Special Hearings — Health Sector Hearings — 1997-06-17

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Okay.  The first question.
1. Can you provide us with information regarding the approximate number of Namibian civilians who received medical treatment from the SAMS?
 2. Can you provide us with the number of PLAN, MPLA etc soldiers who received medical treatment?
 3. Can you provide the Commission with the number of Unita Angolans who received medical treatment?
 4. How many POWs did SAMS treat?
 5. What was SAMS role in ensuring that the SADF complied with the Geneva Convention?  
 For example did SAMS visit POWs?  
 Were there instances where the Geneva Convention was not adhered to?  
 Where detainees were "turned" was SAMS aware of these occurrences?  
 If so what was the response of SAMS in such cases?
 6. Can you explain what the indirect effects of this war with these countries were?  With respect to the issue of nutrition that Advocate Potgieter just referred to.
 The next section deals with the effect on and within the SADF.
1. Could you provide us with information and statistics regarding the effects of this war within SADF itself?
 For example, how many SADF members were killed, injured, disabled in combat and other circumstances, post-traumatic stress disorder?
 How many SADF members were treated in the operational area for psychological reasons relating to PTSD?  Were cases and reports of such cases followed up?  If so, in what manner?
 How many discharges were given or granted on the basis of PTSD?
 What methods of treatment were used in these cases?  
 For example, was shock treatment ever used?  If so what criteria were used before such method of treatment was undertaken?
 Do you have information as to whether there was difference in the number of instances of PTSD in national servicemen versus permanent force soldiers?
 The next section is on Medics.
1. Did Medics, under any circumstances, carry firearms?
You know there have already been allegations about that, so you need to deal with that too.
2. What disciplinary structures and procedures were operative within SAMS?
 How many disciplinary hearings involving Medics in the operational area were held?  
 And what was the nature of the offences at issue?
 There is considerable dispute around the veracity, for example, of place, date and reason given with regard to the issues surrounding deaths and death certificates. Questions.
1. What was the role of SAMS Medical Officers in this regard?
 2. Can you tell us whether the SAMS have undertaken any investigation of this issue?
 3. Were Medics ever instructed to give false particulars?
 4. Were Medics ever found to be engaging in such activities, i.e. the falsification of information?
 5. Were there any circumstances in which such activity was deemed necessary, i.e. the falsification?
 6. What disciplinary structures and procedures were in place to deal with such violations?
 The next area of enquiry is involvement in broader SADF policy and command structures connected to war.
1. Can you tell us what command structures you participated in or were a party to where general policy on war would have been formulated?
 2. SAMS had an Intelligence component, MS2, I believe, what were its functions?
 What role did it play in the war situation?
 3. How did it relate to other SADF Intelligence functions and components?
 4. What role did SAMS play in relation to psychological warfare, the WHAM, Winning Hearts and Minds campaigns for example?
 5. To what extent was SAMS involved in formulating such policies?
 The next area of enquiry, development in South Africa.
1. Was SAMS involved in the national welfare or the National Security Management Systems?
 2. Did any member of SAMS sit on any local JMC structures?
 3. What was SAMS experience of the deployment of SADF troops in the townships, particularly in the mid-1980's?
 4. Did these troops experience PTSD as a result?
 5. Did any patterns emerge from this with respect to region, type of experiences and other observances?
 The next area of enquiry is homosexuality.
1. What was the SADF's policy with respect to sexual orientations, specifically homosexuality?
 2. Did SAMS play any role in the deployment or implementation of this policy, that is, did it contest or support this policy?
 3. Was SAMS Director of Psychology involved in treating homosexuals?  
 4. What methods were used, for example, was aversion therapy used, etc?
 The next area of enquiry is conscription. What kinds of research did you do, or what information do you have with regard to,
1. What was the psychological impact of conscription?
 2. What stresses emerged out of that?
 3. Did these stresses increase as conscription or the war intensified?
 4. Did conscription in South Africa experience the same level of disorders as conscripts in Namibia, or were there any differences?
 5. What consideration has been given to the psychological needs of ex-conscripts?
 6. Has any assistance been suggested or provided to the ex-conscripts?
 7. Can you tell us what the rate of suicide was among conscripts?  Sean's evidence this morning suggested that there must have been at least 10 national servicemen suicides in Ondangwa due to the conditions during the period Christmas and New Year 1982 and 1983.  Did you collect any statistics from that?  And what was the follow-up?
 8. How did this compare, that is the suicide among conscripts, how did that compare to the suicide in the general population?
 The next area of enquiry, de-briefing and interrogating prisoners, including psychological torture.  There is evidence that such practices occurred.
1. How and to what extent was the Directorate Psychology, and the psychologists working in the structure of the DP involved in these practices?
 2. Was the DP involved in "turning", MK, APLA members into SADF operatives?
 3. Were they involved in getting information out of prisoners?
 4. Were either of these objectives accomplished by influencing them psychologically in a direct manner using emotional blackmail, sensory deprivation or other techniques intended to break human being psychology or human spirit?
 5. Was the DP involved in advising other SADF members responsible for de-briefing or torturing of prisoners and/or "turning" freedom fighters in the psychological techniques used to accomplish these objectives?
 6. Were psychologists present during interrogation and torture?  
 7. Did they interfere when they were convinced that the methods used were unethical?
 8. How, and to what extent was DP involved in preparing soldiers for the front, "and maintaining their morale", for example by increasing their hate for the enemy, by de-humanising the enemy, that is the belittling action of killing kaffirs, or by inciting them to prove themselves either by killing the enemy or through other means?
 9. What was the pro-active role of DP in preparing and maintaining the morale of troops deployed in the townships?
 10. How was the DP involved in the propaganda machinery and the diffusion of mis-information?
 11. Did the DP serve in the capacity of consultant to other SADF or government structures regarding the intimidation and the demoralisation of the Black population?
 Some psychologists were working in other structures of the SADF such as Intelligence and Communication.
1. What was the difference between your psychological role, that is DP of SAMS and theirs, that is those that worked in Intelligence and Communication?
 2. How did you collaborate with them?
 3. If you were not involved in their type of work what did you do when you were under the impression that they were being unprofessional in their work?
 4. What is the role of DP in the training of special forces?
 5. Could you outline the psychological profile required for selection to the special forces?  
 I refer you here to page 14 to page 22 -IV, no.14A in your original submission.
 Has this undergone any developments in recent years, or improvements in recent years?  You have not alluded to that in your submission this afternoon.
 We are interested in SAMS' involvement in the production of scientific knowledge and experimentation, e.g. you list as one of your activities, research, and we'd like to know a little more, in particular page 22-IV, no.14B, Project Bokviet.
 In this regard,
1. Could you tell us what SAMS role was?
 2. Did SAMS undertake scientific research which was directly informed by the state of war of its activities?
And here I refer you to page 22 -IV no.13E, no.13C.
1. Were human beings involved in any such research experiments?
 For example, were psychological experiments done involving troops and/or captives?
 2. What was the role of nurses in SAMS?
 3. Can you elaborate on the extent to which nurses experienced discrimination within SAMS?
 4. What steps, if any, were taken to address this issue?
 I will ask my colleague if he has anymore questions with regard to that.
 May I also suggest that there was another project which was done with a university, and I shall not specify, but I shall specify in private with you, 
1. When was the project started?
 2. What were the objectives?
 3. And when was the project discontinued?
 Thank you.