Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-06-22

CHAIRPERSON: We shall now proceed to hear the next application, which is the application of Mr Ziphakamise Khumalo.

ADV DE JAGER: Is he only applying for amnesty for the murder of Mr Cele?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Molohlanye, Adv de Jager was talking to you.

MR MOLOHLANYE: Pardon, Honourable Chair.

ADV DE JAGER: Is he only applying for the murder of Mr Bhukunda Cele?

MR MOLOHLANYE: ...(no microphone)

ADV DE JAGER: Right.

MR MOLOHLANYE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And what about the attempted murder of Mr Ngcobo?  Does he not intend to apply for that offence? You are aware that he was convicted and sentenced to a term of 10 years imprisonment for that offence?

MR MOLOHLANYE: Thank you, Chairperson, I'm indebted to you.  This has not come to my attention, that the applicant did not apply for the attempted murder, also the escaping from imprisonment.

CHAIRPERSON: Now didn't you read your client's application timeously, and were you not also given by Ms Thabethe, the bundle of documents as we have it, wherein this is quite apparent from the judgment as appearing on page 26, or not?

MR MOLOHLANYE: That is correct, Honourable Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: So why did this not come to your attention timeously?

MR MOLOHLANYE: My problem has been one, as I stated earlier, Honourable Chairperson, it's that I didn't get enough chance of consulting with the clients because they are in custody.  The last time I saw the client was on Friday and this bundle arrived on the same Friday, after I had consulted with the client.  And as yet I haven't got a chance of consulting with the client.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR MOLOHLANYE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Well we as a Committee were under the impression that emanating from our chamber discussions with you yesterday when you were with Ms Thabethe, you were now going to make time to consult with Mr Khumalo with a view of preparing an affidavit, a supplementary affidavit that would even expedite these proceedings.

MR MOLOHLANYE: ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: This morning we were given an affidavit purportedly attested to by Mr Khumalo, and we simply took it for granted that this affidavit was as a result of a proper consultation which you had then had with Mr Khumalo, in which all these acts would have come out during your consultation with him because at that stage you now had possession of the bundle of documents, which include the judgment and sentence.

MR MOLOHLANYE: Thank you, Chairperson.  As I've stated, the bundle only arrived after the affidavit.  The affidavit ...(indistinct) it was attested to on the 18th of June, which was on Friday, and we made this affidavit with the client before the bundle arrived, in trying to eliminate problems where I'll have to wait for the indictment.  If it arrives on Monday, then I will not have time to make this affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Now what do you propose to do?  Do you have any application to make before this Committee?

MR MOLOHLANYE: Yes, I'd like to make an application to this Committee, that in this affidavit of Mr Khumalo we also include the charges of attempted murder and escaping from imprisonment as they are included in this - the escaping from imprisonment is included in the affidavit, but the attempted murder is not.  I therefore apply to the Honourable Committee to allow me to include that.

ADV DE JAGER: But can you introduce a new offence now after the cut-off date?

CHAIRPERSON: Have you had an occasion of studying the application form as it stands before us, Mr Molohlanye?  You know we don't want people to be shoddily represented.  I must say I am a little upset that it doesn't look like this matter again has been properly prepared for presentation.
	Have you had a occasion of looking at an application form, that's our application Form 1, as completed by Mr Khumalo, to see whether there was any room made for him with regard to the other acts, and that's the attempted murder, which is a separate offence, and the escape from prison?  
	Now what you have to do is, on the basis of what is contained before us, you have to apply, if you think you have any grounds to do so, for an amendment of his application, not the affidavit, because he is here because of what is before us, which is the application that's Form 1.
	Now we will adjourn for five minutes to give you an opportunity to go through this application properly and to take proper instructions.  We cannot afford to be adjourning all the time to afford lawyers an opportunity to do what they should have done before we start our proceedings.  It is, I think, eating away our time.  Our time is very precious, this is a very short-lived Committee.  We want to see counsel being properly and fully prepared so that we don't waste time.  
	We'll adjourn so that we can consider the matter properly and see what grounds you can base your application for an amendment of his application on.  Please study the application form carefully.

MR MOLOHLANYE: Thank you.  As the Committee pleases.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS