Human Rights Violation Hearings — Upington — 1996-10-02

MR POTGIETER:  Thank you ... that full account of your experience.  Just to complete the picture, I just want to ask you one or two questions, I don't want to prolong this any further.  You have given us most of what happened.  You, both you and your husband spent just over two years in, on death row is that correct

WITNESS:  I don't remember well, I think it was just over two years.  We were not in the same place in prison, we were in different places.

MR POTGIETER:  Just a [indistinct] question - in 1985 when this incident happened, how old were you then?

WITNESS:  My years are according to my ID.  I have not changed my ID, it is still the same one.  In December during Christmas you can count from Christmas, you will know what, how old I am.

MR POTGIETER:  That's all right, it's not a problem, we will work that out.  In any case ...  Order please.  Can we get some order, thank you.  But in any event, when, in 85 when this happened you had big sons, you had grown-up sons you were saying, is that correct?

WITNESS:  I had three sons.  I have got four grown- up sons.

MR POTGIETER:  I just noted that in 85 when this happened you were 54 years old according to our records.  That is just for the record.

WITNESS:  Yes sir, I think so.

MR POTGIETER: I just want to hear if my colleagues have any questions for you.  Glenda?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Mamma, I just want to ask one short question.  Your husband, oupa Gideon, would he have wanted to testify today and do you think that if he were to be alive today he would have been sitting next to you and testifying as well?

WITNESS:  Yes we had both decided.  We had heard that the Commission would come here.  We both decided that we will come.  On Sunday at sunset before two people came to me I was lying down, my body was sore.  When I looked next to my wardrobe I saw my husband, he was wearing green pants and a khaki shirt, he said to me, he said listen this is the dress you must wear at the Commission.  I asked myself, I said to myself I do not have such a beautiful black dress, then there was a child called me saying your sister is standing outside.  I got up, I didn't see anyone.  I told my sister that my husband is pushing me to go to the Commission.  He shall also be there.  That is what I want to say.  I know that he would have been here.   He would have been here.  He would have given his own evidence.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT:  So you are speaking also on his behalf today and I am sure that you are also feeling that ... end of Tape, side A ... us in spirit.

WITNESS:  Yes he is here, I am sure, and as God has performed miracles for me, my husband is here today, he is listening to me.  If I were to lie my husband would know.  I still cannot get over that I was taken to jail, a small filthy place and I was innocent.  I cannot have survived all this if God were not with me.  I said to my Lord this morning that if I want to cry I should not cry at the Commission, I should cry back home.  I asked my son if he wants to come, he said he cannot go, he cannot be here.  I begged them, I told them I would not break down.  I will break down at home.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you Mama, thank you very much.

MR POTGIETER: Ms De Bruin thank you for coming.  We have noted that you said you had some misgivings, you were not sure whether you must come or not but we are very glad that you came and you shared a most unusual experience with us.  Thank you for that.  We have noted what you have said.  We have extended our condolences previously and we hope that you will be able to overcome this experience in some way or the other and we want to wish you well.  Thank you very much.