Special Hearings — Political Party Recalls — UNKNOWN

MR GOOSEN: On the 7th of May 1985 three prominent members of a Black civic organisation were abducted from the airport in Port Elizabeth by members of the South African Police. The security police and Vlakplaas members were operating under instructions of the head of the security police in the Eastern Cape and subsequent commander of C Section at security police headquarters. The victims were transported to a disused police facility near Cradock, there they were held, interrogated, tortured and finally eliminated. Their bodies were burnt and the remains dumped into the

<UNKNOWN>: ish River. 
Despite three court applications and numerous efforts made by the families of the men no explanation for the disappearance could be obtained from the police. Do you regard these actions as unauthorised actions of a handful of operatives?

MR DE KLERK: Once again depending who issued the orders it would definitely be unauthorised and mala fide. Can I just say on Vlakplaas and use the instance that you are putting forward in your question to underline a statement which is part of my replies with regard to knowledge or no knowledge. On the issue of Vlakplaas and de Kock's activities I have asked four generals who were at various stages with regard to Vlakplaas and who were, because of their duties and the posts that they held, in the best possible position, if you look at the top decision-makers, to know what has happened there. All four of them have assured me that they didn't know. To the best of my knowledge none of the four of them have applied for amnesty, which means that if other people knew that they knew, trustworthy witnesses, not just people saying that, surely they would have applied for amnesty, because the truth will come out? But they didn't. I believe them. 
So the way in which Vlakplaas was managed with regard to the atrocities which originated there I am convinced have been a way which at some point it started and with regard to all those in superior positions above the person or persons who initiated those things, were kept in the dark and they were not being told what was actually happening. They were getting maybe false reports. One of the Generals said, the reports that they got with regard to the activities of Vlakplaas could meet the eye of the auditor general, was everything in order, gave no indication whatsoever of these atrocities. That is what I mean with mala fide, somewhere there is mala fide, and it is started by somebody with an own agenda and with its own goals, whatever the motivation might be.

MR GOOSEN: I have mentioned the instance of the Cradock

<UNKNOWN>: our, the Goniwe killings and the Pepco Three, the one we are just dealing with now. You may be interested to know that the amnesty applications received in regard to those two matters are from applicants who also, not in every instance, but certainly they cover applications also for the murder and disappearance Sizwe Kondile, in 1981. They also involve applications for assaults perpetrated on Steve Biko in detention in 1977. They involve the disappearance of Sipiwe Mtimkulu and Topsy Madaka. Violations which span a period from 1977 through - and also the Motherwell bomb blast which occurred in 1989, they span violations, involve a similar group of people with a similar chain of command from 1977 through to 1989 in the Eastern Cape. In your view, Sir, how was it possible that these operatives could behave with such impunity? What made it possible for such aberrations to occur?

MR DE KLERK: I think a number of factors surely played a role.

<UNKNOWN>: irstly, as I pointed out in my original submission, they had to fight, they had to fight an onslaught where there were no rules. They had to fight a revolutionary onslaught which had as its end goal to make South Africa look like Zaire is looking today. And that created a situation where you were not facing a typical military enemy across the barrel of a rifle, but you, the security forces had to protect the lives and property of all South Africans to uphold the authority of the State against an onslaught which was underground, which used terrorist methods, which threatened the very stability of the country. And the result was more authority to the security people to fight a war, a very specific type of war, and across the world where this type of war has occurred there has been these aberrations. There has been from all sides in such conflicts deviation from what might be described as the Queensbury Rules even for that type of warfare. In this process, the categories that I have referred to, and that you have been using as a basis of your line of questioning are relevant, are relevant. 
I have also said that by the declaration of a state of emergency where normal rules are suspended, where you have detention without trial and the like, once again it creates circumstances and opportunity for aberrations like this. It cannot be justified. Murder and assassination cannot be justified and anybody who within this framework went as far as that did something which was totally unacceptable. That is where we stand.

MR GOOSEN: Stanza Bopape was detained by members of the security police on the night of the 9th or 10th of June 1988. He disappeared whilst in the custody of the police. His family were informed that he had been exempted from the provisions of Section 29 of the Internal Security Act, i.e. that he had been released from custody.

<UNKNOWN>: ormer Commissioner of Police, General van der Merwe subsequently informed the family that Stanza Bopape had escaped from custody. This was also stated by Minister Vlok in response to questions tabled in Parliament regarding the disappearance of Bopape. It was also claimed that he had been seen by certain witnesses and that investigations were being vigorously pursued. 
A co-detainee informed the family that he had been informed by his interrogators and torturers that Stanza Bopape had been shot whilst attempting to escape. 
In consequence of various investigations conducted by the TRC and those conducted by the prosecuting authorities ten amnesty applications have been lodged with the TRC.

<UNKNOWN>: rom these applications it appears that certain operatives seek amnesty for the torture and murder of Stanza Bopape. Three generals, including the former Commissioner of Police seek amnesty for authorising the covering-up of the murder of Stanza Bopape. 
This incident brings to light the involvement of very senior members of the police in commission of torture, murder and a deliberate interference with or obstruction of an investigation into a matter.
Would you say that these are merely a handful of operatives?