Amnesty Hearings — Welkom — 1998-11-17

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Like I've already explained, I was not prepared to address that Court, and the evidence given by Kele was, I can say that he was used by the police in order that we should be convicted.
	Concerning Abraham Kele's evidence again, he was not the only person that gave evidence and his evidence contradicted the other person by the name of Tshabalala.  He is the person who said the evidence given by Mr Kele was just pure lies.

MR SESELE: Mr Mohomane, how do you explain the incidents that Sergeant Makau is the investigating officer according to the evidence, and you happen to be involved when he is shot to death?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: The question that he was the investigating officer, it was news to me, I heard that for the first time in Court, but I explained that I was never arrested by Mr Makau, I was arrested by Mr Pitso and Mr Makau was the person who was actually handling my case.  I fail to understand how could I kill that person for the case which I've already that I did not know and I was acquitted on that case because the Court realised that really I did not understand and I didn't know about that case.
	The armed robbery case, if I remember well we were taken to an identification parade and no-one pointed me out.  That is why the Court acquitted me on that armed robbery case you're talking about.

MR SESELE: Mr Mohomane, I put to you that the killing of Sergeant Makau and Sergeant Mosebi was an attempt by you and the other applicants to get rid of Sergeant Makau as the investigating officer in your case of armed robbery which was then pending.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: No, I disagree with you, Sir, because if he was the person who was investigating my case I would have known then.  If I wanted to kill him I would kill him with the people who were my co-accused in that case.  Like I've already explained, on that day of the incident we had to kill him because he was a policeman.  If we would find 15 or 10 in that kombi we would have killed them but unfortunately only two people appeared.
	And to give you more information like I've already explained, those people while they were having their meals in that restaurant, the report that we got was that there were many policemen in that ...(indistinct) we were surprised when we saw only two policemen coming.  So I do not agree with what you are saying to me.

MR SESELE: Mr Mohomane, I further put to you that your killing of the two deceased was not politically motivated at all.

ISAAC MOHOMANE: When you say it was not politically motivated, the killing of those two policemen, like I've already explained I disagree with you because I didn't carry out this operation with the people I was attending this case regarding the armed robbery.

MR SESELE: You said amongst others your commander, Simon Mofokeng instructed you only to kill the policemen and not to disarm them, is that right?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: He never said that we should kill a policeman, he said we should kill policemen but we should not take their weapons so that the message should be clear that the attack was politically motivated.  If this was just a criminal act we would have taken their weapons.

MR SESELE: One the charges against you was these two or murders and other charges were related to possession of ammunition and firearms, is that right?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: That's correct.

MR SESELE: And after the shooting of Sergeant Makau and Sergeant Mosebi, did you remove weapons from them?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: No, Sir, we never took their weapons because the order was clear that we should not take their weapons, therefore we never took their weapons.  The only weapons that we had in our possession were our own weapons.

MR SESELE: Thank you, Mr Chair, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SESELE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Sesele.  Mr Mapoma, do you have any questions to ask the witness?

MR MAPOMA: Yes, Chair, just a few.
	Mr Mohomane, do I understand it that the SDUs did not have a supply of weapons from the ANC or from any other source and for them to attain weapons they have to disarm the enemy?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: That's correct.

MR MAPOMA: And now how do you reconcile this order of not taking the weapons from the enemy with the standing policy of the SDUs then that they must disarm the enemy?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: It is true that we had to arm other members of the SDU with these weapons that we disarm from the police but the order that came from the commander was that if I feel that my unit needs other weapons I should contact him, and he is the only person who will give that instruction that we should go and disarm the police.  But on that day the mission was not to disarm the people, that is why he issued this order that we should not disarm them because the aim of this operation was to deliver this message to the apartheid government that what the police were doing to the community, if they continue with that then their days would be numbered.  That's my explanation.

MR MAPOMA: You will agree with me that that particular order was quite unusual regarding the operations of the SDUs, the one to kill the police and not take the weapons?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I do not agree with you because as a member of the SDU everything that I would do I would not take my own decision, I would have to consult with my commander, we'd have to sit down and discuss and he'll be the only person that would give out the instruction.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, Mr Mohomane, we've heard that, you've said it before, but what Mr Mapoma's asking you is, do you agree that the order that Mofokeng gave you was an unusual order?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: No, I do not agree with him.

DR TSOTSI: If you had taken the weapons from the police, would that not have registered to the government that you were in fact fighting against the police?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Like I've already explained that the order of that day was very clear, that we should not take weapons on that particular day.  So what I was doing was just to carry out the instructions that we should not take weapons, we should just shoot them so that the message should be clear to the then government.

DR TSOTSI: You agree don't you, that the message would have been clear to the government even if you had taken the weapons from the police?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: I do not agree with you, if we took their weapons the message would not be clear but like I've already said, the message was clear that we should not take the weapons so that the government would know that we were just sending a message.

MR MAPOMA: Now when did you pass standard 10?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: If I remember well it was in 1990 when I passed my standard 10.

MR MAPOMA: So it is only thereafter that you joined the ANC?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: You know that our standard 10 results we get in January, so I waited for those results but while I was still a member of COSAS I was also a supporter of the ANC at school.  I became a card carrying member of the ANC in January 1990.

MR MAPOMA: Now in the SDUs if I understand it, you will correct me if I'm wrong, you say Mr Mofokeng was a commander of the SDUs throughout the Free State, is this so?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: He was the Chief of Staff of the SDU in the Free State.

MR MAPOMA: And there must have been a commander of your local SDUs, is this so?

ISAAC MOHOMANE: Comrade Craig was also the commander.  He was also responsible for training the members of the SDU, and then he would give us the powers to go out and form our own units.  He was our commander, so when I go to the offices of the ANC I will speak to him in that area where I lived.

MR MAPOMA: Sir, what I want to find out is the command structure of the SDUs under which you were operating.  If comrade Craig was that commander who was overseeing the Orange Free State as a Province, there must have been a commander immediately above you and not him directly, is it not so?