Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-02

MR SHABANGU: The case was reported at the police station at Kanyamazane that our house was burnt.  It was just that and it ended there.  The case was opened but nothing happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: So you never received any kind of compensation for the burning of your house.
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MR SHABANGU: Yes, I did not receive anything.

YASMINE SOOKA: Thank you.

MRS MKHIZE: Mr Shabangu I will ask you some questions, I will go back a little bit in order to get more clarity to what you have been saying.  You said to us during 1983 to 1986 you started about the struggle. Can you tell us briefly what were your objectives, what were you busy doing when you were struggling or you were waging a struggle.

MR SHABANGU: During that time there is nothing that you could do which was accepted as being right.  Then we said if we could form an organisation that if we could form an organisation known as Lowveld Youth Movement I could say it was just - how can I put it, it was just an organisation for social events like playing games and to perform plays in order to gather the youth that they should not just go to other places.  It was just to bring them together in order to perform certain plays with an aim actually to promote the objective of the movement.  Trying to teach people politics so that they must be politically aware to know exactly what was taking place then.

MRS MKHIZE: You are saying in your organisation you thought that it would be wise to have sport and teach people and conscientise people about politics.  Now during that time didn't you think perhaps that you will have some conflict with the police as you were teaching the young people?

MR SHABANGU: Yes.  When you start something of this nature  you know very well that you tease the police.  We did realise the fact that actually this thing will somehow end at the police but we have already started, we could not reverse it.

MRS MKHIZE: The other thing which you said, you said the
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police said that you are the people actually who were sort of making people to burn houses.  Now can you tell us exactly burning of houses and the killing of people, how does these two things go together.

MR SHABANGU: We built a park.  This park that is where the young people actually was using it as sort of a gathering place.  This park actually was not meant, it was actually meant that these people should use the park but not for meetings.  Now the young people actually thought this is a correct spot where they can sort of meet.  Burning of houses and cars had nothing to do with us, it was done by other people who were just not part of our organisation.

MRS MKHIZE: Just explain to us about your organisation and that park.  Because you realise that you could also make use of the very same venue to have your meetings there.  Did you take any decisions which could sort of give direction to the young people in order to go around and do whatever what you have decided on?

MR SHABANGU: No, the youth were just meeting on their own.  We were not mixing with them.  We were not mixing with them.

MRS MKHIZE: There is another thing that you said to us, which we would like to get clarity on about your statement and you have already indicated that on your statement, that you were tortured.  You said they blindfolded you and they beat you and they tied your hands at the back.   Can you tell us some of the other things that actually happened to you besides those which you have mentioned, if you can still remember.  And you said to us that they were giving you one meal a day.  Can you tell us perhaps anything that you can still remember that took place then which could sort of attach to what you have said that you were tortured.
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MR SHABANGU: I can say that is one time where we were beaten all of us in a cell and actually it was done by many police.  They beat us, besides that I was being beaten alone.  We were beaten together with our friends in a cell.  The other thing, some police, those who were working at night were actually whites.  When we were asleep they were bringing their children and saying here are the terrorists.  At the police station where I was there is a place where you could walk and you could see through a glass and they could see through that glass.  They were bringing their kids to parade there and show them that here are the terrorists.  That is all I can say.

MRS MKHIZE: Maybe Mr Shabangu, you know this is our first sitting here.  The reason why we are asking a lot of questions we want to go out from here having a full explanation.  You need to explain and you must explain to us that you were beaten together with your friends.  If you can tell us you can tell us how many were you, who came in, who actually tortured you.  Can you tell us briefly on that?

MR SHABANGU: We were five in our cell.  Walters came in and some other policemen from the security branch but some were just police.  They came in, they beat us, they beat all five of us and each one had to select his own partner and he was just beating him.  We were having done nothing in fact.  And they said to us we are not co-operating.  The other thing they said to us we will not come alive.  It is either that we die or we escape the country.  Those were actually threatening words to us.   If you say that you don't co-operate do you know perhaps there were certain things we should - they were demanding from you which you could not give them and yes they asked me where did I train and they
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asked my MK number.  I did not know about those things.  They asked me when did I escape the country and then I said to them I never escaped the country.  In other words they were just seeking that type of information thinking that maybe I once escaped the country and yet I said to them no, I didn't.

MRS MKHIZE: I thank you.

COMMISSIONER: We want to thank you Mr Shabangu.  As I have said already to those who started earlier on, to those who had already witnessed it is very much difficult actually to have what you can say if a person who has just actually been experienced these difficulties to be tortured in the way they did to you.  But as I have said that most of our youth they were actually the people who had more input that we should today be proud of what we are.   We are now ruling ourselves.  It is because the young people, they were actually heros.  They came out boldly and they fought against all the horrible things that we experienced before.  We are listening now as a nation here.  We listened to your story and other stories too. We want to thank you.  We want to thank you although you were actually confronted with these problems, we want to thank you.