Special Hearings — Caprivi Hearings — 1997-08-11

MR MACADAM: 2B from a meeting, but they will tell us what they were discussing at that meeting and the outcome of the meeting in the afternoon, but I should come to Mrs Mbuyazi's house late in the afternoon and truly, I went to Mrs Mbuyazi in that afternoon and Mrs Mbuyazi led the story that Mzimela said even though he was an IFP member, it was going to be difficult for him to interfere with the arresting of the IFP Youth, because there were rumours existing that he was the one behind the hit squads in Esikhaweni and he further told us that he thinks the best way was, because the IFP is complaining about Internal Stability Unit and the CID unit, amongst the hit squad members there should be a member which will infiltrate these two units so that we could be able to prevent the arrest of the IFP Youth and that even after they have arrested or they happened to arrest the IFP Youth, there should be one at least among the investigators to destroy the evidence and Gcina Mkhize was working at the Internal Stability Unit, they appointed me to infiltrate the CID branch and Mrs Mbuyazi said I should fill out an application to join the CIDs so that I could conducively and infiltrate and the following day I did just that, filled out the application and gave it to the branch commander and he refused to approve that, because he said he did not want me to leave that unit for another one.  And I filled out a second application and took it to branch commander, the CID one and he accepted it.  But my branch commander of Crime Prevention Unit kept reiterating the fact that he will not let me join the other unit and I took this to Mrs Mbuyazi, this matter to Mrs Mbuyazi, that my application was not being approved.  During those days I was called by Brigadier Mzimela in his

MR MACADAM: /office

MR MACADAM: 2B office and he told me that, "Mbambo, fill the third application and take it straight to me".  I did just that and I gave it to him and he approved it.  That was how I left and joined the CID unit.  My work consisted of - if I was on call on standby, that meant that as a detective for seven days, will be the one who will undertake the initial investigation in all the cases that had just been reported and it was said that if I happened to be on a standby, the youth of the IFP will go and attack certain homes of ANC and I will sign dockets, so I conduct the initial investigation and thereafter destroy every evidence and mislead the evidence in such a way that it will be not understood and Gcina Mkhize in the Internal Stability Unit would take the units that will be on duty at night and take it to another work and will operate in a different area, while they were operating also in a different area.  That was our duty in those units, in other words to prevent the arrest of the IFP Youth.

MR MACADAM: Did this in fact take place, or not?

WITNESS:   It took place till the day I got arrested.

MR MACADAM: Are you in any position - able to indicate, just as a rough estimate, how many case you would have then covered up in the manner that you've described?

WITNESS:   Even though I'm not certain as to how many cases there were, there were many, I think more than ten cases, because I will cover our operations and as well as Youth IFP operations.

MR MACADAM: Did you have any further role to do with the youth that were involved in the violence?  You said you were going to cover up their cases for them.  Did you have anything further to do with their activities?

MR MACADAM: /There

MR MACADAM: 2B There are many things I did with the IFP, together with the leadership of IFP.  The training of the IFP Youth in Esikhaweni;  the training of the IFP Youth at Port Durnford and the training of the IFP Youth in Dlangezwa and the training if the IFP Youth in Ensingweni and again the advice that we gave to the IFP Youth and the plannings.

MR MACADAM: Briefly, what training did you give the youth?

WITNESS:  The training we made available to the youth was the use of the AK47 guns, R1, G3 rifles and the use of the hand grenade and the ways in which we would attack the ANC and how cautious they should be each time they were going to attack the ANC, because the IFP Youth had already started fighting with the ANC a long time ago before our hit squad came into existence, but often times than not they were using petrol bombs and home-made firearms and after the hit squad came into existence, there was enough equipment, like hand grenades and guns and now we had to train them how to use such weapons safely and hand grenades as well.

MR MACADAM: Where did these weapons that you used in the training come from?

WITNESS:   One of the guns was the one Gcina Mkhize went to fetch from Thomas Buthelezi and other guns were brought by Mrs Mbuyazi and B B Biyela and Celani Mthethwa and Gcina brought some, Gcina Mkhize.

MR MACADAM: And did this training take place over a protracted period or just at one time and place?

INTERPRETER: Please repeat your question.

MR MACADAM: Did the training of the youth take place over an extended period of time or was it confined to just one specific time and place when this training was given?

WITNESS:   The one that was prolonged, the training that was

MR MACADAM: /prolonged,

MR MACADAM: 2B prolonged, is the Esikhaweni training, but the training of others was not so long, but they would just come for those few days and we'll train them within those days and then they will leave and go back to their respective areas.

MR MACADAM: And you were recruited by Gcina to be a member of the hit squad.  Did he have any other members of his specific hit squad which you had joined?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.  In our squad it was Gcina Mkhize, myself, Israel Hlongwane, Zweli Dlamini, Constable Victor Buthelezi, Constable Mthethwa who was working for BSI and Constable P S Ndlovu, who was also trained at Caprivi and Jeffrey Mthethwa and he was also trained in Caprivi ... [break in recording] ... Mhlongo and he was trained in Caprivi as well.

MR MACADAM: And the person you named, Zweli Dlamini, do you know where he resided when he operated as a hit squad member?

WITNESS:   He was residing at Mrs Mbuyazi's home.

MR MACADAM: Do you know what functions he performed at her home, why he was there?

WITNESS:   He was with Israel Hlongwane when they arrived in Esikhaweni and Zweli Dlamini was coming from Ulundi, Israel Hlongwane was coming from Ermelo.  Israel Hlongwane was accommodated at Mayor B B Biyela and Zweli at Mrs Mbuyazi, so that they could supply strength to our squad.

MR MACADAM: Now it's correct that this squad became involved in a number of murders and attempted murders over some considerable period?

WITNESS:   Yes, that's true.

MR MACADAM: And at the moment we probably won't have more time than perhaps to touch with two of the incidents which you were involved in, but I just want to get some general information about the squad.  You've told us a list of -

MR MACADAM: /you've

MR MACADAM: 2B you've given us a list of names of people who were members of the squad.  Now what I want you to establish firstly is every time the squad went to kill somebody, was it a case that all these persons would go and be part of that group or was it a case that depending on what was done, some people would take part, others wouldn't take part, people would come in, drop out, other persons coming in.  Could you tell us which of those two situations applied?

WITNESS:  At times they will all go, at times not all of them.  Given an operation, it will happen that maybe I won't take part or perhaps Gcina Mkhize won't take part, only Jeffrey Mthethwa will take part.  That's how we used to work.

MR MACADAM: What type of weapons were used by the squad in these various murders and attempted murders, etcetera?