Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-22

UNKNOWN: Yes, they were arrested.  When they were
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 arrested there was, nothing much came of it because we had already given up by then, because it was 1987 or 1988 by then.
 An attorney from Cape Town came after lunch on a Wednesday, and was looking for the Plaatjie family.  My husband was at home then because it was his day off, he was working at a butchery and fortunately he was in.
 This attorney wanted to know how we were related to Luthando and we said that we were his family.  He said that he was there for the trial in the killing of Luthando.
 He gave us a lift in his car, wanting to know if the place where he was shot, was far and asked us to show him where Luthando had been shot.
 This attorney looked at this place and once again we got into the car with him and he brought us back and the following day he came to fetch us and took us to court.
 When we got to court they proceeded with the case in a private court.  And the trial was conducted by a few people.
 During the trial it became apparent that these police are becoming nervous because this attorney has them under cross-examination and he seems to be succeeding.
 We were very happy in our hearts that this attorney was succeeding.  But then the Magistrate said that he would like the court to adjourn, for them to meet outside.
 The Magistrate and the Prosecutor and these two policemen then went out into the passage and we don't know what they said in the passage, but when they came back inside, they said that they apologised because that happened by mistake.
 Because those policemen had not shot at Luthando.  Luthando was a man standing next to a house.  I suppose it 
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means that he was just a rubbish that was standing there.  
 It seems as if the police were shooting at a man that they had been looking for for a while, who had run away from Cape Town with dagga and they were chasing this man and had shot Luthando by mistake, not knowing that it was a school child that was going to school.
 But Luthando was wearing a school uniform and he was on his way to school, he had on a white shirt, a grey pants, green socks, green and white socks, black shoes.  Things that indicate that he was a school child.

MS MAYA: which court did you go to?  Where was the trial conducted?

UNKNOWN: Here in Queenstown.

MS MAYA: Do you remember the name of the attorney?

UNKNOWN: I never, ever got his name because the attorney that we were taken to initially, was Class.

MS MAYA: Is there anybody that can help us establish the name of this attorney?

UNKNOWN: Nobody knows it, because even when I go to these leaders, they don't know it any more.

MS MAYA: Without apologising, what else did the Magistrate say to you people by the time you left?

UNKNOWN: Nothing was said to us parents about this child.

MS MAYA: And the trial just ended?

UNKNOWN: Yes, the trial just ended.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much.

BONGANI FINCA: Revd Xundu.

REV XUNDU: These people that shot him, did you know what the names of these policemen were?

UNKNOWN: I did not know them then and I do not know
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them now, because I do not know policemen.
 Because with the Black policemen, I did not really know them either.

BONGANI FINCA: Denzil Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  Mrs Plaatjie, just one question.  What was the situation in the township on the day that Luthando was shot?  Was it the time of the emergency, what was going on there?

UNKNOWN: There was conflict, much conflict in the location, it was like war.  There was fighting, police were looking for people, especially school children.  It wasn't the first time that they had come into my house either and looked for the children, because late Luthando since they had now shot him, they had already picked him up previously and put him into the police van and when I wanted to know what he had done, they did not say.
 And I wouldn't let him go, I said that I am not letting him go in that case, in stead just take me and go and lock me up because this is a school child, because you are not saying what he had done and they were saying that you'll hear up ahead, and I said no, I'm rather going and then they ran out.
 I stood stark naked in front of them and they ran out.

ADV POTGIETER: Mrs Plaatjie, thank you very much for that explanation.
 I was standing naked, I even took of my panties and stood stark naked and I was swearing at them.

BONGANI FINCA: Dr Ramashala.

MAPULE RAMASHALA: Chairperson, each time you assign me to facilitate witnessing on behalf of a child, I will take the opportunity to remind South Africa that we are enjoying the
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freedom today at a high price.
 Our children paid for it and that we really ought to be grateful.  When a child is born parents rejoice and celebrate and they have dreams.  When a child becomes of school age, that child dreams.
 I don't know how many role models were in Queenstown, but I know there were Doctors, there were teachers, there were nurses, the Clergy, all kinds of role models around which a child could dream, while everybody else's child was going to school, Black children were being killed left and right.
 Black children were not safe going to school, they were not safe playing out on the street.
 At the time, Luthando was not in a group, he was going to school.  As we enjoy this freedom, let us remember, let us honour and let us be grateful for the price that these children paid.  
 Mrs Plaatjie, be comforted that although your child at the time was not part of a political group, that he was killed by the senseless parading of the police in our communities.
 That the ultimate price he paid was so we can enjoy this freedom.  Be comforted to know that as we list all the people who paid the ultimate price, that child will be on the list.
 Thank you very much.

BONGANI FINCA: Thank you very much Mrs Plaatjie for those words that were chosen, we would like to express our gratitude to you for coming to tell your story to the Commission.
 And also for the way in which you made us laugh even
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though it was something painful, we are people that have been created in an amazing way.
 You'll find that we can laugh in - about the way in which we survived these horrible times and we thank you.
 The Commission will follow up and we will try and establish who is responsible. (tape ends)