Amnesty Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — 1997-07-30

MR WILLS: Now, in respect of the incident for which you have been convicted, and I am specifically referring to the incident which occurred on the 26th of September 1996, did you yourself get paid or get any personal gain for committing the deed that you committed.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I did not get anything out of it or benefitted out of this.

MR WILLS: Now, I want you to tell us about the period prior to the incident in 1992.  I want you to tell us how the violence started and what actually occurred and I am specifically am not asking you about the incident on the 26th of September, I am asking you about the period prior to that.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: The violence started in 1991.  ANC members were being shot.  Mantutu was one of the people who got shot. This was Mantutu Poswa at Strandkloof in Pinetown.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Poswa, Mr Poswa.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Poswa, we would like you to slow your pace, because we have interpreters who have to interpret what you say to English.

CHAIRPERSON: Give us that name again?

MR WILLS: The name given, as I understand it, Mr Chairperson, was Mantutu Poswa and I have got it spelt
M A N T U T U, Mantutu Poswa.

CHAIRPERSON: From Pinetown did he say?

MR WILLS: He was, if I can just clear that up.  Sorry, what happened to Mantutu Poswa?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: I made a mistake, I will like to withdraw that statement about Mantutu Poswa.  He was not killed in 1991, he was killed in 1992.

MR WILLS: Okay, let us try and start off at the beginning.  You have indicated that the violence started in 1991.  What happened in that year?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: In 1991 Msolwa Basi was shot, but he did not die.

MR WILLS: If I can just clarify that Msolwa Basi, is that M S O L W A, Basi, B A S I?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, yes.  That is correct.

MR WILLS: And who, in your opinion, was responsible for shooting Msolwa Basi?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: It was Namawakwe Gillie and Keswa Poswa.

MR WILLS: These two persons you have mentioned, what political organisation did they belong to?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Msolwa was an ANC member.

MR WILLS: And the other two people, Namawakwe Gillie and Keswa Poswa?  What political organisation did they belong to?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: May you please repeat the question.

MR WILLS: You have indicated that two persons by the name of Namawakwe Gillie and Keswa Poswa were, in your view, responsible for the shooting at of Mantutu, sorry, of Msolwa Basi.  I want to know, those two people, Namawakwe Gillie and Keswa Poswa, what political organisation did they belong to.  If you know that please tell the committee.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Namawakwe Gillie is an IFP member, very active.  Keswa Poswa is an IFP member too.

MR WILLS: Now this ...

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Wills, is it Keswa Poswa or Becker Poswa?

MR WILLS: I, my understanding of the evidence at this stage is that it is Keswa Poswa.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: It is Keswa Poswa.

MR WILLS: Okay, now this Namawakwe Gillie, is he the same person who I referred to earlier who, in fact, is one of the deceased in the incident that occurred on the 26th of September?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.  He is Namawakwe, an IFP member.

MR WILLS: Now, okay, turning to 1992 now and the earlier part of 1992, were there any further acts of violence during that year?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, in 1992 Spatelie, my son, was shot.

MR WILLS: Was your son a member of any organisation?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes, he was an ANC member and he was also a leader.

MR WILLS: And what was his role in the ANC, for the ANC in the Gengeshe community?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: He was an activist who encouraged people to join the ANC at Gengeshe.

MR WILLS: Your instructions to me were that, in fact, he was an ANC organiser.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And your ...

CHAIRPERSON: How old was he?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: He died at 27.

MR WILLS: That incident occurred on the 12th of the fourth 1992.  Is that correct?  That is the 12th of April 1992.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, I believe that the day before this killing, the police came to, the South African Police came to Gengeshe.  Can you tell the committee what they did?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: After the son was shot, they came to take him to the mortuary.

MR WILLS: Mr Poswa, please listen carefully, you have misunderstood my question.  I am talking about the day before, ie, the 11th of April 1994.  The day before your son was shot the police came to Gengeshe.  Can you tell the committee what happened?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Police came on the 11th at home.  Those were soldiers.  They searched the home.  They were in, accompanied by Mr Matthyson, who is a farmer.  They searched the house and went away and on the next, the following day my son was killed.

MR WILLS: When you say "the house", is that the house, are you referring, whose house are you referring to?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They searched the whole homestead.

MR WILLS: Your homestead.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Yes.

MR WILLS: And what were they searching for?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They were looking for arms.

MR WILLS: Did they find any arms?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: They did not find anything.

CHAIRPERSON: What was the name of the farmer again?

MR WILLS: Please can you repeat the name of the farmer that was with the soldiers?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: He is from Gengeshe.

MR WILLS: What is his name?  You gave the name Matthyson, is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Mr Matthyson, Kongolo, it is Kongolo in Zulu.

MR WILLS: Now, did anything happen as a result of the death of your son, that attack involving the death of your son?  I mean, what did the community, and by that I refer to those people in the community who were allied to the ANC, what did they do at this time?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: After my son was killed we all left Gengeshe and went to stay and Ndaleni.  We were, those were the ANC members.

MR WILLS: And what happened to the houses of those members?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: The houses were burnt.

MR WILLS: Do you know who was involved in the attack on your son?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: My son was killed by Keswa Poswa.  He shot him with a firearm and he was in the company of Namawakwe, Becker Poswa.

MR WILLS: Were there any other people involved whose names you do not remember?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: No, those were the only people that I know.

MR WILLS: Now, as I understand your evidence, it is to the effect that the ANC members of the community left Gengeshe and went to Ndaleni and this is the township which is just on the perimeter of Richmond.  Is that correct?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: That is correct.

MR WILLS: Now, can you tell the committee whether or not the police investigated this, the murder of your son.

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Police got the message, the case was reported, but they did not do anything.

MR WILLS: Now, what steps did you take?  You have been chased away or you had left your homes, what steps did you take in order to attempt to go back to your homes?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: We went back to our houses on the 26th and we were attacked.

MR WILLS: No, I am referring to earlier incidents.  Did you take any steps prior to going back on the 26th to try and negotiate you returning to your homes?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: My son was shot on the 12th.  On the 13th Armond Poswa and Vimba Poswa and Fana Poswa went to Gengeshe to try to find some peaceful settlement of the issue.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Wills, can we have those names again.  He is rattling and we cannot keep up?

MR WILLS: Yes.  Mr Poswa, thank you.  You must remember that this process is being translated and people are also taking notes.  So we want you to go more slowly when you are giving your evidence.  So, can you tell us the names of the people who went to Gengeshe to negotiate?

MANDLENKOSI T POSWA: Armond Poswa, Vimba Poswa, Fana Poswa.