Human Rights Violation Hearings — Port Shepstone — 1996-08-12

WITNESS:   I will say they were soldiers wearing brown uniform.  During the day, after the attacks, they sit down and tried to talk for peace and they started negotiating for a peace settlement.

MR LACKS: As you say there were two groups, which group was he?

WITNESS:   There were two sections separated by a road.  On the other side was the ANC, the other side was an IFP, so they came together to talk, to reach a peace agreement.  /Unfortunately

MR LACKS: Unfortunately at night they injured the people ... (inaudible) ... started killing people.

MR LACKS: During that time where were the police?

WITNESS:   At the time they started shooting at us the police were not there.  They only arrived after they heard that the IFP people had kidnapped other people who were there.

MR LACKS: Who were these people who were kidnapped?

WITNESS:   It was Malinga, my uncle, and my brother-in-law, Jabulani.

MR LACKS: What happened to them?

WITNESS:   After the police had arrived they brought them back.  Actually I won't say they brought them back.  I think they ran away from the kidnappers.

MR LACKS: Thank you very much.

MR LACKS: I would like to ask you a question.  When these people met to try to negotiate for a peace settlement do you remember the names of those people who were ANC and IFP members?  Who were they?

WITNESS:   It was Kehla Luthuli and this other gentleman I can't remember.

MR LACKS: Kehla Luthuli, to which organisation he belongs?

WITNESS:   He's an ANC member.

MR LACKS: Who was the leader for IFP?

WITNESS:   It was Mr Mdagazwa.

MR LACKS: Where are these people at the moment?

WITNESS:   Mr Mdagazwa is around.  Kehla ran away to Transkei at the time of the violence.

MR LACKS: You are saying Mdagazwa is still around.

WITNESS:   Yes, he is still around.

MR LACKS: Which means if we ever would like to come and ask some questions we can find him?

WITNESS:   Yes, you can.

MR LACKS:  Was there any sort of case of any kind which arose following the death of your uncle or your cousin?  Did you attend any court?

WITNESS:   No, we never even opened a case.

MR LACKS: Did you not report the matter?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LACKS: Well why?  Why is that?

WITNESS:   It's because the police were also against the people who were killed.

MR LACKS: You said in your statement earlier, at the end of your statement, that you felt that the police in fact were acting together with the IFP member in Murchison at that time, is that correct, in many of the killings which took place?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR LACKS: The police and the IFP were acting together.  Is that the reason why you did not report it?

WITNESS:   Yes, that is true.

MR LACKS: Do you have a death certificate?

WITNESS:   No.

MR LACKS: Where were your relatives buried?  Were they buried in Murchison or somewhere else?

WITNESS:   He was buried at home in the yard.

MR LACKS: Further questions?  Mrs Dladla, thank you very much for coming in to talk to us today.  Like the two witnesses before you you are from the Murchison area, and it is quite clear from what they have said and what you have said that that area has suffered terribly over the last five or six years, and one would have expected in areas like that, where people from different political parties were fighting and killing each other - one would have hoped and expected that the police would have been ready and willing and able to become involved assisting people, bringing peace to the area, arresting those people that committed these crimes, and trying to ensure that the killing in those areas stopped.  And it's quite clear from what we know about the Murchison area, and many other areas around Port Shepstone, that the police did not do that.  They did not work in the interests of the people, but they worked very often with one political party in order to assist in the defeat of the other political party, and we hope very much that those days have gone now, although we know that in some areas the police are still not playing a correct and proper role.  But we hope that in time, and as our new country grows, that the police will be forced to play a proper role in our society.  But in your case they did not protect you and they did not protect your family, and we sympathise with you.  We will do what we can to find out who killed your cousin and your uncle, and we thank you very much for coming in to tell us the story that you have told us today.  Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: The following witness then is Makhosezwe Mthethwa, if he could please come up onto the stage.  Earphones first please.  Thank you.  Mr Mthethwa, can you hear me, can you understand me?

MAKHOSEZWE MTHETHWA: Yes, I do hear you.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.  You are also from Nkanyezini in Murchison, and you have come to tell us today about the time in June 1992 when someone tried to kill you.

MAKHOSEZWE MTHETHWA: That's very true.

COMMISSIONER: We are very glad that you were lucky enough to survive that, and that you are here today to tell us that story.  Before you tell us the story can you stand up and take the oath?

MAKHOSEZWE MTHETHWA: (Sworn, States)   (Through Interpreter)

COMMISSIONER: Now, Mr Mthethwa, you said in your statement that this happened in June 1992, is that right?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: And that you were on your way to work at that stage.  Just tell us where were you working?

WITNESS:   At Umzimkulu Lime.

COMMISSIONER: (Inaudible)  ... the river.

WITNESS:   Yes.  Just along the road towards the bus stop.

COMMISSIONER: Now - and do you still live in Murchison?  Do you still live in that area?

WITNESS:   Yes, I am still there.

COMMISSIONER: Are you married?

WITNESS:   Yes.

COMMISSIONER: And are you staying with your wife and your children, or are your children old now, have they left

COMMISSIONER: home?

WITNESS:   Yes, one is already working and one has  married already, and I have grandchildren at the same time.

COMMISSIONER: And are you still working at Umzimkulu Lime?

WITNESS:  No, I am not longer working.  I am on pension.

COMMISSIONER: You're on pension, right.  Thank you, Mr Mthethwa.  Can you tell us then what happened to you on that day, on the 22nd of June?

WITNESS:   I left in the morning going to work.  As I was going just along the stop they were three.  I met them.  I tried to greet them, and the next thing there was a gunshot that responded.  They never responded.  And I was shot.

COMMISSIONER: Do you know who those people were?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do know them very well.  Some already have died, and there's one I usually meet in town.  I don't know where he - his whereabouts.

COMMISSIONER: So at the time that they shot you you knew all three of them?

WITNESS:   That's correct.

COMMISSIONER: Were they active in one political party?  Were they members?

WITNESS:   Yes, they belonged to Inkatha.

COMMISSIONER: Were they from the Murchison area?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are neighbours.

COMMISSIONER: And do you have any idea why they should have shot you?

WITNESS:   I will say I was shot because I tried to ask why were we camping.

COMMISSIONER: So were they trying to tell you at night that you should go with them on this night camp business?

WITNESS:   That's correct.  I even asked, "Why are we camping?  Why? What for?  What good reason?"

COMMISSIONER: So when was the last time they told you that you must go on a night camp?

WITNESS:   We used to camp until I

COMMISSIONER: just refused completely and I told them, "I am no longer

COMMISSIONER: /"going to

COMMISSIONER: going to camp because I don't know we should camp in the first place," and I was beaten up.  Then they assaulted me.

COMMISSIONER: And then after that you refused to attend any more camps, and then ... (incomplete)

WITNESS:   I never camped any more because I was already assaulted and I went to the hospital.