Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-02

CHAIRPERSON: That being so then can we proceed to hear the matter that is set down for today, that of Mr Mzobona Leonard Hadebe and Rapheal Senzagakhona Sithomo?  Mr Claassen, are we ready to proceed?

MR CLAASSEN: We are ready to proceed, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, are we ready to proceed?

MS THABETE: We are, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sithole, are we ready to proceed?

MR SITHOLE: Yes, we are, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Before we do so, may we for purposes of the record, have the legal representatives placing their names?

MR CLAASSEN: Legal representation for the applicant, Mr Dawie Claassen.

MR SITHOLE: Legal representative for the victims, J T Sithole.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  On behalf of the Committee?

MS THABETE: Ms Thabile Thabete, the Evidence Leader, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Claassen, which applicant are you going to commence with?

MR CLAASSEN: Madam Chair, we are going to commence with the application of Mr Mzobona Leonard Hadebe.  Madam Chair, before I commence, I would just like to place on record before the Committee, that as a Committee I'm well aware Mr Hadebe has submitted in support of his application two sworn affidavits relating to certain incidents.
	Madam Chair, it is my submission that with regard to the second, as indexed in the bundle, the second application, the second affidavit by Mr Hadebe indeed contains certain statements and submissions which are indeed of an incriminating nature, Madam Chair.  
	It is my instruction by the applicant that he wishes to amend his application to include some of these acts or omissions referred to in the particular statement.
	Madam Chair, it is also my intention then to bring a further amended application which clearly states with regard to which of the incidents mentioned in this second affidavit we intend bringing a further amnesty application.
	Madam Chair, for the purposes of the amnesty hearing today it is our wish that we wish to bring only an application as stated in his Form 1, with regard to the offence for which he's currently serving a jail sentence.

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Claassen, may I just interpose here?
It's not bringing a further application.  Perhaps you phrased it incorrectly.  I take it that you want to amend your application.  It's one application relating to various incidents.  Perhaps we could just get that right for the record.

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon me, you are indeed correct.  It is indeed just an amendment of the current application.

CHAIRPERSON: It is in fact, Mr Claassen, an amendment only of paragraph 9(a)?

MR CLAASSEN: That is correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Of Mr Hadebe's application?

MR CLAASSEN: That is indeed correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: And only to the extent of including the acts for which he has already in his affidavit, given a statement in support of his written application but which he omitted to include in Form 1 of his application?

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon my choice or words, Madam Chair, that is indeed correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can we then quickly, without having to make any elaborate application, can you just give an indication of the incidents for which he intended to apply for amnesty and which appears, I think from page 10 of the bundle.

MR CLAASSEN: That is correct, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Unit page 14.  Can you just enumerate the incidents for which you would like to have them included in Form 1 of his application form?

MR CLAASSEN: Certainly, Madam Chair.  Those incidents would included, I think it starts from paragraph 5 and specifically 2.10, the applicants involvement in an instruction or conspiracy to attack and indeed attacks on Vuyu Section of the place where he was staying and the attack on some of the residents there.
	Also as set out in paragraph 5, the illegal involvement in firearms ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: You say paragraph 5?

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon me, Madam Chair, I mean paragraph 9.
	Madam Chair, I also specifically wish to refer to an incident which is set out in paragraph 15, concerning his involvement with the organisation, Uwusa, and attacks in this capacity on the organisation Fawu.
	Madam Chair, further also an incident referred to in paragraph 19, which according to the applicant's statement, occurred sometime during 1992, involving an attack at a stadium in Greylingstad.  
	As well as a further incident as set out in paragraph 21, concerning an alleged attack on funeral goers, in which the applicant was involved.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  I think paragraph 9(a) is then amended to include not only the murder in respect of the incident that occurred on the 28th of September 1992 at Ratanda in the district of Heidelberg, but to include the other incidents as enumerated herein by Mr Claassen and as contained in the further affidavit deposed to by Mr Hadebe.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.  I wish to thank the Committee for affording me this opportunity to enumerate on the paragraph.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we must make it clear that we are aware that Mr Hadebe was completing this application without any legal assistance.

MR CLAASSEN: That is indeed my instructions.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you now ready to proceed in respect of the Ratanda incident?

MR CLAASSEN: I am ready to proceed, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Is Mr Hadebe going to take an oath?

MR CLAASSEN: He is going to take an oath, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hadebe, will you please rise?  Your full names are Mzobona Leonard and your surname is Hadebe?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: You may sit down, you have taken an oath.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, as I previously mentioned, you are currently serving a jail sentence for an incident which occurred on the 28th of September 1992 at Ratanda Hostel in Heidelberg, is that correct?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, could you tell the Commission if you are a member of any political party?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes.

MR CLAASSEN: Which party would that be?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: IFP, that's Inkatha Freedom Party.

MR CLAASSEN: How long have you been a member of this party?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I would say starting from 1990.

MR CLAASSEN: During 1992, were you a member of the IFP?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes.

MR CLAASSEN: In what capacity?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I was a Secretary General and also the Secretary.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you saying that you were the Secretary General or the Secretary for the particular region?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I was trying to say I was a Secretary for the Heidelberg region.

MR CLAASSEN: Thank you, Madam Chair.
	Mr Hadebe, during this time, 1992, you were also ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Claassen, I think he was still proceeding to explain ...

MR CLAASSEN: Pardon me, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: ... the other positions he held within the IFP, when I interrupted.

MR CLAASSEN: Could you please continue, Mr Hadebe?

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hadebe, you were explaining that you were the Secretary for the IFP in Heidelberg, and you wanted to continue to explain the other position that you held during that time in 1992.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I was also the leader of the Chairperson of the youth.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, during this time you were also employed, where did you work during this time?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I was working at Escort Bacon.

MR CLAASSEN: And you also lived in the Ratanda Hostel, is that correct?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

MR CLAASSEN: Mr Hadebe, on the 28th of September 1992, an incident occurred for which you are bring an amnesty application today, could you just briefly in your own words state what exactly happened, and your involvement in what had occurred.