Amnesty Hearings — Nelspruit — 1999-02-02

CHAIRPERSON: Are you suggesting or actually stating that before the 28th of September 1992, that's when the ambush on the bus took place, the majority of workers at Escort Bacon Factory were IFP members or members affiliated to the IFP?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: And in your department, one would therefore by implication presume that the majority of workers in your department, that's the butchery department, were IFP members, is that not so?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes, that's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: So as you have stated in  your affidavit that Mr Mbatha who had instructed you to make sure that your achieve that important objective of making sure that you put in as many IFP members in the workplace, that objective you had attained?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: That's correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Can you in the light of that evidence, explain why you felt intimidated by a handful of ANC workers during the morning of the 28th of September, that resulted in you being so angry to a point of leaving the premises because you felt so intimidated?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: The reason why I became afraid is because in my workplace there are many sections which I normally walk around and enter, some of which are hidden and I was afraid maybe sometimes they can corner me into one of the refrigerators or get me on those particular areas and not knowing who exactly are my attackers.  I decided it's better for me to be killed outside of that area or to die next to my people because it was possible that in the factory they could have cornered me in a particular corner and killed me.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Hadebe, did you discuss the taunting with any IFP member or members in your department?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I did discuss that after all the things that were planned have been done and I explained to the people the reason why I left the work, this and that happened, but it was after the incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you suggesting we should believe that the reason why you left was because you were taunted and you felt intimidated even though you had quite a number of people that you could have gone to support you against the taunting by a handful of ANC workers?  You were in the majority, that's your evidence.  You as IFP or Uwusa members were in the majority in that factory.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Chairperson, I had to be afraid because there is no safety in that factory.  We might be many people inside there.  In the first place we are using knives and I have to walk up and down the factory passing all these people.  What came to my mind is, if it happens that I passed and entered into one of the big refrigerators and they close the door, I can't open it from the inside.
	Or it's possible that when trying to pass these people, someone who will be brave enough will stab me as I pass them.  And that came to my mind, that they might try to kill me unaware, so I thought it would be better to be out of this place and if they were to attack me, to attack me in a place where I'll be able to see them coming to attack me because I felt unsafe in that place.

CHAIRPERSON: Had your life, prior to this incident, ever been put at risk whilst you were at work?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Before, even if I didn't put it in my papers or I don't remember if I ever included that in my statements, it was well known in the township that the people used to sing slogans including my name inside it, saying that I was supposed to be killed, and I used not to take that very seriously because I thought it's just one of the slogans that they used because ourselves, we also chanted quoting some of their names.
	Therefore, at the time when they had pointed at me with fingers, I realised now this is serious, that they're going to kill me.

CHAIRPERSON: But had you not stated in your affidavit that, and that's the evidence I seem to recall having been led by you when you were giving oral testimony, that you were held in esteem by the locals in the township, you were amongst the few of the IFP members who could make contact and interact with the members of the community who were largely ANC?  Wasn't that what you said in your oral testimony?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes, I did say that because those people that I used to meet and talk to in the township didn't have any problem with me and I never had any problem with them, but people from outside our meetings, people didn't even attend those discussions between myself and the community, these are the people who wanted me to be killed.
	For example, in my own meetings those people who I used to go and meet and discuss in the community, my own organisation people never had a problem with them because these other people were the people who didn't accept me and they were saying if you are an Inkatha you have to be killed, if you are an ANC you have to be killed but it was not the people I was working with, that was the other group.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your response, Mr Hadebe, to the evidence that was led during your criminal trial in which both Johanna and Sophie identified you as having been, not only present at the scene of the offence, but as having participated  in the commission of the offence?
	In your testimony you said something which puzzled me, you said you wouldn't deny the fact that they saw you, that they could be right, but how can they be right when you say you never physically participated in the actual commission of the offence, and that is the throwing of the handgrenade at the bus in question which resulted in one person being killed and several people being injured?

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: Yes, I did accept or admit that they might have seen me.  Why, because at the place where we were we were a number of people I explained that I left the group and went towards the gate of the hostel just before the incident of the bombing of the bus.
	When I arrived in the front or at the gate of the hostel, I was in an open space where I was visible.  I only went for hiding during the explosion, and after the explosion I did come back out again.  So it is possible - I'm saying that it is possible that they might have seen me standing there because people, some people were crying and some people were insulting and all these things.

CHAIRPERSON: But Johanna does not say she saw you there, she says she saw you throwing something at the bus that would suggest that you threw a grenade at the bus, that resulted in the explosion that subsequently occurred.

MZOBONA LEONARD HADEBE: I would like to emphasise that it was going to be impossible for me to throw the bomb into the bus because in our organisation you are not allowed to take any act or commit any act unless you are given an instruction by the Indunas.
	If the Indunas had selected me as one of those who was supposed to attack the bus, I would have done that but since they didn't select me, they selected those few people who were supposed to carry out the act, those were the people who were supposed to commit the act and I wouldn't have done it as a person not selected.
	I'm stressing that in our organisation you cannot you cannot do anything without instructions from the Indunas themselves.  I explained that the attack on the bus, there were people selected to carry out the job.
	I personally did not throw or I didn't take part in the attack on the bus.  As the people said that there are four, the Indunas explained, these are the people who were going to attack the bus.  That's for that particular task.

CHAIRPERSON: You've testified that you saw those four alleged perpetrators throwing the handgrenade at the bus, you actually saw that, how far were these people from where you were standing?