Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-11

MR HUGO: Well my flight is only at 8 o'clock tonight, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: You might have an opportunity to have a word with Mr van Schalkwyk.  Very well, the two of you discuss it and decide what you want or would you like to take a short break and discuss it now rather than make Mr Hugo sitting around waiting here until 4 o'clock?  I'm sure he has been in this hall for quite long enough.

MR HUGO: I'm very much obliged, thank you Mr Chairman.

ADV PRIOR: We're going to take a short adjournment, please rise.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

MR VAN SCHALKWYK: I'm indebted for the time granted, Mr Hugo has no objection to us consulting with his clients, it's just the logistics of the matter.  Clients are obviously in Pretoria and may I perhaps ask the Commission's indulgence, I do not say that we should interrupt at all, but we'll arrange with Mr Hugo when to consult with these people and I will liaise with Mr Prior as to whether or not we would want to call any of these witnesses at all, but we won't interrupt proceedings at all.  Thank you.

MR ROUSSOUW: Sorry Mr Chairman, may I with the leave of the Committee also be excused as I believe I will not be involved further in this hearing?  Mr Chairman, if there is a need for either myself of Mr Bosch to return, Mr Prior can contact me and we'll be available.  May I just also place on record, Mr Chairman, I believe that the evidence that Mr Visser is about to lead might also be useful when it comes to argument in the Bhila matter and it might be that I will also make use of that evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: I think we had agreed on that, hadn't we, that although they might be handled separately they are all really part of one proceedings and the evidence led in respect of any portion of them can be used in the others.

MR ROUSSOUW: Thank you Mr Chairman, may I then be excused?

MR NOLTE: Mr Chairman, if I may place on record, I am Wynand Nolte from the firm Strijdom Britz Attorneys, acting on behalf of Mr F.H.S. Labuschagne who might during the course of these hearings be implicated in the matter.  We're not certain yet.  The extent of his implication is uncertain and will only become clear after evidence has been led in cross-examination.  If I may also place on record the following, neither my client nor our firm has been notified of the possible implication.  We have discussed it with Mr Prior and he has indicated that -well that was last week - that if there was an implication he would let us know.  Because we are uncertain of the extent we would ask the Committee's indulgence, if necessary, to consult with Mr Labuschagne and just adjourn for a short while if there is such an implication?

CHAIRPERSON: Is he here?

MR NOLTE: Mr Chairman he is reachable, I have his cell phone number.

CHAIRPERSON: You wouldn't have to go far away to look for him?

MR NOLTE: No sir, thank you.

ADV PRIOR: Mr Chairman, I confirm what Mr Nolte has said, there was no formal notice given in terms of Section 19, but certainly informal notice which has occasioned his presence here and the implication will only arise depending on what some of the applicants will or will not say so it's certainly, his implication didn't appear ex facie the applications as they stand.  Thank you Mr Chairman.

MR VISSER: Well Mr Chairman, Visser on record, I may add that during the hearing which you attended last week and while we were preparing this case, Mr Chairman, the name of Mr Labuschagne was mentioned and I personally mentioned it to my learned friend Mr du Plessis and Mr Britz and that was how they were informed and I also told them that in the interest of full disclosure we're going to have to tell this Committee that they were involved but that we were not going to implicate him but of course that's not our decision, that's Mr Nolte's decision.  But that's how it came about Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: But anyway he's here now and we can get on with it.

MR VISSER: Yes, yes indeed.