Amnesty Hearings — Thohoyandou — 1999-06-28

CHAIRPERSON: Were you treated and discharged?  Given medicine?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: I was not even given medicine, I was taken to Chilitsini Hospital by instruction of the magistrate after I appeared in court and told the magistrate that the statement I was forced to signed was duly induced from me through torture.  So that's when I was taken there for the doctor to note all those things.

CHAIRPERSON: You were basically referred there by the State?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Yes, that's right.

CHAIRPERSON: And so, you hadn't gone to the doctor on your own volition, your own private doctor for treatment or whatever?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: I didn't have access to the private doctor because I was under solitary confinement.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you, Chairperson.  Rev Phoshwana, you have heard the evidence of the applicants that they deny having pulled your hair from the private parts and they also deny that they applied electrical shocks on your private parts.  What do you say to this?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: It saddens me because I had expected that they will say the truth and nothing else but the truth.  As I said, Mr Netshivale was the first one to lay his hands on my head and that's why his face never left my face because it was my first time to see how a human being can pull somebody's hair in that manner which is so cruel, beard and puberty hair.
	And the attachment of electric shocks on my private parts, I'm not making it up.  I believe the medical doctors will attest to that because the doctors noted those scars.

SISI KHAMPEPE: But you can't say precisely who attached any of those electrical devices to ...(intervention)

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: It's only 12 January, on 12 January when I was not covered that I saw Mr Nesamari attaching literally before I even passed out again.

CHAIRPERSON: When you say attached, attached it to your private parts ...(intervention)

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: ...(indistinct)

SISI KHAMPEPE: ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: ...not your earlobe or anything.

SISI KHAMPEPE: To your private parts?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's right.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Yes, and who was present when he was making those attachments ...(intervention)

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: He was with the late John Managa.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Were they the only people involved on 12 January?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: On the ...(indistinct), those are the two who were present.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

MS MTANGA: Rev Phoshwana, is there anything you would like to add to your evidence regarding the methods?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: The other method which may not be related to the private parts was the elbowing on 5 January when I was transported from Tshakhuma to the police station, Mr Managa and Mr Ramaligela were always elbowing me because I had been sandwiched in their van.
	Secondly, when I was tortured they also referred to the fact that if I don't co-operate, I will drown in a bucket and follow Chipiwa Mohape who drowned in that particular bucket.

MS MTANGA: Is there anything else that you want to add to your evidence?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Unless if there are questions.

MS MTANGA: Does this conclude your evidence then?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Yes.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Reverend.  Mr Meyer, do you have any questions you'd like to ask the witness?

MR MEYER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, yes I do.

MR MEYER: Reverend, you also testified before the Human Rights Violations Committee, is that correct?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's correct.

MR MEYER: Now, I have exactly the same problem with your evidence as I had with that of Dr Farisani.  If you look at page 143 of the bundle.

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Yes sir.

MR MEYER: You mention there that the electric shock treatment was used on you and you say then, it's the third line
"Then they clipped electrodes on my earlobes."

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Correct.

MR MEYER: Why didn't you say they were attached to your private parts?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: If it's not mentioned, it could be omission.  But I remember giving this statement to the person who was taking the statement from me before these matters were brought to the hearing.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, if you say it was an omission, Reverend, could you explain how you could of omitted it or why it was omitted?  Was it omitted for any specific reason or was it just because you forgot to mention it.

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: It could have been omitted by the translator.

CHAIRPERSON: So what are you saying?  Are you saying that you did mention it or you can't remember whether you mentioned it?  What is the situation?  Or you were too embarrassed to mention it?  That's what I'm trying to get at.  You say it was an omission, I want to say 'Well, why was it an omission?'

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: Embarrassment was not part of giving this evidence.  What could have happened is that when I gave this evidence or the statement down to the people who were investigating before the actual hearing commenced, it could have been omitted after that or in the hearing but I mentioned it when the people who were taking statements wrote it down.

CHAIRPERSON: People from the TRC?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's right.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You see, what Mr Meyer is having a problem with is the fact that the transcript of your evidence before the Human Rights Violations Committee specifically mentions electrodes having been clipped on your earlobes and they do not refer to such electrodes having clipped on your private parts, now that is specifically omitted.  No evidence refers to such electrodes having been clipped on any other part of your body other than the earlobes.  That's the problem that he has and he wants you to explain why, if you say you stated that kind of evidence before the Human Rights Violations Committee, that is not contained in the transcript that is before us which only refers to such electrodes having been clipped on your earlobes only.

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That is what I'm saying.

CHAIRPERSON: I think just to put it more succinctly, if one can remember electrodes being attached to the earlobe, one would think that one would also remember it being attached to one's private parts.  Now you mention it being attached to your earlobe, how then could the omission have come about when you make no mention at all of it being attached to your private parts?  In fact, one would probably think the opposite, one would think that if you were to forget anything, you'd forget the earlobe before the private parts.

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's what I'm saying that it could have been an omission, the fact that I mentioned it to the investigators.  I might have took it for granted that that statement has been given to the Amnesty Hearing when they sat in October.  But I'm 100% sure that I gave it to the investigators.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Did you give a statement to the investigators or are you saying this was omitted probably when your evidence was being translated into English, when you were giving your evidence in Venda before the Human Rights Violations Committee?  I'm getting a little confused.  Was there a written statement that was submitted prior to this hearing taking place which was taken down by TRC investigators?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's right.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And that statement was signed by you.

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's right.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And handed over to the TRC and it was pursuant to that statement that you appeared before the Human Rights Violations Committee and gave evidence?

MRANGANENI PETROL PHOSHWANA: That's right.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Meyer?

MR MEYER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  So Reverend, your explanation for also not saying anything about this is also that it was an omission?