Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-13

CHAIRPERSON: We thank Revd Ngacha.  Thank you for opening for us in prayer.  As we are about to listen to the Border Region witnesses.  Ms Maya will give us today's order.

INTERPRETER: The speaker's mike is not on.

MS MAYA: Honourable Presiding Commissioner, I present to you this morning a list of all witnesses who have applied to appear before the Human Rights Violations Committee of the Truth and Reconciliation Committee in the order in which they will appear.
 We are covering today four magisterial districts which are King William's Town, Stutterheim, Dimbaza and Peelton.
 I will first read out the name of the witness who will be testifying, then the name of the victim, then the nature of the violation, the area in which in occurred or the area from which the people come and the year during which the violation occurred.
 First on our list we have Nomzi Vivie Guzana,  about Onward Guzana, murdered in King William's Town in 1991.   Nomafakathi Sebe, about Charles Sebe, murdered in King William's Town in 1991.  Lizo Nabo, about himself, severe ill-treatment in King William's Town in 1991; Thyline Nene, about Steven Nene, tortured in King William's Town in 1990; Nonkululeko Gladys Madikane, about Carrington Mcoseleli Madikane, murdered in King William's Town in 1992; Notakumani Lena Nana, about Desmond Nana, murdered in Stutterheim in 1986;  Mvuzo Bazi, about himself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1985;  Neliswa Nonhunha Dyantyi Busika about herself and her daughter, severe ill-treatment in Stutterheim in 1985 up to 1986; Nodida Jane Zamkana, about herself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1986;  Khayalethu Hela, about himself, attempted murder in Stutterheim in 1985; Koko Godana about Joseph Mzingaye Godana, murdered in Stutterheim in 1986;  Nobendiba Nolifisi Xhalisile, about herself, severe ill-treatment in Stutterheim in 1985;  Wonke Wthiel Maqubela, about himself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1985; Vuyani Tweni, about himself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1986; Wayliese Peter, about himself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1986;  Mzwabantu Ngxokela, about himself, tortured in Stutterheim in 1987;  Mateyisi Ndondo, about Mbulelo Ndondo, murdered in Stutterheim in 1985;  Mthunzi Wellington Tyakume, about Dumalisile Sydney Tyakume, murdered in Dimbaza in 1977;  Boyce Mtyobile, about himself, severe ill-treatment in Peelton, 1990 up to 1992;  Meyile Malcomeso Siwayi, about himself, severe ill-treatment in Peelton in 1991;  Stanley Rhojz about himself, severe ill-treatment in King William's Town in 1992.  That is our list, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  We are going to give reverence to those who passed away.  Won't we all please get up for a moment of silence.
 We remember today Onward Guzana, Charles Sebe, Carrington Mcoseleli Madikane, Desmond Nana, Joseph Mzingaye Gadana, Mbulelo Ndondo, Dumalisile Sydney Tyakume.  May they rest in peace Lord, and please give them eternal life, Amen.
 We requested that Mr  Ngonyama give us a brief political comment, however, he is not here yet, so we are going to carry on with our witnesses.  Can Nomzi Vivie Guzana and Nomafakathi Sebe come forward please.
 Mrs Guzana and Mrs Sebe, we welcome you here today before the Commission.  We are going to request that Revd Xundu swear you in.

NOMZI VIVIE GUZANA: (sworn states)

NOMAFAKATHI SEBE: (sworn states)

REV XUNDU: Mr Chairperson, they have been properly sworn in.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Ntsiki Sandi will lead evidence on behalf of the Commission.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson.  Mrs Guzana and Mrs sebe, as I look at your statements before us, you are going to speak on behalf of your husbands whose names were already mentioned.
 They were murdered in January 1991.  This happened between Stutterheim and King William's Town.  Is that so, Ma'am?
 You agreed that it is Mrs Guzana who will give most of the evidence, is that so?

NOMZI VIVIE GUZANA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Guzana, before you start, you said that you asked for extra minutes, because your evidence is quite long.   Where are you going to start, are you going to start when these gentlemen were in the Transkei before they came here or are you going to start before they went to Transkei?

NOMZI VIVIE GUZANA: I am going to start from the time before they went to Transkei.

ADV SANDI: Mrs Guzana, can we proceed then?

NOMZI VIVIE GUZANA: I would like first to express my gratitude to the Commission as a whole for allowing us this opportunity to speak for the first time because in the beginning things were said about my husband and Mr Sebe and we could not contest them, we were never given the opportunity, so our being allowed to be here has restored our status as citizens of this country.
 I am going to start in 1990, the last Thursday before the Easter Weekend, when my husband was called to the official residence of Brigadier Gqozo.
 I don't know what they discussed, but in the evening, actually at night, that Thursday, his bodyguards came to the house that we were occupying to take away his arms, saying they were afraid that he may kill himself.
 Then I said they would rather give another reason because my husband had never been suicidal.  When he came back, he told me of a quarrel between them, a disagreement because he was - he had suggested that the people who had been detained on the day of the coup, should be charged or released.
 And they disagreed over that.  Then when we woke up the following morning, our telephone line had been cut.  We were not allowed to go out of the gate.  At about ten that Friday, Good Friday morning, Brigadier Gqozo's bodyguard  and the Commander General of the Police Force arrived at our house.  They had brought a resignation form which my husband had either to sign or to accept being arrested.
 He chose to be arrested and they took him away.  Thirty minutes later, they brought him back, he said he had been taken to the parliamentary buildings but before they could get in, they stopped outside and explained to him that if he chose a resignation, at least he would have the opportunity of planning his life.
 But ...

ADV SANDI: Before I disturb you, did they give reasons for having arrested him?