Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-11-23

ADV PRIOR: Sorry Madam Chair that I cut your microphone off.  No, I've consulted with the members of the deceased's family and they do not wish to give evidence.  They wanted me to place certain matters on record.  Maybe this is the time to do that and I think a lot of it is common cause but they just wanted to underline that the deceased was an elderly woman of about - she was 83 years of age when she died.  It was at a time when the new democracy had been born.  The family wanted to stress this point that the deceased had enjoyed a healthy relationship with the black people, particularly of that area and that was - testimony of that was the fact that the two domestic workers had been with her in access of 20 years.  In fact Emily Mokoena had been in her service for an excess of 20 years and the other lady who survived the attack is still with them and has been in their employ for 27 years, that she did not harbour any racial hatred towards the black people of this country and that she did not pose a threat to anyone at all and they express a deep sadness that this matter has been politicised in the way that the applicant has seen fit and their belief is that this was a needless and senseless killing in the course of a robbery that went wrong and they wished to say to the Committee and ask the Committee to obviously - and I indicated to them that I would be arguing the facts on their behalf.  Thank you Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Prior, we'll note their concerns.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Madam Chairperson and Honourable Members of the Committee, can I just before I may throw some light, maybe I have my dates wrong.  When was the cut off date for submission of application for the offences?

CHAIRPERSON: I think for both submissions and offences, one is 10th May 1994 and the other one is 10th May 1997.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Thank you Madam Chairperson.  Madam Chairperson, I don't want to waste the time of this Committee.

CHAIRPERSON: We are greatly indebted to you for making sure that you don't do that.

UNKNOWN: Madam Chairperson, mine is to say to this Committee that enough evidence has been placed before this Committee.  I need not add anything more.  This Committee will be able to reach a fair and a just decision on this matter with the evidence before it.  Thank you Members of the Committee.
NO FURTHER ARGUMENT BY MR MBANDAZAYO

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbandazayo.  Mr Prior?

UNKNOWN: Thank you Madam Chair.  Madam Chair, I think even the applicant must have a sense that he has fallen far short of adeucing evidence to satisfy this Committee that he should be granted amnesty for these particular acts.
	If I may just highlight three areas.  His affiliation to the PAC, I submit with respect has not been supported by the evidence that he gave.  It is clear that the acts occurred after the election which was a momentous occasion of international renown and for the applicant to simply say that well, he was a new recruit and he didn't quite understand the aims and objectives of the PAC as it stood for at that stage, I submit cannot be accepted as being true.  Even if he was a supporter of the PAC and given his evidence that his family was a long line of PAC supporters, he would have been aware and as I submit, a lot of the black youth at that time were politically aware of what their various political parties were driving at.  The fact that he doesn't participate in the election, the fact that he is oblivious to the aims and the objectives of the PAC, I submit must raise a very serious question as to his truthfulness on this aspect.
	I submit his amnesty application just then doesn't make sense because he says he committed these acts to further the aims of the PAC as stated in his amnesty application and frankly, Madam Chair, his evidence is poles apart and one just has difficulty trying to reconcile his evidence today that he was a new recruit and wasn't aware and what is stated in his amnesty application.
	We also have his concessions that he could not other than concede that he'd lied during his trial at least three occasions, obviously to try and extricate himself from the position that he was in.  I think that at the end of the day we haven't had full disclosure.  In fact I think a serious question is raised whether this in fact was a political matter and I would urge this Committee, I would argue that it hasn't been proven, it hasn't been established at least on a balance of probabilities that this was a political act or act associated with a political objective.  Thank you Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Prior.  We will adjourn now until tomorrow morning.  Our judgement in respect of this application will be reserved.  One will be delivered in due course, hopefully before the end of this week Mr Mbandazayo.  Our office through Mr Prior will make sure that you get a copy of our decision.  Thank you very much Mr Prior and Mr Mbandazayo.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS