Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-28

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: (sworn states)

MR PAPIER: Thank you Judge, Thank you Commissioners.

MR PAPIER: Mr Salie, you have also applied for amnesty in respect of the incident that occurred on the 28th of September 1988 and the Bontheuwel Municipal Rent Office, where Mr Bartlett, Nurudien was injured, is that correct?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: That's correct.

MR PAPIER: You were also the Commander of the Ashley Kriel Detachment of the ANC's military wing, MK, is that correct, at the time?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you mean the overall, Regional Commander or District Commander?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Regional, Your Honour, we operated in the Western Cape but largely the Peninsula.

MR PAPIER: And is it correct that the Ashley Kriel Bontheuwel unit formed part of the so-called cells or a unit within your Detachment, is that correct?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: That's correct.

MR PAPIER: Now when were you recruited, Mr Salie?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: I was recruited in early 1985.

MR PAPIER: And can you give the Commission a brief history of your involvement in MK after that?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Well, soon after Easter, I think it was, in 1985, I was recruited by one Leo Meyer.  Leo Meyer was killed in the SADF operation into Lesotho.  He was killed with his wife in the presence of their child of course.  I was recruited and trained by Leo Meyer and I was trained together with Shirley Gunn and the two of us, Shirley Gunn and I formed a unit of MK in 1985.  Shirley was detained on the 28th of August 1985 and sometime, I think the 24th or the 23rd of November or thereabouts, there was, the police had put out a ransom for me, they were looking for me and I was eventually forced to leave the country which I did  on the 3rd of February 1986 illegally to Botswana.  I trained in Angola and was deployed back into Cape Town, I think it was round about April 1987.

MR PAPIER: Where did you train in Angola?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: I trained at the David Rapkin centre which is commonly known as Pango in a town in the North West of Angola, called Pango.

MR PAPIER: Yes.  Now when you returned to Cape Town in 1987, what was your position?  What were you deployed to do?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Well initially I was meant to be part of the Ashley Forbes Detachment.  I had trained with Ashley Forbes and Peter Jacobs in Pango and they had preceded me and Ashley Kriel was part of that Detachment too.  Ashley Kriel and I had stayed together, we'd come down to Botswana together and Ashley had left before me because I had other tasks to do, but I was meant to be part of the Ashley Forbes Unit or Detachment, rather.  When I came back they unfortunately didn't make contact at the prearranged time and they were detained eventually, all of them, as you know and then I was instructed to be part of the Tony Yengeni Detachment and Tony Yengeni was detained on the day he was supposed to make contact with me and then thereafter we were asked to constitute the Ashley Kriel Detachment with myself and Shirley Gunn as the co-Commanders of the Ashley Kriel Detachment.

CHAIRPERSON: It sounds to me like in that way you worked yourself up to be in the command of the Western Cape.

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: With due respect, in the military you can't really work your way up.

CHAIRPERSON: By whatever means, you found yourself in the position of Commander?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Yes, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: By 1990, what position did you hold?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: I was still the Detachment Commander.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you proceed from then?  How did you play a part in the incident we are busy with here?  I'm sorry, 88.

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Your Honour, my job as the Commander of the Detachment was to plan co-ordinated attacks.  The blast at the Bontheuwel Rent Office happened simultaneously with two other blasts in the Peninsula that night and it was aimed at showing opposition to the Municipal elections, it was aimed at restoring MK's presence, ANC's presence in Bontheuwel in particular.  So my role as the Detachment Commander was to plan operations in the furtherance of the aims of the ANC and MK and my job was also to procure the material for those operations.  My job was to secure communication, to check on the safety, to be in charge of the logistics, the intelligence, all the normal duties that the Commander of such Detachment would have.

MR PAPIER: Yes, who did you report to Mr Salie?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Your Honour, we reported to James Mkulu in Botswana.  James, as you know was the past Secretary General of the Western Cape here, he's now a member of parliament and James reported to Chris Hani so we reported to Chris Hani through James, through Botswana.

MR PAPIER: Yes.  Now I think similarly in your affidavit you referred to the incident occurring in 1998 due to a typing error, it should be 1988, is that correct?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: That's correct.

MR PAPIER: Now, I understand that you were also instrumental in the reconnaissance of the Bontheuwel area, is that correct?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Yes, I participated in that.

MR PAPIER: And can you contextualise for  the Committee why the location of the limpet mine?

CHAIRPERSON: Well, did you participate in the reconnaissance of the post office in this particular incident?

MR PAPIER: Rent Office.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, the Rent Office?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: I did, Your Honour.  Would you like me to explain that?

CHAIRPERSON: No, no, no, I just wanted to know whether you participated in it?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Yes, I did.  We basically, when we received intelligence reports on possible targets, we checked it out very, very thoroughly.  We had people who did that.  I wasn't meant to do that.  I wasn't meant to be operational in that way, but I did it none the less.  I went to go and double check the information and of course we grew up in those areas, Your Honour, I stayed in Athlone before I went into the underground, so we knew the area very intimately and Vanessa and them grew up there.  We know that target like the back of our hands.  It's not as if we came from outside, we chose a target that was convenient, the reconnaissance was really - I mean it wasn't a target that was unfamiliar, it was the Rent Office that they used to go pay the rent anyway.

MR PAPIER: And the specific location of the door where the limpet mine was placed?

MOEGAMAT ANEEZ SALIE: Right, Your Honour, we attempted to destroy the building completely, which is why we added thermite to the charge and thermite, under certain circumstances, would cause  a fire, which is why unfortunately Bartlett the victim suffered such severe burns.  So our intention was to burn down the entire building with the use of this limpet, so it was placed strategically at the double wooden doors to the entrance of the building so that the force of the blast and the thermite would be directed into the building and as you previously heard, the idea was to disguise it amongst the rubble or the litter there.  The wind blows terribly in those areas there in Bontheuwel and the litter collected at the doorway of the Rent Office, so this was a disused milk carton, it was part of the litter that was collected, that the wind would have blown towards the door of the Rent Office and it's also so disguised because there was a very heavy Security Force presence there.  They were patrolling the areas all the time, they knew that these blasts were taking place, they knew Bontheuwel Rent Office was a target, so there were a lot of cops around, so it was well-disguised amongst that litter.

CHAIRPERSON: Was there another place where that bomb could have been placed, at possibly the same results?