Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

MR BERGER: Chairperson, yes.  And those persons who were shot at Library Gardens were shot by members of the Police, except for the Policeman who died at Library Gardens who was shot by one of the marchers and there was an office worker, Mr van der Walt in one of the - in the Volkskas Bank who looked out of his window and got shot and one of the - we don't know, he was shot with a .38 if my memory serves me correctly, but that's particularly relevant for the purposes of this application.  What is relevant are paragraphs 3.11 and 3.12, those were further exhibits recovered by Superintendent du Plessis the following day, the 29th of March.  He got some out of a robot pole, you'll see there on the norther corner, and in 3.12 he got five fragments of bullets which he picked up from 48 Hours Take-away which was on the eastern side of King George Street, King Cobbler, you will recall the King Cobbler, referred to I think by Mr Singeram when he gave his evidence, that's on the western side of King George Street and Bellana Shoes, that's the ricochet shop, that's also on the eastern side of King George Street.  All of these shops are between - in King George Street between Plein Street and De Villiers.  We can continue for a few more minutes, but ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR BERGER: No, Chairperson, my watch stopped at 09h20 on the 11th of May.  Chairperson, page 4, paragraph 10 of the memorandum, we've just - we've included annexure "D" which is a letter, it starts at page 15, it's pages 15 and 16 of the bundle, 17 was taken from the docket, it's a handwritten note.  This is a letter which was sent from the Investigating Officer to the Commanding Officer of the Ballistics Section of the SAP.  Over time certain firearms were handed in by the ANC to the Police for ballistics testing, these were one of the first batches of guns that were handed in, and the reason that this is annexed is simply to show the two AK47s used on the day, they appear at page 16, paragraphs 3.1 and 3.2, "AK47 aanvalsgewere X2", those were the two AK47s that were used, one by Mr Molefe, one by Mr Khumalo.
	Now, paragraph 11 deals with the result of Superintendent Du Plessis's ballistic tests on exhibits, and I'm talking here about exhibits recovered at the scene on the day, the following day and exhibits recovered from the bodies.  What his analysis established was that a significant number of firearms were discharged at the time of the shooting.  
	Chairperson, all the reference to Du Plessis's evidence are set out in footnotes, from footnote no 5 through to footnote no 15 and all of that evidence has been copied for the Committee and has been annexed as part of annexure "H".  I'm not going to go through that evidence, it was a cross-examination which I did of Superintendent Du Plessis where - and what I did was I took him through his two affidavits, the annexures B and C to this memorandum, told him that I had done a certain analysis of those affidavits, and asked him to confirm it.  He corrected me where I was wrong, and the result of that cross-examination, that analysis are set out in paragraph 11.1.  
	What it shows, Chairperson, 11.1 is that at least five and possibly six, maybe even more, AK47s were fired at the time of the main incident.  How do we know that?  Well, one of these AK47s was in fact later seized by the Police from a marcher at Library Gardens and positively linked to nine of the AK47 shells recovered at Shell House, the reference is there.  
	I asked how do we know this, you will see, Chairperson, if I could take you very briefly back to Superintendent Du Plessis's affidavit, page 9, page 9 of the bundle.  You will see there, paragraph 3.4, "16 7.62 x 39 mm kaliber doppies", 7.62 x 39 mm are AK47.  So there were 16 AK47 doppies and if you look at 3.14.1 on the same page, there was one 7.62 - one "AK47 gemantelde koeel", jacketed bullet which was found on the scene.  Now, where do I get the five, possibly six, possibly more from?  	The 16 doppies were analyzed as follows, 9 of the doppies were linked to the AK47 which was retrieved approximately 1 hour later by the Police from one of the marchers at Library Gardens, 9 of the doppies were linked to that AK47.  Six of the doppies were linked to the AK47 fired by Mr Molefe, handed in by the ANC before the 8th of July 1994 as per annexure "D", so 6 of the doppies were linked to one of those AK47s and we know that it was Mr Molefe's one because those doppies were picked up in De Villiers Street.  There was uncertainty as to where all the other exhibits were picked up, in fact nobody knows were they were picked up, but as far as the 16 AK47 doppies are concerned, there was a video which shows that they were picked up in De Villiers Street near the intersection with King George.  
	So 9 Library Gardens AK, 6 Mr Molefe's AK and 1 left which couldn't possibly be linked to Mr Molefe's.  Superintendent Du Plessis said that he thought that it came from Mr Molefe's, but there was an absence of certain marks, he couldn't positively say that and he couldn't positively exclude the possibility that it was fired from another AK47.  
	There was a bit of controversy in the evidence of Superintendent Du Plessis, and finally, it's actually not annexed here, I recall it now, but the following day he came back and it was clarified in his evidence that that last remaining doppie could have come from Mr Molefe's AK, it might not have and it could have come from another AK.  And that's the reference to possibly more, but if one takes that one out of account or even if one attributes that to Mr Molefe's AK, we have from the 16 doppies we have 2 AKs.  
	Then we know that Mr Khumalo fired an AK, that's the third AK.  Then we know that an AK was fired from above Nandos, that's the fourth AK, and then we know that one of the deceased was hit by an AK, the bullet was recovered, that's the fifth AK, analyzed by Superintendent Du Plessis and it wasn't linked either to Mr Khumalo nor to Mr Molefe.  I don't know if that sound terribly confusing, but we know that it was fired from another AK47, it could have been the AK above Nandos.

MR LAX: But it wasn't the one that was found at Library Gardens?

MR BERGER: It wasn't that one either, no.  It could have been the AK that was fired up - further north up King George Street, we don't know.  Perhaps this would be an appropriate time to adjourn.

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the adjournment now and resume at 14h00.
HEARING ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we may proceed.