Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-01-25

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I opened the nearest rooms because from the main gate the residents had occupied the block downward from my side.  No one was staying there from my side except Mdwana or Vanana Zulu who was not present at the time.  I asked them because I wanted to go back to the gate again and as I was told to stay there I had to go back there and stay there.

MR BERGER: No Mr Mthembu, you've just been told by Iscor Security that there are two to three hundred people coming to attack the hostel?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes.

MR BERGER: You don't go and look to see what's happening?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: No.

MR BERGER: You are told by Iscor Security to remain at the gate.

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: So with an attack on the hostel imminent you go to sleep?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I did not go back and sleep, I waited because people had tune radios, they could communicate with the others because our hostel was the property of Iscor and it was surrounded by two fences, it was not just in the open space.

MR BERGER: What about the main gate, were you not afraid that these attackers might come through the main gate and attack you sleeping in the hostel?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: No I was not scared of that because I was already told to wait there because these people were armed, the Iscor Security were armed.

MR BERGER: Was the Iscor Security waiting at the main gate to protect you in case of an attack?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: No they had gone, they first communicated through the tune radio.

MR BERGER: Do you confirm what you say in your statement, the people did not come to the gate?
	"I again went to sleep and later I was awakened by people
from the Vaal Commando"

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes I confirm that Paul Schneider came to relieve me and he said he was looking for a light because these people were lying on the grass because it looked like on the road towards Vanderbijlpark there was a place and it looked like these people were lying there, lying flat on the ground, that they're only there facing the gate that was next to Iscor.  The person who would only attack, there was a person who knew the place very well and it's a person who would open the hole there and I went back to sleep and Vaal Commando came to awaken me.

MR BERGER: Yes but who came from the Vaal Commando to wake you up?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: They stood at the gate and they sent Mr Ntuli, I don't know that person, it's the person that was not known to me.

MR BERGER: And you were called to the gate again, you went to the gate and you spoke to this soldier from the Vaal Commando?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: And this person told you again or also told you that there people who were gathering at the robots?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: No he did not say that to me, he said towards the road there's grass there, not at the robots, at the lawn.

MR BERGER: Let me read to you what you say in your statement
"I was awakened by people from the Vaal Commando.  They also said there are people who are gathering at the robots."

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: No that is not what happened.

MR BERGER: Alright, the people from the Vaal Commando told you that those people out there who were coming to attack Kwamadala were still there?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes they said they were going to get a lamp that they would shoot in the air so that they can see the people who were there.

MR BERGER: And you were so concerned about this potential attack on Kwamadala that you went to sleep again?
"Ek het weer gaan slaap"
Bottom of page 163.

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I was given an instruction that this matter was in the hands of the Iscor Security and Vaal Commando.  They know that we were going to die like cockroaches, we were going to die, we wouldn't let them attack them but what we used to do, we were told not to do but inside we were told to sit down and I wouldn't wake the people up, I had to go back and sleep though I was not sleeping in my room.

MR BERGER: Isn't it Mr Mthembu you knew they were not coming to attack Kwamadala, you knew they were hostel residents coming back to Kwamadala, that's why you went to sleep, that's why you weren't concerned?  In other words you didn't fear any attack because you knew there was no attack?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I was scared but as a security guard I was told to work with them.

MR BERGER: You say that if Themba Khosa had come on Sunday the 14th June you would have known?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes I was supposed to know.  Yes I agree that I was supposed to know that.

MR BERGER: Because there wasn't a meeting that took place in the hostel that you weren't aware of?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I've already told you Mr Berger that each and every meeting I would be the one who would authorise such meetings, even if the reason for the meeting was something else or otherwise.  On that particular time I would know that the arena would be occupied by people attending a meeting.

MR BERGER: But you don't know about a meeting two weeks before the attack on the 3rd June, do you?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I cannot remember.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Berger.  Is the position that meetings within the halls had to be authorised by you?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So if there is any meeting that's going to take place you should have been told?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: But you don't recall any meeting on the 3rd June 1992?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I cannot remember Mr Berger because what would appear it would be easy for them to communicate through their protocol and they would come to the office.  It's not each and everyone who would request of ask for permission for a meeting.  It would be IFP meeting or Youth Brigade.  They would tell or they knew what members were allowed to go and ask for permission to convene a meeting, not just anyone.

MR BERGER: You see if you were being sidelined as you say you were then there could have been a meeting on the 3rd and the 10th and the 14th and the 17th, all of which you were not aware of?  Isn't that right?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: That is correct.

MR BERGER: Did you say that Vanana Zulu was your neighbour at the hostel?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: And his room was near the gate, wasn't it?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: You're still working at Iscor?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes that is correct.

MR BERGER: Have you made any attempt to locate the hostel records or the registers or any documentation which might cast light on the position in June 1992?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Unfortunately I did not check because the registers would mention that he was still employed by the Iscor.

MR BERGER: Mr Mthembu you say you haven't tried to get any registers?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I tried.

MR BERGER: The last time you saw your registers, they were in the possession of the police, is that right?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: I cannot recall if I did see them, they took them during my absence because they were at the gate at the time, I don't know when were they taken away but I later realised that the registers were no longer there.

MR BERGER: Do you remember giving evidence at the criminal trial about three police colonels who had taken your registers?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: Yes I remember, there's a short one, I cannot remember his surname, he once mentioned this.

MR BERGER: Was that Davidson?

MANDLA MOSES MTHEMBU: There is another one but I cannot remember but I think it was Grove or Groove, something like that.

MR BERGER: I beg your pardon, let me read to you the evidence that you gave at the criminal trial and I'm sure it will refresh your memory.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it not possible just to put what this witness said at the trial which of course is not concerning us today so as to shorten these proceedings?