Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1998-04-17

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Firstly, I could not think of a reason because I did not know him, we had never had a quarrel or any friction between us therefore I could not fathom a reason as to why he could do this.  That is what I also told Dina Mkhize when he questioned me after having been informed that he had been sent by Captain Hlungwane.  After explaining this to Dina he told me that he had reported the matter to Captain Hlungwane and Captain Hlungwane had said that we should try and investigate so as to find out the reason.
	The entire leadership of eSikhawini and of Ulundi as well as ourselves were concerned about this.  On following up information about Nati Gumede we discovered that although he was residing in Durban his home originally was at Langezwa.  This made us to seek out people from Langezwa and try to obtain information from them.  The used the IFP youth at Langezwa one of whom was under Andalatele.  Andalatele told us that he knew Nati Gumede and said that he was one of the ANC youth that they'd been fighting with at Langezwa such that he fled and went to Durban.  
	One day we drove in Mr Mmambo's car who was at that time a principal at Eshowe, also an IFP leader at Eshowe.  It was myself Zulu Dlamini and Israel Hlungwane and with Mmambo and we drove to Nati Gumede's house.  On arrival we found two cars parked and these cars belonged to the ANC office at Empangeni.  We didn't do anything on this particular day.  On returning we discovered that it appeared as if Nati's sister worked at the ANC office at Empangeni.  Dina then passed this information to Ulundi, we discussed the developments around Nati's case with the IFP leadership at the local level.  I think that after a few days that information had been sent to Ulundi.  Israel came to my house on his way from work and he told me that a telephone call had come through and it had requested that Dina Mkhize and myself should go to the IFP office at Empangeni on the following day.  
	When we got there we found M.R. Mkhize and Zwele Dlamini who told us that we were required at the head office in Ulundi and he told us that the person who wanted to see us was Prince Gideon Zulu.  They gave us two hundred rand to travel to Ulundi.

MR WILLS: Yes Mr Mbambo thank you, we have gone through that evidence to the effect that you went and you had this meeting with Prince Gideon Zulu but my question is, is why do you think, why at the time did you think Nati Gumede was making these charges against you?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: After our investigation, we concluded that Nati had been an ANC agent to try and get one of our members arrested because there had been several occasions when the ANC tried to shoot me or kill me at my house but not succeeding.  Dina had also been shot at but they were unsuccessful in their attempts.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mmambo, had you in fact prior to that had dealings with Mr Nati Gumede concerning a motor vehicle?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Just briefly explain what your dealings were with Mr Gumede?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: A boy by the name of Taam Inshlongo came to me, he was with Nati Gumede and he was selling a car, a Jetta and the car was not in a satisfactory condition.  He was selling this car for four thousand rands.  I bought the car and I took it panelbeaters in Richards Bay, that's where all our KwaZulu cars were maintained.  That's when I got to know Nati.  Subsequent to that, that was when he laid this charge.  I thought that he was talking about the Jetta that I'd initially bought from him but the police who were investigating the case explained that it was not this car that I was being charged for stealing but another one, that Nati said I had exchanged this particular car with the Jetta that he had sold me.  The Jetta had not in fact been stolen, it was an illegal car.

MR WILLS: Just on that point, Mr Mbambo, you indicated in page 44 of your affidavit, page 46 of the record and paragraph 103 that Nati alleged that as you've said now that you had swopped essentially or exchanged this BMW for the V.W.?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is what the police told me.

MR WILLS: And it's your version that you've indicated that this is incorrect and did not occur but in fact you paid four thousand rand for the V.W. is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is correct.

MR WILLS: You know nothing about the BMW that was allegedly stolen?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: No nothing at all.

MR WILLS: Who paid your bail in respect of that case?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: It was Mr Umbiasi the husband to Mrs Umbiasi.

MR WILLS: I'm sorry, if you can just bear with me Mr Chairperson?
	Sorry, Mr Mbambo I want you to just in a short as possible, possibly in a sentence, I want you to tell the Committee why you thought Nati had done this to you?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We thought about this from the information that we had gathered about Nati, firstly that he was an ANC Youth Member who had fled from Langezwa.
	Secondly we discovered that his sister worked at the ANC officers at Empangeni so we realised that his entire background was heavily influenced by the ANC, he was indeed an ANC member and a similar incident had occurred to me but that incident had been orchestrated by the IFP against Bogani Insome.

MR WILLS: Sorry, you say a similar incident, you're not telling us, what do you mean a similar incident.  You don't have to tell us about Bongani Insome, Mr Mkhize gave that evidence.  What you must do is you must just tell us what do you mean "the similar incident".

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: That is trying to get Bongani Insome arrested after we had failed quite a number of times to kill him.

MR WILLS: So is this what you thought that Nati Gumede was doing for you through this case?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Now as I understand your affidavit and I'm going to take you through it.  You didn't take the decision to kill Nati is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: And it's clear from your affidavit and from the evidence of both Mr Mkhize and Mr Luthuli that that authorisation came from the hierarchy at a specific meeting at Ulundi when this issue was discussed?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes it is so.

MR WILLS: Now if you hadn't been given that instruction what would have you done to Nati?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I wouldn't have done anything about it.

MR WILLS: There will be people who will probably cross-examine you on the basis that this person was killed as a result of a personal motive on your part, what are you going to say about that?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: I would explain that firstly I did not have the power to kill this person by myself.  Secondly if I had intentions of killing Nati by myself I wouldn't let such a long time pass because quite a while passed between the time I was arrested and the time that Nati was eventually killed.  On my release I would have gone straight to him and killed him.

MR WILLS: Yes now Mr Mkhize has given the details of this incident in quite a lot of graphic detail and I don't think we need to go into those details but essentially what happened was you kidnapped Mr Gumede from the place where he was staying in Durban, you brought him back to the eSikhawini area where you shot him and then you participated in setting fire to his body, is that correct?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: Yes that is so.

MR WILLS: ...[inaudible] explained why this was done in eSikhawini.  Would you like to just tell the Committee why you did this in eSikhawini and not in Durban?

ROMEO MBUSO MBAMBO: We brought him to eSikhawini because eSikhawini was our jurisdiction area.  This simply means that his death was to be investigated here at eSikhawini and by so doing we would have the power in the investigation to destroy all evidence and make sure that the investigation is not successful.