Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

MR WILLS: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson, just one.  The Committee Member Ms Khampepe asked you about the other persons who came in from time to time to assist you in your operations, she mentioned the name Joyful Mtetwa.  We know there were a number of others - Victor Buthelezi and a host of other people.  Did at any stage were you approached by any of the hierarchy in Ulundi and by that I refer specifically to your commander Captain Hlungwane to Mr Luthuli to M.Z. Khumalo or to Prince Gideon Zulu.  Did at any stage they come to you and complain about the fact that you were using other persons?

MR MKHIZE: No, they did not.  What was important to them was whether I was achieving victory.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Mogadi do you have any questions arising?

MR MOGADI: No Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ngubane?

MR NGUBANE: Just one question Mr Chairman.
	Now Mr Mkhize is it correct that in spite of the fact that you used people who were initially not approved by the higher authorities of Inkatha.  They subsequently ratified their actions by complimenting you that you were doing a good job?

MR MKHIZE: They did get reports from me and reports to the effect that I was winning.  Captain Hlungwane in particular -I did indicate to Mrs Khampepe as well that I informed him that I had also brought in other people who were helping me, people whose names I have also mentioned but he did not object to that and he did not really have a problem.  He did not say I should not do that or I should fire them or he did not even demote me.

MR NGUBANE: Thank you very much Mr Mkhize.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mpshe, do you have any questions?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman I don't have any questions to the witness but there is something that I would like to get clarity on from the Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, there are two issues that were raised yesterday and perhaps they were unintentionally left unattended or left hanging.  Perhaps I should refer to them as request by Mr Khumalo as well as my colleague Mr Ngubane.  You recall Mr Chairman, Mr Ngubane made an informal application, I say informal because it was not substantiated that Dr Nglanga be subpoenaed and Mr Khumalo made a similar request in respect of inter alia Mr Hlungwane, M.Z. Khumalo, Biela and Umbiasi.  We would like to have clarity from the Committee so we should know myself and my colleague what steps we should take hereafter.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, does anybody want to make any comment on this?

MR NGUBANE: Well Mr Chairman if the Committee could give us some time to consider the position over the weekend and then we'll decide whether we're pursuing the application on Monday or on subsequent days thereafter.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think on this one we'll do that.  Mr Ngubane at the time indicated that the this could be dealt with at any stage during the hearing but I would like you to look specifically at the question of the power or the jurisdiction of the sub-committee such as this subpoenaing, issuing subpoena or authorising a subpoena in respect of an implicated person - my prima facie view is that if an implicated person receives notice in terms of section 19 of the act then that implicated person has a right to make submissions, tender evidence or to say nothing at all before the Commission as the implicated person is given a variety of options.  The question is different with regard to section 29 enquiries and if you could then, Mr Ngubane, if you say you're going to look at it over the weekend, you can take a look at this aspect as to whether an implicated person, who has been served notice can be subpoenaed to give evidence thereby detrimentally effecting that implicated person's statutory rights as contained in section 19.4 of the Act and also with regard to Mr Nglange, if one takes a look at section 30 of the Act, sorry Dr. Nglange, he's just been mentioned as an implicated person for the first time during the actual hearing unlike the persons being represented by Mr Hewitt who got prior notification.  If one looks at section 30 of the Act, it will be seen in the event of that happening, then it is incumbent upon the Commission to issue a notification to that implicated person who then has the same options as if a notice had been given in terms of section 19.4.  I just mention this now for you to consider during the course of the weekend.
I think this would be a convenient time to take the tea adjournment, it's already late.  We'll take the tea adjournment at this stage and then Mr Wills will we be commencing with the evidence of Mr Mbambo after that?

MR WILLS: Yes that's correct.  Obviously we won't be in a position to finish the evidence of Mr Mbambo but it looks as if we will have an hour.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mbambo just for the record is applicant number five.

MR WILLS: Yes that's correct.  Thank you Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee.
	Mr Mbambo you have made an application for amnesty which forms part of the record.  The application form you completed is page 1 of the record and attached to that is a lengthy affidavit which goes up to page 68 of the record.  Is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: Now you've obviously been through this affidavit very carefully, you've read it and do you confirm the contents of that affidavit to be true and to the best of your knowledge correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I do.

MR WILLS: Mr Chairperson, Members of the Committee what I propose to do which I think would be the best and most efficient way of proceeding in the circumstances is to lead Mr Mbambo on obviously his personal circumstances, the reasons why he got involved in this type of activity because those are unique to himself and then with the leave of the Committee I just intend asking him whether or not he confirms the evidence of Mr Mkhize in the other incidents in which he was involved together with Mr Mkhize, but in doing so, I full expect - know that the Committee has got the details as described in the affidavit by Mr Mbambo and obviously he'd be free to be questioned by any of the parties on that basis.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you and he may also find it necessary if he was involved in certain operations with Mr Mbambo described a role he himself played without setting out the whole background and the reason for the operation which we already have on record from Mr Mkhize unless he differs from Mr Mkhize of course.

MR WILLS: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mbambo, I'm going to take you through your affidavit which commences at page 4 of the record, your paragraph, your affidavit page 1.  At the time of this affidavit you were 26 years of age, you matriculated at Tugela High School at Mandini on the Natal North Coast and you resided in Umulazi.  Is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: It is so.

MR WILLS: You - at the time of your arrest were a KwaZulu policeman with the rank of Detective Constable and with the service number 2976.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is so.

MR WILLS: And you were stationed at the eSikhawini Detective Branch?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: As a result of some of the activities which have been detailed you were convicted in and are presently a sentenced prisoner and you are serving your sentence at Westville Prison under prison number 95159457?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: You in fact are in the process of serving what effectively is a seventy five year sentence.  Is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes it is so.

MR WILLS: You allege in paragraph 4 of your statement that the activities you got into were as a result of a political motivation.  Can you just briefly tell the Committee what you mean by that?