Special Hearings — Faith Community Hearings — 1997-11-17

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, my dear friend. Will you please just switch   off? Thank you. I ask us to observe a moment of silence. 
God Bless Africa. Guard her children, guide her leaders and give her peace.   Amen. Thank you very much. I am so glad that you are our friend. That was a   very moving testimony and we give thanks to God for you and for the tremendous   contribution that you have made in the leadership that you have given to your   community in the dark days and in the not so dark days. I am glad that we have   been able to be together in both those periods. Khoza Mgojo?
REV.

KHOZA MGOJO: Thank you Sir. I don't know what to ask from you, because I have   seen you in the journeys travelling together. I think you people in the Jewish   community, you may under estimate yourself. You don't know that you have the   resources, biblical resources, as you have quoted the Talmut, and a lot in the   Rabbinic Literature. There's a lot in the Jewish ambiguity, some historians   like Josephus, where you get these types of things that you have mentioned here,   which do help and sustain your community, based on the religious principles   and moral imperatives and humanitarian motivations. I think they are very clear   in the history of the Jewish people and one could detail that there is a person   speaking from the history of suffering dehumanisation. I am pleased that you   did mention that you should have spoken, because by virtue of your community   if you read your history, you have been speaking out, starting from the prophets   like Amos and others, who were confronted with difficult situations, similar   to these ones in their own time, and they did speak out.
I was to commend you for that and your people. I am pleased that you have studied   the way which is very pragmatic, in the form of this "Tukun". It is   very exciting, but you have been quoting many places, things happening here   in the Transvaal in the Reef, and South Africa doesn't end there. Is there any   way you can decentralise some of these projects, so that they touch other places?

UNKNOWN: Very good question brother. It is in fact decentralised.   I am sorry I gave for my examples, I was concentrating heavily on Johannesburg   and Cape Town. It so happens that the Durban Jewish community is also very,   very active. On their ...[inaudible] programme the last group, a lot of them   came from Bloemfontein, and it's not true, it gives the wrong impression. There   is Jewish demographic reason for it we used to have very many communities out   in the country, and we don't for some reason or another, most Jewish people   like to live in the city. But we do have to, we are trying with the agricultural   projects. We actually are trying to reach out. And it is a national, not a localised   organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: He is very pleased that you have something in Kwa Zulu Natal!   Any questions. Bongani Finca?
REV.

BONGANI FINCA: I don't know whether you followed the proceedings of the hearings   in Johannesburg last week when the commission was interacting with business,   and a proposal was made by Professor Terblanche on how to deal with the fact   that apartheid has left us a legacy of a minority of people who live in luxury   and a vast majority of people who subsist from day to day. I don't know whether   you can perhaps comment on how the Jewish religious community would react to   the proposal that was made by Professor Terblanche?

UNKNOWN: That's a very pertinent and important question. Clearly,   equalisation is a very, very important issue to have in our country. We have   topped the league for the last five years for the difference between the "haves"   and the "have nots". The biggest chasm in the world is here in South   Africa, not is Asia, not in South America. We have been top of the league. The   United Nations gives and the G7 group giveswe are top of the league. And   clearly there is a responsibility. I am not an economist, I am only a poor preacher,   but I am quite sure, and I have already heard favourable comment over the weekend   from some Jewish businessmen (I was at a reception on Sunday) and they said   it would be only fair and proper if there was a wealth tax in order to redistribute.   There were one or two fears mentioned that because - from the point of view   of earners and businesses we are the most highly taxed country in the world,   in real terms. And there was a feeling that it may prove, God forbid, the opposite.   There may be a disincentive. But I personally have always said that - I noticed   it in Johannesburg where so many white houses have swimming pools and there   is not one swimming pool in Alexandria Township. Not one public swimming pool   in Alexandria Township. And we can't have this. It is quite utterly obscene   and immoral. And I personally will put my weight behind any such suggestions.   Whether my voice will be persuasive enough, I'm not sure. But I really feel   that the religious communities have to endorse a practical programme for redistribution.

CHAIRPERSON: Piet Meiring?
PROF.

P MEIRING: Thank you Rabbi for your submission, especially the last paragraphs   on the future, the contributions made by the Jewish community struck me.
I want to ask you a question, I raised it also with the Anglican Church yesterday.   Is it your experience that by and large your congregants, the Jewish people   going to Synagogue have difficulty in really owning the TRC process? Are they   denying, are they at war with the results of the TRC? Or do you succeed in helping   them to really own the process? What can we do to help the by and large the   white community to say, but this in spite of how painful the disclosures are,   this is our process?