Amnesty Hearings — East London — 1999-04-26

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Oh, in fact I'm sorry because I'm confusing this with the initial operation, I was not aware that you are referring to the one which Mr Dolo was involved.  In fact, as I said earlier on, there was this thing or this rule which says each should know according to - I don't want to use the word status, I don't know how can I put it, but something like that, so I could not involve them, that is Jabu and Roger, I could not involve them in the reconnaissance of that operation for some reasons and hence I called upon comrade Dolo to come and assist us in that operation.

ADV BOSMAN: But can't you tell us why you could not engage them, why did Mr Dolo come, why could you not engage them?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Well I could not include them for obvious reasons that to say firstly reconnaissance is not - I mean it would not have been wise for me to include a group or more than two people into such an activity or into collecting information so I had to limit the number so that if something went astray during the execution or during our advance to the target, I should know who might have betrayed the information or given the information to the third person.  So it was all about maintaining consistency and making sure that not all of us are part of the same activity, that is if I was to collect information, that is well and good, I will then come back and report to them when necessary or when time avails itself, that gentlemen, this is so and so, so we will be advancing to our targets on this day so prepare yourself.  It was about timing of everything because everything had to be timed, everything had to go according to channels ...[intervention]

ADV BOSMAN: I'm afraid that I'm now even more confused.  If you had a unit of five people, at the time when you planned to attack the old age home and you back with your unit you said that you got together again.  Why do you now need manpower from another unit to attack in the same area again.  Do you see what my difficulty is?  Why not use the same unit, it's your unit, you are the commander?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Well there were plenty of cadres available, I would have changed the whole unit if I wanted to so I'm trying to say here it was not a requirement for that matter to use the same unit in all activities.  It was about choosing who would be best suited in this activity and who will not so in this regard I found comrade Dolo to be an appropriate person to fill that gap so hence the said comrades were not included in collecting the information and until the last minute of an operation.

ADV BOSMAN: And not have provided the security, the back up which Dolo provided, could they not have done that?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: They would have provided that but as I have just said it was a question of choice so instead of choosing them I chose - or one of them, I chose comrade Dolo, so it was not a standard requirement that I used them in all operations or in all activities within.  You may be for instance a commissar and be my deputy but if matters arise and there is no need that I should consult with you or I mean use you, I may, I have that choice or right to choose who can fill your gap.
ADV. BOSMAN: Was it not unusual as it were to ask someone from another unit who is your equal in rank to come and assist while you have members from your own unit which you could have used?  Was that not rather unusual?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: Well there are - everything was unusual.  There was no consistency in all the things so as I'm saying everything was unusual so the unusuality of it was never a problem for us.

ADV BOSMAN: Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Can I also just understand Mr Kgotlhe, did you also say that you were in need of a second commander?

LERATO ABLE KGOTLHE: No, I said I just wanted his experience or expertise, that is why I went for him.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay.  Mr Mbandazayo, anything further?

MR MBANDAZAYO: None Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Is that the evidence of the applicant.

MR MBANDAZAYO: That's the evidence of the applicant, Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Right, Mr Kgotlhe thank you, you can stand down.  We will adjourn at this stage for lunch and we will reconvene at 2 o'clock.
WITNESS EXCUSED
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS