Human Rights Violation Hearings — Empangeni — 1996-11-06

CHAIRPERSON:  Is the Mbonambi Police Station SAP or was it at that stage KwaZulu Police?

WITNESS:   SAP.

CHAIRPERSON:  And your health now, Mr Mchunu.  How are you affected in your daily life from your injuries?

WITNESS:   This affected me badly, because I can't even work.  Physically I'm not well.

CHAIRPERSON:  And how are you supporting your wife and your family?

WITNESS:   I do have other means, because I have a tractor and I'm planting.  I also have a bakkie.  That's how we are surviving at this moment.

CHAIRPERSON:  And how are things at Sokhulu at the moment?  Have they quietened down?

WITNESS:   People aren't fighting any more, but the way I see things, people aren't happy.  It's just that we aren't experiencing the violence any more.

CHAIRPERSON: I'll ask my colleagues if they want to ask some questions.

KHOZA MGOJO: Mr Mchunu, I just want you to verify one thing.  You just said the people aren't happy from Sokhulu, but there is no political violence any more.

WITNESS:   Yes, I'm saying this statement because I'm comparing the situation which we used to live in before the political violence and after the political violence.  It's different.  There's no political violence any more, but still people aren't friendly with each other.  They aren't happy.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is this a rural area or a location?

WITNESS:   This is a rural area and it's under the chieftainship of Mr Mhloleni Mthiyane.  Even though I don't have an exact answer, but I think he's just like that.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What do you mean when you say he's like that?

WITNESS:  I'm trying to tell you that the situation hasn't yet gone back to what it used to be before the political violence.

KHOZA MGOJO:  What does the chief say about the whole situation?  Usually the chief calls meetings.

WITNESS:   Yes, our chief does call for meetings sometimes.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Was there any incident where the chief did something like bringing all of you together for peace sake?

WITNESS:   He tried and then after that people got involved in political violence and again they said we should go to Ulundi for a peace operation and I didn't go there, because I didn't trust that call.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Now that you are here, what do you want to tell us?

WITNESS:   I am here because I need you to investigate for me and find out more about why I was hurt.  Ngubo must come and tell me why he did what he did.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Is that all?  What about the maintenance of your family?

WITNESS:   I asked the Commission that I should receive a pension, but when they explained to me about the pension they told me that if you take a pension this year and if during the year you have your vegetables then end of the year you don't have a right to have money.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Okay, is that true?   No, not true.

WITNESS:   I asked about this thing.  Someone explained to me that if you take a pension you belong to the Government.  Therefore they don't expect you to have money in the bank, more money.

CHAIRPERSON: Ja, that's right.  You know, if you apply for an old-age pension or a disability pension, but he's talking about a TRC pension.  We're not giving out pensions.

KHOZA MGOJO: Now, I think there is some truth in what you said, even though I don't have a full knowledge of that and another thing, we don't give pensions.  We, as Commission, we don't give pension.  What we are going to do, we are going ask pension for you.  The Government is the one who gives pension.  Did you apply for disability grant?

WITNESS:   No.

KHOZA MGOJO:  Don't you think it's much better if you apply for disability grant, because that's different from pension?  That's my advice.  If you can try and apply for a disability grant.  If you can get hold of our social workers, they might be able to help you.  Are you well?  How are you and your family psychologically?

WITNESS:   I am not quite sure because I think someone can tell if you are mentally disturbed, not yourself.  You can't diagnose yourself as mentally disturbed.

KHOZA MGOJO: 6b/0

CHAIRPERSON: Is there anything which your wife wants to add?  Mrs Mchunu, is there anything which she wants to say about what happened?

WITNESS:   I think she got worse after her miscarriage.  I used to take her to the doctor and now that I'm not working and I don't have money now I'm taking her to clinic, so I'm no longer taking her to doctors regularly like before and other doctors are expensive, more especially specialists.

CHAIRPERSON:  Is there anything that she wants to say personally?  She doesn't have to.

WITNESS:   (Mrs Mchunu replies:)  I would like to say something.  I would like a medical aid, so that I can be able to take my children to the doctors, because we aren't well.  We are sickly.

KHOZA MGOJO: We thought like that because you have small kids.  We thought you will need assistance because the children are still young.  We will take your request.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mchunu, thank you very much to you and your wife and your small baby for coming in here today.  You've told us not just about what happened to you, the attack on you by these two people, but also you wanted to tell us about other people who suffered in Sokhulu, and we are grateful to you for telling us that.  We know from other witnesses about how people suffered in Sokhulu.  We know about how the KwaZulu Police operated there with the stability unit and we've heard lots of other bad stories about the KwaMbonambi Police.  And the remark that you made about how people aren't happy in Sokhulu, it's not good enough that just the fighting stopped, the people should know why there was violence there and they should know who caused the violence and they should also know the names of the police who participated in that violence, because those policemen should be exposed, and the fact that you have come here today has also helped to expose what happened there and the activities of the police and so your story is important here today.  You brought your small baby here.  He's not even old enough to know that he's sitting here in front of the television, but we hope that when he grows up he will grow up into a happier world than the one that we grew up in and we hope that you look after him and that he grows up happy and safe from violence.  Thank you very much for coming here today.

WITNESS:   Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: /CHAIRMAN