Human Rights Violation Hearings — Pollsmoor — 1997-02-17

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: Thank you I am going to try and round up now and give my colleagues a chance to ask their questions.  When Rasta lay there - was he - did someone certify him dead?

MR STERRENBERG: He was later removed by the ambulance personnel after the explosives expert had turned him over.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So no-one came to see whether he - you know - because he lay - he was obviously wounded - there was no effort to see whether he could be perhaps quickly taken to hospital - did that happen?

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am not that I recall.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: So at that point you were not commanded to see whether people could still be taken to hospital and could benefit from some kind of treatment.

MR STERRENBERG: No ma'am shortly after the incident - medics did arrive at the scene but what their - what their dealing were, I don't know.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: You don't know - I am really asking because I have this picture of you here it's actually a nice picture of you smiling standing over Rasta - and at the back there far at the back there - because there are ambulances which are sort of deployed and you standing with your smiled face over Rasta.
 And I just wondered whether you know - how ambulances could be standing far in the background with a man lying there and - with you.

MR STERRENBERG: Ma'am as you say the photo is a still photograph at one time medics were at the scene - as far as the smile is concerned it could possibly just be nervous reaction to that incident - because it was not a pleasant incident that occurred.

MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA: That's quite a lightning to see that sometimes people smile - I think you right though - people do when they nervous smile.  But I'll just end here and give over to my colleagues to continue questioning.  Thank you very much Mr Sterrenberg.

MR STERRENBERG: Thank you ma'am.

UNKNOWN: Thank you Ms Gobodo-Madikizela.  Any members of the panel - Mary - advocate Potgieter.

ADV POTGIETER: Thank you Chairperson.  Mr Sterrenberg you are a senior Superintendent.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And you are the official spokesperson for the police in the Western Cape is that correct.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir, I am the provincial communications officer.

ADV POTGIETER: Now you seem to have been doing like some of your colleagues who were involved in this incident - some special services - spesiale dienste in the old South African Police.  Starting in 1971 when you were apparently doing border duty in the Caprivi.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: So you seem to have a long background of this sort of conflict - I mean you were not a bobby on the beat - you seemed to have been through the mill if I may put it that way.

MR STERRENBERG: On the contrary you are correct sir, I had been through the mill, I was a bobby on the beat for many years, I have service from 1965 - border duty was not a choice - we were ordered to go and when our numbers came up it was - there was no choice really we were ordered to do border duty, that was what you had to do.

ADV POTGIETER: You - you in fact done two stints of border duty in the Caprivi it says.

MR STERRENBERG: That is - that is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And then it seems that you have been involved in the Rhodesian War.

MR STERRENBERG: Correct sir - also as a South African policeman seconded to Rhodesia over which I also had no control.

ADV POTGIETER: So you were fighting in Rhodesia that's the point.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And you seemed to have been involved in - in 1988 it seems then it was still known as Natal - the present KwaZulu Natal.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct to sir.

ADV POTGIETER: In the unrest situation there.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct yes sir, I was sent there as a video camera operator to assist in recording crime scenes.

ADV POTGIETER: And you seemed to have been fairly effective because it appears that you had been given quite a number  of decorations.

MR STERRENBERG: Merely all service decorations sir.

ADV POTGIETER: You were given some decorations it seemed in 1971 for combating terrorism.

MR STERRENBERG: Any member of the South African Police serving a period of 90 days in any operational area as described in those years qualified for that decoration.

ADV POTGIETER: And you did.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And then perhaps you can help me - you have some other - it seems other decorations  but those don't seem to be quite relevant.

MR STERRENBERG: Ja ten years good service medal - twenty year good service medal and a thirty year good service medal.

ADV POTGIETER: That's quite correct.  But perhaps you can explain what this means it's in Afrikaans - it appears that you have been awarded in 1984 a balkie vir bekamping van terrorisme.

MR STERRENBERG: That's correct sir, every subsequent period of 30 days served in an operational area - you were [indistinct] to a second medal or decoration, but that was in the form of a bar to the medal itself.

ADV POTGIETER: So this was a - this was a bar for having - having successfully been deployed in combating terrorism.

MR STERRENBERG: Not successfully but deployed in insurgency operations for a second period of three months yes.

ADV POTGIETER: Oh! you say not successfully.

MR STERRENBERG: Well [intervention]

ADV POTGIETER: Well you get a declaration even if you not effected in the old days.

MR STERRENBERG: Successfully in that I completed the 30 day period sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And then [intervention]

MR STERRENBERG: Sorry the 90 day period sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And then it seems as if you have been awarded another - another balkie - for combating terrorism in 1989.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: After this incident.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir.

ADV POTGIETER: So - but I think we agree you seem to have been active in combating terrorism.

MR STERRENBERG: As I am sure most of my colleagues in the South African Police were at that time sir.

ADV POTGIETER: Have you been involved in Koevoet?

MR STERRENBERG: I had performed - I am not a member of Koevoet but I was a gunsmith who performed duty at Oshakati servicing weapons of members performing border duties.

ADV POTGIETER: So you've been support service - you've rendered support services to Koevoet.

MR STERRENBERG: Logistical support for members performing border duties.

ADV POTGIETER: Now as you know we have heard some previous testimony about this particular incident and it is common cause - it is common knowledge at this stage as the media has reported and your Council has referred to before you testified that this operation had a Vlakplaas involvement.

MR STERRENBERG: I am aware of that sir.

ADV POTGIETER: And were you aware of that the morning of this operation?

MR STERRENBERG: No sir.  I was aware that there was a member from Security Branch Head Office that was present - at that time I didn't know about any Vlakplaas or Vlakplaas connections.

ADV POTGIETER: Did you know about Vlakplaas at all at that stage.

MR STERRENBERG: Not at that time sir, the only time I became aware of the Vlakplaas as such - was after revelations were made in the media by operatives from that place.

ADV POTGIETER: So in spite of your service in combating terrorism and having been decorated on more than one occasion - you tell us that you had no idea that there was ever such a place as Vlakplaas in 1986 when you engaged in this operation.

MR STERRENBERG: That is correct sir - you must realise that I was a uniform policeman for my entire career.  The Security Branch was a small section of the South African Police Service who operated on a need to know basis - I was a member of the Uniform Branch and was required on a number of occasions to perform duties at various places in South Africa.