Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-17

MR LOWIES: According to Mr Nosenga the people who he saw who were White had their faces painted.  Now these people that you saw and that were White on your version, did they have painted faces?  I'm not talking about the attacker now, I'm talking about the other two chaps.

MIRIAM MOLETE: Their faces were not painted.

MR LOWIES: Can you describe the caps that they wore?

MIRIAM MOLETE: They were camouflage type caps and the clothing went along with the caps, looked much the same as the caps.

MR LOWIES: And you say what they were wearing was overalls, not a shirt and a pair of trousers?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Their clothing looked like overalls, these that you would have a belt around your waist and they had caps.

MR LOWIES: Now were these peak caps, in other words, that come out to the front or was it more like a beret such as you are wearing?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Those were caps not berets, they never look anything like berets.

MR LOWIES: Your attacker, the one that stabbed you, what was the colour of his Balaclava?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I did say that I do not know the colour to the Balaclava.

MR LOWIES: Yet you could see that his eyes were blue?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I did see the eyes because the Apollo light was cursed into the house and the moonlight and this light next to the table.

MR LOWIES: ...(inaudible) light next to the table?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Paraffin light.

MR LOWIES: If the paraffin light was not on, would you still have been able to see his eyes, the colour of his eyes?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No.

MR LOWIES: Now when did you observe him for the first time.  Let me explain what I mean.  According to you the person stabbed you in the eye with a sharp object.  At that stage were you already aware of the fact that he was a White person, as you say?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I was aware that he was a White person before he stabbed me with a sharpened instrument.

MR LOWIES: What weapons did this person carry?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I saw the person who attacked me, a panga he was carrying and a sharpened instrument, so called Umjamenjo.

MR STRYDOM: In both hands?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: What is the length of the sharpened object, could you just indicate to us?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I cannot estimate the length and I won't be correct because I saw a person stabbing me.  If I did not stab backwards he would have poked out my eye.

MR LOWIES: No but can't you indicate to us the length with your hands?

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the length of the?

MR LOWIES: The sharpened object.

CHAIRPERSON: Umjamenjo.  Yes.

MR LOWIES: Thank you Chair.

MIRIAM MOLETE: No Sir, I would not know how other Umjamenjo's lengths are.

MR LAX: Sorry, Mrs Molete, you're being asked to - not about other Umjamenjos, you're being asked about this particular one that stabbed you.  If you can't remember that's fine but you're not been asked about other ones, you're being asked about this one.

MIRIAM MOLETE: I cannot estimate it's length, Sir.

MR LOWIES: Is there a specific reason why you can't?  Didn't you see properly or what is the reason?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I could see but I tried to protect myself with my hand.

CHAIRPERSON: Is the position that because you were trying to protect yourself from this onslaught, you didn't pay much attention to this Umjamenjo so as to be able to give us the size of the blade or the Umjamenjo itself?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct and I thank you for the question you've raised.

MR STRYDOM: When you saw the person entering the premises or your shack with these weapons, were you afraid?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I was not that afraid.

MR STRYDOM: Now obviously when you saw him you had to make sure whether he was in possession of a weapon, not so?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Please repeat the question?

MR LOWIES: When you saw the person obviously you had to make sure whether he had weapons, not so, whether he was carrying weapons with him?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

MR LOWIES: And even at that stage you were not able to discern what the length of this weapon was, the sharpened object?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I have already stated my answer.

MR LOWIES: And I take it you did not have much time to look at this person and the weapons he was carrying, not so?

MIRIAM MOLETE: You are correct.

MR LOWIES: All in all, how long would you say were you in the presence of this person?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It was a few seconds or minutes.

MR LOWIES: Now wasn't there a situation where somebody else tried to grab the child from you and I'm referring to Mita?

MIRIAM MOLETE: There was nobody else, it was myself and the attacker alone.  The rest I did not see.  Her father was already taken out, they had taken him out.

MR LOWIES: And Florence, at that stage?

MIRIAM MOLETE: She was busy with her attackers also.

MR LOWIES: Because Florence says in her statement, it's the eleventh page, Mr Chairman, paragraph 4, approximately in the middle thereof
"I managed to reach Miriam who was having Mita in her arms.  At the time when I was to take Mita, one of the attackers chopped me on the head with a panga."
Did this not happen?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That never happened to me, I am not aware of the facts contained in Florence's statement.

MR LOWIES: And then she goes on to state
"Miriam cried that her child Mita was killed."
Is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is not correct.

MR LOWIES: Did you not cry when your child was hacked by this person?

MIRIAM MOLETE: At the time he stabbed me I did not cry, I cried afterwards as we went to the dumping place and after the child had fainted.

MR LOWIES: Did you not shout at all at that stage when the child was injured?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I did not shout, I was trying to save her life.

MR LOWIES: And at that stage when the child was hacked and when you got injured on your thumb as you described, Florence was not in your immediate vicinity, on your version?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Sir, I could not see her, I was trying to help my daughter and myself also.

CHAIRPERSON: But you don't know exactly where she was at the time?

MIRIAM MOLETE: She was busy with her attackers.  I was right at the door, that is where my fight ended, at the door.

CHAIRPERSON: And where was Florence with her attackers?

MIRIAM MOLETE: She was right there in the kitchen, to watch the door as you move out of the house, she was not next to me.

MR LOWIES: But there was never a situation whereby she attempted to grab the child or take the child from you and then you were hacked or the child was hacked by this person?

MIRIAM MOLETE: The child was hacked in my hands not in Florence's arms.

MR LOWIES: No, that's not the question, she didn't even try to take the child from you, that's what I'm asking?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No.

MR LOWIES: Did you at any stage become hysterical?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Since the 17th I've been like that, the very day or night of the attack.

MR LOWIES: I don't follow, if could just explain?  Do you know what hysterical means?  Crying, sobbing, uncontrollably.

MIRIAM MOLETE: That was the situation when I came from hospital.

MR LOWIES: Not on the night of the attack?

MIRIAM MOLETE: The day of the attack I went to the hospital after we were attacked.  I was there until I was discharged, that is when now my problems began and then I was disturbed.

MR LOWIES: What do you mean disturbed?

CHAIRPERSON: I am told that what was conveyed to her by way of interpretation is that she was deeply disturbed or something to that effect.

INTERPRETER: Chairperson, Mr Lowies stated that was she not hysterical, I therefore interpreted that to mean she was deeply disturbed as you say seSotho, I said ...(indistinct).

CHAIRPERSON: I think Mr Lowies has just indicated what he means by hysterical, that is crying uncontrollably, do you understand that Mr Interpreter, as opposed to being deeply disturbed?

INTERPRETER: Yes I did get that and I corrected that version of the question.

MIRIAM MOLETE: I do not understand whether he means on that day or thereafter?