Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-02

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, IFP was now attacking everybody as long as you resided in Katlehong because Chairman, members of the IFP were not residing in the township because they were driven to the hostels.
	Residents from the township would not go to the hostel, people from the hostel would not even come to the township.  There were taxis belonging to the ANC, taxis belonging to, taxis belonging to the IFP and taxis belonging to the residents.  If you remember very well, Terreblanche even brought them potatoes.  They did not have transport at all.

MR MADASA: Okay, now let's come the call, to phone the SDU's.  You've given the background to the violence, when was first call made to phone in ...[intervention]

MR MALAN: I'm sorry, could I ask you to just hold onto this question.   If I understand you correctly, the township was - well let me say that the opposing parties were being divided, the township became ANC, the hostels became IFP.  I think I heard you say that the IFP were driven to the hostels, is that correct?  Is my understanding correct that the township was now ANC and the hostels were IFP?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And is the position that the ANC members who were at the hostels were also driven out into the squatter camps?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Sorry?  May you repeat your question Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, is the position that the ANC members who were in the hostel were also driven out into the Crossroads squatter camps?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: They were chased out of the hostels, there were no members of the ANC within the hostels, they left the hostels.  I don't know whether I should carry on or will you lead me?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, carry on.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: The people in the township who belonged to the IFP already left the township and the residents were using trains as their mode of transport and they were being shot at.  The residents decided that the Indela station would be the only station to be used.  The residents destroyed their railway lines.

MR MADASA: Can you describe for us, the Moleleki section which is in question here, where is it situated in the relation to the hostels?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Moleleki station two is about one and a half kilometres.

MR MADASA: One and a half kilometres from where to where?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: One and a half kilometres to the hostel.

MR MADASA: Which hostel?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Mazibuko, Qwesini and Bujafuti hostel.

MR MADASA: So Moleleki, was it the township facing the hostels?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, it was the last section but Kule and Kumalo, Seluma, those were the nearest to the hostel.  Moleleki was next to Zongezizwe and our members were driven out of that hostel.

MR MADASA: Who were the residents of Zongezizwe?  Were they ANC or IFP?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: IFP, it is dominated by IFP.  Our members were assaulted and they were driven out by the same stability and they were driven to Polla Park because ANC and IFP were fighting.  The IFP won the battle and they dominated.  Even a few Sotho speaking people are members of IFP.

MR MADASA: Now explain the, describe to us the various sections of Moleleki area.  How was it divided?  Did you have sections or blocks, and from which one to which one?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It was in blocks Chairman, it was divided into blocks.  We had block A, block B, block C, D, E, and F.

MR MADASA: It was A to F?  Moleleki was divided between block A to F?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It started with A up to F.

MR MADASA: Now, was Moleleki from A to F inhabited by the members of the ANC?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct.

MR MADASA: And was that area, that is from A to F, Moleleki from to A to F, under the protection of the SDU?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand the position, we are now at a stage where the IFP members have been driven out of the township, they're now at the hostel.  So the township including Moleleki is a section of Katlehong, is it part of Katlehong?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, Moleleki is part of Katlehong.

CHAIRPERSON: It was inhabited at that stage by ANC members?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: May you please repeat your question Sir?

CHAIRPERSON: You see, you told us that at some point IFP members who were in the township were driven out of the township into the hostel.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And ANC members who were at the hostels were also driven out of the hostels into the township and the ...[indistinct] squatter camps.   The position is that the townships were then occupied by ANC members in Katlehong, is that right?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Accept just one, Zongezizwe.  Zongezizwe was inhabited by the IFP but the rest of them were ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: Zongezizwe was not a hostel?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: It's a squatter camp Sir.

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.
	Let me ask you, how many - let's deal with the SDU structure, how was the structure divided?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: We had the central commander.

MR MADASA: Yes?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: We had the central commander, Mr Ngobo - N-G-O-B-O.

MR MADASA: Where did he stay?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: He resided at Shongweni section.

MR MADASA: In Katlehong?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

MR MADASA: Did he have a vice, deputy?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

MR MADASA: Who was it?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Manyala was his deputy, M-A-N-Y-A-L-A.

MR MADASA: And where did Manyala live?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: He resided in Kumalo but he has since died.

MR MADASA: Kumalo is in Katlehong?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That's correct.

MR MADASA: And then, below that structure, what was the next?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: There was a zonal structure.

MR MADASA: Who was in control of that?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Nkosi Kona Majola.

MR MADASA: Did he have an assistant?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, he had.

MR MADASA: Who?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Sugar was his assistant.

CHAIRPERSON: What was Majola's position?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: He was the Chairperson of the zonal structure.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MALAN: What was Sugar's name, his real name?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: This was his combat name, just Sugar, we didn't know his real name.

MR MADASA: And below that, what was the next structure?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: There was a sectional structure, this is the section were I was working under.

MR MADASA: Who was in control of the sectional command?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: The commander of this section was Ntjebe Ndondolo, N-T-J-E-B-E Ndondolo.

CHAIRPERSON: He was the Chairperson, was he?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR MADASA: Do you know Blanko, the man who was called Blanko?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: I know him Sir.

MR MADASA: What was his role in this command structure?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Blanko was the Chairperson of the SDU, he was chairing the meetings of the SDU.

CHAIRPERSON: Just before we get to Blanko, did Mr Ndondolo have a deputy?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: He didn't have a deputy Sir.

MR MADASA: Was Blanko under Ndondolo?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes Chairperson, he was working under Ndondolo who was the Chairperson of the SDU.

MR MADASA: What was the role of ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Wait a minute.  Just let me make sure how that I understand how these structures were made.  At the top you had the central commander and that Mr Ngobo of Shongweni section, is that right?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Mr Ngobo at the very top structure of the SDU's in the whole hierarchy?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: He was at the top?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: As the Commander.

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  And below that you had Manyala who was the Deputy Central Commander?

MOHALE OSCAR MOTLOKWA: Yes, that is correct.