Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-22

MS MKHIZE: Looking back today where do you think things went wrong?  I suppose when you started off being involved with students you didn't anticipate that schooling in Soweto will come to a standstill over many years?

FANYANA MAZIBUKO: Just before the meeting at the Methodist Youth Centre we had met with Matabata and Curtis and we had decided that perhaps certain action was at that point much more important than our consideration of being in the schools.  We really did not foresee a total breakdown of
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education.  But at that time there was no real education in schools anywhere because of the activity of the police.  So we decided that we needed to take drastic action to correct the situation.  So we had at that time decided or accepted that there was no education going on. So that we would disturb education perhaps is something that we cannot answer.

MS MKHIZE: I thank you very much. I will ask the Chairperson to take over.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Mr Mazibuko at that time were there efforts made perhaps to provide an alternative education to the students who were almost out of control?

FANYANA MAZIBUKO: If I get your question correctly you want to know whether something could be done to continue the process of education?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Yes.

FANYANA MAZIBUKO: Ja, as I said in my written statement, there are a number of things that I have left out because there is so much to write about.  We started a programme at the YMCA where teachers volunteered to give their service free of charge to teach those students who missed out.  Later on when money came from Holland to pay these teachers we managed to give them a small token for the service they were giving.  This programme went on for several years.  It stopped when we thought students were moving back to school.  And also when, I think it was around the time of the formation of the UDF, when we thought it was not correct to have a multiplicity of organisations all over the place, so that kind of thing disturbed that programme and it stopped.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At that time what would you estimate the
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support of Teachers Action Committee to have been nationwide?

FANYANA MAZIBUKO: The Teachers Action Committee was not nationwide in its immediate activity.  However, the Teachers Action Committee did, on an informal basis, get in touch with teachers in various other schools in various other provinces.  Our focus really, if you remember the Teachers Action Committee actually was called The Soweto Teachers Action Committee because it focused its actions on Soweto, and because of that later on a number of other new teachers' organisation which were provincially or even regionally based came up, because the Teachers Action Committee was not in any, or did not pretend to be national, although it did discuss national issues.

THOMAS MANTHATA: What support from the community did the Teachers Action Committee enjoy?

THOMAS MANTHATA: I believe in Soweto and later on amongst teachers, particularly high school teachers, the Teachers Action Committee enjoyed quite a lot of support.  I remember that in most of the meetings which took place in this church and commemoration services which took at this church the Teachers Action Committee was in fact part of a structure which probably is very little known which we referred to as "Mximbe" and it participated together with other organisations which were part of this structure which coordinated things around protest, around meetings which involved the community.
 However, I can also say that on its own it also drew quite a lot of following from the general community, for example the meeting I referred to earlier on which was at this church, this church was packed with supporters.
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YASMINE SOOKA: Mr Mazibuko we would like to thank you for coming.  You have given us a submission, a written submission which is quite lengthy.  There are many aspects of it which we would like to touch base on, but as you yourself have indicated other people have touched on those as well.  We will, however, be considering your submission and may in fact ask you to supply us with further information which will be relevant to the whole role of the teaching profession in what actually happened during that particular time.
 We thank you very, very much for sharing your experiences with us, and we are sure that lots of what you experienced in those days has helped you to shape whatever is taking place in the education field today.  Thank you very, very much.
 I would also like to ask you, is there anything that you would like to suggest in terms of the recommendations that the Truth Commission should make to government in terms of the educational system?

FANYANA MAZIBUKO: One of the most important things which we highlighted about the shortcomings of education in this country was that there was this glaring material difference between Black and White provision of resources.  Whilst teachers, academics and people are busy putting the content and the philosophy around education in order unless we create an environment where teachers can actually teach properly by providing proper resources and ensuring that the children who go to these schools realise that they have now to take advantage of the victory that they have won by actually learning then that victory will slip through our hands.  By this I mean the responsibility for government to
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provide and government cannot provide unless we as people provide.  And it is the responsibility for government to organise education and there can be no way in which government can organise if we people do not organise.  There is a responsibility on parents to urge their children to take advantage of this new order.  
 There is also a responsibility on our young people, especially those who lived through this period to go back to their younger brothers and sisters who don't appreciate that this freedom they have won was won through the blood of those who died for it.  Some of them may be taking this freedom for granted.  It is important that we have educational programmes that include a clear exposition of how this freedom was won, lest we forget and take it for granted.  Lest everybody forgets and we have a repeat of that cycle.  Let this never happen again, and it will be avoided only if we know why and how it happened.  This must be part of our educational system.  And by this I don't mean only Black students or Black children, both Black and White.  Whites in learning to approach Black children and Black children in learning to approach White children must understand that the past can not be allowed to be repeated.  And this can only happen if we know what it was that happened.
 In terms of resources I hear that we do not have the money in this country, but I also hear that we are at the threshold of a resurgence of investment and so on and so on.  This shifts a little bit of the responsibility on those who will benefit by that investment, I mean the business world.  It may not look obvious that the improvement of education, particularly that of Black people which was kept back, the 
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improvement of that education is in fact to their advantage as well, to the advantage of the whole country.  My appeal goes to government, to the business people, to parents and to our children that let us work together to ensure that when we get into those classes the classes are fit to be used for education, and we as students are fit to be in those classes to learn.  Thank you.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you very much.  Thank you for sharing your story with us.  Thank you.