Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

COMMISSIONER: Where did they shoot you, Mr Mthethwa?  Where on your body?

WITNESS:   They shot me on one side, on the left-hand side, and the other one on the right-hand thigh, and the other one on the left arm through.

COMMISSIONER: Did they shoot you with guns with bullets, or was it a shotgun which shoots small pellets?

WITNESS:   They were shooting me truly using the rifles.

COMMISSIONER: And do you think that they intended to kill you on that day?  They fired bullets right at you?

WITNESS:   They intended to kill me.  They actually praised themselves, saying, "We have already started."  Little did they know that I was safe.

COMMISSIONER: So did they believe that you were dead?  Were you lying on the ground, lying as if you were dead?

WITNESS:   Yes, they thought I was dead.

COMMISSIONER: And then you heard them saying things to each other, praising each other because they had killed you?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did praise themselves.  One other said, "I feel like just shooting you again."

COMMISSIONER: And then what happened?  How did you manage to survive?  Did you go to hospital?  Who took you to hospital?

WITNESS:   I was admitted into the hospital.  They operated me, getting out - extracting the bullets from body. Who took you to the hospital?   ---   The police came and they called the ambulance, and the ambulance came and took me into the hospital.

COMMISSIONER: And did you make a statement to the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, I gave them the statement, but I never got to see it.

COMMISSIONER: And did you mention the names of those people who had shot you?  Did you give the police those names?

WITNESS:  Yes, I did make mention of the names.

COMMISSIONER: And what happened about that?  Was there a court case in which those people were charged?

WITNESS:   No further steps were taken.

COMMISSIONER: Which police did you report it to?  Was it Port Shepstone Police Station?

WITNESS:   No, the very police who are here, from here in Port Shepstone.

COMMISSIONER: So is there a station here in Marburg, or did you report it in town?

WITNESS:   No, we were still using the police station in town, in Port Shepstone, not the one here.

COMMISSIONER: I see.  And do you remember the name of the policeman who was meant to be investigating this case?

WITNESS:   I would be lying, because when they were investigating I was still injured, lying in the hospital.

COMMISSIONER: How long did you stay in hospital?

WITNESS:   I was admitted on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.  On Saturday it seemed like they were discharging me.  On Monday I was discharged, and the person who shot me was already dead because he was shot as well.

COMMISSIONER: And before you were shot how many of these camps do you think you attended?  How many did they make you attend?

WITNESS:   I used to go often, and at the same time this was against my wish, you know, my will, and I started saying, "No, I am not going to go to the camp any more."

COMMISSIONER: What did you used to do at those camps.

WITNESS:   No, you just sit back and they will tell you you are watching, watching the neighbour.  Then you will wonder what is it that you are watching.

COMMISSIONER: And were you required to be armed, carrying some arms or weapons?

WITNESS:   No, you will just bring your weapons and sticks the Inkatha use.  They used to have guns.  The ones who were forcing us to go camping they used to have guns.

COMMISSIONER: And who was organising those camps, do you know?  Was there one person or some people who were organising them in that area?

WITNESS:   That's the very one who got shot who was after the camping.

COMMISSIONER: And then after you recovered were you able to go back to work for some time before you retired?

WITNESS:   Yes, I did go back to work, and I was working for a long time.  But at the same time I could feel that I was no longer fine and in a good condition as I used to be, and I got on pension.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much, Mr Mthethwa.  I'll just ask my colleagues if there are any questions that they wish to ask.

MR LACKS: Thanks, Mr Lester.  Mr Mthethwa, one of our investigators got hold of the police, and they mention a case.  Do you have another name, a second name at all?

WITNESS:   What name?  What about the name?

MR LACKS: The initials we have is M E Mthethwa.

WITNESS:   I have two names.  It's Makhosezwe and Elliot.

MR LACKS: Just for the record, and so you can know this, your case was referred to the police and we've got the reference number of that case.  The investigating officer was a Detective Sergeant Mngadi.

WITNESS:   Yes.  As I have said I was not there.  I just heard that they gave a statement.

MR LACKS: According to information we've been able to ascertain so far a person by the name of Mbongwa Shezi was charged at court.  Do you know that person?

WITNESS:   Yes, I know him very well, but I never heard anything.  Because I never even talked to him.  I don't know what happened in the court of law.

MR LACKS: Was he one of the people that attacked you?

WITNESS:   That's correct, at the camp, and also he was one of the three who shot me, but I never saw him when he was killed.

MR LACKS: The case against him was withdrawn in court, it didn't proceed.

WITNESS:   Those were there, I saw them, but I know for sure he was one of them.

MR LACKS: In your statement to us you've mentioned three names, Majola, Mhlongo and Nzama.  Now, which one of those is Shezi?

WITNESS:   Shezi is Mbongwa, the very Mbongwa.  That's the Shezi.

MR LACKS: I am confused because we've got three different names here, Majola, Mhlongo and Nzama.

WITNESS:   Those are the ones I saw.  I did not see him in person.  I used just to see him in the camp.

MR LACKS: I see, so in other words there were more than just those three that attacked you?

WITNESS:   I only saw three, and there was a car parked and Majola's wife was in the car when I was being shot.

MR LACKS: So you don't know how it is that Shezi came to be charged when you didn't see him at all on that day?

WITNESS:  They belonged to one group, but when I was shot I didn't see him but I saw the three.

MR LACKS: We will try and follow that up further to see why he was the one that went to court when he seems to have had nothing to do with the case, and why the others didn't appear in court.  Thank you.

WITNESS:   I never even talked to him inasfar as why I was shot.  Maybe it's one of the other things that he used to do as well.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Mthethwa, you said that you retired early because you could no longer work as you used to work.  Was that because of your injuries, your bullet wounds, or do you just feel that you retired because you were getting old?  Why did you ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   Yes, the bullets did contribute.

COMMISSIONER: Did you receive any medical treatment as a result of your shooting, or ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   The last time I went to the doctor it was the time when they were extracting the bullet, and I know I can no longer go to see the doctors for any treatment because I am not employed.

COMMISSIONER: Do you feel that you still need - you should see a doctor?  Do you want to see a doctor?  Are you still suffering in such a way that you need to see a doctor?

WITNESS:   Yes, I think doctors will be of great help.  I do feel pains from my operation.  It tells me I am - something is not yet right.

COMMISSIONER: Anything else that you wish to add to what you've said here, or what you've said in your statement?  Is there anything else you wish to say about this?

WITNESS:   I will not say I will like to add anything to what I have already said, because what I told you is exactly what happened and there is nothing beyond that.