Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1997-07-14

MS INTHANGA: Mr Benzien, will you give us the names of the people who belonged to the observation team and the Anti-terrorist Unit that you say they attended that meeting?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Besides Constable Abels that was with me, I cannot remember the names of the observation team.  I think there was a Simon Pembi, now Senior Superintendent Pembi, but I may be wrong with this.	Lieutenant Liebenberg was there.  Warrant Officer Nel was there and in the backyard there was a member standing there, I didn't specifically say hallo to each one of them.  I explained to Lieutenant Liebenberg what I was going to do and he agreed with me and either he or somebody, one of the other people were going to post members at different strategic places while Abels and myself drove out of the police station.
	I think the spade was acquired at the police station to open drains and we picked up a type of cactus bush laying on the field, which we also threw on the back of the vehicle to make it look more authentic.

MS INTHANGA: Do you know the names of the people who were placed at the strategic places that you mentioned?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Excuse me?

MS INTHANGA: Do you know the names of the people who were places strategically in the vicinity of the house where Mr Kriel was killed?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: The only people that I am almost sure of, was on the other side of the train line, let me just look for the name of the road, I cannot pronounce it - Albermarle Road runs next to the train line at Athlone.
	Further up the road was the main Athlone road bridge, near the police station and I  understood that Sergeant Goosen, I think it was Sergeant Goosen and members were in a vehicle on the other side of the train line in the area called Crawford.
	When I say that the rest of the crew or Unit or helpers, I don't know if the observation team had withdrawn or who was placed where, but when I say in the proximity of the house, it is relatively far away.

MS INTHANGA: Do you remember exactly how many people were placed in those areas?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: No Sir.

MS INTHANGA: So far all the people that I have asked you about, you have only mentioned Sergeant Goosen, who were the other people next to the train line?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: It is only Goosen that comes to mind at this stage.  I did mention Lieutenant Liebenberg and Warrant Officer Nel, they normally operated together.

MS INTHANGA: All right.  And where was Lieutenant Liebenberg at the time you were at Mr Kriel's house?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I couldn't see where any of these people had been placed.  To my disgust and this is hearsay, I was informed that after the shooting incident, that when I radioed for help, it would appear that Lieutenant Liebenberg and Nel had gone into a fish and chips shop to buy lunch.

MS INTHANGA: I would like to know from you whether in regard to the Ashley Kriel matter, you have ever worked with Mr Van Braekel and in what capacity?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: No.

MS INTHANGA: Do you know if Mr Van Braekel worked on the Ashley Kriel matter?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I am not very sure, but if it may be of assistance, Mr Van Braekel worked the then shall I say, activists unit in the Bonteheuwel area.  I am sure Mr Van Braekel knew about Kriel.

MS INTHANGA: For how long were you assigned to the Ashley Kriel matter prior to the day of the 9th of July, 1987?  When did you receive assignment on that matter?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: A few days before the incident, intelligence was gathered that Mr Kriel was reputedly in Cape Town or at least in the general Cape, but staying presumably at an address in the proximity of Albermarle Road.

MS INTHANGA: And can you explain to the Committee as to how is the information from the intelligence conveyed  down to you?  How did you get hold of that information that Mr Kriel was residing in that house?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Lieutenant Liebenberg had acquired the intelligence and because the address could not be pin pointed, he had arranged with the Intelligence team to stake out that area and it was their task to try and identify which house he had been in.

MS INTHANGA: Did Mr Liebenberg have direct contact with the Intelligence, or did someone superior to him have contact with the Intelligence to get that information, according to your knowledge?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: The up and down move between him and the Intelligence Unit, I would think that the rank he had, he had to either do it through his Commander or through somebody on the Intelligence Unit.

MS INTHANGA: Can you paint a picture or give us information as to how the command structure ran in the Western Cape at that time?  Because as I believe, you were below Mr Liebenberg and would you give us information as to who was above Mr Liebenberg at that time?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I think at that stage it was still either Major or he could have been Lieutenant Smit at that stage.

JUDGE WILSON: Well, Lieutenant or Lieutenant Colonel?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Lieutenant Colonel, excuse me Sir.

MS INTHANGA: Would you agree with me when I say above Major Smit, he was a major at that time, would you agree with me when I say that above Major Smit was General Griebenauw, do you remember that?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: I know a General Griebenauw, but I am not sure if General Griebenauw was in Cape Town at that stage as the Commander of the Security Branch.

MS INTHANGA: Would you say Major Smit could have known about the investigations around Ashley Kriel at that time?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: It would be mere speculation, Ma'am.  I wouldn't know if Lieutenant Liebenberg was on a day to day basis passing the information through.

MS INTHANGA: Mr Benzien, I am still going to focus on the structures that operated against trained activists who were in the country at that time.  Would you be able to give us structures that were operating in the region, who you were cooperating with or working with in trying to identifying people?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Ma'am, with respect, could you repeat the question please?

MS INTHANGA: I would like to get the structures that were in operation at the time you were investigating Mr Ashley Kriel.  Who could have known about your investigations or whom were you working with at that time?

CHAIRPERSON: Don't we have that information already?

MS INTHANGA: No, Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: ... the names yourself?

MS INTHANGA: I am going to put it to you Mr Benzien, that in your interview, you mentioned that you at one time were involved in a meeting at Trevits.  Can you explain to the Committee what Trevits is?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: May I just bring the Committee into the right context here.  While at the Investigation Unit, the day I spoke to them, the word Trevits came up, but not at all in the context of the Ashley Kriel business.

MS INTHANGA: In our understanding of the Trevits operations, they were a counter-revolutionary structure, which specifically worked on, it was an anti-trained activists unit which helped identifying people and it would have information on all trained activists who were in the country and that information would be given to people who worked in the particular regions where this people could be found.
	In an interview you had with our Investigative Unit, you mentioned that you were at one time at the meeting of Trevits?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: That is correct.  The way I understood Trevits and if I can get the name correct, it think it is an Afrikaans for Anti-revolutionary Task Force Group and I may be wrong that they were also for in-country exercises.  The way I was made to understand it and I only attended two Trevits meetings ever.  It was for the exchange of information to target certain places or individuals outside the country.

SISI KHAMPEPE: When did you attend those two meetings at Trevits?

JEFFERY T BENZIEN: Excuse me Ma'am?

SISI KHAMPEPE: When did you attend the two meetings that you have referred to at Trevits?