Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-09

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: There Chief Commandant Kloppers told us that we're going to set up a roadblock and that we're going to look for illegitimate weapons, and there was also a blue light was given to Van der Schyff, Diedericks and Visser, because they would have been traffic officials.

MR PRINSLOO: And after you were at Martin's house, where did you go?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, we left.

MR PRINSLOO: Who did you drive with?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: I was in the white Sentra, together with Andre Visser, Martin van der Schyff, Kallie Meiring and myself, and Piet Matthew's, we were in the white Sentra, the rest were in the Mercedes, Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: And the Mercedes, was it in front or behind you?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: It was in front of us.

MR PRINSLOO: And while you were driving, was there any incidents taking place on the way there?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, Chairperson, whilst we were driving through the smallholdings, two blacks came out of one of the plots and the Sentra stopped and some of the men jumped out and assaulted the black people.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you partake in this?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: No.   Me and Meiring remained in the vehicle.

MR PRINSLOO: And afterwards you continued?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, after they got back to the car.

MR PRINSLOO: And where did you go from there?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: From there we went to the scene, Chairperson, Dora Crossing.

MR PRINSLOO: And at the Dora Crossing, what happened there?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Chairperson, there Meiring received the instruction to put us in specific posts or positions, considering the fact that he had experience with regards to roadblocks.   Me and Etienne, he placed us behind the chevron board.   Martin van der Schyff, Diedericks and Van der Schyff would have been the traffic officials, Visser had to place the blue light on the Sentra and made sure it worked, and Chief Commandant Kloppers and Martins would then drive out towards the Ventersdorp Road with the Mercedes in order to indicate to us the vehicles that we had to pull off.

MR PRINSLOO: While you were there, were vehicles stopped at that roadblock?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, that is correct, Mr Chairperson, various vehicles, three or four, were pulled off, the vehicles were searched, the people were asked to get out of the cars, they were asked what their political alliances were.    One of the vehicles, a Ford, which was full of people, at one stage they did not want to leave and we got the instruction from Chief Commandant Klopper to push this Ford bakkie, and that we did.

MR PRINSLOO: Was there something wrong with this bakkie?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, it did not want to start.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you help push?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, I did.

MR PRINSLOO: Can you tell the honourable committee regarding the Honda Ballade and the other vehicle that was stopped?   I see that it is 11 o'clock, I do not want to, would you like to adjourn at this stage?   Can I continue?

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed, yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Badenhorst, evidence was already given that a Honda Ballade and another vehicle was stopped at the roadblock.   Can you tell the committee what happened there?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: That is correct, Mr Chairperson.   Commandant Martins and Chief Commandant Klopper had once again drove out with the Mercedes to Ventersburg.   When they saw a suitable vehicle, in this case two vehicles, they turned around to come back and flashed the lights, or brightened the lights, so that we know that the vehicles behind them must be pulled off.   Chief Commandant Klopper and Commandant Deon Martins joined us with the Mercedes, but the two vehicles was about 200 or 250 metres they pulled off the road and they just stopped there and stood there for a while, and at that stage Commandant Martin and Chief Commandant Kloppers were already with us and they warned us that it looked suspicious for these two vehicles now suddenly that they see a blue light to pull off the road, and they warned us to be careful and to be aware.

MR PRINSLOO: And then?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Afterwards they drove again, we were still at our different positions, they stopped, the people were asked to get out of the vehicles, they did it, the vehicles were searched.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you take part in searching through the... (intervention).

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Etienne Visser and I stood for the whole time behind a chevron board which was next to the road.

MR PRINSLOO: So who searched, or the vehicles were searched?    And the occupants were, or sat next to the vehicles, was that an instruction?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And how did they sit, did they sit in a row, or in a group?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: There was an embankment, and it was a type of an embankment where they sat, otherwise they would have been uncomfortable, so they sat on the embankment next to the Chevron board.

MR PRINSLOO: Continue, what happened then?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Mr Chairperson, certain questions were put to them, as with the previous vehicles, where they come from, where they're going, what political party they belonged to.   Chief Commandant Klopper would tap someone over the head with a baton, because they clearly saw that we were from the AWB, we had our signs and clothes and uniforms on, and clearly they saw that the people were not very happy, and logically they were, or they had some resistance, they were resistant, and Mr Klopper just tapped them on the head to pacify them.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you hear what they answered?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Mr Chairperson, I did not hear to everyone, or listen to all the questions, but I did hear that it was said that some of them belonged to the ANC, but I did not hear what everybody said.

MR PRINSLOO: And what happened then?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Mr Chairperson, Meiring and Visser at one stage with the Mercedes drove back there where the vehicle stopped approximately 250 metres from where we were, to go and look if they maybe have dropped something off next to the road or if someone maybe, or someone is maybe hiding next to the road, but they came back and said that they only found a bag of ice or something.

MR PRINSLOO: Did they take anybody with them?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, they took some of the black with them.

MR PRINSLOO: If you say Visser, are you talking about Visser?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: It's Andre Visser.

MR PRINSLOO: It was Andre Visser, yes.  And did they bring that person back?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, they bring that person back.

MR PRINSLOO: And after that occurred, what happened then?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: After they came back, Commandant Deon Martin and Etienne Visser called us from behind the chevron board and then we formed a group, where he put it clearly to us that these people were the enemy, they were ANC members, and that this is the target.   He said that he will give the command shot, after which we must fire as well, we must shoot at the black people.

MR PRINSLOO: And what did you do then?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Mr Chairperson, we formed a line, Commandant shot, fired the first shot, and then we all fired our weapons.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you see it as an instruction or as a request?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Naturally it was an instruction or an order.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you shoot at the people?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: Yes, I did.

MR PRINSLOO: How many shots did you fire?

FREDERICK JACOBUS BADENHORST: I fired five shots.

MR PRINSLOO: And after you fired at the people, what happened then?