Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-15

CHAIRPERSON: Before you go on Mr Prior, we have been given a bundle and you have also made available now, the original photographs which are the original of the photographs at pages 19 to 30 in the bundle.
	But part of the original photographs is a plan which I have referred to and should we perhaps give the original photographs and plan an Exhibit number.  Have we got any Exhibit?

MR PRIOR: No.  We can give it Exhibit A.

CHAIRPERSON: Exhibit A.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, on this point, I know I put up a bundle which contained several affidavits to which have been referred to.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps that bundle ought to be Exhibit A, and this will be Exhibit B.

MR PRIOR: Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairman, may I mention that we have not had sight of the map.  It was not part of the bundle.

MR PRIOR: Yes, that wasn't part of the bundle, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Let us also call Mr Madasi affidavit, Exhibit C, because I am saying C, because I have already numbered the others and I don't want to have to scratch them out.
	Would you like a short adjournment to look at this plan?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I think it only right that the Attorneys who have not seen the plan, should have the chance to see it, in case they want to put anything to the witness about it.  We will take a very short adjournment when I will make this plan available to them.  I regret the delay.
COMMISSION ADJOURNS

CHAIRPERSON: Before we go on, can we just record that we have now been given another affidavit, that of Lungisa Mzwonka Ntintili, which will be Exhibit D.

NKOPANE DIAHO-MONAHENG: (still under oath)

MR MTEMBU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, Mr Diaho-Monaheng would like to refute or retract an earlier statement with regard to the bullets that hit the old store room.
	Mr Diaho-Monaheng, would you now tell the Committee if indeed the bullets that hit the building adjacent to the hotel, could they be fired from your firearm or not?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: The explanation that I can give to Mr Mtembu's question is that the first statement I gave before seeing the two buildings.  I now saw the two buildings, and the building where six bullets are found, is a building on the other side of the hotel.
	If you were referring to the bullets on the building that we were facing, that is the main building, I won't dispute that, but now it is the other building.  I do not know.  That is my explanation.

MR LAX: Sorry, you were asked would those bullets have been fired from your firearm?  Please give a direct answer to that.  You have explained the context, but you haven't said whether they were or weren't fired from your firearm, or whether you can say whether they were fired from your firearm.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I am explaining sir, that I did not see the two buildings before, and after a perusal of the map, I do not believe those bullets were from my gun, because the building was far from the building that I was facing.
	If bullets were found on the building we were involved with, I wouldn't dispute that they might have been from my gun, but because they are now on this other building, I dispute that.
	I don't know whether I answered your question.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand from that, that you deny having fired shots at this other building?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: This is my answer sir.  I would have never shot at any other building, except the one that I was facing, I am against the fact that they might have been from my gun.
	That is why I say to you if the bullets were on the building that I was facing when I shot, I wouldn't dispute that.

CHAIRPERSON: I have heard you say that, I have asked you a simple question.  Do you deny firing the shots that hit that other building?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I disagree with that.

CHAIRPERSON: Does that mean you deny firing those shots?  Did you fire the shots that hit that other, old building?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I did not shoot.

MR MTEMBU: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.

MR MTEMBU: .

MR LAX: When you got out of the vehicle, you said that Nqeba went to the back of the building, and the two of you proceeded towards the bar.

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: That is correct, that is what I said.

MR LAX: Which direction, or let me start one step before that.  Where did you park the car?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: We parked the car at the front of the building that we were going to attack, that is at the side of the bar.

ADV GCABASHE: In front of the bar?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: In front of the bar.

MR LAX: I am going to show you the plan, and maybe you can try and give us some idea on that plan, if you will just hang on a minute, you will see on photograph 1, have a look at photograph 1, you will see there are some cars parked there.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, if I can interrupt.  If you will look at the coloured photograph 1, you will see in the background the door with the canopy over it, which is the door to the bar.

MR LAX: Correct.  Do you see that?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: Yes, I see that.

MR LAX: Then you can see there is some cars parked in the foreground of the picture?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I see them.

MR LAX: Where in relation to those cars, did you park?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I see two cars parked on the photo, we were parking on the right side of these two cars, not on their left side.
	We went to the building.

MR LAX: So you would have moved to your left, towards the bar entrance?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: When I moved from the car we were driving in, I went towards the left side, to the window.

MR LAX: Correct.  Now the earlier question, having set that context for you, the earlier question about where Mr Nqeba went, how did he move from the car?  Did he go around between the two buildings, down that passage towards the back of the building?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: He went to the back, the kitchen door.  There is a passage that he used, then he went to that side.
	He went between two buildings, I saw that clearer picture on that other photo.

MR LAX: Thank you.  So was the plan then that he would go to the kitchen door?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: The plan was that he would use the back door, that is the kitchen door and we would approach from the front.  I would stand next to the window, and our Commander, Mr Madasi will get into the bar.

MR LAX: You don't know whether he went inside the kitchen, or into the passages as you will have heard, questions being put to Mr Madasi.  Are you able to say anything about that?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: Because he was at the back, I do not know, I do not have full knowledge as to whether he got inside or not.  But when a report was given out, he reported that he went inside.

MR LAX: So he did report that?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: He reported that he got inside.  He said he was inside the kitchen.

MR LAX: You were present when he reported?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: I was present when he reported.

CHAIRPERSON: Who to?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: We were a unit gathering, discussing or reporting what happened after the attack.

MR LAX: So you haven't told us who he reported to.  Did the three of you report to each other, in each other's presence?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: We were three and those were the reports.  Before the Commander could take it further to the ones who issues out the instruction, we were reporting to each other about what happened there.

MR LAX: So that the Commander could prepare a report onwards, higher up the chain?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: That is correct.

MR LAX: So, Mr Madasi was present then when that report was made?

MR DIAHO-MONAHENG: He was present, we were three.

MR LAX: Well, you see in his evidence yesterday, he said no report of any nature, indicating that Nqeba had gone into the building, he said no such report was ever made to him, that was his evidence yesterday.
	What do you say about that?