Human Rights Violation Hearings — Bisho — 1996-09-11

CHAIRPERSON: [Indistinct]  very, very much.  We are enormously grateful for you helping us through this whole maze and we hope we can begin to make a little bit of sense about the frustrations and why things have not happened.  I just wonder whether any of my colleagues have - you haven't, thank you very much you are sensible people.  
 Thank you very, very much.  We are enormously grateful and hope, now, you have not retired, I mean you are still active I mean, aren't you?

ATTORNEY GEN W JURGENS: I am in private practice now, Your Grace.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes okay, well good luck.

ATTORNEY GEN W JURGENS: Thank you sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairman, I now call upon the following witnesses who are  Freddie Tutani, Alfred Dayile, Andile Ndembu, Livingstone Klaas, Nkululeko Eric Qobongoshe.  Mr Chairman, I would like to swear them in.

REV XUNDU: Our first witness is going to be Freddie.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 2

FREDDIE TUTANI: FREDDIE TUTANI   Duly sworn states

REV XUNDU: Is this your first name?  What is your clan name?

WITNESS:  My name is Freddie Tutani.

REV XUNDU:  It was on the 7th September when you joined the march to the stadium, is that so?  Could you briefly tell us what happened to you and how you sustained some injuries on that day.

WITNESS:  We went to the Bisho stadium but on my way, just before I got into the stadium I heard some gunshots and I saw people running away.  I also did the same.

REV XUNDU:  Where were you hit by the bullet?

WITNESS:  I was hit on the chest and I fell down.  As I was laying there, I was again shot just between the legs and there was a tear.

REV XUNDU:  Were you torn here on the testicles and your private parts?

WITNESS:  Yes I was.  I lay there.

REV XUNDU:  What took you to hospital?

WITNESS:  Some people took me to hospital.

REV XUNDU:  And what happened to you at the hospital?

WITNESS:  I was admitted at the Gray hospital and later transferred to the Frere hospital.

REV XUNDU:  Was it for three months?

WITNESS:  Yes.

REV XUNDU:  And then when you were discharged from Frere hospital you were still not well.  Are you working?

WITNESS:  No I'm not.

REV XUNDU:  You lost your job since that time?

WITNESS:  Yes, I couldn't work.  I was fired.  I can't even work, I don't have the strength.

REV XUNDU:  What is your other complaint, you even say you don't breathe, you can't even have sexual intercourse.  What can this Commission help you with?

WITNESS:  I am asking for money because there is nothing I can do on my own.

REV XUNDU:  You are asking for a disability grant or what?

WITNESS:  Yes I need that.

REV XUNDU:  Were you not amongst the people who went to see the lawyers and got some compensation?

WITNESS:  No I wasn't one of them.

REV XUNDU:  Now don't you feel that the Commission should also see that something is done for your health?

WITNESS:  Yes I wish they could attend to my health.  I don't have anything.  I go to my neighbours to ask for food.

REV XUNDU:  Do you have a wife and children?

WITNESS:  No I don't have a wife.  I am left with two children.

REV XUNDU: Thank you, over to you Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any other questions?

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 8

REV XUNDU: I would like to ask Alfred Dayile to come forward.
ALFRED DAYILE   Duly sworn states

REV XUNDU: What is your clan name?

WITNESS:  My clan name is Gadebe.

REV XUNDU:  We are not trying to be unfair to you, we know this whole story but we just want to know how you got injured.

WITNESS:  When we got to Bisho stadium, it was after we had come in and then there was shooting and I lay down.  I was shot on my left leg and went to hospital.  Thereafter I admitted in Frere hospital for 14 days, I was there.

REV XUNDU:  Are you married?

WITNESS:  Yes I am.

REV XUNDU:  Do you have children?

WITNESS:  Yes I have.

REV XUNDU:  At the time this happened to you, were you employed?

WITNESS:  Yes I was.  I am still working even at this moment.

REV XUNDU:  Is there any compensation you got from the lawyers?

WITNESS:  Yes I did.

REV XUNDU:  How much did you get?

WITNESS:  I got 12,000 compensation.

REV XUNDU:  Which lawyers were those?

WITNESS:  The lawyer Clive.

REV XUNDU:  Does he work at the Legal Source Centre?

WITNESS:  Yes he works there.

REV XUNDU:  Now what is your request to this Commission?

WITNESS:  My leg gets swollen.  I work at a motor industry and I've got to stand for the whole day.  I think I need a plastic surgery to be done on my leg.

REV XUNDU:  Now is that your request to this Commission?

WITNESS:  Yes.

REV XUNDU:  Or is there any other thing that you would like to say to this Commission?

WITNESS:  There is.  That they should pay for my child's studies.

REV XUNDU:  Now you've also, you still maintain that there should be an education trust that should be established.

WITNESS:  Yes I still say that.

REV XUNDU:  Is there any other request?

WITNESS:  No.

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anyone who would like to ask questions?  Thank you.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 11

REV XUNDU: Andile please come close to the mike.
ANDILE NDEMBU   Duly sworn states

REV XUNDU: What is your clan name?

WITNESS:  [Indistinct]

REV XUNDU:  This Bisho story on the 7th September has been repeated time and time again.  We do not want to lower your dignity so we will request that you get straight to the point what exactly happened to you and how you were wounded.

WITNESS:  We were already inside the stadium.  I was a marshal at the time.  There was comrade Chris Hani who was just ahead of us with Steve Tshwete.  When we were standing there, when we saw that there is unrest, we kept on trying to direct the people.  We saw people going towards the stadium.  When they got to the stadium, a helicopter went up.  This helicopter was from the Republic of South Africa.  When this helicopter arose there were shootings after it had risen.  We were ahead of most of the crowd.  That is how I was shot.

REV XUNDU:  Where were you shot?

WITNESS:  I was shot on my right-leg.

REV XUNDU:  You were then taken to hospital.

WITNESS:  Yes.

REV XUNDU:  Was the bullet removed?

WITNESS:  No it wasn't.  They said that they could not remove it because then I'd be paralysed.

REV XUNDU:  Did you go to the attorneys?

WITNESS:  No I did not.

REV XUNDU:  When you were a student?

WITNESS:  No I was not a student.

REV XUNDU:  Are you working?

WITNESS:  No I'm not.

REV XUNDU:  You do not have any particular skill that you can use?

WITNESS:  No I do not.

REV XUNDU:  What is your request to the Commission?

WITNESS:  My request is that because I have a wife and children, three children, when they went to look for me and found me, what they heard, the report that they were given was that I had died.  Then they saw me coming home from the hospital, the Gray hospital.  My request to the Commission is that it help me with my children because I no longer have strength to work.

REV XUNDU: Thank you sir, I'll take you back to the Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is there anybody who would like to ask questions?  Thank you sir.

TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION: BISHO MASSACRE - DAY 3 - 11 SEPTEMBER 1996

CASE NO: 14

LIVINGSTONE KLAAS: LIVINGSTONE KLAAS   Duly sworn states

REV XUNDU: Livingstone Klaas what is your clan name?

WITNESS:  Mboyov Chungesa Zulu.

REV XUNDU:  Sir, it is not necessary for you to elaborate what happened, how the march proceeded.  What exactly happened at the stadium to you in particular?