Amnesty Hearings — Hammarsdale — 1998-08-12

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: There were three boys who were leaders of the UDF, Stembiso Nglovu, Sgangi Hlongwane but he's not my brother, we are not related, as well as Mashu Shando.  At that time these boys would actually remove children from classes, they did not allow teachers to beat kids at school.  At that time there were also people called Khondas.
	As time went on, we started fighting about what these boys were doing because there were now two groups, comrades and Teleweni belonging to the IFP.  At that time there was what was known as Teleweni and Inkatha.  Teleweni used to take part in the fighting and I was under this group, Teleweni, which was - leader was Zekele Nkethle.

MR WILLS: You've heard the evidence of Mr Khumalo yesterday when he indicated that the townships were actually divided up into various areas.  Can you comment on that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is the truth.

MR WILLS: You say in paragraph 15 that at some stage Zekele who I take it was your commander, you say in paragraph 15 that he was the leader of your group - Zekele Nkethle - and that he allocated a group of boys to work under your command as you were regarded as being very loyal and brave.  Is that correct?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is correct.

MR WILLS: And I know that you've listed those persons in paragraph 15.  Can you just tell the community who those persons were who worked under you?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Mashwane Sahadebe, Nkolisi and his nickname was Bokla Bokla Nglovu, Bhani Kambula, Zekele Skotso Langa, Bheki Sanebe, Peng and his nickname was Kabane;  Sepiwe - if I'm mistaken I think his surname was Ngubane but his nickname was Gita, Themba Makubane, Vano Sizwane, Silwane - he came from the Injange area, I do not know his surname.  Ngovela, Siphiso Chimbanza and his nickname was Totsi, Mandla Moshe and Marli Inemne, we used to call Nyogo.

MR WILLS: Yes.  Now you say that this group was put under your command and Zekele was in turn your leader, so as I understand it there was a Zekele Nkethle at the top, then there was you and then there were these other persons.  Can you tell us how that command structure actually worked in practice?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Zekele was the leader and I was directly under him, thereafter Bhani and thereafter Mashwanese.  It was structured in such a way that when we went to attack we would decide where we will attack.  Zekele would tell that whenever and wherever if you see a UDF member you must kill him or if we think of attacking a house we should make sure that we destroy it entirely.  Those were the instructions but sometimes we would get specific instructions to go kill somebody or attack somebody's house, that is how we worked with Zekele.

MR WILLS: You say that "we would decide where we were going to attack" what do you mean by that?  Who is the "we"?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: It would be myself and Zekele Nkethle when we attacked the UDF.

MR WILLS: So do I take it that you would have a discussion with Zekele Nkethle and then a decision would be made as regards to the area that you were going to attack?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And then you mentioned that you - or let me withdraw that - what was the main objective of your operations in those days?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: It was to fulfil the objectives of my organisation that the UDF should not exist and not be able to govern Mpumalanga.  We were supposed to eliminate the UDF, everybody, everybody belonging to the UDF was supposed to be eliminated at that time.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hlongwane, you said that you received this general instruction, if I may call it that, to kill any UDF person you saw.  How would you determine whether the person was a UDF person?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Sir, I was born and bred in Hammarsdale and we knew each other and we knew who belonged to what organisation, whether you were wearing a tee-shirt or not, but we knew each other very well.

SISI KHAMPEPE: May I interrupt Mr Wills?
	Flowing from what the Chairperson has just said I want to understand you clearly with regard to the evidence that you've just testified to.  Do I understand you properly if I say the general instructions that you have referred to was such that you on your own could not go out, identify a target for elimination and proceed on your own in the execution of a person identified for elimination without confirming with Zekele Nkethle who was the leader of your group?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes, that is what I was explaining.

SISI KHAMPEPE: So all targets were confirmed by Zekele Nkethle and you could not on your own accord proceed to eliminate any person that you had identified as a UDF member without having confirmed your identification or selection with Mr Nkethle?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Chairperson, it is so but because of the war situation I ended up taking decisions by myself.

SISI KHAMPEPE: You did that because you were like a ground commander of the group and Mr Nkethle was the overall commander of the group?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that was the reason why I did it.

SISI KHAMPEPE: And the other members of your group - could they also be capable of selecting targets and acting on the selected targets on their own?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No they would not.

MR WILLS: You say - we are going to deal with these specific incidents at a later stage in your evidence, but just generally, you say that you were in a position to take decisions on your own as the Committee Member indicated because you were a ground commander.  At any stage did your commander Zekele Nkethle ever reprimand you or tell you that you'd made the wrong decision or tell you that you couldn't make these decisions?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: No he has never reprimanded me, he always praised the work that I did.

MR WILLS: So do I take it that he in fact encouraged you with your operations even though he didn't give you specific commands at certain stages?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes because if I did not go to his house he would come to my house and pick me up.

MR WILLS: Now you say that you and your group were involved in attacks on UDF areas.  Is it also not so that at times your areas would be attacked my UDF persons?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: That is the truth.

MR WILLS: And you also say further in your affidavit to this extent you - I'm dealing with the bottom of page 135 and 136 -where yours was not the only IFP group that was operative in the area?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: Can you tell us about the other two groups briefly?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: The one other group used to work under Mrs Khula.  It comprised of Natsi Zonde, Bheki Makatini, Mose Makatini, Khetlo Ngubane and Donde Lana - that group belonged to Woody Glen.  The other group belonged to Willem Tunu whose leader was Daloxholo Lethuli.  This was comprised of Caprivians that Babagneni, Walther Intulani whose nickname was Lalabune as well as Nati Sebisi who is at present stationed at Indene as well as Thulani whose nickname was Babule, his surname is Ilalazi, he's a detective at Mandeni as well as Bongonsomi who is at present stationed at Mandene as well as Sosha Khumalo who gave evidence here yesterday, as well as Zwele David Dlamini whose nickname was Bagetsi, Stel Nglovu who resided in Pietermaritzburg as well as Mosisa Khulo - that was the Caprivian group which was at that group.  Some other people like Zong Bishabango were also present, belonging to the Caprivi group.  There was my group, the other one from Woody Glen and the third one from Caprivi.

MR WILLS: Now you say in paragraph 17 basically that all of these groups had the same objectives, can you see that?

ISRAEL HLONGWANE: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: And tell me, in the early stages of your fighting what were the weapons that you used?