Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

UNKNOWN: Thank you , what is your other request ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: I think that it would be important for the community of Zwelitsha to have a Community Centre.

UNKNOWN: Did you lay a charge, or did you contact any attorneys concerning this matter ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: We contacted Mr Thabata, concerning this.

UNKNOWN: What is happening in your case ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Nothing is happening at this time and I would also like the Commission to follow this, to investigate, especially at what happened at Nompendulo. We would like a case to be opened, to be, so that we can find answers at what was happening there.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, let me hand over to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Tiny Maya ?

MS MAYA: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Ndudula, I have  few questions for you to try and get some clarity in certain issues.  In these different occasions  you said that you were  arrested  in 1984,  1985 and 1987.  You also mentioned various names of people.  I would like you to specify who arrested you in 1984.  Who were involved ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: In 1984.  In 1984, the police who were involved who were the security police in Ciskei, were Moss, Mashibeni, Kolela, Archi and Ulani.

MS MAYA: Thank you.  You've already mentioned the names I was going to ask you about.  Mr Moss, Mr Kolela and Mr Mashibeni, the 3 of them are involved in 1984, 1985 and 1987?.
 In 1985.  Let us concentrate on the 3 of them.  In 1985, were they involved?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They were part of the investigating team.  They were investigating people who were politically active.

MS MAYA: These people, they arrested you, they tortured you, in 1984.  Were you tortured in 1984 or were you assaulted ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They were just harassing me.  In 1984, we were arrested as a group.

MS MAYA: Did they torture you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: No.

MS MAYA: In 1985,  in 1985, they did not assault you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: No.

MS MAYA: In 1987 ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: It was in 1986 and in 1987.  Kolela got me in 1987, others, they did not get me.

MS MAYA: What did Kolela do to you in 1987 ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: He took me to Tamarha in 1987, he left me in Zone 6.  In Zone 6, you would know who was beating you, because they would blindfold you with the tee-shirts of UDF.  It is difficult to identify them.

MS MAYA: After  they've  taken  you to  Tamarha or Zone 6, what did he do to you, or what would you, what do you believe he did to you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: He arrested me.

MS MAYA: You did not see him assaulting you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: I couldn't, because I was blindfolded.

MS MAYA: But you believe that he was one of the people who were assaulting you.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Yes, I think so, as he was the person who arrested me.

MS MAYA: But you didn't see him?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: No.

MS MAYA: After he took you to Zone 6, what did he do to you, what else did he do to you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: What do you mean Ma'am ?

MS MAYA: Did he torture you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They were looking for me all the time.

MS MAYA: When were you released in 1987 ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They took me to Zone 6 at about 8 in the morning.  They took me from Tamarha to Zone 6 at that time.  I was released after 4.

MS MAYA: All this time, were they assaulting you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They assaulted me for a certain period and they stopped, because the students were toytoying in Amasele.  They had to go there.

MS MAYA: How were they torturing you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: They would tie you in a chair and I was tortured by electric shocks while I was blindfolded.

MS MAYA: Where did they electrify you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: In my hands and in my legs.

MS MAYA: Who did you see ?.  Who was doing this to you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: The problem is that I did not know all the police who were in the security force in Zone 6.  It is difficult for me to say their names, but I can identify them if I can see them.

MS MAYA: You mentioned Kolela.  Did you see him hit these people ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Yes, I would see him sometimes.

MS MAYA: What about Moss, what did he do to you ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Moss was harassing me.

MS MAYA: How ?

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Because he would go and look for me at home.  One day, they got me in Zone 10.  I was there with my friend, we were studying.  They came in together with Mr Mashibini.  At that time, they were looking for my friend.  They asked me whether I'm Jeremiah, I said no, but they did not arrest us at that time, they just said that we must stop what we were doing.

MS MAYA: After that, did he do anything to you ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: What I can say is that they were harassing me, but they, the problem is that they wouldn't get me, because I was not sleeping at home from 1985 until 1988

MS MAYA: In other words, they would go and look for you at home, but they would not find you.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Moss did not assault you in any way ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: No.

MS MAYA: What about Mashibini ?.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: Mashibini did not arrest me either, because I was running away from him.

MS MAYA: When you mentioned their names, you were just mentioning people who were looking for you at home, except for Kolela, because you said that Kolela was part of the people who were torturing you.

JEREMIAH NDUDULA: I mentioned these names, because I thought that these people were the ones that were harassing me in my life.  I could not stay at home like any other children, that is why I mentioned their names, because I knew them.

MS MAYA: Thank you, Mr Ndudula.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank both of you.  Mr Dorrington will come forward and dispute what Mr Ndudula has said.  That is why Ms Maya asked these questions, because she wanted to be sure about what exactly happened, so that we can put questions to Mr Dorrington.  Thank you Ma'am.  We thank you the your story you presented to us.  We have also noted your stories.  You can now go back to you seat and we'll request Mr Dorrington to come forward.
          Mr Dorrington you are appearing for Mr Kolela, Mashibini and Mr Moss.  Is that correct ?

MR DORRINGTON: That is correct, Mr Chairman, if I may, at this stage ... (interrupted)

CHAIRPERSON: Just before you start.  You are aware of the oral evidence which has been given by the witness in this case, Jeremiah Ndudula.  I don't think, as a Commission  you'd  want us,  we want  you  to dwell  on  Mashibini and Moss.  It is clear from the oral evidence, that, the written evidence is being, been disputed by the witness himself, that he has actually listed these as people who were, who assaulted him  or who tortured him.  Perhaps we should not waste our time addressing those two issues, we would want to refer those back to the Commission for closer scrutiny, but the case of Mr Kolela, perhaps that's the one that you should address us on.

MR DORRINGTON: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, if I may, at this stage, ask if Mr Kolela could come up here himself.  He's prepared to answer any questions which may be put to him.

CHAIRPERSON: I'm very sorry, I meant calling him as well.  I didn't realize that he is present, Mr Kolela.

MR DORRINGTON: Mr Chairman, if I may also just place in...

CHAIRPERSON: Just like to place Mr Kolela under oath.  Mr Kolela, could you stand up.

MR KOLELA: (sworn states)