Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-05

WITNESS:   I'm sick.  I always visit doctors.  I do not know what is wrong with me.  At times I have dizzy spells and I love ploughing the fields.  At time I collapse at the fields.  I only find myself being brought home by people who discovered me.  At times I do even go to Esikhawini.  I would go to Dr Qwabe at times and at times I would got to Mtubatuba.  I am getting some pension.

MRS GCABASHE: We want to follow up as to your health because  everyone who has gone through the things that you've gone through needs some psychological or psychiatric help.  We thank you very much.  I shall hand over to the Chairperson.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you pay when you visit this doctor?

WITNESS:  Yes, I do.  I pay R50,00 when I visit the doctor.

KHOZA MGOJO: We want to devise some means that people like you should get some assistance - medical or psychiatric assistance or attention.  Maybe we should connect you with the Department of Health where you can get some help without having to pay.  As soon as you're through speaking you will be consulted by members of our staff who shall help you and tell you as to how to go about getting this help because it is available so that you may be able to get the medical attention that you need.

MR LYSTER: Mrs Msweli, thank you very much for coming in and we know it has been very difficult for you to relive all those terrible experiences that you have gone through but you have volunteered to come here and it's very important for us that you have come here, to have told us what it was like for you and your family to have lived through those times, to have given us a detailed description of how the police harassed you perpetually, continuously harassed you, and killed two of your sons.  It's a story we have heard so often from people in this province - from women, women who, as I said yesterday, didn't participate in the violence, were not active in it at all and yet they suffered most from it because they lost their loved ones, their sons and their husbands, and we do extend our very deep sympathy to you.  Your colleague or your friend Ntombikanina Mthetwa  /told
told us yesterday about her son's death and now you have come today and told us about Simon's death and we know that they died together and we were glad that you were able to come to the Commission together, you and Michael Mthetwa's mother and tell your stories to us.  As you've told us and as other witnesses have told us and as Mrs Mary de Haas has told us today, there was a very strong relationship, there were very strong links between the police in this area, the stability unit and the police from KwaMbonambi and certain local indunas and other people and clearly it was as a result of this close co-operation and the close links between that induna and the police that your family was attacked or singled out for attack and that your sons died.  And even though you know the name of the policeman who killed your son, Steyn - even though that person was locked up, it's still not good enough.  It doesn't satisfy you.  It doesn't satisfy us, the fact that he is in gaol, because the system that created him is still in place and that is something that we have to fight against until we have a police force that we can all feel safe with and be proud of.  So thank you for giving us your story.  It's a very important story.  Thank you very much.
/MR LYSTER

MR LYSTER: The next witness is Mrs Ndawonde.  Good afternoon, Mrs Ndawonde.  We welcome you here today from Mtubatuba and you have come to tell us about the death of your brother, Mbuyasi Thamsanqwa.  Can you please stand up and take the oath before you tell us the story?

NURSE NDAWONDE: (Sworn states) (Through Interpreter)

MR LYSTER: Mrs Gcabashe will assist you.

MRS GCABASHE: I greet you, Mrs Ndawonde.  We appreciate that you stayed until this time to give your testimony.  First of all we would like you to relate to us more about your family.  Your own family or your father's family.  Tell us if you're married or not.

WITNESS:   I'm not married.

MRS GCABASHE:  No, you can start first whether you have mother, father, brothers and sisters.

WITNESS:   I'm staying with my children.  My mother and my father are staying in their own house.  They are still alive.

MRS GCABASHE:  According to your statement you're staying at Mtubatuba.

WITNESS:   I'm staying at KwaSokhulu not Mtubatuba.

MRS GCABASHE:  What about this Mtubatuba?

WITNESS:   No, I never stayed at Mtubatuba.

MRS GCABASHE:  You're still introducing your family.

WITNESS:   I'm staying with my children, five children.  I'm not married.  I have five children.

MRS GCABASHE:  Please tell me more about your children.

WITNESS:   My firstborn was born in 1976 and ... (intervention)

MRS GCABASHE:  His name?

WITNESS:   His name is Zibuyisile.  He's in Standard 8.  My second-born is Zandile and she was born in 1978 and she is in Standard 8.  Another one is  Bekinzenzo and he is in Standard 3.  He was born in 1980 and my fourth-born is Fikile.  She was born in 1986 and she is in Standard 1.  The last-born is Simlindile and Simlindile is not at school because she was born this year February.

MRS GCABASHE:  Are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I'm not.

MRS GCABASHE:  This name "Nurse", is it your name or the name of the job you do?

WITNESS:   No, it's my name.

MRS GCABASHE:  You aren't working and you're staying with your kids.  How do you maintain them?

WITNESS:   I'm planting vegetables.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now, please tell us more about Thamsanqwa.  Who is Thamsanqwa?

WITNESS:   Thamsanqwa is my grandmother's child.  To me Thamsanqwa is my uncle.   Yes, he is my uncle.

MRS GCABASHE:  In other words, you mean he's your father's brother?

WITNESS:   No, he's my grandfather's son.

MRS GCABASHE:  What's your grandfather's name?

WITNESS:   My grandfather's name is Thembinkosi Mbuyasi but he's now late.  No, he's not my brother, he's my uncle.

MRS GCABASHE:  Now, tell us what happened.

WITNESS:   Thamsanqwa was as student in a certain school at Sokhulu and it was - people were fighting at Sokhulu and they decided that they should take Thamsanqwa to another area and then in 1994 we heard that he was no longer there where we put him.  He was no longer staying there.  It was in 1990.   When you say you experience violence at that area, what do you mean?   ---   I mean that children at school were being attacked.  In 1994 we heard that Thamsanqwa was no longer in that house where we put him.

MRS GCABASHE:  When you said "we heard", what do you mean?

WITNESS:   /He was

MRS GCABASHE: He was staying at Mtamba's house and the parents from Mtamba's family came and told us that Thamsanqwa has been killed.  And then they explained to us that Thamsanqwa was studying and they heard a loud noise as if a door was breaking and they didn't realise that it was gunfire and when these other kids went to his bedroom that's when they realised that he was shot.

MRS GCABASHE:  These Mtamba people, they didn't hear anything?

WITNESS:   No, they said they only heard a loud noise so they thought it was a door breaking or something but they didn't think it was a gunfire.  They didn't hear anything except for that.

MRS GCABASHE:  And then what did you do?  Did you go to the police and report the matter?

WITNESS:   No, the only thing that happened, we went and fetched him.

MRS GCABASHE:  Who buried Thamsanqwa?

WITNESS:   It's us at home at Mbuyasi's family.

MRS GCABASHE:  Were you there?

WITNESS:   Yes, I was.

MRS GCABASHE:  And you didn't hear anything about what happened on that night?

WITNESS:   No, nothing.

MRS GCABASHE:  From your knowledge or what you've heard from other people or your suspicion, what happened?

WITNESS:   We never suspected anyone because he was staying in another area where we put him there.  Then we didn't hear any stories after that and no one was arrested for that.