Amnesty Hearings — Vanderbijlpark — 1999-05-18

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well.  Well we can assure you that we will keep a check on what you say.
	Ms Cambanis, I am informed by the interpreters that although they are not fluent in Xhosa they do understand Xhosa and if they get stuck, because of certain words, they will indicate that and my colleague, Advocate Sigodi and myself do understand Xhosa as well.  But if you have any objection to us proceeding, the witness would have to stand down and perhaps you can call another witness and we can see whether we can arrange some other interpreter.

UNKNOWN: Chair, we have no objection, we'd like to proceed.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, very well.  If you get stuck, would you please indicate to us?

INTERPRETER: Yes, Chairperson, will do.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, very well.

UNKNOWN: Thank you, Chair.
	Mrs Buwa, on the 17th of June 1992, were you ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: No, wait a minute.  She has to, Ma'am, otherwise she is not going to hear the interpretation.
PROBLEMS WITH EARPHONES

UNKNOWN: Thank you very much, Chair.
	Mrs Buwa, on the 17th of June 1992, were you a resident of Boipatong township?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: At what address were you living on that day?

ELSIE BUWA: 807 Bafokeng Street.

UNKNOWN: Would you please proceed to tell the Committee what happened during the course of that evening at your house?

ELSIE BUWA: We were asleep in the evening.  As I awoke I heard gunshots ...(intervention)

ADV SIGODI: Sorry, sorry.  Mrs Buwa, we would like you to speak loudly so that we can hear, we'd like to hear your Xhosa version as well, thank you.

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I will try although I do not have a high voice.  I have a problem with my head, it usually gives me problems if I speak too loudly.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you in a position to testify?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I can testify.

CHAIRPERSON: Alright.

UNKNOWN: Alright.  Mrs Buwa, you said that
"We were asleep at the house"
Who is the "we" that you are referring to?

ELSIE BUWA: Myself and the children.

UNKNOWN: Please tell the Committee who the children were, are.

ELSIE BUWA: ... the eldest is Gladys, then Miriam, Mavis.  I was sleeping with these children in the bedroom.

UNKNOWN: Sorry, Mrs Buwa, before you proceed, you were sleeping with these three persons in one room, were there other people at your home that night?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes there were other people sleeping in other bedrooms.

UNKNOWN: Please tell us the names of the other people and which rooms they were in, as far as you know.

ELSIE BUWA: My other children, my sons were in their bedroom because there were three bedrooms in the house.  My son, John Buwa was in another room together with his wife.

UNKNOWN: Tell us the name of his wife please.

ELSIE BUWA: I forget her name.  She's Martha, Martha Buwa.

UNKNOWN: Okay.  In the third room, was there anyone present that night in the third room in your home?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, there were sons or boys sleeping in that room that night.

UNKNOWN: Do you remember who they were, Mr Buwa?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, I do remember.  The first one is James Buwa, the second is Victor Buwa, the third is Phillip Buwa and the fourth one is Harry Buwa, my youngest son.

UNKNOWN: Harry.

CHAIRPERSON: Did you say Henry?

UNKNOWN: Harry.

CHAIRPERSON: Harry, yes very well, sorry.  This is the youngest is it?

ELSIE BUWA: He's my  youngest some.

UNKNOWN: Okay.  Mrs Buwa, then you've told the Committee that you were asleep in your room with the children when you were awoken by gunshots, is that correct? - by the sound of gunshots.

ELSIE BUWA: That is correct.

UNKNOWN: Please tell the Committee what happened after you heard the sounds.

ELSIE BUWA: After that gunshot I woke up and I hid some of the children.  After the children had hidden I sat on top of the bed, I did not hide myself.  I was confused as to what was happening, why was this gunfire.
	People came into the house, three persons. They came into my bedroom ...(intervention)

CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, could you just slow down so that we can take down the notes, Ma'am.

ELSIE BUWA: Okay.

CHAIRPERSON: I'll tell you where I am now.
"I stayed on top ....".  "After the children had hidden I stayed on top of the bed"
Yes, right?

ELSIE BUWA: As I sat on top of the bed three people entered the room.  I saw the first person, I recognised the one person, but I did not know the other two.

UNKNOWN: Who did you recognise?

ELSIE BUWA: It was Zulu, we call him Zulu.  That is how we call him in the township.

UNKNOWN: Who is that?

ELSIE BUWA: I've recently heard that he's Vanana Zulu, but we just called him Zulu.

UNKNOWN: Okay.  Mrs Buwa, you say the first person that you recognised was Mr Vanana Zulu, what was he doing?  What did he do?  What happened?

ELSIE BUWA: They just entered the room and started assaulting us.  They assaulted me on the head.  I fell onto the ground.  After I'd fallen one grandchild came into the room looking for his mother ...(intervention)

MR LAX: Can you just slow down a little bit please.  Sorry, we're just struggling to take it all in.  You said you were hit on the head, you fell on the ground.  Then after that?

ELSIE BUWA: One grandchild that high, came into the room.  The grandchild was running to me.  They hit the grandchild on the head and as I raised my hand they hurt my finger and the grandchild ran to me.

UNKNOWN: Just slow ...  Thank you, Chair.  Can we just go back.  Mrs Buwa you said three people entered the room, one of whom you recognised as Vanana Zulu.

ELSIE BUWA: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Is there any further information you can give the Committee regarding the other two people?  Were they male people that came in, any information?

ELSIE BUWA: They were male, but I did not know them.

UNKNOWN: And were any of the three people carrying anything?

ELSIE BUWA: They were armed because they hacked Mavis on the head.  They hacked her.  She had a blanket on her head and her blanket was stuck on the head, it had to be removed at the hospital.

UNKNOWN: Did you see which of the three persons did this to Mavis?

ELSIE BUWA: Excuse me?

UNKNOWN: Which of the three people did this to Mavis, did you see?

ELSIE BUWA: It was between the two, because Mr Zulu was by my side.

UNKNOWN: Yes.  And the person that, you said you were also attacked, is that correct?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes.  As I raised my hand to try to reach my grandchild, Mr Zulu said: "You are still alive, I thought you were dead".  He hit me, assaulted me again, hacking me.

MR LAX: Sorry, I didn't catch the last part of what the interpreter said, could you just repeat that please?

INTERPRETER: Which part?

MR LAX: "He hit me ..." and then something else, I'm afraid it sounded a bit mumbled to me.  I didn't catch the last bit.

INTERPRETER: The witness said Mr Zulu assaulted her again, and in fact she specified that he hacked her.

CHAIRPERSON: With what?

ELSIE BUWA: He was carrying something.  I'm not sure whether it was a panga, but it was a black, it was black on the handle.

UNKNOWN: Mrs Buwa, you said that Mr Vanana Zulu asked you: "Are you still alive?"

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, he said: "I thought you were dead, you are still able to protect the children".

UNKNOWN: Had you known Mr Zulu for some time before that evening?

ELSIE BUWA: I know him.  His in-law's house is in our street, the Motho's.  He would even take our children to the hostel to perform a dance, a traditional dance.

UNKNOWN: Besides that, do you recall him saying anything else to you?

ELSIE BUWA: As they were leaving he insulted me and kicked me on the head and said: "Die you dogs".  That is when they were leaving my house.  And as he was outside he shouted, he said: "Come out you comrades, we have arrived".

UNKNOWN: Mrs Buwa, can I just clear this.  After you were attacked you said your grandchild came running into the room, is that right?

ELSIE BUWA: Yes, he came into our bedroom.

UNKNOWN: And then what happened?