Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-27

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Thoko Zulu to come on stage. We welcome you.  We would like you to relax so that you should be able to present your story undisturbed.  Even if you are the last ones to be listened to the Commissioners would give you sufficient and enough time as we have done with the previous victims.  I will request that Thoko stand up so that she can take the oath.

THOKO ZULU: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Can you tell us who is accompanying you?

THOKO ZULU: It's my sister.

CHAIRPERSON: What is her name?

THOKO ZULU: Her name is Nonthlanthla.

CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you as well Nonthlanthla. We will request one of the Commissioners, Yasmin Sooka to help you with giving your evidence.

YASMINE SOOKA: You have come to tell us a very painful story because your mother and your son have died in the violence, and in fact you've been caught up in the violence on the other side.  I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself, your son and what he was doing at the time and then tell us your story please.  Take your time.

THOKO ZULU: I was a domestic worker in Edenvale and I was staying there.  I used to visit weekends and month ends only.  One month when I visited my son was not at home and I asked my mother where Zekele is and she told me he is not staying here at home, and he's not even a student he's
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staying at Vusumzi Hostel.  I wanted to know why.  My mother said it's because they had a clash amongst themselves as they were comrades but they were Toasters.  They were all comrades initially but then there were conflicts.  Time went on.  I didn't want to interfere because I didn't want to go where they said my son is staying and I decided to go back to work.  When I came back in May, I came back on the 9th of May, it was on a Saturday, I was off on that particular weekend and everybody was well at home and we just enjoyed ourselves and my mother and I didn't sleep at home on that day.  I came back in the morning and I found the house burnt down.  Nobody could tell me what happened until a man called Booi came and he gave me a bench so that I should be able to sit on it.  He told me that the old lady passed away.  When he said the old lady he refers to my mother, she passed away last night.
 I sat there until the police arrived accompanied by my father to find out that my mother's legs were missing and the police were trying to find her legs inside the house but they never found her legs and they left. As I was enquiring, my sister can explain that, they were looking for my son and they knew that he is in Vusumzi but they found my mother and decided to kill her instead and burn her down.
 Time went on and we managed to bury my mother.  We managed to bury her although we had some disturbances.  After having buried my mother they managed to find my son but I was back at work and then I got a message that my son was being burnt down in Ntombeka.  I went there and the police took him and tried to extinguish him and they brought him to Rabasotho and that's where I left him and I went back home.  That's where I left him.
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YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you Mamma.  I am going to ask you some
questions just so that we can get the story absolutely clear.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we have order please.  The witness is talking about a very painful experience.  It's really disappointing to see people who have come to support the witnesses and not affording them the dignity they deserve.  I would really appeal to all of you, those who want to be part of this audience to afford these people their dignity and the respect they deserve.  Those who are tired should just quietly leave.  Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma could you tell me how old your son was at the time when he joined the Toasters?

THOKO ZULU: He was 20 years of age then.

YASMINE SOOKA: And you at this time when he joined you thought he was still at school, is that what you are saying?

THOKO ZULU: Yes he was a student then.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also said that he was a member of the comrades and that all the Toasters were comrades initially, what actually led to it?

THOKO ZULU: They were comrades initially.

YASMINE SOOKA: So what happened between them and the group that broke away to form the Toasters?

THOKO ZULU: I can support this gentleman who was here before. It was because somebody was killed and they had set up a lot that said whoever kills would be killed.

YASMINE SOOKA: This is why this group broke away?

THOKO ZULU: Yes, that's how they parted and they fought, and that's how many innocent souls have been lost due to these youth.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma did you ever discuss with your son when he TEMBISA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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joined this gang?

THOKO ZULU: I found out that he was no longer staying at home and he was staying wherever the gang was staying so that there was nothing I could talk with him.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you see him between the time that he joined the gang and the time he died, have you ever seen him in that period?

THOKO ZULU: I did see him there after my mother's death, because he did try to attend the funeral as well.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you discuss the matter of him being part of this gang with him?

THOKO ZULU: No.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma, at the time when the house was burned who was actually living in the house?

THOKO ZULU: It was my mother and my sister and her child and my children.  I have three children in all including the deceased.  It was my mother, my sister and her child and my two children, and my brother's child and the other one who was found at Verwoerdburg burnt down and even the killer today is not know.

YASMINE SOOKA: Can you tell me was anybody else besides your mother hurt in this burning?

THOKO ZULU: Are you talking about in the house on that day?

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes, yes.

THOKO ZULU: On that day only my mother was injured and the house was burnt down as well.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was anybody arrested or charged with the bombing of the house?

THOKO ZULU: Nobody was arrested.

YASMINE SOOKA: How long was it between when the house was bombed and the time that you were called to attend to your
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son?

THOKO ZULU: I think it might have been after seven months because my mother passed away on the 9th of May and then my son was on the 13th of March 1992, 1992 and 1993, seven months inbetween.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could we have quiet please.  You say that you were called by the police and you found your son on fire and they tried to extinguish him, when you saw him was he dead already or was he still alive?

THOKO ZULU: He was dead already when I got there.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was anybody arrested and charged for his death?

THOKO ZULU: Nobody was arrested.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma how do you feel, do you ever go back into the section where your mother lived after this?

THOKO ZULU: I never went back there because everything has been burnt down.

YASMINE SOOKA: The rest of your family did they mix with the rest of the residents in that area?

THOKO ZULU: No they never mixed with the residents there.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mamma because your sister was living with your mother and is also able to give us more information I am going to ask her to take the oath so that we can hear from her whether she can add to what you have told us.  If you could just shift the microphone over to her please.

NONTHLANTHLA: (sworn states)

YASMINE SOOKA: You were living in the house with both Peter and your mother at the time when this happened, can you tell me about what you know about what happened during this period?