Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-25

THOMAS MANTHATA: I understand you to say you are frustrated by the fact that you have not had any kind of hearing and/or any support from some important structures of this country.

MR SONO: That is true, because the other people that came to my place, it is the welfare people, two gentlemen came. I can only remember one, Morowe, they told me they were from Lusaka. They had a book and they were visiting most families that have lost their children in the struggle or in exile.  So they told me, they showed me the book.  My son's name was SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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not there. They came to me in the evening.  We had tea with them. They even invited me at Plein Street, where I went and they spoke to me. They said my case is a different one, because they don't have my son's name in the books.  They went all over the places. They even are going to people that did not know that their sons are late, people who died in exile. They were busy visiting them, because they are back in the country, just to let the people know that your son has been killed or he died in the struggle.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Thank you, Mr Sono, no further questions.

MR SONO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Glenda Wildschut?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: No thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka?

YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Sono, you said that you met with the Commissioner of Police. Could you tell me what the Commissioner said to you, apart from the letter that Mr Leon got later on?

MR SONO: Yes.  The Commissioner of Police was very sympathetic, because he really listened to me, that's one thing that I have noticed, he did listen to what I was saying to him. And unfortunately as he told me that he has just taken up as Commissioner of Police, he will do everything in his powers to keep this case open and to let the police work and he will report back to me.  He is not going to rest, he is going to go through all channels and try and help me as much as he can.  That's what he told me.

YASMINE SOOKA: When you received no joy from pleading with Mrs Mandela, did you go to any other community leaders to ask them to intervene and to try and find out what had actually happened to your son?
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MR SONO: There was nowhere where I can go.  There was nowhere where I can go, because there was nowhere where I can go, because after that incident I was deserted, nobody came to me, even those contacts that I had, they no more came to me.    Everybody disappeared.

YASMINE SOOKA: From the letter that Mr Leon got, there seems to be some kind of assumption that Mr Sebokulo had actually said something about your son. Has this letter ever been followed up? I know that the inference here is that Mr Sebokulo cannot be trusted, but were there ever, did they ever inform you about whether Mr Sebokulu had actually said anything in regard to your son being missing?

MR SONO: No, they did not inform me, except a few people who are friends and journalists overseas, that has got part of his story, which they did not want to release to me, as they were in South Africa.  They said they will write to me and tell me at a later stage. They were also afraid of being harassed if they could tell me anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also mentioned that you were referred to a lawyer. Could you tell us the name of that particular lawyer?

MR SONO: Yes, after the police has asked me to come to Protea, I went to Winnie and told her that the police will need, they will need me to come to the police and maybe question me concerning the people, the person that they have arrested.  She referred me to the lawyers, it is Ayop & Sons, I think, in Grey Street, somewhere along Main Street, somewhere there.

YASMINE SOOKA: The one thing that confuses me, is that you say that Capt Dempsey never came back to you, except to ask you to go to court, when Winnie was being charged with Stompie's SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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death.  You are the only one who then testified.

MR SONO: I am the only one that said something to those advocates in the Supreme Court.  The other people refused to talk to the advocates.

CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, Sir, excuse me, that is not acceptable.  Can you please ... Sorry, Mr Sono.

MR SONO: Thank you.  Answering your question there is that that Capt Dempsey I only saw him in court for the first time, in the Supreme Court.  Because when the case was reported, there was no follow-up, like you know you have reported a case to the police, they will come to you. They will come to you, take further statements, take you around or ask you some questions.  He never came, except the day that he was coming to tell me that I must meet him in court.  That's all.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also mention that you discussed the matter with Matthews Phosa.  What did Matthews say or advise you then?

MR SONO: Matthews Phosa said to me, as I have already given the statement to the welfare organisation of the ANC, there is nothing that he can do, but I must just go to the police and answer all questions that they ask me. If it is getting tough for me then I can come back to them.

YASMINE SOOKA: If I am right, it is almost nine years now?

MR SONO: That is correct.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

MR SONO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke?

MS SEROKE: Mr Sono, you repeatedly mention your cousin who was a contact with MKs or whatever.  Would you care to say who he is?
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MR SONO: His name is Frans Maloleki, but he was using a nickname when he was in exile, he was known as Peter.

MS SEROKE: Where is he now?

MR SONO: He died on the 9th of November at Richardsons' house, he was killed by police.  He was buried at his folks' place outside Pretoria, called Ramogop.

CHAIRPERSON: Hugh?

MR LEWIN: Mr Sono, could I ask just two questions.  You have mentioned Lolo and you have mentioned Sibonisa. Do you know of other young men in the same position, who have also disappeared?

MR SONO: I only know two.  As I have mentioned earlier on, that the disappearance of Lolo and Sionisa, my neighbour's child, has saved quite a lot of them in our street, because Ndijo and others, Jabu and things, they all got safe because I protected them. I refused them to follow, to follow on to that football club. I spoke to them not to associate themselves with that any more because of what happened to Lolo.

MR LEWIN: And the football club, can you tell us, does it still exist, is it in existence

MR SONO: No, I don't know if it exists, but I only heard by rumours that it has splitted.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

MR SONO: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr and Mrs Sono, we thank you for very much for approaching the Commission.  We understand your agony, the mental pain and anguish that you are suffering from. Partly the difficulty is that if pain is man-made, it is often difficult to accept.  People who suffer through a natural cause often heal with time, but in your case we can
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understand your pain.  You have referred to quite a number of sources and names which we didn't have in our statement.  This is going to be further assistance to our investigating unit, but for now you have made a plea, which has been our plea since we started as a Commission, that anyone who has violated people's rights, can they please come forward, because that seems to be a measure of settlement to people's healing.  So we will still continue that plea to the public out there and we will be in touch with you.  Yasmin Sooka would like to ask one more question.