Amnesty Hearings — Durban — 2000-07-27

MR LAX: Sorry, can I just clarify, was she living in eSikhawini when he last saw her in December '82?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: My sister was living at eSikhawini when I last saw her, but I was in KwaMashu, but we frequented her - I had gone to visit her.

MR LAX: Okay, so you actually saw her in KwaMashu.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: I had gone to visit her at eSikhawini.

MR LAX: Okay, fair enough.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, just before you proceed, MS Masetla, if you could just - how many brothers and sisters did you have?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: We were four sisters in the family and one brother, but of course two have since left us.  So we are now two sisters and one brother.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.  Mr Wills.

MR WILLS: Now just for the record, your brother is Themba Muzwake Kubheka, your surviving brother, and your surviving sister is Sibongile Gugu Kubheka, is that correct?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: That's true.

MR WILLS: And they too are both older than yourself?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, they are.

MR WILLS: Well they tell me that you are the person in the family that most resembles the deceased in this matter, would you agree with that?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, I would, it looks like ...(indistinct)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry we couldn't hear properly, there was some banging on the microphone.  Ms Masetla, do you mind just repeating that answer please.  The question was put to you by Mr Wills - well the statement was put to you by Mr Wills, that he's heard that of all the siblings you were the one that most resembled Ntombi in appearance.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, I agree.

MR WILLS: Now you had regular contact with your sister prior to you going into exile, can you briefly describe to the Committee the type of person that she was.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: If my memory serves me well, eSikhawini was opened around 1979 and then I went to stay with her.

MR WILLS: Carry on.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: That was because the husband then wasn't staying at eSikhawini, so she was on her own and the husband would go to eSikhawini over weekends because he was a taxi man.  But also additionally is the fact that I come from a very humble family.  My mother was a domestic servant and my father was a labourer and my sister being the eldest in the family, was more of a mother to us, to all of us, and as a result of that she left the school at an early age, she didn't finish - she didn't even go to her high school education because she had to help my parents with us because they couldn't afford to look after all five of us.  But especially with myself she was more of a mother because as Mr Wills has said, correctly so, that I was the baby of the family and she really looked after me.

CHAIRPERSON: How many years younger than her were you?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: I was born in 1958.

MR WILLS: I think approximately 19 years, is that correct?  She was born in '37.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: '46.

MR WILLS: Sorry, 12 years, yes.  Now what about her generosity?  You've indicated a story about her in KwaMashu when she was living with your mother at KwaMashu, I think it would be quite important for you to relate that to the Committee briefly.  The story about the children.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: My sister, as I've said because of the fact that she was the eldest and she felt like more of a mother, she behaved like more a mother to all of us.  She assumed that position and that was also clear with the children's neighbours or any other child that was younger than her that needed to be looked after.  And as a result our house ended up not just being a family house only, any other child that she would come across on the street, the child that is hungry, she would look after that child or start cooking, do all those things.
	But also it sums it up, the very fact that she looked after me as a mother, being the baby of the family and the very fact that when she took me to eSikhawini, she was my mother there.  She looked after me and anything that I needed I got from her.  The very fact that she even helped in schooling my brother, who then went to - proceeded with his education to high school level.  He went to boarding school.  All those responsibilities she assumed them to relieve my mother from them.

MR WILLS: Thank you.  Now what are the recollections of the physical appearance of your sister when you last saw her, which was late in 1982?  Can you comment on her height in relation to you?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: My sister was slightly taller than me, it might one or two centimetres as I'm 1.48.  She was slightly taller than me.

MR VISSER: I'm sorry, could I ask Ms Masetla to speak up, Chairperson, I've got my volume full blast on and she seems to swallow words that I don't quite hear.

CHAIRPERSON: Could you just please repeat that, Ms Masetla, you said she was slightly taller than you, and then you mentioned one or two centimetres, is that what you said?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes I have, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: And then did you mention your height?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Mine is about 1.48.

CHAIRPERSON: 1,48?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes.  Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.

MR WILLS: Now as regards to her general stature, her girth, I think you referred me to the photograph which appears in the bundle, Exhibit R, the colour photograph ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Which one in the bundle?

MR WILLS: It's the second-last photograph.  We haven't labelled these, Mr Chairperson ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct - no microphone) seems to be sitting on a fence post.

MR WILLS: Ja.  If we could just do that for convenience, Mr Chairperson.  If we go to Figure 25 ...

CHAIRPERSON: Yes I think so, Mr Wills, let's do that.  We've got Figure 25, which is the bullets and then we've got a mother and child photo, that will be Figure 26.  Then we have the photograph of Ntombi sitting on a bed, that will be Figure 27.  Then we have this one that you're talking about now, sitting outside a house, that will be Figure 28.  Then we have the one of standing next to a motor vehicle, that would be Figure 29.

MR LAX: 28 is what you're referred to as the "fence post"?

MR WILLS: Yes.  I'm showing the witness Figure 28 and just to get this in context, do you know when and who took this photograph?  When this photograph was taken and who took it.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: The photograph was taken by myself when I was living with her at eSikhawini.  That was around the period of 1982.

MR WILLS: So we can therefore assume that this is what she looked like when you last remembered her.

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: This is how she looked like.

MR WILLS: Now turning to the other photograph - I'm referring the witness, Mr Chairperson, to Figure 26, the mother and child photograph.  Now we know that - can you identify the baby in the photograph?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: The baby is her daughter, Tulisile.

MR WILLS: And the daughter was born on the 30th of March 1983, is that correct?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, it is.

MR WILLS: And you would estimate as - Mr Chairperson, I'm leading the witness to save time, if there're any objections obviously I will take them.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes.

MR WILLS: But your estimation is that the baby is approximately six months old in this photograph, is that correct?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, if my memory serves me right I had left already and this photograph might have been taken the second half of 1983.

MR WILLS: Yes.  But that's an assumption based on the age of the child?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, you say the photograph might have been taken in the second half of 1983?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, it's true Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry I must have got it wrong then.  So when was the child born, the 30th of March '83?

LYN MOTOKO MASETLA: Yes, it was Mr Chairman.

CHAIRPERSON: I've got '86 here, I don't know why.  So the photo must have been taken plus-minus, or during the course of the second half of 1983.