Special Hearings — Mandela United Football Club Hearings — UNKNOWN

MR MAKANJEE: How did they assault you?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I met them in Imzimshlope, I'd gone to see my girlfriend and when we were going back myself and Ntodo - it was already dark, I just saw a person grabbing me from the back and telling me that he wanted to see me.  We went into another house and they sat me down.  Jerry went out to talk to a certain man and came back, grabbed me and said we should go so all of us went out.
 I was asking myself what was happening.  I got a chance to escape once more, they chased me and they caught up with me and at that time I didn't have a chance to escape one more because I was grabbed on both sides.  I was taken into an open veld, they kicked me and I fell onto the ground and I thought I was going to be shot but at a later stage I discovered that they did not have a gun. 
 Amongst these men there was another one who was trying to dismantle the garden shears and it came into two pieces and  ...[indistinct] pointed at one guy to come and stab me but this guy refused and Jerry took the garden shears himself and stabbed me on the chest.

MR MAKANJEE: Did he stab you anywhere else?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, on my neck or throat.

MR MAKANJEE: Sorry, is that "No, on your neck"?  So are you saying he didn't stab you?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: It was only on the neck.

MR MAKANJEE: Can you show us where he stabbed you.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Where I'm pointing.

MR MAKANJEE: Okay.  Did you think they thought they had left you for dead at that stage?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, because they lifted me up and dropped me into some reeds and a swamp there and I could hear their footsteps fading away as they were walking away from the scene, that's when I decided to drag myself and go and get some help.

MR MAKANJEE: Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR MAKANJEE: In a letter dated the 21st of April 1995 from the National Intelligence Agency to the Commanding Officer of the SAPS, it was stated that you were approached by some members of the Mandela United Football Club who asked you to join the SANDF or who in fact ordered you to join the SANDF to prevent you from talking about the death of Toli Dlamini, is this true?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, that's not true.

MR MAKANJEE: Thank you, no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I think perhaps we should take a tea break, let's get back at half past 4, thank you very much.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Makanjee, you say there was one or two things that you - yes, all right.

MR MAKANJEE: Thank you Mr Chair.
 Mr Ikaneng, after your assault where your throat was cut, did you go into hiding?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes.

MR MAKANJEE: Then in 1990 ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Can you please - people please, thank you very much.

MR MAKANJEE: In 1990 you were assaulted again, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, it's true I was shot.

MR MAKANJEE: Who shot you Mr Ikaneng?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Mateo a member of the Mandela Football Club.

MR MAKANJEE: Why did they want to kill you, do you know?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: I think it's linked to the first attempt as well as the second one where I managed to escape, probably they still wanted to kill me for the very same reasons.

MR MAKANJEE: Thank you, nothing further Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Piers?

MR PIGOU: Thank you Chair.
 Mr Ikaneng, I just want to go back to the context of the formation of the football club and ask you whether you agree or disagree with what I put forward to you.  Do you recall the death of a Masabata Luate, the sister of Wilson Sebuwane who was also known as Magojo?  Was the death of this woman - did this result in tension and fighting within SAYCO, the Soweto Youth Congress Movement of which I believe you were a member at the time?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I do remember.

MR PIGOU: And was it as a result of this fight that the football club came together, that there was a decision to bring people together and find some activities for these people to undertake and that a decision was taken at a meeting that you would play football?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: Were you present at that meeting Mr Ikaneng?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Which meeting are you referring to?

MR PIGOU: Where the decision was taken to form a football club.

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I was present.

MR PIGOU: So the football club members were people from two opposing sides so to speak, would that be correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is correct.

MR PIGOU: And was this tension between the two sides apparent throughout the course of the next few months - I know you were in detention but after you came out of detention late '87 beginning of '88, throughout that period did that tension continue - throughout this period, between people on both sides of this original conflict?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No, it didn't.

MR PIGOU: Okay, thank you.  We're just going to go to the Daliwonga incident and I'd just like to draw your attention to Mrs Madikizela-Mandela's response when we asked her about this in the in-camera hearing.  You gave us a version about the Mandela Sisters and one of these members having been raped and then subsequently members of the football team - including yourself, assaulting these people.  Now, the response Mrs Mandela has given to us on page 134 of the second in-camera hearing was that
"There was no such incident that occurred and there was no such report brought to my attention and there was no such a thing as Mandela Sisters"
Could you respond to that?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: She knows everything, she's very clear about all that happened and I don't know why she's denying all that.

MR PIGOU: Did you give an interview to John Carling in 1990 - that's John Carling from BBC, in which you also describe these incidents?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I did.

MR PIGOU: And during the same interview there's a quotation attributed to Mr Katiza Cebekhulu, now did you know Mr Cebekhulu at all?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: No.

MR PIGOU: Have you ever met him?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I met him in the residential area when I was still working at Winnie's tavern.

MR PIGOU: And what year was this that you met Mr Cebekhulu?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: It was in 1990.

MR PIGOU: Thank you.  Could you just confirm to us, you've mentioned the name of Biza in one of the incidents which you referred to, is Biza Mr Absolom Madonsela?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, I think his name is Absolom but I'm not really sure about the surname.

MR PIGOU: Thank you.  And you've also referred to a person by the name of Shoes, is shoes Mr Ronnie Sekekune?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, it is.

MR PIGOU: Thank you.  Now, in testimony that you gave to the court in your own trial: State versus Ikaneng into the murder of Maxwell Madondo, you indicate at a certain point that the reason for the attack on Toli Dlamini was because he had given evidence and Biza I think had been convicted on that evidence, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: Yes, that is true.

MR PIGOU: And as a result of him having given evidence against Biza he was branded as an impimpie, is that correct?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That Biza is an impimpie, could you please rephrase it?

MR PIGOU: Certainly, I beg your pardon.  Was Toli Dlamini labelled as an impimpie for giving evidence against Biza?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That is correct.

MR PIGOU: Thank you. Did you give a statement to the South African Police about your witnessing the death of Sizwe Sithole?  Sorry, I beg your pardon, did you give a statement to the South African Police in relation to the death of Toli Dlamini?

LEROTHODI ANDREW IKANENG: That is correct.