Human Rights Violation Hearings — Welkom — 1996-10-10

WITNESS:   He cannot concentrate.  The teachers complain a lot about him.

UNKNOWN: That is very important to us because we know that trauma can disrupt people's life, and I can see the way you are feeling now that your life will never be the same again.  Although you are a very strong person there is no doubt.  The very fact that you are crying it doesn't mean that you are no strong, and the very fact that you have stress it doesn't mean that you are not strong.  But what we are saying to you, irrespective of your strength probably it might help if you seek help from some of our psychologists here.  Not because there is anything wrong with you, but because everybody who has been through trauma will have these sorts of problems.  Thank you very much.

UNKNOWN: (Inaudible) ... for the story you have told.  It would appear that you have gone through many things, this family.  We heard other stories which are not part of this.  Maybe we need to encourage you, because you have also mentioned other deaths.  The lady, Constance Bush, mentioned other things.  Maybe it will be better if you go to the statement-takers and put these other cases, because you are all traumatised in fact, all of you you are traumatised.  But at the present moment we are dealing with Allie.  That is why Professor Magwaza is asking about Allie's immediate family, Allie and the children, so that if there is a need for counselling they could be counselled by the psychologists.  There are support groups which have been arranged in this region.  But what I am saying is that maybe it will be better if the other members of the family who have been affected - otherwise there are some deaths which have been mentioned too - if they could also go as individuals to tell their stories and give the - and see the statement-takers so that you can also be attended to, because you are traumatised.  Constance is traumatised.  Philip Petrus is traumatised.  Again we don't blame you for that.  It's because of the kind of experience you have gone through.  So I am encouraging you that you need to go to the statement-takers and also put your own stories so that you can also be attended to.  Anyway, thank you very much, Allie.  We have noted all your requests.  We'll make some recommendations, and we will also investigate, pass this thing to the investigation unit so that this case must be investigated.  And we have also noted some of the people who can be contacted here so that the truth comes out.  And we also commend you for the support you are giving each other.  This is very commendable.  You saw that how Allie had to breakdown all the time, and the members of the family had to give her the support.  That is very good, we appreciate it.  Thank you very much.

MATSHELISO PAULINE RANTIE AND MKHULULEKILE PETROS MZOSANE: (Sworn, State)

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  The person who is going to lead you in this very long story is Mr Mdu Dlamini.  He is going to aid you in the process when you tell your story.  Thank you.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Good day, Ma Matsheliso.

WITNESS:   Good day, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: And Dada Mzosane.

WITNESS:   Good day, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: I will start with Mrs Rantie, and Mr Chairman, I would request that after her we don't ask any questions, because some of the questions that we would like to ask could be answered when Mr Mzosane gives his evidence.  It's for that reason that the two cases were brought together.  Mrs Rantie, can I start by confirming basic details like your residential?  According to your statement you live at 394 Mageta Street in Sasolville.

WITNESS:   That is correct, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: And you were born on the 8th of August 1939.

WITNESS:  That is correct, Sir.

MR DLAMINI: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   Yes, I am married.

MR DLAMINI: And where is the husband?

WITNESS:   He said he would be here.  I don't know whether he has arrived.

MR DLAMINI: Are you not staying together?

WITNESS:   We stay together.  We spent the night here in Welkom, and he said he would come this morning.

MR DLAMINI: Oh yes, I do understand.  He was going to come from Kroonstad this morning.

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DLAMINI: If Mr Rantie is around, if he wants to be with the family, with the Chairman's permission, he is free to do so.  He can come forward and they will organise a chair for him next to the family.

WITNESS:   I think he is not yet

MR DLAMINI: here, because he mentioned that he would request to come and sit here.

MR DLAMINI: Thank you.  Is he employed?

WITNESS:   He is not working.

MR DLAMINI: I see.  How many children do you have?

WITNESS:   I have four children.  Two are married, and I am left with two at home.

MR DLAMINI: The two who are staying with you, how old are they?

WITNESS:   The first-born was born in 1963, and the other one I can't remember the date.  I think it was - I think the second one was born in 1969.  These are the two that are staying with me at home.

MR DLAMINI: What are they doing?  Are they employed, are they still at school?

WITNESS:   The one that was born in 1969 is a teacher, and the one that was born in 1963 is also a teacher, but doesn't have a post at all.

MR DLAMINI: Well, we congratulate you for having been able to bring up your children and give them security for the future.  You have come to tell us a story, a sad story indeed, about your son, Solomon, as well as your nephew, Tsiyetsi.  How old was Solomon when he was killed?

WITNESS:   He was 17 years old.

MR DLAMINI: Was he still at school?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: What class was he doing?

WITNESS:   He was doing standard seven.

MR DLAMINI: And Tsiyetsi, how old was he?

WITNESS:   Tsiyetsi was born in 1958.  At the time of his death I do not know how old he was.

MR DLAMINI: The year is sufficient.  And where are Tsiyetsi's - where is his family, Tsiyetsi's family?

WITNESS:   We reside in the same street.  All of us are at Sasolville.

MR DLAMINI: And on behalf of the Commission we would ask you to convey our support and regards to Tsiyetsi's family as well.  Mama, could you please tell us the incident that took place on the 11th of October 1990?

WITNESS:   It was in  the morning.  It was at about 9 o'clock.  Solomon was at school and he came back.  I am not sure - it was about eight or 7 o'clock.  I was hanging the napkins on the line because one of my daughters was just from the hospital, and he said to me, "Mum, I am very scared, and I am here to tell my brother."  His brother was still at home sleeping.  And he said, "I am here to tell the brother that the Three Millions are on their way, driven by the policemen."  And I said to him, "Did you see any policemen?"  He said, "Yes, I identified Mr Serobe."  And he gave me his books and he gave me his examination number, and I said to him, "Get into the house.  Wake your brother."  He went into the house, he woke up his brother, and they asked me where to go - oh my Lord.

MR DLAMINI: As the Chairman of the Commission has been saying that people should take it easy.  It's a very painful thing, and some of you thought they had forgotten, but the Government, particularly the State President, decided to give you people an opportunity to relate and share with the people of South Africa.  So take it easy, Mama.  We do understand.