Special Hearings — Chemical And Biological Warfare Hearings — 1998-06-18

CHAIRPERSON: That brings us to half past two Mr Vally and in view of everything else that I have said, I think whatever follow-up questions will have to be held.

MR VALLY: I have two questions.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Mr Chairman, I beg your pardon, I just want to rectify something if I may.

CHAIRPERSON: ...[indistinct] Mr Vally, this question was put at a quarter past and you are now at half past.  If you are going to put to more questions we will be at 3 o'clock.  I sympathise with you but the witness has to give as full an answer as he would like to.  You are aware that the meeting that we are going into cannot be adjourned, it is important.

MR VALLY: Well, if I could just get clarification of this answer, I'll shelve the other two questions.

CHAIRPERSON: You are a brave man Mr Vally but you can go ahead.

MR VALLY: Sorry, before I continue.  General Knobel, you had something you wanted to say.

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Just one word.  I testified earlier today when you asked me about various projects and I said that Project Academic was the project for CR weaponisation, obviously that is not true.  That was the one project which was the document that we decided would not be discussed here.  Academic was in fact the defensive equipment detection apparatus, masks, filters, etc., etc., and I just want to rectify that, thank you.

MR VALLY: Thank you General Knobel.  From what I understand from what you explained to me the role of a project leader was, you mentioned that the Chief of Staff Finances would be in charge of finances and the technical work would be done by Doctor Basson who was also on the Co-ordinating Committee?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Yes.

MR VALLY: You co-ordinated the front companies?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, Sir.

MR VALLY: I'm still trying to pin down exactly, you've given us a long explanation but what precisely was your role?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: I think co-ordination, that is why it was called the Co-ordinating Management Committee.

MR VALLY: Co-ordinating what?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: Co-ordination between the three components, security on the one hand, financial arrangements on the other hand and the scientific and technical research and development on the third hand.  And obviously the Committee was responsible for the budgetary planning on a budget by objectives basis every year.

MR VALLY: Sir, did you attend any scientific meetings?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, Sir.

MR VALLY: None whatsoever?

DANIEL PETER KNOBEL: No, Sir.  It was policy that none of the Co-ordinating Management Committee members, neither the Chief of the Defence Force who was the Chairman, should be visible at the level of the companies. I  understand that Doctor Goosen testified that I visited the company with General Nieuwoudt, that is totally untrue.  It was policy not to go to the companies.
In the entire period of the project in which I was involved I visited Delta G one Sunday afternoon when there was nobody else present there, so that I could see the facility and I visited Roodeplaat also on a Sunday afternoon on one occasion and one evening I attended a social function at the farmhouse on the skirts of the property there.  But the police was that we were not to have contact with any of the scientists on the ground.
 I think Doctor van Rensburg testified to that effect, that he said he had seen me only once and that was in my office at my headquarters.

MR VALLY: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Vally.

MR VALLY: Carry on Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the conclusion of this segment of this hearing.  The matter is adjourned to a date to be arranged and on which date the evidence certainly of General Knobel will be concluded and that of Doctor Mijburgh and possibly Doctor Basson will be taken and any other further evidence as it may be necessary for us to have a complete picture of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Programme and its activities.  We are adjourned.
HEARING ADJOURNS