Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-10

WITNESS:   As I've already said, that some of the children were studying at the University at Rhodes and the girls they came to me and said, "No, you can't stay alone as our mother has died".  If you can make an arrangement with the University of Natal so that we can come back here that we will not be worried about.  I realised that they were making a sacrifice by doing that, but these courses they were doing they didn't have them at the University of Natal.  They didn't have B Journalism.  They didn't have B Sc Computer Science, and now they had to start all over and do other things they had no intention of doing and Vuye started doing social science.  They gave her some credits - a few credits - and she continued on that.  And Dudu, she started doing B Com.  She also got a few credits, but she continued to do B Com.  These others were harassed, but the elder one he stopped studying at the university and he took over the businesses.  I said, "Since your Mom had died I won't have time to run the business, because I'm an advocate".  I couldn't be an advocate as well as run businesses.  So the elder son said, "It's all right", he'll be in charge of businesses, so he came back and started running the businesses.  It was very difficult for him, but after a while he went back to the university.  He ended up doing B Com and finished it at Westville, but even now he's running these businesses - in charge of the businesses.

KHOZA MGOJO: The last person you said the people who killed Pearl were arrested.  Are they still in gaol and how many were they?

WITNESS:   There were two of them.  There were two people.  Jamile got compensation, which is called

KHOZA MGOJO: /indemnity.  The

KHOZA MGOJO: 16B/12 indemnity.  The other one is still in gaol.  Jamile had been sentenced - had been given life sentence three times.  The other one had been effectively sentenced to 32 years.  The other one is still is gaol but Jamile is out.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you see him?

WITNESS:   I saw - the last time I saw him was in court.  No, we haven't seen each other personally.

KHOZA MGOJO: How long did Jamile spend in gaol before he got this indemnity?

WITNESS:   I'm not sure.  It could be about three years.  Could I also say something?  In fact, my boy who was 5 years old then, because when my wife was shot, he was with her.  When they shot he was running.  He was running and said, "Mama, Mama", and they were busy shooting at her.  This thing, over and above all of us, affected him.  It's still in his mind a lot, because he was a child then.  He had not even started schooling.  When he started schooling at Eshowe, where all the others were studying, he stayed for about a year and the sister said they couldn't keep him because he relieves himself on himself like, so they can't stay with him, because he used to relieve himself - pass faeces on himself, and I took him out of there.  I took him to a private school at Hillcrest.  Even there stayed.  Within a year the principal said, "Uh uh, there's something wrong with your child.  He continues to pass faeces on himself and the main problem he used to hide these things.  He used to hide these faeces.  It will start smelling all over", and they could not stay with this kind of a situation.  I took him to a paediatrician, Dr Jolobe.  He looked at him.  He said there's nothing physically wrong with him, but he'll give him something so that just to hold back, that he

KHOZA MGOJO: /doesn't shit

KHOZA MGOJO: 16B/10 doesn't shit on himself.  Even that didn't work.  And then Jolobe said I must take him to a psychologist.  I took him to a psychologist.  For a few months he was with the psychologist, because at that time the principal of Highbury said he must come back at home and stay at home and see if I could help him at home.  He continued with the psychologist and this psychologist left and went to England.  He took a holiday to England.  I spoke to one of my friends, who is a doctor.  I asked if there was anybody who could help.  My friend took me to a psychiatrist.  He treated him and gave him medication and then he started being a bit better.  It was just a bit better and I spoke to the principal to take him back to school.  You see, at school, when we came to see him, he would cry.  He would cry at night.  He would say at night he had had nightmares.  He had heard people shooting guns.  He was there.  He saw this thing.  This thing severely affected him.  That's what I recognise.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Any questions?

MR LAX: Judge Tshabalala, in your statement you have made reference to some newspapers articles which appeared and which relate to the testimony of one Alex Khumalo in the Malan trial.  Would you like to elaborate on that for us, please?

WITNESS:   Yes.  When I came here to this Truth Commission, it was caused by those articles.  I saw the article in Ilanga newspaper, where they said Alex Bhekisiso Khumalo, who had been sent to Caprivi by Inkatha, was one of the people who had attacked my wife.  So I saw that in the Tribune newspaper.  In Tribune there's a full story.  So when I thought about this and speaking to my colleagues about this thing I felt that

MR LAX: /maybe I

MR LAX: 16B/16 maybe I should come to the Truth Commission, because here is the person who has exposed this thing, that he was there.  So if he's a person who is speaking it might happen that if the Truth Commission call him to explain that at that Malan they didn't talk about my wife's case and Malan.  They were talking about Malan and his colleagues.  In this Malan case they didn't talk about the thing that happened in Clermont, but if Bhekisiso was there and he is called upon here to come he would give the whole story, because he says - because in this Malan case he said he had been sent to go and kill the business people at Clermont.  He says who are these people who had mandated him - authorised him to do this.  He knows the people he was with.  Maybe it might happen that this thing doesn't even come from that Clermont community.  It seems it had been authorised somewhere.  He might have all that information, so if he comes I and my children, we might find out the whole story as to what happened, who did this thing, and why did they do this thing.  Maybe we can forgive him.

MR LAX: There is another aspect that I thought might be valuable to clarify and that was Jamile and his co-accused were charged with a number of murders, but they were not convicted for all of them, as far as I understood.  My recollection is a bit vague on that.  Was your wife's murder one of those that he was convicted for?  I'm not clear about that?

WITNESS:   No, no.  He was not convicted for my wife's murder.

MR LAX: So that still needs further clarification then?

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine.
/DR BORAINE
16B/18

DR BORAINE: Thank you, Chairperson.  Judge Tshabalala, you mentioned that you and your family are anxious to know who actually was responsible for your wife's murder and why and you mentioned right at the very end, in your reply to my colleague, that you may be able to forgive that person if you knew who it was and why he did it.  Do you want to say a little more about that?

WITNESS:   If you'd know why - what motivated a person who did such a thing, I think all of us on earth we've got witnesses - all of us have got witnesses, and if you've got witnesses it might happen that there's something that influenced you to do something.  So if I know why these people, who had influenced them, for them to do such a brutal killing, maybe I could understand what had caused them to do such a thing, so I could forgive him if I know the truth, because now my heart is very sore.  I don't know why was my wife killed.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.