Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.

MR WILLS: This relates to the incident where the three Inkatha Youth Members - Mtenjwa Umbiasi and Mlambo had been arrested as a result of what Mr Mkhize told us was the attack on the ANC chairperson's house, Mr Mbeki Intuli, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: And Mr Mkhize indicated that Mr Willis Mkunu, an ANC leader had testified in the bail hearing that since the arrest of these boys the violence in the eSikhawini area had subsided somewhat, do you recall that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: Sorry, a question I meant to ask Mr Mkhize but possibly you can help me.  Did you or Mr Mkhize to the best of your knowledge actually attend the bail hearing at the Umtinzini Court?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes we were always present.

MR WILLS: So when you say Mr Mkunu testified to this effect you were present and you heard his testimony?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I was there.

MR WILLS: Now as a result of this, a decision was taken amongst a number of people that this evidence should be proved incorrect, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: And you embarked upon a horrific attack on ANC areas together with your colleagues is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: What vehicle was used for the purposes of this attack?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We used the same Mitsubishi combi that belonged to the Chief Minister, it had been brought by Mr Cele a well.

MR WILLS: Did Mr Cele know the purpose for which you were going to be operating?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes he did because the eSikhawini leadership had reported to Ulundi that the car would be required to do this task that is of refuting the evidence of Mr Nkunu.

MR WILLS: I see here at paragraph 74 at the bottom of page  33 of the record you say that I threw a hand grenade at a group of people who were standing outside this block of flats?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Didn't it concern you that these people might have been neutral or innocent?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I knew it without any hesitation that you wouldn't have resided at the Railway Hostel if you were neutral, if you were also not a member of the ANC.  Even the inside of the hostel was spray painted MK, Viva ANC, Viva MK.  There was always confrontation between IFP members and residents of that Railway Hostel therefore in that way I did not hesitate at all that only ANC members resided at that hostel.

MR WILLS: It seems to me that from the description of the attacks that you embarked upon as a result of this strategy that it is highly likely that possibly not at that hostel but at other areas that you attacked, that your group attacked, that certain innocent people could have been killed.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I do not deny that it could happen that in other areas people were attacked.  I would like to make an example -initially I spoke about the house where a girl was killed and it happened when people had been returning from a rally.  That is a house in J1 and that house was known as a house belonging to an ANC member and the people who were shot at the ground at the stadium were on the rooftop of that house.  When the IFP followers left the stadium they went to this house, they attacked the house, they burned the house, they went into the house and found a girl sleeping.  They kidnapped that girl and they went to kill her at another place.  After a while we discovered that the girl who had indeed died there was in fact a person - or her family had just arrived at eSikhawini and they did not know anything about the politics of the area.  They found a cheap house, bought it, not knowing that the owner had left the house because maybe he was an ANC member who was fleeing from the area.
	In that way I'm trying to explain that are people who were or may have been innocent who died in the fight between the ANC and the IFP.  We as the IFP soldiers could not avoid this.  This was supposed to be avoided by the leaders, by issuing out firm instructions that such attacks were not allowed but instead they were the people who encouraged this and they are the people who in fact taught us that we should operate in this matter.  In this I am trying to explain that there may be people who did in deed die but were innocent.

MR WILLS: In short are you saying that in regard to this specific attack that your leadership was also aware of what you are saying now as regards the risk to innocent persons?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now just an interesting point on page 75, I just want you to confirm this - Mr Mkhize has testified to that - sorry page 34 paragraph 75 - I'm referring to this so-called IFP lawyer Mr Gubele.  Do you confirm - do you have personal knowledge of what you say in paragraph 75 if you just want to refresh your memory?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I was there.

MR WILLS: And that was to the effect that after these attacks Mr Gubele went and he got statistics from Brigadier Msemela which were utilised at court the next day, is that right or whenever that bail application?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I was also present at the police station on that day.

MR WILLS: Now again you say that you have not been prosecuted in respect of any of these offences?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes, I have not been investigated nor arrested for these crimes.

MR WILLS: Would the people of eSikhawini know that you had conducted these attacks if it wasn't for yours and the other applicants statements, I mean I'm talking about you personally?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I think that although they may have had suspicions but it would have been difficult for them to know about the activities that went on because this was indeed done in a covert manner.  The people who were used in these activities were very trusted, were highly trusted in the organisation and we did these activities knowing clearly that if we could expose the information it would be similar to committing suicide because you would be killed if you did something of that nature so I don't see how the community of eSikhawini although they may have had suspicions, how they would have know certainly that the IFP and the KwaZulu government as a whole as well as the KwaZulu Police were all interwoven, we were one and the same thing on a campaign to attack and wipe out the entire ANC.

MR WILLS: Yes thank you.  Mr Mbambo, I understand from the evidence from both Mr Mkhize and Mr Luthuli that if you wanted to get out of this hit squad it was very difficult, you would probably end up dead but as I understand your evidence that isn't the reason why you were operating in the hit squad, you weren't scared to be killed, you in fact wanted to do what you were doing, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: I want to turn now to the next incident which occurs at the bottom of page 34 and that is the murder of Detective Sergeant Khumalo and his companion Mr Mabika.  Now again Mr Mkhize has given evidence to this effect and if my memory serves me well this incident involved you, apart from the planning, this incident involved you, Mr Mkhize and Inkanali Pumatenja, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.  Bernard Mlambo was also present.

MR WILLS: Now it's Mr Mkhize's evidence that it was Mr Matenja that actually fired the fatal shots?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: But that it was the purpose of all present and by that I include yourself that this person, Sergeant Khumalo was to be killed, in other words you intended to kill him when you went out on that operation that day?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And if Matenja hadn't have shot him, you yourself would have been fully prepared to shoot him, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.