Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-24

MR PRINSLOO: Chairperson the next applicant is number 8, Mr J Venter.  He is sitting in the witness seat.

MR BRACHER: Well I will be here whenever there are other witnesses relevant to the case.

CHAIRPERSON: As you know that the representatives of the applicants plan to consult this afternoon with possible witnesses and they will only be in a position to indicate who and how many they are calling I suppose tomorrow morning. So if you can contact the evidence leader perhaps.

MR BRACHER: I will do that. I have got a cell phone number.

CHAIRPERSON: Then you would be in the know.

MR BRACHER: I will excuse myself if you don't mind. Mr Sinjatsi will be here just now to sit in. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: You are excused.
MR BRACHER EXCUSED

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Venter, do you have any objection to taking the oath?

UNKNOWN: (sworn states)

MR PRINSLOO: The application of the applicant appears page 138 up to 151 and the B section, 214 to 223. May I continue?

CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible)

MR PRINSLOO: 214 to 223. Thank you.
	Mr Venter, you together with your co-applicants were prosecuted in the High Court in the Witwatersrand and Judge Flemming found you guilty on what is now generally known as the pipe bomb incidents in the Randfontein area as well as the Pretoria pipe bomb attacks.

MR PRINSLOO: From that there were charges of murder in Pretoria and also attempts to murder for the Western area, Randfontein and also incidents of deliberate damage of property, do you confirm that?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And also for the possession of explosives?

UNKNOWN: That is correct Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: And on these charges you were sentenced for 21 years.

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And at the moment you are out on bail.

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And you are applying for amnesty on all those charges as well as the murder charges in Pretoria as well as explosives and the damage of property, is that correct?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter, you were involved with the Ystergarde of AWB, is that correct?  You were a member of that?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you have any rank?

UNKNOWN: I had the rank of captain.

MR PRINSLOO: And how long were you in the service of the AWB?

UNKNOWN: For the AWB as such, beginning of the '80's I joined the AWB and I got actively involved in 1988 and in 1990 I joined the Garde.

MR PRINSLOO: And what was your relationship with the leader of the AWB?

UNKNOWN: For a time I worked at Ventersdorp as the bodyguard of the leader and also I worked as a Garde at the head office.

MR PRINSLOO: Sorry, Mr Venter, while you were a member of the AWB did you attend specific meetings if you get close to the events which happened in 1993, 1994?

UNKNOWN: Yes Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: And these meetings you attended were they addressed by the leader, Mr Eugene Terreblanche, amongst others?

UNKNOWN: Yes, amongst others the leader himself and also at other meetings which we attended there was Ferdie Hartzenberg and Constand Viljoen as well, as well as the rest of the right-wing groups.

MR PRINSLOO: Were these open meetings or were some of them closed meetings? What was the position?

UNKNOWN: Some of the meetings were open meetings in public and I would say ninety percent of the meetings which I attended with the leader were closed meetings at predetermined places, for example restaurants.

MR PRINSLOO: Now some of these closed meetings that you attended, you already mentioned Constand Viljoen's name as well as that of Ferdie Hartzenberg, was there some of the Generals of staff present?

UNKNOWN: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And what was the message in these meetings, shortly?

UNKNOWN: Shortly it basically came down to the fact that we had to prepare ourselves for the fight that was lying ahead or the war as they called it. We must prepare ourselves for the struggle as we are going to fight for our Volkstaat.  We must gather ammunition and weapons and at each meeting this was more and more emphasised.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you mean Volkstaat?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I meant Volkstaat.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter did you also look at news reports?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter, you are also aware of a specific broadcast with regards to a video which can be shown to the Committee, do you know about that?

UNKNOWN: Yes.  It is a point that can be emphasised or it can be proven, the fact that the leader made certain utterances.

MR PRINSLOO: And the incident you are referring to now what is that concerned with?

UNKNOWN: Mr Terreblanche, I do not know if it is a punishment but he has got a way of whipping the people and it was very expressive and strongly emphasised that we are going to fight and we are going to pull it off.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Chairperson we would like to show you a video. It is quite short. This is what has been conveyed to me and we would like to show you. If it hasn't been done yet we can go onto something else until it is ready.  Apparently there is a technical problem at this stage Chairperson, so we will do it shortly.  We are going onto another aspect.
	Mr Venter were there any instructions with regard to preparations given or not?

UNKNOWN: Yes, there were instructions with preparations, we had to get food, medical supplies, ammunition.  We had to get it all ready so if there is call-up instructions as they put it to us, that it would be ready for the war.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter if you look at page 6 of the typed, it is 147 of the records in front of you and paragraph 14 of the statement in front of you. Can you tell the Chairperson or the Committee what was the run-up to your involvement with Clifton Barnard who is also a co-accused in this matter?

UNKNOWN: Chairperson if I can I would just like to start by saying that I was called up from Lushof which is just outside of the Lichtenburg district, and after the call-up instruction on the Wednesday I went to Ventersdorp.  I arrived in Ventersdorp and Mr Clifton Barnard asked me on the Friday or he told me rather that I must accompany him the next morning on a mission.  We are going to pick up a person.
	I also worked with Clifton Barnard in head office where he was my direct senior under Mr Leon van der Merwe.  After Mr Barnard approached me and told me: "Look we have got a mission to fulfil", I accepted it coming from a senior instruction as I know him before at head office.

MR PRINSLOO: And where was this mission, where did you go with Mr Barnard?

UNKNOWN: He did not tell me what the destination was on the Friday night. The Saturday morning we got into the car and we arrived in Welkom.

MR PRINSLOO: Is that the Saturday?

UNKNOWN: That is the Saturday morning.

MR PRINSLOO: Who accompanied you?

UNKNOWN: Philip van Coller and together with Clifton Barnard in his vehicle was Koper Myburgh.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr van Coller was he also a member of the AWB?

UNKNOWN: Yes of the AWB and the Ystergarde.

ADV BOSMAN: Sorry Mr Prinsloo.  Can you just give us the date when you and Mr Barnard went to Welkom?

UNKNOWN: That is the Friday before the elections when I arrived at the Garde house in Ventersdorp, the Saturday before the elections we left.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Venter in your statement you say it is the Saturday. It is supposed to be the Friday when you saw Barnard and the Saturday morning you left?

UNKNOWN: That is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And then what happened when you arrived there?

UNKNOWN: We arrived in Welkom, there is a big parking lot at the circle at the Holiday Inn and Cliff Barnard there told me that I had to wait there in the vehicle they are quickly going to conclude their business.

MR PRINSLOO: You did not know what business he was referring to?

UNKNOWN: No Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: Well when was the business was concluded?