Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-22

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I didn't see where it exploded because the car was moving, it was passing the Police Station.

MR PRIOR: And was that according to the plan?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, it was according to our plan to hit and move.

MR LAX: Sorry, I didn't hear the last part of the answer, "to hit a" what?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: To attack and move.  To hit and move.

MR PRIOR: I just want to get clarity.  The place where you attacked was the single quarters of the Police at Lady Grey.  Is that right?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't know where the single quarters are.  I don't know which side they are.

MR PRIOR: Oh yes, according to Mr Veldsman, a statement at page 38, Mr Chairman, the single quarters is next to almost alongside the charge office.  Do you know whether anyone from your own knowledge at the time of the attack, whether anyone was injured there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I heard that in Court.

MR PRIOR: So you do accept that the people, that people were injured there as a result of that attack?  No-one died, but people sustained injuries from shrapnel and flying glass, and things like that.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I do accept that.

MR PRIOR: And you then drove directly to Sterkspruit?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Where did you leave the vehicle?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We left the car in Sterkspruit, in town next to the road.

MR PRIOR: And the keys of the vehicle?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We also left the keys inside the car.

CHAIRPERSON: Where inside the car?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: In, we left them in the ignition inside.

MR LAX: In the ignition, Chairperson, that's what his answer was.

CHAIRPERSON: So you left them in the ignition.  Is that what you said?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And anyone who came to the car could have driven it away?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Did you think about the fact that anyone who wanted to steal the car could just come along and drive it away?  What, did you take any precautions against that possibility?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No, we did not take any precautions to guard it or to do something like that.  We just left the car there.

ADV SANDI: Should it be understood to suggest that you did really care what happened to this car after you left it there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: What we were sure about is that it would not be easy for a person to come and take the car because we were familiar with the situation in Sterkspruit.  People were not stealing like in any other areas, so we were sure that the owner of the car would find the car in that place together with the Police.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Paragraph 13 of your affidavit which appears at page 16 and 17 of the bundle, this meeting that was held in December of 1991, was that at Umtata?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Which meeting?

MR PRIOR: Where you met with Lethlapha Mphahlele and another Comrade who you don't mention.  Well, his name you don't mention.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was at Sterkspruit.

MR PRIOR: Alright, while I'm on that, I just want to ask, had you ever gone to Umtata for any form of training, or any meetings?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I didn't go to Umtata for training or meetings, but when I was coming this side or in Sterkspruit, I passed in Umtata and I went there when I attended a funeral.  That was the second time.  I did not attend meetings in Umtata.

MR PRIOR: Alright.  In December '91 at Sterkspruit, your Commander of operations, Lethlapha Mphahlele, gave you instructions, well you said it was decided that you were to attack Lady Grey Police Station as your main target.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Commander, was Lethlapha Mphahlele the Commander of operations?

MR PRIOR: At that time?

CHAIRPERSON: In December 1991.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, he was the Commander, the Director of operations.

MR LAX: So his actual title was Director of operations, not Commander of operations.   Correct?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Correct Mr Chairman.  I think it's one of those things I've forgotten to correct when we were going along.  Director of operations, not Commander.

MR PRIOR: Thanks, Mr Mbandazayo, let him just confirm it as part of his evidence.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you.

MR PRIOR: You confirm that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Was it Lethlapha Mphahlele that you intended getting instructions from?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: You said also in that paragraph, page 17, you wish to mention that during your military training "our targets were to be Police Stations, farmers and the South African Defence Force."  Was that you training before you came into South Africa?  Was it also part of your training while you were in South Africa, having returned from Uganda?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Please repeat your question, Sir.

MR PRIOR: Your training, which was military and political, that your targets, during this training of yours with APLA, targets were identified, you indicated in that paragraph, and those targets were Police Stations, farmers and the South African Defence Force.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We did not receive that training, but the Police Stations, the farmers and the South African Defence Force camps.  We were told that they were the pillars of apartheid.  As the pillars of apartheid we had to attack them because the government, they were supporting the government.  When we attacked them the government will be forced to understand the Africans.  To understand everything and to identify themselves with the aims of the Africans.

MR PRIOR: Who mentioned to you that the targets were to be Police Stations, farmers and the South African Defence Force?  Was that Lethlapha Mphahlele?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes.

MR PRIOR: And that was in 1992, sorry December 1991.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, it was during that time.

ADV SANDI: Sorry, Mr Prior, I'm just concerned about what the witness has just said shortly before his very last statement.  This appears to me is a problem of interpretation.  I think it was not very accurate.  The interpretation, that is the English interpretation, was that these people, that is the Police Stations, farmers and members of the SADF were to be attacked so that they could identify themselves with the aims of the black people, or something.  I think I heard him saying in Xhosa these people to be attacked so that they could understand what the aspirations of, what the aspirations of those people were.  Can you confirm that, Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: It's clear to me from your evidence and from your affidavit that the Director of operations of APLA had given clear instructions what your targets were to be for future attacks during 1992.  Is that correct?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, I was with him at the time.  That's what he told me, that we would attack.

MR PRIOR: After this incident at the Police Station and then the farm which you indicated, which we're not going into at this time, did you ever see Lethlapha Mphahlele again?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I was arrested.

MR PRIOR: Just tell us, when were you arrested?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: In April.

MR PRIOR: Of 1992?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Yes, 1992.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Mr Chairman.

ADV SANDI: Mr Dolo, what happened to Vuyosile, where is he today?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I don't know where he is.  I last saw him before I was arrested.  I don't know now where he is.

MR PRIOR: Just one follow-up.  What was his proper name, did you know it at all?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: We used Vuyo or Vuyosile.

MR PRIOR: ...(inaudible) only names he used?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I only know those names.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I didn't catch the second one, what was the other?

MR PRIOR: It was Vuyo or Vuyosile.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, as of now I have no other witness to call regarding this matter, thank you.