Amnesty Hearings — Vereeniging — 1999-01-19

MR MKHIZE: I do not know.  I do not know how it came about, I do not remember anything of this sort.

MR BERGER: You know very well that it was Themba Khoza who ordered that the evidence was burnt, and you don't want to reveal that now, correct?  No comment?
	By the way the statement that we are referring to, was made by you on the 23rd of May 1998 and it was confirmed by you this morning, correct?

MR MKHIZE: How did I confirm it?

MR BERGER: You were asked by your Advocate and you confirmed it.
	You say you have no knowledge about the rally in Ulundi, approximately one month after the attack on Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember because there many rallies that were held.

MR BERGER: Did anyone ever tell you that at this rally, the leader of the IFP, Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi, had given a speech in which he thanked Mr Nosenga and others who were there for the good job that they had done in Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: That is not true.  The Chief would have never praised or thanked the people for doing something of this sort.
	No one amongst IFP members would have gone and informed the Chief about such an act.

MR BERGER: I am reading from paragraph 26 on page 22 of Mr Nosenga's statement.  He also says in that same paragraph that they travelled in a kombi, driven by Darkie, that would be Darkie Qunchu.
	He says that Darkie's uncle owned the kombi.  You have told the Committee that Damara Qunchu owned a kombi, is that correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: In the judgement of the criminal court, at page 295 to 297, the Judge found that you had been in possession of an AK47.  That finding is correct not so?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.

MR BERGER: The Judge also found that a meeting had been held, well he said that although he was of the opinion that the attack on Boipatong must have been planned, well planned in advance, he couldn't say that there was enough evidence to prove that there was this meeting two weeks before the attack.
	We now know that there was such a meeting, correct?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: The Judge also said at page 3744, 296 of the bundle, page 3744 of the record, that you confirmed - I am not sure, I am trying to translate from the Afrikaans.

CHAIRPERSON: Why don't you get somebody to do the translation, whilst you get on with the other questions?

MR BERGER: Chairperson, I can understand Afrikaans, I am just trying not to be inaccurate.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, then put the question to him.

MR BERGER: You confirmed in court that as part of the military attire, bands were worn around the head and you also corroborated that Moses Mthembu, accused 73, Moses Mthembu, was a leader to the extent that you couldn't decide on your own that the residents should go out on attack.
	You required the approval of Moses Mthembu.  Do you remember saying that?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not remember that, but Moses Mthembu was indeed senior.

MR BERGER: So you required the approval of Moses Mthembu before you could take the residents out of the hostel that night, the night of the attack?

MR MKHIZE: It was not easy to inform Mthembu about this.

MR BERGER: Why not?

MR MKHIZE: He was an elder and a senior.

MR BERGER: So you chose to bypass him?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.

MR BERGER: Why did you choose the 17th of June as the date for the attack?

MR MKHIZE: It was a coincidence, there was no major reason why that date was chosen.

MR BERGER: Was it a coincidence that it came immediately after the June 16 commemoration?

MR MKHIZE: That is so, it was just a coincidence.

MR BERGER: Was it also a coincidence that the ANC suspended their negotiations with the government as a result of the massacre in Boipatong?

MR MKHIZE: Please repeat the question.

MR BERGER: I am asking you was it a coincidence that it happened, because you are saying that was not the intended result that the ANC pulled out of the negotiations as a result of this massacre.

MR MKHIZE: It was a coincidence.

MR BERGER: I just have some isolated questions and then I will be done Mr Mkhize.  You don't know who rang the alarm that night, but it wasn't the person who usually rang the alarm?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember really who did ring the alarm, but the person who would normally blow the trumpet, was Manqeli.

MR BERGER: You said in your evidence in chief at one point, that you did not give anyone an instruction to sound the alarm, then shortly thereafter you said that you did give someone an instruction to sound the alarm, what is the position?

MR MKHIZE: The person who was responsible for the trumpet was Manqeli.  I do not remember whether on this particular day, he was present or not.

MR BERGER: My question was did you or did you not give someone an instruction to sound the alarm?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember.

MR BERGER: When you were firing with an AK47, you were not alone, there were other people firing with an AK47 and there were people firing shotguns and there were people firing pistols.
	What did you do with the empty shells that would have been ejected from your guns?

MR MKHIZE: There was nothing that we could do about those shells, we just left them on the ground, because it was dark.

MR BERGER: There was no mechanism employed to collect those shells or to make sure that they were not left behind?

MR MKHIZE: It was at night and dark and there was no way you could have been able to pick them up.

MR BERGER: Have you any explanation for the fact that the police only recovered about eight, I might be incorrect with the number, but it was approximately eight, empty shells and all the other shells that must have been ejected from the AK47's, shotguns, 9 mm's, none of those shells were found?

MR MKHIZE: I would not dispute that, but I do not know how that happened.

MR BERGER: And the shells that were recovered, were destroyed by the police.  Do you know about that?

MR MKHIZE: No, I do not.

MR BERGER: Is it correct that the police only came to the hostel the following day, did not close off or surround the hostel that night?

MR MKHIZE: I do not remember well, but I know that the police did arrive.

MR BERGER: I think it was 16 hours after the attack that the police sealed off the hostel, would that be correct?

MR MKHIZE: I would not dispute it.  What I remember is that the police came and they cordoned off the hostel and no one could get in or out of the hostel.

MR BERGER: Yes, but that was only the following day?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is so.

MR BERGER: After Mr Themba Khoza had arrived?

MR MKHIZE: Even though I do not remember well, but I think it might have been after.

MR BERGER: And the weapons which were taken by the police, were just put into a big pile in the hostel and taken away.  There was no attempt made to determine to whom each weapon belonged, am I correct?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, I think they confiscated spears, not guns.

MR BERGER: Did I understand you correctly, Mr Mkhize, when you said that the reason you feel sorry is because you are sorry that you didn't kill the members of the SDU's, and that you killed innocent people instead?

MR MKHIZE: That is correct.

MR BERGER: What was Mr Themba Mabote armed with?

MR MKHIZE: Although I did not see him, I heard that he had a small firearm.

MR BERGER: Did you not tell Mr Da Silva that you knew what gun Mr Mabote fired with?

MR MKHIZE: No, I did not.

MR BERGER: Thank you Mr Mkhize, I have no more questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER

MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, I have no questions for the witness.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis?

MS CAMBANIS: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS CAMBANIS

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR STRYDOM: No re-examination Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR STRYDOM

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?

MR STRYDOM: I have already indicated no re-examination.

MS TANZER: No re-examination Your Worship.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS TANZER