Human Rights Violation Hearings — Krugersdorp — 1996-11-12

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, I was not a member of any organisation or committee.  I was just a person in the community of Toekomsrus.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was there a lot of conflict in that period between the police and the community?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Not really.  The conflict only emerged the
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
6 P STELLENBERG
previous night when the police entered Toekomsrus.  That was the Wednesday evening when the police and the soldiers entered Toekomsrus.  It was on the Thursday that the rioting started.

YASMINE SOOKA: What actually started the rioting?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I would not know because I am not a member of any of the organisations.  I simply attended the meetings being a member of the community and because I was interested in the ways in which we attempted to lower the rents and so on and trying to talk to the people about it, the people in authority.  We were unhappy because we as young people could afford it, but the old people could not afford it.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also mentioned in your evidence that there was a youngster who was shot.  I think you said Carno.

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that please?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I was not there at the time when they shot Carno.  We arrived there after Carno had already been shot and he was lying in the road.  The people then said Carno had died.  You could see that he was lying still and that he was indeed dead.  As the people said, it was the armoured vehicle that had also driven over Carno after he had been shot.  He was a very young person, he was about 17 or 18 years old at that time.

YASMINE SOOKA: I just want to get that clear.  You say he was shot and then after he was shot this armoured vehicle ran over him?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: That is how the people told us when we arrived there, yes.

YASMINE SOOKA: At the time when you were shot were other people
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
7 P STELLENBERG
shot with you?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, I was the only person who was shot.  It was only at that particular place where I was that any shooting happened and I do not know whether they shot anyone after I had been shot because I was immediately put in a private vehicle.  They wanted to put me in an ambulance, but then the people said no, do not put him in the ambulance, put him in a car and get him to a clinic because otherwise he is going to bleed to death.  From what I am told a white journalist of 702 Radio helped me.  He put a scarf around me to stop the bleeding.

YASMINE SOOKA: Was it your impression that the whole community was up in arms against the question of the rentals?  Was the community joined together in their protest against this?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Most of the people were opposed to it.  Especially as we went to the meetings we could see that people were really involved and their attention was aimed at helping the old people.

YASMINE SOOKA: Could you tell me.  I think you mention in your statement what your occupation was before the shooting.  Can you tell me now if you still are employed in that capacity and if you are able to work at all and what the circumstances are of your, whether you are able to contribute to the family finance, that sort of detail?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I still work.  I have just been off from work for about 12 weeks or six weeks, between ten or 12 weeks that I have been away from work.  My children suffered from this.  There was no income since I was the only breadwinner at home.  As I have said, at times I get very bad dreams and I am scared to look in a mirror because it reminds me of what I look like.  My own wife could not
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
8 P STELLENBERG
recognise me the first day that I was lying there in hospital.

YASMINE SOOKA: At the time of all these operations that you had, who actually paid for them?  Were they done at a hospital or were you on medical aid?  How were you able to afford all of them?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: I was fortunate to have had a very good medical aid.  If it was not for my medical aid, I do not know what would have happened to me and how I would have paid the expenses and the doctors.  Since most of the things in which I was helped I must thank, deeply, Dr Valley because he really helped me so that I am where I am at today.  I do not think how I would have paid people otherwise.

YASMINE SOOKA: Just two more questions.  Did you at any stage lay a charge against the police and did you bring a civil claim against the Minister?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, I did not lay a charge against the police.  I did not lay a charge against anyone.  While undergoing the final operation as I was lying in hospital my wife visited me and she said to me, Percy, you must come and live with my sister.  I asked her why and she said that they had heard a rumour in the township that the police were still looking for me.  I then said to her if that is the case, I was not a threat to anyone, I did not have a stone in my hand, I did not throw a stone at anyone.  Just because I said to these people that they must leave because they are just creating additional problems, that is why the person shot me.  Why should I run away from my home?  I am going to go to my home and if they want to arrest me, they must do so at my home if that is what has to happen.  Fortunately, they KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
9 P STELLENBERG
never came to my home.  Until today no one has come to me and I have made no charge because I was scared that if I went to the police station I would be arrested.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you know the name of the policeman who shot you?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, as I have said, I was talking to the men sitting inside the Casper armoured vehicle, but I did not see the person who came out from the top to shoot me.  I was standing on the ground and he came from out of the top of the vehicle.  I only saw a reflection that it was a white person, but I could not recognise his face or anything.  He was wearing glassed in any event.  As I was trying to turn around, because they had refused to go away, that is when I was shot.

YASMINE SOOKA: Do you remember the name of the journalist who assisted you at the time?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: No, I cannot.  I was just told that it was a journalist from 702.  A woman who helped me, a white woman.  She bent over me and she put the scarf around my face to stop the bleeding.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.  I have no questions and I will hand you over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Randera.

DR RANDERA: Percy, just tell me a little about Toekomsrus.

INTERPRETER: Dr Randera's microphone is not on.

DR RANDERA: Sorry.  I did press the button, but it did not work.  My apologies.  Percy, just tell me a little about Toekomsrus prior to, I mean, there is another statement here as well and both of you talk about rioting there.  Prior to this was Toekomsrus a very quiet, law-abiding community?

PERCY CHRISTIAAN STELLENBERG: Yes, Toekomsrus was a quiet community.
KRUGERSDORP HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
10 P STELLENBERG
There was never any rioting.  Most of the rioting we would only read about and hear about on the news.  It was very quiet in Toekomsrus until that time.  When this happened that the people were told that the Committee which they have founded to attempt to fight so that we could help the people to pay lower rent and these kinds of things.  It is only from that time that Toekomsrus became more riotsome and full of unrest.

DR RANDERA: The thing that triggered the riot was the killing of this young person.  Is that what you are telling us?