Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-09

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that was Sicelo.

CHAIRPERSON: And they shot?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, they missed him with four bullets.  It had only two bullets.

CHAIRPERSON: How far were they from the deceased when they shot at him?

BONGANI NKOSI: I couldn't see them, they were on the other side, I just heard the noise.  I can't even estimate the distance.

MR SHANE: When Mr Chairman said to you, you gave the firearm to other people, you mean you gave it to one person, Sicelo Qoka, is that correct, it wasn't other people, it was one person?

BONGANI NKOSI: I just gave it to Sicelo, because he was the one that I trusted at that time, because I was busy at that time, in that house.

MR SHANE: Is it correct that Sicelo fired four shots, but missed?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.  I complained because he had wasted my bullets, I took my firearm back.

CHAIRPERSON: It can't be such a smart gun?

MR SHANE: Will you proceed?

BONGANI NKOSI: The Zulu guy fell with only one bullet and I took my firearm back to its place.  That was the end of the story.  The government people came to fetch this person.

MR SHANE: Right, now can you explain in detail and you must satisfy the learned members of this Committee, why did you think that this person should die?  How certain were you that he was the right person that should die?

BONGANI NKOSI: During those times of war, our place was so small.  If we were in Palm Bridge, I would take you to the place, but now we are far away from that place.  We used to know one another and when I heard the mother saying that they saw an IFP member, I had to rush, I had to go and fetch my firearm, because I was a Commander in that place.  I had to ask them what was happening, because if I see people moving up an down, it is my job to ask.
	Unfortunately for that person, he was pursued and he was captured and he later died.

MR SHANE: Did you, besides the community told you,  did you have any other, did you only rely on what the community told you, as to this person being an IFP informer or IFP member?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, I used to believe in my community.

MR SHANE: Did you know who this person was, the one who died?  Did you know his name, did you see him before?

BONGANI NKOSI: I just saw this person for the very first time, I did not search for his identity card or something else.  We would just do the work, without looking for further details.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you believe what you were told about him being an informer?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, because they wouldn't allow me to go and fetch my firearm and kill that person, if that was not true but it is because they knew that this person did not fall to that other category.  When I came, I decided to go and fetch the firearm and everyone knew that the people were fighting in the area.

MR SHANE: Now you also were involved in the murder of someone, during June or July 1993.

CHAIRPERSON: When was this murder, when did that take place that you now shot this person once in the head?

BONGANI NKOSI: It was round, I think it was in October, I was trying to write here, trying to remember, but it was in the morning.  It was on a Saturday or Sunday, I cannot remember.
	There were people all around the place, because everyone was behind this person.  That is why it was so easy for us to catch this person.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, proceed.

MR SHANE: Thank you.  June/July of 1993, you took part in the killing of another what you say is an IFP member.  This was when this person was stoned and burnt.  Can you give full details of that please?

BONGANI NKOSI: On that particular day, it was in the afternoon at about three o'clock, we were sitting on the corner of Lekwano and Mavuso Street.  We were sitting on the second house.
	No one would move on that street.  Unfortunately a person appeared with his big bag.

CHAIRPERSON: Why would nobody move on that street?

BONGANI NKOSI: That was declared a no-go area.  On that particular day, we had just provoked the other guys from the other side, exchanging fire.  Unfortunately for this gentleman, he appeared from that direction, and I called him and he came.  I asked him where he was coming from.
	He told me that he was coming from kwaZulu Natal and I asked him why was he there.  He said his brother told him that there was a job for him.  I was there with Sicelo, Sam Makoba, Charles and the others.  We searched him, we searched his pockets, we came across an IFP membership card.
	When we opened the bag, we saw a chicken that was his provision.  We assaulted this person, because we noticed that he was an IFP member.  We pelted him with stones, big stones, heavy stones.  We don't know whether he died or not.  We later came with a petrol and we poured the petrol over his body and we set him alight, and after that, we took covers.
	We left him there.   The government people came to fetch him.

MR SHANE: What part did you play in setting him alight?  Did you pour petrol on him, or did you strike the match and throw the match on the petrol, what did you do?

BONGANI NKOSI: I didn't even pour petrol on his body, I didn't even set him alight, but I was helping Charles to take cover as he was pouring petrol and setting him alight.  I would direct him to the cover.

CHAIRPERSON: Was he dead already?

BONGANI NKOSI: I cannot tell because we just stoned him and we poured petrol and we set him alight.  We don't even know whether he was already dead or not, but we were just fighting, we were just going ahead with the fighting.

MR SHANE: Could you tell, before or just before he was set alight, was he laying still in an unconscious state or was he moving, how was he?

BONGANI NKOSI: If you are fighting, you don't even check if the person is still kicking or what, you just continue with the job.  You only do what you intend to do.  You just make it happen that that particular person dies, you don't check the other things.

CHAIRPERSON: He was killed because you had discovered that he had an IFP membership card?

BONGANI NKOSI: Yes, that is correct.  And when we were questioning him, he told us that his brother told him that there was a job for him.
	We asked him what type of a job was that, and he did not say.  We thought that maybe the job was to kill us, his job was to come and kill us, that is what came to our minds.

CHAIRPERSON: What was wrong with being a member of the IFP?  Why did that meet with death?

BONGANI NKOSI: Let me give you a clear picture.  In Tokoza, the war was going on for a very long time, and even the place that I was staying at, that was not my place of origin, because I was born in the place where the Inkatha people had occupied.  The people there were fighting day and night from 1990 up to 1996.
	That was the situation, that was our daily bread.  If we happened to spot a person that did not belong to that place, we would capture that person and deal with him.

MR SHANE: Those are the two murders which you took part in.  We now deal with the different acts of arson that you got involved in.
	You apply for amnesty for burning of two shacks, belonging to IFP at A18, can you explain what is A18?

BONGANI NKOSI: At A18, it is the place where I am staying right now, that is my family house.  Two gentlemen were staying there, and they used to tell us to lock the house and not to go outside.  We made a plan one day, we set alight to two shacks that was in my yard, where I was staying.
	When they came back in the evening, we chased them.  That is why I submitted this application, it is because I burnt down their shacks.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you burn down their shacks, because they refused to allow you to go out?