Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-03-09

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: As I was still home when I arrived my neighbour came and they were crying, screaming, asking as to what happened.  I told them that I left my fellow brothers in the shack there, that's where they're being kept - now I have a problem, you see I'm bleeding profusely now and I don't even have money to go to the hospital and the woman gave me R20, now the lady who is our neighbour gave me R20.

MR MAPOMA: Is that how you happened to go to the hospital?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes I got into a taxi and I left for the hospital.  When I came back from hospital, I never went back to 6, instead I went to my mom's home at Saluma.  At about 5 in the afternoon I met one boy who was residing at 6 - I don't quite remember his name.  He said to me all the boys that you've been captured with and were kept in the shack have been killed.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Mr Mtwalo, that's all Chairperson, thanks.

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: That's how I was saved in the whole ordeal.  Now the person who helped me in this was Armoed.  Had it not been for him I know I would have been killed today.  Now I do forgive Armoed and the one who stabbed me and wired me with I don't forgive them, I don't have any forgiveness for them.

MR MAPOMA: Thank you Chairperson, that's all.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the neighbour who gave you the sum of R20 to go to the hospital?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes it's Mabastayas mom.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Madasa?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MADASA

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.
	Now when you were picked up at home was it dark in the shack?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: It was in the morning about eight.

MR MADASA: Sonti says you were mistaken, you were stabbed by - he says yes you were stabbed but by Holomisa - were you stabbed by Holomisa?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I was stabbed by Ntebe, I don't know Holomisa.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know Mr Sonti?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I know him very well because I marked his face.

MR SIBANYONI: Had you seen him for the first time on that particular day?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I beg you pardon?

MR SIBANYONI: Had you seen Mr Ndabe as you call Mr Sonti - were you seeing him for the first time on the day when he came there and stabbed you?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I wasn't seeing him for the first time that day.

MR MADASA: Or you were not that acquainted to him?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I knew him well see because he was also from 6, a resident of 6.

MR MADASA: When you were stabbed what were you doing?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I was resisting to get out of the shack of home in other words, to get out of my home.

MR MADASA: How many of them were inside when you were stabbed?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Two people came in and the others remained outside.  I was taken outside to them and then that's when we left.

MR MADASA: When you were stabbed only two people were inside?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know Holomisa that was referred to by [indistinct].

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Maybe I know him from seeing him but I wouldn't claim I know him.

CHAIRPERSON: What is your answer, do you know Holomisa or don't you know him?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No.

MR MADASA: Do you know who was the other person who was inside with Ndabe when you were stabbed?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I saw Oscar.

MR MADASA: ...[inaudible] the inside?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes.

MR MADASA: Is it not possible that when you were stabbed you did not see who was stabbing you but you thought it was Sonti?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No I saw him, he tried to stab me right on the chest and I retreated, that's how he stabbed me on the arm.

CHAIRPERSON: He tried to stab you on the chest and you avoided the blow with your right arm and you were stabbed?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: And he stabbed me on my arm.

MR MADASA: Did he say anything before he stabbed you?  Did Sonti say anything to you before he stabbed you?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes he said we are here to fetch you, to pick you up, let's go and I refused thus he stabbed me.

MR MADASA: Now when you were at the shack, the first shack, are you saying people who wanted to ask you questions were able to do so?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No, no people came in to ask us questions.

MR MADASA: In your evidence in chief, that people came in and asked what had happened?

CHAIRPERSON: People were asking:  'What have you done, boys?'

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes that's how they were asking.

MR MADASA: The thing is, people who wanted to ask you questions could do so?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: If I'm not lying one man came in and I did not know him, he was a third man, he came holding a pistol.  When he was asking he would be kicking us at the same time and saying we should tell the truth to what we have done.

MR MADASA: If they wanted to ask you questions, could they ask?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: The lady who came in was Dumeleng's mom.

MR MADASA: What did she say?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: She said she was coming to talk or speak on behalf of her child and she was pushed outside.

MR MADASA: Who said the criminals were trying to free themselves?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: One woman who resided in Block F, I'm not even too sure, she came through - she peeped through that door and that's what she said.

MR MADASA: Now, you said, Rodrick Singo, number 8, tried to attack you with an axe but the axe landed on the - in the sink or corrugated iron.  Was he not scaring you?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: I wouldn't know but I thought that he was stabbing, it just hung on the corrugated iron.  What if it got free?

MR MADASA: I mean what if he wanted to chop you, he could have chopped you?

CHAIRPERSON: But Mr Madasa, what the witness is saying that is that he wanted to but the axe got stuck in the corrugated iron.

MR MADASA: Thank you Mr Chair.  I'm saying, Mr Chair, if Singo, Mr Singo wanted to chop you he could have pulled the axe and chopped you.  Is that so?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: It got stuck there and he also took it so he still had it on his hand, it never got stuck there forever.  He pulled it, it got stuck on the corrugated iron and he took it back.  He was trying to chop me this way and that's what happened but he still had it on his hand.  He didn't try to chop me after that.

MR MADASA: Now when you were inside the shack were your friends asked questions about Blanko or Bulelwa's death?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No but what I know is what I heard from Mr Manzini.  He was saying something to this effect that we are following Blanko today.

MR MADASA: Were there any accusations directed at you or your friends?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Please repeat that question?

MR MADASA: Were you or your friends accused of having done something?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: From what I think, maybe it was due to Blanko's death.

CHAIRPERSON: But did - I think what counsel wants to find out from you is - did anyone make any accusations against any one of you in the shack?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: As I said only this man who had a pistol in his hand and came in and kept kicking us and others were crying.  Because I did not know, I was quiet, I wasn't being asked a lot but they were asking the others and they would cry as they were being asked.

MR MADASA: They were told to tell the truth.  Were you told what truth you've got to tell?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: Yes this man came in and we were tied with this wire.  He said we must tell the truth and, no I don't remember.

MR MADASA: Were you told what was the problem, why you were kept there?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No I did not hear anything to that effect.

MR MALAN: Sorry, may I just ask here, were you never told that they wanted the truth about Blanko's death?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No.

MR MADASA: Was Thokozani Buthelezi there?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: The thing is I don't know Thokozani Buthelezi.

MR MADASA: The senior?

JABULANI AMON MTWALO: No.  No.