Amnesty Hearings — Richards Bay — 1998-04-23

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) were you paid and how were you paid and by whom?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Mr M Z Khumalo sometimes came to the camp towards the end of the month and he would give us four hundred rands  because we didn't have any need at the time because we were provided with things. The place was lonely and there was nothing to be done. Therefore we received this money to buy things such as polish for the boots and buying ourselves alcohol in the camp.

MR STEWART: Do you remember Mr Dlamini how long this training lasted?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: It took seven months.

MR STEWART: And how many approximately were part of that group that was being trained?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: We were two hundred.

MR STEWART: And when you returned there was some kind of ceremony to welcome you back. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do remember that.

MR STEWART: And that was near Ulundi if I am not mistaken?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: What happened at that ceremony?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: On our return Mr Buthelesi came at the camp, the Mpumane Camp. The camp from which we departed to Caprivi. He received us and a cow was slaughtered and we were appreciated that we have completed our training and back. We had meals and had drinks.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini was some traditional type of muti prepared?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes there was a traditional doctor but I cannot remember his name. After the beast was slaughtered certain things were put together and sprinkled on us, everybody who was present had this thing sprinkled on them.

MR STEWART: Mr Dlamini shortly thereafter you went for some advanced training at Venda. Who went on that advanced training?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: After some time I also received this training in Venda. I was now dealing with things such as how to kidnap a person, how to torture a person, how to use, what to use to elicit information from a person.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) offensive group?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: And was it conducted by the same people who had been training you in the Caprivi?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: And who instructed you to go and undergo this training?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: It was Mr M Z Khumalo.

MR STEWART: Was it also Mdladuna?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I would not know whether they communicated about this but I received instruction from M Z Khumalo.

MR STEWART: Did you receive any training there in Venda in politics?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: We would wake up in the morning and practise what I have already explained as to how to kidnap a person and many other things that can be done to elicit information from a person. In politics I would say those are things that we discussed on our own because we were already knew what the situation was like.

MR STEWART: And what did you understand your role would be in KwaZulu Natal when this training was finished?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: At the time the political situation was tense here in KwaZulu and therefore my training gave me capacity at any rate of being attacked by the ANCI should be present.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) Venda you then had some time off and then you were posted to a particular place. Where was that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I was given a short leave and then taken to Hammersdale where I spent some time. And there was discussion as to how we were going to operate. And Mdladuna, Doctor Luthuli was contacted and we then were given appointment certificates for the police.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) at that time you became part of the KZP?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: Did you work in uniform?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: No I used my civilian clothes because I was a detective.

MR STEWART: And for the benefit of the committee, is it right that Mpumalanga and Hammersdale are part of the same area?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: Then Mr Dlamini you were involved for some time at Mpumalanga and Hammersdale area and also at some time you underwent training at Koeberg by the SAP and so on. But then I am not going to deal with that now. As we have explained with the others as well. I am going to deal here with what you were involved in at Esikoweni. Now it happened that you had, had to go into hiding because you were being looked for by the police and you were then at the police barracks in Ulundi. And I am now for the benefit of the committee I am now on page 390 paragraph 36. I am talking now Mr Dlamini about the middle of 1992. Where you say in your statement you were approached by Mr M R Mkhize of the IFP office at Ulundi. And he informed you that you have been instructed by M Z Khumalo to stay at his house in Mpangeni. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do remember that.

MR STEWART: Did you then go and stay at Mr Mkhize's house at Mpangeni?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: Will you explain to the committee how you came to know Mrs Mbuyazi and how you came to be involved with a group that Pina Mhkize, Romeo Mbambo and Ijoni Hlongwane had told us about over the last week and a half?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I arrived at Esikoweni and I was residing at J1 at Mr M R Mkhize's place. I was from Ulundi then. On arrival the situation here was tense. There was a lot of fighting going on. I stayed in this house in J1. I am not sure whether it was J1 or J2 but I think it is J2. I did not know Mrs Mbuyazi and others. Mr Mkhize is the who explained about these people to me and one day he took me to them. To Mrs Mbuyazi in particular. And he said to Mrs Mbuyazi: "Here is another member here. He is a Caprivian. He came from Ulundi." And Mrs Mbuyazi was thrilled. And after some time on looking around in the area I saw Ijoni Hlongwane. I know Ijoni Hlongwane from Mpumalanga, Hammersdale. I didn't know that he was at Esikoweni. And after some time I also saw Mkhize, the very same person who trained with us in Caprivi. I didn't know that he was based here at Esikoweni. That is how we met with Mkhize and Mrs Mbuyazi introduced to me by R M Mkhize.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) how did it happen that you became involved with them in planning and executing attacks?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: They used to tell me how J1 was and how the IFP was and which areas were predominantly ANC. Especially J1, that is one section that is closer to J2 and they used to tell me quite a lot about this section, complaining about comrades who were giving them trouble. I then agreed to join them for those reasons. But I started by phoning Delatholo Luthuli at Ulundi and indicated to him what situation we had Esikoweni because there was fighting. I wanted to know from him what we should do. And he then said that, that is your duty for which you were trained. Continue and do exactly what you were trained to do. Indeed I joined these people.

MR STEWART: (...indistinct) affidavit that there were a certain number of people who were to be targeted. Do you remember that?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes I do remember that.

MR STEWART: And it has been described as a hit list. Is that right?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: Yes that is correct.

MR STEWART: And did you actually see a written list with these names on it?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I cannot remember very well whether I did see such a list or not but people that were spoken about quite a lot were the ANC. Those were people to be attacked.

MR STEWART: You say in paragraph 38 on page 391 that there was such a list and you seem to indicate that it was a actual written list that you had seen. Is it right that at that time you believed there to be such a written list?

DAVID ZHELI DLAMINI: I thought so, that there was a list but no.