Amnesty Hearings — Pretoria — UNKNOWN

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I will read paragraph 18.
"The  handing-over of the list plus receiving it back from Arthur Kemp took place at the end of 1992.  The list had to be abridged and Lewis assumed that Kemp had been unable to trace the others.
		As far as Lewis is able to remember, he and Kuba at the end of 1992 discussed the list.  They together discussed the importance of the people contained in the list and they prioritised the list of people.  The discussions were held over a period and only where Lewis and Kuba were together, alone, Kuba was not aware of the fact that names such as inter alia Karin Breynardt had been included with the rest in order to mislead people in the process of tracing addresses.
		According to Lewis, they did not know why they were there and who they were."

MR PRINSLOO: Comment on that information Mr Derby-Lewis?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, it is not correct except for one sentence where it was mentioned that the discussions were held over a period and only where Lewis and Kuba were alone and that we had held any discussions on our own so that we would not inform our wives of what was going on.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, you refer to the typed version of this document.  Now if you refer to the handwritten document, Mr Chairman, this starts on page 1 and continues through to page 17, is it correct that you did not at all sign this document or had it for inspection?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, this document is not even in my handwriting.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know whose handwriting it is?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No, I don't have any idea and I see there is another list.

MR PRINSLOO: It is the same list.  You had a look at the list in the written document which is also contained in the typed document?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, but this document I have never seen.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know when this document was prepared?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No, Sir, I don't know.  I don't know this document.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, with reference to your handwritten document which you have already looked at, it is in bundle R4 Honourable Chair, page 27 onwards.  If you look at page 27 onwards, did you sign it Mr Derby-Lewis?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, the note at the bottom of the page says "no alterations" and then there is my signature and the indication is that on this page no changes had been made.	It doesn't concern the correctness or genuineness of the document, just that there were no corrections and this was made specifically on each page except where changes had been made.	And there I signed next to the changes.

MR PRINSLOO: If we could refer to the handwritten pages.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, Mr Chairman.  Page 53 confirmed again no alterations and my signature.  My signature is affirmation of the words "no alterations".

MR PRINSLOO: Is that correct Mr Derby-Lewis that the document starting on page 1 of bundle R4 handwritten up to the one which we referred to now, you had not been warned in terms of Judges' Rules at all in regard to these documents?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: That is correct Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, were you not detained in terms of Section 29, would you have provided this information or made this statement?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, I would not have cooperated with the South African Police, I was involved in an armed struggle, a freedom struggle and they were part of the enemy.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, if you look at R4 continuation thereof on page 380 Mr Chairman, I would like to refer you to a document which pretends to be the statement of Captain Deetliefs, is that the same list or isn't it?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, on page 380 it appears as if the list is the same, except for the fact that I can immediately note that where in the other list, the name Groskopff is written as Hein Groskopff it is not stated as such in this list and then at the name of the singer Steve Hofmeyer is now inserted in "Spokesman Agriculture, ANC".

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry can you just give us the page again, please.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Page 380 of the R4 continued.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.

MR PRINSLOO: Do you know whether the singer Steve Hofmeyer was ever a spokesman on agriculture of the ANC?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, as far as I know, he was never involved in politics at all.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you pass on such information or provide such information to Mr Deetliefs?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Concerning Steve Hofmeyer, definitely not Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: Did you voluntarily provide Captain Deetliefs with this information?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, I repeat, nothing was given voluntarily and I wouldn't have given him a single sentence except to convince him of my political views, if I had been voluntarily allowed to testify.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, could you please tell the Committee who was the Station Commander in Benoni, in other words the member of the Uniformed Staff when you were in detention?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, the Station Commander of Benoni police station, was a certain Colonel Roos.

MR PRINSLOO: He was a member of the Uniformed Branch, right?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, that is correct and I was in his custody during my detention at Benoni.

MR PRINSLOO: The members of the Uniformed Branch, were they at all involved in the interrogation?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: No not at all Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: And the treatment that you received from Colonel Roos and his members during your detention?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, that is the letter that I sent.  That is the treatment that I received from Colonel Roos and his people while I was in their care.

MR PRINSLOO: Just a moment Mr Derby-Lewis, before you continue.  You are referring to a letter which appears on page 3 Mr Chairman, that is the same letter that my learned friend Mr Bizos, at the commencement of these proceedings, referred to this morning.
	Mr Derby-Lewis, Honourable Chairman, it is bundle E, page 3.  Could you please read this letter and tell us whom you referred to.

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Sure Mr Chairman.  The letter is dated 16 May 1993.  I am not going to repeat the address this has been submitted, read to the Committee, and that is the letter that reads as follows
"Dear Colonel, just a brief letter to thank you and your staff for the decent manner in which you had treated me during my detention at Benoni.
		I would also like to congratulate you with an excellent team and ask that you kindly pass on to all of them my good wishes and best luck for the future.  Thank you once again.  
		I will remember you all positively, kind regards, Clive Derby-Lewis.  
		PS.  At the end of this all, I will one day come and visit you again."

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, if you look at this letter and you say that you also wish to congratulate him on an excellent team, whom are you referring to?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: I am referring to the Uniformed Branch at Benoni police station, I was in their care all the time, and I was just handed over to the Security Branch for interrogation.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, this excellent team that you are referring to, did they interrogate you at any stage?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Never, at no stage.

MR PRINSLOO: Mr Derby-Lewis, while you were in detention, I would like to put it like this, Mr Chairman, I refer you to E11, if you look at that Mr Derby-Lewis, do you have it?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Yes, I have it.

MR PRINSLOO: In whose handwriting is this document?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: It is my handwriting Mr Chairman.

MR PRINSLOO: When was this document written?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: On the 30th of April 1993, during my detention under Section 29.

MR PRINSLOO: For what purpose did you write the letter?

MR DERBY-LEWIS: Mr Chairman, I wanted the letter to be sent to a journalist of the Citizen to be able to accept responsibility for the attack that was executed.

MR PRINSLOO: Would you please read this letter to the Committee?