Amnesty Hearings — Pietersburg — 1997-06-30

MR BLACK: We will be hearing the applications of 14 applicants.  Mr Chairman, there has been a delay in commencing this matter.  The applicant who is currently, that is Mr Sehlwana who is sitting across from me, I don't think anyone has yet shown him how to operate the speaker and the earphones.  I am looking for someone that could possibly assist.

BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE: Just for the record today is the 30th of June 1997.  This is a joint hearing of the following applications.  I am going to cite all their names only today, but from tomorrow onwards we will only be citing perhaps the first and the second applicants.
	It's a joint hearing of applications by the following people:
M M Sehlwana, application no. 3747/96;
	A J G Erwee, application 4135/96;
	N S Coetsee, 4369/96
J P van den Berg, 4367/96
	W J van der Merwe, 4380/96
	PPFF Fuchs, 4138/96
	J H Kruger, 4147/96
	L M Pretorius, 4366/96
	PTCJ Fourie, 4137/96
	J Venter, 4381/96
	J H van Dyk, 4370/96
	F C S Swarts, 4512/96
Jan Strydom, 4368/96
	P A Dreyer, 4128/96.
	The Amnesty Committee is constituted as follows:  Myself, Judge Ngoepe, to my right is attorney Khampepe and to my left is Adv de Jager, SC.   Yes Mr Black.

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman in the present matter there were six deceased and the identities of three of the deceased could only be traced.  The reasons are as follows.  Even at the inquest stage only three of the six deceased could also be traced.
	I am informed as follows by the Investigative Unit that the six parties who were killed entered South Africa with false identities.  Although the fingerprints of all six were taken, as already indicated even at the inquest stage, three of the six parties couldn't be traced.   
	Captain Loots who was involved in investigating this matter from the outset, since 1986, he says he made several attempts before the inquest stage even to trace the families of all six deceased.  Three families were traced, that's the Alset family, Maloi family and Migashoa family.  They are present today and they have been notified.  They in turn were unable to assist in identifying the remaining three persons.  As I say, according to the South African Police the fingerprints were not listed at all, of the three who couldn't be traced in South Africa, no information can be found and no positive results have emerged.  
	The code names of the deceased which were used as they were members of Umkhonto weSizwe were given to the African National Congress head office at Shell House.  Captain Molapo, the investigating officer spoke to the ANC personnel, they were aware of their code names, but the current addresses or information of the unidentified three parties wasn't forthcoming from the ANC, they have no idea as to where they are.

ADV DE JAGER: But haven't they got an idea about their true identity if they've got the code names?

MR BLACK: Well according to Captain Molapo he says no.  He is present today and should you require any further information from him as to what steps were taken he's willing to inform the Committee.
	Captain Molapo has also informed me that the three unidentified parties are buried in Louis Trichardt and he's spent an entire week going through mortuary records and documentation to that effect in order to try and identify the graves.  He said he was unable, up until today, to trace the actual burial sites of the three unidentified parties, but he's still going to continue working on it and perhaps some light might emerge from records in Pretoria.  
	So I submit that every possible attempt has been made to try and identify the three unidentified parties and there'll be ongoing attempts made to go through the records to try and establish the exact burial sites of the three.
	The implicated parties mentioned in the documents have all been notified, except for one party that's a Lieutenant Fraser, Captain Molapo says he was unable to trace.  If the Committee will just bear with me briefly.

SISI KHAMPEPE: Mr Black before you proceed to the issue of the implicated parties, has the Investigative Unit of the Truth Commission not been able to get in touch with the informer, Mr Mabinda to try and determine the identities of the three people who can't be located now?

MR BLACK: Well I am told not, and Captain Molapo - he is present, I'm not sure what the steps he's taken as far as the informer is concerned, but I've understood that he has made those ...  Could Captain Molapo perhaps indicate what steps, he is present.
	Then as far as the operation is concerned, the South African Defence Force played a supportive role in the execution of this operation and during the course of the operation a certain Captain was wounded.  I have received a report from the South African Defence Force.  Perhaps I could hand copies in for the sake of the Committee and to my learned friends.  
	The Committee will note from a fax which forms part of the bundle, a fax dated 17 June to Captain Imrie a number of questions were put to the members of the Defence Force, a copy of that fax is part of the bundle.  	In brief I was in touch with Brigadier Slabbert. He advises that the officer who was in charge as appears from his report, a certain Lt Colonel Merholz, who was in charge of this particular operation, is no longer - he has been killed in a car accident, and they, the Defence Force, are unable to throw further light on the background as to how they became involved in this operation.  And the particular Captain who is mentioned in the papers as having been wounded is a British citizen and is now living in England.  	As you will note from the report of the Defence Force they said they are unable to establish who specifically authorised the SADF participation.
	In the circumstances I submit that everything, all interested parties and implicated parties have been notified.
	I have spoken to my learned friends, Advocate Visser who represents applicants listed as B1 to B13 and Mr Rossouw of Rooth and Wessels represents the first applicant, Mr Sehlwana, and subject to the approval of the Committee it has been agreed between the legal representatives that the application of Mr Sehlwana first be heard, and Mr Sehlwana I understand will testify in Northern Sotho and Mr Rossouw will lead his evidence, from Rooth and Wessels.

CHAIRPERSON: Maybe they could just formally place themselves on record, and Mr Visser.

MR ROSSOUW: As it pleases the Committee Mr Chairman, my name is Rossouw, I am from the firm of Rooth and Wessels in Pretoria representing the applicant, Mr Sehlwana.  My colleague is Mr Albert Lami, also from Rooth and Wessels, assisting.

ADV VISSER: May it please you Mr Chairman and members of the Committee.  My name is L J L Visser.  I appear for the applicants listed under "B" on your roll, instructed by Wagner, Muller and du Plessis, from Pretoria Mr Chairman.
	Mr Chairman while I have the word may I just draw your attention, we don't want to argue about it at all, but may we draw your attention to the fact that apparently the application of Mr Sehlwana was signed after the cut-off date for applications to be filed with the Truth Commission, namely it was signed apparently on the 10th of June, the 6th of June.  We just want to draw your attention to that fact.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman may I explain to the Committee that there were in fact two applications filed by Mr Sehlwana, the first application was filed timeously, the exact date which I will furnish.  What happened is subsequent to that first application, this application which is now before the Committee was supplemented, it's a supplementary application.  The initial application was, I understood there was no information revealed at that stage as to the nature or details of the operation.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.    Mr Sehlwana would you please stand up.

MAROPENG MATTHEWS SEHLWANA: (sworn states)