Amnesty Hearings — Palm Ridge — 1998-11-25

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, we are about to start.  For the record, it's Wednesday the 25th of November 1998.  This is a sitting of the Amnesty Committee in regard to the applications of members of the Thokoza Self Defence Units.  The panel is as before and Advocate Steenkamp appears for the Commission as the Leader of Evidence.
	Now I notice that we've got a number of applications, in fact there are four that are noted.  Are those the ones that we will start off with, Advocate Steenkamp?

ADV STEENKAMP: As you please, Mr Chairman, Honourable Members.  First of all let me apologise for starting late, Mr Chairman, it's due to unforseen circumstances.  Yes, Mr Chairman, the first applicant will be Mr Majiki.  His application appears in the bundle on page 273.  This is the bundle that is marked "Lusaka-A", that is Lusaka-A, page 273.  His amnesty number is 7693/97.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the one that we will start off with?

ADV STEENKAMP: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Just for the record and for clarity's sake and to be fair to certain representatives of the victims.  Mr Chairman, I received a memo dated 23/11/1998.  If I'm not mistaken you have a copy in front of you, Mr Chairman.  A copy has been signed by Mr M A Msizi.  I've received this memo via one of the Logistical Officers, Mr Lebo this morning by hand.
	There are certain requests in that memo and with your indulgence Mr Chairman, I will be in the position to fully respond to this memo by 11 o'clock.  I've asked one of the Analysts to give me more information and I would beg leave for you to make a decision on the contents by 11 o'clock if that is at all possible, Mr Chairman, within an hour.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, indeed there is a letter on a letterhead from Inkatha Freedom Party which is dated the 23/11/98 and it contains, in the final paragraph of that letter, a request that these proceedings which in according to the heading of the letter, are the hearings here in Palm Ridge as well as the simultaneous hearings in Vosloorus as well as the hearings that had taken place in Mayfair, to be postponed to a later date.  I assume, Advocate Steenkamp, that you oppose that request and that you are requesting the panel at this stage to proceed with the hearings and that you will respond to this in more detail later?

ADV STEENKAMP: That is indeed the position, Mr Chairman.  I would beg leave that we proceed at this stage.  Mr Msizi is not present himself so I would oppose this application made apparently by the Inkatha Freedom Party.  I don't know in what particular position Mr Msizi is making this application but at this stage I would beg leave that hearing as it stands be continued, thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think that we are satisfied that first of all there is no formal application for a postponement before us, but secondly, just on a cursory reading of the contents of this letter, we are not persuaded at this stage that we should be suspending these hearings and we will accordingly proceed to hear the application of Mr Majiki.
	Mr Sibeko, are you appearing for Mr Majiki or is it one of your colleagues?

MR SIBEKO: I'm appearing for Mr Majiki, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Are your full names Nicholas Mbuyselo Majiki?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibeko?

MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
	Mr Majiki, you are an applicant in this forum, is that correct?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, I am an applicant.

MR SIBEKO: You are applying for amnesty as a member of the Self Defence Unit at Lusaka-A, is that correct?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, that's correct.

MR SIBEKO: Do you know exactly what necessitates your application?

NICHOLAS MBUYSELO MAJIKI: Yes, I know.

MR SIBEKO: Would you tell this forum exactly why you apply for this amnesty.
MR MAJIKI
"I'm applying for amnesty because of the following reasons.  I took part and I was involved and I had a role that I was playing as a member of the ANC.  The situation was bad and volatile in our area.  We were being attacked and people were being killed.  In the morning we would wake up to corpses all over.  We would not know who is behind that.
	The role that I played was in such a way that I felt I was highly affected and pushed to be involved in defending the community from all these atrocities.  The situation was so bad and it kept intensifying.  At the time we did not have any way to defend ourselves as the community.
	We would patrol with no weapons or not armed.  We would block the roads using rocks, trying to figure out exactly what was happened but it became apparent that we were being attacked.  As this conflict started between Xhosa and Zulus, it went on to affect us also as civilians in the area.
	I played that role actively and that was the beginning of me getting involved strongly, to an extent that I had to stand up and see what means to employ to defend the community.  We had to barricade all over and we were always vigilant.
	Our neighbouring sections were being attacked and we would hear gunshots all the time.  The following morning when we wake up would learn that a number of people have been killed during the night and we so learnt that we were being attacked by the IFP.
	It so happened that one day during the week, if I'm not mistaken it was Wednesday, it was during the day and we were relaxing and we heard gunshots left, right and centre, especially from the no-go areas which were upper.  
	We saw some comrades approaching.  There were so many in number, comprising of Thambo comrades and Lusaka-B comrades ...(intervention)

MR SIBEKO: Before you proceed, Mr Majiki, you say there were shots coming from the no-go area, which area are you referring to?