Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-16

MR BOTMA: In those circumstances can you then explain to this Commission why did you then decide in spite of all these to change your plea on 19 July 1994?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Let me give you the reasons first of all why I hid information. In my statement I had before the case to protect certain forces that were based in the Transkei and also to protect Transkei in a sense. Now divulging later was because it was clear that what was going to happen, we then decided to come out. It was clear politically which side things were taking. It was clear as to which direction things were taking. They were encouraging the army to be integrated. We did not have an alternative except to reveal the truth. That is all.

MR BOTMA: I am trying to reconcile all the statements you have made now. The first plea was given during March 1994, that was before the elections and at that stage you wanted to cover for your fellow APLA members, is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes we were not part of the elections. Everything I have done, I did it to protect the army. Therefore I agree with you, I was protecting the army.

MR BOTMA: Now subsequent to that the elections took place of which if I recall correctly the PAC also took part in and then on 19 July 1994 almost 2 months after the election, you then decided to change your plea and to take the Court and to tell the Court what happened exactly there. Is that correct?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: So at that stage, on 19 July 1994 you then regard the Court as being a competent Court because it formed now part or let me put it this way the new government is already into operation and did you then take or believe in this Court as being a genuine Court?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: It was the same to me. I made a contribution. This is why we had elections. I also gave my own contribution. I could no cooperate with the Court because it recognised me or it saw me as a murderer whilst I claimed that I am a freedom fighter. They do not recognise me as a freedom fighter. According to the Court I was a criminal. That is totally, I am not a criminal. That is different from what I define myself as. I am a soldier guided by politics. The Court labelled me on my forehead as a criminal. I could not cooperate with people who saw me as a criminal, as a common hooligan. I could not cooperate with the Court therefore.

MR BOTMA: What was then the reason for changing your plea if you regarded the Court as such?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: To rectify this. I had to inform the people that had given me mandate to do the operation. I had to say who I was involved with. The reason for having changed my plea was because it was clear which direction things were taking in the country. Even though I was not satisfied because I was in jail at the time. Secondly I believe what I did was part of South African history. For the next generation to understand history they have to know who was involved and who took part. I am tired of talking now.

CHAIRPERSON: If that is your attitude do you want to withdraw your application at this stage? Otherwise you will continue please to behave properly and to answer questions that are put to you.

MR BOTMA: I am still referring to the record.

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Now I am still waiting for your question Sir?

MR BOTMA: Do you want to continue with your application?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes Sir.

MR BOTMA: Now on the record page 63 your counsel stated there that, I am referring to line 27 of page 63. "And they consulted with higher authority." Now is it correct? Did you consult with higher authority before you changed your plea?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Correct.

MR BOTMA: And during the consultation with higher authority did you take up the question of Mike Meyers being a member of the AWB?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: They knew already.

MR BOTMA: Any reason for not divulging that fact that you regarded or that you saw Mike Meyers as a member of AWB during the trial?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Please repeat your question Sir?

MR BOTMA: Any reason for not divulging the fact that you regarded Meyers as a member of the AWB during the trial at that point?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Yes that is the reason.

MR BOTMA: What is the reason? Can you please state it to the Committee?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: First of all as APLA was based in the Transkei we did not want to divulge this information in court because then we thought the South African government would retaliate in a bad way against the Transkei causing raids. Secondly we were protecting the Transkein government as they had accommodated us. We did not want to spoil our relationship with the Transkein government. We were also protecting the APLA bases in the Transkei. That is my explanation.

MR BOTMA: I am referring to the period that is 19 July 1994 and you using terms like Transkei as African government. By then there was no Transkei, no South African government. It was a government all over for the whole territory. Transkei was just a region inside the territory. And furthermore are you saying that there were still APLA bases at that time 19 July 1994 in the former Transkei?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Please repeat your question? I am just missing   it somewhere.

ADV SANDI: Can you assist Mr Botma?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Mr Kulman the question to you is as follows. I will try and simplify it. On the 19th July 1994 when your lawyer informed the Court that you had changed your plea because of the political changes that have taken place in the country, did APLA still have bases in the Transkei at that time?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: No some of them were already integrated. There were no APLA bases at that time. I was in jail at that time but I do not think there were any bases left.

MR BOTMA: So who were you trying to cover for then at that point in time? I am talking about specifically 19 July 1994?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Concerning what? Please explain yourself?

CHAIRPERSON: You have said that you did not mention the fact that Mr Meyers was a member of the AWB because APLA was based in the Transkei and you did not want to divulge this to the Court because it might cause the South African government to respond against the Transkei. You wanted to safe guard APLA bases in the Transkei. That is the explanation you gave for not mentioning the fact. You have now just told us that by July 1994 there were no APLA bases in the Transkei. There was no reason to protect them, they were not there. There was also as you have been told no Transkei any more. South Africa was one country. So can you advance any other reason why you did not disclose the truth or what you now say is the truth to the Court?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: Since I have already stated that first of all I did not recognise the Court at the time. I was arrested in 1993, I was not in touch as such with outside activities. I cannot say whether there were bases or not really. It is difficult. Everybody in this room knows there was confusion between PAC and APLA. Some people within the PAC were saying we should vote, other groups said that we should not vote. Some of us wanted to continue with the Arms Struggle. The other group agreed to integrate. Therefore I cannot say whether there were bases or not.

CHAIRPERSON: Well a few minutes ago you did say there were no bases in the Transkei. Now that it becomes difficult for you to explain you change your evidence. Do you remember telling us in a very short space, a very short time ago that there were no APLA bases in the Transkei in July 1994?

LUVUYO KENNETH KULMAN: I was in jail (...intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: The question was do you remember telling us that a few minutes ago? You have no answer that is it?