Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

CHAIRPERSON: Good morning.  Yesterday we concluded the proceedings with Mr Khumalo putting questions to the witness and there was an indication earlier that a member from the Mabika family would be wanting to put questions.  Is there somebody to present to that?

MR NGUBANE: That's Mr Mabika.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngubane.  Mr Mabika could you please give your full names?

MR MABIKA: Linda Mabika (sworn states)

MR MKHIZE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mabika what is your relationship to the deceased Mr Mabika?

MR MABIKA: He was my older brother.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you may put questions to the witness.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, if I may come in here, I had a short consultation with the current witness and we have agreed that I will lead him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mpshe, I appreciate that.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And further on Mr Chairman, what I want to put to request from this Committee is that he is a bit on the emotional side, there may be a stage where he breaks, I'll ask the Committee and the other parties to be sensitive to his position.  Thank you sir.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Mabika on the day of the incident in November 1993, were you present?  Were you in the company of the deceased you brother?

MR MABIKA: Yes that is so.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: ...[inaudible] the deceased and yourself was present?

MR MABIKA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: I think just repeat the question Mr Mpshe.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now my last question to you was besides yourself, the deceased - your brother, Mr Mabika and the deceased Sergeant Khumalo, who else was present on the scene?

MR MABIKA: It was myself, my brother and my child.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now in what position in relation to the motor vehicle driven by Sergeant Dlamini were you standing?

MR MABIKA: We were standing at the gate next to the car, because we were waiting for the gate to be opened.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were you both at the gate?

MR MABIKA: Yes I had just parked a government car nearby.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And what did you see there?

MR MABIKA: When I parked the car, there approached one car and it stopped and one person got off and went into Msemela's house but I didn't take much notice of this person and we parked the car and then we went to the gate and spoke to my brother who was at that time parked in front of the gate.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Were you both - were both and I'm referring to yourself and your brother the deceased, were you both standing on the same side talking to Sergeant Dlamini.

MR MABIKA: Yes we were standing on the same side and I was holding onto a mirror.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And whilst they're talking what happened?

MR MABIKA: I heard a shot and we fell on the ground I think the shots rang out for about five times.  After that I got up - when I tried to wake my brother up then I discovered there was blood on him and I also when approaching Sergeant Khumalo and tried to wake him and I also discovered that he was also dead.  After that I tried to wake up my, eventually she did wake up.  I rushed into the house and told my wife and my brother's wife and then I went to the Khumalos and woke them up and told them about the incident.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Did your child get injured in the process?

MR MABIKA: No the child was not injured.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And yourself?

MR MABIKA: No I wasn't injured myself.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Will it be correct to say then the police were called and they were on the scene?

MR MABIKA: Yes the police were called and after a while they arrived.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And did what they normally do on such occasions?

MR MABIKA: Yes, what I asked from them is how come they knew about this because Khumalo usually arrived early and on this particular day when he had arrived late, something like this happened.  Then they did not respond when I alleged that they knew about this incident.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was your brother, the deceased, involved in political activities?

MR MABIKA: No, he was from Gezini and he had just come by my house, passing to see me.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was a member of any particular party there?

MR MABIKA: No, he was a member at Gezini but not in this particular area.  He was on his way to Kosasabanta.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Are you a member of any political party yourself?

MR MABIKA: No I am not.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Was your brother active in politics?

MR MABIKA: No he was not.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Now I want you to tell this Honourable Committee as to how you feel about the incident particularly wherein your brother was killed.

MR MABIKA: I am very worried and concerned about my brother's death.  This has disintegrated the family - nobody trusts me within the family because my brother, on that day, had come to see me so I am not trustworthy, even my wife has left me.  What I would like to know from the perpetrators is why they committed this act because we are at this very moment confused, we don't know what happened about my brother.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Is there any other thing you want this Committee to take note of?

MR MABIKA: What I would like to ask is if the Truth Commission can help me in the perpetrators and the families making contact so that there can be peace within the family.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Is there any way or do you have information as to how perhaps your brother's wife and the child may be traced?

MR MABIKA: It is difficult to trace my brother's wife but the child is at school at Richards Bay but there isn't much as I can say about her because at the time she was just six.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: And who is taking care of the child?

MR MABIKA: I think the mother takes care of my brother's child.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: You have indicated that you have questions that you want to put to the applicant.  I going to request the Committee to give you that chance and you put the questions directly to the applicant.  Do you still want to put the questions to him?

MR MABIKA: Yes that is so.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes proceed and put any questions to the witness.

MR MABIKA: What I would like to know from Mr Mkhize is why did they shoot because they had also seen that we were also in the vicinity?