Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 1999-08-30

MR VISSER IN REPLY: Chairperson, very briefly.  We've anticipated most of the points but as far as Mr Gordhan's submissions are concerned, he says that there was no or there was not sufficient frankness and as I understand it, Chairperson, nothing else is advanced to you except that he shows no sincere regret and that his evidence does not promote reconciliation.  Well, with respect Chairperson, I don't need to address you on those issues.  Certainly showing regret is no requirement of the Act and whether or not his evidence shows reconciliation does not detract from the fact that what he said may not have been palatable to some people as long as you are convinced and satisfied, Chairperson, that what he said was the truth.
	Chairperson, the issue of the address of the type of equipment and how it was obtained, he was very frank, he says he can't remember and it really is a side issue, Chairperson, it is not a material issue.  We've dealt with the personal vindictiveness Chairperson, there's no evidence to indicate that at all except statements made in cross-examination.
	Chairperson, lastly as far as the mole is concerned, Botha tells you it was important to find out who it was and one can easily understand why.  This person probably had access to information about informers, about information about reports that came in etc. etc. which he could pass on to the enemy.  With great respect, Chairperson, if Botha tells you that it was important to find it out there's no reason to doubt that assertion.  That's all we have to say, Chairperson, in response and we again ask you to favourably consider the amnesty application of Mr Botha.
	Just perhaps lastly, Chairperson, the same goes for the alleged contradictions about times etc. etc., the contradictions were raised by Mr Gordhan, it wasn't raised by the applicants.  The applicants in fairness conceded as possibilities certain time lapses which were put to them by Mr Gordhan.  Mr Gordhan cannot on the strength of that now submit to you, Chairperson, that there are contradictions which are material.  Thank you Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Visser.  Mr Nel, do you have any reply?

MR NEL: I have nothing in reply, thank you Chairperson.
NO REPLY BY MR NEL

CHAIRPERSON: Yes thank you, that therefore leaves just one aspect of this matter and that is the decision to be handed down by this Panel.  We will reserve our decision, we will need to deliberate on it and in any event I prefer to hand down a written decision so the decision will be reserved and that then brings the hearing to a conclusion.
	Our next matter, as I mentioned this morning, on the roll is the so-called Khubeka incident which will only commence tomorrow.  I see now that it's just on 4 o'clock, we will then adjourn for the day.  Ms Thabethe, the people involved in tomorrow, what time will be convenient to start tomorrow morning?  Are there any other lawyers coming in who are starting who aren't here?

MR VISSER: I personally don't know, Chairperson, but we have in the past attempted to start at half past 9, we have more often than not, not been successful but we have tried to start at half past nine in the morning.

CHAIRPERSON: I'd prefer to start earlier in the morning and that will give us more meaningful day in terms of time.

MR VISSER: Could I suggest we try for half past nine?

CHAIRPERSON: Seeing as it's the first morning of that particular hearing we'll adjourn until half past nine tomorrow morning.

MR GORDHAN: Thank you Chairperson for your accommodation and attitude.  Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your assistance to the legal representatives, Messrs Gordhan and Lalla, thank you.  We'll now adjourn until tomorrow morning at half past nine.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS