Special Hearings — Prison Hearings — 1997-07-22

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: On arrival, I was alone.  I stayed there for about a year.  After a year, rather I found Mama du Bruyn there.  After being sentenced, she was released.  I was alone through the whole year.
 After that year in January or February, Roos de Vos arrived.  After Roos de Vos, Lisbet Witbooi arrived.  After her Sandra Smith arrived.  After Sandra Smith, Mabisele Nqobo was the next one.  I have forgotten the other girl's name.  She has since been released from death row, but she is still in jail.
 Roos de Vos and Sandra Smith, after their death, I experienced a lot of difficulty.  They were from Cape Town, they didn't know me.  They used to tell me that you, because I asked for the documents written to my case, explaining everything to them, they said to me, you won't be hanged, there is nothing you have done.
 Roos said that I was going to be killed.  Please take care of my child, but Roos would not tell me that Roos worked for the de Klerk family.  Then that person was killed and then he got the death sentence.
 After the killing of this two people, (indistinct) found me there, it became very difficult for me to believe that I would be released or not.  After two years, Mabisele Nqobo left and was released.  From death row, he went home after his release.
 This other girl who I said I forgot her name, was released and went to Cape Town, I was there alone.

MR LEWIN: And Theresa, could you explain to us, I mean, were you all kept separately, in separate cells and when did you get a chance to talk for instance?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: We were separated individually.  I was not supposed to meet this other prisoners at all.  If a prison would be constructed because of me, there would be a place designated alone for me, so as not to meet others.
 I was the first, or rather in the first cell, and there were other eight different cells.  There was a hospital where White people stayed in.  I was right in front of the kitchen.
 On my window, or rather through the window I could see people.  The other Warrant Officer, Emily Kekana, who is Black, I asked her, this thing of hanging people, does it exist.  She shouted back at me and I got shocked that she got happy about it.
 She even said that she was going to close the window so that I could not see other people, because I was going to die.  I couldn't understand why a Black person would react like that to me.  I was during apartheid times, but I could not remember, recall, White people talking like that to me.
 Emily Kekana and Sergeant Sarah Matahole were ill-treating me.  The rest of them treated me with soft gloves, if I may say so.  I didn't have any problems with them.

MR LEWIN: Where did you get your strength from, because you obviously were very strong in that time that you were waiting, where did you get your strength?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: On a daily basis, people in my company, Sergeant Wozwani, Maponya, Gwebo - a lot of them and some of this young White policemen who were there, I don't recall them telling me what to do.  They would come with music, play music and bring sermons to me.
 There were some that enjoyed that.  When I worked with this two people, I could see that I would be killed the next day, but with the other Sergeants who were sympathetic to me, I felt I could be released any time.  Even at that very moment, hence I gained strength and courage.
 They would tell me that your case has got support outside, the whole world is praying for you.  That gave me a lot of strength.  I thought that having the whole world praying for us, maybe our prayers would be answered.

MR LEWIN: Theresa, that day when Father Patrick came and you were going to be executed in five days time.  Just take us through those last few days and your feelings.

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: Through the five days after Father Patrick left and I heard that I will be hanged, I don't want to lie.  I don't remember crying.  Whether I was then mad, I was just a human being, just a thing.
 I just hauled myself all over the place, not knowing what is happening.  I remember one day asking them what would I do not to feel whilst being hanged and I asked how much I had and I was told I had R380-00.  
 I required to ask all the food I needed, I wrote them all kinds of dishes.  I thought maybe they would allow me to buy brandy straight, and then they would hang me without feeling it, then I wrote it down, the straight of Whisky.
 They came back to me, I said to them maybe if I drink or take this Whisky, I would not feel it.  Now this took us a step back, I knew that I didn't kill this person.  The food arrived.   When you are awaiting death, you don't even eat like a pig, it eats much better.
 You eat up everything, even the peels, so that when they kill me, I would have balance and when they say you are not going to have any more food, I would have something in my stomach.  You eat everything with the peels.
 I think I bought food worth R80-00 and at half past one, I had devoured the whole of the food I bought.  I couldn't understand why I ate so much, but I ate up everything.
 What I didn't eat was their chicken because when they know that they are going to kill you, they bring this chicken.  All the time they have not been bringing the chicken to you.  We had a believe that this chicken had something they poured in or they mixed the chicken, so that you die.
 I took the chicken and gave it to my fellow prisoners together with the food to the amount of R4-00 that I said I would rather give it to my fellow prisoners.  They asked them if they wanted the food and they agreed and I said I don't want the food.

MR LEWIN: That means that you learnt only at the very, very last moment that you were not going to be killed?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: I didn't know that I was not going to be killed or hanged, or rather I had the believe that I wouldn't be hanged.  I just pulled myself that whatever comes, let it be.

MR LEWIN: But when did they actually tell you?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: They told me on Thursday, we were supposed to be hanged on Friday.  They came to me on Thursday, telling me that we are no longer going to be hanged, I could not understand it.  I thought he was laying to me.
 And I asked myself, why are they coming for me during the night when they come for others during the early hours of the morning.  Or rather they want to get rid of me quickly as possible.  If you might have been there, they would guard almost 24 hours.  On the balconies on top of the cells, there would be this guards, guarding us all the time, whether we killed God or what we did, we couldn't actually come to terms with that.
 On your way, leading to the male section, there are warders on both sides until you reach the cars.

MR LEWIN: How did you feel when you finally realised that you were not going to be hanged?  How did you feel about how they had treated you through this process?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: It was much the same like we were going to be hanged.  We still had some days to wait until they gave us the date to be executed, now you can understand that I lost faith at times.  It would come and go.
 You never knew when you would be told the truth that we would be hanged or not, and that would be the end.

MR LEWIN: And Theresa, how do you feel now?

THERESA RAMASHAMOLA: At the present moment, I don't want to lie.  As far as life is concerned, personally if they would have hanged me at that time, it would be much better.  It would have been painful then and that would be it.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Any questions from Tom Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Theresa, you state that if they would have killed you, your problems would have been resolved.