Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mabopane — 1997-05-08

MS SEROKE: The story I'm about to tell is the truth and nothing else but the truth so help me God.

UNKNOWN: So help me God to tell the truth.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank-you  very much and now over to Dr Randera.

DR RANDERA: Mrs Chauke good afternoon, to you and to your friend.

UNKNOWN: Good afternoon Sir.

DR RANDERA: Ms Chauke you are taking us back to Hammanskraal in 1986. You have given us a very full history, you are a member of the UDF at the time and you were arrested with some colleagues comrades from your area Stinkbaken is that right?

UNKNOWN: That is true Sir.

DR RANDERA: Just tell us what happened, what were the circumstances and proceed after that, thank-you.

UNKNOWN: In 1976 on the 27th I think it was either June or July the police looked for me for a long time at home they used to come, they didn't find me they got my siblings and my husband that's my younger brother. They said they were looking for, then they said I am not there I went to a certain place called Mabopane when I returned  home, at home on the 27th they arrested me. After that they immediately assaulted me there then from there they put me in their van. I  remember police Kavambo they took me to Temba police station, there I was tortured they put a sackcloth on my head they kicked me, after that they took me to the cell with some comrades.   They took us to Bedwang police station we stayed in Bedwang. At home they were looking for us but they couldn't find us. After Bedwang we were taken to (...indistinct) prison. Whilst we were still at (...indistinct) prison lawyers came looking for us. They found us there. I was injured. When I was trying to pass water I was bleeding.   When we went to court before, they said they are looking for guns, because I'm a communist, but I said I'm not working with the communist they said we know there are people that told us that you are working with the communists, but  I said I don't know anything, they I told them that we'll meet in court, they returned me to court.
 Whilst we were in prison our comrades used to come and visit us. In September on the 19th in 1976, they give us a free bail, we stayed at home. The police used to come at home looking for me they were asking me about my fellow comrades but I told them that I've nobody that I'm working with. They told me that they will get me one day because I'm difficult. After that they said myself and together with the comrades, they said to us we knew that we have killed a person. Then they told us that we will meet in court. A certain policeman called Kavangwa was the one person making those accusation.    Whilst we were attending that court case in 1987 on  5th of May, that is where we were sentenced for death it was myself, Modise and Thomas Makobele we were taken to Ryghond we stayed in 1986 in Ryghond from 1987. They are not with me now and that is disturbing me because those police I want to know them, why did they take me to prison, because I nearly died for something that I didn't know.

DR RANDERA: Thank-you Mr Chauke. I just want to ask you a few questions. The charges that were laid against you, what, that you were sentenced to death for was it just the burning and the death of this young woman or also possessing arms?

UNKNOWN: That's true Sir.

DR RANDERA: Which one, sorry, just killing the young woman?                   MR CHAUKE: They said to you we killed somebody.

DR RANDERA: O.K. Were there other deaths in Stinkwater of a similar nature or was that the only one?  Were there, were there  other people burnt to death at the time? What was happening in Stinkwater that this young woman was burnt to death?

UNKNOWN: Many people were burnt to death but I don't know how many.

DR RANDERA: And this question of you having arms in your house? Were you a member of the ANC underground at the time?

UNKNOWN: I was a member of UDF underground.

DR RANDERA: Can you just tell us a little more about that, why do you say the UDF underground, because UDF was a legal organisation?

UNKNOWN: The time when ANC was banned I was a member of UDF. UDF was active then before ANC was unbanned. My friends were members of Umkonto We Sizwe.

DR RANDERA: Were you talking about Daisy, your other friends?                 MR CHAUKE: I'm talking about other friends.

DR RANDERA: Who were sentenced to death with you?

UNKNOWN: No sir.

DR RANDERA: You also mentioned towards the end of your statement that there were another couple who were arrested with you. Sarah and Stephen Magaja, now they were given bail before you because they could afford the money, but they were not sentenced with you, what happened to them?

UNKNOWN: Sarah Magaja was released, because whilst we were on trial her child died, and we were left with her husband  and he got a bail and then he was fined R800,00 and two years suspended sentence.

DR RANDERA: Mr Chauke can I just understand, you were sentenced, certainly you were tortured before your, before your sentence, and then you were sentenced to death,  what is your expectation from the Truth Commission?

UNKNOWN: The Truth Commission may help me in other way than again it should, it should help those people who are now maybe and because we were struggling together until that we were liberated and then we have now a new government, and the government has went back to the hands of the black people.

DR RANDERA: Let me put the question another way. Have you come to ask to try and clear your name once and for all, because you still believe to-day that you were sentenced unfairly?

UNKNOWN: That is true Sir.

DR RANDERA: Then what do you do now? I know you have two children, what is your work?

UNKNOWN: I'm not working.

DR RANDERA: I have no further questions, thank-you chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Chauke on, you were found guilty of murder in that court case, on what did they base this, were there witnesses? When you were tortured did they make you sign a confession, what did the judge or magistrate, I would imagine that it is a judge in this case, on what basis did he find you guilty?

UNKNOWN: I was found guilty because those I was with were those who, its that what its based on as an accessory to the fact, but I said I was not with them on that day.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was it a under this, what they refer to as common cause? You say that you were part of a group responsible for setting this woman alight.

UNKNOWN: Yes that's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were there witnesses, were there people who  actually said, pointed you out and said, that you were part of this group, or how could he come to that conclusion?

UNKNOWN: When I remember the state witnesses said I was there.

RUSSELL ALLY: So there was state witnesses, were these, who were the state witnesses, people who had also been involved and decided to become state witnesses or who are these state witnesses?

UNKNOWN: No, we were arrested three of us, those people who were bought by the police, because this, this lady whom they said were burned, she was staying in that house where the state witnesses were staying.

RUSSELL ALLY: So those state witnesses they claimed that they had seen you and the other people who were with you, that's what they said?

UNKNOWN: Yes that's true.

RUSSELL ALLY: And did you ever make a confession, you are saying that you were tortured, that you were (indistinct) that you were kicked, did they make you sign anything while you were in jail, confessing to, to being present, or to being involved?

UNKNOWN: When I was tortured and assaulted I did confess that I was there, but I told them that I will, but they said that I should make a statement to them though I told them I would make my statement in court.

RUSSELL ALLY: But you didn't, did you sign any statements? Did you make any written statements? which you didn't sign?

UNKNOWN: Yes that's true I did sign that statement, because I was injured then.