Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

MR HUGO: It then proceeds in this paragraph to say that you saw a certain terrorist names Treasure and you were then told by the informer that he was trained in Maseru and he was trained in a course in politics, firearms and explosives by the ANC. This is another blatant lie isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No there is no such.

MR HUGO: Then the next paragraph it says that you, Bra Mos and the informer went and arrest this certain Treasure at Nqgobo. That is also a lie isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No it is not true.

MR HUGO: And it says then that it was subsequently established that this person was a certain Charles Mbalu and this was reported to Brigadier Damooi. Have you got any knowledge of this?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't know of anything about it.

MR HUGO: The next paragraph it says on the 20th of September 1985, this is now on a Friday Mos and yourself visited Mbalu at the Kofimvaba Prison. Have you ever been there?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't know of this.

MR HUGO: Then it goes further and it makes an absolute ludicrous statement of saying that Mbalu then admitted that he himself and two friends namely Ndondo residing at Nxala and a certain Vum residing at Mount Frere were with him and - I am not going to read the whole contents or the rest of this paragraph. But they were all trained ANC members. Have you got any knowledge of this?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't know of anything like that.

MR HUGO: ...Damooi to arrest Vum and Ndondo. This is also a lie isn't it so?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes correct that is so.

MR HUGO: On the next paragraph page 63 it says that on Sunday you went to Mount Frere with the view of arresting this certain Mr Thobele Vum and when you arrived there he had fled and that you suspected that he heard about Mbalu's arrest and decided to flee. This is also a blatant lie isn't it so?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it is false.

MR HUGO: The next paragraph it says on the 24th of September you were then instructed by the security branch at Nxala that they had received instructions from the security branch in Umtata to arrest Ndondo should they see him. This is also a lie isn't it so?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes it is false all of it.

MR HUGO: And then it proceeds to give detailed information about the car's registration number, etc, etc. This is also false isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes all of this I hear today is false.

MR HUGO: And then they proceed with this nonsense of saying that Mr Ndondo was dressed in pyjamas. This is also false to the best of your knowledge?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes there is no such thing that he had on pyjamas.

MR HUGO: Now right at the bottom of page 63 it says and extensively you are now the person speaking here
"As I approached Ndondo he got up and grabbed hold of the pistol which he was trying to wrench from my grip."
This is also devoid of all truth isn't that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: All false.

MR HUGO: Then on page 64 almost in the middle of the page you extensively said
"I noticed a pocket knife in the left hand and Constable's Mos handcuffs in the right hand. The informer went to Ndondo and told Constable Mos that he should be hand-cuffed as he was still alive and might run away."
This is also a blatant lie isn't it so?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: All false.

MR HUGO: Then the next paragraph it says
"Then we saw a lot of people were gathering around the house and we decided to take Ndondo away and take him to a hospital."
This is also false isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: All false.

MR HUGO: The next paragraph says
"Then a man named Victor Masaleke arrived in the same red Volkswagen Golf and enquired about the incident."
Do you know about a man arriving in a red Golf afterwards and who enquired about the incident?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No there is no such.

MR HUGO: Then the next paragraph where it says that you yourself reported the incident to Lieutenant Gelili and that you took him to the scene where the incident occurred and explained exact the circumstances that lead to the shooting of Ndondo. This is also a lie isn't it so?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It is all a lie.

MR HUGO: And where it says purportedly in your statement that Thulili was then taken back to the police station and you then returned to Umtata and reported the incident once more to Brigadier Damooi. This is also a lie isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It is all false.

MR HUGO: By the way have you ever met a person by the name of Brigadier Damooi in your life?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I don't even know him. I don't think he knows me.

MR HUGO: And then finally on page 65 it says
"I want to state clearly that Batandwa Ndondo was escaping from lawful custody after being arrested for suspected terrorist activities. I believe that we would never have been able to prevent his escape by any other means than to shoot him. I fired five shots at Ndondo with a 9mm parabellum number whatever issued to me by the Transkeian police on the date of my appointment as a special constable."
This is also a blatant lie isn't it?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: All false.

CHAIRPERSON: Well wait a minute are you saying that sentence contains a number of allegations i.e. you fired shots. You said you fired how many, four shots I think it is?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay so it is the number of shots that you are disputing. Were you using the 9mm Parabellum?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: In this statement it is not true as has been written there. I did not use a firearm issued by Transkeian Police.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I understand that but did you use a 9mm? You used that didn't you?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes a 9mm.

CHAIRPERSON: But that was not issued by the Transkeian Police?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Because you were never appointed by them as a special constable?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Correct.

CHAIRPERSON: This statement I believe that we would never have been given to prevent his escape by any other means than to shoot him.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: I agree with this part.

CHAIRPERSON: But the fact of the matter though is that this is not what you said. You didn't tell anyone this. You didn't make this statement though.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Not one in this statement is written by me.

MR HUGO: Thank you Mr Chair. Mr Shabalala I just want you then to turn to page 17 of the bundle of documents. I know you are not an expert and neither am I but would you agree with me that this statement seems to have been typed on the same typewriter as your - if I say your statement the statement contained in the bundle from pages 61 up to pages 65. On the face of it.

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: It is apparently the same typewriter.

MR HUGO: And you will see on page 17 and it is a little bit faint but there it says "A20." Can you see that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I do.

MR HUGO: And on page 61 of the bundle there it says "A19." Do you see that?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: Yes I do.

MR HUGO: Have you ever had the occasion of dealing with dockets, dossiers when you investigating offences that were committed in your capacity as a normal policeman?

MBUSO ENOCK SHABALALA: No I did not. No I never did.