Human Rights Violation Hearings — Grahamstown — 1997-04-07

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Edward Gugwana Menzi to come forward.  Who is Edward?  Thank you, and who are you, Sir.

MR M MENZI: I am Mbulelo Menzi.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you going to testify in support of Edward?

MR M MENZI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Reverend Xundu to help you take an oath and lead you with questions on behalf of the Commission.

EDWARD GUGWANA MENZI: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.

MBULELO MENZI: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you.  I will now ask you questions.  Briefly, I would like you to give me a picture of what was happening at that time so that I can ask questions.

MR E G MENZI: In 1986 in Cookhouse there was an organisation by the name of KORA.  The organisation was launched in 1985 by the community.  In 1986 we were together with the Kakana family in this organisation.  The Kakana family had their meetings and the community did not like that.  Mr Kakana had, was the owner of a shop and one, Mr Xhalanga, also had a shop.  He was together with them.  People were told not to buy in Xhalanga's shop and Kakana's shop.  As I was also having a shop they thought that I was the one who influenced people not to buy in their shops.
 On the 27th of February in 1986,  this young man next to me, Mbulelo, called me and he say, father, in Xhalanga's shop he heard a gossip about me, but he did not tell me exactly what was said.  As we were in the shop with my wife, together with Mangoweni's boy, young men came.  I asked them what was happening.  They said that they were seeing Kakana's family.  As I was still looking at that I saw a group of men coming in.  I did not see what they had in their hands.  I looked at them, they took out their weapons.  Some had pangas and hammers.  There was Xolisile and Sicuku Jantjies.  They came to me with their weapons.  I  ran to the storeroom.  I took one empty drink bottle.  I did not want to give them my bag.  I ran to a corner, but I thought that that will not help me, I must go back to them.  I fell down, they came to me and they stabbed me in the back.  I was dizzy at that time.  There was one of them, Boom, with a sword and he stabbed me in the back.  I fell down.

REV XUNDU: In the community there was an AZAPO and UDF, is that so?

MR E G MENZI: They were calling themselves AZAPO.

REV XUNDU: Was it recently?

MR E G MENZI: Yes, it was a recent thing.

REV XUNDU: You said that you were belonging to a same organisation KORA?

MR E G MENZI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: But they have changed and they called themselves AZAPO?

MR E G MENZI: Yes, they had their own meetings and they called themselves AZAPO members.

REV XUNDU: You mentioned Xhalanga.  Was he in connection with the police?

MR E G MENZI: Yes, Xhalanga had a connection with the police.  There is a bridge from Cookhouse.  One day I was passing in that bridge.  He was there with the police.  I decided to go back.  When I was going back the police van was leaving.  I met him in one meeting because he was attending our meetings.  He said to me, you saw me when I was talking to the police.  I said, yes.  He said that the police wanted to know our involvement in the organisation.  I could see that he was just trying to cover for himself.

REV XUNDU: Was AZAPO a launched organisation there?

MR E G MENZI: I do not know about that.

REV XUNDU: Did you have a position in the UDF?

MR E G MENZI: No, I was just a member of this Cradock organisation.

REV XUNDU: Were you a Chairperson?

MR E G MENZI: No, I was just a member.

REV XUNDU: This conflict divided people in the community.  Others were AZAPO members and others were UDF members.

MR E G MENZI: People who were members of AZAPO were Kakana family and Sicuku Jantjies.

REV XUNDU: When these people were assaulting Nomakhaya Shlanya, please tell us about this day.

MR E G MENZI: When I went out of the storeroom, it was the same day, I met people outside.  I asked them to give me a towel to bandage my head.  They gave me a towel.  I asked where my wife was.  They told me she was in the shop.  When I went in the shop I saw a pool of blood.   She was lying down.  I decided to follow these people.  I went to my house looking for my own weapons.  Thosameli Sigwebu came, he said that you are injured.  He took my wife to hospital.   He said that I must go to hospital because I was injured.  I then agreed, he took me to hospital and I was told that Nomakhaya died.

REV XUNDU: Did the police come to take statements to you?

MR E G MENZI: The police came the following day when I was coming from the hospital.  It was on the 28th.  When I arrived at the hospital I was told my wife had passed away.  I was released the following morning by the doctor.  When I arrived at home the police came.  They asked me how I felt.  I said I was still in pain.  They told me when I was feeling better I must go to the police station to tell them what happened.  I wanted to know at home what happened when I left.  They told me that the police did not come.  They came at night at about 12, because Kakana Dickie was shot.  They took this Dickie with a van.  It was then that the police came.  I was not there, but my boy told me.  I could see that the police did not care, because they did not come when we were injured, they only came when Dickie was injured.  One police came, Blackies, came to me saying that I must give them a statement.  I told him I am not going to do that, I want another police to come.

REV XUNDU: Did that police come?

MR E G MENZI: No, but he met my son.  He asked a statement from my son and that was the end of it.

REV XUNDU: Was there a court case?

MR E G MENZI: No.

REV XUNDU: Did you go to any Attorneys?

MR E G MENZI: No.

REV XUNDU: The people who entered your shop, did you know all of them?

MR E G MENZI: I know Boom, Sicuku Jantjies, Kolisile, Kakana, Mpendulo Kakana, Mongamela Kakana, Madusa Kakana.  Those were the ones who came in the shop.

REV XUNDU: You buried your wife?

MR E G MENZI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Were you disrupted by the police?

MR E G MENZI: No, but they were just there to observe.

REV XUNDU: After that you went back to your normal lives?

MR E G MENZI: After the funeral the community decided to chase away the Kakana family from the township.  They stayed near the police station.  Their shops were burnt, Xhalanga's shop and Kakana's shop.  The people from the community could not go near the police station because they would be harassed by these two families.  People were not allowed to or have weapons, but the Kakana family had weapons.  There were people like Madusa who were killed.

REV XUNDU: After all this did the Kakana family go back to the township?

MR E G MENZI: Yes, they came back to the township at the time of the State of Emergency.  I heard that they had a high fence so that the people from the community cannot go in.  They came to me, the woman of Kakana's family, came to me to apologise.

REV XUNDU: Are you still in Cookhouse?

MR E G MENZI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: Still continuing with your shop?

MR E G MENZI: Yes.

REV XUNDU: The ones who came to you, who assaulted you, did they come to apologise to you, these men you have just mentioned?

MR E G MENZI: No, some of them are in Fort Beaufort, some of them have passed away, but they did not come to me to apologise.

REV XUNDU: Only their wives came to you to apologise.   You, as men, you still have conflict?

MR E G MENZI: I am not satisfied, because the people who assaulted me did not come to me and apologise.

REV XUNDU: The police that took statement from your son, what did they do?

MR E G MENZI: They did nothing, they just took a statement from my  son.

REV XUNDU: What is your request to the Commission?