Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: Could you repeat the question please?

MR MALENDI: Did your wife, Mrs Du Randt, at any stage tell you that the packet which supposedly contained a jersey for Mr Derby-Lewis actually contained a weapon as well?

UNKNOWN: After I delivered it, she said that she had checked and that it contained a weapon.

MR MALENDI: When did she tell you that?

UNKNOWN: It was when Mr Derby-Lewis - when we had left Mr Derby-Lewis' house, I can't remember exactly when.

MR MALENDI: On the evening on which she received the parcel, did she tell you that there is a weapon in that parcel?

UNKNOWN: No she didn't say anything about the weapon, she only mentioned that there was a jersey and that she had put the jersey in the laundry.

MR MALENDI: After you had driven up to Mr Derby-Lewis' driveway, you had knocked at the door and you came back to the car walking with Mr Derby-Lewis, did Mrs Du Randt say anything to Mr Derby-Lewis about the parcel not containing only a jersey but also a weapon?

UNKNOWN: I didn't hear anything, I was outside the car, I was walking around it in order to climb in and my wife handed over the package and I couldn't hear what her conversation with Mr Derby-Lewis was.

JUDGE WILSON: Did your wife handed over the package?

UNKNOWN: My wife handed over the package because she was closer to Mr Derby-Lewis who stood on her side of the motor vehicle.

JUDGE WILSON: I thought you said in chief that you knocked on the door, you told Derby-Lewis you had brought the jersey and you gave him the jersey and some post?

INTERPRETER: The speakers microphone is not on.   The speaker's microphone is not on.

MR PRINSLOO: I'll keep my finger on it Mr Chairman maybe it will work.

JUDGE WILSON: It appears that the light doesn't come on on that microphone, can't they give him one that works?

CHAIRPERSON: It was put to you that you said in your evidence to counsel that you delivered the parcel and the post to Mr Derby-Lewis yourself, that's not correct is it?

UNKNOWN: That is not correct, my wife handed it over.

MR MALENDI: Thanks, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Du Randt, what I want to make sure is whether at any stage you came to know that what your wife had received and what you and wife delivered at Mr Derby-Lewis' house was a weapon.  On the evening on which your wife received a parcel, do you say she did tell you that the parcel contained a weapon as well or not?

JUDGE WILSON: That's not what he said.  He said she told him after they had left Derby-Lewis' house when they'd handed it over.

MR MALENDI: Thank you Chairperson.  And is it your evidence that yourself, you did not handle the parcel at all?

UNKNOWN: That is correct I did not handle it myself.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, you made a statement to the police is it not so?

UNKNOWN: I did make a statement.

MR MALENDI: I would like you to identify the statement which I'm handing out to you now.  Is that the statement you made to the police on the 21st April 1993?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  May I read through it?

MR MALENDI: Your signature that appears ...[intervention]

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson, the witness is still studying the statement.

UNKNOWN: Yes it's my signature.

CHAIRPERSON: He must just answer the questions he will have a time to read it.  He's just required to identify the statement first.  This is your statement and your signature?  Carry on.

UNKNOWN: Yes it is my signature.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt could you please read paragraph 6 of your statement onto the record?

UNKNOWN: "She said to me that somebody unknown had brought her the jersey package of Mr Clive Derby-Lewis and that she said that I should phone Clive and tell him that his package was at our home.  She phoned him and he told her that he would collect the package the next day.  My wife told me that very same evening that she had looked at the package and that it was not a jersey but actually a firearm.  I didn't look at the package and thus did not know what the contents of it was."

MR MALENDI: Thank you.  So in your statement you say that your wife told you on the same evening that she received this parcel, that it contained a weapon?

UNKNOWN: I can't remember exactly, but I know that it definitely happened the next day that I peeked.

MR MALENDI: Chairperson, I beg leave to hand out this statement as an exhibit.

CHAIRPERSON: AJ

MR MALENDI: As the court pleases.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Yes, do carry on.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt, at the stage when Mrs Du Randt handed over the parcel to Mr Derby-Lewis did you hear her tell Mr Derby-Lewis that the parcel contained a weapon?

UNKNOWN: No, I did not hear the conversation because I was walking around the car.

MR MALENDI: Because in her evidence in this hearing at page 875 of the second record she says that she did utter these words - how come you did not hear them if you were near the car and walking to the car with Mr Derby-Lewis?

UNKNOWN: I will repeat it.  He was standing at her passenger door, on her side of the motor vehicle and I was walking around to climb in on my side.

MR MALENDI: Chairperson, if you can bear with me for a second?  I would like to read to you what Mrs Du Randt said when she gave evidence during this hearing, it's further down on page 875
"The next morning after we had met Clive, my husband had rang the bell and he had come out and I said to him..."
and I presume the him was to Mr Derby-Lewis- 
"I thought it was a man's jersey but I see now it is a gun."
	Did you hear those words being uttered by Mrs Du Randt?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Excuse me, you did hear those words?

UNKNOWN: No.

JUDGE WILSON: I think it should be recorded as Mr Bizos did in his heads of argument that this is read from the second record.  We have two records with the same page numbers on them which are a little confusing.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes 875 of the second record.  Do carry on.

MR MALENDI: Thanks Chairperson.   Did you after you had come to know that what was delivered to Mr Derby-Lewis was a weapon, did you ask Mr Derby-Lewis what the weapon was for?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Did you ask Mr Derby-Lewis why he had said a jersey would be delivered at your house while in fact a weapon was delivered at your house?

UNKNOWN: Chairperson, I asked no questions or made no queries regarding the weapon after that.

MR MALENDI: Was it not of concern to you that a weapon was delivered at your house in a clandestine manner?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Is it because you knew why it was delivered at your house and for what purpose?

UNKNOWN: No I didn't know anything.

MR MALENDI: Is it perhaps because you suspected what it was for?

UNKNOWN: No.

MR MALENDI: Mr Du Randt if you look at your statement EXHIBIT AJ at paragraph 4, will you agree with me that originally you had put the date on which you attended this Town Council Meeting as 31 March 1993 and then you scratched out 31 March and you put 24 February 1993?

UNKNOWN: I didn't write that in, Mr Assur wrote it in, they led me to understand that it was on the 31st March and I told them that it couldn't have been that recent it had to be a bit further back, that the jersey had been delivered to my home and I told that it was actually the 24th March because meetings were usually held on the last Wednesday of the month.

MR MALENDI: Did you delete 31 March and put 24th February?

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson, he has said that he did not write that and that it was the police officer Assur who in fact wrote it there.

MR MALENDI: Did you put your initial on the side, on the left hand side next to the deletion, of 31 March and the replacement thereof with 24 February, did you put your initial there?

UNKNOWN: Yes after Mr Assur had deleted it and I did place my initials there to confirm that it was in fact not the 31st March.

MR MALENDI: So by putting your initial there you confirmed the change of the date is it not so?

UNKNOWN: Yes that the dates had changed.