Special Hearings — Trojan Horse Hearings — 1997-06-02

MR ABRAHAMS: At that stage I was ten years old. As far as I can remember we were on our way to moslem school like my mother just said and we weren't even longer than 15 minutes at moslem school when they came to fetch us again. But at the time that we went down, the road was a bit quiet. There was a barricade but that was further down Thornton Road. On our way back, there was a casper standing on, it wasn't on Dalvie, the shop' s corner, it was on the opposite side of Dalvie's corner. On our way back to the Ryklief's house, we were told not to go anywhere outside but to stay inside the house. And me and a few of Aunty Jainap's children were playing on one section of the bed which was very close to the front door, at that time. Then we weren't close by hearing how Ismail Abrahams demanded that he actually wanted to go home. He didn't want to be there at that moment in time, and Aunty Jainap at that stage opened up the door. Apparently most of them wanted to leave the house at that stage and everybody wanted to see Ismail Abrahams off at that stage. All of a sudden everybody started screaming, shots went off. I didn't actually know what was going on.
 People were screaming in the kitchen. The children I was playing with, everyone started to panic and just all of a sudden, like, Ismail Abrahams and Shafwaan Ryklief and them went out, all of them came barging back in, which actually started frightening the rest of the children. And I remember tripping over a bucket that was lying in front of the front door, and I remember Shaun Magmoed picking me up and actually throwing me towards the other section of the double bunk that was (?) and I fell right over the double bunk. Whatever happened behind me, I can't remember. But I remember crawling down to Aunty Jainap's bedroom. There was a step that divided it up, the bedroom from the other bedroom, and there was, after the shots, everything was quiet. At one stage everybody inside the house was still screaming, everybody was okay. My mother actually asked me if I was okay and at that stage I said - no, it's just my leg that's paining a lot and Shaun Magmoed also asked me if I was okay and I just nodded my head. I didn't actually say anything, because people started barging in by the door, knocking against the door, they were shouting - open the door.
 This one big guy, dressed in army clothing, barged into the house. It was like he forced his way into the house with, there was about two others with him. He barged directly into the house, into aunty Jainap's bedroom, pulling Ismail out of the bottom of the dressing table. And his words actually to the others was: - There's one of the bastards who were throwing stones - and at that stage Ismail's eldest brother Ghalieb shouted - Leave him, take me - and that's basically all I can actually tell you guys, besides what Shaun Magmoed's words was at that time, because I looked directly into his face. It wasn't long after he asked me if I was okay, which he actually said something about the struggle must go on, and just collapsed in there. And that same guy that actually wanted to pull Ismail from the dressing table, he was the one that dragged Shaun Magmoed's body one side.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: You were ten years old at the time?

MR ABRAHAMS: Yes. I was ten years old at the time.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And your brother was six?

MR ABRAHAMS: Yes.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: It must have been horrific to be a ten year old and to be faced with police persons, brutality, blood and your friend busy dying?

MR ABRAHAMS: Sorry?

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And your friend, Shaun, was there, Shaun Magmoed, was dying. To be a ten year old to experience that must have been something quite terrible for you. Toyer, your mom suggested earlier on that we ask you a little bit about your brother. How is he, and can you give us an idea of how this incident has affected him in a way?

MR ABRAHAMS: Well I can't actually tell you about how it was then because for plus minus two to three months, I wasn't with my parents and I didn't actually see my brother, because I was staying at my mother's principal's house, due to, I couldn't take the sight of policemen and the rioting at that specific moment in time. But now it's like, me and my brother don't communicate so much. It's like I can't tell him what he must do and then it causes a major argument. It's like we ignore each other completely.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: So just immediately after the event, you were sent away to stay with your mom's principal at their .....from the hospital yes, after you were admitted to hospital and so on. You had to say because it was hard for you to be involved where there was any kind of activity.

MR ABRAHAMS: Ja, I didn't actually know what was happening around me. At that moment in time I didn't really know what was happening around me.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you were unable to take what was happening or, just explain what you mean by you couldn't, you didn't know what was happening.

MR ABRAHAMS: I can't exactly say if I was afraid at that time, it's like I couldn't understand why I had to be taken away from my mother and them, to go stay by my mother's principal. It wasn't actually told, all I was told it was just to calm me down and everybody was a bit busy at this time, worrying about my brother and that. But during the time that I stayed there, there was a lot of people that used to come to (?) place, that went to speak to me and there was a few nurses that came to find out if I was still okay. They treated my leg.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Right. But the separation from your mom was very hard for you.

MR ABRAHAMS: You can say that because at that moment in time, I wasn't so much by my mother and them's place because I was, one month I was at home, for three months I wasn't at home. And so it went on for quite some time.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Right, right. What were the extent of your injuries Toyer? You mentioned about your leg and so on?

MR ABRAHAMS: I was shot just above my knee in my leg

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Can I interrupt you for a moment, you're fading a little bit, could you just move slightly closer to the mike. Yes.

MR ABRAHAMS: I was shot in my left leg, just above my knee. That bullet actually penetrated right through my leg. And the only pain that I actually suffer now is that I can't also stand long on my legs then my one leg gets lame or it pulls stiff, but I don't actually go for treatment and stuff like that to the doctor. I actually haven't seen the doctor for that.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And that was the only injury you had.

MR ABRAHAMS: That's the only injury I had.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: I mean I don't mean to minimise it, but I'm trying to establish is how much injury you had.

MR ABRAHAMS: No it was just that one injury.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And you haven't sought any medical assistance since then?

MR ABRAHAMS: No. I've only seen social workers, various types of social workers, I've been at.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: How has this event changed your life?

MR ABRAHAMS: I would say, that due to the fact, that I was away from home most of the time, I don't actually communicate with my father, I don't actually communicate with my mother, nor my brother. I'm very much to myself.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: And is that important for you to be close to your family and so on, and the fact that you aren't able to communicate to them is it difficult for you?

MR ABRAHAMS: I think it is. So much importance.

GLENDA WILDSCHUT: Thank you very much for talking to us. I'll hand over to the chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Toyer and Glenda. Mapule?

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mrs Abrahams, I don't know if you can remember or not, but the policeman who was reassuring you, was he wearing the same clothes as the other one who had a gun?

MS ABRAHAMS: Just ask the question again.