Human Rights Violation Hearings — Messina — 1997-04-08

THOMAS MANTHATA: I came hear to tell you about something which disturbed me very much.  It was said before and I was called by the police and I was asked about the letter which I didn't know about.  I did tell them that I did not know anything about that letter and I think the letter was telling about something which happened in Messina.   When I was writing the letter, I think I wrote my name there and my address so that anybody who wanted to see me could find me easily.  Mr Klopper told me that one old woman came to see him and he told me that I was the person that wrote the letter and I said, no, I did not know the letter.  They left me for a long time and in 1973, I was called again.  When I was called, the man who called me was called Strydom.  He was a senior man who had many epaulettes.  He came in with Mr Thelele and after he called my name.  He said, who's Manthata and I said, that's me.  He said you must know that here I arrest people and if I arrest you, I also send them to Mr Mandela in Robben Island and I said you can do that to me.  When we got inside the house and after that he told me.  He took out a letter in his hand.  He said, do you know this letter ?  And I said, Sir, I do not know that letter and I don't want to talk about something I don't know.  Then he therefore , took out that letter and he brought out that letter.  He said, do you know the law ?  When I spoke to him, I said, I don't know the law and then he stood up.  I'm going to call Klopper and then he went out to call Klopper and he came to me.  He says, this person says he doesn't know the law.  Klopper also could not tell me that, his story and after that they said to me, you say you don't know law and he said he was going to form an Agenda and another man came and brought the law book and I asked him if  he could borrow me this law so that I could understand my rights and he refused.  I then requested that book again and also the interpreter told him.  He was the interpreter for Klopper and they said, this man has spoken a lot and thereafter,  in another day when we formed the Advisory Board he brought this book again and I said to him, borrow me this book and he refused and I said, if this person is refusing to give you this book, would you take it by force.  That's how things were and now, and that gentleman or he is the one who asked Klopper and thereafter I said I bring the evidence.  I said I like Klopper.  I do not want to hide anything,  I'd like to speak the truth.  When I said, I like him, because he came to my house and he took, he told that guy and he agreed and he gave me a dove and  I again gave him a present, as a dove and he took it to his home.  He came back to my house again and I gave him a chicken as a present and he took it to his home again.  I asked him if he liked it.  He said yes and I really to asked him, if I was a bad person, would I really give him a present ?  Why would I do that?
 Then the, this guy who was sent from Pietersberg, who was known as Strydom in Pietersberg.  I'm not sure about the name.  This guy came to me and he told me that he understood my story and he told me that he'll try to go and tell his seniors.  What surprised me, was that this guy was not taking any statements down and I suspected that he was the person who was not delivering the messages properly.  He said to me, I could go home and he released me.

RUSSELL ALLY: Mr Manthata, one of the events that you, you speak about in your statement which you say led to this in, attention the police being interested in you and questioning you, was a strike that you speak about at a, at the Messina mining fields.  That's what you say in your statement.  I was involved in a strike at Messina mining fields and this is round about 1973.  Could you just tell us a little bit about this strike and, and what the, what the consequences of this strike were ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: That strike was, we formed, we started striking at the mining fields in 1943.  Major John, our Manager.  I was in Cambell mine.  He told the employees that, when we, we must take our tickets to him so that he can give us money so he started not giving people money, even if they submitted the tickets to him.  He ignored the employees and people got angry and took all their tickets back to his office.  Later, the people realized that this man was ignoring them.  They were people from Njasaland.  They went aside to have a caucus and they discussed, they decided that they were not going to work the following day.  We boycotted the following day and these people decided that they would beat anybody who was going to work that day.  Most people didn't go to work that day and later we were sitting outside.  People were called to the camp and some men came to us and one of the guys was, was one of those who we were told that he was beating people up in Pretoria.  He came with lots of men and they started arresting people.  One of the policemen came to me and looked at, at me but he, he'd, he ignored me later.
 Later when they were arresting people, our big boss he was, was ignoring me, because  I used to disturb him a lot and shout to him, because he, he didn't want me next to him.  He actually wanted to arrest me.  He wanted me to be arrested.  God told  me that I must leave that place immediately.  I left and later on they were arresting everybody.  They arrested about a hundred people and they took them to Louis Trichardt.  
 There was a man called Alfuous Madiba.  He was a communist.  He was a real communist.  He came to us with other three men in 1938 and they were telling us about politics.  Later when we were discussing this matters, Alfuous when he arrived late, he told me that he tried to ask for a lift from those men.  They couldn't give us a lift.  He asked me where, where did these people go to and I told him that they were arrested.  They were taken to Louis Trichardt and he said he'll go there to see them.  Actually, Major John, when he wanted to arrest me, he read something  on Guardian and he wanted me to get arrested, because  I said something on that newspaper and he asked me at some stage that, where was I taking all those newspapers and I told him, they were not mine, they were from Dan and it, I did, do it, they did not belong to me.  That's how he started to hate me.  Alfuous went there to, to, to buy food and bread for those people who were arrested.  This Alfuous Madiba is late.  I actually don't know where he ended up.  Thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you, Mr Manthata.  Just, just one last question and if you could just very briefly tell us a, a little bit about your involvement in what describe as the  Messina Advisory Board and you say that this also let to the police focusing their attention on you, visiting your house, threatening to arrest you.  Can you tell us about this Messina Advisory Board.  What it did and, and what your role in it was ?