Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duncan Village — 1996-09-23

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: What happened is, there was a problem with the school children.  They had their grievances and their needs and even the community had a problem with the Councillors.
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MR SANDI: Were there policemen and some South African
Defence Force members at the time?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: Yes, they used to be there all the time and they used to shoot all the time.

MR SANDI: Could we go back a little and talk about the shooting of your husband and talk about the funeral.  How was the funeral?  Were there any incidents on the day of the funeral which were of disturbance to the proceedings of the funeral?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: At the time of the funeral nothing actually happened.  We just buried my husband, though there were some policemen and some soldiers around.

MR SANDI: Now, you said you had children, two of them?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: At the time he died, I had one child, but I was pregnant, three months pregnant with our second child.

MR SANDI: Where are those children now?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: The children are at my home in Mooiplaas.

MR SANDI: But you live here in Duncan Village?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: Yes, I live here because I'm working here.

MR SANDI: Do these children go to school?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: Yes, they do.

MR SANDI: Are there any request or anything you would like this Commission to do for you?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: Yes, I have some requests to forward to this Commission.

MR SANDI: Could you explain and tell us what those requests are?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: My requests are that I need some assistance to educate my children, that is the main request I have.

MR SANDI: Is your explanation about your incident, have you told us everything about the incident?
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MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: Yes.

MR SANDI: Thank you for your contribution.  I shall now hand you over to the Chairperson who may give me permission to go on to Ms Mxoli.

BONGANI FINCA: Are there any questions?  Over to you, Tiny Maya.

MS MAYA: Thank you Chairperson.  Ms Zenzisi, I would like to ask you some questions.  Did you know who shot your husband?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: No.

MS MAYA: Was there any investigation that was done in connection with his death?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: No, nothing was done.

MS MAYA: Did you perhaps go to any police station to lay a charge?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: No, I didn't.

MS MAYA: Did you institute any claim to the lawyers?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: No, I didn't.

MS MAYA: Thank you.  How old are your children?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: The first is 14 years old, the second one is 10 years old.

MS MAYA: In what standards are they?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: The first is in standard 4, the second one is in standard 2.

MS MAYA: Thank you, Ms Zenzisi.

BONGANI FINCA: Ms Zenzisi, I would like to ask you another short question.  Why was your husband shot?  Do you perhaps have any reason or any knowledge?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: I really don't know because I last saw him when he was going to a shop to buy cooldrink, and then the next thing I heard that he had been shot dead.
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BONGANI FINCA: Was he perhaps a political activist at that time?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: I wouldn't know whether he was an activist at the time, but on this particular day he had just gone out to buy cooldrink.  But I wouldn't tell anything about his activities.

BONGANI FINCA: Over to you Ntsikelelo Sandi.

MR SANDI: Mr Zenzisi, do you perhaps - can you tell us that at the time were people just shot by the police and the soldiers who was walking in the streets?

MTSWEMBEYI ZENZISI: No, this was not a normal occurrence.  This had just started.  It started on a particular Sunday and there was just wild shooting, even if people had just gone out to the toilet, they would be shot.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you.  We thank you Ms Zenzisi,  Mr Sandi we are now going to ask Ms Mxoli.  I would like to greet you Ms Mxoli at this morning.  Are you in the (indistinct).  Firstly, I would like to make sure in short, that all this I've got here is right.  You are residing in Duncan Village in East London, is that so?

JANE MXOLI: Yes.

MR SANDI: You came here today concerning your son, Nothozayo Suthu who was shot, is that so?

JANE MXOLI: Yes.

MR SANDI: I would like you to tell us your story in full what happened to your son.  I give this opportunity to you, Ms Mxoli.

JANE MXOLI: It was on Tuesday about ten o'clock.  I was staying in Ntumeni and he was staying with my brother.  Whilst we were still sitting at home I was still looking at my other son, because he was restless - he used to go out
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all the time and Themba came - he told me that my son was shot and he was in hospital.
 While I was still sitting there, he was in hospital - I went with my children there.

MR SANDI: Please take your time, Ms Suthu, the Commission will wait for you.

JANE MXOLI: We went there with my children and while we were there, they told us he was dead.  We came back and when we approached Ntsolo, we met a car and this car took us and there were people who had thrown stones to this car.  (tape ends)

MR SANDI: (tape continues) ....  who were in the soldiers' car?

JANE MXOLI: Yes.

MR SANDI: Please continue, Ms Suthu.

JANE MXOLI: We came home and on Wednesday - and on Thursday my other son came from Johannesburg and on Thursday morning three boys came towards my house and they were passing, and they were running, they were followed by soldiers.
 And the soldiers came to my house and asked us who are these people and my son told them that I don't know who are they.  And the soldiers asked why don't you know them.

INTERPRETER: The Speaker's microphone is not on.

JANE MXOLI: My son told them Kinq told them to shoot me because they shot our son, but they didn't respond, they just went on and they left us.

MR SANDI: All this was happening before the funeral?

JANE MXOLI: Can you please repeat it?

MR SANDI: All this was happening before the funeral?

JANE MXOLI: Yes, the soldiers came and they chased these three boys before the funeral.
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MR SANDI: Were there any other activities which were happening in the township where your son was shot?

JANE MXOLI: Yes, there were many activities happening.  It was difficult to go out and fetch water, because they were shooting teargas towards us.  My son was sick, he had a chest problem, he was always hospitalised and that soldiers used to shoot us with teargas on our way to hospital.

MR SANDI: Were there any other things which were done by soldiers when they met people?

JANE MXOLI: Yes, the soldiers did many things at those times.  While you were on your way you were always praying because you didn't know what was going to happen to you.

MR SANDI: In other words, Ms Suthu, Ms Mxoli, together with Ms Zenzisi who talked before you, was it a miracle that other people were not shot during that time?

JANE MXOLI: I wouldn't say because there are casualties which happened at that time.  The soldiers caused many problems and many people were injured at that time.

MR SANDI: Did you go to any lawyers, Ms Mxoli concerning this matter?

JANE MXOLI: Can you please repeat?

MR SANDI: Did you go to any lawyers for advice?

JANE MXOLI: No.

MR SANDI: Were there any people who were arrested because of this shooting?

JANE MXOLI: No.

MR SANDI: Can you please tell us Ms Mxoli, how this shooting - what this shooting did to you?

JANE MXOLI: It injured me very much.  I am still in pain - even now because I don't know what was the reason for my son's death.
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MR SANDI: Can you proceed now Ms Mxoli?  Are you ready to proceed?  You said your son has a child, Pindiwe?  Where is she?