Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — 1999-10-28

FUMANIKILE BOOI: When we parked our vehicle, they just slanted in front of the car on the right fender, their right fender was closing our right fender and one policeman, the one who was seated on the left, he jumped out of the car carrying a gun in his hand.  The second policeman jumped out of the car, carrying an Uzzi on his right-hand side.

MS PATEL: Okay.  Now I just want to put Mr Beeslaar's version to you.  Mr Beeslaar is one of the people who was injured in the incident.  He states that, it's in Afrikaans, so I'm just going to read it in Afrikaans, the translation will come through to you.

CHAIRPERSON: What page?

MS PATEL: Page 17 Honourable Chairperson.
"While our vehicle and the suspect vehicle were slowly moving, a black man  who was sitting on the left-hand, at the back of the car jumped out and Sgt Els also jumped from the police vehicle."
What is your comment on his version?  His version is in fact the same version as that of Mr Moyese as well.

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Before I comment on his version, I just want to ask the Committee to understand that when this case was prepared against me in 1992, it was prepared for the sole purpose that I have to be sentenced, but if you can consult them today to tell the truth of what is happening, they'll give you a different version.  This is the way how we were always being sentenced, that the policemen have always been the best in what, but coming to your question, in his version, I ordered my comrades in the car that no-one should get out of the car until it is standing, because we didn't know how many people were there at the back of the car and right at that present moment we had no intention to shoot anybody if they were police.  My decision came only when I became convinced that these are not police.

CHAIRPERSON: What do you think would have happened if you had decided they were police?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Sorry?

CHAIRPERSON: What would have happened if you thought they were really police?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: At that present moment ourselves and the government had a mutual understanding that we are inside the country, we are armed, the police had that knowledge.  They had instructions that when you arrest MK cadres, they will proceed to the police and we'll inform our own Commanders and then that will be a negotiation between them.

CHAIRPERSON: Oh, so it wasn't a question that you would be arrested and charged if found in possession of firearms and so forth?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Then that will be breaching the agreements with them because government knew that we are armed and we are inside the country.

MS PATEL: Alright.  Thank you Honourable Chairperson, there's just one point I want to check and it will be my last.  Will you grant me a moment?  No, thank you Chairperson, it's in fact confirmed that the policemen had an Uzzi in their possession in terms of the documents before us.  Thank you, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL

CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination, Mr Papier?

MR PAPIER: I have no re-examination thank you Judge.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR PAPIER

ADV BOSMAN: Mr Booi, what was the outcome of these charges which were brought against you?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: The case was withdrawn in 1992, November, in the Cape Town Supreme Court.

ADV BOSMAN: Yes and there's just one matter that still puzzles me a bit.  Did I understand you correctly that you were picked up at 9 o'clock that evening, round about 9?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: I say round about that time, I'm not quite sure about the time, but it was late in the evening, because we had our briefings in Fawu, starting from 8 o'clock so it might be past 9, 10 or whatever it is.

ADV BOSMAN: What would you say the latest would have been?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: The latest can be because we actually arrived in Nyanga at 1 in the morning.  I say it could be past 11 to 12, when we had our last briefing.

ADV BOSMAN: Now why I'm asking you this questions it that according to the charge sheet the car was taken from this Mrs Thomas at ten past eleven.  Where would you say you were at ten past eleven?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: No, I was using my own car.  I never had any knowledge of any car being taken from a Mr Thomas.

ADV BOSMAN: This car was taken in Lansdowne Road, where were you picked up?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: I was picked up in Khayelitsha.

ADV BOSMAN: How far is that from Lansdowne Road and Hanover Park Avenue?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: I drive from Fawu in Guguletu with my unit to join Comrade Chris Hani in Khayelitsha, inside Khayelitsha next to  Khaye Bazaar that is inside, in the middle of Khayelitsha, far away from Lansdowne Road.

ADV BOSMAN: So then you must have been picked up round about 12 o'clock.

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Yes, it's what I'm saying, I'm not quite sure in the incident, but I know it was late at night.

ADV BOSMAN: Alright.  Thank you.

ADV SIGODI: No, I have no questions.

CHAIRPERSON: As I understand your evidence, you were arrested the day after this incident.

FUMANIKILE BOOI: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Same day?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: I was not arrested the day after the incident, I was only arrested in 1992.

CHAIRPERSON: What were your exact instructions in respect of askaris?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: It's to track them down where they are and possibly to stop them in their action, that means by the deed of killing them before they can get to the late Comrade Chris Hani.

CHAIRPERSON: And you say when that instruction was issued, it was designed to refer to askaris in the general terms, as you define it now.

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Yes, because we went specific, I asked Comrade Chris Hani that we will be now carrying weapons in the car and we are busy negotiation, what will be the consequences when we are confronted by police.  His first response is that not at any stage should I allow that unit to be arrested or assassinated because they are here on missions and they are here to observe whether the negotiation is going forward or what.  I have to protect them as a Commander.  Secondly, I must understand that within the forces of the government, that includes police, Special Units and askaris, turned MK cadres and what, they are out there to derail the negotiations, so in no certain circumstances should we play when we met them, we must know that they're armed and they're dangerous, they're out to kill.

CHAIRPERSON: As son as you saw or identified these people who came out of the police vehicle, you saw that they were askaris in the general terms, as you say and that's when you took the action.

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: You took the action as a result of instructions?

FUMANIKILE BOOI: Yes, I say that, that is one part of it.  I just want to say that from the moment I saw this van, a question mark come into my mind.  In the middle of the night there's a van parked, his lights off, next to a stadium in a dark corner.  Immediately when we pass, cars were in front of us but when our car passed they put on their lights and immediately follow us.  To my mind comes up that the first thing I thought, have these people been waiting for us all along and then that's why I took the decision of trying to make sure they are really following us or not but taking all these corners to make sure, have we been expected here.
And I further noticed, I said that when we turned into Ems Drive, one of the tactics which normally happen when you are being ambushed and assassinated, these units  won't assassinate in front of the public next to houses, they look for dark places, isolated places where nobody will be able to point a finger and say this one was there and that and it's exactly how it happened, they put us into a dark corner.  They could have stopped us long ago, we were not on high speed, but it was clear to me when I took the decision, that these people were out to kill us and if I didn't shoot it means all of us could have been dead today.