Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Elizabeth — 1996-06-26

MR NTSEBEZA: We interrupted you whilst you were still giving us details.  Please continue where you stopped before.

MRS MTIMKHULU: Thank you sir.  Siphiwo came back.  As I said before, he covered his feet.  We exchanged greetings.  I asked him you look ill, what is the problem, he admitted that he was ill.
 I wanted to know what was wrong with him.  He stated that he had an excruciating pain in the stomach.  He stated that his feet are always cold and they are swollen.  He says the lower limbs are always swollen.  He showed me and I also could see that he was swollen.
 And you could feel that it seems as if there was no circulation.  I asked him what was wrong with you, what happened to you.  He stated that it was a very long story.
 I was hurt to see my son in this condition and he also mentioned that he was ill-treated severely.  He even said the Boers have finished me, I am totally finished, there is nothing that you can do about me.
 I asked him why don't you stop this involvement with the struggle?  He stated that he cannot do that.  Although he is in that condition, he was still prepared to go on.  He said he cannot stop.  The time for him to stop has passed.
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 He stated that he would rather die than stop what he was doing.  I asked him what happened, we cannot understand why your feet are always swollen.  He mentioned that he was beaten severely.
 He stated that there were people who has to assault him severely, Nieuwoudt was the forerunner.  Roelofse was also 
the attacker, they had a team.

MR NTSEBEZA: I am sorry Mama, we'd like to understand clearly, get clarification.  This Nieuwoudt that you're talking about, is he the same Nieuwoudt who said we must not talk about him because those were lies that we are going to say?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Yes, it is the same one.

MR NTSEBEZA: Are you not mistaken?

MRS MTIMKHULU: No, I am not mistaken.  He is one of the people who tried to prohibit him and sent an interdict that we shouldn't mention his name.
 I don't know any other Nieuwoudt except that one, he is the same person who used to pretend to be a Minister of religion.  He would put on the collar and he would come and collect Siphiwo.
 He would say he is a member of the Methodist church in town.  He is the same Nieuwoudt that I am talking about.  He is Gideon Nieuwoudt, he is Gideon Nieuwoudt in Xhosa.

MR NTSEBEZA: When he got into your house, what language did he use?  Did he use Xhosa?

MRS MTIMKHULU: No, he would try to speak English, but he had a problem to speak English.

MR NTSEBEZA: I do not know whether we are talking about the same person.  There was a Gideon Nieuwoudt who was in court recently.  Is it the same person?
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MRS MTIMKHULU: Yes, it is the one who's hair is always fluffy and who is always - he hair is always flappering in the wind and you could see him on TV that.

MR NTSEBEZA: Thank you Archbishop.  Is it the same one who was in court recently who has been sentenced for murder?

MRS MTIMKHULU: Yes, he is a killer.

MR NTSEBEZA: Okay, let's continue.

MRS MTIMKHULU: Nieuwoudt and Roelofse, according to Siphiwo's details and information, would take Siphiwo and allow him to take his clothes off.  They would chain him and said he must lay on the floor.
 Siphiwo gives an account of what (tape starts) ... he would hand over to Roelofse to do the same.  Roelofse would also take apparatus or tools to torture him.  He would take pipes and the electric wire and he would hit him, flog him on the back severely.
 And they would always utter some words to him and would say he must speak the truth.  They would always say they want documents and I didn't know what they wanted and Siphiwo would always say he didn't know what they were talking about.
 He would say I will try to breath because I would be suffocated in the process.  At times I would pretend as if I've lost consciousness and then they would leave me until I regain consciousness.
 Then this was a trick that he used to use so that he could get some rest.  When they realised that I've regained consciousness, they would resume their dirty work.  They would take a towel, this would be a wet towel and they would suffocate you with this towel.
 They would take you and put you into very cold water in PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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a bath tub, you'll be taken out and then they would say you are going to speak the truth.  That is the only thing that we want from you.
 He used to say he would be taken and were taken to the sea.   He will be taken there naked and they will go there beyond and would make a braai or enjoy themselves.  As they
were enjoying themselves, they would take some drinks and Roelofse would go and collect a tin and bring it over here.
 I would receive torturing in the cells, there was another type of torture that I would receive outside the cells.
 He said they would put me on the rocks naked and Roelofse and Nieuwoudt would always say together with Mashekazi Tungata, they would always say to me this is the place where we always get the truth out of you comrades.
 We always take them and we do everything that we have done to you or that we are still going to do to you, until some of them die.  We always torture them until they die.  
 He said he would be put on this rock, he would see that there is no where else that you could go, you would sit, you will be tortured to the extend that you would not know what is happening to you.  I was helpless.
 They would also take me and throw bones to me as if I was a dog.  They would starve me for days.  At times they would put me into the van or into the boot, at times they would take the meat that they had been eating and they would give the leftovers to the other prisoners, but they would tie me and starve me.
 The food that would come, they would put cigarette ashes in my food and at times I just did not eat because I couldn't eat what they were presenting to me.
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 Let me continue.

MR NTSEBEZA: During the time when he covered his feet, was he able to walk at that time?  When you came back from Hilltown did you find him still able to walk?