Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-26

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Firstly, the area of Lesotho was under Mtate command.  Myself I was stationed at Sterkspruit, I was the commander of Sterkspruit.  Within a two weeks period prior the attack we have a liaison with Mr Mtate and then he asked me to go to Lesotho to help him there.  Then I went to Lesotho.  Whilst I was there at Lesotho I was stationed at - I forget the name of the place, but closer to - not far away from Ficksburg on the side of Lesotho.  I was there for one week and a couple of days prior the attack.  Mtate brought the guns and ammunition and the grenades and then we planned the attack and we decided that we were going to divide ourselves in two units, one unit headed by myself and the other unit headed by him.  Then we went to the side of South Africa.  After we crossed the river we then divided ourselves into those respective units.  My unit was leading the other unit.  We went closer to the mentioned house.  I went to a third house from that house and then I waited for his unit to reach that house.  We were also having information that all those houses around South African border closer to Lesotho were security personnel houses, they were after all acting as the first line of defence so as Apla and as our politics of the PAC that the police and the army were the pillars of apartheid and then that they wanted to be targeted.  So the question of hitting that house was not specifically planned that we have to hit directly that one.  We were there to attack anyone with the information we had was that all those houses were there were of security personnel's houses.
	So the unit of Mtate attacked the house mentioned and mine attacked the third house from that one from the left hand side.  With my unit, I was myself and Roger, I was armed with an R4 and a rifle grenade.  Roger, I'm not sure what he was armed with but I think it was pistol, if not it was an Uzi which was a sub-machine gun.  He was also having the grenade with him, an M26.  He didn't use it in that house.  After all, the main attack was going to be launched by the unit of Mtate.  I was to see what was happening and then we attack any house whilst they were attacking if there was nothing else of any kind of counter-attack. 
	So we retreated.  Whilst we were retreating, there was a counter attack and then we went to the road, the main road.  At the main road there was a bridge.  We rushed ourselves to the other side of the bridge.  At the other side of the bridge that was then that I launched the rifle grenade and thereafter there was a car or then the cars that keep on passing the road but there was one car which we suspected to be of reinforcement.  That was the one whereby I instructed Roger to throw the grenade to it but he missed the car with the grenade and there were also some shots which we fired to the car and thereafter we retreated to the Lesotho side.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Now Mr Dolo, did - what exactly that Mr Kgotlhe told you when he called you from Sterkspruit where you were in charge?  What exactly did he tell you about these attacks, what was the purpose, what did he tell you the purpose of the attack?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: It was part and parcel of our operations first to target and attack the police, the South African Police and the security forces and the Defence Force members at that time so with the information he was having was that those houses there were acting as the first line of defence, of which people who were deployed there will be security personnel so such people and their houses were part and parcel of our targets as they were acting as the garrisons of the then apartheid State so such places then had to be targeted so we didn't have any problem with that.

ADV SANDI: Sorry Mr Dolo, did he tell you where he got this information from that the houses were occupied by security personnel?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: No, it was not part of my duties to question that.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, if there's no question on this then I would like to pass to the Dunside so that I can be finished leading him.
	Mr Dolo then can you tell the Committee about the Dunside Farm attack?  Why did you decide to attack the farm, the Dunside Farm?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: As Apla cadre and as a PAC, under Apla we stated out openly that what forms of the targets had to be targeted.  We mentioned the question of the Defence Force, South African Defence Force, we mentioned the question of the SAP and the Reservist and general, we also mentioned the question of farmers, specifically White farmers, they were belonging to the Commando structures.  So and also on the question of those farmers who were closer to the Lesotho side, it was part of our plan, our strategy that to drive them out of those areas as to widen up our area of operation and also by driving them out of those areas we would have a lot of land to operate to and by that after all we'll be having our land back that was the first start of how we come about to attack first that place and secondly, during that time the police, I think it was a day before the attack or two days before the attack, the police, I think it was Minister of Justice at that time, who uttered a statement to the media that there will be no more, any other attacks against farmers during that area, that area of Lesotho, Ficksburg area.  So we also carry out this attack to undermine them, to show them that we can do whatever.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Now can you tell the Committee who decided on the attack, was it yourself or were you given instructions to do that?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I decided myself.

RE MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, for the present moment that's all I wanted to lead the applicant on, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Ms Patel have you got any questions?

MS PATEL: I do thank you Honourable Chairperson.  If you could just grant me a moment?  Thank you.
	Mr Dolo can you briefly just tell us, when Mr Kgotlhe called you to say that he needed assistance can you tell us when you went over to Lesotho who all was present there and what the chain of command was amongst the group there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Pardon, the last part of it?

MS PATEL: What the chain of command was amongst the group in Lesotho where you went over to assist Mr Kgotlhe.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Okay, as I stated after all that Kgotlhe was the commander of the Lesotho side and myself I was in charge of the Sterkspruit so we did have liaison, you can see from the map the area themselves that they are so close to each other, so we did liaise the two of us and then after two weeks prior the attack I did go to Lesotho.

MS PATEL: So are you saying that you and Mr Kgotlhe, whilst you were in Lesotho, would you and he have been at the same level of command in terms of your structures, would you have been at the same level.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Well, there's no problem with that of course yes, but it depended on the area, I was in his area so he is the one that knows the area better than me.  He had information of which I did not know of the target and other things so the whole of the responsibility lay with him, lay with him after all.

MS PATEL: Okay and who all was present there?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I mentioned ...[intervention]

MS PATEL: Who assisted in these operations that you have testified to?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: I mentioned Roger and Jabu.

MS PATEL: Okay.

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Who were part and parcel of the operation.

MS PATEL: Okay and who else?

PHILA MARTIN DOLO: Nobody else from my knowledge, I don't know from his side who was helping him or not but I mentioned those people, I was the ...(indistinct) operation.  Even the time I was there during that two weeks I was with those people so there was no one else.

MS PATEL: Okay so you're saying that from your unit that went over to Lesotho from Sterkspruit you took Roger and Jabu with you?