Human Rights Violation Hearings — Johannesburg — 1996-05-02

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to welcome the Premier of this Province, the Honourable Tokyo Sexwale.  It's sometimes very difficult to remember that these are now are Premiers when you think of where they come from and where we come from, but he is our Premier and it gives considerable hope that someone as young as himself should be Premier of the premier province of our country and be doing such an outstanding job of work.  It gives very great hope for our country and shows the depth of quality leadership that we do have.   I will allow you to clap him as he comes up.

MR SEXWALE: We thought we should break out of our schedules.  It is correct to come and humble ourselves here, to recognise the work that is being done by this Commission. ...(tape ends) ...with the reality of the pain of the past and of course, in welcoming the Commission here to this province, having seen part of the work done in Eastern Cape and Western Cape last week, we also came therefore to humble ourselves under the tears of the mothers whom we know, the friends, the children, many of the people who felt the brunt of the pain as we were hunted and they had to answer, waar is hy?  We thought it should be their turn to speak first and not ourselves, we thought is correct for us to come and hear in silence this time the screams, the begging for mercy as electricity, sjambok, knobkierrie was tearing both the human body and soul.  All these things in exile and underground in prison we did experience, but the question is, are we prepared to come to terms with our pain with the past?  Are we prepared not just to hear the truth but to forgive, to reconcile?
 In many ways I was a victim, physically we went through heavy torture, we saw people falling, we could not pick them up and we had to go.  Some are still in unmarked graves.  Maybe everything is exemplified by the blood and the pool running from the head of a Chris Hani lying on a pavement, maybe that's the time when you are called upon to come to terms with your country.  So we have come here to humble ourselves and to hear other people coming to terms  with that horror of the past, so that when you meet it in the future you recognise it and you can say hold, hold,  as Macbeth says.  I therefore as Premier of the province would like to welcome the Commission here and to say a last word.   I was an underground fighter, a soldier for freedom.  There was a time we thought that by now we'd be sitting and cutting necks and putting people on the firing line.  There was a time when we thought we're going to solve what you are doing here with a lot of gunfire and punishment, in seeking vengeance, in avenging, but we have come here to be disciplined that it's not gunfire, it's not retribution, it's not hatred that will solve it.  It is ordinary people coming forward and saying, I am prepared to hear the truth in its full ugliness but nevertheless I am prepared to forgive.  Perhaps our country in the next century will go down as a leader because I don't remember anywhere in the world where such a Commission was commissioned.
 I therefore want to welcome the effort that has begun and to sit back quietly amongst the people and to listen to the pain. I felt it but I want to see how others felt it.  You are welcome and we congratulate you and hope you do a good job out of it and trust and understand that the courage involved here is one that brings you very close to the border sometimes of hopelessness, but we have hope.  
 Thank you. I hope that was two minutes.

DR BORAINE: Well can we come to order please, there are a number of people that we would like to welcome very specially, we have representatives from a number of embassies that I haven't referred to thus far, that includes the Netherlands Embassy, the Norwegian Embassy and the Swedish Embassy, and I'm quite sure there are others, but as I am alerted to that I will mention you.  If you are amongst the ones I have just mentioned plus representatives from the YWCA and the World Conference on Religion and Peace, I think Reverend Mrs Matham, could you just stand for a moment please so that we can identify you and that the cameras can also identify you and the radio service that is covering these commissions. Will you just stand for a moment?  Thank you very much indeed, thank you.
 I understand also that Mrs Sparks is here, if you could please stand just for a second, upstairs downstairs?  There we go, nice to see you, thank you.
 Also and this is a particular pleasure to welcome George Bizos here, could he please stand if he's in the audience?  There we go, thank you very much.
 Chairperson we continue with the work of the Commission and we would like to call Elizabeth Floyd to the witness stand please.
 Could I just remind people that are attending the hearing that if you don't require a head set, please hand it on to someone else who may need it more than you. And if I could say to the staff, if there are additional head sets available, would you please make them available as widely as possible so that the maximum number of people can participate in a relaxed way and in an informed way as possible?
 Elizabeth Floyd, it's very nice to welcome you here to the Commission. You won't require the headphones, I don't think, so let me say immediately that we know and recognise that this is not an easy matter and that you must have thought very carefully about whether or not you wanted to do this, we are very grateful that your decision was to come. You will be talking to us about someone whose name is a household name in South Africa, Neil Agget, many of us knew him, certainly a number in this audience and a number on the Commission itself and remember in vivid detail his own death.  You will know it much better than anyone, so we are extremely grateful and we would invite you to relax as much as you can and to tell us your story.  
 Before you do so I must ask you if you will stand for the oath please.

ELIZABETH FLOYD: (sworn states)

DR BORAINE: My colleague Russel Ally will take over from me now. Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Welcome Liz and thanks for coming.  In 1981 trade unions were black members were eventually allowed to be recognised under the Labour Relations Amendment Act.  Although they were given this legislative recognition between September of 1981 and 1982 there was an intensive period of repression against Trade Unions and trade unionists for alleged involvement in political activities.  A number of them were detained, especially under the Terrorism Act of 1967.  Neil Hudson Agget was a medical doctor in Johannesburg and secretary of the Transvaal Branch of the African Food and Canning Workers Union.  On the 27th of November 1981, he was detained under the General Law Amendment Act and the Terrorism Act.
 After a period in Pretoria Prison Neil Agget was taken to John Vorster Square on the 11th of December where he remained until his death in the early hours of the 5th of February 1981.  He was found hanging from the bars of a steel grill in his cell tied by a ...(indistinct) coil.  I'm going to ask you now Liz to relate these events to the Commission?