Human Rights Violation Hearings — Durban — 1996-08-29

DR MAGWAZA: Well, Mr Mthembu, we hear your story.  It's such a sad story, but you are gifted, because the way you relate your story you also related it in such a way that it becomes a joke and people can laugh to it.  Let's come to the poison, because you have said something about the poison.

WITNESS:   No, the nurses thought the poison came from the hospital.  That's when I called for the nurse to call the doctors, because that's when, after eating my bananas, I thought I had eaten poison.  And my doctor said, "It's poison definitely."  And I asked, "Is this poison?"  The doctor said, "Yes, it's poison."  But let me explain this to you.  You see there are two things now that are emanating.  There is this leg, we have a problem with this thigh, and also a poison.

DR MAGWAZA: But the poison story is finished, it's all over, but let's concentrate now on your leg.

WITNESS:   Just before I go even further let me go back to this day when we were injured.  You see, the people who were shooting at home - you see the road passes Nazane's store.  There were police there, and the police were just standing there, and they gathered there.  They were in the verandah.  And when they came back from my house they started shooting.  I tried to pass on the message to one of the police at 391 to tell them that they were police, that I usually forget to report, that they should come and relate the harassment that they went through.  Because they were shot also, but they managed to survive and escape, but one died.  Well, not from the incident, he died in the rural areas, but the two others survived, and the other one cannot properly walk even to this day.  And they were older people.  That I would wish to also let you aware of this.

DR MAGWAZA: Well, thank you very much, Mr Mthembu, because we are still listening to you and what happened ... (incomplete - end of side A) ... find them.  Did you get to see them, or later on did you get to identify them?

WITNESS:   No, I never got to identify them or know them, because even this man - well, because of the way the police were so clever they did not even touch my case.  But it's quite clear that he has something to do with this.  Definitely he has something to do with this, because it was a person who will have altercations at times with, because I remember this time I was a chairman at Stanger, and he came so stubbornly and critical as well, never wanting to be supportive.  So I think strongly that he has something to do with this.

DR MAGWAZA: This Makhatini, where is he?

WITNESS:   I don't know what I will say now, because I was still at the hospital.  I just heard that they were talking at the rank, and Jamile was there, and Makhatini left to his business at Clermont.  And after some time a few boys came and they shot him, and he died there.

DR MAGWAZA: I would like to know now about your health and your wife's health.  How did this impact on your health, both of you?

WITNESS:   I will say this is so fortunate, and I do believe that when it's not your time yet to die you will survive whatever incident that transpires.  The way that happened, the way this whole thing took place, and my wife's eardrum was severely affected, but she survived the incident.  At times I forget, you know, that she cannot hear properly.  You will hear me now shouting so strong that she cannot hear me.  You know we have been severely harassed, but thank God, because we are still brave and we are still intact.  As I have already said that I have this pin in my leg.  I do get pains from it.  Even though I get pains I don't show it that I am going through pains.  I am always in a jubilant mood.  And one other thing.  As these boys or these gentlemen woke me up at one, since then, since that day, every time when one strikes I open my eyes and I wake up.  We left Clermont.  Not because I was afraid or scared, but I will always imagine - I had those imaginations seeing those people attacking, so I had that kind of picture in my mind, so I decided for me to have peace of mind I should leave this place.  But every time I want to assure you this, I wake up at one.  Each time one strikes I wake up, probably up until four, and that's when I will fall asleep again since that day.

DR MAGWAZA: Now, what about your wife.  It's only the ear, the eardrum?

WITNESS:   Yes, it's the ear.  And also when she thinks about this and the past she will ask me, "Why were we attacked that bad?  What did we do?  What had we taken from other people?  Why?  Because we had no altercations with other people.  What was the cause of the attack?"  But we are glad that there are people who can enlist some help and help us to a great extent, like psychologists, because having gone through what we have gone it's so serious. You cannot just take it normal.  It's an abnormal situation, so we would like and we are happy because we still have psychologists.  Even the people who did this, and the very one who sent them, we - you know, you must know as a person that you have a conscience, and God has created us in such a way that we have those conscience, guilty conscience, and I think he is the one who is undergoing atrocities more than I did because of the guilty conscience.

DR MAGWAZA: Did you report this matter to the police?

WITNESS:   Yes, we did at the Dabeka Police Station.  It took so long for a long time before these police could attend this case, so that if we didn't even try to take some initiative no one would have go to know who the instigators were.  We eventually went to the police station to report this, but what surprised me was that not even one said something about this thing.  It just died a natural death.  That was it.

DR MAGWAZA: Do you happen to know of any of the policemen, probably the name of a policeman or something?

WITNESS:   Well, the police were from Dabeka Police Station.  There was one who used to come to get statements from me at the hospital.  I think it's Dlamini, but I am not too sure.  But the case was sent to Madlala by me, because he phoned to ask the case number.  I think he has the information.   Well, something else that you could give us some - you know, we'll appreciate if you could give us some hospital records for our records.   ---   Yes, I have those records, the hospital card.  I can supply that to you.

DR MAGWAZA: Lastly, finally, what is your wish, and what would you like to request from the Truth Commission?

WITNESS:   My wish to the TRC is the one that we will -  is this one.  We will be very happy to have the perpetrators come forward, the ones who attacked us.  Those perpetrators must come forward.  I just want to look at them, even I know I can't do them anything.  Just to look at them, that will be fulfilling to me.  And second this person must say as to why he did this, and who sent him, and how much was he going to earn from committing this act.  And also one thing that I think about is that he could have killed us, but he did not know our children's whereabouts.  He did not know where our children were, and that was foolish of him, because he, yes, could have killed us, but our children were going to survive.  I would like for the Truth Commission and the police also to investigate even further, because it's known that things cannot just transpire and happen, events cannot just take place with no one behind them.

DR MAGWAZA: We thank you very much.  You have just reminded us of what Clermont went through.  The Truth Commission investigation will be dealing with this.  They will investigate this matter even further, and we will make some recommendations and forward them to the State President, and I will hand over to the Chairperson.