Human Rights Violation Hearings — Tembisa — 1996-11-28

MS MKHIZE: We like to thank you very much for your painful story. I will try to ask you a few questions. In the beginning you told us that you suffered a lot from 1976 because of Vus' involvement in the struggle.  We also heard that even today you fear for your life by being here. I believe you know that we have witness protection programmes?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes I know that.

MS MKHIZE: If you are sure that you need some protection, you have to make it clear before the Commission before you leave.  I'll ask a few questions with regard to the day your brother was killed. In short, can you explain or maybe I should start here, you said Vus got out and he came back.  At the time when he got out, was he trained in the handling of arms or what training did he get outside and how did he come back to the country?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Vus got some help.  He's the only man at home, my mother got Priscilla Jani to get Vus back to the country.  That's how he was brought back. When he left the country he was an SRC member.  He left the country because he was harassed by the Boers.  He was doing Standard nine when he skipped the country.

MS MKHIZE: Thanks.  I was asking whether he was trained in the handling of firearms.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I don't know about that.

MS MKHIZE: You said they formed an SDU unit, you mean the Self Defence Units?
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PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: That's correct.

MS MKHIZE: Did they have some guide lines as to their duties?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I would say that Vus himself, he was a patroller.  If someone's shot he will organise and talk to the Red Cross and he will report all the incidents that were happening.

MS MKHIZE: Is there any person who was an SDU member
who was not handling arms?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I'm not sure whether they were having guns or firearms.

MS MKHIZE: When Vus was killed, who was this Eli Khumalo, was he a member of the SDU or was he a member of any other organisation?  As you said he had a lawyer Priscilla Jana, did he take the case.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: We tried, we made an appointment with him, we couldn't find him. We talked with his receptionist and they told us that they would call us and up to today there's no case.

MS MKHIZE: Was there any inquest?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes there was a case in Tembisa Police Station.  We reported the matter.

MS MKHIZE: Did you hear anything from them?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: No we didn't hear anything and this Eli has not been arrested and he's boasting about this.

MS MKHIZE: Who was this person, who was guarding?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: It was a student.

MS MKHIZE: According to your opinion, do you think Vus' shooting was connected to what he was doing in the community.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I'm not sure but I will say that police told
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him that they would not kill him with their own hands but some people in the community are going to kill him.  Eli was a family friend.  We stayed with him, we were sharing everything with him.  I think the police used him because he knew Vus very well and he knew us very well too. They did not look for someone from far away, they just used the person next to us.

MS MKHIZE: In the beginning you said you know him.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I said he wasn't involved in the struggle but we were staying in the same place and we were living together as friends.

MS MKHIZE: The other one Mtalana, how was he killed?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: He was shot by Eli's younger brother by the name of Lucky.

MS MKHIZE: Is it possible that the one who shot Vusi was angry because they were guarding that young man?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: I think so because Vus also heard them call the police.  Maybe they thought they might stand as witnesses against them.

MS MKHIZE: We'd like to thank you. This is a painful story. I will take you back to the chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Hlengiwe. Joyce?

MS SEROKE: Phumzile, here in your statement you say Eli's brother Lucky Khumalo is the one who shot Zanele Mtalana?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes Eli killed my brother and Lucky was the one who shot Mtalani.

MS SEROKE: Where is Lucky now?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: He is still in the township, he was never arrested as well.

MS SEROKE: You say again you heard white policemen saying in Afrikaans to Eli and Eli said that he was going to kill
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Vusi.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes they were standing at our street and some had gone to take Mtalane, and these white men were standing next to a house and Eli said,"I will shoot them", and the other white policeman said, "Kill him and then we we will go our way as if we saw nothing".

MS SEROKE: Did you hear them?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes we did, me and my daughter were standing next to the window.

MS SEROKE: You mention the manner in which Vusi was shot, do you have a copy of the doctor's report regarding the post mortem explaining about all these wounds?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: There is a copy. It's here at the policeman.  The mortuary did give us and his photographs as well.  They showed all the wounds in his body because I insisted that they should take a photograph of him.

MS SEROKE: Can we get a copy if we request it from the policeman?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes you can. I do know the policeman even though I don't know his surname.  I know the policeman who has this copy, he showed me everything and I saw everything.

MS SEROKE: Are there people that you know definitely that they saw Eli shooting Vusi.

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: Yes the whole township saw him. Even he himself doesn't hide this.  He revealed this to us and said that he's the one who shot Vusi.

MS SEROKE: You have given these peoples' names, can we get their addresses as well?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: And those people who were with Vusi when he was shot. Although two are late already and the one is not around, but there is one who is still around here, and he
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picked up the magazine of the firearm and he tried to run but Eli took it and he finished Vusi off again.

MS SEROKE: Lastly you said these telephone threats that should you come to this Commission, is it from a male or a female?

PHUMZILE PRISCILLA NTIMBANE: It is a male voice but I couldn't hear his voice clearly, I couldn't identify the voice but it is a male voice.