Human Rights Violation Hearings — Duduza — 1997-02-04

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I will only reconcile if I will be given opportunity to see those people who called me informers, because on the other side it was the police and the other side the Comrades and that state was so much difficult for me to go through.  Often times, Alexandra Mtweti, was a councillor, he is the one who use to console me and be so supportive to me positively.  Even in front of the Judge when others were testifying I felt like jumping and fighting with them because they were telling blatant lies.  The only person I knew was the late Maki and Maki knew everything that I was up to.  This is why I cried so badly after Maki was killed, because I was charged for life.  The very same girl who, when other people will come to the, to our township I will be so much helpful.  I was highly affected about Maki's death, I kept telling people even in the cells at Modderbee that it was a lie that Maki was an informer, because if she was, all other Comrades from other townships would tell the police that that was not true.  I will continue and go on.
 I want to tell you that I will only reconcile when only I could be given opportunity to see those people who were painting others black and yet they were the evil ones, the traitors and the informers.  That is when I will reconcile.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please.  Order, order please.  We are asking you could you please be quiet.  Go on.

MR LEWIN: Please go on.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I will end here in as far as what happened to me during those years.  Before I reconcile because I was
assaulted and harassed in prison and even outside prison the same thing took place.  Some of the councillors here, not all of them though, some individuals, SANCO and ANC branch of Duduza were against the TRC.  Even Kulumani support group will second me here.  Mum Tobela will be my witness in as far as that is concerned.  Even Evelina Puleng, Maki's sister, knows that very well.  They tried to insist calling me an informer and tried to influence the community not to attend our meetings when we call up for support group and saying all sort of negative things about me.  I know all of those people and I am prepared to make mention of their names right here.  People are here to reconcile.

MR LEWIN: Could we please have quiet.  Do you want to read the Riot Act and I will ...

MRS SEROKE: Sorry.

MR LEWIN: Read the Riot Act.  Just ask them, explain that we have to have quiet.

CHAIRPERSON: Please we are expected to be quiet.  If you want to hear the truth and let everybody here hear the truth, please, let us be quiet.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: What I will say is that I was so much assaulted, harassed and I was going through sufferings and people would point fingers at me saying I am a traitor, an informer, calling me a sell-out.  Even to date, I still feel bad about that and they make me even want to kill those people.  I underwent such a tragedy, you do not understand.  On the other side were Comrades, on the other hand there were police.  You can imagine what I was going through.

MR LEWIN: Could we ...

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I suffered a lot, I almost was affected mentally.  Even today, I think somehow I am affected
mentally.  So, I am not going to, I am not going to reconcile, I am not about to.

MRS SEROKE: Order please, order.

CHAIRPERSON: Buthelezi, could you, I think you have come to the end, could you please take questions.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Thank you, Mr Buthelezi, and could we please give the witness a chance to have his say.  Mr Buthelezi, could I put this, I am trying to get the context of your story.  You began in, you said, in June 1985.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Could you tell us, at that stage, what organisations were you part of that you were approached then by the police?  Were you, were you part of organised, political organisations?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes, I was a member of an organisation and that was United Democratic Front at the time.

MR LEWIN: And you mentioned a neighbour who was also a member of the police.  Would he have know that you were part of that organisation?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes, he knew that I was a member, even though he was not too sure which group, but he knew my involvement in politics.

MR LEWIN: Was he also involved at the time that the police came through the window and planted, as you say, planted the hand, the bombs?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I will say I would not know, because I was not around.  I was told when I got home what happened when I was away.

MR LEWIN: Could you explain to us how you, how you survived at that time, because you seemed to have moved from 1985 through to about 1987.  How were you, how were you living?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I survived, you know, I ignored all rumours.  Some time I would tell myself that I will reach out for the gun and go around and shoot all those who were saying I was an informer.

MR LEWIN: Yes, I am not asking you about the rumours so much, but how did you, on a day to day to basis, did you have a job?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I went to school in Shlamo Technical College, I did carpentry, because I thought that was my gift.

MR LEWIN: And then if I could come onto the time you went from Leeukop to Heidelberg and then you said you were taken to Modderfontein for an operation.  Could you tell us what that operation was?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: When I was tortured at Denota Police Station I was kicked at my private parts and the person who kicked me was a police Templeton Sibaka, who is late now, and another one who use to torture a lot was Bushlong.  I have forgotten his surname, also I have forgotten to make mention of his name when I was telling you the whole story.

MR LEWIN: But the operation, can you tell us what that was, was?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: As I have said, that I was kicked at my private parts, I fainted and I do not know what happened thereafter because I was now lying unconscious.  After that I experienced continuous pain, pains until I insisted that I would like to go and consult with the doctor, to see the doctor and there came a time when they responded to my requests, after, also my advocate had talked to them.

MR LEWIN: Okay and now after you had been charged in February 1987, you were charged with treason, this is with Montwede and Tobena, you were charged with terrorism, arson, subversion, but then you were, you were sentenced to six months imprisonment.  What was the charge there?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: They had 38 accounts, the first one was subversion.

MR LEWIN: You say you got six months, what was the six months for?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I was sentenced to six months imprisonment because we led the State by (indistinct), we found out that they misled the, those who gave statements.

MR LEWIN: Okay and where did you actually serve that six months?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: At Modderbee prison.

MR LEWIN: At Modderbee.

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Yes and then when you were released, what happened then?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I was at home doing my job as I was a Carpenter up until I went to the Technical.

MR LEWIN: Now these, these accusations against you and your differences with the community, particularly in relation to Maki, was that while you were in Modderbee or when you were out?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: That took place before my detention and also after I was released, to date.

MR LEWIN: Okay and can you tell us calmly, or as calmly as possible, why you, why you had these feelings and what the rumours were about?

NHLANHLA JOHN BUTHELEZI: I beg yours?

MR LEWIN: Can you tell us what was the substance of the rumours against you and what did you feel about them?