Amnesty Hearings — Boksburg — 1998-06-22

MR LANDMAN: Did you participate in the throwing of the pipe bombs?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairman, I was not part of it but I was present when it was demonstrated and I transported it from Koesterfontein to the game farm.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr De Wet, you gave evidence or testified as far as I remember that you reconciled yourself with the pipe bombs and that which was done with it?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: In the light of that, can you maybe answer again to the question that Mr Landman asked you about why pipe bombs were used?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, all that I can add there is that that is to create further chaos in order to stop the election.  That is my personal opinion and that is how I saw it.

CHAIRPERSON: It is not a question that you cannot answer the question because you did not do the planning?

JAN B DE WET: I did not do any planning regarding the pipe bombs because I did reconcile myself with the group with whom I was at that stage.

MR LANDMAN: Mr De Wet, when you drew up your application for amnesty, did you try to put in all the facts that you knew, that might be relevant to your application?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, when my Advocates for Barnard, Le Roux and Myburgh was us in prison, we consulted together.
	I gave them my version and asked the Advocates to submit my application as close as possible to what I have given them.

MR LANDMAN: Did you leave anything out of your application?

JAN B DE WET: Sir, if I can say the biggest detail is not included but the matter that it is about, does appear.

MR LANDMAN: Did you know that you were applying for amnesty for offences which you hadn't been convicted of?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, Mr Chairperson, the day when I was sentenced in the High Court, the Judge I cannot remember his surname, the Judge said that I will be charged for everything.

MR LANDMAN: Did he say you were found guilty for everything?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct Mr Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: Are you guilty of the Bree Street bomb?

JAN B DE WET: No, Mr Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: You had nothing to do with that?  You had nothing to do with planning it or committing that act at all?

JAN B DE WET: No, I was not involved in the Bree Street bombing at all.

MR LANDMAN: You went to Ventersdorp in April in order to protect the borders of your Volkstaat?

CHAIRPERSON: No, he said Mr Landman that the only reason going to Ventersdorp was the intention of stopping the elections.

MR LANDMAN: Thank you, I apologise.

CHAIRPERSON: It is different from the previous evidence.

MR LANDMAN: Thank you.  Mr De Wet, maybe you can tell us again, why did you go to Ventersdorp?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, in Ventersdorp I worked there after I got a package at the mine.
	There I started a guard unit in order to protect Mr Terreblanche and his family as well as the Staff Generals.  Afterwards I left Ventersdorp because of, in order to build myself financially.  I was called up to go to Ventersdorp and it was there that I could not attend the Trim Park meeting.  I gave evidence today, it was the 21st or the 22nd according to Brigadier Leon van der Merwe, where I received the instructions that were given at Trim Park, from him.

MR LANDMAN: What instructions did you receive at the Trim Park, at Brigadier van der Merwe?

JAN B DE WET: Brigadier Van der Merwe, Johan Smit was there and it was told to me that it is war, that I must find a secure place where I could put my wife and children and later on, I will receive further instructions.

CHAIRPERSON: When you left your home and went to Ventersdorp, why did you go to Ventersdorp?

JAN B DE WET: To go and hear what the instructions were that was given to the people at Trim Park.

MR LANDMAN: Mr De Wet, at the time you went to Ventersdorp, that day, you didn't know what the reason was for being called to Ventersdorp?

JAN B DE WET: No Mr Chairperson, I did not know.

MR LANDMAN: And you ended up going to the game farm where you actually did, you became a guard to guard the farm, is that right?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, the day when I went to Ventersdorp and met Brigadier Van der Merwe to hear what his instructions were, I went back to my home and from there I left with the women to the game farm.

MR LANDMAN: And there you carried out guard duties?

JAN B DE WET: That is correct yes.

MR LANDMAN: And were you also not to protect the borders of the Volkstaat?

JAN B DE WET: No, the borders of the Volkstaat, there were other commando's in the area who did that.  My instruction there was that further instructions would be given to us.

MR LANDMAN: Mr De Wet, if I can just take you to something else.  The farm where you saw the gas cylinder bomb being built, was that Koesterfontein?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, that is correct.  That was the farm of Abraham Myburgh's father.

MR LANDMAN: So that bomb was built away from the main group of AWB supporters who were at the game farm at the time, is that correct?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, it was away from the group that stayed at the game farm.

MR LANDMAN: And only a very few people knew about that, the group of people who were on Koesterfontein?

JAN B DE WET: At that stage yes, I understood it that way.

MR LANDMAN: And we know that the Bree Street bomb was built there, at Koesterfontein, do you agree with that?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, it did come out.

MR LANDMAN: The bomb for Germiston where you were involved, that was also built there?

JAN B DE WET: Yes, it was also built at Koesterfontein.

MR LANDMAN: The Jan Smuts bomb, where was that built?

JAN B DE WET: Out of the court case I understood that it was at the shooting range in Rustenburg.

MR LANDMAN: Would you agree with me Mr De Wet, that those people who moved to Ventersdorp and then later moved to the game farm, they were what one can describe at the "bitter einders"?

JAN B DE WET: No, Mr Chairperson, there were other AWB members of the AWB Wenkommando from the Western Transvaal, who also gathered there.

MR LANDMAN: Where were they, on whose farm were they?

JAN B DE WET: Sir, just outside Brits on Mr Manie Maritz' farm there were also people, between Mooinooi and Brits, there was also a farm.  I do not know who the owner was, there were also people.  Near Koster, it is a holiday resort, there were also people there.
	On a farm near Ottosdal, I think it is Mr Koos Hough who was the owner of the farm, people were gathered there as well.  Also close to Klerksdorp people gathered.

MR LANDMAN: Mr De Wet, when did you for the first time think or realise that maybe some of these people at Koesterfontein were responsible for the Bree Street bomb?

JAN B DE WET: That evening, the Sunday evening when I arrived at Koesterfontein and I saw the gas bottle and explosives.

MR LANDMAN: How well did you know Cliffie Barnard?

JAN B DE WET: For the period when I was at Ventersdorp, worked there at the office, I knew him very well.

MR LANDMAN: Have you had braais and brandy and Coke together?

JAN B DE WET: No Mr Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: What did you call him when you saw him at the AWB Headquarters?

JAN B DE WET: I addressed him as Colonel.

MR LANDMAN: Did he object to that?

JAN B DE WET: No Mr Chairperson.

MR LANDMAN: He never said to you I don't want to be called by my rank?

JAN B DE WET: No Mr Chairperson, he never said that.

MR LANDMAN: Did other people also call him Colonel?

JAN B DE WET: Yes Mr Chairperson, Mr Terreblanche also called him that and Mr Prinsloo, and other people who also worked at Head Office.

MR LANDMAN: From time to time did ordinary members of the AWB come to the Headquarters and speak to Mr Barnard?

JAN B DE WET: Mr Chairperson, the people from the area, the Western Transvaal district also came to the office and also addressed him as Colonel.

MR LANDMAN: Isn't it strange that Mr Le Roux and Mr Fourie didn't know and never referred to Mr Barnard as Colonel?