Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1998-04-01

MS COLLETT: What was the reason that you were going to attack the highgate hotel?  Why was it a target?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: The reason for the target was because it was full of white people at the Highgate hotel.

MS COLLETT: Was the intention to injure or kill the people at that Highgate hotel?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: The intention was to kill them.

MS COLLETT: Had there already been an attack on the Highgate hotel or don't you know?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: There was once an attack, I do not know who carried that out.

MS COLLETT: Was this before or after your attack?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: That attack happened before we too got to go and attack there, that was before.

MS COLLETT: Now, the rifle grenade that you fired, did it hit the wall of the hotel?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: That rifle grenade, because it was amongst other rifle grenades, the one we used a defective one.  That we only heard after we had returned back, that a mistake was made that we were given that rifle grenade because it hit the ground, it did not even explode after it hit the wall.

MS COLLETT: Why did you not attack the station bar in East London on that evening?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: Because we later discovered that the Highgate hotel is packed and full and according to our plans it was better that way.

MS COLLETT: There would be a possibility that you would kill more people at the Highgate hotel rather than at the station bar, is that what you're saying?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: That is so, and because there were many people there, I can only estimate about 100.

MS COLLETT: Now, after you had fired this rifle grenade, what did you do?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: We left for Mdantsane.  When we got there at Mdantsane NU6, we left that car there, the one we were using.  We just wiped off the fingerprints and left it, we left to go and sleep at Tjabane's house, African Tjabane.
	We slept and the following day, Saturday, the late TNT and the late African Kid left to make a phonecall in order to give a report back of what happened.  I and the driver and Tjabane stayed at the house.  After they returned, if I remember well, I think we left for another house at Mdantsane NU6 that same Saturday.  
	At that house that African that was staying there was a friend to TNT, he was an African too.  We spent the whole of the Saturday there.  That evening we went back to our original house.  We slept that night, Saturday, we awoke on Sunday.  We stayed the whole day there planning another attack.

MS COLLETT: Which attack were you planning now?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: Because we were supposed to have hit the bars of Da Gama on Friday and things did not go according to plan we were then planning to re-undertake that plan on that same Da Gama bus and then go and hit that kombi carrying kids to school.
	Late on Sunday we left to go and find a car around Mdantsane.  As we were still at NU6 we saw a Honda Ballade, I think it had three people if I remember well, a man and two females.  We passed there and as we got to a kind of a small hill we stood, the unit commander instructed the late Luvuyo and the late - sorry, and Tjabane, that they must go and take that car and we would keep watch as we were not far off from where the car stood and we would see everything as it was going on.  They went.
	They got there and pointed firearms at those people and forced the people out of that car.  After those people had left the car the late Luvuyo got into the car and drove the car towards us.  Africa Tjabane was left behind guarding those people.  When the car got to us he was called loud to come to us.  He came and we too got into the car and we left.

MS COLLETT: Did you know these people who you took the car from?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: No, I did not know them.

MS COLLETT: Were they white people or black people?

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: It was black people.

MS COLLETT: Continue.

DUMISANI NCAMAZANA: When we left there our intentions we to carry that attack the following day.  We were going to take the car, to keep it at a place to enable us so that the following day we could get it so as to enable us to carry on with the following attack.  We took the car and parked it near the Xuwusana College of Education as the place we were staying as was quite near.
	We parked that car there and left to go and sleep.  We awoke the following morning.  After we had awoke we prepared ourselves, ate and did everything and prepared our arms.  We went to that car now in order to go to Da Gama.

MS COLLETT: Just pause here.
	Mr Chairman, I'd like to point out that between 58 and page 59 a page was omitted from the affidavit which would be now inserted as 58(a).  Another thing that I wish to draw the Committee's attention to is, at paragraph 11.12 it's factually incorrect as a matter of fact.  The second line says:
"I said that we should use a rifle grenade"
okay?
"and Kid said we should use our firearms"
it's the other way around.  Kid said that the rifle grenade should be used and this witness insisted that the firearms be used.  I apologise for any inconvenience there, it just to have been a bit a mixup.  So it should read:
"Kid said that we should a rifle grenade but I insisted that we should use our firearms as the bus was too close"

CHAIRPERSON: Should the "to" be with "oo"?

MS COLLETT: I don't see the "to".

MR LAX: Ja, it's the, in the last sentence the second word is "to".

MS COLLETT: Yes, it should be "oo".

CHAIRPERSON: Right, we'll make those changes.

MS COLLETT: As it pleases you.  May I proceed with the witness Mr Chairman?
	Alright, if you would continue your evidence regarding this Da Gama attack.