Amnesty Hearings — Kimberley — 1997-10-28

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] client going to testify?

MR TSHOLANKU: Mr Chairman, Mr Smiles informs me he is comfortable with Afrikaans.

ADV DE JAGER: Can you give us your full names please?

WALTER SMILES: Walter Smiles.

WALTER SMILES: (sworn states)

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Smiles, it appears in this meeting that you were a member of the ANC between the 25th of May '93?

WALTER SMILES: That's correct.

MR TSHOLANKU: Regarding the incident which happened on the 25th May 1993, it appears to the Committee that you were involved in this incident.

WALTER SMILES: That's correct.

MR TSHOLANKU: Can you tell the Committee which role you played on that day regarding that incident?

WALTER SMILES: Repeat the question please?

ADV DE JAGER: Just a moment.  Mr Mpshe can't the two microphones work at the same time, should it be switched off and on so he could keep his on?

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Tsholanku, if you so wish you can put your questions in English and they will be translated to your client, if you so elect.

MR TSHOLANKU: Madam, I'm indebted to you.  I'm more comfortable in English than in Afrikaans, I'll gladly do that.
	Mr Smiles, the question that I asked or posed to you was, would you kindly explain to the Committee as to what was your involvement on the incident that took place on the 25th day of May 1993 in Kimberley.

WALTER SMILES: My involvement was I'm a member of the marshall structure and I joined the marshall structure in 1990.

MR TSHOLANKU: I don't think you understand my question that I'm addressing to you, I'll try and rephrase it.  We have ...[intervention]

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Tsholanku, I wonder if he assist - the technician can assist Mr Smiles in making sure that he's getting the translation in Afrikaans.

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you Madam.  Now Mr Smiles, I want you to listen carefully.  On the 25th day of May 1993, there was an explosion in Kimberley ...[intervention]

SISI KHAMPEPE: Sorry, to intervene again Mr Tsholanku, was it the 25th or the 24th - maybe that's why he does not understand your question.

MR TSHOLANKU: Madam, I have it here as the 25th day of May, the reason being there are newspaper reports which appeared in the newspaper on the 26th and they referred to an incident that took place "yesterday" which I am inclined to believe was the 25th, that is why I refer to it as the incident of the 25th.  I'll try and explain to Mr Smiles as to exactly what is this incident that we're talking about.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Smiles, can you remember the date because in some of the papers it's referred to as the 24th and now there's evidence about the 25th according to the newspapers.  Can you help us?

WALTER SMILES: I can't remember.

ADV DE JAGER: You can't remember, thank you.

MR VISSER: Maybe I may of assistance Mr Chairman, not by cross-examining but by giving you information, this matter was dealt with at the trial and it was established that it was a Tuesday the 25th of May, although all the applications for amnesty refer to it as the 24th, it was in fact the 25th.

MR TSHOLANKU: Thank you.
	Now, we know you were involved in some way or another in this particular blast, can you explain to the Committee as to exactly what was your involvement in this particular blast at the Trust Bank Centre as it was commonly known then?

WALTER SMILES: I remember the day I was contacted by the Major, there were some seats at the tickey stop and he found me there and picked me up and he took me to the arena, it was a march organised by ANC and COSAS but I was still in the motorcar.  And while I was in the car we went with the march up to the OK - a four-way, an Indian centre.  I got out with a white bag.

MR TSHOLANKU: Please continue.

WALTER SMILES: In the white bag was a handbag which was wrapped up in newspaper.  I went with the march up to the Trust Bank building, when we got to the Trust Bank building I got out of the car, I got an instruction from my commander Laurens Mbatha and the instruction I got I accepted because he was a member of MK.

MR TSHOLANKU: What was the instruction that you received from Laurens Mbatha?

WALTER SMILES: The instruction I got from Laurens Mbatha was that we were close to the Bophuthatswana Consulate building and what happened, we had to give a signal into the Bophuthatswana building.

MR TSHOLANKU: Continue.

WALTER SMILES: And at the time when I got the hand grenade the mission to take care that nobody got hurt - I tried to do that.  At the time when I threw the hand grenade - before I threw the hand grenade, the petitions had already been handed over and the marchers were returning.  When the marchers were returning, that was the right time to throw the hand grenade into the Trust Bank building.  At the time when I threw the hand grenade, I primed it and I hid it away so nobody could see it.
	At the time when I threw the hand grenade - the doors were still open and the people were leaving, then I took out the pin and I held the hand grenade and I threw it.  At the moment when I threw the hand grenade and the security guard came out - there was a security guard, and he came out and the hand grenade hit him on the forehead, fell down and rolled away and that cause all the injuries and the death.

MR TSHOLANKU: You threw the hand grenade and it exploded as you explained, now after you threw the hand grenade, what did you do?

WALTER SMILES: I went to the other side, I went and laid down and I stood up and when I got up I crossed the same road.  There was a place downstairs - and then I smashed the whole pin, then the police came and pulled us out from that place.  To be quite honest it was very disturbing ...[intervention]

ADV DE JAGER: You went across the road and then - you said something about: "to splash it" or something with the pin or hand grenade, what precisely are you saying?

WALTER SMILES: There are two pins, there's one you pull out and the other one you unscrew - I took out that pin, that would have been evidence so I smashed that pin.

MR TSHOLANKU: And this you did across the road from the Trust Bank Centre - if I understand you?

WALTER SMILES: No, the pin - on the other side there was a building, there were toilets - I went there and I then stashed them away there.

MR TSHOLANKU: You destroyed the pins in the toilets downstairs in this building across the road?

WALTER SMILES: That is correct.

MR TSHOLANKU: ...[inaudible] you stashed the pins in this toilet - this building across the road, what happened?  What did you do?

WALTER SMILES: I went outside, I walked and I went to the ANC office and I wanted to report the matter to my commander and I had to explain that is was unsuccessful,  there were people who were injured.  We then took the bakkie, phoned the ambulances for the people who were injured.

MR TSHOLANKU: When you went to the ANC offices to report this matter to the commander, was the commander there?

WALTER SMILES: Yes, that's correct, he was present.

MR TSHOLANKU: And you reported that the operation was unsuccessful, what did you do from there - having reported that the operation was unsuccessful, what did you do from there?

WALTER SMILES: I helped him to pick up people who could not stand up.

MR TSHOLANKU: Was that at the scene of the blast?

WALTER SMILES: Yes.

MR TSHOLANKU: What did you do with these people, where did you take them?

WALTER SMILES: We took them to the hospital.

MR TSHOLANKU: Having taken these people to hospital, what happened thereafter?

WALTER SMILES: What happened afterwards is I went home.

MR TSHOLANKU: Now, can you remember exactly when was the hand grenade handed over to you on this particular day?

WALTER SMILES: It was at the time of the march - in the motor vehicle.

MR TSHOLANKU: And who handed the grenade to you?

WALTER SMILES: It was Laurens Mbatha.

MR TSHOLANKU: And when he handed the grenade to you, were you the only two in the car?