Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

MR MAY: During that time, the Pepcore was divided into two 
groups.  It was destroyed, and there were two groups formed, 
there is Kosana and Mr Botha.  I decided to step down, I was 
no longer working as a person who was working in Barclays 
Bank then, I discovered that if I was going to concentrate 
on politics, I was not going to gain anything.  I decided to 
work for myself.

MR SANDI: Just before we go to the list of things that 
happened to you because of these accusations, I would like 
to ask a question.  Are your comrades, the very comrades 
that you were with in that Pepcore Organisation, did you 
tell them the reasons for you to quit.

MR MAY: The majority of the Pepcore, with the majority of 
the Pepcore Founders, we stepped in.

MR SANDI: Can we go now to the details, where you say as a 
businessman, you started a business as a Paratics man in 
1984, and you got married.  What incident took place in your 
life during the time you were a businessman because of these 
accusations in 1980.

MR MAY: The first one that I can talk about, on a certain 
day, I was on my way to a business meeting.  I went past 
Motherwell.  My business was in Motherwell, because I was 
evicted from my house.  I was in front of Mr Klaasie's house 
who is a brother of Mr Golo, the owner of the Themba Labanto 
Supermarket.  He was also a business partner, we were going 
to a meeting on that particular day.  I went past his house.

MR SANDI: Do you refer to this particular day in 1985, 
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D MAY: whereby the Themba Labanto Supermarket in Veeplaas, where 
you had a business.

MR MAY: Yes, I am referring to that particular day, but my 
business was in Motherwell Township, but I went to another 
businessman who was in Veeplaas because we were going to the 
same meeting.

MR SANDI: Let us talk about that day at Themba Labanto 
Supermarket.  You say people came in, on that particular 
day, people who called themselves comrades, or the people 
that you believed were comrades, these people abducted you? 
What did they say, did they give you any reasons for this 
abduction?

MR MAY: They said that I sold out Mr Botha.

MR SANDI: Do you know these people who were doing this?

MR MAY: If I can go up and down, I can get one of them, but 
I don't know, nobody knows who were doing these things, but 
it is not very easy to point them, but they were comrades.

MR SANDI: You mentioned two gentlemen in your statement.  
You say that they helped you to escape.  Can you briefly 
tell about how you knew the men?

MR MAY: If the two gentlemen that you are referring to are 
Mr Glass and Mr Aplay, I am not sure if you are talking 
about them, can you please confirm that?

MR SANDI: Yes, I wanted you to mention those names, thank 
you.  ...(Tape ends)...

MR MAY: Because we were going to attend a meeting together. 
 He is the one, that when these comrades abducted me, he 
forced that he was not going to be left behind.  He followed 
with his car, behind my car, the one that was taken by these 
comrades.  Mr Glass saw where these comrades took me.

MR SANDI: You said that this Mr Glass, is late now, what 
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D MAY: was the cause of his death, is it because of that conflict?

MR MAY: No, he died in a car accident.

MR SANDI: Before we go further, I want to ask this 
question, you say that on this particular day, you survived 
the necklace, they were going to necklace you?

MR MAY: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Was there any evidence that they were going to 
necklace you?  Did they have a tyre?

MR MAY: The petrol was drained from my car, and they were 
even going to use my own spare wheel, and my petrol.

MR SANDI: On the 31 December 1991, you say that among the 
businesses that you had, you say that you had a butchery, a 
club house?

MR MAY: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Before we talk about that, I would like to go 
back to that second gentleman, who helped you, besides Mr 
Aplay.  Is that Mr Sitelo Aplay who was head of the Anti 
Crime?

MR MAY: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Yes, we can go on now.  You say that in that Club 
House on the 31 December, can you briefly tell us what 
happened?

MR MAY: On the 31 December, about 730 in the evening, 
people fought in my tavern.

MR SANDI: Who were fighting?

MR MAY: It was me, and the other comrades who were about 9.

MR SANDI: Is there anything that they said concerning the 
accusations of Mr Botha?

MR MAY: There was nothing, there was no accusation which 
was connected to Mr Botha, besides the fact that they were 
saying that I am rich because of the money from the Boers.  
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D MAY: Though I was telling them to go home, because I wanted to 
close the Tavern.

MR SANDI: Do you say that this attack is connected to this 
accusation of Mr Botha?

MR MAY: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: Can you tell us the reason why you reconcile the 
two, whereas they said nothing concerning that accusation?

MR MAY: These people were comrades, who abducted me, who 
were going to necklace me.  It was also the comrades who sat 
in my house forcefully.  The fact that they said that I was 
rich because of the money from the Boers, as a person who 
was an informer, who sold Mr Botha, that is the reason why I 
connect the two.

MR SANDI: Do you say, on the 1 January 1992, when you went 
to your businesses, you were told that there were combis 
that are looking for you, the combis that belonged to the 
comrades, did they tell you who these comrades were?

MR MAY: No, I was not told.  They just said to me that the 
comrades were looking for me, the comrades from Motherwell 
were looking for me.

MR SANDI: But because you heard that it was a combi that 
was looking for you, you decided to go and see a certain 
gentleman whom you refer as Mr Mondem Ntanga, who was the 
chairman of the Mother Well Civic Organisation.  Did you 
talk with Mr Ntanga?

MR MAY: Before I could talk to Mr Ntanga, they arrived, the 
workers arrived before I could even open the business.  When 
I opened the business, the comrades came and told me that 
they want me in there meeting but they didn't tell me the 
reason.  I decided to go and meet the chairman of the branch 
of the Pepcore of Motherwell, which was Mr Ntanga then.  I 
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D MAY: wanted to know the agenda for that meeting.

MR SANDI: The investigation that Mr Ntanga said he was 
going to make concerning this.  Was there anything that you 
gathered from that?

MR MAY: When I arrived there, before 1000, I went to him 
as a person, who was a chairman because I wanted to know 
more about the agenda because he told me that he is not 
clear about the agenda, because it is the ASEP, and Azapo.  
He is not the one who called the meeting.

MR SANDI: Do you mean that you arrived in the meeting which 
had it's own matters that were to be discussed?

MR MAY: Yes, that is correct.

MR SANDI: By the way, you said what happened to your 
butchery?

MR MAY: In this meeting, I was requested to wait outside.  
They called me at about 1130.  At about 1130 I was told 
that the decision has been taken that I must go and close 
down all my businesses in Motherwell and I must leave Mother 
Well before 1200 that day.

MR SANDI: Who took over your butchery, the butcher that you 
complained about?

MR MAY: First of all, I closed my butchery because it was 
the 1 December 1992.  I closed my butchery and everything 
was rotten, especially the food.  I tried to consult people 
telephonically, I was writing to them, I was going to the 
people personally for help, but instead of getting a 
positive answer from these people, after three of four 
months, I discovered that someone has taken over by the name 
of Wiseman Kula, who was the co-chairman of that meeting 
where he requested that I close my butchery.