Amnesty Hearings — Aliwal North — 1998-04-28

MR PRIOR: I want to put to you finally as a proposition, that you had successfully launched this attack, this operation.  You had managed to shoot up the vehicle, could have still burned the vehicle, you had injured Mr Smit.  I want to suggest to you that you could have made the same political statement by leaving him alive that by killing him, because he could have conveyed the message to those authorities, to the people that - the political party to which he belonged.  Do you agree with that, he could have given a more powerful message to them having survived this attack than being killed, as you killed him?  In other words, I'm suggesting to you that you had an alternative, you had an option open to you, and it wasn't necessary to kill this person to achieve your political objective.

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: Would you like me to answer?

MR PRIOR: Do you agree with that, or don't you agree?  You can say yes or no, I don't need a long discussion about whatever.  Do you agree with that, or don't you agree?

HUMPHREY LUYANDA GQOMFA: I don't agree with that.

MR PRIOR: I've no further questions, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Re-examination?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Is that the applicant's case?

MR MBANDAZAYO: Correct, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, as I've indicated to you, I only have one witness to call, that's Mr Franzsen.

CHAIRPERSON: I think that I should make it clear that on each occasion when I have said today, "is that the applicant's case" and the applicant's attorney has agreed, it is subject to the reservation that if the further information becomes available, he will be entitled to re-open this case.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

MR PRIOR: Mr Chairman, may I likewise indicate that this matter also falls within the same areas as the broader allegation which has been investigated, and should anything be forthcoming, it would be presented.

CHAIRPERSON: It will be dealt with in the same way.  It does appear that although we had what was treated as separate matters last week, it may well be that the same principle is involved in all of them.

MR PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  I call Mr Franzsen.  Would he come forward please.  Mr Andrew Lategan Franzsen.

MR FRANZSEN: (Duly sworn in)

MR PRIOR: Mr Franzsen is it correct that in March of 1992 you were employed at Frasers Furnitures in Sterkspruit and you were employed as a Credit Manager?

MR FRANZSEN: That is correct, yes.

MR PRIOR: On the 18th of March 1992 it is common cause that whilst you were driving in a motor vehicle, or were you a passenger, in a motor vehicle being driven by, is it Mr Maarten?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct.

MR PRIOR: Together with Mr Fanie Smit, the deceased, and one Ben Maliehe.  There was - your vehicle was shot at near the Mayaphuti crossing, that's about 30 kilometres from Zastron?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct, yes.

MR PRIOR: Is it correct, as a result of that incident you made a statement to the Police at Zastron on the 18th of March 1992?

MR FRANZSEN: That's also true.

MR PRIOR: That statement was made in Afrikaans, is that correct?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct, yes.

MR PRIOR: And signed by yourself?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes.

MR PRIOR: You read the statement again this morning, is that correct?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, that's 100% correct yes.

MR PRIOR: And do you confirm the contents of that affidavit?

MR FRANZSEN: I confirm the contents, yes.

MR PRIOR: And you adhere to the contents of that affidavit?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct, yes.

MR PRIOR: You've now listened to the application of Mr Gqomfa in this matter, you followed the evidence that he has given.  Is there anything that you wish to say, or any remarks or comments you wish to add to, or to say in respect of what he has told this Committee, regarding the incident that has ...(intervention)

MR FRANZSEN: Well, what I can say is, if we also had the same weapons to defend ourselves, then I think it should have been a different ball-game, but that was not the case at that time, and I can only say we were very shocked and devastated by what had happened on that specific day.

MR PRIOR: Were you armed at all on that day?

MR FRANZSEN: Not at all.  We were not allowed to take weapons into Sterkspruit, and we were not allowed to, as were the Company policies, to take weapons into the stores.

MR PRIOR: Can you say whether this was known generally in the area, or not?

MR FRANZSEN: It was not known in the area, no, because of special permits that you were supposed to have from the Sterkspruit Government.

MR PRIOR: So, in other words, if you had carried a firearm, you'd have to get a special permit at that time from the Transkei Government?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct.

MR PRIOR: And the Police at that time?

MR FRANZSEN: That's correct.  Afterwards we applied for those after this incident happened, but we never knew about it before the time.

MR PRIOR: As far as the shooting is concerned, can you maybe just take us through that incident, as best you can, from the time that you were aware that you were being shot at?

MR FRANZSEN: Okay.  Okay, right, what happened was that we were on our way to Sterkspruit.  We were approaching this junction where, Mayaphuti junction, and then we - from the position I was sitting, I saw the two people at the Mayaphuti junction, and as we went past, I just heard the gunshots and I ducked down below - onto the seat.  And then from - I could hear there was something wrong with the vehicle ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: Just stop there.  You were sitting in the rear of the vehicle?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, behind the driver, yes.

MR PRIOR: And Mr Ben Maliehe was sitting?

MR FRANZSEN: Next to me, on the left-hand side.

MR PRIOR: On the left-hand side, and where did the shooting come from, the left or the right of the vehicle?

MR FRANZSEN: From the right-hand side.

MR PRIOR: Please continue.

MR FRANZSEN: Okay.  And then from there we were - I just heard they said that we went through a Police blockade.

MR PRIOR: Sorry, who said that?

MR FRANZSEN: That was the driver, Mr Maarten.  And then we - as I said, well, we'll have to keep on.  He said to us that he can't, he can't go further, the car's engine has been shot, and we pulled over behind the bakkie that was parked about 400 metres from the junction, on the left-hand side of the road.

MR PRIOR: Just stop there, I want to show you a photograph.  Mr Chairman, I refer to bundle "B", photograph 37.  Can you say whether that was the vehicle, or a similar-looking vehicle?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, that was the vehicle, but I can't remember the railings on the back of the bakkie.

MR PRIOR: So it was a bakkie type?

MR FRANZSEN: It was a bakkie, and it was a CAC registration number.  I couldn't remember the whole of the registration number, but it was a CAC.

MR PRIOR: In paragraph 4 of your affidavit to the Police which appears at page 26 of bundle "A", you said that you fell flat on the seat.  Mr Marten reduced speed.  You said something that you thought it was a Police roadblock.  You said because you saw one black man in a Police uniform, it was like a camouflage type uniform.

MR LAX: It's field dress, not camouflage.

MR PRIOR: I beg your pardon "velddrag".  Can you maybe just expand on that?

MR FRANZSEN: Yes, we were - as we went past we saw that one of the people were dressed in the field dress of the SA Police.

MR PRIOR: SA Police, or?

MR FRANZSEN: SA Police, yes.  It was the same - similar type of dress that they were using.  That was to, as we were thinking afterwards, it was to confuse us, that ...(intervention)

MR PRIOR: Did Mr Maarten actually slow down?

MR FRANZSEN: He slowed down, yes.  He actually left some marks on the road, some skidmarks as he hit the brakes?

MR PRIOR: And then?