Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

CHAIRPERSON: The following did not arrive:  Rosina Noqa, Florence Namabalang Ditwa, Nomobana Woodfield Kipje.  They were going to give evidence that Congo had done something against them.  It is sad that they did not come, so that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission could listen to their evidence.   There is nothing that we can do, however, because they are not here, but I want them to know that it is sad that they did not come.
 The last people that we are going to listen to is the following.  They are going to talk about the same incident.  Livingstone Siphelo Sapo, Velile Ngcamla, Nokuzola Phillip, Tshitshi Ndlazi, Simlindile Mabena and Mandlenkosi Tambodala.
 This is the last group of the day.
 (Witnesses sworn in)

MR SANDI: The incident why you are all here briefly is that on a certain day in December 1989 there was a march and at that march the police shot at people.   They shot people who were marching and they shot people who were not involved in that march.
 This means that you have the same story.  Maybe there is no need for each and everyone of you to explain the whole story, but on Sunday when we met, you elected certain people amongst you to represent you to lead the evidence on your behalf.
 You said that it would be Livingstone Siphelo Sapo and Simlindile Mabena.   The two of you, can you please come nearer to the microphone. I would like to clarify one matter.  If I remember clearly it is Mandlenkosi Tambodala in stead of Simlindile Mabena.
 Sapo and Mabena were leading the march at the time of this incident.  Tambodala was at the back of the march and he would give us evidence concerning that issue.
 Let us start with Mr Sapo and I would like you not to dwell on the boycott or the complaints about the workers, to save time.

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: There was a march.  The workers were
marching and everybody in the street joined in the march.  Is that so?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes that is so.

MR SANDI: The workers were complaining, but let us look at the shooting incident that happened that day.   Let me hand over to you Sir to tell us what happened on this particular day.

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: There is something I want to clarify if the Commission allows me.  This incident I can divide it into three.
 Firstly, it was on the 2nd December 1989. After the march one of our comrades whose name is Fikile Philip was run over by a police van in town, in Lusikisiki.  This is the first incident.
 We had a march on that day because three of our comrades were detained and I would like to mention their names.  It was comrade Nqokana, comrade Tombuzo and comrade Ngubane.   They were detained for a week and they did not appear in the court of law.  We visited the Chief Magistrate frequently because we wanted them to be in a court of law and in the second week the Chief Magistrate ordered the police to bring them to court and their was no charge laid against them.  This case was transferred to Qogeni to our Paramount Chief, Tnadizile.   It is where 
this matter was resolved.
 Before they were released, while they were still inside, on the 2nd of December 1989 there was a march while they were still inside.  It is when Fikile was run over by a police van.
 On the 6 of December we visited the Chief Magistrate to request permission for the march for the 7th of December.  He told us that he wanted to contact the Station Commander of Lusikisiki first, who was Maj Mjobo.    He contacted him on the phone and he responded that he refused permission for this march.  We were forced to have this march on the 7th and it is where the problems started.
 We were waiting for our lawyers, Sangoni and Partnership from Umtata, but at that time they were not there.  Whilst we were still waiting for them the police came together with the Station Commander, Mr Mjobo and Mr Zwilithle Qezo, who was the Station Commander from Thlabalovu.   They came together with the police who were armed and they had sjamboks with them.
 When the Station Commander arrived Mr Mjobo said that, I want you to show me a document to state that you have the right to be here and he said that if you do not have such document, you have to disperse within five minutes.
 After one minute he ordered the police to shoot.  Everybody was beaten up, everyone who was in town, in Lusikisiki.   Some of us took a line to Manthlayeni and they did not go home, because they were scared.  Those who were supposed to go to Port St Johns and Mambodi came to our area.  They did not go to their homes.
 It is on this day that comrade Tjetje got injured.  He was coming from a doctor and he was beaten up while he was standing there, waiting for transport.   The police came and they beat him up.  One of the police was Tamsaqa Ntanjana.  He was using a van which belonged to Malele.
 What I am trying to say is that this was the second incident.
 A third one which is why we are here today.  It was on the 20th of December 1989.   It was on a Thursday... it was on a Wednesday, sorry.
 We could not go to a public hall because there was a church gathering.  We forced to go to the tennis court.  While we were still waiting there ...  We were not going to gather there as such but we wanted to go out and pick shops because on the 20th, 67 workers were dismissed without a reason.
 There were pamphlets distributed on the 19th.  We started in town and we were in a bus and we came through to Gotzo with a bus, distributing these pamphlets, but in the morning we found out that the police collected all the pamphlets during the night.

MR SANDI: What were you saying in these pamphlets?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: We wanted to let people know that they were not suppose to buy in three shops;  Manqoyi, Dixi and Denkilos.

MR SANDI: On the 20th of December, were there any other shootings by the police?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Yes I am coming there.
 While we were waiting there for other comrades others were busy distributing other pamphlets in nearby areas.   The police came and I would like to mention their names, the names of the policemen that I remember who came to shoot us.

MR SANDI: Sir, according to our Act, the Commission's Act a person whether he is a police, a chief or a councillor or just a member of a community, before his or her name can be mentioned publicly, we have to inform this person beforehand.   Are these names that you are going to read to us, did you write them in your statement?

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Some of the names I have written down in my statement.  One of them is Maj Mjobo.
 I do not know whether Mr Chairperson will allow me ...

MR SANDI: No, I cannot allow that, because the reason why we take statements is that we want to know beforehand what the person is going to say in front of this Commission so that the person whose name is going to be mentioned should be notified beforehand, that his name is going to be mentioned.  If the person wants to come forward and defend himself or herself he has a right to do so.   This is the law and we have to obey it.  You can only mention the names that you have mentioned in your statement.

LIVINGSTONE SIPELO SAPO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
 On this day while we were still discussing the way forward a group of policemen came and they just shoot at us.   The first bullet came straight to me in my thigh and they were shooting at everyone.
 After that we had to defend ourselves by throwing stones and we had to take our knives out and there was one of the people who took out a knife.

MR SANDI: At this time that you were shot did you see anyone else being shot?