Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-09-14

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: You also say that Bongani had your 303 rifle and a 9mm pistol, is that right?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: You say that you were looking for him but you couldn't find him?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, you say in paragraph ninety one (91), and I quote
"We attacked his home and shot his mother."
Now, is it not so that you've instructed me that that is a mistake on your part and you were not involved in this attack, and that you withdraw your amnesty application in respect of this offence as a consequence of you saying that you were not part of this attack?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I was no longer in Ermelo.  I was operating at Esikhawini.

MR WILLS: When this attack occurred?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: So, this is a mistake in your affidavit?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is.

MR WILLS: Yes.  The final aspect I want to deal with, Mr Hlongwane, is what you briefly describe in paragraph ninety four (94).  That's on page one hundred and sixty seven (167).  I think you've got that page.  Now, you were in Ermelo for just over, what appears to be about an eighteen (18) month period.  How did you survive financially when you were in Ermelo?  Where did you get your money from?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: In the first meeting it was clearly explained by Noah, who talked to the councillors saying that this person will be paid, will be remunerated and it's for us to make sure that he gets paid.  I ended up working in Ermelo and Davel.  The mayor Mr Hlatswayo and Bonjesi in Davel, they were people who will collect this money at each and every month end.

MR WILLS: And how much did you get paid?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: It was eight hundred rand (R800,00).

MR WILLS: And did that salary remain the same from the time you were in Ermelo right through your period whilst you were in Davula?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes.

MR WILLS: Did you ever get paid any extra money in respect of any specific incident or was it that you just got this salary?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: No, I only received that money, the salary.  I never received any other money outside of this.

MR WILLS: And you say you also got groceries to last you the month?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, the grocery was done by Charles Maseko.  If not by him, it will be Mr Ngobeni to buy the grocery.  The person who was cooking for us was Charles Maseko's wife.

MR WILLS: Okay.  So, when you were in Ermelo who actually handed your eight hundred rand (R800,00) to you at the end of each month?  Who gave you that?  I take it that this was in cash?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it was cash.  It was Noah Mqobakazi.

MR WILLS: And when you were in Davula who paid you the eight hundred rand (R800,00)?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: It was Mr Mkhonza.

MR WILLS: Now finally, Mr Hlongwane, can you just try and remember to tell us where you got your firearms and ammunition from?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: The white man who used to be in the company of Roux used to give me ammunition or they will give it to Noah.  Sometimes we will get them from someone who had shops.  It was Mr Judah Zwane.  He's known as Mangede, popularly known and Mangede.

MR WILLS: And did you get firearms from anyone else or did you get firearms from anybody?  Who supplied your firearms?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: The R1 which I still remember well which was to be used, it was brought by Mangede Judah Zwane.  The 9mm pistol, the ammunitions were from Von Zweel, Maree, Meyer and I will hide them in a water drain, but when they were raiding the township, Roux will tell us.  We will take all the arms and the bombs, we will take them all from the Black Cats in Estancia to Roux.  He was a policeman so he wouldn't be searched.  So after the raiding in the township I will take them back to the respective boys in the township.  And that's how I lived my life in Ermelo.

MR WILLS: You said in the beginning when we started here, I think paragraph ninety four (94).  Sorry, if the Committee will just bear with me.  Sorry, paragraph fifty three (53).  You say that Noah gave you the 9mm and the AK when you first arrived in Ermelo.  Paragraph fifty three (53) on page one hundred and fifty two (152).

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: And you say this person Judah gave you an R1 and did he give you any other firearm?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, he gave me a nine short.

MR WILLS: What calibre?  Was it a handgun?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, a handgun.

MR WILLS: Was it a 9mm?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, 9mm pistol.

MR WILLS: And you also mentioned that you got the 303 from Chief Mathaba?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, he's a superintendent or a super.  Mathaba went to this superintendent who worked for the KwaZulu Government and this man gave us the 303.

MR WILLS: Yes.  And then did you get any weapons from anybody else?  I'm not worried about ammunition, I'm talking about weapons, firearms.  Can you remember?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I got the 3.8 from Bonjesi.

MR WILLS: Who is Bonjesi.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: It's Mr Mkhonza.

MR WILLS: Did you get any firearms from anybody else or is that all you can remember?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: This is all I can remember at this present moment.

MR WILLS: Yes, thank you, Mr Chairperson.  That will be the evidence-in-chief.  I wonder if I could ask at this stage, there's one or two things that I'd like to just canvass with the witness before we finalise.  I see it's almost the lunch adjournment.  I think that I'm finished.  I don't think that there will be anything else that I'll have to raise.  I'd request, and I have briefly raised this with some of my colleagues around the table, that if we do finish at this stage, if we could start cross-examination after lunch.

CHAIRPERSON: I see it's now twenty to one.  Would it be convenient for us to resume at half past one?  Take the lunch adjournment now and then start again at half past one.

MR WILLS: That would be convenient for me.  Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: We will now take the lunch adjournment and we will start again at half past one.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: (s.u.o.)

CHAIRPERSON: What are these documents, Mr Wills?

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  This is the plea that I spoke of earlier.

CHAIRPERSON: So that will be EXHIBIT E2.

MR WILLS: (cont)
	Yes, thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Mr Hlongwane, you've got a document in front of you there which has got an "F" in the top corner.  Can you see that?  Do you confirm that this is the plea that you ... (intervention)

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I can see.

MR WILLS: ... entered in respect of the trial where December was killed and other persons, the trial you referred to in September 1997 in Ermelo.

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, it is correct.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  I beg leave to hand this up.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: That plea in terms of section 112 with then be received as EXHIBIT E2.
PLEA IN TERMS OF SECTION 112 HANDED IN MARKED EXHIBIT E2

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  Just one issue.  Mr Hlongwane, we've heard over the last couple of hours the horrific deeds and numerous attacks and murders and killings that you were involved in during 1990 and 1991 in Ermelo.  Do you have anything to say to the victims of these attacks?

ISRAEL NYONI HLONGWANE: Yes, I will say I deeply apologise and I'm asking forgiveness for all the things that I have done.  I know it's difficult, but I would like to request that they please forgive me.  I didn't do all these things intentionally.  I was forced to do it and I was politically motivated, and I was trying to protect my place against from the communists, attacking of the communists.  Thanks.

MR WILLS: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  That will be the evidence.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WILLS