Human Rights Violation Hearings — Soweto — 1996-07-26

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 ... very often it really wasn't relevant to a defence or to mitigation of sentence.

MR LEWIN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Just one brief question.  You mention that people are remarkable. They do change.  When a fellow Commissioner asked your views in view of the fact that the very people who previously were silent about human rights violaionts within the legal system, are still in those positions of power.
 I just want to know your view in this regard, because based on what we have been hearing, most people who have been appearing before the Commission,  they are saying at one time or another they looked forward to a day when they will appear before the magistrate and be able to tell their story, but often they were experienced as people who were being on the side of whoever had been torturing them.  I wonder whether a public apology or admission on the part of the legal system is a possibility, as that seems to be, would be an important vehicle for many people to begin to 
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heal and have respect for the law. I would just like to hear your comment on that.

KATHLEEN SATCHWELL: I don't speak on behalf of any lawyer other than myself. I know that there were things that I could have done better.  I studied law in South Africa during the apartheid era. I passed examinations in that law. I was admitted as an attorney and I appeared in court and I swore to uphold the laws of this country.  That meant I swore to uphold the apartheid laws.  I am one of those lawyers who practised law in an apartheid society.  I don't speak on behalf of any other lawyer or on any organised basis for the profession as a whole.  I don't know whether it would not be appropriate for any kind of apology to be made by anybody else.

YASMINE SOOKA: Kathy, I always think that you are very, very hard upon yourself, because at the time when there were few lawyers who assisted people like Linda Mogale, you were one of the critical ones, always trying to find a method and a mechanism, using the very same laws, but to protect your client and make sure that they were able to access justice.
 The 13 reasons that you give for your submission are ones which I think challenge us all to look at and to look at ways of reforming that.  During this week we have had many cases.  We have had evidence where most detainees in fact criticised the way the legal system operated.  Many of them expecting magistrates, district surgeons to protect them, found often that that did not happen.  But there were also times when there were magistrates who did listen to them and who did make efforts to intervene.
 I think that what we need to do is to make sure that more and more magistrates, more Judges, more practitioners 
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are educated about the way the law can be used, in fact, to uphold the rights of people.  I think for young lawyers like myself, who came after you, you were an example. I know that you often think that you didn't do enough, but for us you were in fact a hero figure.  We thank you for the submissions.  
 Lawyers like yourself and Krish Govender, have in fact challenged us to look deep within the way we practice our profession.  However, often the scrutiny is never initiated from the sides of those who need to scrutinise themselves much more closely.
 We appreciate the submission and it will certainly form the basis of a discussion which we intend to hold with the legal profession, because if it is to be a pillar of our society and a pillar for transformation in this country, then it also needs to examine itself critically to see what role it can play in a transforming society.  Thank you very, very much.
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