Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-09-04

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) statements taken before us, those are for the matter we're hearing tomorrow or the next day, are they?

MR MAPOMA: Yes Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: And what are we starting with now?

MR MAPOMA: We're starting with the applications which relate to the case of State vs Buthelezi.  The applicants are applying for amnesty for acts relating to that which was dealt with in that case.  There are a number of applicants, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Now the matter is set down as number one?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I now interrupt?  I'm afraid I had forgotten the procedure that we have been asked to indulge in.  The Committee consists of myself, Andrew Wilson.

MR LAX: I'm Ilan Lax from Pietermartizburg.

MR SIBANYONI: I'm J B Sibanyoni from Pretoria.

CHAIRPERSON: And would you please announce yourself, Leader of Evidence?

MR MAPOMA: I'm Zuko Mapoma, Leader of Evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: And who is appearing for the applicants?

MR MOERANE: Chairperson, the name is M T K Moerane S.C., appearing for all the applicants.

MS CAMBANIS: Thank you Chairperson.  I'm Crystal Cambanis appearing for Raymond Lalla in the matter.

MS MOHAMED: Thank you Chairperson, I'm Ms Mohamed from ...(indistinct) Incorporated on record representing Mr Tshika and Mr Msibi.  Thank you.

MR MTHIYANE: Mr Chairperson, I appear for Mr Ngema, my name is Mthiyane, I'm B S Mthiyane.

CHAIRPERSON: That's not a matter set down for hearing today?

MR MTHIYANE: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR MOERANE: Chairperson, before we commence proceedings, I wish on behalf of the applicant Ms D Buthelezi Mbongwa to withdraw her application.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, we agree to the application being withdrawn.

MR MOERANE: Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, I also wish to place on record the specific acts in respect of which each of the applicants seeks amnesty.
	I'll start with applicant Vejanand Ramlakan.  This applicant applies for amnesty in respect of certain acts which appear in bundle 1 at pages 7, 8 and 9.  Those are incident 17, Chatsworth Magistrate's Court, explosive device detonated on the 13th December 1985.  At the foot of page 7 of bundle 1, Chairperson.

MR LAX: Just to clarify for record purposes, there is a summary which forms the beginning of that bundle but which isn't part of the paginated papers and it's page - on our copy which may be different to yours because of the way it may have been printed out.  It's the bottom of page 8 of our summary of the incidents.  But the numbering of incidents is the same so let's just call it incident 17.

MR MOERANE: Incident 17.  Thank you Mr Lax.
	And incident 18.  The damage to Minister Rajbansi's house with a limpet mine on the 4th August 1985.  With regard to incidents number 13, Mr Ramlakan has been informed that he is implicated in that incident.  He will give an explanation but will deny involvement in the incident.
	The next applicant I propose dealing with is Mr Derek Naidoo.  His application is AM4017/96.  He will apply for amnesty in respect of the same two incidents, incident 17 and 18.  
	Next applicant is Mr Dhanpal Naidoo, AM4007/96.  He also will apply for amnesty in respect of the same two incidents, 17 and 18.
	So will applicant Mr Jude Francis, AM4011/96.  Same two incidents.
	And the same will apply to applicant David Madurai, applicant AM4013/96.
	The applicant Richard Vallihu, applicant AM4010/96 will apply for amnesty in respect of one incident, that is incident 18, the incident relating to Mr Rajbansi's house.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, who is this?

MR MOERANE: Richard Vallihu.

CHAIRPERSON: You say he is asking for one only?  Richard Vallihu, you say he's asking for one only?

MR MOERANE: Yes, I know that in his application he applied for both but he will only be applying for the one.  He was actually not involved in the second one.

CHAIRPERSON: That's the Chatsworth Court one?

MR MOERANE: That is so, Chairperson.  The next applicant is Mr Sibongiseni Dlomo.  Applicant 6389/97.  Chairperson, I'll be referring the Committee to bundle 2.  Now this particular applicant was accused number 2 in the filed State vs Buthelezi and he will be applying for amnesty in respect of the matters referred to in the annexure to the charge sheet on page 35, pages 35 up to 37.  Page 35 of bundle 2, paragraph 1 and paragraph 13 on page 37 and that in about August 1985 he trained accused number 12 in the case and one Frank Malungu at Alan Taylor residence in the use of limpet mines, explosives and handgrenades and paragraph 14 on the same page that in about September 1985 he went to Ngwavuma where he fetched three trained members of the ANC including accused number 4 and brought them to the Durban area.
	I also refer the learned Committee to page 241 of the same bundle.  From the second paragraph which reads as follows, paragraph 23 of annexure B alleges that accused number 2 established or assisted in establishing a dead letter box near Umhlazi.  The evidence in support of this allegation proves that accused number 2 pointed out an area before the Executive Hotel in Umhlazi on the 2nd January 1986 and that as a result of the pointing out, a bag containing explosives and explosive devices was discovered in the area and what follows on that right up to page 242 which amounted to a conviction in respect of possession of those explosives and explosive devices with the intent to commit acts or violence in furtherance of the aims of the ANC and to overthrow the State authority in the Republic by means of violence.  He will be applying for amnesty in respect of that conviction.
	And may I with respect refer the learned Committee to bundle 1, various incidents in that bundle.  I'll refer to incidents 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13.
	Incident 8 being the explosion at Durban OK Bazaars, West Street, on the 27th September 1985. 
	In the incident number 9 being the limpet mine explosion at Game Discount World between West and Pine Street on the same day.
	Incident number 10, being an explosion at Spar Foodliner, West Street, Durban, on the same day, 27th September 1985.
	Incident 11, being an explosion at Checkers, Smith Street, Durban, on the same day.
	Incident 12, being an explosion at the Executive Hotel, Umhlazi, on the following day 28th September 1985.
	And Incident 13, being an incident wherein two persons who had in their possession a limpet mine were killed in the blast that occurred then at the Grosvener Girls School on the Bluff on 24th October 1985.
	The applicant is applying for amnesty in respect of these incidents.  His attitude though being that he is not certain whether or not the explosive devices which he supplied to various persons were actually used on the occasions specified but because there is a possibility that besides explosive devices were or might have been used ex abundante cautela he is applying for amnesty in respect of those incidents.

CHAIRPERSON: This is Dlomo still?

MR MOERANE: Dlomo, yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Do I understand you correctly that what he is saying is he admits having supplied explosive devices to these people at these times but he is not certain if they in fact used the device supplied by him to cause the explosion?