Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

MR LACKS: Okay.  Now, this child of your daughter, how old is the child?

WITNESS:   Is eight years old.

MR LACKS: Give me the child's name please.

WITNESS:   Portia.

MR LACKS: Is the child going to school at the moment?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LACKS: And what class is the child in please?

WITNESS:   She's in standard one.

MR LACKS: Who looks after the child?  Do you do that?

WITNESS:   I look after the child.

MR LACKS: Have you applied for any grants to try and help you with the child's maintenance?

WITNESS:   No, I haven't applied for any.

MR LACKS: Do you know perhaps whether you can contact the child's father and ask for some assistance there?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LACKS: Would you need some help to do that?

WITNESS:   Yes, the father does play his part.

MR LACKS: Questions?  No further questions.

KHOZA MGOJO: I just want to check on a small thing here.  In your statement that's before me it says Nonhlanhla was killed on the 29th January 1992.  The third paragraph it reads her death certificate of the Magistrate's office in Port Shepstone she died on the 21 October 1992.  Which one is correct here?

WITNESS:   We have to rectify the statement.  Something is wrong here.

KHOZA MGOJO: The dates have to correspond.  I wanted to get the dates straight here because they do not correspond.

COMMISSIONER: Mrs Hlongwane, thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today.  We understand and recognise that it has been very painful for you to remember about the death of your daughter, particularly as you had to spend so much time searching and trying to find out where she was, if she was alive, and then discovering that she was not alive, and then having to find her grave in such miserable circumstances.  So we do extend our deep sympathies to you.  It's a sad story.  It's also a confusing story.  We don't have any clear idea as to why she was killed.  We will try and follow up from the pieces of information that we have got.  As my colleague Mr Lacks says, the death certificate does refer to a police investigation, and we will try and follow that up, whether it's here in Port Shepstone or whether it's in Durban, where she was finally buried, and we will communicate that information to you.  But in the meantime we again extend our sympathies to you, and thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today, and we wish you well as you leave us.

COMMISSIONER: Nomusa, can you hear me?  Can you understand me as I am talking to you?  Okay, thank you.  You are from KwaSithole in the Port Shepstone area, and you have come to tell us a very tragic story about the death of your mother, Siziwe Ngcobo, and your brother, Henry Mthunzi Ngcobo, who were killed in 1992.

MRS NGCOBO: That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Before you tell us that story can you please stand and take the oath.

NOMUSA SIBONGILE NGCOBO: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Nomusa, you are presently living at KwaSithole.  Whereabout is that?

WITNESS:   It's at Mbhayimbhayi.

COMMISSIONER: Murchison area?  Near Murchison?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's correct.

COMMISSIONER: And is that where you were living at the time that your brother and your mother died?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Are you married?

WITNESS:   No.

COMMISSIONER: Do you stay in the family house?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Who are you staying with?  Is your father still alive?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have a father.

COMMISSIONER: Do you stay with other members of your family?

WITNESS:  Yes, I have my child and my brothers and sisters.

COMMISSIONER: And are you working?

WITNESS:   No, I am not working.

COMMISSIONER: And when - in 1992 was your brother living with you, your brother Henry Mthunzi?  Was he living with you?

WITNESS:  That's correct, yes.

COMMISSIONER: With your mother as well?

WITNESS:   Yes. Okay, can you then tell us what happened to your mother and your brother in July 1992.  You said it was the 7th of July 1992.  Perhaps you can just tell us what age was your brother then?  You said here he was born in 1967, is that correct?   ---   1967, that's correct.

COMMISSIONER: So he was about 25 years old.

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: 27 years old, sorry.  And was he a member of any political party?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was an ANC member.

COMMISSIONER: And was he working?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was working.

COMMISSIONER: Where was he working?

WITNESS:   At Fresh Meats.

COMMISSIONER: All right.  Would you like to tell us then what happened on the 7th of July as you recall it?

WITNESS:   It was around 25 to seven.  We were sitting at home and we just heard the gunshot.  We did not see what happened, and my mum went out, went to the dining-room to check, and to see what's happening.  But she never survived, and also my brother was the next one, because he tried to go out to see what was happening.  We did not get to see who the perpetrators were.

COMMISSIONER: So your mother - you said your mother heard a shot and she went out into the yard to investigate.

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: She went out the door, and then ... (intervention)

WITNESS:   No, she got shot in the dining-room.

COMMISSIONER: She was shot - what, through - did the bullet come through a window?

WITNESS:   No, the door was opened.

COMMISSIONER: And did she fall in the dining-room?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: And is that where she died?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: And your brother, what did he do?

WITNESS:   My brother died in his house. At the same time?  How soon after your mother was shot was your brother shot?  Was it immediately afterwards?   ---   My brother got shot first, and my mum, after hearing the gunshot she tried to go out from the bedroom to the dining-room.  We also heard another gunshot and we started hiding.  We could not get to see the people who did this.

COMMISSIONER: Sorry, I am just confused.  So your brother was shot first, and that was the shot your mother heard, and then she was shot immediately after that.

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: And then did you all hide in the house?  What did you do?

WITNESS:   Yes, we all hid.

COMMISSIONER: And did you stay hidden for some time?  Did these people come into the house, or into then yard, or did you hear them say anything?

WITNESS:   We never heard anything.  Also they did not come in.

COMMISSIONER: And then what happened after that?  Did you call the police, or did you call the ambulance, or did you - what happened?

WITNESS:   We called the police.

COMMISSIONER: Did they come and ask you questions or take a statement from you?

WITNESS:   No, they just came and they asked what happened.  We told them.  We related the whole story that my mum and my father got shot by the people who are unknown, and they simply left after that.

COMMISSIONER: And did they remove the bodies?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did take the corpses with.

COMMISSIONER: And was there any sort of case after that that you were called to to testify at any case?

WITNESS:   No, there was no case that was opened.

COMMISSIONER: Did you never go to a court, to an inquest or any sort of court case about your brother and your mother's death?

WITNESS:   Can you please repeat your question?

COMMISSIONER: Did you go to court for an inquest, or did you never go near a court concerning your brother and your mother's death?

WITNESS:   No, we never went to the court of law.

COMMISSIONER: Did you obtain a death certificate for your mother and one for your brother?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did obtain.

COMMISSIONER: Does that just indicate that they died from bullet wounds?  What does it say on the death certificate?

WITNESS:  Yes, it does state.

COMMISSIONER: Were they shot more than once, or were they just shot once each as you recall?

WITNESS:   I don't know, but the only bullet hole was just one on the head.