Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-07

MR MACADAM: As I said, there was an interruption on my -and I didn't catch a portion of the evidence.  I just wanted to get clarity on that point.  Mr Mkhize, if you could proceed on further with your evidence.

WITNESS:   After

MR MACADAM: /we have agreed

MR MACADAM: 1A we have agreed that I will undertake the task, I suggested to them that since we don't have the solution as to who is going to work with me, can't they bring other Caprivi's, not the ones who are working at Esikhaweni, and I asked them why can't they bring them and I know I will be working with people whom I trust.  There were young men like Hlani Mpumatenjwa, Lucky Mbuyazi, Syabonga Mbuyazi and others who were just young men, who were still growing up.  They didn't have any military training.  I will tell the truth before the committee that I knew that they could hit at the ANC.  I knew that they were there and they were the people that were right in front of the fight in the Inkatha group, which was fighting against the ANC at Esikhaweni.  At the time when I refused to work with the Caprivians who were at Esikhaweni I knew that they were not helping these young men and it looked as if they have lost that inspiration to be part of the organization.  They didn't have the hopes and the beliefs that the party should succeed.  I knew that the young men were there and were fighting against the ANC and the fact that there were people who would proudly say that they were Inkatha members at Esikhaweni is because these young men were fighting the ANC.  Therefore I brought it out at that meeting that I should at that time work with these young men, and they accepted that, and I was told that I was going to be given the next instruction, and I was let to go.  They insisted that I will be working with Captain Langeni and Madlanduna directly.  Those were the people with whom I have to keep in contact at Ulundi.  At Esikhaweni I had to work timeously with Lindiwe Mbuyazi and Mr B B Biyela.  I left the meeting and that's how it

MR MACADAM: /ended.

MR MACADAM: 1A ended.

MR MACADAM: And after that meeting did you return to Esikhaweni?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

MR MACADAM: And what did you do then?

WITNESS:   I continued with my normal police duties.  The contact with the local leadership is something that has started long ago, from the time that I arrived at Esikhaweni, so I continued with such contacts, even if there wasn't anything that I did or things that I did to show that I was active.  It went on up to a stage where I was telephoned.  The call was from Captain Langeni himself, and he said he wanted to see me at Ulundi, and at the time the car that I normally used was used for a trip to Dundee, so I went to Mr B B Biyela and I told him that I had been summoned by Captain Langeni to go to Ulundi.  I asked him to borrow me a car to go to Ulundi, and he gave me a Ford Meteor, which was white in colour, and I used it to travel to Ulundi to see Captain Langeni.  I found him.  He was about to go for lunch and he said I should accompany him and we'll discuss these matters at his place, and we went to his place.  We arrived there and we had discussions, even if I can't be able to remember some of the things we talked about, however certain points were things like where I was supposed to get ammunition and arms.

MR MACADAM: [Break in recording]

WITNESS:   Yes, equipment - I mean everything, not only the ammunition, together with the arms.  I went to those places which he told me about.  He said I should go to Dunford.  At Port Dunford there was an Inkatha camp in the bush areas next to the KwaZulu Government Offices.  There was this house which looked like a home for a white man.  It had two rondavels.  And

MR MACADAM: /he told me

MR MACADAM: 1A he told me that I will find a Caprivian at that place.  The person was known as Thomas Buthelezi and I knew him from Caprivi, because we trained together.  However, when we went to train as police, he didn't join us.  He only had the Caprivi training.  I did as the Captain told me.  From Ulundi I drove to Empangeni.  From there I drove straight to Dunford and I continued into the Inkatha camp which was there.  At the gate I hooted.  The man by the name of Thomas came and he told me that he was waiting for me.  He took out those arms - the firearms together with the ammunition and, if I remember well, he gave me an     AK-47 and some ammunition.  I am making a mistake.  He gave me some magazines which didn't have bullets.  The bullets were inside a plastic.  They were mixed - bullets for AK-47, for shotguns.  He also gave me a stainless steel gun which can lodge 12 bullets ... (intervention)

MR MACADAM: The witness is saying it's a 12-bore gun.  It's a particular kind of shotgun.  Is that correct, Mr Mkhize?

WITNESS:   It's a calibre.  It's the calibre of a shotgun.  He gave me those bullets which are normally used on shotguns.  I took the arms and left.  It's from that time that I contacted the young men whom I have mentioned before.  However, I didn't go to attack with them.  I was just helping them to give them information about things, in order to make sure that they do their work well, and also that they are able to protect themselves when those people whom they were attacking retaliated.  I didn't even specifically give them an instruction to attack anyone.  They were working freely, doing their own operations, since they also had that aim to fight the ANC.  Some of them had already left school because of the violence

MR MACADAM: /coming from

MR MACADAM: 1A coming from the ANC.  It continued till the end somewhere of 1991.  After some few months, it was somewhere at the end of 1991, it became clear that, even if the young men were working, they were not effective because the ANC was attacking the people.  I went back to Captain Langeni and Madlanduna and I told them the work is not going well with these young men.  There is someone whom I have seen who became police, who had just completed their training somewhere at the end of 1991.  This was someone whom I knew.  I knew that he was brave.  Even if he didn't have the Caprivi training, he has been trained to be a policeman.  The reason why I liked him and wished that I could work with him, I knew how he loved Inkatha.  He was a very good friend of Siphiwe Mvuyane.  Maybe I should clarify or give a clear picture of Siphiwe Mvuyane before the committee.  Siphiwe Mvuyane was a well-known person within the community.  He was known as a killer.  However, he will killing a particular type of people.  He was killing ANC members and those who were sympathising with the ... (intervention)

MR MACADAM: Sorry, Mr Mkhize.

MR LASICH: Mr Chairman, I don't see this person's name on the section 30 notices.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that's because he's dead, Mr Lasich.

MR LASICH: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR MACADAM: Please proceed.

WITNESS:   I am trying to give a picture to the Commission as to what made me to trust this man and give me the strength to go that he should be included with the people who were supposed to work with me.  I knew about his bravery.  His name was Romeo Mbuzo Mbambo.  He was intelligent.  He was physically fit and he

MR MACADAM: /was a person