Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-17

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: It could have been two weeks or slightly less.
Two or three.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS GABRIEL: Did you hear from Blessing Ninela after that, after you were released?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: No, because when I arrived at home I discovered that the IFP had gained strength and a lot of people had fled the area.  I also fled to Inanda and thereafter went to live with my grandmother at Umlazi.

MS GABRIEL: Were there any investigations carried out over the death of your brother?  Do you know anything about this?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Before I made a statement to the TRC there was no investigation that I was aware of.

MS GABRIEL: Those are my questions, Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS GABRIEL

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We'll take the short adjournment and resume in 15 minutes.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: (s.u.o)

CHAIRPERSON: We are losing valuable time during adjournments, one must try and avoid that.
Yes, Mr Visser any cross-examination of this witness?

MR VISSER: Mr Chairperson, very briefly.  Before I do so, may I ask you to look at Exhibit B and to page some 23 pages into Exhibit B, I hope yours is in the same order as mine, where you will find, Mr Chairman, actually 25 pages, a second statement of Mr Humphrey Senzo Bhengu.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: I will briefly refer to that statement in comparison with what we find at page 60 and onwards.

MR VISSER: Mr Bengu, do I understand it correctly, the problems which you experienced in the area where you were living concerned a rivalry between the IFP and the ANC?

MR LAX: Mr Visser, he said UDF, but you know the ANC wasn't a lawful organisation in those days.

MR VISSER: I'm happy to amend my question.  Was it really a rivalry between the IFP, the Inkatha youth and supporters of the UDF?

MR LAX: Please just switch your microphone on, Mr Bhengu.

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: No, I said ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sit closer to the microphone so we can hear properly.

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: I said the problems were between Inkatha and the UDF.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: Thank you.  And did you look up to Mr Blessing Ninela as a person older than yourself and your brother?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And did he give you self-defence training?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: No, I wouldn't call it self-defence, but the situation was bad in the area, you had to take care.

CHAIRPERSON: Did he give you training, we're talking about Blessing?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Not exactly.

MR VISSER: Can I read to you what you said in your statement at page 60, paragraph 2?  Third line, end of the sentence,
"Blessing started to give us self-defence training"
Is that wrong or is that correct?

CHAIRPERSON: Let him see it.  Yes.

MR VISSER: The third sentence, the last word starts with Blessing, in paragraph 2 at page 60, bundle 1, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: So is that statement correct, or is it wrong?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: It is true.

MR VISSER: And he told you how to use firearms, although you didn't have a firearm to demonstrate with, is that correct?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And he politicised you?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: He did not exactly teach us about politics, but it was obvious from the situation that pertained at the time, that one should make a choice of what one is going to do, but it was not political education as such.

MR VISSER: Alright.  And it then turned out that on Sunday the 5th of June 1988, he, a conversation took place between yourself and your brother and Blessing Ninela.  That is paragraph 10 in the inquests documents, Chairperson, the one that you've marked.

MR LAX: It's in fact paragraph 9, Mr Visser, but it's not that material.

MR VISSER: The only point I want to make now is that the date is wrong in paragraph 10, it should read the 6th, if the date in paragraph 9 is correct and we've checked, that is the correct date, Sunday the 5th of June 1988, so Monday should then have been not the 4th of June but the 6th of June.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR VISSER: And what I'm asking you is according to you there was a conversation that took place with - I'm sorry you are correct, Mr Commissioner, paragraph 5.  On the Sunday you told Mr Ninela about what had happened in the attack of the Inkatha youth on you, is that correct?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Yes, we did discuss the matter.

MR VISSER: And on the Monday you received the bomb from him?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And he showed you how to work it?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And you said at page 3 in paragraph 10 at the end of that, that he handed you the bomb to protect yourselves, is that correct?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Yes, but you yourself say further down that's it difficult to understand how you could use a bomb to protect yourself, in paragraph 11.  Do you still have that opinion?

MS GABRIEL: Which paragraph are you referring to?

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, it's paragraph 11, I will read it, second sentence
"We found that it was going to be difficult to use it when we are attacked."

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And that is why you decided to use the bomb to attack yourselves, to attack someone else?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: That's correct.

MR VISSER: And those persons were a Mr Fikazi and  Mazwi Mbambo, is that correct?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Yes.

MR VISSER: And how were you going to attack them with the bomb?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: I'm sure you are well aware of how that bomb works.  We were going to prepare it for it to detonate.

MR VISSER: Well in the room where they stayed, or how?  How were you going to target those two persons?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: They resided in a one-roomed house.  That was where we were going to place it.

CHAIRPERSON: Inside the house?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: It was at night and we were not going to be able to get inside.  We would have put it outside.

CHAIRPERSON: That's the question.

MR VISSER: Thank you.  Did you intend to kill these people?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Well, it would have been decided by the bomb.

MR VISSER: Yes, I'm more interested in what your intention was, was your intention to kill them?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Yes, that's correct.

MR VISSER: And anybody else that was in the house?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: I do not know about that.

MR VISSER: Alright.  You - the bomb then explodes and then where did you go after you came to?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: In fact I did not know that the bomb had exploded, I thought somebody had shot at us.

MR VISSER: Yes.

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: And when I regained consciousness, I went down the road to Blessing's home.

MR VISSER: Why didn't you go to your own home to tell your father about it?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: I did not see it as important, or it did not occur to me.

MR VISSER: Was it more important to tell Blessing about it?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: It was important.

CHAIRPERSON: Was Blessing there when you went to his house?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: He was not there.

MR VISSER: Now, I just want to put it to you - well, let me ask you this, when did you first decide that it might have been Mr du Preez who pretended to be an attorney who visited you in hospital?  When did that first occur to you?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: Please repeat that question.

MR VISSER: When did it first occur to you ever that one of the persons who pretended to be an attorney who visited you in hospital, might have been Mr du Preez?

HUMPHREY SENZO BHENGU: I do not understand the question.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, just hold on.  Why do you say that it was Mr du Preez who came to see you in hospital, pretending to be an attorney?  Why do you say that?