Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-14

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  The time now about is five to 11.  Shall we take the adjournment now and then come back at 11.30 and then we will start with Mr Strydom?  Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
ON RESUMPTION

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Molete, there are other persons whose relatives were either killed or injured or have had their properties either damaged or stolen, who are in the same position as you are, who made statements to the police and to other persons.  It is necessary that those statements be studied by the legal representatives who are appearing on behalf of the applicants so that they have the opportunity, so that they can prepare for putting questions to you and the others who will be giving evidence.  As a result of that fact, it is therefore necessary that we adjourn these proceedings at this stage to enable those statements to be made available to the legal representatives of the applicants as well as the persons who will be called to give evidence next week.  We cannot finish with your evidence therefore today.  Do you understand that?

MATSELENG MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do.

CHAIRPERSON: You'll have to come back on Monday.

MATSELENG MIRIAM MOLETE: Yes I do understand.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.  Okay, it has occurred to me that because from time to time statements are being handed in, statements made to the police are being handed in whether once you've put together those statements of the persons that will be indicated to you as being witnesses to be called next week, if you
could put together a bundle of those statements paginated with the number indicating the various statements in it so that you can simply place before us that bundle of documents so that we don't have to have the statements scattered all over the place.  Could you do that?

MR BERGER: Chairperson, perhaps it will be appropriate at this stage for me to place on record the names of the people that we intend calling?  I can't say that it will be in this particular order but after Ms Molete we intend calling and this is in reference to a letter that we sent dated the 13th January 1999 to the TRC.  I assume my learned friends got copies of that letter from the TRC?  They did, I see they're acknowledging that, there were 24 names there and the 13 names that we intend to call are Mishak Jabulani Ramokonopi, that's number 4.

CHAIRPERSON: Do we have a copy of that letter?  No we don't, okay.

MR BERGER: I'll just read the name out, it's Mishak Jabulani Ramokonopi.   R-A-M-O-K-O-N-O-P-I.  He was number 4 on the list.
	Hilda Monokoane, M-O-N-O-K-O-A-N-E, that's number 21 on the list.
	Elsie Nomuhle Buwa - Buwa, on the list at number 5 was John Buwa but it should rather be Mrs Buwa and she's one of the names that we mentioned yesterday or before, some time before.
	Florina Dlamini, she was number 8 on the list.
	Emilie Mashaneni, she was number 12 on the list.
	Johannes Mbata, number 13 on the list.
	Klaas Matopi, number 15 on the list.
	Simon Moloi, number 16 on the list.
	Rebecca Motuang, number 17 on the list.
	Florence Molete, number 19 on the list.
	Anna Mbata, number 20 on the list.
	Diana Maneka, number 22 on the list.
I'm told I've exceeded the number.  Well I've only got one name and that is Mashudu Mashope.  Number 23 was Maria Mashope but it should be Mashudu Mashope.  
	With the two witnesses who have already testified and Ms Molete, that's a total of 16.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR BERGER: Thank you Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you.

MR DA SILVA: Mr Chairperson I just want to clarify one aspect.  Originally when my learned friends made this list available, I was under the impression that there might be witnesses called other, over and above the 24 witnesses.  Is it my learned friend's - the reading of these 16 witnesses, are they only calling these 16 witnesses, nobody else?

MR BERGER: Nobody else.  That doesn't mean that we won't ask for the Committee to call certain witnesses but from the victims' side, nobody else.

CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps you should put it this way, as matters stands now.

MR BERGER: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes because you may be instructed otherwise.

MR BERGER: Chairperson, perhaps I should not be that criptic.  You will see from Exhibit FF I think it was, the interview between Riaan Malan and Pedro Peens, we will be asking because we believe that Mr Peens' evidence is so crucial to such a crucial issue in these proceedings, we will be asking that he be called to give evidence, he is under subpoena and that is what I was referring to.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright, you've got the undertaking.

MR DA SILVA: Thank you Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes okay.  Is there any other matter that counsel wishes to place on record?  Alright.
	I should also indicate at this stage in view of the number of witnesses that we still have to go through, it may be necessary or it will be necessary next week to sit somewhat longer hours in order to make sure that we catch up with time that may have been lost in the past.
	Okay, very well, we will adjourn now until Monday at 10 o'clock.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS