Amnesty Hearings — Potchefstroom — UNKNOWN

UNKNOWN: I proceed now before you members of the Committee and I will be representing the next applicant as  well.

UNKNOWN: s s

UNKNOWN: William, yourself and your co-accused were convicted and sentenced for having committed the offence of murder and two attempted murders on the 10th September  1993 by Potchefstroom Circuit Court.  Do you confirm that?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I agree, we did do that.

UNKNOWN: I believe at the time of the commission of this offence you were a member of the African National Congress Youth League, (indistinct) Branch, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: : Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: I believe that being a member of the Youth Congress you were serving in your capacity as member of that structure's defence unit, is  that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: And I believe that when these offences were committed you were acting in that capacity as  such, of being a member of the defence unit, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: It is recorded that the  person that you killed on the 24th December 1990, was David Maseko.   Who is this David Maseko, the one that you killed, David Maseko?

UNKNOWN: The person that we killed was David Mayeko, not David Maseko.  David Mayeko was a State witness.  David Mayeko that we killed was a member of the gangster group called vigilantes that was harassing the activities in the location and victimising all activities and killing people around the location and they burnt our house as well and they burnt all our property in the house.
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UNKNOWN: /...
2	MR FALTEIN

UNKNOWN: David Mayeko, did you know him personally?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I knew him because we grew up together in  the location.

UNKNOWN: Do you know him to be the leader of this vigilante gang as you now allege?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was the  leader of the vigilante gangsters.

UNKNOWN: And when you killed him, was it for any  other  reason that you felt that he deserved to be killed?  What persuaded you to kill David Mayeko?

UNKNOWN: Because David Mayeko was a member of the gangster vigilante.  We fled  away for a long  time from our homes  and spending  too much time away from our families and running away from the police.  On the 24th December  when we got there, we got the message that David Mayeko was looking for us.   As we went out of the street with Themba Nqobe we met David Mayeko in the vigilante group and then he took out a gun and he chased us around.  We jumped two streets.  When we tried to go back and then accused  No 2 started shooting him.  It was not his intention to shoot him.  He was just   trying to scare him away.

UNKNOWN: I would like you to listen to what  I  will be asking you and I'll ask you to concentrate on the question.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you please ask him to speak a little bit slower.  I think they have got trouble in keeping up with him.

UNKNOWN: Please speak slow so that everybody here can hear what you are saying.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I will do so.

UNKNOWN: This David Mayeko, the one that you have just 1	described/...
2	MR FALTEIN
described having been the leader  of this vigilante group,
this vigilante group that you have just mentioned, is it a group that was harassing, maiming, killing in the Khutsong Township at that time, is that what you are trying to tell this Committee?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it was a group that was killing and raping people without any reasons.

UNKNOWN: And you are telling this Committee that because they were committing  such  atrocious acts you from the defence unit of the African National Congress, the youth section, you were acting in defence of the Khutsong community and yourself.  Is that what ....(intervention).

JUDGE WILSON: That's not what he said.  You are putting words into his mouth.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Judge.  Is that the impression that you are trying to convey to this Committee?

UNKNOWN: : Yes, that's what I am trying to say.  They were killing people in the location.

UNKNOWN: So I believe that between yourselves, by "yourselves" I mean the defence units and this vigilante group, what was happening at the time it was like a straight battle between the two groups, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: It was a political thing.  They used to kill all activists in the location if you are affiliated to the ANC, they will kill you with the police.

UNKNOWN: I believe that you yourself, as you are sitting there, you at one stage during that conflict did become a victim as you were shot at, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: And I believe that during that conflict as
well you had your parents' house burnt to ashes, is that 
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3	MR FALTEIN
correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes,  my parents' house was burnt.

UNKNOWN: And I believe the alleged perpetrators of these acts included the deceased and this vigilante group, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

ADV DE JAGER: Did you in fact see them doing the burning?

UNKNOWN: Yes,  I saw them, but at that night I was away sleeping at my brother's place.  I was not at home.   They were seen by my sister who was at school.

JUDGE WILSON: So you did not see, you merely heard something.

UNKNOWN: When I got home in that morning I was told that I  must come and see how our house was burnt.

UNKNOWN: You may not have seen him personally  burning your parents' home, but you are convinced that the act was committed by the vigilante group, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is so, because  even my sister saw what they did.  He saw Thomas Vundla(?)  who was one of the vigilante groups.

UNKNOWN: And this David Mayeko, the deceased, you know him to be the leader of this vigilante group, is that so?

UNKNOWN: Yes, David Mayeko was a leader of  the vigilante group.  He was  always there whenever they were to hit.

UNKNOWN: You mentioned in your statement that this group under the leadership of the deceased was always acting in  collusion with the police, is that so?

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is so.

UNKNOWN: And the police who were acting in collusion with this gang, you mention them in your statement as well,
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4	MR FALTEIN
is that so?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I did mention all the police in the statement.

UNKNOWN: And these policemen in your statement you are saying  they were always with the deceased.

UNKNOWN: Yes, they always moved around with - they used to go to 685 where all the vigilante group used to stay.

UNKNOWN: I want you now to describe to this Committee how and where was this David Mayeko killed?

UNKNOWN: David Mayeko was killed nearby 685 where he was staying, on the corner of the third street in the squatter camp.

UNKNOWN: The day he was killed, how was he killed, where were you?

UNKNOWN: When David Mayeko died I was there.  We were standing on the corner of the street.  It just happened a distance away from where we were.

UNKNOWN: And then what happened?  Where was he at  the time?

UNKNOWN: He had fallen down next to some water stream,  but we didn't notice because we walked away.

UNKNOWN: Was he shot or what happened?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he was shot.

UNKNOWN: Did you shoot him?

UNKNOWN: No, he wasn't shot by me.   He was shot by John Themba Ncube.

UNKNOWN: And he was with this person who shot him.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I was with him.

UNKNOWN: This defence unit that you were a member thereof, can you describe to this Committee how did it come that they were formed?  What I want to know is whether was
1	it/....
5	MR FALTEIN
it under a particular instruction of someone in the leadership or ....

UNKNOWN: It was just formed but there was no leader
because in Nkutsong there was violence and there was no one who was leading and there were too many people in the location and mainly it was the police and the vigilante group.

UNKNOWN: This murder was committed under the auspices of your organisation, isn't it?

UNKNOWN: No, it was under the ANC.