Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-26

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Once Sgt Swart identified the body to me, I commenced the actual examination.  The body is usually laid on the post-mortem table, and in this case the body bag containing the remains.
	It is usually myself, personally, that opens the bag upon ensuring that the bag is the correct one, with the correct identification tag.  So I began the examination which was first a visual examination.

MS THABETHE: Just hang on, you spoke about a correct identification tag?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MS THABETHE: What would be that in this case?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: In this case it would bear a post-mortem from Gale Street, the Gale Street number, that is PM1155/97.  I verify that before I examine it.

MS THABETHE: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Dr Naidoo, when you got the body from Sgt Swart, was it in a bag?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Was the bag sealed or was it open or what was the situation when you actually first saw it for the first time in your life?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.  My Lord, if I may call you Mr Miller ...

MS THABETHE: Mr Chairperson.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Mr Chairperson, sorry, I cannot at this stage say whether it was sealed, but the bag was brought to me and identified by number.  I would do the opening of the bag.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MS THABETHE: You were still telling us what you did to the body in an endeavour to make the post-mortem.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes, what I would do is in a general case, not necessarily in this case, what I would do is open the bag out and depending on what I see, I would decide before I touched it, whether to do photographs or not, which would describe the state of preservation as presented to me.
	I am looking actually for the first time at this photo album, compiled together, and I do see that I did take photographs.

CHAIRPERSON: So doctor, I gather from what you are saying that as you sit here, now, you don't have an independent recollection of what you actually did?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes, nothing at all, apart from what I read in my reports.

CHAIRPERSON: And see ...

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: In terms of details.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Thank you.

MS THABETHE: Okay.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Then I would call for the photographer, in which case it was the station which was next door, next door, which was the Pinetown Murder and Robbery unit or the local criminal record centre and Insp McKenzie or Sgt McKenzie, I am not too sure, I asked him to join me for this examination.
	As I went through this process, I photographed various stages.

MR LAX: Can I just ask this.  You didn't photograph it yourself, McKenzie photographed it?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.  Insp McKenzie photographed it.

MR LAX: You asked him to take the photographs?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: That is right, in my presence.

MS THABETHE: Okay.   Since we are on the issue of photographs, maybe just for the record, we would like to go through each photograph and tell us what is contained in the photograph, or what appears in the photograph.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MS THABETHE: We will refer to it for convenience, figure 1, figure 2, figure 3 as we go along.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.  Figure 1 shows the remains as received and what one can first see is that it is a yellow mortuary floor.  That is the Pinetown epoxy floor and there is a blue body bag that has been opened.  Inside that bag is another discoloured pale white maybe, plastic.
	Within this inside bag, one can see some clothing and then perhaps one can make out a single bone, a few bones only.

MS THABETHE: Yes.  Can you go to figure 2?

CHAIRPERSON: That photo would have been taken upon the opening of the bag, and that is the first impression?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What you saw?  Oh yes, it seems like the belt has a buckle or had a buckle?

MS THABETHE: Figure 2?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Figure 2 titled "remains on removal of clothing".  It shows the same bag, here there is a label as with the first figure, here is a label with the correct post-mortem number  and shows the remains as they appeared after removal of clothing.  There would be some slight alteration of the layout, because on removal of the clothing, I would have had to remove some bones, but the state of preservation can be seen from the debris blackened discoloured bone and a fair amount of perhaps sandy debris.

MS THABETHE: You mentioned that you had to remove, when you were removing clothing, you had to remove the bones from the clothing, why is this?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Well, what happens is, a skeleton, in this body the bones were interspersed or intermeshed or intertwined with the clothing, indicating that the clothing were in the worn position, they were worn by the deceased.

MS THABETHE: Okay, figure 3?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Figure 3 reflects the appearance of some Negroid hair amongst the remains, just for positive identification.

MS THABETHE: Okay.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Figure 4 shows three of the articles of clothing.  Right at the top, the bra, the short-sleeved or mid-sleeved dress, floral dress and then a half slip, somewhat discoloured.  The dress has attached to it, or next to it, a belt, fabric belt, or plastic belt.

CHAIRPERSON: You said a belt, a fabric belt or plastic belt?

MS THABETHE: Okay, the belt that we have in our presence, doesn't have a buckle.  I realise that this one has a buckle?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Would you know what happened to the buckle?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: No idea unfortunately.

CHAIRPERSON: And doctor, we also had before us here at the hearing, a polo-neck, although I see figure 6, sorry, we will get to that later, but it is not in this ...

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes, that is correct Mr Chairman.

MS THABETHE: It is actually later on.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Figure 5.

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: To complete that, figure 5 shows a close up of that dress and one can see that the belt appears to be attached to the dress by a single loop on the right side if that is the front of the dress that we are looking at.
	Figure 6, the close up of the polo-neck jersey.  Here again it is quite discoloured.

CHAIRPERSON: So doctor, when, these photos are depicted, you didn't change anything, for instance I see the belt buckle, the belt is done up, it is not ...

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: No, I wouldn't, I would certainly not change or buckle up the belt that was unbuckled for the photograph.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Figure 7?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Figure 7, having sifted out by hand, all the bones, I would lay them out into a anatomical continuity and then photograph it and work out what was missing.

MS THABETHE: Okay.  What was missing in this ...

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: A few bones.  Almost all the bones were there, except for a few small bones on the feet and hands.
	If I just go to the, I don't specify which ones are actually missing, but I was satisfied that it was largely complete and that of a single person, not commingled with another person's bones.

MS THABETHE: The same applies for figure 8?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Yes.

MS THABETHE: Is that correct?

SEGARAN RAMALU NAIDOO: Figure 8 is a picture from the front, from the foot of the table.  What you can make out here are some defects of the bones of the right hand, the rib and of the pelvis in front.

MS THABETHE: And then figure 9?