Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-23

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No I was no longer a police at the time.

MR NGUBANE: When did you cease to be a KwaZulu police?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I ceased to be a police when I was still based at Hammersdale in Mpumalanga. That is where I fled.

MR NGUBANE: (...indistinct) you were no longer a KwaZulu police officer?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No I concluded myself because I was no longer getting any salary. There was not a letter that I received to that effect and nobody informed me about it.

MR NGUBANE: Did you ask M Z Khumalo about your status after you had left Hammersdale?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I did not bother.

MR NGUBANE: Did you wonder, you know for how long did you wonder about regarding yourself as a non-KwaZulu policeman before you could be admitted to the witness protection scheme? Approximately?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: When I left Hammersdale I was no longer a police. Because when I arrived at Empangeni I was already not a police any more. I just stayed until a office was opened up. And that is an office that I worked at so that I could get a salary.

MR NGUBANE: (...indistinct) how much did you receive at the Inkatha office per month?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I used to receive about R1200 per month.

MR NGUBANE: Was that amount equal to the amount that you have been receiving as a police officer?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No.

MR NGUBANE: How much did you receive as a police officer?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I used to get quite little. I used to earn about 6, seven hundred rands . That was not enough.

MR NGUBANE: Did you leave the KwaZulu police at Hammersdale because of violence or you left it because you were wanted for any criminal activity?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I left the police because there was certain crimina activities that I had conducted in the place. That is why I disappeared.

MR NGUBANE: And was M Z Khumalo aware of your desertion of the KwaZulu police from Hammersdale?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: One person that I was always in touch with at the time was Dtholo Luthuli, that is Mthala induna, M Z knows about this as well.

MR NGUBANE: So when you joined the Inkatha, well when you moved to the Inkatha office in Mpangeni you were not given any back pay for the months that you were not paid for when you left Hammersdale is it correct?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you Mr Chairman, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane. Mr Hewit do you have any questions?

MR HEWIT: Yes I do Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Proceed.

MR HEWIT: Mr Dlamini I just want to place certain matters on record as far as your testimony is concerned. Firstly is it not correct that before you gave evidence at this hearing you have been present throughout the evidence of the applicant Brian Mkhize?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I was present.

MR HEWIT: You were also present throughout the evidence of the applicant Romeo Mbambo?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: And you were also present throughout the evidence of the last applicant Hlongwane?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: And also Mr Luthuli?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Right I want to refer you to incident 2 that you testified to today. And in particular to the affidavit which you made in support of your amnesty application and in particular at page 393. Is it correct that before you gave evidence today you swore a lengthy affidavit regarding various incidents?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Do you gave that affidavit before you?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I have it in front of me.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) open at page 393?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct)  want to read to you what you said regarding incident number 2. You state there: "An instruction was received from Mrs Mbuyazi that we were to go to the ANC dominated area of J1 section." Do you confirm that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: You then say: "Our instruction was to shoot at random at anybody within that area as they would all be ANC." Do you confirm that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: You then say: "This instruction did not include children." Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: You then say: "We decided to proceed in a grey Toyota belonging to Mrs Mbuyazi." Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I explained earlier on that.

MR HEWIT: I am asking you whether you confirm it in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would like to explain.

CHAIRPERSON: Please I think Mr Dlamini if you could just answer the question it will make things go a lot quicker?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: What is it that you would like me to confirm?

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) to confirm that in your affidavit which you deposed to on oath you stated: "We decided to proceed in the grey Toyota belonging to Mrs Mbuyazi." That is all I am asking you. Is that in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: So in your affidavit you then say: "We did not change the number plates." Do you confirm that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Then you mention various people that were with you. Okay do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Then in the next paragraph you deal with what weapons the various people with you and yourself had. You deal with the question of weapons, correct?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I did not get the question.

CHAIRPERSON: He said he did not hear the question.

MR HEWIT: Let me read that paragraph to you then. The next paragraph you say: "Nthena, Romeo and Mtetwe had signed for G3 rifles from the police station." Do you confirm that is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes it is here in my affidavit.

MR HEWIT: And in addition in possession of their service pistols. Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: You then say: "I cannot recall what I used for this incident as it may have been a pistol or a G3." Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Then you say: "I was not issued with an arm directly but I would have used whatever weapon was available. This incident would have started about one week after the first incident." Do you confirm all that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: That is correct.

MR HEWIT: Right now I want you also to confirm the next paragraph which reads as follows: "We all proceeded in one vehicle and left at about 21H00." Do you confirm that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would like to explain this. And I would like to explain about the car situation.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) you to confirm because I want this specifically on the record of your evidence. I just want you to confirm what is in your affidavit. That is all. You can then explain after that. Do you agree that you say: "We all proceeded in one vehicle and left at about 21H00"?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes.

MR HEWIT: Do you confirm that you then say
"We would drive randomly around the ANC dominated areas of J1, H2 and parts of J2 sections which were divided between the ANC and the IFP."
Do you confirm that is what is in your affidavit?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: (...indistinct) seen either walking in the road, standing in their property or standing in their doorways were shot on site."

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR HEWIT: Right now at this hearing today and in answer to the questions put to you by my learned friend, Mr Wills are you now saying that all that evidence that I have just put to you which is in your affidavit about it being Mrs Mbuyazi's vehicle which was used are you saying that, that was not true at the time? It is now false or mistaken, which one do you say it is?