Amnesty Hearings — Johannesburg — 1999-02-09

MR MOHLABA: Certainly, I have a copy of the letter Madame Chair, it was indeed faxed to our office of the 19th January but I was in Tzaneen.  However I think I should have arrived a day or two after it was faxed through, but the difficulty was to get hold of Mr Garane because our line of communication was through a lady called Patience in Shell House and I got in contact with her, I could only send her a message to get Mr Garane to contact me and that did not happen until the eve of the hearing Madame Chair, that's the reason there was no response to that letter.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you able to advance any good reason why you did not communicate your difficulties in trying to locate your client to the Amnesty Committee?

MR MOHLABA: I did not do it in writing, I however communicated telephonically expressing my difficulty with I believe it's Pumsa Tofile, I'm not certain whether I got him or I got somebody else but I had various communication with him or his office or somebody else in his office with regard to various matters and I indicated my difficulty and I did not do it in writing and had I been invited to do so I should have certainly done so, Madame Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: But having regard to the fact that the letter specifically drew your attention to the fact that unless the requested information was not furnished to the evidence leader's office who was identified in that letter as Ms Thabete, your client's application will not be capable of being proceeded with.  Why did you not try and communicate directly with Ms Thabete knowing that according to the letter from her office, the matter would not be disposed of unless certain information, the information was received before 8th February which was yesterday?

MR MOHLABA: Certainly Chair, it could have been an oversight on my part, I admit.  I received so many letters on the same letterhead and one just - I may have omitted to look at the author and decided instead to phone the person who I normally receive certain correspondence from as opposed to insisting on talking to Ms Thabete.

CHAIRPERSON: I find that a very difficult reason to comprehend.  This is a letter that is talking about a hearing that was to take place in a few weeks time.  It was not just a general correspondence, it sought to elicit information that would enable this hearing to proceed without any hitches and this Committee cannot afford to be saddled with unnecessary hitches which could have been avoided if counsel had attended to the queries raised by our office timeously.
	Ms Thabete, are you saying that this matter is not capable of being proceeded with because the information that you sought to obtain from Mr Mohlaba was not given to you timeously?

MS THABETE: That is correct Madame Chair and I would suggest that the matter be postponed until we are in a position to issue a public notice seeking for the victim's next of kin.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mohlaba, you have heard what Ms Thabete's view is with regard to the conduct of this application.  She feels that this matter cannot proceed because it is not ripe for a hearing because of your omission in failing to provide important particulars that were necessary to enable this matter to be properly conducted and prepared for this public hearing.  What is your response thereto?

MR MOHLABA: I accept the blame Madame Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you therefore amenable to the matter not proceeding today until such time as your office has furnished her with the requested particulars as contained in the letter of the 19th January 1999?

MR MOHLABA: Certainly Chair and it has also come to my attention that I've conversed it with Ms Thabete during the adjournment that we need to also find a supplementary affidavit with respect to the application.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we would greatly appreciate it if in matters such as these where the applications contain very scanty information that before we proceed with hearing any of those applications the legal representatives make every attempt to try and furnish us with a supplementary affidavit which will try and curtail the proceedings because this Committee has a very short lifespan and we really rely on the assistance of the legal representative in ensuring that the proceedings are as curtailed as possible.  We trust that you will come to our assistance in this regard in future.

MR MOHLABA: Certainly Chair, that is noted.

CHAIRPERSON: This matter is then postponed to a date to be arranged.

MS THABETE: Thank you Madame Chair, I don't know whether I can proceed to the next matter?

CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed Ms Thabete.

MS THABETE: We are in a position to hear the matter of Puseletso Julius Skhosana, but I understand she's not present today.  I'm not aware of the reasons except that I think according to Mr Mohlaba she had transport problems coming here so I'm not quite sure how we should deal with the matter from now onwards but regarding the matters of Maswim Mkukwana Mzuli ...[intervention]

CHAIRPERSON: Mkukwama.  Is it n or m?

MS THABETE: M for mother.  And the matter of Mosolesi Bigman Nhlakasa and that of Matembe Nglongo.  I'm going to also suggest that we postpone those matters because in the matter of Mkukwana we could not - we did not access to getting the court record.  As a result we did not know who the victims are unfortunately the applicant doesn't know who the victims are as well.  After receiving the information that we can't get hold of the court record we arranged that a notice be made, a public notice be made in the newspaper and on the radio, Radio Zulu and Leseti but it was not made timeously.  As a result we want to afford an opportunity for the victims to respond failing which we will set down the matter again to be heard in the near future.
	Regarding the matter of Mosolesi Bigman Nhlakasa we also had problems or our investigators also had problems tracing Joseph Mtunsi's next of kin, Joesph Mtunsi was killed in this incident.  As a result of the fact that they could not trace the next of kin of the victim we did a public advertisement on the paper and on the radio which appeared late, that's why Mashaia who gave the order is deceased.

CHAIRPERSON: What are you saying Ms Thabete, in short?

MS THABETE: In short as I've stated before I'm suggesting that these matters be postponed so that we can afford an opportunity for the victims to respond to the late advertisement on the paper.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it your submission that no proper investigations have been conducted in respect of these matters which were initially set down in October 1998 and were postponed then because they had not been investigated in October and they still stand uninvestigated properly in February 1999?

MS THABETE: Madame Chair that's not what I'm saying, the matters have been investigated but the victims cannot be traced and last year we did make an advertisement on the newspapers but it referred to last year's hearing.  We did make an advertisement calling on the victims to contact us, that was last year, so this was the second notice that we had done on the paper calling on the same victims to notify us.  So I believe that the investigators have investigated the matter but we are unable to trace the victims.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it your submission that your public notice was issued late?

MS THABETE: Yes Madame Chair, it's my submission that the second notice was issued late.

CHAIRPERSON: There is no second notice, it is a notice in respect of this particular hearing?

MS THABETE: Yes Madame Chair, it's my submission that it appeared late on the newspaper.

CHAIRPERSON: And when did it appear and in which newspaper?