Amnesty Hearings — Bloemfontein — 1988-01-19

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: My eyes were closed because of the swelling, I could not see.  Du Plessis even took a photo of me and he was showing it to the others and saying: "Look at this baboon".  He called me a baboon because he hit me until my eyes were swollen.

MR STANDER: After you were at Fuchsware, what happened then?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: Because I was still refusing to agree with what he was saying, they continually assaulted me.

MR STANDER: That evening, where were you taken then?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I was taken back to Park Road in the cells.

MR STANDER: Did you receive any medical attention?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: Not at all My Lord, they said terrorists cannot be seen by a doctor.

MR STANDER: So were you taken back to Fountain Street?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: Yes, I was now even taken to Fountain to be interrogated.  One thing that surprised me a lot was when I found my passport in du Plooy's office and I had to agree as they accused me of the stamps in my passport. [English translation inaudible]  They had cassettes in their possession and they thought within those cassettes they would ANC cassettes but they would not.

MR STANDER: How long did this torturing continue?  How many days?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I will not be in a position to remember because I even got mentally disturbed. I was already taken to a mental hospital.

MR STANDER: Tell me, except for the first day, were Motsamai and Ngo in any way involved in your torture?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I last saw them in the kitchen Sir.

MR STANDER: Just to conclude with the evidence, later on you were charged, am I correct?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: That's correct, together with Oupa Makubalo. We were charged with terrorism.

MR STANDER: And it was during this period [English
translation inaudible]

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: George Muzi died when I was in the hands of the police.  I remember it was on the ...[indistinct] and the police came to me and insisted that I killed George Muzi.  And they kicked me whilst I was in those cells.

MR STANDER: While you were kicked here, George Muzi died, is that what you're telling the Commission?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: That's correct.

MR STANDER: What happened with the criminal charge that was made against you?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: There was no evidence in court but the people and the police had evidence but it was not used in court.

MR STANDER: Do you know whether you were found guilty or not guilty?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I was not found guilty, I was not even charged.

MR STANDER: Tell me, did you sustain any injuries that you have kept due to the assault [English translation inaudible]

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: Yes, I have this thing behind my head, it is swollen.  That is where Swanepoel hit me the butt of the gun and my teeth are loose.

MR STANDER: Thank you Mr Chair, this is the evidence in chief of this witness.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STANDER

MR VISSER: May I go first Mr Chairman, Visser on record.  In view of the fact that none of my client's are implicated Mr Chairman, I have no questions of this witness.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

MR DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no questions either.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS

MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, perhaps if I may - Visser on record again, my attorney has just drawn my attention to one fact and perhaps I should just make one statement to the witness that is referring to page one of the set of affidavits.  If I may Mr Chairman, just place one aspect on record.
	Mr Oliphant, do you know for whom I appear in this case or don't you know?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I do not know Sir.

MR VISSER: You don't know.  Well, Mr Chairman, I don't want to make a long speech out of this but if I could put it on this basis to the witness?
	For as far as you have mentioned anywhere else in any other evidence you'd given, any other names than the ones that you've given here today, I suggest to you that insofar as I appear for any of those persons, if necessary they would deny any wrongdoing on their part.  
	Mr Chairman, you must stop me please if it's not good enough ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I don't  understand it at all I'm afraid Mr Visser.

MR VISSER: Well, then I'll have to go through it the long way unfortunately, and you're quite right, it doesn't' make sense the way I put it.
	Mr Oliphant, can I tell you for whom I appear?  I appear for Mr Coetzee - and please stop me if there's anybody that I mention that you don't know whom I'm talking about please interrupt me, Mr Erasmus, Mr Shaw, Mr Litseou, Mr Mamome, Mr Unkanjani, Mr Maningwa, Mr Norakile - M'Lord, I'm not spelling these because they are on record at the moment ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: On the list.

MR VISSER: On the list.  Perhaps I should draw the attention of the interpreter to the fact that I'm now referring to bundle B of the record and the contents, the index on top of that bundle.
	Morakile, Ntjiala, Ramouseau, Sesedinyane, Tswametsi, now those are 13 names.  Then there are a further nine names and I believe Mr Chairman, that they appear in another record.  
	I was hoping to find them - oh yes, it is the portion of the record Mr Chairman - I see my page is not numbered, I don't know whether you can see this far but it was at the last hearing, we got a list - I think in all probability this was the list that was also present at the time when the pre-trial conference was held 
Mr Chairman.  It may be attached to your pre-trial conference at the time, I'm not quite certain.  I'm just trying to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: I have a list of 22 names.

MR VISSER: That's the one Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: [inaudible]

MR VISSER: That's the one I'm looking for Mr Chairman, yes, that's the one I'm looking for.

CHAIRPERSON: [inaudible]

MR VISSER: Yes, I was hoping that I could give that to the interpreters to ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: [inaudible]

MR VISSER: Thank you, thank you.  Then I'm continuing with the names.  Number 14 is Mr Jantjie, Constable Jantjie, Tulo, Sefatsa, Bester, Mokalake, Tsomela, van den Berg, Malezi and Kopie.  Are there any names that I've mentioned to you that you recognise?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I know Kopie.

MR VISSER: I didn't want to ask this questions but now I'm compelled to ask it.  Did Kopie have anything to do - as far as you're concerned, with yourself?  Anything at all to do with you relating to why you're here today?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: I know him as a policeman at Fountain.

MR VISSER: Yes, is that all?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: Yes, that's all.

MR VISSER: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

ADV MEMANI: No questions M'Lord.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR MEMANI

MR BRINK: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BRINK

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, one question to clarify the record.  The witness referred to his grandfather throughout and you referred to his uncle, which was it? - George Muzi.

MR STANDER: I could possibly just find out from the witness, I might have made a mistake Mr Chair.
	Mr Oliphant, how is George Muzi related to you?

SHADRACK TEKU OLIPHANT: George Muzi was a cousin to my father, he was the elder brother to my father and I refer to him as my grandfather.

MR STANDER: I don't know whether that is clearer.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, it indicates how the different came about.

MR STANDER: As you please.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED

MR STANDER: Mr Chair, I will continue to call the next witness for today and that is Mr Matthews Mzuzwana.

ADV DE JAGER: Could you possibly spell the name so long please?

MR VISSER: Mr Chair, it was already done on this list of affidavits that was placed before you but I will do it gladly.

ADV DE JAGER: The interpreters now have to look for the name so can you just indicate where it is on the list.