Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-09-22

MS MOODLEY: I'm in your hands.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, may - before I allow a member of my Committee to speak as well, you will understand that we conduct proceedings differently.  We also have to draw your attention to the fact that this is a Committee which is operating under very serious time constraints so where we can permit you an indulgence to read we will but where we have indicated that there is no need for you to do so, you can be rest assured that we do so taking into account the interest of the applicants which are most paramount in our consideration of such issues.  What the other panels have done in the past and continued to do has no bearing on this particular panel, we operate differently.

MS MOODLEY: As the Commission pleases.  I'd like to hand in an exhibit which contextualises the situation in Wembezi at the time that this particular incident occurred and I'm going to mark that Exhibit C.

MR DE JAGER: Let's mark it Exhibit D because the affidavit by Mr Phewa wasn't wasn't given a number and I think we should refer to that as Exhibit C and then this one would be D.

MS MOODLEY: This is April '94 Monthly Report of the Human Rights Committee.

MR DE JAGER: April 1994?

MS MOODLEY: Yes.

MR MALAN: Can you just quote the page that's relevant or pages?

MS MOODLEY: Page 15, I'm only going to hand in the relevant pages, it's page 15.

MR MALAN: Shall we refer to that as D(i)?

MS MOODLEY: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that our Human Rights Commission?

MS MOODLEY: Yes it is.

CHAIRPERSON: Our Committee, our standing Committee?

MS MOODLEY: No, not yours.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh.

MR MALAN: Is that the only document?

MS MOODLEY: No there's quite a few but they're relevant and it's not intended to waste the time of the Commission.

MR MALAN: Shall we refer to the first one as D9(i)?

MS MOODLEY: D(i)

MR MALAN: Right, the next?

MS MOODLEY: The next is March 1994 Monthly Report - D(ii), it's page 17.

CHAIRPERSON: 17?

MS MOODLEY: Yes.

MR MALAN: Why don't you read them all and then hand them to us?  Are these the only two documents?

MS MOODLEY: No, no.

MR MALAN: Well just read them all and with the relevant pages.

MS MOODLEY: This is on page 17 of the report that I've referred to.  It talks about Wembezi and four deaths and three injuries in six incidents.  The principal of Wembezi High School, Gerry Zuma, was killed when a hand grenade was thrown into his home at Depot Section, an ANC stronghold in Wembezi.
His death ...(intervention)

MR MALAN: Ms Moodley, we will really read it, if you can just refer us to the pages.

MS MOODLEY: No, because it's a couple of lines and it's finished
"His death came in the wake of violent clashes between rival gangs of pupils relating to the ANC/SACP internal conflict in Wembezi."

CHAIRPERSON: You can just go through all the exhibits that you wish to hand up without having to stand up because I think it will be quite cumbersome for you but please for our benefit you mark them because I think this one was not marked.

MS MOODLEY: So this one is D, D(ii).

CHAIRPERSON: Just mark all the pages D(ii).

MS MOODLEY: So, can I just be clear, the last exhibit you have is D(i)?

CHAIRPERSON: Just mark all those pages D(ii).

MS MOODLEY: This is report D(iii), September 1993, Monthly Repression Report.  It's page 13, at the top of page 13.

CHAIRPERSON: There are a few lines to read?

MS MOODLEY: No, this is a bit much, I think I'd prefer for you to read it in your own time.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MS MOODLEY: But it relates to these incidents as well.  There's D(iv), it's a Human Rights Report September 1995.

CHAIRPERSON: What number?

MS MOODLEY: 95, page 22 and 23, it runs over.

MR MALAN: That will be marked D(iv).  Have you dealt with all of them?

MS MOODLEY: Yes I think so.

MR MALAN: May I just with your permission Chair?  Exhibit D(ii), which you said was the March '95 report, page 17, in the middle of the page there's a reference to Wembezi which I guess is what you're referring us to, you read it out
"The Principal of Wembezi High School..."

MS MOODLEY: Yes?

MR MALAN: Now it does not give us an indication as to the time slot ...(intervention)

MS MOODLEY: The actual date?

MR MALAN: The time slot of this report.  So do you have a copy of the previous pages which tells us what period this is covering?

MS MOODLEY: Mr Malan, I don't think it's going to be easy for me to do that right now but before the end can we then confirm and I'll let you have actual dates?

MR MALAN: I tell you why I'm asking this, this is March '95.  We're talking of exactly 12 months after the incident.

MS MOODLEY: Yes and ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: I think this one, some evidence was led in respect of the killing of Mr Zuma.

MR MALAN: That's why I'm asking.

CHAIRPERSON: We are familiar with the time frames.  I'm not sure whether we will be in a position to be familiar with the times frames in respect of the other exhibits but with regard to Mr Zuma it's March 1995 as I recall the evidence by Mr Mngomezula.

MR MALAN: Yes.

MS MOODLEY: My intention of handing in these exhibits don't relate purely to the - it relates to the particular incident but as well as contextualising Wembezi prior to the period under issue here and subsequent so it tells you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we would be more interested though with the period immediately prior to the incident.  Are they all addressing that particular period?

MS MOODLEY: The actual incident as well that is reflected in one those monitors.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes?  With regard to Annexure D(i), I am unable to state when this particular incident you have drawn ...(intervention)

MS MOODLEY: That's why I wanted to read it into the record because it's not easy to actually keep track of it but if you want to ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, I am quite familiar with what you've already read into the record and this one is written Wembezi so it should be quite clear to all and sundry to see that this is the one that we have to focus our attention to but it doesn't give us a time frame.

MR DE JAGER: You told us D(i) relates to April 1994?

MS MOODLEY: Right.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, where did you get that, I'm quite familiar with the time frames.

MS MOODLEY: It's on the cover of The Monitor.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh.

MR DE JAGER: And they then say for the past five months so it's say from December 1993 to April 1994.

MS MOODLEY: Yes, just before the elections.

MR DE JAGER: Yes.

MS MOODLEY: Are these all the exhibits you intend to hand up, Ms Moodley?

MS MOODLEY: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS MOODLEY: But I would like to just make this submission in relation to the exhibits?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS MOODLEY: My job as legal representative for the applicant in an application for amnesty is to see that I attempt to satisfy the objectives in terms of Section 20 and what has already been led before this Commission might well not satisfy perfectly four square exactly the requirements but I do believe that those exhibits would supplement those aspects of the applicants, both the applicants' applications which would at first blush appear not to satisfy the granting of amnesty and the effect thereof.
	It is very easy to sit before the Commission and take a magnifying glass to this particular incident and actually lose the essence of what the situation was at the time.  There is an easy interpretation to convert into a criminal, a plain cold calculated criminal act and I think we would be failing in our duty if we were going to take that particular tack and accept that as being the actions of the applicants in this matter.  I think that they were the foot soldiers that were acting under the command of an official within the organisation which actually led them to commit the offences that they then went on to commit.