Human Rights Violation Hearings — Queenstown — 1996-07-23

EB OLIPHANT: Yes, there were people that were arrested after my husband's death, but they were never held in custody because the day that they were arrested, there were members of the ADM who phoned Gqozo and Gqozo sent a message that these people must be released immediately.
 And there was stories that there was a helicopter circling the area and that these people must continue with their work.

MS MAYA: So all in all, these people who were arrested, were released without being charged at all?

EB OLIPHANT: They were released but the ANC did not allow, want to allow this, the ANC tried by all means that these people should be arrested and prosecuted.
 And they were prosecuted and in all that time, when all this happened, I was admitted to hospital for one week and when I was discharged, the Superintendent had sent transport to fetch the children and we went to stay at Sada at an aunt's place and while all this was happening, I was no longer at Tendergate, I left them on the 26th and I never went back.

MS MAYA: What happened after these people, the trial was conducted at court - were they found guilty?

EB OLIPHANT: One person pleaded guilty and that was Mr Lumko, he pleaded guilty to shooting him and he was also a member of the ADM.

MS MAYA: In your statement, there are two Mr Lumko's to
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whom you refer.

EB OLIPHANT: Yes, that is so.  There is Mr Lumko the son of the man who pleaded guilty to the shooting and there is this Mr Lumko who is a soldier and he is the son of this man who said the day before this all happened, I think it was a month or two before this happened, they came to my house, what made me ask how this all happened was, because my husband did not want to tell me everything.
 I saw cracks somewhere near the kitchen and I asked what had happened and they said that soldiers had come during the course of the night and knocked and they had seen that it was the soldiers' truck and apparently they knocked and knocked and he said that he heard Bennie Lumko's voice saying that they should kick in the door.
 They kicked in the door and he said that after they had kicked in the door, he pretended as though he had just woken up and when they came in, Bennie Lumko asked him why don't you open and he said, no, I was sleeping, I went to bed with a headache and I then fell asleep.
 They wanted to know where the children were.  My children were not sleeping at home at that stage and my husband said my children are there, and they said come, let's go to the children.
 They then took him to the children and all the time they were telling him that you Mr Oliphant, and your family, we are going to shoot you one by one.
 And they then went to my parental home, there was an old women.  I live with, my parents are no longer alive, my aunt lives there.  When they got there, the children were told to wake up.
 My children was still very small then.  I do not know 
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what his intentions were when he said that they should go to the children and when he got there and saw how small they were, he decided to abandon that and he took my husband again and they left.

MS MAYA: How old were your children?

EB OLIPHANT: Tanda was nine years old.  He was the youngest one.  Thembinqozi was 15, Andile was 18 then.

MS MAYA: Did you people know Bennie Lumko before?

EB OLIPHANT: Yes, we knew him very well, so much so that before he was a very good friend of my husband's, while he was still a school child because we all used to go to church together and my husband was their choir master.

MS MAYA: Please proceed.  Let us go back to the day of the 27th of August.

EB OLIPHANT: On the 27th of August, after they had shot him, he was taken to hospital and Dr Fernandez is the one who certified him dead and he could see that the person who shot him, was not someone learning to shoot, but it was a person that was good at shooting.
 He was taken by the police to the mortuary, to the State Mortuary here in Queenstown.

MS MAYA: I am just trying to find out, because according to your statement you are complaining that Lumko senior was charged with your husband's death, why is that?

EB OLIPHANT: Because he was still old, he was old by then.

MS MAYA: But he was found guilty?

EB OLIPHANT: Yes, he was found guilty.

MS MAYA: And until when did he stay in jail?

EB OLIPHANT: He did not stay in jail for very long.

MS MAYA: Why not?

EB OLIPHANT: A message came from Gqozo when he was sent to
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Middeldrift that he must be released and they never went to Tendergate, even now, they don't stay in Tendergate.

MS MAYA: ; Do you know where they stay?

EB OLIPHANT: No, I don't know.

MS MAYA: There is somebody by the name of Mr Mrola that you speak about in your statement, who is he?

EB OLIPHANT: Mrola was one of the members of the ADM as well who was with these people.

MS MAYA: Was he going to be a witness or what happened?

EB OLIPHANT: He was still very young then, but then it was found that he knows quite a lot according to what I hear, that is and according to all the knowledge that he had, and the information that he was giving to the people about what happened that night, he knew quite a lot about what happened that evening.
 It was found that the ANC had to try by all means to take him out of Tendergate, because it was quite clear that he was going to be harassed by people of the ADM.
 And apparently he was taken away and he was taken by Mr Smith, who is an attorney is Cape Town and he went to stay by him.
 And when he was in Cape Town, he died there and nobody knows what happened.  He disappeared rather and nobody knows there he is.

MS MAYA: And up till now nobody knows where he is?

EB OLIPHANT: That is right.

MS MAYA: I would like you to just go back a bit please so that we can assure that there is nothing that we have forgotten to cover.  How old are your children now?

EB OLIPHANT: My children are old now, I mean one has even been initiated.
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MS MAYA: Are there any at school?

EB OLIPHANT: Mbulele has stopped attending school.  The two that are still at school are Andile and Thembinqozi.

MS MAYA: What standards are they?

EB OLIPHANT: They are in standards 10 and 7 respectively.

MS MAYA: Is there anything else that you would like to add before I ask you what your wish is from the Truth Commission, what you would like the Truth Commission to do for you?

EB OLIPHANT: I would like to make sure, even though I cannot say it myself because I know that my husband was really not shot by Mr Lumko, I would like this to be investigated by Bennie Lumko, that the day he came to my house and even when he mentioned that we should be shot one by one, what he meant by that.
 And also that the Commission should try to establish that I know that it is not Mr Lumko that shot my husband, I do not accept that.

MS MAYA: Thank you very much, Ms Oliphant.  I would like to hand you back to the Chairperson in case he has any more questions.

BONGANI FINCA: Are there any questions?

REV XUNDU: Ma'am, I would like to ask you is Mr Bennie Lumko still alive?

EB OLIPHANT: Yes, he is still alive, he is still working, he is still a soldier.

REV XUNDU: Where does he work?

EB OLIPHANT: I don't know where he works now, but he is still a soldier.

REV XUNDU: We will try and investigate this matter and it will assist us in investigating this matter.  Thank you
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very much.