Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-13

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true. Were your brothers at home at that time?   ---   When the police arrived we didn't see them, so my brothers saw the police arriving so they got out of our home in another car.  When they see the police car coming in they came back.  When they arrived the police pointed guns at them, telling them to lie down on the floor.

KHOZA MGOJO: And they lay down on the floor?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did that.

KHOZA MGOJO: After you were dressed what happened?

WITNESS:   They took us to C R Square.

KHOZA MGOJO: Were you together with your brothers?

WITNESS:   Yes, together with my brothers.  While we were on the way they were calling each other, calling the C R Swart, telling them they mustn't close the room where they're going to lock us in, telling that they are bringing us in.

KHOZA MGOJO: At the time when they took you away did they explain exactly the reason why they were taking you away, because at the time you were the one who was grieving because you lost your husband?

WITNESS:   They didn't explain.  They just said ... (inaudible)

KHOZA MGOJO: What does that mean?

WITNESS:   I don't know what that means.

KHOZA MGOJO: When you arrived at C R Swart what happened?

WITNESS:  One of my brother's friends came in and they started beating him, asking him the whereabouts of Mbuso.  We couldn't hear exactly what they were asking him, and we were not allowed to talk where we were sitting.  Then my chance came to come out and talk, because they were tired of listening to my brothers because they were telling them the same story.  They talked to me and they got tired, they slept, and when they wake up they said, "We have to

KHOZA MGOJO: /"go."  They

KHOZA MGOJO: go."  They were talking to each other, thinking that we don't hear them, and saying, "These people don't know anything."

KHOZA MGOJO: Didn't they harass you?

WITNESS:   They just told me that - they didn't harass me, they just told me that I will give birth in prison.

KHOZA MGOJO: At KwaMashu did you visit ... (intervention)

WITNESS:  I didn't hear you.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did they ever visit the KwaMashu place to break into some house?

WITNESS:   Yes, they did.  They started at Gamalakhe.

KHOZA MGOJO: What did they do at Gamalakhe?

WITNESS:   When we were coming back from C R Square they came.  They normally used to come to our place at night.  They found my younger brother and they asked where was Mbuso's room.  He showed them the room and they asked for the key to open the door.  He said the key is not there.  They break the door open and came in.  They turned the house upside-down and they left at about four in the morning.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there anything that they took from Gamalakhe?  Did they take anything from the room?

WITNESS:   They didn't take anything from Gamalakhe, but they took some items at M Section in KwaMashu.  They took some kitchenware at that time.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you ever reported the matter to police?

WITNESS:   I went to Hibberdene to report the matter.  The police told me that I must go and search for my husband at a casino.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was he used to casinos?

WITNESS:   No.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement, Mrs Shabalala, you said you went to Port Shepstone Police Station to ask for help.  Do you still remember that?  You said you met Luthuli Mthunjane.  Do you still remember that?

WITNESS:   Yes, I still remember.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who is Luthuli Mthunjane?

WITNESS:   This is the Luthuli who came to me and identified himself as Luthuli.

KHOZA MGOJO: Why did they refer you to Luthuli Mthunjane?  In your own opinion why do you think they referred you to him?

WITNESS:   The one person who I talked to said I can get some help from Luthuli.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did this Luthuli help you?

WITNESS:   When I asked Luthuli he said he doesn't know the whereabouts of Mbuso.  I just went to him just to find out what he can say.  He said I must wait, he's going to talk to the captain.  He talked to the captain, and they were laughing together with the captain.  When he came back to me he said I must go to C R Swart to ask for a letter which gives me permission to go to the prison to see Mbuso.  I didn't go to the C R Square because I was afraid that I could be arrested.

KHOZA MGOJO: You mentioned the name of Mr Mkloli.

WITNESS:   I met him in 1994.  It was a mistake, it was in 1992.  I met him in 1994.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who is this Mkloli?

WITNESS:   He was working for the Goldstone Commission.

KHOZA MGOJO: Tell us the time when you arrived at him you were together with Mbuso's friend, Sandile Bulani?

WITNESS:   Sandile Bulani was my husband's friend.  He was trying to help me to connect me to people who can give me some help.  He was trying to trace the whereabouts of my husband.  During December 1994 he came back to tell me that Mbuso has been killed by police, and that his car has been cut into pieces at Camperdown. Who was saying this?   It was Sandile?   ---   No, this was the Goldstone people.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did they mention exactly where the police were from?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't.

KHOZA MGOJO: In your statement you said Mkloli did investigate the police.  Did they say they really killed your husband?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you remember who sent the police to kill your husband?

WITNESS:   What I have just discovered from my lawyer as to what had happened, it was that an answer from Pretoria was that de Kock has not been charged in connection with the death of my husband.

KHOZA MGOJO: That he has not been charged.  Does it mean that the police will stand by de Kock?

WITNESS:   I think so.

KHOZA MGOJO: You also mention Charles Indaba.  Can you tell us more about him?

WITNESS:   Charles Indaba was Mbuso's friend.  He disappeared on Friday and Mbuso disappeared on Sunday.

KHOZA MGOJO: You mention an amount that had been paid, an amount of R10 000,00.  Who paid this money?

WITNESS:   This money was paid to the person who caught my husband.

KHOZA MGOJO: Was he bought with this money?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Who was this person?

WITNESS:   No, they didn't tell me the name of the person.

KHOZA MGOJO: You said you contacted some lawyers.  Are they still around, those lawyers?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Do you know their names?

WITNESS:   The one I am using at the moment is Ndulwane.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is it Nhlanhla?

WITNESS:   Yes.

KHOZA MGOJO: Did you get a death certificate?

WITNESS:   No, I didn't.  They didn't give me a death certificate.

KHOZA MGOJO: Which means even at the moment I don't know where is your husband?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

KHOZA MGOJO: You don't even know his grave?

WITNESS:   Yes, I don't know his grave, and I would like to know where it is.

KHOZA MGOJO: You have done a good thing by coming before the Commission to come and explain to us about the disappearance of your husband.  Can you summarise exactly what you expect from the Commission so that we can be able to write down your requests and send them over to the President?  Is there anything that you would like to ask from the Commission to take over to the President?

WITNESS:  I would like them to give the death certificate, because they know, those who killed him.  And I would also like them to show me his grave.

KHOZA MGOJO: Is there anything else you would like to ask?

WITNESS:  And also that they help me with my children, because I want them to grow up like other children.

KHOZA MGOJO: Wouldn't you like the Truth Commission to investigate as to who did this act?

WITNESS:   I would like them to do that.