Human Rights Violation Hearings — King William's Town — 1997-05-14

MR KOLELA: I'm here.  I'm just here to respond to the allegations against me.  That is it, it is the rest of the Ciskeian police that can respond to your question

MR DORRINGTON: Mr Chairperson, if I may also respond to that, I must agree that purpose of this hearing as I understand it, on behalf of Mr Kolela, is to answer the allegations that have been made against him.  There may be ancilliary issues around that but I do think that the purpose of this, is to investigate his involvement.  I'd appreciate if, unless the, it's, it's felt otherwise, the questions, he's only been able to prepare himself on the limited information which has been put before him.  Very broad questions may possibly be taking him by surprise at the moment, and I don't know if that's fair to him at this stage.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sandi ?.

MR SANDI: I thank you, Mr Chairman.  Mr Dorrington, I think I must draw your attention to the provisions of Section 3.1(a) of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act.  In terms of that Section which is the core of our statutory mandate, we have to establish as complete a picture as possible of the gross human rights violations that have been committed during the given period, so you may find that from time to time, we will ask questions which in your mind, as a lawyer, you will think such questions are irrelevant.  Thank you.

MR DORRINGTON: Thank you , I've nothing further to say to that.

CHAIRPERSON: Ok. Thank you very much, Mr Dorrington and thank you Mr Kolela.  Would you come with ...

MR SANDI: So you never worked for the Security Police altogether ?

MR KOLELA: I did.  At the end of '87 and '88, then from the Security Branch, I was transferred to VIP Protection.

MR SANDI: How long did you work for the Security Branch ?

MR KOLELA: I was taken to Sandilendagan when he was preparing for his wedding.  I would just go to the Security Branch now and again and go back.  I did not work there for a long time.  If there were Ministers, they had to be escorted.  We had to escort these VIP's.  You too, Sir, I guarded you.

CHAIRPERSON: Where were you based at the Security Branch, was it in Zwelitsha ?.

MR KOLELA: Yes.  I would deal with members of the ANC, in exile, information.

CHAIRPERSON: What about Mr Mashibini and Mr Moss and Kolela.  Do you know them ?

MR KOLELA: I know Mr Mashibini and Kolela, I worked together with them.  I've never worked with Mr Moss, because when I went to the Security Branch, he'd already left to another unit.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you work with them at the Security Branch in Zwelitsha ?

MR KOLELA: Yes, we were all together there.

CHAIRPERSON: And, do you think that Mr Ndudula has a reason to choose you, alone and say that you tortured him ?.

MR KOLELA: I don't know why he claims this, because when I listened to him, his statement was contradictory, there was conflict in his statement, because when Mrs  June Crichton questioned him, he said, or Tiny Maya, he, he  said  that I'd taken  him  to  King William's Town  and he  left there,  sat  there until after dinner.  At the same time he says that this happened at Zone 6 at the Security Police, so I don't know what the truth is.  His conflict is contradictory, it's not straight forward.  It's  the first time I see him.

CHAIRPERSON: Lets leave it at that.  That it's our duty to evaluate as a Commission.  I just want to know.  It was clear in his statement that the people that he referred to, he said that, they had not tortured him, but you specifically, he mentioned and said that you tortured him.  Is there reason for that ?.

MR KOLELA: He says that he's been arrested, maybe that's true, and saw me at Zone 6 at the offices, but I don't know him.  Maybe he was arrested, but I don't know him.  He did say that he would see us now and again.   He says he was arrested and changed his name, released.  I don't know him.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Kolela.  Thank you, Mr Dorrington for assisting us to establish to truth because that's what we're about.  We are hoping that by getting the truth and putting the truth before the nation, there may be a basis for reconciliation and we are grateful that you have come to assist us with that.  We are indeed, do not want to miss an opportunity of thanking Mr Mashibini and Mr Moss also for submitting statements, but on the basis of the oral evidence, we need to review our position on those statements.  Thank you very much.

MR DORRINGTON: Thank you, Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: We'll adjourn until 2, half past 2.
HEARING ADJOURNS