Human Rights Violation Hearings — Piet Retief — 1997-05-21

CHAIRPERSON: Can I just say that there's a slight change to the persons who are coming. We were going to have Toliwe Zwane  who was going to talk about Nomsa Mabaso.  Now Toliwe has not come but we have got Mr Andries Ndebele who's son also got killed on that day in the same incident. So I'm going to ask him to come to the stage and tell the story about his son.
 Mr Ndebele good afternoon.

ANDRIES NDEBELE: Good afternoon.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming.  Mr Ndebela you are going to take us back to 1993 back to Thandukukanya township.  We heard many stories this morning already about what happened in that township in that period that you lost your son. Dr Russel Ally is going to help you as you tell your story but before he does that can you please stand to take the oath.  Mr Lewin will you please help.

ANDRIES NDEBELE: (sworn states)

RUSSELL ALLY: Good afternoon Mr Ndebele.

ANDRIES NDEBELE: I also greet you.

RUSSELL ALLY: You're going to tell us about your son. What happened to him. This incident took place on the 3rd of June 1993. There were also other people who were injured and who  were also killed on that day. So we would really appreciate it if you could tell us as much as you know and as much as you can recall about the events of the 3rd of June 1993.

ANDRIES NDEBELE: What happened is that I was at work on that particular night and the children had told me that they would go to Situhle Shleze's(?) memorial or night vigil.  Then the following morning at about 10 in the early morning, mid morning, my friends came to my work place and they told me that my son Sifundo had disappeared. Because they were driving in a car and I tried to find out as to which direction he had followed but they said they didn't know because some were shot during the night and they were at the hospital.  I rushed for the hospital to go and look for my son because they said he had disappeared that night and when I got to the hospital I looked in each and every ward but I couldn't get him, and I was later told that some of the youth had been arrested.  I should go and look at the police station.  I further asked the people who had come to report to me to take me to the police station where I could look for my son and when we got there I was told that there were no youths who had been arrested at that police station except for two bodies that were there at the mortuary.
 I had a desire to go to the mortuary though I had a belief that my son was alive but I also wanted to go to the mortuary to see if I couldn't find my son's body and there are shelves at the police or government mortuary where they pulled out the top shelf drawer when I got there, and when I looked in I could see a female, quite a young female. I shut the drawer because that was not my child but when they pulled out the drawer below that I could identify the corpse as my son. I got very disturbed asking myself how he got to be there at the mortuary.
 At that stage I got very confused.  I was with Themba Khumalo who is quite a well-known person amongst our community together with Mr Mhlulu who is a teacher. They took me outside. I made a request that I wanted to see  what injuries he had sustained because I could see he had an injury on his forehead and I wanted to see the rest of the injuries. Later on I was told that whoever shot at my son shot him from the right-hand side and the bullet went through to the left side. I went back home to tell my family that I had identified my son's body at the mortuary.
 What disturbed me about the whole issue is that when I went to the police station to report the matter, we do not have a police force here because they have not yet changed and are still operating under the old regime. When I went to them to report this matter they told me that I should go and ask Andries Gamede and Josia Thabete as to where my child was. They told me that I should go and report what had happened to the police station but I thank my community for treating me in the manner that they did at that time of confusion and anguish. Sifundo and Numsa Maraso(?) are the children that got killed that day and the community was very helpful in preparing for the funeral.  I thank the Thandukukhanya community for helping me through this very terrible time.
 Quite a length of time elapsed before I could hear from the police as to what had happened and I feel that the police didn't help me in any way to try and find the killers.  But what surprises me today is to hear people in Nelspruit very far from my place asking for amnesty for having killed our children.  I would request this Commission to give these people a chance to come and address this Commission with regard as to how they killed our children because that is what we need to know. What makes me say this is that I do not want to comment on anything that I have read in the newspapers or heard over the radio or any form of media.  But I would appreciate it if the Commission would arrange for these perpetrators to appear before us and the community.  I do not care about who sent him to kill my child but if he can come before me, admit that he killed my son and why he did so, I would like to see that person. Because that is what I would like to know, who shot my child an why. 
 I would appreciate it if this Commission would make it possible for me to see this person because I feel that I am an indirect victim of the killing of my son because of the anguish that I have gone through since his death. I want to be able to have an input as to whether he should be granted amnesty or not. That's my request to the Commission because where these children were shot was in the street, on the main road.  If they were attacking anyone's house I would say they were in the wrong and maybe deserve to have been killed, but they were travelling along the main road and I don't understand as to why they were shot on that particular night. So I would like the person to come forward and explain to me as to what took place that night.

RUSSELL ALLY: Did you attend the amnesty hearing in Nelspruit?

ANDRIES NDEBELE: No I never went there.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were you informed about the fact that there was going to be an amnesty hearing? Were you sent any letter in the post?

ANDRIES NDEBELE: I never received any form of notification. The first time I heard about it was over the radio.

RUSSELL ALLY: You said that when you went to the mortuary to go and see if your son was perhaps one of those people who had been killed, you said that the first corpse that you were shown when they opened the drawer was of a young girl. Was that Nomsa Mabasa who you saw?

ANDRIES NDEBELE: Yes it was Nomsa Mabasa.

RUSSELL ALLY: So you know the family then, I would assume. Her mother Juliet?

ANDRIES NDEBELE: Yes I do, but I don't know where she stays because ever since then she ended up not staying at the residential area.

RUSSELL ALLY: Because we also have a statement from Nomsa's mother about this day's same event that these people amongst whom was your daughter (son?) were coming home from a candle-light procession commemorating the death of Sithule Slezi when they were shot at.  Now I heard you say that you don't want to comment on what you read in the newspapers but maybe you could, if you do know, share with us the names of the people who are directly implicated in this shooting.  That's if you.., because in the statement which we've got from Nomsa's mother, she names quite a few individuals who she believes were directly involved in the shooting and the killing of her daughter.