Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-19

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: When I came back home I could feel still that the bruises that I had were still hurting me.  The person who tried to make me survive and the reason why I am still alive today was that doctor. He is the one who tried to make me go to the hospital.  But I still have a problem with the operation that I had on the side of my body and here on my head.  Dr Benjamin tried to give me a referral letter to go to the hospital. That is where I went through the operations.  I said to them even though you are making these operations on me, please try and take care, I don't want - I want to wake up after the operations.  So they said to me we have to give you a general anaesthetic.   I said no, can't you do a local anaesthetic, just like when you go to a dentist.  Well, they did inject me and they operated on me.  I kept on going back to the doctor, according to Dr Betja. Even now as I am telling you, I have a certain big debt that I didn't pay Dr Betja's debt.

MS MAYA: Do yu have any wish that you would like the Commission to help you out with?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Because my health has deteriorated I would like that the Government that we fought for, can please try and give us reparation.  Because now these boers, I know that it is difficult for the boers now, but I don't have grudges against them. When I look at them I even feel sorry for
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them, as if they are now, as if they are orphans. But it is all right, we can still say with these boers, even though they have killed a lot of our people. As I am telling you now, one of my brothers died in Sasolburg, he was also killed by these boers. I am the only one left at home.

MS MAYA: Thank you, Sir.  I am now going to hand you over to the Commissioner, so that if my colleagues have any questions they have the opportunity to ask you.

CHAIRPERSON: Are there any questions?

MEMBER OF PANEL: Sir, I have a couple of questions for you.  You said in your statement you were three men and four women. Do you know the names of these people?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I only know one and that is Dhlamini, the one I used to walk around with.  I don't know whether it was Jackson, but I know that he was from Soweto.  When we came back he got off in Gauteng at the Park Station. We left the others at a spot where we parted. I don't know how they came back, I think they came back on foot.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Do you know their names?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: No, I don't know their names.

MEMBER OF PANEL: How long did you stay with them?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I didn't stay long with Dhlamini. I stayed alone for a long time.  I was regarded as a murderer.

MEMBER OF PANEL: While you were kept in Pollsmoor, were there any other people that you were arrested with or were you alone?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: We were many and there were the other three that were put in the other cell, but now I was alone in this cell.  They were under the impression that I was the one who was influencing the others, inciting violence.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Were there any other people who can bear
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evidence of your arrest in Pollsmoor?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, there was another man although I wouldn't even know where he was taken from Pollsmoor. There were also others, even though I won't be able to tell their names. It is a long time now.

MEMBER OF PANEL: At the time of your arrest, you said you were only arrested because you were a member of a political organisation?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, that's correct.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Were you a member?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, I did tell them that I was a member of the ANC.  And I told them that you have arrested Mandela for no reason.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Were you in Cape Town at the time?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, I was in Cape Town.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Were there other people that were members of the ANC at the time, who are still alive, who can give evidence of this?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I can still remember some young men who when I was coming from Cape Town, I realised that they had already left for Lusaka.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Thank you, Sir, very much.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Mr Phulula, can I ask you something.  When you escaped from where you were, did you say it was Tzaneen?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, it was Tzaneen.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you ever tell anyone about this?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: No, I didn't tell anyone, I only told my father. I took my father aside into the kraal and then I told him the story.  Because at this time now, the men in government was Kazier Mantanzima. I said to my father, father this is how things were, I am from such-and-such a
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place. I said my father, please don't cry. So then he stopped. He said don't say this any more, because you will be arrested, you will be arrested again if you say this to anyone.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Is there anyone except your father who you told the story to?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: No, there is no one at all.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Where is your father right now?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: My father passed on.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Did you ever hear anything, Mr Phulula, maybe over the radio, or even somebody who saw something in the newspapers about the story of your arrest in Tzaneen? Was there anyone else who told the story?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: Yes, I heard a little about this.  As I am telling you this, there are other people now who are coming out.  Because it is now evident that I was not alone.  Well, now I am tell you that there are other people who are coming out now, who are telling the story.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Who are these people?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: These are sons to those people who I was with.  They said the same thing you went through was the same thing that my father went through.

MEMBER OF PANEL: Could you please elaborate, Mr Phulula?  Who are these young men you are talking about, this torture?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: It is Mr Mandosini from the municipality. When I talked to him one day he said to me his grandfather was also in Tzaneen, but apparently he was poisoned, so he didn't live for long.  But then when he came home then he died.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Gobodo?

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Mr Phulula, I am going to ask about
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the contractor.  What was the name of the contractor that you worked for in Tzaneen?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: It was called Roberts.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: What did you do there, Sir?

BOKVELA THOMAS PHULULA: I was pushing a wheelbarrow.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Phulula, for coming to the Commission.  We hope that you have taken your oath seriously, when you were giving your statement here.  We hope that what you are telling us today is the truth.  Like we have said before, we are going to investigate. We have said even the same thing to the others before you.  But we are going to try and we are going to try by all means, but it is going to be very difficult when everybody who can bear evidence of what you are telling us, is now all dead.
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