Human Rights Violation Hearings — Cradock — 1996-02-10

NOMBULELO NGUBO: Yes.

MS MAYA: Do you know what he said in his own statement?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: No, I do not.

MS MAYA: According to your knowledge, who is Xoliswa?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: Her surname is Ntombela.

MS MAYA: Where is she now?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: She stays here in Cradock.

MS MAYA: Is there any particular why Xoliswa would say your brother was an informer?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: He didn't tell me anything about Xoliswa.  That was it, he said it was it.

MS MAYA: And then the second time when your house was burnt down, where was Mziwakhe because you said he arrived from somewhere?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: Well, he worked at Uitenhage.  When our house was burnt the first time, I left to work in Uitenhage.  I then found a White man whom I asked to look for a job for my brother.  He then said I must phone my brother so that he could come and work at Uitenhage.
 He then worked there from 1977 until our house was burnt down again.

MS MAYA: So nothing happened during 1977 and 1985?
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NOMBULELO NGUBO: It was peaceful and Mziwakhe was not there.  Mziwakhe left for the Transkei after the second time.

MS MAYA: Your house was burnt down after he had come back from Uitenhage?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: He was working at Uitenhage and he came back when our leaders died.  Our leaders died during the week, on the Saturday there was a church service and then on Sunday evening, these four men who were disguised, burnt our house down.

MS MAYA: There was no reason that was given this time?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: No, there wasn't.

MS MAYA: I have one last question.  You say that police came with Mr Maqina.  Who is Mr Maqina?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: He was a Detective at the time.

MS MAYA: Where is he now?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: I think he is at Queensdale.

MS MAYA: Is he still a policeman?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: I don't know.

MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am.

BONGANI FINCA: Reverend Xundu?

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  I just want to ask about the Ntombela family.  Was there any conflict between the two families, your family and the Ntombela family?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: No, there was never a conflict.  Even now, I greet Xoliswa when I see her.

BONGANI FINCA: Ntsiki Sandi?

MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  What did Mziwakhe say about him being accused by Xoliswa as an informer?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: He said to me that he was not an informer.

MR SANDI: Were they at school together?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: No, Xoliswa was older than him.  Xoliswa is my
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age.

MR SANDI: You say that you were taken by the police to the police station?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: Yes.

MR SANDI: When you house was being burnt down in 1977, you said that Mziwakhe was taken by the police?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: I had hidden him with our next door neighbours.  When the police came, I showed the police where he was, he was then taken in a police van.

MR SANDI: When he came back, what report did he give, where did the police take him to?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: He said the police just asked him if he was an informer and he said he was not.

MR SANDI: Was it an ordinary thing that when something like this happened, police from Port Elizabeth would come and not from Cradock?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: I don't know.

MR SANDI: Is it normal that Port Elizabeth police would investigate such a matter in stead of Cradock?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: It was the first time that I saw these Port Elizabeth policemen.

MR SANDI: Did that shock you?

NOMBULELO NGUBO: Not really, because I was in too much shock.

MR SANDI: Thank you Ma'am.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

BONGANI FINCA: Mrs Ngubo, thank you.  You have given us a picture that we are clear about - during the struggle people burning down houses because they were labelled informers.   We remember that some people were given that label sometimes because they had betrayed the struggle fighters.  Some were given this label for other reasons.  Maybe you were at a meeting and you did not agree with a certain
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point, and then you would be labelled as an informer.
 Sometimes you would not agree with a certain person within the party, and then you would be labelled as an informer.
 We realise that this was very painful.  It is not our job as the Commission to investigate whether the person was an informer or not.  We just leave that to the person's conscience.  
 Our job is to look into the violation of people's rights by others.  The burning down of people's houses and people themselves and then we give a proposal to the President.
 We thank you for having given us this story.  Perhaps we will need more information from you, we will send our investigators to get the details that we do not have in our statement.  In the mean time we just want to say thank you to you.