Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-03-23

MR MBANDAZAYO IN REPLY: Just two aspects, Chairperson.  The first one will be the evidence in the Court of law.  Chairperson, my comment will be only that we know all of us, when we go to the Court of law everybody wants to be acquitted,
 he uses any evidence in a Court of law in order to be acquitted.  That is why the Committee does not make much emphasis on what has been said in Court, because everybody, people always come up with a bad denial that they know anything about the offence, yet they know about it.  So that is my comment I wanted to make regarding the question of what happened in a Court of law, everybody wants to be acquitted, he would say anything.
	The second one, Chairperson, will be the one raised by Mr Prior about Thandukolo, handing over of the money.  Inasmuch as I have considered the question of Thandukolo, that there are many possibilities, it raises many questions, but I think they gave evidence that they have to hand it over in a proper way after they have arrived, because the money, because even if the money was there - in any event they have denied it, even if the money was there they have to count the money, they did not know it.  So they have to make a report after that, that how much money was handed over to him.  So definitely the probabilities are that the operation was not yet over because they have not yet arrived at their destination where they can hand over everything, if the money was there.  Which of course the police indicate that the money was found in their possession, which of course they deny.  Thank you, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR BOTMA: Mr Chairman, if I can just be of assistance to the Committee and refer the Committee to page 1202 of the record.  On a question
"Is it correct that at the time you were searched after you were arrested, some of the money was found in the possession of your co-accused?"
And in an answer given by Kulman, the first applicant:
"At the time I was with Mandla(?) so I was, this from my co-accused that it was found."
But at the end he says:
"Money was with us"
And then on the next page 1203:
"We reported to Thandukolo that there is money and then he said that no, we will talk about that."
In other words, on page 1203, line 10:
"We reported to him that there is money and then he said that no, we will talk about that."

MR MBANDAZAYO: Chairperson, I don't think there is a dispute that there was money, I think the dispute was that it was in the possession of Zama Thutha.  That is what they disputed, that he was in possession of the money at the time.  There was no dispute that there was money in the truck when they took over, but he denied that it was found in his possession.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

ADV PRIOR: ... in the hall.  It is clear that the Committee will consider its decision.  That means that the matter will simply stand adjourned until that time.  May then the interested parties, the family members and that, can they be excused?

CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

ADV PRIOR: Yes.  Mrs Meyers and her daughter are present.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you want us to make any finding in that regard?

ADV PRIOR: Yes, possibly at this stage before the ...

CHAIRPERSON: You don't have any objection to that, do you?  I think it is very clear that his widow and his daughter were injured parties in this.

MR MBANDAZAYO: Yes, Chairperson, they were definitely, there is no doubt about that.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF

CHAIRPERSON: How old is the ...  We are of the opinion that they are victims and have suffered injury and we refer them to the Reparation Committee, that is the widow and daughter of the deceased Mike Meyers.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, may we adjourn for a short while before we ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Well do you want to adjourn for a short while?

ADV PRIOR: Or is it lunch?  Well can we take the adjournment now and then continue with the next matter on resumption?

CHAIRPERSON: What time?

ADV PRIOR: At two, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Two.

ADV PRIOR: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION
MOALUSI MORRISON AND THREE OTHERS
ARGUMENT:  KING WILLIAM'S TOWN GOLF CLUB ATTACK

ADV PRIOR: ... after the luncheon adjournment.   We proceed with the amnesty applications of Moalusi Morrison and three others, under the theme; King William's Town Golf Club Attack.  The matter is ready to be argued.  I'm Advocate P C Prior on behalf of the Amnesty Committee, as Evidence Leader.

MR MBANDAZAYO: My name is Lungelo Mbandazayo on behalf of the applicants, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: The Committee remains the same.