Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR HUGO: Another aspect that I just want to canvas with you is the false registration number plates. Where did these number plates come from?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The one we used we got at Barkley East if I am not mistaken.

MR HUGO: Well I would like you to try and think carefully now from whom in Barkley East did you get these false number plates?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: We got the number plates the morning before we left we got those number plates from that white man.

MR HUGO: Would you be able to identify this particular white man if a photo of him were to be shown to you?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't think so.

MR HUGO: Let's just get back to the incident or occasion when you were given instructions at Vlakplaas. Can you remember who gave you instructions when you left Vlakplaas to go to Barkley East?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The instruction we got from Bra Mos who was supposed to accompany us. Captain Mos who went with us. That we are going to such and such a place. He having had orders from those who were above him.

MR HUGO: Well let me put it to you that Mr de Kock says his recollection is a little bit vague as to what exactly took place at that occasion. Except that his recollection is that he just called you together and he just told you that you are going down to Barkley East with the general brief to go and look for so-called terrorists in the Eastern Cape. Can you recall anything to that effect?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Let me say I am trying my best to recall, I am trying to recall all details. I cannot disagree with him not  (...indistinct)

MR HUGO: Then I want to know more about the photo's that were shown to you, the photo albums. Were these photo's shown to you for the first time in Barkley East or at Vlakplaas?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: These photographs we had a photo album we got another one at Barkley East. Same photographs that looked like the ones we had.

MR HUGO: Yes and at Barkley East who showed you the photograph?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: We were given these photographs by this white man who was leading those from Umtata at Transkei.

MR HUGO: Mr Shabalala have you got any personal knowledge as to how these albums were compiled and how they were being used at Vlakplaas and by the security police in general?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As to how they are compiled I do not know but those photographs were there. As to how they were acquired I do not know.

MR HUGO: Mr Chairman this is once more an aspect that Mr de Kock will testify about but I definitely can't put it to this witness. Mr Shabalala is it also true that the arrangement was that whenever askaris and members of Vlakplaas would go down to a different region that they would then fall under the command of the OC that was in charge of the security branch in this particular region. Are you aware of that?

CHAIRPERSON: Fall under the command of whom?

MR HUGO: The OC, the officer commanding of the security branch.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes we were under such officer commanding.

MR HUGO: Now Mr Shabalala I just want to proceed a bit. And  you will remember that you said that you didn't have a radio in the car - and I am talking about this period after Mr Ndondo had been killed. You didn't have a radio in the car but you had phone numbers at your disposal. Do you remember saying that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes correct.

MR HUGO: Whose phone numbers did you have?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The phone numbers we had were of that white man from Umtata and also phone numbers at the Barkley East police station.

MR HUGO: And what other numbers did you have?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I think the ones we had are that two only that we used when we were around in Transkei.

MR HUGO: Didn't you have a phone number of a person in Elliot as well?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I cannot be certain about that. It could be that Captain Mos had it but I knew about the one at Barkley East.

MR HUGO: I am not clear in my own mind when you said that you had a phone number of this white policeman in Umtata. Is this now a different person from the white man that you met at Barkley East when you came down in the first place?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I am referring to the same person, the one we met at Barkley East. We had his phone numbers and of the police station at Barkley East.

MR HUGO: Ja but why did you say the white man from Umtata, was he stationed at Umtata and did he just meet you at Barkley East or what is the situation?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is my mistake. I meant the one at Barkley East, the one we met at Barkley East.

MR HUGO: Mr Shabalala you also make mention of the fact that the sliding door of the kombi could only be opened from outside. Can you recall that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: What I said was that when you are inside you could only open the door from outside. Not that it would open outside but that you could only open the door with your hand from the outside.

MR HUGO: Yes. Now was there anything sinister about this? Was this done in anticipation of an operation that would be carried out or did it just happen in a sense that the handle fell off or just got lost during other operations?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: The door had always been defective for a long time it has been defective and we were using that car as it was.

MR HUGO: I also just want to get to the question of the tinted windows of the kombi. What was the purpose of the tinted windows as far as you were concerned?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As far as I know the reason why the windows had to be tinted that enabled us to see outside who may not be able to identify us who were inside the kombi.

MR HUGO: So to really put it in a nutshell it was to protect the identities of the askaris inside the kombi?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: That is what I can say yes.

MR HUGO: Now Mr Shabalala I just want you to go to page 62 of the bundle of documents in front of you.

MALE SPEAKER 1: Through you Mr Chairperson before that I would like to ask one question in connection with the door. Mr Shabalala was it not deliberate that the door could not be opened from within the kombi and perhaps to assist you do you know of any other vehicle used by security police whose door would not open from within? For example to prevent people who have been arrested from escaping? Do you understand my question?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I hear the question. But you see we used a lot of cars but this kombi particularly I saw it that way but others we had normal cars that you could open from inside or outside. But this one had a problem with his door. I do not know who made it that way. I would not be able to account for that.

MALE SPEAKER 1: In other words you are saying it was not normal practice for vehicles used by security police to be made in such a way that the doors should not open from within?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: As far as I am concerned this is the only kombi that I found to be like that and I did not take special note as to whether that was made deliberately for perhaps holding people hostage who are inside. I did not take note.

MALE SPEAKER 1: Thank you Mr Chairperson.

MR HUGO: Mr Shabalala after the incident you testified that you went to the police station at Elliot and that there were a lot, well if I say a lot I might be mistaken but there were white people there. Can you remember that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: When we went to that police station I do not remember myself alighting from the car. It was Captain Mos who went out and went into the charge office and then returned accompanied by two white people I do not know for sure. If I am not mistaken two white men.

MR HUGO: Is it two at Elliot who was at that particular point in time not part of the Transkei? This was now part of South Africa.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes that was the case.

MR HUGO: And the two white men that came out with Bra Mos were they the same or let me rather put it - do you know who they are?