Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

MR WILLS: Now, at the time you were operating in Ermelo, is it not so that you were staying in the same house that Noah Mqobakazi was staying in?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you got in paragraph sixty five (65), you mention that you got a warning by an SAP member to keep a low profile.  Can you just describe what happened there?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Roux Nkosi in his CID together with Maree, those are the people who were to protect me or make sure that I'm protected.  Were things to happen we're supposed to discuss it between myself, Noah and these two men, and they advised me to be careful.  That was the time where things were intensified because the Committee was complaining that there is a man who speaks - someone who speaks Zulu.  It looked like to them it was a policeman from KwaZulu who was killing people in the community.  Therefore they suggested that I should keep a low profile.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  I see it's eleven (11) o'clock and I'm going to now go to the incidents at Davula, which is a separate area.  Would it be an appropriate time to take the tea adjournment?

CHAIRPERSON: I think this would be an appropriate time.  We'll take the tea adjournment now.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Wills, you were just about to proceed to the Davula incidents.

MR WILLS: (cont)
	Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Hlongwane, before we get onto the Davula incidents, I want to put something to you.  I've been approached by a representative of the ANC community, Mr Ndebele, during the tea adjournment, who informs me that the Thembisa School that you referred to in your evidence was in fact a secondary school.  Are you in a position to doubt that or to challenge that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I will agree with him.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And further, that the person you mentioned as Frans Strydom who you say you shot in respect of paragraph sixty four (64), that was in fact incorrect.  The person, according to Mr Ndebele, who was shot in this incident was a person by the name of Jackson Kubheka.  What is your comment on that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I know that.

MR WILLS: And that this person was in fact over the age of eighteen (18) years old.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I will agree.

MR WILLS: Now, the person you referred to as Willie Frans Strydom was a person who was killed in respect of the incident that you refer to in paragraph sixty one (61).  This person had been attending night school and he was one of the persons who you shot coming from the night school.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct, he was one of the three.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And Mr Ndebele tells me that this person at the time of his death was actually twenty eight (28) years of age.  Do you want to comment on that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I would say they were older.

MR WILLS: Yes.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: All the three of them.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Okay.  I want to turn now to the Davula incidents and we're going to start at the bottom of page one hundred and fifty seven (157), at paragraph sixty six (66).  The first question I want to ask you, Mr Hlongwane, is how did it come about that you left Ermelo and went to Davula?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: On one particular day I was at Noah's place.  Someone by the name of Bonjesi came.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, could you repeat that name please?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: I'm sorry, it was Mr Mkhonza.

MR WILLS: And who was this Mr Mkhonza?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Mr Chairperson, Mkhonza was the mayor of Davel.  He said to me, Mkhonza, "I have a problem in Davel", and he was asked what problem was it.  He said all the ANC members have run to Davel and he said we shall go as soon as possible, and he said, "We want you to come and do what you did in Ermelo".  And I said to him, "Mr Mkhonza, I'm not able to do that because I was stationed in Ermelo and I'm working under Noah".  We had an argument.  We argued about it with this man also known as Bonjesi, and finally he said, "I shall go to Noah's office and discuss this with Noah".  And I said to him this is a good suggestion because I cannot on my own leave this area and go and work in another place because Madlanduna deployed me to work in Ermelo under the commandership of Noah.  Therefore we left and I went to Noah's offices.

UNKNOWN: Mr Hlongwane, may I interpose.  Were you not at Mr Noah's place when Mr Mkhonza approached you about this to assist him at Davel?  I thought that's what you said initially when you started your evidence.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, that's correct, Chairperson.

UNKNOWN: Did Noah have offices other than his house?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Ms Chairperson, he was working at the municipal offices.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Mkhonza came together with Noah and said the young man from Nelspruit who was sent by Mashinini and they burned houses belonging to Inkatha members at Davel.  I said to Noah, "Since you are here, I'm under your hands, what do you say about this".  He said, "You shall go".  And we said to him, "I can't go during the day because my work is to kill people.  So if I go during the day the community will recognise me.  So I will not be able to go around freely in the community".  Therefore I sent some Black Cats men first to the area.  They used Mr Mkhonza's car.  These young men, the Black Cats young men, went to the area.  On the same day, later, Malahlele came.  Malahlele is a member of the IFP in the town and he was travelling in a van or bakkie.  And there, after his arrival, I left to Mkhonza's place.  I arrive and slept over.  On the following day Mkhonza called the police station at Davel and another man by the name of Felani Mthethewa came in the company with a white person who was clad in a uniform.  They were driving an Ace AP van.  They all came in.  We greeted them by shaking hands.  I also greeted the white man.  Felani said to me, "I'm happy about your arrival because what you did in Ermelo it's what we expect you to do here", and I said to him, "I can't talk to you because I don't even know you and I don't even know this white man".  And he said, "You don't have to worry about this white man because the white policemen in this area hates the ANC", and he said to me that I'll travel together with this policeman.  I got into the police van and Felani will point out to me all the families which have to be attacked.  I entered together with the driver and Felani, we were three and we started driving slowly and Felani was pointing at all the houses.  In the morning I was with Mkhonza.  They pointed out one house at the corner which I discovered later to be belonging to Malinga, and we patrolled the area and when coming back we went via the Malinga house, and we just have talks with him, this Felani, and he left.  We dropped him off.

MR WILLS: Sorry.  Mr Hlongwane, you said that when you were at Mr Mkhonza's house, I want to take you back to where Felani Mthethwa and this white policeman came.  Was Mr Mkhonza there at that stage?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And did you have a meeting at that stage?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Between those three persons and yourself?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: And can you tell us what was discussed at that meeting?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: We discussed about the attack of houses at night.

MR WILLS: Now, you've made a statement in respect of certain of your activities in Davula in your application here.  Is that correct?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it's correct.

MR WILLS: But you also were subsequently, after this application was submitted, approached by members of the Special Investigation Task Unit operating under the then Transvaal Attorney-General Mr D'Oliveira.  Do you recall that?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.