Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR BERGER: No, no, it wasn't a video Chairperson, it was the - it were those photographs that were shown to a witness.  In fact I handed my file up to Justice Ngcobo during that examination.  Now that is Exhibit "Y2".  It's also referred to in some detail in the joint ballistic report which I will come to in a moment.  That joint ballistic report was commissioned by the ANC, the IFP, the families of the deceased and the injured, as well as the SAP.  It was a joint report, and that report appears in bundle "B" at pages 159 - 188.  What has been left out of that - of the bundle are the photographs which are attached to that report.  They're available if any member of the Committee wants to see those photographs.
	We say that the gist of the joint report is summarised in the seven sketch plans which are annexed to the report.  The seven sketch plans that I'm referring to appear at pages 182 - 188 of bundle "B", and what we say, Chairperson, is that these sketch plans together with the report indicate certain basic propositions.  The first proposition is set out in paragraph 4.1 of the memorandum, that is that shots were fired both in the direction of Shell House and in the direction of the marchers.  Now one can see that from the various sketch plans, if I could just take the Committee to the sketch plans.  I'm starting at page 182 of bundle "B".  What sketch plan no 1 shows, it's a reconstruction of the investigation by Superintendent Du Plessis on the day after the incident, the 29th of March 1994.  The shots into Jabu's Bakery are reflected - the ten shots are reflected there, the shots into Shell House are shown as SW6, SW4, SW3.   The shots under the parapet of Shell House, SW1, SW2 is the ricochet, which he didn't know about at the time, but which subsequently became apparent after the joint investigation, and the boxes a, b, c and d represent the following, a represents a car which was parked in King George Street on the day of the shooting and into which shots were fired;  b is another vehicle which was there on the day of the shooting and into which shots were fired;  c is a concrete block which was positioned in King George Street;  and d is were the Woburn Pharmacy used to be, you will recall, Chairperson, that the Woburn Pharmacy at the time of the shooting was at the corner and has subsequently moved to being the third shop in King George Street.  The reason that these four areas are shaded in is to show that they couldn't be confirmed by the other experts, because they no longer existed at the time of the joint investigation, but they are not disputed by anybody.  
	Sketch plan no 2 over the page at 183 indicates shots that were fired from Shell House towards Jabu's Bakery from De Villiers Street, you will see there are two shots fired towards Jabu's Bakery, in particular I'm referring to shot marked no 4 and the shot marked no 5, you will see they come from that blue area, and that blue area in the key is described as the area from where there was firing, "area van waar gevuur is".  It also indicates shots being fired from that area into the north-western corner of Shell House.  Other shots are also indicated there, and the difference between the blue lines and the red lines, is the blue lines represent handguns and the red lines represent high calibre rifles such as an AK47.
	Sketch plan 3 at page 184 ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Before you move on, Mr Berger, there's M1 and M2 on that diagram, just tell us about that.

MR BERGER: M1 and M2 are shots fired into Nandos and Whisky Music, but the direction of the shots were coming from - along Plein Street from a - east to west, so those shots are not part of - whenever those shots were, they definitely did not take place at the time of the main incident.

MR LAX: Just the other one is SS3412.

MR BERGER: Similarly, they're not relevant to the main incident.

MR DORFLING: Mr Chair, with the greatest respect, I would like my learned friend to just explain why he excludes these shots as having been fired on the day of the incident.

MR BERGER: We don't exclude them as having been fired on the day of the shootings, there's no basis for excluding them, but Mr Dorfling can make what he wants of those particular shots, there's no evidence that we're aware of.

MR DORFLING: It would simply be an incorrect statement to say they're not relevant to what happened on that day, we don't know.  I think it's no more than neutral, we don't know whether they have significance or whether they pertain to the events on that day or not.

MR BERGER: Yes, we're happy with that, we have no problem.  	If I can then move to sketch plan no 3 on page 184, now, this sketch plan indicates shots fired at with a high calibre rifle, probably an AK47, from Shell House, P1 - P9 in the direction of the upper floors of Jabu's Bakery, so that's in a north-westerly direction, and B1 - B6 in the direction of the upper floors of the flats over the road from Shell House between - in King George Street between De Villiers Street and Plein Street.  They're all high calibre shots, except for B3, you will see there's some doubt in the minds of the experts as to whether B3 was a handgun or a high calibre shot, and that's why it's shaded in both red and blue.  You'll see in the key that dotted red and blue line is "a geweer/handwapen", either.  Now, what's also interesting from sketch plan 3 is that there are two areas blocked off, the one is blocked off in a dark dotted line, a longer dotted line, and that is P1 - P9 in the key, it's the "vuurarea balkon", the firing area from the balcony, and the dotted lines at the bottom, the - from P1 - P9, no, it's also to P9, but smaller dots if I can put it that way, also black dots is the "vuurarea straatvlak", the firing area from the street.  And you will also see that the red lines which go into the parapet become dotted at the bottom and continue towards the street, and that is because the experts were not able to state categorically that those shots were fired from the balcony or fired from street level, what they did was, they worked out the approximate trajectory of the shot wherever they found it on the building, tracked it back, but they couldn't state categorically whether it came from the parapet or whether it came from street level.  And that's why you will see the dotted lines.
	If I could then move to sketch plan no 4 at page 185.  This brings me back to paragraph 4.2 of the memorandum, where we say that the shots which were fired in the direction of Shell House included shots fired from AK47s, handguns and at least one shotgun.  Again I assume Mr Dorfling will be in agreement with me, if I can leave out SO3, SO2, SO1, SN1 and SN2 for the purposes of the present discussion.  Well, perhaps SN1 and SN2 might not be left out, they might have some relevance because we know that the crowd was in that vicinity.  And then there was also evidence from an SA at the time, and SADF soldier who fired a shot with a R5 rifle at the marchers, and his testimony was that he fired a shot because he was shot at, and he fired the shot in vicinity - he was in De Villiers Street, he was shot as in De Villiers Street, and it's possible that those shots might link up, except he said that he was shot at with an AK47, and these shots are shots are depicted as being from a handgun.