Amnesty Hearings — Cape Town — UNKNOWN

MR BOOYENS: Sorry, is your Lordship finished?
	Why did you think that?

JIMMY MBANE: That's what came to my mind.

MR BOOYENS: It was just your own idea.
	But now let's return to the question that you still haven't answered.  Were you as a member of the group enthusiastic about this or did you like the idea of this attack of the police kombi.  That's the answer I have been trying to get out of you.  You haven't been answering that question.

JIMMY MBANE: I was happy because I thought they were going to arrest these people and I had been in Cape Town for quite a long time.  I was happy that it was time for me to go back home.

MR BOOYENS: So, did you and Bellingan and the others plan the operation or did only you and Maluleka and Rasta plan the operation.  Or did some of the ideas that you put in, did that come from Bellingan?  Or was it only Rasta and Maluleka?

JIMMY MBANE: I last saw Bellingan when I was showing him the place where the whole thing would take place.  It was the last time I saw Bellingan.

MR BOOYENS: Now when was that?

JIMMY MBANE: The day before the incident.

MR BOOYENS: Sunday.

JIMMY MBANE: I can't remember the day.  But we went there using another kombi that I don't know and I went there to show them the place.

MR BOOYENS: By then your plans had been made:  how the attack was going to take place.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: With whom.  Can you please repeat the question.

MR BOOYENS: Mr Mbane, were your plans...the group's plans how to attack the police kombi by then made and finalised?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, that's correct.

MR BOOYENS: And did you inform Bellingan exactly what you were going to do?

JIMMY MBANE: I told him.

MR BOOYENS: Did you tell him you were going to bury some firearms in the bush?

JIMMY MBANE: I didn't tell him that.

MR BOOYENS: Why not?

JIMMY MBANE: Because I only saw Bellingan the day before the incident.  By that time, we hadn't buried the firearms in the bush, because the other people refused to alight from the vehicle carrying arms.  They decided that we should go and bury the firearms in the bush, and Bellingan didn't know anything about that.

MR BOOYENS: No, but you planned to bury the firearms, although they were not buried, your plans were made.  Your plans were finalised.  You told me that.  So why didn't you tell Bellingan you are going to bury some of the firearms in the bush.  And say we'll bury it there, and then he can put up some people to ambush them there.

JIMMY MBANE: During our plan, the idea of burying these guns was not decided upon.

MR BOOYENS: So that was a last minute change of plan?

JIMMY MBANE: That's right.

MR BOOYENS: But now, did you make any effort to contact Bellingan on the telephone and tell him listen, they've changed the plan and we are now going to bury some guns, that they can ambush them there?

JIMMY MBANE: No, I never tried to do that.

MR BOOYENS: Why not?

JIMMY MBANE: There was minimum time.

MR BOOYENS: Well, you said you never tried to do it.  You didn't even try.

JIMMY MBANE: We decided this at night to put these firearms there and I was with Belletjies that morning.

MR BOOYENS: But I think you told us in your evidence in chief that you could travel as you like.  So why didn't you do that.

JIMMY MBANE: Maybe you are not aware. When an operation has already been planned, you don't go in and out in the last minute of the operation.  According to my knowledge, that is not done.  You stay stable.

MR BOOYENS: Now, let us once again return to the question that I still haven't had an answer from.
	Your group planned to attack the police kombi.  That police kombi was going to come through there.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: As far as you knew that kombi was still going to be there the next morning.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: And if your plan came off, your group were going to fire and shoot at policemen.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.  There was going to be cross firing.

MR BOOYENS: And your group might kill those policemen.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.  That was possible.

MR BOOYENS: You did nothing at all to try and safeguard those other policemen by dropping the people off at the wrong points or something.
	As far as you were concerned, you were setting them up for a real ambush where they could kill the policemen.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: That is why I went to tell Liebenberg and Belletjies well before time.

MR BOOYENS: And apart from the hiding of the firearms, did you give them your full plan how you were going to ambush the people?

JIMMY MBANE: As I have already said, your honour we planned this all of us and during the last minutes, that's when we took the decision to go and bury the other stuff at night and we rode off after doing that.

MR BOOYENS: So when was the final plan how your group was going to ambush the police kombi made?
	Was that only made on the Sunday night?

JIMMY MBANE: That's right.

MR BOOYENS: Was it then decided that you would drop people at various points.  They would get up at various points, etc.

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Now, did you drop some of the...the police kombi that you were supposed to ambush was coming across the bridge over the N2.  Is that correct?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Now, did you drop off some of your men there? Because you travelled in the direction of the bridge I think...

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, I dropped them there.

MR BOOYENS: Those were the ones with the pistols.  Is that correct?

JIMMY MBANE: That's correct.

MR BOOYENS: Was this also something that you decided upon on Sunday night?

JIMMY MBANE: Everything was finalised on Sunday night.

MR BOOYENS: So your earlier statement that the plans for the ambush were finalised before you spoke to Bellingan the previous days was incorrect.

JIMMY MBANE: I met Bellingan on Sunday, but the final arrangements were made on Sunday night and that is when we decided on a few changes and I didn't have sufficient time to go and notify Bellingan.

MR BOOYENS: So Bellingan didn't know at all what your plan was.  Nobody in the police knew what your plan was. They knew there was going to be an attack, but they had not details of it.  Is that right?

JIMMY MBANE: I told you honour that I told Bellingan and Belletjies and I showed them the spot where everything was supposed to take place.  So obviously they were aware of the attack.

MR BOOYENS: Now the three of you in the vehicle with the AK47's.  What were you going to do?

JIMMY MBANE: Everybody was going to get off and occupy their specified positions.

MR BOOYENS: Including you and Maluleka?

JIMMY MBANE: Yes, including us.	But we knew that we were to be arrested.

MR BOOYENS: But, if the arrest didn't come off were you going to attack that police kombi?

JIMMY MBANE: That I don't know.  The only thing I knew was that these people were around because when we approached I saw a white kombi and I identified it.  I knew it.

MR BOOYENS: You see my problem with your statement here is simply the following.
	That you knew you were going to be arrested.  But people were dropped in various points.  How were the police to know who to arrest?

JIMMY MBANE: They have been lying in a wait a long time.  They knew the time that it was going to happen between 7:00 and a quarter past.  They were deployed well on time because when I went past I saw the kombi parked there.
	And that's when I suspected that they must be all over the place.

MR BOOYENS: So, you saw a kombi parked there.
	Was that the only indication you saw of police presence?

JIMMY MBANE: That's right.  Because I know that kombi.  It's ours.

MR BOOYENS: You didn't know whether there were any policemen at the point, higher up near the bridge over the N2 where you dropped the men with the handguns.
	Is that right?