Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-03

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I said, what we are about today was formed in block F.  The people behind all what we are today about, are the ones that Vips was calling their names when the kombi was taking a u-turn.  There was Buthelezi's son also saying from his side that: "Father, talk out, you are the one who was saying we should kill these people".
	As we were still listening to what the boy was saying, shouting at his father, Vips in the kombi that he never alighted from, peeped from the window as the kombi was driving off and calling the names of the people that I've already made mention of.

CHAIRPERSON: But, did he say that the names that he was calling were the names of individuals who had taken part in the killing of Bulelwa?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: The people he was calling are the people who were forming the new self-defence in Moleleki, block F.  Did the persons that you had captured tell you who had killed Blanko?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, they told us.

CHAIRPERSON: Who did they say killed Blanko?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: They said it was Tusanang and even in Bulelwa's case they said it was Tusanang still.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: ...[No English translation]

MR MALAN: Can we just have that translation?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: We went to the corpse of Bulelwa and Blanko after the kombi drove off and the hearse came and they loaded the corpse in the hearse.  I'm forgetting something.  At the time when we left Kumalo Valley going with Miles and Izak, at the bridge in block A we met accused number 2, Mr Malcolmess ...[indistinct] coming from work.  He was at work in a night shift in Alrode Brewery.
	He was walking from the hospital from Moleleki Extension 2.  He found us there at the bridge escorting Miles and Izak going to block F.  When we arrived where the corpse of Bulelwa was there were about five, there were five casspirs and the hearse was also there and the corpse of comrade Blanko was taken and the cartridges were also picked from the ground.
	As far as I was concerned there was nothing that had happened.  There were some others who were behind this ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Please Mr Sonti, thank you, we've heard that.
	Is there any other matter that you want to canvass with Mr Sonti?

MR MADASA: Mr Sonti, when the victims were removed from the shack to the open field, were you still there?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I wasn't there.

MR MADASA: When you left the scene, what was happening?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I was still explaining.  After the corpse of Blanko and Bulelwa, there was another girl who used to work at his tuckshop by the name of Nxtesi who came from where Blanko came from or was born, Nxobo.  That is the one girl I said to that she should escort me to look for Blanko's mum who came from Ramkunupe.  Blanko' mother ...[intervention]

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] to look for Blanko's relatives, is that so?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, that is so.

MR MADASA: Now, did you go back to the scene again?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: I was still explaining Sir.  As the last corpse of Blanko was taken to the mortuary, the community of Moleleki Extension 2 had a desire to go and see all the people who were behind this incident, who committed this act.  That was also my wish because I wanted them to see them because there wasn't anyone that we knew exactly as to whose child could be and so forth.
	As I had already said before, when we were coming from block A saying the person who had a dog who patrolled the previous night should come forth and identify in block F.  And I even said the name when I was with this girl Nxtesi, that we should go to block F and see but no-one responded as to who's mother that could be or I'm this mother and this is my child.  No-one responded in that regard.
	And the girl by the name of Nxtesi who was working at Blanko's tuck shop - there was another lady in block E who had taken some goods on credit to the amount or R40 from the tuck shop, and we got into a taxi with this girl to go and look or to go to Ramkunupe West ...[intervention]

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] that people who were children amongst the victims should go to block F to identify and this was also your wish but none responded? ...[inaudible] was this women who owed Blanko R40, right?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: This lady was Blanko's neighbour.

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] go back to the scene where the community was or to block F, did you go back?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: When I was calling, saying people should head to block F to identify, no-one responded.  There was Mr Ramabele there, that I've already said he was Miagetsi, said they should not even be shown those people or given an opportunity to identify.
	So people never responded and it was during the day.  As I've already said, no-one responded in that regard.  I was still going to look or search for Blanko's family to come and see the perpetrators or the people who have done this act.

MR MADASA: Do you know what transpired with regard to the victims who were at the shack?  You say you did not go there.

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Yes, I did not go there.

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] any stage?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Not at any stage.  No, I did not see them.

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] come back with Blanko's relative?  Did you find Blanko's relative?

ZOLA NXEBA MICHAEL SONTI: Listen, let me explain.  I said we were going with this girl, we did not find him.  He was at work and it was on Tuesday, on the 7th.  We did not find Nelson and this girl, because she stayed in that section, did not come back with me, I came back alone.
	As I was coming back I got Malcolmess Ngaam(?) who is applying for amnesty, at the taxi rank.  I found him there with Nbele who was also there in the organisation at the time.  When I got there I asked them as to where the majority of the SDU members were and Malcolmess Ngaam and Nbele said they went towards the veld.
	I rushed to where Bulelwa used to stay.  I got quite a number of women standing outside and Bulelwa's brother as well was there.  His face was familiar to me but I did not know at the time that he was Bulelwa's brother and Bulelwa's husband, by the name of Xinga.
	When I got there, even though it was my first time to see Bulelwa's brother, it was me who explained or gave them the report how we parted with Bulelwa, explained to the women who were sitting inside and outside of Bulelwa's shack.  I explained how we last saw each other and what happened.
	The husband was not there previously ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: ...[inaudible] but is all this - does this have any relevance to this matter?

MR MADASA: Mr Chair, you will appreciate my problem, it hasn't but I find it difficult to guide the applicant.
	Mr Sonti, on page 35 of the bundle ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Which page number?

MR MADASA: Page 35.

CHAIRPERSON: 35, yes?

MR MADASA: In your application you state that, at paragraph 9, you ask for amnesty in respect of 9(a) 1, the offence being murder but now you've told the Committee that you are not responsible for any dead person.  Now my question is, why did you think that you probably were responsible?

MR MALAN: Before he answers, may I just extend to that question because in 9(5) in the application he does apply for murder but he says
"For two people killed with a knopkierrie"
in the application form.