Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-30

DR MAGWAZA: attend a conference.  One of the community members went to Umlazi to our relatives to relate to them what has happened back at home, and she was wondering how she could contact my husband.  They called my husband and told him to rush home, this has happened.  My husband went home.  On Thursday, when he was in the bus, he was asked - they were asking him, "Why are you in the bus at this time?"  He said, "No, I just got this message that my house was attacked."  They said they will accompany you.  They accompanied him to his place.  They could see from a distance that the house was being looted, and the house was just upside-down, and they could see the burglar bars were fallen.  They went inside, they saw the house was upside-down up to the bedroom where the child was.  There was a police already from the chief.  They covered the child with a blanket.  When my husband got there he saw the child there.  The child was lying on the stomach.  He looked at the child and said, "Well, it has happened.  I will accept it.  Please accompany me to the police to report this."  He went to King Edward, accompanied by these other police.  When he got there there were altercations also still.  They did not want to take his matter seriously.  They went back home and they took the child.  And he was taken to King Edward and he was taken to the Phoenix Mortuary.  We prepared for the funeral, and the child was buried at Inanda Cemetery.  We went to King Edward after that to open up the case.  Phindile was there in King Edward, though she was in pains, especially during the funeral.  She was operated from the chest way down to the stomach.  She was so much in pains and could not even realise, and also did not attend the funeral.  She was  kept by my sister in Ntuzuma.  When she started getting

DR MAGWAZA: from Empangeni, coming to assist me as a helper at my place.  She did not know many people in the area, although she got used to some people around there.  Phindile gave her statement and we went to King Edward.  We did not see the police doing anything about this.  The police never took this matter so serious or as an important issue up to this day.  And I had brothers that we used to live with before, but they left us after some time, they went to Empangeni.  Those brothers tried to get in touch with the attorney to attend this matter, but up to this day nothing much was done.  The case never went on.  We don't know what happened.

DR MAGWAZA: This is a pathetic story.  I know this day is a most painful day for you because you are recalling what happened in the past.  What I would like to ask you, Florence - when those people came they asked for comrades.  Do you probably think that there was one who was a comrade, or maybe one of the political organisation's member?

WITNESS:   No, I would not say there was a member, or a political member then, or a comrade or something then.  They had left to Empangeni, because we had another home at Empangeni.  I used to be at home there with my children, and the father will come during the weekends because he was working from another area, in another place.

DR MAGWAZA: What was happening at that time at Ndwedwe?

WITNESS:   At that time at Ndwedwe there were - it was a violent place, a violent place then.  There are some other things that transpired, killings and attackings, but we were not aware as to whether there were altercations between the political organisations or what, but still that was not taken up.

DR MAGWAZA: Were you affiliated to any of the political groups or something?

WITNESS:   No.

DR MAGWAZA: According to you, and in your own opinion, why do you think those people attacked your place?

WITNESS:   In my opinion I think that perhaps maybe we had a beautiful house, a big house, and young children.  That's why our house was attacked.  That house was destroyed.  What surprises me is that they killed an eight-year-old.  But Siphamandla survived this, and they took him with.

DR MAGWAZA: Why do you think this happened, and it happened in this manner?

WITNESS:   From what I think I think they wanted to do something so much painful us that we should never even think of going back to that house, and leave and leave that house.

DR MAGWAZA: Did Phindile see some man that you say is Mr Khumalo?

WITNESS:   Yes, she saw Mr Khumalo, but I don't  know Mr Khumalo's whereabouts.

DR MAGWAZA: Besides Mr Khumalo do you know of any others who were there?

WITNESS:   I wouldn't be so sure and certain about that, but there are people who know a few who were there.

DR MAGWAZA: Where is Mrs Khumalo who rendered some help to you?

WITNESS:   She left Ndwedwe for Mandini.

DR MAGWAZA: Let's go back to the case.  You went to open the case.  Would you by any chance happen to have the case number or some investigating officer who was in charge of this case?

WITNESS:   Yes, we do have the case number, and my family tried to get us in touch with another attorney here in town.  He tried, and the last I heard of this he was intending to go to Pietermaritzburg to the Attorney General.  I don't know whether the docket got lost or what, but there was some problem.

DR MAGWAZA: The attorneys that were representing you, where are they and who are they?

WITNESS:   The attorney who was in charge of this was Mr Ntuni.

DR MAGWAZA: Where is he?

WITNESS:   He is in Townsend Centre.

DR MAGWAZA: When last did you get in touch with him?

WITNESS:   It's quite some time that I have been in touch with him, because when I got back from Ndwedwe we tried to build another house to stay, and I could see that my life has changed.  I went back to school to the training college.  Whilst I was still at school it wasn't as easy for me to follow up, to keep up with this matter, because I would be disturbed as a person who was a breadwinner as well.

DR MAGWAZA: Where is Phindile now?

WITNESS:   Phindile is at Empangeni, Mbonani.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you know her whereabouts?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know where she is.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Mbatha, who discovered your child in the morning outside, where are they?

WITNESS:   They are no longer in Thafamaza.  They left that place, they went to Mzinyathi.

DR MAGWAZA: I'll come back now to your family and the harassment that you've been through.  How are the children?

WITNESS:   Because it's for the first time for me to have the children experience what they have experienced.  When I look and concentrate on my family there are things that do transpire and do take place.  I do explain to the teachers what happened to the children, and they do follow up with my children, and they have told me that they have those spells when they get frightened, and they have noticed and picked that one up.  This child has changed.  Even when she plays with other children her behaviour is very strange.  They will go to the bedroom and get the assegais and run after the other children that they are playing with, and that is very strange.  I sat down and this bothered me.  Even where I am now people tell me that the child is very rude and very indecent.  Because I know the background and what happened to my child I can tolerate what they are going through, but other people cannot.  I can't get a job nearby at my place, I'll have to work far away.

DR MAGWAZA: Where you are now you think that place is safe?

WITNESS:   I think it's a safe place because we haven't experienced anything.

DR MAGWAZA: What about Ngcobi, the two-year-old?

WITNESS:   He was still very young then, but when you related to him what happened he does recall there and there, and he will even ask me, "How old was I when my brother got killed?"  And I will tell him, "You were still very young."  And he will ask, "How did I survive?"  You know, those are the kind of questions he asks, and I can't explain much.

DR MAGWAZA: You as a person, I can tell that you are traumatised.  How did this impact on you?