Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-23

MR BRACHER: But why not there if you wanted to attack overseas tourists?  Most overseas tourists don't go and park underground.

CHAIRPERSON: He's not saying he wanted to attack overseas -he wanted to discourage tourists.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Chairperson, that specific bomb as far as I know was not aimed at killing people.  That specific area - when the bomb exploded, there weren't people there, there were no people around.  Inside the building there were people, yes, but the important thing here according to me is that maybe who wanted to cause damage to the building and to focus the media's attention to it and that foreign tourists would be discouraged from coming into the country.

MR BRACHER: There were people injured, weren't there?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: If I remember correctly, I think two people.

MR BRACHER: Eighteen.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Eighteen?  I don't know about that Chairperson.  It might be the case.

MR BRACHER: Those were also innocent civilians, you weren't targeting any particular state personnel?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: No, Chairperson, they were innocent people I agree.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.  Now you're saying that this bomb at Jan Smuts was not intended to kill people, yes?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct, Chairperson.

ADV GCABASHE: Now, I have understood the evidence generally to be that the idea was to create chaos before the election and as part of that chaos, people had to be killed?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That's correct.

ADV GCABASHE: Who changed this instruction, who said people should not be killed?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Me personally, placed that bomb in such a way.  I had two options, I could either plant the bomb on the middle level next to a tour bus and this bus was full of people or I could have taken the left exit and I could have placed the bomb on top of that where there were no people who were standing around outside and I took the second option to go and place it above the other level.  That's where I took the decision not to kill the people in the tour bus.

ADV GCABASHE: Now the question is, were you authorised to change that targeting because as I've understood it, people had to be killed.  This was part of the impact of your struggle.  Were you authorised in those circumstances to choose one level and not the other and if so who authorised you to do that in those circumstances?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I was not specifically told by Clifton Barnard that people had to die therefore I took the decision on my own and I thought that if the bomb explodes and the building is damaged then that would create enough publicity for us, Chairperson.

ADV GCABASHE: Now did you discuss this with Mr le Roux?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I did not.

ADV GCABASHE: Because if my memory serves me well, Mr le Roux told us that there was a specific instruction that foreigners should not be killed?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I cannot remember that.

ADV GCABASHE: You know nothing at all about that?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I cannot remember it.  I cannot remember that I was told that, Chairperson.

ADV GCABASHE: You see this still doesn't clear up for me when you could use your own discretion and when you had to follow orders strictly, you know considering your last answer the last time I asked you about when you could use your head and when not.  This is a reversal of what you said earlier.  Here you used your head and put it in a non-lethal sense, not so risky area whereas with the others you didn't seem to have this discretion.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: At none of the other explosions did I have that discretion.  The bomb missions on which I went the first time was to Germiston and there the decision was taken by someone, by Etienne le Roux and this bomb mission to Jan Smuts which the first mission I was on or which I led and therefore Le Roux indicated to me that I must follow that road and physically we did go to the building and I executed the instruction which I had to.

ADV GCABASHE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Have you got many more questions?

MR BRACHER: I've got about three more.
	Now this bomb at the airport had nothing to do with stopping the election?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I think in a way it did have to do with the election.  There were several observers from abroad who had to come through the airport but the reason I was given was to discourage foreigners from entering the country.

MR BRACHER: The election was just about begun by then?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: What day was the Jan Smuts bomb - was it the Wednesday?

MR BRACHER: It was the day of the election.

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The same day?   In a sense, in a way it could have served as a way maybe stopping the elections but I don't think it would have done that.

MR BRACHER: What was the purpose in relation to your aims and motivation, what did you have to achieve for your motivations by this bomb?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: By planting this bomb, I thought that we could gain publicity for our Volkstaat idea.

MR BRACHER: Killing and causing damage does that give you the publicity you want?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Chairperson, the strife for a Volkstaat is something that's come a very long way, a long time and it always fell on deaf ears and I'd say that these bomb explosions was a desperate attempt from our side to focus attention on our political strife.

MR BRACHER: You see you're the second witness who has used the word desperate.  I'm putting to you that what happened at the end here, you'd failed and you were just letting off bombs in some desperate show of force by your little splinter group as an ultimate frustration of a totally failed plan or your whole organisation had disbanded just about?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: In a way it's correct - we did feel that the Volksfront and the National Party and even the AWB left us in the lurch.

CHAIRPERSON: Let's ask the question in a different fashion.  At that time several arrests were being made.  Your war was finished and as things looked, there was no chance of stopping the election, because it was already in progress, why did you then plant a bomb at the airport?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: The airport bomb was the last bomb before the  people were arrested at the shooting range.

CHAIRPERSON: Beforehand?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That morning we left the shooting range with the car bomb and I do not know specifically when the police arrested the people at the shooting range but I thought it was before we planted the bomb.  That's when they got arrested.

MR BRACHER: When the pipe bombs were sent out, you were the Commandant of Operations for that operation?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct?

MR BRACHER: That is the first time you've been a Commandant of Operations for a pipe bomb operation?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.

MR BRACHER: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BRACHER

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, just a few questions.
	Mr Du Plessis, did you know that during January 1994 in the State Gazette it was announced that the establishment of a Volkstaat Council in order to discuss the idea of this Volkstaat at a very high level.  In other words, the proposition was that there would be 20 members, that the people would be in parliament and that the people there who supported this idea in parliament would be included in this council?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: I was aware that there was a Volkstaat Council in order to investigate the idea of a Volkstaat and I think it was presented in parliament.

UNKNOWN: That information, did that get to you or did you receive that information?

JOHAN WILHELM DU PLESSIS: Yes, I knew that they did establish such a council.

UNKNOWN: And what was the reaction of the AWB towards this suggestion in the State Gazette?