Special Hearings — Business Hearings — 1997-11-13

DR DULNY: In terms of reparation the things that are being discussed, is we do make money on lending to commercial farmers, should not a portion of this, a percentage of this money go in for a special ground funding for reparations?
 That will be one area of reparations.  The farmers have raised -  the White commercial farmers have raised that they don't want the Land Bank to be doing cross subsidisation, but I think reparation does mean redistribution and so if we do make money on lending to commercial White farmers, then it seems appropriate in terms of reparation, that a percentage of this should go into a special fund.
 The other thing is that we have bought in properties which are the result of (indistinct) and at the moment they are, they are sold to the highest bidder at the greatest speed and that is almost invariably White.  The board has put a moratorium on the sale of properties, because it says it wants to re-look at the process and I would like a new process in place where, in previously disadvantaged people and land reformed beneficiaries, get first call on those properties to see if they are appropriate for land settlement.
 The third area is affirmative action.  I mean we had, on the 1st of May, we had a senior staff of 75 people who were totally White and of those 75 people, 77 people, the first 75 were White male and then 76 and 77 were White female in senior administrative positions.
 We have in the last five months employed 9 senior managers and of those they are women and Blacks.  So that original total of 77 has already dramatically changed in five months.

RUSSELL ALLY: Just a final question from me.  You know better than what I do that land is an emotive issue in this country.  Probably one of the most, given the history.
 Do you think that we will be able to address this question of land and the legacy in a way that can really promote reconciliation and I'm sure the Chairman will allow you to give both answers?

MR JACK: I think we definitely can do that.  The Land Bank is part and parcel of a complex of support services.  It's only providing finance.  We do have the land reform programme by the Minister of Land Affairs.  We do have other supportive activities, you know, extension, marketing and so forth.
 So, the Land Bank is involved in discussions with the Minister of Land Affairs, also with the farmers themselves so that we can come up with an approach that is going to get everyone on board in terms of this process.
 As you know, if you take a (indistinct) it might not succeed, it might created more emotions.  So we are aware, you know, that that's a problem, but we are in the process for testing that.

CHAIRPERSON: Dr Boraine?

DR BORAINE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mkhize?  Dr Dulny and your colleagues, thank you for coming.  Let me just say that many groups who've come through these institutional hearings have commented about the pain that the organisations have had to go through in writing up their documentation and I think what you expressed in your opening remarks is part of the difficulties and the pain that the Land Bank is going through right now.
 We record that we have two documents from you at the moment.  I hope that in the next few months we'll receive one consolidated document from you that can go forward in writing our document.
 Thank you very much for coming.
I ask the Chamber of Mines to come forward, please.  Mr Segal, good morning.  Do you want to please start by introducing your delegation or is Mr Godsell going to introduce the delegation?

MR GODSELL: Mr Chairman, the delegation consists of Adrian du Plessis, seen on the right, the industrial relations advisor of the Chamber of Mines, Dr Nick Segal, immediate past president of the Chamber and current vice president and myself, Bobby Godsell, the current president of the Chamber of Mines.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Godsell.  Are all of you going to speak or ... (intervention).

MR GODSELL: In all likelihood, yes, we're certainly all available to answer questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Will you all then stand?  Dr Ally.

RUSSELL ALLY: Will you take the oath or the affirmation?

MR GODSELL: The affirmation.

RUSSELL ALLY: The affirmation.

BOBBY GODSELL NICK SEGAL ADRIAN DU PLESSIS: (Duly sworn in, states).

RUSSELL ALLY: Thank you.  Then you can begin.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.  Please commence.

MR GODSELL: Mr Chairman, just by way of introduction, this is an organisation that represents the employers in the South African mining industry, with our membership predominantly, but not exclusively drawn from the Coal and Gold mining sectors.
 Mr Du Plessis will talk to our submission.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Du Plessis, I may also remind you that you have 15 minutes.