Human Rights Violation Hearings — Nelspruit — 1996-09-02

YASMINE SOOKA: Neville, before you begin your story, will you give us a little bit about yourself please.

MR SHABANGU: About my life history or ...

YASMINE SOOKA: A little bit about your life history, what you are doing now and what you did at the time in 1986.

MR SHABANGU: In 1983 and 1984 I started to work in the organisation.  In 1983 we started an organisation and we named it Lowveld Youth Movement.  Therefore in 1985 we started a UDF affiliated to that organisation too.  The UDF was the umbrella body.  We were busy, it is where I started being affected by what happened.

YASMINE SOOKA: Carry on.

MR SHABANGU: Can I ask - can I start with my story or what?

YASMINE SOOKA: Yes, you can.  You can start with your story.

MR SHABANGU: From 1986 we were harassed by police.  They used to visit us at home.  They came and questioned us which organisation or which (indistinct) especially the UDF, we are causing people to burn houses in the township.  But it wasn't like that.  Every time the police used to visit us at home.  If they could not find me they could find my brothers and they were also harassed by the police.  In March 1986 there were children who were in the prison in our location.  They were taken to Mbeweni magistrate court.  As children we were supporting each other during those times.  The others
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went to support those who were in prison.  On their arrival to Mboweni magistrate court is where the child of my sister was shot.  From there the police were the enemies.  We could not even see each other.  They used to visit us.  They used to wake us at night searching the houses.  They took our books, video cassettes, they could take everything which they wanted where they could believe they can get information from.  We buried our sister's child in March 1986.  After the funeral, I am sure it was about a month from the funeral, is it where then I become also wounded, when our house was burnt.  After the burning of the house I went to the hospital in Rob Ferreira.  The people in the hospital could not meet me, they said I must go to Mboweni because this was not a hospital for the blacks.  Mboweni hospital was the hospital for the blacks.  Fortunately my sister was there working.  He fought with the doctors until I was admitted.  I was then I had 45 per cent burns.   I stayed in the hospital.  The following day after my admission a certain John Welthouse arrived.  He was the one who used to visit us at home and Greyling and Visser.  They came to me in the hospital to question who burnt me.  Because I had no enemy beside the police I told them that the police did burn me.  They could not want to agree to that.  They told me that I am mad.  I stayed in the hospital for three and a half month.  I wasn't well but the people in the hospital told me that I have to go out because there are many patients there.  I was therefore discharged.  I went home, I only stayed at home for one day.  The following day there was a state of emergency and I was detained.  I was taken to prison and I was tortured and I was wounded by that time I was still suffering the pain.  Then they were
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torturing us in the police station. They used to give us one meal per day.  We could not get enough food.  We used to get food only once per day.  They therefore transferred us from the police station to the prison. We went to the prison.  We spent about three months in prison.  There in the police station I was tortured.  My hands were tied from the back, they were blindfolding me on my eyes and they beat me.  I could not even protect myself.  There were many people surrounding me, I can't even see them.  I was tortured and they beat me and I was building (?).  They fetched for me the doctor to treat me in the cell, they could not agree that someone can come in the cell there.  Therefore they transferred us to the prison where we stayed for three months.  It is there where Judge Goldstone visited us. He was the first person to visit us.  There was more visitors even the parents, friends, lawyers were not allowed to visit us and to see us.  We therefore saw Mr Goldstone.  It is where we talked to him and our complaint and laid charges, it was on Friday.  On Monday I was released.  I went out and I went home.

YASMINE SOOKA: Before I hand you over to the other Commissioners, I would just like to ask you a few questions please.  Could you tell me who you think set your house alight please.

MR SHABANGU: I think the police because it wasn't for the first time that they burn houses.  The people whom we were working with in the struggle, they burnt their houses too.

YASMINE SOOKA: In your statement you mentioned that you think the police hired a special group of people.  Do you want to tell us about that please.

MR SHABANGU: Yes, there were police and a group working
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together with the police.  They called them Gabasa group.  Those people were the group that were burning children, shooting them.  They were attacking people.   Where you would think that the police were not involved while they were involved.  They were working hand in hand with the police even during our torture and interrogation in the prison they were around the prison helping the police. They couldn't be walking around and yet they were not in collaboration with the police.

YASMINE SOOKA: You also mentioned in your story that you had buried your sister's son.  Why was he shot?  Was he also a member of the UDF?

MR SHABANGU: No, he was not a member.  He was too young.  He was about 16 years old, he was not a member yet of the UDF.  He was just a small boy, he was just a follower to go and listen at the hearings at the magistrate court.

YASMINE SOOKA: What were these hearings about?

MR SHABANGU: It was actually about some young people who actually burnt the cars.  They burnt the cars and they were then arrested.  That is the reason why they were taken to - they had to appear before the Court.  So the friends went actually as a way of supporting them.  They were charged for public violence.

YASMINE SOOKA: At the time when you were detained you mentioned that a state of emergency was declared and then you and other members of the UDF were detained.  Could you tell us how many of you were detained please.

MR SHABANGU: There were many members because myself, I was arrested together with my brother and another friend of ours was also arrested together with his brother.  I remember those who were detained at that time we were around about
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eight.  And some were from other places.  All in all these people while we were in prison we were about 50.  Some were left behind at the police station.  I don't know how many were there.

YASMINE SOOKA: The people who tortured you at the police station, do you have their names for us?

MR SHABANGU: I have got the name of John Walters.  He was actually the leading person.  He is the person who took me around to the fifth floor and he blindfolded me and some of his colleagues came after I was blindfolded then I could not see them.

YASMINE SOOKA: When Judge Goldstone came to see you at the prison, can you tell us if he took a statement from
you?

MR SHABANGU: Judge Goldstone he was just visiting the people who were detained then.   And then he said to us we should go and lay charges at the police station after our release.

YASMINE SOOKA: Did you follow his advice and lay charges against the police?

MR SHABANGU: I did not go to lay charges because the people who tortured me I cannot go to the very same people who tortured me to go and open a case.  I think there is nothing that can happen.

YASMINE SOOKA: Since that time did anybody - did they ever open any case about the burning of your house?