Human Rights Violation Hearings — Umtata — 1996-06-20

ADV NTSEBEZA: That is where I will end Kamela.  The next one will be Pumla Gobodo next to me so that we can get more from your wisdom.

MS GOBODO: Thank you Dumisa.  To be quite one Thembu, that will also give me the opportunity to call you Kamela.  You must not talk about Dalamore, but we are very happy to have you here before the Commission.  All those atrocities that happened in the 1960's, it is obvious that the torture to our people started quite a long time ago.  Now, you have
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come here to talk about the fact that you were arrested from 1958.  Tell us how did it happen that you were wanted by the Security Police?

MR SIGWELA: Thank you lady and all the Commissioners.  In short, I am here to the Commission about a matter that does not only concern me, it concerns a lot of us.  We have been trying to consider this, about this matter.  Even though we did not come to a concrete conclusion, but when the Commission started we decided for us to take the lump out of our throats, we must come to the Commission and say what is inside us.  I am going to start about 1968.
 In 1968 I was working at the Xhosa Development Corporation at that time.  I was a work study assistant in the Xhosa Development Corporation.  Their offices use to be in the Vulenlela in the industrial section there.  I was fetched in the mornings by my Manager.  He said I must come and study a certain construction that was here next to the hospital.  Only to find out there was a plan so that I must be taken out of where I was working.  There was just another car that just passed us by and that is how I was taken.  
 Once we got into the camp, which is now a Police Training College, they use to kick me on my chest.  That was Mr Brown kicking me.  He was the Chief Investigator at that time because of the political issues.

MS GOBODO: Could you please tell us why you were taken?

MR SIGWELA: No, they had not told me anything at that time.  They kicked me before they even said anything to me.  The only thing that he told me that that trade union of yours is af now.  At that time I was still organising the trade union.  We use to call the Transkei General Workers Union.  We use to organise everybody because it is because of the
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way workers use to be treated in Umtata, in all the workplaces in Umtata.  
 He slapped my face and he kicked me.  He kicked me with mule kicks and when I was becoming weak, I could not even stand anymore, the Captain stopped him.  It was Captain Jacbos.  He said no, no, stop.  From there I was taken to the township where I use to stay.  That is where they searched my place.  They found one of the people that I use to stay with.  Even though he never use to be there all the time.  His name was Amos Yengisie.  When he was fetched from the house they kept on kicking him saying that he is a Russian.  
 While we were in prison they came again to search my house.  They said they were using their, looking for a certain secret writing ink.  There was another lawyer called Mr Joyi.  They were also asked about this certain writing ink.  I was quite shocked about this because I did not even know what was a secret writing ink.  We were tortured because of this.  I do not even know whether they did get this ink, but briefly because I want to get into this point that I am here about.  
 We were arrested on the 26th of September 1968, but now in January we were transferred.  We did not even know where we were going, but there is something that I forgot to tell you.  Another one who has been arrested was my uncle Joyi, Chief Jamabantu Joyi.  Today he is called Tolamveni Joyi.  There were others who were arrested.  I use to hear this from the security who use to talk about them.  I got this information from the security that they use to ask me, do you know this so and so Laminie from Durban, Nobo and others?  I said, no, I do not know these people.  So I asked UMTATA HEARING EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE
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how did this person come here, this Lingisie.  I said, no, I do not know.  The only thing I know about him is that he is a salesman.  So they said, no, it looks like now this one does not know anything.  Then they said, but we wonder why you do not know much.  At that time they came with boats and ships which belonged to the English at the time.  These were the Intelligence Officers of the Umkhonto we Sizwe.

MS GOBODO: Is this what the security said to you?

MR SIGWELA: Yes, that is what the security told me, but among this whole group that was arrested I was picked out together with Chief Jamabantu.  We were put into leg irons and we were hand-cuffed as well.  They took Sister Dogata and Lingisie.  Then we were all taken to a place that I do not know until we were put into Stimvaries van.  On the following day we were taken from the police cells.  Just on our way out of the police station in Pietermaritzburg we saw another truck.  We were taken from this, another truck into the next one.  I saw the way that they were greeting each other.  Lingisie was in pawn clothes and we were taken into Court in College Road in the Supreme Court in Pietermaritzburg.  We were made to line up and we were joined by another woman.  I thought she was an identification parade.  Her name was Dorothy Neymbe.  We were lined according to the numbers of our, of being accused.  Number one was accused was Nobowa, number two was Lingisie, number three was Lela Silaminnie and all those who were the ones who came by boat.  Number four was Lawrence Pokanogo, number five was Patrick Matanjane from Cape Town and number six Dala Kutsulu.  The one we keep on hearing about in the news.  Number seven Silas Magotsie and number eight was Johannes Sileka, number nine was Ezra
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Sigwela, that is me, number ten was Jonga Bantoskowe, number 11 was Sisa Dogata, 12 was Dorothy Neymbe.  
 This went on in Court.  There were also witnesses Sir.  There was also Gatsha Buthelezi.  There were also others like Makize. They were captured from Zimbabwe.  Others were Mandla Nkosi.  They use to tell about the battles that use to happen in Zimbabwe and there others also from the Transkei.

MS GOBODO: Sorry Sir, when you said there were witnesses.  Could you please tell us more about the case?  This particular case that you came to Court for and Gatsha's involvement.

MR SIGWELA: Our charges were charges were conspiracy to overthrow the State.  Those were our charges.  That is now count number one. Count number two was military training and count number three were just the other things that we were told that we use to do.  Now, the first one was the first, this was the first case of the Terrorism Act.  After the Terrorism Act has been passed.  The Act use to say the accused is presumed guilty until he or she is proved innocent.  In our case it was the reverse.  So now this was the first time that we saw these Laws were not so civilized.  All I want to do, I am trying to drive into a point.  Then we were sentenced under the Terrorism Act.  Myself, in particular, I was charged of harbouring especially Lingisie.  They said to me they presumed that Lingisie has trained me.  So I was also charged of military training.

MS GOBODO: Sorry Sir, I would like to take you back.  You said Lingisie was called Russian.  When they said you were being harboured, I just want to find out more.  What is harbouring?
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