Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1997-03-18

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes we did that.

MS COLLETT: Can you mention some of the places that you burnt, some of the people whose houses you burnt?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes, I can.   Mr Mbuzo Lifeni's house was burnt, one out of the two houses that he had.  He tried to defend himself by fighting against the youth with an axe, but the youth overpowered him and he died.
	The house of Mr Mona who was the Chief was very difficult to burn because of the Security.  And the Security was shooting at that time.  His shop was burnt down.  It was not in his house.  It was burnt down to ashes.
	Mr Hotozo Jesele's house it was all burnt down.  All five rooms.  His combi, a 16-seater was burnt down to ashes as well and his Isuzu van.  He also tried to fight against the youth but he was overpowered.  
	Mr Msimbiti Mlindi's house, who was a member of the 
ADM was not easy to burn down because his son was a member of the ANC Youth League.  He begged with us not to burn down his house.   We must only do whatever we want to do to his father and therefore we assaulted his father and he sustained injuries.
	Mr Mbhebe as well we burnt his three-roomed house as well to ashes.  He also tried to defend himself and the  EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
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family but we overpowered them, but they managed to hit one member of the ANC Youth League, Mr Tsehu who was found dead the following day.   He was hit, they said that they extracted his eye.
	And there was a Mrs Nohombile Mphambane.  Her house was not burnt down but only shattered her windows, because at that time the Brigadier's security forces were already there, but her son pleaded that we must not burn the house because only she was an ADM member not himself and his father, but we had to run away at the time because the security forces had already arrived.

MS COLLETT: Did you regard these acts that you performed in the name of the ANC Youth League as essential for political emancipation?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: I will say so as a member of the ANC Youth League.   All theses things that we did, we had hope that this would have a landmark on the politics.

MS COLLETT: After you committed these particular incidents did you actually go to the ANC structure office in King Williamstown?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes, we did go there.

MS COLLETT: Did you inform them of what you had done?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: When we got to the ANC's buildings in King
Williamstown we told all the comrades who were there as to what happened.

MS COLLETT: Did anybody express disapproval of your actions?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Amongst the comrades who were there no one criticised or disapproved but they just provided us with security.

MS COLLETT: In other words you believed that they
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supported what you had done as a main structure?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes it is so.

MS COLLETT: What happened after these incidents?  Did you go into hiding for a while?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Each and every individual escaped because we knew that by killing in the community one knew that it was endangering one's life.   Therefore we ran to different places, Cape Town, Dimbaza and all other places.

MS COLLETT: And the ANC main structure was aware of this?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes they were aware.

MS COLLETT: Subsequent to this there was a meeting at which you were not present, is that correct, which led to the incident for which you seek amnesty?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes there was a meeting that was held on the 26th of April 1993 and I was absent.

MS COLLETT: But you became aware of the fact that this meeting decided that the deceased in this particular incident should be killed?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes I had the knowledge.   I said whilst I was on my way to school I met members of the ANC Youth League, it was round about six o' clock in the morning.   They told me on the bus about the decision taken and I supported the
idea after they had given me the reasons as to why they wanted to kill the deceased.

MS COLLETT: And is it correct that you thereafter associated yourself with the killing of the deceased in this matter?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes I did.

MS COLLETT: Can you tell us what particularly you did to the deceased?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: The deceased, we went her house.  They saw us EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
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approaching her house, toyi-toying on the 27th.  She ran away with her two children and approached the veld and we chased after her.  We found her near a river and we caught her.  The comrades who caught her were around about 10 to 15.  She was already bleeding at that time on the head and on the chest.

MS COLLETT: Is that when you arrived, she was already bleeding?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes she was already bleeding when I arrived.

MS COLLETT: And what did you do to her?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: The comrades came with her towards me.  They were bringing her to the group that I was with.   I was amongst the first group that was going to arrive at the incident.   And when I got there I wanted to find out where were they taking her because I said we had decided that we are going to kill Mrs Mphambane, but then they said that we are bringing her to the comrades.
	I picked up two stones.   I hit her twice on her head and on her chest.  She never fell.  And I picked up another stone and hit her on her head, but she did not fall.  I picked up the bigger stone of all the crowd and hit her on her head and she landed on her backside and that was her final fall.  As she died there.

MS COLLETT: Was your intention to assist in killing her?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: My intention was to assist in killing her according to the decision taken by the comrades.

MS COLLETT: Now was this lady who was killed an ADM member?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes she was an ADM member.

MS COLLETT: At this stage I wish to call another one of the youths to testify as to what actually took place at the
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meeting prior to the death of this lady.
	I have finished with this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MISS COLLETT

HASSAN MALL: Hold it.   There may be questions that may be asked of this witness before you call the next one.

MS COLLETT: I have no problem with that, Judge.
	I might just indicate Judge, that he was not part of the actual meeting where the decision was taken to kill this lady.

HASSAN MALL: Yes it is quite clear from his evidence that he took part and made sure that she was killed.

MS COLLETT: That is quite so.

HASSAN MALL: Mr Brink have you any questions to put to the witness?

MR BRINK: Yes, I will not be long Mr Chairman.

MR BRINK: You've told the Committee that the deceased was a member of the ADM, is that the African Democratic Movement?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes it is so.

MR BRINK: Was the ADM a formal party or organisation with structures such as the ANC had?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: ADM was not a similar party like the ANC, but I do not have full knowledge of their motives, but as the ANC we were against the leadership of the Chief.	We as the ANC we believed that she formed part of the past regime that suppressed the citizen of South Africa. She was a symbol of apartheid.

MR BRINK: Did the deceased's husband hold office in the ADM or was he merely a supporter?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Mrs Mphambane was known as the organiser of the African Democratic Movement and her actions showed that EAST LONDON HEARING	AMNESTY/E CAPE
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clearly.

MR BRINK: Now, obviously the ADM was unpopular as far as you and the ANC Youth League were concerned, but can you tell me whether there was any large-scale support for the ADM in your region even though you objected to that organisation?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: They had very few supporters.

MR BRINK: Are you saying that it was a minority trying to control the majority?

SAKOMZI BHEQESI: Yes it is so Sir.