Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-05-07

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Can you please explain us, this Barnard, is it your son or is it your brother?

WITNESS:   No, he is my brother.

KHOZA MGOJO: I see here in your statement that when the remains of the body of your brother were returned you were not allowed to view the body.  Do you know the people who refused you that gesture of review?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know them perfectly well.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know where they stay?

WITNESS:   Yes, they reside in Thumahole.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you say anything to them to inquire why didn't they allow you to see the body?

WITNESS:   Yes, there was a piece of paper placed on the coffin, and it was written that before the coffin can be opened there has to be a pathologist.  If we don't have a pathologist we cannot open the coffin.

KHOZA MGOJO: (Inaudible) ... should be pathologist before you open the coffin?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't give us any reason.

DR BORAINE: Mrs Molokwane, I want to go back to the time before your brother went to exile.  You told us that he was arrested.  Can you remember why he was arrested, what the charges were?

WITNESS:   He was arrested on the 15th of July in 1984.  It was during the rent boycott.

DR BORAINE: But you don't remember on what charge?  Who got the bail for him when he was charged?

WITNESS:   His organisation organised him a bail.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  And when he came out he told you that he was tortured.  Which police station was it?

WITNESS:   It was in Parys, in Parys Police Station.

DR BORAINE: Thank you.  Did he describe what the torture was that he had?

WITNESS:   He said there were two policemen, and they assaulted him, they kicked him.  They wanted to remove him from his statement, and they said to him they are going to kill him if he is still on this rent boycott issue.

DR BORAINE: Thank you very much.

MR LAX: Ms Molokwane, do you know the place in Zimbabwe where your brother died?

WITNESS:   No, I don't have an idea.

MR LAX: Thank you.

DR MAGWAZA: Mrs Molokwane, again I wish to let you know that the Commission would like to ease your pain as much as possible.  We would still like to know from you what do you think the Commission can do to ease the pain?

WITNESS:   I want the policemen who assaulted him to appear public so that they can be known, and justice has to be done. Well, thank you very much.  The Commission will do its best to grant your wishes.

DR MAGWAZA: Thank you very much for appearing here.  We don't  make any promises that we would be able to do everything, but we will try.  We will try to bring our condolences to you.  We thank you very much.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much, Sir.

DR BORAINE: May I say how glad we are to see you.  I understand that you are from Umlazi, and that you have come to tell us a very, very grim and awful story, and you have obviously suffered a great deal, and we want you to know that you are very, very welcome, and that we are ready to hear your story, and in a moment I am going to ask one of my colleagues to help you to tell that story, but first I must ask you to please stand so that you can take the oath.

ADELAIDE NGCOBO: (Sworn, States)

DR BORAINE: I am going to ask my colleague, fellow Commissioner Dr Ramashala, to guide you now in the telling of your story.  Thank you.  Dr Ramashala.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Mama Ngcobo, we greet you.  What happened to you is very painful because we are not speaking about one person, we are speaking about two people who died, Gogo Nzama and Zenzele Ngcobo.  Am I speaking the truth?  We are also speaking about the injured, Baba Vincent Nzama and Sithembiso Ngcobo.

WITNESS:   Yes.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: We are requesting you, Mama, to go back and tell us how this whole thing started, how the harassment started, when the police started harassing you.  Could you tell us about what is happening?  Take your time.