Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-07-28

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is entirely incorrect because Colonel De Kock was the Commander, however, I was told that this had to be adjusted for the purposes of the statements for the post mortem inquest.

CHAIRPERSON: Were you told that by Brigadier Van Wyk?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: The same paragraph, section 5
"... specific orders were issued that our action had to be a surprise action in order to attempt to arrest the terrorists"?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is entirely incorrect and upon my arrival at Piet Retief that evening with the mini-bus, I was told and I cannot recall whether it was Colonel De Kock or Freek Pienaar, but I was told that these persons who were going to be infiltrating, would be armed persons and that we were going to be luring these persons into an ambush in order to shoot them.

MS VAN DER WALT: And then in sub-paragraph (7) of paragraph 3 you mention that the former witness
"... Theron, was specifically tasked to man the pull-over vehicle and to switch on the blue police light"?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is also another one of the adjustments that I had to add in order for this to fit in with the post mortem inquest, that is entirely untrue.

MS VAN DER WALT: Would that be the same position then on page 51, paragraph 6, sub-paragraph (1)?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is totally incorrect.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was no pull-over vehicle?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: No.

MS VAN DER WALT: And then the same paragraph 6.7 the mention of Deetlefs is incorrect, that was supposed to be De Kock?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is correct, it was not Deetlefs who called for the cease fire, it was De Kock.

MS VAN DER WALT: The same page 52, paragraph 9.4, it should also be Mr De Kock instead of Mr Deetlefs?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: It was not Deetlefs, it was De Kock who gave Pienaar the order to transport the bodies.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr Rorich, did you obtain any financial or personal reward from this action?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: No.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you launch this action through any malice towards the persons who were killed?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: No, not at all, I had no idea who these persons were.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you do it, Mr Rorich?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: I did it because I was a Security Policeman who at that stage, was fighting for my country in a war that we were involved in against the ANC and the PAC and the other parties, who wanted to take over our country by means of violence.

MS VAN DER WALT: You are also aware of acts of terror which were committed at that stage in the Republic of South Africa by the terrorists?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, I am thoroughly aware of that.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you personally attend such scenes?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, I attended such scenes personally.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were a Demolitions' Expert, is that correct?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, I was a Bomb Disposal Operative, that is correct and by nature of that, it was part of my task as a Security Policeman to investigate every scene of terror or explosion scene thoroughly and as such, I was involved in the investigation of such incidents.

MS VAN DER WALT: Were you also involved in incidents during which persons were killed?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: By the ANC terrorists?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: You are then requesting from this Amnesty Committee to grant you amnesty for the murder of those persons on the 12th of June, is that correct?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: The persons in the kombi?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: As well as for any other offence which may emanate from that action?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: As well as for defeating the ends of justice and perjury?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Because when you signed the statement, you attested to it under oath even though you had not compiled the statement?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And also for any other illegal deed which may emanate from that?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Prinsloo, do you have any questions?

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Mr Chairman.  Mr Rorich, before you were stationed to Witbank, you were stationed at Ermelo?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And you were involved in infiltrations which were taking place from Swaziland to the Republic, specifically the Eastern Transvaal as it was then known, as well as Natal?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And you have already given evidence about the intensity of acts of terror which took place in the Eastern Transvaal, were you also aware at that stage when this incident took place, that there was a high intensity of infiltration?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And you also heard the evidence that there was a plan to infiltrate 36 trained MK operatives who would commit acts of terrorism in the country?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: According to your opinion, with the manpower at your disposal, would you have been able to use the normal channels in which it was expected of the police to operate, like for example arrest, could this be used to combat the situation?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: No.

MR PRINSLOO: Would it have assisted in any way if people were arrested and others were informed that these persons had been arrested, would they just have continued with the infiltrations?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes, it would have happened like that.

MR PRINSLOO: According to your judgement, at the time of this action, you believed that you were acting legitimately by killing these persons?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Due the atmosphere that reigned at that stage?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PRINSLOO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Mr Cornelius?

MR CORNELIUS: I have no questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hattingh?

MR HATTINGH: I don't have any questions, thank you Mr
Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR HATTINGH

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Booyens?

MR BOOYENS: No questions, thank you Mr Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BOOYENS

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Knight?

MR KNIGHT: No questions, thank you Mr Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR KNIGHT

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lamey?

MR LAMEY: Just one question Mr Chair.  Mr Rorich, was the reason for the arrangement for a kombi that more insurgents were expected than just the four that were ultimately in the mini-bus?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Chairperson, I had no idea of what the correct information was, or what the information was which was conveyed to the Branch at Piet Retief, I had no idea.   I believed it within myself and simply drew an inference of my own, that if one wanted to use a mini-bus for such a purpose, there would be more than two people infiltrating, that it would have to accommodate enough people.

MR LAMEY: Thank you, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Moerane?

MR MOERANE: Thank you Mr Chairman.   Mr Rorich, what is your present rank?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: At the moment I am a retired policeman.

MR MOERANE: When did you leave the Police Service?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: On the 30th of June 1997.

MR MOERANE: What rank had you risen to then?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: I was a Colonel.

MR MOERANE: Stationed where?  Stationed where at the time?

CHRISTIAAN SIEBERT RORICH: Middelburg, at the Regional Office.