Human Rights Violation Hearings — George — 1996-06-19

MARY BURTON: Thank you, before we ask the witnesses to come forward to give their testimony, I would like to welcome everybody here this morning and to welcome particularly some of our special guests.
I see that we have Bishop Damant with us again this morning, you very welcome.  I am not sure whether the Mayor of George is here, he was yesterday and we were very glad to have him.
Then we have had other pastors and church leaders and we are very grateful indeed to them and to all of you for coming.  It is enormously important and part of the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that we should make very evident the events that we are talking about here and that they should be heard and recognised by as broad a cross section of the public as possible.  It is part of achieving that reconciliation for  which we aimed that we should be able to understand one another and our experiences.
I would also like to thank particularly people who have given us their help in setting up these hearings in George - we just welcome some more of the people who will be giving their testimony and their families.
We often say that the work of the Truth Commission can't be achieved without the help and support of the entire community and we are grateful for people who have come forward to support us - we think particularly of  [indistinct] who has helped us with some additional driving and will continue to do so.  Of Nadine and Mia who have been helping us in the kitchen to provide the sustenance of tea and coffee and meals and to all the people who helped with the background work that needs to be done.
We thank particularly the people who provide the sound service for us, we don't always make their life easy, but it is very important that you should all be able to hear what people have come to tell us.
We thank also the interpreters who day after day are providing a simultaneous translation of the stories and you will have the headsets I hope that will enable you to - to hear the translation.
The service is in the three different languages, I hope I have got the channels right, I think it's Channel 1, Afrikaans, Channel 2 is English and Channel 3 is Xhosa.
We are a little short of the headsets, so yesterday people were enormously helpful to one another and shared them when the various different languages were required.  So if you have people sitting next to you who don't have a headset and you get understand the language that is being spoken, please continue  to share them as needed.
We thank the South African Police Services for their protection of the building and the people involved and we thank the Press for their support and their coverage of these days.
I hope I  haven't left anybody out, but if I have, I'll have other opportunities to thank you  all.
I think we ready to begin with the first witness.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Yes madam Chair may  I call the first witness, Thozama Kobe.   It is customary for witnesses to start first by taking the oath, however any person who objects to taking the oath for any reason, shall make an affirmation instead of the oath.   Ms Thozama Kobe do you wish to make the oath.

MS KOBE: Yes.
THOZAMA KOBE Duly sworn states

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Ms Kobe's testimony will be facilitated by my colleague Ms Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Good morning Thozama, I would like you to take your earphones off, because I am going to speak Xhosa with you.  When I  am talking English you can use them,  Thozama I would  like you to tell us that what happened on March 1988 to your brother Andile Kobe.  
 Would you please tell us short and brief so that we can be clear of what happened.

MS KOBE: On March 1988 I was at home, he asked to go outside just to walk about, I just gave him the permission to do that, it was not even some seconds or minutes someone came inside and tell me that my brother has been hit by the police.  I couldn't take note of that, but he - the guy insist that telling me that he has been beaten by the police.
 I took a special car and follow to the direction where the incident had happened.  When we arrived there, he was not there, I just took his cap where he was lying and his watch was also there.  I went to the police station in Sandkraal, he was there when we arrived.  They were still hit - beating him.  Firstly he ran out to a dam - into a dam, one kitskonstabel came and fetched him out, they take him back to the small hall and they beat him again.  He was crying - asking what did I  do, no-one could listen to him.
 I tried my best to get inside, but some people outside, pleaded me not to  go inside.  Three of them were holding him in parts, they took him into the  van, they took him to the sea, throw him into the sea, we were following the car but unfortunately we couldn't get the direction.
 There were many of us who waited - I tried to call but there was no answer and we went back to the police station.  I asked the security, the whereabouts of Andile, he told me that he is in hospital.  I asked him how injured is he, and the man told me that if he is in hospital he has been badly injured.
 As we were in the hospital we tried to search him, but we couldn't find him.  It was around about four in the morning.  At six o'clock we went back to the police station and the hospital, we couldn't get any information - we went back to the hospital - we tried to search ward to ward and we couldn't even find him.  I find him at the last ward.  He was sleeping - breathing and he was still alive.
 They threw him into the sea but he was still alive, that was his luck.  When I  arrived at him, I just wanted to see how  badly was he injured.  I could see that he has been beaten, his head was swollen.  His right ear was swollen, his eye was swollen, he was bleeding badly  - the doctor said he was going to give him an operation - he will try his best to make him survive.  He said he will try his utmost best to make him survive, he said he'll try his utmost best.
 He went through the operation in the theatre  - it wasn't even many minutes after the operation.  After that we heard that he has passed away, we tried to phone our grandmother at home and she arrived immediately.  We went to the farm and fetched her and we told her what happened.
 Here at home in George, they were armed as if he died in struggle, although he died mercilessly.  There was not mid prayer gatherings that we could hold, because of the State of Emergency, that's all, thank you.

MS SEROKE: In your statement you tell us that you waited in the police station from nine in the morning till eleven o'clock, that was two hours, asking the police the whereabouts of your brother, and you were hearing his voice inside, crying and yet that time they were not answering you.
 And you also followed them and saw them taking him into the van - was Andile badly beaten during that time?

MS KOBE: He was quite by that time.

MS SEROKE: Did you follow the van to the beach?

MS KOBE: And they  switch - take the lights off and come back.

MS SEROKE: Were you not interested what were they doing in the beach, didn't you manage to see what were they doing, whether did they leave him or there.

MS KOBE: No we couldn't even think of that.

MS SEROKE: You also come back from the police station till one and they told you that he is in hospital and you come back.  All those time they are making you moving up and down - up until you go home and you went to bed till half past two, - that's seven hours, you were looking for your brother and then the following day you woke up, you go to the police station again and then to the hospital until you find your brother.
 This policeman who were beating your brother, do you know them.

MS KOBE: I am sorry I don't know them, I can't identify.