Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-04

MS MKHIZE: Mr Hlongwa, maybe I could help you.  We thank you.  We listened to your story and we could have enough time to ask you questions.  We realise that you have taken a long time trying to explain what happened to you, which actually were things not nice to you.
 One of the things which you mentioned earlier, you said you were the Minister of religion and you are a prophet at the same time when this thing happened.  Can you explain to us how were you doing, what type of ministry were you involved in?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I would say amongst the community I was a Minister of Apostolic Church.  It is St Joseph Apostolic Church.

MS MKHIZE: If you say they say you are the minister of comrades, can you perhaps tell us exactly what you did for the comrades during that time, which perhaps labelled you as a minister of comrades?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: What I can say there was another boy who was actually a member of my church, Jambulan Nduli my name. He was in my congregation.  He was my member in the - he was
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actually shot by the policeman. He was shot by a police. There was actually a team from Middelburg coming for a soccer play.  Then there was trouble between the two teams.  As a person from that area and some of the comrades they went out to go and call other comrades. Anyone who was just a boy they were collecting them.  They were going house to house, going, taking boys and then they went to a place where there was a policeman actually renting a house, a room.  They came in there in a very unwelcome manner.  Yet the boy in that house was just standing looking through the window.  He had a gun. He did not ask, he simply released the gun and shot him. Now I happened to lead the funeral of that boy.  That's where the comrades had the courage on me. In other words, if they say you are the minister for comrades, it is just because you gave assistance during the funeral of that comrade.

MS MKHIZE: The other thing which I would like to know is that you mentioned that earlier in fact, in your statement you said that the way you were tortured, more especially in your body, you said it is not very easy that you could hear, because you were actually damaged.  There are certain parts in your body that was somehow affected.  Can you tell us the way you were beaten?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I don't understand the question clearly.

MS MKHIZE: You said earlier on you are not audible enough because of the way you were beaten. Can you tell us maybe in your parts of your body, maybe somewhere you are affected through that beating, in short.

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: The way I am speaking is not actually the normal way or my normal way of speaking. I was not born like this.  This was actually an affection which I got after I
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was beaten.  My ear was actually affected when I was beaten by the police.

MS MKHIZE: The other thing which you mentioned, you said you urinated the blood and your ears were affected, but you never went to the hospital.  Did you really ask maybe to be seen by the doctor?  Did you explain to the doctor what happened to you, the way you were beaten and you need a doctor.

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: Yes, I did explain this. I explained but it did not take care.

MS MKHIZE: I will ask the chairperson in order to allow my colleagues to ask questions in order to clarify some of the issues.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Mkhize.  Mr Malan?

MR MALAN: Mr Hlongwa, can you tell me how old you are now?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I am 42 years old.

MR MALAN: Which means at the time of the incident you were about 32 years old.  Can you further tell us, in your statement, and I am not sure but it is a little confusing in paragraph 7.  You say when you went to court all the kids who were burning Mr Dlamini's house were there. You say we were 10 and all of them were free, I remained alone.  Did the others burn the house?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: Well, I don't know anything.  As I have said earlier on here, I was not there, I don't know.  I don't know who burnt the house.

MR MALAN: That's really the question I want to get to.   That seems a bit confusing, because in your statement you say the others that were accused that went free, they burnt the house, the other kids.  That is also, if you were the people's pastor, and you had no idea and no knowledge as to
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who burnt the car or the house, do you have no idea as to what the circumstances were that led up to your arrest and eventual imprisonment?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I can't remember anything, I don't know anything as far as that is concerned. Since this thing started, as I have already indicated to you, that I was the minister of the whole congregation in Mashesheng, not for the comrades only.

MR MALAN: Yes.  No, I was just, I mean, in my community usually the minister knows most, because everybody confesses and speaks to the minister.  Can you just tell me, reply to one other question.  This sergeant that pursued you and beat you and tortured you, Dlamini, is that the same sergeant whose house was burnt down?  The same Dlamini?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: Yes, that is the same Dlamini.

MR MALAN: The person whose house was burnt down was also the investigating officer.  Is that correct?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: Yes, he was an investigating officer.

MR MALAN: And where in Mashesheng did this take place?  Where did you live at the time, where did this happen?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I was living in the township at Mashesheng.

MR MALAN: Okay.  Thank you very much. I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwa, I would just like to ask you, how many years of the prison sentence did you actually serve?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: I was sentenced for 12 years, six months.

CHAIRPERSON: Were there any other people who were sentenced with you for that crime?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: No, we were only two.  There is only one.

CHAIRPERSON: And this was for the burning of the house or for the burning of the car?
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SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: No, they combined both crimes.

CHAIRPERSON: What is the name of the other person who was sentenced with you?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: It is Mandla Kumani.  He is no longer alive, he died.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he die whilst he was in prison?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: No, he died after he was released.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you ever, whilst you were in prison, discover who was actually responsible for the burning of the house, was it Mandla?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: As I have said, as I have discovered, he told me that who is the person responsible.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he deny that it was himself?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: He said to me he has agreed, he knows.  He said to me while we were travelling in the van.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwa, what is it that you want the Commission to do?

SHADRACK THANSANQA HLONGWA: As I am here, I am not working, I have got children to look after. I have got my mother here.  There is nothing that I am doing.  I do get a small pension of some kind, but it is not, I am carrying a lot of responsibility.  The Commission, can't they sort of do something for me?  By way that I should, you see the doctors, consult the doctors,  because since I got injured I never consulted a doctor. The police refused. Now I am requesting that this thing actually affected me. I can't sit for a long time.  I do also, I have got children and I can no longer produce children.