Human Rights Violation Hearings — Lusikisiki — 1997-03-25

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: (sworn states)

MR SANDI: Mr Phangomso, I would like you to come nearer to the microphone and as you are giving your evidence can you please face me so that if I want to disrupt you, you can see me.
 Mr Phangomso you were in the same village with the two men here.   You are a member of the mentioned organisation?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.  The meetings were also held in my house, in my home.

MR SANDI: Are you a member of this organisation.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes I am a member of this organisation.

MR SANDI: Your house was also burnt down?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.

MR SANDI: Can you please tell us when this happened, what time was it, who was in the house at that time?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I would like to stand up as I am giving my evidence.  Please forgive me.
 Before my house was burnt it was at night, I was sleeping.   One policeman, names Mavatha came to my home together with Zincedile Pothe and Viani Mothandabuso.  Monwabisi Jama was also there. 
 When I opened the door Monwabisi has a gun and he said ...

MR SANDI: Is Monwabisi a policeman?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: No, Monwabisi is not a policeman.  He was
with the police.

MR SANDI: He had a gun?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.   The policeman also had a gun, a revolver.  The other two had sjamboks.  One of them was a policeman, Mavatha.  The second, Monwabisi Jama, is not a policeman.

MR SANDI: These people who were not policemen, who were together with the police, were they members of your organisation or were they members of any other organisation?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: They were people who were asked by Mavatha to accompany him to come and arrest us together with Nqetho.

MR SANDI: Were they coming to arrest you?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.

MR SANDI: Please continue Sir.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I woke up in my bed and I put on my clothes.  They told me to hurry up and I put on my clothes.

MR SANDI: Who was telling you to hurry up?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: It was Monwabisi Zincedile Pothe.

MR SANDI: They were telling you to hurry up?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes.  Zincedile Pothe was in our village.

MR SANDI: What was his position in the village?  What was his status in the village?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I was so scared because these people had a revolver.  They told us we were going to the Chief's house and I thought that they would not take us to the Chief's house.   They would take us to their homes.  And they did that.
 When we arrived at their homes they sent a message 
for one man to be picked up.  
 I was scared, because we were going to cross a river and it was dark.  I was scared that they were going to shoot us.
 These men woke and we went with them to the Chief's house.  We arrived in the morning together with Nqethu.
There were two of us and these people were six.  We were eight together.
 When we arrived at the Chief's house we sat near the kraal and the Chief just took his chair and he came with his chair to us.   His chair was in the back.

MR SANDI: Who is this Chief, because I saw you pointing down.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: There he is.
 They were taking us to him.

MR SANDI: Who is he?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: He is Chief Bukrula.

MR SANDI: Please continue with your story.  What happened?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: When he said down, Mavatha said to him...

MR SANDI: Mavatha is a policeman?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes, the policeman.   He said, Chief we have brought these people.  We want to know who is the real chief in the village?   Nqethu stood up and he answered them.
 He asked them, how is he a chief because he is a member of this organisation.  Mavatha said, you are a Chief, can't you see that you are a Chief?
 And the Chief stood up and said, I am no longer a Chief.   He said, can't you see that he is the Chief.

MR SANDI: What happened after that?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: While we were still there Mavatha stood up again and he said, Sir, you must not divulge what I am doing, but I am fixing something up.

MR SANDI: Let us now go back to the incident, Mr Phangomso, to the incident of your house being burnt, but before we do that, what happened to you in the Chief's house?   Were you released, did you go back home?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: When Mavatha left together with his group he left the word that he was going to fix up something and we were scared after he said these words. I saw him when my house was burning down, he jumped over my fence.

MR SANDI: Did any policeman come to your house to look at the damage?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I went to the police.  I went to our Chief before going to the police.  I sent Zingisile, but the Chief did not come.  Then I decided to go to the police.

MR SANDI: Your intentions when you were sending this young man to the Chief, what were you expecting?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I expected him to come and to take me with him to the police.

MR SANDI: Was that the usual way in your village when such incident happened, before you can go to the police you have to go to the Chief to report?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes, if something happened in our village you have to go and report it to the Chief and you will be given instructions by the Chief on what to do.

MR SANDI: In conclusion Mr Phangomso, what was the damage at home when your house was burnt down?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: When I count my belongings that were damaged because that was like a storage hut to me.  Everything was there.  I stored everything in that hut.

MR SANDI: What is your request to the Commission concerning what happened to you?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Although I make this request to the Government I do understand that I am old now, this happened while I was still working.  I do not know who is going to replace all the things that were burnt down, because I do not have a son.

MR SANDI: What is your request to the Government, Mr Phangomso?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: My request to the Government is that the Government will see what to do and will help me to try and built up my home again.

MR SANDI: Are you safe in your village?   Is there a request you want to make concerning your safety in your village?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: That will not help because as I am here today, when I go out I do not know what will happen to me at night.  There is devil all over in that village.  There is evil in that village.

MR SANDI: Is there anything you think will happen to you, Mr Phangomso as you came here to testify to this Commission?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: Yes, anything can happen to me.  I will not hide that.  If the Government answers my request I will be dead by then.   There is a lot of evil there, a lot of darkness.

MR SANDI: Are you saying that you might be killed for having come here?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I swear by my mother's grave.  I am waiting for anything.  I will be killed, because I came here and spoke.  They are going to kill me.

MR SANDI: Are there any other residents in your village that you think should have been here perhaps to talk, to speak as you have but they are scared.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: There is plenty of people.  The entire organisation is afraid to come forward.

MR SANDI: What are they afraid of?

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: The organisation was destroyed when it started.  People were strong enough to come together again and was destroyed yet again.  There now is no unity within the organisation.

MR SANDI: Mr Phangomso, because we have a statement before us I am not going to continue with other questions. I will hand over to the Chairperson so that if he had other questions, maybe the panel, my colleagues here may ask them.   You may sit down.
 Thank you Mr Phangomso.

SIPHO JACKSON PHANGOMSO: I have a request.   I request that Ngilu must come and talk because he was our leader in the village.  He is the person who was the head of our organisation.