Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-21

MR HLONGWANE: : Romeo removed an AK-47 from Mdanda and I removed two 9mm pistols which had fell from these boys.   The other one had a knife, but we left it there.   We took the guns with us.

MR WILLS: : Yes, now I want to turn to the murder of Sargeant Dlamini.   It's at page 166, sorry paragraph 166 page 195.   Again, both Mr Mhambo and Mr Mkhize have given evidence in regard to this murder.   Do you confirm what they said in relation to your involvement?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.

MR WILLS: : In fact what they said is you were the person who actually killed Sargeant Dlamini.   You pulled the trigger that was responsible for the fatal shot.  Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that's correct.

MR WILLS: : Can you just take the issue from there because I know that Sargeant Dlamini's relatives are here today.   Can you tell us what happened from the time you were inside Sargeant Dlamini's house, to the time that you killed him.   Can you tell us what happened?

MR HLONGWANE: : When we arrived at Sargeant Dlamini's house, people who were present was myself, Romeo and Kina, and Stefano. Just the four of us.

MR WILLS: : Sorry Mr Hlongwane, you must listen to my question.   We know who was there, there is no doubt about that.   What I'm simply asking you is not to tell me about the whole incident.   We have heard about that on two occasions.  I'm just asking you to tell me about what happened from the time you were already inside the house, until Sargeant Dlamini was killed.

MR HLONGWANE: : Sargeant Dlamini insulted us for the entire time.  At some point he kept quiet and he moved and we could therefore ascertain his position.   Then we started shooting.   When I got into the house I was in front of Romeo and I arrived at his bedroom first.   When he tried to get out of the room, I pulled the trigger and he fell.   After that we went out of the room and Romeo asked me if I was sure that he had died.  I took ...(indistinct) Mtetwe's 9mm pistol and returned into the house, and I fired another shot.  Thereafter we left.   Kina was not there when Sargeant Dlamini was killed.

MR WILLS: : Yes, now what's this Mtetwe, Temba Nkosi Mtetwe.   Would you regard him as being an active participant in this killing?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes he was involved.

MR WILLS: : I want to turn now to page 197 paragraph 171.   Now this is the murder of the Cosatu Bus Driver by the name of Jali, and this is an incident to which Mr Mkhize has referred.   Mr Mkhize's evidence is to the effect that it was an assassination on the instruction again of Chief Motaba, and that you were involved together with Mkhize and others in this assassination.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is true.

MR WILLS: : And what Mr Mkhize said about this incident, do you confirm?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes, yes.

MR WILLS: : Now we return to Mandini at page 198 and paragraph 173, where there was an incident concerning members of the Majenga family.   Do you recall that incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I do.

MR WILLS: : Now we haven't heard any evidence about this.   The Commission hasn't heard anything about this.   Can you tell us what happened?

MR HLONGWANE: : Amongst the meeting that we held at 13, Majenga's family was regarded as an ANC family, so that if you attacked any person belonging to that house, you would have hit the ANC.   Bongani Hadebe, Shakes Mhlongo and Banza knew about the death of all these people.   I am not the person who killed everybody from the Majenga family.   One of these other people that I have mentioned were also involved in the killing of other members from the Majenga family.

MR WILLS: : Yes, you've indicated that there was one of these boys who you followed one night.   Can you just tell us what happened.  One of the boys from this family?

MR HLONGWANE: : I was from the Silumbele Police Station to pay my friends a visit, Victor Mia and Philake Ngcobo.   Those were also Caprivians.   They knew what was going on at Mandini.   As I was going out through the gate, the boy who was in my company, identified this Majenga boy and this Majenga boy had realised that we were following him, and he took a turn and walked into a house that was near a Police Station;  he came out with a girl and started to look around.   We were hiding somewhere, we were still looking at them.   They wanted to walk through the school and he was approaching us, he was not aware and that is where we hit him.

MR WILLS: : You shot him?  You didn't hit him.   You shot him with a 9mm pistol?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes.   I cannot remember exactly what pistol it was.

MR WILLS: : Do you know if he died as a result of the incident, or not?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes I know.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he die?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes, yes, he died.

MR WILLS: : The next incident that I want to refer to starts at paragraph 177, page 199.   It's an incident whereby you and your cohort Kulani, accidently shot Mr Abraham Mbuyazi and I take that, that is Mrs Mbuyazi's husband.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Now this person was paralysed as a result of this attack.   Is that correct?

MR HLONGWANE: : Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: : Now the only thing that I want you to testify, in regard to this incident, is what did Mrs Mbuyazi say to you when you approached her and told her about this incident?

MR HLONGWANE: : After this accidental shot, we went to Romeo first and we found him in the company of Silas Nteli.   We took him in Silas's car;  we went to the clinic at H and an ambulance was called, and we took him to Richards Bay.   And we proceeded, myself with Romeo, going to Mrs Mbuyazi and reported to her what accident had happened, so that her husband was shot.   We all heard voices where we shot him accidently, and we thought the voices were the voices of the people who were about to attack us;  and Kulani shot him with my Magnum and he fell;  and on explaining this to Mrs Mbuyazi, she requested that we lower our voices.   We indicated that Mr Mbuyazi was now injured, and she wanted to know whether he was dead.   That was the first thing she wanted to know, and we indicated that `no, he was in hospital';  and she said we should not tell anybody.   That would be something we had to keep between ourselves.

CHAIRPERSON: Please be quiet.

MR HLONGWANE: : The following day, we went to the hospital and on arrival Mbuyazi said:  `...(indistinct) I heard your voice, but I know that it was a mistake.   My boy I forgive you.'   I was in the company of Romeo and he said:  `I forgive you,' and he shook my hand.

MR WILLS: : Yes, why do you think - why was it that Mrs Mbuyazi said that you shouldn't report this to anybody and you should keep quiet about it.   Do you know why she said that? Sorry, I'm wanting to know why Mrs Mbuyazi asked you to keep this incident quiet.   Do you know the reason for that or not?

MR HLONGWANE: : As a person with a very cold heart, as a woman who had a cold heart I then would say what exactly she said. But I remember that she indicated that this should be kept between ourselves.

MR WILLS: Okay Mr Hlongwane I want to refer you to paragraph 180 on page 200. Now this concerns some home-made pipe bombs.

MR HLONGWANE: I remember that. I know that.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us about these pipe bombs and what you did with them and who gave them to you?

MR HLONGWANE: They were given to us by Mr Pipi Biyela saying we should use the bombs to attack ANC houses. We had to attack all places where there were ANC members because there is a woman who used to drive a car called Thanduxulo and she is the who would go around identifying the places that we had to attack.

MR WILLS: Was this in eSikiweni?

MR HLONGWANE: Yes it was eSikiweni.

MR WILLS: And did you in fact use these bombs?