Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1998-08-12

MR DA SILVA: I understand your evidence to be that the people that you saw, had camouflaged uniforms, is that correct?

VINCENT KHANYILE: They were wearing brown clothes.

MR DA SILVA: I have no further questions Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DA SILVA

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination, Mr Strydom?

MR STRYDOM: Thank you Mr Chairperson.   It was suggested to you that you are protecting various other groups.  I want to ask you a few questions in that regard.
	Do you have any reason to protect white people that might have been involved in the attack?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Sir, I believe that I am the one that is in a difficult situation, therefore I will not try to protect someone who is living happily with his family and children.
	This is the truth which cannot be contradicted, that Police or soldiers or white people were not involved in the attack.  If someone can come and say other people were involved, it could only be the soldiers who saw us coming from Boipatong, and never arrested us.

MR STRYDOM: You testified that Mfana Zulu and Themba Khosa was not involved.  Do you want to protect them for any reason?

VINCENT KHANYILE: The evidence which cannot be denied or contradicted, that Mfana Zulu was not at the Vaal during the time.  I was questioned about Mr Themba Khosa.  I said I didn't know and it was true, I didn't know.
	And further to explain further Mr Strydom, my aim for coming here was to come and tell the truth as it happened, and also the reason why it happened.  And also for the sake of reconciliation.
	If the main aim was just to get myself amnesty, I would say that is not true or the main aim.  I am trying to explain that since because I want amnesty, I have to lie about other people, implicating them with things which they never did or say.
	From there ...

ADV SIGODI: Mr Khanyile, please would you try and limit your answers to yes or no.  I think Mr Strydom is your Counsel, he is leading you, thank you.

MR STRYDOM: One last question.  You have heard the names of all the people that were killed during the trial, and you have also heard the names of all the people that were injured.
	Did you bear a personal grudge against any one of those people, in an individual sense?

INTERPRETER: Can you please repeat the last part, the very last part of your question.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, I want to know if he had a problem with any individual, did he know these people that were killed or did he have problems with any individual person of the people that got killed or injured?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No.

MR STRYDOM: I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STRYDOM

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.  Just one little issue, Mr
Berger asked you about the Msinga contingent.  What Mr Mthembu called the Msinga contingent and you said you knew of no such contingent.  Is that right?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Not that I didn't know, but they were not present.

MR LAX: Did you know of such a contingent?

VINCENT KHANYILE: No, I didn't know, but I knew people from Msinga because I was staying with most of them in the same room.  Others were staying next door or as I have already explained, there were about ten or less than ten.

MR LAX: You see these were people who we are told, had the job of defending the hostel and you don't know anything about those people?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Within ourselves, there is no one who is defended by someone else, so I would say there wasn't such a thing.

MR LAX: So there was no Self Protection group within the hostel itself?

VINCENT KHANYILE: All of us as the inmates, were protecting the hostel.  There was no group who was given the duty to protect the hostel.

MR LAX: And just one last thing.  We were told that monies were raised from those that were working, people had to contribute money towards buying food for these people.  Do you know anything about that?

VINCENT KHANYILE: Monies which I have knowledge of, which were collected in kwaMadala hostel, is monies which were collected when one of our members who passed away, if one of them passed away, we used to contribute money for the funeral and we also collected some monies as men to buy things so that when we got attacked, we would be able to defend ourselves.
	Those are the monies that I know of.

MR LAX: These things you are talking about, are you talking about firearms?

VINCENT KHANYILE: That is correct.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

ADV SIGODI: Mr Khanyile, what is your level of education?

VINCENT KHANYILE: I went up to standard 8, but I didn't pass standard 8.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Khanyile, you may stand down.

<UNKNOWN>: .

MR DA SILVA: Mr Chairperson, might - it does not have anything to do with Mr Khanyile, but as a result of one of his answers, might I formally direct a request through you to Adv Prior if we could see the amnesty applications for the Policemen and soldiers who have made applications for amnesty in respect of events in the Vaal?  We need the permission of the TRC to have sight of those documents, only the TRC can wave the privilege.

CHAIRPERSON: You have to make an substantive application for that.  As you know that applications for amnesty are confidential matters, until there is a hearing.

MR DA SILVA: Yes, that is why I am asking.  Are you saying that we must make a substantive application to you or in the court?

CHAIRPERSON: Discuss the matter with Mr Prior.
	Mr Strydom, are you ready with your next witness?  I am sorry, I see that it is about half past one.  We will take the lunch adjournment now, we will come back at quarter past two.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS