Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1997-03-25

MR MTHEMBU: Mr Chairman I will proceed now and call Mr May.

MISHEK MAY: (sworn states)

MR MTHEMBU: Mr May is it correct that you have applied for amnesty in respect of your conviction for murder and robbery?

MISHEK MAY: Yes Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: Is it further correct that on the 12th of February 1992 you accompanied Mr Leeuw, and Mr Nkgwedi, as well as Magoda to Stormberg Farm in Verkeerdevlei, and on that date you participated in the murder of Mr Fourie and the robbery of Mr Fourie as well as a Mrs May?

MISHEK MAY: Yes it's true Sir.

MR MTHEMBU: Now in your own words Sir would you tell this Committee about this whole incident?

MISHEK MAY: We arrived at Stormberg Farm, the farm belonging to Mr Fourie.  Reaching that place we stopped at the gate just in front of the house on that farm.  The gate itself was in a place, sort of a bush, there were a lot of trees around there.  We stayed there for about, a short while, but it can be about two hours if I estimate.  But before that, before we reached the gate that I am explaining about, we saw his car moving out of the yard.  He seemed to be a person going about his business.  He came back and found us there at the gate, together with his wife in that car.  As he arrived there he alighted from the car trying to open the gates.  That is where he was attacked, I mean shot.  He was shot by comrade Leeuw.  After having shot him it was necessary that we take him into the bush that I've explained about next to the gate as you enter into the farm yard.  After pulling him off the road I was with comrade Magoda.  I participated by searching his pockets and I found a wallet in his pockets.  After that I went back to the car where it was still - where inside this car there was this lady who was in his company.  We took this woman along and went to the house.
	As we arrived at the house comrade Leeuw opened the door by the keys he found from this woman.  He found the keys in her handbag.  The fact is we went inside and we searched Mr Fourie's house.  We found what we were instructed to get there.  Things that might be necessary for the organisation according to the command that we received from the person who was responsible for the task force.
	So we found the car, clothing, money that we could not use and the rest we could use.   We were able to get some goods ...(intervention)

JUDGE WILSON: What was the last word you said, money we could not use and something we could, I didn't hear it?

MR MTHEMBU: Could you clarify ...(intervention)

MISHEK MAY: I am saying the money that we found there we could use some of it, however, the rest of the money we could not use it for buying purposes.

JUDGE WILSON: And what did you say after money?  What I heard you say is, we found the car, the clothes, money we couldn't use and something else that I didn't hear what you said next

MISHEK MAY: We found money, clothing, inside the house and
some guns that were from the safe, two guns.

JUDGE MGOEPE: Sorry, just - isn't it so that you said you found two types of monies as it were.  You found the type of money that you couldn't use or could not be used and you also found the type of money that could be used.  I think that is what my learned brother wanted to clarify.

MISHEK MAY: I meant the money that we could use is this old type of money that were referred to as coins.  From there there was money that didn't look like those old types of money.
	From there we took the car and everything that was in the car.  We went back to Botshabelo.  We arrived at comrade Leeuw's place where he stayed with comrade Sibelayi.  Then comrade Sibelayi was left behind there, then we left, the three of us, and left Mr Magoda at his place.  The car was driven to D Section.  As we arrived in D Section comrade Sparks was the one who had to return home at K Section, the car was left there.  Then I had to look after the car until it was to be driven off, because it could be taken at any time according to his instruction.

MR MTHEMBU: Sir who is comrade Sparks?

MISHEK MAY: Comrade Sparks is Hendrik Leeuw.

MR MTHEMBU: Please refer to him as such.

MISHEK MAY: Thank you, I will do so.

MR MTHEMBU: You say you left, the vehicle was left at Section D?

MISHEK MAY: Yes it is so.

MR MTHEMBU: Then what happened thereafter?

MISHEK MAY: After about two days the car was confiscated at that place, in that yard where we left it.

MR MTHEMBU: At Section D whose yard was it where the
vehicle was left, do you know?

MISHEK MAY: Briefly I would say that yard was belonging to a widow, but I related to her because she was my mistress.

MR MTHEMBU: Yes, after two days the vehicle was recovered and what happened from there?

MISHEK MAY: Yes it is so, the car was found.  It had all the goods inside.

MR MTHEMBU: The car was found by whom?

MISHEK MAY: The car was found by Mr de la Rey and the others who were in his company.

MR MTHEMBU: Are you referring to members of the South African Police Services?

MISHEK MAY: Yes I am referring to the members of the SAPS.

MR MTHEMBU: Proceed Sir.  After the car was found or recovered what then happened?

MISHEK MAY: Thereafter there were Black policemen who were Mr Junkie, however I cannot recall his surname and Mr Steve.  That is where they said to me this car has been involved in the killing of Mr Fourie and then I found that I have to answer what they would enquire from me about the car.  They asked me of two names, I didn't know, they were the names of the comrades that I was with at the Stormberg Farm at that time and then I asked them whose names are those.  They explained about the two names as they investigated from the farm where they came from where this incident took place, from their parents.

MR MTHEMBU: Sir do you know what happened or what did you do with the articles that you mentioned earlier on that you removed from Mr Fourie's farm?

MISHEK MAY: The policemen confiscated the asset that we took from Mr Fourie's place.

MR MTHEMBU: Do you know where the police found them, other than the vehicle?

MISHEK MAY: The assets I am referring to, except this I am talking of.

MR MTHEMBU: You said the vehicle was recovered in Section D.  Now the rest of the articles or items that were removed from Mr Fourie's farm, do you know where the police found them?

MISHEK MAY: No I know of the assets that were in the car.

MR MTHEMBU: Do you know what happened to the firearms?

MISHEK MAY: About the firearms as per as arranged before we parted with Comrade Leeuw, the firearms were supposed to have been taken by him, all three firearms.  However, when the policemen arrived there was a firearm that was found in the car.
(The speaker's mike is not on)

JUDGE WILSON: You said a moment ago all three firearms, did you take three firearms?

MISHEK MAY: We took two firearms, when we did have a pistol in our possession.

ADV DE JAGER: How much money did you find in the wallet of Mr Fourie, when you took it out of his pocket?

MISHEK MAY: I believe the money within the wallet was not taken out of the wallet.

ADV DE JAGER: Well what did you do with the wallet?

MISHEK MAY: That wallet with money was found within the car.

ADV DE JAGER: And the other money you found in the house that could be used, what was the sum of money you found, the money that you could use, not the ancient money?

MISHEK MAY: I don't think there was anybody who managed to count it.  We just mixed it together with the coins and made a parcel.

ADV DE JAGER: How big was that parcel?

MISHEK MAY: It was a hand purse belonging to this female who was in the company of Mr Fourie.

ADV DE JAGER: The coins, how many coins did you find, those that you couldn't use?

MISHEK MAY: Well I don't know the number, but it was a bundle of coins.  They were in plastic bags.

ADV DE JAGER: So it was quite a number of them, 20 or more than 20?

MISHEK MAY: There were about 15 plastic bags.

ADV DE JAGER: 15 plastic bags.

MISHEK MAY: Yes.