Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-07

MR MACADAM: 2B my children or without them, although I now came to realise that it's possible as I am in prison now.  So I refused - vehemently refused that I should go for hiding and we agreed that we should make an alibi, so that when the police come to investigate I will be able to deceive them, because Captain Langeni told me that at that time they were looking for me in connection with the murder of Nathi Gumede.  I remembered that the alibi that we created we agreed that I would say that the Opel Monza which we used to go and fetch Nathi, to kill him, was borrowed to me by Nyawose, which was a State car and they said that I should agree that I borrowed it from my friend, and now the question was what was I going to do in Durban if my jurisdiction was Empangeni.  I said I have two children in Durban.  I could say I was going to visit my children.  They said, "However, but they will need the reason why were you visiting your children".  One of them said I should say that one of my children was ill and I got a call that I should rush to the place and I didn't have transport and we agreed on that point, and we created so many strategies to do a cover-up when the police arrived to investigate.  We built a concrete alibi and I was also confident that it was going to work.  However, I didn't fully picture the success of it.  Captain Langeni then said we should together with Madlanduna go to Lindelani to a man by the name of Tshabalala, who was known as a, "Muti" man.  We remembered that he got acquitted in a case where it was said he killed seven children and Langeni told me about this case and he said we should get some, "Muti" from Mr Tshabalala, and he said he's on good terms with Tshabalala and he won't refuse to give us the,

MR MACADAM: /"Muti".  The

MR MACADAM: 2B "Muti".  The following morning - it was on Saturday - I myself, with Madlanduna, drove to Lindelani, look for Tshabalala to give us the, "Muti", because Captain Langeni told us that he will talk to him on the phone and we will just get to his place.  We got to Lindelani and his wife told us that we left him at Nongoma.  He was not at home and we passed through Hammarsdale.  From Hammarsdale we left in the evening and we went to Pietermaritzburg and we came back late that night and we drove back to Ulundi.  We reported to Captain Langeni that we failed to get to Tshabalala or find Tshabalala.  Langeni promised that he would trace him.  After that there had been some cases at Esikhaweni where firearms were found at Mrs Mbuyazi and we have to come to Durban during a week-end with Mrs Mbuyazi and we have to go back to Ulundi.

MR MACADAM: We are sitting very long - yes, no, I thought the witness was going to finish with arrest, and I expected to finish at about 1.15.  If we could take the adjournment.  The evidence is longer than I anticipated.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairman, could I suggest that Mr Macadam lead the witness to cut to the chase.  We've got long stories about, "Muti" and things like that, but I gather the evidence is going to say that certain persons helped him evade arrest and things like that.  Perhaps we could cut to the chase after the adjournment.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn till 2.15.
LONG ADJOURNMENT
/
ON RESUMPTION
2B
ON RESUMPTION

BRIAN GCINA MKHIZE: (Still under former oath)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Macadam is just going to help you complete your evidence now.

MR MACADAM: Mr Mkhize, is it correct that despite these attempts to evade arrest and conviction, you were nevertheless arrested, taken into custody, tried, convicted and sentenced for certain of your hit squad's activities?

WITNESS:   Since I ended up trying to create an alibi, I later got arrested because I decided to hand myself to the police.  I went back to Nqutu and I waited for them.  They came and they arrested me and they brought me back to Empangeni, where the trial continued.

MR MACADAM: I have no further questions, Mr Chairperson.

MR MACADAM: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR MACADAM

MR MACADAM: MR   (?)   : I have just one clarifying question to ask.  I heard you in the beginning say that your participation in these activities was not a voluntary one.  Is that what you said?

WITNESS:   I was trying to explain that I didn't on my own decide to kill people at Esikhaweni.  I'm saying this because of what I've said before, that Madlanduna came to me, telling me that I am wanted at Ulundi.

MR MACADAM: In other words, you participated willingly and volition and because of your loyalty to IFP?  You were not at any time under pressure to participate from your superiors?

WITNESS:   I would say this in two ways, as I have explained before.  What could happen to a person who is given full information, a person who has been informed about the hit squad's activities or clandestine activities as we call them, as to what will happen to that particular person if he doesn't respond positively, as an ordinary

MR MACADAM: /person I had the

MR MACADAM: 2B person I had the very same fear.

MR MACADAM: Thank you, I just wanted to clarify your volition in this matter.  Thanks.

CHAIRPERSON: There will now be an opportunity for counsel to put questions to Mr Mkhize.  I understand that amongst you you have decided who should be proceed first.

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, yes, I was busy last - I only have a few questions.  Perhaps I should just go ahead with your permission.

MR WILLS: Sorry, Mr Chairman, before the cross-examination starts, there is just one area that ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Wills, I meant to refer the matter to you first.  If there's anything that you want to clarify.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  The one area I just want to ask on is, Mr Mkhize, if, after you had commenced in these operations, these covert killing operations, you had decided that you had had enough and you wanted to leave, would you have been free to do so?

WITNESS:   Can I respond?  No, it wasn't going to be possible, because I would be putting my life into danger.  I don't think I was going to leave with the much knowledge that I have, taking into consideration that many people have been killed and there were also cases which had been opened and people were to be arrested.  Therefore I don't think that I was going to be able to continue with my life as I wished.  Even if I had a wish to leave, that wasn't easy because of the reason I have just given.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  No further questions.

MR WILLS: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS

MR WILLS: /

MR WILLS: CHAIRMAN

MR WILLS: 2B

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Wills.  Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Mkhize, I am not going to deal with the conflicts which arise from your evidence itself.  I'm just going to ask you a few short questions.  Is it correct that when you talk about changing your identity or taking an alias or being hidden, as you put it, it was to hide from the South African Police, not the KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   I was running away from arrest.  Whether we had to be arrested by security guards or whoever, an arrest is just an arrest.

MR VISSER: [Break in recording] ... strikes me as strange.   I had better repeat that.  I want to put something to you that strikes me as strange.  We were given to understand during these hearings that the Caprivi trainees went to be trained and that at least a part of them were trained as an offensive group and that having a special meaning, namely to be hit squads.  Do you follow that?

WITNESS:   I did not hear the question.  The interpreter started the question in the middle.  Could you please repeat the question?

MR VISSER: Thank you.  I will repeat the question.  The perception has been given during the hearing of this committee that the Caprivi trainees, or at least a part of them, were trained as an offensive element, namely to operate as hit squads.  Did you hear that evidence?