Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-10-21

CHAIRPERSON: We are now hearing the application of Monteguese Beguise Ntuli.  The Committee is the same as earlier this morning.

ADV PRIOR: Evidence Leader, Paddy Prior.

MR FALCONER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  My name is Patrick Falconer.  I appear on behalf of Mrs Mbuyase and the Mbuyase family who are victims in this matter.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairman, I'm John Wills from Pietermaritzburg.  I appear for the applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you ready to proceed?

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, we are ready.  May we just place on record the following
	That there were other victims as well.  I understand from my colleague, Mr Falconer, that they all since this incident have passed away.  That's Mr Matenjua - Mr Falconer has more knowledge of that, it's only come to my attention a short while ago.

MR FALCONER: Mr Chairman, if I might have leave to place certain preliminary matters on record.  I'm instructed by Mrs Mbuyase that her son, Lucky Mbuyase who is mentioned at page 1 of the bundle of papers died in 1994.  Ben Mlambo was evidently killed last year and  Lakahipo Matenjua was killed in 1992.  As I say, I haven't received instructions on behalf of any of the other victims in this matter.
	Mr Chairman, for obvious reasons it's been rather difficult for me to obtain instructions, given the fact that the persons who were allegedly involved in the attack on Mr Ntuli's house on the 26th of August, all appear to be dead.  I am however instructed that when charges were preferred against them in respect of that attack, their defence was that at the time of the attack they were in the Matkambeni area at Umtumzini and on that basis denied any involvement in it.  I'm given to understand that charges were withdrawn against them, presumably on the basis of that alibi.

CHAIRPERSON: They were in fact saying they weren't victims?

MR FALCONER: That is correct, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I gather from what you said, that although they may have been injured by shrapnel, the injuries were not of a serious nature?

MR FALCONER: Regrettably, Mr Chairman, I haven't had an opportunity to establish the severity of those injuries.

CHAIRPERSON: Well they were in fact themselves charged thereafter, they didn't die as a result of the injuries of the shrapnel.

MR FALCONER: That is correct, Mr Chairman.  It's on that basis that I'm instructed not to oppose the application for amnesty and that the Mbuyase family will abide the decision of this Honourable Committee.  	But with your leave, Mr Chairman, there are a few aspects which I have been requested to obtain clarification on and to put restricted questions to the applicant in due course.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, may I just confirm that I have an Investigative Unit report which confirms that the victims, Lucky Mbuyase and Lakahipo Matenjua both are deceased but in incidents unrelated to the one presently before the Committee.
	And finally, there is consensus on the bundle, that is go in as Exhibit A, Mr Chairman.  Without further ado we are ready to proceed with the applicant.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you calling the applicant now, do you want him sworn in?

MR WILLS: Yes, indeed, thank you, Mr Chairperson.

ADV POTGIETER: Can you give your full names for the record please.

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: I am Monteguesa Beguise Ntuli.

ADV POTGIETER: Do you have any objection to taking the oath?

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: (sworn states)

ADV POTGIETER: Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee.  Before I commence my questioning in this regard, Mr Chairperson, I'd like to just place on record that as the bundle has been placed before all the parties, I'm going to lead the witness and should anybody have any objections to the way I lead then obviously they will do so, but I think that it will save time in the long run, thank you.
	Mr Ntuli, you are presently the Chairperson of the African National Congress in the Norther Natal region, is that correct?

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: You - at the time of this incident in respect of which you are applying for amnesty, that is in August 1992, you were the Regional Chairperson for the Congress of South African Trade Unions and you were also a National Union of Metal Worker's of South Africa office bearer.

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now you are applying for amnesty in respect of the possession of a handgrenade and also in respect of two counts of attempted murder.

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: At the time - and Mr Chairperson, I'm sorry, we may as well do this now.  I'd like to make two typographical corrects to the papers, the first is at paragraph 7 on the date.  The first sentence is 1992 as opposed to 1996.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

MR WILLS: Paragraph 7 on page 6 of the papers.

SISI KHAMPEPE: 1992?

MR WILLS: It should be 1992, yes, thank you.  And the second one is at paragraph 18, the name in the second sentence is not Manzini but Mazwi M-A-Z-W-I and the same in the next paragraph.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it the same in the next sentence?

MR WILLS: Yes, the same in the next sentence, not paragraph.  Yes, thank you, Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Ntuli, can you briefly explain to the Committee the political climate in which this incident occurred, with specific reference to the number of your comrades who were being killed at that time.

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: Chairperson, thank you very much for granting me this opportunity.  Since Cosatu's formation it so happened that many members in different places of employment, like firms in Empangeni etc., were attacked by members of the IFP because Cosatu was perceived as a movement that perpetuated the aims of the ANC which was banned at the time.
	There was also the UDF and MDM.  The situation was very tense and in 1990 after the ANC was unbanned, ...[indistinct] the SACP, the atmosphere politically speaking intensified.  Many people who were members of unions, especially at the company where I was working and where I am still employed but at that time I was working as a shop steward.  Every weekend we used to bury people in their large numbers.
	The political climate at our area was such that one would never know who would die the following day.  The climate was very tense and this led to what experience I went through, where the IFP were attacking us.  Shortly, this is how the political climate was at the area, at the region where I was Chairperson of Cosatu.

MR WILLS: Yes, and you say in paragraph 6 that during that time Willis Nkunu who was also a Numsa office bearer, had his house burnt down, Mike Mbuakulu was attacked.  He was also a Numsa education officer I think at the time, and various other persons were attacked and some of whom were killed.  Do you confirm that?

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: Yes, I do confirm that.  It was not only confined to Numsa members, these attacks that is, people such Taliwe who was a shop steward of Pow(?) at the time, people who were activists within the ANC, people such as Naftel Nmani, they were being killed left right and centre.

MR WILLS: And on the same night as the attack on your home, a local Cosatu Chairperson, Sam Noia was in fact killed.

MONTEGUESA BEGUISE NTULI: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, can you briefly tell us what occurred on the evening of the 26th of August 1992?