Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-10-25

MS T MAYER: I did not want to disturb you, may I lead you with questions?   You moved away from your place and you stayed next to the road, you were helped and given a tent.   How long was that?

WITNESS:   It was two weeks.   We were staying for two weeks next to the road.

MS T MAYER: What helped you move from that place?

WITNESS:   The Council of Churches, Daikonia offered us some refuge.  They took us to Brighton Beach.

MS T MAYER: How long did you stay there?

WITNESS:   We stayed there, but the boers were always phoning us and asking what are the baboons doing there.   And we did not feel safe.

MS T MAYER: What sort of place is that Brighton Beach?

WITNESS:  It was a double storey house.   I don't know whose house it was, but I think it belonged to the church.

MS T MAYER: You also speak about a member of parliament, Mr Mhlongo, from Mapumulo.

WITNESS:   When we were staying at Ntuzuma Training, that is the forest, Shabalala came at night on a Monday.   He was driving a car and he was being escorted, they stood by the road and the house was illuminated outside but inside it was dark.   They went away and came back in the morning, and Shabalala told us that he had come during the night and that he foresaw that we were going to shoot him because he did not know why we had left Lindelani and he knew nothing about our leaving Lindelani.   I told him that he was supposed to know because Amabutho did not just act all by themselves, they were given specific instructions to do certain things.  Whenever people have been pointed out to them, they would go to attack those particular persons.   Then Mhlongo who was an MP from Mapumulo, Mhlongo came to me in the forest where I was staying.  he said he had been sent by Buthelezi to come and ask us as to why we were staying in the forest, then I explained it to him.   Then it was said that the minister had said that we should move away from that place, we should take the children and he wanted us to move to Section G in KwaMashu.   I declined the offer because we are not the first ones who were being harassed by members of Amabutho and some lost their lives and we do not know how.   And I said to him I totally decline the offer because I did not trust them.   Then we moved to Brighton Beach and we could not stay there because of the telephone calls that we kept on receiving.  And Reverend Shembe said I should go back home.   Then we went to Shembe's place, that's where we stayed.

MS T MAYER: Let's come to the date of October 1986.   That's where we went to Samora's funeral.   When we came back from Samora's funeral, we discovered that we were not quite accepted because we were from Samora's funeral.  Then on the 11th of December, as a person who was recruiting the youth to join MK, then on the morning of the 11th Mrs Mbatha came to my place in the morning and she had come to ask whether there was any person who was going to Swaziland.   I said to her I was not sure but I knew that there was a group of ten which was going to Swaziland.   So, she wanted to take them with because she wanted to give them some messages and some certain things, so that they could take them to Swaziland because she did not have money.   We made arrangements to meet at a certain place just before the boys had to go.   Now, when I was standing there, waiting for the youth to come and get some money from me, they took the money.   They made a loose change and we took them to Durban Station and I gave them certain things that they had to take to Swaziland.   And I told one of the youths that they were going to go with Mrs Mbatha, as well as Ngcaba.  I warned him to tell the other youths and I did not want them to go the same time.   Now, I wanted - because I avoided raising suspicion.   They got into the kombi one by one and I had already given Mrs Mbatha to pay the driver.

MS T MAYER: Who is Mbatha?

WITNESS:   Mrs Mbatha always used to help me whenever we were getting youths who had to skip through the border.   The youths went on that very same night.   It was going to be the morning of the 12th the following day.   Then they came and they took my husband with.   Thereafter they came to fetch me.   When I got there, they said I should write my biography, as to who I am, how involved am I with the ANC.   Basson stressed that if I didn't talk, I was going to sit on the cement up till such time that I write whatever they wanted.   I was made to sleep on the cement and I ended up having arthritis the whole of my body, because it was said that my bones had got cold.

MS T MAYER: How long did you stay in gaol?

WITNESS:   I stayed for six months.

MS T MAYER: At that time did they ill-treat you?

WITNESS:   They interrogated me and I was being tied to chairs.  They asked me about Samora Machel's death, as to how his ... (inaudible) ... were and they said I should explain in detail as to what had happened and they asked me whether I knew how he got the accident.   But what traumatized me was that at the time I was in solitary confinement Mr Albert came to tell me that I was very lucky, because they had fetched a certain man to come and testify and they had killed him.    Did you know Shadrack Mapumulo?   ---   Yes, I knew Shadrack Mapumulo because I was working with him.   From there my health deteriorated.   I do not know why they were saying this, and I found that it was true, they had actually killed Shadrack Mapumulo, because we could speak with certain criminals and they told me that Shadrack Mapumulo had died.

MS T MAYER: In your statement you also mention and specified certain things that they used to do.

WITNESS:   They would take me to Bayhead and I would have my hands handcuffed to my back.  I was not allowed to have fresh clothing for change.   Even when I was standing and when I was menstruating, they would not allow me to have sanitary pads, and they told me that I should go to the toilet.  I stayed in solitary confinement and my child at that time was sucking, I was breastfeeding, and I could not have any contact with my family.

MS T MAYER: You said they were abusing you physically?

WITNESS:   They would tie my hands to my back and my dress was pleated and they would fondle me in whatever part of the body that they wanted to and I couldn't do anything because my hands were tied to the back.

MS T MAYER: How long did this take place?

WITNESS:   Whenever they took me for interrogation, they used to do that.   And I ended up telling them that I did not know anything about the boys who escaped.   I ended up taking my clothes and putting them immersing them in the water and they would come and get my clothes wet, that was when they stopped interrogating me.

MS T MAYER: Did you recognise any of your torturers?