Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-16

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, are we ready to begin?  Mr Visser I've no doubt you appear for all three of the applicants.

MR VISSER: Two.  Good morning, Mr Chairman, we appear for Wasserman and du Preez.  There's appearance for the third applicant, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR RORICH: Mr Chairman, I appear for Ben Mwelase in this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR RORICH: It's Sean Rorich.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Ms Gabriel?

MS GABRIEL: Mr Chairman, I appear on behalf of the Ninela family, that is the family of the victim.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  Are we ready to proceed?

MS GABRIEL: Mr Chairman, before we proceed, may I have leave to hand up documents?  I believe that they have been made available to the applicants and to members of the Committee and these relate to an inquest.

CHAIRPERSON: They have not been made available to us.

MS GABRIEL: I apologise, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, what documents are these that you're handing in?

MS GABRIEL: Mr Chairman, I'm told that they will be brought to members of the Committee.  These relate to an inquest concerning the death of a male in February in 1989 and it will form part of the evidence that will be led by the Ninela family.

CHAIRPERSON: The name of the male you don't have?

MS GABRIEL: Pardon me, Mr Chairman?

CHAIRPERSON: The inquests relating to the death of a male, you don't have his name?

MS GABRIEL: Yes, I do.  Zweletini Inshman Bhengu.

CHAIRPERSON: How do you spell the second name?

MS GABRIEL: I-N-S-H-M-A-N Bhengu, B-H-E-N-G-U.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright that document will go in as Exhibit A.

MR VISSER: We have an Exhibit A which is carried over, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: What was that?

MR VISSER: That was the general background document.  Could we perhaps retain that as Exhibit A also for purposes of reference in this hearing?

CHAIRPERSON: Let's just place that on record.  Exhibit A will be?

MR VISSER: 'Algemene Agtergrond tot Amnestie Aansoeke', Chairperson.  It's the same document which was previously handed, we've handed copies to the newcomers.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I understand, thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Gabriel, you've handed in the inquest.  What else?

MS GABRIEL: Mr Chairman, may the inquest report be then Exhibit B?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MS GABRIEL: As well we request leave to hand up two further statements, the first being a statement from Sefiso Sempiwhe Kunene.  May that be called Exhibit C then?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.  What is the date of that statement?

MS GABRIEL: It's dated the 12th August 1999.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that will be Exhibit C.

MS GABRIEL: And the final document is a further statement from Moketsi Kevin Chris Qhobosheane.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you spell that surname please?

MS GABRIEL: Yes. Q-H-O-B-O-S-H-E-A-N-E and the date of this statement is today, the 16th of August 1999.

CHAIRPERSON: Very well.  Where are they?

MS GABRIEL: May I have a small indulgence, Mr Chairman, just to ensure that these documents...

CHAIRPERSON: Very well, I understand copies are being made of those documents.  Yes.  Yes, Mr Visser?

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Chairman, we have two bundles.  There was the original bundle that we all got earlier on and a second bundle called an additional bundle, was handed to us when we started.  I trust that you have those bundles before you?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we do.

MR VISSER: Perhaps for the sake of convenience, might we refer to them as bundles 1 and 2, Chairperson?  The original one being bundle 1 and the additional one being bundle 2.  It might make it easier for sake of reference.
	Mr Chairman then in bundle 2 we would direct your attention to page 4 where you will find the statement of Mr du Preez in amplification of his amnesty application.  Mr du Preez is present, ready to take the oath, he has no objection to taking the oath and he prefers to give his evidence in Afrikaans.

S G DU PREEZ: (sworn states)

MR VISSER: Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr du Preez last week before this Committee you gave evidence, is that correct?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Do you repeat the evidence that you gave before this Committee with special regard to the introduction and the contents thereof?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Your amnesty application appears in bundle 1 from page 11 to pages 23.

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Do you confirm the contents of the said document, subject to elaborations and further evidence which you will give today?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: The application entails the abduction or kidnapping of Mr Blessing Ninela, his unlawful detention and his murder?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Will you please proceed to page 5, that is page 2 before you of bundle 2.  You have already dealt last week with the introduction which appears on page 2 before you, namely your bad memory and the confusion of the incidents.  Is that not so?

S G DU PREEZ: That is correct, Chairperson.

MR VISSER: Will you please tell the Committee what you can recall of the current incident and what your role was therein?

S G DU PREEZ: I can recall that I was contacted by Col Taylor and received instruction to meet with him at a certain shooting range.  I had to bring Wasserman with me.

MR VISSER: It does not say that in the statement.  Can you recall what date it was when it happened?

S G DU PREEZ: No, I cannot recall the date.

MR VISSER: Can you give us a year?

S G DU PREEZ: No, I am not sure about the year.  From other people's evidence I've seen it there, but it may be the correct date.

MR VISSER: Was that June 1988, the date which you saw?

S G DU PREEZ: That's correct.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

S G DU PREEZ: Wasserman and I arrived at the place where we met Taylor and certain askaris.  Taylor informed us that Ninela was an ANC terrorist who was trained in the handling of limpet mines and hand-grenades.  According to Taylor he had been responsible in the past for explosions in the Durban vicinity.

MR VISSER: Where did this meeting between Wasserman and yourself and Taylor and the askaris take place?

S G DU PREEZ: We met at a shooting range on the South Coast.

MR VISSER: Close to which place?

S G DU PREEZ: I do not recall the name, it's on the other side of Amanzimtoti.

MR VISSER: Please continue.

S G DU PREEZ: I was told that Ninela had provided explosive devices to two other persons, which had to be detonated in the Durban area.  One of the explosive devices was detonated and this caused the death of one person and had caused that one person had been killed and another seriously injured and had to be taken to a hospital.  Col Taylor received information from last-named person that they had received explosive devices from Ninela.  He then arranged that the askaris abduct Ninela and they had to...(intervention)

MR VISSER: Who was the person who arranged it?  You said he arranged it?

S G DU PREEZ: The askaris.

MR VISSER: No, who arranged for the askaris to abduct Ninela?

S G DU PREEZ: Col Taylor.

MR VISSER: Very well.

S G DU PREEZ: And they had to present themselves as MK members who would help him escape from the police.  Taylor told us that he was satisfied that Ninela could not be turned and that if he was to be released, he would continue with his acts of terror and that there was no evidence on which grounds he could be charged.

CHAIRPERSON: Why could he not have been charged?

S G DU PREEZ: That is what Taylor told me.

CHAIRPERSON: I mean, you heard from Taylor that this man had given explosives to two people, one explosive had in fact gone off and killed somebody and yet he tells you that the man can't be charged.  Didn't it occur to you to find out now why he can't be charged?