Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pretoria — 1996-08-12

THOMAS MANTHATA: The way I understand you I think you mean when your child was still at school, were you still able to know whether he was taking part in political matters or not?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: No, I did not know, but when the strike started at their school we were about to bury my mum and my child was present at that time.  When people started shooting around, if someone had interest in something you could see.  He never took part in any political activities.  He was only standing on the side looking for these people who were running around.  Really, I am not talking on his behalf, but I do not know anything about his political involvement.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Whilst receiving letters from the police what do you understand from these letters?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: The letters were not from the police they were from my son.  The letters were already opened when they got to me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Were the letters brought to you by the police?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Many of them were brought by the police.  Some of them we got them in the postbox, but they were all opened.  I had the impression that we had problems with the child because he was still in school by then because he use to phone me from school and I thought he was worried about his child because he was still in school.  What he did was not to go to school to take care of the child because the mum was working and the child was in the creche there in Zambia in Lusaka.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did not the police who brought letters to you give you any names?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: No, they use to give me names.  I am a bit
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stupid, maybe, or I am slow learner.  You know if someone does not anything about politics, even if I, you give me an address of a political house I would tear it away because I did not want to associate myself with any politics.  I was afraid by then.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you heard that your son has disappeared and Mapula was not able or was not prepared to help you find out about his whereabouts, what did you perceive Mapula as?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: I thought Mapula sold my son out because she came around to take the child because she phoned me before whilst my son was sleeping and she came to fetch, to tell me that my son is moving around is prostitutes.  When I heard that my son was dead whilst this lady was still visiting, that is Mapula, I was very hurt and I told those people why do you not ask Mapula why she did not tell me that my child was dead and she told me that those were family affairs.  That is what she said while we were in Shell House.  What could I do about that?  I do not know where my child is now because of Mapula.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What would you request from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission regarding the disappearance of your son?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: I would like to go and fetch the remains of my son and bring them to South Africa where I can bury him, because presently I do not know whether he has buried in Angola or in Quatro Camp or in Zambia.  I am not sure.  I do not know, in fact, or whether he was thrown into a hole with many other people who died or not.  I do not know about that.  How are we going to know or when are we going to know about how people were treated in the Quatro Camp because we see about many things on TV.  When are we going to see those PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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happenings of Quatro Camp on TV because we have seen about the other ANC camps on TV.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Who will help you to get to Quatro Camp if you want to go there so that you can be able to see where your child was buried?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: That is what I am asking from the Truth Commission.  I want the Truth Commission to find out who killed my son and I think the person who killed him must know where he buried him or where he threw him.  I do not want anybody to be apprehended because if such people are being arrested they are still going to use tax payer's money.  I want them to bring my son's remains from Zambia or Quatro to South Africa.  They must use that money or the tax payer's money to fetch those bones or the remains of my son or to help me go over to see where my son has been buried.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Sooka.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mama, can you tell me, you say that the police constantly visited you after Mooketsi left.  Did they, when they visited you, did they ask you questions about whether he was involved in politics.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes, they were asking me questions.  Where is Mooketsi?  Is Mooketsi in what Commission, what, what, I do not know.  I told them I do not know anything about it.

YASMINE SOOKA: When Mooketsi told you that he was in trouble when he wrote to you, what kind of trouble was that?  Was it to do with money?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: No, it is with the child.  He did not like the way the children were kept at the creche where they left the child.

YASMINE SOOKA: Mapula, was she a South African girl or was she
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from Zambia?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Mapula is a girl from Soweto.

YASMINE SOOKA: You mention in your statement that she came back in 1993 and she told you that he had married someone else, but that when you went to the ANC offices they told you that your son had been shot in 1983.  Did you ever go back to Mapula and ask her how come she had given you a different story?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: I do not want to go to Mapula because being angry as a mother, I thought that the office can take Mapula and me, meet together and talk because I did not want to fight.  I was asking the Shell House to call Mapula and call me and talk about these things, but they did not want to do that.  Even now I do not want to talk to Mapula.

YASMINE SOOKA: When you went to the ANC Welfare offices was your son's rank in the ANC listed in those documents?  Did they tell you whether he was a member of MK, whether he was a Commander or whether he was an ordinary soldier?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: I did not ask anything about to be a Commander or what because I went there in 1980 I found my child attending school.

YASMINE SOOKA: No, I ...

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: I did not ask them what kind of, whether he is a MK or what.  I did not ask them that questions.

YASMINE SOOKA: However, when you went to the ANC Welfare office.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes, I went there in Shell House.

YASMINE SOOKA: In their records were you able to read anything about whether he was a member of MK?

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: They did not write, the paper was written Mooketsi Joseph, Balile, the name they called them that
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side, died accidentally and when I asked them why you did not tell me earlier they said there was no address.  I said to them you cannot tell me that there was no address and yet you have got Mapula in the company.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mokoena, if I can just get the order of events here clear for myself.  You went to Zambia in 1980.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And you met with ...

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ... Mooketsi there.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Then in 1986, 1987 you received a phone call from Attorney Seriti.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: When Mapula asked for Pontso to be sent to her.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Then in 1990 you enquired with all the exiles or refugees from ...

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ... Mamelodi.  They had no knowledge of your son.

CAROLINA SINKEPENG MOKOENA: Yes.  I was even having a photo.  Showing them the photo that you do know this person, do you know this person?  Everybody was denying they do not know him.