Human Rights Violation Hearings — Uitenhage — 1996-08-28

CHAIRPERSON: We are now going to call Danile Wilberforce 
May.  Mr Sandi will lead you.

DANILE WILBERFORCE MAY: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mr May, when I look at your statement, your 
complaint is in a certain year, in the past years, a certain 
gentlemen whom you are going to mention later on, accused 
you in Port Elizabeth, that you were a police informer or 
sell out.  Because of this allegation, by this person, a lot 
of things happened to you.  Just before we get into that, Mr 
May, can we start with some of the important things.
Right now, you are no longer staying in Port ElizabEth, 
where are you staying, Mr May?

MR MAY: I am staying in Gauteng.

MR SANDI: Let's make it quick Mr May, and get into details 
of what you are going to talk about.

MR MAY: Thank you very much Mr Sandi.  I am one of the 
people who were in the forefront.  The people who formed the 
organisation called Zwide Residential Organisation.  I was 
with Mr Tozamile Botha.  The aim of this organisation was to 
fight that the then municipality, we mustn't pay for rates. 
By that time we didn't know that people are supposed to pay 
for water.  We formed this organisation.

MR SANDI: What year was that?

MR MAY: That was in 1979.
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MR SANDI: Can you mention again, the name of this 
organisation

MR MAY: It was Zwide Residential Association.  After this 
organisation was formed, we sat down as members of the 
executive committee, which among them where people like, 
Sipho Grootbom and Tolile Mbepe and others.  We took a 
decision that the level of this organisation is not big 
enough.

MR SANDI: Couldn't you form a bigger organisation than that 
on?

MR MAY: There was another organisation for the people of 
Fort Tishas called the Fort Organisation, and another one 
which was called Gwasakeli for residents.  With the leaders 
of these organisations, we formed another one which was 
called PEPCO.  During this time, in Zwide, Mr Botha was 
president, and I was his secretary, when we formed this 
organisation.  In all the meetings that we used to hold, 
they used to be big at that time because most of the people 
were mostly interested in this matter of rent and water.  I 
was always in front as a secretary of this organisation and 
Tozamile Botha who was a spokesman, this was for Zwide 
Residential Association.  I was a secretary and Tozamile 
Botha was a chairman.
 He managed that in this organisation, there was a rent 
boycott which was discussed by these.  I was for the rent 
boycott and Tozamile was against the rent boycott. The rent 
boycott was successful because I was always the MC of this 
organisation, and I managed.  I was a leader of this rent 
boycott.  The people were not paying rent in Zwide, the 
people were not paying for water, they were not paying for 
electricity.
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D MAY: In September, I can't remember the date, whether it was 
1979, we formed this PEPCO because we wanted this thing to 
take place all over, not only in Zwide, but also in Port 
Elizabeth.
 After forming PEPCO, since there was fault in Zwide, 
and Gwazakeli, we had to create Walmer and New Brighton 
townships.  During a certain year, I think it was towards 
the end of 1980 or the beginning of 1981.

MR SANDI: Excuse me Mr May, without interrupting you, I 
want to confirm that we are together with these events.  You 
are talking the formation of PEPCO.  It is you and Mr 
Tozamile Botha who were executive members of PEPCO?

MR MAY: Thank you.  Because of the fact that there was this 
rent boycott, which was taking place only in Zwide, I was no 
longer of the Zwide, but I was not in the top executive of 
PEPCO, so I remained being the secretary of this other 
association.  Being a leader of this rent boycott which took 
place in 1980.
 Towards the end of 1990 and the beginning of 1991, 
there was a residents meeting in Walmer, it was very hot.
During that time, PEPCO was popular in the Western Cape.  
During this meeting, we also had another meeting for Zwide 
residents.  I was left being a leader of the Randville Court 
in Zwide and I was in charge of that meeting, which was held 
in Kaalnets Cinema on that particular evening.  During that 
particular evening, the executive of Pepcore including 
Chume.

MR SANDI: Mr May, can we just talk about this meeting where 
you were accused.

MR MAY: I am coming bit by bit.  On that particular 
meeting, people like  Palochimoto, Zamile Botha from Walmer, 
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D MAY: were arrested by the police.  I was in Zwide, in a meeting 
there.  The following day, I got the information that they 
were arrested.  After that, as the people who formed this 
PEPCO, we took a decision that if they are arrested, we are 
still facing this matter of rent boycott, we rather start 
campaigning and fund raise.  We fund raised in Zwide 
Residential Association.

MR SANDI: Excuse me Mr May, I would request that you stick 
to the incident that affected you as a person, as a person 
who is complaining.  While you are still there, I am going 
to ask you questions.
 In that meeting, where you say Mr Botha accused you, 
did he tell you the reason?

MR MAY: No, he didn't explain anything to me, he may have 
told the other people.

MR SANDI: Were you present at that meeting?

MR MAY: No, I was not in the first meeting, the one that 
was held in front of my house, with his colleague.

MR SANDI: Who was present?

MR MAY: My wife was in the house.

MR SANDI: These two meetings that you are referring to, do 
you refer to the meetings that you are inside the house, or 
just the meetings that were held in an open place just like 
this one?

MR MAY: When he came back from detention, he didn't come 
back to the meetings because they were banned.  The meeting 
that he used to hold were the private meetings.  On this 
particular night, he had a meeting with Fort workers that's 
when they decided to go to my place where they held the 
meeting in front of my house and he brought these 
accusations.
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MR SANDI: Were you present?

MR MAY: No, my wife was in the house, I came, and it was 
towards the end of the meeting.

MR SANDI: Were there other people who came to you and told 
you that you are accused by Mr Botha?

MR MAY: When I arrived at this meeting, as it was held at 
the front of my house, when I heard that they were talking 
about me, and I told them that I was present, I wanted to 
know what was happening, but there were people who told me 
that Botha is saying this and that about me.  I wanted the 
meeting to continue, but the meeting was terminated.

MR SANDI: Did you ask Mr Botha what me meant by that?

MR MAY: About in the past 6 to 7 weeks I met him.

MR SANDI: I mean, during the time before he left the 
country, did you make any efforts that a person who said all 
these things about you in public, you meet that particular 
person and asked for an explanation?

MR MAY: During that very same week, I called a meeting, 
which was held in Countsnemmar, which was on a Sunday, as I 
wanted a full explanation.

MR SANDI: Did you get any explanation, what was the 
explanation?

MR MAY: The meeting was adjourned without him coming 
forward to explain the accusations, instead he repeated that 
I sold him out.

MR SANDI: You continue in your statement saying that Mr 
Botha left the country, going to another country.  How did 
you get that information, did you read that information in 
the newspaper, or what?

MR MAY: I was staying in no.32 Mangai Street, and he was 
staying directly opposite my house.
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MR SANDI: You even said in your statement, because of these 
accusations, you decided to quit politics, you decided to be 
a business man.  Is there any specific reason, or any 
motivation that lead you to do that?