Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-12

MR VISSER: Now we've made that distinction, now let's look at page 13.  We've already handled Mr Bhila and it refers to the Port Natal Administration Council at the office in Lamontville and that's the same item which is referred to in Exhibit D?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: There he is not accused in the Ramlakan case - I'm sorry, he is accused in the Ramlakan case as well with regards to DLB's"

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: That is not mentioned specifically in Exhibit A under his name?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: I think that's the best way I can explain this Chairperson, there are certain gaps to that extent.

CHAIRPERSON: Now can we get hold of the indictment?

MR VAN SCHALKWYK: Mr Chairman, if I may be of assistance.  The indictment before you is not the final indictment.  It was amended at a later stage and two further accused were added.  The one you have only refers to ten accused.  Unfortunately, I went to - well I went to the registrar and unfortunately their records is an absolute shambles but eventually the charge sheet ended up by laying against twelve accused various charges as count one terrorism and then a number of separate alternatives in respect of each of the twelve accused.

CHAIRPERSON: You see they were charged together with terrorism?

MR VAN SCHALKWYK: Indeed so.

MR VISSER: I dare say that would probably also appear from the - not that I've seen it before - but it should also appear from the one that's before you now Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: One we have as Exhibit D relates only to the specific counts against Bhila?

MR VISSER: Yes.

MR MALAN: Can I just ask another question please Mr Botha?
Page 13, the two cases we are talking about now, without referring to the record and maybe just to save ourselves some trouble, the two incidents, the Lamontville one, Lamontville Administration Council offices and the restaurant, I assume that some of the other accused were also found guilty on these incidents and that Bhila and Ntwene were acquitted on the basis that there was no evidence that could be brought in against them, the individuals.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: No Chairperson, the only accused for those two incidents respectively and as far as the judgement of Judge ...[indistinct] is concerned ...[intervention]

MR VISSER: No, that's not necessary, let's deal with this now, in the Ramlakan case if you look at page 13, the very first item, there we have Stanley Bhila and he was accused of this Port Natal or Lamontville incident but we know that Bhila was found not guilty?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Now the question which Mr Malan is asking you
is, was this concerned with improper identification or why was he found not guilty?  Was it because of a lack of evidence and what evidence, how did it happen?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: The state witness refused to testify at the very last minute.

MR VISSER: Who was he?

MR MALAN: Lula Melikate.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, we've been given a document.
The heading of that reads Operation Butterfly 1985, it consists of 6 pages.  I believe that's the document to which my learned friend Mr Prior referred to this morning in your chambers when he said that he had given us summaries of the evidence of witnesses.  I believe this is the document.  It may be as well, Mr Chairman, to deal with this on the basis of an exhibit number, I believe the next exhibit is H if I'm not mistaken?

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, I agree.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Why I'm referring to this right now Mr Chairman, is that you will find the name of the person that has just been mentioned by the witness at page - page 2?

MR NGUBANE: It's page 1 under "Internal".

MR VISSER: I'm sorry?

MR NGUBANE: It's on the very first page under "Internal".
...[indistinct] kwaMashu, Umlazi, Lamontville.

MR VISSER: I'm indebted to my learned friend.  It's indeed on the first page under the heading "Internal - Various Units in kwaMashu, Umlazi and Lamontville, Chatworth, Lilamele Khate - Regional Commander.  This is the witness which the witness has just referred to who at the eleventh hour in the Ramlakan case refused to testify which led to the release from all charges of Mr Bhila and Kumezo and incidently also one other person who was acquitted not true?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Who was that?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Sipho Stanley Bhila.

MR VISSER: Yes but except for Bhila and Kumezu, it was also Buthelezi who was acquitted?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes, accused number one, Dudu Zwele Charity Baby Buthelezi.

MR VISSER: Now we are busy talking about page 13.  Mr Malan has just referred you to the restaurant attacked where Pumezo was accused of in the Ramlakan case and we know that he was found not guilty because of reasons you've already indicated to us.  There is also another incident were Pumezo, according to Exhibit A was involved and that was the incident, well not according to Exhibit A but on page 35, there are certain incidents mentioned, is that correct?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Yes that is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And if you go one page back to 34 and we look at the third incident from the top - which I'll ask you to mark in the meantime Mr Chairman - the 5th and the last incident.  Sorry, my attorney points out to me that it's the 4th incident, one of 12 August 1998, 15 August 1998 and 26 August 1998.

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, there in the right you can write down kwaMashu unit, there will be evidence led to that extent at those three incidents that is.
	And then Mr Chairman on page 36 there are two incidents, a second and a third dated 3 November 1988 and 4 November 1998 and there you can also write in kwaMashu unit at those two.
	Mr Chairman, one of the more important ones is also at page 36, the very first one.  That entry there, refers to an explosion at Phoenix, the railway station.  That is exactly where the kwaMashu 3 were killed.

MR MALAN: Where is that, on what page?

CHAIRPERSON: 36.

MR VISSER: Page 36, the first item.  So you can also write in there Mr Chairman, kwaMashu 3, just for purposes of identification.  So these three there and then the previous three which I've referred you to.
	If we can now go back to page 35.  You are now going to give evidence with regards to the integration of Zandile as the intelligence which you gathered from her, is that correct?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: And that information, because we're now busy with this exercise, we'll call that intelligence, that intelligence referred to all the incidents on page 35?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman you can at this stage just make a note of Pumezo for all those incidents at page 35.  The Amanzimtoti bomb is handled on page 18 of Exhibit A, the second item dated 23rd December 1985 and that's the case where Mr Zondo was found guilty and he received the death penalty?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Page 18, 18 Mr Chairman, with regards to Zandile, can you please look at page 22 of Exhibit A.  We are running ahead with the evidence because we are going to come back to this, but whilst we're busy with Exhibit A, we can just finish this.  Please look at the fourth incident dated 31st July 1986.  Who was that person who was killed there?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: Lieutenant Raju of the security branch Durban.

MR VISSER: And can you just tell us how he got killed?

HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA: He was killed by a hand grenade attack on his house in the early morning hours whilst he was sleeping.