Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pietermaritzburg — UNKNOWN

WITNESS:   In truth I think I have come to terms with this.  I keep on telling myself that maybe this is my destiny.  Maybe God meant it for me to be like this.  Then I shall live my life as I have.  Because whenever I am alone sitting, whenever I think of these things that happened to me I opened my Bible in Proverbs 1, verse 71, where they tell me that if you want to understand the ways of the Lord then you ought somehow to go through hardships.

MRS GCABASHE: We thank you for your courage.  You have lost your husband, you have lost your children.  I wish that the Lord could help you through this period.

THOKO NORA DLUNGWANE AND ZODWA NTOMBELA: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: (Incomplete) ... to assist you in the giving of your evidence.

MR LAX: Thank you, Chairperson.  Good afternoon, Mrs Dlungwane.  Can you hear me properly?  Thank you.  Welcome to the Commission's hearing in 'Maritzburg.  You've come to tell us about the death of your husband, Ndleleni Anthony Dlungwane, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Could you please just tell us a little bit about your family and what it consists of?

WITNESS:   I have got five kids and their father, who is now late.  They are all at school, except for one boy who now left school because there is no money to carry on.  The eldest was born in 1973 and '75, '78, the fourth 1981, the last one 1985.

MR LAX: Is it correct ... (inaudible) ... was born on the 8th of September 1951?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... 23rd of May 1990.

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR LAX: Tell us what happened on the day that he died, and how he died.

WITNESS:   I would like to relate to you about before the 23.  On the 17th people came to my house and they told us that we should wake up and run away, because Jerome died because other people have sent people to kill Jerome.  "And there's a rumour that you were involved in sending these people to go and kill Jerome."  We sat there, and my husband said, "We aren't running away, we are going to stay here."  On Wednesday, on the 23 of May, it was past five I came home.  Usually my husband came at home 6 o'clock.  At 6 o'clock I heard a gunshot and I saw someone around the kitchen, and my daughter stood up quickly and closed the door.  And I told my daughter not to close the door, because I said, "It might be your father."  And then when she was there at the door they said - he came inside the house and then he said, "Two people are outside and they shot me," and then he was shot at the waist and his feet, but he was still talking, he could relate to us.  We phoned the hospital because we were looking for the ambulance, and they told us there are no ambulances.  And then soldiers came to our house while we were still waiting for the ambulance, and then the soldiers checked him and they said, "Oh, this one is supposed to die because you are COSATU, you are a member of COSATU.  Don't you know that COSATU is killing people?  Inkatha now is killing you because you have been killing people."  And my neighbour came to offer transportation and the soldiers said, "No, he must wait for the ambulance.  He must wait here until the ambulance arrives."  And then they said, "He must wait here.  Even if he dies it's okay because he is COSATU."  We waited for a long time.  At about 10 to seven ambulance arrived, and he couldn't speak at that time.  We went to hospital, and when we arrived at the hospital he died.  We came back at night.  One woman who was Xhosa said to us that, "These people who killed your husband were two.  I don't know whether I'll be able to stand for this to tell people that I saw this guy, but I saw him."  And then the police came and asked me who killed him, and I said to them, "No, I don't know who did, but one woman who saw the people who killed my husband said she won't stand for it, she is scared."  In the morning the police came back to my house and they said to me, "We ask that this person who said she saw these people must come forward to give her testimony."  /And this

MR LAX: And this woman decided to left Imbali location because she was scared that people will kill her.  And then police came back and said, "Now that you don't have a witness there's nothing we can do.  There's no one we can arrest.  We will release the suspects because there are no witnesses."  They were released then and police never came back to me.  Nothing happened afterwards.  I remained at home alone at Imbali.  I was tortured, I was attacked, and one time I can remember one guy from my neighbour was shot at my house.  I just couldn't get any rest.  Up until now I don't have a house, I don't have a home, I am staying in other people's houses.

MR LAX: You've told us that your husband was shot at about 6 o'clock, so it took approximately an hour for an ambulance to arrive, is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: And during that time these soldiers refused to let your neighbour take your husband to the hospital.

WITNESS:   Yes, it's true.

MR LAX: Did the soldiers do any first aid of any kind?

WITNESS:  No, they didn't do.  They just looked at him, but there was no first aid given to him.  They just looked at him.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... unit these soldiers were from?

WITNESS:  No.  No, they were just too dark, and they used to go with the boers.

MR LAX: You've told us that a suspect was arrested.  Who was this person?

WITNESS:   Awetha guy.  I don't know by seeing him.  I just know his name, and people did - he is Seun Awetha.  Awetha is his father, but I just know his name as Seun Awetha.

MR LAX: If we can move on then.  Sorry, one other question.  This witness who left Imbali, do you know who she is?  Do you know her name?  Maybe we could get her now.

WITNESS:   I just don't remember her name, but I can identify her by merely looking at her.

MR LAX: Would any of your neighbours be able to give us that person's name maybe, if you could make inquiries?

WITNESS:   I don't know, because I am no longer staying there because I don't have a house any more.  I am now moving up and down.

MR LAX: Thank you very much.  It is correct that you do have a death certificate, is it not?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR LAX: Or can I say a copy of that death certificate.

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR LAX: If we could then please move on to Mrs Zodwa Ntombela.

MR LAX: /ZODWA

MR LAX: ZODWA NTOMBELA   (Previously sworn, states)

MR LAX: Before I proceed with your evidence, Mrs Ntombela ... (Incomplete - end of Side B, Tape 2) ... if we could then move to your statement.  If you could tell us about the Ntombela family a little bit, how many children there were, etcetera.

WITNESS:   There's 12 of us at home.  11 actually, one boy and 10 girls.  Six of them have died.  One boy died during the unrest, so six are now living.  We were 13 including our parents.  Those two are married.  That is my eldest sister, Mrs Dlungwane.  The other one is Mrs Nxumalo, and I am the third one.  And there's Nonhlanhla Ntombela after me.  There's Fisani Ntombela, who is attending school at Zixongweni, and Nick Ntongweni who is studying at ... (inaudible) ... those are the living ones.

MR LAX: Is your brother Muzi Ntombela who was shot on the

MR LAX: 12th of September 1984?  Is that correct?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... happened.