Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-21

MR MALAN: And you said you then started thinking that that morning, the people who were involved in his apprehension, that weren't with you at that stage, what were you talking about?  Will you then just tell me what you said there?  What did you start thinking, as he was walking away, this person?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: I started thinking about his beating, because I knew that his group would not accept his condition and they would be infuriated also by the fact that he did not succeed in the mission for which he was instructed, they would come back and launch an attack and this would result in the death of many people and I realised that these people who were releasing him, did not think clearly.

CHAIRPERSON: I think just to probably clear the air in regard to my colleague's problem, it's the choice of words you used, you referred to the fact that after this person had been released, the thought of those who were not there when he was apprehended but I think you were referring to the people at Shayamoya who had not been there when he was apprehended and you were not referring to any other person in your group who had not been there when this person was apprehended, is that correct?  That's how I understood your evidence.

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: I was referring to my group.  I am sorry that I did not clarify this as well.  I was referring to the Shayamoya people, or my own people.  Please bear with me on that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I want again to be satisfied.  The same group that initially apprehended this person when he was armed, was the same group that participated in his assault or torture, when he was now at Moses Dlamini's house, it was the same group, the group never changed?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No, the group never changed because some had been at work.

CHAIRPERSON: No don't tell about any person who had not been party to the initial apprehension and ultimately to the beating, at least up to the time when you have just given us your evidence.  So it was the same group, the group did not change?  It was the group that you've counted that included people like Sepo, it was the same group that consisted of Moses Dlamini, Basil Ngwenye, Sepo Nduli, Mfanafuti Michael Khumalo and yourself, the group was like that?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes.

MR MALAN: And none of those people went to work, they stayed all through?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, there were some people.

CHAIRPERSON: These are the only people who were present when he was beaten up and at the time when he was released and at the time when you thought that releasing him would be endangering you?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Mfanafuti wasn't an accused with you?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No, he was not arrested because he disappeared after that.

ADV DE JAGER: So I just wanted to make sure.

CHAIRPERSON: You now may continue.  You are now at the time when you are thinking about the danger that might befall you, if this person gets to Shayamoya in that state.  Did you hear me?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes.  Can I continue now?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, you may continue.

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: This person had already walked for some distance but he was still within sight.  I instructed three people among the group to go and apprehend him and bring him back and they rand after him as instructed.  They ran after him, re-apprehended him and brought him back and Makashleni came, he was just walking, going wherever and he is the one who verified the person's explanation that this person knows, or should I say that Makashleni knows this person, that he was wearing a sheepskin and my concentration did not focus on that because I only know a person to be wearing a sheepskin when he says:  "I belong to this organisation", yet he doesn't, instead he belongs elsewhere, that is why, in so far as what Makashleni said really I did not take it up.  I continued with what I had thought and I then suggested that we should take him along and we went to some place.
	We went to some place near our homes where we, where I could work on him freely, knowing that nothing would disturb me on what I wanted to do.

MR MALAN: Sorry for interrupting but this is coming back now after the second or third time about being disturbed close to your house or where you were living.  I understood this picture to be that at the place where you were living it was only the 16 people, no other people were living there, or was this part of a larger settlement?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, I am saying in our residence there were farms surrounding that area and  there were people working on those farms.

MR MALAN: Please listen to my question and answer my question.  The are where you were living, were there other people apart from your 16 living there?  Were there other houses, or just the houses of your group?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No.

MR MALAN: No what?  Were there other houses?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No, there were no other houses.

MR MALAN: There were only the houses of your group?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes.

MR MALAN: And that's the group involved in this killing, this assault and killing?

MR MALAN: Now who would disturb you there?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: As I have explained that we had already left our area of residence.  We had now gone to some place near some industries.  This was no longer the Virginia Airport area and therefore people from these industries could have easily disturbed us during their normal duties, walking around and by so doing we could be easily disturbed.

MR MALAN: So the people from the industries, they freely walked the area where you were living?  Is that what you're saying?

MR PANDAY: Sorry, Mr Chairman, if I could just.

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No, they were just walking.  We knew that they did not belong in that area.

CHAIRPERSON: You were staying in an area that belonged to people working in companies or industries?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, you had different people or companies.

CHAIRPERSON: It was not your place?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: No.

CHAIRPERSON: You were squatters?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, we were squatters.

MR MALAN: And you were the only squatters there, or were there other squatters also in the area?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: We were the only ones, no any other person.

MR MALAN: Now did other people freely walk that part where you were squatting?  Did people walk through that area where you were squatting?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, people from the industries would walk through on their way to the farms, or going back to the compounds.  We know them, we were used to seeing them.

MR MALAN: So the place where you were squatting wasn't hidden and secluded, it was open and everybody could walk past?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Indeed so.

MR MALAN: So all the industry workers that passed through there, knew of the settlement where you were squatting?  It was no secret.

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: It was not a secret, they knew.

MR MALAN: Okay, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You may continue with your evidence.  I don't know whether you still remember where you had stopped?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, I still remember.  I am here on the re-apprehension of the deceased by the three.  We took this victim and we went to a gum tree area.

CHAIRPERSON: Continue.

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: We went into this plantation and Moses sent this child belonging to my brother, he sent the child to an area where there were ruins and he sent him for wires.  He went to the ruins and came back with wires.

ADV DE JAGER: This child, whose child was it?  What was his father's name?  Mashinela or what?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: So he was the child of the father who sent this murderer to you?

SINANGWENYE AKA NTSHETHA: Yes, that was my brother's child, Mashinela's child.

ADV DE JAGER: Why didn't this child stay with his father, why did he stay with you?