Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-02

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, they were disputing that exercise because they continued with their criminal activities.

CHAIRPERSON: And thereafter the ANC Youth League started saying that they will not be controlled by the SDU which is controlled by the Xhosa speaking Africans?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It is like that Sir, because they were now independent and they were doing their own things.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR MALAN: Could you just enlighten me again.  If you say you disciplined, the SDU disciplined the Youth League members, how did you discipline them?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: They were showing them that those things they were doing were not allowed, they were reprimanded sort of.

MR MALAN: Can you just an another aspect tell me, the community in Moleleki Extension 2, were a majority of them Xhosa speaking?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Chairperson, all ethnic grouping were residing in Moleleki section.  We have coloureds we have, all ethnic groupings were residing in Moleleki section.  We have coloureds, we have the Northern Sothos, we have the Xhosas and so on.  I would not be able to perceive or perceive that Xhosas were in majority.

MR MALAN: Are you saying they would not have been in the majority, the Xhosas in the community?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: No, Sir.

MR MADASA: So you're saying even the Xhosa speaking Africans were not in the majority, they were perceived by these youths as influential in the SDU.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MADASA: Now, were you present when there was a march which was led by the late Chris Hani in connection with the demand for the release of prisoners at a certain prison?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I was present when we marched in that march which was led by Chris Hani to Boksburg, I was there.  There were some who were arrested because of criminal activity.  I would not be able to specify as whether those people came from Moleleki section but I know that some members of the ANC Youth League were not controllable during that march.  I would not be able to put a blame to any particular people or a section.

MR MADASA: Can you tell us specifically if there are any acts which you know of which were criminal in nature, caused by the ANC Youth League during that march?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Many things happened there, even within the SDU's.  Those things happened, not particularly to Moleleki section the whole SDU's.  During the death of Chris Hani, shops were looted and so forth.	I've no evidence in that regard Sir.

MR MADASA: The question is specific, just listen carefully.  I'm asking about the march that was led by the late Chris Hani to demand the release of prisoners, was there trouble during that march?  Who caused the trouble?  What was the trouble, if you know?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I did not see who was responsible during that march when we went to Motabe prison but I know that there was a car which the occupants inside tried to shoot Chris Hani and they ran away.

MR MADASA: Do you know if there were shops that were looted during that march by the members of the march?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I learnt that some shops in Daveyton were looted.

MR MADASA: Now let's come to the incident, the day of the massacre.  On that day, where were you?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: On that day I was my house, I was sleeping.

MR MADASA: Did you know Blanko?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, I know Blanko.

MR MADASA: Was he your neighbour?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, he was my neighbour.

MR MADASA: Okay, you were sleeping.  Carry on, what happened?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: At about half past eight Vusi Mthembu arrived to wake me up and he told me that Ntjebe sent him to wake me up to call me because a comrade was killed.

MR MADASA: Who was the comrade who was killed?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Comrade Sesi Bulelwa.

MR MADASA: Who was she, what organisation was she a member of?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: According to my knowledge she was a member of the ANC and she was the member of the street committee.

MR MADASA: Did you have a good relationship with her as SDU?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, a good relationship.

MR MADASA: Okay, continue.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Vusi arrived and he told me that Bulelwa had been shot and we left with Vusi to a place where we met the SDU's and Ntjebe said to me: " Bulelwa is dead, we must go to F section", because she was residing at F section but before that he applied Ntelesi, a traditional medicine.
	He poured us with Ntelesi, we then left.  We went to block F where Bulelwa's body was.  When we arrived she was dead.  Ntjebe and the vice chairperson of the section committee then left because they had to fetch the Red Cross together with a car to remove the corpse but before they could pass through block A they were shot at on their way.  	We stayed there until about past one.  Comrade Sugar  ...[intervention]

MR MADASA: When you say: "past one", was it in the morning or when?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It's past one in the morning.  And we were told that those who were employed should go home and sleep because we were supposed to rest for the next day.  Myself and comrade Nebe left, we went to sleep.
	When I arrived at my home it was not yet even one hour and I heard a knock at comrade Blanko's house and I thought that it was Ntjebe and Manyala because Blanko was the chairperson of the SDU.  I thought they were coming to address and issue of, I thought they were going to address an issue of Bulelwa's death, as to who killed her.  I did not take that into consideration. 
	And I heard glasses breaking and I woke up, I opened the door and Blanko's house was surrounded.  Others were already inside because the door was already open.  They were shooting inside Blanko's shack and I had a 9mm gun with me.

MR MADASA: Sorry, if you could speak slower please for the interpreters.  Did you see these people who had surrounded Blanko's house?  Did you identify them?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, Sir, some of them I know.

MR MADASA: Who are those?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I saw Tusanang who was one of them handling an AK47.

MR MADASA: Who is he?  His league, is it SDU or what?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: He was just an ordinary citizen, a resident.

MR MADASA: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I saw Vips, but he has since died.

MR MADASA: Was he SDU or Youth League?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Youth League.

MR MADASA: Do you know why Tusanang was there, the one who had an AK47, if he was not a member of the Youth League?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I did not know why he was involved because when we looked at this issue we thought that there elder people who actually sent them.  We thought to ourselves that there was a force pushing these young stars to do these actions.

MR MADASA: You thought Tusanang was behind the activities of the Youth League which were criminal?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Sir.

MR MADASA: Okay, carry on.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: When I went outside ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, just wait a minute.  Tusanang and Vips, are these only two persons you saw at Blanko's house?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Apart from these two, were there any other persons that you could identify?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I did not see the others.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR MADASA: When you say you did not see the others, do you mean you did not know them, you saw people but you did not know them or you couldn't see them because vision ...[intervention]

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It was dark, there were many.  You would not be in a position to thoroughly look at them for the purpose of identity.

MR MADASA: Continue.