Amnesty Hearings — Witbank — 2000-01-31

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: No, they were not there.
We took turns in providing security by going outside and checking for passers by.  Thabang did the real assembling and we assisted and then Comrade Silver connected the remote control gadget.  During that very morning, Thabang asked to proceed as this was the day the Security Police and their friends were going to get the shock of their lives.  Thabang ordered me to drive the Mazda, the vehicle which we used to go to Witbank the previous night.  He ordered Silver to come with me in the Mazda.
		Thabang further told me that I should follow him into town and when we reached the taxi rank we should stop and that after parking that bomb car, he will return to us on foot.  The taxi rank, if I remember well, was on the same street as the Special Branch Offices.

CHAIRPERSON: What car was Thabang driving?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: A Cortina.
I indeed followed Thabang's car and parked at the taxi rank.  ... (indistinct) proceed and parked the car and he walked back to us.  He told me to drive off, which I did.  As I was driving, he pressed the button on the remote control gadget and I heard an explosion.  Smoke was visible from the direction of the said offices.  I was told to go straight to Bigaiwe and we went to Vosloorus.
	I'd like to thank the Committee for giving me the opportunity to appear and I'd like to apologise to the innocent people who were caught during the cross-fire who were not the intended targets and I would like to apologise for those who got arrested for this matter.  Thank you.

MR KOOPEDI: Now, Mr Nyalunga, do you regard this action as having been politically motivated, despite the fact that you were acting under orders of someone senior to you?  Do you regard this matter as having been politically motivated?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: Yes, I do.

MR KOOPEDI: What would have been the political motivation?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I think basically to know that by then the Special Branch were the cutting edge for the Government of the day, they were the people who were used to oppress all political discontent in the country and therefore, by virtue of their role, they were a target and that was political.

MR KOOPEDI: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: May I interpose Mr Koopedi?

MR KOOPEDI: Yes, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: In your evidence-in-chief you have just stated that Kholile or Thabang as you have referred to him, was the one who selected the target.  Were you aware of the what the target was?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: Yes, because at one point I went to check out the place.

CHAIRPERSON: So you knew that this was ...(intervention)

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: That these were the offices ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The offices of the ...(intervention)

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: The offices of the Special Branch.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Mr Koopedi, that should come to our assistance.

MR KOOPEDI: Yes, thank you, Chairperson.  Now in as far as you can recall, do you think you have told this Honourable Committee all there is to tell?  That is you have fully disclosed what your involvement has been or was in this operation?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: Yes, I think I've done it.

MR KOOPEDI: Now did you receive any personal gain?  Were you paid?  Did you receive anything materially for having participated in this operation?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: Not at all.  MK was not - was a volunteer, I never used to get any salaries, it was only your dedication that counted.

MR KOOPEDI: Chairperson that will be the evidence for the applicant.  Thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Koopedi.  Mr Mbethe, do you have any questions to put to Mr Nyalunga?

MR MBETHE: Yes Madam Chair and my first question relates to what Mr ...

CHAIRPERSON: Nyalunga.

MR MBETHE: Nyalunga stated before he finished, the fact that he knew the target and he had seen the target before.  Now my question is, did you at any stage, or rather maybe my question should be phrased this way, on what day in particular of the week, did you yourself go and see the target?  Do you remember whether it was during the week or it was on a weekend?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: No, it was during the week.  I cannot be exact to the day.

MR MBETHE: And I will tell you why I'm asking you this question, the reason is you have told this Committee already that when you went to Witbank it was on a Sunday and when you placed the bomb, it was on a Monday.  Now you know everyone would know that the conditions and the situation and the environment would not be the same in the vicinity if it is in a Sunday, than it would be if it is a Monday, so basically my question is related to you having checked the target and having satisfied yourself that the target is a proper one, so have you done enough research or have you seen enough of the target to can decide whether it was indeed a proper target?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I didn't go to Witbank on that Sunday, I've been to Witbank on other occasions.  When we went to Witbank on Sunday it was on the final date of the operation.

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I think maybe I didn't make my question clear.  My question is, we know that the conditions would not be the same on a Sunday than they would be on a Monday.  In other words, there would be people on a Monday, it's a working day.  People would be moving up and down.  Now have you familiarised yourself with the conditions as they would be on the day when the bomb would have to go off?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbethe, I thought he had responded to that question and his response was pertinently that he went there during the week, not on a Sunday.

MR MBETHE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When he accompanied Thabang on that reconnaissance mission.

MR MBETHE: Thank you Madam Chair.  Now, I think you have been told already that none of the people that were targeted, this is the Security Forces, were affected by the bomb and in fact innocent people were the ones who were targeted.  Do you now in retrospect still believe that enough research was done by yourself and your Commander as to the properness of the place that you had targeted?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I have no idea with regards of the casualties that were involved but in our consideration of the case will be that the possibilities might be there of innocent people being killed, but the main target was the offices of the Special Branch, I don't know whether there were no people by then because according to what we checked out, there were people in the building.  If they were not hurt, I don't know how come.

MR MBETHE: Do you remember exactly what time the bomb was to take off, or to explode?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I can't remember the exact time, but it was in the morning hours.

MR MBETHE: We know now that you were involved in the setting up of the bomb itself.  What type of a bomb was it?  Was it a time bomb, or what type?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: I think I've explained that Thabane detonated the bomb to a remote control mechanism.  It's a remote control which would detonate immediately you want it to detonate.

MR MBETHE: And nothing was said as to when the remote control should be made ready for the bomb to explode, this is when you were busy assembling the bomb?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: No there was a time device, that is for protection, for transportation, during the process of transporting the bomb so that nothing happens, but immediately that it's armed, depended on the remote control mechanism.

CHAIRPERSON: But you were aware that the bomb would be detonated during that morning?

PHILIP MAKWALE NYALUNGA: Yes.

MR MBETHE: So basically the consideration was that the bomb should not explode whilst you were still travelling to the place.  But what happened thereafter, there doesn't seem to have been consideration thereof, would this be a correct assessment?

CHAIRPERSON: I don't get your question Mr Mbethe.