Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-05-13

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is so the blocks are an impediment for people coming into King George so they had to come in to the narrow angle so they were more closer to the western side but when I arrived at that corner they were already some distance down King George.

MR VAN WYK: Do you know on that morning, did you know that there were other security guards deployed on the parapet of Shell House?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did not, sir.

MR VAN WYK: You testified that you had the impression that these marchers were attacking, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: They were surging forward in a crouched manner, in an attack form, yes.

MR VAN WYK: So the inference you made of them attacking is that they were crouched and they were surging forward, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: And those are the only two reasons is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: Now would you certainly concede that there could be several reasons for these people crouching and surging forward, it is not necessarily that they attack, would you agree with that?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Sir, the way I saw it at that time is they were crouched, surging in an attack formation.

MR VAN WYK: Could you explain to us, what do you mean by an attacking formation, what is that?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Attacking is when a group of people crouch, holding spears and other weapons, coming towards you, that is an attack sir.

MR VAN WYK: Not running up straight but crouched forward, is that what you're saying?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: When people attack they don't walk up straight as gentlemen.

MR VAN WYK: Now when you refer to people, what people are you referring to?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: The marchers.

MR VAN WYK: Where else on that day did you see them attacking in a crouched surging position?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: On that day there's who marched fast but they weren't attacking at us.

MR VAN WYK: So this was the first opportunity where you saw the marchers crouched and surging forward is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: And those are the two grounds for you inferring that they are now attacking, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Well there is an added aspect.  They were not escorted unlike the other marchers, the other marchers who marched past Shell House that I saw, there were no police escorts or peace monitors.

MR VAN WYK: Now that you tell us that you saw whilst lying on the pavement with this heavy firing going around you, you observed that they were not escorted, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct because when I saw them they were coming as an attacking force.

MR VAN WYK: Now I want to submit to you that these people could have been crouching or surging forward - that's on your version - because they were shot at from the people on the parapet - can you exclude that?  They were trying to run away, they were fleeing from the corner, could that not be possible?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Sir, with due respect, I can only say what I saw.

MR TIPP: Chairperson, it's not clear to us whether that's a version that's been put forward on behalf of the objectors, or whether that's just some sort of speculation on behalf of my learned friend.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, he's left himself open in formulating that question because if they were crouching from a firearm it was being - they would be crouching and facing the opposite direction, moving away from the firearm.  According to this witnesses evidence, they were moving forward and crouching.  Now what interpretation one would place on that evidence will be determined once we hear all the evidence but perhaps if you'd like to clear that up you may do so.

MR VAN WYK: Mr Chairman, that is questions that I asked on his own version as to other possibilities and the inference that he wants to present to the Committee just not justify the only inference that they were being attacked.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you agreed that they were crouching as they were moving?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly somebody could have crouched if they were shot at, that cannot be disputed by me.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] on that?

MR VAN WYK: I cannot specifically as such respond to that.

CHAIRPERSON: Carry on.

MR VAN WYK: Thank you Mr Chairman.
	Did you, on that morning, did you receive any specific information in respect as to what was happening at the hostels?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: No.

MR VAN WYK: Do you know of any agreement between the ANC security guards not to disclose their colleagues names as to who fired shots at the corners of King George and Plein Streets or any place on that day?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I do not.

MR VAN WYK: Were you approached by any of the ANC leadership of senior personnel for an explanation as to what happened on that specific day and to obtain your version?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I gave a verbal report to Mr Quest Dlamini who was compiling what actually happened for the leadership but it was only to Mr Quest Dlamini.

MR VAN WYK: Did you decide to give your full co-operation to the ANC in this enquiry?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did so.

MR VAN WYK: Did you decide to give your full co-operation to the South African Police during their investigation?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Well Sir, you must understand that I came into the country from exile, I was - I did not totally trust the police because of the - in my own terms and I can justify it because we were under threat from the police and the state.

MR VAN WYK: Do I then understand your reply is that you decided not to fully co-operate with the police, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I decided to comply with all the requirements of the ANC and if it was with the police then I would have.

MR VAN WYK: Did you read in the papers that the police were investigating to try and ascertain who used firearms on that day?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did.

MR VAN WYK: You did not come forward and disclose that you used the firearm, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is correct.

MR VAN WYK: And up to the inquest you have never ever handed over your firearm to be ballistically tested, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: That is true.

MR VAN WYK: Returning to the corners of King George and Plein Streets, the shots you fired, were they fired only on instruction of Mr Kruser?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Once Mr Kruser gave the command repel, I fired three shots.

MR VAN WYK: Did you see any of the marchers turning around?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: I did not.

MR VAN WYK: By the time you - did you get up to return to the foyer of Shell House or did you leopard crawl back to the foyer?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: Once I was nudged aside, I flipped over in a military style and then walked back to the foyer of Shell House.

MR VAN WYK: Now the last picture that saw of these Zulus, after several shots had been fired, were they still approaching the corner or were they running backwards?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: In my recollection they were still approaching.

MR VAN WYK: So you never saw the marchers turning around and running backwards, is that correct?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: In my recollection, not.

MR VAN WYK: Could you give an estimation as to the distance how far these marchers were when you fired your shots at them?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: No, that area I walked quite a bit, there is a shop which is a shoemakers that cuts keys as well and opposite that shop was where the first line of the attack.

MR VAN WYK: Have you received any information that any deceased people or injured people were found at that place where you say you shot at them?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: No.

MR VAN WYK: Do you know that all the deceased we're talking of here were found at the corners of King George and De Villiers Streets?

MARAINSAMY SINGARAM: No sir, with due respect, people, once they were shot, they were all pulled back, that is why you'll find that everybody was at that corner.