Amnesty Hearings — Pinetown — 1999-12-13

UNKNOWN: Sir, in your evidence-in-chief you said there was somebody higher up in the hierarchy of the ANC, who used to give you instructions.  Just for my purposes, could you repeat his name please.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Dumisani Mabizela was the Chairperson of Nduzuma, not just in my area.   Not in area A, Block 3, he was on the whole of Nduzuma.  Dumisani Mabizela.

UNKNOWN: How long prior to the 7th of April 1991 was this fighting going on between the ANC and IFP?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: The IFP started the war in October 1990, that is when they started launching attacks in the area.  That was when I went to report to the SADF, to assist us.  When the soldiers arrived they enquired about my ANC membership, I showed them my card and I showed them the list of ANC members in the area.  They then went to Mr Ngobo who was at Mr Sithole's house, who was also an IFP member.
	They searched that house and they found firearms and other weapons.  They then removed them, took them to Lindelani and other areas that were dominated by the IFP.  We then remained, knowing, or under the impression that the residents of that area were now ANC aligned.  But they started launching attacks in October 1990 and up until the time when I called the meeting, at that time I was then under the impression that they had all left or that they were no longer active in launching attacks on us.  I didn't know that there were still other people in the area who supported Mr Ngobo.

UNKNOWN: Okay.  Sir, ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Sorry, can I just interpose for one second.
	You've just said something to me that I understand  that at the time, that is April '91, there were no longer attacks on the go, did I understand you correctly?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It had stopped periodically from January to April. January '91 to April, and then I called a meeting.

MR LAX: So between January and April there were no attacks and that's why you were calling this development meeting?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, between January and April the situation was no longer the same because although people were still afraid, but the attacks were not that harsh. People were still afraid, but they were not being attacked.

MR LAX: Thank you.  Please continue.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.
	Following from the question that you just answered now, did you know the deceased', both of them, Oswald and Mavis?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I knew them from the area.

UNKNOWN: How long were they residing in this area for, prior to April '91?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: When I arrived in May 1990, they were residing in the area.  I do not know for how long they had been residing there.

UNKNOWN: Okay, so I will tell you that they came there one month before you got there, which was in April of 1990.  To carry on further, Sir ...(intervention)

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: ...(no English interpretation)

MR LAX: Sorry, we're not getting any interpretation I'm afraid.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: When I arrived in the area they were already there, but I started knowing them in May.

MR LAX: Yes, but the question - what Ms Jelal put to you was, she's telling you that as far as her instructions go the deceased arrived there a month before you arrived there.  That's when the family say they arrived in the area.  Would you dispute that or would you be happy with that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No, that is possible.

MR LAX: Thanks.

UNKNOWN: Sir, you spoke about this gun which was brought from the deceased's house and you said there was also muti brought, but in your affidavit on page 14, paragraph 5, you say it was a handbag of herbs.  Was it herbs or muti?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: I regard that as the same, muti or herbs.

UNKNOWN: Okay.  Is it correct as well that you told this gathering that the deceased', Oswald and Mavis, were witchdoctors?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: When the muti was brought and on seeing that muti, yes, I did say that they were involved in witchcraft because IFP members like to use muti.

UNKNOWN: Is it not common across the black culture that people believe in muti, a lot of black people do and it's not something that is political, it's just across the board?

MR PANDAY: Sorry, Mr Chairman, just a second.  My learned friend's basis for - unless she's going to lead some expert evidence.

MR LAX: Are you seeking to object to that?

CHAIRPERSON: There have been numerous enquiries into this, particularly in this area of Natal, and there are reports available should you take the trouble to look.  I don't see how you can seriously start objecting to the question.

MR LAX: We've also heard reams of evidence during the course of our amnesty enquiries, that ANC people used muti, IFP people used muti.  It really didn't - you know, across the board.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chair.
	Sir, would you answer the question please.

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Mr Oswald informed us that they had an Inyanga at Eshowe that we should all approach.  That is instead of approaching the SADF.  He said he was going to arrange for us to go to that Inyanga.  It was not just ordinary muti but it was muti to the effect that we would be then to protect ourselves, that would make us strong.

UNKNOWN: So was it this statement then that made you give instructions to have them both killed?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: It was because they were IFP members responsible for attacks on our area.  That was also just another factor because we were also not going to approach Inyangas for muti.  We did not have money for that.

CHAIRPERSON: But as I understand what you just said, he told you, Oswald, that you should all approach his Inyanga, who would make you strong so that you could protect yourselves.  That's what you've just said, isn't it?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: There was an official body that was to protect us, that was the SADF.  Instead of going to an Inyanga.  We did not agree with him on that issue.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you please answer the question.  Are you saying he said that you should go to the Inyanga instead of the SADF, because it would make you strong and you would be able to protect yourselves?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, he said that.

CHAIRPERSON: So he appeared to by trying to help you.  You disagreed with what he was suggesting but it was a suggestion to help you.  I see you're nodding your head, you agree with that?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, but because Inkatha was then involved.

UNKNOWN: I refer you to page 25 of the bundle, this is an affidavit by Jabulani Moses Ndlovu.  This is the typed version of his hand-written affidavit.  The last paragraph on page 25 reads
"To my knowledge, Mbuyisa (that is the deceased) was not an IFP member but had bought his stand in Dalmeni Farm, from an IFP member, Ngobo.  He had also bought a firearm, home-made, from him.  Ngobo used to visit him to collect the repayment for his firearm.  According to my recollection, Mbuyisa had to leave Lindelani because the IFP there accused him of being an ANC member."
	Do you agree that Mbuyisa was actually an ANC member, not an IFP member?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: No, I do not.  As far as I knew, because he was involved with Mr Ngobo and he also displayed it at the meeting that he was in agreement with us.  I heard about the fact that he had once resided in Lindelani, which was an IFP area.

UNKNOWN: Sir, would you say that Ngobo and the deceased had a good relationship, were they friends?

MBONGENI CLARENCE MAJOLA: Yes, they were very good friends.