Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-18

MR VISSER: Please continue?

GEN STEYN: After these vehicles had all come to a stop, Director Botha jumped out and he investigated the vehicle in which the suspects were.  He returned to me and told me that the occupants of the vehicle were dead and that they did not have any weapons with them.

MR VISSER: Did this surprise you?

GEN STEYN: Initially in the sense that our information was that they were armed earlier that evening when they were observed, yes I was.  After he informed me that there were no arms in the vehicle I decided that the arms according to our information which was still at the house where they had hidden earlier that we had to fetch these arms and plant it on these persons.

MR VISSER: So you drew the inference chiefly from the information which you received from Sittert that if the arms were not in the vehicle then it has to be at the house from which they departed?

GEN STEYN: Chairperson, earlier that evening we were told that they were at that house and they were armed and on that basis the fact that they were not in possession of arms and they departed from that house, I believed that the arms would still be at that house.

MR VISSER: Whose idea was it that the weapons had to be fetched and planted?

GEN STEYN: It was my idea.

MR VISSER: And did you discuss it with Botha?

GEN STEYN: Yes I discussed it with Botha.

MR VISSER: And did he concur?

GEN STEYN: Yes he did but it was my idea.

MR VISSER: What did you and Botha do then?

GEN STEYN: I then in the meanwhile I asked the reaction unit members and the police members to move away from the scene where they had all gathered.

MR VISSER: Why did you do that?

GEN STEYN: My idea was that if we received the weapons or had fetched the weapons with the purpose of planting them that as few as possible people be at the scene and as far as possible from the scene so that they would not observe that we were planting arms on these people.

MR VISSER: Did you tell Wasserman to fetch the arms?

GEN STEYN: Yes I did Chairperson.

MR VISSER: And did a Black member accompany him who knew where the house was?

GEN STEYN: Yes if I recall correctly or I can recall that definitely there was a Black member who was with him and Wasserman then returned.

MR VISSER: Please tell us what happened next?

GEN STEYN: Wasserman returned, I was the closest to the scene, I was not at the scene, I was closest to the scene, I was in a position to see him handing the weapons over to Director Botha and I accepted that those were the arms and Botha placed these arms in the vehicle of the deceased.  I was under the impression, Chairperson, that it was done in such a manner that other persons standing around would not observe it and it was also my objective.

MR VISSER: And in your research what did you attempt to do?

GEN STEYN: Chairperson, as to obtaining more information about this incident I attempted to obtain the post-mortem inquest in order to jog our memories as to whom made statements and who said what.  I was not successful in this endeavour.  On the 29th July 1987 Gail Wannenburg of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission said that the Commission had pulled the file from the Magistrate's Court and at a later stage Wannenburg said that the document had been handed over to the Attorney-General and with further enquiries nobody could assist us in tracking down this post-mortem document.

MR VISSER: Did you also ask your attorney, Mr Wagenaar, to attempt to track this document?

GEN STEYN: Yes I insisted upon it on many occasions and at one instance I was present when it was done but without success.

MR VISSER: Please continue with paragraph 28?

GEN STEYN: Chairperson, Director Botha falsely testified in the post-mortem inquest, he also gave false evidence with regard to the presence of arms in the vehicle and that shots were fired at us from that vehicle.  This was done with my knowledge and my approval.

MR VISSER: Why did you act in the manner that you did that evening?

GEN STEYN: Chairperson, I acted in the execution of my services and duties in the South African Police and I believed that such action was expected of me and this fell within the ambit of my expressed or implied authorisation.  I believed in the light of the pressure which was placed upon us in the security branch by the political leaders of the time and continually it was said to us that terrorists had to be wiped out in order to combat the revolution.  Chairperson, my action was aimed at protecting the State and the National Party and maintaining them.  In this whole process, Chairperson, I never received any reward and did not draw any personal advantage from this.

MR VISSER: Mr Steyn, suggestions have been made that a helicopter had apparently taken part in this pursuit that evening.  Firstly, do you recall that you had seen a helicopter at the scene during or directly after the pursuit?

GEN STEYN: No Chairperson.

MR VISSER: After these suggestions were made did you direct enquiries whether a helicopter could have been possible?

GEN STEYN: That is correct.

MR VISSER: Who made these enquiries?

GEN STEYN: I enquired from a member of the then reaction unit who still remains in Durban.

MR VISSER: And were you informed that the reaction unit did have a helicopter to their availability at some stage?

GEN STEYN: No Chairperson, I was informed to the contrary.

MR VISSER: What were you informed?

GEN STEYN: Chairperson, I was informed that there was no helicopter with the police in Durban at that stage.

MR VISSER: Mr Steyn you have told me that you have something on your mind to say about the struggle of the past and your position and the position of the men under you.  Would you like to use this opportunity to do so?

GEN STEYN: Yes Chairperson.  Chairperson, the South African Police and specifically the Security Branch was under immense pressure because as it was commonly known because of the undeclared war which reigned at that time, bombs went off, bridges were blown up, railway lines were blown up, limpet mines exploded in shopping centres.  I was at the scene of a bomb where people had been blown apart, three or four killed and 96 injured, I was at several scenes where police officers had been murdered in this process of terror and this necessitated us to more and more think that there was one way in fighting this war with all our means and it was also voiced by the politicians from their platforms.  We would chase or hunt terrorists right throughout Africa and we would not allow the ANC to win this war, we were conditioned and we believed that we had to do everything in our power to prevent that what the politicians had advocated that that become true.

MR VISSER: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: Cross-examination?

MR WEBSTER: Are you now Mr Steyn?

GEN STEYN: I'm General Steyn.

MR WEBSTER: Still General Steyn?

GEN STEYN: That's right.

MR WEBSTER: Are you still in the force?

GEN STEYN: No but I remain with the title of General.

MR WEBSTER: You don't mind that I call you Mr Steyn or would you prefer that I call you General Steyn.

CHAIRPERSON: Just call him General and get done with it.

MR WEBSTER: I'll call him General.

CHAIRPERSON: If you mind I'll call you General as well.

MR WEBSTER: I don't mind.

MR WEBSTER: General, I've listened to the last part of your evidence.  Is it correct if I say that the interpretation is that all these sentiments that you have expressed are sentiments which you think were believed by the Special Branch?

GEN STEYN: That is right, Chairperson.

MR WEBSTER: And not necessarily the department of the Police as a whole?

GEN STEYN: I would say specifically the security branch who were tasked with acts of terror.

MR WEBSTER: It would not necessarily have been the sentiments of members of the National Defence Force?