Amnesty Hearings — Umtata — 1998-06-18

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No I didn't get to know who was investigating the case.

CHAIRPERSON: Who told you to go to court?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: When a person is being charged he is called and the docket is opened and the particulars are taken and the finger prints are taken. I was never called and charged in that manner. I was just told to go to the court.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you saying that the formal procedures that are required to be gone through when you are charging a person were never complied with in your case?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That never happened.

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) make a statement and thereafter your first appearance was in the High Court?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: We will take the tea adjournment now until quarter past eleven. Thank you.

COMMITTEE ADJOURNS: .
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dukada you have ...(inaudible)

MR DUKADA: Mr Chairman this is various news but the first one with the heading: "Concern grows for safety of detainees in Transkei." It is Survey Trading and the second articles were Sunday Star. The third article is the Eastern Province Herald.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Dilizo have you had sight of these newspaper cuttings?

MR DILIZO: Yes Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have objections to them being ...(inaudible)?

MR DILIZO: No objections Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hugo?

MR HUGO: I have no objection.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Knight?

MR KNIGHT: Mr Chairman I have no objection just subject to of course the probative value of the content it is what it purports to be but you can't go further than that.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Mr Wessels and Mr Matuweni?

MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman it seems that we have not been favoured with copies of these documents.

CHAIRPERSON: I suppose it is because you are behind I suppose. The people often overlook you I suppose.

MR WESSELS: Thank you Mr Chairman but once we receive them we have no problem to deal with that.

CHAIRPERSON: They are just cuttings from various newspapers. These cuttings from the various newspapers will be then admitted as Exhibit C. Is that right? Exhibit C yes very well. Mr Sibanyoni do you have any questions to put to the witness?

MR SIBANYONI: Yes thank you Mr Chairperson. Inspector Dandala where your evidence now before this Committee or your affidavit supporting your application for amnesty differs with previous statements should we see that as an attempt by you to comply with the requirements of this Act or is it an attempt by you to tell the truth as it happened?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: In terms of the affidavit I am saying all the truth and in the first statement of the cover-up process it is true there are a lot of covering up statements there.

MR SIBANYONI: I take it you are aware that what is expected in terms of the TRC Act is that you must make a full disclosure? In other words explain things as they did happen.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is so Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Just another aspect I want to clarify. When you were requested to assist the South African Police operating in Transkei was it for the first time that they were operating or you had information that they did operate before your involvement?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: There were rumours that there were sometimes that the South African Police would come to Transkei and operate on the Transkei territory. Sometimes security sometimes other branches.

MR SIBANYONI: Now is the deceased Batandwa Ndondo was he a South African citizen or was he a Transkeian citizen?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Transkeian citizen.

MR SIBANYONI: According to you what would have happened after he was arrested was he supposed to be charged here in Transkei or taken over to South Africa?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: When arrested in Transkei he must be interrogated and charged in Transkei.

MR SIBANYONI: What was going to happen about him?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That was not explained as to where he was going to be taken after arrest. But I took it when we drove with that kombi we were going to the charge office.

MR SIBANYONI: And was it a surprise to you that you were requested to produce your appointment certificate? I understood you saying that you were not supposed to be known that you are police operating but after Batandwa was in the kombi you were requested to produce your appointment certificate. Was that a surprise to you?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: No it was not a surprise because at the time he was under arrest.

MR SIBANYONI: Another aspect. Before he tried to run away, to escape was the window of the kombi closed or did he open it?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: It was closed and he opened it.

MR SIBANYONI: Right you are saying this was the first and the last instance where you were involved in an operation. I take it you are also saying it shocked you, it surprised you therefore I take it that it is something you will not forget easily including the details as to how it happened. Am I correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: And where either Shabalala or any other person differs with you as to how it happened you are maintaining that your version will be the correct one?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: You are saying Shabalala ... chased the deceased around the house and when they were approaching from behind the house you approached them from the front. Is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: And if I understood you very well yesterday as you were explaining the events you say that was they were approaching the deceased stood and then you fired a shot at him.

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct.

MR SIBANYONI: After he had stopped?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is correct Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: To me it will appear as if you didn't shoot him to either effect an arrest or to stop him from running away but it would appear predominantly that you shot at him because of your concern that if you don't do anything, if you don't participate then these people will come and kill you. Am I understanding you correctly?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct Sir.

MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sibanyoni. Advocate Sigidi?

ADV SIGIDI: It is just one aspect that I want to clarify with you. When you got to Batandwa's home you say that you went in and then you asked for him and you met this tall guy. And went back to the kombi is that correct?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Correct.

ADV SIGIDI: So when he came out he came out on his own free will?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: That is so.

ADV SIGIDI: And in you affidavit you mention that he boarded the kombi on paragraph 19 page 11 he boarded the kombi and they talked to him and he understood the language. And as a result the kombi was turned back up the street towards the charge office direction. So when they talked, in fact who talked to him when he got to the kombi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Bra Mos.

ADV SIGIDI: And what impression did you gain? Did you gain the impression that he knew him or what? Did you gain the impression that he knew Bra Mos before bordering the kombi?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: I thought so that they may have met each other some time back.

ADV SIGIDI: So he just got into the kombi freely and willingly?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: Yes because all of us were inside the kombi. He entered by himself.

ADV SIGIDI: I just want clarity on this language that he spoke because I just want to get the effects around the arrest. Of the language that you said he understood. What kind of language are you referring to?

GCINISIKO LAMONT DANDALA: He said we must take a short ride to discuss something.

ADV SIGIDI: And did he just go with people he had never seen, never met or did you get the impression that he knew these people?