Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-20

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, it was on a Sunday.  I have not yet come to the point where some things happened in December.  December is the month on which my husband died.  I am still relating the events that took place before then.  We went to the place where we were going to have a hearing.  There were some old men there who were prepared to discuss this problem.  There were youth also who were there and they were so rude.  They also said we want to take this man and assault him and hit him.  The others were saying Simpiye has suffered a lot, injuries were inflicted on him and he was hospitalised.  They even said there should be money which comes from us so that we can give medical support to Simpiye.  One of the old men said, Mankwali, please
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apologise and just pay the expenses.  Then I stood up and apologised on behalf of my husband and I agreed that I would pay the expenses of the medical bills.  They said they will not stop because they were saying they were bringing order and maintaining order in this area.

ADV SANDI: Amongst the, were there any other utterances like the fact that they were accusing you and alleging that you were an Inkatha members.

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, it is so.

ADV SANDI: Can you tell us if people regard you as Inkatha member, what did they mean by that?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: What I thought is that we are members of the Inkatha we were killers or murderers.

ADV SANDI: So in other words you suspected that the youth was believing that you were murderers?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, because the other thing there was a gentlemen who was assaulted and his throat was cut and he was also naked.  Then one day this body was found.  Some of the people said it was my husband who was responsible for his death, but nobody ever came out and specifically stated ... of that.

ADV SANDI: Let us come closer to the date when your husband was killed.  Can you state what happened on that day?  Was your husband with you or with your nieces or what happened?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, on that day we were in the kitchen and my husband was with the other nieces in another house.  We heard gunshots.  We were shocked.  I jumped and peeped through the door.  I could see that there was huge crowd of people on the premises.  I asked what was happening?  There was another gentlemen who came to say get into the house your backside.  When I went back to the house he went to me
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and then he grabbed me and then we were together in the house.

ADV SANDI: When you say you whom do you mean?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: I mean myself and my sister-in-law and our nieces.

ADV SANDI: Where were the others?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: My husband was in a house which is a corner house with his nieces.

ADV SANDI: Is this the day when it was said Inkatha is dying today, dogs are dying?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: There was a man who said so very early in the morning of the 24th and during that day my husband was shot dead at about 11 o' clock.

ADV SANDI: Did you say you have never seen your husband, how he was shot?  You heard this from one of the men who came to inform you about that and he was fatally wounded.

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, there was one gentlemen, Zilisanie.  He knocked at the door and I asked who are you?  Then he said it is me my cousin, please open.  Then he said we must gather into another house.

ADV SANDI: Did you hear this during the evening?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, it was just at the time when they were there.  He said he took a wheelbarrow to protect and defend himself because he was also being shot at.

ADV SANDI: Was there anybody who was arrested about the death of your husband?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, there were people who were arrested.

ADV SANDI: Did they appear in the Court?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Yes, we did go to the Court.  It was the Supreme Court.  The case was postponed for two times.  Then it was said, for the third time it was said it was postponed UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
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again.

ADV SANDI: Who were the people who appeared before the Court who were accused of killing your husband?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Malisa Sothlaling, Novuso Sekesie.

ADV SANDI: Do you believe that the people you mentioned or anybody who also took part in the murdering of your husband, did you believe that their reason was politically associated with their actions?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: I would like you to repeat your question please.

ADV SANDI: I said the people who murdered your husband according to your own thinking, what impression do you have about their actions?  Do you think this was related to the political situation?  Do you think they were relating this to the politics?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: I am not quite sure Sir.  In my viewpoint, I cannot say it is so because the people who were politically conscious there they loved us so much.  They were very fond of my husband.  I think it was just the youth who had something against my husband because the people who were belonging to the organisations are the people who tried to stop this quarrel.

ADV SANDI: Before we can conclude can you briefly state what would you like us to do as the Commission?  As you are here what would you like the Commission to assist you with?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Firstly, I would like the Commission to investigate the death, the reason for the death of my husband.  I was in the house and it was at night.  I did not see the specific person who shot my husband.  I would forgive him when I see that person.

ADV SANDI: Did you go to the police after the case was
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postponed?  Did you meet any of the police who were investigating the case or did you meet the Prosecutor so as to establish what was the reason for the Court hearings not to proceed?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: I did not, but there was one policeman who accompanied me and we came here at Umtata and he was also surprised.  He said he does not understand what was happening, but he will try to make a follow-up about that.  That was the last time that we discussed about the Court hearing and anything related to the death of my husband.

ADV SANDI: When was that?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: It was 1993.

ADV SANDI: Did you go to your place maybe, when you were at home did you ever go to the lawyers so that you can get assistance or any legal assistance?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: No, we did not.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Madlavu, do you have anything to say further than what you have already said to us?

MANKWALI MADLAVU: Sir, I have this to say.  As I have already requested that I would like to know who killed my husband, I would like that to take place.  Ever since my husband died I struggled to make ends meet because my husband was a breadwinner.  He left me with four children.  I cannot maintain these children.  It is difficult for me to meet the school requirements and the school demands.  The sisters-in-law also went away and they are working in Johannesburg.  I am looking after their children also.  I would like the Commission to assist to get some assistance in connection with the children.

ADV SANDI: Thank you very much Mrs Madlavu.  I will hand over to the Chairperson now.
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CHAIRPERSON: Pumla Gobodo, do you have any questions?

MS GOBODO: Thank you very much Mrs Madlavu.

CHAIRPERSON: I would like the people who are going out to please observe the dignity and maintain the dignity of this session.