Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-17

MS VAN DER WALT: You mention in paragraph 37 that creating a revolution the general public would become fearful and then will not take part in the election.

MR LE ROUX: Mr Chairperson, one of the main goals of the bombs was to create an atmosphere of fear and to accentuate the pressure on the government to get the Volkstaat of the right-wing.

MS VAN DER WALT: That is also with regards to a question which was asked to you by Advocate Gcabashe as to what you wanted to do three days before the election and that was to create this atmosphere of fear.

MR LE ROUX: That was not the only reason but that was the main reason and that is exactly this psychosis of fear and that is also to convey a message just like any bomb that exploded in the country by the ANC or anybody else and that was to convey a message and that is the message of self-determination.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did you receive any personal gain from these deeds?

MR LE ROUX: No, none at all.

MS VAN DER WALT: And on behalf of whom did you act?

MR LE ROUX: I acted completely under the leadership of the AWB.

MS VAN DER WALT: Mr le Roux, you were then found ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: In whose interest did you act?

MR LE ROUX: In the interest of the leadership of the AWB, I was their leadership and I reconciled myself with their policies.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did the AWB see you as freedom fighters?

MR LE ROUX: In the discussions we had they proudly referred to us as fights, by certain leaders of the AWB.  I know people who came to visit us addressed us like that.

MS VAN DER WALT: If you talk about some of the leaders, can you tell the Committee who conveyed this to you?

MR LE ROUX: Mr Terreblanche himself said that we did our bit for the stopping of the election or the before election revolution.

MS VAN DER WALT: Did he personally convey it to you?

MR LE ROUX: He conveyed it in a manner which sounded as if he was proud for what we did, and that was the way in which he conveyed it.

MS VAN DER WALT: Was this in prison?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, it was.

MS VAN DER WALT: You were found guilty, not just for the Bree Street bombing, you were also found guilty for having explosives.

MR LE ROUX: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And I'm talking now about the Bree Street, Germiston and Jan Smuts incidents, you were found guilty on all charges, murder, intentional damage etc., and you were convicted.

MR LE ROUX: Yes.

MS VAN DER WALT: How long?

MR LE ROUX: 29 years.

MS VAN DER WALT: And currently you are detained in prison?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, that is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: And you apply for all the charges that you were found guilty of?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, I do.

MS VAN DER WALT: During the hearing before Judge Flemming you did not give evidence?

MR LE ROUX: No, never, I also did not make any statements.

MS VAN DER WALT: You also did not make a statement to the police?

MR LE ROUX: No, I did not make any statement to the police.

MS VAN DER WALT: There was an aspect of a statement that you allegedly would have made but this statement was forged, is that correct?

MR LE ROUX: Mr Chairperson, one evening a policeman came to me and he asked me a few questions.  I answered him indirectly because I did not want to make any statements but later my legal representative, Mrs van der Walt found this statement and in this statement you could see that it was very unprofessional, forgery.  She took this so that they could investigate it, the police themselves, and it was found that it was a forgery.

MS VAN DER WALT: So during your hearing you never implicated any of the leaders of the AWB within this case?

MR LE ROUX: No, I never implicated anyone, I never made any statements and I never said anything to the police.

MS VAN DER WALT: Why did you at that stage want to make any statements or implicated any Staff Generals or leaders or any person who gave you an order?

MR LE ROUX: Because I was part of the AWB in the Ystergarde and there's also one golden rule that we apply and that is never to betray anyone.

MS VAN DER WALT: During the hearing it would seem and if it's correct, that when the State witnesses testified, that is now Koekemoer and various other people who were also at the game farm and shooting range, it clearly showed concerning that evidence, that the whole operation there had only one goal and that was to make war.

MR LE ROUX: That is correct Mr Chairperson, the only purpose was warfare and nothing else.  We were called up in the struggle, we began it and we made the best of what we had.

MS VAN DER WALT: We were prepared to give our lives for this matter and that was the evidence of the State Witnesses.

MR LE ROUX: That is correct.

MS VAN DER WALT: There's one aspect but I could maybe take it up later.  I had photocopies made of a newspaper but I cannot find the lady now so that can stand over till later.  Apart from that article in the newspaper I am finished.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VAN DER WALT

MR PRINSLOO: I'm representing the other applicants, may I continue, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

MR PRINSLOO: I'm involved with the incidents, my applicants are involved with that.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible]

INTERPRETER: The speaker's microphone is not on.

CHAIRPERSON: That's one, two - okay Mr Prinsloo, you may go ahead.

MR PRINSLOO: Thank you Chairperson.
	Mr le Roux, before 1990 when the ANC was unbanned, you have military service and you supported the right-wing politics?

MR LE ROUX: That's correct Mr Chairperson.

MR PRINSLOO: And as far as the right-wingers were concerned at that stage, their policy was to obtain a Volkstaat?

MR LE ROUX: It was the policy I spoke of earlier.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Prinsloo, he already gave evidence to that extent.

MR PRINSLOO: As the Chair pleases.
	Mr le Roux, inasfar as the right-wingers were concerned after 1990 when the ANC was made legal again, did this have any influence on the AWB and the right-wingers in general?

MR LE ROUX: It was again illustrated to us that the NP wanted to hand the power over to the ANC and because of that we considered the NP to be our enemy.

MR PRINSLOO: Was it acceptable to the right-wingers that the ANC/SACP Alliance would govern the country?

MR LE ROUX: No, not at all, we opposed this government with everything we had, with all our power and we could see this from the papers and from the meetings of right-wing parties.  All of them disagreed with what was going to happen.

MR PRINSLOO: And you attended the meetings of the AWB and the right-wing parties?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, I attended several meetings.

MR PRINSLOO: And the utterances which were made by Mr Terreblanche and other leaders of the AWB and right-wingers, did it had an influence on you with regard to your actions in the bomb explosions?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, it definitely had an influence on me.  If you live in the milieu where you have to stop this thing and you must do it then you work yourself up towards that point.

MR PRINSLOO: No at the end of '93, the beginning of '94, were you aware of bomb explosions which took place at the West Rand, Free State and Western Transvaal?

MR LE ROUX: Yes, several bomb explosions.  I also quoted before what the AWB said, that they almost accept responsibility for that, so there was a complete and constant struggle.  Even during that time there were bomb explosions taking place all over the country and as I saw it, this culminated or ended in the great bombs with the elections.

MR PRINSLOO: General Constand Viljoen at the beginning of '94, was he part of the Conservative Party, Doctor Ferdie Hartzenberg, the leader of the AWB, Eugene Terreblanche where it was decided that they would not take part in the election, is that correct?