Amnesty Hearings — Ermelo — 1998-07-20

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman, with the leave of the Committee, my learned friend Mr Patel and myself, as indicated earlier, have felt it would be best to sketch a background to the events.  You will note that application is also being sought in respect of certain acts and events which were perpetrated in the Piet Retief area.  I thought this would go much quicker, but in order to put the Committee or inform the Committee as to the general events and circumstances which also prevailed at Piet Retief and in respect of Mr Gushu's application in particular relating to that area, I propose calling a witness, the current incumbent Mayor of Piet Retief, Mr Andries Gamede who will be able to advise the Committee as to what circumstances prevailed at the time Mr Gushu was recruited.  So, if I may just call Mr Gamede to the ... (intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Is that bit of evidence very essential given the fact that we have such documentary evidence?

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman, I don't have really much documentary evidence as relating to Piet Retief area and certain acts were carried out by Mr Gushu in respect of which he is applying for amnesty, and that specifically took place in Piet Retief.  Mr Msibi is implicated and there was also rumours circulating about the involvement of certain policemen in Piet Retief, and these two policemen whose names have been mentioned, Mr Mkhwanazi and Warrant Officer Pienaar, are in fact represented at this sitting.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, I assume you've properly considered the fact that you are calling a public servant and the implications that may arise there.

MR BLACK: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Well, carry on.  Just spell the name please.  Can you spell the name, Mr Black?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: I am Andries Mozikefani Gamede.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Black, would you spell the name please?

MR BLACK: Yes.  It's Andries, A-N-D-R-I-E-S, Gamede G-A-M-E-D-E.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gamede, have you got any objection to the taking of the oath?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Which language would you prefer to use?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: English.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you sure?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Would you stand please.

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: (sworn states)

CHAIRPERSON: Be seated.  You can be seated.

MR BLACK: Mr Chairman, I propose, as my indications are that there doesn't seem to be too much of a dispute as to the background information.  So, I will be leading the evidence to a large extent to speed it up.  My learned friends who represent victims and other parties can object if there's anything leading evidence.  Mr Gamede, you are currently the elected Mayor of Piet Retief, is that not so?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: That is so.

MR BLACK: Mr Gamede, are you going to prefer to speak in Sosotsi.

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: I will prefer to speak English.

MR BLACK: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Gamede, that's what I asked you.  I asked what do you prefer, not what you're prepared to do.

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: I'm prepared to do that.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you prefer?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: English.

CHAIRPERSON: English?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: Yes.

MR BLACK: Now, Mr Gamede, what we would like you to do is to try and sketch some of the background to the events which were taking place in the Piet Retief community prior to Mr Gushu coming onto the scene and what you experienced.

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: Yes.  I actually came to Piet Retief from Pongola.  I'm a person that was born in Pongola which is about a hundred (100) kilometres away from Piet Retief.  I actually went for my education in Swaziland.  I came into Piet Retief in 1984.  Prior to my coming to Piet Retief, obviously I was looking for work.  I would want to indicate that there were already a few incidents that have taken place in Piet Retief.  In 1982 Vusimuzi Mbongwa who was from the local township was a member of the MK.  He was actually killed by a farmer in an area which is about forty (40) kilometres away from Piet Retief, after a bombing of a petrol station.  In 1993 there were two members of the ANC who were killed in the town of Piet Retief.  One of the police who were actually injured there was Boshumane.  In 1995 ... (intervention)

MR BLACK: Sorry, Mr Gamede.  Is it 1995 or 1985?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: 1985.

MR BLACK: And the previous date was 1983?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: Yes.  1985 we had the well-known incident that took place in Piet Retief of the person who actually bombed Sasol, Bani Mlungwane who was actually secretly buried in Piet Retief after being killed by the police and some farmers in Piet Retief.  In 1986 a member of the underground of the ANC, a local person, Philamyeni, was actually killed under mysterious circumstances which up to date we don't know exactly what happened.  During the year of 1987 to 1988 we had a situation where a car full of, a small car, a Toyota Corolla, of members of the ANC were ambushed by the police from Piet Retief.  And in 1988 we had a situation where a kombi full of members of the ANC were killed, all of them in that kombi.  What actually shocked the community in Piet Retief worse was that there was an inquest that actually took place in Piet Retief where Advocate Moranyani, who is now involved with the Commission of Inquiry in the Shobashobane massacre, one lady was actually shot through her vagina in that incident.  Some of the people, the bodies, were stripped with bullets and the car that they were in was stripped with bullets.  Obviously in 1990 we had a situation where ... (intervention)

MR BLACK: Sorry, who was responsible for that shooting of the kombi?

ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE: The people who actually appeared in the inquest, it was Eugene de Kock and Mr Pienaar, and there were quite a few people from Vlakplaas.  (Cellular phone ringing)  Have you answered?

MR BLACK: Yes.