Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... stop you for a second.  Did they arrest you to bring you in for questioning?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did arrest us.

MR LAX: When was this, if you can remember?

WITNESS:   I am not quite certain but I think it was in 1981.

MR LAX: Who was arrested with you?

WITNESS:   Christine and Victoria, and others like Christine's husband and my uncles as well.  I was staying at my uncles' places in different times.

MR LAX: What's Christine's husband's name?

WITNESS:   Norman Ngema.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Alphus Khanyile, and my uncle's wife.  I don't know her name.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... quite a few of you from your family that were arrested, and they arrested you to try and get information about your brother Cyril.

WITNESS:   That is correct.  But what they said to us was that we were supposed to give them the guns and the bombs belonging to Cyril.

MR LAX: How long did that go on for?

WITNESS:   It took a long time.  It was from 1980s until 1990s.

MR LAX: Cyril was killed in 1983, isn't that right?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was killed in 1983 because they arrested him at Dube.  That's where they killed him.   Even though they didn't come back to us and tell us that they killed him we heard this from other people who knew him, or who knew us.  If I am not mistaken it was on Wednesday when they killed him.

MR LAX: The way I am hearing you tell this you say he was arrested and then he was killed.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.  They took me and they beat me, and they brought me to Vryheid Police Station for interrogation.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... talking about Cyril now.

WITNESS:   No, he was never arrested.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... a shooting, is that right?

WITNESS:   That is correct, he was killed in a shoot-out.

MR LAX: The impression I got from what you were saying earlier was that they arrested him and then they killed him ... (inaudible) ... it was you that they arrested ... (inaudible) ... him.

WITNESS:   Yes, they took me, they interrogated me, then they beat me.  At that time Cyril wasn't here.  He used to come inside the country to do whatever he was supposed to do.

MR LAX: Did you as a family get his body back after they killed him?

WITNESS:   No, we didn't get his body back, and what puzzled me it's that after they killed Cyril they continued to interrogate us or to harass us.  That's when they discovered that I had no idea.  What they discovered is that Nelson and Cyril were the people who were involved, and that's why I was harassed.  I was being harassed because of being a brother of Cyril and Nelson.  This went on until my family or relatives didn't want to accommodate me to their places because they were scared of being harassed as well.  And other people as well were scared of me, or to associate themselves with me.

MR LAX: Now, does your family know where Cyril's buried?

WITNESS:   No one from my family knows this.  This is what I would like to discover or to find out, because they used to come and arrest me and harass me, and I wasn't in good terms with anyone because of them.  They destroyed my name everywhere, and after the killed him they didn't know that I was his brother now, because they were supposed to come to me and tell me that, "Here's your brother, we've killed him now."  They continued after they killed him harassing me, and now they were harassing me because of being Nelson's brother as well.  And they found out that Nelson came from exile.  Before they came from exile my mother died in Maputo.  One policeman came.  His name is Filizo.  He's the one I still remember his name, and he told me that my mother is now late, and if I know about it.  And I told him I didn't have any idea, and then he asked me as to where the funeral was going to be.  At that time the situation was very tense.  There were conflict between the ANC and the IFP.  I didn't know whether to bury my mother in Vryheid.  And I couldn't bury my mother anywhere because I was no longer in good terms with my uncle.  So when they told me this as I took this as a joke from them.   (Inaudible) ... when did he come to you and tell you that your mother had died?   ---   It was in 1990 October.

MR LAX: Did you receive information from ANC people that your mother had died?

WITNESS:   Yes, ANC had reported this matter to me.  They used to report matters like this early in time, so when these people came they just came to laugh at me, as if they wanted to do something for me.  I was angry, so when they left it wasn't easy and it wasn't nice.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... over a long period of time you'd suffered certain kinds of torture at the hands of the police.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: What sort of things did they do to you?

WITNESS:   They used to beat me, especially white policemen.  They used to make - form a circle and then beat me.  They used to use the back of their guns to hit me.  They would do this until they were tired doing so.  They never arrested me.  They used to take me for a day and release me the next day, and then I would go back to my work, because I was working at Hlobane at that time.  This had implications at my job, because the management at the mine were not happy about me.  I was known as an ANC member, therefore I wasn't safe at all.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... keep an appropriate distance from it, otherwise it's going to get too loud and then the speakers will have a problem.  Thank you.  You were saying the management had a problem because you were ANC at Hlobane.  What happened?  Did you lose your job eventually?

WITNESS:   Yes, I lost my job, because after that there was a fight or a conflict, the one that Prince who was here, the witness who was here before me, told you about.  I was a member of the union, and people who were supposed to be killed was myself and other shop stewards.  I ran away, I went to Nkambule, because I couldn't go to my relatives because my relatives were scared as well.  Also my management didn't want me.

MR LAX: So the sorts of torture you had were essentially assaults?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: No other ... (inaudible) ... as far as you can remember?

WITNESS:   What actually tortured me was my emotions.  I didn't have a place to sleep or to go to.  My relatives couldn't take me.  Besides being beaten I had no friends, because wherever I would go they will follow me, or follow that place.  They forced me to work with them, to become a spy or an informer, and I told them I couldn't do that.

MR LAX: Now, your wife was also at some point assaulted by the police.

WITNESS:   Yes, she was harassed by police, because they never stopped.  Even today they are still harassing me.  They still come to my place even though they don't explain to me why they are there, but they do come.  And I am not working at the moment.  As I am not working I have six children whom I am supposed to support, and what I am doing to support my children, I have a shebeen at my home.  I am selling liquor.  But still they do come, and you can tell that they aren't coming there because I have a shebeen, they come there because they want to harass me.  They'll harass my children, they'll point guns at my children, even at my wife, and that to me it's still a torture.

MR LAX: Where are these police from?

WITNESS:   From Vryheid.

MR LAX: Have you complained about this to anybody?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.  I wrote a letter to Mr Mafumadi, the Minister.  I think it was in 1994 I wrote a letter.  In 1994 I wrote a letter to Mr Mafumadi, but up until today these things they still occur.  As I am talking to you I just wrote a letter to the station commander to explain this harassment from police.

MR LAX: In your statement you told us about another relative of yours, Innocent Hlongethwa.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR LAX: Who is he?