Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

CHAIRPERSON: Now, after you have been the secretary of the System for some time you decided that you wanted to apply for a transfer to the Security Branch, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Why?

WITNESS:   I found the work that I was doing at that time, and the work revolving around the total onslaught, the revolutionary onslaught on the country, to be very interesting, and it was the type of work that I wanted to continue with.

CHAIRPERSON: But at the same time - I think this is clear from paragraph 33 - you were transferred to the police station of New Hanover.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you discuss this with the divisional commissioner?

WITNESS:   I did.

CHAIRPERSON: /Your

CHAIRPERSON: Your request to go to the Security Branch and the transfer which came through simultaneously.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And?

WITNESS:   He said that he required me to work at the New Hanover Police Station, and that I should take that transfer.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, when you arrived at New Hanover you then implemented the Joint Management System, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: In what capacity did you do that?

WITNESS:   I was ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: On local level, no, district level, the New Hanover district level.

WITNESS:   I was then the chairman of the - in Afrikaans term it's PBS, or the Local ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Management Centre.

WITNESS:   ... Management Centre.

CHAIRPERSON: The Afrikaans is Plaaslike Bestuur Sentrum.  The English would be Local Management Centre.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: How did you become the chairperson of that?

WITNESS:   It's a seat that's automatically allocated to certain police station, and then other surrounding police stations fall under that particular seat.

CHAIRPERSON: So you became the chairperson because of your capacity as station commander.  Who else served on the Local or Mini Joint Management Centre, district level, New Hanover?

WITNESS:   It would be the surrounding station commanders.

CHAIRPERSON: Surrounding station commanders.  Police officers of course?

WITNESS:   Police officers.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  And?

WITNESS:   Security Branch, the local

CHAIRPERSON: /Commando

CHAIRPERSON: Commando Unit of the SADF, if there was one, and then there would be other Government departments which were involved in work within certain areas, or within certain problem areas.  For example the Development Services Board or education.

CHAIRPERSON: And it would exclude justice, as you've indicated.

WITNESS:   And it would exclude the Justice Department.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, what was the function of this Mini or Local Joint Management Centre in New Hanover as you saw it?

WITNESS:   They had to deal with the issues of security, of the economical and the social problems that were within the areas, and find strategies to resolve those issues.

CHAIRPERSON: In paragraph 36 you have also provided a summary of how you saw your own duty within this Local or Mini Management Centre.  Would you just take the Committee through that please.

CHAIRPERSON: "Amongst my normal duties I also considered a prime duty to be my role within the Joint Management System or my role within the total strategy against the onslaught.  It was my duty to see to it that the UDF/ANC were countered effectively within my area.  This included favouring the IFP and groups not perceived to be State enemies."

CHAIRPERSON: Now, we will not deal with the next paragraphs except for paragraph 39, because in your notes we will come back to this just now.  But you have attached the judgment and the sentence of Mr Justice Wilson, the Vice-Chairperson of this Committee, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: /Now, we

CHAIRPERSON: Now, we will deal in a little detail with that and certain general remarks made towards the end of your evidence, but just to summarise, the Riot Unit on Friday, the 2nd of December, swept the area, as you set out in paragraph 43, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: What did that entail?

WITNESS:   It was in preparation for an offensive action that was going to take place against members of the UDF/ANC and their supporters, and it had been done with the help of constables.  I was instructed to assist with member from my station in cleaning up the area.

CHAIRPERSON: By?  Who gave you the instruction?

WITNESS:   By Major Terblanche.  He said that there wasn't a further inch of soil within the area to go to the ANC/UDF alliance, and that I must see to that.

CHAIRPERSON: We will come back to that also in a little more detail.  Now, you have set out in paragraph 49 what happened at the trial.  It's common cause, I am not going to lead your through that on page 16.  You have attached the judgment and the sentence.  You have also made two previous applications for indemnity, is that correct?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And you have attached the applications as annexures D and E.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, I think I can lead you on this.  The first application was not considered because you were a condemned prisoner and not serving a term of imprisonment.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Then the death sentences imposed by Mr Justice Wilson were commuted on 24 April 1994 by the then

CHAIRPERSON: /President,

CHAIRPERSON: President, and 30 years' imprisonment was substituted, is that correct.

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You did apply under the old Act, the '92 - the Further Indemnity Act of 1992.  That is the application marked annexure E in Volume III, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Now, what you have done is to, during more particularly the last year or two, to write certain notes, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did.

CHAIRPERSON: For purposes of this application.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And that was taken up from paragraph 55 on page 17 of your affidavit.

WITNESS:   Yes, Sir, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you just take the Committee through 55 and 56 please, as well as 57.

CHAIRPERSON: "The Constitution recognises a need for understanding, but not for vengeance, a need for "vuntu" but not for victimisation.  In the spirit of reconciliation, and for the purpose of applying for amnesty, I am prepared to make disclosures of the events leading up to the Trust Feed incident and further revelations.  The purpose is not that fingers can be pointed, but to demonstrate my willingness to contribute to the future of South Africa.  I do not want to be party to a new onslaught of mudslinging by political parties.  It took me over two years to free myself from a capsule of indoctrination and

CHAIRPERSON: /"beliefs."

CHAIRPERSON: "beliefs."

CHAIRPERSON: You speak of a capsule of indoctrination, we will deal with that, but can you recall when you were in death row you once discussed with me what you considered at that time to be the most pressing matter, namely your two medals?

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: You actually called me to the prison to discuss the question of the medals.  You were afraid that you would lose the medals.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you remember that I pointed out to you that you had 11 death sentences hanging over your head ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: ... and that the medals would be rather minor compared to that.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mitchell, I want you to deal with the question as to why the information was not disclosed by you before this application.  What was your attitude after you were arrested?  I think you've summarised it in paragraph 61.