Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1997-06-11

ADV SANDI: After giving your testimony we would like you to give us those documents so that we can go through them.  In order to save time, you spoke about Irene Gwentshe.  Who is she?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: She has been one of the senior members of the ANC Womens League during the Defiance Campaign of the early 50's.

ADV SANDI: She was also tortured.  If you can just explain to us that before we can conclude.  Can you please tell us how she was tortured.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: From 1960 she was not working well, because the notorious Special Branch would come saying that, it was the Nulcut here in East London, Hattingh and others.

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, you have a long story and we have to write a book, because your story is very long.

CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry Mr, I am sorry Mr ...

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, I am sure that, Mr Gwentshe, by coming before the Commission you have expectations or requests and I would like to ask you to tell us those requests.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: My request from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

ADV SANDI: Your request concerning these matters.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  It would give me great pleasure if the Truth and Reconciliation Commission would liaise with the leadership of the ANC to investigate the atrocities perpetrated by the notorious Donald Card and others on the Gwentshe family in particular and I would also be pleased, especially outside the borders of this country, the acts that have been happening outside the borders.  If the Truth Commission would investigate, because the manner I am going to speak about has been harbouring Gwentshe's children outside the borders of South Africa and that man is no longer with us now.  So that is none other than the late ANC military genius, Comrade Chris, who has been Umkhonto-we-Sizwe army commissar and second in command of the entire ANC army.  I would be pleased if I get the Truth Commission, because it was Chris Hani who was keeping Gwentshe's family outside this country.  I would be pleased if the Truth and Reconciliation Commission would investigate as to who attacked Mr Chris Hani's house in August, in August, September 1981.
 For instance, for instance you have already said that my story is too long.  There is something I forgot.  When I was coming from Maseru I was arrested, I was a regular visitor of the ANC.  When I came here ...

ADV SANDI: Excuse me Mr Gwentshe, I would like you to focus on this written statement, the one you submitted in the Truth and Reconciliation offices.  In conclusion, you made a request that you would like the TRC to investigate the perpetrators who were harassing the Gwentshe family.  You would like to know them and to know the reason for this.  Do you have any other requests except this one?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: The letter bomb explosion which was sent by ascaris and the ascaris, the ascaris said that I had to be given this bomb, because at that time I was from Maseru.  There was an ascari who was there.  He was sent by the notorious South African Government.  This ascari sent this letter and it exploded in NU3.  The receiver of this letter was the late Irene Gwentshe, my mother.

ADV SANDI: Mr Gwentshe, I will hand over to the Chairperson.  If you have forgotten something when you were testifying you will be asked questions to clarify.  I am very sorry, because we do not have time and the way you gave us your testimony, you also included a lot of things that are not in your testimony.  We might be coming back to you to take detailed statements especially in the new events.  Thank you Mr Gwentshe.  Thank you Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gwentshe, I would like to know, in your statement you said that Donald Card did something to you.  Is that correct?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Mr Chairperson, I did not say that he did something to me, but he did something to my family members.  My two elder brothers, the late Mzwandile and Mzimkulu.  I can explain in details Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Not for now, thank you.  He did not do anything to you, but to your family members?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: The late Irene Gwentshe, Mzwandile Gwentshe, the late Mzimkulu Gwentshe and the late Alcott Gwentshe, ANC leader.

CHAIRPERSON: In your written statement you mentioned that there was something done to Mzwandile.  I do not see anything about Irene and Alcott Gwentshe.  So we are going to talk about Mzwandile and Mzimkulu.  Can you please explain to the Commission what did Donald Card to Mzwandile Gwentshe.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: I did not see what he did, but Mzimkulu saw it, because he was the one arrested with his brother.  That is why in my written statement I did not talk about Mzimkulu and Irene, because the arrangement was that I was coming here to talk about Alcott and Mzwandile.  Mzimkulu was going to talk about himself and Irene.  Now that Mzimkulu and Irene had passed away, the family decided to send me to represent all of them.
 Let me come now to the torture on Mzwandile, on Comrade Mzwandile Gwentshe by Donald Card.  Mzimkulu said that in 1995 Mzwandile was assaulted in Fort Glamaken by Donald Card.  He was torturing them saying that they are doing things, because their father was the President of the ANC.  When he was kicking them Comrade Mzwandile would collapse and faint and with information, Mr Chairman, from reliable sources I am inclined to believe one of the prominent leaders, ANC, like Steve Tshwete, who was incarcerated, who was together with Mzwandile and Mzimkulu Gwentshe can come here and testify on what I am saying.  He can come here and confirm this.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Gwentshe.  I will ask you a question in English.  I am sorry I am going to ask you this question, but I have to ask it to you.  This matter is going to arise immediately when we read the statement from Mr Card.  Were you ever mentally deranged?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Could you repeat the question Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: Were you ever mentally deranged?  Were you ever insane?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: I was never.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Mzwandile Gwentshe ever insane?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Yes, after torture and third degree methods from the notorious SA Security Police, to the extent that he was admitted at Valkenberg Hospital in the Western Cape.  That is why, he was sentenced in 1964 for five years, but he spent most of the time in Valkenberg Hospital.  He was released in 1970.

CHAIRPERSON: The name of the hospital again.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: It is Valkenberg Hospital in the Western Cape? Because he was an epileptic case after much torture and third degree methods of the notorious SA Security Police.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, Mr Mzimkulu, last question.  Sorry, Mr Gwentshe, sorry, last question.  Do you know anything about the original command which was consisting of Malcolm Ncabela, Steve Tshwete, Ben Mashiyane and others?

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Well, that is the original command of Umkhonto-we-Sizwe, the ANC.

CHAIRPERSON: I assume, yes.

ZWELIYAZUZA GWENTSHE: Then Malcolm Ncabela, the late, was Umkhonto Commander in 1963, January 1963.  Then before him there have been Umkhonto Commanders like Alcott Gwentshe, the late ANC leader, who under the auspices, who under the auspices of the ANC whilst banished at his birthplace, Tsomo, because he was released by the Government, by the apartheid Government in 1960 and then in 1961 the African National Congress arranged for Gwentshe to secretly visit East London so as to address an Umkhonto-we-Sizwe inauguration.  So Malcolm Ncabela, the late, has been Gwentshe's right-hand man as from the Defiance Campaign up to the 60's.  There are many, many others with the leadership of the ANC.