Human Rights Violation Hearings — Mmabatho — 1996-07-08

UNKNOWN: Yes, I can explain regarding that.  It was on the 18th of June 1990, when I got home that day.  My mom told me that the police were here at night, looking for you.  MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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And I left immediately for the police station to hear what they wanted from me.
 When I got to the police station they told me that Captain Brand was the one looking for me.  And they took me in a car to the office of the CID, where I found Gabriel and they also took me into the cell.  They closed and locked me up.  
 I just heard some noise and I could tell that something was happening.  Someone's been tortured.
 And they appear, silently, with Gabriel, the police and they ask Gabriel, do you know this one, meaning me.  Gabriel said, yes:   Was he present when they burnt that person from Battalion 32?   And he said, yes, he was present.
 And they asked what I heard what he said.  And I said, yes, I heard.    I said to them, I can't tell you anything.  You should have asked me, because I could have explained to you.
 And they asked me to explain.  I said to them I don't know anything about burning this person.  I wasn't present and I can tell you where I was on that day.  If you don't believe me, you could go and ask someone else like you did ask Gabriel.
 And he threatened me.  And I said, you can't threaten me in that way.  I was threatened in the past time and you can't do that to me again.  And they then locked me up again.
 At night, at about four, they took me and locked me in the cell.  At night they also came to fetch Gabriel and they left with Gabriel.  When Gabriel came back he had marks all over his body.  The marks of beatings.  You could tell the wounds were swollen.
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 When he was crying, I tried to console him, telling him that you have to be stronger than this.  Don't worry, just keep on telling them what you were telling them.  And I told him that I am from the magistrate to give a statement and I told everything in the statement. 
If you agreed with them, you would create problems for me.  You could have told them that I was ... that you were not present.  You will see them as time goes on. 
 They then came back again.   I stayed for about 48 hours in the cells and in those 48 hours they took him away for about three times and when he returned in the night you could see he was crying, he was swollen, he was bleeding from his nose and you could see that someone was washing him with cold water in the evening while it was cold.  Then they returned him to the cell to lock him up.
 They tried to find out where I  was and they released me the next morning and they said to me that when this Battalion 32 soldier returns from the hospital at Pretoria, they will come to fetch me for an identification parade.  
 We went to such a parade and they fetched me in the morning.  When we got to the identification parade, because I know what the behaviour of the South African policemen were, I knew what to tell them.  
 They like identifying people through their fingerprints.  The second thing is they like to influence the other policemen to look for Zero.  If he does anything, even if it could be a simple thing, you should call him in, assault him and the following day you should give him a fine that he was drunk.
 Then I realised that such things could get me into trouble. When we went to such a parade, they made us stand MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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together with other prisoners so that we could put our hands behind our backs.  And they knew that the other guy would 
identify my fingers.  And we agreed to what they said.  
 They asked us whether we would like our lawyer to be 
present.  I said, yes.  And he said, no it was not necessary for your lawyer to be present, because they wanted to finish this case quickly.  I said ok you can go on with your work.
On the third time when they came around ... There were the three of us who were given bail.  So they left us there - I said it is ok we will stand here.  When one guy was left behind and the other guy went away, I said to my friend Toy, get out of there because you can't trust these people.
 I took off the T-shirt I was wearing, I took a prisoner's T-shirt and wore it and went away and Toy was left standing there.   
 When this person came around he took Toy from where he was standing, because he was the second person from where the line was starting and I was about the ninth person in the line.  And then I went to the fourth place and the took Toy away and Toy made a statement.   While he had to come to me he didn't come to me, he went to the person who was standing in the place I was in before.  And then he said to me you'll make a plan for me, to arrest me and I will end up in jail or they would end up having killed me.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Did you meet Gabriel in the cell?

UNKNOWN: Yes, we actually met in the cell.

THOMAS MANTHATA: So you wouldn't know ...

UNKNOWN: No, I don't know much about his politics and how much he was involved so much in the politics.  But when
there were rallies he would attend.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I see here from the statement that you were
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seven locked in one cell.  Were you locked up because of the soldier's death.

UNKNOWN: No by that time we were four.  We found the others in.  They were three.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Didn't you ask him whether they afforded him the opportunity to see a doctor, because you could see he was ill.

UNKNOWN: No, I asked him about that.  And when I asked him it was already in the evening.  So I asked him to complain to them the following day that you wanted to see a doctor and they should make sure that every day in the morning, the captains when they came to take the complaints they must make sure that they have already sent him out of the prison.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The way you saw it, the injuries to Gabriel, were they are a result of assault.

UNKNOWN: Yes, I believe so, because by the time we were in the cells he was ok.  He never had any mental illness.

THOMAS MANTHATA: When you were attending the court case were you able to meet him?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I met him on the last day of the case.  That is when he was sentenced.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I would like to thank you.

DR RANDERA: Zero, thank you very much for coming today.  I just want to clarify this, are you Zero or Zoro?

UNKNOWN: Some people call me Zoro as in the case I was mentioned in, but my name is Zero.

DR RANDERA: Zero, you say in your statement there was
seven people in the cell at the Vryburg police station when you saw Gabriel.  Can you remember the names of any of the MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST
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other people?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I can remember the other names. The one I remember is Toy, his surname was Nonkonyane.  The second one was called Jomo, his surname was Sitatobo.  The third person was called Bonos, I don't know his surname.

DR RANDERA: During the 48 hours that you saw Gabriel, how many times was he taken away by the police and came back each time or was it just the one time that he was taken away and came back with the blood and marks on his body?

UNKNOWN: They took him away for about three times, I think.

DR RANDERA: And did Gabriel say anything to you as to what was happening to him?

UNKNOWN: Yes, he told me what happened to him, because I was the one who was treating him whilst he came back and I was the one trying to comfort him.

DR RANDERA: Can you please tell us what he said to you? Take your time.

UNKNOWN: Firstly, he said to me was at the dark booms. He was being tortured there.   He was put in a car boot.  People were having a barbecue and drinking and the other one when he got drunk, came and kicked him.