Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-11-16

MR VISSER: The next witness Mr Chairman, will be the witness Forster, who will give evidence.  I must say that I was toying with the idea of calling Mr Wasserman back at this stage, but perhaps it may be better to call Mr Forster and thereafter we will call Wasserman back Mr Chairman.
	He is Jakobus Adriaan Forster.  His application appears in bundle 2 at page 94 and following, up to page 110.  He is ready to take the oath Mr Chairman.

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Mr Forster, you are an applicant for amnesty in these cases and you are applying for amnesty in the case of Fila Portia Ndwandwe, is that correct?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Where were you born and where did you grow up?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: I was born in Roodepoort in the Transvaal in 1948, in February.  I attended primary school there up to standard 1 and I then went to Pietersburg where I did my primary and high school training, up to standard 7.
	From standard 8 and matriculated in the Queenstown in the Eastern Cape, where I then immediately joined the police.

MR VISSER: During your childhood, was there certain influences on you as in the case of Mr Botha?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Just to save time, you grew up in a conservative environment?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is true Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Where you did not or were not exposed to strong influences concerning the policy of separate development and then later apartheid, in that it was wrong?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR MALAN: Was it not apartheid first and then separate development?  It is not important though?

MR VISSER: I think one could argue about that, but I would not like to do that.  Mr Forster, you joined in July 1976, is that correct?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And you gave a short summary of your police career, in bundle 2?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR VISSER: You are now currently not a member of the police any more?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct yes.

MR VISSER: When did you retire?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: At the end of September last year, I retired.

MR VISSER: Because?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Because of medical reasons.

MR VISSER: Being?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: They call it major stress.

MR VISSER: Stress Major?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Stress Major and post traumatic stress.

MR VISSER: Yes.  Are you currently receiving treatment for your condition?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, I was hospitalised twice, I was in a clinic, Vista Clinic in Pretoria, from March up to May 1996 and there I received treatment specifically for this disorder.

MR VISSER: From January 1985 up to December 1991, you served in the Security Branch in Pietermaritzburg, is that correct?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And during that time, you went through the ranks of Major, Lieutenant and Lieutenant Colonel?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Maybe firstly the position that you were in in 1988 in Pietermaritzburg in the Security Branch, what was your rank then?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: At that stage Mr Chairperson, I was in charge of the ANC desk, concerning research of ANC/MK terrorists.  It was a very small unit at that stage and it had far less members than the other sections in Natal.

MR VISSER: We heard that there were three sections, Port Natal, Natal and Northern Natal?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: If you could compare your position with that of Colonel Taylor here in Durban, what would the comparison be?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: There was a lot of overlapping, not as much as in Port Natal, but concerning weapon stockpiling and especially acts of violence, grenade attacks, etc.

MR VISSER: In your career, did you have any contact or exposure to acts of terror where people were killed and or injured and property was damaged?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And did you have the same experiences as the other witnesses, that it left an impression on you and that this incited you to do everything in your ability to oppose this political struggle against the government of the day?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Do you confirm the contents of your statement that you submitted, and that is now in front of the Committee, is that correct?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And you are also asking for the Annexure, the statement of Van der Merwe and the Generals, as well as the evidence of Mr Vlok and Johan van der Merwe to be included?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Can we get directly to the question of the abduction and the elimination of Ms Ndwandwe.  The first question that I would like to ask you is why you became involved in this matter?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Mr Chairperson, at that stage the three sub-sections, Port Natal, Midlands and Northern Natal, they were busy combining or becoming one, and we worked closely together, and that is how I became involved or became more involved in the Port Natal Unit, as well as investigations that was led, because I regularly went to Port Natal concerning investigations of terrorism.

MR VISSER: How did you hear about this operation?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: I was called to Port Natal by at that stage Andy Taylor, and I then went there.

MR VISSER: And you then received certain information from him?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: And then the decision was made that you must go with?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct.

MR VISSER: How did you go to Swaziland?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: It was myself, at that stage Brigadier Steyn and Taylor, they went in their own vehicle, with the N2 in the direction of the border post.

MR VISSER: You can refer to the surnames, we will not add any extra value to that, Steyn and Taylor, you can refer to them like that.

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Thank you.

MR VISSER: You then went in the direction of the border post, ...(indistinct).

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: We then drove to the border post, Onverwacht to a house there.

MR VISSER: It was a police house?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: That is correct.

MR VISSER: At the border post?  There you left Steyn?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR VISSER: Did you then, yourself, go into Swaziland, what vehicle and with whom?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: It was with Botha and Taylor in Taylor's vehicle, we left the Onverwacht border post and then entered Swaziland.

MR VISSER: What happened there at Manzini?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: At Manzini, when we arrived there, there were two other vehicles involved in this operation.

MR VISSER: It was a kombi and a bakkie?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, that is correct.  We took our positions in close to the George's Hotel in Manzini, the bakkie already in place in front of the hotel.  We were behind the bakkie, but in full view.
	At the front of the bakkie was the kombi.

MR VISSER: Who was in the kombi?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: It was Wasserman and Du Preez.

MR VISSER: Who was in the bakkie?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: There were two informants in the bakkie.

MR VISSER: What time of the day was this?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Mr Chairperson, if I can remember correctly, it was approximately five o'clock, half past five, six o'clock.

MR VISSER: It was late in the afternoon.

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: Yes, if I remember correctly, we went through the border post at about two o'clock.

MR VISSER: What did you see there?

JAKOBUS ADRIAAN FORSTER: I saw that Ndwandwe got into the bakkie with the two informers.  She sat in between them and the bakkie moved on in the direction of Big Bend.

MR VISSER: What did you do then?