Human Rights Violation Hearings — Heiderveld — 1996-04-25

MADODOMZI KAMA: Wat is klaar, and then the second time I asked I could sense that if I don't move out I'm in trouble.  The man insisted dit is klaar and he said [indistinct]  to move out.  Then from there we tried various means to get a death certificate, we couldn't.
After the statement was taken now by the TRC I went to Home Affairs, at Home Affairs I was told that Mzimkhulu according to their records is still alive, this is now last week.  The computer knows him that he is alive.  I requested what should I do then, because I buried the man and I know the man is late.  I was sent back to the undertaker, the undertaker opened up his books and he gave me a number to take to the police station.
At the police station I went the same day to the police station, last week.  I got hold of somebody who told me is almost four o'clock sorry we are alive,  we can't look for dead people.  Then I was told to come the following day,  this is what happened last week now.  The following day I came there around about nine o'clock if not ten o'clock.   I forgot this lady's name but the investigator did take a photocopy of -  I said to the lady she must write down the time I came in there and the time that I waited and the statement that I was told that I mean they are alive and I shouldn't bother them.
The following day I was sent to another police lady now called Hilda.  I stood in her office she received a phone call she told me sorry I can't help you somebody has burnt my meat at home and my child is not well come back tomorrow.  Then I said no ways,  I would  rather see the station commander.  I was then taken to Captain Memela,  Captain Memela coincidentally stays in the same grey area I stay in,  in Mandalay.  And he told me look I know you are teacher and you should understand,  give me your particulars I'll come back to you.  He hasn't come back to me until now.
And then I went again to the same lady that I got hold of, the first lady that I got hold of and that lady told me that now according to the records we have,  this man died of a car accident.  He was driving - no he was shot while driving recklessly.  Then I told this police lady this man couldn't even drive, how could he be shot driving recklessly if he can't drive. 
Then he said meneer I can only write that you were here for you to give it to your employer,  further than this statement there's nothing I can give you.  So at the briefing I gave all the particulars to the investigator - thank you.

DR RANDERA: Madodomzi, thank you very much.   Before I hand over to my fellow Commissioners I just want to clarify a few things with you and Richard.  What time did you arrive at the hospital, sorry Richard and Mzimkhulu can you remember Richard?

RICHARD PHIKANI: We arrived at the hospital at one.  It was 100 am.

DR RANDERA: And Madodomzi what time did you get there - when you saw your brother-in-law.

MADODOMZI KAMA: If it was not after six, it was something to seven.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.  I just want you to go with your statement earlier on when you said that the hospitals at that time where an extension of the police stations.  Can you just explain what you meant about that?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Ja what I meant was that if somebody is shot or if somebody is critically ill or whatsoever, you expect to see them at the intensive care unit,  especially closer to the moments of death.  But the very attitude at the hospital showed us like Richard here, he  was shot in the leg,  nobody did take care, and he was - when I -  when I inquired I was told that no they are both here but they are - hulle is een van daai sake van die weekend.  Their attitude shows that the hospital is not there for service,  it is just an extension of whatever system is going on outside there.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, can I just ask, you talk about the inquest and the way you were treated at the inquest.  Did you consult besides making a statement at  a police station, did you consult with your own lawyers, were there any inquiries made by your own lawyers about Mzimkhulu's death?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Ja as I stated earlier that it was only myself and my wife who could contribute towards the funeral.  And the funeral wasn't held in Cape  Town it was held in Pearston next to Graaf Reinet so we had to pay for almost everything.
And subsequently to that we couldn't afford the lawyer so we approached the Legal Aid and the Legal Aid told us that we living  above the bread line,  so we don't qualify for a free lawyer.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Orr.

WENDY ORR: How was Mzimkhulu when he died?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Being born 1959 and dying in 1991, I am not certain [intervention]

WENDY ORR: 32?

MADODOMZI KAMA: That's right.

WENDY ORR: And did he have any children?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Ja  he's got a son that has - that is staying with me since his death, the one I said that he said to me at the hospital that is the only property or possession he can call his,  so I can look after it.

WENDY ORR: And how old is that son?

MADODOMZI KAMA: That boy is now doing Standard 10.

WENDY ORR: Have you been supporting him since his father died?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Ja, since his father died and the grandmother is a pensioner.  This boy's case is a big pathetic, because his - the boy's mother is married and one of the conditions of the marriage was that -  he doesn't - he doesn't become a nuisance in that  marriage, so we had to keep the boy.

WENDY ORR: What would you like to ask the Truth and Reconciliation Commissioner to do for you and your family?

MADODOMZI KAMA: Ja besides me and my family at large okay  end of Tape 20 side B ...... I mean [indistinct] but one is an extension of the other, and at the end of the day, if one sits down and think when is this going to end.  Because it's only last week that I went to the police station and I am sure if somebody says at the Truth Commission by next week we are going to get the death certificate, now how long will it take South Africa for people to get Commissions for a simple thing, maybe next week if you need an ID, you need another Commission in order to get it.
But in as far as - in as far as the boy's life is concerned, I may never be sure, like if - if after this - after this Truth Commission myself and my wife get a car accident, we both die, it means that boy is dead as well.  And I may never be sure whether my own children will accept the boy as they grow older.
So if possible I would love that the Truth Commission assist in the education of that boy, as well as accommodation of that boy.  Because in the old end, he is got to contribute maybe to peace - towards peace in this country, he will have felt the pain, and he will have felt maybe how to forgive, thank you.

WENDY ORR: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes Pumla Gobodo.