Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: Mr Chairman, may I just add one or two comments which   I feel are necessary to be made in the light of the submissions that have been   made?
It is correct and it is only fair that in all honesty we have to accept that   in the past so-called leaders of the Hindu community, and I emphasise so-called   Hindu leaders, failed hopelessly and miserably in voicing their protest against   apartheid. The few who did, did so passively and not actively or for that matter   even militantly, while other Hindus who were not able to compromise their beliefs,   distanced themselves from the Hindu community leaders and in the process, from   Hindu organisations and as much as one hates at a Truth Commission Hearing to   talk about oneself, I would be unfortunately one of those, who distanced myself   from the Hindu organisations for the very same reasons. And as Hindu leaders   they, far from protesting, in many instances supported and condoned the actions   of the then ruling government. For this I must apologise on behalf of my community   because the community failed to remove these leaders when they were openly failing   to exercise their Hindu duty, forget about anything else. 
Of course there were perceptions that were created that Hindus were part of   the system and these perceptions I would like to submit, were created by the   manipulations of the then ruling order, cleverly disguised to create the impression,   so that hostility would ferment [TAPE 2]and particularly the black community   in this country. 
I would like to conclude by saying and by submitting that these people that   I have just spoken about on behalf of whom I have apologised, were a minority   few in the Hindu community. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I don't know whether your colleagueplease   switch off yourthank you. Whether there is anything you want to add? Please   just say again who you are.

MR R KALLIDEEN: My name is Kallideen, Secretary of the South African Hindu   Maha Sabha. I would just like to add that in spite of the difficulties and the   hardship that the Hindu community suffered over the years, many of our major   affiliates have thought of the difficulties experienced by those who suffered   in the townships and in those disadvantaged areas. I would like to say that   three of our major organisations from a long time have been involved in the   Food for Life, and are still involved and on a daily basis, each of these three   organisations are handing out hampers in the region of about 5000 daily to those   unfortunate people and even in the Transvaal, a Hindu organisation there, on   each Sunday is distributing food hampers at Atteridgeville and together with   the traditional church of South Africa, Independent Church of South Africa,   it is also busy distributing blankets and clothing to the unfortunate people   in that part of the world. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very, very much. We are very deeply grateful to you   for your contribution. Virginia Gcabashe?

UNKNOWN: Thank you your Grace. I would first like to thank you for the   presentation that you have made today. It was quite clear to us and I am also   grateful that you have two presentations here and the first speaker concentrated   on the first presentation, but the second speaker has touched on the second   presentation so I'm sure we will be able to engage you in both presentations.   And what I would like to say is that it is surprising that in both presentations,   they are almost similar, so both of you should be able to be comfortable with   both.
My first question is that I do realise how you as people who have come from   India have suffered in this country and maybe you have suffered just in the   same way as Africans have suffered in this country, although it was their country   of birth. I would first like to ask you about the distinction that you make   on affirmative action. Both papers seem to indicate that you are not quite happy   with affirmative action. Maybe you could explain this a little bit more?

UNKNOWN: I think it needs an explanation and I'm glad you're giving   me an opportunity to giving me an opportunity to do so.
I think that it's not a question of being unhappy as opposed to the perception   that has been created in the community out there. The perception being that   affirmative action applies to everyone other than black people, and that is   a perception that we need to address. As a Hindu community we address it constantly,   at every opportunity that we get, in trying to point out that you can't try   to compare 35 million disadvantaged people who have been completely deprived,   and you try to compare that against the rights of a million people who are a   minority. Our submission there is based on perceptions and we need to address   it to correct that perception, because if it's not corrected, we feel that it's   going to actually create animosity and unpleasantness, which we can ill-afford   at this stage. So that is the basis on which that submission has been made.

UNKNOWN: You also make a comment aboutthis is in your presentation,   that a society with a high moral and ethical behaviour does not need the strong   arm of the law for the enforcement of strict penalties. Could you also indicate?

UNKNOWN: I think that is a moral argument and it's really a moral   teaser for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I'd hoped that you were   not gong to ask me that question, but since you have, I must confess that it's   a teaser for you. You have, as religious people with strong religious background,   you have this belief that, you know, out there you don't really need to punish   people and put them in jail, if you can through the medium of our religious   institutions, like the churches, like the temples, like the Mosques and everything   else, instil a high moral sensitivity within them. If you do that, then we don't   have to cry to the courts and to our poor ministers who've got other problems,   insisting that they keep changing the laws every day to try and create the impression   that the government is getting tougher. If our religious teachings are as strong   as they ought to be, we feel that punishment would be a natural consequence   and not one where the pressure is being brought on the government, almost on   an hourly basis, let alone a daily basis, to continue to change the law to seem   as if there is a stronger attitude. So that is basically what we submit.

UNKNOWN: You mentioned also that most of the Indian children had to go   outside the country for their tertiary education. And then somewhere there is   also a fear that you raised that maybe this same thing might have to happen   in the post apartheid situation. Could we hear what you are basing this fear   on?

UNKNOWN: That's not a submission that was made by ourselves. I   think it is a submission made by Professor Joshee. I can, if you want me to   deal with it since it's there, I could deal with it on the basis that that is   again a perception. It is an unwarranted perception which needs to be corrected.   I think it's unfair for people to cry now and say well, we are going to be deprived.   I think you need to look at the overall context of how many people were deprived   in this country, to the extent that which they were, it's a relative issue.   I think that is a submission which I certainly wouldn't support.

UNKNOWN: Would the Secretary like to respond to that? I am asking because   you made reference to the feeding schemes in Mamelodi and other African areas,   and this statement comes from the same document.

MR R KALLIDEEN: Yes, the document that you are referring to is the document   submitted by one small church organisation in the Transvaal and does not represent   the views of the Hindu community of South Africa, including that of East London   to.