Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-16

ADV GCABASHE: Mr Shane, really I have great difficulty too with the leading questions you are asking.  I'm sure, Mr Shane I haven't finished.  I'm sure the applicant, having given the instructions, can tell us in his own words exactly what happened.  I don't remember him saying the door opened at all.  You are putting that to him and he can only say yes or no to you.  Mr Shane we are not getting the story from him.  You know that it is the process is we hear from the applicant.  He's quite capable of telling us the story himself.

MR SHANE: Right, can you describe, after there was no response to you asking who was there, and you heard this rough kicking on the door, what did you do then?  What actually happened then?

ANTONY MACI: I became ready as I realised that it was the enemy that was kicking the door, which is the police.  Therefore I prepared myself to shoot and I did shoot, and he landed inside the house and that is when I noticed that it was Sikelo.  My uncle rushed him to hospital with his car, so that he should not die, because it was a mistake, he was not an enemy.  Unfortunately he died at the hospital.

MR SHANE: Can you remember how many bullets you fired?

ANTONY MACI: It was only bullet.

MR SHANE: Is it also true that you assisted with his funeral?

CHAIRPERSON: What has that got to do with the price of eggs Mr Shane?  Are you trying to prove the man was not guilty?

MR SHANE: No Mr Chairman that doesn't prove he's not guilty, it's just he's given ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR SHANE: Mr Chairman I'm just leading him on these factors.  This is just a factor that I was just leading him after the incident.  It's just something that he's saying.  It's got nothing to do with the killing as such.  He said he killed the person by mistake and he's given the circumstances.  Quite clearly I'm trying to show that this was a political, it was a political act on his part, notwithstanding the fact that it was clearly a mistake.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Shane I want to ask you not to clutter up the record unnecessarily, and lead your witness the way he should be led on the relevant issues.  We are not concerned about his financial contribution to the funeral.

MR SHANE: Right, that is, there's nothing further that you can say about the death of Sikelo Nyekane.  Is that correct?

ANTONY MACI: Our families came together and arrangements were made and everything was organised for his funeral in Transkei.

MR SHANE: Besides that, there's nothing about what we're talking.  The Commission is not interested in what happened regarding the funeral.  They just want to know the details of his death.  You've told everything about his death.

ANTONY MACI: Yes I've said everything I wanted to say.

ADV GCABASHE: Was Sikelo an SDU member?

ANTONY MACI: We were staying together at my home.

ADV GCABASHE: So he was coming home actually, because he lived with you in that house?

ANTONY MACI: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: How were you related to him?

ANTONY MACI: They were renting on our premises and we all came from the Transkei.

MR SHANE: Now is it also correct you were involved in the killing of another two males?

ANTONY MACI: That is correct, sir.

MR SHANE: Can you give a description of what happened there?

CHAIRPERSON: Before you carry on, when did the killing of Sikelo take place?

ANTONY MACI: If my memory serves me well I think it was late 1993 or January 94.

CHAIRPERSON: You don't know when you shot your friend, who was not an enemy?

ANTONY MACI: Truly speaking I cannot remember the date.

CHAIRPERSON: You estimate it in what year?

ANTONY MACI: I think it was January 1994 but I cannot remember the date.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes proceed.

MR SIBANYONI: What time of the day was it when the incident happened?

ANTONY MACI: I do not want to lie.

CHAIRPERSON: Well was it in the morning, afternoon, night, midnight, whatever?

ANTONY MACI: It think it was past eight or past nine in the evening.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MR SHANE: Right, you were involved in the killing of another two people, males, correct?

ANTONY MACI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Can you give a description of what happened there?

ANTONY MACI: I will talk about Mtolo first, Mtolo.  There was a general meeting that was held at Mpumelela School in Makula Section.  Mtolo had fled from Polla Park because he was the cause of the fights between the SDU's themselves who were shooting one another and Mtolo fled to Katlehong at Makula Section.
	We got the message that Mtolo was not a good person because he was also working with the police.   He was supposed to be killed.  Secondly ...

MR SHANE: Right, when you say he was supposed to be killed, did you get orders?

ANTONY MACI: Yes, we were given orders.

MR SHANE: By who?

ANTONY MACI: Our Commander, Bruce, told us to go and shoot him, it was myself, Max and Thabiso Mapige.  I was armed with a pistol.
	The two of them were armed with AK47 rifles.  We met with him at a passage.  I fired the first shot, they followed with their AK47 rifles, I gave them a chance to shoot him with their AK47 rifles, and I was the one who shot first.  He died.  We left him there.

CHAIRPERSON: Before you shot him?

ANTONY MACI: We found him at Makula Section, there was a passage.  We found him there after we were looking for him at a certain place where he was residing.  We met him at the passage and we killed him.

MR SHANE: Right.  You were also involved in the killing of another person, can you give a description of that?

ANTONY MACI: We shot Mr Ntshingila,  Mr Ntshingila,  after having received information from a gentleman who was staying at a house where we had put our firearms.  We heard that Mr Ntshingila had told the police that we had hidden the guns in this gentleman's place and this gentleman was an inyanga, a healer, and he was well known even in the white community and they told him who gave them this information.
	An urgent meeting was convened at school and the issue of Ntshingila as an informant was discussed, and he was also a shop owner at Kwesine Hostel that was occupied by IFP members and the people from the townships would not go to that hostel.
	Mr Ntshingila was called to the meeting at the school and the community was there, people from our community.  When he arrived there and when he was being questioned, he made some utterances that were showing that he was undermining everybody and he even mentioned that no one was going to touch him, he was going to bring the people from the IFP organisation to come and attack the Makula Section.
	The community was very angry and the community was forced to drive Mr Ntshingila to his place.  The people from the community decided to cut their telephone wires and I was the first one to shoot him.  Sol Bongani Madirabe shot him with a pump gun and another gentleman who is in kwaZulu Natal, who is in Newcastle, his name was Gorgothi, I cannot remember his real name, he was armed with an AK47 rifle, he also shot at him and he died.  He died at his house.

ADV GCABASHE: Just go over that for me very briefly.  He came to the meeting and was difficult at the meeting.  Then he left the meeting and you followed him.  Just from that point, where exactly did you kill him?

ANTONY MACI: When we left the meeting, he was in the company of the community, he was driven to his home.  When we arrived there, the telephone wires were disconnected and we did as the Commander said.

ADV GCABASHE: So this was a community meeting, not a SDU meeting?

ANTONY MACI: Yes, that is correct, it was a meeting of the community and all the SDU members.

ADV GCABASHE: All of the people who were at that meeting, observed the execution of Mr Ntshingila?

ANTONY MACI: Yes, that is correct.

MR SHANE: Right, now at this community meeting you said the community said certain things to the deceased.   Members of the community spoke to the deceased at this meeting?