Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

ADV MOTATA: More or less what I want from you is not the other names, you told us that you don't remember their names, but more or less of how many people did your group consist of?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I think we were around eight, if not nine.

ADV MOTATA: Those who emerged from the veld next to block C, when you captured them, did you just march them back to block F?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: Yes, we just caught them and then we escorted them to block F, they were not touched, we were only asking them questions and they gave us explanations that the goods in their position were taken from Blanko.

ADV MOTATA: And the group which consisted of more or less eight people had assortments of weapons with, and if we may mention you, you had an axe with, would that not be right?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: Yes, I had an axe.   That is an axe I used that other side when they were killed.

ADV MOTATA: And your objective when you wanted to capture these people were to take them back to block F, do I understand you correctly?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: Yes, we were taking them to block F where they committed these crimes.

ADV MOTATA: Now would you tell us the difference between the two who emerged from the veld from block C and when you eventually captured Jabulani Nkmalo, why Jabulani was now injured, because that was not the aim, to assault anybody but to take them to block F?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: It's a mistake that Jabulani was injured, because when we arrived, others disputed the fact that he was present, they said no, he was not involved.

ADV MOTATA: Tusanang was captured, isn't it so?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

ADV MOTATA: Was he taken to the shack where the others were kept?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct, sir.

ADV MOTATA: Would you explain how he managed, because we have evidence to the effect that he ran away, how he ran away when he was kept with the others in the shack, according to you?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: One member of the executive committee of the SDU, Mr Michael Sonti, took him out of the shack, he said he must not be tied with the others, he must be taken before the community to give them an explanation, because everybody was pointing a finger at him, that himself and Buthelezi were actually pushing them behind.  ...(tape ends)

ADV MOTATA: Let's get to the incident of the massacre on the 7th of December 1993.   Amongst the weaponry, there were AK47's, isn't it?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

ADV MOTATA: And these people were shot at after having been ordered to sit down, isn't it so?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

ADV MOTATA: When you were ordered, for instance, to use your axe on Buthelezi senior, after being shot, was he still alive?

ADV MOTATA: He was still moving, it's an indication that he was still alive, he was shot at the head.

ADV MOTATA: Could you probably, because you admitted that you used your axe on him, where precisely on the head was he shot?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I think he was shot right at the back.

ADV MOTATA: When they were ordered to sit down, were they facing you people, that is the SDU's who were to finish them off?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: They were facing the opposite direction, members of the SDU were behind them.

ADV MOTATA: Explain this to me, or us rather, you, at some stage, patrolled with the Youth League, that is the ANC Youth League, you formed one unit, isn't it so?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

ADV MOTATA: And they subsequently separated themselves from you?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: Yes, subsequently they separated themselves from us.

ADV MOTATA: There were allegations that the people who committed criminal acts were these people who had separated themselves from you?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: It appeared so, because even during the time when we operated together, they would be in possession of a car and we would ask them, "Guys, where did you get this car?", they won't give us a reply, but at a later stage when we investigate, you would find that this car was hijacked from someone.

ADV MOTATA: Did you have concrete evidence against them, that is the ANC Youth League, that they committed these acts of criminality, or you suspected them to have committed such acts?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I was unemployed during that time, I saw them driving these cars, I saw them getting into tuckshops, looting people's properties, I saw them.
	And if action against them was intended, it was easy to identify them and take action that they do not proceed with these acts of criminality, for instance handing them over to the police, because you had identified these people?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: There was no co-operation with the police at that time, I hope you know the situation that was in place at that time.

ADV MOTATA: Let's suppose you wanted to stop these acts of criminality and you were not co-operating with the police, how did you intend to deal with the people who were committing these acts of criminality?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I believe it is one of the reasons, or it is a reason why they were captured, because after they were killed, the crime stopped and the police were not involved here, all the killings and the lootings stopped.

ADV MOTATA: Had there, it might border on speculation, had these acts continued, whoever was captured would be killed?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: If these people were not killed, these actions would have carried on, they were reprimanded on several occasions, but they did not want to listen.

ADV MOTATA: Thank you, Mr Chair, I've got no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: The people that you killed were the people that you believed were engaged in criminal activities in Moleleki section?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So when you killed these people, you believed that you were really killing criminals?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: These individuals that you killed did not come from the hostels, right?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: Yes, that's right.

CHAIRPERSON: They were not members of the IFP, right?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I do not know whether they had an association with the IFP, but they pronounced themselves members of the ANC, but we were not sure as to whether they were members of the ANC Youth League according to what they were doing.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you have any information which suggested that they were members of the IFP?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything arising, Mr Madasa?

UNKNOWN: Yes, Mr Chair, just on the last question that you asked.

UNKNOWN: When you say you did not have information if these people were associated with the IFP, are you saying you personally, or are you saying the SDU, as a unit, did not have that information?

LANGA MICHAEL NKOMO: I had never received any information to that effect, I personally did not have that knowledge, I don't know whether other members of the SDU knew that they were associated with the IFP.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mapoma?

MR MAPOMA: No questions.
NO FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR MAPOMA

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much.   Thank you, Mr Nkomo, you may return to your seat.   Yes Mr Madasa?
WITNESS EXCUSED

UNKNOWN: Mr Chair, I call applicant No 6, Paulos Matilepula Singo.
PAULOS MATILEPULA SHONGWE:  (sworn states)

UNKNOWN: Mr Shongwe, how old are you?

MR SHONGWE: 25 years, sir.

UNKNOWN: 25?

MR SHONGWE: 25.

UNKNOWN: How far did you go at school?

MR SHONGWE: Standard eight, sir.

UNKNOWN: What was your role in the SDU in 1993?

MR SHONGWE: I was an operator.

UNKNOWN: Were you trained in handling firearms?

MR SHONGWE: Yes, I was trained.

UNKNOWN: Where did you live in 1993 in Katlehong?

MR SHONGWE: I was at Moleleki, Extension 2.

UNKNOWN: Which block?

MR SHONGWE: Block D.

UNKNOWN: Did you participate in the killings of December 1997?

MR SHONGWE: Yes I did.

UNKNOWN: Did you participate in the capturing of people who were taken to the shack?