Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

MR PAPIER: Yes, Captain, my question is, if you look at those three statements and the Commanding Officer gave you instructions, that is what he said in his statement, go to number 8 and you wrote that in your statement, we went to number 8, you corroborated the fact but you also state in the first sentence and say "our task was to survey the land around the site as well as this whole site".
	We want to ask what site?  I want to say that that was number 8.

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I quote again, the address which was mentioned after this incident, was number 8, but there was no information available that we had to go to number 8, in the first place.
	We went to the house next-door at first.

MR PAPIER: Thank you.  Is it correct to say that your instructions were to survey that area and to determine whether the deceased was not there?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: We had to see whether the deceased was in one of those houses.

MR PAPIER: Your instruction was not to go directly to number 8?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: If I can give more clarity.  They said to - the houses in that street is on one side of the road and I had to go from house to house to determine whether he was there.
	It was just by chance that the deceased was in number 8.

MR PAPIER: What I want to put to you is that according to your statement, that is an inaccurate version of what precisely happened there.  That is regarding that instruction?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Mr Chairman, I want to put it in this way.  I did not go there by myself.  I did not go there of my own accord.  I acted under instructions to survey that area.
	If I had to go to number 8 specifically and not any other houses, I believe that the person who sent me directly to that house, that was Lieutenant Liebenberg, that he would have been sure that that was the correct house, and there would have been a completely different activity.

MR PAPIER: I understand your explanation.  Why do you not say that in your statement before his Commission?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I am saying this now.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything really material that turns on this?

MR PAPIER: I will be submitting Honourable Chair that a number of other inconsistencies will be pointed out to the Honourable Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Are they material?

MR PAPIER: I submit, yes, Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

JUDGE WILSON: And you will bear in mind that this statement was not, as you've just said, prepared for this Committee.  This statement was prepared in 1987?

MR PAPIER: Indeed Honourable Judge and I submit with respect with regard to that, that a statement should have been prepared for this Honourable Committee but the applicant has elected to present a defective statement to his Honourable Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we must look at the real contents of the case.  Proceed.

MR PAPIER: As you please, Honourable Chair, thank you. Captain, we will continue then.  You and your colleague, Abels, what were you wearing, what were you wearing?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: We were wearing overalls, from the Cape Town Municipal Sanitary Services.

MR PAPIER: You were disguised?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Yes.

MR PAPIER: Are you saying that in your statement?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I said we were wearing civilian clothes.

MR PAPIER: Are you saying that you were wearing Municipal overalls and that you were disguised, you are not saying that?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: No, I am not saying that in my statement.

MR PAPIER: According to your statement, it appears that the reason why you did not go to the front door, was because there was a trellis door with a lock, is that correct?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: If that was the reason why I did not go to the front door, I accept it.

MR PAPIER: I am asking you.  That is what you were saying in your statement, I am trying to understand.  I am sorry, paragraph 5.

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Mr Chairman, this happened a long time ago. I said that there was a trellis door attached to the front door, I see nowhere that I did not approach that door.

MR PAPIER: Did you go to the front door then?  Your evidence before this Committee was that you went to the back door, isn't that true?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Yes, it happened.  This incident happened at the back door of the house.

MR PAPIER: I want to establish why you did not knock at the front door?  The basis of your evidence is that you only wanted to gain some information, is that correct?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Yes, that is correct.  Today I can't even remember whether that trellis door was right in front of the front door or whether there was a little stoep attached to that, where you could perhaps not approach the doorbell at the front door.

MR PAPIER: Right, Captain, the vehicle which took you to these premises, were they also disguised?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is correct.

MR PAPIER: Which vehicle did you use?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I used a little police van with usual registration plates and I also used a label of the Cape Municipality Sanitary Service, Cleansing Branch.

MR PAPIER: Did the Municipality give you assistance, did they provide it to you?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: The Municipality did not know what my plans entailed.  I maintain that it was only a reconnaissance activity and therefore I borrowed these overalls from the Municipality.

MR PAPIER: They knew you were a policeman from the Security Branch?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: The person who provided these overalls to me, was a member of the Municipality.  I knew him, I approached him for these overalls, but he did not have any further knowledge.

MR PAPIER: Who was he?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: It was a Mr Sterrenberg.

MR PAPIER: Is it correct to say that you were armed with your service pistol, a spade and a piece of pipe when you went to this house in number 8?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: At this stage, I would like to say that I carried my side pistol, which was attached to my pants with an overall over that.  I had a spade, yes, which was used to clean the manholes and unless I understand you wrong, I can't say that I used the spade as a weapon.
	I used this to uncover the lids of the manholes.

MR PAPIER: Did you say this in your statement, yes or no?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I read through this and I see that I am not mentioning the spade.  I did not mention the pipe either.  I don't know where this pipe story comes in.

MR PAPIER: I am putting it to you that you and Abels went to this house in a fraudulent way, to number 8.  Do you agree with me?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I cannot agree with you.

MR PAPIER: Was it in an honest way?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I was busy with the execution of my duties.  I was disguised.

MR PAPIER: You wanted to pretend that you were not from the police, but that you were coming from the Municipality, the water department?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is correct.

MR PAPIER: Was it like that?

JUDGE WILSON: How does that become fraudulent?  A policeman who is looking for what he suspects to be a terrorist, and you are now suggesting it is fraudulent that he should wear some cover up?

MR PAPIER: Honourable Judge, I am submitting or I will submit at the end of the day that the statement before this Honourable Committee is not a true and honest disclosure of what happened on that day.  I submit with the greatest amount of respect that this is a different forum and the families, my clients have come to hear the truth.
	The applicant before this Honourable Committee has elected to once again, I submit, place facts before this Honourable Committee which does not amount to the truth with regard to what happened on that day.