Human Rights Violation Hearings — Klerksdorp — 1996-09-26

PROF MEIRING: Mr Senatle, we have to move along rather quickly. Was that when you eventually fled and went to the cemetery and stayed in the cemetery?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: That's true, Sir.

PROF MEIRING: And then again, you were arrested and you together with Benji Oliphant and you were taken to Jouberton police station.

SAM JENNY SENATLE: No, Sir.  After I ran with Benji, the followin gday I went to my sister's house.  Then we disguised ourselves.  Then my sister gave us evening dresses with Afro
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wigs.  Then we went to Ellis Hadji, then he took us to Porch we decided to go to Johannesburg.  That is where I separated from Benji.  After that, that was the last time I saw Benji.
 On the 11th of June, the week after I ran away, I went back home again.  On the 11th of June they came to pick me up, April and company.  They arrested me under the Internal Scurity Act.  On the 12th, the state of emergency was declared.  Then Bishop Mdande was there.  The journalist Hoffmann was there, Mosupa was there. We were taken to Khuma police station.  Where we were forced, together with Pakadi, he was a councillor by then, we were forced to sing revolutionary songs.  We were hit, they were hitting us at that time.  After two days we were taken to Klerksdorp prison.

PROF MEIRING: According to your witness, after you were taken to prison in September 1986, you were taken to an isolation cell.

SAM JENNY SENATLE: After interrogation by April, there was a policeman called Bennett. I was taken by adjudant Kruger from the cell, but that was an adjudant.  They took me to an isolation cell. Journalist Hoffmann was there and Pagad was there.  We were interrogated in single cells, but they were open, I was able to hear them and Bennett was asking me where Benji is.  Then I said we separated in Johannesburg. Then I was adamant at that time. Then Bennett started hitting me. Since he was unable to get the truth, he called April to say this person is insulting your mother.  Then April, he didn't ask, then when I refused that and say I didn't insult his mother, then Bennett assaulted me by saying I am telling a lie.  Then April pulled out a gun.  Then he said this dog, we should kill him before we get
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Benji.  He didn't even want to throw his case.  Then April tried it.

PROF MEIRING: Everything happened in September 1986.

SAM JENNY SENATLE: 1986.

PROF MEIRING: And then according to your testimony, you stayed in the isolation cell in prison for a whole year, for nearly a year.  It was only in June 1987 that you were released. Is that correct?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: I didn't stay the whole period in prison. It was only that time that I was assaulted that I was returned to the cell, but I was taken to other comrades. I was assaulted April handcuffed me. Then they put me in the corner of the wall.  Uys and Kruger were there at that time.  Together with Bennett they were hitting my head against the wall.  I was even worse as compared to the photos I am going to produce. I was not able to see.  They were pouring water over me.  Then I collapsed on the steps in prison.  Then that is that when I was taken to my isolation cell. That is where I stayed.  At that time, Judge Goldstone Stone came to the prisoners. I believe he came at the time while  I still had scars on my face. I stayed there and then in December I heard that Benji Oliphant has been killed.  I heard that from April Tswaide.  Because he said he he is going to start with me and then after that he is going to kill Benji.
 In 1987 we were released together with other comrades.  We were bribed that we should leave all those political activities and we were taken out on Sunday.  The police said that we could go home.

PROF MEIRING: I see it is a long story you had to tell us and you had a very, very painful experience.  But thank you for sharing that with us.  May I ask only one or two
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questions and then I will hand you over to my colleagues who will no doubt would like to ask you a question or two themselves.  The real question I would like ask of you is, after your release, you say that you suffered a lot and that you were not able to work. Is that correct?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: Yes, that's true.

PROF MEIRING: Do you have a disability grant, do you receive money montly to live on?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: Nothing, Sir.
END OF TAPE - SIDE A

SAM JENNY SENATLE: ... through dance competitions, even if they don't bring much, because at home we are about six and there is nobody working.

PROF MEIRING: The dance competitions, does that bring in money?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: There is a problem that people are not used to dance competitions and people are not attending.

PROF MEIRING: Your daughter is twelve years of age.  Who cares for her?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: Her mother is the one who takes care of her.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.  I think I am finished with all my questions. I would like to hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Tom Manthata?

THOMAS MANTHATA: Sam, I see here that even when you were arrested, there was one comrade who died and then was buried.  I wanted to find out whether through your boycotts, was there any person who died?  For instance, people who were working within the councils and the policemen, to show that your boycott was the boycott of killing?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: In Jouberton no policeman was attacked.
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Except in 1987 when the police were not understanding, they were killing then and the people were fighting back.  But I am not sure whether there was a policeman who was attacked.

THOMAS MANTHATA: At that time during 1985/1986, was there no policeman who was attacked or killed?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: The intention was not to kill.

THOMAS MANTHATA: There was a parents committee at that time, what was the work of the parents committee to help you with?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: It was formed during that time when we were just about to write our exams and when the police wanted us to write exams in the police station, then they formed the parents committee to intervene in that crisis.

THOMAS MANTHATA: But during your arrest, and even in your assaults in your torture, besides the examination thing, they were not helping or trying to give you support, which you needed?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: The parents committee, after it was formed, it was there after Bishop Mdande, they were also arrested at that time. It was taken as if they were influencing us.  So they were giving us direction and they were showing us our mistakes if they were there.

THOMAS MANTHATA: In other words they were giving you moral support.

SAM JENNY SENATLE: Yes.

THOMAS MANTHATA: During that time, in the UDF leadership who were members?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: At the (indistinct) at that time, there was no leader as such, during 1985.

THOMAS MANTHATA: Then how were you able to work with UDF in Johannesburg when you were able to run away as well?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: I didn't run away to Johannesburg.  The person
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who was able to run to Johannesburg was Benji Oliphant.    But people like Terror was appearing at times.

THOMAS MANTHATA: I would ask that during that time when you were a leader, that now how do you see yourself, are you a leader or not?

SAM JENNY SENATLE: For now I am a volunteer worker in the Arts and Culture Department in RDP in Klerksdorp, on a voluntary basis.

THOMAS MANTHATA: The members of the parents committee, I heard you speaking or Rev Masupa.  How did you work with them, now in the committee of Jouberton?