Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-10-13

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.  I was accused with Mr Biko who a PAC member in the court but in the incident he was not there, he was not part of the incident at all.  My view is that it was the PAC and the ANC that were fighting, he got involved because it was known that he was an ANC member, to fulfil the aims of the ANC because what they wanted to do is to be an obstacle in the PAC struggle.  He is the one who obstructed the aims of the PAC struggles in Fort Beaufort.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Chairperson I don't think the interpretation was right.  In fact the interpretation is that Mr Biko, he is the person who made PAC to be strong, to grow in Fort Beaufort so that's why he was mentioned as one of the people who attacking Lucky August, not the other way around.

UNKNOWN: I agree with you, maybe we can ask him to repeat what he said.  Can you repeat everything you just said?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I think that the reason why I was accused with Mr Biko is because the problem between the ANC and the PAC in the community.  Mr Biko was the person who was strong and helped the PAC in Fort Beaufort to be strong and to stand still.  The reason why he got involved was because they wanted to destroy the PAC altogether in Fort Beaufort and only wanted the ANC to exist there.

UNKNOWN: What were the names of your other two colleagues who were involved and were lying behind the hedge that evening?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Luyanda Zote and Thembele Fata.

UNKNOWN: They are both dead now I understand?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Correct.

UNKNOWN: Did they die as a result of this conflict?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No.  I was not there but I heard that Thembele was shot in a taxi war and Luyanda was stabbed by a friend of his when they were playing.

UNKNOWN: Were they involved in many fights?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I don't know them as such.

UNKNOWN: And after this incident, we know at least they've been involved in two fights now, well each one in one fight and that was fatal fights, but before that do you know of any other fights they were involved in?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No I know of no other incidents except this one that I am about here?

UNKNOWN: During that week preceding the present incident there were a lot of incidents where other people were wounded and attacked, were they involved in those attacks?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Not that I know of.

UNKNOWN: Were you involved in those attacks?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes there were incidents that I was involved in before this one.

UNKNOWN: Was Mr Biko involved in those attacks?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No.

UNKNOWN: There were two Mr Biko's, Mr Vuyisile Biko and Mr Tekane Biko, is that correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Were anyone of them involved in any attack?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I know Tekane well because I was at school with him.  He was a church goer, he didn't smoke or drink, he was born again, he was saved, he didn't like violence even at school.

UNKNOWN: And you, were you born again and a church goer and didn't like violence?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: No I was not saved, I was not a church goer.  I did not like violence but I did protect myself from violence.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chair.
	Mr Majebe, you heard in Court what happened and you heard the victim Mr Lucky August who was sitting down there narrating his story and how he was injured in the incident.  What do you say to that today?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: First of all I would like to say to Mr Lucky August that we were all in the struggle we must accept what happened during the struggle, he must accept as a freedom fighter but I know that it is not easy to accept this because I would not accept it either as I see him and the way he is now.  Because of the oppression of the time, of the day, we swore that we would fight against the oppression.  If he could find peace and realise that in a struggle in a war there are casualties.

UNKNOWN: And now answer the question that's been asked of you by your counsel.

CHAIRPERSON: It was put to you that you heard what he said in the criminal trial, have you got any comments about what his version was in the criminal trial?  Isn't that the issue Mr Mbandazayo?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson, thank you.  	Let me put it this way, you heard Mr August, what he told the Court, how he was attacked and what time of the day this incident happened.  Now I want you to comment on that.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Because it was in court and there was a case, he wanted me to be found guilty.  He said I attacked him during the day, it was not in the day, it was between seven and eight, it was in the evening.  We didn't talk to him as he said, that we asked for tobacco or cigarettes, we did not throw a stone at him as he said in court, we didn't stab him with anything but what happened is that I hit him with a pick handle.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's all Mr Chairperson at this time.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: You know there's medical evidence as there was in a criminal matter, that says that Mr August lost his sight as a result of being stabbed in the eyes.  Have you got any comments about that, do you know anything about that?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I heard that report from court and they way that they said that he was injured in the eye.  It was not a sharp object, it was a pick handle that I hit him with, not anything sharp.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct)

INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please repeat that last statement?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: If it was a sharp object it would have interfered with his brain or his skull, his skull would have been cracked.

CHAIRPERSON: Now look, all I want to know is whether you deny or confirm that he was stabbed in his eye, leave alone the technicalities of which neither of us is an expert.

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes I deny it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr  Mbandazayo, I want to ask witness a particular question but I'd like him to take advice first from you.  The question being whether he accepts in view of his last answer that Mr August's blindness is the result of his activities but I don't want him to answer the question, I want him to take advice first.  Secondly, maybe you can consult with him also, we have in our possession the judgment at the criminal trial wherein certain factors relating to medical evidence is mentioned, it does not seem that that section of the judgement in any event has been put into dispute.  I would want to ask you afterwards whether you accept that bit of evidence or do we need to call a doctor or whatever or solve that problem in any way the panel deems fit.  I will adjourn now for tea so as to give you an opportunity to consult with him.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: (s.u.o.)

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  As Chairperson, during the interval I did consult with my client Mr Chairperson and Mr Chairperson can ask the questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Majebe, there is evidence before us that the reason that Mr August lost his sight was because he was stabbed in the eyes.  Now do you accept, you've already said that you don't know anything about that, correct?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: I know that he was injured and the cause of that but the fact that he was stabbed with a sharp object, I don't know anything about that because what actually happened as I have already indicated before, Mr Lucky August I hit him with a pick handle.  He was supposed to be shot by my comrade who was later afraid and I decided to hit him with a pick handle.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you accept that he lost his sight as a result of your actions?

THEMBISILE MAJEBE: Yes that is correct.