Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-06

MR STRYDOM: If you come from kwaMadala hostel, will you first get the township, that is now Boipatong, and then Slovo Park, or will you first get Slovo Park and then Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Please repeat that question.

MR STRYDOM: When you come from the kwaMadala hostel side going towards the township, will you first get Slovo Park and then Boipatong township, or the other way around, that is to say first Boipatong township and then Slovo Park?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: You pass the township first.

MR STRYDOM: This hostel you are referring to, does it have a name?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know the name of the hostel.

MR STRYDOM: This hostel, is it situated amongst houses in the Boipatong township or is it on the side?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: It is close to the houses, this is not far from the houses.  It is also next to a big shop.  From the taxi rank, the hostel is just some distance away.

MR STRYDOM: So on the occasions you went to Boipatong prior to the attack, and you used taxi's, you could see this hostel?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: When you board a taxi from Everton, as you enter Boipatong, you enter by the garage and go down the main street and the hostel is close to the taxi rank.

MR STRYDOM: The question is if you use a taxi and you want to go to Boipatong, the taxi, you get out of the taxi, will you see the hostel?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: So on previous occasions when you went there, you saw that there is a hostel?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, I could see the hostel.  It is a mixed hostel.

MR STRYDOM: What do you mean a mixed hostel, is it for women and men, is that what you are saying?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, it is a mixed hostel, men and women and children live in there.

MR STRYDOM: I want you to have a look at Exhibit M1 and 2, but I will show you M2, that is the colour photograph, M1 is the other photograph, it is not a coloured photograph.  M2 is the colour photograph, I am going to refer you to M2, the coloured picture.  Before I ask you questions about this Exhibit, I want you to orientate yourself, have a proper look, see if you understand it.  I will point out to you where the kwaMadala hostel is situated.  It is just out of sight, but on this side.   The kwaMadala hostel is this side, I will also show you the factories, do you see the factories?  That is an aerial photo, do you see the Boipatong township?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes.

MR STRYDOM: Can you point out Slovo Park on this photograph?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I cannot see properly, there are many houses here.

MR STRYDOM: What I want to show you further, let me ask you first, Frikkie Meyer Boulevard, do you know the name of that street, do you know the street?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the address of the relatives that you visited in Boipatong?  What street did they live in?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I don't know the street name.

CHAIRPERSON: I am not asking you about Frikkie Boulevard, I am asking you about the name of the street, be very careful, the name of the street where your relatives lived in Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not know.  I do not know the street name.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say you don't know the name of the street, because of (indistinct) - did you say (indistinct)

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Yes, I am not educated therefore I cannot know which name is which.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the house number?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I do not remember it well.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, in regard to any of your relatives who were in Boipatong, you don't know the street names or the house numbers?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I just know the physical houses.

CHAIRPERSON: I see, yes.

MR STRYDOM: You know the road that runs from Vanderbijlpark to Sebokeng, the tar road, do you know the road?  I want to show it on this picture, and I will also show you the garage on the corner and the tar road that turns across this picture.  Do you know that road?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I cannot say I do know the road, I just see a lot of houses in the picture.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, but forget about the picture now, when you come from kwaMadala hostel and you want to go to Boipatong, you will cross a tarred road, is that correct?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Are you referring to the road from Vanderbijl to Sebokeng, because there is a road from Vanderbijl to Sebokeng and there is also another one that goes into the township itself.  You can also use the roads that goes via a bush or forest.

MR STRYDOM: I am referring to the road that will take you from Vanderbijl to Sebokeng, the tar road you will cross if you come from kwaMadala hostel and you want to go to Boipatong.  That is Frikkie Meyer Boulevard, do you know that road?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I do not know it.

MR STRYDOM: You testified already that there is an intersection there at the garage, is that correct?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Please repeat that.

MR STRYDOM: At the garage, there is an intersection, is that correct?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: That is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Now, which two roads intersect there?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: There is a road that goes under the bridge from the hostel, there is also a garage and factories.  There is one road that takes you to the hostel, to the township and there is another one that takes you towards Sebokeng and the garage is just there.

MR STRYDOM: And there is a robot there at the intersection, is that right?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: True.

MR STRYDOM: The night of the attack, when you left the hostel with the other attackers, which route did you follow towards Boipatong?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: We left the main gate of the hostel and we went along the tar road and went under the bridge.  We did not take the tar road towards Boipatong, but there is a forest near the hostel and that is the route which we took.  From that spot, the garage is a distance away.  That is where we stopped and found the casspirs waiting for us.

CHAIRPERSON: Just repeat again.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: We went under the bridge from the hostel, there is a clump of trees near the robots, we did not take the street, the tarred roads towards Boipatong township, but there is a route towards that forest, it was a forest in Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Is a road or just a path?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: It is a footpath.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Before you reach the township itself.

MR STRYDOM: On your way to Boipatong that night, did you go passed that robots at the garage?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, we did not take that route, we took the other one that moved towards the veld.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were the casspirs?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: They parked at the veld, just before you get into the township.

MR STRYDOM: I want to put to you that in your evidence in chief, you said that the group went to the robots at the garage.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: I mentioned that on our way back, that is where we went, not on our way to the township.  I mentioned that route when I was questioned on the route we took on our way back from Boipatong.

MR STRYDOM: I can refer you to my note, in fact it says ...
"... we took the main road and we went to the BP ...",
	in fact you said the BP, not the robot, the BP, referring to the garage?

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: Please repeat that.

MR STRYDOM: In your evidence in chief, you testified that we took the main road and my note is then went to the BP garage.

ANDRIES MATANZIMA NOSENGA: No, I was questioned on the route we took on our return.    I explained the route we took and where the casspirs were parked.  When we came back, we went via that route near the BP garage.  I don't know whether you misunderstood me or what.