Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 2000-10-05

OESMAN ALEXANDER: It was mainly members of the Q Town Youth Movement as well as other CAYCO members who were in the building at the time.

GEORGE BIZOS: Which were in the building at the time.  Did you identify yourself at the time?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Yes, I did.

GEORGE BIZOS: The other people that identified themselves, did you know them well?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Yes, I did.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did they identify themselves correctly in relation to their activities in 89 and their subsequent educational and social achievements?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Yes they did, Your Worship.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.  Where would this information - did you do anything to give any idea to anyone that you were a bunch of gangsters?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: No, Your Worship, in fact we tried to get the kids off the street, it was one of our objectives, to try and redirect their energies and efforts to become not model citizens, but to try and achieve something in life.

GEORGE BIZOS: Was the Kewtown Youth Movement affiliated to the UDF?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: We were affiliated to CAYCO, Cape Youth Congress, who in turn was affiliated to the UDF?

GEORGE BIZOS: Oh so that was. ...(intervention)

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Indirect.

GEORGE BIZOS: Indirect affiliation.  Did you ever discuss or permit any act of violence?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: No, Your Worship, never.

CHAIRPERSON: What were the aims and objectives of the Kewtown Youth Movement?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Objectives were social, economic and political.  Basically we wanted to take the kids off the street.  We tried to do it by means of entertainment, outings, excursions, we tried to educate them in terms of the dispensation of the day.  Essentially we tried to better them as people, to strive for a better Kewtown as well, uplifting the community as a whole.

GEORGE BIZOS: How many of you on the Committee were still at school at that time?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: The majority of our members were aged between 15 and 20 and most of the members at the time were at school, except for myself, Peter, Chris was starting to exit the Committee because he became actively involved in the Trade Union at the time and there were amongst others a school teachers, who was Claude Nicholas, known as Boetie, as well as Roy.  I think Roy's surname is Isaacs, I speak under correction.  But the rest were school-going kids, high school kids.

GEORGE BIZOS: How difficult would it have been for any person that wanted to do anything to you or against you for whatever reason to determine objectively what the ages and objects were, what sort of people you were, whether you were good pupils at school?  You were a student at the time.

OESMAN ALEXANDER: That's correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: Whether you were good students, or whether - what your views were and what your activities were?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: It wouldn't have been difficult at all.  The meetings were open, we were all known in the community and we interacted with people within the community, so anyone could have free access and entry to our meetings and our activities.

GEORGE BIZOS: It was also suggested that, well it was said, that information came to the Director of the CCB that you were responsible for the two explosions that had taken place in the Post Office and the Magistrate's Court.  Did you or any member of the Committee or of the organisation as far as you, in the broader organisation that was responsible for those acts?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: No Your Worship, it was not ...(indistinct) and /or the Cape Youth Congress that had been involved there.

GEORGE BIZOS: Another bit of detail that came to the Director of the CCB was that one of the deceased that placed a bomb at one or other of the two places where the bombs exploded, was the half sister of a member - a lady member of your Committee.  Was that true or false?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: That is false.  I have known Peter Williams for a very long time.  In fact he was basically my neighbour.  he lived up stairs from where I lived, so I am acquainted with his family, so that's false.

GEORGE BIZOS: How difficult would it have been to check that information by anyone who intended placing a bomb at the place that you were gathered?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: It would not have been difficult, Your Worship, Gakkie was quite familiar with Peter and Peter's family as well, so he had basically easy access and he could speak to unfairly at the time as well, prior to that.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.  How far did Hardien live from ...

OESMAN ALEXANDER: At the time of the bomb explosion, Peter was about 100 metres away from Gakkie, but if I could just put it into context, Peter had moved from a different part of Kewtown to that point at that time, so although I say Peter was my upstairs neighbour, at the time, when he was close to Gakkie, he didn't live - he wasn't my upstairs neighbour anymore.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes.  So do I understand you correctly, that if they - they could quite easily have checked that dramatic information would Gakkie, if they took just a bit of care?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: That's correct, Your Worship.

GEORGE BIZOS: Let us return to the evening in question.  you've described in your statement of hearing this tremendous explosion.

OESMAN ALEXANDER: That is correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: Incidentally, the injury to your ear, was that a temporary or a permanent?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Well I think it's of a permanent nature, but I can still hear properly.

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, it's not serious?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: Not very serious, no.

GEORGE BIZOS: Now what did you do as soon as this explosion took place?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: We all were flung to the ground except for one of the members who stayed seated, I think that is Sensala Meira.  I then ran towards the, if I could just use the picture, the photograph?

GEORGE BIZOS: Yes, of course.

OESMAN ALEXANDER: In terms of this picture, B is the Board Room.  I ran, not towards the entrance, there is another double door leading towards the Blue and Yellow Units, that's where the bigger children were and we tried running out that way, but we were basically cornered in.  There was a fence with barbed wire on top, so we ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, I don't have the photo.  So you ran towards the foyer?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: We didn't run towards the foyer.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh you went the other way.

OESMAN ALEXANDER: There is another set of double doors which leads to the Blue and Yellow Units and at that double door, you come outside but you're still within the premises and the entire premises were fenced in.  We then decided to go back via the Board Room towards the foyer where people of the community started running in and attempting to help us.

GEORGE BIZOS: At that stage, were the lights still on after the explosion?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: I speak under correction.  The lights in the Board Room were still on, in the passage, the foyer were still on, but I don't think the hall had any lights, thereafter it was dark, everything was hanging towards the ground and we exited the front gate.

GEORGE BIZOS: You went out of the front gate.

OESMAN ALEXANDER: That's correct.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you see the people that you had seen in the entrance hall or foyer of the building, the Soccer Committee people, did you see them?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: I can remember seeing two people.  One was a Mr Ericson, ...(indistinct) as know to us and the other was I think Wally, if my memory serves me correctly.  I didn't see anyone else in terms of the Soccer people.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you find out where they were at the time of the explosion?

OESMAN ALEXANDER: We heard that they were in the foyer at the time of the explosion.

GEORGE BIZOS: Did you see or hear about immediately afterwards, whether any people were injured by the explosion?