Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-17

MR LOWIES: We're in your hands.

CHAIRPERSON: I think there's a general consensus that we can go toward 5.

MR STRYDOM: If we have to Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll take a break at about 3 o'clock for about 15 to 20 minutes.

MR LOWIES: Thank you Chairman, I'm indebted to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes alright.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Molete, may I remind you that you're still under oath?

MIRIAM MOLETE: (s.u.o.)   Yes, thank you.

MR STRYDOM: (continues)   	Thank you Chairperson.
	I'm going to continue reading certain portions of your statement and want your comment please?
"I then grabbed my child and I told them that I would rather die than my child.  I fell onto the ground.  They then left the shack saying "USotho, USotho."

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: Then thereafter you say
"After their departure we ran towards the dumping site for safety."
Is that how it happened?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I don't understand that one, can you repeat the question again?

MR STRYDOM: You said that you fell to the ground, then the people left, they said "USotho, USotho" and then you went to the dumping site, is that sequentially correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It is not all correct, there are portions that are not correct.

MR STRYDOM: What portion is not correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: After they had left they shouted their slogan.  I tried to apply first aid to my child, then I went outside to look for my husband so that part does not appear on what you have read.  Then after this we went to the dumping place.

MR STRYDOM: Is that the only portion that is left out in the sequence of events that night?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes that is correct.

MR STRYDOM: What about the two people, the two White people in camouflage clothing that you saw?  When was that then?

MIRIAM MOLETE: When I threw myself on the ground I pretended to be dead.  When they shouted "USotho" all the people left even this one who was inside the shack left.

MR STRYDOM: What I want to point out to you is that you don't make mention in this statement like in your evidence here before the Committee about these two people in camouflage clothing.  Can you give an explanation?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I said that I mentioned that but I don't know why it is not written there.

MR STRYDOM: And even if I asked you now to tell us what happened at the stage when you fell to the ground if there's anything left out and you again did not mention these people in camouflage clothing?  Why do you keep on forgetting them?

MIRIAM MOLETE: We had not yet arrived at that question.

MR STRYDOM: But you testified today if I remember correctly in your question in chief, when you fell to the ground you saw these people with the camouflage clothing.  So why didn't you mention them when I asked you what happened in sequence at the stage when you fell to the ground?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I heard you asking me whether when after I fell down and left for the dumping place, you asked me to comment on that and I said there is something that is left.

MR STRYDOM: You saw these people with the camouflage clothing before you went to the dumping ground, is that correct?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I said when I threw myself on the ground with the baby I saw them standing at the door so when this other man left the other people outside shouted "USotho" and everybody including these two guys left.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you see these two White men before you fell to the ground or after that?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I threw myself on the ground and then when I lifted my head and then I saw these two men standing outside but I could see them, I was inside then.

MR STRYDOM: This dumping site, you must indicate a direction, is the dumping site towards - further east from Slovo Park, that's away from Boipatong township, you can have a look at Exhibit J?

MIRIAM MOLETE: The place is just behind Slovo Park.

MR STRYDOM: Yes but if you say behind is it further away from - let me put it this way, is it Boipatong side or the other side towards the east?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It is behind the Slovo Park shacks.

MR STRYDOM: Is it possible to indicate on Exhibit J where you will find that dump?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I cannot.

MR STRYDOM: Is it off the map towards the right as you will look at it?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I'm unable to see.

MR STRYDOM: Just start as a starting point with your house number 17 or the house you slept in that night, 17.  Can you see it?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

MR STRYDOM: Well if you look at your house, this dumping site is that towards the right as you look at it?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Can you repeat again, the question?

MR STRYDOM: Do you see your house, number 17 on the map?

CHAIRPERSON: No, I don't think it's but as I understand her evidence, he pointed out in the area of number 15 I think that's what he ...(indistinct).

MR STRYDOM: Yes, let's just take number 15, the 15 that's marked on the map.  Do you see house 15?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

MR STRYDOM: All I want to know, this dumping site, if you must take in relation to that position of that house, where would you find it, towards the right or more towards Bakwena Street and Boipatong?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It's very far, that place is behind the shacks at the back.  You move through that passage at number 15 and number 17 and there are also other shacks that you have to pass through before you arrive at that dumping place.

MR STRYDOM: But the question is which direction would you move, would you move towards the right as you look at it on the map?  Or do you go to Boipatong side?

MIRIAM MOLETE: It's not in the direction of Boipatong.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have to move further into Slovo Park?

MIRIAM MOLETE: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.

MR STRYDOM: At what stage did you see the Hippo before you went to the dumping ground or after or on your way there?

MIRIAM MOLETE: Before you enter to the dumping place.

MR STRYDOM: Because in your statement you said that the people left after saying "USotho, USotho" and then you said you went towards the dumping site for safety.  So the point I want to make is this important aspect about the Hippo is also not in this statement?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I said after all this I applied first aid to my child and then I went outside to look for my husband and then when I was at the back of my sister's shed I saw this Hippo.

MR STRYDOM: Yes, now on the third page of your statement you said
"I will not be able to point out any of the suspects because it was dark.  I was confused and they were too many."
Is that statement a correct statement?

MIRIAM MOLETE: No, it's not correct.

MR STRYDOM: What's wrong with that portion of the statement?

MIRIAM MOLETE: The portion that is incorrect is where you say I said could not point out those people because it was at night and that portion that reads that I said I was confused I did not say that I could not be able to point them because I was confused.  That's not what I said.

MR STRYDOM: Do you remember what you said?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I don't remember.

MR STRYDOM: But if you can't remember what you said how can you remember what you did not say?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I am referring to that portion that you have just read, I don't remember me saying that.

MR STRYDOM: Tell me, during the attack just thereafter, weren't you confused?

MIRIAM MOLETE: After how long?

MR STRYDOM: You know, during the course of that night, during the attack and during the course of that night before the next day weren't you confused?

MIRIAM MOLETE: I don't know because I was at a hospital on a bed.

MR STRYDOM: Yes but before you went to the hospital, were you confused?

MIRIAM MOLETE: We went to the hospital after the attack, we boarded the ambulance so I don't understand how should I answer that question because we were at that dumping place.  I was afraid at that stage.