Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

MR MKHIZE: No, that is not the case.  I did not understand it that way.  What I know is that the ANC - for example we as the IFP were declared as a stumbling block.  They regarded us as an obstacle in achieving our goal by reaching the Boer or getting at the Boers.  For example - looking at the Bantustans and the system, this I did speak about yesterday and the fact that we allowed our children to continue with Bantu education whereas they were saying, people should not go to schools, schools should be banned until liberation was acquired.
	We differed in so many things, but, if I were to state here before this Commission, I can see the divide and rule strategy that was being used by the Boers so that we can kill one another because the Boers succeeded in setting the IFP against the ANC so that they could be free.  They kept us at a arms length distance so that we could fight among ourselves without getting any nearer to them.  They succeeded in doing that especially here in KwaZulu Natal because the IFP here was strong with their leader.  I do understand that very well but we can also say that there was nothing the IFP could have done if the ANC had declared us as enemies that had to be attacked. 	We also heard here before this Commission certain truthful revelations were made that the ANC did plan that Inkosuthelezi should be attacked, that is no secret it is a known fact.  It is also a fact that the IFP also lost about four hundred of their leaders not knowing who killed them without referring actually to the followers, just ask yourself who killed these people and therefore all of these suspicions that the ANC declared the IFP as a stumbling block is actually confirmed.  They wanted to get rid of the IFP first so that they could move on to their enemy and therefore nobody could just sit back whilst being attacked because life is the first priority.
	Inkatha was therefore forced to do something to defend themselves and the situation worsened.  I do not want to believe that Inkatha's initial aim was to fight in the manner in which they did with the ANC but the situation worsened and they attacked each other.  That is not what they had initially planned but they were forced by the circumstances and the plots that were being carried out, ANC plots to obliterate Inkatha completely.
ADV. MOTATA: Would you say now, Mr Mkhize, that was the propaganda fed to you or that is a situation you realised yourself, taking your advice that we should not theorise, I want to at this instance not to theorise the tenor of your answer to me is that you said you sort of realised the situation - is that what you saw yourself was obtaining
or was that what you were fed?

MR MKHIZE: I cannot deny that that is part of the indoctrination because I don't know how much propaganda was used by the Boers.  Remember that the SADF was the one that was also equally involved.  The Nats were behind this and I cannot disown the kind of propaganda that was fed to me by the Boers and as I was growing in politics I started seeing things differently but I can say the Boers succeeded because that was now being added to by what was happening on the ground.  I did see schools burned down by the UDF and I saw people being necklaced, people were petrolled and necklaced and thus the propaganda for the Boers succeeded because of the things that were happening at the time.
	Councillors for example were regarded as IFP members because they belonged to the KwaZulu Government.  I did see them being burned in front of me.  I did see people made to drink the soaps that they had bought from shops.  I did them made to drink those sunlight liquid soaps and the UDF was responsible for this.  What I am saying here is that the Boers propaganda was exacerbated by what was exactly happening in the community at the time and that made us to believe, thus the propaganda of the Boers succeeded.
ADV. MOTATA: Let's come back home to eSikhawini.  You told us that within that district there were five police stations for instance, did I hear you correctly?

MR MKHIZE: Yes, that is correct.
ADV. MOTATA: Did each and every police station have it's own Station Commander?

MR MKHIZE: Yes.  That is correct.
ADV. MOTATA: In other words where you were stationed you were independent of the other police stations?

MR MKHIZE: I was stationed at D.C.- District Commandant - in other words I had the privilege and the right to move around all the five police stations.  I was not stationed at the eSikhawini Police Station.  I would move round to all these different police stations at Umbumalanga and eSikhawini as well.
ADV. MOTATA: Now why would you for instance say to Brigadier Msemela I need legal and financial assistance until we are given assurance that where you are you wouldn't be arrested because you and in this area, occupied a certain hierarchy which you could not be arrested.  Why did you want that from Brigadier Msemela?

MR MKHIZE: Would you please repeat the question?
ADV. MOTATA: Why did you want the assurance, I'll rephrase it the other way, why did you want some assurance from Brigadier Msemela where he said for instance "don't worry" when you wanted legal and financial support, you recall you saying that?  That is on the 15th?

MR MKHIZE: I did not say to Msemela that I wanted financial assistance and assurance that I would not be arrested, I did not say that to Brigadier Msemela.
ADV. MOTATA: To whom did you want that assurance for, let's get it from you.

MR MKHIZE: What I said was that Romeo is the one who wanted what you have just explained and I then arranged to take Romeo to make those arrangements and I then explained how it happened.  I did not say that I went to Msemela for assurance and assistance.
ADV. MOTATA: Let's leave it for a second.  Are you saying that Romeo, when you wanted this type of assistance it's when he was now being pressed with the robbery charge?

MR MKHIZE: No nothing had happened at the time.  I was still busy persuading him to be part of the syndicate that we were starting.  That was not connected to his arrest.
ADV. MOTATA: Let's look at your visiting the shebeen where there was an unpleasant scuffle, do you recall when you had a fight at the shebeen?

MR MKHIZE: Yes I do.
ADV. MOTATA: You went to that shebeen knowing fully well that was an ANC territory or shebeen?

MR MKHIZE: Yes that is correct.
ADV. MOTATA: Because you were now doing covert operations for the IFP under the guise of being a policeman, did you think people knew that that was just a facade?

MR MKHIZE: I did explain yesterday what I was doing placed my life in a dangerous position.
ADV. MOTATA: And when you went there when you knew the shebeen was patronised as you said by the UDF or ANC allied people didn't you regard your visitation there as provocation to the ANC or UDF?