Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-05

MR LEWIN: I would like now to call the next witness, Tiny Matlakala.  And ask her please to come forward.
I must apologise, I think we have changed names around.  Your surname is Mokgoshi, is it?

MS MOKGOSHI: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much.  Before I ask Dr Ally to lead you in evidence, could I please ask you to stand and take the oath?

MS MOKGOSHI: (sworn states)

RUSSELL ALLY: Welcome to you Mrs Mokgoshi and to those who are accompanying you.  Do you want to introduce them to us?

MS MOKGOSHI: This is my mother and my sister.

RUSSELL ALLY: Welcome to you too.
 You are coming to speak about what happened to your husband, Alfred.    Will you please go through your statement for us?  Thank you.

MS MOKGOSHI: In 1986 on the 1st of May my husband on that day went to the stadium.   He said that there is a meeting at the stadium.
 When he arrived there then they said there were no meeting and the police chased them out of the stadium.  Then they returned home.   
 Whilst he was on the way home, passing through the streets coming home, then there was an arrest at a certain 
park.   When I asked him, then he said they have killed a policeman there.  It was during the day around two o'clock.
 Whilst he was still there the police were patrolling the streets.   We were confined to our yards.   Around eight to half past eight the police came.  They knocked at the windows and at the doors and it was dark.  We lit candles.
 Then there were a black policeman and an Indian and a white policeman.  Then they entered the house with a certain lady called, Matsiso.   Then he asked the police what are you looking for, then they said they are looking for this man.  Then my uncle said, what are you looking for and the police pushes my uncle.   Then they said they were looking for Alfred.
 They found him.  He was asleep by then.  When he woke up I wanted to give him a trouser, but they denied.  Then they took him with his underwear.  Then they hit him with their rifle butts.   They took him to the Hippo.   
They took him to the charge office at Actonville.
 The following day I found him there, bringing food and clothes and asking for Alfred.   Then they said you are not going to see him, because we are still busy with him.   Then I asked them what are you doing.
 The office was crowded by people.   Then they asked me, are you the wife of the sell-out?   I was pregnant at the time, the pregnancy was eight months.   
 Then they said I should give it to somebody who would give him the clothes and food.  
 They took him to Bedford Police Station.  When I arrived there they took him first to court in Benoni, then 
they were remanded.  
 Then I asked him, why are you injured?  Then he told me that he was assaulted whilst he was in the cells.  Then he said that I should tell them the truth that I have burnt a policeman.   After that he was taken to Bedford Police Station.
 On the Saturday morning I went there.  Then I told my sister to accompany me.  We arrived at that police station at six o'clock in the morning.  Then I asked them to see my Alfred.   
 When he appeared he was swollen all over the body.  He bled through his ears.   Then he said, go and call the doctor.
 Then I went to call Dr Bouwer.  When I arrived at Dr Bouwer's surgery I told him that my husband is dying.  He is bleeding through his ears.  He is not able to talk.   He is swollen.   Then I pleaded with Dr Bouwer to leave the other patients to come and see my husband.
 Then the doctor told me to board a taxi.  Then he will follow me.   
 When the doctor arrived at the cells he asked them some questions.   Then the police said to Dr Bouwer, leave we will take him to the hospital.   The police said they will use the ambulance to take him to hospital.
 Whilst he was in the hospital I went there.  Lying on the bed, he was fastened on the sides of the bed.  Then he was not able to shake himself.  He was recovering there.    Then after that he went to court.   Then he was given a free .....   They were represented by the state lawyers. We went for his case five or six times.  Then from there he was transferred to the disciplinary court in Pretoria.    Then he was remanded again, twice again, on the fourth time then they said this is the final day for disposing the case.  
 Then he entered the witness box.  The Advocate came to me and said, you must not worry, your husband is going to be sentenced for four years.   Then I asked him, why is that, because he does not know anything.  At Bedford Police Station he did confess that he did participate in the matter.
 While we were still in the discipline court in Pretoria we were told that it is going to be the last time to hear the case.  
 The Magistrate said to him, you will be sentenced to four years.  The other two years will be suspended and he will do hard labour in jail.  And the fine was R2 000.
 And he pleaded with the Magistrate to let him go and the Magistrate said, alright you pay R110 every month and my husband could not pay that money because he was now epileptic.   He could not do anything. 
 He went to see the Advocate in Johannesburg.   He told them that he will not be in a position to pay the fine monthly, because he was not working.   Until to this day nothing happened.
 He passed away in 1995.  It was in October.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you for that.  If you do not mind just a few questions.
 The previous witness who was up here, who spoke about Boy Lucas Zwane, was this somebody known to you, to your husband, because in your ....

MS MOKGOSHI: I do not know.  This man was pointing out at every house, thinking that the police would let him go.

RUSSELL ALLY: No, I am sorry.  I think you misunderstood me.
 Zwane, the previous witness came to speak about an uncle who was also involved in this strike and was also beaten up and dragged by a Hippo.  Was this somebody who your husband knew?  Do you know the family?  The Zwane family who was just here before you?

MS MOKGOSHI: I know that family because my husband and the Bisaro family were together in discipline court.

RUSSELL ALLY: And your husband and Mr Zwane, did they know each other?  Were they friends?

MS MOKGOSHI: No, they were not friends.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now you say that somebody actually came to your house with the police to come and point out your husband.   Do you have any idea why they would have been coming around to your husband's house?   Was your husband active in any political organisation or in any trade union?

MS MOKGOSHI: He was not an active member.  He was just an ordinary person.

RUSSELL ALLY: And you also said, if I heard you correctly that your husband did say that he was either present or participated in the killing of this policeman?  Am I correct?   Did you actually say that your husband made that statement?

MS MOKGOSHI: He said he was passing and as he was passing by he saw a person burning.

RUSSELL ALLY: Is that the statement that your husband made?   That he actually only witnessed it.   He just happened to be passing by when this was taking place?

MS MOKGOSHI: Yes, that is correct.  He was just passing by.

RUSSELL ALLY: And this sentence that your husband got.  You
said he was charged and he was sentenced to two years in jail and fined R2 000.

MS MOKGOSHI: The R2 000 was a fine.

RUSSELL ALLY: A fine yes.   Did he serve any time in jail?  Did he actually go to jail?

MS MOKGOSHI: No, he promised that he will pay the charge monthly.

RUSSELL ALLY: And after this, your husband never ever worked again.   After he was released from jail.

MS MOKGOSHI: He could not work any more.  He was getting pension.

RUSSELL ALLY: And also disability, you said he was given a disability grant.

MS MOKGOSHI: No, he never received any disability grant.

RUSSELL ALLY: And after that case in the Supreme Court, that was the last had any dealings with the police and the family had any dealings with the police.