Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Mr Mbambo, I want to now turn to the 28th page of the record and your paragraph 63 entitled "Further attacks on ANC members".  Now you indicate that these attacks occurred approximately three weeks after incidents that we've just discussed and you mentioned that a certain person arrived in a certain vehicle and you had a meeting.  Can you just give details on this?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: As we had been instructed to attack ANC members in large numbers, this required that we had a vehicle at our disposal and we did not really want to use the Mayor's car because it was well known in the area.  This complaint was taken to Ulundi to M.Z. Khumalo and Prince Gideon Zulu and Malandona - Mr Luthuli.  They then delivered a car from the Chief Minister's Department.  This car was delivered by Mr Cele who worked at Ulundi.  It was a combi, a Mitsubishu, white in colour.  We found Mr Cele at Mrs Umbiasi's house, it was the first time that I saw him.  Mrs Umbiasi introduced him to us and explained that the Chief Minister, Dr. Buthelezi had heard our grievance that we did not have transport therefore they'd issued this vehicle together with M.Z. Khumalo and Prince Gideon Zulu so that we can use it on attacks on ANC members.
	In the car were also two guns that Mr Cele had brought with him, it was one AK47 rifle and an Uzi submachine gun.  We went to the car, myself Dina Mkhize, Israel Hlungwane, Zwele Dlamini and Mr Cele as well as Victor Buthelezi.  We also had our own guns such as AK47 and G3 rifles.  
	We had heard that there was a meeting that was to be held at Umsingwenya a higher primary school in J1 on the very same night.  It was an ANC meeting.  We drove to that place to attack the people who were going to be at that meeting.  We parked outside the gate as we were sitting in the car, two people approached from behind the car, approaching the car.  Dina then told Israel and Victor Buthelezi to alight and shoot these two people because they're going to disturb us.  They did so.  When these two people saw them approaching, they tried to flee, then Israel and Victor started shooting but I'm not certain whether these people were indeed hit or not.
	They returned to the car but on their way a male person approached and this person was carrying books and he passed the car, he greeted us.  It appeared like this person was coming from the school as if the meeting was about to disperse.  After he had passed the car, just as he was about to meet Israel and Victor Buthelezi, Dina shouted through the window and said "baas".  As they met him, Israel and Victor shot at this person, I think they shot him twice and then they ran into the car.  
	As they arrived, the car was just about to drive off, the engine was running.  As we passed the school gate, it seemed that the people in the meeting had heard gunshots and they realised that it was coming from this car, our car.  Some of them took cover behind the walls and they shot and we returned fire on our way.
	We then went to B.B. Biela's house.  We took the Main Road between eSikhawini College and Umtokozwini bus stop.  We turned near the Umkabosa Bottle Store and we found a crowd of people waiting at the bus stop there.  We shot at those people and these people dispersed and we continued driving until we got to the Mayor's house.  We stayed for a short while at his house, thereafter we had to drive and take Mr Cele to his home.  We're took him to his house Langobo an area headed by Inkose Msemela.  We left him there and we returned with the guns that he had brought in the car.  The reason for this was that we were supposed to continue attacking that entire weekend until Monday morning so that Mr Cele will take the car and return it to the Chief Minister.  
	The following evening...[intervention]

MR WILLS: Sorry Mr Mbambo, can you just bear with me.  Mr Chairperson I wonder if the Committee will just bear with me I just want to ask my learned friend a question very briefly?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes certainly Mr Wills.

MR WILLS: Thank you Mr Chairperson.
	Mr Mbambo, during Mr Mkhize's cross-examination by Mr Ngubane, Mr Ngubane called a certain Mr Jobi who I believe is still in the public gallery today, do you recall that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes I do.

MR WILLS: Do you recognise Mr Jobi at all?  You don't have to point him out now, I'm saying from your recollection on Thursday.

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.

MR WILLS: Can you explain?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Mr Jobi is the person we saw coming out of Masingwene H.P. School who passed our car and greeted us.  As he was a bit far from the car, Dina issued the command "baas" and Israel and Victor Buthelezi shot at him.

MR WILLS: But up until last week, you didn't know the identity of this person, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Alright if you can continue with the evidence that you started relating at paragraph 69 on page 31 of the record?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: When we had returned I kept the car for the night and on the following day or rather the evening we met as a group but Mr Cele was no longer present.
	We went to attack at a certain bus stop known as the Kwandana bus stop.  I think it's the only bus stop that we attacked on that night because on the other areas that we used to go to we discovered that there was nobody around there.
	On the following night, that is the Sunday night, we went around checking around ANC stronghold areas and we discovered that there were no crowds around there and we didn't do anything.  
	On Monday morning, I went to B.B. Biela's house and I picked Israel Hlungwane up.  We went to Langoba to Mr Cele's house and we delivered the car and the two guns that he had brought.  He then drove us back to eSikhawini.  I think Israel remained at the IFP office and I dropped off at the eSikhawini police station.  Mr Cele then returned to Ulundi.

MR WILLS: And is it also not correct that you attended at the police station during the course of that weekend and that is the eSikhawini police station and that you did establish that in fact that some people were killed and a number of people were injured as a result of your activities that evening?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Now you used an interesting word during the course of your evidence, you said and I quote, the translation in any event that: "you were supposed to attack for the whole weekend" what do you mean by that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I mean that we were supposed to attack all ANC strongholds using that vehicle until such time that the car was supposed to be returned to Ulundi because the reason that it had been brought to us was to attack the ANC in their large numbers in their own areas.  As I have explained before that we had complained that we did not have a vehicle to use on our activities.  If this car was to remain with us for an entire week, we would have attacked for that entire week until it returned back to Ulundi.

MR WILLS: Now here again you've mentioned that on the Monday morning you first drove to B.B. Biela's house.  Were the persons that you've mentioned, that's Bielas and Mrs Umbiasi aware of what you were doing with this vehicle?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes they were because they had taken our complaint to Ulundi and the car had been delivered to them so they were very aware, clearly aware of what we were doing.

MR WILLS: You can't think of any other reason possibly that the car was given to you?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: There is no other reason except to attack the ANC.

MR WILLS: I want to turn now to page 32 of the record, your paragraph 71 concerning this incident which I'm not going to dwell on, I'm just going to take you through it in the main because Mr Mkhize has given evidence in a fair amount of detail about this.  This is the strategy to influence Umtinzini Magistrate's Court to release the IFP hit squad members on bail, do you recall that?