Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-10-13

MOLAHLENE STANLEY WANYANE: That is correct.  We found out later that the following were not found by the police:  a macaroff pistol, a Stashkin pistol and the two hand grenades.  The one RGD5 and the one F1.
	I am still at the road block, but I am trying to explain some other thing that took place prior to that.  As we go through this case Mr Chairperson, you will realise that the police did find some weapons at Zone 10, at Batandwa Godlo's home.  Those weapons were left there by me about a week before the 27th.  They were actually in transit.
	I had no space or no place to put that material because I had another arms cache with me at my room at Pomolong.  I went to Batandwa and arranged for the venue, we agreed that we could leave those weapons at his home in the back room because they were in transit after all.
	I went to Ben to arrange for transportation and left those weapons there.  Comrade Shakes, the deceased, had made arrangements for Tsepo to meet us at the taxi rank in Rustenburg.  At certain points towards Magaliesburg, we came across a road block manned by traffic officers.  I wish to emphasise to you Mr Chairperson, we had no intention at all, nor any plan, to shoot at the road block despite that our Commander, BB, had instructed us to ensure the safety of those weapons in case of police road blocks or stoppages.
	I think that this is also shown by the fact that we complied with the order by the traffic officers to park the car we were travelling in, alongside the road and also because we waited for about ten minutes as the Officer was asking questions to our driver, Ben Masiso, while the other white Officer I think that is Mr Van Heerden, if I recall his name, kept on insulting us.
	At one stage he asked us what was in the bags, because we had two bags in the back with us.  He wanted to know what was inside and we did not answer.  He left and joined his colleagues on the other side of the road.	
	Mr Chairperson, we did not intend to shoot at them from the onset.  This is also indicated by the fact that this Officer was going to and fro from our car, parked on the other side of the road, to their cars on the other side of the road, at least twice if I remember.
	We did not arrive at that road block and immediately opened fire.  We did not even plan to kill anyone of them.  As this Officer was speaking through the radio on the other side of the road, we could tell from the apparent uneasiness among the traffic officers, that there was going to be some trouble.
	We strongly believed Mr Chairperson, that these Officers would accost us, search the car and confiscate these weapons and that would have meant arrest for all of us.  We were determined to safeguard the material of the movement as instructed by comrade BB.
	We then took a decision that Batandwa Godlo alone should move out of the car, and shoot towards the direction of the Officers, so as to get our way out of that scene.  Ben then moved the car about 30 to 40 metres away from its original position.
	That shooting did not last, I am adamant, fore more than a minute.  On his way back to the car, comrade Babs fell and I moved out and shot towards the Officers.  I could not see any of them, but I was just shooting towards their direction.
	Comrade Babs got into the car, I thought that they must have shot him, that was not the case.  He fell because of a hole on the side of the road.  It means that I was giving him cover until such time that he got into the car.  He got into the car and we drove in the direction of Krugersdorp.
	I want to emphasise once more Mr Chairperson, that the fact that the car was stolen, we got to know that only after we were arrested and interrogated by the Security Branch, it was not what drove us to shoot at the Officers.  We were primarily concerned with the safekeeping of this material, because indeed it was very difficult to get them.
	A chase ensued and not far away, I think it is a distance of about 2.7 km, according to the police report in court, Mr Baba's car, a white BMW appeared and was immediately blocked and taken at gunpoint.
	That was done because the car we were travelling in, had its back window shot and it had fallen down completely.  It was also not travelling very fast, and because of this ensuing chase, we thought that that would be the fastest car to drive us out of that sector.
	As the car was blocked, Batandwa and myself were so preoccupied with the weapons in the car, we wanted to make sure that we take them out with us, as we were moving out and running to this BMW, we saw that there was some disagreement between Ben and Mr Babas, the owner of the car.
	I think he will explain it better.  Two shots went off from the macaroff I gave him the previous night.  It never changed hands at all.  We got into this BMW and sat in the very same order we had sat in in the first car.
	We faced the direction of Krugersdorp.  I remember somewhere along the way, we turned and faced towards Randfontein.  We saw that there was a helicopter hovering above and some traffic officers were closing down on us.
	We turned back to the Krugersdorp, Magaliesburg road and faced Krugersdorp again.  The car was very fast and somewhere the tyre of this car, burst and we all moved out and spread in different directions.  It was again my responsibility with comrade Babs, to ensure that this material is safe.
	We took out these bags with us, ran towards some plots.  We did not know the area very well.  We managed to hide this material, these weapons at various spots, including an old disused house apparently where they were later found by the police.
	We left that area with no weapons in our possession, but after a while, we were surrounded by the police, who arrested us.
	Right, we were taken to the police station, I am in the arrest now.  In this police van, we were trying to formulate a story to tell to the police, but I do not remember reaching any agreement on the story to be told to them.  At some point we suggested among ourselves, we should tell them that we were given a lift on our way to Rustenburg, by some two guys, unknown to us.  But I don't remember reaching any agreement on that because the police station was not far away.
	Also in the van, we had in our possession, the police did not find this, a sketch of a DLB, a sketch right of a DLB, that is a Dead Letter Box and we managed to destroy that and throw the pieces of paper out of the window of the van.
	When we arrived at the police station, we were kicked, electrified and beaten up for over one hour.  I was handcuffed in a very small room, the size of this township municipality toilets and kicked several times by one Captain Dick at the time.  Captain Dick.
	But before they left, I spoke aloud because I could realise that they were going to separate us, I said no, we are not responsible for this, George did all of this.  George.  
	It meant that I was giving a signal to Babs Batandwa, to stick with this very same name.  Because there was no way that we would compromise our comrade when he had not been arrested and reveal his identity to the Security Police.
	We felt that because he had managed to evade the arrest, we should face the consequences and we stuck with that name throughout our case and throughout the trial.
	The police left with Batandwa to his home at Zone 10, Meadowlands and found the weapons I had left there a week earlier, before our departure to Rustenburg.
	They searched the house and also found the document For the Sake of Our Lives.  That is a document detailing the formation of community based Self Defence Units.
	They also found a letter which I had written to comrade Babs some time in 1989, 1990 while I was in the Eastern Cape at Rhodes, but this letter was never made available during our trial.
	Although it was a subject of lengthy periods of interrogation by the Security Police, because it included the name of our Commander, where I had referred to him as BB and they kept on wanting to know who this BB was.  I was evasive all the time.
	On the night, the very same night, 27th September 1991, we were taken to the offices of the Security Branch and were informed by Major Kleynhans that we were being detained under Section 29 of the Internal Security Act and that we would be subjected to six months detention period without trial.
	He promised that things were going to be very very tough for us.  I knew in my mind that the period of interrogation or detention, had been amended by then.  I, if I am not wrong, I should think it was reduced to two weeks.  But we did not contest that, he just read out selected Acts from that copy.
	Periods of interrogations followed one after the other, for over two weeks.  I was still trying to paint a picture of me giving a lift by these guys not known to me.  I did not know by then that they had found this letter and document For the Sake of Our Lives.
	They had so many photographs of dead people with what seemed to be bullet wounds on the foreheads, they used to bring that to me very often at night.  Maybe they thought I would be scared by that.
	After a while Major Kleynhans said Stanley, I can tell you that you are lying.  You were not going to Rustenburg on a lift, but you were going there to be trained in Self Defence Units, we have evidence.  He produced this document.
	I did not agree with him from the onset, but when he took out this letter, and I read the contents, I could see that yes, they knew something.  He said that comrade Babs had told him that we were going to Rustenburg for Self Defence Unit training.
	I said yes, this is the right thing.  It would be a better sin to agree to being Self Defence Unit members, rather than MK operatives.  That is the statement Mr Chairperson, that we did not deviate from throughout our trial until our conviction on the 15th of February 1993.
	That was a fabricated statement made to the police.  We felt Mr Chairperson, that there would have been no need for us to change that statement because of our lack of faith in the judiciary of the then apartheid South Africa.
	I would like to proceed to another issue Mr Chairperson.