Human Rights Violation Hearings — Venda — 1996-10-03

MR LYSTER: Good morning Ms Neswiswi, I apologise, Neswiswi.  We welcome you here today.  Can you hear me through the earphones, can you understand me?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, I can hear you.

MR LYSTER: Can you stand to take the oath please.
NESWISWI E. SHONISANI: (sworn states)

MR LYSTER: Ms Neswiswi, you have come here today from the Maconde area and you have come to tell the Commission about the experiences of your brother, Jonah Mbengeni Ravele, is that correct?  Is that right?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, it is true.

MR LYSTER: Just to confirm something briefly about you and your family.  You are a married women, you have six children and you are from the Maconde area, is that right?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, it is true.

MR LYSTER: Are you working at this time?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: No, I am not working.

MR LYSTER: Is he still alive and if he is, is he working?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, he is around and he is not working.

MR LYSTER: Now, you've come to tell us about your brother, is that right?  What are your brother's full names?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Jonah Mbengeni Ravele.

MR LYSTER: Jonah Mbengeni Ravele?  Where is he today?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: He is working, he is right in Pretoria.
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MR LYSTER: Oh, you are telling his story on his behalf.  Now, if you could just tell us the story from, I think it was approximately 1980 when he was first detained by the police.  Could you tell us the story from there?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, I can.  In 1980 December, my brother was taken by the CID car and then they came into our home at our home there.
 They found him, he was present.  They took him, they go with him and then he went back.  The CID goes and he returned back.
 After a short time, they returned back and then they came back home and then they took my brother and go with him.  When they have gone with him, they come back again and then they told us that they have arrested him.
 It is then that they were saying that he was in possession of illegal firearms.  It is then that they arrested him and then it is true, he is having it and then he showed them the gun.
 It is then that they took him and he was tortured.  They used to tie him by chains.  One day he was handcuffed.  One day when he was coming back home, he used to come back wearing something which you cannot see his face.
 When coming back home, trying to see what they were doing with him, even at his home, they did not allow us and chased us like dogs and saying they don't want to see anybody here.
 And he was forced to have other guns, but in fact he was not having other guns.   They used to dig his -  he was forced to dig his house, digging his house and he was kicked and he was hurt.
 They never allowed us to go near him.  Go with him one 
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day, one day they took him to the mountain and he was forced to admit false charges because he was feeling the pain.
 It is then that he happened to admit something which he did not know and truly, he knew nothing, but he just admitted because he was feeling the pains.
 In 1980 here in the police station he was beaten.  He once told me that the person who used to beat him, is Mr Ramoswana and a Mr Ramaliqela.
 He was beaten.  In 1980, at eight o'clock they used to go and beat him.  From there, they came back home again.
 There were many with many vans and then they surrounded the whole house.  When we tried to go near them, we were not allowed and he was forced to dig the house knowing nothing.
 It is then that when his case was opened and I was not knowing what to do, then I tried to find a lawyer for him.  We were told that if we find a lawyer, we are all going to be arrested.
 It is then that a lawyer was found and then the lawyers were there and they were treating the case on his behalf.  Then that was how it ended.  From then we were called again by the very same CID's.  They sent us to some other offices where there are some CID's.  
 There was a big "trommel", tramped in with, there were a lot of old jackets, big ones.  They wanted us to believe and say we had to confirm that it belonged to my brother.  And we said, we never knew anything.
 The CID took the very same "trommel" and dug a whole in the garden so that the family members will say it belonged to them.
 He suffered a great deal out of what they did to him.  He is now not present.  On working, he was complaining of 
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pains all over the body, they way they kicked him.
 He suffered a great deal.  Again we thank God that we will have discovered that they will take him to prison and could be acquitted.
 The policemen of that time were very cruel.  Subsequently he was charged for five years and then he stayed five years in prison.  After that period expired, then he came back.

MR LYSTER: Ms Neswiswi, when you say the CID, where were they from?  Where were those police from?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: They came from Sebatsa police station.

MR LYSTER: You said Ramoswana and ...?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Ramoswana is the one who did malicious damage to my brother.  Ramaliqela as well.

MR LYSTER: Now you said he spent five years in jail.  What was he charged with, do you remember?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: For illegally possessing the firearm.

MR LYSTER: ... in your statement that he was brutally beaten and interrogated severely.  Did he tell you in what manner he was beaten?  Did he tell you the details as to how they assaulted him, whether they tortured him.   Can you give us some details of that?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Indeed.  I did explain that they really tortured him.  They used to beat him, taking him to the mountain where they would tie  him so that he shall produce other evidence.

MR LYSTER: What you are telling us is information which your brother has told you, is your brother able to confirm this?  Has he made a statement at any stage to the Truth Commission and if not, would we be able to contact him in Pretoria and to get him to confirm what you have said?
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NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, you can do so.  It is true.

MR LYSTER: Is he working there?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes, indeed.  I don't have a physical address, but the wife knows.

MR LYSTER: You don't?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: No.

MR LYSTER: You can give that information to the briefers or we can get it from you.  And you said that he was as a result of this detention, assaults, you said that he was like a useless person today.  How has it affected him?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: He is just, you know, in cloudy days, he feels terrible pains because after he suffered, the police took him to the own respective hospital.

MR LYSTER: You said he was like a useless person.  How has his behaviour or his life been affected, do you know?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: He is not like before.  Because before, initially, he is damaged now.

MR LYSTER: Sorry, Mrs Neswiswi, do you - you said that he was picked up because he was suspected of having an unlicensed or unlawful weapon and in fact they did find one.  What - was he a member of any organisation at the time, do you remember?  Was he working at that stage in 1980, was he schooling, what was he doing?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: He was working.

MR LYSTER: In this area?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Yes,  (indistinct)

MR LYSTER: Any organisation that you remember?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: Not that I know of.

MR LYSTER: I don't have any further questions at this time.   I'll hand back to Mr Ally now, thank you.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.  Tom?
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THOMAS MANTHATA: Elizabeth, you maintain that he used to assist the MK cadres, do you perhaps remember the name of just one of those people he assisted?

NESWISWI E SHONISANI: I don't remember vividly.