Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-06-24

CHAIRPERSON: You've pointed out as to where Qeda was standing when you were talking to him.  We would like you to explain that more so that the interpreters will interpret this, so that we can get the distance between you and Qeda.

BONGANE KUALA: I was sitting inside the car on the bench.  Opposite that bench there was my sister.  In the middle there was a boy and two of them were lying down, they were already dead.  The two who were inside the bakkie, I think they were still struggling.  They had been shot at.  I was still thinking as to what to do to help them.  As I was chatting with them, trying to calm them down, Qeda and them came and Qeda had removed his balaclava from the face part of it and when I saw him I said "Oh, my uncle, I didn't know it was you and now I'm begging you not to shoot me."  I started crying.  He said he wasn't going to let me go because I had already recognised him, now I was going to tell the police about him and then after that he shot me.

CHAIRPERSON: When you were talking and pleading with Qeda, asking him not to finish you, were you still inside the car?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes, I was still inside, I was sitting.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you still sitting on the bench?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And where was Qeda at this time?

BONGANE KUALA: He was outside the bakkie at the back.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you estimate the distance between where you were seated and where Qeda was standing?

BONGANE KUALA: I will say this is the end of the car, the end of the table is the end of the car.  I am sitting on the bench like I'm sitting here and he is right outside there at the end of the car and he saw that I was the one who was talking to these people.

CHAIRPERSON: In other words he was close, very near to you?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes, he was.

CHAIRPERSON: When he shot at you, was he still standing there?

BONGANE KUALA: He walked as if he was going away to the other side of the car.  When I thought he was going, that's when he shot at me.  After that I tried to alight the car but then I got weaker and then they whistled to each other and then they left.  I lost strength and then I was unconscious and when I regained my consciousness there were police and soldiers in the area, or in that vicinity of the incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Where in the body did he shoot you?

BONGANE KUALA: Where I'm pointing, here and there, at the side under my arm.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he shoot you once?

BONGANE KUALA: Here it's three times and there's one on my buttocks.  Yes, one on my buttocks and three under my armpit.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sardiwalla do you have any questions to put to Mr Kuala?

MR SARDIWALLA: Yes, thank you Chairperson.

MR SARDIWALLA: Mr Kuala, did you ever see the applicant on that day, at that incident?

BONGANE KUALA: No, I didn't see him.

MR SARDIWALLA: You say all the others that were there had their faces covered?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes.

MR SARDIWALLA: And as I understand your evidence, after they had first shot at the car, at the vehicle, Qeda then came up.  Did he then open his face, or was it open all the time, or did you see when he did this, can you explain?

BONGANE KUALA: I thought they had already gone.  I was busy trying to calm down those who had been injured in the car, I was chatting with them and the only time I saw him it's when he was there standing outside the car and that's when I realised him.  I thought that they had already gone.

MR SARDIWALLA: And you say when he spoke to you he said, when you begged and said to him "please don't shoot me", he said to you "now you've recognised me and you'll tell the police".

BONGANE KUALA: Yes, that's correct.

MR SARDIWALLA: Wasn't it strange that he actually had a balaclava that he could have pulled over his face and you wouldn't have recognised him, but he chose to leave his face open so that you could recognise him?

BONGANE KUALA: I grew up under Qeda, he was one person I was under even in church.  After he did this, he realised that I was the only one who was still alive.  They came back and I pleaded with him to spare me, but then he refused.

CHAIRPERSON: Has your question been answered?  Are you satisfied?

MR SARDIWALLA: No, it hasn't been answered.

CHAIRPERSON: The question that has been put to you is whether it wasn't strange that even though he had a balaclava, his face was not completely covered as he approached the vehicle.

BONGANE KUALA: I don't know why he did that.

MR SARDIWALLA: You see why I say it's strange is because all the rest you clearly saw, you saw others there, but they all had their faces covered, but it sounds very unusual that the person who actually came to the bakkie elected to uncover himself so that whoever was there could see his identity.

BONGANE KUALA: What I can say is that I think, I personally think that he wanted to spare me but then he was scared that I was going to tell the police, but the way he carried this thing, I could tell that he didn't want to kill me but that he was scared that I was going to tell the police.

MR SARDIWALLA: You say you had a lot of respect for Qeda because you were under him as a preacher?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes, that's correct.

MR SARDIWALLA: Did you ever have a problem with him?

MS THABETHE: Sorry, Madam Chair, he didn't say he was a preacher, he said he was under him in church.

MR SARDIWALLA: Sorry, my apologies, I'll restructure that question.   So because you grew under his care, you actually were known, you had respect for him, is that correct?

BONGANE KUALA: Yes, that's correct.

MR SARDIWALLA: There was no conflict between yourself and him?

BONGANE KUALA: No, there wasn't.

MR SARDIWALLA: Do you know what position Qeda held politically?

BONGANE KUALA: No, I didn't know.  I saw him coming and shooting at us, that's all.

MR SARDIWALLA: I have no further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SARDIWALLA

MS THABETHE: No re-examination.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MS THABETHE

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kuala, we'd like to thank you for coming forward and giving your testimony of the incident which happened.  It is not a nice testimony but this is what we have to do and we thank you for that.  You can now step down.
WITNESS EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sardiwalla and Ms Thabethe, are you in a position to present your oral argument?

MR SARDIWALLA: Yes, Chairperson if the matter can stand down for a few minutes, just for me to confirm with client and assimilate information, I'd reckon about 4.30.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we give you 5 minutes?

MR SARDIWALLA: Fine.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: You wanted to be afforded about 15 minutes,  we indicated that it's 5.  We decided in chambers that maybe we should be accommodating enough and accommodate your request in your absence.  We hope now that you have had your 15 minutes.

MR SARDIWALLA: Yes, Chairperson, it's been a very, very fruitful 15 minutes and I intend sharing that 15 minutes with the Chairperson and members of this Committee.