Human Rights Violation Hearings — Vryheid — 1997-04-16

WITNESS:   The door was locked, and they kicked it and it got opened, and there was such a loud noise soon after that.  We heard the black policemen saying, "Shoot him," and suddenly he was shot right then.  This took place within a short period of time.

MR LAX: Who actually did the shooting?  Which of the policemen?

WITNESS:   It was the white policeman who shot.

MR LAX: Now, you spoke about them looking for Mfana.

WITNESS:  Yes.

MR LAX: Is that Nkosinathi?  Is that the same person?

WITNESS:  Yes, that's the same person.  It was the uncle who was killed.

MR LAX: What is Nkosinathi's surname?

WITNESS:   Mdlalose is the surname. Did they arrest Nkosinathi at that time?   ---   Yes.  After that he got out from under the bed and was taken into the van, and in the van there were a lot of other youths.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... Nkosinathi.

WITNESS:   He was locked in the van and they started calling other police to come.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... after this in the next while was he - how long was he arrested for, and so on?

WITNESS:   Yes, he was arrested.  This happened on Thursday night.  He was arrested Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.  On Monday I went to rescue him and he was released on Monday.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... released?  At what place?

WITNESS:   Right here in Vryheid.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... court, was it at the police station?

WITNESS:   It was the police station.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... pay bail for him?

WITNESS:   Yes, I paid bail for him.

MR LAX: And did he go to court after that?

WITNESS:   They were all discharged.  They were released.  They were never arrested.

INTERPRETER: The speaker is not coherent at all.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... find out was there a case for which they were arrested, and were they charged, and what happened?

WITNESS:   That group of those boys we paid bail for this one, and the case went on until it just ended in the air.  That case of the policeman just ended like that.  We don't know the verdict.

MR LAX: Do you know did Nkosinathi have to pay a fine, or did he go to gaol for that case, or was he just acquitted?

WITNESS:   My mum paid bail for him, R100,00.

MR LAX: We will try and find out.  It's clear you're not sure what happened.  Just one last question, Chairperson.  Just one last question please.  These so-called Comrades which you refer to, what was their political affiliation?

WITNESS:   They were ANC members.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... the late Simon.

WITNESS:   He was within ANC organisation.

MR LAX: Sorry, there's just one more question that's occurred to me, Chairperson.  Did the police find any weapons in Simon's room?

WITNESS:   Anybody has weapons in their place, but I wouldn't know as to what kind of weapons he had, or if he had at all weapons, because he wasn't given an opportunity - or perhaps he didn't have an opportunity to fight back.

MR LAX: (Inaudible) ... ask you is you were present when they were there, when they took the body out.  They must have searched the room.

WITNESS:   When they fetched the corpse Mfana got out, and when Mfana was getting out they searched under the bed, only to find that there was an axe that was forever there.

MR LAX: (Inaudible)

WITNESS:   That is correct.

MR DLAMINI: Chairperson, sorry, I had indicated that I was returning to you.  I have one question that I forgot to ask.  According to your statement you have noted that some of the police who were at home that day when Simon was shot, Mr Pius Buthelezi, Mr Mbuyiseni Mthethwa.  Are they still police?

WITNESS:   Yes, they are.

MR DLAMINI: Do you ever see them?

WITNESS:   Yes, both of them.

MR DLAMINI: Are they still police both of them?

WITNESS:   Yes.

MR DLAMINI: Do they reside here in Vryheid?

WITNESS:   We reside in this new location and they reside on the other old location. Which one is the old location?   ---   No, right here there's a new location, and the old one was there for quite some time, from long back.

MR DLAMINI: No, we just wanted to establish if they are still police, and thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  One question I would like to ask you.  What is your grandchild doing?  Is he working?

WITNESS:   No, he isn't working.  He gets part-time jobs.

CHAIRPERSON: According to you since that time when his uncle was shot what would you say?  Do you think that affected him a great deal as a person?

WITNESS:   You know, after they kicked the door open Nkosinathi was taken to the van, and they came back to assault the uncle.

CHAIRPERSON: Now still Nkosinathi - I am still referring to Nkosinathi.  Was he affected, psychologically so, or does he suffer, or does he exhibit signs of being - of not being stable?

WITNESS:   He is okay.  He is fine.  He went up to form five with his high school studies.

CHAIRPERSON: And after that he could not go on?

WITNESS:   No, he could not further his studies after that.

CHAIRPERSON: One last thing I would like to know.  You have admittedly said that they were at the hall.  Now, tell us about the community.  How was the situation?  Was it stable or unstable?

WITNESS:   I don't know.

CHAIRPERSON: I am just referring to those days.  Those days how was the situation in the community?

WITNESS:   It wasn't stable at Bhekizulu, the community of Bhekizulu.  There was no stability at all.

CHAIRPERSON: Before then was there anything that happened or something?

WITNESS:   No, there wasn't.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Miss Bettina and Thandi for coming forward and sharing the story with us.  We know that at the time of this incident there were things that happened, people were shot, some sustained injuries, and even during the funeral people will get hurt.  Also it is known that the police were not taking these things to task, and you wouldn't know how far things go inasfar as the police were concerned.  Now, this is a part we really feel bad about, however we do thank you for coming forth and sharing this story.  And this is one way that will help the community, and even the police, to realise that things like this and atrocities like these should not go on at all.

CHAIRPERSON: We have briefers here with us who are helping, and the one seated right next to you will take you and lead you to other people who will give you help, and you will be helped.  And thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRPERSON

CHAIRPERSON: We will call our next witness, and her name is Lindiwe Francisca Zulu.
One other important thing that we would like to announce here, or to tell the public, is that there are people within ourselves here who were - who suffered a lot of things, and we would like to tell you that there's a green curtain there, and there are people who are statement-takers.  So anyone who would like to go to see them and give their statements will go and see those people.  They are behind that green curtain, and your statements will be taken there.  We will keep on taking the people to go there.  We thank you a lot, and we can realise now that there are people who are willing to go there and give their statements.  Thank you.
I would like to greet you, Miss Lindiwe.  Before you can start relating your story to us I would like you to stand up and swear.

LINDIWE FRANCISCA ZULU: (Sworn, States)

CHAIRPERSON: Miss Lindiwe, I would like to notify you that I will be the one who will be leading you, helping you to give your evidence.  But first of all I would like you to tell us about your background, family background, if you have parents?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have a mother.  My father died when I was still young.  And I also have a child who was born in 1981, the 12th of June.  He's a boy.  1981, June 12.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you have brothers and sisters?

WITNESS:   Yes, I do have a sister and two brothers.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your sister doing?

WITNESS:   They are all not working. How old is your sister?   ---   I am not certain about their ages.

CHAIRPERSON: Is she still at school?