compensated.

MR SANDI: OK. Thank you very much. I'd like you to give us information, what do you mean when you say you should be reimbursed, do you want medical assistance or do you want the cost to be paid?

MR NTSHINGA: My eardrum has been ruptured and my eye, my right eye, the nerves have been snapped so I would like assistance in that regard.

MR SANDI: OK. Thank you very much.