Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — UNKNOWN

<UNKNOWN>: Mr Coetzee I would just like to refer you at this stage to matters No 1, 7, 8 and 12 of your application.  You are aware that I had a discussion with you on these issues previously?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: These incidents are dealt with in both your application as well as in your manuscript, is that correct?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Before the hearing today you have had occasion to read both the content of the manuscript and the content of your application insofar as it relates to these incidents?

ANSWER: Yes I did Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: They are the bombing in Mnzini where two people died; the conspiracy to murder a Swazi detainee who is
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unknown to you, is that correct?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: As well as the conspiracy to kill Mr Marius Schoon of the ANC, is that correct?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: And an incident where a bomb was placed in the post office box of Mnzini?

ANSWER: That's correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: In this latter incident you were not personally involved but you knew of the bomb being placed there beforehand is that correct?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Did you do anything to prevent any harm to the target?

ANSWER: Not at all Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Could you just briefly explain the, do you accept that there are some differences as far as facts and dates are concerned between the manuscript and your application?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Can you just briefly explain to the Committee the origin of the manuscript, how it was written and where it was written and from what sources the facts stated therein were obtained?

ANSWER: Mr Chairman this manuscript was prepared with the intention in Zambia, with the help of my brother, two weeks before the Harms Commission which commenced in London on 23 April 1990, hopefully to complete it and get it printed in a book form on memory only, I had no access to documents or colleagues, former colleagues that I could consult with, and then hand it up as my evidence in the Harms Commission
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saying that is my story and I am prepared to answer questions on it.   We did not succeed in completing it, we only came to a certain page, I think, up until page 125 because the lawyers for Human Rights who made date appointments for the Harms Commission in London did not want to listen to me, did not know what I was up against, and we were forced on to the plane to London and I could not succeed in completing this document.   I only completed it after the Harms Commission in London.

<UNKNOWN>: How long after you had left the country did you work on that document?

ANSWER: The date on it is 21 April in the beginning, the introduction Mr Chairman I might just refer in the preface on page 6 and 7, the Committee would get the first long piece, signed or printed by my brother Ben Coetzee, dated 21 April 1990, that was the Saturday morning that we landed in London for the Harms Commission to commence on the Monday 23.   I completed it and returned to Zambia on 13 May 1990, after the Harms Commission, when I signed it, dated it and handed several copies out to the ANC and advocates in preparing for other cases, it was never altered, changed.  I think if the Committee might just look at the second part of the preface, where it specifically said, explained how several factors prevented my brother, that's now referring to me, written by my brother Ben
"..from producing a reasonable, spell-checked document in Lusaka and London.   Neither of us are good at spelling, we had precious little time, a temperamental computer and a primitive word-processing package.   I have now converted the electronic text to a more modern word-processing
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document.   This enabled me to use a different front(?), a variety of letter sizes, bold faces and paragraph justification.   I also corrected the bulk of the numerous spelling errors but did not as much as touch the original grammar, idiom choice of words or sentence construction for fear of changing the meaning in any way."
That was done in 1994.

<UNKNOWN>: As far as your involvement in the incidents are concerned, as far as the core of these offences are concerned, in other words the fact that somebody was killed, the fact that somebody was kidnapped that you were involved to some extent, would you say that the manuscript is at least as far as that is concerned, an accurate reflection?

ANSWER: Absolutely Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: After that manuscript, the more accurate dating of matters and the filling in of detail, where did your knowledge of that emanate from?

ANSWER: Mr Chairman, resulting from documents that were submitted and handed up by the police, in the Harms Commission, the McNally Commission and also in the Mnenge docket, murder docket that was made available to us.

<UNKNOWN>: I would assume that would also include the Lotta Neethling Vryeweekblad case where you testified?

ANSWER: That is correct Mr Chairman.

<UNKNOWN>: Do you now under oath confirm, subject to these qualifications, the content of your manuscript and your application in respect of these incidents that I've mentioned?

ANSWER: I so do Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JANSEN

<UNKNOWN>: /...
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MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Mr Chairman, in respect of matter No 8 that is being dealt with now.  I just want to hand up a letter from the attorney of Willem Schoon, that is in respect of matter No 8, from the lawyer responding to the form 2, just for completeness sake.

CHAIRPERSON: This is the attempted murder of Comrade A.  Matter No 8.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: No, Mr Chairman, Marius Schoon.

CHAIRPERSON: This will be EXHIBIT M.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: I may  perhaps further add relevant to the letter, Mr Chairman, that after receiving the letter I got in touch with Mr Wagner, the attorney, the author of that letter, and he indicated to me that he can only come at the end of the hearings to make submissions that will be in writing and he will read this into the mike.  He need not come and listen to all the evidence.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We now proceed to deal with Chikalanga.

MR JANSEN: Yes, Mr Chairman.

JUDGE WILSON: This letter, does it relate to Marius Schoon?  He refers to Mr W F Schoon, who is involved in 10 incidents by D J Coetzee.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is so.  W F Schoon is Willem Schoon, who was a security police officer.

JUDGE WILSON: So it is written on behalf of him, not on behalf of Marius Schoon.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: Marius Schoon was the victim in the incident by Willem Schoon.

JUDGE WILSON: And the letter has nothing to do with his attorney.  This is an interested party's letter.

MOKOTEDI MPSHE: That is correct.   Perhaps on that note
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Mr Chairman, the victim Marius Schoon was also served with the document, form 2, and I had a talk with him on 11 December 1996 and he said he is not prepared to come, he does not want to come, but he will consult with his attorney and come back to me, which then did not happen.  On Friday last in Cape Town I phoned his house once more but I did not find him, I found the son, who then provided me with the full home address and that's when I sent the form 2.

CHAIRPERSON: That will all be on the record.  Thank you, Mr Mpshe.

MR JANSEN: Mr Chairman, if I could then call Mr David Chikalanga to continue his evidence.

UNKNOWN: s u o

MR JANSEN: It is item No 6 in the application of Mr Chikalanga.  It starts on the typed page 9 at the bottom thereof, paginated page 12.
	Mr Chikalanga, I assume you recall the incident where you were involved in the purchase of diamonds together with two of your colleagues in Lesotho, and where the person that sold you the diamonds was eventually killed.

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is true.