Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-29

MR HATTINGH: Be that as it may, when you signed the document on page 6 thereof, were you given the opportunity of reading through the document making sure that the contents thereof was correct before you signed it?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Would you please repeat the page?

MR HATTINGH: It is in bold black numbering, it is on page 149.   You find your signature at the bottom of the page.  All I am asking you is, at the time when you put your signature there, when you signed the document, were you given the opportunity of reading your application form to make sure that everything that was noted on the application form, was in fact correct?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.

MR HATTINGH: And have you once again, when this hearing started and before giving evidence, once again gone through your application form to familiarise and refresh your memory?

PELELE L SHONGWE: No.

MR HATTINGH: I have asked you to give the reasons why you killed Bongani Malinga and despite giving you full opportunity to do so, you never mentioned anything about Bongani attacking you personally, you or your house.  Is that correct?

PELELE L SHONGWE: No, that is not correct.  I think I have already given you the explanation.
	As I have earlier on indicated that Bongani Malinga was a problem to my organisation and the community, having played a very prominent role in the Black Cats.
	I went as far as explaining that these other members of the Black Cats that I recruited into my organisation, explained to me how dangerous some of the people within the Black Cats were.  Therefore they indicated to me what training Bongani had undergone at Mkuzi.  He is stubborn and they indicated how dangerous he can be to the community.   I think I did explain that, not knowing whether you still remember it or not.

MR HATTINGH: No, I agree with you, you did explain that.  But still you never mentioned that Bongani at any stage attacked you or your house.

CHAIRPERSON: As a reason why he assassinated him?

MR HATTINGH: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he assassinate him because he was personally attacked?

MR HATTINGH: Sorry Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Did he do so because he was attacked or what?

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, at this stage I would like to find out what his reasons were because the reasons that he ...

CHAIRPERSON: But you have asked him what his reasons were and he gave you the reasons, whether we believe it or not, that is another matter.  But you put to him that he didn't mention the fact that he was attacked of a number of occasions by a group which included the deceased, as a reason why he eventually assassinated him.
	I don't know if that is quite correct.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I would then just put to this witness and ask him to explain why on page 147 in his application form, he wrote whatever he wrote there, or was noted there on his behalf.
	If you turn to page 147, paragraph (b) in this application form you were asked for your justification regarding the acts that you committed.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you describe how on a few occasions you were attacked by members of the IFP which included the deceased Malinga, and you go and you describe how you were stabbed in four places on your body and in your hand and in your lip.  On the fourth occasion when he and his group attacked you, you shot him.

PELELE L SHONGWE: That is one of the things that I said, but I think there might be something that my Attorney also added, but what I remember is that I was not under attack on the day that I shot Bongani.

MR HATTINGH: And on page 148, middle of the page, paragraph 11(a) you said I acted to protect myself.  It would appear that that is also not correct because you did not act to protect yourself, you in fact attacked Bongani?

PELELE L SHONGWE: If you look carefully here, there is an instance where I did indicate that I was protecting and defending myself as well as the ANC structures.

MR HATTINGH: Show that to us then.

MR PATEL: If Mr Hattingh would just read paragraph 11(a) in its entirety, he will see it.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I do not quite understand the reason for Mr Patel answering the question.  The applicant answered and I asked him to show me where.  I do not find that strange for me to ask him to show me where and what he would like to point out to me.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you point it out?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, there is an instance here where I have indicated that I was protecting myself.  I would like to clarify something here before this Commission, I am not well conversant in English.
	I think I have said everything that I wanted to say at the time when this form was being filled.  Maybe my lawyer may have added something up so that this could be better understood.  I also indicated how I killed Bongani.
	He didn't attack me.  I am the one who went charging on him.  I don't know why Mr Hattingh should concentrate on this.

CHAIRPERSON: It is according to your application, one of the possibilities exist that you killed him because he attacked you and when he was attacking you for the fourth time.  Now that is not what you have told us in your evidence, that you left your home, you ran after him and you shot him 11 times.  Do you understand the problem?

PELELE L SHONGWE: I do understand.

CHAIRPERSON: That is what Mr Hattingh is dealing with.

PELELE L SHONGWE: I think there is some area here where I indicated that I was still going to explain.  Some of the people who were attacking me, are still alive.
	If I was paying a revenge, really I would have done so to all these other people who were attacking me.  These other people who are still alive today, were communicable  and I could talk to them.  Not Bongani, he was dangerous to the community, that is why I decided to kill him.
	I didn't attack him because he was always among the people who were attacking me, no.

MR HATTINGH: Is it possible for you to point out which parts or which sentences in your application form is incorrect and which was added by your Attorney without your knowledge?

CHAIRPERSON: That will involve the assistance of an Interpreter.  If you assist, then we have to adjourn and let him do that.

MR HATTINGH: Mr Chairman, I have no intention of delaying proceedings, but really I think it is important that we need to know what his application consists of.
	I think, it is already half past four and we are going to finish with him within minutes tomorrow morning, just to clarify this last issue.

CHAIRPERSON: No, we will finish with him tonight.

MR HATTINGH: Okay, I appreciate that.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shongwe, you are going to have to ask an Interpreter to assist you in answering that question.
	I am going to adjourn for ten minutes and hopefully by then you would be able to give the answer.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
PELELE L. SHONGWE: (still under oath)

MR HATTINGH: (continued)   ... tell us what part of the contents of this application is not correct and which was added by your Attorney without your knowledge?

PELELE L SHONGWE: That is where reference is made to an 3.8 mm Plattes and the area where I was attacked on the day when I shot Bongani.  I do not concur with this.

MR HATTINGH: Sorry, if we can start with page 144, just 144 - the first page of your application, is there anything that was not correct on that page?

PELELE L SHONGWE: Everything is correct on this page.

MR HATTINGH: If you turn to page 145, would you please indicate what part of that page is perhaps not correct?

PELELE L SHONGWE: That is where reference is made to the 3.8 mm as well as the name Plattes.

MR HATTINGH: Sorry, if you could just indicate what paragraph is that, I can't find it.

PELELE L SHONGWE: That is at the bottom of page 145, (iv).

MR HATTINGH: So it is only reference to the 3.8 that was incorrect?

CHAIRPERSON: (Microphone not on)

PELELE L SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct.