Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-11-18

MR POTGIETER: Thank you very much Mr Meyer.  Premier Kriel would you like to add to the submission?  Thank you.

ANDRIES STEPHANUS KRIEL: Thank you very much Chairperson, Honourable Members of the Commission.  I think my contribution will be more on the efforts made by the then South African government to try and prevent any bloodshed on that day.
 Let me first of all say this to you Sir, that it became quite clear from the media, as well as information that came to the South African Police at the time that the march on that fateful day was going to cause problems and trouble and may lead to bloodshed.  That is why I believe the South African Police, and they have to talk for themselves, but 
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that they deployed more people on that day than would normally have been here in Bisho, or on the King Williamstown side.
 We regarded this matter of such importance that on that morning the following politicians from the old regime found themselves at the South African Embassy at the time ...(tape ends)... 
 ...room were set up to deal with information and if necessary to be used as a place for negotiations.  The late Mr Gert Myburgh who was then my deputy minister of Law and Order, he arrived here.  So did Mr Wynand Breytenbach, the deputy minister of Defence. So did the then member of Parliament who is now Senator Radue, he also arrived there, as well as myself who was then the Minister of Law and Order.
 Now Sir you will recall, and I think that evidence must have been led, that there was an application from the ANC/SACP to hold this march.  It was agreed to by the South African side magistrate.  It was eventually also agreed to by the magistrate of the Ciskei.  But in spite of this it did not meet with the approval of Brigadier Gqozo at the time.  
 However, on that morning, and I was during that morning constantly also in contact, and so was Senator Radue, and especially, and I want to mention one other name and that is the Ambassador at the time who was Mr Piet Goosen, we were in constant contact, trying to make contact with Brigadier Gqozo, with the Peace Monitors, and two of them were present that day if I remember correctly, it was Mr Antonie Geldenhuys and Dion Rudman, and we were trying to sort-of set up a shuttle diplomacy that day to try and prevent 
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problems arising.  
 Eventually and to our great relief at that stage Brigadier Gqozo told us, or Mr Goosen if I remember correctly, that he will not act against anybody taking part in that march.  You can imagine, Chairperson, our relief, but just to make sure we decided we wanted to have a look at the march but at the same time also personally make contact with Brigadier Gqozo.  
 We therefore got into a helicopter, the people I just mentioned, flew over these thousands of people preparing for the march.  We then flew to where Brigadier Gqozo had his office.  We landed. We were escorted into his office where some of his then people from his military council assisted him.  We met, I congratulated him on his wise decision that he will not prevent the march from taking place.  He was very nervous at the time, I must say this to you, that he was worried that the march could be just a sort-of a facade to get rid of him and his government.  In any case we had a discussion about this.  I said to him at the time that if everybody sticks to the rules of the game then nothing will go wrong on that particular day.  I then took my leave and left, again with the helicopter and landed back at the South African Embassy at the time.  I told the other, or we came to the conclusion, both Senator Radue at the time, myself and the late Gert Myburgh that we have a chance to avert any bloodshed that particular day.
 Whilst we were sitting in the Embassy waiting to find out what will happen eventually when the march will take place we were kept informed that the march started and that everything was going according to plan, that everybody stuck to the route, and then all of a sudden Sir,  the very 
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disturbing news, the very upsetting news that shooting had started came to us.  One sort of got the feeling that with everything you have tried you didn't achieve what you set out to do.
 Unfortunately that is what happened, shooting did take place.  Shortly afterwards when everything calmed down after this horrible thing has happened, Mr Antonie Geldenhuys and Mr Rudman returned to the Embassy.  They gave us a full account of exactly what happened. I didn't see what happened at the march as such because I was in the Embassy.   They gave us a full account of what happened.  Later that afternoon we were also presented with two videos by the South African Police Services that they took.  We had a look at that, and I can only recommend to this Commission that if they can get hold of that, and that should be available, that that will be a very informative piece of evidence for this Commission really to see what happened on that particular day.
 So you will Chairperson, Honourable Commissioners that we did try to prevent people from being hurt that day and from being killed.  We did not succeed.  I will not sit in judgement as to who must take the blame, but it certainly wasn't through lack of trying of the then South African Government, and what we tried to do that day and before that, through the Police Services, through politicians, through diplomatic representation to avoid this, certainly we have tried to prevent that.
 Thank you very much.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you Premier Kriel.  Senator Radue?