Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-05-03

<UNKNOWN>: DAY 2

CHAIRPERSON: I regret the delay there has been in starting this morning.  We had understood that when we adjourned this hearing, statements would be obtained from all potential witnesses and would be made available to the applicants and other interested parties, but unfortunately it has not been possible to do that, and statements were, summaries were prepared this morning, which have been made available.  It is obvious that the potentially most important witness, has not as yet, made a statement, although at the last hearing he indicated that he was prepared to come and give evidence, he is a witness whom I think we would wish to hear before arriving at a decision, subject of course to what anyone may say, but we can in the meantime proceed with the victims and witnesses who are here, and dispose of them.  I don't know whether it is proposed to continue questioning the applicant, to put to him the matters that arise from the two statements, summaries that have been given to us, to allow him to give his explanation in regard to that, before the evidence is led, or whether it is proposed he should be given the opportunity to give evidence after all the evidence has been led, to deal with such evidence.  What are your views?

MR MATTHEWS: Mr Chairman, I think it would only be fair if he be given the opportunity after all evidence.

CHAIRPERSON: You are happy that we proceed now?

MR MATTHEWS: Yes, I am.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you can consult with your client afterwards and if you wish to recall him, you can do so.

MR MATTHEWS: I will do so.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you agree to that?

MS MTANGA: I am of the same view Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, we will now then continue.  Who are you calling.

MS MTANGA: We are now call Ms Musiziwe Zuma, the wife of Moses Zuma.

MR LAX: Good morning Ms Zuma, can you hear us?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: Good morning, yes.

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Before we proceed, could I also place certain facts on record.  The Committee sitting here in the application, is the same as previously sat and Mr Matthews continues to appear for the applicant.  Could the Leader of Evidence and the Counsel for the victims please put themselves on record?

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson, I am Lulama Mtanga, the Evidence Leader for the Truth Commission, assisting the victims in this matter, thank you.

MS WILLIAMS: Mr Chairman, I appear on behalf of the implicated persons and my name is Gillian Williams.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MS MTANGA: Thank you Chairperson.  Ms Zuma, can you confirm that you are the wife of Mr Moses Zuma, who was killed by the applicant?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: Yes, I do confirm that.

MS MTANGA: Were you present when your husband was killed by the applicant?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I was not present on the day that he was killed.

MS MTANGA: At the previous hearing in Pietermaritzburg, the applicant testified that your husband belonged to the ANC and that is the reason why he killed him.  What is your comment to this?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I do not know anything about him being a member of the ANC, I knew him to be a member of the IFP.

MS MTANGA: Can you tell us more about his IFP membership, when did he join the IFP?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: He joined the IFP at Ebuveni where we were born and bred.  When my husband was killed, we had not as yet received membership cards, but we had already joined the party.  Our Chief Griffiths Nzama was an IFP member and the entire area was populated by IFP persons.

CHAIRPERSON: So you say you had not received your IFP cards?  Had you applied for them and were you expecting them?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: Yes, our cards were expected to arrive on the following day, the day after which he was murdered.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know where from?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I do not know, but they would have been delivered to the court at Ebuveni.

MS MTANGA: Before you joined the IFP, what was your political affiliation, that is yourself and your husband?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: We were not affiliated to any political organisation before we joined the IFP.

MS MTANGA: Can you remember who recruited you to join the IFP, the name of the person who recruited you to join the IFP?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: The entire area of Ebuveni was an IFP stronghold, even the Chief himself was an IFP member.

MS MTANGA: Is it, is the Chief still alive?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: No, he is late, but at the time he was still alive.

MS MTANGA: The applicant has also testified that your husband Moses Zuma, was involved in blocking school children from going to school, what is your comment on this?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I do not know anything about that.  I do not even know that school children were prevented from going to school at some point.

CHAIRPERSON: Did your husband have any vehicles, cars, or anything that he could have used to block the road?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: No, he did not have a vehicle.

MR LAX: Did your husband have a group of people that associated with him, of which he was the leader?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: No, he was not a leader of any group of people.  I don't know him to be a leader at the area.

MR LAX: What work did he do?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: He worked in Johannesburg, but at the time of his death, he was at home.

MR LAX: What was he doing at home?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: He lost his job, and at the time of his death, he was unemployed.

MR LAX: How long had he been at home, unemployed?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: It was the second month that he was at home.

MR LAX: What did he spend his time doing, while he was at home during the day, that is?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: He would go out to look for jobs, he did not hang around at home, but he would go out and look for a job.

MR LAX: Were there young people hanging around your house at all?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: No.

MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson.

MS MTANGA: Ms Zuma, was your husband at any time involved in recruiting people for the ANC?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: No, he was not involved because I do not know anything about it.

MS MTANGA: Are you able to give us a name, full names of a person in the IFP in your area, who can confirm your husband's membership and that of yours and that you actually joined the IFP?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: What I know is that all of the people of Ebuveni were IFP members, even the people I came with here, today, can attest to that.

MR SIBANYONI: Ms Zuma, if your husband was involved in recruiting people for the ANC, would you know about it?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I would have known because I lived with him.

MS MTANGA: Are you able to give us a name of a person who is a leader in your community, the leader of the IFP?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: They came to our area to recruit us for the IFP, but there isn't a leader in the area, but we are all members of the IFP.

MR LAX: Who came to your area, sorry?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: I do not remember where they came from to recruit us at Ebuveni.

MS MTANGA: I have no further questions, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA

MR LAX: Just one issue if I may Chair, before Mr Matthews goes ahead.  Did your husband have any firearms or a firearm that you knew about?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: He did not have a firearm.

MR LAX: If he had one, would you have known about it?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: Yes, I should have known.

MR LAX: Thank you.

MR MATTHEWS: You have told us you applied for IFP membership.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Williams, have you any questions?

MS WILLIAMS: No Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS WILLIAMS

MR MATTHEWS: We will return, you have told us you applied for IFP membership, did you ever receive your card?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: Yes, we did receive the cards.

MR MATTHEWS: Where is it now?

BUSIZIWE ANTOINETTE ZUMA: We left them at home.