Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-07-15

MR VAN RENSBURG: Perhaps I can ask that question thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Can you give us an indication, you lived with the deceased, can you give us an indication what was his political feelings towards freedom and the government of the day?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: I cannot explain.  I never heard him discuss politics or government.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Did you ever hear him opposing the freedom struggle?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Not at all.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Can you just give us an indication of what you have lost?  Now we know that you have lost the house because it was burned down.  You have lost the tractor and the vehicles that were burnt out.  Can you give us some indication of what else you have lost because of this attack?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well as it was already explained, the cars, the house was destroyed, the window panes, the beds were burned, the wardrobes were burned; dining room suite and clothes.  We didn't have any clothes after the attack.

MR VAN RENSBURG: So you basically lost everything.  Okay.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Yes everything.

MR VAN RENSBURG: And what I want to ask you is, one of the applicants testified that at a later stage, after this attack on your house, there was some money collected as compensation and this money was handed to the Chief, have you received such compensation or any compensation?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I didn't receive.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Have you heard that the community has collected money for yourself?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I didn't hear that.

MR VAN RENSBURG: Is there anything else you want to add to your testimony?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN RENSBURG

ADV DE JAGER: The four small children, who supported them and paid for their school fees or anything?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: There are two boys who were working or who are working, Boy Ntheteni and Aubrey.  These were the people who were staying on the Reef who after the death of the late when I had gone to the place where I am now staying they were the ones who were supporting us, or are supporting.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndou have you got any questions?

MR NDOU: Just one or two questions.
	I just want to find out from you, since you now live at Chirore is it correct that the other children of the deceased never left their home, they remained there all the time?  Is that correct?

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: Well I can say that after the death of the deceased these two boys, Eric and Boshoff went to town to their brother.  Maureen went to her aunt and the house was empty.  When they were in town they thought that it will be difficult to get back home because there won't be - then they came back, sold
the tractor and repaired the house.

MR NDOU: I see.  And do you know that the children of the deceased have a good relationship with some of the applicants since some of them were released in April?  Are you aware of that?  And that they play soccer together, they attend functions together.

ROSINNAH MAHVUNGA: No I don't know because I am no longer staying with them.

MR NDOU: I see.  That is all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR NDOU

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel?
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairperson no further evidence will be led from the victims' side.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel do you intend to call any evidence?

MS PATEL: No I don't Honourable Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that - we've done with the evidence now?  Mr Ndou have you got any argument?

MR NDOU: Well without trying to be redundant I wouldn't want to - I think the evidence is well placed before the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Thank you Mr Chairman. I would actually like to address the Committee and I see it's now five to one, may I just ask what your time - what our time schedules are.

CHAIRPERSON: How long do you plan to argue for?

MR VAN RENSBURG: I think it will take about 20 minutes to perhaps 30 minutes and if it can be accommodated I would like a little bit of a break just to organise it and perhaps and that will also shorten the proceedings.

CHAIRPERSON: How is half-an-hour?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Ja that's fine.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Rensburg it's been suggested that we make an offer to you that you submit written argument within seven days.  I don't know if that will suit you?

MR VAN RENSBURG: Yes that will suit me fine.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel have you got any argument?

MS PATEL: No I will leave it in the hands of my colleague.  The only thing I wish to say would be on the question of the approach to witchcraft matters and I am quite willing to file heads of argument in that regard at a later stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes we've come to the end of this hearing.  I wish to thank the people who were involved in the logistics of arranging this hearing.  In particular I wish to thank the contribution of the interpreters.  I know a lot of people taken them for granted but they do a most important bit of work.
	I wish to thank all those who were party to this hearing and took the matter seriously.  
	We have listened to this evidence and we intend to consider the facts of the matter and to determine whether the applicants singularly are entitled to amnesty or not.
	I wish to thank the three legal people for the assistance they've rendered, though to differing degrees.  And I want to address the applicants and members of the family.
	It is true that this country has been ravaged by various actions involved in political considerations.  The reasons for those are embedded in the history of this country.  Many people have died unnecessarily.  We are now living in a new type of country where everybody is regarded as a human-being; where everybody has their rights, in particular that of the vote; there is a democracy in this country now and it is improving as time goes on.  
	We must realise that there is a society within South Africa.  We have got to start living together despite what has happened in the past - black and white and those who held different political views.  It is to be hoped that the applicants in this particular application, and those members of the family who were the victims of whatever happened on the 6th of April can see their way clear to entering the society as normal people.  And it is to be hoped further that as time goes on that the wounds can be healed.  I cannot hope that people would forget their loved ones, but I can certainly hope that they can start living together and bury the hatchet.  It doesn't mean that if you are able to forgive that you must forget.
	I thank you.
HEARING ADJOURNS