Human Rights Violation Hearings — Newcastle — 1996-09-10

WITNESS:  After I came back from that police station where Mthunzi was police came to me and my mother.  They told us we were needed to go to the police station because they wanted to take a statement from us.  And they were asking us questions, even though I cannot remember those questions very well.   And then they took us back home again.  When Mthunzi was supposed to appear in court they never told me that he was appearing in court until I heard when he was appearing for the second time.  One person told me if I knew that Mthunzi was appearing in court, and I said no.  And then I went there, and in that case the case was transferred to 'Maritzburg.  In 'Maritzburg that's where I used to go for his case.  He stayed there and then he was sent to Robben Island.  Even there also I tried to make money to go to Robben Island and visit him.  I went there.  I went there for the second time.  The third time I couldn't.  When he was released it was in April 1991.  He stayed only four months with me and he was killed.  What really made me feel so bad and sad is that there was no one who came to me to tell me that, "There was your child lying on the street dead," but when my child was arrested police came and asked me that I am the mother, I should come and make a statement.  But now the very same police who saw him being stoned - everyone saw because it wasn't that late at night.  People who knew me they never came and tell me this.  And people who knew him they saw that he was being killed, but no one came and told me.  ZP took him there late, and took him to hospital.  They knew who he was and where was he from, but they never bothered.  He used to tell me whenever he leaves, or to tell me what time he'll be back.  A week before he died we received a telephone early in the morning before I left for work, and this telephone said - this person said to me, "Do you know the person from Sithole family who is dead?"  And I said, "Sithole who?"  And they said a person from Sithole family, and I asked them, "Who are you?"  They said, "We are police."  I contacted an ANC president.  I think his name is Makhosini Hadebe.  I asked him, "Do you know Mthunzi, or do you know where Mthunzi is?   Is Mthunzi with you?"   And then he said, "No, Mthunzi is not with me, but I trust he is somewhere with his girlfriend."  And then I said to Makhosini, "Makhosini, I leave this matter on your hands.  Now you can do."  And then later at work they called me, they told me, "Don't worry because here he is, he is with us."  The following week on the 14th on Saturday he was from my aunt's funeral.  2 o'clock after work I met him at the gate.  That was the last time I saw my son.  He said to me he was going to see his aunt.  My sister told me that my son left early, and because he left early people didn't know who was being killed there.  But I still believe that this was someone's aim that he should be killed and no one should say anything.  Late in the evening he couldn't call, and I got worried because he used to call.  I went to my neighbour the next day.  I told my neighbour that, "I can't see my child and he is

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: /"not calling

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: not calling me."  It was on Sunday, and then the next day I wanted this neighbour of mine to accompany me to go to hospitals and mortuaries.  And then the neighbour advised me to send Makhosini to do this.  I asked Makhosini.  Makhosini came to Madadeni.  Initially he called the police, and then police from Madadeni told him that he is not in their custody.  And then Makhosini called again, and then the police said, "There is a person that we took from one farm called Jugglers(?), and we didn't know who he was."  Makhosini went to Newcastle, and when he came back to Madadeni he brought a box.  Inside this box there were his clothes full of blood, and he was in the mortuary now, lying there dead.  At about half past four Sihle left, and then came back with one shoe, and then he said to me, "Mum, don't you think is Mthunzi's shoe?"   And then I said, "Oh, maybe he was running," and I only discovered after a while that the shoe was left where he was being killed.  The people who killed my son whom I don't even know up to today.  The only person that I was shown that he's the one who killed my son is Bhaleni Nkosi, even though I don't trust that he's the one who killed my son.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: When you received a call that the person said, "Do you know the Sithole person who died?" was Mthunzi still alive?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: The people who called, did they identify them?

WITNESS:  They said they were police.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Among these people who were watching while others were killing Mthunzi are there others who came to you to see you and tell you that, "We saw whatever happened"?

WITNESS:   They said he even cried that, "You mustn't kill me." This Bhaleni Nkosi who agreed that he killed Mthunzi, who is this Bhaleni?   ---   No, I don't know Bhaleni.  The first time I saw Bhaleni it was in court.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: In your statement you said you doubt that Bhaleni is the one who killed your son.  What makes you doubt?

WITNESS:  No, I saw Bhaleni.  Bhaleni had a big wound in his head and he's weak.  He couldn't have killed my son.  His head was terrible injured.  They don't want to come forward.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: The names of the policemen who brought the corpse, or who took the corpse to Osizweni, did you ever get the names?

WITNESS:   I was taken by three males and we were trying to get the names of the police who took the corpse, as well as get the van, because we wanted to go and speak on the spot where he died as it is our culture to go to the scene of the murder.  We were told at Madadeni that he was brought by the police and we should go to the police to find out as to what had happened earlier on that led to his death.  And we told them that we were from the hospital and we wanted to see the person who had brought him or had taken him to the mortuary.  We were told that he had gone out.  Up until today we never got to know who he was.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Maybe this is a very painful question that I am going to pose to you, but I just want to clarify certain issues.  Is Mthunzi involved in the bomb that exploded at the Magistrate's Court?

WITNESS:   Yes, they said he was involved, he had planted a bomb at Game.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Is this the same bomb that injured Nene?

WITNESS:   No, they said he planted the bomb at Game.  That is a different place from the Magistrate's Court.  And I am quite happy because Reverend Shange knew me, and he knew about the incident.  And the very same Mthunzi was a youth leader within the church.  I don't know how he got involved in politics.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Was it the Church Youth League?

WITNESS:   Yes, it was the Church Youth League.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Your health, you just said that you have physical problems.  I have BP since I lost my husband, and people who knows me like my doctors can tell you more.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Are you still working at old age home?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: We've noted that down, even your request that you are asking for a pension, early pension.  We've noted that as well.  We do have a committee which helps people who are emotionally disturbed, and I would like to ask you if you have seen a psychologist or psychiatrist?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't.  I lost my mother and I didn't have money for funeral.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Are there - we do have psychologists and psychiatrists.  Did you see them?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't.

BONGINKOSI DLAMINI: Okay, after this we will refer you to them.