Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1998-06-09

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: That is correct.   Me and Commandant Martins got there, there were already a few others.   We stood around and waited, then Commandant Kloppers arrived.   He brought us to attention.   We saluted him, then Commandant  Kloppers said he just came back from an order group which he had on the smallholding of General Japie Oelofse, and that General Japie Oelofse gave the instruction that the revolution will begin tonight, "It is war now", he said and the time for games is over and that there must be corpses, he wants to see corpses, and that is now General Oelofse, this is the real thing, it was very definite.

MR PRINSLOO: Were you armed when you arrived there and stood there?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I did not have a weapon then.

MR PRINSLOO: Were weapons given to you or to anybody else?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, Commandant Kloppers said to me that I must come with him to his vehicle.   He opened the boot of the Escort and took out two shotgun pipes, it was behind the seat, he took that out, he gave one to Etienne Visser and the other one to me, after which he asked me do I know how to work it and I said, "No, I do not know, I've never shot with one before", then Mr Van der Schyff came to me and he said to me, "Give it to me, I will show you how to shoot kaffirs".

MR PRINSLOO: Did Mr Kloppers call Mr Van der Schyff?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: He said to him, "Come here", and that is when Mr Van der Schyff said to me, "You do not know how to work it, I will show you how to shoot kaffirs with it".

MR PRINSLOO: Did you then give the weapon to him?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: On the instruction of Commandant Kloppers who said, "Give that thing to Mr Van der Schyff", and I executed that order and gave the weapon.

MR PRINSLOO: From the roadhouse did you then go to Mr Badenhorst's house with the others?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes.

MR PRINSLOO: And at Mr Badenhorst's house, what did you do there?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Commandant Deon Martin gave me an instruction to change the number plates, because I was a mechanical officer.   I changed the number plates, in order for the numbers not to be distinguishable if we were followed by the traffic cops.

MR PRINSLOO: And what registration numbers of what vehicles?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: It was a Mercedes and the Nissan Sentra.

MR PRINSLOO: And from there you went to Mr Visser's house?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: That is correct, yes.

MR PRINSLOO: At the house of Mr Visser, did you drink any strong alcohol?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, I didn't, I don't know about the others, I don't drink.

MR PRINSLOO: And from Mr Visser's house, did you go to Mr Leon Martin's smallholding?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: That is correct, yes, from where I went into the house, I saw that everything was all right and when I came out, I was then there where it was explained about the roadblock.   During the time that we moved from Andre Visser's to Deon Martin's house, I drove with Deon and Kloppers, and in the vehicle nothing was said under no circumstances about what is going to happen or what must be done.

MR PRINSLOO: Was there any equipment given to anyone?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, I was given a light, or a jacket.   Peter Matthew's was given the other jacket.

MR PRINSLOO: And the blue light?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: The blue light was put in the Sentra, where I got the instruction to, when we reached the roadblock, I must connect it.

MR PRINSLOO: And after you then left Deon Martin's small-holding, who did you go with then?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I drove with Kloppers and Martins and the other were in the Mercedes.

MR PRINSLOO: So you were not with the group where they mentioned the black people who were chased?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: There were assaults along the road.   We drove and Phil Kloppers saw the Sentra had stopped.   He said to Deon to reverse to see what was going on, and then they sent me to go and call the guys, where I was part of the attack on the black people and where Mr Van der Schyff was also injured at that stage.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you yourself assault anyone?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes I did.   I had a baton, and I attacked them with that.

MR PRINSLOO: You're talking about someone who was injured?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Mr Van der Schyff, I by mistake hit him on the ankle with the baton.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the incident, did you then leave there to the Radora Crossing?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: And at the Radora Crossing was there a roadblock as far as the evidence goes?   And what was your instruction there?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: I was given a torch and a baton, where I was told to pull off the cars, that if they show or flash their lights, that we must pull them off and that was the purpose, or my duty.

MR PRINSLOO: Why was the torch and baton given to you?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: The baton was given to me because I did not have a gun, and the torch was used to pull off the cars.

MR PRINSLOO: Were vehicles pulled off the road at that roadblock?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, as far as I can remember, four vehicles were pulled off, a Honda Ballade and a Cressida.

MR PRINSLOO: Let us go directly to the Honda Ballade and Cressida.   With this incident, what happened there?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: The vehicles approached us.   Deon and them flashed their lights and said, "These are the people, pull them off".   We waited.   The vehicles stopped and they came closer.   I pulled them off, where Commandant Phil Kloppers and Commandant Martin walked to the vehicles and asked the people to get out.   One of the persons did not want to react, whereas Commandant Kloppers took the baton from me and broke the windscreen on the side where the occupant then reacted and got out.

MR PRINSLOO: The people that got out of this vehicle, or this specific vehicle, what did they have to do then?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: They were asked to - they were physically searched, not by myself, I cannot remember who did it.   I was told to search the inside of the car.   They had to sit next to the road on an embankment.

MR PRINSLOO: And where were you positioned at that stage when the people went to go and sit on the embankment?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: When the people went to go and sit on the embankment it was told to me, after the cars were searched, that I must go and stand directly opposite the road in the direction of Radora and look for vehicles.

MR PRINSLOO: How far were you then from the scene where the people sat?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Approximately 15 to 20 feet.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you then focus your attention on coming vehicles?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, that is correct.

MR PRINSLOO: At any stage did you receive the instruction at Radora to shoot at people or... (intervention).

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No, not as far as I know.

MR PRINSLOO: Let me put it this way, you did not have a weapon so you had nothing to do with the shooting?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: No.

MR PRINSLOO: Were shots fired at the people?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes, what I saw what happened was that Andre Visser, or first Kallie Meiring walked past me to the Sentra, and then Andre Visser came towards me and just when he passed me, there was a group that formed.   They moved between and around the cars, and suddenly it was just one, or loud noise when the shots were fired.

MR PRINSLOO: And after the shots were fired, did you remain at the scene?

GERHARDUS JOHANNES DIEDERICKS: Yes I did, where Commandant Martin called me and he asked me for the torch.   I gave it to him and he gave me the instruction to go and help.

MR PRINSLOO: And the other people, did they leave?