Human Rights Violation Hearings — Ermelo — 1997-05-22

RUSSELL ALLY: Now why were the police coming to your house in particular ?  Do you have any clue ?   Before that first tell us a bit about, what did you know about this Constable Scheepers.  Did you know anything about him or what had happened to him ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I knew nothing.  They knew that they will only attack the ANC houses whether you go to the tavern or not.  Scheepers was killed at the tavern and they knew all the ANC houses and they always intended to attack every ANC house.

RUSSELL ALLY: So when the police came to your house, did you know by, at that stage that Scheepers had been killed ?  Constable Scheepers ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, he was already killed then.  He was killed Sunday, no Saturday midnight and they did not investigate anything.  On Monday at night they came to my house.  Actually, every house of ANC.

RUSSELL ALLY: And what had you heard about this death of this Constable Scheepers.  You said he was killed the Saturday.  What was, what were people saying in the township about his death ?  Were people speaking about this ?  Were people saying anything ?  Did you hear anything ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: No.

RUSSELL ALLY: Nothing.  You didn't...  Do you have any knowledge as to why Constable Scheepers had been killed ?  Did you hear anything ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: No, I wouldn't know.  I don't know.

RUSSELL ALLY: Were things quite tense in the township before the Constable Scheepers was attacked and killed?  Was there tension between the police and the community ?  What was actually going on before this death of Constable Scheepers ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, there was violence already but it was stable on that week-end when Scheepers was killed.

RUSSELL ALLY: This violence you speak about, what was this violence about ?  Can you tell us a bit more ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: There were Black Cats which left Ermelo to Davel and were assaulting people along the way and will also harass people at taverns and in bar places and get back to Ermelo as well.  At time they will be in the location at the IFP leader's homes and chill there.

RUSSELL ALLY: And the police, what role were the police seen to be playing in this conflict ?  How did people perceive the police, given this conflict that was taking place which involved these so-called Black Cats and other members of the community who were supposed to be aligned to the ANC ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: The police were collaborating with the Black Cats and they were always following the police, the Black Cats.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you have evidence of that ?  Is this something you heard ?  Is this something that you saw  ?  Why do you say that the police were collaborating with the Black Cats ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I saw them.

RUSSELL ALLY: You saw members of the Blacks Cats being escorted by police to go to people's houses or what did you see ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: It would happen at times we'd find there's a conflict in the location.  Black Cats are fighting the ANC.  Instead of the police coming to calm down the situation, they will instead shoot in assist, and assisting the Black Cats fighting the ANC members and it will during the daylight and we will be watching all that.  This wasn't done underground.  We witnessed everything.

RUSSELL ALLY: On this day that Constable Scheepers was attacked, he was actually with another Constable, a Constable Nkondo.    Do you know  anything about  that ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I heard that he wasn't alone.  He was with another Constable.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now did this Constable Scheepers and the other Constable Nkondo, do you have any knowledge as to whether they were seen as collaborating with the Black Cats ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: You have, you heard this ?  You heard people speaking about...  Was he known in the township, Constable Scheepers ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, he was known in the location.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now when the police came to your house they wanted your brother, they wanted information about your brother, Dumi.  Is that correct ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, that's correct.

RUSSELL ALLY: Why were they looking for him ?  Was he, was he involved with any of the political organizations in the township ?  Was he part of the ANC ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: He wasn't in the location most of the time.  He will just visit once in a while but they knew that he was an ANC member.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was he an active ANC member ? Was he known to be quite involved in the activities of the ANC ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, he was an activist.

RUSSELL ALLY: Now during these raids that the police conducted after Constable Scheepers was killed, in fact the account that we have is that these two Constables, Constable Scheepers and Constable Nkondo who were both based at the Davel police station, that their car was surrounded by about plus/minus fifty people, that Constable Nkondo had actually fired into the crowd, that some people were wounded.  He managed to escape, Constable Nkondo, to go for help but Constable Scheepers was left behind and when the police returned they found Constable Scheepers' body lying on the road.  The police, after this event arrested people.  They arrested seven of the people who had been wounded during the shooting and also another two people after the vehicle of Constable Scheepers was found.  Was you brother, was he amongst any of these people who were arrested ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: He was !  What happened after that ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I won't elaborate on that one because I wasn't there.  As to what happened and what transpired I wouldn't furnish any information as far as that is concerned.  They kept pointing at people, even some who were not there were pointed at.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was there a court case ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: You mean regarding Scheepers ?

RUSSELL ALLY: Regarding the death of Scheepers, yes.

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes, there was.

RUSSELL ALLY: Was you brother, was he tried in this court case ?  Was he charged ?  Do you know ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: You mean Dumi ?

RUSSELL ALLY: Yes.

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes.

RUSSELL ALLY: What happened ?  What decision did the court come to ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: They were convicted.

RUSSELL ALLY: What was the sentence ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I wouldn't know because they were not given the same sentence, all of them.

RUSSELL ALLY: But Dumi's sentence, what was his sentence ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I don't remember.

RUSSELL ALLY: Where is he now, your brother Dumi ?  Is he still in jail or is he out of jail ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: He is still in jail.

RUSSELL ALLY: Do you know whether you brother applied for amnesty ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: No, I don't know.

RUSSELL ALLY: You don't know.  Thank you Nonhlanhla, that's all I'll ask of you.

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I have one more thing.  I would also like to add that I saw Bulamswazi.  That's the person I saw at the date we were assaulted.  This was a person by the name of Bulamswazi.

RUSSELL ALLY: Just repeat what you said.  I didn't actually understand.  You said you saw Bulamswazi ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: I'm saying that at the date we were assaulted the person that I recognized was Bulamswazi.

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.  That's in your statement.  We have that information.  Thank you.

MR LEWIN: Did you want to say something else Nonhlanhla ?

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Go ahead.

NONHLANHLA BLOSE: After I was assaulted by the police in 1992, my health is not that well.  Even at school I'm disturbed because I've some headaches.  I normally go to doctors and I have to stop seeing doctors because I didn't have money to pay for my medical treatment and I have problems with my headaches.

MR LEWIN: I'll just ask  the rest of the panel if they  have anything to ask.  Tom ?

THOMAS MANTHATA: How old were you at the time of your assault by the police in you house ?