Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-12

MNCEDI MAGUGA: Before I did that I must tell you about what hurts me the most.  Before I went into exile my friend Nonkilesile Bovane, she asked if we could meet in Stutterheim.  She assured me and said that I could leave with her car.  Well, I said to her that I would go to Port Elizabeth to talk with my family and tell them what was happening.  She then gave me permission to use her car to go to Port Elizabeth.  I then said that it was not wise for me to use this car, because people already knew it, especially the Government.  She then begged me to use it.  I said, yes, but I knew I was not going to use it.  I got to Port Elizabeth.  I was there just for the weekend.  On the Monday I heard that there is a lady that had been shot in Ndakana.  I did not know who it was.  I thought that I should quickly go back.  Fortunately, there is a youth that I had taken to BPC churches, because the Sandile people would beat this, these youths up.  They would beat them up and put them in bath tubs.
 Sandile was sent by Brigadier Gqozo.  I met this youth in town ... they advised me not to go back home, because Mpondo Sandile has been cursing.

MS MAYA: Who is it that was shot?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: It, it was my friend.

MS MAYA: Are you talking about the lady, the Bovane lady?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: Yes.  These are some of the things that really hurt me, because this was the person who was going to help me through life.  This is one of my major grief.  There were rumours that before she was shot she had been asked where Mncedi was.

MS MAYA: Is this the time you went into exile?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: Yes, Mr Chairperson, I could not go back.  I could not even go to the funeral.

MS MAYA: So you went back home in 1995 when the villagers went and fetched you?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: Yes, they said that as I had a contribution in the struggle for liberation, now that the country was liberated I could go back home.

MS MAYA: Was there a court case in Frankfurt?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: No, until today I still do not know who burnt my house down.

MS MAYA: What requests do you have to the Commission, Mr Maguga?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: Even though the father of the deceased came to the Truth Commission I would like to know who it is that shot her and why she was shot.  I personally would like to know, as well, why it is that my house was burnt down.  Who is it that burnt down my taxis.  I also request the Truth Commission and the Government to give me some form of compensation even if it is one taxi, because after all this I realised that my health had deteriorated.  I cannot work.  Even if you look at me, Mr Chairperson, you will realise that I cannot be employed.

MS MAYA: What do you want to see happening to the perpetrators?

MNCEDI MAGUGA: I thank, I am grateful that the Truth Commission is operating.  It is this Commission that will heal our wounds especially the people that have been hurt.  The Truth Commission, Mr Chairperson, I request that the perpetrators come forward.  People must not be scared to come forward and tell the truth.  People must not be deceptive.  Just because people were not arrested at the time of the incident does not mean that they cannot come forward to the Truth Commission and divulge the truth.  I would like the Sandile family to come forward as well, because they kept the perpetrators in their home.  I think peoples' hearts are not totally healed in our village.  This could lead to violence, because people are bottling up wounds that have been unattended.  I want to know who killed my friend and why.  I want to know why my house was burnt down and why.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Maguga.  Mr Zokoza please.  Mr Maki Zokoza, your story is also concerning the ADM as you were also a member of ANC, SANCO alliance in Bhele.
 I would like you, briefly, to tell us about what happened to you especially on the first of June 1992.

MAKI ZOKOZA: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Firstly, I would like to greet you as we are here today, to the Commission.  I would like to start in 1990 and tell you about the story, the Bhele story, in Cikizini.  On the day when Brigadier Gqozo said that he did not want the chiefs and the headmen.  As the people from the Bhele we said that we wanted people to be elected as Chairpersons.  We then elected these people.  We elected Mr Tamsane Selman.  I was the Treasurer, at the time, of SANCO which was the Resident's Association there.
 One particular day it was felt that in 1992 the Chairperson has to be changed, Mr Selman, a new executive committee was elected.  I was then elected as the Chairperson.  I think it was on the 13th of June, if I am not mistaken.  While we were in a meeting, as the Committee, trying to discuss what we are going to do as the newly elected people, the police came from Tamacha.  They asked us why are we there.  We then told them that we are the executive committee of the Resident's Association.  One police said to me, Mr Zokoza, this organisation was banned.  He said that the organisation I am leading was banned.  I asked him where.  He said in Bisho in July.  He did not give me an exact date.  I said that I did not know what you are talking about, it is the first time I heard about this.

MS MAYA: Was this happening after the organisations were unbanned?

MAKI ZOKOZA: Yes.

MS MAYA: This police said that they were again banned?

MAKI ZOKOZA: Yes.  I said to him this we did not hear as the residents of the Bhele.  It was the first time we heard about this, that the Resident's Association was banned.  This police said that on a Monday we were to appear in Tamacha Police Station.  Briefly, it was five of us.  We went to the police station, two woman and three men.  When we arrived there, there were men from Bhele who were already there.  The Station Commander, who was Mr Solilo, said that we are trying to rule Bhele township.  He said that there was a headman in that township, we have to obey his rules.  He said that we were no longer allowed to have meetings.  We told him that this surprises us, because you are telling us about a headman in the police station.  You are a police and we were not aware that the headman was elected by the police, but as we are the community, the residents from the Bhele, we are not aware of this.  This man said that we were no longer allowed to have meetings in Bhele.
 We said that we were not going to argue with you, but we have a question to you, that as I am a member of SANCO, I am also a member of ANC, because, according to my knowledge, the ANC formed SANCO.  We then requested, we then asked whether we can have ANC meetings, but we are not going to follow the headman.  This man said that you can have ANC meetings in Bhele.  We thanked him for allowing us to have ANC meetings, but we were not aware that SANCO was banned, but we will ask to our leaders.

MS MAYA: Mr Zokoza, when were you taken to the headman by the Ciskei Defence Force members?