Human Rights Violation Hearings — East London — 1996-04-17

MR NTSEBEZA: Was it a message that they are going to kill him? Did he get out everything that he wanted to tell you?

MRS ZOKWE: Well we departed with him and I said to him, wait for me in the house because I want to deliver the groceries and then come back.  That's why I was looking for
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a girl who could help us.  There was a Chicken Lickin outlet that I first went to, there was also a daughter who was a manager at Chicken Lickin, they stopped me and I asked them what's happening now?  They said," Sithembile and Tamsanga, have been picked up by the police"
I said," What time?" Sithembile and Tamsanga  were together, they were together at school, together in everything, trying to protect human rights, they were in and out of cells together.  He was preparing himself because he thought the following day he would be employed and he would settle down. They went into the hair saloon, that is where Noncolo told us everything that had happened.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who is Noncolo, is he the person who was picked up by the police as well?

MRS ZOKWE: Yes, they pushed them ...(end of tape 12)
(start of tape 13)...Sithembile sat down and the police said to him, "Stand up, we're in a hurry".

MR NTSEBEZA: Is that so.

MRS ZOKWE: Yes we remember that.

MR NTSEBEZA: He said while he was busy trying to stand up one of the policemen pointed a gun at him?

MRS ZOKWE: Yes, that's so. Noncolo ran out of this whole situation, and doesn't know exactly happened thereafter but Noncolo saw them when they left together with Schoolboy.

MR NTSEBEZA: Would you tell us what happened when you got back home?

MRS ZOKWE: My problem was that we were supposed together with my daughter in law, to go and negotiate for the admission of her daughter at school. When I went away from Buttterworth and I learned that they have been taken by the police, I felt that I should take a U-turn and go to the
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police instead of going to where I was supposed to. When we went there, this lady was not there, and then again I was concerned that she would be unable to go for employment.  When I waited there next to Tsomo, I waited there for a long time. but I couldn't find, yet I was driving my car, I was alone.  When I came back, I saw a silhouette next to my house when I got to the gate.  I saw also that there were cars next to my place.  When I got nearer there were two cars. In my yard just next to the gate there was Mr Tjani who was the leader of the apartheid regime.  He was here on my premises. Yes he is a policeman, he is head of the security branch.  He said, "Here is this communist mother".  I said, "Tjani, I am the government here on these premises, I am the leader and he said,"I am going to kill you." And I said, "The only pain that I know is that when I give it back, and I jumped back over the wall and then I was arrested by these people.
 But the people were the members of the community. We struggled again, I again jumped because I wanted to go in front of them.  Mr Damoi was the one who was here at my place.

MR NTSEBEZA: No you were going to tell me what happened thereafter.

MRS ZOKWE: No I jumped, and when I jumped, the community members grabbed me again because I was heading forward towards the gun.  When I looked around I saw Gobeni and all this happened during the night and it was very dark and we couldn't see exactly what was happening.  My place was dark also.

MR NTSEBEZA: What happened, because your house is electrified?
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MRS ZOKWE: So I had a generator and the police were controlling the child and saying this generator should not be put on.  The child who was operating the generator was grabbed by the police and they said he mustn't.

MR NTSEBEZA: Didn't you hear anything about what had happened?

MRS ZOKWE: No I hadn't heard anything about my son at the time.  The third time when I was jumping the wall, I saw somebody, it was a van, we called them Vungu at the time but it was a police van.  I asked the child inside what the problem was, why did you hide the information that my child is late.  No the policeman came and the child was handcuffed at the back.  When they went back, I saw them next to the kitchen, and it was not a few minutes before I heard the sound of a revolver.  I said, "I am hurt, because I knew that I had to close my son's eyes because I couldn't do it".

MEMBER OF PANEL: Mr Damoi cried bitterly, because he gave an account of what happened.  He says he tried to ask this policeman what they're doing and the people shoved him back and they went away with my son, just next to the kitchen where they killed my son.
 Tjani was again there, he said again, "I am going to get rid of you by killing you!"  Then I said, "You must do it quick!" Mr Mfaso was also the head of the security and he was the best henchman at the time.  He was a trusted henchman who was transferred from Cambridge as he was known as he was the best to kill.  He was directed to Sithembile and then I wanted to take this bag which he was carrying and throw it away, but when he came, the van reversed in my yard, it trashed my gate and also the wall of my house and then it went over the wall and it also went over the lawn 
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and destroyed my flowers there.  We stayed there and we could hear them moving and there were sounds, terrible sounds around the house.

MR NTSEBEZA: Were you still hopeful that your child was still available.

MRS ZOKWE: Yes, I was hopeful that he was still alive, that he was just being arrested but I had this feeling that something terrible was happening to my son.  And the other thing that I could remember was that he said, "Mother, please bear, you must endure whatever is going to take place". Zoli Lesangoni was the other one who came here, who said, "You must not come.  Mr Madikizela said I must get away and break ties with Sithembile because he is dangerous".

MR NTSEBEZA: Madikizela, was he a policeman?

MRS ZOKWE: Yes he was a security police officer.

MR NTSEBEZA: Who was Zoli Lesangoni?

MRS ZOKWE: It was Sithembile's friend and he was also killed at the time.

MR NTSEBEZA: You know, we want to hear this very well, who was Zoli Lesangoni?  Did he come to your place and say, the police said, especially Madikizela, they said, he must break ties with his friend because they know that Sithembile Zokwe is going to die very soon and they said also, his days are numbered.

MRS ZOKWE: Yes it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: I can understand and listen very well that Zoli Lesangoni was also killed after they said, his days were numbered.

MRS ZOKWE: Yes it is so.

MR NTSEBEZA: At this moment they came in and this van came EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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into your yard. Did you get into your house?

MRS ZOKWE: Instead of coming in, Tjani was here with his squad, as head of this brutality, I saw that this is beyond my powers.  I said to him, "Between you and me, you know very well that the truth will come out one day, you know very well that it will happen".  He said, "Your son is injured, you must go to the police", and he went and boarded the car and I followed them in mine.

MR NTSEBEZA: Do you know what time it was?